# Why does the AKC register merle poodles?



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Any person can post anything they want. That doesn't make it true. AKC does not register merle poodles since there is no way a dog with merle coloring is 100% a poodle.


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## peachypoodle (Jul 1, 2020)

Gotcha, so they are definitely lying then? Is there no way the AKC can come out and say it's not true?


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

They probably registered as a different color. At some point along the line a different breed was slipped into the blood. On purpose or accident... who knows. But a breeder doesn't have to blood test the pups to prove who the parents are when they register. Just because they are AKC registered doesn't prove they're pure poodles.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

To some extent, less so now with testing possible, AKC registrations are on the honor system. If the breeder says Jim Dandy was the sire when it was actually Old Shep, how would anyone know apart from the puppies having odd proportions? A few generations of crossing back to pure poodles and the conformation would look pretty normal again.
A show breeder gets no reward for being dishonest. A cobby puppy with poor tail set won't win no matter what its papers say. A color breeder who can't show can still benefit from having AKC papers


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

The Kennel Club or KC, in the UK has banned registering merle in non traditional merle colored breeds , that the beginning of the year.
Basically Collies, Koolies, Corgis, Australian Shepherds etc are excepted because the color is naturally occuring.


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## VanessaC (Feb 24, 2020)

I recently saw a breeder whose CKC papers said “Merle” on them and she also showed her DNA results showing 100% poodle. Is there any way to make the purebred genetic tests more accurate? From what I understand, the current ones only go about 5 generations back...


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## VanessaC (Feb 24, 2020)

To reiterate @peachypoodle ’s point, why doesn’t the Poodle Club of America disavow these poodles if they’re truly no way they could be purebred?


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

VanessaC said:


> I recently saw a breeder whose CKC papers said “Merle” on them and she also showed her DNA results showing 100% poodle. Is there any way to make the purebred genetic tests more accurate? From what I understand, the current ones only go about 5 generations back...


The difficulty is that the way they do it detects fragments of DNA. The further out the generations get, the smaller the fragments get. So as you get further out it becomes harder to detect breed with accuracy. Especially with a breed that has huge variation like poodles. I think Embark is more reliable than wisdom because they use more genetic markers. They may get more accurate in the future. But that sort of sequencing can be expensive. So they're getting it as accurate as they can with the price point people can afford right now. As prices for sequencing go down, they'll be able to accomplish more.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

CKC as in Canadian Kennel Club or Continental Kennel Club? Because the latter doesn't require DNA testing to register a dog


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

P.S. Continental Kennel Club, is not a kennel club like the AKC and the KC. Because from my understanding is that if your dogs looks like a poodle you can register it as a poodle.


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## VanessaC (Feb 24, 2020)

twyla said:


> CKC as in Canadian Kennel Club or Continental Kennel Club? Because the latter doesn't require DNA testing to register a dog


I’m pretty sure it was the Canadian Kennel Club. Can’t check since she blocked me on Instagram after I liked a question asking what colors were on her AKC papers.. 🙄


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## peachypoodle (Jul 1, 2020)

@VanessaC Yes, it was the Canadian Kennel Club (we are talking about the same breeder)


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## Cricket’s Schnauzers (Jan 13, 2021)

peachypoodle said:


> Gotcha, so they are definitely lying then? Is there no way the AKC can come out and say it's not true?


They are doing the same thing with Schnauzers!


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## JauntyJuniper (11 mo ago)

lily cd re said:


> Any person can post anything they want. That doesn't make it true. AKC does not register merle poodles since there is no way a dog with merle coloring is 100% a poodle.


While the AKC doesn't register/recognize "Merle" poodles, I do in fact have a phantom blue merle standard poodle and she has been Embark genetic breed tested and is 100% poodle. So yes, they can absolutely be 100% a Poodle.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

VanessaC said:


> I recently saw a breeder whose CKC papers said “Merle” on them and she also showed her DNA results showing 100% poodle. Is there any way to make the purebred genetic tests more accurate? From what I understand, the current ones only go about 5 generations back...


CKC - Continental Kennel Club or Canadian Kennel Club. The Canadian Kennel Club is a respected registry. The Continental Kennel Club is not respected by knowledgeable people.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

JauntyJuniper said:


> While the AKC doesn't register/recognize "Merle" poodles, I do in fact have a phantom blue merle standard poodle and she has been Embark genetic breed tested and is 100% poodle. So yes, they can absolutely be 100% a Poodle.


Embark only goes back 3-4 generations. The gene for merle in poodles is 100% identical to the merle gene found in herding breeds, showing it did not arise independently in poodles. It is a very complicated gene and would not be identical if that wasn't the source. And, unsurprisingly, the first breeder to "produce" them also bred merle Shetland sheepdogs. That was many generations ago, far further than embark will be able to show you.

They still make lovely pets and are welcome forum members (as are any others with dogs that aren't 100% poodle).


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Welcome, @JauntyJuniper. I’m going to close this thread because it’s a couple of years old. But here’s a good merle primer if you’re interested in learning more: The merle poodle by Barbara Hoopes

Would love to “meet” your girl.  Head on over to Member Introductions to say hello.


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