# Question about stillborn puppies?



## asuk (Jan 6, 2017)

I feel if you want a red mini, then you should find a red mini breeder. Not a mini breeder who MAY have red from a litter. Even if dog #2 has 2 puppies and say 1 red and 1 black, what if the red temperament/drive doesn't suit you, will you say yes to the black or wait for a red that will fit your needs/wants? Colour is the last thing to consider, priority would be health tested, temperament and titled. but if you are dead set on a red mini, I'd look specifically for a red mini breeder.


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## Honeymochi (Jun 17, 2018)

asuk said:


> I feel if you want a red mini, then you should find a red mini breeder. Not a mini breeder who MAY have red from a litter. Even if dog #2 has 2 puppies and say 1 red and 1 black, what if the red temperament/drive doesn't suit you, will you say yes to the black or wait for a red that will fit your needs/wants? Colour is the last thing to consider, priority would be health tested, temperament and titled. but if you are dead set on a red mini, I'd look specifically for a red mini breeder.


Mom is apricot and the dad is red so thats all I know genetically., I figure she could technically have all apricots. How early do you know what a dogs temperament and behavior will be? I just feel like by 8-12 weeks isnt always accurate, I know my current dog is nothing now how she was when she was a puppy. I ideally want to stay with this breeder since she is reputable and close to my location, but if this doesn't work out I will look for new possibilities.

Thanks for your feedback!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I agree with asuk and also think that color should be one of the lowest attributes you are looking for. You can tell a lot about the core temperament (friendliness, confidence, adaptability, biddability) in young puppies. You want good character early so you can develop good adult character. Young pups who are skittish, fearful and such are likely to remain that way or get worse.


As to still births, since the dam you are interested in was a first time mom perhaps she had whelping problems that would not be an issue in the future (think about it ladies if you have had several children each subsequent birth was probably easier than the first). I am not a breeder though, so don't hold me to that idea.


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## Honeymochi (Jun 17, 2018)

lily cd re said:


> I agree with asuk and also think that color should be one of the lowest attributes you are looking for. You can tell a lot about the core temperament (friendliness, confidence, adaptability, biddability) in young puppies. You want good character early so you can develop good adult character. Young pups who are skittish, fearful and such are likely to remain that way or get worse.
> 
> 
> As to still births, since the dam you are interested in was a first time mom perhaps she had whelping problems that would not be an issue in the future (think about it ladies if you have had several children each subsequent birth was probably easier than the first). I am not a breeder though, so don't hold me to that idea.


Thank you for the advice! I was hoping that as well and that her second pregnancy would be better but I wasn't sure if it would be the same for dogs.

That's interesting about the personalities, I'm wondering how the puppy selection process will be since I've never adopted from a breeder before. I figured once they're born they're sorted? (like male A, female B, Male C, Male D) and you just claimed Male C for example. Do you normally wait until they're older to claim dogs with breeders? I know we get a home visit at 4 wks and again at 8wks if we'd like to. Just obviously if you chose a puppy while they're a week old you wouldn't know about how the puppys personality is yet.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Do you want to share who this breeder is so we can give you feedback? I also know of a couple of great red mini breeders.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

For Javelin I had given the breeder a thorough description of what I was looking for in a puppy (male and with good drives for performance sports, but not too pushy and likely to make social challenges to Lily). His litter was all black so color was a non-issue. Initially I was 2nd on the list for a male, but then the person who was first had to back out because her older dog was diagnosed with cancer and she wanted to tend to his health. The breeder kept my wishes in mind and had one boy who she thought would be a good match for me, but then he started challenging his sisters so we decided together that he wasn't quite right. I visited them when they were about 6 1/2-7 weeks old and then BF and I both went about a week later and spent time with them. It took us a couple of hours of hanging around with the boys and several rounds of voting to decide on the pup we brought home a couple of weeks later.


Four weeks sounds early to see pups. Moms are usually still somewhat protective of them and their little personalities are just starting to appear. If you can push that first visit closer to 5-6 weeks that would be more revealing about the pup personalities.


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## asuk (Jan 6, 2017)

I didn't get to pick, the litter was all red since we picked a red mini breeder so colour is a non issue, my husband wanted a red mini female, we ended up with a red mini male. The breeder picked for us and boy she picked right! Like Catherine, I told her what I wanted. Do you know more about the parents? I agree some of the members here know great breeders and can give you feedback.


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## Honeymochi (Jun 17, 2018)

zooeysmom said:


> Do you want to share who this breeder is so we can give you feedback? I also know of a couple of great red mini breeders.


Thanks for the advice everyone! Ill PM you her website her in a few, im not sure I want to put this person on blast just incase but i do want to hear your advice please!


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Be aware that if Mom is apricot and dad is red, you can choose a dark red puppy and end up with a light apricot. This is Noelle. Mom was apricot, and dad red. If you have your heart set on a dark red poodle, you might end up with an apricot. Not that apricots don't rock. Check out Noelle. Yes, this is the same dog.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Click I had forgotten how dark Noelle was as a baby dog. Reds, browns and apricots are colors that have a lot of facets to them in poodles, ranges of pup colors, fading, etc. All pretty and all interesting, but Yes if I had really really wanted red and ended up with apricot I'd be a little disappointed.


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## Honeymochi (Jun 17, 2018)

Click-N-Treat said:


> Be aware that if Mom is apricot and dad is red, you can choose a dark red puppy and end up with a light apricot. This is Noelle. Mom was apricot, and dad red. If you have your heart set on a dark red poodle, you might end up with an apricot. Not that apricots don't rock. Check out Noelle. Yes, this is the same dog.



Omg thats crazy!!! Noelle is so cute! How old are they when they change colors and with that parent set up is there a way to tell what the final coat color will be?


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Noelle's color faded gradually over her first two years. At one, she was still obviously red, by two she was obviously looking more like an apricot. Her mother was light cream with barely any apricot on the tips of her ears, so I was prepared for Noelle's color to change dramatically. She is registered as a red. So, I guess she would still be considered a very light red. In certain lighting her coat has red overtones and not gold. 

Meet the dog's mother and father. If you can, see pictures of some of their adult offspring. That will give you some idea of if the puppies hold their color. It didn't matter to me. I like Noelle just the way she is.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Send a PM to Zooeysmom. I always like to look up breeders she recommends or follow her breeder links. A trusted source Remember, every color fades, except white.


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