# Help with very shy puppy outside of home



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

It sounds to me like she was not adequately exposed to new people and places when she was in the critical window for learning to accept and understand the "big" world. How old is she now and how old was she when she first was taken places other than the vet? Also what do you mean by not being allowed to take her to classes? Do you mean you can't take her to school with you? Unless a dog was a service dog working for a student in a specific way I wouldn't want dogs in my classes (I am a college professor).


----------



## blueroan (Dec 28, 2015)

She is 8mths now. I meant I wanted to take her to puppy classes etc, but was not allowed by those at home. As it isn't *my* dog but the family dog, I had to abide by their rules. 

It took me a long time to even get her into the routine of a walk every day, unless it's raining or I'm super busy. I did find out I'm the only one she'll walk with, though! My mom tried and she refused to go with her. I thought that was kind of funny, but since then we seem to have taken a few steps back.

I intro'd her to a a big friendly man yesterday and his little fox terrier. She had no trouble with the terrier but was afraid of the kid holding the terrier. I picked her up so the man could pet her and she would try to bite him. I would SH! really sharp and after a few more tries, she let him pet her. The guy didn't care and knew to take it slow and kindly. It was good. I didn't let the kid try because I really didn't want Honey to try and bite the kid. She wasn't really going at it, just saying "I'm afraid of you, please go away, if you don't I will try to bite you but I don't want to do that either."

But she is a completely different dog inside with strangers.


----------



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Looking left and righ, left and right again and again is a sign of high anxiety. Very hard to work with an anxious dog.

If she takes treats, you might want to associate the outside with getting treats. If not, good luck, I haven't found a way with mine.

He is a high anxiety dog, he has GAD. He is the opposite of your dog : scared to death of everything inside, including people, but not outside, excluding people. He is always scare of people and will not go to them, ever. Well, it happened once, but the person had a special energy.

He was scared of the outside as well when I got him, he had never set foot outside. I walked him everyday and he came to love it after about 4 weeks. 

If I were you I would forget about trying to make her want to be petted outside and just focus on having her actually like being outside. Do fun stuff, stuff that she likes. Then eventually, maybe, she'll want to be petted. If not, does it matter ? I don't let anyone pet my dog, I know he would most probably bite.

These dogs are very, very challenging. I hope she takes treats !


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

It is now pretty well established that comforting a dog does not "reward" or "reinforce" fear - you can increase fearfulness by your own anxiety and behaviour, but calm comfort and reassurance help rather than hinder. And I would absolutely avoid making her accept things that she fears, like strangers coming close or worse, touching her. She is doing everything in her power to show you how frightened she is, your job is to show her that you understand and can protect her.

It does sound as if she missed out on a lot of early socialisation, so you are now playing catch up, and it will be a long, slow process. It may help that you are the only one walking her - at least you can control her experiences to a large extent. I think watching the world go by at a distance is an excellent idea, preferably from far enough away that she can relax. I would try lots of very short walks from home, just a few yards to sniff, and then back to safety, to help to build her confidence. Don't let anyone approach her, and don't force her to meet and greet - let her decide how close to get. Ask people she knows and likes to come by your chosen seat, and see if she is more at ease with them. See if she is happier with people if they crouch down, or sit. Do everything you can to build her confidence - training, agility, routine, consistency will all help her to feel more in control. She probably will never want to bounce up to everyone, but there is a lot you can do to make her life happier.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Dechi and fjm have given you some good suggestions. I hope they help.

All I can say at this point is that it is really a terrible disservice that has been done to this puppy that others in the family and her real primary owner did not apparently understand the importance of early socialization. You may well be able to improve her anxious responses significantly but she will never be the dog she could have been had she been taken out and about early on. I am not saying this to be critical of you, but rather to reemphasize for others who may read this down the road how important early socialization is for proper development of young dogs. Javelin didn't take class in any formal way when he was young, but he did come to my obedience club with me from about 10 weeks old. He met many people and well mannered adult dogs there.


----------



## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Your puppy needs not to be punished for her fears. It sounds like you may have soaked up some Milan methods, and I strongly suggest to read elsewhere.

Fearfuldogs.com could be helpful. The book Culture Clash is highly suggested and if your parents will not permit you to purchase it, many libraries have it for loan.

Dr. Dunbar's Before and After books are available for download for free:
Free downloads | Dog Star Daily . You may be able to find gentle ways to help this dog. The website in general has tremendous information, too: Dog Star Daily .


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Streetcar, yes a fearful dog should not be forced to confront the things that are scary for it. Your resources are excellent suggestions. 

Patience and gentle guidance with the dog telling you what is acceptable is the path to success in a situation like that. As an example I noticed yesterday that apparently a shar pei near the novice match ring was making Javelin nervous enough to be a distraction during heeling work. Since he didn't want to work near the dog (who was sitting quietly) I moved to a different part of the ring to refocus him and help him to be successful during our ring time. After we finished I approached to a distance Javelin was accepting of and asked the owner if she minded if I did a little desensitizing near her and her dog. She was very obliging and with plenty of treats and letting Javelin show me what he thought was okay we got very close to the dog and Javvy even gave her a little butt sniff at the end. He has never seen a shar pei before and I think the dog's appearance threw him off. There is a woman who breeds and shows shar peis who trains with me sometimes, but Javelin has usually been in his crate when she's been there. I can see that I will have to bring him out the next time she comes to class, and the next time and the next time...


----------



## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

I just noticed Grisha Stewart has reworked her Behavior Adjustment Training program. Here is a link to the book: BEHAVIOR ADJUSTMENT TRAINING 2.0: NEW PRACTICAL TECHNIQUES FOR FEAR, FRUSTRATION, AND AGGRESSION - Dogwise Published Items - Dogwise.com . Blueroan, this might have some real possibilities for you helping the family's dog.


----------



## blueroan (Dec 28, 2015)

Thank you for your support and advice! I tried to explain today about honey's fearfulness. Basically the reaction I got was "she doesn't need to get used to anything because she is a home dog."

Argh, you and I both know better than that. So I plug away at it with no help from anyone, basically. It's frustrating, but also interesting because we are getting a close bond together. The previous one we couldn't walk because he WASN'T afraid of any dogs and would in fact incent them by yelling his face off. He wasn't aggressive, just easily could push an aggressive dog. It was unsafe and dangerous. Luckily, he had the lowest energy I've ever seen a poodle have, and was fine in the house with play time in the backyard. 

This one has soooo much energy, that compared to Dusty, it looks like she's hyperactive. I think she actually has normal poodle energy. She needs the walks! I tried to explain though that bring overly afraid is also dangerous because she doesn't pay attention and wants to bolt. She almost ran into the road on more than one occasion because of something she saw. The response is "but you're holding the leash, so she couldn't have done that". No but I don't want to worry that it MIGHT happen. Then it's "no dog is predictable, even an extremely well trained one." 

True! But with training, they become MORE predictable in their actions because they are listening and confident! 

Some days I feel like I'm just hitting my head on a brick wall. I wish I had the money to move out and get a dog of my own!!


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

_"Thank you for your support and advice! I tried to explain today about honey's fearfulness. Basically the reaction I got was 'she doesn't need to get used to anything because she is a home dog.'"

_Nobody said anything remotely like what I quoted above to you. If you read more closely you will see that many suggestions were made, but that you need to be super patient about all this. Forcing her to confront her fears nose to nose so to speak will not improve the situation for this pup. It will not be an overnight fix and you may never get her over all of her fears. Also as I said it would have been better to avoid this by proper early socialization as a note for others who may read this thread down the road.


----------



## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

Lily, I believe blueroan was referring to her family at home, not people on this forum. I could be wrong, but that's how I understood it. 
Blueroan, you've gotten some great advice here today and I just wanted to add that I respect your efforts and your eagerness to learn. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Caddy said:


> Lily, I believe blueroan was referring to her family at home, not people on this forum. I could be wrong, but that's how I understood it.
> Blueroan, you've gotten some great advice here today and I just wanted to add that I respect your efforts and your eagerness to learn. Let us know how it goes.


Caddy you may be correct about that, in which case I am sorry to have misunderstood. I hope you can convince your family to participate in training and socializing her.


----------



## Sammy the spoo (Jul 7, 2016)

Caddy said:


> Lily, I believe blueroan was referring to her family at home, not people on this forum. I could be wrong, but that's how I understood it.
> Blueroan, you've gotten some great advice here today and I just wanted to add that I respect your efforts and your eagerness to learn. Let us know how it goes.


This was my understanding as well. Good for you, OP, for seeking advice and jumping in to better this dog's life. I hope you will have a great relationship with your dog, and I'm sure you'll find great advice in the future from PF! The crew here has been wonderful!

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


----------



## blueroan (Dec 28, 2015)

Thanks guys...yes I was referring to people at home. I know she needed early socializing just like any other puppy but it was always an uphill battle. My hands were tied much of the time, and they still are. But as long as I live here, I will do my best by this sweet little girl. I see how she is in the home, and wish she could be like that outside, and know she likely would have been if I'd been able to get her out there.

The previous one was very weird in a lot of areas, and I was hoping to avoid that in this one! I think she's smarter than him (girl power! lol) so hopefully we can overcome a lot of this with patience and work! 

It's too bad as she is my dream puppy...I've always wanted a red girl...would have loved a Standard, but a Mini was the next best choice. And she is so smart (I had posted about the prank she pulled on me in Poodle Talk "What happens when your poodle is TOO smart). I am enjoying this special girl, just wish I had more support! Thank you PFs!


----------

