# How do you feel about Parti Poodles?



## Jkline65 (Feb 23, 2011)

I am new to this thread and new to Poodles. I have a Spoo (took me a few days to figure out what that meant when I first joined this forum.) Mine is Standard blue, not a parti or a phantom. The breeder I got her from was very ANTI anything other than solid. I know the AKC doesn't allow them shown. Why are they allowed to be registered then. I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other. Why are they not allowed? I've seen some cute ones though I prefer solid myself. Any thoughts?:argh:


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## Lilah+Jasper (May 13, 2010)

Well... I love them. I especially adore tuxedo patterns!


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## sandooch (Jan 20, 2011)

I think they are absolutely lovely!


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

Well, I like the look of solids...except Tuxedos b/c I was a Tuxedo Cat owner, so I'm illogically partial to that particular pattern. LOL.

But I'm not a breeder/shower, just a dog-lover.

My old groomer said she had one she thought looked like a cow and said to me "don't tell them I said that!" They remind me more of Springer Spaniels.

I definitely think it makes them even more unique and to each his own.


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## Jkline65 (Feb 23, 2011)

they are very cute I just wondered what it is that makes them unshowable (im not sure thats a word)


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## Lilah+Jasper (May 13, 2010)

Bella's Momma said:


> ...My old groomer said she had one she thought looked like a cow and said to me "don't tell them I said that!"
> 
> I definitely think it makes them even more unique and to each his own.


I often call Jasper "The Spotted Cow" and he is never offended :act-up:


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## robin (Dec 18, 2010)

Partis can't be shown in AKC conformation because the breed standard specifies that all colors must be solid, with no mismarking.

They can be shown in AKC obedience, and other performance, events however.

I am not certain but I *think* partis can be shown in UKC conformation classes. I don't know about CKC.

Others will have other information to contribute, but here's my take on it: My problem is that parti breeders are knowingly breeding against the breed standard, which suggests to me that they don't know, don't care and/or are breeding strictly for money. That, in turn, suggests to me that they probably haven't done adequate genetic and health testing before breeding.

On this board, you'll find a lot of contempt for backyard breeders, often with good reason. I was very lucky in that my late black spoo, who was a byb pup, never suffered serious health problems until his last year. 

In the end, partis make perfectly good pets of course, and can be as wonderful as their solid-colored counterparts. But for me, concerns about proper testing before breeding, as well as wanting to work with a breeder who wants to improve the breed, would prevent me from considering one.

best,
robin


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

They can also be AKC registered and compete but not in AKC confirmation. 

I think partis are wonderful. I know a couple highly ethical parti breeders that are elite breeders in comparrisons to many solid breeders. :afraid:


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## Lilah+Jasper (May 13, 2010)

Olie said:


> I think partis are wonderful. I know a couple highly ethical parti breeders that are elite breeders in comparrisons to many solid breeders. :afraid:


Exactly!!! Tintlet Poodles, Jacknic Kennel and Moxie Parti Poodles come to mind right away and I am sure that there are others.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I will own one someday. I think they are beautiful, but would be VERY picky on the breeder. Lots of people just breed colors or patterns because they're popular and can get a lot of money from them. I would go with someone not bragging about color, rather have their dogs titled in performance and UKC titles.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I do believe that mismarks & partis can happen in solid litters. Just that in years past it has been so "horrific" that this happened that I am sure culling happened a great deal. So, perfectly nice dogs that might have provided good genes were chopped out of the gene pool. It has happened with the White Boxers, White German Shepherds etc.... kill off what doesn't want a breeders name attched to. I think though plenty of people are correct in that in this day & age "breeders" have gotten on the money band wagon. Just like some of the rarer solid colors, one can find poor "breeders" on the money making machine. United Kennel Club (UKC) one can show in the conformation ring the partis, phantoms, mismarks etc....


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

Jkline65 said:


> I know the AKC doesn't allow them shown. Why are they allowed to be registered then. I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other. Why are they not allowed?


It is the parent AKC breed club (Poodle Club of America in this case) that sets the breed standard, and the breed standard establishes disqualifying faults. In the PCA standard, a parti color is a disqualifying fault, and the dog cannot be shown in the *breed* ring--they can be shown in other AKC performance events, e.g., obedience, agility. 

Registration just establishes purebred status--it doesn't speak to how well the dog meets the breed standard, including the existence/absence of disqualifying faults of the dog. That's why partis can still be registered.


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## Jkline65 (Feb 23, 2011)

Thanks for the information...


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## Birdie (Jun 28, 2009)

I just wanted to chime in and say that I LOVE them! Especially black and white partis- I don't care if they're tuxedo or Spaniel-spotted, I think they are so gorgeous. The only thing I don't care for in partis is heavy ticking... not a fan of that on any dog though. Maybe it's because I have freckles on my own face that I'm not fond of them lol. 
I'm like Fluffyspoos in that I'd love to own a BW parti standard at some point, but I would have to find a really exceptional breeder who titles in performance and UKC shows. 
There's all sorts of politics and controversy about the inclusion of the parti-colored poodle in AKC standard. I can't really say why or why not, it's very very complicated. There have been a few threads about it, if you are looking for some info you can search them up. That is, if you feel like reading LONG threads only about the ridiculous politics behind something as silly as the color of a dog for your leisure-reading.  

Here's a dreamy dog I've always admired- his patterning is just... /sigh <3 This is almost exactly what I want in a parti.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Oooh, Birdie, I actually spoke to the owner of that dog you posted, his name is Dylan! Owner said that that picture was taken at 10 months, he's cleared to a black and BLUE parti!

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z30/Gemmaz47/IMG01593.jpg


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

I absolutely LOVE partis. Someday I will own one. You know, now that I think about it, I don't thing I've ever seen a mini or a toy parti, only standards. Smaller-size partis must exist, though. Or do they?


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## Camille (Feb 3, 2011)

LEUllman said:


> I absolutely LOVE partis. Someday I will own one. You know, now that I think about it, I don't thing I've ever seen a mini or a toy parti, only standards. Smaller-size partis must exist, though. Or do they?


Esme is a mini spotted party(a.k.a harlequin)


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

LEUllman said:


> I absolutely LOVE partis. Someday I will own one. You know, now that I think about it, I don't thing I've ever seen a mini or a toy parti, only standards. Smaller-size partis must exist, though. Or do they?


I was going to ask the exact same question! I would be very interested in seeing a silver mini parti.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

LEUllman said:


> I absolutely LOVE partis. Someday I will own one. You know, now that I think about it, I don't thing I've ever seen a mini or a toy parti, only standards. Smaller-size partis must exist, though. Or do they?


We have two minis on the forum  Todd and Panda.

And in poodles, multicolor is just called parti, harlequin is what they call it in danes.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I think black and white partis with ticking are gorgeous. I'm not sure I would ever get one as I'm not certain how I feel about getting a dog from a breeder who purposely breeds away from breed standard. That being said, if a gorgeous parti were to appear in rescue


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Mismarks happen in solid breedings all the time. When I was a kid, a lot of breeders would drown any mismarked puppies at birth. I am sure glad things have changed since then! Killing an otherwise perfectly healthy, wonderful pet should never be okay. Partis can be registered in the Canadian Kennel Club just as they are in the AKC, and shown in performance events, but not conformation events, as in the AKC.

I would implore anyone thinking they'd like a parti to only buy from reputable, knowledgable breeders who do health testing and know what is behind their dogs. Because of the number of colours that can be in the ancestry of a parti, there can be more health issues in them than in the in the solids. I think they are striking, but would never consider breeding them because doing it absolutely right is far too complicated. There are certainly people who ARE doing it right though and these are the people one should buy from.


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## Duennapoodles (Feb 23, 2011)

I like partis but I love phantoms. I own 2 of them. I can not wait until they old enough to show in UKC. I hope that CKC will jump on board and start letting us show parti and phantoms in their own variety. AH the dream.:angel:


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## Birdie (Jun 28, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Oooh, Birdie, I actually spoke to the owner of that dog you posted, his name is Dylan! Owner said that that picture was taken at 10 months, he's cleared to a black and BLUE parti!
> 
> http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z30/Gemmaz47/IMG01593.jpg


Ohhhh thank you so much!! I've always wanted to know who owned this dog! He grew up nicely- never would have thought he was a blue and white parti!


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## kuriooo (Feb 17, 2010)

I also love partis and phantoms... sigh.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> Mismarks happen in solid breedings all the time. When I was a kid, a lot of breeders would drown any mismarked puppies at birth. I am sure glad things have changed since then! Killing an otherwise perfectly healthy, wonderful pet should never be okay. Partis can be registered in the Canadian Kennel Club just as they are in the AKC, and shown in performance events, but not conformation events, as in the AKC.
> 
> I would implore anyone thinking they'd like a parti to only buy from reputable, knowledgable breeders who do health testing and know what is behind their dogs. Because of the number of colours that can be in the ancestry of a parti, there can be more health issues in them than in the in the solids. I think they are striking, but would never consider breeding them because doing it absolutely right is far too complicated. There are certainly people who ARE doing it right though and these are the people one should buy from.


IA - Culling pups for any reason is just sick and so are those that did it and still do it.

Parti's are disqualifying "color" and the breeders that are doing it right are super in tune with the lines of their dogs. They spend more money on color testing as well. It is so complicated, I know when I have spoken with Gloria/Tintlet a few times talking about this, I honestly was lost! Way over my head. 

I think the parti's are coming along, just like the reds they share a lot of the same concerns yet they are gorgeous dogs and all the ethical breeders are trying to do is improve the dog. I have seen better looking "disqualifying color" dogs with better confirmation than some solids - maybe thats a given but I think its speaks volumes from the good ole day standards that are still in place.

I would never turn my nose down over a color issue so long as the breeder is doing it right. Someone might miss out on a perfectly healthy dog by opting to stick with solids just because they cannot be shown.......Seems a bit lopsided to me.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

I think all of the partis we have here on the forum are Stunning! :]
and I think the breeders mentioned (Tintlet, Jacknic, Moxie) know exactly what they're doing, they have clear plans for their lines and are executing them well.

That being said...I personally don't like the look of partis XD
like...I like the dog Birdie and Fluffy posted, and I LOVE a few of Glorias dogs...but I absolutely hate ticking, I think it throws the entire look of the dog off (and not just in poodles...that goes for all breeds >.<)

I think if they're just as structurally sound, and meet the breed standard for conformation the pattern of a dog's coat should not be a disqualifying fault in poodles.


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Oooh, Birdie, I actually spoke to the owner of that dog you posted, his name is Dylan! Owner said that that picture was taken at 10 months, he's cleared to a black and BLUE parti!
> 
> http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z30/Gemmaz47/IMG01593.jpg


WOW! Now that's a color change.


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## taem (Mar 5, 2011)

Sort of related, I was reading an article today about how Crufts is going to allow a pointer-dalmation mix to show as a dalmation. Fiona the mongrel and a spot of bother at Crufts: 'Impure' dalmatian angers traditionalists at the elite pedigree dog show | Mail Online

It's Daily Mail though so it could be made up.

So why not partis? Seems weird to me. I used to not like browns or partis but after seeing some in person I realized they're gorgeous, I'm just used to solids, and browns are so rare they can seem odd in pictures. I also know people who think some poodle solids are actually partis with little contrast.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

while I find that article interesting, I think its a bit different than allowing partis into the show ring. That dalmatian is pretty much a mix (though...it doesn't say how far removed from the pointer she is...or give any further information on her XD)...and to allow a mix into a conformation show ring is pretty much laughable to me, conformation is a "sport" to evaluate breeding stock and even if there were benefits to breeding that dog to the other dalmatians in the UK it would not be producing dalmatians, but dalmatians with a splash of pointer in them.
To me that would be like a standard poodle breeder introducing a labradoodle to their lines to add some health back into it...instead of outcrossing to a completely different line of poodles(dalmatians in this case) they're introducing another breed...thats crazy XD

Partis however, are supposed to be one of the oldest "true colours" of the standard poodle (according to some poodle people) thus making them purebred poodles


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## poodlelover (Oct 19, 2008)

I love partis, I have one. He had no ticking when I got him , but he does now. I did not like the ticking at first, but I love him anyway and now I love the ticking.


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## creativeparti (Mar 9, 2009)

I love poodles parti solid the whole lot and I own one of each


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

poodlelover, he's gorgeous and I absolutely LOVE the ticking. I am obsessed with ticking, ha ha! If I wasn't planning on getting a show puppy next, I would definitely consider a parti from one of the very few parti breeders I would support. I disagree with the motive behind most parti breeders which is the biggest issue I have with purchasing a parti poodle. Someone like Gloria from Tintlet, though, I would definitely feel comfortable buying a parti puppy from.


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## taem (Mar 5, 2011)

Keithsomething said:


> while I find that article interesting, I think its a bit different than allowing partis into the show ring.


Oh yeah I agree. I didn't mean anything in particular, the thread just made me think of that article. Like, the objection to mixes would be whether there is a fixed standard you can evaluate against. Is that a part of the resistance against partis, that their coats are harder to evaluate? If they even are. Just wondering out loud.



> Partis however, are supposed to be one of the oldest "true colours" of the standard poodle (according to some poodle people) thus making them purebred poodles


I had never heard that. Interesting. I always thought white was first.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

I actually think you're spot on, I saw one member that hasn't posted in awhile. state that they didn't care for partis because 1. they were bred outside of the breed standard and 2. that the ticking and colour blotches throw off the line of the dog...
I disagree with that assessment, because if the judge were doing their jobs properly and feeling every dog in front of them...no matter the coat colour the most superb dog would win >.> but that may be barking up a different tree XD

have you seen the Poodle History site?
its basically said that because poodley looking dogs with black and white markings popped up in such and such artists work so many years ago that that must be around the time the poodle was created and the parti was one of the first, its quite interesting...but I'm not sure of the validity

Poodle History Project


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

well..I like the partis..lol 

actually I get more requests for solid puppies than partis. 

the ticking appears to be dominant, and the dogs gets more as it ages. I like the clear colors, but ticking doesn't bother me.

I started breeding partis after they were accepted by UKC. really don't get any flack from my AKC friends..most of them like partis too. But until PCA allows them to compete for Championships, there will be a stigma.


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## ItzaClip (Dec 1, 2010)

Keithsomething said:


> I think if they're just as structurally sound, and meet the breed standard for conformation the pattern of a dog's coat should not be a disqualifying fault in poodles.


especially when just a white blaze could prevent a stunning dog with good conformation-even amazing conformation from being shown in Canada....


I personally love the look of parti's though i'm a little funny on the markings being kinda even, i seem to prefer a solid-ish head and more larger patches then the smaller ticking, but when i looked at how most parti's are totally bred for money in large kennels, i shied away, how they are raised/tested/fed & trained is just too important for me, and canada is really lacking in the parti breeders(as far as i know anyhow)


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## lavillerose (Feb 16, 2011)

I think they're lovely, providing they get all the same health testing as solids. There will unfortunately always be BYB's who think breeding a "rare" color combo is gonna rake in the $$, but since they've been allowed in UKC and some other breed clubs around the world, I think more ethical breeders are working to improve the health and conformational issues, just as some are concentrating on improving reds (which I also adore). I personally don't see why eventually the major clubs couldn't accept them, even if they kept them as separate varieties. They do it with dachshunds (by size and coat type) and cockers (by color), and a few others. Of course, some of us think Standards ought to go back in with the sporting dogs where they belong as well! 

As a pet groomer, though, I see A LOT of really badly bred partis, particularly in toys and minis. Short legs, stocky, long bodies, bad teeth, crappy hair. The parti standards I've seen are much closer to type, but there aren't many of them around here.

Here's a gorgeous little phantom Mini in Europe. The photographer is from Sweden, but I'm unsure where the dog itself is from.
FCI 9 - Companions and toydogs by SaNNaS on deviantART


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## creativeparti (Mar 9, 2009)

That phantom is lovely


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## sandooch (Jan 20, 2011)

LEUllman said:


> I absolutely LOVE partis. Someday I will own one. You know, now that I think about it, I don't thing I've ever seen a mini or a toy parti, only standards. Smaller-size partis must exist, though. Or do they?


I frequent a toy poodle forum and I have seen one poster who has a cute little parti toy. So adorable!

Here's a picture of one I googled:


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## creativeparti (Mar 9, 2009)

sandooch said:


> I frequent a toy poodle forum and I have seen one poster who has a cute little parti toy. So adorable!
> 
> Here's a picture of one I googled:




I have a mini parti poodle Todd and panda is on here 2 and he's todds brother


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