# Bad Groomer



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Wow. I would be livid, too! I am glad you found Stephanie again! If I saw that groomer, she'd have every blood vessel in her eye popped, too. We take out dogs to groomers and expect them to be kind and sweet to our dogs. When they aren't it is a violation of our trust. One bad groomer can give all groomers a bad name. 

I am so happy to have my groomer for my poodle. I only wish she knew how to cut poodles!!!!! I choose to continue with her because she is so kind and gentle with my sweet poodle. My poodle loves going to her, starts whining with excitement when I get there. She jumps on the dividing wall, tail going wildly looking for her groomer. She makes a little yip when she sees her, demanding that she come over to greet her. Her groomer smoozles all over her saying hello and Bonnie eats it up. Because of those things, I stick with her even though she isn't great with the poodle trims. Those things are worth it to me. I am so afraid of taking my poodle somewhere else because I know what a production line a lot of these places are. 

I am so sorry about your girl. It has to be really bad for a dog to poop and pee on themselves. Luckily, you found your kind groomer. Please remember that dogs live in the moment. People have long memories, but dogs don't.


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## Megan (May 1, 2011)

I'm glad that I found Stephanie again too. She's a better groomer and I also know that she would never hurt Diamond. She loves Diamond, and is always commenting on how beautiful she is. I think if I let her, she would take Diamond home with her. Like you, I have also looked for a poodle groomer, but after hearing about what Ashley did, I'm just going to stick with who I know and trust. I bet that Stephanie could groom Diamond in a decent show cut if she had enough practice at it. She's better than I would be! But I do want to learn how to groom Diamond myself, I need to go buy a good pair of scissors and take the plunge.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I'm so sorry you and Diamond had to go through that  What that groomer did is unacceptable. I find groomers get like that when they feel burnout, stressed and rushed. I'm not condoning the abusive behavior, just pointing out that these overwhelming factors cloud a groomer's judgement. Sadly they dont realize that they need to step back and re-evaluate things. Thank goodness you found the other groomer. I have seen far worse in other shops that owners would be appalled to know. 

I don't want other people to think ALL groomers are like this, because we are not! It makes me happy to hear that outwest is sticking with her groomer because she sees how happy her dog is. I had a client who was furious because she accused me if cutting an eyelash, when I let her dog play, have access to water, views out the window, and lots of potty time. There are dogs who get nervous and no matter how gentle you are, they will eliminate on the table, but to purposefully stress a dog to that point is abusive. Also, sometimes groomers rig dogs to the grooming arm in a way that LOOKS abusive (Groomer's Helper), but it is not. It is to keep the dog and groomer safe. It's not safe when a dog tries to bite the groomer, or when the dog moves too much in the presence of sharp objects. Rigging for safety (where you monitor the dog's behavior, tongue color, eye shape) is different than putting the loop high enough to strangle the dog.


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## Megan (May 1, 2011)

I don't think that all groomers are bad. In fact, I had thought that bad groomers were so far and few between that I would never run across one. I agree that keeping the dog and groomer both safe should be the number one priority, but from what Stephanie told me, Ashley was being plain abusive. I don't know what Diamond is like at the grooming shop, but at home she is the most docile, innocent, and sweet dog I have ever met. She doesn't enjoy being brushed and groomed, but she absolutely does NOT try to bite or even raise a lip. She just tries to walk away. I can't imagine that she would turn into a snarling demon dog at the shop that would in any way give the groomer the need to restrain her, much less abuse her. If Stephanie were to move away, I would be very leery of taking Diamond to another groomer.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

Alex went to a groomer for the first 9 months of his life and then I learned to groom him myself. I was fortunate in that I got to watch a competitive poodle groomer work her magic for those 9 months! So why did I decide to do it myself? I had some issues with the owner of the grooming shop and also with some of the staff, primarily those involved in bathing and drying. I find that doing it myself is not only enjoyable, but much less stressful on the poods. Hair grows so I don't sweat the mistakes and I know the poodles are very forgiving. 

Grooming is challenging and I'm still learning, but doing it myself means I get to experiment with different trims and it's a great time to thoroughly inspect your poodle for changes in their skin, coat, etc. (My ten year old Alex seems to have a new 'wart' every month that I mark for the vet to check.) You don't need a lot of equipment to start out but I recommend buying the best you can afford, especially when choosing clippers and shears. You'll be glad you spent the extra $$$ later (trust me, I went cheap at first and it's all gathering dust).


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

Wow, I'm really sorry you had to go through that. Ugh, some groomers make me so angry! There was a groomer at my first job that was like that....a couple, actually. One would yank the grooming arm up so high the dog's choked, and when they struggled he'd hold them so tight they screamed. If they ran away from him, he'd grab an ear and drag them back. The other groomer didn't do that stuff, but she'd stick a comb behind mats and then yank them out that way. Youch!! The poor dogs would scream and thrash and bite. It was horrible to watch. The rest of us tried and tried to alert management about those two, but they never listened until one day the male groomer threatened to kill another groomer (verbal only, still scary though) and cussed out the manager. So they fired him...the other girl finally just quit. Those are the only two abusive groomers I've come into contact with, thankfully. Most of us ARE kind and caring, we want only what's best for the dogs and clients.  

I'm really glad you found your other groomer, and I wouldn't worry about Diamond being permanently scarred or anything. If that stuff only happened once, she probably forgot about it fairly quickly. Dogs are very forgiving, thank goodness!


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

*mom24doggies*

It's hard to believe the manager didn't know how abusive the groomers were because he never noticed and didn't believe the rest of you. Odd way to run a business.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

Well, it was Petsmart, (I'm sure you know that most of us who have worked for them weren't terribly impressed.) and the manager was good friends with one of the groomers. The other just manipulated and cried her way out of stuff.  So yeah, definitely not a good manager!


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry and just plain MAD! I've always been present when mine have been groomed. I have not known any one personally who has had an incident with a groomer but for some reason I just won't let mine go without me. I know most groomers are good and would never hurt a dog. I'ts just that our pets are totally helpless and powerless AND can never talk. :-(. I do 90% of my grooming myself. I have used 3 groomers in my life and have been lucky enough to have convinced them all to let me be present. I was the same way with my human babies who could not fend for themselves. I was fortunate enough to be at home until school age. People are basically good but when they are not it can be bad when combined with a vulnerable creature . . .sad but true.


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## partial2poodles (Feb 11, 2010)

I am in the process of preparing my poodle for the show ring so i am a little tough on her. But i took her to a different groomer and left her there for about 5 hours. I felt that same nervous feeling i imagine my clients feel when leaving their baby for the 1st time. I was also told that the groomer will put her in line for the show ring. (I didnt know if that meant she'd be rough, mean or WHAT!) Anyway, she was fine....and I worried for nothing. In fact she is eve.n BETTER for me (she lays flat for drying)....so being firm is one thing, but being cruel is inexcusable


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## grab (Jun 1, 2010)

If Stephanie was not working at the shop at the time Ashley groomed your dog, how would she know how Ashley treated her? Or was this at a previous grooming? There's no excuse for abusiveness when grooming dogs. I'd be suspicious of something stated by a former coworker though. But, I'm mildly skeptical by nature

ETA that I can sympathize with finding a new groomer..we had a groomer we loved for Newt and then she moved out of state. Sad


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## jeffrow (Jul 19, 2010)

Our groomer usually just does a short cut and medium top and ears. We send the "Pad" in every 5 or 6 weeks or so. While we have the equipment to do him, it is a tough job and takes us hours whenever we try. He squirms like crazy and forget about shaving his face. We end up scissoring him mostly. Our groomer charges us what I consider an outrageous amount, $55. I always give her $75 or 80 and tell her she needs to charge more.


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## Megan (May 1, 2011)

grab said:


> If Stephanie was not working at the shop at the time Ashley groomed your dog, how would she know how Ashley treated her? Or was this at a previous grooming? There's no excuse for abusiveness when grooming dogs. I'd be suspicious of something stated by a former coworker though. But, I'm mildly skeptical by nature
> 
> ETA that I can sympathize with finding a new groomer..we had a groomer we loved for Newt and then she moved out of state. Sad


Because she still talked to the other groomers in the shop. She probably wanted to know when Ashley would finally get fired. I think she also asked if I had been in with Diamond at all, because she told me that she was getting ready to track me down and warn me to never go back to that grooming shop. I am also worried that my groomer will decide to move out of state one day, which is why I feel the need to start grooming Diamond myself like so many others on this forum. For now though, I believe that Stephanie is a good groomer for Diamond. The first thing she said when I picked her up yesterday was "I LOVE her." She also asked if I was going to breed her, probably because she would want one of her puppies...she seemed quite disappointed when I said no haha


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## Tonjad (Mar 12, 2012)

*Thats awful!*

I was thinking about taking mine to petsmart ! I stopped by the grooming place the other day and I liked that you could watch thru the glass --she said it was only $15.99 for puppy under 6 mons. She said they just do wash,comb out, and trimm face,feet,and hygenic areas and clean ears. Do you think I should try them?


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## Megan (May 1, 2011)

I personally wouldn't trust Petsmart to groom my dog. I only take Diamond there to get a FFT done since I don't have my own clippers yet. Sure you CAN stay and watch your dog, but what are the chances that you actually WILL? And 16 bucks for a poodle haircut, even a puppy, is unheard of and sounds suspicious to me.


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## katbrat (May 8, 2011)

Poor Diamond. I am glad you were able to track down the groomer who was so good with her. When Lexi was a baby, Icalled Petco to get a price on FFT and a bath. She was fourteen weeks old. They asked what kind of dog she was and I said standard poodle puppy. The told me it would be $75. I told them she was about twelve pounds and fourteen weeks old, were they sure that was correct and could she please check with someone else. She came back on the phone and told me "yep, standard poodles are $75." I again told her how big she was and she was a baby. She then asked if I wanted to book an appointment. Nope, I don't think so. Found a groomer who when we pull up out front, Lexi is very excited to be there,they love her and she looks fabulous when I pick her up.


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## grab (Jun 1, 2010)

I think it's an individual groomer thing, vs making a blanket statement across every groomer who works at a chain store. There are some great groomers who happen to work at Petcos and Petsmarts. You just have to do research..but I'd do that with ANY groomer. Newt's former groomer worked at Petco and she was fabulous. We ran across her by chance..we were shopping at the store at the very end of the day when her Standard Poodle flew by in a Continental trim, all banded up. We figured if she could put a Standard in a decent continental, she could groom our toy Poodle.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

That is very scary. Thank goodness your dog did not suffer a physical injury along with the mental trauma. I think it is wise to check out any groomer and if possible get reccomendations from others. I picked my groomer when I saw her grooming at a big dog show. Her dogs were very relaxed on the table and the cuts were great. Swizzle is nervous when he goes to the groomer but he gets nervous when I give him a bath and blow dry him too. If you can take on the grooming at some point that is great but in the event your current groomer is no longer available there are good groomers out there just pick very carefully.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

I'm not defending abusive action and I have no knowledge of the people in the story.

There are dogs that are sweet friendly "never would hurt anyone" and they come back into the grooming room and are transformed into little balls of teeth. Yup, they take A LOT of restraint to get the job done safely.

I have noosed a dog up so high it's on tiptoes, but only for a short time and only for my safety. A few seconds of discomfort can take the place of hours of uncomfortable muzzling. I felt it was kinder. NOW, I use overhead arm and a second restraint so the dog can't whip it's head around and bite me. I haven't had to put a tight grooming leash on a dog since getting my new restraint system.

My "measuring tape" is the dog's behavior over a period of grooms. I occassionally get a dog in that needs LOTS of restraint and muzzling. By 3 grooms later, they don't need the restraint and are so much more relaxed.

My point in this post is that you can't judge a groomer by (most) single actions. Sometimes the groomer is weighing the options to do the best thing for the dog. (And sometimes the person is unethical and abusive).

For the record - I usually don't use any restraint at all. My regular dogs hang out on the table and we have a good morning together.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Tortoise -- I find most of your posts irresponsible and honestly, think you enjoy the shock value of what you say. I, for one, would probably go out of my way to try to put you out of business if I heard you did any of the things you post on this forum either to my dog in a grooming situation, or training situation. And, for your wisecrack comment of sending Sunny to you -- sorry, just reading your posts makes me worry for your well-being in so many ways. This is my humble, honest opinion and Plumcrazy can take this post down if she wants, but the forum was, in the beginning, a great place for me to find comfort in others challenges, especially when I adopted Sunny. I will say I am glad you were not posting when I first started using the forum, or I probably would have left the forum if it was representative of the kinds of suggestions I would find here. As it was, I received kind, supportive and encouraging words --- the kind of stuff you are not capable of. If I have ever offended any members of this forum, I sincerely apologize, since I never meant to --- with one exception. I do hope, however, that you read your posts before your post them --- since what you project and perhaps what you mean may be very far apart.


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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

I think grooming is a very individual thing, and you can't slam all Petsmarts/Petco's like that. I don't take Potsie to Petsmart b/c they didn't do a good job on him. However, they did a great job on my late lab (bath/nails/furminator treatment), and they did a great job on my daughter's yorkie-poo. Each groomer has his/her strengths.

When I went to another groomer (a competition groomer), she refused to clip/shave Potsie as short as I'd like during the summer, b/c she didn't like the look. It's my money...

When I went to the third groomer, I liked everything except the job she did on Potsie's feet - they were still a bit fuzzy. He's HORRIBLE about his feet, so I can't really blame the groomer.

As a consequence, I now groom him myself, but I sometimes take him to the third groomer to get the lines back on track that I've ruined - lol! 

I have a lot of admiration for groomers! It's tough to get the right look on the dog that makes the cliet happy and be able to do it fast enough to ensure you make enough money each day - hats off to you folks!


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

liljaker said:


> Tortoise -- I find most of your posts irresponsible and honestly, think you enjoy the shock value of what you say. I, for one, would probably go out of my way to try to put you out of business if I heard you did any of the things you post on this forum either to my dog in a grooming situation, or training situation. And, for your wisecrack comment of sending Sunny to you -- sorry, just reading your posts makes me worry for your well-being in so many ways. This is my humble, honest opinion and Plumcrazy can take this post down if she wants, but the forum was, in the beginning, a great place for me to find comfort in others challenges, especially when I adopted Sunny. I will say I am glad you were not posting when I first started using the forum, or I probably would have left the forum if it was representative of the kinds of suggestions I would find here. As it was, I received kind, supportive and encouraging words --- the kind of stuff you are not capable of. If I have ever offended any members of this forum, I sincerely apologize, since I never meant to --- with one exception. I do hope, however, that you read your posts before your post them --- since what you project and perhaps what you mean may be very far apart.


You can be as shocked as your little heart desires to be. That's your choice of how to respond. I am not a person to hand-hold or coddle. I will always speak out for the dog's best interest, regardless of what the owner feels about it. I will always present opposing points of view; it makes us stronger people - you can learn about the other side and decide whether there are parts you agree with or whether you more fervently believe what you think is correct. Your point of view is shaped by your experiences. A groomer with great clientelle will never have to deal with these situations, and that will shape their point of view. A pet owner that doesn't understand what grooming entails and doesn't undersand what will happen (at their particular groomer) with an uncooperative dog might be in for a nasty surprise.

I tried to explain how grooming is not the fluffy fun business people perceive it to be. We're talking about sharp metal blades moving over 3,000 strokes per minute, 1/10 of millimeter away from the dogs skin. Bad things can and do happen to good groomers.  Bad things are more often to happen to dogs in horrible condition - it hardly applies to people here who CARE to maintain their dogs' coat.

I am not a groomer who turns a dog away because it is too big, too nervous, too aggressive, or with too bad of coat maintenance.  I get all the dogs that nobody else will groom (because I work at a vet clinic). I have never groomed a sedated dog. Ever. Have you ever seen the stress level of a fractious animal getting "knocked out" with anesthetic? It is not pretty. I can use a little more restraint temporarily, do training while I work, and within 2 or 3 grooms, the dog is calmly (or cheerfully!) accepting grooming.

Working with these needy dogs instead of sedating gives the dog an opportunity to have a better experience. Without the additional cost of sedating - sometimes over $100! - the dog is more likely to get groomed on schedule. Owners LOVE to hear their pets are doing better and beginning to enjoy grooming. 

Appropriate restraint is important But also knowing when to NOT restrain is important! But there are some dogs that need more restraint. It is not cruel. It doesn't harm an animal. There is nothing more cruel about a leash than a muzzle. Both can be used badly. A poorly fit muzzle can nearly suffocate a dog, and wearing them for too long or while too stressed can cause hyperthermia. A leash can cause a rash, or difficulty breathing. Either a leash/restraint or muzzle can be used cruelly. I believe sedation can be used cruelly.

*The whole issue can be resolved easily*. Find out what your dog's naughty grooming behavior is. Spinning on the grooming table, not standing up, shaking head, any aggressive moments. Not tolerating clipping on the face, jerking feet... When you know what your dog does, then ask the groomer "How do you work with a dog that won't stand up?" You'll quickly know if this is the right groomer for you. Another option is to have the entire groom videotaped.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Tonjad said:


> I was thinking about taking mine to petsmart ! I stopped by the grooming place the other day and I liked that you could watch thru the glass --she said it was only $15.99 for puppy under 6 mons. She said they just do wash,comb out, and trimm face,feet,and hygenic areas and clean ears. Do you think I should try them?


Why not? You never know what quality of groomer the store has unless you try it.. Plus you can watch the groomers groom.. just make sure you hide from your dog if you decide to watch him getting groomed. Why because they CAN see you and will get excited and pose a risk to themselves when they start moving around while the groomer is trying to groom them. Best to watch the groomers groom other people's dogs.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Megan said:


> I personally wouldn't trust Petsmart to groom my dog. I only take Diamond there to get a FFT done since I don't have my own clippers yet. Sure you CAN stay and watch your dog, but what are the chances that you actually WILL? And 16 bucks for a poodle haircut, even a puppy, is unheard of and sounds suspicious to me.


Petsmart and Petco trains their own groomers after they have been bathers for a specific time and after bathing a certain number of dogs.. They go to school to train for a certain number of weeks and are sent back to their stores to groom a certain number of dogs, breeds, and styles... before being considered certified. You also have good groomers with exceptional skills that work for these stores for various reasons.. So often times you will have a variety of skill levels, strengths and weaknesses. Where you go is totally up to you, but to condemn these groomers when others show interest in going to them is not right. Let them go, they may be happy, they may not be. But one thing for sure is you CAN watch, if you choose to, whether you do or not is on you.

And the puppy trim at Petsmart is 15.99 for ALL dogs regardless of breed or size ages of 2-5months. Why is it soo cheap? Because it is to encourage ths pet owner to frequently bring their dog in so the poor thing can get used to the grooming since most pet owners will not work with their dogs... Some pet owners wait a ridiculous amount of time to bring in a dog for its first groom, altho some will take it in stride most cases the poor dog is terrified of being groomed and is very stressfull.. Some will never get used to it and will need sedation to be groomed as such dogs are refused to be groomed at reg shops as they pose too great a risk to themselves and to the groomers.

I should add that the puppy trim is Nail trim, glands, ear plucking/cleaning, bath, brush(if pup is not matted), pads and trimming feets, sanitary and over/under the eyes. Some will shave poodle faces and some will just trim around the eyes, and some will fashion somewhat of a topknot. If more is needed the price jumps up to adult price. It is not to be suspicious of it is supposed to help puppies get used to grooming so it wont be as stressful when they get older. Most of the time puppies get used to the pup groom after the 2nd or 3rd time.. Altho it is rec to take advantage of the price since the price will at minimum triple when the pups are adults... and practice makes perfect for them.


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## rikkia (Nov 5, 2011)

tortoise said:


> A pet owner that doesn't understand what grooming entails and doesn't undersand what will happen (at their particular groomer) with an uncooperative dog might be in for a nasty surprise.


I highly doubt that is the case here, I doubt that this logic applies on a board full of poodle owners who are all in the most fully clued up on the ins and outs of what grooming entails. If this was a board for poodle x's I could understand the above quote as the majority of them IME are ignorant of their dogs individual needs.



tortoise said:


> I tried to explain how grooming is not the fluffy fun business people perceive it to be. We're talking about sharp metal blades moving over 3,000 strokes per minute, 1/10 of millimeter away from the dogs skin. Bad things can and do happen to good groomers.  Bad things are more often to happen to dogs in horrible condition - it hardly applies to people here who CARE to maintain their dogs' coat.


If it hardly applies to people who care, why bring it up? It is quite obvious to me at least that in this instance the owner cares. If not why else would a post be made on a public forum decrying a vile person professing to be a groomer.



tortoise said:


> I am not a groomer who turns a dog away because it is too big, too nervous, too aggressive, or with too bad of coat maintenance.  I get all the dogs that nobody else will groom (because I work at a vet clinic).


So do you choose to groom these dogs or are you told to? You can not sit there and say you take everything in by choice if it is essentially because you work at a vets and have no choice.



tortoise said:


> I have never groomed a sedated dog. Ever.


 Good for you, if only you can say the same for other questionable practices. Also who mentioned that sedation was required, as far as I can tell no one brought this up apart from you which makes it an entirely moot point and not worthy of further quotation.



tortoise said:


> knowing when to NOT restrain is important!


 Finally! something we can agree on! 



tortoise said:


> A poorly fit muzzle can nearly suffocate a dog, and wearing them for too long or while too stressed can cause hyperthermia. A leash can cause a rash, or difficulty breathing. Either a leash/restraint or muzzle can be used cruelly. I believe sedation can be used cruelly.


Yet you believe electro'therapy' on a puppy is fine? your views and thoughts on cruelty are IMO warped. The less said about your thoughts on such issues I believe the better.



tortoise said:


> *The whole issue can be resolved easily*.


There are many ways to resolve bad grooms, in this case I highly doubt that the suggestions you offer apply to the OP nor many people on these boards. The person who did the groom in the OP was a vile excuse for a human and should be banned from working with animals.

To the OP I would be looking to ensure this vile critter is unemployable in any grooming business locally. I would be stood outside any shop this person worked at warning off customers who go to the shop with my horror story. I would ensure that all local groomers were fully aware of this persons nature and how they treat dogs left in her charge.

I am glad Alison has never clipped Poppy because she would rue the day she ever encountered my dog & I would have no qualms about becoming a one man anti Alison army.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

*Rikkia*: 
I just wanted to "second" your post. You summed up my thoughts and saved me the trouble of formulating a lengthy response. 



> Posted by *Tortoise*:
> You can be as shocked as your little heart desires to be. That's your choice of how to respond. I am not a person to hand-hold or coddle. *I will always speak out for the dog's best interest, regardless of what the owner feels about it. I will always present opposing points of view; it makes us stronger people - you can learn about the other side and decide whether there are parts you agree with or whether you more fervently believe what you think is correct. Your point of view is shaped by your experiences*.


*BF mine*.
Perhaps if you learned how to engage in _civil_ debate other members would be willing to consider your viewpoint. As it stands, you are sarcastic, rude, flippant, arrogant (etc.) and appear to formulate your posts for pure shock value. Also, _you're_ often guilty of not considering other points of view because in your arrogance you apparently think your way is the _correct_ and only way. Yes, we are all shaped by our experiences and we hopefully learn from them. I predict many of us have experienced a lot more in life than you at 27 years of age.

I found it incredibly ironic that you started a thread entitled "Play Nice"--a thread which resulted in very few responses. Might I suggest you use this as a learning experience? You claim to be a professional in a number of fields. Consider acting like one because if you conduct yourself in real life as you conduct yourself on this forum, I wouldn't entrust you with one of my shirts much less my dog. I'm being brutally honest because I find your posts alarming and your behaviour inexcusable. 

I'll end this with one final thought. This forum, like all others, has a diverse membership. Yes, we're all united in our love of the poodle breed but that doesn't mean we all share the same background or hold like beliefs. Disagreeing is perfectly acceptable and even expected, but there's a way to do so politely and constructively. It's really a shame when one or two members ruin the forum for the rest of us, and we risk losing valued members because of it.


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

Tortoise - I don't have a problem with opposing or even controversial opinions and posts, and I consider myself very open-minded. However, I was floored by your sentence containing the word "noosed." I WOULD NOT WANT MY DOG "NOOSED" FOR EVEN ONE SECOND! I understand full well a dog can be an angel at home and a hellion at the groomer's, but to deliberately hang a dog so high that it comes close to choking??? My very kind vet uses a muzzle if the dog presents a biting danger, she doesn't simulate hanging it!


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I took my little shih tuz's to two differant groomers at PetSmart for years. They were very kind and loving with my dogs, however Petsmart is so busy and has so much going on that they always hated to go. I found another groomer who works with only one other woman in her home and they never hated to go there. She let them run around when they were finished, it was more like home ect. This woman was a friend of a trusted friend, and that made it much easier to trust . I did like the window at PetSmart!


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## Poodlelvr (Mar 13, 2010)

Poodles have been a part of my life since the 1960's. Much of the time I have done my own grooming. I have never "noosed" a squirmy puppy. The grooming process is frightening for them. They need patience and reassurance. They shouldn't be tortured into submission. If Tortoise's regulars are well behaved it's becaused they are scared of her. This is nothing to be proud of.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

Tortoise, your advice scares me. :scared: I'm fine with someone "presenting another point of view" or whatever, but when that "other point of view" is dangerous, I have a problem with it. Another thing I have an problem with is a person who presents his/herself as the rational, reasonable one who is going to enlighten everyone and that everyone should bow to. Again, I don't mind having someone challenge my opinion, but they better be civil and humble! And to be honest, you come off as extremely arrogant. The quote Rowan provided is a fine example of what I'm talking about. It is NOT your place to teach or strengthen us! 

On a slightly different note, I just want to say that yes, many times us groomers must restrain dogs, sometimes quite firmly and in a manner that might seem cruel or harsh to those looking on. However, the dog should not choke (unless they are doing it themselves, you would not believe the number of dogs that strain at their leads and grooming loops!) or have their feet off the ground by means of a loop on the neck in any way, shape or form. even having the dog on his tippy-toes puts unnecessary pressure on the neck and back. I will freely admit to pulling their head up fairly high for short periods of time though, usually when they tried to bite me as I was trimming nails. However, the dog certainly doesn't choke, it just keeps them from reaching my hands. In fact, if they'd stand up and quit TRYING to get me in the first place, they'd be perfectly comfortable! I try to avoid muzzling, many dogs' behavior seems to be escalated by it. 

And btw, I believe that by noose tortoise means a grooming loop. Many groomers call them nooses.


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## Bev's dog (Jan 19, 2012)

I took Wiley to Petsmart last week and he looks great!

Thank you to all of you groomers who work so hard.


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

I am so sorry for what both you and Diamond had to go through. Your post touched me because I left a grooming shop over another grooming abusing dogs (and my name is Stephanie! How about that?)

Anyway, I worked at Petco, that was my first mistake! It's great for starting out but chain stores like that care about ONE thing: money!

There was a groomer mistreating dogs. She would be rough with puppies and first time dogs who didn't know better, she would take dogs into the back of the bathing area and "scold" them. She would yell at dogs..sometimes taking them in the back and sitting on them in order to groom them, all sorts of terrible things. I went to other managers in the store constantly telling them about her behavior. I was constantly turned away. I was told to mind my own business. I was getting in trouble for continuing to "tattle" on another employee. Trust me if she had just been stealing or doing something petty that didn't hurt anybody...I would have probably looked the other way! The fact is she was hurting a living, breathing animal and I couldn't stand it.

Finally I contacted corporate who made management start paying a bit more attention to the grooming shop. This was a good thing...but management knew I did it and I was further scolded for going to someone higher up. This groomer was continuing to hurt animals. I found another job..but I couldn't leave knowing that groomer would still be there without anyone else to stand up for the pups getting hurt.

So, I took my video camera to work and left it on where it would video the groomer while I would be in the back or out of the grooming shop. I caught a bunch of footage on camera and then sent that to corporate. You would think that would have been enough to get this girl fired. NOPE! Not when it's the highest paid groomer doing these horrible acts. She made Petco way too much money for them to fire her over it.

As a last resort on my last day of work I posted the video on the local craigslist website on a youtube link. Petco received hundreds and hundreds of phone calls, people showed up in anger seeing her still in the groom shop. She was pretty much chased out of Petco by the locals..and the store could no longer ignore my proof!

I never went back. I did get messages from others who worked there saying it did cause quite a stir. I have no idea where that groomer ended up. I hope, for animals sake, she's not grooming. If I ever find out she's at another groom shop I still have the video and I will gladly send it to any company I see her working for.

I'm glad you found your groomer and that Diamond is in good hands!

I will also add that there is NO reason to groom a dog that has to be restrained to the point of jacking the grooming arm up high..or using excessive force. If a dog is that bad...send them home! I realize it may be different if you work at a vet clinic...but jeez..you have the ability to sedate..just do it and cause the least amount of harm to the animal. NOT sedating and grooming an aggressive/crazy dog not only puts yourself in danger..but increases the chance for a dog to get cut in the process. I will never think that is acceptable behavior. I had to tell a client last week I wouldn't do her dog again. After several grooms his behavior would not improve..i was tired of getting bit, and his grooms were looking like crap because I couldn't do a good job with snappy-joe (he constantly snaps at clippers, hands, combs, etc...so i call him snappy-joe).

I did have one client accuse me of being rough with a dog. I was bathing my own German Shepherd. She happened to be watching when my lovely Pandora decided to jump out of the tub (in my arms) soaking wet and soapy. She slid herself out of the leash keeping her in the tub and came right out. They probably saw me struggling to get her back in the tub without us both falling over on the floor and considered this abuse. Was it? No...but I can certainly see from an outsiders point of view how it could be seen as such given the timing. I do expect more out of my own dogs vs. a client and mine KNOW how to behave and if they don't I will be firm..but i have still never had to use excessive force or restraint...even on a crazy shepherd.


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## DivinityPoodles (Jan 23, 2012)

Wow I'm so sorry that you had such an experience. Did Diamond show any signs of abuse when she came home or did she seem fine? How does Stephanie say she acts when she's groomed? Before and after I mean. Hope she has forgotten the experience. 
I just groom my dogs myself. They got groomed by the breeder then came home to me (who had never groomed a poodle in my life lol) and away we went. Some messy cuts but hey hair grows and we're all learning.

Good luck.


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