# Vaccination: vet wants to do only as package



## SammyG (Oct 12, 2016)

My spoo puppy is 14 weeks old. Breeder did parvo+distemper vaccine at 9 weeks. We picked him up at 10 weeks and had vet appointment a few days later. Everything was fine and vet wanted to do his 2nd parvo+distemper vaccine at that time. We explained that the breeder and we follow Jean Dodds vaccination protocol and we would like to comeback at 14 weeks for it. She said OK.
This morning I took Shane for his 2nd shot and to my surprise found out that not only they bundle parvo+distemper vaccine with 4-5 other ones, but also include rabies. It's all in one vaccine, and they can't (won't) administer parvo+distemper only. I don't want additional vaccines, and definitely don't want rabies now and in the bundle, so I left. They said that I can comeback for Rabies vaccine as a stand alone later. Vet also said that they no longer administer stand alone vaccines, and won't administer it if I buy it online and bring it to them.

I called a few other vets, got same answers. I can buy 
parvo+distemper online (Solo-Jec 5 Plus, 5 Way - DA2PPv: Revival Animal Health) and probably try to do it myself. The thing is that vet won't recognize it and those vaccines won't be in my puppy health history which can be an issue for classes / boarding.

So, what do you guys suggest I do?


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

See if you can find a holistic vet. I think they seem to get it. And you were right to walk out when it was suggested to do rabies with the others. That is soooo dangerous deadly. I hope you can find someone who is on the same page with you. Let us know.


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## Lori G (Sep 19, 2014)

Yes, I'd keep calling till I found the right vet. I can't believe they were wanting to do rabies on top of it!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

SammyG said:


> My spoo puppy is 14 weeks old. Breeder did parvo+distemper vaccine at 9 weeks. We picked him up at 10 weeks and had vet appointment a few days later. Everything was fine and vet wanted to do his 2nd parvo+distemper vaccine at that time. We explained that the breeder and we follow Jean Dodds vaccination protocol and we would like to comeback at 14 weeks for it. She said OK.
> This morning I took Shane for his 2nd shot and to my surprise found out that not only they bundle parvo+distemper vaccine with 4-5 other ones, but also include rabies. It's all in one vaccine, and they can't (won't) administer parvo+distemper only. I don't want additional vaccines, and definitely don't want rabies now and in the bundle, so I left. They said that I can comeback for Rabies vaccine as a stand alone later. Vet also said that they no longer administer stand alone vaccines, and won't administer it if I buy it online and bring it to them.
> 
> I called a few other vets, got same answers. I can buy
> ...


When I choose a vet, the most important thing to me is that, even if the vet doesn't share my exact same feelings about vaccination, etc., that they are willing to let me make the decisions that I want to make for my pet. So, I seek their professional medical opinion, but I decide what is and is not done to my dog. Nobody will vaccinate my dog with anything that I don't specifically say I want, exactly when I want it. My vets are absolutely wonderful to work with, and I haven't run into any issues with establishing this type of relationship with them. I am up front about it. There have been a few vet practices I have left over the years because I had a hard time establishing this type of relationship, or because their beliefs were too drastically different from mine that there was a lot of tension. I like a vet who can at least understand and respect where I come from, and I can understand and respect their knowledge and expertise.

If your vet will not vaccinate according to your desired protocol (which sounds like a very well educated one), I think you will need to find a new vet who will be a better fit for you. I would expect that if they are inflexible on that, they may be inflexible on many other things, which could lead to a rocky relationship. A good relationship with your vet is so important. 

My vet practice gives the DA2PPV. They only add in other vaccines (lepto, etc.) if requested by the client. I purchase Distemper + Parvo only vaccines (Nobivac DPV - comes in a pack of 25). My fabulous vet administers these vaccines that I purchase to my puppies at 9 weeks before they go home. Then, I bring back whoever I have kept for another DPV at around 13 weeks, and around 17 weeks. I do have my vet give their own 3 year DA2PPV vaccine when my own puppy is a year old, and then I titer starting at age 4.

That's a shame that you have called other vet practices and they have said the same. One question, are you speaking with the receptionist or the actual vet? I have found that vet receptionists are usually more frustrating than actual vets to speak with especially in regard to individualized vaccine protocols. Is there a holistic vet nearby?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Oh! I see you live in DC area. Hopefully Verve Poodles will chime in with some vet recommendations!


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

Where are you in the DC area? I live in the District and can help you find a vet that respects your preferences. I use Rocky Gorge in Laurel as my main vet (I breed, and use different vets for OFA hips, etc.). I like Dr. Wolchinsky not because we agree about everything, but because he listens and we agree on a plan. When I took my litter for their 8 week vet checks, I took the vaccine that I had ordered from Revival (parvo-distemper only) and he administered it for free. There are other vets in the area I feel comfortable recommending.


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## SammyG (Oct 12, 2016)

From what I researched online I can buy parvo / distemper (5 in 1) vaccine, but there is no stand alone parvo MLV which Dr. Dodds recommends at 18 weeks. So should same combo be administered at 18 weeks instead?

I also found out that Vetco (at Petco) does vaccinations for "Distemper/Parvo (5 in 1) Combo" which is the same type as Canine Spectra 5 or Solo-Jec 5 Plus:
https://www.vetcoclinics.com/services-and-clinics/vaccination-packages-and-prices/


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Most 'feed stores' like Tractor Supply sell single dose Distemper and Parvo Vaccines also....
Then you just have to find a Vet to administer them ... (I am a retired Tech so I do it myself).


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

SammyG said:


> From what I researched online I can buy parvo / distemper (5 in 1) vaccine, but there is no stand alone parvo MLV which Dr. Dodds recommends at 18 weeks. So should same combo be administered at 18 weeks instead?
> 
> I also found out that Vetco (at Petco) does vaccinations for "Distemper/Parvo (5 in 1) Combo" which is the same type as Canine Spectra 5 or Solo-Jec 5 Plus:
> https://www.vetcoclinics.com/services-and-clinics/vaccination-packages-and-prices/


Dr. Dodds recommends the DPV vaccine (Distemper + Parvovirus). It is Nobivac DPV and comes in a pack of 25. It can be purchased from Revival. It is NOT a 5 in 1.

The "Distemper and Parvo" vaccines at feed stores are generally going to be 5 in 1 (or more) - not actually just Distemper and Parvo. There is only one brand that makes a true "Distemper and Parvo" vaccine and that is Nobivac. 

You can also purchase Neopar (parvo) and Neovac (distemper) in single doses.

Neopar: http://www.revivalanimal.com/product/neopar-single-dose?sku=30401-306
Neovac: http://www.revivalanimal.com/product/neovac-d?sku=30402-306

Nobivac DPV: http://www.revivalanimal.com/product/progard-puppy-dpv?sku=30350-415


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

You can also titer after the parvo-distemper shot at 14-16 weeks. Dr. Schultz's lab will run titers for $25. They will also provide your vet with a monovalent vaccine for $25 if your dog shows inadequate immunity to parvo or distemper. 

https://www.vetmed.wisc.edu/lab/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2016/02/Canine-Antibody-FAQ.pdf

https://www.vetmed.wisc.edu/lab/sch...z_Laboratory_Canine_Serum_Submission_Form.pdf


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

According to Dr. Ronald Schultz, a titer test can be done at 18 weeks (assuming a final vaccine occurred no later than 16 weeks) or later, but not sooner, because residual antibodies could interfere with the results.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Im glad that you are going to find another vet that will be more open to your wishes. I just wanted to say though, that a rabies vaccine can not be included in a combination vaccine. If they give it in the same visit, that is one thing. If they really told you that it is in the same shot, then I would run away from this vet! They don't know what they are talking about then. 

Hi Verve!! :ciao:


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

bigpoodleperson said:


> Im glad that you are going to find another vet that will be more open to your wishes. I just wanted to say though, that a rabies vaccine can not be included in a combination vaccine. If they give it in the same visit, that is one thing. If they really told you that it is in the same shot, then I would run away from this vet! They don't know what they are talking about then.
> 
> Hi Verve!! :ciao:


Hi BPP!!


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

SammyG and I are coordinating to get him some parvo-distemper vaccine I have left over from my litter this summer.


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## SammyG (Oct 12, 2016)

Well, it's official. I'm changing vet as of today.

This morning Shane had a diarrhea and long thin spaghetti looking worms in his stool. So we called the vet and were there within an hour. The vet prescribed Drontal plus, gave us a box of Heartguard and pressed again about vaccine. She said that they won't be able to see us again for any follow up appointment until we do 2nd round of vaccines including rabies. I still don't get why they are so pushy, in MD rabies vaccine is required after 4 months, and Shane is not there yet. So I politely declined again and that was the last time I saw them.

As of worms, I started him on Diatomaceous Earth (1 tsp/day, he is 22 lb). Is Heartguard a good option or should I get something else?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

SammyG said:


> Well, it's official. I'm changing vet as of today.
> 
> This morning Shane had a diarrhea and long thin spaghetti looking worms in his stool. So we called the vet and were there within an hour. The vet prescribed Drontal plus, gave us a box of Heartguard and pressed again about vaccine. She said that they won't be able to see us again for any follow up appointment until we do 2nd round of vaccines including rabies. I still don't get why they are so pushy, in MD rabies vaccine is required after 4 months, and Shane is not there yet. So I politely declined again and that was the last time I saw them.
> 
> As of worms, I started him on Diatomaceous Earth (1 tsp/day, he is 22 lb). Is Heartguard a good option or should I get something else?


Very frustrating! Well, at least you are figuring this out now as opposed to later, I guess!

DE may help with the worms and Drontal definitely will.

Heartgard is good!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Are you saying this Vet refuses to treat your Dog if you do not follow HER protocol? That is SOOOO WRONG!!!! Yeah, find a new Vet!

Heartgard is good & Drontel for worming is good too! Never used DE.........


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

Those sound like roundworms, Sammy, and the Drontal will definitely help.


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## SammyG (Oct 12, 2016)

Yes, I think they are roundworms, from what I researched. The vet didn't explain what it was, how he might have got it and what should we do to prevent it, except giving the meds. The whole attitude was very unpleasant, especially after I said puppy is on raw meat and we won't do rabies vaccine now.

Anyway, puppy is doing well, I gave him some canned pumpkin, so no more diarrea, though he didn't pooped yesterday at all. But he was behaving as usual, active and playful, looks like it didn't bother him. This morning he pooped more than usual, but very nice looking poop :act-up: and no more worms so far.

We need to give him the 2nd dose of Drontal plus in 3 weeks. Is it required to kill the rest of worms that weren't killed with 1st dose?

Is it a good idea to buy some in advance online (and it's so much cheaper than getting it it from the vet) in case puppy gets worms again?

One thing I forgot to ask the vet if he is contagious. Can he play with other puppies? We have a puppy class on Saturday, I'm not sure if he can go.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

SammyG said:


> I can buy
> parvo+distemper online (Solo-Jec 5 Plus, 5 Way - DA2PPv: Revival Animal Health) and probably try to do it myself. The thing is that vet won't recognize it and those vaccines won't be in my puppy health history which can be an issue for classes / boarding.
> 
> So, what do you guys suggest I do?


I did exactly that for my cat. I think i got it from dr. foster and smith. However, I choked when it actually came time to give the vaccine. Their skin is different from humans. It seems a lot tougher to penetrate. I had to call my dad who worked with horses as a kid and is a doctor. He was the one who actually gave the cat the vaccine. lol I would not recommend this unless you've had previous experience.
t
ETA: I wouldn't give the rabies shot until older. That seems quite common. Kinda odd your vet seem unpleasant. I've had my share of unpleasant vet. When I first rescued my first dog, the vet who I took her to recommended me to do tantric yoga for my stress. CREEPY CREEPY CREEPY! I've never gone to him again after that even though he is less than .25 mile from my house. I remember wanting to use this vet because he was a holistic vet.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

> We need to give him the 2nd dose of Drontal plus in 3 weeks. Is it required to kill the rest of worms that weren't killed with 1st dose?
> 
> Is it a good idea to buy some in advance online (and it's so much cheaper than getting it it from the vet) in case puppy gets worms again?
> 
> One thing I forgot to ask the vet if he is contagious. Can he play with other puppies? We have a puppy class on Saturday, I'm not sure if he can go.


Yes, the second dose is to kill off any worms that missed it the first round (the worms are at different life stages in your dog and the meds only kill certain stages). You definitely need to do the second dose, or he will probably still have them. 

If you use the heartgard (most hw meds actually), then it will protect against heartworm, hookworm and roundworm every month. They actually have a guarantee where if you give it every month, buy it from a vet, and your pet ever comes up positive for any of those, then they will cover all testing and treatment. 
So, you shouldn't really need to have any dewormers on hand unless you want to routinely deworm them just to make sure (I personally don't as my guys are on the hw meds). I would still do a yearly fecal sample check to make sure he is negative.

He is contagious to other puppies, and even humans. It is spread though a fecal-oral route. Usually puppies get it from their mother, and they can get it by walking through your yard where a positive dog or wild animal pooped, either eating the feces or just licking their feet with the eggs on them. Just make sure to clean up your yard of all feces as he could reinfect himself, and use proper hygiene (wash your hands mainly).
He should be okay for puppy class, just try to have him defecate before class and not during class where other puppies could walk through it, and clean it up when he goes.


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## SammyG (Oct 12, 2016)

I'm sure he got it either from our yard or during walks. Our neighborhood is infested with deer, rabbits and foxes. Plus not everyone picks up their's dog's poop. It is very hard to walk him now because he sniffs and tries to lick EVERYTHING. So I would probably be taking him for a walk somewhere without much grass and other animals for a while.
I gave him his 1st Heartguard 11/3, and will continue it monthly. How soon after 1st dose Heartguard is effective?


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Heartgard will deworm within 24 hours. It doesn't last in the body, it just wipes out whatever they contracted from the last dose. Flea and tick meds will last in the body for a month working forwards until the next dose. Heartworm meds work backwards to wipe out anything they got since the previous dose.


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