# Doodle Grooming



## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

When I took Babykins to a grooming salon, I used to stand with her and the groomer - and I heard the groomers constantly complaining about doodles - especially when someone new called about bringing their doodle in for grooming. They really dislikes most poodle mixes because of the matting issues. They complained how the owners are promised a dog that doesn't shed and doesn't need much brushing or combing for maintenance - so they bring in these dogs with horrible mats and act shocked that their dogs have any mats.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I get thanked by my groomer a lot! She says Molly is the only poodle or poodleX that she never had to brush before she bathes her! The matting thing is a big topic in her shop too!


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

I mostly just feel bad for the dogs when they are in inexperienced hands, who may have been given bad info from the person who bred them. It's not just doodles though, I read a post on Facebook today where a groomer said she hadn't bathed OR BRUSHED her standard poodle since before thanksgiving. She then said "lol, it's like plumbers always have leaky taps at home", but it's not the same because taps aren't living breathing things.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Caddy said:


> I mostly just feel bad for the dogs when they are in inexperienced hands, who may have been given bad info from the person who bred them. It's not just doodles though, I read a post on Facebook today where a groomer said she hadn't bathed OR BRUSHED her standard poodle since before thanksgiving. She then said "lol, it's like plumbers always have leaky taps at home", but it's not the same because taps aren't living breathing things.


That is cruel unless the dog was shaved very short or she’s exaggerating.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

That photo is something else.

I can't find it this morning, but I remember seeing a piece somewhere about labradoodle coat types (hair, wool and fleece I think they call them). The noteworthy thing was that the wool coated dogs looked like matted messes and there was even a comment about how this coat mats down at the skin. This must hurt for the dog. Think about where those mats form: arm pits, the groin area, ears and headfall. It isn't just an aesthetic issue, but potentially cruelty to allow that level of matting. And then they get mad at the groomer that they can't save what is essentially like a sheep pelt!?!?!?!?!

And yes, it isn't just doodles. There was a young couple I used to see around with a black standard who was either nekkid or a hot hairy mess. On talking with them they said they don't do home combing or brushing. They just take him to the groomer 2 or 3 times a year. I've decided to make one of my dogs nekkid on a couple of occasions because I had felt some mats down close to the skin and decided it would be kinder to clip it all off. Like last year around this time Javvy was a mess since I had been sick and neglected his routine maintenance. I suspect many of us have had similar situations, but if you really want a poodle for all of the breed's great qualities you will do what is needed (yourself or through a groomer) to take care of them properly.


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## Scarlet (Apr 20, 2017)

My tiny girl is a poodle mix, and her coat is horrific! It's super cottony, to a point where even constant brushing doesn't give it any kind of uniformity, if that makes sense. She mats if I look at her wrong - always has, this is why I shave her body entirely, and the hair on her legs/head must be brushed once daily, every day. If I don't do this, she gets terrible mats which are then difficult to brush out. 

That's a doodle coat for you! Thankfully she's only 3 pounds, but if she were any bigger, it'd be nightmarish enough to keep her shaving to the skin ALL over, legs and all. 

Crazy to think doodle people buy their doodles in part for the coat, but then don't know how to properly care for it. Doesn't help that they are sold as an "easy care" dog.

I know one doodle owner in our class was specifically told by her breeder that she wouldn't have to brush her dog unless she wanted to! 

Sick greeders... makes me so sad for the dogs!


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## Bevvie (Jun 17, 2017)

Thanks for the comments PF. You've now convinced me as to the authenticity of the original posting. 

To your point of painful matting, Lily, I totally get that having seen it on Copper. This winter with the snow and all, he got a couple of small mats on his underbelly where the fine fur lives. After clipping them out, the look of relief on his doggie expression was very evident.


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## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

the two types of coats defined by the Australian Labradoodle Association of America are wool and fleece. some doodles have wire coats (especially the F1 labradoodles), and a small handful suffer from terrible thick wooly under coat and guard hairs. those matt terribly and are probably what is pictured. most are wool or fleece though. 

wool coats are identical to poodle coats - the dogs are homozygous for curl
fleece coated dogs are heterozygous for curl; they have a wave to them but are much softer than a poodle coat

neither is especially prone to matting. 

what makes doodles so known for matting is that their owners are rarely educated on proper grooming technique. in addition, some terrible breeders go so far as to tell people to not brush their dogs or groom them for a year. ahhhh!!!! makes me want to rip my hair out! 

i’m in a few doodle groups, and someone with a young puppy posted that their vet told her not to get her dog groomed before 6 months because it would ruin the adult coat. as if shady breeders aren’t enough, VETS are telling people not to groom their doodles.

it’s just nuts!!


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## rkj__ (Dec 24, 2017)

Doodle coats are hit or miss. 

There have been big differences between the different Mini Poodle X Golden Retriever coats I've seen. 

So, when you sign up for a Doodle, you don't really know what you are in for with regards to shedding and matting. 

Some will be great dogs, with great coats, and fantastic temperaments. Others may need more effort to live with. 

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk


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## galofpink (Mar 14, 2017)

Coldbrew said:


> neither is especially prone to matting.
> 
> what makes doodles so known for matting is that their owners are rarely educated on proper grooming technique.


Coldbrew makes a very important point; doodles are touted as dogs that don't shed and yet don't require the maintenance of a poodle coat. How is that even possible in a logical world? If a dog doesn't shed, they need to be brushed or regularly clipped. You also don't know what genetics the dog will pull and that's an even bigger issue when you have an multi-gen or F2 breeding.

I am very, very fortunate with Rocky's coat. _I hit the lottery._ It is wavy for the most part. It's a little inconsistent in thickness, but the only places I've had it matt is behind his ears and his tail, where it is curlier. He doesn't get brushed between clips and he is clipped at least once every month. *This is absolutely not the norm, but this is what doodle parents expect to be the norm. * I've seen it in my own family with my SIL having to get her cocker x poodle (he's a double/second gen cross, which makes it even worse) shaved down multiple times.

I think most poodle owners expect coat maintenance and if they can't handle it, they clip their poodles short. I would love a long, flowy coat on Shae, but I know I can't maintain it. I feel really bad when Shae has some very small matts somewhere and I miss them. I've been sick with colds and general seasonal fatigue and haven't kept up with her body coat as well as I should have been (I've been brushing her TK and tail), so I found a few matts on her leg. I clipped her down Sunday...it's the responsible and kind thing to do, even if she doesn't look as nice.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Lucky is an f1b Goldendoodle with wavy fleece coat. Lucky's littermate has a curly wool coat so yes there can be a lot of inconsistencies. 

I brush him a few times a week and he has never had mating issues after the coat changes. His coat is a lot less dense and curly than the doodle in the original post. The temperament of the dog determines how well groomed they are. If you have a dog that is used to combing, you will have a lot easier time keeping them mat free. Lucky absolutely loves the slicker and pin brush. He just sits there and will roll over to have you fix certain spot as if he is saying "hey lady, you've missed a spot." Getting them used to grooming at a young age matters a lot. 

People have a lot of preconceived notions about doodles particularly people who deal with dogs frequently: groomers, vet techs, boarding facilities, pet store owners..etc. Doodles are typically known for their unstable/ high strung manic energy but this isn't true for Lucky. He is extremely chill and laid back. People assume he 4 or 5 years old because of his even temperament. He never jumps up at people or sniffs folks inappropriately. He is extremely calm and tends to just curl up at my feet whenever we stop and sit. The only time he goes nuts is in our backyard or the dog park, where it is appropriate for him to play chase.

Like poodles, some doodles are calm, some manic, some have tight curls while others have the wavy softer coat, some have responsible owners who brush frequently while others just pay their groomers to fix their matted dogs. I know for a fact that a lot of groomers don't take standard poodles or doodles. It makes more economic sense to do two small toy breeds than one large nonshedding breed so perhaps that has something to do why groomers dislike doodles and typically there is going to be a larger doodle than spoo sample size/ client list to complain about.
At least this is true for where I live.


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## Lorib64 (Dec 28, 2017)

I don't think my poodle mix had seen a brush the way he reacted the first time I tried brushing him. Now, he enjoys it or at least tolerates it. I had to have him shaved because of the mats. I knew they would have to shave.

It has grown out some and this is manageable for me. I comb him. And he gets groomed at about 6 weeks. He has wavy hair and he has a second denser layer underneath. 

He has bangs (he might be part shih tzu) and I don't know how to keep his hair out of his eyes between grooming.

That poor dog in the first post.


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

My daughter has a golden doodle, Maggie is a very sweet girl and as smart as they come but her coat is a nightmare. It is very dense, coarse and the curls are so tight no amount of brushing really helps. She just simply has to keep her clipped very short so it won't matt.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

galofpink said:


> I think most poodle owners expect coat maintenance and if they can't handle it, they clip their poodles short.




I keep in touch with all of the parents of all of Lucky’s littermates and of the five dogs, Lucky is the only one in a poodle clip. They post on Facebook about how they don’t want to clip their doodles matted hair. I see them frequently with either long doodle hair or very short hair. People with doodles want to keep the “doodle clip” and galofpinks assessment is spot on. When they are clipped short at the groomers, I’ve seen some extreme reactions from doodle parents lamenting as if it is the groomers fault. If you kept a spoo in the same long doodle haircut, it would also be hard to maintain. I try to tell people that a poodle clip makes your life a lot easier but typically no one listens. 

Lucky’s brother Rex lives down the street from me has that wool coat with very tight curls. Rex’s situation is the perfect example of a stereotypical doodle owner. Like most doodle owners, Rex’s owners are also a bit of a neat freak and washes Rex a few times a week. I had mentioned the need to blow dry to prevent matting and to keep the bathing to a minimum to prevent drying out their skin. I am not sure they fully understood because their doodle is their first and only dog. They bought him as a companion / friendly family dog for their son and the parents didn’t want to deal with the shedding. The little boy loves his dog dearly but the parents don’t have much experience handling a non-shedding breed. 

Very few new dog owners are gonna know what it is like to groom a breed that does not shed. They are probably more worried about the basics. I’m gonna guess Rex’s family didn’t start getting him accustomed to combing from day 1. By the time the dog needs a full groom, it already has learned to hate getting brushed because it hurts to detangle the mats. His first experience at the groomers will most likely be a bad one if he already have mats. He learns the lesson that grooming hurts and never wants to get groomed again. But the owners will still want that long doodle coat, which means more struggle for the dog and more mats...more headache for the groomers. And due to the inconsistency in the doodle coat, some will be harder than others. 

Most poodle owners don’t have the same magnitude of issues. Poodle breeders start shaving them and clipping them from a very early age. By the time they’ve come to their new owners, they have already learned that grooming is a necessary part of life. Whereas most doodles don’t get clipped until they reach 6 months when the coat changes begin. It is going to be much easier to teach a small puppy to love brushing than a large and energetic teenager.

Edit: my point here is that there isn’t something inherently wrong with poodle mixes but the mentality of doodles. If you clip them like a poodle, it would mitigate the grooming issues many doodle owners face. The problem is that most doodle owners don’t expect or want their dogs to look like a poodle. Most doodle owners won’t care about pedigree and are a lot less serious dog owners than the average poodle owner.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Good points Snow! Buck came to me, a veteran of two grooms and I had to do short sessions and be very businesslike just on brushing. (Someone on PF, wrote “He’s a poodle! He has to get used to it!” ) Non-shedding doesn’t mean low maintenance. Poodle owners know this, but as you pointed out, it may come as a surprise to poodle cross owners that their dog’s aren’t wash ‘n wear.


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

Today I groomed a labxpoodle mix and the owners wanted a very very specific "doodle" clip on this dog. So much so that they had me watch a YouTube video on how to clip him. And they had me use a long attachment to keep his hair an inch long (I was only taking off at most 1/2 inch of hair!) It was a big pain and took me forever because I was hand scissoring most of it and it took about 5 hours from start to finish (his hair is very coarse and thick, so bathing and drying took a lot of time too.) I would rather work with poodle hair any day than that thick hair. I didn't take a finished pic but I will attach some of a comparison of a finished and unfinished leg, and a pic with one side finished, before I did his face. And one of his finished face, which looked pretty ridiculous. It was just such a pain to do a clip like that and not have the difference be very noticeable.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

chinchillafuzzy, great job on giving the owner's what they wanted. I hope they appreciated the amount of time and effort that went into that cut. Many people do not understand that hand scissoring is a lot more time consuming that running the clippers.


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## galofpink (Mar 14, 2017)

Beautiful job and kudos to you for trying to give the owners what they wanted, chinchillafuzzy! Like Charmed said, hopefully they truly appreciate it.

And that's why we do short clips on Rocky...the groomer (aka me) cannot find that much time to properly maintain a "doodle clip" look. Rocky is happier and cooler in a short clip anyways. He gets really hot with his thick hair, so I really feel sorry for doodles with long hair, especially in the summer.


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

Thanks guys! Sorry my post really didn't have a whole lot to do with this thread, but I do agree with really everything that has been posted. It's really just a gamble what kind of doodle hair you will get - especially for the average dog owner (or specifically the average doodle owner) who may not be able to identify the different coat types, especially when picking out their puppy. I have seen doodle puppies with straight short hair (basically a lab or terrier coat) and I have seen doodles with the hair that was seen in the first post that was totally pelted. The one I groomed yesterday falls in the middle but the hair itself is so coarse that it is much harder to work on than poodle hair. When I think of my poodle, who has a very thick coat, each strand of hair itself is not thick, but more fine. There is just a whole lot of it which gives her a ton of body. When she goes through coat change I know it will thicken a little bit, but will be nowhere near the thickness of the doodle from yesterday. Poodles just have such nice coats to work on most of the time that I feel that even for the owner who grooms their dog, a poodle is easier to work on, but the people buying doodles think that it is the other way around, which definitely isn't always true.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

You did a great job on a ridiculous clip! I could never be a groomer since I would never want to do such a silly face. If it has poodle in ti and can have a poodle face then it should look like a poodle. Sorry if I offended anyone with a fluffy faced poodle here, just so not my thing.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

chinchillafuzzy, you did an amazing job - for very demanding client. I can't imagine spending 5 hours to groom a dog - that's a crazy amount of labor. When I took my dog to the groomers she was taking 3 hours - with a lot of scissor work and it was work - a solid 3 hours - I don't know how groomers can do it.


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## Rocpoodle (Jul 15, 2017)

lily cd re said:


> You did a great job on a ridiculous clip! I could never be a groomer since I would never want to do such a silly face. If it has poodle in ti and can have a poodle face then it should look like a poodle. Sorry if I offended anyone with a fluffy faced poodle here, just so not my thing.


This type of sentiment leaves me with an odd feeling. I am new to poodles (picking up my boy in two weeks!) but have been involved in the "Lab world." I can confirm that Lab people despise the doodle trend just as much as poodle people. I feel like I sense some hypocrisy about the "doodle look" with poodle people. 

On one had, I see poodle people saying "Omg WHY would someone get a doodle when a poodle can be groomed the same way? All the traits they want come from the poodle, etc. Just get a poodle and keep him/her with a fuzzy face!" But then on the other hand comments like this seem to be judgmental of anyone who would not keep their poodle with a clean face. 

I know I would much prefer to see people that prefer the "doodle" look to be buying poodles and grooming them however they please. I know this probably isn't the intention, but I just feel that this type of attitude is more likely to push people away from considering poodles, if they feel that they have to keep a certain look to be "accepted" by poodle people (talking about the average pet owner obviously, not someone looking to show). 

All of that being said, personal preferences are obviously fine and I much prefer the look of a clean face on a poodle. I feel like I must have a double dislike for doodles (the practice of breeding them, not individual dogs or the people who own them who may have been uninformed when they got them) now that I will be the owner of both labs and a poodle, lol!


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