# When is the best time to spay?



## aprhj (Jun 16, 2009)

Poppy is nearly 6 month old. When would be the best time to have her spayed? She is still kinda small for a standard but much bigger than a mini. Would spaying her now have an effect on her size?


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## alienz (Jan 2, 2010)

*spaying*

I have heard that it is better to wait until they are around 1 years old to give them a chance to mature mentally and physically. You might want to check that out. By the way your parti is cute. I have 2 standard partis.


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## *tina* (Jan 3, 2010)

From everything I've read, it depends on the vet. Some want to spay early, some prefer to wait until later. If we have a male, we will be neutering him as soon as he meets the weight requirements (I've had bad experiences with dogs who were neutered at a later age), and if we have a female, I'm prone to wait a little longer, because honestly a girl's temperament doesn't vary much between spayed/intact.


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## Mercury's Mom (Dec 6, 2009)

Is it different to wait for a male vs a female? I have 2 male littermates who are almost 5 months old and I want to make sure they stay compatable, yet want them to reach their full potential physically as well.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

The down side to waiting until the bitch "matures" is the risk of the bitch becoming pregnant.

I like to see the majority of dogs of either gender altered by 6 months of age. 

You will get many reasons form many different places with many different explanations of why you should or shouldn't spay or neuter at a certain age.


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## Fur Elite (Nov 4, 2009)

They say that a dog who is neutered/spayed before reaching maturity will "never reach their full physical potential". If it is a pet, though, really....who cares. I have had many neutered pets, neutered sometimes when they were what most people consider too young because they were neutered at the shelter. I never noticed them to be physically defective in any way but they were usually mutts so how can you tell? If mine was just going to be a pet, I would probably spay by 8 months as why would you want to mess with that mess. Many standards often don't even come into their first season until they are close to a year old and I have known some to not come in until they were almost two. That is standard poodle though, the little ones I don't know about.


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

This is just me, but w/ a standard I would wait longer. There have been studies (I'm sure you can find them w/ google) linking early spay/neuter w/ HD. You should look them up and decide if they are relevant to your situation. IMO, there are good reasons to wait and good reasons to go ahead at 6 months or before the first heat.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

Harley_chik said:


> This is just me, but w/ a standard I would wait longer. There have been studies (I'm sure you can find them w/ google) linking early spay/neuter w/ HD.


Hip dysplasia is HEREDITARY it is _not_ caused by early spaying or neutering. The people who did this so called "study" used dogs who were _not_ tested for HD and used breeds who are known for bad hips, I believe it was Airedales. 

Just spay your dog before its first heat cycle and she should be just fine.


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

HD is not always hereditary and can be caused by strenuous activity at a young age or injury. It makes sense to me that if early spay/neuter can affect the way a dog structurally matures, it could be linked to(I never said cause) HD. I'm not saying any study is gospel, only that they're worth looking at IMO. 


http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html 
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf
http://www.acc-d.org/2006%20Symposium%20Docs/Session%20I.pdf


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Harley_chik said:


> HD is not always hereditary and can be caused by strenuous activity at a young age or injury. It makes sense to me that if early spay/neuter can affect the way a dog structurally matures, it could be linked to(I never said cause) HD. I'm not saying any study is gospel, only that they're worth looking at IMO.
> 
> 
> http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html
> ...



AGREED!! There are loads of cases of HD in dogs with awesome, tested backgrounds who develop HD anyways. It has been shown it can be environmental too.

I recommend waiting until a female is about eight months old to spay. Hopefully this will miss her first heat (usually at about nine months of age) but allow her to grow and fill out for some time). Males I suggest be neutered at around 14 months of age so he can bulk up and develop muscle before being done.


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## thestars (May 2, 2009)

Sam (68 lbs now) was neutered at 5 months and Lucy (44 lbs now) was spayed at 6 months, both are 8 1/2 years old and have had not medical issues what so ever. Matter of fact they have only had to go to the vet for routine shots. Neither one has hips problems or arthritis. Sam still squats. Elsa is 12 1/2 and was spayed at 4 1/2 years, she is arthritic and it is noticable that her rear hip strength is weak (but only on the days I'm feeling the arthritis too.) All my other pet puppies have been early spayed and neutered before puberty/heat. Never had any hip problems.


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## aprhj (Jun 16, 2009)

Thanks for all the info. Still not sure when, but will probably try to get it done within the next 2 months to avoid her going into heat. I had just heard, now we hear and can google everything these days and sometimes that creates conflicts, to let her mature more and have her first heat. Should not be an issue with male dogs as she is in the house most of the time and we would make sure keep a close watch if she did go into heat, but I'm sure my hubby would like to avoid the mess. I just want to make we have it done at the correct time, but seems like there is no tried and true correct time.

More comments appreciated


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

I encourage all of my puppy owners to try and let their Poodles get to 1 yr before they are spayed/neutered. I think the secondary sex hormones contribute to better bone density and coat quality. I also prefer a male dog who lifts his leg because then he does not pee on himself.


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## Raena (Sep 20, 2009)

on average when do standards go into heat? and how soon after is it safe and reasonable to spay? My contract says that she has to be spayed by nine months, i want to wait as long as possible for coat and joint reasons, so is it safe to wait till right before the nine months or should i shoot for sooner so if she does hit her heat i can allow for that? Btw thank you for starting this it was very informative!!


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## cerulia (Jan 7, 2010)

We have a female and we are waiting until after her first heat to spay her which will be around 6-8 months. We have read several articles and our vet and breeder agree that waiting until this first heat can clear up some anatomical anomalies in the reproductive system. The vulva changes shape with the dose of hormones and this shape change can reduce the number of chronic infections that are sometimes seen in female poodles spayed too soon. Of course there are scientific papers that back up almost any point of view but we think it might be better for all of her systems to receive the hormones they're expecting--bones, brains etc..


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

lil dogs can come in heat as young as 5-6 months old, and most lil guys have had their first heat by the time they're 9-12 months old. The bigger dogs mature later, so are more likely to be 9-12 months for their first heat, and I've heard of girls not coming until closer to 18 months.

And then there are always exceptions!


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## Buck (Oct 22, 2009)

Cooper was neutered right before he turned a year old. I would of liked to have waited a little longer but he was humping all the females at dayplay and having to go into TIME OUT for it:doh: so I went on and had him fixed. To this day at 20 months old he does not hike his leg.hwell:. Greta will be at least a year old before I have her spaded per the breeder's request. I have been told that they need those hormones for growth and development, especially if you plan to do any type of agility with them, the later the better. Cooper loves to run and he is very fast. And Greta is small but can run like the wind, very agile.


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## Raena (Sep 20, 2009)

Buck said:


> especially if you plan to do any type of agility with them, the later the better.


I do plan on doing agility, and possibly rally, my breeder is very reasonable, would it be rude to ask if i could wait past the 9 month deadline?


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## Buck (Oct 22, 2009)

Raena said:


> I do plan on doing agility, and possibly rally, my breeder is very reasonable, would it be rude to ask if i could wait past the 9 month deadline?


Not at all . I would definitely talk to her about it.


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Considering everything I read so far and being a biologist, I know that I personally would wait till 8 mos to a year at least - possibly longer.

Removing ANY gland in the body has tremendous effect on the development of any animal and downplaying that fact is silly, in my humble opinion.

Just because we do not see effects with the naked eye, does not mean that they are not happening. 

Anybody who went through a puberty, pregnancy or menopause should "reflect" and would get just a glimpse of how much sex-hormones effect the body AND the brain.


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

wishpoo said:


> Considering everything I read so far and being a biologist, I know that I personally would wait till 8 mos to a year at least - possibly longer.
> 
> Removing ANY gland in the body has tremendous effect on the development of any animal and downplaying that fact is silly, in my humble opinion.
> 
> ...


You know this brings up a really good point to make. I once spoke with a breeder that wouldn't let any of her pets go to their new homes without being fixed first. That meant if you were going to get your new puppy during a good bonding time, 8 weeks, either you got a spayed/neutered dog at a very young age or you had to wait until they were old enough to be spayed/neutered which meant you missed out on the good age to bond with puppy. Some will disagree with me about ages to bond with puppies but there has been research done on when a good time to rehome puppies is and 8-10 weeks seems to be the mark.

I had Harry neutered when he was about 14 months or so and he never made it to hike the leg status and he still humped the rescue I got that was in heat. I don't think humping has as much to do with sexual energy as it does pack status. That's often a misconception people have about dogs humping each other because neutered dogs and even females hump other dogs to show dominance to that dog.


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## Raena (Sep 20, 2009)

my BC mix was a rescue i got him when he was 9 weeks and he was already healed!!! ugh, thats way to young! My vet keeps telling me to spay her earlier (6 months) to reduce the chance of mammary tumors and all i want to tell her is then why don't we spay people before they have their first period to reduce the chance of breast cancer? Yeah that would never fly with anyone!! so why would we do it to the dogs? Thank you wishpoo for bringing up that just because we don't see it doesnt mean that a problem doesnt exist. like feeding ol'Roy and saying my dogs coat looks good so he must be healthy!! or not. sorry for the rant... so spay between 9 and 12 months (i don't want to push my luck with the breeder)?


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## Raena (Sep 20, 2009)

Have any of you noticed coat changes after altering? If so what kinds?


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

wishpoo said:


> Considering everything I read so far and being a biologist, I know that I personally would wait till 8 mos to a year at least - possibly longer.
> 
> Removing ANY gland in the body has tremendous effect on the development of any animal and downplaying that fact is silly, in my humble opinion.
> 
> ...


Yes but dogs not are not human and its unfair to compare them to one another.

As I have stated before I have any many dogs spayed or neutered at all ages and I have to say I prefer to have it done young, between 4 and 6 months. Temperament and health wise.

Yes if affects them but the pros far outweigh the cons, especially in America.

If you as a dog owner and can be absolutely SURE you can keep your dog from becoming pregnant or from impregnating another dog then by all means wait until its about a year or so but for 95% of people its not possible so I would rather risk some small complications that might never happen then adding to the pet population.


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

Purple Poodle said:


> Yes but dogs not are not human and its unfair to compare them to one another.
> 
> As I have stated before I have any many dogs spayed or neutered at all ages and I have to say I prefer to have it done young, between 4 and 6 months. Temperament and health wise.
> 
> ...


The thing is you have to weigh what is most important to you and how responsible of a person you are. If you feel you can be 100% responsible for a dog in heat then wait until the dog is over 1 if you feel it needs to be physically mature before getting spayed. Not everyone has the kind of time to commit to something like that so naturally spaying before a heat cycle is important.


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## taxtell (Sep 17, 2009)

I know people will disagree with my advice, but, this is what I was taught and believe:

It is actually healthier for your dog or cat never to experience a heat as it reduces the animal’s chance of getting mammary cancer and decreases the animal’s stress and risks due to pregnancy and delivery.

Now I know there are a lot of people on this forum that are very passionate about what they think is right, but after seeing one too many mammary tumor removal, I would spay my female before her first heat, without a doubt. And while the vet is in there, I'd have him tack the stomach.

Of course everyone has their own opinion, some of my clients are so ridiculously blind to fact they just follow whatever old fashioned advice some vet gave them 20 years ago. :rolffleyes:
I had one client lose her dog to mammary cancer (she spayed her at 5 years old due to pyometra, another reason to spay!), and still insisted on waiting for her new dog to go through 'a few heat cycles' before she spayed her.:doh:


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Yes- dogs are not humans - nobody ever made that comparative. I was referring to the animal physiology ( and we are animals too ). Removing ovaries or testicles before sexual maturity does alter development of any animal - human, dog, hen or a fish - period !!! 

Anybody who ever took any basic Physiology class would know that. 


NOT removing glands at all also increases chances of getting estrogen or testosterone induced cancers - breast and ovarian cancer in humans and ALL other mammals, testicular cancer in males.

It is absolutely advisable to "fix" animals once they finish development if one has no intention to breed them.


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## brittwink21 (Jan 3, 2010)

I also have been told by two different vets that you should not wait for a heat, that doing the neuter before hand reduces the risk of cancer a great deal and risks of other health issues. I have never heard anything about it stunting their growth that would suprise me. I am planning on getting my puppy spayed late this month when she will be 5 months, since some toys come in heat at 6 months...


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Yes - estrogen and progesterone long term exposure will increase incidence of mammary cancer by 8% ,but removal of the ovaries can increase risk of other health issues in your dog. 

Here is just one of the newest research papers "out there" 

http://www.gpmcf.org/respectovaries.html

As with any medical issues, we have to do our own "homework" and make the best decision we can. Same as not all doctors are at the "edge of the newest research" so are not all Vets either :rolffleyes: We always have to look at the whole picture and put % in perspective.


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