# Bringing puppy across the border into US



## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

arreau explained it in another thread, but i've forgotten which one. perhaps she will be kind enough to do so again.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

The US Center for Disease control passed a regulation last August stating that no puppy could cross from Canada to US until a minimum of four months old. The youngest it is possible to vaccinate for rabies is 3 months then there has to be a 30 day wait period prior till crossing the border. They will also consider a "confinement agreement" which, if the importer followed it to the letter would turn the puppy into a complete nut bar. Not healthy psychologically at all. The pup would be best to stay with the breeder. I do not believe there are any regulations like this shipping a puppy from the US to Canada.

I will say that more Americans have not let this look for a US breeder tan I would've thought. A lot of young families just do not have time to housebreak, crate train, leash train, and by the time they get their pup at four months old, most of this is done for them.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> The US Center for Disease control passed a regulation last August stating that no puppy could cross from Canada to US until a minimum of four months old.
> 
> I will say that more Americans have not let this look for a US breeder tan I would've thought.


I really appreciate your answer as I was wondering what they were referring to.
Goodness, this seems like a strange regulation. Do you have a link to the site that explains this? (Especially if there is an abbreviated summary, plus a post to the longer regulation).

The second sentence I do not understand....


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I will say that more Americans have not let this look for a US breeder tan I would've thought. A lot of young families just do not have time to housebreak, crate train, leash train, and by the time they get their pup at four months old, most of this is done for them.
__________________

I am so sorry. That paragraph did not end up at all like it was typed. This was supposed to say that most Americans searching for a puppy do not turn off knowing the pups have to be a minimum of four months old because a lot of young families just do not have time to housebreak, crate train, leash train, and by the time they get their pup at four months old, most of this is done for them.

Link to the new CDC rules and regulations: Dogs | Bringing an Animal into U.S. | Animal Importation | CDC

Link to confinement agreement information: Dog Confinement Agreement Notice | Laws & Regulations | Animal Importation | CDC


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Thanks Arreau,

So glad you clarified what should have been in your original post. Sometimes what we think we typed just gets discombobulated. 

Yes, I would think most folks would be very happy to get a pup that has stayed with it's mother and the breeder for further socialization and potty/crate/leash training. That makes extra work for you as the breeder though for sure!

Gracious, I just read the US CDC guidelines. What a bother. Either someone has gotten carried away writing regulations, or there was one tiny dog that came from somewhere that had rabies, so they made a world wide regulation. 

I had recently been looking into international travel with my Spoo, who happens to be my Service Dog, so recognize some of the countries where it is difficult to travel (apparently because they have no rabies). For example the United Kingdom, where I have heard it is easier to travel first to Belgium or France and then cross to England on the ferry in order to make it easier to get there with your dog.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

kontiki said:


> Thanks Arreau,
> 
> So glad you clarified what should have been in your original post. Sometimes what we think we typed just gets discombobulated.
> 
> ...


This country has_ altogether _gotten carried away with writing regulations. Regulations, regulations, bans, laws, more regulations, new laws until we're in a stranglehold so constricting, we can't move without breaking a regulation. We're probably all breaking rules and regulations without even knowing it. 

I hope you can find a breeder in the U.S. or get an older puppy. That just sounds awful. I wonder how many people will go for that confinement, not knowing how cruel that would be to a puppy and how messed up he would become. Three months old is too darn young to be giving rabies shots. I think even 4 months old is too young. If I lived in northern Michigan, I would try to find someone in the US if I wanted a young puppy, even if it meant a longer trek. Good luck with however you work this. New puppies are so much fun.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> This country has_ altogether _gotten carried away with writing regulations. Regulations, regulations, bans, laws, more regulations, new laws until we're in a stranglehold so constricting, we can't move without breaking a regulation. We're probably all breaking rules and regulations without even knowing it.
> 
> .



You can say that again - how scary to think that that you could get convicted of breaking a meaningless rule or regulation that you didn't even know that you were breaking! It could ruin your reputation, because once you are convicted of something, very few people will bother to stop and find out what it was :-(


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> You can say that again - how scary to think that that you could get convicted of breaking a meaningless rule or regulation that you didn't even know that you were breaking! It could ruin your reputation, because once you are convicted of something, very few people will bother to stop and find out what it was :-(


There are some meaningless rules and regulations or just flat out too many. And then there are some laws that protect animals that some people, unfortunately need because they don't know how to draw the line for themselves and cause harm. Most of us don't need a regulation to know how to not be cruel to animals. But meaningless regulations that wind up hurting dogs, such as having to give Poodle puppies rabies vaccines at 3 months of age or else confine them for so long they become basket cases are very bad regulations and should be eliminated.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> There are some meaningless rules and regulations or just flat out too many. And then there are some laws that protect animals that some people, unfortunately need because they don't know how to draw the line for themselves and cause harm. Most of us don't need a regulation to know how to not be cruel to animals. But meaningless regulations that wind up hurting dogs, such as having to give Poodle puppies rabies vaccines at 3 months of age or else confine them for so long they become basket cases are very bad regulations and should be eliminated.



Problem is, "animal rights" organizations like PETA and The Humane Society have huge wallets to lobby for some pretty subjective laws, that many dog owners would totally disagree with.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Yes, I do not like Peta.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Yes, I do not like Peta.



Don't move to VA!


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Are there regulations for bringing a pregnant female across the border into the US? 
Are there regulations for taking a puppy across the border into Canada?


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

kontiki said:


> Are there regulations for bringing a pregnant female across the border into the US?
> Are there regulations for taking a puppy across the border into Canada?


Hmm - I did not get an answer on this. Still wondering.... If a great female could be brought into the US that was already pregnant there might be possibilities....


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

We can thank rescues for the new rules. Some of them have been moving dogs into and out of areas with no concern with for proper quarantine procedures. Some of them turned out to be rabid... 
Vermont 
Another article


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Same regulations are in effect for adults as puppies, rabies shot then 30 day wait period before bringing in. HOWEVER you can bring in a dog from some European nations without the fuss as they are considered rabies free. So expect to see more European imports in our future and less Canada to America imports and even fewer dogs crossing the border for shows.


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## ApricotsRock (Jan 10, 2014)

I'd like to know the regulations on the wild animals that carry rabies that freely walk back and forth to Canada. 

Geesh. Canada is our neighbor for goodness sake.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

kontiki said:


> Hmm - I did not get an answer on this. Still wondering.... If a great female could be brought into the US that was already pregnant there might be possibilities....


The problem with this idea is that when a momma dog is pregnant and especially when she is delivering and caring for her babies, she really needs the support of her human family and she needs to be in the home that she knows and loves. Of course there are marginal breeders that pay no attention at all to the needs of the momma dogs and would send them anywhere if they could make a buck. But if you want puppies that have been given a good start in life by being cared for an emotionally stable and fully supported momma, then the momma needs to be comfortable in her surroundings and supported by the people she knows and loves.

I'd rather get a 4 month old puppy from Arreau than an 8 or 9 week old puppy from someone who ships a pregnant bitch to an unfamiliar place to have her puppies.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

spindledreams said:


> We can thank rescues for the new rules. Some of them have been moving dogs into and out of areas with no concern with for proper quarantine procedures. Some of them turned out to be rabid...
> Vermont
> Another article


Some scary stories there. Obviously though a dog or cat with rabies can come from anywhere. 

It is so sad that they had to make these difficult rules making it so difficult to get some great dogs from Canada into the US


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

peppersb said:


> The problem with this idea is that when a momma dog is pregnant and especially when she is delivering and caring for her babies, she really needs the support of her human family and she needs to be in the home that she knows and loves. Of course there are marginal breeders that pay no attention at all to the needs of the momma dogs and would send them anywhere if they could make a buck. But if you want puppies that have been given a good start in life by being cared for an emotionally stable and fully supported momma, then the momma needs to be comfortable in her surroundings and supported by the people she knows and loves.
> 
> I'd rather get a 4 month old puppy from Arreau than an 8 or 9 week old puppy from someone who ships a pregnant bitch to an unfamiliar place to have her puppies.


You are so right. It shows that I was not thinking clearly when I was trying to brainstorm ways to circumvent the regulations!


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

there is always artificial insemination if you have a bitch you think good enough to breed and the owner of the male dog agrees. i don't think there's a law preventing sperm in that situation from crossing borders.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

ApricotsRock said:


> I'd like to know the regulations on the wild animals that carry rabies that freely walk back and forth to Canada.
> 
> Geesh. Canada is our neighbor for goodness sake.


This is my exact argument. Bats and other wildlife cross the border constantly. The stupid thing about all of this is IF a breeder can prove the mother's shots are current, the pups will have immunity. The only way things are going to change is if everyone contacts their senators and has a good, clear explanation for why this regulation is ludicrous. 

For breeders like myself, we are going to be placing some of our breeding girls in US homes and some of the pups going to US homes will be sold from a US destination. A WHOLE lot less bother

And to answer about a pregnant female crossing over...if her rabies shots are current and ownership can be proven, there would be no issue. And so far, pups coming FROM the US to Canada do not face these ridiculous restrictions.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I also by choice follow a low vaccine protocol schedule (Dr. Dobbs’). So I believe that would mean not giving the rabies vaccine until 20 weeks, and then it would be another 30 days to meet the regulation. That would be a puppy about 6 months old before being able to cross the border!

Wow, I am so glad to hear that you will have pups available in the US Arreau! How exciting. What a bother though for you to have to do that. Has that already happened?


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## Denver (Aug 16, 2015)

*what about sellers of young pups out of canada?*

This is such an interesting discussion to me because I was all set to purchase an 8-wk-old pup out of Canada, with the airline reservation made from VT to Denver. Something in the whole deal was very fishy, esp. because they wanted all the money in cash before sending the puppy. This was Glow Poodles, supposedly out of Quebec. I had to pull out because I couldn't in good conscience pay with a "gift" payment instead of a transaction payment on paypal. One good thing is that I tried to pay them several ways, and all of these payment services wouldn't let me because they suspected a scam (Western Union, Visa, etc.). Now I'm back to square one looking for a beautiful mini


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I would not put a pup on a plane without being paid in full before departure. I know most people are honest, but it would be very easy for someone to get their pup and then decide not to pay you anything once it has arrived. I do not think that is fishy at all.


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## Denver (Aug 16, 2015)

*thank you ...*

I see what you're saying, but now I'm wondering if it was even possible to bring and 8-week-old pup across the border as she would not be vaccinated as required by US law. I'm not even certain, now, that it is possible to purchase a puppy that young out of Canada and other "rabies under control" countries.

But I do see what you're saying about the payment. I didn't know this breeder well enough to take that step and I had no recommendation for her except her very flashy website.

Best wishes


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

kontiki said:


> I also by choice follow a low vaccine protocol schedule (Dr. Dobbs’). So I believe that would mean not giving the rabies vaccine until 20 weeks, and then it would be another 30 days to meet the regulation. That would be a puppy about 6 months old before being able to cross the border!
> 
> Wow, I am so glad to hear that you will have pups available in the US Arreau! How exciting. What a bother though for you to have to do that. Has that already happened?


We have a couple of breeding males in the US already and one of the females from our Journey/Quincy litter will be living in the US with her pups whelped there. We also have three homes lined up for breeding girls in the US in the future. We are trying to time everything around who we are currently breeding, so some of them will be retiring around the time some of the new girls begin being bred. And we do have some very exciting plans, so are still busy working on good homes for more breeding girls.

With regard to semen...you have quite a tight window for getting it to its destination when it is chilled or frozen, and I have heard of it being tied up at the border and being rendered useless. Semen is a bodily fluid after all, and rabies can be transmitted through any bodily fluid. So our future modus operandi includes taking some of our boys across and having them collected and semen frozen on the US side, so it can be shipped FROM a US vet to a US breeder who requires it. This is all such a pain in the buttinsky, BUT with planning and forethought, it can be done.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Denver said:


> I see what you're saying, but now I'm wondering if it was even possible to bring and 8-week-old pup across the border as she would not be vaccinated as required by US law. I'm not even certain, now, that it is possible to purchase a puppy that young out of Canada and other "rabies under control" countries.
> 
> But I do see what you're saying about the payment. I didn't know this breeder well enough to take that step and I had no recommendation for her except her very flashy website.
> 
> Best wishes


Denver, I posted a bunch of info for you in your intro thread. Hope it helps.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Denver said:


> .... now I'm wondering if it was even possible to bring and 8-week-old pup across the border as she would not be vaccinated as required by US law. I'm not even certain, now, that it is possible to purchase a puppy that young out of Canada and other "rabies under control" countries.


I would be very hesitant to send $ to a Canadian breeder that thinks an 8 week old puppy can go across the border into the US. ....... Perhaps they do not know the current laws? 

As Arreau has said in a previous answer.... "On Aug. 11, 2014 the US Center for Disease Control changed the regulations about pups going into the US from other countries. They now have to be at least four months old with a rabies shot 30 days prior to importation. This means the youngest a pup can go from Canada to the US is 4 months because a rabies shot cannot be done sooner than 3 months." 

(there is a quarantine exception but it is not recommended)

Hoping you find an awesome Mpoo soon


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## sophie anne (Feb 17, 2015)

kontiki said:


> I would be very hesitant to send $ to a Canadian breeder that thinks an 8 week old puppy can go across the border into the US. ....... Perhaps they do not know the current laws?
> 
> As Arreau has said in a previous answer.... "On Aug. 11, 2014 the US Center for Disease Control changed the regulations about pups going into the US from other countries. They now have to be at least four months old with a rabies shot 30 days prior to importation. This means the youngest a pup can go from Canada to the US is 4 months because a rabies shot cannot be done sooner than 3 months."
> 
> ...


Glow Poodles was willing to do the same for me and said it wouldn't be an issue. I also passed on the puppy because it felt odd that what she was doing is out of line with the current US law. She does have a VERY flashy website! I was worried that something would happen on the day of departure, resulting in my pup being detained and held for quarantine or (God forbid!) destroyed, and that risk was not something I was willing to take!!

I found my perfect pup, and I'm sure Denver will too!!


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