# Has anyone tried to make...



## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

We have a stickey called Links for Feeding a Homemade Diet. Tried to copy it and failed. Lots of useful recipes. One of our members makes a big batch of her own recipe and then freezes in daily portions for her small dogs. If you are organized and have the time, it's much better for your dogs. My late Scottie with terrible allergies did well with lamb protein.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

The basic principles I work to are:
80% muscle meat (heart is a muscle)
10% bone
10% offal, of which around 4% should be liver (ideally beef liver), the rest tripe, kidney, spleen, etc, etc

Add some cooked or pureed vegetables/fruit - green, orange, peas, beans - NOT onions or potatoes.
Feed oily fish once or twice a week.
Feed eggs once or twice a week (or an egg a day for large dogs).

I have to say it is a great deal easier being able to source minced meat that already contains the right proportion of offal and bone.


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## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

Fjm's above post is right on....those are the portions I go by.
I am lucky that I have a ground meat/organs/bone source for a good price, so I buy that and then just add processed veggies and/or fruit to it to make it complete. There is no need to add extra vitamins.
A couple of times a week I add raw egg and also ground tripe. About 3 days a week I replace the ground mixture meal with meaty bones suchas chicken Carcass or pork necks.
My dogs LOVE their raw meals!


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## Kota&Tana'smom (Aug 27, 2015)

What is a ground meat/organ/bone source? I don't know why, but I'm more confused now than ever.


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## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

Ha, I made it sound more complicated than it is. It's, for example, ground turkey meat which includes organs and bones. (10% organs, 10% bones, the rest muscle meat).
I also feed a ground beef mixture which is just beef and organs. I don't worry about there being no bone in it because they get bones in other meals.


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## Kota&Tana'smom (Aug 27, 2015)

Can someone tell me if this is correct so far?
Tana 10lbs 3% = .3lbs daily
Koda 10lbs 2.5% = .25lbs daily
Parkre 70lbs 2.5% = 1.75lbs daily
.3 X 6 (days a week) = 1.8lbs
.25 X 6 = 1.5lbs
1.75 X 6 = 10.5lbs
1.8 + 1.5 + 10.5 = 13.8 X 4 = 55.2
TOTALING:
55lbs of meat a month.
If that is correct, what do I do next? How do I figure out the 80/10/10 formula?


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## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

All I can tell you is that my dogs get approx 2% of their body weight per day. 
I then just watch their weight and add more or subtract more depending how they look. More active dogs may need more, couch potatoes may need less.

Jasper is 75 lbs and gets 1 1/2 lbs
Millie is 50 lbs and gets 1 lb
Cosmo is 15 lbs and gets between 1/4-1/2 lb 


Don't worry too much about the 10/10/80....it's not an exact science. It doesn't need to be balanced every day. It's just an approximation and you just shouldn't feed too many organ meats all the time as they are very rich, or meaty bones every day as they can be constipation get. Balance them out somewhat. It also depends on whether you want to shop around yourself or buy commercially prepared raw.


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## Kota&Tana'smom (Aug 27, 2015)

That's my plan...I want to make the girls food. They really seem to like the lamb dinner from S&C, but I would prefer to know exactly what is in every bite they take. I would like to make enough food for a months time so I have to figure out exactly what to do. I think I can start with 50lbs of meat, but I have no idea how to figure out the 10% bone and 10% offal. I plan on giving them fish one to two days a week. I also have turkey necks and will be making home made jerky for them as treats. I will be adding some veggies/fruit to their mix, also. 
-How do I figure out the amount of bone and offal I add to 50 lbs of meat?
-what is a good meat grinder that can handle bones (or is there one?)
-Do I add tripe or raw egg to the daily meal or into the mix that I am going to freeze?


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## elem8886 (Sep 19, 2012)

If the total you need is 55lbs then you need to make 80% of 55lbs muscle meat, 10% of 55lbs bone, and 10% of 55lbs offal. So - 44lbs of muscle meat, 5.5 lbs bone, and 5.5lbs offal (and following fjm's comment above you want 2.2lbs to be liver and then 3.3lbs to be other organs). 

44 + 5.5 + 5.5 = 55lbs

You're not going to be getting those exact numbers of course but you want to aim for balance over time. Think about what you're feeding - ground beef for example is just meat, no bone and on the other side chicken necks or turkey necks have more bone than muscle. If you are feeding them jerky remember that it is a concentrated muscle meat. I wouldn't add the egg or tripe before you freeze it, just give it to them with their meal.

Have you looked at the thread for homemade raw food? It is at the top of the food section here on the forum and has some helpful links.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Here is a possible break down, using lamb, as you say your dogs like it, and beef. You could replace the lamb and beef with any other boneless meat, ground or in chunks. If you use chicken wings and/or backs as your bone source, they are usually estimated at around 45% bone - a little less than half their total weight. They are also quite fatty - as is lamb - so I would use a low fat ground beef to balance things out a bit. Based on your total of 50 pounds, you would need around:
12lb chicken wings/backs (gives about 5 - 6 lbs of bone)
16lb lamb
16lb beef
2lb liver (ideally beef, pig or lamb if you can't get beef)
3lb other offal (internal organs other than heart - kidney, pancreas, whatever you can find)

5 - 10lb mixed vegetables - carrots, green beans, peas, green leafy veg (not too much of this - a little goes a long way), pumpkin, zucchini, etc, etc. No onions or potatoes. The vegetables will need to be cooked or pureed to make them digestible - if cooking, freeze the water along with them to retain as many of the vitamins as possible.

I would feed the chicken pieces whole for one meal, then one or two of meals of meat and vegetables mixed.

Replace one or two meals a week with sardines canned in water.
Add an egg a week for small dogs, two or three for bigger dogs.

Green tripe (unprocessed tripe, not the white stuff sold for human consumption) is excellent if you can get it - add to the meat mix or feed it by itself. Be warned - it STINKS!

50 pounds of meat is A LOT to manage in one go - I would divide these by 4 and do a week's meals at a time till you see how it goes.


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## Summerhouse (Jun 12, 2015)

Kota&Tana'smom said:


> What is a ground meat/organ/bone source? I don't know why, but I'm more confused now than ever.


In UK you can buy frozen minces that come complete with the bone ground in along with organ meat so you just add other bits that you want. I have heard of suppliers who just put whole chickens into grinders, feathers and all.

Don't get too hung up on the proportions for each meal. You have to think about the balance of foods over a week or 2. It doesn't matter if they don't get organ meat for 2 days just so long as they have a bit more another day. Feral dogs do fine eating what they can. Think of it a bit like us we'll have cake one day and try to make up for it the next day by having salad lol

Feeding a whole fish is considered a complete meal as it has the meat, bone, and organ meat all in one package. I'd suggest waiting to feed those when they're due a bath and when it can be fed outside. It always ends up with a fishy smelling dog here


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## Kota&Tana'smom (Aug 27, 2015)

*Help!!!!*

I told you I was confused. I called around about meat grinders and was asking which ones grind up 'BONE'. People think I'm crazy. The 10% bone that is in the RAW feeding...is that from the meat bones they get thruout the week (turkey necks, duck necks, etc...)?
If so, the only thing I am grinding up is the muscle meat, offal, and veg/fruit, right?
Please stick with me...*I am going to get this one way or another for the health of my girls.*


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

The bone can either be ground or whole - the suggestions I made above were based on feeding whole chicken wings to give enough bone to balance out feeding bone-free muscle meat and offal. If you feed necks they are higher in bone than wings (70 - 75%, rather than 45%), so you would need rather less of those, and rather more muscle meat. You don't really need to grind anything - you could feed the meat in chunks and chop and cook the vegetables - but it does make it easier to process. My toy dogs are fed twice a day - they often get half a chicken wing each for one meal, and a ground meat and vegetable meal for the other.


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## Kota&Tana'smom (Aug 27, 2015)

Thanks fjm for being there for me today. I went yesterday and bought 3-4lb bags of S&C (2 lamb, 1 beef) for the girls. Packaged it all out per day and I got 8 days out of it. That's for my 2-10lb & 1-70lb dogs. It cost me over $87.00. That's about $325 a month without the chew bones, jerky, our snacks. I'm thinking I can make it a bit cheaper and I'll know exactly what's in it. The only problem I had with a your formula was I can't give my girls any chicken. The vet wants them off all chicken and grain because of ear problems and skin allergies. And when I gave them the S&C beef yesterday they were not impressed. I guess I will have to introduce the beef a little slower. So, if they can't have any chicken, do you think I should do turkey wings instead, or should I stay away from all fowl because of the allergy? {They have not been allergy tested. This is something the vet is trying because he has seen a lot of dogs in our area that are allergic to chicken and grain that presented with the same symptoms.}


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## Summerhouse (Jun 12, 2015)

Probably the only part of a turkey wing that would be suitable for your toys would be the tips. The wings are huge. You could try some small lamb rib bones instead if you can get them, or sections of small duck wings.

Its more likely that its the grain rather than the chicken. Lets hope it turns out that way.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I found duck wings too big for my toys, and small lamb and pork bones tend to be very high in fat. If you are avoiding chicken I would go with egg shell as a calcium source instead of bone while you work out if the problem is an allergy. Wash and dry the eggshells, grind them in a pestle and mortar or clean coffee grinder, and use half a teaspoonful to each pound of meat. 

I have to say that seems very expensive - I buy the meat/offal/bone mix for about 70p/$1.10 a pound. It would certainly be worth asking around to see if there is a local group doing suitable bulk buys that you could join.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

It's expensive starting with the S&C base. It's worth it to see if you can find a butcher who could grind the base for you, or even price plain ground lamb and beef and mix in the rest. Great idea about the egg shells fjm! If I had a dog with allergies or more than one dog, I would make the effort.


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## Kota&Tana'smom (Aug 27, 2015)

fjm said:


> If you are avoiding chicken I would go with egg shell as a calcium source instead of bone while you work out if the problem is an allergy. Wash and dry the eggshells, grind them in a pestle and mortar or clean coffee grinder, and use half a teaspoonful to each pound of meat.


Egg shells sound like a great idea. Can I use shells from hard boiled eggs? (My luck, that would probably be too easy since I feed my Timneh a hard boiled egg every night for dinner and all those egg shells just go in the trash.)


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Any eggshells, washed and dried - hard boiled would be sterilised by the boiling water, so even better!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Kota&Tana'smom said:


> Thanks fjm for being there for me today. I went yesterday and bought 3-4lb bags of S&C (2 lamb, 1 beef) for the girls. Packaged it all out per day and I got 8 days out of it. That's for my 2-10lb & 1-70lb dogs. It cost me over $87.00. That's about $325 a month without the chew bones, jerky, our snacks. I'm thinking I can make it a bit cheaper and I'll know exactly what's in it. The only problem I had with a your formula was I can't give my girls any chicken. The vet wants them off all chicken and grain because of ear problems and skin allergies. And when I gave them the S&C beef yesterday they were not impressed. I guess I will have to introduce the beef a little slower. So, if they can't have any chicken, do you think I should do turkey wings instead, or should I stay away from all fowl because of the allergy? {They have not been allergy tested. This is something the vet is trying because he has seen a lot of dogs in our area that are allergic to chicken and grain that presented with the same symptoms.}


I know you want to do it yourself, but just in case you didn't know, you can find this stuff already prepared for you and ready to eat. I started my two dogs on raw a few days ago. I found a distributor near my house. They have a recipe made with dieticians and vets, that contains everything all mixed up and frozen. They have horse, beef and a few other meats. It will cost me about 20$ per month for my two dogs, maybe a little more because Merlin is so nervous he needs to eat more than 2% of his body weight, he's waaayyy too skinny ! Merlin is 5 pounds, should be 6-7 and Tamara is 4,4 pounds.

I'm sure there is something like that near you.


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## Kota&Tana'smom (Aug 27, 2015)

Another question (surprise, surprise, huh?) I went out yesterday looking for canned sardines in water. All I could find were ones from Thailand or Vietnam. Not a fan of things from those places. :usa2: Can you tell me what kind ya'll buy and where they are from? I did see on the internet there's a brand called King Oscar that is from Norway and packaged in Poland. When it comes to anything out of the water, I am totally lost. I am allergic :bulgy-eyes: to it all so I know nothing about any type of fish whether they swim, crawl, float, or flutter. Thanks for all your help. It is truly appreciated.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I'm in the UK, so I doubt the brands would be the same. Any oily fish will do - mackerel, salmon, sild - but not tuna. Something in the way tuna is processed destroys the oils, it seems. I have used sardines in tomato when I couldn't find them in spring water - the dogs seem to like them. If all else fails you can add a little fish oil to their food (not cod liver oil, as that is usually fortified with vitamin D, but salmon or similar oil). I prefer whole foods to supplements as far as possible, though - much less scope for overdoing it, when too much can be as bad, or worse, than too little.


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## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

Don't over think it or make it too complicated....... Just start out simple and feed one protein source in the beginning. It's not an exact science and doesn't have to be balanced out each day. As Summerhouse said....it is should be balanced over a week or two.

When I first started feeding raw I fed chicken only. Then once I was comfortable with that I added another.....ie/ pork necks instead of chicken backs.
I don't grind my own, you pretty much need a commercial grinder for that and they are pricey. I find most butcher shops ( in my area anyway) carry some sort of ground up pet grade meat. I go with that, add some processed veggies, make sure you swap the ground for meaty bones about 3 days a week, toss and egg on once or twice a week and your set.
Personally I wouldn't worry about introducing fish for a while, you could do that later.
Keep it simple at first and see how your dog does on that. Then if any allergies show up you can pin point the culprit easier.


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