# Wait 6 months for rabies vaccine?



## CharismaticMillie

I personally prefer wait until at least 6 months. Be aware, however, that this could be breaking a law in some states. Also, as you said, it could prevent you from taking your dog to training/daycare. You have to make the best decision based on all of that.


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## Poodlemama99

I would go with vet recommendation and do it now. The vet should be the most knowledgable on what is okay and not okay. Good luck with training.


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## cookieface

I was in a very similar situation a few months ago. Katie was 6 months and I thought she would benefit from attending classes; however, her breeder recommended waiting until 9 months for the rabies vaccine. The vet was surprised she hadn't been vaccinated at 4 months. 

I posted about it here: rabies vaccine vs obedience classes and got some good advice. Additionally, I contacted the breeder and got her thoughts. Ultimately, I decided that the benefit of classes / additional socialization outweighed the risks of an early vaccine. Katie was 7 months when she was vaccinated. She did *not* have any other vaccines or medical procedures (e.g., spay) at the same time (her previous vaccine was at 16 weeks or so and her spay was several months later). 

CM makes a good point about the legal ramifications of an unvaccinated dog. It's a serious consideration.

Since she's 21 weeks, you might split the difference and get her vaccinated at 5 1/2 months - next week, if my calculations are correct. 

If you have friends with dogs you could arrange play dates so that Ziggy gets some exposure to other dogs. 

Raising dogs is hard. Some days I wish I didn't read / know / care so much


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## tortoise

Last week a rabid cat infected 10 people inthe USA. Rabies is invariably fatal for pets. Only 4 people have ever survived it. Rabies kills 55,000 people every year. Rabies is on the rise in the USA. Without vaccinations, there will be an outbreak.

Rabies is required by law by at the age of 16 weeks in WI, a booster 1 year later and then every 3 years. It is required in other states, but I couldn't list them. 




If you're thinking about minimal vaccine, go to youtube and watch videos of children and dogs dying from Rabies. It is horrifying and heartbreaking, and will probably change your opinion abbout Rabies vaccines.


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## katbrat

Lexi had her rabies by that age. I did space out the last of her boosters, just like I will do for her shots this year. One thing about doggy day care, the one place that offers it here, would not keep Lexi for daycare until she was spayed which I could understand and support.


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## tortoise

Alexasha said:


> I don't know what to do. Ziggy is 21 weeks and has all her core vaccines except rabies. She also needs Kennel Cough if I want to take her to dog runs or obedience classes or groomer... She also needs heartworm and fleas etc.
> I am completely confused because my breeder said not to give her rabies until after 6 months meanwhile my vet is saying there is no reason she can't have it now and recommends it. I live and work in NYC and I would like to not stall her development by keeping her away from other dogs. She is also unable to tolerate a crate, a gate and I can't leave her alone because she is in a chewing phase and I don't want her to hurt herself so I have been arranging for people to watch her and taking her to work but there is at least one or 2 days a week where I can't take her to work and I'd like to temporarily put her in a good day care but can't without her vaccines.
> I am working with a trainer to help her with her separation panic (she cannot tolerate being alone for more than 2 seconds, literally. We've tried crating her and she continually howled, rattled the cage, pooped, peed, and wouldn't even go near it despite all our efforts to make it a desirable place etc.
> I feel a little overwhelmed.
> Suggestions?


In NYC, you MUST get the Rabies vaccine for your dog. Raccoons and other wild animals with Rabies are found in and around Central Park. (Over 100 in 2011!!) It is definitely in the wild animal population. The highest risk is in Manhattan and Bronx. NYC is trapping and vaccinating raccoons in effort to curb this outbreak.


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## PaddleAddict

tortoise said:


> Rabies kills 55,000 people every year.


This is NOT true! At least not in the US: CDC - Rabies in the U.S. - Rabies


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## tortoise

PaddleAddict said:


> This is NOT true! At least not in the US: CDC - Rabies in the U.S. - Rabies


Did I write "in the USA"? No.

From the World Health Organization (WHO): http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs099/en/


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## PaddleAddict

tortoise said:


> Last week a rabid cat infected 10 people inthe *USA. * Rabies is invariably fatal for pets. Only 4 people have ever survived it. Rabies kills 55,000 people every year. Rabies is on the rise in the *USA.* Without vaccinations, there will be an outbreak.


Tortoise, since you spoke of rabies in the USA before and after the statistic it reads like you meant rabies kills 55,000 people every year in the USA. It's misleading.


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## GlennBaxterFamily

I found this website that might be helpful for those wondering about their state and the rabies vaccination. It was last updated on 12-28-2011 RABIES LAWS IN THE UNITED STATES as of 6/16/10

I try to follow Dr. Dodd's vaccination schedule. Tate (9 lb Miniature Schnauzer) got his rabies when he was 5 months old and he did ok with the shot. I also spaced out all of his shots by a couple of weeks and made sure that the rabies vaccine was not within a month of when we were going to get him neutered.

In my state we had a problem not with rabies and wild raccoons but rather with distemper!


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## liljaker

PaddleAddict said:


> This is NOT true! At least not in the US: CDC - Rabies in the U.S. - Rabies[/QUOTE
> 
> Maybe she was referring to the total number of rabies deaths on record.....ever.....definitely not that many in U.S. for sure.


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## liljaker

GlennBaxterFamily said:


> I found this website that might be helpful for those wondering about their state and the rabies vaccination. It was last updated on 12-28-2011 RABIES LAWS IN THE UNITED STATES as of 6/16/10
> 
> I try to follow Dr. Dodd's vaccination schedule. Tate (9 lb Miniature Schnauzer) got his rabies when he was 5 months old and he did ok with the shot. I also spaced out all of his shots by a couple of weeks and made sure that the rabies vaccine was not within a month of when we were going to get him neutered.
> 
> In my state we had a problem not with rabies and wild raccoons but rather with distemper!


I also follow the Dodd's vaccination schedule -- and since my vet is a holistic vet (also) she understands my preference.


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## liljaker

tortoise said:


> Did I write "in the USA"? No.
> 
> From the World Health Organization (WHO): WHO | Rabies


Well, that sort of has little relevance in this thread discussion -- worldwide? Third world countries?


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## mom24doggies

I, personally, would follow the laws of your state. Here in Texas, you are required to have the vaccination by 4 months, a booster 1 year later, then every 3 years after that IF you keep up with it. Unfortunately, I let Trev's vaccine get overdue by about 7 days...so now we have to do it again next year. 

I too try very hard not to over vaccinate, but as tortoise said, rabies is nothing to mess around with. Not only is it fatal for the animal, it endangers us humans. I feel that the safety benefits of having the vaccine outweighs the risks. Plus, if you get caught without a vaccination, there will be consequences for it.


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## tortoise

liljaker said:


> Well, that sort of has little relevance in this thread discussion -- worldwide? Third world countries?


No, it is very relevant. This would happen HERE if it were not for our access to Rabies vaccines and attempts to control wild (feral) and stray dog and cat popluations. If we stop vaccinating dogs, this disease will spread evven more.

(This phenomon is being observed in USA human populations where parents are choosing not to vaccinate their kids and the diseases are on the rise.)

Vaccine choices are more than our pets. It is a responsibility to public health. If your dogs bites and does not have a current Rabies vaccine, it is a dead dog. After it is euthanized, it's head will be cut off and sent to a state testing lab. If your dog is vaccinated the owner can try to do a Rabies quarantine for 10 days, but the victim can override that decision.

Your choices for vaccines for diseases that are specific to dog or cat species is your personal choice. But when we're talking about a zoonotic (can pass from dog/cat to humans)disease that is invariably fatal, our feelings about the vaccine is irrelevant.


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## tortoise

liljaker said:


> PaddleAddict said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is NOT true! At least not in the US: CDC - Rabies in the U.S. - Rabies[/QUOTE
> 
> Maybe she was referring to the total number of rabies deaths on record.....ever.....definitely not that many in U.S. for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> No, as stated above, 55,000 people die every year from Rabies. Source: WHO (World Health Organization.)
> 
> In the USA, about 6,000 animals are found to be rabid per year, even though the USA (government) spends $300 million dollars on Rabies prevent per year! I cannot find the number of human exposures, but human deaths in the USA from Rabies is rare. Source: CDC
Click to expand...


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## kdias

I value what the breeder says and what the vet says, and would consider both opinions, but would do what the law says. Rabies is on the rise, and I would be more afraid of rabies than the risk of the vaccination. We had a dog this past week locally that had to be euthanized because he had been attacked by a rabid skunk. A really sad story, the dog was in his own yard and even killed the skunk, but the dog could not be saved.


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## momtymztu

I don't have a poodle yet but do currently live with 2 toy dogs and am VERY cautious about vaccines, as we have experienced several vaccine reactions with various dogs(large and small) throughout the years. As several others have said, Rabies is a different situation because of the fatality of the disease and risk to humans as well. 

When it is time for Rabies vaccs around here I make sure to get ONLY that vaccine and not group it with any other vaccs/meds/procedures so there is as little stress on the body as possible. Also there is a holistic medication that my vet gives me to give the dog the day of/day after vacc and I believe another dose a week or so later...I think it is called "thuja" but I can't remember for sure. Supposedly it helps prevent a reaction. 

Good luck, those fist vaccinations can be scarier for us than they are for them.


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## tortoise

uhm, vaccine response/reaction is necessary to create immunity. (We wouldn't vaccinate if it didn't do anything.) I would not give anything to inhibit vaccine reaction unless the vet who is administering the vaccine recommends it.


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## CT Girl

I am very careful about vaccines and Swizzle gets only what is absolutely necessary. Rabies is the only shot that I don't have a big discussion with my vet about. It is the law - he has to have it. Rabies is getting more widespread in our area - you are not that far from me. This week a rabid fox attacked a couple of people and 2 or 3 dogs too. You just never know if the cute squirrel is going to infect your dog. You also can't get your dog licensed without a rabies certificate.


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## sulamk

It is required by law in South Africa and The Vet services go around every year vacinating Animals for free. By 4months pups must have their first shot.


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## Alexasha

Thanks everyone. Clearly I'm a first time dog owner... I always intended to vaccinate for rabies, of course, and as soon as I could, but was confused by the vet versus breeder disagreement about timing...
She should have had it before she even left the breeder, I realize now...


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## CharismaticMillie

tortoise said:


> uhm, vaccine response/reaction is necessary to create immunity. (We wouldn't vaccinate if it didn't do anything.) I would not give anything to inhibit vaccine reaction unless the vet who is administering the vaccine recommends it.


There is a difference between a vaccine response that enables immunity and a vaccine _reaction_ - a negative, possibly harmful side effect from vaccine administration. I think it's fairly obvious that vaccine reactions as they've been discussed in this thread refer to undesirable or harmful implications from the vaccine, not a vaccine response, or the establishment of immunity...


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## CharismaticMillie

tortoise said:


> No, it is very relevant. This would happen HERE if it were not for our access to Rabies vaccines and attempts to control wild (feral) and stray dog and cat popluations. If we stop vaccinating dogs, this disease will spread evven more.
> 
> (This phenomon is being observed in USA human populations where parents are choosing not to vaccinate their kids and the diseases are on the rise.)
> 
> Vaccine choices are more than our pets. It is a responsibility to public health. If your dogs bites and does not have a current Rabies vaccine, it is a dead dog. After it is euthanized, it's head will be cut off and sent to a state testing lab. If your dog is vaccinated the owner can try to do a Rabies quarantine for 10 days, but the victim can override that decision.
> 
> Your choices for vaccines for diseases that are specific to dog or cat species is your personal choice. But when we're talking about a zoonotic (can pass from dog/cat to humans)disease that is invariably fatal, our feelings about the vaccine is irrelevant.


I don't think that waiting until 6 months of age is going to cause an epidemic of Rabies in the US. In fact, Deleware, Iowa, Maine, Massachussetts, New Jersey, Tennessee and Vermont all allow rabies vaccines to be administered at 6 months. (TN at 7 months). Several states allow it done per manufacturer's guidelines or per local animal control. 

As far as dogs being euthanized and their heads cut off....:rolffleyes: Very few states require euthanasia if an unvaccinated dog bites and those that do, well, it's enforceability is questionable. 

Finally, as far as reduced vaccine protocols go. Studies have shown and continue to show that the rabies vaccine provides immunity for a minimum of 3 years. The rabies challenge fund Duration of Immunity Study for Rabies Vaccine - Rabies Challenge Fund would be a good website for youu to read, Tortoise. Many states currently allow medical exemptions from rabies vaccines. This is important for older dogs who have had enough rabies vaccines in their lives to have lifelong immunity or for those who have had severe vaccine reactions. Following a reduced vaccine protocol does not mean leaving dogs unprotected. It means finding the fine line between protection, over-vaccination and severe reactions.


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## Searcher

Today the BBC has an article on rabies -- geared toward UK but good general info & a map.

BBC News - Q&A: Rabies


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## zyrcona

tortoise said:


> (This phenomon is being observed in USA human populations where parents are choosing not to vaccinate their kids and the diseases are on the rise.)


Absolutely. At the current time, there is some sensible research (Dodds _et al_) about adverse reactions to vaccines and how these can be reduced while preserving immunity by administering these vaccinations less often. Unfortunately, this sometimes gets confused with conspiracy theories in which vaccinations get used as scapegoats for just about any disease that has an ambiguous cause, for which there is no evidence. Vaccinations are one of the most beneficial scientific advances in history, and they save lives, but as Dodds's research indicates, giving them over and over again is not necessary once immunity is established. The Dodds information I've read at any rate recommends rabies at six months _or _when your state law requires it if sooner.


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## A'n'A Mom

Actually, Dr. Dodds' Canine Vaccination Protocol–2011 has the first rabies vax to be given at "20 weeks or older, if allowable by law". Then, a rabies vax at age 1 year....not a year later. The rabies vax at 1 year should be given "3-4 weeks apart from distemper/parvovirus booster."

20 weeks is a little younger than 5 months.... You've got to give the vaccination. New York State law states any dog that reaches the age of 4 months has to be licensed....and you've got to have the rabies vax to get a license. We can disagree and argue about the appropriateness of age at vaccination and who's right or wrong until the cows come home, but the law is the law. 
IF, for any unexpected reason, Ziggy got picked up by Animal Control, and she doesn't have a rabies tag, they're more likely to think she doesn't have ANY shots and hit her with the whole freakin' poison shot cocktail at once. That really wouldn't be fair to her.

Might as well go ahead and get Ziggy vaccinated.

Just my two cents worth.....


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## cowpony

My vet also suggested that I wait until my pup was six months. She wanted me to be able to get onto a three year vaccination schedule sooner. Where I live, the first shot is good for one year. The second shot is good for three years as long as it occurs one year after the first shot. However, the first shot doesn't count if the pup got it younger than six months. The reason is there's a slight chance a younger pup still has antibodies from mom, and therefore the pup's immunity won't kick in on the first shot.

Here's a comparison of what waiting until 6 months does to the vaccination schedule, rounded off for convenience:
Four months, 16 months, 2 1/4 years 5 1/4 years
Six months, 1 1/2 years, 4 1/2 years, 7 1/2 years

I opted for early vaccination anyhow. I needed proof of vaccination to get my license, and we've got a pretty high level of rabies in local wildlife.


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