# born black, now with undercoat dark brown in color



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

No a black dog cannot turn brown. Here are a few possibiltiies:

1. She is actually dark brown and looked black. This would only be the case if her points (nose) are brown/liver. 

2. If her points are black, she cannot be, and will never be, brown. This means she could be blue, bad black, or fading/sunburnt black.

Also, poodles do not have undercoats, they have one single coat. Do you mean her coat at the root?

And just a heads up, brown poodles are not called chocolate, they are called brown. 

What were the other colors of the puppies in the litter?


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

oops, sorry  i though its called undercoat 

she has black points.

her littermate is red in color but turning lighter. so i think the puppy might be apricot.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

nixin24 said:


> oops, sorry  i though its called undercoat
> 
> she has black points.
> 
> her littermate is red in color but turning lighter. so i think the puppy might be apricot.


So then the possibility of brown is definitely ruled out. I'm definitely not the expert, but I'd be included to say she could be a blue. Or else a black that will fade. What other colors are in the pedigree? 

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable about colors than me will chime in!!


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

here in the philippines, they call poodles that are chocolate in color with brown coat and nose CHOCOLATE. im not sure why.


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

PUPPY 1 WEEK OLD:










PUPPY 3 WEEKS AGO:









PUPPY'S UNDERCOAT 3 weeks ago:









PUPPY with her littermate  i think the boy might be apricot, not red 









SORRY bout the pictures if they are too large.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Oh, interesting! Yes, I admittedly know nothing about the Phillipine poodle standard.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Oh, those photos do help! We have some red breeders on this forum that should be able to tell you red or apricot for that one puppy. 

As far as the black, I can see how the hair has a brownish hue at the root. I think this probably means that the puppy could end up being a fading black. The pup looks too dark to be blue to me, but again, I'm not the expert! I am interested to hear what others have to say.


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

thanks for the answers! 

Poodle colors are so tricky to distinguish.


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## poodlesplease (Sep 6, 2011)

I have no really experience with this, but I did look at some 12 week old blue puppies a few months back and my inexperienced eye would have called them black, but the breeder said they would be blue. They were very inky black at that stage.


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

I still appreciate you clearing to me that she's not brown 

for days I've been guessing whether the puppy will be brown (chocolate) or blue


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

nixin24 said:


> I still appreciate you clearing to me that she's not brown
> 
> for days I've been guessing whether the puppy will be brown (chocolate) or blue


That's about the only thing I can tell you for certain!  A dog with a black nose can genetically only be white/cream/apricot/red/blue/silver/black. 

A brown will always have brown/liver pigment.

It is also not uncommon for some people who own blues to spend the first few years of the dogs life thinking it is a dark brown dog! Of course, knowing that a brown dog can only have liver pigment would rule this possibility out.


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## catsaqqara (May 20, 2011)

Blue starts out as black and fades to a gray color, they are said to have a brownish hue growing up. Blue also has a lighter muzzle around the nose when shaved, at least in the standards.
Fading black or bad black is black with white hairs mixed in. Though I think in blues there can be some white hairs mixed in with the overall gray color.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

I swore Elphie was brown...even her pigment seemed to be a SUPER dark brown as a puppy, but as she has matured her pigment has darkened while her coat has evened out into a dark brown and is FINALLY starting to turn blue 
I've been tempted several times to shave her completely down to see what's hiding under all that hair >.>

If I were to guess what colour your pup is I'd say it will be a black that fades or gets sunburned easily (hair damaged by the sun turning brownish) instead of the inky black
but thats not to say by the time it's 2 it could be a blue...blues confuse me to know end v.v;

And I would say that the littermate is a an apricot, that will probably stay an apricot. From what I've been told and what I'm seeing if an apricot puppy is born with an almost Weimaraner hue to their coats they almost always darken into a deep apricot or red (Judy Winter has a boy that went from a nice even LIGHT apricot to a DEEP red by the time he was 2 really nice boy from the photos I've seen)


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_It does look like she is a blue. That is the way they start clearing and with brown overtones, it definitely would indicate a blue rather than a silver. All silver, blue and black puppies are born black. How they clear will determine which of those three colors they will be. A good black will not have any clearing at all or any odd white hairs that would indicate a bad black.

Hope this was helpful.

I didn't know that brown's were called chocolate in other countries._


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I'm pretty sure browns are called browns everywhere, it's normally BYB and BYB associates that call them chocolates.


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

brown and chocolate here is actually different here.

im no expert so i cant explain why they call it like that  haha


when can i shave her muzzle?


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

how can a person tell if a dog is a bad black and a fading black?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

What is the difference between brown and chocolate?


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

a brown is a chocolate dog with black nose and pads.
while the chocolate is a dog choco in color with liver nose and pads.


im not really sure. but 
here brown and choco seems to be different


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

nixin24 said:


> a brown is a chocolate dog with black nose and pads.
> while the chocolate is a dog choco in color with liver nose and pads.
> 
> 
> ...


It is genetically impossible to have a brown poodle with a black nose..


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## catsaqqara (May 20, 2011)

I think I used "fading black" wrong in my post.


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

I shaved her snout a while ago.
Now I know she's not gonna be a silver or blue.

I guess she's a bad black


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

In this picture she's very black because of the flash.


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

A blue doesn't usually start to clear until its second year, so the puppy may be blue. Young blues look off-black or brownish. Did the puppy have white hair between her paw pads when she was born? She could possibly be sable or brindle, where the hairs are tipped with a darker colour and gradually change as they grow out, but I think the effect is usually more dramatic by this age. What makes bad black as I understand is 'grizzle' -- white hairs in the coat that accumulate with age. I don't think the puppy would show them this young.

Brown poodles can't have black noses. Black and brown are both caused by a dark pigment called eumelanin, and in browns a recessive gene makes it appear brown instead of black. This affects the whole dog and not just its coat, so a brown dog's points will always be brown. Perhaps you are thinking of red, which can sometimes be dark enough to look light brown, and should preferably come with a black nose.


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

When she was born, she actually had white hairs in the pads.
I though those were mismarks.


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

I'll try to take a picture of her when it's sunny.
the brown in her roots are starting to show.

She looks very black in the picture because of the flash.


I don't think she's a sable 

I've been reading a lot of articles about black vs. blues.
I read that some blues are born black with white/silver hairs in the pads.


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

I have also read a post here in poodleforum.com or maybe in another site:

"Blues usually come from lines that have black, brown, silver and white in the pedigree. Doesnt matter how much of that combination there is, but all the colour will make up a blue. Thats why you have so many bad blues around that I would prefer to call a dirty or muddy black."


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

nixin24 said:


> I shaved her snout a while ago.
> Now I know she's not gonna be a silver or blue.
> 
> I guess she's a bad black


Whatever color she is---she's adorable.


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

A poodle lover friend of mine owns this dog.
She's a bit unsure what her color is.


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

Rowan said:


> Whatever color she is---she's adorable.


THANKS! your poodles are lovely too!


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

nixin24 said:


> A poodle lover friend of mine owns this dog.
> She's a bit unsure what her color is.


She looks like a dark blue who hasn't finished clearing to me, but it looks as though there is something wrong with her coat/skin that may confuse the matter. I think your friend should consult a vet if she hasn't already.

Dark puppies with white hairs between their paw pads when they are born are clearing colours. As the puppy was born black, this means she is either silver or blue. If her face has not started to turn silver by 8 weeks old, she is most probably blue. Most blue poodles are thought to be caused by clearing genes acting on a black coat. Blue poodles can appear in a litter if a parent is silver or blue, or a brown or apricot colour that has cleared, or a white carrying a clearing gene.


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

im pretty sure the poodle is in its best! 
ill try to post a picture of the poodle when it was less than a year old.


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

This was her poodle when she was less than a year old:










then this is her now:


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I'd say she's brindle  uncommon color, but it does occur.


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

Fluffyspoos said:


> I'd say she's brindle  uncommon color, but it does occur.


Uhmm.. Are there other kinds of brindle? or it's just brindle?
(sorry, I'm not aware of the color  )

Btw, My black puppy was born black with white hairs in the pads.
Her snout is not light for a silver. So hopefully, she might be a blue


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Well I've seen black and apricot brindle, which looks like this dog, then silver and black brindle, and both in parti/phantom patterns.


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Well I've seen black and apricot brindle, which looks like this dog, then silver and black brindle, and both in parti/phantom patterns.


Thanks! I'll tell her that.

Finally found pictures of her poodle when it was still a puppy.




















I never knew her coat can change to brindle 
I though her dog was blue


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

I have a Sable poodle--see the one in the middle of my Sig below. He was born solid black, but the roots were a different story. As his hair grew out, it turned into a "calico cat" pattern. Here's a pic of him at approx 10 weeks of age. You can see how much he's changed (Sig pic is current color). 

Here's a good link comparing Sable to Brindle, with pictures: http://arpeggiopoodles.tripod.com/poodlecoatcolorsbrindleandsable.html

OMFG! I just found pictures of MY POODLE (Pippin) on someone's website: http://moondancestandardpoodles.pic...eandbrindlepoodlepictures?cr=3&linkvar=000044


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

Rowan said:


> I have a Sable poodle--see the one in the middle of my Sig below. He was born solid black, but the roots were a different story. As his hair grew out, it turned into a "calico cat" pattern. Here's a pic of him at approx 10 weeks of age. You can see how much he's changed (Sig pic is current color).



such a cute poodle you have there! 

Uhm, i have question 

What causes a black to fade?
There was this poodle breeder
with a black poodle with shades of brown
and i think the poodle is 2 years old already.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

nixin24 said:


> such a cute poodle you have there!
> 
> Uhm, i have question
> 
> ...


Thank you! 
I'm no color expert, but here are two discussions on that very topic:
http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/6191-bad-black-vs-blue.html
http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/4800-bad-blacks.html

And a link to a page about Blacks v. Blues:
POODLE COAT COLORS: BLUE & BLACK


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

Rowan said:


> OMFG! I just found pictures of MY POODLE (Pippin) on someone's website: MoondanceStandardPoodles


If this is a picture you took and they used it without your permission, this is not on. :-( Pictures you took are your intellectual property.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

zyrcona said:


> If this is a picture you took and they used it without your permission, this is not on. :-( Pictures you took are your intellectual property.


The puppy picture was taken by my breeder on her property. The adult picture was taken by me but given to my breeder. It just took me by surprise! LOL


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

nixin24 said:


> I never knew her coat can change to brindle
> I though her dog was blue


I think brindles look different from blacks at birth and usually look clearly brindle after a few days. Brindle is usually streaky or stripy, although it is less obvious on a longer coat. This looks kind of patchy. I thought the lighter spots on the first photograph were bald areas, no offence.


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

nixin24 said:


> with a black poodle with shades of brown


Do you have a picture of this?


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

nixin24 said:


> such a cute poodle you have there!
> 
> Uhm, i have question
> 
> ...


I *suspect*, havent had enough dogs to know for sure, that black poodle with browning ends or seem easily sunburnt are carriers for brown. If you have them in pattern like a continental the longer hair will have a reddish brown cast in the sun, but the shaved areas that are growing out are obviously black.


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## Marcie (Aug 2, 2011)

Rowan said:


> Whatever color she is---she's adorable.


I agree, how can anything that cute be labeled "bad" If she was purple she would still be adorable!


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I don't pretend to know alot about poodle colors, but I was told that my poodle is a blue by the breeder. She stayed black until she was 2 years old. She does not look brown in anyway. She is 7 now and very dark, but does have grey hairs in her coat. I love that poodles come in all the colors and changing colors. That's part of the fun. There is no " bad color" in my eyes.


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

zyrcona said:


> Do you have a picture of this?



I'll try to look for the picture 
I know its in our group page


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

Marcie said:


> I agree, how can anything that cute be labeled "bad" If she was purple she would still be adorable!


Hahaha, It's just that I though her color was a bad black


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

Ladyscarletthawk said:


> I *suspect*, havent had enough dogs to know for sure, that black poodle with browning ends or seem easily sunburnt are carriers for brown. If you have them in pattern like a continental the longer hair will have a reddish brown cast in the sun, but the shaved areas that are growing out are obviously black.


Her dog was black with brown.
Is there such thing as "BLACK CHOCO" or "BLACK BROWN"?


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

here is a picture of the poodle.










The owner of this dog actually
registered here in poodleforum.com
last night.


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## Jkline65 (Feb 23, 2011)

*blue*

Maggie is a blue. She was born a jet inky black..she almost looked wet. Then she turned brown and by 4 years old she was blue. She was as brown as bron could be for a year or so. Nothing has changed since she "cleared" to blue. She's been the same color for the last 4 1/2 years now. My friend from college who saw her when she was "brown" and saw her a few months ago thought it was a different dog.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

nixin24 said:


> Her dog was black with brown.
> Is there such thing as "BLACK CHOCO" or "BLACK BROWN"?


I said it before and I'll say it again....No. There is brown. There is black. This black brown or black chocolate talk is complete nonsense. Again, if a dog with black points looks brown, its NOT BROWN. NOT "black choco" or "black brown". Its a bad black, faded black, sunburnt black (and please, let's not analyze what each if these terms mean. They are pretty interchangeable to mean NOT INKY BLACK.). OR maybe it's a BLUE!

Capisce?


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I said it before and I'll say it again....No. There is brown. There is black. This black brown or black chocolate talk is complete nonsense. Again, if a dog with black points looks brown, its NOT BROWN. NOT "black choco" or "black brown". Its a bad black, faded black, sunburnt black (and please, let's not analyze what each if these terms mean. They are pretty interchangeable to mean NOT INKY BLACK.). OR maybe it's a BLUE!
> 
> Capisce?


Ugh. Sorry. 
I get confused with poodle colors since I'm not 
an expert. I only had one poodle in my life.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I said it before and I'll say it again....No. There is brown. There is black. This black brown or black chocolate talk is complete nonsense. Again, if a dog with black points looks brown, its NOT BROWN. NOT "black choco" or "black brown". Its a bad black, faded black, sunburnt black (and please, let's not analyze what each if these terms mean. They are pretty interchangeable to mean NOT INKY BLACK.). OR maybe it's a BLUE!
> 
> Capisce?


Lol CM <3 
I was reading this website today and it made me think of you for some reason...enjoy trying to derive the reasoning behind this!!

Marj o Poodles



> Bobby brings a spring in his step and a none fading brown gene into my program. He is such an athlete always walking around on two legs like a dancing bear.


(Bobby is a red with liver pigment for those that don't click on the link...:afraid


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

nixin24 said:


> Ugh. Sorry.
> I get confused with poodle colors since I'm not
> an expert. I only had one poodle in my life.


It's okay! I'm not trying to be rude.  I've got some dry humor to me


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Keithsomething said:


> Lol CM <3
> I was reading this website today and it made me think of you for some reason...enjoy trying to derive the reasoning behind this!!
> 
> Marj o Poodles
> ...



Ha! Okay, and how do they know this dog has a nonfading brown gene? Is there such a thing? :act-up:


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Ha! Okay, and how do they know this dog has a nonfading brown gene? Is there such a thing? :act-up:


All reds have the fading gene...I've seen some dark adults but they all fade at some point in their lives. What confuses me is how is a RED going to produce non-fading BROWNS?! When red's and browns are bred together they produce black XDD


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Keithsomething said:


> All reds have the fading gene...I've seen some dark adults but they all fade at some point in their lives. What confuses me is how is a RED going to produce non-fading BROWNS?! When red's and browns are bred together they produce black XDD


So true! Ha!:2in1::argh::afraid:


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## jeff0208 (Dec 8, 2011)

nixin24 said:


> here is a picture of the poodle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These are my dogs ^_^ thanks nixin for taking time posting it.
I have doubts about the color of my dog.
In this photo I used flash to give bright light to the dogs but it seems gave different identity for my black dog.

In person the black poodle has black nose. Her skin seems bluish but I can't really tell since I am not quite good looking at skin colors, and I haven't seen blue dogs even on any breeds. I can't also tell if it's silver I've never had one either.

Here in the Philippines we are not quite good at giving colors so most of the breeders here used their own will to register the poodles.
Using "black choco" "choco brown" "choco black" and unfortunately PCCI (Philippine Canine Club Incorporated) doesn't seem to have any idea on correct color registration.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Keithsomething said:


> Lol CM <3
> I was reading this website today and it made me think of you for some reason...enjoy trying to derive the reasoning behind this!!
> 
> Marj o Poodles
> ...



Proof why you don't breed browns to colors :| Why do people DO this?! Then spew some bs like it produces non-fading browns? Come ooon. Like the faded browns look bad?! Yeah right, I'm starting to prefer to brown dilutes over the dark ones.

At least they're 'real.'


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Proof why you don't breed browns to colors :| Why do people DO this?! Then spew some bs like it produces non-fading browns? Come ooon. Like the faded browns look bad?! Yeah right, I'm starting to prefer to brown dilutes over the dark ones.
> 
> At least they're 'real.'


I completely agree...I just don't understand why people say these things with such cnvicition behind it :/ it makes unsuspecting buyers fall fmor it and believe that it's a real thing!


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

I MIGHT AS WELL STOP ASKING QUESTIONS! 

I don't want any fight in this thread.
I'll just register her as black to be safe.

BTW, I posted new pictures of her in my other thread.


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## SarainPA (Nov 18, 2011)

I had bred 2 litters years ago that I was breeding for true blues. Out of 10 pups, 8 were blue. You could see the color when I shaved their muzzles at 6 weeks. They cleared the same way a silver does - blue from the feet up and face back. At the same time, a friend had a litter of silvers...it was interesting to see the difference from that early age.

To me, a "poor black" is a black that grizzles a lot... many black show dogs when you see them after being retired are not nearly as inky black as they were in the ring. Gotta love Clairol!!! .....sigh....

Color to breed for is fun...but I sure love them no matter what color they can be called!


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## EmilyK (Mar 26, 2011)

nixin24 said:


> I MIGHT AS WELL STOP ASKING QUESTIONS!
> 
> I don't want any fight in this thread.
> I'll just register her as black to be safe.
> ...


I hope this will help - 

I bought a black standard poodle at about 9 weeks old. He had had his first grooming and his nose was black as could be. He had a couple of silver brothers that had started black, but their faces were clearly silver at that first groom.

A couple weeks later, I noticed that he had some gray at the end of his nose as the hair was growing in. I shaved again, and again he looked totally black. However, I was suspecting he was a blue (although I'd already registered him as a black). Now, he's 9 months old, has more and more gray on his snout, and is getting some silver streaks in his ears. Also, his belly looks like there is dark, reddish brown in it. 

Clearly, I have a blue (and am delighted, although when I told the breeder, he was a bit concerned...) but I wasn't able to tell until later. Your situation sounds a lot like mine so my guess is that you have a blue.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I think you have a black. The soft coat underneath in a puppy coat is often a different color. But I saw the pictures of the pups shaved muzzle & that is black & her paws are black & it seems the brown is coming out in the tips. This has happened with my Black Abstract as well. I can send you some pictures if you would like. Mine though does have a "brownish" hue to her muzzzle & it is strange since she has a solid black right around her nose & then an invert Y that is brownish cast & then back to black again. She is almost a year & when next to my other 2 blacks is black. She also gets a brownish hue when her coat is grown out & needs to be clipped she is back to a rich black. I will post a picture of her soon since she needs a grooming. Aren't poodles such fun?


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## Anntig (Jun 9, 2010)

Thought you might be interested in this, this is Roxy, as a pup she showed no indication of being a blue, at ten months she was starting to look like a bad black with a reddish tinge to her coat, at 18 months she started to lighten with distinct lighter patches on her flanks and tail, by 2 1/2 she finally looked like a blue and that is the colour she has stayed (she's now six)


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

Wow that is amazing & who would have thought. I will have to see with Louisa. Her sire side for 4 generations is all Black, Blue & Silver. Back 5 generations on sire side is 1 white & 1 brown. Louisa's Dam is a Black & white parti & sire is a a clearing Blue but quite ugly since he has so many different colors going on & he might even have the possiblity of phantom type markings but reverse. He is a weird color but he is still young but I predict Blue once cleared. Louisa though is different from him & still very black but does have a brownish tint to the ends of her coat as well as the Y on her muzzle. Oddly enough I found a really good picture of a breeder placing 2 of her dogs & 1 of the black dogs had the exact same "marking" as Louisa on the face. Weird with the Poodle colors & the clearing of sorts. I guess time will tell. Thanks for the Photo's.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

3dogs said:


> I think you have a black. The soft coat underneath in a puppy coat is often a different color. But I saw the pictures of the pups shaved muzzle & that is black & her paws are black & it seems the brown is coming out in the tips. This has happened with my Black Abstract as well. I can send you some pictures if you would like. Mine though does have a "brownish" hue to her muzzzle & it is strange since she has a solid black right around her nose & then an invert Y that is brownish cast & then back to black again. She is almost a year & when next to my other 2 blacks is black. She also gets a brownish hue when her coat is grown out & needs to be clipped she is back to a rich black. I will post a picture of her soon since she needs a grooming. Aren't poodles such fun?


Curious.. Do you know if there any brown breeding in her pedigree? What colors are in her pedigree?


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

Sire side 4 generations is 15 dogs. 9 Blacks, 4 Silvers, 1 Brown (4th gen), 1 white (4th gen)

Dam side 4 generations 15 dos- 2 Black & White Partis ( 1 is the Dam), 4 blacks, 4 Whites, 3 Apricots, 1 Cream, 1 Brown & White Parti

Then again since most of us register our dogs at a young age how many Blacks stayed Black & how many turned Blue. Was the Cream a Cream or a White & are the Whites White or are they Cream. Same with the Apricots are they really that or are they Creams? 
I find the Parti gene interesting since there is a Blk & White Parti bred to a Brown & White Part & then solid to solid breedings & then the Dam is Blk & White Parti.

I will go to that other website & find the really good picture of the "mask" type marking.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

o.k I found the website that has a Black 2 year old that has the "brownish" Y on the face. Notice the dark black right around the nose & then it is Brownish up the nose ridge, either side of the muzzle & almost a lighter hue over the eyes. This dog represents the most of what my dog Louisa's coloration is on the face,

Puppies and Adults - Hardt Poodles

scroll towards the bottom of the page where there are 3 pictures of the female.


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

BTW GUYS! I'm gonna post more pictures now


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

Birthdate is October 23, 2011


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

sorry if she looks dirty  she just had her shot last week.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

3dogs said:


> o.k I found the website that has a Black 2 year old that has the "brownish" Y on the face. Notice the dark black right around the nose & then it is Brownish up the nose ridge, either side of the muzzle & almost a lighter hue over the eyes. This dog represents the most of what my dog Louisa's coloration is on the face,
> 
> Puppies and Adults - Hardt Poodles
> 
> scroll towards the bottom of the page where there are 3 pictures of the female.


_On my computer screen, that color appears to be blue. She looks like she has blued out. I can see the brown coloring on the bracelets that is common to see in a blue. She is definitely not a solid black. If she is black; she is a bad black._


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

nixin24 said:


> sorry if she looks dirty  she just had her shot last week.


_The best light to take a photo of her in is outside in natural daylight without direct sun. The flash gives the coat the wrong color as it washes it out. The others are too dark thus making her look very black. If you could get a photo outside it would be easier to see what her true color is. _


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)

I'll try to take a better picture when it stops raining  
hope the weather tomorrow is good.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Black is black. Blue is blue. A bad black is still a black.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I will have to go take a look at the bracelets since I was looking at the face with the Brownish "Y" on the muzzle. I thought a "bad black" was one that has white hairs all over the palce therefore making the dog look "blue" or a "softer black". The color issue is interesting.


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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)




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## nixin24 (Dec 1, 2011)




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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Mind you I dont have a lot of experience in this area, BUT I have observed and theorized that blacks that carry the brown gene look like this, with the exception of the white chin. I could be wrong and it could be coincidence, but it would be interesting to do a color gene test for fun..


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