# Opinion on Owner Handlers?



## Annabellesmom

Just curious to see everyone's opinions. Does it make a difference when an owner, with no experience, but is going to be taking conformation classes prior to showing, handles the dog or a professional handler?


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## Poodlebeguiled

Annabellesmom said:


> Just curious to see everyone's opinions. Does it make a difference when an owner, with no experience, but is going to be taking conformation classes prior to showing, handles the dog or a professional handler?



Absolutely. If you want to win, use a good pro handler, at least until you get some finesse developed as you take your classes. Good handlers make a *huge* difference in how the dog is presented and viewed...they bring out the best, are able to keep their heads up, enhance their gait...etc. The handling classes are really important and great and after a while, you can do some handling yourself. But I wouldn't waste money showing without using a pro-handler at first until you learn. My handler was very sought after all. I was very lucky to have him. He showed Matisse where it mattered and where it didn't make much difference, I did. Eventually, I handled him the whole time. You can take the classes and then see what some experienced people think of your skill and how you're presenting your dog. So depending how long you take the classes, how things go, no doubt you can handle your dog at some point.


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## Mfmst

"I remembered thinking if Tim Brazier had this one she would win 100 Best in Shows". Quote from Michael Gadsby in the October-December issue of Poodle Variety, on an experience judging a beautiful bitch with an inexperienced handler. He was so taken by the dog that he allowed the handler to walk her back and forth slowly. I have no show experience, but my takeaway was that the handler won the lottery by getting the win. Her dog was perfection, but was misbehaving and another judge might have discounted her. 

I think if you do well in your handling classes, by all means, give it a shot. Perhaps as Poodlebeguied suggests at less important shows to start. Best of luck at the shows. I always root for the owner/handlers


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## lily cd re

I know someone who started showing her mpoo herself. She quickly realized sending her out with a professional handler was important. The little girl is a GCh now.


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## Annabellesmom

My husband and I really want to do it ourselves. We love to travel; we go almost every other weekend. In fact, we spent 21 hours in the car on one weekend to pick up Annabelle, and we were back to work on Monday. So the going places and spending the money is no problem for us. I don't necessarily want to send me dog off to someone else to show them and never get to see her or just have her with me all the time. I honestly don't think I would've purchased her if the entire purpose was to send her off to get her championship. I would rather spend more time and money to do it on my own and have the experience myself and with my husband. Honestly, I would secretly love to quit my job as an accountant and be a full-time handler on the road, haha 
I don't know, I feel like there are draw backs to the professional handler; but, there are the obvious pros of the situation. This is my only show dog, it's not like I have several to send off and show. I also don't know how much it would cost to send her off. I just want to get opinions from you guys and if there is any slight chance I could do it myself, I want to


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## Poodlebeguiled

I didn't send my dog off with my handler. My dog and I traveled to all of the shows, stayed in the hotels together and the other people in my Poodle club that I hung out with also stayed in the hotel. We'd meet up at a restaurant for dinner, have a drink or two. Come back to the hotel at night, perhaps visit some more. Then the next morning, get our dogs ready and meet up at the place where the show was. Then my breeder/handler would do Matisse's hair while I stood there and helped hold him. There were certain classes that were life or death and Dana (my breeder) would take him in the ring. Then there were those that wouldn't make or break the deal so he said for me to go give it a try. And that's what we did. There's no way I'd want to send my dog away from me. No way Jose`. He is my buddy and as much as I enjoyed having a winner of a dog in the show ring, there are more important things to me. And I couldn't stand it to send him off without me. So we were glued to each other the whole time except when I left him in the hotel in his ex pen so I could go for meals. Sometimes I brought the other two dogs. But usually I had someone stay with them at home. I think once or twice out of necessity. 

So, if you get into a handling class taught by someone who has Poodles, join your local Poodle club, make friends, it's fun to go to shows with others and everyone sort of supports and cheers each other on.

I remember when Matisse did something really exciting. I didn't know what just happened but everyone was making such a fuss. And one gal, the one who helped show me how to blow dry and brush correctly, said, "Do you know what just happened?" I said, "No, what?" lol. She said, "Matisse just beat Canada's #1 Toy Poodle." That's when he was a puppy. I had judges making such nice comments about his head, his gait. It was fun, albeit not all fun. There were some other aspects of it that I didn't like. He got his championship at 7 months and a few months later, he had all but 8 points and one more major for his grand Ch. But due to an injury which triggered another issue that wasn't going to get better anytime soon, (long story) I retired him. 

Anyhow, if you want the best odds of winning, get yourself a pro-handler or at least a_ very_ experienced handler...probably someone you'd meet in your club to handle your dog in the classes at each show that are important. There was a junior handler who was taking classes to be a pro-handler. She was 17 years old, tall, model pretty and svelte, dressed in very classy suits and moved very gracefully. She looked fantastic and made the dogs she handled look their very best. She was really good. And filled in for various people in our club...sometimes on the last minute. Someone would grab her and say, "Hey, could you take him in? He goes in half an hour." And if she wasn't busy, she'd do it. 

There are a lot of little nuances in how a dog is handled that make a huge difference. And it takes time, instruction and practice to make a good handler. I'm still not a very good handler, although significantly improved since I started. So if I were to show a dog again, I'd still seek out someone who is experienced and good, at least for the important things.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

It is a lot cheaper and a lot less stressful to hire a pro. The biggest reason for me is the show grooming. I have been grooming Poodles almost my whole life, but will not touch a show groom with scissors. The styles change and a dog not groomed correctly for the ring sticks out like a sore thumb. If you can find someone who will do your spray ups, tip the coat at the show and do a full show groom a couple of days ahead so your dog goes into the ring looking like a million bucks, by all means...take the dog in a try to get some single points yourself. But depending where you live, competition could be VERY stiff and my guess is you will need a pro at some point to get at least some of the majors- no matter how nice the dog is.


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## CharismaticMillie

Annabellesmom said:


> Just curious to see everyone's opinions. Does it make a difference when an owner, with no experience, but is going to be taking conformation classes prior to showing, handles the dog or a professional handler?


Yes, it makes a huge difference. A professional handler is that - a professional at presenting dogs properly in the show ring. Having taken handling classes does not prepare an owner handler to compete at the same level of presentation as a professional.


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## Poodlebeguiled

Mfmst said:


> "I remembered thinking if Tim Brazier had this one she would win 100 Best in Shows". Quote from Michael Gadsby in the October-December issue of Poodle Variety, on an experience judging a beautiful bitch with an inexperienced handler. He was so taken by the dog that he allowed the handler to walk her back and forth slowly. I have no show experience, but my takeaway was that the handler won the lottery by getting the win. Her dog was perfection, but was misbehaving and another judge might have discounted her.
> 
> I think if you do well in your handling classes, by all means, give it a shot. Perhaps as Poodlebeguied suggests at less important shows to start. Best of luck at the shows. I always root for the owner/handlers


Tim Brazier was in our group. He was good. It was pretty neat to see him at Westminster. My breeder handled dogs professionally for years and people entering Westminster and places like that would seek and hire him. Those people are serious about winning...certainly much more so that I was. lol.

Here he is in the hotel room, up to his usual shenanigans. 



Dana, about to go in the ring with Matisse









Ta-da! lol.



So there you have it. :act-up:


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## Caddy

When we showed our lab I did the grooming and you can imagine how much talent that took, lol, but we left the handling to a professional. Dogs definitely win when handled by owners, but your dog has a much better chance with a pro.


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## spindledreams

IF what you want is to win and to get a title quickly AND have the funds go pro. IF you want to have fun with your dog, enjoy spending time with them and don't care how long it takes to get a title because you are both enjoying it do it your self. 

If there are UKC shows around make them your first shows or HUGE IF these days there are matches attend them until you feel comfortable going up against more experienced poodles handlers many who actually are owner/handlers at least in this area unless you are talking the big clusters. 

Pick you shows, try smaller ones first, and just have fun traveling and "playing" with your dog.

An experienced owner handler is a pros nightmare. We KNOW our dogs in ways no pro can know the ones he is showing. We live with them, raise them, play with them, learn their quirks, we can read them like a book and when WE learn to handle them as smoothly and nicely as a Pro we can and do often beat them.


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## Annabellesmom

Another thing...
How did the pro handlers become pros? My husband and I are both in our 20s so we have the time to learn. Would that be working in our favor?


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## CharismaticMillie

Annabellesmom said:


> Another thing...
> How did the pro handlers become pros? My husband and I are both in our 20s so we have the time to learn. Would that be working in our favor?


You asked if there is a difference. Yes, there is an important difference between the presentation of a pro and an inexperienced/novice owner handler and presentation matters. 

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Many inexperienced/novice owner handlers have become very successful and are competitive with the professionals with practice, time and experience.


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## Tiny Poodles

What nobody is mentioning is that there is a truckload of politics involved in the dog show world - the right handler can get a poor pigmented, runny eyed, mediocre conforming, lame dog championed in no time. But if you have a really exceptional dog from good breeding, and you enjoy putting the extra time in, then I think you can do it. But don't forget that the pros don't only have the "political connections", they also are very savvy about what type of dog to show under which judges, so you have to be able to accept with good nature that although your dog may be the best one there, there will be many times when for those reasons "the fix is in" before you even arrived, and as a novice you had no way of knowing it.
As for how handlers get started - being that poodles are such a heavy grooming breed, I think that more often than not, they start out as pro-groomers, and get into handling from there (often as an assistant). It might be different in other breeds, but when it comes to poodles, if you are not an exceptional groomer, don't even think about it!


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## Mfmst

A few years ago, I read a book called "Dog Show Confidential" about a suburban Philadelphia housewife who caught the show bug and eventually took one of her Chihuahua's to Westminster. She started by taking handling classes and eventually with the help of her mentor found a great Apple-headed prospect. The show prep/logistics of a Chi seems laughably simple compared to our breed. I would want a show groomer in my corner with a Poodle... Still it was heartening that a relative amateur, starting in middle age, could get that far.

Gadsby has been in the show lane since he was a tween. His first job was cleaning dog poop for a breeder of Giant Pyrenees and helping out at the shows. He watched and copied the moves of one of the vaunted handlers in the U.K. and had plenty of opportunities to fill in as a handler until he got his own dog. An American Cocker, not a Poodle.

I think an even more crucial step is having a mentor. A good one will help you decide whether to DIY or hire a professional among other things.


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## Poodlebeguiled

Mfmst said:


> A few years ago, I read a book called "Dog Show Confidential" about a suburban Philadelphia housewife who caught the show bug and eventually took one of her Chihuahua's to Westminster. She started by taking handling classes and eventually with the help of her mentor found a great Apple-headed prospect. The show prep/logistics of a Chi seems laughably simple compared to our breed. I would want a show groomer in my corner with a Poodle... Still it was heartening that a relative amateur, starting in middle age, could get that far.
> 
> Gadsby has been in the show lane since he was a tween. His first job was cleaning dog poop for a breeder of Giant Pyrenees and helping out at the shows. He watched and copied the moves of one of the vaunted handlers in the U.K. and had plenty of opportunities to fill in as a handler until he got his own dog. An American Cocker, not a Poodle.
> 
> *I think an even more crucial step is having a mentor.* A good one will help you decide whether to DIY or hire a professional among other things.



Good post. Yes, with some helpful tips and a lot of instruction from my mentor, I got better at it and got a few ribbons doing it myself. I didn't show for that long but in that time, things got a lot more smooth and I got more confident. That helps. And it helps to have a flashy, well put together dog with a natural showy personality. Boy, he got lots of comments on his happy, enthusiastic attitude, friendly too. He was very prancy...nice extended trot. If he were a horse, I'd have to say he was an Arabian. lol. 

There were a couple shows near the end that I had to do his hair myself. That terrified me more than taking him around the ring. lol. OMG! In fact, my siggy picture was at an outdoor show on a windy day and I did his hair myself. Dana wasn't even at that show. I was so worried about his hair being wrecked. Well, just reminiscing I guess. But you might get some ideas or a feeling for it from my ramblings...hopefully. But remember, it's not all fun and games. Some of these people are very serious, my breeder included. Sometimes your feelings can get hurt or your dog doesn't have a good day and there are no ribbons. There's a lot of competition sometimes. And a lot of nice dogs. I think that temperament that suits a show dog has a ton to do with it. 

It's a great idea if you take classes and learn if you want to do this yourself. I'd still get a pro for the first while until you learn a bit.


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## Dancer920

spindledreams said:


> IF what you want is to win and to get a title quickly AND have the funds go pro. IF you want to have fun with your dog, enjoy spending time with them and don't care how long it takes to get a title because you are both enjoying it do it your self.
> 
> If there are UKC shows around make them your first shows or HUGE IF these days there are matches attend them until you feel comfortable going up against more experienced poodles handlers many who actually are owner/handlers at least in this area unless you are talking the big clusters.
> 
> Pick you shows, try smaller ones first, and just have fun traveling and "playing" with your dog.
> 
> An experienced owner handler is a pros nightmare. We KNOW our dogs in ways no pro can know the ones he is showing. We live with them, raise them, play with them, learn their quirks, we can read them like a book and when WE learn to handle them as smoothly and nicely as a Pro we can and do often beat them.


I agree with Spindledream. I use to show Siberians and Shibas (sorry, Not my St. Poodle, she was just my spoil rotten dog and I loved grooming her) many years ago and yes you can beat the pros if you know what your doing. It can be a lot of fun and you can have your bad days, good days and Great days and I enjoyed every minute of it.


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## farleysd

Everything every one is telling you is correct. A pro handler has the experience showing a dog, GROOMING the dog, and has the technique to bring out the best qualities in a dog that the inexperienced owner seems to miss. The Pro knows what particular a particular judge likes or do not like, and will show client dogs accordingly. If a judge is a "front freak" be sure to take a good front, if a judge has a pet peeve about gay tails, do not take a gay tail to that judge. These are some subtle qualities pro's might know that owners do not.

HOWEVER: being said,,,,,,,,,,, I love showing my own dogs. For me, the win is all that much more gratifying when I handle my own dog. IF I can do it, anyone can.

It has taken me a very long time to develop any type of skill set. I went to class to learn basic dog showing techniques. A good handling class is more than learning to show a dog, if you have a good instructor she/he will not only teach you to show, but how to show the particular dog you are working with at that time. Every dog is different and must be shown differently, a good instructor will teach you the routine, a GREAT instructor will teach you how to show your particular dog. What speed your dog moves best, how to show off your dogs best features and hide their less than stellar qualities. Also what you are doing wrong. After the long amount of time I have been showing, I still go to class, it is not uncommon for the instructor to yell out, "Terry that looks like S***" Then we work at making it look good. If your instructor is skilled let them know it will not hurt your feeling if they tell you what you are doing wrong. 

I was very fortunate to have poodle handlers and well as some top breeders help me learn to groom,,,,,,,,,, and if I can groom,,,,,, anyone can. 

Please don't get me wrong, I have used pro handlers, and will use them.BUT:

Find a pro, ask them if you can help them,,,,, watch and learn,,,, I have had so many pro's give me advice over the years, once they know you are serious, often they will help. Yes, you might he in the position to be the "bucket bitch," doing all the grunt work, but this is a great way to learn. 

You will lose, you need to have a thick skin, you will build your repertoire, and you will win. Follow your dreams if this is what you want. Once you are bitten by the dog show bug, you are hooked for life. You and your husband are young, learn, and enjoy!

For me personally, there was no better feeling in the world as when we had the very first Red Standard to ever make a placement at PCA, and it was owner handled!

(sorry for the long rant!)


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## Johanna

Handling your poodle yourself is a wonderful goal, but I think it's best to use a professional handler for quite awhile before attempting it. Bobby Peebles was my first handler and I learned how to groom from him. It was a proud day when I was able to win the points over him! His comment was: "I taught you too much!"

Many people think that judges unfairly put up professionals over owner handlers. I can speak to that as a former poodle judge: First of all, professional handlers know which dogs to show to a particular judge because they know what that judge feels is most important. Second, a professional handler generally grooms far better than most owners and also knows how to train a dog to show to best effect. Third, a professional handler knows how to get a dog into peak show condition - coat, weight, and muscle.

I certainly used to put up owner handlers as well as professional handlers, but if the owner has not groomed, conditioned, and trained the dog well, that dog just will not be very competitive. A great book you might want to read is Del Dahl's "Complete Poodle".


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## West U

Yes to what was said above. Oh my gosh especially with poodles. At 14 mos my Beagle just got her Grand Championship. Yes, she had some superb handlers. Aaron Wilkerson who won Westminster with a Beagle showed her quite a bit and Star's breeder also showed her. Star's breeder said I need to get out there bite the bullet and conquer the learning curve and show her myself. I want to try for her Bronze. All that said we are going to the 2017 Royal Canin show in Orland in December, and I am not handling her there. Too much pressure and stress.


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