# Fake Service Dogs - An End to Them?



## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

I don't think that any States proposing a law to control the abuse of the Service/Therapy moniker on dogs are gonna listen to a Canadian. But some of y'all in the US might want to encourage this move.

These 19 states are cracking down on fake service dogs | PBS NewsHour


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

This is an interesting and important topic and there are a number of us here who are directly interested in the outcomes of legislation like this and the possibility of registries for service dogs. One thing in the piece linked to that concerned me was that there was no discussion of handler/owner self trained service dogs. It did mention agency trained dogs and the high cost of their training, but not that owner handlers can do their own training. This is no less time intensive, but it does mean that people who might otherwise not have access to a fully trained dog could opt in that direction. It is really upsetting that so many people with really ill mannered (read spoiled) dogs like purse carried toy breeds try to pass them off as something that they clearly aren't. It does make access harder for people and dogs with legitimate needs.


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## Païllâsse (Jun 14, 2016)

Very interesting article. In Europe, service dogs are not that common and only people with severe disabilities do have one, and trend for therapy dog is not an issue since it does not exist... yet


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## Coco86 (Oct 23, 2014)

lily cd re said:


> This is an interesting and important topic and there are a number of us here who are directly interested in the outcomes of legislation like this and the possibility of registries for service dogs. One thing in the piece linked to that concerned me was that there was no discussion of handler/owner self trained service dogs. It did mention agency trained dogs and the high cost of their training, but not that owner handlers can do their own training. This is no less time intensive, but it does mean that people who might otherwise not have access to a fully trained dog could opt in that direction. It is really upsetting that so many people with really ill mannered (read spoiled) dogs like purse carried toy breeds try to pass them off as something that they clearly aren't. It does make access harder for people and dogs with legitimate needs.


My mom and I have seen people bring small puppies into Walmart (8 week’s old!). We’ve seen kittens in Walmart, and small dogs that people claimed were their “service dogs”, with no vests or collars. A few months ago a guy brought his cat into Winco, sitting on his shoulder, and he claimed it was his emotional support animal. The store didn’t buy it (neither did we) and I think they told him he could not have the cat in the store. 

I’ve only seen a couple people bring dogs into stores wearing the proper vests or tags, and they were leashed. A man in a wheelchair brought his Great Dane service dog into a favorite buffet restaurant of ours. His dog had tags and a vest, and laid beside the man in his chair the whole time.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Païllâsse said:


> Very interesting article. In Europe, service dogs are not that common and only people with severe disabilities do have one, and trend for therapy dog is not an issue since it does not exist... yet


I think it speaks to our American* need for crutches, and for our strange sense of entitlement.

*in the European sense - which would include Canada

And ya, C... that's a serious issue. But how many people have falsely claimed their dog, or bought a $10 Certificate online. IMO, it all boils down to a test... an hour or two with a trained, experienced evaluator. So sorry 'bout the $50 fee, but surely that's better than you and your dog being questioned at any time. No?


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## Jokerfest (Mar 23, 2017)

I live in NC, and my dog Jacob is a retired service dog. He worked 6 years.
He is registered with the state, here the department of health and human services keeps track of legit dogs. He is family/handler trained.

Despite there being a service dog registry in my state we still run into fakes constantly.
Just in my county alone I've run into dozens of fakes.
Elvis is currently in training, I dont talk about it much because I dont like to talk about my disabilities online. Online is my escape.
But living in one of the states in the article and having a legit registered dog I wanted to speak up and let people know they do accept handler trained dogs.
I also wanted to share that it's not making a difference here sadly and people still have fake dogs messing things up for everyone.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Jokerfest that is unfortunate that having a registry still doesn't discourage the fakers. Perhaps if there was more obvious enforcement of penalties for fakers the word would get around. Coco86 there is no actual requirement in the ADA that service dogs wear an "official" harness or other such identification, although it does help to have something on the dog that identifies it as not being simply a pet.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Païllâsse said:


> Very interesting article. In Europe, service dogs are not that common and only people with severe disabilities do have one, and trend for therapy dog is not an issue since it does not exist... yet


when I’ve visited Europe, places like France, Germany, Britain etc I saw many well behaved dogs out shopping with their owners that were not service dogs. There is no need for a "therapy" dog or pretending your dog is a service dog when well behaved dogs are allowed in stores and restaurants already. Here in US and Canada dogs are not allowed in most store and almost all restaurants. The same people who could take their dogs legitimately in a store in Europe has to "lie" or find another reason to do so here.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Païllâsse said:


> Very interesting article. In Europe, service dogs are not that common and only people with severe disabilities do have one, and trend for therapy dog is not an issue since it does not exist... yet


This is what I've seen as well. Our trainer said that one of her clients wanted to bring her small service dog to a European vacation with her but since our trainer is not a government recognized nonprofit program, the client could not bring their dog with them. European service dog requires licensing and typically only given to people with severe disabilities. When I lived there, their healthcare culture is very different from the United States and Canada. In many ways, I prefer their system. ADA here allow self-trained service dog and the reason behind that is to protect those with disability. It is a double edge sword because there are abusers.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

snow wouldn't that person have been able to bring her dog just as her dog? I understand that she wanted to dog for the support services, but she still should have been able to have the dog work for her even if she brought it as a pet. I know a person who has been on the AKC European agility team and she had no trouble bringing her dog and taking her all over with her. I think she also went to a big seminar in Norway and brought her younger BC boy on that trip.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

lily cd re said:


> snow wouldn't that person have been able to bring her dog just as her dog? I understand that she wanted to dog for the support services, but she still should have been able to have the dog work for her even if she brought it as a pet. I know a person who has been on the AKC European agility team and she had no trouble bringing her dog and taking her all over with her. I think she also went to a big seminar in Norway and brought her younger BC boy on that trip.


I don't know but that is a good point. My trainer didn't say because she was the one who told me about the story. I don't know the old couple who is my trainer's client.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

The argument I usually see brought up with service dog testing and certification is that many disabled people in the US live in rural areas. They also tend to be concentrated, statistically, in low-income areas. Those two factors mean they're less likely to have access to a certified trainer, as there's less likely to be a specialized trainer in their area and they're less likely to be able to travel.

I can't speak for Canada, but physical proximity to things often factors into US disability issues in ways it doesn't in Europe because of our lack of public transportation infrastructure outside of urban centers. Cultural attitudes toward dogs in public is a factor too, but there are practical reasons why we have more service dogs than they do.

I'd rather we found ways to empower businesses to challenge badly-behaved service dogs without fear of retaliation, rather than making it harder for people who need a service dog to get one.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

I just got back from Whole Foods with my dog Lucky. There was a golden retriever waiting outside the double doors with her owner. Lucky would normally ignore them but he didn’t go out to play. He saw the dog and did a happy jump while in his vest. I wonder in situations like that, people would assume he isn’t a trained service dog. I wonder if people expect them to behave very mechanically. I would say this is true 80-90% of the time.


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## Païllâsse (Jun 14, 2016)

Very interesting, I never realised that dogs were banned from so many public places in the US. 
In France and Switzerland, countries where I both live, I take my dog almost everywhere without any issue. 
Only places that sell food, hospitals, some restaurants and movies theatre do not accept dogs.
However it is common for the shops to fix leash hooks in front of the store to allow people to let their dog wait outside while we shop.
This summer I went to northern Italy and I had no issue to find accommodations welcoming pets, with no charge.
I went to every restaurants with my spoo after kindly asking the authorisation from the owner, but I have to say that my dog is very well mannered.
Personally I take my spoo with me at the local wallmart, and waits for me at the main entrance just after the counters while I do shopping.
It is a very common thing, and most of the time, you can see a line a dogs waiting for their owner at the entrance of the food section of the supermarket.
I thought that the issue of the “therapy dogs” in the US was about people trying to travel with their pets on planes at no extra cost.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Païllâsse said:


> Very interesting, I never realised that dogs were banned from so many public places in the US.
> In France and Switzerland, countries where I both live, I take my dog almost everywhere without any issue.
> Only places that sell food, hospitals, some restaurants and movies theatre do not accept dogs.
> However it is common for the shops to fix leash hooks in front of the store to allow people to let their dog wait outside while we shop.
> ...


People do cheat on planes and their dogs. A friend of mine was on a flight where there was a man with a very beautifully groomed Saluki. She thought pretty clearly that the dog was a conformation show dog that the owner/handler didn't want flying as cargo. He had bought a ticket for the dog to have its own seat and was claiming it was a service dog. This friend has been a show handler so I trust that she believed correctly that the dog was a show dog. It was apparently around a time of year where there are lots of national breed club specialties.

Therapy dogs are separate from service dogs and emotional support dogs. A therapy dog is one trained to make visits in nursing homes, schools, libraries and the like where they give comfort and support to the people there. For example a therapy dog trained to relax in a gaggle of children who are learning to ready by reading out loud to the dog ( a less scary audience than an adult person). An emotional support dog may provide comfort to a person with a psychological condition, but is not a service dog and is not necessarily trained to do specific tasks. Therapy dogs and emotional support dogs are not permitted to go everywhere with their handlers. A qualified service dog is considered to be like a piece of medical equipment needed for the welfare of the person and not only trained to be obedient and well mannered in public, but also trained to do two or more specific tasks that assist the person with their disability. They can obviously do very well known things like guiding people who are visually impaired. But also are trained for alerting hearing impaired people, providing mobility assistance, alerting to impending seizures, alerting a diabetic of high and/or low blood sugar levels and calming people with post traumatic stress disorder when anxiety provoking memory triggers are encountered among many other unique and specialized tasks.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

oops sorry a duplicate post, not sure how I made that happen.


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

Coco86 said:


> My mom and I have seen people bring small puppies into Walmart (8 week’s old!). We’ve seen kittens in Walmart, and small dogs that people claimed were their “service dogs”, with no vests or collars. A few months ago a guy brought his cat into Winco, sitting on his shoulder, and he claimed it was his emotional support animal. The store didn’t buy it (neither did we) and I think they told him he could not have the cat in the store.
> 
> I’ve only seen a couple people bring dogs into stores wearing the proper vests or tags, and they were leashed. A man in a wheelchair brought his Great Dane service dog into a favorite buffet restaurant of ours. His dog had tags and a vest, and laid beside the man in his chair the whole time.


you are allowed to bring dogs into Walmart as long as they are in the cart an don a blanket. they dont have to be a service dog


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

Pamela, I have heard the opposite. That all dogs in Walmart are NOT allowed in the carts because people put food inside the carts. That's is what I heard about our local Walmarts. I desparately wish that Walmart would start enforcing ada rules. My friends SD was attacked by a lab inside our Walmart and the owner just acted like nothing was going on. The SD did not even snarl at the lab but she was bitten several times and is now much more wary of other dogs. I wouldn't dare bring my puppy into Walmart when we begin her sd training. People around here who bring their pets in are just clueless.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

It probably depends on what they sell at your local walmart. Sometimes you can allow dogs around packaged food if there's no risk of the dog interacting with the actual food items.

I wish all businesses would be both more pet-friendly AND better about expelling unruly dogs. Seems like they're too afraid to lose customers (or get unwanted negative publicity) and that's why it's easier to just have blanket rules.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

My Walmart has a sign about not putting dogs in the shopping cart.

Last year, Illinois had a bill about service dog licenses. Scroll to the bottom to read it. Illinois General Assembly - Full Text of HB5807

It died in committee. 

A lot of people objected because it's more restrictive than the federal ADA statute. Also there's this wording.

The Department shall establish a service dog license
25 program under which a dog acting as a service dog shall be
26 licensed. The Department shall adopt rules requiring that:
1 (1) the service dog respond to commands, which shall
2 include basic obedience and skilled tasks from the client
3 90% of the time on the first ask in all public and home
4 environments

How would I demonstrate skilled tasks for an evaluation? Do I inject insulin, trigger a deliberate low blood sugar, wait for Noelle to pat my knee, then eat a jar of Nutella, wait for Noelle to pat my other knee, inject a boatload of insulin to fix the high, then rip out my insulin pump set and wait for Noelle to notice leaking insulin? 

Let me think about that. No. I suppose I could have her distinguish the scents in containers, but that's not what the bill said. 

Demonstrate tasks, how, and of course, to whom?

Then we get into the sticky tangle of who certifies the certifiers? CGC evaluators? They're easy to find in the the Chicago area. But, what about in Hardin County? Population 348 in the county seat of Elizabethtown, Illinois. Where do they go to get a certification? It's a six hour drive from Chicago. And who pays for the evaluation? The handler? The state?

The practicality of licensing service dogs starts to break down pretty quickly. Fake service dogs remain a problem, and I am unsure how to solve it. The state could go nuclear and have your dog impounded and re-homed if you're caught faking. If that was the penalty, I think people would think twice before faking.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Click-N-Treat I also doubt that a state law that was more restrictive than a federal law would stand up to a court challenge. I am guessing that when the ADA was crafted and specifically spoke to the idea that a person could ask what tasks a service dog performs but not be required to have the dog demonstrate the tasks they knew what they were doing.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Good explanation of the categories of 'service' dogs, C. 

But this image amazed me...



Païllâsse said:


> However it is common for the shops to fix leash hooks in front of the store to allow people to let their dog wait outside while we shop.
> 
> ....and most of the time, you can see a line of dogs waiting for their owner at the entrance of the food section of the supermarket.


Somehow I can't picture an scene like this outside of American shops.


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