# Behaviour after neutering



## patricia. b (11 mo ago)

hi there..i've just joined this forum, although i've been lurking for a few weeks. my 6 month old miniature, Charlie, was neutered 2 wks ago, i've just removed that dreadful cone, and something is wrong..he was ok the first week he wore it,. but then he started to go around in circles, became disoriented,& gradually stopped responding to his name, which he knows very well. since he's no longer wearing the cone, he's become very very clingy, still going in circles & sometimes acts as if he can't see food when i offer it by hand..sometimes when i call his name he acts as if he hears me, but he can't find me..i'm right beside him ..i 'm not sure if this is all caused by stress, or has he suffered brain damage because of the surgery...when i cuddle him, he's absolutely still, relaxed, & falls asleep, so he feels safe with me, thank God! he's eating , drinking , peeing & pooping ok, after i help him figure out where things are..i should mention that the vet is new to me, so i don't know how good he is..it's very difficult to get a vet now...have any of you had similar experience..any suggestions are greatly appreciated..thank you


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Welcome to you and Charlie. 

I'm sure you're as distressed as he is right now, but it's unlikely it's truly anything serious. He's had the cone on longer than most of us manage and those cones can be quite disorienting, especially to hearing. 

If there were neurological problems related to the surgery, they'd probably have been evident very soon after. 

He's eating, drinking and eliminating normally after he gets oriented, so that's positive. 

See if you can get a video of the behavior to send or show the vet and call them when they open to check with them. I'll be surprised if he doesn't show some improvement by then just having the cone off finally. 

I'm sure some other members will drop by with ideas or experiences. Stay in touch and let us know what the vet says, please.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Welcome, @patricia. b. Based on what you’ve described—the going around in circles, not seeing food—I’ll be honest.... I would be worried, too. You know your little guy best, and you know when something is wrong.

What does your vet say?

We had a retriever in our puppy class who suffered post-surgical psychosis. As I understand it, it wasn’t caused by the surgery itself, but rather the medication he was prescribed afterwards.


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## I_love_dogs (May 30, 2021)

Is he licking where his stitches were a lot? Loki goes in circles to catch his tail to fix his hair after I have brushed it. For a little while after he got his cone off, he was circling around trying to lick where his stitches were. He is very bendy so he usually only circled a couple of times before he managed to find the correct position.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I would talk to the vet who did the surgery as soon as possible and see what they think. It’s definitely not a normal behavior.


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## patricia. b (11 mo ago)

I_love_dogs said:


> Is he licking where his stitches were a lot? Loki goes in circles to catch his tail to fix his hair after I have brushed it. For a little while after he got his cone off, he was circling around trying to lick where his stitches were. He is very bendy so he usually only circled a couple of times before he managed to find the correct position.


Hi Everyone..Sorry to be so slow in replying, but Charlie took up all my time...I'm sad to tell you he died ..the vet turned out to be VERY conscientious..at one visit, there were 3 vets examining him..all very concerned, very gentle with Charlie an appt was made with a specialist in a different city, but Charlie went downhill very rapidly, and started to have internal pain, so when the vet demonstrated that Charlie had lost all feeling in all four legs, was almost completely blind, no bladder control I made that dreadful decision to. say goodbye to the sweetest soul I've ever known..my poor, poor boy was only 6 1/2 months old...I can't stop crying...the cause was 'genetic neurological condition"..that caused the circling, confusion, etc. I thought I was being careful when I bought him, but I wasn't careful enough...but I'm NOT sorry I had him with me ..he taught me so much in a short length of time..I have many, many sweet memories..sometime I'll share them. I've been absolutely crazy with grief ever since the parting, but I've come to realize I simply can't live a life without a dog (I'm an elderly widow in a wheelchair, & live alone)..I've had dogs all my life, so I just reserved a red poodle puppy who'll be here in 2 1/2 months..hopefully he'll be healthy. I've got a better set up for him, & I'll be using the lessons Charlie taught me..I've been struggling to find. a name for him, but nothing was working for me until I realized I could call him Charlie Too...that soothes my heart..it feels like Charlie has a second chance..me too. Does that seem crazy to you? Thanks for your responses ..they made me feel not so alone...I appreciated that, and thought of you all many times during this rough patch


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Oh Patricia.  I’m so sorry. I’m so sad for you and little Charlie.

There’s nothing crazy about how you’re feeling or your name idea. Charlie, Too is very sweet. And it’s quite likely a nickname will emerge that will be unique to his personality and your relationship.

Sending you a big virtual hug.

Be sure to post any questions you have about preparing for your new puppy, or even just share your excitement with us. We’re here for you and always ready to share in the joys and the sadnesses of poodle life.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

I’m so sad to hear of your very difficult journey and loss. What a shock that all must have been. I hope you continue to join us here and that you share more of Charlie the First and Charlie the Second as you feel ready and able to.


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## Looniesense (Jul 10, 2021)

So so sorry to hear that your little guy passed away. I got tears in my eyes reading your e-mail. I lost my 13 year old standard poodle in Dec. 2020 and just like you it didn’t take long for me to know that I needed another dog to fill that empty space. You certainly can call the new pup Charlie if that’s what your heart is telling you to do. I look forward to hearing more news from you and all about your new pup.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I am so very sorry - what a devastating outcome. I hope Charlie Too brings comfort, and helps to fill the aching void. I too would love to hear more about him, and about Charlie One when you are ready.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Oh no. How devastating. 
I don't see that it's anyone's business but yours what you call your next puppy. I've known several people who have used the same name a second time.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I have tears in my eyes too. I’m glad you’re celebrating his short life and taking the lessons he taught you with a new Charlie Two to help heal your broken heart.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

What a bittersweet post. I am so sorry for what you and sweet Charlie went through, and I'm wishing you and Charlie Too many happy years together.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

We feel your pain and grief by remembering our own. Charlie was blessed to have you as you were by him. 

Sending strength, peace and comfort to you, as well as the joy of hope with Charlie Too.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

So sorry Charlie had to say goodbye. Bless you.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

I am so very sorry for your loss. It is devastating to lose a puppy. Charlie will be forever in your heart. Do not worry what others think of the name you choose. You have plenty of time still before the new puppy comes home - maybe a new name will feel like the one or maybe you will let go of your doubt over the name Charlie Too.

If you care for options, Charles has many alternatives.


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## PowersPup (Aug 28, 2020)

I am so sorry that you lost your pup. I admire your resolve to get another one, and wish you all the happiness a new puppy can bring!


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

I'm so sorry for your devastating loss. My heart aches for you. I hope your new puppy brings you much comfort and joy.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

So sorry for your loss. I don't doubt Charlie knew he was loved well and that love lives on in your heart. I am looking forward to following your next journey with Charlie too. Virtual hugs


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## MiniMojo (Aug 20, 2021)

Patricia, my heart breaks for you. What a terrible, unexpected loss. I hope your anticipation for Charlie Too can help to soften your grief. You are definitely not alone. ❤


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## patricia. b (11 mo ago)

Many thanks all..I am struggling with so many difficult thoughts & feelings, I feel the need to share..I didn't mention in my original post, but a few months before I got Charlie, I lost my 2 long haired chihuahuas..half brothers , 16, 17 yrs old ..I got Charlie to help fill that void, & then I lost him....now there's just me & my elderly cat..who, BTW, is delighted to have me all to herself..I have my new puppy on reserve... the breeder is CKC registered..I checked...she seems very nice, but I am terrified that I will get stung again..she won't take a deposit until he's vet checked at 8 wks, so I still have time to change my mind..there are many pics of puppies on her site...she sends me a new one every week, & posts it on her site, along with his litter mates.she's in a different province so the puppy. will fly to me..I was concerned about hypoglycemia (sp?) but she said there were no traces of it in the parents' line...does that make sense to you? I thought all small (he's a toy) puppies were in danger of low blood. sugar when under stress..I realize I'm probably paranoid over my losses this year, & I'm afraid to trust anyone..I'm so upset these days that I'm beginning to doubt my ability to raise a dog, even tho' I've seldom been without one or more, & they've mostly lived out their full life time..I just found out that Hillhaven Poodles has some young retired. adults available..has anyone bought one of their puppies? I believe she docks their. tails & removes dewclaws..I've never heard of that before..can you share thoughts about that? Since I'm in a wheelchair, I thought it best to get a puppy that would adjust to the WC faster than a young adult, but I could be wrong about that...I could share other thoughts , but I've already written plenty..have any of you been afraid you were making the wrong decision before you got your puppy? thanks for sticking with me..hopefully I can post happier news in the future..


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

I can't answer your question about what would be better. So much depends on the young adults' exposure out in the world when young.

Charlie's loss is still very new, and I'm really happy you have been able to take steps to bring in his successor to raise. Please keep taking care of yourself. Maybe consider visiting some of the pet loss websites, too.


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## patricia. b (11 mo ago)

Thanks, Streetcar..I'm glad you mentioned outdoor exposure..I think a puppy would accept the WC as being a normal part of his world since everything he. sees is new, & that would not be the case with a young adult....I appreciate your encouragement about getting another poodle..I needed that..I'll look into the pet loss sites..I didn't know there were any...you made me feel much better....


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

I think you sound like a very responsible and caring person. The sorrow you feel at the loss of your loved furry friends is very important to embrace. I agree with @ streetcar, that by allowing yourself to embrace the loss, will help you in accepting the loss. Life really isn't all that fair. However a new pup will thrive on the love you clearly are able to give. The breeder sounds wonderful sending you pictures every week. Please don't doubt yourself as an owner or the breeder who seems very fair not asking for a deposit before the vet check. I've never experienced that before but it sounds very fair and responsible.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

patricia. b said:


> I was concerned about hypoglycemia (sp?) but she said there were no traces of it in the parents' line...does that make sense to you? I thought all small (he's a toy) puppies were in danger of low blood. sugar


Your caution is completely understandable, as is your desire to have a loving ball of fur in your life. 

The breeder's statement is puzzling. Hypoglycemia more of a physics issue than a heritable one. 

Diabetes, Cushings, conditions like that might run in a line but hypoglycemia is just not getting enough glucose to operate the brain. I hope this was just a miscommunication. 

_"Toy breeds are particularly vulnerable because these little guys have more brain mass per body weight compared to other breeds. They need more glucose for their size to maintain proper brain function."

"These itty bitty babies tend to cut their baby teeth in late and thus have trouble chewing kibbled foods. They also have difficulty maintaining body temperature which promotes listlessness as they get cold. Both these factors combine into reduced food intake and difficulty keeping up normal blood sugar levels. Low blood sugar, which is called hypoglycemia, creates even more listlessness. Because the brain cannot burn fat or protein and relies almost entirely on sugar, the potential result includes incoordination, loss of consciousness and even seizures. _

As for the deposit policy, breeders handle these as they choose. Some won't take deposits until the pups are born, some take deposits to serve as commitment by the buyer to be added to their waitlist even tho there may not be puppies for months into the future. The policy's vary. 



patricia. b said:


> the breeder is CKC registered..I checked...she seems very nice, but I am terrified that I will get stung again..she won't take a deposit until he's vet checked at 8 wks, so I still have time to change my mind..there are many pics of puppies on her site...she sends me a new one every week, & posts it on her site, along with his litter mates.she's a different province so the puppy. will fly to me..I


Several things you wrote cause me to ask more questions. 

If this breeder was a US breeder using the AKC registry to declare purebred status of the dogs, they still wouldn't be an AKC registered breeder. There actually is no such thing as an AKC registered breeder. Only dogs are AKC registered, 

The CKC refers to "Member Breeders". 

_CKC Member Breeders are required to adhere to mandatory standards and requirements relating to the proper breeding, maintenance and selling of their puppies outlined in the CKC Code of Ethics and Code of Practice for CKC Member Breeders. _

The only list I find related to that is this:
The Puppy List (ckc.ca) 

Is this where you found her?



This leads to my next question which is "What health testing has the breeder done on the dam and sire?"

The Poodle Club of Canada or your local/province Poodle Club will be able to tell you what their recommended testing is. The site references the OFA so if they follow the same recommendations as the Poodle Club of America, those tests will be:


*Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)*
DNA-based prcd-PRA (Progressive Rod-Cone Degeneration) test from an approved laboratory; results registered with OFA ➚
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Patellar Luxation*
OFA Evaluation, minimum age 1 year ➚

Regarding the photos, is it many pictures of just one or two litters or many pictures of many different puppies and litters? 

I understand why flying might be necessary, but how would the puppy be flown? The only acceptable way is in-cabin with a flight nanny supervising and monitoring the puppy from start to your hands. The airlines may allow no less regardless but these are things to get spelled out prior. I'd also request a copy of the sales contract and any health warranty offered. 

None of this means this breeder is a wrong choice but having these answers before you commit should be helpful for you. 

On the other breeder who docks tails and removes dew claws, I don't have this memorized but IIRC, not all areas of Canada prohibit either. You'll need to check the regs for their area.


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## patricia. b (11 mo ago)

Minie said:


> I think you sound like a very responsible and caring person. The sorrow you feel at the loss of your loved furry friends is very important to embrace. I agree with @ streetcar, that by allowing yourself to embrace the loss, will help you in accepting the loss. Life really isn't all that fair. However a new pup will thrive on the love you clearly are able to give. The breeder sounds wonderful sending you pictures every week. Please don't doubt yourself as an owner or the breeder who seems very fair not asking for a deposit before the vet check. I've never experienced that before but it sounds very fair and responsible.


Thanks for the vote of confidence..mine is at a low ebb right now. I'm still undecided about going ahead with buying from this breeder..she sounds great on some points, questionable on others ..unfortunately, there are few tp breeders to begin with...and way too many unreliable ones..it's very discouraging..at times like this, it's heartening to know that there are caring people like yourself and the rest of the group here on PF...


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## patricia. b (11 mo ago)

Rose n Poos said:


> Your caution is completely understandable, as is your desire to have a loving ball of fur in your life.
> 
> The breeder's statement is puzzling. Hypoglycemia more of a physics issue than a heritable one.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the info, and responding so quickly..I did find the breeder on the puppy list,,she's in Manitoba, I'm in Ontario..I can only answer some of your questions at this time..I'm waiting for the contract papers to arrive in Canada Post..she wanted me to sign the copy she sent by email, but she hadn't filled in the price amount, & there was no way I would sign that, so I asked her to send me a hard copy..she didn't argue the point, & said she would mail a copy for me to sign with the amount we had agreed on filled in ..we'll see..re the photos, there are at least 10 bitches, & maybe 6-7 dogs in her breeding program..photos of all of them and their litters, many of the pups taken every week. There's also many pics of "happy owners" some with very good comments about her customer service both before & after they get their puppy. these pics are obviously taken in different locations with happy people holding lovely pups. I don't know what to think. When I talk to her she sounds very caring .If it's a good pup, I don't want to lose it, but I don' want more of the grief I'm going through..you're kindness is more helpful than I can express..I'm trying to put head above heart, but I'm so confused...


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

If you don’t want to post it here, consider sending a message to Rose with the name of the breeder. She is super knowledgeable and may be able to help. (Hope you don’t mind me saying that, @Rose n Poos!)

I am very wary of breeders with “customer service” reviews. I want a puppy who’s been raised underfoot by a passionate preservationist breeder, not churned out as part of a big business. Are all those poodles kept in her home?

And can she provide you with the results of those tests Rose listed?

Given your recent heartbreaks, I want to ensure whatever puppy finds his or her way to you has gotten the very best start to life.


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## patricia. b (11 mo ago)

thanks for that, how do I do that? I just got to her by clicking on her name, but it isn't private..any help is appreciated.....


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

If researching and selecting a quality, conscientious breeder is either new to you or it's been a while, here's some tips. 

There are US references, with Canadian info and links at the end, but a quality breeder isn't location dependent. Their characteristics are the same everywhere. 

You can also read information directly from one of our members who is a very well-respected breeder here.


*We often hear from folks that they just want a pet.*
What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that the quality, conscientious breeders are _always _breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions but are flawless to us .

*It's not unusual to think that there are possibly thousands of breeders to choose from.*
For quality, conscientious breeders, that number is more likely only in the hundreds in the US and Canada. A bottom-line difference is between those who are breeding primarily for profit and those who are breeding because they feel not only love for poodles but an obligation to the entire breed. Each of their, usually infrequent, breeding's are thoughtfully chosen to try to improve something in their lines and consequently the future of the breed.

*About reviews*,
a happy owner doesn't necessarily mean an informed owner. It's as likely they've just been lucky, so far. Review any negative comments carefully, if they're allowed to appear.

*Getting a puppy from a quality, conscientious breeder is something like insurance.*
Their investment in the health, welfare, and soundness of all the dogs in their care including the puppies they offer to new homes is part of the reason you're not likely to find a less than $2000 USD puppy from them.

*The saying is "pay the breeder or pay the vet".*
Price alone isn't the only thing to separate quality breeders from those less than. We've seen members quote as high, and even much higher pricing for pups from parents not health tested, not proven to meet breed standards, sold as purebred when only a DNA test could determine that since they may be sold without registration papers.

If I knew the risks and have dedicated poodle health savings of several thousand dollars or pet insurance, knew that basically that the breeder and I would part ways as soon as the pup was in my hands because they're very unlikely to stand behind their pup and me thru the pups life, I might proceed with a breeder that doesn't meet my criteria.

But

_I also wouldn't pay quality breeder prices, and over, unless I'm getting all the quality breeder perks._


*Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder. *The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

*Look for and verify OFA/CHIC level testing at a minimum. The recommended testing by The Poodle Club of America is a mix of physical exams and, for miniatures and toys there is also one DNA test.*

The OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) registers testing from other countries as well as from the US.

There are additional poodle specific DNA panels for other testable genetic conditions.
Those are companion tests with the OFA/CHIC testing, not in place of.

CHIC Program | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)
Browse By Breed | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

Toy Poodle recommended testing from the PCA with results listed on OFA

*Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)*
DNA-based test from an approved laboratory; results registered with OFA ➚
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Patellar Luxation*
OFA Evaluation, minimum age 1 year ➚

Miniature Poodle (just in case you expand your choices)

*Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)*
DNA-based test from an approved laboratory; results registered with OFA ➚
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Patellar Luxation*
OFA evaluation, minimum age 1 year ➚
*Hip Dysplasia* (One of the following)
OFA Evaluation ➚
PennHIP Evaluation
The PRA test is a DNA test. The others are physical exams done by a qualified vet.
The DNA panels are nice and have helpful info but should not be accepted as the only health testing.

*A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy*
doesn't have much to back it if the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety recommended by the Poodle Club of America. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

*Read thru any contracts that may be listed*.
If they rule out coverage for health conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?

*Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times*
and that wait is stretched well into 2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs, 9-5 paying job, and family, rather than keep a website updated.

*When you start making contacts*, let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.

*Color preferences* are understandable but keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies.
That beautiful color you fell for may not look the same in a few weeks, or months, or years. Most poodle colors fade.

*Gender preferences* will also limit your options.

*Temperament and personality* are lifelong traits.

*Be prepared to spend* in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

*Be prepared to travel* outside your preferred area.

*As a very general rule, websites to be leery of are*
those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience". A breeder using marketing terms like teacup, royal, giant don't really know poodles in relation to the breed standard. Pricing differently for size or color is also marketing.

*Be wary of a breeder who sells a puppy with full registration rights
(*breeding rights which allow the next generation of pups to be registered with the AKC) simply for the price of admission. A responsible breeder will not allow their reputation and their poodles to be bred by anyone, to any dog, without having a contractual say in the breeding and the pups. They will want to be involved.

*One additional caution, be very wary of those very cute short legged poodles.*
That's a genetic mutation which may carry serious life-altering disease.

An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. An online search for "Poodle Club of ___ (your city or state/province)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.



As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, this is my shortlist criteria.

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come.
_Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is well bred._


Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time 

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards physically and temperamentally and are sound by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.


To start a search for a breeder, use the official Poodle Clubs first. PF has a lot of resources to view also, and individual recommendations will be made too. Compare those to the information above for a good shot at a quality, conscientious breeder and a happy, healthy poodle.

-----

A note on "Champion bloodlines" or variations of...

The phrase "Championship _lines_" is nearly meaningless unless, as Phaz23 points out, the dam and sire are the champions, and their dams and sires...

"Championship" counts in the conformation ring, to prove that each generation is meeting the breed standard. It's not a given, an inherent trait that gets passed down.



Canada
Microsoft Word - PCC2022Breeders 3 20 22.doc (poodleclubcanada.club)

*Canada

Canadian Kennel Club*
CKC | Purebred Puppies, Dog Competitions, Show Dog Events | CKC
*Poodle Club Of Canada*
Poodle – Poodle club of Canada
*Ottawa Valley Poodle Club*
Ottawa Valley Poodle Club – Serving Ottawa and Surrounding Areas
*Poodle Club of Ontario*
Poodle Club Of Ontario
*Poodle Club of Alberta*
Poodle Club of Alberta
*Canada’s Guide to Dogs - Poodle*
Standard Poodle Clubs - Canada's Guide to Dogs


*Breeder Listings

Multi Provinces

Poodle Club of Canada Breeder List*
Microsoft Word - PCC2022Breeders 3 20 22.doc (poodleclubcanada.club)
*Canadian Kennel Club Breeder List*
Puppy List & Approved Breeders | CKC
*Ottawa Valley Poodle Club Breeder List*
Breeder Listing – Ottawa Valley Poodle Club


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

patricia. b said:


> thanks for that, how do I do that? I just got to her by clicking on her name, but it isn't private..any help is appreciated.....


Click on her name and the option to message her will pop up. Or if you go to her profile, click “Start conversation.”


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Breeders selling thru the breed registry marketplaces such as the AKC (American Kennel Club) and even the CKC (Canadian Kennel Club) are not _*automatically*_ to be considered already vetted as quality conscientious breeders.

Any person hoping to buy from a breeder who's doing all they can to send out the very best dogs in every litter will need to know themselves what it takes to do that and then compare that breeder to that standard.

This is why the official Poodle Clubs are a better source for information and recommendations. They are held to more stringent standards than the breed registries have.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Also, when breeding for undersize or oversize as a priority rather than soundness of structure, health, and temperament, health and structure are frequently negatively affected. At the least, orthopedic disorders may increase by shrinking or stretching the normal genetic range.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Virtual hugs for you in the difficult time.
I know you desperate for a new companion, and frustrated and scared that getting another poodle will end in disaster and are overwhelmed by what you need to know to find the right pup and you doubt yourself and doubt every breeder.
Take a deep breath and make a list, Rose n Poos is quite knowledgeable.
Remember we all make mistakes, just have to learn from them and know there is a poodle out there for you it just may take some waiting on your part, and a healthy happy well bred poodle is worth waiting for.
I lost my best buddy last year after years of so many medical issues, Beatrice was only 7 1/2 years old bought from a byb three days after the tragic loss of my first poodle Baby 8yrs who had to be euthanized after a freak fall left her paralyzed from the neck down.


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## patricia. b (11 mo ago)

Rose n Poos said:


> Breeders selling thru the breed registry marketplaces such as the AKC (American Kennel Club) and even the CKC (Canadian Kennel Club) are not _*automatically*_ to be considered already vetted as quality conscientious breeders.
> 
> Any person hoping to buy from a breeder who's doing all they can to send out the very best dogs in every litter will need to know themselves what it takes to do that and then compare that breeder to that standard.
> 
> This is why the official Poodle Clubs are a better source for information and recommendations. They are held to more stringent standards than the breed registries have.





Rose n Poos said:


> If researching and selecting a quality, conscientious breeder is either new to you or it's been a while, here's some tips.
> 
> There are US references, with Canadian info and links at the end, but a quality breeder isn't location dependent. Their characteristics are the same everywhere.
> 
> ...


OH, my gosh!! I'm speechless..thank you SO much for taking the time to do all this: I think everyone who's new to looking for a puppy should read this..I can't thank you enough..I've read so often.."find a reliable breeder..do your research" but the writer never tells you how to do that. I spent months trying to do exactly that, & failed miserably..I'm going to cancel my reserved puppy..the breeder hits too many bad boxes for me, & even more after scanning your post. I'm nervous about doing that, but I haven't signed anything, or paid any money. I've had more thoughts since I first posted here, & realize my grief was getting in the way of my thinking..I was hoping (I guess) that getting a new puppy would keep me distracted from the pain..that's not fair to the pup or me..going through all the options you've pointed out will help clear my head, Thank you once again..I won't get my puppy, but my mind will be a little bit easier.."any decision is better than no decision", & I feel much better following your suggestions..May I give you a hug?


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

First quickly with more later...



patricia. b said:


> I've read so often.."find a reliable breeder..do your research" but the writer never tells you how to do that. I spent months trying to do exactly that, & failed miserably..


You haven't failed, you're learning.  Big hug to you back! 










Maya Angelou

Too many of us know the grief and pain and the impulse to fill that poodle shaped hole in our hearts.


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## patricia. b (11 mo ago)

twyla said:


> Virtual hugs for you in the difficult time.
> I know you desperate for a new companion, and frustrated and scared that getting another poodle will end in disaster and are overwhelmed by what you need to know to find the right pup and you doubt yourself and doubt every breeder.
> Take a deep breath and make a list, Rose n Poos is quite knowledgeable.
> Remember we all make mistakes, just have to learn from them and know there is a poodle out there for you it just may take some waiting on your part, and a healthy happy well bred poodle is worth waiting for.
> I lost my best buddy last year after years of so many medical issues, Beatrice was only 7 1/2 years old bought from a byb three days after the tragic loss of my first poodle Baby 8yrs who had to be euthanized after a freak fall left her paralyzed from the neck down.


Oh, I am So sorry about your losses. I know how painful it is to see your much loved friend suffer for a long time..my chihuahua had a bad heart condition for years and years, & both boys had painful dental issues..with the help. and encouragement of people here on PF, I hope to get a strong healthy companion in due time..you expressed my state of mind perfectly..thank you for that, and for your support..it means a lot, as I'm sure you know...


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## patricia. b (11 mo ago)

Rose n Poos said:


> First quickly with more later...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it's just not fair, is it? So much pain....


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I’m so sorry, what a devastating loss. (((hugs)))

A new puppy will never replace the old but it will help heal the huge hole in your heart. Searching for a quality bred puppy and the waiting period will give you time to fully grieve. Knowing a puppy will be in your future will give you peace.


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