# Where to find an adult Standard



## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

I was on a breeder's list since last year. I waited through 2 litters and at the last minute, the breeder informed me, that, despite all the discussion and emails about what I wanted in a puppy, she allowed other people on the list to reserve by color, leaving me with a dog that was basically, the leftover because I hadn't specified a color. I would not have done so because I don't think that matters, as I specifically sought a breeder that only breeds for certain colors anyway. There is one color that I do not want but this breeder doesn't breed hat color. 
I had specifically contacted her on the day the puppies were born to make sure that she was NOT going to assign puppies that way and stated that if she was, to please let me know so that I could look elsewhere. Of course, she did not do that. So, here I am again, without a puppy and having to start looking for other breeders and waiting on other lists. 

Because it is mu intention to participate in agility, rally, etc, waiting another year for a dog, is like another 3 years because dogs have to be 2 before they can participate in sports. I understand, it's for the benefit of their health. However, that doesn't help me. I know they're few and far between but does anybody know of breeders who may have adult Standards available? The only problem is the dogs would have to be able tolerate cats because I watch my brother's cats from time to time. I have tried rescues and came up with nothing.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

Mish, I think there were some leads for breeders/dogs on the other thread you posted not long ago. Sounds like there are a lot of people here who want to help but need to know a location. I wish you luck...I know you can find what you are looking for..


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I would recommend you go back to your other thread that you started and then vanished into thin air. People were trying to help you there but you were unresponsive to their inquiries or comments. Best to stick with people on that other thread than starting new ones...I think that would be more efficient in helping you find a dog.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Mish17 said:


> Because it is mu intention to participate in agility, rally, etc, waiting another year for a dog, is like another 3 years because dogs have to be 2 before they can participate in sports. I understand, it's for the benefit of their health. .


Just a little correction--you can start rally as well as agility foundation work when your dog is a puppy. For FCAT, dogs have to be at least a year old, and I know nothing about agility, but you could definitely do a lot of work before your dog is of competing age.

ETA: If you think finding a puppy is hard, chances of finding a nice adult spoo are about 1/100. So I'd focus on a pup.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Mish17 said:


> I was on a breeder's list since last year. I waited through 2 litters and at the last minute, the breeder informed me, that, despite all the discussion and emails about what I wanted in a puppy, she allowed other people on the list to reserve by color, leaving me with a dog that was basically, the leftover because I hadn't specified a color. I would not have done so because I don't think that matters, as I specifically sought a breeder that only breeds for certain colors anyway. There is one color that I do not want but this breeder doesn't breed hat color.
> I had specifically contacted her on the day the puppies were born to make sure that she was NOT going to assign puppies that way and stated that if she was, to please let me know so that I could look elsewhere. Of course, she did not do that. So, here I am again, without a puppy and having to start looking for other breeders and waiting on other lists.
> 
> Because it is mu intention to participate in agility, rally, etc, waiting another year for a dog, is like another 3 years because *dogs have to be 2 before they can participate in sports*. I understand, it's for the benefit of their health. However, that doesn't help me. I know they're few and far between but does anybody know of breeders who may have adult Standards available? The only problem is the dogs would have to be able tolerate cats because I watch my brother's cats from time to time. I have tried rescues and came up with nothing.



That is not a rule and only really matters for agility. Javelin got his rally novice title before he turned one. I say this mostly for the benefit of the broad audience since I have given you recommendations and I am not really sure what the problems with finding a puppy are for you.


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## PuppyDream (Dec 30, 2018)

Minarets Poodles has a 6 mo male poodle that has been trained to compete in rally. Check out the following link.

Teenage and Adult Dogs Available for Placement on Poodles Online.com


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Wow, nice rally titles on both parents of that pup!! Maizie has Minaret's in her pedigree.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

I’ll contact the breeder in WY. As far as anything else, I’d have to get back on yet, another list, probably for next year. Then, again, there’s no guarantee that I’d get a puppy. I was guaranteed a puppy from the list I was on, just not the right puppy. That is, not one that was selected for the right reasons. 
I’m tired if going through all this, being disappointed and having to wait a whole year again. I have tried shelters and rescues even to find a dog that isn’t a Poodle but most of the dogs within 3 states of where I live are Pot Bulls.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

lily cd re said:


> Mish17 said:
> 
> 
> > I was on a breeder's list since last year. I waited through 2 litters and at the last minute, the breeder informed me, that, despite all the discussion and emails about what I wanted in a puppy, she allowed other people on the list to reserve by color, leaving me with a dog that was basically, the leftover because I hadn't specified a color. I would not have done so because I don't think that matters, as I specifically sought a breeder that only breeds for certain colors anyway. There is one color that I do not want but this breeder doesn't breed hat color.
> ...


As far as the breeder you recommended, I honestly did not get the impression that the breeder would be easy to deal with. It didn’t seem like the breeder would be the type to be understanding of my situation, as far as not being able to go there in person. I didn’t feel that I would have a good chance of getting a dog from her. That’s just the impression that I got. I want to feel comfortable with the breeder and be able to contact him/her if I have questions.
As far as my part of the country, I’ve exhausted everybody on the list of PCA breeders that health test.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

*This is what I’m looking for*

This is what I’m looking for: a breeder who does minimal vaccinations, doesn’t get offended by being asked a lot of questions, doesn’t do a lot of inbreeding, has performance titles in the pedigree, is active with the breed, performs, at least, all the testing required by PCA, doesn’t breed to dogs or the offspring of dogs that had some type of major illness, doesn’t have a problem with me possibly not being there myself to pick up the dog, doesn’t take deposits that won’t be returned if there is no puppy available that is compatible, chooses puppies based on personality not color, socializes the puppies to some extent so that they are well adjusted when they go to the new owners, and preferably, has dogs that are not black. Originally, I was looking for breeders who raised dogs more naturally, without using chemicals and who feed raw but I can see that that’s too much to ask.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Mish17 said:


> As far as the breeder you recommended, I honestly did not get the impression that the breeder would be easy to deal with. It didn’t seem like the breeder would be the type to be understanding of my situation, as far as not being able to go there in person. I didn’t feel that I would have a good chance of getting a dog from her. That’s just the impression that I got. I want to feel comfortable with the breeder and be able to contact him/her if I have questions.
> As far as my part of the country, I’ve exhausted everybody on the list of PCA breeders that health test.



One of Javelin's sisters lives in Maine. They met her the day they picked her up. So I don't have a clue about why you got the impression that she would be difficult to deal with unless you seemed to be looking for a unicorn. Of course you should feel comfortable with the person from whom you get a puppy. However my experience with Madela was very very pleasant. I was initially 2nd on the list for a boy when we made an agreement in late March. Color wasn't an issue since it was an all black litter coming. Between then and pick day the first person had decided to wait for a later litter so I was first on the list and Javelin came home with us in July. We talked on the phone a couple of times, but also did a fair amount of emailing.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I don't claim to be a psychiatrist or anything but methinks deep down inside, subconsciously it might be possible that you really might not want a poodle. Maybe in the back of your mind, it all seems too over whelming. (?) I could be dead wrong of course. And I wouldn't blame you one bit for being cautious. However, your expectations of a breeder, to me are bordering the unreasonable. You shoot down peoples' suggestions who are trying to help or give some reason they won't work or what's wrong with the suggestion...defaulting to the negative it seems. You don't say what state you live in (unless I missed it) so no one can suggest a breeder. I can come up with loads of very fine breeders in my state of Washington. I could get a poodle in a heart beat if I wanted one. I like Farthing/Sovereign poodles in Eatonville Wa. I like Lakeridge in Renton. Those people would have leads to more puppies. Sovereign (same as Farthing) has a white 6 month old male poodle available now.https://www.farthingpoodles.com/nursery/ Does she do few vaccinations? I doubt it. Does she feed raw? I don't know but I kind of doubt it. Does she want to meet prospective buyers? Yes. I would have no problem with that. You should, if at all possible...if the breeder is in your state go meet them, look over their facility, check them out as well as they should be asking you some questions too. I find it difficult to believe that Washington state is the only state that has some stellar breeders with puppies on their way or already available. 

So, you have to get on a waiting list perhaps? That's the name of the game. I went on a couple, one after the other when looking for my Doberman. And it took me a while to find a good breeder in my area for my toy poodles because I didn't know of any...was new to poodles. But once I found my breeder, I got not one, but TWO poodles. Other well bred purebred dogs I've gotten in the past...no problems hooking up. So if I didn't have much trouble and most of the people on this forum, for instance didn't have too much trouble or an inordinate amount of waiting, what do you suppose is the reason you are the rarity here? How long have you been looking? Maybe it would behoove you to take a step back and try to look at this from an especially objective view. Just finding fault with the breeders isn't going to get you anywhere. They're not going to care what you think. Let's face it. There has to be some logical reason why this isn't working that you get a poodle. It is not that there aren't enough good breeders. I don't think they're all unreasonable people who won't work with buyers or no one here would have a poodle either. And they'd all be poodle hoarders being arrested because they didn't sell a single puppy.:act-up:

Another thing you might consider is thanking people here who are bending over backwards to try to help you. This way their helpful behavior won't extinguish from lack of a positive response. You give no information as to the state you live in...don't want to answer that question. (unless I missed it, which is entirely possible) So no one can point you to a breeder near you or help you research the breeder. Maybe I missed that.

The only thing you seem to not be overly particular about is color. That's a good thing. Maybe it would help to loosen some of your other criteria. Forget what they're eating. If they're a good breeder, no doubt their dogs are thriving and surviving just fine. Following a typical vaccination protocol when you want less? So do less later. For now...deal with it. I did. Most people here did. My breeder was good but feeding a food I thought looked like sh!!. I changed their food when I brought them home. They're just fine at almost 6 years old. Oh and you better believe it that I went to look this place over and met the breeder. Multiple times. And then picked them up. Naturally breeders want to know how their puppies will be taken care of and who is buying them. I know some don't scrutinize that carefully or sometimes they ship them. But if possible, I think it's really nifty to go see them. Naturally they'll be receptive to questions put to them as well as long as you're polite and don't come off as too demanding or entitled. If not, then they're not good breeders. Most breeders I talked to prior to getting my puppies were glad to answer my questions _which_ were limited to genetic health testing, longevity of their ancestors, what they _did _die of, what type and amount of socialization they have received up to now...brief description. Any grooming practice? I did not ask that they limit their vaccinations or that they feed a certain food. That might be insulting and it's just not necessary. OR plausible. Most breeders will vaccinate their puppies because things like parvo are incredibly deadly. You can limit that later on if you so choose. So if you really want a puppy or adult dog, you really should be able to find one. But you might have to bend a little. Good luck.
__________________


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I don't claim to be a psychiatrist or anything but methinks deep down inside, subconsciously it might be possible that you really might not want a poodle. Maybe in the back of your mind, it all seems too over whelming. (?) I could be dead wrong of course. And I wouldn't blame you one bit for being cautious. However, your expectations of a breeder, to me are bordering the unreasonable. You shoot down peoples' suggestions who are trying to help or give some reason they won't work or what's wrong with the suggestion...defaulting to the negative it seems. You don't say what state you live in (unless I missed it) so no one can suggest a breeder. I can come up with loads of very fine breeders in my state of Washington. I could get a poodle in a heart beat if I wanted one. I like Farthing/Sovereign poodles in Eatonville Wa. I like Lakeridge in Renton. Those people would have leads to more puppies. Sovereign (same as Farthing) has a white 6 month old male poodle available now.https://www.farthingpoodles.com/nursery/ Does she do few vaccinations? I doubt it. Does she feed raw? I don't know but I kind of doubt it. Does she want to meet prospective buyers? Yes. I would have no problem with that. You should, if at all possible...if the breeder is in your state go meet them, look over their facility, check them out as well as they should be asking you some questions too. I find it difficult to believe that Washington state is the only state that has some stellar breeders with puppies on their way or already available.
> 
> So, you have to get on a waiting list perhaps? That's the name of the game. I went on a couple, one after the other when looking for my Doberman. And it took me a while to find a good breeder in my area for my toy poodles. But once I found my breeder, I got not one, but TWO poodles. Other well bred purebred dogs I've gotten in the past...no problems hooking up. So if I didn't have much trouble and most of the people on this forum, for instance didn't have too much trouble or an inordinate amount of waiting, what do you suppose is the reason you are the rarity here? How long have you been looking? Maybe it would behoove you to take a step back and try to look at this from an especially objective view. Just finding fault with the breeders isn't going to get you anywhere. They're not going to care what you think. Let's face it. There has to be some logical reason why this isn't working that you get a poodle. It is not that there aren't enough good breeders. I don't think they're all unreasonable people who won't work with buyers or no one here would have a poodle either. And they'd all be poodle hoarders being arrested because they didn't sell a single puppy.
> 
> ...


Most of the breeders I have spoken to are only doing minimal vaccinations now. I have read a lot about health issues in dogs in general and there are things that I won’t compromise on. I’m flexible about the food. The only color i’d prefer not to have is black. Have you ever read Pukka s Promise? He found a dog and his criteria were stricter than mine. I cannot fly and there are no breeders in my area who do all the health testing. I mentioned I’ve already been through the pca referral list. So, it is not likely that i’ll be able to visit or possibly even be there myself to pick up the puppy. That’s just the way it is for me. I’ve explained all of this before. That’s a problem because if a breeder requires it, then obviously, I cannot deal with that breeder. Poodles don’t grow on trees here. There may be breeders but I’ve either already tried dealing with them or they don’t health test. I have mentioned before that I’m in the Midatlantic refion and I also mentioned that I went out of my way to try getting dogs from local breeders who even use the vet I used with my previous dogs and they won’t sell me a dog because they didn’t like that I asked a lot of health questions. 
If I were a breeder, I would not be insulted by questions from prospective owners. If I did, it would be because ai had something to hide. I would rather sell to people who had questions to ask because they were informed, than sell to people who don’t ask because they are too ignorant to have any questions. I know it’s easier to be on the other side and to be judgmental. I have sat through waiting lists. I was refused a dog last year because ai couldn’t pick it up. That had nothing to so with a mental block against getting a dog. This last time, the breeder wasn’t up front with me about her policies. Again, nothing I could control. This is not a hobby for me. It’s stressful and frustrating waiting and watching the puppies develop , then time after time not getting one.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> vOh and you better believe it that I went to look this place over and met the breeder. Multiple times. And then picked them up. Naturally breeders want to know how their puppies will be taken care of and who is buying them. I know some don't scrutinize that carefully or sometimes they ship them. But if possible, I think it's really nifty to go see them.


Great advice, Pb. I definitely think it is preferable to meet the breeder and pup in person first, but sometimes that is not possible. Maizie was shipped to me sight unseen because it would have been nearly impossible for me to travel to Utah at that time. Her breeder made an exception for me, as she usually never ships. I think Mish mentioned she may have a disability of some sort that prohibits her from traveling?


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

It sounds like an impossible situation then and you've exhausted all possibilities. I'm really sorry. Maybe a rescue dog or another breed? Maybe MF's breeder or someone she knows would ship you a puppy too Mish? It all sounds very frustrating.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Mish17 said:


> If I were a breeder, I would not be insulted by questions from prospective owners.


Which states does the Mid-Atlantic area include? I don't know my geography too well. 

A good breeder will not be insulted by reasonable questions.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

I have to have a non/low shedding “hypoallergenic” breed. I don’t want a PWD or a terrier of any kind and I don’t want a small dog. I even tried Doodles but the waiting lists are ridiculous. I’ve tried rescues and there’s nothing. I got on these waiting lists because I anticipated getting a puppy. I’ve wasted three years and nothing. Getting a dog shouldn’t be this stressful.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Are you able to pay $2,000-$3,000? That is what it will cost to have a quality poodle shipped.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Mish17 said:


> I have to have a non/low shedding “hypoallergenic” breed. I don’t want a PWD or a terrier of any kind and I don’t want a small dog. I even tried Doodles but the waiting lists are ridiculous. I’ve tried rescues and there’s nothing. I got on these waiting lists because I anticipated getting a puppy. I’ve wasted three years and nothing. Getting a dog shouldn’t be this stressful.



No, it shouldn't be that stressful. I see...so you need a hypoallergenic dogs. I don't know how hard it is to get but I like a well bred standard Schnauzer. They're not very big though. I've known several that were very, very nice dogs. I don't know if they're hypoallergenic but I don't believe they shed. hmmm.

Well, if you can't travel and there are no good breeders in your town and there's not a one who will ship to you...I don't know what else to say. I have heard of breeders shipping but I don't know of any personally. Maybe someone else will...maybe MF's breeder will or knows someone.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> No, it shouldn't be that stressful. I see...so you need a hypoallergenic dogs. I don't know how hard it is to get but I like a *well bred standard Schnauzer. They're not very big though. I've known several that were very, very nice dogs*. I don't know if they're hypoallergenic but I don't believe they shed. hmmm.


Really?? Every Schnauzer I meet is barky as heck. You are correct that they are hypoallergenic and non-shedding


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

I don’t need the dog shipped. If I cannot go myself, family members are willing to go for me. Some breeders don’t find that acceptable either.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

Family members can pick a dog up for me but some breeders don’t find that acceptable either, even i offer to skype or facetime.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

Schnauzers are terriers. I’m not really a terrier person. Wheatons are pretty, a good size, they’re smart and don’t shed but they’ll also jump over your fence. No terriers but thanks for the suggestion.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

MaizieFrosty said:


> Really?? Every Schnauzer I meet is barky as heck. You are correct that they are hypoallergenic and non-shedding


Oh...barky maybe. But nice. lol. :angel:

Well Mish, I've spent all the time I can on this one... in trying to offer solutions of some sort. I think the bottom line is that you've tried everything under the sun for 3 loooong years and it's just not happenin'. Nothing has worked. I don't see that changing, you know. So, you may just have to accept the idea that you won't have a poodle. It's a bummer. But then, life has it's disappointments for sure. Maybe some day you'll move to another area where you can find a poodle. Or where someone can bring you one if you live close to a breeder who's willing to do that. Otherwise, I'd just let it go and move on with your life without a poodle. There _are_ other hobbies and there are always human friends to visit with and who care about you and for you to care about. No fur, no allergies, no yapping, no tying you down, no vet bills, no poop to clean up. I love my hooman friends too. :angel:


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

Mish17 said:


> Schnauzers are terriers. I’m not really a terrier person. Wheatons are pretty, a good size, they’re smart and don’t shed but they’ll also jump over your fence. No terriers but thanks for the suggestion.


Schnauzers are very much working dogs. Minis are different, but Standards and Giants were bred to be an all-around farm dog, which includes herding sheep, protection of family and livestock, drafting (pulling the vegetable cart), controlling vermin, going out to find the cows and bring them in, etc. They can be land and water retrievers for hunting, and love water work. I have had three Giants and have several friends who breed Standards, so have some experience with them. Minis do bark, but Standards and Giants typically do not. They are extremely intelligent and self starters. They notice everything. They will look around, see what needs to be done, and go do it on their own. They very much need a job to do and to be kept busy, and it's pretty easy for Giants to become aggressive. I don't think Standards have the same problems with aggression. Much higher energy and harder to live with than poodles, but if you're looking for a working dog, you might look at a Standard Schnauzer.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> MaizieFrosty said:
> 
> 
> > Really?? Every Schnauzer I meet is barky as heck. You are correct that they are hypoallergenic and non-shedding
> ...


That’s both patronizing and extremely insulting. One of the reasons I want a dog is that I’ve had more disappointments in life than anyone could imagine. A dog is one of the few things in life that gives me enjoyment. I cannot enjoy much due to medical problems. I’m glad you have abette things to do with tour time and that you have a better life and can just dismiss this and move on but I cannot. I don’t appreciate condescension at all.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

If someone else is able to fly to pick up the puppy, then I would suggest to keep doing research. Have you contacted Arreau?? She is a member that posts on this website. Anyone would be seriously lucky to have one of her standard poodles. In fact, it seems several members do!

I am in the midwest, and I have done some research on breeders near me (for standards and minis), and many of them put people on waiting lists based on gender. They are willing to ship, though. 

If you want a dog with specific standards that bad, it will take longer to find...but you need to take people's help/suggestions from this forum and keep doing your research. And yes, you will pay more.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Mish17 said:


> That’s both patronizing and extremely insulting. One of the reasons I want a dog is that I’ve had more disappointments in life than anyone could imagine. A dog is one of the few things in life that gives me enjoyment. I cannot enjoy much due to medical problems. I’m glad you have abette things to do with tour time and that you have a better life and can just dismiss this and move on but I cannot. I don’t appreciate condescension at all.


You have dismissed every suggestion anyone has offered. You have shown yourself to be ungrateful for the suggestions. You have been insulting people by not thanking anyone for their ideas. You have criticized every breeder that you have contacted or say you have talked to. You have been supposedly trying to get a dog for 3 years! Three years. And nothing. So how do you think anything is going to change? In three years you have not found one breeder who you can work with. There's something wrong with all of them. _That's_ incredible. It's incredible that not one will interview you, then bring you a puppy, ship you a puppy or let someone pick up a puppy for you. _Incredible_. 

Sorry if you're insulted or feel patronized. But I'm being perfectly honest. There's something wrong with this picture. I really think that since you've done everything that everyone has suggested already, and anything else isn't to your liking or you say won't work for some reason, you don't know or like the breeders, none will work out, none want to sell you a puppy, then I see no solution. _That's _not patronizing. That's simply what's placed out in front of me from reading all this. Where do you live? If someone here lives near, maybe they can bring you a puppy. It will probably have vaccinations, commercial food, might be black, might be this or that. (sorry, I'm a poet) But I would wager $$$$ that some breeder near enough to you would come to your home, interview you, see where their puppy would live, find out if they like you or not and bring you a puppy. You're probably too picky. People have suggested all kinds of things to which you have replied negatively, rejecting _everything_. What do you expect? I am beginning to_ see_ a big, red "*T*" in front of _me_. And if I'm wrong, pardon me.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

I've been through the puppy search recently so I understand how hard it can be to find a puppy that fits what you're looking for. I also started out with a long list of things I was looking for. When I did pick a breeder, it was about deciding which things on my list were most important to ending up with the dog I was hoping to have. I think it's fine to have a few things you really care about, but that means you have to be more lax on the other things. And I was looking at minis which, from what I understand, are much harder to find than standards. But still, I looked at a lot of breeders that offer flight nanny services as an alternative to flying to pick up your puppy yourself. And so I assume any breeder that is okay with that would also be fine with a family member picking up the dog.

In regard to breeders being offended by lots of questions, I can see that going both ways. I think asking questions is fine and definitely necessary, but you have to do it with tact and be careful that you don't sound accusatory or like you're attacking them. From their perspective, they're the expert and you're trying to lecture them about things they know more about than you do. I have no idea how you've approached breeders about this, but it could be something to think about.

Another thing, if you have your heart set on a specific breeder then of course you have to be prepared to be on a waiting list for as long as it takes. But if you have your heart set on a _dog_ then it's probably better to find a good list of breeders that you find _acceptable_ (not necessarily perfect) and then see who is expecting pups soon, so that if it doesn't work out you haven't wasted so much time.

But it sounds like you're not actually looking for help because you've already decided that it won't work. I don't know.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I had no problem at all in finding a standard poodle. I was talking to one breeder who had two available but thought they may not fit my criteria in that I was looking for a calm even tempered pup. LOL I got Renn. Her friend had a litter and brought puppies to me to choose. All health tested and have a good line, I almost wasn't ready but the basically fell into my lap. I was very fortunate in getting him. Both his parents a gah and two of his litter mates also have their ch. Her following litter also is doing great in the ring. Not that I really care I just wanted a healthy dog. How I train, feed and vaccinate will be my choice.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

I can't add this to my previous post, so I will add it here...

Something that is important to remember when interacting with breeders is the customer service aspect. I know we are talking about a living things and not a car, clothing or something like that, but this is still important. Good breeders have waiting lists for a reason- people want their dogs. When interacting with the breeders, if you immediately think it isn't going to work and you come off as rude, they are going to be less willing to work with you and they will place their dogs with other people. You need to think about how you are approaching them, and just like with anyone, it should start polite and stay that way. Then, they should be more willing to work with you. They do not have to give a dog to you, so be careful about making it seem like you are placing _demands_ on them. If you need a breeder to meet/work with _specific needs_, then work with the breeder about those needs. Not being able to fly is a special need, and I am sure a breeder will accommodate...but maybe not if you make it seem like a demand. And have certain things in writing BEFORE you give them a deposit. 

I know none of this is easy. I don't know how I could live without my dogs to be honest, so I understand wanting a dog. Again, I ask for you to let people help, but remember the people who suggest things are people...remember to be polite in return.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

Mish17 said:


> This is what I’m looking for: a breeder who does minimal vaccinations *(Shouldn't be too hard to find)*, doesn’t get offended by being asked a lot of questions*(shouldn't be hard to find)*, doesn’t do a lot of inbreeding*(Linebreeding is generally more common than inbreeding, but a lot of breeders are paying attention to coi's now so low coi's aren't uncommon)*, has performance titles in the pedigree*(for standards this is a little less easy to find than minis, but it's possible, especially rally novice type titles or chase/sprinter/fastcat/lure type titles)*, is active with the breed*shouldn't be hard to find*, performs*(not sure if you mean 'performance' (agility obedience etc) or just does something with the dogs like show or actually working the dog, but shouldn't be hard to find someone that does something with their dogs)*, at least, all the testing required by PCA*(shouldn't be hard to find)*, doesn’t breed to dogs or the offspring of dogs that had some type of major illness*(shouldn't be too hard to find a breeder that strives to breed away from any major issue, but sometimes you don't know things till you breed to it and it shows up in your litter)*, doesn’t have a problem with me possibly not being there myself to pick up the dog*I don't think that's impossible, people do it all the time, but they may prefer a 'nanny' rather than shipping the dog)*, doesn’t take deposits that won’t be returned if there is no puppy available that is compatible*(shouldn't be that difficult to find, most require a 'non refundable deposit' to ensure people are actually serious about taking a pup, instead of tire kicking, but will return it if they can't produce a pup)*, chooses puppies based on personality not color*(a good breeder won't choose based just on color so shouldn't be hard to find)*, socializes the puppies to some extent so that they are well adjusted when they go to the new owners*(shouldn't be hard to find, most do puppy culture or avidog now)*, and preferably, has dogs that are not black*(lots of people breed for white/cream, you find a lot of silver breeders that do performance and show, and reds in hunting lines)*. Originally, I was looking for breeders who raised dogs more naturally, without using chemicals and who feed raw but I can see that that’s too much to ask.


There isn't a whole lot that looks to be TOO difficult to find. As long as you aren't so rigid if one thing on your list isn't PERFECT. I also think it depends on how you come off to the breeder. Pretend your applying for a job that you REALLY want. Obviously ask your important questions, but ask them in a very polite and reasonable way. 
It's nice to start your interaction with breeders like 
"Hello, I'm looking for my first standard poodle! I fell in love with the breed due to ___________. I've met so many that I just love. My dream is to train and title in agility and obedience! I have looked at your website/facebook page and I'm really interested into looking further into the possibility of getting a puppy from you. If you have the time I would love to discuss this further and ask you some questions and answer some questions to be sure that we would be a good fit! I look forward to hearing from you!' 
Then if the breeder responds ask your most important questions first. The absolute 'deal breakers'. Then if those sound ok, ask your next important questions, and work your way down your list with some small talk mixed in. If you have a TON of questions you might want to say part way through 'sorry for all the questions, I just really want to make sure I've done all my research so I can try to ensure the best possible fit for me and my goals!'
Asking ALL of them at once can be off putting and make you sound difficult to work with. (I need a breeder that does this and this and this and this and this) and it may make them think that if they don't do things EXACTLY the way that you want them done that you are implying they are a bad breeder.


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## PuppyDream (Dec 30, 2018)

I just went through a challenging search myself for a poodle, so I understand the quest can be frustrating and disappointing at times. But I found our "perfect" minipoo from Ash's Mystical. I got the color and the temperament we wanted sight unseen. I did all my research online and chose to have faith in the reviews and recommendation from previous buyers because I live too far away to visit in person. Marie at Ash's has been very responsive before, during, and even after I got the puppy. Marie sent my puppy to me via a pet nanny, who was also very nice and pleasant. All and all, my experience getting a puppy from Ash was very pleasant from beginning to finish and beyond. 

My puppy was very well adjusted. She was well behaved on the plane, during the car drive home, and only whined a couple of minutes before settling to sleep in the crate the first night. I know some PF members don't like to buy from a large scale breeder like Ash's. But this breeder turned out to be a good match for me. Perhaps a breeder with a large selection like Ash might be a good match for you.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

The problem is that I end up getting on the lists but after that, things go wrong. Breeders are not the most honest business people. They say it’s not a business but all they are concerned with is selling out a litter. What I was told when I questioned whether the puppy I was supposed to get was right for me was, “if you don’t want it I have plenty of people who do.” I had been on the waiting list since last year and was supposedly first. Then, I don’t get matched properly and that’s the attitude I get but I’m supposed to kiss a—when i talk to breeders after continually being screwed not once, not even twice but multiple times! 
I honestly don’t know how anybody has been able to get a dog long distance because it never works out for me because I am unable to visit.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

I got both of my girls, 14 yrs apart, from very reputable breeders, different breeders each time. I did not go to them to see their facilties or meet the puppies as I knew their reputations and knew people who had dogs from each of these ladies. Each of the puppies was flown to me.

In one instance we exchanged emails and had a few phone calls and I had my girl in 9 weeks.....she was born the day before my first contact with the breeder.

In the second instance someone who had one of the breeders dogs called me at 5:30 AM and said the breeder had a puppy. I called immediately, talked about an hour with the breeder and said I wanted the pup. We discussed a few things, she called me later that evening to say my pup would arrive at Denver International Airport at 1:15 the next day. So, the next day I had a new baby.

Both of these breeders are top of the line top notch extremely ethical breeders who have been breeding, showing and handling poodles for many decades. Each of them was kind, informative, honest, very professional and quite lovely to do business with.

It can be done.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

Viking Queen said:


> I got both of my girls, 14 yrs apart, from very reputable breeders, different breeders each time. I did not go to them to see their facilties or meet the puppies as I knew their reputations and knew people who had dogs from each of these ladies. Each of the puppies was flown to me.
> 
> In one instance we exchanged emails and had a few phone calls and I had my girl in 9 weeks.....she was born the day before my first contact with the breeder.
> 
> ...


Well, you were lucky enough to find the right ones and I never am. Based in location, I could try to search for a needle in a haystack and see if i find the breeders you used but I probably won’t and if i do, they may bot have the same attitude as they did with you.

I’m also not keen on having puppies flown in cargo, especially after the recent incident where a plane went down and none of the animals survived. I may not be able to visit, but I have family members who can drive a reasonable distance to get a dog or who could fly and bring a puppy back under the seat.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I’ve read all this thread and your other one too. I really sympathize with you.

Bottom line, what people are trying to tell you, is maybe there is something wrong with the way you approach breeders. Not intentionnally. But sometimes we just don’t realize we might be putting off people.

Breeders don’t owe you anything. Good breeders have waiting lists, they love their dogs and treat them as family, and if they don’t like you, or find you obnoxious (I’m not saying you are) or unpleasant, well they won’t want to deal with you. 

I think there might something in the way you present yourself and what you want that throws off breeders.

I mean, it doesn’t take 3 years to get a dog. Even if you have strict criterias. 

When I want a dog, I want it when I’m ready. So what I do is compromise. Not on health, but other aspects. Or age. Or sex. Or color. Or distance. 

Erase your board and start from scratch. Be positive and compromise. I’m sure you can get a dog within 4-8 weeks.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

Dechi said:


> I’ve read all this thread and your other one too. I really sympathize with you.
> 
> Bottom line, what people are trying to tell you, is maybe there is something wrong with the way you approach breeders. Not intentionnally. But sometimes we just don’t realize we might be putting off people.
> 
> ...


Again, if I am getting on the lists, then there's not a problem with the way I approach breeders. I'm basically getting bumped time after time because I cannot visit or go in person to pick up. It's that simple. I just don't live close to any Poodle breeders who do health testing. I definitely would not be the house on me finding a dog within the next 4 months, let alone 4 weeks.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

Mish17 said:


> Again, if I am getting on the lists, then there's not a problem with the way I approach breeders. I'm basically getting bumped time after time because I cannot visit or go in person to pick up. It's that simple. I just don't live close to any Poodle breeders who do health testing. I definitely would not be the house on me finding a dog within the next 4 months, let alone 4 weeks.


But from what you have said about the breeders you have got on lists, they aren't actually reputable breeders. Yes poor breeders will be willing to sell pretty much anyone a dog so how you approach them doesn't really matter much. REPUTABLE breeders it WILL matter cause they want their puppies to go to good homes and have good relationships with their puppy buyers.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

So have your family members go fly to pick up a puppy and bring him or her back. Problem solved!


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

MaizieFrosty said:


> So have your family members go fly to pick up a puppy and bring him or her back. Problem solved!


I have to rind one first.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

https://micheletpoodles.com/hello-from-michelet-poodles

https://visionkennelpoodles.com/puppies-for-sale

https://www.citylightsstandards.com

Check them out. If vision site is up to date they should have puppies. I would call each one and see.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

Mufar42 said:


> https://micheletpoodles.com/hello-from-michelet-poodles
> 
> https://visionkennelpoodles.com/puppies-for-sale
> 
> ...


These don’t look familiar. I’l check them out. Thanks.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I find it hard to understand why you are having such a problem. I do question health, temperament is second to me, as I can teach them. All of my dogs are the same, not when I got them but now. I normally within 2 weeks have a dog. Now I may travel 4 or 5 hours one way, and they are toy poodles, some 8 weeks (to young) 12 weeks and others have been for 8 months to 5 years. The only one that is still a little skittish is sage, had her 2 years and my friends cannot believe the difference in her. 

You may want to relax things other than health, color has nothing to do with it (other than black is harder for me to see to groom). If they want you to pick it up explain why you cannot travel. If they have a concern about your health do you have someone that could take the dog if something happened to you. My dogs are in my will so I can understand a groomer wanting to make sure their puppies go the the right place. I am set up to have inspections done wherever they go with vets reports sent the the executor of the estate and money set aside to pay for what is needed. No kids here except for my fur babies and they are number 1 in my life, all 3 of them


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

After he experience with my last dog, I am very concerned about temperament. The breeder was treasurer of the local club, had all kinds of titles on her dogs but did not do anything to try to select the right puppies for owners. I never owned that breed before and I have never owned a Poodle before, so I am relying on the breeder this time, to evaluate temperament for me, as it should have been done with my last dog. My last dog did not respond to any of the training we did. I tried everything with him and could never participate in the agility or obedience. I know that some dogs have soft personalities that are not good for certain things and others may be too high drive. So, I won’t go with a breeder who allows people to jist reserve by color or who has people who can visit pick and leave me with nothing but a leftover that may not be what I need. I know there are breeders who pick the dogs for the owners because they believe they know better, based on their experience, which puppy is best suited for each potential owner. This is what I am looking for in a breeder. Breeders who aren’t involved in performance may not be able to judge these things as well.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Call Oksana at Rock'nRolla and tell her Frosty's mom sent you. She mostly sells to companion homes, but if you tell her what you are looking for in a performance prospect, she will deliver! She chose Frosty for me and he's exactly what I wanted in temperament and looks. She has a much longer wait for black dogs than white/cream. Puppies are currently $2,800.

Also try Susan Wilson at 5-Star Poodles. Both of these breeders are in CA, but since you can have a family member travel for you, you are set! You can't get any better, IMHO.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

.

Thanks. I’ll check. I haven’t trie them yet. I do have a couple of prospects for later in the year. I know one was endorsed by a breeder on this site. Neither one check all of my boxes but that’s not going to happen.


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## Eclipse (Apr 26, 2010)

"After the experience with my last dog, I am very concerned about temperament. The breeder was treasurer of the local club, had all kinds of titles on her dogs but did not do anything to try to select the right puppies for owners. I never owned that breed before and I have never owned a Poodle before, so I am relying on the breeder this time, to evaluate temperament for me, as it should have been done with my last dog. My last dog did not respond to any of the training we did. I tried everything with him and could never participate in the agility or obedience. I know that some dogs have soft personalities that are not good for certain things and others may be too high drive. So, I won’t go with a breeder who allows people to jist reserve by color or who has people who can visit pick and leave me with nothing but a leftover that may not be what I need. I know there are breeders who pick the dogs for the owners because they believe they know better, based on their experience, which puppy is best suited for each potential owner. This is what I am looking for in a breeder. *Breeders who aren’t involved in performance may not be able to judge these things as well."*

Mish, a number of us have repeatedly told you that it is not imperative that a good performance prospect come only from breeders that participate in performance. That is just one way you are limiting your possibilities. A good breeder will do temperament tests and can steer you towards the best performance prospect in the litter. Both of my girls came from pedigrees where almost every dog back for 5 generations was a breed champion. There were just a couple of agility titled dogs and one or 2 obedience titled dogs. My older girl has, I think, 81 titles now. The younger has over 30. Dogs that had basically no performance pedigree background from a breeder that does not do performance. I have mentioned more than once on a number of threads you have started with your complaint that correct structure is of prime importance to a performance dog or it will never hold up to training and competing. It is also what you do with the dog you get. My dogs, and the dogs of others on here who show and title in performance got those titles through lots of time spent training, hard work, travel, long days at shows, etc.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

Well, nothing yet. I checked with a couple of breeders who were supposed to have puppies but don't or at least, don't want to sell me one.
One breeder has couple but they're black, which is the only color I'm not really interested in.
Three other breeders have not replied yet. One may not at all, given that it's already been a few days and tried contacting by two different methods. 

I think I may be blacklisted, at this point.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

Why don't you want a black dog? Sounds like some are available.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

I have a thing about black dogs because I’ve had a few in the past and they all had a lot of health problems. Now, I kind of have a superstition about it. It may be irrational but I’d probably always have that at the back of my mind.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Never Hear of such a thing, I had 5 black dogs out of 8 toy poodles other 3 red, and there was no difference with any of them, not health problems, one black lived to be 19.5 yrs the rest 15 to 17 years. The only reason I did not want another black poodle is because it is hard for me to see to groom, so got one and take it to the groomers. With lighter dogs as they got old they had brown spots on their skin, non of my blacks did.

Might I say if you discuss with the breeders as you have on the forum, that may be the reason you are having not luck getting a dog. Everybody has requirements, but yours seems a little over the top.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

My Matilda (cockapoo) was black and lived the longest of my dogs so far....17 years. She had health problems but that was because she didn't come from a good breeder. Still lived a long time, though!


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

I haven’t had luck with black dogs. Yes, it’s irrational and I’ve never had a black Poodle but also, black Poodles remind me of my last black female, who had a ton of medical problems and was the sweetest, most well trained dog, I could have had. Looking at black Poodles always makes me sad because they remind me of her.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

glorybeecosta said:


> Never Hear of such a thing, I had 5 black dogs out of 8 toy poodles other 3 red, and there was no difference with any of them, not health problems, one black lived to be 19.5 yrs the rest 15 to 17 years. The only reason I did not want another black poodle is because it is hard for me to see to groom, so got one and take it to the groomers. With lighter dogs as they got old they had brown spots on their skin, non of my blacks did.
> 
> Might I say if you discuss with the breeders as you have on the forum, that may be the reason you are having not luck getting a dog. Everybody has requirements, but yours seems a little over the top.


Glorybee, I didn't think about much of any of this stuff that's sometimes discussed. I didn't care and still wouldn't about temperament "tests" and "performance-bred" poodles and all these other shenanigans. I went with a breeder with a stellar reputation for breeding stupendous temperaments. I got references from other breeders who had his poodles, one lady for over 20 years, had 4 of his poodles. I talked with exhibitors and other show people who raved about his dogs...their temperaments, conformation, good health. I came to trust that. 

I went to visit them for fun but I would have taken one of his sight unseen if needed but I lived only 20 minutes away. I was originally thinking I'd like to do agility since I had done it before with my Dobe. and when I saw Matisse and stuck my hand in the ex pen the first visit which was at 5 weeks of age and I had to use hand sanitizer that time, he stood out from the rest. I saw that he was _super_ exuberant and silly, playful, attacking my hand, pouncing on it. He was actually pretty hyper as a puppy...busy as a bee. I thought...now here's a puppy that would be super enthusiastic and would excel at agility or anything where he had to be energetic and enthusiastic, speedy, quick to learn, interested etc. Add in a little focus and training etc and he'd be perfect. And he's still like that but definitely more mellow but always ready for something fun. The other one, (black) (entirely different parents) was the opposite. He was quiet and understated but so affectionate, interested and cuddly. So I wound up with both. I originally wanted a different color but I am happy with what I have. I actually love the white and Matisse was a wonderful show dog, had all that vim and vigor, prancing around the ring like a spirited Arabian horse with a similar almost floating gait. He got his championship as a puppy at around 7 months or a little later. (I forget now) Beautifully put together. 

The smaller wee one, Maurice would make a terrific therapy dog...so comfortable just hanging out and very well socialized. No temperament test, no drilling the breeder with lists for my requirements, no nothing...except a reputable breeder who came with loads of recommendations and had very nice dogs. It took me a matter of months I think to find him. We chatted on the phone for a few minutes and he told me he has puppies that will be ready in another month or so...and to come on over. We got along well, I joined his handling class, he helped me with showing, I went to his house a couple of times for some stuff for diarrhea and another vaccine I think (my poor memory) etc and the rest is history.

Glory...I hear ya on the black being hard to see. That's true. Those tiny black toe nails. Yikes! I have to sit right next to a window when I Dremel and even all the shaving, clipping etc. But a big one might not be so hard to see.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I tried to send some links via pm but they don't seem to have gone thru but here From Facebook

https://www.crossbrookpoodles.com/?...nP1Mq7oitiI0YZzmyi3V1DZtvxIZjiuBOzORnlb7zgCxo
--------------------------------------------------------------------
All Nite Parti Poodles
Local Business
Send Message




All Nite Parti PoodlesLike Page
Yesterday at 3:49 PM · 
This is Dietrich, exquisite cream female for sale.
www.allntiepartipoodles.com
580-225-4630


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

Thanks. I’ll check it iut.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

and if you go to Linda Smith Facebook page you will see she has 2 cream colored males available. She is the linda smith k9 grooming.


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## cate&clair (Aug 7, 2017)

Good luck! 

All dogs need training to be their best. They don't come ready to compete in anything. (although as several others have said, you start training for lifelong companionship the day you bring home your puppy) 

The joy of a dog, whether for sport or not, is up to you. No breeder can build that in.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

Nothing yet. if the breeder I was waiting for would have been up front with me, I could have been on another list and had a puppy. I’ve missed most of the litters and now it’s also too late to get on lists for the next ones. This is what ALWAYS happens and why I end up waiting for another whole year!


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

Didn’t have any luck with Minarets.


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## PuppyDream (Dec 30, 2018)

How come? Was the pup no longer available? Or was there some other reason this lead did not yield success?

I also saw some poodles available from Desert Reef at PoodlesOnline.com. This breeder does placement after temperament testing. Did you check this out?


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

No. I’ll look into that one.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I should add to my post that I have not checked out any of the breeders that have come up on my FacebooSorry I just don't have enough time.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Mish17 said:


> This is what I’m looking for: a breeder who does minimal vaccinations, doesn’t get offended by being asked a lot of questions, doesn’t do a lot of inbreeding, has performance titles in the pedigree, is active with the breed, performs, at least, all the testing required by PCA, doesn’t breed to dogs or the offspring of dogs that had some type of major illness, doesn’t have a problem with me possibly not being there myself to pick up the dog, doesn’t take deposits that won’t be returned if there is no puppy available that is compatible, chooses puppies based on personality not color, socializes the puppies to some extent so that they are well adjusted when they go to the new owners, and preferably, has dogs that are not black. Originally, I was looking for breeders who raised dogs more naturally, without using chemicals and who feed raw but I can see that that’s too much to ask.


Call me! The only thing I do not do on your list is feed raw. And I would rather YOU pick up the puppy if you were picking up rather than shipping.


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

You seem to be living in the past, rehashing over and over all of your experiences with breeders who didn’t work out. Move on and find yourself a puppy. There are countless spoo breeders so stop recounting your bad experiences. Start listening to people’s advice (an occasional thank you would sure be nice.) Cherie very kindly just told you to call her. She has such amazing puppies. Desert reef was just mentioned. I live 15 mins from her and visit her dogs often. People here on this forum have personal experiences with many of the reputable breeders in North America. If you were less negative then maybe they would put in good recommendations for you with the breeders they know. Many breeders are okay with shipping puppies or doing a flight nanny. You are so negative and act like you will never get a puppy, and I think this attitude is the exact thing keeping you from getting a puppy. Break the cycle. Stop wallowing in self pity.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

Hoping it works out with one of the new breeders mentioned.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

I did send a pm to Arreau. I explained that I cannot go there in oerson, as I am unable to fly. I have tried several of the suggested breeders but they do not have puppies right now.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> Mish17 said:
> 
> 
> > This is what I’m looking for: a breeder who does minimal vaccinations, doesn’t get offended by being asked a lot of questions, doesn’t do a lot of inbreeding, has performance titles in the pedigree, is active with the breed, performs, at least, all the testing required by PCA, doesn’t breed to dogs or the offspring of dogs that had some type of major illness, doesn’t have a problem with me possibly not being there myself to pick up the dog, doesn’t take deposits that won’t be returned if there is no puppy available that is compatible, chooses puppies based on personality not color, socializes the puppies to some extent so that they are well adjusted when they go to the new owners, and preferably, has dogs that are not black. Originally, I was looking for breeders who raised dogs more naturally, without using chemicals and who feed raw but I can see that that’s too much to ask.
> ...


I did send a pm. I apologize if i don’t seem grateful for all the responses but finding a puppy has become a part time job. I appreciate your reply but as I mentioned, I am unable to fly, so I could not come in person. I don’t know much about pet nannies on planes or the costs involved with them. I should say that there are a few puppies available but they are black and there are in fact, some breeders who just won’t sell to me, for whatever reason. So,’taking into account that I, personally, cannot go to pick up a puppy in many cases as breeders would like, and, that I am trying to find colors other than black, and that some breeders won’t sell to me, plus the fact that lots of breeders don’t match puppies based on temperament, it does make finding a puppy very difficult.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

Mish17 said:


> I did send a pm to Arreau. I explained that I cannot go there in oerson, as I am unable to fly. I have tried several of the suggested breeders but they do not have puppies right now.


That’s not unusual. You generally have to wait with good breeders cause they aren’t just pumping out puppies.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

So once you find a breeder who will either allow someone else to pick up the puppy or will ship the puppy to you, and will allow you to choose the puppy based on temperament, yes, you will most likely be on a waitlist for the next litter. 

Cherie didn't say she wouldn't ship the puppy. Have you tried calling her, which is what she requested? Contact information is directly on her website.

Or, if you want a dog right now, just get a black dog. Whatever is holding you back from getting a dog of a certain color, it would be wise to attempt to move past that. If you get a red, white, brown, etc, poodle next and something happens to that dog, will you not want that color poodle in the future? It places limitations on you. One of the black poodles currently available could be a great fit for you, but you need to consider one of them to find out.


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## PuppyDream (Dec 30, 2018)

If you are wondering about the cost of pet nanny, it depends on the distance and the pet nanny. I paid about $450 to have a pet nanny bring my puppy from Las Vegas to Seattle. It might seem a lot, but once you factor in the cost of an airplane ticket for yourself ($200 and up), fee for bringing a pup on the plane (~$100), lodging (if stay overnight), car rental, food, etc... Not to mention your travel time. 

Once you consider the time the pet nanny would need to travel to pick up the pup from your breeder, drive to the airport, go through security, travel, and then fly back and drive back home, it would be a full exhausting day from morning to late at night. I felt it was a great bargain and it fit my schedule.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

PuppyDream said:


> If you are wondering about the cost of pet nanny, it depends on the distance and the pet nanny. I paid about $450 to have a pet nanny bring my puppy from Las Vegas to Seattle. It might seem a lot, but once you factor in the cost of an airplane ticket for yourself ($200 and up), fee for bringing a pup on the plane (~$100), lodging (if stay overnight), car rental, food, etc... Not to mention your travel time.
> 
> Once you consider the time the pet nanny would need to travel to pick up the pup from your breeder, drive to the airport, go through security, travel, and then fly back and drive back home, it would be a full exhausting day from morning to late at night. I felt it was a great bargain and it fit my schedule.


That seems like a fair price to me. Was this person suggested by the breeder, or did you find him/her yourself?


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## Nromley (Jan 5, 2019)

It seems to me that most buyers, including myself, are not really qualified to choose a puppy. We haven't spent the last eight plus weeks with them, and we don't know the dam or sire. If I walked into a room with six adorable poodle puppies, and one immediately came over and started tugging at my shoe lace, I might think, "This is my puppy. She's so outgoing. Look how she came right over to me." But, this puppy may do this to everyone, and maybe will turn out to have a very needy personality. Or, the puppy who holds back a bit, that we perceive as shy and retiring, may just be the smartest puppy of the bunch, who likes to assess the situation first and will grow up to be an outgoing and great companion.
I know I don't have the expertise to choose correctly. I let the breeder know what I'm looking for and let them assess the puppies and decide.


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## PuppyDream (Dec 30, 2018)

Dogs4Life said:


> That seems like a fair price to me. Was this person suggested by the breeder, or did you find him/her yourself?


This pet nanny was suggested by my breeder; she has delivered many puppies over many years for the breeder. My breeder arranged everything for me.

Yes, I agree with NRomley. I too feel that a breeder would be better equipped to assess the puppies' temperament. My breeder said that some customers who opted to choose the puppies themselves ended up not happy with their choices. For example, the most outgoing, exuberant puppy in the litter may turn out to be high energy and/or overly dominant, which might not be a good fit for a home with kids.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

Nromley said:


> It seems to me that most buyers, including myself, are not really qualified to choose a puppy. We haven't spent the last eight plus weeks with them, and we don't know the dam or sire. If I walked into a room with six adorable poodle puppies, and one immediately came over and started tugging at my shoe lace, I might think, "This is my puppy. She's so outgoing. Look how she came right over to me." But, this puppy may do this to everyone, and maybe will turn out to have a very needy personality. Or, the puppy who holds back a bit, that we perceive as shy and retiring, may just be the smartest puppy of the bunch, who likes to assess the situation first and will grow up to be an outgoing and great companion.
> I know I don't have the expertise to choose correctly. I let the breeder know what I'm looking for and let them assess the puppies and decide.



That's exactly the way I feel but that's been a problem for me-finding breeders who are willing to do this rather than just jumping at the first sale.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

PuppyDream said:


> This pet nanny was suggested by my breeder; she has delivered many puppies over many years for the breeder. My breeder arranged everything for me.
> 
> Yes, I agree with NRomley. I too feel that a breeder would be better equipped to assess the puppies' temperament. My breeder said that some customers who opted to choose the puppies themselves ended up not happy with their choices. For example, the most outgoing, exuberant puppy in the litter may turn out to be high energy and/or overly dominant, which might not be a good fit for a home with kids.


You pay for the pet nanny fee plus the airfare for this person?


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## Nromley (Jan 5, 2019)

Mish17 said:


> That's exactly the way I feel but that's been a problem for me-finding breeders who are willing to do this rather than just jumping at the first sale.


Too bad you are having these problems. That hasn't been my experience with any breeder. All of them have chosen the puppy and they do turn down buyers. I think there are usually a lot of buyers waiting for great puppies.


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## PuppyDream (Dec 30, 2018)

Mish17 said:


> You pay for the pet nanny fee plus the airfare for this person?


No, I just pay for the pet nanny fee, which means the puppy is delivered to me at the airport nearest me. I met the nanny at the airport. The Pet Nanny fee includes all expenses necessary for the nanny and the puppy.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

breeders often employ flight attendants as pet nannies. as they are flying anyway, airfare is not an issue - though i don't know if the attendants pay to have a puppy in their permitted luggage; if they do, it's apparently included in the nanny fee.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I haven't been familiar with the nanny service but how wonderful. This would certainly allow you to get a wonderful standard poodle. Area is wonderful and I hope you have spoken to her. Here in New Orleans we also have https://www.nolastandards.com/puppies another wonderful breeder and https://www.cadeaupoodles.com also a wonderful breeder. Candeau has a litter ready to go in June but I don't know the availability. I would jump at a chance to have a pup from anyone of these.


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## Cliff (Oct 10, 2018)

Mish17 said:


> ...the breeder informed me that ... she allowed other people on the list to reserve by color, leaving me with a dog that was basically, the leftover because I hadn't specified a color.



What was wrong with this “leftover” puppy? What specific criterion did he/she not meet ?


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

I never even got a chance to find out anything about the dog. After I questioned the breeder about it she just told me if I didn’t want it then other people did. I never got any videos, never received any information or was told whether it was or wasn’t what we had discussed.


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## Nromley (Jan 5, 2019)

Mish17 - I posted a thread about my search for a new puppy here:
https://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/269327-my-search-new-puppy-lots-info.html

It took me three days to find what I wanted, and that was a mini. There were many nice standards out there with great breeders. I have a listed a few of them in my post.

There is no reason you should be having so much trouble. I think of all the breeders I contacted, Danube Poodles may be a great fit for you. She fulfils most of your requirements, including no black, and I suspect you would agree with her breeding philosophy. You may want to contact her if you would consider a mini.

I would add, many breeders just aren't going to sell you a puppy if they don't like what you say or get a good "feel" from you (not you personally, buyers in general). If they perceive a attitude such as "you are just going to sell a puppy to the highest bidder," you're going to be out-of-luck. I would consider letting the breeder do most of the talking on the first call. Thank them with a follow up email, even when things don't work out; who knows what will happen in the future?

There is no perfect dog out there, and you're going to have to let go of that idea, or settle for a stuffed animal. Good luck.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Mish17, do you think you might be offending reputable breeders in some way when you speak to them? You seem to come on quite strong.

When I was actively breeding standard poodles, I would not sell one to someone I was not able to meet in person unless that person was well known to others I knew and trusted. When you put huge amounts of time and effort to breed and raise puppies, you want them to go to the best homes you can find.

I think you said you live in a mid-Atlantic state. If that is the case, there are many reputable poodle breeders within a 300 mile radius.

So my suggestion is that you think about how you are presenting yourself to a person who has some puppies and see if that is why you are not getting anywhere.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

I don’t believe that is the case. When I post on this forum, it’s often when i am annoyed by something that happened. Otherwise, I’m the most timid, meek person you’d ever meet. Also, before I started looking at Poodles, I could have had Aussies, Collies, Mini Americans from multiple reputable breeders in all different parts of the country. So, I don’t believe it’s me. I had to back out at the last minute on an Aussie. I could have had a beautiful puppy with great temperament but somehow by the time the puppies were ready, I’d gotten hooked on poodles and their intelligence, non shedding coats, and trainability. I thought a Poodle would be a better fit, considering my parents, who live in the same house.


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## Nromley (Jan 5, 2019)

None of the breeders with whom I spoke required me to visit before I got a puppy. They were all willing to choose a puppy for me. I have listed several of them in my other thread.

There are many reputable standard poodle breeders in your area, which sounds close to me (Maryland). You asked about Piccolo's Poodles in another thread. I was in contact with them, and they look like an outstanding breeder. Did you ever contact Evelyn (at Piccolo)? She's wonderfully responsive.

Appears the very nice posters here have been trying to help you for three years. Many breeders will ship. There are lots of non-black standards born every year. It took me a couple days to find three lovely standard puppies that were available now, or within the next few weeks, if I wanted one. Something is wrong here.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

Well, I don't seem to be finding those breeders. Or, I have seen them but there are certain things that are not there, that I won’t compromise on. There are, evidently other things that occur that buyers are not aware of, that I won’t mention here, specifically but breeders are not always up front about everything. I had a very puzzling thing happen recently, related to a certain breeder and I have no explanation for it. Basically, I was told, by a breeder, within the span of a day, first, that she had no puppies, then after referencing a certain person, was told that she did have one. If breeders are playing games like this then how can i get all the blame? I have tried making subsequent contact with that breeder, who I first contacted by email and have not heard back anyway. I tried emailing and calling.


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## Nromley (Jan 5, 2019)

O.k. what was wrong with Piccolo's Poodles? Did you contact them?

You are searching for something that doesn't exist - the perfect poodle and the perfect breeder. You just want a lovely pet. Drop some of your requirements because lots of them are really not important.

If you can't bend enough to compromise, you're never going to find a dog. I've offered all the suggestions I have and this well has run dry.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

Piccolo would have been fine but I was not comfortable with giving a deposit of $1700 to be on a list. I didn’t mention anything like that in my requirements but after losing a lot of money for dogs that I never got, I really would rather not hand over money before knowing if I have a chance of getting a puppy. I eon’t think that’s unreasonable.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

Nromley said:


> None of the breeders with whom I spoke required me to visit before I got a puppy. They were all willing to choose a puppy for me. I have listed several of them in my other thread.
> 
> There are many reputable standard poodle breeders in your area, which sounds close to me (Maryland). You asked about Piccolo's Poodles in another thread. I was in contact with them, and they look like an outstanding breeder. Did you ever contact Evelyn? She's wonderfully responsive.
> 
> Appears the very nice posters here have been trying to help you for three years. Many breeders will ship. There are lots of non-black standards born every year. It took me a couple days to find three lovely standard puppies that were available now, or within the next few weeks, if I wanted one. Something is wrong here.


Evelyn?


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## Nromley (Jan 5, 2019)

Mish17 said:


> Evelyn?


She's the ower of Piccolo's.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

Yes. I poster above that I was not comfortable with the deposit policy.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

:deadhorse:

Do you all feel that you're spinning your wheels here? The more you try, the more resistance you're getting. Did you ever get your car stuck in the mud or deep snow? The more you press on the gas pedal, (aka: go forward pedal) the deeper and more stuck you become? The typical method is to let up on the gas completely. If a light touch and a back and forth motion doesn't work and work soon, then you're hopelessly stuck and you must abandon your car and find an alternate route home. :car:

The op either doesn't _really_ truly want a poodle or is playing some kind of disturbing games here. There is no way someone can't land a perfectly nice poodle after 3 years of trying, at least I never heard of such a thing. Something is very wrong and I doubt that there's a thing anyone here can do about it. 

OP if you do want a poodle and I'm all wrong about all this, then surely you've been given enough ideas and suggestions to get out there and find yourself a poodle. You must know what's causing this problem you're having and how to get it squared away. But to keep dragging this on and eliciting all this attention...well, it's not working to get you a poodle and all the back and forth isn't going to change anything because for one, you're ridiculously particular. You want every facet of the whole process to be precisely how you want it. IT DOESN'T EXIST. You are looking for a mythical, non-existent situation. You clearly aren't going to get a poodle this way. So why don't you just forget it for now? And come back if and when you find your dog somewhere in the future. Then we can all congratulate you and share your joy.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

If you are willing to lose that kind of money, be my guest. I’m not losing any more money to breeders.


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## Nromley (Jan 5, 2019)

You don't hand over a non-refundable deposit until you have made up your mind about the breeder. If they can't provide you with what they agreed, they must refund. No monies are lost. If you get your poodle, you just pay the rest of the balance due.

Not sure why you would lose money with a breeder unless _you_ broke the contract.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

That’s not true. A lot of breeders do NOT give your $ back. Many will only hold it over to the next litter but what if that next litter is too far away? And it can go on indefinitely. If there is no male or female that you wanted in the next litter, then what? I don’t want money tied up indefinitely. If there are puppies and there’s a possibility that there will be a match, as there enough males and females, then fine. Some breeders won’t take deposits just to put you on a list.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Well one last try on this, but I don't know why I am bothering frankly since I think we are on a unicorn hunt here. The deposit for Javelin was less than a week's worth of groceries for two people and she did give the deposit back for the person who was originally first for a boy.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

I think I did contact her or I was given the name of someone she was breeding with and I was told that the breeding didn’t take this time. I could be mistaken but I don’t thin so. There are a few potential leads but I will have to wait a while.


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## Nromley (Jan 5, 2019)

Mish17 said:


> That’s not true. A lot of breeders do NOT give your $ back. Many will only hold it over to the next litter but what if that next litter is too far away? And it can go on indefinitely. If there is no male or female that you wanted in the next litter, then what? I don’t want money tied up indefinitely. If there are puppies and there’s a possibility that there will be a match, as there enough males and females, then fine. Some breeders won’t take deposits just to put you on a list.


I don't understand, "What if that litter is too far away?" Does your breeder travel around the country breeding dogs?

A logical solution would be to chose a breeder that doesn't charge a deposit, or to chose one that agrees to refund if the litter doesn't have a puppy that suits.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Giving a _deposit_ should also come with a contract. The two go together like a hand to a glove. If you give a deposit it means you're very seriously _prepared_ and desirous to purchase a puppy or adult dog at the breeder's written price or whatever the two of you negotiate and that you can abide by other contract items. If you don't like it, don't give a deposit. Yes, to get on the waiting list you give a deposit because you are saying you're serious about this upcoming litter and wanting a puppy. You don't get on a waiting list for some ambiguous, theoretical litter in the future. You must give a deposit to hold a puppy or else the breeder is rightfully so deserving of holding the puppy for someone else. You can't expect to be promised a puppy and not give something in return. 

By accepting the deposit, the breeder must be contractually obliged to provide you with a puppy if the litter is born as expected and all is looking good. If something goes wrong and no puppies are born, they all die, whatever... the contract must state that your deposit _will be returned_. If the breeder will only use it for a future litter and not return it, don't sign and don't give a deposit unless you're willing to wait. I wouldn't sign such an agreement because there might be another litter just around the corner with someone else. 

It may or may not be your choice of puppy. There might not be your choice born in the litter. For instance say you want a white male. You need to talk it over with the breeder on how this will be handled if there isn't a white male. Will you settle for another color or sex? If you're too particular, you probably won't wind up having a meeting of the minds, which is necessary to form a good, satisfying contract for both parties. What can happen if you turn down a puppy, even though it's not your idea of perfect, it's basically been taken off the market from the time you gave your deposit. And now if you don't take it, the breeder risks not finding a home for it soon enough. Not all breeders are having their doors beaten on, even good ones....not all the time. You just read the contract and if you don't like it, ask about a few things or don't go with that breeder. 

You will never find every single thing to your liking. Just accept that. Get over it because at the rate you're going...I don't know how old you are but you're wasting precious time you could be spending with a nice little dog and getting yourself out of this probable depression which has been making you feel negative and down. Get over this obsessive compulsion to control every aspect, every facet of this process of getting the dog and the dog itself. Nothing is perfect, especially not with a living thing. I could not stand to wait 3 years. If I couldn't find a breeder, I'd go to a shelter and find a mutt. To me and to most dog lovers, the most important thing is to spend your life with the companionship of a domestic dog...that animal that evolved along side us for tens of thousands of years. 

To re-cap: If the breeder decides not to let you have a puppy, she is obliged to return your deposit. (unless it is stipulated in the contract otherwise) But it's usual and customary to return the deposit should the breeder back out of the agreement through no fault of yours. IF, on the other hand, you back out of the agreement that you signed...that you wanted a puppy, and there's nothing wrong with the puppies, then you can not take back your deposit. It should be agreed that the breeder must provide a healthy, normal puppy. And you should have 3-4 days to get the puppy checked by your veterinarian. 

If you give a deposit, be it small or large, that will be included as part of the purchase price. Make sure that's also written in the contract. 

With my breeder, I didn't have a contract. Everything I chose to do was on account of meeting him, getting tons of references...positive ones that raved about his dogs and his integrity and good moral character. He also trusted me and liked me. So we did everything with a hand shake. That's not the usual way and I don't necessarily recommend it. But that's how it worked for me.

I don't know why I'm most likely wasting my time. But it seemed there was confusion about deposits and agreements. So..just in case....


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

When I stated the next litter may have been too far away, I meant time-wise. 
I have seen a fee contracts. Some breeders do state that deposits will not be refunded but only transferred to the next litter. Some do not. It’s obviously up to the individual breeder. Another thing is, that since there are no breeders within a reasonable distance, I cannot see how a male, for example, would act in its regular environment. I have been on the fence about whether to consider a male. I have only seen them at shows and, obviously, show dogs are highly trained. I had a 40 lb male dog that simply dod not respond to all the training I did and I started from the time I got him as a puppy. I would do the same thing with a Poodle, starting early. However, there’s a big difference between a 40lb dog and a 24”, 60lb Spoo pulling you down the street. With training, that should not happen. However, is it possible that males don’t think I’m authoritative enough? Possibly. The male dog I had before my last male was extremely obstinate and lazy. I worked with him from puppyhood too. The female i grew up with and the last female (sister of obstinate male) I had were the complete opposite. On the other hand, people say that male Poodles are more eager to please. All i’m stating is that, if I knew I wouldn’t have problems with a male, that would obviously make things easier but there’s no way to know that.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> :deadhorse:
> 
> Do you all feel that you're spinning your wheels here? The more you try, the more resistance you're getting. Did you ever get your car stuck in the mud or deep snow? The more you press on the gas pedal, (aka: go forward pedal) the deeper and more stuck you become? The typical method is to let up on the gas completely. If a light touch and a back and forth motion doesn't work and work soon, then you're hopelessly stuck and you must abandon your car and find an alternate route home. :car:
> 
> ...


This is also the second breed that she has not been able to find a breeder for. She was initially looking for a lagatto but supposedly could also not find a breeder willing to sell her a puppy.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

No. I found a breeder willing to take my money. The fact that she was dishonest had nothing to do with me. By the way, you’re not obligated to read or respond to any of the posts on this forum. Maybe you weren’t aware.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Mysticrealm said:


> This is also the second breed that she has not been able to find a breeder for. She was initially looking for a lagatto but supposedly could also not find a breeder willing to sell her a puppy.



*Well then...obviously this is some kind of troll or some kind of attention seeking thing. Who knows? It's all pretty*


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## Cliff (Oct 10, 2018)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> :deadhorse:
> 
> The op either doesn't _really_ truly want a poodle or is playing some kind of disturbing games here. There is no way someone can't land a perfectly nice poodle after 3 years of trying, at least I never heard of such a thing . . . you're ridiculously particular. You want every facet of the whole process to be precisely how you want it. IT DOESN'T EXIST..


I totally agree. It’s like a self-fulfilling prophecy. You’re puppy “checklist” is totally absurd. What reasonable person factors the diet of a 10 week-old dog when deciding on a puppy? A breeders line is the results of many, many years of incredibly hard work and dedication— blood, sweat, and tears. And you are surprised they ghost you when you let them know your laundry list of expectations, or ask about the diet? 

In every post you position yourself in a victim state of mind - “they won’t sell to me because I can’t travel”, “I was left with the leftover dog”, “they don’t call me back”, “I have to wait for the next welp”, “they don’t want to sell me one”, “I never got any videos”, “breeders aren’t honest people”, and all the other sob stories. Suffering is completely optional! I If you really wanted a pup, I believe any reasonable person would heed the advice of all the members who have gone to great lengths to help you. 

This is an amazing online community who all share a deep passion for our breed, and are eager to help others. Sadly, I agree with Poodlebeguiled — I believe that you are playing some disturbing game on here.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

Mish17 said:


> No. I found a breeder willing to take my money. The fact that she was dishonest had nothing to do with me. By the way, you’re not obligated to read or respond to any of the posts on this forum. Maybe you weren’t aware.


I'm not sure if you are aware or not, but if you post on a public forum, anyone is allowed to respond and offer their thoughts and opinions.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

The title of this thread is "where to find an adult standard." You have been given really great advice on how to get one, but it sounds like getting a poodle from a selection of really excellent breeders isn't in the cards for you right now. It doesn't sound like any other help or advice can be given. Maybe it will work out for you at some point in the future?

I would suggest for you to start looking at rescues. You might not get a poodle, but you could end up with a really great and trainable companion (my poodle came from a rescue- she could be a mix, but if she is, who cares). That's my 2 cents.


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## iwaftsd (Apr 23, 2019)

I have an idea. Some time ago, I saw someone introduce a method for going over a needs/wants list. When I first read it, I thought it was ridiculous - real life wasn't like that! It was so exaggerated! But over time I've come to realize that this exercise is incredibly helpful in identifying what's an actual *need*, or what's really just preference. 

Basically, just go down each item on your list and ask yourself: 

"If there was absolutely no way I could _ever_ get a dog that meets this item; would I not get any dog?" 

So, for example, one of your items is that it can't be black. So let's say every single dog in the world that isn't black goes extinct and all that's left are black dogs. Would you just never ever get a dog? Or would you make that sacrifice and get a black dog? Or another example would be the fewer vaccinations - let's say that every country in the world starts extremely scrutinizing breeders and makes sure that every single dog breeder in the entire world upholds the recommended vax schedule from the AVMA. Would you never ever get any dog? Or would you make that sacrifice and get a dog that was vaccinated per the AVMA recommendations? 

For my own example, I'm interested in the possibility of getting a standard. That's the size I want. If I were looking for a pet, and every standard poodle popped out of existence and all that was left were minis and toys - would I suck it up and get a smaller size? Yep. But take a breed example - if every single soft-haired dog disappeared and all that was left were course and wiry dogs, I couldn't ever get a dog because my sensory system can't tolerate those dogs, and I wouldn't be able to care for them because touching them would be intolerable. So soft fur is an absolute must for me, because I can't get any dog otherwise, no matter what I want. But size would be a strong preference because I'd rather have a small dog than no dog at all forever. 


So look really, really carefully through your list. Imagine for each item that you can either choose to sacrifice that item, or never ever get a dog. 


Once you've gotten your needs/wants list straightened out, make a list again of the breeders you were interested - all of them. Leave out only the ones who were blatantly unethical, like being in it just for the money or being irresponsible breeders. The ones where, even if they met your criteria, you wouldn't go to them anyways. 

Now look at this list of breeders. How many of them meet your actual needs, even if they sacrifice preferences? Again, these are make or break needs where if you can't get these items you'd never ever get a dog again. Trim the breeder list until you only have the ones that meet these uncompromising needs. If you really can't find any breeder that can meet your *needs*, not preferences, then unfortunately it's unlikely that you can get a poodle from a breeder anytime in the foreseeable future. Look into other breeds or rescues instead. Unless the issue is of just not having searched enough, but based on what I've read here I don't think that's the case. 

Then look at your preferences. How many breeders tick off one of your preferences? Maybe add a little 'point' to them for each preference they meet. Then you can prioritize the list of breeders based on who best meets what you're looking for. 

Now look at these breeders and answer why each of them didn't work out. Was it because you'd mistook a preference for a need? For example, you mentioned not wanting to wait for litters - I'd hazard a guess that you'd rather wait for a litter, though, then never ever have a dog again, and if that's the case then that's an example of crossing a breeder off over preference rather than need. 

Basically, you want to look for things that aren't applicable anymore now that you've rearranged your priorities, or possibly things that are fixable, for example if you overwhelmed a breeder like others suggested, maybe reach out to them and apologize, saying that you're still figuring this whole thing out and you hope they'll reconsider whether you'd make a good match for one of their puppies). Another example could be if a breeder said you had to pick up the puppy yourself - did you explain that you'd love to, but cannot fly due to disability but have family happy to pick up the puppy for you? Or did you cross them off when you saw that was a requirement? 

From there you can go through the list of breeders, in order of who meets the most preferences first and going down the list. I really liked Mysticrealm's recommended approach to contact the breeder. If there was a problem, see if you can politely work through it with them. If not, move on to the next one on the list. If you truly run out again, I'd go back to saying it looks like it's not going to work out and I'd be looking into other sources for your next dog. 



I hope this can help at all. 


Oh, and as for finding an adult - finding an adult from a breeder who will meet one's requirements is already a bit of a unicorn to find. It'd be easier to find a puppy. If you're looking to get an adult dog, I second looking at rescues. You might have to poke around a bit, but if you focus on your needs instead of breed, I'm sure you can find an excellent new companion. Same thing if you end up not being able to go through a breeder at all.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I personally think this is a joke to take this long for a poodle, there is more than meets the eye here. I have gotten poodles form 10 weeks to 5 years old within a 2 to 3 month period, whom I trained the way I wanted (which was all the same) and are wonderful dogs. Maybe you should look for something other than a poodle


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Took me a week to find my poodle from health tested titled breeder who ended up bring me pups to choose from as she was on her way and I was on the route. LOL I think Mish probably does not really want a pup/dog, there are just too many excuses each time. Perhaps the "left-over" pup she was offered was the right personality, since she refused it if I were the breeder I would not have returned the deposit and would give her one opportunity with the next litter. Personally I think the breeder "had it" returned the deposit and said to herself enough is enough. Unfortunately we do not live in aq bubble where everything is just perfect, and there are many factors...Life is just that..life.. I wish her good luck but I think she really shouldn't get a dog right now . Sometimes its just not meant to be.


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## asuk (Jan 6, 2017)

mish, i am sorry you are having a huge issue with finding a poodle pup. like others, i dont understand why its hard. i waited 5 months for my red mini from a reputable breeder which is pretty much like finding a unicorn in canada so i am glad it wasnt 3 years. 

i see members here and yourself have dropped some really reputable american breeders and i am finding it strange that you still cant find your pup. i think you may need to look at your wants list and evaluate. sadly, breeders do talk amongst each other too. so if you are giving one a hard time, i think others might think long and hard before selling to you. i think this applies to a lot of things in life as well.

however, i wish you good luck for your future searches.


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## daabor (Jan 31, 2019)

PoodleBeguiled, I loved your response on page 3! <y hooman friends don't need me to pick up their poop either, but, oh, are they so much more demanding than that!

OP, I do sympathize with you. I have not read through this whole thread, so I am not sure if my input will help. I got very discouraged too, in my search for a poodle puppy. Researched many breeders and got very good information from this site. Due to this site, I passed on an adorable minipoo. After researching what the veterans here said, it was the best thing for me to do.'I was on several wait lists and for one reason or another, it didn't happen as quickly as I wanted.

One day, researching obsessively again, poodle breeders, I came across a post from a breeder that I had never heard of within 2 hrs. drive from me that had 1 puppy left.

I spoke with her, liked what she said and was out the door within an hour.

My puppy is not what I originally sought. I saw some ( not all I would have liked) health certification for his parents, but none for him. I did not care about color/ conformation - to a limit, but really cared about temperament.

I did not have a lot of time to decide, as some other people were coming to see him. 

I could tell that the parent dogs were well behaved, not yappy ( barked 2 x when we went to door, but stopped on command, intelligent and nice looking. Puppy seemed well socialized. and, he was so cute, but all pups are.

Sometimes, we just have to take a leap of faith and see where it goes. Sammy didn't hit all my "critical" checkpoints. Most of those were related to forums like this. I tried to find the "best", with all the tests, pedigrees etc.. What I did find WAS the best. Best puppy for me, period. Nothing guarantees anything. It's good to be aware. In my case, it was good to trust this breeder and bring Sammy home. I doubt any puppy would be "better" than Sammy in any way.

Also, even tho Sammy's breeder isn't well recognized, she does seem to be a caring, informative breeder that cares greatly about her dogs. I am somewhat distressed that she does not require a breeding contract, but oh well, I got a great dog.


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