# I wonder if too much meat is not too good



## My babies (Aug 14, 2012)

I wonder if too much meat is not too good for them? They both LOVE meats. I tried to cut back a little. I use to give them meat for every meal. In the pass I would mix together canned food, dry food, and fresh meats. But they both hate canned food. I tried all kinds of high quality can food, but I haven't found a brand that they like. They tried Blue Buffalo, Merrick, Nature's Variety Instinct, Wellness, Halo, AvoDerm, Holistic, Innova, NutroMax, and the list goes on.They would try to pick out the meat and sometimes the kibbles and leave the wet food. Now in the morning they get Acana dry food (which they only take a few bites). In the afternoon they get fresh cooked meat either chicken breast, turkey breast, beef, pork, duck, or lamb. For dinner they get the Acana dry food again and sometimes with fresh meat. Then some treats and fresh fruits at night.

Home made bite sized treats or sometimes I give as their breakfast. They hate wet can food, so I mix it with turkey breast and salmon and bake it. They love it, which I think is weird cuz they hate can food and they hate salmon. But they love this.









Baking lamb and turkey jerkies for their afternoon treats this week









The oven is full for this week!









Do u think that they r getting too much meat? Is it bad for them? They both LOVE the meats so much. They really don't like doggie food but is eating the Acana a little more than the Merrick's that they were on. They r not overweight. So is it ok to continue feeding them like this?


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

My babies said:


> They hate wet can food, so I mix it with turkey breast and salmon and bake it. They love it, which I think is weird cuz they hate can food and they hate salmon. But they love this.


The foods look lovely, like posh cocktail party food for poodles lol. But the dog food has been prepared to contain the right nutritional balance just as it is, and if you cook it you might cause this balance to change, which means that if you feed your dogs this over a long time, they could end up with a nutritional deficiency. If they don't like the wet food, why not just feed them the dry food that they do like? If you want to feed them home-made cooked foods, there are Internet resources and specialist vets who will be able to help you. It's OK to give them meat and safe fruits as treats, but if you give them salmon or other fish that spends all or part of its life in fresh water, make sure it's either been thoroughly cooked or stored in a deep freeze for at least a fortnight, as salmonids can harbour a parasite that is harmful to dogs.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

No, this is not OK. This is a serious problem. You are not feeding a safe or healthy diet. What you are feeding is terribly deficient in calcium. Calcium isn't only about bones, but it regulates muscle contractions, so calcium deficiency can lead to heart trouble and seizures.

YOU are making your dogs fussy. Choose a quality kibble or learn to make a safe and balanced raw diet. Offer a measured portion twice daily for 10 minutes. Take it away after 10 minutes. NO TREAT OR SNACKS. Your dogs will not starve themselves, they will eat when they are hungry enough. Dogs are physically capable of long periods of fasting (up to 17 *days* in medical studies). They will probably hold out long enough to scare you.  Always call your vet when you are concerned about their health.

You are literally spoiling your dogs to death.


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## My babies (Aug 14, 2012)

tortoise said:


> No, this is not OK. This is a serious problem. You are not feeding a safe or healthy diet. What you are feeding is terribly deficient in calcium. Calcium isn't only about bones, but it regulates muscle contractions, so calcium deficiency can lead to heart trouble and seizures.
> 
> YOU are making your dogs fussy. Choose a quality kibble or learn to make a safe and balanced raw diet. Offer a measured portion twice daily for 10 minutes. Take it away after 10 minutes. NO TREAT OR SNACKS. Your dogs will not starve themselves, they will eat when they are hungry enough. Dogs are physically capable of long periods of fasting (up to 17 *days* in medical studies). They will probably hold out long enough to scare you.  Always call your vet when you are concerned about their health.
> 
> You are literally spoiling your dogs to death.


Even if they r eating some kibbles? They hate wet food but will eat some kibbles. I'm trying to just let them eat Acana kibbles for breakfast and dinner even if it means they r only eating a little bit. Last night they both refused to eat the kibbles. But I didn't give in. They went to bed hungry. This morning they both ate a decent amt of their kibbles. Should I buy some sort of supplements? Any suggestion on brand? Should I crush up some egg shells and give them some each day?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

You are probably OK adding up to a quarter of their diet as meat and vegetables - more than that and, as T says, you need to be thinking about how to ensure that their diet is balanced, particularly with calcium. But it is not at all difficult to do - you need to understand the basic principles of how much calcium to add per pound of meat, and the best sources to use, but once you have that figured then you can feed them the meals that they love, and that you obviously enjoy preparing. They will probably never want to eat kibble again, though - who would live on muesli when cordon bleu might be available?!

A very good source of information on supplementing kibble with home cooked, and preparing home cooked diets is DogAware.com: Diet Options for Dogs


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## shadow mommy (Jan 6, 2012)

wow...toy poodles are very picky naturally but I can only imagine how picky they will be getting fed gourmet meals like this. I would hold out to!!! Looks good though...your food preparation skills are very nice


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

I too am a little concerned about the lack of calcium. A couple bites of meat/veggie a day is fine, but it sounds like they are eating a lot, especially considering they are toys. I personally would cut back on the treats and make them eat kibble as their main diet. OR if they love meat so much, go ahead and learn about raw or homemade diets and take them completely off kibble. It looks like you already make them a lot of food so making their regular meals wouldn't be a huge change.


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## papoodles (Jun 27, 2011)

You certainly can add fresh or cooked foods to your dogs' diet, and they'll be better off for it too. 
If you are worried over the amount that you can add without a problem, have a look at this site.
DogAware.com: Adding Fresh Foods to Commercial Dog Food

"One of the best ways to improve the quality of whatever diet you feed is to add fresh foods. If you feed at least three-quarters commercial food, you don't need to worry too much about balancing the foods you add, though variety is always better than always feeding the same thing. The more fresh food you feed, the more important it is to provide a variety of foods in appropriate proportions in order to maintain a balanced diet."


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

You might find the info and recipes in this book useful:

Pitcairns-Complete-Guide-Natural-Health


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## My babies (Aug 14, 2012)

shadow mommy said:


> wow...toy poodles are very picky naturally but I can only imagine how picky they will be getting fed gourmet meals like this. I would hold out to!!! Looks good though...your food preparation skills are very nice


LOL. Actually I don't know how to cook at all. Been with hubby for 15 yrs and never once made a meal. I only do instant noodles for myself. But my babies r so picky and I was googling all sorts of food to try to get them to eat. I can't do the homemade meals because I really don't know how to cook. I was thinking that if I hold it out and made them eat the kibbles for breakfast and dinner, then they would be OK with the meats for lunch and fruits for late night snack. Its hard tho cuz sometimes when they refuse to eat their kibbles I get concerned and give them my little baked bites.


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## sophiebonita (Jul 10, 2012)

You could try a premade raw diet (it wouldn't be too bad cost-wise with little toys); my 3m/o mpoo wouldn't eat anything. Now she goes nuts for her premade raw. Plus you know it's complete and balanced and meets AAFCO (I think that's right) standards. Just a suggestion that was an EASY fix for my picky eater!! Good luck 

Oh the 2 brands I've toyed with so far are Natures Variety and Stella & Chewy's. In the frozen section 


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## My babies (Aug 14, 2012)

Thank u Everyone for the advice and websites. I really appreciate it. I'm gonna give them some tough love for breakfast and dinner. But I can't take the meat away from them. They love it too much. It does seem like I'm giving them a lot of food, but I'm really not. It's just lots of different varieties but in small portions. I love them sooooo much and just want the best for them. Thanks again!


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

My babies said:


> Thank u Everyone for the advice and websites. I really appreciate it. I'm gonna give them some tough love for breakfast and dinner. But I can't take the meat away from them. They love it too much. It does seem like I'm giving them a lot of food, but I'm really not. It's just lots of different varieties but in small portions. I love them sooooo much and just want the best for them. Thanks again!


 Sounds like a plan.  Just remember that 25% of a tpoos diet isn't much. My tpoo pup eats 1/3-1/2 a cup a day, so 25% is around 2 T. A few bites really.


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## Doggroomer812 (May 4, 2011)

*why not feed raw?*

with as much as you are paying per pound for the Acana, you could be feeding raw... totally just raw, no kibble, no cooking... just meat, bone and organs. Your cooked snacks look delicious! I would eat them! I know toys can be picky, but you are feeding into it. If you have the space, and time to put into it, do some research, go raw. Your dogs will love you! You will be grossed out, but the end result is worth it. There are some great raw forums online to get you started.


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## My babies (Aug 14, 2012)

Doggroomer812 said:


> with as much as you are paying per pound for the Acana, you could be feeding raw... totally just raw, no kibble, no cooking... just meat, bone and organs. Your cooked snacks look delicious! I would eat them! I know toys can be picky, but you are feeding into it. If you have the space, and time to put into it, do some research, go raw. Your dogs will love you! You will be grossed out, but the end result is worth it. There are some great raw forums online to get you started.


I'm so scared about feeding raw. What if it takes them to long to eat it and starts growing bacteria? What if they choked. Will they get really dirty and get salmonella all over? I really don't care about how much I spend on them. They r my babies. I got some raw chicken necks grinned up to try to give them for breakfast tomorrow. But I'm still really scared.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

My babies said:


> I'm so scared about feeding raw. What if it takes them to long to eat it and starts growing bacteria? What if they choked. Will they get really dirty and get salmonella all over? I really don't care about how much I spend on them. They r my babies. I got some raw chicken necks grinned up to try to give them for breakfast tomorrow. But I'm still really scared.


You should really try premade raw like Nature's Variety. You will be surprised by the results. Dogs eat with such enthusiasm when presented with the premade patties. Nature's Variety sells a bag with 48 medallions. Each medallion is 1 ounce. Depending on your toy poodle's weight, I cannot imagine them eating more than 2 medallions (2 ounces)! It is worth the money. They basically look like burger patties and not bloody at all. This is my go-to raw food when I travel or when other people feed my dogs. They have no problems with it. The dogs will eat it so quickly you will not have to worry about food sitting out. Once they are done eating, wash their bowls with soap and hot water. You can feed the premade raw patties and continue your meat as treats. I found some freeze dried salmon crumbs in the pantry and I sprinkled some on top of their raw meals. It was a great bonus! There is another brand called Bravo that is half the price as Nature's Variety. I've bought several different brands of premade raw and my dogs loved them all. I am not much of a cook - so rawfeeding I can definitely do!


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

If you are really scared about rawfeeding - don't be! I was too, but only because I had no idea what I was doing. The premade patties are a great way to start the rawfeeding. You will not need to worry about measuring meat, bones, and organs. The correct ratios are in the patties. Once you are comfortable with the premade stuff, you will probably start dabbling with raw meaty bones. Don't feel pressured to feed raw though - it's not for everyone. But I hope you will try it and see how wonderful it can be. You can also do a search for raw feeding on this forum, you will find really great advice and tips. Good luck!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think that you have already proved that - as far as your dogs are concerned at least - you are a world class chef, so I would not let that put you off. You just need to add a few ingredients to what you are dong already. I find a slow cooker very useful - ground meat and bone and offal and veg goes in in the evening, cooks very slowly through the night, and gets portioned up and frozen next day. Who knows, you may even progress to cooking your own pasta souces, and then casseroles, until pot noodles are no more than a distant memory!


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## My babies (Aug 14, 2012)

Gave them grinned up chicken neck last night for dinner. Miu Miu loved it. Gucci took 1 bite then walked away. Guess raw is not for him. So Gucci didn't eat dinner, not even the kibbles, and didn't eat breakfast today. So frustrated


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Try making the ground meat into small patties, and just searing the outside in a hot frying pan so that it smells and tastes cooked. That is often all it takes to convince a dog not used to raw that it is edible - once they have tasted it they thoroughly enjoy it!


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

If your babies don't like your cooking, you can come cook for me! 

I like fjm's idea of meeting in the middle of raw and cooked.


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

So sorry that you have 2 picky eaters. I have one at home and I grind my teeth everytime he refuse to eat his food which is always. My Charlie, toypoo mix, is so picky but he won't go days without eating. I'm all about tough love though it is hard to do with him and his cuteness looking back at me.

Kibble is very important so even if they only eats a few kibbles thats extremely good for them. Try Nature's Variety frozen raw bite size. On a very picky day, Charlie chow these down like there is no tomorrow. 

I agree with Tortoise that we are the reason why they are so picky. So I would start practicing tough love. With Charlie, I would put the food down then 10-15 minutes later I take it away and that day no treats, no play, no couch, and he sleeps alone in his crate. If his behaviour continues, I will repeat the same pattern, no treats, no play, no couch, and he sleeps alone in his crate. Now I add no daycare when he is being picky, no daycare means no friends. 

I've been doing this tough love since he was 3 mos old. Now he is 6.5 mos old and he eats anything I put in his bowl. He gets different food monthly. This month NV bite size. Next month he'll be back on kibble and/or canned food. Twice a week, he got raw chicken wing and/or chicken leg either for breakfast or dinner. I work so I don't cook for Charlie, except when he was sick. 

Good luck with Gucci and Miu Miu. They are too cute!!!


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## My babies (Aug 14, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the advise. They are both doing a little better with a little tiny bit of "tough love". They get hand fed, yes hand fed, Acana kibbles in the morning. But they don't really eat a lot in the morning. In the afternoon I give them grilled fresh meat and I added grinned up egg shells (1/2 tsp per 1 pound meat). I put it on the meat before I grill it. I hope that's what I'm suppose to do. Then for dinner they get Acana kibbles again. And a few bites of fresh fruits for midnight snack. I never had dogs that don't like to eat. It's frustrating and concerning. Wonder if pickiness is a poodle's thing. lol


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't think pickiness is a poodle thing. I think it's a toy dog owner thing. They have you well trained with handfeeding and cooking for them - smart little dogs. 

A little word of warning about an unbalanced diet. A breeder I know shipped a wonderful pup with a lot of potential to a loving devoted owner. The owner, wanting to do the right thing, sent to pup away for 4 months to a training facility. Something went horribly, horribly wrong with the unbalanced raw diet they offered. This beautiful, bred from working lines pup is now crippled for life. Her growth plates fused too soon, her pelvis is twisted and she will never walk normally again. One vet advised having her PTS, two other vets stated the damage was totally nutritional in cause. The poor owners of this pup are trying to do all they can to keep her comfortable - a balanced diet, suppliments, hydotherapy and surgery. It will not cure her, it's too late for that. 

Please, please get your babies on a proper diet. It is vital to their very lives. I can tell you care deeply for them, show it in the way you feed them. Please!


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## sophiebonita (Jul 10, 2012)

BorderKelpie, you made me nervous w this story. Do u think a premade raw diet (Natures Variety) is complete and balanced for a puppy? It says it is, but so many people feed puppy kibble which I know is complete and balanced that I'm nervous!!! What were they feeding them at that training facility???


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## My babies (Aug 14, 2012)

Ahhh u r making me nervous too. They r getting kibbles for breakfast and dinner. They r toys so they don't tend to eat a lot. Should I buy them supplements? Any suggestion on brand? I did try raw. I gave them grinned up chicken neck (with the bones grinned up). Miu Miu loves it so much. But Gucci smelled it and walked away.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

The premade raw diets are balanced. The problem was an improper calcium/phosphorous ratio due to no or not enough bone added. 

I would rather you used a premade raw diet, at least until you get comfortable with and have properly researched a homemade raw diet. 

As far as puppy kibble/diets go, I never fed any of my pups a puppy specific diet, just smaller, more frequent offerings of a good quality adult diet. In nature, with the exception of mama's milk, pups,cubs and kittens don't get a special baby diet, they get whatever the pack or mama can find for them. Knock on wood, I've always had very healthy dogs.


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## sophiebonita (Jul 10, 2012)

Thanks for setting my mind at ease, Borderkelpie!! I'm a newbie not only to poodles but to the whole doggie world. Well, we had a dog growing up but she ate purina dog chow :/


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

There are a lot of excellent resources out there for you to learn about feeding. Unfortunatly, there are also a lot of un-informed and mis-informed people out there, too. 

The pre-made raw IMHO is the best way to go while researching to see if going totally homemade raw is right for you. Don't be ashamed if homemade raw is too difficult for you, it's an individual thing. As long as whichever diet - premade raw, home cooked or home made raw or even top quality kibble is balanced, you and your dogs will be ok. 

Just use common sense and don't let your dogs tell you what to do. They are like children, if you let them, they'll eat nothing but m&ms, pizza, and mcnuggets. It's up to you to be informed and put your foot down and lead them down the right path.

Best wishes!


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## sophiebonita (Jul 10, 2012)

Luckily, my picky eater downs the raw as if it were McDonald's! I feel fortunate I was recommended to NV premade. 


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