# Breeder in Ontario, Canada



## roxy25

Locket said:


> I have a few breeders in mind for my future pup, but I was wondering if anyone has recommendations for breeders in Ontario, Canada.
> 
> I'm not looking to add a pup to my home for a few more years (3-5), but I like to be prepared and I also want to research the lines for any instances of epilepsy, do NOT want to deal with that again.
> 
> Any breeder suggestions would be great! Thanks!


Depends what you are looking for ? standard , mini, toy ? color ? show, pet ?


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## Locket

roxy25 said:


> Depends what you are looking for ? standard , mini, toy ? color ? show, pet ?


hahah I knew I forgot something!

Standard, preferably black or white. I do not want to show my dog, but I do want a conformationally sound spoo (which shouldn't be a problem going through a reputable breeder). I would like to earn a CGC with my future spoo, and volunteer as a therapy dog. I don't know if there are "show lines" and "work lines" with Standards like there are for Dobermans for example, but I would like to *avoid* working lines as I do not plan on doing agility or any dog sports.


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## roxy25

Locket said:


> hahah I knew I forgot something!
> 
> Standard, preferably black or white. I do not want to show my dog, but I do want a conformationally sound spoo (which shouldn't be a problem going through a reputable breeder). I would like to earn a CGC with my future spoo, and volunteer as a therapy dog. I don't know if there are "show lines" and "work lines" with Standards like there are for Dobermans for example, but I would like to *avoid* working lines as I do not plan on doing agility or any dog sports.


Well that I know of there is not working lines persa for poodles. Some people say they have hunting poodles but IMO there really is not difference poodles like to please and I am sure a show poodle will hunt if taught to ( which I have seen many times on several breeder pages) 

anyways 

try here 

http://www.poodleclubcanada.com/

I love Tango poodles dogs so much I would get one from them if I had the money lol
http://www.tangopoodles.com/welcome.htm


I also the way Vetset dogs look 
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/vetset/nextpage.html


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## Locket

Thanks Roxy. 

Tango poodles just had a litter with Classique poodles, which is one of the breeders I'm really interested in. Tango and Vetset have great looking dogs, just what I'm looking for. Thanks so much for your help!


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## roxy25

Locket said:


> Thanks Roxy.
> 
> Tango poodles just had a litter with Classique poodles, which is one of the breeders I'm really interested in. Tango and Vetset have great looking dogs, just what I'm looking for. Thanks so much for your help!


That is awesome I hope ypu can get a tango poodle then. her dogs are really nice I love solomon he won award of merit at westminster I believe this year


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## cuddleparty

Hey Locket! I got my tiny toy, Snoops from Cournoyeas Poodles. They are located in Northern Ontario, near Alliston. It was worth the drive! Snoops has an amazing disposition, great attitude and characteristics, and he is a handsome devil! I believe the breeder also works with standards so check out their website, drop them a line...  goodluck!


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## Locket

Thanks cuddleparty. I checked out their website and they only breed toys and minis, but thank you!


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## cuddleparty

Oh too bad...  I was almost certain she worked with standards as well.
It may be worth dropping her a line for a recommendation? I'm sure she must know of other reputable breeders in Ontario


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## Mandycasey'smom

I have seen some ads for Fads fancy but he has a lot of mismarks in his lines as I called looking for a parti and he says NO but I have lots with white toes and chests.
He kept pushing a cafe oh lait one for 1500 that had white feet. um not looking for that thanks and even called me back weeks later. Didn't like that when I had said not what looking for. I never gave my number he kept it of of call display.
Funny thing came through my drive through one day I happened to ask what was in the crates he says puppys and tried to sell me one through wndow. NOT.
I had NO idea who he was when he came through just asked what in crates.

I think I have heard good things about Bijou and great things about Cantope. Was a day late on a retired silver male I really wanted from them.

Good luck


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## Locket

Thanks, I'll look into those breeders as well.


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## roxy25

Mandycasey'smom said:


> I think I have heard good things about Bijou and great things about Cantope. Was a day late on a retired silver male I really wanted from them.
> 
> Good luck


I would not deal with Bijou.


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## Locket

roxy25 said:


> I would not deal with Bijou.


Yeah, I wasn't all that impressed with Bijou. Cantoupe seemed to have 3 litters all due this summer! That seems like a bit too many. 
I'm pretty much only interested in breeders who title their dogs (preferably in conformation, but obedience, hunting, etc. too), do extensive health testing (just hips is not enough), breeds for temperament, breeds to better the breed, have been involved with the breed for a while, have a puppy contract, and non-breeding contract (unless arranged otherwise). There are a few other things, but I can't think of them at the moment. I know that seems like tough criteria for essentially "just a pet" poodle, but I really want a healthy, sound puppy. While it can't be 100% guaranteed that my pup will live a long, healthy life, getting a pup from strong, well-bred lines will increase the guarantee.


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## roxy25

Locket said:


> Yeah, I wasn't all that impressed with Bijou. Cantoupe seemed to have 3 litters all due this summer! That seems like a bit too many.
> I'm pretty much only interested in breeders who title their dogs (preferably in conformation, but obedience, hunting, etc. too), do extensive health testing (just hips is not enough), breeds for temperament, breeds to better the breed, have been involved with the breed for a while, have a puppy contract, and non-breeding contract (unless arranged otherwise). There are a few other things, but I can't think of them at the moment. I know that seems like tough criteria for essentially "just a pet" poodle, but I really want a healthy, sound puppy. While it can't be 100% guaranteed that my pup will live a long, healthy life, getting a pup from strong, well-bred lines will increase the guarantee.


Trust me that is not too much to ask I agree with you. There are many breeders that meet what you are looking for. Just go to a local dog show and start talking to people email or call the canada poodle club. the club will have a list of breeders who are involved with the breed.


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## thestars

I dealt with Bijou and got a beautiful red girl to show, Bindi. We have had a wonderful experience with her and has been very helpful whenever I email her. She really cares about the breed and has done extensive research. I was very impressed with her extensive knowledge in the Reds and Browns.


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## 814

*Don't deal with Bijou Poodles !!*

Yeah I would not deal with Bijou either.

Some Points to know about them:
-They have been breeding Poodles since 1989 !
-They do all the conclusive health testing
-DNA health and "color" test their dogs
-Tell you upfront a fair evaluation of their pups (good and bad points ie here is *ONE EXAMPLE* of many points... "expect that they will fade at some point, to some degree")
-They Answer questions 24/7
-Offer extensive Puppy package and support
-Microchip Implant ID their pups
-Have over 3-5 generation PICTURE pedigrees of their litters (hard to find a breeder that does that kind of research just ask a breeder for one..)
-Offers to pay for spay and neuter a $300.00 savings to me
-Show their dogs to UKC championships (UKC often uses AKC or CKC judges)
-They have obedience titled their poodles, CGC tested them.
ARe selective on who they sell to and if they don't think you 
are appropriate OR they don't feel they have a puppy that will help you out or be what you are looking for they will tell you and not try to convince you to buy from them.
-They have taken back 2 Poodle pups of theirs because the owners lost their jobs (they were advertised on their web page). 
-Do biosensor with their pups
-Offer you a growth chart to watch your puppy's mom grow weekly and explain to you what is going on.
-After the pups are born they send you weekly photos and AND video and again explain to you weekly what they are doing with your puppy. 

NEGATIVES:
-They don't sell breeding rights to "just anyone with the money to buy them" and they want to know a ton about your breeding plans and your goals, and I know that is what peeves a lot of people off.. most people would like the option..

-They don't have "open house" every day to everyone wishing to visit which is disappointing to people who are wishing to "shop around". (can you imagine how many people and how many days that would take though??)

-You may have to wait up to a year for a puppy

FACTS:

I dont' think they are better or worse than any other breeder by any means...but lets be honest here. What are we all looking for ?
Health, Temperament, Color. 

I got that with my Bijou Poodle and I know that if I have any questions or problems I can get an answer or solution within a few hours. I'm not sure what anyone else could want ?

If you have a negative to say about ANY kennel... back it up with facts not just statements, that don't hold you accountable for your "opinion".

According to this message board there are no good breeders/kennels and that is just sad to read all the negativity with no facts...just a lot people competing and slamming each other. 

There are a handful of red breeders in Canada and as far as I can tell they have healthy, happy beautiful pups that anyone would be proud to own. 

Keep up the good work breeders, some of us appreciate your hard work and dedication.


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## roxy25

toomoxy said:


> Yeah I would not deal with Bijou either.
> 
> Some Points to know about them:
> -They have been breeding Poodles since 1989 !
> -They do all the conclusive health testing
> -DNA health and "color" test their dogs
> -Tell you upfront a fair evaluation of their pups (good and bad points ie here is *ONE EXAMPLE* of many points... "expect that they will fade at some point, to some degree")
> -They Answer questions 24/7
> -Offer extensive Puppy package and support
> -Microchip Implant ID their pups
> -Have over 3-5 generation PICTURE pedigrees of their litters (hard to find a breeder that does that kind of research just ask a breeder for one..)
> -Offers to pay for spay and neuter a $300.00 savings to me
> -Show their dogs to UKC championships (UKC often uses AKC or CKC judges)
> -They have obedience titled their poodles, CGC tested them.
> ARe selective on who they sell to and if they don't think you
> are appropriate OR they don't feel they have a puppy that will help you out or be what you are looking for they will tell you and not try to convince you to buy from them.
> -They have taken back 2 Poodle pups of theirs because the owners lost their jobs (they were advertised on their web page).
> -Do biosensor with their pups
> -Offer you a growth chart to watch your puppy's mom grow weekly and explain to you what is going on.
> -After the pups are born they send you weekly photos and AND video and again explain to you weekly what they are doing with your puppy.
> 
> NEGATIVES:
> -They don't sell breeding rights to "just anyone with the money to buy them" and they want to know a ton about your breeding plans and your goals, and I know that is what peeves a lot of people off.. most people would like the option..
> 
> -They don't have "open house" every day to everyone wishing to visit which is disappointing to people who are wishing to "shop around". (can you imagine how many people and how many days that would take though??)
> 
> -You may have to wait up to a year for a puppy
> 
> FACTS:
> 
> I dont' think they are better or worse than any other breeder by any means...but lets be honest here. What are we all looking for ?
> Health, Temperament, Color.
> 
> I got that with my Bijou Poodle and I know that if I have any questions or problems I can get an answer or solution within a few hours. I'm not sure what anyone else could want ?
> 
> If you have a negative to say about ANY kennel... back it up with facts not just statements, that don't hold you accountable for your "opinion".
> 
> According to this message board there are no good breeders/kennels and that is just sad to read all the negativity with no facts...just a lot people competing and slamming each other.
> 
> There are a handful of red breeders in Canada and as far as I can tell they have healthy, happy beautiful pups that anyone would be proud to own.
> 
> Keep up the good work breeders, some of us appreciate your hard work and dedication.


Thanks for your Opinion 

:quiet:


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## thestars

toomoxy, I would have a different opinion on your negatives
*"-They don't sell breeding rights to "just anyone with the money to buy them" and they want to know a ton about your breeding plans and your goals, and I know that is what peeves a lot of people off.. most people would like the option.."* I do the same thing with my puppies that I sell. There are alot of brokers, designer breeders and puppy mills just wanting to take advantage of getting breeding dogs. When you work for years to ensure your quality line is not misused and breed to just any dog out there. Good breeders do not accept a "cash in hand" attitude and sell their puppies off to the first person who comes along, which is why they SHOULD ask you to book your puppy and get to know you. This also enables the breeder to know what sort of temperament you need in a puppy for your personal situation. As a breeder, I give a darn about each family and want to know that each special puppy is in the hands that will love them and not exploit them as chattel. I would rather sell to a pet family rather then another breeder whom may not have the time to give that puppy the individual love they so deserve in their short lives. 

*"-They don't have "open house" every day to everyone wishing to visit which is disappointing to people who are wishing to "shop around". (can you imagine how many people and how many days that would take though??)"* DO NOT expect a good breeder to allow you to go to their home and "see all their dogs" when they have a pregnant female! A good breeder should be concerned about the security and feelings of the pregnant female more then anything! Good Breeders CANNOT allow people in to see their puppies until they are covered for Parvo Virus - around 7 weeks of age. Parvo can be carried on shoes, clothing or hands and no good breeder would allow any contact with their litter until they have had their first shots. Have you ever seen or heard from breeders that litters were wiped out because of Parvo? I have and is devastating. As a breeder, I don't allow people to just show up. Heck I got to go to work too. Also, they use hand wash and shoe covers when coming into my home and I definitely don't allow their pets to come in with them to pick a puppy.

*"-You may have to wait up to a year for a puppy"* The wait is because there is so many people requesting to buy. Have you ever thought how many emails a breeder in business that long gets a day? They got jobs too as well as taking care of their pets, litters, vet, showing, answering emails, transporting and arranging shipping. Testing on Breeding stock. Their is alot of work and alot of people out there with internet access from all over the world wanting a puppy. Remember: All good things come to those who wait.

And for Roxy25; All colors, and I mean all colors to include whites and blacks fade/change with age and between puppy coat to the adult coat. Some even darken. Elements like sun exposure, dirt, grasses, and different water types also have an effect on coat color. This is a good link about the coat; http://publications.royalcanin.com/renvoie.asp?type=1&cid=135867&id=102507&com=4&animal=0&lang=2&session=791780
Also the "Standard: over 15 inches tall at the shoulder," does not exclude a poodle that stands at 28". They are still able to show just like any other poodle, they just happen to be bigger. I have a 72 Lb Black Male that stands that tall and trust me he gets the looks from people and questions from people even more then the Red.


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## roxy25

thestars said:


> toomoxy, I would have a different opinion on your negatives
> *"-They don't sell breeding rights to "just anyone with the money to buy them" and they want to know a ton about your breeding plans and your goals, and I know that is what peeves a lot of people off.. most people would like the option.."* I do the same thing with my puppies that I sell. There are alot of brokers, designer breeders and puppy mills just wanting to take advantage of getting breeding dogs. When you work for years to ensure your quality line is not misused and breed to just any dog out there. Good breeders do not accept a "cash in hand" attitude and sell their puppies off to the first person who comes along, which is why they SHOULD ask you to book your puppy and get to know you. This also enables the breeder to know what sort of temperament you need in a puppy for your personal situation. As a breeder, I give a darn about each family and want to know that each special puppy is in the hands that will love them and not exploit them as chattel. I would rather sell to a pet family rather then another breeder whom may not have the time to give that puppy the individual love they so deserve in their short lives.
> 
> *"-They don't have "open house" every day to everyone wishing to visit which is disappointing to people who are wishing to "shop around". (can you imagine how many people and how many days that would take though??)"* DO NOT expect a good breeder to allow you to go to their home and "see all their dogs" when they have a pregnant female! A good breeder should be concerned about the security and feelings of the pregnant female more then anything! Good Breeders CANNOT allow people in to see their puppies until they are covered for Parvo Virus - around 7 weeks of age. Parvo can be carried on shoes, clothing or hands and no good breeder would allow any contact with their litter until they have had their first shots. Have you ever seen or heard from breeders that litters were wiped out because of Parvo? I have and is devastating. As a breeder, I don't allow people to just show up. Heck I got to go to work too. Also, they use hand wash and shoe covers when coming into my home and I definitely don't allow their pets to come in with them to pick a puppy.
> 
> *"-You may have to wait up to a year for a puppy"* The wait is because there is so many people requesting to buy. Have you ever thought how many emails a breeder in business that long gets a day? They got jobs too as well as taking care of their pets, litters, vet, showing, answering emails, transporting and arranging shipping. Testing on Breeding stock. Their is alot of work and alot of people out there with internet access from all over the world wanting a puppy. Remember: All good things come to those who wait.
> 
> And for Roxy25; All colors, and I mean all colors to include whites and blacks fade/change with age and between puppy coat to the adult coat. Some even darken. Elements like sun exposure, dirt, grasses, and different water types also have an effect on coat color. This is a good link about the coat; http://publications.royalcanin.com/renvoie.asp?type=1&cid=135867&id=102507&com=4&animal=0&lang=2&session=791780
> Also the "Standard: over 15 inches tall at the shoulder," does not exclude a poodle that stands at 28". They are still able to show just like any other poodle, they just happen to be bigger. I have a 72 Lb Black Male that stands that tall and trust me he gets the looks from people and questions from people even more then the Red.


Yes I am aware that all poodle fade with age thanks for the link though. I never said blacks or white do not fade ?!! There is one thing to say they fade to a degree and then seeing a dog totally faded to more than 5 shades. 

The standard does not say 28 inches are not allowed as you stated but people are not breeding huge dogs , remember these dogs where bred to retriever waterfowl , Huge big dogs are not going to be as agile as a normal sized dog. reason why they have different height in agility it would be unfair to make a great dane compete against a jack russell. At AKC shows the average height for a show male is about 25 inches. If you plan to show 28" dog will be hard to finish in AKC same with if you had a 15" stud dog. 
If you noticed in the sporting group most breeds are under 28" again there is probably a reason for this. I still see this breed as a working breed even tho they are placed in non sporting. Even though the door is open to 15" and above does not mean we need to start breeding 28-35" poodles now does it ?

This is my opinion my sister and I got more familiar with the breed standard and watched poodles in the show ring and Bijou just does not have what we where looking for to place or win in AKC. I also have heard bad things about this breeder from several people. I am glad you had a good experience with Bijou , you found what you where looking for and I can not argue with that.

It does not even matter what i say anyways Locket is not looking for a red poodle so bijou is not the breeder for them lol


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## Locket

I didn't want to start an argument. I'm glad toomoxy and thestars have had wonderful experiences with Bijou. They just aren't what I'm looking for. Don't be offended, don't take it personally. The most important thing is that YOU are happy with your dogs, and that your dogs are healthy and happy.


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## roxy25

Locket said:


> I didn't want to start an argument. I'm glad toomoxy and thestars have had wonderful experiences with Bijou. They just aren't what I'm looking for. Don't be offended, don't take it personally. The most important thing is that YOU are happy with your dogs, and that your dogs are healthy and happy.


I agree , do not take it personal if some one does not like a breeder that you got your dogs from. As long as you are happy then I am happy for you


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## thestars

Locket, I don't see it as an argument. It's just we, toomoxy and I, have had the experience with this Breeder and I personally feel if the Breeder is not on the forum to defend themselves it's disrespectful and is a form of slander and or defamation of character. This goes against the forum's foundation rules, "Please be respectful of other members and their opinions, please do not force your beliefs upon anyone" I ask that if Roxy25 has an issue with Bijou that she take it up personally with her, I know that she would answer her. By the way Roxy25, Enzo is in the same lines as Bijou's. The red line is a VERY small gene pool! 

Locket, I do hope you find what you are looking for in a good breeder and remember these posts are all just PERSONAL opinions, some based on experience and others with nothing but internet knowledge.


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## T o d d

As far as I can see everyone is stating their opinion.

Some for, and some against a breeder.

This to me is healthy conversation about a breeder.

Of coarse if the breeder was here they'd have nothing but good things to say about themselves, or be able to _prove_ some things... but sharing opinions is fine.

I don't see anyone forcing anyone to not get a dog from someone or to buy from someone else.

Healthy argument is fine, and agreeing to disagree is fine too.


-Todd


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## thestars

Yes, I do know they were breed for retrieving. My Big Black male retrieves very well. It is truly a site to see him leap off the deck of the boat after a downed duck in the water bringing back the prize, or "kissing" the fish ever so gently before it's released, or playing ever so gently with a little 4 week old toy poodle puppy.

A "poodle of color" will definitely have a tougher time to win in the AKC ring, that's politics. I know quite a few who have left that arena after as much as 30 years because of the politics within AKC and the way they are going with the breed. They are adding widgets, hair extensions, etcetera to the mane, this is unnatural and against the rules however it is being done and being overlooked. Thus some of the reasons why their show numbers aren't going up and why it's so hard to get a major. But we with "Poodles of Color" keep knocking on that door to be noticed that they are just as good. We could take the easy road but choose to make the statement.


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## roxy25

thestars said:


> . By the way Roxy25, Enzo is in the same lines as Bijou's. The red line is a VERY small gene pool!



I did not get Enzo bijou he does not have the same dogs in his pedigree for the first 5 generations she has one dog from Enzo's breeder "oliver". Enzo has no Bijou dogs in his pedigree ...... what I mean by that is no dogs in his pedigree habe bijou as a prefix to registered name. If this was true then I can say Enzo is DD which is not clear at this point like I said in another post he might be dd. If he was directly from bijou lines he would be DD automatically since she color tests.

I know all red standards are related because of Majestic kennels and Palamares. You can have different bloodlines within a gene pool ( this happens in all breeds of dogs) once you start breeding your dogs differently you are creating a bloodline.


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## thestars

I said he was from some of the same lines as some of Bijou's not of her line. I'm just relaying a fact she has shared. I am aware of breed lines as I am a breeder.

It would be interesting to see Enzo's DNA coat color results. I am aware of his Dam's side.


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## Harley_chik

I just want to say I agree with Todd completely! I greatly appreciate Roxy, thestars and toomoxy for sharing their opinions and experiences. I don't think anyone should be afraid to say something negative about a breeder, if they can back it up. Roxy has given reasons in this post and others why she doesn't care for this breeder and it's nice to read about good experiences with the same breeder. 

Locket, I agree with Roxy about what you want in a breeder. You are definitely not asking too much and I hope you find the pup you are looking for!


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## PonkiPoodles

Harley_chik said:


> I just want to say I agree with Todd completely! I greatly appreciate Roxy, thestars and toomoxy for sharing their opinions and experiences. I don't think anyone should be afraid to say something negative about a breeder, if they can back it up. Roxy has given reasons in this post and others why she doesn't care for this breeder and it's nice to read about good experiences with the same breeder.
> 
> Locket, I agree with Roxy about what you want in a breeder. You are definitely not asking too much and I hope you find the pup you are looking for!


I agree 100%... If you know something about a breeder that is negative PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE share it. This will save people like me (who is currently looking into getting a brother for Ponki) a lot of pain, suffering, heart ache and money!


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## roxy25

PonkiPoodles said:


> I agree 100%... If you know something about a breeder that is negative PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE share it. This will save people like me (who is currently looking into getting a brother for Ponki) a lot of pain, suffering, heart ache and money!


I think I pm'd you about it, I do not want to post because , I do not want want to start a argument. The breeder will probably come on here saying its not true and what not plus the info was said to me in private.


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## PonkiPoodles

roxy25 said:


> I think I pm'd you about it, I do not want to post because , I do not want want to start a argument. The breeder will probably come on here saying its not true and what not plus the info was said to me in private.


Yes Roxy you did pm me... I was just making a general statement (thanks again ). I think everyone would like to know what they are walking into when it comes to getting a new family edition, especially now that there are sooooo many bybs and puppy mills all around the country.


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## spoofan

Cantope and Bijou are both respected breeders with great reputation.
I have met several poodles from both and they were lovely.
A friend of mine has a spoo from Bijou and could not be happier with the support she gets from the breeder who seems to genuinely care about poodles.
BUT...of course I am not an expert by any means,nor do I pretend to be.
Good luck with your search for the perfect standard poodle.


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## amerique2

I know, Lockett, you are not looking for a red or brown poodle but just wanted to share my experience with Bijou Poodles. I have corresponded with the breeder numerous times over the past 2-3 months. I have asked many questions, and she has been very generous with helpful advice not only in regards to her poodles but showing and breeding in general. And she answers e-mails within a day, if not the hour. I have not seen her poodles in person, but her website is chockful of advice for buying, raising, grooming, feeding, birthing, (-you name it-), poodles. I appreciate all the work she has put into the website and feel it mirrors what she puts into her breeding program.


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## cuddleparty

whoa... why ya'll gettin' bent out of shape? forums can get funny, because people get self-righteous. locket is just asking round for a reputable breeder. she knows what she is after and i'm certain she will take all this advice into consideration to make a decision. geez, she's already said she isn't jazzed about the idea of this "bijou" place. 
sure, some of ya'll may have made some valid points,... then it just gets carried away. so let's make this thread about Locket again, and her search for a breeder, and less about ya'll flexing your knowledge and ego's about poodle breeders and such.. start that argument in a new thread. 

now, back to Locket and her original query...


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## Jet & Bella's Mom

My Bella came from Cantope and I can't say enough good things about them. I had several long telephone conversations with Diane before I even met her in person. Last March ('09) my husband was willing to come with me to meet them and see their location. I had thoughts of getting a red puppy which they had a litter of that was 2 weeks old. True, that day we would not have been able to see those puppies because they kept them in isolation with their mom because of their age, but I wanted to meet Diane in person and see their location. We came home with Bella who was 5 months old. Much better idea in hindsight because it meant that Jet who was 5 could play with her sooner (under supervision of course).

I've met several Cantope poodles and their owners are happy with them, as am I with Bella. That contrasted with Jet's breeder. When Jet was 5 months old we learned that his lower canines were not coming in symetrically, they were growing into his palette. It was due to a genetic issue. When I callled his breeder and told her that the problem could cost me at least $2,000, her words were "you won't get any money out of me, I'm broke". She was a Life member of the CKC, had been breeding for 30 years. I'm grateful that we got Jet and not a young family or he probably would have been put down - we could afford the orthodontics. She offered to take him back and replace him. Right, that little guy had become a family member and I wasn't giving him back, probably to be put down. He was in my heart the first time I met him when he was 5 weeks old. 

I've heard comments that Cantope has lots of litters. Well, they have lots of poodles, so it makes sense that they would have a few litters a year. I was there a week ago Friday with Bella and Jet for a grooming lesson. They had 2 litters. I went into the main house from the grooming building to use the bathroom and had to disintect my shoes and I wasn't anywhere near where the puppies were. They take every care with their dogs. When we took Bella back 3 or 4 months after getting her for boarding for a weekend with Jet she saw Peter and it was like old home week! She was so affectionate with him that it was like she had never left. That tells me that each Cantope puppy is treated with love until it goes to it's forever home. Cantope is at least 90 minutes from my home (with good traffic on the toll highway) but I wouldn't board my dogs anywhere else. I know at Cantope they are in good hands. They actually board poodles in their home.

Just my two cents.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

Jet & Bella's Mom said:


> My Bella came from Cantope and I can't say enough good things about them. I had several long telephone conversations with Diane before I even met her in person. Last March ('09) my husband was willing to come with me to meet them and see their location. I had thoughts of getting a red puppy which they had a litter of that was 2 weeks old. True, that day we would not have been able to see those puppies because they kept them in isolation with their mom because of their age, but I wanted to meet Diane in person and see their location. We came home with Bella who was 5 months old. Much better idea in hindsight because it meant that Jet who was 5 could play with her sooner (under supervision of course).
> 
> I've met several Cantope poodles and their owners are happy with them, as am I with Bella. That contrasted with Jet's breeder. When Jet was 5 months old we learned that his lower canines were not coming in symetrically, they were growing into his palette. It was due to a genetic issue. When I callled his breeder and told her that the problem could cost me at least $2,000, her words were "you won't get any money out of me, I'm broke". She was a Life member of the CKC, had been breeding for 30 years. I'm grateful that we got Jet and not a young family or he probably would have been put down - we could afford the orthodontics. She offered to take him back and replace him. Right, that little guy had become a family member and I wasn't giving him back, probably to be put down. He was in my heart the first time I met him when he was 5 weeks old.
> 
> I've heard comments that Cantope has lots of litters. Well, they have lots of poodles, so it makes sense that they would have a few litters a year. I was there a week ago Friday with Bella and Jet for a grooming lesson. They had 2 litters. I went into the main house from the grooming building to use the bathroom and had to disintect my shoes and I wasn't anywhere near where the puppies were. They take every care with their dogs. When we took Bella back 3 or 4 months after getting her for boarding for a weekend with Jet she saw Peter and it was like old home week! She was so affectionate with him that it was like she had never left. That tells me that each Cantope puppy is treated with love until it goes to it's forever home. Cantope is at least 90 minutes from my home (with good traffic on the toll highway) but I wouldn't board my dogs anywhere else. I know at Cantope they are in good hands. They actually board poodles in their home.
> 
> Just my two cents.



I am thrilled that you experience with Cantope has been positive and good. I am going to go out on a major limb here and say that Cantope has likely had its share of ups and downs. When you breed and sell the numbers of pups they breed and sell you are bound to have some very happy people you have done business with, and some very unhappy people you have done business with. (And it is more than a couple of litters. If you go to their web site right now, they have seven pups available from a four month old litter, 5 pups available from a three month old litter, 3 from a March 10th litter unspoken for, 5 from a March 18th litter unspoken for with another litter expected any day, a litter expected the start of June and another expected mid June). Nobody has come on here and said there place is not clean. Everyone's beef is the sheer number of puppies they produce in a year. Historically over the past couple of years, they have been producing about a litter per month, and lately the average has been considerably higher than that. It doesn't matter how many dogs you have, why does anyone NEED to produce THAT many puppies? There is something pursuading them to do it, and I am pretty certain most people would know what that might be.

I have a history with Peter and Dianne Welsh, and so does my brother and so did my late Mother, and upon my Mother's death so did the rest of my family. Our stories are not pleasant and our experiences were not as nice as yours. I would love to go into detail, but feel this is not the place to share our stories. 

Not so long ago, they were a much smaller volume operation, and they seemed to be doing things right. Now, it is hard for another breeder to comprehend why someone would continue to breed more dogs and bring more puppies into things while they still have so many puppies that need to be placed, and some at such an age.

You said something that has stuck in my craw. You talk about the main house. I know they have done a lot of work to the property and have added many outbuildings which house some of the dogs and puppies. Can you tell me how puppies can be properly socialized when they are living in separate buildings, and are there just two people caring for them?

I don't think any breeders who get their panties in a twist about Cantope do so because of sour grapes. I cannot even imagine having an operation with such a high volume of puppies going through it in a given year. That is the last thing I would want for me. I want to KNOW my puppies, KNOW my buyers, have an opportunity to love each and every puppy I produce and know they are getting the best I have to offer because their presence in my life and my home is special....not a "job", not paying the bills, not the biggest source of income I have.


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## Jet & Bella's Mom

By the main house I meant that they have a separate building for their grooming business. I also expect a lot of the other buildings are for their boarding business.

On Bella's first birthday she received a birthday card from Cantope with a questionnaire asking how she was, if there were any issues, etc. I like that follow-up. 

We put the fact that they had a couple of five month old puppies down to the fact that the markets crashed in the fall of 2008. There are also advantages to getting a puppy that is a bit older - a lot less of the early puppy stuff - it also worked well because Jet was able to play with her sooner (supervised of course).

Her recall was really good when we got her so she obviously got attention at Cantope even though she was an older puppy.

But each person has their own experience which forms their opinions. I'm a Cantope fan and wouldn't try to change anyone else's opinion.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

And like I said, nice for you that your experience was a positive one. But when you are talking such high volume, there will be goodly number of people who were not happy too. I would not try to change your opinion either.


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## Jessie's Mom

i don't have a recommendation as i come from brooklyn, ny but i'm happy to follow this thread and kinda living vicariously through you right now.  i would love to have more than one spoo.....good luck and take your time.


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## Jessie's Mom

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> I am thrilled that you experience with Cantope has been positive and good. I am going to go out on a major limb here and say that Cantope has likely had its share of ups and downs. When you breed and sell the numbers of pups they breed and sell you are bound to have some very happy people you have done business with, and some very unhappy people you have done business with. (And it is more than a couple of litters. If you go to their web site right now, they have seven pups available from a four month old litter, 5 pups available from a three month old litter, 3 from a March 10th litter unspoken for, 5 from a March 18th litter unspoken for with another litter expected any day, a litter expected the start of June and another expected mid June). Nobody has come on here and said there place is not clean. Everyone's beef is the sheer number of puppies they produce in a year. Historically over the past couple of years, they have been producing about a litter per month, and lately the average has been considerably higher than that. It doesn't matter how many dogs you have, why does anyone NEED to produce THAT many puppies? There is something pursuading them to do it, and I am pretty certain most people would know what that might be.
> 
> I have a history with Peter and Dianne Welsh, and so does my brother and so did my late Mother, and upon my Mother's death so did the rest of my family. Our stories are not pleasant and our experiences were not as nice as yours. I would love to go into detail, but feel this is not the place to share our stories.
> 
> Not so long ago, they were a much smaller volume operation, and they seemed to be doing things right. Now, it is hard for another breeder to comprehend why someone would continue to breed more dogs and bring more puppies into things while they still have so many puppies that need to be placed, and some at such an age.
> 
> You said something that has stuck in my craw. You talk about the main house. I know they have done a lot of work to the property and have added many outbuildings which house some of the dogs and puppies. Can you tell me how puppies can be properly socialized when they are living in separate buildings, and are there just two people caring for them?
> 
> I don't think any breeders who get their panties in a twist about Cantope do so because of sour grapes. I cannot even imagine having an operation with such a high volume of puppies going through it in a given year. That is the last thing I would want for me. I want to KNOW my puppies, KNOW my buyers, have an opportunity to love each and every puppy I produce and know they are getting the best I have to offer because their presence in my life and my home is special....not a "job", not paying the bills, not the biggest source of income I have.


i have a question: are their dogs AKC registered? not to sound stupid, but not sure if that applies in Canada. with this type of production going on, how are they NOT considered a puppy mill? are they just "indiscriminate breeders". jessie's breeder was found to be "indiscriminate" and they lost their akc rights as a result. beautiful dogs, but........


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

Jet & Bella's Mom said:


> By the main house I meant that they have a separate building for their grooming business. I also expect a lot of the other buildings are for their boarding business.
> 
> On Bella's first birthday she received a birthday card from Cantope with a questionnaire asking how she was, if there were any issues, etc. I like that follow-up.
> 
> We put the fact that they had a couple of five month old puppies down to the fact that the markets crashed in the fall of 2008. There are also advantages to getting a puppy that is a bit older - a lot less of the early puppy stuff - it also worked well because Jet was able to play with her sooner (supervised of course).
> 
> Her recall was really good when we got her so she obviously got attention at Cantope even though she was an older puppy.
> 
> But each person has their own experience which forms their opinions. I'm a Cantope fan and wouldn't try to change anyone else's opinion.


Sorry to be a drone, but they have quite a few older pups now, and apparently our market has recovered quite nicely. I put it down to the numbers of pups going through there. You are bound to saturate the market at some point in time.

Their puppies are all Canadian Kennel Club registered. If you sell unregistered dogs, the kennel club revokes your membership.


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## Jet & Bella's Mom

Cherie, I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Cantope, my experience was exceptional. I wish you could share what happened between you and Cantope. It really isn't fair to post comments like that but not explain - it puts the other breeder at a disadvantage. Share the experience so that others can reach their own conclusions.

I think what anyone should do with any breeder is visit the breeder, meet them, see their dogs and what the environment is like and then make your decision. Ask lots of questions. And if you see a partcular poodle you like, ask the owner who the breeder was and what they thought of their experience. I remember speaking to one breeder and when she said her guarantee was void if I vaccinated my dogs or gave heartworm preventative treatment I wrote her off. Not because of the contract because every breeder's contract I've ever seen just talks about replacing the puppy and who would give back a puppy - it's a live being, not a stereo, so I don't consider contracts of much value. 

Does the breeder take the time to talk to you and answer questions before you buy the dog. If they won't take the time to talk to you before, will they bother after they have your money?

As I said, I've had two breeder experiences, one was good, one was not. And I'm sure the breeder I had my bad experience with had other customers who had good experiences with her. I learned after my first experience to ask lots of questions when I got my second puppy.

To the person who asked about registration, yes, Cantope's poodles are registered with the Canadian Kennel Club and they are also members of the Poodle Club of Canada.


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## roxy25

Jet & Bella's Mom ... Just watch the dates! This thread is very OLD 

feel free to make a new thread if you see old threads that are over 6 months old.


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## *heather*

lol Roxy, I was just about to mention how old this thread is!


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## roxy25

*heather* said:


> lol Roxy, I was just about to mention how old this thread is!


LOL I was reading it and was like wth .... then I saw the dates hahaha


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## *heather*

roxy25 said:


> LOL I was reading it and was like wth .... then I saw the dates hahaha


Same here! The Ontario part caught my attention and then as I started reading I had major deja vu .. and like you, I was like WTH!!


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## Jet & Bella's Mom

I didn't even notice the date sorry - just saw the Ontario part and posted. Blushing here.


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## Locket

Haha, this was before Mitchy joined us!!! I got my second spoo much sooner than I ever expected!


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