# Considering our reaction to doodles..



## Fluffyspoos

What do you think the lab/golden retriever community thinks of labradoodle and goldendoodle breeding? Same as us?


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## Marian

Yeah, it looks that way: http://www.lab-retriever.net/board/designer-dogs-t7349193.html


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## Fluffyspoos

Haha, wow, that's one spicey thread!


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## jak

Lol! 

I didn't really think of it that way!

Lab people must hate to see the labradoodle.

I think we think it that way because, all of these mutts all have one thing in common: The Poodle.

So it's not so much the other breeds involved, bar the Labrador


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## kanatadoggroomer

There is even one doodle breeder in the US who has " invented " a cross between a goldendoodle and a labradoodle and is calling them the "north american retriever". BWAHAHAHAHA Honest to goodness, it's true.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

kanatadoggroomer said:


> There is even one doodle breeder in the US who has " invented " a cross between a goldendoodle and a labradoodle and is calling them the "north american retriever". BWAHAHAHAHA Honest to goodness, it's true.


OMG!! And she will likely get $3,000 for them!!


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## kanatadoggroomer

Golden doodles are a dime a dozen in my home town - when I talk to the owners about grooming - (I refer to them as my dog's poor country cousin) - I think that most like the "look" of their doodle and are honestly surprised when I tell them that I can get my purebred standard poodles to look like their doodles in just a few months of hair growth and they will GUARANTEED to be non-shedding (which is what most doodle owners are after). I think that most doodle owners think that poodles don't grow hair on their faces and feet. They have no idea that they are actually groomed this way. LOL


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## Olie

kanatadoggroomer said:


> Golden doodles are a dime a dozen in my home town - when I talk to the owners about grooming - (I refer to them as my dog's poor country cousin) - I think that most like the "look" of their doodle and are honestly surprised when I tell them that I can get my purebred standard poodles to look like their doodles in just a few months of hair growth and they will GUARANTEED to be non-shedding (which is what most doodle owners are after). I think that most doodle owners think that poodles don't grow hair on their faces and feet. They have no idea that they are actually groomed this way. LOL


Thats exactly right! They grow 2 pieces of perfectly round fur circles on their butts!


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## Harley_chik

I know the Labrador club has a statement on their site that says they are against cross breeding. IDK about the Golden Retriever club but I imagine they have something similar.


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## Marian

Kanatadoggroomer is right about that. People are often surprised when I tell them Teddy is full poodle. When I say, you probably can't see it because his face isn't shaved, they go 'ah'. 

You know, the first poodle I ever had contact with was a mini owned by one of my friends' family. It was a black kept perpetually in a puppy clip with a fuzzy face. I guess for some people it's the opposite.


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## amerique2

I have a friend who is very involved in showing Goldens in Conformation/Obedience/Rally and obtaining hunting titles as well. She is also a breeder and very much opposes the crossbreeding of goldens and poodles. Here is what the GRCA has to say; taken from their website.

"The Golden Retriever Club of America is dedicated to the health and welfare of the Golden Retriever breed while conserving the original breed function - that of a "working retriever." A purebred dog offers to his owner the likelihood that he will be a specific size, shape, color and temperament.

The predictability of a breed comes from selection for traits that are desirable and away from traits that are undesirable. When a breed standard or type is set, the animals within that breed have less heterozygosity than do animals in a random population. The Goldendoodle is nothing more than an expensive mongrel. Because the genetic makeup is diverse from the Poodle genes and the Golden Retriever genes, the resultant first generation (F1) offspring is a complete genetic gamble. The dog may be any size, color, coat texture and temperament. Indeed Goldendoodles do shed. Their coat may be wiry or silky and may mat. Body shape varies with parentage but tends to be lanky and narrow. Behavior varies with the dog and within a litter with some puppies poodle-like in attitude and others somewhat like the Golden Retriever.

The Golden Retriever Club of America is opposed to cross-breeding of dogs and is particularly opposed to the deliberate crossing of Golden Retrievers with any other breed. These crossbreds are a deliberate attempt to mislead the public with the idea that there is an advantage to these designer dogs. The crossbred dogs are prone to all of the genetic disease of both breeds and offer none of the advantages that owning a purebred dog has to offer."


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## Mercury's Mom

I have to comment on the poodle, fuzzy face thing. I just came across one of those yahoo question forum things where someone actually asked if they can prevent their new poodle puppy's hair from falling out on it's face and feet. Someone actually had to explain that the hair doesn't fall out and that it is a haircut, not something that just HAPPENS to poodles. Boy do I feel for that person's poor poodle.

Back to the thread, I recently talked to a lab owner at the dogpark here about the doodles and he can't understand why someone would want to mix a lab with a sissy dog like a poodle. Of course, I don't agree with the sissy part.


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## Locket

I wondered the same thing but never went snooping. I expected them to feel the same as we do, but you never know...


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## KalaMama

Talking about doodles. I just went on one of the big doodle sites. This is pitiful. Someone wants to breed their standard female to a male border collie. When will it end? http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/considering-a-doodle-litter?id=2065244%3ATopic%3A1047068&page=1#comments


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## Harley_chik

KalaMama said:


> Talking about doodles. I just went on one of the big doodle sites. This is pitiful. Someone wants to breed their standard female to a male border collie. When will it end? http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/considering-a-doodle-litter?id=2065244%3ATopic%3A1047068&page=1#comments


OMG, if there weren't dogs' lives at stake, that forum would be hilarious! 

A few of my favorite quotes:
"There are LD and GD rescue organizations. So a 'breed' specific community dog enthusiasts exists and thrives for the LD and GD."
Having a need for rescue so early in their development means they are a legitimate breed!?! I think means that they need to rethink the whole idea. I started out looking for a rescue Poodle and found several "doodles" for every one purebred. I'm not anti mutt, but I do not want anything mixed w/ retriever (I just don't care for them) or Irish Wolfhound (beautiful dogs w/ aparently great temperments, but have very short life spans and they are HUGE).

20 years ago most of us would probably have said: "Goldendoodles??? Why do something so silly and crazy! Plenty of poodle mix mutts out there...don't be stupid and breed it on purpose like those BYB's!" 
Plenty of people still think that.

Kat, we're all giving you a hard time because we are quite protective of the doodle reputation and of dogs in general. 
I've honestly never heard anything good about them except from the breeders, who have a good reason to lie ($). The are the most common breed that's complained about on the grooming forums. What I've heard from owners is they shed, mat, are high strung and just as many if not more are affected by genetic disease. Like I said above there seems to be disproportionate amount of them in rescue too. Why would you be protective of that reputation?

"I have noticed what seems to me to be a trend toward riding the coattails of the Doodle popularity by breeding a Poodle to most any other breed and making up a name that ends in Doodle. When I think Doodle I don't think of Bordoodle, I think Labradoodle. I was quite the Doodle purist for a while and even had a hard time with Goldendoodles. "
LOL, the first Poodle mixes I ever heard of were "cockapoos and schnoodles" and there were accidental litters sold quite cheaply. Am I completely out of touch?


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## Fluffyspoos

Protective of the doodle reputation! LOL! That is hilarious, nice find Harley.


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## Mercury's Mom

The comment about the doodle rescues got to me. I think that instead of showing that the GD and LD are true breeds it shows that there is a NEED for the rescue organizations. That the mixes aren't all they're cracked up to be. I understand loving your dog, no matter what the breed, but being proud that there are so many dumped that they need their own rescues? 

The lady who thought bordoodles, or whatever, were a great idea annoyed the heck out of me but what worried me more is her spoo's scary breeding contract? She stated clearly that the spoo isn't of good quality, pedigree not impressive, back to long etc, yet the breeder made it so the dog HAD to be bred just so the breeder will get a new uterus? Scary. Great example for the wanna be bordoodle "breeder".


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## Harley_chik

Oh yea, that Poodle is definately from a BYB/puppymill and shouldn't be bred, but her owner is going to do whatever. Those types are on most forums and they just don't get it. (It's really surprising there aren't any like that here, very refreshing.)


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## KalaMama

Mercury's Mom said:


> The lady who thought bordoodles, or whatever, were a great idea annoyed the heck out of me but what worried me more is her spoo's scary breeding contract? She stated clearly that the spoo isn't of good quality, pedigree not impressive, back to long etc, yet the breeder made it so the dog HAD to be bred just so the breeder will get a new uterus? Scary. Great example for the wanna be bordoodle "breeder".


I know poor spoo!


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## cbrand

Doodle breeders just make my head explode. You know how I feel about waiting to breed. This was posted on a Doodle breeder's forum yesterday:

On breeding an 8 month old stud...
susie - doodleranch
are there any health related issues that would garner his "product" too young? is it even possible that he would produce? any cons i am not addressing? thanks so much!

Reply from another "breeder"
Alysen - Corinth Doodles
Yes, our F1 goldendoodle stud who is now almost 13 months old sired 2 litters at 8 months of age. One litter had 10 and the other 11.

Proof again that Doodle breeders know little to nothing about the breed that makes up 75% to 86% of their dogs.


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## Harley_chik

Have you looked at the grooming issues? It's full of things like "of course they were matted" or they know their dog needs his bi-annual grooming session when the hot spots get out of control. A couple of people had no problem saying their dog was so matted it's fur came off in piece or that the groomer had to "cut a line down the dogs back" just to get the clippers under the mats. The worse part about it was no one seemed shocked by it. I was horrified, poor dogs! Sorry but IMO that is abuse. Dogs aren't supposed to be matted to that extent and those owners either need to step it up or find their dog a home where it won't suffer. 

Then of course their are numerous complaints about groomers not knowing how to groom a "doodle." Maybe that's b/c they don't even come close to breeding true and have no standard. Besides, other people don't drop off their dog and tell the groomer "oh just groom her like a Poodle" or "make him look like a Maltese." They wonder why groomer can't get it right; why can't the owners properly care for their dog?


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## Fluffyspoos

Harley_chik said:


> They wonder why groomer can't get it right; why can't the owners properly care for their dog?


THIS! This is why I hate grooming those mutts! Their owners are SO freaking picky, and these owners don't even brush their flipping dogs. Describe to me (not you Harley lol, the world in general) what the hell a doodle is 'suppose' to look like? An ungroomed, shaggy mutt? I rarely seem a doodle owner that is happy with their dogs groom, and complain that we had to shave the doormat of a down down.

Apparently no one can ever get a doodle face right, but riddle me this.. goldens/labs don't grow hair on their face, poodles faces are shaved. Neither of the creating breeds have hair on their faces, so how do you expect this dogs groomed face to come out looking?

Sorry.. ending rant. >_>


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## Purple Poodle

I have only ever groomed one "Labradoodle" and is was a rough coated puppy that was surrendered to a rescue. :rolffleyes: I hope to never see one again.

That "Doodle" forum is ****ing insane! 

Quoted from Karen on Doodle Kisses
"There are people all over breeding everything, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. The two breeds have almost nothing at all in common, and I don't think it sounds like a good combination of characteristics at all. People get labradoodles and goldendoodles because the retrievers are known for being such laid-back family dogs who are phenomenal with kids. Standard poodles and retrievers both come from sporting stock, they have a lot of traits in common" 

Umm.. can you say _hypocrite_? Labs & Goldens have very little in common with Poodles, even their retrieving style is different. Stupid ass Doodle people :mffad:


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## Harley_chik

I know I couldn't believe all the hypocracy. There was a lot of small poodle mix bashing. They have a problem with "borderdoodles" and "pyradoodles"; they don't see a point to crossing Bichons and Poodles or Pekes and Poodles, but the Poodle retriever mix is great. doh:


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## kanatadoggroomer

OHHH Doodles are the absolute worst dog that I groom. They take as long to groom as my standard poodle clients. (and owners wonder why I charge the prices that I do to groom a doodle ? ? ? )

Anyway, a friend of mine has a doodle and she frequents a doodle chat group and I was encouraged to join the board to give some guidance on grooming doodles. So, I hopped over to the board and posted some pics so doodle owners could take them to their groomer. Well, I happened to post that if a doodle comes to me matted, then it gets shaved - I'm not going to wreck my wrists dematting (nevermind torturing the dog). Boy, did I get bashed for not dematting. Several doodle owners called me "lazy" and why else would a doodle be going to a groomer . .. . . wasn't that my JOB ? ? ? ? Geez . . . .I quickly left that site, never to return.


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## Harley_chik

They're insane! I doubt they care about any pain you or the dog goes through, b/c they don't see anything wrong w/ letting the dogs get that way in the first place. The "of course they were matted" thing just blew my mind. 

On another note someone mentioned their Petco (I think it was in Flagstaff) offers express grooms on Doodles for $45. I was floored! I can't believe their groomers do that. Even if they got 100% commision they're still being jipped.


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## kanatadoggroomer

You know though - I've had several doodle owners tell me that they had NO idea of the maintenance required on their dogs, until I had them all trained. The breeders apparently are telling the new owners that they are "maintenance free". I guess if the doodle breeder told the truth about the maintenance issues and the COST of grooming, it would scare most potential owners away. 

My worst horror stories are the doodles that look all wonderful and fluffy ON THE TOP but the owners are only top-brushing and getting nowhere near the skin where the matting is occuring. Only when the fur is parted does the owner understand what the matting issue is with these dogs. 

Most new doodle clients of mine have matting issues and I take the dog and owner to the grooming table and put one of my poodles on an adjacent table and blow air onto the coats. I tell the owners to watch what happens on a properly maintained coat . . . .you can see each individual strand of hair right to the skin. Now, when I blow air on the doodle fur, guess what the owner sees! THEN, the owner understands.


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## Mercury's Mom

Obviously, a LOT of the doodle owner problems are because they are truly ignorant. Not that that's an excuse. I think most people who get doodles view them as rugged, just throw them outback, dogs. Isn't that what they usually see happening at tne doodle breeder's homes? 

What I don't get is that the people who spend $1000+ for a doodle do NO research first. Oh, so and so has a doodle, lets get one too. I know goldens need groomed and labs need brushed as well, of course much less often. My boss's goldendoodle is a terror. He ate the siding on his house, sheds like crazy, and had to have surgery twice now for eating odd things and getting blocked. Marley is shaved down now because of the matting and shedding and the main reason the wife wanted a gd was for the coat. He is a loving smart dog but is a lot more work and wilder than they expected. They paid $2000 for him and a lot more than that in vet costs and he just turned one.


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## kanatadoggroomer

When I worked in a grooming shop a couple of years ago, an 18 month old doodle pup came in and already had BOTH hips replaced. OMG. Shudder.


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## Fluffyspoos

kanatadoggroomer said:


> When I worked in a grooming shop a couple of years ago, an 18 month old doodle pup came in and already had BOTH hips replaced. OMG. Shudder.


Wooooow, that's completely insane. o_o That poor dog.


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## Leooonie

I cannot stand any sort of designer dog.
When Harley was a pup, due to his untrimmed face and very golden colour, i got allsorts passing me saying "o look a (insertbreedhere)doodle.how cute!" with me coughing loudly under my breath "purebred poodle."
When he was a tiny pup, I took him into a shop to buy some food for him, and a tillworker then set herself the task of deciding what poodle cross I had. She was adamant he was a cross, even when I told her he was NOT.

and Hibrid Vigour? I think not. 

I make a point of educating doodles owners on the inconsistant standard of their 'breed'.
I might even call up a local ad where I saw some labdoodles for sale, almost a smuch as Harley was, and give them a piece of my mind!
I love seeing all these poodle crosses going around like wild elephants, where as my little fella is still a pup and very well trained..


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## roxy25

If you read my thread about dog park drama 

Oddly enough we where talking to a goldendoodle owner. her dog look like a big teddy bear. Anyways we where telling her about the lady who was saying non altered dogs allowed. The lady with the doodle told us her female was not spayed and they plan to breed her.

:wacko: was my first reaction but then I realize this person was more edjucated . She told us she is only breeding her to another F1 doodle and breeding her when she is 2 . And has passed all of her health testing. I was really shocked she did her home work. She also said she paid 500 for her which is not bad comparing to 2k plus for one.


I just don't like these designer dogs at all.


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## Reesmom

Here is a designer story for you. An elderly man walks into my shop with a 4 month old puppy. He says he bought the dog for his wife, who is allergic and wanted a poodle. The breeder sold this dog to them as a toy poodle that would grow to about 4 lbs for $1,800. His wife can't be in the house with the dog, and is now having to have shots to calm her allergies. I'm looking at the puppy wondering how anyone who has ever seen an poodle could believe this was a poodle. She is obviously a yorkie poo or something like it. Poor man gave the dog away and is out all of his money plus the medical bills. 

Unfortunately, we have an unusual amount of designer dog breeders around here. A large percentage are doodles. I groom several and have been in training classes with several. Everyone I have met are high strung and crazy. None of the owners that I deal with actually got what they were "sold" whether the researched or not. 

These breeders are shameless with the outrageous claims they make about these poor dogs.


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## creativeparti

i dont have a prob with doodles i like all dogs.. i do have a prob with dumb owners and stupid ppl breeding them for money and with no health testing 


that doodlekisses forum may as well be called dumb doodle owners who slag off groomers forum 

have you seen this.....
http://idog.biz/QuickDownloads/Professional Groomer Inst.pdf 


quotes from that site 

* Maridith Woodward on January 9, 2010 at 2:16pm 
My breeder gave me that same document when we picked her up. You are right. It has been a godsend with groomers. It is pretty fool proof.*


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## Winnow

I just love this 

http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/goldendoodle-shedding

If you did not want a shedding dog why get something that is mixed with a golden they shed a lot 

It is so funny to think that if a dog has a poodle in the mix that they just automatically get the non shedding coat


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## Marian

From that groomer's instruction page:

*"Where People Go To Get As Smart As A Doodle"*

ROFL!!


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## Moxie

Winnow said:


> I just love this
> 
> http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/goldendoodle-shedding
> 
> If you did not want a shedding dog why get something that is mixed with a golden they shed a lot
> 
> It is so funny to think that if a dog has a poodle in the mix that they just automatically get the non shedding coat


I think this is the biggest misconception with them and what people are told.
There are however the mix like the "schnoodle" which doesnt shed.The Schnauzer doesnt shed as the poodle,so this mix doesnt shed at all.I have a rescue one,she is ADORABLE,sweet,non-shedding,smart,and YES,HIGH ENERGY
She is wonderful,we love her to pieces,however I think she would be better served sometimes in a performance home or much more active home than we are. I do not support or approve of people doing the "doodle" anything but feel also "to each there own" but where I have a bigger issue with many of them is many of them are BYB,not what we would considered ethical people and not doing any testing.I have seen A FEW doodle sites and met a few, that are nice people,love their dogs,take wonderful loving care of them,and do their health testing on involved breeding dogs.It is these few,I really don't have big issue with,other than the fact alone I think we have enough "mutts" in the world already,and homeless ones,not to need any more.


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## Leooonie

Everytime I see and sort of 'doodle' in the newspaper advertised, I honestly want to cal them up, pretend to be interested .. pop round and then see how educated they are.

In the above forum I read:

'''We got our Jamie for the same reasons most of us do - to decrease the chance of my son having his allergies triggered. Fortunately, even with the shedding, my son seems to be doing fine. She is a first generation and most people who see her think she is more golden than poodle because of how her fur looks. We love her but I still hope that she would grow out of the shedding phase, or at least have it less.'''


Might I aks why they didn't just get a poodle? 

*SCREAMS HEAD OFF *


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## frostfirestandards

Leooonie said:


> Everytime I see and sort of 'doodle' in the newspaper advertised, I honestly want to cal them up, pretend to be interested .. pop round and then see how educated they are.
> 
> In the above forum I read:
> 
> '''We got our Jamie for the same reasons most of us do - to decrease the chance of my son having his allergies triggered. Fortunately, even with the shedding, my son seems to be doing fine. She is a first generation and most people who see her think she is more golden than poodle because of how her fur looks. We love her but *I still hope that she would grow out of the shedding phase, or at least have it less*.'''
> 
> 
> Might I aks why they didn't just get a poodle?
> 
> *SCREAMS HEAD OFF *


They expect a dog to GROW OUT of shedding? 
wow ....:wacko:


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## Winnow

If my kid had dog allergies I would never buy a mutt that was half lab or golden.
I would by a pure breed that my kid had met the parents of the dog and would have shown no signs of allegri. 

Why do all people with doodles think that they automatically get the good stuff from both parents ? :doh:


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## Mister

I think its funny when doodle owners come in and say that they dont want it to look like a Poodle in anyway....well HELLO you dog is half (sometimes 3/4th) POODLE...dorks!

And this new thing about multi generational doodles, give me a break. its a mutt.


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## Locket

I cannot stand reading that sh*t. I am so tempted to sign up and tell the TRUTH!!


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## Winnow

How I just love this 

http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/t...-shed?id=2065244:Topic:257920&page=1#comments

[


> Hi everyone does anyone have a goldendoodle that shed,can anyone help me control the sheding.We got a goldendoodle because we figure thay would not shed
> any help



b


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## kanatadoggroomer

OMG I'm laughing so hard, the tears are coming down my cheeks. What a bunch of knobs. LOL Maybe the only dog owners with brains between their ears have poodles.

I went to the site to check out the post, and it really DOES confirm my suspicions about the IQ of doodle owners. Check out the question one person asked:

"Don't dogs shed in the fall anyway?"


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## Savannah

Olie said:


> Thats exactly right! They grow 2 pieces of perfectly round fur circles on their butts!


Yes, but only the very well bred ones. That's why you only see them in shows. The rest of us are stuck with these poodles that grow hair everywhere except their faces and cute little toes, lol


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## Savannah

Winnow said:


> If my kid had dog allergies I would never buy a mutt that was half lab or golden.
> I would by a pure breed that my kid had met the parents of the dog and would have shown no signs of allegri.
> 
> Why do all people with doodles think that they automatically get the good stuff from both parents ? :doh:


Because the breeders tell them they will!! Every doodle site I've been to has blatantly and unabashedly claimed the doodle is the best of both worlds, sometimes in that exact phrasing!

Really it's not the doodle buyers we should be angry with, it's the sellers. Buyers are only misinformed because breeders are so artfully distributing their propaganda. It's honestly very hard to sort through that flood of false information and find something that's actually true. And even then the doodlers contradict it by saying we're just selfish naysayers who don't want competition for our breed. They make it sound like we're afraid doodles will eliminate the market for pure bred labs, goldens, and poodles!


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## ladybird

Sorry to resurrect and old thread but I just wanted to share this...

I've met 2 'labradoodles' at the park now. One belonged to a couple, it was really ugly, I mean reaaaally. It looked like a lanky labrador with some stringy hair for a beard (which was FILTHY) and some stringy bits at the end of its ears. The rest of its hair was fairly short like a lab. The owners said they got her because they wanted a dog that didn't shed, turns out this one sheds tons and the hoover is out every day (a bit like a lab!)

the other one I met was much more poodle-like, in a short trim, curly hair. Asked if she sheds, the owner, an older lady, ermmd and urrrd but essentially the answer was 'yes'. turns out it was a gift given to her by her son or something, for the allergies!

:bulgy-eyes:


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## outwest

My poodle is in a trick class with a Merle Aussie Doodle with light brown eyes. Oh, my. He has tight, tight kind of greasy curls (like are found on poorly bred poodles) with the stocky body of an Aussie. His tail curls over his back, too. I think the poodle in him was not a great poodle. At the end of the first class his really nice owner was admiring my poodle so much I wondered why she bought an Aussie Doodle, but didn't have the guts to ask her. She did say she wanted a smart dog and both Aussies and Poodles were smart. He was such a sadly ugly dog. I like Blue Merle Australian shephards, but the mix is awful and doesn't do justice to either breed.


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## sulamk

ladybird said:


> Sorry to resurrect and old thread but I just wanted to share this...
> 
> I've met 2 'labradoodles' at the park now. One belonged to a couple, it was really ugly, I mean reaaaally. It looked like a lanky labrador with some stringy hair for a beard (which was FILTHY) and some stringy bits at the end of its ears. The rest of its hair was fairly short like a lab. The owners said they got her because they wanted a dog that didn't shed, turns out this one sheds tons and the hoover is out every day (a bit like a lab!)
> 
> the other one I met was much more poodle-like, in a short trim, curly hair. Asked if she sheds, the owner, an older lady, ermmd and urrrd but essentially the answer was 'yes'. turns out it was a gift given to her by her son or something, for the allergies!
> 
> :bulgy-eyes:


Sorry but do have to defend the labs, my Lab hardly sheds at all maybe cos we live in a hot climate! Don't like people cross breeding though and not defending the doodle breeders!


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## DivinityPoodles

I think in the year we have had Cale I have had maybe 2 people that thought he was a poodle, but most people ask if he is a doodle and are shocked when we say purebred poodle... probably because he is clipped short & quite often does not have a shaved face just shorter face and we do not shave his feet. Obviously, he can't be a purebred then!!!
I can't wait til Autumn is bigger and people will think that we have 2 doodles and will be breeding 1st cousins :bulgy-eyes:


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## Splash

I will try to answer your question of why people consider doodles. When kids were tiny I asked allergist what type of dog we could get and he said poodle. Duh and I had never really been around poodles before other than toy poodles and couldn't imagine one surviving our four kids between ages 1 and 8. We'd had a lab we loved who was really a wonderful dog. Reading an article about labradoodles developed as service dogs for people with allergies made me consider one and talk to the allergist about it. He said absolutely not. Neighbors had a Portuguese water dog kids liked and allergist approved, which is how we ended up with Splash 7 years ago. honestly if the allergist hadn't said no, we might have a 7 yr old doodle instead of PWD

For us the love we had for our first dog, the Lab, made us consider the lab/poodle mix. 

Now we have our first poodle a mini after meeting a friends and seeing how much younger kids, now 6 and 10 liked having a smaller dog the could walk themselves. I'm really becoming a fan of the poodle despite how I miss the days of wash and fgo fur.

Just my experience.

Kimberly


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## Carley's Mom

I am a big dog walker, in the parks all the time. Before I got Carley I used to see this woman with her goldendoodle , I had my shih tuzs and she was always so friendly, stopped to chat a bit. I could not wait to show her Carley and when we did see her, SHE WAS NO LONGER FRIENDLY! I still don't know what to make of it. Now she hardly even looks at me and I never once said a negitive thing about doodles to her. What gives there?


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## 3dogs

I think it is not the "doodle" itself but the people behind breeding every dog breed out there with Poodle, making false claims (esp. about shedding), claiming they are healthier etc... The truth is that the Pure breed Poodle from a good source more than likely have a good temperment, healthy (because the breeders would have done health testing to help eliminate problems), & poodles don't have a regular shed cycle. People who are cross breeding on the whole are doing soley for the mega $$$$$ that citizens will pay because of these false claims. I groom only a few doodles but they are no healthier than any of the pure breed poodles I groom. 1 Doodle has more problems with food allergies, hip dysplasia (already had surgery & water therapy to a tune of almost $10,000) has ear infections that don't clear up. Basically a mess. But then again majority of people breeding the Poodle cross are not health testing their stock.
If a breeder was health testing their stock, working their dogs in a niche that isn't already filled with a large # pure breeds, trying to bring health into the purebreed they are working with etc... I don't have a problem with. There is a breeder who is breeding what they call the "Chatham Hill Retriever". I have had extensive emails with them & they are trying to work some specific cocker genes into their Flat Coated Retriever genes in the hopes of creating a healthier Flat Coated Retriever. If anyone knows the health issue of Flat Coats it is the CANCER that races through lines & why I never ended up with one. Honest breeders out there but getting dogs to live past 4 is hard to do. Getting them to 8 without cancer is amazing & if they reach to 10 then the dog will live a few more years. I just couldn't bring myself to take that risk. I hope the people working the Chatham Hill Retriever keep on the path of eventually getting healthy Flat Coats that will breed true in the years to come.


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## liljaker

Reminds me of this woman and her dog (a golden) Sunny and I met last week. She was walking her dog and it had one of those Glow Green Collars and she looked really cute. Anyway, the female, named Blossom, was so.....how can I say this......not your typical golden, meaning she was not hyper, bouncy, jumping, tail going, etc., but was calm, focused and I may add, very very pretty -- a little shorter leg than I usually see. Anyway, she remembered meeting me with Sunny a while back and asked how he was doing. Sunny was intrigued by the glowing collar and said his "hello's" like he usually does and Blossom sat down while we chatted. I guess she got Blossom from a "doodle breeder" and she was one of the "prize golden females" used in the breeding program. I commented on how socialized she seemed, and content and happy -- and the woman said yes, she had her for around 4 years and I think she was 7. I can only imagine how many puppies she had. I will say, though, she was one of the sweetest goldens I have ever seen and in a nice way ---- very different from my friends' goldens which have lots of energy, tail swaying, etc. all the time. Now, I am not bashing goldens --- I can't have anything anyway other than poodles, maybe bedlingtons, etc., with my terrible allergies. Got me thinking.............hmmmm what would Sunny/Blossom pups look like if Sunny was not neutered! (KIDDING!)


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## Fluffyspoos

Bringing up an old thread, but I found this little gem and it's amazing and everyone should read it.

Response on Goldendoodles from the GRCA Board of Directors


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## tokipoke

What a great response!! It makes me want to say "You got served!!" after reading it lol. You can replace the word "Golden Retriever" with poodle and it would still make sense.

So glad that the other side of the doodle craze is defending the sanctity of their breed. It's NOT just poodle people who are offended.


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## sarahmurphy

I'm tempted to print it and hand it around whenever some of these local snobby doodle people grill me on the "Why did you not choose a doodle?" It somehow seems nicer than my sometimes reply of, "Why would you have chosen to spend twice as much for a mutt, who could not have come with any sort of genetic testing that would hold water, or any sort of guarantee that you are only getting the things you desired from each breed...?" 

(I am still not sure what the real difference is in desirability as pets- they both seem pretty smart, trainable, loyal, ready to please and happy to chase a tennis ball. The biggest difference I see is the size of the food bill, and the poo bags, and the number of vacuum cleaner bags needed to get the hair off the floors and furniture... again, no guarantee that your doodle will not shed....)

sarah


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## paisley pup

When I got paisley at 10 a weeks she already had her puppy cut I brought her to my friend to meet her.she was gushing how cute she is then suddenly she stops and asks. Kim where are her whiskers!? I had to tell her they were shaved just like the rest of her face and feet.I was so surprise she thought they just look like that!!!


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## paisley pup

also if i had a dollar for every person who came in our salon with a poodle mix that asked to not make the dog look at all like a poodle id be rich lol i even have people with pure bred poodles that don't want their dogs to look like poodles!


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## annadee

Lol, there's no doubt the lab world feels the same way as poodles do. No freaking way I'm ever paying big bucks for a stinking doodle (unless I found one at the SPCA to adopt)... I'll stick to retrievers and poodles.


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## liljaker

Always angered me the "designer/doodle" craze...... and I have figured out why so many "oodle" owners are always asking me, "so what is Sunny?" (gimme a break --- if he doesn't look like a poodle - especially since he is in such a poodley clip -- I'll give everyone on this forum a buck). Anyway, I usually say, as their oodle is checking out Sunny and jumping all over the place while he patiently stands there looking at me like, "how long is this going to take?", "yes, he is a poodle." They usually then look at him rather intently --- and then say something like, "well, I guess Sunny is a cousin to my so and so". I have been known to say, "actually, your oddle is a distant relative to Sunny". Just gets my goat every time and it happens so often. And, by the way, there are tons of new puppy oodles in my neighborhood now, each one bragging more than the other for some reason... honestly don't get it.


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## Lily's-Mom

I think the whole "doodle" idea was to make people think anything crossed with a poodle will be hypoallergenic and non-shedding and apparently it worked because everyone believes that and therefore all of these BYB are making a lot of $$$. Somehow a mix or mutt or whatever you chose to call it in the past is now a "designer dog". The whole thing is very sad.


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## liljaker

No doubt; however, my allergies have kicked in again and my allergist told me it is "dogs and cats" and although poodles don't shed and may be less of a problem, I am allergic to all equally. I have started on drops (instead of shots) regimen which is 2 years. I have a history of allergies and got allergy shots as a child; however, my current allergist said it is a fallacy that dogs are hypoallergenic -- even though some may affect you more or less. I have had poodles for 30 years and admit the reaction is less with poodles than with other dogs, though.


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## annadee

To be honest, I haven't even met a doodle of any sort. They aren't popular at all here, I guess.


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## liljaker

*Doodles*



annadee said:


> To be honest, I haven't even met a doodle of any sort. They aren't popular at all here, I guess.


In Evanston, Illinois, which is immediately north of Chicago on Lake Michigan, EVERYONE owns at least a dog and usually a couple and a cat or two.......lots of rescues and, if not rescues, lots of new doodle puppies. Goldendoodle, beagledoodle (yep), and of course labradoodles. And then now I am seeing more minidoodles......you get it. Honestly, they are all cute pups, but all look like Heinz 57 to me...... oh well.


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## Arcticfox

liljaker said:


> No doubt; however, my allergies have kicked in again and my allergist told me it is "dogs and cats" and although poodles don't shed and may be less of a problem, I am allergic to all equally. I have started on drops (instead of shots) regimen which is 2 years. I have a history of allergies and got allergy shots as a child; however, my current allergist said it is a fallacy that dogs are hypoallergenic -- even though some may affect you more or less. I have had poodles for 30 years and admit the reaction is less with poodles than with other dogs, though.


If poodles might affect you less, then they are hypoallergenic. Hypo means less, not none. If they said poodles were non-allergenic or whatever prefix, then that would be a fallacy. Any dog less likely to agravate allegies is hypoallergenic because they cause less than average.


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## liljaker

I am still allergic to them even though I have had them for 30 years and gotten allergy shots for about 11 years when I was younger. Less than other dogs? Perhaps, but since I have only had poodles for 30 years and have allergy symptoms, tough to tell.


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## liljaker

"Hypoallergenic pets" are breeds of pet animals (e.g., some breeds of dogs) that are less likely to trigger allergic reactions in people who are sensitized to the pet species (e.g., in people generally allergic to dogs).

With regard to allergy sufferers, a hypoallergenic pet would presumably enable them to have a pet in their home, whereas most dogs, cats, rabbits, and other fur-bearing animals can cause an allergic reaction. The proteins that cause allergies are found not only in the animals' fur or hair but also in saliva, urine, mucous, and hair roots and in the dander sloughed from the animals' skin. Thus, the widespread idea that "hypoallergenic pets" are those that have less hair or shed less is a myth.

Some dog breeds have been promoted as hypoallergenic because they do not shed their hair, shed very little, or have the same pH as human hair. However, no canine is known to be completely nonallergenic. Yorkshire Terriers, Poodles and Poodle hybrids are commonly mistaken as being hypoallergenic, when in reality they are known to cause different forms of allergies, including bronchitis, as does any breed of dog.

(Taken from some literature at my allergists office).

For some reason, I have a more severe reaction to Sunny than I have had to other poodles --- must be the foreigner in him, eh? (He's Canadian). Lol.


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## annadee

liljaker said:


> In Evanston, Illinois, which is immediately north of Chicago on Lake Michigan, EVERYONE owns at least a dog and usually a couple and a cat or two.......lots of rescues and, if not rescues, lots of new doodle puppies. Goldendoodle, beagledoodle (yep), and of course labradoodles. And then now I am seeing more minidoodles......you get it. Honestly, they are all cute pups, but all look like Heinz 57 to me...... oh well.


Beagledoodles...? That just sounds wrong... but about on the same kind of wrong as this one person I know who paid a pretty penny for a beagle cross pomeranian... 

And yeah, the minidoodles are just wrong. I don't really like it when people breed large dogs to small dogs. It can work I guess, but I feel like there can really be some sort of skeletal issues. I mean, isn't breeding down of dogs a big reason as to why there are so many patella issues in small breeds?


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## BorderKelpie

Since this thread has been resurected again, I thpught I might introduce something new I was just made aware of. It's one thing to cross breed two retrievers, but a retriever with an intensely high drive herding dogs? Really?
Australian Kelpie, Miniature Poodle, Stunning Kelpie X Poodle Puppies, Dog Breed Info Center

Are they supposed to herd ducks or retrieve sheep? How does this even compute? A long haired, double coated dog originally bred to retrieve in the water or herd wild sheep in the Australian Outback. So not a cross for the faint of heart. 
I have Kelpies and Poodles. I adore both breeds and refuse to ever be without at least one of each, but to cross them? OMG! NO. 
Although, I do torment the Kelpie breeder I work with telling her I'm going to breed the cattle bred kelpie I got from her with Bug and make the house payments for a year off that litter. lol


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## tokipoke

It's funny you mention "Australian Kelpie" cause I just saw an episode of the Dog Whisperer where a lady had one. That dog barked 24/7 for 7 years until she got help from Cesar. That mix sounds intense!

I have a poodle and a Havanese - but I would never consider mixing the two! Although that is what some Havanese breeders are doing. They are calling them "Island Minidoodles" (aka Mini Island Doodles = iDoodles - see the marketing gimmick here?) - It's really strange because the Havana Silk people broke off from the Havanese group to breed the Havana Silk - where my understanding is that they want the silky hair as opposed to the wavy hair that can happen in the Havanese breed. So after establishing the silky breed - WHY would they mix them with poodles? They say hybrid vigor but we've all heard the spiel.


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## pgr8dnlvr

Haha! My friend grooms a few of those, but when they come in they are simply tagged "hav-a-poo". Get it?!? . Lol. The owners even affectionately use the term. I think its much cuter! 
Sorry, I have nothing useful to add to this thread though...

Rebecca


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## BorderKelpie

tokipoke, I can believe the barking issues with a kelpie. They HAVE to have a job to do. They were not bred to be couch potatos and most don't even do well in a house without working. They were bred to work the Outback and they are pretty driven and intense. Even my retired kelpies are taught something new to keep them busy. Pelli was 8 when retired due to an injury, we use her for tracking now or she gets depressed or tries to eat my parrot. 
Poorly bred kelpies or kelpie mixes would be dangerous IMO, they don't back down. Mixing with a poorly bred poodle may start another breed issue with BSL. My Kelpies are not viscious, but they don't take to strangers well. A cross with a badly socialized and possible irritable poodle - well, you see my point. I adore my kelpies and trust them, but they have been OB trained and socialized. Most BYBs of doodles don't bother with all of that. Kelpies also have a devestating genetic issue that poodles don't need. There is extensive research to find and remove the causes of it. Since it's a posthumous diagnosis with bizarre neurological symptoms, nothing good can come from this. 

(cerebullar abiotrophy is the condition I worried about)


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## spindledreams

That is almost as scary as this web site  I came across it when looking for "local" spoo breeders. I did not linger long as it simply screams RUN, RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN. 

It is not for the faint of heart but it shows many of the marketing ploys that get folks to part with large sums of money for mutts.


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## Countrylady1071

I just wanted to say, as someone who is very new to poodles but not to dogs.. I feel quite stupid to admit I did not until this past year know that poodles faces were shaved! I was really dumb enough to think that's just how they were. oops.


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## Quossum

Don't feel bad--my dad thought that, too, and I *owned* a poodle while I lived in his house! Not really a strange thing to think, really, when you consider that there are other breeds with furry bodies and smooth faces that DO just grow that way. (Irish Water Spaniel, Afghan Hound, Curly-Coated Retriever)

Poodles: so versatile! 

--Q


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## Bunny

So, I thought of this thread when my husband just came in to tell me a story. He and my son were in the front putting their clubs in the truck to go play golf. Our neighbors across the street came out with their dogs, a doodle and some little dog. The husband was telling my dh about the doodle being THE BEST dog he's ever had.

So my son decides to let Cookie out so she can meet the dood (who was leashed). Now, Cookie doesn't have a mean bone in her body, loves everyone and thinks everyone loves her. She's on her hind legs (she's a mini) to sniff her new friend, and the doodle bites her in the face!

No harm done, but Cookie retreated to my son, but kept wagging her tail and wiggling, wanting to go back to play with the doodle. I know our neighbor was embarrassed and fortunately Cookie wasn't hurt.

I was in the shower while all this was going on, thank goodness. When my dh was talking to me about it, I said that they had probably paid big bucks for that mixed breed (funny I had been reading a lot here about that just recently!). And we got a pure bred (totally by accident!) for almost nothing from the shelter. I'll take my pound puppy any day over that pricey mutt!

Please don't misunderstand me about mixed breeds - I really had wanted a mutt from the shelter - but it's funny that people will pay so much for one from a breeder.


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## Yaddaluvpoodles

*In defense of the doodle....*

Hmmmm, Not that I'm a doodle fan, but I'm not sure that this speaks to poor temperament on the part of the doodle. Rather.. it may speak to very good temperament. It doesn't sound as if Cookie was injured. When dogs intend to inflict harm, they can and do cause damage. It also sounds to me as if Cookie was intruding into the Doodle's space, very much so. Right in his face, that she was reprimanded or corrected doesn't surprise me in the least. 

Just as we humans don't like every human we encounter, nor does every dog like every other dog. Just as humans have individual "space" needs, so do dogs. If the doodle was leashed, he would not have had the option of retreating out of an uncomfortable situation. I suspect that your hubby may have been very pleased and smiling at Cookie, giving her body cues that all was safe and that she what a good girl she was for being so friendly. Who knows what cues the other owner was giving his dog. Who knows what life experiences that other dog has had?

The fact that the doodle didn't hurt Cookie speaks very strongly for him, he merely gave her a reprimand or correction for her poor manners.

I'm sorry that this situation occurred and that these dogs were put into this situation in the first place. For Cookie's sake, please take this as a learning situation, the next dog may not respond as nicely as the doodle did and it wasn't fair to either dog to put them in this situation. 

The safety of both dogs was put into jeopardy in this situation. Cookie could have been killed. The other dog could have been and possible has been labeled an aggressive dog as a result of human mishandling/misunderstanding of a situation. If an attack took place and a human was injured in the process, well that ups the ante a bit. We need to keep ourselves and our dogs safe.

This is coming off more critical than what I intended and I apologize in advance but I am hoping every one reading this will rethink the situation as well as what we can do to keep our own and other dogs safe.

Darla


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## Bunny

I really didn't take the whole thing to be very serious. The couple and their dogs were in our yard. My dh didn't describe the other dog's behavior as aggressive or as playful, and I didn't see it, so I don't really know the context. I do know Cookie did not jump on the (much larger) other dog.

I don't necessarily think it speaks to the other dog's temperament, either. I don't know that dog. My dh just thought it was ironic given that the owner (who actually is a pretty good friend) had _just_ said it was the best dog he'd ever had. 

It's like telling your friend that your kid has learned to ride his bike so well, and then you both look and the kid falls off the bike. Doesn't mean he's a poor bike rider.

Kids and dogs - they'll make liars out of you every time! LOL


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## Yaddaluvpoodles

<VBG> then I come along and make a big deal out of it. Sorry!

I think I have shared (probably more than once here) that my Vic, whom I think had a wonderful temperament, but who was also over the top friendly and didn't always respect human boundries... seemed to have a thing for law enforcement folk.

The only person she ever bit was a sheriff (who, thankfully took full responsibility and apologized to both of us). On another occasion, my enthusiastic people loving poodle.... "pounced" a deputy who had fallen, face up in the snow. Eager to take advantage that she could easily reach his face to lick him. So... who shoulda had their dog on leash (ok, she was leashed when she bit, but unleashed for the pounce). Sometimes things just happen so fast that it's hard to see them coming.

I sure do miss my girl, she kept things lively.. but Gilley is managing to take over that job for her <wicked grin>
Darla


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## Nawal

I met two goldendoodles today at Petsmart and petted both! They were big, styled like a poodle but their skulls were not so poodly looking. Their hair was funny to the touch, it looked curly like a poodle's but the texture was wooly and felt oily or dusty, I do not know how to explain. They were not dirty, in fact they looked freshly groomed, so I think it must be the mix of oily skin of the Golden with the curlyness of the poodle?

They were very friendly, the girl was only 13 months old and she was very much a puppy behavior wise. I think it is a shame people are making money of breeding dogs carelessly but I cannot blame owners for falling in love with adorable puppies, if someone had not done their research and went to a breeder they probably would fall in love with them too!

So i think it boils bown to education, from the breeder to the buyer. I do not support or agree with the practice, but I cannot blame people for ignorantly supporting these breeders, it is the "allegedly" doodle educated people that makes me cringe most.


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## BlackDog

*Designer dogs*

So if I cross a Collie with a Lapso Apso I could get a Callapso and fit it in my carryon luggage?


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## BorderKelpie

You're so bad, BlackDog! (that's funny, though).

There's a pet shop locally to here that specializes in 'teacup' things. They have all sorts of designer pups and ridiculously mixed breeds. The prices are extraodinary, too. Most of the pups are listed for well over $2,000. THere is one there that I think is really cute, he's a maltipoo(?) and I can already tell someone's going to have their hands full with temperment issues.  Resource gurding, avoiding humans and contact, etc. He's pretty and he's on sale the last time I checked. 
Oh yeah, I wanted to look up something, do Boston Terriers come in piedbald markings?

Yeah, if their website and emails, etc are any indication - expensive, random bred dogs are the new high dollar investment.


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## Lou

Kanatadogg (sorry im on the iPhone cant remember your name and it wont let me go back and look) I LOVE your post I agree!!! These people are clueless here is my Lou PURE STANDARD POODLE and this is how i keep her looks  EVERYONE ASKS ME IF SHE IS A GOLDENDOODLE - I SAY: "NO SHE IS THE REAL DEAL, PURE POODLE!!!" with a proud smile and also "educate them" saying: " SHE DOES NOT SHED, DOES NOT DROOL AND POODLES CAN LEARN UP TO 90 COMMANDS!!! SO....  Yay for standard poodles!!! Lou is perfect I love her so much


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## Arcticfox

Lou said:


> SHE DOES NOT SHED, DOES NOT DROOL AND POODLES CAN LEARN UP TO 90 COMMANDS!!! SO....  Yay for standard poodles!!! Lou is perfect I love her so much


Up to? I'd say 90 is a piece of cake. My lazy half assed training has already taught her over 20. Imagine what we could do if we actually tried 

Also, my poodle didn't get the no drooling memo. She usually doesn't but she will literally start frothing at the mouth when she gets excited at the dog park. She doesn't do as thorough a job at covering everyone else with slobber as a great dane would, but she does try!


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## Lou

Well Articfox I said 90 commands because thats what the "service dog" trainers say.... And about the drooling if they are licking or playing with you will have their saliva on arms etc but what I meant was : an example my friends awesome english lab when u say the word "treat" he will immediately have strings of spit all the way down about 7 inches long on the sides of his mouth and they just sit there, they dont fall off its like thick stuff lol YUCK!!!!!!!!!! Poodles dont do "that" (the "hanging drool") LOL 


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## tortoise

Lou said:


> Kanatadogg (sorry im on the iPhone cant remember your name and it wont let me go back and look) I LOVE your post I agree!!! These people are clueless here is my Lou PURE STANDARD POODLE and this is how i keep her looks  EVERYONE ASKS ME IF SHE IS A GOLDENDOODLE - I SAY: "NO SHE IS THE REAL DEAL, PURE POODLE!!!" with a proud smile and also "educate them" saying: " SHE DOES NOT SHED, DOES NOT DROOL AND POODLES CAN LEARN UP TO 90 COMMANDS!!! SO....  Yay for standard poodles!!! Lou is perfect I love her so much
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


The world record for most commands a dogs knows seems to change every year, but is over 1,000. The last one I saw on TV was a poodle. 

My 11 month old puppy is close to 200 commands/cues - a lot of them are non-verbal. Sure he is a service dog, but most of them have no relation to his work. We have barely started object names and that is where the number of commands will explode. He'll learn a cue for each of my pairs of shoes, for clothing, items in my purse, and places to put things for examples.


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## Lou

And when I say to people 90 is just an estimated amount for a poodle that us well trained but nay nit be the best in the world or whatever, I just make a point that poodles are extremely intelligent!!!!!!!! 


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## Lou

Some people that have "harder to train breeds" and are "irresponsible owners" may not even be able to have like 5 commands... U know ? A friend of mine told me that her dog hears the word "no" and couldnt care less LOL 


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## CT Girl

Ah but is that because of your friend or the dog? There is no doubt that some dogs are much harder to train but as a former owner of a beagle (which are notoriously hard to train) he had far more than 5 commands but my Aussie and now my poodle can practically carry on a conversation. My guess is your friend has not made her dog care about her no command even afghan dogs know that one.


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## Lou

CT Girl said:


> Ah but is that because of your friend or the dog? There is no doubt that some dogs are much harder to train but as a former owner of a beagle (which are notoriously hard to train) he had far more than 5 commands but my Aussie and now my poodle can practically carry on a conversation. My guess is your friend has not made her dog care about her no command even afghan dogs know that one.


WELL BOTH LOL.... I was being a little sarcastic, because even my friend made fun of herself as well as the puppy... I wish her luck, and yes some dogs are so smart (and well trained and cared for by their owners) that it does seem that they could carry a conversation, its truly amazing to see.... thanks for your input


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## sweetheartsrodeo

I have to tell you all a funny story... First of all let me say that my cousin Doris is on the Doodle Kisses forum... She has a doodle named Knox, their first doodle passed away a few years ago in a terrible accident, it was heart breaking for her. However, she had Tahoe (the first doodle), and got him from an out of state breeder. According to her sister paid over 3K for the dog plus shipping. He was a doll, very much had the poodle menality. After he passed they got Knox, paying much more for him. I had Remington about a year and thought that they could have a play date... She was not going to have any of it, as my poodle might do something to her doodle. I was at a loss for words... Then my friend explained it... the doodle is the suburban soccer mom's dog... enough said... Although Remi is a pure breed poodle, he could never be as "cool" as this doodle mut. ha ha.... live and learn.


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## bellalisa

I wish I could find that thread in the lab forum. It keeps riverting me back to the main forum page. Does anyone know what forum is it in and what page it is on and maybe the thread title?


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## outwest

Okay, so I thought I had heard it all. 

I took my puppy to a puppy class last Saturday. The first class we all introduced our dogs, what breed they were and how old they were. There was a red puppy with long hair. Her owner introduced her proudly as an, "Australian Golden Doodle". I bit my tongue- hard- and kindly asked what the Australian meant (I honestly didn't know). Did she have Australian shephard in her, too? She said, "Oh, no. She is from Australian golden doodles brought to the US. They have perfected the breed now."
Uh, yah. One look at that wonky conformation tells me they are far from perfected, but I smiled nicely, "oohh..." It turns out she flew her puppy from the midwest and has had all kinds of behavioral issues having to do with extreme shyness, fear of other dogs with anxiety urination. Her puppy is also 5 months old and the owner asked me how Jazz ears were because her puppy had had two ear infections. I told her he hadn't had any ear issues. She seemed surprised. 

I did what I always do, let my poodles speak for themselves. More than once she commented how beautiful Jazz was and how pretty he pranced. Jazz went right up to her for loving with his tail going. She commented how bold and sweet he was. She was nice and I helped her give treats to her puppy to overcome fear. 

I was kind, really I was, but I admit to feeling an evil sort of satisfaction in class when I could see her eyeballing Jazz closely.  he he he. I am evil. I feel a little guilty, but honestly I bet she paid as much or more for her Australian Golden Doodle as I did for my all poodle. 

Am I bad....


----------



## Bunny

outwest, I think you took the high road. What good does making everyone uncomfortable do?

Maybe her troubles with this "exotic" breed will start a trend toward making them unpopular because of all the "issues" they have.

I'm pretty sure you can charge extra here in the states for anything with "Australian" in front of it. LOL


----------



## flyingpoodle

Outwest, I have heard of the Australian labradoodle which is its own thing, with cocker spaniels and such thrown in, with multiple generation breeding and beaucoup bucks. But I am going to have to look up the Aussie goldendoodle. 

Oh, you can feel a little guilty if it makes you feel better 

There was a goldendoodle in my puppy class, and I honestly don't know why the owners were there. They disregarded most all of the trainers advice and direction. And then were unhappy when their own way of doing things still didn't work. :ahhhhh:

I think maybe if you're the type to buy the line about the perfect dog... Of course, this is coming from someone who doesn't watch tv cause ads drive me nuts, and is less likely to buy something if there is a sales pitch involved...


----------



## liljaker

You might find this interesting.

Australian Labradoodle Association

I also have met people with the Australian labradoodle (literally purchased from Australia and flown here) - met a guy in Home Depot and had a brown huge labradoodle in the car. Hazel eyes, and sitting in the SUV. He told me his daughter "bought" it -- with his credit card of course -- and she went back to school so now he was "his" --- He said he spent $5,000 -- which included the transport from Australia, too.


----------



## Specman

That site is incredible! Especially the breed standard.


----------



## Lou

outwest said:


> Okay, so I thought I had heard it all. (...)
> I did what I always do, let my poodles speak for themselves. (...)


Im picturing it all in my mind, I wish i could have been a little fly to watch what happened...LOL Post a picture of jazz with this post! So we can all be proud with you! (we already are anyway!!!)


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## Lou

liljaker said:


> You might find this interesting.
> 
> Australian Labradoodle Association
> 
> I also have met people with the Australian labradoodle (literally purchased from Australia and flown here) - met a guy in Home Depot and had a brown huge labradoodle in the car. Hazel eyes, and sitting in the SUV. He told me his daughter "bought" it -- with his credit card of course -- and she went back to school so now he was "his" --- He said he spent $5,000 -- which included the transport from Australia, too.



this is stoopid! (I went to the website) they sound silly like they made it up, took it out of ya know where! LOL
Sorry if someone gets offended, It's just my thoughts on it , if anyone thinks I'M stoopid or silly and don't know what I'm talking about and took it out of my ya know what - Im cool with that!! haha


----------



## Specman

I met my first Australian labradoodle at the dog park over the weekend. She was about the same size as Max who is a mini. She looked and acted like a doodle puppy but the owner said that she was 3 years old. She was a nice dog but the Owner considered her a very special breed. They sounded like she was quite expensive. I could not see that she really had anything to offer that Max did not have.


----------



## LegalEagle

*Maybe labradoodle purchasers are just ignorant*

I met a very sweet dog today on my way to class. He was kind of blond, he was wiggly and curious and very, very friendly. I asked the woman with him what breed of dog he was, because he looked kind of like a labradoodle, but also kind of like a small, shaggy standard (almost like Lou, here on the forum).

Well, it turned out he was a Wheaten Terrier. But he had the look of a labradoodle and, unlike most labradoodles, Wheatens are actually non-shedding. Maybe people who buy labradoodles just haven't done enough research to know that there are actually several breeds of non-shedding dogs, even if they (inexplicably) don't want a Poodle. Wheatens, Portuguese Water Dogs, and Schnauzers, among others, all have breed standards, breed true, actually do have non-shed coats and cost less than most doodles.

BTW, here's a Wheaten Terrier. See how doodly it looks?


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## Leooonie

saw this on the ALA
"To achieve a hypoallergenic dog
they needed to breed their Labradors to a dog that was already non-shedding, hence the Standard Poodle. "
so... uhm. they NEEDED to? why not train a poodle? this is missing so much oout of the story!

"The two variations are wavy fleece and curly fleece.Then there is the Wool coat. This has a definite dense wool feel, and is mildly to very curly."
so basically a poodle coat. DUMB. :/

"They should display an intuition about their family members or handler’s current emotional state or needs. This ability to “know” is what has made the Australian Labradoodle an excellent dog for individuals with special needs."
this was in the breed standard... im sorry but lots of dogs dont have that type of personality. sometimes its also a human applies this idea to their dogs reactions. loads of BS.


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## Fluffyspoos

Preaching to the choir! I wish we could educate the public!

I think I'm learning that a lot of labradoodle owners like that "wild mutt running through the forest" look. I know a lot of groomers have troubles pleasing a doodle owner because we try too hard.

A friend of mine finally got it, this lady has won a few national grooming competitions and made this dog look like gold and mom was never happy, this is how she pleased her:

Bathe the dog and only dry it about 80%, then start clipping it while it's still damp, this will give an uneven cut and make sure the coat curls. Leave the stickie outies, make the ears a bit uneven, and make the face good and choppy.

Mom LOVED it.

Kukoo kukoo!


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## Lou

LegalEagle said:


> I met a very sweet dog today on my way to class. He was kind of blond, he was wiggly and curious and very, very friendly. I asked the woman with him what breed of dog he was, because he looked kind of like a labradoodle, but also kind of like a small, shaggy standard (almost like Lou, here on the forum).
> 
> Well, it turned out he was a Wheaten Terrier. But he had the look of a labradoodle and, unlike most labradoodles, Wheatens are actually non-shedding. Maybe people who buy labradoodles just haven't done enough research to know that there are actually several breeds of non-shedding dogs, even if they (inexplicably) don't want a Poodle. Wheatens, Portuguese Water Dogs, and Schnauzers, among others, all have breed standards, breed true, actually do have non-shed coats and cost less than most doodles.
> 
> BTW, here's a Wheaten Terrier. See how doodly it looks?


Great point!! Thanks for posting this.
Yes, I keep my Lou with long hair all over (trimed shorter on face to look more girly) and it actually makes a good point, everywhere we go, most people ask if she is a goldendoodle and I proudly say she is 100% Standard Poodle, and tell them she is the perfect dog and you can make poodles look however you want... people go "wow....." and everyone that lay eyes on her smiles.

I mean it! I want to raise awareness that spoos are the best dogs ever and they can have any hair cut ya want! :-D

This picture was taken today before we went to class... and people were asking etc...








[/url] Lou eating her bone by the window -sm by Lou Standard Poodle, on Flickr[/IMG]


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## papoodles

*Some people...*

I had an unsettling experience while my husband and I were out at the local farm today, tagging our Christmas tree. We took Pippa along , and while she was running and playing( on the leash) I noticed a pick-up truck come near. I was a bit worried, not knowing if dogs were allowed, esp. when the man stopped his truck and came out, waving to us.
This was the conversation that followed:
He: “ Is this your dog?” 
Me: “Yes.”
He: “Is she spayed?”
Me: “No, she’s still a puppy.”
He: “Great! I have a lab, and I just saw a labradoodle here this morning, and the owner was telling me how wonderful they are, and that they don’t shed- so I want to breed some”.
Me: “ If you want a non shedding dog- get a POODLE. I don’t breed mutts”


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## Angl

I just love Lou's cut. I love the scruffy look. Maybe I should let Max grow out. He's a sable and the pretty dark hair shows up when he grows out. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## Lou

Thank you!!! She is getting a haircut tomorrow!!! Her hair way too long, cant see eyes no more LOL I cant wait!! Will post pictures  Thanks again


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## WhosMyFluffyPuppy

I am somewhat relieved to find this thread and see people here have some similar experiences. I'm ok with people wanting doodles, but sometimes peoples' insensitivity and vocal prejudices makes me want to smack them. When Darku goes paddling with us on the SUPs, we get stopped by lots of other boaters. The conversation always ends up like this:

Them: Is that Obama's dog?
Us: No, this is not Obama's dog. He's a poodle.
Them: He's real cute! Is he a labradoodle?
Us: No he's a standard poodle.
Them: A what?
Us: STANDARD POO... 
Them: OH I HATE POODLES.

:at-wits-end:

And what I'd like to say to them is #*&^ *** @#$*&^$! and then smack them upside the head. They just told me my dog is cute, but their prejudice against poodles automatically makes him ugly the second they find out he's not a doodle? My beef is not with the doodles, but THOSE people. They hate my dog indiscriminately even though they WANT the poodle qualities. I'd have to imagine the Labrador and Golden Retriever people feel similarly and have that frustrated feeling of "You want my dog's qualities, but my dog's not good enough for you?"


----------



## Lou

Cant wait to post before and after pictures of Lou, we are in the car now, 75 miles to go... :-D


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## Lea

I was out walking my Smurphy Murphy not so long ago when I came upon 2 golden doodles. They were super cute and sweet. The owner asked if Murphy was a standard poodle and I said yes. He said "oh, mine are only half poodle. Your dog is beautiful". (I'm pretty sure he was jealous) lol jk. Or not  

Lol as cute as his dogs are I can just imagine the fur flying in his house! I love my spoo!


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## Lou

Before and after(s) LOL 

SHE IS DARKENING , I love her color being the same all over her body , very uniform!!!! I love her so much <3


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## kukukachoo

Lou said:


> Cant wait to post before and after pictures of Lou, we are in the car now, 75 miles to go... :-D
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


I'm excited too! :airplane::airplane::airplane::airplane: hurry!


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## kukukachoo

kukukachoo said:


> I'm excited too! :airplane::airplane::airplane::airplane: hurry!


Woops somehow I missed that you already posted! 

LOU LOOKS GORGEOUS!

That last photo is soooooo adorable!


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## SusanG

The result is always a mutt, regardless of whatever they charge for it. Only my personal opinion, but it makes no sense to mix pedigree dogs and spoil years of careful breeding that has been done to preserve the individual characteristics of each breed. Why would anyone want to spoil the perfect poodle breed and dilute it with anything and make it less a poodle. (of course I'm biased) Goldens are beautiful, why change them either? 
What really makes me really sad is to see the number of "rescue dogs" in shelters that are part pit bull. Its downright cruel. It seems almost half of those for adoption are mixed pit bull or rottweiler.


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## pgr8dnlvr

Lou looks awesome post groom! Good choice in clips for her!

Rebecca


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## pgr8dnlvr

And here is where I'd like to play a little "devils advocate". One thing that seems to be more and more clear as I age, is that close mindedness or "absolute" oppinion benefits almost noone and moves us nowhere.

Who is to decide that only our ancestors had the forethought and ability to "create" a new breed of dog? I think the majority of breeds come from some dilution and mixing with other breeds way back in the family tree. If it was done way back when and considered acceptable, what is so dastardly evil about doing the same mixing in todays times?

It's just plain common knowledge. Some of the "founding breeds" used to create many of the "purebreds" we all know and love, are extinct or almost there as in the tweed water spaniel in the creation of goldens. So somewhere along the line society decided some breeds weren't needed. What if WE decided now that we want a breed something similar to one that existed eons ago?

It we go so far as to shut people down and say - "The result is always a mutt, regardless of whatever they charge for it". Maybe, just maybe we should look at the reasons people are trying to create a new breed, what niche they'd like to fill, how they are going about doing it. I have NO doubt in my mind it is possible to breed "mutts" in a responsible manner. Genetic testing is not limited to purebred dogs, if you pay, there is no reason you cant have hip evaluations done on mixed breed dogs, or any other test for that matter. All I'm saying is, I hope some of you will keep a clear mind and understand that things aren't always as simple as black or white, right or wrong.

Rebecca


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## BorderKelpie

pgr8dnlvr said:


> And here is where I'd like to play a little "devils advocate". One thing that seems to be more and more clear as I age, is that close mindedness or "absolute" oppinion benefits almost noone and moves us nowhere.
> 
> Who is to decide that only our ancestors had the forethought and ability to "create" a new breed of dog? I think the majority of breeds come from some dilution and mixing with other breeds way back in the family tree. If it was done way back when and considered acceptable, what is so dastardly evil about doing the same mixing in todays times?
> 
> It's just plain common knowledge. Some of the "founding breeds" used to create many of the "purebreds" we all know and love, are extinct or almost there as in the tweed water spaniel in the creation of goldens. So somewhere along the line society decided some breeds weren't needed. What if WE decided now that we want a breed something similar to one that existed eons ago?
> 
> It we go so far as to shut people down and say - "The result is always a mutt, regardless of whatever they charge for it". Maybe, just maybe we should look at the reasons people are trying to create a new breed, what niche they'd like to fill, how they are going about doing it. I have NO doubt in my mind it is possible to breed "mutts" in a responsible manner. Genetic testing is not limited to purebred dogs, if you pay, there is no reason you cant have hip evaluations done on mixed breed dogs, or any other test for that matter. All I'm saying is, I hope some of you will keep a clear mind and understand that things aren't always as simple as black or white, right or wrong.
> 
> Rebecca


I understand your point and I agree for the most part. The problem that I see with the doodles is they are not being bred for a specific purpose beside profit. (except for the cases of the Australian Labradoodle that they were trying to make as seeing eye dogs, I believe it was. They are actually trying to produce dogs that breed true and to a standard - it will take quite a while yet). Anyway. Since the goal of the average doodle 'breeder' is an expensive, fancy, 'non-shedding' dog that they can say just about anything they wish to sell, I don't think that is right. Especially with the large number of great companion dogs dying daily in shelters and in the streets. 

My way of thinking is, if you want a nice sized, non-shedding dog - get a poodle. If a Spoo isn't quite hefty enough, look into getting a PWD. Why breed a mutt that will shed copious amounts of fluff while having no clue as to adult looks, size and temperament since it is a mutt. 

(FWIW, I have NO issues with mutts, I even own a crossbred herding dog - bred on purpose for herding/bitesports - I did not buy him, but adore him anyway. THere are occasionally reasons for crossbreeding, just not doodles. Working dogs maybe - mixed breed pets can be found free or low cost just about anywhere.) 

Oops, preaching to the choir again, aren't I?


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## Angl

Why would anyone need a labradoodle after seeing these gorgous pics of Lou?

To change the subject a little, here is an article in our local paper about a somewhat famous labradoodle. 

ODU honors lion-y Labradoodle who fooled 911 callers | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com


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## Lou

Aaaww! Thanks guys... I want her to be an ambassador for the poodle breed, have any haircut ya want!

And about doodles...i dont know ..but cant mixing hair with fur a nightmare result?
And poodles are amazing, goldens are great etc... Why mix?


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## Lou

I cant get over how well Ellyisme groomed her! (Hibbert's mom from here: poodleforum!) She did EXACTLY what I had in mind


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## Lou

pgr8dnlvr said:


> Lou looks awesome post groom! Good choice in clips for her!
> 
> Rebecca


As I said on my post above... I had all kinds of details about this on how I wanted it done, the face, the tail the top of the head , the ears ... and she nailed it ! 

Im glad you like it too


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## MollyMuiMa

Love Lou's 'DO' Ellyisme did a wonderful job! How's Lou doing since she got home?


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## Lou

MollyMuiMa said:


> Love Lou's 'DO' Ellyisme did a wonderful job! How's Lou doing since she got home?


Thanks!!! Lou has been great! Thanks for asking...  She has been eating more (maybe other dogs "liked" her food, and she is now "appreciating" it more...LOL) She eats better than I do! haha She has also been cuddling more I think she missed us... hehehehehe
Her behavior/demeanor is calmer and she has been doing great with the commands! Im happy! Oh, one thing... Ive been gone a lot, for longer periods of time during the day, and I left her with hubby, she is mad at me when I get home... LOL Like acting crazy, she doesnt know if she wants to hug or "luv-bite" me! hahahhahaha

Hope all is great with you and yours!


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## WhosMyFluffyPuppy

Lou said:


> I cant get over how well Ellyisme groomed her! (Hibbert's mom from here: poodleforum!) She did EXACTLY what I had in mind


Lou looks great!! I am totally going to "borrow" your pic to show my groomer. We've been trying to get Darku to a cut very similar to this!


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## Lou

WhosMyFuffyPuppy said:


> Lou looks great!! I am totally going to "borrow" your pic to show my groomer. We've been trying to get Darku to a cut very similar to this!


Aw cool! The feet are rounded like a teddy bear, ots cute too! Im glad you liked it 
Go ahead and "steal" it hahaha and share pictures


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## liljaker

Absolutely.


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## cavon

Lou must be soooo much more comfortable and if you keep on top of brushing her, you will be able to maintain the cut for a good while.


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## Lou

cavon said:


> Lou must be soooo much more comfortable and if you keep on top of brushing her, you will be able to maintain the cut for a good while.


Thanks..
Yes I like brushing her, when its this short, how often should I brush? I normally brush every other day, or every 3 days...


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## cavon

I brush Finnegan every other day, maximum every third day. I use a slicker and then a wide tooth comb on him.


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## cliffdweller

*Once Upon a Time ...*

... they _all_ were designed; this is not the end of time, nor the end of new variations of canids produced through crossbreeding (despite the breed clubs). The monetary motive is not exclusive to those who crossbreed.

Modern dog breeds genetically disconnected from ancient ancestors


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## poodle mama4

Mercury's Mom said:


> I have to comment on the poodle, fuzzy face thing. I just came across one of those yahoo question forum things where someone actually asked if they can prevent their new poodle puppy's hair from falling out on it's face and feet. Someone actually had to explain that the hair doesn't fall out and that it is a haircut, not something that just HAPPENS to poodles. Boy do I feel for that person's poor poodle.
> 
> Back to the thread, I recently talked to a lab owner at the dogpark here about the doodles and he can't understand why someone would want to mix a lab with a sissy dog like a poodle. Of course, I don't agree with the sissy part.


Your post made me laugh so hard! The hair falls out? haha!


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## ericwd9

4 y/o thread?


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## lily cd re

ericwd9 said:


> 4 y/o thread?



A perennial topic I think Eric. But seriously just recently Lily and I visited our club's training director at her home. She has goldens and she hates the doodle concept as much as we do.


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## poodle mama4

ericwd9 said:


> 4 y/o thread?


I was not active on this site 4 years ago. I saw the comment and responded. Is it an issue?


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## lily cd re

poodle mama4 said:


> I was not active on this site 4 years ago. I saw the comment and responded. Is it an issue?


No, not at all, just not super common.


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## HeritageHills

Before I got my Standards we had a Goldendoodle named Mia. I just shaved her like a Poodle, lol.


----------



## NOLA Standards

The Golden Retriever Club of America and the Labrador Retriever Club of America both have very strong statements regarding "Doodling".

Quick answer, YES!, they are as against Doodling as we are. 
Their reply is...wait for it...Golden!

The link is here: 

https://www.grca.org/find-a-golden/more-topics-before-you-buy/goldendoodles/


and I've copied it as well for your education and reading enjoyment.


"December 2006

I am shocked and insulted by your information on the Golden Retriever Club of America web site concerning Golden Doodles. We breed these dogs with every caution and 2 years of research and have had wonderful results.
In my opinion your bias and negative comments are uncalled for, perhaps you should purchase one and find out for yourself before you make such bold statements.
Nancy ________________

GRCA’s Response:

The Golden Retriever Club of America stands behind the information on our Website. We are dedicated to the preservation of the Golden Retriever breed as defined by our standard, which is published on our Website.

You state that you have two years of research behind your breeding program. We have over 140 years of experience in our breed and can trace our entire breeding program back to the mating of two dogs in the 1860’s with very careful notes and ledgers maintained on every single breeding. The history of the Golden Retriever is carefully preserved and documented.

You do not delineate what you mean by research. What we do in the way of research is fund many bona-fide grants designed to help identify and eliminate canine hereditary disease — diseases that are, by the way, passed on to your Golden-doodles. Are you aware of these diseases?

In addition we request that all our members do the basic genetic testing for hips, eyes, hearts and elbows. We request that additional information be given to those who purchase Golden Retrievers about the overall health and longevity of the breed. We expect every breeder to support genetic research not only in doing the four major clearances but also by contributing to a DNA databank available to researchers. The Golden Retriever Club of America is responsible for collecting DNA on over 1000 of our current dogs along with a detailed health profile. There is no such pool of available information on cross bred animals.

You mention wonderful results. That is a rather broad statement. Golden Retrievers excel in multiple venues — field, obedience, conformation, agility, companionship, service, detection, comfort and search and rescue. We have a long history of stable temperaments, trainability and bidability carefully preserved and monitored by conscientious breeders. These breeders have the full resources of our club, our foundation and our membership at their disposal.

The Golden Retriever Club of America also works with the Morris Animal Foundation and The Canine Health Foundation in providing support and samples for vital research in genetics and health. We have never seen a grant application for the health of the Golden-doodle. We have never seen a donation by any Doodle organization to the betterment of canine health, only undocumented claims that their dogs have no health problems. We have never seen anyone breeding doodles of any kind talk about the basic genetic testing for both the Golden and the Poodle. Instead we only hear of these dogs showing up in rescue because the promises of lack of shedding and allergies and stable temperament remain unfulfilled.

The Golden Retriever Club of America also has an extensive rescue network and is among the first to arrive on the scene during natural disasters to provide shelter and assistance to the Golden. Where were the Doodle people during Hurricane Katrina?

We do not condone actions such as the deliberate production of litters from two different AKC recognized breeds of dogs, which does not maintain the separate purpose and integrity of each breed. We speak for the Golden Retriever. We expect our breeders to demonstrate honesty, integrity, and fairness in dealing with other owners, breeders, purchasers of puppies and the general public. We feel that the deliberate production of “Golden Doodles” profoundly violates that trust. The Golden Retriever, as a purebred dog, comes from generations and generations of breeding dogs with a common gene pool and a characteristic appearance, temperament and function. “Goldendoodles” are nothing more than mixed breed dogs.

If you are offended by our website, imagine how we feel about the proliferation of boutique dogs taking advantage of the public and misusing the careful and selectively bred Golden Retriever.

The Board of Directors of the Golden Retriever Club of America"

BAM!

Tabatha
NOLA Standards

PS PCA also has Anne Rogers Clark's paper on Doodles that is handed out at Meet the Breeds. I always hope that Education will one day win and many people are unaware that if they want to doodle, doodles fill our shelters. Save a Life if you must doodle.


----------



## lily cd re

I know a lot of GR people and can say without doubt that the reaction of their "rank and file" is the same as the GR board.


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## barbiespoodle

Sigh, I'm not going to knock cross breeds because I make it a habit to always have a county pound dog in my life and several of them were mix breeds. Right now I have Eustace, a airedale/hell hound cross. 

But as much as I may have loved my cross breed, I don't think they should have ever been born and made sure they never reproduce even more cross breeds. My chow/golden cross so beautiful I had people ask me to breed her because they wanted one of her pups, I had her spay at 5 months of age, she never saw her first season. 

Seeing as that I see so many county pound mix breeds waiting for a home before their time runs out (I refuse to have more than 2, maybe 3 dogs at a time since that is all I have time and money to give proper attention to, so can't take them all home), I have a hard time with people who intentionally make cross breeds. 

And giving them fancy names and high price tags makes them status symbols people want them even more, no use telling them that their status symbol they paid more for than a properly bred pure breed is still just a mutt. And you will be amazed at how many of these designer breeds end up at the pound. 

Oh, sigh again, I have met many wonderful doodles, the best are beloved, neutered, shaved down, family pets.


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## Miz34

Just came across this one Facebook... 

Trademarked. Ughhhh. 4500?!?!? Look at the poodle stud with blue eyes... 


http://www.comfortretrievers.com/litter-information/golden-retriever-litters

There’s a quote on the homepage of them registering with dog breed clubs. I’d like to know which that is. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Miz34

Miz34 said:


> Just came across this one Facebook...
> 
> Trademarked. Ughhhh. 4500?!?!? Look at the poodle stud with blue eyes...
> 
> 
> http://www.comfortretrievers.com/litter-information/golden-retriever-litters
> 
> There’s a quote on the homepage of them registering with dog breed clubs. I’d like to know which that is.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




THE WAIT LIST PAGE HOLY COW!!! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Skylar

That whole website is scary - but the most frightening thing was that poor blue eyed poodle - it looked pathetic - so sad.


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## twyla

Skylar said:


> That whole website is scary - but the most frightening thing was that poor blue eyed poodle - it looked pathetic - so sad.


The same Blue eyed poodle I've see advertised for $12K yikes


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## lily cd re

Forget about "Blue's" blue eyes, what about the fact they say he is merle?!?!?!? If he is merle then there is no way he is a poodle since merle is not a gene found in poodles. He is short on leg and looks very barrel chested in that sad picture, so not a poodle, not really anyway...

ETA, I feel like I am rubbernecking a multicar crash on the highway, don't want to look, but hard to look away. I hadn't seen the waitlist page before I posted my original reply. That is some list, but here is the other thing, why do these types always have some super expensive but very important training that only they can provide (minimum 3 extra weeks you pay for before you get your puppy who will have been taught to heel perfectly, I have been teaching Javelin to heel for two years and it is finally nearly perfect, no puppy in the world knows how to heel, sorry).


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## Mfmst

amerique2 said:


> I have a friend who is very involved in showing Goldens in Conformation/Obedience/Rally and obtaining hunting titles as well. She is also a breeder and very much opposes the crossbreeding of goldens and poodles. Here is what the GRCA has to say; taken from their website.
> 
> "The Golden Retriever Club of America is dedicated to the health and welfare of the Golden Retriever breed while conserving the original breed function - that of a "working retriever." A purebred dog offers to his owner the likelihood that he will be a specific size, shape, color and temperament.
> 
> The predictability of a breed comes from selection for traits that are desirable and away from traits that are undesirable. When a breed standard or type is set, the animals within that breed have less heterozygosity than do animals in a random population. The Goldendoodle is nothing more than an expensive mongrel. Because the genetic makeup is diverse from the Poodle genes and the Golden Retriever genes, the resultant first generation (F1) offspring is a complete genetic gamble. The dog may be any size, color, coat texture and temperament. Indeed Goldendoodles do shed. Their coat may be wiry or silky and may mat. Body shape varies with parentage but tends to be lanky and narrow. Behavior varies with the dog and within a litter with some puppies poodle-like in attitude and others somewhat like the Golden Retriever.
> 
> The Golden Retriever Club of America is opposed to cross-breeding of dogs and is particularly opposed to the deliberate crossing of Golden Retrievers with any other breed. These crossbreds are a deliberate attempt to mislead the public with the idea that there is an advantage to these designer dogs. The crossbred dogs are prone to all of the genetic disease of both breeds and offer none of the advantages that owning a purebred dog has to offer."


Good for the Golden Retriever Club for calling an expensive mongrel, an expensive mongrel! As much as I am against intentional cross breeding, I would rather see them in our shelters than the pit bull crosses that currently overwhelm capacity. You will not find any breed club that endorses a designer breed with half of their genes.


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## Mufar42

Doodles They are still very popular here. I’ve posted in another thread awhile back how my friend has a 4 year old golden doodle with lymphoma, The dog was actually a really good dog personality wise with her 5 young children. After months of chemo and $15,000. He went to sleepI
during his natural sleep. Of course the children are devastated, While going to the u I ersity for treatments she learned they treated 29 other dogs from this breeder, some may have been full goldens. She had to have another doodle they just adore them so she found another breeder. She brought her pup home last week. This breeder did crate train him and already he goes to the door to go out to potty. So far he is good and gentle with the kids who are 11, 10, 7, 5, and 9 months. I hope they will be as happy with this one n that his personality is as good as the last. The prices for these mixes are outrageous. I do think this breeder at least does health testing. I,ll stick to my poodles. What I find interesting is they mix n remix and this pup is 70% poodle. I still wonder why not just have 100% poodle.


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## Johanna

sulamk said:


> Sorry but do have to defend the labs, my Lab hardly sheds at all maybe cos we live in a hot climate! Don't like people cross breeding though and not defending the doodle breeders!


Wish our Lab did not shed - there's hair all over the house! I tried to discourage J from getting a lab, but she fell in love with this rescue online, so we drove down to Las Cruces (250 miles!) to get her. She is very sweet, but I sure wish J had fallen in love with a poodle instead! I now have a rule that any future dogs be either a poodle or a whippet.


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## Johanna

spindledreams said:


> That is almost as scary as this web site  I came across it when looking for "local" spoo breeders. I did not linger long as it simply screams RUN, RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN.
> 
> It is not for the faint of heart but it shows many of the marketing ploys that get folks to part with large sums of money for mutts.


That site is so, so WRONG! Good grief! It just makes my blood boil. They have a page called "what is a breeder" - I wanted to email them that a breeder carefully researches pedigrees and only breeds from lines that have been thoroughly health tested and certified. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.


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## Dechi

I watched a tv show last night about dogs with jobs. This young woman with lots of health problems had a service dog that was truly amazing. At first you thought he was a poodle, because he really had all the physical traits. But then when you looked at the tail, it couldn’t be. In fact it was a cross between a labrador and a poodle.

This dog had the perfect temperament and the body, hair and demeanor of a poodle (except for the tail). Even the head was typically poodle. I had never seen a doodle look like a true poodle before. I guess he is the odd exception to the rule. He probably has inherited most of the important poodle gene in his genetic pool !


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## Mufar42

Johanna said:


> Wish our Lab did not shed - there's hair all over the house! I tried to discourage J from getting a lab, but she fell in love with this rescue online, so we drove down to Las Cruces (250 miles!) to get her. She is very sweet, but I sure wish J had fallen in love with a poodle instead! I now have a rule that any future dogs be either a poodle or a whippet.


Johanna, My friend from long ago was big time into labs, did some training of pups for a organization for the blind plus had her own lbs. Big time shedders. I had one too, she was a great dog especially when my children were little, she would follow them everywhere (we were on acreage at time). Their only downfall is the shedding.


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## rkj__

Dechi said:


> I watched a tv show last night about dogs with jobs. This young woman with lots of health problems had a service dog that was truly amazing. At first you thought he was a poodle, because he really had all the physical traits. But then when you looked at the tail, it couldn’t be. In fact it was a cross between a labrador and a poodle.
> 
> This dog had the perfect temperament and the body, hair and demeanor of a poodle (except for the tail). Even the head was typically poodle. I had never seen a doodle look like a true poodle before. I guess he is the odd exception to the rule. He probably has inherited most of the important poodle gene in his genetic pool !


Some doodles do end up being mostly poodle, because they breed the doodle with a poodle again, sometime repeating the process until there is very little of the non-poodle breed left.

Most doodles also tend to get groomed / cut differently that most Poodles. If you give them a more common Poodle cut (shaved face), they can very much look like Poodles sometimes.


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## Fenris-wolf

I don't like doodles, but there's this 10 year old goldendoodle that stays in this office with his owners during working hours and he is very sweet and I stop there just to say hi and give him treats. 

The man who created the labradoodle did it because supposedly after trying to train 40 standard poodles they (sounds like bogus) didn't work out. I think it's been a few years, but now he regrets creating them. A lot of them don't have stable temperaments. 

The doodle mixes have gotten out of control too! ??


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## bluegirl1997

Wow this is an old thread! I've met some huge, hyper doodles that would be a real challenge, but lately I've met some super cute, calm sweet little doodles. 
They're not my dog of choice but some seem nice

Sent from my VOG-L04 using Tapatalk


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## Fenris-wolf

bluegirl1997 said:


> Wow this is an old thread! I've met some huge, hyper doodles that would be a real challenge, but lately I've met some super cute, calm sweet little doodles.
> They're not my dog of choice but some seem nice
> 
> Sent from my VOG-L04 using Tapatalk


I've never met any little doodles, but I know people have been breeding smaller doodles. That's awesome? Were they puppies or small adult doodles?


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## Mufar42

bluegirl1997 said:


> Wow this is an old thread! I've met some huge, hyper doodles that would be a real challenge, but lately I've met some super cute, calm sweet little doodles.
> They're not my dog of choice but some seem nice
> 
> Sent from my VOG-L04 using Tapatalk


While I would not support doodle breeding by purchasing one for the prices they charge. I have met several that have outstanding personalities.


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## bluegirl1997

Fenris-wolf said:


> I've never met any little doodles, but I know people have been breeding smaller doodles. That's awesome Were they puppies or small adult doodles?


They were adults, but with straight hair. Aussie doodles maybe? Anyway, they were cute and calm.

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## Countryboy

bluegirl1997 said:


> They were adults, but with straight hair.


Lawd preserve us from straight haired Oodles!

I petted an Golden Doodle one time at the park. Straight, somewhat oily hair. It was an odd feeling... really off-putting.


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## Fenris-wolf

bluegirl1997 said:


> They were adults, but with straight hair. Aussie doodles maybe? Anyway, they were cute and calm.
> 
> Sent from my VOG-L04 using Tapatalk





Countryboy said:


> Lawd preserve us from straight haired Oodles!
> 
> I petted an Golden Doodle one time at the park. Straight, somewhat oily hair. It was an odd feeling... really off-putting.


??


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## Raindrops

Visiting my mother for Christmas and we were walking dogs at a local park. There were a bunch of doodles there. It was a good opportunity to show my mother how to pick out the signs of hip dysplasia in dogs. It makes me so sad to see dysplastic doodles that can't really even run, or doodles with such poorly developed rears that they must have been neutered at 8 weeks. I have occasionally seen lab puppies that were clearly dysplastic, but doodles take the cake on it. Makes me so sad. Misha got many compliments as usual. I don't think people are used to seeing well bred dogs with perfect gait even though it's a very well off area. They're always shocked at how agile and fast he is.


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