# Help with poodle stigma?



## Tara18 (11 mo ago)

Hey everyone!
I absolutely adore poodles and through all my research, as well as working with dogs of all breeds, I've come to the conclussion that a standard would be perfect for my family.
The problem is they can't get over the 'stigma' of them.
My mother has said she'd even be too embarrassed to tell anyone she owned a poodle.
I've tried to talk to her about this and show her that having a poodle is nothing to be ashamed of and that they are amazing dogs.
She much prefers 'Doodles', which I am strongly against. Why get a doodle when you can get a poodle?
She prefers their 'look', but even after showing her pictures of poodles with less 'poodle' cuts, she still seems to be standing firm.

I'm struggling to get through to her and I'm wondering if any of you have any tips or ideas on how to break this mold?


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Apparently, the more percent poodle, the better the doodle. I often meet owners who proudly tell me, their dog is 87 1/2 % poodle. 
You can trim a poodle in ant way. Look at Japanese Teddy cuts.
I am certainly biased and would go for a poodle any day. Strong, athletic hunting dogs with a sense of humour and a wicked intelligence. What's not to like.
I generally love dogs and fell every breed has its merits, that unfortunately doesn't always shine in mixes. It's not a given, that the best traits from both breeds show. It could be the worst and then you've got double up.
Good luck and follow your heart. Most get over their stigma once they get to know the dog.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

If you live independently, it's your decision. But if you're reliant on your mother and/or others, perhaps look into another breed for now. Best to avoid Poodle mixes altogether, imho. There are many, many wonderful breeds and while one can love Poodles, one can also love other breeds as well. I do 🥰.

Or, go with a mix from a rescue who seems wonderful.


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## Tara18 (11 mo ago)

Streetcar said:


> If you live independently, it's your decision. But if you're reliant on your mother and/or others, perhaps look into another breed for now. Best to avoid Poodle mixes altogether, imho. There are many, many wonderful breeds and while one can love Poodles, one can also love other breeds as well. I do 🥰.
> 
> Or, go with a mix from a rescue who seems wonderful.


I am in my mid-twenties and live with my mom and early twenties sister.
Sadly we need a more hypoallergenic breed, but I have definitely been keeping an eye on rescues in the area. I would love to rescue but it's super rare they get any breed that is good with allergies, and we have to make sure they'll get along with our other pets!


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

Show some videos of working poodles!




 This video is a guy hunting ducks with his poodle shows some dead ducks so don't watch if sensitive to that





 Service dog poodle




 Another service dog this one at a school- this one really LOOKS like a doodle so that's cool




 Schutzhund poodle
Just some fun examples of poodles doing thing that are outside of what people think of a prissy poodle doing


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

Also hypoallergenic breeds... What about a West highland terrier? There's also the Portuguese water dog.

Edit: most doodles aren't actually hypoallergenic. So gotta watch our for that.


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## Tara18 (11 mo ago)

naybaloog said:


> Also hypoallergenic breeds... What about a West highland terrier?


We're looking for a bigger dog!


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

Omg I meant soft coated wheaten terrier lol.

Also yeah... Doodles aren't really hypoallergenic


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## Tara18 (11 mo ago)

naybaloog said:


> Omg I meant soft coated wheaten terrier lol.
> 
> Also yeah... Doodles aren't really hypoallergenic


Our wheaten just passed not too long ago and we do love wheatens but we just don't think we're ready for another. Would remind us too much of our boy.


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

Awww I'm sorry to hear that.

What about Portuguese water dog? I mean I'm all for continuing to try for a poodle but thinking of other back up breeds won't hurt.


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## Tara18 (11 mo ago)

naybaloog said:


> Awww I'm sorry to hear that.
> 
> What about Portuguese water dog? I mean I'm all for continuing to try for a poodle but thinking of other back up breeds won't hurt.


Yeah definitely! I've had bad experiences working with portuguese water dogs so I'm not sure I'd want to own one. We've been looking a little at spanish water dogs but I still think a poodle would be great for us!


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## CharlietheToy (Oct 20, 2021)

Minie said:


> Apparently, the more percent poodle, the better the doodle. I often meet owners who proudly tell me, their dog is 87 1/2 % poodle.
> You can trim a poodle in ant way. Look at Japanese Teddy cuts.
> I am certainly biased and would go for a poodle any day. Strong, athletic hunting dogs with a sense of humour and a wicked intelligence. What's not to like.
> I generally love dogs and fell every breed has its merits, that unfortunately doesn't always shine in mixes. It's not a given, that the best traits from both breeds show. It could be the worst and then you've got double up.
> Good luck and follow your heart. Most get over their stigma once they get to know the dog.


Wow, I learned something. I live in Japan, but I never realized the Teddy Bear cut was a Japan-only thing. Our toy has a minor underbite, and we were advised a Teddy cut would disguise this, but we are resisting! He's fabulous no matter what. To the OP, I come from an anti-poodle family, but I started reading about them after developing some pretty severe allergies and realized it's a great breed. Actually, I don't think I ever had doubts about a standard, as they are so dignified and elegant, but standards are too big for our Japanese apartment. I looked for a miniature twelve years ago, but they are almost nonexistent in Japan for some reason, so we ended up getting a Polish Lowland Sheepdog, also hypoallergenic, and she was a terrific family member until she passed away at the end of 2020. Twelve years later, I updated my research and poodles were once again the obvious answer. So we found Charlie, and he has proven to be a wonderful dog in so many ways - smart, athletic, funny, loyal to his family, great with other dogs, etc., etc. We have a lot of doodles in our neighborhood as well, and some of them are lovely, but Charlie got jumped by one and I'd never consider it.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Barbets are the best non-poodle option for a similar temperament. If she is really firm I'd opt for a barbet.

But you would never imagine the actual responses people have to poodles. I keep my poodle in all sorts of cuts from minimal to masculine to feminine. I constantly have very macho type men gushing over how much they love him. Women do too, but probably more men on average! My current boyfriend is very masculine presenting and he met Misha when I had him in a complete shave down. At first he was like please don't let him grow a fluffy head they look silly. But I sloooowly let him grow it back out and boyfriend is totally fine with it and always says how great he looks. And he is now excited I'm letting the tail grow out to a pompon again. He often walks Misha when I'm busy too. I'm not a super feminine person and I was a little unsure about responses I'd get with a poodle, especially in very poodley cuts. But mostly people just adore him. People love a beautiful dog that is well trained.

You could meet some poodles locally, especially ones in less poodley cuts. You could show her videos of poodles duck hunting like they were originally bred for in Germany.

You could also explain to her the difference in coat maintenance for a doodle and a poodle. Many doodles have shedding coats that mat like crazy. They must be brushed at least once a day to prevent matting if you don't want to keep their coat very short. Poodles are also high maintenance but don't mat near as easily. You can get away with a less intensive brushing schedule. Many groomers no longer accept doodles or require them to be on strict 4 week schedules because their coats are so difficult. There are sooo many videos online of horribly matted doodles getting shaved down if you need examples.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

If your mom is firm on her decisions then let it be or move out. You can't convince everyone on this earth what is "right" and what is "wrong", unfortunately, even if they're family. 

There's people today who still even believe the earth is flat, but hey, what can you do? 🤷‍♂️


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

Orrrrr
Convince her that "German Water Retriever" is a new type of dog, like a sub group of poodles, but DEFINITELY NOT poodles (even tho they look EXACTLY the same) and somehow convince a "German water retriever" breeder to call them that in front of your mom. 

Background info on the new type of dog: German water retrievers, as as opposed to prissy poodles, can only be kept in two cuts: short or doodle-like. As soon as you put them into anything resembling a pom pom cut they magically become a poodle. The good news is the can revert to their water retrieverness after you cut their hair again.


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## kuriooo (Feb 17, 2010)

I’m with Basil’s dad- moms usually win, lol. My 13 yo son desperately wants a Border Terrier. I looked a the breed briefly, I’m not into terrier characteristics no matter how cute they are. So we have a Standard Poodle. I know you are an adult, but….Mom’s. 🤣🤣🤣

on a serious note though, the comments about doodles not being 100% hypoallergenic plus having different coat characteristics that may take as much grooming as a poodle, very true. Lots of doodle breeders here in Michigan but I’m also not sure they are being health tested? So a lot of variation in the quality of the dog. Maybe a poodle / doodle rescue organization in your area might have a lovely adult your family will fall in love with! Good luck!


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## EJStevenP (Oct 27, 2021)

Regarding doodles: 
Several years ago a friend of mine bought a doodle from a backyard breeder. She was told the dog was half lab/half poodle and would by hypoallergenic. My friend's husband was all for getting a hunting companion and thought it was awesome that the lab was over 100 pounds and the poodle was 60 pounds. Shortly after bringing the dog home my friend discovered that the dog was not, in fact, hypoallergenic at all. She was also growing incredibly fast and soon became a 45 pound 4 month old puppy. My friend got overwhelmed and I ended up adopting the dog who I named Jane. Came to find out that Jane was the sweetest dog with the shaggiest and most shedding coat imaginable. She was also poorly bred and suffered from recurring UTIs, ear infections, and other health issues because SHOCKER the backyard breeder didn't care about health testing or even understand the breeding that goes into making a "doodle coat'. Poor Jane died at 5 years old after another infection turned systemic. She was also 110 pounds. I loved that dog and think about her a lot. So. Yeah. Watch out for doodles. 

I keep my standards in short cuts with minimal floof because it's easier on me. When we go out people ask what kind of dog they are. My aunt watched the three of them run, jump, and play in the backyard. She asked me if I was sure they were poodles because they definitely didn't seem like what she thought poodles were. My dogs are favorites at daycare because they keep the other dogs entertained and have the best temperaments. My trainer loves working with them because they are smart and take maybe 1-2 tries before they pick up on a cue. In short, TEAM POODLE FOR LIFE. Thank you for reading my essay.


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## Christine.G (Nov 19, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> At first he was like please don't let him grow a fluffy head they look silly.


My husband was the same way! But he insisted I not, under any circumstances, put poodle boots (bracelets, poms) on Daisy. Of course I let them grow in slowly and now, he won't let me shave them off! Same thing with Daisy's pink tail  
And the compliments! People stopping their cars to gush about my SPOO - I love it!


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## TK9NY (Jan 6, 2017)

Unfortunately you can't always reason with people. When those "people" are your parents, it's especially hard. You'll always be their child so even if you're 100% correct and have the research to back it up they're just hardwired to think they're the parent, they're the adult, it's their call, etc etc. 

You're also dealing with matter of opinion, here - her liking this dog over that dog. While i disagree with the unethical breeding of "doodles" and i would never SUPPORT the breeding/sale of them, a part of me is also against strong-arming someone away from their own personal opinions. You're allowed to like or dislike whatever you want and no one has the "right" to forcefully change those opinions. If mom doesn't like poodles, it isn't fair to try to FORCE her to change her mind about them. She has to do that on her own, if she wants to, once presented with facts. 

And some people just don't like Poodles - which is perfectly fine. There are breeds that I don't like, myself. No one is going to change my mind on them, either. I'm very stubborn. All you can do is show her that the stereotypes aren't true, that Poodles can make wonderful companions, and so on and so forth and let her come to her own conclusions. Sometimes being too pushy provides the opposite effect of what you want, too.

I think the main problem is the "doodle" part of the equation, here. So, mom doesn't like Poodles and that's fine.... but she likes "doodles". Why? What draws her to the "doodle"? If you can figure that out, maybe you can find a totally DIFFERENT breed that everyone can agree on. Or, you can take her reasonings and try to explain to her why "doodle" may not actually fit them. Like the whole "they don't shed and are hypoallergenic" thing - not true in the slightest. Dealing with two different traits, each with a 50/50 shot of being inherited by anything crossed half Poodle half whatever. 

Outline to her your concerns about supporting unethical breeding, and how unethical breeders often skip important health testing and breed for looks and not temperament or health. Maybe if faced with the potential to be paying thousands of dollars for medical care if the dog inherits something bad she'll be more likely to re-consider at least the "doodle" thing. If she's still dead set, then maybe try to steer her towards a rescue. I can support rescuing a "doodle" no problem and you wouldn't be supporting unethical breeding.

In the end, if she's the one paying for this dog, then she's the one with final call. At that point, i would personally step back and tell her: "Look, you want a "doodle" despite everything i've tried to tell you.... okay. But i won't be a part of it. And by that i mean i won't help you care for this dog beyond making sure it stays alive and well, because i can't support neglect either. But i don't feel comfortable supporting unethical breeding and i can't risk becoming attached to a dog that may have serious health or behavioral problems. Sorry, but this is your dog and your call."

I used to have the same idea about Poodles. Prissy frou-frou dogs that do nothing but look silly. I think the show cuts were what got me. Then i became a groomer and actually worked with them. My mentors both had standards, and working with those dogs was what changed my mind about them. Yes they were graceful and elegant and have the potential to look very pretty and very silly... but they were also silly, clumsy, dorky clowns that just wanted to have fun. They're versatile, smart, highly trainable, and fun. Now i have two of them. I had to wait 5 or 6 years to get my first but it was worth it. 

It's a pity more people don't like them, but again - everyone is allowed their own opinion (even if it's fueled by misinformation and stereotype.)


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## TK9NY (Jan 6, 2017)

Just wanted to add - one of the benefits of a poodle is they don't have to LOOK like one. I had Dublin in an "airedale" like pattern for a long time. There are also very minimalist clips - most of the poodles i groom are done short all over, no fluff or poof. Some of them are even working dogs - they retrieve game for hunters, like they were bred to do.


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## X skully X (Nov 21, 2021)

My husband and son both thought poodles were really ugly. So I showed them videos on YouTube from panda love, their standard poodles are extremely fluffy with fluffy faces. Now that we have our standard poodle boy they think poodles are awesome. My husband said the other day he can’t believe he actually thought poodles were ugly! He kinda took my poodle from me! If I want to be the one to walk him I have to almost sneak out of the house when the hubby is busy! We all enjoyed the puppy fluff but I shaved him down a few weeks ago and he is still so so handsome. On another note, my standard poodle is extremely active and needs a lot of one on one time. He is a LOT of work.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

It would be absolutely terrible if you went to Quebec for your doodle puppy and discovered after the fact that the dog was in fact a pure bred poodle with an undocked tail. Better get help from one of our French speaking members to ensure no translation errors occur when you are making your selection.


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## The Popster (Feb 23, 2021)

When I said I would like a Poodle.... well everyone who knew me raised their eyebrows.
They were sure I would go for the other choice a Rhodesian Ridgeback.
And too be fair when I decided upon a Poodle, my eyebrows rose too!!
Why ?
Because of those pre conceptions people have.

I would say 'Sod 'em' and do what you want.
On top of which those you know who are sceptical will soon change their minds, as so many do once they get to know this amazing breed.

Word of caution, I'm sure you will have researched all there is about taking on a Poodle - but even with the knowledge and understanding you think your research has given you - the reality is quite something else!!
Good and bad.
Thankfully the good outweighs the 'bad'.


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## EJStevenP (Oct 27, 2021)

TK9NY said:


> View attachment 489178
> 
> 
> Just wanted to add - one of the benefits of a poodle is they don't have to LOOK like one. I had Dublin in an "airedale" like pattern for a long time. There are also very minimalist clips - most of the poodles i groom are done short all over, no fluff or poof. Some of them are even working dogs - they retrieve game for hunters, like they were bred to do.


Candy corn legs!!!


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

It is so frustrating to hear that someone would be embarrassed to own a poodle but prefer a doodle. Most of the things that make a doodle desirable come from the poodle, except of course the name. So why the poodle hate? They can’t actually have it both ways. Seriously though the doodle is a brilliant marketing ploy that rebrands unstable and unreliable versions of desirable poodle characteristics while crapping on all the work that went (and continues to go) into making the poodle. 
If she can’t get past the poodle stigma, other similar nonshedding breeds include the already-mentioned portie and barbet, both of which resemble (and probably share ancestry with) poodles and by extension doodles. In a similar category is the lagotto romagnolo (sp?) which is the Italian version of the water dog, and I think there may be another European water/hunting dog I’m not thinking of. 
Schnauzers are apparently also less allergenic, and if you did well with a wheaten before, that could work. Or, if a doodle is a must, adopt an adult poodle mix which has matured enough to prove it has the poodly coat you need.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Irish Water Spaniel might be another possibility.


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

cowpony said:


> Irish Water Spaniel might be another possibility.


That’s the one that was on the tip of my tongue!

It's kind of objectionable to me, but for the sake of winning over your mom, OP, you might think about describing some of the other european water dogs as "historical doodles" - most share ancestry with poodles, if not having poodle ancestry themselves. [Do not share this line of argument with any prospective alternative water dog breeders though, it probably won't endear you to them!] 
A true 'historical doodle', in the sense that its name honors the poodle cross in its history, is the Pudelpointer, which is a german hunting breed developed by crossing pointers and poodles (recognized by UKC and CKC but not AKC apparently) . They may or may not have the coat you are looking, for though it might be ok - it is described as wiry and dense with little shedding (but they do shed). Unlike contemporary doodles, the pudelpointer (according to wikipedia) used a lot more pointer than poodle in developing the breed. The one I've met is super sweet, but she is quite old so it's hard to know what kind of dog she was like when she was younger. All the pointers I know are more intense, higher drive and even higher energy than the standard poodles I know, so I would do more research before choosing one of these dogs.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

This thread is hilarious, thanks to everyone for their advice, "advice," and anecdotes!


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## Poodle2021 (Mar 14, 2021)

Sounds like many of us have walked this road before! 

I can’t quite tell if the dog will be yours (financially, emotionally, ownership, in all ways entirely yours) or if this is going to be a family pet? If it’s 100% yours, you are an adult and get to choose the breed you want, while of course taking into consideration the reasonable concerns of the family living with you. Maybe not great to get a large, energetic dog if you live with your lovely grandfather who may get injured. But if it’s a family dog, it seems only fair that it’s a family choice. 

I’m going to throw out this suggestion again: a soft coated Wheaton terrier. I know you said it would be too painful but it sounds like it was a great breed for your family if you loved your previous dog that much. I worried my current guy might remind me too much of past dogs I’ve loved, but he is his own unique being. Your family may just need more time to mourn the loss of your other dog before you can go get another Wheaton. Why reinvent the wheel when you all have a breed that you like? Time heals the wound of losing a dog enough to let a little wiggly puppy into your heart.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Have your Mom join Poodle Forum and ask some questions for herself. If not, certainly have her read your entire thread. I'm sure at least 50% of us had those thoughts "pre-poodle". I'm also pretty sure 99+% of us have gotten completely over it. They're really a wonderful pet! Much like any other dog, only different!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Let a poodle convince her.  When you spot one out and about, ask if you can say hi. Or when you find an excellent breeder, ask if you can meet some of their adults. Peggy has won over many anti-poodle folks.

That said, if the chemistry’s not there, it’s best not to force it. Standard poodles aren’t generally easy through puppyhood and adolescence. The last thing you want is an “I told you so” situation or someone in the household checking out entirely.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

It sounds like her dislike of poodles isn't really rooted in logic. The problem with trying to talk people out of illogical beliefs is that often they just double down harder. In my case, I was able to bring my husband around to the idea of having a standard poodle by appealing to his inner teenager. Ever notice how teenagers insist they are doing their own thing while wearing exactly the same brands and strategically ripped jeans as all their friends? I harnessed this same energy when it came to persuading my husband he wanted a poodle.

First, I hit him with the power of a peer group. A social circle had formed around one of our animal friends. We already had a good relationship with her multiple dogs, and then she added a poodle to the crew. So my husband now knew a poodle, and he was in the company of multiple people who all approved of this poodle. He was the odd one out if he chose to hold onto his prejudices. My husband values his friendships. Just like a teenager adopting the likes of his friends, my husband decided that this poodle, at least, was an ok dog. He was fine with getting a dog like this dog.

I then worked a bit of anti-authoritarian spirit into the mix. I wanted a poodle with an undocked tail, and by accident the puppy I found was also a parti-phantom. So this poodle was not the classic picture of a solid black or solid white dog with a pom-pom on its butt. We had great fun taking the puppy out and letting people try to guess what he was. Probably only 25% of people actually recognized him as a poodle. When my husband realized he could play this trick on people he really got into it.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

This might sound like a silly question, but does she actually understand that Standard Poodles are _big _dogs? I have met people who think that all Poodles are little (Miniature or Toy), and are surprised when I tell them that my 25" tall 45# Simon is, in fact, a Poodle, even though he is in a very Poodle-y clip.


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## Tara18 (11 mo ago)

TeamHellhound said:


> This might sound like a silly question, but does she actually understand that Standard Poodles are _big _dogs? I have met people who think that all Poodles are little (Miniature or Toy), and are surprised when I tell them that my 25" tall 45# Simon is, in fact, a Poodle, even though he is in a very Poodle-y clip.


she actually thinks they're much bigger than they actually are! Our wheaten was really big for his breed and was around 22" and 49 pounds and wants something similar to that. I told her that it all depends on the parents of the dogs too and we could look for ones specifically in that sorta 22 - 24" range.


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## Tara18 (11 mo ago)

Thank you everyone for your tips and advice!
I'll take things a little slower with her. I'll even tell her about the "German Water Retriever" 
I found a breeder I really like and I'll see if perhaps we can go visit. She's only met one Standard Poodle before and didn't spend much time with it so I'm hoping that seeing different ones and getting to spend time with them will help change her mind.
The only issue is getting her to agree to actually go visit them


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## Christine.G (Nov 19, 2020)

TeamHellhound said:


> This might sound like a silly question, but does she actually understand that Standard Poodles are _big _dogs? I have met people who think that all Poodles are little (Miniature or Toy), and are surprised when I tell them that my 25" tall 45# Simon is, in fact, a Poodle, even though he is in a very Poodle-y clip.


BTW you have THE coolest name - TeamHellHound! I flipping love it!


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## I_love_dogs (May 30, 2021)

Loki was just in a class with a Golden doodle. Halfway through the class, the owners got her trimmed to a poodle cut. Unless you were looking hard, you wouldn't be able to tell which was the doodle and which was the Standard Poodle. Behavior wise, they have similar issues although the other dog barks more. 
Of the two, Loki is the larger dog even though he isn't all that large for a Spoo. The poor doodle is a golden retriever miniature poodle mix. We must have a breeder in the area because that is the third one I have met recently. At least one of the owners got scammed into believing that Goldendoodles are a real breed that can be registered. There is some organization that is giving out certificates and claim they are similar to AKC.


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## kuriooo (Feb 17, 2010)

TK9NY said:


> Unfortunately you can't always reason with people. When those "people" are your parents, it's especially hard. You'll always be their child so even if you're 100% correct and have the research to back it up they're just hardwired to think they're the parent, they're the adult, it's their call, etc etc.
> 
> You're also dealing with matter of opinion, here - her liking this dog over that dog. While i disagree with the unethical breeding of "doodles" and i would never SUPPORT the breeding/sale of them, a part of me is also against strong-arming someone away from their own personal opinions. You're allowed to like or dislike whatever you want and no one has the "right" to forcefully change those opinions. If mom doesn't like poodles, it isn't fair to try to FORCE her to change her mind about them. She has to do that on her own, if she wants to, once presented with facts.
> 
> ...


Great point. Don’t tell my 13 yo, but if he presented me w an adult Border Terrier with none of the characteristics perceive to be true about the breed and terriers as a whole, I’d probably cave. Good thing he’s not on Poodle Forum. 🤣🤣


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## kuriooo (Feb 17, 2010)

cowpony said:


> It would be absolutely terrible if you went to Quebec for your doodle puppy and discovered after the fact that the dog was in fact a pure bred poodle with an undocked tail. Better get help from one of our French speaking members to ensure no translation errors occur when you are making your selection.


Could you tell much of a difference between that and the “87%” poodle??


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## kuriooo (Feb 17, 2010)

cowpony said:


> It sounds like her dislike of poodles isn't really rooted in logic. The problem with trying to talk people out of illogical beliefs is that often they just double down harder. In my case, I was able to bring my husband around to the idea of having a standard poodle by appealing to his inner teenager. Ever notice how teenagers insist they are doing their own thing while wearing exactly the same brands and strategically ripped jeans as all their friends? I harnessed this same energy when it came to persuading my husband he wanted a poodle.
> 
> First, I hit him with the power of a peer group. A social circle had formed around one of our animal friends. We already had a good relationship with her multiple dogs, and then she added a poodle to the crew. So my husband now knew a poodle, and he was in the company of multiple people who all approved of this poodle. He was the odd one out if he chose to hold onto his prejudices. My husband values his friendships. Just like a teenager adopting the likes of his friends, my husband decided that this poodle, at least, was an ok dog. He was fine with getting a dog like this dog.
> 
> I then worked a bit of anti-authoritarian spirit into the mix. I wanted a poodle with an undocked tail, and by accident the puppy I found was also a parti-phantom. So this poodle was not the classic picture of a solid black or solid white dog with a pom-pom on its butt. We had great fun taking the puppy out and letting people try to guess what he was. Probably only 25% of people actually recognized him as a poodle. When my husband realized he could play this trick on people he really got into it.


Love this story.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

Christine.G said:


> BTW you have THE coolest name - TeamHellHound! I flipping love it!


I had a particularly snarky, reactive mutt bitch (my current profile pic) that I started calling a hellhound, and it sort of went from there. TeamHellhound is our geocaching name, and Life with the Hellhounds is both a (sorely neglected) blog and my IG name.


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## Piper Bear (Apr 12, 2021)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Have your Mom join Poodle Forum and ask some questions for herself. If not, certainly have her read your entire thread. I'm sure at least 50% of us had those thoughts "pre-poodle". I'm also pretty sure 99+% of us have gotten completely over it. They're really a wonderful pet! Much like any other dog, only different!
> View attachment 489184
> 
> View attachment 489183
> ...


What an absolute beauty of a dog Elroy is. OP should show these pics to her mom. Irresistible.


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## Astaris888 (11 mo ago)

Hehe I was in the same boat. Then I showed my mom photos of standard poodles in "doodle" cuts.
Show her videos of Lily the standard poodle on YouTube. 



She will fall in love!

I think if you find an apricot Standard or a cream..and keep them in a doodle cut..your mom won't know the difference. I totally understand your moms fixation on doodles as my mom was the same but again Apricot/cream in a doodle cut and they look just like a teddy bear.Most poodles I have met are better behaved than doodles too but that might just be a reflection of poodle owners commitment to training. Good luck!


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

If one of the big concerns is that she would be embarrassed to tell people she has a poodle, what about agreeing (for now) to call your poodle, a doodle? Call him a double doodle maybe? With the hope that as/if she falls in love with him, she will change her mind. 
For people who are close, she can explain that she really wanted a doodle but that they were not hypoallergenic enough for your family.
I think someone on here actually made that decision and ended up being happy that they did get a poodle over a doodle after all, even though it was initially their second choice.


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## star (Feb 20, 2011)

Why not just get a poodle and your Mom can tell people it is a doodle?


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## toby2021 (11 mo ago)

star said:


> Why not just get a poodle and your Mom can tell people it is a doodle?


Yeah, I see many doodles in the neighbourhood and when asked, the owners will answer double doodles or mostly poodle (doodle cross with poodle) and etc etc … I really can’t tell.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

star said:


> Why not just get a poodle and your Mom can tell people it is a doodle?


For what it's worth, I frequently call Simon "Poodle Doodle".


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## Wooster Tim (Nov 11, 2021)

Who the hell cares what anyone else thinks, especially when it comes to our beloved Poodles. or Poodles and doodles in my case. Yes they are way more work and cost way more to groom, you don't want to know what I spend every six weeks at the "Spa". But they are super intelligent, slyly smart and sophisticated, challenging and a perfect "Non-Dumb Dog". You want a "Dumb Dog", get anything other than a Poodle or Hybrid of a Poodle. You want a complimentary friend thats smart and attentive... Get a Poodle! Why we waited so long to get the bigger ones, we have no idea! Oodles are fine, Poodles are Fantastic.


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## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Barbets are the best non-poodle option for a similar temperament. If she is really firm I'd opt for a barbet.
> 
> But you would never imagine the actual responses people have to poodles. I keep my poodle in all sorts of cuts from minimal to masculine to feminine. I constantly have very macho type men gushing over how much they love him. Women do too, but probably more men on average! My current boyfriend is very masculine presenting and he met Misha when I had him in a complete shave down. At first he was like please don't let him grow a fluffy head they look silly. But I sloooowly let him grow it back out and boyfriend is totally fine with it and always says how great he looks. And he is now excited I'm letting the tail grow out to a pompon again. He often walks Misha when I'm busy too. I'm not a super feminine person and I was a little unsure about responses I'd get with a poodle, especially in very poodley cuts. But mostly people just adore him. People love a beautiful dog that is well trained.
> 
> ...


I have the exact same experience! Grown men more than anyone else LOVE Tekno — even the garbage man stops his truck to oogle and wave at him. And when we’re walking older men are always complimenting him and ofc children scream with excitement “Poodle!!! Look, look!” I’ve literally never had a negative interaction because he’s a poodle. I think especially if the dog is friendly and nicely groomed, people will fawn over them 🥰


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Elroy puts a smile on most peoples face when they see him. I notice it from people in cars too. Poodles are genuine smile producers! 😍


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Phaz23 said:


> I have the exact same experience! Grown men more than anyone else LOVE Tekno — even the garbage man stops his truck to oogle and wave at him. And when we’re walking older men are always complimenting him and ofc children scream with excitement “Poodle!!! Look, look!” I’ve literally never had a negative interaction because he’s a poodle. I think especially if the dog is friendly and nicely groomed, people will fawn over them 🥰


We experience the same thing. I don't know how many builders etc. pose and take a selfie with the dogs. Their excuse is they want to send it to their girlfriend who loves poodles. Yeah right! They go all wooshy with them.


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## Cruella (11 mo ago)

Tara18 said:


> Hey everyone!
> I absolutely adore poodles and through all my research, as well as working with dogs of all breeds, I've come to the conclussion that a standard would be perfect for my family.
> The problem is they can't get over the 'stigma' of them.
> My mother has said she'd even be too embarrassed to tell anyone she owned a poodle.
> ...


I’m with you. Can’t beat a Poodle. Originally they were retrievers. Very strong, athletic, intelligent and mine is unbelievably attached to me. No separation problems. Just loves when we’re together. All around dogs that can do it all.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Tara18 said:


> The problem is they can't get over the 'stigma' of them.
> My mother has said she'd even be too embarrassed to tell anyone she owned a poodle.


What makes your mom feel proud, about herself, her family? I doubt that looks will be the first thing that would come to mind .
I have to wonder which will give her more of those feelings, a doodle? a poodle? some other breed?

Poodles are smart, savvy, sensitive, and selfish. They observe, reason, consider and conclude, with more than a bit of "What's in it for me?". They aren't a separate part of your life, they're smack in the middle of it and thrive with that. It's hard to make clear just how "not alone" you'll be with a poodle in your life, not in an unhealthy way for either of you, but because that's what you both sign up for.


I post these quotes occasionally, to give someone new to poodles a point of view they may not have considered.

_"Poodles are Labs with a college education. My Poodle will do anything your Labrador will do. After a day of retrieving in the field, your Lab wants to curl up and snore in front of the fire. My Poodle wants to be a fourth at bridge and tell naughty stories."
Anne Rogers Clark, the famous handler, all breed judge and Poodle breeder.

Furness 1891
The American Book of the Dog (1891)

"....He is also, in my opinion, more susceptible of education than any other member of his race, seeming to have an innate love for tricks, and needing only to understand what you wish to do it immediately, and then enjoy the fun of it as much as you do.

"Yet, notwithstanding his wonderful intelligence, the greatest patience is required in teaching each new trick. Remember that he is even more anxious to understand you than you are to make him comprehend what you wish, and that a word of encouragement or a friendly pat on the head goes ten times as far as a scolding or a blow. At the same time, bear in mind that the greatest firmness is required, for if a dog for a moment suspects that your whole heart and soul are not in the matter, he at once thinks it must be of small consequence and loses all interest in it forthwith.

"Make him think you are both doing something for mutual amusement, and he will respond and do everything in his power to follow out your wishes, provided he is already firmly attached to you; and in this lies the secret of success or failure in all training; for as he cannot understand your language, he must know by heart all your gestures and intonations....")_


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## Apricot mini momma (Dec 22, 2020)

If you want to try one more thing…. seeing and interacting with a poodle, in person, can do wonders. Several people I know were not “big” on poodles, but now that they know Beau, they are so surprised at how much fun he is. It isn’t that Beau is exceptional as far as poodles go (of course he is to me🤩), it’s just that the way poodles walk, and interact, and those eyes, can be enough to change a person’s perspective.


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

Apricot mini momma said:


> seeing and interacting with a poodle, in person, can do wonders.


This! I've had similar experiences. Once anti-poodle buddies were exposed to Happy, their hearts melted and they became enlightened.


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## NaturalPoodle (Jun 13, 2019)

I like the idea of finding out what your Mom likes about doodles but doesn't like about poodles and going from there, as has been mentioned. 

I know it sounds silly to us poodle lovers, but some people just don't like the sound of the breed name. Why "doodle" works but "poodle" doesn't, I don't get...but it literally can make a difference for some people!


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## NaturalPoodle (Jun 13, 2019)

PS I kind of love the idea of bringing a poodle home and telling her it's a doodle... is that terrible ha ha...

Mostly joking ;-)


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## JBM (Feb 23, 2021)

Tara18 said:


> Hey everyone!
> I absolutely adore poodles and through all my research, as well as working with dogs of all breeds, I've come to the conclussion that a standard would be perfect for my family.
> The problem is they can't get over the 'stigma' of them.
> My mother has said she'd even be too embarrassed to tell anyone she owned a poodle.
> ...





TK9NY said:


> View attachment 489178
> 
> 
> Just wanted to add - one of the benefits of a poodle is they don't have to LOOK like one. I had Dublin in an "airedale" like pattern for a long time. There are also very minimalist clips - most of the poodles i groom are done short all over, no fluff or poof. Some of them are even working dogs - they retrieve game for hunters, like they were bred to do.





Tara18 said:


> Hey everyone!
> I absolutely adore poodles and through all my research, as well as working with dogs of all breeds, I've come to the conclussion that a standard would be perfect for my family.
> The problem is they can't get over the 'stigma' of them.
> My mother has said she'd even be too embarrassed to tell anyone she owned a poodle.
> ...


We have had 4 Standard Poodles and wouldn’t consider any other breed. They are intelligent, althletic and fun, plus they don’t shed. We currently have a brown and white Parti-color Standard Poodle. when she’s clipped in a kennel clip, she resembles a soft, fluffy Springer Spaniel. Sometimes we do a German Clip and people come and ask What kind of dog do you have, it’s beautiful. We love the Parti-colors because each is so different. They may be a good option for a Standard if your family doesn’t want a traditional looking poodle.


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## Jbean (Feb 18, 2019)

My current guy is the apricot color. People are always asking me if he's a goldendoodle Because of his color. My standard response is "poodledoodle; half poodle and the other half is poodle." Where I live poodle puppies are cheaper than doodles. There are at least seven other standard poodles in my neighborhood that I know. They're pretty popular here, outnumbered only by mixes, labs and goldens.


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## Retro Chick (Nov 20, 2020)

Interestingly, I’m finding in my experience that I hear a lot about people hating poodles, but whenever I take mine out in public people go nuts about them. Swarming and taking pictures etc. My red looks like a doodle, but my blue has a Miami cut with a long full fro of a topknot (very obviously a poodle) and she’s the one that gets the most attention. I have to admit I wasn’t always keen on poodles either, but for the life of me now I can’t remember why. Must have been entirely due to ignorance. I even swore I would never give my dog a poodle cut, but that soon vanished too, and now I prefer the classic poodle cuts. If I had the patience my girl would be in full continental all the time. Did your mom have a bad experience with a poodle at some point? We lived next to a very exuberant and untrained poodle when I was a kid and that dog was the reason my whole family hated poodles. Seems strange to pin that on only the poodle breed though as any dog can be a nuisance if untrained and allowed to behave badly. I don’t know why, but poodles get the brunt of the breed hate. Do you know of a really well behaved poodle you can introduce to your mom? That’s what finally won me over. Good luck and let us know how it goes!


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## Oscar'sMom (Apr 21, 2017)

Tara18 said:


> We're looking for a bigger dog!


Westies are great dogs! If you get a good one it is a big dog in a small body.Smart, independent and sometimes stubborn though. Very different to train than poodles in my opinion. They also can be much harder to find in rescue than poodles are.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

The dog that I reacted to worst was a doodle. Not only did I react allergically, but it's coat was so awful it stuck to everything. You have no idea how a doodle will come out at all. Sadly people that think 'doodles' are like poodles and are hypoallergenic and don't shed might as well be throwing the dice. 

I thought poodles were Froo-froo dogs, and it took them a year to convince me otherwise, now I will never have anything else. Plus, they were bred in Germany as hunting dogs and can be awesome bird dogs.


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## Sdanser (May 5, 2021)

Tara18 said:


> Hey everyone!
> I absolutely adore poodles and through all my research, as well as working with dogs of all breeds, I've come to the conclussion that a standard would be perfect for my family.
> The problem is they can't get over the 'stigma' of them.
> My mother has said she'd even be too embarrassed to tell anyone she owned a poodle.
> ...


Poodles are the true hypoallergenic breed. Doodles hair can be a combo of varying degrees. My groomer daughter-in-law says some are nightmares to groom and require "maintenance" grooms in between. My husband had a negative idea of poodles. He loves him now that we have him! The grooming is something to consider. People ask "what he is" constantly because we do not do traditional cuts. They adk what kind of doodle he is. I groom myself. 
I educated my husband on the history of poodles on an AKC show about the breed. They were used in war and bred for hunting water fowl. They are great for handicap assistance and herding, who knew? My husband needed the education. They are considered 2nd in intelligence next to the border collie. There are differences in tendencies with standards, miniature, and toy poodles. Hope it helps your mom to come around!


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## Slurpee (Apr 2, 2019)

I come from a family that always has had Aussies. When ours passed and it was time for a new dog(s) I did the research with the following in mind. One, had to be a medium size dog at least. Also athletic and smart. But most importantly the missus said no more for tumble weeds. So that limited me to breed with hair, not fur. 

A standard poodle was obviously what we arrived at. My wife was not on board with their look at first either. I promised no Cosmo looks or Pom poms. Instead I cut them with a German clip to give them something of a Shepherd look. They’re both getting due for a touch up clip in the photos below. 

Another thing. I’ve had beautiful Aussies all my life. And while I got compliments on them these two Spoos have gotten 10x more attention in a couple years then all the attention I ever got with my Shepherds. I’m amazed at the number of people who come up and tell me they had one as a kid or a young adult. How much they loved them. I honestly don’t know how I never picked up on the passion about the breed. 



















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tara18 (11 mo ago)

Thank you guys so much for your help!
Just a little update... We visited a bunch of standard breeders annnd... we have put a deposit down on a pup!


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Yay! Looking forward to following along on your journey


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## Astaris888 (11 mo ago)

Tara18 said:


> Thank you guys so much for your help!
> Just a little update... We visited a bunch of standard breeders annnd... we have put a deposit down on a pup!


Yay..how did you convince her?


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## Tara18 (11 mo ago)

Astaris888 said:


> Yay..how did you convince her?


I would just keep reminding her of the stigma and all the positive things about poodles. We also visited a couple of breeders so she got to experience the breed first hand! It also helped that the breeder we decided to go with was super super nice.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Curious to know who the breeder is


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

I_love_dogs said:


> Loki was just in a class with a Golden doodle. Halfway through the class, the owners got her trimmed to a poodle cut. Unless you were looking hard, you wouldn't be able to tell which was the doodle and which was the Standard Poodle. Behavior wise, they have similar issues although the other dog barks more.
> Of the two, Loki is the larger dog even though he isn't all that large for a Spoo. The poor doodle is a golden retriever miniature poodle mix. We must have a breeder in the area because that is the third one I have met recently. At least one of the owners got scammed into believing that Goldendoodles are a real breed that can be registered. There is some organization that is giving out certificates and claim they are similar to AKC.


There is an American Canine Hybrid Club. Both parents have to be purebred registered dogs.


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## erickse20 (4 mo ago)

Tara18 said:


> We're looking for a bigger dog!


Not sure if you've decided on a dog yet, but my family is in a similar situation. Just found out that my mom's constant allergies were due to a decade plus of owning cats and dogs (one three-parts spoo, the other an aussie/sheltie lol), and we are looking for a larger hypo breed to keep out spoo mix company when our older dog passes. Currently we are looking at a spoo or lagotto, as terriers are out of the question for us lol. Porties seem a bit too energetic for our family (we have a nine year old and me, a freshman in hs), and we can't find any lagotto breeders in our area.
Other breeds to look at would be Irish water spaniels, barbets, and Spanish water dogs


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

Tara18 said:


> Hey everyone!
> I absolutely adore poodles and through all my research, as well as working with dogs of all breeds, I've come to the conclussion that a standard would be perfect for my family.
> The problem is they can't get over the 'stigma' of them.
> My mother has said she'd even be too embarrassed to tell anyone she owned a poodle.
> ...


SPoodles without Poodle cuts



































and then you can turn them into little girls!


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I have allergies to most dogs. I will never have any other breed than a 100% Standard Poodle. He is the only dog I have no problems with, UNLESS he has been in a home for a visit that has other breeds, playing with other breeds, or even rubbing on the pants or skirt of the owner of another breed, or non-breed, like a doodle for instance. (Don't trust 'breeders' or sellers who say doodles of any kind are non-shedding/hypoallergenic. Only a small % of them are.) If he has been around them, then I have to have him bathed or I even have problems with him. Just my two cents/scense.
I have no intention of having to take allergy pills for the rest of my life.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Tara18 said:


> ... The problem is they can't get over the 'stigma' of them.... " Yup, I couldn't either, thought they were 'froufrou' dogs. Well, they are athletes, and one of the two top intelligent dog breeds, amazing animals. Now I can't even understand my previous thinking.


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## erickse20 (4 mo ago)

Jilly SummerSunset said:


> SPoodles without Poodle cuts
> View attachment 497707
> View attachment 497708
> View attachment 497709
> ...


I currently have my doodle in a sporting clip and all because he get so matted when he's long (he is currently cut to about 3/4", was 5" before)...slicker brush only gets the top part of his coat, doesn't go deep enough. I have to say- I really enjoy it when he has his beard shaved off clean, even though it drives my dad crazy to see his dog look like a poodle lmao


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

erickse20 said:


> I currently have my doodle in a sporting clip and all because he get so matted when he's long (he is currently cut to about 3/4", was 5" before)...slicker brush only gets the top part of his coat, doesn't go deep enough. I have to say- I really enjoy it when he has his beard shaved off clean, even though it drives my dad crazy to see his dog look like a poodle lmao


Someone on YouTube has a decent video showing how to line brush a Golden Doodle. She uses a Chris Christensen Big G slicker, which has longer pins than a regular slicker. The combination of technique and tool might help keep the mats under control on your guy.


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

erickse20 said:


> I currently have my doodle in a sporting clip and all because he get so matted when he's long (he is currently cut to about 3/4", was 5" before)...slicker brush only gets the top part of his coat, doesn't go deep enough. I have to say- I really enjoy it when he has his beard shaved off clean, even though it drives my dad crazy to see his dog look like a poodle lmao


I tried to keep my doodle boys muzzle clipped short for the cleanliness.










Vs


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## erickse20 (4 mo ago)

cowpony said:


> Someone on YouTube has a decent video showing how to line brush a Golden Doodle. She uses a Chris Christensen Big G slicker, which has longer pins than a regular slicker. The combination of technique and tool might help keep the mats under control on your guy.


Thank you! Will have to try that as his coat grows back...I do have to state that his hair is closer to that of a spoo (thick, dense curls and coils), and it may turn out quite a bit different than the video lmao


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## erickse20 (4 mo ago)

Jilly SummerSunset said:


> I tried to keep my doodle boys muzzle clipped short for the cleanliness.
> 
> 
> View attachment 497810
> ...


Aww! Beautiful boys <3


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