# Cantope Poodles



## Jeremy

Anyone familiar with "Cantope"?
They seem to have some nice dogs, some from well known kennels, but I dunno....
Any known health problems ?


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## Harley_chik

Try using the search feature, there have been a few threads that mentioned them. From what I can see they have a lot of litters but I didn't see anything about breeding underage, untested or unhealthy dogs. I wouldn't go w/ a high volume breeder, but that's just me. This forum is full of great info and people are always willing to recommend breeders if you let us know what you are looking for: variety, color, purpose, etc.


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## Jeremy

Thank you for your reply Harvey. I had done a quick manual search and not found anything. Did a proper search now and found out more...

IMHO high volume isn't necessarily a bad thing, so long as the dogs are healthy, well raised and cared for and found proper homes. Biggest warning sign for me are the Partis - I know some people like them and all, but when you see someone who isn't breeding just Partis but also Solids, especially Reds, the first thing that comes into my mind is that they might very well be running a business for $ . Obviously its perfectly possible for someone to like both Partis, Reds and Browns but it can also be a sign that they are just bandwagoning on whatever is selling at the present time.

Off topic - I've been lurking for a while, finally signed up so I can start askign and sticking my oar in, Lol.


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## Trillium

Just fyi Cantope has another whole aspect of their business called Parti Tyme Poodles. You can verify this through their posted phone numbers on both websites.


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## frostfirestandards

I know *A* cantope poodle.he was bred by them, but is not owned by the. he is a red dog, and his owner/handler was the first poodle person that gave me the time of day when I started. 

He is a nice dog temperment wise, I do not know if this is common in their line, or if its just the way he was raised.


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## Jeremy

Oh right...so what does that actually mean? They run two separate kennels or...? (Not being sarcastic I really don't get it..)


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## Cdnjennga

Jeremy said:


> Biggest warning sign for me are the Partis - I know some people like them and all, but when you see someone who isn't breeding just Partis but also Solids, especially Reds, the first thing that comes into my mind is that they might very well be running a business for $ . Obviously its perfectly possible for someone to like both Partis, Reds and Browns but it can also be a sign that they are just bandwagoning on whatever is selling at the present time.


I think you've hit the nail on the head here. A breeder who sells all the "trendy colours" needs to be further investigated. It's a red flag for me.

Having said that, I know nothing about Cantope other than what I see on their website. They sell a lot of puppies per year.


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## Jeremy

frostfirestandards said:


> I know *A* cantope poodle.he was bred by them, but is not owned by the. he is a red dog, and his owner/handler was the first poodle person that gave me the time of day when I started.
> 
> He is a nice dog temperment wise, I do not know if this is common in their line, or if its just the way he was raised.


Interesting. They have some nice dogs from top lines (Joiner's Quality :shocked and a good number of champions, the only "bad" I can see is the number of litters per year...so yeah, I dunno, although I do think its slightly odd how scarce information is on them on the net. 



Cdnjennga said:


> I think you've hit the nail on the head here. A breeder who sells all the "trendy colours" needs to be further investigated. It's a red flag for me.
> 
> Having said that, I know nothing about Cantope other than what I see on their website. They sell a lot of puppies per year.


Same - its a red flag for me too, although ofc cannot of itself be taken as proof of any wrongdoing.


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## moxky

*I am familiar with Cantope*

On my first visit to Cantope, I went with a friend and she asked Diane: "Why are your dogs so much more expensive than others?" And she replied (I am paraphrasing) that it was their business, and that they are not hobby breeders.

They are indeed a business, and a well run one at that. It's hard work, and I admire their dedication.

I have read some negative comments on this bb about Cantope and the large number of litters they have in a year... and quite frankly, I was astounded. What's wrong with breeding as a business? Did you all get your poodles for free? They devote their full attention to their craft. And btw, these litters are not from the same two poodles! Though I will admit: Max* is a stud!! (*Moxie's father.)

Cantope offers support 365 days a year, "preferably between 8am and 8pm." When I was looking, the closest breeder to Toronto that I was aware of was in Hamilton, and I had to make a financial commitment before I could even visit their home/business. THAT should be a warning signal... not that "trendy colours" are being bred!! 

I went to Cantope three times before I brought my puppy home, and they were gracious and generous with their time on every occasion. I met several poodles, from puppy to adult, and met friendly local teens who would help with the business and clearly loved the animals. Since adopting Moxie (my first dog), I have called or emailed for advice on many occasions, and I have always been promptly provided with solid advice in response to my query. That is amazing to me because I know that I am not their only client, they must have hundreds... yet though Diane's personal service, I have always felt that Moxie & I are very important.

Thanks to Diane's good judgement, two Toronto families who brought home pups from the same litter and I have been in communication since the get go. We met to socialize our pups before they could safely socialize with park dogs, and several times after that. We have compared notes and shared tips throughout the entire process of raising our pups. This connection has been invaluable to me as a first time dog owner.

I have met at least ten other Cantope poodles around town... including Moxie's great great grandmother!! I have never heard one complaint from any owner about Cantope; in fact I've only heard praises. At Cherry Beach I was told a story by a woman about how her Cantope poodle developed an eye issue, and when she called Cantope to let them know, to her surprise they covered the bills for it. That's been the only health issue that I've heard of, and it's a question I always ask when I meet Cantope dog owners.

Moxie is a year and a half now. She's a great dog. She's smart, curious, happy, humourous, playful and friendly with dogs and people... including children. She detects when someone wants to give her affection, and responds to them with love and wags. She makes so many people happy on our everyday excursions. People smile and point all the time. People comment "What a beautiful dog!" on an everyday basis. My vet has said (on several occasions) that he wished all his patients were as cooperative.

So people, please don't be so quick to slag Cantope. They breed very beautiful and sweet animals, and are pros at doing it. Make an appointment and go see for yourselves. I would love to have a business that was responsible for making so many people smile. Diane and Peter and Mary: thank you, and keep up the excellent work.


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## Vibrant

Jeremy said:


> Anyone familiar with "Cantope"?
> They seem to have some nice dogs, some from well known kennels, but I dunno....
> Any known health problems ?


My avatar, Cheers, is a Cantope puppy.
The partis are one of their lines, which they are trying to improve by careful breeding. I believe that all their partis are registered under the Cantope prefix.
Ask Diane why they have the Parti Tyme name as well....there is a good reason for it...no deep, dark secrets or anything like that.
Health problems...I wouldn't believe a breeder who tried to tell you that they didn't have any health problems in the background of their lines. Ask Diane...she's honest. Most important is how a breeder deals with health problems, not whether they encounter them.
If volume breeding scares you, stay away, but if you can be open to the fact that high volume doesn't mean poor breeding practices or unhealthy, poorly cared for puppies and parents, take a look.
I'm sure happy with my Cantope girl.


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## bigredpoodle

I have spoken with Diane on many occasion She was gracious Very knowledgable and very agreeable to all my questions. WE are very interested in each others breeding programs I would not hesitate to purchase from her... She tests she screens she shows and she is VERY professional.. If it is a business than she is doing business the right way !


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## whitepoodles

Vibrant/Vivienne:

I saw your girl advertised in PV's current issue. (looked at the digital )

I dont believe we ever met, but assumed it was you alongside your girl in the ad ??

Very nice ad, and congratulations on all your accomplishments with her 

*Way to go* *!!*


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## Vibrant

whitepoodles said:


> Vibrant/Vivienne:
> 
> I saw your girl advertised in PV's current issue. (looked at the digital )
> 
> I dont believe we ever met, but assumed it was you alongside your girl in the ad ??
> 
> Very nice ad, and congratulations on all your accomplishments with her
> 
> *Way to go* *!!*


Thanks, Ora! Yes, that's me with Miss Cheers. I figured I would probably never again be invited to put an ad in PV's PCA Winner's issue, so took them up on it while the going was good!
I just noticed that this thread is old....from March this year. I hope Jeremy found a breeder that he's happy with!!


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## moxky

Trillium said:


> Just fyi Cantope has another whole aspect of their business called Parti Tyme Poodles. You can verify this through their posted phone numbers on both websites.


Trillium: What's the url? I googled "Parti Tyme Poodles" and found nothing. That url isn't even registered under .com or .ca.

And what's your point? I think Jeremy asked this question too, but I did not see a response.


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## whitepoodles

Vibrant said:


> Thanks, Ora! Yes, that's me with Miss Cheers. I figured I would probably never again be invited to put an ad in PV's PCA Winner's issue, so took them up on it while the going was good!
> I just noticed that this thread is old....from March this year. I hope Jeremy found a breeder that he's happy with!!


Vivienne:

I see that Moxky brought the thread up again speaking about her experience with Cantope.. So I think this is how the thread revived itself.


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## Locket

moxky said:


> They are indeed a business, and a well run one at that. It's hard work, and I admire their dedication.
> 
> I have read some negative comments on this bb about Cantope and the large number of litters they have in a year... and quite frankly, I was astounded. *What's wrong with breeding as a business? *Did you all get your poodles for free?


A lot can go wrong when the well-being of the animals comes second to making profit. I'm not saying this is the case at Cantope, but that is what's wrong with breeding as a business. People should breed for ONE purpose, and that is to better the breed. 

Breeders are responsible for the future of living creatures. Is it really possible to ensure a good quality of life when you're producing hundreds of pups a year?? 



> Cantope offers support 365 days a year, "preferably between 8am and 8pm." When I was looking, the closest breeder to Toronto that I was aware of was in Hamilton, and *I had to make a financial commitment before I could even visit their home/business.* THAT should be a warning signal... not that "trendy colours" are being bred!!


You mean having to make a commitment to a pup before you even get to meet the parents, see the home, meet the breeder in person, etc. is a good thing?????



Vibrant said:


> If volume breeding scares you, stay away, but if you can be open to the fact that high volume doesn't mean poor breeding practices or unhealthy, poorly cared for puppies and parents, take a look.


But what kind of quality life can a poodle be getting when living in a kennel? Sure, they're fed and watered and exercised, but poodles NEED to be a part of the family. They thrive as a REAL part of the family. 

Cantope is breeding more litters when they still have pups from January, March, April, and May litters...do you not consider that poor breeding practice?




With so many dogs already in need of homes, contributing to pet over population *FOR MONEY* disgusts me.


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## Keithsomething

I've spoken to Diane via email and she seems very courteous and willing to answer most of my questions, and I think they do most health testing...
I just can't wrap my mind around the high volume of litters they have a year v.v;

How can you properly socialize all those puppies?

But I also have a problem with kennels, thankfully I'm in the position and willing to wait for a hobby breeder who only breeds a few litters a year


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## moxky

Locket said:


> A lot can go wrong when the well-being of the animals comes second to making profit. I'm not saying this is the case at Cantope, but that is what's wrong with breeding as a business. People should breed for ONE purpose, and that is to better the breed.
> 
> Breeders are responsible for the future of living creatures. Is it really possible to ensure a good quality of life when you're producing hundreds of pups a year??


Well, all I know is that my poodle and the others I've met are very happy, healthy and beautiful. I don't really know what "better the breed" can possibly mean, since I'm not a breeder, but I'm pretty sure the home/hobby breeders are making a profit too.



Locket said:


> You mean having to make a commitment to a pup before you even get to meet the parents, see the home, meet the breeder in person, etc. is a good thing?????


No Locket, I was stating the opposite. The home/hobby breeder in Hamilton would require a deposit before allowing me to visit the premises, not Cantope. Cantope fulfilled all "The Golden Rules" of finding a reputable breeder as outlined by the CKC, wheres the Hamilton breeder did not. I was also stating that Cantope offers excellent support. I doubt a hobby breeder can match the service they provide. Thanks for pointing that out though, I'll change the wording in my post from "had to" to "would have had to."



Locket said:


> Cantope is breeding more litters when they still have pups from January, March, April, and May litters...do you not consider that poor breeding practice?


I don't because a lot of folks want older dogs. They will find homes for them sooner or later. In the meantime they are well cared for in a place bustling with activity. ...and please... many dogs are left alone for many hours each day while families go to work and school, so I think it's best not judge quality of life issues.



Locket said:


> With so many dogs already in need of homes, contributing to pet over population FOR MONEY disgusts me.


Right, well in that case, Locket, people should not breed dogs at all.


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## whitepoodles

moxky said:


> No Locket, I was stating the opposite. The home/hobby breeder in Hamilton would require a deposit before allowing me to visit the premises, not Cantope. Cantope fulfilled all "The Golden Rules" of finding a reputable breeder as outlined by the CKC, wheres the Hamilton breeder did not. I was also stating that Cantope offers excellent support. I doubt a hobby breeder can match the service they provide.
> 
> MOXKY:
> 
> I do NOT know who you are or where you reside and I do NOT care.
> 
> I will NEVER put Cantope down for what they breed or how they breed.
> 
> I happen to know Cantope and have NOTHING against them or their breeding practices, as many here state, they test, they show and they love their dogs, also they are members of our PCC National Breed Club for many years.
> 
> MY beef is NOT with Cantope it is WITH YOU !!!!
> 
> HOW DARE YOU and I mean HOW DARE YOU state that , verbatim:
> 
> " I was also stating that Cantope offers excellent suppport. *I DOUBT A* *HOBBY BREEDER CAN MATCH THE SERVICE THEY PROVIDE"... *close quote.
> 
> I consider myself now for the past 16 years a HOBBY BREEDER breeding only ONE litter annually, yet I can assure you that I DO OFFER EXCELLENT service to my clients on all levels, as do many of my friends in the breed who like me operate small scale but QUALITY breeding program.
> 
> Shame on you for referring to a hobby breeder who does not operate a large scale breeding facility as not offering the services that Cantope does.
> 
> 
> VERY disappointing and insulting statement !!! Nuff said .


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## moxky

whitepoodles said:


> MY beef is NOT with Cantope it is WITH YOU !!!!
> 
> HOW DARE YOU and I mean HOW DARE YOU state that , verbatim:
> 
> " I was also stating that Cantope offers excellent suppport. *I DOUBT A* *HOBBY BREEDER CAN MATCH THE SERVICE THEY PROVIDE"... *
> 
> .......
> VERY disappointing and insulting statement !!! Nuff said .


Sorry to offend you Whitpoodles, it was not my intention.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and my opinion was based on my experience with a breeder who claimed to be too busy with jobs and family to allow visitors. It was clearly written as an opinion, not as a statement. Sheesh, no need to yell.


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## whitepoodles

moxky said:


> Sorry to offend you Whitpoodles, it was not my intention.
> 
> Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and my opinion was based on my experience with a breeder who claimed to be too busy with jobs and family to allow visitors. It was clearly written as an opinion, not as a statement. Sheesh, no need to yell.



moxky:

YOUR opinion was strictly based on your experience with ONE breeder NOT even 2, yet you bunched together and made a generalized insulting statement about all Hobby breeders who do not operate large breeding facilities doubting THEY give the same service as Cantope does to their clients.

Have you ever been to my home or the homes of my breeder friends who consider ourselves small hobby breeders , producing only 1-2 quality litters per year, yet manage to win Best In Show ribbons with their dogs, and finish championship titles on ALL dogs they breed?? 

Have you been in contact with clients who purchase puppies from these small quality breeders who raise their puppies in a nursery near their bedroom and not in a kennel facility, to find out about their modus operandi , ethics and way of treating their clients to include thier state-of-the art after sale service??? 

If you can come up with such a negative, insulent and erroneous statement about ALL hobby breeders and excuse yourself later by stating that it was ONLY an opinion to which you are entitled , I would highly suggest that these type of opinions should not be published in a public forum as they are not only insulting but outright FALSE.

Lastly, when you are armored with enough knowledge from personal experience about breeders like myself and others who consider ourselves small time hobby breeders which you obviously think SO little of, who operate on a small but HUGE QUALITY scale than you can make such a statement.

Pls. No need to respond... You have obviously made your point already....:rolffleyes:


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## jak

High volume to me turns me off completely from a breeder....
Something about *commercializing* dogs, isn't right


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## Locket

jak said:


> High volume to me turns me off completely from a breeder....
> Something about *commercializing* dogs, isn't right


Absolutely!!! Mass producing animals is not right!!


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## whitepoodles

I would like to re-iterate to ALL on this forum that I have NEVER nor EVER will post any negative statements on this forum about Cantope , unless I am personally armored with facts and not hear-say.

My response to MOXKY has *NOTHING* whatsoever to do with Cantope, it strictly has to do with Moxky's UNCALLED for and insulent statement about breeders like myself who operate a quality small scale hobby breeding program, but who do everything by the book , offer state -of -the -art support and continuous service to their clients for the duration of the dog's natural life, as well as always being available to answer all questions big and small, and who never turn their back on a client if things go wrong. 

It is always wonderful to have great news from our clients when everything goes well, but the true test of a conscientious and devoted breeder is when things do not go right and a client is faced with a sad tale of loss, this is when a breeder's true ethics are tested... not when everything is smooth and non problematic.

Consumers have a choice to either choose a large scale breeder or a small scale one. It will depend on their personal experience with whatever breeder they choose to go with, BUT to make such a negative statement about ALL SMALL SCALE BUT QUALITY HOBBY BREEDERS based on merely one single conversation with ONE is uncalled for and false.

BTW, Moxky, I have NEVER heard of any breeder who requires a deposit prior to having the client visit the breeder's premisses and having a conversation and an interview by the breeder.

When I get an inquiry for a puppy, I require letters of reference from others about the prospective client in such case they live in an area which makes it impossible for them to visit my home or be personally interviewed by me as to suitability for getting one of my puppies, unless I know them by reputation or had them referred to me by another client whom I trust.

As to my clients who are local, I definitely require them to come to my house and visit my premisses, meet me and my dogs.

Choosing a breeder is a TWO way street always, the prospective client has as much a right to interview the breeder as the breeder the client.. It always works both ways.

The reason why I would require the client to come to my house unless they are in an area so remote that they cant possibly visit is because I want them to see where their puppy would be raised and how. It is important for a client to feel 100% with a breeder as much as it is the breeder's right to feel the same with the prospective client.

Any breeder, small or large who, tells a prospective client (Moxky) that they have to forward a $ deposit prior to visiting the breeder's premisses is shady and not to be dealt with.

In my 16 years of breeding and selling puppies, I have never heard of a quality and respected small scale hobby breeder requesting the client to forward a reservation deposit prior to letting the client visit their home. 

I know two breeders in Hamilton and I doubt they will ever require this from a prospective client.

I have NO idea who you spoke to in Hamilton Moxky, but the breeders I know there will never do such a thing.. 

I will never address this issue further. I have said all I have to say on this subject.


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## lisa0664

Cdnjennga said:


> I think you've hit the nail on the head here. A breeder who sells all the "trendy colours" needs to be further investigated. It's a red flag for me.
> 
> Having said that, I know nothing about Cantope other than what I see on their website. They sell a lot of puppies per year.


well i can tell you they are amazing they treAt each puppy like it’s their own and after all they are until you take them home
i picked up our puppy on Saturday ! this 8 week old pup is so well socialized great temperament and so so smart at 8 weeks she was playing fetch with me and her toy after 2 days 
today is day 3 and she actually went to front door and hit the bells by the door to go out and do her business 
Dianne and Peter work with you , they reply to emails within 24 he’s or less and are very responsive and helpful 
they open their home to you without a deposit they give you as much information and just like you choose your breeder they have the right to refuse you ! they are amazing they treat everyone especially those dogs and pups very well !


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## cowpony

lisa0664 said:


> well i can tell you they are amazing they treAt each puppy like it’s their own and after all they are until you take them home
> i picked up our puppy on Saturday ! this 8 week old pup is so well socialized great temperament and so so smart at 8 weeks she was playing fetch with me and her toy after 2 days
> today is day 3 and she actually went to front door and hit the bells by the door to go out and do her business
> Dianne and Peter work with you , they reply to emails within 24 he’s or less and are very responsive and helpful
> they open their home to you without a deposit they give you as much information and just like you choose your breeder they have the right to refuse you ! they are amazing they treat everyone especially those dogs and pups very well !


I believe you have accidentally resurrected a 10 year dormant thread. Cantope, like many breeders, seems to inspire both passionate devotion and some criticism. As with any relationship, do your research and assume that nobody can be a perfect fit for everyone.


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## bigredpoodle

cowpony said:


> I believe you have accidentally resurrected a 10 year dormant thread. Cantope, like many breeders, seems to inspire both passionate devotion and some criticism. As with any relationship, do your research and assume that nobody can be a perfect fit for everyone.


Well said


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