# Protective?



## Poodlepup1 (Feb 11, 2012)

I think that they COULD be good personal protection. It all depends on the individual dog... has your spoo shown signs of possessiveness towards you??


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## ladybird (Jul 9, 2011)

No, not at all. I just wanted to know if anybody had any stories to share and what they think about it


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Poodles inherently do not have "grip" which is necessary for aggressive engagement. Grip can be trained, but character cannot. My mpoo puppy has been courage tested and I intend to train him in PPD or FR, just for fun. Dogs love the game! Trying to teach your dog to be protective when it doesn't have character for it results in a very stressed, miserable, sometimes dangerous dogs. (Please don't try to turn your dog into this without good professional help.)

But poodles tend to be alert and notice small changes, and can be good alert dogs.

My breeder's house was broken into by a disoriented drunk. The protection trained malinois did not react. The minature poodles drove him off with their noise and activity. 

Even without aggression or training, any barking dogs are excellent deterrent.


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## ladybird (Jul 9, 2011)

tortoise said:


> My mpoo puppy has been courage tested and I intend to train him in PPD or FR, just for fun. Dogs love the game! Trying to teach your dog to be protective when it doesn't have character for it results in a very stressed, miserable, sometimes dangerous dogs. (Please don't try to turn your dog into this without good professional help.)


What's PPD and FR? And yes of course, I wouldn't try teaching him any protection work without a professional! How did your mpoo get "courage tested"?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I know my grandmother's two minis once cornered the baker in her kitchen, when he came in to leave the bread on the table when she was not there. It was nearly two hours before she came home ... And Poppy took one look at my neice togged up in a sleeping bag suit, complete with hood, one Christmas, and decided that there was absolutely no way the monster was going to be allowed to come upstairs.

I think protection work can be very much a two edged sword, though - I have a friend who has in the past chosen the dog that she feels can "protect" her, and ended up with a reactive, potentially dangerous dog that is difficult to exercise and unreliable with visitors. Very definitely something to be undertaken only with dogs of rock solid temperament, and with a really knowledgeable and experienced mentor.


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## Ladywolfe (Jan 11, 2012)

This may be of interest:


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## MrsKaia (Dec 3, 2011)

No stories here. I think Cal would suck as a protection dog  He is quite the insecure guy. He might feel courageous enough to attack if I would do too, but I guess that would defy the purpose. He is a great watchdog though. With his big bark, almost 27 inches, and straight cut coat, people are often confused about what kind of dog he is, and they keep their distance.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

My two standards now just LOVE people, but they do growl at some passersby when we're in the car, so that's about the perfect level of protectiveness for me. Just being alert. But I must say after work, all my co-workers come rushing to the car to pop their hands in the window and pet the dogs and the dogs LOVE that!


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

It should be noticed that Schutzhund is NOT aggression! Police dogs and Schutzhund dogs are not aggressive, their work is pure PLAY. These dogs must be stable and have the correct temperament to even be considered for their jobs.

Protection is different, I think it can get way out of line if the dog is possessive, but controlled protection when the dog can be called back from a mistake is what is safe. Having your dog go psycho on someone for touching your arm while talking is NOT good, but if your dog is in tune with your emotions and knows when you're in danger would be a better reaction.

I don't know what my dogs would do if I got mugged. Vegas only barks when I'm home and people come to the door, he doesn't bark when I come home to my boyfriend being alone, so I think in a way he's more protective of me.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Best video yet (;


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## Brittany May (Feb 9, 2012)

Mum pushed me the other night to see what Lacey's reaction was, and each time without fail Lacey pushed herself between us and took mums wrist in her mouth gently but firmly.

However when I did the same thing to Mum, every time without fail Lacey jumped up on Mums bed (a place she is not allowed to go) and lay down to go to sleep. It was hilarious, lol.


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## MrsKaia (Dec 3, 2011)

That YT-movie is hilarious


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

ladybird said:


> What's PPD and FR? And yes of course, I wouldn't try teaching him any protection work without a professional! How did your mpoo get "courage tested"?


PPD - personal protection dog (not through a club like PSA), FR is French Ring. My pup's breeder is also a (highly respected) trainer, they do rings sports, PSA and Iron Dog with their mals and presa's. They had a litter of presa's at the same time as the mpoo's. They said the mpoo's did better, lol.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Fluffyspoos said:


> It should be noticed that Schutzhund is NOT aggression! Police dogs and Schutzhund dogs are not aggressive, their work is pure PLAY. These dogs must be stable and have the correct temperament to even be considered for their jobs.


Schutzhund *can* be done purely in play (prey drive), but it's not desired, and a good judge will see it immediately. 

Police K9's, ringsports, and in personal protection, the dog is taught how to fight. The dog is taught to work through being hit with a stick, noisemakers, being hit, kicked, triped, flipped, anything that a dog might experince in real life scenarios. The object is not to hurt the dog but to teach it confidence. There are trainers, the most notable Bernard Flinks, that go over-the-top into the range of abusive. Water is often used as a distraction, but this guy was showing how tough his dog was by pouring water down the dog's nose while it was on a bite. Ummm... no. That goes beyond preparing a dog for real-life scenarios and reaches will into the abusive and show-off. Do you see the contrast? Preparation and confidence versus abuse and misuse.




Fluffyspoos said:


> Protection is different, I think it can get way out of line if the dog is possessive, but controlled protection when the dog can be called back from a mistake is what is safe. Having your dog go psycho on someone for touching your arm while talking is NOT good, but if your dog is in tune with your emotions and knows when you're in danger would be a better reaction.


I think bite trained dogs are safer to be around. They act on command. They respond to recalls and call offs. They learn to bite SAFELY. They release on command. I know several of the people in these videos, used to train with them before my disabilities got too bad. There's no "going psycho". It's grip and hold.








Fluffyspoos said:


> I don't know what my dogs would do if I got mugged. Vegas only barks when I'm home and people come to the door, he doesn't bark when I come home to my boyfriend being alone, so I think in a way he's more protective of me.


The golden retriever would put on a big bluff. IF he bite, he would run off as soon as there was more pressure than he could handle. (and he can't handle much!) He would run off aways, then circle back.

My puppy would have a big bark and big dancing bouncing, stupidly confident thing going on until he got punted. Then he'd cry for a while and come back and sorta stand there.

They are both great alert dogs. No one - no even familiar neighbors or family - can come near our yard without a big alarm barking. I am very blessed that with this and living in a good neighborhood, my son can play outside with less than 100% supervision.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Best video yet (;
> 
> Claudia Romard & Mr. Murphy - YouTube


I love this vidoe so much! Unfortunately, I didn't see it until Claudia announced his death online. I know people who met Mr. Murphy. Heck of a dog. Wish I could have watched him in person!


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I've always been curious this myself. I don't know WHAT Leroy would do. He does bark if he hears a funny noise or sees funny people. I think he's too friendly and sensitive for protection. He would probably bark his head off and run away while I got mugged. His bite is also very soft. He lost tug-of-war to a 3 month old pit bull today!


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

What I mean with 'going psycho' is a groomer I work with has an akita, who is overly protective, no one can even touch the dog when she's around, and if someone approached her, a strange man, and touched or alarm her she claims "Oh he would just kill him."

Not a stable dog, imo.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Fluffyspoos said:


> What I mean with 'going psycho' is a groomer I work with has an akita, who is overly protective, no one can even touch the dog when she's around, and if someone approached her, a strange man, and touched or alarm her she claims "Oh he would just kill him."
> 
> Not a stable dog, imo.


Yeah, unstable is bad. Really, really bad. 

I had a really nice puppy that was bite-trained for fun but was never going to be able to take much pressure so I moved on to training other things she would enjoy more. When she matured she started getting a little strange. And then unstable. I had to have my baby euthanized, it was the only safe and responsible thing to do. She wagged her tail until the moment she died. She was my heart dog, and now I cry every time a pet is euthanized at the clinic. (Euthanasia never bothered me before that).

So it makes me really angry when people let their dogs be dangerous or don't do the right thing. Controlled protection is super awesome, huge respect for the people and dogs. But the unstable dogs are dangerous. They often have a miserable stressed out life. That's not right.


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## Liafast (Apr 9, 2011)

Spoo's being bird dogs should have a soft mouth. My spoo Pumpkin would protect me if you could convince her that i was in danger.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

My sister out of the blue will "hit" me and act like she's attacking me. She's not very convincing cause it annoys me and she ends up giggling. Leroy thinks she's playing and starts mouthing my sister! He's such a sweet boy, I can't see him hurting a fly... (actually, he's killed several flies. He bites them and spits them out, yuck)


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## ladybird (Jul 9, 2011)

do you think they would protect you in real danger though? I've heard stories of people getting attacked by wild animals and their dog comes to the rescue, that sort of thing. (or muggers) Takes bravery though, those dogs put their own lives in danger to protect their master!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

In my case, with toy dogs, I think the simple answer to that is No! I taught them early on that I am here to protect them, so they do not need to worry - now, at the first sign of anything scary, they are either behind me, or safely between my feet! They would probably bark though, especially if it seemed I was not doing particularly well at the protection thing.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

fjm said:


> In my case, with toy dogs, I think the simple answer to that is No! I taught them early on that I am here to protect them, so they do not need to worry - now, at the first sign of anything scary, they are either behind me, or safely between my feet! They would probably bark though, especially if it seemed I was not doing particularly well at the protection thing.


I think this is a very good safe way to handle things - for any size dog. I've had this attitude before and my dogs were calm, confident, never worried about distractions.

One thing I taught about dealing with loose dogs was to put your dog in a sit-stay, step in front of your dog or leave your dogs before dealing with the stray dog.

It's a very clear "I'm in charge, I will protect you". I prefer this a million times over trying to pressure an unfit dog to be protective.


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

the first time I ever heard Bonzai growl was when she was 8 months or so. the only reason I even got out of bed to investigate was because she had never growled before, so I knew it must be serious. sure enough, there was a man in a black hooded sweatshirt trying to break into my front door. I ran to my son's room and watched him through the window, then I started yelling at him through the window as if he were a bad dog... saying "no! no! go home!" and he did! bonzai was growl-barking from her crate the whole time. 

so she didn't attack anyone but she certainly told me when there was someone trying to break in!


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