# Black 🖤 or Blue 💙?



## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

It can take up to three years before poodles start to clear, so I think you will just have to wait and see. A friend had a mini who was supposed to be blue but he was convinced would stay black forever, the dog is now a very pretty blue.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

She looks black to me. But blues sometimes take a long time to clear. Did the breeder tell you that blue was a possibility? If the sire really is black, then he could not pass a fading gene on to your puppy. (Sometimes blue poodles are registered as black -- they may clear after they are registered.) Is there any blue or silver or cafe or silver beige in the dam's line?

The test results don't tell you anything about whether she will clear to blue.

Cute puppy!


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

peppersb said:


> She looks black to me. But blues sometimes take a long time to clear. Did the breeder tell you that blue was a possibility? If the sire really is black, then he could not pass a fading gene on to your puppy. (Sometimes blue poodles are registered as black -- they may clear after they are registered.) Is there any blue or silver or cafe or silver beige in the dam's line?
> 
> The test results don't tell you anything about whether she will clear to blue.
> 
> Cute puppy!


Breeder has not responded to the blue question. I don't know what colors are in the line. She did claim the sire was inky black.


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## Miki (Dec 25, 2021)

Phoebe looks very inky black to me. 

My Mike was inky black like that, from the beginning. My sister's spoo Charlie started off black, but cleared to blue by age 5. Here's a pic of my Tucker (silver mismark at age 4), Charlie (blue at age 5), and Mike (black at age 7) (green Xs added to make safe for work 😉).


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

Miki said:


> Phoebe looks very inky black to me.
> 
> My Mike was inky black like that, from the beginning. My sister's spoo Charlie started off black, but cleared to blue by age 5. Here's a pic of my Tucker (silver mismark at age 4), Charlie (blue at age 5), and Mike (black at age 7) (green Xs added to make safe for work 😉).
> View attachment 499675


They are gorgeous 🥰


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

A large percentage of black puppies end up being blue by age 5. I have a black miniature poodle whose face is now getting blue, so she will eventually be blue, I think.


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## farleysd (Apr 18, 2011)

The white in the pads is often a sign that they could clear, but not always! My first black girl, Farleys D Lady Winifred aka Winnie, was out of an apricot mother and a black father; she was born with the white hairs between her pads. She lived to be 14 years old, and was over 90% inky black when I lost her.

Here's another small tidbit, black puppies out of a true apricot or red parent and a black parent usually hold onto their deep black color much longer. The older apricot and reds were bred for color sake and only color sake, they normally did not fade, crossing one of those with a black or even blue held the black color better in the offspring.


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

farleysd said:


> The white in the pads is often a sign that they could clear, but not always! My first black girl, Farleys D Lady Winifred aka Winnie, was out of an apricot mother and a black father; she was born with the white hairs between her pads. She lived to be 14 years old, and was over 90% inky black when I lost her.
> 
> Here's another small tidbit, black puppies out of a true apricot or red parent and a black parent usually hold onto their deep black color much longer. The older apricot and reds were bred for color sake and only color sake, they normally did not fade, crossing one of those with a black or even blue held the black color better in the offspring.


Breeder just emailed and said that neither of Phoebe's parents have faded much. She's asked for pics and will give her opinion later. Lady Winnie must have been stunning.


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## Miki (Dec 25, 2021)

farleysd said:


> Here's another small tidbit, black puppies out of a true apricot or red parent and a black parent usually hold onto their deep black color much longer. The older apricot and reds were bred for color sake and only color sake, they normally did not fade, crossing one of those with a black or even blue held the black color better in the offspring.


My Mike's dam was black, and his sire was apricot (Mike's dob was 7/14/97.)


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

Simon is blue. At 20 months, he looks kind of like a black dog who's rolled in dust, if that makes sense. Your average person would call him black, but I can clearly see where he's turning blue. He's also developing phantom points, most noticeable on his legs and under his tail. His sire is a blue phantom out of a brown and white x white breeding, and his dam is a sable out of a silver x black with white markings breeding.


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

TeamHellhound said:


> Simon is blue. At 20 months, he looks kind of like a black dog who's rolled in dust, if that makes sense. Your average person would call him black, but I can clearly see where he's turning blue. He's also developing phantom points, most noticeable on his legs and under his tail. His sire is a blue phantom out of a brown and white x white breeding, and his dam is a sable out of a silver x black with white markings breeding.


Breeder responded with more info. Sire is definitely a non-fading black. Dam faded from apricot to cream, but not white. She says Phoebe could be like her dad and never fade or she could have inherited fading from her mother and fade a little. Which would make her a blue. Which puts the odds at 50/50... 🙄


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Does Phoebe have lighter hair around her eyes? I can’t tell if it’s just the length of her hair.

Those grey circles were the first real sign that Peggy wouldn’t stay black.


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Does Phoebe have lighter hair around her eyes? I can’t tell if it’s just the length of her hair.
> 
> Those grey circles were the first real sign that Peggy wouldn’t stay black.


No lighter hair anywhere. It's always the length. She wiggles when I do her nose/snout, so usually winds up with a slight bald patch right there. In fact, anytime it looks lighter, it's because she wiggled. What blade do you use on Peggy? And she's sooo very pretty!!!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

PhoebeDuck said:


> No lighter hair anywhere. It's always the length. She wiggles when I do her nose/snout, so usually winds up with a slight bald patch right there. In fact, anytime it looks lighter, it's because she wiggled. What blade do you use on Peggy? And she's sooo very pretty!!!


Pretty sure our groomer sticks with a 10 on Peggy’s face and feet.


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Pretty sure our groomer sticks with a 10 on Peggy’s face and feet.


Out of curiosity, when did the circles start showing up?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

PhoebeDuck said:


> Out of curiosity, when did the circles start showing up?


They became apparent after her 6-month groom, but may have shown up faintly a little sooner had we been shaving her face.


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## PowersPup (Aug 28, 2020)

Topper's blue started on the hair behind his ears and on his muzzle. This photo was taken two weeks ago at a scentwork trial. He's in the full sun so you can see that some of his black fur looks brown. The photo also shows the clearing on his snout, chin and ears.


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

PowersPup said:


> Topper's blue started on the hair behind his ears and on his muzzle. This photo was taken two weeks ago at a scentwork trial. He's in the full sun so you can see that some of his black fur looks brown. The photo also shows the clearing on his snout, chin and ears.
> 
> View attachment 499786


I went and looked at Topper's 52 wk thread. Is it just me, or can you see the brown tinting at 4 months/16 wks? And again at 6 months. Or was it just the lighting? He's a very pretty boy!


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

This is Simon at 12 weeks. 

2021-5-18 Simon DSC_0349 by Rosemary Elwell, on Flickr

2021-5-18 Simon DSC_0416 Sunday by Rosemary Elwell, on Flickr

In the second picture, you can see the beginnings of the phantom markings on his front legs.


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

TeamHellhound said:


> This is Simon at 12 weeks.
> 
> 2021-5-18 Simon DSC_0349 by Rosemary Elwell, on Flickr
> 
> ...


He looks like he's ready to get into all kinds of trouble!! Thank you for the pics! I appreciate them!!


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

Looking at this... I'm thinking she's a Blue. I guess I'll find out for certain in a year or two. 

This was taken after I had to trim white paint off her ears this week. 🙄


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

PhoebeDuck said:


> View attachment 499788
> 
> This was taken after I had to trim white paint off her ears this week. 🙄


HaHa! Faux silver🤣!


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

94Magna_Tom said:


> HaHa! Faux silver🤣!


Nooo. Faux parti. 😉


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## Eclipse (Apr 26, 2010)

While blues can take up to 5 years to clear, your dog appears black to me. This is one of my blue girls...


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

Eclipse said:


> While blues can take up to 5 years to clear, your dog appears black to me. This is one of my blue girls...
> View attachment 500065


She's beautiful. I would've pegged her as turning silver, but I'm new to poodles. 🙃


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## Eclipse (Apr 26, 2010)

PhoebeDuck said:


> She's beautiful. I would've pegged her as turning silver, but I'm new to poodles. 🙃


Thank you. Blues can have a range of shades, some are quite dark, others lighter. In contrast, here is my youngest girl at about 18 months. She is definitely a black LOL....


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

@Eclipse love the hair!!! 🥰😉 Her TK looks very fluffy!!! 😁


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## Eclipse (Apr 26, 2010)

PhoebeDuck said:


> @Eclipse love the hair!!! 🥰😉 Her TK looks very fluffy!!! 😁


Yes, fluffy LOL... She's cut down now because I only show in breed until they are ready to start their performance careers - we show in agility, obedience, rally, rat hunting, etc. This pic is from an agility trial last weekend. She's 21 months old this Friday...


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Eclipse said:


> Yes, fluffy LOL... She's cut down now because I only show in breed until they are ready to start their performance careers - we show in agility, obedience, rally, rat hunting, etc. This pic is from an agility trial last weekend. She's 21 months old this Friday...
> View attachment 500067


Almost the same birthday as Elroy! Elroy will be 21 months old this Sunday! I'm thinking he's going to be blue in the end. He has a grayish cast to his coat now, IMO.


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

Eclipse said:


> Yes, fluffy LOL... She's cut down now because I only show in breed until they are ready to start their performance careers - we show in agility, obedience, rally, rat hunting, etc. This pic is from an agility trial last weekend. She's 21 months old this Friday...


She's impressive! My husband complained about my trimming Phoebe's ears short. He would love for her to have the fluffy ones like in the pic! (White paint was involved in the trim) we've only just gotten our first trick title.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

PhoebeDuck said:


> She's beautiful. I would've pegged her as turning silver, but I'm new to poodles. 🙃


Here's a silver adult (Sam's sire) and a silver puppy (Sam's baby) for comparison.


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## Eclipse (Apr 26, 2010)

PhoebeDuck said:


> She's impressive! My husband complained about my trimming Phoebe's ears short. He would love for her to have the fluffy ones like in the pic! (White paint was involved in the trim) we've only just gotten our first trick title.



My pup's got 14 titles to date, most of them in agility, but also ratting titles, and others such as several trick titles, her ATT temperament test title, etc. We hope to finish our Rally Novice title in December...

And never fear, the ears will grow LOL. All of my dogs have had long ears because I really love them so work on growing them
, but my now 15 year old always had spectacular ones, she was an ear hair growing machine! She was 12 1/2 in this pic...


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Eclipse said:


> My pup's got 14 titles to date, most of them in agility, but also ratting titles, and others such as several trick titles, her ATT temperament test title, etc. We hope to finish our Rally Novice title in December...
> 
> And never fear, the ears will grow LOL. All of my dogs have had long ears because I really love them so work on growing them
> , but my now 15 year old always had spectacular ones, she was an ear hair growing machine! She was 12 1/2 in this pic...
> ...


Wow! The ears!


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## Eclipse (Apr 26, 2010)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Almost the same birthday as Elroy! Elroy will be 21 months old this Sunday! I'm thinking he's going to be blue in the end. He has a grayish cast to his coat now, IMO.
> View attachment 500069


Yes, almost exactly the same age! Where did you get Elroy from?


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Eclipse said:


> Yes, almost exactly the same age! Where did you get Elroy from?


Wool 'N Wind Standard Poodles, CT. And you?


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## Eclipse (Apr 26, 2010)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Wool 'N Wind Standard Poodles, CT. And you?


 Azel Standard Poodles in Indiana. My fantastic breeder in SC of my 2 older girls retired a couple years ago from showing and breeding. So when I was looking for a puppy a couple years ago she referred me to Krista at Azel - when Krista started breeding and showing she got her foundation bitches from my former breeder. So my pup is actually related to my middle girl (pup's great-grandmother is my middle girl's mother). Since I never seem to find a breeder I like close to me for all the things I want in my puppies (I'm in NY) I've flown to get all my girls and bring them home with me in the cabin LOL. Here is a pic of my youngest at 8 1/2 weeks in her flight bag







when we were in the airport in IN waiting to board


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

Even though Wilson' face was light (he did have some white spotting on his face) you can see the reddish brown tinge indicative of the color blue. His brother is silver. Wilson has blue spot's on his back that looked black for several years. He was still clearing when he was 6 years old. Nike's color change was much quicker.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Charmed said:


> View attachment 500078
> 
> Even though Wilson' face was light (he did have some white spotting on his face) you can see the reddish brown tinge indicative of the color blue. His brother is silver. Wilson has blue spot's on his back that looked black for several years. He was still clearing when he was 6 years old. Nike's color change was much quicker.


Such a cute picture 😍!


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

Just an update in case it matters... I gave Phoebe her first big clip in months. She has a bunch of white guard hairs on her back. I was able to count seven before she wiggled away, and I know she has more on her face. I know guard hairs are normal, but it's my understanding that a true "good" black would not have so many, so fast.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

No expert, but a brownish cast in pictures seems to predict blue. I think your pup is black. Await results l😊


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