# Why are poodles in the Non-sporting group?



## Mumu(:

So ,yes thats pretty much my question. Lol i have no idea what the rules or anything are for the AKC groups and such. But poodles seem to be Very sporty to me. So i never really understood the reason why they were in the non-sporting group?


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## Purley

I think the AKC and the CKC (Canadian Kennel Club) have a lot of dogs in strange groups. I quite like the UK groups. I forget what they are all called, but I do know there is a Pastoral group. I forget what poodles are in though.


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## JE-UK

In the UK, poodles are in the Utility group, which is a bit of a catch-all. I think it contains a similar set of breeds as are in the AKC Non-Sporting.

From the Kennel Club:
"The name "Utility" basically means fitness for a purpose and this group consists of an extremely mixed and varied bunch, most breeds having been selectively bred to perform a specific function not included in the sporting and working categories. "

Includes Schnauzers, Dalmations, French Bulldogs ...

Pastoral is generally herding breeds or flock guards, then there is Working (Rottweillers, Great Danes), Hound, Gundog (retrievers and pointers), Terrier, and Toy.

It's a bit of a cheat, really. Based on traditional purpose, Poodles should go in the Gundog group.


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## cliffdweller

Mumu(: said:


> So ,yes thats pretty much my question. Lol i have no idea what the rules or anything are for the AKC groups and such. But poodles seem to be Very sporty to me. So i never really understood the reason why they were in the non-sporting group?


I've found a little bit of info concerning this topic (no thorough research yet) :

"...how did the poodle get lost as a water­fowl retriever? A fair amount of the blame, said Grace Blair, M.D., a poodle breeder from Diamond Springs, California and the person most responsible for the American Kennel Club's decision to include the standard poodle among the list of breeds eligible for AKC hunting tests, rests with the breeders themselves as well as a decision made in the late 19th century.

'The American Kennel Club fol­lowed the lead of the British Kennel Club and put standard poodles in the non-sporting group. No one seems to know what the rationale was for that particular decision," said Dr. Blair. "The Canadian Kennel Club, which started in 1888, had the standard poodle in the sporting group originally but moved them to non-sporting in 1938 when the CKC recognized miniature poodles. The United Kennel Club has always viewed poodles as a sporting breed. What this means, however, is that for roughly 150 years, poodles, for the most part, have not been selective­ly bred for their ability to hunt.'

Poodle folks who hunted with their dogs were unable to even begin addressing this prob~m [sic] until the mid 1980s when the Canadian Kennel Club permitted standard poodles to start partici­pating in the retriever working certificate program. According to Dr. Blair, much of the credit for this move by the CKC must go to Jacqueline Harbour, a poodle breeder in Ontario. And because they had always been part of the UKC's sporting group, poodles were also automatically eligible for the UKC-affiliated Hunting Retriever Club's tests.

In 1993, the Poodle Club of America started a retriever work­ing certificate program, which was a prerequisite for becoming eligi­ble to participate in the AKC's retriever hunting tests. In 1996 the CKC started retriever hunting tests (which look very much like the AKC's tests) with standard poodles permitted to run. The final step came in September of last year when standard poodles became eligible to participate in the AKC's retrieverhunting tests."

Article is here : Standard Poodles: Foo Foos No Longer

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## faerie

yeah, spoos as frou is really annoying.


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