# Coloring/Price



## Aldodog1 (10 mo ago)

I’ve been in contact with a reputable breeder who has a gorgeous pet only, no breeding, red toy female available for $3500. Here’s the thing, she has a white mark on her chest. I was not expecting to see a white mark for the amount I would be paying. I do not care about the white mark, but do not want to be over paying. Read the info re pricing and pay breeder or pay vet, but I’m not sure if the pricing reflects pet only, no breeding. Thank you for your thoughts.


----------



## Fluffy Poodle 4 (Nov 29, 2020)

That is toward the higher end of the price range, but is in no way an outrageous price for a poodle of any size. I expect to see a price of $2000-$3500 and most of the breeders I am looking at for the future are hovering around the $2500-$3000 mark.


----------



## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Aldodog1 said:


> I’m not sure if the pricing reflects pet only, no breeding.


Most folks joining aren't looking to start breeding so the range given is geared toward "pet" families.

Any breeder can choose to sell their pups with limited or full registration, if they're purebred. With limited registration, if that pup is bred and puppies result, those puppies cannot be registered. Full registration means that resulting pups can be registered so long as they're purebred.

The part that doesn't usually get brought up is that dogs must be intact to be allowed to compete in the confirmation ring. Showing (and winning) proves that their dogs meet the breed standard and those are the dogs that ideally pass on the genes, if the quality conscientious breeders have anything to say about it. The contract covers that.

This is why full registration isn't sold just for the price of admission by the conscientious breeders. This is why "pet" puppies, from breeders who put in the effort to prove their dogs are quality, are no different from a sibling who might one day be in a show ring but for a "show fault", like a tail set too high.

A show potential puppy is picked by the breeder and/or co-breeder/owner around 7 weeks of age, after they can really get a feel for temperament as well as structure. They will have very different contractual obligations than a pet family would. The breeder will almost always remain a co-owner until the contract terms are met. Usually, the buyer must campaign the dog to a championship at a minimum, to keep the breeder's kennel name, reputation in good standing and to keep the pups that they worked so hard to bring to life from being bred without the same level of dedication they've given.

Conscientious breeders rarely, really rarely, would ever consider selling a breeding right/show potential puppy to the general pet buying public. They are the guardians of the breed's future and take that responsibility seriously.

The white patch makes her what's called an abstract or mismark, which might be a show fault, but absolutely does not diminish her value. She has been raised with every advantage that each of her siblings have been, show potential or not.


----------



## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I think $3500 is within the current range of toy poodles, especially since red is a fad color right now. The white mark is neither here nor there for a pet quality dog. Sometimes mismarks just happen, regardless of what genes the parents carry. I wouldn't expect the breeder to discount the price of a pet puppy just for having one. The puppy costs the same to whelp with or without the mark, and there's no shortage of buyers for red toy puppies. 

For me the bigger consideration would be whether the parents have been tested according to the recommendations of the PCA Poodle Information Online - The Poodle Club of America. One reason for a higher price from reputable breeders is the cost they incur getting these health screenings done. Someone who is charging the same price as a top tier breeder without incurring the same expenses is really just freeloading on the reputations of others.


----------



## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

cowpony said:


> For me the bigger consideration would be whether the parents have been tested according to the recommendations of the PCA Poodle Information Online - The Poodle Club of America. One reason for a higher price from reputable breeders is the cost they incur getting these health screenings done. Someone who is charging the same price as a top tier breeder without incurring the same expenses is really just freeloading on the reputations of others.


That price would be acceptable to me - reds are more popular currently and toy poodles have tiny litters - if this truly is a quality breeder doing everything right. I may be in the minority, but I love those little abstract white markings.

I would want to know that all the PCA testing was performed especially the CAER Exam Patellar Luxation (PL). PL is common in poorly bred tpoos and other small breeds of dog. Surgical repair is expensive, requires time to recuperate from surgery and in my opinion on the few dogs I've seen with this surgery, their back ends never seem to be normal or as physically fit as dogs without this surgery. At this price, I'd expect the breeder to be doing everything right to avoid PL

I would also expect the parents to have titles in AKC or UKC in conformation or one of the dog sports such as agility or rally indicating a dog that is worthy of breeding and has good temperament.


----------

