# Grooming nightmare!



## Margo Tanenbaum (May 27, 2020)

My poor spoo--she is 10 months old and my husband lost his job so I was trying to save money by not taking her to the groomer too often. It wound up being nearly 4 months since her last appointment (I was going to take her earlier but then she had her first heat and that added an additional month since I didn't think she could go to the groomer while in heat...). I thought her coat was fine, just very shaggy, since I had been brushing it and didn't notice any tangles. But the groomer said she was all matted and when we picked her up she had shaved everything except her poof on her head and her tail! Even her ears....I am so sad since I think she looks so ugly like that. I know it will grow back but I just needed to vent. Obviously I shouldn't have waited so long to take her in so I am at least partly responsible, but I don't understand how she could have been so matted when I was brushing her out. Is there a difference between matted hair on poodles and tangles in human hair? I was looking for tangles and didn't feel any. Thanks so much for any advice.

The sad thing is I was going to take her to have some pictures done on Sunday and now I have to cancel because she looks too scrawny! I should have left her shaggy for the pictures since she looked cute that way. If I had known they would shave her I would have waited another few days for the grooming appointment!

Best, Margo and Shayna


----------



## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

It is a hard lesson learned by many. You will probably quickly get used to the look and even appreciate the ease of care. It is just a shock when their appearance changes so much. What is your normal grooming routine? What do you brush with? A metal comb is essential to check for mats and it is easy to miss them without doing a comb check.


----------



## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

You must comb, not just brush. You have to get all the way down to the skin, because that is where the mats start to form. One of the first things you learn about grooming poodles is "it's just hair, it will grow back!"


----------



## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

I suggest you find someone who can show you how to brush and comb a poodle so that mats don't form. Here is a brief description:
Teach the dog to lie quietly on his/her side. Part the coat from the back of the skull to the base of the tail right down the spine. If the coat is less than one inch long, use a slicker brush to brush along that part (brush the hair from the skin to the outer edge on the side of the part that is away from the feet. If the hair is more than 1 inch long, you'll need to use a pin brush before using a slicker brush. Spray _lightly _with water or coat conditioner. Then use a greyhound-type comb to comb the hair you just brushed - again, comb from the skin out. Now part off a new, thin layer of hair - no more than 1/2 inch below the original part. Brush and comb that layer. Continue parting, brushing, and combing one layer at a time until you get to the center of the belly and chest. Turn the dog over to the other side and repeat.

It is essential that you work from the skin out. If you don't, mats will form near the skin. 

Never, ever, bathe a poodle who has not been thoroughly combed out. That will "harden" the mats.

Invest in decent tools - do not buy them at big box stores. Amazon and Chewy carry good ones. You'll need a pin brush, a slicker, and a comb. I prefer Safari slickers with coated tips. Chris Cristensen and Mars make good pin brushes ($27 and $17). A greyhound type comb should cost at least $10 to ensure quality. I use Chris Cristensen coat conditioner as a spray.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

You were missing the mats since you were just going through the top layer of coat. In the meantime she was going through coat change along with inefficient grooming. I also use a poodle comb to get deep into the coat and reserve brushes for fluff drying. Moe of us have had this happen than not in all likelihood. If your groomer can help you learn how to line comb you will easily avoid these problems down the road.


----------



## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

Oh wow, I know how your feeling. That really sucks and must have felt like a shock.


----------



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Speaking from experience, it is verrrrry easy to miss mats if you’re inexperienced. You just glide right over them as though they’re not there, and they just keep getting tighter and tighter against the skin. I would focus more on your relief that your girl is comfortable now. Matting can be extremely painful, as can de-matting. It sounds like your groomer did the right thing.


----------



## Porkchop (Sep 2, 2019)

You got some good advice here! This exact situation happens all the time. It’s all a part of learning. 
To answer your question, mats in poodle hair are not the same as tangles in human hair for a couple reasons. One is that the poodle hair doesn’t come off the dog (shed). Instead, the hairs that normally would fall off instead get caught in the hair that’s still attached which causes tangles that soon mat. The mats form from the skin out, unlike human hair which tangles from the ends first. 
Also, dogs have areas of friction where the hair is getting rubbed, think under the collar, behind the ears, under the armpits, etc. Mats form in these areas easily. Also, mats form more quickly the further away you get from the last bath and the hair gets less clean.

Maintaining poodle hair that’s approaching an inch long all over is a lot of work (and your poodle’s hair will grow back to that within a month or so). It’s cute but sooooo much brushing and combing to prevent mats.
your dog probably feels great now that the mats arent pulling on the skin! I totally understand how it’s shocking to see the skinny dog underneath. Your groomer did the kindest thing for your poodle, something that any groomer will do in this situation. Keep working with your groomer, they’ll gladly show you how to properly brush and comb. Expect more shave downs until you get the hang of it.

Also, I’m sorry you’re in a tough spot financially with your husband losing his job. I wish I had another idea where you could save money since grooming is so important for poodles.


----------



## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I’m so sorry. It does seem like coat change may have been happening at the same time that you thought you were properly brushing her hair. when coat change happens, hair mats like crazy and you have to be on top of it.

The comb, and combing down to the skin is the most important tool.


----------



## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Yup! Normal if just brushing. I personally couldn't keep 4 months of hair growth brushed and combed out out unless I was spending more than an hour each day at it. And be happy that a shavedown is a lot cheaper than a dematting which takes a lot of time and isn't fun for the dog.

Regular bathing blow drying can help, and you want to part the hair everywhere with a comb to be sure you can see the skin EVERYWHERE. During coat change (approx 7-14 months) I just shaved most of Annie. I swear I could brush her and 10 min later, she would be tangled again. Urrrggh.

For more cost savings - a lot of people here groom themselves. I do - the basic equipment cost me about the cost of one or two grooming visits, I think all my stuff would cost about the cost of four or 5 grooming visits- I enjoy grooming Annie so invested in more equipment to do fancier clips. Since poodles should be groomed every 4-8 weeks it has saved me a bucket of cash to groom her myself. Perhaps your husband could learn to groom her since he isn't working?


----------



## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

It's so sad when the fluffy puppy coat goes, but the coat change period is just really difficult. At least it's spring, so she's probably enjoying her new beach-ready body.


----------



## curlflooffan (Mar 27, 2020)

I think its much better to have a groomer who just shaves down if there is matting rather than to try to dematt to keep the dog cute. 

My mum has a yorkshire terrier who has something called cotton coat. There is something off genetically and it leaves him with soft nails, very little enamel on his teeth and a very soft textured fur which tangles if you breathe on him. 

Since this was our first high grooming non-shedding dog we didnt realise that there was somethiny wrong with the coat. Just kept brushing and brushing trying to save it. But then what started out as a grooming issue became a behavioural issue. This process was painful and he started to resist and then things just got harder. 

The only solution has been to get him shaved down regularly and make sure that the groomer knows not to try and salvage the coat. Its painful and unnecessary and causes more problems down the line. 

So if your poodle ever does develop matts again for whatever reason. Just let them shave it. 

What you can do is to go over the coat with the groomer before so they can assess whether a shave down is necessary. It would at least give you a warning on what to expect upon pick up.


----------



## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

I feel for you with the matts. I keep Asta's coat very closely shaved and he does look like a skinny dog. With the short cut I don't have to worry that he won't collect debris from running around our fields. And I LOVE the look.


----------



## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

Margo Tanenbaum said:


> My poor spoo--she is 10 months old and my husband lost his job so I was trying to save money by not taking her to the groomer too often. It wound up being nearly 4 months since her last appointment (I was going to take her earlier but then she had her first heat and that added an additional month since I didn't think she could go to the groomer while in heat...). I thought her coat was fine, just very shaggy, since I had been brushing it and didn't notice any tangles. But the groomer said she was all matted and when we picked her up she had shaved everything except her poof on her head and her tail! Even her ears....I am so sad since I think she looks so ugly like that. I know it will grow back but I just needed to vent. Obviously I shouldn't have waited so long to take her in so I am at least partly responsible, but I don't understand how she could have been so matted when I was brushing her out. Is there a difference between matted hair on poodles and tangles in human hair? I was looking for tangles and didn't feel any. Thanks so much for any advice.
> 
> The sad thing is I was going to take her to have some pictures done on Sunday and now I have to cancel because she looks too scrawny! I should have left her shaggy for the pictures since she looked cute that way. If I had known they would shave her I would have waited another few days for the grooming appointment!
> 
> Best, Margo and Shayna


As a former groomer, I can safely say that more than likely your dog absolutely needed to be shaved. Most good groomers do not enjoy shaving dogs nose to toes. Shaving dogs is horribly boring, it takes a long time, it doesn't look good, and it's risky (hematomas, nicks from matts sucking up into the blade, razor burn). Most good groomers pray for a matt-free dog to scissor and make adorable but that's usually not the case. We dream of japanese fusion cuts and show grooms but usually get many matted and/or short clipped dogs. Also dematting dogs is the worse thing in the world, it's feels like borderline animal abuse. HAve you ever accidentally hit a knot in your hair with your comb and shrieked back? Ok now imagine someone holding you down and doing that to you for 15 minutes, nooooooo fun. And it builds distrust and trauma around brushing and being touched, not good. So shaving is 100% the most humane dematting solution.

I will say though where the groomer messed up was not telling you that your dog would be shaved, you should have gotten a warning and probably signed a document that explained the risks of a close shave and matting.

For the future, poodles not only need brushing, they need a deep conditioning, force dry to blow the coat straight (regardless of if ultimately it will be curly or straight at the end), line brushing, and fine tooth combing. You can definitely do this all at home but it takes some pricey tools and a chunk of time so most pet owners keep up with the brushing and combing and then take their pups in every 4-6 weeks where the groomer worries about the rest. Your dog is 10 months old and is also probably experiencing coat change where mats can literally develop overnight. I recommend working with the groomer as the pup's coat grows back to find a manageable length that doesn't cost a ton to upkeep. Do buy the best tools you can though for home, it makes a big difference, and always brush out before baths and condition the coat if you bathe at home. Dry curly hair grabs onto itself without lubrication and forms matts, add coat change to the mix and you have one very knotty dog.


----------



## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

Also if you do want to buy your own equipment (which will def save you cash) I'll let you in on a common groomer secret. We hardly ever brush our dogs 😁

This guy gets a brush probably once a week, if that lol









What we do instead is get them in the tub, shampoo with high quality professional grade good stuff like Chris Christensen, deep condition to loosen up all those pesky tangles, apply a leave in conditioner, and here's the MOST important part, use the force dryer to blow tangles straight and blow loose hair away off the body. By not brushing daily it keeps breakage down to a minimum as well for big beautiful coats. His coat change is very minimal though (but did began early at around 5 months) so you may still need to do some daily brushing for a pup with a tough coat change cycle.

I use:
a Chris Christensen Kool Pup Dryer
CC Clean Start or Spectrum One Shampoo
CC Day to Day Conditioner
CC Gold Series Pin Brush, I only use a slicker for show style fluffing and it's the CC Koral brush
Poodle comb with wide and fine teeth

I swear I'm not sponsored by C.C. lol I just like the products because they work, they've been around for a very long time so I know I'm going to be able to find them when I need them, and I just like things to match lol


----------



## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

Phaz23 said:


> I will say though where the groomer messed up was not telling you that your dog would be shaved, you should have gotten a warning and probably signed a document that explained the risks of a close shave and matting.


When I worked for a vet, the only grooming we did was strip downs. Even with telling people that their dog would have absolutely no hair left after being groomed, I still had someone get mad at me when I thought I had done a pretty decent job (managed to leave a pom on his tail and some fluff on his head and ears), considering it was a completely matted-to-the-skin young Toy Poodle who did his best to bite me the entire time. I offered to give them some grooming lessons for free when his hair started growing out, but they never took me up on it.


----------



## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

TeamHellhound said:


> When I worked for a vet, the only grooming we did was strip downs. Even with telling people that their dog would have absolutely no hair left after being groomed, I still had someone get mad at me when I thought I had done a pretty decent job (managed to leave a pom on his tail and some fluff on his head and ears), considering it was a completely matted-to-the-skin young Toy Poodle who did his best to bite me the entire time. I offered to give them some grooming lessons for free when his hair started growing out, but they never took me up on it.


Yup that's why I said 

"We dream of japanese fusion cuts and show grooms but usually get many matted and/or short clipped dogs."

so many people wanted every hair taken off their dog and it was soooo boring and time consuming lol


----------



## Newport (Jul 16, 2014)

@Phaz23 Thanks for sharing your grooming approach. How often do you bathe him?


----------



## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

Newport said:


> @Phaz23 Thanks for sharing your grooming approach. How often do you bathe him?


Oh pretty much every Friday or Saturday but he really could go 2 weeks and be fine as long as he wasn’t rolling around outside, getting dirty, and tangling his hair up (But of course that’s what he does lol)


----------



## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

This is 1 1/2 weeks with no bath and minimal brushing. He’s a little tangled but its just spider webs that’ll blow right out after a good conditioning.


----------



## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

Omg start taking notes! This is how we get AMAZING poodles. A raising tide raises all ships. I learn so much here everyday.


----------



## Margo Tanenbaum (May 27, 2020)

This is all so helpful....I really appreciate everyone's advice. I know the breeder we got the puppy from does grooming as well. Do you think it would be appropriate to ask her to take some time to show me personally how to do the brushing and combing? It's hard to learn the correct technique from Youtube. I would be willing to pay her for her time. I have been fully vaccinated now and I know she had her first vaccine recently so maybe after she's fully vaccinated. I don't usually use her for grooming because she's quite a ways from our house and I would like someone closer for normal. I realize now that the groomer did the right thing and the best she could under the circumstances. My husband says too many people were admiring her so we needed to alter her identity! LOL. I have been using a pin brush but I will definitely get a comb and some of the other things suggested. Also, she spends a lot of time running around the bushes in our yard and I think it was my fault for not getting all the little leaves and stems out of her every night. At least she will grow back and I can start fresh with brushing her properly and I will definitely take her at a minimum every six weeks to the groomer....lesson learned!!!!


----------



## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Margo Tanenbaum said:


> This is all so helpful....I really appreciate everyone's advice. I know the breeder we got the puppy from does grooming as well. Do you think it would be appropriate to ask her to take some time to show me personally how to do the brushing and combing? It's hard to learn the correct technique from Youtube. I would be willing to pay her for her time. I have been fully vaccinated now and I know she had her first vaccine recently so maybe after she's fully vaccinated. I don't usually use her for grooming because she's quite a ways from our house and I would like someone closer for normal. I realize now that the groomer did the right thing and the best she could under the circumstances. My husband says too many people were admiring her so we needed to alter her identity! LOL. I have been using a pin brush but I will definitely get a comb and some of the other things suggested. Also, she spends a lot of time running around the bushes in our yard and I think it was my fault for not getting all the little leaves and stems out of her every night. At least she will grow back and I can start fresh with brushing her properly and I will definitely take her at a minimum every six weeks to the groomer....lesson learned!!!!


I would have no hesitation about asking your breeder to show you. Good breeders typically are happy to advise with any issues their puppies have even after they've long left the nest. Glad to hear you guys are taking the change with good humor! I find it best to go short for summer anyway. More fun and less worry about mess.


----------



## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

I had only been brushing Elroy (9+ weeks old now) with a coated tip slicker. Thanks to this thread, I broke out the two sized metal poodle comb and gave it a whirl. He's not matted but even so, I could tell that the comb is getting to the skin as compared to brush. He really doesn't mind being combed or brushed, but he does like to mouth the implements!


----------



## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

Margo Tanenbaum said:


> This is all so helpful....I really appreciate everyone's advice. I know the breeder we got the puppy from does grooming as well. Do you think it would be appropriate to ask her to take some time to show me personally how to do the brushing and combing? It's hard to learn the correct technique from Youtube. I would be willing to pay her for her time. I have been fully vaccinated now and I know she had her first vaccine recently so maybe after she's fully vaccinated. I don't usually use her for grooming because she's quite a ways from our house and I would like someone closer for normal. I realize now that the groomer did the right thing and the best she could under the circumstances. My husband says too many people were admiring her so we needed to alter her identity! LOL. I have been using a pin brush but I will definitely get a comb and some of the other things suggested. Also, she spends a lot of time running around the bushes in our yard and I think it was my fault for not getting all the little leaves and stems out of her every night. At least she will grow back and I can start fresh with brushing her properly and I will definitely take her at a minimum every six weeks to the groomer....lesson learned!!!!


She probably would be thrilled to show you! What a wonderful resource to have within driving distance 🙂. As for near by, I would let the groomer know day you would like to learn how to brush more effectively so that they can schedule you during a slow time and show you.


----------



## cNJ (Apr 11, 2020)

for those of you who either have or have groomed lots of dogs, do some dogs just have really curly hair? my former dog, if we were out in the rain, would just get so curly.... I had him groomed frequently because it was just easier to keep him shorter. even in the winter when I thought longer hair was cozy, I thought he was better of with shorter hair and a dog coat- he loved the snow, but he would roll in it and get ice balls(!) so- haircut and dog coat. I could comb and brush but sometimes it just seemed futile in wet weather.


----------



## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

cNJ said:


> for those of you who either have or have groomed lots of dogs, do some dogs just have really curly hair? my former dog, if we were out in the rain, would just get so curly.... I had him groomed frequently because it was just easier to keep him shorter. even in the winter when I thought longer hair was cozy, I thought he was better of with shorter hair and a dog coat- he loved the snow, but he would roll in it and get ice balls(!) so- haircut and dog coat. I could comb and brush but sometimes it just seemed futile in wet weather.


Yes there is a wide variation from very thick wiry to thinner and less wiry.


----------



## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

cNJ said:


> for those of you who either have or have groomed lots of dogs, do some dogs just have really curly hair? my former dog, if we were out in the rain, would just get so curly.... I had him groomed frequently because it was just easier to keep him shorter. even in the winter when I thought longer hair was cozy, I thought he was better of with shorter hair and a dog coat- he loved the snow, but he would roll in it and get ice balls(!) so- haircut and dog coat. I could comb and brush but sometimes it just seemed futile in wet weather.


I'm not sure how many purebred poodles are in your area, but you'll definitely see and feel variation.

Just like how some human girls and boys have wavy, kinda curly, or like super mega afro curly hair.

Attempts seem futile in wet weather, yes, your not alone. A lot of us glanced over the part about poodles, curly hair, and wet weather in the fine print.


----------

