# Dehydrated Sardines for Toy Puppy?



## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

Oops, sorry, I forgot the puppy tax!😊


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## I_love_dogs (May 30, 2021)

Most of the studies I have seen show that freeze dried food doesn't contain a high amount of bacteria. It is the raw frozen meat that is contaminated with higher than acceptable levels of bacteria.


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## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

I_love_dogs said:


> Most of the studies I have seen show that freeze dried food doesn't contain a high amount of bacteria. It is the raw frozen meat that is contaminated with higher than acceptable levels of bacteria.


That makes sense. Thank you so much.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I don’t think you’ll get a definitive answer here either. Sorry.  But I do like single-ingredient treats.

Generally speaking, I think the best puppy training treats are kernel-sized and soft. The kind that can be fed on the go. We used chicken breast, bits of turkey hotdog, reduced fat string cheese, etc.


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## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I don’t think you’ll get a definitive answer here either. Sorry.  But I do like single-ingredient treats.
> 
> Generally speaking, I think the best puppy training treats are kernel-sized and soft. The kind that can be fed on the go. We used chicken breast, bits of turkey hotdog, reduced fat string cheese, etc.


Good suggestions, thank you.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

with the little guys it is better to use their kibble as a treat, prevents digestive upset and a finicky dog imho


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

twyla said:


> with the little guys it is better to use their kibble as a treat, prevents digestive upset and a finicky dog imho


It must be so hard not to fill them up during training! Even with Peggy, I feed half her kibble by hand as rewards. But I use a special “treat kibble,” which is different from her mealtime kibble.


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## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> It must be so hard not to fill them up during training! Even with Peggy, I feed half her kibble by hand as rewards. But I use a special “treat kibble,” which is different from her mealtime kibble.


It is hard! Milo weighed 2 pounds 3 ounces when his breeder took him to the vet last week. That’s got to be a really little tummy.

This is only day 4, but here’s what I’m doing:

I hand feed him kibble dipped in low sodium beef broth for his meals. (He wasn’t very interested in the kibble by itself). I dip a pice and give it to him, crunch, crunch, crunch, he eats it, then he looks at me and I give him another. We keep doing this until he’s full and loses interest. I like the idea that he looks at me and something good happens.

I’ve been giving him tiny pieces of cheese to celebrate when he potties in his potty area.

This morning I cut a carrot into little pieces, and steamed them until they were chewy. He thinks they’re fabulous, so I’m using them to charge his clicker.
I think I’ll stay with cheese and veggies and fruit for rewards for now and save chicken for later. I’d love to use kibble, but it doesn’t excite him very much and it takes a long time to chew.

Does this sound like the right approach?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Little Milo said:


> It is hard! Milo weighed 2 pounds 3 ounces when his breeder took him to the vet last week. That’s got to be a really little tummy.
> 
> This is only day 4, but here’s what I’m doing:
> 
> ...


Sounds like you’re doing what works best for you and Milo, which is always the best approach.

For broth I’d be making my own. Onion is toxic to dogs and the effects can be cumulative. Assuming Milo can tolerate chicken, the water from boiling white chicken breast would be a good option if and when you decide to start using chicken. Then you can shred or finely chop the chicken, and freeze it on a sheet pan before tossing it into a freezer bag.

My little girl Gracie loooooved veggies, but it was a delicate balance. Didn’t take much to push her into tummy upset territory. And the high sugar content in fruit can have similar effects.

I think a big challenge with toys is that you don’t want to crowd out the complete nutrition of a kibble with treats, even healthy ones. And “tiny” to us can pack a surprising number of calories relative to a toy’s daily intake. @Phaz23 might have some good ideas for you.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I feed commercial raw and give dehydrated Buffalo and occasionally dehydrated chicken liver as treats. Swizzle also enjoys the occasional carrot or piece of cheese but they are not high value enough for him to use as a training treat. Swizzle is a toy so dehydrated should not be an issue for you. I would be worried about the runs with all but a tiny bite of fruit.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

All my puppies were not interested in food when I brought them home this last about a week, I do not free feed but have set meal times, and I pick up the food after about 10 minutes if they haven't eaten I will offer food again in an hour, they catch on quick.
I learned this the hard way, more than one occasion I gave my first puppy turkey trots, and the 2 a.m. night mare when my pup had squirts through out my small place.


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## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Sounds like you’re doing what works best for you and Milo, which is always the best approach.
> 
> For broth I’d be making my own. Onion is toxic to dogs and the effects can be cumulative. Assuming Milo can tolerate chicken, the water from boiling white chicken breast would be a good option if and when you decide to start using chicken. Then you can shred or finely chop the chicken, and freeze it on a sheet pan before tossing it into a freezer bag.
> 
> ...


I really like your idea of making my own broth. I make my own vegetable broth for cooking, but I always put in onions. I didn’t even think about the beef broth having onion. I’ll have to check the label. I really would like as many of his calories as possible to come from his kibble.

He’s definitely getting more cheese treats in a day than carrots. The cheese is every potty (but a really tiny amount), but the carrots are just once a day right now. I welcome all suggestions. I feel like I’m in over my head and making this up as I go.🤔


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## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

CT Girl said:


> I feed commercial raw and give dehydrated Buffalo and occasionally dehydrated chicken liver as treats. Swizzle also enjoys the occasional carrot or piece of cheese but they are not high value enough for him to use as a training treat. Swizzle is a toy so dehydrated should not be an issue for you. I would be worried about the runs with all but a tiny bite of fruit.


Thank you! I was mostly thinking the occasional bit of banana for fruit. I think I’ll need to add new things one at a time and in small quantities until I get this figured out.


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## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

twyla said:


> All my puppies were not interested in food when I brought them home this last about a week, I do not free feed but have set meal times, and I pick up the food after about 10 minutes if they haven't eaten I will offer food again in an hour, they catch on quick.
> I learned this the hard way, more than one occasion I gave my first puppy turkey trots, and the 2 a.m. night mare when my pup had squirts through out my small place.


Thank you for the heads up! It’s so hard when they first come home. I’m trying to balance my fear of hypoglycemia if he doesn’t eat enough with trying to avoid starting bad habits (or the squirts!)


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

Basil (Spoo) got instant pot carrots as a baby too. It's harvest time in gardens across the us right now. So, get em while they are fresh and sweet. 

Your doing good. The handfeeding is good for bonding.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Little Milo said:


> Thank you for the heads up! It’s so hard when they first come home. I’m trying to balance my fear of hypoglycemia if he doesn’t eat enough with trying to avoid starting bad habits (or the squirts!)


It's tough, but this is where a lot of folks end up with finicky poodles. I did hand feed my boy, my girls were piglets


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## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

Basil_the_Spoo said:


> Basil (Spoo) got instant pot carrots as a baby too. It's harvest time in gardens across the us right now. So, get em while they are fresh and sweet.
> 
> Your doing good. The handfeeding is good for bonding.


Aww, thank you. I really needed to hear that.💖


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## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

twyla said:


> It's tough, but this is where a lot of folks end up with finicky poodles. I did hand feed my boy, my girls were piglets


I really appreciate your advice. It’s so helpful to hear from someone with more experience.Thank you.


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## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Sounds like you’re doing what works best for you and Milo, which is always the best approach.
> 
> For broth I’d be making my own. Onion is toxic to dogs and the effects can be cumulative. Assuming Milo can tolerate chicken, the water from boiling white chicken breast would be a good option if and when you decide to start using chicken. Then you can shred or finely chop the chicken, and freeze it on a sheet pan before tossing it into a freezer bag.
> 
> ...


I feel like such a dim bulb! I never even thought to check the ingredients on the beef broth when I ran out to buy it Wednesday night. I usually cook vegetarian, so I guess I was thinking, “Vegetable broth = all vegetables, beef broth = all beef.” I’m a little exhausted and dopey right now….🤪


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Aw. You’re doing great. Those first weeks can be so overwhelming.

Are you in contact with your pup’s breeder? They can be a great resource. I really appreciated being able to text with ours.


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## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Aw. You’re doing great. Those first weeks can be so overwhelming.
> 
> Are you in contact with your pup’s breeder? They can be a great resource. I really appreciated being able to text with ours.


Thank you. I really appreciate that. I admire everything you’ve written about your approach with Peggy.

I am in contact with Milo’s breeder. She’s great, but in her words, she’s better with dogs than people! She’s been breeding toys for many years, and is a little old school in her approach. I get very firm replies when I ask about deviating from what she does. ☺ But, to her credit, she loves poodles and has put her heart and soul into breeding very nice, healthy puppies for more than 40 years.


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## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Sounds like you’re doing what works best for you and Milo, which is always the best approach.
> 
> For broth I’d be making my own. Onion is toxic to dogs and the effects can be cumulative. Assuming Milo can tolerate chicken, the water from boiling white chicken breast would be a good option if and when you decide to start using chicken. Then you can shred or finely chop the chicken, and freeze it on a sheet pan before tossing it into a freezer bag.
> 
> ...


I have a fickle toy boy for sure- I would stay away from spicing up his kibble with broth because it has a lot of ingredients in it that are no good for dogs. Primal makes a broth specifically for dogs if you wanna go that route. Hand feeding is great for training but you probably want to make sure he can eat from a bowl. When Tekno is being picky about kibble sometimes tossing it so that he has to go catch it helps him eat or playing with him/going for a walk stimulates his appetite. As for treats, I use freeze dried raw (primal and nulo), cheese (tillamook cheese packs) and packets of organic one ingredient meats made for people like slow cooked salmon or jerky bites. I don’t feed fruit because of the sugar. Here’s an example of a nice snack you can find at you local organic grocer (these are usually cheaper than the ones made specifically for dogs):


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## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

Phaz23 said:


> I have a fickle toy boy for sure- I would stay away from spicing up his kibble with broth because it has a lot of ingredients in it that are no good for dogs. Primal makes a broth specifically for dogs if you wanna go that route. Hand feeding is great for training but you probably want to make sure he can eat from a bowl. When Tekno is being picky about kibble sometimes tossing it so that he has to go catch it helps him eat or playing with him/going for a walk stimulates his appetite. As for treats, I use freeze dried raw (primal and nulo), cheese (tillamook cheese packs) and packets of organic one ingredient meats made for people like slow cooked salmon or jerky bites. I don’t feed fruit because of the sugar. Here’s an example of a nice snack you can find at you local organic grocer (these are usually cheaper than the ones made specifically for dogs):
> View attachment 481634


Great suggestions!!! Thank you so much!!


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## ivy1 (12 mo ago)

Rosemary can cause seizures. Not sure about the tomato powder. My tiny toy liked cooked wild salmon rare, with lightly steamed organic broccoli. And remember nutmeg is highly toxic. Will cause drunkenness. Sardines sb salt free in water. Toys do best on distilled water. Stella and Chewy sells a dehydrated puppy food.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

@ivy1 can you please say more about Toys doing better on distilled water? I'm sure there must be a veterinary source for that, just I can't locate it. I was thinking minerals are good, but maybe not?


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

ivy1 said:


> Rosemary can cause seizures. Not sure about the tomato powder. My tiny toy liked cooked wild salmon rare, with lightly steamed organic broccoli. And remember nutmeg is highly toxic. Will cause drunkenness. Sardines sb salt free in water. Toys do best on distilled water. Stella and Chewy sells a dehydrated puppy food.


I think this information needs to be treated with great care. It's more complicated than a simple yes/no recommendation. I did find a study (link here) discussing the relationship between rosemary and seizures. However, the context of the study was essential oils, and more plants than rosemary were sources of the problematic compound. Essential oils have much higher concentration of rosemary than a dog might get in, say, a dollop of spaghetti sauce seasoned with a pinch of herbs. I think, all in all, it is a good idea to remember that natural does not always equal safe. Unnatural concentrations of many natural compounds - e.g. dietary supplements, natural pesticides, essential oils, etc. - could be dangerous for animals, especially small ones or ones already suffering liver and kidney issues.

I also think distilled water is overhyped. The diet industry has been tapping into our love of purity for years in order to sell us detox and cleansing treatments along with bottled waters. I find it rather hilarious that one side of the industry sells, figures out, ways to remove minerals and electrolytes from water, while the other side of the industry sells mineral laden spring water and electrolyte enhanced sports drinks. There are certainly reasons to buy bottled water, such as when a house has bad tasting sulfur laden well water, but I don't think it's necessary to spring for distilled water under normal circumstances.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

ivy1 said:


> Toys do best on distilled water.


There is no scientific basis for this. However I did find an article stating clearly dogs shouldn’t be given distilled water





__





Can Water Make Dogs Sick? | PetMD






www.petmd.com





*“Distilled Water*
A small amount of distilled water is not harmful to your pet, but as a sole source of water, it is not recommended and can lead to serious side effects.

“Distilled water lacks minerals and can cause the body to loose important electrolytes through the kidneys, leading to low blood levels,” says Hennessey. This type of water can also soak into tissues more than water with minerals, thereby causing edema or over-hydration and water toxicity, which can be harmful to cells and tissues.”



I’m not surprised by the info Cowpony found. Essential oils are distilled oils which concentrate certain components of a natural substance. You can’t compare an essential oil with the original plant. The plant may be completely safe to ingest but the concentrated oil is a poison.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

ivy1 said:


> distilled water


Maybe filtered water is what was meant? I've seen that recommended but never distilled.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Distilled water is any type of purified water that has had its minerals and contaminants completely removed. While it is completely safe for your pooch to drink distilled water, it's not as healthy for him as regular water as it lacks the essential minerals and ions that good old unfiltered tap water can provide.
Great for clothes irons, I stick to bottled or filtered water because I think my tap water tastes nasty.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Rose n Poos said:


> Maybe filtered water is what was meant? I've seen that recommended but never distilled.


Hopefully. Nothing wrong with filtered, especially if you live in certain areas where drinking water is improved with a filter.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

I agree small amounts of rosemary are completely fine. I researched it a while ago when I saw it in treats. It can't be compared to a concentrated oil.

Regardless of whether distilled water is safe or unsafe or preferred, Misha won't drink it. I once tried giving it to him (it is sometimes recommended to help with eye goop) and he took a brief sip and then refused to touch it. Eventually I realized he was just going to dehydrate himself because he just stood by his water bowl looking upset later that day. When I replaced it with normal water he drank a bunch. So I would be concerned about a dog not drinking enough if they don't like the taste.


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