# Killa's Skin Issues



## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Many of you know that Killa has been having many issues with her skin. I finally got her to the dermatologist. She wasn't much help. She did cytology on her orbit and found 1 cocci so decided she had a bacterial infection and that we couldn't go on until that was cleared up. So she wanted to do a Convenia injection (long acting antibiotic) as well as put her on Claritin and a special shampoo called Douxo Calm. With the bill already at $260 just for the exam I decided to do the Convenia at work and buy the shampoo online. We did the Convenia injection and a week later there were still no changes. The Dermatologist wanted to wait two weeks for a recheck but after week one she had gotten a lot worse. Her skin was getting thick and crusty all the way up onto her ear and she was getting more lesions on her muzzle. Not to mention she was in an extreme amount of pain. I couldn't touch that side of her face or her ear with out her screaming. So back to work with me she went. My Dr did another cytology and gave her another Convenia injection (just in case) as well as put her on a medication called Atopica. Which was what the Dermatologist was going to to if the Convenia and Claritin didn't help. The main ingredient in Atopica is cyclosporine which is an immunosuppressant. In humans it's commonly used for patients that have organ transplants to keep their body from attacking the transplanted organ. It hasn't been approved by the FDA for use in dogs under 4lbs which Killa is 3.5 lbs so I am not sure how I feel about it yet. But the real kicker is that Killa's lesions are gone! It has only been a week on the medication so Im not going to say for sure she is healed. I am really relieved that she has not been in pain this week and that she doesn't have these gross crusty sores anymore. And that her skin doesn't peel off anymore. But once again I don't know how I feel about her being on this immunosuppressant for a long time.
She is going to be on it once every day for 30 days and then we will start tapering it to see if she can go on a lower dose. I guess I need to go back to the dermatologist and follow up there. Something just keeps me from wanting to do so. Maybe because she really didn't help much and it is a long way for me to travel. If I do go back I most likely will go to the actual clinic instead of one of their satellite clinics, so I can see the lead Dermatologist. 

Has anyone here at PF had any experiences with Atopica or any of the other cyclosporine brands? 

Here is a before and after video 
Killa's Before And After Atopica - YouTube


----------



## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

I've heard that drug can work wonders on dogs with allergies but it also has a dark side. I'm so glad Killa is feeling better though. 

My neighbor's yellow lab had horrifying lesions on his face and was going through all kinds of treatments. The one thing that helped was switching him to a fish based food. I don't know Killa's history, and don't know what's been tried, but wanted to put it out there for you. I had a very allergic dog too, a Yorkie, and we gave him one cortisone shot that calmed down his skin and at the same time I switched his food to Stella and Chewey's Duck Duck Goose. He never relapsed and it's been 4 years. I hope Killa's skin stays good. 

pr


----------



## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Poodlerunner said:


> I've heard that drug can work wonders on dogs with allergies but it also has a dark side. I'm so glad Killa is feeling better though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you Poodlerunner. We did try the different food (fish based then kangaroo when fish didn't help) and that didn't help her at all. We also tried steroids three different times and types, they didn't help either or they did for a little bit but the lesions started coming back. After that we did and autoimmune panel on her and that came up negative for all sorts of autoimmune diseases. That is when I got her to the dermatologist.


----------



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Poor little Killa! She has had so much happen to her in her short life! She definitely got the right Momma though! You're the best!!!!!!


----------



## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Awww thank you MollyMuiMa. You are so sweet. ?


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Oh yes Killa has the right person for her needs, doesn't she! I hope the cyclosporine helps and can be tapered to a good low dose. I know there are concerns about opportunistic diseases when an individual is on long term immune suppressive therapy. I think you have to weigh the possibility of an adverse reaction against the known problems without an effective treatment plan to make a final decision.


----------



## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

Sorry, bit late to this thread!

Pushkin has been on Atopica for his immune problem for about 4 months (?) now and is absolutely fine with it. It didn't particularly bump his platelets up as far as we needed them but as regards side effects etc - no worries at all.

I know he's heavier than Killa, but if it is having such a good effect I'd stick with it. As long as she's having blood tests to check that her liver and such are okay I'd just be pleased she's more comfortable. 

If you research any drug you will find negatives... absolutely all drugs have them ... but you need to weigh up that with the benefits of treatment (just my opinion).

We took the attitude that he's okay _now_, and if he has problems in the future we will deal with them then but we're not borrowing problems that might not happen. 

Hope the wonderful Killa continues to improve!!


----------



## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Stella has an apt with a dermatologist the 3rd of Oct. I have to drive 4 hours , I hope it will be worth my time and money. 

Stella was doing great with the Kangaroo food, but now back to being itchy. She doesn't have any sores, but red patches on her skin I can see only when she is wet.

Her last owner was giving her steroid shots every few months. I have had her 2 years without giving her any steroids. It is so hard to know what to do .

I would hate to see her get worse. I am so afraid of all these meds. Any tips?


----------



## Dapple (Sep 16, 2013)

Have you considered a raw diet? I know you must have tried everything by now. I found this helped my old senior dobe. Changed her body condition almost immediately.


----------



## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I did a raw diet for a few months, it seemed to help at first and then she got bad again. How about you Poodlecrazy#1 ?


----------



## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Thank you everyone for your replies. 

Manxcat- thank you so much for chiming in with Pushkins experience on Atopica. Four months with no side effects is a huge relief for me! You're right about there being many negative responses to drugs. I tried to stay away from the negative ones and stick to the more scholarly articles and studies. Do you know what blood tests Pushkin has done to monitor his liver? Also do your worry about taking him places? I am worried to take Killa to the dog park and such due to her immune system being suppressed. 

Carley's Mom- Wow! That sure is a long ways away. I hope it is worth your time and money also. Personally I don't feel my visit to the dermatologist was worth it, but I think that's more because of the location and the specific doctor. I talked to one of my clients yesterday that went to their main clinic in Tustin for her Chihuahua, and she absolutely loved it. They also told her that they would never go to the Ontario clinic which is where I went. Keep in mind this is the exact same place just a satellite clinic of theirs with a different doctor. So if if I decide to go back I am definitely going to go to Tustin instead of Ontario. We did one steroid injection for Killa, it worked for a week and then after that stopped working. It was supposed to work for a month, and that is when he put her on oral steroids instead. We went to a different doctor and she put her on a different kind of steroid which also didn't work after tapering it. After that we ran some autoimmune tests and they came back negative and then went to the Dermatologist then back to the original doctor which put us where we are now- on Atopica. As for tips on the meds, I would do research first. I never put my self or my pets on a drug without knowing exactly what it is. But when doing research make sure you check your source. I only looked at scholarly articles and studies that were done on the drug. Like Manxcat said there are loads of negative things out there. Also if you have a vet at home that you trust run it by him/her and see what he/she thinks. The specialists are supposed to work with your regular DVM so you should be able to discus with him/her. And don't be afraid to ask questions. I think that was mostly what Killa's Derm appointment consisted of, is me asking the vet and the tech tons of questions lol. 

Dapple- Yes Killa is on a half pre made raw diet and half kibble diet. Unfortunately I am not very good at remembering to feed them (I'm amazed I haven't missed any doses of her medicine yet) so I keep some kibble out at all times for them to snack on just in case. We even tried the hydrolyzed protein food for a while and it didn't help either. Because of all the trial and error we have been doing they are thinking her issues are environmental or auto immune and not food related. Which makes sense.


----------



## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I have found with Stella a change in diet will help for awhile, but it always comes back. When I first got her she was really bad. She has never been that bad again. I changed her to a fish protein and she got better, then it was back, we went to raw, better, then back, then kangaroo, better and now back. I changed to venison, raw and kibble, she got worse, so I am back to the kangaroo. I have also been giving her 10mg of Zertex daily.


----------



## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> Thank you everyone for your replies.
> 
> Manxcat- thank you so much for chiming in with Pushkins experience on Atopica. Four months with no side effects is a huge relief for me! You're right about there being many negative responses to drugs. I tried to stay away from the negative ones and stick to the more scholarly articles and studies. Do you know what blood tests Pushkin has done to monitor his liver? Also do your worry about taking him places? I am worried to take Killa to the dog park and such due to her immune system being suppressed.


As far as I'm aware - and I will check it with the vet for you - he has liver function test, full blood count, platelet count, thyroid function test, but I will PM you with the details when I get chance to check with them... I just let them get on with it, tbh!

And no, we definitely do not restrict anything he does. When his platelet count was really low and he was at risk of bleeds we were very careful with him i.e. did not let him get in any situation where he might possibly get a bruise or something, so no playing with other dogs, but now we don't do anything out of the ordinary. He goes everywhere, scavenges (unfortunately!!), goes on the beach, fields, woodland... everywhere Pippin goes! The only major thing is that he does not have immunisations now, although I believe he had them as a puppy, so that's always a little bit of a worry... but for another day!!

He has had side effects from his condition (peeing, drinking, always hungry), but that is down to the steroids rather than the Atopica, and as he's now on Azathioprine as well we are hoping the steroids will be tailed off soon. When he started with the Atopica I kept a really close eye to see if there were any changes from just the steroids... but there weren't. He's only been on the Azathioprine a month so I got plenty of time to see how the Atopica affected him, but have had no concerns. 

Also, he has put on some much needed weight and everyone that knew him before we got him says how much better he looks now, although his fur is thinner and his skin a little bit dry (he's now getting EVOO in his food).

Long term steroid treatment is a whole different ballgame and I wish we'd managed to get him on the Atopica and/or Azathioprine ages ago. I know steroids have their place and are great for short term usage, but long term high doses are a PITA to live with... changes in personality and all sorts of other complications. But if it's life or death (and it was with Pushkin) then I'd do it all again!! 

Hope that helps!


----------



## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Manxcat said:


> As far as I'm aware - and I will check it with the vet for you - he has liver function test, full blood count, platelet count, thyroid function test, but I will PM you with the details when I get chance to check with them... I just let them get on with it, tbh!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you, you are so sweet and helpful. I'm sure the vet will know but it's always best to be able to go in and say I want this specific test done.
The only side effect Killa has had on the Atopica is nausea and vomiting. She is still a little nauseous throughout the day, but if I give her food before her pill she doesn't throw up. Which is a lot better compared to the list of side effects she had with the steroids.


----------



## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Carley's Mom said:


> I have found with Stella a change in diet will help for awhile, but it always comes back. When I first got her she was really bad. She has never been that bad again. I changed her to a fish protein and she got better, then it was back, we went to raw, better, then back, then kangaroo, better and now back. I changed to venison, raw and kibble, she got worse, so I am back to the kangaroo. I have also been giving her 10mg of Zertex daily.



That's how Killa was except with the meds and not the food. We never noticed any changes with her condition when we changed foods. Have you thought about having allergy testing done on her?


----------



## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Yes, that is my next step. Thanks!


----------



## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> Thank you, you are so sweet and helpful. I'm sure the vet will know but it's always best to be able to go in and say I want this specific test done.
> The only side effect Killa has had on the Atopica is nausea and vomiting. She is still a little nauseous throughout the day, but if I give her food before her pill she doesn't throw up. Which is a lot better compared to the list of side effects she had with the steroids.


You're welcome! Think the main one to keep an eye on is the liver function.

As regards the nausea etc, we give Pushkin his morning meal about 8am (tpoo size meal), then he gets his Atopica about 10.30 with a biscuit! So his stomach isn't exactly empty . He then gets a little kibble snack at 12 and again when I get home from work about 3.30. Then main dinner (tpoo size) at about 6.30 with carrot and stuff late evening to keep the night time munchies away. We found with him the best thing is little and often so he gets the same size meals as Pippin but with the snacks in between. This also helps with his voracious appetite from the steroids.


----------



## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

Has your been allergy tested? I haven't, due to cost, but through trial and error, I've found that my westi/maltese mix has a multitude of allergies that cause itchy skin problems, if not managed carefully. I discovered that eliminating all grains and potato (white and sweet) - basically all starches, along with alfalfa, chicken, duck, turkey (anything with feathers, basically), and eggs have helped. She also has environmental allergies, grass being number one. Summer is not a good time for my Maddie. I read a thread on a dog forum recently that said that the dog was found to have a severe allergy to dust mites, and that frequent washing of bedding, and frequent vacuuming/dusting/mopping of the house helped a great deal. I try to bathe my dog weekly to make sure the allergens don't build up on her coat. Water/ACV (1/2 of each) foot baths after being out on the grass help, too.

It can be quite maddening to live with an itchy dog, can't it?! I hope you find the magic solution soon!


----------



## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

georgiapeach said:


> Has your been allergy tested? I haven't, due to cost, but through trial and error, I've found that my westi/maltese mix has a multitude of allergies that cause itchy skin problems, if not managed carefully. I discovered that eliminating all grains and potato (white and sweet) - basically all starches, along with alfalfa, chicken, duck, turkey (anything with feathers, basically), and eggs have helped. She also has environmental allergies, grass being number one. Summer is not a good time for my Maddie. I read a thread on a dog forum recently that said that the dog was found to have a severe allergy to dust mites, and that frequent washing of bedding, and frequent vacuuming/dusting/mopping of the house helped a great deal. I try to bathe my dog weekly to make sure the allergens don't build up on her coat. Water/ACV (1/2 of each) foot baths after being out on the grass help, too.
> 
> It can be quite maddening to live with an itchy dog, can't it?! I hope you find the magic solution soon!



Unfortunately no she hasn't. I think that was one of the reasons I was so disappointed in the Dermatologist. She said environmental allergies yet she didn't test her for any? I think it's because since it's a satellite clinic they were not set up to do the intradermal testing. They only rent a room out of this huge fancy specialty office. If I go back to the main clinic I will definitely be requesting the Intradermal Allergy testing be done. That way they can start her on allergy shots if need be. Right now the Atopica is doing great for the sores on her face and ear, but not so much for the itching. She is still itchy and her poor little feet are so red and irritated. That is one reason we are so sure her issues are environmental, the 3 feet that she uses and walks on all the time are itchy, red and inflamed but the one deformed foot that she doesn't walk on has no issues at all. I ordered her some more shoes and some protective type socks so hopefully those will help keep away allergens.


----------

