# Calories per Day Help



## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

Me again.... 

Skipper is now 26 weeks and 9.6 pounds, which is just about at his expected weight for a large toy. I have been giving him about 430 calories broken up between Primal freeze dried and PPP toy puppy. Plus a few puppy milk bones. He is also losing teeth, with the back teeth coming out now. I am about to drop him from feeding 3x a day to 2x a day. This week is the last one I plan on giving him lunch. For lunch today all he will get is 1/8 cup of the PPP. He had been getting 1/2 primal nugget & 1/8 c PPP.

For the last 3 days he has left some of his food but eaten it an hour or so later, so I'm thinking that he's started to self regulate. I have searched and searched the internet for calorie requirements and they're all different  He leaves some of his breakfast and dinner and eats his lunch, so I'm thinking those 2 meals might be too much. They are 1 whole primal nugget (about 35--40 cals) and 1/4 cup of PPP (133 cals) for each meal . It's a big bowl of food for a little guy. The goal is to eventually get him off the PPP puppy and feed him only Primal. 

I'm thinking dropping him to 300+ cals a day sounds about right for his age and around the amounts I'm seeing on the internet. He is not overweight and on the slender side. The vet says he's perfect. He will be neutered at the end of June.

What do you think? And I know I'm being a pest about this. With Gilligan, he wouldn't eat anything... I was happy if he ate anything at all, so I never had to deal with cutting back food at a certain age.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I don’t like going by calories or what it says on the box too much. Measure or weigh how much your dog eats in one day and do it for 3 days. Then you know how much to give. If he finishes it all, he needs a little more. If he is leaving some, he needs a little less.

Going from 430 calories to 300 calories seems a little extreme to me. That would mean he is not eating almost 1/3 of what is offered. That’s a lot.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

Don't go by what "the internet says" and go by what you see infront of you. If he's slender, then let him eat. It seems really premature to cut his calories back.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Since he's a toy, he should be easy to weigh. I'd let him eat what he wants and keep tabs on his weight. You'd have to be sure he's done growing to pass judgment on whether he is getting fat. If he maintains and doesn't get fat, continue to free feed. If he's getting fat, then cut it back. See if he'll self regulate his food intake. Many poodles do and it sure makes life (regarding feeding) a lot easier.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

The calorie requirements depend on the kcal's in each food, which varies, not a specific amount based only on his weight. 

Below is only intended to show why you're not finding general guidelines for feeding a 26wk 9.6lb puppy. It depends on the food. 

(Neither example will necessarily be the one you're feeding)

Example here is the PPP toy puppy food. The amount doesn't change as he gets older.









*CALORIE CONTENT*

Metabolizable Energy (ME)

4358 kcal/kg

533 kcal/cup

The portion calculation is assuming this is the only food being given thru the day. This food is expected to be fed in the same amount until he's 1-2 years old. 

The portion accounted for in the calorie count would be reduced by the other foods/treats given. Rather than reducing the portion to a lower calorie count, you divide the prior amount you were feeding into two meals rather than the three or so that was being fed. 

Primal









The Primal suggests 8 nuggets a day for a 10lb adult dog and notes puppies might need twice as much, if this is the only food given daily. This works out to about 2oz daily to feed 6-8 nuggets approx. 

If you want eventually to switch him over fully to the Primal (I can't find the feeding guideline for it), and two meals daily I wouldn't be reducing the overall amount/calorie intake but would increase the Primal and reduce the PPP. 

Short answer
Shorter and possibly clearer...don't reduce the amount/calories being fed just give it in two meals rather than three. If he's leaving food from both meals regularly and not going back for it later, reduce the amount but only then. That will be your opportunity to switch off the PPP. 

This is pretty much what's above from all. Same amounts at first just split into two meals. See how much he eats, of which, and when. Adjust as needed.


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## beowoof (Dec 6, 2021)

i'd also consider waiting a little longer before reducing his calories so much... after neutering his calorie needs will go down again due to metabolic changes so it might be worth waiting and letting him decide how much is "enough" by offering 2 rather than 3 three meals a day. i feed kibble and use the same measuring cup with minor variations of scant (slight dip in the cup), level and heaping (slight bulge over the cup) depending on Kirby's activity, the weather and how his condition is looking. using this method helps me keep his weight in check without making huge variations of what's being served to him.


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## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

Dechi said:


> I don’t like going by calories or what it says on the box too much. Measure or weigh how much your dog eats in one day and do it for 3 days. Then you know how much to give. If he finishes it all, he needs a little more. If he is leaving some, he needs a little less.
> 
> Going from 430 calories to 300 calories seems a little extreme to me. That would mean he is not eating almost 1/3 of what is offered. That’s a lot.


Thank you. He had been leaving some so that's why I cut back.


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## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Since he's a toy, he should be easy to weigh. I'd let him eat what he wants and keep tabs on his weight. You'd have to be sure he's done growing to pass judgment on whether he is getting fat. If he maintains and doesn't get fat, continue to free feed. If he's getting fat, then cut it back. See if he'll self regulate his food intake. Many poodles do and it sure makes life (regarding feeding) a lot easier.


Thank you. I can't free feed because Gilligan will eat it, and he definitely doesn't night a high calorie puppy food


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## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

Rose n Poos said:


> The calorie requirements depend on the kcal's in each food, which varies, not a specific amount based only on his weight.
> 
> Below is only intended to show why you're not finding general guidelines for feeding a 26wk 9.6lb puppy. It depends on the food.
> 
> ...


I had been cutting back the size of his lunch and adding it to breakfast and dinner, and that's when he started leaving some, but if I offered the remainder an hour or so later he would eat. I can't leave it out too long because there is always primal mixed in. He's had a mix of PPP puppy and primal since he was at the breeder. I reduce the primal rather than the PPP because it's a much lower calorie food and I don't want to take up too much space in that little tummy. He does get about 3 - 15 calorie puppy milk bones a day and maybe a few other tiny treats. I use the PPP for training. Yes, I know milk bones are junk food, but they both love them and they're easy to feed.

I'm down to 1/8 of the PPP for lunch and will keep at that for a week and then perhaps cut it out to see if he's hungry. I will also look in much more depth as to what you said. He's not getting fat - I can feel his spine and ribs. He was slender when we got him at 3 months, though he was gaining half a pound a week until the last 3 weeks and his weight is holding.

I can't let him free feed because Gilligan will eat it. We're working on both of them leaving the other's food alone, and it seems to be working. But Gilligan is so jealous he actually started wanting to eat breakfast when in the past he would leave the small amount I gave him until lunch time.

Thank you so much for your very detailed assessment. It is most appreciated.


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## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

beowoof said:


> i'd also consider waiting a little longer before reducing his calories so much... after neutering his calorie needs will go down again due to metabolic changes so it might be worth waiting and letting him decide how much is "enough" by offering 2 rather than 3 three meals a day. i feed kibble and use the same measuring cup with minor variations of scant (slight dip in the cup), level and heaping (slight bulge over the cup) depending on Kirby's activity, the weather and how his condition is looking. using this method helps me keep his weight in check without making huge variations of what's being served to him.


I agree. When I looked at the calculation yesterday I thought it might be too much to reduce at one time, so I'm going to increase breakfast and dinner. The vet wanted me to start cutting out lunch at least a month ago, but I waited to slowly wean him off it, and started last week. For my older dog, I weigh his food every day so I know I'm giving him the 150-160 calories he's supposed to get. He is completely on Primal. I'm not weighing the puppy's food because I figure it's not as important to be exact with a growing puppy, but I will start weighing his food as well.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

I have never paid any attention to the "recommended amounts" on a dog food container. I feed as much as will be eaten unless the dog is too fat (example - our current Labrador retriever). What I do consider is the quality. I have fed Purina for many years because they do so much testing on their products.


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## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

Johanna said:


> I have never paid any attention to the "recommended amounts" on a dog food container. I feed as much as will be eaten unless the dog is too fat (example - our current Labrador retriever). What I do consider is the quality. I have fed Purina for many years because they do so much testing on their products.


Thank you. I don't follow what's on the bags, which is why I do it by calories. My vet tells me the number and that's what I follow for daily intake, no matter the food. I weigh it out every day. I prefer to feed freeze dried raw. My adult is doing very well on it, and the breeder also mixes it in with the PPP puppy food.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

I find calorie intake varies depending on the activity level. Our tpoo is generally very active and eats more than the recommendation. He hasn't a gram too much. He weighs 2.8 kgs. He self regulates and when on the mend after his fractured pelvis, he ate less. Our dogs free feed. Can you put Skipper's food somewhere where he can get at it and Gilligan can't?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

mary2e said:


> Thank you. I can't free feed because Gilligan will eat it, and he definitely doesn't night a high calorie puppy food


Actually this might be worth a try. Since there are more calories in it, Gilligan would probably just eat less. 

Some people don’t even bother with feeding puppy food. They just feed an all stages food. This would be another option. There have been studies on the subject.


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## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

Minie said:


> I find calorie intake varies depending on the activity level. Our tpoo is generally very active and eats more than the recommendation. He hasn't a gram too much. He weighs 2.8 kgs. He self regulates and when on the mend after his fractured pelvis, he ate less. Our dogs free feed. Can you put Skipper's food somewhere where he can get at it and Gilligan can't?


The only way I can put food out is in his ex pen, and then he can't free feed because I would have to shut the door. So far, they are starting leave each other's food alone, but we watch to make sure they don't even try. But I have to give them both food at the same time.


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## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

Dechi said:


> Actually this might be worth a try. Since there are more calories in it, Gilligan would probably just eat less.
> 
> Some people don’t even bother with feeding puppy food. They just feed an all stages food. This would be another option. There have been studies on the subject.


When I could get Gilligan to eat, I gave him all Primal and it's all stages. I may try to do the same when I'm finished with the bag of PPP puppy food.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Free feeding is great for some but it's not the right answer for everyone. 

One reason I stick with meals at predictable times is that helps keep poops at predictable times too. 

Another is that I have one pigdog and one food butterfly. 😉


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