# How do you deal with unbearable frustration?



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

You all need a time out, your pup is an adolescent and will grow out of that as far as the sensitive stomach, upset stomach. Belly pain can bea sign of food intolerance and it is uncomfortable.
Take you pup to the vet for that upset belly and go from there


----------



## buddyrose (Jul 27, 2011)

Wow. That's a lot of frustration. FYI, it takes MONTHS of training to get used to commands and crating etc. How many times did you have to say your Alphabet before you knew all the letters, right? In a world where everything is immediate and we're used to instant gratification, training is hard. I'll admit I feel your frustration myself many days

First thing is what are you feeding her? And is it dry, wet or combination? What treats are you giving her. Not all pet food is created equal. Food and Stress are two reasons dogs have sensitive stomachs. You can always compare the different foods on Dog Food Reviews and Ratings | Dog Food Advisor.

2nd: Training needs to be practiced every day in order for it to all of a sudden 'click'. My tpoo is now 10 months old and she can Sit, Stay/Down but I'm still working on "Come Here." Poodles are really smart but 8 months old is a baby. So what I do is throughout the day, I'll practice training for maybe a minute ... literally not more than a minute. Walk around the house with treats broken up into tiny bits and call: SIT. When she sits, I say: GOOD GIRL, HEAD RUB, TREAT. It eventually begins to sink in.

3rd: Crating. Dogs are pack animals. Did you acclimate her to her crate so it was a pleasant, fun experience? Are you crating her in a space where she is alone? That's stressful for a pack animal. You're her Alpha. Pack animals need to be near their people. Can you bring the crate into your bedroom so she knows she's not alone? BTW, animals don't "cry wolf" or fake it. Dogs cry from Stress, Separation Anxiety, Pain, and if they have to go to the bathroom and don't want to soil their den. 

I used to read alot and watch videos. There's a ton of great information out there. Here's an easy to read, simple to do guide to crating:








Crate Training a Puppy


A crate is an essential tool for potty training, and so much more. Here's how to introduce a crate to your puppy so they see it as a happy place.




www.thefarmersdog.com





For videos, I like this trainer, Zak George because he's nice. But YouTube has lots of videos so if you don't like him, do a search. They all make a living selling. Mostly, it's annoying. Sometimes it's just what I'm looking to buy. Ha.
1st video is about getting a pup used to their crate. Second is Sit Stay:


----------



## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

It sounds as though your family and your dog do indeed need outside help. Perhaps from a certified trainer or behaviorist.

There are no quick answers, but just like a vet visit, we need more of a history to be of any help. Without actually seeing your situation, help from PF is limited.

If you want to keep your dog and can afford it, ask your vet for recommendations. A trained pro needs to evaluate your situation and make recommendations.


----------



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Excellent advice above. I’ll just add: Around that age, Peggy outgrew her crate _and_ went into heat. Both can cause restlessness at night. Rather than framing it as “crying wolf,” trust that your girl is telling you she can’t get into a deep sleep and help her solve the problem.

Peggy’s an average-sized female spoo and is very comfortable in a 48” crate.


----------



## Fluffy Poodle 4 (Nov 29, 2020)

We all know poodles are smart. This means they are fast learners and can master simple behaviors with only a few repetitions. This also means they get bored after a few repetitions and will check out. That is also what makes the approach buddyrose mentioned (training for a minute at a time several times a day) more effective. Your puppy will be more cooperative in 5 separate minute-long sessions than it will be in a single 5 minute session. Also, try to mix up the tasks you are asking her to do (sit, down, stand, come, etc) so she doesn't expect the same thing every time. So, one time, you might ask her to sit, down, sit, and come. The next time you might ask for a down, come, down, sit.


----------



## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I have had years of frustration with my Spoo, Buck! Join the club! Mostly training, because I’m a novice and he always finds the weak links. Not unbearable because he’s a great dog, but I have had to figure him/us out without going crazy or throwing in the towel. Dogs are stoic with pain, so if you think there may be a medical issue, get a full work up, ask your vet if an allergist or other specialist should be considered. I am a strong believer in vet specialists for getting to the cause and cure 🙏🏼 of issues. Buck did fake “needing to go out” with the bells we had on the back door. Hugs and best wishes.


----------



## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

Without more details or a better idea of your routine and your expectations it's going to be hard to give you specific advice, but you've gotten some good general advice above. Nothing you can read on the internet will be as good as working with a certified trainer, especially if you're already very frustrated. Frustration is a major block to meaningful progress because it makes it hard to be creative, consistent, and patient. Most of us have been there, and we all work through it differently.

Around that age Evelyn seemed to have forgotten every command I'd ever taught him and seemed like he was testing me on every little thing. I got very frustrated until I realized that was pointless and got back with the program. I adjusted my expectations and reverted to treating him like it did when I first got him and he came back around, and I haven't had a real problem with him since. We tend to expect dogs to mature as fast as their bodies grow, they don't. They go through phases and have setbacks just like children do. A standard poodle is a puppy maturity wise for the first 2-3 years. They go through various phases during those three years and it'll seem like one step forward three steps back at times, but it can help to keep track of their development and all the pressures they are feeling at those periods. Right now her body is changing, she's getting more aware of her surroundings, and developing a sense of self. It's going to be harder for her to focus on You and what You want when there's so much going on with Her. Frankly most of the things we want aren't important from a dog's perspective and it makes sense that they would want to be paid. If someone was constantly ordering me around I would bite them, but I'm not as awesome as a poodle. Evelyn is best paid with affection and kibble. Your dog may take something different. 

Evelyn also had a sensitive tummy at that age and as a high value treat I personally swear by those tiny 1 to 2 calorie training treats by Pet Botanics because they're small but pungent and flavorful enough that I can give him one or two without it having too much of an impact on his tummy. But you should still consult your vet about her getting sick to make sure there isn't a health problem. 

Also around this age Evelyn suddenly hated his crate and started screaming in it, I went out and bought a bigger crate and he stopped. Might be your poodle's issue, might not. She may just be done being in a box at night for any variety of reasons, might be best to figure out a compromise that lets you sleep through the night.


----------



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

It sounds like maybe your dog needs more stimulation / exercise. Bored dogs will be harder to contain. 

Also, please see a vet and investigation food intolerances. They can be painful and it takes a long time to get to the bottom of it,


----------



## TheBoldBear (Oct 18, 2021)

Thanks for the responses. Perhaps I should clarify that we had great success with her crate training until about a month ago. In fact, sleeping through the night was something she did well. The sleepless nights are the icing on the cake at the end of a day full of refusal to do things. 

I've watched countless videos, read dozens of books, and found so much contradictory advice in the internet, and from vets. It can leave one rather exasperated.

Perhaps I worded things a bit too severely... I needed to vent somewhere and assumed others here would understand.


----------



## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

TheBoldBear said:


> Thanks for the responses. Perhaps I should clarify that we had great success with her crate training until about a month ago. In fact, sleeping through the night was something she did well. The sleepless nights are the icing on the cake at the end of a day full of refusal to do things.
> 
> I've watched countless videos, read dozens of books, and found so much contradictory advice in the internet, and from vets. It can leave one rather exasperated.
> 
> Perhaps I worded things a bit too severely... I needed to vent somewhere and assumed others here would understand.


Definitely feel free to vent. Here's fine or there's a whole thread devoted to adolescent poodle frustrations. I recently started a thread in the other animals section devoted to Puppy Crimes, because my younger (non-poodle) dog is a criminal who tries my patience. Puppies can be obnoxious no matter what the breed. One of his ridiculous demands was treats for going out into the yard, which I rejected with extreme prejudice. When I ask him to sit he does it with the deliberateness of a defiant teen unless he can literally see the treats in my hand.

But the forum definitely tends to have a helper's mindset when new users pop up with a problem, so advice tends to flow readily and bluntly here. As we get further and further from the puppy blues where you regret bringing the little beast home the memories of how mad they made you fade until you can't remember your life before...I barely remember what Evelyn did that made me so frustrated. In a few years I might not remember he ever did. It's easier when you're consistently sleeping.


----------



## buddyrose (Jul 27, 2011)

TheBoldBear said:


> Thanks for the responses. Perhaps I should clarify that we had great success with her crate training until about a month ago. In fact, sleeping through the night was something she did well.
> ......
> Perhaps I worded things a bit too severely... I needed to vent somewhere and assumed others here would understand.


Ahhhh venting. Lol. We do understand venting. And you're right. You can find contradictions for every sentiment under the sun. See what resonates with you, try it out & if it works, it's a winner. If it doesn't, move on to the next idea.
My toy poodle slept fine in the beginning- through the night- and then also started crying. My feeling was that as she got to know me and bonded, sleeping in her crate away from me, made her unhappy so she cried. But who knows. She's a dog.
As they grow, they change and you have to try different things. But when they finally get to that place where they're house broken and mostly behaving, it's worth it! I love dogs especially poodles.
There was a lot of good advice. Hang in there. This too shall pass.


----------



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

TheBoldBear said:


> Perhaps I should clarify that we had great success with her crate training until about a month ago. In fact, sleeping through the night was something she did well.


How big is her crate? This is exactly what happened with Peggy.


----------



## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

Sometimes its focusing on what's going RIGHT that's helpful. Two nights ago the dog whined for 5 hours in their crate, but last night they whined for 4. Wow and hour more sleep, awesome.


----------



## TheBoldBear (Oct 18, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> How big is her crate? This is exactly what happened with Peggy.


Her crate is a 42". It looks big enough... she can pretty much stretch right out in it. But we did sense axreluctance to go in the last one before we went up a size.


----------



## TheBoldBear (Oct 18, 2021)

naybaloog said:


> Sometimes its focusing on what's going RIGHT that's helpful. Two nights ago the dog whined for 5 hours in their crate, but last night they whined for 4. Wow and hour more sleep, awesome.


This is true. I hate feeling annoyed with her because I know she isn't deliberately trying to wind me up. It would probably be a bit easier if we could be more liberal with treats, but unfortunately her stomach doesn't really allow that. Most of the time she's fine with kibble, some dog pate, and a few JR products like chickens feet etc.


----------



## I_love_dogs (May 30, 2021)

At around 6 months, Loki started getting up two to three times a night demanding to go out. I did what was suggested and went up a size. That helped for a week and he started getting up multiple times a night. When Covid came through the house, I gave in and left him out of his crate to see if that helped. All the sudden, he didn't need to go out. He also spent most of the night sleeping on the tile rather than a dog bed. He does that during the day. He also hates being confined, bad for his 8mo trick learned to open the door to his playpen. 
It could be the crate is too hot or cold. Or the puppy just hates being confined.


----------



## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

TheBoldBear said:


> Her crate is a 42". It looks big enough... she can pretty much stretch right out in it. But we did sense axreluctance to go in the last one before we went up a size.


Evelyn's crate was long enough, it just wasn't tall enough which is a difficult fix.


----------



## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

Nighttime difficulties are super frustrating and definitely make it harder to deal with everything else!

I agree that dealing with any possible health issues first is important since that could be contributing to the other things. But aside from that I do think that blowing people off is an unfortunate reality of dog adolescence and poodle intelligence ... their brains are very good at finding loopholes! It is super hard not to get frustrated! It has helped me to try to recognize that my frustration is not totally rational since teenage dogs are not scheming to misbehave but are usually doing what feels rewarding to them, which is unfortunately not always desirable to us humans. 

If you can get the sleep thing sorted out it will probably feel easier to contend with. Separately from that, going back to basics could help. I don't mean in terms of drilling training, but in terms of focusing on your bond through play and making it easy for her to get the right answer by setting boundaries. For example, my dog started ignoring me in the yard. I stopped giving her off leash opportunities to noodle around the yard unless we were doing training. If it is just going to be a short potty break, it is on leash or with a leash dragging. That helps avoid opportunities for her to practice ignoring me when it's time to go inside (and reduces frustration by preventing this happening in the cold and dark). If your puppy is toy or play motivated it might be worthwhile working those things in as rewards (like a game of tug, ball toss etc).


----------



## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

Basil was a brat and vocal during that age. It's not their intent. Hormones and adolesence. It's more "how can we do better at controling our emotions" kind of situation. I resonate 100%

Play tug in the evening and let her gnaw on bully stick every evening while you hold the other end.

Basil would do stuff like this every night --


----------



## MyMiles (Apr 21, 2012)

I could have written this. You have my sympathy. 

My 6 month old has been regressing on basically everything we've trained lately and has had bowel issues for the past 5 days to boot... so I'm working on far less sleep than usual since he's waking up every couple of hours needing/wanting to go outside.

_Everything _feels like a battle, since every decision he wants to make is usually a bad one. It's pretty well established that sleep deprivation has a significant impact on decision making and emotional states... so maintaining my role as "the adult in the room" has gotten much more difficult. 

For what it's worth - I'm in frequent contact with the vet and have a training class scheduled to begin soon. But I'm seriously considering booking him for an overnight with a trainer who does daycare and boarding from her home, not so much to train him, but for a mental break and full night's sleep for myself. 

Adolescence hit hard in my house. I swear his brain was just relocated to the sack between his legs...


----------



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

TheBoldBear said:


> This is true. I hate feeling annoyed with her because I know she isn't deliberately trying to wind me up. It would probably be a bit easier if we could be more liberal with treats, but unfortunately her stomach doesn't really allow that. Most of the time she's fine with kibble, some dog pate, and a few JR products like chickens feet etc.


Dog treats aren’t generally meant to be fed in large quantities. There’s a single-ingredient chicken jerky that Peggy tolerates well, and a single-ingredient sweet potato jerky. But for training treats I’d always recommend you make your own. It’s cheaper and healthier. Make sure they’re soft and in small manageable bites.

Buy chicken breasts on sale and boil them. Chop or shred. Freeze on a sheet pan and then store in freezer bags.

Microwave a nitrate-free turkey dog and chop it into kernel-sized pieces.

Reduced fat string cheese is another good one. Pull off tiny pieces.

Our trainer doesn’t even allow “dog treats” in classes. They can’t be fed in a high enough volume.


----------



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I’m also going to drop this here for you. 









Poodle Adolescence - Support Group


Tips? Tricks? Commiseration? Bring it on! I wasn't expecting it quite so soon, but Peggy's 26th week has brought us a whole new level of dog. Eeek! It kicked off with the worst puppy class we've ever had. Usually after a rocky start, she settles right in. But she was wild-eyed from the first...




www.poodleforum.com


----------



## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

Treats also don't always need to be meat. Evelyn loves leafy greens, broccoli, and zucchini. I also recently got my hands on some awesome dried apple slice treats that I need to replinish. Carrots are a common standby and a big whole one can give a great chewing outlet, but they're higher in sugar than other veggies. Veggies and fruits still need to be given in moderation, but varying the treat types can be helpful and they aren't as rich as meat treats can be.


----------



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Misteline said:


> Treats also don't always need to be meat. Evelyn loves leafy greens, broccoli, and zucchini. I also recently got my hands on some awesome dried apple slice treats that I need to replinish. Carrots are a common standby and a big whole one can give a great chewing outlet, but they're higher in sugar than other veggies. Veggies and fruits still need to be given in moderation, but varying the treat types can be helpful and they aren't as rich as meat treats can be.


We also use play as a reward, freedom, access, proximity.... All of these things can trump food in the right context. Definitely good to mix it up.


----------



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

TheBoldBear said:


> Her crate is a 42". It looks big enough... she can pretty much stretch right out in it. But we did sense axreluctance to go in the last one before we went up a size.


You might need to consider this is still too small for your girl. Or maybe whatever bedding you’ve got in there is too hot or not supportive enough.

Does she have access to water in her crate? This is extremely important. Does she get a healthy little bedtime snack? I’ve also found this to be essential.

Peggy gets a 1/4 cup of kibble in her crate at bedtime. We hear her munch it and then flop down with a happy sigh. Within the hour, we hear her get up to take a long drink—probably her longest of the day—and then she’s asleep until her early AM licks. After her licks, she’s asleep again until we wake her at whatever time we wake up.

Her crate is covered with a lightweight black blanket (open on the wall-side for airflow) so sunrise does not tell her it’s time to get up.


----------



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Oh! I just thought of one more thing. Peggy’s new crate had a horribly strong plasticky smell. Nothing we did would get rid of it, so my husband replaced the tray with one he made from plywood.

I left the plastic tray outside for months, just to see if the smell would eventually fade, and it never did. I can’t imagine being cooped up with a smell like that.

Might be a long shot, but something else to consider.


----------



## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

Unfortunately a lot of crates aren't really tall enough for many poodles imo. Imagine spending long stretches of time in a box only just barely tall enough for you to stand up straight, yeah you can lay down and sleep, but would that really be enough? Especially when you can't get out and stretch whenever you want?

I wouldn't consider Ev particularly tall for a poodle, but I still wasn't completely satisfied with the height of his 48" crate.


----------



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Misteline said:


> Unfortunately a lot of crates aren't really tall enough for many poodles imo. Imagine spending long stretches of time in a box only just barely tall enough for you to stand up straight, yeah you can lay down and sleep, but would that really be enough? Especially when you can't get out and stretch whenever you want?
> 
> I wouldn't consider Ev particularly tall for a poodle, but I still wasn't completely satisfied with the height of his 48" crate.


Peggy’s 48” crate is 32” tall. That’s tall enough for her to stand (even with a supportive crate pad), but, more importantly, it’s long enough for her to stretch out while laying down.

I think any smaller than that would only be suitable for short-term use.

We’d originally planned to transition her away from the crate at night, but she overwhelmingly prefers it. She was _not_ a happy poodle post-spay when we forced her to to sleep with us.  But we’ve always positively reinforced it and never ever forced her to go inside. We had a strict household rule about that when she was younger: You never ever “put” the poodle in the crate. She had to make the choice to go inside.


----------



## MyMiles (Apr 21, 2012)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Rather than framing it as “crying wolf,” trust that your girl is telling you she can’t get into a deep sleep and help her solve the problem.


This has been mostly true with Elmer's recent bowel issues. In the interest of getting a few more minutes of sleep, I've decided not to fight it if he's willing to lay down on the couch or my bed. 

One night this week, he seemed much more comfortable sitting up on the couch, snoozing with his head resting on the back, before laying down, propped up on a pillow. Another night, he moved between the floor, couch, and his open crate. I assume some stomach cramps were making it difficult to settle. When I let him choose where to sleep, there was much less fussing and we had some longer periods between trips outside. 

I'm sure this could lead to some pushback against the crate/pen when he's feeling better, but my sleep deprived 3am self has decided to let 'future me' deal with that issue.


----------



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I think if a dog has had a panicky, possibly even poopy episode in a crate, that’s a perfectly valid reason to be a little anxious in there. Giving them some space from the crate while they recover can actually protect the crate as a safe space, rather than poisoning it with more bad experiences.

We recently travelled with Peggy, and the first night she was too anxious to settle in the crate. I kept her in there because “routine,” but quickly realized I was running the risk of making it an unhappy place for her. So for a couple of nights she slept on the bed. And then, once she’d settled into the travel groove, we resumed the crate routine and she was _very_ happy about it.


----------



## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Basil_the_Spoo said:


> Basil was a brat and vocal during that age. It's not their intent!
> 
> Basil would do stuff like this every night --


^^Yes, Yes, Yes! THIS^^ Especially after he eats in the evening! Gotta give them some attention or they'll get pushy!


----------



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

94Magna_Tom said:


> ^^Yes, Yes, Yes! THIS^^ Especially after he eats in the evening! Gotta give them some attention or they'll get pushy!


Yep! In the adolescent days it was some backyard zoomies and training-disguised-as-play followed by a quiet chew (unconfined if she could handle the freedom, but generally in her pen).

Now it’s a training session that’s long enough to feed 1/2 - 3/4 cup of kibble by hand, piece by piece. Peggy lives for these evening training sessions and often flops down afterwards, like she’s run a marathon.

It’s a delicate balance. Poodles need the opportunity to stretch their legs, but you’re unlikely to exercise away the evening restlessness. In fact, it’s just as likely to leave them even _more_ amped up. That’s why this is one situation where anthropomorphizing can be helpful. Do you take a cranky toddler for a jog?


----------



## that_poodle_noodle (Jul 24, 2020)

TheBoldBear said:


> This is true. I hate feeling annoyed with her because I know she isn't deliberately trying to wind me up. It would probably be a bit easier if we could be more liberal with treats, but unfortunately her stomach doesn't really allow that. Most of the time she's fine with kibble, some dog pate, and a few JR products like chickens feet etc.


I noticed you mentioned JR products so I just thought I’d throw in that Noodle used to have a problem of being sick in the middle of the night and when we sifted through the sick (a delightful job, I know) we found some of the JR pure training treats we’d given her, still whole in there - she clearly hadn’t chewed them so they couldn’t digest and came up as sick.

We’ve also had a similar issue with some hard biscuit dental sticks, which made me wonder if it could be the fact that they’re hard and dry which makes them sit in her stomach and come back later. So I now only buy semi-moist treats for her (Wainwright’s do some that she likes which you can get from Pets at Home) and, fingers crossed, she hasn’t been sick since.

Just to clarify though, it was only the treats that caused this - her normal kibble goes down absolutely fine even when dry.


----------



## PennyDog (Dec 23, 2021)

I can totally relate to the phrase “unbearable frustration”! I got through that age with Penny by taking her to the park in the morning for 1-2 hours on a long leash (30 ft I think) and harness. She got to run hard, chase toys, see people go by, do zoomies, and practice recalls for bits of chicken breast. It’s not recommended to do forced exercise at that age so I let her choose what kind of crazy she wanted to do. But she definitely needed a lot of exercise. When she got home she was a tired, happy, compliant puppy. Now that she’s two she is able to settle and listen without so much exercise. It definitely gets better with age.
I also remember expecting potty training to be over at that age, and then realizing that Penny actually did need one last late night potty.
One last thing: I don’t think it’s possible to post on Poodle Forum without receiving help and suggestions. I think it’s awesome.


----------



## buddyrose (Jul 27, 2011)

TheBoldBear said:


> This is true. I hate feeling annoyed with her because I know she isn't deliberately trying to wind me up. It would probably be a bit easier if we could be more liberal with treats, but unfortunately her stomach doesn't really allow that. Most of the time she's fine with kibble, some dog pate, and a few JR products like chickens feet etc.


Hi. Try PureBites freeze dried chicken breast for treats. One ingredient cooked clean. I call it crack for dogs. 








Limited Ingredient Freeze Dried Dog Treats | PureBites


Browse all PureBites Freeze Dried Dog Treats. All with only 1 to 3 ingredients. Great for limited ingredient options and hypoallergenic for dogs with allergies.




purebites.com




What kibble are you feeding her? My last dog lived on Wellness. This pup likes Merrick better. They're both good dog companies. This is where a Vet may be able to help. I mentioned already but will repeat again, stress can cause sensitive stomachs. I hope you figure it out for you, your wife and your pup. It's frustrating, for sure.


----------



## TheBoldBear (Oct 18, 2021)

She's currently on Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy food (dry). I did a lot of research, and it seemed good, but I still see people saying it isn't a good food. Normally she doesn't have problems on that, although I usally have to jazz it up with something. We just starred with purebites actually; appreciate the info


----------



## TheBoldBear (Oct 18, 2021)

PennyDog said:


> I can totally relate to the phrase “unbearable frustration”! I got through that age with Penny by taking her to the park in the morning for 1-2 hours on a long leash (30 ft I think) and harness. She got to run hard, chase toys, see people go by, do zoomies, and practice recalls for bits of chicken breast. It’s not recommended to do forced exercise at that age so I let her choose what kind of crazy she wanted to do. But she definitely needed a lot of exercise. When she got home she was a tired, happy, compliant puppy. Now that she’s two she is able to settle and listen without so much exercise. It definitely gets better with age.
> I also remember expecting potty training to be over at that age, and then realizing that Penny actually did need one last late night potty.
> One last thing: I don’t think it’s possible to post on Poodle Forum without receiving help and suggestions. I think it’s awesome.


I think we over exercised her previously in an attempt to calm her down... she would crash out and then wake up later as if we never took her out! Its amazing how she'll just keep hoing and going some days. There must be an off switch somewhere....


----------



## Bailey_Whiskey (Jan 18, 2021)

I just had flashbacks of 8 month old Whiskey being his obnoxious whiny teenage self with his explosive diarrhea 🤣
He also kept letting himself out of his sleeping pen at night so we decided to do away with it after a few very vocal nights and mornings. He has never howled at night ever since, and has not gotten into trouble at night. Was probably his way of saying “I’m a big boy now”.

Trust us, it gets better with time. Those memories are so far and faded now. All I see now is a 16 month Whiskey, eager to please but still has his sensitive digestion issues.


----------



## TheBoldBear (Oct 18, 2021)

Bailey_Whiskey said:


> I just had flashbacks of 8 month old Whiskey being his obnoxious whiny teenage self with his explosive diarrhea 🤣
> He also kept letting himself out of his sleeping pen at night so we decided to do away with it after a few very vocal nights and mornings. He has never howled at night ever since, and has not gotten into trouble at night. Was probably his way of saying “I’m a big boy now”.
> 
> Trust us, it gets better with time. Those memories are so far and faded now. All I see now is a 16 month Whiskey, eager to please but still has his sensitive digestion issues.


That's good to hear. People keep telling us it gets better after a couple of years... but that feels a long way off when things are as they are now. We've considered leaving the crate door open to give her more freedom, as the kitchen is puppy proof. Can't decide if thats a good idea or not.


----------



## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Treats with glycerin give Misha soft stools. I try to avoid them. I use a special soft-baked kibble for most treats. Chicken for high value. Hopefully you will find a routine that fits her. Mine needs a late night walk to be able to settle. Not strenuous exercise, just a chance to get out and about. Just find what works for your dog. It may take some time to find the best routine. But poodles learn routines very easily.


----------



## Nana06 (Oct 18, 2021)

TheBoldBear said:


> We've considered leaving the crate door open to give her more freedom, as the kitchen is puppy proof. Can't decide if thats a good idea or not.


So at night we leave Wellie’s crate door open. But his crate is IN his playpen (which takes half of our living room). He prefers it that way because he can drink/ stretch/ walk around during the night if needed. I think it might be worth a try!


----------



## Bailey_Whiskey (Jan 18, 2021)

Don’t be afraid to try! We were and we lost a few nights sleep trying to keep Whiskey in his pen.


----------



## janeoswaks (Aug 29, 2016)

TheBoldBear said:


> My wife and I have an 8 month old female spoo. She only seems to listen or obey when she feels like it. It's better when we use high value treats, but she seems to have a sensitive stomach and vomits and has soft stools easily. That makes us reluctant to feed treats at night, when she often gets restless.
> 
> Everything seems to be a massive battle, because of her resistance, and the frustration is making us both miserable. Added to that she has been barking in her crate between 1am and 5am fir the last week... once or twice ut was due to being sick, other times crying wolf.
> 
> Not sure how we're going to cope with it. If anyone has any helpful advice, I'm all ears.....


----------



## dAnderson (Sep 6, 2021)

Oonapup said:


> Nighttime difficulties are super frustrating and definitely make it harder to deal with everything else!
> 
> I agree that dealing with any possible health issues first is important since that could be contributing to the other things. But aside from that I do think that blowing people off is an unfortunate reality of dog adolescence and poodle intelligence ... their brains are very good at finding loopholes! It is super hard not to get frustrated! It has helped me to try to recognize that my frustration is not totally rational since teenage dogs are not scheming to misbehave but are usually doing what feels rewarding to them, which is unfortunately not always desirable to us humans.
> 
> If you can get the sleep thing sorted out it will probably feel easier to contend with. Separately from that, going back to basics could help. I don't mean in terms of drilling training, but in terms of focusing on your bond through play and making it easy for her to get the right answer by setting boundaries. For example, my dog started ignoring me in the yard. I stopped giving her off leash opportunities to noodle around the yard unless we were doing training. If it is just going to be a short potty break, it is on leash or with a leash dragging. That helps avoid opportunities for her to practice ignoring me when it's time to go inside (and reduces frustration by preventing this happening in the cold and dark). If your puppy is toy or play motivated it might be worthwhile working those things in as rewards (like a game of tug, ball toss etc).


My standard male, Remy, just turned six months old. He’s been sleeping out of the crate for at least a month. The crate was getting a little small and he just wouldn’t go in it so we decided not to get a bigger one but see if he could be trusted free in the bedroom. So far so good. He slept through the night by 10 weeks. For the past month he has been starting some of the adolescent behavior of ignoring commands, counter surfing, and joyfully stealing objects he is not supposed to have. Mostly he’s a whole lot of fun. Now and then he goes into spasms are frantically barking and jumping at me for no apparent reason, at least to me. That is the most upsetting thing he does. Eventually I can get him to sit and look at me and calm down. Ignoring him does no good as he just follows and continues the action. I’m open to any suggestions on how to stop that behavior. Thanks .


----------



## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Let me just say "UGH! Went into Heat!" that can throw everything off!


----------



## buddyrose (Jul 27, 2011)

TheBoldBear said:


> My wife and I have an 8 month old female spoo. She only seems to listen or obey when she feels like it. It's better when we use high value treats, but she seems to have a sensitive stomach and vomits and has soft stools easily. That makes us reluctant to feed treats at night, when she often gets restless.
> 
> Everything seems to be a massive battle, because of her resistance, and the frustration is making us both miserable. Added to that she has been barking in her crate between 1am and 5am fir the last week... once or twice ut was due to being sick, other times crying wolf.
> 
> Not sure how we're going to cope with it. If anyone has any helpful advice, I'm all ears.....


I remembered something about sensitive stomach issues with my pup. There were a couple months where she was puking several times a week, mostly at night. I'd go through it to see what was there and I'd find a bird feather, a bit of plastic, some chewed wicker off my baskets ... things that can't be digested. Is it possible when you're not around her she's eating things she shouldn't? Puppies go through a phase of putting everything in their mouth whenever we blink. I forgot about that because Ginger is older and better at not eating everything.


----------



## TuttoBene (Apr 23, 2021)

I second the “needs more stimulation”. Our Standard Poodle, Tutto, was enrolled in fun classes including puppy agility for fun, Puppy obedience , NoseWork. I found that mental challenges like puzzles and problem solving tired him out as much as physical activities. A new toy a week (used or found ..it doesn’t have to be new) was worth introducing. We are getting through adolescence by keeping him busy. He received his CGC title at 10 months. We started learning about Rally last night. Some parents of kids have to sign their kids up for sports to keep them out of mischief. We’ve taken this approach.


----------



## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Oh I feel your pain. My boy was a handful. He is now 4 and a really good boy. He was crate trained. We started with using the dividers and kept increasing his space as he grew. He has a 48 inch crate. I can't remember now but I think around 2 he no longer liked his crate though he still slept thru the night but as time went on he behaved more and more like your girl. Poodles sleep in crazy positions. My front foyer/dingroom is his daytime space as thats is where I usually am, its set up as a tv room/and my computer is also set up there. So its gated to keep in in here with me, has been this way forever. My husband had balance issues and I was afraid Renn would knock him down as there was nothing gentle with him running thru the house. Finally he just refused his crate so I left him in this room overnight. That worked for sometime until he decided he wanted to be with me. So now he sleeps in the bedroom at night either in my bed or on the floor Usually I kick him out to the floor as he doesn't like being disturbed while in a deep sleep and I toss and turn all night. He will sleep until whenever I get up for good. It took a long long time. I now have a rescue 2nd poodle He is a bit more of a challenge in different ways. He does not like the crate at all unless the door is iopen then he will go in and sleep, we have a primo crate pad in it, which has tie downs so no puppy we have had has pulled it up or destroyed it. Its on dog #3. Lots of toys scattered around, marrow bones, hooves. That all keeps him happy, at night he sleeps in bed with my daughter. I also have a treat wobble container that I put some of his kibble in, so if he gets bored he noses it around and kibble drops out. He seems to have some tummy issues as well and not sure what that is about yet. Presently on science diet ID to get him straight. I think his issues come from pizzle chews and certain treats. But that is a issue in progress. My dogs did not need more stimulation or exercise, it only ramped them up more. They get a hour here or there of off leash running/playing in the backyard then all they want to do is sleep. Sorry for the long post but they are amazing dogs and it does get better.


----------



## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

dAnderson said:


> My standard male, Remy, just turned six months old. He’s been sleeping out of the crate for at least a month. The crate was getting a little small and he just wouldn’t go in it so we decided not to get a bigger one but see if he could be trusted free in the bedroom. So far so good. He slept through the night by 10 weeks. For the past month he has been starting some of the adolescent behavior of ignoring commands, counter surfing, and joyfully stealing objects he is not supposed to have. Mostly he’s a whole lot of fun. Now and then he goes into spasms are frantically barking and jumping at me for no apparent reason, at least to me. That is the most upsetting thing he does. Eventually I can get him to sit and look at me and calm down. Ignoring him does no good as he just follows and continues the action. I’m open to any suggestions on how to stop that behavior. Thanks .


What is the context for when he does this behavior? It may seem like there is no apparent reason but there is probably a pattern. Does he do it in a specific place or time, after something exciting (for him) happens - like during or after play, or after seeing a dog out on a walk? Does it happen after he has been awake for a long time or at the end of the day? Once you have an idea what the pattern is, you can begin to manage it by removing opportunities to do it. You might not be able to stop it 100% of the time but you can at least reduce the times he gets to rehearse it. Forced naps can help a lot. Having a routine can help as well. Ie, come in from afternoon walk and it's time for adults to prep dinner. Rather than just let him roam free to get into trouble, give him the treat ball to roll around, or take a chew to the crate. Or maybe it's a regular nap. Whatever it is, having him know what to expect and what is expected of him is what you want.
When he does do the barking and jumping thing you can leave the room (provided he's in a safe place) or give him a time out in his crate for 30s-3 mins. Removing attention or freedom is usually pretty powerful. Search "arousal" and "impulse control" and you might find good games for helping him build the ability control himself a little more on his end.


----------



## Meganf1027 (Oct 22, 2018)

I have been going to a trainer with my 1 year old for the last few months and it has helped A LOT (for me and her).
She is very picky as well, and treats eventually lost all value to her and she’d just ignore me and the treat. So her trainer had me stop using treats all together and start hand feeding. So I used kibble to train and if she wasn’t interested- she’d go in the crate 5 minutes. It took a while, but her motivation went up so much and she actually started paying attention to me. I’ve phased treats back in now, and she’s very excited for them. 
i hit a point of frustration too and that’s when I hired the trainer. Group lessons weren’t working and she was starting some bad habits.. so if you can, I highly recommend it!









TheBoldBear said:


> My wife and I have an 8 month old female spoo. She only seems to listen or obey when she feels like it. It's better when we use high value treats, but she seems to have a sensitive stomach and vomits and has soft stools easily. That makes us reluctant to feed treats at night, when she often gets restless.
> 
> Everything seems to be a massive battle, because of her resistance, and the frustration is making us both miserable. Added to that she has been barking in her crate between 1am and 5am fir the last week... once or twice ut was due to being sick, other times crying wolf.
> 
> Not sure how we're going to cope with it. If anyone has any helpful advice, I'm all ears.....


----------



## karosparrow (May 16, 2021)

TheBoldBear said:


> My wife and I have an 8 month old female spoo. She only seems to listen or obey when she feels like it. It's better when we use high value treats, but she seems to have a sensitive stomach and vomits and has soft stools easily. That makes us reluctant to feed treats at night, when she often gets restless.
> 
> Everything seems to be a massive battle, because of her resistance, and the frustration is making us both miserable. Added to that she has been barking in her crate between 1am and 5am fir the last week... once or twice ut was due to being sick, other times crying wolf.
> 
> Not sure how we're going to cope with it. If anyone has any helpful advice, I'm all ears.....


Hi there! 
I have a 9 mo. old spoo. She is A LOT of dog and she lets us know it. Since about 8 months she's started another fear stage. This time she's bigger, seems to have forgotten commands and has more needs. I was warned that the period of 8-12 months may be the most trying. Ah teenagers!

One observation that I've had about my spoo's behavior is that she is a lot calmer after 3, 30-45 minutes walks a day. This may include off leash time (but she doesn't have recall down so it's always a gamble and I stay in fenced in areas ie: local dog park, or tennis courts where we fetch balls). She is more likely to sleep through the night when very well exercised. We play catch in the house cause she gets the zoomies in the evening. That time is joyful and we incorporate rewards like praise or her toys for fetching. 

My poodle kinda runs my life. I enjoy it but it took a lot of adjustment and continued adjustments.

Good luck and vent away!


----------



## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Oops!


----------



## TheBoldBear (Oct 18, 2021)

Thanks for all the replies. After a night of her sleeping right through last night, I'm feeling a lot less frustrated. Its amazing how sleep deprivation can affect you. We'll probably use the bigger crate (we already got a 48" in anticipation of her growing) soon, and possibly leave the door open.

I see a lot of people mention enforced naps... we've never managed to accomplish that. We tried getting her to go in the crate, but she rarely settled down in there during the day. She does take naps throughout the day, but like most things, they're on her terms!

How do you go about enforcing nap times? We have chew toys, wobblers, puzzles etc to leave in the crate with her, if needed- but she usually wont touch them.


----------



## Meganf1027 (Oct 22, 2018)

When I was enforcing maps, she’d go in the crate and I would cover most of it with a blanket, play some white noise and usually I put nothing in there (mainly because the blanket and I couldn’t see if she were to choke on anything). I also practiced relaxation protocol with her as she got older to teach her how to just relax on her own! Basically put a leash on while you work or watch tv, and don’t give a verbal command, but when they choose to lay down- reward it. 



TheBoldBear said:


> Thanks for all the replies. After a night of her sleeping right through last night, I'm feeling a lot less frustrated. Its amazing how sleep deprivation can affect you. We'll probably use the bigger crate (we already got a 48" in anticipation of her growing) soon, and possibly leave the door open.
> 
> I see a lot of people mention enforced naps... we've never managed to accomplish that. We tried getting her to go in the crate, but she rarely settled down in there during the day. She does take naps throughout the day, but like most things, they're on her terms!
> 
> How do you go about enforcing nap times? We have chew toys, wobblers, puzzles etc to leave in the crate with her, if needed- but she usually wont touch them.


----------



## TheBoldBear (Oct 18, 2021)

Thanks... thats essentially what we've tried to do. Perhaps I haven't been consistent enough at rewarding calm behaviour.


----------



## karosparrow (May 16, 2021)

Does your poodle like the sound of laughter? Mine does. She has a real sense of humor. Sometimes doing tough things requires a laughing voice to cajole her. It lightens my mood and the general mood too.


----------



## TheBoldBear (Oct 18, 2021)

I haven't noticed, perhaps I'll try it. Although I do know that last nights 10 minute zoomies turned into 20 mins once she realised she waa making us howl with laughter. Stealing my underwear always makes her so happy!


----------



## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Elroy is very responsive to my tone. I always keep a happy training voice when trying to teach him anything, when playing, or just talking to him about little nothings. This also makes my stern voice really stand out for those times I want to express displeasure in what he's doing (or about to do).


----------

