# 6 month old poodle??



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

pagan-poodle said:


> Iv seen a 6 month old poodle in a petshop i know i shouldnt buy from a pet shop but he looks healthy and so sad,I havent bought him yet because i wanted to ask advice first.
> I asked the petshop owner why he is 6 months old,he said because he bought them cheaper because of their age.
> What do you guys think?/how hard will it be to toilet train a 6 month old??easy or hard or no different to a tiny puppy?the man said he is peeing and pooing on paper?
> 
> ...



Please do not buy from a petshop. I know it seems sad and you want to save them but most of these puppies come from puppy mills or BYB's.

He may seem healthy but you do not know if his parents where healthy dogs as adults. You will not see any genetic diseases until he is mature. 

I am sure we can all help you find a good breeder to get a puppy from.


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## pagan-poodle (Sep 30, 2008)

I know what your saying and i wouldnt normally even think about it,but i went in to buy a new dogs bed and saw him looking at me with sad eyes I dont want to leave him there its cruel  what can i do


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

That's soo sad. I understand where both of you are coming from. Thats exactly why I can't even shop at store's that sell puppies. I can't take seeing them and I want to tell of the pet store employee's for what they are doing. 

Its hard because they are a animal thats already produced and needs a change from a crappy life of living in a pet store window. Also, if you buy it then it's profit to the person who bred that dog to keep producing more. 

Its very sad either way. Save the puppy and then burn down the pet store. lol 

Im just kidding everyone !!!!


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## pagan-poodle (Sep 30, 2008)

Can you also tell me how young can i get a males balls chopped??As if i get this pup i need to do it asap,any advice really,I want to save his life.
Its not fair he is in the pet shop.
Can i train him to be clean or is it too late?


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## jester's mom (Nov 25, 2008)

Be aware that the owner of the shop will tell you anything in order to make a sale. They will tell you that the dog is housebroken, or almost so, or that the dog is this or that, or come up for excuses for why the dog is still there.  

A six month old may well take longer to house train and may also take longer to bond if it has been in a kennel all its life. It takes long enough to get an older puppy/adult to get settle into your life and routine even if they were a pet in someones home, let alone one that has never been socialized at all.

I completely understand your feeling for the puppy, I too let my heart lead me into purchasing a pup from a pet shop I get my pet products from. My sister and I had our mom out for the day (she has alzhiemer's and is in a nursing home) and she fell in love with the pup and since he was a toy poodle I felt that it would be perfect for taking him to see her. He turned out to be perfect for traveling and nursing home visiting as I figured by his personality he would. BUT......

As much as I love this guy to death (yes, it is Jester, my toy poo boy) and would not trade him for any other dog in the world, I will never, ever do it again. He did have fleas and gave tap worms to my other dog and cats and my sister's dogs and it went through all of them which we had to pay a lot of money for the special meds to get rid of the tap worms. All of our dogs/cats are always on flea/tick monthly drops, but his fleas biting them (before they died) passed it on. Other than having his pedigree and pics of his parents, I know nothing about his background or parents and thus know nothing about if I may have problems down the road. The place this pet shop gets their pups from is monitored by the FDA and I checked on them and found that they were put down as a clean facility with cared for dogs... BUT, I know, with honest thinking, that that does NOT mean that the parents are given the individual attention that they deserve, nor does it mean that the parents may not pass down hereditary problems. I feel guilty that I fell for what my heart said and not my mind and would never do this again. I absolutely despise puppy mills and should NEVER have purchased from the pet shop. Even though I would not trade Jester for any other dog at this time, if I were to go back in time, I would not purchase him for the simple reason that I know that it only perpetuates those breeders to breed more and thus have adults that are not loved and cared for as they should be (and in most cases, the parents are horrifically treated and only kept in cages to be bred) Yes, if any of you want to flame me, I understand, and I have my suit on. :shot:

All of my sister's and my standard poodles have come from good breeders that their dogs live in the house with them and the parents are tested. I highly, HIGHLY suggest that you take this route and you will never regret it. You will get to see the parents, get to know the background of your new friend, and will not be perpetuating BYB if they can't sell their pups. Obviously the decision is up to you, but having fallen into this 'going with the heart over the mind' decision myself, I can say that going to a breeder that has their breeders as house pets/companions is the best way to get any puppy!! I hope you reconsider this and look for a breeder around you. I am not saying that that 6 month old doesn't deserve a loving home also, only that every time a puppy gets sold from a pet shop, the places that supply these puppies are able to breed more and thus put more dogs into awful living conditions. Take it from someone who fell into the trap and regrets having done that. BTW, Jester has been neutered, he will always be my loving sweet boy buy I will never do that again!!


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## pagan-poodle (Sep 30, 2008)

Im so torn over this my mind is saying no but my heart is saying yes,i cant stop thinking about how he was looking at me


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## gwtwmum2 (Sep 14, 2008)

I don't want to sound harsh - but if you buy this puppy, you ARE keeping puppy mills alive. Think of this puppy's parents. Who knows what space they are kept in, what filth they may be forced to live in, what does their coat look like?
It is sad for this puppy to be in the petstore, but really - he is not the one that is truly suffering here. If you buy him - you have voted with your money to keep his parents in the conditions they are in. Our money is our voice and our vote. It is what REALLY speaks. Please don't vote for a puppymill by buying this dog.
The harder it is for stores to sell their puppies, THAT is the way the owners are going to listen and stop ordering more.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

gwtwmum2 said:


> I don't want to sound harsh - but if you buy this puppy, you ARE keeping puppy mills alive. Think of this puppy's parents. Who knows what space they are kept in, what filth they may be forced to live in, what does their coat look like?
> It is sad for this puppy to be in the petstore, but really - he is not the one that is truly suffering here. If you buy him - you have voted with your money to keep his parents in the conditions they are in. Our money is our voice and our vote. It is what REALLY speaks. Please don't vote for a puppymill by buying this dog.
> The harder it is for stores to sell their puppies, THAT is the way the owners are going to listen and stop ordering more.


I agree I am so happy that my local mall in Beverly Hills shut down its petshop inside the mall. We had protesters and we got people to stop buying from them. The pet shops have become smarter, so smart that the people do not know these dogs comes from puppymills. They will post a breeders name and location to make the buyers believe they got the dog from a breeder. No reputable breeder would sell to a petshop.


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## starkeeper (Jan 27, 2009)

You can not tell by looking at a dog if it is healthy.

There are so many genetic issues that come from poor breeding (blindness, lameness, diabetes, ectopic ureter, more)

The age of the dog is probably due to the original breeder not selling the pup and handling them over to the pet shop to clear them out.

There is nothing cuter than a pup in a pet shop though, I must admit!


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## pagan-poodle (Sep 30, 2008)

Im going to tell you all a story.

There was once a reputable breeder of oriental and siamese cats,well spoken of,her cats were champions and grand champions.
You couldnt get a nicer person or so i thought.

Well as the story goes,there was a kitten she had recommended to me,said he was of the top most show quality,so i ventured out on the 3 hour drive to see the kittens.
She had 15 cats some were pregnant others not.A stud cat in a room of his own.All tidy and clean looking.
She showed me the kitten she said would do well on the show bench,so i reserved him,i kept in touch with this lady through the kitten growing up week by week.
Then it was time to collect him,after 3 days of having him home he started to sneeze and was sneezing blood,and not looking too well,so i took him to the vet and was given antibiotics,my other 3 siamese cats got this illness too,one of which got really ill she was a hand fed kitten i had from a accidental litter of 3(other 2 babies have gone to my best friend and my mum)I kept the baby as she was the runt and i nearly lost her as she wasnt feeding.Anyway to get back to the story she got sick and had to have some shots to help her on the road to recovery it took months,the kitten i got from this breeder i had since found out one of the litter mates had died and 2 of the others had been very ill like mine also i found out it was a mother to son breeding which i would not have had such a kitten.
I wasnt told this,also they had all had clymidia as kittens another thing that had been kept from me.
So many people had told me cut my losses and rehome this kitten,but no i wouldnt it wasnt his fault.
After time he got the runs and his stolls were never solid so he had biopsys and found to have a irritable bowl as well and also he has a protruding sterum and obviously can never be shown.
This cat cost me a lot of money to buy plus the vets expenses.
Now to me this breeder was no better that a glorified byb i was very disapointed.
Now all my cats are well this cat is on a speacil diet of which he has to stay on all his life.
Now this pet shop can be one of two things puppys are byb,or a breeder who couldnt sell the pups hence there were 2.
How can you ever really know if some one is reputable or not??My spirits were very low after that happening top me,
so that is the moral of the story which is better?I see niether.
I dont know what im going to do about this puppy,i am going to go back and take a friend with me who will tell me if im doing the wrong thing,I shall see what he is like with me i shall sit on the floor i will soon know if this puppy can be saved.
I hope what ever i decide that I will get your blessing.
I love animals and hate to see suffering maybe i will win the lottery one day and open a rescue that would be a nice thought.


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## Mandycasey'smom (Jan 3, 2009)

We all know she is going to get this puppy so lets not put it down lets show her how to train an older boy lets love him like we love all poodles and if he gets sick if he has problems we will help her with those that arise.

Who can resist sweet pitiful puppy dog eyes and this puppy did nothing to deserve the crappy start in life he got be we can all help through this site make sure the rest of his life is wonderful


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

Mandycasey'smom said:


> We all know she is going to get this puppy so lets not put it down lets show her how to train an older boy lets love him like we love all poodles and if he gets sick if he has problems we will help her with those that arise.
> 
> Who can resist sweet pitiful puppy dog eyes and this puppy did nothing to deserve the crappy start in life he got be we can all help through this site make sure the rest of his life is wonderful


Wonderfully said, you have a beautiful heart.


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## Blue Fox (Oct 22, 2008)

Lovely sentiment Mandycasey'smom BUT I can't help thinking then we too are perpetuating the pet shop purchase. All I can say is - pagan-poodle if you won't take the good advice from this forum about NOT purchasing this puppy then I can't see why you would take further good advice about raising, training and the health problems which may arise. 

Save your concern for the dogs living in puppy mills, because if you buy this pup YOU are responsible, first hand, for contributing to their misery and keeping dogs in these conditions. If you don't know what it is your supporting by buying this pup Google puppy mills and take a look at the photos.


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## gwtwmum2 (Sep 14, 2008)

Blue Fox - I completely agree with you. The story of a bad breeder (which is sad, I'm sorry it happened) doesn't change the fact that puppy mills need to be stopped. 
It is one thing to make an uninformed decision - it is another to know facts and ignore them.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

gwtwmum2 said:


> Blue Fox - I completely agree with you. The story of a bad breeder (which is sad, I'm sorry it happened) doesn't change the fact that puppy mills need to be stopped.
> It is one thing to make an uninformed decision - it is another to know facts and ignore them.


I also agree


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## Blue Fox (Oct 22, 2008)

gwtwmum2 said:


> It is one thing to make an uninformed decision - it is another to know facts and ignore them.


I'm with you on that gwtmum2. Look I'm no saint, I too have been the culprit of buying a pet shop pup back when I was 16 years old and didn't know the difference. Ignorance is bliss as they say, but now I am informed and it is making me really quite angry that we are thinking about glossing over this purchase - IT IS WRONG and sugar coating it for the sake of being polite is not going to prevent the further pain and suffering of puppy mill dogs! 

It really is very simple if everyone ignored the pleading eyes of the pet shop puppy and no more where sold, not one more puppy, the pet shops would not buy these dogs from the puppy mills. It's supply and demand - no demand from the buying public and hence the pet shops, means they will stop breeding them.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

There is this petshop in another mall by my school and every time my friends and I go in there the puppies are always sick. 

I always try to help people finding the right breeder Instead of going the petshop route. 

I know you want the puppy but I advise that you don't buy him or her. 
With the money of buying that puppy you could have saved a dog from the shelter who will lose its life soon.

I noticed you live in the UK here is a great start on more info about Poodles 

http://standardpoodleclub.com/welcome.html
http://www.poodlecouncil.co.uk/

here is a complete list of clubs to find breeders 
http://www.poodlecouncil.co.uk/breedclubs.htm


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

I have a question for the breeders on this forum. Are you AKC registered? Do you finish your dogs' championship before breeding your them? Are your dogs health tested before they are bred?


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

*So sad *



Poodle Lover said:


> I have a question for the breeders on this forum. Are you AKC registered? Do you finish your dogs' championship before breeding your them? Are your dogs health tested before they are bred?


I breed a different breed - but will answer your questions anyway 
Breeders aren't AKC registered - the dogs are so no
You can register your kennel name so nobody else can use it within your breed but it's expensive and not worth the expense. AKC has a right to inspect anyone breeding and registering AKC puppies so being a registered kennel matters not. It is just a way of staking claim to your kennel name. 
Yes to the championships
Yes to the health testing - I wish everyone did complete health testing

This is such a sad story, I feel bad for the puppy too... I guess you have to pick the lesser of two evils.
1) Leave the puppy there for somebody else to buy and avoid supporting a possible puppymill or irresponsible breeder.
2) Purchase the puppy and give him a great home and wonderful life with the knowledge that because he was pruchased the petshop is encouraged beacuse they made the sell, and you've made room for yet another puppy from the same breeder to take his place. It's a pretty straightforward process. Petstore stock puppies as products just like anything else they sell. Once a product leaves the store another one is on order to take it's place. 

It isn't ideal either way you slice it


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

WonderPup said:


> I breed a different breed - but will answer your questions anyway
> Breeders aren't AKC registered - the dogs are so no
> You can register your kennel name so nobody else can use it within your breed but it's expensive and not worth the expense. AKC has a right to inspect anyone breeding and registering AKC puppies so being a registered kennel matters not. It is just a way of staking claim to your kennel name.
> *Yes to the championships
> Yes to the health testing - I wish everyone did complete health testing*


I too wish that more show breeders did what you do. :biggrin: To me it shows that you are in it for the love of the breed and to better the breed. 

My friend is looking for a Maltese breeder and I am helping her find a puppy from a reputable show breeder. What I discovered so far is that most show breeders (not all) do not do much/any health testing. When I ask if they certify the knees or test the adults for liver disease, the replies are usually NO! Now Maltese (just like Yorkies) are notorious for bad knees and rampant liver problems. According to research by Dr. Centers, 80% of all Maltese and Yorkies have some kind of liver problem. I told my friend to run as fast as she can from the breed, but she is dead set on a Maltese female. We live in California (San Francisco to be exact) and the going rate for a female maltese pet starts at $2,000.00 and goes way, way, way up!!!! It is not unusual to pay $2,500.00 to $3,500.00 for the little baby girl.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

I have only bred once since Ive began in the show world....late 2001. You best believe that every recommended health test for a Amstaff was complete and had passing scores on everything. All of my dogs have been registered AKC and in the beginning UKC (APBT'S) and on the one breeding we did there was to a contract to be signed for buyer's and we were to take the dog back at anytime the buyer couldn't keep the dog. Health guarantee on genetic defects and all.

To me if your going to breed a dog you need to be prepared for EVERYTHING that comes along with being a reputable breeder. You are responsible for every pup you have bred if something happen's to the buyer. Also...if I was to see any dog that I have bred was being mistreated meaning health, abuse, living in bad conditions, etc... I will take the dog back into my custody and that was in the contract too. 

We never ended up placing any pups as she only had one live puppy and it passed away at 1 day old. Everything was prepared and everyone that reserved a puppy agreed to this contract in advance.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Poodle Lover said:


> I too wish that more show breeders did what you do. :biggrin: To me it shows that you are in it for the love of the breed and to better the breed.
> 
> My friend is looking for a Maltese breeder and I am helping her find a puppy from a reputable show breeder. What I discovered so far is that most show breeders (not all) do not do much/any health testing. When I ask if they certify the knees or test the adults for liver disease, the replies are usually NO! Now Maltese (just like Yorkies) are notorious for bad knees and rampant liver problems. According to research by Dr. Centers, 80% of all Maltese and Yorkies have some kind of liver problem. I told my friend to run as fast as she can from the breed, but she is dead set on a Maltese female. We live in California (San Francisco to be exact) and the going rate for a female maltese pet starts at $2,000.00 and goes way, way, way up!!!! It is not unusual to pay $2,500.00 to $3,500.00 for the little baby girl.


Tell your friend to look outside the Bay. Most advertised dogs in the bay are significantly higher then the central valley. Also...most breeder's that advertise dogs that high really aren't selling them at that cost. This is the same for Standard Poodles. They are all listed between 2,000.00 and 3,000.00 from a show breeder but they're not really being sold for that. Its stupid but true.


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> Tell your friend to look outside the Bay. Most advertised dogs in the bay are significantly higher then the central valley. Also...most breeder's that advertise dogs that high really aren't selling them at that cost. This is the same for Standard Poodles. They are all listed between 2,000.00 and 3,000.00 from a show breeder but they're not really being sold for that. Its stupid but true.


I personally haven't seen any show maltese breeders advertise anywhere in Northern California. You can find them through Maltese Club of America or through word of mouth. The breeders that advertise in the papers and such are not very reputable.


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## pagan-poodle (Sep 30, 2008)

I am going to see the pup today with a open mind,i have lots of questions,I also want to see vacination papers because to take a pup at 6 months old with no jabs wouldnt be good.
If he has the jabs and looks in good health i shall buy him.
Im being honest here and flame me if you wish but I cant over look this poor boy and as some have said if i dont buy him some one else will,i have a soft heart for animals Its not the animals fault he was born into this doesnt he deserve a chance??
My cat cost me untold money to get better this isnt the issue here,arent we all surpose to be animal lovers poodles in particular?
I do disagree in puppy mills of course i do who wouldnt,I have a poodle from a breeder i wasnt looking to get another yet but this one stole my heart,i wish id never went in there to buy a dog bed now!!
Any way iv not comiited to getting this pup yet i have to see what its all about check paper work ect im not silly im 40 years old and i know about life.


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## Blue Fox (Oct 22, 2008)

How disappointing! What ever, I really can't be bothered continuing with this thread.


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## pagan-poodle (Sep 30, 2008)

Blue Fox said:


> How disappointing! What ever, I really can't be bothered continuing with this thread.


Well dont then no one asked you too!Whats disapointing here is how many people turn there backs on these animals they are innocent here I have been to the pet shop but I am not telling the outcome to anyone who wasnt really interested if anyone wants to know feel free to pm me.


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## pagan-poodle (Sep 30, 2008)

Blue Fox said:


> Lovely sentiment Mandycasey'smom BUT I can't help thinking then we too are perpetuating the pet shop purchase. All I can say is - pagan-poodle if you won't take the good advice from this forum about NOT purchasing this puppy then I can't see why you would take further good advice about raising, training and the health problems which may arise.
> 
> Save your concern for the dogs living in puppy mills, because if you buy this pup YOU are responsible, first hand, for contributing to their misery and keeping dogs in these conditions. If you don't know what it is your supporting by buying this pup Google puppy mills and take a look at the photos.


Does this puppy not deserve a happy life???I know what a puppy mill is thanks i dont need to look.I used to foster adult dogs from rescue I know about life!


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## Mandycasey'smom (Jan 3, 2009)

I hope all goes well and he finds a great home.
All of you bashing the pet store pups how do we know that perhaps it was from a a good home but couldn't sell because of econamy problems?
Your all saying support a breeder but arn't breeders that are breeding in these times making the problem worse as well. We have hundreds of dogs a day being givin up right now but great breaders with perfect dogs are still breeding and charging for these dogs.
We can't change the laws unless we fight them to ban puppy mills It is an explosive topic as some of the so called great breeders to me when you look closely are not but have great websites and lots of talk.

Lets agree to dissagree on where a dogs comes from but agree to learn enjoy and be the best poodle parent to the dogs we have regardless of where they come from.

Oh I am not a puppymill I have one from a woman who had a female and bred her and I have Casey OH Casey my boy who as it turns out is a puppy mill dog but I didn't read between the lines. am I smarter this time yes will i buy from a backyard/kitchen again sure.


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## pagan-poodle (Sep 30, 2008)

Mandycasey'smom said:


> I hope all goes well and he finds a great home.
> All of you bashing the pet store pups how do we know that perhaps it was from a a good home but couldn't sell because of econamy problems?
> Your all saying support a breeder but arn't breeders that are breeding in these times making the problem worse as well. We have hundreds of dogs a day being givin up right now but great breaders with perfect dogs are still breeding and charging for these dogs.
> We can't change the laws unless we fight them to ban puppy mills It is an explosive topic as some of the so called great breeders to me when you look closely are not but have great websites and lots of talk.
> ...


Here here wel said thank you 
some one who finally speaks with wisdom


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

To the person with the friend who is looking for a Maltese: I suggest you or your friend google "maltese forums." There is an excellent forum out there where breeders are discussed openly and I believe there is at least one highly respected show breeder in the bay area. They will be happy to give you the name on the forum. More importantly they will warn you about the unscroupulous ones. Things are more expensive in your part of the country and if price is that much of a concern, I suggest your friend either choose a male pup (which are cheaper b/c everyone seems to want a female) or travel out of state to pick up a puppy. You are very correct about liver issues in the breed and more and more breeders are doing the testing. If they don't do the testing on their own, which I agree they should, they should definately be willing to do so if you request it. Your friend should avoid any breeder who refuses. As far as I know, Maltese don't have the knee problems that a lot of toy breeds seem to have, but it's not a bad idea to have them checked anyway. 

I would hope that the OP will rethink their decision to buy a petstore puppy. You may not be "turning your back" on this pup, but you are most certainly turning your back on it's parents, siblings and any future puppies that come from that mill. I don't think we need laws to stop puppymill, it would be much easier if people would just stop supporting them. By buying a petstore puppy, you give them not only incentive to continue, but funds to fight against legislation. In any case, I hope you at least try to haggle the price down on this pup. The least amount of money the "puppy trafficers" get the better, IMO.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

I've not read all of the reply's, well I skimmed, anyway I wanted to state my 2 cents worth.

If you buy this puppy are you going to by the puppy that fills his spot as well?

Because you "saved" him another puppy will be put in his place from the same situation.

My opinion, don't buy him, tell your heart no and walk away.


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

ohh so sad - poor puppy - what did you do Pagan Poodle? you can im me if you want.


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## poopoodle (Mar 25, 2009)

i know it is sad, but buying from pet shops just supports puppy mills... and once you buy a dog from them, they will breed more to fill in the empty pen. as a dog volunteer at my local shelter, i am a HUGE supporter of adopting shelter dogs, especially because there are so many homeless dogs out there! and a lot of shelters will put a dog down after it has been there for a while... how much better would you feel knowing you saved a dog's life?


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## pagan-poodle (Sep 30, 2008)

Pamela said:


> ohh so sad - poor puppy - what did you do Pagan Poodle? you can im me if you want.


Have sent you a message


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## blakeenfan (May 4, 2009)

*Save him*

You obviously have a connection to this dog, and I think it's wrong NOT to get him just to deny $ to a mill. Those mills are going to make $ regardless, and I wouldn't sacrifice this dog's life for a moral stance, even a really really great one. You can't cuddle a principle!

Mills are horrendous, but don't worry, if we don't buy from them research labs will more than fill the void. Save the dog and then work to change the laws!

Blakeenfan


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

blakeenfan said:


> Mills are horrendous, but don't worry, if we don't buy from them research labs will more than fill the void. Save the dog and then work to change the laws!
> 
> Blakeenfan


_
Sounds like a good compromise to me but the hard part is getting people to actually work to change the laws. In a perfect world..... Thanks for suggesting something different._


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Changing the laws is the lazy way out IMO. We are the consumers and money talks. We don't have the will power or aren't responsible enough to research where our dogs come from, so we should have the lawmakers protect us from ourselves? The commercial breeders have a huge lobby and will be able to fight any legislation. Any laws that are passed, will be whittled down to where they only affect small scale BYBs and show breeders. As it stands now, in the U.S. most mills fall under the jurisdiction of the USDA (federal) and are subject to state or local laws.


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## pmdavis (May 6, 2009)

*So...*

Pagan,

I'm new to this forum, and just read through this thread.

I'm curious, did you get this puppy? and if so, how is he/she doing. As far as potty training a 6 month old, I would say with a poodle, it would be okay with a poodle ... now if it was a dog with less intelligence (like my Newfy mix) potty training would be a challenge.

Wishing you the best

p


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## animallvr (May 12, 2009)

Hi I've read through the thread and empathize with you 100%. When we went to look at our Gi Gi she was neither a BYB pup nor a PM pup...she was an oops...both parents were there. They could have been related, the owner wasn't going to offer the truth. There were two...it was so hard to leave just one, let alone both...we chose the more active of the two, paid and left....she had a slight case of worms and diarhea, but otherwise healthy...will she have problems later in life...don't know...but we will give her the best care we can...will this person let the older dogs breed again...?..probably. We spayed our pup. We can only be responsible for her. Do I detest puppy mills...yes...do I believe back yard breeders should be more responsible..yes...could I leave a pup in such horrid conditions....obviously not. It's a decision that will have it's consequinces...know in your soul are doing the right thing...and you probably are....


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

animallvr said:


> ... When we went to look at our Gi Gi she was neither a BYB pup nor a PM pup...she was an oops...both parents were there. They could have been related, the owner wasn't going to offer the truth....


That actually an excellent example of a BYB; an unknowledgable breeder who doesn't show, do health testing, research pedigrees, etc.


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