# Sonne's Standard Poodles



## Alicia (Oct 23, 2009)

I have never heard of them, but there is NO mention of health testing at all on their website. I don't know to what extent you are emotionally invested, but I would keep looking. Maybe someone else on the forum could suggest a breeder for you.


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

Before you just pass them up email and ask about health testing. There are several good reasons for not posting health testing on the website and they may have done it and just have not posted it.

Good luck!


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

I would look elsewhere. There are much better breeders in Ohio than this one. Check this list: http://www.poodleclubofamerica.org/usamap.htm#OHIO

From that list, some I would strongly recommend looking into http://www.deltapoodles.com/index.html


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

Her website doesn't mention if her dogs are shown in AKC confirmation and if they have achieved their championship. It also doesn't say anything about health testing. I would contact her and ask, but it doesn't look promising. 

Here's a link to the poodle club referral page for clubs in your area.

http://www.poodleclubofamerica.org/usamap.htm#OHIO

Edited to add that Locket and I are on the same wave length. lol


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## 814 (Jul 3, 2009)

I see nothing about health testing, OFA, cerf, vWd, at a mimamum. Also make sure you see proof of testing, don't just take her word for it.


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## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

We used to live in Ohio. There are several great breeders, definitely check out the Poodle Club link above from Poodle Lover.

Sorry, I don't know anything about this particular breeder. The prices are low, but many of the poodles in the photos aren't shaped well. (too long instead of boxy) Definitely make sure to see in person before purchasing. That will also give you an opportunity to ask to see the sire's/dam's testing/clearances.

Good luck!


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

I don't know anything about either breeder whose sites are listed on this thread, but I visited both websites and I have to say that the Sonne site looks less professional (lots of eyepopping, sort of garish colors, they talk about "champions in pedigree" but not necessarily THEIR dogs, they advertise paypal on home page, they charge different prices for different genders (I HATE that!!) and the "clearance puppy" has highwaters!) :lol: The Delta site is done in very calming colors - beautiful dogs, good information on the site. They don't seem to be jumping up and down, screaming, BUY FROM US!!!! :fish:

As a recent puppy buyer, I felt that sometimes it was nice to see the puppy prices on the website (so I knew if I was wasting my time on something I couldn't afford) - but I've come to realize that the best breeders don't post their prices because they WANT people to contact them to learn more about their program. I also found that there really weren't many puppies actually outside of my price range (I knew what we could afford, and; SURE, it'd be nice to pay less, but I wanted a well-bred, healthy puppy from tested parents and I wasn't going to get that for $500... Most of the puppies I found were $2,000 or less and that was do-able for us) Katy bought her puppy from a byb for $350 and Meau is poorly bred, and has suffered seizures too. We love Meau to bits, but I would NEVER go that way again!

Good luck on whatever you decide karenm0, but in addition to listening to your heart; don't ignore what your head tells you too!!


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Not a quality breeder that is for sure hwell: 

Even if all tests were done (and I doubt that !!!!!!!) their dogs are not looking up to standard at all . 

Price is not small for what they offer :doh::doh::doh:- one can buy a TOP LINE PUPPY WITH ALL BELLS AND WHISTLES for 1.500 $!!!!!!!!

And as soon as I see different pricing by gender and color - I do not even read further ...

IMO - since you already have a sickly dog that you got from a BYB - WHY would you repeat same mistake ??? : (((


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

I would say to look elsewhere as well. It looks like they also breed Maltese. :wacko:


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Ugh.. NO!

These people are typical BYBs. There is little or no information about their dogs: pedigrees, titles, testing, etc. The whole purpose of their web site is to SELL, SELL, SELL puppies. I'm guessing that they don't even know much about poodles. 

Clues:
They cut their puppy tails wayyyyyy too short (bunny tails).
They are clearly mixing colors because they have Creams w/ liver pigment.
Their dogs are poorly groomed.
They mention "Champions in the pedigreee". :wacko:


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## karenm0 (Feb 2, 2010)

wishpoo said:


> IMO - since you already have a sickly dog that you got from a BYB - WHY would you repeat same mistake ??? : (((


Our first Standard is no longer with us -- she was "pre-internet" (16 years ago) and we were ignorant about looking for a breeder. Apparently I am STILL ignorant about looking for a breeder :doh: ... but becoming educated bit-by-bit. It's hard for me to tell a backyard breeder from someone who has a champion that they breed occassionally. One of my (self-imposed) constraints is that we'd like a small female Standard. Our (neutered male) Golden is 70 lbs....plenty of body to manage . We had my parents' 35 lb. (loveable) mutt during the last months of her life, and found that she was the perfect companion size. The fact that the mom of their upcoming litter is 35 lbs. seemed like good news to us (especially since many fine breeders seem to be going for *big*). 

Thanks for all of the advice.
I'll keep looking.


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

There are good breeders w/ smaller Standards, but have you considered a Mini? The difference between a BYB and someone who breeds their Champion is they have a Champion. Most good breeders put more effort into showing off their adults than showing cute puppies. Check out the links to the Poodle Club and you'll get an idea of what good breeder sites look like. Have you gone to any dogs shows? Not only are they fun but you'll find good breeders that may not have a website, be club members or advertise.

I don't see why also having Maltese is a neccessarily a bad thing. There are plenty of good breeders out there who have two (even three) breeds. It comes down to how many adult dogs they have and how many litters they produce. Maybe the wife prefers one breed and the husband another. Maybe it's a mother/daughter who live in separate homes yet use the same kennel name and/or website. Maybe the person really likes both breeds and has the time/ambition to properly breed both.


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

cbrand said:


> Ugh.. NO!
> 
> These people are typical BYBs. There is little or no information about their dogs: pedigrees, titles, testing, etc. The whole purpose of their web site is to SELL, SELL, SELL puppies. I'm guessing that they don't even know much about poodles.
> 
> ...


ditto... I agree, but I also run away when I see people post on their website "Isaac's price reduced".
Ask yourself why is this puppy worth $400 less than the others?


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

karenm0 said:


> One of my (self-imposed) constraints is that we'd like a small female Standard. Our (neutered male) Golden is 70 lbs....plenty of body to manage . We had my parents' 35 lb. (loveable) mutt during the last months of her life, and found that she was the perfect companion size. The fact that the mom of their upcoming litter is 35 lbs. seemed like good news to us (especially since many fine breeders seem to be going for *big*).
> 
> Thanks for all of the advice.
> I'll keep looking.


Have you seen this thread on moyens/kleinpudels?? Another avenue for a smaller than average standard poodle... Good Luck!!!

http://www.poodleforum.com/showthread.php?t=5288&page=2


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

cbrand said:


> Ugh.. NO!
> 
> These people are typical BYBs. There is little or no information about their dogs: pedigrees, titles, testing, etc. The whole purpose of their web site is to SELL, SELL, SELL puppies. I'm guessing that they don't even know much about poodles.
> 
> ...






The list of things you posted was exactly my first thoughts when looking at the website. The poor grooming and tails stood out the most to me. Then I saw the pigment on a creme pup.....sorry but yep they are byb's. 

Dont waste your time.


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## Dogsinstyle (Sep 6, 2009)

Vicki is in Ohio, she has health tested poodles and is expecting a litter in March.
http://www.autumnshadesstandardpoodles.com/id1.html

Carole


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

I just looked over the site as well, and I agree tails are to short, there is no info on pedigree's, no titles listed, and no health testing info. I would NOT purchase a pup from this breeder ever.


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

cbrand said:


> Ugh.. NO!
> 
> These people are typical BYBs. There is little or no information about their dogs: pedigrees, titles, testing, etc. The whole purpose of their web site is to SELL, SELL, SELL puppies. I'm guessing that they don't even know much about poodles.
> 
> ...


I agree 100% here, but if you noticed they do a bang up job "advertising" products LOL to use on/for dogs lol!


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## King Coco (May 25, 2021)

karenm0 said:


> Hi all,
> Has anyone had any experience with Sonne's Standard Poodles in Ohio? Their website is Access Denied .
> I am emotionally invested in their upcoming litter. However, several years ago we made an emotional decision to buy a Standard from a backyard breeder in Texas - and ended up fall-in-love-with/raising a pup that had frequent mild seizures. I want to feel confident in the health of our next puppy....
> Thanks!


 I purchased a Standard Poodle from Sonne's Standard Poodles four years ago. I could not be happier with my poodle,Coco. I was allowed to meet his parents, visit with the litter to finalize my online choice. He had all of his shots, had been seen by a vet several times to insure he was healthy. He knew basic commands and was house trained. She knows her dogs and could tell me that he would need to be trained to do stairs as he avoided them and that he loved to be cuddled first thing in the morning. Both of these things turned out to be true. We had to train him to do stairs and at age four, before he eats, goes outside, etc., he wants to be cuddled. Coco is my second poodle and I could not be happier. Everyone who meets him comments on how good looking he is and that he has such a good temperment.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I'm glad to hear your dog has turned out so well. This thread was started 10 years ago. 

Something worth remembering with any breeder is that people can change a lot over the course of a decade. Backyard breeders can educate themselves, start testing, and invest in better breeding stock. The owner of a well regarded show kennel can get old, become ill, and start neglecting her dogs due to her own overwhelming health issues. 

I think any puppy buyer should educate herself about current best practices- breeding to breed standard, haelth testing, puppy socialization, general animal welfare - and then choose a breeder who is currently following these practices.


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## King Coco (May 25, 2021)

cowpony said:


> I'm glad to hear your dog has turned out so well. This thread was started 10 years ago.
> 
> Something worth remembering with any breeder is that people can change a lot over the course of a decade. Backyard breeders can educate themselves, start testing, and invest in better breeding stock. The owner of a well regarded show kennel can get old, become ill, and start neglecting her dogs due to her own overwhelming health issues.
> 
> I think any puppy buyer should educate herself about current best practices- breeding to breed standard, haelth testing, puppy socialization, general animal welfare - and then choose a breeder who is currently following these practices.





cowpony said:


> I'm glad to hear your dog has turned out so well. This thread was started 10 years ago.
> 
> Something worth remembering with any breeder is that people can change a lot over the course of a decade. Backyard breeders can educate themselves, start testing, and invest in better breeding stock. The owner of a well regarded show kennel can get old, become ill, and start neglecting her dogs due to her own overwhelming health issues.
> 
> I think any puppy buyer should educate herself about current best practices- breeding to breed standard, haelth testing, puppy socialization, general animal welfare - and then choose a breeder who is currently following these practices.


You may be right. However, I was not looking for a show dog but a good family pet. She provided the AKC paperwork on the parents, etc. The vet records were provided as well as a guarantee that I could return the dog if it did not work out. There is a 'hint of mint' in your disparagement here that doesn't sit well with me. Possibly, it would behoove you to go to her current web site.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

King Coco said:


> You may be right. However, I was not looking for a show dog but a good family pet. She provided the AKC paperwork on the parents, etc. The vet records were provided as well as a guarantee that I could return the dog if it did not work out. There is a 'hint of mint' in your disparagement here that doesn't sit well with me. Possibly, it would behoove you to go to her current web site.


I guess I am curious why you would feel it is not important to have a family pet that is free of genetic and orthopedic diseases. Being able to return a puppy is good! But can you imagine the heartbreak of that? Puppies returned for health issues are typically euthanized. A breeder that isn't health testing parent dogs and is just admitting you can return a lemon puppy for euthanasia and replacement... Now _*that *_doesn't sit well with me.


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## King Coco (May 25, 2021)

Raindrops said:


> I guess I am curious why you would feel it is not important to have a family pet that is free of genetic and orthopedic diseases. Being able to return a puppy is good! But can you imagine the heartbreak of that? Puppies returned for health issues are typically euthanized. A breeder that isn't health testing parent dogs and is just admitting you can return a lemon puppy for euthanasia and replacement... Now _*that *_doesn't sit well with me.


I was sold a dog with backup information that it had no heath, genetic or orthopedic diseases per her vet's paperwork -- I then took the dog to my vet and received the same assurances --the puppy would be returned-- not for health defects (although that was allowed) but for behavioral/non family fit issues. For your information, I have bred dogs in the past -- and I do know what to look for in a breeder. What is your beef here?


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

King Coco said:


> I was sold a dog with backup information that it had no heath, genetic or orthopedic diseases per her vet's paperwork -- I then took the dog to my vet and received the same assurances --the puppy would be returned-- not for health defects (although that was allowed) but for behavioral/non family fit issues. For your information, I have bred dogs in the past -- and I do know what to look for in a breeder. What is your beef here?


You cannot generally diagnose a dog with orthopedic diseases as a puppy. Genetic disease can only be diagnosed via genetic health tests. They take years to show up. Patellas take a year before they can be reliably evaluated by a vet and hip issues can take anywhere from months to many years to surface. Hip x rays can be completed at 2 years of age to screen breeding dogs. A person who responsibly breeds dogs is generally very aware of this.

Regardless, if a breeder is not taking precautions of health testing to prevent disease in their lines and relies on puppy return in cases of disease, I find that unethical because it can result in unnecessary puppy euthanasia or lifelong painful disease.


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## King Coco (May 25, 2021)

Raindrops said:


> You cannot generally diagnose a dog with orthopedic diseases as a puppy. Genetic disease can only be diagnosed via genetic health tests. They take years to show up. Patellas take a year before they can be reliably evaluated by a vet and hip issues can take anywhere from months to many years to surface. Hip x rays can be completed at 2 years of age to screen breeding dogs. A person who responsibly breeds dogs is generally very aware of this.
> 
> Regardless, if a breeder is not taking precautions of health testing to prevent disease in their lines and relies on puppy return in cases of disease, I find that unethical because it can result in unnecessary puppy euthanasia or lifelong painful disease.


I don’t know what axe you are grinding here...my dog, age 4, sees OSU vet regularly...he has no health issues. Likewise, I recently discovered my PT purchased a dog from Lois as well. He is a year older than mine ....once again no issues. You are right about being careful but you are fanning flames where there is no fire.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

@King Coco it is quite common for inexperienced pet buyers to come onto Poodle Forum looking for opinions about breeders. Often, as you did, they stumble into very old threads. Old threads often provide outdated information. It's great to hear your experience with this breeder is good. 

I will reiterate though, the two most important things a pet buyer can do is learn what a good breeder should be doing and learn how to read a contract. 

Over the years we have had many threads in which people talk about the health and behavioral problems their dogs have developed. In many cases the buyer has no practical recourse. The contract may require the dog to be returned, or the contract may specify that only fatal diseases will be covered, or the guarantee may expire after a year. In the case of something like luxating patella or progressive retinal atrophy, that means the contract is effectively worthless. Most people won't return a family pet a year later, especially if they believe the breeder might simply have the dog euthanized. Or, since neither lameness nor blindness is fatal, the contract might not cover it. Or, since blindness generally only develops after a few years, the health guarantee might have expired. Reasons like these are why so many kind people on this forum jump in to try to educate newcomers who want "just a pet." Show people generally have the connections to educate and protect themselves. It's the pet buyers who fall victim to the heartbreak of badly bred dogs.


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## King Coco (May 25, 2021)

cowpony said:


> @King Coco it is quite common for inexperienced pet buyers to come onto Poodle Forum looking for opinions about breeders. Often, as you did, they stumble into very old threads. Old threads often provide outdated information. It's great to hear your experience with this breeder is good.
> 
> I will reiterate though, the two most important things a pet buyer can do is learn what a good breeder should be doing and learn how to read a contract.
> 
> Over the years we have had many threads in which people talk about the health and behavioral problems their dogs have developed. In many cases the buyer has no practical recourse. The contract may require the dog to be returned, or the contract may specify that only fatal diseases will be covered, or the guarantee may expire after a year. In the case of something like luxating patella or progressive retinal atrophy, that means the contract is effectively worthless. Most people won't return a family pet a year later, especially if they believe the breeder might simply have the dog euthanized. Or, since neither lameness nor blindness is fatal, the contract might not cover it. Or, since blindness generally only develops after a few years, the health guarantee might have expired. Reasons like these are why so many kind people on this forum jump in to try to educate newcomers who want "just a pet." Show people generally have the connections to educate and protect themselves. It's the pet buyers who fall victim to the heartbreak of badly bred dogs.


I assume, possibly wrongly, that you dont just jump in and purchase a dog. This animal will be part of yur family for the next 10-15 years. Of course you vet the breeder and read the contract.....not all who read this forum are newcomers to the dog world


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

King Coco said:


> I assume, possibly wrongly, that you dont just jump in and purchase a dog. This animal will be part of yur family for the next 10-15 years. Of course you vet the breeder and read the contract.....not all who read this forum are newcomers to the dog world


One thing I suggest - go to the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals web site (www.ofa.org) and search for the kennel name or a particular dog's name. When you use the kennel name (Safari, for example) you'll need to indicate the breed (poodle) in the search as well. If you do not find either of those, discard that breeder from your list. If you do find that kennel or dog name, note how old it is. Be sure eye exams are no more than two years old (hip evaluations can be quite old - those do not change).


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

King Coco said:


> you dont just jump in and purchase a dog. This animal will be part of yur family for the next 10-15 years. Of course you vet the breeder and read the contract...


Not everyone has your experience and knows to do that or virtually anything involved in vetting a breeder. We see that here on a near daily basis.

The whole world of breeding has changed dramatically in the last decade or so. There are more breeders-for-profit who don't have the future of the entire poodle breed in mind, and the conscientious breeders have more tools to do their best by the poodles they send to new families and for the future of the breed. Genetic testing wasn't readily available to anyone outside the scientific world. There is so much being studied that wasn't even possible until the dog genome was sequenced in 2005. History is being identified genetically as well as health and diversity. It's now well known of the tremendous effect that the Mid Century Bottleneck(s) have had on standard poodles health and relatedness. Why wouldn't someone arm themselves with information?

This is what I tell new members who ask about breeders or a breeder so they have a reasonably good idea of what to vet:

I_ don't know your general dog experience or specific poodle or selecting a breeder experience so here's some tips, some things to consider, and some things to avoid.

We often hear from folks that they just want a pet. What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that the kind of quality, conscientious breeders I prefer to support are always breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions, but are flawless to us .

About reviews, a happy owner doesn't necessarily mean an informed owner. It's as likely they've just been lucky, so far. Review any negative comments carefully, if they're allowed to appear.

Getting a puppy from a quality, conscientious breeder is something like insurance. Their investment in the health, welfare, and soundness of all the dogs in their care including the puppies they offer to new homes is part of the reason you're not likely to find a less than $2000 USD puppy from them.

The saying is "pay the breeder or pay the vet". Price alone isn't the only thing to separate quality breeders from those less than. We've seen members quote as high and even much higher pricing for pups from parents not health tested, not proven to meet breed standards, sold as purebred when only a DNA test could determine that since they may be sold without registration papers.

Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder. The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

Look for and verify OFA/CHIC level testing at a minimum. There are also poodle specific DNA panels for those testable conditions. Those are companion testing with the OFA/CHIC testing.
Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)


A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much to back it if the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

Read thru any contracts that may be listed. If they rule out coverage for conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?

Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times and with pandemic puppy seekers, that wait is stretched well into 2021-2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs rather than keep a website updated.

When you start making contacts, let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.
Color preferences are understandable but keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies. That beautiful color you fell for may not look the same in a few weeks, or months, or years.

Temperament and personality are lifelong traits.

Be prepared to spend in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

Be prepared to travel outside your preferred area.

As a very general rule, websites to be leery of are those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience".


An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. An online search for "Poodle Club of *___* (your city or state)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.


As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, this is my short version personal criteria:

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come. 
Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is well bred.


Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time 

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards and are physically capable by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.

Be extremely cautious of puppies sold thru pet stores, or online marketplaces like puppyspot, puppyfind, kijiji, craigslist, classified ads, etc. Many of these puppies will be mill puppies and while you may get lucky, the odds are against you and that sweet puppy. Finding a breeder in the AKC marketplace isn't an automatic guarantee of them being a quality breeder, but should, at a minimum, mean they are selling pups who may be registered with the AKC.

One additional caution, be very wary of those very cute short legged poodles. That's a genetic mutation which may carry serious life-altering disease._


There are no flames being fanned. There_ is _information being given which can help someone in selecting a breeder. What to do with the information is always up to the seeker.


_ "Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.” 
Maya Angelou_


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