# I could not be more thrilled!!



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Quincy has become a Daddy again! Six reds and one black!!! I was very concerned when bred to brown that her produced six browns and five blacks. I got lots of positive messages from other breeders saying he will produce what he is bred to, which is not particularly common apparently. So needless to say, I am a happy camper this morning.


----------



## schpeckie (Jun 29, 2010)

That is absolutely wonderful! Quincy is a beautiful boy! The puppies are adorable, Congratulations!


----------



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks so much Schpeckie. These are not my puppies, but they give me a good idea what we will get when we breed to Quincy. This litter is a Strathglen Poodles in Alberta, and the Mommy is Brandi- Betty and Jenny's full sister.


----------



## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

I love Quincy, if I didn't have my two I would looooooove to have that black puppy


----------



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

oohhh...it looks like you might have a couple apricots, too! My favs.  Congratulations. What's the sex breakdown of the darling babies? 

Color genetics are so interesting! Jazz sire was color tested as black:black, so he could only produce black even though Jazz' mama had a dark apricot (red?) Palmares sire. The puppies have either black:black or red:black. That's my understanding anyway. have you considered having Quincy color tested?


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> he will produce what he is bred to, which is not particularly common apparently. So needless to say, I am a happy camper this morning.


Congrats on the puppies!

When you say this, do you mean that he carries all of the colors? Have you had him color tested? Well, at this point, you already know he carries black, brown, and red. So the question is..does he carry white/cream?


----------



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Maybe Quincy will produce one of those rainbow litters like Bonnie came from- there was white, cream, light apricot, black, two tones of brown and a deep mahogany in 9 puppies in Bonnie's litter from two nonfading black parents! The breeder about fell over as I recall. LOL


----------



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Congrats on the puppies!
> 
> When you say this, do you mean that he carries all of the colors? Have you had him color tested? Well, at this point, you already know he carries black, brown, and red. So the question is..does he carry white/cream?


We will likely have him colour tested. But like you say, bot much we do not know about at this point. Once he ;produced brown, we just kind of held our breath. NOW we are delighted. Thanks for the congrats.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I had a total brain fart earlier when I said "the question is whether he carries for cream"! Doh. Clearly he carries all 3 colors. 

Since Quincy produced red, he carries the white/cream/apricot/red gene. 

Quincy is BbEe because he is Black who carries the cream gene (responsible for white/cream/apricot/red), the brown gene, and - obviously - the black gene.


----------



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I do not think the white gene is a given. Cream yes, but I am fairly sure the white gene is separate.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> I do not think the white gene is a given. Cream yes, but I am fairly sure the white gene is separate.


Cherie, the "cream" gene is the gene that is responsible for white/cream/apricot/red coat color. 

http://www.vetgen.com/chromagene-coat-color2.html

The "e" allelle is white/cream/apricot/red.

For example, Tiger is BBee. (He has been color tested.) The "BB" means he carries black, not brown. The "ee" means he carries either white, cream, apricot, or red. Clearly, we know he is white/cream end of the spectrum.

If an apricot dog were to have Tiger's same test results (BBee), the "ee" would represent the "apricot" color in that case. White/cream/apricot/red is a spectrum.

ETA: Since you know that Quincy carries the brown gene, you may want to consider color test bitches he is bred to to avoid having a brown gene lingering in your red line. Not that a brown gene is necessarily tragic in breeding, I can think of much worse, but personally I'd definitely use color testing to breed away from that gene in his offspring over time.


----------



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I do think brown should be kept separate from the creams/reds/apricots or you can get brown points on them. I don't think it's the end of the world to get a brown nosed cream or red on occasion as it can be pretty and for a pet it doesn't matter much. I understand Cherie being excited when this litter was all on the red spectrum with no brown puppies. Congrats again.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

If any of the red pups end up with brown points. They would be bbee. (genetically, because red is on the same spectrum as cream, this is the same as cream with brown). 

For the ones with black pigment, they will be either BBee (no brown gene) or Bbee (carrying brown gene). Ideally the keeper will be one of these BBee's!


----------



## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

Congrats on the litter. 

Whether a dog can produce puppies on the apricot spectrum (red, apricot, cream, and white) is determined by the E locus. The actual shade of the colour seems to be determined by more than one gene and none of these genes have yet been mapped, so there aren't any tests for them. Breeding dogs of two different shades together generally seems to result in pups in various different shades between those colours. My bitch is a light apricot that seems to be holding and came from a litter with a medium apricot father (blue mother and had faded to nearly white by the time he was two years old) and a white mother. The pups were born in two different shades -- light apricot and cream. Some of the other pups that have now grown up inherited the clearing gene from the father and have lost their original colour.

TBH, there's not that much more information you would get from colour testing him. You already know he's EeBb from observing the results in breeding him. He's presumably definitely black and not blue, in which case he must be vv (there's no test for this, but it follows a predictable inheritance pattern). There's a small chance he might carry the gene for agouti patterns (ky) if any of his ancestors go back to the Palmares/Shangri-La red breeding.


----------



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Two newer pictures taken yesterday...


----------



## pgr8dnlvr (Aug 7, 2011)

Off topic, but OMG! I see long tails!! Will they keep them?!? Congrats 

Rebecca


----------

