# Toy Poodle Aggressive Towards Other Dogs



## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

Find a bench to sit on where there will be people and dogs walking by and just sit there and watch. Preferably the bench will not be where they are walking by really close, but some distance away. Just ignore the histrionics, but any time he quiets down give praise and maybe a treat. Eventually he will get tired and settle down. Do this several days and then move to a bench closer to where dogs are walking past. Try really hard not to let anybody with a dog approach him.

If you know somebody with a dog who would be willing to help, have them stand still with their dog on leash and approach with Koge on a leash. As soon as Koge starts to act up turn around and walk away from the other dog. When he quiets, turn around and approach again. He never gets to actually meet the dog until he can get there without becoming reactive.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

Some dog training has to occur in public. I just smile at people and quickly explain, "We're training today. We're working on not being reactive" and go back to it.


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## Skyryders (Jan 23, 2021)

reraven123 said:


> Find a bench to sit on where there will be people and dogs walking by and just sit there and watch. Preferably the bench will not be where they are walking by really close, but some distance away. Just ignore the histrionics, but any time he quiets down give praise and maybe a treat. Eventually he will get tired and settle down. Do this several days and then move to a bench closer to where dogs are walking past. Try really hard not to let anybody with a dog approach him.
> 
> If you know somebody with a dog who would be willing to help, have them stand still with their dog on leash and approach with Koge on a leash. As soon as Koge starts to act up turn around and walk away from the other dog. When he quiets, turn around and approach again. He never gets to actually meet the dog until he can get there without becoming reactive.


Very helpful!! Thank you!!!


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## Skyryders (Jan 23, 2021)

Dianaleez said:


> Some dog training has to occur in public. I just smile at people and quickly explain, "We're training today. We're working on not being reactive" and go back to it.


That's a great response. Thank you!


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

He is such a cute little guy! What you're describing is most likely fear-based reactivity. The best advice I can give you is to work alongside a *highly qualified trainer*. With a fearful dog it is necessary to build their confidence and not make them feel that you are forcing them to do things when they are uncomfortable. You need to teach him that you are in charge, you will not allow another dog to bother him, and he does not need to feel responsible for defending himself from other dogs. But it is so much easier to set up training scenarios when you are working with a qualified trainer. It can be really hard to find good trainers so care should be taken in finding one whose methods are tailored to your dog. Lily cd re, Click-N-Treat, and dogsavvy are two members that may have advice on this.


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

Raindrops said:


> What you're describing is most likely fear-based reactivity. With a fearful dog it is necessary to build their confidence and not make them feel that you are forcing them to do things when they are uncomfortable. You need to teach him that you are in charge, you will not allow another dog to bother him, and he does not need to feel responsible for defending himself from other dogs.


This is why I said not to let anybody approach him with a dog. He needs to know he is safe and you are protecting him.


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## Cindy12 (Mar 30, 2020)

This is a great resource: Tackling Reactivity - SpiritDog Training.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think recognising that he is reacting because of fear, and not aggression, is the most important thing. You don't say how old he is, or how much contact he had with other dogs as a puppy - good experiences while very young can help avoid problems later, but dogs can gain confidence even as adults. Do take him out, but keep him far enough away from other dogs that he does not react. Think of something you really fear - spiders? snakes dentist drills? - and then think about being held down while more and more of them come closer and closer... Then think about being fed your favourite chocolates and champagne while they pass harmlessly in the distance - the mere sight of them being a reliable cue for more lovely stuff. Koge needs to be able to trust you to protect him, so that he doesn't have to warn dogs off himself. 

Look into desensitisation and counter-conditioning - the first is very, very slowly building up tolerance levels by introducing the dog to the scary thing in very small controlled doses - watching a harmless dog from several hundred feet away, for example, and very gradually getting closer over weeks as they learn there is no threat. Counter conditioning is changing how they feel about other dogs - seeing a dog in the distance means good treats and games. At the moment it sounds as if Koge is so stressed by being forced to be around other dogs that his mind is too frazzled to think straight, and that can be dangerous - even the gentlest dog can be pushed to bite by severe stress and fear, so I think you are wise to recognise this as something ou need to address as soon as possible.


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## Skyryders (Jan 23, 2021)

Raindrops said:


> He is such a cute little guy! What you're describing is most likely fear-based reactivity. The best advice I can give you is to work alongside a *highly qualified trainer*. With a fearful dog it is necessary to build their confidence and not make them feel that you are forcing them to do things when they are uncomfortable. You need to teach him that you are in charge, you will not allow another dog to bother him, and he does not need to feel responsible for defending himself from other dogs. But it is so much easier to set up training scenarios when you are working with a qualified trainer. It can be really hard to find good trainers so care should be taken in finding one whose methods are tailored to your dog. Lily cd re and dogsavvy are two members that may have advice on this.


Thank you so much! Great suggestion


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I suggest teaching Look at That and also work on improving his understanding that focused attention to you will be a way for him to get reassurance from you. I agree not to allow close approaches from other dogs, not just leashed but also loose dogs where your dog will be distinctly disadvantaged. A good trainer can help you learn how to recognise your dog's signals that he is close to his reactive thresholds then teach you how to keep him under that reactive point. You really want to make sure you prevent him from having opportunities to rehearse the reactive behavior (which is certainly based in fear not overt aggression).


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## Skyryders (Jan 23, 2021)

lily cd re said:


> I suggest teaching Look at That and also work on improving his understanding that focused attention to you will be a way for him to get reassurance from you. I agree not to allow close approaches from other dogs, not just leashed but also loose dogs where your dog will be distinctly disadvantaged. A good trainer can help you learn how to recognise your dog's signals that he is close to his reactive thresholds then teach you how to keep him under that reactive point. You really want to make sure you prevent him from having opportunities to rehearse the reactive behavior (which is certainly based in fear not overt aggression).


This is great! Thank you for your input!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I have the same problem with Beckie. She’s fine in closed environments, like at the vet’s, but on our walks she transforms into a crazy maniac when we see other dogs. I’ve tried many things over the years and the one thing that seems to be working is what I started doing this spring.

This advice came from a local dog behaviorist who has a tv show that I watch. He sometimes uses treats to change the emotion of the dog when confronted to a fear or other strong emotion. This way of treating has nothing to do with rewarding behavior. You are using treats to change the emotion associated with the problem event. In our case, other dogs. So you treat WHILE the dog is doing the behavior. Plenty of treats. You want your dog to come to associate other dogs with « hey, another dog, I’m going to get goodies ! »

So what I do on our walks is every time Beckie has a reaction to hearing a dog bark or seeing a dog, I give her treats. After doing this for a few weeks, she now knows I have treats and will come to me excitedly when I ask her if she wants some. Meanwhile, she is not paying attention to the dog barking. When she has no more reaction, I stop treating and we keep on walking. I also use it when she has a reaction to people.

So far she has stopped reacting to people and barking dogs, for the most part. Live dogs is the higher threshold so it will take more time. But I would say her craziness has gone done maybe 30%.

I think it’s worth trying for you as well. As long as your dog is food motivated. It needs to be something really yummy. And bring lots, you’ll need it. You’ll also need to go gradually, staying far away to start with, and very slowly coming closer as weeks of training go by.

If she isn’t food motivated, maybe her favorite toy would do the trick.


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## Skyryders (Jan 23, 2021)

Dechi said:


> I have the same problem with Beckie. She’s fine in closed environments, like at the vet’s, but on our walks she transforms into a crazy maniac when we see other dogs. I’ve tried many things over the years and the one thing that seems to be working is what I started doing this spring.
> 
> This advice came from a local dog behaviorist who has a tv show that I watch. He sometimes uses treats to change the emotion of the dog when confronted to a fear or other strong emotion. This way of treating has nothing to do with rewarding behavior. You are using treats to change the emotion associated with the problem event. In our case, other dogs. So you treat WHILE the dog is doing the behavior. Plenty of treats. You want your dog to come to associate other dogs with « hey, another dog, I’m going to get goodies ! »
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! I am definitely looking into this method...


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Skyryders said:


> Thank you so much! I am definitely looking into this method...


Please tell me how it goes. Maybe we can help each other.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Here's what Koge is thinking now: Oh, a scary dog. Maybe if I yell at it, it will go away. Go away! Go away! Whew. I yelled and yelled and it went away. That worked. I'm going to do that again next time.

To solve this problem... 

1. Do not take him places where there are dogs unless you are 100% focused on training. Otherwise he will get to practice yelling and get much better at it. Why? Because as far as Koge is concerned what he is doing is working. He yells, dogs go away, problem solved. Sometimes does not work with dogs. If sometimes he gets trained to calmly look at dogs and sometimes he gets to yell, the yelling will continue because it works. 

Professional dog trainer jargon: Barking at dogs is negatively reinforcing (R-) and the behavior will increase. 

2. Set him up for success by figuring out his comfort bubble. How close can he be to a dog before he reacts? If the dog is 30 feet away is he calm? 20 feet? 15 feet? How big is his comfort bubble? For training to work, you need to keep him inside his comfort bubble. Close enough to notice another dog, far enough away to be calm about it.

3. Buy a hamburger. Set out to the park with your dog. With your dog in his comfort bubble, watch dogs together. He looks at the dog, and gets a piece of hamburger and praise. Look at that! Good! Burger bite. Look! Good! Another burger bite. This continues until the dog leaves. When the dog leaves, the hamburger stops. 

Professional dog trainer jargon: Calmly looking at a dog predicts tasty hamburger pieces (R+) Calmly looking at dogs is reinforcing (R+) Calm behavior will increase.

4. Over time, gradually shrink the distance between your dog and the trigger. 

Important note: If your timing is wrong, your bubble is the wrong size, your distance is incorrect, this can backfire spectacularly.

Professional dog trainer jargon: Staring at dogs in a hyper aroused state predicts hamburger pieces (R+) Hyper aroused state will increase. Dog will be trained to be more reactive around dogs. 

So, please work with a professional trainer. Counterconditioning reactivity is harder than it appears on a forum or on YouTube. A few sessions with a professional trainer who understands how to set your dog up for success with positive reinforcement will make a world of difference.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Click-N-Treat said:


> Professional dog trainer jargon: Staring at dogs in a hyper aroused state predicts hamburger pieces (R+) Hyper aroused state will increase. Dog will be trained to be more reactive around dogs.


This! Wow! A revelation. Thanks, Click.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

PeggyTheParti said:


> This! Wow! A revelation. Thanks, Click.


Yes, I have seen this backfire horribly. There was a reactive yorkie taking agility classes with us for a long time. She was working on his reactivity by treating him to regain his focus when he was reactive. He just got more reactive over time. Sadly he stopped coming to classes. This is why I recommend working with a qualified trainer that is a good match. Techniques can require a lot more nuance and care to apply than is easily conveyed via text. But care must be taken to find the *right* trainer. The trainer she tried working with sounded like she did not know how to work with a soft-tempered toy dog and was out of her league.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

It takes a lot of courage to tell a client you are out of your league. It costs you bookings and money with that person in the short term and can also damage your reputation over time. I will give a referral if I think a particular dog's issues are out of range of my expertise. I'm not sure how that will work over time, but it seems most honorable. Trainers for private work are not cheap.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I have an ethical problem with not referring people to another trainer. If a dog bites a human, that dog is out of my training expertise and I will refer the client to someone else. We all have our niche. It's like any other form of education. Someone who is certified to teach fourth grade might feel completely overwhelmed teaching high school AP calculus, and vice versa. If I can't help a client, I let them know up front and happily pass on the name of another trainer. Does this policy lose me clients? Yes. Is it best for dogs? Absolutely. It's also best for me because I'm not trying to do something I feel uncomfortable doing.


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## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

Click-N-Treat said:


> Here's what Koge is thinking now: Oh, a scary dog. Maybe if I yell at it, it will go away. Go away! Go away! Whew. I yelled and yelled and it went away. That worked. I'm going to do that again next time.
> 
> To solve this problem...
> 
> ...


May I ask roughly what would change about this if the dog was an excited greeter that very much wants the dog to come closer or for dogs (especially intact males) that love the adrenaline of barking at other dogs and are having the time of their lives? Can you counter-condition a dog that’s having a lot of (over-aroused) fun?


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

Actually you would do just about the same things. You want to teach the dog that the only way he will be allowed to greet or approach the other dog is if he is behaving quietly and controlling himself. He needs to be able to "look at that" without overreacting, he needs to be able to sit quietly while the other dog walks past, he needs to be able to approach the other dog on a loose leash.

Whether he is "losing it" because of fear or because of enthusiasm, he needs to learn calm and control are the only ways to get what he wants.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Phazz while you will do many of the same things to train for desirable behaviors I think it is important to know what the dog is feeling whie doing the undesirable behavior since it will give you clues about their underlying physiology. It takes longer I think to clear jacked up cortisol stress responses as compared to hyper amounts of adrenaline. I also think it is useful if the dog needs reassurance because of fear or help to calm their excited state.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

A dog who wants to play with every dog it sees and goes over threshold barking and spinning, needs counterconditioning as well. But, it's going to go a whole lot faster and be a lot less stressful than a scared dog. The answer to that problem is teaching the dog to say please. Please is a calm focused sit. No calm focused sit, no greeting for you. 

So, first you have to teach your dog to calmly watch other dogs. Second, calmly sit while calmly watching other dogs. If the dog gets too excited to sit, you are too close. If you take one step toward the dog and your dog lunges forward and spins in circles, you're too close. Take two steps back and retrain the sit. 

Is this fast? Nope. Is this easy to fix? Nope. Will your dog throw a tantrum like a toddler? Yes. Will you give in? NOPE!!!!! Because you are the one with opposable thumbs, you get to decide what happens. Say please and you can say hi. You did not say please, you do not get to say hi. Dogs like clear rules. Yes and no. Always and never. 

If you introduce sometimes into your training you have created a slot machine behavior. R+ _sometimes_ is one of the most powerful motivators on earth. No one has ever gone to Vegas and gone broke putting money in a vending machine. R+ always is a vending machine. People will spend their child's entire college fund at a slot machine. R+ _sometimes_ is a slot machine. Keep that in mind as you train.

Sometimes reinforcing your dog is incredibly powerful. So, use it wisely. Ask yourself, is this a behavior I want to see way more of? Or is this a behavior I never want to see again. If it's something you never want to see again, never reinforce it. Never let your dog lunge on leash to greet a dog. Lunging = leaving. Every time your dog successfully does a self-reinforcing behavior (barking, lunging, yanking, spinning, whining) your dog is learning what works. Dogs do what works.

Barking at the mail carrier makes the mail carrier go away. That works. I'll keep barking.
Pulling my person to meet a new dog lets me say hi. That works. I'll keep pulling.
Going ballistic at strange dogs makes them leave. That works. I'll keep going ballistic.
Jumping up on people gets me attention. That works. I'll keep jumping.

See?

Your job as the human with the big brain and opposable thumbs, is figuring out what you would like your dog to do instead and setting up the dog to succeed. 

Close the curtains and move the chair so the dog doesn't have access to the window. No more barking at the mail carrier.
Pulling my person toward another dog makes my person do an about turn and I get farther away. Pulling doesn't work. 
Watching strange dogs calmly at a distance gets me hamburger. Being calm pays better than going ballistic.
Jumping up makes people ignore me. When I stand calmly on the floor I get attention. Being calm pays better.

See?


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## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

reraven123 said:


> Actually you would do just about the same things. You want to teach the dog that the only way he will be allowed to greet or approach the other dog is if he is behaving quietly and controlling himself. He needs to be able to "look at that" without overreacting, he needs to be able to sit quietly while the other dog walks past, he needs to be able to approach the other dog on a loose leash.
> 
> Whether he is "losing it" because of fear or because of enthusiasm, he needs to learn calm and control are the only ways to get what he wants.


oh yes, I understand that the final picture looks the same but what I wonder about what reinforcement looks like. A silly example example: Sally opens her front door to find a group of people telling her she won the lottery. Sally starts hopping, hollering, and losing it. Sally’s friend starts shoving delicious cookies in your mouth to help her feel differently about winning the lottery but it’s not counter-conditioning because Sally already loves winning the lottery.

So how do we help Sally be calm about really exciting things? I would think calmness gets the reward of moving towards the thing or at least getting to look at it longer. Moving away would be negative punishment I believe (which is commonly used in force free/positive training despite it technically being a punishment). Moving away might also cause a bigger reaction, faster next time due to anticipation. All this is to say is I wonder if things are different taking in account the underlying feelings because ultimately you don’t want suppression, you want how the dog “feels” about the thing to change. I think for over-aroused, non-fearful dogs you probably want something approaching boredom or light curiosity with other dogs. So I suppose it would be doing something like relaxation protocol but with dogs.


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## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

Click-N-Treat said:


> A dog who wants to play with every dog it sees and goes over threshold barking and spinning, needs counterconditioning as well. But, it's going to go a whole lot faster and be a lot less stressful than a scared dog. The answer to that problem is teaching the dog to say please. Please is a calm focused sit. No calm focused sit, no greeting for you.
> 
> So, first you have to teach your dog to calmly watch other dogs. Second, calmly sit while calmly watching other dogs. If the dog gets too excited to sit, you are too close. If you take one step toward the dog and your dog lunges forward and spins in circles, you're too close. Take two steps back and retrain the sit.
> 
> ...


Woops! We posted at the same time, thank you for this thorough answer!


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

For Sally, the people with the check would turn around and walk away. The only way Sally can get them to come back is to be calm and polite. As soon as Sally is quiet, the people turn and approach her door again. As long as Sally is quiet, they keep approaching. As soon as Sally gets too excited, they turn and walk away. Sally will figure out pretty soon that if she wants that check she had better say "thank you" politely and leave it at that.


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## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

reraven123 said:


> For Sally, the people with the check would turn around and walk away. The only way Sally can get them to come back is to be calm and polite. As soon as Sally is quiet, the people turn and approach her door again. As long as Sally is quiet, they keep approaching. As soon as Sally gets too excited, they turn and walk away. Sally will figure out pretty soon that if she wants that check she had better say "thank you" politely and leave it at that.


Yes, that’s what I meant by negative punishment and once Sally chills she gets positive reinforcement of the thing moving closer. We’re saying the same thing


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think there is another strand to dealing with excited greetings, and that is to make meeting other dogs an everyday, ho hum experience. To extend the Sally metaphor, if the cheque was for $100 rather than for $1,000,000, and more cheques arrived three times a day for weeks, by the 20th delivery a quiet "Oh, thanks!" would be much easier to achieve! 

I combined walking away briefly (often several times) with ensuring my dogs got to say hello to multiple dogs every day - just a short greeting and then we moved on. Most meetings between dogs are a matter of seconds - they sniff each other, possibly mark the same spot, then go their separate ways. If meetings only happen a few times a week, and every meeting predicts a wild game of chase and wrestling, then over excitement is almost inevitable.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Those brief interactions, happening over and over, must make the dog less inclined to lose their mind. Unfortunately, I'm more likely to encounter dogs who fling themselves around in excitement than calmly greet. For me personally, it's easier to just reinforce calm ignoring and have a policy of never letting my dog say hi on leash. But, then again, I do dog sports and in a close crating area having a dog that ignores other dogs is expected.


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## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

fjm said:


> I think there is another strand to dealing with excited greetings, and that is to make meeting other dogs an everyday, ho hum experience. To extend the Sally metaphor, if the cheque was for $100 rather than for $1,000,000, and more cheques arrived three times a day for weeks, by the 20th delivery a quiet "Oh, thanks!" would be much easier to achieve!
> 
> I combined walking away briefly (often several times) with ensuring my dogs got to say hello to multiple dogs every day - just a short greeting and then we moved on. Most meetings between dogs are a matter of seconds - they sniff each other, possibly mark the same spot, then go their separate ways. If meetings only happen a few times a week, and every meeting predicts a wild game of chase and wrestling, then over excitement is almost inevitable.


I think so too, I wish so badly that I could do this more often but Tekno is so tiny that he activates a lot of dog's prey drives so we keep our distance with strangers 😳 I'm looking hard for an urban dog class where he can walk around on sidewalks with a group of chill dogs and gain some confidence about seeing them in other places besides training class. I don't think I would let him actually greet but walking calmly besides dogs would be good for him.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Phaz23 said:


> I think so too, I wish so badly that I could do this more often but Tekno is so tiny that he activates a lot of dog's prey drives so we keep our distance with strangers 😳 I'm looking hard for an urban dog class where he can walk around on sidewalks with a group of chill dogs and gain some confidence about seeing them in other places besides training class. I don't think I would let him actually greet but walking calmly besides dogs would be good for him.


. He may be too young but AKC has three levels of Canine Good Citizen. Each level deals with being able to walk by dogs calmly. Are there any classes he can take in person? It may be a more controlled situation to train plus he will see the same dogs each week. I used to go early to class and practice with two other teams.


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## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

Skylar said:


> . He may be too young but AKC has three levels of Canine Good Citizen. Each level deals with being able to walk by dogs calmly. Are there any classes he can take in person? It may be a more controlled situation to train plus he will see the same dogs each week. I used to go early to class and practice with two other teams.


yes, we took a puppy obedience course and we’re taking a beginner’s right now at a new place. He’s a little advanced for the class but it’s an opportunity to proof and learn around a new group of dogs. The class after this will be CGC. Since I started at a new spot I went ahead and started at the beginning instead of “testing out”. Just to take things nice and slow. Ill see if we make any friends there that we could work with.


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## Maggied (Sep 6, 2018)

Skyryders said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> We have an awesome toy poodle named Koge (Koe-gee). We absolutely adore him and he is so smart. We are total poodle converts!! Koge is awesome with all of our family members, including our geriatric Cavalier and 2 year old cat. He plays with them and is not aggressive at all. Koge is almost never aggressive with us... a very rare instance here and there when he's trying to avoid something... super rare though and he gets over it fast when we say, "no!"
> 
> ...


What a doll!Reading these excellent responses, I was wondering if videos of dogs can help desensitize? Or even borrowing friends' dogs blankets, toys, etc. to expose this cutie to dog stuff while he is being cuddled or given treats might be helpful.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

If anyone is reading this that has just gotten their puppy, or hasn't gotten it yet, and wants to actually prevent this kind of behavior from ever happening, please start with the kind of exercises Click-n-treat and some others are recommending from the first moment you get your puppy. Don't wait for the unwanted behaviors to start.

I chose my Spoo to train to be a Service Dog, and was told that the best thing was to calmly introduce my puppy within the first 16 weeks to 40 different dogs, 40 different people of all ages, races, wearing hats, beards, etc, etc. I not only did that, but also to chicken, sheep, horses, etc. The first 16 weeks of life has something magical in it toward forming later lifetime behaviors. 

He became an amazingly unflappable dog who loves people and dogs, (even cats if they are hot the hissy spitty dash away variety). He doesn't bark, or jump on people, or charge, etc. It was an intense lot of work up front (forget about working at the same time), but it has been so worth it. I also taught and reinforced in him calming signals towards other animals. 

I literally thought I would die before the 16 weeks were up (actually it took me more like 19 weeks) but I am forever grateful to the person that instilled that in my mind.


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