# Complete disaster !



## zooeysmom

Is Clomicalm like an SSRI antidepressant? If he's really going to struggle with all the stress going on, I would want him on something long term like that to keep him as even as possible. I wouldn't worry about him being on it forever--some dogs (and some people) need to be on medication for life to lead a normal, healthy life.


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## Mfmst

I think a crumble of an anti-anxiety medication daily would be a kindness for poor Merlin. He needs the real deal if ever a dog did


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## Dechi

Mfmst said:


> I think a crumble of an anti-anxiety medication daily would be a kindness for poor Merlin. He needs the real deal if ever a dog did


Sadly I think you are both right.


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## lisasgirl

If it were thyroid medication he needed every day, then it wouldn't be a shame for him to take it, right? It seems like for Merlin, elevated anxiety is just a part of him in the way that a hypoactive thyroid or too little insulin production is in some dogs. 

You can always wean him off of it if he seems like he's really doing well after the change. But I would get him on it now so that he has all the tools available to deal with it.


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## oshagcj914

It's not a shame to take medication that's needed someone to be in good health, physically or mentally. It sounds like he will really need it, and there's nothing wrong with that. Use all the tools at your disposal to make this as easy for him as it can be.


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## Dechi

I will do what is necessary. This is the first time it's so bad. The first time I am away for so long and he's left alone at home.

So we all need to adjust.


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## Skylar

I don't know the full story about Merlin but he does sound like a challenging puppy that would be helped by the medication - not just on days when it's obvious, but on a day to day basis. And you do need to prepare for those changes that will happen when you go back to work full time or are not in the house with him constantly. If this medication will help him, I think you should use it. You can wean him off later when things are stable.


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## Asta's Mom

Merlin may need his medication on a daily basis (I know I need mine :_)) It is not so bad if he needs the medication for life - if it were another condition, like others have said, you would probably not think twice. The most important thing is to get him stable as you have mentioned the upcoming changes in your routines you will want him to be settled. Good luck and you have my prayers.


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## lily cd re

You have worked to give Merlin a great life, and clearly you have brought him a very long way from where he started. I agree with others who have posted here about continuing his medication. In my family we have a loved one who has struggled with crushing anxiety. Very careful following of a medication regimen saved not only this person, but the well being of that part of the family. Also in your own experience you have dealt with disability. I know you wouldn't stop a treatment that worked for you, so don't stop a treatment that greatly improves Merlin's life either.


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## Dechi

lily cd re said:


> You have worked to give Merlin a great life, and clearly you have brought him a very long way from where he started. I agree with others who have posted here about continuing his medication. In my family we have a loved one who has struggled with crushing anxiety. Very careful following of a medication regimen saved not only this person, but the well being of that part of the family. Also in your own experience you have dealt with disability. I know you wouldn't stop a treatment that worked for you, so don't stop a treatment that greatly improves Merlin's life either.


You're right, I wouldn't stop my medication without knowing I absolutely don't need it. But I do stop it once in a while to see if I really need it anymore. Just like I am doing right now for my own meds.

So Merlin has been off his meds for a long time. I am not stopping it, it was stopped a long time ago. I have thought about it and will be taking him to the vet when I come back to find the right meds. And he will be back on it.

Right now my priority will be to reassure him so he can stop pissing in the house everywhere... Poor daughter is studying for her finals, doing her final assignments for law school and had to get up to a stinky mess every morning and come back to another stinky mess every afternoon ! She sure is happy that I am coming back today ! ;-)


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## Dechi

I came back last night. Merlin was outside doing his business and when he heard my card, slipped under the fence, came around in the front and entered the house.

He was so excited to see me, poor thing. I had never seen him so happy. I made sure to cuddle for a few minutes before I did my things. I waited about 30 minutes before feeding him or he would have thrown up from being so excited.

He hadn't made a mess that day. He was crated though, but still, he could have peed in his crate. This morning there wasn't any mess either. I hope we're back to business now that the routine is back.

I will still take him to the vet and get some medication for him.


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## Dechi

We went to the vet today. The vet gave Merlin a prescription of dog prozac. We're on a 3 months trial and they will call me in 3 weeks to know how he's doing. It should take about 2-3 weeks to start working. The first week he might be sleeping more. Right now he is kind of knock out, he's sleeping on my lap.

The vet told me not so long ago, dogs like Merlin were euthanized. Vets didn't have much they could do with mental illness in dogs. That made me sad. ;-(

I took him to the park when we came back, so he could get a little exercise and be more relaxed. Then we went to the pharmacy (human) and he waited for me in the car while I went to get his prescription.

Fingers crossed, wish me luck !


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## Muggles

Hoping for the best for you and poor little Merlin!


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## twyla

I do wish you luck, I have 11 year old Gracie the pom/chi mix who has been on anti anxiety meds for year now it has been a journey for her and I. Prozac wasn't enough for her, she easily gets over stimulated and it turns into misdirected aggression, so my vet also put her on Trazodone. Finally there is peace, she is more relaxed and happy than she has ever been in her whole life.


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## zooeysmom

Crossing my fingers for Merlin and you!! He is so lucky to have such a dedicated mom :love2:


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## Dechi

twyla said:


> I do wish you luck, I have 11 year old Gracie the pom/chi mix who has been on anti anxiety meds for year now it has been a journey for her and I. Prozac wasn't enough for her, she easily gets over stimulated and it turns into misdirected aggression, so my vet also put her on Trazodone. Finally there is peace, she is more relaxed and happy than she has ever been in her whole life.


Thanks for the tip, Twila ! I didn't know you had a dog with high anxiety. I will keep that in mind for the Trazodone. I have some at home for myself but don't use it (I would get a prescription first, of course).

Can you tell me what Gracie's behavior was, as far as anxiety ? Merlin is a fear biter, is that what you mean by misdirected aggression ? What is her dosage for the prozac and Trazodone and are both taken once a day at the same time ?


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## Skylar

I hope it works too - seems to make a lot of sense - calm him down, reduce his anxiety.


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## twyla

*loooong post*



Dechi said:


> Thanks for the tip, Twila ! I didn't know you had a dog with high anxiety. I will keep that in mind for the Trazodone. I have some at home for myself but don't use it (I would get a prescription first, of course).
> 
> Can you tell me what Gracie's behavior was, as far as anxiety ? Merlin is a fear biter, is that what you mean by misdirected aggression ? What is her dosage for the prozac and Trazodone and are both taken once a day at the same time ?


Gracie is high strung and nervous. She was very barky, a lip licker, too much noise, physical contact can set her off, it over loads her and she redirects this inappropriately at whoever is closest usually as aggression. 

This can happen during play with other dogs, or if on a walk and the other dogs get excited (bouncey) when they see a neighbor.

Basically she attacks the poodles when she is in this state, sometimes people. 

The pups learned to read her moods, after being attacked by Gracie.

The cat won't take her nonsense and is twice her size. 

But my elderly tpoo Flower who's mostly deaf and can't see well that misses those subtle cues indicating "I am agitated" has borne the brunt of Gracie's aggression, with some serious bites, her lip was punctured, both ear leathers and her nose. 

Gracie has nipped two of my neighbors.

She was food aggressive with the dogs (she guarded food)

she was toy aggressive with the dogs (she guarded her toys)

all anxiety driven

Remember all of this was pre-meds

I have tried rehoming her 

I called many rescues to see if they would take her, but they don't want aggressive dogs or dogs that have bitten. I had one rescue call me and tell my best option might be to euthanize her.


So let's go back over a year, this is when I took ownership of her because she belonged to my mom who died, mind you I had lived with Gracie and mom for 8 years, but she my mom's whole world and mom was hers. She was better for my mom. Honestly I thought Grace would curl up and die after mom but she didn't.

Present day

We live "Nothing in Life is Free" training, routine is critical 

Currently she takes 5mg of Prozac, max dose for her 7.5lb weight, and she takes 3.5mg of Trazodone twice a day meds need to be given with meals so yes the same time. Gracie also has atopic allergies so she also takes Apoquel, she gets bathed weekly as well to manage that.

So progress 

Her food dish is gated off in the kitchen still but 

We now can have the other dogs play with toys around her and with her

We can now do tricks for treats with the other dogs

When something happens like a cat accidently jumping up and startling Gracie, she growls to voice her displeasure but a simple uhuh chills her out.

It's been a long hard road but worth it

I thought I had a lead on a new home for Gracie recently, because truthfully she'd be happy as an only dog but it didn't work out. 

All I can do is keep trying to help her be happy in her own skin.

Dechi, I think meds will help Merlin it'll just take time.


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## twyla

Dechi I hope I answered your questions, Prozac is once a day btw.


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## Dechi

twyla said:


> Dechi I hope I answered your questions, Prozac is once a day btw.



Yes, you have, thank you so much Twyla ! I am sorry I never read any of your posts about Gracie. If there are any, can you give me the links, I would love to read her story !

Merlin is different than her, he is less aggressive. But he is the most nervous/fearful dog I have ever seen, and I have seen a lot of dogs and a lot of videos... He is fearful of any new situation, any new or misplaced object, any sudden noise, even soft, the tv, people, if you look at him (even me), if you walk near him, ect. There no end to his fears. Also, if he feels threatened for any reason (someone he doesn't know touching him, someone he knows and loves being impatient, even without showing it...) he will bite. He has bitten at least 3 people in the past 1 1/2 year, including me. When you change his routine, even just a little bit, for example if I don't give him the same lap time, he will pee out of anxiety, either in his crate or in the house if left alone.

There is no way I can rehome him, nobody in their right mind would want him. I don't even know how I could put him in doggy care, if I went away. One day he will have to go though, but we'll manage when we get there...

But right now I am very encouraged. Tonight he was already more relaxed. i know it takes 3 weeks but I suppose he was a bit sleepy and less reactive because of the side effects, which will fade away. 

First, when I approached him while he was in his doggy bed, in the living room, he didn't look left and right and didn't try to get up to run away from me. He stayed sitting in his bed. That's a first !

Then, when it was time to go to bed, he went in his crate, passing right in front of me, without running. Just a fast pace. He has never walked past me before. He is scared, so he stays behind me and waits until I call him, then slowly and cowardly comes, looking fearfully left and right continuously. But not tonight !

Now I try not to be too hopeful because it can't be the meds working so soon. So I tell myself it's the side effects, so I won't be too disappointed if it wears off.


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## Caddy

Dechi I'm so hopeful that this helps both you and Merlin, along with the rest of your family. Fingers crossed, and please keep us updated.


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## Asta's Mom

Prayers for Merlin that the medication helps. I thought of you all today when I was taking my meds for bipolar disorder.


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## Dechi

Asta's Mom said:


> Prayers for Merlin that the medication helps. I thought of you all today when I was taking my meds for bipolar disorder.


Thanks Asta's mom ! I know how important meds are when you have certain conditions. I hope your meds are making that difference for you and that you are okay. They can be a life saver, litterally. The first molecule Merlin was on, Clomicalm, wasn't making a big difference. i am hoping this one will.


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## Dechi

Tonight he is not bothered by his new meds, no noticeable side effects. Now we just have to wait a few weeks. I'll update.


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## lily cd re

I am hoping for a good improvement for Merlin's sake and yours.


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## MollyMuiMa

I too am hoping for the best for you and Merlin! It can't be very good for either of you to live like that............wishing you the best outcome for sure!


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## Dechi

So far, no change in behavior, but it's only been 4-5 days, and we have a lot of room for a higher dose.


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## Asta's Mom

Sometimes I am sure it is the same with animals as it is with us - it takes awhile to get the right dosage established. I had to go with a higher dosage on my own medication and luckily it works wonders. When I am on the right dose I feel (and act) normally. Without medication I am absolutely NUTS. Please keep us posted on how Merlin does. Continued prauers and good thoughts.


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## Dechi

Day 6 of his new medication (1,3 ml of prozac). Today he is more fearful than he usually is. I've read it can happen, so I am not surprised or worried. He wouldn't get off the couch by himself, he was too scared of the tv. Also in general,he is more nervous.

To be continued.


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## Dechi

Day 8. Even more fearful. I hope it stops soon. He is not paying anymore, he doesn't do much other than stay in his bed and go around the kitchen table everytime someone moves.

It's sad to see. I won't hesitate to stop this if it doesn't get better after the third or fourth week.


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## twyla

Take care abruptly stopping Prozac there can be severe side effects including seizures
Prozac For Dogs | Dose My Pet

Discuss your concerns with your vet


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## Mfmst

That's why I think Merlin needs a crumble of doggie tranquilizer. His 'head meds" will take weeks to kick in and I'm not sure he was ever chill when they did. Poor guy!


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## lily cd re

Yes, please be very careful about withdrawing psychotropic medications without supervision from the vet! 
Je suis désolé de c'est si difficile mon ami.


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## Dechi

I called the vet today. It's breaking my heart. He is more fearful than ever. I made a fire last night and tonight and he keeps looking at it, lipping his lips and wanting to flee. He doesn't play anymore. He ate tonight, skipped last night.

He basically doesn't do much all day except stay in his bed or on our lap. He still urinates in the house or in his crate.

His vet wasn't working and I talked to a tech. The vet will call me next week. Basically I can stop or wait until the 3 week mark. I don't know what to do. 

Merci Lili, c'est gentil !


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## Asta's Mom

I wish I could help - my heart aches for you guys.


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## twyla

*long post*

I can understand your frustration, I would love to say that staying on these meds will eventally work, the fearfulness and anxiety is listed as side effects of Prozac, but Dechi, I am going to suggest reading and trying this 

Getting in TTouch with Your Dog Book - $16.95 - Tellington TTouch Training

This is the Tellington Touch, I have used this with feral cats and on my extremely fearful mini poodle Fannie ages ago. It's holistic massage therapy, as with anything it takes time but it helps you connect with the animal you are working with. With my feral cat Mr. Oliver Toes he was 5~6 years old when I caught him in a hav-a-hart trap outside, poor boy was ill apparently he had heartworm, at some point and it left him with a heart murmur and asthma for which he needed medicine for. I had a couple of choices, euthanisize him or find a way to help him. 

It took six months of dedicated work on my part using the Tellington Touch and reading and understanding the feline body language, I read a lovely, helpful book called "the Silent Meow" by Desmond Morris. I had to be exteremely calm and in the moment but Ollie became my best buddy.

As for Fannie the mini poodle, she was 8 years old when I got her, terrified of everything from cars to sign posts to garbage bags. Although she didn't bite, she would either bolt away, a regular houdini slipping out harnesses outside when in a panic or poop and pee when scared. Worse moment was in one of her panicked flights she knocked a glass vase off a table and sliced through paw pad almost the bone. 

It took a long time with Fannie 18 months to roughly two years of work with her. I didn't use medication but I used T-Touch, repeative exposure to scary objects, and basic obedience it was slow hard work. I had to be extremely patient and calm but it did work. Also understanding the dog's mind went back to my favorite author Desmond Morris.
https://www.amazon.com/Dog-Watching-Desmond-Morris/dp/B000H2KR3G/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1481877134&sr=8-6&keywords=desmond+morris+dog 

Nothing is terribly easy, I do wish I had tried meds with Fannie but calm steady persistence on my part won out. 

I have told you Gracie the pom/chi, I am on this new complicated journey with her. The holidays have been extremely hard for me, I miss my mom, I am tired, depressed and have been sick for last two weeks, which has set off some amped up growling sessions between Gracie and Walter the cat, and at least once she went after Flower knocking her over. I managed to call her off, basically told her to knock it off and yippee she did, point being is that Gracie is picking up my negative emotions even though the meds are working to a point. 

I would love to say what I am suggesting will work for you, it worked on 5 out of 6 feral cats that I've had, number 6, 12+ year old feral Vivien never did come around but learned to tolerate me.

All you can do is try and keep trying, just try not to get too frustrated I know that isn't as easy as said.

Good Luck


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## Dechi

@Twila, thanks !

The thing is I am trying to work on my own anxiety issues, currently in intensive therapy. That's why it is extremely hard for me to help Merlin without meds. He feels my emotions so much and his anxiety feeds mine too. The more anxious he is, the more anxious I am. It 's a vicious circle, unfortunately. I wish I was the cool, calm type, but this is not me. I am already struggling with a lot of personal issues right now and Merlin is unfortunately another problem on top of the pile. When it rains, it pours, as they say...

I am waiting a few more days and if he still is the same, I will gradually stop the meds.


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## twyla

Dechi, Oh how I do understand and I think with or with without meds I think touch therapy may help you both connect.


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## CharismaticMillie

zooeysmom said:


> Is Clomicalm like an SSRI antidepressant? If he's really going to struggle with all the stress going on, I would want him on something long term like that to keep him as even as possible. I wouldn't worry about him being on it forever--some dogs (and some people) need to be on medication for life to lead a normal, healthy life.


Clomicalm is a tricyclic.


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## Dechi

Day 14 tomorrow. He is still more fearful than before, but maybe a little less than when we started the Prozac. He eats a bit less than before too, but he hasn't lost more than maybe 1/3 of a pound. He must be still close to 6 pounds, which is good. He has a little cushion before.

He seems a little bit more relaxed when I pick him up, but I might just be imagining things...

Still one whole week before the 3 weeks mark.


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## lily cd re

Is there someone who doesn't see him everyday who can tell you how they think he is doing? My reasoning is that you and your daughter are looking at him so closely so often that you may not notice something that changed gradually, whereas someone who hasn't seen him in a week will see an obvious change that is an important one. That kind of thing happens with my beginner class students. They will come in for class and tell me that even though they have been practicing they don't see any changes, but when I ask them to show me what is happening there are obvious differences.

You and Merlin are high on my list of good wish recipients.


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## Dechi

lily cd re said:


> Is there someone who doesn't see him everyday who can tell you how they think he is doing? My reasoning is that you and your daughter are looking at him so closely so often that you may not notice something that changed gradually, whereas someone who hasn't seen him in a week will see an obvious change that is an important one. That kind of thing happens with my beginner class students. They will come in for class and tell me that even though they have been practicing they don't see any changes, but when I ask them to show me what is happening there are obvious differences.
> 
> You and Merlin are high on my list of good wish recipients.


Good point ! My son is coming home tomorrow, I will ask him what he thinks.

Thank you for your good wishes Catherine !


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## lily cd re

I hope your son sees something hopeful! I am looking forward to the update.


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## Muggles

I am very hopeful that your son will see an improvement. Fingers crossed for you and poor little Merlin.


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## Dechi

The vet called tonight and I explained the side effects he was having, ie being more fearful and losing his appetite. She said these were normal and we could hope that they would stop with time. She doesn't want him to lose too much weight, though. He was 6.6 pounds when I when to the vet, and I estimate he must be close to 5.9 or 6 pounds now. He had a bit of a cushion on, and his good weight should be about 6 pounds, so it's not so bad. But she doesn't want him to lose more than 1/2 pound.

She told me she put him right away at the max dose (probably because she thinks he has a severe mental illness) so we could go as low as 0.65 mL (his initial dose was 1.3 mL). She told me to bring the dose down to 1.0mL to see if his appetite would come back, which I did tonight since he hadn't had his dose yet. And if it's still not better, go down to 0.8 in about a week. I said I would call them back after Christmas.

So tonight he wouldn't eat. 1 1/2 hour later I offered him his meal again in a closed room, where he used to eat at first because he was too scared to eat in an open space. He ate about 3/4 of it and I convinced him to eat the rest from my hand, which is good. He got a treat after also.

Right now he is watching 24 (Kiefer Sutherland) with me on Netflix. He is tired, so half sleeping. He never fully sleeps, I don't know how he stays alive...


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## Dechi

Today is day 21. I don't know if it's the decrease to 1.0 mL or just time passing, but this morning he is very lively, came to see me with a wagging tail when I got up and seems in a general good mood.

We'll see how it goes for the next few days.


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## lily cd re

Dechi said:


> Today is day 21. I don't know if it's the decrease to 1.0 mL or just time passing, but this morning he is very lively, came to see me with a wagging tail when I got up and seems in a general good mood.
> 
> We'll see how it goes for the next few days.


Seeing this made my heart sing! I hope it is a real turn of the corner for both of you.


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## zooeysmom

That's wonderful, Dechi! Hugs and kisses to you and Merlin.


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## Mfmst

I am so relieved that the medication seems to be kicking in. I wish you both a happy and relaxed Christmas!


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## twyla

I am glad Merlin is improving


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## Muggles

Fabulous news!


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## Dechi

Thank you. He is starting to get back to what he was before the meds, but there is no improvement yet. :-(


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## lily cd re

Dechi said:


> Thank you. He is starting to get back to what he was before the meds, but there is no improvement yet. :-(


I understand what you are seeing and your concerns. I think we are all happy to see that things have hit a plateau and hope that this is the foundation for improving. I can't imagine how hard this is.


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## Dechi

Today I decreased the dose to 0.8 ml. He still wasn't eating and I had to handfeed him. Even warm chicken wouldn't cut it. I think he is afraif of the bowl. He went back to how he was when I first got him 1 1/2 year ago.

So tonight he ate all of his bowl. It took a really long time, he would stop eating every time I winked my eyes... At least he ate.

Now he is relaxing on the sofa with me and Tamara.

This sure is taking a long time, but apparently it can take two months to work, so I can't stop now, unless he loses too much weight, as the vet said.


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## Asta's Mom

Dechi, hang in there. I know how rough this must be for you. Keeping fingers crossed and prayers in my heart. Hugs.


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## lily cd re

Hang tough on this Dechi. Merlin needs you to be patient and persistent.


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## Dechi

He's not eating again today. I tried twice. He eats once a day so he must be hungry.

A few more days and I give up.


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## Mfmst

Hang in there! We are all sending positive thoughts and prayers that he adjusts and starts to eats. I recall he was nearly normal on your outside walks or outdoors. Maybe some time in the fresh air will improve his appetite. Hugs to you!


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## Dechi

Mfmst said:


> Hang in there! We are all sending positive thoughts and prayers that he adjusts and starts to eats. I recall he was nearly normal on your outside walks or outdoors. Maybe some time in the fresh air will improve his appetite. Hugs to you!


Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, outside is the on'y place he is semi-normal, when we go for a walk. Unfortunately it is way too cold right now to take him outside. He doesn't want to go and I understand. Walks won't be possible before spring, sometime in April.


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## twyla

All I can say is hang in there, this is Gracie who is very squirmy, she cannot normal lay still with me this nice moment lasted 5 minutes tonight. It's been a long hard road to get to this point, she is finally playing with the other dogs without aggressive melt downs.

It all takes time, just work with your vet and discuss all your concerns.


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## Dechi

Thanks Twila.

I know it takes time, but he's been with us for 18 months now and nothing has changed much. It wouldn't be so bad if he could at least tolerate being alone during the day. But he can't. For a few hours he is perfect, but not for a whole day's work. His life is filled with anxiety and fear, and not much joy. The only thing that gives him peace is when he is on our lap. 

I have to go back to work, I need the money. And this situation is not helping my anxiety at all. 

I wonder if he wouldn't be better off in another home. Problem is it would have to be someone who stays home all day and doesn't watch tv... And can keep a straight routine, always. And can deal with his strange ways. And is very calm.

And my daughter got attached to him. She would probably take him, and he likes her, but she is going to be a lawyer and she will be gone all day too.

This seems hopeless. :-(


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## Dechi

He ate yesterday. I put him in a closed room by himself. He hadn't eaten the day before. This morning he played for about 30 seconds, the first time since being on Pozac, more than three weeks ago.


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## Dechi

This is my journal of his progress, so another update.

Tonight we went to my brother's for our holiday tradition. I made sure I fed the dogs before leaving, even if earlier than normal, and gave Merlin his meds. And I sent them both outside to do their business. Twice. Once before eating, and once more thirty minutes after eating.

I put the belly band on Merlin and off we went. We left at almost four and came back at 1030 or so. So they were left alone a little more than six hours. It's not the first time.

When we came in he had removed his belly band and peed a large amount under the Christmas tree (again). 

It's almost been a month now and I am not impressed with this Prozac at all...


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## Dechi

He's been eating in a separate room for three days now.


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## Muggles

I'm so sorry it isn't showing any signs of helping yet, Dechi. I suppose at least he's eating though, that's something!


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## zooeysmom

I can imagine how frustrated you must be. You are doing everything you possibly can for Merlin. At least he's eaten for the past few days, but I'm sorry the Prozac isn't giving him the results we are hoping for


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## Dechi

Thanks Muggles and Zooeysmom !

Yes, I am very frustrated, and he feels it. So I have backed off a bit from him. The fact that we can't go outside because of the icy rain, the cold and snow storm, and that he doesn't play leaves little to do for us to relieve our anxiety.

Fortunately, my daughter is off from university for the holidays and she has more time. She loves him very much and she is more " fresh " than me and has more patience with him. She started teaching him " high five " and he took to it very rapidly and she was so proud of him ! I mean this dog is smart, it's just that his mind is messed up. So I told her to teach him more if she felt like it, because it's good for his self confidence. I'll try to make a video of it. He's cute! His motion is clearly different than " shake hands ", which is what my daughter wanted.


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## oshagcj914

Give him a little more time, and if you don't see any improvement, there are other meds to try. I have a friend with a Great Dane who went through a couple medications before she found the right one that worked for her dog, and another friend with a pittie who is on a combination of two different medications that works for him (Xanax and something else). Just because this isn't working yet doesn't mean it won't or that something else won't work for him.


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## Mfmst

Hugs from Houston, Dechi! Is there anyway you can call the behaviorist you consulted and give an update on his meds, symptoms and get some suggestions?


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## Dechi

Mfmst said:


> Hugs from Houston, Dechi! Is there anyway you can call the behaviorist you consulted and give an update on his meds, symptoms and get some suggestions?


Yes, that is an option. I might write them an email and see what they suggest. But before doing that, I will try his old meds, Clomicalm, for a while and take it from there. Clomicalm might have worked but I didn't give it a try long enough. The problem is I have trouble managing this med twice a day. The pills are very hard to cut to the right size and it has to be given twice a day, which on top of my own medication I find a hassle. So I am not diligent enough with it, which is why I was looking for a once a day medication.


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## lily cd re

A family member of mine needed to take a 2X daily psychiatric med. When it was being taken 2X over waking hours she had problems every morning, but when I suggested making sure she took it every 12 hours she go much better benefit from it. For some of these meds timing really matters so that there aren't periods of time where there is a subtherapeutic amount of the drug in circulation. 1X daily at exactly the same time is easier, but if you end up with a 2X daily med make sure you give it as close to every 12 hours as possible.

Wishing you the best.


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## Mfmst

Dechi, I would email them especially since you are contemplating a switch of medications. Ask about a tranquilizer, too. Positive thoughts northward.


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## Dechi

Mfmst said:


> Dechi, I would email them especially since you are contemplating a switch of medications. Ask about a tranquilizer, too. Positive thoughts northward.


I am working with a different vet now. My contract with them was over, they only gave 3 months follow-up and that was done a long time ago. I didn't like their behavioral approach either, what they showed me didn't work. I will ask for advice but I am afraid they are going to want to charge me the full amount again. Not that I don't want to pay, but since it didn't work, I am not too keen about it.


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## Mfmst

Then I wouldn't bother with them again.


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## Dechi

Didn't eat at all tonight. No kibbles, no treats.


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## Dechi

I lowered his dose to 0,6ml last night, which is the lower limit for his weight. He is still not eating well and regularly, so we'll see if this helps. Since I haven't seen any improvement yet on this drug, I am being patient a little more at this dose and then I will start tapering off over a period of a few weeks.

Then I will call the vet and ask for another drug to try.


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## Skylar

this is heartbreaking and frustrating to read - wish there was an easy answer to what is clearly a difficult problem.


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## Dechi

Skylar said:


> this is heartbreaking and frustrating to read - wish there was an easy answer to what is clearly a difficult problem.


Thank you. Sometimes I think Merlin is closer to being autistic than just having generalized anxiety disorder. He is completely dependent on routine and does not function at all outside of it. All the other fearful dogs I have seen had some areas where they were comfortable. They are not fearful 24/7. But Merlin is. Except when outside, which we can't go to in the harsh winter.

Unfortunately vets aren't trained in mental health for dogs. They are just starting to treat anxiety.

We'll see what happens. There isn't much more I can do right now than try and get some meds that work.


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## lily cd re

I totally get what you mean about thinking about autism Dechi.

Although I haven't read her book, to my simplified understanding (based on conversation with my vet) Temple Grandin has made the case that many dogs are in some ways like autistic people. My vet's take in this very basic discussion we had (about Peeves and some of his issues) is that many dogs are very intelligent and aware, plus sensitive about things in their environments, yet unable to express those sensitivities and concerns in ways that we ("normal" people) can understand (with words). I can see this with Peeves to some extent. He is very noise sensitive (thunder, fireworks, etc) bother him. His reactions once the noise is happening are quite clear, but I suspect there are subtle signs he shows us before a thunder storm arrives that we may not be too good at reading. I feel like if I read those signs better and could give him his rescue remedy sooner it would help him more. We did a s%$t job Saturday night not thinking ahead about fireworks in our neighborhood and he had a miserable observance of the turning of the date (and year) as a result.


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## Dechi

Ahhhh, poor Peeves ! Many dogs hate those fireworks. People, even. Personnally I don't care for them much, I am not onsight, but in my bed trying to sleep and they are loud !


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## Poodlebeguiled

I'm so very sorry and sad that this little dog suffers so, is tormented and tortured most every moment of his life by fear. I wouldn't keep a dog going indefinitely if he were mine just as I wouldn't keep an old dog that was suffering some horrendous, physical illness going. 

I guess only you can know and only you can really judge if the terror he lives with out-weighs the joys he has. Yes, there's always hope but how long do you try, how many meds, how many vets do you try? How long must he suffer? 

Or am I misreading this and he's not as bad off as I'm interpreting from my reading? You've done wonders with him, sure enough. But it's been a long time and how is his quality of life really? I know you love him and you've put _so_ much into him. I just hope he gets enough happiness out of his day to day life that it outweighs his sadness and fear. I'm so sorry you have to live with this too. It must be so very difficult and all mixed in with your love and wishes for him. Maybe I'm way off base and probably hurt and insulted you. But I had to get what was on my mind off my chest. I apologize if it was too honest, blunt or off base.


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## Dechi

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I'm so very sorry and sad that this little dog suffers so, is tormented and tortured most every moment of his life by fear. I wouldn't keep a dog going indefinitely if he were mine just as I wouldn't keep an old dog that was suffering some horrendous, physical illness going.
> 
> I guess only you can know and only you can really judge if the terror he lives with out-weighs the joys he has. Yes, there's always hope but how long do you try, how many meds, how many vets do you try? How long must he suffer?
> 
> Or am I misreading this and he's not as bad off as I'm interpreting from my reading? You've done wonders with him, sure enough. But it's been a long time and how is his quality of life really? I know you love him and you've put _so_ much into him. I just hope he gets enough happiness out of his day to day life that it outweighs his sadness and fear. I'm so sorry you have to live with this too. It must be so very difficult and all mixed in with your love and wishes for him. Maybe I'm way off base and probably hurt and insulted you. But I had to get what was on my mind off my chest. I apologize if it was too honest, blunt or off base.


Don't worry, I am hard to insult when things are said in a respectful matter. To be honest I think about putting him down sometimes. For one thing it would destroy me, and also my daughter. She would never forgive me. I will try and explain what his day is like and maybe it will reassure you, or even comfort you more that he suffers too much, I don't know.

Maybe I am just making it sound worse than it is. He gets up between 0800-0900 am. I take off his belly band. He is anxious and runs away as soon as I am done. But he is wagging his tail. He is happy to see me. I let him outside and he does his business and comes back in, it's cold. Then I can coax him to come to me, and he will hesitantly come, and mostly stay behind my back, come around, go back behind, ect. He is fearful but he is happy that I am pettting him.

Then he will go in his doggy bed in the living room, with Tamara. He will mostly stay there pretty much all day, except for when he goes outside. Unless I call him for some reason, he will come to me, fearful. He doesn't follow me much in the house. If He is in the kitchen for some reason, he stays near the kitchen table so he can hide behind it. If I walk near him, he will go hide by walking around the table. If I look at him, he will go around the table again. He doesn't walk a straight line, he walks so he never has anyone near, behind or in front of him. And if someone comes near him, even me, he will sit and be prepared to flight. 

If he could, he would spend the whole day on our lap. He comes near us and crouches down to be picked up, his back touching our leg. But I don't allow that, or he will be miserable when I go back to work and he has to stay alone. So he has his time with my daugter during the day, and with me in the evening.

He never fully relaxes. Never sleeps during the day. As soon as he hears a noise, or senses a movement, his eyes open. Always on the look out. Even when on our lap. I have never seen him sleep.

He is scared of the tv, image and sound. He never plays when the tv is on. He doesn't know what to do with himself when the tv is on, I have to order him to go lie down in his bed, and he does. Or else he would just fearfully pace and be unsettled.

He plays with Tamara for a few minutes a day (less now with the meds) and he used to play with his toys for a few minutes as well (not now with the meds).

What else ? He has to eat in a closed room. Was ok in the open room before the meds, but we have to stop walking, stip making noise, almost stop breathing or he won't eat. At least in the closed room we can move.

He has separation/routine anxiety and he will urinate every time we don't obey the routine perfectly. You can't change anything or if you do, there will have to be an adaptation period of many weeks/months even of urinating in the house. He wears belly bands but he takes them off, so they're useless.

Oh, and he will bite if scared. Me, or anyone, it doesn't matter, he loses it. If he feels the person being anxious, he will lose trust and bite to escape.

That's about it. I don't see how I could rehome this dog. I don't even know how I will find doggy care for him. Even my daughter, who knows him best, can't make him feel safe if I am not around. He gets so anxious he urinates day and night in the house.

I wish I only had him, then I would get a second dog and he could at least play more. Tamara is getting old (12) and sleeps most of the day. So he just sleeps like she does. But he is a young dog, he will be 3 in april. He should be having fun and playing a lot more !

I don't have the heart to put him down. I don't think I could live with myself. I am hoping things will get better. If you compare his life now, it is a whole lot better than what it was before. At least that part makes me happy.

In a way, I think he is a happy dog. It's just that he can't be happy on his own. He needs people's energy to feel the joy: if I talk to him, he will be wagging hsi tail the whole time. When I come home, he is always happy to see me. 

I don't know anymore. I just try to do my best, and it doesn't seem to be enough.


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## Poodlebeguiled

It does sound really bad and sad to me. Those little moments when he is happy or playful...he should be having a lot more. This is truly sad. I wonder if there's a anyone out there who could give you more insight. I wonder if it's possible that he is not really as miserable as you describe, but that there's something neurological going on that mimics what looks like fear. It's a stretch but I wonder if some university veterinary specialist could shed some light on his situation. I have worked with abused dogs, unsocialized dogs, but never to the extent you describe. It may be that he simply has to be managed, catered to, put in situations that he can handle the best and not expect to desensitize him like you normally would to the things that he fears. I guess you're already doing that. I truly hope some kind of Rx can be found that will help him. I know you've brought him a long way already and it is wonderful that your daughter is so good with him too. I like the part about how he loves sitting on laps. That's warming. I know how next to impossible it would be to put him down. I don't know what I'd do truth be told. But it just seems that he should be having more fun out of life. I _am_ sorry and I hope some more improvement will take place sooner rather than later.


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## Dechi

Thanks PB. What you're saying about him being worse than anything you've seen resonates with my own thinking. The vet says he has a mental illness, and I think she is right.

I don't do any desensitizing work right now. I stopped a long time ago. If the meds ever work, maybe.

As for special vets, I wouldn't know who to turn to. The best one in the area we have already seen, and quite frankly she did not help at all. She thought she did but her methods don't work because they are based on food as a reward, and he won't eat when anxious, even though he did when we were at that clinic, strangely.

There is this guy who has a tv show, he was recommended by my vet as number 2 best choice, but at the time I chose the vet. He is a trainer who does house calls. Maybe when I get a job I will make him come to my house and see what he has to say. By then the meds should be adjusted, if any is going to work.


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## Mfmst

I keep harping on a tranquilizer in addition to his anti-d's. Twyla's Gracie has stabilized on the combo. If ever a dog needed a Xanax/Transadone it would be Merlin. If he could relax for just a second, maybe he would eat. Bless him!


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## Dechi

Mfmst said:


> I keep harping on a tranquilizer in addition to his anti-d's. Twyla's Gracie has stabilized on the combo. If ever a dog needed a Xanax/Transadone it would be Merlin. If he could relax for just a second, maybe he would eat. Bless him!


I'll look into it. My understanding was that those drugs were given for a specific event only, because they are short action type. But I might be wrong.


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## Click-N-Treat

I can't imagine how hard this must be for both of you. I hope you see improvement soon.


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## marialydia

Dechi said:


> If he could, he would spend the whole day on our lap. He comes near us and crouches down to be picked up, his back touching our leg. But I don't allow that, or he will be miserable when I go back to work and he has to stay alone. So he has his time with my daugter during the day, and with me in the evening.


Thanks for sharing the day.

This phrase really hit me...it sounds like Dechi is trying to connect even though he's terrified. I just wonder if you would pick him up as much as you can (without disrupting your routine) if this will help to heal him? Then, when you do go back to work, he'll overall be calmer...I actually think that dog's memories carry them along. I'm convinced that Jupiter's memories gave him pleasure as he aged.

You've done so much for Dechi and even though he's not a happy-go-lucky dog by any stretch; it sounds like he does take great pleasure in being around you...provided that his requirements are met!


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## Dechi

marialydia said:


> Thanks for sharing the day.
> 
> This phrase really hit me...it sounds like Dechi is trying to connect even though he's terrified. I just wonder if you would pick him up as much as you can (without disrupting your routine) if this will help to heal him? Then, when you do go back to work, he'll overall be calmer...I actually think that dog's memories carry them along. I'm convinced that Jupiter's memories gave him pleasure as he aged.
> 
> You've done so much for Dechi and even though he's not a happy-go-lucky dog by any stretch; it sounds like he does take great pleasure in being around you...provided that his requirements are met!


Hum, I had never thought about it that way. Merlin spends at least 4-6 hours on our lap, per day. He is soooo dependent on me. He is always looking at me, even when my daughter picks him up. I don't want to get him worse in that aspect. I'll look into it, though, it is a very valid point.

On another note, my daughter when to her friend's house yesterday and they have a young doodle of 12 months. She left her bag on the floor and Oli the doodle took it in his mouth and ran with it. Last night I noticed Merlin was sniffing the bag a lot and told him to leave it. This morning again, so I went and looked at the bag and he had marked it ! So I guess if I ever have another dog with him around it would have to be a female... I guess that's what happens when you get an older dog who was raised with intact males and females in the same house. He was allowed to mark and saw those 4 males do it for 16 months, so I guess it's hard to get this out of him. This part is easy to manage, though.


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## Poodlebeguiled

I gotta warn you...(lol) having a female won't make you safe from marking. I've had multiple dogs of various combinations of genders for eons and they both mark over each other's pee. I've seen my females and males mark over each other's pee multiple times in one "sitting." hahaha. They take turns. Intact, neutered, neutered young, spayed...doesn't matter. They all can do it. In the house, they all need to learn that outside is where they can pee/mark to their heart's content and be reinforced for it. Not inside. That would mean tons of supervision, prevention, tons of reinforcement outside.


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## marialydia

Dechi, sorry, I meant Merlin of course, my brain is addled. What with Jupiter passing and the holidays, etc. etc....

I just read the whole thread through very carefully and would love to share some thoughts if you don't mind.

It does sound like he desperately wants to be with you, and his generalised terror gets the best of him. He is happy to see you in the morning, and very happy to sit with you. That he cringes when you call him must mean that in an earlier phase, some idiots called him to punish him. Maybe some other way of indicating you want him to be near? Hand signals? a soft sound?

I laughed when reading that he'd peed under the Christmas tree. That's good, no? Trees are where you pee. Come on, he was trying! (I wonder sometimes how dogs distinguish between inside and out, having had dogs that peed in large hotels (Jupiter again) and in airport terminals. But that's another discussion).

Sorry if this comes on too strong, but it sounds like his meds are changing fairly often. Always after a short while, he's glad to eat again...I do think it's fine to be on meds, permanently, when one (person, dog) needs them. It also amazed me that Jupiter did immensely better on tramadol PLUS carprofen, than on either individually. His quality of life his last three months was really very good. In other words, 1 plus 1 can be much better than 2!

Finally, Bonne année! Que 2017 soit meilleure que 2016, pour vous et pour la famille, y compris Merlin!


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## Dechi

marialydia said:


> Dechi, sorry, I meant Merlin of course, my brain is addled. What with Jupiter passing and the holidays, etc. etc....
> 
> I just read the whole thread through very carefully and would love to share some thoughts if you don't mind.
> 
> It does sound like he desperately wants to be with you, and his generalised terror gets the best of him. He is happy to see you in the morning, and very happy to sit with you. That he cringes when you call him must mean that in an earlier phase, some idiots called him to punish him. Maybe some other way of indicating you want him to be near? Hand signals? a soft sound?
> 
> I laughed when reading that he'd peed under the Christmas tree. That's good, no? Trees are where you pee. Come on, he was trying! (I wonder sometimes how dogs distinguish between inside and out, having had dogs that peed in large hotels (Jupiter again) and in airport terminals. But that's another discussion).
> 
> Sorry if this comes on too strong, but it sounds like his meds are changing fairly often. Always after a short while, he's glad to eat again...I do think it's fine to be on meds, permanently, when one (person, dog) needs them. It also amazed me that Jupiter did immensely better on tramadol PLUS carprofen, than on either individually. His quality of life his last three months was really very good. In other words, 1 plus 1 can be much better than 2!
> 
> Finally, Bonne année! Que 2017 soit meilleure que 2016, pour vous et pour la famille, y compris Merlin!


Thank you Marialydia ! Merci pour les voeux, et mes sympathies pour Jupiter :-(

Thank ypu for trying to help with Merlin. You are right that he is happy to be with me. When I call him, I tap my leg, always, and that's a signal he recognizes. I also think he might have been abused, sometimes. But the thing is that he is scared of everything. It's not only or a few things I might work on, it's anything in the house, really.

About his meds changing often, I am not sure if it's the case. He was on Clomicalm before, on and off while I was trying to find the right combination. He was on them for maybe 5-6 months, then I stopped because I didn't think it made a difference. He was off meds for another 6-8 months, until I realized in december, when I left him for 3 days, that he couldn't cope because of severe separation anxiety. Then I decided to try something else, which is the Prozac he has been on for the last 4 weeks. And he is still on it. I have been following the vet's advice on lowering the dosage, because he wasn't eating. So now he is on 0,6 ml per day, and he is eating again. I am continuing this medication for another 2-4 weeks before deciding with the vet what else we are going to try, if it's not working.

So in summary, in the 1 1/2 year he has been with me, he has tried 2 meds, in non-consecutive separate periods. You think this is too much ?


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## marialydia

When you put it that way, no I guess it's not too much. Let's hope that the right dose keeps him eating and allows him to learn to be calm(er). I do think that when I look back it seems you've made considerable progress, which since you are so close to the situation may not seem so. And some of what you describe (marking on the purse, peeing the Christmas tree) could happen, may have even happened! to some of the rest of us. It's just that when you put it all together, it gets overwhelming.


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## Poodlebeguiled

marialydia said:


> Dechi, sorry, I meant Merlin of course, my brain is addled. What with Jupiter passing and the holidays, etc. etc....
> 
> I just read the whole thread through very carefully and would love to share some thoughts if you don't mind.
> 
> It does sound like he desperately wants to be with you, and his generalised terror gets the best of him. He is happy to see you in the morning, and very happy to sit with you. That he cringes when you call him must mean that in an earlier phase, some idiots called him to punish him. Maybe some other way of indicating you want him to be near? Hand signals? a soft sound?
> 
> I laughed when reading that he'd peed under the Christmas tree. That's good, no? Trees are where you pee. Come on, he was trying! (I wonder sometimes how dogs distinguish between inside and out, having had dogs that peed in large hotels (Jupiter again) and in airport terminals. But that's another discussion).
> 
> Sorry if this comes on too strong, but it sounds like his meds are changing fairly often. Always after a short while, he's glad to eat again...I do think it's fine to be on meds, permanently, when one (person, dog) needs them. It also amazed me that Jupiter did immensely better on tramadol PLUS carprofen, than on either individually. His quality of life his last three months was really very good. In other words, 1 plus 1 can be much better than 2!
> 
> Finally, Bonne année! Que 2017 soit meilleure que 2016, pour vous et pour la famille, y compris Merlin!



:adore::adore::adore: Great post.

Some very good insight into his behavior. I once knew some idiots who called their little beagle to come, then punished him because he didn't come before or for some other infraction. it was disgusting. He always looked like he wanted to come visit, would wag, but crouch and never could quite make it all the way to the person who wanted to be friendly. It was pathetic. 

And you're so right. Sometimes we humans think a dog should understand something because we do and they just aren't that smart. A tree _is_ the right place to pee. (I'm a poet) Who knows just what every dog is able to generalize. Inside...outside...it's not always plain. 

So I agree...switch cues when you notice fearfulness or hesitation with the cues you're using...like the calling him to come. When he comes on his own to sit on your lap, insert a new cue. It can be both a word and hand signal. But wait until he's already coming. (for now)


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## lisasgirl

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but did you say he gets along with other dogs? Do you think a regular playdate would help, or is that too much disruption to his routine?

My little Cleo can be fearful, though not on the level that Merlin is, and I know that having Archie around really helps her. He's confident and curious, so he runs up to all the scary things and she's able to hang back and see that nothing bad happens to him. She always seems rattled and more generally nervous whenever she's separated from Archie - she'll often just hide in her crate until he comes back, even if I'm home with her.

If Merlin is more comfortable with other dogs than with humans, it might be helpful for him to be around them somewhat regularly. Not that you should get another dog, of course (unless you already want to), but maybe a calm doggy friend you can meet for playdates or something.


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## Dechi

lisasgirl said:


> Forgive me if I'm wrong, but did you say he gets along with other dogs? Do you think a regular playdate would help, or is that too much disruption to his routine?
> 
> My little Cleo can be fearful, though not on the level that Merlin is, and I know that having Archie around really helps her. He's confident and curious, so he runs up to all the scary things and she's able to hang back and see that nothing bad happens to him. She always seems rattled and more generally nervous whenever she's separated from Archie - she'll often just hide in her crate until he comes back, even if I'm home with her.
> 
> If Merlin is more comfortable with other dogs than with humans, it might be helpful for him to be around them somewhat regularly. Not that you should get another dog, of course (unless you already want to), but maybe a calm doggy friend you can meet for playdates or something.


Yes, he likes other dogs. When the weather is nice enough (not for the next 3-4 months unfortunately) we go for walks and he sometimes meets friends. He plays for a few minutes then he's had enough and we keep going. At home he has Tamara, our little 4 pound, 12 year old Chihuahua, to be with. She will play with him a few minutes per day. He's usually the one to initiate it, when he feels good enough, which is rare now with this new med.

But even if Tamara goes places in the house, most of the time he will keep to his own and not follow her. I think if Tamara was younger and more playful it would help more.


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## Dechi

We started Prozac on december 7th, so today is day 31. He is still on the lowest dose, ie 0.6 ml per day. He has been eating every night for more than a week, and he takes the medicine directly in his food, which is a lot easier (he gets the liquid form).

I started to see tiny little changes yesterday and the day before. He started playing a little more with his toys, like he used to, and playing with Tamara also. Today he played at least 4 times. We had a play session and he was wagging his tail the whole time.

He is a little bit less afraid of the tv. Instead of going in the kitchen when he is scared, he paces a little bit, looks at the tv and then goes to his bed. Before I had to order him to go lie down or he would be restless and pace non-stop. Also, he can play even if the tv is on, which he rately did before. He sometimes stops to look at it, but after a few seconds, he starts playing again.

This is encouraging. The big mistake was to start him on the highest dose. It is my fault for not asking the vet. I just assumed she would start him on the low dose, like the previous vet at done. I only found out when she called me back. So now it means if the drug is working, I can very slowly up the dosage until he is the most comfortable possible without disturbing side effects.

For now I will keep him on this low dose until I am convinced he is not improving anymore. I don't want to give him more than necessary.


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## Muggles

That is great news Dechi. I'm so hopeful for you and Merlin.


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## lily cd re

I am happy to see this update. Those sound like really meaningful changes and I hope progress continues.


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## Mfmst

Nice to read, Dechi! Hope he continues to make progress


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## MollyMuiMa

Wow! It seems to be progressing well for him! Hope it continues!


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## Asta's Mom

Dechi it is so good that you are seeing some progress with Merlin - how encouraging that he is playing again. Still say my prayers for Merlin most every day when I take my medication.


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## Dechi

Asta's Mom said:


> Dechi it is so good that you are seeing some progress with Merlin - how encouraging that he is playing again. Still say my prayers for Merlin most every day when I take my medication.


Thank you Asta's mom, that is very sweet and kind of you !


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## Dechi

He's been on 0,6 ml for more than a week and doing fine (eating and not more fearful than before) so I started increasing to 0,8 ml tonight.

I will leave him at 0,8 for at least 3-4 weeks, to see how he does.


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## lily cd re

That sounds splendid. I think if you have to back it down as you go along that direction of change will be easier. I hope you hit the right mark with this change though.


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## Dechi

We've been on 0,8 ml for 7 days now. Tonight there was a change. A noticeable one. I don't know if it's because my son was home and he wasn't sure about him (although he spent at least 10-15 minutes on his lap), if it's because the meds are starting to work, or just because, for no reason.

But it was nice to see. Me and my daughter were busy preparing my son's birthday dinner so there was a lot of moving around and noise. He stayed on my son's lap for a few minutes, then came to be with us. With me, mostly. He followed me around, staying about 2-3 feet away from me and looking at me. Sometimes he was so close He was actually underfoot. When I moved, instead of going around the table as usual, he would simply go away 2-3 feet farther, but stayed closed. He had never done that. I even gave him a little chicken, I was so happy !

To encourage him, I made sure I often bent down and pet him. He came, not so scared as usual and when I took him in my arms, instead of being stiff like a hockey stick, as usual, he was almost relaxed and even seemed to enjoy being in my arms.

Tonight he was closer to being a normal dog. I also think his reactions to the tv are a lot less extreme. I will have to watch him more closely tomorrow. It's always trickier to notice the absence of a behavior that it's presence.

To be followed...


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## Muggles

Dechi that is such great news!


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## lily cd re

Thrilled beyond words here.


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## Dechi

Thank you Muggles and Lily ! Let's hope it's real...


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## Skylar

Between the haircut and the medications, it's like he's coming out of his shell to be a new dog. I hope the success continues. And good for you for noticing and rewarding the positive change.


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## Streetcar

This is sounding so promising, Dechi. I know you didn't ask, but there is a serious impact to removing a med like this. You have posted you like to test whether a medicine is still needed after a time. Please do not just remove this medication from Merlin in one fell swoop when that tempts you. It has a serious impact on humans and I am certain that is also the case for pets.

If you decide to remove this aid from Merlin in the future, please only draw it down in tiny increments over a long period of time. That's all I am comfortable posting here given recent user attacks on other members.


----------



## Dechi

Streetcar said:


> This is sounding so promising, Dechi. I know you didn't ask, but there is a serious impact to removing a med like this. You have posted you like to test whether a medicine is still needed after a time. Please do not just remove this medication from Merlin in one fell swoop when that tempts you. It has a serious impact on humans and I am certain that is also the case for pets.
> 
> If you decide to remove this aid from Merlin in the future, please only draw it down in tiny increments over a long period of time. That's all I am comfortable posting here given recent user attacks on other members.



Thank you for the advice, Streetcar. Rest assured I am very aware of the side effects of withdrawal from such meds. I would never ever take him off Prozac in just a few days. From what I have read, it has to be a very slow process, and the longer he has been on it, the longer you take to wean him off. We're taking many weeks, months even. But we're not there yet, and if this med works, I think he will be on it for life. I tried going off the meds before, and I did it slowly, not in one shot, and events have proven me wrong for doing so.

I want what's best for him and if it means taking Prozac for life, then so be it.

I haven't been aware of attacks by members, I am sorry about that.


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## Streetcar

Dechi, I've loved your posts since you arrived here, and you're a much better, more consistent citizen of PF than I could hope to be. Any Poodle, and especially precious Merlin, is safe in your most competent hands and heart. Honestly, I have searched my memory banks and not found anyone who could have offered the caring, loving home you have.

The thing on attacks was about politics in the off-topic area, but it's made me wary about posting here.


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## Viking Queen

I have been following this and your longtime posts about your work with Merlin.

You have done a FABULOUS job and it makes me so happy for both of you to see that you hard work is finally seeing results!

BRAVO!!

Viking Queen


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## Dechi

Streetcar said:


> Dechi, I've loved your posts since you arrived here, and you're a much better, more consistent citizen of PF than I could hope to be. Any Poodle, and especially precious Merlin, is safe in your most competent hands and heart. Honestly, I have searched my memory banks and not found anyone who could have offered the caring, loving home you have.
> 
> The thing on attacks was about politics in the off-topic area, but it's made me wary about posting here.


This is unexpected, but I'll take it as one of life's little gifts along the way... Thank you !


----------



## Dechi

Viking Queen said:


> I have been following this and your longtime posts about your work with Merlin.
> 
> You have done a FABULOUS job and it makes me so happy for both of you to see that you hard work is finally seeing results!
> 
> BRAVO!!
> 
> Viking Queen


Thank you very much VQ ! ;-)


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## Streetcar

You are well and truly Merlin's angel on earth, Dechi.


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## MollyMuiMa

Just checking in to see how you guys are doing and SO HAPPY it's good news!!!! YAY!!!!!


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## Dechi

I monitored him with the tv on today. I'd say there is a 30%-40% improvement. Instead of pacing nervously, looking left and right and going up and down the stairs when the tv is on, he now stops, looks at it for a 5-10 seconds then resumes his activity. He is confident enough to go back to playing even if the tv is on. He doesn't want to run away from it anymore and will go back to his bed by himself, or just stay in it.

That's a good sign, and I will use the tv as a monitor of his progress. If I can't get him to ignore it almost completely at this dosage, say in 3 weeks, then I will increase it a bit and check him again.


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## Muggles

Yay! That is such great progress. Go Merlin!


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## Dechi

Here he is playing with Tamara (she loves harrassing him) while House of Cards is on.

https://youtu.be/ztEgGz2WRjg


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## Muggles

Very cute! I love the look he gives you at the end. Such a sweet face!


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## marialydia

Wow, what a difference! You have truly given Merlin a new life, and I hope both you and he can bask in some fun and relaxing time together. Brava!


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## Dechi

Update : I upped his meds at 0,9 ml 2 days ago. I don't want to go too fast, so 1 ml increase only.


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## Mfmst

So evident in that video with Tamara as to how much he's improved! Remember the doggie cam where he could not relax for even a second with her? Hugs to all of you in celebration of this hard-won progress!


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## Asta's Mom

So good to see Merlin playing  I am so happy for you - continued prayers and well wishes!


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## Dechi

Mfmst said:


> So evident in that video with Tamara as to how much he's improved! Remember the doggie cam where he could not relax for even a second with her? Hugs to all of you in celebration of this hard-won progress!


Yes, he was very stiff in the beginning. Progress are slow but now he is playing more. I love it when they play, but if I look he stops, so I have to do it discreetly !


----------



## Dechi

Update : it's been 2 months maybe now. Maybe I was just less anxious myself for a while and he felt more relaxed, but other than him playing with Tamara more consistently, we're pretty much stuck where we were.

He's still afraid of the tv and of anything else, like before. He is still at 0.9 ml of Prozac per day.

Today I had some medical tests so I left at 1000 this morning and came back at 5 pm. My daughter was in school. I left them both in the office with the door closed, which is where they sleep and feel comfortable. Merlin has his crate and there is a bed where they both fit. Since it doesn't work in the living room, I figured it might work in there. But no, he peed a few times near his crate.

I will have to call the vet and change his meds, there is no sense keeping him on it any longer. I will slowly wean him off once I have the new meds.

I am discouraged, again. I figure I will try and find him a home with a nice retired lady who stays home. My daughter says she wants none of that and wants to keep him, but I don't see how a young attorney starting a career could deal with a urine mess every day when she comes back home tired, hoping to relax. This dog just can't stay alone, he can't tolerate it. He's not happy being alone, his anxiety hits the roof.


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## zooeysmom

I don't know what to say except I'm sorry it's been so hard for you and Merlin right now. Sending you a big hug.


----------



## Dechi

zooeysmom said:


> I don't know what to say except I'm sorry it's been so hard for you and Merlin right now. Sending you a big hug.


Thank you, it is very much appreciated.


----------



## Muggles

I'm so sorry Dechi. You have tried so hard with Merlin and I know it must be completely devastating to see him continuous stressed.


----------



## Dechi

Muggles said:


> I'm so sorry Dechi. You have tried so hard with Merlin and I know it must be completely devastating to see him continuous stressed.



Thank you Muggles.


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## Skylar

That's so disappointing and frustrating. I completely understand your daughter's feelings but in the end you have to do what is best for Merlin.


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## Poodlebeguiled

Well, I've got to hand it to you. You've got grit. I couldn't watch a dog suffer like that for so long. I couldn't keep a dog going that is so intensely full of anxiety. But I'm a wimp. I'd have put him down probably. Of course, it's hard to say for sure what one would do when one is not in your position. Maybe re-homing him will help marginally, but I don't see how when he's deathly afraid of so much. I am truly sorry you've gone through all this pain and sadness. Truly I am. You'll do what's best because you know Merlin the best. I do hope something will work for this poor fella.


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## MollyMuiMa

I am sorry.................you have tried soooooo hard to give him a chance at 'normal'. But if re-homing him is what is best, then that is what you should do! You did your best!


----------



## Caddy

Dechi I'm so sorry things aren't going well, and I know that's an understatement for you and poor Merlin. It's so sad he didn't have a better start to his life, you've gone above and beyond and I trust you know what's best for him and for you.


----------



## marialydia

Oh Dechi so sorry to hear this situation. You have gone the whole mile with Merlin. At some level he must appreciate this, I am sure of it, he just can't help himself. Please know that whatever you decide, you can do it knowing you have given him as much as you have been able to, and you have given him some much better time.


----------



## Poodlebeguiled

Yes you have. You've taken on a monumental task of trying to help him and give him a better life. And I think you have given him a better life but he just doesn't seem to get past a certain point does he. Like we've talked about before, he just might have something wired wrong...something neurological or organic. You've gone above and beyond. He's just a sad little creature. I hope there's a way to help him by re-homing him. I really do. But I have my doubts because of the hugely global array of things that frighten him so badly...that he never seems to get over. I'm just so sorry.


----------



## Dechi

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Yes you have. You've taken on a monumental task of trying to help him and give him a better life. And I think you have given him a better life but he just doesn't seem to get past a certain point does he. Like we've talked about before, he just might have something wired wrong...something neurological or organic. You've gone above and beyond. He's just a sad little creature. I hope there's a way to help him by re-homing him. I really do. But I have my doubts because of the hugely global array of things that frighten him so badly...that he never seems to get over. I'm just so sorry.


This is such a big dilemma. I don't think he is suffering, really. I wouldn't do well if he was. He just can't cope with much. I can't bring him back to the breeder, I can't give him to just anybody, the person will have to be used to fearful/anxious dogs or she might get bitten, and I can't give him to someone who's not at home most of the time.

Maybe I will just try with a rescue and see what they think. Maybe there ismthat special someone for him somewhere.

But I'm not ready to go back to work now. I am still not physically well enough. So for now he's staying here and I'll try another medication. Who knows, one might work.

Right now he is where he is happy, on my lap, and just thinking I would put him down makes me so sad. Unless I am really, really stuck with no solution, he will not be put down. I think he deserves to live.


----------



## Poodlebeguiled

You know best. You've spent so much time with Merlin that you know the ins and outs that I couldn't possibly know nor could anyone. And that he is happy being on your lap is indeed heart warming. I wish he could always be on your lap. Hopefully he gets more enjoyment out of life than fear. Of course he deserves to live. I sure hope you didn't think I would put a dog down casually, for no good reason. I just hate to see an animal hurt so much...physically or emotionally. It would be wonderful if you find someone who's home most of the time...maybe someone elderly who doesn't do a whole lot and who could have a lap for him a good deal of the time. That's something he really loves, huh. 

I'm sorry you're not well but glad you can stay home with him for now. Wouldn't it be great if you didn't have to go back to work? I sure wish you and Merlin the best, whatever transpires.


----------



## Dechi

Poodlebeguiled said:


> You know best. You've spent so much time with Merlin that you know the ins and outs that I couldn't possibly know nor could anyone. And that he is happy being on your lap is indeed heart warming. I wish he could always be on your lap. Hopefully he gets more enjoyment out of life than fear. Of course he deserves to live. I sure hope you didn't think I would put a dog down casually, for no good reason. I just hate to see an animal hurt so much...physically or emotionally. It would be wonderful if you find someone who's home most of the time...maybe someone elderly who doesn't do a whole lot and who could have a lap for him a good deal of the time. That's something he really loves, huh.
> 
> I'm sorry you're not well but glad you can stay home with him for now. Wouldn't it be great if you didn't have to go back to work? I sure wish you and Merlin the best, whatever transpires.


Don't worry, I know you wouldn't put down a dog without careful consideration. It's hard to judge when you haven't see him in person, but your point is certainly valid.


----------



## lily cd re

I am so sorry to see that his progress has not continued. This is a very hard situation for everyone concerned. I can't imagine trying to balance all of the issues you have on your plate.


----------



## Summertime.Holly

I second a trial run of tranquilizers or something more than Prozac. Prozac is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, meaning it's primarily an antidepressant which may or may not help with anxiety. SSIs are hardly ever effective in managing severe anxiety disorders in humans and are most commonly used in conjunction with a sedative once a person loses functionality, like Merlin has. Trazodone is an SARI, so it's also an antidepressant, it just has side effects that include sedation.

The other medication you've tried, Clonicalm, is also an antidepressant most commonly used in dogs and cats to treat obsessive behavior like grooming disorders in cats and destructive behavior in dogs. Clonicalm is a brand name, the generic name is Clomipramine. Clomipramine is different from Prozac in that it is a non-selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor meaning it affects more than just serotonin in the brain. It's in the same class as Trazodone. In humans Clomipramine is used to treat disorders like OCD and trichotillomania.

I haven't been following your story closely but from what you describe you dog really needs more than an SRI or SSRI. I think he needs a sedative/tranquilizer. 

Tranquilizers like Xanax or Valium are taken in small doses over a period of time. Try not to think of it in the same way as you do a typical tranquilizer used to temporarily sedate dangerous animals or chemically restrain people who are ill. It's in a separate pharmaceutical class than the drugs you've tried and work very differently in the brain. They're made to target anxiety and reduce symptoms, instead of aiming to reduce anxiety overall by regulating brain chemicals.

I don't think your dog has a chemical imbalance as much as he does a severely damaged thought process. SSRIs and SRIs fix brain chemistry so an individual doesn't experience an inappropriate anxiety response, meaning they're anxious over something that isn't a threat to them. His brain chemistry is going to be off because he's always so full of stress hormones, but I believe that even if his chemistry was normal he'd be anxious because it's the way he thinks. He functions in a state of constant anxiety and fixing his brain chemistry isn't going to be very effective because it's gone beyond an innate hormonal response into a thought process problem. He thinks anxiously and thus he is anxious. Even if you don't have a problem in brain chemistry you can convince yourself that something is threatening and illicit a hormonal response. 

Cognitive behavioral therapy is used to treat an improper thought process in humans, and things like counter conditioning are used to fix the thought process in dogs. 

If you could get him calm enough to counter condition or otherwise rehabilitate you might repair the beliefs he has about the things that scare him. As is, I'm guessing counter conditioning and exposure therapy haven't yielded anything at all. And they may not ever be effective for anxiety so severe. But a sedative/tranquilizer might help him get in a place mentally where he isn't too terrified to learn around his triggers.

I'm going to give you an article on use of Xanax in dogs and let you digest this information. I highly, highly suggest trying sedative drugs instead of antidepressants. I'd also suggest checking any drug your vet gives you to be sure it isn't an SSRI or an SRI, because those have been ineffective thus far and there's no reason to believe a different one would work differently. Your dog has tried two medicines that regulate serotonin and neither have helped much. If he were a human the doctor would be trying drugs in a new class right about now. 

https://www.vetinfo.com/xanax-dogs-anxiety.html

I'm very sorry you're going through this. I can't imagine how heartbreaking it is to see him struggle so much with life.


----------



## Dechi

Summertime.Holly said:


> I second a trial run of tranquilizers or something more than Prozac. Prozac is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, meaning it's primarily an antidepressant which may or may not help with anxiety. SSIs are hardly ever effective in managing severe anxiety disorders in humans and are most commonly used in conjunction with a sedative once a person loses functionality, like Merlin has. Trazodone is an SARI, so it's also an antidepressant, it just has side effects that include sedation.
> 
> The other medication you've tried, Clonicalm, is also an antidepressant most commonly used in dogs and cats to treat obsessive behavior like grooming disorders in cats and destructive behavior in dogs. Clonicalm is a brand name, the generic name is Clomipramine. Clomipramine is different from Prozac in that it is a non-selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor meaning it affects more than just serotonin in the brain. It's in the same class as Trazodone. In humans Clomipramine is used to treat disorders like OCD and trichotillomania.
> 
> I haven't been following your story closely but from what you describe you dog really needs more than an SRI or SSRI. I think he needs a sedative/tranquilizer.
> 
> Tranquilizers like Xanax or Valium are taken in small doses over a period of time. Try not to think of it in the same way as you do a typical tranquilizer used to temporarily sedate dangerous animals or chemically restrain people who are ill. It's in a separate pharmaceutical class than the drugs you've tried and work very differently in the brain. They're made to target anxiety and reduce symptoms, instead of aiming to reduce anxiety overall by regulating brain chemicals.
> 
> I don't think your dog has a chemical imbalance as much as he does a severely damaged thought process. SSRIs and SRIs fix brain chemistry so an individual doesn't experience an inappropriate anxiety response, meaning they're anxious over something that isn't a threat to them. His brain chemistry is going to be off because he's always so full of stress hormones, but I believe that even if his chemistry was normal he'd be anxious because it's the way he thinks. He functions in a state of constant anxiety and fixing his brain chemistry isn't going to be very effective because it's gone beyond an innate hormonal response into a thought process problem. He thinks anxiously and thus he is anxious. Even if you don't have a problem in brain chemistry you can convince yourself that something is threatening and illicit a hormonal response.
> 
> Cognitive behavioral therapy is used to treat an improper thought process in humans, and things like counter conditioning are used to fix the thought process in dogs.
> 
> If you could get him calm enough to counter condition or otherwise rehabilitate you might repair the beliefs he has about the things that scare him. As is, I'm guessing counter conditioning and exposure therapy haven't yielded anything at all. And they may not ever be effective for anxiety so severe. But a sedative/tranquilizer might help him get in a place mentally where he isn't too terrified to learn around his triggers.
> 
> I'm going to give you an article on use of Xanax in dogs and let you digest this information. I highly, highly suggest trying sedative drugs instead of antidepressants. I'd also suggest checking any drug your vet gives you to be sure it isn't an SSRI or an SRI, because those have been ineffective thus far and there's no reason to believe a different one would work differently. Your dog has tried two medicines that regulate serotonin and neither have helped much. If he were a human the doctor would be trying drugs in a new class right about now.
> 
> https://www.vetinfo.com/xanax-dogs-anxiety.html
> 
> I'm very sorry you're going through this. I can't imagine how heartbreaking it is to see him struggle so much with life.


Wow, thank you so much, you seem to have a lot of knowledge in that field ! Are you a vet or doctor ?

I will certainly take into account your input. I will check your link and research Xanax further before talking to my vet.

Do you know if Xanax is okay for long-time use, even for life ?

Thanks again ! ;-)


----------



## lily cd re

Summertime.Holly thank you for that comprehensive analysis of Merlin's situation. I know that Dechi truly wants what's best for him and helping her to understand the physiology of what may be happening with him so comprehensively along with explaining what those different classes of drugs can do was very enlightening to me and I am sure all the more so for her.


----------



## Summertime.Holly

Oh goodness, I'm not a doctor. I do have a pretty severe anxiety disorder though. I've been managing it with medication and therapy for years, and over time you learn what classes of drugs work for you and what don't, and you learn the difference in how medications work. 

If you do decide to use a benzo like xanax with Merlin, you need to be vigilant of tolerance and withdrawal. In small, small doses he shouldn't have too big of a problem with tolerance. You may have to up his dose in a few years, but it usually takes five or six years for a human who's taking their medication as prescribed to develop a tolerance to the point where their medication no longer works. As long as you're mindful of his tolerance he'll be fine taking it as long as he needs it, even for life. He will go through withdrawal if you stop it suddenly or miss a dose, but since you've been consistent with his medication thus far I doubt you'd do something like that. 

Doctors are sometimes hesitant to prescribe benzodiazepines for more than a few weeks because they're addictive. It's technically safe for long-term use but dependence is a big issue. Dogs obviously can't abuse their medication without your help, but even at a prescribed dose he'll be chemically dependent on the medication and stopping it could be very dangerous.They'll usually prescribe it to be taken before an anxiety attack or in a stressful situation, so he'd be given the Xanax in the morning before you go to work because your absence is a trigger for his anxiety. You can also give it to him if you want to watch TV, or before he eats. You don't want to give him too much in one day, but you do want to keep him comfortable. 

You should see immediate results with a sedative, though it'd be best to wait a week or so and see how he does on it day-to-day. If the side affects are bad you'll know a few hours to a few days after the initial dose and can stop it. You can also tweak the amount dose to dose, so if he's afraid of thunder storms you can give him more before one comes in. 

Using a sedative like xanax is a big decision, especially since it's a slippery slope of dependence and tolerance. Once you're a few weeks into treatment with a medication like xanax it's hard to go back and try a different one, which is why it's important to see how he does with the first few doses and go from there. If you start having problems a week or so in you can just half his dose for the next three of four dosings and then quit it altogether. It takes a while to be chemically dependent to the point where weaning over a few days would cause withdrawal. 

It's a big decision and it isn't the right one for a lot of dogs. Most dogs do perfectly on just a normal SSRI or SRI with behavior modification, but in my opinion Merlin is one of the few dogs who'd really benefit from a sedative. He can't benefit from behavior modification because he's so fearful, so your treatment options are severely limited. 

Everyone makes different decisions about their dogs, but if Merlin was my dog I'd see about a small dose of sedative, keep him on the Prozac then work hard on counter conditioning against his fear triggers while he's calm and under learning threshold. If I ever felt confident that he could continue to cope with his stressors without the sedative I'd half the dose and see how he did. He'd be more anxious than he was on a full dose, but he might be better than he is now and he'd be less dependent on medicine. I'd aim for weaning him off of the medicine entirely and moving him exclusively onto an SSRI or SRI, which aren't addictive. 

The goal is to use the sedative to help him get to a place where he can learn that the things he thinks are bad, aren't really bad, and use the SSRI to keep him there. You do that through a lot of positive reinforcement. But you have to accept that he may never get to the point where he's ready to confront life without sedation. If you were in a different financial situation I'd suggest consulting a veterinary behaviorist to help you work with him but I don't think that's possible for you right now. He may never get to a place where he can handle his stressors without sedation and that's okay, you'll just have to commit to a lifetime of very carefully managing his medication.

It's a matter of weighing his quality of life now, versus his quality of life possibly dependent on a sedative to handle stressors.

I do think you should do more research before deciding what to do. I did find a very in depth article about the use of anti-anxiety drugs in a dog named Piglet who was so noise sensitive that she'd have anxiety attacks over birds chirping in the yard. 

DogAware.com Articles: Chill Pills -- Anxiety Medications for Dogs

Have you tried ThunderShirts or other anti-anxiety wraps? I don't think it would be effective in his overall anxiety but I do think it might help him while he eats or while you watch TV.


----------



## lisasgirl

Just chiming in as someone with a different benzodiazepine prescription - one thing to be aware of is that they're typically more controlled than other medications because they're heavily abused by illegal drug users. What this means is that depending on your state regulations, you may have to go directly to a pharmacy to pick them up, show your ID, and there may be extra hurdles before a pharmacy will release them to you. You may only be able to get a relatively small amount at once, as well, so it can be a repeat hassle.

I'm just throwing that out there as something to be aware of, since you've mentioned some health challenges in the past. If you're used to being able to order prescriptions by mail, it can be irritating.

That said, I do agree that they're worth considering and may be very helpful for Merlin.


----------



## Dechi

lisasgirl said:


> Just chiming in as someone with a different benzodiazepine prescription - one thing to be aware of is that they're typically more controlled than other medications because they're heavily abused by illegal drug users. What this means is that depending on your state regulations, you may have to go directly to a pharmacy to pick them up, show your ID, and there may be extra hurdles before a pharmacy will release them to you. You may only be able to get a relatively small amount at once, as well, so it can be a repeat hassle.
> 
> I'm just throwing that out there as something to be aware of, since you've mentioned some health challenges in the past. If you're used to being able to order prescriptions by mail, it can be irritating.
> 
> That said, I do agree that they're worth considering and may be very helpful for Merlin.


Thank you. I don't think it's a problem here but I'll keep that in mind. My pharmacy is used to me and the ton of meds I try, and I never had a problem. Don't know if I ever was prescribed benzos, but probably.


----------



## Dechi

Summertime.Holly said:


> Oh goodness, I'm not a doctor. I do have a pretty severe anxiety disorder though. I've been managing it with medication and therapy for years, and over time you learn what classes of drugs work for you and what don't, and you learn the difference in how medications work.
> 
> If you do decide to use a benzo like xanax with Merlin, you need to be vigilant of tolerance and withdrawal. In small, small doses he shouldn't have too big of a problem with tolerance. You may have to up his dose in a few years, but it usually takes five or six years for a human who's taking their medication as prescribed to develop a tolerance to the point where their medication no longer works. As long as you're mindful of his tolerance he'll be fine taking it as long as he needs it, even for life. He will go through withdrawal if you stop it suddenly or miss a dose, but since you've been consistent with his medication thus far I doubt you'd do something like that.
> 
> Doctors are sometimes hesitant to prescribe benzodiazepines for more than a few weeks because they're addictive. It's technically safe for long-term use but dependence is a big issue. Dogs obviously can't abuse their medication without your help, but even at a prescribed dose he'll be chemically dependent on the medication and stopping it could be very dangerous.They'll usually prescribe it to be taken before an anxiety attack or in a stressful situation, so he'd be given the Xanax in the morning before you go to work because your absence is a trigger for his anxiety. You can also give it to him if you want to watch TV, or before he eats. You don't want to give him too much in one day, but you do want to keep him comfortable.
> 
> You should see immediate results with a sedative, though it'd be best to wait a week or so and see how he does on it day-to-day. If the side affects are bad you'll know a few hours to a few days after the initial dose and can stop it. You can also tweak the amount dose to dose, so if he's afraid of thunder storms you can give him more before one comes in.
> 
> Using a sedative like xanax is a big decision, especially since it's a slippery slope of dependence and tolerance. Once you're a few weeks into treatment with a medication like xanax it's hard to go back and try a different one, which is why it's important to see how he does with the first few doses and go from there. If you start having problems a week or so in you can just half his dose for the next three of four dosings and then quit it altogether. It takes a while to be chemically dependent to the point where weaning over a few days would cause withdrawal.
> 
> It's a big decision and it isn't the right one for a lot of dogs. Most dogs do perfectly on just a normal SSRI or SRI with behavior modification, but in my opinion Merlin is one of the few dogs who'd really benefit from a sedative. He can't benefit from behavior modification because he's so fearful, so your treatment options are severely limited.
> 
> Everyone makes different decisions about their dogs, but if Merlin was my dog I'd see about a small dose of sedative, keep him on the Prozac then work hard on counter conditioning against his fear triggers while he's calm and under learning threshold. If I ever felt confident that he could continue to cope with his stressors without the sedative I'd half the dose and see how he did. He'd be more anxious than he was on a full dose, but he might be better than he is now and he'd be less dependent on medicine. I'd aim for weaning him off of the medicine entirely and moving him exclusively onto an SSRI or SRI, which aren't addictive.
> 
> The goal is to use the sedative to help him get to a place where he can learn that the things he thinks are bad, aren't really bad, and use the SSRI to keep him there. You do that through a lot of positive reinforcement. But you have to accept that he may never get to the point where he's ready to confront life without sedation. If you were in a different financial situation I'd suggest consulting a veterinary behaviorist to help you work with him but I don't think that's possible for you right now. He may never get to a place where he can handle his stressors without sedation and that's okay, you'll just have to commit to a lifetime of very carefully managing his medication.
> 
> It's a matter of weighing his quality of life now, versus his quality of life possibly dependent on a sedative to handle stressors.
> 
> I do think you should do more research before deciding what to do. I did find a very in depth article about the use of anti-anxiety drugs in a dog named Piglet who was so noise sensitive that she'd have anxiety attacks over birds chirping in the yard.
> 
> DogAware.com Articles: Chill Pills -- Anxiety Medications for Dogs
> 
> Have you tried ThunderShirts or other anti-anxiety wraps? I don't think it would be effective in his overall anxiety but I do think it might help him while he eats or while you watch TV.


Thanks again for more very useful infos. Merlin has been to a behaviorist, the best (and one of 2 only certified trained vet behaviorists) and I was very disappointed. What they wanted me to try at home didn't work at all, even though Merlin responded well to it at the vet's office. They were using treats to modify his behavior, but he never takes treats when anxious at home. Their room was almost empty except for the chairs, and he does better in open environments. I have a thread about it, if you're interested.

http://www.poodleforum.com/23-general-training-obedience/198289-follow-up-visit-behaviorist-vet.html

I haven't tried the thundershirt (he's not afraid of thunder as far as I know, strangely) or anti-anxiety wrap. I figured they were for less severe cases. I should research them more.


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## twyla

Dechi I wish you luck, I don't want to discourage you since you already have been on this difficult journey with Merlin.

Remember Gracie, she was my mom's dog, the pom/chi mix with inappropriate aggression and severe anxiety issues. She has been on the max dose of Prozac for 18 months and on 3.5 mg 2x daily of Trazodone for the last 7 months. Finally she is happier. it took a long time with medication and training (Nothing in life is free method), I never thought to mention she had seperation anxiety as well. Routine was key when leaving her behind, I never made it a big deal.


It's worth mentioning that Gracie's Trazodone, is a narcotic (a controlled substance), due to her size it has to be specially compounded. I am lucky that there is a semi-local pharmacy that does it, last time I had to have specially made meds for a dog it was made in North Carolina and mailed to me.

Best advice is a good dialogue with your vet about what is going on, what is working and what isn't. I worked together with my vet to find the best way to treat Gracie.

None of this was easy

Rehoming isn't easy either, most people don't want to deal with a dog with serious issues, especially if the dog has bitten people no matter the reason why. 

I wish you the best in your journey with Merlin.


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## Dechi

twyla said:


> Dechi I wish you luck, I don't want to discourage you since you already have been on this difficult journey with Merlin.
> 
> Remember Gracie, she was my mom's dog, the pom/chi mix with inappropriate aggression and severe anxiety issues. She has been on the max dose of Prozac for 18 months and on 3.5 mg 2x daily of Trazodone for the last 7 months. Finally she is happier. it took a long time with medication and training (Nothing in life is free method), I never thought to mention she had seperation anxiety as well. Routine was key when leaving her behind, I never made it a big deal.
> 
> 
> It's worth mentioning that Gracie's Trazodone, is a narcotic (a controlled substance), due to her size it has to be specially compounded. I am lucky that there is a semi-local pharmacy that does it, last time I had to have specially made meds for a dog it was made in North Carolina and mailed to me.
> 
> Best advice is a good dialogue with your vet about what is going on, what is working and what isn't. I worked together with my vet to find the best way to treat Gracie.
> 
> None of this was easy
> 
> Rehoming isn't easy either, most people don't want to deal with a dog with serious issues, especially if the dog has bitten people no matter the reason why.
> 
> I wish you the best in your journey with Merlin.


Thanks for sharing your mom's dog story, Twyla. It always feels good to read about happy endings !


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## Dechi

Update on his meds : since he started being scared of the tv again, I slightly decreased his meds from 0.9ml to 0.8 ml.

I won't decrease much more without making up my mind on what med I want next and mostly, talking to the vet.


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## Summertime.Holly

Thundershirts cause a "reset" of the nervous system by applying gentle, even pressure all over the dog. It's the same reason infants find swaddling so comforting, and the reason some people like squishing between couch cushions or sleeping under heavy blankets.

Deep pressure therapy is a technique used to help with sensory overload problems in people with sensory processing disorders or autism. There's a neat suit made by the company woombie for younger children called the soothie suit, and it's basically a jumpsuit with no arm holes. A lot of adults with autism use weighed blankets, weighted clothes and compression garments to get the same nervous system "reset" as children do smooshing into tight spaces or infants being swaddled. 

Thundershirts work on the same principle. Wrapping gives the same security and cooldown from stimulus the dog might find overwhelming like a TV or thunder. It may be worth looking into.

I hope you find something to help Merlin. Is his story posted in another thread? I'm interested as to why he's so fearful. Was he a puppy mill dog?


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## Dechi

Summertime, yes, his story is here if you want to read it :

http://www.poodleforum.com/2-member-introductions/167354-hello-new-member.html

There are many posts about him, too many to post. If you search my threads you can choose which ones you want to read, if any.


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## Dechi

I went to the vet yesterday, mostly for Tamara (I'll open a seperate post about that) but also to talk about Merlin's medication.

Basically she told me she isn't comfortable deciding what meds to give him, she wants me to see a behaviorist vet. But the only behaviorist near me (there are only 2 in the whole province) is the one I saw and didn't like. So for now I told her I wanted to really give Clomicalm a good try before trying something else. We did have improvement with it but I didn't like it because it had to be given twice a day. And I didn't leave him on it long enough. Now after the Prozac experience, I guess I have come to terms with my initial resistance.

I am taking him off Prozac slowly, over a 4 week period. Then he will get a few days break before we start Clomicalm again. Clomicalm works fast, in 10 days I should see results. I will try it for at least 2 months amd see from there. 

He was at 0.8ml when I went to the vet, so yesterday I cut down to 0.6 ml and will be cutting down by increments of 0.2ml per week. So I guess we'll be done in 3 weeks, not 4. I had already started decreasing a bit because he became more scared of the tv. Prozac can make dogs more anxious than they are, in some cases, and that's what it does to Merlin when the dose is too high.


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## marialydia

Oh my goodness, you are doing everything possible for little Merlin. Just one query: do you need a break between the two? If there are no interactions, would it be safe to start right away with the Clomicalm, or even overlap? I am thinking of Merlin, but also you -- if he's off everything, he might revert too far back?

In the meantime I hope you are both enjoying lap time!


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## Dechi

marialydia said:


> Oh my goodness, you are doing everything possible for little Merlin. Just one query: do you need a break between the two? If there are no interactions, would it be safe to start right away with the Clomicalm, or even overlap? I am thinking of Merlin, but also you -- if he's off everything, he might revert too far back?
> 
> In the meantime I hope you are both enjoying lap time!


Thank you ! The vet said to give him a week, but maybe I will give him 2-3 days, because during the last week of weaning, he will be at 0.2 ml, which is very little.

As for lap time, I am having a very stressfull period on a personal level right now, nothing to do with Merlin, so sometimes his anxiety makes my own anxiety worse, I make him worse too, so it's a full circle... When it's like that he has his lap time with my daughter. So we have a little less lap time.


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## Skylar

marialydia said:


> Oh my goodness, you are doing everything possible for little Merlin. Just one query: do you need a break between the two? If there are no interactions, would it be safe to start right away with the Clomicalm, or even overlap? I am thinking of Merlin, but also you -- if he's off everything, he might revert too far back?
> 
> In the meantime I hope you are both enjoying lap time!


I would look further into this and perhaps call your vet back. I have no experience with these drugs, but many drugs can safely be overlapped - starting one while weaning off another - if they have a different mode of action. Since your vet is not comfortable with this kind of treatment, he/she may not be aware of nuances such as this which is why the referral back to the behaviorist vet.


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## Dechi

F/U : I finished weaning him off the prozac a few days ago and we started his first clomicalm (clomipramine) dose tonight.

He seemed more relaxed tonight already. It's supposed to take 10 days but maybe it's just side effects from the first dose or his body remembers it, since he took it for a while before.

Here he is relaxing while we are watching tv together. I was able to take the picture while he was resting. Usually any noise or movement makes him alert.

We'll see how it goes. I bought some pill pockets and prepared the meds in advance for the next days. It will be easier this way.


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## Asta's Mom

What a sweet picture of Merlin -sorry things have been so rough for you lately - Keeping you and Merlin close in my prayers.


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## Muggles

Very lovely photo - I truly hope this works for you all.


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## Dechi

Yesterday was 48 hours after starting on clomipramine (clomicalm) 5mg twice a day. I geve him his morning dose in a pill pocket (i cut one in 4 pieces because his pills are so small) and he spit it out... I had to pick it up from the floor, add peanut butter to it and try again. Fortunately I managed to make him eat it. I'll have to be more careful or this will become a battle every day that I don't want to have !

I had to leave in the morning for some tests. I left at 0745 amd came back at 1515, which means I was gone for 6 1/2 hours. I put his belly band on him and put some classical music on (I read it calms dogs).

When I came back he still had his belly band on (he usually takes it off) and there was no pee on it or anywhere. This is a first. He usually tolerates 3-4 hours but not a lot more. Also, Tamara is not home, she's away with my daughter, so he really was all alone in the house.

When I came back my amp was in protecting more and had turned off, so I don't know how much influence the radio had on him. I suppose it played for 2-3 hours then overheated and turned itself off.

He cried as usual for a few minutes when I came back. 

I think this is good news, although it might just be a fluke or coincidence. It might also be that he realizes that I always come back.

Oh, and a difference with the previous times was that he didn't " use " my slippers. Usually when I leave, he takes one of my slippers from where I always leave them and brings it by his bed, as if to reassure himself with my smell. This time he didn't do this. Which leads me to think that maybe he was confident enough not to need reassurance. This is also a very good sign.

I will not get my hopes up too soon, but I was very happy when I came home and saw that he was a good boy !


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## Muggles

Oh Dechi that is great news - I really hope this is going to work for poor little Merlin this time!


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## Charmed

I am so glad to hear something positive. When my son was growing up, he was diagnosed ADDHA with oppositional attitude.We were always juggling with his medication; adjusting it as he grew. My son was very articulate and would describe the effects of the different medications. Sometimes he said that without medication he felt like he was being bombarded by everything that was happening around him... and it all had equal value. So, the teacher talking got his attention just as much as the ticking of the clock, the buzzing of the neon lights, the rustling of paper, whispering of students, traffic whizzing by outside, and his own heart beating. I imagine that poor Merlin feels the same way about his environment, without the ability to understand what is happening. You have truly been a blessing to the little guy for trying so hard with him for so long. Thank you for taking the time to share his story.


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## lily cd re

I hope this works this time. Be patient (I know you are) and lets keep good thoughts going Merlin's way.


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## Dechi

Charmed said:


> I am so glad to hear something positive. When my son was growing up, he was diagnosed ADDHA with oppositional attitude.We were always juggling with his medication; adjusting it as he grew. My son was very articulate and would describe the effects of the different medications. Sometimes he said that without medication he felt like he was being bombarded by everything that was happening around him... and it all had equal value. So, the teacher talking got his attention just as much as the ticking of the clock, the buzzing of the neon lights, the rustling of paper, whispering of students, traffic whizzing by outside, and his own heart beating. I imagine that poor Merlin feels the same way about his environment, without the ability to understand what is happening. You have truly been a blessing to the little guy for trying so hard with him for so long. Thank you for taking the time to share his story.


Thank you ! Maybe one day I'll write a novel... ;-)

I hope your son has found the right meds for him. He sounds like an intelligent young man.


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## Dechi

lily cd re said:


> I hope this works this time. Be patient (I know you are) and lets keep good thoughts going Merlin's way.


Yes, I will be more patient this time. I quit too fast with this med because I didn't know any better. I was lacking experience. I did right with the Prozac though and I have gained from it. 

Right now my only expectation is that he can stand being alone for the day when I go back to work. The rest will be a bonus.


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## rj16

Good luck, Dechi. I hope the positives keep coming. I've read through a good portion of this thread and I admire your dedication and patience tremendously. I hope it continues to pay off.


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## Poodlebeguiled

Crossing my fingers that this will do the trick for little Merlin. He needs to not feel so frightened all the time. It sounds promising.


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## Dechi

Tomorrow will be day 12 on clomipramine 5mg twice a day. No big changes yet. In fact not much has changed, except I think he might be okay when left alone for more than 3-4 hours. I will know next time he is left alone for that long.

Bad news is when I went to get his meds at the pharmacy, they told me the generic version has been discontinued. They gave me everything they had, which will last me 36 days. The original version is still available, but it's a lot more expensive and too much for me to pay. I'll call a few places and look online to see if I can find it somewhere, but usually when meds get discontinued you can't find them anywhere. Sigh.


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## Poodlebeguiled

Oh dang! That's so awful when they discontinue something. Hurry...you might find some still online. I hope you do because it must be very expensive otherwise. It does sound like Merlin might be making some progress with being alone. I hope it continues.


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## Click-N-Treat

I am sorry the drug has been discontinued. I hope you can find another medication to help him, one that you can afford. Makes my heart hurt. Gentle hugs.


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## Dechi

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Oh dang! That's so awful when they discontinue something. Hurry...you might find some still online. I hope you do because it must be very expensive otherwise. It does sound like Merlin might be making some progress with being alone. I hope it continues.



I am afraid to buy too much and then he has to change meds again... Still thinking about it.


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## Poodlebeguiled

Oh yes! It may turn out you find something better or he may wind up not doing so well on it...and then you're stuck with too much. I forgot to think of that.


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## Dechi

Day 24 on the meds. 5 mg morning and pm. I couldn't find the generic version anywhere, even online. I was pretty amazed to discover that some online canadian pharmacies, which have darn good prices, don't sell to Canada, only the States !

So anyways, I found out that the brand name pills had a reasonable price at my local pharmacy, so I'll order it from them for now and I'll call Walmart to see the price difference.

I buy pocket pills and cut them in 4 sections, I put his pill in and roll it into a very small ball. I do 3-4 weeks in advance so it's pretty convenient. He spit it out a few times but hasn't done it in a while.

As far as change in behavior, not much so far. I will leave him 2 months at this dose and then increase if necessary. 

That's it for now !


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## lily cd re

At least things are no worse and I am glad to see you seem to be having some luck finding this medication at an affordable price. It is too bad that the online pharmacies don't sell in Canada. That makes no sense.


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## Dechi

lily cd re said:


> At least things are no worse and I am glad to see you seem to be having some luck finding this medication at an affordable price. It is too bad that the online pharmacies don't sell in Canada. That makes no sense.


Thank you Lily. Yeah, I know, it doesn't make sense. The ones who do sell in Canada don't have the same low prices as the ones who only sell in the States. I suppose it's a legal obligation to maintain certain prices in Canada.


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## Dechi

Day 58 on the meds. We're starting to see more obvious changes. Merlin is a lot more playful, a little less anxious and more relaxed in general.

Today he was able to go to the park with my daughter. She could never go very far, all he wanted to do was come back to the house. He enjoyed it with me, but only me. When I take him to the park, he has started humping other dogs, mostly females for now. I shouldn't be happy about that but I am. It means he is getting more confident and happy in his skin. He is a good boy so when I say enough, he stops. But I let him just a little bit...

He doesn't flee as much and is able to stay close to us sometimes even if we move. Like when my daughter did yoga today, he lied down right in front of her and stayed there. That's a first too !

So I am pretty happy with him right now. He is even better at the park, he stays closer to me and doesn't wander too much. Last year he was in his teens I guess and he was a little more undisciplined.

Here he is outside today. One of my favorites, he looks so relaxed :

https://youtu.be/wOsNLrWfnQ0

And 2 pictures from today as well, a happy Merlin! You can notice is nose is liver now. When I got him, he was drinking from a cheap metal bucket and his nose had turned black.


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## lily cd re

Very nice!


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## Mfmst

Those medications have transformed him. I remember when it was painful to watch his videos. He never rested, not even for a few seconds. I hope you can find a reasonably priced supplier.


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## Sammy the spoo

What a wonderful update! It looks like Merlin is much much happier . It must take some weight off of your shoulders. Enjoy the lovely weather!


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## Dechi

Mfmst said:


> Those medications have transformed him. I remember when it was painful to watch his videos. He never rested, not even for a few seconds. I hope you can find a reasonably priced supplier.


I haven't been able to find a better price online, but it's okay for now. One day at a time, it's been my motto for a while ! ;-)


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## MollyMuiMa

You go Girl! Merlin is doing SO GOOD!


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## Poodlebeguiled

Oh Dechi, this is such good news. You must be ecstatic. I'd let him hump too as long as the girls don't mind. At least a little...just like you're doing. It is a good sign. He just looks so much happier. My goodness! What a miracle this medication is. Bless his little sweet heart. :angel:


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## galofpink

I've just read through this thread today, Dechi, and what amazing news to such a heart wrenching story! I hope you continue to keep moving forward and I am so impressed with your commitment, persistence and unwavering love and devotion to fight for Merlin! Keep it up!


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## Dechi

galofpink said:


> I've just read through this thread today, Dechi, and what amazing news to such a heart wrenching story! I hope you continue to keep moving forward and I am so impressed with your commitment, persistence and unwavering love and devotion to fight for Merlin! Keep it up!



Thank you, and to everyone else who takes the time to comment and encourage us ! I write about it because it helps me, but also in the hopes that it will help someone else, one day, if they are in a similar situation.


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## lily cd re

I think it takes a lot of courage to talk about a chronic challenge like this. I hope it gives you clarity on how far you've come and hope also it is encouraging to others who may be dealing with a long term issues like Merlin's anxiety.


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## Caddy

Dechi I'm so happy for you and absolutely thrilled for Merlin, he's so lucky to have you.


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## marialydia

Wow, Merlin is transformed. What a lucky, lucky doggie he is to have found you, and congratulations to you for trying again and again until you found the right formula to help him. That last video is wonderful.


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## Dechi

For the record, I had to leave the house for the whole day yesterday, to have my gastric biopsy.

I was expecting a mess when I came home, I figured Tamara would have pooped and peed a few times, and Merlin peed from anxiety as well.

But no, not a single drop of pee and no poo ! This is the first time Merlin stays alone so long and the first time he doesn't make a mess when I'm gone more than 3-4 hours ! Hurray ! I was so tired when I came home, this was quite a relief...


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## Muggles

That is brilliant news! You and Merlin have finally turned a corner, so very very deserved. Really happy to read this Dechi!


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## Click-N-Treat

I am so happy to hear this, and concerned about you. Please rest and feel better.


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## Sammy the spoo

Amazing!!! Congratulations, and I hope this continues!!! *crossing fingers*


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## lily cd re

I hope the news from your biopsy is as good as the finding of no pee or poo when returning home. I hope you got a good night's sleep. I will be thinking about you.


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## Dechi

lily cd re said:


> I hope the news from your biopsy is as good as the finding of no pee or poo when returning home. I hope you got a good night's sleep. I will be thinking about you.


Thank you Lily ! The camera revealed no cealiac disease, polyps or signs of cancer, which is good but not what we were looking for in the first place. My slides are being sent to California for analysis which should be telling me what I am infected with. My doctor thinks there is a good chance it's an enterovirus infection.


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## galofpink

Oh what wonderful news, Dechi; I am overjoyed to hear about Merlin's success and hope it continues! Best wishes for your tests to be as positive as they can be as well!


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## Caddy

Excellent news, hope your test results are also!


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## Poodlebeguiled

Gosh, I hope it's not enterovirus. And if it is, that it can be controlled, which I think it can often times. Crossing my fingers. But glad it's not those other things. And what a nice surprise, after all the worry and doctor appointment...coming home to a clean house was a treat. I wish you all the best and hope it's something else that's not so serious. (((hugs)))


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## Dechi

F/U : I found some dried pee next to my glass patio door a few minutes ago, while cleaning the floors. It's Merlin for sure, a female couldn't squat to pee, not enough place.

Sigh... Will I ever see the end of it ? This morning I went to get the dogs to take them out and I stepped in Tamara's pee. Twice in the same day. I love my pets but sometimes I find that they are soooo much trouble and I wish I never got them. :-(

I have more anxiety these days, stuff having to do with my health, and Merlin feels it. He is a lot more nervous. He's startled more easily and stays away from me more. He is very sensitive and I can't help it, I have my own issues to deal with.


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## Asta's Mom

Dechi, I am praying for you to have the best possible outcome on your test. Poor Merlin, he is such a sensitive baby, hope for the anxiety to ease soonest.


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## LizzysMom

I'm sorry you're going through such an anxious time. And, as much as everyone here loves their pets, I'm sure everyone would agree that your health is of more importance than Tamara's and Merlin's, and you really are justified in putting yourself first right now. You've always taken such marvelous care of them, it will just have to be enough for the time being.


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## Dechi

Update : Merlin has been on Anafranil (generic clomicalm) for a little less than 6 months now (started on march 1st).

Tamara's passing was very hard on him. For the first weeks he wasn't playing at all, mostly sleeping and wanting to be on my lap. Then after maybe 1 month he started to perk up a bit, but at the same time his anxiety rose and he would whine and be frantic every time I left time, even for a few minutes. I still kept the medication the same, and I planned to have a new companion for him. In my mind this dog will never do well as a single dog in the home.

2 weeks ago we went to my parents for their 50th anniversary. It was the second time Merlin had been there. There were lots of people in the house for the event. I had left him in his crate, because people were constantly switching from outside to inside, and I knew he would panic and risk bolting outside. I had tried him and that's exactly what he did. But having a grown son who does what he wants, despite what I ask, he opened Merlin's crate and let him out without telling me or even watching him. When I realized it, Merlin was in the living room, sitting on the sofa with my niece and being petted. I was really mad at my son for what he did but could not reslly take the time to let it get to me. I had to take care of my guests and I clearly wasn't about to make a scene. Since Merlin seemed okay, I let him be. He was anxious, but instead of trying to bolt outside, he was seeking reassurance with the guests, sitting by their legs and waiting to be picked up, as I taught him. Most of them were ackward with him and I had a little bit of fear he would bite and watched him closely, but he never did and tolerated the petting, even if he was really stiff. So in the end it was a good practice for him. I am still mad at my son for what he did, but that's another story.

Since then we have had Victoria join our family. She is the sweetest little thing, with the biggest, kindest soul. They are just starting to bond, but Merlin's anxiety has gone down dramatically and he is a lot more happy.

Merlin has been with us for 2 years now. On some aspects, he is almost like a normal dog. I have come to accept him as he is and don't try to change anymore. But he is changing, and for the best. I don't know if it's just the effect of time, medication or my expectations lowering, but he now feels like a regular dog most of the time. I truly believe that as the years go by he'll improve even more.


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## lily cd re

Thank you for the update Dechi. At the workshop I went to over the weekend there were several conversations that had the theme of "train the dog you have, not the one you thought you wanted." Being in the moment with the dog you have and accepting him or her for what they are is a big step. You and Merlin have come a long way together these last two years.


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## Dechi

F/U 

Merlin went to the vet today to get his rabies shot and discuss about his medications, which needed to be renewed. He is still on clomipramine 5mg twice a day.

Everything was fine at the vet and he is at a good weight, his ideal weight, at 6,1 lbs. They muzzled him to check his ears, he was flinching and I was afraid he had an ear i fection but it was just out of fear. His ears are perfect and I’m doing a good job in that department !

He has reached a plateau with his meds. They lessen his anxiety by about 15%-20% I would say. With them, he doesn’t pee in the house anymore when left alone. It also takes a bit of an edge to his nervousness. Me and the vet talked about the possibility of trying to wean him off, but not before Beckie is fully housetrained, so she doesn’t trigger his urinating in the house. So if I go this route, t would not be before summer.

We also talked about adding another class of meds top of clomipramine, to try and make him more comfortable in his surroundings. I accept him as he is now, so this would be purely for his own sake. But is it worth it since he is functioning relatively well ? He is overall a very good and predictable dog as long as you keep his routine stable,

The vet recommended I tried to have a behaviorist evaluate him at home first, to have an opinion on the severity of his anxiety. And depending on what they say, we would consider adding another med. I think this makes a lot of sense, and I am considering it, maybe in a few months.

So for now it’s status quo. We’ll continue with the same meds since I don’t want to risk him regressing in the peeing department mostly, but also overall.

One good thing, I asked the vet to check his microchip and realized that his chip was registered with EIDAP, which gave CKC’s asdress and number. When I checked with CKC, they only had my address, no phone number on the phone. Online, they only show my name and city... So I payed to register him with EIDAP and had my infos’s in CKC’s database corrected. I can’t imagine what would have happened if I had lost him. 

Now that I know how this works, I will also pay for Becky when the breeder changes the papers to my name (after she gets spayed).

It’s a shame nobody tells us these things. What good is it to microchip if the owner can’t even be found with it ?


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## Asta's Mom

Good that you got the microchip information updated and am glad that you posted an update. If it were me, I would (and do in my own case) get medication to make him more comfortable. I think the evaluation with the behaviorist is a good idea - give you more information on which to base decisions. Keep us in the loop.


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## twyla

I am glad to hear Merlin is doing better, I often think of him because of Gracie, my pom/chi mix who has severe anxiety that turns to aggression, she is on Prozac and Trazodone she is still a little anxious but vastly better. It is so hard to see them so unhappy because they cannot tell you why they acting the way they do.

Merlin and you have had quite the journey, I'm glad he has Beckie and you and I wish you luck on going forth with the behaviorist and whatever else lays ahead


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## lily cd re

I am glad you got the microchip straightened out. The ones our dog's have have to be registered by the owner when activated. I guess different ones have different requirements.

I am glad you were able to have a good talk with the vet and think your plan is sound. I know you have tried tapering down his meds but since his anxiety is likely never to resolve by itself I think lifelong medication is the thing to do and if a behaviorist can make in home suggestions and/or the vet can add a med then I would do those things to make him more able to relax. As with the recent problem Asta's Mom described with insurance it is easy to see that staying on meds consistently does really help.


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