# 3,4,6,8



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Here's a few more. I am excited about the UKC show. They are so much fun and I don't feel too stressed about it. When she is near a year old, I plan to spay her at this point, but I haven't done it yet, so I can still show UKC regular puppy:


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

PS: I really think she is more of a light apricot rather than a dark cream, but she is registered as a cream.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

She looks very nice! I have a few grooming suggestions as her current trim is making her look long backed and short legged. Her back legs also look straight - and I don't think they really are. Trim the hair on the back of her back legs very, very close to the skin. Leave the hock hair long. I'd also like to see her feet more - personally I'd want the leg cuffs beveled more. Also, I would "move" her tuck-up forward by scissoring that area closer to her front end rather than so far back. This will make her back look shorter which is a more attractive look. That probably made no sense...I'm on my iPhone so I can't attach any pictures to clarify but I'll try to when I get home.

Good luck with her shows I think she will do fabulous!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

No, it did make sense! She measures square, so I know she isnt long backed, but her legs are not willowly long.  She has tons of curve in the rear, but a LOT of hair. Next groom I will ask for all the hair of her rear legs like you suggest. I am just doing UKC for fun. I don't plan on breeding her or anything. It is just fun.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

You are right. I am used to Henry and Tiger who are not square. Although measuring square does not always mean a dog is not long backed. Millie is nearly square, slightly taller than long by a fraction actually, but she looks long backed to me. So much goes into the appearance like layback, etc. Anyway, Bonnie looks great and I can't wait to hear how she does!!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I agree she appears long backed, I am not thinking she doesn't look that way. It is confusing because of the measurement, though! It is more than measurement, like you say. If I recall, their forelegs should be longer than their shoulder blade. So, her foreleg/shoulder combination- _proportions_ - could be off according to the standard, which is causing the look. At least, that is my current theory on it. Her rear legs are plenty long enouugh for her body. I will have her rear legs shaved down next week (oooo....scary). Then see how that looks before shaving down her front legs. Maybe shaving down her front legs will change it up, too. 

This is so funny because her sire, who had the mini great grandparent, had very long legs for his size while Bonnie's dam, with only standards, had the same sort of front legs that Bonnie has. Her dam had Eastern European ancestors bred in Canada before being brought to the US. She was athletic looking with muscle and chest, but not nearly the amount of leg that Bonnie's sire had, even though she was bigger. The breeder said she used her to get more chest and substance, which Bonnie did get, but not as much chest. Her sire was a typical American beauty in a slightly smaller package. 

I understand why, CM, you wanted to get a show dog. It is an awful lot of fun!! I didn't realize how much I missed it until I got Bonnie and realized I could do UKC with her.  I would love to get another dog with the same personality as The Bonster. That is her true strength. I just need to convince my husband I am not crazy...

Thanks for looking. I look forward to seeing more of the beautiful Tiger and following him through his journey. Keith, some day I would like to see yours, too.

I will have the groomer shave up more on her feet. I like her feet and you can hardly see them right now.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Wait wait don't shave higher on the feet just have the groomer bevel the cuffs more!


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## cavon (Aug 10, 2010)

I'm not a groomer, but here are a couple of things that might look good that I have learned from a groomer. 

- let the hair on her TK, mane and down her back grow longer, then when grooming clip on about a 45 degree angle up the back. This will shorten the look of her back and give you the angle that is popular today
- Right in front of her tail, clip the hair down to just 1/2 inch long to start the angle. This will make her tail set appear higher
- I would let her TK grow to blend into her ears - make it fuller - the hair from her TK will blend into the ear and they will not appear to have a high set then
- let the hair on her tuck up grow longer. You should be clipping to make a triangle from her elbow to the tuck up (just at her waist, right below the ribcage) to her knee.
- Scoop in on the back of her legs from just under the croup - so you see the "shelf" from her tail to the croup - right down to the top of her hock. This will give you the appearance of more rear angulation. She might have good angulation, but the long hair on the back of her legs is hiding it and making her look a bit straight in the stifle in some of the pictures.
- she seems to have a nice neck, so I would shave down a bit lower on the front so it really shows.
- she has pretty feet, so cut her legs a bit shorter so that they can be seen

just my thoughts - I have attached a picture, so hopefully if you look at it and your beautiful girl and read my comments you can see what I mean


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

Now truth is I'm just back from Michele who still grooming my bunch before a show (hey! she's the best! and I'm owner handling so I need the best! ha) but I would still add the following...

Take a look at Ora's pup in the picture posted. See how tight to the bottom of the chest the coat is cut? Your girl has fringe a bit below her elbows and you are loosing leg there. Bringing that tight to the bottom of the chest will show more leg - then the angle to the tuck up will also have to tighten and come up = shorter body appearance and more leg in the rear, too.

Good Luck

Tabatha
NOLA Standards


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## cavon (Aug 10, 2010)

NOLA Standards said:


> Take a look at Ora's pup in the picture posted.
> 
> Just to clarify in case anyone is wondering - the pup in the picture I posted is not Ora's, it comes from another breeder.


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

Sorry!

Too late to edit - and I only glanced (at the photo of the pup). Credit the breeder if you need - didn't mean to cause confusion!


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## cavon (Aug 10, 2010)

no problem, Tabatha! I used that picture because I thnk it shows the angles on the puppy cut well!

BTW - I was perusing the Jan - Mar 2011 Poodle Variety Handlers edition and saw a lovely 2 page spread of your red beauties!!! If you subscribe, Finnegan and I are in the June/July issue!! In a color thumbnail in the table of contents and in black and white in the article on lure coursing!! 

Crystal


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## Randi6567 (May 22, 2011)

*grooming*

where are you located in southern ca i work in hollywood i think you may need a different groomer if youre anywhere near hollywood im a groomer and a damn good one and also im starting to show my pup too and someone to relate would be nice heres a pic of my 5 month old pup in his 1st puppy trim his neck and hocks need some more growing but the lines have begun


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

What a beautiful pup and a wonderful groom! He is huge!  Bonnie is a small standard. I have been at once very happy with her groomer and also very frustrated. Every time I try to find a groomer that is willing to do something other than a shave down I am knocked down. At least Bonnie's groomer tries, although she doesn't 'get' it, Bonnie loves going to her and Stephie loves Bonnie, so that's worth something, too. 

You are about 40 minutes without traffic and up to a couple hours with traffic. I don't live in LA proper, just outside of it. What is the name of your shop? 

Maybe I will see you at an upcoming UKC show?


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## Randi6567 (May 22, 2011)

I work right at the base of the Hollywood hills at a shop called Tailwashers it hard to find a good groomer in the la area I'm not sure why we have been trying to hire someone forever and everyone is terrible! But at my shop we're all really good and have high standards but the prices are also high $125 for a standard poodle


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Yes, we have loads of groomers, but they are all pet type groomers OR they refuse to do anything but a quick and dirty shave and brush. I feel lucky I found someone willing to do, or at least try, anything else plus is very nice to my dog. I may have her do a sporting trim because in UKC that is allowed and I know she can do it well. I am seriously thinking of doing that in the next month.

Bonnie's hair is just starting to change down her back and on her head. I wish it would hurry up, but she is 8 months old, so I probably have a few months of wonkyness to go. 

I will look your shop up. That price is not too much for something that requires heavy scissoring. The price out here is half of that, but like I said, it isn't the same cuts.

The problem with poodles is it is a real skill to trim them in a show cut and there just is not a demand for it in a regular shop. The only people who do it are AKC show people and then they would have their handlers do it. Even show people stop doing it as soon as possible because of the care involved. In UKC it isn't required, so not all of them do the show cuts, but many do.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I looked your shop up, but it is calling it tail waggers not tail washers? Google maps says 38 minutes. Hmmmm.....


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## Randi6567 (May 22, 2011)

Yea Tailwaggers is the store part and tail washers is the grooming they're together right next to eachother if you're ever interested just let me know even if you would like to get the pattern set and see if your regular groomer can match it I love grooming poodles a lot of Groomers don't like it cause it's too time consuming and working for commission they make more doing a bunch of shave downs and easy dogs but I take pride in my work I love a challenge


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

If I wasn't working the day before the show and having my mother drop Bonnie off this next time, I would drive out there! Maybe next month? I could go shopping for a few hours while I'm there. I take her every two weeks and comb her inbetween, so it isn't like she is ever a mess. Plus, she is a small standard (21 inches), so there isn't as much to trim. I just may take you up on it. It would be great to have someone do it just right for a change. I love my groomer, though. 

I bookmarked your shop. I assume you are Randi?


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## Randi6567 (May 22, 2011)

Yep that's me well let me know are you gonna go to the Ontario show in nov? That's gonna be my 1st but I still gotta get stedman ukc registered he's akc but they said I can get a temporary registration if I don't get the papers in time


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I thought that show was in Orange County? They changed the location, I see. There is also one in Claremont at the end of October. I work every other weekend, so can't do them all (there are a lot of them in the Fall!). BUT, I am off that weekend.  

If you fill out the registration and mail it in the next couple days you could easily get it in time. They are slower than AKC, but I still got it within two and a half weeks. If not, you can do the temporary registration, but it is only temporary and nothing will count until you get the full one.

I assume you have the form, but here it is just in case:
United Kennel Club: Single Registration


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