# is there a way to get my spoo AKC registered?



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

A dog sold under limited registration should NEVER be bred. Breeding this dog violated the contract that your breeder signed promising he or she would not breed this animal. A breeder sells a dog with limited registration because the breeder does NOT want that dog bred.

Your puppy's litter cannot be registered with AKC because the sire was on limited registration. This is how the AKC discourages these types of breedings from happening. Unfortunately, it seems your breeder violated the contract, bred the dog even though the puppies could not be registered with AKC and registered with an illegitimate kennel club instead.

How old is the sire? What health testing was completed?

I will try to give your breeder the benefit of the doubt. Maybe your breeder accidentally allowed this dog to sire a litter...


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## sweet viola (Dec 9, 2011)

and that is why I am confused, because the sire's pin number doesn't show up as limited in the AKC db. Wouldn't it show up if he was actually limited?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

What is the sire's AKC reg. name?


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## sweet viola (Dec 9, 2011)

Cosmos Papparazzis Shine


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## sweet viola (Dec 9, 2011)

health testing was done on the dogs-the owner is a vet tech and had it done. I just figured that it had to do with the dogs being therapy dogs-which is why I purchased this pup. My son has autism, and the pups were evaluated as good therapy dog prospects.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

No, unfortunately it has nothing to do with being a therapy dog. It has to do with being an irresponsible breeder. 

Your sweet girl is your baby and you will love her just the same but I do encourage you to learn about the signs of a reputable breeder and hopefully your next (because you'll soon learn you cant have just one poodle!) will come from a more ethical breeder.

Do you have proof of all health testing on both parents? Not all tests can be done by a vet tech. Minimal testing includes:

VWD genetic clearance
NE genetic clearance
Hips
CERF (eyes)
SA skin punch 
Thyroid


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## sweet viola (Dec 9, 2011)

no, I don't. I didn't think to ask for a copy. The dogs were obviously well-cared for in a loving home environment, obviously they were "pets" not just breeding stock, kwim? I honestly had just found this website the night before, knew "something" about testing, asked if the dogs had been health checked for any genetic issues with poodles, and they told me that they had. So I left it at that.

Thanks for your help. I do love my girl, she is fabulous. But yeah, next time I will make sure to cover a lot more bases


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

sweet viola said:


> no, I don't. I didn't think to ask for a copy. The dogs were obviously well-cared for in a loving home environment, obviously they were "pets" not just breeding stock, kwim? I honestly had just found this website the night before, knew "something" about testing, asked if the dogs had been health checked for any genetic issues with poodles, and they told me that they had. So I left it at that.


A reputable breeder will always provide you with a copy of all health testing. You won't have to ask. Had this breeder done all tests and had the dogs passed favorably, you would have been given a copy.


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## sweet viola (Dec 9, 2011)

thanks for your help CM, this forum has been so educational and helpful to me-everyones input and help is definitely making me a better dog owner.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

You can do an AKC ILP registration when she is spayed and participate in everything except conformation. AKC has a new therapy dog title (ThD), that you might be interested in. Except I think you are confusing some words. I think you have her for an emotional support dog, not a therapy dog.


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## sweet viola (Dec 9, 2011)

I wasn't aware that there were different classifications, but yes, that does sound more accurate. One of the others dircted me to the PAL registration-looks interesting


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> A dog sold under limited registration should NEVER be bred. Breeding this dog violated the contract that your breeder signed promising he or she would not breed this animal. A breeder sells a dog with limited registration because the breeder does NOT want that dog bred.
> 
> Your puppy's litter cannot be registered with AKC because the sire was on limited registration. This is how the AKC discourages these types of breedings from happening. Unfortunately, it seems your breeder violated the contract, bred the dog even though the puppies could not be registered with AKC and registered with an illegitimate kennel club instead.
> 
> ...


Uggg!! Makes me think that I should either neuter pet pups that I bred before they go to a new home.. or keep them till they are older, then neuter dogs and have them under limited BEFORE they go home. That way they will be worthless except to a loving family that is merely looking for a companion and not a money maker! How do reputable breeders avoid this situation from happening?


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

sweet viola said:


> I wasn't aware that there were different classifications, but yes, that does sound more accurate. One of the others dircted me to the PAL registration-looks interesting


Our daughter's standard poodle, Meau, came from a backyard breeder who was charging "extra for papers" and I'm pretty sure the papers would have been worthless CKC registrations anyway, so Katy opted NOT to pay extra. She planned to spay Meau as soon as she was old enough anyway, so didn't need papers for anything. 

When we realized we wanted to participate in AKC Rally Obedience with our spoos, we applied for and received an AKC PAL number for Meau. We had to submit the application, the fee, and two clear color photographs - one from the side and one from the front. The PAL number was issued without any problem. Good luck!


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Ladyscarletthawk said:


> Uggg!! Makes me think that I should either neuter pet pups that I bred before they go to a new home.. or keep them till they are older, then neuter dogs and have them under limited BEFORE they go home. That way they will be worthless except to a loving family that is merely looking for a companion and not a money maker! How do reputable breeders avoid this situation from happening?


I think by knowing the buyer, when possible. My pup was going to be sold limited, but the gave me full registration and I signed off on no breeding. They asked me to wait til he was 12 - 18 months to neutered. If he somehow stays under 15 inches, he will be a lovely dog!

I have found vets willing to do pediatric spay/neuter at 8 weeks old. Not a lot will do it, but maybe you are interested?


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

sweet viola said:


> I wasn't aware that there were different classifications, but yes, that does sound more accurate. One of the others dircted me to the PAL registration-looks interesting


PAL is for mixed breed dogs. ILP is for purebred dogs with registration problems.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

tortoise said:


> PAL is for mixed breed dogs. ILP is for purebred dogs with registration problems.


It's the other way around - PAL is Purebred Alternative Listing and ILP is Indefinite Listing Privilege.

That's why we had to send two clear picture of Meau to get her PAL (Purebred Alternative Listing) number so the people/judges at AKC could determine that she was, in fact, a purebred Standard Poodle...

ILP is for the mixed breeds of indefinite background.

ETA: after researching AKC - PAL and ILP might both be for purebreds
http://www.akc.org/reg/ilpex.cfm

I think the mixed breed listing is now called Canine Partners or something like that...
https://www.akc.org/canine_partners/enroll.cfm


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

plumcrazy said:


> It's the other way around - PAL is Purebred Alternative Listing and ILP is Indefinite Listing Privilege.
> 
> That's why we had to send two clear picture of Meau to get her PAL (Purebred Alternative Listing) number so the people/judges at AKC could determine that she was, in fact, a purebred Standard Poodle...
> 
> ...


Now I'm confused. You have to send in photos with ILP too.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

tortoise said:


> Now I'm confused. You have to send in photos with ILP too.


Right. Which is why I edited my post (ETA = Edited to Add) and added that PAL and ILP are for purebreds and the Canine Partners is for mixes...


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

It is possible that the breeder was purely lazy, but I doubt it. We do not know for a fact that the sire was on limited, we are just assuming because there isn't a good reason not to register a litter other than pure laziness. I would call the breeder and ask them if it is possible to register your dog. It sounds like both sire and dam did have AKC numbers after all. She said the sire had an AKC number when she looked him up. 

Why don't you call AKC and see if the sire is on limited or not? If you paid what people often pay for a purebred standard poodle you should get AKC papers:

Contact AKC
AKC Operations Center
8051 Arco Corporate Drive, Suite 100
Raleigh, NC 27617-3390
Telephone: 919.233.9767
Office Hours: 8:15 a.m. - 4:30 p.m. ET
Customer Service Hours:
8:30 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. ET
weekdays (Monday - Friday) except holidays

By the way: My breeder sold my girl to me on a limited registration with the understanding that if all testing was done and cam eout well that she would change the limited to full registration. It was her way of protecting her line. She did like my puppy and was open to possbily breeding her later on if she turned out nicely.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

If I recall correctly (and it's possible that I don't!) the OP said that the sire of her puppy was bought without papers. OP also mentioned at one point that the sire was under ltd. registration.



sweet viola said:


> Hi, I have a 6 month spoo. She is gorgeous and sweet. When I bought her, it was under CKC reg b/c the dad was supposedly limited registration but when I went to the AKC registration, it shows the dad and mom as registered.
> ?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

http://www.phrdatabase.org/cgi_bin/pp_pedigree.pl?id=37981

I also did find your puppy's sire in the AKC database so the dog is registered through AKC and likely Limited just as your breeder told you.

I did notice looking at PHR that your puppy's great grandparent has produced fair and dysplastic hips. It is therefore a little concerning to see that there have been no hip testings since that generation. Who knows what kind of hips your puppy's grandparents and parents had.

I see a lot of other hip issues in the pedigree.

Hopefully your pup won't have any hip issues but I'd definitely avoid overexercising her until full grown (2 years) and don't overfeed or feed an abundance of calcium.


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## sweet viola (Dec 9, 2011)

wow! thanks for that CM-I didn't know someone could even look that up-I definitely would have if I had know about that before purchasing her! We aren't long distance runners or anything. so I think we will be able to avoid the over exercising  But I wlll defintely talk to her vet about the background. What testing, if any, should I be looking for? Or should I just wait and see "if" anything were to develop, and if I were to wait, what would I be looking for?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I'm not an expert but I'd just make sure you're not feeding any type of puppy growth formula kibble. 

I personally wouldnt do any hip testing in your pup. She may have wonderul hips, it's just a shame there is no current testing in the pedigree.


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## sweet viola (Dec 9, 2011)

that is so funny-my husband kept buying NOT puppy formula by accident-she only had "puppy" food for the first 3 months, since then she has been on regular food.

Thanks again CM, I really appreciate it!


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