# We did it. We got our BN title



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Congratulations! I am glad you are able to get a move up for tomorrow. And don't panic over the heel free. If Babykins is connected to you up to that point her off leash heel should be as good as on leash.


Who is the judge? I am always interested in collecting names of good judges.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

:cheers2: Congratulations! And big wishes for the Novice class tomorrow! All that training has paid off.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Congrats, Skyler! :adore: Babykins is really excelling! What was her latest score?


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Theodore Walshesky We had some 4H kids competing and one of them didn’t qualify so he spoke to both the girl and her trainer to make sure they understood the problem and how to fix it. He let another woman repeat sit for exam a second time when her dog moved.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Thanks. As for her score, OMG I don’t know. I was in such a rush to leave so I could get to her nose work class and they hadn’t posted the scores before we left which was odd. They did announce them as they handed out the ribbons but I was so nervous I didn’t hear it. I was just so happy that we were getting our title that I wasn’t prepared to be announced as first. 

Immediately after the ribbons were handed out we ran to nose work class where my dog was too busy heeling to sniff. We have our first nose work competition in 2 weeks and this was the last class. The trainers were setting up competition courses so I wanted to go and be more fully prepared.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

OMG! That is so exciting and well done, Team Babykins! You two are raking in the titles. Congratulations!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Congratulations! Sweet success is always nice to hear!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I have not met your judge, but he sounds very nice and a lot like the judge that I showed to one of the days we were in Binghamton this summer, James Ham. He had a very nice rally masters course that Lily did a nice job with and then also gave a very nice pre-class briefing for Beginner Novice. He too spoke with each handler at the end of the awards to go over the run. He said nice things about Javelin's heeling, but noted that his figure 8 had been "pretty atrocious," but said it with a smile and I had to agree it was a horrible figure 8, but that was the day the nasty toller had tried to attack him just before we went in. I told Mr. Ham that I thought that was why he had been so inattentive to me and he was very understanding.


You should always try to stick around and look at the score sheets. It will tell you what you need to work on to see where you got points off. Most of us just take a picture of it. There will always be a bit of a delay between the end of a class and it being posted. The judge completes their part and then it is taken to the trial secretary who then takes it apart and posts the copy that is made available to the exhibitors.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

You did it! Great job! I am so proud of you. Onward and upward from here.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Thanks. 

Well today Novice was a no Q. Heeling off leash was atrocious but we managed to squeak a qualifying score to go back in for the long sit and down. So close, Babykins was doesn’t like to go down lately which we’ve been working on. She used to do it without problems for so long and then decided she wasn’t. We did the sit portion, no problem. I had trouble getting her to down, but she did go down, except as I was leaving her I tripped on her leash and pulled on it and that made her stand up as I was walking 6’ away. I was so embarrassed. This has never happened before. So I left her in the stand while I stood 6’ away because I didn’t want to ruin anyone else’s down stay. 

This judge did a few things she shouldn’t have done in the ring. For the stand for exam, she walked into my dog as I was walking away before I got into position 6’ away. And she petted my dog on the head then she rubbed and petted her back vigorously brim head to tail. OMG my dog stayed for that. She was only supposed to gently pat my dog across the back and not to touch the head. 

In the heeling she walked in front of us as we were walking instead of staying to the side. However the reason we didn’t qualify is we aren’t ready. We need more training before we enter next time. There was a difference, in beginner novice we took first and second placement for all our legs. If I hadn’t tripped we would have qualified but would have been barely qualifying score. 

But I’m glad we did it, it’s helpful to me to have been through the process. Now I’ll go to the run through at my club to get more experience before we trial again.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I'm proud of you for going for it, Skylar. And I know that you'll get a CD. It's good to look at the NQ's as diagnostic. Where did we go wrong? What threw my dog off? What needs more training? Noelle has NQ'd twice in Novice. We're going to continue in Rally until she has her RE and then go back to Novice with more ring experience. It's a little intimidating to enter a trial, isn't it? Here's a huge hug and pat on the back. Onward! You've got this.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Congratulations! It sounds like you are having a blast. Good luck with the next step.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Oh that is too bad, but it showed you important things.


Many older judges do still really put hands on for the stand for exam, so make sure you are prepared for that. Some judges work super fast like this one and some judges will be in odd places or move at odd times. It is what it is, but probably the exam is the biggest thing that is likely to not look as you anticipate.


The down stay is one of the hardest things for many dogs since it forces them to remain in a vulnerable position for the duration and does that potentially with dogs behind as well as on either side. I would only do down stays for a while and make sure you have dogs behind Babykins. 



Go to matches and treat them like trials from the set up to go in to the exit. You will get this!


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Thanks and yes, we're not going back into the competition ring until we are better prepared. We will be going to the monthly run through - the good thing about those is I can give extra commands and reward with food etc. - all the things you can do while training that you can't do in the ring. We both need to run through this many times so we're both more comfortable.

I'm also going to mention to my trainers about the stand for exam - I've had many trainers since they usually do a 2 month class then someone else takes over - and they have all done the quick pat, pat, pat down the back and they always stand 6 feet away and wait till you're in position. Clearly we need to practice more variation and more aggressive "exam" in class. Babykins didn't move but I can't be guaranteed next time so we need to prepare for it.

And yes, those down stays - normally once I get her down she stays - but I've never tripped and pulled on the leash before - so we've got to work on that too.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Click some people were saying it wasn't a good idea of to Rally is you're serious about Obedience............ but people were complaining about how hard the heeling pattern was on Saturday. Because of Rally basically being one crazy long heeling pattern with a few odd things such as a jump in between we were fully comfortable with that heeling pattern and didn't feel it was hard. I'm with you - we're having fun in rally.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

The older members of my club gripe about rally being lazy obedience. The scoring isn't strict enough, in my day, etc., and I've heard that rally ruins heeling, too. However, if you look at the Advanced, Excellent and Masters signs, there are elements of traditional obedience tucked inside. Like, the Excellent signs that get dogs familiar with signals. Walk 6 feet away, down your dog, recall and finish. Walk six feet away, sit your dog, recall and finish. Heel, and without warning, tell your dog to stay and keep walking. Those skills are all there.

I guess it depends on the person training the dog and what their goals are. Noelle and I flow in Rally in ways that we don't in traditional obedience, yet. Perhaps it is the silence that makes it difficult for me to connect with Noelle. Working in public is like one long rally course. Go around the people, left u-turn to avoid the kid yelling, "Doggie," halt, sit... Perhaps that's why Rally connects with me better right now. Also, Noelle is my first obedience dog, so neither of us have a lot of experience. Gaining ring experience in Rally is preparing both of us for traditional obedience. Perhaps, with my next dog, I'll start with obedience and finish with Rally. But, with Noelle, this is the right path forward for us.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Click I agree with you. Rally is preparing us for drop on recall and signal exercises etc. While the Rally people tend to heel with their hands leading their dog, especially the landing strip into front - I keep my left hand at my waist and just use my voice to call front which is what I need in Obedience but works in Rally.

Yes rules for heeling in rally aren't as rigid but that doesn't stop anyone from heeling like obedience in the ring. The no speaking in Obedience is definitely harder.


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

lily cd re said:


> <snip>
> You should always try to stick around and look at the score sheets. It will tell you what you need to work on to see where you got points off. Most of us just take a picture of it. There will always be a bit of a delay between the end of a class and it being posted. The judge completes their part and then it is taken to the trial secretary who then takes it apart and posts the copy that is made available to the exhibitors.


Check the math, too. If deductions + final score don't = 200, politely ask the secretary to ask the judge to check. It happens. Not often, but it does.

It took me a while to reach the decision to track where my deductions are coming from (actually, it was about the time when my scores started breaking 190+). I now make copious notes and transfer the point values to a spreadsheet so I can track where our weak points are (e.g., go-outs and signals, both exercises where we're far apart) and where we're actually pretty reliable (e.g., directed retrieve, his favorite exercise--he makes the judges smile).

*Congratulations *on your new title! May you have many more!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Congratulations on your new title ! Your hard work has paid off !


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

Regarding rally being "lazy obedience" or something to be avoided if your goal is "formal obedience" ...

... If you enjoy being thrown into the deep end of the pool on your first swimming lesson--sure, start with formal obedience.

It might work with some handlers and some dogs, but Neely was and is a highly distractible dog. I wanted to get him used to a show environment early on, before the pressure to perform was greater than his ability to do as I asked. So we did NOT start with rally--we started with conformation in UKC. Then rally in several venues. Then CDSP obedience (where verbal encouragement is allowed and treats permitted at the end of an exercise). Then UKC obedience (the club I belong to does UKC events), and finally AKC obedience.

So we had quite a long on-ramp toward AKC obedience. I owe our recent successes to my Utility class teacher, who has very good training advice as well as many creative distractions to proof against. I found her class a year or so ago, after working on my own up until then. 

I can't overstate the importance of a good instructor. I can't say I've had any BAD instructors, but I've had a number of inadequate ones that lacked either the experience or the interest in helping us to move the needle forward. If you can't find a class, you might be able to ask around and get individual instruction as time and finances allow.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I don't think rally as it is now is lazy obedience in any way shape or form. You won't know what the course is until about 30 minutes before you run it. You could have any combination of a large number of exercises. In novice obedience and open A and utility A you know what the exercises will be exactly (although you won't know the specifics of the heeling pattern or where the figure 8 will be and such. 



However, if you are dependent on really disconnecting from your dog to read the signs rally will chop up your heeling and will allow the dog to disconnect from looking up at you for cues. If you have an identic memory and can do a rally course by glancing at signs while staying connected to the dog that is a different story. This is why Javelin will get much further into his obedience progress before he goes back to rally.


Both approaches have their merits, but should be adapted to the dog's needs for support that will end with success.


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## scooterscout99 (Dec 3, 2015)

mvhplank said:


> Regarding rally being "lazy obedience" or something to be avoided if your goal is "formal obedience" ...
> 
> ... If you enjoy being thrown into the deep end of the pool on your first swimming lesson--sure, start with formal obedience.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this astute observation. Same here. My well-behaved 8 mo spoo morphed into a very energetic and distractable teenager. At nearly 3 years he is calming down. We also finished the BN title last weekend, but it was a bumpy path. A different exercise tripped us up in each NQ run.

I’m waiting to see who the instructors are for my club’s next session of novice obedience class. There is something to learn from every instructor however, there are a few that I’ll never take a class from again. Although I would like to continue in obedience (utility looks like so much fun!), I’m not in any hurry. Meanwhile we are active in agility, barn hunt and nosework (not active now but with titles in rally, fast cat, trick dog, and conformation).

We are fortunate to have an array of dog sports to choose from these days.


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

scooterscout99 said:


> <snip> Although I would like to continue in obedience (utility looks like so much fun!), I’m not in any hurry. Meanwhile we are active in agility, barn hunt and nosework (not active now but with titles in rally, fast cat, trick dog, and conformation).
> 
> We are fortunate to have an array of dog sports to choose from these days.


Yes, more dog sports than I have entry fees!

Every dog is teaching me something. I'm "thinking" of getting a puppy in the spring, and I'll start him much earlier on go-outs than I did Neely, who I started earlier on retrieving than I did the rat terrier that preceded him.

In other words, have a good time and start playing with utility-level games and skills. Honestly, it took us YEARS to get the UKC glove exercises to the point where he could reliably get them done.

If you're curious, there's a description in my announcement of his UUD title: https://www.poodleforum.com/24-performance-agility-obedience-hunting/265901-another-title-neely.html#post3199447


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