# reactive dog woes



## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

well, Dipper is not really a grown up dog yet (18 months) but he despite my best training efforts (a LOT of training, private and classes) his reactivity has slowly gotten worse and worse. He has always freaked out about cats since the first one he ever saw (we don't have one, and don't have access to a friendly one...just the myriad strays roaming the neighborhood). for awhile he was reactive towards skateboards but that seems to have passed. Now it's motorcycles, most other dogs (although he loves to play so I think it is frustration more than aggression), and CATS. oh and sometimes birds. 

We're doing our best to train through it. On our walks I look for cats and other dogs that are at an appropriate distance so he doesn't go over threshold. It's (USUALLY) a fun challenge, and it seems like we're starting to make some slow progress, except when I inadvertently screw it up, like tonight. 

We had a nice, calm, structured walk. Passed another dog (on the opposite side of the street) with minimal excitement and good redirection (he looked at me when I asked for it, followed commands). Then when we made it to our block, I saw the little gray and white kitty that torments him from time to time out the window. It was sitting on the sidewalk opposite us. I thought, we can do this. Had to redirect Dipper a few times, but it went pretty well. So well that I thought "let's try it again!" and we took a wide circle, kept lots of distance, and went across the opposite street. (so we are still across the street from the cat, we were on a corner). 

Long story short, Dipper did great, until the %$^& cat RUNS AT US. It wound up in the street arching its back about 5 feet from us. I have to say, I never considered that scenario. It would've been hilarious, except that Dipper lost his damn mind and started screaming and yodeling like a beagle (or a strangled cat!). I'm not sure if he was scared or wanted to eat the cat, or both, but I was mortified, it sounded like I was killing him, I thought for a minute he might bite me, and I am completely defeated. I really wanted to have a dog I could take with me anywhere, and I got a puppy to be sure I could train it the way I wanted, and I feel like I've failed. Right now he is just not that dog. Sigh. Just venting! He's a great dog and I love him to pieces, but I really hope we can get through this and make some progress. Just venting, really. I don't really need training advice since I've read pretty much every reactivity protocol known to dog training and they all seem pretty similar. What I'd really like someone to tell me is that someday he'll get over it, but I'm becoming afraid that's not the case! 

Also, if people would keep their damn cats indoors our walks would be 75% easier. Sigh again. 
Wish us luck,
Jen and Dipper


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Yes, he will get over it. Probably not completely - he may always get really annoyed at a cat who deliberately teases him in the way this one did - but little by little it will get easier to get his attention and walk away. Wth Poppy it was chickens. When she was a puppy she had a hugely over excited time chasing chickens that had, without my knowing, wandered into my sister's garden. It was so rewarding that for a couple of years the rare occasions we saw hens had her straining on the leash desperate to get at them. But eventually she learned that it was not going to happen, and now she just takes a few hopeful looks and walks on. I still wouldn't trust her off leash around them though - not enough training opportunities to have got to that stage!

Don't let one exceptional event depress you too much - it sounds as if you are both doing so well, and heis still very young. Onwards and upwards - you can do this!


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

What would you do if a chimpanzee accosted you while walking (without Dipper) and jumped up and down menacingly threatening to attack you. Imagine you are on a leash held by your Mom. I guess you might behave a little like Dipper? He is doing OK. He needs to meet dog friendly cats in a safe environment.

I once had a similar experience with a stag-hound being trained. He slipped his collar (his neck was bigger than his head) The cat who had a penchant for teasing dogs was deceased within milliseconds. We walked quietly away from the scene. I got a harness for the dog who's name was Brutus. He was 100+ lbs of kill instinct.
Most cats have a lot more sense.

Eric


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Buck would have reacted to another animal taunting him like that. Buck is two and at the rate he's going, I'm taking a 3 year view to Poodle Perfect Feels ya!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Well now that was most unfortunate, but it was also instructive. Don't let it defeat you, use it as an opportunity to move forward. Continue being patient, go slowly and keep Dipper's experiences below his reactive threshold. Try to construct scenarios that will test and improve his attention to you and marking of the presence without reaction to other animals. As fjm said he may never be totally perfect, but that doesn't mean you won't get to a point where things are way way better.


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

Mfmst said:


> Buck would have reacted to another animal taunting him like that. Buck is two and at the rate he's going, I'm taking a 3 year view to Poodle Perfect Feels ya!


Ha! I've thought the same thing--we're on the three year plan as well. Then it'll be time to get another puppy and start the madness all over again &#55357;&#56860;


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

Thanks for the support! We'll continue plugging away of course, and hope things will continue to improve. And attempt to avoid the local off leash cat population, lol!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

JenO said:


> Ha! I've thought the same thing--we're on the three year plan as well. Then it'll be time to get another puppy and start the madness all over again ��


Lily gained a tremendous amount of maturity during the summer before her third birthday. I don't think she would have been a good puppy mentor at that point though. She (and Peeves) and Javelin are closer to 6 1/2 years apart in age. They would have been fine if Javelin had arrived when they were four or five years apart in age, but the right puppy and a few other things didn't come together at that point.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Tonka was doing his MoanBark at the patio door yesterday. Sure 'nuff, it's a neighbour's cat come to check out my fish pond. I opened the door, and Tonka came pouring out to check out the cat. The cat didn't stay to meet him. :devil:


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

lily cd re said:


> Lily gained a tremendous amount of maturity during the summer before her third birthday. I don't think she would have been a good puppy mentor at that point though. She (and Peeves) and Javelin are closer to 6 1/2 years apart in age. They would have been fine if Javelin had arrived when they were four or five years apart in age, but the right puppy and a few other things didn't come together at that point.


That's a good point. Plus I don't think I'll be ready to do it all over again quite that soon ?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

When the timing is right the older dog can be a great asset. I think I would have gone insane if I had added a puppy when Lily and Peeves were just barely adults themselves. I could so easily imagine that they would have used a puppy's silliness as an excuse for their own retrograde silliness.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> When the timing is right the older dog can be a great asset. I think I would have gone insane if I had added a puppy when Lily and Peeves were just barely adults themselves. I could so easily imagine that they would have used a puppy's silliness as an excuse for their own retrograde silliness.



Oh, this is interesting - all of my Toys have been grown - ups by age two. I am looking at having Timi as a huge asset if we do get that puppy! It must be a Spoo vs Toy thing (I hope I am not wrong lol)!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I do think spoos are rather notorious for not really collecting their heads until they are three. It isn't that they just act like puppies all the time when younger than that, but seeing puppies calls to their inner child.


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## StormeeK (Aug 3, 2015)

I, too, have been there with the reactivity and the screaming. Dewey was the worst between his 1st and 2nd birthday. The bigger the dog the more he screamed. It truly sounded like I was killing him just like you described. He is now almost 2 1/2 and has gotten much better - there is hope! No more screaming but still occasional barking. We still have work to do. Last week at the annual vet check we were waiting so nicely for our turn, watching dogs come and go, then in walked the Irish Wolfhound... It was extremely embarrassing. I'm on the 3 year plan also. Good Luck!


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

:angry: Ugh, those darn cat owners! Does draining Dipper of all that energy have any impact on his reactivity? Zooey is very reactive, but if I get her worn out, she is so much better.


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

zooeysmom said:


> :angry: Ugh, those darn cat owners! Does draining Dipper of all that energy have any impact on his reactivity? Zooey is very reactive, but if I get her worn out, she is so much better.


That is a great point, and one of the things I've been having trouble with. Since he's become so reactive it's tough finding a good way to tire him out, so maybe it's becoming a cycle (not tired enough = more reactive = shorter walks, etc)...walks are tough because it takes a LOOONG walk to tire him out, and it's a total crap shoot on how many stray cats/other dogs (possibly loose) we'll run into, and I am trying to manage his exposure at this point to make all of those experiences positive and keep him below threshold (which I totally failed at last night, the world is so unpredictable lol!)
There is one good trail (about a 4.5 mile loop) that we do sometimes and we usually only run into one other dog on the loop, but unfortunately the walk in from the road to the loop is a half mile gauntlet of on and off leash dogs, which is NOT good for us right now (if other people would control their off leash dogs it'd be do-able, but I don't want to make his reactivity worse by letting an off leash dog get in his face--it has already happened a couple of times and I think it contributed to the problem). It's pretty much the same story anywhere you go around here--lots of off leash dogs and owners that don't really care. The neighborhood is good for on-leash walks but I don't have a place I can take Dipper to really let him run and tire him out. So we've been doing a lot of short walks and fetch in the yard, which doesn't really feel like enough. I want to teach him to run beside my bike (and we have an attachment for it) but I am hesitant because of the cat thing (they are everywhere around here!)
I used to take him to the dog park but I have seen too many sketchy dogs there, and although he loves to play, he doesn't get along with every dog--and when he takes offense he snarks right back, he doesn't back off. He has a couple dogs he's played with before and actually just texted the owner of one so we can do a walk soon and maybe get them together to play in the yard. 
So basically if anyone has creative advice on how to tire a dog out without unwanted exposure to other dogs and cats, let me know!!! He does have a flirt pole type toy that he LOVES, maybe I could just run him in circles in the yard for awhile before attempting a walk?
I just need a giant fenced field with no cats or dogs where we could run and play, oh man, I would be so happy!

Lastly I wanted to thank everyone for being so kind and non-judgmental! I love dog people but usually when you post about training or behavior online at least one person has to tell you that you're doing it all wrong  I definitely don't mind advice as long as it's polite, it's just that I already beat myself up enough about everything that goes wrong! So I appreciate the commiseration (and it is really reassuring to know about the "3 years to maturity" thing, a number of you said that!) ideas, and reassurance. 
I think today we're going to do some running around in the yard, some training, and a very short walk...hopefully no attack cats this time!


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Play dates with well-socialized dogs in a big yard is a great way to get his energy out, as is the flirt pole. Also, I would do at least 15 minutes of obedience training with him every day. I find that walks actually energize Maizie, but a good free run or playing with other dogs gets her nice and tired.


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

zooeysmom said:


> Play dates with well-socialized dogs in a big yard is a great way to get his energy out, as is the flirt pole. Also, I would do at least 15 minutes of obedience training with him every day. I find that walks actually energize Maizie, but a good free run or playing with other dogs gets her nice and tired.


Great advice, I need to get in touch with some of the people I met in our last class and try to have a play date. We just did half an hour of fetch and flirt pole in the yard and then a short walk (didn't see any other dogs or cats, probably best for tonight!) so that worked well. 

Where did you get Maizie? I am also in CA (up in Humboldt County). She is such a pretty silver!


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Thank you--she is from Lacy Lane in Utah. How about Dipper? I guess we'll be a little closer to you when we move up to Chico


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

he is from Five Star Poodles in Sacramento--after searching for awhile and having a couple of leads not pan out I found him on their website--he was the last pup left and 9 weeks old, so we drove down to get him the next day! I feel like we lucked out because I didn't have time to do much research on the breeder, but I had heard a couple good things on here and she turned out to be very good. He's my first dog and it has been an exciting crash course in the wonderful world of standard poodles  if we end up getting another in a few years I would like a female, and I love the silvers <3


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## seminolewind (Mar 11, 2016)

I know how you feel JenO. My training is going okay, but my dog vomits in the car. I wonder how much of a go-everywhere dog she'll be. Maybe she'll outgrow it at some point.


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

The book Control Unleashed has a lot of great advice and activities for reactive dogs. Check it out!

--Q


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

seminolewind said:


> I know how you feel JenO. My training is going okay, but my dog vomits in the car. I wonder how much of a go-everywhere dog she'll be. Maybe she'll outgrow it at some point.


I bet she will outgrow it...Dipper used to get carsick and now he never does. It's a pain though, for sure!


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

I'll see if I have that one...I know I've looked at it! The protocols are all very similar and I got a little burned out on dog training books but I should give it another go. thanks!


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

Quossum said:


> The book Control Unleashed has a lot of great advice and activities for reactive dogs. Check it out!
> 
> --Q


hmm, I checked and I don't have that one. I think I will order it.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Couple of ideas - can you drive to the start of the dog free trail? Seems silly, I know, when it is so close, but it would get you past all the loose dogs. I have to drive everywhere, as the road outside is impossibly dangerous. 

Hunt the treat is a really good way of wearing a dog out - a round or two in the house or garden may help before a walk. It leaves mine relaxed and a bit tired - just the state you need!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

To tire Dipper out I also really like the flirt pole. Javelin has really benefited from having one. And I agree that formal training where you really up the ante on making Dipper think about what he is doing will make him more easily focused on you for a couple of reasons. First it is tiring even though many people don't understand that it is. I think brain work is even more tiring than simple physical exercise. Second the outcomes of the training are a dog that is more focused and attentive to you and who will listen better when there are distractions.


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

well we had a great training session with our local trainer today...it's such a funny problem...Dipper can heel past a bubbly 7 month old chocolate lab within a couple feet with no problem but loses his mind at the border collie chasing a tennis ball half a sports field away from him. I told our trainer the cat story and he was super nice about it (saw the humor and said ALL trainers have those moments--you just chalk it up and move on)
Dipper's attention span and ability to "recover" from distractions is getting MUCH better though. I just need to stop feeling sorry for myself and get over the fact that I can't do EVERYTHING I want to do with him right NOW, but hopefully with some hard work we will get there in time.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

For what it's worth, when Hans hit 2.5 years old it was like a switch flipped in his brain and all the training came together at once. So don't give up, I don't think Dipper is all grown up yet.


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

FireStorm said:


> For what it's worth, when Hans hit 2.5 years old it was like a switch flipped in his brain and all the training came together at once. So don't give up, I don't think Dipper is all grown up yet.


Thanks! I keep hearing that from people (2.5 - 3 years is the magic cutoff for grown up poodle time)! and it makes me feel SO much better. He really is a great pup and we've made lots of progress, and he's DEFINITELY not all grown up yet.


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

oh and thank you to Quossom (?) who suggested Control Unleashed, I got it in the mail today from Amazon and it looks great. More food for thought.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Another 3 year plan SPOO over here! Some days it seems like everything is really coming together, and then we have a day when everything seems as usual and we pass a dog we've passed every day for a week without incident and suddenly Dulcie loses her mind. Or even worse, a skateboard on the sidewalk. I totally feel your pain!

One thing I find helps me to get past the feelings of dismay and personal failure is to look back over the past year or so and recall just how Dulcie and I have come. Day to day and even week to week, it is hard to see the progress, and the sporadic set backs seem to suggest that we are getting NOWHERE. But it isn't true. We are light years better than we were a year ago with attention, loose leash walking and so forth. I look at all the great things my girl HAS accomplished, and then the occasional lapses with one or two problem areas don't seem quite so monumental.

Hang in there!


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

nifty said:


> Another 3 year plan SPOO over here! Some days it seems like everything is really coming together, and then we have a day when everything seems as usual and we pass a dog we've passed every day for a week without incident and suddenly Dulcie loses her mind. Or even worse, a skateboard on the sidewalk. I totally feel your pain!
> 
> One thing I find helps me to get past the feelings of dismay and personal failure is to look back over the past year or so and recall just how Dulcie and I have come. Day to day and even week to week, it is hard to see the progress, and the sporadic set backs seem to suggest that we are getting NOWHERE. But it isn't true. We are light years better than we were a year ago with attention, loose leash walking and so forth. I look at all the great things my girl HAS accomplished, and then the occasional lapses with one or two problem areas don't seem quite so monumental.
> 
> Hang in there!


thanks! it's so true!
and btw Dulcie is sooo pretty! :in-love:


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

As much as a spoo will be a good dog at one year old, they really truly start to become great dogs at about three years old. This has been very true for Lily who even at her 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th birthdays has been a spectacularly more wonderful dog than the year before.

Poor Javvy, poor me...two years to get to his third birthday.


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