# Colour genetics interpretation



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I have found a Spoo I am quite interested in, but am looking at the colour testing and am not sure what the DD's mean. She is BBeeDD. I understand the BB's and the ee's and think the DD's are dilute genes, but does the DD mean it is non dilute. Thanking you for any help.


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

From my understanding DD means the dog is a non-dilute. A Dd is a carrier of the dilute gene and a DD is non-dilute a dd is dilute.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

I think the DD is all smoke and mirrors. Vetgen (the only folks I trust) have said that they don't have a reliable test for a non-fading gene in Poodles.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

DD is the dilute factor and the jury is stillout on that part of the test in poodles anyway !


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

cbrand said:


> I think the DD is all smoke and mirrors. Vetgen (the only folks I trust) have said that they don't have a reliable test for a non-fading gene in Poodles.


I agree with cbrand... take those test results with a pinch of salt.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Thank you very much. I was most worried it might mean brown somewhere back there, I don't hold any value in the non dilute stuff either having a woman at Vetgen tell me there is no test for the graying gene, which can also dilute them even if they have the non dilute and we could indeed rely on it.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

I spoke with Vetgen as well and they have yet to even isolate the red. So the BBeeDD can also produce from Cream to red in the spectrum Better look at a pedigree color chart as well.. If you dont know the lines that is ..


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Thank you Sheryl. We have checked out the colour pedigree and PHR, but that DD just had me puzzled. Glad that mystery is solved and not a worry of brown!!


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

You are welcome


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> Thank you very much. I was most worried it might mean brown somewhere back there


No in a Cream/Apricot/Red dog, the Brown gene looks like Bbee or bbee (that is a Cream with Liver pigment).

This is a good color site:

http://www.poodles-in-scandinavia.com/vetgen.htm


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

That is awesome Cbrand. Thank you for sharing that! We sure do not want brown, and I look forward to hidden black!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Yeah I agree with cbrand the DD is not the graying gene or fading gene.

A blue nose pit bull would have dd and pit bulls don't fade lol


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

The lady that I spoke with at vetgen said that poodles are so complex, that it will be a while before they can really isolate the red gene if ever..
Love the color site That is the chart that is on the vetgen site as well..


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Yes, it sure can get complicated, especially if you are looking at bringing in other colours. The colour chart is an awesome tool! Very helpful!!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> Yeah I agree with cbrand the DD is not the graying gene or fading gene.
> 
> A blue nose pit bull would have dd and pit bulls don't fade lol


I agree too. If there is an extra charge to find out of a dog is dilute or non dilute, I won`t bother. There are too many other factors that can muddy the waters, so finding this out is not helpful at all.


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> Yeah I agree with cbrand the DD is not the graying gene or fading gene.
> 
> A blue nose pit bull would have dd and pit bulls don't fade lol


No they don't fade, but you have to know genetics to understand that dd doesn't not necessarily mean they fade over time. They might be born diluted already (which is the case in pit bulls/ weimereiners/ greyhounds/ dobermans). Remember genes don't function as a separate entity, but it reacts and works against or with other genes.

Does any of the blue nosed pit bulls have black on them?

I bet they never do, cause they carry the dd gene which means all black pigment in their coat is diluted to blue.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

The most intersting part of the whole thing is the fact that this lab DDC will take your money for the DD test and give you a result even though it does not mean crap .. I will be using Vet gen from now on


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

PonkiPoodles said:


> No they don't fade, but you have to know genetics to understand that dd doesn't not necessarily mean they fade over time. They might be born diluted already (which is the case in pit bulls/ weimereiners/ greyhounds/ dobermans). Remember genes don't function as a separate entity, but it reacts and works against or with other genes.
> 
> Does any of the blue nosed pit bulls have black on them?
> 
> I bet they never do, cause they carry the dd gene which means all black pigment in their coat is diluted to blue.


Interesting I would like the answer as well...


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

bigredpoodle said:


> The most intersting part of the whole thing is the fact that this lab DDC will take your money for the DD test and give you a result even though it does not mean crap .. I will be using Vet gen from now on


Yes, it certainly seems to be a money grab!! I guess basically what they are saying is true though. For that paticular test, the dog is showing non dilute. But with other factors involved, that means nothing because they may have the non dilute gene, but could carry the graying gene, for which there is no test.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

PonkiPoodles said:


> No they don't fade, but you have to know genetics to understand that dd doesn't not necessarily mean they fade over time. They might be born diluted already (which is the case in pit bulls/ weimereiners/ greyhounds/ dobermans). Remember genes don't function as a separate entity, but it reacts and works against or with other genes.
> 
> Does any of the blue nosed pit bulls have black on them?
> 
> I bet they never do, cause they carry the dd gene which means all black pigment in their coat is diluted to blue.


That is exactly what I was saying. And no blue nose apbts do not have black on them,it would be impossible.


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## alienz (Jan 2, 2010)

I would like to understand the genetics in dogs too. I use to raies rabbits and really have them down pat. It seems you are buying a red dog right? BBee If I understand the dog genetics if you breed two reds together you should not get any blacks just reds. At least that is how it works in rabbits. When I was breeding red rex I would throw in a black once in a while to deepen color but unfortunately this would give you castors and black tipped reds. Castors are like a wild colored rabbit with much deeper red coloring.


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

I'll just quote cbrand again  "it's not like mixing paint" 
If they ever figure out genetics I would definitely be interested in learning more about it.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

alienz said:


> I would like to understand the genetics in dogs too. I use to raies rabbits and really have them down pat. It seems you are buying a red dog right? BBee If I understand the dog genetics if you breed two reds together you should not get any blacks just reds. At least that is how it works in rabbits. When I was breeding red rex I would throw in a black once in a while to deepen color but unfortunately this would give you castors and black tipped reds. Castors are like a wild colored rabbit with much deeper red coloring.


The general concesous is that breeding black to red will deepen its color I tend to disagree, and feel that this will only produce what is behind the black which can be anything from brown to creme. I have yet to see this work ..So I REALLY appreciate your input ...


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

My understanding of breeding reds to black is that it will deepen the pigmentation, IE you'll have darker black noses etc... not that it would change coat colour what so ever... love to know more about this


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

Nope they think it will deepen the red color .. Nothing to do with the points . If you stay away from brown you will have black points. I know I have been doing it ...


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Actually, the plan would be to darken all of the pigment (points and skin) and improve conformation. Personally, I do not like the look of most reds in a continental. When their bum is clipped short, most times it is so light it just looks awful. This is because the skin is not dark. I think it should be a goal of all red breeders to darken the skin as well as the points.


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