# Suggestions for working bloodlines?



## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

There aren't many breeders on this board. You might consider asking your question to some of the Facebook groups, or directly contacting a breeder you know and trust and networking through them.


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

By guardian do you mean protection/bitework? Poodles are pretty versatile dogs, but to my knowledge that is not a commonly pursued sport/activity. Hunting, field work, obedience, and herding are more in the poodle wheelhouse, I think. And tracking. 

I would probably talk to Jac Harbour, Tudorose Poodles in Oregon, as she has produced a number of working dogs (mostly field, but also some high level Obedience). 

This is going to sound weird on a poodle forum, but are you sure you want a poodle? I might go for a giant schnauzer if I wanted a low/no shedding breed for that sort of work.


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

Verve, I guess my certainty just depends on whether or not I can find the right puppy. I've known & assisted with proofing on training of two Standard Poodle males who were full guardian trained (yes, bitework). They were very stable dogs & very intelligent. They were also careful with their feet & always thinking so on the night when they had a break in, the nanny cams caught the action. They weren't playing a game, they were guardians. Nice dogs. Very aloof with strangers. So I know it existed - at least it once did. I've spoken with a breeder in Ireland who has Standards who have gone for titles in Schutzhund (I have no idea if the dogs titled). In sport it's an uphill battle because there's so much breed snobbery in SOME clubs. Personally when I was involved in sport, I didn't give a fig if you came in with a Doberman or a Scottish Terrier. I was glad you were doing something with your dog & provided the best of my services to ensure the best was brought out of the dog. But not all trainers/helpers/clubs feel as I do. I've been a professional trainer for a lot of years. I see far too many dogs being dumped over human stupidity. Even if I got a pup full of potential & she can't do the job... she still has a home & we'll find her a different job. My dogs are my family.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

There is a Facebook group called Poodle Prospects for Performance Sports that may be more help to you.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

One of our reasons for getting a Standard was as a watch dog or at least a dog large enough to look like a deterrent. Buck watches the security cameras and alarms if there is a vehicle at the gate, patrols the perimeters, notices any change at all on the property, can hear a vehicle at our gate if he doesn't spot it on the camera. He's from conformation lines, but in more experienced training hands, he could be more than that. We have a member who hasn't posted in a while but completed one or two of the schutzhund phases with her dog, Flynn. (I think.) With the right puppy description I believe you can find a poodle in the U.S. from conformation lines and wouldn't rule them out in your search.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Way back when, YaddaLovesPoodles found a working line somewhere in the mountains in Europe. They got slagged a bit in here for their unusual(?) conformation but they were papered, working Standard Poodles.


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

Spindledreams, I have applied to the facebook group. Thank you for mentioning it. I had to search for years to find the male Doberman I had years ago. So I know what I'm in for on the search. Back when I was on the hunt for my male Doberman (years ago) it was a 10 year search & looked at dogs/puppies from over 2500 kennels world wide. Found my boy in Florida. 

Mfmst, your type of dog is one of the reasons I haven't given up. I've seen the Standards who will work like that. I had a Malinois & a couple of Dobermans who worked on a higher plane than most dogs do. Very intelligent. It's why I still search. If the Flynn you mentioned is the one I know of, he's gotten his BH in Schutzhund. (At least that's the information I got from corresponding with his breeder). I haven't found where he's gotten SchH I yet. Good looking dog. IT's funny you mention the conformation lines. My Giant comes from conformation show lines, pedigree full of champions. You can bet I got a lot of grief off my working dog friends for this however it didn't take long for them to see the error of their ways. She's been guarding me since she came off the plane. One frustration is the breed takes a LONG time to mature. It's 3 years before you reach the point you can ease off on praying you'll survive them & about the time they turn 5, you get perfection 

Countryboy, I'll have to see if I can make a connection. I here ya about the looks department. A good many don't realize that the dogs many generations back weren't the beauties they are today yet without those dogs, we wouldn't have ours today. Used to get a lot of guff over some of the Beaucerons I'd work with. I just smile & go on. Depending on what the breeder is working to improve, those dogs still need training, good homes & excellent handlers.


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## DivinityPoodles (Jan 23, 2012)

We are now Divinity Poodles and are expecting a litter in about a week that will have lovely working/performance prospects. Dam is a Tudorose dog and sire is a Yadda dog. 
Please visit our website & feel free to contact us if you are interested.

https://www.divinitypoodles.com/


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

When I was breeding standards, most of my dogs were excellent protection dogs. They were the Jaylee poodles - Wycliffe and Bel Tor bloodlines. I even did a little beginning Schutzhund with one of them.

I suspect black standards are rather more likely to be good protection dogs than any other color. Have others of you noticed that, to some degree, temperament and color are related?


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

Three breeders I would suggest you speak with are Tudorose (Jac Harbour), Jaci Bowman and the breeders she works with (Oakwind), and Linda Miller (Valentine). All breed and have all produced many high-level working dogs (both aspects are important given what you are looking for). I believe Jaci and Linda are active on the Poodles Prospects for Performance FB group. Jac has a more limited FB presence.


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## RylieJames (Feb 3, 2016)

I just saw a facebook message about an available pup that reminded me about this thread, so I thought I would come post it here. I don't know about this breeder personally, but from the looks of it, they seem reputable. This was the message:



> Vikki Kauffman has a high drive female 10 week old Poodle girl who needs a sport home. Looks like a fabulous litter!!!
> https://alchmy.me/alchmy-blogs/
> 
> Due to unforeseen circumstances I might have a performance puppy available from my Phoenix x Ally litter. Phoenix is a German Schutzhund dog (BH3) and Ally was the #1 dock diving poodle in the country 2016 and the #2 JWW Powerdog 24" poodle in the country 2016. This is a very special litter to say the least. It has wonderful VGL diversity, fully tested parents (and then some) and has been raised with a tremendous amount of mental and physical stimulation. If you or you know anyone who might be interested in a female please PM me. They will be 10 weeks this weekend and the others are going to their new homes.
> ...



The facebook page is: https://www.facebook.com/Anutta-Standard-Poodles-264637283546803/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Wow! That sounds like a wonderful opportunity to obtain a good working poodle!


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## Baloog (Jan 3, 2017)

I've met with this breeder. She was my top choice of breeder because of all the testing she does for her pups and how much socialization she does. She also telemetry tests. Her dogs are beautiful. 

The only reason I ended up not getting a pup war because her pups were too high drive for what I was looking for. 

I highly recommend her dogs.


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## Baloog (Jan 3, 2017)

Temperament test not telemetry test lol. I'm typing on my phone


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

If only I spoke Russian or knew someone over there. These folks would probably be producing what I'm looking for. Does anyone know if someone has dog or dogs from this kennel over here in the US?

Дрессировка ??????????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ??????

I'm sorry I don't know what's up with the ????? thingy. When I click on it, it takes you to the Russian website of some serious working Standards.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

the last rectangle on the left of the first page tells you how to contact them. you could try an email. i notice a cantope dog mentioned if you click on the first rectangle, which includes 'news' items, but they seem to be for 2015 and earlier. since cantope is canadian, i imagine english and/or french communications might be possible. though i suppose nothing excludes cantope breeders being fluent in russian.


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

I got a response back from the breeder in Russia. It seems they'd be quite happy to sell a puppy to me but the permit to export the pup to the U.S. takes a minimum of 4 months & quite expensive. But she suggested that I search for Spoos from the following lines/kennels:

Torres (America)
Cantope (Canada)
Altariels(Germany)

In that breeder's opinion, the first two have a lot of hunting dogs yet have dogs with what it takes to be guardians. Altariels, which I am having a bit of a time finding much of anything on, is apparently where the strongest guardian line of Standards are. I'm also not finding anything on Torres. I don't know if this will produce anything but I'm searching.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

have you tried facebook? a number of breeders seem to have moved to facebook. i suppose it's cheaper than having to pay for internet hosting and easier to keep up one's account than updating pages. i don't do facebook, but i have noticed the shift if i just do a google search - more searches lead to facebook accounts.


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

Okay, with crossed fingers, I'm going Wednesday (6/12/19) to meet some Standard Poodles who are active guardians. They have a litter of puppies & IF everything lines up... I may have found my working SPOO. And get this the lady does her health testing too! (If you're wondering I am doing a happy dance on this end of the computer). Stay tuned... we'll see if THIS will be the one


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

If you heard trumpets sounding, saw parades going by.... it's because I FOUND MY SPOO! Yipee!!!!!! And I know everyone thinks their pup is great but I've decided my pup is perfect, LOL. Honestly this is the easiest pup I've ever had. This was a most unlikely find but my oh my. The parents to my pup have put an intruder out of the house & when I met them, I wanted to jump for joy. These are not aggressive dogs, they simply are willing to protect what's theirs. The male was all teeth & growls & his owner called him by name, said "it's okay" & let him out. He raced up to me, reared up, came nose to nose with me without touching me with a paw. Very very confident dog & he'd decided I was okay before he ever got near me. Apparently this isn't a normal greeting from him. The female as it goes not so trusting. She let me know that she would accept her human's orders but she was NOT letting me off the hook. If I goofed I was Poodle dental floss. I rather liked her moxie & it bodes well for her pups for the job I want.

My new puppy is ultra confident like his dad & I am completely in love!


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Congratulations, What are your plans for this puppy?


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Congrats! Sounds like you found what you were hoping for!


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Wow, those are the opposite types of parents I would be looking for (both of my dogs have the sweetest parents), but you found what you wanted and I hope your pup continues to be easy to train. Even though Frosty's parents are sweet and outgoing, he would protect me with his life. But he'll always give people the benefit of the doubt until they become a threat. That's how I like 'em. 

I'm also curious about your plans for your pup. And, would love to see a pic


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

congratulations! waiting for you to tell us where you found wonderdog and who his breeder is. you could be helping someone else out in the future.


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

MaizieFrosty, because I was looking for a puppy with a guardian skillset, it's important that the parents have talent in that department. They do in spades yet were not vicious or suffering from useless aggression. The dam is just a very strong alpha female yet her humans are king & queen in her eyes.

patk, my puppy came from Jan Montgomery of Oklahoma City. She is particular in choosing owners for her puppies. She & her husband are awesome. 

Future plans, oh boy. It's been a long time since I've had a pup who is eager to try & likes leash work. My Giant would rather have her toe nails yanked out than work on leash. Oh she'll do it but with her ears flat & a look on her face like, "yeah, I'll do it but you're going to know how much "fun" I think it is". So it's nice to have this pup who already in just a few days shown me he just likes to do whatever I'm up to. I've tested him a bit on nose work. He's not keen on retrieving or fetch. I don't do speed agility but I do use a type of working agility like the very old military dogs did. It's purpose is to teach a dog to work with the handler & to think their way through it. He's far too young to do any climbing or jumping but I can start him on the low level stuff. One old tire is good for several things & that's where I'll start him. It's an easy way to teach obedience in a more interesting way & because it's always different & changing they don't get bored. My hope is that I will be able to train my boy in working agility, mantracking, article recovery work. Who knows, maybe some day I can go back to volunteering to help local/state police.

We will be working on farm work. Job #1 is learning that chickens are NOT for chasing. He flunked this pretty quick but he's a pup & they freaked out which did NOT help. So I've got him out on the check line where I can bump the collar & already he is watching them rather than running at them. Our birds are young & sort of freaked out when they saw a dog in the yard that wasn't their dogs. So that didn't help. Last night he helped me herd them all along the fencing which was pretty cool. So herding might be fun in our future.

I'd also like to get a kayak & working with him on the water. If he has an aptitude for it, I might work with him on scent work there. We live on the lake.

He walks like John Wayne, so I've named him after a character he portrayed, Mr. Layne. So it's exciting not only to finally have my Standard Poodle with potential to be a guardian but who also likes to do stuff together. He's off lead, sleeping at my feet under my desk. My husband has said probably a hundred times, "He's a GOOD puppy. We really got blessed with this one."


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

He is very precious. I love partis  However, I'm wondering if he's from the Jan Montgomery in Oklahoma City who also breeds doodles and registers with APRI and American Canine Hybrid Club?


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

It's possibly the same lady. I am aware of a litter of doodles (that would be singular). I am unaware of her actively breeding doodles. I was simply interested in a Standard Poodle with the right skill set for what I wanted. Personally, I don't get the doodle fascination. Then again I don't understand a lot of things people go crazy over.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

MandM Ranch Designs - Home I think the puppy named Brutus is dog savvy’s new puppy. Beautiful marking. I love black and white partis. 

Her dogs are registered with The American Canine Association (ACA). She has a facebook page Aussiedoodle by design. I think she’s a sheriff. She looks wonderful mounted on her horse in a photo on her website.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

just fyi, doodle breeders are not permitted to promote doodles at pf, though the dogs are not ostracized, since they had no part in their own creation. 

congrats again dogsavvy on finding your poodle. i hope he turns out to be everything you wanted. he's very cute, which is a good start.


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

patk said:


> just fyi, doodle breeders are not permitted to promote doodles at pf, though the dogs are not ostracized, since they had no part in their own creation.
> 
> congrats again dogsavvy on finding your poodle. i hope he turns out to be everything you wanted. he's very cute, which is a good start.


Thank you. I am quite pleased thus far. For the record (though patk did not accuse me of anything), I want to plainly say the question was asked & answered as to where I got the pup. No more no less, no promotion intended. When the pup is old enough to be well into training, I can say more about the dog's abilities & will share that information with the breeder & anyone who wants to know what I found from a dog from this breeding/breeder. 

For the moment he has me on cuteness overload


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

Oh my goodness, he is such a handsome little guy! Congrats on finding him!


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

dogsavvy, no digs at you as the one who both asked you to tell us who the breeder is and made the comment about doodle breeders not being welcome to 'advertise' here. i'm grateful you were willing to share info as too many times prospective owners stumble on a dog they like but the owner has left pf and is not available to share info. doodlers not being welcome is actually part of the pf rules and i mentioned it to help keep folks out of trouble re providing info in threads about how to contact the breeder, etc. (what they do by pm is not open to anyone else's comment). your pup's provenance will not be an issue with the decent members here who are, i believe, all interested to see if he turns out to fulfill the guardian function. keep us in the loop!


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

patk said:


> dogsavvy, no digs at you as the one who both asked you to tell us who the breeder is and made the comment about doodle breeders not being welcome to 'advertise' here. i'm grateful you were willing to share info as too many times prospective owners stumble on a dog they like but the owner has left pf and is not available to share info. doodlers not being welcome is actually part of the pf rules and i mentioned it to help keep folks out of trouble re providing info in threads about how to contact the breeder, etc. (what they do by pm is not open to anyone else's comment). your pup's provenance will not be an issue with the decent members here who are, i believe, all interested to see if he turns out to fulfill the guardian function. keep us in the loop!


Thank you. Glad to know we're still welcome. I have gotten such grief for even wanting a Standard Poodle as a working dog. I mean a lot of grief including people asking if I was mentally okay. Yeesh, it's a Standard Poodle not a Pekinese. 

I got a lot of grief when I purchased my Giant from a show kennel. Her pedigree is FULL of champions. My biggest critic thought he'd show me how stupid I'd been & got hit in the leg, knocked on his duff, got a severe headache, and the dog blacked his eye by punching him with her nose. I never touched him, that was all the pup. That's not counting the scratches because Giants play & fight with their front feet much like a bear does. Brutal power. I don't know why this man thought he was going to prove it & risk ruining my pup... she was only 6 months old. She'd been with me for a whole 30 days. I pulled up a chair (he was lying on the ground with a Giant pup on his chest) & asked if we needed to 'continue' the conversation. He looked at me & said, "what conversation?" I replied, "Well, you thought you'd show me... you got aggressive with my show puppy & she answered you. I want to know if we need to further the conversation?" I looked around & asked the rest of the men if they had anything nasty to say about my show puppy. To which I got a lot of "no ma'ams" & a lot of low whistles & murmurs that would later make me laugh. To his credit, when he found out I was looking for a Standard Poodle, this same guy told me... "If anyone can do it, it's you." And that made me laugh.

Tonight I did my first handler lost with him. I'm home alone so I waited until he got busy sniffing & snoofing around. I hid & whistled. At first he did what most pups do which is run around looking. He went around the house & I just whistled now & again. He came flying & he was using his nose. Found me on the fly. I always tell my pups, "You gotta watch us humans. We get lost!" Now I can't repeat the exercise as he won't let me out of his sight.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Dogsavvy, I don’t understand what a guardian dog does, but I know several people who have been trained by the police to use their dogs to assist them as volunteers. 

Most dogs in the group are German Shepherds but they have some standard poodles. The dogs are trained to do nose work to detect drugs as well as take down criminals. Their dogs are also trained to bomb sniff. My friend was called in with one other team to sniff for bombs in a local high school that had a bomb threat called in. They are volunteers but they have insurance through an organization they belong to. 

Is this what you mean by a guardian dog?


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

Skylar,

What a guardian does is to protect human life & safety by whatever means necessary. On the lower end of the spectrum, the dog puts on a show that would deter a bad guy (person with bad intention be it a thief, attacker, etc..). This pup's mother is a prime example. Her eyes practically glow. She hits the door with an explosion of barks, growls, show of teeth, & gives the perceived bad human the impression that she would LOVE to floss her teeth on them. For most bad guys this is enough. There are other houses to rob that do not have evil, blood sucking dogs with big teeth & bigger attitudes. Most criminals in prison when interviewed admit that they want no attention drawn to their activities. A dog going nuts at an intruder definitely gets attention, especially by neighbors who know that dog only behaves that way when someone is there that shouldn't be. At the extreme opposite end of the spectrum of guardians job is the one that I always hope & pray none of my dogs or clients' dogs ever have to actually do despite being trained for it: that is to engage in combat with a bad human who is trying to hurt, rape, kill, etc... a human. The purpose is to stop the attack but if that's not possible the dog engages long enough to allow the good human to escape to safety & hopefully recall the dog. Saving the good person from death or further harm is the goal of the guardian. 

I owe my life to just such dogs. As a child I had multiple kidnapping attempts made on me while my father was in the hospital. As a teen I was attacked & my dog tracked me, bringing help which kept me from bleeding to death. And as an adult my guardians are peace of mind. I haven't lead a high risk life. As a child we were just an average farm family. We were not wealthy by monetary standards. As a teen, I didn't drink or do drugs or hang out with a bad crowd. I was attacked while horse-sitting our neighbor's horse who had to have his leg cleaned & dressed twice a day. We lived in what anyone would consider safe neighborhoods/areas. 

The guardian's purpose is to alert humans to danger. So if my dogs don't like someone, I am on high alert & it's not likely I'll truly trust. The guardian dog is better than a gun because you can recall the dog if there is a mistake but you can't recall a bullet. They are far more perceptive to changes in a human (good or bad) than we are. And most importantly the guardian can not be a dog prone to viciousness or just looking to make a bite. Yes he possesses aggression like a soldier possesses the ability to fight. He is intelligent & perceptive.

Sorry to ramble on but I hope it properly explains


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Wow he is a beautiful puppy! Yeah I see no promotion of doodles, lol we are talking about a beautiful st poodle and it appears you are doing so well with him already.


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

This morning I had him up on the groom table. I needed to give him a bit of a sanitary trim & decided to shorten his coat just a bit because his coat is catching everything so he's like a dust bunny. Keeping him clean & white in the country may be a job! While he was up on the table my husband had gone outside & walked past our window. Mr. Layne didn't know he'd gone outside & he came up off the table giving his best deep "woof...grrr….woof" to which I praised him "Good watch" & some petting. He didn't relax until my husband came inside & he saw who it was then he was wagging tail & happy puppy again. I like that he didn't go berserk like a Giant pup does. My Giant Schnauzer would have been scrambling to get to the window. Not Mr. Layne, he was very dignified in his duties & was content to glare & stare until he saw what was what. Baby steps


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

As there were several who were curious as to how my adventure would turn out I thought I'd give this thread occasional updates.

At 5 months old, I am quite pleased with Mr. Layne. He does not follow along with my female working dogs who bark. Now don't get me wrong, they have just cause to bark but he's more selective with his bark. Mr. Layne says, "Yeah.... right... those same dippy people were out there doing that yesterday being dippy." He will bark when those people are out of place. The FedEx truck came roaring up the other day & the Poodle pup was right alongside my Giant & it was all serious growls, barks, & lunging like a guard dog. As I was not home, my husband had to tell me about it but he said it was darned impressive. He's well socialized & gives every impression that he is mostly indifferent to strangers. He doesn't find them to be a threat so he sees no reason to make a fuss but any behavior he doesn't understand & he comes directly to me. He respects my leadership & is coming along very well.

He's a smart boy & it'll be a matter of if I can keep working his mind as well as his body, keep his trust & respect while guiding him thru training. Training a Doberman or Malinois or even a Giant Schnauzer can make you a little lazy in training because even one that doesn't fully understand the job can make a trainer look good. A dog like Mr. Layne is a bird of a different feather & he's keeping me on my toes.


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