# Teacup Poodle advice



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

A teacup breeder I found seems to be honest and has nice looking puppies.

the mother is 4lbs, height is 7” and father is 3 lbs height is 6”.
both are abt 8 years old. thats her 4th litter.

akc registered. Dna certified.
please let me know your opinions


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Tea cup is not a size by the way in any breed dog it is a gimmick
There are only toy, miniature and Standard poodles.
Any breeder advertising teacup poodles I wouldn't buy from.

The breeder should be doing O.F.A. and CHIC testing for P.R.A,, and Patellas clear the very least
also they be doing something with their dogs, conformation, agility, something besides just breeding them.


----------



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

« Teacup » is a marketing term to sell dogs at a higher price. It is used by unscrupulous people who don’t care about the breed, or are completely ignorant of the breed standard. There is no such thing as a teacup poodle. Very small dogs are more fragile with more health problems and ethical breeders do not purposely breed them.

Stay away from anyone who uses this term to talk about their breeding or dogs. There is a list of ethical breeders on this forum.


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Both of these parents are 8 years old.
Red is father, Chocolate is mother.
father weight 3.5 lbs
mother weight is 4 lbs
akc registered.


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

8 is pushing it for breeding the dam, let alone the other red flags. Not a breeding I would consider getting a puppy from, plus a very small toy could be at risk from your miniature pup, whose play might be too rambunctious.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Steer clear on this for more reasons than I can count.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Hard to tell from a pic like that but combined with heights, I would say those dogs have very poor conformation. They have short stubby little legs. Most likely they carry a mutation called CDDY which causes short legs but also makes them more prone to Intervertebral disk disease, which is a horrible crippling health issue. You want to purchase a dog with correct conformation that is square in shape, with their height at withers equal to their length. Poodles should have long lovely legs, not be short and squat. In addition, these dogs look to have poor coat with thin wispy hair.

This is what a toy poodle should look like.


----------



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

As others have said, these dogs have very poor conformation. This breeder is puposely sacrificing the legs to bring down the weight. That’s basically cruelty. Those dogs would not weigh 3-4 lbs if they had normal legs like they should.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Nope nope nope. Swipe left. 

A fourth litter at age 8 is not something I'd condone for the dam.

I can't tell for sure from the pose, but they do look rather short legged.
Neither teacup nor chocolate are terms which would be used by a reputable poodle breeder. The dam is actually a brown phantom.

Neither a serious show breeder nor a serious color breeder would pair these two dogs. The show breeder would avoid phantom and mismarks, as neither can be shown in AKC. Additionally, a show breeder would strive for good conformation. dogs

A color breeder would not cross brown phantom with red. Since both red and brown phantom are recessive colors, a knowledgeable color breeder would pair red to red and phantom to phantom. The exception is if the outcross will improve the structure of the dogs, which doesn't seem the case here. Even then, the breeder would try to avoid introducing undesirable recessives. Having liver points on a red dog or having apricot pop up in a phantom line two generations later are not ideal.


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Hello I found another male teacup for sale that I want to buy.
Please let me know what you think?

*Father* 










*Mother*










*Male Puppy*


----------



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

You have gotten some very good advice on you other post
Again poodles are sized toy, miniature and standard


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

twyla said:


> You have gotten some very good advice on you other post
> Again poodles are sized toy, miniature and standard


I just thought this one wasnt short legged


----------



## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Teacup = bad idea. Nature designed dogs to be medium or large sized animals. Dogs can only be shrunk a certain amount before the structure and proportions of the animal no longer work. Healthy tiny mammals don't have a dog-like design. They look like rats, mice, shrews, martins, and so forth. They typically have short little legs, very flexible spines, and organs optimally proportioned for their size. Toy poodles are pretty close to the non-viable cutoff point for size. Shrinking them even further to rat size is asking for health problems.


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Any reputable Toy breeders in new york?


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

"Cute" photos do not a healthy puppy make... Not at all sure it is even a poodle - the last three photos are very unlike a poodle pup, and probably of a very young puppy too, while the first looks remarkably like a stuffed toy! You really would do better to concentrate on finding a good breeder who is focussed on producing healthy pups of good temperament, rather than tiny size and fancy photos.


----------



## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Who is the breeder? Do they show their dogs in conformation to prove that that they are well built and have a good temperament? Or do they compete in dog sports like rally or agility to prove they are well built and have a good temperament?

Have the parents had all the health checks recommended by the Poodle Club of America for toy poodles?there should be official records that you can look up on line. Did the breeder look for a male that would be the best mate, would bring strengths where the mother has weaknesses? Was genetic diversity considered with this mating.

There definitely are quality breeders of toy poodles in NY and surrounding states.


----------



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I will recommend Silverbirch they are in Hsmilton NY and Rodells in CT, I got my boy Leonard from Rod Connors


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Skylar said:


> Who is the breeder? Do they show their dogs in conformation to prove that that they are well built and have a good temperament? Or do they compete in dog sports like rally or agility to prove they are well built and have a good temperament?
> 
> Have the parents had all the health checks recommended by the Poodle Club of America for toy poodles?there should be official records that you can look up on line. Did the breeder look for a male that would be the best mate, would bring strengths where the mother has weaknesses? Was genetic diversity considered with this mating.
> 
> There definitely are quality breeders of toy poodles in NY and surrounding states.


I only know 1 breeder.
Do you have a list of good toy poodle Breeders?


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

fjm said:


> "Cute" photos do not a healthy puppy make... Not at all sure it is even a poodle - the last three photos are very unlike a poodle pup, and probably of a very young puppy too, while the first looks remarkably like a stuffed toy! You really would do better to concentrate on finding a good breeder who is focussed on producing healthy pups of good temperament, rather than tiny size and fancy photos.


Totally agree. I thought the same thing. Father looks like a stuffed toy.

There breeders are really disgusting people, full of bs and terrible breeding.

This forum is amazing. 

Breeder asses should be really punished somehow. Every time they do something wrong with these puppies, there should be organization to give them violation.


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Hard to tell from a pic like that but combined with heights, I would say those dogs have very poor conformation. They have short stubby little legs. Most likely they carry a mutation called CDDY which causes short legs but also makes them more prone to Intervertebral disk disease, which is a horrible crippling health issue. You want to purchase a dog with correct conformation that is square in shape, with their height at withers equal to their length. Poodles should have long lovely legs, not be short and squat. In addition, these dogs look to have poor coat with thin wispy hair.
> 
> This is what a toy poodle should look like.
> 
> View attachment 472501


Thank you so much. You gave me such a good information and you saved me bunch of unneeded hassle and idiocy.

This is what breeder replied to me after I asked about short legs.

“ mother has middle legs height and Father is short legs”


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

A teacup breeder I found seems to be honest and has nice looking puppies.

the mother is 4lbs, height is 7” and father is 3 lbs height is 6”.
both are abt 8 years old. thats her 4th litter.

akc registered. Dna certified.
please let me know your opinions


----------



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Tea cup is not a size by the way in any breed dog it is a gimmick
There are only toy, miniature and Standard poodles.
Any breeder advertising teacup poodles I wouldn't buy from.

The breeder should be doing O.F.A. and CHIC testing for P.R.A,, and Patellas clear the very least
also they be doing something with their dogs, conformation, agility, something besides just breeding them.


----------



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

« Teacup » is a marketing term to sell dogs at a higher price. It is used by unscrupulous people who don’t care about the breed, or are completely ignorant of the breed standard. There is no such thing as a teacup poodle. Very small dogs are more fragile with more health problems and ethical breeders do not purposely breed them.

Stay away from anyone who uses this term to talk about their breeding or dogs. There is a list of ethical breeders on this forum.


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Both of these parents are 8 years old.
Red is father, Chocolate is mother.
father weight 3.5 lbs
mother weight is 4 lbs
akc registered.


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

8 is pushing it for breeding the dam, let alone the other red flags. Not a breeding I would consider getting a puppy from, plus a very small toy could be at risk from your miniature pup, whose play might be too rambunctious.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Steer clear on this for more reasons than I can count.


----------



## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Hard to tell from a pic like that but combined with heights, I would say those dogs have very poor conformation. They have short stubby little legs. Most likely they carry a mutation called CDDY which causes short legs but also makes them more prone to Intervertebral disk disease, which is a horrible crippling health issue. You want to purchase a dog with correct conformation that is square in shape, with their height at withers equal to their length. Poodles should have long lovely legs, not be short and squat. In addition, these dogs look to have poor coat with thin wispy hair.

This is what a toy poodle should look like.


----------



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

As others have said, these dogs have very poor conformation. This breeder is puposely sacrificing the legs to bring down the weight. That’s basically cruelty. Those dogs would not weigh 3-4 lbs if they had normal legs like they should.


----------



## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Nope nope nope. Swipe left. 

A fourth litter at age 8 is not something I'd condone for the dam.

I can't tell for sure from the pose, but they do look rather short legged.
Neither teacup nor chocolate are terms which would be used by a reputable poodle breeder. The dam is actually a brown phantom.

Neither a serious show breeder nor a serious color breeder would pair these two dogs. The show breeder would avoid phantom and mismarks, as neither can be shown in AKC. Additionally, a show breeder would strive for good conformation. dogs

A color breeder would not cross brown phantom with red. Since both red and brown phantom are recessive colors, a knowledgeable color breeder would pair red to red and phantom to phantom. The exception is if the outcross will improve the structure of the dogs, which doesn't seem the case here. Even then, the breeder would try to avoid introducing undesirable recessives. Having liver points on a red dog or having apricot pop up in a phantom line two generations later are not ideal.


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Hello I found another male teacup for sale that I want to buy.
Please let me know what you think?

*Father* 










*Mother*










*Male Puppy*


----------



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

You have gotten some very good advice on you other post
Again poodles are sized toy, miniature and standard


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

twyla said:


> You have gotten some very good advice on you other post
> Again poodles are sized toy, miniature and standard


I just thought this one wasnt short legged


----------



## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Teacup = bad idea. Nature designed dogs to be medium or large sized animals. Dogs can only be shrunk a certain amount before the structure and proportions of the animal no longer work. Healthy tiny mammals don't have a dog-like design. They look like rats, mice, shrews, martins, and so forth. They typically have short little legs, very flexible spines, and organs optimally proportioned for their size. Toy poodles are pretty close to the non-viable cutoff point for size. Shrinking them even further to rat size is asking for health problems.


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Any reputable Toy breeders in new york?


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

"Cute" photos do not a healthy puppy make... Not at all sure it is even a poodle - the last three photos are very unlike a poodle pup, and probably of a very young puppy too, while the first looks remarkably like a stuffed toy! You really would do better to concentrate on finding a good breeder who is focussed on producing healthy pups of good temperament, rather than tiny size and fancy photos.


----------



## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Who is the breeder? Do they show their dogs in conformation to prove that that they are well built and have a good temperament? Or do they compete in dog sports like rally or agility to prove they are well built and have a good temperament?

Have the parents had all the health checks recommended by the Poodle Club of America for toy poodles?there should be official records that you can look up on line. Did the breeder look for a male that would be the best mate, would bring strengths where the mother has weaknesses? Was genetic diversity considered with this mating.

There definitely are quality breeders of toy poodles in NY and surrounding states.


----------



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I will recommend Silverbirch they are in Hsmilton NY and Rodells in CT, I got my boy Leonard from Rod Connors


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Skylar said:


> Who is the breeder? Do they show their dogs in conformation to prove that that they are well built and have a good temperament? Or do they compete in dog sports like rally or agility to prove they are well built and have a good temperament?
> 
> Have the parents had all the health checks recommended by the Poodle Club of America for toy poodles?there should be official records that you can look up on line. Did the breeder look for a male that would be the best mate, would bring strengths where the mother has weaknesses? Was genetic diversity considered with this mating.
> 
> There definitely are quality breeders of toy poodles in NY and surrounding states.


I only know 1 breeder.
Do you have a list of good toy poodle Breeders?


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

fjm said:


> "Cute" photos do not a healthy puppy make... Not at all sure it is even a poodle - the last three photos are very unlike a poodle pup, and probably of a very young puppy too, while the first looks remarkably like a stuffed toy! You really would do better to concentrate on finding a good breeder who is focussed on producing healthy pups of good temperament, rather than tiny size and fancy photos.


Totally agree. I thought the same thing. Father looks like a stuffed toy.

There breeders are really disgusting people, full of bs and terrible breeding.

This forum is amazing. 

Breeder asses should be really punished somehow. Every time they do something wrong with these puppies, there should be organization to give them violation.


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Hard to tell from a pic like that but combined with heights, I would say those dogs have very poor conformation. They have short stubby little legs. Most likely they carry a mutation called CDDY which causes short legs but also makes them more prone to Intervertebral disk disease, which is a horrible crippling health issue. You want to purchase a dog with correct conformation that is square in shape, with their height at withers equal to their length. Poodles should have long lovely legs, not be short and squat. In addition, these dogs look to have poor coat with thin wispy hair.
> 
> This is what a toy poodle should look like.
> 
> View attachment 472501


Thank you so much. You gave me such a good information and you saved me bunch of unneeded hassle and idiocy.

This is what breeder replied to me after I asked about short legs.

“ mother has middle legs height and Father is short legs”


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

A teacup breeder I found seems to be honest and has nice looking puppies.

the mother is 4lbs, height is 7” and father is 3 lbs height is 6”.
both are abt 8 years old. thats her 4th litter.

akc registered. Dna certified.
please let me know your opinions


----------



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Tea cup is not a size by the way in any breed dog it is a gimmick
There are only toy, miniature and Standard poodles.
Any breeder advertising teacup poodles I wouldn't buy from.

The breeder should be doing O.F.A. and CHIC testing for P.R.A,, and Patellas clear the very least
also they be doing something with their dogs, conformation, agility, something besides just breeding them.


----------



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

« Teacup » is a marketing term to sell dogs at a higher price. It is used by unscrupulous people who don’t care about the breed, or are completely ignorant of the breed standard. There is no such thing as a teacup poodle. Very small dogs are more fragile with more health problems and ethical breeders do not purposely breed them.

Stay away from anyone who uses this term to talk about their breeding or dogs. There is a list of ethical breeders on this forum.


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Both of these parents are 8 years old.
Red is father, Chocolate is mother.
father weight 3.5 lbs
mother weight is 4 lbs
akc registered.


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

8 is pushing it for breeding the dam, let alone the other red flags. Not a breeding I would consider getting a puppy from, plus a very small toy could be at risk from your miniature pup, whose play might be too rambunctious.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Steer clear on this for more reasons than I can count.


----------



## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Hard to tell from a pic like that but combined with heights, I would say those dogs have very poor conformation. They have short stubby little legs. Most likely they carry a mutation called CDDY which causes short legs but also makes them more prone to Intervertebral disk disease, which is a horrible crippling health issue. You want to purchase a dog with correct conformation that is square in shape, with their height at withers equal to their length. Poodles should have long lovely legs, not be short and squat. In addition, these dogs look to have poor coat with thin wispy hair.

This is what a toy poodle should look like.


----------



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

As others have said, these dogs have very poor conformation. This breeder is puposely sacrificing the legs to bring down the weight. That’s basically cruelty. Those dogs would not weigh 3-4 lbs if they had normal legs like they should.


----------



## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Nope nope nope. Swipe left. 

A fourth litter at age 8 is not something I'd condone for the dam.

I can't tell for sure from the pose, but they do look rather short legged.
Neither teacup nor chocolate are terms which would be used by a reputable poodle breeder. The dam is actually a brown phantom.

Neither a serious show breeder nor a serious color breeder would pair these two dogs. The show breeder would avoid phantom and mismarks, as neither can be shown in AKC. Additionally, a show breeder would strive for good conformation. dogs

A color breeder would not cross brown phantom with red. Since both red and brown phantom are recessive colors, a knowledgeable color breeder would pair red to red and phantom to phantom. The exception is if the outcross will improve the structure of the dogs, which doesn't seem the case here. Even then, the breeder would try to avoid introducing undesirable recessives. Having liver points on a red dog or having apricot pop up in a phantom line two generations later are not ideal.


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Hello I found another male teacup for sale that I want to buy.
Please let me know what you think?

*Father* 










*Mother*










*Male Puppy*


----------



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

You have gotten some very good advice on you other post
Again poodles are sized toy, miniature and standard


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

twyla said:


> You have gotten some very good advice on you other post
> Again poodles are sized toy, miniature and standard


I just thought this one wasnt short legged


----------



## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Teacup = bad idea. Nature designed dogs to be medium or large sized animals. Dogs can only be shrunk a certain amount before the structure and proportions of the animal no longer work. Healthy tiny mammals don't have a dog-like design. They look like rats, mice, shrews, martins, and so forth. They typically have short little legs, very flexible spines, and organs optimally proportioned for their size. Toy poodles are pretty close to the non-viable cutoff point for size. Shrinking them even further to rat size is asking for health problems.


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Any reputable Toy breeders in new york?


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

"Cute" photos do not a healthy puppy make... Not at all sure it is even a poodle - the last three photos are very unlike a poodle pup, and probably of a very young puppy too, while the first looks remarkably like a stuffed toy! You really would do better to concentrate on finding a good breeder who is focussed on producing healthy pups of good temperament, rather than tiny size and fancy photos.


----------



## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Who is the breeder? Do they show their dogs in conformation to prove that that they are well built and have a good temperament? Or do they compete in dog sports like rally or agility to prove they are well built and have a good temperament?

Have the parents had all the health checks recommended by the Poodle Club of America for toy poodles?there should be official records that you can look up on line. Did the breeder look for a male that would be the best mate, would bring strengths where the mother has weaknesses? Was genetic diversity considered with this mating.

There definitely are quality breeders of toy poodles in NY and surrounding states.


----------



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I will recommend Silverbirch they are in Hsmilton NY and Rodells in CT, I got my boy Leonard from Rod Connors


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Skylar said:


> Who is the breeder? Do they show their dogs in conformation to prove that that they are well built and have a good temperament? Or do they compete in dog sports like rally or agility to prove they are well built and have a good temperament?
> 
> Have the parents had all the health checks recommended by the Poodle Club of America for toy poodles?there should be official records that you can look up on line. Did the breeder look for a male that would be the best mate, would bring strengths where the mother has weaknesses? Was genetic diversity considered with this mating.
> 
> There definitely are quality breeders of toy poodles in NY and surrounding states.


I only know 1 breeder.
Do you have a list of good toy poodle Breeders?


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

fjm said:


> "Cute" photos do not a healthy puppy make... Not at all sure it is even a poodle - the last three photos are very unlike a poodle pup, and probably of a very young puppy too, while the first looks remarkably like a stuffed toy! You really would do better to concentrate on finding a good breeder who is focussed on producing healthy pups of good temperament, rather than tiny size and fancy photos.


Totally agree. I thought the same thing. Father looks like a stuffed toy.

There breeders are really disgusting people, full of bs and terrible breeding.

This forum is amazing. 

Breeder asses should be really punished somehow. Every time they do something wrong with these puppies, there should be organization to give them violation.


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Hard to tell from a pic like that but combined with heights, I would say those dogs have very poor conformation. They have short stubby little legs. Most likely they carry a mutation called CDDY which causes short legs but also makes them more prone to Intervertebral disk disease, which is a horrible crippling health issue. You want to purchase a dog with correct conformation that is square in shape, with their height at withers equal to their length. Poodles should have long lovely legs, not be short and squat. In addition, these dogs look to have poor coat with thin wispy hair.
> 
> This is what a toy poodle should look like.
> 
> View attachment 472501


Thank you so much. You gave me such a good information and you saved me bunch of unneeded hassle and idiocy.

This is what breeder replied to me after I asked about short legs.

“ mother has middle legs height and Father is short legs”


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

A teacup breeder I found seems to be honest and has nice looking puppies.

the mother is 4lbs, height is 7” and father is 3 lbs height is 6”.
both are abt 8 years old. thats her 4th litter.

akc registered. Dna certified.
please let me know your opinions


----------



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Tea cup is not a size by the way in any breed dog it is a gimmick
There are only toy, miniature and Standard poodles.
Any breeder advertising teacup poodles I wouldn't buy from.

The breeder should be doing O.F.A. and CHIC testing for P.R.A,, and Patellas clear the very least
also they be doing something with their dogs, conformation, agility, something besides just breeding them.


----------



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

« Teacup » is a marketing term to sell dogs at a higher price. It is used by unscrupulous people who don’t care about the breed, or are completely ignorant of the breed standard. There is no such thing as a teacup poodle. Very small dogs are more fragile with more health problems and ethical breeders do not purposely breed them.

Stay away from anyone who uses this term to talk about their breeding or dogs. There is a list of ethical breeders on this forum.


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Both of these parents are 8 years old.
Red is father, Chocolate is mother.
father weight 3.5 lbs
mother weight is 4 lbs
akc registered.


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

8 is pushing it for breeding the dam, let alone the other red flags. Not a breeding I would consider getting a puppy from, plus a very small toy could be at risk from your miniature pup, whose play might be too rambunctious.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Steer clear on this for more reasons than I can count.


----------



## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Hard to tell from a pic like that but combined with heights, I would say those dogs have very poor conformation. They have short stubby little legs. Most likely they carry a mutation called CDDY which causes short legs but also makes them more prone to Intervertebral disk disease, which is a horrible crippling health issue. You want to purchase a dog with correct conformation that is square in shape, with their height at withers equal to their length. Poodles should have long lovely legs, not be short and squat. In addition, these dogs look to have poor coat with thin wispy hair.

This is what a toy poodle should look like.


----------



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

As others have said, these dogs have very poor conformation. This breeder is puposely sacrificing the legs to bring down the weight. That’s basically cruelty. Those dogs would not weigh 3-4 lbs if they had normal legs like they should.


----------



## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Nope nope nope. Swipe left. 

A fourth litter at age 8 is not something I'd condone for the dam.

I can't tell for sure from the pose, but they do look rather short legged.
Neither teacup nor chocolate are terms which would be used by a reputable poodle breeder. The dam is actually a brown phantom.

Neither a serious show breeder nor a serious color breeder would pair these two dogs. The show breeder would avoid phantom and mismarks, as neither can be shown in AKC. Additionally, a show breeder would strive for good conformation. dogs

A color breeder would not cross brown phantom with red. Since both red and brown phantom are recessive colors, a knowledgeable color breeder would pair red to red and phantom to phantom. The exception is if the outcross will improve the structure of the dogs, which doesn't seem the case here. Even then, the breeder would try to avoid introducing undesirable recessives. Having liver points on a red dog or having apricot pop up in a phantom line two generations later are not ideal.


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Hello I found another male teacup for sale that I want to buy.
Please let me know what you think?

*Father* 










*Mother*










*Male Puppy*


----------



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

You have gotten some very good advice on you other post
Again poodles are sized toy, miniature and standard


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

twyla said:


> You have gotten some very good advice on you other post
> Again poodles are sized toy, miniature and standard


I just thought this one wasnt short legged


----------



## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Teacup = bad idea. Nature designed dogs to be medium or large sized animals. Dogs can only be shrunk a certain amount before the structure and proportions of the animal no longer work. Healthy tiny mammals don't have a dog-like design. They look like rats, mice, shrews, martins, and so forth. They typically have short little legs, very flexible spines, and organs optimally proportioned for their size. Toy poodles are pretty close to the non-viable cutoff point for size. Shrinking them even further to rat size is asking for health problems.


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Any reputable Toy breeders in new york?


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

"Cute" photos do not a healthy puppy make... Not at all sure it is even a poodle - the last three photos are very unlike a poodle pup, and probably of a very young puppy too, while the first looks remarkably like a stuffed toy! You really would do better to concentrate on finding a good breeder who is focussed on producing healthy pups of good temperament, rather than tiny size and fancy photos.


----------



## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Who is the breeder? Do they show their dogs in conformation to prove that that they are well built and have a good temperament? Or do they compete in dog sports like rally or agility to prove they are well built and have a good temperament?

Have the parents had all the health checks recommended by the Poodle Club of America for toy poodles?there should be official records that you can look up on line. Did the breeder look for a male that would be the best mate, would bring strengths where the mother has weaknesses? Was genetic diversity considered with this mating.

There definitely are quality breeders of toy poodles in NY and surrounding states.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I will recommend Silverbirch they are in Hsmilton NY and Rodells in CT, I got my boy Leonard from Rod Connors


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Skylar said:


> Who is the breeder? Do they show their dogs in conformation to prove that that they are well built and have a good temperament? Or do they compete in dog sports like rally or agility to prove they are well built and have a good temperament?
> 
> Have the parents had all the health checks recommended by the Poodle Club of America for toy poodles?there should be official records that you can look up on line. Did the breeder look for a male that would be the best mate, would bring strengths where the mother has weaknesses? Was genetic diversity considered with this mating.
> 
> There definitely are quality breeders of toy poodles in NY and surrounding states.


I only know 1 breeder.
Do you have a list of good toy poodle Breeders?


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

fjm said:


> "Cute" photos do not a healthy puppy make... Not at all sure it is even a poodle - the last three photos are very unlike a poodle pup, and probably of a very young puppy too, while the first looks remarkably like a stuffed toy! You really would do better to concentrate on finding a good breeder who is focussed on producing healthy pups of good temperament, rather than tiny size and fancy photos.


Totally agree. I thought the same thing. Father looks like a stuffed toy.

There breeders are really disgusting people, full of bs and terrible breeding.

This forum is amazing. 

Breeder asses should be really punished somehow. Every time they do something wrong with these puppies, there should be organization to give them violation.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Hard to tell from a pic like that but combined with heights, I would say those dogs have very poor conformation. They have short stubby little legs. Most likely they carry a mutation called CDDY which causes short legs but also makes them more prone to Intervertebral disk disease, which is a horrible crippling health issue. You want to purchase a dog with correct conformation that is square in shape, with their height at withers equal to their length. Poodles should have long lovely legs, not be short and squat. In addition, these dogs look to have poor coat with thin wispy hair.
> 
> This is what a toy poodle should look like.
> 
> View attachment 472501


Thank you so much. You gave me such a good information and you saved me bunch of unneeded hassle and idiocy.

This is what breeder replied to me after I asked about short legs.

“ mother has middle legs height and Father is short legs”


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

A teacup breeder I found seems to be honest and has nice looking puppies.

the mother is 4lbs, height is 7” and father is 3 lbs height is 6”.
both are abt 8 years old. thats her 4th litter.

akc registered. Dna certified.
please let me know your opinions


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Tea cup is not a size by the way in any breed dog it is a gimmick
There are only toy, miniature and Standard poodles.
Any breeder advertising teacup poodles I wouldn't buy from.

The breeder should be doing O.F.A. and CHIC testing for P.R.A,, and Patellas clear the very least
also they be doing something with their dogs, conformation, agility, something besides just breeding them.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

« Teacup » is a marketing term to sell dogs at a higher price. It is used by unscrupulous people who don’t care about the breed, or are completely ignorant of the breed standard. There is no such thing as a teacup poodle. Very small dogs are more fragile with more health problems and ethical breeders do not purposely breed them.

Stay away from anyone who uses this term to talk about their breeding or dogs. There is a list of ethical breeders on this forum.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Both of these parents are 8 years old.
Red is father, Chocolate is mother.
father weight 3.5 lbs
mother weight is 4 lbs
akc registered.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

8 is pushing it for breeding the dam, let alone the other red flags. Not a breeding I would consider getting a puppy from, plus a very small toy could be at risk from your miniature pup, whose play might be too rambunctious.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Steer clear on this for more reasons than I can count.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Hard to tell from a pic like that but combined with heights, I would say those dogs have very poor conformation. They have short stubby little legs. Most likely they carry a mutation called CDDY which causes short legs but also makes them more prone to Intervertebral disk disease, which is a horrible crippling health issue. You want to purchase a dog with correct conformation that is square in shape, with their height at withers equal to their length. Poodles should have long lovely legs, not be short and squat. In addition, these dogs look to have poor coat with thin wispy hair.

This is what a toy poodle should look like.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

As others have said, these dogs have very poor conformation. This breeder is puposely sacrificing the legs to bring down the weight. That’s basically cruelty. Those dogs would not weigh 3-4 lbs if they had normal legs like they should.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Nope nope nope. Swipe left. 

A fourth litter at age 8 is not something I'd condone for the dam.

I can't tell for sure from the pose, but they do look rather short legged.
Neither teacup nor chocolate are terms which would be used by a reputable poodle breeder. The dam is actually a brown phantom.

Neither a serious show breeder nor a serious color breeder would pair these two dogs. The show breeder would avoid phantom and mismarks, as neither can be shown in AKC. Additionally, a show breeder would strive for good conformation. dogs

A color breeder would not cross brown phantom with red. Since both red and brown phantom are recessive colors, a knowledgeable color breeder would pair red to red and phantom to phantom. The exception is if the outcross will improve the structure of the dogs, which doesn't seem the case here. Even then, the breeder would try to avoid introducing undesirable recessives. Having liver points on a red dog or having apricot pop up in a phantom line two generations later are not ideal.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Hello I found another male teacup for sale that I want to buy.
Please let me know what you think?

*Father* 










*Mother*










*Male Puppy*


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

You have gotten some very good advice on you other post
Again poodles are sized toy, miniature and standard


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

twyla said:


> You have gotten some very good advice on you other post
> Again poodles are sized toy, miniature and standard


I just thought this one wasnt short legged


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Teacup = bad idea. Nature designed dogs to be medium or large sized animals. Dogs can only be shrunk a certain amount before the structure and proportions of the animal no longer work. Healthy tiny mammals don't have a dog-like design. They look like rats, mice, shrews, martins, and so forth. They typically have short little legs, very flexible spines, and organs optimally proportioned for their size. Toy poodles are pretty close to the non-viable cutoff point for size. Shrinking them even further to rat size is asking for health problems.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Any reputable Toy breeders in new york?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

"Cute" photos do not a healthy puppy make... Not at all sure it is even a poodle - the last three photos are very unlike a poodle pup, and probably of a very young puppy too, while the first looks remarkably like a stuffed toy! You really would do better to concentrate on finding a good breeder who is focussed on producing healthy pups of good temperament, rather than tiny size and fancy photos.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Who is the breeder? Do they show their dogs in conformation to prove that that they are well built and have a good temperament? Or do they compete in dog sports like rally or agility to prove they are well built and have a good temperament?

Have the parents had all the health checks recommended by the Poodle Club of America for toy poodles?there should be official records that you can look up on line. Did the breeder look for a male that would be the best mate, would bring strengths where the mother has weaknesses? Was genetic diversity considered with this mating.

There definitely are quality breeders of toy poodles in NY and surrounding states.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I will recommend Silverbirch they are in Hsmilton NY and Rodells in CT, I got my boy Leonard from Rod Connors


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Skylar said:


> Who is the breeder? Do they show their dogs in conformation to prove that that they are well built and have a good temperament? Or do they compete in dog sports like rally or agility to prove they are well built and have a good temperament?
> 
> Have the parents had all the health checks recommended by the Poodle Club of America for toy poodles?there should be official records that you can look up on line. Did the breeder look for a male that would be the best mate, would bring strengths where the mother has weaknesses? Was genetic diversity considered with this mating.
> 
> There definitely are quality breeders of toy poodles in NY and surrounding states.


I only know 1 breeder.
Do you have a list of good toy poodle Breeders?


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

fjm said:


> "Cute" photos do not a healthy puppy make... Not at all sure it is even a poodle - the last three photos are very unlike a poodle pup, and probably of a very young puppy too, while the first looks remarkably like a stuffed toy! You really would do better to concentrate on finding a good breeder who is focussed on producing healthy pups of good temperament, rather than tiny size and fancy photos.


Totally agree. I thought the same thing. Father looks like a stuffed toy.

There breeders are really disgusting people, full of bs and terrible breeding.

This forum is amazing. 

Breeder asses should be really punished somehow. Every time they do something wrong with these puppies, there should be organization to give them violation.


----------



## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Hard to tell from a pic like that but combined with heights, I would say those dogs have very poor conformation. They have short stubby little legs. Most likely they carry a mutation called CDDY which causes short legs but also makes them more prone to Intervertebral disk disease, which is a horrible crippling health issue. You want to purchase a dog with correct conformation that is square in shape, with their height at withers equal to their length. Poodles should have long lovely legs, not be short and squat. In addition, these dogs look to have poor coat with thin wispy hair.
> 
> This is what a toy poodle should look like.
> 
> View attachment 472501


Thank you so much. You gave me such a good information and you saved me bunch of unneeded hassle and idiocy.

This is what breeder replied to me after I asked about short legs.

“ mother has middle legs height and Father is short legs”


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