# The case of particolor poodle



## Elfywara

I know you probably talked a lot about this before, but i'm concerned and i'm searching an answer. A true one.

*Why the particolor poodle is disqualified in the conformation ring?* What is the origin of this disqualification?

I have a 3 months 1/2 particolor blue and white standard puppy. He is registered in the CKC. I am on an active dog french forum in Québec, and everybody tell me that my puppy is not a "real" standard poodle, and that all the breeders of particolor poodle are Backyard Breeders, because they breed a disqualified color in standard poodle. I fight all my heart to make them understand that this disqualification is a discrimination one (that is what i think, with all the research i was doing before to find the truth). That's it. They tell me the particolor is disqualified because it brings health problem issues. They think that breeding 2 particolor poodles together will increase problem issues in the puppy. I made a lot of research, and i never heard about that theorie. 

Have you the answer? I send an e-mail to the president of the Poodle Club of Canada today about my concerns. I'm really mad about this. I don't like that people throws rocks on my puppy, i take it personnally! I know i should not, but what they say... Grrrrr, it doesn't make any sense! I want the truth!!!


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## Sookster

You are absolutely right to stand up for your puppy! Parti patterns are completely natural in standard poodles, and many solid bloodlines carry parti genes, since these genes are recessive and can go undetected for generations. 

Parti colored poodles can be shown in the US in UKC shows. Parti colored poodles can be born in a litter from two solid parents, and are no less poodle than their solid parents. 

As to health problems, unfortunately due to poor breeding practices, many parti poodles do have health problems. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the color of the dog (except that its the color that makes them attractive to puppy millers and byb's because they are "flashy" and sell well) and everything to do with poor breeding practices. There has never been any genetic evidence that any parti patterns are associated with particular health problems in the way that other colors in some breeds are. 

For example, white boxers almost always being deaf, double-merle causing lots of problems in collies, these are legitimate concerns and those colors are, as a result, considered a disqualification to discourage breeders from trying to produce such colors, and thus leading to more health problems. 

If it were accepted that parti coloring is a natural occurrence and variation of the poodle coat, then more "good" breeders would be breeding them. Now, as I'm sure you are now aware, there are a lot of good breeders out there working really hard to preserve the parti coloring and to produce wonderful, healthy dogs. It's just going to take time.


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## PaddleAddict

The particolors are not banned by AKC and CKC (I assume you mean Canadian Kennel Club) because they cause health issues. It was preference decided on a long time ago by the breed clubs in the U.S. and Canada.

It is true that there are a lot of not-so-great particolor poodle breeders out there. This is simply becasue some people like to capitalize on "rare" colors in breeds and particolor, since it is not accepted in the show ring, could be considered "rare" I guess (or a disqualification, just depends on how you look at it). Some people just breed for the "rare" color paying little attention to health, temperament, conformation, etc. These types of breeders are breeding to make money, pure and simple. 

However, there ARE some good, responsible breeders breeding particolor poodles. I just think you have to look a little harder for those breeders. Here in the U.S., the United Kennel Club accepts particolor poodles in the show ring and there are reputable breeders showing their particolors in UKC.

Because your poodle is particolor does not make it any less a poodle. Yes, it is disqualified in the show ring, but it is still a purebred poodle.


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## Yaddaluvpoodles

There have been recent changes within the Poodle Club of Canada's policies regarding parti coloured poodles. I think you will be pleasantly surprised!

As for health issues. EVERY poodle line has health issues. A few years ago, there were a few.. I'm going to refer to them as "outlaw" breeders, which is going to make everyone here batty... but oh well, who fell in love with the striking colors and patterns of parti's. There have always been some dogs of color produced in solid litters because those genetics are widely spread. However it was considered unacceptable for breeder's to perpetuate those and most breeders didn't even want to acknowledge that they had produced a parti. Anyhow, the "outlaw" breeder's found that there was a whole lot of interest in the striking colours and patterns of parti's. They carefully studied pedigrees and obtained dogs wherever they could, then they bred these dogs together to get gorgeous pups, over and over again, son to mother, father to daughter, threw in grandparents and uncles too. When we talk about the inbreeding in regards to the Wycliffe dogs.. well, they don't have anything over the inbreeding that took place with the parti's. AND.. the next part of the story is.. people loved them, enough to pay several thousands of dollars for them. Big bucks tend to seal lips as far as health issues and motivate the continued breeding of dogs who have produced health issues. Having tracked health issues for a number of years, I believe that when it comes to parti poodles, the number of health issues that are reported to Poodle Health Registry are about 1 in every 25. Really. 

There are healthy parti poodles out there. The health issues in the parti lines is not associated with their color/pattern genetics. It IS associated with two things: 
Bad breeding practices
People (yes, pet owners as well as breeder's) not registering their dogs health issues with Poodle Health Registry.

If all of the pet owners who have had poodles with health issues would register those health issues, it would lay a much clearer path for breeder's as far as low risk breedings. There are plenty of ethical breeders out there. There are plenty of ethical breeders involved with parti poodles. But due to the actions of a few, things are ugly health wise and unfortunately, most parti poodles are closely related. There are now breeders who are deliberately and intentionally working with parti's to try to limit health issues (just as there are breeder's doing the same thing with solids).

Also, just because a poodle appears to be solid, doesn't mean that it doesn't carry parti genes, so for someone to look at a poodle and condemn it because it have spots is... well pure ignorance.

I don't know how many people remember the era of Kaiser? JC Pioneer'Jc Pioneer Poodles Ch. JC Pioneer Kaisers Kaiser?
Drop dead gorgeous, silver boy, multiple show winner. Kaiser's dam is Pioneer's Dynamite Lady JC. I just looked and am not seeing photos of her, but I can assure you all that she is a strikingly gorgeous silver and white parti poodle.

Any poodle out there end up with a health issue it doesn't matter the color or the pattern. Some lines are lower than others for health risk. We are all (poodle owners and breeders) in this together. It's past time that we quit being poodle snobs and started supporting and encouraging each other in our endeavors. It's also.. way past time that for the well being of our breed, we all started utilizing Poodle Health Registry......


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## LEUllman

Just curious -- Were partis allowed in AKC (and other clubs where they are now banned) once upon a time, then only later disqualified? Or has the ban always been in effect?

AFAIC, partis are awesome, and the banishment of what is clearly an ancestral poodle color strikes me as purely arbitrary at best, or the result of some now antique predudice and/or politicing at worst.


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## Keithsomething

the Parti has always been a disqualification in the American breed standard (first published in 1901 and adopted from the English standard) there is an old german breed standard floating around that accepts black and white markings. It's an interesting read for anyone interested...BUT I'd be more apt to believe spaniels were introduced into retrievers bringing with them the parti markings than to believe that the parti markings were always in the original foundation of our breed. (Though spaniels were probably among the founding breeds in standard poodles)

American Book of the Dog 1891

^downloadable version of the book.

but here is the standard.



> JUDGING STANDARDS
> "The American Book of the Dog" published in 1891.
> The Russian Type: The usual color is Black but sometimes white, or black and white. They are rather leggy dogs; the head long and wedge-shaped with very little stop. The eyes, in the best specimens, dark red, but many otherwise good dogs have yellowish eyes. The ears are set on rather high and lie down close the cheeks. The legs are straight and muscular, the feet rather splayed and webbed half way down to the toes. The coat is long, course, and almost wirey, showing little inclination to curl and none at all to cord.
> The German Poodle is a powerful compactly built dog, with a deep narrow brisket, in shape not unlike that of a Greyhound; a strong loin, slightly arched, with a good square back. Powerful hindquarters to propel him through the water; round compact feet with the toes webbed all the way to the nail. The head is wedge shaped but shows more stop and more cheeks than the Russian, is very broad and almost flat between the ears, giving the dog great brain capacity, with the sense-bump or occiput strongly marked, The eyes should be rather small, placed far apart and should show the greatest intelligence and sprightliness. A stupid expression in a Poodle should condemn it at once. (sorry I have to LOL!) The ears should be long and pendulous, set rather low on the skull, the leather reaching to the tip of the nose when stretched out, but hanging along the neck when the head is erect. The lips should be close and thin, barely covering the incisors. The nose, in black specimens should be coal-black, in white ones a dark pinkish brown. The neck should be bony, muscular, and so set into the long sloping shoulders as to enable the dog, when swimming, to carry whatever he is retrieving well above the water. In color, the German Poodle is black, white, black and white, and occasionally liver colored, though the last should always be looked upon with suspicion as showing a strain of Spaniel blood. In black dogs the eye should be a rich dark red, and in white ones a dark brown. In coat the German Poodle differs from every other dog, inasmuch as the hairs should felt or cord in long strings, slightly knotty or wavey, and of the thickness of a crow quill. The entire coat should, from the base of the skull to the root of the tail, divide evenly down the back, showing a clearly defined parting. The coat should cord all over the body, except in the eyebrows, moustache, and imperial, which should be straight and even without wave, and of a glossier texture than the rest of the body. on the head the cords should fall away from the center, leaving a well-defined crown, and should have no tendency to stand erect-like those of a water Spaniel. The tail which is usually docked, should be perfectly straight and carried at an angle of about 70 degrees with the back. Many Poodles have curled tails, and an otherwise good dog should not be debarred for that fault.
> The French Poodle, or Caniche, is like the German Poodle, though generally a smaller and more slightly built dog. The colors are the same, and solid colors are deemed absolutely essential for a good dog. The skull should show a well defined stop, very broad across the ears, and with a pronounced dome. The eye should be larger in proportion than the German Poodle; should be a clear dark red in black dogs, of a dark brown in white specimens, and without any inclination to weep. the ears should be set on rather high, the leather seldom reaching the tip of the nose. the neck should be moderately long, and the shoulders rather upright, the barrel rather well-ribbed up with strong arched loins. The feet should be round, slightly splayed, with the toes webbed down to the nails. The legs should be long and muscular; the hind ones are usually straighter then those of the German dog therby giving the dog a proud, though rather stilty, action when walking. the coat, all over the body, should separate into tightly curled ringlets but with no tendency to cord.
> The Barbet is a miniature Caniche, though the head is always larger in proportion and is inclined to be too round. The ears are long and pendulous, and should reach the tip of the nose. The color should be white, although many good dogs are seen with fawn markings, especially on the ears and back. The legs are strong, well set under the body, with the hind ones, as in the Caniche, a little too straight for real beauty. The body should be strong an well-ribbed up, giving the dog a firm cobby appearance. A long weak loin is a great blemish. The tail is long, slightly curled and usually docked. The eyes should be large, full and nearly perfectly black and should show little inclination to weep. The coat should, as in the Caniche, show light ringlets but at the same time be somewhat fluffier with a beautifully white and glossy appearance. A good dog should not excedd 6 1/2 pounds and as much less as is compatible with a good shape, and should not stand much over 8 inches at the shoulder.


(thank you to the man who did all the research on this topic and posted it online for all of us!!)


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## zyrcona

Keithsomething said:


> there is an old german breed standard floating around that accepts black and white markings.


In Germany, black-and-white parti (Harlekin) and black phantom (Schwarz-loh) are acceptable colours for the show ring.

The main problem that partis (and to a lesser extent, the other non-solid colours) face is that there are a limited number of dogs around that are parti or are known to carry parti, and a great many of the people who breed them have no marketing tactic other than the pups being parti, and so they try to maximise the number of parti puppies in each litter because the solid ones are difficult for them to sell. This means they breed only like to like rather than crossing out to solids, and this causes the gene pool to collapse in on itself. Many parti dogs have high COIs or the same ancestors repeated several times over, and any dangerous recessives they carry will tend to be expressed. The health conditions in many parti lines are not because of the gene for parti, but merely the way a lot of people are breeding them.


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## Quossum

I posted about this topic on another thread; here is my post for those who didn't see it before!

...

I have a rather huge old tome, The Book of the Poodle, by Anna Katherine Nichols, which in its history section on "Earlier Standards of the Ideal Poodle" notes that both the Russian and the German standards allowed for white and black dogs (partis), while the French standard specified solid colors. Later the book discusses a split in the '30's as the Poodle Club of America had to decide whether to go with the German or the French standard, "although it was the German type that had been dominant in the United States previous to that time" (Nichols 36). The text notes that coat and clips were an area of difference between the standards. The decision was ultimately made to go with the Anglo-French standard, and there was a rush of dogs imported from England who would have a better chance to compete under the new standard.

This is the most detail I have ever been able to find in regards to the decision to allow only solid colored dogs. My internet hunting has turned up nothing even so specific as that, usually saying the decision to make multi-colored a disqualifying fault was made "for arbitrary reasons." I was particularly interested in any functional reason why solid dogs should be preferred, based on their water-retriever roots, but have found nothing of the kind. Just a political decision based upon the particular aesthetics of those in charge and in the majority at the time. I would welcome any further information about the subject. 

So think, if politics has swung another way, we might have had multi-colored poodles from the beginning! They are historically legitimate and there's no real reason to eradicate them from the breed. Furthermore, they are acceptable in more open-minded (dare I say historically cognizant?) registries than AKC or FCI.

...

A poodle is a poodle; color is just gilding the lily. 

--Q

Reference:
Nicholas, Anna Katherine., Hayes Blake. Hoyt, Wendell J. Sammet, and Joseph P. Sayres. The Book of the Poodle. [Redhill]: T.F.H., 1982. Print.


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## LEUllman

Thanks, Quossum! That is some fascinating stuff! So our poodles really are "French," it seems -- or at least they have followed that standard since the '30s. Now I'd love to see some old pictures showing the difference between a "French" and "German" poodle. The more I learn about the breed, the more questions I end up with. :smile:


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## sarahmurphy

Spike's sire is clearly a blue and white parti. His mother is pure white. He is blue, as was most of the litter. 

As has been mentioned, too many people placed coloring/cash over health, and the result is dicey health and shape on too many parti's. 

Don't think of him as an outlaw, think of him as an opportunity to educate people about the beauty of a recessive gene showing in a healthy dog! 

sarah


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## Keithsomething

Quossum one reason that I have heard relating to fuctionality was by a PWD breeder. She said that in PWD's there is a newer trend towards breeding mostly white dogs and that this was against the original intent of the breed because it made the dogs more recognizable to predators...now PWD's are allowed to come in the "parti" coloring (I'm not sure what or if they have a different term for the marking) so I'm not sure if this has any basis for the standard poodle...but it's thought provoking to say the least haha

Also I've flipped through the Book of the Poodle and would LOVE to own my own copy of it!


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## Quossum

Keithsomething said:


> Quossum one reason that I have heard relating to fuctionality was by a PWD breeder. She said that in PWD's there is a newer trend towards breeding mostly white dogs and that this was against the original intent of the breed because it made the dogs more recognizable to predators...now PWD's are allowed to come in the "parti" coloring (I'm not sure what or if they have a different term for the marking) so I'm not sure if this has any basis for the standard poodle...but it's thought provoking to say the least haha


This is interesting, even if it doesn't make much sense to our modern sensibilities (as do many aspects of early breed history!). It just seems like If there was a functional bias for color, then *either* solid dark / black or solid light / white would be preferred...but not both. What, white poodles are for hunting during the day, black ones are for hunting at night? Lol 

I'm leaning towards the preference for "solidness" having no relation to function whatsoever, but more of a style thing, and maybe a sense of masking the spaniel influence that played a part in the breed development, making the breed more distinctive-looking. Kind of the same reason Irish Setters moved to solid coloration, firmly breeding away from the red and white coloration--which is now making a comeback as its own breed! 

I wouldn't like for multi-colored poodles to become a separate breed, but wouldn't mind separate classes if it will let them get their paws in the door. Letting them show AKC could help dedicated parti breeders improve their lines, too. Yes, some of the good parti breeders out there do breed to solids from time to time (Sugarfoot's grandsire is an AKC champion; there are many further back on both sides), as well they should.



> Also I've flipped through the Book of the Poodle and would LOVE to own my own copy of it!


It is quite an amazing book, even for being so old now. Goes really deep into the bloodlines and such. 

--Q


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## outwest

There is a bit of truth to the health problems because the merle gene is associated with health issues and when you breed some of these colors over and over you can get blue merle dogs. There are some health issues with anyone who breeds indiscriminately and to those who breed only for color without taking into account health. There are many good parti breeders now who are trying to improve the conformation and health of their dogs, so I don't believe partis, if purchased from a reputable breeder, have any more health issues than any other poodle (but this is nothing I can prove, only my feelings). 

sarahmurphy, it sounds like your puppies mother did not have the partifactor. Partifactor is recessive and both parents have to have it. 

I was very antiparti for a long time. To me it was only a hairs breadth from doodle breeders, especially when many of them want more depending on the color of the dog. I became more educated on partis. I wouldn't own one myself, but I have come to appreciate many of them. Color has nothing to do with personality. 

People have not been very accepting of my Bonnie, who has a mini in her line three generations back (8 years ago) and is also bred to agility type european poodles (more muscular, slightly shorter legged). Because I know I bought what I wanted, I also became angry. Mostly, it is ignorance, but also people not agreeing with the types of breeding done that produced Bonnie. 

People are entitiled to their opinions, but not entitled to be mean to you about your puppy. Stick up for your puppy! You bought him, you love him. Yes, he can be registered- he IS a poodle! I am sorry so many people are being negative about him. There are lots of parti lovers on this forum. Maybe you should stop visiting the other forum.


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## Yaddaluvpoodles

If the merle gene was ever in any of the poodle ancestors of old, it is believed by most to have been totally irradicated from the breed.

While I can't prove it, I don't know of too many people who aren't convinced that the merles we are seeing now days came from deliberate and undisclosed outcrosses to different breeds. 

For those who don't know--merle genes are associated with all sorts of nastiness. I have very strong feelings (as does every responsible breeder I know) that these genetics should NOT be perpetuated within standard poodles. They are detrimental. Believe me.. when all is said and done, we would be much better off incorporating the genetics from the nearest doodle down the road, then dealing with the hazards the merle genetics present. (yeah.. I know.. I encourage tolerance, but I draw the line at the merle genes). 

For the most part, people don't like anything that is different.. from their preferences. When someone has something different, rather than appreciating it, respecting that person's individual choices, we (humans) tend to point fingers and condemn.

That poodle has spots (BAD POODLE!)
That Standard poodle has a mini three generations back in it's pedigree (how horrible!)
And Darla.. Likes BIG Poodles :ahhhhhTHAT'S SO WRONG!!!!! FOR SO MANY REASONS....)

Accepting differences and respecting others individuality starts with each one of us. Am I going to get over my merle prejudice? Probably not anytime soon. It doesn't mean that they aren't wonderful dogs and they sure don't know or care that they are merles, I wish their owners well and tremendous satisfaction with them, but their genetics.. terrifies me.
Darla


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## outwest

Yes, merles are scary to me, too. Luckily, there aren't too many kooks breeding them...yet.


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## only me

Partis are very unusual here in the UK. My parti standard Pepe is 14 weeks old, and every walk we are stopped by people admiring him and, of course, asking what he is! I explain to them about partis, and most people are very interested to find that poodles aren't all solid colours, but I can sense that some people are quite doubtful. I can imagine them going home and saying something like 'I met this poor woman who's been swindled and thinks she's bought a poodle.'!


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## zyrcona

Yaddaluvpoodles said:


> If the merle gene was ever in any of the poodle ancestors of old, it is believed by most to have been totally irradicated from the breed.


Merle is dominant, unlike the genes for parti, phantom, sable, and brindle. Merle genes can't be carried like recessives or hidden by incompatible coat colours. If it ever was there, it isn't now or we'd be able to see it. Barring an extremely unlikely chance mutation, any merle poodle is almost certainly of dubious ancestry.


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## sarahmurphy

only me said:


> Partis are very unusual here in the UK. My parti standard Pepe is 14 weeks old, and every walk we are stopped by people admiring him and, of course, asking what he is! I explain to them about partis, and most people are very interested to find that poodles aren't all solid colours, but I can sense that some people are quite doubtful. I can imagine them going home and saying something like 'I met this poor woman who's been swindled and thinks she's bought a poodle.'!


We get that because we keep Spike in a puppy cut, and he is friendly, not snooty or any other "Poodle" stereotype....! He's obviously not a doodle - (They are SO cute, such GOOD DOGS! here...) I've had people question his poodleness, and even really say to my face that they think I might have gotten a different breed than poodle by mistake, but they can't really tell me what breed he might really be... Most are just so surprised that he is not a snooty stereotypical poodle that they need to spend more time with him and we have a hard time getting to a destination... 

Some people are nasty. Everyone has an opinion. I have said to people, when they've made comments about my dog, and about my children, "I appreciate that you have an opinion, and I respect your right to have it, but the way you have voiced it is a little offensive/hurtful/whatever it is, to me." 
You have the right to call someone out for being rude/hurtful/etc., just as they have the right to be rude/hurtful/etc. 


By the way, I have never met a snooty stereotypical poodle, but I have met a few dog owners, of various breeds, that meet that stereotype head on!....

sarah


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## peppersb

Yaddaluvpoodles said:


> I don't know how many people remember the era of Kaiser? JC Pioneer's Kaiser?
> Drop dead gorgeous, silver boy, multiple show winner. Kaiser's dam is Pioneer's Dynamite Lady JC. I just looked and am not seeing photos of her, but I can assure you all that she is a strikingly gorgeous silver and white parti poodle.


My sweet girl Cammie is one of JC Pioneer's Kaiser's many great grandchildren, so I took a special interest in your mention of him. 

Kaiser's breeders give this very interesting description of their interest in parti poodles. Love their determination to breed the color that they like!

"Why parti coloring? Why choose to buck the system and breed for a color that the Poodle Club of America (PCA) has determined to be a disqualification? A pretty simple answer comes to mind. If you look into the history of the poodle you will find this color at its core and, therefore, a naturally occurring part of the original poodle gene pool. It was decided by some to breed away from this color; however, for us here at Pioneer, we feel a poodle is a poodle no matter what coat color. And because we find their unique coloring to our liking, we decided to try and revive the quality and beauty of this colorful companion. We started with a good foundation bitch from a very consistent, type-producing line and brought into the package the parti genes. We knew this would be an every-other-generation process for a while, meaning it would take us longer to produce our partis, but we were determined to produce dogs of which we could be proud. The first litter produced our gene carrier who, in turn, was bred to a parti, and that litter was our first parti litter." 

Above quote is from this page: Jc Pioneer Poodles About us and How to Contact us


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## happybooker1

*A few links on early history of Parti's*

Parti Color Poodles

PartiPoodle History

Huxtable The Poodle | Poodle Blog | Toy Parti Poodle: History of the Parti Poodle

Parti Poodle Information


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## Jacknic

sarahmurphy said:


> Spike's sire is clearly a blue and white parti. His mother is pure white. He is blue, as was most of the litter.
> sarah


Here is a photo of my parti boy, his SIRE, I beleive is a littermate to your dog Sarah, the sire is a solid blue parti factor male out of my AKC champion bred white female. I have done a lot of solid to parti breeding to improve the structure on my parti dogs. This was taken last weekend at his first UKC shows and he did awesome at seven months old.
http://


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## Jacknic

Forgot to add he is half brother to "Derby' my avatar, and his name is Jacknic's Get Off Of My Cloud -- "Mick', his sire is UCh Jacknic's Rolling Stone --"Jaggar ".
Here is his off show side.
http://


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## petitpie

Gorgeous dog!


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## Jacknic

Let me also add that I am not breeding to just ANY solid color dogs, I am breeding to dogs with beautiful conformation with AKC, championed, health tested pedigrees. "Sugar' the grand dam to this puppy, when bred to my AKC Ch boy produced AmCH UGrand CH Jacknic's Big Love who finished with four majors, earning three from puppy class, went third in 9-12mth class at PCA and has won two UCK multi breed Best in Show and a UKC poodle speicalty BIS. I'm adding I showed him myself to his last points including a major.
http://


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## spindledreams

Ya lost me when you said


> There is a bit of truth to the health problems because the merle gene is associated with health issues and when you breed some of these colors over and over you can get blue merle dogs.


Now my understanding is that the merle gene is a semi lethal *dominate*. Sable merles may not look like they have the gene but a black or liver(brown or red) dog should show some signs. And even those sables may have their eye color effected even if the color doesn't show up much in their coat. If we are talking the same gene I am surprised it exists in Poodles just as I was stunned to read about brindles, another dominate gene. (edited oops seems I am mistaken about the brindle so strike that remark please)

Wry grin guess I can see and understand recessives popping up but have a hard time when hearing about dominate colors "popping up".


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## zyrcona

spindledreams said:


> If we are talking the same gene I am surprised it exists in Poodles just as I was stunned to read about brindles, another dominate gene.


Brindle is a recessive gene. It's dominant (nitpicking, but it's correctly called a _dominant gene_, not a 'dominate' gene) to clear sable and clear phantom, which is perhaps what you were thinking of. In order to express, brindle needs to be paired up with another brindle gene or the ky gene responsible for clear sable and phantom. Legitimate brindle poodles (either entire brindle on a sable background or as phantoms with grubby marks on them) do occur, and the gene can be carried for many generations without expressing or hidden by ee coat colours.


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## sarahmurphy

Jacknic said:


> Here is a photo of my parti boy, his SIRE, I beleive is a littermate to your dog Sarah, the sire is a solid blue parti factor male out of my AKC champion bred white female. I have done a lot of solid to parti breeding to improve the structure on my parti dogs. This was taken last weekend at his first UKC shows and he did awesome at seven months old.
> http://


Spike is not quite 10 months old - his litter mates should not be siring anything yet! (Maybe his sire's litter mate?) Auntie Gloria at Tintlet would know for sure - I'd be hazarding a guess, at best...! 

sarah


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## Jacknic

LOL You are absolutely correct Sarah, I was "guessing" because of where you live! "Jaggar" is over two and completely health tested.


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## spindledreams

Grin yes I did go look up brindle genetics after I saw your post. And yep I should have double checked that spelling on that word. At least I did remember part of it correctly. Whew I was wondering if I had all my dog colors remembered incorrectly. I have more working knowledge of rabbits and cats then dogs. Too lazy to want the work that puppies involves to raise them right and I have nothing but admiration for those that do breed.

I have actually seen a brindle poodle, she is the half sister to the blue puppy we just got as a pet. She was a rather neat looking dog.


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## Jjadm555

Go Parti Poodles!!
If you look at some pictures of poodles in some 1800 photos, they were parti colors. Over time they breed to be solid. It still boggles my mind why AKC doesn't recognize a breed in its original colors.


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## TrixieTreasure

Jjadm555 said:


> View attachment 287425
> 
> 
> Go Parti Poodles!!
> If you look at some pictures of poodles in some 1800 photos, they were parti colors. Over time they breed to be solid. It still boggles my mind why AKC doesn't recognize a breed in its original colors.


Beautiful dog!!

Thank goodness the dog world has come a long way with the Partis and the Phantoms than from 15 + years ago. When I got my first Poodle in 1977, he was a Phantom, although, I had no idea what a Phantom was until much ( much) later. I just knew that I loved his markings, and wanted another one in color just like him. I do remember when looking for another Phantom in the early 1980's, I called this local Poodle breeder, and asked if she had any ( and I described the color and markings). She yelled into the phone that she would NEVER have "one of those kind" in her litters, and if she did, she would put it to sleep. I was SO distraught and shocked by what I was hearing that I hung up on her! I absolutely couldn't believe that ANYONE would put a dog to sleep just because it was different! That was such a traumatic thing for me to hear that, even to this day, I remember that lady's name. Even now, when I speak about it, I get upset.

In 1999, when I signed onto the Internet, I started posting on some dog message boards, and even THEN, so many people were talking badly about the Partis and Phantoms. The only good thing was, most breeders by then were no longer killing them. Thankfully now, and especially in the last 13 years, more and more breeders are breeding for them. But as with any breeder, you must choose a good breeder who does health testing on her dogs, and has the dogs best interest at heart. They are NOT designer dogs, and no one should pay outlandish prices to be able to get a Parti or Phantom.


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## Jacknic

Wanted to share an adult photo of Micky. He's now three & half YO, he was the #1 Multi Colored Standard poodle with UKC for 2013 & 2014. Now he's just a bum- LOL He's an awesome bum and deserves his rest. UKCGrCh Jacknic's Got Off Of My Cloud -- Micky[URL=http://s458.photobucket.com/user/kathyesio/media/025_zps88rj5idw.jpg.html][/URL]


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## patk

gorgeous gorgeous boy.


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## TrixieTreasure

He's gorgeous!! I've always loved the Parti Standards! So elegant looking.


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## Jjadm555

He is so handsome!! He is the most beautiful bum I've ever seen! Lol






I love my party too. They are so silly and gorgeous !


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## mullyman

TrixieTreasure said:


> Beautiful dog!!
> 
> Thank goodness the dog world has come a long way with the Partis and the Phantoms than from 15 + years ago. When I got my first Poodle in 1977, he was a Phantom, although, I had no idea what a Phantom was until much ( much) later. I just knew that I loved his markings, and wanted another one in color just like him. I do remember when looking for another Phantom in the early 1980's, I called this local Poodle breeder, and asked if she had any ( and I described the color and markings). She yelled into the phone that she would NEVER have "one of those kind" in her litters, and if she did, she would put it to sleep. I was SO distraught and shocked by what I was hearing that I hung up on her! I absolutely couldn't believe that ANYONE would put a dog to sleep just because it was different! That was such a traumatic thing for me to hear that, even to this day, I remember that lady's name. Even now, when I speak about it, I get upset.
> 
> In 1999, when I signed onto the Internet, I started posting on some dog message boards, and even THEN, so many people were talking badly about the Partis and Phantoms. The only good thing was, most breeders by then were no longer killing them. Thankfully now, and especially in the last 13 years, more and more breeders are breeding for them. But as with any breeder, you must choose a good breeder who does health testing on her dogs, and has the dogs best interest at heart. They are NOT designer dogs, and no one should pay outlandish prices to be able to get a Parti or Phantom.


Good lord, Kathy, that turns my stomach just reading it. There's a special place in Hell reserved for people like her. Those poor babies.
MULLY


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## mullyman

Jacknic said:


> [/URL][/URL]



Wow!! What a gorgeous animal you have there. Is that the Aerosmith Joe Perry edition? Fabulous!!
MULLY


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