# Nail length on Show dogs



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Ladyscarletthawk said:


> What is the appropriate length for show dog nails? I notice that the shorter nails make feet look tighter and doenst interfere with movement. My girls nails are too long for my taste even with frequent grinding.. altho they dont touch the ground making clicking noises. I want to see what experienced show people think. Also are judges really picky about it? Thanks!


I can remember hearing the term "large chocolate chips" being used to describe show nails. If you dremel them every ten days or so, you can get them back nicely.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I'm curious about show poodle's nails too. Leroy is not a show dog but I find his nails to be long (but not touching the ground). I have a feeling if he was a show dog, I'd have to quick his front nails to get the quick to recede. I saw nails on a show Springer Spaniel and they were the shortest nails I've ever seen! His nails are grinded every few days to expose the white part of the quick, so that it can recede. The very short nails made his feet look very nice and tight. I'm sure some judges will be picky about this cause long nails may ruin the profile or silhoulette of the dog.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

As short as possible. You have to grind very often (every couple days) or quick them. If you go ten days you'll have to quick them a little.


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## lavillerose (Feb 16, 2011)

Early and Often is my best advice! I've cut Albi's nails every 7 days, without fail, since I got her at 10 weeks. I've never dremmeled them, and never quicked them either, I just take off about 2mm each time I do it.

These photos are from today, which is nail trim day, and I haven't done them yet. You can see, they are a bit pointy (and muddy, we walked earlier), but still quite short. I'll take those points off.

If you've already let them grow out as your dog grows/has grown, it is MUCH harder to get the quicks back to "show length", unless you quick them all the way back, and then you'll have to deal with your dog's misgivings about having it done, since that hurts!

Long nails are a groomer peeve of mine, especially when owner's moan and complain about it. It's the OWNER'S fault they do not take initiative and either do it themselves or have it done as often as necessary, and as often as necessary is at the very least once a month, if not more (I tell people, dogs need their manicure as often as people do). Hardwood floors can be sanded and refinished. Your dog's fears of being quicked? Not reparable.

So, any of you with little puppies: early and often. Do not wait, and do it/have it done weekly if you want to keep nice, short nails.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Show nails have to be much, much shorter than you average "short" pet nail. None of my dogs' nails touch the floor as long as I've been good about clipping them. But that is not near short enough for the show ring. Show dogs need stubs. It's difficult to get them that short without quicking them to some degree.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Ladyscarletthawk said:


> Also are judges really picky about it? Thanks!


It's not that judges are picky about it, it's that the foot appears much tighter without much of a nail.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

To give you a good idea, these are Tiger's nails one whole week after clipping. I just snapped these photos with my iPhone. His nails were tipped exactly clipped one week ago. He showed last weekend. His back nails are better than his front nails. I'd like his front nails a bit shorter but I just hate to quick him badly so I will work them down again. Like I said, it's been a week so they've grown a decent amount (raw fed nails grow fast!)

I will tip and grind them again tomorrow for his show this weekend.

The first photo is of his front foot. The second is his back foot.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I am drooling here! These nails we are seeing are fabulous!!


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

Whoa, those are some seriously short nails! Good thing Beau is not a show dog. He only gets his clipped every three weeks. (I'm sure he thinks that's plenty, thanks very much.)


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

Yep, that show Springer had nubs for nails. VERY short. Of course his feet looked fabulous once he was stacked!


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

Very short nails on a dog are painful. I have heard of judges in the doberman ring telling a handler that nails were too short. You can get your pet's nails looking great by dremmeling twice a week...taking only a very small amount off. When you dremmel and wait 4 or 5 days the quick receeds some, then you can dremmel again. You have to be deiligent but you can get them looking very nice..but dont quick your dogs nails. That is painful and unnecessary!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I agree, quicking can be painful. But it IS commonly done in the show world. Typically I grind a few times a week so quicking won't be necessary.


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I agree, quicking can be painful. But it IS commonly done in the show world. Typically I grind a few times a week so quicking won't be necessary.


Right..unfortunately our dogs are at the mercy of their people :-(

But I have had very short nails on my doberman and on Stella for years..and I never quick the nails. I just dont want new people to see super short nails and read that people LOVE that and try to do this to their pet. 

If you dremmel and allow time for the quick to receed..then dremmel again you will have nice pretty nails.  It takes a while but it can be done humanely. Allow 5 or so days in between for the quick to receed then shave a little more off  

Madonna's nails are very long...I have gotten them half of what they were but a couple still click on the floor!!:afraid: I figure in one more month Ill have them where I want them.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Ms Stella said:


> If you dremmel and allow time for the quick to receed..then dremmel again you will have nice pretty nails.  It takes a while but it can be done humanely. Allow 5 or so days in between for the quick to receed then shave a little more off
> .


That's ideal and works great for pets and those who have the time to grind their show dog's nails frequently. But if you have a show in a couple of days and haven't had time to dremel every couple of days, you're going to have to quick their nails. 

When you need nails to be show length short (which is NUBS and way shorter than a pet *needs* to be kept, even a week will cause this quicks to grow too long. My dog reacts no differently to being slightly quicked than to simply tipping. The only time he's acted in pain was when I actually quicked TOO much (he moved). 

This is why many handlers quick nails. They don't have time to grind every dog's nails multiple times a week.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

what exactly is meant by "Quick the nails?"

is that to cut into the quick and hurt the dog? just to have their feet look just so?


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

faerie said:


> what exactly is meant by "Quick the nails?"
> 
> is that to cut into the quick and hurt the dog? just to have their feet look just so?


When I first got Sunny last September, his nails were a bit longer than I liked, but he had been running outside on acreage not on city sidewalks, etc. so when my vet saw him the next week, we were talking and said, yes, they can be taken down (not sure if he called it quicking) short, but he does not recommend as it is very painful for the dog, and I can get the same effect by dremmeling frequently -- which is what I have been doing. I never would have done that anyway, but at least now I know. Not sure if what CM was referring to is the same as what the vet referred to; I think he was referring to something they would surgically do? Just the thought............no way.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Yes, it is when you cut the nail where it needs to be regardless of where the quick is. It happens a lot in the show world because of how short the nails need to be. The choices are quick the nail or grind extremely frequently. Obviously the latter is less traumatizing for both human and canine.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

sheeshus, those poor dogs which have to be hurt for beauty. i don't mean grooming and drying and brushing which doesn't hurt them, but quicking does. poor puppers. i say just trim nails more often.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I have seen show dogs with little nubbins for nails. yuck. The short nails on show dogs look unnatural. Obviously, they ARE unnatural because you have to mess with them so much to get them like that. This is one more thing that bothers me about showing dogs. If they are judged inferior because of their nails that is ridiculous. It is done to make the feet look better. Nails should be trimmed back to a natural place for the dog so they aren't clicking on the floor. They might actually need to use those nails for things. 
Just my humble opinion.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

There's a lot of dirty secrets in the show world.

Stuffing, anyone? 

It's a fun sport nonetheless and many dogs enjoy the sort as much as their human companion!


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

There's too many controversial topics when it comes to showing dogs. I would never quick Leroy's nails to get it short quicker. I cut and dremmel them every 1-2 weeks. His nails are good for a pet!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

tokipoke said:


> His nails are good for a pet!


His nails are good for a show dog, too. I want to take a dog to AKC without dye, without wiggles, without a handler and without hacked up nails. I am looking forward to it. A couple more years to go...


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

There are judges I have heard that if they hear a click on the floor they won't just LOOK at the feet they'll scold the handler (I love when Judges voice their opinions and tell the handlers whats what!!) HAHAHA XD

I personally LOVE the look of a cut back nail :] it makes the feet look so much nicer IMO, I don't like the idea of quicking but its much less traumatizing when done by someone that knows what they're doing.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

outwest said:


> His nails are good for a show dog, too. I want to take a dog to AKC without dye, without wiggles, without a handler and without hacked up nails. I am looking forward to it. A couple more years to go...


I can point out several kennels that don't do any of that outwest...OH and you forgot to mention hair spray ;D thats cheating too


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Thank you for the responses.. I liked seeing the pix and hearing timelines that different individuals use to keep their dogs nails short. I am a groomer as well and rarely use quickstop on my clients as I dont quick nails often. My moral compass is on straight as well and my girl's nails are no where like your avg pet dog.. My coworkers complement how short their nails are all the time. Moral arguments on the subject dont interest me. 

It is what it is, short nails make the feet look nicer.. I love the short nail look, it is a small detail that enhances the overall look of the dog. I dont relish in quicking a dog's nail however, and have tried frequent grinding to get her nails short.. My toy poodle is very easy to keep and if I neglect her nails, coat or teeth.. there is lil damage done and I can get her nails show length with grinding in a couple weeks of every other day intervals. My mini however.. well if I glance away for a second her nails grow too long, her teeth start to get tartar, and her hair starts to mat arrghh! 

Seriously before a show I am grinding everyother day, which she doesnt like. She's fine with less frequent grinding. It is the only way to get her nails short.. like Charismatic Millie said if you go a week her nails grow too long.. I havent been able to get her nails short enough even with that regime.. they look like the "overgrown" nails in the pix of this post. Great for pets but not what I have seen in the ring.

I need 3 wins over CH to finish her AKC grand and want to optimize her chances of finishing. She has obtain majors and points easily enough, but the CH wins have been more difficult lol. She doesnt have flat feet but sometimes she will spread her toes and flatten them when I hand stack her *sigh*. I was taught how and did quick her nails back after her first litter as she did not stay with me during the initial 9-10wks. It was difficult enough to manage to save/ demat her show coat for 3hrs at a time because I couldnt get out there often enough let alone maintain the weeds that is her nails either. I didnt relish in it, and would prefer not to have to do it ever. I didnt quick as short as I probably should have for the ring but they were adaquate enough. I will say as soon as I let her go she turned around and pounced on me for some loving, which broke my heart even more.. Such a forgiving girl.

My main concern over this thread was nail length.. I have no interest in hurting her and have been trying to grind her nails back and wanted an idea of how long they needed to be before I could "back off" and do it less often and have it at a maintanance interval. I often back off after a show as I said she doesnt like everyother day grinding as it is probably sensitive with their being a thin layer around the quick when Im already regrinding. I dont always have time to do it as often but i try and at most it goes a week.. *sigh*.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> There's a lot of dirty secrets in the show world.
> 
> Stuffing, anyone?
> 
> It's a fun sport nonetheless and many dogs enjoy the sort as much as their human companion!


Ok Ill bite.. testicles?


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Keithsomething said:


> I can point out several kennels that don't do any of that outwest...OH and you forgot to mention hair spray ;D thats cheating too


LOL I confess I use more than 3 bands and use hairspray.. put the cuffs on me!:angel:


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## KalaMama (Nov 20, 2009)

There is just no excuse for quicking. If one is too lazy or too busy to properly trim the nails then don't show the dog or show the dog with natural nails. Not all show people do this. Why should the dog have to pay for what the human failed to do....


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Ladyscarletthawk said:


> LOL I confess I use more than 3 bands and use hairspray.. put the cuffs on me!:angel:


Does *anyone* use only 3 bands??


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

The only issue I have with super short toenails is a Dobe we treated at the clinic. She was being shown and her owner (who loved her dearly) hired someone to keep her nails at the 'proper' length. Her nails were so short and quicked so often, she ended up with an infection and eventually had to have the toe amputated. I know this is not common, but I don't feel it ever should have happened. Her namils were so short, they disappeared , I guess they receded into the nail bed maybe? While doing that, the nail introduced whatever dirt and contaminants into the nailbed itself.

My dogs are not show dogs, I use them for performance events. I like a little longer nail, something they can dig in with if needed (herding, schutzhund, and tracking). Nails get dremmeled (hah! it's a verb now - so there) when I hear them 'tapdancing' on the kitchen floor.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Does *anyone* use only 3 bands??


Yeah they do.. on puppies ;D


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

BorderKelpie said:


> The only issue I have with super short toenails is a Dobe we treated at the clinic. She was being shown and her owner (who loved her dearly) hired someone to keep her nails at the 'proper' length. Her nails were so short and quicked so often, she ended up with an infection and eventually had to have the toe amputated. I know this is not common, but I don't feel it ever should have happened. Her namils were so short, they disappeared , I guess they receded into the nail bed maybe? While doing that, the nail introduced whatever dirt and contaminants into the nailbed itself.
> 
> My dogs are not show dogs, I use them for performance events. I like a little longer nail, something they can dig in with if needed (herding, schutzhund, and tracking). Nails get dremmeled (hah! it's a verb now - so there) when I hear them 'tapdancing' on the kitchen floor.


Thanks for the info Border . I am currently just grinding her nails frequently, but I am being a lil more drastic, we'll say, than one normally would do. We'll see how well it goes.. if it works for me I may post about it. Already started to document it..


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

While at a grooming seminar, I noticed and complimented one of the assisting teachers on her show poodle's lovely short nails. Here is how it went:

Me: I love how short his nails are. I grind Bonzai's every week or two but I think ill start doing them more often so I can get them shorter like your boy's.

Poodle Person: Bonzai's are MUCH too long. If I were you, I would just cut them down to nubbins and go from there.

Me (eyes wide in astonishment): you mean just hack through her quicks? But that would HURT!

Poodle Person (shrugging): it doesn't hurt you. 

Me: I could never do that. wouldn't I get the same results from grinding them down gradually? 

PP: sure, but it takes forever to correct overgrown quicks.

For the record, Bonzai's nails are NOT crazy long by pet standards. But they are definitely not show length.


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

As a groomer and an exhibitor, nails are a pet peeve of mine. When I first started showing, I was taught the "wack and pack" (quick short and pack with quik-stop) method. I am not a fan of it at all. 
I worked for a handler for a little while, and we dremeled all the dogs (8 standards, 3 toys, 3 bichons and a briard) once a week. their nails were a nice length for show. It takes dremeling every 3 days for about 2-3 weeks to go from regular nails to "show" nails. if you quick your dog severely, they can and a lot of times will go lame. 
I handled a toy manchester for my vet. It was her first show dog, and she was told by a breeder to cut the nails off at the toe before the show. so 5 days before the show she sedated the dog and cut them off AT THE TOE. When I saw it I chewed her a new one, the poor little guy didn't want to walk let alone gait (can you blame him?) the judge did not say anything, but I felt like crap just being on the other end of his leash, and his owner felt bad too. 

now, I realize that on occasion quicking will happen ( I accidentally quicked three of Izzy's toenails, and two of Willow's this week  ) but they didn't even notice, because it wasn't a huge amount, just barely cut into them, however there is no excuse for intentionally cutting far into the quick, unless maybe if the dog had super long neglected twirly nails and the quick is actually touching the ground.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

IMO to hack off your dogs nails is not any differant that what has been done to Walking Horses! Both are cruel.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Carley's Mom said:


> IMO to hack off your dogs nails is not any differant that what has been done to Walking Horses! Both are cruel.


I tend to agree. I'm a nail biter, and if I nip one of my own too close, it hurts for days. I just can't imagine walking like that. Makes me cringe thinking about it. 

I do need to do Bug's nails, he was tap-dancing this morning. Thank goodness he's so easy.  Maybe I'll polish them again. Fun little easy boy.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I am also not comfortable whacking a dog's nails to a stub but I DO know it happens plenty so I said it like it is. That said, I tend to clip and grind around the quick. One time Tiger moved when I was clipping a back nail. I wasn't ready to clamp down yet and was sort of trying to find the right spot. I found the spot and started to clip but that's when he moved. The clipper slid back and I whacked his toenail insanely short. This nail was *already* a nubbin because he had just returned from living with a handler. He bled for
I SWEAR an hour. (and he's VWD clear) i had him in the bathtub with running water because the quick wouldn't stop the gushing. When you get that close to the toe, the vein is bigger. I wanted to cry and throw up. Poor Tiger didn't even know the difference. Was wagging his tail and I felt so horrible.

My moral compass too is on right and I cannot just whack into the toe. But slightly quicking the nail whether with a clipper or a dremel is not even close to the same.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I just did nails on a dog an hour ago. Her nails and quicks were long. Owner didn't want grinding cause it'd cost extra but I grinded anyway cause she really needed it (at no extra charge). I cut the nails right to the quick. You could see a white dot, or a red dot. It was a hair lengths away from bleeding. I grinded the white tips of the nails as much as possible. I hope her quicks will recede. Nails are so much easier to do on clear nails. Leroy has black nails so I'm more careful (i always feel like guessing). Some dogs will squirm more with the dremmel because the nails become so sensitive right at the quick, luckily the dog liked the dremmel.


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## Melodyp77 (Mar 4, 2012)

my girl friend was telling me about show people clipping the nail back and making the nails bleed for show length. i never thought she was lying i was just upset to hear about it. well at my first show a lady was giving me advice on how to present my dog better etc etc. she must of been able to tell i was new..lol. anyway she proceeded to tell me that my dogs nails were way to long. all i could say was " you really think so?" let me just tell you that my dog is my pet first and even though we both like to show(me and jax) we don't want showing to hurt but to be fun. crazy lady!!!!!:ahhhhh:


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

The ONLY time I'd recommend cutting into the quick is it the dogs nails and quicks are so long that they're causing the toes to bend when they walk (seen it) but the dog must be sedated. I can't rationalize cutting into the quicks on an awake dog on purpose. The 'It doesn't hurt YOU' comment that that lady gave you, Funky, is wrong. Because it would hurt my _heart_!

V and V's nails are right to the quick, their nails are about 2.5 times longer than Tigers, I grind them once a week or sooner, and both will start whining a bit when I get close (Well, Vegas will full out scream) and even though I KNOW it won't kill them, I'd still feel bad getting much closer. Vienna has the pain tolerance of a fish, so if she whines about something she's not being a wuss like Vegas would.

Cairo's nails aren't terrible, but I want them a bit shorter, I just don't want to traumatize him by hacking into the quick for a show. My dogs _allow _me to do their nails for a reason.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Cairo's toesies, back, front, and a full view of a front foot.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

I can easily get Eve's nails as short as Cairo's first pic very easily.. Fergie not so easy and def need a more drastic grinding technique


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I am also not comfortable whacking a dog's nails to a stub but I DO know it happens plenty so I said it like it is. That said, I tend to clip and grind around the quick. One time Tiger moved when I was clipping a back nail. I wasn't ready to clamp down yet and was sort of trying to find the right spot. I found the spot and started to clip but that's when he moved. The clipper slid back and I whacked his toenail insanely short. This nail was *already* a nubbin because he had just returned from living with a handler. He bled for
> I SWEAR an hour. (and he's VWD clear) i had him in the bathtub with running water because the quick wouldn't stop the gushing. When you get that close to the toe, the vein is bigger. I wanted to cry and throw up. Poor Tiger didn't even know the difference. Was wagging his tail and I felt so horrible.
> 
> My moral compass too is on right and I cannot just whack into the toe. But slightly quicking the nail whether with a clipper or a dremel is not even close to the same.


Sometimes Iquick a nail or two with grinding..at worst they flinch.. dont even need quick stop, and will let me do their feet again. Even love on me right after.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Ok, I quickly did Bug's nails last night before I went to work. I got close, but didn't quick any. The snuggle session afterward made it all worthwhile for both of us. No, they'll never be as 'pretty' as show dogs, but when he wants to run, jump and climb he can. 

He needs some nails to dig in while trying to catch Paige. Maybe I should shorten hers a bit more to slow her down for him. Poor little Bug. lol


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## Panda (Jan 7, 2010)

How often should you grind pet nails? 

Pandas front nails never get too bad (although they are quite long, I probably dremel them back to about 1.5cm)but his back right foot gets talon like as it doesnt touch the ground due to his flat foot.

How long should pet nails be?


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

Panda said:


> How often should you grind pet nails?
> 
> Pandas front nails never get too bad (although they are quite long, I probably dremel them back to about 1.5cm)but his back right foot gets talon like as it doesnt touch the ground due to his flat foot.
> 
> How long should pet nails be?


 For a pet, usually grinding once every 2 weeks is sufficient. I try really hard to grind Trev's nails at least weekly, (good, fast growing hair seems to go hand in hand with fast growing nails.) but sometimes life gets in the way, and it ends up being every two. If a quick does get too long, what I do is grind the nail back as far as possible without quicking, then hit it again a day or two later....usually by then the quick has receded to an acceptable point. As far as acceptable length...I think it depends on the dog. Since Panda's feet are flat, I would recommend keeping the nails very short, that helps keep them from becoming even more flat. You shouldn't be able to hear him clicking when he walks on tile or hard wood floor. HTH!


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I am also not comfortable whacking a dog's nails to a stub but I DO know it happens plenty.


The first advice I got from my puppy's breeder: Poodle people are MEAN to their dogs. Refering to cutting off toenails, firstly.

I have to get a grinder. Clipping once a week is not enough for puppy nails!


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## Panda (Jan 7, 2010)

I think Pandas nails (and quicks) are too long! I will be more vigilent and do it every week for a while. The quicks are quite long so I couldnt get his nails less than 1cm at the moment. And some nails are black so I hate doing those nails.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

*Wtf*

There is one thing to having dirty little secrets in the show world but cutting the nails like I see handlers do is sickening to me and frankly abusive..... they will cut back half or more of the growth, imagine?? Pet or show dog - no dog should endure that! :afraid: I have seen "well known" dogs with blood stains and clotting.......ugh. 

Dremel every few days you CAN get them short without causing your DOG pet OR show pain. 

Not all handlers do this....I would find one that did not if I chose that route. Just because people do it does not make it OK.


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## savedoggies (May 23, 2011)

Melodyp77 said:


> we don't want showing to hurt but to be fun.


Totally agree, let the show be fun, not a nightmare. 

PS The dremel is a lifesaver!


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