# Why NOT the sporting clip?



## Trillium

KPoos said:


> I was reading an article about poodle origin and it briefly touched on clips. Obviously the breed clubs regulate the breed standard so my question is why NOT the sporting clip? I think if there was an easier clip allowed, more people would show and it would benefit the breed overall. Why would you want to make it so hard that only a select number of people would even bother? Why not put the dog in a clip that shows what it was bred for (HCC or sporting) and allow more people to be interested in your breed and showing it? Seems like it makes sense to me but maybe I'm not seeing the bigger picture?hwell:


I couldn't agree with you more


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

Oh, I very much agree with this opinion!! I do not have the same respect for UKC shows as I do CKC and AKC shows....I am sorry, but that is my opinion. I do however like the fact that they allow a sporting clip on the Poodles being shown at their events. So, if the CKC and AKC allowed a Poodle to be shown in the same clips as the UKC sanctioned shows, I believe there would be a lot more people interested in this sport. 

I grew up in a home where all of our dogs were shown at CKC events. This is likely the road I would take IF I were able to show one now, and IF my dogs could be in a more managable clip. My two females, who I co-own with Trillium are what I consider to be show worthy. But, they live in the home of my co-owner, who has her hands quite full with three kids, a part time job, a husband and another Spoo. I would no more ask her to care for show coat than ask her to run to Toronto in her underwear. It would be unreasonable to expect someone to take this on. But, if we could show the girls in sporting clips, this would be an altogether different story.

Yes, yes, yes,yes. I think this is a fabulous idea. It makes me wonder too how different the results would have been at many shows if all of the Poodles had to be shown in sporting clips and didn't have all of that coat to hide behind and to cover flaws with. I am not for one minute insinuating that NONE of the dogs who have gone on to have remarkable show careers would not still have done so with shorter coat, but I know some of them wouldn't have.


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## plumcrazy

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> I would no more ask her to care for show coat than ask her to run to Toronto in her underwear.


I'd buy TICKETS to THIS event!! WooHooo! :lol:


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## KPoos

I'm not insinuating that the dogs shouldn't be shown in CC but just to allow sporting as well. I just don't understand the breed club's thinking on this. I think it cannot do anything but benefit the breed itself if more people show up to shows. There are more dues because more would join the clubs, more people would show, which benefits local clubs as well as vendors, and there would be many more owner handlers out there, which benefits the breed as a whole. 

The most obvious observation of a show poodle is the coat. Most average owners cannot manage that coat (not everyone is a groomer) which puts them off about showing dogs in general, making them think they are a foofoo dog which they are not. I think it also puts them off about people that do show poodles, that they are in a different class and they look other routes to own a poodle. There are positives and negatives about including a broader spectrum of people in your breed but the overall achievements of the breed itself should speak the loudest.


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## cbrand

To protect group and BIS wins for mostly pro-handlers. A good Standard Poodle in a full Continental is very, very hard to beat. The old guard who runs PCA doesn't want to see this advantage disappear. 

I agree that if you allowed Poodles to be shown in a Lamb trim that more people would show their own dogs. However, you would have to require that ****All*** Poodles be shown this way or the Lamb trims would just get dumped the way the HCC dogs do now.

Perhaps in an attempt to split the baby, the class dogs could be shown in Lamb and the Specials in full Continental.


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## KPoos

I think a split is a good idea. I guess until there is someone new at the head of the breed club or there is enough support, it will never come to pass. There is nothing wrong with new blood entering into a sport and I'm sure there are a lot of nice dogs to compete if the grooming wasn't as time consuming as it is.


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## Poodlepal

Unless you shave em with a 7 or 10, no matter what cut you put them in it will still end up a grooming competition. It is the nature of the poodles hair that you can trim it and shape it into anything you want and the better you are at it the better the dog looks. In a modified HCC or lamb trim you can still level an uneven back, shorten or lengthen the body, add neck or create any ilusion you want. Heck I seen em turn a poodle into a camel before. I would even hazard to say that in the foo foo trim of today, you can hide less to an extent since the whole back end is neked. No hiding straight legs or a poor rear when it is shaved with a 40. Not sure anyone wants to see shaved down poodles at a show tho!


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## KPoos

Sporting clip isn't that short, it's 1" all over and that's certainly not a 7 blade. It's a hellava lot easier for you to shave a 1" even clip all over a dog than to grow out huge mounds of coat on the neck and head and keep it from breaking and banding it up all of the time. I don't think sporting clip even comes close to a grooming competition if you are comparing it to continentals of the show world.

Like you said a continental has shaved legs so what's wrong with just NOT growing the neck and head out and keeping the dog even all over if you want?


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## Poodlepal

That's what Im saying. the only way to make it fair and not a grooming competition would be to have them shaved down all the way so that you can't do creative grooming. Even the sporting trim of One inch of hair is a lot to work with for creating an illusion and unless the judges measure the hair and ensure everyone has the same length, you still will get in the pickle of having better groomers who can hide flaws and create things that aren't there working with the hair and put nongroomers at a disadvantage. So the answer is, shave em all the way so you can't do that. So you would need a standard that says dogs must be presented with less than 1/2 inch or hair (or whatever) uniformm all over the body and you get dq'd out if you grow even 1/2 more hair on the chest or whereever or cut off more than 1/2 inch in other places. see what I mean?


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

plumcrazy said:


> I'd buy TICKETS to THIS event!! WooHooo! :lol:


You are a brat!!!

Cbrand...I like your idea of a split, because you are sooooo correct. If a CC and sporting clip were competing, the CC would likely win. But, the short clips could get their points then compete against the specials.

Poodlepal...you are right. It would have to be shorter than an inch so what you see is what you get.

Kpoos...fabulous thread, and fantastic idea. Now how the heck can we begin lobbying the CKC, AKC and breed clubs for change...any suggestions where to start...


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## KPoos

Most of that starts with local breed clubs. You have to have people in high places if you know what I mean, agreeing with the reasoning behind it and lobbying to change it. I don't have a clue how a breed club changes their standards. If there is just one person in charge, if members get a vote in changes, or what. I think that if more people took an interest (people that didn't have special interests on the side if you know what I mean) and petitioned for changes, you might be able to apply a little pressure. 

I guess a small person can move a big mountain with the support of people behind them and enough determination.


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## cerulia

our poodle is cut in a short sporting clip and she is beautiful. But it amazes me how many people see her, think she's gorgeous and ask what kind of dog she is! When we say she's a standard poodle they can't believe it! The general populace has no idea that a poodle can have a cut other than what you see at a dog show.


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