# Stay command



## Purley (May 21, 2010)

Lucy and I are taking a clicker class. I am really enjoying it but there are lots of different things to learn.

The instructor last night said that she is changing the way she teaches "stay". She said that if she tells her dog to "sit" or "down" - she intends that the dog will stay there until she releases it. So she is going to stop telling the dog to "stay" when she walks away.

I thought about this. I have always, always told my dogs to sit and then when I decide to take a step - or walk away - depending on the level the dog has reached - I say "stay" and I often give a hand command as well. But there seems a lot of sense in what she says. If I tell my dog to sit - then I agree - it should sit until I release it. 

But I am so used to saying "stay" it seems funny not to.

Do any others have any comments on the pluses or minuses of not giving a stay command?


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

I disagree. SIT, DOWN, and STAY are totally different commands. It is not reasonable to expect a dog to understand that SIT/DOWN is also STAY. It is not practical either. I don't know a single competition person that does not give both commands separately. 

Also, differentiation between STAY and WAIT:
STAY...... stay as I left you (sitting, standing or lying) in the place that I left you until I back to you. Do not move, whine, sniff, or shift position.
WAIT...... remain where you are until I tell you to do something. This command is used in the recall, retrieve, or for things like not running out the door before me.


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## AgilityIG (Feb 8, 2009)

Hmmmm... a lot of the folks that I train with are of the same mind. Sits and downs are expected to be held until you are released. Period. There is no stay command. Vinnie has no idea what "stay" means. If I put him in a down, he will stay in a down until released. 

It's not that a sit is a "stay" - a sit is a sit until you are released to do otherwise.


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

I think this may partly be an Obedience versus Agility thing, as the other people I know who argue this point are agility folks. In competition obedience, there are many situations where you want the dog to sit but then move fairly quickly to another position (e.g., heeling, fronts), so you don't want them glued to the ground. And when you are doing stays, you want to use everything you are given to remind the dog that he is to stay--verbal command to sit, verbal command to stay, hand signal to stay, prayers to the obedience gods... And like Carol, I use both wait and stay, because they mean two different things.


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## Beach girl (Aug 5, 2010)

What hand command do you use for "wait" that is different for "stay?" I have been working on teaching the difference between "wait" and "stay," and I think both my boys understand it verbally, but I tend to use the palm up, stop sign, hand signal for both. That probably isn't the right way to do it.


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## Purley (May 21, 2010)

Yes, actually I agree with Cbrand now I have thought about it a bit more.

I do agility and obedience. So I am doing heeling. I stop. As I am training Lucy, I say "sit" because she hasn't learned yet that when I stop, she sits. The dog sits. I walk. The dog walks with me. I know I didn't give the command to "stay" but it seems to me that its a bit much to expect the dog to know when you are heeling and the dog sits and then comes with you as you walk away -- or when you want the dog to stay and you walk away and the dog is supposed to stay. How can the dog tell the difference between when you walk away intending the dog to heel (and come with you) or walk away intending the dog to stay (and not come with you)!!!??


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Purley said:


> I do agility and obedience. So I am doing heeling. I stop. As I am training Lucy, I say "sit" because she hasn't learned yet that when I stop, she sits. The dog sits. I walk. The dog walks with me. I know I didn't give the command to "stay" but it seems to me that its a bit much to expect the dog to know when you are heeling and the dog sits and then comes with you as you walk away -- or when you want the dog to stay and you walk away and the dog is supposed to stay. How can the dog tell the difference between when you walk away intending the dog to heel (and come with you) or walk away intending the dog to stay (and not come with you)!!!??


In heeling you do have the right to say "Lucy HEEL!" every time you start forward.

But I think in Obedience when we are working away from our dogs so much that it helps solidify in the dog's mind when they are supposed to STAY and when they are supposed to ready themselves for another direction.


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## ziggylu (Jun 26, 2010)

I have been taught to teach the dog to stay if you walk away with one foot(usually the right) and to heel if you walk away with the other foot(left). I did this with my greyhound as a puppy and he did catch on but it required me to be consistent in this every time he was on leash with me and when doing off leash work. I was taught to overemphasize the step when first teaching the dog to get them to really notice and pay attention to my footwork. 

I didn't keep it reinforced as it wasn't important to me(we never competed) so he know longer recognizes this. For our purposes I use a hand signal to stay and a tap on the leg to follow.


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## Purley (May 21, 2010)

Yes, I try to remember to do that too. But I still think I will use the stay command when I want her to stay.


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

Yup, I use the stay (and wait) commands for Paris too, especially in competition. At home, I'm inclined to use "sit" or "down" as the same thing as a wait, [ie when I want her to wait where she is until I say otherwise] but I still use "Stay" in competition [and training] to reinforce her to hold her position as well as location!! I guess I can see the reasoning behind not worrying about it, I mean I don't want her to break from a sit/down until I say otherwise, regardless of the context I want her to hold her position until told otherwise.... But I'm still gonna keep saying stay when I want her to stay! lol

I always step off in heelwork with my right leg, but that's cos Paris bounces if I start with my left one (for tall dogs like Paris, if I start with my left foot she has to bounce over my left foot to untangle her legs from a sit into an almost instant trot, whereas if I start with my right foot, it leaves my left side more 'open' with more room for her to unfold without the high bounce she is inclined to do...!) but it's not as any signal to her as I use a verbal 'Heel' cue, it's allowed in all levels to do at least that much! I can walk off with my right foot, having told her to stay or wait without a problem too.


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