# Feedback on Sara Jane?



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I’m not particularly fond of the look of her dogs, but the fact that she doesn’t do traditional puppy grooms, even for puppies, make it hard to see the dogs’ features. I generally don’t have a good feeling about breeders who don’t take the time to get puppies used to being groomed at a very young age. Poodles need to tolerate grooming.

There is no mention of genetic testing either, and she seems to decide on the price of the puppy based on looks, which would be a red flag to me.

Unless there is something I’m missing, I would pass.


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## seadog (Nov 20, 2019)

Dechi said:


> I’m not particularly fond of the look of her dogs, but the fact that she doesn’t do traditional puppy grooms, even for puppies, make it hard to see the dogs’ features. I generally don’t have a good feeling about breeders who don’t take the time to get puppies used to being groomed at a very young age. Poodles need to tolerate grooming.
> 
> There is no mention of genetic testing either, and she seems to decide on the price of the puppy based on looks, which would be a red flag to me.
> 
> Unless there is something I’m missing, I would pass.


Great point Dechi! I appreciate your comment- I will make genetic testing and grooming in my future criteria.
Do you happen to know reliable breeders in the US west coast? We are looking for a toy poodle since we live in an apartment. I appreciate any lead!!
Best


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

I just wanted to say I had the same feeling regarding Sara Jane. She seems to use the term "Teddy Bear" like it's a variety of poodle, like a buzzword. I find that highly distasteful. It's a haircut. I'm not a fan of marketing dogs like they're stuffed animals.

But also it's hard to find things to criticize when there's not much info there. More the lack of info is concerning! There's some great info in these forums (see the pinned posts) about choosing a good breeder/puppy that should steer you in the right direction.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

seadog said:


> Do you happen to know reliable breeders in the US west coast?


Unfortunately I don’t, I’m from Canada. Have you used the search engine on the forum ?


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## seadog (Nov 20, 2019)

Thank you, Dech and Raindrops! It is quite a journey to find trustworthy breeders! 

I am getting more educated with the help of the forum - In the beginning, I was thinking about getting a puppy from PuppySpot.com, then learned about puppy mills and all the bad stories about online pet stores. It feels a bit daunting task, but I believe I am heading in the right direction!


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

seadog said:


> Thank you, Dech and Raindrops! It is quite a journey to find trustworthy breeders!
> 
> I am getting more educated with the help of the forum - In the beginning, I was thinking about getting a puppy from PuppySpot.com, then learned about puppy mills and all the bad stories about online pet stores. It feels a bit daunting task, but I believe I am heading in the right direction!


Good for you! I went through that same journey when I got my pup. There is nothing like a well bred dog from an ethical breeder that you know has done everything they can to ensure the best chance of your dog living a long and happy life with you. Even if you have to wait months and drive or fly to pick it up!


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Why not reach out to https://redstandardpoodles.net That is Arreau standard poodles perhaps they can helper guide you in the right direction.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I never hesitate to ask a good breeder if they have any recommendations. They may be extra competitive in the show ring, but those I’ve contacted have been generous with names of other breeders they admire. They may know who has a litter on the ground or even those contemplating a new litter. I’m glad you’ve concluded that a companion dog from a conformation line is the way to go. Don’t be discouraged if there’s a waiting list - people drop off for many reasons. Best wishes on your search.


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## seadog (Nov 20, 2019)

Thank you Mufar42 and Mfmst! I will go ahead and ask for breeder recommendations. I really appreciate generous help from everyone here!


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

I think you dodged a bullet, seadog  

I would look into Cindy Barker if you can travel to Utah. She has received the highest recommendations from one of my poodle friends for having beautiful dogs and having extremely high ethics. https://www.facebook.com/cynthia.p.barker.9

Also Martha at Custom Toy Poodles in Montana/TX comes very highly recommended by a friend who has two of her dogs. https://www.facebook.com/martha.carrolltalley


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## seadog (Nov 20, 2019)

MaizieFrosty said:


> I think you dodged a bullet, seadog
> 
> I would look into Cindy Barker if you can travel to Utah. She has received the highest recommendations from one of my poodle friends for having beautiful dogs and having extremely high ethics. https://www.facebook.com/cynthia.p.barker.9
> 
> Also Martha at Custom Toy Poodles in Montana/TX comes very highly recommended by a friend who has two of her dogs. https://www.facebook.com/martha.carrolltalley


Really appreciate getting some specific breeder recommendations, especially from your personal network MaizieFrosty!!! I will reach out to Cindy and Martha. Thank you very much!?


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Great! You are most welcome


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I am puzzled MaizieFrosty. I went to both of the sites you linked. Maybe I am missing something, but I do not see any information about health testing their poodles, or other recommended things to look for in an excellent breeder. Are there more official websites perhaps?


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

https://custompoodles.com/. This is the website for the second person MF recommended 

I couldn’t get her first link to work or find a website for Cindy Barker with poodles.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Skylar said:


> https://custompoodles.com/. This is the website for the second person MF recommended
> 
> I couldn’t get her first link to work or find a website for Cindy Barker with poodles.


And here's Cindy's poodle page. I found the link on her personal Facebook page. No mention (at a glance) what health testing she does, but that doesn't seem like a red flag to me. I'm sure there are lots of great breeders out there who rely on word of mouth rather than maintaining a detailed online presence. In fact, a slick website can in itself be a red flag.



https://m.facebook.com/ChevanneyPoodles/


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

seadog said:


> Hi, I am interested in some of the puppies posted to AKC by Sara Jane.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Too late, I'm sure, but I DO have feedback that I have acquired very recently. We learned the hard way--and after what happened to us, I found out that many people in our little town have been scammed by this so-called breeder. You may note that Sara Jane WILL NOT provide her last name, and that is b/c she does not want you to conduct an online search. But actually, she is Sara Werp and she is not trustworthy.


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## Joc (Sep 3, 2021)

Sara Jane is a dishonest woman who lies through her teeth and omits important information. She charged me $3800 for a toy poodle. At the last minute in the airport parking lot she told me the mother is 20% cavalier. The puppy came with a cough that is costing me a fortune to get healed. A month later she still has it.
I don’t think she is a breeder. I think she’s a broker. She couldn’t even tell me the puppy’s birthdate. She told me she was taking her to the vet a week before I got her and she didn’t. She said she’d bring the father and she didn’t. 
She said she’d have two sets of shots and she only had one.

Sara insisted I pay with PayPal friends and family so I would have no protection of my money. The name it went to was not Sara Jane. She told me the name was her dead sister’s name and she used it to remember her.

The picture she sent of the puppy as a baby wasn’t even the one she sold me. She said she’d be red, but she’s apricot.

this woman took advantage of me when I was grieving the loss of my one year old puppy. I could go on and on. She has no scruples. I highly discourage you from purchasing from her.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I am so sorry for your loss of your one year old puppy, and for what you and your current puppy are going thru. I hope your puppy regains full health and you both have happy lives together.


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

Joc said:


> Sara Jane is a dishonest woman who lies through her teeth and omits important information. She charged me $3800 for a toy poodle. At the last minute in the airport parking lot she told me the mother is 20% cavalier. The puppy came with a cough that is costing me a fortune to get healed. A month later she still has it.
> I don’t think she is a breeder. I think she’s a broker. She couldn’t even tell me the puppy’s birthdate. She told me she was taking her to the vet a week before I got her and she didn’t. She said she’d bring the father and she didn’t.
> She said she’d have two sets of shots and she only had one.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry! We had a terrible experience with this woman. Her real name is Sara Werp, but she has many aliases. (Who goes by just a first name in the first place--other than Prince or Cher? Someone who does not want to be researched online!! ) I live in Los Gatos, close to SJ, who lives in Campbell, and she has a horrible reputation. She has cheated and scammed so many people, and I have talked to many of them. I filled out paperwork for small claims court to get our $1200 deposit back. This was a deposit for a dog she claimed was a toy poodle (price $5400). As I thought about everything she told us at the one meeting we had, I got 'that feeling' in my stomach that Sara Jane was a fraud and the dog was NOT a toy poodle--and not a poodle at all. She did not answer my emails or phone calls asking the numerous questions I had. I knew she was trying to wait out 3 days we have to cancel a contract (I found out later that most of what she told us was untrue or was suspect). I cancelled he contract in writing the very next day. She tried to give me some non-sensical reasons for all the discrepancies in her claims to us. When I sent SJ the court paperwork for small claims, she quickly refunded our deposit. (Turns out, she has MANY other cases that have been filed against her.) We were lucky! We got out before we took the puppy home and became attached to him. Another woman I spoke to bought a dog for her mother from SJ believing it was a purebred poodle. As the dog grew up, it was clear the dog was not pure poodle so they had it DNA tested and found it was 50% Australian Shepherd! Can you imagine the energy level and size of that puppy for a senior citizen-age person? This woman's mother was heartbroken and could not bear to part with the puppy b/c she was attached to it emotionally, but she got most of her money back after filling out the court papers. I could go on and on. I have reported SJ to every agency I can think of. Yet the AKC website still allows her to advertise, even though there are examples on their website of SJ alleging the same parent for a toy poodle and a standard poodle. How flagrant! There are so many sad stories about the fraud SJ has perpetrated. If you search up her name on this forum (or my name) you will see many complaints. I posted our sad, horrible experience --and I have persuaded several people from this forum and locally NOT to deal with her. MY ADVICE - Fill out the small claims paperwork for Santa Clara County and send it to her. (The paperwork is not hard to fill out.) I think she may refund a good portion of your money--and some more for your vet bills. It will not cure your puppy's kennel cough, but you may be able to recover some costs. If you need more information about this woman, please let me know.


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

Los Gatoan said:


> I'm so sorry! We had a terrible experience with this woman. Her real name is Sara Werp, but she has many aliases. (Who goes by just a first name in the first place--other than Prince or Cher? Someone who does not want to be researched online!! ) I live in Los Gatos, close to SJ, who lives in Campbell, and she has a horrible reputation. She has cheated and scammed so many people, and I have talked to many of them. I filled out paperwork for small claims court to get our $1200 deposit back. This was a deposit for a dog she claimed was a toy poodle (price $5400). As I thought about everything she told us at the one meeting we had, I got 'that feeling' in my stomach that Sara Jane was a fraud and the dog was NOT a toy poodle--and not a poodle at all. She did not answer my emails or phone calls asking the numerous questions I had. I knew she was trying to wait out 3 days we have to cancel a contract (I found out later that most of what she told us was untrue or was suspect). I cancelled he contract in writing the very next day. She tried to give me some non-sensical reasons for all the discrepancies in her claims to us. When I sent SJ the court paperwork for small claims, she quickly refunded our deposit. (Turns out, she has MANY other cases that have been filed against her.) We were lucky! We got out before we took the puppy home and became attached to him. Another woman I spoke to bought a dog for her mother from SJ believing it was a purebred poodle. As the dog grew up, it was clear the dog was not pure poodle so they had it DNA tested and found it was 50% Australian Shepherd! Can you imagine the energy level and size of that puppy for a senior citizen-age person? This woman's mother was heartbroken and could not bear to part with the puppy b/c she was attached to it emotionally, but she got most of her money back after filling out the court papers. I could go on and on. I have reported SJ to every agency I can think of. Yet the AKC website still allows her to advertise, even though there are examples on their website of SJ alleging the same parent for a toy poodle and a standard poodle. How flagrant! There are so many sad stories about the fraud SJ has perpetrated. If you search up her name on this forum (or my name) you will see many complaints. I posted our sad, horrible experience --and I have persuaded several people from this forum and locally NOT to deal with her. MY ADVICE - Fill out the small claims paperwork for Santa Clara County and send it to her. (The paperwork is not hard to fill out.) I think she may refund a good portion of your money--and some more for your vet bills. It will not cure your puppy's kennel cough, but you may be able to recover some costs. If you need more information about this woman, please let me know.



BTW - We DID find a tremendous breeder through this forum. Gail Zamora in Grass Valley, CA poodletoy.com We got one red female puppy and went back 6 weeks later and got a red male companion for her! It is a ton of work, but we could not be happier. Gail is a real breeder. She has been doing this for 40 years and she knows what she is doing. Her dogs are incredible in terms of temperament.


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## Joc (Sep 3, 2021)

Thank you! I will do as you say. I was thinking I should get a lawyer, but maybe I can just do this myself. I appreciate your information. 
I also sent an email to American Kennel Marketplace and haven’t received a response. Thank you.


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

I don't think the AKC Marketplace will respond. They did not respond to me. I think anyone who is willing to pay the listing fee can place an ad, and can claim whatever they want.

I got the idea to file a small claims case from one of the other people Sara Jane scammed who lives here in town. That person told me that SJ refunded their $ as soon as they sent her the court paperwork. (To be clear, Santa Clara County Small Claims Court requires that you send the defendant your claim BEFORE submitting it to the court.) I feel confident that you will get your $ back. I am pretty sure she does not want another small claims case. Be sure to make copies of all expenses, vet bills, any paperwork she sent you....

When we met Sara Jane, we put a deposit on a male puppy, and we told her we wanted another puppy--a female-- in the near future. She offered us a female Cavapoo on the spot, stating that the mother was a Cavalier and the father was a poodle. She said she had 2 female pups that would be old enough to go home in 3-4 wks. (That was May 30, 2021.) When did you get your pup? I am wondering if you have one of those pups? 

Here is another bizarre thing - When we looked at the litter of pups, SJ would not allow us to see the mother of the litter, telling us that the mother would be sad if she knew we were looking at her pups. (I was paying $5400 for a pup and I wanted to see the parents.) So I asked to see the mother away from the pups, and SJ immediately said the mother was 'not on the premises.' She claimed the father was "Miles," a large, miniature male that was running around with the pups. This was the name of the dog listed as sire in the AKC ad, so I believed he was the father of this litter. (Later SJ claimed that he was not the father.) We became concerned that the six-week old pup we were contracting to buy was not a toy poodle. At 6-weeks, the pup seemed large for a toy, and I became more concerned when I saw how large the father was. 

Another red flag was that Sara Jane gave us a contract that listed her as the breeder and the contract specified only her first name. After I signed the contract, she took the paper and pretended to sign it. Then she asked me to scan the contract with my phone "so you will have a copy." Weirdly unprofessional, I thought! However, I did not notice at the time, but SJ never actually signed the contract. Apparently, she is savvy enough as a scam artist that she knew better than to sign her name to the fraud she was perpetrating.

Again, I am so sorry for your trauma and heartache. It sounds like you are from out of town. If I can help you in any way, please let me know.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

The only requirements to advertise on the AKC Marketplace are that the breeder not have their AKC privileges suspended or revoked, and that the dogs advertised be eligible for AKC registration or already registered. You will find everyone from "high volume breeders" to casual backyard breeders to to parent club members advertising there.


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

Well, how on earth does a breeder lose AKC privileges? Sara Jane Werp is a scammer who never should have had AKC privileges in the first place. She has sold dogs as AKC purebred when those dogs were DNA tested and proven to be of mixed breeds.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I am so sorry to hear these stories. There are many recommendations and excellent breeders listed on Poodle Forum. I am forever puzzled that people do not use those to find their poodle. I hope that others who are looking for an excellent poodle of any size will read follow the recommendations and read this entire thread:
🐩 Breeders Listed by Location 🐩 Plus Additional Resources 🐩


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

When we were scammed by Sara Jane, I did not know about Poodle Forum. Stupidly, I thought the AKC website would vet their members / those who advertise. It was only after being scammed twice--once by a 'rescue' in Orange County, and a second time by Sara Jane--that I found Poodle Forum and a member (Baby Scout) pointed us to Gail Zamora in Grass Valley.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

Los Gatoan said:


> Well, how on earth does a breeder lose AKC privileges? Sara Jane Werp is a scammer who never should have had AKC privileges in the first place. She has sold dogs as AKC purebred when those dogs were DNA tested and proven to be of mixed breeds.


Were the results submitted to the AKC? 

Most suspensions are three months to five years, depending on what the violations are. To get suspended for life usually takes a felony animal cruelty conviction. 

From various editions of the AKC Secretary's page:

The AKC’s Management Disciplinary Committee has suspended Ms. Christy Cunningham (Monroe, VA) from all AKC privileges for five years and imposed a $1,000 fine for refusing to make her dogs and records available for inspection when requested. (Multiple Breeds)

The AKC’s Management Disciplinary Committee has suspended Ms. Linda Johns (Wellington, NV) from registration privileges for one year and imposed a $1,000 fine, effective April 15, 2020, for the submission of an online registration of a litter on behalf of the co-owner without written permission. (Chihuahuas) 

The AKC’s Management Disciplinary Committee has suspended the following individuals from all AKC privileges for life and imposed a $10,000 fine, for conduct prejudicial to purebred dogs, purebred dog events, or the best interests of the American Kennel Club based on their violation of the AKC’s Judicial or Administrative Determination of Inappropriate Treatment Policy: Effective July 12, 2021: Mr. Barry Freidline (New Oxford, PA) Multiple Breeds Ms. Deborah Freidline (New Oxford, PA) Multiple Breeds Ms. Wanda Watson (Bredford, NH) Golden Retrievers, Labrador Retrievers 

The Management Disciplinary Committee has suspended Ms. Cathy Lewandowski (Croghan, NY) from all AKC privileges for three years and imposed a $1000 fine, effective July 9, 2019, for creation, falsification or alteration of an official AKC document. (Multiple Breeds)


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

I wrote to AKC when we were scammed--NOTHING! No response. I live in the same area as Sara Jane and when I suspected she was a con artist, I reached out on Next Door (a neighborhood website) and asked for people to contact me privately. The replies came pouring in--and everyone had a heartbreaking story, not dissimilar to what we were experiencing. That is when I knew my 'gut feelings' were accurate, so I cancelled our contract in writing and started the small claims paperwork. 

After our deposit was returned and I had recovered emotionally, I dug through AKC Marketplace and found numerous ads Sara Jane had placed for puppies--many ads had the same pictures as well as the same sire or dam listed FOR TEACUP AND STANDARD POODLES. (Even I knew that a dog that sired a teacup could not sire a standard poodle.) This was all sent to the AKC and they never responded. In fact, Rose n Poos, another member of this forum, also found Sara Jane's bogus ads on AKC Marketplace. If Rose n Poos and I can find scam ads without looking too hard, why can't AKC? Isn't that their job? 

I will send my info. again--and I will urge Joc to do the same. But frankly, how many people have to be scammed before AKC takes action. Joc stated that Sara Jane admitted that the mother of the puppy is 20% Cavalier. Again, I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure that renders the dog to be a mixed breed. Isn't that a violation of AKC policy???


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## babyscout (Feb 28, 2021)

Im so sorry for everything you’re having to go through. 😭 Los Gatoan went through a lot as well 😭 I don’t know how much akc really vets the listings. When I was deciding where to get a puppy from, I went through all the akc listings. The buyers from one of the breeders seems to have similar issues like what people here describe with Sara Jane. When I actually went through the Yelp and Google comments for “karina” listing on akc some said that puppies don’t come with papers and are also not purebred but sold as they are. (I don’t have any evidence of this or know anyone who has purchased from this breeder, but that is what some of the reviews imply).

I had a great experience with Gail.

I hope your little one is ok...


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

Joc said:


> Thank you! I will do as you say. I was thinking I should get a lawyer, but maybe I can just do this myself. I appreciate your information.
> I also sent an email to American Kennel Marketplace and haven’t received a response. Thank you.


Hi Joc - 
I spoke to someone at AKC today. Her name is Mary Johnson ([email protected]). She listened to my story, as well as the stories of others I have talked to in our town. She looked at the bogus AKC Marketplace ads placed by Sara Jane, and she promised to send the ads to her supervisor. 

She also asked that all other people who have been scammed by Sara Jane contact AKC. If Sara sold you a dog that is not a purebred poodle, Mary Johnson asked that you send pictures of your dog (front view and side view) to impure [email protected]. (For some reason, the AKC puts more by legitimacy in their visual inspection of photos than they do in DNA testing?) Or feel free to contact Mary Johnson at her email address listed above. 

My purpose in tracking down all people scammed by Sara Jane is to ask them to submit their stories and evidence to AKC so they will ban SJ from advertising on their website. She does not have the right to hurt and scam people.

Thank you
Karee Weber


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Never, NEVER, believe in a membership in anything to show that one is a valid worthwhile member! Anything! Any Forum, Any Organization, the Stock Exchange, any club / organization / business. I am so sorry you had to find out the hard way.


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## elove (Sep 27, 2021)

Los Gatoan said:


> Hi Joc -
> I spoke to someone at AKC today. Her name is Mary Johnson ([email protected]). She listened to my story, as well as the stories of others I have talked to in our town. She looked at the bogus AKC Marketplace ads placed by Sara Jane, and she promised to send the ads to her supervisor.
> 
> She also asked that all other people who have been scammed by Sara Jane contact AKC. If Sara sold you a dog that is not a purebred poodle, Mary Johnson asked that you send pictures of your dog (front view and side view) to impure [email protected]. (For some reason, the AKC puts more by legitimacy in their visual inspection of photos than they do in DNA testing?) Or feel free to contact Mary Johnson at her email address listed above.
> ...




I was trying to message you back but it says as a new user I have reached my limit on responding.


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

elove said:


> I was trying to message you back but it says as a new user I have reached my limit on responding.


I'm not sure what that means?? I'm very new to this forum ...I will try to send you a private message with contact info


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Los Gatoan said:


> I'm not sure what that means?? I'm very new to this forum ...I will try to send you a private message with contact info


Messaging capabilities are limited for new members, to prevent spam. Should work fine if you initiate the conversation.


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

I think/hope🤞 I did it correctly to send my email address.


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

Joc said:


> Thank you! I will do as you say. I was thinking I should get a lawyer, but maybe I can just do this myself. I appreciate your information.
> I also sent an email to American Kennel Marketplace and haven’t received a response. Thank you.


Joc - Have you reported your experience to AKC? I pestered the AKC with phone calls and emails and finally received a response. Despite her blatantly fraudulent Marketplace ads that lists the same parent and AKC registration number for a toy poodle and a standard, the AKC is still reticent to take any steps to sanction or refuse Sara Jane's ads from Marketplace because we did not follow through with the purchase of the puppy. 

Yet many people are finding Sara Jane Werp through her bogus Marketplace ads and these people end up being scammed. *The AKC needs to get a spine,* and they need to hear from everyone who has been scammed. The AKC asks that you send 2 photos of your dog (side view and front view) to impure [email protected].

Thank you


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## Stef_Tastico (Dec 9, 2021)

Los Gatoan said:


> Joc - Have you reported your experience to AKC? I pestered the AKC with phone calls and emails and finally received a response. Despite her blatantly fraudulent Marketplace ads that lists the same parent and AKC registration number for a toy poodle and a standard, the AKC is still reticent to take any steps to sanction or refuse Sara Jane's ads from Marketplace because we did not follow through with the purchase of the puppy.
> 
> Yet many people are finding Sara Jane Werp through her bogus Marketplace ads and these people end up being scammed. *The AKC needs to get a spine,* and they need to hear from everyone who has been scammed. The AKC asks that you send 2 photos of your dog (side view and front view) to impure [email protected].
> 
> Thank you


Los Gatoan - I wish I would have seen this before I sent my deposit today. I am heart sick and do not know what to do. I sent the deposit and now am barely getting responses from her, to be fair she was responding after I sent the money and we spoke on the phone at length but I am getting nervous that the puppy I requested isnt a teacup after all and I can't have a big dog where I live. Any tips - do you think I should cancel and try for small claims? how does one even go about that? any advice you can give me is greatly appreciated  Stefanie


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Hi and Welcome to PF!

Until Los Gatoan responds, I hope you don't mind a couple of questions. 

What is the size/weight limit you're constrained by? (the conversation about the marketing term "teacup" is for another thread).
I ask that because no breeder can guarantee height or weight of any dog they breed. The parents, if you saw them, are an indicator, but there's generations behind them. Genetics is a dice roll in some instances. 

Re your concern about the deposit, was it in a form that you can cancel/stop payment on, if that's what you're sure you want to do?


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Stef, I'm so sorry. I hope everything turns out ok for you and the pup.


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## babyscout (Feb 28, 2021)

Stef_Tastico said:


> Los Gatoan - I wish I would have seen this before I sent my deposit today. I am heart sick and do not know what to do. I sent the deposit and now am barely getting responses from her, to be fair she was responding after I sent the money and we spoke on the phone at length but I am getting nervous that the puppy I requested isnt a teacup after all and I can't have a big dog where I live. Any tips - do you think I should cancel and try for small claims? how does one even go about that? any advice you can give me is greatly appreciated  Stefanie


So sorry 😢


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

Stef_Tastico said:


> Los Gatoan - I wish I would have seen this before I sent my deposit today. I am heart sick and do not know what to do. I sent the deposit and now am barely getting responses from her, to be fair she was responding after I sent the money and we spoke on the phone at length but I am getting nervous that the puppy I requested isnt a teacup after all and I can't have a big dog where I live. Any tips - do you think I should cancel and try for small claims? how does one even go about that? any advice you can give me is greatly appreciated  Stefanie


Stephanie- I have written about our bad experience —and the unfortunate experience of others in our town so many times. It’s hard to believe this horrible woman is still trying to scam people. If you have misgivings about a puppy, cancel the contract in writing within 3 days and in your written communication request your deposit back. If you don’t get a check in a week, start the small claims paperwork. When she receives your demand letter (the first part of the small claims process) she will comply. That has been her pattern. 

IMO, Sara Werp does not have “teacup” poodles. If you have a size requirement, my advice would be to RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN. Look at the dogs she claims to be the dam and sire. She uses the same dogs names andAKC registry as being parents for standard poodles and for toy poodles. Please let me know if you have any questions. I’ll help in any way I can.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

And run from any breeder offering "teacup" poodles. A breeder using that term doesn't seem to know or care about the poodle breed. 

It sounds like researching and selecting a quality, conscientious breeder might be new for you so here's some tips. 

*We often hear from folks that they just want a pet.* What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that the kind of quality, conscientious breeders many of us prefer to support are _always_ breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions, but are flawless to us .

*It's not unusual to think that there are possibly thousands of breeders to choose from*. For quality, conscientious breeders, that number is more likely only in the hundreds in the US or Canada. A bottom line difference is between those who're breeding primarily for profit and those who're breeding because they feel not only love for poodles but an obligation to the entire breed. Each of their, usually infrequent, breedings are thoughtfully chosen to try to improve something in their lines and consequently the future of the breed.

*About reviews,* a happy owner doesn't necessarily mean an informed owner. It's as likely they've just been lucky, so far. Review any negative comments carefully, if they're allowed to appear.

*Getting a puppy from a quality, conscientious breeder is something like insurance*. Their investment in the health, welfare, and soundness of all the dogs in their care including the puppies they offer to new homes is part of the reason you're not likely to find a less than $2000 USD puppy from them.

The saying is "pay the breeder or pay the vet". Price alone isn't the only thing to separate quality breeders from those less than. We've seen members quote as high, and even much higher pricing for pups from parents not health tested, not proven to meet breed standards, sold as purebred when only a DNA test could determine that since they may be sold without registration papers.

If I knew the risks and have dedicated poodle health savings of several thousand dollars or pet insurance, knew that basically that the breeder and I would part ways as soon as the pup was in my hands because they're very unlikely to stand behind their pup and me thru the pups life, I might proceed with a breeder that doesn't meet my criteria.

But

I also wouldn't pay quality breeder prices, and over, unless I'm getting all the quality breeder perks.


*Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder.* The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

*Look for and verify OFA/CHIC level testing at a minimum.*
There are also poodle specific DNA panels for other testable genetic conditions.
Those are companion tests with the OFA/CHIC testing, not in place of.

CHIC Program | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

Browse By Breed | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

POODLE, TOY

*Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)*
DNA-based test from an approved laboratory; results registered with OFA ➚
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Patellar Luxation*
OFA Evaluation, minimum age 1 year ➚

Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

If a breeder sounds puzzled when you mention OFA, I recommend moving on. 


*A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much to back it if *the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

*Read thru any contracts that may be listed. *If they rule out coverage for conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?

*Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times* and with pandemic puppy seekers, that wait is stretched well into 2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs, 9-5 paying job, and family, rather than keep a website updated.

*When you start making contacts, *let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.

*Color preferences are understandable but* keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies.
That beautiful color you fell for may not look the same in a few weeks, or months, or years. Most poodle colors fade.

*Gender preferences* will also limit your options.

*Temperament and personality* are lifelong traits.

*Be prepared to spend *in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

*Be prepared to travel *outside your preferred area.

*As a very general rule, websites to be leery of* are those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience".

*Be wary of a breeder who sells a puppy with full registration rights (breeding rights which allow pups to be registered with the AKC) simply for the price of admission.* A responsible breeder will not allow their reputation and their poodles to be bred by anyone, to any dog, without having a contractual say in the breeding and the pups. They will want to be involved.

*Avoid broker sites*. Conscientious breeders would simply not use brokers.

*Be wary of breeders using trendy, marketing *terms such as "teacup", "tiny", "royal", giant" and/or charging more for certain colors, sizes, or gender.

In the US, the official breed standard has three varieties of poodles, toy, miniature and standard. Toys are up to 10" at the shoulder with good breeders shooting for the upper end, Weight figures in only as healthy weight for the height. Poodles aren't meant to be teacup sized or giant sized and breeding for size first ignores the potentially serious complications that come with that.

*One additional caution, be very wary of those very cute short legged poodles.* That's a genetic mutation which may carry serious life-altering disease.

*An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. *An online search for "Poodle Club of *___* (your city or state/province)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.
PCA National Breeder Referral - The Poodle Club of America
Search for Local Clubs/Breeders - The Poodle Club of America

*As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, this is my shortlist criteria.*

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come.
Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is _well bred._


*Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time *

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards physically and temperamentally, and are sound by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> And run from any breeder offering "teacup" poodles. A breeder using that term doesn't seem to know or care about the poodle breed.
> 
> It sounds like researching and selecting a quality, conscientious breeder might be new for you so here's some tips.
> 
> ...


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

Stef - Rose N Poos knows a lot more about breeders than I do. Take his/ her advice. RUN! 

When we put a deposit on a puppy from Sara Jane, the price for the dog was $5400. I took several pictures of that puppy, and in retrospect, we now believe that puppy to be a mixed breed (Cavapoo). We also learned that SJ's prices are at the very high end for a pet-quality toy poodle (not a show dog)--However, $5400 is absolutely criminal for a mixed breed dog. 

We did find a very good breeder on this forum. Her name is Gail Zamora (http://poodletoy.com) and her email is [email protected] . She is in in Grass Valley, CA. Gail has been breeding toy poodles for at least 30 years and she knows what she is doing. We have two of her pups, a female and a male. They are 9 and 10 months old, are very healthy and have the best temperaments. I know a couple other people who have Gail's pups and they are wonderful dogs. I would highly recommend looking at Gail's pups.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Los Gatoan said:


> Stef - Rose N Poos knows a lot more about breeders than I do. Take his/ her advice. RUN!
> 
> When we put a deposit on a puppy from Sara Jane, the price for the dog was $5400. I took several pictures of that puppy, and in retrospect, we now believe that puppy to be a mixed breed (Cavapoo). We also learned that SJ's prices are at the very high end for a pet-quality toy poodle (not a show dog)--However, $5400 is absolutely criminal for a mixed breed dog.
> 
> We did find a very good breeder on this forum. Her name is Gail Zamora (http://poodletoy.com) and her email is [email protected] . She is in in Grass Valley, CA. Gail has been breeding toy poodles for at least 30 years and she knows what she is doing. We have two of her pups, a female and a male. They are 9 and 10 months old, are very healthy and have the best temperaments. I know a couple other people who have Gail's pups and they are wonderful dogs. I would highly recommend looking at Gail's pups.


I will second the recommendation for Gail Zamora. And I thoroughly agree that Sara Jane is very, very dishonest. Most reputable breeders charge $2500 to $3000 for a puppy. Very few, if any, reputable breeders are likely to promise that a puppy will turn out to be show quality. On the other hand, there are some traits that are present in a puppy that clearly make it a pet quality dog, such as not being a solid color or having very light eyes.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Los Gatoan said:


> Rose N Poos knows a lot more about breeders than I do


Thanks for the confidence . Some of what I know is thru my own experiences, but the vast majority is from reading old and new threads here at PF with particular focus on those posts from our breeder/members, Johanna being one of them, and follow up research I've done out in the wild. I collect information and then hope to pass it on .


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## babyscout (Feb 28, 2021)

Johanna said:


> I will second the recommendation for Gail Zamora. And I thoroughly agree that Sara Jane is very, very dishonest. Most reputable breeders charge $2500 to $3000 for a puppy. Very few, if any, reputable breeders are likely to promise that a puppy will turn out to be show quality. On the other hand, there are some traits that are present in a puppy that clearly make it a pet quality dog, such as not being a solid color or having very light eyes.


I got my babies from Gail. She is honest and I would go to her again in a heartbeat!


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Babyscout, those two are just charming! They are what I expect to see in a toy poodle. I love their little shoe-button noses!


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## Stef_Tastico (Dec 9, 2021)

Los Gatoan said:


> Stephanie- I have written about our bad experience —and the unfortunate experience of others in our town so many times. It’s hard to believe this horrible woman is still trying to scam people. If you have misgivings about a puppy, cancel the contract in writing within 3 days and in your written communication request your deposit back. If you don’t get a check in a week, start the small claims paperwork. When she receives your demand letter (the first part of the small claims process) she will comply. That has been her pattern.
> 
> IMO, Sara Werp does not have “teacup” poodles. If you have a size requirement, my advice would be to RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN. Look at the dogs she claims to be the dam and sire. She uses the same dogs names andAKC registry as being parents for standard poodles and for toy poodles. Please let me know if you have any questions. I’ll help in any way I can.


Thank you for your response I did not see it until now (just sent you another message before seeing this). I am ready to start the cancelling but I havent gotten the contract (she claims she sent it and it must be in my junk email) - I dont have an address either. But I will wait for the contract first because hopefully she will provide an address there. I can't thank you enough for your response and help. I am just heartbroken. and I feel so stupid.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Please don't berate yourself.
I love this from Maya Angelou:
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”


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## Stef_Tastico (Dec 9, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> Please don't berate yourself.
> I love this from Maya Angelou:
> “Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”


thank you Rose n Poos - your posts are so helpful. 

Just in case Sara Jane ends up not sending me the contract, does anyone here know of her address so I can proceed with small claims to get my deposit back?


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## babyscout (Feb 28, 2021)

Johanna said:


> Babyscout, those two are just charming! They are what I expect to see in a toy poodle. I love their little shoe-button noses!


Thank you!!! I love them so much . 
They are thick as thieves these two....

I would echo what others here have said-- please do not blame yourself, Sara Jane is a predator. She has so many ads on AKC and it's really hard to know who to trust these days.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I am so sorry to read about this Sara Jane, take double the price and run dealer. I do agree that the AKC needs to grow a spine, enact more punitive monetary sanctions and bans on these types of cases. I have read from our European members that the AKC is considered a joke. They take their fees and look the other way, at high volume mills, yada yada.


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

Stef_Tastico said:


> Thank you for your response I did not see it until now (just sent you another message before seeing this). I am ready to start the cancelling but I havent gotten the contract (she claims she sent it and it must be in my junk email) - I dont have an address either. But I will wait for the contract first because hopefully she will provide an address there. I can't thank you enough for your response and help. I am just heartbroken. and I feel so stupid.
> 
> 
> You are no more stupid than I am. At least we figured out that she was a scammer BEFORE we took one of her puppies. She scammed dozens of other people who did not figure out that their dogs were not as promised until AFTER the pups grew up.
> ...


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## ktmily (2 mo ago)

Stef,

Were you able to get your deposit back? I’m experiencing the same thing. I’m so bummed to read all these horror stories.


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## ktmily (2 mo ago)

Stef


Stef_Tastico said:


> Thank you for your response I did not see it until now (just sent you another message before seeing this). I am ready to start the cancelling but I havent gotten the contract (she claims she sent it and it must be in my junk email) - I dont have an address either. But I will wait for the contract first because hopefully she will provide an address there. I can't thank you enough for your response and help. I am just heartbroken. and I feel so stupid.


Stef,

Were you able to get your deposit back? I’m experiencing the same thing. I’m so bummed to read all these horror stories.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

ktmily said:


> Stef
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi there. Welcome to Poodle Forum. 
It looks like the poster you're reaching out to hasn't posted since this thread, which was some time ago now. You may be better off introducing yourself in a new thread so we can offer our support and get to know you.


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## TrishyS (18 d ago)

I wanted to add here and give my experience with her. Thanks to this forum I was saved from being scammed. I found her on akc. She told me she had toy phantom poodles… I was sent photos and videos and she posted photos of her “toy phantom poodles” the puppies were to be ready Dec 28,2022 and let me just say she could not care less who I was or where this puppy was going. She did not have any real info and I started to get messages from a second number with an 831 area code. All her neuroscience and imprinting talk is not true she does not have the puppies with her. As someone else said she is a broker, really a full on scam, because you aren’t being sold what u paid for, u may get a puppy, but not the puppy you think. Which would be like finally buying the Mercedes Benz of your dreams and then receiving Nissan Versa. Sure you may not be empty handed but it’s just not what u bought. The photos she posted on her ig and messaged me are actually photos from another website/breeder silveracepoodles. And silver ace poodles is in Sacramento area not in Los Gatos. But further, silver ace states the phantom litter are actually mini poodles… they are not toys at all. I’m sure Sara Jane has sold these puppies to unwitting family’s for Christmas as rare color toy poodles. Sara Jane wanted $800 deposit via Zelle and total of $3800 due at pickup.
The same puppies on silverace are $2500.
If all that was not bad enough she then posted on her Instagram videos and photos of her “toy phantom poodles” and I’m quite sure it’s a Yorkie or Yorkiepoo
The ears give it away. So she advertises toy phantom poodles but they are actually minis poodles or Yorkie mixes. I’m not sure what would it ultimately would be. I have written the akc and I’ve even reported her Instagram as scam/fraud. Im not sure If silver ace poodles is in on this with her, I’d venture to say they are also questionable, if they use a broker is it a glorified puppy mill? I mean do reputable breeders use brokers? I was being told the puppies were central coast poodles not silver ace poodles but then again the lies are too many to count.
im Attaching photos from her Instagram to show u the puppy she is claiming to be a rare phantom toy poodle. That is a Yorkie right? Yorkies are not rare, nor are they a poodle. What do you all consider silver ace poodles to be? If they knowingly use Sara Jane?

was interested in what everyone thinks?


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

Trishy, thank heavens you figured it out! In May 2021, we gave Sara Jane a $1500 deposit for a toy poodle priced at $5800. Yes, that is high, I know. We went and picked our puppy, and I noticed his coat was brown and hair was tipped in reddish gold. He was darling but at 10 weeks he was big--almost 7 lbs. I questioned whether the pups were toy poodles, b/c we really did not want a larger dog. We saw the father, who was clearly a miniature. When we asked to see the mother she said the mother was not on sight b/c she get really sad to see her puppies go. That sounded so bizarre to me. The size and weigh standards Sara Jane quoted for toy poodles turned out to be incorrect. When we got home I started thinking about all the aspects of what she told us that did not make sense. I told my husband that this did not feel right and I explained all the reasons. He agreed, but we wanted to believe Sara Jane.b/c we were so wounded b/c we had just been scammed by a rescue in Orange County and we really wanted a small puppy. 

In retrospect, everything Sara Jane told us was a lie. We live in Los Gatos, which is where she claimed to live, but her address was really Campbell. When I started to research her on our local Next Door, I had 5 personal messages from people who had also been scammed. These people had all taken the puppies and then found out as the pup grew up that it was not a poodle and was MUCH bigger than expected. Three of these people had their dogs DNA tested at UC Davis and the dogs were part poodle and other breeds--Cavalier Spaniel, Australian shepherd. I believe the puppy we picked was a Cavapoo. (When I told Sara Jane that we needed a very small dog, she offered us a Cavapoo puppy b/c she had partial ownership in a Cavalier that was going to have puppies in 6 more weeks. She said this Cavalier was mated to the miniature poodle we saw. I think she breeds her miniature poodle to other breeds and then sells the pups as pure bred poodles.) I know SJ falsifies the parentage on the pedigree papers she gives people. Someone else on this forum actually proved that from her AKC ads.

So yes, Sara Jane has scammed many people who found her on the AKC website, BUT WE MUST ALSO BLAME THE AKC FOR ALLOWING HER TO ADVERTISE ON THEIR WEBSITE. I wrote a formal complaint and spoke directly to AKC administration about how Sara Jane almost scammed us and how so many people in our area have been scammed. GET THIS- AKC doesn't care. First, they do no accept DNA testing as proof of pedigree. They want to see pictures of the dog--then their experts judge the dog based on those pictures. I sent them pictures of the puppy we chose and three other people SJ scammed also sent pictures --and their DNA reports. I am not a dog expert but even I can tell the other three dogs are definitely not poodles. Still the AKC did nothing! Bottom line, the AKC wants the revenue from the ads.

GOOD NEWS - Through this Forum we found Gail Zamora in Grass Valley. She has been breeding and showing toy poodles for 35 years. We now have two toy poodles from Gail--and they are wonderful dogs. BTW- our female weighs 7 lbs and our male weighs 8 lbs.-exactly what Gail predicted. I cannot recommend Gail Zamora highly enough.


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## TrishyS (18 d ago)

I’m in campbell so I initially thought how lucky to have someone close enough that I could go see the puppies/parents before committing to give a deposit on Zelle to make sure I wasn’t paying an internet scam. I mean if I’m that close why not go see the parents and pups in person and then I’ll hand her the cash. She was telling me she handled the puppies daily doing this imprinting and massage neuroscience so surely the puppies would be at her house. But something felt off. The messages sounded copy and pasted. One phone number didn’t know what the other phone number was saying. I had no luck when I searched centralcoastpoodles so I thought I’d try searching Sara Jane poodles and this forum came up and thank goodness it did.
Now I have a bunch of resources for my poodle future.

thanks to people like yourself posting, I was spared. I figured the more voices the better. so Ive added mine.
I will find the right pup it’ll just take awhile which is ok. I went into this prepared to be on a waitlist 
Happy holidays everyone


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Welcome @TrishyS. So glad you didn't get scammed! 
Please feel free to stay in touch here as there are great poodle people here just itching to share their knowledge. Ask away! Any questions at all!


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I would die for a Clarion puppy. Lots of fantastic breeders in California. Best wishes on your search.


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## BBVidya (6 mo ago)

I have a friend who breeds white & black and white and blue parti poodles from health tested parents but doesn’t show her dogs; puppies come with worming, shots, and are groomed and used to it. If a dog doesn’t fit for whatever reason, or no, she takes it back, refunds money and rehomes it. I other words, she stands behind every poodle she breeds.
I don’t want to violate any rules, but if you pm me I tell you how to contact this lady. She is in Louisiana. She caters to those who want a healthy pet, not a show dog and her prices are reasonable. 

When I fell and broke my arm terribly she came several times and groomed my dog when I could not. And refused to take a dime. 

And I bought my dog from Bijou Poodles in Ontario, because she does everything with her dogs and also because she has many that live as special needs service dogs and therapy dogs. She is also very helpful and responsive, despite her busy schedule.


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