# Not Playing Nice with Others!



## RedPoodleFamily (Aug 22, 2010)

Hello everyone! Our red standard, Max is 13 weeks old. A few weeks ago our neighbors got a rescue dog (boston terrier/lab mix); she is about a month or so older than Max. This weekend we thought we'd introduce them to each other and see if they wanted to play. Max hasn't had too much interaction with other dogs so I was worried and on alert. At first they did the sniffing, there was some chasing and jumping and it seemed fine. Tia (the neighbor dog) was calm and playful. Max seemed to get more intense as the minutes passed until he was jumping on her back and biting at her (he never bit or hurt her). He was also barking and sounding really vicious. I kept breaking them up and giving him some time to calm down but as soon as I'd set him down he'd go right back after her. She never did anything to provoke him, she never even barked back at him. 
We are starting puppy training on the 6th and he will be in a class with atleast 5 other dogs (and possibly Tia) so he will be socializing soon. I was just wondering if this is something normal until he gets time with other dogs or should I be concerned-he was getting really aggressive. We even tried again the next day and he started acting that way immediately. Could he be jealous of another dog in the yard? Tia was playing and running with our 3 year old and she was laughing and loving it, could that have made him jealous?
Any thoughts are appreciated!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Hmm..well without seeing your dog's body language I can't say for sure, but this might be perfectly normal! Millie has never been a "calm" player with other dogs or puppies. She growls, barks, bites legs, alligator mouths other dogs, bites ears, etc. All in play. Puppies can play very rough sometimes and they learn what's it's too rough from other dog's responses. 

Was he biting at her back in an aggressive way or in a playful way? Maybe he was just trying to get the other dog to chase after him? How was the other dog responding to his biting and barking? 

Or, maybe he was being aggressive. In that case you definitely want to see how he handles puppy class and talk to the trainers there. Good luck!


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

They seem to go through a crazy dog period at about that age.

I was lucky in that there is a good group of nice dogs in the park next door. The adult dogs are very tolerant of puppies, but are happy to correct them when they get out of line. When Vasco got out of line, Bruno the Bernese Mountain Dog and self-appointed Keeper of the Peace quickly sorted him out. 

You were right to do time-outs if he was really bothering the other dog, but I wouldn't worry about it being aggression. At his age, he just hasn't learned the difference between play that is ok and play that is too rough. Another dog is the best teacher for this, although puppies usually get a free ride until they get to be about 5 months. After that, they need kind adult dogs to snarl at them when they play too rough.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Sounds like fairly typical, over exuberant puppy play to me, too. If the other pup is not worried by it, there is probably no problem, but gentle time outs to calm down are a good idea if he seems to be getting over excited. Puppy play can seem ferocious when you first witness it, but if you pay careful attention to body language and tone of voice, you will soon spot the signs if things are getting hectic. Does he back off if his playmate freezes briefly, or turns her head away, for example? I don't think it is jealousy or aggression - just huge excitement at having another puppy to play with!

At this age the more nice dogs he meets the better - he is forgetting the lessons learned from Mum and litter mates, and needs them reinforced by other dogs and puppies. Sometimes this will mean getting very firmly told off when he oversteps the mark, with a snarl and a snap - many owners get fearful, and keep their pup away from other dogs because of this - and the puppy gets ever more frustrated and reactive around dogs, until a real problem develops. The more you socialise him now, the easier life will be for him and you in the future - especiallly when he hits adolescence and his puppy licence runs out, as JE says! Have you seen the Dogstar Daily website? Lots of good advice on socialising puppies, and other puppy raising issues. Turid Rugaas little book on Calming Signals is a fascinating guide to how dogs use body language to defuse potentially scary situations.


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## RedPoodleFamily (Aug 22, 2010)

His way to play seems to be to chase the dog down, jump widly at her, then jump onto her back and bite at her head and neck area. The first 2 days they played together Tia just kind of lied down when he did all that or would get down in the play position (front paws stretched out, tail in the air) which Max would interpret as "go ahead and jump on my back or head" and he would proceed to do. What would really get me was when he wouldn't let her up and start to make that vicious sounding snap/snarl at her while biting at her. 
Last night we carved our pumpkin and took it outside to the porch and Tia was out front having her last walk. We let them off their leashes to play and it seemed as though he was better. Tia was also responding a lot more with her own biting and barking and jumping back at him, which seemed to help. It would give him pause for a second when she did that. It also seemed like they chased each other more than bit at each other too and he didn't make as many nasty sounding snarls. Although once he did grab her collar with his mouth and flip her over! :biggrin:


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Definitely sounds better - she is learning how to steer the play, and he is responding. Do try to find him other playmates - and take him to meet lots of well-socialised adult dogs - they learn so much more from each other about how to speak Dog than we can ever hope to teach them!


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## Lilith (Sep 29, 2010)

Interstingly, I'm watching "It's Me or the Dog" on DVD at the moment, and they are talking exactly about how to read doggy body language to see if play is really play or something more serious. Good show. Hilarious to watch Lilith while the show is on (lots of angry dog barking, people yelling "SIT!" "GOOD GIRL!" etc. HA!)

There's also a book caled Canine Body Language that I'd recommend. Great pictures that help with reading a dog's mood better.

Definitely worthwhile to learn more about dog calming signals and body language, because I agree that it can be confusing to a human to tell what is good play and what is over the top and what is about to get serious.


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## buttercup123 (Oct 7, 2010)

He could just be a loud player, lots of dogs are.
My one dog sounds horrible when se gets super excited, people will some times pull their dogs away thinking she's being aggressive.

Let the dogs work it out themselves unless the other dog is clearly stressed or any real aggression starts but with a pupp his age I wouldnt think it's any type of aggression.


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

At this age, aggression is HIGHLY unlikely. Get him around older dogs that will teach him "the rules" of how to play properly. Also, if I were you, I would start getting him out and socializing him with dogs right away. Don't wait any longer.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Some dogs play too hard. While it may be natural, I don't think you have to put up with it. I think you can teach dogs to be more gentle. Because I have show dogs, I can't let my Standards bite on each other. I teach them to "get a baby" which means pick up a stuffy toy and run around or play tug with that. Even very young puppies (14 weeks) can be taught this.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

cbrand said:


> Some dogs play too hard. While it may be natural, I don't think you have to put up with it. I think you can teach dogs to be more gentle. Because I have show dogs, I can't let my Standards bite on each other. I teach them to "get a baby" which means pick up a stuffy toy and run around or play tug with that. Even very young puppies (14 weeks) can be taught this.


Leila does this with Enzo it is natural and normal but I would nip it in the butt asap. Leila will get so crazy she starts to grow and bite and I can't have this since her and Enzo need coat. This is just one reason why i stop this type of play. The main reason is when the dog gets older it can turn into aggression or other dogs may see this as aggression then you will have a dog fight on your hands. 

Some times you have to teach your puppy how to play properly.


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