# Info on Sandpiper and Kit Sue kennels please



## Mercury's Mom

I have finally tracked down the pedigree of my boys' dam and have found out that quite a few of the dogs come from the sandpiper and kit sue kennels. I was hoping that someone may know something about the kennels and possibly the dogs directly related to my boys.

Some of the dogs on their's dam's side are va legends what legends r made of, mccasland's monique, sandpipers parksville pride, G's sonomas tacoma sunrise, sandpipers the eyes have it, sandpipers fallow your dream, kit sue's presley scout, kit-sue's free bee's key-put, kit-sue's chason choclate and gwen night dreamer. 

I emailed the owner of kit sue kennel and she said that she used to own the great grandpa of my boys, kit sue's presley scout who was born in 02, but doesn't have any other info or photos. A friend of mine thinks that may indicate that it is a mill? I don't want to jump to conclusions though. I am trying to compile info on my boys' family including what photos I can find. Part of the reason Im doing this is because I want any medical info available as well as because I feel the more I know about their family the more I will understand them, possible temperment issues, structural issues etc. I may just be crazy though.

My boys' sire is from goldmine and biblot lines and know a bit about them now, thanks to the super smart poodle people here.

Any info will be appreciated. Thanks


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## cbrand

Kitsue is one of the more notorious high volume breeders in the US. Her dogs can be found in the pedigrees of most BYB and puppymill Poodles. She also sold to Doodle breeders for years and her dogs are behind many American bred Doodles.

Basically she sold breeding dogs to anyone who came cash in hand. She has a history of breeding very young dogs and she never did much testing. She seems to breed towards trends. When Reds were first hot, I know she bred that color. Now she seems to have moved on to Partis. I guess she focuses on whatever sells the best.


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## Mercury's Mom

Ah...makes sense. The only place I could find kit sue's presley scout online was in several labradoodle's pedigrees. The kit sue spoos on my boys' pedigree are all parti spoos. 

Is she an outright mill or just has a ton of spoos in kennels but sanitary, well fed etc? I guess it doesn't really matter as I know Mercury and Jupiter don't come from high end lines but I guess it would really bother me to think that dogs had to be in tiny filthy cages popping out babies for my boys to exist.


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## Purple Poodle

My Standard has Kit-Sue lines in her and the lady I got my dog from bought her male directly from her, she picked up the puppy from Sue's house and what she told me was it was a Poodle farm. Kennels and runs all over, all dogs were clean and sheared down to nothing but top knot and ears. She had 80+ breeding dogs and 5 litters on the ground all between 8 and 12 weeks old. The puppy my friend has vomited and pooed the entire car ride back to Oklahoma. His coat still astounds me as his brown spots have soft wavy hair and his white is very coarse. This is him as of November 2009.

His pedigree is located here -> http://www.poodlepedigree.com/pedigree.asp?ID=375262

Oh and he was sold with full registration and was told that if bred he would throw "red" parti puppies.

I can not comment on Sandpipers, I have heard of them but know nothing about them really.


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## Fluffyspoos

http://www.poodlepedigree.com/offspring.asp?ID=125105 here's the offspring of one of their dogs. HOLY CRAP is all I have to say.


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## bigredpoodle

Fluffyspoos said:


> http://www.poodlepedigree.com/offspring.asp?ID=125105 here's the offspring of one of their dogs. HOLY CRAP is all I have to say.


OMG and no health testing !!!!!!


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## thestars

My very first UKC show I was introduced to Sue and the two parti poodles which she brought for Grand Champion class, which one of them was Preston. She couldn't even cage her dogs because she said they'd be shooting out both ends. Both couldn't stay off her lap. I held them in front of her so she could at least have lunch without them being up on her. Sue is the one on the left.









Their was a male parti poodle from Colorado that beat the entire class out repeatedly. He was the most gorgeous parti I had ever seen. I have a picture of the ladies grooming the female they brought too but can't remember their names.


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## Olie

Thats a lot of income for her. She must be hardened after years of doing what she is doing.......


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## KPoos

Oh wow, I can't imagine having that many dogs to clean up after and feed on a regular basis.


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## Mercury's Mom

Thanks for the great photos! I assume Presley is the silver parti laying down? He is a very handsom boy. I am glad she was affectionate with the dogs and takes an interest in showing. What did you mean by "shooting out both ends"? 

That is quite a lot of offspring and often that site only has a partial list so I wonder how many there are in reality.


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## KPoos

I'd assume it to mean diarrhea and vomiting because they are nervous. They are looking to her to reassure them which is why they are all over her.


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## Olie

Mercury's Mom said:


> Thanks for the great photos! I assume Presley is the silver parti laying down? He is a very handsom boy. I am glad she was affectionate with the dogs and takes an interest in showing. What did you mean by "shooting out both ends"?
> 
> That is quite a lot of offspring and often that site only has a partial list so I wonder how many there are in reality.


Maybe a good chance they were out of their element. 

I wonder what the ladies beside her are thinking..........I'm weird and pick up on strange details lol. One looks like she is sweet as can be smiling through something and the other looks mad at the world like:thefinger: The silver one that she had looks good - but they don't look that great to me (the dogs)......but who am I?!


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## Mercury's Mom

I emailed the woman who owns the Sandpiper kennel and she has written back and I must say Im impressed. Even though my dogs are a few generations away from her dogs she is being great. She will be sending me medical history, photos etc on the dogs on my boys' pedigree. I honestly expected to get a similar responce that I got from kit sue. She seems happy to share about her dogs which is how I think a breeder should be. Ill let everyone know what I learn.


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## bigredpoodle

Thanks for the pictures stars It looks like they are having fun at the show !
Corrrect, lots of dogs suffer from nerves at the dog show. It is just as stressfull for them as it is for us...Imodium is carried in my tackbox....


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## Bella's Momma

Wow. That's a lot of puppies! I wonder what happened to the mama pup...

The only "Carefree" poodles I can find is a website for Carefree Labrodoodles. That seems odd to me...same people??

My dog also has a Carefree and Kit-Sue in her history so I find this thread very interesting. Bella's grandmother was a "Carefree" and one of the 7 litters (to the same male, w/in 4 1/2 year span) on the pedigree site shows two of them being named "Kit-Sue" so I'm guess Sue bought 2 of my pups "Aunts" and named them her kennel name. At least that's the best this novice can get from all this! 

And now her site is all parti poodles.


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## thestars

Mercury's Mom said:


> Thanks for the great photos! I assume Presley is the silver parti laying down? He is a very handsom boy. I am glad she was affectionate with the dogs and takes an interest in showing. What did you mean by "shooting out both ends"?
> 
> That is quite a lot of offspring and often that site only has a partial list so I wonder how many there are in reality.


No, Preston is the brown and white party with the black and white party girl who is on Sue.
Shooting out both ends means that if she puts the dog in the cage they get so upset that have flying vomit and diarrhea.


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## thestars

It wasn't stress of the dog show, they are such momma's babbies she can't leave them alone.


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## Mercury's Mom

Oh, I had assumed that Preston was the silver parti laying down because he is registered as a silver and white parti. My boys' sire is registered as a color he isn't though so I guess one can't always go by that. I wish I could see the brown parti's face a bit better but certainly do appreciate getting to see as much as I do. I think they are all quite beautiful. Of course, I have only ever seen one spoo that I found unattractive.


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## KPoos

thestars said:


> It wasn't stress of the dog show, they are such momma's babbies she can't leave them alone.


Yeah that doesn't sound like normal behaviors.


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## Purple Poodle

KPoos said:


> Yeah that doesn't sound like normal behaviors.


I agree.

When my friend when to get her dog Sue did have a few dogs who lived in the house with her.

I also wanted tyo mention that there was a DNA mishap with Sue's dog "Pilgrim" who is the grand sire of my dog, when she submitted "Pilgrims" DNA test to AKC his did NOT match the sire listed on his papers. It also did not match any of the dogs she owns/were tested and it came down to being a "mutation".

Anyway her website is very misleading and from what I have found is she is a very high volume breeder.


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## Cdnjennga

KPoos said:


> Yeah that doesn't sound like normal behaviors.


Also agreed... Well socialized and adjusted dogs don't need to climb all over their owners in public. Something odd there.


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## roxy25

Cdnjennga said:


> Also agreed... Well socialized and adjusted dogs don't need to climb all over their owners in public. Something odd there.


IMo that is not a normal behavior either.
probably severe separation anxiety or fear. My GSD display the same thing when we went to the vet lol. She would climb all over me and be super clingy and would whine but gsd are vocal.


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## Moxie

*Show Photos*

The CO blue/white boy is Sherman.He is the #2 dog on Top 10 list in UKC.He was #1 but was bumped to #2 by Stoney,who is #1 now.My boy Aden beat Stoney 3 times in Ohio. I have seen Sherman in person too at a show in NC,he is a pretty dog. I "assume" what she means when she says " both ends" is they probably are not used to being crated and will freak out in one.LOL


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## bigredpoodle

Huh ? I think I missed something????


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## Moxie

*initial post*

LOL,sorry,I was responding to an earlier post where the photos were about this thread at a show.I think it was on page one.I didnt know how to reply under it.
Sorry if I lost you.LOL


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## bigredpoodle

Moxie said:


> LOL,sorry,I was responding to an earlier post where the photos were about this thread at a show.I think it was on page one.I didnt know how to reply under it.
> Sorry if I lost you.LOL


Thats okay it just populated my email and I am like HUH? HA HA 
Hit the quote button under the post you want to respond to , instead of the QR button..


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## WonderPup

Saleen has kitsue in her pedigree, but it's in the last listed generation and only one dog unless I am mistaken, Her sire is a silver and white parti, pretty boy (marking wise) and just from the one picture on the website he look OK bodywise, maybe not - what do I know and you can hide a lot in a photo  
Saleen's breeder reccently began to get pretty high volume, or maybe she always was and I just caught her at a time when Saleen's litter was the only one?? she's always got puppies avilable now and usually with reduced prices, most are on limited reg. but not all.  She just started breeding doodles though with Saleen's sire. Sad. 

I've started to really like parti's and have noticed a lot of kitsue dogs in those pedigrees. I would have been over the moon if Saleen's sire had suddenly become avialble for some reason or another, I might not be able to resist (no not because I want to use him at stud). He's just such a pretty boy and visually interesting - gosh I'm an awful person when it comes to color!! 

I've never heard of sandpiper, I want to look the up now. 


Just a side note on the behavior, I do not agree that it's totally abnormal for a dog to get act like that at a show. It's not fun, or desirable but it's not really unusual and doesn't point to any major behavior malfunctions all by itself. If they act that way all the time... that might be different. We have dogs, Mr. Wonderful is one of them, that cannot easily be crated at a show. There is nothing wrong with his temperment he just doesn't like it and it's a situation where you can I say pick your battles. He will bark and scream and carry on something awful until he makes himself sick and then he's too tired to show well. He gets stuck in the little annoying doggie stroller and wheeled around and he's happy as a clam, but don't put him a kennel and try leave him there. He's such a drama king lol. Ironicly he can be kenneled any other time, be it at home or classes or whever - just not at a show?? Maybe he's picking up on people nerves in those cases?? I haven't shown him yet, only my mother has so we'll see what he does in march when he goes with me.
I've lost count of the number of dogs I've handled in the past that have been stressed to the point of digestive upset at shows. Some dogs are just like that...


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## Moxie

bigredpoodle said:


> Thats okay it just populated my email and I am like HUH? HA HA
> Hit the quote button under the post you want to respond to , instead of the QR button..


AHHH,LOL OK,Thanks. This "forum" thing is a little tricky to master.LOL I'm getting there.... Thanks for the help


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

Moxie said:


> AHHH,LOL OK,Thanks. This "forum" thing is a little tricky to master.LOL I'm getting there.... Thanks for the help


Hey you...have a look at the thread "Funny photos". The Whippet pictures will bring back memories!!


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## Moxie

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> Hey you...have a look at the thread "Funny photos". The Whippet pictures will bring back memories!!


OK,I'll go look.I remember those from last year.LOL


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## bigredpoodle

Moxie said:


> AHHH,LOL OK,Thanks. This "forum" thing is a little tricky to master.LOL I'm getting there.... Thanks for the help


You are welcome Moxy ! Anytime !


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

Bella's Momma said:


> Wow. That's a lot of puppies! I wonder what happened to the mama pup...
> 
> The only "Carefree" poodles I can find is a website for Carefree Labrodoodles. That seems odd to me...same people??
> 
> My dog also has a Carefree and Kit-Sue in her history so I find this thread very interesting. Bella's grandmother was a "Carefree" and one of the 7 litters (to the same male, w/in 4 1/2 year span) on the pedigree site shows two of them being named "Kit-Sue" so I'm guess Sue bought 2 of my pups "Aunts" and named them her kennel name. At least that's the best this novice can get from all this!
> 
> And now her site is all parti poodles.


I am not defending Kit-Sue in any way, but just get the feeling everyone seems to think the dog in question is a female. I doubt any girl could have 17 litters in it's lifetime, and know a good many stud dogs who have sire upwards of thirty litters. So for a stud, this is not an outrageous number of breedings.

Dammit...I did not mean to resurrect this ancient thread, but it was on the New Posts. Someone must have posted something then deleted it. I apologize profusely!


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