# Red Toy Pooodle Breeder



## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Hi and Welcome! 

You don't mention whether this is your first time researching and selecting a quality, conscientious breeder. In case this is new for you I'm adding a Tips list first. 

*We often hear from folks that they just want a pet.* What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that the quality, conscientious breeders are _always_ breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions, but are flawless to us .

*It's not unusual to think that there are possibly thousands of breeders to choose from*. For quality, conscientious breeders, that number is more likely only in the hundreds in the US and Canada. A bottom line difference is between those who're breeding primarily for profit and those who're breeding because they feel not only love for poodles but an obligation to the entire breed. Each of their, usually infrequent, breedings are thoughtfully chosen to try to improve something in their lines and consequently the future of the breed.

*About reviews,* a happy owner doesn't necessarily mean an informed owner. It's as likely they've just been lucky, so far. Review any negative comments carefully, if they're allowed to appear.

*Getting a puppy from a quality, conscientious breeder is something like insurance*. Their investment in the health, welfare, and soundness of all the dogs in their care including the puppies they offer to new homes is part of the reason you're not likely to find a less than $2000 USD puppy from them.

The saying is "pay the breeder or pay the vet". Price alone isn't the only thing to separate quality breeders from those less than. We've seen members quote as high, and even much higher pricing for pups from parents not health tested, not proven to meet breed standards, sold as purebred when only a DNA test could determine that since they may be sold without registration papers.

If I knew the risks and have dedicated poodle health savings of several thousand dollars or pet insurance, knew that basically that the breeder and I would part ways as soon as the pup was in my hands because they're very unlikely to stand behind their pup and me thru the pups life, I might proceed with a breeder that doesn't meet my criteria.

But

I also wouldn't pay quality breeder prices, and over, unless I'm getting all the quality breeder perks.


*Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder.* The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

*Look for and verify OFA/CHIC level testing at a minimum.*
There are also poodle specific DNA panels for other testable genetic conditions. Those are companion tests with the OFA/CHIC testing, not in place of.
CHIC Program | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)
Browse By Breed | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)


*Toy Poodle testing*

The OFA, working with the breed's parent club, recommends the following basic health screening tests for all breeding stock. Dogs meeting these basic health screening requirements will be issued Canine Health Information Center (CHIC) numbers. For CHIC certification, all results do not need to be normal, but they must all be in the public domain so that responsible breeders can make more informed breeding decisions. For potential puppy buyers, CHIC certification is a good indicator the breeder responsibly factors good health into their selection criteria. The breed specific list below represents the basic health screening recommendations. It is not all encompassing. There may be other health screening tests appropriate for this breed. And, there may be other health concerns for which there is no commonly accepted screening protocol available.



*Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)*
DNA-based test from an approved laboratory; results registered with OFA ➚
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Patellar Luxation*
OFA Evaluation, minimum age 1 year ➚
Notes
In addition to the breed specific requirements above, a CHIC requirement across all participating breeds is that the dog must be permanently identified via microchip or tattoo in order to qualify for a CHIC number.


To check the testing that has been done on a dog, you will need one of these, the CHIC number, the (AKC/UKC in the US) registration number, or the registered name of the dog. To check the dog’s testing status, go to: Advanced Search | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO.

Many breeders will perform additional testing on their breeding dogs. All testing is valuable and gives information regarding the breeder’s interest in the future of his/her breeding program. Using the tools that are currently available will allow the breeder to successfully use the entire gene pool in combinations that provide for a healthy future for the breed.

Also see Code of Ethics - The Poodle Club of America


*A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much to back it if *the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

*Read thru any contracts that may be listed. *If they rule out coverage for conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?

*Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times* and with pandemic puppy seekers, that wait is stretched well into 2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs, 9-5 paying job, and family, rather than keep a website updated.

*When you start making contacts, *let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.

*Color preferences are understandable but* keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies.
That beautiful color you fell for may not look the same in a few weeks, or months, or years. Most poodle colors fade.

*Gender preferences* will also limit your options.

*Temperament and personality* are lifelong traits.

*Be prepared to spend *in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

*Be prepared to travel *outside your preferred area.

*As a very general rule, websites to be leery of* are those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience".

*Be wary of a breeder who sells a puppy with full registration rights (breeding rights which allow pups to be registered with the AKC) simply for the price of admission.* A responsible breeder will not allow their reputation and their poodles to be bred by anyone, to any dog, without having a contractual say in the breeding and the pups. They will want to be involved.

*One additional caution, be very wary of those very cute short legged poodles.* That's a genetic mutation which may carry serious life-altering disease.

*An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. *An online search for "Poodle Club of *___* (your city or state/province)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.
PCA National Breeder Referral - The Poodle Club of America
Search for Local Clubs/Breeders - The Poodle Club of America

*As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, this is my shortlist criteria.*

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come.
Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is _well bred._


*Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time *

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards physically and temperamentally, and are sound by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.


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## Iather6 (12 mo ago)

Hello! Thanks for the welcome. I do not want to breed! Just as a pet.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Iather6 said:


> Hello! Thanks for the welcome. I do not want to breed! Just as a pet.


The information pertains to any dog, not just ones who will be bred. There's an old saying: "pay the breeder now or pay the vet later". In other words, a reputable breeder is one whose breeding stock has been tested for and passed all known, testable diseases.

Right now the fad is "red" poodles. That's too bad since breeding for an uncommon color almost always ignores more important traits. I trust you realize that most "red" poodles eventually fade to a cream color?


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## Tulsi (Jun 8, 2021)

I didnt know about fading until I joined this forum. My Rusty who was a lovely brownish orange colour with black ears, muzzle and tail as a puppy is now pale orange with a cream face. He is only 10 months old so plenty of time to change colour yet. They usually fade out until around 3 years old. 

Good luck with your search.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Iather6 said:


> Hello. Everyone,
> I am fairly new here but for about a month I have been looking for a red toy poodle breeder. I have had no luck. Looking for breeders in Illinois, Michigan, Indiana and New Jersey/PA area. If anyone has any reccomendations. Even if it is not in those areas please let me know! You would be really helping a girl out! Thanks you


You didn't mention that you wanted to find a "reputable", "ethical", "accountable", "conscientious", "responsible" breeder rather than a "commercial", "volume", "backyard", "puppy mill". "puppy farm" so I made an assumption that you'd prefer the former.
That is what I described for you.

The former are breeders who not only take the lives of their dogs seriously, but they also breed to ensure the best future for the whole breed.
The latter are concerned with making and distributing puppies as a commodity for a profitable business.

If you want sound health, structure, and temperament, look for the former. Choose for these qualities first, always.

As for poodle colors, almost every color fades, reds included. The likelihood of a red pup keeping that color thru their whole life is very low. This is not a quality issue, it's genetics.

_"Colors that are considered fading colors are: EVERY COLOR BUT BLACK! That means BLUE, SILVER, BROWN, CAFE AU LAIT, SILVER BEIGE, RED, APRICOT, CREAM, and WHITE. This also comes into play when talking about Multicolors and mixes of the above colors. You can pretty much count on a Sable ALWAYS carrying the fading gene and that the puppy will not stay the color that it is when it is born."
COLOR BREEDING IN POODLES (tripod.com) _

POODLE COAT COLORS: OVERVIEW OF ALL COLORS (tripod.com)

Click-N-Treat's beautiful Noelle as an example
As a puppy









As an adult









My (now) cream boy at 8w 4d










1y old









If you'd still like suggestions for quality breeders, we can help you learn what to look for and what to avoid.

We get that it may not feel like it to you just now, but we really are trying to "help a girl out".


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## Poodle2021 (Mar 14, 2021)

Especially since most poodle colors clear (change from the puppy color), and because red is a big fad these days, it is generally advisable to focus on the breeder’s health testing program and other signs of a good breeder over color preference. Health is critical for a long, happy life of the dog. Color is just….color. We have a member on the forum who spent $24,000 on her dog’s medical issues alone. There is a forum listing of quality breeders, I would start there with your search.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Iather6 said:


> Hello! Thanks for the welcome. I do not want to breed! Just as a pet.


I paid $750 for a very cute very sweet wonderful toy poodle pup, it did cost me in the end $25,000 in medical bills for luxating patellas, kidney disease, urinary tract disease, thyroid disease, gall blader mucocele, liver disease and cancer. I did my best to give her a good life, the last two years with the cancer I watched my young dog age rapidly, it was hard to play and hard to walk far. My sweet girl died at 7 1/2 years.
My boy I got from one of the top show breeders in the US for $2500, my boy is beautiful, healthy with a wonderful temperament.
I am on a wait list for my future pup, I want a female silver beige toy I probably won't see her until well into 2023.


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