# How did you decide on a size? Mini vs. Standard



## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I really wanted a spoo, but I had to take my age and ability to handle a dog which ruled out a spoo. For me the minipoo was the ideal size. 

I can easily pick up my minipoo who is 15 pounds, I'm not sure I could carry a spoo. While you normally don't need to carry your dog - if they are ever in an accident and can't walk, or elderly and need help with steps, you may have no other option. 

I was concerned about pulling on the leash; training and tools can help.

There are some places (hotels, rentals etc.) that will allow a well behaved smaller dog but refuse larger dogs.

My minipoo fits well into a car seat. My car seats 5 people - or 4 people and my dog. A larger dog would probably require more space. It's also easier to fit a minipoo under a restaurant table. 

We take our mini for 5 mile hikes without any problem. She is also training for competition agility.

Obviously the costs are less for food and grooming.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

When I chose Poppy I already had a toy dog, Sophy, so my choice of a small poodle had a lot to do with compatability. But there were a number of reasons I chose a small breed in the first place, very similar to Skylar's:
Travelling and visiting - it is much easier to go places and visit people with a small dog, and there is room in the back of the car for both humans and dogs.
Health and longevity - I looked long and hard at disease predisposition and average life span.
Exercise - from what I read, small dogs tended to need less exercise than big dogs, and I was not much into exercise at the time. This proved to be something of a fallacy, as Sophy loves long country walks - and I am now much fitter as a result!
Grooming - Bigger the poodle, bigger the cost/time to do it yourself.
Food - with small dogs I can focus on optimum nutrition without worrying about the cost.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

My own 70 years experience has shown, that the three sub breeds are quite different. Toys and standards are less excitable than minis. Standards are noticeably more intelligent than both but have a fixed personality that some people find irritating. When you live with a spoo its like another person in the home. One who demands their rights and has a place in the hierarchy. Many people see a dog as a lesser being and a spoo is really not that. Spoos live a shorter life than others but seem more healthy within that lifespan. One needs to be aware that the standard was the only poodle for centuries possibly millennia. Other breeds were bred in and by selection, first the mini and then the toy were bred. Toys have only recently become to breed true. And some breeders say they have disease free true breeding stock. Minis have bred true for a while now but need careful selection still. My advise, If you can handle a large dog that is quite difficult to train (due to it's intellect) have a spoo. If not look at other peoples dogs and interact with them using this to select a breeder. Then talk to the breeder and tell them what your expectations are. They will help with selection and advise with training.

Eric.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

And then are some spoo like my little boy. He is actually 1/4 mini and 3/4 standard but there are pure standards his size just harder to find. Cole is about 20 inches tall at the shoulder and I doubt he will get much over 30 pounds if that much he has that Standard intelligence but is slightly more excitable then then my 3 standards.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

My minipoo is not excitable and I know several people with minipoos who are not excitable. I only know one that is. I also know several spoos that are excitable and others that are not.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

*Bird Dog!*



Skylar said:


> My minipoo is not excitable and I know several people with minipoos who are not excitable. I only know one that is. I also know several spoos that are excitable and others that are not.


There are wide varieties of behavior with each of the "breeds" I have known totally mad spoos and totally calm minis. But that is not to say that this is the norm for either. I am not knocking the mini. I have had 5 of them. Two were calm dogs. I have one spoo right now and she is borderline insane, excitable. But I know three of her sisters and one of her brothers and they are all placid. I blame myself. We go hunting and fishing and she is an ultra turned on bird dog. She catches a ball 8 feet up. She runs at 30 mph. I'm a 70 odd y/o old fart.









Eric


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## rj16 (Jan 30, 2017)

This is in the realm of hypothetical for me still but here are my reasons why if I get a poodle it'll probably be a mini:
- we are already used to a small dog. 
- with two dogs, we'd have to consider vehicle size. 
- in my extremely limited experience, small dogs are very convenient. No one minds a small dog in their house. I can carry him around effortlessly. He takes up very little space- his crates, his bed, etc are all small. He eats a laughably small amount of food. Even the most expensive kibble is affordable because he eats so little. 

But I'd still make temperament my number one criteria. I've had many people tell me that Monty doesn't have a typical 'small dog' personality. I think it's his confidence that makes them say that. He doesn't let his size slow him down and to me that's super important in a smaller dog.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

When I was trying to decide on size, I went with a spoo because they are simply magical.


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## galofpink (Mar 14, 2017)

Our mutt is a small medium sized dog (~28lbs) and I love his size. When adding a puppy this year though, I wanted a "big dog" without owning a horse. The spoo was the logical conclusion for us - a non-shedding, bigger dog without being terribly heavy, lots of intelligence and trainabilty as well as being a dog committed to its people.

Many others have chimed in some very reasonable considerations 

We are a young, active, strong, country dwelling with a farm in the future couple in our late 20s. So for us concerns about having room for a spoo to roam or being able to pick her up are not an issue. We also have family members that are used to big farm dogs, so for us a bigger medium size dog fits right in and it won't be an issue for dog sitting when we go on vacation. I'm used to grooming our other dog, so that's not an added cost, just time.

Since this is our first poodle, I don't really have experience with the temperament differences. But, small dogs are for sure more readily accepted places, making going a lot easier. Even for a dog lover like myself, I'd be more than willing to take my one SIL's 26lb cocker x poo for a vacation or something but would require quite a bit deliberation over taking my other SIL's two 120lb+ shedding mutts.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Noelle is a moyan sized poodle, but not actually a moyan. Great-grandparents were spoo/mini crosses. Noelle is the third generation from that pairing. So, what I have is a standard poodle hit with a shrink ray. Noelle is 18" at the withers and weighs 20 pounds.


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## RylieJames (Feb 3, 2016)

I have standards. It all started back when I was a young kid—about ten years old. I wanted a golden retriever (Air Bud was all the craze back then). But, because my mom had asthma and allergies, she said that if we were to get a dog, it would have to be a poodle. My mom had previously owned a mini and a toy when she was in her teens and early 20s and absolutely loved them. I was adamantly opposed to getting a “prissy” dog. So, the decision to get a standard was a compromise and a way to get me a dog I could “rough-house” with. I used to take my first standard (pictured in my signature) for runs, bike rides, and rollerblading on a daily basis. A toy or mini would have tired too quickly for me. Plus, you can’t really put a harness on a toy or mini and ask them to pull you like a sled-dog while you’re on roller blades! lol ;-D

Another major consideration when deciding on the standard was that my dad is disabled. He has multiple sclerosis and often stumbles and falls. We didn’t want a small dog that could easily get under foot and cause my dad to trip. And, if something were to happen, a toy/mini is more fragile than a standard. Hence, it was pretty clear that the standard was the best dog for our situation.

Now that I’m older and on my own, I still have standards. In general, I like big dogs—they have more endurance for outdoor activities (although, I do have to acknowledge that some minis are like energizer bunnies!). Further, one thing I really love about poodles is that even though they are physically large, they are incredibly light-weight—relatively speaking. Many people who don’t know poodles assume that my large dogs must weigh the same as a lab—but nope, they only weigh 40-50 pounds.

Nevertheless, there are drawbacks to large dogs, as others have mentioned. If you are maintaining a long coat, grooming a standard is a lot of work because there is more coat to care for. But, if you shave them down, it doesn’t take that much time. For comparison, I used to shave down my neighbor’s shih tzu and my standard poodle—it really did not take that much longer to do my dog. But, if you aren’t shaving them down, line brushing and the like will take much more time on a standard. Or, if you are having a groomer work on your dog, you may want to look into the different prices for different size poodles.

Also, when going on vacation I would have to take road trips and if I wanted to take my dogs with me (can’t fly with the big guys). Granted, I could leave my dogs with a sitter—which I’ve done on occasion—but I like taking my pets with me on vacation. There are things to consider when traveling with a large dog, particularly that they take up more space in your car. More food to bring, more water. Some hotels only allow dogs under 30 pounds. Stuff like that. I’ve also traveled with just my small, 5-pound cat, which was much easier in comparison. Plus, I could easily bring her in stores with me in my purse and no one would notice, so I never had to be worried about leaving her in a hot car.

One major plus about traveling with a big dog though is protection. As a female that has traveled on her own cross-country, I have no doubt felt safer when bringing a standard along. Not that I expect my dog to defend me or something—they’re not trained for that and are far too loving of strangers—but I think that just the presence of a large dog acts as a deterrent for someone looking to do harm.

In all, I love my standards and am very glad to have them. Nevertheless, I have thought about getting a toy or a mini. At some point in the future I probably will. But, right now, my time, energy, and focus is on standards.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

For us it had to be standards. BF has always had German Shepherd dogs, so a bigger dog was the ticket. Aside from that though I had fallen in love with spoos decades ago and have always had a vision of having a black one as a companion and am now lucky enough to have two of them. I also like not having to bend way down to take the dumbbell, glove or scent articles from the dog sitting in front of me.


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## Poodlemanic (Jun 27, 2016)

I love standards. They're big and solid and calm, but so smart. It's just personal preference I think though, because if you look for a good breeder he/she can tell you very specifically what their lines are like and what individual puppies will be like. There are high and low energy poodles in every size. One thing about small dogs is they are cheaper to groom and more portable. But I wouldn't trade my two 26 inches at the shoulder princesses for anything


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

I had standards for many years and loved them dearly. My last standard died this past March - and I still miss her terribly.

I came home to find that she could not get up off her bed. I had known for a few weeks that she was failing. We had a very difficult time getting her to the car - I am 76 and my wife is 84. We finally thought to put a towel under her to lift her. It was a dreadful experience.

So now I have a mini for the simple reason that I just cannot lift a 55-65 lb dog any more. Maybe a smaller standard will come into my life, but Zoe is certainly lots of fun and easy to carry around.


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## Kelfin (Mar 31, 2017)

Thanks everyone, I appreciate all of the different perspectives. 

Can anyone answer my question about how difficult it is to find a larger/oversize mini or smaller standard? Or perhaps even a true moyen/klein size poodle? Ideally I will be looking for breeders in the Northeast of the US.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

What do you mean by a small standard? Height/weight at finish, just a general idea would help. For minis check out songbird in Connecticut. I have a friend with a lovely, but definitely oversized, mini from Songbird.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Check out Karbit Poodles - Home They're in Nevada, but they have the size you're looking for and an excellent reputation.


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## RylieJames (Feb 3, 2016)

Kelfin said:


> Thanks everyone, I appreciate all of the different perspectives.
> 
> Can anyone answer my question about how difficult it is to find a larger/oversize mini or smaller standard? Or perhaps even a true moyen/klein size poodle? Ideally I will be looking for breeders in the Northeast of the US.


In my search a couple years ago, I found that most of the "moyen/klein" poodles sold in the northeast were from not-so-reputable breeders that were also into "teacup" poodles and some "doodles." Not saying all are like that, but it might be harder to find good ones.

As lily mentioned, it depends on what you mean. My girl pictured in my signature was a smaller standard and weighed in at between 40-45 pounds (I don't remember her height). A standard that size is generally easy to find.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I had larger sized dogs all my life...never had a toy breed until I got my Chihuahuas, about 18 or 20 years ago. At that time I had my old Lab and then got a Doberman so we were all one big (and small) happy family. Before that I had GSDs, lab mix, beagle mix and then some. When my Lab and then my Doberman died, I had only the two Chihuahuas left. (that was in Idaho, not here) When I moved here I got the two toy poodle boys. I was considering a mini but the more I thought it over, the more I reflected on how much I had enjoyed my Chihuahuas...how easy to travel with, to bathe, to feed, to pick up, how cute they are. haha. So, after my final analysis, the decision was to go for a toy. Only it wasn't just one toy, it got to be two toys... in one day. :ahhhhh: 

I am sorry to be blunt but standards are not necessarily smarter than the other two sizes, nor are they or toys necessarily calmer than minis. I do not believe that, as I've met a number of poodles of all sizes. I think it's more an individual thing. They are the same breed and the standard is the same except for size. I've met and known poodles of _all_ sizes and I've seen some that are more intelligent_ seeming_, regardless of size and I've seen some rambunctious ones regardless of size. My sister had a mini who was calm and laid back and later, a standard that was more hyper by a long shot. With my own two toy poodles, Matisse is more of a busy body, though he's really, really mellowed out as he's matured...and Maurice is a sloth next to Matisse. He is also so much more subtle that if he's as smart, I wouldn't notice. He does not seem as quick on the trigger as Matisse. But he may just be holding back on me to throw me a curve ball. haha. :alberteinstein: I've met several poodles of all three sizes when I was showing Matisse. Three sizes and various temperaments with no apparent pattern within a size. 

Anyhow, I love the toys...soooooo easy. (all except for a few things, like birds of prey) That's one annoyance to have to watch out for. As far as stepping on them or what not, they learn to move out of the way and really watch out. You also get into the habit where you don't even think. You just look down before you step or sit. It's second nature for me now. 

As far as hiking. Don't even get me started. I've hiked in the wilderness of the extreme north panhandle in Idaho for years with my Chihuahuas and now, when I get a chance around here, with my toy poodles. They're very athletic and capable of a good, long hike. I wouldn't push them all day long but they can navigate brush like nobody's business and jump and scramble over things just fine and have good stamina once they're in shape. I get so tired of the misconceptions of _all _toy dogs not being able to go for a hike or not being able to do this or that or they can't jump off a couch. Good heavens! :rolffleyes:

So it's personal preference. When I get to a point where I can't lift a certain weight, I'll be glad that I have my 4 lb and 7 lb toy poodles. Now, if I can just bend over far enough. :ahhhhh: :act-up:


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

Kelfin said:


> I am also wondering what the differences are in temperament between a mini and a standard. Would a mini still make a good hiking and camping dog? Lastly, how difficult is it to find a larger mini around 25 lbs or so?


There are definitely temperament differences, although as someone else said, there is a range of temperaments in each size. If you want an old soul temperament, you *might* find it in a standard (although none in any I've owned or bred). 

Mini show breeders usually work right up against the height limit, so it is extremely common to find oversize minis. Firebrook in New Jersey has a lovely silver male mini who produces great temperaments. She also breeds standards, so she might be a good starting point for you. 

Minis make excellent hiking and camping companions (as do standards, but people might not realize how hardy minis are). I have a friend in Colorado who has hiked fourteeners with her mini.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Always had toys, and would not change. They go every where with me, people welcome them in their house. I have 3 a total of 15 pounds combined, I can pick them all up if I have to. Very easy to train, and smart, cuddly, and great if you are in sales to get new leads in business, LOL. Prior I had dobs, which I lived, but oh my the work was to much for me. Bigest toy I had was 9 pounds, and she loved to go for walks, my current 3 likes to go but get tired so we take turns going with mom


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## Dancer920 (May 16, 2016)

Size I think is such a personal preference. My reason for choosing a Standard... well, Love the fact I can see my dog in taller grasses and shouldn't loose her in a snow bank (hehehe). Before I decided to cut back on grooming clients I groomed a lot of poodles of various sizes. My favorite to do was always the standard. I live in the country so plenty of room for a large dog. I also have Border Collies for Sheep so one dog that doesn't shed was a plus. My daughters old Mini Dachshunds (her 4H dogs) still live here as she felt at their age it would be cruel to move them to an apartment (she visits them as often as she can) so that is enough of a little dog fix around here. Oh, there are a ton more reasons, but in the end.....I love big dogs. ( Don't tell the Dachshunds who are spoiled rotten) LOL


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

All poodles are wonderful. I prefer minis but if I was 20 years younger I would love a standard also no doubt. Ditto what Skylar said: My age is part of it - I couldn't carry a standard, but I have had large and small dogs, and always went back to mini poodles as #1. I can bring both my mini's in the car and many places and homes where a large dog is not welcome. I love that they are both lap dogs and cuddle with us on couch, chair or bed. I can pick them up and bathe them in the sink, and even with two, they are not going to pull me off my feet while walking. Callie is a great watchdog. We do a lot of camping, and the girls are small enough that they don't get restless inside and both can have their own bed areas. They are content with hanging around and short walks (I see many other campers having to walk their various breed big dogs 10x a day. Maybe a standard would be ok in a camper too - after all - they are such a perfect breed - all three sizes)


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## Kelfin (Mar 31, 2017)

lily cd re said:


> What do you mean by a small standard? Height/weight at finish, just a general idea would help. For minis check out songbird in Connecticut. I have a friend with a lovely, but definitely oversized, mini from Songbird.


Well, I'm not even set on getting an oversize mini/moyen or small standard. Just trying to get a general idea of what may be available in the Northeast region when it is time to decide on a breeder. As I said in my original post, I have always considered myself a "big dog" person and I've never owned a dog under 50 lbs. Browsing this forum and learning more about minis just made me start to ponder what it may be like to have a smaller dog. 

Anyway, I feel that my current boy (a lab) is a really nice size for me. He's smaller for a male lab at about 22" and 52 lbs. I imagine a spoo around his height would be lighter in weight?


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

Kelfin said:


> Anyway, I feel that my current boy (a lab) is a really nice size for me. He's smaller for a male lab at about 22" and 52 lbs. I imagine a spoo around his height would be lighter in weight?


My petite but bodied-up bitch is 22" and 42 lbs. Typical heights for standard poodle show-lines (all standard breeding--no mini, etc.) are 22-24 for bitches and 24-26 for dogs. I don't think any of her pups from her first litter are over 50 lbs.


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## Beautiful Blue (Apr 24, 2017)

Our 2 females were 21 and 21 1/2 inches at the withers, and in their prime weighed 43 and 45 well muscled lbs.

Rio at 2 years old is 24 " and a fit looking 55 lbs. By the way he has lost 2 pounds since becoming ours 2 months ago most likely due to the large yard and opportunity for exercise. 

I wanted a dog that the men in the family could enjoy in the great outdoors as much as I would love it in the house, car, and garden. We have some allergies in the family and I have always hated the mess and questionable cleanliness of having animals who shed in the house.

So 14 years ago, the first Standard Poodle - the Brown Clown who loved everyone and anyone who would say the word "ball" - came into our lives. Have never regretted it!


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