# Evanger's, Fromm, Instinct, Natural Balance, Timberwolf



## Ryker-&-Canyon (Dec 12, 2012)

I thought I was set on using Natural Balance. I started looking over reviews and ratings on dog food and now I am feeling VERY overwhelmed. What are your thoughts on Evanger's, Fromm, Instinct, Natural Balance, and Timberwolf? I will be feeding him both dry and wet. Does anyone mix a couple brands?


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Ryker's_Mama said:


> I thought I was set on using Natural Balance. I started looking over reviews and ratings on dog food and now I am feeling VERY overwhelmed. What are your thoughts on Evanger's, Fromm, Instinct, Natural Balance, and Timberwolf? I will be feeding him both dry and wet. Does anyone mix a couple brands?


You have to decide what is important to you in a food. Personally I don't trust nor knowingly feed diamond foods OR any foods they manufacture. They have had long line of recalls but the worst was when Taste of the Wild made my girls very ill. I was horrified when I found out it was a diamond food. Natural Balance is manufactured by diamond, that really bites since its one of the only foods my toy can eat.

What I look for is a food made with human grade ingredients, no bad ingredients, own their own plant, do a lot of testing, not use ingredients from China, and no recalls. For that I feed/ fed Fromm's and honest kitchen. I have looked at addiction foods as well. All have a grain free option. Fromm's and addiction have canned foods, and Fromm's four star canned foods look and smell like something you or I would eat. Honest Kitchen is a dehydrated raw food and the only FDA human grade food out there which means you or I COULD eat it lol. Both my girls love Fromm's and HK. When my mini had her litter she was on Fromm's four Star chicken a la veg. My friend was weaning the pups on to pro plan while she kept my girl on pro plan which was really hard cause all they wanted was the Fromm's lol!!

I am planning on buying some Fromm grain free to add to my HK to up the protein when I'm not feeding raw chicken to her. Why not just feed a higher protein HK formula? Cause it's very expensive lol, and rightfully so! But I trust Fromm's and it is a cheaper grain free food, and fits all my requirements . Why would you want to mix foods? Nothing wrong with it just curious. Here is a picture of my girl on a mix of Fromm's four star chicken a la veg and grain free surf n turf. That nice muscling had to be the food as she was a couch potato with me and of course toy tossing in the living room lol. What a lil extra protein does!









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## Ryker-&-Canyon (Dec 12, 2012)

Laura, thank you! This was very helpful. Your girls are gorgeous. (off to check out Honest Kitchen)


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## Ryker-&-Canyon (Dec 12, 2012)

I wanted to come back and say that I am very impressed with Honest Kitchen. I ordered samples of Love and Embark (and Grace for my cats). I also just had to get a box of Pecks. ;-) Ryker is not even home yet, but in the last couple days I have bought so much. He is one spoiled pup already. 

Do dogs need dry food? I was told to use dry food with my cats, that it is good for their teeth. If I went with HK, should I then use something like Fromm for dry? Would I give both at each meal, one in the morning the other in the evening, or maybe use dry as treats? Sorry for so many questions.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Ryker's_Mama said:


> I wanted to come back and say that I am very impressed with Honest Kitchen. I ordered samples of Love and Embark (and Grace for my cats). I also just had to get a box of Pecks. ;-) Ryker is not even home yet, but in the last couple days I have bought so much. He is one spoiled pup already.
> 
> Do dogs need dry food? I was told to use dry food with my cats, that it is good for their teeth. If I went with HK, should I then use something like Fromm for dry? Would I give both at each meal, one in the morning the other in the evening, or maybe use dry as treats? Sorry for so many questions.


Thanks Ryker's Mama, and ask away I'm happy to share. BTW it's normal to buy all sorts of stuff before they get home, I was the same way with Eve. I even bugged the crap out of her breeder lol.

Fergie LOVED the Embark! I am planning in trying the love for Eve as its the only one of their line she's not allergic to! I will warn you it comes in somewhat of a powder and rehydrates into more of an oatmeal consistency. But they do love it. 

No you don't Need dry food that's a lot of poo! Dry food is very convenient and aids in using their chewing muscles. Also they drink more when they are on dry food even when you add water to it like I do. Dry food does not help in keeping teeth clean it's all genetics and just good ole fashion elbow grease lol. It's best to brush their teeth on a daily if not weekly basis at the longest, provide things to chew on but be careful what you choose and supervise them. My toy does great with gnawing on antlers and mini thinks if she can't actually swallow it then it's a waste of her time so she gets raw chicken wings.

My toy should have the worst teeth since she is maybe 5lbs, but my 12lb mini will get way more build up if unattended than my toy if all points are equal. It almost seems like kibble leaves more of a coating and adds to the problem IME. My minis teeth stay a bit cleaner on the HK than when I fed her Kibble. That said she was also on Nupro joint supplement( both were) and switched to something else about the same time lol.
ETA: Not sure which variety you have but I also add a joint supplement as part of their diet. It's good for keeping athletic dogs joints healthy in the long run. I've done so with Eve (but because she had bad knees) since she was 3 and didn't see a difference until she became allergic to the Nupro supplement at about 7yrs. When I took her off to find something else she slowed waaay down. Put her on cosequin and she is as perky as a pup and will be 9yrs this Xmas.

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## Ryker-&-Canyon (Dec 12, 2012)

Laura, thank you again! I so appreciate you taking the time to help me. 

I had to laugh out loud about you bugging the crap out of your breeder. I have emailed my breeder a few times. I hope I am not annoying her. The nice thing is that she has live video on the pups. We are always checking in and watching. And I keep reminding myself that the little guy will be here soon, just a couple weeks. 

May I ask what dog toothbrushes you use? Toothpaste? 

Your thoughts on dry has me really thinking. I think what I might do is give him a taste of HK along with what he is currently eating at each meal, offering more and more HK and less kibble, and then gradually switch to all HK.

I bought some puppy biscuits, Nylabone Puppy Chews, and puppy chew toys.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Ryker's_Mama said:


> Laura, thank you again! I so appreciate you taking the time to help me.
> 
> I had to laugh out loud about you bugging the crap out of your breeder. I have emailed my breeder a few times. I hope I am not annoying her. The nice thing is that she has live video on the pups. We are always checking in and watching. And I keep reminding myself that the little guy will be here soon, just a couple weeks.
> 
> ...


Your welcome! Yeah I didn't have the luxury of video OR photos as they grew up. I was able to hold and pick her out at 2 days old tho and couldn't stop thinking about her. The breeder was an older show breeder (not one of the better ones) but everyone had great temperaments and even put a lil stuffed toy with her to pick up the scent of her litter mates so she would t be lonely in her kennel at night. I knew I was bugging her when she wanted to let her go early, to which I said no of course!! ... Wish I had video lol.

I use Petrodex poultry flavored enzymatic toothpaste it even comes in a kit with a finger brush and double ended brush. The finger brush to get puppies used to it and brush for when they take it more readily. 

What is he eating now? See if the breeder can give you some to tide him over till you can switch. The way you say it is the proper transition procedure, it should be about a week but I've gone as long as 3 wks since it depended how much old food I had left. Oh and for the love of god don't free feed. It makes a lot of these toys picky eaters.. I learned the hard way


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## brownlikewoah (May 3, 2012)

Ryker's_Mama said:


> I wanted to come back and say that I am very impressed with Honest Kitchen. I ordered samples of Love and Embark (and Grace for my cats). I also just had to get a box of Pecks. ;-) Ryker is not even home yet, but in the last couple days I have bought so much. He is one spoiled pup already.
> 
> Do dogs need dry food? I was told to use dry food with my cats, that it is good for their teeth. If I went with HK, should I then use something like Fromm for dry? Would I give both at each meal, one in the morning the other in the evening, or maybe use dry as treats? Sorry for so many questions.


No, both dogs and cats do not need dry food. It is not natural for them to eat. Are you looking for the best food you can possibly buy? Something somewhat cost effective? Seriously, look into raw, home made, chunks of meat with bones in them. It's as natural as you can get, you'll never need to brush your dogs teeth, ever, because they're chewing chunks of meat with bones, crunching and cleaning away. Prey model raw feeding also reduces the risk of bloat! B.A.R.F. or S.A.R.F.


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## Ryker-&-Canyon (Dec 12, 2012)

Ladyscarletthawk said:


> Your welcome! Yeah I didn't have the luxury of video OR photos as they grew up. I was able to hold and pick her out at 2 days old tho and couldn't stop thinking about her. The breeder was an older show breeder (not one of the better ones) but everyone had great temperaments and even put a lil stuffed toy with her to pick up the scent of her litter mates so she would t be lonely in her kennel at night. I knew I was bugging her when she wanted to let her go early, to which I said no of course!! ... Wish I had video lol.
> 
> *I love having the video. I just checked on them a few minutes ago. They were wrestling around and playing with their toys.*
> 
> ...


I will NOT free feed. I like to keep track of what the cats are eating, and will feel the same with Ryker.


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## Ryker-&-Canyon (Dec 12, 2012)

brownlikewoah said:


> No, both dogs and cats do not need dry food. It is not natural for them to eat. Are you looking for the best food you can possibly buy? Something somewhat cost effective? Seriously, look into raw, home made, chunks of meat with bones in them. It's as natural as you can get, you'll never need to brush your dogs teeth, ever, because they're chewing chunks of meat with bones, crunching and cleaning away. Prey model raw feeding also reduces the risk of bloat! B.A.R.F. or S.A.R.F.


Thank you! I will be cutting dry food from both the cats' and Ryker's diets. 

I am definitely looking for the best. I do have to make budgets, but when it comes to nutrition, I feel it is not a place to cut costs.

I have very limited knowledge on home made cooking for dogs. I personally feel it might not be something that I can currently do. I am not sure if that is the case or I am just concerned about doing it right and giving a well-balanced diet. But I need to do more research. Thank you for sharing the links.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Hello! 

Wet food only shouldn't be too terribly expensive for a toy. And I will say that dry food is not only unnecessary for cats (it does not clean teeth; that is an absolute myth), it's actually really really bad for them. This is a very extensive page on why: Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition 

As to your questions about kibbles, I don't think there is anything wrong with feeding some dry food to dogs. I would choose a grain free, high quality dry food if you choose one. If you go with wet, same rules. If you go raw, even better (I feed two spoos raw and will never go back to kibble). 

When I fed kibble, I did so on a rotation diet (Rotation Diet Info). I did this for several reasons, not the least of which was it enabled me to buy what was on sale at my local pet food store. Each week, they put a different high quality, grain free food on sale (Acana, Blue Wilderness, Before Grain, Taste of the Wild, Instinct, etc etc). Since my dogs were on a rotation diet, I could usually pick up the one that was on sale, saving a few bucks each month, but spoos are a lot more expensive to feed than toys. 

I never used Fromm because I can't find it locally, but I have heard great things about the company. Natural Balance is made in Diamond plants, but they do have their own system of quality control checks that they do in addition to what Diamond performs. Is it enough? Who knows. I have never fed Evangers or Timberwolf either and don't know much about them. Have never used Honest Kitchen but have heard good things about it too. 

Pro Plan is pretty low quality food (better than the bottom rung, but not very high up the quality ladder) so good for you for looking into something better than that.


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## Ryker-&-Canyon (Dec 12, 2012)

Sookster, thank you so much!


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

I agree cats probably shouldn't get kibble. However you shouldn't feel bad feeding a good quality grain free kibble to a healthy dog. I wish I could do straight raw/BARF but I don't have the time or patience for it so I feed HK and before that Fromm's. I do however supplement raw chicken wings and necks and I can tell the difference in their teeth and poop when I do. So even if you can't do all raw a partial one is still good. The girls LoVE their raw. Occasionally I will toss in some kibble for variety as I still have some left and intend to buy either higher protein HK formula or maybe some Fromm's Surf n Turf to up her protein intake when I dont have raw defrosted.. I defrost it over a 24 hr period in the fridge as I find it safer that way. I forgot to mention that I have started to give the girls salmon oil and will see in a month if I see any changes. Hopefully I will for the better


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I rotate foods as well. I also feed raw for health and teeth. I go from Fromm, Nat. Balance, Blue and Wellness. My new girl prefers Wellness to even raw... so you have to do whatever works for you and your dog. I really think adding raw is so important, they need to eat the bone ect. Good Luck!


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## Ryker-&-Canyon (Dec 12, 2012)

Thank you all so much!

I like the idea of rotating the food. I can see that being a benefit to the animals...unless that is just because I feel it is so important for us humans to eat a diet of varying healthy foods. I also avoided/may have avoided food allergies with my son doing this.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I've been pretty pleased with Fromm. 

I used to occasionally give the boys Taste of the Wild and Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul, simply because it was so darned hard to find Fromm locally. (The flaky new age pet groomer near me was willing to special order it, and sometimes she'd even remember to call me when the order came in...:crazy The Chicken Soup formula always made them gassy. They seemed to do ok on Taste of the Wild, except for the last batch which made them barf. Happily, after the Diamond recall a lot more local stores started carrying Fromm. :cheers2:


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## Ryker-&-Canyon (Dec 12, 2012)

cowpony said:


> I've been pretty pleased with Fromm.
> 
> I used to occasionally give the boys Taste of the Wild and Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul, simply because it was so darned hard to find Fromm locally. (The flaky new age pet groomer near me was willing to special order it, and sometimes she'd even remember to call me when the order came in...:crazy The Chicken Soup formula always made them gassy. They seemed to do ok on Taste of the Wild, except for the last batch which made them barf. Happily, after the Diamond recall a lot more local stores started carrying Fromm. :cheers2:


Thank you!

I ordered samples of Honest Kitchen Love and Embark. I am going to see if I can get samples of Fromm and going to get a few cans of Evanger's. When they first come home I will remain giving them their current food and let them get adjusted. Then I am going to introduce Fromm, Evanger's, and Honest Kitchen slowly. If all goes well, I think I might rotate those out along with some raw and home cooked. 

We have a few pet stores here, one just down the street that carries most of the top quality brands. They do not carry Honest Kitchen, but I can order that through their own website.

Glad to hear more stores around you are carrying Fromm.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I do encourage you to supplement with raw bones. I feed commercial raw, Aunt Jenni, my toy Swizzle has done very well on it. I use honest kitchen sometimes when we go on a trip.


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## Ryker-&-Canyon (Dec 12, 2012)

CT Girl said:


> I do encourage you to supplement with raw bones. I feed commercial raw, Aunt Jenni, my toy Swizzle has done very well on it. I use honest kitchen sometimes when we go on a trip.


I just book marked the Aunt Jeni website. They are currently fixing an issue with their online store. Hopefully they will be back up soon. Thank you for sharing. At what age can you start giving raw bones? My boys will be around 8 or 9 weeks old when they come home, and both are tiny, 1lb 7oz and 1lb 9oz (at 7 weeks). Makes me nervous. I think I am going to be a nervous poodle mama...at least in the beginning.


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## MaryEdwards (Oct 29, 2012)

Carley's Mom said:


> I rotate foods as well. I also feed raw for health and teeth. I go from Fromm, Nat. Balance, Blue and Wellness. My new girl prefers Wellness to even raw... so you have to do whatever works for you and your dog. I really think adding raw is so important, they need to eat the bone ect. Good Luck!



I have fed Bentley raw venison before and he loved it. What other raw with bone can they have they can eat? I would like to supplement his Blue Wilderness with some fresh meats. TY


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I was/am the same way. I waited a couple of months before I gave Swizzle his first bone. I give him a chicken neck every day or two but when you start I would start out with a bone a week. Toys often have issues with their teeth and this will help keep them in good shape.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

I have heard some breeders wean their pups onto raw... My toy will get raw chicken or duck necks.. My mini gets necks ands wings and does well on it.. You can tell she gets lazy with chewing if she hasn't had any in a while as it takes her much longer when I start giving them to her again. 
A note for the toy I have to remove that big floppy chunk of skin off the neck or she'll kinda gag on it an if she gags on it too many times she'll leave it alone. After she finishes the neck I give her the skin I removed and eats it no problem. Otherwise it's like chocking on gum lol.


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