# Opinions please!



## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

I don't think the setter in your dog's mix would change guidance about your dog's dietary needs, as they are both large breed dogs. Unless you know already about specific allergies or sensitivities your puppy has, I think a nutritionally appropriate food for a large breed puppy would be fine. You should consult your vet if you are worried about your puppy thriving though!


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Breed specific food is just a marketing myth. As Oona said, find a food appropriate for large breed puppies, usually marked on the bag.


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## GunnytheIrishdoodle (Oct 25, 2021)

Oona Thank you,

I forgot to mention both his mom and dad were more moyen sized, about 45 pounds. Also we have had our first vet visit, she wasn’t as concerned as me about his weight, they suggested the Purina one Puppy…I wasn’t sure I liked that recipe either. She said she recommends it for all puppies (but of course I think all pups need different things according to breed) am I wrong here? I know the vet should know best but we are in a very small community and I worry they are not the best .


Oonapup said:


> I don't think the setter in your dog's mix would change guidance about your dog's dietary needs, as they are both large breed dogs. Unless you know already about specific allergies or sensitivities your puppy has, I think a nutritionally appropriate food for a large breed puppy would be fine. You should consult your vet if you are worried about your puppy thriving though!


Oona Thank you, 

I forgot to mention both his mom and dad were more moyen sized, about 45 pounds. Also we have had our first vet visit, she wasn’t as concerned as me about his weight, they suggested the Purina one Puppy…I wasn’t sure I liked that recipe either. She said she recommends it for all puppies (but of course I think all pups need different things according to breed) am I wrong here? I know the vet should know best but we are in a very small community and I worry they are not the best .


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## GunnytheIrishdoodle (Oct 25, 2021)

Liz said:


> Breed specific food is just a marketing myth. As Oona said, find a food appropriate for large breed puppies, usually marked on the bag.


Thank you! I wondered about that.


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

GunnytheIrishdoodle said:


> Oona Thank you,
> 
> I forgot to mention both his mom and dad were more moyen sized, about 45 pounds. Also we have had our first vet visit, she wasn’t as concerned as me about his weight, they suggested the Purina one Puppy…I wasn’t sure I liked that recipe either. She said she recommends it for all puppies (but of course I think all pups need different things according to breed) am I wrong here? I know the vet should know best but we are in a very small community and I worry they are not the best .


45 pounds is within normal range for a standard poodle and many other dogs that would fall under "large breed", so I still think large breed puppy kibble is fine. As for the Purina, I'm not informed enough to judge or make comparisons. There are a lot of dog food fads going around (the same as for humans, ha) and I tend toward the more well-established or standard dietary guidelines unless there's some reason your dog needs to avoid an ingredient.

There are lots of options for puppy food, though, so if your puppy likes it and is gaining weight on it, and isn't having tummy troubles, it's probably fine. This thread links to a site with some ratings and comparisons: Puppy diet suggestions

Edited to add: it looks like both the Diamond brand and the Purina are included on the list of "best large breed puppy foods" on that site.


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

GunnytheIrishdoodle said:


> I forgot to mention both his mom and dad were more moyen sized, about 45 pounds.


45lbs is slightly smaller than average for a standard poodle male, it isn't really moyen sized. Poodles are measured by height, but a moyen would probably weigh somewhere under 35lbs. Even though the cut off for large breed food being suggested is usually 50lbs you would probably still want to go with a large breed food given the height that poodle genetics can provide. There's not really a good way to know how a mix is going to grow given that he could deviate based on either breed's range.


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## GunnytheIrishdoodle (Oct 25, 2021)

Thank you! This is super helpful! I wondered if a large breed pup food would be acceptable.The fads are what has me confused, there are so many different options for food and I don’t know which way to turn. For now there are no allergies we know of so I guess it is decision time on the new food 😳 it is comforting to know the diamond is on there though. I don’t feel so guilty having him eat it in till I can decide on one. Thank you very much Oonapup!


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## GunnytheIrishdoodle (Oct 25, 2021)

Mist,
Thank you for this info, I worried that since mom and dad were smaller a large breed might not be the way to go, but this makes sense. Both my other pups are in the 90+ pound range so of coarse 45 seams so small for large breed to me! Lol Thank you!


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

Diamond isn't a horrible food, and lots of dogs do well on it. 

My preferred Purina brand is Pro Plan, more specifically the Sensitive Salmon and Rice formula. They make a puppy version of it.


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## GunnytheIrishdoodle (Oct 25, 2021)

TeamHellhound said:


> Diamond isn't a horrible food, and lots of dogs do well on it.
> 
> My preferred Purina brand is Pro Plan, more specifically the Sensitive Salmon and Rice formula. They make a puppy version of it.


Awesome I’ll check that out, thank you!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Welcome!

Puppy Peggy came to us very sick on Diamond Naturals, which is what her breeder feeds. We ended up transitioning her to Farmina (ancestral grains, large breed puppy formula) and she did great. But all dogs are different. You’ll figure out what works best for yours.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

My guys are currently expressing a preference for Royal Canin above all else. Apparently they scour the Chewy.com web site and decide they want whatever is on backorder. Sigh.


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## Tulsi (Jun 8, 2021)

Irish setter x poodle sounds like a lovely mixture. Pictures would be welcome!


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## GunnytheIrishdoodle (Oct 25, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Welcome!
> 
> Puppy Peggy came to us very sick on Diamond Naturals, which is what her breeder feeds. We ended up transitioning her to Farmina (ancestral grains, large breed puppy formula) and she did great. But all dogs are different. You’ll figure out what works best for yours.


Thank you! I’m going to check this out! I just worry about the diamond because the number one ingredient is chicken byproduct meal followed by corn. This is very helpful, thank you!


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## GunnytheIrishdoodle (Oct 25, 2021)

Tulsi said:


> Irish setter x poodle sounds like a lovely mixture. Pictures would be welcome!










He is definitely due for his first hair cut! 😆


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## Tulsi (Jun 8, 2021)

Awww. I keep Rusty (miniature poodle) short haired. About half an inch all over.


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## Lesleeluvspoodles (Oct 22, 2021)

I would take your vets advise.


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## GunnytheIrishdoodle (Oct 25, 2021)

cowpony said:


> My guys are currently expressing a preference for Royal Canin above all else. Apparently they scour the Chewy.com web site and decide they want whatever is on backorder. Sigh.


🤣 What type of royal canin do you prefer? Thanks!


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## GunnytheIrishdoodle (Oct 25, 2021)

Tulsi said:


> Awww. I keep Rusty (miniature poodle) short haired. About half an inch all over.


I was thinking about keeping his that same style 😁


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Swimming a bit against the current here...


There's a lot of quality foods out there. Brand names are less important than the proper nutritional balance. Animal nutrition science is about on par with human. You want nutritionally balanced food from a company that employs veterinary nutrition specialists (there's a degree for that, DVM first then DACVN or may be others ending in ...CVN) to develop the proper nutritional balance for size, life stage, and special needs.

*What is Large Breed Puppy Food – Puppy Food for Large Breed Dogs | PetMD*
Puppies that are going to grow up to be big dogs are predisposed to developmental orthopedic diseases (DOD) like osteochondritis dissecans and hip and elbow dysplasia. Nutrition, or to be precise, over-nutrition, is an important risk factor of DOD.
www.petmd.com

*Why you shouldn’t judge a pet food by its ingredient list – Clinical Nutrition Service at Cummings School (tufts.edu)*

With the larger breeds you want to avoid growing too quickly by overfeeding and keep the proper full nutritional balance between protein, fat, calcium/phosphorus ratio for appropriate orthopedic growth support, and other nutrients.

You also want to look for foods with the AAFCO label. They are the entity that develop the minimum feed guidelines and work with the FDA in the US.

AFCO considers over 70lb to be "large breed" so their calculations are based on that.
Most dog food companies seem to be choosing 50lb as a conservative number.
*Confused About What to Feed Your Large Breed Puppy? New Rules May Help! – Clinical Nutrition Service at Cummings School (tufts.edu)*


Examples of one brand's large breed vs regular puppy Guaranteed Analysis from the website

Large Breed
Guaranteed Analysis
*Crude Protein Not Less Than 30.00%
Crude Fat Not Less Than 12.00%
Crude Fiber Not More Than 6.00%*
Moisture Not More Than 10.00%
*Calcium Not Less Than 1.10%
Phosphorus Not Less Than 0.80%*
Vitamin A Not Less Than 25,000 IU/kg
Vitamin E Not Less Than 200 IU/kg
Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C)* Not Less Than 100 mg/kg
Omega-6 Fatty Acids* Not Less Than 2.75%
Omega-3 Fatty Acids* Not Less Than 0.75%
*Glucosamine* Not Less Than 750 mg/kg
Chondroitin Sulfate* Not Less Than 250 mg/kg
Taurine* Not Less Than 0.09%*
Total Lactic Acid Microorganisms* Not Less Than 20,000,000 CFU/lb

Large Breed
*Feeding Guidelines*


WEIGHT OF DOG (LBS)WEIGHT OF DOG (KG)CUPS/DAYGRAMS/DAY50 - 6023 - 272¾ - 3319 - 34860 - 7027 - 323 - 3½348 - 40670 - 8032 - 363½ - 3¾406 - 43580 - 9036 - 413¾ - 4¼435 - 49390 -10041 - 454¼ - 4½493 - 522100 - 11045 - 504½ - 5522 - 580110 - 12050 - 555 - 5¼580 - 609120 - 14055 - 645¼ - 5¾609 - 667140 - 16064 - 735¾ - 6½667 - 754160 - 18073 - 826½ - 7754 - 812


*Calorie Content:* *This food contains 3,464 kcal/kg or 402 kcal/cup ME* (metabolizable energy) on an as fed basis.


Regular puppy food feeding guidelines and calorie count. You'll notice that the upper weight expected is 50lbs for regular puppy and total daily calorie count (this total count is assuming that this food is all that is fed daily. If you're offering snacks and/or treats, adjust accordingly).

*"Regular" Puppy*
Guaranteed Analysis
*Crude Protein Not Less Than 32.00%
Crude Fat Not Less Than 18.00%
Crude Fiber Not More Than 5.50%*
Moisture Not More Than 10.00%
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) Not Less Than 0.10%
*Calcium Not Less Than 1.20%
Phosphorus Not Less Than 1.00%*
Vitamin A Not Less Than 25,000 IU/kg
Vitamin E Not Less Than 200 IU/kg
Omega-6 Fatty Acids* Not Less Than 4.00%
Omega-3 Fatty Acids* Not Less Than 1.00%
*Taurine* Not Less Than 0.09%*
Total Lactic Acid Microorganisms* Not Less Than 20,000,000 CFU/lb


WEIGHTWEIGHT6 - 12 WKS6 - 12 WKS4 - 6 MOS4 - 6 MOS7 - 9 MOS7 - 9 MOS10 - 12 MOS10 - 12 MOS*(LBS)**(KG)**(CUPS/DAY)**(GRAMS/DAY)**(CUPS/DAY)**(GRAMS/DAY)**(CUPS/DAY)**(GRAMS/DAY)**(CUPS/DAY)**(GRAMS/DAY))*31.4¾98⅔86½65⅓43521130¼98⅔86½651041⅔2161½1951¼16311301572¼29322601⅔2161¼1632092¾3582½32522601¾22830143¾4883¼4232¾3582⅓30340184⅔60645203½45533905023--4¾6184¼5533½455


*Calorie Content: This food contains 3,770 kcal/kg or 490 kcal/cup ME* (metabolizable energy) on an as fed basis.


Possible concerns re diet associated DCM

Posted by PF member Liz
(10) Canine Dilated Cardiomyopathy Linked to Pulses in Grain-Free Foods | Poodle Forum
Some current info on DCM
Diet-Associated DCM: Research Update – Clinical Nutrition Service at Cummings School (tufts.edu)

This is a good overall resource
*Petfoodology – Clinical Nutrition Service at Cummings School (tufts.edu*)

I've grabbed articles from here in the past but never thought to link to the full resource til PF member TeamHellhound suggested it in another thread. Each article is brief so scroll thru for what interests you.

And, I feed Purina Pro Plan


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## GunnytheIrishdoodle (Oct 25, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> Swimming a bit against the current here...
> 
> 
> There's a lot of quality foods out there. Brand names are less important than the proper nutritional balance. Animal nutrition science is about on par with human. You want nutritionally balanced food from a company that employs veterinary nutrition specialists (there's a degree for that, DVM first then DACVN or may be others ending in ...CVN) to develop the proper nutritional balance for size, life stage, and special needs.
> ...


Rose, 
Thank you so much for all of this info. Do you think he would be better off with a regular food or is the large breed the way to go in your opinion? Thank you! I have been looking at the Purina Pro Plan puppy - sensitive skin and stomach (lamb and oatmeal) and also the Purina Pro Plan development sensitive skin and stomach large breed (salmon and rice). I can’t decide which of the two would be better for him. I just know I like the ingredients of them both 😳 
Thank you again for all the help!


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

GunnytheIrishdoodle said:


> 🤣 What type of royal canin do you prefer? Thanks!


I had to keep my adult dog on the hydrolyzed protein prescription formula for a few months while he recovered from an infection. He and the puppy both enjoy it. However, it's not something you would normally need to feed, and it's rather expensive. Somewhere in all of that I also ended up with a bag of Royal Canin Poodle formula. Again, both dogs enjoy it. I would keep your puppy on a puppy formula for now. The reason my puppy gets adult food is that he will go clean up my adult dog's bowl.


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## GunnytheIrishdoodle (Oct 25, 2021)

cowpony said:


> I had to keep my adult dog on the hydrolyzed protein prescription formula for a few months while he recovered from an infection. He and the puppy both enjoy it. However, it's not something you would normally need to feed, and it's rather expensive. Somewhere in all of that I also ended up with a bag of Royal Canin Poodle formula. Again, both dogs enjoy it. I would keep your puppy on a puppy formula for now. The reason my puppy gets adult food is that he will go clean up my adult dog's bowl.


Ok cool, thank you! I have been looking at the royal canin poodle puppy formula as well, there are too many options!


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

GunnytheIrishdoodle said:


> Rose,
> Thank you so much for all of this info. *Do you think he would be better off with a regular food or is the large breed the way to go *in your opinion? Thank you! I have been looking at the Purina Pro Plan puppy - sensitive skin and stomach (lamb and oatmeal) and also the Purina Pro Plan development sensitive skin and stomach large breed (salmon and rice). I can’t decide which of the two would be better for him. I just know I like the ingredients of them both 😳
> Thank you again for all the help!


We recently had another member with a pup who was looking to be borderline medium/large and in the bit of research I've done, I'm not finding any studies or much mention from vets on this topic. The few mentions at all from pretty reliable sites suggest that it's fine to feed the large breed puppy formula for a dog that's still close to that category and particularly if they're inclined to be athletic. I agree with Oonapup that it should be fine. It might be more important to keep your adult dogs out of the puppy food for their weight management, etc.

Are looking at the sensitive formulas strictly based on the ingredients or because he's had some issues?
If you're looking at the PPP large breed I only see salmon and rice in the sensitive line on their website, but there are two other large breed non-sensitive choices. No reason not to, just wondering.

Picking just one brings up another consideration which is Rotational Feeding. There's some good reasons to consider some variation of this style.
Exposure to several different proteins can help reduce food-related issues
If one is out of stock, you may still have the other available
Your pup gets an even more varied diet.

I started with two different brands, two different proteins, with a smattering of leftovers from our dinners as a topper. My picky eater turned his nose up eventually at one of the proteins so we're down to one until I start a search again for an alternate. The topper protein varies daily so we're still getting a slight benefit, I think.

This may not be practical with three dogs 

Paraphrasing Team Hellhound, ultimately, the food your dog eats happily and thrives on is your best choice.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

GunnytheIrishdoodle said:


> Rose,
> Thank you so much for all of this info. Do you think he would be better off with a regular food or is the large breed the way to go in your opinion? Thank you! I have been looking at the Purina Pro Plan puppy - sensitive skin and stomach (lamb and oatmeal) and also the Purina Pro Plan development sensitive skin and stomach large breed (salmon and rice). I can’t decide which of the two would be better for him. I just know I like the ingredients of them both 😳
> Thank you again for all the help!


I have been feeding Purina for over 50 years and see no reason to change. I have raised quite a few puppies on the puppy formula. Right now my miniature poodle and the Chihuahua are on Pro Plan for small breeds. The Lab is on Purina's weight control food.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

I feed rotational-ish. We use 4ish different foods, with no real rhyme or reason. I do stick to just a few proteins (chicken, beef, and lamb) so we will still have “novel” proteins available if she does pop up with an allergy. I specifically have not given her any fish or seafood at all. I also think breed-specific food is a bit silly in general. 



Rose n Poos said:


> We recently had another member with a pup who was looking to be borderline medium/large and in the bit of research I've done, I'm not finding any studies or much mention from vets on this topic. The few mentions at all from pretty reliable sites suggest that it's fine to feed the large breed puppy formula for a dog that's still close to that category and particularly if they're inclined to be athletic. I agree with Oonapup that it should be fine. It might be more important to keep your adult dogs out of the puppy food for their weight management, etc.
> 
> Are looking at the sensitive formulas strictly based on the ingredients or because he's had some issues?
> If you're looking at the PPP large breed I only see salmon and rice in the sensitive line on their website, but there are two other large breed non-sensitive choices. No reason not to, just wondering.
> ...


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> Swimming a bit against the current here...
> 
> 
> There's a lot of quality foods out there. Brand names are less important than the proper nutritional balance.



^^^ That's why I say that the "best" food is one they do well on, like to eat, and that you can afford to feed.

I like Pro Plan, but my dogs are currently on a brand called Blackwood. 

(Evidently I failed to hit the post reply button when I wrote this comment this morning.)


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## GunnytheIrishdoodle (Oct 25, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> We recently had another member with a pup who was looking to be borderline medium/large and in the bit of research I've done, I'm not finding any studies or much mention from vets on this topic. The few mentions at all from pretty reliable sites suggest that it's fine to feed the large breed puppy formula for a dog that's still close to that category and particularly if they're inclined to be athletic. I agree with Oonapup that it should be fine. It might be more important to keep your adult dogs out of the puppy food for their weight management, etc.
> 
> Are looking at the sensitive formulas strictly based on the ingredients or because he's had some issues?
> If you're looking at the PPP large breed I only see salmon and rice in the sensitive line on their website, but there are two other large breed non-sensitive choices. No reason not to, just wondering.
> ...


Ok thank you, he is very energetic now, so I think I will go for the large breed. No reason for choosing the sensitive other than I like the ingredients better than others. That idea is fantastic! At least with rotation feeding I can get a good idea with what he likes and what he does best on. Thank you! I can’t believe I didn’t think of that.


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## GunnytheIrishdoodle (Oct 25, 2021)

TeamHellhound said:


> ^^^ That's why I say that the "best" food is one they do well on, like to eat, and that you can afford to feed.
> 
> I like Pro Plan, but my dogs are currently on a brand called Blackwood.
> 
> (Evidently I failed to hit the post reply button when I wrote this comment this morning.)


Thank you hellhound! I have a tendency to over complicate things, but this is a much better perspective.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

GunnytheIrishdoodle said:


> At least with rotation feeding I can get a good idea with what he likes and what he does best on.


If he's ever had any GI problems, check with your vet to make sure they don't see problems in trying this.

I purposely chose foods readily available thru big box stores so I would be less dependent on shipping and could most always find the foods wherever we were. (The last couple of years have shown that isn't always going to be the case.) I'd have a plan for where and how you'd store additional food if doing a frequent rotation.

The transition from the old food to one of the new choices should be done over 7-10 days, then let that settle for a bit to make sure it's physically tolerated and eaten readily. That gives a new baseline. Once the new food is accustomed to, start the process again with the next new food. When you get to the end of the second transition you can decide whether you want to mix them together each meal or rotate another way.

I was feeding my boys 3 times a day til about 6m old so I chose two brands, two protein sources and fed one each for two of the meals and mixed them for a third. There's more than a few ways to rotate, so look up rotational feeding and get a feel for the process. One thing, you'll need to keep any dry food bags or containers as airtight as you can so the food doesn't go stale.


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## GunnytheIrishdoodle (Oct 25, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> If he's ever had any GI problems, check with your vet to make sure they don't see problems in trying this.
> 
> I purposely chose foods readily available thru big box stores so I would be less dependent on shipping and could most always find the foods wherever we were. (The last couple of years have shown that isn't always going to be the case.) I'd have a plan for where and how you'd store additional food if doing a frequent rotation.
> 
> ...


Thank you, no GI issues yet but i will check with the vet to see their opinion about this. I usually have to order everything off of chewy.com for my fur babies since we are in such a rural area. There aren’t many stores near us so this is usually our best option. Unfortunately I know what you mean though, chewy has ran out of my Dobermans food before and it was a nightmare! He is highly sensitive to any chicken product so pretty much every other dog food was not an option, we made a special Safeway trip to make meals he could tolerate while we waited.😣 Since then we always have more than we need, it seems to store ok in the gamma vaults we have. But they still go nuts when the fresh bags arrive so maybe not…
Any way thank you for all of this info! I can’t wait to see how it goes 😁


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

I have been feeding Purina products to poodles (all 3 varieties) over the past 50 years. I do so because I think Purina actually tests its products.


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## GunnytheIrishdoodle (Oct 25, 2021)

Johanna said:


> I have been feeding Purina products to poodles (all 3 varieties) over the past 50 years. I do so because I think Purina actually tests its products.


Thank you, I think I’m definitely going with purina!


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## TuttoBene (Apr 23, 2021)

GunnytheIrishdoodle said:


> Oona Thank you,
> 
> I forgot to mention both his mom and dad were more moyen sized, about 45 pounds. Also we have had our first vet visit, she wasn’t as concerned as me about his weight, they suggested the Purina one Puppy…I wasn’t sure I liked that recipe either. She said she recommends it for all puppies (but of course I think all pups need different things according to breed) am I wrong here? I know the vet should know best but we are in a very small community and I worry they are not the best .
> 
> ...


Big fan of Purina Puppy. Our breeder recommended it as well. We are switching our grey hound over to Purina now, as well.


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## Deere (Jun 25, 2021)

GunnytheIrishdoodle said:


> I was thinking about keeping his that same style 😁


I am curious why did you choose this doodle combination also why didn't you choose a Standard Poodle or the Irish Setter both are excellent working dog breeds. I own a Standard Poodle( teenager) and specifically looked for this breed because of the breeds characteristics also I am aware of how much grooming is required. When you get a "doodle" you can't be guaranteed to get either breeds characteristics also why would you deminish the confirmation/standards and the characteristics of the Irish Setter, the Poodle or the breeds that make up any of these "doodle" combinations that have taken decades to develop and strengthen? At the end of the day these "doodles" are still a mutt/Heinz 57 and you are paying prices that you would for a pure bred dog who would have the breeds characteristics.


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