# Poodle Health Rant



## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

TheBigRoo, you have been on my mind since Annabelle's passing. You are right to be angry. Hopefully your post will be read by people looking for a puppy and they will consider more than the color of the puppy or the fact that there is a breeder who is conveniently close by. I pray that your white spoos live long health lives. You have suffered more than your share of heartache.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I feel for you. I, too, had a standard poodle with a lot of issues! It broke my heart to put her down at 11 years old after years of skin problems, ear infections, bad hip dysplasia and frequent digestive issues. I went on a search for a healthy poodle from healthy parents and I did not care so much that the poodle was perfect looking. I only wanted a healthy poodle first and a great personality second. I got one.  She is robustly healthy- no allergies, great hips, etcetera. The difference is night and day, but she is an adorable pixy, smaller in stature with a mini thrown in several generations back and an agility line (stockier), yet she is loaded with poodliness. I just submitted her DLA haplotypes. 

I decided to bite the bullet and try again for a larger standard with the pretty lines everyone loves including myself. I chose my new puppy from the same breeder, but a totally different type of breeding. I had to wait quite a while for him. While I waited I looked around at other poodles, but decided that I liked this combination of dogs. The sire was/is very healthy and now 9 years old from a wellknown show kennel. The dam was/is 7 years old and very healthy with excellent hips. This was her last litter and she had produced healthy puppies in the past. I got my boy.  He is healthy AND he is a typical looking full sized, sparkly standard poodle with no mini in his lines. 

My message is that a beautiful healthy standard that fits closely with the poodle standard IS possible. I was not convinced when I got my Bonnie that it was. I was very jaded and a little bit angry. You have to search and look through pedigrees. My new boy does have Eaton Affirmed way back there on both sides, but it would be hard to find a standard with those elegant looks who didn't have him, but the last 5-10 generations are a total mixup of dogs, all healthy. My puppies COI is only 2.18%. His AKC champion black sires COI is over 10% with a 55% Wycliffe, but he is older and very healthy. My pups dam has a COI of 2.4% with a Wycliffe of 37%. For a black standard a Wycliffe of 37% is pretty good. Both my puppies sire and dam were from those typical, original show lines. 

I guess my point is-people can and do breed healthy standard poodles from show lines. If I ever buy another one, I will be very careful again, though. I almost threw in the towel on the standard poodle, but I am so glad I didn't. 

Many of the current breeders of show poodles are well aware of the health issues that were produced. I believe that many of them ARE putting health up there with beauty. My boy is young still, but he shows no signs of anything other than robust health and he is beautiful to me. 

I wish for you that your current poodles live long, healthy lives!


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## Paragon (Feb 18, 2012)

Hello The Big Roo,

Thanks for your "Rant'. I hope your tale is read by many prospective puppy owners... I hope that things will change, and there are breeders willing to disclose all that we know. You have had more than your share of health issues, and vet bills, I am sure, to prove it!

Pedigree analisis is a useful tool, in conjunction with testing, and a knowledge of what is not on the books. It is also useful to know the age that the parents and grandparents lived to, any health issues, temperments and what they eventually die of. 

It would be nice if everyone disclosed, but at this time, many breeders fear the disclosure. There are some breeders that use disclosure of all problems on PHR as a "whipping board" of sorts.... Buy my dogs.... Look at X, their dogs are not healthy. In reality, they have even more problems, but do not disclose....At least with dislosure, we know what to breed away from, and how not to double up on risks. 


Please do put your dogs on the PHR database... It is really important to have the data. Even though these babies are gone, the data will help good breeders find the "Real" health risks of a breeding. If no-one reports the cancer, epilepsy, bloat in a line, how can we know it is there? The forms are now very simple to fill out, and update. 

It will take a couple of weeks to show up, as the girls are still working on the Haplotype study updates, and I will be sending them lots of more work.... Please do take the time.... We need everyones help. 

Please PM as to the Silver pups. I have Silvers, and would like to know if the risks are behind my kids.... Pedigrees help, Registered names are best. I am not looking to finger piont, and can tell you all the risks of my guys have that I am aware of.... It is what we don't know that is hard to assess....

Wishing you much better health, and many years with your present babies!

Paragon


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

I am grasping for words here. The heartache you've recounted is incomprehensible. You have every right to ask us to think long and hard and deeply about the responsibilities of breeding, and to become the most educated poodle buyers we possibly can. You are also due change of fortune; may Samson and Luna live long and with vigor!


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## Sara&Audi (Oct 21, 2012)

I am very sorry about your misfortune.  I was seriously considering adopting a standard poodle in the future. They are so elegant, beautiful, and majestic but their health problems have swayed me away.. :/ I only rescue so I wouldn't even know their pedigree. Thank you for sharing your experience. I will stick to toys and minis.


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## Ladywolfe (Jan 11, 2012)

I am very sorry for all of the pain that you have been through. 

I have owned dogs all of my life, both mixed-breeds and pure bred. The passings of my dogs have all varied in cause, as does the passing of beloved humans as they age. Where I live, cancer has been stated by physicians as almost a given. Elderly people and even myself have been told my physicians that they feel, well, that cancer simply resides within us, awaiting a downfall of our immunity, to emerge in some variety. Therefore, when one of us makes it to a ripe old age without some diagnosed cancer......as happened with my sister's FIL, his doctor made the statement that he was amazed that it had not happened earlier. My own father passed on last year. After his death, we found that, although he had never been diagnosed with cancer of any form, his body was completely riddled with a variety of cancers. Might my father have live a longer life? My dogs who have lived to 12/13 yrs, I do think fall into a similar category. Certainly, I do not want them to pass on, and I certainly do not want them to suffer.

I do think you will all understand what I am trying to say in as harmless and as roundabout way as I might.

On the other side, I can tell you that my sister and husband have only had one dog ever. He suffered at a young age from hip dysplasia, and was being treated for Cushings at the time he had a severe "stroke" and was finally put down. My sister had him cremated, and stil has his ashes. This was about 13 yrs ago, and this broke her heart so badly that she has forever refused to ever have another dog.

I take the alternate road in my life. Sure, it hurts. But, at my age, it has hurt to lose beloved friends and family, as well. I know that I was much better for having them in my life; both people and dogs. 

I am hoping that I do get the 12 or so years of companionship from my current pets. I am not expecting much more, as it has never gone that way for any of my pets, although I did once know a mixed-breed who lived to over 20yrs. (It wasn't a pretty sight, but the dog was basically happy)

I understand what you are saying about breeders and breeding. I do think they can only do the best that they can do and I am thankful for those who do. Each and every one of us, dog or man, is going to pass on, and, yes, for most there will be a diagnosis of some disorder which causes it. We only hope for easy and peaceful passings for all and celebrate the wonderful times we share with each other.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Every dog I have ever had has been very healthy and lived to be very old. I now have 2 spoos. I hope to have the same luck. I did not know about the issues with poodles before I got Carley , she is 8 years old and so far very healthy. I just got Stella a few months ago and so far she has had no issues either, she is 2 and a half. I was told after I got her, that she had bad ears and was very itchy, needing to take shots every few months... so far I have not seen this to be true. She came to me very itchy, but with a new diet, new shampoo and more grooming she is not itchy now. 

I hope you have better luck with your new dogs... this is so heartbreaking. I think I would have given up on the breed. Glad you did'nt.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

I feel the pain in your words, and I am so, so sorry for the heartbreak you've experienced. But anecdotally, amongst my friends who have standard poodles (you know how you drift toward others with common interests and soon you know quite a few, even casually or through others), no one that I know has ever had the bad luck you have had with your dogs. So you're due some new good luck! There are still good, healthy standard poodles out there and the points about breeders needing to be upfront and honest are valid; so are your points about the need to do our research before buying a dog. But many people are doing those things and so there is hope for this beautiful breed.


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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

My first poodle died of liver failure at 7 months (we think it got nicked during neutering). My childhood poodle lived to be 17 although my parents should have put her down at 16. She had skin tags and allergies but was otherwise healthy.

My Omar is almost 14 and has never had any issues (knocking on wood) except for bad teeth. Lila passed away at 12 and 1/2 after liver issues. She lost all her teeth as a young adult. She also had luxating patella corrected when she was 3. Maggie is going on 9 and has had no health issues except her baby teeth never fell out and had to be pulled as an adult. Nicholas was born with grade 3 luxating patellas in both legs and we had them fixed when he was a year old. He is going on 7. Penelope is almost 2 and has one patella which is a bit loose but they doubt it will cause her problems. 

I also had a black lab Irish setter mix who was healthy as a horse and lived to 14 despite her propensity to eat bees (while they stung her), any sort of rancid garbage she could find, toys, throw rugs, wood, plants etc. you get the idea. She was a billy goat in disguise. Never had any shots or took heartworm or any tooth issues at all. 

It is heartbreaking when our pets have health issues but I guess they are like humans. Sometimes you get what you get. I agree irresponsible breeding contributes to the problem as does our environment, food etc now a days as we continue to poison the earth with our toxic wastes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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