# Alegros' silver toy



## schnauzerpoodle

hmm…. no reply for 5 days…. so i assume there's nobody that has a super bad experience about this kennel to share nor does anyone have something to rave about it then.


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## roxy25

I am not really into toys so I have no idea about this breeder. I went to the website and it looks like they breed some nice toys. 

You may want to contact bamsd619 on here he breeds toys and probably knows a lot about what good toy breeders are out there with silvers. 

( I will look in poodle variety when I get home for you)


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## Poodle Lover

I checked the website and the only thing I notice is that there is no mention of health testing on the website. If you were considering this breeder, I would find out.


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## roxy25

Poodle Lover said:


> I checked the website and the only thing I notice is that there is no mention of health testing on the website. If you were considering this breeder, I would find out.


I agree just glanced at website just be sure to ask for proof of health testing with any breeder.


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## schnauzerpoodle

They did talk about a little bit: We are careful in breeding only healthy poodles with sound temperament by testing for the following: Optigen prcd-PRA and Patellar Luxation.

That doesn't sound good enough for me. That's why I decided to see if you guys have heard anything about this kennel and then I might email them and ask for more details. I am not ready for another pup yet so I feel like wasting their time if I start writing them.


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## Dogsinstyle

Alla is a wonderful person/breeder. She is from eastern europe, so there may be a slight translation problem, I'm not sure who does her website. She was instrumental in helping my friend getting the papers for her Russian dog- it is a whole different world there.
Carole


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## Dogsinstyle

As for testing, each of the dogs on this page has it's testing listed:
Champions # 4
Carole


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## schnauzerpoodle

thanks a lot. i'll contact her and learn more about her toy poodles.


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## roxy25

here are some kennels i found 

Nanjac Toy Poodles
Harten Poodles | Sharon Svoboda | Poodle Puppies For Sale | AKC Registered Handler
R Luv Poodles - Miniature and Toy Poodles For Sale
Specializing in Miniature Poodles & Toy Poodles
Poco A Poco Toy Poodles
Miniature Poodle Breeder - AKC Standard Poodles - South Carolina Poodle Breeder - SC


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## schnauzerpoodle

thanks for the list. i have narrowed down to Poco A Poco, Amity Valley Kennel and Clarion (no silver toy though).


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## schnauzerpoodle

So I emailed Alegros earlier and asked my list of questions, e.g. cost of their puppies, terms of their contract, tests that they have done on their parents, pedigree… 

And I received a one-line reply asking me to FIRST fill out their application. So without knowing the answers to any of the above questions, why should I even fill out an application?


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## KalaMama

schnauzerpoodle said:


> So I emailed Alegros earlier and asked my list of questions, e.g. cost of their puppies, terms of their contract, tests that they have done on their parents, pedigree…
> 
> And I received a one-line reply asking me to FIRST fill out their application. So without knowing the answers to any of the above questions, why should I even fill out an application?


I hate it when breeders do that. If they don't have five seconds to answer those questions so that you don't have to spend half an hour filling out an application for a puppy you know nothing about, then move on to one that does


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## schnauzerpoodle

Exactly!!! I don't want to waste my time and hers! Why can't she just answer my questions and remind me that she needs a formal application from me? If I am happy with her answers, I would definitely fill out the application! And, I think my questions are all legitimate ones. She should know, from the questions I asked, that my inquiry was a serious one and still, she didn't think she should at least 'entertain' this potential buyer.


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## spoowhisperer

Amitly is where I got my silver beige mini. I spent quite a bit of time with Anne at her kennel and saw many of her dogs ( which all adore her by the way). All were gorgeous!


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## schnauzerpoodle

Thanks, SW. I have checked out Amity and her dogs look great. I just wanted to check out all the potential (silver) breeders in CA and nearby states before heading to the midwest or the east coast. I am trying to avoid having a toy puppy shipped. Maybe I should just settle with a brown toy with a local breeder who is very reputable then.


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## whitepoodles

Poodle Lover said:


> I checked the website and the only thing I notice is that there is no mention of health testing on the website. If you were considering this breeder, I would find out.




Poodlelover:
I believe this is incorrect. Please go back to the website above each dog's pedigree (foreigh/european with U.S. mixed lines) they mention the Optigen (A) , patella, hips.... They definitely do the testing. This is the first thing I looked at. Pls. go back and look again..


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## whitepoodles

schnauzerpoodle said:


> They did talk about a little bit: We are careful in breeding only healthy poodles with sound temperament by testing for the following: Optigen prcd-PRA and Patellar Luxation.
> That doesn't sound good enough for me. That's why I decided to see if you guys have heard anything about this kennel and then I might email them and ask for more details. I am not ready for another pup yet so I feel like wasting their time if I start writing them.


But this is precisely the ONLY genetic testing needed for this variety (the toy). The standards have quite an extensive list of genetic tests they have to undergo before being bred, but TOYS only need Optigen/PRA, and Patella check.

Also my very good friend and client who is waiting for one of my puppies (show) from Lola and Cole's litter knows Amity (Anne Sepo) and swears by her.. She has beautiful poodles and is a very direct honest and ethical breeder. So there is a choice here.

Also I agree a breeder should FIRST answer a client's questions and then ask them to fill out a questionaire.. I would not waist time on someone who insists I fill out a questionaire and not reply to my valid questions regarding genetic testing.


Good luck in finding the right toy breeder and remember you dont have to settle just because of georgraphical location.


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## spoowhisperer

whitetpoodles "Also my very good friend and client who is waiting for one of my puppies (show) from Lola and Cole's litter knows Amity (Anne Sepo) and swears by her.. She has beautiful poodles and is a very direct honest and ethical breeder. So there is a choice here."
Yes, I too would highly recommend her! She was so honest with me, and really wanted me to end up with the best puppy that would fit me! 
schnauzerpoodle, I do understand wanting to find one near you, that's what I was so concerned about too. But then found out Amily was 20 minutes down the road from me, (from our cabin) it was a miracle! Was so so so nice to be able to put my hands on the dogs and puppies, and get a feel for things.


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## Mercury

Hello My silver toy is from the breeder you are asking about. He is fabulous. He is the sweetest temperament and spunky enough to keep up with my wild Sheltie.


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## Mercury

schnauzerpoodle said:


> Exactly!!! I don't want to waste my time and hers! Why can't she just answer my questions and remind me that she needs a formal application from me? If I am happy with her answers, I would definitely fill out the application! And, I think my questions are all legitimate ones. She should know, from the questions I asked, that my inquiry was a serious one and still, she didn't think she should at least 'entertain' this potential buyer.


I would love to talk to you about my experience with this breeder. I have an album of photo's of my Silver toy named Mercury. I have been extremely happy with the health and personality of my puppy. He is now 4 months old and just had his first big boy hair cut.


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## N2Mischief

Mercury, just a heads up...this thread was started in 2010.


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## Ooohhs-n-Aaahhs

Dogsinstyle said:


> Alla is a wonderful person/breeder. She is from eastern europe, so there may be a slight translation problem, I'm not sure who does her website. She was instrumental in helping my friend getting the papers for her Russian dog- it is a whole different world there.
> Carole


I spoke with a breeder on the east coast who, although does not know her very well, said she had heard nothing negative about her and said she had lovely dogs. I believe Alla is very creative and she designed her own website.


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## Ooohhs-n-Aaahhs

N2Mischief said:


> Mercury, just a heads up...this thread was started in 2010.


Oops, I did I did the same thing as Mercury and did not note the date. So sorry...


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## Lplummer52

Lena is an Allegros Poodle. This breeder is German and I think is not comfortable speaking English. She communicates just fine in an email and is on Facebook and very involved with Poodle rescue and small breeder rights. I filled out the application online and was contacted immediately which is more than I can say about a lot of other breeders I contacted online and on the phone. I told her exactly what I wanted and I got exactly what I wanted. Very healthy, very happy, very sound, very smart Miniature Poodle bitch. My emails were all answered within 24 hours and I had a LOT of questions. She sent me pictures of the puppy, both her sire and dam and their pedigrees. I have her with the usual spay contract where I get the papers if she's spayed after 6 months of age. I am toying with the idea of showing her in obedience and/or agility, so this appealed to me. She is a woman of few words, but that doesn't bother me. She breeds beautiful, sound dogs with excellent temperaments and that's all that matters.


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## Lplummer52

Oh, and by the way, she does ALL the testing and I was able to look up Lena's sire and dam on the internet and see that both her parents tested excellent on knees, hips and eyes and a lot of other stuff I really didn't understand. Her dam is a Karbits Poodle which appealed to me because of all the field work they do with their dogs. Obviously, Allegos has diversified their breeding program bringing in new bloodlines to improve the breed. This is basically a small, show breeder, but I think she knows what she's doing.


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## lsm52

Hi everyone. I know this is an old thread, but I just wanted to add that I've been emailing Alla about a white toy boy and she was immediately responsive, answered all my questions before I filled out an app. I was able to see all the testing of the parents and the lines. I'm going to get my new toy boy this weekend - she's shipping to me in Boston, which is exciting and scary all at the same time! Just wanted to say I spoke with several other breeders who were not nearly as thorough or forthcoming, and I'm very happy with Alegros


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## patk

i have been following her site for a long time. very glad to hear that you are getting one of her dogs. hope you will start a 52 week thread.

and, yes, i know this is an old thread, but in this case it's nice to have all the opinions in one place, both for and against.


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## Ooohhs-n-Aaahhs

lsm52 said:


> Hi everyone. I know this is an old thread, but I just wanted to add that I've been emailing Alla about a white toy boy and she was immediately responsive, answered all my questions before I filled out an app. I was able to see all the testing of the parents and the lines. I'm going to get my new toy boy this weekend - she's shipping to me in Boston, which is exciting and scary all at the same time! Just wanted to say I spoke with several other breeders who were not nearly as thorough or forthcoming, and I'm very happy with Alegros



Alla is wonderful. I happen to own one of her blue toy boys and he is such a love. Alla wants to ensure that her puppies go to good homes and she was extremely careful about shipping Eli to me (I reside in NJ and since it was November, Alla would not ship until the temperature was perfect for him). She responded to my queries the first week or so I had him and I send her periodic photographs of how he is doing. I cannot believe he will be a year old in September! My next puppy will definitely be from Alla.


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## Lplummer52

Just a quick note to say you will be so happy with your new puppy....I've seen pictures of him on Facebook and he is adorable. I am friends with Alla on FB. Shipping went fine for me from TX to FL. Very exciting and I am so happy for you.


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## lsm52

So reassuring to hear that shipping will be okay. It looks like I'll be meeting my boy at Logan Airport this weekend! Gotta go get everything "small" as everything I had is "big" - I had a marvelous standard who died after a stroke this summer at 13 years. So a toy is going to be a huge change. All advice welcome.


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## patk

lsm52: don't forget to start a separate thread once your boy arrives - or even before, if you want to share your experiences with him. most people do not check threads like this one for updates on specific dogs. looking forward to a new thread with lots of photos.

and lplummer52: good to hear from you again. i enjoyed your earlier posts about lena's puppyhood. would love an update.


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## Lplummer52

A toy will take longer to housebreak just because his bladder is smaller. And you'll have to take care not to step on him because they're always underfoot. Other than that, most toys think they're big dogs anyway and poodles are poodles no matter how small. I recently adopted a rescue Italian Greyhound which makes me appreciate my poodle A LOT!


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## Tiny Poodles

Lplummer52 said:


> A toy will take longer to housebreak just because his bladder is smaller. And you'll have to take care not to step on him because they're always underfoot. Other than that, most toys think they're big dogs anyway and poodles are poodles no matter how small. I recently adopted a rescue Italian Greyhound which makes me appreciate my poodle A LOT!



I respectfully disagree that Toys take longer to housebreak!
But do be careful, they are much more breakable than you are accustomed to!


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## Lplummer52

Hmmmm. My Standard years ago was housebroken at 3 mos. Never had a smaller dog be housebroken quicker than that. Most poodles "get it" at 4-5 months. Other small dogs I've had took 6-9 months.


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## N2Mischief

Misha was housebroken by 9 weeks. Has never had an accident. She will be 3 years old in October.


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## Tiny Poodles

N2Mischief said:


> Misha was housebroken by 9 weeks. Has never had an accident. She will be 3 years old in October.



Most of my girls were fully housebroken within a week of coming home, Tangee took 2 1/2 weeks. And seriously "accident" isn't in our vocabulary here, it just doesn't happen.


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## Poodlebeguiled

My dogs learned in one day. All you have to do is crack them on their butts when you discover an accident. You must be the alpha and be dominant. :alberteinstein:


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## patk

mischief and timi, do you think this is because your dogs are pad-trained? i know timi now knows she can go outside, too, but i'm wondering if pad training (with the pad always available) helps with quicker training.


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## N2Mischief

It very well could be. Even though her breeder never said anything about pad training, she seemed to already know that was where she was supposed to go. We just had to show her where it was and that was pretty much the end of it. 

I have taken her to my sister's house a couple of times. I put the piddle pad down in her laundry room, show Misha once, and she never has an accident.

I was never a believer in piddle pads because I had rescues that would pee on bath mats and I always thought it might be because they may have been piddle pad trained as pups. Never knew for sure. But with Misha, she would never pee on a bath mat, only her pee pads. 

Maybe because poodles are so smart?

Anyways, Patk, you may have a point there.


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## lsm52

I'm conflicted about using pee pads. The breeder says she's been using them. But how can I cleanly transition to reliably going outdoors if an indoor pad is used?


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## patk

tiny poodles is the expert on that, lsm57. she went through it with timi. timi seems reliable in both instances.


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## Tiny Poodles

patk said:


> mischief and timi, do you think this is because your dogs are pad-trained? i know timi now knows she can go outside, too, but i'm wondering if pad training (with the pad always available) helps with quicker training.



Well yes, when they were babies, they would use the pad every 2 hours or so, and I imagine it would be pretty difficult for somebody who has to take them out on a leash to keep up with that schedule, so is easy to understand how accidents happen with the outside trained dogs. As adults though, they go just as long between using the pad as an outside trained dogs can go between walks. So there are only two things that you have to teach them - that the pad is the place to go, and that no place else is allowable. Holding it, you donut have to teach, it is something that just naturally develops as they get older. Tangee would use the pad away from home, but Taylee and Teaka would not, and there were times when they Held as long as 12 hours as adults. I have no doubt that Timi could go that long, although she will never have to because she also goes outside.
But still I will take the accolades, because 9 out of 10 people that I meet with pad trained dogs do not have them 100 percent trained - more like 50-75 percent - yuck!


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## Tiny Poodles

lsm52 said:


> I'm conflicted about using pee pads. The breeder says she's been using them. But how can I cleanly transition to reliably going outdoors if an indoor pad is used?



Getting them to go outside is easy if once they have finished their shots, you start taking them out to areas where other dogs do it, they will get the idea, and you be ready with the treats when they do. Timi learned at the dog park, and quickly transitioned to doing it on lead as well.
But, if you want to keep him trained for both, you might have a problem, because sniffing around outside will probably teach him to lift his leg, which does not work well with pads. I have heard of some people who put something in the center of a large pad for them to aim at, and others who keep the pad next to a wall and tape another one to the wall, but I would hate to do that, so that is why I will only have girls...
But if you want to teach him just to go outside, but don't want to do it every hour or two when he is young, then I would keep him pad trained until you see that he is naturally going long enough between pad uses, remove the pad, and start out walking one hour sooner than the length of time that you know he can hold it. But you can certainly start teaching him that going outside too is good, just don't do it on a regular schedule until you are ready to remove the pad.


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## Tiny Poodles

Oh, just read on another thread that you are getting him at 8 weeks? My breeder won't let them go until at least 12 weeks, mine were 14 - 16 weeks when I got them, and they used the pad every hour or two when awake at first, so I am thinking that at his age, you may only be talking a half hour - an hour that he can hold it, I don't know how you would train him initially without pads!


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## TrixieTreasure

lsm52 said:


> So reassuring to hear that shipping will be okay. It looks like I'll be meeting my boy at Logan Airport this weekend! Gotta go get everything "small" as everything I had is "big" - I had a marvelous standard who died after a stroke this summer at 13 years. So a toy is going to be a huge change. All advice welcome.


We used Delta Airlines in 2000 when we had Kaydee shipped from Mississippi to Oregon. Everything went perfectly. If I remember right, it took 5 hours ( maybe it was 5 and 1/2) The moment I opened up her little carrier, she ran right into my arms. Probably not so much because she wanted me, but more like, she wanted OUT of that carrier, lol.

Stay in touch and let us know how it goes!


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## TrixieTreasure

lsm52 said:


> I'm conflicted about using pee pads. The breeder says she's been using them. But how can I cleanly transition to reliably going outdoors if an indoor pad is used?


What I think is, the first week or two of getting him, you should prob. continue with pee pads. Just so that it won't confuse the little guy. He's going to be pretty nervous as it is when he first gets to you. Then gradually start taking him outside. Make sure he has all of his shots first before allowing him too much outside.


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## lsm52

Tiny Poodles said:


> Oh, just read on another thread that you are getting him at 8 weeks? My breeder won't let them go until at least 12 weeks, mine were 14 - 16 weeks when I got them, and they used the pad every hour or two when awake at first, so I am thinking that at his age, you may only be talking a half hour - an hour that he can hold it, I don't know how you would train him initially without pads!





Kathy Ann said:


> What I think is, the first week or two of getting him, you should prob. continue with pee pads. Just so that it won't confuse the little guy. He's going to be pretty nervous as it is when he first gets to you. Then gradually start taking him outside. Make sure he has all of his shots first before allowing him too much outside.


This is so helpful. If I'm understanding correctly, I can (and probably should) continue with pads at least initially and then remove them when pup can be taken outside? Will he still be looking for the pad and "go" where it had been located?


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## lily cd re

As long as you have used something like Nature's Miracle to thoroughly clean any remnants of little misses around where the pad was you shouldn't have any problems. Just make sure that you are diligent about the potty schedule and that your pup understands all aspects of potty training as Tiny Poodles described with respect to this is where to go and any other place is 100% not going to be allowed. Right now Javelin understands that outside is where to go, but if we miss his request to go out (quietly waiting by the door) he has shown that he still doesn't really understand that it isn't ok to go inside. He can sleep through the night with no problem, but we have to get him out the door right away when he gets up.

Good luck with your pup! I bet you can hardly wait for Friday to get here.


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## Tiny Poodles

If I were you, when he was ready to go out, I would encourage potty outside, and reward instantly and heavily for it when he does, but I would not remove the pad until you see him naturally waiting a decent amount of hours between pad uses, and he has 100 percent learned that anyplace else in the house is unacceptable. There is no reason to rush it before he has a strong physical capacity, and has learned his housebreaking lesson well. Dogs almost always have a natural preference for doing it outside - even though Timi doesn't even go out every day, at 1 1/2 years old, I have no doubt that I could change her over to outside only today if I wanted to, because 1) she naturally only goes every 8 hours on the pad, she is fully HOUSEbroken, not having had an accident here, or anywhere else since her first week home, and she LOVES going outside, because she gets 100 percent reinforcement for it. In fact someday when we are able to travel with her, we plan to do it sans pads, and don't expect to have any problems with that at all.


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## lsm52

Wonderful advice, Tiny Poodles! So now my question is - are there different TYPES of pads and if so, how do I choose which one?


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## Tiny Poodles

lsm52 said:


> Wonderful advice, Tiny Poodles! So now my question is - are there different TYPES of pads and if so, how do I choose which one?



Oh yes, there are a million different types of pads! I buy human grade pads because you have many more choices in size, and various absorbency levels. With a puppy though, since you will presumably have them confined in a relatively small space with the pad close to their bed, I tend to change it frequently, after one or two uses, because I don't want them to get comfortable with hanging out with their messes, so I get the cheaper, less absorbent pads. When they are older, and no longer crated, I get the more expensive ones that dry quickly - a dollar pad, that she can use for 24 hours or more, winds up being less expensive than a 25 cent pad that you have to change after every pee.
Allegro Medical is the website that I buy my pads from. Sign up for their emails, they give significant weekly discounts!


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## Dechi

Personnally I hate pipi pads amd I don't use them unless I am really forced to. If you take the puppy outside right away, there won't be two steps to be housebroken, only one. He will learn fast and won't have to adapt to change. Even if you clean well (use a solution of vinegar and water), peeing and pooing in the house will be natural for the puppy. Of course if you work, there has to be newspapers or pipi pads in the designated are. If you're home, never give access to it.

I just adopted an 18 months old toy who had never set foot outside. I find adults harder to train than puppies, because they don't need to go as often and the association "outside = pee and poo " takes longer. Still he never had an accident inside for pee. No2 is going well, still an accident at night here and then.

Whatever you choose, lots of fun to be had !


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## Tiny Poodles

Dechi said:


> Personnally I hate pipi pads amd I don't use them unless I am really forced to. If you take the puppy outside right away, there won't be two steps to be housebroken, only one. He will learn fast and won't have to adapt to change. Even if you clean well (use a solution of vinegar and water), peeing and pooing in the house will be natural for the puppy. Of course if you work, there has to be newspapers or pipi pads in the designated are. If you're home, never give access to it.
> 
> I just adopted an 18 months old toy who had never set foot outside. I find adults harder to train than puppies, because they don't need to go as often and the association "outside = pee and poo " takes longer. Still he never had an accident inside for pee. No2 is going well, still an accident at night here and then.
> 
> Whatever you choose, lots of fun to be had !



But you are talking about an 8 week old puppy, who will probably have to "go" every 30-60 minutes when he is awake - taking away pads would just be asking for house accidents and crate soiling! I bet he will wake up every two or three hours during the night to go too - for the first several months, I would find that Timi had used the pad 2-3 times during the night, and she was six weeks older than this puppy when I got her. 
While I do believe that an adult Toy can hold it just as well as an adult Spoo, Toys do develop more slowly than Standards. An 8 week old Toy is truly still an infant, you cannot expect too much out of them yet. Better to set them up for success than failure, then if she should find that she has a quick developer, she can progress more quickly in the training.


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## Dechi

Tiny Poodles said:


> But you are talking about an 8 week old puppy, who will probably have to "go" every 30-60 minutes when he is awake - taking away pads would just be asking for house accidents and crate soiling! I bet he will wake up every two or three hours during the night to go too - for the first several months, I would find that Timi had used the pad 2-3 times during the night, and she was six weeks older than this puppy when I got her.
> While I do believe that an adult Toy can hold it just as well as an adult Spoo, Toys do develop more slowly than Standards. An 8 week old Toy is truly still an infant, you cannot expect too much out of them yet. Better to set them up for success than failure, then if she should find that she has a quick developer, she can progress more quickly in the training.


We agree. That's why the designated crated area has to have newspapers or other. But only that spot. Not in the rest of the house, while he is under vigilant watch. That's what I meant.


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## Lplummer52

*No pee pads!*

I know I'll probably piss a lot of people off, but I would never ever use pee pads. First of all, they think they're a toy and will play with them and tear them up before they ever pee on them. Secondly, eliminating inside is what you want to break....that's the meaning of housebreaking. If you have a house with a yard, this should never be a problem getting that puppy out when it needs to go out. Mornings first thing, after meals, after naps, etc. Be sure to carry that puppy out first thing in the morning. Don't let his feet hit the floor! Not too difficult really. Poodles are so smart that they pretty much get it right away. The only accidents you'll have is when YOU are lax. So when your puppy pees or poos in the house, hit yourself over your head with a newspaper. You screwed up. I housetrained my Lena in a condo which was more difficult. Down an elevator, etc., etc. But she always knew inside was not as good as outside. Lots of praise and treats when the job is done. Doesn't take long with a poodle. They get it right away. Now this Italian Greyhound I just adopted is another story. I often say Lena is too smart for her own good. Well, he's too dumb for his own good....HA!


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## lsm52

I would really, really like to avoid pee pads. Pup is going to sleep at night in his crate in my bedroom which is on the second floor. For the middle-of-night and in the morning, should I take him out of his crate and carry him down and outside to "the spot" or should I carry him in the crate outside, then open the door and guide him to the spot?


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## lily cd re

Take him out of the crate and carry him. Make sure you keep a hand on him and that he doesn't wander away. And if you catch puppies in the act picking them up usually makes them stop.


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## Tiny Poodles

Lplummer52 said:


> I know I'll probably piss a lot of people off, but I would never ever use pee pads. First of all, they think they're a toy and will play with them and tear them up before they ever pee on them. Secondly, eliminating inside is what you want to break....that's the meaning of housebreaking. If you have a house with a yard, this should never be a problem getting that puppy out when it needs to go out. Mornings first thing, after meals, after naps, etc. Be sure to carry that puppy out first thing in the morning. Don't let his feet hit the floor! Not too difficult really. Poodles are so smart that they pretty much get it right away. The only accidents you'll have is when YOU are lax. So when your puppy pees or poos in the house, hit yourself over your head with a newspaper. You screwed up. I housetrained my Lena in a condo which was more difficult. Down an elevator, etc., etc. But she always knew inside was not as good as outside. Lots of praise and treats when the job is done. Doesn't take long with a poodle. They get it right away. Now this Italian Greyhound I just adopted is another story. I often say Lena is too smart for her own good. Well, he's too dumb for his own good....HA!



That may work for a 16 week old Toy, if one was very diligent, but no way is an 8 week old going to go overnight without pottying - if you don't give them an acceptable place to go, you will have them soiling their crate.


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## TrixieTreasure

Lplummer52 said:


> I know I'll probably piss a lot of people off, but I would never ever use pee pads. First of all, they think they're a toy and will play with them and tear them up before they ever pee on them. Secondly, eliminating inside is what you want to break....that's the meaning of housebreaking. If you have a house with a yard, this should never be a problem getting that puppy out when it needs to go out. Mornings first thing, after meals, after naps, etc. Be sure to carry that puppy out first thing in the morning. Don't let his feet hit the floor! Not too difficult really. Poodles are so smart that they pretty much get it right away. The only accidents you'll have is when YOU are lax. So when your puppy pees or poos in the house, hit yourself over your head with a newspaper. You screwed up. I housetrained my Lena in a condo which was more difficult. Down an elevator, etc., etc. But she always knew inside was not as good as outside. Lots of praise and treats when the job is done. Doesn't take long with a poodle. They get it right away. Now this Italian Greyhound I just adopted is another story. I often say Lena is too smart for her own good. Well, he's too dumb for his own good....HA!


Very good advice and I agree, JUST AS LONG AS THE PUP IS FULLY VACCINATED FIRST. With all of my 9 Poodles I had over the years, I never used pee pads. Just didn't want to. And every one of mine were puppies when I got them. I always found putting down newspapers and putting up baby gates( when I couldn't be home), plus crating them at night, with leaving newspapers in the crate, worked well. They normally didn't like the crate at first, but then learned to go right into it when it was sleepy bye time. It didn't take long at all before they were pretty much housetrained, with only an accident now and then.

With that said, I also think it depends on where a person lives. A person who lives in a high rise apartment building, would not have easy or quick access to the outside grass. May take longer to get outside with the pup, and by that time, the pup could have already gone--- all over you ( and that would NOT be fun). So I absolutely understand why some people would use pee pads for their pups. But if it only takes a few steps to go outside with them, then, in my opinion, that's the best way.


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## N2Mischief

Well Misha has never chewed up or played with a P pad!we have owls and hawks here. We also have coyotes that can easily jump a six-foot wall. These are all reasons why I won't take my 4 pounds toy poodle out side to go potty.


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## TrixieTreasure

Also wanted to say to Ism52 is, you and your baby will get it worked out just fine. The great thing about puppyhood is that you both will be learning together. If he has an accident, he will learn better the next time. If you make a mistake, you'll know better the next time. It all about learning, making mistakes, and eventually getting the hang of it.


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## TrixieTreasure

N2Mischief said:


> Well Misha has never chewed up or played with a P pad!we have owls and hawks here. We also have coyotes that can easily jump a six-foot wall. These are all reasons why I won't take my 4 pounds toy poodle out side to go potty.


Oh my! I forgot about the dangers that could happen. Totally understandable!


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## lsm52

Kathy Ann said:


> Also wanted to say to Ism52 is, you and your baby will get it worked out just fine. The great thing about puppyhood is that you both will be learning together. If he has an accident, he will learn better the next time. If you make a mistake, you'll know better the next time. It all about learning, making mistakes, and eventually getting the hang of it.


Thanks, Kathy. He's flying in tomorrow and I've gotten everything I need to get started, I think. Handling the initial pottying is what's giving me the most concern.


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## lily cd re

If one has a fenced yard and supervises carefully puppies can go outside before being immunized. Javelin (admittedly spoo and bigger) has gone in the yard since day one and there haven't been any papers or pads anywhere in our house. For a young toy I would probably have an in house papered or pad location though, but still take the pup outside as much as possible if there is a safe space.


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## kayla_baxter

Tiny Poodles said:


> That may work for a 16 week old Toy, if one was very diligent, but no way is an 8 week old going to go overnight without pottying - if you don't give them an acceptable place to go, you will have them soiling their crate.



I don't expect any of my puppies to hold it overnight at 8 weeks, regardless of size. My mini was 2.2lbs when I found her on the side of the road at 8-9 weeks, and she was house trained the same way I trained my labs and Great Danes. Puppies are taken outside every 20-30 minutes while awake, after every meal, drink, nap and play, and are in sight at all times. From 8-12 weeks I expect to be up at least once during the night with puppies, I set an alarm to get up and because I keep the crate in the bedroom in the beginning I'm right there if the pup has to go out more than once. I generally have my puppies house trained within two weeks and there has never been a pee pad in my house. I also follow the age in months plus one rule for length of crating for young puppies. 8 weeks old (2 months) I wouldn't expect to be able to hold it in the crate for more than 3 hours. 


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