# Heartguard users ... maybe time to switch?



## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

if not heartguard, what do you use?


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

I use Advocate once a month for fleas, heartworm, lungworm, most other worms except roundworms. It doesn't kill ticks though, so when we go to France (where there are nasty tick-borne diseases), I use Advantix. Both Bayer products.


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

We also use Advocate, and I notice that ours lists roundworm as one of the worms it kills. Have you found it no good for roundworm, JE?

(Just realised our vet has given us a 3 month supply for dogs up to 4kg but Ruscha has now passed the 4kg point... sigh... silly vet!)


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Sorry, I'm an idiot. Advocate does everything but ticks (not such a problem for me) and tapeworms, which the vet advises Drontal Plus for. I'm not SO worried about the tapes, so I tend to extend the recommended every-three-months Drontal worming, especially as it sometimes upsets his stomach.

I had a similar problem with having some of the wrong dosage ... my vet took it back and credited me (bless them). Might try it with yours?


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

I'm a little worried about ticks but only because they scare the living bejesus out of me! 

Yay - the vet gave me the right dosage for free, as I've joined their little pet care scheme. Can anyone make use of two doses of Advocate for dogs up to 4kg? I don't want anything for them and will post FOC too, as I'm such a nice guy!

Does this make me a pusher of some kind?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I use interceptor. I used sentinel in the past (same drug
with the addition of flea birth control.). I've never had a flea problem, so my integrative vet suggested using program and dealing with fleas if I see them.

ETA: I use Frontline on a limited basis (not even monthly) between April and November. I make sure the dogs have had a dose of Frontline within one month of going on a hike in a wooded area.


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## Annie and me (Jun 30, 2011)

Does Advocate protect against everything that Heartguard does? Right now I use Heartguard and Frontline Plus (I MUST use Frontline for ticks; we live in the Lyme Disease capital of the country:afraid.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

There's a vet who has done a nice set of comparison charts here . They have comparison charts for heartworm, flea, and tick control products.


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

Whole Dog Journal has a very informative and comprehensive article about the issues with all the heartworm meds - pros and cons - and compares what they work best on (WDJ Vol 14 Issue 7, July 2011). 

the problem, for the most part, is that there is a strain of heartworm that is becoming resistant to the meds now being used. however, this resistant strain is not in all parts of the country. the article does mention the lawsuit and the letters sent by the FDA instructing Merial (maker of Heartgard) to stop advertising that it has 100% effectiveness. Heartgard, Interceptor, and Revolution demonstrated an efficacy rate of only about 95%. they did a study using "...Heartgard Plus, Interceptor, Revolution and Advantage Multi. they infected 40 dogs with heartworm larvae. 30 days later the dogs were treated with one of the four preventatives. 4 months after treatment, an average of 2.3 adult heartworms were found in 7 of 8 dogs in each of the first three groups; only Advantage Multi was found to be 100% effective." 

considering that 7 of 8 treated dogs were heartworm positive, they go on to explain that the 95% effective rate does NOT mean that 95% of the dogs remained heartworm free, but means the treated dogs had 9% fewer adult heartworms than untreated.

bottom line is none of them are 100% effective according to this article. they continue to talk about increased dosage which is why Interceptor may be more effective since its dosage of active ingredients is FIVE TIMES the minimum amount that has been determined to be effective.

they also mention that the continued use of Heartgard is not a bad option because the active ingredient has some effect against adult heartworms - ones that developed when the dog was not protected, or developed despite the use of preventative.

it is an excellent article and i strongly recommend reading it in it's complete form because it covers a lot more than i can include here. bottom line is we need to do our own due diligence, talk to our vet if we need to, and make the best decision possible taking into consideration our geographic location.


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## CharlieMyPoodle (Jun 22, 2011)

We use Interceptor, but thank you for sharing the info. Important to know.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Another interesting tidbit that I learned from my friend who is a vet tech - heartworm meds actually only need to be taken every 45 days, the manufacturer suggests every 30 days to ensure too much time does not lapse. Additionally, heatworm meds do not prevent heartworms, they kill the ( I'm not sure of appropriate terminology, maybe larvae?, correct me
If I'm wrong) before they become adult heartworms. The meds can kill any heartworms that the dog has gotten within 45 days. So, it actually works backward from how one might assume. 

Finally, interceptor/sentinel can be very harmful if taken when a dog has adult IF large amounts of microflorea are being circulated. I have been told that heartgard is not harmful even if adult heartworms & microflorae exist, though. In fact, a very large dose of heartgard can be given to treat adult heartworms.


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## CharlieMyPoodle (Jun 22, 2011)

ChocolateMillie said:


> Another interesting tidbit that I learned from my friend who is a vet tech - heartworm meds actually only need to be taken every 45 days, the manufacturer suggests every 30 days to ensure too much time does not lapse. Additionally, heatworm meds do not prevent heartworms, they kill the ( I'm not sure of appropriate terminology, maybe larvae?, correct me
> If I'm wrong) before they become adult larvae. The meds can kill any heartworms that the dog has gotten within 45 days. So, it actually works backward from how one might assume.
> 
> Finally, not sure if this is true, but according to a vet tech interceptor/sentinel can be very harmful if taken when a dog has adult heartworms. heartgard is not harmful, though. In fact, a very large dose of heartgard can be given to treat adult heartworms.


I wonder then, why the vet suggested we get Interceptor. 
They had both brands, and we went to the vet's suggestion. 

She did say that either way, it will have the same effect, and she also told us we could buy the store brand also. Interceptor, according to her, is only available by prescription. 

A bit confused here.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

CharlieMyPoodle said:


> I wonder then, why the vet suggested we get Interceptor.
> They had both brands, and we went to the vet's suggestion.
> 
> She did say that either way, it will have the same effect, and she also told us we could buy the store brand also. Interceptor, according to her, is only available by prescription.
> ...


All heartworm meds are only available by prescription. Also, bloodwork must be done to ensure that the dog does not have adult heartworms. I use interceptor, it is not a bad drug at all!


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## CharlieMyPoodle (Jun 22, 2011)

Oh, I remember now. She was talking about two different things: heartworm medicine and flea and tick medicine. She was saying that the flea and tick you can buy in the store. 

Being so new to all this, I must have gotten the two mixed up when she was talking about them. 

And yes, Charlie had all exams and tests. 
Thanks for the clarification.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/heartworm/


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## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

I used to use Interceptor as I had a rescue Bamm Bamm who was a newfie/aussie mix.

I use Heartgard and will continue to use it, I try to stay away from anything that has Plus next to the name. Foxxy and Baldr are both just over 50lbs (well Baldr goes between 48 and 51) so I give them the 51-100 chewables. Ivermectin is safe to use in increased dosages, it is used at dosages 50 times greater to treat demodectic mange for weeks or months. Fortunately I do not live in an area of high rates of Heartworm, actually we are on the lower end, but Heartworm is pretty much everywhere, and so are mosquitoes, and it takes only one.

I do not like to over vaccinate nor over use preventatives, but one has to make an educated choice. Just because there is a whistleblower lawsuit against Merial does not mean you should stop using HeartGard, it just means you should educate yourself.
Heartgard is the only one that will kill adult Heartworms, it is used in the treatment of Heartworms.


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## Annie and me (Jun 30, 2011)

SnorPuddel said:


> I used to use Interceptor as I had a rescue Bamm Bamm who was a newfie/aussie mix.
> 
> I use Heartgard and will continue to use it, *I try to stay away from anything that has Plus next to the name.* Foxxy and Baldr are both just over 50lbs (well Baldr goes between 48 and 51) so I give them the 51-100 chewables. Ivermectin is safe to use in increased dosages, it is used at dosages 50 times greater to treat demodectic mange for weeks or months. Fortunately I do not live in an area of high rates of Heartworm, actually we are on the lower end, but Heartworm is pretty much everywhere, and so are mosquitoes, and it takes only one.
> 
> ...


Hi - why do you avoid 'Plus' meds? Just curious. Is it because it's more than you need?


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## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

Annie and me said:


> Hi - why do you avoid 'Plus' meds? Just curious. Is it because it's more than you need?


Yes that is exactly why, it also limits the way you can use the med.

I prefer single antigen vaccines as well, but sadly now it is pretty much impossible to get Distemper by itself, it is paired with Hepatitis now.


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## jade cat (Sep 22, 2009)

JE-UK said:


> In the news that pharma company Merial is being sued  by an ex-employee whistleblower, who accuses the company of fudging its figures on efficacy.
> 
> I don't use this product, but if I did, I think I'd be looking for an alternative!


I use program plus;
Uses
PROGRAM PLUS tablets are indicated for the prevention of fleas (Ct. felis, Ct. canis, preadult stages), and for the concurrent prevention of heartworm disease (elimination of 3rd and 4th larval stages of Dirofilaria immitis) and/or treatment of adult stages of gastrointestinal nematodes such as hookworms (Ancylostoma caninum), roundworms (Toxocara canis) and whipworms (Trichuris vulpis) in dogs.
This was taken from:The National Office of Animal Health (NOAH) represents the UK animal medicines industry: its aim is to promote the benefits of safe, effective, quality medicines for the health and welfare of all animals.


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## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

jade cat said:


> I use program plus;
> Uses
> PROGRAM PLUS tablets are indicated for the prevention of fleas (Ct. felis, Ct. canis, preadult stages), and for the concurrent prevention of heartworm disease (elimination of 3rd and 4th larval stages of Dirofilaria immitis) and/or treatment of adult stages of gastrointestinal nematodes such as hookworms (Ancylostoma caninum), roundworms (Toxocara canis) and whipworms (Trichuris vulpis) in dogs.
> This was taken from:The National Office of Animal Health (NOAH) represents the UK animal medicines industry: its aim is to promote the benefits of safe, effective, quality medicines for the health and welfare of all animals.


You don't state what the active ingredients are in PROGRAM PLUS, but I believe it is the same as Sentinel, which means that it has Lufenuron which is used against fleas. The active ingredient that is used for Heartworm is Milbemycin Oxime, which is the same as in Interceptor which has a dosage of Milbemycin Oxime that is five times the minimum amount that has been determined to prevent heartworms; the higher dose is used to control intestinal parasites as well. In the 51-100 lb range that is 23 mg, that is the same as in Sentinel.

Unless you have a flea problem then I would personally choose Interceptor (or the UK equivalent) over Program Plus, as it only contains the Milbemycin Oxime. Lufenuron is of no use to me as I have a tick problem and it does not work against ticks.

I am fortunate to have a vet who isn't annoyed with my endless need to research and discuss every detail about everything with him. He also works with me to make sure the products I get and use aren't bundled with active ingredients that I do not want or need for my kids.


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## jade cat (Sep 22, 2009)

Ingredients on box state one tablet contains; 

Milbemycin oxime 23.00mg Lufenuron 460.00mg Excipients q.s. to 1560.00mg Thats lots of nasty stuff I guess!

Eddy has a bad flea allergy and our dear cat loves to bring Eddy home fresh flea infested mice for supper!!!! ( the cats way of getting rid of the dog me thinks ha ha ). I would love to find something else we could use instead of these tablets, but so far this is the only treatment that he has not vomited back within 15 min. I will try and find what name Interceptor goes by here in the UK.


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## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

jade cat said:


> Ingredients on box state one tablet contains;
> 
> Milbemycin oxime 23.00mg Lufenuron 460.00mg Excipients q.s. to 1560.00mg Thats lots of nasty stuff I guess!
> 
> Eddy has a bad flea allergy and our dear cat loves to bring Eddy home fresh flea infested mice for supper!!!! ( the cats way of getting rid of the dog me thinks ha ha ). I would love to find something else we could use instead of these tablets, but so far this is the only treatment that he has not vomited back within 15 min. I will try and find what name Interceptor goes by here in the UK.


Milbemycin oxime at 23 gr, is a good dose, it isn't harmful to the dog at all.
Lufenuron is the active ingredient for the fleas, I really don't know to much about it and the then Excipents are non-active ingredients that are used as carriers (or like a glue to make the pill) for the active ingredients.
Feline fleas are the worst, I had a Rottie who was also allergic, it was horrible. 
Uff da flea infested mice, that is just nasty, my cat used to bring me the presents in bed, I would awake to dead rodents, I then restricted his access to outside to daytime only


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