# Could someone help me interpret this please?



## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

ShelleyDickison said:


> Her papers say apricot


If you're referring to registry papers, those aren't usually referencing genetic color testing results, far more likely to be using references from the colors of the breed standard. Red doesn't actually appear in the standard (since a revision or two back) but apricot does (since a revision or several back).
Red/apricot/cream/white are a color spectrum.

_"Color: The coat is an even and solid color at the skin. 
In blues, grays, silvers, browns, cafe-au-laits, apricots and creams the coat may show varying shades of the same color. This is frequently present in the somewhat darker feathering of the ears and in the tipping of the ruff. While clear colors are definitely preferred, such natural variation in the shading of the coat is not to be considered a fault. 
Brown and cafe-au-lait Poodles have liver-colored noses, eye-rims and lips, dark toenails and dark amber eyes. 
Black, blue, gray, silver, cream and white Poodles have black noses, eye-rims and lips, black or self colored toenails and very dark eyes. 
In the apricots while the foregoing coloring is preferred, liver-colored noses, eye-rims and lips, and amber eyes are permitted but are not desirable.

Major fault: color of nose, lips and eye-rims incomplete, or of wrong color for color of dog. Parti-colored dogs shall be disqualified. The coat of a parti-colored dog is not an even solid color at the skin but is of two or more colors"

Poodle.pdf (akc.org) _

Cowpony explains:



cowpony said:


> This is a tangent to your question, but it might help you wade through the confusion of non-poodle color sites. In the dog world there are three basic colors: black, brown, and red. Every other color and pattern is a dilution or modification of one of those three basic colors. Blue and silver are lighter versions of black. Cafe au lait and silver beige are lighter versions of brown. Apricot, cream, and white are lighter versions of red. The color patterns- spots, phantom, brindle, and so forth - are modifications of one of these three basic colors.
> 
> Poodles have all three basic colors and, officially or not, a host of different pattern modifiers. Some breeds are missing one or more of the three basic colors. Golden Retrievers and Irish Setters only come in shades of red. Irish Water Spaniels only come in brown. Australian Shepherds only come in variants of black or brown...Wut?...Stop right there, Cowpony! The AKC page says Aussies can be black, blue merle, red, or red merle. So clearly Aussies can be red! Well, actually, red Aussies are genetically brown. The Aussie breed club just calls them red. Same deal with red Dobermans. A truly red dog cannot express the merle pattern found in Aussies or the tan point pattern found in Dobermans. So, beware of doing your color research on sites specializing in the genetics of one particular breed. The color terms they are using may not be the color terms poodle folks use, and the genes they are talking about may not be the genes you are talking about.


and further explains the D locus



cowpony said:


> The D Locus dilution is very rare in poodles, but it is occasionally found. Interestingly, in January 2020 a paper came out on the mechanism behind the cream/apricot/red and silver/blue/black color spread in poodles and some other breeds. I think a lot of people missed it due to the chaos of Covid occurring at the same time. Here's a link. Pigment Intensity in Dogs is Associated with a Copy Number Variant Upstream of KITLG


(9) Blue or silver? | Poodle Forum


What I'm not informed enough to do is actually explain those results but hope that offering some examples will give a start. 

I'm sure our more informed members will drop in.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

For comparison, here's my Remo's results 


















He went from 








to


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

edited


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

Rose n Poos said:


> For comparison, here's my Remo's results
> View attachment 490920
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> 
> ...


I’m curious as to what it says under the KITLG results .




The KITLG will tell if your dog has the G (grey) gene. If it is Red/Red then your dog shouldn’t fade as there are no copies, Red/Cream is one copy which is what Nova has . It means if they were not red they they would be a blue dog (depending if they are black based) and should fade slowly like a blue, Cream/Cream there are two copies of they grey/silver gene and will definitely fade very light.

This is still a linkage test but Barbara Hoops says it’s pretty accurate for mini’s and toys.


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## ShelleyDickison (12 mo ago)

Mel said:


> I’m curious as to what it says under the KITLG results .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is that result. I’ve tried doing research on the internet but man is it confusing.


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

ShelleyDickison said:


> This is that result. I’ve tried doing research on the internet but man is it confusing.


From what I’ve read people who want to breed red dogs want red/red on chr2 and chr18 and to hold red you need red/red on KITLG. So since you have red/cream on chr18 that should mean your girl is a born dark apricot but should hold her color since she doesn’t have the silver gene.

The Study on red gentics is still new and this is all a linkage test so there is always the chance that it’s wrong. It’s the most accurate test that is out for it right now though.


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

D Dilute has nothing to do with red. It has to do with blue bells and born blue (or in poodles born silver/grey color Unlike silvers who are born looking black). They say it’s pretty rare in poodles but Nova is a carrier and one of the studs I was looking is also a carrier though I did find they were related after looking at pedigrees. It’s not desirable for most breeders ( though there are a few that want it) . I don‘t want to cross to another carrier .


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

Here is Nova’s . She looked like a cream when she was born then darkened a little but her gentics say she is born a light apricot and has one copy of the fading gene. I dont know yet if that means she will go completely cream but she is still a very very light apricot at 2 1/2yrs. Since she is black based she is basically a red covered blue. Some blues fade really light and some don’t.


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## ShelleyDickison (12 mo ago)

Mel said:


> Here is Nova’s . She looked like a cream when she was born then darkened a little but her gentics say she is born a light apricot and has one copy of the fading gene. I dont know yet if that means she will go completely cream but she is still a very very light apricot at 2 1/2yrs. Since she is black based she is basically a red covered blue. Some blues fade really light and some don’t.
> 
> Right now (the last time I checked) the thought is that mfs 12 and Chr21 don’t apply to a poodles color.
> View attachment 490927


Thank You so much for your help.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Mel said:


> I’m curious as to what it says under the KITLG results .
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> 
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> ...


Remo's









And for no reason but sibling comparison, Neo's









as a reminder









55% shared DNA so full siblings per Embark

Remo's base coat
*ee*
Neo's base coat
*Eme*


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

Rose n Poos said:


> Remo's
> View attachment 490938
> 
> 
> ...



How old is Remo? It’s really interesting . Based on the results it says that Remo doesn’t carry silver so shouldn’t fade but with the cream/cream result on chr18 says your dog should be light and every additional cream effects the intensity of the shade.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

They were born 4-29-17, so almost 5y. I didn't take any pictures of the dam and sire when we met. I'm confident that the dam really is theirs, along with their little sable? brother. Another black brother was already off to his new home. The best I have is the video we took and the stills pulled from that.

The breeder was, call it questionable, which I knew going in (but to keep peace in the home...). I insisted that we meet them and the dam and sire at a minimum face to face. This is who they brought. 

LC, dam









Boca, sire plus R and N

















the three brothers









Not a full hijack,SD, but examples, still, sorry


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