# Heart murmur and medication



## mollys_mom (Oct 23, 2009)

Hi - my 13 1/2 year old miniature poodle, Molly, has developed a heart murmur. So far, she doesn't seem to be actively in congestive heart failure although she was coughing a lot and also has had a few fainting spells.

Her Veterinarian has prescribed enalapril and she has been on it for about two months. Because of the cough, she is on a second course of treatment with predisone. She also started last week on Vetmedin.

I hate giving her all these drugs because I don't know what side effects they might cause. I've noticed that the past few days, she seems a bit restless. She has always slept all night in her bed and only rarely would wake up in the night to go out. Now she seems to be getting up more frequently. For the past few nights she has gotten out of her bed (which is on our king size bed) and just lays on the floor.

I guess what I am wondering is what experience any of you might have had with giving these meds to your poodle. Also, do any of you have experience with using a Holistic Vet? Are there any holistic treatments for this type of condition?

I appreciate any help and suggestions you might have. Thanks.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

mollys_mom said:


> Hi - my 13 1/2 year old miniature poodle, Molly, has developed a heart murmur. So far, she doesn't seem to be actively in congestive heart failure although she was coughing a lot and also has had a few fainting spells.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, my thirteen year old poodle Tangee is on 4 different medications for her heart/lungs, but these are prescribed by her cardiologist, that she sees every three - four months for an ultrasound, not just based upon her heart murmur. The cardiologist told me that her heart murmur actually sounds much worse than it is, because it happens to be located right where they listen for it. But Tangee's bigger concern is severe pulmonary hypertension, which they also see on the ultrasound. But with the appropriate combination of drugs, she has been stable and virtually asymptomatic for around two years now. No side effects at all. But she is not taking prednisone, and that has never been suggested as a treatment for her heart/lung disease or cough. And prednisone is a drug which can cause numerous serious side effects, including the restlessness that you describe, so if I were you, I would really want to discuss the necessity of it with your Vet. 
And, if you can possibly afford it, I would strongly advise you to take Molly to a Cardiologist for an ultrasound - the same volume of murmur can mean very different things, and without actually seeing what is going on in her heart and lungs, your regular Vet is just taking a shot in the dark as to the appropriate types and dose of medications....


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

My Chihuahua, Chulita had a heart murmur which progressed to stage 4 and congestive heart failure, which eventually killed her. She was coughing like your dog is and fainting. I gave her any and all drugs prescribed by my very competent vet. Side effects didn't matter at that point. Being comfortable and being able to breathe did. And she was fairly comfortable for about a year when it finally got the better of her. There are certain conditions that will usually kill them in the end and whatever the drugs have as side effects take a back seat from my point of view. Prednisone is a double edged sword. It takes down the inflammation, makes them feel better but yes, it's hard on the liver. But by the time that causes any trouble, it is likely that the CHF will be causing more trouble. But you can talk it over with your vet. It is a terrible disease...this CHF and I am so very sorry you're facing it. Make your dog comfortable as possible for as long as possible. (((hugs)))


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## Rusty (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm sorry to hear about Molly's CHF; it's a difficult thing when our dogs get older. It sounds like she's lucky to have you and a vet that are doing everything you can to keep her happy and comfortable.

My Rusty was on enalapril for the last 1.5 - 2 years of his life, during which he was suffering from congestive heart failure. He went from having rapid, shallow breathing, low energy, and frequent coughing before the medication to being more active, MUCH less coughing, and easier breathing after he went on enalapril. It was one of the best decisions we ever made for him, and I only regret that we didn't recognise the CHF symptoms for what they were earlier, so he could have been on the medication sooner. It made a huge difference in his quality of life. I remember being so happy that after over a year of not even being able to go for very long walks, he wanted to play fetch with his toy in the hallway again (even if it was just one or two fetches). He did experience some upset stomach/loss of appetite when we first put him on the enalapril, which required us to initially cut back on the dose and gradually increase it to the required dose again over a period of one or two weeks. This gradual increase meant that he felt okay and regained his appetite, and was able to tolerate the medication after that with no apparent side effects.

Rusty started the enalapril at about 15.5 or 16 years old (can't remember exactly), but probably should have been on it several months earlier in retrospect. The enalapril managed his symptoms very well for almost a year, after which the heart cough became more frequent again as the CHF worsened. At that point we also put him on Vetmedin, which, while more expensive (as you're probably finding out), again managed the symptoms well and, I believe, kept him very comfortable in terms of his breathing and the heart cough. There were no real side effects with this medication, either. The combination of the two medications worked well for Rusty, and he lived until 17.5 years old. 

After I reconciled myself to the CHF condition and the knowledge that Rusty wouldn't live forever, I found that, in a way, I was very grateful to be in a position where I could appreciate even more than usual the time I had left with Rusty, and know that I was doing everything I could to maintain his quality of life.

In the meantime, if you have access to a good library, I'd encourage you to do some research in veterinary scholarly journals. You'll be able to read scientific studies about side effects and outcomes of both of these medications, which I think will help reassure you and make you feel more confident in your decision. I did that research when we put Rusty on those medications, and I appreciated having a better understanding of how they work and what to expect.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Chulita was on enalapril too and a diuretic.

Here's some additional info: 
Enalapril for Dogs


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

My Annabelle (RIP) was on enilapril for the last 3 years of her life. She progressed from a 2-3 stage to a 4-5 stage within about 6 months when it was first detected. Initially, I only gave her one dose a day, then it was upped to 2. She had some coughing, but not a lot. 

I'd say the restlessness is caused by the prednisone... it makes me go nuts when I take it. I literally don't sleep the entire time I have to take it. I just lay there and listen to my heart pound. Hopefully, it's just a short course for your girl.


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## Rejuvenatebio (Jul 14, 2017)

*A new therapy for Heart Failure*

I am a student working on a new therapy which has shown the ability to stop the progression heart failure (enlarged heart known as Dilated Cardiomyopathy as well as Mitral Valve Disease). I know how hard it can be to loose a loved pet and that is why we have been working on this project. I am hoping the members here would be willing to give me 2 minutes of their time and share a little about their experience here in the link below (totally anonymous). I promise it shouldn't take more than 2-3 minutes!

This information will help me know how owners in the community value a medication which could stop heart failure. If there is enough interest I hope to make this therapy available to pets as well.

Owner Input for Heart Failure Medication

Your input will make a difference!


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