# Spoo's ... do they really have more health issues than moyens or minis?



## dogdragoness (Oct 18, 2015)

Hello all, I have had problems finding a moyen breeder in Texas so I am going with a standard. I have been told to be careful because standard poodles have more health concerns than the other varieties of poodle and I was just looking for more information as to whether this is true or not. Thank you for any feedback


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## WildPriscilla (Nov 19, 2015)

dogdragoness said:


> Hello all, I have had problems finding a moyen breeder in Texas so I am going with a standard. I have been told to be careful because standard poodles have more health concerns than the other varieties of poodle and I was just looking for more information as to whether this is true or not. Thank you for any feedback


I think it depends on where they come from. If you are buying from a breeder make sure they health tested the parents. I've had toy poodles with major health issues, but they where both rescues.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

I don't think you will find more health issues in a Spoo over a toy or mini. JMHO.

As long as you find a very reputable breeder with rigorous testing and a careful breeding program you should do fine. In fact, you are more likely to find rather oddly proportioned moyens here in the US as moyen is not really a recognized size category and some "moyen" breeders get pups from breedings between minis and Spoos so you can get a long bodied dog with short legs and a largish head. All out of proportion....they would then be susceptible to joint issues, back issues, jaw irregularities and they look funny. Rather a mess, if you ask me. Just look for a breeder of small spoos and you will do well. My Iris is from a very good breeder, is about 20 inches at the shoulder and weighs 35 lbs. she is now 13 yrs old and still in good health. A nice portable size Spoo. Poodle Rick's girl Penny is quite lovely and of a similar size if I remember correctly.

Best of luck with your Spoo search.

Here is the lovely Miss Iris


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## dogdragoness (Oct 18, 2015)

I am going with argan standard poodles in the dallas area.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

I have never heard that standards have more health problems than the smaller sized poodles; I would think it would be the opposite because often the more popular a breed, the more backyard breeders and puppy mills want to breed and sell them, And those breeds often have the most health problems. And because of their size and associated grooming, I don't think standards have ever been as popular as the smaller poodles.


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## dogdragoness (Oct 18, 2015)

I am going with a breeder with solid lines that are more diverse than most, her lines have a low occurrence of inbreeding. Her dogs do now have a history of Addisons disease, or von willebrand disease, allergies or anything else.

And I didn't mean to insinuate that standard were more unhealthy, I apologize if I offended anyone, that was not my intention. It's just my first time in a new breed and I am anxious and nervous lol.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

from what i've read, there are some differences. bloat, for example, tends to be a large dog disease. here's a link from vetstreet that may work as a general starting point for thinking about the issue:

Poodle Breed Information


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## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

I'd say bloat is the one BIG concern, as it's the one that there's really no way of screening for or preventing through genetics. But bloat/torsion are big dog issues in general, and not limited to Spoos. Plus there's always preventative gastropexies.

So IMO - a well bred spoo isn't any less healthy than a well bred mini or toy


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Reading this forum, I get the impression that addisons is a big issue for standards. 
Except for their fragility when they are young, and luxating patellas from bad breeding, I think that the toys are rather healthy.
Not sure we have enough Mini's here for a good sample, but the ones on PF seem like a healthy lot.


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## Poodlelvr (Mar 13, 2010)

All of us here on PF have our favorite size(s). I've had minis for most of my poodle owning life. All but one of minis were very healthy and lived well into their teens--most to 15 or 16. I currently have two toys 7 & 10. They are both healthy and happy. I think for all of us with poodles of different sizes our own experiences are too limited to generalize. I agree with all of those who say find a good breeder who health tests the parents of their future pups. It's not a guarantee, but it puts the odds in your favor.


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## dogdragoness (Oct 18, 2015)

I have had large breeds before including a dane/mastiff mix, and a doberman (both rescues ) and are both breeds that are high on the list for bloat and neither ever bloated, or suffered torsion.

I have a good vet, I will see what he has to say about performing the tacking procedure when he is neutered.

Is there anything I can do, feeding wise to try and prevent bloat?


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Viking Queen said:


> I don't think you will find more health issues in a Spoo over a toy or mini. JMHO.
> 
> As long as you find a very reputable breeder with rigorous testing and a careful breeding program you should do fine. In fact, you are more likely to find rather oddly proportioned moyens here in the US as moyen is not really a recognized size category and some "moyen" breeders get pups from breedings between minis and Spoos so you can get a long bodied dog with short legs and a largish head. All out of proportion....they would then be susceptible to joint issues, back issues, jaw irregularities and they look funny. Rather a mess, if you ask me. Just look for a breeder of small spoos and you will do well. My Iris is from a very good breeder, is about 20 inches at the shoulder and weighs 35 lbs. she is now 13 yrs old and still in good health. A nice portable size Spoo. Poodle Rick's girl Penny is quite lovely and of a similar size if I remember correctly.
> 
> ...


I totally agree!! 

It had been my observation over the last 60 years that breeding a dog to be smaller or bigger than the standard breed results in more defects and health issues. Toys have mouth and teeth issues largely due to being bred for small size to please the market. In time the better breeders will breed out these problems and some breeders say they have already done so.
Smaller dogs are often more prone to injury. As are inproportionally large spoos with longer legs that can be made still worse by early desexing.
Minis live longer and have no more health issues than spoos. They have been selectively bred for a long time but all poodles come from the standard breed minis were selected for small size and some say other breeds were introduced to bring down the size as with toys.
Showing has not done much to improve the standard breed and judges have leaned toward thinner legs and narrow jaws. this makes them look more elegant but has given them jaw problems and leg injury problems. 

If going for a standard poodle as a pet, go for a sensible breeder of retrieving/pointing dogs. They will have bred for a wide jaw and soft mouth. also strong muscular legs to swim well. These all make a better healthier dog. Then care with early growth and diet with a suitable exercise program will provide a stronger dog.

As mentioned I would stay clear of breeders who cross breed minis and standards to make a "moyen" if there is such a thing! European breeders have been doing this for a long time and have a line thought to be clear of defects. I really wonder?

Stick with a good healthy spoo. or go for a big mini. Please go well and train well.
Eric


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Dogdragoness, I looked at your breeder's Web page and she seems to do the health testing and has proven her dogs in conformation. I was interested in her piece on Addison's and would be prompted to ask about instances of that in her line. There are no tests yet for the carrier gene. We have had two recent cases of Addison's on PF, which can be managed expensively allowing the dog to lead a healthy life. I'm glad you are not getting a Moyen for the reasons Eric mentioned and think a SPOO will fit in nicely with your crew.


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## dogdragoness (Oct 18, 2015)

Yes, I am choosing her because she does not breed huge dogs, and her lines are the most genetically diverse, and healthiest that I have seen. Plus, she is a very nice lady and has been very transparent, she gave me names, emails and numbers of some of her buyers, two references were rescues and they said she was the only breeder that they even as a rescue she would recommend to people.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

That is very reassuring The conformation trend seems to be smaller SPOO's. Some of the female SPOO's on PF are enviably light. Buck is around 56 lbs. and I miss being able to lift him.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Mfmst said:


> That is very reassuring The conformation trend seems to be smaller SPOO's. Some of the female SPOO's on PF are enviably light. Buck is around 56 lbs. and I miss being able to lift him.


It can sure be a problem when they have a condition that requires you to lift them and you are not built like Mr universe. Lifting devices are available should you require them (talk to your VET)

A healthy spoo can levitate to your lap or anywhere else up to 6 feet!
OOOOFFFF get off!!!!! Grace (when a large puppy) leapt onto my lap landing in a classic "sit" position. With her front paws in a "most uncomfortable" place!!! She weighed in at 40lbs then. now she is 56lbs and has better manners. I had never had her on my lap as a puppy for all the good reasons but she out of the blue decided it might be a good place to sit?

Eric:angel2:


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## dogdragoness (Oct 18, 2015)

This is the breeder I am going with: angiekillian.tripod.com , she comes highly recommended from people.


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