# English Saddle Clip



## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

I've thought this before too, but the only thing I can find myself is that it balances the trim! lol! Seriously, those lil bald spots make a huge difference to the ES trim, it draws the eye to the centre of the dog and seems to balance the whole look. 

The entire trim has no real practical purpose except to have more hair than the CC, and have the joints kept clean so they can move freely. I can't work out the kidney patches though. lol


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

FD where did you find that info about the purpose of the trim itself? I've never been able to really find much of anything about the history of it :/ I would love to read more. 

I don't do kidney patches. Partly because I am dumb I guess and in spite of multiple attempts cannot get them right and partly b/c I do believe they are optional. At least I thought they were.... I honestly havent so much as even looked at the grooming instruction on the clip in probably two years. I can almost never even find decent photos of it. 

What's your feeling or perhaps if you've read anything specific maybe on the most desired shape of the kidney patch? I have a book from the 1950's that has a couple of different variations on the ES and the patches are the difference in most. Some are very large (as in long vertically) crescents and others are more like the half moon shaped deals that continue to stump me. I guess I just don't do round well, I do straight lines and blended shapes but clippering an actual circle type shape that small just doesn't work for me. I haven't learned the secret yet I guess.


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

lol, I haven't read anything much about the ES either, in fact history on it is rather vague. I'm just going by my own thoughts really!!!


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## Princess Dollie (Jan 15, 2011)

Interesting.

The kidney patch reminds me of the relief put into the joint of where a headboard meets the corner post of a bed.

These vary in size also. Maybe, like FD said, it's the expression of overall balance.


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

WonderPup said:


> What's your feeling or perhaps if you've read anything specific maybe on the most desired shape of the kidney patch? I have a book from the 1950's that has a couple of different variations on the ES and the patches are the difference in most. Some are very large (as in long vertically) crescents and others are more like the half moon shaped deals that continue to stump me. I guess I just don't do round well, I do straight lines and blended shapes but clippering an actual circle type shape that small just doesn't work for me. I haven't learned the secret yet I guess.


WonderPup, you had me reaching for my copy of Del Dahl's Complete Poodle. He has great photographs of lots of beautiful minis in ES, along with Acadia Command Performance also wearing the ES beautifully. In his version of the illustrated standard, they show a traditional and a modern ES--the traditional has a smaller circle for the kidney patch, and the modern is much more of a crescent, and taller vertically. 

But in his otherwise detailed descriptions of how to do the trims, he doesn't spend much time describing the kidney patch. 

As to its function (aesthetic function that is), my guess is that it helps to break up the loin, and make it look shorter and stronger maybe?


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Nothing of importance, but I just wanted to add that I saw a Brown Mini bitch in an ES this weekend in Iowa. She is from the Deagra Kennel and boy was the trim cute on her.


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

I enjoy seeing it because it is such a novelty. But I'm not sure I like it on the dog who won the variety at WKC last year (Splash di Caprio). WP, you can *just* see the kidney patch in this photo. 

The Westminster Kennel Club | Photo


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

I've got about 10 copies of poodle variety laying around that I noticed several ES's in. Depending on the angle of the photo you may or may not be able to see the patch. 

Maybe I'll try it again on Jazz at a later date, but for now she is kidney patch free


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

cbrand said:


> Nothing of importance, but I just wanted to add that I saw a Brown Mini bitch in an ES this weekend in Iowa. She is from the Deagra Kennel and boy was the trim cute on her.


That makes me wonder why most of the dog's I've seen either in photos or in person with this trim are mini's. I've never seen it in person on a standard at a show and only one toy, but I've seen several mini's with it.


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

We wanted to try the ES trim on Rune. Got someone to help us and figure out how to place the pattern, etc.
I was told ( and it's true!!) that the trim looks better on a smaller dog. Standards need a lot of hair to pull it off. And the dog should not be "leggy" or tall. I think I want to try it on Madonna, but then I don't want to grow all her jacket..lol
here is a pic of Rune, he does not have enough jacket coat. Forgive the photo as the floor/backdrop was slippery, and he kept sliding


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## Sutton Bend (Jul 28, 2010)

I do like the over all look, but it may be better on the minis.


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## Princess Dollie (Jan 15, 2011)

So is the kidney patch a decorative feature than a historical feature? Works for me either way.


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

I'm tempted to give it a go on Paris one day. haha!!! But yes, I mostly only see minis in it... the odd toy, but I've never seen a spoo in it in person either (mind you I've only ever seen 3 spoos in show coat in person so that's not saying much!)


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

tintlet said:


> I was told ( and it's true!!) that the trim looks better on a smaller dog. Standards need a lot of hair to pull it off. And the dog should not be "leggy" or tall.


Agreed. The Mini I saw it on was a small bitch. I just thought it emphasized her good bone and made her look really square. Perhaps on a smaller than average Poodle it gives them more presence. It didn't hurt that this bitch was a lovely Brown with good coat. The ES just lets the judge see more of the color.

There is a Standard Special in our area that is in an ES. I have to agree that while I like seeing the trim I was not wowed by her in it.


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

I'd have to agree that it doesn't do any favors for a leggy dog. Jazz is on the shorter side The trim makes her look more squared off even in it's imperfect state. 

FD it'd probably be easy to do for you since more than half of it is kind of already done in the clip she is in at present. I'd love to see another spoo in it and compare notes. Jazz's pattern is a bit imperfect(to say the least). One of those moments that I seem to have more and more often now where you step back to look at what you just did and think OH CRAP! That lines isn't exactly where I intended it to be. I realize now I was holding my thumb over the spot where I wanted to shave and without thinking about it shaved above where I really wanted. Oh well. It looks good on her I think. One of the few haircuts I haven't ever hated on her 

Here she be, feel free to critique. I know it needs to be tweaked and this trim is just all in good fun really. Nothing serious since lord knows I don't have time to get serious about it 

This is in December when I had a baby free day to do whatever I wanted 








We took these photos over the weekend for my little grooming scrapbook even though I didn't have time to scissor her (or fix that bump on her butt lol).














And here is the very first time I tried it back in early 09 just to compare, she had almost no coat compared to what she has now, I was still growing it from when we adopted her


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

tintlet said:


> We wanted to try the ES trim on Rune. Got someone to help us and figure out how to place the pattern, etc.
> I was told ( and it's true!!) that the trim looks better on a smaller dog. Standards need a lot of hair to pull it off. And the dog should not be "leggy" or tall. I think I want to try it on Madonna, but then I don't want to grow all her jacket..lol
> here is a pic of Rune, he does not have enough jacket coat. Forgive the photo as the floor/backdrop was slippery, and he kept sliding


first of all I want your dog lol and second did you have a kidney patch? I can't see it and am not sure if it's hiding or absent.


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