# Nature's Variety....TOMORROW!



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think you will need some meaty bones to help his teeth. Chicken wings and necks are good - mine are gnawing on lamb hock and shoulder bones as I type. No need to remind you that they must be raw bones, I know!


----------



## RileysMommy (Jul 18, 2011)

Thanks, fjm! I got some turkey necks today. I cut them in half and gave Riley one! He wasnt too interested at first. So, I put a lil ketchup on the end because for whatever reason he LOVES ketchup! I had to hold it at first but once he got the hang of it I was able to put it down! He only ate half of what I gave him. So, that would have been 1/4 of the neck. 

I should give him these about every 3 days to help with his teeth?


----------



## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

Kewl!! And FYI I put mine in the microwave on defrost for 4 minutes and it defrosts with no cooking! That is for the large patty..for the small pieces it would be less time. You want to get it a little softer not warm.


----------



## swismiself (Feb 26, 2012)

Nature's Variety is an excellent food. My cat, Athena, was on the cover of their bags for a while in 2006, and we got a year's worth of their food (dry kibble) in return for letting them use her image.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

*Not in microwave!!!*



Ms Stella said:


> Kewl!! And FYI I put mine in the microwave on defrost for 4 minutes and it defrosts with no cooking! That is for the large patty..for the small pieces it would be less time. You want to get it a little softer not warm.


You are very specifically *not* supposed to defrost in the microwave. The raw bone included in the patty will cook and and any fragments will become sharp and less easily digested.

Even if it does not seem "cooked" to you, it _is_ cooking to some degree. Any degree of cooking with bones is not good.


----------



## RileysMommy (Jul 18, 2011)

The lady at the pet food store said I could put three in the refrigerator and they would be ok until he eats them? Is this right? I know it will take a lil longer to defrost in there than say sitting out. He will get 1/2 patty a day. So 3 patties will last 6 days.
I only took one out for now...until I'm sure how to go about this! I had it in the refrigerator but just sat it out on the counter (it's in an air tight container)....I will put it back before bed. I just wanted to make sure it's thawed for breakfast!


----------



## swismiself (Feb 26, 2012)

I've forgotten about various ground beef and steaks I've set in my fridge to defrost for as many as 10 days and it was fine. I usually mark them, though, so that I remember to eat them within 7 days. I can't imagine pet food to be much different. I would defrost as much as you need for 5-7 days, and then ever day take enough out for one day, so that you always stay ahead. 

I would also assume that, in a pinch, you could do a fast defrost in a sink full of really hot water. I doubt even the hottest of water coming from your tap would be hot enough to cook the bone, but it would defrost the patty much faster than leaving it out, or in the fridge. I know you're not technically supposed to do that but...in a pinch...

The other thing you should realize is that dogs have a much shorter digestive tract than we do, so they can tolerate a lot more than we do. Wolves and wild dogs will scavenge old carcasses when food is scarce...


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

You can leave raw food in the fridge for as long as it takes to thaw. I thaw 5 or so lbs. at a time so I leave food in the fridge for days before it thaws. If I need a quick thaw I let it sit out on the kitchen for a few hours. Once meat is thawed I am comfortable with it being in the fridge for 3 days or so.


----------



## Theo'sMom (Mar 23, 2011)

Theo likes the patties very cold. Almost frozen. I've defrosted them on the counter and it doesn't take long for one to get soft enough to eat.


----------



## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

CharismaticMillie said:


> You are very specifically *not* supposed to defrost in the microwave. The raw bone included in the patty will cook and and any fragments will become sharp and less easily digested.
> 
> Even if it does not seem "cooked" to you, it _is_ cooking to some degree. Any degree of cooking with bones is not good.


I find that hard to believe..defrost is a specific setting and it does not cook. This is the way Ive always defrosted mine..its still semifrozen when done.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Ms Stella said:


> I find that hard to believe..defrost is a specific setting and it does not cook. This is the way Ive always defrosted mine..its still semifrozen when done.


I'm not sure what to tell you. These were the recommendations on the bag back when we used to feed NV 2 years ago.

ETA: Perhaps it is Primal that warns to never microwave raw pet food. If you need to thaw your raw food quickly it is much better for their health, due to changes that occur within the food and the possible micro cooking of the bone when being microwaved even on a defrost setting, to warm the raw food in a container, plugged sink, or plastic tub of warm water.

A quick search on the internet shows that most suggest avoiding defrosting raw pet diets in the microwave for various reasons including the fact that it may alter the composition, alter the nutrients and destroy many of the benefits of feeding a raw diet as well as cook the pieces of bone making them brittle. All suggest thawing in the refrigerator or in a tub of luke warm water as the preferred and safest methods.

One of the issues with using a microwave to defrost is that, even on a defrost setting, a microwave heats unevenly so some parts of the patty may cook slightly while others are still frozen. I see no reason to take the risk when a single patty can be thawed in about 20 minutes in warm water but surely do as you please. Because the general public can read this thread I am more inclined to try to help the other raw feeders preserve the quality of their raw food for their pets than to try and persuade you.  When one is spending the amount of money that NV costs to feed their dogs, surely they want to preserve the uniqueness of a raw diet by not ruining the altering the chemistry of the _expensive_ raw food in the microwave.


----------



## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I'm not sure what to tell you. These were the recommendations on the bag back when we used to feed NV 2 years ago.
> 
> ETA: Perhaps it is Primal that warns to never microwave raw pet food. If you need to thaw your raw food quickly it is much better for their health, due to changes that occur within the food and the possible micro cooking of the bone when being microwaved even on a defrost setting, to warm the raw food in a container, plugged sink, or plastic tub of warm water.


I just looked at one of my bags and it does not say you cannot defrost in the microwave, nor does the website mention microwave... It says the preferred method is in the fridge over night. That is the preferred method of defrosting any food for people too..but you most certainly can do it in warm water or the microwave.


----------



## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I take two medallions (I get the medallions rather than the patties) out of the freezer before I go to bed and put them in the refrigerator in a ziplock. They are fine for breakfast. Sunny gets two in the a.m. (2 ounces) for breakfast.


----------



## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

One thing about the NV instinct is the amount is so little..I feel bad that they dont get much quantity! I split one patty with Stella and Madonna twice a day. So they each get one patty a day. Madonna gets kibble too (Stella gets a about 10 or 15 pieces of kibble) Madonna is skinny so I give her extra. Stella is on the cusp of being overweight..she has a little roll at her tail base  

Amazing how many calories in such a small amount!


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Ms Stella said:


> One thing about the NV instinct is the amount is so little..I feel bad that they dont get much quantity! I split one patty with Stella and Madonna twice a day. So they each get one patty a day. Madonna gets kibble too (Stella gets a about 10 or 15 pieces of kibble) Madonna is skinny so I give her extra. Stella is on the cusp of being overweight..she has a little roll at her tail base
> 
> Amazing how many calories in such a small amount!


Wow! That's crazy! How big are your poodles? Tiger (intact adolescent male....) ate 4 patties (and still was skinny) when he ate this with his handler (he is a little over 25 inches tall and 48 lbs), Millie ate 2 patties (24.5 inches tall and 48 lbs) and Henry ate 3 patties (60 lbs. and 26.5 inches tall)

Typically a 50 pound dog will require 1 pound of raw food daily. Of course this varies with metabolism and activity. Anyway, that explains the above amounts that I feed my dogs.

My experience has been quite different from Stella's. First, premade raw diets like NV and Primal have vegetables and fruits included which means that they are less calorie dense than the raw diet that I am accustomed to feeding. Additionally, my dogs eat a much higher volume of food when eating raw than kibble simply because of the inclusion of the moisture. Millie gets to eat a pound daily of raw food or less than 2 cups daily of kibble. (These are comparable amounts of raw vs. Orijen). Obviously a pound daily of raw food is much more filling than 2 cups of dry kibble.


----------



## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Wow! That's crazy! How big are your poodles? Tiger ate 4 patties (and still was skinny) when he ate this with his handler (he is a little over 25 inches tall and 48 lbs), Millie ate 2 patties (24.5 inches tall and 48 lbs) and Henry ate 3 patties (60 lbs. and 26.5 inches tall)


Both are about 43 (Stella may be up to 45) lbs..

going by the bag a 50 lb dog should eat 10 oz and one patty is 8oz. So Tiger should have less than 1.5 patties a day. Here is a calculator..from the NV site

Feeding Guide | Nature's Variety

You have commented before that you have a hard time putting weight on Tiger. He must just have a very fast metabolism. Madonna has gained 3 lbs since Ive had her eating just what I listed above

And NV has 95% meat and 5% veggies...but I do give some veggies at times.

The best bene of feeding such a perfect food is much less stool


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Ms Stella said:


> Both are about 43 (Stella may be up to 45) lbs..
> 
> going by the bag a 50 lb dog should eat 10 oz and one patty is 8oz. So Tiger should have less than 1.5 patties a day. Here is a calculator..from the NV site
> 
> ...


Yes, of course I have seen this calculator but I rarely listen to what companies tell me to feed my dog - quantity wise. It is a known fact in the raw feeding world that you feed approximately 2% of your dog's body weight in food. This means one pound for a 50 pound dog.


----------



## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Yes, of course I have seen this calculator but I rarely listen to what companies tell me to feed my dog - quantity wise. It is a known fact in the raw feeding world that you feed approximately 2% of your dog's body weight in food. This means one pound for a 50 pound dog.


again..I think you have to come around to the fact that there are other ways to have a healthy well fed dog than your way of doing it. Its great that you are so passionate about your choice of feeding..but as you can see many have healthy dogs on other quality fed foods  Feeding NV is not feeding whole bones as you do. Even Player gained weight on similiar amounts.


----------



## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I also think you need to take into account the kcals --- when I was trying to figure out what I should be feeding Sunny (I was feeding him too much for his activity level), if you strictly go by the body weight percentage, depending on the kcals it will be different for different foods. 5 ounces of Food A vs. 5 ounces of Food B. There may be a huge difference in the amount of fat/calories, etc., too, so do take that into account.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Ms Stella said:


> again..I think you have to come around to the fact that there are other ways to have a healthy well fed dog than your way of doing it. Its great that you are so passionate about your choice of feeding..but as you can see many have healthy dogs on other quality fed foods  Feeding NV is not feeding whole bones as you do. Even Player gained weight on similar amounts.


I understand that Nature's Variety is different from feeding a prey model diet and I believe I mentioned that difference in a previous post as well as the fact that a prey model diet without the inclusion of veggies is nutritionally different (its typically higher in fat and calories than NV raw patties.) Which is why I said that when feeding a prey model diet it would not be unusual to feed LESS food than when feeding Nature's Variety premade raw. That really IS beside the point though.

What you have to understand is that I have fed NV raw in the past, exclusively, for quite some time. Additionally, I *am not* saying in any way that my way of raw feeding is better than someone else's way of raw feeding. I'm surprised that you made that claim based on anything that I have said in this thread. Anyway, my point is simply that anyone reading this thread may find that 8 oz. daily is far from enough food for many standard poodles. . NV is an expensive food and one might be vastly disappointed when they find they have to feed twice as much as they had budgeted for...

I'm sharing knowledge.


----------



## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

I buy the 8 oz patties; they work out cheaper than the medallions. Beau is an oversize 16.5" mini, approx 22 lbs., and he gets a quarter of a patty (2 oz) twice a day, one 1/4 when he wakes me up at about 6:15 AM (which he does like clockwork) and the other at about 5:30 PM. When the last quarter is served, a new frozen patty goes into the fridge to thaw overnight. They are usually ready to go in the morning, albeit still a tiny bit frozen around the edges; Beau doesn't seem to mind that one bit. For some reason, the bison and lamb patties seem to thaw faster than the chicken, which thawed faster than the beef.

Two little quarter patties a day does not look like a lot of food, that's for sure! But if anything, we need to reduce our boy's calore intake, as he's kind of a couch potato and needs to loose a few pounds. In fact, we started with a 1/3 of a patty a day; his current 1/4 is already a reduced portion. Gotta reign in the treats!


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

liljaker said:


> I also think you need to take into account the kcals --- when I was trying to figure out what I should be feeding Sunny (I was feeding him too much for his activity level), if you strictly go by the body weight percentage, depending on the kcals it will be different for different foods. 5 ounces of Food A vs. 5 ounces of Food B. There may be a huge difference in the amount of fat/calories, etc., too, so do take that into account.


Of course. But with the inclusion of veggies NV is not as high in calories as a raw diet heavy in meat, low in bone, and without veggies. In the latter diet, it is suggested to feed an average of 1.5-3% of your dog's body weight (sometimes more, sometimes less) with 2% being the most commonly suggested percentage. You adjust as necessary but 1.5-3% is by far most common. Of course with an intact adolescent male you may feed 4% of their body weight and for an older spayed female pet you may feed 1.5%. 

http://www.primalpetfoods.com/education/calc

Disclaimer: I do NOT feed Primal or any commercial food so I am not trying to advocate their product over another product. They just seem to have some better information as far as raw feeding goes on their website.

Let me make an easy comparison to show that I am not making all of this up or trying to claim that my way of raw feeding is better than others'. If you go to Primal's website they have a much better feeding calculator that allows you to select the appropriate percentage of body weight for YOUR dog. It too suggests around 2% of body weight for weight maintenance. Each ounce of beef primal is 64 calories while each ounce of NV beef is 65 calories. Quite comparable. That said, for a 50 lb. dog Primal Recommends the expected 1 lb. average while NV recommends 10.8 oz. (based on average activity) for the same size dog.

8 oz. raw daily seems quite low for a 45-50 lb. dog but if a dog has a slow metabolism or is inactive it might make sense. Again, I just don't want someone with a young, active 50 lb. dog to budget for half the amount of food they might need to feed! That would be a horrendous awakening with his pricey NV is...

Stella, you do feed kibble too, right? Perhaps your dogs are picking up some extra calories from the kibble.


----------



## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Of course. But with the inclusion of veggies NV is not as high in calories as a raw diet heavy in meat, low in bone, and without veggies. In the latter diet, it is suggested to feed an average of 1.5-3% of your dog's body weight (sometimes more, sometimes less) with 2% being the most commonly suggested percentage. You adjust as necessary but 1.5-3% is by far most common. Of course with an intact adolescent male you may feed 4% of their body weight and for an older spayed female pet you may feed 1.5%.
> 
> NV is about 65 KCal per oz..so 8 oz is 520 Kcal plus or minus a small handful of kibble.
> 
> ...


NV is 65Kcal per oz..I have no idea what your diet is per oz..so 520 Kcal's a day is what Stella should have between 520 and about 750..But more importantly..she gained weight on it. Player gained weight on it and now so has madonna. I feed Madonna some kibble and Stella will get a small handful sometimes. They both get freeze dried liver treats as well.

We have more and more people on it now..we could do our own survey..sort of like..."what is your dogs weight, ideal weight, and activity level... and amount you feed of NV."

When ever someone changes foods and styles of feeding there will be trial and error..to find the correct amount for their dog.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Ms Stella said:


> NV is 65Kcal per oz..I have no idea what your diet is per oz..so 520 Kcal's a day is what Stella should have between 520 and about 750..But more importantly..she gained weight on it. Player gained weight on it and now so has madonna. I feed Madonna some kibble and Stella will get a small handful sometimes. They both get freeze dried liver treats as well.
> 
> We have more and more people on it now..we could do our own survey..sort of like..."what is your dogs weight, ideal weight, and activity level... and amount you feed of NV."
> 
> When ever someone changes foods and styles of feeding there will be trial and error..to find the correct amount for their dog.


As I said too in the above post, and then you verified, NV beef is 65 calories per ounce. Primal beef is 64 calories per ounce and recommends feeding 2.5% of body weight for maintenance so your quote _"No were does it suggest that you feed NV as you feed your diet..yes, 2% of your food is correct..but 2% of body wt is not correct for NV. I have no idea what the Kcal's are for your diet..." _ is incorrect. There is nothing special about *my diet* vs. Nature's Variety raw except that NV includes veggies and is lower in calories than *my diet*. And, you're ignoring that *I fed Nature's Variety for an extended period of time exclusively* which is my basis for this conversation so I don't know what you mean by *my diet*.

Obviously the amount that you are feeding your dogs is working for them. MY POINT is that I just didn't want people to think that the very small amount you are feeding is at all representative of what most people would be feeding their dogs on *premade raw*.

Anyone considering feeding a raw diet _should_ calculate 1.5-3% of their dog's body weight to determine a rough approximate of how much they might need to feed. Whether premade or *my diet*.

The average caloric intact for a 45-50 lb. neutered dog is 1,000-1,200 calories.


----------



## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

CharismaticMillie said:


> As I said too in the above post, and then you verified, NV beef is 65 calories per ounce. Primal beef is 64 calories per ounce and recommends feeding 2.5% of body weight for maintenance so your quote _"No were does it suggest that you feed NV as you feed your diet..yes, 2% of your food is correct..but 2% of body wt is not correct for NV. I have no idea what the Kcal's are for your diet..." _ is incorrect. There is nothing special about *my diet* vs. Nature's Variety raw except that NV includes veggies and is lower in calories than *my diet*. And, you're ignoring that *I fed Nature's Variety for an extended period of time exclusively* which is my basis for this conversation so I don't know what you mean by *my diet*.
> 
> Obviously the amount that you are feeding your dogs is working for them. MY POINT is that I just didn't want people to think that the very small amount you are feeding is at all representative of what most people would be feeding their dogs on *premade raw*.
> 
> Anyone considering feeding a raw diet _should_ calculate 1.5-3% of their dog's body weight to determine a rough approximate of how much they might need to feed. Whether premade or *my diet*.


I believe many dogs would get fat if they ate that much NV..but you may be right and you may know more than Natures Variety. Your dogs may be the outliers..and require more than the average dog. 

Again, I think it would be nice to conduct an experiment if you really want to know.

For me and for the others who have posted here...the package seems to be the correct amount. But honestly it doesnt matter to me, because it is working beautifully. I just dont want people to read your very confident posts and think that the feeding schedule provided by the company is wrong.

You didnt say....what is the calorie intake you feed?


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Ms Stella said:


> I believe many dogs would get fat if they ate that much NV..but you may be right and you may know more than Natures Variety. Your dogs may be the outliers..and require more than the average dog.
> 
> Again, I think it would be nice to conduct an experiment if you really want to know.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying that what you are doing is wrong, Stella. Some of your posts seem to imply that you are thinking I am suggesting such. I'm just saying that MANY raw feeders who feed Nature's Variety raw feed a more normal amount of 2% per body weight. I am giving the other side of the story. I believe that if you talked to enough people you'd find that 8 oz. is very little for a 45 lb. dog. (YOU are lucky! NV is expensive!) Clearly it should make sense to you now that I've explained that Primal is (nearly) calorically identical and recommends approx. 2%. Again, my purpose is only to show the other side of the story so someone does not expect to feed half of what they may need to feed.

Of course I don't know more than Nature's Variety. But it is again fairly typical for the amounts that dog food companies suggest feeding to be somewhat inaccurate. 

As for the calories of my dogs' diet, it varies greatly. At one time when I was still feeding a true prey model diet I calculated everything out using the USDA database. I looked at an average for several individual days and then took a look at the weekly average Because my dogs' diet is different each meal, some meals were quite low in calories (say a chicken quarter) but others were quite a bit higher in calories (pork ribs with plenty of liver) and others were very high in calories (boneless pork). What I fed tended to be significantly higher in fat, too. I'd calculate a typical week for you but unfortunately I cannot for the life of me figure out what happened to the USDA nutrient database.
---

Anyway, I don't know why this has turned into such an argument. I just wanted to present the other side of the story to be helpful. My dogs would be skinny minnies if they ate the amount that NV suggests. I fed Mils 12-14 oz. daily of NV for a month and she lost 3 pounds! And she does NOT have a particularly fast metabolism.


----------



## RileysMommy (Jul 18, 2011)

Well, so far, no luck with the NV! Riley wont touch it! I tried to give it to him for breakfast and he sniffed it and walked away. Sometimes he doesnt eat right away but, as you all know, I cant leave this out for him to have whenever he decides to eat! I'm hoping that soon he'll figure out that he has to eat NOW or else wait until next meal time! I tried giving him a piece on a fork when I got home from work...sniffed and walked away. 
I'm hoping by dinner time he'll be hungry enough to at least TRY it!


----------



## Apres Argent (Aug 9, 2010)

*raw feeding*

My poodles range from 45 to 60 pounds and eat between a pound in a half and 2 pounds of raw meat bones and organ daily. They are not fat nor to thin. They are very active and well muscled. With dogs like people the calorie charts do not always fit. A dog should eat between 2 and 3 percent of ideal body weight as a starting point and adjust as needed. 
My guy's do not like the prepared raw patties but will eat the meat only ground mixes. I use Ziwipeak as treats.


----------



## Kloliver (Jan 17, 2012)

Hey RileysMommy,

Congrats on the raw feeding embarkment. It's amazing for your fur-babies. 

Just a little heads up.... IF the kids don't seem crazy about the texture it's probably because of the HPP processing. I describe it as sticky or gummy. Rango hated both Stella's & NV & the common element was the HPP- High Pressure Pasteurization.

_"High Pressure Pasteurization (HPP) is becoming more widespread in the world of raw pet food. Primal announced early this week that they will be using HPP on their poultry products. They join Stella & Chewey’s and Nature’s Variety in utilizing this additional step of processing raw diets. [ARGHHHHHHHHH!] 

HPP is a process which uses pressure to kill pathogens in food. The product is submerged in a water bath, and then pressurized for a brief period of time. Since pressure is applied evenly from all directions, the product remains intact. There is a slight temperature rise during the 3 minute process, and the benefits of pasteurization are achieved without added heat."_

More info here: 

HPP pet food may have benefits, but it is NOT raw | TheDailyBite's Blog

HPP and Raw Food Diets | Smiley Dog News - Seattle, WA


----------



## RileysMommy (Jul 18, 2011)

Oooh! Well, he wouldnt even TASTE it earlier but I did notice that it was kind of sticky when I pinched a piece off to try and hand feed some to him!

I would love to do REAL raw...but, I dont have a clue how to figure all the %'s and would be scared I'd have him all messed up! 

If he doesnt take to this one, the beef, I might try the chicken. But, if that doesnt work maybe we'll just do dry food with RMBs a couple times a week?


----------



## Kloliver (Jan 17, 2012)

RileysMommy said:


> Oooh! Well, he wouldnt even TASTE it earlier but I did notice that it was kind of sticky when I pinched a piece off to try and hand feed some to him!
> 
> I would love to do REAL raw...but, I dont have a clue how to figure all the %'s and would be scared I'd have him all messed up!
> 
> If he doesnt take to this one, the beef, I might try the chicken. But, if that doesnt work maybe we'll just do dry food with RMBs a couple times a week?


If you search my posts with raw as the subject you will run into a link to a raw feeding book my local raw food guru vet recommends. I am realising more & more that we humans are NOT great at balancing things over the long run (which explains the obesity epidemic, really)


----------



## Apres Argent (Aug 9, 2010)

*Raw feeding*

There are lots of resources found with a google search. Raw diets are balanced over time much like our diets, as long you feed a wide variety of meats, fish, organs with liver being the bulk of the organ you feed it works out perfectly.


----------



## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

He won't eat NV raw? It's official: Riley wins the Blue Ribbon for pickiest eater!

(Beau says, "Tell Riley I will happily gobble down _his_ food, too!")


----------



## RileysMommy (Jul 18, 2011)

LEUllman said:


> He won't eat NV raw? It's official: Riley wins the Blue Ribbon for pickiest eater!
> 
> (Beau says, "Tell Riley I will happily gobble down _his_ food, too!")



LOL It's true! I even put some ketchup on a small piece...no go! I tried cheese on another small piece...still no go! I dont know what the problem is! Maybe it's just one of those days? I was SO excited about this...and now....well, I'm just frustrated!!

I'm making a roast for dinner...I'm going to dip a small piece in the juice from that later. If he would just TRY it! LOL I can deal with it if he doesnt like it...I just want him to taste it and see!


----------



## Kloliver (Jan 17, 2012)

Apres Argent said:


> There are lots of resources found with a google search. Raw diets are balanced over time much like our diets, as long you feed a wide variety of meats, fish, organs with liver being the bulk of the organ you feed it works out perfectly.


At the risk of hijacking the original thread....

Through mtgs with holistic vets & much research, I have revised my own personal opinion on this & therefore must respectfully disagree. There are critical growth periods where this approach cld be dicey. I now would never opt for an 'over time' approach while any dog is still growing ie/ before the growth plates close & before they've acquired their adult muscle mass.

Also, it is very hard to balance the correct meat to bone ratio in whole raw parts. I have done both so I now see where deficiencies have been.

All that said, let the post return to it's original intent. Raw feeding in any way is a step fwd in better nutrition.


----------



## Kloliver (Jan 17, 2012)

RileysMommy said:


> LOL It's true! I even put some ketchup on a small piece...no go! I tried cheese on another small piece...still no go! I dont know what the problem is! Maybe it's just one of those days? I was SO excited about this...and now....well, I'm just frustrated!!
> 
> I'm making a roast for dinner...I'm going to dip a small piece in the juice from that later. If he would just TRY it! LOL I can deal with it if he doesnt like it...I just want him to taste it and see!


Often times, your pet boutique will take product back as they are fully covered by the manufacturer & don't lose money in the process. Stella & Chewy's does for sure, I know.

I feel your pain, I still have a NV chub taking up space in my freezer. Must remember to donate it (I bought it somewhere other than my usual store so they're less likely to help me out.)

FYI- Primal is really meaty & Bravo is also hugely attractive for the texture pickys


----------



## RileysMommy (Jul 18, 2011)

*Success!!*

Riley normally eats dinner at the same time my husband and I do! So, while we were eating...I gave Riley 1/4 of a pattie with a TINY drop of roast juice on each piece....he GOBBLED it up! So, I gave him another 1/4 (since he didnt eat at breakfast and his daily portion is 1/2 patty) and he ate most of it too!! 
I think he's a little unsure of the texture but I do believe he liked it!! It almost looked like he had a mouth full of peanut butter! But, HE ATE IT!!!! Maybe he'll do better with it if it isnt COMPLETELY defrosted but still a little firm.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Kloliver said:


> At the risk of hijacking the original thread....
> 
> Through mtgs with holistic vets & much research, I have revised my own personal opinion on this & therefore must respectfully disagree. There are critical growth periods where this approach cld be dicey. I now would never opt for an 'over time' approach while any dog is still growing ie/ before the growth plates close & before they've acquired their adult muscle mass.
> 
> ...


You are of course entitled to your opinion. However I will add that I actually found it rather easy to balance meat to bone ratio. The USDA database is quite helpful with that. 

In the end, when it comes to this specific matter all we have are opinions and anecdotal evidence. Well, we also have common sense which says that if we can balance the diet of our own human children and ourselves over time, we can surely balance our dog's diet over time. I'm not sure about you but I sure haven't seen any wolves outside balancing their daily dietary intake.

There may be an obesity problem but I have found that those who are willing to do the research and go beyond conventional, popular methods of feeding their dogs to provide the utmost nutrition are also more than likely taking steps for their own personal health. Education is the answer to many problems. In other words, those who can hardly manage to keep their own body healthy might be less likely to be feeding the optimal diet for their pets. Or, those who are taking the step to feed raw may be more capable of balancing a diet over time than the general "obese" population that can hardly keep themselves healthy.

While your experience with holistic vets has led you towards your opinion, my experience with my holistic (and traditional) vets have led me toward my opinion.


----------



## Kloliver (Jan 17, 2012)

RileysMommy said:


> Riley normally eats dinner at the same time my husband and I do! So, while we were eating...I gave Riley 1/4 of a pattie with a TINY drop of roast juice on each piece....he GOBBLED it up! So, I gave him another 1/4 (since he didnt eat at breakfast and his daily portion is 1/2 patty) and he ate most of it too!!
> I think he's a little unsure of the texture but I do believe he liked it!! It almost looked like he had a mouth full of peanut butter! But, HE ATE IT!!!! Maybe he'll do better with it if it isnt COMPLETELY defrosted but still a little firm.


AWESOME!!!! I'm sure he will enjoy many flavours & brands over the years.


----------



## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

It seems Riley likes cooked meats..and not raw. There are people here who feed cooked meat. Maybe they will PM you..most dont want to discuss feeding prefernce because people get so fiesty about it. But I received a lot of support and info via PM when I was looking for healthy choices originally. Wishing you luck! Stella was picky but loves NV..I hope ou find something you that he will gobble up daily.


----------



## Kloliver (Jan 17, 2012)

Here's the book I mentioned: It has recipes for cats & dogs to be served raw & or cooked.

Welcome to Dogwise.com

Here's the Whole Dog Journals reviews of "the Best Books on Home-Prepared Dog Food Diets on the Market"
Whole Dog Journal - A Review of the Best Books on Home-Prepared Dog Food Diets on the Market - Web Only Article


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I can't imagine anyone not wanting to share cooked diet information publicly on this forum! I know we've got plenty of cooked feeders who share regularly.


----------



## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I want to add that Leroy is a NV veteran! He loves that stuff. I switched to prepared raw when I wanted to put some weight on him. He was 47lbs at around 10 months. I felt for his height that was a low weight. I fed him 3 NV patties a day, then I switched to prey model raw because I felt the NV patties were pricey for the amount he was eating. He loves any type of raw meat. In the 6-7 months he's been raw fed, he has gained 16lbs, and his weight is around 63lbs. He's 27" - his vet told me he has at a great weight. He described him as "an athletic teenage boy with good muscle tone, but lean and strong" so he told me to not to let him get past 70lbs. On prey model raw, he is fed 18-24 oz a day. I vary it depending on what I'm feeding and what his activity level is - his typical meal will be around 9oz twice a day. He is one of those poodles that if he skips a meal, he will puke bile (one night I forgot to feed him, he is fed every morning and evening). I guess the amount he eats will sound like a lot to some people, but he is maintaining his current weight at it. Every dog is different so will require different things, but this is what works for my standard poodle. 

I switched my Havanese over to premade raw and he's eating the NV patties. He loves it, but I ran out of it one night and gave him some of Leroy's food and he gobbled that up too. I'll be switching him to the same stuff Leroy is eating in a couple of weeks. I'm also trying to put some meat on his bones and I actually feed him 6-8 oz of food. He's a little guy under 12lbs.... and I feel like the NV stuff I'm feeding him isn't enough! I know 8 oz of food may seem like a lot for a toy size, but his activity level is almost the same as Leroy's. He does whatever Leroy likes to do. He keeps up with him on all his walks. Sometimes when Leroy is tired, Louis is still ready for more playing! I don't think he is used to the high activity level thus why I'm feeding him slightly more. Once he's gained the weight I want, I will dial down his food intake to around 5-6 oz.

I calculate how much I should be feeding by following 2% of body weight for maintaining weight and 2.5-3% for weight gain. I also feel my dogs' body to see if they need more or less food. I think food should be a fun thing for a dog, so I try to vary it as much as possible, so not every day will be the same calculations. I feel like if it's varied enough, they will get the proper nutrition over the long run.


----------

