# Should I worry?..Henry's lip changed color!



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

ONE of Henry's bottom lips (well, the inside part, by the teeth, that flap?) went from black to liver/pink! IT was not like this earlier today. It also looks slightly inflamed. It looks like Millie's lips. Should I be concerned? What could this be?


----------



## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

No, I would not freak out!!  I would give it at least until tomorrow if not a few days to see what developes. Just keep an eye on it.


----------



## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Maybe he scraped the inside of his mouth on something. I would also wait and keep an eye on it.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Man, this is bizarre, LOL. It's the upper and bottom lip only on one side. I SWEAR it was black earlier today. I notice these things. You know how that bottom hangy part sorta shows when their mouth is closed, sometimes? Well I can see the pink even with his mouth closed! 

The only think I can think of is that I gave him a sample of Honest Kitchen Embark today. Maybe some ingredient caused a weird pigment reaction.

Or maybe he just randomly lost pigment on one side!


----------



## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Yes, I know exactly which part you are talking about. Riley has undergone so many pigment changes in his life! He literally looks like a dalmation with spots all over his body, and his lip pigment has gotten lighter in spots (sometimes overnight). I truely would not loose any sleep over it at this point!


----------



## lavillerose (Feb 16, 2011)

My parents' (black!) Spoo's bottom lip changed color constantly over the first few years we had him. It would go from black to pink and black again, and looked so weird when it was pink! Eventually it settled on black though. Never showed any sign of inflammation or discomfort though.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Tony's lips got spotty and his tongue got black spots. But, I guess it's weird that it literally happened within hours. I think there has to be some underlying cause. And, to prove (to myself and others LOL) that I am not crazy, I just so happened to find a photo of him with black lips!

I uploaded 2 photos of his lips prior to changing, 2 photos of his randomly pink lip and then 1 photo of the other lip, that is still black.

I think it's swollen. Maybe it was that damn frontline I gave him...I knew I shouldn't have put that poison on him!


----------



## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Hmmm. Does it seem inflammed at all, oozy, crusty or painful? I would still give it a few days, and if it doesnt clear up then I would take him in.


----------



## littlestitches (Dec 28, 2009)

That is strange.

It does look puffier in the last pictures, but maybe because the colour contrasts so much with the rest of his face.

Does he seem to be in discomfort?

Paula


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

littlestitches said:


> That is strange.
> 
> It does look puffier in the last pictures, but maybe because the colour contrasts so much with the rest of his face.
> 
> ...


Not at all (discomfort). I know what you're saying about the puffiness - it's hard to tell if it is just the color difference that causes that illusion.

He is going to the vet on Mon. He's due for an annual checkup anyway. 

Also...today when I was grooming him, I noticed about an inch sized oval on his leg, near his paw (front leg), with all hair missing. It is a scaley oval of skin. I am glad he is going to the vet.


----------



## rubymom (Apr 24, 2010)

Hope everything turns out ok! I know you will be watching him closely between now and vet visit on Monday! My first thought would be a possible mouth injury or he chewed on something toxic to the gum tissue? 
When you mentioned the Frontline, as it is neurotoxic to some dogs, there may be a possible link. (So many reactions to the stuff!) The photos really seem to show redness and swelling compared to previous photos!

The new food? I guess it is possible that something did not agree with Henry? I just would not think the gums would react like that so fast from a food allergy. But you just never know!


----------



## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

CM:

Did you vaccinate him within the last month? 

Some dogs have a reaction to the vaccine right after it is administered or a few weeks later.

Frontline may also have some adverse reactions depending on the dog's immune system.

Also check if it is swollen that he did not get a bee sting. ANYTHING is possible, including an allergic reaction to some ingredients in the food.

Good decision to take him to the vet and I would do it sooner than Monday, given he not only has changed pigment, but is also swollen on that part of his muzzle and also there is a bald spot (hair missing).. This in combination would worry me and I would not wait. I would definitely take him tomorrow to the ER vet.. adn not take a chance to see what and if something happens as it may be too late which is a risk I personally would not take with my dogs.


----------



## rubymom (Apr 24, 2010)

Good point, Ora! 
Maybe Henry was biten by something on that side of his mouth? Dogs get into all kinds of "stuff" when they're playing!


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

whitepoodles said:


> CM:
> 
> Did you vaccinate him within the last month?
> 
> ...



No, he has not been vaccinated this year.

I am going to have the vet check thyroid.


----------



## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

ChocolateMillie said:


> No, he has not been vaccinated this year.
> 
> *I am going to have the vet check thyroid.*





The only symptom I would be concerned as relating to the thyroid is the fact that he has hair loss but it is so minimal, still a good idea to check thyroid levels.

I have heard that certain vaccines especially Rabies can creat such bald spots as a result of the mod. live virus (that is why I give killed)


----------



## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

> I have heard that certain vaccines especially Rabies can creat such bald spots as a result of the mod. live virus (that is why I give killed)


Riley has had 3 skin reactions to the rabies vaccine. A few weeks after the vaccine he got a quarter sized bald, scaly, blackish spot on his skin. It went away, and you cant tell where the spots ever were. They were from the rabies (the first time we wernt sure, so the next times we gave the vaccines in "wierd" spots so we knew for sure). My experience has been a local reaction though, not in a different spot from the vaccine (thought not impossible).

Just FYI, it is illegal to give/sell a MLV rabies vaccine. That vaccine Only comes killed due to the human health risk (at least in the US).


----------



## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

bigpoodleperson said:


> Riley has had 3 skin reactions to the rabies vaccine. A few weeks after the vaccine he got a quarter sized bald, scaly, blackish spot on his skin. It went away, and you cant tell where the spots ever were. They were from the rabies (the first time we wernt sure, so the next times we gave the vaccines in "wierd" spots so we knew for sure). My experience has been a local reaction though, not in a different spot from the vaccine (thought not impossible).
> 
> *Just FYI, it is illegal to give/sell a MLV rabies vaccine. That vaccine Only comes killed due to the human health risk (at least in the US). *




From what I have heard, some vets in Cda. do have the MLV.

Agreed sorry my mistake.. I just called my vet.. MLV is for other vaccines but for Rabies it is alwys the killed. I stand corrected


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

It is still a little inflamed and it is now crusty on the bottom of his lip. Glad we are going to the vet tomorrow.


----------



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

His lip looks swollen to me, for sure. Perhaps he ate a bee. The scaly skin thing could be any number of things. I'm glad he's going to the vet, too.


----------



## jasperspoo (Feb 25, 2011)

Yes that spot on his mouth does look unusual. Hopefully it was just a bug bite or something. One day, Jasper woke up with what appeared to be a golf ball (well slightly smaller, but not by much!) lodged in his lip. Thankfully, it went away on its own within about 3 hours and has never recurred. Fortunately, my vet is fairly understanding when you call in a panic for an appointment and then cancel it 3 hours later!

Keep us updated on Henry, please. Hugs to you both


----------



## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

CM - what did the vet say about henry? sorry, just saw this thread. will be checking back for your update.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

The vet truly has no idea!

Well, the patch of skin missing on his arm is just scar tissue from dew claw removal - ha! I am a crazy mommy!

The pigment loss is odd, she agrees. He now has a pink spot on the front of his muzzle, just below his nose. This was not here yesterday. She suspects possible bacterial infection, because of the tiny bit of crustyness. Apparently bacteria can get stuck in the fold. I am supposed to wipe his mouth off for the next week or so after he eats, and see if this helps. If this IS what it is, I'd be willing to bet it happened from drinking the nasty pond water at the barn where my mom keeps her horse. But, the fact that he has a pink spot on the outside of his face now makes me wonder...

Other possibility is a possible contact dermatitis. Not sure what from. She said that this would most likely NOT be from exposure to the plastic drinkwell that I had bought (but have returned) because it would take more exposure to develop an allergy or to show an allergic reaction.

Finally, I insisted on the OFA Thyroid panel. She strongly believed that he exhibited no signs of thyroid issues, and she does not see it in young dogs. However, I find it odd that he has gained 7 pounds (he is now 64 pounds!!!!) within the past couple of months. She is a holistic vet and thus has not had a lot of experience with health testing (I don't thikn many people bring breeding animals to her or anything. She specializes in cancer and nutrition). Anyway, she had never heard of this OFA Thyroid panel. Once she saw it, and saw that it would test for Thyroiditis, immune mediated thyroid problems, she thought it was a very good idea to be testing Henry for this, as it is a possibility too.

I forgot to fast him, so I am taking him in tomorrow morning for the bloodwork.

So, in the meantime, I know only as much as I knew before going to the vet. I hate when that happens! :/ I want vets to have answers!!

I am not counting on his pigment to return, which is very sad, because he looks kind of goofy.


----------



## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Glad to see your update! Hope the future brings only good news and that the "mystery" vanishes as quickly as it appeared!


----------



## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

cm, i agree, i wish vets had all the answers the moment we asked the questions, but they don't. i will say, i would rather have a vet say he/she isn't sure what a problem is but is willing to do the necessary work to figure out what is causing the symptons. i worked with vets for many years and have seen the best and the worst of them. some too proud to admit when they are perplexed and some too lazy to go the extra yard for their patients so they double talk the owner and wind up looking like heros. ugh!!!! 

i'm glad your vet falls into neither of these categories and is willing to try to get to the bottom of this for henry. hopefully, in the meantime, he isn't uncomfortably itchy or experiencing discomfort of any sort. it could go away on it's own, just like it showed up. just wondering if a little cortisone cream wouldn't help. sometimes when in doubt, it is a relatively safe topical treatment. i wouldn't try it without consulting with your vet, but it may be a consideration is nothing comes up in his blood panel.


----------



## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

Good for you to insist on a thyroid test.
Better safe than sorry.

Hope you get answers very soon.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I am in total detective mode.

So, Henry's lip did not turn pink on Friday like I thought. I looked back at my photos, and his lip was actually pink on Wednesday, verified by looking at some photos of him that I took that day. NOW, I looked at the NEXT most recent photos before Wednesday, and that same lip is still black. This photo was taken on June 26th. So, this pigment change happened within a period of 10 days. I don't have any photos in that 10 day gap, so it could have happened at any point. It is still getting worse. Each time I look at him, it has spread.

So, this rules out:

Frontline
Drinkwell Fountain
Honest Kitchen

Humph.


----------



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

That is just so odd, CM. I know older dogs lose pigment in their noses sometimes, but not all of a sudden like that, just gradually over a few years. I assume he did have full pigmentation as a puppy? Some pups without full pigmentation get it and then lose it again. 

If no cause is dicernable, it could be vitiligo. That doesn't effect their general health. Addisons can sometimes cause pigment loss or is associated with pigment loss. A check for Addisons is a good idea only if he has others symptoms (which it sounds like he doesn't, thank goodness). Can you email the breeder and ask if they have had this before?:
Vitiligo in Dogs


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Henry went to a different vet today, the vet that he has seen since he was a puppy. He has pyoderma, a bacterial infection on his lip. The vet gave this a specific name, I forgot what it is, but it literally means "inflammation of the lip". Henry is on Prednisone for a week for the swelling and some antibiotic ointment (EnteDerm) to put in his lip fold and on the pink bump on the front of his muzzle. The bump on the front of his muzzle is what looks to be an infected hair follicle, almost like a pimple, is how the vet described it. He suggested that this could be from shaving too close to the whisker follicle.

He said that bacteria can just collect in the lip fold and somehow turn into an infection. He knew this right away by the redness, inflammation and scabs present in Henry's lip.

I asked if this could have anything to do with me feeding a raw diet, allowing bacteria to collect, and he said absolutely not, he sees this happen in dogs regardless of what they are fed. His suggestion to me was to wash his stainless steel water bowl with soap and water every day.

Anyway, not sure why this happened to Henry and not Millie and Tiger, or what caused the bacterial infection.

I am still glad that we are doing the thyroid thing to be safe, even though this vet seemed to think it had been overkill, because a brief online search of pyoderma shows that this is often caused by underlying conditions, thyroid issues being one of them, but also grooming trauma being another. I can't help but wonder if the whole lip thing happened from being shaved too close to that lip fold, perhaps causing a minor cut, which then got infected.
----
On another note, I brought Millie with me because she was nonstop shaking her head last night. She has a very bad bacterial ear infection. I have been cleaning her ears with Dermachlor-K Flush, which has an antifungal agent, so she has no yeast in her ear, but it did not kill the bacteria in her ear. I suspect that she has actually had this infection for a little while, as I brought her to the holistic vet a few weeks ago and asked about her ears, but the vet simply smelled for yeast and said it smelled fine.

This is where I struggle because the traditional vet seems to have much better medical knowledge. This vet is at the same practice where I recently stopped taking Millie. However, Millie had been seeing one of the younger vets. The vet that Henry saw is actually a family friend, the head vet, and seems open minded regarding raw. I feel like he does a more thorough check of the dogs, but I like the holistic vet's stance on vaccinations and diet.


----------



## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm so happy to hear that it was just an infection CM!


----------



## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

ChocolateMillie said:


> This is where I struggle because the traditional vet seems to have much better medical knowledge. This vet is at the same practice where I recently stopped taking Millie. However, Millie had been seeing one of the younger vets. The vet that Henry saw is actually a family friend, the head vet, and seems open minded regarding raw. I feel like he does a more thorough check of the dogs, but I like the holistic vet's stance on vaccinations and diet.


Two dogs down with infection - bummer for them. I am glad its nothing serious and hope Henry and Millie are feeling better soon.

Its good getting this feedback on the comparisons to the 2 Vets you see....Be nice if you could combine the two for the ideal Vet!


----------



## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

Olie said:


> Two dogs down with infection - bummer for them. I am glad its nothing serious and hope Henry and Millie are feeling better soon.
> 
> Its good getting this feedback on the comparisons to the 2 Vets you see....Be nice if you could combine the two for the ideal Vet!


My thoughts exactly ! That would be the perfect vet combo 

So happy that you got a diagnosis, wishing speedy recovery to your two.


----------



## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

first, i'm glad it is only an infection that henry has and it is something that will be easily treated and, hopefully, leave no scar.

next, your whole point about not finding all you want in one vet - i hear you. it is very frustrating. the "traditional" vet goes by many tried and true methods. the holistic vet, maybe not so tried and true, but more natural. which way do we go? i don't think there is a simple answer. personally, i think keeping a good relationship with both is the way to go. there will be some things that you would want to turn to your traditional vet for, especially the family friend; where he can't support you, i.e., innoculations, raw feeding, you have the holistic vet. you are lucky you have that choice. i don't have a holistic vet near me. no one says you have to be treated by only one dr and if either dr gets insulted, then well maybe, that is how you make your choice as to where you continue to go.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Jessie's Mom said:


> first, i'm glad it is only an infection that henry has and it is something that will be easily treated and, hopefully, leave no scar.
> 
> next, your whole point about not finding all you want in one vet - i hear you. it is very frustrating. the "traditional" vet goes by many tried and true methods. the holistic vet, maybe not so tried and true, but more natural. which way do we go? i don't think there is a simple answer. personally, i think keeping a good relationship with both is the way to go. there will be some things that you would want to turn to your traditional vet for, especially the family friend; where he can't support you, i.e., innoculations, raw feeding, you have the holistic vet. you are lucky you have that choice. i don't have a holistic vet near me. no one says you have to be treated by only one dr and if either dr gets insulted, then well maybe, that is how you make your choice as to where you continue to go.


Good point! I told him that I had taken Henry to a holistic vet and that she didn't know what was wrong with him. He asked which vet and when I told him he definitely acknowledged that he knew her, didn't show any disapproval that I had taken him to another vet.


----------



## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

ChocolateMillie said:


> Good point! I told him that I had taken Henry to a holistic vet and that she didn't know what was wrong with him. He asked which vet and when I told him he definitely acknowledged that he knew her, didn't show any disapproval that I had taken him to another vet.


That is a good vet !


----------



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Ah, so it was swollen, I thought you had said it wasn't. It looked swollen in the picture. I wash my stainless steel bowls with dishsoap and water after every meal, which I think is a good habit to have, but I don't feed raw. It could easily have been a little clipper burn turned infection. SO glad all was diagnosed. 

I like the traditional vet because of their knowledge. I just do what I want anyway as far a vaccines and such.


----------



## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I am so glad you found out what was wrong. I agree with outwest. If the traditional vet seems more knowledgeable about illness go to him and do what you want with feedings and vaccinations. My vet is strongly against raw, good with vaccination protocol but I understand she is a star at diagnosis and treatment.


----------



## papoodles (Jun 27, 2011)

CM, I am really glad to hear that there's finally a diagnosis, and then hopefully, a quick return to health for your Henry.
I just want you to know that I so admire your dedication to your dogs.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

outwest said:


> Ah, so it was swollen, I thought you had said it wasn't. It looked swollen in the picture. I wash my stainless steel bowls with dishsoap and water after every meal, which I think is a good habit to have, but I don't feed raw. It could easily have been a little clipper burn turned infection. SO glad all was diagnosed.
> 
> I like the traditional vet because of their knowledge. I just do what I want anyway as far a vaccines and such.


Apparently so! Vet #1 said it wasn't swollen but vet #2said it was very swollen and have him a dose of prednisone. I think it maybe have gotten worse over those 2 days.

Vet said raw has nothing to do with it. I already wash my stainless food bowls after each meal, so twice daily.


----------



## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

I was actually a little dissapointed in your post after the holistic vet visit. It does look swollen in the pictures, and looks infected. It looks like classic pyoderma, and for the holistic vet not to recognize that shows to me that she doesnt do/see alot of medical problems. I personally would stick to that family friend doctor you saw for things since he is open minded about the raw diet. Also, for the holistic vet to just smell ears and not do a cytology to find out exactly the cause, I would be questioning that. 

Im glad they are both on meds for their problems and hope they clear up soon!


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

bigpoodleperson said:


> I was actually a little dissapointed in your post after the holistic vet visit. It does look swollen in the pictures, and looks infected. It looks like classic pyoderma, and for the holistic vet not to recognize that shows to me that she doesnt do/see alot of medical problems. I personally would stick to that family friend doctor you saw for things since he is open minded about the raw diet. Also, for the holistic vet to just smell ears and not do a cytology to find out exactly the cause, I would be questioning that.
> 
> Im glad they are both on meds for their problems and hope they clear up soon!


Very true. The only thing is that that entire practice, just like all other vet practices that I have called in my area, except the holistic one, does not believe in 3 year rabies vaccines, titering or even less than annual core vaccines. They will automatically give the 1 year rabies if you forget to remind then that you want the 3 year, and they will sneak Lepto in there with core vaccines,without asking. Finally, they do not like to do intranasal bordatella. As long as I can always remember to constantly hound them NOT to vaccinate my pet, it will be okay. :/


----------



## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Hmmm, I do not like that either. We/I Always tell my clients exactly what we are giving. After we tell them, it is their responsibility to speak up if they dont want something (obviously..). Could you make yourself a memo/list of everything you do/dont want, need checked, want to discuss etc before you take anyone to the vet? I had to do this when Ry went to the specialist or I would forget all the questions I had.


----------



## Tux (Jul 13, 2011)

*Henry and Millie*

So glad both Henry and Millie were diagnosed with ailments that are relatively simple to clear up. What a relief!
Now I have learned something else to watch for, I guess I don't look in any of my dogs mouths often enough. I check their teeth every once in awhile, but not even weekly. They are at the groomers every two weeks, they do their ears, the ears always look pink, clear and smell clean. 

*Wealth of info on this forum, so glad I joined.* 

I do wash the dishes with hot soapy water after breakfast, in the dishwasher at the end of the day. Being a family of one I only use the dishwasher when I do all the parrot dishes at the end of the day. Believe me all the parrot dishes is a dishwasher full. Parrots eat daily fresh foods in addition to seed, pellets and clean water twice a day.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Another thing I just remembered that I found odd when speaking to the holistic vet... I was talking about Tiger, my plans to show him, wanting to health test him in the future...

Anyway, then we were talking and I mentioned the specific health issues in poodles. She had NEVER heard of sebaceous adentitis. I kept repeating it and she was like..."WHAT? Do you mean Seborrhea? I have never heard of Sebaceous Adentitis...." :scared:

These are different things, no? Or am I the crazy one?


----------



## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

you are definitely not the crazy one, so forget that question. i think it just cames down to knowing your pet but moreso, spending the time to know YOUR BREED. self education is quite different from having OCD about something (which i could be guilty of :loco. all kidding aside, we know our pets and we sometimes know more about our breed than a general vet does, unless he/she sees a lot of standards.

anyway, re: vaccinations - i tend to hold back also. years ago i had a cat who liked to go outdoors and roam a bit, but mostly just sit outside. i diligently gave him rabies and all the rest of his vaccinations every year because of this. he ate high quality food - he died at 15 years old of a sudden liver breakdown. "sudden" i think not - more like an undetected chronic liver problem due to vaccinations evey year. now i have a cat who won't even sit on the windowsill, never mind go out. she doesn't eat high quality foods, was vaccinated once when she went for her spay, is now 17 yrs old and doing just fine. to me, this is proof that over vaccination can do more harm than good. 

so to get back to your situation, i agree with the majority - stay with the traditional vet for most of your stuff and just stick to you guns about what you want to do and not want to do.


----------



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Aaah...what vet school did she go to? Does she even have a DVM degree? Can anyone hang a sign that says holistic vet? I would not go back to her. As far as the vaccines and titers, you don't have to pay for anything you didn't ask for. The one year rabies is only given to puppies here. After that they are all the three year one. It seems to me all you have to do is tell them what you want. 

Is his lip and nose getting better?


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

LOL! Yes, she is a DVM. She is actually highly regarded in the St. Louis area. 
Meet The Staff

It is one of the only, if not the only, holistic/integrative practice in STL. I think it just boils down to the fact that most of her clients are probably those seeking alternative cancer treatment, reduced vaccination protocols, and alternative treatments to conditions that other vets were not able to treat with traditional medicine. She even told me that she really has no breeders for clients. 


Oh, and the reason it is so important for me to find a vet that supports my vaccination decisions, is because this other vet, the traditional one, has TWICE now, given my dogs the 1 year vaccination when the dog _could_ have and I _wanted_ it to have the 3 year. I was distracted, as I often am (LOL), and simply forgot to specify. I guess I expected them to ask me rather than just shoot my dog up the minute we walked into the room. Because of this, Henry is getting vaccinated for rabies *again* this year, when medically, he is covered for 2 more years. 

In other words, I cannot explain how frustrating it is when I spend 12 months coming to the decisions that I have made on my pets' vaccinations, etc., and then I walk into the clinic and it is all ruined because I am distracted and overwhelmed by all of the OOHS and AHHs over my poodles.  

Finally, I told the vet that I wanted to follow Dr. Dodd's protocol (of which they had never heard of) and wanted to titer (of which they supremely dissaprove of). 

In other words, it just is NOT that easy to "do what I want" anyway in regards to my pets' vaccinations. The traditional vet, and others in the area, all seem to have their idea of how they want to do things and I will get a bit of grief for doing it another way. It sure is simply to go to a practice that already does it the way I want.


----------



## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_CM, I am so glad for you that a diagnosis was found and is treatable.

I would be worried about the lack of knowledge that the holistic doctor has. I would think that it would strongly affect her ability to properly diagnose and treat an animal.

I think it is unfortunate that you cannot find a vet that is in line with your protocols. Our vet is on board with nearly everything that we want. What she wavers on, we listen to what she has to say, but do what we feel is best. It is a very rare occurrence though. She does not have issues with a raw diet and she also does not have issues with the 'less is better' as far as inoculations go._


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Is his lip and nose getting better?[/QUOTE]

Henry's lip and the small bump on his face are slowly getting better. He is on meds for 3 weeks so I assume it will be a slow healing process. It is not nearly as swollen as before!

Millie and Tiger both have ear infections. Millie's is not healing as quickly as I'd like. It is still pretty red looking and she is still shaking her head and yelps if I forget and touch her ear when petting her. She's been on meds for 5 days. Tigers seem to be healing faster. Poor babies!


----------



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I hope all are healthy soon! My last standard had near chronic ear infections. It was difficult and she got very ear shy as the years wore on. Hopefully your pups just picked it up from each other!

I understand you being annoyed with the traditional vet. I guess I am lucky. Mine tells me what he believes, but doesn't give me a hard time for doing things differently if I want- he always asks before vaccinations.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

outwest said:


> I hope all are healthy soon! My last standard had near chronic ear infections. It was difficult and she got very ear shy as the years wore on. Hopefully your pups just picked it up from each other!


Can they do that? Pick it up from each other? That would explain how they both got a nasty bacterial infection! There is not yeast in either of their ears accd. to the vet. Millie has only had 1 other ear infection in 18 months and this is Tiger's first. Both have very clean, clear ears most of the time. I am blaming it on the humidity or something.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I am pretty sure my solution is just to visit the holistic vet for vaccines and titers and the other vet for problems. Millie is done getting core vaccines. She had her last DHPP this year and based on the holistic vet's plan she does not need a titer for 3 years. The holistic vet even labeled the vaccine "3 year" so she will be covered when she goes to doggie daycare, etc. Then, after that 3 year period the holistic vet likes to do annual titers, though admits they have never come up short and that Millie is 99.9% covered for life. So, basically, I have 3 years to figure all of this out. She does not need rabies for 3 more years either. So Millie is set.

Henry is done getting core vaccines also. He only needs rabies every 3 years.
He is getting rabies shot this year and then won't be due until Millie is due. 

Tiger will need rabies and DHPP next May, and then he will be done with core vaccines forever. 

I also like that the holistic vet gives some sort of eastern medicine treatment after vaccines to prevent local reaction. I don't remember what it's called...

So, it's reallly not a huge deal I guess to just go to the two different vets for different purposes. Pain in the butt a little, but worth it to make sure the dogs aren't overvaccinated.


----------

