# Show Quality Opinions



## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Your biggest challenge is going to be learning to groom for show. For example, the coat in front of the tail needs to taper down to the base of the tail. Right now it is rounded and that makes the tail set look low. 

Yes, she does lack chin. That can be camouflaged to some degree by leaving the hair on the end of the chin a bit long - and that's not easy to do! Do you have someone who can help you with grooming?


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## rachelcu (6 mo ago)

Johanna said:


> Your biggest challenge is going to be learning to groom for show. For example, the coat in front of the tail needs to taper down to the base of the tail. Right now it is rounded and that makes the tail set look low.
> 
> Yes, she does lack chin. That can be camouflaged to some degree by leaving the hair on the end of the chin a bit long - and that's not easy to do! Do you have someone who can help you with grooming?


She was groomed quickly at the show by the breeder/handler. She does have a taper, but I had the person holding her flatten it so you could see her square outline. If I continue to show her, she'll continue to groom her. I may want to start handling her myself, but not sure about that yet. That's a good point about masking the chin. Do you notice anything else about her apart from the chin? I'm pretty new to understanding what show quality is.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Only other thing I noticed was that she needs to be blow-dried properly. You have to dry a small area at a time keeping the undried hair covered with a slightly damp towel. You have to brush the little area being dried from the skin out. I think there are some videos on U-Tube showing how to do it.


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## rachelcu (6 mo ago)

Johanna said:


> Only other thing I noticed was that she needs to be blow-dried properly. You have to dry a small area at a time keeping the undried hair covered with a slightly damp towel. You have to brush the little area being dried from the skin out. I think there are some videos on U-Tube showing how to do it.


I definitely got inpatient when blowing her dry, not a bad idea to watch a video. Thanks a bunch for your advice/input. She looked more like this around the time of the show:


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## TerraFirma (12 mo ago)

Photos of her against a lighter background stacked up so people can see her front view, side, and back end will help as would a video of her in motion. Six months is a wonky age. I'm no expert, but you're right on the chin, and I agree with @Johanna on tail set appearance.

I mean, without touching her, it's hard to tell but are her shoulders laid back properly? Her eyes could be better, a bit too large and round IMO. Do you have photos of her dam and sire at this ages fully matured? Might help you see the future a bit.

Did you show her in AKC or UKC this weekend? If her breeder is happy to show her for you and mentor you, then I would go with it for the experience. I don't know a serious show breeder who would put a dog out that embarrassed them. It will help you to know if you want to commit to another show prospect in the future. If it were me, I would want to know from the breeder if she thinks that this girl can finish in a reasonable amount of time. I'm not keen on the idea of investing a lot of time and money (and emotion) taking a dog out that can't, but that's just me. I also would hesitate to invest in a dog that has a major fault, no matter what hiding you can do in grooming. 

She is a lovely girl regardless. I commend your goals of showing! My dogs that loved it, LOVED it, and I think it creates a really well-rounded pet, because let's be real, most of their life is spent out of the ring.


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## rachelcu (6 mo ago)

TerraFirma said:


> Photos of her against a lighter background stacked up so people can see her front view, side, and back end will help as would a video of her in motion. Six months is a wonky age. I'm no expert, but you're right on the chin, and I agree with @Johanna on tail set appearance.
> 
> I mean, without touching her, it's hard to tell but are her shoulders laid back properly? Her eyes could be better, a bit too large and round IMO. Do you have photos of her dam and sire at this ages fully matured? Might help you see the future a bit.
> 
> ...


She’s definitely a lovely dog and will make a great pet or companion no matter what. Her temperament is perfect for me so far. She’s my first poodle and I couldn’t have imagined enjoying having a dog this much. I’m not sure about her shoulders, but I’ll add some photos like you mentioned and a video of her movement. I think her movement is her strong suit. She looks beautiful when she runs. Unfortunately, I don’t have pictures of either of her parents. I agreed to purchase her a little impulsively when I met her mainly to test my allergies. I can only find a photo of her grandmother and grandfather.

I appreciate your honest opinion and that’s part of why I made the post, I’m not sure if I should focus on trying to show her. I’ve also booked a pool to start learning dock diving. It was an AKC show and I mainly decided to try it out for a lot of the qualities you mentioned that show dogs have. I also have a relative whose career is with dogs/AKC. She did great in the ring in the second day and and wagged her tail getting out of the car to go into the expo hall. I think the show gave her a lot of confidence.

The breeder/handler said it was her opinion that my dog would be able to finish, just like all the other puppies that were with her at the show. I guess I’m just worried she was being nice, considering she knows my relative. Do you think a handler would say that if they didn’t mean it?


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

If you are on Facebook, you might want to consider joining the New to Showing Poodles group. New to Showing Poodles (AKC / UKC / CKC / KC / FCI ) | Facebook


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## rachelcu (6 mo ago)

TeamHellhound said:


> If you are on Facebook, you might want to consider joining the New to Showing Poodles group. New to Showing Poodles (AKC / UKC / CKC / KC / FCI ) | Facebook


Thank you! I joined


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## TerraFirma (12 mo ago)

rachelcu said:


> The breeder/handler said it was her opinion that my dog would be able to finish, just like all the other puppies that were with her at the show. I guess I’m just worried she was being nice, considering she knows my relative. Do you think a handler would say that if they didn’t mean it?


Others can weigh in, but I would say the opposite is true - most serious, competitive breeder/owner/handlers are more likely to break their dog down into faults, borderline faults, _wish he was that_, _wish she didn't have that_, and sound like brutal dream crushers vs being sensitive and overly positive. At least that's the norm in Terriers (I'm a future Poodle person). But, kennel blindness is real. And then there's preferences. The dogs I would personally pull out aren't always in line with a judge's preference. I would look at the breeder/handlers track record for producing champions. If she's got good results, go show! You might want to talk to her about dock diving if you're trying to grow/maintain coat though...


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## rachelcu (6 mo ago)

TerraFirma said:


> Others can weigh in, but I would say the opposite is true - most serious, competitive breeder/owner/handlers are more likely to break their dog down into faults, borderline faults, _wish he was that_, _wish she didn't have that_, and sound like brutal dream crushers vs being sensitive and overly positive. At least that's the norm in Terriers (I'm a future Poodle person). But, kennel blindness is real. And then there's preferences. The dogs I would personally pull out aren't always in line with a judge's preference. I would look at the breeder/handlers track record for producing champions. If she's got good results, go show! You might want to talk to her about dock diving if you're trying to grow/maintain coat though...


All of what you're saying makes sense. At least now I know it's not the norm to be overly positive. She mentioned my dog has a "refined" face with chiseling around the cheeks. She showed me another dog related to her with a similar face, but lots more chin. She said my dog was moderate in lacking chin, not entirely chinless I guess. She said she moves nicely and has a nice outline. The breeder/handler said I shouldn't do dock diving until she's done showing. So, you make a good point there too. She's a top poodle breeder/handler and has good results, from what I've seen.


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## TerraFirma (12 mo ago)

rachelcu said:


> All of what you're saying makes sense. At least now I know it's not the norm to be overly positive. She mentioned my dog has a "refined" face with chiseling around the cheeks. She showed me another dog related to her with a similar face, but lots more chin. She said my dog was moderate in lacking chin, not entirely chinless I guess. She said she moves nicely and has a nice outline. The breeder/handler said I shouldn't do dock diving until she's done showing. So, you make a good point there too. She's a top poodle breeder/handler and has good results, from what I've seen.


I think you've got an exciting adventure ahead! I love a good moving dog. Has she talked to you about cavaletti exercises? You might get even more reach out of her. Hope you keep everyone posted on her progress.


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## rachelcu (6 mo ago)

TerraFirma said:


> I think you've got an exciting adventure ahead! I love a good moving dog. Has she talked to you about cavaletti exercises? You might get even more reach out of her. Hope you keep everyone posted on her progress.


She hasn't! I wasn't aware that was a thing you could do with your poodle. I'll look into it


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## RylieJames (Feb 3, 2016)

One key things to keep in mind when showing is that there is no "perfect" dog. Every dog has faults. And every dog has its strong points. The handler's job, while in the ring, is to best try to highlight the dog's best attributes while attempting to camouflage the faults. So, any one fault does not make a dog unable to finish.

As for evaluating her, this is not the best photo. You need a contrasting background so we can see her better. Also, the way you have her stacked--pulling her neck forward is not ideal. You want her to hold her head up and back. I posted an example of how you want to stack them below. Also, this is an awkward age for them and not the best time for an evaluation.

I think the most challenging part is learning how to raise a show dog. Coat care is different and you have to train them. They need to learn to stack and hold their head up. They need to learn to trot with their head held high. On show day, you can tell which dogs in the ring have the training and which ones don't. And it makes a difference. One thing I do with my dogs is I practice stacking them randomly throughout the day. And I rub their chin, encouraging them to hold their head high.

As for coat maintenance, that's a whole other subject all together. But it is essential to mastering if you want to have a competitive show dog. First thing, you need to protect the coat you have. That means no collars. No harnesses. Nothing on the coat. If you need a collar for walks, you'll need to buy a coat-protecting collar. There are several vendors that make them. Then, you need to get into a good weekly bath regimen. As soon as the coat is long enough, you'll have to start banding or wrapping the coat to prevent breakage.


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