# Mini poodle with Cushing's possible stroke. Any first hand experience?



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

No experience on this gratefully for us, but just wishing you the best for how this goes.


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

j4bs4209333 said:


> ... Cushing's has been suspected by the vet ...


Just in case it's this instead:

http://www.poodleforum.com/32-poodle-food/255578-raw-chicken-linked-paralysis-dogs.html

Otherwise I hope she recovers.


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## j4bs4209333 (Nov 24, 2017)

lily cd re said:


> No experience on this gratefully for us, but just wishing you the best for how this goes.


I'm glad you don't have experience and hope you never do. Thank you for the well wishes.


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## j4bs4209333 (Nov 24, 2017)

Vita said:


> Just in case it's this instead:
> 
> http://www.poodleforum.com/32-poodle-food/255578-raw-chicken-linked-paralysis-dogs.html
> 
> Otherwise I hope she recovers.


Wow that's scary. I don't feed her raw meat but I do feed her boneless skinless chicken breast when I make chicken fingers for us. It gives her the worst diarrhea but I have a hard time saying no. I will bring this up to the vet next visit. I like to think I cook chicken long enough but I don't take the internal temperature so I guess it could be possible. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I just thought you got salmonella from chicken and that was it I've never heard of that. Thanks


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## marialydia (Nov 23, 2013)

My minipoo Hecuba had Cushing's from the time she was 14 and a half until she died at almost 16.

She never had a stroke with the kinds of symptoms you describe. But she did have seizures which were controlled with Keppra, until her last seizure which was severe.

She took trilostane, and had the ACTH screening every few months. Her triglycerides were sky high just before treatment (over 1000 at one point; iirc normal is somewhere south of 200). I home cooked for her for a year and a half, with chicken, rice, veggies, and a small amount of vegetable oil, boosted by a special supplement, BalanceIt. I used to make large batches and freeze about 10 days' worth each time.

Hecuba's quality of life in her last 18 months was very good for almost all of that time, with a fairly rapid decline at the end during which time she became more and more anxious, and ravenously hungry. She was never incontinent except when she had her seizures. 

We never determined whether her tumor was on the pituitary or adrenal gland; what I do remember was at the time of her first seizure, they offered me an MRI on her, which I declined, as they said treatment of a pituitary tumor would be brain surgery, which I thought was absurd for a 14 year old dog; and non-surgical treatment would be the same for either kind of tumor.

Let's hope that with a good treatment plan, you and Sweetie have a lot of good time together.


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## j4bs4209333 (Nov 24, 2017)

marialydia said:


> My minipoo Hecuba had Cushing's from the time she was 14 and a half until she died at almost 16.
> 
> She never had a stroke with the kinds of symptoms you describe. But she did have seizures which were controlled with Keppra, until her last seizure which was severe.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing your story. I was hoping sweetie will be around at 16 but now I'm not so sure. That's awesome that you got 16 years with yours and it was a good quality of life. I'm sure she loved the home cooked food. Sweetie is always ravenous and has been for years. Your mention of triglycerides makes me think I need to ask the vet for a copy of the blood work. I've seen two different vets and the first one didn't even mention a stroke or anything like that. She took blood work and told me she had low iron she was dehydrated kidney values were high and low electrolytes. I know there's one I'm leaving out but I don't remember. She wanted to do an ultrasound thinking there was an issue with the kidneys but I don't want to put her through that if she's not able to recover from this. I don't think this has anything to do with kidneys or electrolytes or any of that and neither does the other vet. She said they can do an MRI or ct scan but it's like $2,000 and like you said brain surgery just doesn't seem like an option if it is a tumor and if it is a stroke and an MRI is not going to fix it so I don't really see the point. She prescribed sweetie prednisone even though you're not supposed to give that to a dog with Cushing's. She said that normally is very helpful in treating strokes and relieving any kind of pressure that could possibly be on the brain. She said the benefits if any would outweigh any risks at this point. Thankfully she doesn't seem to be in any pain and with a real thick rubber mat I put down she's able to get up on her own slowly and makes it to the puppy pads on her own. Keeping my fingers crossed. Again thanks for sharing


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## marialydia (Nov 23, 2013)

Just a quick note: an ultrasound is non-invasive, and I don't think it troubles most dogs at all. An MRI for a dog requires anesthesia, which is a whole other kettle of fish, with its own problems.

Good luck with getting this sorted!


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## j4bs4209333 (Nov 24, 2017)

marialydia said:


> Just a quick note: an ultrasound is non-invasive, and I don't think it troubles most dogs at all. An MRI for a dog requires anesthesia, which is a whole other kettle of fish, with its own problems.
> 
> Good luck with getting this sorted!


I thought it required mild sedation. Maybe I'm mistaken. Thanks for the info. I will check with the vet and ask about any risks.


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## Bevvie (Jun 17, 2017)

Marialydia’s description of Cushings is very good. Like Hecuba, our mpoo (Stewie) had Cushings and also a heart murmur, which became stage 4 during the latter months of his life. Stewie was on trilostane (vetoryl) with good results for about 6 months. Although the pharma literature suggested he would be on that medication for life, we came to discover that it works well ... until it doesn’t. Once it doesn’t, that’s it. In discussions with the pharma vets, we also learned that they do ask vets who administer the drug to report back to the company. In this way, they are able to continue their research. Our vet didn’t submit any reports (as per the pharma) and also administered immunizaton shots when Stewie was doing well with the drug (at 11 years). From there, he went down incredibly fast. I’ve never reconciled myself to the notion that the last immunization round was just too much. 

Physical symptoms of Cushings include consumption of incredible amounts of water and an appetite that just won’t stop. Stewie even ate the bird seed in the backyard that had been scattered on the ground by the birds. Fur loss can also be another symptom. Stewie lost much fur on his back and tail. While on trilostane, his fur grew back thick and beautiful but straighter. A dog with Cushings will also develop a pot-belly appearance. With the medication, Stewie’s pot-belly went away and he reformatted to a normal weight. Muscle wasting during the last throes of the disease when Stewie couldn’t tolerate the medication was horrible. I still get choked up thinking about it and even writing about it here. But, he was a brave dog and was never incontinent in the house during the whole time – except for once (pre-diagnosis) when he was left alone for about 5 hours and simply couldn’t hold back the flood of urine from excessive drinking. 

If Sweetie has any of those physical descriptions, it could be Cushings but in truth, the blood tests are needed to properly diagnose. Also, trilostane works (until it doesn’t) for either pituitary or adrenal. It’s not a simple medication and requires much veterinary monitoring based on blood levels, etc. Since Sweetie is 10 years, and if she does have Cushings, doing expensive tests to determine the source won’t add much benefit. If there is any good news in any of this, from what I understand Cushings is not a painful condition but it is a very hard one to deal with from an emotional perspective. 

I wish you and Sweetie all the best in whatever the final determination is.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I just wanted to wish you the best in finding a good treatment plan for Sweetie, and peace of mind for yourself. Blessings for both of you!


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## FozziesMom (Jun 23, 2010)

I am so sorry to hear about Sweetie. 

As we were being tested for Addison's I talked to my vet about brain tumor as a possible cause for this late onset and her response was the cushings was the usual result of a tumor on the pituitary gland. (that doesn't mean all cases of Cushing's are caused by tumors, but yes, at her age....this is is an awful thing to consider. 

It is not easy to watch your loved pet in such a state (I know because we are in crisis too as we speak, and a GI cancer is on the list of things they've still not eliminated). 

I wish you the best with the time you have left and I tell you to trust yourself and your love for your pet. You will make the right decisions. I am so, so sorry.


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## j4bs4209333 (Nov 24, 2017)

Bevvie said:


> Marialydia?s description of Cushings is very good. Like Hecuba, our mpoo (Stewie) had Cushings and also a heart murmur, which became stage 4 during the latter months of his life. Stewie was on trilostane (vetoryl) with good results for about 6 months. Although the pharma literature suggested he would be on that medication for life, we came to discover that it works well ... until it doesn?t. Once it doesn?t, that?s it. In discussions with the pharma vets, we also learned that they do ask vets who administer the drug to report back to the company. In this way, they are able to continue their research. Our vet didn?t submit any reports (as per the pharma) and also administered immunizaton shots when Stewie was doing well with the drug (at 11 years). From there, he went down incredibly fast. I?ve never reconciled myself to the notion that the last immunization round was just too much.
> 
> Physical symptoms of Cushings include consumption of incredible amounts of water and an appetite that just won?t stop. Stewie even ate the bird seed in the backyard that had been scattered on the ground by the birds. Fur loss can also be another symptom. Stewie lost much fur on his back and tail. While on trilostane, his fur grew back thick and beautiful but straighter. A dog with Cushings will also develop a pot-belly appearance. With the medication, Stewie?s pot-belly went away and he reformatted to a normal weight. Muscle wasting during the last throes of the disease when Stewie couldn?t tolerate the medication was horrible. I still get choked up thinking about it and even writing about it here. But, he was a brave dog and was never incontinent in the house during the whole time ? except for once (pre-diagnosis) when he was left alone for about 5 hours and simply couldn?t hold back the flood of urine from excessive drinking.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry it took so long to respond. I want to say thank you for all the info you shared. Sweetie's symptoms are exactly as you described Stewie's. I was on the fence for a while about whether or not I trusted the original vet and finally decided I needed to go somewhere else. He said the same thing that you said, that at this point due to her age it doesn't matter pituitary or adrenal gland there's no point in doing expensive tests because he wouldn't remove in adrenal tumor anyways because of the risks. He did a specific test for Cushing's and she has it and she also has hypothyroidism. He prescribed the same medication Stewie was prescribed. I definitely listened to your warning and got her shots up-to-date when I brought her for the blood test. I got her the three-year rabies shot and I will never get her immunized again out of fear once she starts the medication. Again thank you so much for sharing your experience.


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## Bevvie (Jun 17, 2017)

Hey Jb4s! Happy to hear again from you with the update on Sweetie. I'm quite certain that once she starts the medication, you will see improvement quite soon. My favourite memory was watching Stewie's fur change into quite a luxurious state. So soft that it would floompf when he trotted.
Your vet sounds very good. Those annoying blood tests are both Sweetie and your best friend for the next while as the dosage is managed. I have heard that some dogs can extend up to 3 years on the meds.
In the meantime, enjoy every day with Sweetie. She's worth every moment!!!


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## j4bs4209333 (Nov 24, 2017)

*Update on Sweetie's neuro problems*

A couple months ago Sweetie started have trouble getting up and had no feeling on her right side. I was thinking it might have been a stroke or possibly a macrotumor from Cushings. I took her to three vets. First one was oblivious and thought she had vestibular issues, second one said probably a stroke and to think about her quality of life, and 3rd tried to tell me she had sore joints, with some sort of neuro issue. The 3rd vet treated her for hypothyroidism and Cushing's and the trilostane made her like a zombie. I know my dog and I know she has something wrong in her brain. I'm a Google freak, I literally Google search everything, so I started researching canine brain tumors, strokes, encephalitis etc. I went back to the 3rd vet and at that point I was convinced it was either a tumor or encephalitis, which in a dog is usually an auto-immune disorder. This guy looked me like I was nuts and talked about joint issues. So after countless hours of more Googling I came across a Youtube video posed by a canine neurologist of a dog named Charlie with encephalitis and the symptoms shown were identical minus seizures. At that point I was convinced she had encephalitis, but the cost of an mri is insane. So after days of mentally arguing with myself I decided I couldn't live with the thought of what if it was treatable and decided to get the mri. I found a place in CT that is much cheaper than any place in the Boston area so she got an mri and a spinal tap. $2800 later she had a diagnosis, obstructive hydrocephalus aka water on the brain. Wtf? The spinal fluid was tested for infectious and fungal causes and it was negative, so apparently in the absence of obvious infections it's said to be auto-immune related. This poor little thing has so many issues and now I wonder if they could be related to an auto-immune issue. I feel like I need a real life vet version of Dr. House. Even though the prognosis is not good we are trying the treatment starting Wednesday. It's a chemo drug at a lower level to wipe out her immune system so it stops attacking her brain. It's the same drug little Charlie in the Youtube video was treated with so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I've researched tons of clinical trials and it seems as though it's the most successful treatment available. Thanks for reading my long rant and please keep Sweetie in your thought/prayers.

Also just want to give this info for anyone in the New England area faced with the outrageous cost of an mri......
Companion MRI aka Vetrinary specialists of CT in West Hartford Ct.
The mri itself is $2150 which includes the exam by the neurologist. The prices on the website are outdated, the $2150 was current last week. They try to tell you they should do an ultrasound first, but they will let you sign a waiver if you can't afford the extra costs. Sweetie had one done in December, so I didn't do it.


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

Medically speaking, that is really amazing. 

Otherwise I'm thinking this has been very worrisome and horrible for you; your love for Sweetie is so pure and touching. I hope her treatment works.


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