# Stomach tack, neuter, and shark teeth surgery?



## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Links to two articles.





AKC Canine Health Foundation | Health Implications in Early Spay and Neuter in Dogs







www.akcchf.org









Data on the consequences of early sterilization continues to mount


Two new studies found that heavier dogs have higher health risks if spayed or neutered too early.




www.aaha.org


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

I would say that neutering that early really wouldn't be great for the dog structurally. Given that he is on trajectory to be larger than 75lb it is even more essential that his growth plates close properly than most standards.

I know that every time a dog goes under anesthesia there is risk, but if it were my dog I would do the teeth and the neuter/tacking separately and the appropriate age (or consider not neutering at all if I had the option). I'm also uncomfortable with the risks of a prolonged anaesthesia to complete multiple procedures even if multiple vets could work at the same time. I'm no expert but I would think it would be better the procedures have their own space/time in case of unforseen challenges. There are those with more expertise that may disagree, hopefully they chime in.

But we will be here for you regardless of what you choose.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I am not so sure that I think one longer anesthesia doesn't have elevated risks compared to two shorter ones. More importantly I hope you realize that a gastropexy does not prevent bloat. The real benefit of it is in preventing torsion. Pexied dogs can still bloat. My dogs are not tacked, nor was our GSD. Additionally our two male dogs are (were) intact. For male dogs the evidence of health benefits from desexing are less clear cut than for females. My girl is spayed.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

I would worry about the teeth if you need to (it’s so early still!), and then worry about the gastropexy and neuter when he is done growing at 1.5 to 2 years old. Bloat and torsion is mostly seen on older dogs, from my reading (someone please correct me if that’s incorrect!)

Are you encouraging him to chew and play tug?


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

Are you jumping the gun on surgery?

Basil had a stubborn tooth that didn't want to come out so checked with the vet and I let her mouth as many shapes items as possible like a bully sticks, yak chews, and rope toys to try and loosen it... Finally it came out.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Peggy had two retained baby teeth. Our trainer’s assistant was a retired vet tech and she kept an eye on them. They eventually fell out on their own, possibly with some help from tug toys.

I wouldn’t personally neuter early unless a dental specialist felt it was _absolutely_ necessary for the teeth to be surgically removed.


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## Tlcfamily (May 1, 2019)

Thanks everyone! I'm not scheduling surgery yet, but wanted to plan. Our regular vet said if teeth are still stuck at 6 months, they pull them at 6 months during neuter, but it sounds like we need to wait until he's around 2 years of age to neuter him...so maybe pull teeth and stomach tacking earlier, depending on how the teeth work themselves out in the next few months. I've got a consult for the stomach tacking next week, so I'll get some more ideas then. The tacking and neutering don't necessarily need to be done at the same time for males (for females it makes more sense because they open the abdominal cavity for both) I suppose, except for the double anesthesia issue. 

We've never had an intact dog that old before. We have a 10 pound spayed female yorkipoo and 8 pound neutered maltipoo. I'm also a little concerned about having an intact hormonal male dog around them. I suppose we can handle the temporary humping, but will there be increased aggression with either the neutered male or spayed female?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Why do you particularly think humping is going to be a problem? Both males and females as puippies and adolescents might hump. It is not a sexual behavior in those cases. It is about being very excited and training a calming static behavior will cause it to diminish. The only one of our three recent/current dogs that was really big on humping was Lily who used to hump Peeves a lot. He put up with it because he was a very sensible male who understood bitches are bosses and that putting up with her was the only way he might ever have access to her. Javelin is intact (and will stay that way). He is currently 6 years old. He attempted to mount Lily precisely one time with any level of serious adult intentions. She wasn't receptive (she is spayed) when he tried to sneak up behind her. I thought about interrupting him but decided the lesson would take better if she provided it. He started to cover he from behind and she turned around and bit him hard on the nose. He jumped off the bed pretty startled and looked at me with sort of a "gee mom why'd she do that?" look on his face. I just said to him sorry, you have to be invited and she didn't invite you. As it turns out he did us a favor since he showed a lot of interest in her that and the next day. It turns out he had every reason to think she should have been receptive since she had a UTI and was throwing some crystals so she had a microhematuria that he smelled but I didn't. She was urinating normally but his interest told me to take her for a vet check. She got treated sooner and more easily than otherwise might have happened had he not told me something was not right with her.

The answer to your concerns about humping is to be found in proper training.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Tlcfamily said:


> I'm also a little concerned about having an intact hormonal male dog around them. I suppose we can handle the temporary humping, but will there be increased aggression with either the neutered male or spayed female?


I wouldn't worry about nasty behavior just because he's intact.. Male dogs aren't like bulls or stallions. They aren't usually looking for trouble just because they're carrying luggage in the trunk. I would worry more about him hurting them accidentally simply due to the size difference. My 7 month old pup is 55 pounds now. He ran into me from behind while playing today. I definitely felt it!


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

At 4.5 months I am not sure why you are worried about retained teeth. I don't think puppy teeth normally fall out before the adult teeth grow in. I'm sure my dog didn't lose all his puppy teeth until 6 months of age. Mine certainly had his puppy teeth present while the adult teeth were growing in. Eventually the puppy teeth fell out. But it was no big deal. He has one tiny incisor that didn't fall out properly but his vet said there is no reason to worry about it and he can get it removed when he eventually needs a dental (probably when he turns 3). But mine is a mini and smaller dogs are more likely to retain puppy teeth. With a standard I think it is much less likely.

Mine is 2.5 years and had a vasectomy instead of a neuter so that he could retain hormones. I just wanted peace of mind because many idiots will take their in heat dogs to parks here. But behaviorally he is great. They do go through a teenage phase but with guidance they mature into very reasonable adults. Mine is very dog social and doesn't even lose his mind around females in heat. As adolescents they may hump other male dogs (neutered males will do this too) but training and maturity will resolve this. After 2 years mine has been a breeze.

If you ask me I'd say your vet is trying to pressure you into an early neuter against your dog's best interests. Old school vets tend to push 6 month neuters on people because they don't believe the general public is responsible enough to have intact dogs. More progressive vets will say to wait if you're going to neuter.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

If this was my dog and he needed the teeth pulled - I would have that as a separate surgery.

I would hold off on neutering until my dog was completely finished growing. I have a 8 month old male minipoo puppy. I know many people who have neutered or spayed their puppies by that age. I waiting till my dog is fully grown - and maybe I won't neuter. If he has issues that I can't handle with training then I will opt to neuter, otherwise I will keep him intact.

As for humping and pee marking - I had a female tpoo years ago who humped our cats. My current adult minipoo once humped my puppy - and she pee marks. 

It is true that it's better to have one session of anesthesia for two small surgeries. However when you add a 3rd surgery and the time becomes longer and longer it may be safer to have two separate surgeries.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

When Elroy had 2 sets of upper canines (at 5½ months), I asked my vet if I should be concerned about it. She said don't worry about his teeth until he's at least a year old. If it's still an issue after a year, then you may have to deal with it. His puppy canines fell out by 6 months.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Agree with everyone to separate teeth pulling, if necessary, from the neuter. I would also hold off on tacking until the neuter. I would hate for the tack to fail because the dog was still growing.


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## Tlcfamily (May 1, 2019)

Thank you everyone! I've got a consult with the vet tomorrow...in the meantime, one of the shark teeth has already fallen out. The only reason I'm thinking about tacking early is that I've heard of (though uncommon) younger dogs having the torsion issue.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

It is early yet to worry about shark teeth. When he gets a little older if there are any left give them a little wiggle everyday. Swizzle had one stubborn one. The vet suggested I try wiggling it for a couple of weeks. If it did not fall out then I would have had it pulled but fortunately the wiggling worked.


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## Michigan Gal (Jun 4, 2019)

I had two dogs die from bloat. One was a ten year old Irish Setter, and the other an eight year old standard poodle. I was able to find some good research on the bloating problem. As stated above, tacking will not prevent bloat, it just prevents torsion. With my next dog, I fed predator raw because what the dog eats apparently has a lot to do with wether or not he will bloat. Dogs eating kibble are more prone to bloat than those on canned or raw. 

If you wish to feed kibble, feeding once a day is the worst. My Irish setter was fed once a day. However, my poodle was free fed. Both died from bloat. If you wish to feed kibble, I recommend feeding three times a day and making sure he has already drunk water. If he has been active, let him rest for a bit with available water before putting down the kibble. If you feed a high quality food (expensive) he will need to eat less and will be less likely to bloat.


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## Tlcfamily (May 1, 2019)

Ok! So I met with the vet. I mentioned the above study about waiting until older than 23 months to neuter…she said they usually do large breed neuter between 12-18 months, but I could do it at any time. She said that’s when they would do the tacking as well. However, I’m hesitant to wait until he’s 2 years old to do tacking - while rare, torsion can happen younger than that, and he’s going to be a big dog (he’s 45 pounds now at 21 weeks!). She said if we were going to do two surgeries, she’d do the tacking between 6 and 9 months because they go through a fear period between 9 and 12 months and she avoids traumatic things when possible during that period. 

So now we are leaning toward a 6-9 month tacking, and over 24 month neuter, although I still want to do more research about that.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

You seem rather determined to have him pexied at as young an age as possible. I'm not convinced that's in the dog's best interest. Have you previously had a dog bloat before age 2? What's driving this fear?


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## Tlcfamily (May 1, 2019)

What age would you suggest? What is the disadvantage of getting him tacked sooner than later? I don’t necessarily need him tacked super early, but I don’t want to wait until he’s 2. The vet said any growth after the surgery wouldn’t affect the tacking’s effectiveness. If we decided to neuter at 12-18 months than yes we would wait to do both surgeries at the same time - I’m just looking at the study listed above that specifically mentions waiting to neuter male standard poodles after 23 months to avoid additional risk of some cancers/joint issues.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I have been wondering as Liz about why you are so convinced you need to do the gastropexy asap (or at all). As I said above (and I suppose some people may think I am foolish on this) none of our three large breed dogs ever had a torsion or a bloat and none was/is pexied. Peeves was 12 when he passed in the spring. Lily is 13 and Javelin is 6. I have done lots of exploration on the risks and benefits and have managed risks in how and what they are fed. I am happy not to have put them under the risks of extra anaesthesias and surgeries.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

For better or for worse, I also didn't pexy Annie. It's not a surgery our vet routinely performs. I had considered having her laproscopically spayed, and would probably have had her pexied if I had done it at that clinic (less invasive and also a procedure they perform all the time). I may change my mind and have her pexied at some point, probably at the laparoscopic clinic - I had her spayed in the middle of the pandemic, she was actually the second day of elective surgery my vet had performed since being allowed to reopen. I wasn't interested in driving into the city at that point and staying overnight in a hotel, or having my vet do an unusual surgery as one of her first in several months. 

None of my family's large breed dogs (many labs, St. Bernards, LGDs, etc) have bloated at this point.

I was curious so did some googling- overall rate of bloat in dogs seems to be 5.7%, with a major risk factor being over 3 in giant breeds, and over 5 in large breeds. Some sources say over 7 as major risk. I would personally be comfortable waiting until 2, but that's completely up to you. I'm also not convinced there's a huge decrease in risk between 18 months and 24 months - if it concerns you, maybe neutering and pexying at 18 months could be a compromise.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Tlcfamily said:


> She said if we were going to do two surgeries, she’d do the tacking between 6 and 9 months because they go through a fear period between 9 and 12 months and she avoids traumatic things when possible during that period.


Peggy’s most intense fear period occurred at 8 months.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Also you may find after waiting 18-24 months that you don't feel the need to neuter. Like Lily cd re, mine stayed intact. He had a vasectomy so he is infertile, but that is a safe procedure to perform at any age because it won't affect hormones. It is an option if you really want to tack at a young age. Though I'm not sure I see the reason for the rush.


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