# Let's talk transportation, seatbelts, crates, boosters, etc



## Pluto (Jul 8, 2012)

I guess I always knew these existed, but today I saw a collapsible crate that advertised as perfect for keeping in a car. I love the idea of having a small item in the car that pops up into a crate that contains my often very dirty pup. It would also prevent a dog from distracting the driver or getting in the way. At the same time, I can’t image that the pop up crates are any safer then having a dog loose in the car during an accident? Right now we use a seat cover in the backseat and she alternates between hovering over my shoulder and sleeping on the seat. We have also considered a metal screen or net to contain her in the very back of the vehicle (SUV trunk type area) – and was considering the pop-up crate in lue of this. 

Because I use my car for work, I cannot have the seats down and a metal crate in the car at all times, and we go to the park/etc 5-7 times a week. When we go to the park she gets absolutly filthy, hence the canvas cover in the back seat (which does not have seatbelt holes).

So what do you do? Do you let your dog ride loose in the cab, use a seatbelt harness or booster seat with harness? Use a cargo net to contain the dog in the back of the vehicle. A solid crate in the back or in a truck bed?


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## poo lover (Nov 7, 2012)

when we had a car we used a metal grate and that worked really well for our lg dog and for our little dog she had a booster seat cause she got car sick in the back but as long as she could she out the window she was fine.Now Kruz has a bike trailer just for him when we go camping and touring he loves it .


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## WhosMyFluffyPuppy (Jan 12, 2013)

We use a fleece blanket to cover the back seat quickly, and then use a harness (Ruff Rider Roadie) to secure the dog to the seat belt. Considering our "big" car is a Honda Civic, we wouldn't be able to fit a crate large enough to fit a Spoo in the back seat, and just putting the dog in the back seat without any restraint wasn't an option because it's law in New Jersey to restrain your pet in a moving vehicle. But even if we had a bigger car that could accomodate a crate, I still think we'd use the harness-tethered-to-a-seatbelt method because the seatbelt and harness are made to protect the dog (and us) in an accident. I'm not certain how anything we latched a crate to in the car, or the crate itself, would fare in an accident.


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## Pluto (Jul 8, 2012)

poo lover said:


> when we had a car we used a metal grate and that worked really well for our lg dog and for our little dog she had a booster seat cause she got car sick in the back but as long as she could she out the window she was fine.Now Kruz has a bike trailer just for him when we go camping and touring he loves it .


Do I have this right, you camp on a bike? That is awsome! Do you ride from home to local places, or take a bus to more rural locations? Can fit your gear on the bikes?

We do a lot of kayak camping, but it involved a car, and lots of gear


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## murphys (Mar 1, 2012)

We have two options that we use: seat cover with harness-tethered-to-a-seatbelt method and we have a 36 inch crate in the very back of the SUV secured to the hooks in the car with bungi cords. We didn't get the bars or cargo net between the back seat and the storage area because in an accident Fritz would be tossed around in a wider area. 

My question with the pop up crate would be how do your secure it so it doesn't move. Also, I would think you would still need a protector on the back seat as the dog would first jump onto the seat and then go into the crate assumming you have a spoo.


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## Pluto (Jul 8, 2012)

murphys said:


> My question with the pop up crate would be how do your secure it so it doesn't move. Also, I would think you would still need a protector on the back seat as the dog would first jump onto the seat and then go into the crate assumming you have a spoo.


We recently got a new car, so we are investigating the options for that one. In my basic sedan a crate cannot fit (popup or not), hence the seat cover. But our new vehicle is a small SUV. The cargo area is about 2*4, so large enough for a dog, but not a crate. We plan on getting a cover for the cargo area regardless, but have not decided if it will be more of a dog cover, or a rubberized mat. The seats have a 40/60 split and the 60 side would have to be laid down and the crate attached to a floor D-ring. But I don't think that a nylon collapsible crate would hold up well in a real accident and would probably tear loose from the D-ring.

We will keep the sedan for a bit since it has almost no resale value, and it will continue to be the dog car until the new car wears off a bit


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## Oreo's Mommy (Dec 18, 2012)

I want a "dog car"...that is awesome!!!

Fifi had a harness seatbelt and also a booster seat. I felt that the harness seatbelt was more secure so we mostly used that. For Noodle, I just ordered an Argo by Teafco Pet Avion Airline Approved Pet Carrier, Black, Medium that has a seatbelt loop in the back for autos. I also have a small crate for him.


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## organza.evidence (Dec 14, 2011)

I always have poodle in crate in my car-for his/her safe and mine,as we are going for short or long drive.It is very said to hear that something went wrong with dog only because not being in box or crate.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I have a canvas crate that can - with a bit of effort - be collapsed, but which is pretty solid once set up. It is big enough for my two toys, fits onto the back seat while leaving room for one or two passengers, depending which way round I put it, and can be made very secure by looping the handles over the seat headrest. I hunted for ages for one that would clip to seatbelt sockets, but couldn't find one. A fleece blanket or towel underneath it takes care of any muddy paws that might hit the seat. Best of all the dogs love it - Sophy is rarely car sick since I got it, and Poppy settles more easily when she can't spend her time trying to look out of the window. I like the security of knowing they are safely within the cabin of the car, as protected as human passengers would be - too many rear end shunts to feel happy leaving them in the boot, even in a hatchback!

I've used a harness in the past with good results, but it gets a bit time and space consuming with more than one dog.

I'm impressed that New Jersey has legislation requiring dogs to be properly restrained in cars - here people who would not dream of driving without a seatbelt seem oblivious of the risks of having their dog loose in the car. I see any number of dogs sitting in the front seat, or lying on the parcel shelf, in cars doing 80 miles an hour down the motorway...


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

WhosMyFuffyPuppy said:


> We use a fleece blanket to cover the back seat quickly, and then use a harness (Ruff Rider Roadie) to secure the dog to the seat belt. Considering our "big" car is a Honda Civic, we wouldn't be able to fit a crate large enough to fit a Spoo in the back seat, and just putting the dog in the back seat without any restraint wasn't an option because it's law in New Jersey to restrain your pet in a moving vehicle. But even if we had a bigger car that could accomodate a crate, I still think we'd use the harness-tethered-to-a-seatbelt method because the seatbelt and harness are made to protect the dog (and us) in an accident. I'm not certain how anything we latched a crate to in the car, or the crate itself, would fare in an accident.


that sounds like the harness that they put on Teddy for the trip "home" - I never saw one before - I must get one for Ginger since I will probably take her with me everywhere now that she hasnt got her buddy Teddy!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

I use a washable rear seat cover that has openings for the seatbelt buckles. I harness Chagall (in a padded EZY DOG harness) with a bamboo brand seatbelt attachment, it also converts to a leash. He is _always _secured like that in anyone's car. Just yesterday his seatbelt safety system got a real workout. I had to stop short to avert a horrific accident involving a motorcycle and an SUV. (We were in Pennsylvania where motorcycle riders 21 years or older are not required to wear a helmet, the scene was grizzly beyond belief. Still freaked by the thought of it.) Anyway, Chagall lurched a forward a bit, but he was fine. Thankfully, there was enough distance between the car ahead of and behind us that we safe.:car2:


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## cindyreef (Sep 28, 2012)

I think I will look into this harness too. Its just that Dexter is a big spoo and he loves to lay on the floor of our truck. We have a Nissan Titan full cab (I think its called) 4 full doors. He pretty well owns the back seat. He will lay on the seat for a while but prefers the floor after a bit. We keep the smaller section of the leather seats up so he can lay down on the floor when he wants. But if he is on the seat and we stop or turn suddenly he does get banged around. 
And if you have ever seen an accident happen, sometimes the windows just shatter and the dog jumps out and bolts. Its heartbreaking to lose a dog this way too. 

So Im sure a harness will be better esp for Dex.


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## Mikey'sMom (Feb 21, 2012)

I have been wondering about this too. We are about to get a new car for the dogs (I can't believe I actually just typed that, but it's true!), since we can't fit both a spoo and an oversized mpoo on the backseat of our sedan (except for 5 minute trips, and we are moving to a different state soon). We're probably going to get a Toyota Highlander, Mazda CX-9, or similar, and the plan was to put the dogs in the cargo area, but I'm worried about them getting bounced around. We intend to put up a grate so they can't jump over the seat into the second row, and I don't think crates will quite fit back there...is there such a thing as a harness that would secure them in the cargo area? If we can somehow secure them, it would also be safer when we let them out at rest stops (ie. keep them from both jumping out at once before we can leash them). Any ideas?


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## Mom-n-Reiki (Jan 6, 2013)

We have a Dickies canvas backseat cover in my PT Cruiser that was a Christmas present this last year and I love it! My dirty, wet dogs all pile in and there are no more stains on the actual seat. Back when we had only one dog, I purchased a Kong harness with a seatbelt strap which was ok, but Misha always got herself caught up with it to the point I would have to pull over and fix it, and I really hate harnesses anyway, so that was a brief thing. We have taught all our dogs to lay down in the back so we don't have large bouncing dogs everywhere. Ash, because he is so big, will sit his butt on the seat and stick his head up the middle so he can "ride in the front" and there is just no way we could crate all the dogs in one car when we travel. With the puppy on the way, we are considering keeping the back seat of my husband's Kia Soul down (or taking it out) so everyone has more room. We may do the same in my car, though Ash likes to ride in the trunkspace (don't ask me how he fits because I don't know) when I actually clean it. With so many dogs the car harnesses aren't an option, but they learned fast to be calm and rest in the car.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

While bouncy dogs are an obvious danger, the biggest risk to you and to your dogs is if you have to brake suddenly, or are in an accident. I once had a very small dog shoot forwards when I braked hard to avoid a lorry on the wrong side of the road - and I was doing well under 30 at the time. I know people whose dogs have hit the windscreen - in one case shattering it. I would not drive with children in the car unless they had appropriate car seats and seat belts, and I admit to being risk averse about my dogs as well!


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## Mom-n-Reiki (Jan 6, 2013)

I would use restraints or even a booster seat if needed, if we had a small dog/s, but Misha, our lightest, still weighs in at around 50lbs. However, because of Ash's sheer size and weight, with our inability to even find a restraint system that would fit him, it would put the other dogs in more danger if they were attached to car. We used to tie them in by their leashes for long trips, but again, a mass of tangled dogs to attend to. It really depends on the car, the size and group of dogs, as well as the individual dogs in the car. Reiki is going to be taught to lay with Blue on the floor in my car so he is safer, however we rarely leave the island and, because of the Key Deer, the speed limits are minimal. Even when we have had to break sharply, our dogs don't budge and they brace themselves. I know my dogs are safe when they're in the car, so I don't worry about them. And it could always be worse; at least they're not tied to the rollbar of a jeep or in a truckbed like many dogs here.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

True - I remember on a Pacific island driving behind a pickip truck with children sitting in the back. Truck went over an Irish ford, and two of the smaller children bounced right out onto the road! That was back in the days when health and safety didn't get much airtime.


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## Pluto (Jul 8, 2012)

It seems like many do use a harness system. Do you consider the placement of dog when choosing were to buckle in? The new car has not only front, but also side curtain airbags in the back- which I assume are not tested on dogs. So much like an infant seat, back seat center is probably the way to go.

The particular pop up crate I looked at us very flimsy and really does just pop open like a little tent. it was the really compact size and pop up option that was appealing and it might ultimately be safer if secured in back than a harness in the path of an airbag. I guess another option is to attach the harness to a d-ring in the cargo area?


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

I used to work as a police dispatcher. On several occasions I remember dogs being killed in traffic accidents. The accidents weren't even that bad. But even a 20 pound dog becomes like a missile in a 20mph crash. I remember one time an officer telling me that after a crash, the distraught owner was calling for his dog. The officer found the dog, a miniature schnauzer, in the gutter. It had been riding in the front seat and had been ejected. The dog was dead. The owner who had been seat belted in did not have a scratch.

I keep Misha and the chihuahua's in a dog carrier. I seat belt in the carrier and also put the shoulder strap on the carrier around the back of the seat. When I had big dogs I used the harnesses and kept them strapped very tight, no moving around.


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## lindasdoggrooming (Nov 12, 2012)

Kansas has a secure airline crate in my SUV. I have heard about dogs running up highways and roads after car accidents. Not killed in the crash but hit by cars when in a panic from the crash. All babies should be secure including the fur babies.


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## Pluto (Jul 8, 2012)

OK, so now that I'm at a real conmputer, this the is cargo space we are working with:









And no, this isn't my car, I don't have all the bells and whistles, but I still love it. I know we can fit a Spoo sized crate in the car. It might just fit in the back or we might have to put the larger seat down (photo shows the smaller seat down).

This is what the pop up crate looks like:


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## murphys (Mar 1, 2012)

Ok I have a 36 inch crate and can fit it into the back of a Honda CRV. It doesn't look like it will fit but because of the way the hatch comes down, there is enough room. Mine has docking connections that we use to loop bungie cords through the crate and stabilize it so it doesn't move. I would think as long as you can stabilize it, you should be ok.


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## sarahmurphy (Mar 22, 2012)

we have a 42 inch crate in the back of the honda pilot (2003). It will not just "Fit" in. you must put down both seats and put it in long way first, push it toward the front seats, then rotate it in the cargo area so the long side door faces teh hatch door. then both rear seats can be put back up. Needless to say, this crate comes out of the car as little as possible. Last week, the car went scout camping, and sleeping bags rode in the crate... 

Our other car is a Toyota Echo 2 door (2003). If I build the 36 inch crate in the back seat with the short side door facing the passenger side door, it works. That's not a permanent option, though, and the usual restraint in that car is the seatbelt and harness with a seat hammock. I unclip the center belt and run the loop for the harness to attach to up that center belt and baby lock it, like it's a car seat. Our center belt needs somethign the size and shape of the car key to fit the hole to release that clip. 

My theory is that I never had a disposable child - and I don't have a disposable dog. Everybody buckles up, or we don't go. 

sarah


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Pluto said:


> It seems like many do use a harness system. Do you consider the placement of dog when choosing were to buckle in? The new car has not only front, but also side curtain airbags in the back- which I assume are not tested on dogs. So much like an infant seat, back seat center is probably the way to go.


Yes, we seatbelt Chagall (all 21 lbs of him) into the middle of the back seat because both my car and my dh's have rear airbags. :car:


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I have a booster seat which I have stopped using. If the airbag goes off that would be it for Swizzle. If I use it on a backseat I am afraid the lead part would break his neck. I am kind of mad at the manufactorer as they picture a small dog in the front seat and the danger did not even occur to me till my agility teacher said something to me.t I have a popup crate but I don't use that in the car as I feel the thin nylon might rip in a crash. Currently I use an airport approved crate. I want to try to find a way to secure this to a backseat as it would roll around in an accident. The canvas crate sounds good as well as the individual harness. I have not seen the canvas crates at all or a seatbelt harness in Swizzle's size. This seems like an problem that a good inventor could make a fortune on.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I agree - there are very few crash tested crates and harnesses available (and having seen what happens to the harnessed test dummies in some of the filmed tests I would be very wary of using a harness that had not been passed as safe!). The crate I have is tough polypropylene canvas on a tubular metal frame - I'm sure it could be pierced by sharp metal, but it certainly would not tear if the dogs were simply thrown against the sides, and I reckoned they were less likely to be hurt in it than in metal crate. But I would very much like one that attached to the seat belt points, like a child's car seat, and that had been tested and passed in various crash scenarios. Testing is expensive, I know - perhaps some of the big national animal welfare charities like the RSPCA and the ASPCA should get involved?


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

Not arguing that dogs should ride in the front seat, but all recent vehicles have new-generation front passenger airbags (and perhaps at the other seating positions, too) that sense if there is no one in the seat and therefore do not deploy. Our 2003 Pilot and 2011 Prius even have lights on the dash that indicate if the airbag is off. Both illuminate if and when Beau is riding shotgun; I think the weight limit is around 20 lbs. also, even above that weight, the airbag deployment force is reduced for passengers weighing below a certain limit.


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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

I use our airline approved plastic crate in the car in the back seat with crate buckled in. 


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## LauraRose (Dec 26, 2012)

I've been debating whether to belt Lula in the front, as my airbag would also be deactivated. 
Till I decide, she's been riding in her belted-in crate in the backseat. 



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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

There's definitely a need for better dog auto safety.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...bBhvuEBNROgR1rRg7oPg-Ww&bvm=bv.41248874,d.dmQ


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## cindyreef (Sep 28, 2012)

Well Im going to try the harness in the center of the back seat and see how it goes. There is probably air bags everywhere, Ill have to check. I also like the idea of the buckled in crate and I REALLY like the idea of the nylon crates. My fear of losing my dog in an accident stems from this:

I drive a school bus. One day last summer I was stopped and about to unload 2 children at their home. Two vechicles were approaching. The first car (an SUV) saw the flashing lights and stopped. But I was concerned about the 1/2 ton truck behind her so I held back the children from exiting. (After a while you get a sixth sense for what is about to happen). Sure enough the truck saw the stopped SUV too late. He slammed on his brakes but still ran into the back of the SUV. By the time he hit the SUV he wasnt going very fast but in a split second the rear glass shattered, exploded is more like it. The big terrified dog in the back seat immediatly jumped out the window and headed for the forest. She never did find her dog. Thats why I like the idea of being buckled in somehow. If that dog had of been in a nylon crate he would of been still in the car. Im afraid a hard crate will break open and the dog will still escape. In the heat of the moment they are very scared and wont listen to people.


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## crestiespoo (Dec 19, 2012)

This kind of (but not really... Lol) relates to all this... I just wanted to say that nothing pisses me off more than seeing people DRIVING with a small dog on their lap! What are they thinking? We aren't allowed to hold a cel phone while driving - why do some ppl think its ok to drive and hold a living, moving, breathing dog who would be killed by an airbag or squished between the steering wheel and drivers body... Man that really makes me angry! Ok rant over... 


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## cindyreef (Sep 28, 2012)

butlerchick said:


> This kind of (but not really... Lol) relates to all this... I just wanted to say that nothing pisses me off more than seeing people DRIVING with a small dog on their lap! What are they thinking? We aren't allowed to hold a cel phone while driving - why do some ppl think its ok to drive and hold a living, moving, breathing dog who would be killed by an airbag or squished between the steering wheel and drivers body... Man that really makes me angry! Ok rant over...
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App




LOL :five:


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## pinkteaji (Dec 7, 2012)

As someone already had mentioned I also learned through one of my public health course that anything LOOSe in the car, whether its a basketball, a person, a purse, or even a dog, when the car is in motion, that said "loose" object becomes a projectile object that can kill you or kill itself by crashing or cause serious injury which is why public safety rules recommend that you strap everything down just in case or put it in a closed compartment (the trunk for compact cars).That said, I think this is such an awesome topic to discuss. If anyone could post links to where we can buy some of the stuff mentioned (or pics of it) that would be great. I would love to get some of the things mentioned in this topic  


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## WhosMyFluffyPuppy (Jan 12, 2013)

This is the manufacturer of the car harness we use, though like most everything else I buy, I ordered it off Amazon.

http://www.ruffrider.com/


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## Oreo's Mommy (Dec 18, 2012)

Noodle's carrier came today..it seems really durable. He comes for a visit next Wednesday and I will use it.

Here is the link:
Amazon.com: Argo by Teafco Pet Avion Airline Approved Pet Carrier, Black, Medium: Pet Supplies


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

This is the type of crate I have: STEEL FRAMED FOLDING FABRIC DOG CRATE i | eBay


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## LauraRose (Dec 26, 2012)

Fifi said:


> Noodle's carrier came today..it seems really durable. He comes for a visit next Wednesday and I will use it.
> 
> Here is the link:
> Amazon.com: Argo by Teafco Pet Avion Airline Approved Pet Carrier, Black, Medium: Pet Supplies


A mini can fit in there?

Or am I misunderstanding...?

I've been looking at their larger crates for Lula to fly with us.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

This is from the Automobile Club of America, and while it doesn't speak to the shortfall of dog auto restraint devices being crash tested, it reaffirms some of things we've been talking about.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...ACVpk_uhtW23oQA&bvm=bv.41248874,d.dmQ&cad=rja
Use of a pet restraint system can aid in limiting distractions and help protect your pet.
Restraint systems that limit a pet’s ability to distract the driver, restrict pet movement in the crash, and mitigate crash forces, such as those utilizing seat belts, are best to use.
* A car’s airbags can prove deadly to a pet. Restraining a pet in the back seat is safest for pets.*
Padded harnesses with sturdy connectors and straps are available to connect to a vehicle’s seatbelt or LATCH system. *Both hard- and soft-sided crates can be used in vehicles, but should always be strapped down.* Pet car seats or basket-style holders can be used with smaller dogs.
* A wide variety of barrier systems are available to fit various makes and models of vehicles. *These can be helpful in reducing doggie distractions, *but do not offer protection during a crash.*
_
Also this, no need to raise your hand if you're guilty..._ *More than half (52 percent) have pet their dog while driving, and 17 percent allowed their dog to sit in their lap.*:doh:


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## murphys (Mar 1, 2012)

Chagall's mom, I will say however that it is much easier to bungie cord the crate in the back of the suv securely then it is to unbungie cord the crate to remove it when needed.


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## WhosMyFluffyPuppy (Jan 12, 2013)

fjm said:


> I'm impressed that New Jersey has legislation requiring dogs to be properly restrained in cars - here people who would not dream of driving without a seatbelt seem oblivious of the risks of having their dog loose in the car. I see any number of dogs sitting in the front seat, or lying on the parcel shelf, in cars doing 80 miles an hour down the motorway...


If I recall correctly, the fine for an adult not wearing a seat belt is $75. The fine for havi an unrestrained pet is $250+ !!!

See, us NJ'ers aren't just people with big hair driving Camaros. We're safety conscious people with big hair seat belted in our Camaros LOL. 


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## Oreo's Mommy (Dec 18, 2012)

LauraRose, I am not sure if a full grown mini would fit... It says up to 15 pounds but I am unsure what height a 15 pound mini would be. My Fifi was a mini and weighed 12 pounds...I don't think she could have stood up in it or lay down unless she was curled up. I am thinking it will only work for a few months for Noodle. I also have a big Sherpa one for when he gets older but it is probably too big for under an airplane seat. 

I can take some pics of the bag with a ruler next to it for you if you want.


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

Chagall's mom said:


> There's definitely a need for better dog auto safety.
> 
> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...bBhvuEBNROgR1rRg7oPg-Ww&bvm=bv.41248874,d.dmQ


This is a great thread, as Ive been meaning to do some research/analysis of the whole problem of safe travel for dogs.

Thanks for posting that video. I have been using a seatbelt/harness for Panda but the video doesnt instill confidence in that! I had already figured out that the harnesses with a "leash" that connects the harness to the seatbelt dont seem safe to me. If the dog is riding to the left or right of where the leash connects the the seatbeat, and a front impact occurs, the dog will first move forward, then be slung around by that angle, and that whip to the side seems very bad. And thats on top of whatever slack the leash would have in it. The harness I have has a different design so there is no "leash"; and no slack (other than whatever slack the seatbelt has) but I dont know how strong it would be in an accident.

I think if a dog is in a crate while riding, it would be better to orient the crate sideways, so the dog is facing to one side instead of forward. I say that because Im guessing most accidents have more force coming from the front or back, not the side, and I figure its better for the dog to hit the create wall with his side than with his face or tail.

Now Im thinking about getting a crate, but I drive a Prius. Dont know if I can find a crate big enough for a spoo but small enough to fit in the back seat.


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## sarahmurphy (Mar 22, 2012)

Jacamar said:


> Now Im thinking about getting a crate, but I drive a Prius. Dont know if I can find a crate big enough for a spoo but small enough to fit in the back seat.


we have a 2 door toyota echo. (same car). It holds a 36 inch crate in the back seat. collapse the crate, pull the front seats forward and leaned toward dash. put the crate in the car folded, making sure you will unfold toward the front of the car into the headroom, and push the back side up tot he back of the car. push/pull the sides of the crate into position and return the car seats to normal. If you have a 2 door car, make sure the open side is toward the passenger side. If you have a 4 door, it does not matter. 

You cannot get the crate open into the car - no how, no way... but you CAN build it inside the car... Not for the faint of heart, but do-able. If you are not a limber chick, you might want to ask for help, as there was a bit of yoga involved in the process... :act-up:


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

sarahmurphy said:


> we have a 2 door toyota echo. (same car). It holds a 36 inch crate in the back seat. collapse the crate, pull the front seats forward and leaned toward dash. put the crate in the car folded, making sure you will unfold toward the front of the car into the headroom, and push the back side up tot he back of the car. push/pull the sides of the crate into position and return the car seats to normal. If you have a 2 door car, make sure the open side is toward the passenger side. If you have a 4 door, it does not matter.
> 
> You cannot get the crate open into the car - no how, no way... but you CAN build it inside the car... Not for the faint of heart, but do-able. If you are not a limber chick, you might want to ask for help, as there was a bit of yoga involved in the process... :act-up:


Thanks for the instructions! I would go out and try it now if it wasnt already dark (and I wasnt so darn lazy lol).

No, Im not a limber chick. In fact Im not a chick at all. :monkey:


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## sarahmurphy (Mar 22, 2012)

Jacamar said:


> Thanks for the instructions! I would go out and try it now if it wasnt already dark (and I wasnt so darn lazy lol).
> 
> No, Im not a limber chick. In fact Im not a chick at all. :monkey:


Oh, Duh! I did know that, even... it's pretty cold here, that's going to be my excuse... I'm sure you can manhandle it into place...


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

sarahmurphy said:


> Oh, Duh! I did know that, even... it's pretty cold here, that's going to be my excuse... I'm sure you can manhandle it into place...


Bitterly cold here too. Heh. 
Weather


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Jacamar said:


> This is a great thread, as Ive been meaning to do some research/analysis of the whole problem of safe travel for dogs.
> 
> Thanks for posting that video. I have been using a seatbelt/harness for Panda but the video doesnt instill confidence in that! I had already figured out that the harnesses with a "leash" that connects the harness to the seatbelt dont seem safe to me. If the dog is riding to the left or right of where the leash connects the the seatbeat, and a front impact occurs, the dog will first move forward, then be slung around by that angle, and that whip to the side seems very bad. And thats on top of whatever slack the leash would have in it. The harness I have has a different design so there is no "leash"; and no slack (other than whatever slack the seatbelt has) but I dont know how strong it would be in an accident.
> 
> ...


I confess this is a case of knowing better, but not doing so, on my part. I KNOW the crate is probably the safest restraint for my mpoo in the car. And I even have a car big enough to accommodate one. I have a harness that the seatbelt shoulder belt slips through, though I more often use a second harness that is tethered to the seatbelt buckle with a short leash; definitely _not_ ideal, and the video showing as much gives me nightmares. BUT, and this is a big, bad, BUT, I have yet to change my ways and routinely crate my mpoo in the car. Maybe admitting so is the first step to doing so! I am going to give serious thought to this. I've had dogs riding with me for 40+ years, and so far without incident. I don't want my luck to run out. Hmmm, I do believe I feel a new crate purchase coming on. I'll start researching types tomorrow.:car:


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## sarahmurphy (Mar 22, 2012)

Jacamar said:


> Bitterly cold here too. Heh.
> Weather


careful, there - you are only a 24 hour drive from here... How do you handle unexpected guests, Spike wants to know? (he LOVES the beach...)


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

Chagall's mom said:


> I confess this is a case of knowing better, but not doing so, on my part. I KNOW the crate is probably the safest restraint for my mpoo in the car. And I even have a car big enough to accommodate one. I have a harness that the seatbelt shoulder belt slips through, though I more often use a second harness that is tethered to the seatbelt buckle with a short leash; definitely _not_ ideal, and the video showing as much gives me nightmares. BUT, and this is a big, bad, BUT, I have yet to change my ways and routinely crate my mpoo in the car. Maybe admitting so is the first step to doing so! I am going to give serious thought to this. I've had dogs riding with me for 40+ years, and so far without incident. I don't want my luck to run out. Hmmm, I do believe I feel a new crate purchase coming on. I'll start researching types tomorrow.:car:


Well now that you've confessed on the poodle forum, this is your chance to turn over a new leaf! Switch to the better harness (toss the bad one out) while you shop for a crate. I'd think that the smaller the crate, the better it would be in an accident.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Jacamar said:


> Well now that you've confessed on the poodle forum, this is your chance to turn over a new leaf! Switch to the better harness (toss the bad one out) while you shop for a crate. I'd think that the smaller the crate, the better it would be in an accident.


Yes, I'm on it! I'm going crate shopping this afternoon. I want thank* Pluto *for starting this thread, and motivating me to_ do_ something! The subject has been on my mind, especially recently. The reason being on Monday I witnessed a very bad accident involving a motorcycle and an SUV. I was very concerned about how those involved fared, then read this. 

_ posted: Monday, January 21, 2013 12:00 am | Updated: 4:01 pm, Mon Jan 21, 2013. 
A Doylestown man was injured Sunday afternoon when his motorcycle collided with a Chevrolet Suburban in Solebury.

Police said Matthew Plenskofski, 21, was taken to St. Mary Medical Center by Central Bucks Ambulance and Rescue.

According to police, the motorcycle was northbound on Route 263 when it struck the passenger-side of the Suburban, which was turning left onto Phillips Mill Road from southbound 263. The driver of the SUV was identified as Lori Minardi of Andover, N.J.

Minardi* was transporting four dogs. Police said neither she nor dogs were hurt in the crash.*

The accident is still under investigation, police said._ was transporting four dogs. Police said neither she nor dogs were hurt in the crash.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is more than enough motivation for me to act! I was planning to put Chagall in a crate in the car when we drive down to PCA in April (a 3 hr 45 minute trip), but I know statistically most accidents happen rather close to home. And out here, with so may deer running across the roads, there's an extra peril. (Between my dh and myself we've had 4 deer slam into our cars just the past 3 years alone.) Phase "two" of poodle car safety will be to get Chagall to "agree" with riding in the crate. And to think I got a car with a moon roof just for him! _*sigh*_


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## pgr8dnlvr (Aug 7, 2011)

Ugh, this thread is killing me, I'm another one guilty as charged. I just love the ease of popping the dogs in the car with me at LEAST once daily. I use every excuse under the sun, no matter how "stupid" it is - harnesses take too long to put on and buckle up, crates are too big and bulky, my retriever has proven over and over to have panic attacks in crates, the poodles hair gets matted or wrecked when using a seatbelt harness, the dogs won't "enjoy" the ride if they can't at least "see" out the window, what would be the point in bringing them, I don't like to leave them at home because "I" get lonely, without car rides they'd have so much less stimulation in their life... I could go on...

Will I change my ways? I really don't know... I HOPE to, but I'm really not too sure...

Chagalls mom, which crate did you choose? How is it going with training him to stay in the crate? Do you think he still enjoys car rides or is it just a stress and pain in the butt now?

Rebecca


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

pgr8dnlvr said:


> Ugh, this thread is killing me, I'm another one guilty as charged...
> Will I change my ways? I really don't know... I HOPE to, but I'm really not too sure...
> 
> Chagalls mom, which crate did you choose? How is it going with training him to stay in the crate? Do you think he still enjoys car rides or is it just a stress and pain in the butt now?
> ...


Rebecca, I'm just starting my search today for the right crate for the car. I will report back on what I choose. After the SUV/motorcycle accident I witnessed last Sunday _(so chilling!!)_, and this discussion, I am going to convince Chagall to accept crate riding in the car,_ no matter how much he may at first protest_.:smile:


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## Lily's-Mom (May 31, 2012)

Oh wow, this thread is great, but now I am more confused than EVER!
At this time I just use Lily's walking harness and buckle her into the car in the back seat, but I wanted to get her a better car harness and was looking at this one 
http://www.berganexperience.com/travelharness/index.htm
OR this one: 




I have a small car and no room to fit a crate in there. So what do you all think about this harness? It seems like a good one - padded, sturdy, etc. 
Anyone have experience with this brand or have any other suggestions? Thanks for any input.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I came late to this discussion, but I want to say I am impressed by the NJ law requiring dogs to be restrained in cars. I hope other states will adopt similar measures. When I see people driving around Long Island with their little fluff balls in their laps, I wonder whether they really love them since they are putting them in such extreme danger. I once saw a dog fall out the back window of a car. The dog was ok since they were going very slowly on the road in a park where there is a dog run, but really how can anyone think it is good for their dog to be unrestrained any more than it would be for a child? People don't let their kids hang half out the back window.

Anyway, since Peeves and Lily both have shown signs of being car sick prone we don't put them all the way in the back of our vehicle (a Volvo XC90, ok I know, gas guzzler). We have a hammock cover in our back seat and tethers connected to the child safety seat bars. Each of them wears a harness attached to the tether. This way they can reorganize themselves without falling into the footwells of the seats. Another reason I opted against crates (especially metal) is that if the crate is damaged in the accident could it cause injury to the dog that might not otherwise have happened (like a deep chest or visceral puncture). While the harnesses won't protect them from injury anymore than a seatbelt (and probably less) it seems the best solution for our big dogs. It keeps them from being able to get to us while we are driving and will keep them from being projectiles in the car or escaping if there is an accident. A loose dog can cause a second accident if someone tries to avoid hitting it. Also first responders may not be able to take care of you if a loose dog in your vehicle thinks they are trying to protect you and preventing access.


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## Lily's-Mom (May 31, 2012)

What type of harness do you use? My Lily is a mpoo and I want to secure her with something sturdier than her regular walking harness which I fear in an accident she could be hurt more than if she was wearing a sturdier, padded car harness.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I believe there are a few harnesses that have been crash tested, for example: 
The Official Distributor For Bergan Crash Tested Car Harnesses
Crash Tested Car Crates
PetBuckle - Pet Travel Safety Systems

I'd start by looking at the testing, and work on from there.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Lily's harness is a ComfortFlex sport harness. Although it isn't specifically marketed as a car harness necessarily, what I like about it is that they come in many sizes and it has easy adjustments for fine tuning the fit. Getting things like this that fit standards has been hard. The other thing I like about it is that there is no way anything can slide up out of place close to her neck. the ring for the tether is between and slightly behind her shoulder blades. In addition to using it in the car, I use it with a flexi leash to play ball with her when we are away from home. You can find it on CleanRun and Amazon.


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## Lily's-Mom (May 31, 2012)

That's a different type harness than I ever saw before - thanks for the info.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

What is the best way to secure the crate? I have an airline approved crate for Swizzle but the seat belt will not fit over it. Love your crate FJM. I would have purchased that if I saw it in the US. It looks the safest to me. It it hard to tear canvas and it won't burst open like a plastic crate may.


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## Specman (Jun 14, 2012)

Here is a link to more information:

The Dog Trainer : Safe Car Travel for Dogs, Revisited :: Quick and Dirty Tips 

There is a carrier recommended on this site for those who are really serious but, their prices start at $700!


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## Harrymummy (Aug 27, 2012)

fjm said:


> True - I remember on a Pacific island driving behind a pickip truck with children sitting in the back. Truck went over an Irish ford, and two of the smaller children bounced right out onto the road! That was back in the days when health and safety didn't get much airtime.


Urg. In Singapore it's quite the norm travelling like that for workers/labourers. Terrible when it rains and even worse if there is a car accident. 


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## murphys (Mar 1, 2012)

I treat the crate in the car the same as I treat the crate in my bedroom. He goes in the crate and he gets a small treat. I cut the treats into 4ths so they are small. He knows when he goes in the crate, he gets a treat. He'll turn around and wait for it. We have graduating to no treat sometimes in the car. He always gets one when we got to bed. 

It took about 3 trys for him to understand "up" meant jump into the crate. One thing I've learned is to disconnect the leash when he is in the crate so he can't get tangled in 
it.


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

pgr8dnlvr said:


> Ugh, this thread is killing me, I'm another one guilty as charged. I just love the ease of popping the dogs in the car with me at LEAST once daily. I use every excuse under the sun, no matter how "stupid" it is - harnesses take too long to put on and buckle up, crates are too big and bulky, my retriever has proven over and over to have panic attacks in crates, the poodles hair gets matted or wrecked when using a seatbelt harness, the dogs won't "enjoy" the ride if they can't at least "see" out the window, what would be the point in bringing them, I don't like to leave them at home because "I" get lonely, without car rides they'd have so much less stimulation in their life... I could go on...
> 
> Will I change my ways? I really don't know... I HOPE to, but I'm really not too sure...
> 
> ...



Im like you.. I like to take my poodle everywhere I can. Trips to the bank or the fastfood drive-thru, etc. Its such a pain to harness up Panda instead of just letting him ride "loose". But what keeps me doing it is knowing that if he got hurt because I was didnt buckle him in, I'd never forgive myself. So come on.. Panda says to tell you to buckle those dogs up, or better yet, use a crate. :smile:


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

Lily's-Mom said:


> I have a small car and no room to fit a crate in there.



Remember that you can get a folding crate, and unfold it after you get it in the car. Since you have a mpoo, Im thinking surely you can get a crate that will fit unless you have a *really* small car.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

When Chagall was a 4 lb puppy I used a soft-sided carrier that was strapped into the seatbelt. I converted to always using a seatbelted harness when he got bigger. And in the last 24 hours "improved" upon that habit by affixing his harness directly to the seatbelt shoulder strap, doing away with the longer tether I'd been using that latched into the seatbelt buckle and gave him a bit more freedom. He can still lay down on the seat, and he didn't protest the change when we were riding around yesterday. Friends of mine who own a pet boutique are helping me in my search for "the right" collapsible car crate, two so far look promising. So see, I am improving...baby steps.:biggrin1: 

Now, I have to say I am not totally delighted at the prospect of Chagall no longer being my backseat passenger sitting pretty, but relegated to a crate.:sad: Someone suggested an alternative; to use a hammock-style rear seat cover and harness, with the tether anchored to the baby seat bar. I'm pondering all the options. Dawg, I feel like I'm in a self-help improvement group, and I do believe it's working!


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

sarahmurphy said:


> we have a 2 door toyota echo. (same car). It holds a 36 inch crate in the back seat. collapse the crate, pull the front seats forward and leaned toward dash. put the crate in the car folded, making sure you will unfold toward the front of the car into the headroom, and push the back side up tot he back of the car. push/pull the sides of the crate into position and return the car seats to normal. If you have a 2 door car, make sure the open side is toward the passenger side. If you have a 4 door, it does not matter.



I just put the crate in the back seat of my car and it was a breeze. Only thing is that the back of my front seats are pressed against the wire crate, which will make permanent marks if I dont find something to put between. I need something for underneath the crate as well. One cool thing is that when Im driving long distances and need to make a restroom stop, I can lock the crate and feel more secure about Panda's safety.

The walls of a wire crate would not be cozy for a dog to slam into, but I have some 12 inch by 12 squares of rubber/foam flooring I got at Sports Authority for putting under a treadmill. I may use those on the inside wall of the crate to soften the experience should Panda ever get slammed around.

In case anyone cares for estimating their own situation, the crate is 36 x 24 and my car is a Prius.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Okay, this is Chagall's new "ride" for when he's my passenger. He's already crate trained so I think he'll adjust well enough. (It may take me longer.) I'm getting delivery on Thursday. It'll be handy to have for hotel stays too, no more wire crate!

MidWest Canine Camper Double Door Soft Crate CC1742DD
Details
Keep your favorite pet safe without all the hassle of a big heavy wire crate. With a MidWest Canine Camper Double Door soft dog crate you can keep your dog safe at home, in the car or on the road. Fold up your MidWest Canine Camper Double Door crate into a self contained pouch and you are ready to go.

Water Resistant Material - 600 Denier Polyester with Tan PVC Backing 
* Black PVC Mesh Window Screens
* Reinforced Flat-Top Design - For Placement of Pet Accessories
* Zippered Mesh Door 
* Zipper Lock - Secures Mesh Door; Prevents Accidental Opening 
* Privacy Flaps - To Regulate Visibility & Ventilation 
* Large Storage Pockets - 2 on Either Side & One in Back Large Enough to Hold Folded Tote and Ground Stakes 
* Double- Sided, Ultra Soft Synthetic Sheepskin Zippered Cover - Machine Washable 
* Ground Stakes 
* Non-Skid Feet 
* Bucket Loop - Holds Water Bucket in Place 
* Sized to Accommodate Standard MIDWEST Plastic Pans (Sold Separately)
* Sized to Accommodate Quiet Time Pet Beds (Sold Separately)
* 
The MidWest Canine Camper Double Door soft crate is available in 7 sizes. Each crate comes with the crate, and a carrying case for easy travel.


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## lindasdoggrooming (Nov 12, 2012)

Chagalls Mom,
Just wondering if you are going to secure it in the car?
Wondering how? I have a soft sided crate I use for dog classes, 
but I use the plastic crate for car travel.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

lindasdoggrooming said:


> Chagalls Mom,
> Just wondering if you are going to secure it in the car?
> Wondering how? I have a soft sided crate I use for dog classes,
> but I use the plastic crate for car travel.


A seamstress friend of mine is going to retrofit it with two webbed loops. I'll either thread the seatbelt through them, or use the restraint straps I have from Chagall's harnesses. (They buckle right in.) I realize a soft-sided crate is far from the perfect solution. I ordered a discontinued model, for which I paid very little. It's fine if I just wind up using it when we stay at hotels. Meanwhile, I hope someone's out there inventing and crash testing something "perfect"!


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## lindasdoggrooming (Nov 12, 2012)

Additional straps are a great idea, you are like me waiting for something better to come along.
Glad to read that most owners understand the importance of restraining their furbabies.


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## papoodles (Jun 27, 2011)

*http://www.care2.com/causes/are-doggy-seat-belts-really-safe-for-your-pet.html*

NJ does not have a mandatory pet restraint law on the books. It was proposed last summer, caused a huge outcry-and as far as I know, it is going nowhere.
Governor Chris Christie said “It’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard of in my life” and vowed to veto the bill if it makes it to his desk for signature.

Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/are-doggy-seat-belts-really-safe-for-your-pet.html#ixzz2J8JBJBaO


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## WhosMyFluffyPuppy (Jan 12, 2013)

papoodles said:


> NJ does not have a mandatory pet restraint law on the books. It was proposed last summer, caused a huge outcry-and as far as I know, it is going nowhere.


Wow! With how much I was hearing about it from everywhere I thought it was law! This might explain why I haven't heard any anecdotal stories of people receiving a ticket for this. 


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## lovethemdoggies (Dec 6, 2012)

*Console seat?*

Does anyone know of a safe seat/restraint that would attach to the console between the front seats? Safety is first, but I always missed doggie chats and the occasional kiss at a red light.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Ct girl, bungee cords?


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

I took a few short drives with panda in the crate and I have to say, I dont think thats a very good solution either. My 36x24 crate takes up all the room in the backseat, so having Panda crash into the side of the crate in the event of an accident wouldnt be that much different that having him slam into the back of the front seat. In a really bad accident with a roll or multiple impacts, it would prevent him from being thrown between or over the seats into the front, but bottom line is, Im still looking for a better solution. :sad:

The problem with a harness is that (even if it doesnt break), the point of restraint is the dog's upper body, and so the dog's lower body still whips around. This is a similar problem to the first seatbelts that only had a lap belt. Seltbelts were improved by adding the 2nd restraint across the chest, so maybe some inventor needs to do the same for dogs and create a harness with a 2nd restraint point near the hips.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

That is a very good point. Two point restraints are much safer than single point restraints and more is even better. Think about the seat belts in race cars and the HANS devices used by drivers to protect them. With rare exception, most race car drivers walk away from accidents these days.

I remember talking about this general topic a while ago too. One of the things I remember being mentioned is that dog harnesses for cars have undergone very little safety testing.


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

Wow. Not being a racing fan, I had never heard of HANS, but just read the wikipedia article on it. Very ingenious how it uses the chest, not the seat, to restrain the head.

I wish we would could get its inventor, Dr. Robert Hubbard, to work on dog safety.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Found some interesting info/reviews on various harnesses here. 
Dog Seatbelts


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## Lily's-Mom (May 31, 2012)

Yes, there is a console seat!
Snoozer Black Pet Car Seat Console Lookouts at PETCO
Obviously not for a spoo! 
I never used one, but was going to buy one for my pomeranian, but then she got too sick to travel.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Lily's Mom, this is similar to one I stopped using because I think it is unsafe. Notice one clip by the dog's neck. I think it would be a strangulation risk in an accident. Lily Cd Re that is the only thing I can think of too. I just wish it was more secure.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

The harness I use doesn't clip by the neck, it clips to the tether back between/behind the shoulder blades. I keep it pretty snug. I agree these harnesses could be lots safer for the dogs. Unfortunately I think they weren't designed with dog safety as the primary consideration. I think the primary thinking was how to keep the dogs out of the driver's way.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Catherine I was confusing. When I was responding to Lily's Mom and expressed concern about the restraint it was a bucket type designed for small dogs to sit next to you in the front seat as shown in her link. I think the dog harness seatbelt that you use for your Lily appear to be much safer to me. I have not seen them in extra small. If I did I would definitely try it out for Swizzle.


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## lovethemdoggies (Dec 6, 2012)

The console bucket seat does look perilous as pictured! The skimpy harness with the thin neck strap is one problem, although a vest type harness would help. I looked closely at the photo and there appear to be two buckle straps leading away from between the shoulder blades, one to each side of the bucket. Another issue is how securely the whole bucket is fastened to the console. 
Too bad. We have a two hour trip twice a week and if/when I ever get another dog, I sure would miss the company using a back seat crate. Not to mention the fun some dogs have watching scenery.


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## LauraRose (Dec 26, 2012)

Lula in her Kurgo harness







http://www.kurgostore.com/big-gear-...fit-smart-harness-with-steel-nesting-buckles/


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

CT girl check clean run, I know there are about seven sizes for the ComfortFlex harness. You might find a size that works for Swizzle.

Yes, the bucket seat with the harness that comes with it looks pretty scary. Never attach the restraint to the dog's neck whatever the rest of the set up is like.


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## Lily's-Mom (May 31, 2012)

Lula looks very happy in her Kurgo harness. How does that secure to the car? Is it a nylon loop thru the seatbelt? The Kurgo harness was one brand I was considering. Thanks for posting.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

papoodles said:


> NJ does not have a mandatory pet restraint law on the books. It was proposed last summer, caused a huge outcry-and as far as I know, it is going nowhere.
> Governor Chris Christie said “It’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard of in my life” and vowed to veto the bill if it makes it to his desk for signature.


Right you are! The media coverage confused a lot of people, and provided a short-lived boon to pet stores selling seatbelt harnesses. A local chain pet store still has a sign in the window proclaiming, "New Jersey State Law Requires Pets to Be Safely Restrained in the Car." Nope, they do not! But I'm all for pet safety and cringe when I see folks out here with dogs riding loose in the flatbed of their pick up trucks, or on their laps. It would be great if some headway were made on developing and crash testing really meaningful car safety devices for dogs.



WhosMyFluffyPuppy said:


> Wow! With how much I was hearing about it from everywhere I thought it was law! This might explain why I haven't heard any anecdotal stories of people receiving a ticket for this.


Buckle up Fido? To restrain or not to restrain... - Kurgo Dog Blog
*Current status of legislation regarding dogs traveling in vehicles in New Jersey ** [November 2012]*
Heads of the state's Motor Vehicle Commission and SPCA announced in May 2012 that under an existing statute against animal cruelty (N.J.S.A. 4:22-18), drivers with unrestrained dogs could be pulled over and fined between $250 and $1,000 for each offense. 

Controversy ensued over the interpretation of the law; soon after, rival proposals were introduced in the state assembly—one that would specifically require non-crated cats or dogs to be secured in a seat-belt restraint system (A3221), one that would state that failure to restrain pets in the car is not an offense against animal cruelty law (A3182). Meanwhile, an SPCA spokesman said it is not targeting drivers whose dogs are unrestrained but that the practice is dangerous to both humans and animals.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For now, at least, that appears to be the end of the story.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Lily's-Mom said:


> Lula looks very happy in her Kurgo harness. How does that secure to the car? The Kurgo harness was one brand I was considering.


Me too, it's made my "short list"!


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## LauraRose (Dec 26, 2012)

Lily's-Mom said:


> Lula looks very happy in her Kurgo harness. How does that secure to the car? Is it a nylon loop thru the seatbelt? The Kurgo harness was one brand I was considering. Thanks for posting.


Thanks!
The harness is easily customizable, which I like. Then there's the separate tether, which attaches from the back clip on the harness to a hefty, secure carabiner. You have the option of looping the opposing end of the tether through the seat belt, at the belt securing point, or looping the tether over itself & securing that to the belt chest strap. I choose the latter, & click the belt across the widest point on the car, so that Lula rides nearer to center. Hope that makes sense. 

I'll take & post pix in a separate thread tmrw for those who are interested. 


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