# Re: Whispering Pines Poodles



## Dogsinstyle (Sep 6, 2009)

Latte has 2 affected offspring now, one from each litter.


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

jak said:


> Just came across an addison affected dog while cruising the web...
> 
> K-Lar's Chocolate Latte (Bred by Bijou) is an Addisons affected dog.
> 
> ...


i'm surprised at bijou. she's such a conscientious breeder...how could she let this slip by???? so...does this mean, even if a pup comes with health testing, we can't necessarily trust it????? this is scary.....


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## brittwink21 (Jan 3, 2010)

I guess you never really know. you just have to do your very best researching someone.:decision:


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Jessie's Mom said:


> i'm surprised at bijou. she's such a conscientious breeder...how could she let this slip by???? so...does this mean, even if a pup comes with health testing, we can't necessarily trust it????? this is scary.....



There is no test for a gene that causes Addisons. We suspect that Addisons is genetic, but we don't know how it is passed down. With this and other auto-immune disorders breeders have to take a "wait and see" approach. Best practices say to remove affected dogs and those closely related to them from a breeding program. 

To give Whispering Pines the benefit of the doubt, it could be that the bitch and her offspring were bred before the foundation bitch came down with Addisons. This is why it is risky to breed Standards at a young age. You don't know what might be lurking in the gene pool.

As far as Bijou being conscientious.... ahhh..... that would not be my personal opinion, but you can certainly do a search on this forum and see previous discussions about this breeder.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

jak said:


> Just came across an addison affected dog while cruising the web...
> 
> K-Lar's Chocolate Latte (Bred by Bijou) is an Addisons affected dog.
> 
> ...


OMG JAK We must have ESP I was looking through pedigrees and found this last night


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

cbrand said:


> As far as Bijou being conscientious.... ahhh..... that would not be my personal opinion, but you can certainly do a search on this forum and see previous discussions about this breeder.


Except that the most telling thread has been removed from common view... :wacko:


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

plumcrazy said:


> Except that the most telling thread has been removed from common view... :wacko:


Yup ! 

Let me look again so I can be accurate I believe this dog from Ash mystical is related.

Let me go look 

BRB


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

plumcrazy said:


> except that the most telling thread has been removed from common view... :wacko:


ditto!!!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Ok its not in Enzos pedigree Its in a dog I was looking into for future breeding. She has Ash's-Mystical Mahogany Mist in her pedigree and I found the K-Lar dog was Ash's-Mystical Mahogany Mist half sister or brother.

It would be 5 generation Back to the pups if we do do the breeding.


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

i know this thread is not about bijou, but i am getting the feeling that she is not so well liked around these parts. i had some interaction with bijou, however, it didn't start out pleasant and i guess it just ended neutral. i read some of the stuff on her website and i perceived it as a lot of bragging that she had the best chocolates as far as conformation and as far as coloring and she's done this and done that, etc etc. i was compelled to write to her and tell her how condenscending she sounded. she didn't take too well to that and proceeded to tell me she earned her bragging rights. after many eMails back & forth, i really just decided to give up the banter. we did not end on a bad note, but it never really got rid of the bad taste in my mouth. now i am seeing for all her bragging, she's not as perfect as she professes to be. in fact, i now question her values.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Jessie's Mom said:


> i know this thread is not about bijou, but i am getting the feeling that she is not so well liked around these parts. i had some interaction with bijou, however, it didn't start out pleasant and i guess it just ended neutral. i read some of the stuff on her website and i perceived it as a lot of bragging that she had the best chocolates as far as conformation and as far as coloring and she's done this and done that, etc etc. i was compelled to write to her and tell her how condenscending she sounded. she didn't take too well to that and proceeded to tell me she earned her bragging rights. after many eMails back & forth, i really just decided to give up the banter. we did not end on a bad note, but it never really got rid of the bad taste in my mouth. now i am seeing for all her bragging, she's not as perfect as she professes to be. in fact, i now question her values.


OH BOY!!! People need to ask lots and lots of questions of breeders and get proof of anything they may say. There is enough info on this forum, even with the threads that got pulled, for people to get an idea of the opinons of many on here.

Some of the top brown AKC and CKC breeders would really take exception to the claim that Bijou browns are top quality.


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> OH BOY!!! People need to ask lots and lots of questions of breeders and get proof of anything they may say. There is enough info on this forum, even with the threads that got pulled, for people to get an idea of the opinons of many on here.
> 
> Some of the top brown AKC and CKC breeders would really take exception to the claim that Bijou browns are top quality.


arreau...why do people have to be so pompous? humility goes a much longer way. i hope whatever happened between you and bijou is very far behind you. when you profess that you walk on water, you usually wind up drowning. in time, all that is hidden is revealed. i'm glad you are ok. re: laura, i'm sorry for her.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Jessie's Mom said:


> arreau...why do people have to be so pompous? humility goes a much longer way. i hope whatever happened between you and bijou is very far behind you. when you profess that you walk on water, you usually wind up drowning. in time, all that is hidden is revealed. i'm glad you are ok. re: laura, i'm sorry for her.


I am fine!! I get PM's from people who hear things from the cronies in PM's and I don't care anymore. I wear my heart on my sleeve and what you see and hear is what you get. They cannot damage me because the people they are lying about me to who would believe them and judge me because of their nonsense are people I do not want to be bothered with anyway.

I think a lot of breeders get a holier than thou attitude and think their dogs are perfect and that their poop doesn't stink. It is really hard for people to find mentors when there are so many nasty breeders who are so hard to deal with. And there are some people who appear great until you question them or cross them. I think we need to all be honest and open, and allow people in. I would much rather mentor someone and try to lead them the right way than be a negative foorce, have them go elsewhere and screw things up, because whatever they do and whatever they add to the gene pool is going to affect some or most of us along the way anyway.

I have met some incredible breeders who are honest and helpful and do their best to be wonderful ambassadors of this breed. But I have encountered others, who even with my years of exposure to this breed would make me want to run in the other direction. I don't understand how this type of person feels they are helping in any way. But, humans are always a bit of a puzzle to me at the best of times....


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> But, humans are always a bit of a puzzle to me at the best of times....


i'll drink to that !:biggrin1:
seriously, glad you came to terms with things.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Most assuredly. Everything always comes out in the wash. My Mother always taught me what goes around comes around and I have always found that to be true.


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

cbrand said:


> There is no test for a gene that causes Addisons. We suspect that Addisons is genetic, but we don't know how it is passed down. With this and other auto-immune disorders breeders have to take a "wait and see" approach. Best practices say to remove affected dogs and those closely related to them from a breeding program.
> 
> *To give Whispering Pines the benefit of the doubt*, it could be that the bitch and her offspring were bred before the foundation bitch came down with Addisons. This is why it is risky to breed Standards at a young age. You don't know what might be lurking in the gene pool.
> 
> As far as Bijou being conscientious.... ahhh..... that would not be my personal opinion, but you can certainly do a search on this forum and see previous discussions about this breeder.


I already thought about that, but she was bred twice, and the offspring has been bred from, in 2008. Latte was 6 then...


Lol, Bijou being conscientious? Sorry

And yes, with careful breeding, Addison's could be eliminated, or at least far less common... but alas, I still see people breeding dogs with addisonian littermates, from the parents who have produced addisonian puppies....

Makes me cry


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> OMG JAK We must have ESP I was looking through pedigrees and found this last night


Wow!

Lol, I was only looking at it because I clicked on addisons affected dog list on phr... 
But I am often looking through pedigrees... where certain things pop up.. and dogs..


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## Jos (Dec 22, 2009)

I wonder if the people who breed from affected dogs have ever had the pleasure of seeing a healthy happy dog?? if they have I would like to hear their explanation of why they breed with dogs which are not healthy or are carriers and therefore can result in dogs who do not enjoy a happy healthy life. it will continue to be one of lifes puzzles for me. I hate to think of people buying a pet puppy and having to spend a lot of time nursing their unwell dog. long live the Saffy's, Lara's, Hestia's and Paris's of the world! and all the others that I am yet to meet!


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

Jessie's Mom said:


> arreau...why do people have to be so pompous? humility goes a much longer way. i hope whatever happened between you and bijou is very far behind you. when you profess that you walk on water, you usually wind up drowning. in time, all that is hidden is revealed. i'm glad you are ok. re: laura, i'm sorry for her.


Its called kennel blindness KENNEL BLINDNESS


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## Dogsinstyle (Sep 6, 2009)

A side note- K-Lar's Chocolate Latte was not bred by K-lar/Bijou. She was bred by Carol Crew -Crews Happy Acres. The dog went north, then came back south.


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## Taxi (Jan 18, 2010)

Dogsinstyle said:


> A side note- K-Lar's Chocolate Latte was not bred by K-lar/Bijou. She was bred by Carol Crew -Crews Happy Acres. The dog went north, then came back south.


Thank you for the information. 

I wonder how this thread would have side tracked if we had this information in the beginning.


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

cbrand said:


> There is no test for a gene that causes Addisons. We suspect that Addisons is genetic, but we don't know how it is passed down. With this and other auto-immune disorders breeders have to take a "wait and see" approach. Best practices say to remove affected dogs and those closely related to them from a breeding program.
> 
> To give Whispering Pines the benefit of the doubt, it could be that the bitch and her offspring were bred before the foundation bitch came down with Addisons. This is why it is risky to breed Standards at a young age. You don't know what might be lurking in the gene pool.i just had jessie checked for addisons. thank God, negative.
> 
> As far as Bijou being conscientious.... ahhh..... that would not be my personal opinion, but you can certainly do a search on this forum and see previous discussions about this breeder.


 my first interaction with laurie was not impressive, then i just decided she was a little on the self righteous side and dropped the whole thing. i did look @ the threads and i guess my first instinct was correct. very sad.


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## Taxi (Jan 18, 2010)

Jessie's Mom said:


> my first interaction with laurie was not impressive, then i just decided she was a little on the self righteous side and dropped the whole thing. i did look @ the threads and i guess my first instinct was correct. very sad.





Jessie's Mom said:


> i know this thread is not about bijou, but i am getting the feeling that she is not so well liked around these parts.


Your instinct's were also correct with the second quote.


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

Taxi said:


> Your instinct's were also correct with the second quote.


I love how you show up just when that kennel name is mentioned. Funny how that seems to happen every single time.hwell: And please direct me to threads where you've been useful and helpful other than to defend Bijou and her clan breedings? Are you just coming here and typing BIJOU in the search and posting on all threads that have the name brought up? Because that's what it looks like to all of us. If that's the case, one would wonder exactly who you really are because no one is that loyal to a breeder they got a dog from and from my understanding Laura tends to like to sign up under false names. Just throwing that out there because it really seems fishy to more than just me.


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## Taxi (Jan 18, 2010)

KPoos said:


> I love how you show up just when that kennel name is mentioned. Funny how that seems to happen every single time.hwell: And please direct me to threads where you've been useful and helpful other than to defend Bijou and her clan breedings? Are you just coming here and typing BIJOU in the search and posting on all threads that have the name brought up? Because that's what it looks like to all of us. If that's the case, one would wonder exactly who you really are because no one is that loyal to a breeder they got a dog from and from my understanding Laura tends to like to sign up under false names. Just throwing that out there because it really seems fishy to more than just me.


Hi Kpoo, please search for threads were I have posted and you will see where I have offered advice from my experience in raising dogs and poodles. 

Here is a listing of all the threads I have posted in, listed in alphabetical order. Please do not take my word for it but they deal more with giving advice. Let me correct myself. They all started out giving advice until another member did not like what I had to say and even then I was only giving my opinion.

40 Standar Poodles taken by ASPCA
Can you check over this breeder contract?
Clicker training 
Comfortis flea control ??
Desensitizing puppy to downtown noises
DIY tail docking and dewclaw removal
Dog shoes?
Exercise requirements?
Face clips?
Harnesses?
I just had a labradoodle puppy come in today…
Juvenile Renal Dysplasia (JRD) Testing Available
Long tails
New Member
New Member (different thread)
New Today
Not for a weak stomach
To Post or Not Post OFA Results
Water Restriction
What made you want to get a Poodle?
when should my puppy leave it's momma?
Whispering Pines Poodles
Why should a dog allow a child to lay on them?

Concerning signing up under false names. Your monitors have the capability to find out what IP addresses that my wife & I are posting from. . They will show you what city & state they originate in. If the monitors do not have the capability, whoever owns this forum will have that information. 

My personal experience with Laura has been good and I like how she raises her pups. She really prepares them to come into this world so they are not so afraid of new surroundings. My wife "pudel luv" really has had a lot more contact with her and her experience has been great. 
pudel luv also keeps in touch with a number of people who have our Bijou pup's brothers and sisters and these people are very happy. Laura is very good with after the sale support.

I know this will give someone something to beat on me about but I find some of the comments on this form very harsh not only about Bijou but even with new members that do not agree with the core group. We have talk to members of this form by phone & e-mail. I am more public about my comments but others feel the same but do not want to weather the storm from their own comments. Obviously I have a certain point of view about Laura and I do not see any harm in expressing it while two or three or more members are making the same comments they always make & then referring to old post. There is always three sides to a story, yours, mine and how it really is.

Now you may be especially hard on my wife & I (not so much my wife but myself. I feel my wife is receiving some negative feedback because of me) because you do not think we are ordinary people that own a Bijou poodle. There is no conspiracy going on with us. If you really look at my post, I am not defending anyone but sharing an experience I had. Although when you say "to all of us" you all obviously take it as defending... not so! Discussion is the best way to resolve conflicts in my opinion. So I share my experience.

Kpoo please PM your phone number so we can talk. E-mail and forums have there place but a lot is also lost or not addressed. I do not want to try to convince you or anyone about anything. But it would be nice if I could reassure you that I am who I am and I think speaking on the phone will help. Then you can report back to the "to all of us" group. At least I am trying here.


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Whatever you have with Laura, breeding 6 litters in the last 6 months cannot be done by someone who is in it for "the love of the breed"
Back to back to back matings?

Come on, seriously ? ? ?


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Dogsinstyle said:


> A side note- K-Lar's Chocolate Latte was not bred by K-lar/Bijou. She was bred by Carol Crew -Crews Happy Acres. The dog went north, then came back south.


Lol, my bad!

It's just when all of these 'breeders' use other people's kennel names... what is one meant to assume!


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

jak said:


> Whatever you have with Laura, breeding 6 litters in the last 6 months cannot be done by someone who is in it for "the love of the breed"
> Back to back to back matings?
> 
> Come on, seriously ? ? ?


I've never met Laura, never spoken to her, never emailed her - All I know is what I've learned on this forum and IMO it is enough. This individual has created multiple personalities on this forum with the INTENT TO DECEIVE. At one point in time she came on here as "herself" under the user name Bijoupoodles, but then she created _at least_ *two *other identities as well as perhaps others... (and we still don't know if she's done playing these games!)

I don't care if she was the best, most conscientious, thorough, meticulous breeder on the PLANET (which is highly unlikely - see jak's post above), I still can never trust anything she says because of how she comported herself here; on a public forum...


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

plumcrazy said:


> I've never met Laura, never spoken to her, never emailed her - All I know is what I've learned on this forum and IMO it is enough. This individual has created multiple personalities on this forum with the INTENT TO DECEIVE. At one point in time she came on here as "herself" under the user name Bijoupoodles, but then she created _at least_ *two *other identities as well as perhaps others... (and we still don't know if she's done playing these games!)
> 
> I don't care if she was the best, most conscientious, thorough, meticulous breeder on the PLANET (which is highly unlikely - see jak's post above), I still can never trust anything she says because of how she comported herself here; on a public forum...


My thoughts exactly. Her behavior here speaks volumes. I find her actions on this forum to be highly offensive. Until she joined this forum, I didn't know much about her and didn't care to. I had no interest in a red Poodle. My opinion of her as a breeder and person comes mainly from how she conducted herself here. Before she runs around threatening everyone under the sun w/ slander lawsuits, she should take a look at her own behavior.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Harley_chik said:


> My thoughts exactly. Her behavior here speaks volumes. I find her actions on this forum to be highly offensive. Until she joined this forum, I didn't know much about her and didn't care to. I had no interest in a red Poodle. My opinion of her as a breeder and person comes mainly from how she conducted herself here. Before she runs around threatening everyone under the sun w/ slander lawsuits, she should take a look at her own behavior.


CYBER LIBEL
CYBER LIBEL
>.>
lol


I'm glad you and your wife have a good rapport with her taxi, in my opinion thats one of the things you should look for in a breeder...if YOU like them thats what matters :]
if YOU love the dog/s you have from her thats what matters in my opinion 

...but I also agree that she did conduct herself VERY poorly on this forum it was because of her kennel name that I found the forum though XD
so yay for cyber libel!!


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

i just have to say it again....thought it was only me who reacted the way i did (which was offended) after reading her website. not to mention how we had a cyber argument :argue: which i ended when it got to the point of ridiculous. i even saved some of the eMails. couldn't believe i was even stooping this low. and, mind you, this was way before i found this forum....so i don't think it is prejudice here when there are comments written about her nature. she may have beautiful dogs and she may have added a lot to the color gene studies and maybe her browns don't silver and maybe her dogs have the best temperments and maybe she's made very difficult decisions to not keep dogs that were not going to benefit her mission (which is topic enough in itself), but she's too self rightous - i could never buy a dog from her. anyone who thinks they are above the rest, scares me.


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