# Curled tails... ugly? Grooming tips?



## zoey11 (Oct 26, 2010)

I have an 8-pound Toy poodle who will be 2 in August. She has an un-docked tail, like our family wanted. We didn't agree in docking tails. But now I wish she had a docked tail? I can't do a pom-pom. Also, her un-docked tail is curled. I read in other posts that some people think curled tails are "horrible" and they "couldn't STAND if their poodle had one" And it made me feel kinda bad about my pooch.

So, anyone have any grooming tips on how to style a curled poodle tail to make it look nice? Also, unfortunatley, her tail hair is quite thin. 

Thanks everyone in advance! 

EDIT:

Also, I thought I should add, this isn't just a little curl. It's a full out BIG CURL! The end of her tail almost touches her back....


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

A "bottle brush" tail trim can look very nice on an undocked tail.


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## momofthree (Apr 9, 2011)

Well, I guess it's technically a fault, but I actually think it's cute! Just my uneducated opinion, but no need to feel bad about your sweet pup!


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

ahhhhhh don't feel bad, I am sure your baby is perfect.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Undocked tail on a curly coated breed, held over the back? I vote just go Bichon tail! Big pretty plume!


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## all that jazz (Feb 6, 2011)

At first I was unhappy that Zoe's tail, (long dock) curls over her rear. Now that I have had her for a few months, I love it! It is so cute. Don't let the preferred "show tail" get you down. The curled tails can be quite expressive and attractive in my opinion.


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## sarahmurphy (Mar 22, 2012)

Rumor has it that some of the straight show tails are surgically enhanced, with some tendons or something clipped to release the curve. 

Other than the "gay" tail, our poodle is technically a pretty good specimen. I suspect yours is, too. Our dog is also a loyal family member, a companion, a source of comfort, and he works hard in puppy school and in training. He has passed STAR puppy testing and is on his way to Canine Good Citizen. He's driven to retrieve, to please, and to serve. He's not quite 7 months old. We are not dog trainers - we go to class with the dog, and he is smart, and driven. 

I do not point out our dog's accomplishments to make you feel bad, but to get you on board with how fabulous your dog really is! When people ask or comment on the gay tail, called that because it curls gaily over the back, you can just let them know that your dog has accomplished great things, in your eyes, despite this obviously debilitating handicap! (I am sure there are Champions, now and in the past, who have had invisible disabilities, and I know for a fact that good grooming can cover a multitude of technical imperfections....) 

Don't take it personally when people say things. It is a small person who must cut another off at the knees so s/he feels taller....

sarah


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

It does not matter what other people prefer in a tail. People are use to seeing tails one way and it throws them off to see it a different way. The bichon type tail looks very cute - great idea fluffyspoos.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

zoey11 said:


> I have an 8-pound Toy poodle who will be 2 in August. She has an un-docked tail, like our family wanted. We didn't agree in docking tails. But now I wish she had a docked tail? I can't do a pom-pom. Also, her un-docked tail is curled. I read in other posts that some people think curled tails are "horrible" and they "couldn't STAND if their poodle had one" And it made me feel kinda bad about my pooch.
> 
> So, anyone have any grooming tips on how to style a curled poodle tail to make it look nice? Also, unfortunatley, her tail hair is quite thin.
> 
> ...


I groom a standard who curls her tail when she's happy. I leave a long "plume" tail. When she curls it, it looks like a beautiful big pom.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

sarahmurphy said:


> Rumor has it that some of the straight show tails are surgically enhanced, with some tendons or something clipped to release the curve.
> sarah


yep-I have heard this too. Seems some people meander over to the terrier area and (snip, snip to the tendon, shhhh) somehow the dog with the curly tail suddenly has a straight one. It's disgusting. 

My girl has a squirrel tail (very long dock). It doesn't touch her back, but bends over several inches up. I prefer straight tails held up (they really are handsome like a flag waving about), but her tail is what it is and I don't mind it now. Most poodles with undocked tails will have a curl because nobody paid attention to the tails when they were docked short. That went on for decades, so now we have a fashion of long docks and you are seeing all the curls. 

If your girls tail actually touches her back, I vote for the bichon tail, too! It is SO cute that way.


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

outwest said:


> yep-I have heard this too. Seems some people meander over to the terrier area and (snip, snip to the tendon, shhhh) somehow the dog with the curly tail suddenly has a straight one. It's disgusting.


I am not surprised but that is terrible to think a tail would be altered so that it fits the breed perfect standard! Id be happy if we stop docking altogether. A dogs tail is so expressive...I hate seeing short docked tails as I always think of how dogs communicate with their tails..Madonna has a curved longish tail too as did her mother who is a finished AKC CH. Madonna was the pick of her litter..yes, its a fault but obviously not a major fault..and to the OP, please dont take the offensive opinion of others on the internet. If you look on this forum and others there are people who dont like reds, dont like tall standards, dont like small toys...Celebrate the good in your baby and see the good in her long tail too  I LOVE Madonna's long curved tail. Its very expressive..and looks so happy all the time! Would I like it straight...Im sure I would..but I cant imagine it any other way than it is now. It fits her cartoon like personality  Here is a photo that shows her tail.


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## Anntig (Jun 9, 2010)

I love a plumed tail too particularly if a tail is thin and doesn't hold shape well, just grow it long and let it flow


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## Paragon (Feb 18, 2012)

Sarahmurphy,

You are correct! We breed Airedales. Many of the "Specials" have been clipped! It is in fact a nasty proceedure, no anestethia, done on a grooming table with a knife!

The dogs with the alteration are easy to pick out if you know what to look for. When they move, the tail is straight, but has a bit of a flop to it. 

I remember many years ago something was done at docking to the Poodles to ensure straight tails. I think the tail was part cut then pulled a bit, to expose the tendon, and the tendon cut shorter than the dock. Back then you would never show a poodle without a poker straight tail. I was a kid back then, so never did this myself, and may be missing details. Maybe a more experienced person on the forum remembers.

I am a softie the vet does mine....

Paragon


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## sulamk (Nov 5, 2011)

In south Africa where I live it is illegal to dock any breeds tail or crop their ears!


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## sarahmurphy (Mar 22, 2012)

sulamk said:


> In south Africa where I live it is illegal to dock any breeds tail or crop their ears!


I'd like to see that here in the US! I seem to remember it being "Not OKAY", even if it was not quite illegal, in the UK... 

Docking tails and cropping ears is, in my opinion, the equivalent of circumcising little boys and doing some cosmetic surgery with no medical necessity or religious conviction to back it up... Seems like we are still in the "If everyone else jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, would you?" phase of change in this area, here in the US... There are more of us "not jumping", but there are still plenty of bodies in the water - swimming along... For the record, there are fewer babies being circumcised now than there were a generation ago here...

sarah


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## kailyn (Mar 22, 2012)

My little boy has a long dock with a gay tail, and the bottle shape looks great on him. dont feel bad about your pups tail!!!


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## miss potter (May 1, 2012)

hi  docking tails is now illegal in ireland so any poodle tails here will nowbe undocked. my ladies tail aint docked and at the mo is straight but she is only 6 weeks!! i did here my breeder making a remark on the curled tails but hey ... dont worry about it shes happy she loves u docked or undocked. i understand ur dissapointed u cant do a pom but it could be worse @D


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## Leooonie (May 30, 2009)

Harley has a very 'gay' spitz-like tail.. and I think it looks great with any length hair. a long plume looks beautiful, but I also love his current 'lion tail' which is shaved witha tuft of hair at the end


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## ladybird (Jul 9, 2011)

Mine has a gay tail too! It's a perfect little tight spiral, the tip is curled right under. I joke about his tail being 'gay' because it isn't straight (get it??) but honestly I don't like it being curly, it's a nightmare to groom and I think it spoils the poodle look. But never mind, it's his little quirk!
the hair is also flimsy, if it's longer than about 3 inches it parts. and it isnt even on the top side and underside of the tail either (thicker on underside). Sigh


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## PoodleMomAnew (Dec 22, 2010)

Couldn't resist. Had to show Hunter's gay tail. The thing is when he is unsure of a situation or person, he drops his tail or it straightens out, so it isn't always this "gay." When he is happy, which is most of the time, it literally touches his backside!


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## Rayah-QualitySPs (Aug 31, 2010)

sarahmurphy said:


> Docking tails and cropping ears is, in my opinion, the equivalent of circumcising little boys and doing some cosmetic surgery with no medical necessity or religious conviction to back it up...
> 
> For the record, there are fewer babies being circumcised now than there were a generation ago here...
> 
> sarah


Dear Sarah;
I am glad we can all have different opinions! I myself prefer a long docked tail, and I also have dewclaws removed on my puppies. I have no opinion on ear cropping because I have not seen it done or owned a cropped breed. When you love a poodle you must love all of the poodle - tail included.

When it comes to circumcising little boys I sure hope you realize the reason there is less circumcism today has to do with insurance companies wanting to save money not because mothers of these boys were given a choice or based on sound scientific principles.

You need to meet a few of the older boys/men who suffered from infection after infection. They then are advised to get circumcised as adults. If you could feel their pain you would know why circumcision was done before the babies felt much pain. The pain neurons are not as developed in newborns just as with two day old puppies who have the ends of their tails snipped and the dew claws removed.

I am glad people love their dogs no matter what they look like but do not equate tail docking or circumcision as the same as cosmetic surgery. 

Some people, including myself, say education can change people and I must say I think peta is doing a great job of forwarding its financial goals.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

I have yet to meet a poodle with properly docked tail that was straight...if their tail was straight, it's because it had been docked too short. If Trev is happy or excited, his get's a "crook" in the end of his...it doesn't really curl but hooks over if that makes sense. Otherwise it's almost straight, especially since I trim his pom to make it look like he has a straight tail. I'm sure your baby is perfect just the way she is, just because her tail is long doesn't mean it's ugly!! I'm with everyone else saying to let it grow long, I personally am not a fan of a band on an undocked tail.


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

I'd like to see an end to docking. I think poodles look good with natural tails and even if they didnt, I say let the dog have its tail. I wouldnt want even my little toe docked.


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## afkar (Dec 9, 2011)

Docking is also illegal here in Australia. I have four spoos that range from virtually straight to somewhat curled when happy etc. I do a longer bottle brush trim on their tails depending on how long their body coats are at the time. I love the expressive show that tails can make as the dogs demonstrate their feelings & so on


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

> I'd like to see that here in the US! I seem to remember it being "Not OKAY", even if it was not quite illegal, in the UK...
> 
> Docking tails and cropping ears is, in my opinion, the equivalent of circumcising little boys and doing some cosmetic surgery with no medical necessity or religious conviction to back it up... Seems like we are still in the "If everyone else jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, would you?" phase of change in this area, here in the US... There are more of us "not jumping", but there are still plenty of bodies in the water - swimming along... For the record, there are fewer babies being circumcised now than there were a generation ago here...
> 
> sarah


I love my docked tails and hope that a ban never comes to pass... especially in a country that is suppose to be the "land of the free". In this "land of the free" we sure as hell is giving up a lot of our rights to make our own decisions.

I think a lot of views are shoved down people's throats and backed with rediculous arguments. From my point of view everyone should be able to have a choice on whether they want their dog's tail docked, their ears cropped or not. Isn't passing a law to prevent tail docking just a "jump off the brooklyn bridge" in the other direction????


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

PonkiPoodles said:


> I love my docked tails and hope that a ban never comes to pass... especially in a country that is suppose to be the "land of the free". In this "land of the free" we sure as hell is giving up a lot of our rights to make our own decisions.
> 
> I think a lot of views are shoved down people's throats and backed with rediculous arguments. From my point of view everyone should be able to have a choice on whether they want their dog's tail docked, their ears cropped or not. Isn't passing a law to prevent tail docking just a "jump off the brooklyn bridge" in the other direction????



Couldnt that argument - that someone who "owns" an animal should have the freedom to do what they want to it - be used by people who think dogs look better with only three legs?


The obvious flaw in that argument is that is fails to acknowledge the fact that since dogs are living beings who are conscious, feel emotion, feel pain, etc, then "owning" one should not come with the same freedoms and rights that owning an inanimate object does. If you think your car looks better without its trailer hitch, there's no reason you shouldnt have the freedom to remove it. But amputating body parts from a living creature because you think it looks better is not the same thing.

I think that the direction of society's progress makes the future of amputating tails clear. Over time, those "in power" have lost the "freedom" to own slaves, beat their children, beat their wives, discriminate based on race, etc. And those "freedoms" are gone because people came to prefer an expanding circle of moral consideration and compassion. The US may be behind places like Europe, Australia, and South Africa, but I feel confident that even the US will get there eventually and amputating tails will become a thing of the past.


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

Oh come on… I never said a dog was an inanimate object and I’m not rooting for animal cruelty either that is exactly what I mean by ridiculous arguments - you know that is not what I meant. Unfortunately, I think one of the reasons we are not free to make decisions like for instance walking your dog off leash due to leash laws is because one person who takes the ugly road just gives everyone a good reason to ban or pass ridiculous notions. Point is not every pitbull owner fights their dogs - why are cities banning pit bulls???
You are probably right, there will come a time when docking tails will probably become a thing of the past… and so will breeding dogs. I’ve seen first hand that we are also slowly moving in that direction. Laws are already being introduced with literature every year in multiple states to crack down on puppy mills (which I believe is a good thing) and several bills this year included reputable breeders where the wording said that they will be taxed for each litter they produce. My point is I’d rather see a society make the choice themselves to go in a certain direction instead of being forced in that direction by a government. I’m from South-Africa… thousands of dogs are still docked each year… only thing is people have now started supporting the local pet shops instead because they still offer puppies with tails docked illegally instead of going with reputable breeders who won’t break the law. (and I don't know of one reputable breeder who sells their puppies through a pet shop and gererally pet shop puppies can't always be traced back to the source) So my question is… if you take some time to look at what’s really happening after certain bans take place… has the world really become a better place????


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

Yes, the world has become a better place, but youre right that it doesnt happen all at once and that people find ways to resist it. Change is usually challenging to accomplish. 

People who want amputated tails prefer that look, but thats because thats what they're used to seeing. Just as fashions from 20 years ago look ridiculous to us now, I think if you had never seen an amputated tail, the sight of one would not only look sad, but just plain odd. With time, the zeitgeist will change.

"My point is I’d rather see a society make the choice themselves to go in a certain direction instead of being forced in that direction by a government."

Well this is a democracy so when the people want change, they often do it through their government. Personally, I would like to the the AKC step up and beat the government to the issue.


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

Yes, we do live in a democracy… and 90% of the people who vote cast their vote based upon whether they like the person’s looks or not, whether some family member or their group of friends roots for him or not and has absolutely no clue what the morals or values are of the individual they voted for… so what is your point? 
People vote every day because of notions that makes no sense because just like sheep - the herds flock together… doesn’t mean they are walking in the right direction.
In Obama’s case I’ve asked people from all walks of life why they voted for him… none of them said because of his morals or values…a lot of people voted for him because they wanted to see him become the first black president… they didn’t have a clue what he stood for or what he was going to do for this country. 
You are entitled to your opinion, but consider thinking outside the box for once instead of just following where the herd says the greenest grass is. Not everything that passes through the government has brought good to this country… and not everything that will pass will bring good to this country.
I’m done talking politics with you - 
:focus:


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

"In Obama’s case I’ve asked people from all walks of life why they voted for him"

Well since you wanted to know why Obama voters voted that way, let me tell you some of the reasons why I did.

I care about the environment. I not only want clean air to breath and safe water to drink, but I value having wild, unspoiled places and I think that the wildlife that depends on those places has a right to exist. I was (still am) tired of seeing republican policies allow corporations to destroy nature for the sake of increased corporate profit.

I care about education, I was tired of seeing republican policies attempt to sabotage funding for public education.

I care about science and the advances it brings to our society. I was tired of seeing republicans wage war on science, from trying to get religious mythology taught as science to our nation's school children, to waging a propaganda war on the science of climate change.

"they didn’t have a clue what he stood for or what he was going to do for this country."

What Obama stands for is the interests of the people as opposed to the interests of large corporations and the wealthy elite who control them. I knew he would do things like end the war with Iraq, protect the environment, work towards healthcare reform, support alternative energy development, and advocate an end to discrimination against gay people.

"consider thinking outside the box for once instead of just following where the herd says the greenest grass is."

If I was a herd-follower then at my age I'd be a married christian with children. Im none of those things because I thought "outside the box" from an early age and questioned the path of those around me. I dont really see how "thinking outside the box" leaves one with the conclusion that amputating a dog's tail or ears for the sake of looks is a good thing. That seems to be an attitude that comes from sticking with the status quo.

:focus:


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

I voted for Obama too... my point was the majority of the population in this country don't know who or what they vote for. Go drink some ice tea and relax.... GEEEEEEZZZZ


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## willows-mum (May 19, 2012)

Yes that's right, docking tails and cropping ears is illegal here in the UK, you see rottweilers, dobermans, bull dogs etc all with full tails, it took awhile to get used to, but I totally agree with non docking and cropping, and my baby poodle Willow has a lovely tiny tail that is almost always sticking straight up and wagging lol


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

Sounds like there's a lot of tail wagging going on in the UK. :smile:


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Poodle tails? Dew claws? Not too important in comparison. I like docked tails. I prefer dew claws removed. Having said that, I suspect that if docking/dewclaw removal became illegal in the US we would all adjust fine, just like I have adjusted to my poodles dew claws.

[Obama all the way]


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Lol how did the style of natural, curly tails end up to Obama? (whom I adore)


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I'm not quite sure and I started to go into my thoughts about him (of which i have plenty), but realized this was a poodle forum. LOL


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## angrymeerkat (Aug 31, 2011)

*spikes curly tail*

Spike has an undocked tail. We love it and we get compliments all the time. If the tail was docked you would never see the cute white tip. It is just another one of his not so normal poodle features. For one thing, he is multi colored. Also, I don't put him in a normal poodle trim, mainly because I groom him myself. It is much easier to trim him into his bichon esque cut for me. I just let the tail grow out. I will trim the ends occasionally if it looks dry.


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

Very cute. I will probably groom my spoo in some unconventional cuts too. My dog (I dont have him yet) will probably be like Madonna.. sporting a different look every time you see him. LOL. I have one idea for a clip thats inspired by the Black and White Ruffed Lemur.


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