# Coat Texture



## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Swizzle also has a soft coat as many silver poodles do. It may be your dog has a soft coat as well. Swizzle's still takes a good cut though so it is not really as issue.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

What colors are Dulcie's parents? Lily's father is black, but her mom is white. She has a softish coat. And it is my understanding that white coats are softer and black pups out of white dogs may also have softer coats. Javelin's parents are both black (although he has Mikimoto (white) in his pedigree). Even though he hasn't really started coat change (expecting it any day now), it is already obvious that his coat is denser and I expect it will be coarser once it changes. I still have him long because I love digging my fingers into it, but he may get nekkid any day now.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CT Girl said:


> Swizzle also has a soft coat as many silver poodles do. It may be your dog has a soft coat as well. Swizzle's still takes a good cut though so it is not really as issue.



Really? My breeder's silvers have the quintessential poodle coat - every single one of her silver's that I know of has it.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> What colors are Dulcie's parents? Lily's father is black, but her mom is white. She has a softish coat. And it is my understanding that white coats are softer and black pups out of white dogs may also have softer coats. Javelin's parents are both black (although he has Mikimoto (white) in his pedigree). Even though he hasn't really started coat change (expecting it any day now), it is already obvious that his coat is denser and I expect it will be coarser once it changes. I still have him long because I love digging my fingers into it, but he may get nekkid any day now.



Red/apricot/cream/white, which I think are all the same color in poodles, just less or more fading genes, are known to have the softest coats.
Black and silver, the best.
Being a "blackricot" Timi is somewhere in the middle. Even at two I have hope though, because she has good coat in certain areas and soft coat in others, not like she has a mediocre coat everywhere, so I am hoping that the good coat can overtake other areas!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

nifty said:


> Hi all!
> 
> I've looked up old threads on this topic and I'd like to hear some more on it. Dulcie has a nice thick coat but the texture is very soft and mostly wavy as opposed to curly, except right around her neck and upper chest area.
> 
> ...


Merlin's coat is exactly the same al Dulcie. He will be 2 years on april 11th. His coat has gotten harder to keep, it doesn't mat but it hard to brush without pulling a lot on his skin. 

I suppose he will never have a correct coat.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

It's interesting to read about the variances in coat texture. Dulcie's parents are both blacks. Her mother may be a dark blue, but she is registered black for sure. I think she is the daughter of a champion white - so there is white in the pedigree, although the white who sired Dulcie's mother (if I am correct) was a gorgeous boy, grand champion etc. No doubt he had a correct coat. Dulce's sire is also a grand champion and he carries no white or fading gene.

I am hopeful that it is just a case of slow change and perhaps a bit c=of clearing to a very dark blue, possibly. She has hundreds of white, coarse guard hairs sprinkled all over her body, tail and topknot. These are not obvious from a distance, and she appears a nice deep black. However, when standing next to my friend's SPOO with the dense curly coat, Dulcie's color is less intense, too.

I think Dulcie is beautiful however her coat turns out - she is elegant and dainty and beautiful. I would like to see a bit more curly harshness to her coat because clippering is tough because the soft coat flattens out when I g over it, so it is difficult to get a smooth, even finish. Overall, though, it's not a huge deal. I was just wondering about it and wondering if it is ever possible that coat change can take a lot longer in some poodle lines. To tell the truth, I don't think she ever went through any discernible coat change. There was never the nightmare matting that I was preparing for -- and her coat texture has never really changed much from her younger puppyhood -- except, as I said, for her neck area which did become curlier and coarser.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Iris is a real true inky black and her coat is extremely dense as well as very very soft. Not wiry anywhere. Most of her ancestors were also black and are all from a show dog background. Her litter mate brother, Louie, has the exact same coat color and texture as Iris.

She is really poofy and silly in this picture but you can see how her coat is when "natural" not brushed out, and of course with age her little face has silvered.

She sure looks more doodle than poodle in this photo, but I love it any way.

She also did not matt during coat change and groomers have been able to get a lovely professional groom on her even with the soft coat.


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## AngelAviary (Aug 12, 2014)

Stella has a multi textured coat too. She is much more coarse (harsh) on her neck and back and her legs are still pretty soft. That's one of her "faults". Ive been told its the Blacks and Whites that have the "Poodle coat" to die for! The breeders have been working on them the longest so they have the best coat texture. I know that is something the Parti folks are defiantly working to improve. A lot of Partis don't have the best coat texture but Ive seen a lot that could stand paw to paw with a Black and be just as good!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Viking Queen said:


> Iris is a real true inky black and her coat is extremely dense as well as very very soft. Not wiry anywhere. Most of her ancestors were also black and are all from a show dog background. Her litter mate brother, Louie, has the exact same coat color and texture as Iris.
> 
> She is really poofy and silly in this picture but you can see how her coat is when "natural" not brushed out, and of course with age her little face has silvered.
> 
> ...



It looks to me that Iris has a perfect poodle coat.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

nifty said:


> It's interesting to read about the variances in coat texture. Dulcie's parents are both blacks. Her mother may be a dark blue, but she is registered black for sure. I think she is the daughter of a champion white - so there is white in the pedigree, although the white who sired Dulcie's mother (if I am correct) was a gorgeous boy, grand champion etc. No doubt he had a correct coat. Dulce's sire is also a grand champion and he carries no white or fading gene.
> 
> I am hopeful that it is just a case of slow change and perhaps a bit c=of clearing to a very dark blue, possibly. She has hundreds of white, coarse guard hairs sprinkled all over her body, tail and topknot. These are not obvious from a distance, and she appears a nice deep black. However, when standing next to my friend's SPOO with the dense curly coat, Dulcie's color is less intense, too.
> 
> I think Dulcie is beautiful however her coat turns out - she is elegant and dainty and beautiful. I would like to see a bit more curly harshness to her coat because clippering is tough because the soft coat flattens out when I g over it, so it is difficult to get a smooth, even finish. Overall, though, it's not a huge deal. I was just wondering about it and wondering if it is ever possible that coat change can take a lot longer in some poodle lines. To tell the truth, I don't think she ever went through any discernible coat change. There was never the nightmare matting that I was preparing for -- and her coat texture has never really changed much from her younger puppyhood -- except, as I said, for her neck area which did become curlier and coarser.



This may be a "duh" kind of comment, but I was grateful when a groomer friend said it to me because duh, I had not thought of it, so I will repeat it to you - keep combing the coat straight up as you work. Over and over, keep combing it straight up!
Duh, that helps a lot with Timi! Darn Teaka spoiled me with her perfect coat - I could trim her with a butter knife and she would come out perfect!


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Viking Queen, I remember talking about this with you once before -- and certainly I will be thrilled if Dulcie is as gorgeous as Iris into her golden years! Yes, Dulcie's coat looks exactly like Iris's!


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

I dreaded going through the coat change, but as with Dulcie I can't say I really noticed it to be bad at all. I do brush and comb daily, but still expected to see a noticeable difference. Abbey has a mix of coarse and soft hair but is very curly all over, if I don't blow her dry she's a mass of beautiful curls. She seems to be coarser over her shoulders and over her butt, with the middle of her back being softer.


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## sidewinder (Feb 3, 2016)

My old girl Rita's coat was just as Viking Queen describes Iris' coat. Very soft, very very black, very curly, very dense. It held shape beautifully when blown dry, but got curly again in a day. I never even noticed coat change. Her coat was silky, not cottony, and very shiny. As I recall, it was much the same even as a puppy.

I groomed a silver standard that had been bred on the East coast for awhile. She had a very harsh, wiry coat. Fun to groom, but not so nice as Rita to cuddle!


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## Raven's Mom (Mar 18, 2014)

I've often wondered how Raven's coat compared to other spoos because I have only felt one or two others. She is getting much more blue with each shave down like Poolann's Racer. She is not as light as he is yet but working on it. However, her coat is not the same texture all over. Her neck and down her back are fairly course, but her legs are very soft and although her tail has gotten better, it still doesn't make a nice pouf when trimmed up and combed out properly. She suffers terribly in the heat so you'd expect her coat to be quite dense, but I can easily part it to see the skin so it doesn't seem so to me. Of course I am used to having double coated breeds so maybe that's the difference.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

nifty said:


> Viking Queen, I remember talking about this with you once before -- and certainly I will be thrilled if Dulcie is as gorgeous as Iris into her golden years! Yes, Dulcie's coat looks exactly like Iris's!


Awwww, that's the kindest thing to say. Thank you. VQ


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> It looks to me that Iris has a perfect poodle coat.


:angel: It was always perfect for me. Her groomer has always said that in 35 years of grooming dogs Iris has the most luxurious coat she has ever seen. She has 135 poodle clients currently, of course some are Minis and Toys. 

I just love the softness and the pretty little waves in her hair. A lady once came up to us and kept going on and on about the "crimp" in her hair.....finally I asked if she was an Alpaca person and she was! We have a lot of alpaca farms here and they are prized for their soft fleece with a lovely "crimp". It was hilarious!

VQ


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

sidewinder said:


> My old girl Rita's coat was just as Viking Queen describes Iris' coat. Very soft, very very black, very curly, very dense. It held shape beautifully when blown dry, but got curly again in a day. I never even noticed coat change. Her coat was silky, not cottony, and very shiny. As I recall, it was much the same even as a puppy.
> 
> I groomed a silver standard that had been bred on the East coast for awhile. She had a very harsh, wiry coat. Fun to groom, but not so nice as Rita to cuddle!


Your Rita sounds just lovely and like her coat was, indeed, like Iris'. I always know when Iris needs a bath as she loses the shine in her coat...otherwise it's hard to tell on a black dog. It gleams in the sun when clean.

Thank you for sharing Rita memories with us. She sounds lovely.

VQ


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## seminolewind (Mar 11, 2016)

Viking Queen said:


> Iris is a real true inky black and her coat is extremely dense as well as very very soft. Not wiry anywhere. Most of her ancestors were also black and are all from a show dog background. Her litter mate brother, Louie, has the exact same coat color and texture as Iris.
> 
> She is really poofy and silly in this picture but you can see how her coat is when "natural" not brushed out, and of course with age her little face has silvered.
> 
> ...


OMG, Iris is beautiful! I love her coat like that!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Really? My breeder's silvers have the quintessential poodle coat - every single one of her silver's that I know of has it.


I have been told by show groomers and breeders that blacks and whites have superior coats and all other color poodles hair are, and this is a direct quote, "crap". Keep in mind this is from these comments are from people who show poodles and spend untold hours fussing over perfect poodle hair. Swizzle's parents are champions as are many in his line but his hair is definitely not as stiff as white or blacks. It is not as "craptastic" as one show groomer told me silvers can be but not optimum. On the plus side he is a pleasure to pet, his coat holds a clip well and he rarely gets matts.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Thanks for the replies everyone! I am still wondering, though, does anyone have any experience with continued coat texture changing past age 2? A neighbor of mine who has a beautiful blue boy said that his coat was exactly like Dulcie's when he was her age - but now at about age 10, he has a very harsh curly coat. The difference in texture between the two dogs is like night and day - if I was blindfolded, I would not know they were the same breed.

So, I would love to hear from other people about very late or gradual changes in coat texture. Is the coat change between 9-18 months it? Adult coat established and stays the same then for ht lifetime of the dog? Or are there cases where poodles can have a more gradual change and in fact have a very different coat texture at 5 years old, for instance, than they had at age 2?


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CT Girl said:


> I have been told by show groomers and breeders that blacks and whites have superior coats and all other color poodles hair are, and this is a direct quote, "crap". Keep in mind this is from these comments are from people who show poodles and spend untold hours fussing over perfect poodle hair. Swizzle's parents are champions as are many in his line but his hair is definitely not as stiff as white or blacks. It is not as "craptastic" as one show groomer told me silvers can be but not optimum. On the plus side he is a pleasure to pet, his coat holds a clip well and he rarely gets matts.



I guess that it depends upon the lines - from my breeder her Silvers by far have the best coats, Black a close second, apricot/cream/white third (still way better than a lot of them that you see, but amongst hers they take last place). So Timi is a mix between 2nd and 3rd place in her lines - still waiting to see which one wins lol! I think that her coat would probably be fine in the hands of a pro, but it isn't as easy for a self-taught amateur like me to shape as Teaka's quintessential coat is ?


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

My silver has an excellent coat--better than every black spoo I've met (none of them have been from show breeders, that I know of, though). I've also met a several whites with phenomenal coats, one being from Penndragon and another from Divine.


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## sidewinder (Feb 3, 2016)

Zooeysmom, could you please describe Maizie's coat? Has she started coat change yet? I need to know what to expect, since I'm waiting for a full sib!:dance2:

Everybody, this discussion on coat quality is really interesting to me. I've read many comments about "ideal" coats. I'd appreciate more of a description. What is considered a really good coat? The Poodle Standard says:

(1) Curly: of naturally harsh texture, dense throughout. (2) Corded: hanging in tight even cords of varying length; longer on mane or body coat, head, and ears; shorter on puffs, bracelets, and pompons.

I doubt if anyone here has tried to do a corded coat, but the description of a curly coat is pretty basic!


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## sidewinder (Feb 3, 2016)

Nifty, I hope my little side-track is not hijacking your thread! I almost started a new thread, but my question seemed too similar to yours! I'd really like more info on what is the "best", or at least what is acceptable.

My 2 cents on your coat change questions...My old spoo had pretty much the same coat from puppyhood to age 18. It really didn't change much. I think she was born with her dense, soft, curly coat. It's interesting to hear that your friend's blue changed so much over time! I wonder what my next spoo's coat will do? Is it normal for each to be a little bit individual?


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

sidewinder said:


> Zooeysmom, could you please describe Maizie's coat? Has she started coat change yet? I need to know what to expect, since I'm waiting for a full sib!:dance2:


Sidewinder, Maizie started changing coat early at 6 months. She is almost fully changed at just about 1 year! She just has soft hair on her hind legs. The texture of the rest of her coat is very coarse, curly, and dense.


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## hurricane.harold (Oct 23, 2008)

This is so interesting- my poodle coat knowledge is lacking but I've been wondering about this!

My friend and I have standards from the same breeder- they're from different litters but same lines- and their coats are totally different. 
My friends standard is black and her coat is soft, and wavy, not really curly. She leaves her coat long & never brushes and her pood never mats, the clippers go through her hair like butter, and she feels like she has soft puppy hair, even though she is 2 now. 
My Briar is white, her coat is coarse, thick, and super curly. It's a pain to clip, she gets matted really easily, I have to brush religiously and keep her clipped fairly short. It's very interesting to see how this is so different between each individual dog!


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

> Dulce's sire is also a grand champion and he carries no white or fading gene.


As you know, Draco and Dulce share the same sire. Draco probably continued to change coat texture until he was 2.5-3. He has a correct coarse texture on his body, but softer on his legs, mixture on his topknot and ears. Draco is fading though! He just turned four. I really noticed it in the last year and a half. Even his feet are tinged with gray! He doesn't have the white near his nose, but a general silver/white throughout his coat. I would be interested to see a current picture of Reilly to see if he has that too.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Interesting bigpoodleperson! And very helpful! It is fun to know that Dulcie may possibly continue to have some changing over the next 12 months.

I haven't seen any recent pictures of Rielly, but as you know I met him a few times when I was waiting to pick up Dulcie after her birth. So about two years ago, he was a gorgeous, deep black. I didn't notice any fading on him at all, or white hairs either.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

My white dog, Matisse has a dense coat now that he's nearly 3 years old on his body, less dense on his legs. Coat change was a nightmare. It's so dense, it's not easy to spread any part of it apart to reach my finger down to his skin. (except his legs) And he's in a very short clip. It feels rather soft though to the touch...not quite as soft as a lamb's but not hard or wiry either...like a wired haired terrier of some sort.

Maurice, my little black dog with some silver phantom markings (faint) has less denseness to his coat than Matisse's. It's not hard or wiry either but not fly away. It curls easily and readily but a little looser curls than Matisse. I like that they're sort of soft to the touch, where I can hold them right up against my cheeks like you would a fur coat, not quite that soft. lol.

Matisse's top knot is not extremely dense but dense enough that it stays put, even if I keep it rather long, which I do. Maurice's stays up too but it's more prone to flattening quicker in the rain. lol. He looks mighty funny in that situation. 
*
Matisse*


*Maurice* (an older picture)


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Wow coat change or rather has been on my mind a bit these days, Beatrice started around 9 months and in ernest at 10 1/2 months the worst over by 14/15 months. Beatrice is the first toy poodle that I've had that has a proper texture thick, coarse and curly.

Pia however has thick puppy soft hair at almost 18 months, around 8 months or so she had a brief change in coat texture that changed her head and rump but little else. But not in the last week or so I noticed that her normally pin straight tail has tight curls on the lower half so half is still straight and the hair on her rump is now coarser.

I don't know what to think now, just I was getting used to the fact that she'll be forever soft perhaps it will go they way of Beatrice;s mask


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