# Another poodle !



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

So I been thinking that I want my own poodle now ! so maybe when Enzo turns 6 months I will consider getting my own


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## tannerokeefe (Dec 14, 2008)

Is Enzo not yours??


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## mercymoon (Aug 29, 2008)

tannerokeefe said:


> Is Enzo not yours??


That's what I was thinking....:tongue:


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Technically he is my sister’s dog she paid for him etc…. I train and play with him lol


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> Technically he is my sister’s dog she paid for him etc…. I train and play with him lol


oh - it would be nice to get your own and Enzo can play with it!


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## tannerokeefe (Dec 14, 2008)

you def have to get your own!!


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

I agree!!


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

I agree as well. Plus soon your sister will be dressing Enzo up in pink clothes. lol You can't take that! lol


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> I agree as well. Plus soon your sister will be dressing Enzo up in pink clothes. lol You can't take that! lol


LOL I wanted to get another red poodle but I am not too fawn of the fact they fade to a apricot color  . So maybe a silver dog ? or black dog. if i get silver at least i expect him or her to get lighter lol Or maybe a parti poodle


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## IPP (Nov 29, 2008)

Did you see that parti male needing a home on another thread? WOW talk about a looker! 

http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=12798840

I bet its too far for you though...but I think a nice parti-colored standard is a GREAT idea!

I am bit "partial" to the parti-colored poodles though...so I guess you have to ignore my opinion as I am a bit biased on color! LOL

I don't think Enzo will fade as much as you think...he has the black points and if he has a strong red background then I bet he will stay a nice deep red. I have a female toy red with dark chocolate points and she has stayed a much darker red than I could have ever hoped! I think you will be surprised! I have seen some VERY dark adult standard poodles and even at 4+ yrs old I have seen them stay pretty dark!


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> LOL I wanted to get another red poodle but I am not too fawn of the fact they fade to a apricot color  . So maybe a silver dog ? or black dog. if i get silver at least i expect him or her to get lighter lol Or maybe a parti poodle


Roxy, not all of them fade. The fading is caused by a dd ressessive dilute gene and if the dog carries a Dd or a DD which is dominant and can't fade you will have a very nice red dog forever. I plan on having my puppies tested for the dilute gene when they are born, that way i know.


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## shaneyraepage (Oct 18, 2008)

I want another poodle  Wish I had the time. Chief would love a playmate. My mom just had poodle puppies and I really want one.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> Roxy, not all of them fade. The fading is caused by a dd ressessive dilute gene and if the dog carries a Dd or a DD which is dominant and can't fade you will have a very nice red dog forever. I plan on having my puppies tested for the dilute gene when they are born, that way i know.


What breeder has true reds ? I asked a bunch of red standard breeders and they where rude saying " good luck finding a red that does not fade "


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## IPP (Nov 29, 2008)

If you are looking for a breeder with red standards that stay red, just look at the parents. A good breeder will not breed until the dogs are done with all testing, which is about 2 yrs old. A true red dog will have faded little by the time they are 2 yrs old...so if you find a breeder who has nice red adult standards and they are tested and over 2 yrs old...that breed will have nice red puppies that stay red.

Of course if you breed a red to a black you can get red puppies that have the potential to stay pretty red. Just ask to see a pedigree on the black dog to see if its mostly black and red with little cream and white in it. Most good breeders are proud to show off their dogs pedigree!


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## gwtwmum2 (Sep 14, 2008)

Check out this breeder: http://www.bijoupoodles.com/History.html This page tells her story
http://www.bijoupoodles.com/Dogs.html This shows the dogs they have.
She breeds beautiful reds and browns. I could never afford her but BOY would I love one of her dogs. She clearly has studied hard to produce wonderful colors. I just drool over her brown dogs.


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

Take a look at the bottom pictures of Trigger on this page. 
http://www.harmonyhuntingpudels.com/Trigger.html
My puppies will be this color, and should stay that color.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

How tall is Paris ? I noticed that Trigger is only 23 inches for a male. Hopefully Paris has some height on her so you don't have to worry about getting small standard's. Either way its ok, but if Paris is only 23 inches too then your going to get small standard's. You'll just have to breed out to a larger dog when you breed her puppy later to bring the size back.


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

Paris is 24 inches at the shoulder, but 31 inches at the top of her head. She has a beautiful neck.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

I been to but she is asking way too much for her puppies , I also looked over her dogs and I don't think they stayed that color I have emailed her and got no reply. I also read that she does not show in AKC or CKC because of the grooming. IMO that is a poor excuse not to show because she can pay a groomer to groom her dogs especially if she is charging 3k for them.

What I am finding that most of these Red breeders are posting pics of their dogs as pups and when they are young. I have not seen any passed 2 years or older with a red coat that stays.

I am going to be calling Terry Farley next week , I chatted with him through email and he seems so nice. I will see what he says about them fading.


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## IPP (Nov 29, 2008)

I guess I really lucked out with Casey...I know she doesn't have papers, which I am not sure I would do with anyway. 

I don't plan to show her, so if she is not show quality then I don't care. 

I don't plan to breed her, since I can't show her and will never know if she has qualities besides a great personality to pass on to her offspring.

I know I could have her tested enough to see if her body is physically sound enough...but if Chicky Chat is going to have such fabulous reds and apricots here in Indiana I see no reason to give her any competition! 

Although if she keeps a male from her trigger litter I might be tempted to have her tested knowing there is a nice quality male within 300 miles from me that is RED with a RED background. Hmmmm I guess it would just make more sense to just save up my money and hope she has another litter from Trigger in the next couple of years, although a litter of red and apricots running around the house would be cute as heck!

I know that Casey is a bot orangey more than the deep red and she will likely lighten more with age. I just hope that she doesn't turn chocolate or silver beige like I have seen some 2 yr old dogs do that were supposed to be red! We have a rescue male that was dark red as a pup, then lightened to chocolate/silver beige now at 2 yrs old...wild. I never saw his parents, but the paperwork says they were both red...but I bet they were also young dogs that had not faded yet. To me its more about the personality, but if red is what you want then I totally understand when you are willing to search for one. We had to go all the way to TN to find a true red female toy poodle, and we paid out the nose and that was for just CKC papers! We didn't get her to breed or show, so AKC papers were not needed in our opinion, besides that would have cost us alot more! I understand that people don't want the bloodlines getting out and therefore charge more for fully registered dogs, but the difference was SO much it was a little like they were more looking for the money. Its not like she had pups for sale on spay/neuter contracts, just more money for "better" paperwork. If I would have gotten a spayed puppy along with limited AKC papers I would have paid her more, but she wasn't interested in doing that.

I know a long time ago there was someone in Indiana that had nice reds, and her males name was Tigger...if I can find out more about her dogs or if she is still breeding I will pm you the info. I know she sent me some pics of Tigger as like a 14 month old and he was RED RED RED...I can't even remember her name or other info, but I liked Tigger so much the name stuck in my mind. When I saw the name "Trigger" it made me think of him!


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## gwtwmum2 (Sep 14, 2008)

Chicky Chat - Paris is Preston's brother right? 
Roxy if you did get another puppy that was black or silver you should get one from Preston's human mama (Michelle Able). Honestly if I ever get another spoo, I believe I'll save up and buy from her. They take SUCH good care of their puppies and have them pretty much potty trained by the time they come with you. She takes all kinds of pictures and is a great person to work with. She had some beautiful blacks and silvers in her last liter. Do you live in Indiana? That is where Michelle is. If you don't, I probably have you confused with some of the others Indiana people on here.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

IPP said:


> I guess I really lucked out with Casey...I know she doesn't have papers, which I am not sure I would do with anyway.
> 
> I don't plan to show her, so if she is not show quality then I don't care.
> 
> ...


Thanks IPP 

Yeah I live in CA I don't mind shipping the puppy but I have family in Indiana so maybe I could visit and check out the dogs etc.....


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

gwtwmum2 said:


> Chicky Chat - Paris is Preston's brother right?
> Roxy if you did get another puppy that was black or silver you should get one from Preston's human mama (Michelle Able). Honestly if I ever get another spoo, I believe I'll save up and buy from her. They take SUCH good care of their puppies and have them pretty much potty trained by the time they come with you. She takes all kinds of pictures and is a great person to work with. She had some beautiful blacks and silvers in her last liter. Do you live in Indiana? That is where Michelle is. If you don't, I probably have you confused with some of the others Indiana people on here.


Yeah I am in CA does she have a website ? I found another breeder that has maghony red poodles her dogd look like they stay that deep their whole life, I sent her a puppy application so I will see if I can visit her kennel.


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## IPP (Nov 29, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> Thanks IPP
> 
> Yeah I live in CA I don't mind shipping the puppy but I have family in Indiana so maybe I could visit and check out the dogs etc.....


Here is the link she sent me when I was inquiring about red standards...mind you this was probably over a year ago now. She had an ad up for a red standard male as a stud, so I thought I would e-mail to ask if she ever had puppies...and this is the link she sent me. I do have her phone number...if this link doesn't work for you then pm me and I can send you her phone number.

http://tropicalcactus.com/REDSTANDARDPOODLEPUPPIESFORSALEILLINOIS2008LEKEPOODLES.html

Thanks
Tina
LEKE POODLES


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

IPP said:


> Here is the link she sent me when I was inquiring about red standards...mind you this was probably over a year ago now. She had an ad up for a red standard male as a stud, so I thought I would e-mail to ask if she ever had puppies...and this is the link she sent me. I do have her phone number...if this link doesn't work for you then pm me and I can send you her phone number.
> 
> http://tropicalcactus.com/REDSTANDARDPOODLEPUPPIESFORSALEILLINOIS2008LEKEPOODLES.html
> 
> ...


IPP i have been emailing this breeder. she seems nice but like i said earlier many breeders are lying about their dogs staying red. i have asked her to send me recent pictures and she keeps sending me old pics of when her dogs where young. look a how light tigger is now !!!!!!!! the mother of here recent litter is from majestic kennel she looks nice but again i do not know her true color as of now, i will post pics that she sent me later.


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

gwtwmum2 said:


> Chicky Chat - Paris is Preston's brother right?
> Yes!!! Paris is Preston's Sister, Preston is fading now
> Michelle was really disappointed, but Preston's mother I"m assuming has the dd or Dd gene and Coby the father has the dd gene which will produce fading puppies 75% to 100% of the time. Michelle is almost as obsessed with her poodles as I am! We talk on the phone now and then!


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

As soon as Paris has her puppies I'm going to have their DNA tested for the Dilute gene individually. That way I'll know if each puppy has it or not and I can advertise it that way. I want to be 100% sure before I make any promises to anyone.


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## IPP (Nov 29, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> IPP i have been emailing this breeder. she seems nice but like i said earlier many breeders are lying about their dogs staying red. i have asked her to send me recent pictures and she keeps sending me old pics of when her dogs where young. look a how light tigger is now !!!!!!!! the mother of here recent litter is from majestic kennel she looks nice but again i do not know her true color as of now, i will post pics that she sent me later.


Well I do know of this breeder in Indiana as well, and she does have adult pics of her standards and other dogs. She keeps most of her dogs in a short groom so its hard to tell their color, but I suppose if you are wanting to see reds in Indiana I might as well mention her! I have never been to her home either, but I do know many people who have recommended her. I really like a female she has named Legacy...awesome coloring (not a red though) she has a picture of her on there somewhere. I know she has either 1 or 2 litters of reds/apricots but seeing as the mothers are light I would suppose they might fade. You would just have to e-mail her and ask!

http://www.hilltoppups.net/ (web-site)
[email protected] (e-mail address)

If you decided to make a day out of visiting standard poodles breeders in Indiana and are tempted by the blues I do know of a lady who has them as well. I think her standards are show dogs, at least the father...and she has reds, apricots, creams, browns and nice blue and sometimes silver pups. At least you know a blue or silver is going to fade, then its fun to see how much or how light they will get! LOL She has a litter right now, but no reds...very cute blue and chocolates!

http://www.vendettapoodles.com/ (web-site)


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

IPP said:


> Well I do know of this breeder in Indiana as well, and she does have adult pics of her standards and other dogs. She keeps most of her dogs in a short groom so its hard to tell their color, but I suppose if you are wanting to see reds in Indiana I might as well mention her! I have never been to her home either, but I do know many people who have recommended her. I really like a female she has named Legacy...awesome coloring (not a red though) she has a picture of her on there somewhere. I know she has either 1 or 2 litters of reds/apricots but seeing as the mothers are light I would suppose they might fade. You would just have to e-mail her and ask!
> 
> http://www.hilltoppups.net/ (web-site)
> [email protected] (e-mail address)


She is a "Doodle" breeder I would advise to look else ware for a puppy 

On the topic of "reds" there is no gene in poodles that is "red" like an Irish Setter they are all genetically "Apricot" or dark creams like Labradors. Its just now breeders are keeping the fading gene out and the dogs stay a dark orange color. I have yet to see one as dark as an Irish. Also some dogs are genetically Sable which can look red but its not. The friend I have who was wanting a red Standard went to a breeder and the woman way dyeing puppies to be darker! My friend asked the lady what she was doing and the woman said "Oh just adding a little color to these pups before they go online" needless to say my friend high tailed it out of there!


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Purple Poodle said:


> She is a "Doodle" breeder I would advise to look else ware for a puppy
> 
> On the topic of "reds" there is no gene in poodles that is "red" like an Irish Setter they are all genetically "Apricot" or dark creams like Labradors. Its just now breeders are keeping the fading gene out and the dogs stay a dark orange color. I have yet to see one as dark as an Irish. Also some dogs are genetically Sable which can look red but its not. The friend I have who was wanting a red Standard went to a breeder and the woman way dyeing puppies to be darker! My friend asked the lady what she was doing and the woman said "Oh just adding a little color to these pups before they go online" needless to say my friend high tailed it out of there!




Im with PP too. I would NEVER consider a person that call's themselves a breeder that breeds sheparddoodles and so forth. lol Im actually laughing because that website said enough right there. Sorry if that sounds rude but that me being real. 

By the way to whom ever is looking for a puppy, a website says a lot just by the way they advertise themselves. People that are really into there dogs and the best for the breed represent there sites very well too. I may sound like a snob but its the truth. Also quality standard Poodle's run about 2,000 or 3,000 if you want a show potential. You can get a pet from a "so called breeder" that does 0 health testing for 1,000 all day long. 

Wow PP, all this red talk reminds me of the bully "blue dog" stuff. Everyone's trying to get a piece of the pie. lol


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

IPP said:


> If you decided to make a day out of visiting standard poodles breeders in Indiana and are tempted by the blues I do know of a lady who has them as well. I think her standards are show dogs, at least the father...and she has reds, apricots, creams, browns and nice blue and sometimes silver pups. At least you know a blue or silver is going to fade, then its fun to see how much or how light they will get! LOL She has a litter right now, but no reds...very cute blue and chocolates!
> 
> http://www.vendettapoodles.com/ (web-site)


I take my dogs to vendetta poodles for grooming. Karens husband lost his battle to cancer just three days ago, so I'd give her a week or two before calling her. It is really sad. 
Her dog Amos is red is a son to Preston, and brother to my Paris.


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## IPP (Nov 29, 2008)

If I were to get a red and wanted it for showing I would indeed call Karen. I also don't agree with the mixed breed designer breed, either...but I thought I would put her info up to be fair. When I first was looking at her web-site a few years back she only did standards and occasionally a Labradoodle because she also bred labs as well. I see that since the last time I looked she has added quite a few dogs and new "Crosses". I only mentioned her because I knew she had reds...

If I were looking for a show red or apricot I wouldn't probably go with anyone but Karen (at least if I didn't want to go outside Indiana) and just hope she had a red/apricot litter because I know her puppies go FAST!

If I were just looking for a standard poodle and weren't interested in showing or therapy assistance I would just go through the Indianapolis Poodle Rescue! 

I just saw a post on www.craigslist.com in Indianapolis Indiana and they are begging for foster and permanent homes for poodles and mixes of all ages, shapes, colors and sizes! If you look up poodles on www.petfinder.com in Indiana there are over 50 dogs!


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Here is a breeder that has breed's and show's red poodles in Canada. I prefer this red vs a dark orange/red. This is just a little darker then an apricot. 


http://www.lumierestandardpoodles.com/Robson.html


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> As soon as Paris has her puppies I'm going to have their DNA tested for the Dilute gene individually. That way I'll know if each puppy has it or not and I can advertise it that way. I want to be 100% sure before I make any promises to anyone.


can you keep me posted on your pups?


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> Im with PP too. I would NEVER consider a person that call's themselves a breeder that breeds sheparddoodles and so forth. lol Im actually laughing because that website said enough right there. Sorry if that sounds rude but that me being real.
> 
> By the way to whom ever is looking for a puppy, a website says a lot just by the way they advertise themselves. People that are really into there dogs and the best for the breed represent there sites very well too. I may sound like a snob but its the truth. Also quality standard Poodle's run about 2,000 or 3,000 if you want a show potential. You can get a pet from a "so called breeder" that does 0 health testing for 1,000 all day long.
> 
> Wow PP, all this red talk reminds me of the bully "blue dog" stuff. Everyone's trying to get a piece of the pie. lol


yeah of course i make sure the breeder health test. i really don't go by some ones website since many people are not web savvy. i seen all of the breeders websites on the apricot and red poodle club. this is how i got in contact with terry farley from farley d poodles. susan osburn (sp) in nevada she has bred the fourth red ch , raquel just finished so i might contact her as well since she is super close to me compared to terry and the canadian breeders.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> yeah of course i make sure the breeder health test. i really don't go by some ones website since many people are not web savvy. i seen all of the breeders websites on the apricot and red poodle club. this is how i got in contact with terry farley from farley d poodles. susan osburn (sp) in nevada she has bred the fourth red ch , raquel just finished so i might contact her as well since she is super close to me compared to terry and the canadian breeders.


Well, lol, from looking at her website, she looks like a much better breeder then most of the red Poodle breeder's I have seen. If a good breeder is not web savvy then they have one of there fellow breeder friends do there website. First impressions mean a great deal and internet is the best advertisment for a dog breeder. As you get further into showing and meet reputable breeder's, you will see what Im saying. 

You are also right to pass up a breeder that will not take a few minutes to respond to your email (s). If you can't get there time as a potential home for their pups, you most certainly wont get the time and assistance a good breeder should want to provide after you purchase a puppy.

One thing I have learned if you want to be successful in showing sooner then later, is to be color blind. First you pick the few pup's out that have the best conformation, evaluate temperment and then decide apon color. Honestly, for me, temperment is not a major concern coming from a good breeder because they're all still just pups. You can usually tell a dead head right puppy right away. But for the most part a puppy coming from a good breeder will be well socialized for the age and pretty outgoing to most people they meet. I had to do that with Sting. I had wanted his littermate brother (creme pup) for weeks and then when I met both boys in person and I immediatly knew I would be stupid to take the creme puppy over the black because I really wanted a show potential. 

Anyways, that's just something to consider because I know your very interested in showing eventually. Also, if your ever considering wanting to go AKC for showing and you don't intend to hire a handler, then I would not get a red/apricot/brown dog. Even the really good breeder's that were selling brown pups advised me for a beginner owner/handler in Poodle's stick to black or white and possibly silver. After your more recognized, then go to the other colors. Just some info I have learned and thought I'd pass on before you put a chunk of money on a show potential Poodle.


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## gwtwmum2 (Sep 14, 2008)

Chicky Chat - I just love Michelle, she and I email a couple of times a week!
She takes such good care of her puppies. I was really impressed following her last liter.
I went on the website you suggested and was sorry to hear about Karen's husband. Michelle said he wasn't doing well.
But I was pleasantly surprised when I looked on her expectent page - she is using Wrigley and Jenny (Sam I am's white girl) dad. He is the ice white poodle - Braeden. Small world!


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

I really like Michelle a lot too!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> Well, lol, from looking at her website, she looks like a much better breeder then most of the red Poodle breeder's I have seen. If a good breeder is not web savvy then they have one of there fellow breeder friends do there website. First impressions mean a great deal and internet is the best advertisment for a dog breeder. As you get further into showing and meet reputable breeder's, you will see what Im saying.



I still stand by what I said about not caring how their website is lol. I have met many people with great dogs over the 10 years of going to dog shows and their website is crap or out dated. I know they can pay for someone to do the website or have a friend but if they are a good breeder they don't need that kind of avertisment IMO. If i based my opinion on webistes I would end up with a small number of breeders to talk to lol IMO most have HORRIBLE websites .I agree Lumeire's website is nice. This brings to mind American bully kennels. Some of these breeders have the flashest sites great pics etc... There dogs are horrible ..... so the website does not mean anything to me. 

I am not so stuck on color but if I can get another red or apricot that is nice then I might get one , other wise blue,silver,black,brown is fine with me. I just won't get a white lol


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> I still stand by what I said about not caring how their website is lol. I have met many people with great dogs over the 10 years of going to dog shows and their website is crap or out dated. I know they can pay for someone to do the website or have a friend but if they are a good breeder they don't need that kind of avertisment IMO. If i based my opinion on webistes I would end up with a small number of breeders to talk to lol IMO most have HORRIBLE websites .I agree Lumeire's website is nice. This brings to mind American bully kennels. Some of these breeders have the flashest sites great pics etc... There dogs are horrible ..... so the website does not mean anything to me.
> 
> I am not so stuck on color but if I can get another red or apricot that is nice then I might get one , other wise blue,silver,black,brown is fine with me. I just won't get a white lol




When I say nice website's Im meaning tastful and informative with nice dogs. Not meaning ghetto and neat with piles. I have seen websites that seem nice but you can tell right off the back they have crappy dogs if you know the standard of the breed well enough. With bully sites most of them are ghetto....sorry but thats true. You and I certainly have difference of what a nice dog when it comes to Amsttaffs. It didn't take my husband and I more then 2 years after going to dog show's to realize what a nice amstaff was. We were out there to take breed not to win classes for years to come. I really don't mean to sound rude at all, but that's just what its all about. People can say "oh, Im only doing it because it's fun". We all want to win and to have the top dog no matter what anyone says. 

I most certainly have been out of the loop for about 2 yrs now. I don't have the time to make a mistake and take 2 yrs to figure out what a nice Poodle is for showing. I may be young and not have experience like other breeder's that have been doing it for 20 yrs but I know what it takes to start off successfully and that Im looking forward too. 

Im sure Im coming off stuck up but like they say, "it is what it is". I love that saying! lol


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Oh Roxy,

I most definatly agree about you looking for the color you like and then go from there. We all look for the color we would prefer from a breeder. Ecspecially with Poodle's you never know what will pop out. 

Its kind of like Amstaffs....my husband and I prefer red and white dogs but if a fawn and white pup is the best dog in that litter then we seriously would consider it. Thats all Im getting at. lol

Oh, and Im not in the market for an Amstaff in case it came out like that. I still love the breed and there are some beautiful dogs that I would take a pup from but I just can't justify breeding Amstaffs. The way the breed population is at this point is just aweful. I really don't see it improving in the future which is very sad. Poor bully's!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> You and I certainly have difference of what a nice dog when it comes to Amsttaffs.


??? I did not say a american bully is an amstaff nor did I say their dogs are nice .... please re read what I said. I said that they have better flashy websites but their dogs are horrible .... their websites are ghetto but the website is better made than some of these breeders using free website designs

American bullys does not = amstaffs ? If you think so :banghead:

I don't think your being stuck up , I just don't think you are getting what I am saying ...... you can have a fancy website with good info and still have crappy dogs. for you to base a breeder on his or her website is IMO retarded lol seriously I have met many breeders who I would consider getting a dog from and they do not have a website or have a crappy one.

There is a top breeder in my area and her website has nothing really on it ? Her dog was in the top 25 poodles in 2006 and she is a nice informed person about the breed........ Her webiste would not stop me from getting a dog from her.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> Oh Roxy,
> 
> I most definatly agree about you looking for the color you like and then go from there. We all look for the color we would prefer from a breeder. Ecspecially with Poodle's you never know what will pop out.
> 
> ...


I agree when i was looking into getting a APBT I wanted a black one simply because you don't see all black apbt too often. I based my choice on bloodlines , temperment , health etc... When I get into my own house I will get me a boudreaux dog or a dog off gambler's virgil bloodline. I found other dogs that where not black that I would take in a heart beat. I found a breeder who had red nose dogs and they seemed to fit what i was looking for. 

Yeah poor amstaffs I don't think anyone will get back on track with this breed.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> ??? I did not say a american bully is an amstaff nor did I say their dogs are nice .... please re read what I said. I said that they have better flashy websites but their dogs are horrible .... their websites are ghetto but the website is better made than some of these breeders using free website designs
> 
> American bullys does not = amstaffs ? If you think so :banghead:
> 
> ...




LOL ..... Im not refering the American bully comment. You said on a message to me that you couldn't find a nice Amstaff and you prefer the ADBA registered type APBT's. An American bully would "IMO" mean ANY american bully breed. 

I realize we have difference of opinion on what is acceptable in our eyes when deciding on purchasing a dog. I still stick behind what I said about the what you can tell off a website. I know there are some situations where there is an exception. However, for the most part you can tell a great deal just from the advertisement through a site. 

You seriously can't tell me that you haven't pulled up certain websites and said to yourself what a bad site! Come on now Roxy. lol


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Roxy said;
I have met many breeders who I would consider getting a dog from and they do not have a website or have a crappy one.

When I get into my own house I will get me a boudreaux dog or a dog off *gambler's virgil bloodline*.

Me again lol;
Ok I see where the difference is coming up here. What I consider a nice bred Amstaff/APBT is and what one is in your opinion are two HUGE differences. That's totally fine but we will have to agree to disagree. lol


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

Have you ever tried to find someone to do a good website for you without hiring a professional??? It's nearly impossible. I have tried and tried and everyone says they will do one for you, but they NEVER end up doing one, or helping. I eventually had to learn myself and I'm still not good at it. I'm trying though. 

http://www.luckypoodle.com

If you do hire a professional to do it , plan on paying thousands of dollars.
You really can't judge someones quality of dogs on their website. I've seen dogs with many championships at shows whose owners beg me to make them a website... HA... I'm struggling enough on my own.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

Regarding the website comments: Websites are not hard to make look good regardless of how much you know. Nor does it have to cost a fourtune. 

I use a template based free web host and I have to say my site looks good  Plouf Parti Poodles I know very little about HTML or CSS of what have you. 

I hate seeing a breeders website look shitty, to me that means they don't care what people think or see when they long on *shrug* Its kind of like going to a breeders house and the place is a mess and they can;t show you anything because they don't know where its at. 

Anyway....


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Like I said before.....When I say nice website's Im meaning tastful and informative with *nice dogs*. Not meaning ghetto and neat with piles. I have seen websites that seem nice but you can tell right off the back they have *crappy dogs if you know the standard of the breed well enough*.

Chickychat,

Your website for instance doesn't look like bad at all. Its clean looking, not distracting and you have decent pics of your dogs. I don't mean decent in a bad way, but your pics aren't stacked pics. Well Trigger is semi stacked. If I was in the market for pet a (not knowing you at all) from your site I would think that your just beginning in breeding Poodles. You definitely know your health testing and seem like a reputable person to purchase a pet from. By the way Im only saying pet because neither Paris or Trigger have any show experience. If I were looking for a serious show potential I would go to a site that show's me they have a fair amount of experience breeding *show* dogs. 

Then like you said.......you know people with Ch dogs that are begging you to do a website. Ok, so they don't have site yet. I never mentioned that people with out a site have bad dogs. Also having a Ch title on a dog doesn't mean its a great dog conformationally. Thats where all the politics come into dog showing.


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

Don't forget PurplePoodle. you are 22 years old, the same age as my Daughter. You grew up with computers in your life and Me being 47 didn't even learn to turn one on until I was 37. My husband still can't turn off the screen saver but he can build a 20 million dollar intersection and road from scratch. It isn't as easy even to do a free site as you think. Plus being our age half of us can't rememeber from one time to the next what we learned on the PC last time we turned it on. 
I'm very computer literate now but I still couldn't design a banner like yours if my life depended on it. 

But, I did finally put mine online two months ago and have 850 hits already. I think this would have been impossible if I'd used a free website to build it. 
I do have a professional designing a new banner for me now, but it's costing me many dog biscuits to do it. 
I mean no disrespect to you being 22, but as we age we may gain valuable knowledge as a breeder, but we can be stupid as heck when it comes to building even a free website with a templet.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> Don't forget PurplePoodle. you are 22 years old, the same age as my Daughter. You grew up with computers in your life and Me being 47 didn't even learn to turn one on until I was 37. My husband still can't turn off the screen saver but he can build a 20 million dollar intersection and road from scratch. It isn't as easy even to do a free site as you think. Plus being our age half of us can't rememeber from one time to the next what we learned on the PC last time we turned it on.
> I'm very computer literate now but I still couldn't design a banner like yours if my life depended on it.
> 
> But, I did finally put mine online two months ago and have 850 hits already. I think this would have been impossible if I'd used a free website to build it.
> ...




How long have you owned/bred Poodle's now?


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> Don't forget PurplePoodle. you are 22 years old, the same age as my Daughter. You grew up with computers in your life and Me being 47 didn't even learn to turn one on until I was 37. My husband still can't turn off the screen saver but he can build a 20 million dollar intersection and road from scratch. It isn't as easy even to do a free site as you think. Plus being our age half of us can't rememeber from one time to the next what we learned on the PC last time we turned it on.
> I'm very computer literate now but I still couldn't design a banner like yours if my life depended on it.
> 
> But, I did finally put mine online two months ago and have 850 hits already. I think this would have been impossible if I'd used a free website to build it.
> ...


None taken  I have only been internet active for 6 years, we had a computer when I was younger (around 10) but all we did was type and play games. 

BTW my banner was make with MS Paint  

Some people can learn computer skills quickly and others not so much. I'm the middle of the road type and can do most but not all.

Free web hosting is just as effective as having your own domain name, it all depends on where your site is listed in search engines and where you advertise


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Purple Poodle said:


> None taken  I have only been internet active for 6 years, we had a computer when I was younger (around 10) but all we did was type and play games.
> 
> BTW my banner was make with MS Paint
> 
> ...


Im not all that computer savvy. I may be 26 years old and yes I grew up using a computer from time to time but it was slow and I couldn't stand it. I never used a computer really until the last 2 yrs. Luckily, I have a husband that fails at nothing, so what I can't get done he step's in and completes. I love that hubby! lol He also does pedigree page's for some of our breeder friends but that's it right now. I have confidence that he will make our's look great and teach me too eventually. 

I played around with the free web stuff but didn't get far. Im planning on just buying the domain and going that route. I have some time before thats all that important. Sting's just a baby and Eli is just my lovely pet. lol


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

I use netfirms as a web host and it works well. They have a program you can download and use to build it or you can just buy the domain thru them for like 7 dollars a year. You can set the domain to point to your free site. 
I am new to breeding actually and I wont mind admitting it. I have some fantastic mentors that I work with and I have researched for 3 year now, long before I even bought my first standard. We worked hard together to get her Delta Therapy Dog Certification by the time she was a year and 4 days old! I searched for two years to find Trigger to breed Paris to, and went first for conformation and color, I searched for the DD gene so that the puppies couldn't fade. I next went for Temperament and pedigree. Triggers Pedigree is FULL of champions, both American and Russian. He is still young and hasn't been shown, he had a veterinary procedure that was done when he wasn't quite out and made him afraid of people. He is a darling dog but skittish at first of strangers, so he can't be shown yet until he overcomes this. He will be going for hunt titles soon. Paris has many champions in her pedigree too, but I haven't ever shown a dog yet, and I don't think I have the backbone to take criticism like some others do. If we do get a great potential show dog I will keep it. There will be an AKC judge coming to my house at 8 weeks old to grade my puppies for show potential. Any other of my dogs will be sold as a Pet with a spay or neuter contract. 
I did get an email a few days ago from a AKC, judge asking about my puppies. Word sure travels fast in the poodle world.
My website is only in the beginning stages, I hope to build it through experience as time goes on. I do put my heart and soul into this. I did have a litter of poodles 11 years ago which worked out well. Only 2 pups.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> I use netfirms as a web host and it works well. They have a program you can download and use to build it or you can just buy the domain thru them for like 7 dollars a year. You can set the domain to point to your free site.
> I am new to breeding actually and I wont mind admitting it. I have some fantastic mentors that I work with and I have researched for 3 year now, long before I even bought my first standard. We worked hard together to get her Delta Therapy Dog Certification by the time she was a year and 4 days old! I searched for two years to find Trigger to breed Paris to, and went first for conformation and color, I searched for the DD gene so that the puppies couldn't fade. I next went for Temperament and pedigree. Triggers Pedigree is FULL of champions, both American and Russian. He is still young and hasn't been shown, he had a veterinary procedure that was done when he wasn't quite out and made him afraid of people. He is a darling dog but skittish at first of strangers, so he can't be shown yet until he overcomes this. He will be going for hunt titles soon. Paris has many champions in her pedigree too, but I haven't ever shown a dog yet, and I don't think I have the backbone to take criticism like some others do. If we do get a great potential show dog I will keep it. There will be an AKC judge coming to my house at 8 weeks old to grade my puppies for show potential. Any other of my dogs will be sold as a Pet with a spay or neuter contract.
> I did get an email a few days ago from a AKC, judge asking about my puppies. Word sure travels fast in the poodle world.
> My website is only in the beginning stages, I hope to build it through experience as time goes on. I do put my heart and soul into this. I did have a litter of poodles 11 years ago which worked out well. Only 2 pups.


Speaking about Trigger being scared of new people....thats what Im talking about when I say that I know of many nice show dogs that came from one non-titled parent for one reason or another. It doesn't mean that that dog isn
t worthy of breeding. Thats also great that you have someone to come out and evaluate the pups at 8 weeks. Hopefully you'll have a decent amount of pups and be able to keep just the pup you want for your breeding program. 

When we did our breeding with Cherry (Amstaff bitch) she only had 2 pups. The first was stillborn and the second lived for almost 2 days. We think she smothered him during the night. She had him laying in front of her chest with her legs crossed around him and her head covering him just like a good mommy would. Just as if he was alive and well. It was the saddest experience I have ever had with a dog. She looked for her baby for 2 weeks and was so depressed. We were offered to repeat the breeding but declined. It was just to much for us at that point. Since then we haven't been in any hurry to breed again or do we have anything available and ready to breed. 

I realize you have your heart into this breeding just as we did. Its a special moment delivering those babies. lIts like there your own.


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

That's so sad Secreto


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> LOL ..... Im not refering the American bully comment. You said on a message to me that you couldn't find a nice Amstaff and you prefer the ADBA registered type APBT's. An American bully would "IMO" mean ANY american bully breed.
> 
> I realize we have difference of opinion on what is acceptable in our eyes when deciding on purchasing a dog. I still stick behind what I said about the what you can tell off a website. I know there are some situations where there is an exception. However, for the most part you can tell a great deal just from the advertisement through a site.
> 
> You seriously can't tell me that you haven't pulled up certain websites and said to yourself what a bad site! Come on now Roxy. lol



When I am talking about american bully's I mean this http://www.abkcdogs.org/ they are consider a seperate breed. I don't lump all pit bull type dogs in one category. I would never call an amstaff an american bully nor a apbt nor a staffy or a bull terrier .....

yes I seen bad websites but i can care less about the website. I find a lot of top breeders have HORRIBLE WEBSITES . I guess you think a good website has no pictures or updated events for the kennel etc..., its fine and dandy they have info about the breed and health testing but I came to the website for pictures and current wins or updated litters etc.... I know some breeders who never update and their sites , they are sooooooo old and they have decline in the quality of dogs they bred. there are breeders older than me that can not make web pages like Chickychat stated. I am 24 and I can't even make a website !

How do you think people found good breeders before the internet ? LOL


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

anyways :focus:

My sister just got off the phone with Terry farley , He gave her some great info , I wish there where more breeders like him who love to teach and mentor newbies. He told my sister that there are true red dogs but they are rare. He said he has a 13 year old bitch that is still red. He also gave use names of some people in our area to contact for help. Most have apricot and red standard poodles so they will not be so bias towards us. 

we sent him pictures of Enzo and he said he looks pretty good so far , he wants pictures of his face and more of him stacking ( which he is still a long way from doing properly lol)


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> anyways :focus:
> 
> My sister just got off the phone with Terry farley , He gave her some great info , I wish there where more breeders like him who love to teach and mentor newbies. He told my sister that there are true red dogs but they are rare. He said he has a 13 year old bitch that is still red. He also gave use names of some people in our area to contact for help. Most have apricot and red standard poodles so they will not be so bias towards us.
> 
> we sent him pictures of Enzo and he said he looks pretty good so far , he wants pictures of his face and more of him stacking ( which he is still a long way from doing properly lol)


Roxy, Do me a favor please and ask him about this dog, http://www.harmonyhuntingpudels.com/Trigger.html Trigger. And about her breeding. CH Farleys D I Am Marcello is triggers great grandfather. 
This is my puppies daddy.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> Roxy, Do me a favor please and ask him about this dog, http://www.harmonyhuntingpudels.com/Trigger.html Trigger. And about her breeding. CH Farleys D I Am Marcello is triggers great grandfather.
> This is my puppies daddy.


Sure Chickychat I will send him another email tomorrow , I am on my way out the office. What would you like to know about Trigger ?


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

Just ask him if he thinks triggers puppies will fade, being bred to an apricot dd gene female. And is this the 'true red' he is talking about?


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> That's so sad Secreto


It is sad !!! I have had this happen to me 2-3 times with my american bobtail cats  I found out that two of my cats genes do not match up good when bred. So I just culled them out of my breeding program


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> Just ask him if he thinks triggers puppies will fade, being bred to an apricot dd gene female. And is this the 'true red' he is talking about?


I will see what he says , I will ask what age do the dogs fade. I read some fade within a year but I think it depends on the bloolines etc... 

I will see if he can send me pictures of his 13 year girl. Since he is really nice maybe I will get a puppy for him when he has his next litter. He told my sister he keeps showing his dog's even when they are 7 years of age! He seems to be one of the few breeders I came across that truely show for fun and a challenge. 

I had a question on Blue pood;es. Are they a blue color like a weimraner or are they dark like black blue ?


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> I had a question on Blue pood;es. Are they a blue color like a weimraner or are they dark like black blue ?


Weimeraners are not blue they are a dilute liver called Isabella. Most Blue poodles are dark blue like this dog , or this like a gun metel color.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> When I am talking about american bully's I mean this http://www.abkcdogs.org/ they are consider a seperate breed. I don't lump all pit bull type dogs in one category. I would never call an amstaff an american bully nor a apbt nor a staffy or a bull terrier .....
> 
> yes I seen bad websites but i can care less about the website. I find a lot of top breeders have HORRIBLE WEBSITES . *I guess you think a good website has no pictures or updated events for the kennel etc..., its fine and dandy they have info about the breed and health testing but I came to the website for pictures and current wins or updated litters etc*.... I know some breeders who never update and their sites , they are sooooooo old and they have decline in the quality of dogs they bred. * there are breeders older than me that can not make web pages like Chickychat stated*. I am 24 and I can't even make a website !
> 
> How do you think people found good breeders before the internet ? LOL



Im ready to get back to topic too but are you kidding me about the bolded portion of what you replyed ? Of course I want to see pictures (nice pics and ecspecially nice stacked pics) and it to be updated. If someone has a crappy website then the dogs usually don't look well represented either. Im talking about everything as a whole. Not just individual things about a webpage. I also never stated that you have to have a website to be a reputable breeder. I was implying that most good breeder's that *have* a website want it to represent there dogs as well as they do. 

I really don't care if you get a dog from bad breeder or good one. Thats all you. I simply made a comment that you can tell a lot from a website.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

According to the AKC this states as follow's:

Weimaraner....
Short, smooth and sleek, solid color, in shades of mouse-gray to silver-gray, usually blending to lighter shades on the head and ears. A small white marking on the chest is permitted, but should be penalized on any other portion of the body. White spots resulting from injury should not be penalized. A distinctly long coat is a disqualification. A distinctly blue or black coat is a disqualification.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> I was implying that most good breeder's that *have* a website want it to represent there dogs as well as they do. .


I agree but some breeders do not spend much time online so again if they have a bad website who cares ........ Thats almost like judging someone based on what type of car they have ..... IMO 



SECRETO said:


> I really don't care if you get a dog from bad breeder or good one. Thats all you. I simply made a comment that you can tell a lot from a website.


Yes you simply made a comment I don't agree with and does not make sense to me. 

I won't be getting a dog from a bad breeder .... Like I stated in my hello thread , I been into dogs for most of my life .... I think I know where to find a good breeder. Poodles are just new to me but that does not mean I don't know where to find a quality breeder. This is why I CONTACTED Terry Farley .... :tongue:


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Purple Poodle said:


> Weimeraners are not blue they are a dilute liver called Isabella. Most Blue poodles are dark blue like this dog , or this like a gun metel color.


Thanks Purple poodle ! , I asked because I been looking at some breeders website and they said they have blue but I would see dogs like this on different webiste http://avalonpoodles.tripod.com/ but they did not list what color the dog is so I thought this was blue. On the link provide they have it listed as silver I thought silver where much lighter.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

Silver gets lighter as the dog ages and you can tell by 8 weeks weather or not its silver with blues its hared to tell, in to at all at 8 weeks. 

If you go to their females page the dog at the bottom is a blue, the dog on the home page is a silver, like "Princess TT" on their females page.


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## tannerokeefe (Dec 14, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> Thanks Purple poodle ! , I asked because I been looking at some breeders website and they said they have blue but I would see dogs like this on different webiste http://avalonpoodles.tripod.com/ but they did not list what color the dog is so I thought this was blue. On the link provide they have it listed as silver I thought silver where much lighter.





Purple Poodle said:


> Silver gets lighter as the dog ages and you can tell by 8 weeks weather or not its silver with blues its hared to tell, in to at all at 8 weeks.
> 
> If you go to their females page the dog at the bottom is a blue, the dog on the home page is a silver, like "Princess TT" on their females page.



My Dutch is a silver and there are pictures of him in the picture forum and the grooming forum. You could def tell he was silver at a very young age. He is 12 weeks old.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> I agree but some breeders do not spend much time online so again if they have a bad website who cares ........ *Thats almost like judging someone based on what type of car they have ..... IMO *
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oh dear...:shot: lol


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## katsdogworld (Jan 24, 2009)

*My poodle search experience...*

Hello Poodle People! I was reading this thread and had to chime in...
I too was looking for a dark red poodle puppy. I searched and searched and searched. I learned a great deal, including some not so savory things about breeders listed in this thread...I'm not gonna smear publicly, but will share privately if interested.
Anywho, after having a horrible interaction with a "breeder" in Iowa, I finally came across Susan at http://www.marquisdiamondstandardpoodles.com

Her website was very informative, I liked that she waited until her dogs were two years old and had passed ALL the requisite poodle health tests. I liked that she competed her dogs, that she cared enough to feed all of her dogs a homemade RAW diet, and, to top it off, she was very quick to respond to my query, answered all questions thoroughly, provided great references, and even though she prefers people to visit her home and kennel to really get a feel for the dogs she was gracious enough to pack three puppies with her to a dog show for me to meet. That's how I ended up with Monroe...He is such a great guy...and, as it turns out, he has been quite successful in his limited show career as well...he's already UKC, Nat. & International CH...next up AKC!








http://www.flickr.com/photos/katalystproductions/3196026666/" title="monroe's best in show puppy by katsdogworld, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3451/3196026666_17df11cb56_m.jpg" width="240" height="209" alt="monroe's best in show puppy"[IMG]
[IMG]http://www.flickr.com/photos/katalystproductions/3208346067/" title="BIRD!!! by katsdogworld, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3125/3208346067_c1ec301a38_m.jpg" width="161" height="240" alt="BIRD!!!"[IMG]


As you can see, he's not red!!! However, Susan does breed reds as well. She has had her red bitch genetically tested...her color will not fade. 
Here's a pic of Randie out of Rose's last litter:
[IMG]http://www.flickr.com/photos/katalystproductions/3153304672/" title="Such a pretty face! by katsdogworld, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3119/3153304672_23605cbfca_m.jpg" width="213" height="240" alt="Such a pretty face!"[IMG]

Her owner tells me she's actually getting darker...I can't wait to see her again. We'll all be competing at the UKC show coming up in March in Modesto...
Just had to add in my 2 cents...Best of luck in your search!


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## katsdogworld (Jan 24, 2009)

My apologies, apparently I don't know how to post pics here...I tried everything I knew, perhaps someone could help?


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> LOL I wanted to get another red poodle but I am not too fawn of the fact they fade to a apricot color  . So maybe a silver dog ? or black dog. if i get silver at least i expect him or her to get lighter lol Or maybe a parti poodle


my ginger is 3 and a half and is still red - somedays more than others lol I think enzo is so gorgous but he is lighter than ginger was when his age. so the darker the pup the more red it will stay.


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

actually here isginger now.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

katsdogworld said:


> Hello Poodle People! I was reading this thread and had to chime in...
> I too was looking for a dark red poodle puppy. I searched and searched and searched. I learned a great deal, including some not so savory things about breeders listed in this thread...I'm not gonna smear publicly, but will share privately if interested.
> Anywho, after having a horrible interaction with a "breeder" in Iowa, I finally came across Susan at http://www.marquisdiamondstandardpoodles.com
> 
> ...


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

Pamela said:


> actually here isginger now.


Pam Ginger is actually a Brown, she has a liver nose and amber eyes  She may have a red cats but she is indeed a brown.


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## katsdogworld (Jan 24, 2009)

I'm going to GG show as well, though I don't think I'll make it today...Susan will not be there. I've got lots of great pictures of Val...he sure is gorgeous, and, he carries red factor genes! I'm looking forward to getting a puppy out of a future breeding between Val and Rose.


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## kathyd (Nov 8, 2008)

katsdogworld said:


> My apologies, apparently I don't know how to post pics here...I tried everything I knew, perhaps someone could help?


katsdogworld, if your images are on flickr, you can post web links. Try these:

Monroe:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/katalystproductions/3196026666/
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3451/3196026666_17df11cb56_m.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/katalystproductions/3208346067/
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3125/3208346067_c1ec301a38_m.jpg

Randie:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/katalystproductions/3153304672
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3119/3153304672_23605cbfca_m.jpg


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## katsdogworld (Jan 24, 2009)

Thanks, that's helpful, though it would be better still if I could post them within my posts...Do I have to use my photobucket account for that?


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## Blue Fox (Oct 22, 2008)

I use photobucket and it seems to work great


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## spoofan (Dec 11, 2008)

Roxy25...would you consider a rescue?

http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=12757198


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> Oh dear...:shot: lol


lol its ok


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

kathyd said:


> katsdogworld, if your images are on flickr, you can post web links. Try these:
> 
> Monroe:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/katalystproductions/3196026666/
> ...


So pretty ! I have been to that kennel's website her dogs look nice. I got some names I need to look into , but I am having a hard time finding them.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

spoofan said:


> Roxy25...would you consider a rescue?
> 
> http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=12757198


I don't like the way rescues run so I would never try to get one from a rescue group. I have rescued different breeds before and I just get them out of the shelter.

I am looking for something to show anyways . I am not sure if I will get on or not. My bf has a problem with me getting a poodle so I need to get him used to Enzo first lol


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## kathyd (Nov 8, 2008)

katsdogworld said:


> Thanks, that's helpful, though it would be better still if I could post them within my posts...Do I have to use my photobucket account for that?


Seems you can do that from flickr if you have a URL that ends in the image filename (something.jpg) like this one:http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3125/3208346067_c1ec301a38_m.jpg

You can attach an image from a URL if that url mentions the filename, but not all of yours did. The image in this post is the one from the link above.

To get it into your post, hit reply to post, then hit the manage attachments button. There are some boxes in the 'upload from url' section. This is where you put the url with the filename in it.


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

Susan Cook from Marquis Diamond Standard Poodles and Harmony Mountain Hunting Pudels (where I bred Paris with Trigger, are co-breeders!) 

Paris and Triggers pups wont fade! That picture you posted is the same color as Trigger.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> Susan Cook from Marquis Diamond Standard Poodles and Harmony Mountain Hunting Pudels (where I bred Paris with Trigger, are co-breeders!)
> 
> Paris and Triggers pups wont fade! That picture you posted is the same color as Trigger.


Susan's actually there now at a show. I have been talking to Brian Cook a little now (emailing). He seems very nice and I can't wait to speak with Susan as well. Somewhere I noticed that Sting and atleast one of the the Poodle's from Harmony Mountain go back to the same pedigree. I don't recall what dog of Harmony's it was. I feel like Im getting on the right track, breeder wise, and Im glad to know that you had a very postive experience with Harmony Mountain as well.


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

I loved Lori from Harmony Mountain. She knows so much I think she's GOD ! 
haha... Her dogs are SOOOO beautiful! Every one of them!


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> I loved Lori from Harmony Mountain. *She knows so much I think she's GOD ! *haha... Her dogs are SOOOO beautiful! Every one of them!


LOL....


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

Purple Poodle said:


> Pam Ginger is actually a Brown, she has a liver nose and amber eyes  She may have a red cats but she is indeed a brown.


actually she is red - akc accepts the pink nose as long as the eyes are amber.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Pamela said:


> actually she is red - akc accepts the pink nose as long as the eyes are amber.


She looks brown to me also ... 

I think any breeder would also say she is brown too


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## gwtwmum2 (Sep 14, 2008)

http://www.poodleforum.com/showthread.php?t=583

I think this thread shows her red more. I'm sure her mama knows what color she is since she is the one who loves her day in and day out.


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

gwtwmum2 said:


> http://www.poodleforum.com/showthread.php?t=583
> 
> I think this thread shows her red more. I'm sure her mama knows what color she is since she is the one who loves her day in and day out.


 I agree, Red it is! mama always knows best!


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## starkeeper (Jan 27, 2009)

*hopping on the thread to say*

she looks like a red with the liver tint vs a bright red.

I am an apricot fan (Star is my first apricot after searching high and low for the right breeder.....my previous poodles were blacks and whites).


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> Susan's actually there now at a show. I have been talking to Brian Cook a little now (emailing). He seems very nice and I can't wait to speak with Susan as well. Somewhere I noticed that Sting and atleast one of the the Poodle's from Harmony Mountain go back to the same pedigree. I don't recall what dog of Harmony's it was. I feel like Im getting on the right track, breeder wise, and Im glad to know that you had a very postive experience with Harmony Mountain as well.


haha. I talked to Lori yesterday and Susan had her motorhome parked in her driveway! lol

I met ALLL of the Harmony Poodles at one time in their livingroom. I was being licked all over by 9 standard poodles at once! I was in heaven!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

gwtwmum2 said:


> http://www.poodleforum.com/showthread.php?t=583
> 
> I think this thread shows her red more. I'm sure her mama knows what color she is since she is the one who loves her day in and day out.



Those pictures are much better I see the red in the first pic, its the flash of the camera making her look brown! I would love to see more of her outside


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## gwtwmum2 (Sep 14, 2008)

http://www.poodleforum.com/showthread.php?t=233

This thread was when Pamela was asking about her male's color. I think it shows the contrast really well. I had never seen a red with a liver nose before this.


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

gwtwmum2 said:


> http://www.poodleforum.com/showthread.php?t=233
> 
> This thread was when Pamela was asking about her male's color. I think it shows the contrast really well. I had never seen a red with a liver nose before this.


I asked the breeder for a red female - both the sire and damn are red - and she showed me two - Ginger who had green eyes and the pink/liver nose and the other looked just like Enzo. Even though I though the other dog was the most beautiful dog I ever saw lol - I wanted Ginger cause she was redder. so far my pix don't realy show her color too good but she is a redhead. In fact, my daughter is a redhead (helped along with the bottle since gray coming in lol) and they have the same exact color har. Now that I have a camera, as soon as I have two hands lol I will try to get more p;ix. Ginger is getting a lot of white hairs though - throuout the coat when long you can see it


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Pamela said:


> I asked the breeder for a red female - both the sire and damn are red - and she showed me two - Ginger who had green eyes and the pink/liver nose and the other looked just like Enzo. Even though I though the other dog was the most beautiful dog I ever saw lol - I wanted Ginger cause she was redder. so far my pix don't realy show her color too good but she is a redhead. In fact, my daughter is a redhead (helped along with the bottle since gray coming in lol) and they have the same exact color har. Now that I have a camera, as soon as I have two hands lol I will try to get more p;ix. Ginger is getting a lot of white hairs though - throuout the coat when long you can see it



Yeah she is a a RED! she is like a red nose american pit bull terrier. She looks so nice , I thought you only had one dog, I saw the other dogs pictures.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

Genetically red dogs can not and will not have liver pigment, red nosed pit bulls are not red they are liver in coat and nose color. Pam you can call her whatever color you want it does not mean that she is


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

The following information was authored by VetGen, who first established DNA testing for coat color.

"any breeding which produces both Brown or Cream, White, Apricot or red, has the potential to produce *brown nosed *cream, white, apricot or red. If the breeding does not have the potential to produce blacks, only cream, white, apricot, red and brown, all cream, white, apricot and red will have brown noses."
Brown nose is what you are all referring to as liver noses.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> The following information was authored by VetGen, who first established DNA testing for coat color.
> 
> "any breeding which produces both Brown or Cream, White, Apricot or red, has the potential to produce *brown nosed *cream, white, apricot or red. If the breeding does not have the potential to produce blacks, only cream, white, apricot, red and brown, all cream, white, apricot and red will have brown noses."
> Brown nose is what you are all referring to as liver noses.


But in Poodles there is NO red gene, none, zip nodda. What most breeders call "red" are dark Apricot which can have liver pigment. So what I am getting at is her dog is NOT red it is brown. But whatever.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Purple Poodle said:


> Genetically red dogs can not and will not have liver pigment, red nosed pit bulls are not red they are liver in coat and nose color. Pam you can call her whatever color you want it does not mean that she is


Sorry honey, but you don't know it all. There isn't a liver color in Pit Bulls its called fawn. My Lotus is a red nose fawn and white Pit Bull. They may say the nose is liver in color (describing it) its called a red nose and the colors fawn. 

These pics show Malibu (on left) which is Blue fawn Pit Bull, Cherry (middle) which is a red and white Amstaff, and Lotus (right) red nose fawn and white Pit Bull.

Anyhow, why can't Pamela call her dog a red according to you? The dog is not brown like Todds boy, her's is red in color no matter what her nose color is. So are you actually argueing that the coat isn't red or are you just defending the website or text book your reading?


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> Sorry honey, but you don't know it all. There isn't a liver color in Pit Bulls its called fawn. My Lotus is a red nose fawn and white Pit Bull. They may say the nose is liver in color (describing it) its called a red nose and the colors fawn.
> 
> These pics show Malibu (on left) which is Blue fawn Pit Bull, Cherry (middle) which is a red and white Amstaff, and Lotus (right) red nose fawn and white Pit Bull.


Sorry honey, but any dog with a brown or red or whatever color you want to call nose it is a liver pigmented dog. Dogs come in two main colors black and brown (liver) and that is determined by nose and eye color, if your dog has a black nose it is a black dog, if it has a brown nose it is a brown dog. If it has a blue nose it is a dilute of black, if it has a flesh colored or pink tint to it, it is a dilute of brown. Lots of colors can have either black or brown pigment it just depends on the modifiers. 

I never said I new it all but I when I make a statement or correct someone I sure as hell know what I'm talking about. 

I said she can call the dog whatever color she wants to, it just does not make it true.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Purple Poodle said:


> Sorry honey, but any dog with a brown or red or whatever color you want to call nose it is a liver pigmented dog. Dogs come in two main colors black and brown (liver) and that is determined by nose and eye color, if your dog has a black nose it is a black dog, if it has a brown nose it is a brown dog. If it has a blue nose it is a dilute of black, if it has a flesh colored or pink tint to it, it is a dilute of brown. *Lots of colors can have either black or brown pigment it just depends on the modifiers. *
> I never said I new it all but I when I make a statement or correct someone I sure as hell know what I'm talking about.
> 
> I said she can call the dog whatever color she wants to, it just does not make it true.


So your argueing that Pam's dog is not red at all just because her nose is liver in pigment. How do you explain the color of her coat then? Its obviously not brown and looks like any other red Poodle with a black nose. 

So if you stood Pam's Ginger and a red Poodle with a black nose next to each other and they are the same red color in coat, your still going to call Pam's brown just because her nose pigment?


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

Pam has an Apricot (yellow) dog with a liver nose and a Brown dog with a liver nose. If you stood her "red" dog next to a "red" with the same coat color but a black nose then it would mean she has an Apricot coated dog as yellow can be expressed with black AND liver pigment. 

I do not see why y'all do not understand that there are NO red Poodles, you have dark colored Apricots who do not fade or you have dark sables who do eventually fade. 

I do not know everything about poodle colors but I have read everything I can find on the subject.


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## IPP (Nov 29, 2008)

wow...

:lalala:
eep:


eace:
:grouphug:


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

It is true about the reds all being apricot, but different shades, some affected by the dilute gene and others not. Even a deep deep red is in fact an apricot, as is a cream or a white, according to DNA, but the tips ie nose skin lips pads of feet, are liver OR black. they can have either. If you mix a brown dog with an apricot dog you can get the wrong color tips to go with a different color dog. normally if the red (apricot) dog is bred to a brown the tips have a chance of being the wrong color, liver on apricot, which is a major fault for AKC conformation. 
Everything I try to say here I can back up with quotes among quotes from the poodle DNA books. Unless I'm not typing clearly what I'm thinking.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> It is true about the reds all being apricot, but different shades, some affected by the dilute gene and others not. Even a deep deep red is in fact an apricot, as is a cream or a white, according to DNA, but the tips ie nose skin lips pads of feet, are liver OR black. they can have either. If you mix a brown dog with an apricot dog you can get the wrong color tips to go with a different color dog. normally if the red (apricot) dog is bred to a brown the tips have a chance of being the wrong color, liver on apricot, which is a major fault for AKC conformation.
> Everything I try to say here I can back up with quotes among quotes from the poodle DNA books. Unless I'm not typing clearly what I'm thinking.


Right, so what were we arguing about? :lol:


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

in my mind red is red! haha.. 
izza:
Lets have some pizza


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

I want to share with Pamela a link to a wonderful Poodle names cedar who is red with the liver tips, 
http://www.harmonyhuntingpudels.com/Cedar.html

Cedar JH (AKC Junior Hunter), SR (NAHRA Started Hunting Retriever) AKC PR07235305

Cedar is a wonder dog. There are only around 13 poodles in the US that have achieved a SR Hunt title. 
This dog lives with "trigger"


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Well after Chicky Chat explained, wouldn't that make Pam's Spoo a dark apricot with liver points weither its recognized by AKC or not?


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> Well after Chicky Chat explained, wouldn't that make Pam's Spoo a dark apricot with liver points weither its recognized by AKC or not?


I think so ! 

Anyways I been talking to susan cook and she has been telling me more about reds poodles. She is very knowledgeable. She showed me pictures of some of the dogs she is working with. 

I also found a breeder who will be having puppies that is black. The Dam has some dogs in the pedigree that will compliment Enzo's pedigree. ( if we decide to breed him) If we don't breed her to Enzo I could stud her out to a red and work from there. 

Her is the mother http://www.highfalutinpoodles.com/dellapage.html

she told me she is breeding her to CH Feldspar Midnight Oil

here are some of the red's susan has shown me 








[/IMG]


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## tannerokeefe (Dec 14, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> I think so !
> 
> Anyways I been talking to susan cook and she has been telling me more about reds poodles. She is very knowledgeable. She showed me pictures of some of the dogs she is working with.
> 
> ...


dont you mean apricot?? lol just kidding!! couldnt resist with all of this drama.........:llama:


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Thats great that you got in touch with Susan. From what I know of her so far and the way she's treated me, I really like her as well. 

Thats a very pretty Red (Apricot...lol) Poodle. Sounds like your heading in a good direction for a new puppy. Hope it works out and you get a puppy soon.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> Thats great that you got in touch with Susan. From what I know of her so far and the way she's treated me, I really like her as well.
> 
> Thats a very pretty Red (Apricot...lol) Poodle. Sounds like your heading in a good direction for a new puppy. Hope it works out and you get a puppy soon.


tannerokeefe & secreto lol 

I had more pictures but my comp was acting funny ! his name is hogan here are more pics of him


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

here is a female pup she told me she will be working with as she grows


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> I want to share with Pamela a link to a wonderful Poodle names cedar who is red with the liver tips,
> http://www.harmonyhuntingpudels.com/Cedar.html
> 
> Cedar JH (AKC Junior Hunter), SR (NAHRA Started Hunting Retriever) AKC PR07235305
> ...


thank you for the link - Cedar looks a lot like Ginger. She will always be my redhead and her akc pedigree says red.


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

there is no diubt in my mind that the red poodles with black points are more beautiful. Just thought I would clarify that. But I wuv my Gingy girl - AKC name Gingerbread.:whoo:


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> Thats great that you got in touch with Susan. From what I know of her so far and the way she's treated me, I really like her as well.
> 
> Thats a very pretty Red (Apricot...lol) Poodle. Sounds like your heading in a good direction for a new puppy. Hope it works out and you get a puppy soon.


Yeah Susan is very nice , I will be keeping in touch with her. she told me about DNA testing for the fading gene and where to have it done. I think Enzo has the fading Gene his mom is apricot out of black parents and his dad is red and he faded a little.


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

Purple Poodle said:


> Pam has an Apricot (yellow) dog with a liver nose and a Brown dog with a liver nose. If you stood her "red" dog next to a "red" with the same coat color but a black nose then it would mean she has an Apricot coated dog as yellow can be expressed with black AND liver pigment.
> 
> I do not see why y'all do not understand that there are NO red Poodles, you have dark colored Apricots who do not fade or you have dark sables who do eventually fade.
> 
> I do not know everything about poodle colors but I have read everything I can find on the subject.


ok so Teddy is brown not silver beige? and ginger is apricot or yellow? too confusing to me lol


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

The puppies Paris is having will be deep red and should all be non diluting. I'm going to have them all tested for the dilute gene. 
I wonder if that poo is related to Trigger?


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> The puppies Paris is having will be deep red and should all be non diluting. I'm going to have them all tested for the dilute gene.
> I wonder if that poo is related to Trigger?


Have you tested Paris and is Trigger tested ? If so no need to test puppies not unless Paris is Dd and trigger is Dd . If they are then you have to test all the pups because some will fade. If Paris is DD and so is trigger all pups should be DD.


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

Paris is dd and trigger is probably DD so I'm testing them to be sure.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> Paris is dd and trigger is probably DD so I'm testing them to be sure.


Well all pups will be Dd …… they should not fade.
When you breed the pups just breed them to DD dog , you should be good. If I knew what Enzo's parents genes where I would probably not test him but I don't so I have to test them.

Simple genetics are a sure thing lol


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

Trigger hasnt been tested, so we are assuming DD, he might be Dd but doubtful
Tis why im testing


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> Trigger hasnt been tested, so we are assuming DD, he might be Dd but doubtful
> Tis why im testing


O!!!! Why didn't the breeder test Trigger ? 
Well he might be Dd since he has terry's dogs in his pedigree. I have a question for you then. Why do you keep posting the pups will be deep red and not fade ? Trigger is not tested so how do you know the pups will be deep red and not fade ?


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

Because Lori says Trigger is DD , I just always assume nothing until im totally convinced.
anyway, does that really matter to you?


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> Because Lori says Trigger is DD , I just always assume nothing until im totally convinced.
> anyway, does that really matter to you?


I only asked because I was interested in your puppies but you are not even sure how the puppies will come out and you just keep posting this info as fact ( in almost every post ). I would not be posting such info not unless I knew for sure it’s kind of dishonest to buyers looking for reds that don’t fade. I know you said Triggers breeder said he is DD but how does she know? So in reality he could be Dd and the pups could fade or not be deep red.


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

That's why im having them tested. They will all be Dd I truely believe. 

That pretty red dog in the first picture, his name is Hogan. This dog is out of Sheldon (owned by Carolyn Carroll) and Susan's Rose. She is planning on breeding one of her red pups to him in the future.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

WOW CHICKY CHAT.....LOL op2:

If Im wrong please correct me but probably the reason Lori at Harmony believe's Trigger is DD is because he was much lighter as a puppy, got very dark as he matured and maintained his color. Also, would Lori consider just having Trigger tested instead of you individually testing the puppies? Maybe she'll split the cost if you recommend it....who knows. Im sure you have already thought about that rather then having all the puppies tested. Either way will work but I was just curious.:smile:


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> WOW CHICKY CHAT.....LOL op2:
> 
> If Im wrong please correct me but probably the reason Lori at Harmony believe's Trigger is DD is because he was much lighter as a puppy, got very dark as he matured and maintained his color. Also, would Lori consider just having Trigger tested instead of you individually testing the puppies? Maybe she'll split the cost if you recommend it....who knows. Im sure you have already though about that rather then having all the puppies tested. Either way will work but I was just curious.:smile:


Yes this is why I asked it Trigger was tested ... It would make more sense to have her test trigger than for Chicky to test all of the pups ... that test is expensive. $78 bucks for each puppy ..... I am sure she will go half with you to have Trigger tested.


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## spoofan (Dec 11, 2008)

Here is some interesting info on the reds:
--------------------------------------------
Deep and rich, a clear red very distinctly different from apricot. Some pups 
who start off as Red can fade into a dark apricot or even in some instances 
a light apricot with dark shading around the eyes and nose. Usually those 
who fade so dramatically have ancestors who were silver or blue.

Although the Red color has existed in the Miniature and Toy Poodle for 
quite some time, the Red color is very new to the Standard Poodle. 

Red was introduced into the Standard Poodle by a breeder in Oregon, 
Palmares Kennels, and Shangri- La in New York. 

These two breeders bred a small english apricot Standard female with an 
over-sized red Miniature The first litter had 4 red babies. The color was a 
perfect red but the problem came later on. The heads were Standard 
Poodles, the legs short like Miniature Poodles.

It took many years of selective breeding to get the correct proportions, size 
and temperament of the Standard Poodle. 

When looking for a RED Standard Poodle it is imperative to ask for the 
pedigree of the parents to see that the dogs go back to either Palmares or 
Shangri-La. If NEITHER kennel name is in the pedigree then it is likely NOT 
a red but an apricot. 

Due to the increased popularity in the REDS many back-yard breeders are 
selling Apricot pups as REDS.


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

Thanks Spoofan That was very interesting. 
I looked and Paris didn't have any of those two kennels in her pedigree that I have. But Trigger has both Shangri-la and palmares


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

spoofan said:


> Here is some interesting info on the reds:
> --------------------------------------------
> Deep and rich, a clear red very distinctly different from apricot. Some pups
> who start off as Red can fade into a dark apricot or even in some instances
> ...


Ginger has Shangri-La in her pedigree from her father Crackerjack of Leatherstocking Kennel - I almost bought from Ilse at SL but ner dogs were very big!


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

To continue about Shangrila - that was my introduction to standard poodles. Ilse brought out two dogs for me to see and I thought - my goodness they are like little ponies the way they prance - I was amazed! But her red boy Patrick was almost as big as me and I thought that all spoos would be like that. I accidentally came across the smaller standard and found my way to Leatherstocking. Now that I have had two spoos I think I could have handled a dog like Patrick. Such personality - I just love spoos! adly Ilse passed away right after that - very sad - she was so alone but for her beloved dogs. I wish I had known her beetter. She was actaully feeling very ill the day I went to see the dogs. too ill to show the puppies or maybe I owuld have gotten one from her. She was just able to come out on the porch with two of her dogs and they were loose but obedient. Patrick was the same color red as Ginger. Ginger's mother was also red but I don't remember if she had black or liver points. Crackerjack had black. interesting coincidence because I just found out from Poodle Planet that Crackerjack has Shangrila in his line.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

All True Red standard poodles will have Shangri-la and palmares in their pedigree. Enzo has the same lines as well.I can't wait to talk to this other breeder Susan told me will be having a red litter in a few months  she has a website but she does not update it and its not that good lol http://www.mithrilstandardpoodles.com/


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

Trigger is now being tested for the dilute gene!


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## Barney's Mom (Feb 25, 2009)

My opinion is that you won't find more conscientious, honest, ethical standard poodle breeders anywhere than Susan Cook http://marquisdiamondstandardpoodles.com and Lori Horst http://harmonyhuntingpudels.com. They are not only knowledgeable and incredibly helpful, they are lovely people with a deep and abiding affection for their dogs, and I was lucky to have found them. I was looking for red, Susan had just sold her last one, and she directed me to Lori. Both of our poodles came from HM. Our light-apricot Barney's sire is Susan's Am/GR CH Antigua Don't Look Back, "Val." Lt-red/apricot Sacha's mama is HM's Dazzling Daisy and her sire is the adorable Trigger. Sacha looks exactly like Trigger, color and all. From what the late Ilse Konig wrote on her site, red standards have yet to attain the larger size of other more standard colors. Has anyone found an actual red standard that is taller than 24"?


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

oh how great !! TRIGGER!!! Isn't he wonderful!! I'm so glad you know lori and susan! Now I feel like we are related!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Barney's Mom said:


> My opinion is that you won't find more conscientious, honest, ethical standard poodle breeders anywhere than Susan Cook http://marquisdiamondstandardpoodles.com and Lori Horst http://harmonyhuntingpudels.com. They are not only knowledgeable and incredibly helpful, they are lovely people with a deep and abiding affection for their dogs, and I was lucky to have found them. I was looking for red, Susan had just sold her last one, and she directed me to Lori. Both of our poodles came from HM. Our light-apricot Barney's sire is Susan's Am/GR CH Antigua Don't Look Back, "Val." Lt-red/apricot Sacha's mama is HM's Dazzling Daisy and her sire is the adorable Trigger. Sacha looks exactly like Trigger, color and all. From what the late Ilse Konig wrote on her site, red standards have yet to attain the larger size of other more standard colors. Has anyone found an actual red standard that is taller than 24"?


Yes I been talking to Susan and she suggested Carolyn so I know I am in good hands 

As for any reds being 24 inches I will ask Terry @ farleyD and see what he has bred and ask how tall they are etc.. Cello looks like a pretty good size and his kids have been placing and winning world wide


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## Barney's Mom (Feb 25, 2009)

Carolyn at Mithril?


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## Barney's Mom (Feb 25, 2009)

Of course we're related -- thru our kids! LOL!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Barney's Mom said:


> Carolyn at Mithril?


Yes I should be calling her and Terry again on friday I will let you guys know what happens. I am still working on my bf's approval. This is why I want to take Enzo with his dogs to the lake soon. lol


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## Barney's Mom (Feb 25, 2009)

Carolyn's yet another good breeder. They're only a half-hour drive from my hometown. 

We just took our poodles to the beach and they loved it! Didn't go in the water, though - maybe it was too cold. Good luck on the lake! Tell Enzo he'd better act like a retriever!


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## Barney's Mom (Feb 25, 2009)

I was totally wrong about the current size of red poodles -- sorry about that. On shangrilapoodles.com, Ilsa Konig wrote that there are now reds up to 26"- don't know why I thought she said 24". 27" at the shoulder is the tallest of AKC's height standard, but I read somewhere that European poodles can be much taller and still compete in the show ring.


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## VirgilIantu (Apr 13, 2009)

Awesome, that's sweet! palmares assurance vie​


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

Congratulations to Barney! Out Newest UKC CHAMPION!!!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> Congratulations to Barney! Out Newest UKC CHAMPION!!!


Who is that ?


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

Barney's Moms S'poo. He finished this weekend


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> Barney's Moms S'poo. He finished this weekend


O ok I first I thought he was one of your dogs that we didn't know about  , Congrats Barney;s Mom Now you have to post picture ! what color is Barney ?


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## Barney's Mom (Feb 25, 2009)

Barney's light apricot, 26 1/2" at the shoulder, and will celebrate his 1st birthday this Saturday. Should I bake a cake and take it to dog class? And how in the heck do I post a picture?


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## Barney's Mom (Feb 25, 2009)

*Thanks, Lisa!*

Lisa, you were sweet to tell the poodle world about Barney! He had a ball, even at Friday's show when it poured all day.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

You can either upload them with photobucket.com or attach them to your post The attachment button is right next to the smile face on the right ( paperclip icon)


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

I'm so proud of both of you Lynn. And he championed all in one weekend didn't he?


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## Barney's Mom (Feb 25, 2009)

He did indeed! We were really surprised -- didn't expect anything, thought it would be good experience for the future.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Congrats on your wins and your new champion. Did you show him yourself and is he your first champion? Please post pics too!


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## poodleit (Dec 10, 2008)

Congratulations!!!!!


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## Barney's Mom (Feb 25, 2009)

My husband showed him - Bob can run (or trot, I guess) faster than I can! We just took him to the show to get experience, never expected him to win. It was fun, a UKC show not AKC. I could never show my dogs AKC -- they love to run up and down the mountain, in the brambles.....no manes or show coats for them. I'll post a picture when I figure out how to do it. Ah, you mean I've gotta read directions???

We'll be breeding Barney to Sacha in about 1 1/2 years. Sacha's red, 6 months old.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Barney's Mom said:


> My husband showed him - Bob can run (or trot, I guess) faster than I can! We just took him to the show to get experience, never expected him to win. It was fun, a UKC show not AKC.


That is Awesome ! I know you must have felt great when you got the win !

Enzo's first show is this sat !!! we are so excited and scared lol only 12 poodles are entered but I don't know if all 12 poodles are coming. Every one is at the PCA nationals so less poodles will be at this show


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## Barney's Mom (Feb 25, 2009)

GOOD LUCK to you and Enzo! 12 poodles is a lot more than we had to compete against, probably because it was raining like mad. Just HAVE FUN! I sure hope you win, but even if you don't, Enzo will love being there. Is this your first show, or just Enzo's first?


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Barney's Mom said:


> GOOD LUCK to you and Enzo! 12 poodles is a lot more than we had to compete against, probably because it was raining like mad. Just HAVE FUN! I sure hope you win, but even if you don't, Enzo will love being there. Is this your first show, or just Enzo's first?


No I been going to AKC dog shows for over ten years as a spectator, this will be Enzos first show and our first show actually exhibiting a dog so we are super nervous too.


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## Barney's Mom (Feb 25, 2009)

If you've been going to shows, then you are bound to look a whole lot less stupid showing than Bob and I did.


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## Barney's Mom (Feb 25, 2009)

Are you showing AKC or UKC?


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Barney's Mom said:


> Are you showing AKC or UKC?


We are going to a AKC show but will be showing him in UKC also. I only been to one UKC show so I am sure we will get confused in that ring


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## thestars (May 2, 2009)

A true red won't fade. Bindi has been DNA tested; BBeeDD is not affected by and does NOT carry the dilute gene, does not carry the brown gene, carries the cream-white-red-apricot with hidden black genes (Black Points). You have to look at the pedigree. Keep the apricots and other colors out. Check this line out, I'd have to say since it's one of the founding red lines and they've been color bred red for generations, you would get what you are looking for in a red. http://www.pasodoodle.com/poodles.html


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

thestars said:


> A true red won't fade. Bindi has been DNA tested; BBeeDD is not affected by and does NOT carry the dilute gene, does not carry the brown gene, carries the cream-white-red-apricot with hidden black genes (Black Points). You have to look at the pedigree. Keep the apricots and other colors out. Check this line out, I'd have to say since it's one of the founding red lines and they've been color bred red for generations, you would get what you are looking for in a red. http://www.pasodoodle.com/poodles.html


Yup , I already know what to look for , a pedigree really wont tell you anything with reds. You would have to see if the breeder colored test which is not widely done. I found 2 breeders I am working with that have what i am looking for.


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## BFF (Jun 10, 2009)

Roxy....I predict another poodle in your future!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

BFF said:


> Roxy....I predict another poodle in your future!


lol maybe 2 more. I been talking to a few breeders and they might want to use Enzo for breeding if he clear health test and gets a title. I would get a puppy out of it so no complaining there lol


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## mlm (Dec 26, 2009)

I am so sorry to learn of Ilse Konig's passing. I bought a wonderful dog from her back around 1988. A big silver......I am searching for a new standard now and thought I would contact her again...we have exchanged messages over the years occasionally.

What happened to her remaining dogs?

mlm


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

mlm said:


> I am so sorry to learn of Ilse Konig's passing. I bought a wonderful dog from her back around 1988. A big silver......I am searching for a new standard now and thought I would contact her again...we have exchanged messages over the years occasionally.
> 
> What happened to her remaining dogs?
> 
> mlm


i believe ilse's dogs are in schenectady ny now - if you go on the shangrila websie it gives the new address - otyherwise its her same site - her friends took the dogs when she passed - most of them that is


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## mlm (Dec 26, 2009)

Thanks for the update re.: Ilse's dogs.

MLM


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## FVpoodles (Jan 4, 2010)

> 27" at the shoulder is the tallest of AKC's height standard, but I read somewhere that European poodles can be much taller and still compete in the show ring.


Just a bit of info from "the other side" - 27" is 68 cm - and the FCI standard has an ideal of 60 (that's 23.5") with a tolerance of 2 cm. So the tallest any Standard in Europe is allowed to be is 24", and it's quite firmly regulated as well so hugely oversized dogs never really get anywhere. My red boy is 23" but when we were showing the judges always pulled out the bar as he looked so huge with his hair


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## leke poodles (Nov 8, 2010)

*Hi*

Hi,
Im Tina from leke poodles. If you have any questions about my line please contact me. Im happy to answer any questions you may have.
Thanks,
Tina


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

This is an old thread, Kerry (Roxy) has since shipped a bitch from another country. She went through a very nice, legit breeder.


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## Kloliver (Jan 17, 2012)

roxy25 said:


> Yup , I already know what to look for , a pedigree really wont tell you anything with reds. You would have to see if the breeder colored test which is not widely done. I found 2 breeders I am working with that have what i am looking for.


Hello Roxy,

Via PM, wld u pls share your knowledge of the red breeders you found who were willing to work you for optimum colour stability. I'd like to add another male to the pack in not her year or so (when Rango is over 2 yrs old)


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## Kloliver (Jan 17, 2012)

Ugh, let's try that again : 'in another year or so'


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

This thread is ancient... I don't think roxy is part of this forum anymore.


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