# Recalls in rescued dogs vs. breeder dogs



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

I have never had a problem with recalls in previous dogs, all of whom were rescued. They would come to me no matter what, every time. Maizie is good _most_ of the time now, but if she is engaged in something she's really enjoying, she's stubborn about coming to me and will either be slow or defiant. Is this a rescue vs. breeder dog issue, or a Spoo issue?


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I think it's poodle thing


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Misha only does what she is asked when it benefits her. I think it is a poodle thing but can be overcome.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

I think it's a personality thing, along with training and such. Some dogs are just more easily distracted or less handler-focused than others. Archie's gotten to a point where he keeps an eye on me and he'll come to me to check in periodically if he's offleash, but he still frequently blows me off if there's something more interesting in the environment. That's part of why we go to so many group training classes.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Wild guess, but I suspect it could be a confidence thing. A dog who has come from a responsible breeder and then had a reliable home after leaving the breeder has little or no reason to worry. Whereas a rescue dog may have had a loving home at one time but lost it traumatically, or at least lost the home suddenly. So doubt has entered this one's life, and perhaps s/he will be very accommodating. Could be the opposite, too, I guess.

Maybe think about someone who finished college and went into a secure job with no worries or concerns about money or continued employment. Vs. someone who had a great job s/he loved and then got laid off suddenly, or maybe not even suddenly but saw things coming. That changes a person's reality and likely one's outlook in the future as far as job security.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I think it is partly a poodle thing, partly an age thing and probably also a confidence thing. Javelin seems to have decided this week that come means come take a fly by and then go bash his head into the plastic chicken hex wire around the birds' run. Go figure. Whenever I see our dogs' recalls fading a bit we play recall games with each dog, one at a time, both in the yard and in the house. We will be spending some time on this endeavor tomorrow as a matter of fact.


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## Tthompson40 (Nov 1, 2015)

Lincoln is my second standard poodle - and they both were similar in recall. If interested or tired, much better at recall. If focused on fun or observing something - hard to break into the train of thought. They are definitely thinkers - and sometimes don't want to be bothered. lol!


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Thanks for your input, all. It sounds like it really is a multifactorial issue and not just a rescue vs. breeder dog like I was thinking.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

I was initially going to say rescue dogs were better at recall until I remembered my BC/ACD cross and the Hades he put me through for years. He is/was a rescue and a total nightmare. (But, thanks to him, I learned SO very much about training!)

I was pleasantly surprised this morning regarding recalls, though. I pulled into the driveway after work but instead of pulling into the carport, decided that it needed to be swept while the truck was out. While I was doing that, the gate was wide open. My DD opened the door and turned Bug loose to say Hi. He saw me, headed my way, than noticed the neighbor's chickens across the street and the wide open gate. He flew out and headed their way. I called out in my best imatation of a happy voice and he spun on a dime and flew back in. 

I was so happy, surprised and relieved. I could have cried. Neat part? DD saw what happened and ran back into the house for treats to bribe him. By the time she came back out, he was already smooching me. 

I accidentally did something right. 

I will make a habit to do more recall work with everyone, but it's nice to see it pay off.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Merlin is a problematic dog inside, very fearful, but outside he is a dream dog and follows me off leash like a pro and his recall is fantastic. Go figure !


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Terms like "defiant" are really anthropomorphic. Dogs probably don't have the cognitive ability to work all that out in their brains. And there's that moral thing that dogs just don't have. So while it looks to us as if the dog is "blowing us off" or being stubborn or defiant, it's more likely that the dog needs more training and prevention of getting to practice not coming when called. So, if you find your dog is flagging in some skill like the recall, she just needs more practice. You may need to keep her on a long line or just be sure and don't call her if she's interested in something else. You may need to beef up your motivator, practice more where it's easier for her...fewer distractions or environmental distractions.

This happens with Matisse more than Maurice. Maurice is really getting quite reliable. Matisse is too, most of the time. BUT he has his moments when I shouldn't have called him but took a chance. For instance, maybe he was sniffing something REEEEEELLY interesting and I called him. Woops, I got over confident. And he just learned that "come" means sniff that thing that's reeeeely interesting. (because when a cue is associated with what they're doing, (sniffing) it's meaning (come) starts to wither away a little bit. So we have to make that cue more meaningful again. Some people pick a new word. I don't usually. I just give new life and meaning to my cue that got a little tainted.

So then...moving right along, I have to go back a few steps and stop trying to call him when I'm not sure he'll come and instead wait until he's already coming to use my cue and then really reward him well and every time for a while before going back to a variable reinforcement schedule. There has to be a good pay off for the dog. It's a process and it won't happen over night and it won't stay super always...it's so normal for dogs to regress and then you need to give refresher courses. It's really about more training needed, more practice and prevention of being more motivated by something else. It's not about being stubborn or defiant. You just have to adjust and sometimes be more creative with certain dogs. Take a dog from the working group and you've got it made. There was hardly anything more important to my Dobe than working. But it also took practice and time....I find the Poodles to be a little more tricky to motivate at times...but not all the time.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

I find that Archie has a pretty good sense for when he really "needs" to recall and when he doesn't. For example, at the dog park a recall frequently means anything from "look over at Mom and keep playing" to "Go run over where Mom is and then immediately go back"...unless it looks like I'm about to leave the park. Then he's on me every time. His recall is also tons stronger when he knows I've got some kind of reward on me - I just have to reward it once and after that he's quite attentive. Without an immediate reward like a toy or a treat, or the threat of getting stranded without me, though, he seems to weigh his options a bit more.

Cleo, my non-poodle mystery mix, comes every time she's called even though she's only been here a few weeks - but that's because FOOD is her number one thing and I've given her FOOD for this before so it's always worth trying again. And she's less confident when out in the world and much more clingy as a result (the other day they went off-leash in a new area for the first time, and Archie instantly raced off to explore while Cleo stayed within about 5 feet of me the whole time). So between the two of them, I'd say the difference is mostly that Archie is more equally interested in a variety of things, which makes rewarding/incentivizing him trickier, and he's mostly fearless in an unfamiliar environment. He also knows me better, though, and I really do think he can read whether it matters that he comes back or not. That little dude's got a scary ability to read my body language.

So anyway, both rescues, different approaches to recall.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I think it is pure personality and nothing more. I also think age should be considered. I used to say that my rescue Stella did not have any of the "want to please" in her. She is all about me me me. But as she has gotten older things have changed. She is such a good girl now and does most of the time, everything that I ask of her.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I Think it is only personality, as having gotten puppies years ago from breeders and getting older dogs not trained at all and from horrid situation, they all have had good recall once trained


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Terms like "defiant" are really anthropomorphic. Dogs probably don't have the cognitive ability to work all that out in their brains. And there's that moral thing that dogs just don't have. So while it looks to us as if the dog is "blowing us off" or being stubborn or defiant, it's more likely that the dog needs more training and prevention of getting to practice not coming when called.


I always get in trouble when I use the word "defiant." I wasn't allowed to use that when working with a special needs child. He was "non-compliant." Am I allowed to use that term for Maizie?


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

zooeysmom said:


> I always get in trouble when I use the word "defiant." I wasn't allowed to use that when working with a special needs child. He was "non-compliant." Am I allowed to use that term for Maizie?


LOL! Yes, I think non-compliant is a good way to put it. It's a fact. The dog (or child) is not compliant. And that is not to say what's behind the non-compliance. Often in a child that is not special needs, they would be defiant because humans are by and large, of higher intelligence and understanding of human ways... morals and values. But dogs don't share our morals or value system so defiance isn't really applicable because it implies that the dog knows, understands, but is choosing to flip us the bird. That's not it at all though. They're *simply* more motivated by something else than what we want. They're _simply_ going to do what works for_ them._ Not what pleases us, as many people think. They don't live to please us except for what it ultimately does for them. (I know...that's really hard to take, isn't it) That's because they're amoral, they're innocently selfish and that's just the way they are. Ya know what I mean? :act-up:


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

Well I guess it could be a combination of all the things everyone has mentioned, but my personal experience is rescued come automatically and others have to be taught and reinforced. I say "other" instead of "breeder" because I think it's a dog that hasn't had to deal with hunger, rejection, survival and suffering. Abbey is pretty reliable on recall but we still have work (I think it's ongoing) to do, and my dogs before her (labs) were much the same although she is definitely better at a younger age. Then there was Gracie, our rescue, she was such a dear sweet little soul, Gracie would come immediately with no hesitation what so ever, even when chasing a deer or coyotes off the property. We always said, she doesn't want to loose us.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Caddy said:


> Well I guess it could be a combination of all the things everyone has mentioned, but my personal experience is rescued come automatically and others have to be taught and reinforced. I say "other" instead of "breeder" because I think it's a dog that hasn't had to deal with hunger, rejection, survival and suffering. Abbey is pretty reliable on recall but we still have work (I think it's ongoing) to do, and my dogs before her (labs) were much the same although she is definitely better at a younger age. Then there was Gracie, our rescue, she was such a dear sweet little soul, Gracie would come immediately with no hesitation what so ever, even when chasing a deer or coyotes off the property. We always said, she doesn't want to loose us.


I think you make a really good point. I have heard from many how grateful rescues seem to be...at least, many of them. They finally get a family, love, attention, security...food, things that they didn't have in good supply before... and they just don't take things for granted as much as these brats who were spoiled rotten from the get go. lol. Maybe that's why they tend to come along better. They don't want to risk missing out on something. I'm sure it's not a black and white thing. There are likely many reasons why some dogs are easier to recall than others and it's probably not a fluid thing.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Dechi said:


> Merlin is a problematic dog inside, very fearful, but outside he is a dream dog and follows me off leash like a pro and his recall is fantastic. Go figure !




That actually makes a lot of sense. Since Merlin is so fearful he trusts you outside and doesn't want to leave your side. I think he looks to you to protect him.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I worked very diligently on recall with Sunny when I first got him -- especially important after he slipped his collar with a dog walker and ran/bolted almost 3 miles early on when he came to live with me. A very knowledgeable retired trainer whom I had used with my last poodle, Jake, worked with me by phone. After 30 days of daily exercises, it was perfect!!! I do have to reinforce -- as he has gotten a little "cocky" now and does try to push the envelope!!!


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## TeamPoodle (Aug 10, 2015)

I would agree that it is a combination of many things. Riley *used* to have excellent recall (with me). However, lately he's discovered birds and how fun they are to chase, so we're back to on-leash 100% when outside and recall games inside. 

When we first got him he had the most beautiful heeling position when we took walks, and I still kick myself for not reinforcing it more. As he got more comfortable with our house, he's decided that being all the way up front and pulling on the leash is the best position for a walk. We realized he used to heel because he wanted to stay close and be protected if something scary was around. As he got comfortable with his environment, he wanted less coddling. Less coddling = desire for more freedom = not listening when mommy calls because OMG birds! He's no longer scared of being left behind or fearful of the world. Good thing training is a lifelong endeavor and not a 6-week course. We're in it for the long haul. 

He does require a lot of cuddles and petting and love. It is like he can't get enough. I do think that's one of his rescue traits.


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