# SPoodle puppy biting - Help!



## fjm

I am very familiar with puppy late night zoomies, but this sounds more like high stress behaviour/tired out toddler to me. How long are you exercising him for? It is possible that he is getting too much exercise - not a common problem in this day and age, but it does happen! At 12 weeks the usual recommendation would be for two 15 minute walks a day, plus lots of short play and even shorter training sessions. 

The jumping up and biting the bum game was a great favourite of Poppy's when she was a pup - as I never saw her coming, she usually got a really good reaction when I jumped several feet in the air and shrieked. I tried very hard to ignore it, but realised she was beginning to eye up the rear ends of joggers and other people we passed out walking - in the end I turned round and ROARED at her. She was not in the least bit frightened, but did stop doing it!

I would concentrate on very short tuggy games when he is hyper, with frequent requests for letting go - the game stops if he doesn't. Some really good chew toys that only come out in the evening might help, too. Is he crate trained? A chew toy tied to the back of the crate might help him settle. 12 weeks is very young - I am sure with time, and help, he will learn to direct his energy into more suitable channels.


----------



## murieics

Is he crate trained? When he starts chewing on you and everything else in sight and won't stop, instead of closing him up in the living room or another room where he turns into a doggie demolisher, why not put him in his crate until he settles down? You can give him a toy to chew on while he is in there, so he has something to teethe on. Then once he is settled down, take him back out and try again. Rinse, repeat.

You can give him a command, like "settle", if you want to. That way, he is getting a chance to settle down (sometimes, when puppies get wild like that, it seems like they need a chance to get over it by themselves), without learning destructive habits like he is when you just leave him in time-out in a different room from you. 

I don't feel like putting him in his crate should be viewed as a time-out exactly- you aren't trying to punish him, you are just giving him a chance to settle out of that "wild puppy" period he's having each day. The crate can even be in the same room that everyone else is in. If it's just that crazy puppy phase, he should eventually grow out of it- I know what you are talking about- and all of our dogs and our friends' dogs went through it (and eventually grew out of it).

Hopefully this helps some (or someone else has a different suggestion)!


----------



## whitepoodles

LuvPoo said:


> Hello -
> that isn't working and have him continue the behavior.
> 
> Has anybody else gone through this? Any other training suggestions? I'd appreciate it.



LuvPoo:
This is VERY very normal puppy behavior especially I noted you said late evening hours.

Most of the pups I sell have the tendency to be very laid back during the day, but in the evenings they get a spur of energy not to be believed adn at times act like little MONSTERS with shark teeth all over you etc. etc..

You are NOT experiencing unusual puppy behavior so dont be alarmed.. BUT.. you have to curb this insatiable bite play now or it will be too late if you try doing it in future.

There are people on this forum who are infinitely more educated than I am about obedience etc... and they will be I am sure more than willing to share their books and experiences as obedience trainers and participators with you.

I do know how to raise my puppies to be excellent canine citizens but I would love to have the knowledge that some posess on this forum..

Having said this you are experiencing very normal young puppy behavior and the huge amount of energy at night is quite a common manifestation of puppyhood.

Enjoy your dog, yet curb his bite habit and just choke it to puppyhood "manners" for now. If this persists and continues beyond a certain point and age, then I would be very concerned.

Vibrant, CBrand ,Poodholic,BeachGirl and a few others (sorry) I may forget to mention are a wealth of information here and I Hope they reply to your concerns.

Good luck.


----------



## neVar

i gotta say i was amazed how much MOUTHIER my spoo pup is then any of my aussie pups! 

I agree- often overstimulated/tired when it comes out. So i redirect with either a chewy (never mind we're teething like mad) or by tossing her and an aussie outside to zoom around together.


----------



## Olie

LuvPoo said:


> Hello -
> 
> 
> Has anybody else gone through this? Any other training suggestions? I'd appreciate it.


I have and cant wait to do it again  LOL.

Poodles in my experience are "mouthy" - stay on top of it. Replace with toys, always. Give a little tug let the pup win and go play with it. I played with mine on the floor and when they went to mouth, I replaced with a toy. I also put my fingers on the muzzle gently and said no and again replace with toy.

Tether, and tether. This cures a lot of little behaviors that puppies go through. When the puppy is beside you he cannot bite ankles. I SO wish we had done this with other dogs. Olie we did, and it helps a lot. 

Leash training is key for good behavior and helps young dogs develop boundaries. This is key in potty training, nipping, chewing any other things pups get in to and can be a pit of a pain with. 

Good luck.


----------



## LuvPoo

Thanks everyone for the input so far. He is crate trained, though still learning to "love it" at times. I guess I've been hesitant to use the crate to avoid him getting a negative view about it. It's also on our second floor and all this eveneing mania takes place downstairs. However, it sounds like a good idea. Perhaps I could lure him up there with some outrageous treats and a chew toy for now.
I hadn't considered the fatigue issue. That could be part of it too and enforced settling down time might make sense.
I'll happily await other suggestions.


----------



## whitepoodles

[*QUOTE=Olie;122003]I have and cant wait to do it again  LOL.



Leash training is key for good behavior and helps young dogs develop boundaries. This is key in potty training, nipping, chewing any other things pups get in to and can be a pit of a pain with. 

Good luck.[/QUOTE]*


Olie:

And I totally forgot to mention you too, Shame on me..... Good points as are also the ones mentioned above by NeVar , FJM, Muriecs


----------



## jak

When the puppy is mouthing you, they want you to play! 
They want attention from you, and I find that the best way to deter them from this behaviour, is to let out a sharp yelp, as you are being mouthed, and then get up, walk away and ignore the puppy. The puppy will probably try and gain your attention somehow, do your best to ignore it, it should very quickly learn that mouthing is not fun, because is causes you to ignore it.

I know this method has worked fantastically before, with great success on my Dobermann puppy, and on my grandparents standard poodle who was over 1 year old, when he started nipping and mouthing. 



Lol... there is also fun play mouthing that poodles like to do.. Saffy loves to 'hold' my hand, and as a reward for her doing something good, I will let her 'hold' my hand


----------



## Olie

jak said:


> Lol... there is also fun play mouthing that poodles like to do.. Saffy loves to 'hold' my hand, and as a reward for her doing something good, I will let her 'hold' my hand


Agree Jack! Suri and Olie both do this. It sort of never ends but its never hard and they will not do this with others. 

No problem Ora -


----------



## LuvPoo

Thanks so much Jak. But, this technique hasn't worked very well. We've been trying this since he came home 3.5 weeks ago. He's a determined little guy.


----------



## whitepoodles

My boy Cole is notorious (the little devil) for mouthing people when he wants attention and play, however he does exercise a soft mouth.

As long as a dog does not tighten his grip with his jaws around your hand or any other part of your body but simply is mouthing and play LIGHTELY bitting it is ok and a passing behavior.

It is when the play bite gets aggresive and totally out of hand that I would be worried and concerned.

You have to judge for yourself which one it is intentional bitting or playing.. and act accordingly.

Olie and Jak:

Cole slobbers all over my hands, and heels and I have learnt to accept this as what I label light love bites..  He also is famous for taking my hand into his mouth every so gently and leading me to the door when he nees and/or wants to go out or for a walk.. Amazing boy


----------



## jak

Olie said:


> Agree Jack! Suri and Olie both do this. It sort of never ends but its never hard and they will not do this with others.
> 
> No problem Ora -


I think with this kind of mouthing, it'd be better to allow them to do it when they're older, as doing it now would just confuse them as a puppy


----------



## whitepoodles

*


jak said:



I think with this kind of mouthing, it'd be better to allow them to do it when they're older, as doing it now would just confuse them as a puppy 

Click to expand...

*
Jak:

In this case I am totally in agreement with your statement because the puppy does have a tendency to go a bit over the edge and bite harder than usual.. so in this case yes, prevention is the key.


----------



## jak

LuvPoo said:


> Thanks so much Jak. But, this technique hasn't worked very well. We've been trying this since he came home 3.5 weeks ago. He's a determined little guy.


Could you tell me what happens when you try this method ? Do you ignore her until she settles ? Nobody else gives her attention do they ?


----------



## Searcher

Does he play with other puppies? My understanding is that bite inhibition also needs to be taught to them by other puppies. Have you read Ian Dunbar's book 'After I Get My Puppy'? Is there a puppy play group that you can attend?


----------



## LuvPoo

We do all those things, including timeouts, as I mentioned in my first post. It is sometimes effective if we repeat it (because he will always nip our backsides a few times) but only if he isn't extremely wound up. this is usually during the day when he's calmer. In the evening, once he's on a tirade it isn't effective.


----------



## jak

LuvPoo said:


> We do all those things, including timeouts, as I mentioned in my first post. It is sometimes effective if we repeat it (because he will always nip our backsides a few times) but only if he isn't extremely wound up. this is usually during the day when he's calmer. In the evening, once he's on a tirade it isn't effective.


So what do you do for timeouts ? The best way to train this habit out, is to get him before he gets wound up, as he is not going to learn anything in this state of mind. He will just be too crazy to learn anything.

I would suggest getting him in a situation, where you know he will mouth, but before he is wound up. After he is wound up, there is nothing you can do to train the mouthing out.


----------



## LuvPoo

We've got a puppy playdate set for tonight. He had a couple week before last. It's been tough because we've been told to keep away from our wonderful Prospect Park here in Brooklyn, where dogs can run and play off leash up until 9 AM until he's fully vaccinated. I know we took our first Spoo pup into the park when he was quite young back in '92 and it was a great for him and us. Our new boy has been on walks all over the Brooklyn sidewalks, sniffing around trees and other spots where many dogs have passed and has remained healthy. He's getting his 2nd DHPP this weekend and I think we may start taking him to the park next week, despite the warnings from our vet. We live in a middle class area where I believe everyone vaccinates. I haven't heard of any Parvo outbreaks. Hopefully this is a wise gamble.


----------



## fjm

As you say - a gamble, but socialisation is so important. A really well run puppy class, where he can meet other puppies in a safe environment, is invaluable, as is meeting older, kindly, vaccinated dogs. I was very lucky that my neighbours had two thoroughly sensible, gentle Spinones when my two were tiny. Sadly one passed away at Christmas, but they have made an excellent lasting impression on all the local puppies.

While recognising that he is still a baby, with a very limited attention span, I think I would be concentrating on impulse control with your puppy. Loads of fun exercises and games if you Google, and on the excellent Dogstar Daily site.


----------



## Searcher

I would like to reiterate a puppy preschool or kindergarten. It is very important that he play with puppies close to his own age & many of them. The dog park may not have puppies. 
With our puppy, we choose to socialize over isolating her until her shot series was complete. Yes, there is a risk of getting disease. We felt the danger of having an unsocialized puppy was just too great. We went on walks in the neighborhood from the beginning & to the park (not the dog parks, we did that at 16 weeks) along with attending puppy socialization classes.


----------



## puppylove

I have found poodles to be pretty mouthy also. Jackson always has been, he never bites down but I don't like it. So I kept a bottle of Bitter Apple in my garage next to the door and when I came home I would spray my arms and pant legs before I came in. In just a few days he had mostly stopped.

He's a year and a half now and much better but he still does get so excited once in a while that he forgets. Training a youngster is a never ending process. Don't lose hope!


----------



## Penjilum-Poodles

My mom and I brought home our little girls nearly two months ago, and they are in the nippy stage. It has gotten alot better, but we have a TON of toys hanging around and when ever they get mouthy we simply hand them a toy and ignore them. We've had much success with doing this. If I'm sitting with my girl, rubbing her chest and she begins to bitey-mouth I do as jak suggested let out a yelp. lol, it gets her attention. She lets go immediately. Then I'll ignore her. 

They sleep most of the day, but they have their "play periods" and then it's back sleeping. I don't know if you walk your spoo but our girls get a walk every day. I see the difference if they didn't get their daily walks. I also take my girl out in the yard and we have some fetch sessions, as well as I do some obedience training each day. Rayah's quite a sharp tool, when training I can just see her mind expanding, she is so smart and she figures things out quick. Got to keep them entertained and stimulated. 

Best wishes,


----------



## Beach girl

At this age those rope chew toys might be a good idea, as well as soft stuffed animals he can really sink his teeth into.

I believe in teaching that hands are not chew toys, ever, so would take my hands away from any mouthing poodles, and then ignore him. Give him a toy, but wait a couple minutes so he does not get the idea that the toy is a reward for chewing on your hands.

Also, be careful in how you play with him. Some people like to sort of rough-house with their dogs by slapping the floor in front of the dog, or sort of smacking the dog around lightly on his face, or teasing the dog by offering a toy and then jerking it back, to encourage the dog to go for it. None of that is a good idea as it just encourages mouthy behavior.


----------



## JE-UK

I think you can see the retriever instincts in the mouthiness, as least I can in mine. Even at a year old, he has to either have something in his mouth or hold my hand in his mouth when I come home from work. 

I know just what you mean about the devil-puppy mania. *They DO grow out of it. * I found that when mine got manic, I could usually get past it by playing hard with him for ten minutes, THEN asking for him to think about settling. The rope toys were too hard for him, but he LOVED long socks with knots tied in them. 

We had to battle the puppy biting for quite a while, yelling 'OW' when he even touched with his teeth and substituting a toy. We lived for quite a while with toys in EVERY room, just so one would be handy. 

Other puppies are the best, though, as someone else said. They wear each other out much better than you could.


----------



## cbrand

From the beginning, I never allow my dogs to put their mouths on people. I think it is dangerous, especially for children. When I hear these stories about wound up puppies who pester their owners, I always think..... your puppy bites you because you allow your puppy to bite you. See..... I'm the big meanie on this board. I don't do the turn and "stand like a tree" or give the puppy an alternative toy. I am very, very clear that putting a mouth on me is strictly VERBOTEN and guess what? Puppies don't bite me. 

I would keep this puppy on a leash. This will give you more physical control and keep the puppy from doing a drive-by nip. If you can't keep it on a leash during the witching hour, put the puppy in a crate. When a puppy puts it mouth on me, I grab its muzzle and squeeze. Hard. Hard enough to really make my point. I yelp OUCH! in a high pitched and loud voice. This is enough to stop most puppies in their tracks. If the puppy comes back at you, you did not do it hard enough or your OUCH! was not sufficiently loud or startling enough.

The flip side of this is that now you need to give the puppy something positive to do. The root of this behavior is that the puppy is bored and a bit manic. Now would be the time to run through a couple of working command: Sit, Down, Shake, Spin, Come into heal position, Retrieve.... whatever. Give the puppy something it can be successful at. Then I would offer a toy like a bully stick or a filled kong that will keep the puppy occupied for a while. 

If you don't have time to do this because you are getting dinner on the table or you are helping kids with homework, then crate the puppy until you are able to give it some one on one time.


----------



## neVar

don't worry Cbrand- i'm the big meanie with you... you can ignore them til the cows come home doesn't teach them NOt to do it IMO. but a smart smack on the but or a flick on the nose that is uncomfortable with a NO does.


----------



## LuvPoo

No thanks to any hitting. My best friend has been routinely smacking her female G. Danes on the nose as a reprimand for years. (I never thought this was great.) They're so docile no ill effects have come about. Now that she has a young male (who has been winning conformation titles like crazy) what she's getting back is a dog that snaps and is over protective.


----------



## cbrand

Your choice, but you have to ask yourself..... are you getting the results you want using your current methods?


----------



## LuvPoo

I had no objection to your holding the muzzle advice. If the crating & tethering, which I think I will try next doesn't work, I may try this along with your other positive activity advice. (Which I do already.) I am against hitting, though.


----------



## neVar

just to clarify- i did not say to smack the head- just a flick on the nose... 

I raise aussies- who are very dominent dogs- and turning and ignoring them does NOTHING with the higher drive ones... a flick on the nose (or holding tight like Cbrand) will however. it has to be something that is uncomfortable for them. Spraying with a squirt bottle works too.. 

But you also have to be able to READ your dog. the diciplin has to be enough that it gets a reaction (IE "OH that sucked") but not so harsh that it gets fear! that's wrong.
Aussies have scruff- and we always say it's for grabbing and giving a firm "NO" to get their attention. Try that with my danish dog- you might not have a nose left  

However if what your doing is not working you need to do something that DOES. Positive is great- i'm a HUGE clicker person- but i have always been taught- positive reinforcement doesn't mean there is no negative reinforcement. IE counter surfing- putting something on the counter to snap/crackle/spray is a negative reinforcement. WE dont' just click and praise for NOT doing something. when they do something wrong there needs to be a consequence for them some dogs don't need that- but smarter/drivey dogs do IMO.


----------



## tenortime

This is going to sound strange. Our havanese was having issues with getting overexcited in the evening about 8:30 every night. She would just race all over and get nippy. We brought in a dog behaviorist to address this issue and some others. He recommended that we try putting a dog sweater on Sadie when she gets too wild. He tried it--she fell asleep on his lap. Now, when we even bring out the sweater she lies down calm as can be. Maybe give it a try. It has something to do with body warmth and the feeling that they are being held; thereby calming them.


----------



## whitepoodles

LOLOL concerning "smacking"

My friend has a young daughter about 11 years old and she did something bad sometime ago, her dad told us he smacked her LIGHTELY on her fanny and put her in her room as we do with dogs for "time out"

The child told her father "if you hit me again, I will call the police on you"

Yes folks, kids today do watch TV and listen to the news....and they are aware that they have legal rights in Canada these days which they did not in past.

I wish dogs would too.... hwell:

So pls. no smacking,,,, just hold the dog firmly by its jowels, turn him over his back on the floor stand on top of him and give him the most mean bitchy look you can master and GROWL at him with your most mean gutteral voice, saying NO at the same time. 

Trust me it will work wonders , he will be sooooo :scared: of you !

16 years of experience talkin here...


----------



## Olie

LuvPoo said:


> I had no objection to your holding the muzzle advice. If the crating & tethering, which I think I will try next doesn't work, I may try this along with your other positive activity advice. (Which I do already.) I am against hitting, though.


I agree with you. Again this is pretty typical as many have said and trying these steps should at least help. In time you can then "learn" your dog once he's been with you a while. He is so young and new to all of you, yet..... :rolffleyes: 

I think some great advice has been offered and at the end of the day, you are in baby stages at this point and trying the basics. I am certain will go along way. 

I would not say your plans are not working because you did not have a broader picture. And not everyones opinions are to the taste of some owners and this does not mean that what you are comfortable trying, wont work. I hope we get an update soon!


----------

