# Raw feed last two weeks



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think perhaps you need to include something other than chicken, some organ meats, and maybe rather less bone. There is helpful advice on ensuring a good balance here DogAware.com: Diet & Health Info for Man's Best Friend I assume the drumsticks are raw?


----------



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Oh gosh! It sounds like an awful lot of bone. Are you watching the consistency of their poop? After you try one protein, such as chicken for about a week and make sure there is no apparent sensitivity, then you need to switch to another protein source and try that for a while, eventually adding more and more until you're feeding quite a variety of foods. If it's only chicken, they'll for sure be missing essential nutrients in their diet. Soon you need to be adding organ meat. Do read up. It's important to get the balance/ratios of things approximately correct. Here's something else in addition to Fjm's great link and advice.

Switching to a Raw Diet

It's something that is worth studying up on and spending plenty of time learning. I have been and switched to a raw diet back in mid December I think it was. My dogs are doing great and it's become very routine and workable for me. Good luck to you. You can also browse the forum here and see what you can find. Let us know how you're doing or if you have more questions. (I can't believe I'm saying that. I was such a nervous Nelly at first, but have learned a lot since and am continuing to learn.)


----------



## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

I'm trying to get up to speed on this and am a bit anxious but with the help here I'm making progress. I think the girls overall have done pretty well with the switch to raw. I do need to learn more, for sure! The links are an excellent resource and am using them now. Today I'll get some raw meaty bones and begin feeding that more. I'm concerned about the amount I'm feeding, enough, too much? But I'm continuing to read and will solve this important riddle. I must say my shy girl Belle's energy level seems quite improved. She is an absolute nut when it comes to swimming and playing ball. She doesn't seem to tire as quickly. My goodness , she seems possessed ! Haha
But that is fun to see and enjoy. 
By best to the group,
Jcris


----------



## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Hi jcris! What an exciting new land of food tastes and experiences for your girls! I think you were smart to start with the chicken pieces. Now that you know they do well with the chicken, it would be smart to introduce another protein source and let them do that for a few days and see how it goes. 

Opinions differ on whether or not any vegetable or fruit is necessary in the diet, and my opinion is that a little can be very helpful and provide some trace minerals and vitamins as well as provide a little more bulk in the diet. When I first switched to raw, I also just fed meat, bone and organs and, like your girls, I noticed a change in Dulcie's behavior when out -- eating grass and also foraging pretty hard for scraps of veggie matter, bread, etc that she could find in parks discarded by humans. My daughter (who had read a lot more than I had at that point about this behavior) suggested that I add a little veggie back into her diet. So I add about 1/3C Honest Kitchen base mix (I alternate between Preference and Kindly) mixed with hot water and allowed to rehydrate for several minutes before mixing in the smaller bits of her raw protein.

I top with whatever raw meaty bones she is going to have that day (a chicken back or quarter, turkey neck or similar). When serving a RMB with a high bone ratio. I always mix some ground raw meat in the same family (i.e. chicken or turkey grind mixed with HK base mix and topped with a chicken drumstick and thigh, for example). Once I brought back in that small portion of Honest Kitchen veggie/fruit mix, Dulcie's grass-eating and foraging disappeared again.


You can gradually (say over a month or two) add a wide variety of proteins to your girls' diet: beef, pork, fish, lamb, venison, wild game, duck, etc. No doubt they will really enjoy most of it and the variety will ensure that their diet is providing everything they need over time. No need to try to get it all balanced at every single meal. As long as you feed a variety of protein sources (and if you choose, including a very small amount of high quality veggie/fruit mix), then the girls will enjoy optimum nutrition.


Another little bit of "insurance" that I include is a squirt of fish/omega oils several times each week. I have human grade capsules of 1200 mg of fish oil which I simply pierce and squirt over Dulcie's food.

If you get fresh pacific salmon, be sure to freeze it for several weeks before serving it to your dogs. Apparently it is the one source that must be handled a little more carefully than some others, as there is something in it which is neutralized by freezing. Otherwise, don't hesitate to feed salmon or other human grade fishes, since they provide many great dietary benefits to your dogs!

Good luck! I look forward to reading how this raw diet is working out!

PS: I forgot to make a note of the fact that you will need to incorporate some organ meat into the diet as well. This is very important. Tripe does not count as an organ meat in the same way as liver, kidney or spleen. When you are planning meals, think of a 90-5-5 or 85-10-5 ratio. the high number is your muscle meat (including heart, which is a meat and not a true organ for nutritional values) then 5 or 10 per cent bone and 5 per cent organ meat. 

Some butchers and a few pet food start ups are selling coarse grinds which have these ideal ratios already done for you. One of my local grocers, with an in house butchery, will take the bone in meat and organ meat that I select and grind it up for me together. I also order monthly from My Pet Carnivore, which sells a wide variety of free range and wild caught meat and fish grinds in the correct proportions. For a daily menu, then I can feed Dulcie a morning meal of a raw, balanced grind with 1/3 cup of HK base mix and for supper, she gets a RMB with plenty of meat on it (such as a chicken quarter or half a cornish hen) or some combination of RMB and a little extra raw meat grind (without the organ meats).


----------



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Feeding a bigger dog seems easier to get the ratios right than feeding a toy dog. I had some trouble with their bowel contents for a while. One day it would be too hard, then next very loose. I was going with the school of thought that their each and every meal need not be balanced, but rather over a week or so, it should all even out to be about 80% meat, 10%organ (half of which liver, the other half other organ) and 10% bone. (and if you want to add vegetables, it will cut down on something there in those percentages, so maybe 10-20% vegetables) However, since I was having trouble leveling things out by averaging, I took the advice from a person on a raw food forum I visit and that was to make each meal balanced. He does that with his larger breed dog and says it seems to be easier on the digestion. However, I know that loads of people feed with an averaging method. 

What I've been having to do with my little toy Poodles is cut a small bone to make it even smaller. They get fed once a day, in the late afternoon. Once a day is suppose to be better for their digestion as those hours of not having to work, the digestive system can prepare for the meal. (the way enzymes and digestive acids work apparently) The small chicken bones I give don't have much meat on them so I give them chunks of meat of various types. One day it might be chicken gizzards and hearts (also not considered organ meat) or meat from a thigh, pieces of pork, lamb, beef, duck, goat, venison, kangaroo when I can afford it... and other to make the bulk of their meal. (80% muscle meat) I also, a couple times a week give them duck and chicken feet. (just a toe or two...my dogs are teensy) But they always need some hunks of muscle meat, which varies by type. Some days I might have a little left over beef but have taken pork out of the freezer, so they might get two kinds of meat that day. They also are given 2 or 3 small chunks of raw, green tripe every day. (that stuff is amazingly healthy)

They get raw, fresh sardines or mackerel once or twice a week. And a squirt Icelandic sardine/anchovy oil on their food on the days they don't get fish for good omegas. 

They get raw eggs a few times a week, drizzled over their food or for a snack. If you feed shells and you get your eggs not from a farmer locally, they have mineral oil on them. Boil the shells first for 1/2 hour and then grind them up in a blender to make a nice powder. They should only get a tiny pinch or they'll get constipated. It replaces calcium from bones. It's what I feed my Chihuahua, as he doesn't chew bones. I also put a bone through my Vita Mix and found out I don't need a meat/bone grinder. lol. That machine is amazing. I was told this was capable so I tried it. Viola~!

Then they get 10% organ. (5% of which is liver, the other %5 some other organ meat) One day it's beef liver, the next it's anything from spleen, lung, kidney (lamb or beef) and anything else I can find. I just alternate organ meat daily. 

Those international or Asian markets are really cool places to shop. They have all kinds of weird meats and organs. Also I use an online source (can't find raw green tripe easily otherwise) called Hare Today, Gone Tomorrow. I personally prefer non-ground things so this place has hunks of it which has some spleen attached, which is great. I like the dogs to have to work harder and chew their food as they would with prey...to strengthen their jaws and the tripe especially is a little rough and makes friction I think against their teeth. I think it satisfies their chewing needs better. The other reason I prefer hunks of meat is it is probably less likely to have certain pathogens than ground. Still, of course, good cleaning habits are a must. 

I do not think dogs need vegetables after what I've read about their inability to metabolize them, but since my dogs aren't getting fur or feathers in their diet (something that would be more natural) I fear they might be missing some fiber. So I do give a tsp or so of a vegetable mix that I lightly steam and pulverize in my Vita Mix machine. It must be broken down or there's no hope of them extracting any vitamins or minerals. (but they get the vitamins and minerals they need from meat, organ and bone anyhow) I might steam up something like carrots, broccoli, spinach, celery, some yam, blueberries, apple, just as an example. I'll put that water from steaming along with the veggies into my Vita Mix and let 'er rip. Then freeze tiny amounts...just enough for a couple days worth. You can use an ice cube tray or just small containers is what I'm doing. A lot of raw feeders don't mess with vegetables. You can read that link and see why. 

Anyhow, after you go through your testing period where you're trying one protein at a time for a week or two, then trying another...and you finally get to where you can add organ meat, you'll eventually get where you can give all kinds of variety of meats and bones. Very important. What one doesn't have in the way of nutrients, another will. 

I recommend joining a raw feeding forum as well. I have used a prey model raw, although I am feeding a teensy bit of vegetables. There are some very knowledgeable and experienced people there. There are here too, but just lots more there since it's a forum dedicated to raw feeding. Good luck. I'm glad you are seeing some results already. That's just awesome! I have seen big, positive differences too since feeding raw, especially with my 14 year old Chihuahua mix. Staggering benefits with him. Good luck! Happy feeding.:hungry:


----------



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Oh! Also, don't feed raw salmon from the Pacific northwest. It can contain a very lethal parasite that isn't killed by freezing I don't think. (like some parasites are) And not too much fish at all, if it's a species that contains thiaminase, which a lot of fish are. That is an enzyme that binds with vitamin B1 and makes it useless. So, just once or twice a week only but it has excellent benefits. Sardines are good (fresh) because they have a very short life span and don't have time to collect a lot of junk in the water, like toxins. I believe Mackerel has a long life span so I don't know why I'm feeding that sometimes.:dontknow: Maybe I should stick with sardines.:alberteinstein:


----------

