# Reasonable price for toy poodle?



## Psauri (11 mo ago)

Hey everyone!
I’ve been in contact with a breeder for a toy poodle and the price is $3500 in total. A $1500 deposit when you match with a puppy and $2000 when you pick it up. Im just wondering if that sounds reasonable? The breeder is poodles by cooki in Gainesville Florida.








Poodles By Cooki


Family-Raised, Happy, and Healthy




www.poodlesbycooki.com




Thanks in advance for any advice!


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Psauri said:


> Hey everyone!
> I’ve been in contact with a breeder for a toy poodle and the price is $3500 in total. A $1500 deposit when you match with a puppy and $2000 when you pick it up. Im just wondering if that sounds reasonable? The breeder is poodles by cooki in Gainesville Florida.
> 
> 
> ...


That is a very normal price for toy poodles, but that particular breeder is not one I would purchase from. Here are a number of things I noticed from a brief look at the site:


dogs registered with ckc which _probably_ means Continental kennel club which is a total scam registry that would register a goldfish as a poodle if you paid the money. The Canadian Kennel Club is legit but my guess is that's not what she is referring to. Could be checked.
breeds mini and toy sized dogs and categorizes based on puppy size. These should be two separate lines and she shouldn't be getting wild size variation in her litters like that. People generally don't intervariety breed without specific purpose.
no mention of health testing which is a big red flag. Toy poodles need patella testing, eye exam, and genetic testing for PRA which is a common issue for small poodles. Minis also need hip testing.
no mention of adult dogs on her website. No reputable breeder would fail to give plenty of info on their breeding dogs.
puppies have tails docked too short in photos which means she doesn't know much about the poodle standard and your dog would be stuck with a short little tail forever.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

Have you asked what 'accredited health certificate' means? 

PF has great info on selecting a puppy/breeder. You might want to check that out.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Actually no, since the puppies are C.K.C. registered which is great if that if it is Canadian Kennel club which I doubt since they are based in Florida, but not if it's Continental Kennel Club which is just a pet registry basically means little. 
I see no mention of testing of the dam or sires or mention of them at all. 
Bare minimum prior to being bred dam and sire should be O.F.A. tests for P.R.A. (progressive retinal Atrophy)and for Knees (luxating patella repair is pricey).


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

The price is reasonable for well bred toy poodles. However based on their website these do not appear to be well bred. Keep looking, you can do a lot better. 

Quoting from Cooki’s website “Each of our puppies are registered CKC, administered necessary medicines & vaccinations, and receive an accredited health certificate”. 

First red flag is dogs are registered with CKC which, given this is Florida probably means Continental Kennel Club and not Canadian Kennel Club. Continental Kennel Club is used by puppy mills and bad backyard breeders. Avoid them like the plague. You want a puppy with legitimate papers from AKC, UKC or Canadian Kennel Club.

I would hope all puppies are administered necessary medicines and vaccinations but what does that health certificate mean? Frankly more important than that mumbo jumbo is what testing has been done on the parents? Have the parents earned titles in conformation or other dog sports showing that they are worthy of breeding? Have the parents had all recommended health testing?


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

Skylar said:


> I would hope all puppies are administered necessary medicines and vaccinations but what does that health certificate mean?


Legally, you can't sell a puppy in Florida without it being examined by a vet, who issues a certificate stating that the puppy appeared to be healthy at the time of the exam. The certificate is good for a set time period, after which it would need to be renewed if the puppy hasn't been sold in the meanwhile.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Scrap that breeder, because for that price and maybe a bit of a wait you can get a better toy. Try American Kennel Club and search toy poodles in Florida. There are three kennel names that caught my eye from 2021. You will get a puppy that might have gone to Westminster, certainly one with all the PCA testing and a breeder who is not going to ghost you. Best wishes on your search.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Sorry for the double post, but that link just lands you on the AKC Home. You want “Grand Champions by State” which is at apps.akc.org


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## Psauri (11 mo ago)

Thanks everyone! I appreciate your help and guidance. I’ll be looking for a different breeder so if anyone knows one in the North or Central FL I’m all ears. Thanks again! 😄


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## Footprints&pawmarks (Mar 8, 2021)

..."I'm all ears"...
Long, soft, floofy poodle ears, I assume!


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## bobacat (Dec 26, 2021)

I did a quick reference and some breeders that could be worth looking into are Carmine Poodles, Dbara Poodles, Cypress Poodles, Janstone Poodles, Nanjac Poodles, Tantalite Poodles, Vonstarr Poodles (all in Florida). 
I consider the list I referenced to be trustworthy, but it helps that these breeders have a Facebook and or website to look through for a first glance.
Some stuff I read on here helped a lot- Clubs will know of breeders and breeders also know other breeders


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Hi and Welcome!

There's a lot of really good info above. I know your question was about price but it sounds like you are trying to find and work with a quality, conscientious breeder to get your companion from. I hope you won't mind if I offer a tips list.

You can also read information directly from one of our members who is a very well-respected breeder here.

*We often hear from folks that they just want a pet.*
What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that the quality, conscientious breeders are _always _breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions but are flawless to us .

*It's not unusual to think that there are possibly thousands of breeders to choose from.*
For quality, conscientious breeders, that number is more likely only in the hundreds in the US or Canada. A bottom-line difference is between those who're breeding primarily for profit and those who're breeding because they feel not only love for poodles but an obligation to the entire breed. Each of their, usually infrequent, breedings are thoughtfully chosen to try to improve something in their lines and consequently the future of the breed.

*About reviews*,
a happy owner doesn't necessarily mean an informed owner. It's as likely they've just been lucky, so far. Review any negative comments carefully, if they're allowed to appear.

*Getting a puppy from a quality, conscientious breeder is something like insurance.*
Their investment in the health, welfare, and soundness of all the dogs in their care including the puppies they offer to new homes is part of the reason you're not likely to find a less than $2000 USD puppy from them.

*The saying is "pay the breeder or pay the vet".*
Price alone isn't the only thing to separate quality breeders from those less than. We've seen members quote as high, and even much higher pricing for pups from parents not health tested, not proven to meet breed standards, sold as purebred when only a DNA test could determine that since they may be sold without registration papers.

If I knew the risks and have dedicated poodle health savings of several thousand dollars or pet insurance, knew that basically that the breeder and I would part ways as soon as the pup was in my hands because they're very unlikely to stand behind their pup and me thru the pups life, I might proceed with a breeder that doesn't meet my criteria.

But

_I also wouldn't pay quality breeder prices, and over, unless I'm getting all the quality breeder perks._


*Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder. *The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

*Look for and verify OFA/CHIC level testing at a minimum. The recommended testing is a mix of physical exams and, for miniatures and toys there is also one DNA test.*

There are additional poodle specific DNA panels for other testable genetic conditions.
Those are companion tests with the OFA/CHIC testing, not in place of.

CHIC Program | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)
Browse By Breed | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

Toy Poodle recommended testing from the PCA with results listed on OFA

*Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)*
DNA-based test from an approved laboratory; results registered with OFA ➚
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Patellar Luxation*
OFA Evaluation, minimum age 1 year ➚

Miniature Poodle (just in case you expand your choices)

*Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)*
DNA-based test from an approved laboratory; results registered with OFA ➚
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Patellar Luxation*
OFA evaluation, minimum age 1 year ➚
*Hip Dysplasia* (One of the following)
OFA Evaluation ➚
PennHIP Evaluation
The PRA test is a DNA test. The others are physical exams done by a qualified vet.
The DNA panels are nice and have helpful info but should not be accepted as the only health testing.

*A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy*
doesn't have much to back it if the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety recommended by the Poodle Club of America. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

*Read thru any contracts that may be listed*.
If they rule out coverage for health conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?

*Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times*
and that wait is stretched well into 2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs, 9-5 paying job, and family, rather than keep a website updated.

*When you start making contacts*, let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.

*Color preferences* are understandable but keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies.
That beautiful color you fell for may not look the same in a few weeks, or months, or years. Most poodle colors fade.

*Gender preferences* will also limit your options.

*Temperament and personality* are lifelong traits.

*Be prepared to spend* in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

*Be prepared to travel* outside your preferred area.

*As a very general rule, websites to be leery of are*
those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience". A breeder using marketing terms like teacup, royal, giant don't really know poodles in relation to the breed standard. Pricing differently for size or color is also marketing.

*Be wary of a breeder who sells a puppy with full registration rights
(*breeding rights which allow the next generation of pups to be registered with the AKC) simply for the price of admission. A responsible breeder will not allow their reputation and their poodles to be bred by anyone, to any dog, without having a contractual say in the breeding and the pups. They will want to be involved.

*One additional caution, be very wary of those very cute short legged poodles.*
That's a genetic mutation which may carry serious life-altering disease.

An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. An online search for "Poodle Club of ___ (your city or state/province)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.
PCA National Breeder Referral - The Poodle Club of America
PCA National Breeder Referral - The Poodle Club of America

Search for Local Clubs/Breeders - The Poodle Club of America
Search for Local Clubs/Breeders - The Poodle Club of America

As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, this is my shortlist criteria.

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come.
_Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is well bred._


Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time 

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards physically and temperamentally and are sound by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.


To start a search for a breeder, use the official Poodle Clubs first. PF has a lot of resources to view also, and individual recommendations will be made too. Compare those to the information above for a good shot at a quality, conscientious breeder and a happy, healthy poodle.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

I agree with others that the breeder "poodles by cookie" is not someone from whom you should purchase a puppy. Reputable breeders always put up information about genetic testing! That was certainly not the case for poodles by cookie.

Google Orlando Poodle Club and/or Tampa Bay Poodle Club to obtain the name and contact number/email of the breeder referral person for that club. Such a person will put you in touch with a reputable poodle breeder. By the way, a reputable breeder is not going to charge any more than the one you found.


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## Casper&sandra (Jan 9, 2022)

Psauri said:


> Hey everyone!
> I’ve been in contact with a breeder for a toy poodle and the price is $3500 in total. A $1500 deposit when you match with a puppy and $2000 when you pick it up. Im just wondering if that sounds reasonable? The breeder is poodles by cooki in Gainesville Florida.
> 
> 
> ...


$350 nine years ago. I have beautiful white with a little apricot. Registered.


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## imeiki (6 mo ago)

Hi Psauri,

This thread inspired me to post on Cooki's behalf. I went so far to create an account here on Poodle Forum. I just recently purchased my Mini Poodle from her and he is the absolute greatest boy! He even came home potty/house trained and hasn't had a single accident. He is remarkably smart and fills me with so much joy --- whenever our eyes meet it's like looking into the eyes of my child. I get goosebumps sometimes and just think how lucky I am to have found him and Cooki.

Since you asked about pricing I'll address that first. I was just like you, searching high and low for the perfect puppy and breeder. I'd come across prices as high as $5500 and lows of $500. Quality of puppy and conditions were diminishing visibly as the price went lower. I decided that no lower than $2500 was the sweet spot for me. But even at the $3000-$4000 range I'd notice the quality just didn't match up to the price they were asking. By then I had found Cooki and noticed the puppies on her site. Then her instagram. Then her Facebook. I was taken back by her babies and the community she's cultivated. It gave me confidence that she was indeed legitimate and most likely worth the price. I narrowed my list to just a few breeders before I even reached out. Cooki was not the cheapest and the highest was $5500. 

I reached out to the first of five. They hardly wanted to answer any of my questions. The conversation lasted maybe 10 minutes and right away did not feel as I'd be getting the puppy for me. The next person I spoke to was actually really nice, possibly too nice. If you ever had a gut instinct that something was just 'off' this is exactly what happened to me. They sent me pictures and the pups were cute, but I couldn't see or chose the pup I'd actually want. I wasn't able to see the dog I would be getting? That was strange to me. The next was much like the first and quite reserved and short in response. I was hoping for more transparency. The fourth was Cooki.

I spent two hours on the phone with her and received so much information about Poodles. I felt like I just downloaded 30 years with of knowledge from her. It was like speaking with my Grandma all over again...I'd lost track of time and just felt so at ease as she answered each and every one of my questions (even the ones I didn't know I had). 

I needn't go any further and knew I wanted a puppy from her. Once I talked it over with my husband, we decided to go for it. We chose our boy and he matched our preference as to what sort of Poodle puppy we were hoping to find (a dark colored male who'd be about 12-14lbs). She accepted our deposit and we'd receive updates of him in form of videos and pictures every weekend. We visited him a couple of times too and were impressed with the pup’s arrangements and conditions. 

I will briefly speak on some of the things others have mentioned such as the pup's registration and testing. I too was concerned at first, but as I dug in further I'd found that AKC does actually register puppy-mills and figured that since I'm not showing my puppy that one may be just as good as the other. Especially after speaking with Cooki directly I had no question as to her legitimacy. And testing---She uses Embark testing for her dogs. Both of my puppy's parents have been tested and I'm able to view their results online or through the app. I also got to meet my puppy's parents, which I thought was so cool! 

My puppy came to me with shots, wormings, and vaccines, along with his Official Certificate of Veterinary Inspection issued by the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services Division of Animal Industry Bureau of Animal Disease Control (I copied this directly for the certificate). And my own vet commented on how great a Poodle my little man is. 

We couldn't be happier and consider it an incredible blessing to have had the experience we did with Cooki and her family. Hope this is helpful!


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