# Back teeth turning a greyish brown color



## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

When I first got Fallen at 7 months I notice that the top back teeth all the way in the back (uppers) were a little yellow, all the others were white. How can a puppy that young not have all white teeth, I've never seen this. Anyway I have been brushing his teeth once every week and they seem like they were doing better. Now on yesterday I was going to brush them and they have changed to this grayish brownish color. Has this happend to anyone else. I've read that you should give your dogs real meaty bones, he never had one. Well I guess we will be going to the vet tomorrow.:ahhhhh:


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

It's time to start feeding edible, raw bones.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

Yuck, that sounds kinda nasty looking. A few years ago, my hound mix's canine tooth turned grayish on the lower half. We couldn't afford to take her to the vet right away, so we just kept an eye on it. A few months later, it went away on it's own. We had the vet check it shortly afterwards and he said that since it looked normal then we didn't need to do anything; said it was probably from some sort of trauma that just needed to heal. That being said, I would for sure recommend that you take Fallen to the vet; just because my experience with gray teeth turned out ok doesn't mean your's will! 

As far as his teeth getting tartar (I'm assuming that's what the yellowish color is) at such a young age, my puppy does too. I just make sure he gets plenty of chewies (RMB, some rawhide, etc.) and it keeps his teeth white.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I'll be interested to know what the vet says. Let us know.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

If they really are grey and not brown/tartar looking, I would almost be concerned that there is something else going on. Sometimes if a tooth is damaged it can die and turn grey.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

ChocolateMillie said:


> It's time to start feeding edible, raw bones.


What type of bones do you suggest I feed him.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Well, if it really is tartar and not some underlying issue that is actually causing the teeth to change color, then edible raw meaty bones will help by scraping and flossing the teeth. 

Beef ribs are good rec. bones in that they are not fully edible (hard - which is good - they will scrape teeth) but they are not so hard, like marrow and soup bones, that they will break teeth. I think this would be best for a kibble fed dog since it isn't a whole lot of raw meat he would be eating with those ribs.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

itzfoxfire58 said:


> *When I first got Fallen at 7 months I notice that the top back teeth all the way in the back (uppers) were a little yellow, all the others were white.* How can a puppy that young not have all white teeth, I've never seen this. Anyway I have been brushing his teeth once every week and they seem like they were doing better. Now on yesterday I was going to brush them and they have changed to this grayish brownish color. Has this happend to anyone else. I've read that you should give your dogs real meaty bones, he never had one. Well I guess we will be going to the vet tomorrow.:ahhhhh:


In my experience, that's a bit odd. Alexander turned 10 yesterday and Pippin turns 9 in November and they only have _mild _tartar (calculus) buildup. They've never required a dental cleaning, and had pearly white teeth for years, especially as youngsters. Mine aren't fed a raw diet but a home cooked diet (meats and veg). I brush their teeth _every _night, followed by the Virbac rinse, and they also get the Virbac dental bones. (I've read somewhere that brushing must be done daily in order to be effective.) 

I think a trip to the vet is a good idea because gray/brown teeth could be indicative of a more serious problem. It's always a good idea to have these things checked out. I truly hope that Fallen is okay and this is just an anomaly. 

I'm a big advocate of dental care in dogs. All three of my rescues (two seniors, one 6 year old retired stud dog) had advanced periodontal disease. Their teeth (canines, molars and pre-molars) were gray, their gums red and swollen, and their mouths smelled like decomp--it was horrible. The roots had abscessed and the teeth were essentially "dead," thus the gray hue. I can only imagine the pain they must have been in, and it was evident they had trouble eating. In all three cases, my vet had to remove most of their teeth. 

Periodontal disease is one of the most preventable diseases in dogs and I highly recommend a daily brushing regimen. (I can't speak to the RMBs as I have no experience with raw feeding.) It's not just the teeth that are an issue, but the fact periodontal disease _can lead to_ cardiovascular and other serious complications.


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## phrannie (Jan 8, 2011)

*I'm interested what the Vet says, also....unless a tooth is dying...like from trama or something, I can't think of why it would turn grey. Please come back after the Vet visit and tell us.

p*


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Excellent post Rowan. I am a big believer in oral care. I think this and proper nutrition are where many owners fall down on the job. I am sure the excellent diet as well as the chewies and brushing has prevented tartar in your dogs. My Aussie's teeth were brushed daily and I put a treatment in his waters as well as giving him numerous chewies and dental products. He still had to get his teeth cleaned by the vet. When he was 13 the vet said it was time to get his teeth cleaned again. I was worried that Zack would not wake up and tried raw meaty bones on the advice of a friend. The change in his teeth was nothing short of a miracle. His teeth became pearly white and the vet agreed that a cleaning by him was no longer needed.

I am concerned for Fallen with that color. Hopefully, it will be something that just needs to heal like moms24 experience. I am keeping my fingers crossed for Fallen.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

Okay, So we went to Vet this afternoon and he took a really good look and said it was build up of tartar, he asked if I was giving him any raw hides or something like that to chew on. I told him since his stomach was messed up and he had the runs I was very concerned about giving him something that would upset his stomach again. The Doctor said they didn't need to be cleaned, but I need to give him something to chew on. I'm glad that was all it was. So now what do you give your dogs to chew on and what type of bones should he eat and can I get them at the grocery store.


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## Rayah-QualitySPs (Aug 31, 2010)

itzfoxfire58 said:


> Okay, So we went to Vet this afternoon and he took a really good look and said it was build up of tartar, he asked if I was giving him any raw hides or something like that to chew on. I told him since his stomach was messed up and he had the runs I was very concerned about giving him something that would upset his stomach again. The Doctor said they didn't need to be cleaned, but I need to give him something to chew on. I'm glad that was all it was. So now what do you give your dogs to chew on and what type of bones should he eat and can I get them at the grocery store.


You can also provide your puppy with appropriate sized kongs to chew. Dogs with digestive upsets can have more problems with teeth due to reguritation. Sort of like people with bulimia have teeth etched by acid. If you brush his teeth do not over do it. You just need to brush softly on a regular basis.

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Okay I really don't see how a kong is going to clean teeth very well. I'd suggest replacing one or two meals a week with a chicken back or chicken quarter (raw). Id also give beef ribs for a harder rec. chew. If this is fine for a few weeks try turkey necks or pork/lamb ribs once or twice weekly as a meal replacement.

Beef ribs don't need to replace a meal.

I'd also start using (if you don't already) an enzymatic toothpaste Luke petrodex or virbac. You may even want to get a scaler. I see them at dog shows all the time.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

Rayah-QualitySPs said:


> You can also provide your puppy with appropriate sized kongs to chew. Dogs with digestive upsets can have more problems with teeth due to reguritation. Sort of like people with bulimia have teeth etched by acid. If you brush his teeth do not over do it. You just need to brush softly on a regular basis.
> 
> Good luck and keep us posted.


He has several chew toys, but I guess there not doing the job, I'll have to figure out something.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

ChocolateMillie said:


> Okay I really don't see how a kong is going to clean teeth very well. I'd suggest replacing one or two meals a week with a chicken back or chicken quarter (raw). Id also give beef ribs for a harder rec. chew. If this is fine for a few weeks try turkey necks or pork/lamb ribs once or twice weekly as a meal replacement.
> 
> Beef ribs don't need to replace a meal.
> 
> I'd also start using (if you don't already) an enzymatic toothpaste Luke petrodex or virbac. You may even want to get a scaler. I see them at dog shows all the time.


Okay I know this may sound stupid, but I always remember being told not to give dogs chicken bones or turkey bones or turkey necks, because they can get caught in their throats is this not true. How do I feed it to him and what about bacteria. Please help, I hate going to the dentist myself and I sure don't want him to have to go through that. Thanks


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

itzfoxfire58 said:


> Okay I know this may sound stupid, but I always remember being told not to give dogs chicken bones or turkey bones or turkey necks, because they can get caught in their throats is this not true. How do I feed it to him and what about bacteria. Please help, I hate going to the dentist myself and I sure don't want him to have to go through that. Thanks


 As long as the bones are raw, you will be fine...just don't ever feed cooked chicken/turkey bones. I don't personally feed any bones cooked though. As far as bacteria, dogs have shorter digestive tracts than say humans, and so the harmful bacteria doesn't really get time to cause problems. Also, dog's stomach acid is usually strong enough to kill anything. (Or so I've read.  )


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## phrannie (Jan 8, 2011)

*I know what you're feeling...the first raw meal Moj ever ate, I sat cringing at every snap of the thigh bone ....but, as said above, raw bones aren't brittle, and dog's guts are made to digest them.

Another plus of feeding raw....there are enzymes in raw meat that keep tarter at bay, making for shiny white, healthy teeth. Moj is 7 years old, and has never needed a dental..no tarter what-so-ever.

p*


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

That is fantastic news - I was concerned that the teeth might be dying because of the gray color. Please do not be frightened of raw. Dogs are built to handle it. I feed Swizzle turkey and chicken necks. You may want to give your dog something larger - Swizzle is a toy. I think a chicken back would be a good start. When my Aussie was 13 the vet recommended a professional cleaning. I did not want him to be put under at that age. Acting on the suggestion of a friend I began feed him raw meaty bones. A couple of months later he went to the vet and the vet said his teeth look great - no professional cleaning needed. It is amazing how fast the raw meaty bones cleaned his teeth. They became pearly white and his breath odor improved. I still brush his teeth (I did Zack too but that did not stop the tartar) and I have a scaler in case he ever needs it. I figure I want him to get use to it while he is young. The scalers are cheap - I think I got mine on Amazon. If you begin to feed raw I would not be surprised if the stomach issues ended. Good luck - I am so glad the problem is not too serious.


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

I brush Nickel's teeth every night. I feed him RMBs (oxtails, beef rib, turkey necks, etc.) 3 or 4 times a week. 

I used to feed RMBs 1 or 2 times a week and there was a little tartar built up in the back. I used a gel that claims to help remove tartar but it didn't help. Then I used this and the tartar started to soften and come out as I continue with the daily brushing routine. Now, after 3.5 weeks of adding this product to his food, his teeth are back to the sparkling white state.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I give my dogs raw beef ribs sometimes. I have also given them raw lamb bones and raw chicken parts. My spoo swallows smaller raw bones whole, so I don't give the chicken much. Just put him outside with it and don't think about it. Since they are raw, you don't want to leave them out for days and days if he doesn't eat them. I have also gotten giant raw cow bones from the butcher. They are cheap and last a long time. After the initial chewing, I will gently boil off any left over meat and let them have them a few more days. 

You can also buy things at PetCo for tartar, but raw bones work the best. Quality rawhides work, too. Get the unflavored, unbleached natural ones, preferable made in the USA. Just make sure he doesn't swallow large chunks. Dogs need something to chew on daily to keep their teeth in good shape. Raw fed dogs always have terrific teeth because they do a lot of chewing compared to kibble fed dogs.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

Ok, Fallen weight 51 pounds and I feed him 4 and half cups a BB a day. So do I by a package of chicken backs and just give it to him or if a buy a whole slab of ribs do i cut them in sections and just give it to him and freeze the rest or am I to remove the meat off the ribs and then give it to him. I'm confused what I'm actually supposed to purchase.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

itzfoxfire58 said:


> Okay, So we went to Vet this afternoon and he took a really good look and said it was build up of tartar, he asked if I was giving him any raw hides or something like that to chew on. I told him since his stomach was messed up and he had the runs I was very concerned about giving him something that would upset his stomach again. The Doctor said they didn't need to be cleaned, but I need to give him something to chew on. I'm glad that was all it was. So now what do you give your dogs to chew on and what type of bones should he eat and can I get them at the grocery store.


That's good news because you have time and resources to put him back on track. 

I use these chews (these are the large for dogs 26 - 50 lbs): 




I use this rinse: Amazon.com: CET Oral Hygiene Rinse 8 oz. bottle w/applicator: Kitchen & Dining

And the tartar control toothpaste: Virbac Animal Health | United States ? C.E.T.® Pet Toothpastes

I also own a hand scaler, but per my vet you must be careful using this or you can actually do more harm than good and damage the enamel. My vet showed me how to use mine and it's actually quite easy. I've seen vets chip tartar off with their fingernails too! You can buy the scaler pretty much anywhere--amazon.com, KV Vet, etc. (Scaler: [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Double-Dental-Tooth-Scaler-Scraper/dp/B005B28MHK/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1316958342&sr=8-6[/ame])

There are many who feed raw here and can offer you advice on that front (Chocolate Millie, etc.). If your pup has a touchy stomach, I'd start with the protein found in his food. Ie., if he's eating a chicken-based food, then try the chicken back or chicken necks first (although the latter might be too small for a standard poodle). Check out the Food subforum for some great threads on raw feeding, including many by "first time" raw feeders who share your reservations.  You'll need a food scale to weigh the meat/bones at first, but should be able to 'eyeball' it later.

RAW FEEDING CALCULATOR: http://www.raw4dogs.com/calculate.htm

If you feed raw bones, I highly recommend one of these--a poodle snood! http://www.poodleit.com/products/snoods/


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

Rowan said:


> That's good news because you have time and resources to put him back on track.
> 
> I use these chews (these are the large for dogs 26 - 50 lbs): Amazon.com: C.E.T. Enzymatic Oral Hygiene Chews for Large Dogs, 30 Chews: Pet Supplies
> 
> ...


Thank Rowan I do brush his teeth with the correct past, but maybe I should try brushing them for more than once a week, this is new for me I never brushed any of my other dogs teeth, but there teeth were always white and all I ever feed them was kibble. I guess I was just lucky.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

ChocolateMillie said:


> Okay I really don't see how a kong is going to clean teeth very well. I'd suggest replacing one or two meals a week with a chicken back or chicken quarter (raw). Id also give beef ribs for a harder rec. chew. If this is fine for a few weeks try turkey necks or pork/lamb ribs once or twice weekly as a meal replacement.
> 
> Beef ribs don't need to replace a meal.
> 
> I'd also start using (if you don't already) an enzymatic toothpaste Luke petrodex or virbac. You may even want to get a scaler. I see them at dog shows all the time.


ChocolateMillie it seems that you are the goto person about raw feeding, how much should I feed Fallen if he is on kibble. I don't want to fully feed him raw to messy for me, but I am willing to give him some raw bones on a daily basis or if you could steer me in the right direction, this is all new to me. Thank you


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## kdias (Sep 17, 2011)

*Feeding raw bones?*

Am I understanding that it is safe to feed a dog raw bones? Even chicken necks and backs? I've always been afraid to give mine bones. I like that idea much better than purchased bones, but I sure don't want to do anything to hurt him. My Ranger is 8 years old and has always had a problem with tartar on his teeth, so we have always had to have his teeth cleaned. He doesn't care anything at all about nylabones or kongs, but I'm sure he would love a good bone.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

itzfoxfire - there really is no set rule for what you can feed your dog and how to do it. Personally, and this is only because it is what would feel comfortable with but it does not mean it is the right or only way to do it, I would just give him a chicken back in place of a meal once or twice weekly - if you feed twice daily. I wouldn't feed him kibble for that meal. OR - if you feed once daily, give a chicken back in the AM and his regular dinner - except a little smaller - in the PM (or vice versa). 

Or, just get some beef ribs and if they aren't super meaty, that doesn't have to replace a meal at all.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

kdias said:


> Am I understanding that it is safe to feed a dog raw bones? Even chicken necks and backs? I've always been afraid to give mine bones. I like that idea much better than purchased bones, but I sure don't want to do anything to hurt him. My Ranger is 8 years old and has always had a problem with tartar on his teeth, so we have always had to have his teeth cleaned. He doesn't care anything at all about nylabones or kongs, but I'm sure he would love a good bone.


Absolutely they can eat raw bones! I'd start with something easy to digest like a chicken back or chicken quarter. Feed it at least 12 hours or so apart from a kibble meal. You can do this a few times a week. If that goes well, you can try turkey necks a few times a week, instead of or alternating with chicken backs, and if that goes well, try pork ribs a few weeks later. I wouldn't feed more than a few RMBs a week, though, as a kibble feeder. I would always separate an "edible" RMB (meaning the bone is soft enough to be fully eaten - the ones I mentioned in this paragraph are edible) from kibble meals by 12 hours at least. JMO.

I would say that beef ribs could be used at any time - they are more of a rec. bone because they aren't fully edible like the other bones I mentioned - and I don't think they usually have as much meat on them, so your dog won't be digesting a ton of bone an meat and shouldn't cause much of an interference with the kibble.


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## kdias (Sep 17, 2011)

That is so good to know! I am new to this site and didn't realize there were more pages of comments to the original question, so my question probably seemed ridiculous. You seem to be very knowledgable about this. I will be trying this and I'll be he will love it.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

Okay, I gave Fallen a neckbone, I couldn't find and chicken backs or turkey necks, I'll probably need to go to another grocery store. Well I washed it off really good and gave it to him outside, he just looked at it, smelled it licked it and came to the door and just sat down. After a few minutes he picked it up chewed it a little and came to the door and just sat. I knew he wanted to come in, but I have carpet and didn't want him to have that thing all on the floor, so I opened the door and he went in his crate, so I picked it up and put it in the crate with him. He layed down for a while about 20 minutes then picked it up and started chewing on it, within about 2 hours it was gone. I guess he was trying to figure out what to do with it, although he will chew his toys to death LOL. I'm going to try to give him a meaty bone at lease 2 to 3 times a week. I thought he might not be as hungry this afternoon since he ate that bone, it was a nice size, but I gave him his normal amount and it was gone in 10 minutes. Well will see how this goes. Thanks for all the information.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

What a great start itzfoxfire58. My guess if the next time Fallon gets a bone it will be gone in short order. I know Swizzle got the hang of it very fast. I find if it is mainly bone it does not fill the dog up at all it is meat that does the trick. I started as you did raw bone for a meal and then kibble for a separate meal. If Swizzle's poo was too hard I would add a heart or gizzard - you would probably need something more substantial - Swizzle is a toy. You should take a picture of his teeth and compare like once a month to see the improvement. Hopefully they will all be pearly white soon.

kdias - no one expects a new member to know previous posts. Your question is perfectly understandable. We are very lucky to have ChocolateMillie on the forum she is so knowledgeable. I know I have learned a lot from her and Swizzle will be better off because of her and others on this forum. Welcome aboard!


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

All I can say is WOW!!!! I just spent a little over an hour brushing Fallen out, I brushed him before we went to the DP, but didn't brush him when we got home, especially since he was in mud and I had to rinse him off, did I mention that I had mud stuck to my tennis toooo LOL. Anyway I wash his ears off with a warm towel and then started combing him out, well after I finished brushing him, he was lying in my lap on the floor, I took a look at his teeth OMG, the tartar is almost all the way gone and I only gave him that bone late this morning, boy if I knew that was all I needed to do it would have saved me $46 dollars, but it was worth it to make sure his teeth were ok. :amen:


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Told ya bones were amazing!

Tiger is home from his handler for one week. His teeth have lots of tartar because he has been eating ground raw with no RMBs for the past 2 months. He got a chicken back tonight and I plan to give him one every 2 or 3 days while he is with me. I also brushed his teeth with some Petrodex enzymatic toothpaste. I am also trying to fatten him up. All this showing means he has lost some weight.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

ChocolateMillie said:


> Told ya bones were amazing!
> 
> Tiger is home from his handler for one week. His teeth have lots of tartar because he has been eating ground raw with no RMBs for the past 2 months. He got a chicken back tonight and I plan to give him one every 2 or 3 days while he is with me. I also brushed his teeth with some Petrodex enzymatic toothpaste. I am also trying to fatten him up. All this showing means he has lost some weight.


Poor Tiger its like when your child goes off to college and you know their not eating right and they come home for the summer and you get to fatten them up a bit LOL. CM thanks for your knowledgeable information. Your the best.:adore::adore:


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Here's a video of Nickel and his oxtail. He doesn't have the oxtail bone down but it's good for his jaws and teeth.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

schnauzerpoodle said:


> Here's a video of Nickel and his oxtail. He doesn't have the oxtail bone down but it's good for his jaws and teeth. Nickel & oxtail - YouTube



SP, is that a whole oxtail not cut, he is really chewing on that thing. LOL I like how you have a sheet/plastic on the floor and your glove on.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

When I woke up this morning I had a surprise, yes half formed half the runs in Fallen's crate, is this normal after eating a meaty bone. His stomach is so sensitive, I was hoping that this wouldn't have happen. Let me know if this happened to you after letting him have a meaty bone.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

It can happen if he's not used to it. How far apart from kibble did you feed ut. What was it exactly - you said neck bone, do you mean chicken neck? If you are concerned about the runs I'd give some pumpkin with his next meal.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

ChocolateMillie said:


> It can happen if he's not used to it. How far apart from kibble did you feed ut. What was it exactly - you said neck bone, do you mean chicken neck? If you are concerned about the runs I'd give some pumpkin with his next meal.


 CM it was a pork neck bone and I feed him at 11:30 am and he ate dinner at 6:00 pm


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

itzfoxfire58 said:


> SP, is that a whole oxtail not cut, he is really chewing on that thing. LOL I like how you have a sheet/plastic on the floor and your glove on.


It's a big cut, not whole. And I don't let him swallow the bone of the oxtail because it's too hard and round. That's why I hold it for him. For other RMB like necks, I hold them for him the first two times and then I let him take on the whole thing on his own.

I put an old towel down so that he can learn to stay on that spot but not taking the bone away and enjoying it on his safety spot, such as the couch or the area rug.

It's normal to have soft stool the first few times. I would give pumpkin and yogurt (non-fat, plain) in between meals - the fiber in the pumpkin helps firming the stool up while the probiotics in the yogurt helps building up the good bacteria in the system. Or you can put his next kibble meal + pumpkin + yogurt in a kong.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Okay that's the problem. Pork is rich. That's why I would have done a chicken back. Did the pork neck have meat on it? He'll adjust, though. Just wait until stools firm up to try it again.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

ChocolateMillie said:


> Okay that's the problem. Pork is rich. That's why I would have done a chicken back. Did the pork neck have meat on it? He'll adjust, though. Just wait until stools firm up to try it again.


CM, the neck bone did have meat on it, was I supposed to remove it ? I did try to find chicken backs and turkey necks, but they didn't have any. I will try to go to Fiesta Market and see if they have it. What about lamb, chicken feet, rabbit, I have seen these at the Fiesta Market. Thanks


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I am no expert like ChocolateMillie but reading up on the Internet it seems most people start with chicken or turkey. Pork is one of the meats you kind of work your way up to. If you have an ethnic market you may have more luck finding chicken backs and turkey necks (although with Thanksgiving coming up I bet you will start seeing lots of turkey necks soon.) or find a good pet store that sells raw meaty bones or find a good butcher. You could also just try feeding a chicken leg quarter - those are usually easy to find. I have found a good pet store and I can buy all sorts of raw meaty bones. I even bought ostrich neck (what a mistake - I have a toy and was not thinking about how thick ostrich necks are). You might want to check out the food section of this forum. There are lots of great threads from people starting to feed raw and some wonderful links. Persevere, it takes take more effort at first to figure things out but think of the white teeth, sweet smelling breath and shiny coat (and hopefully a more settled stomach) that your dog will have. Let us know how you make out.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

No you wouldn't have removed the meat. My point is that pork is a rich meat and many dogs would have gotten diarrhea from that. Chicken bone is the softest and easiest to digest. Similarly, chicken meat is the easiest to digest as well. Raw pork right off the bat is pretty rich and I personally wouldn't give it to a dog as their first RMB. I'd always start with chicken or turkey.

But like I said, if he's doing fine again no worries and I'd give it a try again when you are comfortable.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Speaking of dental issues, Sunny's teeth (he is 3 1/2) are not pure white, and are sort of grey/brown in places (the smaller teeth on top going back). The breeder said she also used Leba spray (it is expensive) which is natural I believe and you spray it twice a day. I checked reviews and they are very very positive. You can get it a little less expensive on Amazon I believe. Any way, I will be working on getting his teeth white, too.

FYI, Jake, who was 13 1/2 when I lost him this May and was a mini poodle, had gorgeous white teeth his whole life -- never had them cleaned, but I did try to brush them, and he was on a raw diet. That made a huge difference I am sure. He was also grain free everything.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I've been reading through this thread as I've just started my spoo on RMBs. To help clean the teeth, I can use turkey neck and chicken backs, correct?

I thought to clean the teeth you needed a 'harder' bone like beer rib? I couldn't decide between beef ribs and an elk knuckle bone today. I ended up getting a beef marrow bone (I know it's hard, won't be getting it again). I also got some turkey necks as Leroy has been eating this no problem. He also looooooves his chicken backs. 

He's been acting weird like he wants to chew every stick he comes across. This behavior has started after I started giving him chicken backs in the past couple of days. Even in the dog park, where he usually is too distracted by the other dogs. He just runs around with a stick in his mouth and whenever he stops he's chomping down on them.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I don't see the need for a variety of sources for bones. They are more to scrape and clean the teeth. For a standard I think chicken quarters and backs and turkey necks would work great. I personally would not feed a beef marrow bone. Since it is load bearing it is harder and a tooth may chip or break. Beef ribs are great too. Use whatever non-load bearing bones you have. I try to encourage chewing (on things I like him to chew) and I also provide antler, bullies and cow trachea. Swizzle finds this very calming and it is great for his gums and teeth. Since Swizzle is a toy I have to be extra vigilant over oral health. Lets us know when you start to see an improvement in Leroy's teeth. The more bone you give the faster the result will be but watch out for fossile poop. If his poop is too hard give him more muscle meat. I keep a bunch of hearts and gizzards on hand (good size for a toy). Love your avitar picture. Is he an apricot?


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

CT Girl said:


> Love your avitar picture. Is he an apricot?


Thank you , he is a cream standard poodle. I have some turkey necks so will be giving him these instead of the marrow bone. I'll get some beef ribs at a later time. It's cute when you first give them a RMB and they're not sure what to do with it and keep looking at you for guidance. He kept licking the chicken back repeatedly until he discovered he could chomp down on it. 

I made the mistake of giving him beef tendon chews when he was a puppy and this stained his teeth terribly. He also had bad breath. Brushing his teeth every night helped keep the bad breath at bay but he still had the brown stains. I stopped giving him the tendon chews and transitioning to raw has helped. I hope within the next few months his bad breath will be taken care of.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Those flavored beef chews are a mess. I am surprised to hear that the stain would be that long lasting though. Bullies and cow trachea don't stain teeth but I must admit unless you buy odorless bullies they do reek (cow trachea does not smell at all). Fortunately it does not affect Swizzle's breath however. That is one of the benefits of feeding raw is that you don't get that horrible doggie breath smell that dogs eating kibble and no RMB get. Swizzle is a hoot when he gets a raw meal or a RMB. He quivers with excitement. It is so nice to see him enjoying his food so much - especially when I have heard how some poodles are very picky eaters.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I got some beef ribs today. Gave one to Leroy outside. He licked it, but as soon as I went inside he kept pawing at the window and the door to be let back in. I went out there and sat down, and then he started chewing on the rib. After a couple of chews, I went back inside. He stayed outside for about 45 minutes chewing. He was happy as can be. He ate almost the whole rib. I washed his legs and wiped his face, fed him his raw patties, then he rang the bell to go back outside. He chewed on the remaining rib some more. I let him back in, and he went wild in the living room. He was so spunky and playful. I like to believe he was so happy he got the rib. He attacked his toys with extreme vigor, violently shaking the toys to "kill" them. He also made lots of play growling sounds that I haven't heard before. Perhaps the RMBs are bringing out the primal side of him? He's been going through a phase where he wants to chew a bunch of sticks, so I got him some lamb trachea, lamb hocks, and a deer antler. Are hocks weight-bearing? They look really good, and both the hocks and trachea do not have any added colors and are not smoked. I was weary of the deer antler but it does not stink like the elk antler I already have. I don't want him running around the house like a wild man so gave him the deer antler to chew on. His little tail is wagging and he is rolling around biting the antler. He's also making the same growling noises. He roars like a lion. I hope that these items satiate his desire to chew chew chew. I am also looking forward to the dental benefits.


(The little pomeranian I'm dogsitting is now walking around with the big deer antler. It is VERY cute. I feel bad for her because she is so interested in the raw food, however her owner feeds her kibble so I will respect that choice. I do sneak her a little bite of the raw patty and she loves it so much!!)

(oops, sorry another update. The pom and Leroy are fighting over the deer antler. She's getting feisty and growling and he's barking. Then he stretched and let out two farts. These two are hilarious!)


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I can just picture it all you describe it so well. Raw meaty bones put Swizzle in a good mood too. Cho. Millie is the expert but lamb hocks worry me a lot less than heavier animals like beef or pig. I believe the hock is like an ankle so it would be load bearing. Swizzle growls occasionally at leaves and strange noises. It cracks me up and surprises me; my Aussie never growled so it comes as a surprise from such a tiny dog.

Swizzle never gets dirty eating raw. He has very good raw technique. I made the mistake of giving him peanut butter though. It got in his ears. I washed, then combed his ear. One ear had a big knot in it and I ended up pulling a bunch of his ear hair off with one swipe of the comb. He is now lopsided. I dread my groomer's reaction next week. His ears looked so good before I wrecked them


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

CT Girl, sorry to hear about the ear hair! Leroy's ears are short because I shaved them with a 10 blade about 6 months ago. I am trying to grow them out, but they are still short and very easy to care for. We'll see how the RMBs go once they get fluffy!

Just wanted to update on the lamb hocks. The ones I bought are not raw, more like dried bones, but still has some meat on it. He LOVED them. He even counter surfed to get the bones once I put them up! And he didn't want to go to bed. He kept going downstairs searching for more. However, sadly I will have to give them up. He swallowed some smaller bones and regurgitated them back up this morning. He did not swallow the larger bones thank goodness. The small bone bits are part if the hock so not very chewable. Luckily I gave him the lamb hock 5 hours after his last meal, and slept in this morning - so the only thing he expelled were the undigested bone. I have bought the lamb trachea before (also not raw) and he eats them in 5 minutes, so those are more like a treat. He has not had problems with those. He is doing fabulously with the chicken backs and turkey necks, and I'll probably stick with the beef ribs for dental cleaning as these are not meal replacements. I'm watching him chew on the rib outside as I type this and he seems to be eating cleaner.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I would not feed bone that was not raw. I would be afaid of it splintering. Beef ribs, chicken backs and turkey necks will be great for his RMB. The trachea I give Swizzle (cow) is not raw either, it is dry like a bully. Before you know it Leroy will have toothpaste ad teeth - it just takes a little time.

It is a bummer about the ears. I really am going to have to look into a snood. I still can't believe I did that. I dread hearing my groomer's reaction - she is very blunt. Fortunately hair will grow back. I am sure she will even him out and it will be fine.


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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

How many times a week should the RMBs be fed to a kibbble fed dog, and how much at a time? I have a small mini (13 pounds) and a cockapoo (15 pounds). I assume the chicken necks or backs and beef ribs would be okay for them? I read the post that said to replace one of their meals with RMBs, unless it's a beef rib. Is that right?

Both of my dogs need dental intervention. The minipoo has nasty breath, even though his teeth aren't discolored too badly. He had a dental last February, but the effects didn't last long, breath-wise. They'll both chew on nylabones occasionally and are fed a good kibble (TOTW). I also feed some fruits and vegetables that they like (baby carrots and pieces of apple).


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

The worse their teeth are the more often I would give them a bone. I would probably start with every other day but if their stool gets too hard you will need to feed them muscle meat. Once their teeth look good perhaps every 3rd or 4th day.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

Quick update on the RMB's. Leroy has been eating them for a couple of weeks now. His breath smells awesome! I stick my nose in his whole mouth when he pants to smell it and it doesn't reek (it used to smell really bad). I do wonder, however, if this is also influenced by me shaving off his nasty mustache. His teeth are on their way to looking white.

For people who are going to feed turkey necks - don't make this mistake I did: so I thought it'd be a great idea to cut the turkey necks into smaller chunks. DON'T do this. I tried to cut one part to a 4 inch length but the bone is really hard! I used scissors and put a small dent in it but was not able to cut it. I was surprised how strong the turkey neck bone was. I gave it to Leroy and he ate the turkey neck like usual, except for the 4 inch part I tried to cut.... he bit off this part and swallowed it whole. I found out later when he woke me up at 3 AM gagging and regurgitated it back up. It was gross but he was excited to see the turkey neck again. I can't believe I made this mistake when I've been reading not to ever feed a portion your dog could swallow. It needs to be larger than their mouth. You'd think he'd understand to chew that part, but nope.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

tokipoke said:


> Quick update on the RMB's... I found out later when he woke me up at 3 AM gagging and regurgitated it back up. It was gross but he was excited to see the turkey neck again.


:rofl:


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

So glad the raw has been working on the bad breath issue. Fortunately Swizzle has not choked on a bone pretty much any bone he can't gulp down so that is a plus. It must be very scary to see. Outwest your reply cracks me up.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

hi there! 
I want to try raw meaty bones, but I think my husband would pack his stuff and leave the house hahahahaha he is a neat freak and the thought of a dead bone on the floor would be ... i don'e even know...

What should I do? I want to make sure Lou & Apollo have good teeth 
But I want to stay married too 

I'm wanting to buy a water additive too, or anything else that can be helpful

I'm ready to purchase the stuff, been browsing amazon for a couple hours now... I'm not sure what to do.

Apollo has an extremely senstive tummy, anything different and he has diarrhea, I used to give them bully sticks but that was ridiculously expensive, like $25 per day! 

Help? Thank you so much






CT Girl said:


> Excellent post Rowan. I am a big believer in oral care. I think this and proper nutrition are where many owners fall down on the job. I am sure the excellent diet as well as the chewies and brushing has prevented tartar in your dogs. My Aussie's teeth were brushed daily and I put a treatment in his waters as well as giving him numerous chewies and dental products. He still had to get his teeth cleaned by the vet. When he was 13 the vet said it was time to get his teeth cleaned again. I was worried that Zack would not wake up and tried raw meaty bones on the advice of a friend. The change in his teeth was nothing short of a miracle. His teeth became pearly white and the vet agreed that a cleaning by him was no longer needed.
> 
> I am concerned for Fallen with that color. Hopefully, it will be something that just needs to heal like moms24 experience. I am keeping my fingers crossed for Fallen.


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