# Oklahoma Breeders



## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Recently a fourth poodle moved into our neighborhood, and when we got everyone together for a playdate, we realized that the new poodle may be related to one of the other poodles! We were clued in by the fact that Cosmo (4 yrs old) and Poppy (6 yrs old) look similar, and when their owners started talking, they realized that both dogs came from breeders in Oklahoma. Although they come from different breeders - Julie Nelson and Paula Herd (Hurd?) - we are trying to figure out if their lines cross. Does anyone know either of these women? Is there another way to figure this out?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Do you have their pedigrees - that would be the obvious place to start.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Unfortunately, I don't have the pedigrees or kennel names. Otherwise this would be a lot easier


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

<bump>


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Well, after Googling I could not find either name connected with a Poodle - so they obviously do not show or have any important lines :noidea:

Actually the only connection I found was this :

127 42A0734 Nelson, Julie Nelson Farms Fairfield 52556 Health issues

Some dog kennel inspection site that fights puppy-mills :afraid:

BUT - it could be completely different person in question !!!!!!!!! I am just posting what I found : (((


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Thanks for looking, Wishpoo. I assume that neither of these women are very reputable. There have been other threads here which point out that OK is one of the nation's leaders in puppy-mills, if "leaders" is an appropriate word in this context.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

You could try the USDA inspection of kennels site. If they happen to be large breeders then there will be an inspection report. You have names & state & that should get you started. I traced down my Parents Rescue dog that way. But I had the help of her pedigree but on there it listed the "breeders" names & state & I tracked down that they had 32 GR at the time of inspection & they only milled out the Goldens mostly to Petstore's which is where this dog was originally purchased & later ended up in Rescue. I hope this helps. I will try to track down if that is the route but it has been a long time since I had to go onto a USDA kennel inspection site.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Success! I found the kennels! I don't see any evidence that the lines cross, but I'll keep digging. Thanks!


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Just to close the thread: after lots of digging, we discovered that all four standard poodles in my neighborhood are related! What are the chances? Their nearest common ancestor is Bad Company's Lazarus, although there are lots of other connections as well. It seems like Lazarus was quite the stud in his day. Thanks for steering me in the right direction!


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

that is weird & good news too. What were the characteristics that set off this inquiry to begin with? How far back in the pedigree was this stud on the pedigree's? I find that so interesting. What method of tracing did you find the breeders & then the common ancestor? You did great research.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

3dogs said:


> that is weird & good news too. What were the characteristics that set off this inquiry to begin with? How far back in the pedigree was this stud on the pedigree's? I find that so interesting. What method of tracing did you find the breeders & then the common ancestor? You did great research.


(1) How this inquiry began - a new spoo, Cosmo, moved into our neighborhood in Dec. Since I live in a very dog-oriented 'hood, everyone noticed the new dog (you heard me - the new dog, not the new humans). Fast forward through a couple of conversations and playdates, and we realized that not only does Cosmo look like Poppy (another spoo in our neighborhood), but they both came from OK. So we started wondering if they could be related.

(2) Lazarus is 3 gens back for one dog (6 yr old Poppy), 4 gens back for 2 dogs (4 yr old Cosmo and 6 yr old Izzy), and 6 gens back for my dog (8 month old Mia).

(3) It is very interesting! However, it also shows the genetic bottlenecks in poodles, and especially multi-colors. Poppy and Mia are parti-colored, and Izzy and Cosmo are silver/blue and possibly phantom. (I say possibly because there is some variation in the coloring on both dogs, but none of us are familiar enough with spoo coloring to know if they qualify as phantoms or if this is normal. If I could figure out how to post photos, I would in order to get some help.) Apparently, this _Lazarus _guy was way over-used as a stud, and shows up in a lot of pedigrees. Similarly, _Rudy Valentino Xi_ and _Lovely Rita_ were totally over-bred, having a total of 8 litters of 10-12 dogs each - over 80 puppies!!! (Feel free to discuss on the thread about BYB definitions.) Two of the spoos in my 'hood (Mia and Izzy) are descended from this pair. Very strange. I'd love to look at some pedigrees from well-bred poodles and see if they look that different from our four spoos. (BTW, one of our spoos, Poppy, also comes from champion lines. It seems like someone got hold of a high-quality puppy and decided to churn out some spoos, introducing the _Lazarus _line. I'm not so sure of the quality of breeding after this.)

(4) How I discovered all this - poodlepedigree.com. All the dogs are AKC, so there was a good chance that I'd find them on the site. Izzy was already listed; Cosmo's owners had his parents' info; Mia's sire's info is listed (I'm about to do some digging on her dam); and Poppy's breeder turns out to be decent, and she was able to help locate his sire and dam. Once we had the lines, I just printed them out and looked for common names - 8 highlighter colors later, I had found many connections!


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