# Grain or Grain Free?



## Caniche (Jun 10, 2013)

Ryker is on Fromm Small Breed - it's not grain free and I personally feel like his coat is a bit dull and he never acts hungry (he's very picky - this morning he turned down fresh scrambled eggs!)

I've never done a grain-free diet before, but I just ordered some Acana and Now Fresh to try it. I have heard that people who switch to a higher protein level food (which is usually grain free) experience looser stools in the beginning. How long has she been on the grain-free diet and how long has she had looser stools?

Another suggestion would be that before you take her off grain free, maybe add something to her food? Canned pumpkin (not the pie filling), low fat cottage cheese or low fat plain yogurt all help firm up stool. 

Also, new environments and stress can lead to loose stools - so if you've noticed it more recently maybe there is a new stressor going on?

Cash, my puppy, will sometimes get diarrhea/loose stool for no reason. I just give his stomach a break from kibble by boiling some hamburger, adding some brown rice, a veggie and a dash of pumpkin and feed that for 48 hours. It helps "reset" any stomach issues in my opinion. 




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## Lily's-Mom (May 31, 2012)

When we first adopted her (May 2012) she has soft stool, and on and off since then. She has been on the grain free kibble for almost a year I think. I started giving her Wellness Core then moved over to Fromm probably 7 or 8 months ago (not certain about time frame, but it's certainly not new food for her). Two weeks ago she was having a problem with loose stool and blood in it. Vet had her on flagyl for 5 days and I gave her the boiled ground beef with rice and seemed cleared up, but then she was boarded (but I supplied her own kibble so I thought she would have been ok). I guess that was stressful for her which is why I am not totally freaking out. I have been giving her both pumpkin and a bit of plain yogurt. Was just thinking that overall maybe feeding her kibble with grain would firm things up.


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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

Lily's-Mom said:


> When we first adopted her (May 2012) she has soft stool, and on and off since then. She has been on the grain free kibble for almost a year I think. I started giving her Wellness Core then moved over to Fromm probably 7 or 8 months ago (not certain about time frame, but it's certainly not new food for her). Two weeks ago she was having a problem with loose stool and blood in it. Vet had her on flagyl for 5 days and I gave her the boiled ground beef with rice and seemed cleared up, but then she was boarded (but I supplied her own kibble so I thought she would have been ok). I guess that was stressful for her which is why I am not totally freaking out. I have been giving her both pumpkin and a bit of plain yogurt. Was just thinking that overall maybe feeding her kibble with grain would firm things up.


Grains aren't easy on a dog's digestive system so I don't see how it would firm up the stool. I would try a higher protein grain free limited ingredient food. Less ingredients= less chance for stomach upset in my opinion.


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

The only grain my 4 (different breeds) do well on is rice. Barley, wheat, corn = gas, foul stool, itching, ear infections. 

I really am happy with Fromm 4-star grain frees, and another food called PetGuard Lifespan (chicken/rice). NOT happy at all with Now! grain free small breed. Not sure I will be able to feed it to anyone of my dogs. It was intended for Jack (mini poodle) but he has bloody diarrhea on it (fixed overnight with Fromm). The fat is 20% which makes me worry about pancreatitis in my bichon, it's too high for my pudgy chihuahua and PWD as well. 

HTH. Kindof rambly


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I have found with Sunny that when feeding a raw diet his stools are VERY hard (which is expected); when on grain free kibble sometimes yes, sometimes no. With Honest Kitchen type food (dehydrated with vegetables and fruit as well as protein) his stools are in larger quantity. But, I also notice when he is "foraging" in the fields where the geese and/or rabbits frequent (yuk) his stool is loose, too.

Sunny does well on Acana Regionals (all are grain free) and I picked up the Pacifica today (fish). I have been trying to find a lower calorie (250 - 350 kcal per 250 ml cup) instead of (421 kcal per 250 ml cup) his current food. I also want to stay away from chicken and grains and he has to like it. Talk about difficult!!!

I received a sample of Born Free, grain free salmon kibble. Sunny really liked it --- and the kibble is very small so for the small poodle owners you may want to check it out; however it is not really lower in calories/fat. He is only 5 but was neutered when I got him and his activity level is slower than before, so prefer to cut down on calories rather than the quantity.

Good luck.......there are so many dog food choices these days -- from kibble, canned, dehydrated and raw.


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## PoodlePaws (May 28, 2013)

My two toys are on grain free. If they eat grain, they get loose stool. With Grain-free their stool is very firm. They also eat grain free treats. I buy them soft ones and crunchy ones. 


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## Lily's-Mom (May 31, 2012)

OK so I guess I was totally wrong. I thought that grains would firm up her stool. but from what you all are saying it's just the opposite. I'll stick with Fromm Grain Free. Thanks to all


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

One more comment about the kibble with grain--our Lab had occasional ear infections all his life, some of them quite resistant to treatment, until our vet suggested changing him to a grain-free food. We made the switch to TOTW about a year ago, and that solved the problem. He hasn't had an infection since. Now both dogs are on a raw diet, which never includes grains, and they continue to do well.


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## Specman (Jun 14, 2012)

Fromm grain free here. Both of my dogs seem to do well on it.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I feed Raw and Wellness Core Grain Free and both of my girls are doing great.


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## Lily's-Mom (May 31, 2012)

JudyD said:


> One more comment about the kibble with grain--our Lab had occasional ear infections all his life, some of them quite resistant to treatment, until our vet suggested changing him to a grain-free food. We made the switch to TOTW about a year ago, and that solved the problem. He hasn't had an infection since. Now both dogs are on a raw diet, which never includes grains, and they continue to do well.


Years ago we had a Pekingese/Poodle mix and he often had "gunk" in his ears and ear infections. Well looking back at it, I suppose it was allergies from the food we fed him. I don't recall exactly what we fed him (probably Iams) but at the time, I thought it was quite good quality.


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

Lily's-Mom said:


> Years ago we had a Pekingese/Poodle mix and he often had "gunk" in his ears and ear infections. Well looking back at it, I suppose it was allergies from the food we fed him. I don't recall exactly what we fed him (probably Iams) but at the time, I thought it was quite good quality.


We had Luke on Iams for a long time, then on Purina Large Breed, Beneful, and Purina One. We thought we were feeding him the best... Live and learn. Lucky for Jazz we've learned in time to feed her properly.


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## Desiree (Feb 14, 2010)

I've been feeding acana grain free for years. I have found that any fish based dog food fed for more than 2 days will result in loose soft stools in my dogs. So I always rotate protein sources daily. Fish one day, lamb/ bison next, maybe turkey or rabbit the third day, then start over. I've just switched from acana to nature's variety raw boost foods with no digestive problems at all. Good Luck


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## Lily's-Mom (May 31, 2012)

Lily seems to do well on the fish based food. She doesn't do well with chicken. In reading ingredients on many dog food bags, I have learned that many have chicken in them, even if it is called "beef".


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Actually, the latest scientific studies conclude that dogs are perfectly adapted through a convergent evolution with humans to digest grains just fine. 

DNA study hints availability of grains key to evolution of wolves to dogs | Nation & World | The Seattle Times

My feelings are they don't need grain but it isn't the evil ingredient that a lot of people suggest.

Firm stool, loose stool you talk about. There's a 3rd type of stool. It's bulky stool.  That, (bulky) to me is a good kind to have. Not too hard, not too soft, but _large_ and medium firm. It may take some grain to achieve that in some dogs. That helps express the anal glands and is the healthiest kind. So, whatever food works best for your dog as long as there's plenty of protein, vitamins and essential trace minerals, I think that is all good.


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

Lily's-Mom said:


> OK so I guess I was totally wrong. I thought that grains would firm up her stool. but from what you all are saying it's just the opposite. I'll stick with Fromm Grain Free. Thanks to all


ALso, it may be as simple as you are overfeeding her. If the poo starts off firm and then goes squishy, then that's overfeeding. 

Good luck


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## Lily's-Mom (May 31, 2012)

Yeah, sometimes it is like that. Thanks for that info.


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## Lily's-Mom (May 31, 2012)

*Sensitive tummy?*

Update on Lily's food...
I purchased a different "flavor" of the same grain free Fromm kibble and it gave Lily "toxic" (my husband's description) poo. Only gave her a small handful mixed into her normal salmon tunalini flavor. Fed her that for about 3 days, but it is going back and I will stick to the salmon tunalini. I think it's pretty funny that a dog that was a stray, and when she first came to us she killed and tried to eat a mouse, has such a sensitive tummy, LOL!


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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

Lily's-Mom said:


> Update on Lily's food...
> I purchased a different "flavor" of the same grain free Fromm kibble and it gave Lily "toxic" (my husband's description) poo. Only gave her a small handful mixed into her normal salmon tunalini flavor. Fed her that for about 3 days, but it is going back and I will stick to the salmon tunalini. I think it's pretty funny that a dog that was a stray, and when she first came to us she killed and tried to eat a mouse, has such a sensitive tummy, LOL!


Funny thing is that a mouse would likely be easier to digest for her than any kibble. No fillers there haha. Some people on a group I am on do feed the "pinky" mice, not me though...


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## Lily's-Mom (May 31, 2012)

Jamie Hein said:


> Funny thing is that a mouse would likely be easier to digest for her than any kibble. No fillers there haha. Some people on a group I am on do feed the "pinky" mice, not me though...


Perhaps easier to digest, but EEWWWWWW! No thanks :afraid:


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

I agree, ewwwww! I raise feeder mice for snakes and lizards but I don't think I could feed them to my poodles. Ick! 


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I feed raw but mice are definitely not on the menu.


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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

I wouldn't do it just because of the potential mess and I think mice are pretty cute, but some people do whole prey. I do prey model.


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

On the toxic poo, give it a little time. When I got my chihuahua I've a year ago she spent a couple weeks with gas and smelly poo. It has pre and probiotics that eventually helped her tummy digest well and now we have nice ordinary poos here. ?


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## powertothepoodle (Sep 7, 2013)

I know there is a good fish based dog food called fish4dogs it is totally grain free and James seems to like it (now he is on a raw diet).


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