# Rawhide?



## DonnaM

I don't feel good about it, but I do use rawhide. I make my own dog food out of concern about the additives in commercial food then I go and give rawhide which can/does contain bleaching chemicals and formalahyde, (embalming fluid) :argh: Reasons for using them: My mini likes to chew every evening, he won't accept any synthetic alternative ie nylabone/dentabone (I can't see them being chemical free anyway), he's chewing indoors and real bones are too greasy to be used on flooring. I've recently heard of elk antlers, people here say they've used them with success and they don't splinter. I'm going to try them and I'm always on the lookout for alternatives.


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## Lilah+Jasper

Donna,

Have you tried odor-free bully sticks? I still watch closely and take it away when it gets too small. Lilah can demolish a bully stick within 20 minutes though...

The antlers are popular with my poodles too. They do wear them down but it takes several weeks before I feel that they are too small to stay in the rotation.


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## DonnaM

Lilah+Jasper said:


> Donna,
> 
> Have you tried odor-free bully sticks? I still watch closely and take it away when it gets too small. Lilah can demolish a bully stick within 20 minutes though...
> 
> The antlers are popular with my poodles too. They do wear them down but it takes several weeks before I feel that they are too small to stay in the rotation.


I haven't tried Bully Sticks mainly for the reason that they go through them so fast. I've also never ordered anything online, I'm from the dark ages . The only Bullies I've seen at the store are not labeled 'odor free' and people here have warned that they stink up a neighborhood. It's good to know that the antlers last good while.


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## liljaker

buttercup123 said:


> Does anyone still give their dogs rawhide?
> If so why?


I never fed Jake rawhide, and haven't for Sunny. I prefer to stick with bully sticks (all natural).


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## liljaker

*Soup bones*

Another option which is natural and healthy --- soup bones from the butcher or meat department. My dogs love them!

Here was Sunny last night; BTW, it is one of the few things he likes more than TV!


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## apriljean80

liljaker- I do believe I've read that soup bones are not safe as they are very hard and can lead to chipped teeth. Thought I might mention that.


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## fjm

Mine are currently working on lamb shoulder bones - on a large washable blanket spread on the floor! Plenty of chewing, but they have both just sat and asked me to do the magic thing with a coffee spoon and the marrow ...

Our stand by is paddywack - beef sinew.


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## liljaker

Cooked bones are never good, raw are fine. Jake was on raw food for 11 years and I monitor when they chew on the bones. Only cooked bones are bad, splinter, etc. I give them raw.


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## Katie

Rawhides are Bad? they contain formaldehyde? WHY? WHAT ARE THEY DOING TO OUR DOGS?

Off to collect rawhides from around the house.

I do also use Kongs with cottage cheese in and frozen. i will get more KONgs so we always have one stuffed, frozen and ready.

I'm speechless. FORMALDHYDE?!!!!!!????


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## apriljean80

I understand that cooked bones are dangerous, but it was my understanding that it is best to avoid weight bearing bones such as femurs and such. This is what I've read...Myths About Raw: Are bones safe?

I believe I read some of ChocolateMillie's posts about this in the past too...she is very well versed with raw feeding. I'll see if I can find the thread.


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## apriljean80

Believe the thread was First raw meant and bones or something like that, couldn't figure out how to link it so copied and pasted. CM's response is in Blue. Again, just what I've read. I've also seen conflicting information. In general though, those bones seem VERY hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CurlyDog View Post
I just gave Raleigh his first raw meat and bones this weekend. A beef soup bone to start was pretty easy. I let him chew on it for about an hour. Giving him bits of chicken back was scary. He loved it but I am still so afraid of a bowel obstruction. He gobbled it up. I'm happy he chewed and didn't inhale, but still... it's scary even though I've never heard any first hand accounts of problems.
Personally, I won't feed beef soup bones and I don't recommend that anyone else feed them as they CAN and DO lead to broken teeth. A soup bone falls under the label of a weight bearing bone from a large mammal. These should never be fed. Think about it, do you want to feed your dog something that is harder than his own teeth? Not me!

But great choice giving him a chicken back. My only suggestion...don't feed small pieces of it (unless he is a very small dog - I'm not sure what size he is). If he is a standard, you should absolutely feed the whole chicken back as one piece otherwise it can be a choking hazard.

Don't worry, he won't get a bowel obstruction from raw chicken bones. Raw chicken bones are some of the softest bones we can feed our dogs. He will digest it no problem!


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## buttercup123

> I've recently heard of elk antlers, people here say they've used them with success and they don't splinter. I'm going to try them and I'm always on the lookout for alternatives.


Theyre really popular in my house too and they last FOREVER!



> WHY? WHAT ARE THEY DOING TO OUR DOGS?


I wasnt aware of the formaldehyde (I dont even know what that is) but I've wondered the same thing I dont know why pet stores sell it when it's sooo bad for your dogs. 
Before you throw your rawhides out put them in some water and let them soak for 24 hours and see how much they expand. Their doing the same thing in your dogs stomach often causing blockages. 

I made this thread as I was wondering if people actually have reasons for feeding rawhide or if it's just that people dont know the dangers. 

AprilJean, how are you suuposed to know the difference, I thought a raw bone was a raw bone :confused3:


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## CharismaticMillie

liljaker said:


> Another option which is natural and healthy --- soup bones from the butcher or meat department. My dogs love them!
> 
> Here was Sunny last night; BTW, it is one of the few things he likes more than TV!


Soup bones are not a good idea because they CAN and DO break teeth. It is never wise to allow your dog to chew on something harder than their own teeth. Softer bones like turkey necks, chicken backs, beef ribs, lamb ribs, pork ribs, etc. are much better options.


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## CharismaticMillie

Never ever do I give rawhide. I also do not give soup bones. My dogs chew on deer and/or elk antlers, bully sticks, raw turkey necks, raw beef, pork or lamb ribs, raw chicken quarters and legs, raw chicken backs. I will admit to having given the occasional raw knuckle bone, which is controversial as it is still considered a weight bearing bone. It is much softer than a soup bone so I do feel more comfortable doing it. I always supervise to make sure they are not chewing too vigorously and risking broken teeth.


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## apriljean80

buttercup123, I would imagine knowing where the cuts of meat come from would help you knowing if the bone was soft enough...CM, again, would know the answer better than I.


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## CharismaticMillie

buttercup123 said:


> Theyre really popular in my house too and they last FOREVER!
> 
> I wasnt aware of the formaldehyde (I dont even know what that is) but I've wondered the same thing I dont know why pet stores sell it when it's sooo bad for your dogs.
> Before you throw your rawhides out put them in some water and let them soak for 24 hours and see how much they expand. Their doing the same thing in your dogs stomach often causing blockages.
> 
> I made this thread as I was wondering if people actually have reasons for feeding rawhide or if it's just that people dont know the dangers.
> 
> AprilJean, how are you suuposed to know the difference, I thought a raw bone was a raw bone :confused3:


buttercup - I think that some people feed rawhides because they don't know the risks involved. Others might go ahead and feed them despite the risks for whatever reason. Perhaps some people feel that the benefits of chewing outweigh the risks involved with rawhide in particular. Maybe they don't know the alternatives.

Re: raw bones - the general rule is that non-weight bearing, raw bones, of an appropriate size (generally larger than your dog's head, give or take) are safe. Weight bearing bones, from large ungulate mammals, are too hard and can break teeth. Soup and marrow bones are considered weight bearing bones.


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## Katie

ChocolateMillie said:


> buttercup - I think that some people feed rawhides because they don't know the risks involved.



I buy them from the VET! I never questioned it before, after all surely the vet knows what is good for my dog?

Have now googled rawhides and am shocked. How is one ever to find all this stuff out, if the vet sells it?


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## CharismaticMillie

Katie said:


> I buy them from the VET! I never questioned it before, after all surely the vet knows what is good for my dog?
> 
> Have now googled rawhides and am shocked. How is one ever to find all this stuff out, if the vet sells it?


Well, the vet also sells Science Diet and Purina and you couldn't pay me to feed that to my dog...


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## JE-UK

I don't give my dog commercial rawhide, but I do give him air-dried pork skin chews, which are similar but healthier. Also pizzles, paddywhacks, air-dried beef jerky, and antlers. Actually, the last time he encountered commercial rawhide (at someone else's house), he turned his nose up :smile:.


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## fjm

Mine do have a few tag ends of rawhide that they stole from the neighbouring big dogs - I shall dig them out from under the sofa and bin them forthwith! I must look out for the pork rolls - is that the price each?! I'm a bit wary of expensive chews - I have two pieces of deer antler still untouched, despite soaking in chicken broth, etc, etc. I wonder how long it would take to dry pork skin in the oven ... bet it would make fabulous dripping in the process!

ETA Just found this on drying pork rind in the microwave: http://www.ehow.com/how_6946758_dehydrate-pork-skins-microwave-dogs.html Wish I'd bought some when I saw it in Morrisons yesterday, now.


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## buttercup123

Katie said:


> I buy them from the VET! I never questioned it before, after all surely the vet knows what is good for my dog?
> 
> Have now googled rawhides and am shocked. How is one ever to find all this stuff out, if the vet sells it?


Your vet went to school for medical stuff not nutrition,training, behavior issues etc. People always think their vet knows everything and so what they say MUST be right and it's not the truth at all. 

I work at a huge chain pet store, I now work in the grooming but worked cash for 8 months and whenever someone came through with a puppy and rawhide I would try to educate them. A lot of people put the item back, some people decided to still get it because their dogs always grew up eating it and what does some "kid" know (even though I'm 21 people still think I'm too young to know anything).



> Actually, the last time he encountered commercial rawhide (at someone else's house), he turned his nose up .


lol I dont think my dogs would know what to do with it!


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## JE-UK

fjm said:


> Mine do have a few tag ends of rawhide that they stole from the neighbouring big dogs - I shall dig them out from under the sofa and bin them forthwith! I must look out for the pork rolls - is that the price each?! I'm a bit wary of expensive chews - I have two pieces of deer antler still untouched, despite soaking in chicken broth, etc, etc. I wonder how long it would take to dry pork skin in the oven ... bet it would make fabulous dripping in the process!
> 
> ETA Just found this on drying pork rind in the microwave: How to Dehydrate Pork Skins in a Microwave for Dogs | eHow.com Wish I'd bought some when I saw it in Morrisons yesterday, now.


They aren't too expensive; I think that is the price for 10. And BIG ... about a foot long, so they last a while. They are pretty greasy, but I guess that is what makes them tasty.

I'm going to try the home-made version ... good find!


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## outwest

I do give natural rawhide, which isn't supposed to contain the bad chemicals. I also never buy the flavored ones, just the plain. They are the only thing the dogs just love, love, love to chew. I bought some Bully sticks and they cost a fortune, the ones I got smell to high heaven and they demolished them in an hour. I have bought giant raw cow bones for them, but they are messy and since they are raw I don't keep them around because of worry they'll go bad. 

Here are some natural ones. These cost a lot, but they are more dense and last longer than the ones you buy at PetCo. They also include ingredients (there are just dried rawhide) and explanations about the difference between these rawhides and the others. Click the 'more information' tab for all the ingredients and safety information:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=687

You can make your own rawhides, too. There are many rawhides that do not contain anything at all, they are just washed, shaped and dried. I wouldn't buy a rawhide made in China (PetCo sells those), but I do buy rawhides made in the USA. They cost more, but they last longer. 

I don't think unbleached, unflavored, no chemical rawhides are bad and I do give them to my dogs.


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## liljaker

I did find that the braided bullies which come in 5" or 10" lengths seem to be thicker and keep Sunny busier than the single..... Also, for some reason the braided ones from my local pet shop appear to be thicker bullies, too.


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## CharismaticMillie

Outwest - regardless of how natural a rawhide is they are still dangerous because they aren't digestible and can cause blockages.


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## Katie

I am going to try dehydrating pork rind. 

thank goodness for the internet!


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## outwest

CM, If your dog tends to swallow large chunks or is a fast eater, they can cause a blockage. Mine chew and chew and just get little bits off them. The whippet's jaws aren't strong enough to bite big pieces off (he is lucky to get it slobbery enough to get a piece off) and the poodle is not a gulper, just a gnawer. 

Rawhide is bad for dogs that eat fast or have strong enough jaws to bite off big chunks or chew one of those large rawhides in one sitting. They aren't harmful for many dogs. Just know your dog (and buy high quality rawhide). Never buy rawhide made outside the US. Someone told me Southamerican rawhide is good, too, but I just buy US rawhide. I also only let them chew for a half an hour and then take them away for the next time.


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## peppersb

Here's a great source for bully sticks that are better than others and cheaper.

www.bestbullysticks.com

One thing I like is that they are from free range grass-fed bulls. That means no industrial feed lots, and no hormone injections or antibiotics in the feed. There is a lot of info on the site about bully sticks, how they are made, the difference between odor-free and regular, etc.

And if you like Greenies, you can get them for about half price at:

www.doggiefood.com

I just purchased 12 boxes for $19.50 each with free shipping (retail price in pet stores is $39.95).


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## buttercup123

outwest said:


> CM, If your dog tends to swallow large chunks or is a fast eater, they can cause a blockage. Mine chew and chew and just get little bits off them. The whippet's jaws aren't strong enough to bite big pieces off (he is lucky to get it slobbery enough to get a piece off) and the poodle is not a gulper, just a gnawer.
> 
> Rawhide is bad for dogs that eat fast or have strong enough jaws to bite off big chunks or chew one of those large rawhides in one sitting. They aren't harmful for many dogs. Just know your dog (and buy high quality rawhide). Never buy rawhide made outside the US. Someone told me Southamerican rawhide is good, too, but I just buy US rawhide. I also only let them chew for a half an hour and then take them away for the next time.


It's not just the chemicals, it's the fact that rawhide expands when wet and isn't digestible.


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## outwest

I have never had an issue with giving my dogs rawhides, even before I vowed never to buy a rawhide chemically processed. I use natural, unbleached, unflavored, high quality rawhides (no chemicals). The bits my dogs swallow are the pieces they have slobbered on so much they are already expanded. Like I said, if your dog swallows big pieces don't use them or use the little skinny sticks where swallowing chunks won't hurt them. 

Everything has pros and cons. For me and my dogs, the pros of the rawhides (dogs who go mad for their rawhide time in the evenings) outweigh the possible negatives. I do take the rawhides away after a half hour and always buy single large rolls OR the rolls with attached real knots. You have to be careful because some of the cheaper ones have a knot that is stuck on the end and not really part of the bone at all! Also, some cheap rawhides are not a solid piece of rawhide, but have sharp little left over pieces stuck in the middle of the roll to add to the bulk. 

You do have to be very careful and discriminating in what rawhides you purchase, if you choose to use them.


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## CharismaticMillie

buttercup123 said:


> It's not just the chemicals, it's the fact that rawhide expands when wet and isn't digestible.


EXACTLY! Why would I give my dog something that they cannot digest? Those rawhides, EVEN if your dog does not gulp, are sticky and swell in their belly. They don't get digested. Instead, you just have to hope it all passes through. They are known for causing blockages. 

If you insist on feeding rawhide, the compressed kind is safest. Mine don't get rawhide though. I also dont really give Nylabones - I dont want my dog chewing plastic or nylon or whatever...


For me, I see no conceivable reason my dogs need rawhides when there are such better alternatives.

Just antlers, bully sticks and raw, edible bones for my dogs. Pig ears are okay but greasy and cause FARTS!


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## liljaker

Considered ordering the antelers --- do the dogs really like them as much as the bullies? I might try and see if Sunny likes them.


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## CharismaticMillie

liljaker said:


> Considered ordering the antelers --- do the dogs really like them as much as the bullies? I might try and see if Sunny likes them.


Depends on the dog. I'd say bullies are higher value.


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## outwest

ChocolateMillie said:


> Just antlers, bully sticks and raw, edible bones for my dogs. Pig ears are okay but greasy and cause FARTS!


LOL
:act-up:
The bully sticks I tried did the same thing with the smelly evenings. I know many of you like them, but I don't plan to use them again. They stunk like crazy and the dogs then smelled. I confess I have not tried the odorfree bullies, though, but how do they get the odor out? Besides, it is a little creepy thinking about the dogs eating bull penises, but that is my own issue. The dogs couldn't care less. I thought they cost too much for the chew value, too. 

My dogs love plain bones, but I don't like the mess they make. I worry more about them getting salmonella from raw bones than I do about the rawhide. I do give them raw bones, but have them chew them outside. I get them from the butcher pretty cheap. 

I haven't seen clumps of rawhide in their poop. If it was not digested you would think I would see it in the poo. Maybe because they don't bite off big hunks? Anyway, just thought people would like to know there are two thoughts on rawhide bones. My dogs haven't had a problem with them. If they didn't love them so much I would stop using them, but they looooove those things.


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## 2719

Good for you Outwest for standing up for Rawhides!

My poodles love them and it is getting harder and harder to find good quality rawhides to feed them. Everything you said about inferior quality rawhides is so true. I hate when they wrap a piece of large rawhide around smaller splintery pieces.

I, too, have tried bully sticks and although the gang loved them...I did not like the chew value at all. They were gone lickety split. My standards really like to grab onto the rawhides and chew and pull at them all evening just to garner a small piece.

My veterinarian feeds her poodles rawhides too and she also has a degree in animal nutrition.


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## outwest

Yes, it is the quality of the rawhides that is the key here. A good quality rawhide will last a long, long time. The ones I buy usually are good for up to two weeks of nightly gnawing, of course depending on the gnaw time.  

As I said: Natural, unbleached, no chemicals, made in USA only (or southamerica if necessary), unflavored, single piece wrapped tight or knotted with a real knot (not one put on like a cap on the end) with no rawhide stuffing in the middle. Also: a big one is better and requires more work to pull off a little piece. 

The major retailers tend to carry the lousy rawhides, although my local independent pet shop has just now started carrying unbleached natural ones that meet the above criteria. They cost a couple dollars more than the ones made in China (PetCo sells those- beware), but it is still a lot less than bully sticks.


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## apriljean80

Ok, showing my ignorance. All this time I had NO idea what these bully sticks everyone was talking about were. Bull PENISES?!? Hmmm. NOT what I was expecting but ok. Learn something new everyday. Still, not sure I could hand out my dog a bull penis to chew in my house. My little beagle's favorite treat way back in the old days was the horse hooves after the farrier had been to our house  Not sure if they would have harmed him or not, but he loved them.


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## tokipoke

I'm with outwest - I feed Leroy the high quality rawhides - no bleach, chemicals, hormones etc. They tend to be made in the USA too. You can even see the difference in quality when you hold a cheaper rawhide next to it. I usually give him the rawhide that's the size of a highlighter marker. It's more like a small snack then anything. It keeps him occupied while I relax. It also relieves some energy in him. I've tried cheaper rawhides but they give him diarrhea in large quantities. My friend gives her dogs the rawhides that's the size of a rolled up newspaper! That is waaaay too big for my tastes. I have to pick up the rawhides when I go to her place cause Leroy will chew ALL of them. I've given Leroy bully sticks when he was younger but he never really chewed on it. It just got smelly. I dislike the elk antlers because they smell even worse. I can't give him anything that looks brown or dyed because it will stain his teeth. I do give him some bones but he chokes on the little bits of bone he scrapes off. I am slowly transitioning to raw food (yay!) so will be giving him raw meaty bones in the future. I think rawhides every now and then doesn't hurt, and he loves it. I stay away from any pork related rawhide though, as it's too greasy and makes dogs gassy or have diarrhea.


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## outwest

The camera was handy tonight, so I took a pic of her with one she's had for around 2 weeks. This is the size when I take them away. The other picture is of the new one I gave her tonight after I threw the small one away. They do not smell or stain.

I guess I have yacked enough about rawhides now. [I wonder how many people would sit around in the evening posting and taking pictures of their dog eating a rawhide. Sometimes, I think I am bonkers. :2in1:]


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## katbrat

I gave Lexi a compressed rawhide to chew on and when she was done with it, her front feet were sticky,actually almost starchy if that makes any sence. I had to was her feet from where she was holding it. We don't have any local pet stores here, Petco and discount stores are it. Where do you buy high quality rawhides? I am all for raw, but not in the house. I had bought some bones from the local meat market for her, but asked about them one time and found out they were smoked. They sell bags of "dog bones" it's just the fact that they are smoked doesn't seem right and I haven't bought them since.


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## mom24doggies

Yeah, rawhide does that to dogs with long hair!! I have a Lhasa as well as a poodle, and I always end up washing feet and faces after they get a rawhide. If you want high quality rawhides, you can always order it online. As for raw bones, the ones at your local grocery store are good, they don't have to be labeled "dog bones" to be edible. Depending on how big your poodle is, turkey and chicken wings/drumsticks/thighs/backs/necks are good, as well as pork neckbones and beef ribs. Personally, I like either pork neck or the chicken parts...they are the cheapest.


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## outwest

mom24doggies said:


> I like either pork neck or the chicken parts...they are the cheapest.


With larger dogs chicken parts can be a problem if they swallow them whole (like mine does).


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## mom24doggies

outwest said:


> With larger dogs chicken parts can be a problem if they swallow them whole (like mine does).


 Which is why I added in this part: "Depending on how big your poodle is,..." before listing some good RMBs.  I realize that bigger dogs need bigger bones.


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## CT Girl

Someone asked how they get the odor out of bullys. They just let them dry out longer. As for antlers they are not as high value as bullys for Swizzle but he does like them for variety. They last a long, long time and don't smell. This is what makes them worth it for me even though they are expensive.


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## zyrcona

If you look on the Internet, there are loads of fun 'guts' you can mail order for your dog to chew. You can buy anything from oesphaguses and tripe and tendons to snouts and hoofs. Because they're dried rather than being cooked or chemically treated, they're more nutritious than a rawhide or a plastic toy. Zooplus is good for those in the UK; presumably there is something equivalent in America. If your local physical shop only sells bleached rawhides and rubbish, don't buy from them, and send them an email explaining why you don't buy from them and what you would like to see for sale there instead. They won't change unless the market changes.

And yes, a 'pizzle' or a 'bully stick' is a bullock's willy, and it does smell.


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## CT Girl

Excellent post Zyrcona. I am currently watching Swizzle work on a cow trachea. Not only are they cheaper than bully sticks they don't smell and are naturally high in chrondroitin. Swizzle is a toy so these are large for him. Sometimes I cut them in half but lately I just give the whole thing to him. He likes them even better than bullys. I like to mix it up though so I give him bullys, trachea, antler as well as meaty bones. I have just purchased a dry chicken foot and for some reason I can't seem to make myself give it to Swizzle. I think it is the nails on it. I will overcome my squeamishness though as I am sure Swizzle will enjoy it. Chicken feet are suppose to be very good for the joints - high in chrondroitin and connective tissue.


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