# Rubbing out bands :-p



## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

LOL no help, but he looks so cute!


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

Ooooh. Naughty Jasper. Tell him that the more he rubs his bands, the longer he'll be in them! Rubbing topknot is a huge no-no. Does he use his paws to get them off, or does he rub his head against the crate? 

Have you tried wrapping instead of/in addition to banding? The little packets may feel less rubbable than the rows of bands. You might also make sure the first set of bands isn't too tight so that it isn't pulling his hair and making him want to rub. 

Don't feel badly. I was horribly inefficient at everything related to coat, including banding. I would spend all day Saturday brushing out, bathing, and drying, then spend all Sunday banding. I did feel that banding was my ally against mats, so I banded like crazy, all the way down his neck hair.


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## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

LOL thx faerie. 

Feralpudel, It doesn't matter whether they are loose, tight or somewhere in between. He rubs his head with his paw. Then he rubs his head on our bed, his crate, the furniture, the cat... LOL. He also rubs out the wraps. 

The bummer thing is that when loose at the bottom they now knot. Such a pain. I was banding down the neck and back a bit, but with him rubbing out it's easier to try and combat the knots right away.

Anyhow I just did extra bands tonight because we'll lose half by morning LOL.


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

Oooh, this is not good. I can't help you much because fortunately I didn't have this problem. But I heard of people who did, and it caused them to tear their topknot out, too, LOL. You don't want to hear this, but it can take so much longer to finish a dog who has rubbed out his topknot. The hair can break from all the rubbing. Can you use the snood or something so that rubbing against something isn't effective? Does he know that you don't like this? 

How much longer 'til he's the handler's problem, LOL?


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

what about a snood? 

or duct tape (as in duct tape him to his crate so he can't move?)

no, guess not.

lol. 

naughty poodle.

but cute!


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## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

He won't keep the snood on anymore either. Determined little bugger. 

I'm pretty sure he knows it doesn't make me happy LOL. Though getting re-banded all the time can't be a picnic either!

He goes out with the local handler next weekend. Such a tricky stage the little ornery boy is in!


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## vtomblin (Jul 18, 2010)

I parted mine down the middle and connect them all. I kind of looks like a braid. We call it the klingon look. With it flat on the head it won't move around and pull etc. You have to make sure it is a bit loose so as to not have hairs pulling.I think it is more comfortable. I found the dollar store elastics slipped too much. Lainee does the best job of hold without pulling out hair. This is the best picture I could find quickly. Hope that does the trick for you.

http://www.poodleforum.com/members/2016-vtomblin-albums-phoenix-picture2987-best-buddies.html


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## dbrazzil (Nov 10, 2009)

I have had the same problem with my poodles. Maybe I will try the braiding.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Ugh. The story of my life. Delilah is a terrible rubber and scratcher. She has taken HUGE chunks out of her topknot. If you look at this picture, you can see where there is a whole section missing on top of her head.














I really don't know the answer. Snoods are bad because the elastic can break the neck hair. I have not seen a difference between banding and wrapping. As someone mentioned, you might try parting it down the center. Also, bad news. You really should be banding even farther back. Since he is going through the coat change, you are going to start seeing matting along his topline and it is really important that save length and density through his neck area. I would start banding well past his withers if I were you.

As far as speed..... it is simply a matter of practice. I think my handler can have 3 dogs banded and wrapped in the time it takes me to do one.


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

cbrand said:


> Ugh. Also, bad news. You really should be banding even farther back. Since he is going through the coat change, you are going to start seeing matting along his topline and it is really important that save length and density through his neck area. I would start banding well past his withers if I were you.


I agree. The neck is where coat change was the worst for Dexter, but banding helped. And as my handler pointed out, there is no faking neck hair even if you wanted to, so you'd better hang onto it.


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## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

Do you guys have any tips for keeping the hair under control while you band? I use clips and bands, but I still end up battling to keep track of what I'm doing. His hair is so thick and wants to poof up, it's hard to control all of it.

I was doing further down his back for a while. Once he started rubbing out it became easier to just comb out rather than band and re-band. I'll have to start again.

vtomblin, I've tried connecting them all to no avail, it still slips out. How many bands do you use on each tail before connecting to the next?

Carol, It's terrible isn't it? He used to be so good. The scratching and rubbing is driving me crazy!

The elastic on his snood isn't so bad. However, when the dog makes it twist round and round and round... it knots up the hair which totally defeats the purpose .

I've tried explaining to Jasper that he could be outside playing instead of on the grooming table, but he just doesn't listen LOL.


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

Rockporters said:


> Do you guys have any tips for keeping the hair under control while you band? I use clips and bands, but I still end up battling to keep track of what I'm doing. His hair is so thick and wants to poof up, it's hard to control all of it.


Just remember, thick is a good problem to have! I found a rattail comb a really useful tool--the kind with the really long pointy end. I used it to section off the hair and it helped with the problem I think you're describing--that lost in a sea of hair feeling?


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## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

Feralpudel said:


> Just remember, thick is a good problem to have! I found a rattail comb a really useful tool--the kind with the really long pointy end. I used it to section off the hair and it helped with the problem I think you're describing--that lost in a sea of hair feeling?


As I dream of Nair, I keep telling myself that LOL.

Yeah, it's the sea of hair feeling. I'm continually losing the part that I make with the rattail. I try to clip it, but I seem to not be coordinated enough to mange everything all at once. Do you use anything to separate the sections of hair?


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Do you have a banana clip? I part the hair with a knitting needle. Spray the section I will do next with a grooming spray and then clip it. Comb and band the section at hand and then clip it down. Next, section off hair, spray the next section with a grooming spray and then clip it down. Comb and band the section at hand.

Are you working with a head rest?


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## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

I don't have a banana clip, I'll have to get one. The knitting needle is a great idea! I find the end of a rattail isn't quite long enough to keep track of in all that hair.

I'm not using a headrest yet, but I want to get one. I've trained him to lay down, and lay his head down during topknot work. He'll also hold it up and still as a rock if I need. Do you have suggestions on where to find the headrest?


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## vtomblin (Jul 18, 2010)

I only use one band then connect to the next section with one band. When his hair was shorter I had to make the sections smaller. Meaning more elastics. It makes a difference which elastics you use. The $ store ones are really slippery. I've tried them all and the Lainee ones hold the best. I think the key is to not make it tight. Try smaller sections and loosen each section after you put in the elastic. It was usually a couple of hairs pulling that made him rub. I have also found good elastics at a horse store. Parting in the middle reduces the breakage at the first elastic. The middle has alot of tension on it. With the part it also holds the little fly aways better so they can grow. The other thing that was good about connecting it all was it kept the hair out of the sun too. I tried banding and wrapping down his neck and back and found it tedious and not too successful. I parted him down the middle of his back and did the connecting down two rows starting from the top of the neck. Kept the hair safe and was way faster than wrapping.

Clearviewcreations.ca is where I got my head rest. For holding the hair sometimes I just use a big metal comb. The weight holds the next section down well. It gets much easier with length. When I started I wondered how anyone can make sense of the sheep fur! Things will get better.


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## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

vtomblin, I'll have to try the Lainee bands. Thanks for the info on how you do the "braids". I'll try it when I redo everything this weekend.

I'll start shopping for the head rest. He's not crazy about having his front legs groomed, but is an angel when it comes to his topknot and back thankfully.


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