# Yes, another jumping thread



## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

There's a spoo puppy at my work who's been given up for adoption. He's wild and crazy and thinks jumping on you and wrapping his paws around you is the best idea ever. If you ignore him, he doesn't care. He won't stop. If you cross your arms and turn your back on him, you're still fair game. If you put him into a sit, he'll do it but won't stay and he's jumping right back on you. Every thing that's always worked for me doesn't work with him. And he doesn't tired of doing it either. He does it non-stop.

Any ideas?

Do you think maybe keeping a leash on him so you can step on it to bring him up short when he attempts to jump on you might work? People would have to be pretty fast to do that... And tireless for the amount of time they'd need to.

I hear that the no-jump harnesses are worthless.


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## 2719 (Feb 8, 2011)

You got me stumped. Sounds like you do everything that is used. 
Don't acknowledge the spoos until he calms down.
Turn away from him when he jumps up.
Don't Talk to him.

My only thought is that perhaps he is not getting enough exercise (mental and physical) to burn off all his excess excitability.

Hope someone else has an idea for you.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

I think you're probably right. He's cooped up in a run right now until he's adopted, which shouldn't take long. There's such a long list to adopt spoos. It's not often I see any for adoption.

My boss tried letting him stay up stairs but he's very rude and wouldn't leave the other dogs alone so he has to stay in his run. I think he could use a dog to put him in his place with no confusing signals whatsoever. I may bring Ginger to meet him. She never makes contact with teeth but doesn't tolerate any freshness or rude play.


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## sandooch (Jan 20, 2011)

I hope you find an answer because Gigi does this, too. Like you, I've tried the turning my back to her with my arms folded. It just seemed to get her more excited. And she has the sharpest little nails, even though they've been trimmed.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

I'm going to try the leash thing I said. I'll post my results.


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## nlrussell (Mar 13, 2011)

*Choke or prong collar?*

I'm sure I'll get in trouble for saying this, but years ago (20+ years ago) when I trained Border Collies, I used a choke collar. I held it loosely so that it looped down and slid easily on their neck, and would give a tiny jerk/correction and release at the right time when they were trying to jump, then spin and walk the other way with the "heel" command as if I didn't notice they were corrected. It would take doing that over and over and over, making sure they weren't being dragged or constantly choked by the collar. 

Another way is to hold it or step on it so that they jerk the chain or correct themselves each time they try to jump. (Always being very careful it doesn't jerk too hard and that it releases each time.) Then, gentle praise/treats/attention/love/smiles/kisses when they sit/lay calmly.

I don't think it will work (or be needed) with all dogs. My female BC was obstinate. She was a problem and did not want to do anything but take off at a dead run to chase/herd other animals. (She could open unlocked gates, climb fences, and jump.) I had to do something to keep her out of trouble, so had no choice (I felt) at the time to use something to train . I didn't want her shot for chasing livestock or killed, so I was desperate. It must have worked. She lived to be a ripe old age and died of cancer. 

On the other hand, if I put a choke or prong collar anywhere near my male, he would cower down and refuse to move. I didn't need it for him, though. He obeyed immediately without such devices. 

I'm sure there is a better, more humane way with clickers or something, but if nothing else works..? Not sure how more experienced people feel about it nowadays.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

That's essentially the same idea I wrote about with the leash. It didn't work by the way. Nothing does with this dog.


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## nlrussell (Mar 13, 2011)

*My apologies...*

I must have missed the part where you mentioned using a choke chain or prong collar. 

Silly me...obviously you wouldn't step on or yank a regular collar/leash because that would probably press dangerously on his trachea or harm his neck, while a choke chain or prong collar would dispense the pressure around his neck in a quick correction IF used correctly, of course. 

I need to keep doing more reading and less posting. :embarrassed:


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## PoodlePowerBC (Feb 25, 2011)

My 4 month old Spoo puppy does this occasionally as well, but he is by no means hyper! I started out by walking into him, now if does it, all I have to do is look at him and he sits with an innocent look on his face. Looks like I definately have to put a stop to this behaviour! Thanks


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

It happens to be kennel leads at work and yes, they're noose like so it's the same effect as a choke collar.


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## EmilyK (Mar 26, 2011)

I'm wondering if you ever figured out how to fix this problem? Our spoo is trained just fine to not jump on us, but I'm having the worst time ever on our walks because he wants to jump on every person or dog he sees! I was already onto him and making him sit and wait for people to walk by so it's just a problem if someone stops to pet him, but he scared the heck out of a couple of people when my husband was walking him because for whatever reason, he was not expecting Guinness to jump and neither did they! 

I just don't know what to do with him besides avoid the park and that stinks!! He's only 5 months old so I know he's still a pup but he's 40 pounds already and he just can't be doing this. All the training suggestions I'm finding (including the ones I've found by searching here) seem to be addressing when they jump on someone responsible for them, not for random people and dogs walking down the street.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

I would walk him in the opposite direction if he sees other people and begins to get excited. What he wants is to satiate his curiosity but by taking him in the other direction when he acts up, he's not getting what he wants. If you let him get closer to people when he behaves, he is getting what he wants for behaving. 

This should teach him, act right and you get what you want. Act badly and you don't get what you want.

It will take consistency and diligence for him to catch on.

I don't like choke collars and I don't advocate them. In all the years that I've been training, I've had nothing but bad experiences or worthless experiences with them (they are the only thing available to me at work, where I don't do much training btw, and it's stupid but I don't buy them so it's not my decision) and they're dangerous and unnecessary. They are a tool for doing half a**ed training, if you can even call it training.


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## EmilyK (Mar 26, 2011)

I don't feel comfortable using a choke collar anyway so I'm definitely looking for other techniques. I will try this but hope it also cures his sneak attacks, which is what happened when DH was walking him. Sometimes he pulls and acts excited ahead of time, in which case I have been pulling off to the side and making him sit, sometimes he just lunges at them without warning.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

Try to remember to pay really close attention to his body language when he gets excited. You'll learn to what degree his hair will stand on end (if any, because it just doesn't happen with all dogs), how his ears look, if his eyes get fixated, what his tail is doing, etc. All these hard to spot signs should help clue you in to what he plans before he does it.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would work on rewarding him for good behaviour every time you meet or pass anyone - human or dog. Teach him Wait and Watch if you have not done so already, keep cool and calm yourself, and don't get into the habit of yanking him close whenever he sees something exciting!

Patricia McConnell has some excellent posts on working with reactive dogs - dog on dog, but excitement lunging is much the same for humans. At five months this is normal puppy behaviour, but the methods should still work - Human Bond With Dogs, Behavior of Dogs and People, Dog Psychology | Patricia McConnell Blog


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

EmilyK said:


> I don't feel comfortable using a choke collar anyway so I'm definitely looking for other techniques. I will try this but hope it also cures his sneak attacks, which is what happened when DH was walking him. Sometimes he pulls and acts excited ahead of time, in which case I have been pulling off to the side and making him sit, sometimes he just lunges at them without warning.


Rather than asking for a sit/stay when he's getting excited (VERY hard for a 5-month pup to remain in a sit/stay when he's all excited), I would do what the previous poster recommened, simply turn and walk in the other direction. Say nothing. Wait until he starts to calm down, then turn around again and start to approach the exciting thing. If he gets worked up again, turn and walk the other way, and so on and so on. Eventually he will learn that the calmer he is, the more likely that you will let him approach the thing he wants to see. Yes, you will feel a bit silly walking back in forth in public  but eventually it will start to work. 

My trainer talks about this method as letting the dog make good decisions. Walking calmly toward the stranger? Good decision! Getting all excited, oops, bad decision, we're going to turn away from the interesting stranger. It really does work!


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## PoodlePowerBC (Feb 25, 2011)

The method that worked for us was to grab his feet when he jumped, hold firmly, then release and say No jumping! We invited two strangers ( to him) in at separate occasions and explained what we wanted them to do, of course he jumped, and they held his feet, released and told him no jumping. This was at around 4 to 5 months old. He is 8 months old now, and if he shows signs that he wants to jump, I firmly say "no jumping" and he doesn't


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## Geneva77 (May 20, 2011)

PoodlePowerBC said:


> The method that worked for us was to grab his feet when he jumped, hold firmly, then release and say No jumping! We invited two strangers ( to him) in at separate occasions and explained what we wanted them to do, of course he jumped, and they held his feet, released and told him no jumping. This was at around 4 to 5 months old. He is 8 months old now, and if he shows signs that he wants to jump, I firmly say "no jumping" and he doesn't


I'm going to try this and enlist some people to help! Thank you.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

You can also have people turn their back on him when he jumps so he is effectively losing all their attention when he makes the decision to jump, but I thought that what you wanted was to prevent it in the first place. 

I'm not trying to turn anything into an argument but *respectfully*, I disagree with what was suggested. If you allow him to jump up for people to grab his feet, he may see that as Yes! I'm allowed to jump up!

And if people grab his feet (and talk to him), even if it doesn't hurt him, he can always use his teeth to defend himself (yes, even if he is instigating it) or he can think that this all is a very fun game. 

Also by allowing people to interact with him when he does the undesirable behavior of jumping, he is getting people's attention and to a dog, any attention can be viewed as good attention. 

It's just like what I see often with dogs who beg at the table. They come up to the table and beg and some one will yell at them to stop begging or just say firmly, No Begging and they don't understand why this doesn't work. It doesn't work because while the dog isn't being given any food, they are getting attention for what they are doing. Their action is being validated, even with negative attention, and any attention as long as they are being noticed and validated is good enough. Just like with children, many children will act out for attention, even if the attention they are getting is getting yelled at. They crave attention and validation. You give it to them and they learn that they get a response from you when they act up.

This is just my opinion anyways and of course people can take it or leave it.


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## EmilyK (Mar 26, 2011)

Doing something that involves the other people isn't helpful for us. He's too smart! He never jumps on us because we give him a knee and turn our backs and walk away. That solved that problem quickly! It's strangers that are a problem! I'll try walking away but depending on how busy the park is, it might just be into another walker! We live in a city and have a small park nearby where everyone walks themselves and their dogs. This might be more effective early in the morning before it's super crowded and maybe we just need to avoid it for a while when it is crowded. That just stinks because he's really good otherwise so I feel like he's just not learning if we don't go to where the problem is.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

Have you tried the head halter that turns the head sideways when they pull or the harness that pulls them up when they pull? I can't remember the names. If he lunges to jump, the head halter would probably be the most effective as he won't even be able to see what he's trying to jump on.

I don't like to use these tools permanently but they are good for the short time for training purposes until the dog learns. What I mean is, they're more of a treatment than a cure.


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## EmilyK (Mar 26, 2011)

Hmm... that might be worth a try. We've got him on one of the under the arm halters right now to teach him not to pull in general when he's walking but I think he's probably about ready to graduate from it. I'll look into the head halters. Is there a brand that you've found particularly useful?


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## PoodlePowerBC (Feb 25, 2011)

msminnamouse said:


> You can also have people turn their back on him when he jumps so he is effectively losing all their attention when he makes the decision to jump, but I thought that what you wanted was to prevent it in the first place.
> 
> I'm not trying to turn anything into an argument but *respectfully*, I disagree with what was suggested. If you allow him to jump up for people to grab his feet, he may see that as Yes! I'm allowed to jump up!
> 
> ...


 Poodles are smarter than the average person. Sometimes you need to try different techniques for different dogs. This worked for us for Russell, where turning your back was an invitation to jump. Walking into and the knee up was a deterrent, yes. But again, it was a game to him  Our last Spoo was trained with the methods you use, but Russell needed a different approach. I have NEVER met a dog that was comfortable with having their feet held against their will. And as for the "no jumping" ... as I stated in my post, this has now become a command in a way. Cause he definitely knows what it means


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

> Poodles are smarter than the average person.


Um, duh! Lol. No, I totally agree with you. This breed is just in a class of all it's own. All of a sudden people are saying that Border Collies are the smartest breed (boy was I surprised the first time I heard this) but I think this can be summed up to either of three things: A. The people who say that don't actually know any standard poodles to base that ludicrous claim on, or B. They feel threatened by the intelligence of standard poodles, or C. They don't have an astute grasp on intelligence. 

What I mean by C. is, sure, a border collie can learn some pretty impressive tricks and will do them over and over and over until they drop. A standard poodle can learn the same tricks and do it a few times and then they'll usually stop. A person may look at this and say that they're dumb because they forgot how to or that they're not understanding but the standard poodle is actually outwitting the person here. They have the intelligence to weigh the situation and see that there's no merit in doing the same boring thing over and over so they'd rather pretend to not understand. 

And while I _could_ be biased because I LOVE standard poodles, I am being truthful because I work with so many dogs of all breeds and I know oodles of border collies and oodles of standard poodles to see their intelligence and to compare and contrast it first hand.

And while I do agree that things that would likely confuse another breed of dog probably won't confuse a standard poodle, I try to stick to what I view as the simplest, clear cut method that I can come up with without adding extra variables. 

Emily, it's called a Gentle Leader headcollar.


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## EmilyK (Mar 26, 2011)

I'm trying a combination of things now and it *seems* to be improving a bit. If he starts pulling towards another dog or a person, I turn and go the other way. I try to just go a few feet and then turn back and give him another chance. I'll give him a couple of chances and if he keeps pulling then we just go another direction. If he successfully passes someone and ignores them or if he acts like he might go for them but responds to "leave it" then I give him a treat. This has made him start looking at me instead of at the people as we pass by so that helps. I've also started disobeying passing etiquette by passing people so they are on my right because he walks on my left and just having me between them and him has helped a lot.

We'll keep working on it - thanks for all the advice!


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Sounds like you are right on track! Keep up the good work. Poodles are smart and figure out what works and what doesn't fairly quickly.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

That's great also about the Leave It. Distraction is an excellent technique.


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