# Mika got a spanking last night....



## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

Yikes! Mine is a counter surfer as well. I'm hoping we'll be going over that in one of our next puppy training classes!


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## mercymoon (Aug 29, 2008)

Well Mika is 4 yrs. old, but the spanking she got last night she may
not wanna touch the human's "green paper" ever again!


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

so by spanking, does that mean you physically hit the dog? forgive me if that's a dumb question, I just wasn't sure that's what you actually meant.


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## mercymoon (Aug 29, 2008)

*heather* said:


> so by spanking, does that mean you physically hit the dog? forgive me if that's a dumb question, I just wasn't sure that's what you actually meant.



By spanking I meant popped her on the arse with an open hand, lol.

I *would never **hit* a dog, but I do believe in discipline when they've
done something wrong, nothing severe of course!


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

lol...thats actually kinda funny. Glad you were able to save the twenty though. 

I dont know if you've ever tried a rolled up piece of newspaper (secure it with a rubber band). I will pop my dogs with a rolled newpaper and boy do they hate it. Between the sound and the pop on the rear, its very effective and doesnt hurt them at all. So effective that my old Amstaff Malibu would get super hyper when we came home or when people visited. Im talking jumping from couch to couch or just on a couch in general. Anyhow, all I had to do is bring out the newspaper and say calm down boo-boo, and she was on her best behavior. lol I also would lay the newspaper on the egde of the couch cushion (maybe your counter top) when I was out or not watching to make sure she wouldnt get on the couch. It worked very well. 

You only have to pop them with it once or twice. After that I just used it occassionally as a reminder and it was always successful for us in training. Anyhow, hope she cuts that out soon. I dont have any counter surfer's here but believe me, they have attempted it before.


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

I'm glad you've found something that works for you, but I must say I regularly saw my best friend's mother smack her dogs with newspapers to get them back from the door, my entire childhood. They never learned, she just had to smack them with it everytime someone came over.  So I'm not sure how universally-affective that is.


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## mandi (May 13, 2009)

I just don't think I would ever hit my dog-I mean would they really understand why you are doing that? It just sounds abusive to me.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Oh MM, here goes the anti-spankers. lol I understand that your not beating your dog but a quick swat on the rear has never hurT a animal and they certainly dont like it. Next time, I'd just keep how you swatted Mika to yourself as this is going to become a huge contriversial thread. 

However, this just seems ridiculoius to me. Now days people get all offended if one even spanks a child. Good god! I grew up getting the belt when I got into trouble but I never once thought my parents obused using the belt nor did they obuse me. Now its frowned apon while these days crime rates are much higher then those years ago. Maybe because parents these days dont give good discipline. Same for unruly pets in my opinion. 

I hear people complain constantly about there hyper poodle/dogs and so forth. Then hear comes advise recommending clicker training, time outs, etc (not that these methods arent always effective) but they take much more time, patience and I dont have time for all that. I prefer quick straight forward discipline and its worked for me luckily.


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## maddiek (Nov 3, 2008)

A pop on the butt isn't going to hurt a dog. They get the message
if you do it at the appropriate time. That is not abuse.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

mandi said:


> I just don't think I would ever hit my dog-I mean would they really understand why you are doing that? It just sounds abusive to me.


Maybe if your dog is completely stupid they wouldnt get it. Its not like you swat them after the fact when they already done the deed and moved on. 

And it sounds abusive?? Seems to me there are much more serious REAL abuse situations going on in this world then a person swatting there dog on the rear end. 

Im sorry if I came of strong about your comment and your more then entitled to your opinion......some people just make me wonder.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

maddiek said:


> A pop on the butt isn't going to hurt a dog. They get the message
> if you do it at the appropriate time. That is not abuse.


You stated that in a much more appropriate manner then I did. lol


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## maddiek (Nov 3, 2008)

You are so right Secreto. Dogs know what they are getting spanked for if you catch them in the act. Just like kids. 

Don't call a pop on the rear end abuse. 

Leaving a dog in a hot car is abuse. Tying up a dog is abuse. BEATING a dog is abuse. Starving, no water, etc.....

Don't get me started.


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## maddiek (Nov 3, 2008)

I think we were posting at the same time. LOL


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## mandi (May 13, 2009)

Actually I raised 5 sons and I used a flyswatter and even a belt on occasion (when they were older). When I read the message about spanking her dog, I noted a few words such as 'stole the money' (does a dog know what stealing is?), 'talked with her later'-how does the dog know what the heck they are talking to her about later? And 'got a spank from me and hubby'-the dog didn't need 2 people to hit on her-I'm sorry but I used to see my ex hit our dogs and it made me furious-then later he started hitting me!


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## Sivaro (Sep 19, 2008)

Like Jenn, I use a newspaper. It doesnt hurt them, only hurts their pride.

Im known for the little spanking from time to time if newspaper isnt available, but mostly just growl at the dogs and they know when they have done something wrong.

Banks accept sticky tape on the notes when they have been ripped like this as long as all the pieces are there. Glad you could save them.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_i'm so sorry to hear that Mandi...I was married to a man who beat me both physically and mentally and it does tend to jade your view of things like that. I don't 'beat' my spoos but if i catch them doing something really bad, i pop them on the butt and tell them 'no' or 'leave it' or whatever is appropriate. Having been abused, it can be difficult to separate a well placed pop from the traumatic feelings left from beatings.

I understand the controversy of spanking. I raised six children and nearly all of them got a handle on the 'turn your parents in if they do this or that' by middle school. Two of them did just that and were taken out of my home. Three left by age 15. I was not allowed to raise my voice, touch them physically to prevent them from running away from home, or do anything effective to keep them from making a big mistake. I was told by the court, police, and state police that if I even put my arms around them at the age of 12 to keep them from leaving home, I would be locked up in jail. They were allowed to make their own decisions!!!!!! 

I was shocked, even horrified at this. This is why our children are completely out of control. Parents are not allowed by law to do anything to discipline their children...the children know it and make sure they educate any new ones who don't. And, they are very quick to throw it up in your face to keep YOU in line so they can do whatever they want.

But, I was also told after they took all of my parenting tools away from me, if any of them got into trouble, I would be brought into court and held responsible for them both as a parent and financially. So, what is wrong with this picture?!

My parents spanked us when we deserved it and we were very thoughtful about doing anything that was inappropriate in our behavior. I never thought of myself as being abused but as being disciplined for intentional bad behavior. I grew able to know the difference between what is acceptable and what is not and it has served me very well.

My story has a good ending...all of my children, by the time they were in their early 20's, called me to tell me what a huge mistake they had made, that the world was a big and scary place and they now understood what it was that i was trying to do to help them. Every one of them apologized for what they put me through during those years of separation. All is forgiven and we have moved on. Now they are dealing with their own children.

May God help us all.
_


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## mandi (May 13, 2009)

Yes-I empathize with you also-I taught for 20 years and know that children have gotten out of control because of the turns on 'spanking'. My 2nd family is now my dogs and I just love them so much. They give me laughter, forgiveness, and much affection. My sons have turned out so well and made me proud-but they have their own families now.


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

Growl at the dog? LOL. I hadn't thought of that but considering how well the squealing is working when she puts her teeth on is (I was told it would mimic the sound they make to eachother when play fighting gets too rough) I would imagine that would be really effective! Though my pup has never growled, I may wait and see on that b/c *I* don't want to teach it to her!


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_My spoos are also my second family....I told my husband that it has been so hard after having so many children to have no one in the house to have to fuss over. He understood my loneliness and was really good about me bringing home two spoos to raise with our golden. He always smiles and laughs when he watches me interact with them...they have given me a sense of motherhood again. I love my time with them and they love theirs with me.

My children are mostly around the states now and we don't get to see each other often but they stay in touch and I get to see each families' children once a year anyway. I'm proud of how they all turned out.

You had a tough profession. I admire you for doing it. Two of my sister-in-laws are teachers. One retired early because she couldn't deal with the kids anymore. The other can't wait to get out for that and the impossible parents. It is really sad and a bit frightening. Assuming you might be retired? If you are, hoping your enjoying it.
_


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

Sivaro said:


> Like Jenn, I use a newspaper. It doesnt hurt them, only hurts their pride.
> 
> Im known for the little spanking from time to time if newspaper isnt available, but mostly just growl at the dogs and they know when they have done something wrong.
> 
> Banks accept sticky tape on the notes when they have been ripped like this as long as all the pieces are there. Glad you could save them.


_That's really interesting. I have never heard that before. I wonder if it would get the point across with the spoos.....I might try the growling thing to see how they react to it._
_
Are your puppies all in new homes now? They were so beautiful!_


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## maddiek (Nov 3, 2008)

What a sad story, Spoospirit, but with a happy ending. 

Sometimes you wonder what this world is coming to.


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

I'm not completely opposed to a pop on the butt once in a while, the key question for me is, "is it changing the behaviour"? If you have to pop them on the butt every time someone comes to the door, it's time to change your training method IMO! _Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. _ (I think that was Einstein)


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

I agree that if it isn't effective, then you do need to change your method...not everything works for everyone. I know that dogs cannot think and rationalize like humans and effective methods are different for each dog. 

Billy is totally not food motivated so rewarding him with food for acceptable behavior is not an option with him. Clicker training seems to completely escape him...however, he is sensitive so if I raise my voice when he is doing something unacceptable, he responds because he doesn't like it when we are upset with him. He just wants to be loved and loved on.


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## mandi (May 13, 2009)

That's funny about the clicker training. I have done it with Levi and he responds really well-he is just so easy to train anyway. and, like yours, he is very sensitive so if you call him in a firm voice, he most likely will not come. I have to usse soft tones with him. He never has been a nipper or a chewer. Paulie, on the other hand, is a typical puppy-he runs off with slippers and nips alot. Yelling at him does nothing-so I will have to go inton some real leash training with him-(he's just 3 mos). He is very food-motivated-at the sound of a bag, he runs to me and sits (and it may not even be a treat bag!)


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

It's hard for me to imagine a dog not being food motivated (not that I am doubting you!). I don't even get much mileage out of practicing with my pup b/c unless there's a great distraction, once she figures out what I'm doing she sits at my feet staring up at me waiting for the 'click & treat.' LOL.


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## mandi (May 13, 2009)

Right-I figured out I pretty much have to carry treats in my pocket all day-they just get too smart!


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## mercymoon (Aug 29, 2008)

I'd just like to state hubby and Mika play together and hubby smacks her on the "bald" butt (lol) and she jumps around hyper and playing-I think a dog can tell the difference when you are playing and when you are serious!

Anti-spankers, LOL!

I agree Jenn, it is funny when I look back on the other night, the twenty
was saved with tape after all do no harm done.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

Bella's Momma said:


> It's hard for me to imagine a dog not being food motivated (not that I am doubting you!). I don't even get much mileage out of practicing with my pup b/c unless there's a great distraction, once she figures out what I'm doing she sits at my feet staring up at me waiting for the 'click & treat.' LOL.


_That is cute!_

I think it is rather unusual to find a dog that is not food motivated but somehow Billy managed to be one of them. Even when I offer him a treat before bed or a piece of meat from my plate, he is very reluctant to take it and when he does, he is beyond gentle and barely grabs onto it. He's just not a bold dog.

Taffy, on the other hand, is so food motivated that I had to train her to sit back and wait for her treats. She's easy.

I much rather work with a food motivated pup than one that is not. It is so much harder to find something or someway to let a dog know whether or not they have done something right. He really doesn't care about the treats and will get up and walk away. I am left standing there looking after him and wondering 'what do i do now?'

That's when I started to realize that his sensitivity to me was the only way that I was able to communicate with him. He gets upset if he is scolded and sucks it right up when he is praised and hugged. It was a relief to find something that helped me work with him for his training. I can't help but wonder if it is because he is from service lines that he is so laid back, gentle, and sensitive. I sure do love him!


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## spoofan (Dec 11, 2008)

As a child I used to get a smack first thing in the morning.
My father used to call it an 'advanced smack' because eventually during the day I would earn it...and he was usually right.
There is a difference between physical abuse and a mild licking across your butt to jolt you back to reality.
Kids or dogs.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

mandi said:


> Actually I raised 5 sons and I used a flyswatter and even a belt on occasion (when they were older). When I read the message about spanking her dog, I noted a few words such as 'stole the money' (does a dog know what stealing is?), 'talked with her later'-how does the dog know what the heck they are talking to her about later? And 'got a spank from me and hubby'-the dog didn't need 2 people to hit on her-I'm sorry but I used to see my ex hit our dogs and it made me furious-then later he started hitting me!


I do agree that two people swatting, hitting or correcting is not good. When one corrects a dog, it should only be by one person (during that situation). There's no if's ands or buts about that. 

I dont think that A spank is abuse though. I think from what you said about giving your sons the belt on occassion, you must agree that a spank is not abuse. lol I have 2 boys myself, and boy is a spanking needed at times (for the older son, the other is only almost 2) 

Your concern sounds to be from hearing her say both hubby and MM did the spanking. I honestly must of read over it or didnt realize she really had herself and husband spanking the dog. I personally agree that both people spanking the dog is uncalled for too. Having a chat later with the dog is just a silly thing some of us owners do. I have little chats with Eli and I know he doesnt really understand what Im saying but its just that silly mommy in me thing. 

With my experience with Poodles, discipline doesnt need to be much. They understand very well when your upset with them and are super sensitive to discipline.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

I spank my dogs and all of my dogs have been well mannered lol I even spank my cats …..

This subject is very controversial and this is why when people ask for training advice I never offer it often. When I do offer advise, I usually post different methods like clicker or something else because I do not want people getting mad if I told them to just spank their dog.

Dogs discipline each other by biting and growling so how is one spank going to hurt them compared to a bite ?Caesar Milan uses his fingers to bite or his foot. He has rehabilitated 1000’s of dogs

Enzo has yet to chew on any of my shoes or belongings. He has not jumped on my counters, begged for food or even try to dominate me in any way. He did eat cat poop and he stopped …… he did get into the trash 3 times but he stopped. He used to eat my cats cat food but he stopped. Once you let your dog know what is yours it is rare that they will try something again after a few corrections( especially a poodle)


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

When I was little we had a German Shepherd named Kirby and I remember a talk I had with my dad on the drive to getting her. He told me never to hit her because she would never forget it.

Ever since then i've never been able to physically hit a dog. I think the only time I would ever smack a dog is for unprovoked aggression which thankfully i've never had to deal with except for in the grooming salon and even then I NEVER hit someone elses dog, but I will put the dog up and refuse to finish the groom.

I usually make loud noises or something to distract them, they seem to dislike it well enough for instance if I catch Vega counter-surfing I'll take a rolled up newspaper or a book and slam it on the counter and scare the crap out of him but I won't strike him.

I don't consider it animal cruelty, i just consider it to be pointless when I get the same result without physically hitting my dog.

Your dog could bite you at any moment, but they don't. It just doesn't seem fair to me I guess.


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## mandi (May 13, 2009)

I know the poodles learn fast...I tease my husband about the fact that our german shepherd doesn't sit right away for him (at the age of two and MUCH trng!) and my younger minipoos sit immediately...the 11 month old will even down and stay until I release him...makes me look like a fabulous trainer...which I am not!!


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Aidan;28257
I don't consider it animal cruelty said:


> I have to agree with you, I don't think it's neccessarily cruel, but there seem to be better ways. I just think a well trained dog will usually listen to a voice command.


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