# Vaccination Reactions!



## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

My chihuahua Emilio had a reaction to Rabies vaccine as well. His appeared about 2 months after getting the vaccine. The tips of his ears started scabbing up and then the edges started falling off! He had Rabies Induced Vasculitis.

I took him to my vet, and told him MY diagnosis, and he literally rolled his eyes and said he had never heard of vasculitis being caused by the Rabies vaccine and that I must be mistaken. Whatever, he gave me the meds to treat and sent me on my way. I came back in two weeks later for a re-check, and he made some kind of comment, like "well I guess he can no longer get the Rabies vaccine". I said, "Oh?, so you now agree with me?". He said he looked in to it and I was right! lol

I too am in California, and when his Rabies vaccine came due this year I had to send in a form to the city, filled out by my vet, requesting to be excused from the vaccine. This was about 3 months ago and I have not heard back...still waiting. If they require me to give him the vaccine I don't know what I will do, I certainly won't give the vaccine, but I have to figure out how else to get around it. He is an indoor only dog, and does not come in contact with other animals. He goes outside only to go potty and then is right back in.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Oh, that's a shame!
Never had a vaccine reaction, but I have my girls tittered for the core vaccines, and for the rabies, ask the Vet to give half a dose.
If there was not a "legal" way to skip the rabies, for your dogs who had bad reactions, I would ask the Vet to find an "under the table" (or in the sink;-) way to skip it!


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## Vanilla-Yazoo (Jun 2, 2013)

that is horiffic! I hope that the vet can help settle the issue with her allergy with the council so they wont charge you or force her to have them, wouldnt that itself be a case of animal cruelty if they did insist even knowing she is allergic?

I am very thankful that over here we dont have the rabies jab, all dogs coming into the country must have it, but any born here or living here are fine without, just the normal 'booster' jab.
I will ask my vet for more details on how long the annual ones really last.
I noticed a lump on my oh's sisters black lab, she said it was from her flea treatment so I recommended adding mint to her diet and spraying her with lavender in water before and after walking her, I hope she dose.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Yes Vets can be quiet stuck up. Thankfully I have dealt with this vet before and he knows my back round so he has some respect for what I say. Also because he knows that I know what he is liable for.That is exactly what started happening to Branna's ears,but thankfully I caught it soon enough that the tips didn't start falling off. My vet said there was not much that we could do for her except steroids (which I really didn't want to do) and letting her body fight it out. I went for the second option and did some at home therapy such as oil treatments for the dried out skin and anti itch creams for the itchiness. These helped immensely and I think this is what kept the tips of her ears from falling off. 
At least your vet finally agreed that you were right! I have very rarely seen vets do that! Its's nice to know that you filed for the exemption. Was it difficult? I am so worried about this when I have to do it (not until 2015). I figure sense I have a letter from the vet they wont deny the exemption, at least that's what the ladies at animal control said. If they do though I will probably just say that we don't have her anymore and keep her hidden,because I will not give her that vaccine again!



N2Mischief said:


> My chihuahua Emilio had a reaction to Rabies vaccine as well. His appeared about 2 months after getting the vaccine. The tips of his ears started scabbing up and then the edges started falling off! He had Rabies Induced Vasculitis.
> 
> I took him to my vet, and told him MY diagnosis, and he literally rolled his eyes and said he had never heard of vasculitis being caused by the Rabies vaccine and that I must be mistaken. Whatever, he gave me the meds to treat and sent me on my way. I came back in two weeks later for a re-check, and he made some kind of comment, like "well I guess he can no longer get the Rabies vaccine". I said, "Oh?, so you now agree with me?". He said he looked in to it and I was right! lol
> 
> I too am in California, and when his Rabies vaccine came due this year I had to send in a form to the city, filled out by my vet, requesting to be excused from the vaccine. This was about 3 months ago and I have not heard back...still waiting. If they require me to give him the vaccine I don't know what I will do, I certainly won't give the vaccine, but I have to figure out how else to get around it. He is an indoor only dog, and does not come in contact with other animals. He goes outside only to go potty and then is right back in.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

It wasn't hard to fill out, in fact I was a little put off because it didn't ask for an explanation other than the vets diagnosis and he signed it. So I wrote a plea on the back of the form, explaining how painful it was for my dog and how his chances of getting bit by a rabid animal is so slim. I paid the license fee but am still waiting on the decision.


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

Here's some information about rabies vaccine exemptions in the US from the Rabies Challenge Fund: 
States with Medical Exemptions in Lieu of Rabies Vaccination


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Thank you Cookie face, hopefully Emilio will be approved. All my other animals are vaccinated including Misha. I believe in vaccinations, though I have changed the protocol I use on my animals to run titers and only vaccinate when needed. But they all have their core vaccines and rabies every three years as required by law. Emilio is never off my property unless he goes to the vet. He does go for an occasional ride in the car to pick up fast food or run to Lowes, but then he is in my arms.


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## Angl (Nov 9, 2012)

None of my dogs have ever had a reaction from the rabies vaccine. However, an Akita that I had many years ago had an immediate reaction to the combo vaccine. Not sure what is in it.
Her face puffed up and eyes swelled shut. She was sitting in backseat of my car and I could see it in the rear view mirror. Just made a U-turn and went back to vet.

They gave her Benadryl and kept her for the day. She never got the combo vaccine again and neither have any of my other dogs since.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I always have the vet administer a shot of Benadryl before any vaccine shot. I also only get one vaccine administered on a visit.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

CT Girl, I do too. Which does help for immediate reactions. But for the Rabies reaction it happened 2 months later, the antihistamine was no help. I too get the vaccines separate. I waited 10 weeks after Mishas last core vaccine to give the Rabies vaccine. Never can be too careful!


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## katbrat (May 8, 2011)

How do you request titers be done and what exactly does that mean? Will all vets do them if requested? I would like to learn more about this. I did not realize until I read it here that the rabies vacccine is the same dose no matter the size of the dog, which I just can't fathom.  Lexi went to the vet about a month ago and got all her boosters except rabies because it wasn't due. Two days later, she came down with very bad diarrhea two days later that lasted for four days. When I called the vets office back to see if there could be and chance the two could be realted, I was told no. All I do know, is she is not feed off the table, we are VERY carefull what she eats and she had not gotten into anything.


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## jazzipoodle (Mar 30, 2010)

Years ago my cocker spaniel got the rabies and the combo shot at the same time and had a terrible reaction to it. His head swelled up and he was in horrible distress. We went back to the vet and they gave him a shot (I don't remember if it was antihistamine or what) and after that he always had an antihistamine shot before vaccination. Nowadays I get the rabies on one visit and the other shot on another. My vet thinks I'm crazy but it's my dogs health at stake. I've read that cats sometimes get cancer at the injection site. So sorry to hear your tiny dog has had such a rough time of it.


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## FozziesMom (Jun 23, 2010)

katbrat said:


> How do you request titers be done and what exactly does that mean? Will all vets do them if requested? I would like to learn more about this.


I have Fozzie titered each year. It's not cheap. Here in the Bay Area it's about $150. It's just a blood test where they check the levels of antibodies. here in California a titer is a proof of vaccine and considered legal. Thank you to those activists who got this done! As you have learned the cost and inconvenience of an additional vet visit is a small price to pay. I ask the vet before I see them if they know why i want titers and if they understand. If not, they are not my vet. 

Fozzie had his normal puppy shots and his one year boosters. At 2 years the vet said his titers were so high he didn't need any vaccines beyond the annual bortadella required for boarding and grooming. 

At 3 years, his titer came back lower for DHPP so we gave that + bortadella.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

My new vet encourages titters - if you get them done and they are low, no charge for the vaccine!
Teaka had a low parvovirus titter at age 3 and since then has not needed another vaccine.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Oh by the way - have you noticed that Dr Dodds says to titter every 3 years? If cost is a concern, I would not rush to do it every year- especially after age 4 or 5.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

really I have thought about asking for the titter test, but a lot of the vets around her are not willing to do it. And of course Animal Control will not accept a titter instead of the vaccine. So it would be kind of pointless except for the reassurance it would give me to know that she was protected.


Tiny Poodles said:


> Oh, that's a shame!
> Never had a vaccine reaction, but I have my girls tittered for the core vaccines, and for the rabies, ask the Vet to give half a dose.
> If there was not a "legal" way to skip the rabies, for your dogs who had bad reactions, I would ask the Vet to find an "under the table" (or in the sink;-) way to skip it!


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

I hope so too,he is willing to write the letter to them so I son't think I will have to worry. And ya you would think making a dog suffer through that would be considered animal cruelty! 

That would be awesome if we didn't have such a fuss over the rabies vaccine here. Don't get me wrong I am all for doing the proper vaccinations and stuff but really to make them get it when they are still protected seems a bit ridiculous to me. The word Overkill comes to mind. I think it is a law not for the well being of the dog but more the the fact that it makes people have to take responsibility for their pets or pay a huge fine. It forces people to come into Animal Control and get their dog Licensed which can not be done without the rabies vaccine, and if you don't have them sterilized instead of costing $13 it costs $75, so once again it makes people do the responsible thing and get their pet altered. So in a way I can see the method to their madness but I still think it is overkill with the vaccines. Especially the ones that are not required by law. And the thing is it effects the people that try to do the right things more than it does the people who don't.


Vanilla-Yazoo said:


> that is horiffic! I hope that the vet can help settle the issue with her allergy with the council so they wont charge you or force her to have them, wouldnt that itself be a case of animal cruelty if they did insist even knowing she is allergic?
> 
> I am very thankful that over here we dont have the rabies jab, all dogs coming into the country must have it, but any born here or living here are fine without, just the normal 'booster' jab.
> I will ask my vet for more details on how long the annual ones really last.
> I noticed a lump on my oh's sisters black lab, she said it was from her flea treatment so I recommended adding mint to her diet and spraying her with lavender in water before and after walking her, I hope she dose.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

I am surprised they let you license him without the rabies record. My Animal Control won't even put them into the system if they don't have the proof of rabies right there in front of them. But that is a good idea about writing on the back, I might do that too. 


N2Mischief said:


> It wasn't hard to fill out, in fact I was a little put off because it didn't ask for an explanation other than the vets diagnosis and he signed it. So I wrote a plea on the back of the form, explaining how painful it was for my dog and how his chances of getting bit by a rabid animal is so slim. I paid the license fee but am still waiting on the decision.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Wow! that would terrify me if one of my dogs reacted like that! It's good that you were close to the vet and could go right back. I never give the combo vaccines anymore to little dogs. I feel big dogs can handle it better,but there are to many little dogs that have reactions now. I order my vaccines individually and alternate the vaccination times so they are not done all at once. I never take my dogs to the vet for vaccines anymore (except for rabies) because they do not offer the individual ones. And it is so much easier and cheaper to do yourself. I also refuse to give Boardetella. It only lasts for 6 months, and my dogs never really go into kennel situations often. 


Angl said:


> None of my dogs have ever had a reaction from the rabies
> vaccine. However, an Akita that I had many years ago had an immediate reaction to the combo vaccine. Not sure what is in it.
> Her face puffed up and eyes swelled shut. She was sitting in backseat of my car and I could see it in the rear view mirror. Just made a U-turn and went back to vet.
> 
> They gave her Benadryl and kept her for the day. She never got the combo vaccine again and neither have any of my other dogs since.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Yes that is what my vet was worried about when she had the reaction to the very first one. That's why he told me to let him know if the lump did not go down in size he would have to call the vaccination producer and report it. He said it is very rare in dogs and mostly happens in cats. 


jazzipoodle said:


> Years ago my cocker spaniel got the rabies and the combo shot at the same time and had a terrible reaction to it. His head swelled up and he was in horrible distress. We went back to the vet and they gave him a shot (I don't remember if it was antihistamine or what) and after that he always had an antihistamine shot before vaccination. Nowadays I get the rabies on one visit and the other shot on another. My vet thinks I'm crazy but it's my dogs health at stake. I've read that cats sometimes get cancer at the injection site. So sorry to hear your tiny dog has had such a rough time of it.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I used the Dodds lab testing for titers last year for Sunny and it was much much cheaper than having done at the vet. Here is a link, and I believe includes the information. I had to have my vet draw the blood for titers and then then mailed to the lab, and got the results. Seriously was 3X more to have my vet do the same thing.

HEMOPET.HTM


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

katbrat said:


> How do you request titers be done and what exactly does that mean? Will all vets do them if requested? I would like to learn more about this. I did not realize until I read it here that the rabies vacccine is the same dose no matter the size of the dog, which I just can't fathom.  Lexi went to the vet about a month ago and got all her boosters except rabies because it wasn't due. Two days later, she came down with very bad diarrhea two days later that lasted for four days. When I called the vets office back to see if there could be and chance the two could be realted, I was told no. All I do know, is she is not feed off the table, we are VERY carefull what she eats and she had not gotten into anything.


A lot of Vet's are against titers - they will tell you that it really has not been proven to be reliable (despite the fact that all of the major Veterinary Organizations, have agreed that it is, and also accept the research that proves that the core vaccines are good for a minimum of 3 years), but hum, could it be that the vaccines cost them maybe 25 cents a pop, and they charge you $40 - $100, plus the exam fee?!

I would not go to a Vet who insisted upon vaccinating every year and who would not do titers, because that would be absolute evidence that they care more about their wallets then my dog's well being!
And as for the rabies, half a dose for the sink, and half a dose for the poodle - what sane Vet would think that my city dogs have any risk of contracting rabies?!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Being in city is no guarantee against rabies. I was bitten by a bat in Manhatten. It was tested and fortunately did not have rabies but there were infected bats in the area. In 2006 a person was bitten by a rabid kitten on Staten Island and in D.C. 5 people were treated for rabies after exposure to an infected kitten.

My vet is a big proponent of titers. Unfortunately titers are not accepted by the state for rabies but she has joined with some other vets for the legislature to change this. A long shot, but at least she is fighting the good fight.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I find that it is rare for a vet to insist on vaccinating every year -- other than those required by law such as Rabies. A good vet will work with you.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CT Girl said:


> Being in city is no guarantee against rabies. I was bitten by a bat in Manhatten. It was tested and fortunately did not have rabies but there were infected bats in the area. In 2006 a person was bitten by a rabid kitten on Staten Island and in D.C. 5 people were treated for rabies after exposure to an infected kitten.
> 
> My vet is a big proponent of titers. Unfortunately titers are not accepted by the state for rabies but she has joined with some other vets for the legislature to change this. A long shot, but at least she is fighting the good fight.


Omg you must tell me where you found a bat in NYC and how it was caught for testing! Last I heard there had not been a case of rabies in the us in like 50 years - did not hear of the cases that you sited. But anyhow why assume that half the does that a Mastiff gets would not be enough for a toy poodle? I know that dr Dodd said that half a dose of the cores works for small dogs - I wonder if she has addressed that for rabies?
Your Vet sounds great!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

The way I was bitten was bizarre. My brother had been very ill and my sister and I gave his apartment a thorough cleaning. At some point in the day we opened a window. I was working in the kitchen and reached into a cabinet when something jumped out. I blocked it with my hand and ran into the next room and said either a bat or a rat just came at me from your kitchen cabinet. My brother was very insulted and said his apartment did not have rats and certainly not bats! Then the bat came flying into the bedroom and we all hid in the closet. We were aware that rabid bats were in the area as it had been in the news. We had a phone and tried to call animal control. Can you believe there is no animal control in Manhattan? We then called police and two patrolmen came out. They said they were afraid of bats and they called the SWAT team who came from a hostage situation. An army of heavily armed men came and stormed his apartment. We heard lots of banging and out they came with the dead bat in a shoebox that they brought to a vet for testing. I was unaware that I had been bitten. The next day I was telling this story to a high school science teacher who told me he was certain I was bitten even though I did not feel it. I was skeptical but decided to call and check on the bat as he was adamant that I could be infected by even touching an infected bat. I called and the girl on the phone said she was sure I was ok when I told her I did not think I was bitten. I heard her ask the vet and I heard him swear and say if I felt the bat it had almost certainly bit me and that I would not have felt it. He also said one of the bats he tested was infected and he was very alarmed (he was not aware I could hear every word). Fortunately for me my bat was not infected. 

I do think the New York SWAT team must lead very interesting lives.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CT Girl said:


> The way I was bitten was bizarre. My brother had been very ill and my sister and I gave his apartment a thorough cleaning. At some point in the day we opened a window. I was working in the kitchen and reached into a cabinet when something jumped out. I blocked it with my hand and ran into the next room and said either a bat or a rat just came at me from your kitchen cabinet. My brother was very insulted and said his apartment did not have rats and certainly not bats! Then the bat came flying into the bedroom and we all hid in the closet. We were aware that rabid bats were in the area as it had been in the news. We had a phone and tried to call animal control. Can you believe there is no animal control in Manhattan? We then called police and two patrolmen came out. They said they were afraid of bats and they called the SWAT team who came from a hostage situation. An army of heavily armed men came and stormed his apartment. We heard lots of banging and out they came with the dead bat in a shoebox that they brought to a vet for testing. I was unaware that I had been bitten. The next day I was telling this story to a high school science teacher who told me he was certain I was bitten even though I did not feel it. I was skeptical but decided to call and check on the bat as he was adamant that I could be infected by even touching an infected bat. I called and the girl on the phone said she was sure I was ok when I told her I did not think I was bitten. I heard her ask the vet and I heard him swear and say if I felt the bat it had almost certainly bit me and that I would not have felt it. He also said one of the bats he tested was infected and he was very alarmed (he was not aware I could hear every word). Fortunately for me my bat was not infected.
> 
> I do think the New York SWAT team must lead very interesting lives.


Wow, that's an amazing story! Do you mind my asking when this was and what area it was in - I don't recall ever hearing about bats - let alone rabid ones! Was it a brownstone apartment (low floor)? I think I have to go and google how high bats can fly!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Oh no - Research shows that bats can fly as high as 10,000 feet

And I thought that all I had to watch out for was human predators, and maybe an out of control pitbull!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

My brother lives on the fourth floor of a Brownstone near Times Square. Unfortunately I opened an unscreened window and the bat must have flew in. I guess the cabinet door was open to and later became closed so when I opened it the bat was eager to get out. I guess even the city has wildlife. I still can't believe they don't have animal control.


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## Samba (Sep 14, 2012)

Check your local laws too. Here, if your unvaccinated (but titred) pet is bitten by another unvaccinated (+/- titred) animal, YOUR dog could be issued to isolation for 6 months. Why...no idea, its a bit rediculous - but law is law. Best to inform yourself. 

Also, coming from the CDC (not vets) here is the statement regarding titres: Titers do not directly correlate with protection because other immunologic factors also play a role in preventing rabies, and the ability to measure and interpret those other factors are not well developed. Therefore, evidence of circulating rabies virus antibodies should not be used as a substitute for current vaccination in managing rabies exposures or determining the need for booster vaccinations in animals.

Im not pro rabies vaccine here - I do mine minimally, but just wanted to put it out there that titres for people and animals can give us a false sense of security. They are a snapshot in time, there is no "trend" saying you have stable antibodies or they are rapidly declining.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

No one to my knowledge accepts titers for rabies and it is legally required. I think most mean titers in leu of other vaccinations.


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