# How much did you pay for your Poodle?



## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

here is the breakdown:

Jamie: almost no testing on parents, full AKC rights= $1500
Brian: all testing, full AKC rights= $2500
Kaden: All testing, Co-owned until finished=$1200
Willow: All testing, co-owned until finished= $1500 and a puppy back
Gotti: bought from a BYB with no testing on dam (dad has all testing) full AKC $600 (is neutered now though)


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## Grasonville (Mar 26, 2010)

frostfirestandards said:


> here is the breakdown:
> 
> Jamie: almost no testing on parents, full AKC rights= $1500
> Brian: all testing, full AKC rights= $2500
> ...


Exactly what I wanted to know - it is interesting to see the price ranges so that someone wanting to purchase with testing doesn't get "sticker shock"


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## Michelle (Nov 16, 2009)

I purchased Atticus on a neuter contract and without his AKC papers for $420. If I were to buy him with papers he would of been $1500. He also has an undecended teste that she told me about so she let me purchase him for cheaper knowing it costed more to get him neutered.


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

oops, forgot to add that mine are all standards


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Vegas - standard
$1400, all testing, limited registration. $100 refunded upon neuter, $50 refunded for every title I put on him.


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

we got jessie from a breeder in SC. she's not akc, she's CCA - which we were told is just as good as no registration). not aware of any testing done on parents (did not know about that before buying), came with health guarantee. we paid $1,000.


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## *tina* (Jan 3, 2010)

I have a mini, he was $1200. All testing, both parents CH., with a co-ownership. He has an undescended testicle, so if that hadn't been a factor he would have been $1600. I get the majority of my grooming free or discounted at their shop. I also like that I can call them for advice just about any day, any time and they will promptly return my phone call. They consider us a part of their extended family now. I would never get a dog at a pet store, but that's been ingrained in me since childhood.


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## Mister (Sep 10, 2008)

Mister Man is a cream Spoo and he was free! Well there really is no such thing as free lol. I got him at 8 months and his food needed to be switched right away (was on science diet, ewww) and he wasnt neutered either. I do all my own grooming so that saves me money but all the toys, treats,, kennel, etc....he isnt a free dog anymore lol.

The person i got him from got Mister (aka Sammy) from a byb breeder basicly. It was a mother and daughter who had the mom and dad Spoos and decided it would be fun to breed them so as far as i know he is not registered and the parents had no health testing...not even sure what breeder the parents came from. He is well put together but a small male spoo at only 48 pounds. His tail is alos docked WAY too short.


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

lol, Paris was free.... haha!! No idea about testing though, her parents & grandparents are all champions as are half her great grandparents and the majority of the rest of her ancestors...

BUT I'd be expecting to pay around $1000 for her if I'd have bought her as a pup, and like I said I have no idea about the testing of the parents, they might be done but I simply haven't asked...


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## Spencer (Oct 7, 2009)

My poodle, like Mister and Paris, was "free". (Oh, you know... but I had to pay for his vet visit... and to get all his nasty matted hair chopped off, a crate, etc. etc. Thankfully he was already neutered!)

However, I would love to have been able to know who my poodle's parents are as well as his genetics. (Currently, he is in great health though, so let's hope he stays that way!) I've looked locally - which is really in the surrounding states, and for a poodle about his size from a breeder that tests their dogs, he would be around $1300.


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## Grasonville (Mar 26, 2010)

Would a "Toy" Poodle be more or less expensive than the Miniatures and Standards? (All other things being equal)


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## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

Grasonville said:


> Would a "Toy" Poodle be more or less expensive than the Miniatures and Standards? (All other things being equal)


Here the Toys seem to be $1200-1800 range, and Standards $1500-2000.


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## Cdnjennga (Jul 30, 2009)

The miniature poodle breeders I spoke to in Ontario were charging between $1000 and $1400 for their puppies from health tested parents.


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## Birdie (Jun 28, 2009)

I paid $250 for Desmond with CKC papers (lol not much, but hey). His parents are both registered (though I don't know his pedigree past his parents, I'd love to find out), and his dad is listed on the OFA website, but I don't know his results. $150-250 is the adoption fees around here, so he was as much money as a shelter dog, only I knew the environment he came from, knew his parents, and how he was raised the first 11 weeks of his life, and that he was a pure poodle, which was really nice to know. I'm not saying he came from a good breeder, because he didn't, but I am very happy we got him. He was a catch.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I know most of the standards in 'Ontario are about $1,200 to $2,400 and the higher price does nor necessarily reflect champion parents, health testing on the parents, nada!! The kennel where I got one of my males has no health testing on one side, and her companion dogs start at $2,200.


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## onlypoodles4me (May 18, 2009)

1500.00
Full testing on both parents
Father is an int. ch
neuter contract
health guarentee


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## BFF (Jun 10, 2009)

We got Zulee as a toy, then she grew up!

She has a champion father. The mother doesn't have any titles. They were both tested for PRA. I was told by the breeder, references, and confirmed through outside research that her puppies were structurally sound in hips, patellas, and no addison's or vWd. 

I also noticed that the breeder had mentored other breeders who are active in the show ring which just gave me a warm fuzzy that she was truly interested in bettering the breed.

We paid $1,000 with a limited AKC registration.


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## onlypoodles4me (May 18, 2009)

Oh yeah, one of my old girls we were actually paid to take! 400.00 to take her and give her a good home. Her owner died of brain cancer and she was comfortable with us, and had boarded with us in the past. She came from show lines on one side (i got a brief glimpse of her papers 10 years ago) She did however bloat twice and was tacked at about 2.5 years of age (long before we got her) and she's got really bad ears that require constant maintainance above and beyond most poodles.


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## Poodlelvr (Mar 13, 2010)

Toys are not usually cheaper than standards, because the litters are usually small--only two or three pups. I paid $1200 for Beau in 2005 for limited registration from a breeder who does all testing. I got Belle in 2008 from the same breeder for $1500. I have always maintained that the purchase price of a puppy will be the least of your expenses over the dog's lifetime--think veterinary care, grooming, food, boarding, etc. Some of those costs will be less for a smaller poodle. That said, get the poodle that warms your heart from a good breeder.


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## myfunnyvalentine (Mar 9, 2010)

$700 BYB, AKC no health testing


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## Grasonville (Mar 26, 2010)

Poodlelvr said:


> I have always maintained that the purchase price of a puppy will be the least of your expenses over the dog's lifetime.


No doubt  - It is so informative for potential puppy buyers to see ahead of time what to expect for the INITIAL expense - thank you all so much for sharing and explaining


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Vegas - standard
> $1400, all testing, limited registration. $100 refunded upon neuter, $50 refunded for every title I put on him.


Very nice.  Are creams in any of her lines?


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## desertreef (Nov 14, 2009)

Olie said:


> Very nice.  Are creams in any of her lines?


 
I can answer that... yes. Even Vegas has cream siblings.

I'll add a new thread of the breeding I just did, which is with my cream female, Grace.

*Also, all my puppies leave with $100 worth of food, treats and chews as I am picky with what I want them to eat. And if the buyer would like their remaining vaccines (parvo/distemper combo only) they take that too. *

Karen


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

desertreef said:


> I can answer that... yes. Even Vegas has cream siblings.
> 
> I'll add a new thread of the breeding I just did, which is with my cream female, Grace.
> 
> ...


I cannot wait to see...I must go check your site out again.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

desertreef said:


> *Also, all my puppies leave with $100 worth of food, treats and chews as I am picky with what I want them to eat. And if the buyer would like their remaining vaccines (parvo/distemper combo only) they take that too. *
> 
> Karen


This puppy package is *amazing*! You also include a blanket and toys that smell like home! (Even though Vegas puked on 2/3 of those on the way home..)


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Standard poodle price also depends of the geographical location of the breeder.

Puppy from *Ch parents and fully tested , top lines* is about 1,500 $ on the East coast and the South but is 2,000 - 2,800 $$$ Bay Area and So Cal. 

1,500 $ Oregon and UT 

1,800 $ - 2,000 $ FL

Canada 1,500 - 2,000 $ - one of the best price-performances places IMO 

All of those prices are for limited registration.


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## Poodlicious (Mar 11, 2010)

We are in SC and just bought a black standard male puppy. He was $1500. Sire=champion, Dam=not, all health testing done.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

wishpoo said:


> Standard poodle price also depends of the geographical location of the breeder.
> 
> Puppy from *Ch parents and fully tested , top lines* is about 1,500 $ on the East coast and the South but is 2,000 - 2,800 $$$ Bay Area and So Cal.
> 
> ...


So glad you posted this because this threads snapshot looks really on the lower end and it really is pretty broad from MO also.


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## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

Jasper (Standard): $1800, full health testing for sire and dam, both parents CH as are most in his family tree. Initially we had limited registration, but now we have full registration, co-ownership until neutered, no breeding.

Nat (Toy), I don't remember as it was 15 years ago LOL. Somewhere around $350, no testing, CH parents. Full registration.


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

Romeo came to me at 12 weeks, from a young couple that was getting a divorce. They got him from a BYB at 8 weeks who would not take him back.  He cost me $100.00.

Brandy came from the east bay where my hubby was managing a project. No idea what he donated for her, as he never shared.


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## partial2poodles (Feb 11, 2010)

Jetta 1,000 parents CH tested
Ben $800 parents Ch tested
Cooper parti free, parents untested, neutered
Keisha $300 full registration
I just sold an unplanned litter from Ben and Jetta for $300...great dogs cheap


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## Paris-London (Mar 2, 2010)

Paris 450$ Full AKC reg. No champions, no testing
INCREDIBLE DOG best purchase I've ever made even though she was from a "BYB".
Although she was raised in the home and well cared for and brought up. Well worth the money.

London 700$ Full AKC reg. Grandparents and up almost all champions. Parents not championed, parents not health tested (I think), has testing in bloodline but not the most recent.


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## calidani (Nov 22, 2009)

Ivy (Spoo) was $200. I got her at 5 months old from what I called a "glorified puppy mill". They bred labradoodles and bred alot of them. Ivy was unsocialized, possibly abused, underweight, terrified of life, and had been fed canned food her whole life.

Dad was full tested; mom wasn't. Neither were titled, but every other dog in her pedigree is CH titled.

I'm in CA and was expecting to pay $2000+ for a show quality pup, but instead I got the $200 love of my life (well, one of my 3 loves ).


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Hehe.. I got Saffy for free!!
They even paid for her to be groomed the day we got her.. (well so they should have in the condition she was!!!)

But, if I had paid for her, it would've been $1000 and I have never actually asked the breeder about testing, but on their website that needs updating!!! they have mentioned it.. and I'm pretty sure they mentioned it to me at a show.. but I am not sure.. But I am pretty sure they do some testing, but not sure if all.. I might ask her this weekend at the show!

Well in NZ, you are usually paying $1000-$1200 for registered spoo... maybe themselves not registered.. but from a NZKC breeder.

I do not know how NZ breeders are with Health Testing... some seem a bit old school.. but I do not really know


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Here in Canada, if you are a member of the CKC you are not allowed to sell unregistered dogs. If you do and are caught you can be severely reprimanded. They can and do revoke memberships, fine members quite a bit of money (like $350 per unregistered pup) and publish your name and the action against you in "Dogs in Canada magazine in the members section!!


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

Rogan was $1200, health tested parents, CKC (Canadian Kennel Club) registered.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

$300 for my spoo. akc full registration no testing, first litter from a woman who had a female and male she decided to breed.

$450 for my limited akc registered female cairn 5 yrs ago.

$300 for my male cairn from a rescue group 3 years ago.

my lab x free from my son (she's a love).

when i was looking at dogs recently i had several really nice breeders of other dogs (german shepherds) offering pups for a significantly discounted price (less than what i was paying in the 90s for gsd w/ similar pedigree.) this one breeder was talking to me and saying the economy has them breeding less (which is good) and the ones they are sellnig they can't get a good price. *sigh*


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

Matrix was $200 adopted from Dog Guides of Canada, no CH., supposed health testing but then how did he end up with HD and epilepsy???? 

Mitch was free (although not really after his vet visits). Health test parents, CH on sire.


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## shalynn (Mar 18, 2010)

I personally did not pay anything for my male, my mom bought him and his brother from a lady who wanted to get out of breeding so she got both males for $300, AKC and not limited. My female i just got i paid $250 for her also AKC and not limited, neither breeders do health testing that i know of and both of them just wanted to get out of breeding. im hoping on breeding them at least once cause of their personalities and all the colors in their background, but im not sure on that yet.


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## Grasonville (Mar 26, 2010)

shalynn said:


> *neither breeders do health testing *that i know of and both of them just wanted to get out of breeding. *im hoping on breeding them at least once cause of their personalities and all the colors in their background,* but im not sure on that yet.


But you would do health testing first, right?


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

shalynn said:


> I personally did not pay anything for my male, my mom bought him and his brother from a lady who wanted to get out of breeding so she got both males for $300, AKC and not limited. My female i just got i paid $250 for her also AKC and not limited, neither breeders do health testing that i know of and both of them just wanted to get out of breeding. im hoping on breeding them at least once cause of their personalities and all the colors in their background, but im not sure on that yet.


Good deals. Please go through some breeding threads, you will be amazed at what you learn!  I would NOT breed them, thats just me. All the colors - is not a good thing and causes mismarks, - white chests, chin, paws and poor liver pigment and so on. Olie has a mismark on his chest and a pink nose, and mouth. He has the BEST temperment BUT not ideal for breeding at all. We love him no differently and like yours complete sweeties

Also breeding a dog with no health history can be very tricky and sad


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

shalynn said:


> I personally did not pay anything for my male, my mom bought him and his brother from a lady who wanted to get out of breeding so she got both males for $300, AKC and not limited. My female i just got i paid $250 for her also AKC and not limited, neither breeders do health testing that i know of and both of them just wanted to get out of breeding. im hoping on breeding them at least once cause of their personalities and all the colors in their background, but im not sure on that yet.



Your dogs are sweet, but they're not breeding material. I know that is harsh and rude, but there are too many breeders out there that are breeding dogs that do not need to be bred, that do not put money into extensive health testing, and do not breed to better the breed. If you seriously want to get into breeding, start with a good show or work prospect. Find a mentor, help them with a few litters, get some titles on your prospect, do all health testing and then start searching for a dam or sire that compliments your dog. 

I'm sorry if I offended you.


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## Natalie (Sep 11, 2009)

I got my toy for 950.00 with limited reg.
My Spoo, however, is a nicer quality, nicer temperment, nicer coat (if it would ever finish changing) and I got her for 300.00. Her litter was a happy accident.  (HI P2P!!!)


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## myfunnyvalentine (Mar 9, 2010)

Olie said:


> Olie has a mismark on his chest and a pink nose, and mouth. He has the BEST temperment BUT not ideal for breeding at all. We love him no differently and like yours complete sweeties


Are you saying that only show quality poodles should be bred?


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

myfunnyvalentine said:


> Are you saying that only show quality poodles should be bred?


Not at all - health tested and too standard, if you plan to sell them. Bit of a difference there.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

myfunnyvalentine said:


> Are you saying that only show quality poodles should be bred?


That's not what she's trying to say at all. She's saying that dogs should be health tested for genetic diseases that can cripple a dogs life (hip dysplasia, Addisons, catarax, vWD, ect), should be sound on temperament, have families lined up to take puppies before the breeding even takes place, ect.

There's more to dog breeding than just having show quality dogs or breeding dogs because they have good personalities in the home.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

myfunnyvalentine said:


> Are you saying that only show quality poodles should be bred?



Yes. A show quality Poodle is a poodle that conforms very well to the written standard. This should be the breeding goal of every Poodle breeder. 

As far as Shalynn goes..... You are going to breed that poor, unsocialized bitch that you bought out of the pen? Exactly what about her temperament, structure, movement and pedigree makes you think she is a breeding prospect?

Please do this girl a huge favor and spay her. Let her live out her life as a well loved pet.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

myfunnyvalentine said:


> Are you saying that only show quality poodles should be bred?


I think breeding should only be undertaken by people who have educated themselves to the extreme about their chosen breed. Breeding should only be done by a responsible, mature person who understands the risks and expense associated with breeding the RIGHT WAY. These educated, responsible people will then, of course, choose the best candidates to breed (and not just because the dogs are "handy" or "cheap") These educated, responsible people will complete the health testing on their chosen dogs and if the test come back with poor results, these same people will then have their dogs spayed/neutered and not continue to proliferate the breed with health problems. They will also ensure that the stock they have chosen to breed are conformationally to the standard of their breed and if they have a dog that is "lacking" a little something physically, they will make sure that the partner they choose for that dog can enhance or correct what may be missing... so to answer your question about only "show quality" poodles being bred, maybe the answer is that breeders should strive to only PRODUCE show quality poodles - that way, the health and quality of our beautiful breed will only benefit! And, again, just because I may own a "show quality" dog does NOT mean it NEEDS to be bred!!!

I used to manage a humane society and there were many, many times when potential adopters would come in and question our spay/neuter policy (especially on any of the purebred dogs at our shelter) "It's a PUREBRED!!! Surely we should be able to breed it just once if we adopt it from you!! WHY would you want to spay/neuter a PUREBRED dog???" :wacko: :fish: It is people with this mindset that have continued to overburden our planet with too many mediocre (or worse) puppies "just because" they can... 

IMO...


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## puppylove (Aug 9, 2009)

I paid $400 for Jackson. He was a 9 month old rescue. That included his neuter, shots, microchip, and tags. When my husband brought home Hoot (my Aussie) from a byb (I don't know what he paid), I spent about that same amount to get all of that done to him. I love them both very much and I think they are beautiful. I would love someday to have a well-bred spoo.


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

cbrand said:


> Yes. A show quality Poodle is a poodle that conforms very well to the written standard. This should be the breeding goal of every Poodle breeder.
> 
> As far as Shalynn goes..... You are going to breed that poor, unsocialized bitch that you bought out of the pen? Exactly what about her temperament, structure, movement and pedigree makes you think she is a breeding prospect?
> 
> Please do this girl a huge favor and spay her. Let her live out her life as a well loved pet.


Agreed!



plumcrazy said:


> I think breeding should only be undertaken by people who have educated themselves to the extreme about their chosen breed. Breeding should only be done by a responsible, mature person who understands the risks and expense associated with breeding the RIGHT WAY. These educated, responsible people will then, of course, choose the best candidates to breed (and not just because the dogs are "handy" or "cheap") These educated, responsible people will complete the health testing on their chosen dogs and if the test come back with poor results, these same people will then have their dogs spayed/neutered and not continue to proliferate the breed with health problems. They will also ensure that the stock they have chosen to breed are conformationally to the standard of their breed and if they have a dog that is "lacking" a little something physically, they will make sure that the partner they choose for that dog can enhance or correct what may be missing... so to answer your question about only "show quality" poodles being bred, maybe the answer is that breeders should strive to only PRODUCE show quality poodles - that way, the health and quality of our beautiful breed will only benefit! And, again, just because I may own a "show quality" dog does NOT mean it NEEDS to be bred!!!
> 
> I used to manage a humane society and there were many, many times when potential adopters would come in and question our spay/neuter policy (especially on any of the purebred dogs at our shelter) "It's a PUREBRED!!! Surely we should be able to breed it just once if we adopt it from you!! WHY would you want to spay/neuter a PUREBRED dog???" :wacko: :fish: It is people with this mindset that have continued to overburden our planet with too many mediocre (or worse) puppies "just because" they can...
> 
> IMO...


Agreed!


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

I paid $1,500 for my boy, sire and dam are CH (and nearly every relative five generations back), health tested, lifetime health guarantee (not that I'd ever give him up!). He's on limited AKC registration (I'll get his papers when he's neutered). 

The comment above that just because you have a show-quality dog doesn't mean you should breed it is so true. There are sooooooo many poodles in the world, the only ones who should be deliberately bred are the absolute best of the best: meet the breed standard to a T in terms of structure, temperament, coat, health... or, if they are lacking in one quality, but have other great qualities, they should be bred to a dog that will hopefully balance out that missing quality. So much thought and time and effort goes into planning a breeding. You don't just throw two random dogs together without knowing their backgrounds, health, etc.

To the above poster, please don't breed your two standard poodles together. They don't fit the poodle breed standard. I am not saying don't ever breed--educate yourself, get a mentor, research the breed more, and then think about it. Breeding--the right way--is a difficult and costly endeavor. It's something I don't think I could ever do right--so I won't ever be a breeder. I have a lot of respect for great breeders. They dedicate their lives to ensuring our wonderful breed lives on the way it was intended...


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

cbrand said:


> Yes. A show quality Poodle is a poodle that conforms very well to the written standard. This should be the breeding goal of every Poodle breeder.
> 
> As far as Shalynn goes..... You are going to breed that poor, unsocialized bitch that you bought out of the pen? Exactly what about her temperament, structure, movement and pedigree makes you think she is a breeding prospect?
> 
> Please do this girl a huge favor and spay her. Let her live out her life as a well loved pet.


Agreed! Show quality but not necessarily a champion and not necessarily shown. But anyone getting into this needs a mentor badly. I was fortunate to have grown up in a Spoo breeding home. My Mom was my mentor. People tend to be a little blind when it comes to their own dogs, and you need someone who will tell you honestly what the good and bad qualities of your dogs are. Just because a dog CAN be bred does not mean they SHOULD be bred. 

The parents should have all of their health testing done, and depending where you go can run you $600 to $1,200 each dog for hips, eyes, S/A. thyroid panel, vWd and NEWS. You should not breed a dog whose background is littered with health problems.

You should not breed a Poo with multi colours in its background.

You need to know exactly what you are doing when whelping the litter or you could lose your girl and/or the puppies. You have equipmment you would need...ex pens, baby scales, heat lamp, whelping pen, blankets, toys, milk replacer, bottles... You have to be dedictaed to weighing the pups a few times daily to ensure nobody is losing weight and if they are, be prepared to supplement feed every two hours round the clock. You will have the expense of dew claw removal and tail docking, shots and vet physicals, de-worming, advertising the litter, feeding them once the require solid food, and it must be good quality puppy food. You have to be prepared that maybe not all of the puppies would sell quickly, so now may be living with the parents and several pups until they are goodness knows what age. The first litter of pups I had not all gone until the last one sold was six months old. Believe me, they eat a LOT of food at that age, as well as couches, kitchen cupboards, clothes, carpeting....

Breeding is not something to be taken lightly. There are tons of things that should be considered, tons of expenses, tons of risks, and none of this should be attempted with a dog who has not been fully health tested, or without a mentor.


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## Grasonville (Mar 26, 2010)

Fluffyspoos said:


> That's not what she's trying to say at all. She's saying that dogs should be health tested for genetic diseases that can cripple a dogs life (hip dysplasia, Addisons, catarax, vWD, ect), should be sound on temperament, have families lined up to take puppies before the breeding even takes place, ect.
> 
> There's more to dog breeding than just having show quality dogs or breeding dogs because they have good personalities in the home.


This is from another board - about a different breed - but I think it applies to any breed:

_Does this dog have something to offer the breed? Structure? Conformation? Working temperament? Health? Or is this just a person's sentiment, wanting a "puppy out of my fabulous dog Fluffy?" Remember, that puppies out of Fluffy can sometimes be NOTHING like Fluffy, and breeding her will not promise you "another one." This point is proven time and again in the "great names" of the breed, who were in themselves, to die for.......yet they haven't produced one strong off-spring........one who matches, or surpasses themselves.

Proven conformation type and structure. This is done via showing.

Proven temperament. This is done via training and trialing, or actively working (therapy, SAR, etc).

Proven health. Hips, elbows (OFA ), Cardiac clearance via a board certified cardiologist (Cardiologists by State ) and registered with OFA, Eyes checked and cleared by a board certified opthamologist (CERF ).

All of this will take you time (years) and money. When this is complete, a suitable mate needs to be picked, and again, all the above criteria considered and met. Suitable homes need to be screened for, a contract in place, and good communication between breeder and buyer.

To forgo health and temperament is to invite disaster. As a breeder, you CAN be held responsible (in a lawsuit) for the action of the puppies you produce. Believe that the parents whose child was just mauled will be looking for all the $$ they can find.

What will you tell the buyers when they call you, heartbroken and in tears, that the puppy you sold them just dropped dead at 15 mos old. SAS. A congenital and fatal heart condition, present in this breed.

What will you tell the buyers when they ask what to do........Buddy needs $1500 worth of surgery to fix his hip. The other side will probably have to be done in less than a year. $3000. Either that, or tell their 8 and 10 year old kids that they must now take Buddy to the vet so he can be killed (put to sleep) because he's in too much pain.

What about a puppy who goes blind at age 5 from PRA?

Breeding is NOT about a cute litter of puppies in a box. It's about devotion, heartbreak, spending LOTS of money, losing lots of sleep, having patience with the ignorant, being accountable to 6-10 new lives, and their owners, for the duration of their life. 

THIS is why people are so passionate about the breed, and breeding. Hopefully you can understand why some people, after years and years and years of going through the same parade of novice owners who "just want to have a nice litter," can at times, humanly, run out of patience.

I would ask that you strongly reconsider your desire to have a litter until you have many more years of experience in the breed, and time has been your invaluable instructor. Become part of the solution, learn, share what you've learned, continue to educate people about the breed. In 5 years, think about it again, and then see where your thoughts lie. 
___________________


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

Grasonville said:


> This is from another board - about a different breed - but I think it applies to any breed:
> 
> _Does this dog have something to offer the breed? Structure? Conformation? Working temperament? Health? Or is this just a person's sentiment, wanting a "puppy out of my fabulous dog Fluffy?" Remember, that puppies out of Fluffy can sometimes be NOTHING like Fluffy, and breeding her will not promise you "another one." This point is proven time and again in the "great names" of the breed, who were in themselves, to die for.......yet they haven't produced one strong off-spring........one who matches, or surpasses themselves.
> 
> ...


This is very very good!! Kudos to whoever wrote it and thanks for sharing it!


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

myfunnyvalentine said:


> Are you saying that only show quality poodles should be bred?


I am curious what you think on this subject?


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

We paid $1500 and her parents were tested, though not titled. Limited AKC registration (and we signed a contract to spay) and she's "pet quality" (LOL. Don't know why, didn't ask, I don't have any more time in my life for my poodle to have her own activities, too! )


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted by myfunnyvalentine
> Are you saying that only show quality poodles should be bred?



I just hope that all that was posted was read in detail and taken into serious consideration :rolffleyes:

I can not even believe that breeding of those two poor dogs was ever considered as an option or a "good idea" :smow: 

They CAME from abused background due to being nothing but a "breeding machines" : ((( - the most tragic destiny for any animal and I thought they were "rescued" from that horrible situation :wacko:. 

They do not look even close to what good quality standard poodle should look like (lets not even compare with show dogs), they carry who knows what genetic diseases in their background : ((( , and now they will be bred ???
FOR COLORS ???????:doh:

I am sorry, but is I just do not understand ...


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

wishpoo said:


> I just hope that all that was posted was read in detail and taken into serious consideration :rolffleyes:
> 
> I can not even believe that breeding of those two poor dogs was ever considered as an option or a "good idea" :smow:
> 
> ...


Wishpoo, I think some people honestly don't know any better and I am hopeful that the previous poster will read these posts and be open to education... This is a great place to share and learn. I know I have learned much about poodles from the people here. I love the Poodle Forum!


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

You are right : ( ... I hope I did not sound too harsh. I was really stunned :wacko: since girl-spoo came in horrible condition to a new home and imagining her being bred made me shiver : ((( She will need serious attention for couple of years just to became trusting and well socialized dog and finally experience what a "real life" is - to play, to run, to be petted, to be groomed , to be loved , well fed ... To impregnate her just coming out of that prison would be just so unbelievably tragic : ((( ... EVEN if she was a top quality show dog with all tests done ... not to mention all of the rest involved *sigh...


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## shalynn (Mar 18, 2010)

i can understand where alot of you come from on the breeding point, but my question is how do you know either of my babies are not breeding quality? I have not said anything about their pedigree, so what is it? just that they came from a byb? if so thats not fare or right of you. (imo) not all byb are bad, my mom and i are i guess byb of german shepherds and have been for as long as i can remember, but we have only one to two femals we would breed and not very often. We like to breed our dogs cause they have great lines great temperments and personalitites, AND we do it to be able to provide a good quality dog to low income family's such as myself. We believe that no matter what someones income is they should have the oppertunity to own an expensive dog without taking out another mortage. If or when i choose to breed my two spoos, it will only be once and YES they would have testing done before hand.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

shalynn said:


> We believe that no matter what someones income is they should have the oppertunity to own an expensive dog without taking out another mortage. If or when i choose to breed my two spoos, it will only be once and YES they would have testing done before hand.


Ok - if someone cannot afford to pay for a Quality bred poodle at $1000.00 or $1500.00 how on earth do they pay the Vet, Neuter and spay, the potential injuries, bloat that run in several thousand dollars and up? 

Honestly I can see why you would feel your pup was worthy of breeding because you love them and the temporment- but thats not a reason. Experienced people can see when a dog is not breeding quality.

So you feel you are a back yard breeder? Do you know what that is?


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

shalynn said:


> i can understand where alot of you come from on the breeding point, but my question is how do you know either of my babies are not breeding quality? I have not said anything about their pedigree, so what is it?



It's quite obvious from your photos that your spoos don't have the proper structure of a standard poodle. I am not a poodle expert or breeder, but it's clear to me. 

Have you ever looked at the illustrated poodle breed standard on the Poodle Club of America website? It is a wonderful guide to the breed: Illustrated Breed Standard 

This alone would be reason not to breed them, but there are many other reasons besides this. You can health test your spoos, but only for the tests that are available. (FYI, testing for your two spoos will not be cheap.) Some of the known diseases in poodles can't be tested for. You have to base it on experience with the dogs' relatives. Even if your spoos come back clear, you don't know the history of the lines of dogs behind your two spoos... maybe they have relatives with heritable diseases. Standard poodles can have some serious health problems if not carefully, thoughtfully bred and tested before breeding. It's risky to say the least to breed dogs that came from less-than-stellar conditions.

Be aware, I think other members will have strong feelings about your comment of being a backyard breeder with your GSDs. As a purebred dog aficionado, I don't agree with throwing any two dogs together simply for the purpose of creating "affordable" purebreds. There are many, many affordable purebred dogs in rescues and shelters across the country. Breeding dogs that don't fit the breed standard and have unknown health histories can create puppies that have serious health issues, and this can be very costly to the new owner.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Olie said:


> Honestly I can see why you would feel your pup was worthy of breeding *because you love them *and the temporment- but thats not a reason. Experienced people can see when a dog is not breeding quality.


Hey Olie!!! *I* love *MY* poodle, too!!!! VERY, VERY, VERY much!!!! Do you want to know HOW much I love my poodle???? I love her SOOOOOOOO much that I have an appointment to have her spayed on April 7th!! (only one week and one day to go!!)  

She will be soooo much happier and healthier without having to worry about heats/hormones/mating/carrying/whelping/nursing/weaning... GASP!!! She can focus on being a pampered pet poodle and having the best life EVER!!

I love my bitch...  :lol:


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

I am selling my SP pups for 1400 
Parents have been shown and health test done.
11 dogs out of 14 are champions in the 3 generation pedigree.

The pups come with life and health insurance for the first year.
We also do temperament tests on them.
They get there first shot are micro chipped dewormed and so on.

They have a pedigree from Icelandic Kennel Club they are a member of FCI


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

> shalynn said:
> 
> 
> > i can understand where alot of you come from on the breeding point, but my question is how do you know either of my babies are not breeding quality?
> ...


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

plumcrazy said:


> She will be soooo much happier and healthier without having to worry about heats/hormones/mating/carrying/whelping/nursing/weaning... GASP!!! She can focus on being a pampered pet poodle and having the best life EVER!!
> 
> I love my bitch...  :lol:


I am with you! Mine were ALL done. 

Someone mentioned earlier on a thread about being suprised to see a standard poodle for adoption, sad thing is there are A LOT of them in shelters that BACK YARD BREEDERS used up and threw them there:doh: 
People in a lower income should look up their states poodles rescues so they can adopt at an affordable price so they can afford to take care of their future health needs.

Let me EDIT - Not just low income people should adopt, that was not my point, the point was, adoption is a more afordable route to go.


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## *tina* (Jan 3, 2010)

shalynn said:


> i can understand where alot of you come from on the breeding point, but my question is how do you know either of my babies are not breeding quality? I have not said anything about their pedigree, so what is it? just that they came from a byb? if so thats not fare or right of you. (imo) not all byb are bad, my mom and i are i guess byb of german shepherds and have been for as long as i can remember, but we have only one to two femals we would breed and not very often. We like to breed our dogs cause they have great lines great temperments and personalitites, AND we do it to be able to provide a good quality dog to low income family's such as myself. We believe that no matter what someones income is they should have the oppertunity to own an expensive dog without taking out another mortage. If or when i choose to breed my two spoos, it will only be once and YES they would have testing done before hand.




Your cream poodle has liver points, which is against the breed standard. Your black one has mis-marks (which can happen even with a really great breeding, I understand), not to mention being rescued. My shepherd/shar-pei mix is the greatest, sweetest, cutest dog, but not once in her life did I ever think of breeding her, or wishing I had bred her. I spent a "fortune" for my dog, knowing that he is conformationally sound, comes from healthy parents and has had all health testing done. My breeder has been breeding quality poodles for 30+ years. Every breeder does need to start somewhere, but they need to start with AWESOME dogs to begin with.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

As a breeder, I spend days and days and days looking into pedigrees of dogs I may breed my girls to. I go onto Poodle Health registry and carefully research every single male I might consider as a mate to my ladies. If I see a few red flags, that one is out and we check the next one. There are so many things to consider when choosing a pair to breed. Fantastic temperaments, health testing clear on both of them, health testing in the background of both of them that is acceptable, the looks, conformation and colour of the dogs... just an unbelievable amount of time and effort goes into choosing the right partner and for so many reasons. Not just health testing, not just backgrounds, not just structure, not just colour, not just temperament, but all of the above!!! And with all of this so carefully planned and researched, things can still happen. But I will do my level best to make sure everything has been done to the very best of my ability to not have anything happen! If all I cared about was producing Spoos at an affordable price for people, I would breed my red matriarch to the old silver boy I have here and have at it. But that is not what breeding dogs should be about. Your goal in breeding should be to pick two incredible dogs to breed together and produce puppies with the most conformationally correct structure and colour, who have the soundest temperaments imaginable, and are as healthy as possible from the healthiest backgrounds possible. Period!


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

shalynn said:


> i can understand where alot of you come from on the breeding point, but my question is how do you know either of my babies are not breeding quality? I have not said anything about their pedigree, so what is it? just that they came from a byb? if so thats not fare or right of you. (imo) not all byb are bad, my mom and i are i guess byb of german shepherds and have been for as long as i can remember, but we have only one to two femals we would breed and not very often. We like to breed our dogs cause they have great lines great temperments and personalitites, AND we do it to be able to provide a good quality dog to low income family's such as myself. We believe that no matter what someones income is they should have the oppertunity to own an expensive dog without taking out another mortage. If or when i choose to breed my two spoos, it will only be once and YES they would have testing done before hand.


I honestly don't know what to say....
What health testing have you done on your shepherds?
Do you know where the puppies you've produced are?
Did you sell them on spay/neuter contracts?
Do you ensure pups will be returned to you/your mother if the owner can no longer care for the dog?

I realize that you think you are doing a good thing by providing low income families with "expensive" dogs, but let me point out some flaws in your thinking

- if you are not health testing your dogs beforehand, you are potentially selling dogs that will cost their owners HUNDREDS possibly THOUSANDS of dollars in the long run, not to mention heartache. 

- By selling dogs to people with low incomes, you are potentially contributing to dogs being put in shelters or abandoned because they simply cannot afford to have pets. 

- you are potentially putting dogs in situations where they will not receive medical care they need because their owners cannot afford it. 

See where I'm going with this?? I'm not saying people with low incomes should not own dogs, but really, they should be saving the money they spend on the dog to help them out of poverty, or to have savings in case of an emergency. 

About your poodles, you can tell just by looking at them that they are not show quality. The new girl had bad pigment, and Manny has bad eyes and head structure. Having good lines really means nothing because you can breed two show quality championed dogs and get ZERO show quality pups out of the litter. 

Just don't do it...please!


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

This was never meant to go south. I think we are all saying the same things just wording it differently lol......Hopefully time and thought will change the mind.


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

It will not :smow: and I kind of need to "take a walk" now ... just so sad ...


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Sooo sorry wishpoo!! :hug: We do the best we can to educate people on this wonderous breed and we can only succeed when the ground is fertile and the ears (and mind) hear and comprehend the message. Unfortunately it is the dogs which will suffer if the owners are too conceited or immature to listen to sound advice. All we can do is the best we can with what we've got and pray that the rest works out the way it is supposed to! I'll give Lucybug an extra hug just for you tonight! :hug:


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Aaaaaweee... thanks dearest Plum :hug::hug::hug:... I will imagine her soft silky hair in "my cyber hug" tonight :flowers:


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

shalynn said:


> AND we do it to be able to provide a good quality dog to low income family's such as myself.


There's plenty of good, quality dogs in shelters being killed by the millions every year in shelters because BYBs breed their 'breeding' quality dogs for stupid reasons. You're being ignorant about this. (imo)

Now I'm done. xP


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> There's plenty of good, quality dogs in shelters being killed by the millions every year in shelters because BYBs breed their 'breeding' quality dogs for stupid reasons. You're being ignorant about this. (imo)
> 
> Now I'm done. xP


Yep... I've held more than my fair share in my arms as the vet administered the lethal pink solution to their veins. Every time I had to make the decision to euthanize a dog (or cat) at the shelter, every time I held them in my arms and watched my tears fall into their warm coats as the vet killed them; I DAMNED the people who put them there! It was NOT my fault and I resented the fact that I had to clean up the mess that the backyard breeders were creating by pumping out mediocre dogs when there weren't NEARLY enough good homes for all of the dogs already inhabiting the planet... and, yes, many of the dogs we PTS were purebreds (not many poodles, but quite a few other breeds!)

I do not begrudge responsible breeders their right to try improving the breed and do the testing/researching, etc to perpetuate the best quality dogs possible, but when people just put two dogs of the same breed together, willy nilly, and make puppies; it takes me back to my years at the shelter and the many, many animals I whose lives I had to help end because there are too many... :sad: It truly makes me sick...


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I think we all need to take a deep breath and stop now and get back to what this thread was originally about. We all know all too well that there are people who come here who will just not listen to reason no matter what we say, no matter how logical our rationale, no matter how misled they choose to be, and we will not, no matter what we do or say change their way of thinking. Hopefully we have given Shaylynn something to think about, but I doubt we have changed her mind. Most people who think like this are looking for a quick "easy" buck, and if they have the means, will go ahead and do whatever they want regardless of the consequences.

Soooooooo....how much did you pay for your Poodle?????


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Olie - $300. My BF heard about the litter went to see them and Olie comes home  - The people were not knowledgable breeders AT ALL, just a couple that had two spoos and bred them:doh:! We would have paid the same from a rescue, and we LOVE LOVE him.

Suri - $550. Quality breeder, and Suri was about 19 months when we found her. At the time I was drawn in by dessertreefs Silvers.....ahh and when I was told to check out Tintlets web page and read up more, I wanted her and all worked out! The trained Spoo was a great bonus! 

My plans for the future will be to have a 3rd standard from another quality breeder.


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

shalynn said:


> i can understand where alot of you come from on the breeding point, but my question is how do you know either of my babies are not breeding quality?


Well you say that you don't know nothing about health testing about relatives 
and that is a very important part.

I have said no to two bitch owners wanting to use my dog because of epilepsy in siblings the owners of the bitches knew nothing about that.

I would not risk breeding pups with epilepsy or SA, Addison and so on.

You could sell people a puppy for 400$ but they would end up paying more for there sick pup then they would have paid for a pedigree dog with tested ancestors and siblings.

I would not do it.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

shalynn said:


> i can understand where alot of you come from on the breeding point, but my question is how do you know either of my babies are not breeding quality?


I think this is an honest question. So, for what it is worth, I will tell you what faults I think I see:

*Mannie*
Cherry Eye... this eye issue can be fixed, but it is considered to be genetic 
Mismarked (disqualifying fault in AKC)
Flat feet
Eastie/westie in the front
Low tail set
Submissive/excited peeing (I would not breed this temperament forward)

*New Girl* (does she have a name?)
Liver pigment (disqualifying fault AKC)
Very light eye
Roman nose (?)
Ewe necked
Roachy topline
Long in the loin
Totally unsocialized..... how do you know what her true temperament is?


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## shalynn (Mar 18, 2010)

I can not believe some of you are still going on with this, enough bashing my pets and continue the original post!!!


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

We are not bashing your pets - we are trying to educate you about the subject you have no knowledge about and we are also trying to spare your bitch of unnecessary stress and future puppies from having a crippling disease and very sad lives...

: ((((


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

shalynn said:


> I can not believe some of you are still going on with this, enough bashing my pets and continue the original post!!!


Sorry. I really thought you were asking why they are not breeding quality. Like I said.... I thought it was an honest question, so I gave it an honest, straightforward answer.


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Nothing I can add that hasn't been said but I'm just amazed! When you get a dog out of that kind of situation you are supposed to break the cycle not continue it yourself.


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## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

$500 with full AKC registration. I'm fully aware that he isn't show or breeding quality, but that's not why I wanted him. The standards for a live teddy bear are not quite as stringent as for the show ring, and in that regard, he couldn't be more perfect.

I love him so much that I cut off his balls.


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## myfunnyvalentine (Mar 9, 2010)

Olie said:


> I am curious what you think on this subject?


I understand that I don't know the standard points of the poodle breed. But ever since I watched that one video about AKC breed standards of other breeds, breed standards themselves make me werry. A little off the subject, but who is to say that the breed standard of poodles is the best for the poodles, in dealing with bloat for example. But of coarse breeding a dog without having health testing is a grave injustice for everyone involved. On a side note, in my experince in getting a puppy. I've run into alot of snobby breeders. I messaged them and they didn't message me back. Which made me really depressed which is why I got the puppy I did.:smow:


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## Gorky (Jul 14, 2009)

Marian, touche (French accent at end)


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

marian said:


> $500 with full akc registration. I'm fully aware that he isn't show or breeding quality, but that's not why i wanted him. The standards for a live teddy bear are not quite as stringent as for the show ring, and in that regard, he couldn't be more perfect.
> 
> I love him so much that i cut off his balls. :d


i love your funny one liners!


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Marian said:


> I love him so much that I cut off his balls.


That's true love right there!


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## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

Tee hee :fish:


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Marian said:


> I love him so much that I cut off his balls.


I hope the vet helped! :shock: :scared:


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## Reesmom (Feb 4, 2010)

Fin - $400 BYB. No testing at all. I got lucky there.
Allie - Rescue. No cost. Just saved her from the juice. 
Reece - Retired show dog. Only cost was to get her teeth cleaned and spay. She came with proof of all testing, pedigree, and ribbons from show. Also, microchipped and utd on vaccines. And crate trained and potty trained. Best deal I ever got.

No offense meant, but I've been the victim of a byb twice. Both times I paid $500 for the dogs. Different breeders and breeds. I trained both for agility and other sports. My lab died at 3 from an undetectable genetic birth defect in his chest 1 month before our first agility trial. He was my world. It crushed both my husband and I. My border collie was diagnosed with HD at 2 and has had a few seizures, he also has a major temperament issues. He can compete, but we have to be careful. I had a health guarantee on him and when I called her she wanted to replace him. Like I'm gonna give him back after 2 years for her to put him down. Its a no win situation. Still haven't seen any money I was promised. So I have a dog I can only do 1/4 what I bought him for. I have spent thousands on all his problems. He and I are the ones that suffer. She is still breeding dogs, and his parents no less. Even with the documentation in her hand.

Sorry I got on a soap box there. hwell:


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## dt7624 (Apr 2, 2009)

We paid $1500 for Lucy. Limited AKC registration and CH on both sides. All health testing done and 1 year health guarantee.


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## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

plumcrazy said:


> I hope the vet helped! :shock: :scared:


Yeah, I would have fainted for sure.


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## apoodleaday (Feb 22, 2010)

My two cents: (I know probably not needed, but sometimes)
I am not new to dogs, but I am new to standard poodle ownership. My breeder is not new to dogs, breeding, or showing. She has been a reputable and ethical breeder always. She has 30+ years in great danes. She's newer in poodles. (Actually after one litter, she is out of poodles.) She had quality mentors and helpers. She did all of her testing. She researched her stud dog thoroughly. That being said.........
Cost of my show poodle $2500 (I did not have to pay all of this as I have her on a co-ownership)
Cost of her bloat surgery $2300
Cost of blood work and vet consult with a poodle vet to make sure she's recovering nicely $116
Cost of vaccinations $100
Cost of paper work for AKC $39.00
Cost of spay and teeth cleaning $1000
All of these costs were paid in the last 4 months along with food and toys and treats.
Times I got to show my show poodle = 0
I'm not telling this so others will feel bad, I just want to share what can happen even in careful, well planned situations. As many of you know, my poodle's brother also bloated. My breeder paid for that surgery because she felt absolutely terrible. Please, anyone thinking about breeding your standard poodle, unless you have years of knowledge and understanding about this beautiful breed specifically, DON'T. 
I am not sorry for one minute that this beautiful girl graced my life, but I feel sorry for her and all that she's been through.
Please be open to the people here, they will help you, they will teach you, and they will reach out to you. I am a BETTER poodle owner by far because of this forum.


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## flufflvr (Mar 20, 2010)

Liberty was $400. 
I just had to jump in on this conversation, because this topic is near and dear to my heart because of personal experience. I got my sweet girl a month after her first birthday from a family who was moving out of state and couldn't take her with them. They were also the breeders. Liberty is amazing. She was the pick of the litter, as evidenced by the puppy temperament test, which is why they kept her. She is now a therapy dog, and has an ideal temperament. She is so easy to live with, is incredibly smart, and I swear she reads my mind. The dam and sire all had complete testing done. I have the paperwork. I also have her pedigree on both sides. I thought a pedigree and testing of the parents was enough. Boy was I wrong. 
I do not have the testing on all of her predecessors, and neither did the breeders. When Liberty was almost two she got sick. I almost lost her; I can't even find the words to describe the heartache I went through. She was finally diagnosed with Addisons Disease. In the past 4 1/2 years, I've paid at least $7,500 on her meds. That's around $100 a month plus vet bills. Every penny has been worth it, because I love her more than I can even say. Her breeder let me know about a year ago that her dam died of bloat. They were heartbroken. I was heartbroken for them, and now I worry about that too. With Addison's she might not live as long as she would without it because her body can't handle stress, so if she got sick from something else, the Addisons would kick in and compound the problem. Bloat is also hereditary. Scares me to death, and I do everything possible to prevent it, and then try not to think about it...I'll make myself crazy. 
Do I regret getting her? No, she makes it all worth it. But....what have I learned? I've learned a lot. I will get my next standard from a breeder who has done research back through the generations. Neither the genes for Addison's or predisposition for bloat can be tested. The test only picks up on Addison's if the poodle has it at the time of the testing. the only way to know if a dog is predisposed to bloat and Addisons is by knowing the history of the lines of both of the parents. I've already chosen my next breeder. I will pay much more than $400 up front, but hopefully I won't need to spend so much on medical bills and experience the heartbreak (which is the worst part) of chronic health conditions in my next furry family member.


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## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

flufflvr, your story is touching. Thanks for sharing it. I hope Liberty is with you for a long time to come.


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## Grasonville (Mar 26, 2010)

Marian said:


> I love him so much that I cut off his balls.


I need a tshirt that says that


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## apoodleaday (Feb 22, 2010)

Flufflvr, I too would like to thank you for sharing your special story. I hope to do some therapy work with my girl in the future. I would like to hear your stories. I wish you and Liberty many happy years together.
Marian I love your ability to make a point with a quick wit. You've made me smile many times. Best wishes to you and your "teddy bear" boy.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Reesmom said:


> Fin - $400 BYB. No testing at all. I got lucky there.
> Allie - Rescue. No cost. Just saved her from the juice.
> Reece - Retired show dog. Only cost was to get her teeth cleaned and spay. She came with proof of all testing, pedigree, and ribbons from show. Also, microchipped and utd on vaccines. And crate trained and potty trained. Best deal I ever got.
> 
> ...


I am so sorry.... This is exactly why testing and standards are so important. We live and learn.....or most of us do.  Love your avatar.


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## desertreef (Nov 14, 2009)

Many posts here have touched me this morning. Thank you for sharing.

Karen


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## taxtell (Sep 17, 2009)

Flip boy was a $400 rescue, and about 5 months old.
He was neutered and vaccinated (the last vaccines he's getting).


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## Trillium (Sep 1, 2009)

Breeding dogs without properly researching their lines to check for illnesses and not properly health testing a dog may result in a puppy that costs less initially but can cost a fortune in vet bill and heartache over its lifetime.

I got my Sport when he was 4 years old he was free. He was being rehomed as he had a genetic fault (his eyelashes curled in)and couldn't be used for breeding. He probably cost me more over the 4 years we had him then any other dog I've owned. 

When he was 6 he developed neck problems. We took him to a vet who said it was the way he was sleeping and put him on anti inflam. It didn't help. We were really worried about him and not happy with what the vet was saying. So we took him to a doggie chiropractor. She found that his back was out and his jaw was locking. After quite a few chiro. appointments he was better again and no longer in pain though he did have to go back to the chiro from time to time for the rest of his life. This cost us hundreds. When he was 8 yrs old he got IMT we spent a ton more (I've never added it all up nor do I want to know)trying to save him but in the end had to put him down. 

I don't know what if any health testing went into his breeding (though I suspect not nearly enough) I don't even know his registered name. I do know he was a wonderful dog and I still miss him!!! He had an amazing temperament and was a true gentleman of a dog. He could not have had a better temperament or a sweeter nature!!

Breeding a dog because he/she has a wonderful temperament is not enough. Without know about that dog's background the puppies you breed could end up with health problems like Sport's that could cost someone a fortune and lead to heartbreak. 

I cannot believe all that I have already learned since I've become a co-owner of Betty Jo and Jenny with Arreau. The time we have spent looking for a wonderful stud is astronomical. The number of dogs we have written off because of one problem or another is also amazing. They won't even be old enough to have all their health testing done for months yet. Yet we have been working on finding the perfect match for them IF their health testing comes back good. I cannot imagine undertaking all of this without Arreau and we haven't even got to the actual breeding and whelping. There is so much to learn and know. 

Please be careful and don't just breed a dog because you can. There has to be a better reason for it. Also if you are just starting out in poodles you really need a mentor. I've had poodles for a long time and am not nearly knowledgeable enough to breed one responsibly with out the help and advise of someone that has been involved in it a long time (thanks Arreau) 

I loved Sport and I still miss him. I really believe that he died way to soon. I'd not wish all the heart ache on my worst enemy. (Though I'm still glad and thankful that we had Sport as long as we did) When we breed our dogs you better believe that we'll be health testing and checking pedigrees so we can have the best puppies we can. Conformation, temperament and excellent health are all the things we should be striving for when we breed.


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## Savannah (Jan 15, 2010)

I had a fantastic opportunity dropped in my lap-- Flash's breeder had two litters on the ground, had realized she was in over her head, and neutered his parents. Flash was the last of his litter and the oldest puppy still on the premises (12 weeks), so she was willing to sell him to me cheaper. 

Warning here: a responsible breeder ordinarily does NOT discount pups as they get older. I love the lady who sold him to me, but I'll never claim she was a responsible breeder.

Anyway, Flash is not AKC, and his parents were only vet-checked, not fully tested. But I got him for $375, and she drove four hours to bring him to me. At the time I was saving money and fully expecting to pay $2000 for a pet-quality poodle, so I was pretty stoked to take Flash home.

I couldn't be happier. Apart from a sensitive stomach, he's healthy as a horse, and his temperament is wonderful. He's grown into a really fantastic Spoo.


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## Spencer (Oct 7, 2009)

taxtell said:


> Flip boy was a $400 rescue, and about 5 months old.
> He was neutered and vaccinated (the last vaccines he's getting).


I'm interested to hear about why you're not getting Flip vaccinated again/anymore. (That wasn't meant to come off in a RUDE way, it's the text, I swear  I am actually very intrigued and would love to hear why and the reasoning.)

===========================

As well as, to everyone else... poodles are EXPENSIVE! I know that I did some research after I got my baby boy, but I guess it never really set in until I've seen how much you guys have paid. I would love to have a wonderful quality standard in the future, but I'm not sure I can ever see myself paying that much. It is... just... a lot!


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## Cornishbecky (Nov 21, 2009)

Hi All
Not getting involed in the breeding posts!
But I paid £650 (which according to the currency converter is $991) for Roxie, my black min poodle.
She has loads of CH in her pedigree and parents were health tested, and came from a very very good breeder.
I couldnt be happier with my purchase, and i got to choose her KC name.
so prices are quite different in UK
Bec And Gang


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

I paid $750 for Ginger - she was 6 weeks old and is AKC registered - I don't know about testing (didn't know about it then) I wanted a puppy from her but her temperament didn't allow it - Teddy was a resuce but I ended up spening more on him because of his health issues. 6 to half dozen the other - I don't know if I would go to the same breeder because of her temperament although I love her dearly - oh so much - I never thought I could love a dog so much lol - she a a great personality - and she is so smart - Teddy is getting better but i still think he has some brain issues - can't teach him what a ball is - to get it etc - if I get it and throw it he will catch it - he also plays with a ball by himself which is really cute - he throws with his mouth and it bounces and he catches it. I think he had to play alone a lot where he was raised. Ginger is a champion fetcher. Love them both!


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## MericoX (Apr 19, 2009)

Lincoln would've been $300, but spent $350 to get limited papers. He's from BYB.

Tsuki was closer to $400, with full reg. She is from a mill (rescued her from ex-roomate).

Lincoln's parents were tested, but no information was ever submitted. No idea on Tsuki, and I'm guessing it's a big fat NO.


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

apoodleaday said:


> My two cents: (I know probably not needed, but sometimes)
> I am not new to dogs, but I am new to standard poodle ownership. My breeder is not new to dogs, breeding, or showing. She has been a reputable and ethical breeder always. She has 30+ years in great danes. She's newer in poodles. (Actually after one litter, she is out of poodles.) She had quality mentors and helpers. She did all of her testing. She researched her stud dog thoroughly. That being said.........
> Cost of my show poodle $2500 (I did not have to pay all of this as I have her on a co-ownership)
> Cost of her bloat surgery $2300
> ...


Thank you so much for sharing your story. I guess it goes to show that nothing in life comes with guarantees. There is always a risk, even when getting puppies from reputable breeders who show and do all the health testing.


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## vwright (Mar 26, 2010)

I got Boomerang - Standard blue - from a BYB, full AKC rights, no testing $550 he's 2 1/2 and so far health is excellent, temprement is awesome.
I got Laci, - standard black and white parti - from a family that had one parti female, bred her just once, and had 4 pups, Laci was the last in the litter and had a umbilical hernia that we had repaired for $150 - full AKC rights - testing done on both parents and grand parents way back thru her line, - $200 - health is great, temprement so far is great too, she's 1 1/2 yrs old.


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

shalynn said:


> I can not believe some of you are still going on with this, enough bashing my pets and continue the original post!!!


i just want to say one last thing. i don't believe anyone's purpose is to bash your dogs. i, too, am a new spoo lover. always loved the breed, for years, actually, but only acquired my first dog a year ago. i did NOT know what to look for in a breeder. spoke to many, turned off by many, others just didn't have what i was looking for. i fell in love with jessie - she's not akc, her breeder has been breeding spoos 23+ years, etc. HOWEVER, she does NO health testing (i didn't know enough to ask about that, was just satisfied that she came with a health guarantee), she did no genetic testing (i didn't know that was important cause 'parents are premise' sounded like enough for me). i was in love with her from her picture and i knew she was meant to be mine. so far, we are lucky. other than not being a good traveler (car sickness) and somewhat picky eater, jessie is healthy. i love her more all the time. NOW i wish i knew all that i've learned about demanding certain things. these wonderful people, some breeders on this site, others just in love with and dedicated to their dogs and/or the whole breed, are chock full of information and are so willing to share and teach. sometimes an answer can sound arrogant, but you know what, maybe they have a right to sound that way. i would DIE if anything went wrong with jessie as the time goes by that could've been prevented had her parents been tested. my heart would be broken beyond belief. so....maybe your dogs are not perfect specimens of the breed, doesn't matter you love them, don't you? and in the end, isn't that all that matters - that you have dogs that you love to death? what everyone is telling you is the honest truth - don't perpetuate bad traits or potential health risks. however, love those dogs with every breath you have because we are sure they love you just for giving them good homes.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Incredibly well said Jessies Mom!!!


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

thank you, arreaustandardpoodle! btw, hats off to you - i see people on this site have puppies from you. a wonderful credit to your hard work. i always wanted a red - never even thought of another color. but love happens and it happened in chocolate for me  this time around. maybe one day it will be a red and i will be certain to look you up because now i know SO much more.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Jessie's Mom said:


> i see people on this site have puppies from you. a wonderful credit to your hard work.


Not only do some of us HAVE puppies from Arreau, we're PROUD of it!! :beauty: You won't be sorry if you ever decide to add one of these gorgeous redheads to your pack!


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## Trillium (Sep 1, 2009)

plumcrazy said:


> Not only do some of us HAVE puppies from Arreau, we're PROUD of it!! :beauty: You won't be sorry if you ever decide to add one of these gorgeous redheads to your pack!


I couldn't agree more!! They are wonderful dogs!!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Thank you so much, all of you. Very, very kind of you to say these things. I would be honoured if you ever chose to have a puppy from Arreau!! My dogs are not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I am doing everything I can to improve the conformation and choose males who will add their good qaulities where the girls might be lacking. So hopefully one day they will be of a quality that compares to the blacks and the whites.


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## BlueSpoo (Mar 29, 2010)

what jessie's mom said.


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

whoops ... wrong thread


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

desertreef said:


> I'll add a new thread of the breeding I just did, which is with my cream female, Grace.
> 
> *Also, all my puppies leave with $100 worth of food, treats and chews as I am picky with what I want them to eat. And if the buyer would like their remaining vaccines (parvo/distemper combo only) they take that too. *
> 
> Karen


Karen, that's a nice policy to give puppy buyers the vaccines. I found it hard to find the two-way vaccine even though that's what I had been told to use. 

I got my copy of Poodle Variety today with the proud papa on the cover!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Millie - $1,000 both parents tested. limited AKC reg. breeder's first time breading poodles. (CH sire)

Henry- $1,800 both parents tested. limited AKC reg. (CH dam and sire)

EDITED: I did NOT read this whole thread through before replying! WOW.


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## markfsanderson (Oct 25, 2009)

*All of mine were free!!! Well . . . not really*

What I paid is pretty much in line with what everyone else paid. My philosophy, however, is that dogs are free! What I paid for is the breeder time, skill and expenses incurred. Good DVMs, show and grooming expenses, AKC expenses, traveling, stud fees, AI fees and storage . . sheesh . . . too damn much money. Kind of weird way of thinking about it . . . but it makes sense to me!

Mark, Jamie and The Poodle Gangsters


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## spoosrule (Feb 16, 2008)

Savannah was given to me as a gift but her breeder was charging $1,200. Her parents were both health tested.


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## Purley (May 21, 2010)

I am paying $800 (Cdn) for my Mini puppy. Both Mom and Dad are Canadian champions and all the breeding stock have had all health testing done. I haven't talked about what kind of a deal we have because she knows I have no intention of breeding. If she wants a non-breeding contract I will be fine with that. 

Incidentally, in Canada it is illegal to sell a dog as purebred if it is not registered. It is also illegal to charge more for the registration papers. Purebred means registered and so you get the papers for the price of the dog.

I think we are wasting our time with Shaelynn (not sure of the spelling). I would have thought that by being on this board she would be getting educated. It seems to me that she just does not "get it". 

I have learned lots from people on here and I will be happy to go on learning.


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## Karma'sACat (Jun 1, 2010)

My Spoo will be $2500 but will be a fully trained service dog that comes with a bag of food to transition, all necessary equipment (harness, backpack, etc), id card (not required by law but good if we get separated or I am unable to respond), fully vetted and health tested and an awesome support network. Quite honestly, s/he is a steal since the general estimate in the service dog programs across the US is that it equals to about $10,000-$20,000 for each dog.

ETA: Dixie (Catahoula)-Free, entire fee sponsored at animal control. No health testing, poor hips, luxating patella (which caused her early retirement), allergies. Best temperament
Lola (Pit Bull)-Free, left in front yard at ~5-6 weeks. No health testing, severe allergies, exceptional temperament.


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## pap2labc (Jun 25, 2010)

Oliver the toy poodle - 60.00 (rescued from animal control)
Dan the border collie - 0.00 (all health tests, I whelped him)
Possum the border collie - 0.00 (all health tests, breeder is a friend and gave her to me)
Kelda the border collie - 800.00 (all health tests)
Haddie the PON - 2200.00 (full registration, co-ownership, health tests)


Hmmmm....so far Oliver the poodle has been quite the bargain....he's cute, too.


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

markfsanderson said:


> What I paid is pretty much in line with what everyone else paid. My philosophy, however, is that dogs are free! What I paid for is the breeder time, skill and expenses incurred. Good DVMs, show and grooming expenses, AKC expenses, traveling, stud fees, AI fees and storage . . sheesh . . . too damn much money. Kind of weird way of thinking about it . . . but it makes sense to me!
> 
> Mark, Jamie and The Poodle Gangsters


What a wonderful way of looking at it!


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

I have not purchased my poodle yet. It seems like a health tested mini around here (PA) is in the $1500.00 range.

I enjoy reading about costs incurred with all of the poodles. Some rescues turn out to be a bargain, and some with everything "done right" (health testing, etc.) still have problems. You can do your best to get a healthy animal, but there are no guarantees!


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## Cornishbecky (Nov 21, 2009)

I also have 3 other dogs before i got Roxie, 
First was Rio (lab x?) rescued free from the kennels i worked at, fantstic dog but now 9 has mild hip dysplaysia, pearly white teeth but most missing (? broken jaw as pup).
Ky GSD, BYB £100, I was young and uneducated at buying dogs,he is 5 years old, on daily meds since 3 yrs old for really bad Hip Dysplaysia. bad temperment, recurring ear infections, but i love him and luckly can afford treatment.
next was Gypsy (WSD) BYB 10months old when i rescued her (owner (knew my friend) giving them away as couldnt sell them) Stone DEAF, now know some siblings are deaf and have epilepsy as well, but fantastic temperment and so so easy to train.
So I will now only go to the best breed who TEST TEST TEST!!!!

So Although I take some responsiblity for the problems i have with my dogs, i was young and uneducated about testing (as many people are)etc, BUT they should not have been born for someone to buy!

Bec


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

I got my silver mini boy (neuter contract; limited AKC reg.) 2 mths ago for $1200 from a breeder in TN - both sire and dam are CH. and health tested and the puppy comes with health guarantee and lifetime support from the breeder. Shipping from TN to CA was $200.

I looked around for several months trying to get a silver/red (mini/toy) puppy here in CA and nearby states to no avail. It seems that a health tested mini/toy puppy with titled parents in CA/AZ costs $1500+.

I think next time I would get a health-tested puppy from a reputable breeder nearby. Don't get me wrong - I am very very happy with my breeder. But I think the whole shipping process was too stressful for both Nickel and me. I was biting my nails the whole time worrying about how the transit went, etc.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

*UK prices*

I paid GBP 700 (about USD 1100 at the moment) for my miniature, from a breeder who tests, and is a retired judge of the breed. He's got lots of 'red' in his pedigree (denoted finished champions), but is himself not correct enough to show in breed. Which doesn't matter, as I was always going to neuter anyway.


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

I paid $500 for Vega...he was 4 months old when we got him..parents have testing done but no titles. He is neutered.

I paid $150 for Dodger, it was considered a small fee to "adopt" her, and the money went to the Carolina Poodle Rescue. I got her from the same breeder I got Vega from..the breeder originally bought her for her breeding program..but ended up having problems with some of her background and didn't feel she was breed-worthy. She is spayed and living a comfortable life now!

I paid $500 for Sagan from FrostFire Standards, but she gave me a break on price because I went to her house and helped groom the pups and the mom. It was an all day adventure, and well worth it. It was a lot of fun! Parents are tested.


As far as BYB goes...I actually consider Vega to be from what some might consider a BYB..however, I don't think her breeding was horrible. She at least made sure her dogs were clear of genetic diseases that might cripple his life. She doesn't show so while he has some comformation faults, I believe him to be a healthy, sound pet. I wish I had done more research before buying him..but overall his breeder has been a wonderful source of information. She is always contacting me and asking if there is anything wrong, or if anything has come up that she should be aware of health/temperment wise. I personally thing breeding should be left to the experienced people... 

My first dog I got when I moved out on my own is my beautiful German Shepherd, Pandora. I didn't know better...I checked the newspaper and found an ad for German Shepherd Puppies for $100. I went to look at them..the mom and dad were nice looking dogs..nothing near conformation standards for show or working line GSD's.. but I couldn't help myself. I saw adorable puppies running around and had to have one. So I bought one!

I had originally picked out a male..before leaving I didn't even realize the "breeder" handed me a female..so I went home with the wrong dog technically. Luckily, it was a great mistake because Pandora is an amazing dog. HOWEVER her price quickly went up after she came home.

I spent $100 on her at the BYB...

The next night she was very very sick..I rushed her to the vet only to find out she had parvo and mange.

It was about $950 to clear up the parvo...

After that was done the vet wanted to do mitaban dips to clear her of the mange she had..that was another $300. She also had not been wormed or given shots..and that was another $150.

So...I pretty much paid $1400 for a BYB - bred dog within a week of having her. I could have put that money towards a well bred GSD and saved myself a lot of heartache! I love my Pandora very much..she's a great dog and I hope to have her for many many years...but I don't wish going through that on anyone. It was a nightmare getting her healthy. 

She also has temperment issues with strange dogs. It takes her a bit to get used to a new dog... I'm also the only person in the world who can trim her nails.

So Shaylin..while you might really want to breed your dogs...consider the possible heartache for one of your puppy buyers should anything go wrong.


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

This is not a poodle story, but a valuable lesson I learned recently when my mother "rescued" a pup. 

My mother lives in a different state than I do, and she went to get this pup without my knowing until later. She was really wanting a companion for herself, and a chihuahua she has. (My sister bought it from a pet store...ug...many years ago! He has been fine health-wise, luckily....) She saw an add in the paper from a woman who claimed to "rescue" dogs, they had a lot of "designer breeds" though. Sounds like a mill broker or something to me. Anyway, this woman had a lot of pups, (ALOT) running around. One "chose" my mother. It was supposed to be a chihuahua mix. (I don't know what he is; he is cute, but certainly a Heinz 57). He had his first round of shots. The day after she brought him home, he was deathly ill and vomiting. She found these green berries in the vomit and thought he had eaten something poisonous (not in her care, by the way, when he ate it, whatever it was.) Off to the vet's office where he literally almost died on the table. They kept him for 3 days, and said it "smelled like parvo", but that he could be having a false positive because of the vaccine. So, 3 days later, and after a total of over $2,000.00 (including the initial cost of the pup) she has a mutt that she dearly loves. She is convinced that he chose her because he knew she would save him. This dog is her world. She moved a few years ago out of state and has had such a hard time adjusting. She says she has never owned a pet that was really "hers" and this is certainly "her" dog. She has talked to people on walks now, because of the dog being an icebreaker. He was a "lifesaver" for her, too! But, I surely don't feel bad about seeking out a good breeder that does health testing, and paying between $1,000.00 and $2,000.00 for a well bred pup with a sound temperament!


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

I paid $250 for Elphie, from a former board member IPP ((I didn't know she was a member here until someone posted on an old thread and I saw her avatar v.v; )) 

thankfully I haven't had any health problems come up with her yet...but I'm always anticipating the worst so I have a separate savings account for her alone that I keep money in for any emergency that would ever arise

though I haven't had any health problems with her, I wish I had been able to stop myself from fueling a BYB and her horrid breeding practices


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