# When Training Treats Backfire...



## NH10023 (Oct 16, 2014)

Hello there 

Our puppy is 9.5 weeks old and we have followed the same "potty routine" since we got her at 8 weeks. Here is our routine… We take her out after waking from a nap and within 30 minutes of eating. We help her ring the "Poochie Bell" with her paw and take her out to her "potty spot" and tell her to "go potty". As soon as she does, we say "Yes!" and give her a treat. She LOVES her treats. You are not kidding when you say poodles are extraordinarily intelligent. This little one picked up on the fact that all she has to do is squat and do a little dribble to get treats! Potty time takes FOREVER with several little "dribble squats" and sometimes she comes in and has an "accident" within a half hour (which is more of a puddle than a dribble! ARRRGHH!). Any thoughts?


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Sounds like you are doing a good job.

I love the people that say I trained my dog in 2 days and never had an accident. Honestly, i never understood that.

I say keep doing what you are doing . She is very young and i think it takes a lot of time and patience to get it, but she will.

I took her out every hr at that age, then worked our way up to two. She stayed at two hours for a very long time, much more holding in crate.

We got her on May 1st at almost nine weeks and she got the concept of going outside within a few weeks, but had minimal accidents for a few months. She was almost trained at 4 months and solid by 6 months.

I think you are doing a great job, keep at it and you will feel very accomplished in no time at all!


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## poolann (Jan 31, 2013)

I also think you're doing a good job! I'm stingy with treats so she might get one very small piece for a dribble but a jackpot of multiple small pieces for a larger pee. Dogs really don't know when you're breaking up a treat so they view the jackpot as extra special. Another option is a piece of her regular kibble for the little pees & an extra special treat for a big event


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Maybe reward every other potty with treats and just give verbal praise for some potty. Sometimes my dogs try to fake me out and squat without really peeing. I just wave them back into the yard and say try again, and they pee for real. Don't reward dribbles if you can tell that is what she is doing. Otherwise, you are telling her dribbling is what you want.

When you bring her back inside, don't let her run free for a half hour. Either tether her or keep her confined where you can watch her. Then try her again to see if she still needs to pee. 

If you see peeing inside while it is happening, yell real loud. That might stop her mid-stream so to speak. Then grab her and take outside. If she goes outside, praise her and reward her.

Your dog is certainly getting the idea of going outside. You just need to fine tune it by withholding rewards for dribbling and preventing her from going inside by being extra attententive. If you can't watch her, then she needs to be confined to a small area.

She is very young. It is going to take a while to housetrain her. Don't expect her to be "safe" unwatched in the house for months to come even if she is doing very well at time.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

Hans did this exact thing when he was a puppy. We stopped treating his fakeouts and little dribbles. If he did that, we'd kind of run around and get him excited, since exciting play seemed to make him really have to go. Then we rewarded only when he actually went for real. If he peed a little dribble, then went back inside without emptying his bladder, we just watched him really closely. You could even keep your puppy on a leash, if that makes it easier to keep tabs on her. If we caught him peeing inside, we said "outside" firmly, scooped him up and carried him out. He only had maybe 3 or 4 accidents before he figured it out (and honestly, some of those were after a play session when I think he just couldn't get to the bells fast enough). The phase of trying to fake us out or just pee a little to get more treats only lasted a short time.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I personally never used food to reward pottying. I just used high and happy praise (potty party). If you want to restart this process a bit, I would either do something along the lines of what poolann suggested and/or take treats out of the picture entirely and teach a potty command. We use "do one" and "do two" for the two functions. When you take the pup to the potty spot just start saying your "command" repeating it with calm but assertive tones until they start to go then raise your voice (happy, happier, happiest) as pup is going. If you think the puppy has really emptied then make a bog woohoo out of it. Hooray you did a very good "do one!" They catch on very quickly to the meaning of the command. Make sure you pick something you won't say by accident at an inappropriate time.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Well, I do admit that pad training is a bit different, but yup I am one of those people whose puppy has not had an accident since her first week home 
The first few weeks I gave 100 percent reinforcement (treat) for using the pad, after a few days she did start with the fake pees, which I reinforced for a couple of days then began ignoring. After she had not had an accident of a few weeks, I very slowly began to taper off on the treats. Now at 8 months old she get a treat for pad use maybe once or twice a day, and I do not plan to ever stop completely - why risk her backsliding - why not keep her hoping that the next time might be the time that she gets the treat
.
She has also learned to potty outside, which I am thrilled about because it will make it so much easier to take her away from home for long periods of time (my other girls always wait until we get home) and she gets a jackpot for going outside.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Maybe consider softening your "yes" and delaying it until she has finished? Could be what's praise in your mind is an interrupter to her. And many dogs have to piddle more than once before they're done, so that's not unusual .

She is an infant now and does not yet have the presence of mind nor muscle control to catch herself. So just keep going, and consider softening things and delaying the praise.

You and she will do great .


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## NH10023 (Oct 16, 2014)

Thanks so much for your encouragement and thoughtful advice, everyone!

*Streetcar*… I considered the timing of the, "Yes!", and hoped waiting until she stood up might do the trick, but nope! LOL She still squats, dribbles, and then looks up at me with those puppies eyes as if to say, "Okay, Momma, where's the YES!? Bring on the treat already!" LOL I am awe of the intelligence this early in! I think we may in for trouble!


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

NH10023 said:


> Thanks so much for your encouragement and thoughtful advice, everyone!
> 
> *Streetcar*… I considered the timing of the, "Yes!", and hoped waiting until she stood up might do the trick, but nope! LOL She still squats, dribbles, and then looks up at me with those puppies eyes as if to say, "Okay, Momma, where's the YES!? Bring on the treat already!" LOL I am awe of the intelligence this early in! I think we may in for trouble!


now this is the time when we should not anthropomorphize. pretend you don't understand those begging eyes. one of my friends would just tell her dog "that's not good enough" and wait. eventually her dog learned the token drop of piddle was not going to produce treats. :smile:


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