# silvers, and multicolored poodles



## frostfirestandards

I know the AKC standard does not allow for multicolored poodles. 

When I look at a silver, I see a pattern going on, not a solid color to the skin. especially on the silvers. 

The legs are lighter than the rest of the dog, even on mature dogs. 
Why are these considered solid colored dogs? (sorry if I seem ignorant here, color is not my forte) 

I have 2 silvers (1 is a toy, 1 is a standard) and my mother in law has 2 silver standards and they all have the same lighter legs, and darker body. the standards are all from the same breeder, who is a show breeder, and specializes in silver and blue. 

I've just always wondered, Thanks


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## cbrand

I've heard more than one Silver breeder speculate that a number of Silvers are actually Phantoms but the color pattern is hidden in the clearing process. I too have seen Silvers that look like they have a "saddle" pattern. Certainly, looking a Phantom pedigrees, you will often see silver in the background.


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## frostfirestandards

Thanks Cbrand, Its something I have always wondered about. 
I think they are pretty, but I do not think I will ever really be "into" silvers (I dont like the "coat scarring" thing) 


It just seems odd that a dog that has 2 different shade/colors is accepted if it is silver, but not if they are parti,phantom or brindle. 

Is silver a newly accepted color?


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## WonderPup

Thats an intersting question that I've never really considered before. I think Saleen is going to be one of those silvers who never really completely clears, guess thats a bad silver? *shrugs* I know she isn't finished but she has the lighter legs and body and the hair on her tail, ears, and back of neck belnding down into her body is very dark. He ears are very very dark and she has tons of black gaurd hairs all over except on the legs. She is out of a silver and white party though so does that make a difference?


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## WonderPup

frostfirestandards said:


> Thanks Cbrand, Its something I have always wondered about.
> I think they are pretty, but I do not think I will ever really be "into" silvers (I dont like the "coat scarring" thing)
> [/QUOTE
> 
> That's a new term for me, what is coat scarring?


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## cbrand

I think by coat scarring she means the color change in a coat when there has been skin damage. The hair grows in a different color so you end up with spots. I have personally seen this on Silvers, Browns (all variations) and Apricots. I don't know if it happens on Reds but it does not happen to Blacks and Whites/Creams.

I recently saw this on Delilah. This winter she was attacked by 4 dogs while on a hike. They savaged her pretty good, but I though she was ok. Her show coat must have been hiding the damage because there are three spots on her body where the hair is growing in dark, dark brown and pretty straight (I'll see if I can get a picture). My handler says that she thinks the hair will eventually right itself and grow back in correctly. We will see.


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## roxy25

cbrand said:


> I've heard more than one Silver breeder speculate that a number of Silvers are actually Phantoms but the color pattern is hidden in the clearing process. I too have seen Silvers that look like they have a "saddle" pattern. Certainly, looking a Phantom pedigrees, you will often see silver in the background.




I heard the same thing also


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## Harley_chik

I thought the standard said it has to be a clear color *at* the skin and that some shading is allowed. I've often wondered why Silver is allowed but Sables aren't. Sables are an even color at the skin and when they mature often their ears are the only place w/ shading.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

Yes, it happens in reds. When Holly had her S/A done, where they did the three skin punches came in the colour she was when she was four months old and she looked polka dotted.

If Thinker licks a spot (he is one to worry a wound) it will come in jet black and will need to grow out over time, and eventually clears to the colour of the rest of him.

He has no dark areas. He is platinum from the tip of his nose to the tip of his tail, perfectly even colour all over and to the skin. He is the product of a silver father and white mother.


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## jak

cbrand said:


> I've heard more than one Silver breeder speculate that a number of Silvers are actually Phantoms but the color pattern is hidden in the clearing process. I too have seen Silvers that look like they have a "saddle" pattern. Certainly, looking a Phantom pedigrees, you will often see silver in the background.


I myself love the silvers, and I have thought this for ages now... just looking at the pattern of the clearing, and even on mature dogs, it is exactly the same as this phantom marking..


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## flyingduster

Paris is a very pale cream (ie white, but not ice-white!) and she gets an apricot spot on any damaged skin, it's also usually very coarse and straight too. She still has one lil spot growing out, that I had no idea how she even got it until I found the coarse lil apricot hairs growing in over a scar one day when drying her! lol


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## WonderPup

flyingduster said:


> Paris is a very pale cream (ie white, but not ice-white!) and she gets an apricot spot on any damaged skin, it's also usually very coarse and straight too. She still has one lil spot growing out, that I had no idea how she even got it until I found the coarse lil apricot hairs growing in over a scar one day when drying her! lol


Jazz is the same way, though she is a darker creme than Paris. There have been a couple of places where the hair has come in darker but then eventually returned to the correct color.


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## Fluffyspoos

I was looking at silvers the other day thinking that they have phantom markings (I think it's beautiful) but it is interesting that they're allowed in the AKC and the multicolors aren't? Huh.


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## PaddleAddict

Just curious, but does anyone think that muticolored poodles will eventually be allowed by the AKC standard? 

Can multicolored poodles be shown anywhere other than UKC?


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## cbrand

Thinking about this again, if a dog was a true phantom, it would have that coloring as a puppy. Perhaps, the silvers with patterning are really just a case of silvers not clearing completely.


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## tintlet

here is a phantom that was NOT born with the markings. If he was put in pattern you might not notice the cream legs due to the shaved areas. the tail patch could be powdered and the cheek spot are very small.







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## tintlet

here is a blue..she does look like Phantom markings, but skin is all one color


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## tintlet

here is a sable. litter sister to the Phantom


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## Olie

Great examples - it can be confusing........hwell: I just love the sable beauty!!


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## tintlet

Olie,

the Sable beauty has a coat from He!!...LOL!!! I hope it gets better with age.

We might come to a show in Sanford NC the first weekend of June...love to see you there.


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## tintlet

Here is the Phantom at 2 years of age...we were starting a German Clip on him..
love the "floating lambie"..lol


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## WonderPup

ummm wow I think I've spotted my next spoo.. I am in LOVE with the sable. What a neat look that is! I want one lol Then again I like the phantom too. I'll just take a poo of every color please LoL


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## neVar

i'm in love with the phantom coloring- i've been looking for 2 years for one. . . (From a good breeder being the crux) 
if you remember my 'cross your fingers' thread. well pups born last night- only 2 girls (Phantom) so i'm still not sure until the breeder decides if i'm getting one *SIGH*


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## Olie

WonderPup said:


> ummm wow I think I've spotted my next spoo.. I am in LOVE with the sable. What a neat look that is! I want one lol Then again I like the phantom too. I'll just take a poo of every color please LoL


I second every word LOL! ^


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## Stella

OMG I am loving the Sable!!


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## wishpoo

OMG _ HOW PRETTY IS THAT ???????????? :beauty (2): 

I NEVER saw that color and it is just soooo beautiful !!!!! 

The sable puppy is more than adorable LOL !!!!!!


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## cbrand

Gloria,

If that Phantom dog was not born that color, when did the pattern start appearing? Is the skin a different color under the white?


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## tintlet

we didn't breed him, so not sure when it started. She noticed the feet were striped at about 7-8 weeks, then noticed the tail patch after that. Kelsey got him at about 9-10 weeks and you could see the marking then. The skin is dark under the gray, and pink under the cream. We had hoped he would have lightened more in the body and could have been shown in AKC. I doubt that anyone would have even noticed.

I still believe that many of our silvers are really phantoms. the Gray dogs are an all over even color, where as the silver are pretty variegated. I also have the theory that many silvers are really a silver sable.
Rhiannon ( sable) you need to think of a sable Sheltie. If you cut off the ends of the coat, its all a creamy color underneath. When Rhi's coat grows longer, she has lots of black guard hairs ( just like silvers) and when it get longer the ends start to turn dark. Rhiannon has same color skin all over except for the ends of her ears are darker skin.
Rhiannon also "blushes" when she gets mad!!


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## jester's mom

tintlet said:


> here is a sable. litter sister to the Phantom


OMGosh, that FACE!!! I LOVE that face! That is the kind of face I so much love to see. What a beauty, both in color and looks! AND, I love your phantom! I know they are NOT AKC approved, but I absolutely love those colors! Thanks for sharing the pics... I certainly enjoyed looking at them.... sigh!


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## spoospirit

_Both your phantom and you sable are just beautiful!! I have to say I love the sable the most though.
_


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## tintlet

Rhiannon is one of those dogs that can't that can't take a bad photo..lol

She is really cute, but horrible naughty and the coat mats up instantly....

Just love her photo showing off her Dogs in Style collar.


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## Aidan

That sable is beautiful. Reminds me of "Neptune" who I believe is a standard poodle that passed away.

Anyone know anything more about Neptune or where he came from?


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## Olie

Oh how sad.  I think this might have been her brother.....or related somehow. I cant recall, I might be mistaken. Gloria would know better.


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## plumcrazy

So the boy we fostered a while back may be a sable... or not... As beautiful as I think these poodle colors are - I'm horrible at identifying them...

I think his breeder (who I tracked down after we rescued him) told me he was a brindle (brindle parti?) but his head looks like a sable... Hmmmm I don't know but he's a sweet boy no matter what and his new family loves him to pieces! 

First picture is the day we picked him up and the others are from when he lived with us. His new daddy likes to groom him now so he's clipped short all over with a topknot that has no "front" (they don't like the hair in his eyes!) :lol: but he's well cared for anyway!


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## Olie

PC - how sweet is she?! I am with you and not that great - full of guesses  she has the parti and brindle look doesn't she.


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## plumcrazy

Olie said:


> PC - how sweet is she?! I am with you and not that great - full of guesses  she has the parti and brindle look doesn't she.


And his color changed like MAD from when he was a baby! The breeder sent me some baby pictures of him when she found out that we had rescued him... Here's Dolce as a wee kid... According to his breeder - this is the SAME DOG as the pictures in my post above! Big change, huh??


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## WonderPup

plumcrazy said:


> And his color changed like MAD from when he was a baby! The breeder sent me some baby pictures of him when she found out that we had rescued him... Here's Dolce as a wee kid... According to his breeder - this is the SAME DOG as the pictures in my post above! Big change, huh??


oooooohh, i want one of those too lol. he is adorable! Glad he found a good home!!!!


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## tintlet

Neptune is their litter mate...Just talked to Candace today..we still both cry when we think of him. Neptune touched so many hearts in his short lifetime


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## Olie

I have a terrible memory anymore. It is sad poor boy. 

Some threads going with these gorgeous brindles, phantoms and sables!


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## Cameo

I am SOOO IMPRESSED with Rhiannon and Neptune!!! They are just gorgeous and I MUST have one!!! One day...


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## tintlet

Sable is a color and Brindle is a pattern.

Parti, phantom, brindle . mismark (abstract)are all patterns. 
So you could have a sable/ brindle/ parti/ phantom, on all one dog...lol


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## tintlet

Be careful what you wish for.....hehehehe

all that glitters is not gold:scared:


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## poodlelover

Beautiful Sables, I must have one. What happened to Neptune? Neptune is a nice name.


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## wishpoo

Oh : ((( how horrible !!!!! What happened to Neptune : ((( ??? 

Sable is such a beautiful color - I still can not get "over it " LOL I never saw it before so I "stare" at that photo over and over again LMAO


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## tintlet

Flickr: blondeclick's Photostream

Neptune's owners Flicker page...lots of lovely photos...and his story.

I try to write words about him, but the tears block the screen....it suxs


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## Olie

Thanks for sharing Gloria. Neptune was a beauty. I recall using a picture of his I found as an example of a trim I liked. Seems his time spent with his family looked wonderful.

Rest In Peace Neptune


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