# Dental cleaning wasn't great - having to go back



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I went to the breeder's vet to have Merlin neutered and to have a dental cleaning and microchip inserted at the same time. It was hard to find a clinic to do neutering and cleaning at the same time, I had confidence in the breeder's vet and they were a lot cheaper because I got the breeder's discount, so I went there even though it's 1 hour away.

Well, turns out this vet wasn't so great. There was an administrative mix up, they forgot to tell me they used melting stitches but most of all, Merlin still has bad breath and his teeth are still yellow even though the most part of tartar has been taken care of.

Considering I didn't want to have Merlin go through anesthesia twice as one of the reasons to go there, I am pretty pissed that the job has not done properly. I mean, if he was a Saint-Bernard I wouldn't care as much, but this little doggy is so cuddly and soft and he's always on our lap and having his foul breath in our faces is not the most pleasant thing... 

So I called the vet today and told the secretary about the bad breath and yellow teeth and that I was very disappointed. She talked to the vet and called me back. The vet says Merlin might need antibiotics due to gingivitis. I asked about the teeth and she said he might need " reviewing ". So I have an appointment on thursday and they won't charge me.

I don't know what I'll do if they say he has to go on the operation table again to finish the job. I am hoping a vet tech can do it without anesthetic.

What a bummer.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Oh, no! I hope the situation can be remedied as easily as possible. Our dogs get anesthesia-free teeth cleanings in between dentals--I don't know if they offer that in your area. 

Does Merlin like bully sticks? I've been giving all the dogs more bullies since Maizie gets them, and I've noticed they're really keeping their teeth cleaner and breaths fresher.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I am no expert in dental matters but to do a really good dental cleaning they need to anesthetize the dog. It is an uncomfortable procedure and it is also for the dog's protection. They don't want anything going down the dog's throat: cleaning substances or debris scraped off the teeth.

Perhaps you could get the antibiotics and use toothpaste or a dental spray daily and that would help the odor and you could leave further teeth cleaning for later.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

zooeysmom said:


> Oh, no! I hope the situation can be remedied as easily as possible. Our dogs get anesthesia-free teeth cleanings in between dentals--I don't know if they offer that in your area.
> 
> Does Merlin like bully sticks? I've been giving all the dogs more bullies since Maizie gets them, and I've noticed they're really keeping their teeth cleaner and breaths fresher.


I hope they offer it, I'll ask. Glad to know some clinics do it.

i haven't bought bully sticks yet but I'll check into that. He got a real bone once and some rawhide that I let him chew on and take away before it gets gooey.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

MiniPoo said:


> I am no expert in dental matters but to do a really good dental cleaning they need to anesthetize the dog. It is an uncomfortable procedure and it is also for the dog's protection. They don't want anything going down the dog's throat: cleaning substances or debris scraped off the teeth.
> 
> Perhaps you could get the antibiotics and use toothpaste or a dental spray daily and that would help the odor and you could leave further teeth cleaning for later.


Thanks for the suggestion. I bought some special tooth paste that you rub in the mouth and all but to be honest, he doesn't like it very much. I can brush for about 3-4 seconds on each external side, very little inside and not at all on those hard to reach places, especially in the back. I am not having great success with this.

What kind of special spray, do you have amname I can check out ?

Thanks !


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Would it freak you out too much to let him eat a raw chicken neck or two? Buck's teeth glow in the dark and I see no signs of plaque or tarter.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Mfmst said:


> Would it freak you out too much to let him eat a raw chicken neck or two? Buck's teeth glow in the dark and I see no signs of plaque or tarter.


It kind of grosses me out and I couldn't handle the chicken neck juice cleaning afterwards, even in the crate. I'm a bit hypochondriac and I would just visualize the salmonella crawling up everywhere... I could feed it outside though, but only temporarily since the winter in eastern Canada is harsh.

I'll check at the grocery store if I can see what they look " in person" and if I can handle it.

Can't they choke on these things, though ?


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

You might want to google anesthesia free dental cleaning. Some articles say it does not do a good enough job. It might be better than no cleaning at all but it is not as good as one with anesthesia.

My dogs love CET toothpaste. They lay around me in the bathroom waiting for their turn to have their teeth brushed. You have to get them used to the brushes but they love the toothpaste.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Gotcha Minipoo, I'll check out CET toothpaste !


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CET tarter control toothpaste is really good.
Is it Tropiclean gel that you are using?
If so, let me know and I will tell you about a worrisome experience I just had with that stuff.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Another thought - did the Vet do Dental x-rays? Teaka, despite having clean teeth developed really bad breath just prior to her dental at age ten. I remember the dental tech telling me that as soon as she opened her mouth she could smell that smell of infection. Sure enough, X-rays revealed two infected teeth, one fractured below the gum line, so could never have been seen without X-ray. The teeth were extracted, and the awful smell was gone, never to return.
If they are not able to do dental x-rays, I would not let them have another go at it, I would take him somewhere that can.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Tiny Poodles said:


> CET tarter control toothpaste is really good.
> Is it Tropiclean gel that you are using?
> If so, let me know and I will tell you about a worrisome experience I just had with that stuff.


Yes, that's exactly it !


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Another thought - did the Vet do Dental x-rays? Teaka, despite having clean teeth developed really bad breath just prior to her dental at age ten. I remember the dental tech telling me that as soon as she opened her mouth she could smell that smell of infection. Sure enough, X-rays revealed two infected teeth, one fractured below the gum line, so could never have been seen without X-ray. The teeth were extracted, and the awful smell was gone, never to return.
> If they are not able to do dental x-rays, I would not let them have another go at it, I would take him somewhere that can.


I have no idea but thanks, I'll ask tomorrow. Merlin is not even two years old, so I hope he doesn't have these issues. Boy his breath is bad...


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Dechi said:


> Yes, that's exactly it !



Ok, so recently Teaka my 13 year old had begun to get plaque build-up on two upper molars, one on either side. About a month ago I began using tropiclean, a little dot on each tooth daily (while continuing to brush with CET). I was pretty happy with the results, but I thought it was a little odd, both teeth, in the exact same pattern, turned sparkly clean on the back 2/3, and still plaque covered on the front 1/3. Well I figured I would keep on using it daily until the entire of each tooth was clean. But last week, I go to brush her teeth, and find that there is a big chunk of the clean part of one of the teeth missing!
I don't know if it is a coincidence, but she is already missing more than half her teeth so it is not like she was chewing on anything hard to break it.
Anyhow, now my 13 year old is going to have to have a dental. I can't say for sure if a Tropiclean eroded that tooth, but I sure am not going to use it again!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Wow, that's scary Tiny poodle ! I am only using it occasionnally toilet mprove breath, but it's not really working anyways. I'll be very careful, thanks !


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I would try Leba III spray. My breeder, also in Canada, said her vet recommended and it is great!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

liljaker said:


> I would try Leba III spray. My breeder, also in Canada, said her vet recommended and it is great!


Thanks, I'll have a look ! Who's your breeder ?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

So, we went to the vet today for a dental check-up after his cleaning two weeks ago. I was happy to see that Merlin has gained 0.4 lb, he is now 5.4 lbs. Still too skinny but improving !

This is a very weird clinic by the way. The vet kept coming to the front and answering the lines the receptionist had put on hold for someone else... The poor girl kept trying to keep him From taking the line but it's his business and he's the boss so he did what he wanted to ! You could hear someone from the staff having a personal conversation on the back, very clearly and loud. I guess she was talking to an older kid because she was telling him to " move his ass... "

Anyways, I won't be going back there !

So, the vet said there is no tartar left and that the yellow and brown that I see are stains. He says that some dogs have a more acidic saliva and that causes the staining. He said I had to brush for the bad breath. I bought a dental cleaning stuff that's supposed to help (breathalyzer). It smells really good and the dogs like it, contrary to Tropiclean. I didn't buy the stuff to put in the water for now. 

Because of the way this clinic is managed, the admin screw ups, the weird staff and the boss who doesn't even trust his own employees to answer the phone, well, I don't believe in what he said. I just don't trust him. I never heard of teeth stains and my dogs always had white teeth after cleanings. I mean, it's not like he's drinking coffee...

I'll just leave it at that for now but if the bad breath persists, I'll have a second opinion somewhere else.

On another subject, I had an appointment at my breeder's after the vet to have Merlin's face, feet and but shaved. I drove 35 minutes to get to her house but she wasn't there. I was very disappointed. It set me back more than 1 hour for nothing, and I was so looking forward to him being groomed ! I was like a kid who didn't get his birthday present. Merlin had no reaction to the house whatsoever. We went up the stairs to knock on the door and there were all those little poodles barking like crazy and jumping on the door window but he didn't care. I was surprised but happy about it ! I guess it means we're his family now...


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

That is very disappointing about the grooming - did you call to see what happened? 
I still think bad breath is infection - x-rays needed to see which tooth it is!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Tiny Poodles said:


> That is very disappointing about the grooming - did you call to see what happened?
> I still think bad breath is infection - x-rays needed to see which tooth it is!


No, I didn't call yet. I know she has a cousin that is close to her and terminally ill. Something might have happened to him and she had to leave abruptly. I'll wait a week or so.

You might be right about the infection. He's only 17 months though. I'll think about going to see another vet. Maybe I'll call the vet school to see how much they would charge. Wouldn't he be suffering if he had an infection ?


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Dechi said:


> No, I didn't call yet. I know she has a cousin that is close to her and terminally ill. Something might have happened to him and she had to leave abruptly. I'll wait a week or so.
> 
> 
> 
> You might be right about the infection. He's only 17 months though. I'll think about going to see another vet. Maybe I'll call the vet school to see how much they would charge. Wouldn't he be suffering if he had an infection ?



I agree 17 months is young for an infection, but it could happen if a tooth was cracked.
And no, you would not necessarily see signs of suffering with infection.
Tangee and Teaka's were found with x-ray. After the teeth were removed I noticed that Tangee who had been a big licker stopped doing that, so I suppose that was a sign that I missed.
Their breath was perfect after the teeth were removed.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Was your dog ever given antibiotics? _Some_ antibiotics, such as Tetracycline can cause the teeth to be yellow if given when they're developing. I'm sorry about all your troubles. Hopefully a second opinion will do the trick. Yeah...without anesthesia, they can't get under the teeth, down under the gum line. It doesn't do much good for gingivitis without getting a deep, thorough cleaning and that can not be done without putting them under. Not only is it dangerous for the dog, but it would sure cause a dog to HATE going to the vets...to develop the worst phobia you ever saw if a dog were forced to hold perfectly still while the vet dug under his gums. 

I sure hope this situation gets rectified and maybe an x ray would reveal something. Good luck.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

I just bought the Leba III spray and have been using it on Misha. I have been very careful as it contains alcohol and she has liver problems. I use it about every 3 days. I tried it on Emilio and he started showing signs of pancreatitis so I quit. Might try again to see if it was conincedence. I only use one spray. I think even with using it ever 3 days and just one spray Misha's teeth look better. But they weren't bad to begin with so hard to tell. I think her gums just look better, they looked very slightly inflamed before.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I tell you, the photos they gave me in Timi's dental packet were an eye opener. 1 1/2 years old, brushing her teeth almost every day, they sure looked clean to my eye, but the close-up pictures that they took showed a number of spots of tarter starting.
I think I may be doing dentals more frequently than I was planning....


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Was your dog ever given antibiotics? _Some_ antibiotics, such as Tetracycline can cause the teeth to be yellow if given when they're developing. I'm sorry about all your troubles. Hopefully a second opinion will do the trick. Yeah...without anesthesia, they can't get under the teeth, down under the gum line. It doesn't do much good for gingivitis without getting a deep, thorough cleaning and that can not be done without putting them under. Not only is it dangerous for the dog, but it would sure cause a dog to HATE going to the vets...to develop the worst phobia you ever saw if a dog were forced to hold perfectly still while the vet dug under his gums.
> 
> I sure hope this situation gets rectified and maybe an x ray would reveal something. Good luck.


I don't know but I'll ask. Good point. it would at least explain the yellow teeth. X-ray's are an option too.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

N2Mischief said:


> I just bought the Leba III spray and have been using it on Misha. I have been very careful as it contains alcohol and she has liver problems. I use it about every 3 days. I tried it on Emilio and he started showing signs of pancreatitis so I quit. Might try again to see if it was conincedence. I only use one spray. I think even with using it ever 3 days and just one spray Misha's teeth look better. But they weren't bad to begin with so hard to tell. I think her gums just look better, they looked very slightly inflamed before.


Did she have bad breath before and is it helping for that as well ?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I tell you, the photos they gave me in Timi's dental packet were an eye opener. 1 1/2 years old, brushing her teeth almost every day, they sure looked clean to my eye, but the close-up pictures that they took showed a number of spots of tarter starting.
> I think I may be doing dentals more frequently than I was planning....


Yeah, I hear you, I'm really leaning towards seeing a specialized dental vet. Money is tight right now but I'll find a way in a little while.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Was your dog ever given antibiotics? _Some_ antibiotics, such as Tetracycline can cause the teeth to be yellow if given when they're developing. I'm sorry about all your troubles. Hopefully a second opinion will do the trick. Yeah...without anesthesia, they can't get under the teeth, down under the gum line. It doesn't do much good for gingivitis without getting a deep, thorough cleaning and that can not be done without putting them under. Not only is it dangerous for the dog, but it would sure cause a dog to HATE going to the vets...to develop the worst phobia you ever saw if a dog were forced to hold perfectly still while the vet dug under his gums.
> 
> 
> 
> I sure hope this situation gets rectified and maybe an x ray would reveal something. Good luck.



Someone told me that dogs are born with both sets of teeth already formed, if that is true, then I doubt abx would affect them as they might humans.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I didn't know that, Tiny Poodle !


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Dechi said:


> I didn't know that, Tiny Poodle !



I wish I could find confirmation on that, that is just what one person told me, and they offered this photo for proof - not sure if I can even tell if the baby teeth have already erupted there or not. They said it shows a puppy with both sets of teeth still inside.
But the notes on the X-ray make me think that they were about to pull the baby teeth, so they must have been out already. Confused....


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Her breath is slightly stinky, not like Emilios! It does seem to be helping


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Merlin will be having a dental soon. My groomer will invite me to this group session, where this chinese guy comes to her house and cleans the dog's teeth without anesthesia. He's not a vet but has a lot of experience, so he's sort of a know-it-all kind of guy. He has a calming gift and apparently he manages to do all dogs without any problems, and he does a wonderful job of getting rid of tartar.

I trust the groomer, she gets her dogs done once a year and they have spectacular teeth. She is very protective of her dogs too.

So we'll see. If Merlin panics, I won't let him. I'll be right in the next room and will be able to see what happens. If it works, it's a well spent 50$ !


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Well I'll tell you, I let the dogs' teeth go a bit after I bought this rural property, just because I was distracted, and you can't buy specialized stuff like enzymatic toothpaste and certainly not sprays or rinses in town. (I order it all off Amazon or go to Grande Prairie for big shopping trips.) I hoped that bullies, rmb's and bison ears would do the trick...not even!! Especially for poor Indy who is not a chewer. Maddy (the chewer)'s teeth have always been better than Indy's. Anyway, I decided to really be diligent and got a human style electric toothbrush, a couple of flavours of enzymatic toothpaste and MollyMiui's favorite spray, "Plaqclnz." After a while of doing all that (plus chewies), their teeth look fabulous!! We ran out of Plaqclnz so I'm just brushing and giving chewies now, and the teeth are still improving. I think an electric toothbrush really helps, personally. The poodles go in for booster shots and exams this week, so we'll see! Our vet has been keeping an eye on the teeth too.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I'll maintain it when the tartar is gone, but there is too much right now. He gets some special enzymes everyday for now.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Follow-up : I started brushing his teeth in november, and that got rid of all his gingivitis, but not the tartar. Last saturday, he had his teeth cleaned without anesthesia and he has the whitest teeth now ! The dental worker said he had excellent teeth and gums, without any swelling. i was happy about that.

But, he still has bad breath, although not as bad. I will get him some probiotics in the next month, from the same company that makes " Daisy's Angel eyes "' the canadian equivalent to Angel eyes.

A side note : this product has worked for eyes eye stains. He has no more. I bought the one with tylosin to start with, but I'll switch to the natural one next. After 30 days on half the recommended dose per day, he is now on half the recommended dose every second day. This is a very tiny quantity, so I am not worried about using it for a short while.


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