# Liver nose, lips from a AKC judge.



## ChickyChat

I was really curious about the AKC standards for nose and lip color so I contacted a Judge I have been in contact with for information. This is the reply I got. 

Lisa,
Concerning your question about the liver nose, lips,etc. The AKC breed standard reads as follow:
Color 
The coat is an even and solid color at the skin. In blues, grays, silvers, browns, cafe-au-laits, apricots and creams the coat may show varying shades of the same color. This is frequently present in the somewhat darker feathering of the ears and in the tipping of the ruff. While clear colors are definitely preferred, such natural variation in the shading of the coat is not to be considered a fault. Brown and cafe-au-lait Poodles have liver-colored noses, eye-rims and lips, dark toenails and dark amber eyes. Black, blue, gray, silver, cream and white Poodles have black noses, eye-rims and lips, black or self colored toenails and very dark eyes. In the apricots while the foregoing coloring is preferred, liver-colored noses, eye-rims and lips, and amber eyes are permitted but are not desirable. Major fault: color of nose, lips and eye-rims incomplete, or of wrong color for color of dog.

Therefore, considering the dog is red, which in my opinion falls into the brown lines, liver is acceptable.

As for Checking out a litter of puppies, I would be more than happy to evaluate them for you.

Hope this helps,
Ray


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## Sam I Am

Thanks for the info! I have been wondering about that lately also because Jenny's nose seems to be turning from black to something else. Not sure if it is liver or pink, its really strange. Is it normal for them to change? Not a big deal as I won't be showing her, but I am a little disappointed.


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## SECRETO

Sam I Am said:


> Thanks for the info! I have been wondering about that lately also because Jenny's nose seems to be turning from black to something else. Not sure if it is liver or pink, its really strange. Is it normal for them to change? Not a big deal as I won't be showing her, but I am a little disappointed.


Really.... Does she have the black eye rim's (eye liner)? If she does and her nose pigment is changing I would give her sea kelp pills. We had to do that with our Amstaff Cherry. Here's the before (about 6-8 months old) and after (about 1.5 yrs) picks. Huge difference. I would still look into why that would be happening. Black from pink or liver sounds suspicious.


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## Sam I Am

Now I'm worried can this point to a health problem or something? Sam has had a pink spot on his nose before like your dog, but it was from a scar that was healing. Here are some pics one was taken mid Dec. and the other one today. I noticed this after I colored her pink. At first I thought it was from that but it isn't going away and doesn't seem like it is anything ON her nose. Her eye rims and lips are still very black.


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## ChickyChat

Sam I Am, i have seen people with black poodles at shows use a black magic marker to put on a pink spot on the nose from a scar.


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## SECRETO

ChickyChat said:


> Sam I Am, i have seen people with black poodles at shows use a black magic marker to put on a pink spot on the nose from a scar.


Oh ya...we used to use the "dos nose" I think its called, black color for Cherry's nose before show's. For Cherry though, she was still getting her pigment on both eyes and nose (slowly) . Thats why we gave her the sea kelp because its supposed to improve the pigment. It worked as you can see but Im not sure what to think about Jenny's nose starting to turn lighter. Her eye liner (so I call it) is completely filled in and her nose had full pigment before. 

Im going to try and look online a little later. See what I can find about that.


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## Purple Poodle

Its called a "Dudley" nose. I'm not really sure what causes it.

Some info on the "Dudley" nose:

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/yellow-pigment.html

http://www.freewebs.com/avalontoyfoxterriers/TFT - WHAT IS THE DUDLEY NOSE.htm

http://ezinearticles.com/?Dog-Nose-Depigmentation&id=419294


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## SECRETO

Here's a link to yahoo answer's. I don't how much is acurate but doesn't hurt to read it.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080915051055AAleazF


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## SECRETO

I forgot someone ...I think Randi at Bay Area Poodle rescue told me that Poodle's can get a sun burn on the nose. She said to use regular childrens/baby sunblock. 

If it were me I would try the sea kelp and see if you can get the pigment back. It could take a good month before you really see any improvement but Cherry's breeder swears buy it. Amstaff's have a tendancy to not have full pigment when born or it doesn't fill in completely. The sea kelp kick's booty. lol

However, Jenni's adoarable either way but that black nose is so pretty.


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## Sam I Am

Thanks for all the info ladies. I will try the sea kelp and see if that helps and if not maybe it will come back in the spring. Do I need to go to a health food store or can I find the pills at the drugstore?


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## spoofan

I have heard before,that lack of sunshine can make the nose de-pigment,but it comes back in the spring/summer.


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## SECRETO

Sam I Am said:


> Thanks for all the info ladies. I will try the sea kelp and see if that helps and if not maybe it will come back in the spring. Do I need to go to a health food store or can I find the pills at the drugstore?


I think we got our's at target but its been so long now Im not certain. You never can go wrong at the health food store. I hope it works for Jenni.


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## gwtwmum2

Sam I am - I would tell Julie about Jenny's nose changing (not that she doesn't look TOTALLY adorable with that little pink nose). But since Julie shows her dogs - I would let her know. Plus, I'd be curious to see what she says.


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## jak

ChickyChat said:


> Sam I Am, i have seen people with black poodles at shows use a black magic marker to put on a pink spot on the nose from a scar.


Just curious, what was this magic marker that people used?


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## bigredpoodle

Sam I Am said:


> Thanks for all the info ladies. I will try the sea kelp and see if that helps and if not maybe it will come back in the spring. Do I need to go to a health food store or can I find the pills at the drugstore?



Natures Farmacy sells sea kelp just for dogs ..http://naturesfarmacywest.com/Detail.bok?no=359


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## spoospirit

_It seems that the sea kelp does an amazing job. We are buying it for Taffy. Her nose has lost the deep blackness she had as a baby and is a lighter black now. I thought it might had been due to being outside all summer in the sun. I'm hoping to get the same good results as others.
_


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## Sam I Am

Just a quick update on Jenny's nose, it did turn black again on its own this summer. Must have been the lack of sunshine Spoofan mentioned.


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## bigredpoodle

I personally think that the balck noses eye rims are much more striking..And more desireable as the standard says permitterd but not desireable. 
*In the apricots while the foregoing coloring is preferred, liver-colored noses, eye-rims and lips, and amber eyes are permitted but are not desirable. Major fault: color of nose, lips and eye-rims incomplete, or of wrong color for color of dog.*
I feel like the red is more realted to the Apricot and not the brown IMHO


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## cbrand

ChickyChat said:


> I was really curious about the AKC standards for nose and lip color so I contacted a Judge I have been in contact with for information. This is the reply I got.
> 
> Therefore, considering the dog is red, which in my opinion falls into the brown lines, liver is acceptable.


This judge is incorrect. Genetically Red is in the Cream/Apricot spectrum NOT the Brown.

While liver pigment on an Apricot/Red is not a disqualifying fault, it is undesirable and frankly Poodle judges really hate to see it. One would be hard pressed to ever finish a Red or Apricot poodle who had liver pigment.


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## ChickyChat

jak said:


> Just curious, what was this magic marker that people used?


It was a sharpie.


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## bigredpoodle

Setter are famous for winter nose So I began the sea meal route and it worked . Plus dog food with fish helped alot I had really deep rich red coats on my setters ..


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## jester's mom

I agree, Red is in the apricot color spectrum, not the brown. Not sure why the judge would say that.


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## bigpoodleperson

Riley used to get a brown nose in the winter. The past couple years though he hasnt. It has stayed a nice deep black all year. Nothing has changed besides his age. Hmm. 
I know a couple people who use the solid gold kelp powder for coats/pigment and have seen great results!
BTW, i would Never put a toxic marker on my dogs nose!!!!


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## SECRETO

ChickyChat said:


> It was a sharpie.


If you go to a show you can pick up the nose black there. I wouldnt use a marker on my dogs nose but we did feel in a few spots on our Amstaff for show's with the nose black. My husband says it was called de nose nose or something like that ??? 

Im sure you can buy the same nose black stuff online. Maybe try pet edge or kingwhole sale. Id say anywhere that carries chalk/powder for dogs, show supplies etc.

Are you filling it in for a show, pics or something? I would do the sea kelp regularly if a dog is lacking pigment and the nose black just when needed for maybe pics, show's etc. 

If you get some de nose nose (nose black stuff), I can tell you the proceedure that worked best for applying it. Since naturally a dog will lick the nose right after applying it.


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## jak

SECRETO said:


> If you go to a show you can pick up the nose black there. I wouldnt use a marker on my dogs nose but we did feel in a few spots on our Amstaff for show's with the nose black. My husband says it was called de nose nose or something like that ???
> 
> Im sure you can buy the same nose black stuff online. Maybe try pet edge or kingwhole sale. Id say anywhere that carries chalk/powder for dogs, show supplies etc.
> 
> Are you filling it in for a show, pics or something? I would do the sea kelp regularly if a dog is lacking pigment and the nose black just when needed for maybe pics, show's etc.
> 
> If you get some de nose nose (nose black stuff), I can tell you the proceedure that worked best for applying it. Since naturally a dog will lick the nose right after applying it.


Just curious really, I don't show Saff, and have just started her on Sea Kelp pills. I just wanted to know what would be best if I ever needed it.

So the product is called "De nose nose"?


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## flyingduster

it's called "De Nose Nos", I've seen it occasionally on trademe Jak, but dunno where else you could get it???


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## jak

Cool thanks


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## roxy25

http://www.freshpets.com/Winner-s-Circle-De-Nose-Nos-WC34851-p/rp-601875.htm


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