# Summary of My Experience: Looking for a Female Red/Apricot Toy/Mini! Still Looking!



## For Want of Poodle

$3000 to $6000 is honestly usually not a great breeder, if that reassures you. Spoons from great breeders are typically $1500-2500,and often way more than that from "for profit" breeders. Unfortunately a lot of great breeders have waitlists. 

IHave you tried this great list from Rose n Poos? 








🐩 Breeders Listed by Location 🐩 Plus Additional Resources 🐩


GEOGRAPHICAL BREEDERS LIST AND ADDITIONAL RESOURCES PLEASE READ THIS FIRST What this list is NOT: This list is not an endorsement of any breeder by Poodle Forum This list is not a list to just go buy from without doing more investigation This list is not comprehensive What this list IS: This...




www.poodleforum.com


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## twyla

Toys here on the east coast from a good breeders are $2500, thrre are wait list probably won't see puppy until the fall the soonest.


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## Rose n Poos

Hi and Welcome!


fborsha3 said:


> I don't want a show quality pet. All I want is a happy healthy red/apricot toy poodle.


Along with the information in Breeder List and the additional resources, here's an excellent essay on why you might think differently about that statement after you read thru. Breeders who show also happen to be the most likely to do the proper health testing and breed to make sure your pet is as healthy and well bred as any show dog.

*"I Don’t Want A Show dog; I Just Want A Pet"
by Joanna Kimball on July 13, 2010*

This is one of the most pervasive sentiments that puppy buyers, especially families, express when they're looking for a dog. What they really mean, of course, is that they don't want a show BREEDER – don't want to pay the high price they think show breeders charge, don't want to go through the often-invasive interview process, and think that they're getting a better deal or a real bargain because they can get a Lab for $300 or a Shepherd for $150.

I want you to change your mind. I want you to not only realize the benefits of buying a show-bred dog, I want you to INSIST on a show-bred dog. And I want you to realize that the cheap dog is really the one that's the rip-off. And then I want you to go be obnoxious and, when your workmate says she's getting a puppy because her neighbor, who raises them, will give her one for free, or when your brother-in-law announces that they're buying a goldendoodle for the kids, I want you to launch yourself into their solar plexus and steal their wallets and their car keys.

Here's why:

If I ask you why you want a Maltese, or a Lab, or a Leonberger, or a Cardigan, I would bet you're not going to talk about how much you like their color. You're going to tell me things about personality, ability (to perform a specific task), relationships with other animals or humans, size, coat, temperament, and so on. You'll describe playing ball, or how affectionate you've heard that they are, or how well they get along with kids.

The things you will be looking for aren't the things that describe just "dog"; they'll be the things that make this particular breed unique and unlike other breeds.

That's where people have made the right initial decision – they've taken the time and made the effort to understand that there are differences between breeds and that they should get one that at least comes close to matching their picture of what they want a dog to be.

Their next step, tragically, is that they go out and find a dog of that breed for as little money and with as much ease as possible.

You need to realize that when you do this, you're going to the used car dealership, WATCHING them pry the "Audi" plate off a new car, observing them as they use Bondo to stick it on a '98 Corolla, and then writing them a check and feeling smug that you got an Audi for so little.

It is no bargain.

Those things that distinguish the breed you want from the generic world of "dog" are only there because somebody worked really hard to get them there. And as soon as that work ceases, the dog, no matter how purebred, begins to revert to the generic. That doesn't mean you won't get a good dog – the magic and the blessing of dogs is that they are so hard to mess up, in their good souls and minds, that even the most hideously bred one can still be a great dog – but it will not be a good Shepherd, or good Puli, or a good Cardigan. You will not get the specialized abilities, tendencies, or talents of the breed.

If you don't NEED those special abilities or the predictability of a particular breed, you should not be buying a dog at all. You should go rescue one. That way you're saving a life and not putting money in pockets where it does not belong.

If you want a purebred and you know that a rescue is not going to fit the bill, the absolute WORST thing you can do is assume that a name equals anything. They really are nothing more than name plates on cars. What matters is whether the engineering and design and service department back up the name plate, so you have some expectation that you're walking away with more than a label.

Keeping a group of dogs looking and acting like their breed is hard, HARD work. If you do not get the impression that the breeder you're considering is working that hard, is that dedicated to the breed, is struggling to produce dogs that are more than a breed name, you are getting no bargain; you are only getting ripped off."


Ask yourself who's more likely to invest the time and money into breeding the healthiest, best tempered, best looking poodles? This doesn't mean a breeder who doesn't compete with their dogs can't produce wonderful dogs too. In a way, the breeders investment in proper breed testing, competing, socializing puppies, all these and more are like insurance for the new family. They're not absolute guarantees, but they can sure be a benefit.


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## twyla

Care to guess which is from show dog lines and the one that is not.
Guess which one is super healthy and which has medical issues.
And yes both belong to me.


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## fborsha3

For Want of Poodle said:


> $3000 to $6000 is honestly usually not a great breeder, if that reassures you. Spoons from great breeders are typically $1500-2500,and often way more than that from "for profit" breeders. Unfortunately a lot of great breeders have waitlists.
> 
> IHave you tried this great list from Rose n Poos?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 🐩 Breeders Listed by Location 🐩 Plus Additional Resources 🐩
> 
> 
> GEOGRAPHICAL BREEDERS LIST AND ADDITIONAL RESOURCES PLEASE READ THIS FIRST What this list is NOT: This list is not an endorsement of any breeder by Poodle Forum This list is not a list to just go buy from without doing more investigation This list is not comprehensive What this list IS: This...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.poodleforum.com


No, I haven't! I ll check that out! Thank you!


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## twyla

I will suggest you check of Rodell's toy poodles that's where I got my white boy from they have gorgeous toy poodles


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## fborsha3

For Want of Poodle said:


> $3000 to $6000 is honestly usually not a great breeder, if that reassures you. Spoons from great breeders are typically $1500-2500,and often way more than that from "for profit" breeders. Unfortunately a lot of great breeders have waitlists.
> 
> IHave you tried this great list from Rose n Poos?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 🐩 Breeders Listed by Location 🐩 Plus Additional Resources 🐩
> 
> 
> GEOGRAPHICAL BREEDERS LIST AND ADDITIONAL RESOURCES PLEASE READ THIS FIRST What this list is NOT: This list is not an endorsement of any breeder by Poodle Forum This list is not a list to just go buy from without doing more investigation This list is not comprehensive What this list IS: This...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.poodleforum.com





Rose n Poos said:


> Hi and Welcome!
> 
> 
> Along with the information in Breeder List and the additional resources, here's an excellent essay on why you might think differently about that statement after you read thru. Breeders who show also happen to be the most likely to do the proper health testing and breed to make sure your pet is as healthy and well bred as any show dog.
> 
> "I don’t want a show dog; I just want a pet.
> by Joanna Kimball on July 13, 2010
> 
> This is one of the most pervasive sentiments that puppy buyers, especially families, express when they're looking for a dog. What they really mean, of course, is that they don't want a show BREEDER – don't want to pay the high price they think show breeders charge, don't want to go through the often-invasive interview process, and think that they're getting a better deal or a real bargain because they can get a Lab for $300 or a Shepherd for $150.
> 
> I want you to change your mind. I want you to not only realize the benefits of buying a show-bred dog, I want you to INSIST on a show-bred dog. And I want you to realize that the cheap dog is really the one that's the rip-off. And then I want you to go be obnoxious and, when your workmate says she's getting a puppy because her neighbor, who raises them, will give her one for free, or when your brother-in-law announces that they're buying a goldendoodle for the kids, I want you to launch yourself into their solar plexus and steal their wallets and their car keys.
> 
> Here's why:
> 
> If I ask you why you want a Maltese, or a Lab, or a Leonberger, or a Cardigan, I would bet you're not going to talk about how much you like their color. You're going to tell me things about personality, ability (to perform a specific task), relationships with other animals or humans, size, coat, temperament, and so on. You'll describe playing ball, or how affectionate you've heard that they are, or how well they get along with kids.
> 
> The things you will be looking for aren't the things that describe just "dog"; they'll be the things that make this particular breed unique and unlike other breeds.
> 
> That's where people have made the right initial decision – they've taken the time and made the effort to understand that there are differences between breeds and that they should get one that at least comes close to matching their picture of what they want a dog to be.
> 
> Their next step, tragically, is that they go out and find a dog of that breed for as little money and with as much ease as possible.
> 
> You need to realize that when you do this, you're going to the used car dealership, WATCHING them pry the "Audi" plate off a new car, observing them as they use Bondo to stick it on a '98 Corolla, and then writing them a check and feeling smug that you got an Audi for so little.
> 
> It is no bargain.
> 
> Those things that distinguish the breed you want from the generic world of "dog" are only there because somebody worked really hard to get them there. And as soon as that work ceases, the dog, no matter how purebred, begins to revert to the generic. That doesn't mean you won't get a good dog – the magic and the blessing of dogs is that they are so hard to mess up, in their good souls and minds, that even the most hideously bred one can still be a great dog – but it will not be a good Shepherd, or good Puli, or a good Cardigan. You will not get the specialized abilities, tendencies, or talents of the breed.
> 
> If you don't NEED those special abilities or the predictability of a particular breed, you should not be buying a dog at all. You should go rescue one. That way you're saving a life and not putting money in pockets where it does not belong.
> 
> If you want a purebred and you know that a rescue is not going to fit the bill, the absolute WORST thing you can do is assume that a name equals anything. They really are nothing more than name plates on cars. What matters is whether the engineering and design and service department back up the name plate, so you have some expectation that you're walking away with more than a label.
> 
> Keeping a group of dogs looking and acting like their breed is hard, HARD work. If you do not get the impression that the breeder you're considering is working that hard, is that dedicated to the breed, is struggling to produce dogs that are more than a breed name, you are getting no bargain; you are only getting ripped off."
> 
> 
> Ask yourself who's more likely to invest the time and money into breeding the healthiest, best tempered, best looking poodles? This doesn't mean a breeder who doesn't compete with their dogs can't produce wonderful dogs too. In a way, the breeders investment in proper breed testing, competing, socializing puppies, all these and more are like insurance for the new family. They're not absolute guarantees, but they can sure be a benefit.



You got me totally wrong! I clearly mentioned I want a puppy from a breeder who covers all necessary health checks. Also mentioned, I want a happy and healthy puppy. By this I meant I just don't want a random puppy who is not from a breeder without any health check. 
The sentence which you quote and replied the response on was - I don't want a show quality - yes I still don't. I've talked to quite a few breeders who charge a lot higher for show quality and less for the ones who will be pets but has been through all the necessary health checks and tests, genetically clear and healthy. These breeders won't sust sell a unhealthy puppy to anyone as they really care about their pups. Thanks!


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## Rose n Poos

Hi, sorry for any misunderstandings. Your experiences seem to be different from what I've learned. 

I agree with FWoP and Twyla that prices of $3000-$6000 are simply well above typical for a pup of _any_ quality being sold as a pet. I don't think I've seen higher than $2500 ever, for those that list pricing on their sites. I'm_ not_ asking but without knowing some of the breeders you've contacted and seeing their websites, it's not possible to gauge what kind of breeder you've run across. 

It's not unusual that a breeder would charge more for a show quality pup _if _they're selling with full registration and therefore breeding rights and the ability to register any offspring if both sire and dam are registered, rather than limited registration. To show, a pup must remain intact which means breeding can happen with or without the breeder being involved, in spite of contracts. They're generally very protective of breeding rights because their kennel reputation is on the line. 

But, most generally since there aren't that many show quality pups born, the breeders tend to keep them for themselves or co-own with another breeder or handler known to them. It's my understanding that selling a show quality pup to someone without a proven history in showing is definitely not the norm. I'm surprised that you've run across quite a few breeders who had show quality pups available. 

Show quality pups are sometimes held back for their potential but if they go oversize or something develops that would reduce their chances in competing then they're no longer show quality. That pup would be sold but as a pet and with limited registration and generally at the same price as their other pups. 

If any of the breeders asking those higher than typical prices were on the Breeder List, would you please let me know? I'm compiling it based on provable health testing and looked thru every site pretty carefully but I'd want to be able to give a heads up to anyone else using the list.


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## PeggyTheParti

Just popping in to say I'm so glad you're doing your homework.  It's so tempting to jump at the puppy that's available NOW instead of taking the time to find the breeder that's right for us. 

Keep us posted on your search! Your efforts are going to pay off. I'm sure of it.


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## fborsha3

fborsha3 said:


> quality





Rose n Poos said:


> Hi, sorry for any misunderstandings. Your experiences seem to be different from what I've learned.
> 
> I agree with FWoP and Twyla that prices of $3000-$6000 are simply well above typical for a pup of _any_ quality being sold as a pet. I don't think I've seen higher than $2500 ever, for those that list pricing on their sites. I'm_ not_ asking but without knowing some of the breeders you've contacted and seeing their websites, it's not possible to gauge what kind of breeder you've run across.
> 
> It's not unusual that a breeder would charge more for a show quality pup _if _they're selling with full registration and therefore breeding rights and the ability to register any offspring if both sire and dam are registered, rather than limited registration. To show, a pup must remain intact which means breeding can happen with or without the breeder being involved, in spite of contracts. They're generally very protective of breeding rights because their kennel reputation is on the line.
> 
> But, most generally since there aren't that many show quality pups born, the breeders tend to keep them for themselves or co-own with another breeder or handler known to them. It's my understanding that selling a show quality pup to someone without a proven history in showing is definitely not the norm. I'm surprised that you've run across quite a few breeders who had show quality pups available.
> 
> Show quality pups are sometimes held back for their potential but if they go oversize or something develops that would reduce their chances in competing then they're no longer show quality. That pup would be sold but as a pet and with limited registration and generally at the same price as their other pups.
> 
> If any of the breeders asking those higher than typical prices were on the Breeder List, would you please let me know? I'm compiling it based on provable health testing and looked thru every site pretty carefully but I'd want to be able to give a heads up to anyone else using the list.


Rose n Poos, my response to your question ended up being my search history summary which I'd like to keep for myself. So I addressed your question with extra info. This will be helpful for me mostly I guess. Thank you! 

Yes, by quite a few, I really meant quite a few. And they asked me do I want show quality as I kept on asking about all the necessary health checks. Then I was told these checks are done in all of their puppies, but show quality puppies' price would be much higher considering many other factors. It's been close to 45 days I've been searching constantly to find the perfect puppy. I've lost count of how many people I called. If I could, I'd have loved to give you the names of the people. I started calling people state by state. And I know there's nothing for me there so it's not possible for me to remember the names. Also, not a single breeder on AKC Marketplace responded to my query, even the ones where I did not mention red/apricot and it was mentioned on their profile that puppies are available or will be available soon. On AKC Marketplace, I contacted breeders state by state in all states of New England, New York, Maryland, Pennsylvania. Trust me, I did not receive even one single reply. Also, most of the breeders never bother to respond as they must be getting this calls all day long given the high demand. And the reputable breeders never receive calls. I called so many breeders already a few times but no response! Those who receive either informs me that they have around 40/50 on waitlist or they are accepting applications for Spring 2021 or whole year 2021. I'm on most probably all the Poodle related Facebook Pages looking for good breeders when people post healthy looking poodles. Surprisingly, other than the scammers, there are many helpful people out there who are willing to help as much as they can. Glad to realize that. 
I earnestly requested in my emails and voicemails that I am seriously looking for one, I'd really appreciate if they please give me a call back. But to no avail! And surprisingly it happened the most when I contacted the reputable breeders. They don't even respond to Facebook messages. Fun fact, I was looking for a yorkie before i decided on a poodle. Reputable breeders of Yorkies at least responded, but poodle breeders - None! I know they are busy but when someone contacts everywhere and there is no response, then I have no idea how to reach them. Also, they have no idea it's the same person knocking them everywhere as I am not mentioning my name again and again in all of the platforms. I think the high demand during the pandemic made the reputable breeders stop receiving calls/emails as they have huge wait list already. Anyway, this have been my search for my dream dog history. 
About the expensive ones, I found three in the New York and New England region. I think they were Crawmers, Rodell on the higher end and most probably Tiny Companion could be the $6500 one. Again, I just called and checked off the list and noted high price. I know I was told $6000-$6500 so seeing my "high price" note I'm guessing these could be the three. BUT, If anyone is reading this, please make sure you call and ask the price yourself. I've called so many, so I cannot guarantee 100% accuracy at this point as it's been a while I am searching. 

BTW, I know it's my criteria for the poodle made it so difficult to find one - red/apricot female toy/mini. And they ask for higher for these colors. I have had other colors of dogs before. This is my dream dog I've been waiting for, so this time I am determined to do all it takes to get a happy healthy dream dog. 
I have contacted a couple poodle clubs who gave me very important information on what to look for in a breeders. My next plan is to contact the referral people state by state on these poodle club. 

P.S. Everything I mentioned above are the summery of the search for a perfect healthy toy/mini poodle for over a month. I tried my level best to mention everything (i.e. 40/50 waitlist, the price range) as exact as possible. I am going to create a post copy pasting this just in case it helps anyone out there looking for a poodle.


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## fborsha3

Summery of my search for a poodle is actually for myself as it ll act as a puppy search history for me. I hope it gives insights to people looking for puppies. However, everyone should do their own research and should not rely on what I mentioned here. 

I started looking for toy/mini breeders on AKC. However, not a single breeder on AKC Marketplace responded to my query, even the ones where I did not mention red/apricot and it was mentioned on their profile that puppies are available or will be available soon. On AKC Marketplace, I contacted breeders state by state in all states of New England, New York, Maryland, Pennsylvania. Trust me, I did not receive even one single reply. Also, most of the breeders never bother to respond as they must be getting this calls all day long given the high demand. And the reputable breeders never receive calls. I called so many breeders already for a few times but no response! Those who receive either informs me that they have around 40/50 on wait list or they are accepting applications for Spring 2021 or whole year 2021. I'm on most probably all the Poodle related Facebook Pages looking for good breeders when people post healthy looking poodles. Surprisingly, other than the scammers, there are many helpful people out there who are willing to help as much as they can. Glad to realize that. 
When I contacted the breeders, I earnestly requested in my emails and voicemails that I am seriously looking for one, I'd really appreciate if they please give me a call back. But to no avail! They don't even respond to Facebook messages. Fun fact, I was looking for a yorkie before I decided on a poodle. Reputable breeders of Yorkies at least responded, but poodle breeders - None! I know they are busy but when someone contacts everywhere and there is no response, then I have no idea how to reach them. Also, they have no idea it's the same person knocking them everywhere as I am not mentioning my name again and again in all of the platforms. I think the high demand during the pandemic made the reputable breeders stop receiving calls/emails as they have huge wait list already. I don't blame them but I need to know a way how to get hold of them. Anyway, this have been my search history for my dream dog. 
About the price, most reputable breeders' puppies are expensive given the health quality and other factors. I found 3 breeders whose range was between $6000-$6500 which I can't afford. Others start from $2500. Given my color preference, it becomes more expensive, a lot higher than $2500.
BTW, I know it's my criteria for the poodle that made it so difficult to find one - red/apricot female toy/mini. And they ask for higher for these colors. I have had other colors of dogs before. This is my dream dog I've been waiting for, so this time I am determined to do all it takes to get a happy healthy dream dog. 
I have contacted a couple poodle clubs who gave me very useful information on what to look for in breeders. My next plan is to contact the referral people state by state on these poodle clubs. 

BTW, this poodle search has been specifically difficult given the criteria of my dream dog (Read Title). 

P.S. Everything I mentioned above are the summery of the search for a perfect healthy toy/mini poodle for over a month. I tried my level best to mention everything (i.e. 40/50 waitlist, the price range) as exact as possible. 

PLEASE don't post any rude comments. I started searching for a puppy from scratch. I've been learning along the way. Any useful tips will be greatly appreciated. 
ALSO, please don't ask me to get another breed if I can't afford a healthy poodle. Heard that already! No! I want a healthy poodle from a good breeder and I can't spend that much.


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## Whoiscoconut

What area are you in?


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## Dechi

I’m sorry it’s so hard to find your dog. The pandemic has created a frenzy for dogs and it has me very worried that so many of them are going to be abandoned when people who haven’t thought it out carefully realize having a dog is not just fairies and unicorns (I’m not saying it’s your case).

I’m from Canada but some of the prices you’re mentioning are just ridiculous (6000$). Around here, the only ones who sell dogs at that price are « greeders », people who only want to make money and don’t care about health or the breed. They will sell you more for certain colors too. On the other hand, good ethical breeders only have one price for their puppies sold as pets, no matter the color. A poodle from an ethical show breeder in Canada will cost around 1800$-2000$. I suspect it’s around the same in the States.

I don’t know if it’s something you would consider, but it’s always much easier to find an older puppy or young adult that a puppy. 

Look around on the forum for ideas of ethical breeders who do health testing and try to better the breed.


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## Rose n Poos

Thank you for this detailed information. I'll read it again more carefully later today but two things stand out to me,

The first is


fborsha3 said:


> And they asked me do I want show quality as I kept on asking about all the necessary health checks. Then I was told these checks are done in all of their puppies,


I really have to wonder about a breeder asking you if you want show quality just because you mention health testimg. Health testing is a given for quality breeders. That just seems more marketing ploy than conscientious breeder to me.

Health "checks" on puppies are helpful but this is not the proper health testing to be discussed. If the breeder starts immediately talking about "checks" on puppies when you ask about health testing, I'd be concerned. That testing is done on the breeding parents. A health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much behind it to back it up without the parents having been tested and cleared for the known breed issues. Again, not knowing or asking which breeders, but puppy "health checks" without the genetic and other testing proven done on the parents is usually a sign of a not great breeder.

The second is


fborsha3 said:


> BTW, I know it's my criteria for the poodle made it so difficult to find one - red/apricot female toy/mini. And they ask for higher for these colors.


A conscientious, quality breeder does NOT charge different prices for colors. Doing that is another marketing ploy to increase their profit. A conscientious, quality breeder is not looking to make a profit when they breed.
*__*

Here's my personal chacklist for a breeder:

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed. They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better. They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own. They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract. They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them. They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety.

They will have as many questions for me as I do for them. They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.


Breeding Program 
! to maintain, improve, strengthen the breed
by breeding to standard, for health and genetic diversity,
and will prove their dogs meet these standards by showing or competing
or by breeding from titled parents. It's not the title, but what it shows
! focus is on quality, never quantity
! they do not cross breed

Breeding Parents
! registry information available
AKC Registry Lookup
Dog Search
! not too old or young for breeding
! not overbred
see Asking questions from a breeder
and Frequency of Breeding a Bitch
! genetic health testing done appropriate to breed and variety
! other health testing such as eyes, hips
! results of testing on own website, OFA site or testing lab
see Health Related Publications - Versatility In Poodles, Inc.
and OFA Lookup https://www.ofa.org/look-up-a-dog

Living Conditions
! in home with family
! breeder allows, even encourages home visits

Puppies
! routine and urgent vet care, immunizations, dewormings
! socialization
! first groomings
! registry papers
! they will not require spay/neuter before physical maturity
! health "guarantee" generally favors the breeder, not the buyer.
health guarantee is no replacement for health testing of dam and sire.
beginning housetraining is a bonus
temperament testing is helpful

Advertising
! individual website to detail history of breeder, goals for their program
! information on dams, sires, puppies
! no trend pricing for color, gender or size,
! no marketing gimmick terms like "teacup" "royal"

! Anything not found on the website should be provided by breeder before buying

If a breeder wants me to believe that they believe in their dogs, they won't stop the investment when it comes time to find the new families. If they want to cut costs by using free advertising sites like craigslist or listing on retail marketplaces like puppyspot or puppyfind, or other classified ad sites such as newspapers, I wonder what else they've cut costs on.

Contact a few breeders to introduce yourself. Even if they don't have or don't offer what you're looking for, it can be a close knit community. They may know where to refer you.
*_*

and this thread to give additional and corroborating insight on finding a quality breeder:
Buying A Puppy Safely








Buying a puppy safely - the basics


We have many discussions on here as to what constitutes a really good breeder, and rightly set our standards very high. In an ideal world, everyone would be prepared to research carefully, to build a relationship with an excellent breeder, and be ready to wait as long as it took for the right...




www.poodleforum.com





----------------

Here's the resources to check on health testing of the breeding parents
AKC Registry Lookup - by kennel name or dog name or registry number


Dog Search



Health Testing Criteria - Parents Are Tested Not Puppies - Additional Testing





Health Related Publications - Versatility In Poodles, Inc.


Versatility In Poodles, Inc.




vipoodle.org





Toy Minimum Testing Criteria
prcd Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA) DNA testing from an approved laboratory
Eye clearance by the Companion Animal Eye Registry (CAER)
Patellar Luxation OFA evaluation

Here is where the results are registered by the breeder
OFA Lookup - by kennel name or dog name or registry number - Orthopedic Foundation for Animals








Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO


Our dog search tool allows you to search parents and relatives of your potential new puppy by dog name, breed, disease type and more. Look up a dog today!




www.ofa.org





To find specifically what you're looking for, it seems you'll need to expand your search area.

If you haven't already looked thru the Breeder List I linked before, I'd go thru all the toy/mini breeders on these multi lists to see who's breeding the color you want and contact them regardless of location. This is not to necessarily get a pup from them but they may know of breeders nearer to you that have what you're looking for:

Multi State









Litters From Health Tested Poodles | Facebook


ANSWER ALL 3 QUESTIONS TO JOIN!!! PLEASE note we do *not* allow advertisement for litters that do not meet and *PASS* CHIC minimum testing. Of course the more testing the better. *Things not...




www.facebook.com




Breeders here all do appropriate health testing.

Poodlesonline .com


"Poodle Breeders" Standard Poodles, Miniature Poodles, Toy Poodles Breeders Directory!



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Poodle Breeders - Standard, Miniature and Toy Poodle puppies


Standard, Miniature and Toy poodle puppies and adults for sale. Featuring health conscious poodle breeders in the USA and Canada. Many beautiful photos and information about available puppies.




www.poodlebreeders.com





Poodle Variety Breeders


Poodle Variety's Breeders Directory


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Good Dog .com





Poodle puppies for sale from trusted breeders | Good Dog


Find a Poodle puppy from reputable breeders near you and nationwide. Screened for quality. Transportation available. Visit us now to find your dog.




www.gooddog.com









Poodle (Non-standard) puppies for sale from trusted breeders | Good Dog


Find a Poodle (Non-standard) puppy from reputable breeders near you and nationwide. Screened for quality. Transportation available. Visit us now to find your dog.




www.gooddog.com




pending

United Poodle Association








Members


Visit the post for more.




unitedpoodleassociation.org




pending health ck and update - suggested by PF member

"I have contacted a couple poodle clubs who gave me very important information on what to look for in a breeders. My next plan is to contact the referral people state by state on these poodle club."

Very good idea. Note that a wait list is very typical if you want a puppy from a conscientious, quality breeder doing the right things to ensure the best puppies and the best for the breed. These breeders may only produce 1-2 litters a year and mini and toy litters are quite small. Anyone who pretty much always has puppies available, with a few good larger scale breeder exceptions, is not likely to be investing much in their dogs since that cuts into their profit.


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## fborsha3

Whoiscoconut said:


> What area are you in?


Boston! My search areas were all over East Coast. But the higher price were asked in New England, New York region mostly. In Pennsylvania, above $3000-$3500


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## fborsha3

I can't thank you enough for all the information you've provided. 

Answer to One,
Yes, they did ask me that when I asked about the tests you mentioned above about the Toy breed's 3 health test (I got to know about those 3 test from one of the poodle club people who gave me a list of things to look for in a toy breeder). And yes I know for sure no responsible breeder would ask me that when I ask about these tests. 

Two,
I read it in so many places that no reputable/responsible breeder would ask for higher price for the red/apricot or unique colors. However, trust me, I have found none so far who charge the same for all colors

Regarding your breeder list, 
yes I have bean through each and every one in New England, NY, PA, MD, VA. They either don't have toy/mini or they have but white and black mostly. 

As you've suggested, I would have to expand my search! At times I think I should give up during this high demand phase. But that ll only postpone my getting a puppy as everyone seems to be filling out applications, so I might end up not getting a puppy even in 2021! Also, when I think all these days of research will go in vain, I can't accept I ll just give it up now. 

I ll check out the links you've provided above. Thank you! I really appreciate it.


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## fborsha3

Dechi said:


> I’m sorry it’s so hard to find your dog. The pandemic has created a frenzy for dogs and it has me very worried that so many of them are going to be abandoned when people who haven’t thought it out carefully realize having a dog is not just fairies and unicorns (I’m not saying it’s your case).
> 
> I’m from Canada but some of the prices you’re mentioning are just ridiculous (6000$). Around here, the only ones who sell dogs at that price are « greeders », people who only want to make money and don’t care about health or the breed. They will sell you more for certain colors too. On the other hand, good ethical breeders only have one price for their puppies sold as pets, no matter the color. A poodle from an ethical show breeder in Canada will cost around 1800$-2000$. I suspect it’s around the same in the States.
> 
> I don’t know if it’s something you would consider, but it’s always much easier to find an older puppy or young adult that a puppy.
> 
> Look around on the forum for ideas of ethical breeders who do health testing and try to better the breed.


Yes, I heard that from many people on social media about the good old price range. I wish the price range goes down soon. Otherwise, I can't even fill out applications because in that case I am applying knowing the high price!
BTW, do you mean CAD $1800-$2000?


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## Rose n Poos

Expand into Canada to increase your choices, What I have there is listed after the US listings. I don't know what the importing status is right now but worth looking at, I think.


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## fborsha3

Rose n Poos said:


> Expand into Canada to increase your choices, What I have there is listed after the US listings. I don't know what the importing status is right now but worth looking at, I think.


Thank you! Will do! Have to wait for this whole Covid-19 situation to get over.


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## Dechi

fborsha3 said:


> Otherwise, I can't even fill out applications because in that case I am applying knowing the high price!
> BTW, do you mean CAD $1800-$2000?


Yes, I meant CAD but you would pay around 2000$-2500$ USD I believe. Poodles are a little more expensive in the States from what I’ve read from other members.


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## twyla

Here's one for you try Barbara Hoopes of Silverbirch poodles in Hamilton NY, no she doesn't have red but could direct you to someone who does


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## Vita

Rod Connors in Connecticut shows and breeds well-bred, beautiful toy poodles and sometimes has reds or apricots. He always returns calls too. 203-927-3862.









Rodell Toy Poodles


Rodell Toy Poodles, Wallingford, Connecticut. 1,578 likes · 255 talking about this · 8 were here. we have spent years working to breed some of the finest in toy poodles




www.facebook.com




For photos:








Rodell Toy Poodles


Rodell Toy Poodles, Wallingford, Connecticut. 1,578 likes · 255 talking about this · 8 were here. we have spent years working to breed some of the finest in toy poodles




www.facebook.com


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## fborsha3

twyla said:


> Here's one for you try Barbara Hoopes of Silverbirch poodles in Hamilton NY, no she doesn't have red but could direct you to someone who does


Thank you so much! I ll give her a call tomorrow.


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## Rose n Poos

I took a quick look at Tiny Companions. Their website is a good example of many of the things that would rule them out as a breeder I'd ever consider for myself. In contrast, Crawmers website is a complete surprise. There is no mention at all of health testing and random checks of dogs names are not showing up on OFA but the dogs look good enough that I'd at least contact them to ask questions. I wouldn't contact Tiny Companions at all. Again, this is just my preferences.

1/ The Home page is photos of puppies. This is designed to feed puppy fever. "Look at the cute puppies", not at what isn't on the website
2/ Paypal link right up top.
3/ You select a puppy, contact them to make sure the pup is available, then pay? No interview? No visit?
4/ They ship all over the US...pups of those sizes? at that young age? as cargo? Please look at the Hypoglycemia thread, puppies of that size can die very quickly from it. Toy poodles should be with mother til at least 10 wks old and the super small ones should stay even longer
5/ There is no mention of genetic health testing of the sires and dams. There is no mention of their kennel on OFA
6/ They don't provide AKC registry numbers for any of their poodles - needed to verify health testing and registry
7/ They don't provide AKC registry names for any of their poodles - needed to verify health testing and registry
8/ There is no mention of their goals for their breeding program. What are they doing to ensure genetically healthy pups are born and to improve the breed as a whole?
9/ Full registration rights at no additional charge? Just pay Tiny Companions then start breeding as soon as that 3lb little girl can? They don't ask why any purchaser wants full registration?

10/ Dam and Sires page
a/ DNA certified by AKC is not health testing. It's used only to identify parentage of the dog
b/ they are not all listed as AKC registered, although noted as such on Home page.
c/ they are referring to "tiny toys", "teacup toys", "micro toys". There is no such size in the poodle variety. if poodles are deliberately being bred down in size, health issues grow larger
d/ I think I counted 26 active breeding females.
e/ I think I counted 15 active sires

11/ Available Puppies
a/ I think I counted 6 litters born from 3-5-20 to 4-10-20

12/ More
a/ health guarantee favors breeder.
"Minor, breed related, treatable or correctable conditions (such as Patellar Luxation, Legg-Calvé-Perthes Disease, Cryptorchidism, PRA-Prcd, etc), or any condition that may go away or is considered to be a condition which a puppy will likely outgrow, are not covered."
Genetic testing covers 3 of the named conditions
"Buyer has researched and is knowledgeable of the non life threatening problems that a dog may have, and agrees that these are not covered under this health guarantee"
Blindness can be a result of a PRA-Prcd condition. It may not be life threatening of itself, but it'll sure change your lives.
"We DO NOT GIVE REFUNDS. We will give a replacement puppy for life threatening genetic diseases. If a health issue arises within the first TWENTY FOUR MONTHS..."
Could you give a puppy back after 3 months? 6? 12?
"If you are unwilling to release the puppy and their papers into our possession, we will not be responsible for any medical expenses incurred"
"we will replace a puppy of equal value when one becomes available. No problems other than life threatening congenital defects are covered in this agreement."

I don't feel reassured by this guarantee.


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## cvpickens

I know nothing about red toy poodle breeders, but here's a short list of red/apricot miniature poodle breeders who (1) perform all recommended health testing on their sires/dams, and (2) achieve conformation and other working titles on their dogs. All seem highly-regarded in the poodle world! Since you're located in the NE USA, list is restricted to this region. Breeder responsiveness and puppy prices unknown. From what I recall, there are excellent Canadian red/apricot mini breeders as well, and some may be closer to you geographically.

Timea Bodi (TN) Danube Poodles
Joannie Clas (MD) Clas Haus Poodles
Mary Anne DiRocco (DE) DiMarnique Poodles
Audrey Kelly (OH) Bonheur Poodlea
AnnMarie Saunier (SC) Shiann Poodles
Debbie Schnulle (NC) EagleHill-South Poodles

Best of Luck!
Chrisley


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## BellasMomZ

$6000 sounds like a ridiculous price even for a well-bred puppy from Health tested lines. 
Definitely would not purchase from such a person even if I could afford it.
I have no recommendations but wishing you the best of luck with your search. 
Before I finally found out first puppy I emailed and called several breeders with no response, finally the one that answered turned out to be the right one and now we have two wonderful puppies from her ( 1 year and one is 6 months ). I say this to say don’t lose hope, the search is sometimes very difficult and disappointing but I hope in the end it works out great for you too!


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## fborsha3

cvpickens said:


> I know nothing about red toy poodle breeders, but here's a short list of red/apricot miniature poodle breeders who (1) perform all recommended health testing on their sires/dams, and (2) achieve conformation and other working titles on their dogs. All seem highly-regarded in the poodle world! Since you're located in the NE USA, list is restricted to this region. Breeder responsiveness and puppy prices unknown. From what I recall, there are excellent Canadian red/apricot mini breeders as well, and some may be closer to you geographically.
> 
> Timea Bodi (TN) Danube Poodles
> Joannie Clas (MD) Clas Haus Poodles
> Mary Anne DiRocco (DE) DiMarnique Poodles
> Audrey Kelly (OH) Bonheur Poodlea
> AnnMarie Saunier (SC) Shiann Poodles
> Debbie Schnulle (NC) EagleHill-South Poodles
> 
> Best of Luck!
> Chrisley


Thanks so very much Chrisley! I really appreciate it! I've contacted four of them and none of them have litters until next year. And one of them is natural reared breeder who actually had litters coming. However, I preferred to go with the usual route. I ll contact the rest. Also, I ll check in Canada's side too! I didn't consider that option before as I am not sure about the border crossing formalities. I ll definitely take that into consideration. Please let me know if you know any breeder in the Eastern part of Canada. If you don't know that's fine! I ll do my research. Thank you!


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## fborsha3

BellasMomZ said:


> $6000 sounds like a ridiculous price even for a well-bred puppy from Health tested lines.
> Definitely would not purchase from such a person even if I could afford it.
> I have no recommendations but wishing you the best of luck with your search.
> Before I finally found out first puppy I emailed and called several breeders with no response, finally the one that answered turned out to be the right one and now we have two wonderful puppies from her ( 1 year and one is 6 months ). I say this to say don’t lose hope, the search is sometimes very difficult and disappointing but I hope in the end it works out great for you too!


Thanks for your response! Could you please share where did you get your puppies from? Thank you!


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## BellasMomZ

fborsha3 said:


> Thanks for your response! Could you please share where did you get your puppies from? Thank you!


Both my girls are minipoodles from Anna-Ash Poodles in Florida. To my knowledge she doesn’t breed red poodles though. Mostly black, brown, partis or phantoms, occasionally cream comes along.

Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/AnnaAshPoodles/?tsid=0.49690505431482523&source=result

Email: [email protected]

Website: Anna-Ash Poodles


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## Vita

I have *merged* this thread by Fborsha, which was in Poodle Talk, with her thread "Red/Apricot Toy Poodle Breeder in East Coast", which is in the Poodle Breeder Directory subforum. 

The reason is both threads ask the same question and cover the same topic. Responses from members provide a nice wealth of suggestions for her and anyone else in the future seeking the names of breeders of red toy or mini poodles in one cohesive thread rather than spread out in the forum. 

Thank you,
Vita, Super Moderator


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## fborsha3

BellasMomZ said:


> Both my girls are minipoodles from Anna-Ash Poodles in Florida. To my knowledge she doesn’t breed red poodles though. Mostly black, brown, partis or phantoms, occasionally cream comes along.
> 
> Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/AnnaAshPoodles/?tsid=0.49690505431482523&source=result
> 
> Email: [email protected]
> 
> Website: Anna-Ash Poodles


Thank you! Really appreciate it!


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## fborsha3

Dechi said:


> Yes, I meant CAD but you would pay around 2000$-2500$ USD I believe. Poodles are a little more expensive in the States from what I’ve read from other members.


Could you please let me know names of red/apricot toy/mini breeders in Quebec/Ontario if you know any? Thank you!


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## Rose n Poos

fborsha3 said:


> Could you please let me know names of red/apricot toy/mini breeders in Quebec/Ontario if you know any? Thank you!


Go to the updated Breeder List, scroll down to International> Canada. There are some breeders listed but look specifically for the Poodle Club of Canada links. You'll need to go to the individual sites to see what colors they focus on.









🐩 Breeders Listed by Location 🐩 Plus Additional Resources 🐩


Our breeder is terrific. Her standards are beautiful and have such wonderful temperaments: Michelle Birchard, New Destiny Flourtown, PA Cleo's sire is Sam, who belongs to a member of the forum here.




www.poodleforum.com


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## Whoiscoconut

In the midwest they're around $1600-2000. There's a few that run a little lower and some try to run the higher of $3000 and up. Here most go by size, the smaller the more they charge. There's a few breeders I know who strictly run pet only or other options. They have registered parents and do all the health testing but don't sell to any showing or breeding families. Sometimes they require a spay neuter contract but often times their prices are more reasonable. You really have to hunt for them and then do your homework.


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## fborsha3

Rose n Poos said:


> Go to the updated Breeder List, scroll down to International> Canada. There are some breeders listed but look specifically for the Poodle Club of Canada links. You'll need to go to the individual sites to see what colors they focus on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 🐩 Breeders Listed by Location 🐩 Plus Additional Resources 🐩
> 
> 
> Our breeder is terrific. Her standards are beautiful and have such wonderful temperaments: Michelle Birchard, New Destiny Flourtown, PA Cleo's sire is Sam, who belongs to a member of the forum here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.poodleforum.com


Thank you! I've checked out most of them today and none of them have available, will be available in 2021. Thought of sharing this in case it helps someone out there. Read somewhere in the Poodle Forum about Poodle Puddle in Canada for red puppies. She ll have puppies born this month, contacted her but she prefers to keep her puppies in Canada. Told her I am from USA.


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## Raindrops

I understand your frustration, but remember that red toys & minis are _extremely_ trendy currently and we're also in a time of general puppy shortage. If I was looking for a red puppy and was determined I wanted that color, I would have to settle for waiting however long it takes. I would expect to wait at least 6 months, possibly up to a year. I know it seems like a long time, but when you want something particular you're putting your color preferences as top priority and timeframe second. I get wanting a particular color, and I think that getting from a really great breeder that health tests is super important. But it will probably take some time.


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## Margo Tanenbaum

I'm in a similar situation--I'm not even particular about colors but all the breeders seem to have long waiting lists. One told me she had over 40 people on her list! I'm getting used to the idea of waiting until the end of the year....


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## poodlelove01

Are you are any waiting lists? I would suggest that you find a reputable breeder, talk to them and get on the list. We are in a strange time with a high demand for puppies. Eventually you will have that dream puppy and it will be worth the wait. We will be here to wait with you. If you decide to widen your color preferences, you may find a puppy sooner but will likely still be on a list. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Margo Tanenbaum

I would suggest trying to get on a bunch of waiting lists--I am on about 4 waiting lists, but all from breeders who don't take deposits until the puppies are born. Personally I think that's a fair way of doing it although I understand the breeders that want the commitment of an early deposit. I got on multiple lists since it's impossible to know how many people will drop off, especially if they haven't paid a deposit.


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## fborsha3

Whoiscoconut said:


> In the midwest they're around $1600-2000. There's a few that run a little lower and some try to run the higher of $3000 and up. Here most go by size, the smaller the more they charge. There's a few breeders I know who strictly run pet only or other options. They have registered parents and do all the health testing but don't sell to any showing or breeding families. Sometimes they require a spay neuter contract but often times their prices are more reasonable. You really have to hunt for them and then do your homework.


Could you please give me the names of the breeders you know? 
I know what you mean. I found a few like them while searching. Thanks!


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## fborsha3

Raindrops said:


> I understand your frustration, but remember that red toys & minis are _extremely_ trendy currently and we're also in a time of general puppy shortage. If I was looking for a red puppy and was determined I wanted that color, I would have to settle for waiting however long it takes. I would expect to wait at least 6 months, possibly up to a year. I know it seems like a long time, but when you want something particular you're putting your color preferences as top priority and timeframe second. I get wanting a particular color, and I think that getting from a really great breeder that health tests is super important. But it will probably take some time.


Yes, I totally get you! Everyday I realize it even more! Thanks!


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## fborsha3

Margo Tanenbaum said:


> I'm in a similar situation--I'm not even particular about colors but all the breeders seem to have long waiting lists. One told me she had over 40 people on her list! I'm getting used to the idea of waiting until the end of the year....


Exactly! Everyone has a huge list!


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## fborsha3

poodlelove01 said:


> Are you are any waiting lists? I would suggest that you find a reputable breeder, talk to them and get on the list. We are in a strange time with a high demand for puppies. Eventually you will have that dream puppy and it will be worth the wait. We will be here to wait with you. If you decide to widen your color preferences, you may find a puppy sooner but will likely still be on a list.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for your support. I tried to be in touch with a few breeders, most of them don't call back given the high volume of calls they must be getting. Some mention on their website no puppies are available or I might need to wait until next year Spring or Fall. So I just filled out their applications they have online. Just in case! Thanks for your advice,BTW. I ll go ahead and keep doing that.


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## Vita

fborsha3 said:


> Thanks so very much Chrisley! I really appreciate it! I've contacted four of them and none of them have litters until next year. *And one of them is natural reared breeder who actually had litters coming.* However, I preferred to go with the usual route...


Fborsha, which breeder from Chrisley's list is expecting a litter now? And what do you mean by preferring to go "the usual route"?


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## fborsha3

Vita said:


> Fborsha, which breeder from Chrisley's list is expecting a litter now? And what do you mean by preferring to go "the usual route"?


Timea Bodi. not now, around September. She is a natural reared breeder. By going the usual route I meant I don't want to do natural raw food and go with good quality commercial dog food instead. .


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## Vita

fborsha3 said:


> Timea Bodi. not now, around September. She is a natural reared breeder. By going the usual route I meant I don't want to do natural raw food and go with good quality commercial dog food instead. .


Thanks for sharing this about *Timea Bodi of Danube Poodles* in Tennessee. From time to time we get members who prefer breeders that feed raw along with the DNA health testing, which she describes on her Welcome/About page.

So if anyone is looking for a red mini puppy this year in that area, check with her.


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## Raindrops

Vita said:


> Thanks for sharing this about *Timea Bodi of Danube Poodles* in Tennessee. From time to time we get members who prefer breeders that feed raw along with the DNA health testing, which she describes on her Welcome/About page.
> 
> So if anyone is looking for a red mini puppy this year in that area, check with her.


Yes she was excellent when I got my dog Misha from her. To clarify, when I got Misha, food and vet care was not expressly specified in his contract the way some breeders will (of course that doesn't mean the contract hasn't been updated since). She does raw feed all her dogs and strongly recommends to keep them on a similar diet. Prior to getting Misha, she did make sure I purchased a premade raw that is similar to what the pups are weaned on because it's what he was used to. She does appreciate puppy buyers who are interested in maintaining diet and health care she uses. It wasn't a problem for me since I was happy to maintain the diet.


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## fborsha3

Rose n Poos said:


> I took a quick look at Tiny Companions. Their website is a good example of many of the things that would rule them out as a breeder I'd ever consider for myself. In contrast, Crawmers website is a complete surprise. There is no mention at all of health testing and random checks of dogs names are not showing up on OFA but the dogs look good enough that I'd at least contact them to ask questions. I wouldn't contact Tiny Companions at all. Again, this is just my preferences.
> 
> 1/ The Home page is photos of puppies. This is designed to feed puppy fever. "Look at the cute puppies", not at what isn't on the website
> 2/ Paypal link right up top.
> 3/ You select a puppy, contact them to make sure the pup is available, then pay? No interview? No visit?
> 4/ They ship all over the US...pups of those sizes? at that young age? as cargo? Please look at the Hypoglycemia thread, puppies of that size can die very quickly from it. Toy poodles should be with mother til at least 10 wks old and the super small ones should stay even longer
> 5/ There is no mention of genetic health testing of the sires and dams. There is no mention of their kennel on OFA
> 6/ They don't provide AKC registry numbers for any of their poodles - needed to verify health testing and registry
> 7/ They don't provide AKC registry names for any of their poodles - needed to verify health testing and registry
> 8/ There is no mention of their goals for their breeding program. What are they doing to ensure genetically healthy pups are born and to improve the breed as a whole?
> 9/ Full registration rights at no additional charge? Just pay Tiny Companions then start breeding as soon as that 3lb little girl can? They don't ask why any purchaser wants full registration?
> 
> 10/ Dam and Sires page
> a/ DNA certified by AKC is not health testing. It's used only to identify parentage of the dog
> b/ they are not all listed as AKC registered, although noted as such on Home page.
> c/ they are referring to "tiny toys", "teacup toys", "micro toys". There is no such size in the poodle variety. if poodles are deliberately being bred down in size, health issues grow larger
> d/ I think I counted 26 active breeding females.
> e/ I think I counted 15 active sires
> 
> 11/ Available Puppies
> a/ I think I counted 6 litters born from 3-5-20 to 4-10-20
> 
> 12/ More
> a/ health guarantee favors breeder.
> "Minor, breed related, treatable or correctable conditions (such as Patellar Luxation, Legg-Calvé-Perthes Disease, Cryptorchidism, PRA-Prcd, etc), or any condition that may go away or is considered to be a condition which a puppy will likely outgrow, are not covered."
> Genetic testing covers 3 of the named conditions
> "Buyer has researched and is knowledgeable of the non life threatening problems that a dog may have, and agrees that these are not covered under this health guarantee"
> Blindness can be a result of a PRA-Prcd condition. It may not be life threatening of itself, but it'll sure change your lives.
> "We DO NOT GIVE REFUNDS. We will give a replacement puppy for life threatening genetic diseases. If a health issue arises within the first TWENTY FOUR MONTHS..."
> Could you give a puppy back after 3 months? 6? 12?
> "If you are unwilling to release the puppy and their papers into our possession, we will not be responsible for any medical expenses incurred"
> "we will replace a puppy of equal value when one becomes available. No problems other than life threatening congenital defects are covered in this agreement."
> 
> I don't feel reassured by this guarantee.



I really appreciate you took the time to go over it. Thank you!


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## Margo Tanenbaum

Are you willing to consider a red standard? I decided to consider standards as well as minis because of the scarcity of puppies right now. I did hear of a breeder in Wyoming who has red standards right now. Here is her contact info: 

Minarets Poodles in Wyoming, RED June 12 born SIX, M and F, Esther Underfolker 541 580 3785 Email: [email protected]
Maybe some of her females are on the smaller side.


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## fborsha3

Margo Tanenbaum said:


> Are you willing to consider a red standard? I decided to consider standards as well as minis because of the scarcity of puppies right now. I did hear of a breeder in Wyoming who has red standards right now. Here is her contact info:
> 
> Minarets Poodles in Wyoming, RED June 12 born SIX, M and F, Esther Underfolker 541 580 3785 Email: [email protected]
> Maybe some of her females are on the smaller side.


Thanks so much Margo, really appreciate it. I live in Massachusetts. So that's really far. Also, I rent an apartment, standard wouldn't be the right choice for me now. I travel quite frequently, that's another reason for wanting a smaller dog, a toy, if not available, then may be a miniature. 
Thanks again!


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## MMM18

@fborsha3 Wanted to check in with you to see if you've had any luck yet in your search? I just started my search this month and it's seeming impossible to find a toy or miniature poodle (especially red). I'm also starting to consider black but can't even find that at the moment. I've called numerous breeders and most don't even respond and those that do don't have any available litters and tell me to call back in 2021. And with the pandemic, it's limited my ability to travel far, so I'm looking mostly in surrounding states (I'm based in NY). Anyway, was hoping to maybe hear a success story from you since I see these posts were from 4 months ago.


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## jjglenn09

Rose n Poos said:


> Hi and Welcome!
> Lol,
> I don’t think I could’ve said this anymore better. It’s so irritating when people have no idea how amazing of a breed the toy poodles are. I have both female and male, and some people charge 4,500 without papers, and if someone wants to pay 500 for a dog, yeah go stick with a lab! Lmao. You get what you pay for. I had the free and they’re the most annoying dogs!
> 
> Along with the information in Breeder List and the additional resources, here's an excellent essay on why you might think differently about that statement after you read thru. Breeders who show also happen to be the most likely to do the proper health testing and breed to make sure your pet is as healthy and well bred as any show dog.
> 
> *"I Don’t Want A Show dog; I Just Want A Pet"
> by Joanna Kimball on July 13, 2010*
> 
> This is one of the most pervasive sentiments that puppy buyers, especially families, express when they're looking for a dog. What they really mean, of course, is that they don't want a show BREEDER – don't want to pay the high price they think show breeders charge, don't want to go through the often-invasive interview process, and think that they're getting a better deal or a real bargain because they can get a Lab for $300 or a Shepherd for $150.
> 
> I want you to change your mind. I want you to not only realize the benefits of buying a show-bred dog, I want you to INSIST on a show-bred dog. And I want you to realize that the cheap dog is really the one that's the rip-off. And then I want you to go be obnoxious and, when your workmate says she's getting a puppy because her neighbor, who raises them, will give her one for free, or when your brother-in-law announces that they're buying a goldendoodle for the kids, I want you to launch yourself into their solar plexus and steal their wallets and their car keys.
> 
> Here's why:
> 
> If I ask you why you want a Maltese, or a Lab, or a Leonberger, or a Cardigan, I would bet you're not going to talk about how much you like their color. You're going to tell me things about personality, ability (to perform a specific task), relationships with other animals or humans, size, coat, temperament, and so on. You'll describe playing ball, or how affectionate you've heard that they are, or how well they get along with kids.
> 
> The things you will be looking for aren't the things that describe just "dog"; they'll be the things that make this particular breed unique and unlike other breeds.
> 
> That's where people have made the right initial decision – they've taken the time and made the effort to understand that there are differences between breeds and that they should get one that at least comes close to matching their picture of what they want a dog to be.
> 
> Their next step, tragically, is that they go out and find a dog of that breed for as little money and with as much ease as possible.
> 
> You need to realize that when you do this, you're going to the used car dealership, WATCHING them pry the "Audi" plate off a new car, observing them as they use Bondo to stick it on a '98 Corolla, and then writing them a check and feeling smug that you got an Audi for so little.
> 
> It is no bargain.
> 
> Those things that distinguish the breed you want from the generic world of "dog" are only there because somebody worked really hard to get them there. And as soon as that work ceases, the dog, no matter how purebred, begins to revert to the generic. That doesn't mean you won't get a good dog – the magic and the blessing of dogs is that they are so hard to mess up, in their good souls and minds, that even the most hideously bred one can still be a great dog – but it will not be a good Shepherd, or good Puli, or a good Cardigan. You will not get the specialized abilities, tendencies, or talents of the breed.
> 
> If you don't NEED those special abilities or the predictability of a particular breed, you should not be buying a dog at all. You should go rescue one. That way you're saving a life and not putting money in pockets where it does not belong.
> 
> If you want a purebred and you know that a rescue is not going to fit the bill, the absolute WORST thing you can do is assume that a name equals anything. They really are nothing more than name plates on cars. What matters is whether the engineering and design and service department back up the name plate, so you have some expectation that you're walking away with more than a label.
> 
> Keeping a group of dogs looking and acting like their breed is hard, HARD work. If you do not get the impression that the breeder you're considering is working that hard, is that dedicated to the breed, is struggling to produce dogs that are more than a breed name, you are getting no bargain; you are only getting ripped off."
> 
> 
> Ask yourself who's more likely to invest the time and money into breeding the healthiest, best tempered, best looking poodles? This doesn't mean a breeder who doesn't compete with their dogs can't produce wonderful dogs too. In a way, the breeders investment in proper breed testing, competing, socializing puppies, all these and more are like insurance for the new family. They're not absolute guarantees, but they can sure be a benefit.


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## Barbmroth

BellasMomZ said:


> $6000 sounds like a ridiculous price even for a well-bred puppy from Health tested lines.
> Definitely would not purchase from such a person even if I could afford it.
> I have no recommendations but wishing you the best of luck with your search.
> Before I finally found out first puppy I emailed and called several breeders with no response, finally the one that answered turned out to be the right one and now we have two wonderful puppies from her ( 1 year and one is 6 months ). I say this to say don’t lose hope, the search is sometimes very difficult and disappointing but I hope in the end it works out great for you too!


What breeder did youuse?


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## Barbmroth

Rose n Poos said:


> I took a quick look at Tiny Companions. Their website is a good example of many of the things that would rule them out as a breeder I'd ever consider for myself. In contrast, Crawmers website is a complete surprise. There is no mention at all of health testing and random checks of dogs names are not showing up on OFA but the dogs look good enough that I'd at least contact them to ask questions. I wouldn't contact Tiny Companions at all. Again, this is just my preferences.
> 
> 1/ The Home page is photos of puppies. This is designed to feed puppy fever. "Look at the cute puppies", not at what isn't on the website
> 2/ Paypal link right up top.
> 3/ You select a puppy, contact them to make sure the pup is available, then pay? No interview? No visit?
> 4/ They ship all over the US...pups of those sizes? at that young age? as cargo? Please look at the Hypoglycemia thread, puppies of that size can die very quickly from it. Toy poodles should be with mother til at least 10 wks old and the super small ones should stay even longer
> 5/ There is no mention of genetic health testing of the sires and dams. There is no mention of their kennel on OFA
> 6/ They don't provide AKC registry numbers for any of their poodles - needed to verify health testing and registry
> 7/ They don't provide AKC registry names for any of their poodles - needed to verify health testing and registry
> 8/ There is no mention of their goals for their breeding program. What are they doing to ensure genetically healthy pups are born and to improve the breed as a whole?
> 9/ Full registration rights at no additional charge? Just pay Tiny Companions then start breeding as soon as that 3lb little girl can? They don't ask why any purchaser wants full registration?
> 
> 10/ Dam and Sires page
> a/ DNA certified by AKC is not health testing. It's used only to identify parentage of the dog
> b/ they are not all listed as AKC registered, although noted as such on Home page.
> c/ they are referring to "tiny toys", "teacup toys", "micro toys". There is no such size in the poodle variety. if poodles are deliberately being bred down in size, health issues grow larger
> d/ I think I counted 26 active breeding females.
> e/ I think I counted 15 active sires
> 
> 11/ Available Puppies
> a/ I think I counted 6 litters born from 3-5-20 to 4-10-20
> 
> 12/ More
> a/ health guarantee favors breeder.
> "Minor, breed related, treatable or correctable conditions (such as Patellar Luxation, Legg-Calvé-Perthes Disease, Cryptorchidism, PRA-Prcd, etc), or any condition that may go away or is considered to be a condition which a puppy will likely outgrow, are not covered."
> Genetic testing covers 3 of the named conditions
> "Buyer has researched and is knowledgeable of the non life threatening problems that a dog may have, and agrees that these are not covered under this health guarantee"
> Blindness can be a result of a PRA-Prcd condition. It may not be life threatening of itself, but it'll sure change your lives.
> "We DO NOT GIVE REFUNDS. We will give a replacement puppy for life threatening genetic diseases. If a health issue arises within the first TWENTY FOUR MONTHS..."
> Could you give a puppy back after 3 months? 6? 12?
> "If you are unwilling to release the puppy and their papers into our possession, we will not be responsible for any medical expenses incurred"
> "we will replace a puppy of equal value when one becomes available. No problems other than life threatening congenital defects are covered in this agreement."
> 
> I don't feel reassured by this guarantee.


Hi. Very interesting. I spoke with the owners at Tiny Companions before reading this. They answered all my questions and welcomed me to visit them. Did you actually work with them or only view their site? Yes, they are expensive and have a lot of dogs, but I really enjoyed talking with them. Does anyone else have experience or information on Tiny Companions that can be shared?


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## Skylar

Oh dear. I Googled Tiny Companions and saw this. https://m.facebook.com/ExposingTonyasTinyCompanions/

You can do a lot better in choosing a puppy that you hope will be healthy and live for many years with you. You deserve a well bred dog. You also should not support people who are cruel to their breeding stock. If you need help finding a puppy you can start a new thread and let people know what you want and where you live or what states or provinces you would travel to pick up a puppy. 

From their website “EXPECTING SEVERAL LITTERS IN MAY 2021”. Wow that’s a puppy mill. No one can deal with multiple litters and raise them humanely and properly.


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## PeggyTheParti

Barbmroth said:


> Hi. Very interesting. I spoke with the owners at Tiny Companions before reading this. They answered all my questions and welcomed me to visit them. Did you actually work with them or only view their site? Yes, they are expensive and have a lot of dogs, but I really enjoyed talking with them. Does anyone else have experience or information on Tiny Companions that can be shared?


I do not have personal experience with them, but I just copied and pasted some of the text from their website into Google, which took me to a scam warning for a St. Bernard seller. It also matched text from _many_ other puppy sites: Capital Puppies, Furry Cockapoos, Golden Maltipoo Home, Perfect Peks (??) Kennel, Premier Pups,and more.

I will let you take a look at those yourself, and try to determine why they all use the same language on their websites. Multiple reviews of at least one of them cite horrible allegations of abuse.

If you’re just starting your poodle puppy search, we’ve got lots of resources and members here to support you. I’d suggest starting a new thread introducing yourself and letting us know where you’re located and what you’re looking for. We love sharing in puppy finding journeys.


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## PeggyTheParti

P.S. Of course, it’s always possible there’s more than one Tiny Companions. I was looking at tinycompanions.com.


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## Rose n Poos

Barbmroth said:


> Hi. Very interesting. I spoke with the owners at Tiny Companions before reading this. They answered all my questions and welcomed me to visit them. Did you actually work with them or only view their site? Yes, they are expensive and have a lot of dogs, but I really enjoyed talking with them. Does anyone else have experience or information on Tiny Companions that can be shared?


Viewing their site was sufficient for me to know that I would not consider them for myself. If I wouldn't consider a breeder for myself, I couldn't recommend them to others.

This is my personal criteria for selecting a breeder and what I offer to others as a guideline.

We often hear from folks that they just want a pet. What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that the kind of quality, conscientious breeders I, for one, prefer to support are always breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions, but are flawless to us.

About reviews, a happy owner doesn't necessarily mean an informed owner. It's as likely they've just been lucky, so far.
If looking at reviews, focus on the lower ratings, if they're present. Are people writing of similar issues or concerns? Example: Pup is taken to Vet within 2-3 days of arriving home. Vet says “Pup has *_ and needs treatment”. First, if breeder is hands on with all dogs, how did they not notice puppy had * ? Second, does health warranty/guarantee exclude *____*?

Getting a puppy from a quality, conscientious breeder is something like insurance. Their investment in the health, welfare, and soundness of all the dogs in their care including the puppies they offer to new homes is part of the reason you're not likely to find a less than $2000 USD puppy from them.

The saying is "pay the breeder or pay the vet". Price alone isn't the only thing to separate quality breeders from those less than. We've seen members quote as high and even much higher pricing for pups from parents not health tested, not proven to meet breed standards, sold as purebred when only a DNA test could determine that since they may be sold without registration papers.

Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder. The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

Look for and verify OFA/CHIC level testing at a minimum. There are also poodle specific DNA panels for those testable conditions. Those are companion testing with the OFA/CHIC testing.
Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)
A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much to back it if the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

Read thru any contracts that may be listed. If they rule out coverage for conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?

Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times and with pandemic puppy seekers, that wait is stretched well into 2021-2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs rather than keep a website updated.

When you start making contacts, let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.
Color preferences are understandable but keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies. That beautiful color you fell for may not look the same in a few weeks, or months, or years.

Temperament and personality are lifelong traits.

Be prepared to spend in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

Be prepared to travel outside your preferred area.

As a very general rule, websites to be leery of are those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience".


An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. An online search for "Poodle Club of ___ (your city or state)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.


As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, this is my short version personal criteria:

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come. 
Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is well bred.


Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time 😊.

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards and are physically capable by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.

Be extremely cautious of puppies sold thru pet stores, or online marketplaces like puppyspot, puppyfind, kijiji, craigslist, classified ads, etc. Many of these puppies may be mill puppies and while you may get lucky, the odds are against you and that sweet puppy. Finding a breeder in the AKC marketplace isn't an automatic guarantee of them being a quality breeder, but should, at a minimum, mean they are selling pups who may be registered with the AKC.

One additional caution, be very wary of those very cute short legged poodles. That's a genetic mutation which may carry serious life-altering disease.

This is a more detailed version. There's some additional info worth reviewing that I don't put in the abbreviated tips.

Breeding Program
! to maintain, improve, strengthen the breed by breeding to standard, for health and genetic diversity, and will prove their dogs meet these standards by showing or competing or by breeding from titled parents.
It's not the title, but what it shows
! focus is on quality, never quantity
! they do not cross breed
! they limit breeding to one to two breeds
! they limit breeding to only a few litters per year *

Breeding Parents
! registry information available
AKC Registry Lookup
Dog Search
! not too old or young for breeding
! not overbred
see Asking questions from a breeder
and Frequency of Breeding a Bitch
! health testing done appropriate to breed and variety
this includes genetic testing (genotype)
and
testing done by physical exam (phenotype) (eyes, heart, hips, patellas), some annually

! results of testing on own website, OFA site or testing lab
see Health Related Publications - Versatility In Poodles, Inc.
and OFA Lookup Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO


Living Conditions
! in home with family *
! breeder allows, even encourages home visits

Puppies
! routine and urgent vet care, immunizations, dewormings
! socialization
! first groomings
! registry papers
! they will not require spay/neuter before physical maturity
! health "guarantee" generally favors the breeder, not the buyer.
health guarantee is no replacement for health testing of dam and sire.
does the contract/guarantee/warranty rule out covering conditions the parents should have been tested for
! puppies are not sold with full registration (breeding rights) simply for the price of admission.
do you fully understand the terms of any contract/guarantee/warranty and can you live with them
beginning housetraining is a bonus
temperament testing is helpful

Advertising
! individual online site to detail history of breeder, goals for their program
! information on dams, sires, puppies
! no trend pricing for color, gender or size,
! no marketing gimmick terms like "teacup" "royal"


! Anything not found on a public online site should be provided by breeder before buying.

* Many people prefer small scale breeders because they feel the puppies will have better socialization and it's very unlikely to be a puppy mill-like operation.
This doesn't mean that larger scale breeders can't do things right. The breeder of record may not be hands on with every pup or poodle on the place but they should make sure that all the quality of life and attention are paid to all their dogs.

If a breeder wants me to believe that they believe in their dogs, they won't stop the investment when it comes time to find the new families. If they want to cut costs by using free advertising sites like craigslist or listing on retail marketplaces like puppyspot or puppyfind, or other classified ad sites such as newspapers, I wonder what else they've cut costs on.

Contact a few breeders to introduce yourself. Even if they don't have or don't offer what you're looking for, it can be a close knit community. They may know where to refer you.


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## Mfmst

I’m late to this thread, but welcome. You have gotten great advice and excellent resources for your search. I’ve learned that the color breeders of all sizes know or know of one another. Would contact Tabitha at NOLAStandards.com and see if she knows of any sources/breeders not already mentioned. I completely get that you want a red toy. It will share your life for a long time. Be patient, persistent and optimistic and your heart will get what it wants.


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## KitKat13

fborsha3 said:


> Can anyone please recommend red/apricot toy poodle breeders in the East Coast who covers necessary health checks. PLEASE HELP!
> 
> I found a few only who asks for $3000 and up, some for $6000 and up. I don't want a show quality pet. All I want is a happy healthy red/apricot toy poodle.
> 
> It's been over a month I've been looking for a suitable perfect breeder with no luck. And there are many puppy scammers around all the time.
> 
> I'd really appreciate if anyone could let me know breeders who have red/apricot toy puppies right now or expecting litters anytime soon.
> 
> BTW, just found out this Poodle Forum last night. I'm glad I finally landed here. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Thanks so much!


Did you ever find one? I to am looking and find it very difficult. Thanks so much!


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## Rose n Poos

Hi and Welcome to PF!

The OP hasn't posted for over a year but it's always possible that they might respond. 

In the meantime, if you don't mind elaborating a bit and adding some background, that will help us to help you. 

Is this your first dog? first poodle? first search for a quality, conscientious breeder? Are you also looking for a toy? 

Where have you been looking? I mean, what resources are you using to find a poodle? Are you trying to find a breeder with puppies on the ground now? 

It's very rare for the quality conscientious breeders to have puppies unspoken for, often even before they're born.


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## Genny

KitKat13 said:


> Did you ever find one? I to am looking and find it very difficult. Thanks so much!


I'm looking now too - not easy!


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## Rose n Poos

Genny said:


> I'm looking now too - not easy!


You'll want to be especially cautious when looking for a color as a priority criteria. 

Two things to know about reds are that the color, which I also love, has become a big trend. 

A lot of breeders that wouldn't meet a lot of criteria discussed in your threads are simply breeding the color and cashing in on folks who may not know what else to look for in a quality breeder and poodle. 

The other thing is that red almost without fail will fade, sometimes so far as to a very light apricot because red is a fading gene, as are most poodle colors. 

Posted by Click-N-Treat about her girl, Noelle, who is red>apricot

_Fading can be very dramatic. Here's Noelle as a seven-week-old puppy and the same dog at nearly three.

*Attachments*_

_
fullsizeoutput_141.jpg
192.6 KBViews: 70_
__
_Noelle At Salt Creek.jpg_
_235.9 KBViews: 72_

My boy Remo isn't a red but he also changed dramatically

Almost 9wks









4yrs


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## MelG

Barbmroth said:


> Hi. Very interesting. I spoke with the owners at Tiny Companions before reading this. They answered all my questions and welcomed me to visit them. Did you actually work with them or only view their site? Yes, they are expensive and have a lot of dogs, but I really enjoyed talking with them. Does anyone else have experience or information on Tiny Companions that can be shared?


Is that the breeder in West Winfield, NY?


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## Rose n Poos

That poster hasn't been active since May 2021 so a response is possible but unlikely.



Barbmroth said:


> I spoke with the owners at Tiny Companions before reading this. They answered all my questions and welcomed me to visit them.


This is the only Tiny Companions website that comes up on a google search and is the one I am referring to.
Tiny Companions - HOME

I counted over 25 dams, apparently being bred still, on their website. I counted over 10 sires, and didn't count their other retired dogs.

I've copied just this portion of their "health" guarantee.

"Tiny Companions certifies that at the time of sale and to the best of our knowledge, the puppy will be free of any congenital birth defects. Our puppies are guaranteed against parvovirus, distemper, hepatitis, kennel cough, or other communicable diseases at the time of sale.

*Buyer has researched and is knowledgeable of the non life threatening problems that a dog may have, and agrees that these are not covered under this health guarantee.**

The buyer is advised to have this puppy examined by a competent veterinarian of the buyers' choice within 3 business days to assure them that they have purchased a healthy puppy. This will be done at the purchaser's expense. Under no circumstances will Tiny Companions be responsible for any veterinarian bills acquired by the purchaser for this puppy.

*Minor, breed related, treatable or correctable conditions (such as Patellar Luxation, Legg-Calvé-Perthes Disease, Cryptorchidism, PRA-Prcd, etc), or any condition that may go away or is considered to be a condition which a puppy will likely outgrow, are not covered*.*

We give a very educated guess on mature size of pup but we do not guarantee size.

We DO NOT GIVE REFUNDS. We will give a replacement puppy for life threatening genetic diseases. If a health issue arises within the first TWENTY FOUR MONTHS of age which your vet believes could possibly be a life threatening genetic disease the following are the options:"

----------------------

Both luxating patellas and PRA are part of the recommended testing by the Poodle Club of America. Ask the owner of a puppy with inherited luxating patellae if they consider their dog being unable to run or walk normally "minor", if spending several thousand dollars per surgery to correct this is "minor", if a puppy going blind because the parents weren't tested for PRA is "minor".

* Sure, these aren't "life-threatening" but they are life-altering and could have been avoided if the recommended testing was done.

For this contract to be helpful to you, it will be necessary for you to do the research on all the possible conditions.


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## Rose n Poos

I didn't see pricing on the site but for comparison, a toy puppy from a breeder who does the recommended PCA health testing, offers a health guarantee based not only on breeding from parents who are cleared by that testing, but also parents who have been proven themselves to meet the breed standard, will probably be in the $2500-$3500 price range.


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## Moonshine

fborsha3 said:


> Rose n Poos, my response to your question ended up being my search history summary which I'd like to keep for myself. So I addressed your question with extra info. This will be helpful for me mostly I guess. Thank you!
> 
> Yes, by quite a few, I really meant quite a few. And they asked me do I want show quality as I kept on asking about all the necessary health checks. Then I was told these checks are done in all of their puppies, but show quality puppies' price would be much higher considering many other factors. It's been close to 45 days I've been searching constantly to find the perfect puppy. I've lost count of how many people I called. If I could, I'd have loved to give you the names of the people. I started calling people state by state. And I know there's nothing for me there so it's not possible for me to remember the names. Also, not a single breeder on AKC Marketplace responded to my query, even the ones where I did not mention red/apricot and it was mentioned on their profile that puppies are available or will be available soon. On AKC Marketplace, I contacted breeders state by state in all states of New England, New York, Maryland, Pennsylvania. Trust me, I did not receive even one single reply. Also, most of the breeders never bother to respond as they must be getting this calls all day long given the high demand. And the reputable breeders never receive calls. I called so many breeders already a few times but no response! Those who receive either informs me that they have around 40/50 on waitlist or they are accepting applications for Spring 2021 or whole year 2021. I'm on most probably all the Poodle related Facebook Pages looking for good breeders when people post healthy looking poodles. Surprisingly, other than the scammers, there are many helpful people out there who are willing to help as much as they can. Glad to realize that.
> I earnestly requested in my emails and voicemails that I am seriously looking for one, I'd really appreciate if they please give me a call back. But to no avail! And surprisingly it happened the most when I contacted the reputable breeders. They don't even respond to Facebook messages. Fun fact, I was looking for a yorkie before i decided on a poodle. Reputable breeders of Yorkies at least responded, but poodle breeders - None! I know they are busy but when someone contacts everywhere and there is no response, then I have no idea how to reach them. Also, they have no idea it's the same person knocking them everywhere as I am not mentioning my name again and again in all of the platforms. I think the high demand during the pandemic made the reputable breeders stop receiving calls/emails as they have huge wait list already. Anyway, this have been my search for my dream dog history.
> About the expensive ones, I found three in the New York and New England region. I think they were Crawmers, Rodell on the higher end and most probably Tiny Companion could be the $6500 one. Again, I just called and checked off the list and noted high price. I know I was told $6000-$6500 so seeing my "high price" note I'm guessing these could be the three. BUT, If anyone is reading this, please make sure you call and ask the price yourself. I've called so many, so I cannot guarantee 100% accuracy at this point as it's been a while I am searching.
> 
> BTW, I know it's my criteria for the poodle made it so difficult to find one - red/apricot female toy/mini. And they ask for higher for these colors. I have had other colors of dogs before. This is my dream dog I've been waiting for, so this time I am determined to do all it takes to get a happy healthy dream dog.
> I have contacted a couple poodle clubs who gave me very important information on what to look for in a breeders. My next plan is to contact the referral people state by state on these poodle club.
> 
> P.S. Everything I mentioned above are the summery of the search for a perfect healthy toy/mini poodle for over a month. I tried my level best to mention everything (i.e. 40/50 waitlist, the price range) as exact as possible. I am going to create a post copy pasting this just in case it helps anyone out there looking for a poodle.


I have had three toys from Abounding Poodles. My most recent one is a beautiful copper red, now 9 months old. She does all desired testing on her breeding dogs, and picks her puppy owners carefully. She will arrange for door-to-door delivery for an extra fee. Please check with her for availability. BTW, I did not specify color when I contacted her, I was looking for personality!


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## PeggyTheParti

Oops! You’ve landed in an old thread, and the original poster has since found a puppy. I’m going to close this thread to avoid any confusion.

Feel free to start a new one to show off your little cuties.  I’d love to hear more about them.


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