# To breed him or not to breed him?



## Malorymoo (May 1, 2011)

I'm really on the fence here guys and I need some help. 

Bravo is a really good looking boy with a great pedigree. He's also got a phenominal temperment and I have known the dogs in his family for years and trained them. 

I plan to get his health checks, elbows, hips, eyes, all that jazz if I do breed him. My main reason for wanting to breed him is because he's going to be a service dog and I would love to breed to perfect poodles for service work.

I'm in no way green on breeding. My family is a well-known english bulldog family and have been doing it for 30 years, so I know all the ins and outs. I know poodles are nowhere near english bulls as far as breeding, but yea. 

My concerns for breeding him are;

Potential to learn to mark things, NOT good for a service dog.

And also concern for him to become male-aggressive.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

is his being a service dog really the only reason to breed him? 
My concerns would be more along the lines of what kind of pups would he produce...high drive dogs? Dogs that may need a VERY specific kind of home?

I think alot of consideration has to be put into wanting to breed, and if the only thing he has going for him is the service dog thing...I don't think that warrants breeding (not that he doesn't have other things going for him, you just didn't mention them =\ )

How is he structurally? What type of health problems are laying in his pedigree? Have you had him out in any other field of work? (i.e. performance events, or conformation?)

I think there are a ton of health problems plaguing this breed and I feel that dogs being bred should be being bred with a sole purpose of bettering the breed and eliminating these health issues


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## Malorymoo (May 1, 2011)

It is the main reason I would breed him, but not the only reason.

I helped train his parents and many of his siblings, and all of them in general had pretty much the same thing going for them temperment wise (mellow, really level-headed GREAT dogs!) The breeder of him is phenominal.

All of his parents are OFA certified and healthy as ever. No genetic health issues.

We are really trying to look at every angle, he's nowhere near old enough right now so we want to have it all figured out by the time he's 18 months old. Which is when we would neuter him if we decided to do so.

Structurally he's a really beautiful boy, definately got the looks going for him. Nicely put together, good picture of soundness and breed standard.

We haven't put him out for any sports yet, I want to do agility or freestyle with him. Right now he's only 5 months old so we really haven't done much. Conformation has never been my cup of tea. ESPECIALLY when I think of the maintenence of a show coat! I have also been looking into rally obedience with him. Training wise he's just starting public access work, meaning he's just starting to go to "no-dogs allowed" places, and he's doing amazing. He's working to his CGC right now and then we will do his service dog Public Access Test, but it takes about two years to train a service dog to ideal standards.

If he wasn't a picture of health I wouldn't even consider breeding him. :amen:


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I am not a breeder but I have learned a great deal on this forum. 1. Every line of Poodle does have Genetic issues- it is just how far back, how to avoid the health issues & who is related to who. 2. Every dog has it's faults but you didn't mention any which is odd. We all love our dogs but one needs to know what our dogs faults are so if one was to breed one can look at their line & say so & so throws really good ???? whatever you want to improve on. So, you should take a good look at your dog & point out the faults & how to correct them if one was to breed. 3. Show UKC- United Kennel Club you DO NOT have to have a huge coat. Plenty of easy maintenance coats there & in all honesty plenty of them could have been groomed better for their show ring. So, you really should show in at least the UKC just to get opinions as to what the good points are & what the bad points are. 4. Your dog is still just a pup so who knows what the final verdict will be structure wise. 

It is great to look at your dog now & think about breeding. I would on this forum present the sire & dam & there are fantastic people here who can find out what lurks in your lines. Also post stacked profile pictures to get people's opinions.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

I volunteer with a service dog training school, and I can tell you a little about what we do. Puppies are put into "raiser" homes until the age of 12-16 months. A select few are kept on "breeder hold" until their in-for-training date and the rest are spayed or neutered. Of the few kept intact, they are public access trained and everything just like a dog that is going into service work. At their IFT, they are evaluated on many different levels: health, temperament, social soundness, you get the drift. If they are determined to have what it takes to be a breeder, they are then placed in breeder caretaker homes where they life normal lives, except for occasional breedings. I have no idea how it would work out having a breeding male working as a service dog, as none of our breeders do. They have been through the training to make sure they are suitable for it, but don't actively work as service dogs. This isn't exactly a reasonable course of action for you. 

I have heard of people keeping male service dogs intact with no issues, but not actively breeding them, so I can't really offer any insight there. Good luck on your endeavors!


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

If he wasn't a picture of health I wouldn't even consider breeding him. :amen:[/QUOTE]

I've never had a pup who wasn't the picture of health.. at that age. I have a most wonderful bitch (who everyone in poodledom has heard me talk about on many occasions!). Her structure is sound, but not correct. She has the best temperament in the world, strong eager work ethic, high drive. According to her breeder, no health issues in the lines. PHR didn't exist back then.. and even now very few people are utilizing it, so only a small portion of health issues are being registered. I did all of her health testing. I bred her to the very best stud I could find. Incredible structure, personality, full health testing. A couple of years later... well heck.. you can read the story here:

VicsStory

A breeder's dream turned ugly.

Vic is still alive and at the moment doing really well. Most of the time, she's good, sometimes things get ugly and I think it's the end for her.. and she always fools me and rallies. Vic is now... 12 years old! Two of her offspring are already gone, one to AIHA, the other to cancer.

None of her pups were ever bred and Vic was spayed, so that was the end of that... but the heartbreak will remain forever.

There are no lines of poodles which are free of health issues and breeding is like walking through a minefield, waiting to see what blows up.. where. There are a lot of "new" breeders, who are optomistic that they have healthy lines (because it is what they have been told). If you are planning on breeding, I would encourage you to learn everything you possibly can about breeding/health issues. To print out a 5 generation pedigree of your boy along with all of the littermates in each generation, then track down the owners of each of those littermates and contact them to inquire about health issues within the pedigree. I've seen pedigrees on PHR that look "clean", only to have made a 4 or 5 phone calls and quit.. numerous, nonreported health issues. I encouage people to register with PHR, but most don't want to deal with the sadness and emotional upset of remembering a health issue. Occasionally I encounter someone, who tells me that the breeder has "threatened" them and warned them that the can't tell anyone. Then there is bloat...sigh...
I can't believe the reasons people can come up with to justify not reporting bloat. "he ate a whole bag of dog food", "he was stressed", "it's not genetic", "all poodles are predisposed to it"... what's not said is "I make money off of selling my poodles and I don't want the rest of the world to know". Uhoh.. I need to stop right now!

I've often said that "breeders eat their young".. meaning that breeders try to stop.. for whatever reason.. other people from breeding. If you have a great dog, that you are confident can contribute to the overall well being of the breed, you SHOULD move ahead with that dog as far as breeding.. but do a lot of research... first. Possibly consider waiting until he is older, rather than younger to breed him.

Good luck!


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

i wanted to read Vics Story but the link doesn't work. is it here on PF ? i'm sorry for whatever you went through, i was just hoping to learn something.


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## Hautepoo (Apr 14, 2011)

I know of one Stud dog used as a Therapy dog. He has produced many great litters and can still be called apon to do his job quite well. His mother has done alot of training with him...... anyone who truely knows their dog will be able to tell if they will be able to keep him controlled at all times. If any doubt you simply DO NOT DO IT!


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## Tucker57 (Nov 20, 2010)

Yes, the link to Vic's Story didn't work for me, either.


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

*Vic's Story*

Sorry for the broken link to the Vic' story. My website was attacked recently and it was just simpler for me to take it down. Here is a new link:

VicsStory


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

QUOTE=Yaddaluvpoodles;177406]Sorry for the broken link to the Vic' story. My website was attacked recently and it was just simpler for me to take it down. Here is a new link:

VicsStory[/QUOTE]

thank you!


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