# Shave Down... Why Not?



## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Hi Anna! I am right there with you on the very short cut for summer -- it's as much to help Dulcie stay cool as it is to help me keep her clean through all her summer play! I would have her shorter in winter too if it wasn't so dang cold -- with her winter coat on, I can skip a coat nearly all the time, which is helpful.

Is your boy Jasper a poodle mix? He is beautiful and I love his sweet expression! Maybe the groomer was surprised that you went as far as to take off any topknot. Many poodle people think that's scandalous!  I only take Dulcie's body down, not her topknot and usually I also leave on bracelets so she is in a modified Miami in warm weather (until the bracelets get int he way and then off they come, too, lol). But I always leave her topknot and tail fluffy. IT's all just personal preference and it sounds like all over short is working for you and Jasper!


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

That will be easy to keep for sure, and he will stay cool camping and travelling. I just love my girls long ears and fluffy TK, their body's aren't supper long but full.


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## hellothereitsanna (Jun 7, 2015)

yeah that's what I mean about the top-knot and the scandalousness of it all... I've had him shaved completely with the top-knot left on and it just doesn't look like him to me. he's a pure standard, but he gets called a doodle a lot. Maybe we'll try leaving the bracelets next time


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## hellothereitsanna (Jun 7, 2015)

I love their fluffy ears! I have to say though... there's nothing like petting their ears when they're shaved and feel like crushed velvet <3


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## Laumau (Dec 17, 2016)

I really like it. He looks like a big loveable lamb. It's very possible I might do something very similar for Benji when he gets older- no pom Pom tail, short ears, little to no top knot etc. I've been perusing the internet looking at poodle styles and I tend to like the less "poodly" looks. Although there is something unique and elegant about the traditional poodle look as well. For summer though short seems very practical!


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

Personally I don't like the look of it so that's why I would never do my poodles like that. Part of why I love the poodle breed is because of the looks. I currently have a show standard poodle obviously in show trim, and my mini poodle is growing out from a continental into some other fun longer style.


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## BaileyWilliams (Jan 31, 2017)

I think he looks adorable! We are planning to get a standard this summer and we are considering keeping him short as well, for easy grooming and cleanliness from all the outside play. 


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## Sammy the spoo (Jul 7, 2016)

I have Sammy in a very short clip (3/8") for now - no TK or ear and shaved face. I would like to fluff him up when his coat change is complete, but with the drizzly winter we have been having, we were getting too many tangles, and he did not enjoy the combing activity every night. Now it is much easier to keep it up, and I have a bit more time for training.


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## Laumau (Dec 17, 2016)

Haha did you notice you got a comment on Imgur "what breed of dog is that?"


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

That is a certainly a no fuss groom for camping. It's either hot or raining here, so a short trim works best for Buck. His topknot, ears and tail stay.


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## Mia42 (Sep 5, 2016)

Last summer, I shaved my girls down. There is no A/C in the house and they were just laying around panting. One shave down later, they were playing / doing zoomies again. This is Sasha and Wendy at 6/7 months old, respectively. I asked them to not cut the tails, but they did anyway.

(lets see if I can add pictures correctly)


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

My daughter and I have very different attitudes about grooming. She is into avoiding grooming, while I actually enjoy it. Sometimes I am a bit jealous of her devil may care outlook. Can you guess which poodles belong(s) to me/her?


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Charmed said:


> My daughter and I have very different attitudes about grooming. She is into avoiding grooming, while I actually enjoy it. Sometimes I am a bit jealous of her devil may care outlook. Can you guess which poodles belong(s) to me/her?


haha, let me guess....

I've seen someone walking two spoos with that same clip - basically everything off - in my local park. It's clearly an easy to care for clip and I'm sure the dogs don't care in the heat. OTOH I know someone who got a poodle from the local humane society and it was clipped like this because the poor dog had so many mats (she is growing out the fur). So when I see a dog clipped like that I do wonder if it's a dog that was allowed to mat.

I love the shaved ears that you see in the German clip - but I'm afraid to shave Babykins because it can take a long time to grow them back - and I assume the in between growth can look awkward. I'm also fond of the top knot and fluffy tail. In the summer I had Babykins in a very short mouton/lamb cut and this summer I'll probably do a Miami/Bikini. 

I love that we have so many choices in how to clip our poodles and they're all cute.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I prefer poodles in long coat. I think it suits them better. But for practical reasons, I shave Merlin short in summer, and half-short in winter. One thing though, I won't shave his ears anymore, it takes wayyyy too long to grow back !


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

Of course, Jasper looks very cute and keeping it short in summer can be a nice thing to do for him. But the question about shaving and the reason as to "why not" is more than one of aesthetics. There are some biological reasons that you shouldn't shave your dog. 

On one hand, you can see why someone who works in styling dogs as a profession might not see a lot of artistic merit in shaving a poodle. That's just a matter of taste. 

From a professional perspective, dogs usually only get totally shaved if something is wrong with their skin or fur, because shaving isn't actually that good for them.

It is a myth that actually shaving a dog is good for them during summer. This does more harm than good while it even defeats the purpose of keeping it cool to an extent. Having fur helps the dog to stay cooler when it is hot, because it enables the fur to hold air that is cooler than the outside temp. Thus, shaving actually removes the temp equilibrium system that the dog is naturally equipped with. They need at least enough fur to trap air effectively. Also, it leaves the dog prone to sunburn, and prone to chill on cool summer nights. Dogs can actually end up badly sunburned when their hair is shaved very short, and we don't even notice it.

Basically, shaving removes the dog's natural protection from the elements, which increases discomfort and makes the dog physically vulnerable. Imagine a person walking around butt naked with no sunscreen or hat all day long during a hot summer. Every now and then there is a cold and windy day, sometimes the nights are pretty chilly, sometimes the naked person goes boating and catches the suns glare off the water, while the wind chaps their bottom and the sun beats on their scalp. Imagine this constantly naked, hatless soul in all of these different situations and you can see how being naked all summer is only fun to talk about, but not actually fun to do. It would become punishing quickly in reality 

Of course, having very long hair is hotter, and keeping it short is a lot easier when you are off camping and having fun. In the future, you should leave at least 1-2 inches of fur to maintain the low maintenance, dog friendly style that you are going for. Good luck!


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I do shave the girls down for the summer but that is for me, I get hot grooming them. 
I figure if the dog hasn't been shaved down due to continued neglect, in words the owner cannot be bothered with regularly grooming the dog, who cares. The dog is a poodle no matter what length the hair.


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

I think Jasper looks incredibly handsome, I can understand why people might think he's a doodle as I've seen many doodles in a similar cut and it can be hard even for the most poodle savvy to be able to tell the difference!
I currently have Gunther in a lamb trim. I always used to go for the shaved body and fluffy tail/top knot combo but decided to grow it out, however I'm starting to regret the decision. As handsome as he looks it is a lot of grooming and my arm literally aches after I've brushed him, so I might go back to the shaved look!
Plus, I'm finding keeping the fur long in winter to be totally impractical - personally I find the longer fur a pain in the wet, muddy winter weather. It's so much harder to keep your dog clean. It would be easier to grow the fur out in summer, when the weather is generally dry and shave them short in the winter so its easier to clean them up after a muddy walk!


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## marialydia (Nov 23, 2013)

In the winter, Pericles has long-ish hair. In the summer, his body is cut down quite a bit, but nowhere near shaved, with his topknot, German-cut ears, and tail longish. 

I am trying to get a balance between not too short, for the reasons cited above -- heat regulation, avoiding sunburn -- and keeping it short enough that I can readily find ticks, which are rife here most of the year.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

I have to say, in 10+ years of grooming (and we have very hot summers) I have never had a client tell my their dog got sunburned. I have had my own white dog that has been shaved in a continental at times (with a 30 blade on his bum) and has never gotten sunburn. Most dogs have thick enough coat that even when shaved with a 7 you cannot see their skin.
1-2 inches is NOT a short easy to maintain groom for the average pet owner in north america. If I did all my clients in those lengths 75% of them would need to be stripped with a 7 or even 10 blade the next time I saw them due to matting.
There is maybe a bit of heat regulating, but in a single coated 'haired' breed like a poodle I think that is minimal. Is your head cooler where you have hair? And the large majority of dogs are not outside all day long in the sun. They may be out for a walk, or maybe in a yard for a while that will have some source of shade (either from the fence or house, or deck, etc) but not all day.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

It makes one wonder how Chihuahuas, Xolos and other naked techichi types got along for thousands of years in those hot, sunny places.

I like looking at a short clip and long. I think the short brings out that retriever look and Jasper is really a nice looking lad. I like the easier maintenance of a shortish clip but for me, I prefer to keep a little hair on and keep a top knot and a few fluffy places in keeping with that traditional poodly look. But it is true...there are so many things we can do with poodles' hair and that makes it fun.


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

At the bottom of this post are some vet and scientific study based links discussing how shaving removes the dogs natural temperature regulation system making it even hotter in summer, and leaving the dog prone to sunburn, which is well documented in dogs with short summer cuts (although naturally short hair can be a bit of a different issue as I will discuss briefly below) as well as fair dogs. The average sunburn is not necessarily easy to identify under a layer of very short fur where UV rays can easily penetrate to, yet the skin is not visible to us. Unless it is so severe that the skin is peeling and the dog is whimpering or wincing, then we probably won't notice if the dog has a basic burn.

If you are going to shave your dog during a hot and sunny summer so that it has less than an inch of fur, then keep it inside during high sun/heat times, and be aware of the fact that it simply is more vulnerable to the elements, sunburn and more prone to overheating etc. This goes for a single coated dog as well, although all of this is indeed even more relevant for double coated breeds who should really never be shaved down unless there is a medical problem. Shaving also damages the quality of their double coat, which is something we don't have to worry about with poodles. Regardless, both are fur mammals and the fur on fur mammals is well scientifically documented to play an important role in biological regulations like temp and sun protection.

But it's not all black and white. If you are going to spend a lot of time outside in summer sun hiking etc. then a really close shave is not your best bet. If your dog has a single coat and is inside or in cool shade much of the day time and seems to like the shave, then go for it. 

Even the wispy hair on our human heads protects us significantly from the sun and keeps our heads warm in the winter. You will notice this if you shave yours and try to frolic hatless in the outdoors during winter or summer. I once shaved my head during the winter time when I was younger and stupider, and I regretted it deeply for some time. It was still super short by summer and I needed a hat to avoid burning. But that's just anecdotal. On a wider note, People who descend from hotter, sunnier climates have thicker, darker and coarser hair for good biological reason which lies far beyond anecdote. However, I regress, as an analogy between humans and fur mammals is limited at best. 

One interesting point is the one about how dogs in Mexico or other hot climates may have very short or no hair. Of course, then you have Afghan hounds who hail from climates like Iraq and Pakistan where it is often very hot and they sport super long hair. Then you have a Nordic breed like the Danish Swedish farm dog, and it has very short hair despite coming from a cold northern climate. If a dog is biologically designed over many generations to live in a certain climate then there are a host of factors coming together (shape of the fur shaft, density of the fur, thickness and shade of skin, muzzle shape etc.) to make it ideal for that climate, so you can't really compare it to shaving a dog that would naturally have different hair. The Mexican hairless for example is bald, yet usually has the adaptation of dark skin, and the extra melanin provides protection. Chihuahuas are notorious for having issues with heat stroke despite loving the sun. Biology is complicated, especially when humans and selective breeding get involved. The point is that when you have one adaptation you usually have a host of other adaptations that go with them, so you can't necessarily isolate one. Thus, just because Mexican hairless seems to be doing well doesn't mean that a schnauzer should have the same criteria applied in order to thrive.

There is tons of information about the dog shaving issue. To sum it up, most vets and scientists agree that having a decent amount of fur to trap air and and protect from the sun is crucial in protecting a dog from sun and temperature. Most vets and scientists recommend against shaving, but acknowledge that it is less complicated to shave a single coated dog down as long as you take temperature and sun precautions into account. Owners are not making it easier for a dog to stay cool and comfortable by giving it less than an inch of fur. While it may not be ruinous, it makes it harder for the dog to regulate temperature and takes away natural skin protection. It is even more important that double coated dogs are not shaved. However, that doesn't mean that single coated dogs are excluded from this basic biological fact, as they are indeed both fur bearing mammals and fur serves a well established purpose for all who have it. 

All that said, if someone really can't brush their dog and will allow 1-2 inches to get badly matted, then this badly matted hair is not doing its job and you are better off shaving and thinking about how to protect your dog when the elements hit.

Anyway, what can be said for certain is that the significance of hair, fur, geography, genealogy, culture and weather is an interesting topic with a lot of nuances, and probably one that we do not discuss too deeply too often! 

To be concise, I will only cite 5 limited articles. The first 4 links are vet based articles, while the fourth is a report on an Austrian study from 2014. 

Heat Wave! Should You Shave Your Pet? | ASPCA

Should You Shave Your Dog or Cat for Summer?

Should You Shave Your Dog For Summer? No Way, Vets Say | SafeBee

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati.../gJQAlOqtYW_story.html?utm_term=.2a5b55dbe15b

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140627094406.htm


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I have to confess...I haven't had time to read your whole post or those links. But I get what you mean...air space. That acts as an insulator. So it makes sense. I just wonder how those hairless dogs in Mexico or Peru evolved or were selected by humans to have those short coats or no hair at all. Of course, that's a genetic mutation. It's interesting to me and would take some considerable research which I don't have time for. lol. Hopefully, I'll get some time to look at your post better and those links. Thanks for posting.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

It's all a matter of preference...............I prefer long hair, but then I am retired, my dog is small, and I have discovered that brushing a dog can be therapeutic! Also, my girl is an 'Apartment Dog' and rarely gets dirty(although she does get the chance to play in the mud occasionally) ............I can definitely see why a person with a activity filled life would want minimal grooming while still having the wonderful poodle personality and non-shedding! I personally am in love with lots of soft fluffy hair to stroke and run my fingers thru and the attention Molly gets with her haircut and painted toenails LOL! 
To each their own!


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## Nev (Jul 24, 2016)

I LOVE the naked look on poodles! I've only seen it on Standards, but I intend to do it to my boy Dipper as soon as possible. I love being able to see their build and structure and the angles in their faces. The poodle has such a unique build, it's always a thrill to see their conformation under all that hair.

I know what you mean about groomers xD I asked mine to shave Dipper down all the way today and she looked at me like I was a nut, and said: "You want 1/4th inch, right?" I thought she was gonna eat me!

Jasper looks stunning! I hope Dipper looks half as good as he does when I finally manage to get him sheared! Summer can't come fast enough!


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## BaileyWilliams (Jan 31, 2017)

Nev said:


> I LOVE the naked look on poodles! I've only seen it on Standards, but I intend to do it to my boy Dipper as soon as possible. I love being able to see their build and structure and the angles in their faces. The poodle has such a unique build, it's always a thrill to see their conformation under all that hair.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Be sure to post pictures! I'm sure he'll be adorable!



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## LittleAussiePoodle (Jun 2, 2016)

I like Hendrix's topknot and tail pom. I have been tempted to shave it off, but to be honest, I spent so long growing and shaping it to the way I like it that I don't know if I could bear to shave it off at this point. I admit that I did enjoy Hendrix's tail shaved, but because his is undocked and nearly a gay tail, it would look odd unless I also shaved his topknot.
Your guy looks awesome in the short cut! I think it's personal preference. If you like it short, that's great. I think the short docked tails look better shaved, and the look suits your dog. In a lot of ways, I think it's good people can see poodles in "real dog trims." 
Myself, I like the shaved poodle face, it looks more obvious under a nice topknot, which is the reason I think topknots are more my style. I also love grooming, and there is something so gratifying about shaking out the head, and it being perfectly rounded. 
As I have gotten more into poodles, I have started to like the "poodle look" more. At first I rebelled against it and had Hendrix in a fluffy all over cut, but I have fallen in love with the breed, and at this point I think it would be a disservice for people to think he wasn't one. I am so proud to have him, and being able to show off a very poodley dog that shows off the breed's wonderful nature so well is wonderful. I look forward to competing with him, and there is something so attractive about the idea of showing off what a poodle can really do.

So I guess my reasons for preferring a poodle trim on Hendrix are that I can't bear to cut it off because of how long it took to grow, that I like proving people wrong about his incredible breed, and love how it looks.
Your dog is gorgeous. <3


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## shell (Jul 10, 2015)

I prefer the look of a poodle with clean feet and a clean face, long and fluffy ears and a mad crazy topknot. I still think your poodle looks great though. I had to shave Addy down shortly after her coat change due to matting and she loved it-it was also pretty warm out.

I don't think there is any harm in shaving a poodle. As far as I am aware the only time shaving a dog may cause an issue with temperature regulation is in coated breeds. In the summer, her curls do nothing to keep her cool.


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

I like how standards look shaved, but mainly because I grew up with retrievers and huskies and wish people acknowledged the "retriever" in poodles and ignored the "useless fru-fru dog" stereotype. That said, when I first got Mochi, I always asked for her to have a very short clip all over except the ears and tail (my retrievers were labs mixed with goldens and had long hair which I loved). I also wanted her to look more like a retriever than a poodle so I could educate the unaware about how awesome poodles are when they asked me if she was a mini-doodle. :aetsch: My girls also have natural tails and I love the long fluffy tail look from my retrievers and huskies so I love that I can have that with my minis. 

Though after one haircut grew out and just before she was due for another grooming, I realized I was enjoying the pillow feel of her topknot and running my fingers through it when I pet her. So I started asking for her topknot to be allowed in a more poodle style puff.

Though we did end up having to shave her all over again just like the OPs boy when she got attacked at the dog park. I wanted to make sure I hadn't missed any injuries under the fur since it was her ears and head that were in the big dog's mouth. I had the groomer just clip her short all over so she'd be able to grow out evenly. Here's a pic from the week after her shave-down. She really does seem to look just like a shaved-down spoo in mini form. :bounce:

In summer I keep both with short body and legs, shaved face and tail base, and fluffy ears, topknot, and tails, as they are in my signature pictures which were taken after they came home from a fresh summer groom. I am just too much of a fan of fluffy tails to ever cut those short again but I can't say I'd *never* do the ears or topknot short again, though it's not likely.


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## King Louie (May 27, 2016)

PuffDaddy said:


> At the bottom of this post are some vet and scientific study based links discussing how shaving removes the dogs natural temperature regulation system making it even hotter in summer, and leaving the dog prone to sunburn, which is well documented in dogs with short summer cuts (although naturally short hair can be a bit of a different issue as I will discuss briefly below) as well as fair dogs. The average sunburn is not necessarily easy to identify under a layer of very short fur where UV rays can easily penetrate to, yet the skin is not visible to us. Unless it is so severe that the skin is peeling and the dog is whimpering or wincing, then we probably won't notice if the dog has a basic burn.
> 
> If you are going to shave your dog during a hot and sunny summer so that it has less than an inch of fur, then keep it inside during high sun/heat times, and be aware of the fact that it simply is more vulnerable to the elements, sunburn and more prone to overheating etc. This goes for a single coated dog as well, although all of this is indeed even more relevant for double coated breeds who should really never be shaved down unless there is a medical problem. Shaving also damages the quality of their double coat, which is something we don't have to worry about with poodles. Regardless, both are fur mammals and the fur on fur mammals is well scientifically documented to play an important role in biological regulations like temp and sun protection.
> 
> ...


 I think this is completely false I shave my longhair dachshunds in the summer where it is easily 112 degrees outside you can immediate tell they feel much cooler they stop panting and play more and it has not damaged any of their fur. I have 1 who would have a heat stroke if I didn't shave him because he plays so much and doesn't know when to slow down. It always grows back super quick and thick usually a month later you couldn't even tell they were shaved to begin with. They never once got sun burned either I keep a really close eye on their skin because in the country they can easily get in a plant they're not supposed to and get a rash luckily hasn't happened yet but did happen to neighbor 2 weeks of antibiotic ointment which smelled weird and made the dog greasy looking made me cautious. Since they're longhairs they don't shed so that makes the hotter temp outside that much worse.


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## LittleAussiePoodle (Jun 2, 2016)

I am not sure if Dachshunds are double coated or not, they are very uncommon here, but if they have a single coat, it is not surprising they grow back well. Dogs with double coats, however, should never be shaved. You see it often in Pomeranians and Huskies. People shave them for summer and they never grow back the same.
I don't think there is anything wrong with shaving single coated breeds, provided that you watch pink areas of skin. I think a layer of fur is best if you often go to places with brush where they could get scratched, or if they spend a lot of time in the sun. 
Double coated breeds shed their winter coat, and shaving them not only messes up the growth, but also gives access to their usually very insulated skin. Shaving a double coated dog can ruin the natural cycle of shedding, which may make them really struggle to keep warm when winter rolls around.
Dogs who spend a lot of time indoors often keep a winter coat all year around, which could be why you find your dogs getting so hairy that you need to shave them. We have a long haired kelpie (double coat, extremely thick), and he's fine. He lives outside, and so his coat naturally sheds the bottom layer in summer, but keeps a large amount for protection from the elements. Shaving him would not do much good for this dog. A dog who is kept in a certain temperature will get used to it, and his body will adjust. We just had a 40 degree summer, and this huge furball did great.
Hendrix, my poodle, lives indoors and is shaved almost to the skin in summer, because there is little danger of there being any side effects. Shaving a dog down only removes what is between the air and the skin of the dog. If you are going to be keeping a dog in a hot place, you will see no improvement, and likely make the problem worse. I think there is a big argument for shaving dogs, and obviously I am not against doing it myself, but it is not true that all dogs will benefit, or that it has no issues going along with it.

Here is our outside dog, with his summer coat. It was 37 degrees when the photo was taken, and he was gungho. Length or thickness of coat has little to do with how hot a dog gets. If I kept this same dog inside for the summer, it's likely that he would shed less and be just as hot in the air conditioner as he has been in the backyard. If I'd shaved him, he wouldn't have shed his bottom layer of coat properly, and would have, again, been just as hot. He also would have torn himself up on the blackberry bushes we've got everywhere.
Not all dogs should be shaved. For some, it does a world of good, but for others, especially if they are shorn very close, it is a terrible thing to do to them, and can cause them a summer of heart ache.


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