# Raw diet?



## UKpoodle

The rule for raw feeding is 80/10/10, that is 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% offal. (5% of that offal should be liver). 
Adult dogs need feeding around 2-3% of their body weight to maintain current weight, but a puppy will need a bit more then that (between 5% and 8%). This online calculator is very useful Calculate
As for recipes, it depends what you mean, are you planning on adding other things such as veggies and then mincing it all up together? I'm afraid I don't have any recipes as I just feed my two meat, so I follow the 80/10/10 rule (I don't believe dogs need carbs and grains, but that's just my personal preference).
It sounds like you're well on the way with the meats you've been giving him any way, all you need to do is add some offal, things like kidney and spleen and make sure that half of his offal consists of liver. Also bear in mind that heart is classed as meat, not offal.
I can't tell you how much it will cost in your neck of the woods, over here I pay around £50 (approx 80 Canadian dollars) a month to feed two spoos on raw. Your best bet is to try and find a company who can deliver frozen raw meats in bulk, specifically for dogs, but having discussed this topic recently in another post it would seem that this isn't as readily available in the US or Canada as it is in the U.K. Hopefully someone on the forum from your area might be able to help you out with the best place to buy from.
Well done for deciding to go raw, Hugo will definitely thank you for it!


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## Dina

UKpoodle said:


> The rule for raw feeding is 80/10/10, that is 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% offal. (5% of that offal should be liver).
> Adult dogs need feeding around 2-3% of their body weight to maintain current weight, but a puppy will need a bit more then that (between 5% and 8%). This online calculator is very useful Calculate
> As for recipes, it depends what you mean, are you planning on adding other things such as veggies and then mincing it all up together? I'm afraid I don't have any recipes as I just feed my two meat, so I follow the 80/10/10 rule (I don't believe dogs need carbs and grains, but that's just my personal preference).
> It sounds like you're well on the way with the meats you've been giving him any way, all you need to do is add some offal, things like kidney and spleen and make sure that half of his offal consists of liver. Also bear in mind that heart is classed as meat, not offal.
> I can't tell you how much it will cost in your neck of the woods, over here I pay around £50 (approx 80 Canadian dollars) a month to feed two spoos on raw. Your best bet is to try and find a company who can deliver frozen raw meats in bulk, specifically for dogs, but having discussed this topic recently in another post it would seem that this isn't as readily available in the US or Canada as it is in the U.K. Hopefully someone on the forum from your area might be able to help you out with the best place to buy from.
> Well done for deciding to go raw, Hugo will definitely thank you for it!


Thanks!!

So if lets say i were to give him 2 chicken drum stick and wings, some ground beef, a raw egg, and maybe some fruits and veggies and some sort of bone most likely beef necks that would be enough for 1 day? or is that not enough? should i weigh it all out and see if that would be enough?


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## UKpoodle

When you start raw feeding it's always a good idea to weigh the days food out, then after you've been doing it a while you'll probably find you can do it by sight/guesstimate.
I wouldn't bother with the beef bones as well as the chicken, that sounds like a bit too much bone for one day. You don't necessarily need to be spot on with bone percentages every day, some days I might feed more bone and will make sure I don't feed any the following day to compensate. A good way to tell is to keep an eye on their poo, if it's rock hard and grey/white and the dog is really struggling to pass it then it means you're feeding too much bone. (You'll find raw poos a lot smaller and less smelly then kibble poo any way.) It's difficult to be precise, but the following is a good guide to the percentage of bone in various meats:
http://perfectlyrawsome.com/raw-fee...-bone-guide/bone-percentages-in-cuts-of-meat/
Remember you need to add a tiny bit of offal to the meal too. If Hugo isn't keen on it then try serving it either frozen or cooked and cut up into tiny bits, that sometimes helps make it more appealing to fussy dogs.
Eggs are a great thing to add, but if he isn't used to them I'd start off with giving maybe one a week as he adjusts to the new diet, as they are quite rich for their digestion. Tinned sardines are also a nice thing to add now and again, my two love those!


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## oshagcj914

Here's a pretty good link that explains how to switch a dog to raw if you want to do prey model: How to get started feeding a Prey Model Raw Diet - Raw Chat - PMR Articles - articles - Prey Model Raw. Sounds like you're pretty well on you're way, and UKpoodle explained things pretty well. Keep in mind that raw feeding is about balance over time. You don't need to have a perfectly balanced meal each day, as long as you're feeding a good variety of proteins and getting the right ratio of meat/fat, bone, and organ (things like heart and lung are fed as meat, not organ). For example, today Asaah had a turkey neck and some beef. Turkey necks are a lot of bone, so tomorrow she'll get some turkey hearts and maybe boneless venison or something like that. She gets all her organ on Sunda with a duck carcass, duck wings, or a turkey neck...although many dogs can't handle that much organ at once. Cost is really going to depend on your local meat prices. I can feed my Great Dane for about the same or a little less than a mid quality kibble like Taste of the Wild. My cat is super cheap to feed raw because cat food is higher meat content and more expensive, yay savings! You could join a Facebook group for more immediate help. The only one I'm in is called Raw Food Diet for Dogs and Cats, and there's a meat resources by area list in the files if you want to take a look. 

PS: beef neck bones are pretty hard, so I doubt that would be a good edible bone for a spoo. My Dane uses them for recreational chewing and doesn't actually consume much of the bone. Poultry bones, pig feet, pork ribs and riblets and good sources of edible bone. The only no nos are weightbearing bones from large animals (they can break teeth) and oddly shaped, sharp, or cut bones like T bones or pork chop bones.


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## maddogdodge

I found this website extremely helpful in switching my animals to a raw diet  

Every Raw Feeder's Resource for Raw Diets


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## Poodlebeguiled

Oshagcj gave you a link to a forum I used and it was very helpful to me when I began this fresh food feeding. You've been given really good advice and I can't really add anything but I'll tell you where I get some of my foods. Asian super markets are good for some unusual meats and things. Also, I order some stuff from time to time from Hare Today, Gone Tomorrow. It's a store in PA and they carry the kind of tripe I like...whole, un processed and it's terrific, smelly stuff. lol. But soooooo good for them. I don't feed vegetables, fruits or grains unless it's for the fun of it...like a hand-out snack type of thing. But studies show they don't need it and in fact, don't digest or utilize that stuff_ very well. _

I like feeding fresh, unprocessed food that I can be pretty sure isn't tainted. Of course, occasionally we hear about human food being contaminated with something. But over all, I think it's better than commercial food and I know what they're getting, unlike with commercial food, which I don't trust. I will keep a bag of that Nature's Variety on hand for certain situations...like if someone's staying here to take care of my dogs so they don't have to deal with the other. But I don't really think that's so great either. 

Anyhow, once you get going and have some guidance (that forum really helped me) you'll probably see some positive differences. My dogs aren't picky about commercial food that I might feed sometimes. But you should see them when it's real, fresh food. They are ecstatic for their meals. Last night was Jose`'s b-day and they got leg of lamb. lol. Actually, they get that a lot anyhow. I watch for sales when things are about to expire and snatch 'em up for cheap, cut them up, package and freeze. 

Good luck! 

*Leg of lamb*




*Sardines (fresh) once or twice a week, not more. *







In the beginning I tried some bones like rabbit and some other things but found them to be too hard and sharp...scary for my teensy weensy dogs. (scary to me, they didn't mind) lol. So they just eat chicken bones...wings mostly and feet and duck feet. They crush those up just fine. For your dog I'm sure some bigger bones would work but like it was said, no heavy, dense, weight bearing bones of the bigger animals. 


*Happy feeding! *


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## Dina

Thanks everyone!

I am so excited to get started on this, i know he will love it and knowing he is healthy and happy is what everyone wants for there pup. 

I am planning on shopping at some wholesalers and seeing what i can find and maybe some marked down meat at the grocery store this weekend. 

I heard some people give there dogs a whole fish.. is this safe? should i be worried about the bones?? 

We will try it out for this month and see how it goes  

Also from the calculators i used i have gotten multiple answers that he should be eating between 1lb - 1.5lbs/ day. He weighs approx 55lbs 

I am hoping to weigh him this weekend at the vet as well lol 

thanks again everyone.


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## Poodlebeguiled

See the photo of those sardines up yonder? ^ lol. Those are whole, raw fish. My dogs can't eat a whole one because they're tiny dogs so I cut up chunks for them and they eat all the parts of it. I freeze them first for a few weeks just in case there are some parasites. Freezing kills them. (Do not feed Pacific northwest salmon!!! There's a dangerous, deadly parasite found in those sometimes that freezing doesn't kill) Do not feed any fish more than once or twice a week because there's an enzyme (thiaminase) in some species of fish that destroys vit B1. So a little is fine. You can also use fish oil as a supplement for those days you don't feed the fish. I get that through that store I mentioned...Hare today. Fish or fish oil is important in that they need iodine. The bones are easy for dogs to chew and digest...very soft. It's hard to find consistent information on which species of fish contain thiaminase but I stick with sardines and mackerel, mostly sardines. And again...just once or twice a week, not more.


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## Dina

Poodlebeguiled said:


> See the photo of those sardines up yonder? ^ lol. Those are whole, raw fish. My dogs can't eat a whole one because they're tiny dogs so I cut up chunks for them and they eat all the parts of it. I freeze them first for a few weeks just in case there are some parasites. Freezing kills them. (Do not feed Pacific northwest salmon!!! There's a dangerous, deadly parasite found in those sometimes that freezing doesn't kill) Do not feed any fish more than once or twice a week because there's an enzyme (thiaminase) in some species of fish that destroys vit B1. So a little is fine. You can also use fish oil as a supplement for those days you don't feed the fish. I get that through that store I mentioned...Hare today. Fish or fish oil is important in that they need iodine. The bones are easy for dogs to chew and digest...very soft. It's hard to find consistent information on which species of fish contain thiaminase but I stick with sardines and mackerel, mostly sardines. And again...just once or twice a week, not more.


Thanks! I really appreciate all of the info you have provided. 

So on my grocery list i have:
2-3 packs of liver
1 10lb pack of ground beef
1 large pack of chicken drumsticks
1 package of sardines 
24 eggs 
(another type of meat, we will see what they have at the store)
some sort of bones..

I was wondering if beef ribs are safe? What type of bones could i use that are typically found at the grocery store?


Thanks again you all have been very helpful!!


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## mjpa

what a great thread! thanks for starting it.


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## Poodlebeguiled

I recommend before you start... getting on that forum first for a little bit. It is best to start with one protein for a week or so to make sure your dog does all right with it. Liver, you can wait just a little while...not too long, maybe a week. Beef liver is probably more nutritious than chicken liver. Remember, just half of the organ meat should be liver. The other half (5%) should be another kind of organ like kidneys, lungs, pancreas, brain. (this disgusting stuff can be found at those Asian supermarkets if you have any around) But wait just a little bit before starting. Liver can make the stools very loose when the dog isn't accustomed to it. (and even when they are if it's too much) But go on that forum for some really better advice than I can give you. There is an article there describing how to go about getting started. There are a few points I disagree with and one is waiting such a long time to add organ meat. They need that. I forget what else. But one guy I really admire who has a gorgeous Vizsla (looks like he polished that dog with some secret substance, lol)...his name is Street car. (I think...it's been a while since I visited) And there are others I think really know their stuff too. 

Chicken is a good thing to get started on. You might want to hold onto one end of the bone at first until your dog gets it that it needs to be chewed first. Don't be alarmed if he doesn't chew it a whole lot. 3 or 4 chomps is often all that's needed. The digestive juices are mighty powerful and will have that dissolved in no time. 

Grocery store meat often has a lot of sodium in it which is worse for dogs than it is for humans. Unfortunately, the ones that don't come with a solution of "broth" like Foster Farms are quite a bit more expensive. That's in the grocery store. But look around. The stuff at that online store I told you about probably is better. But it's pricey too. On the other hand, I really don't think feeding like this is any more expensive than feeding a premium commercial food. But I really haven't done the math. Not that I could anyhow. :alberteinstein: Having 4 lb, 7 lb and 10 lb dogs doesn't make any difference to me how much food costs. 

So, keep us posted. Go get some more info from that site. :amen:


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## Dina

*Day 2 Raw feeding*

So i got everything I needed to start Hugo on his new meal plan on Saturday. 

I packaged everything into a months worth of food, i went the balanced meal daily over balanced in time. As it just felt less complicated to me haha. 

Hugo has been doing great and really enjoying his meals now. No soft stools or anything like that however he did vomit this morning at 5am. However it looked like toy stuffing that he swallowed was the culprit mixed with small pieces of pea to rice sized bone. 

I was worried he would be picky about the organs but that seems to be his favorite part. He doesn't really enjoy his eggs though.. 

I have proportioned his meals to 2 per day for the next 2 weeks and then once a day after that. Hopefully all goes well  

This month will be our trial month to see if we will continue.

Raw came out to about $55 for the month vs $85 for kibble


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## oshagcj914

Glad to hear he's doing well. Most raw feeders start with one protein at a time and don't start any organs for the first few weeks, both because it allows the dog to adjust and because you can watch for any allergic reactions and know which protein is at fault. Starting with multiples at once means that if there are any reactions you'll have to start over with single protein rotations. Keep a close eye on his stools. If he's puking up bone, you may be feeding too much. If you notice any loose stools or diarrhea, you may need to go to one protein and leave out the organs for a while.


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## UKpoodle

Sounds like Hugo is enjoying his meals and it's nice to hear there's another raw convert! There's nothing better than seeing your dog eating 'proper' food and thriving on it.


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## Red lippy mel

Following you and Hugo with great interest! Only have my gorgeous cat to raw feed-not getting a spoo till end of the year. However my cats overall health has improved beyond my expectations since changing to raw, so I'm definitely going raw with the puppy!!
I'm also finding raw food slightly cheaper than high end kibble-aka "junk food" &#55357;&#56841;


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## JudyD

When I raw fed, I didn't give whole prey, so my dogs got a couple of tablespoons a day of chopped veggies, to provide bulk as a substitute for skin/hair/etc. I didn't count that as nutrition, just fiber.


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## peppersb

I buy all of my meat, eggs and dairy directly from farmers who raise their animals on pasture. It is better for the animals (more humane), better for you and your dog (healthier and tastes better), better for the farmers (family farmers make the decisions rather than big corporations) and better for the environment. Costs a bit more than grocery store meat, but worth it. Also, you can get organs that you wouldn't normally find in the grocery store. One of our favorites is beef heart or chicken/turkey heart. Heart is a muscle meat -- just as good for your dogs as steak, but a lot cheaper. We also like gizzards and liver and an occasional kidney.

To find a farmer near you, and to read more about the benefits of grass-fed meat, see Eat Wild.


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## Dina

It has been now almost 2 weeks since we started on raw. It has been going well except hugo has began losing interest quickly.. :/ unless i am pointing at his dish, holding the meat for him he wont eat it. He wont go to his dish on his own and just eat unfortunately. I am not sure what to do now... and i am pretty sure its a bad idea to leave it out all day. Any suggestions?

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## mjpa

Maybe he's not hungry? Could it be the raw food is keeping him full longer? 

I've read that you can put the food in a plastic ziploc and put it in the fridge, offer again a little later.


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## Poodlebeguiled

Dina said:


> It has been now almost 2 weeks since we started on raw. It has been going well except hugo has began losing interest quickly.. :/ unless i am pointing at his dish, holding the meat for him he wont eat it. He wont go to his dish on his own and just eat unfortunately. I am not sure what to do now... and i am pretty sure its a bad idea to leave it out all day. Any suggestions?
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI G7-L03 using Tapatalk



Try searing it (the meat) just a tad...not much. That can sometimes bring out the flavor and enticing smell.

My dogs inhale their raw food where they'll sometimes leave their canned food when I've fed it...even before starting raw.


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## Dina

mjpa said:


> Maybe he's not hungry? Could it be the raw food is keeping him full longer?
> 
> I've read that you can put the food in a plastic ziploc and put it in the fridge, offer again a little later.


I dont think so, i can tell he is hungry cause he will go over to his dish but wont touch it. He should be eating around 1lb per day and he is eating maybe 1/3 if that if i hand feed him I tried cutting up the larger pieces of meat but he will only eat them if i hand feed them to him. Which is somethibg i definitely don't want him getting into a habit of. I gave him some of his kibble a little while ago and he took a few bites. Hopefully it will pass soon and he will be eating properly. 

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## Dina

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Try searing it (the meat) just a tad...not much. That can sometimes bring out the flavor and enticing smell.
> 
> My dogs inhale their raw food where they'll sometimes leave their canned food when I've fed it...even before starting raw.


The first few days he was gulping it all up. But now on week 2 he just doesn't seem interested. 

I think ill give searing a try 

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## Liz

What have you been feeding? When Mia walks away from her bowl, it's usually because she's tired of that meat (most often bone-in chicken). It's a cue for me to substitute a new meat (turkey necks are a good substitute).

I've heard searing can also help with organs and boneless meats.


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## fjm

If he is around the 8 - 10 month mark he will have finished his major growth phase, and may simply not be very hungry for a while. I would try smaller meals for a week or so, and monitor his weight and condition. Searing lightly can certainly help improve the smell and the texture (Sophy doesn't like the texture of raw offal), or if he is avoiding one particular protein I would skip that for a while.


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## Dina

Liz said:


> What have you been feeding? When Mia walks away from her bowl, it's usually because she's tired of that meat (most often bone-in chicken). It's a cue for me to substitute a new meat (turkey necks are a good substitute).
> 
> I've heard searing can also help with organs and boneless meats.


I have been rotating between beef, chicken and pork every few days 

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## Dina

fjm said:


> If he is around the 8 - 10 month mark he will have finished his major growth phase, and may simply not be very hungry for a while. I would try smaller meals for a week or so, and monitor his weight and condition. Searing lightly can certainly help improve the smell and the texture (Sophy doesn't like the texture of raw offal), or if he is avoiding one particular protein I would skip that for a while.


He is 9 months that could be it. He has however filled in compaired to how he used to be which is a good sign

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## Red lippy mel

I have to make sure my cats raw meals are fresh-so I keep meals in the fridge till serving time. I broke it into two smaller meals a day so it doesn't stink out the house during this summer!
Also really cold meat isn't appetising so many pets will wait till it's room temp before eating. Also my cat has days I can't keep up with how hungry he is...and others where the food sits and sits. 
Like us their appetite varies. 
I don't fuss, they certainly won't starve themselves; I just remove old food at each meal time.
Hope this helps/makes sense!


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## oshagcj914

How much does he weigh, and how much are you feeding? Is he losing any weight? How much bone are you feeding? You could be feeding a bit too much food, especially at his age when the rapid growth is done. Those percentages are guidelines, all dogs have different metabolisms and don't need the same amount. I fed 3 lbs a day to both my Danes. One was 150 lbs and one was 120 lbs. Also, if you're feeding a bit too much bone and he's a little constipated, he won't feel good and won't really want to eat. How are his poops looking? 

Here's what I would do - 1. Take a look at how much you're feeding. 2. Check out poops and make sure he isn't getting too much bone. 3. If he doesn't eat it within 10 minutes, put it back in the fridge until the next meal. I don't really doctor up my dog's meals to get her to eat, she either eats what I give her or she can wait until the next meal and eat it then. Obviously you do this with respect to the dog's age and don't use tough love on a young puppy or unhealthy dog. 

One other thing - how many meals a day are you feeding? Maybe he is ready to go down to fewer meals.


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## Dina

oshagcj914 said:


> How much does he weigh, and how much are you feeding? Is he losing any weight? How much bone are you feeding? You could be feeding a bit too much food, especially at his age when the rapid growth is done. Those percentages are guidelines, all dogs have different metabolisms and don't need the same amount. I fed 3 lbs a day to both my Danes. One was 150 lbs and one was 120 lbs. Also, if you're feeding a bit too much bone and he's a little constipated, he won't feel good and won't really want to eat. How are his poops looking?
> 
> Here's what I would do - 1. Take a look at how much you're feeding. 2. Check out poops and make sure he isn't getting too much bone. 3. If he doesn't eat it within 10 minutes, put it back in the fridge until the next meal. I don't really doctor up my dog's meals to get her to eat, she either eats what I give her or she can wait until the next meal and eat it then. Obviously you do this with respect to the dog's age and don't use tough love on a young puppy or unhealthy dog.
> 
> One other thing - how many meals a day are you feeding? Maybe he is ready to go down to fewer meals.


He weighs 52lbs he is getting 1lb per day approx. He is 9.5 months old. He seems to stay the same weight wise you can feel his ribs when you press a little while petting him. However his back pelvic bones i think that's what they are called are easily felt and do stick out a bit. (Vet says he is heathy and normal just poodle frame) His poops alternate between solid, and occasionally diarrhea. I have been trying to balance it to keep them solid. Not chalky though. 

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## Liz

Is he eating again?


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## Dina

Liz said:


> Is he eating again?


Yes! Today he ate his raw, it took a little bit of coaxing at first but he did eat it all up. He had kibble over the weekend but it seems we are back on track i think he figured out raw is tastier than kibble


Liz said:


> Is he eating again?



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## JenniferinTexas

The FB page Raw Feeding Advice and Support is a wonderful resource. I highly recommend it. They can get you started. From what they say, feeding raw can be cheaper than kibble.


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## Dina

Hi Everyone, 

I thought i would give an update regarding Hugo's Raw Diet.

Things were going well. We began to feeding him a mixture of proteins over 2 months span to where he was eating chicken, beef and pork. 
I believe the pork was causing him to be gassy and we decided to take him off this month to give kibble a try again. (and switch it up a bit) We went with Satori Stride Duck Flavor and he enjoyed it the first few days but yet again got tired of it fast unfortunately. He rarely eats it from his bowl but gladly will work for it with training as well with food dispensing toys ( We have noticed him becoming thinner again, and he finally had filled out on raw, looking forward to going back!!!). That food is really great though and would recommend it to anyone who is looking for a great Canadian Kibble. The gas did go away however the poop cleanup has made an increase. We will be going back to raw next month and removing pork from his diet


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## Liz

Have you considered having Hugo tested for food allergies? I believe Catherine has done it for at least one of her dogs. A friend was having trouble with gas and loose stool and is now trying Zignature Kangaroo Limited Ingredient Formula Grain-Free Dry Dog Food. It seems to be going well.


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## Dina

Hi Liz,

We think its due to the pork as he seems to get gassy only when fed that. he also avoids it too.. We are going to just swap out the pork and see if that makes a difference. We were feeding pork loin (big pack from Costco) and it has a lot of fat on it. I cut a lot of it off but it seems to still bother his tummy. His poops were good and solid but anytime he stretches or is going up the stairs he toots XD and he never did that before haha


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## Liz

Sounds like you've sniffed out the culprit :yuck:


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## Charelliby

*Raw Feeding*

After much research I switched my dogs (various breeds including standard poodle) to a commercial, complete raw diet. The switch was prompted by a seriously ill Cirneco del' Etna whose GI system had been wrecked by inappropriate veterinarian treatment. Getting the balance right in a home made raw diet, between vitamins and minerals, in particular the calcium and phosphorous ratio, can be very difficult and a heavy responsibility to bear. This is why i purchase a complete raw diet from a transparent and reputable company in the UK. I made the switch to raw very quickly for my dogs. The difference in their medical conditions and general health was astounding. My Cirneco survived, against all the odds and continues to live a happy, healthy life. My Dachshund, who had struggled most of his life with severe colitis, despite ongoing, expensive veterinary treatments, lived beyond his 18th Birthday and remained free of colitis. My standard poodle loves his food and has an amazing coat. I would endorse a balanced, complete raw diet on the basis of my experience with my own dogs and that of friends who switched when they saw the difference in my dogs.


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## Dina

Hugo is back on raw and loving it whew :adore:

This months batch includes chicken drumsticks, thighs, chicken liver and meaty bison neck bones (3/4 meat 1/4 bone) and ground beef. Occasional tuna or sardine and any meat i'm cooking with I usually sneak him a few peices while i'm prepping lunch or dinner 

Day 2

No protests... at least not yet :aetsch:


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## kontiki

Dina, I had another friend whose spoo got horribly gassy on pork. 

For some reason it doesn't bother mine, unless... a big unless, I get pork called 'extra tender' from the store. It has up to 12% added solution, which is basically water and chemical salts. Then he gets sick.

I watch the ingredients on packages of meat. Often we think we are just buying meat,without realizing many of them have been altered. This is true of much chicken also. 

There is a huge difference between 'retained' and 'added'.


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