# Thoughts on pure poodle puppy love



## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Hmm. My thoughts are that they seem to be a mediocre breeder. I say that because while they do decent health testing on their dogs and seem to raise puppies in a very nice environment and with socialization, the dogs themselves don't seem to have great conformation and do not have any titles on them to prove temperament, trainability, or structure. This is clearly a business aimed at profit rather than a breeder that is putting a great deal of care into proving their dogs' breed quality and breeding to improve later generations.

I don't know off the top of my head what breeders would fit both of those requirements. I know Windswept in CO does not dock tails but I don't believe they do Puppy Culture. They do their own socialization process.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Have you read their contract carefully?

"_This warranty does NOT cover viral illnesses, coccidia/giardia, cherry eye, entropion, ectropion, allergies, undescended testicles, loose knees or hips, luxating patella, stenotic nares, elongated soft pallet, umbilical hernia, improper bite, crooked teeth missing teeth, hypoglycemia, anal gland issues, worms, dermatitis, demodectic mange, or ear infections and or cancers."_

Obviously a breeder can't be responsible for a puppy catching a contagious disease or parasites after leaving home. However, I raise my eyebrows when I see a lot of exclusions around things might be heritable, like bad bite or undescended testicles.

"_Buyer agrees to have the puppy sterilized before the age of 18 months and does not recommend before 12 months. Once sterilization is complete, proof must be supplied to the Breeder with the sterilization certificate detailing the puppy’s microchip number from the veterinarian that performed the procedure. A simple receipt will not be accepted as proof...Failure to comply with this agreement by the puppy’s age of 18 months, unless otherwise agreed to in writing, will be considered a breach of the Contract and a fine of $1500.00 expected for the tardiness"_

Threats of fines tend to make me prickly.


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

These are both good points. Thank you for pointing out that they don't have any titles for anything that's something I should have considered when looking at their website.

And the contract does seem a little fishy especially with things that could very well be genetic.

I love the look of poodles with natural tails. I am open to other breeders that ensure socialization... It's just nice that puppy culture has proven protocols but that might be one I'd be more lenient on if their dogs are well socialized.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

cowpony said:


> Have you read their contract carefully?
> 
> "_This warranty does NOT cover viral illnesses, coccidia/giardia, cherry eye, entropion, ectropion, allergies, undescended testicles, loose knees or hips, luxating patella, stenotic nares, elongated soft pallet, umbilical hernia, improper bite, crooked teeth missing teeth, hypoglycemia, anal gland issues, worms, dermatitis, demodectic mange, or ear infections and or cancers."_
> 
> ...


I also got a bit uneasy reading the contract. I don't see the exclusions as super concerning given that generally those things are common enough occurrences that aren't usually covered, though I'd hope stenotic nares wouldn't be an issue! Certainly a breeder should be aiming not to produce most of these heritable items but they do occur sometimes. A buyer should be informed of things like hernia, cryptorchid, or improper bite prior to purchase so it's unclear to me if that's also happening.

The 18 month sterilization agreement would put me off as I'd want to wait til 2. But that's somewhat individual. I suppose the the threat of fines is to prevent breeding of unregistered litters. I don't particularly like it but they may have their reasons.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Not sure how you feel about this, but it looks like they’ve got an inter-variety breeding planned: Stormy/mini and Kona/spoo.


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

Oh gosh you guys pick up on so many details that I'd missed! So glad I posted here. Okay pass. This sounds so weird but I wanted you guys to tell me your opinions because the dog body language in the pictures of her breeding dogs seemed... Off? But that's not really enough to say no especially when it's just a picture and they fit the other criteria so I'm really glad you're all helping.

Checking out Windswept right now. Thank you for the suggestion. Any other breeder suggestions are recommend!!

I've got some time. I don't want a puppy until early next year. But trying to get it somewhat sorted now so I can get on those wait lists!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Something was feeling a little off to me, too, so I did some sleuthing and found this:






Puppies | Dawn Dee Doodles







www.dawndeedoodles.com





Regardless of how you feel about doodles, it strikes me as odd that they talk up the importance of “purity” so much on their poodle site and then have this totally separate business identity/website/Facebook page, etc. for doodling with multiple other breeds.


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

Oooh boy that's so strange and I don't like that at all. Oof yeah don't lie. She also doesn't allow people to visit her pups so I'm wondering now of she's a larger scale breeder than she's protraying on her site.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I _will_ say that her videos of the puppies using litter boxes are adorable! Eeeeeee. Puppy fever.

We’re in Washington, too, so I’ll definitely be following along on your poodle-finding journey, learning along with you.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Something was feeling a little off to me, too, so I did some sleuthing and found this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Eeeek you cracked this one wide open. I notice there's a merle "poodle" listed on that doodle site that's definitely _not listed_ on their poodle site. They know they're doing something shady. I'm going to move this one into the solid _NOPE_ category.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

naybaloog said:


> Oh gosh you guys pick up on so many details that I'd missed! So glad I posted here. Okay pass. This sounds so weird but I wanted you guys to tell me your opinions because the dog body language in the pictures of her breeding dogs seemed... Off? But that's not really enough to say no especially when it's just a picture and they fit the other criteria so I'm really glad you're all helping.
> 
> Checking out Windswept right now. Thank you for the suggestion. Any other breeder suggestions are recommend!!
> 
> I've got some time. I don't want a puppy until early next year. But trying to get it somewhat sorted now so I can get on those wait lists!


I agree about the pictures and gave it some thought. Most breeders have dogs clipped close enough so that you can easily see their conformation. They also pose them standing so you can judge body proportions easily. Many are posed in the ring or with their awards.


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

Okay I filled out an application for heart song. Heart Song Standard Poodles – Standard Poodle Puppies for Sale

They are far from me but I'm fine spending time to go pick up the puppy. Crossing fingers!!


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## Ava. (Oct 21, 2020)

From a quick glance I like their dogs, Tahani is very pretty. Wonder why they decided to not produce puppies from her.


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

I talked to heart song and she seems great. Knows what she wants in her puppies very focused on temperament and has had several service dogs out there. I want my dog to be a therapy dog for my clients so a calm bomb proof dog is what I'm looking for that wants to please people is what I'm looking for. As to your question about Tahini, I think it might be because her puppies tended to have a bit of a higher drive than she wanted to breed for. 

If you guys have any reservations about her based on her site let me know. It's not too late for me to change breeders I've got another one in mind. But I really enjoyed my conversation with her.


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