# Purchasing an adult standard-A few q



## Poodle73 (Feb 7, 2011)

After much thought and discussion with my husband, as well as suggestions from this forum, we have decided an adult dog is more our speed than a puppy.
We haven't the time to dedicate to training a pup but our very confident tgat we can take good care of an adult.
I found an intact 15 month old male on kijiji. Owner is looking to rehome him bc she says she is stretched too thin, has other dogs and is away with work too much. She's asking 850$ for him. In talking to her several times on the phone now, I've learned a lot about the dog and the situation and I feel very good about all of it except one (hopefully minor) sticking point. She saysvtge dog does not have papers but she is sure it is purebred. She breeds poodle mixes herself and says that when she bought this dog, both parents were on site. She alsosaid he does not have any health testing although she said the person she bought him from still gave her a one year health guarentee. Age said most problems manifest by 15 months and that he has fathered a healthy litter of pups and been seen by a vet for regular checkup and that she has zero concern about diseases.
She is willing to drive 2.5 hrs each direction to let us meet the dig and see if it gets along well with our two children. I think that says a lot bc she said no pressure to take him if we aren't very satisfied. 
What is a fair price to pay for this dog? In your opinions, is there any red flag here that should/would stop us from making this 2.5 h drive to meet him? 
Thanks in advance. Sorry for my long-winded post!


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

Really hard on this.. I dont see how she can be sure in 15 months he doesnt have or wont develop any serious problems. I would wonder since she "breeds? mixed breeds she isnt keeping him ? Some people are will to meet you part way so you never see how their dogs are kept.. Quite a few red flags. I bought my first Poodle just 8 months ago from a family that breeds a littler or two a year. He was not "well bred" but has papers. His parents had some testing done but not all. Their home was just a home, not a kennel and the dogs were in the house and in the yard. He was 4 months old and i paid $300. for him. He was a little under socialized but had got past the initial shyness and for now is healthy. I took a bit more risk that it would be if you have all the documented testing. My second puppy I just bought was from a breeder with parents tested, Ch. Parents, well socialized. There is also the question of supporting the people that arent responsible breeders. Lots to think about but just dont feel pressured. You actually might find something better through a Poodle rescue group. Personally I didnt where I live but you might check. I just dont quite trust the placing of a 15 month old probably purebred intact male (since she doesnt need papers to breed mixes... )it makes me think there is something wrong.. has she shared the reason she is not keeping him?


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## McDonna (Feb 25, 2011)

Personally, my red flag is her statement regarding "zero concern about diseases". Our Beaumont is AKC registered but his Addison's Disease did not manifest until he was 4 years old.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Personally I'd pass. $850 for an adult? And she's already bred him at 15 months? Why not just find a rescue?


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## Poodle73 (Feb 7, 2011)

Thanks for your input. I never considered that she might not want us to see her kennel. Hmmmm that's a good point. However, it's still impressive/a good sign that she's willing to drive so far isn't it?
Another good point is why she isn't keeping him if she breeds poodle mixes. They breed several kinds of dogs actually, not just poodle mixes. Now I'm so confused!
If you get a dog with health testing performed, I guess it still isn't a guarentee of no problems down the line then?
I'm really confused!


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Is she selling him as a breeding dog? My daughter and I got one-year-old, free (giveaway) purebred, papered standard poodle a couple of years ago because the owners where in a similar situation (except for this boy was neutered and they weren't breeders they just couldn't take care of him anymore)

Their main concern was to find him a good home - they had advertised him in the beginning for $100 but received no responses, then they "marked him down" to $50, but received no responses... Then we happened to see his ad when he was free and we took him as a foster so we could find him a good home. My daughter ended up giving the family $100 out of her own pocket because she felt so bad for them - they didn't WANT to give him up, but they simply couldn't care for him anymore...

Your situation sounds more like she's selling him to be a breeding dog and as such is asking much more than what I'm used to for a "re-homed" pet... Because I have no aspirations to breed - there's no way I'd pay what she's asking... 

The whole question about health is probably moot... Whether you get this dog or a rescued poodle from a reputable organization, you will probably not know anything about the background health of the dog - it will be a crapshoot either way... You could be lucky and get a healthy dog, or you could end up with devestating illnesses; there's just no way to know (even with a puppy from fully health tested parents, you can run the risk of something popping up - the chances could be less than the unknown... or not...)

Good luck whatever you decide!


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Please do not support a backyard breeder who breeds poodle mixes. Please, please, please! 

One, $850 is WAY too much money for a dog with this background. What exactly are you paying for here? No papers, no health testing.

Two, she is not being honest with you about health issues. Health issues can crop up at anytime in a dog's life. Just because a dog is healthy at 2 years old doesn't mean it will stay healthy. That is a giant red flag! 

You can find a wonderful, socialized, health-tested retired champion from a reputable breeder for probably less than this. I recently helped my mither-in-law's friend find a 15-month-old Boxer from a breeder. He was a breeder return (the previously family was going through a divorce) and the breeder was rehoming him. I think she charged $300 for him, and his parents are fully health tested and he comes from a long line of champions. He is gorgeous! 

Or you could fine a lovely rescue dog from a rescue group for far less than this. You might not know the health background on a rescue dog, but at least you will not be supporting a backyard breeder. 

Finally, kijiji is not really a great place to be looking for a dog. Where do you live? We can direct you to some reputable rescues or breeders who might have older dogs looking for homes.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Poodle73 said:


> However, it's still impressive/a good sign that she's willing to drive so far isn't it?


Not if her reason for doing so is so you won't see the state of her property and other dogs. Perhaps she is a backyard breeder, not great, but she could be a puppymiller, even worse.


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

I am more concerned that she is so sure there will be not health problems  Wouldnt we all like to have that dog! The driving to meet you part way.. well if you could drive 5 hrs round trip tosell a dog that maybe you got for free.. no too bad a wage... I dont want to be discouraging... there are lot of great dogs out there though. Maybe he is one of them.. just ask for sure why she isnt keeping him.. and no way would i pay that much.. ask on the forum.. im sure someone will point you in the direction of a nice rescue!


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## Poodle73 (Feb 7, 2011)

Rescues are v v hard to come by here and the one I did find in the USA wouldn't send it out of state. We're in a small town in Ontario, Canada. 
I offered 600$. Should I offer even less all things considered? That's IF I still decide to buy him. We'd have to have him fixed so I guess I could offer 500$ bc it will cost me to have him neutered.
Please keep the posts coming. I find this v helpful


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

I understand your problem... I had a bit of that myself. I just went though doing the rescue search and without traveling hundreds of miles there was nothing and a lot of the groups only adopted locally. On petfinders I found several male Mini that seemed like they might have been nice dogs but I was wanting a female. the females I found were 9+yrs old or had serious temperament problems to deal with or didnt really look like a poodle  Did she send you pictures ? She sounds like a puppy mill.. if she is breeding other breeds and mixes... You will have to decide for yourself if it is worth it to you. It is hard to tell a dogs personality on a first meeting. I would want him to be very outgoing. No excuses about him not knowing you etc. I dont know if you could tell that fast ( a short meeting) about things like food aggression and that sort of thing. You sure wouldnt want your kids to get bit by walking too close to a food bowl. Wish I could help you find a dog ..


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## penny_ann (May 29, 2010)

Sounds like alot of red flags to me too. Personally, I wouldn't want to pay that much for this dog. This dog is too much of an unknown. Plus, it does sound like she wants to keep you away from her place. Totally understand your problem though. If you are comfortable with the dog, try to offer less.


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

I would treat this as a rescue and get the dog if you're prepared to take chances with the lack of health testing, etc., but don't pay more than $300 or so. Incidentally, buying a dog from a breeder who tests isn't just about health clearances for those particular things. The reality with standards is that we don't have tests for the really nasty stuff, so testing is also a signal that the breeder is doing her best and trying to take health into account. Things like SA, AD, and other autoimmune diseases don't show up until the dog is a little older.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_Lots of red flags here. There are so many things wrong with this whole picture.

I can't help but wonder what temperament this dog has, how he was used, and the fact that they breed several types of dogs including mixes screams BYB or worse. 

There is no way to tell if this dog will have health issues in the future. There is no proof of health testing on his parents, nothing known about his siblings or other dogs in his (line?) There is simply nothing to base "no health issues" on.

It may go against the grain to leave a dog in that situation, but purchasing him at any price is supporting BYB's/millers. 

And, speaking of the price! What makes this dog worth that kind of money? What is his lineage, what has he accomplished, what has he put on the ground and what have those puppies accomplished. There simply isn't anything there to support the asking price. 

You might do better by looking into a poodle rescue as was suggested earlier.

I wish you the best in your search for the right poodle for you and your husband._


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

Way to much $$$ for what you are getting.

We just rehomed a male..already neutered. completely health tested UKC grand CH. His fee was $600. The adoptee came to our home and spent the night so she could bond with him.
I say keep looking ))


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

tintlet said:


> Way to much $$$ for what you are getting.
> 
> We just rehomed a male..already neutered. completely health tested UKC grand CH. His fee was $600. The adoptee came to our home and spent the night so she could bond with him.
> I say keep looking ))


_That's fabulous Tintlet! What a great way to start a new relationship with your dog!
_


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## onlypoodles4me (May 18, 2009)

Wow, way too much money for a dog with no background. I would also be worried that he might have been neglected, or not much socialization. Never mind the back yard breeder aspect.
There are many diseases that dont come up until 3 or even later.
Maybe one of the breeders around the area (or on here) could help you find a nice young adult that needs rehomeing or retired show dog. At least if it's a dog of thier breeding, or someone they know, you have an idea of health. It would still be a dog that needs a forever home.


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

Feralpudel said:


> I would treat this as a rescue and get the dog if you're prepared to take chances with the lack of health testing, etc., but don't pay more than $300 or so. Incidentally, buying a dog from a breeder who tests isn't just about health clearances for those particular things. The reality with standards is that we don't have tests for the really nasty stuff, so testing is also a signal that the breeder is doing her best and trying to take health into account. Things like SA, AD, and other autoimmune diseases don't show up until the dog is a little older.


Agree!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

What everyone above said, *WAY* too much money for what you are getting!

But most importantly, *why* support an unethical breeder?


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

No way would I give a backyard breeder any money. You could probably find a retired adult looking for a home from a reputable breeder for that much. 

Please do not support this lady.


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## kuriooo (Feb 17, 2010)

I've been looking for an adult on and off for the past year or more. $850 is an enormous amount for an untested, unpapered adult, even if you don't have a lot of poodles nearby. 

Although standard poodles aren't really common here, the situation you describe usually comes up with a rehome fee of $300 or less, usually less. 

Perhaps a reputable breeder would be willing to help you find an adult?

Even if she's very very nice and willing to drive, I'd also be concerned about not seeing where the dog lives. Here near Detroit there are animal flippers - they 'adopt' an animal off Craigslist and then re-sell. I see occasional posts about people adopting out their pet only to see it re-appear weeks later. She might be honest, but then again, she is pretty eager to get rid of a dog for what seems like an exorbitant price. 

Good luck with what you decide!


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## 2719 (Feb 8, 2011)

I think I remember see a 15 mos old intact black standard poodle for sale in the kijiji ads. I think this is the breeder that had it for sale?Ontario Dog Breeder | Great Pyrenees Mountain Dog for Sale

When I see these ads I always wonder how these mixed breeders own unneutered dogs. Reputable breeders would not knowingly sell a male pup to a mixed breeder.

I would not buy this dog. Contact the Poodle Club of Canada or reputable breeders to find a healthy adult dog..if you cannot find one by rescue.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

*Move past this dog....*

I know this is really hard to hear. I think that you must have kennel clubs & Poodle clubs in Canada so start there. I hope the Canadian posters here can help you with their knowledge. 1st SEE the place where you are getting your dog if you can.2nd $850 for no papers & they are a willing breeder of mixed breed dogs is a huge BYB for profit or even a Puppy miller, 3rd. IF you are buying from a person the breeds & sells dogs then they should have basic health tests done (controversy on SA) but still testing. You have NO idea what the lineage is so there very well could be problems that don't crop up to 3+ years. 4th 15 months is way to young to breed a dog. She should have had at least Prelims done on her dog before breeding EVEN to a mixed litter. UGHHHHHH!!! this "breeder" is just making me sick. $300 or less because Rescue dogs we have no idea on their testing but we aren't spending huge amounts of money either so we take a risk. If I am spending money on a breeder it will be from fully tested parents & hopefully an adult that needed to be rehomed.


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## Poodle73 (Feb 7, 2011)

Thanks to everyone who posted. At first I was really surprised by how negative a response I received re buying this dog.
I ended up emailing the owner regarding a few of the issues you all raised and I never heard back from her AND her ad mysteriously disappeared from kijiji at the same time. Clearly a suspicious situation which you all were very aware of. I'm learning so much on here.
I think I've found a great dog now though. He's from a hobby breeder, fully health tested parents, only $150 and they seem to be concerned with placing their dog in the right home. We're going to meet him at his home this Sunday.
One thing-he is 65lbs and 26" at whithers. Is that a massive poodle or just average? Just mostly curious.
We are taking the kids. What sort of things should we watch for in the interactions btw dog and kids and what sort of behaviour, qualities etc would be good to see?
Thank you!


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

Wow. So glad you did not pay that kind of money for that dog. I hope this one works out for you. There is a poodle out there that is right for you!


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## Purley (May 21, 2010)

I looked at the woman's web site from that link that someone posted. I am not sure what mix the brown dog on the right is -- but boy is that one UGLY dog!!

The only thing about this is that its sad that someone treats a dog like that. I really hope that if she does want to "get rid" of the dog then someone kind and loving takes him. On the other hand, I can understand why the original poster would not want to take an unproven dog for lots of money.

Too bad for the dog but then I guess if you look on Petfinder - there are thousands of dogs in worse situations! (I try to NOT look at Petfinder for that reason).


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

What to look for in a dog - in your situation I would be primarily looking for temperament and soundness. Does the dog greet you cheerfully? (Preferably without jumping all over you, given the age of your youngest, but that can be solved by training). Does he allow you to take toys etc away from him? Does he accept treats gently? Does he come when called? Is he happy to be approached while eating? Does he pull excessively when walked on a leash? Has he been socialised to home life and the wider world, or kept outdoors in a kennel? If possible, take him out where there are other people and dogs, and see how he reacts. Excitement is manageable - fear or OTT behaviour are more difficult to resolve.

Soundness and health - get a vet check, unless you feel very confident that you can trust the breeder.

And finally, do you all like him? If you all bond easily with him, the inevitable hiccups and problems down the line become so much easier to deal with. If even one member of the family is constantly saying "Well, I really want a different dog", it is much, much harder.


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## lcristi (Feb 27, 2011)

Poodle73 said:


> After much thought and discussion with my husband, as well as suggestions from this forum, we have decided an adult dog is more our speed than a puppy.
> We haven't the time to dedicate to training a pup but our very confident tgat we can take good care of an adult.
> I found an intact 15 month old male on kijiji. Owner is looking to rehome him bc she says she is stretched too thin, has other dogs and is away with work too much. She's asking 850$ for him. In talking to her several times on the phone now, I've learned a lot about the dog and the situation and I feel very good about all of it except one (hopefully minor) sticking point. She saysvtge dog does not have papers but she is sure it is purebred. She breeds poodle mixes herself and says that when she bought this dog, both parents were on site. She alsosaid he does not have any health testing although she said the person she bought him from still gave her a one year health guarentee. Age said most problems manifest by 15 months and that he has fathered a healthy litter of pups and been seen by a vet for regular checkup and that she has zero concern about diseases.
> She is willing to drive 2.5 hrs each direction to let us meet the dig and see if it gets along well with our two children. I think that says a lot bc she said no pressure to take him if we aren't very satisfied.
> ...


I would be suspect on many planes!
Maybe the dog was stolen!!!
If she is a backyard breeder - did he come from a backyard breeder - you don't want to support her!
$850.00 is around what a backyard breeder would try to get.
Tell her you'll take the dog off her hands for free and then have him scanned for a microchip id.


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

Poodle73 said:


> Thanks to everyone who posted. At first I was really surprised by how negative a response I received re buying this dog.
> I ended up emailing the owner regarding a few of the issues you all raised and I never heard back from her AND her ad mysteriously disappeared from kijiji at the same time. Clearly a suspicious situation which you all were very aware of. I'm learning so much on here.
> I think I've found a great dog now though. He's from a hobby breeder, fully health tested parents, only $150 and they seem to be concerned with placing their dog in the right home. We're going to meet him at his home this Sunday.
> One thing-he is 65lbs and 26" at whithers. Is that a massive poodle or just average? Just mostly curious.
> ...


I am so glad you found this breeder and can't wait to find out how the meeting goes. 

As far as the size, he is a big boy, but not huge. My Romeo is quite a big boy at 73 lbs of pure muscle. He is built like a body builder. lol


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Glad you decided to find a different poodle! 

26 inches tall and 65 lbs. is a large standard, yes, but not huge. Once you get above, 26/27 inches, well I consider that to be huge!

My black standard poodle, Henry, is 26/27 inches tell and 60 lbs. He is a big boy but not huge by any means. 

Let us know how the meeting of the poodle goes!!!


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## PoodleLicious (Nov 17, 2010)

I have read all posts and understand you arent getting that particular dog, and have foumd a second possible dog... now,


the rule is always when you are looking for a specific dog, its really hard to find. So be patient.
The minuute you do find one 5 more will pop up on craigslist and you will be saying "what the heck"

Males past 6 months old and especially intact, are easy to find. Typically free. Usually come with socialization issues and bad habits due to hormones. Hard to place. 
Everyone snatches up the girls in the litters and the males usually sit a while and once they sit too long with little socialization they become unsellable.
biggest reason I would never even consider the first dog you mentioned. Sounds like that kind of breeder.

There were about 5 poodles near me needing homes when I was looking for one. (all intact males, all free) but I came across and chose a spayed female moyen sized poodle whom I adopted for free.
just let something "fall into your lap" it will happen


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## Poodle73 (Feb 7, 2011)

Oh my gosh!!! This weekend was utterly depressing. That black standard fir 150$ was an extreme disappointment. I can barely even descibe the disgusting conditions-a completle run down duplex over run wth all sorts of dogs including the black standard in question. The owner was a complete skid and did not care about the dog. No health testing (different story than he told me on phone but when I asked, he couldn't produce any proof of anything). The dog was hyper with a capital H and out of control--knocked me right over. I didn't even let my children out of the vehicle when I saw the place. I feel like reporting them but I don't know to whom.
We also looked at a 8 year old previous show dog. She had a great temperament and was very friendly toward my daughter. She seemed very calm and barked minimally. She was good around the cats on the premises as well. A couple issues-she has spent quite sone time in a kennel but also a lot of time in a home. Seems well socialized but I feel like I don't really know. Breeder was nice and even cried about having to rehome her but is having health problems and can't handle so many dogs. She showed me all papers for the dog. The dog was in need of a bath and sone grooming which the owner admitted. She also did not sit or shake a paw or seem to fetch a ball. I was surprised since she had a level one obedience certficate (which I saw!). She offered to clean her up and groom her fir us. She asked 150$. Does this sound like a bad situation too? I'm second guessing everything!
Last but not least we met another standard. She was two and barked a lot and although her owners claimed she is the biggest sweetest lap dog, she was v skiddish around my kids and even growled once at my daughter. That's a clear indication that we should move on right? This behaviour/temperament probably can't be changed right?
Help?


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

Im sorry it was such a disappointing weekend. The 8 yr old sounds like the best bet if you arent concerned about her age. Sometimes when they havent used their obedience training for a while and are excited they might not behave well. Beginning Obedience might not include shaking hands... or fetch... From what you have said I would consider this dog... not the other two though.. not with children. They might be just fine out of their space... but it is hard to know , I wouldnt take the chance.


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## Poodle73 (Feb 7, 2011)

Thanks for the response. Yeah we are seriously considering the 8 year old. How trainable is a dog of that age or is her behaviour set in stone by now? Alsowhat are the issues with a dog of this age, other than longevity?
Thanks


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

I have done a lot of rescues at that age ( not poodles) and find that most of them do well settling in well and learning the routine of the home. An old dog CAN learn new tricks lOL!

The first dog... you didnt mention how old it was ? Hyper can be dealt with also.. if it was a nice dog and not aggressive. I would rather have one that was too outgoing than nervous or shy. For #150. you wouldnt expect to get a dog with  genetic testing.. I hate that they lied to you though. You would be going through the same thing you would getting a puppy with that one though. Sure would be nice to get him out of that mess


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

Wow. I give you a lot of credit for really getting out there, and doing your homework.

The 8 year old sounds nice; I'm sure she is still trainable. But, what is the average life span of a standard?

Hmmm. Hang in there. I have a mini and a toy; both rescues. Auggie was a pup; 6 months when we got him. Next month he'll be a year. They think Mimi, the toy, was about 1.5 years. She's probably 2 or so.

They are wonderful; very tolerant with my kids, cuddly and fun. You may want to keep looking; the right one is out there.


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## Beach girl (Aug 5, 2010)

The 8 year old sounds nice. You could easily have her for at least 4 years, and with a bit of luck, maybe 6 or a bit more. That's not too bad.

Second what others have said about dogs sometimes sort of forgetting their obedience work if they haven't done it for a while, although you'd think "sit" would be a command used every day. Some dogs don't like to fetch if other people are around; some will naturally have a stronger retrieve drive than others. Do you have to have a dog that will fetch? If she seems like she would be playful in other respects, I don't know that I'd see that as a big problem.

You're certainly getting an education in your search!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Unless you are certain, wait. A dog or puppy is a big upheaval and undertaking - you need to be very sure it is the right one for your famly. I know how once you have made the decision to get a dog you really, really want to get on with it, and every dog you meet deserves a good home, but remember you hope to be together for many years. Skye had several disappointments before finding Auggie - but knew immediately that he was "the one"!


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

agree- as long as the age isn't a turn off for you (8 is considered senior in most circles) might be just a great dog. Plus 8 year old dogs are VERY VERY hard to home. Wehave two 7 year old dogs in rescue right now both of which are in what we call 'forever fosters" because we know chances of them finding a home at that age is SLIM. 

As to socialization- IF she's shown she's probably pretty good- show dogs deal with a lot of dogs around them and is IMO a good indication of temperment. really shy ones tend to not make it in the show ring. 

Perhaps you could see her again and take her for a walk to a busier part of town? See how she does-


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

I love older dogs!!! She sounds like a sweetie!!


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