# playful biting at 7mo



## nataly (Jul 31, 2014)

Hi all,

I need some advice. Chaplin has turned 7 month old today and we are still having a problem with playful biting. 

He is not a total shark any more like he used to be while teething. He is pretty well behaved during the day, but in the evening, when the entire family is home and things are busy, or after the kids go to sleep and we have some dedicated play time he gets super excited very easily and when he does he starts biting.

Usually his bites are accompanied by jumping and playful bows, but they really hurt, he applies some real pressure there. Mostly he bites on the hands, but sometimes, especially mid jump, any body part that sticks out would do and occasionally clothing, shoes and socks.

So far, what we've been doing all the regular things - redirecting him to a toy, which works sometimes, removing him physically from our presence (to a crate or another room, or by us jumping over a baby gate), just stopping all attention, making kind of a dog-whimpering sound and pretending to lick our wounds... Sometimes he notices he went to far, sits and looks us in the eye or licks our hands showing regret, but mostly he just doesn't get it. Sometimes I am able to stop him with a sit command, but not always, or he might sit, then keep at it.

We took him to a 6 week puppy class, then 6 week "Good Dog" class, which was mostly more of the same as the puppy class with less play and more work. He knows sit and down and comes - mostly if you call him with a treat or he wants to. He is also really good on a leash - the best of any dog I have ever had, but this biting has got to stop. Shouldn't they get it by 7 month of age? I have never had this problem for this long with any of my prior puppies...

Oh, forgot to mention - we also had a private lesson at our house a couple months back, and he did get better with overall biting, now it is just this "common let's play" bites. He is also not very careful with his teeth when playing tag with a smaller toy or a ball.

Please help!


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Boy, that's a little tougher with adult teeth! I can understand your concern.

If I were you, I think I would go back a few stages and treat this as if Chaplin was still a younger puppy. Withdraw all attention when he bites. Hopefully you can communicate to him that "playful" biting is a non-starter.

I would also like to suggest that if you haven't already tried the "soft mouth" training I mentioned in the puppy biting thread, it might be an idea. Although it isn't directly related to play biting, I really do think it helps with bite inhibition in that the dog learns to only use his lips and a gentle mouth near human skin. This method is not my invention - it was taught to the puppy class I attended. 

Here is the method: Pick one mealtime every day when you have enough time to do this (alternatively, you could do it for 1/4 or 1/2 of each of his meals). Hold his food dish, with his portion of kibble, in your hand and do not let him get access to it. Have him sit, Tell him "Yes" and hold out a piece or two of kibble which you have tucked between your knuckles with the fingers folded in. Allow him to nibble the kibble out from between your fingers. You can simply keep feeding him like this until the food is gone (or you decide to give him the bowl to finish the rest - which you do only after he has sat at your command and then say Yes and put the bowl down and say OK so he can break the sit and eat.

I did this with Dulcie for her lunch feeding every day until I phased out the third feeding at around 16 weeks. Some days, I gave her her total feeding by hand, other days I fed half or so by hand and then allowed her to finish the bowl herself on the floor. I quickly realized that this was also an excellent opportunity to work on some other behavior lessons. So I would have her Sit -- YEs! Kibble between fingers. Down --- Yes! kibble between fingers. Stand - Yes! and so on. I also used this soft mouth training time to also reinforce leave it. I'd drop a couple of pieces of kibble from the bowl on the floor and tell her to leave it. When she ignored the food on the floor, I gave her food in between my knuckles AND a tasty treat in between my knuckles too (Like a piece of cheese or something). Then I picked up the kibble on the floor. By the time she was 16 weeks old, I was able to leave the food on the floor for the rest of the lesson.

Obviously, my experience is only an anecdotal single data point. However the trainers at the dog club where we learned this technique had used it successfully with dog breeds known to be potentially aggressive. Although that wasn't a huge concern with a poodle, the fact remains that any dog can bite and do harm, so learning to have a soft mouth is valuable for all breeds. This technique seems to really do the trick. 

After Dulcie finished teething (during which I also had hands that looked like I was picking roses without gloves) I have had zero issues with her biting. Even when she was teething, the actual biting and nipping quickly faded out and most of my scratches were caused by accidental scrapings as she enthusiastically reached for a toy in my hand. 

Good luck with this! I can understand just how vexing a problem this can be!


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## nataly (Jul 31, 2014)

Thank you nifty. I have been training "leave it" in a similar way to what you describe, although I held the kibble by fingers, not knuckles. I haven't spent all that much time doing it though, since he got it quickly (he's a poodle after all!) and then I would just reinforce with a few treats at a time, nowhere close to feeding an entire bowl of food. I will try to feed an entire meal or half a bowl at once like this.
Lately, he is not all that excited by his kibble, he kind of transitioned us into free feeding by ignoring his bowl and coming to graze whenever the mood strikes. He likes to be hand fed though, so hopefully he will like that - we will see. If that doesn't work, we can also keep the previous meal light, so he is hungry. Lately he looks like he could benefit from a light mean anyway. I have a feeling everybody slips him a few extra treats and edible chewies during the day and with a large family like ours it adds up and begins to show


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

just wondering is some of that slipping a few treats comes at the same time he is jumping, play bowing and nipping? maybe he is also getting some inadvertently positive responses to nipping?


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## Erica (Feb 28, 2015)

Delta is the same age and we're working on the same thing, haha! I've seen a bit of improvement recently, so I'd say the main thing is patience and consistency. I don't do time-outs because I personally find them inconvenient, but they are a valuable and valid tactic. if you do them make sure they're no more than four or five seconds long or the dog won't really see it as a punishment, just one of those random (to him) changes in circumstance. I do ignore Delta when he bites by crossing my arms and lookig away; when he is settled I pay attention to him again. Something that's been really helpful to him, apparently, is putting a name to the action of biting a toy. I say "toy" right before I present it to him. Now he has started looking for toys on his own when I say "toy." If we are outside and don't have any toys around (im going to braid a felt tug onto our leash, lol) I have to take the boring route and do some obedience repetition to calm him down. He's got a super solid sit, so I can see him running up to leap at me and bite me and I just say "sit!" with my hands difficult to reach (crossed arms usually) and he'll take a last long jump and then plop his bum on the ground. Then I do a few more tricks to settle him down and once he's in control of himself, i release him. We still have work to do but there is light at the end of the tunnel! I highly suggest naming the toys with a cue, so he can understand more what you want. This might be too complicated for some breeds but for a poodle... It helps to let him know exactly what I'm expecting and what he can do to get attention. 

(Please pardon any typos or swapped words; the mobile version of the forum doesn't let me watch as I'm typing :/)


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## Howard (Jan 21, 2014)

My mini poo is two years next month, and it's over the last six months that we've noticed all of his naughty habits die down or disappear. He was a little terror when it came to biting, esp when he was under 6 months. He tore clothes a couple of times because of his puppy needle teeth, and didn't listen to crying out or distractions. But, we stuck at it, and the biting issue disappeared by the time he was about one. He just grew out of it. Albeit, after his adult teeth grew in his biting wasn't _that_ bad that we found it a distressing issue or anything. It was just a bit annoying. 
What really worked for us was the high pitched yelping and then ignoring him for a while after. If the yelping isn't bothering him, then you really need to start ignoring him afterwards. That's what a dog will notice the most-- he was in the mood to play, he went too far, so you and everyone else ignored him and thus playtime was over. 
What we noticed with Howard was after ignoring him he'd come and sit down next to us nicely and then after about fifteen minutes he'd let us stroke or touch him without mouthing. 
Even at two years now, he still sometimes tries to mouth when I come in from work or he's feeling playful. At the end of the day, a dog is a dog. I've just learned to manage his behaviour with the amount of attention I reward him with.


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

Penny was a biter from puppy hood all the way to 8 or 9 months. Come to think of it so was Beau. Anyway, we did the stop playing immediately and ignore for a few seconds, maybe 10 seconds. Sooner or later they both got the idea that biting stopped play. I only stopped on the hard bites, mouthing is ok for me. I figure that's how they play but no biting.

Rick


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