# Coi



## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

4-6% is not bad. Really great would be a bit lower, but there are lots of poodles that have COIs that are a whole lot higher. I took a quick look at Percy's pedigree, and I am guessing that the COI will be lower than 4-6%. The dam appears to be very unrelated to the sire, at least based on a very quick look at the first 3 to 5 generations.

A COI of 6.25 would be the equivalent of breeding first cousins, with no other inbreeding. Dr. John Armstrong found that standard poodles with COIs of less than 6.25 lived for an average of 4 years longer than standard poodles with COIs of over 25! As we have gotten farther away from the Wycliffe bottleneck, it has become easier to find standard poodles with lower COIs, and generally spoo COIs are lower than they were when Armstrong was doing his research. 

While COI is something worth looking at, it is only one of many factors that a breeder considers when choosing which dogs to breed. There are sometimes good reasons for choosing a sire that is related to the dam, even though it will result in a higher COI. 

Here's a good thread on the topic:
http://www.poodleforum.com/14-poodle-breeding/3617-explaining-coi.html


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

One thing to be aware of is that for some reason, poodle pedigree COIs tend to be lower than those calculated in PHR. I tend to think that the ones in PHR are more accurate. 

COI is a useful tool, but has been somewhat supplanted by the UC Davis genetic diversity test. As a breeder I find it fascinating and useful that littermates (with the same COI, of course) can have very different VGL results. 

The other thing to be aware of in standard poodles is when the big bottlenecks occurred. With mainstream Wycliffe dogs, much of the crazy linebreeding/inbreeding occurred in the 60s and 70s, and to some degree into the 80s. A 10-12 generation COI calculation might not take that into account, and dogs that look unrelated on paper looking at a pedigree can in fact be quite related because they go back to the same Wycliffe dogs, or in the case of reds, the same red foundation dogs, or in the case of partis, Chubby Checkers, etc. Again, a VGL test will tell you how homogeneous your dog really is (a major consequence of inbreeding). It will also show you how related or unrelated a potential mate is. Sorry to geek out on you here...I just find it fascinating.


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## pudellvr (Dec 1, 2016)

I do to. I also do human genealogy. It is fun. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Thanks, Verve. I haven't been following the VGL.


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## Maskedpoodle209 (Aug 8, 2017)

So what would a COI of 8.0 or higher be considered


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

*Breeding and COI*

I have noticed that there is quite a bit of concern about breeding dogs with common ancestors. I also see a number of negative comments about Wycliffe bloodlines.

My first standard poodles were the Jaylee standard poodles. Jay and Judy Dazzio bought a brown bitch for a pet. She was very pretty, but her tail had been docked to about 3 inches, so she was not successfully shown. She had some nice breeding behind her. The Dazzios bred her to Wycliffe Hadrian three times. From those three litters came 17 champions, making her the top producing standard bitch (I think that record has since been tied or beaten).

One of those dogs, Jaylee Banacek, was in England from several years. There are English and Scandinavian standards who go back to him. My dog was Jaylee Charley Black. He did quite a bit of winning, often shown by my teenage daughter, but tragically he died very young - only 4 years old.

I have always liked dogs from the Wycliffe bloodlines - they tend to be sturdy dogs with wonderful temperament. Yes, we certainly had problems, although many of the genetic issues were not well documented in the 70s. I know that we had some dogs who did not certify for hips, I had one puppy who had SA - something that no one know much about at that time. Charley had one episode of bloat and he may have had a juvenile kidney.

During the 70s, most people advocated line breeding and inbreeding was done to fix type if the sire and dam were themselves outcrosses. All the original Jaylee dogs were outcrosses, so we did a few brother/sister breedings with no obvious issues. I probably would not do that today, but please keep in mind that inbreeding is used in purebred animals of all kinds to fix type. The breeder must then select and test breed progeny very, very carefully.

And that is the key to inbreeding/linebreeding - careful selection. It takes a great deal of knowledge - something we certainly lacked at that time!


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