# Raw bones vs Teeth



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

So I know that folks say that raw bones are great for cleaning teeth, so yesterday I gave Timi a raw drumstick with most of the skin and meet pulled off, and I did not like what I heard - bone cracking against bone! 
It reminded me that when my older girls had dentals and it was discovered that they were living with numerous fractured teeth that had to be removed, I thought back to all of the crunchy hard treats that they had eaten when they are young, and thought never again am giving my dogs hard crunchy things to eat.
So can anybody convince me that smashing raw bones with her teeth is good for her (or better than brushing her teeth)? The reason I gave it to her is that despite the daily brushing, I am seeing a slight bit of tarter forming in the center groove of her back molars, but if raw bones mean risking fracturing the tooth instead, well what good is that, I might as well resign myself to the fact that the girl is going to need periodic dentals....


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I give chicken wings - same advantages, but softer and less risky.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Some bones are better than others. some parts of bones (uncooked) are friable and almost turn to powder when chewed. Some (like the long bones in birds) can splinter and cause intestinal bleeding and in the worst case peritonitis. Any bones fed should be uncooked. Some dogs are assiduous in chewing and crunching bones and will benefit from them. Some will swallow large pieces of bone that can cause problems. A dogs digestive juices will dissolve bones quite quickly. All the above being said: Over a lot of dogs I have had in my care during 60 years, I eventually decided on a "no bones" policy. Though most all of them had no problems, the few that did were costly at the vet and a source of worry for myself.

I recommend raw-hide compressed bones for teeth cleaning. I give 10in long ones to Grace. It takes her up to 3 days to demolish one. When she was a puppy she had Pigs ears but before very long they lasted her about 2 min, Chomp! Chomp!. For your toys, dried animal ears would be fine. Also the twisted, knotted raw-hide chews. Raw-hide prepared correctly is good for dogs and keeps their teeth very clean. No amount of brushing does this so well. Stay away from Chinese/Asian products that are not prepared with care and can contain dangerous pathogens. A dogs teeth benefit from chewing. Like humans, the root attachment to the jaw is strengthened by chewing. Blood and lymphatic fluids are circulated through the teeth in the process of chewing and stimulate growth and health of the teeth. Dogs fed a soft diet, lose their teeth early and have all manner of problems with them. A healthy dogs teeth are very strong and rarely break when chewing. The noise is a little disconcerting but normal.
Eric


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

i stopped giving raw bones when i read one vet's experience - operating on dogs and finding bone chips in their stomachs. my male dog also got diarrhea without fail from rawhide. so no rawhide anything. that being said, for a long time i had access to slowly baked and sliced thin sheep vertebrae that were imported from new zealand. sheep tendon also baked to toughness was another favorite. my dogs loved those and their teeth were very clean. btw, i also "taught" my dog to obey the command "chew it." of course i first found something to give him that he had to chew then named what he was doing. later he was given those tough treats and told to chew. it seemed to work. he would gobble things otherwise.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I give Molly drumsticks all the time and yes, the crunching sound can be disconcerting but I know the bones aren't harming her as she's a 'good chewer' and chews her food well. Since I have used kitchen scissors to cut a drumstick bone I think Molly teeth can handle them!
Maybe giving Timi wings instead because she's smaller and the bones are softer and smaller too is the way to go for her! I know at 3 yrs old Molly teeth are still great and if I don't give her the raw chicken for a week, her teeth will start to get stains, but will disappear once I start giving her her chicken again.....and this is in addition to brushing!
Sometimes I wonder if there is a enzyme in raw chicken that cleans teeth ! It works for us!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

The meat and skin is left on the wings - aren't they pretty fatty? She is a good chewer, I am not worried about her swallowing big chunks, but I am really scared of her fracturing teeth!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Molly hasn't had any tummy issues with leaving the skin on at all. I would imagine it's like everything else, in that it is such a small amount because of the size of the wing, that for a digestively healthy dog it is not a problem. Actually wings are not really fatty they are mostly skin, meat and muscle..............legs have a lot more fat under the skin though, so some people remove the skin and only feed the meat and bone. Molly eats it all!LOL
Oh yeah, since Molly 's diet is pretty rotational she gets the raw chicken just 3 times a week.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Mine get half a small chicken wing each for one of their two daily meals - I rotate, too, so they get them three or four times a week. They also get chunks of raw green tripe, which can take a lot of chewing...! As Timi is so timy you might want to give her just the middle joint of the wing, without the tip.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

fjm said:


> Mine get half a small chicken wing each for one of their two daily meals - I rotate, too, so they get them three or four times a week. They also get chunks of raw green tripe, which can take a lot of chewing...! As Timi is so timy you might want to give her just the middle joint of the wing, without the tip.



You give them straight a raw not cooked wing or drumstick? No salmonella issue without cooking? Just straight from package? I have never heard of that. 
No chocking issue? at what point do you take it away?


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## poolann (Jan 31, 2013)

mom2Zoe said:


> You give them straight a raw not cooked wing or drumstick? No salmonella issue without cooking? Just straight from package? I have never heard of that.
> No chocking issue? at what point do you take it away?


Most of the time it's not dogs that have issues with salmonella. It's the people who handle their food. If you follow handling procedures like you would if getting meat ready for people then you're fine. Dog's digestive tracts move faster than a person's & their stomach acid is quite different. Hence eating raw or dead animals doesn't have ill effects unless the animal had disease that can be transmitted to them. I've switched one of my shepherds over to raw food. I just wash my hands thoroughly & clean his bowl well when he's finished. I would think in your household with little ones around eating raw chicken in a crate would be best so germs aren't spread. All of my guys get bones/ fed in their crates to avoid conflicts.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

You don't take it away, they consume the whole thing. It is very common now for people to feed their dogs this way. I used to give my Jack Russell raw chicken wings. I don't for Misha because of her MVD, I was told NO raw. Emilio doesn't get anything other than kibble because of pancreatitis.


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## Newmum (Jan 2, 2014)

Cooked bones are dangerous as they are more brittle and can splinter, causing problems anywhere along digestion or elimination. You don't have to take away the raw bone, they can eat it all


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Finding this fascinating... I have one right now as I am cooking for the sabbath.
so I cleaned the wings for us.. so I actually take a raw wing and hand it to her?
I should then cut down her dinner, right?


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Usually you have them eat it on a towel or in a crate or even outside because you don't want to chance contamination. Just clean up after where she eats with antibacterial wipes.  And yes, cut back her dinner.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

I am too much of a nervous nelly when it comes to Zoe, never was with my children.
I called the vet about giving to her the raw bones. She said, there could be a contamination of salmonella . She said often the people will get it not the dogs.
I am not willing to take that risk, so I will stick with teeth brushing.


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## Luce (Mar 4, 2013)

TP - have you tried antlers!! Luce LOVES them!! They are totally consumable, it takes a lot of chewing, gnawing and saliva on it to soften it up a bit. The middle is like marrow and the outside is like soft bone - not really sure what it is but she loves them!! Luce is a delicate chewer, a little lady LOL. She works on it. I also give her raw marrow bones - they may be a bit large for Timi. Luce does not chew them up!! I keep them frozen, she eats the marrow and the bone is left as another chew toy. They are much to thick for her to break but she really enjoys gnawing on them. I get a lot of compliments on her teeth - she turned 2 4 weeks ago and there is no sign of tarter build up.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

I love the sound of them crunching on chicken wings. I imagine the teeth are getting clean as they crunch. I have a Yorkie too and I worry about pancreatitis so I take most of the skin and fat off. That process is annoying and tedious. I think that the raw chicken meat on the bone has some teeth cleaning action so maybe leave some of the meat on the bones for Timi. I never gave a drumstick, only wings because the leg bones are weight bearing bones which makes them harder/stronger bones.

When Piper was about 4 months old I started feeding her wings. She inhales her food so I taught her how to eat it by holding it for her. Now she is a pro and she chews those wings thoroughly. For my Yorkie, I cut them at the joint and give him the meaty portion. 

pr


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Maybe I will try the wings - I had the distinct feeling that the drumstick might be stronger than her teeth! She does chew bullies and knee caps, I just don't think that dry chews do much of anything to clean the teeth. Have not tried antlers yet, but I would imagine that they are the same.


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## Tabatha (Apr 21, 2015)

If you're afraid of bones splintering, knee caps are fantastic with the same benefits. Also chicken or duck feet, especially for older pets, it's a natural source of glucosamine. Necks of all kinds -- chicken, pork, lamb, etc...

If you are feeding bones, don't forget to feed offal, it helps digestion and absorption.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Thanks to Buck and his raw chicken necks, I have a brand new freezer. He has been eating them whole since he was a puppy. He chews them carefully and I've never had a problem. The sound of bone crunching doesn't last very long. My trainer is so impressed by his teeth, she bought her own dog some. The bones that worry me are these huge raw dinosaur looking bones my husband brought home. They're stashed in the freezer, maybe forever, now that I have room.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Think that for now I am just going to stay with the safest bet, diligent tooth brushing!


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## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

I've been feeding raw for years.... Raw meaty bones (ie/chicken carcass) are so good for your dogs, both the digestive system and the teeth. I have never brushed my dogs' teeth, my vet said she's never seen whiter cleaner teeth on a dog.
My largest dog Jasper (75 lbs) gets a whole carcass about 3 times a week, my smallest...Cosmo (15 lbs), gets a portion of the back or a neck. 
They LOVE getting fed raw!


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## Scully (Sep 30, 2014)

mom2Zoe said:


> I am too much of a nervous nelly when it comes to Zoe, never was with my children.
> I called the vet about giving to her the raw bones. She said, there could be a contamination of salmonella . She said often the people will get it not the dogs.
> I am not willing to take that risk, so I will stick with teeth brushing.


Vets dont tend to like raw feeding, and will try to put you off. Human garde food should not contain slamonella, and as someone mentioned it normally is passed from us. You can freeze the meat beforehand if you are worried.

Do not cut the wings down tho, if you are worried hold them for her to chew as this means you can keep and eye on her and be sure she has chewed.




Luce said:


> TP - have you tried antlers!! Luce LOVES them!! They are totally consumable, it takes a lot of chewing, gnawing and saliva on it to soften it up a bit. The middle is like marrow and the outside is like soft bone - not really sure what it is but she loves them!! Luce is a delicate chewer, a little lady LOL. She works on it. I also give her raw marrow bones - they may be a bit large for Timi. Luce does not chew them up!! I keep them frozen, she eats the marrow and the bone is left as another chew toy. They are much to thick for her to break but she really enjoys gnawing on them. I get a lot of compliments on her teeth - she turned 2 4 weeks ago and there is no sign of tarter build up.


If shes worried about bones cracking teeth antlers are even harder, and i personally have seen more dogs crack their teeth on them.


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## Scully (Sep 30, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Think that for now I am just going to stay with the safest bet, diligent tooth brushing!


Carrots are a good safe bet and we find they keep teethe nice and clean. Plus straight out the fridge they are great on hot days.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I am really worried about cracked teeth - Teaka always has had amazingly clean teeth and healthy gum, but when she began to have pain, and had a dental, they discovered numerous fractured teeth, one even fractured below the gum line which would not have been seen without x-ray. Although she did not eat raw, she did have plenty of hard crunchy treats when she was young, so this has made me very cautious about giving Timi anything hard - you know how dogs just chomp things with total abandon...


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

If your dog didn't chew raw bones when it was young it's teeth may have softened. In nature a canine would have chewed up prey whole from youth and would have very strong teeth.

My Spoo almost died on kibble, lost 1/3 of his body weight, wouldn't drink, everything came out runny one end or the other and he had to be given iv fluids. Over $ 2K in vet bills later, and every vet food prescribed, I thought I was going to lose him. The vets said raw was dangerous and he would either get salmonella or die from the raw bones. 

I called his breeder. It turned out his lineage had eaten raw 3 generations back. I told the vet I didn't care what they thought, and I started with a chicken thigh, bone in, skin on. Within 3 days he was eating and drinking again, and no more runny whatever. 

He now eats a varied type of raw meat diet, pork ribs bone in yesterday, organic beef heart today, organic beef liver tomorrow am, a chicken leg quarter bone in the next meal, then venison, etc, etc. 

The vet is now fully supportive of his being on raw. He is amazingly healthy, white teeth, the thickest hair my groomer has ever dealt with, etc. At 6 yrs of age runs faster than any dog at the dog park. No cracked teeth.

I feed him his raw on a towel, or outside on the grass. I wash My hands immediately and the floor after he eats , and wash off his mouth with a damp cloth when he is done. It's interesting, he now waits for me to wash off his mouth before he goes to drink from his bowl


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

kontiki said:


> If your dog didn't chew raw bones when it was young it's teeth may have softened. In nature a canine would have chewed up prey whole from youth and would have very strong teeth.
> 
> My Spoo almost died on kibble, lost 1/3 of his body weight, wouldn't drink, everything came out runny one end or the other and he had to be given iv fluids. Over $ 2K in vet bills later, and every vet food prescribed, I thought I was going to lose him. The vets said raw was dangerous and he would either get salmonella or die from the raw bones.
> 
> ...



That is an interesting theory about the teeth. But whenever somebody says "in nature", I always think "there are no wild poodles in nature, and wild dogs probably don't live as long as domestic dogs, so how do we really know what the long term effects are? 
Anyhow, my girls rarely eat kibble - the two main foods are Stella and Chewy's freeze dried raw, and Ziwi Peak air dried.
Do you feed only meat - no fruits or vegetables, or even tripe?


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## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

There are a lot of different opinions on whether or not to feed veggies in a raw diet.
I personally think that they want them and need them, so I do. I see my dogs pick apples from the trees, raid my raspberry patch, pick blackberries when they're ripe, graze on grass like they're little ponies, did carrots up from the garden.....this all says that fruits and veg are a natural part of their diet.
Tripe is very stinky but BOY do they love it! And, it's incredibly good for them.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Tabatha said:


> If you're afraid of bones splintering, knee caps are fantastic with the same benefits. Also chicken or duck feet, especially for older pets, it's a natural source of glucosamine. Necks of all kinds -- chicken, pork, lamb, etc...
> 
> If you are feeding bones, don't forget to feed offal, it helps digestion and absorption.


Where do you get these things Tabatha? They won't splinter? Do they give the dogs diarrhea until they're use to them? I really hate it when they get diarrhea.:afraid: That's good to know about the offal. What is it and where do you buy that?


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I've been reading about raw feeding for years and only gave it a little try once with my Chihuahuas back in Idaho. (but she almost choked to death) I might have had my Dobe and Lab then too...can't remember if it was all the dogs or just the two little ones. 

Anyhow, I've always heard about the benefits...the health, teeth, the works. When I said something to one vet back then about how they should be fine because that's what they did in the "wild," he said, "but domestic dogs have changed a lot from their ancestors"....which is true. Their jaws and teeth, skulls are smaller. I don't know...I've read even that their digestive system has adapted to grain much more so than their ancestors or other wild canids.

But I have read on these forums lots of success stories. One gal who bred Rottweilers had been feeding raw for over a decade. Her dogs were beautiful champions, therapy dogs, worked with children...lovely. She was a great trainer. Anyhow, she never had to get their teeth cleaned. They stayed so nice. Their coats looked like someone had polished them.


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

I fed a raw diet to Jazz and our old Lab (they both loved it and thrived on it) until we got Blue as a 10 week old pup. I wasn't sure I could get the nutritional balance right for a dog that young, so I went back to kibble, but I'm seriously considering going back to raw. In any event, both poodles love the chicken feet, which aren't as hard as bone. You can get them frozen, in bags of 20, I think, from My Pet Carnivore.

https://www.mypetcarnivore.com/index.php?lang=en


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

JudyD said:


> I fed a raw diet to Jazz and our old Lab (they both loved it and thrived on it) until we got Blue as a 10 week old pup. I wasn't sure I could get the nutritional balance right for a dog that young, so I went back to kibble, but I'm seriously considering going back to raw.


I have decided after my experience that if I get another puppy Spoo I will feed him raw from the beginning. I trust it that much.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Do you feed only meat - no fruits or vegetables, or even tripe?


I feed him the fruits and veggies that he likes. For some reason he cannot digest some of them that many people feed and now refuses them. They would come out totally undigested, one end or the other. For instance carrots.

However he loves berries, blueberries, blackberries, raspberries, strawberries, etc. Of course the most expensive things dang it. Fortunately he also likes bananas He won't touch other cheaper fruits like apples, oranges, etc.

He will eat some cooked veggies, like brocalli with butter, and several without butter like winter squash, sweet potatoes and yams, pumpkin.....

I would love to feed him tripe but cannot find a source of raw within several hundred miles unfortunately. I've looked into having it shipped frozen but the cost became prohibitive. Tripe is of course also meat


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

I added fruits and veggies to my dogs' raw diet, not for the nutritional value but as fiber, to replace the skin, fur, etc. that they'd get if they were catching their own food. Once a week, I chopped and ground a combination of veggies (bell peppers, carrots, kale, broccoli, sweet potatoes, green beans, cabbage, pumpkin, etc.) and froze them in muffin cups, so I could thaw and add with each meal, and just added fruit when I had some. I did order the frozen tripe from MPC, but, as kontiki says, it's expensive that way, so they didn't get it very often.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

kontiki said:


> I feed him the fruits and veggies that he likes. For some reason he cannot digest some of them that many people feed and now refuses them. They would come out totally undigested, one end or the other. For instance carrots.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thought that tripe was the intestines, which would include the grains and vegetables that the obey animal eats?


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I thought that tripe was the intestines, which would include the grains and vegetables that the obey animal eats?



Tripe is the first or second stomach of a ruminant like a cow. When feeding raw it's best to get green tripe which hasn't been processed and bleached (which destroys all the nutrients tripe provides) but it can be very hard to find green tripe. Green tripe is fed more for the the wonderful digestive enzymes and probiotics it contains than for any left over food particles. It is also a great source for a perfect calcium to phosphorus ratio and has a couple essential fatty acids. 

Green tripe 







Bleached tripe


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