# Find the American Pit Bull Terrier



## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

I came across this on a NZ message board awhile ago

Pet Pitbull - Find the Pit Bull

and was genuinely shocked at how many people could not actually correctly identify the pit bull. About 90% of people could not, and a lot of these people claim that they had been attacked by a 'pit bull'

See if you can get it first try, and place you 'vote' to give some statistics on it.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

VERY good breed information on that site. That is one of the few I have seen that acknowledges there are particular hazards to owning a pit bull. 

I'm on the fence on BSL - on the one hand, it is unfair to ban a particular breed when there are a) good examples and b) other breeds that can be made dangerous in the wrong hands vs. the other hand, where there is chronic problem of these big powerful dogs being magnets for the absolutely wrong sort of owner. 

If I were king, I'd require knowledge test and mandatory obedience training. Too bad it's not feasible to just ban bad owners. 

The one thing on the site that bugs me, and I've seen it elsewhere, is the statement: Any dog that attacked or bit a handler (even if it was the other dog's handler) or anyone else at any time was culled, often on the spot, and would never have been bred.

That's all well and good, but that is NOT the criteria being applied today. Just as you can breed a trait into a dog, bad breeders can breed it right back out again.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

my son has one and he's out of town this weekend and she is right now with me. 

bright, funny, smart, well behaved, well trained girl. will play with any dog and she minds so well.

and my son worked really hard with her. 

good owners make great dogs. train train train and socialize socialize socialize


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## Karma'sACat (Jun 1, 2010)

The problem is BSL doesn't work. It punishes the good responsible owners and the bad owners and criminals keep their pit bulls and don't give a hoot that they are breaking the law. Dog bites don't go down, dog attacks don't go down when BSL is enacted. Not to mention the expense to taxpayers. Oh, and they can seize your dog because of how they look, regardless of if they are in fact the banned breed or not. There is no reliable canine breed genetic test so there is no way to prove a dog is a pit bull.
Another thing few people think about is that BSL is a huge danger to the service dog community. If you have a pit bull looking service dog (like my Dixie) you are in danger of having your dog taken because of how they look despite the fact that service dogs are some of the most well trained dogs around. This became a big enough problem that the Americans with Disabilities Act recently had the addition (among other changes) that BSL doesn't apply to service dogs.
Like faerie, I have a pit bull and a Catahoula/pit bull mix and they are wonderful, sweet, well trained and dog friendly dogs. My full pittie is one of the tester dogs at her daycare and in the one fight she has been in, she was the victim and did NOT even try to fight back (and she was attacked by a pure bred lab, in case you were wondering). Dixie, my Cat/pit mix, was a service dog and Lola is working towards competing in agility with my 13 y/o cousin. They have been well socialized and well trained and that produced two wonderful, trustworthy dogs. They live with cats and small dogs and have never even shown the tiniest sign of aggression.


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## buttercup123 (Oct 7, 2010)

^^
I have to worry for my Cane Corso when I got out in busy places with lots of cops because everyone thinks she is and she is very small for the breed so its another stike against her. 
It sucks that so many other breeds are effeted by them too.
I hae a anti BSL tattoo right on my forearm

Btw I got t first try I would hope so since I'm obsessed with them :curl-lip:


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

First try!! I love pitties!!


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I'm sorry to say, buy my step brothers and all the stupid people I've met that own the breed has made me dislike them. A lot of young men here get them, thinking it's 'cool' to get a pit, but these guys don't know anything about the dogs, then they breed them and ugh..


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

I would love a pit one day, but I'd have to move out of the country. There is one that comes by the dog park every once in a while (not allowed, but no one cares), and she is just the sweetest, well mannered girl. So gentle with the little doggies.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

I fully accept there are good examples of pits, solid and stable and owned by responsible people. I don't think anyone disputes that. That type of owner is going to turn out a good dog regardless of breed.

But if an irresponsible owner gets hold of a badly bred pit bull, doesn't train or socialise, encourages aggressive behaviour, the result is a *really *dangerous dog. The same upbringing applied to a beagle isn't going to result in as dangerous a result. 

I don't have a solution, but I sympathise with communities that are TRYING to find a solution, even if the solution is BSL.


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## buttercup123 (Oct 7, 2010)

> even if the solution is BSL


And do you not realise it effects all breeds that have short hair, a big head and are stalky?

How is it fair that my MASTIFF can get taken away and killed because she looks like a pit to stupid people?

American Bulldogs
English bull terriers
Alpha blue blood bulldogs
Boxers
LABS
Mastiffs
Dogos
And any mixes of those breeds can be taken because of BSL.



> That type of owner is going to turn out a good dog regardless of breed


Not true at all, there are diferent breeds for reasons and they all need different training and different types of people. 
If someone owned a Pit and got a Cane Corso itcould be a mess, Pits are a lot less of a dog then a Corso and need a very firm owner to make sure they arent aggressive.
Pits arent like that at all.

I'm sure if BSL started effecting your breed you'd be changing your mind real quick..


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

I was just trying to make the point that a good owner, one who researches his/her breed, takes advice from others, takes steps to train and socialise his/her dog, is going to have high odds for ending up with a safe dog. Not that training methods are the same for all breeds, just that a thoughtful, responsible owner is going to find a working method for whatever breed.

My other point was that there are some breeds that are particularly dangerous in the wrong hands: pit bulls, Dogos, Filas, Cane Corsos, Presas. These are breeds with fighting genetics. Not all individuals will show the same level of reactivity, not all individuals will have any issues with dog-aggression or animal aggression. But the odds are higher. Just as the odds are high that a Beagle will follow his nose and a Border Collie will try to herd something. I don't see any reason to make it easy for a neophyte to own one of these breeds.

I'd almost like to see some sort of special license to own some breeds, in the same way that anyone can own a slingshot but (in the UK) one has to demonstrate particular need and a tested level of knowledge to own a gun.


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Pit Bulls weren't actually bred for fighting, they were used for fighting


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Oh? Perhaps I am misinformed. If so, there are some pro-pit-bull sites out there that are similarly misinformed:

From Pit Bull Breed History -- Pitbull

"Ultimately the public's fickle gaze fell on the sport of dog fighting, primarily because it could be more easily hidden from the prying eyes of the law than baiting and other fighting sports. Since dog fighting required smaller and more agile animals than the ones that were used in baiting, fighting bulldogs were bred with terriers who were known for their feistiness and indefatigable focus. The result was the bull-and-terrier, more commonly known as the first pit bull terrier - *a muscular, canine gladiator bred specifically for combat with other dogs*. "

From Pit Bull Rescue Central

"It’s unfortunate that one of the *original purposes of the pit bull was dog fighting*, but it is a fact that cannot be denied or ignored. Even more unfortunate is the fact that they are still chosen for this purpose, even though it is illegal in all fifty states and, in certain instances, as the Michael Vick case illustrates, a federal crime. "

Fighting Pit Bull - Dog Fighting and The American Pit Bull Terrier

"While some people run like they just saw Godzilla stomping down main street when they are confronted with the past of their dogs it is true the American *Pit Bull Terrier was (and still is) bred for dog fighting*.
It's also true they were fighting animals like: 
Bears 
Boar 
Badgers 
Donkeys 
Lions 
Tigers 
...long before they were fought with other Pit Bulls"

Pitbull Fights And The History Of The Breed

"Even though the APBT has historically been *bred to excel in combat with other dogs*, a well-bred APBT has a rock-steady temperament and, contrary to popular belief, is NOT inherently aggressive towards humans. However, as adults, some APBTs may show aggression towards other dogs. This fact, along with the APBT’s strength and determination, should be taken into account when considering if the APBT is the right breed for you."

Pit bull lovers won't be taken seriously until they acknowledge there are specific and real risks involved with the breed, and work to put some controls around people who can own them. I keep hearing/reading "all pit bulls are wonderful safe nanny dogs", then I run personally run across examples where I need to grab my dog and run the other way, either for my own safety or for my dog's.

I've read as much as I can find on dog bite/fatality statistics, and I can't find a single instance of a Miniature Poodle causing a human fatality, so I think I'm safe for now from BSL.


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

wow ummm i just find those sites very uninformed. They are trying to say that the modern pitbull is from 1066 fighting dogs? i doubt it. 


First off the problem is peopel call many breeds pitbulls (YUP even their owners) including staffi's etc. 

Second pitbull is NOT a breed it's a term used for a type: 
"*”Pit bull” is NOT a breed. It's a generic term often used to describe all dogs with similar traits and characteristics known to the public as "pit bulls." When we use the term “pit bull” here, it should be understood to encompass American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, and Staffordshire Bull Terriers. " 

Am Staff's history (from AKC site)


> "Until the early 19th century, the Bulldog used for bullbaiting in England was more active and longer-legged than the breed as we know it today. It is thought that the cross of this older Bulldog and a game terrier breed created the Staffordshire Terrier. Originally called the Bull-and-Terrier Dog, Half and Half or Pit Dog, it became known as the Staffordshire Bull Terrier in England. When accepted for AKC registration in 1936, the name changed to American Staffordshire Terrier to reflect the heavier American type and to distinguish them as separate breeds.





> The bulldog "Said to have originated in the British Isles, the name "bull" was applied because of the dog’s connection with bull baiting. The original bulldog had to be ferocious and courageous, and almost insensitive to pain. When dog fighting became illegal in England, fanciers set to the task of preserving the breed by eliminating the fierce characteristics. Within a few generations, the Bulldog became one of the finest physical specimens with an agreeable temperament."


Reality is Terriers, especially BIG strong terriers are going to do more damage. Reality is too there are more BAD owners breeding and encouraging agressiveness in bull dog type breeds then there are in poodles. 

2008 statistics on fatal dog bites: 


> " * 23 U.S. fatal dog attacks occurred in 2008. Pit bull type dogs were responsible for 65% (15). Pit bulls make up approximately 5% of the U.S. dog population.2
> * In 2008, only one U.S. citizen over the age of 3 was killed by a breed other than a pit bull. 74-year old Lorraine May was fatally mauled by her two dogs: an Australian shepherd-mix and a golden retriever-mix.
> * 70% of the attacks occurred to children (11 years and under) and 30% occurred to adults (21 years and older). Of the children, half (8) occurred to ages 1 and younger.
> * 39% of fatal attacks in 2008 involved multiple dogs; 9% involved chained dogs.
> ...


So yes the TYPE of pit bull is cast in a lot of bites (65%) but the problem is- it's a type not a breed. So ANYTHING with a blocky head will be put into that catagory (IE sara the foster dog i just had who was SO 100% lab i had several people ask if she was part pit bull. ummmm no) 

dog bites in 2008 more detail: 


> 6-weeks old | Lexington, KY
> Justin Mozer, 6-weeks old, was sleeping in a bedroom when the family's Jack Russell Terrier attacked him. According to the uncle, Jeff Mozer, the baby was lying on a king-size bed -- not in a crib. Authorities say the infant died of suffocation and blood loss in the attack. The mother was in another room, bathing a child when the tragedy occurred. The Fayette County Coroner's office ruled the death as accidental. The Jack Russell and the other family dog, a pit bull, were removed from the home after the attack. (source citations)





> Kelli Chapman, 24-years old, was killed by two pit bulls while sleeping in her home. She and her husband had raised the dogs since they were pups -- a four-year old male and one-year old female. Relatives of the woman believe she may have had a seizure while sleeping and the dogs reacted to it by killing her. It's unknown if she had a seizure. What is known is that Kelli died of bite trauma and blood loss. Authorities say she had injuries to her forearms as well, indicating possible defensive wounds. There was damage to furniture and other items in the bedroom too. (source citations)





> Abraham Tackett, 2-years old, was killed after he wandered into a neighbor's yard and was attacked by a chained dog. There were a number of chained dogs in the neighbor's yard that had recently been fed and were still eating. The child approached a 3-year-old husky mixed breed and the dog attacked, apparently protecting its food. This is the second fatal attack in the last dozen years in Fort Yukon (145 miles from Fairbanks). Between 1991-2002, Alaska led the nation in dog bite injuries and death. (source citations)





> 74-years old | Titusville, FL
> Lorraine May, 74-years old, was killed by her two dogs. She suffered a dislocated shoulder and many bites in the attack. Police believe May was breaking up a fight between the dogs. The animals, which she had owned since puppies, had a history of fighting with each other, and were reportedly mother-and-son. One was a female golden-retriever mix and the other was a male Australian-shepherd mix. A neighbor described May as a quiet lady who took good care of her pets. "She loved her dogs from ear to ear. You could tell the dogs brought her a lot of joy." (source citations)



Dog bites and dog bite fatalities suck. And yes until Pit bulls become 'non cool' their rate of bites is going to be higher. They are poorly bred and poorly socialized. And throw in their size and their strength- a bad one is a ticking time bomb. So is any other breed with the same bad breeding and bad socialization. 

But when you go and read through the high percentage of deaths are children under the age of 5, in one case a 2 month old baby killed by a 6 week lab puppy. (Baby left in a swing at puppy's height and unsupervised- story is still a wee bit funky IMO)


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## buttercup123 (Oct 7, 2010)

> pit bulls, Dogos, Filas, Cane Corsos, Presas. These are breeds with fighting genetics.


All those Mastiffs arent bred for fighting either they are bred for gaurding thats why they can be dangerous. 
Pits can have dog aggression passed by genetics but they arent bred to be hum aggressive at all. Any Pit that us/was human aggressive was killed even today with the idiots who fight them. 



> I don't see any reason to make it easy for a neophyte to own one of these breeds.


I agree but BSL isn't the answer. 
A license would be a great idea I wish that people off the street couldnt just go buy my breed either since they are becoming the next pit bull popular wise with idiots. 

Its a very heated subject with me since I have to live with the consiquences of it every day, I dont understand how anyone let alone another dog owner can be ok with it. Like I said your breed isnt effected by it so it doesnt matter for you.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Sorry, I misspoke about all the mastiff breeds. There are problems with animal aggression in the mastiff breeds, though, aren't there?

There is someone I've seen in the park near me, who has done a laudable thing and rescued a mastiff. Unfortunately, she weighs about 90 lbs soaking wet, and the dog is aggressive. Watching him lunging at the end of his lead, while she tries valiantly just to stay on her feet, makes me think this is a tragedy waiting to happen.

Not sure what the solution is. There are lots of situations that shouldn't happen with people and dogs ... people who live in flats and work all day that get Border Collies from working lines, people with toddlers who get toy breed puppies, etc. But the untrained pit bull/irresponsible teenage owner (always male, in my experience) is an actual everyday hazard for me and my dog. I can't tell you how many times I've had to step between my dog and a Staffie-cross, where the other dog is in a braced upright posture, hovering over my smaller dog in a threatening way. The kid owner invariably says 'oh, he just wants to play', because the dog is slowly waving his tail. I get really tired of answering that no, the dog doesn't want to play, or if he does, he wants to play in a way that my dog most certainly won't enjoy. 

Sorry, slipped into ranting. It just annoys the crap out of me, because my dog bothers no one. And for every well-behaved bully breed dog I see, I see ten badly-behaved ones.


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## Karma'sACat (Jun 1, 2010)

The thing is, even if you remove the pit bull type dogs, you will still have dogs in the hand of irresponsible owners who will try and get to your dog. They will just be labs, shepherds, or golden retrievers.


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## buttercup123 (Oct 7, 2010)

JE-UK said:


> Sorry, I misspoke about all the mastiff breeds. There are problems with animal aggression in the mastiff breeds, though, aren't there?
> 
> There is someone I've seen in the park near me, who has done a laudable thing and rescued a mastiff. Unfortunately, she weighs about 90 lbs soaking wet, and the dog is aggressive. Watching him lunging at the end of his lead, while she tries valiantly just to stay on her feet, makes me think this is a tragedy waiting to happen.
> 
> ...


 Yes dog agression is common with Mastiffs and pit bull too. 

The person who rescued the Mastiff shouldnt have that dog, if it's jumping up on its feet and lunging she isn't the right owner for it and it's a disaster waiting to happen. They are powerful dogs and if that leash breaks she will have a lawsuit and some bad media attention. 

It's sad that a lot of idiot kids own them, if they all had to go to obidence it would stop a lot of them from getting one. They would also just move onto another breed though and ruin them. But there are also the rule breakers. We have Pits, pit mixes, staffies and anything that look like the breed banned here yet if I wated to I could go get a puppy pit. So no matter what the laws there will always be people who break them. 

I know since the ban there has been no change in the amount of dog bites and there is a lot of talk of the ban being lifted because it simply does not work. There are always gonna be people who get dogs who arent right for them and unfortunatly there's nothing much that can be done to fix that.


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

I think this quote rings true 

‎"My kids are around pit bulls every day. In the '70s they blamed Dobermans, in the '80s they blamed German shepherds, in the '90s they blamed the Rottweiler. Now they blame the pit bull." - Cesar Millan

Not that I agree with him on the other stuff

No matter what, irresponsible people, will get dogs. It is completely unfair to make BSL, because they will just move on to other dogs.
The only way to go, is to actually have licensing to own a dog, where you have to pass tests. Because you're always going to get idiots with dogs, regardless of breed.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Want to know an aggressive breed? Chihuahua.

They are nasty little devils at the grooming salon.. Ban THAT! (jkjkjkjkjk)


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## Raena (Sep 20, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Want to know an aggressive breed? Chihuahua.
> 
> They are nasty little devils at the grooming salon.. Ban THAT! (jkjkjkjkjk)


oh oh and Scotties!!! those little guys bite HARD!! dang crooked legs....


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Oddly, I'm not all that bothered by biters in general. I've been bitten (enough to draw blood) by a Cocker, a Lab, and a Westie, over the years. Dogs bite. One can train and socialise and train and socialise, but there will be a situation for EVERY dog where the dog will bite. All you can do is try to make reduce the number of situations where the dog must bite, and then avoid situations where the dog has no choice.

I am bothered by bites that maim and kill. Big powerful dogs with a breed reputation for aggression scare me.


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## BellaDella (Sep 25, 2010)

:doh:And I thought I could get it on the first choice...

Thanks for sharing this poll. Just made me an even bigger poodle fan, LOL.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Raena said:


> oh oh and Scotties!!! those little guys bite HARD!! dang crooked legs....


Haha, their legs are totally crooked! There's this one I groom, named Frodo, I had my manager help hold him when I did his nails. She described it as 'being on a bucking bronco while riding on a roller coaster.'


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

allmutt said:


> It took me two look throughs but my first choice was correct. I was drawn to some of those mixed pits with a little more mass and closely cropped ears but kept reminding myself not to deviate toward those bad boys.
> 
> 
> So true, I wonder what breed will be the next dangerous dog. Poodles, yeah I didn't think so either.


Don't underestimate them


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