# Crate drama



## politicalpoodle (Aug 30, 2017)

So we've had Leo for about a week now. He's great, but we all know about puppy ups and downs. I was ready for the pooping and chewing, but less ready for the barking and crying. 

He's fine at night and we've been making progress on not crying when he's in the pen while someone is in the room with him. But as soon as I leave the room he's crying and barking. And it can go on for HOURS. He's really loud for such a little guy. I'm not sure what to do because I have to go to class, but he barks the entire time I'm gone (2 hours). There is no amount of time that is okay. As soon as I leave the room, it's full tilt screaming. We spent the weekend trying to work up from smaller increments of time, but there just isn't even a place to start. I'm not sure what to do. Is this normal? Will it go away once he's more settled?


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

That was our experience with Kit but not Lucky who never screamed or barked. Kit was like that for us the first few days of getting our 8 week old puppy. Then we discovered that Lucky was super fond of puppy Kit. He made her crying stop completely and we only lost a week of sleep. He took care of her better than both of us and was always watching her like a mama bear. Kit snuggled at night in Lucky's crate and they've been thick as thieves until she became an annoying teenager.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I just got a new puppy yesterday and she kept we awake until 2:30 am. She started crying when I put her to bed at 10. The last 2 hours she was screaming bloody murder. I waited until she stopped for 30 seconds, took her for a pee, which she did, and then she finally fell asleep.

Are you careful never to let him out if he's whining ? That's the key and it works on 99% of the dogs. Invest in some good airplugs and just let it pass. It shouldn't take more than a few days, week at the most, if you follow this rule.

Once I had a puppy who hated the crate and never stopped crying. But she was very, very high strung and basically never settled down. This is rare.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

Does he get any kind of treats or goodies in the crate? That can help create a more positive association (and sometimes buy you a couple seconds when you can reward them for being quiet).

Also, make sure you never let him out when he's crying. If he cries, turn around and leave. Or stand there, not making eye contact, so you can open the crate the SECOND he takes a break from crying. If he thinks that crying/barking/screaming will make you come back, then he'll be more inclined to keep it up.

It does usually get better, but if he's really distressed and/or neighbors are complaining, it might be worth looking into a different arrangement. Maybe he'd be happier in an exercise pen or locked in the bathroom with a potty pad? Or perhaps you can hire someone to check in on him while you're gone?


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## politicalpoodle (Aug 30, 2017)

We never let him out while he's crying. I try my best not to even come back into the room if he's crying, but sometimes it's unavoidable (the downside to open concept). I really hope it blows over soon!


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## politicalpoodle (Aug 30, 2017)

Oh, and only gets his kong when he's in the crate, which he loves! We have both a crate and an ex pen, and it doesn't seem to make a difference


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

You could try some crate games with him just to help him think of the space itself differently. Basically make the idea of going into the crate and staying there (with the door open at first) into a game and see if you can build from there. Here are a few ideas of games that I found, but if you google "crate games" you can probably find more: https://www.twincitiespetrescue.org/blog/introductory-crate-training-games-dogs/


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Crate games is a great idea! I would use the exercise pen and crate together so your pup does not feel trapped in a crate. Make sure to do a lot of exercises during the day. This would be great for tiring him out.


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

When Zephyr came home at 9 weeks old he slept on the bed from day one. He usually slept all night. If he had to go out he got restless and I woke up and took him out but this only happened a couple of times. He is the first puppy I did this with, but I will always do it going forward. 

I have a friend who has always done this with her puppies, (one was only four weeks old) and says that she has never had a puppy pee or poop on her bed. I decided to try it for myself with Zephyr, and will never go back to keeping a puppy in a crate at night. When I did crate puppies the crate was next to my bed and the puppies were always pretty quiet.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

reraven I took Lily to a trial when Javelin had been home for about ten-12 days. He had been having a hard time with the crate and since BF had to get sleep so he could work he took Jav out of the drate and put him on the bed, which is where he stayed. He never ever soiled the bed or elsewhere in the house when he was able to jump off the bed if he got hot, but he still has a tough time being in a crate calmly. This is a big huge problem for me since he is training to be a performance obedience dog. He could be an OTCh/200 kind of dog, but what's the use if I can't take him anywhere? I will never cave on puppy crating ever again.

To the OP, be very consistent and do try some crate games and it will get better.


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

Zorro is fine in a crate, we trained that separately from being in one at night. Part of where I train is having the dogs be in crates while they are waiting for their turns, and he has been crated at home and other places as well. I did not "cave" on crate training, I just didn't train it when he was upset at being alone in a strange place at night.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

all my dogs from the day I get them sleep with me and have never had a problem, I am a light sleeper so if they move I am awake.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Hey reraven I didn't accuse you of caving, I was pointing out my problem with my dog as a rationale for making the crate a happy place and having it as a tool in your toolbox for training and working with puppies and dogs, why defensive when not needed?


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

I'm sorry, I didn't intend to sound defensive, just giving my reasons to not crate at night. I absolutely respect your training methods and find your posts very interesting and informative. :adore: 

Love hearing about your dogs and their progress.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I think a diverse array of experiences surely helps people who are trying to make decisions, especially sleep deprived puppy parents. Javelin is great in the house and is a pleasure to be with, but boy do I wish we had not failed at the crate when he was a baby boy. That bit will be a problem any place that I have to crate him where he can hear me. If he doesn't hear me he is fine, but if he hears my voice, he is crazy to get out.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

So, lily cd re, all you have to do with Javvy and the crate issue, is to learn to be very quiet. You should creep around like a mouse, ha-ha! Isn't it funny how each dog teaches us a lesson about training, that we swear we will never let happen again. Training is both complicated, and made easier, by the presence of another handler. Maybe Javvy will be like our Airedale; one day when she was was about four, she just decided crates were okay.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Puppies are not designed by nature to be alone - being alone means being vulnerable, so instinct tells them to cry loudly till Mum comes and rescues them, or to freeze and be silent until rescued. When crate training a young puppy it seems to me that we are trying to teach them something which goes against most pups' instincts, and we should be considerate and gentle about it. I am another who found it was much simpler to take pups to bed with me - and then found that they crate trained themselves thanks to the car crate, which always had happy connotations. 

Is there anyone who can puppy sit for you while your pup is so young? I found being alone training came very easily to mine when they were heading into teenage months and feeling more independent, but was desperately hard on them when tiny puppies, so I found friends who would stay with them or have them to stay when I had no choice but to leave them in those first few weeks.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Charmed the biggest problem with him about crating is at my club on Fridays (and by extension I worry about small shows). Since I have to talk loudly to teach and I am giving orders for activities he loves to do he has a tendency to be very impatient and wants to escape to come work with me. I usually put him behind a pair of baby gates behind our front desk along with Lily, but he also went through a territorial phase back there where either he was protecting the space or thought he had to protect her. He has been a lot better with all of that since we came back from our August workshop though where we did do a lot of work on relaxing in the crate. He actually allowed me four nice relaxed lunches while he was in the crate during that workshop and that was huge for him (but I think he couldn't hear me very much since there were about 30 people all talking conversationally). Now I need to get to the point where I could have him in a crate at a smaller venue while I showed Lily. We will work on that at some matches in upcoming months.


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## politicalpoodle (Aug 30, 2017)

Thank you everyone for the advice! Right now he only has to be alone for two hours twice a week, and I'll see if I can find a friend to sit. I'll add some crate games to our play time and see if it helps. I guess I'm just a bit freaked out because our neighbor has an adult dog that barks all the time and I sooooo don't want Leo to turn out like that. But as fjm pointed out it's a bit early to be worried about that. 

I'm so grateful that he's good in the crate at night. We slept all the way through the night last night (11pm to 7 am)! Each day is better. I guess I just thought I'd done my research and was ready and got startled by the curve ball. Lesson learned, you're never prepared for a puppy!


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

Mine have gradually grown out of "fruitless" barking if they did it all, in part because I was very careful not to reinforce it. That said...I'm in the group that will go back in the room and smack the side of the crate when the dog is barking. The idea is to create a noise that will startle the dog into being quiet, and as soon as he is quiet, you open the door and have a party. Rinse and repeat. It's the other side of teaching the dog that silence gets him out of the crate--noise gets him something *mildly* unpleasant.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

lily cd re, you can't teach quietly that's for sure. I was only kidding about the quiet mouse thing. Sounds like Javvy is already catching on. He has a lot more to learn that the dog that is a backyard pet. He will meet your expectations.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Charmed I knew you were kidding, but it has been such a frustrating issue for me since it has involved him getting out of his crate at a huge show (thankfully I had time to deal with it), me leaving him in the truck during rally nationals, him destroying the covers of a couple of crates (able to be replaced) and really breaking another crate (wasted $). He has made great progress recently so I am hopeful. And you are right that there are lots of expectations invested in him. He is so smart and loves to work though. Since I have had a cold the last few days I haven't done much with him for the past couple of days and he was really pestering me to work yesterday because of it. This boy could have ten jobs and never get burned out.


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## jude0224 (Sep 16, 2017)

fjm said:


> Puppies are not designed by nature to be alone - being alone means being vulnerable, so instinct tells them to cry loudly till Mum comes and rescues them, or to freeze and be silent until rescued. When crate training a young puppy it seems to me that we are trying to teach them something which goes against most pups' instincts, and we should be considerate and gentle about it. I am another who found it was much simpler to take pups to bed with me - and then found that they crate trained themselves thanks to the car crate, which always had happy connotations.
> 
> Is there anyone who can puppy sit for you while your pup is so young? I found being alone training came very easily to mine when they were heading into teenage months and feeling more independent, but was desperately hard on them when tiny puppies, so I found friends who would stay with them or have them to stay when I had no choice but to leave them in those first few weeks.


FJM

I always heard about people training their dogs in this manner, and some peope leave them alone all day inside the crate, I dont judge, yet I could never do that, and those people judged me saying I was going to spoil them and it would be hard to train ect, well for me my dogs have always been happier and content and never fear me and I never have had training problems. the crated dogs are usual the dogs that have anxiety, housebreaking issues, attachment disorder, and training difficulties...I prefer our method! Jude

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