# High Strung or Normal Puppy Behavior?



## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Except for the biting to blood, she sounds just like Phoebe. Don’t get me wrong, she nipped a LOT, but not usually to blood. She is the highest-energy dog I’ve ever known. She is over 1 now, and I still have to force her to calm down sometimes. It’s funny, I can count on one hand the number of times that she has been nearby and opted to snuggle to sleep. It made me sad when she was a little pup, and I was so jealous of those snuggle puppies (both mine in the past and those online!). But it’s just her personality. She doesn’t like to be touched when she’s sleeping. She sleeps in bed with me now and if I pet her too much before going to sleep, she will remove herself to her dog bed on the floor. On the rare occasion that she does want to snuggle, it is very special. Plus she is my Velcro when she’s not tired. She is the only dog I’ve ever had that hugs like a person. She will stand up and hold my arms and bury her head in my chest for a hug over and over. It’s the sweetest. In my very limited poodle experience, I don’t think you got a calm demeanor dog. Maybe I’m wrong, but we’ve just embraced Phoebe’s wildness. We really had to up our activity level to meet hers. I don’t believe it’s how all poodles are, but I also don’t think it’s out of the ordinary for poodles.


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

My Phoebe Duck will be 13 wks on Fri. Around 15" and 17 lbs. She bites to play, but I taught her not to bite very hard. She's only drawn blood once (she caught me behind my knee), and never did that again. The first couple of weeks she was home, I walked around with a chew toy or treats. I either made her practice her sit or told her "no biting" and gave her a "good girl" when she switched to the toy instead. We knew poodles were Land Sharks for the first couple of months, but we also aren't chew toys. She's going to bite, she's a puppy, but she learned what was too hard and what was allowed. "OW!" and "No!" Followed by not playing until she sat was what worked for us. Side note: we start our day with a dog walk (appropriate for her size and age) at 6am. It seems to take "the edge off" her energy. She gets out of the house. Gets a structured activity, I get time with no phones, no people, no computers. And we both start our day a little calmer. When we miss our walk, she's a little harder to deal with because she's out of her routine. This is our first poodle as well. My Phoebe is a bossy little thing, but not a real biter. I still walk around with treats at all times, but now it's because we're teaching her not to chase the cat.


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## Knitpurlknitpurl (6 mo ago)

Starla said:


> Except for the biting to blood, she sounds just like Phoebe. Don’t get me wrong, she nipped a LOT, but not usually to blood. She is the highest-energy dog I’ve ever known. She is over 1 now, and I still have to force her to calm down sometimes. It’s funny, I can count on one hand the number of times that she has been nearby and opted to snuggle to sleep. It made me sad when she was a little pup, and I was so jealous of those snuggle puppies (both mine in the past and those online!). But it’s just her personality. She doesn’t like to be touched when she’s sleeping. She sleeps in bed with me now and if I pet her too much before going to sleep, she will remove herself to her dog bed on the floor. On the rare occasion that she does want to snuggle, it is very special. Plus she is my Velcro when she’s not tired. She is the only dog I’ve ever had that hugs like a person. She will stand up and hold my arms and bury her head in my chest for a hug over and over. It’s the sweetest. In my very limited poodle experience, I don’t think you got a calm demeanor dog. Maybe I’m wrong, but we’ve just embraced Phoebe’s wildness. We really had to up our activity level to meet hers. I don’t believe it’s how all poodles are, but I also don’t think it’s out of the ordinary for poodles.


 Thank you so much. It’s so hard to know when you haven’t seen other poodles, or lots of dogs in general, with the kids. But I see videos of puppies with kids and pictures, and it’s like night and day. At the same time, you know those are likely the best moments; no one is going to take a picture of their pupping chasing their toddler 

I want what’s best for her but I feel a bit annoyed and want what’s best for us and the kids. I found out after the fact that they didn’t wear collars, I trusted our breeder just “know” who was whom. I’m wondering if we were just given whatever with the “they’re all the same” mentality. I have no first hand experience but I thought that was not true and that is why there is temperament testing, etc.

obviously any dog would have their own personality, but with such a young family, I worry that if she’s too high strung it might be foolish to pursue this with her for all of our sanities; my family is not going to be at older kid Level for atleast another decade, and that’s nearly all of her life with us. That would be unfair to everyone.


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## Knitpurlknitpurl (6 mo ago)

PhoebeDuck said:


> My Phoebe Duck will be 13 wks on Fri. Around 15" and 17 lbs. She bites to play, but I taught her not to bite very hard. She's only drawn blood once (she caught me behind my knee), and never did that again. The first couple of weeks she was home, I walked around with a chew toy or treats. I either made her practice her sit or told her "no biting" and gave her a "good girl" when she switched to the toy instead. We knew poodles were Land Sharks for the first couple of months, but we also aren't chew toys. She's going to bite, she's a puppy, but she learned what was too hard and what was allowed. "OW!" and "No!" Followed by not playing until she sat was what worked for us. Side note: we start our day with a dog walk (appropriate for her size and age) at 6am. It seems to take "the edge off" her energy. She gets out of the house. Gets a structured activity, I get time with no phones, no people, no computers. And we both start our day a little calmer. When we miss our walk, she's a little harder to deal with because she's out of her routine. This is our first poodle as well. My Phoebe is a bossy little thing, but not a real biter. I still walk around with treats at all times, but now it's because we're teaching her not to chase the cat.


Thank you! We’ve been doing this as well. We tried the barking like momma dog, the loud ouching from Dunbar, the time outs and the redirecting. Now we’re simply putting her in her area and withdrawing for a bit if she bites, leaving her there alone for a bit so she understands she loses playtime when she’s nasty. We’ve been consistently doing it from day one. I am up with her around 5:30 with the kids. She gets a pee, and a small walk around the yard, comes in for breakfast and quiet play time in her area (but we are all nearby). She’s outside in the yard all of the time with me through the day. We have an acre of land and live next to family who also have their own acre, so it’s plenty to explore. I’m really at a loss.
We purposefully got a puppy thinking it would be easier to deal with puppy behavior rather potential baggage that would need major behavior modification? Maybe this was the wrong thing to do?

it makes me sad to see these cuddly loving puppies that seem so welll adjusted. I’m hoping it’s just a grass is greener scenario. I know my kids and hubby are disappointed too but no one wants to admit it.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Phoebe is my 6th dog as an adult, and I regularly fostered and volunteered at the animal shelter before kids. My twins are 7.5 and my little guy is 5. I get what you’re saying, and I feel it might be best to return her to the breeder. Better that than you all end up regretting the dog, or trying to rehome her when she is older. With Starla, my poodle before Phoebe, she was B U S Y, and man did she put holes in the kids clothes!, but she was not like Phoebe. We also got first pick with Starla, and there were 5 or 6 girls to choose from, so I chose the middle ground pup. With Phoebe, I knew picking her up that she was going to be a handful, but it was either her or the entirely too laid back sister to choose from.
There absolutely are different personalities, and maybe you could try again with a breeder that knows which pup is which, truly does temperament testing, and selects the best pup for you based on what you’re looking for. Those breeders seem to be hard to find, but they’re out there.


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

Out of curiosity... Those "cuddly loving puppies" you mention... What breed are they? Some have an easier time with kids than others. I'm not saying a poodle is the wrong breed, but maybe a different breed would be a better match? And not all older dogs come with baggage. 🙂 DH rescued a boxer female that was being neglected. Kept in a kennel for 12+ hrs a day. Wonderful dog, no behavior issues. Just needed a bath and some love.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Puppies are rarely cuddly in my experience, unless they are practically asleep - they are too busy, too easily aroused, too quick to go from 0 to 60. Freddy was a very easy puppy but it has only been since he reached 11-12 months that he has started to arrive on my lap wanting a cuddle and a snooze. There are exceptions of course, but I don't think a pup's attitude to cuddling is much of a predictor of their opinion as an adult. And few dogs of any age enjoy hugs - leaning into you, yes; petting and stroking, yes; tight hugging, no.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

My dog was always biting and attacking when he was little. He didn't make me bleed but he did cause a lot of scratches. I was often trying to stay out of reach of his teeth. He tore many clothes. 

When he was very little he would sleep on/next to me but he became very independent and no longer wanted to sleep near me. At about 9 months he started being willing to lay near me again and slowly became very snuggly. Now he likes to sleep on me all the time. It was important to not try to force anything with him. He didn't want to be snuggled for a long time, and touching him would make him want to leave. Now he enjoys it though. They can go through different phases as they age.

I would speak to your breeder about your puppy's behavior. Every breeder wants puppies to end up in perfect homes, and she may have insight into the situation.


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## Sroodle8 (Dec 23, 2021)

My dog was a very bitey puppy and did not snuggle. She would hump my son when they were playing. Eventually (at 5-7 months) these behaviors calmed down. I worked with my son to de-escalate the excitement and to give her a command, we made sure she had non-human flesh to chew on, and she became a great pet. She is still not snuggly, I think she has a large personal space, but she wants to be with me as much as possible. Keep her exercised and train her. Poodles are smart, every time my girl started a new behavior that I didn't like, I taught her a new command...come, sit, stay, down, shake, other paw, side, front...gave her something to focus on. I think your pup will grow out of it.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

Someone on another forum gave a good description of high drive, high energy puppies.... "Psychotic ping-pong ball of destruction". And yes, she was talking about her (now three year old) SPoo. Some breeders won't sell a puppy to families with younger children because puppies are so busy and bitey. 

Have you discussed your concerns with the breeder? What advice have they given you?


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Regarding the size, she does sound small for a standard poodle. Assuming she is otherwise healthy (a question for your vet) I'm guessing she will end up in the large moyen range. (It's a hard size to find; people will be envious. )

As for the biting, it's hard to say without seeing the interactions. As a general rule, however, standard poodle puppies are energetic and bitey. Run a search on this forum and you'll turn up plenty of threads from new owners concerned they have an aggressive puppy with no bite inhibition. One important thing to remember is not to jerk your hand back when the puppy nips. Even the best intentioned puppy can't stop himself from drawing blood if you drag your skin across his teeth. Also, pulling your hand back quickly will trigger the puppy to follow the movement, as though you were an escaping rabbit. Move calmly and deliberately instead. 

Here are a few of the threads









Biting People to play


Hello, I am wondering if anyone has any tips on how to get your puppy to stop biting people? I have lots of chew toys and try to replace arms/ankles in is mouth with those. I have tried loud yelping followed by limp wrist (which just seems to encourage him). Tried water spray which kind of works...




www.poodleforum.com




.









Difficult Poodle Puppy


My pup is now 8 months old. He can be very sweet and then turn on a dime and begin biting and chomping and throwing himself at me. No amount of stuffing chew toys in his mouth does any bit of good. There are times we can sit on the couch cuddling for 2 hours, after which he just starts in...




www.poodleforum.com













Biting While Walking


Hello! My 9 week old little boy peanut has been a smart one so far, he’s learned recall for his name and knows the command “sit”. However, there is of course more work to be done with him as he continues his journey to being housebroken. Biting has been a lot sometimes. He really likes to bite...




www.poodleforum.com





I jokingly described my older dog, Galen, as a vampire toddler during his puppy years. He bit. He threw tantrums. He was utterly and completely self centered. He wanted affection only when he was upset and in need of comforting. The secret to dealing with him was to recognize that he was a baby and meet him at his level of emotional maturity. I spent hours playing impulse control games to get him to tone down his behavior. (I described some of these games in the threads above.) At around 18 months it was like I had a different dog, but the first 18 months were pretty intense.

Galen's snuggling took time to develop. He didn't want to be cuddled when he was a small puppy; he wanted to play, eat, or sleep. Snuggling was just time away from more important things In his opinion. He now chooses to hop up on the couch and put a head in my lap if I'm reading, and he flops up against my husband in bed at night. 


Here is a picture of puppy Galen wrestling with my late beloved Pogo over possession of a tennis ball. Looks fierce, eh? 

Pouncing on Pogo's head:









Bunny kicking and biting Pogo while Pogo gently bites a paw in return:









This is what a puppy considers normal play, at least until he is mature enough to understand that this play style is not acceptable behavior with humans. Your puppy is probably a bit mystified as to why you aren't playing properly. He will mistake kids running, people gesturing with their hands, and people holding objects as invitations to play. Harmonious relations with a puppy require both the humans and the puppy to modify their behavior. The humans need to learn not to accidentally tease and spin up the puppy. The puppy needs to learn to read human signals and to play appropriately. It takes time and consistency for everyone to figure out what works.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

What cowpony says resonates a lot with me. 
I have three kids. My youngest is six. When she and my middle child get dancing in the living room, our pup (who will be a year old this month) still can’t help but interpret the spinning limbs and flailing hands as invitations to play. I echo that it’s been as much about me teaching the kids how to “speak puppy” as it’s been about teaching Bennie impulse control and “not this, this instead.”

That said, I picked the pup who demonstrated lots of coming to cuddle as a wee one, so I can also appreciate that temperament plays a role. (She doesn’t cuddle with everyone to be clear. I think the photos you are talking about are like Instagram— glossy and totally inaccurate representations of real life). 

Training is so useful for tiring puppy out mentally. It’s as important as the physical exercise. Impulse control games are very hard work for the brain and you can get the kids in on it too.

Personally I couldn’t have spent the past year training Bennie if my kids were even younger. I know others have done it and will do it, but I accept that is not my strong suit. A toddler human and a toddler puppy is a LOT. No matter what decision you make, I’d caution you to both be honest about the work and time and energy you need to put in to life with a pup and young kiddos. You deserve compassion, your kids do, and so does the pup who is just learning too.


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## Knitpurlknitpurl (6 mo ago)

BennieJets said:


> What cowpony says resonates a lot with me.
> I have three kids. My youngest is six. When she and my middle child get dancing in the living room, our pup (who will be a year old this month) still can’t help but interpret the spinning limbs and flailing hands as invitations to play. I echo that it’s been as much about me teaching the kids how to “speak puppy” as it’s been about teaching Bennie impulse control and “not this, this instead.”
> 
> That said, I picked the pup who demonstrated lots of coming to cuddle as a wee one, so I can also appreciate that temperament plays a role. (She doesn’t cuddle with everyone to be clear. I think the photos you are talking about are like Instagram— glossy and totally inaccurate representations of real life).
> ...


Thank you for all of the wonderful replies! This makes me feel so sad, as I’m wondering if a puppy was just a poor choice all around. I feel a bit annoyed that we weren’t told this wasn’t a good idea. Is that unreasonable? They knew we were first time dog owners. My spouse is so mad at me but I feel like I couldn’t predict this at all. He says I should have known, but I suppose I relied on the breeder to offer more information. I wouldn’t have even known the questions to ask other than here is our family, what do you think? And Ofcourse the list from the “what to ask your breeder” things. What could I have done? Did I do something wrong other than being naive?


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

Knitpurlknitpurl said:


> My spouse is so mad at me but I feel like I couldn’t predict this at all. He says I should have known.


Why does this all fall on you? Did you not make the decision as a couple? If I had to guess, maybe he’s feeling sad/annoyed with himself too. Sometimes it’s easier to project that at someone else rather than take personal responsibility for it, because it’s so uncomfortable.
And let’s be real, you’re both likely feeling some grief too. Grief over what you thought life would be like with the fluff ball.

I think it’s probably pretty common for first-time poodle owners to be like “Eee gads this thing is more mouthy than I anticipated.” As cowpony pointed out there are lots of threads where folks write on here questioning if their dog is aggressive. Maybe reading some will help you.

Sometimes it’s a matter of adjusting your expectations and releasing some wishful thinking and control, learning to love what-is, and sometimes it’s a matter of accepting what you can’t accept.

Have you talked to the breeder about how you’re feeling? They should be happy to help new families and puppies in this transition period, they may have lots of experience and wisdom to share. Ultimately you will know what you’re up for and what you’re not up for. No sense is shaming and blaming. You can take the lesson from it, whatever it is.


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

I think this is a matter you need to discuss with the breeder. A heart-to-heart with your family might also help to clear the air. If worse comes to worse, perhaps the breeder will accept the puppy back. Buyers remorse is a real thing, even when it comes to puppies. Or, you can give the puppy more time. Not much help, but those are a few options.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Knitpurlknitpurl said:


> I am up with her around 5:30 with the kids. She gets a pee, and a small walk around the yard, comes in for breakfast and quiet play time in her area (but we are all nearby). She’s outside in the yard all of the time with me through the day. We have an acre of land and live next to family who also have their own acre, so it’s plenty to explore. I’m really at a loss.


How much is she sleeping? Young puppies need a solid 18-20 hours per day. And they should never be woken up from a nap.

We taught Peggy to want to “cuddle” by sitting in her pen with a bully stick and holding it for her to chew. But it wasn’t until her first heat that we got our cuddly poodle. Honestly, I’m still kind of shocked when I see her snoozing peacefully on the couch now at 3 years, because for so long I never imagined she would (or could).


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

With each child I’ve had, I can vividly recall these specific moments. The dust was beginning to settle, the guests had left and were returning to life as usual, my partner was snoring downstairs on the couch... and I was laying in bed, in the dark, with this newborn totally reliant on me... No one could breast feed them but me. I was ON 24/7 and suddenly felt the weight of OH GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE? A suffocating, claustrophobic, no way out feeling. And then shame for feeling that way.

Not that a puppy is a human baby. But it is a huge commitment. You can’t turn off a puppy, just like you can’t turn off a baby. And when it feels hard and like it’s all on you, it can feel suffocating. When they feel like vampiric, life force sucking, non smiling, bawling colicky beasts, you feel like an absolute monster admitting to yourself that all you wanted was someone to snuggle and coo over.

All of that came to me as I read “buyer’s remorse” in Steve55’s response. I had baby-havin remorse every darn time. No one told me I would, and I didn’t have anyone at the time that I felt safe admitting it to. Not that I didn’t love my kids! But to say that Love looks one way is such horsesh*t and, well, as I said earlier, Instagram hokey.

I wouldn’t give my kids up for anything. I would do those terrifying claustrophobic moments over on the daily if that was what it took to be their mom. Not saying you have to do that with a pup. Good news is, you can return or rehome them and sometimes that is the best for all involved.

Just offering all of this long winded anecdotal narrative to normalize our very human ways of experiencing changes and growth and new additions.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I expect part of your stress is that your attention is being pulled between three pre-teen kids plus the puppy. My general experience with poodle puppies is that they require the attention of one functional adult at any time they are not passed out asleep in their pen. That's not really any different from any other baby. 

I'm wondering how your 8 and 10 year old currently feel about the situation. Do they enjoy having a puppy, or are they intimidated by her antics? I think I would sit down with them and discuss next steps with them. You know your kids best, but I'm sure they have thoughts.
Option 1: Puppy is scary and no fun. Puppy goes back to the breeder and does not get replaced until your youngest is old enough to handle a puppy, probably 6 or more years from now. Either make this puppy work, or household remains dogless.
Option 2: Puppy is a handful but still kinda fun for the older kids, and they want to keep her. At bare minimum, the older kids need to pull up their big girl panties. Don't go crying to mama when the puppy draws blood. Wash it off, put on a bandaid, and figure out how not to do whatever it was that got you hurt. (Yes, this is my Gen-X feral kid upbringing speaking here. I would have bled out and died rather than tattling on my puppy.)
Option 3: Puppy is a handful, still kinda fun, and the older kids want to help as well as keep her: Watch Kikopup videos and have one kid at a time practice teaching the pup basic manners in five minute sessions. (Two kids is too confusing for the pup. Have one kid practice in the morning and the other kid practice in the afternoon if they both want to do it.) Explore local puppy manners classes that will allow underage attendees. See if there are easy household chores, like unloading the dishwasher, one kid can perform while you are providing taxi service to manners training for the other kid.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

You’re getting such good advice. There’s not much to add. But did anyone mention that needle-teethed puppies typically draw blood when you pull away? That’s how their teeth are designed, like little razors. So as much as it might feel counterintuitive, you need to resist the urge to yank your hand or foot or pant leg away. Calmly redirect to a toy, which you animate to make much more exciting than whatever puppy is currently latched onto. This means having toys of all shapes, sizes, and textures within easy reach at all times.

Genius little poodle puppies are a ridiculous amount of work. But the work is an investment. And just like financial investments, energetic investments require that you actually have the energy to invest! I certainly couldn’t have raised Peggy alongside three kids.


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## Apricot mini momma (Dec 22, 2020)

I honestly don't know how people raise young kids and puppies, especially smart ones like poodles, at the same time. I have been the primary puppy parent and through Beau's first year it was a ton of effort. I work a lot, and so most of my free time, especially in those first 6 months, were managing and teaching the puppy. My husband took to doing almost all of the cooking, he did all of the grocery shopping and took on most of the dishes and tidy up chores. We wanted to raise a good mannered pup, and he didn't know what to do with a baby puppy so he helped in other ways. I really think you would need help from the family, as suggested by others. 

I also know a couple of family's who raised Doodles with small children and the Doodles never got the proper training or had the appropriate behavior shown to them. Now that they are a couple of years old, the kids are scared of them and want nothing to do with them, and the kids friends are also scared of dogs because of them. They are good kind dogs, but they knock over the little ones, chase them etc. because the parents never had time to teach the dogs how to behave. It's a lot of work.

I think Beau is high energy, and we wanted that. He didn't cuddle as a puppy, I did as said above, let him chew a bully stick on my lap, and now its his favorite place to be. At almost 2 years old, he still has some things to learn, but he is much calmer, naps with the humans and is calm with kids (mostly - and he is managed with kids in his pen or on a leash).

I hope you find a decision that is right for you and your family.


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> There’s not much to add. But did anyone mention that needle-teethed puppies typically draw blood when you pull away?


PtP is spot on. It doesn't take much for puppy teeth to break the skin. You've been offered a lot of wisdom here and what you describe doesn’t differ widely from most of our experiences with our own puppies. It sounds like you're doing the right things. Hang in there, it does get better.


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

Just an addendum, as you have gotten plenty of really good advice. A lot of my Spoo Rhonda's "puppy behavior" has just disappeared now that she is about nine months. She would chew up throw rugs, and vertical blinds,not anymore. She was rather "mouthy", not anymore (stuck a chew toy in her mouth every time she did that, and ignored her), Those are the things I was most concerned with and they have just sort of gone away. I suppose that sounds like a long time, but it goes really quickly.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

SteveS55 said:


> Just an addendum, as you have gotten plenty of really good advice. A lot of my Spoo Rhonda's "puppy behavior" has just disappeared now that she is about nine months. She would chew up throw rugs, and vertical blinds,not anymore.


Lucky you.  Life with 17 month old Simon is still 20% "What are you getting into now?", 50% "You don't need that. Leave it alone.", and 30% "I told you that you don't need that, now give it here.".


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I think the Eagle has landed for you with the comments from members .

You're a first-time puppy dog family with what sounds like a very normal standard poodle puppy.
No one told you however that you'd have a 300 level 4-legged infant on your hands for months.

You will need to confab and assess whether you, jointly, have the time and energy to give to this additional family member for the time it takes to get him raised.

In fairness, spoo's aren't known for their maturity until they're 2-3 years old. This doesn't mean that things will be just like this til then. It's a maturing process.

The best and worst of puppyhood is usually past by say, 6-8m or so. Every week between now and then, if you put in the effort, you'll see something get better. By 6- 8m you get real and longer glimmers of the adult on the way. You still have adolescence to get thru, and that's a pretty long stretch.

They are smart, very smart, but don't mistake that as necessarily being the same as "easy to train". Smart for poodles means they THINK.

Poodles are smart, savvy, sensitive, and selfish. They observe, reason, consider and conclude, with more than a bit of "What's in it for me?". They aren't a separate part of your life, they're smack in the middle of it and thrive with that. It's hard to make clear just how "not alone" you'll be with a poodle in your life, not in an unhealthy way for either of you, but because that's what you both sign up for.

I post these quotes occasionally, to give someone new to poodles a point of view they may not have considered.

_"Poodles are Labs with a college education. My Poodle will do anything your Labrador will do. After a day of retrieving in the field, your Lab wants to curl up and snore in front of the fire. My Poodle wants to be a fourth at bridge and tell naughty stories."
Anne Rogers Clark, the famous handler, all breed judge and Poodle breeder.

Furness 1891
The American Book of the Dog (1891)

"....He is also, in my opinion, more susceptible of education than any other member of his race, seeming to have an innate love for tricks, and needing only to understand what you wish to do it immediately, and then enjoy the fun of it as much as you do.

"Yet, notwithstanding his wonderful intelligence, the greatest patience is required in teaching each new trick. Remember that he is even more anxious to understand you than you are to make him comprehend what you wish, and that a word of encouragement or a friendly pat on the head goes ten times as far as a scolding or a blow. At the same time, bear in mind that the greatest firmness is required, for if a dog for a moment suspects that your whole heart and soul are not in the matter, he at once thinks it must be of small consequence and loses all interest in it forthwith.

"Make him think you are both doing something for mutual amusement, and he will respond and do everything in his power to follow out your wishes, provided he is already firmly attached to you; and in this lies the secret of success or failure in all training; for as he cannot understand your language, he must know by heart all your gestures and intonations...."_

Poodles believe in equal rights 


This is some of what I've written about my first puppies in over 30 years:

_We brought our boys home toward the end of June. They were born at the end of April. 
I wrote in my puppy journal on 9-7:
"They are both still quite bitey but mostly when excited or playing. They have each shown a bit more cuddly behavior lately".

Land Sharkery, house-training, other training, play, exercise, cleaning, near complete exhaustion for the first 2-3 months, more than a few breakdowns into tears and wondering if this was a horrible mistake and I'd need to find them another home, doing all this without much in-house support, oh, and severely sprained wrist after stepping on and falling over puppy Neo making me one-handed for those early months, that puppy time I wasn't prepared for. It may have been good that I didn't have other breeds to compare to.

It was the days, and getting up early, for me, that was doing me in. I joined PF to thank everyone for helping me maintain my sanity. I know it was weeks, maybe even a couple of months before I started feeling anything but exhaustion and frustration when looking at them. Eventually it all happened but puppies are definitely not fairy tale material .

Fast forward and I think of some threads where folks had already committed but were writing in here, so overwhelmed by what they'd taken on, not fully knowing, and wondering if they should rehome their poodle. The biting, the jumping and being knocked over, often their first dog or first poodle. _

If you have, or can muster, the resources to find your path together, you'll share some amazing experiences, joy, and the depth that another thinking species adds to your life.

Only you with your family can decide if this time is right to follow that path.


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## Haitch (6 mo ago)

I failed with a standard poodle with small children , I failed him , he was fine with the children though , just couldn’t give him enough exercise etc so he was naughty and destructive . 
Some dogs will cuddle , but it’s not a natural dog thing to do , primates cuddle , an arm over a dogs back is similar to a dominant paw in their minds .
personally I recommend a companion dog with children , bearded collies work as well , coat is time consuming though .
all dogs were bred over hundreds of years to do a job , herding , guarding , vermin killers etc , now we expect them to slot into our lives . To be fair to the dogs , a lot manage this . 
a companion breed was bred to be just this ...a companion , though show cocker spaniels do pretty well . 
Tibetan terriers are not terriers , they are a herding companion breed , soft coated wheaten terriers, though a terrier can be good as they are soft natured . Standard schnauzers , these have been wonderful dogs for us , will guard, protect . 
not much use in your situation any of this , but go with your gut instinct . Poodles generally have good natures , the one I have now is a bit of a mutt , won’t win any prizes but is a cuddle muffin


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Knitpurlknitpurl said:


> Thank you for all of the wonderful replies! This makes me feel so sad, as I’m wondering if a puppy was just a poor choice all around. I feel a bit annoyed that we weren’t told this wasn’t a good idea. Is that unreasonable? They knew we were first time dog owners. My spouse is so mad at me but I feel like I couldn’t predict this at all. He says I should have known, but I suppose I relied on the breeder to offer more information. I wouldn’t have even known the questions to ask other than here is our family, what do you think? And Ofcourse the list from the “what to ask your breeder” things. What could I have done? Did I do something wrong other than being naive?


How are you doing today?

I personally don’t think a dog is a poor choice. I’ve had very, very limited time in my life without a dog. My first steps were assisted by my mom’s schnauzer. I love dogs, and I love seeing my children share that love. I don’t agree with all that’s been advised here though. I don’t think you have a ‘perfectly normal spoo puppy’. There are easy keepers and there are tough puppies -both are normal, but raising them is night and day. Sure, they might all end up great adults, but what does it take to get there? I feel certain that if you had gone to Elroy’s breeder and had the same experience Tom had (also a first time dog owner), then you would be having a much easier time of it.
Regarding kids and dogs, mine are a bit younger than yours, and mine never asked for a dog, but I went into this knowing that she is MY dog. I would love for her to be the family pet. I can’t force them to love or even like her. I wouldn’t necessarily give them any say in if the dog stays. Get their thoughts, sure, but the weight of the decision should not rest on such small shoulders. One of my 7s has been involved since day 1. He has already informed me that he will be riding along to pick up the new puppy. He does trick training with her, and they’re besties. He also believes he will be taking Phoebe when he moves out. 😂 I told him we’re a package deal-if he takes her, he has to take me too! My other 7 was much less involved in the beginning. Now he will do tricks with her sometimes and since she’s not a constant whirling dervish, he seeks her out for play, loves to swim and play fetch with her. My 5 was a young 4 when Phoebe came home. Told me from the beginning he didn’t like her, and he didn’t want a dog. This week, he gave her her Freshpet breakfast plate one morning. Very tiny baby steps. Very occasionally, she will make him laugh, sometimes she makes him mad, but they mostly ignore each other.

Anyways, I hope you are feeling better today than yesterday. The despair in your response made me so sad, and you have been in my thoughts.


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## Apricot mini momma (Dec 22, 2020)

Starla said:


> How are you doing today?
> 
> I personally don’t think a dog is a poor choice. I’ve had very, very limited time in my life without a dog. My first steps were assisted by my mom’s schnauzer. I love dogs, and I love seeing my children share that love. I don’t agree with all that’s been advised here though. I don’t think you have a ‘perfectly normal spoo puppy’. There are easy keepers and there are tough puppies -both are normal, but raising them is night and day. Sure, they might all end up great adults, but what does it take to get there? I feel certain that if you had gone to Elroy’s breeder and had the same experience Tom had (also a first time dog owner), then you would be having a much easier time of it.
> Regarding kids and dogs, mine are a bit younger than yours, and mine never asked for a dog, but I went into this knowing that she is MY dog. I would love for her to be the family pet. I can’t force them to love or even like her. I wouldn’t necessarily give them any say in if the dog stays. Get their thoughts, sure, but the weight of the decision should not rest on such small shoulders. One of my 7s has been involved since day 1. He has already informed me that he will be riding along to pick up the new puppy. He does trick training with her, and they’re besties. He also believes he will be taking Phoebe when he moves out. 😂 I told him we’re a package deal-if he takes her, he has to take me too! My other 7 was much less involved in the beginning. Now he will do tricks with her sometimes and since she’s not a constant whirling dervish, he seeks her out for play, loves to swim and play fetch with her. My 5 was a young 4 when Phoebe came home. Told me from the beginning he didn’t like her, and he didn’t want a dog. This week, he gave her her Freshpet breakfast plate one morning. Very tiny baby steps. Very occasionally, she will make him laugh, sometimes she makes him mad, but they mostly ignore each other.
> ...


Very good points @Starla. Looking back, I think my post was too negative and maybe not so helpful. It certainly can be done, raising puppies and kids together. It has been done for years and is quite often successful for everyone. It takes a commitment from at least one family member and understanding from the rest. When we had dogs as a kid, they were a family dog(s), but my dad did all the caring and training. I got to pet them and play with them and not worry about that other stuff.


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## Fluffoff (5 mo ago)

Don’t stress!
My Cooper is now 19 weeks not perfect but much much better. in the beginning he would play so rough he would draw blood, he would cause all the dogs at the dog park to yelp out in pain. then my 2nd week at the park there was another standard poodle and I had asked the owner if she to had the rough nipping from her puppy she turned to me and said DONT STRESS all poodles play a little rough because poodles have such thick fur that when the puppy is biting mom or dad they don’t feel it as much so the bite


Knitpurlknitpurl said:


> Hi everyone! This forum has been so helpful and I’m so thankful for this wonderful community.
> 
> This our first dog as a family. We got our puppy from a reputable breeder when she was 9 weeks old. We have three children (10, 8, 2) and I know this can be a lot. She has a gated play area with a crate and she usually naps ok but we also have a crate in our bedroom. Obviously she gets bitey when she’s overtired, but I’m concerned about her temperament. It’s been a little over a month now and I thought I’d give her some time to come out of her shell and adjust. I just want to make sure this is normal puppy behavior.
> 
> ...


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## beowoof (Dec 6, 2021)

reading your post was like an instant shockwave back to the past: biting, ripping clothes, tugging at the leash, not being able to settle, struggling with boundaries, appearing "high strung" -- all experiences i've had and can deeply empathize with. you've gotten a lot of good advice, a poodle puppy is a force to be reckoned with and was a deep shock to my system. one thing to consider is just how easily overstimulated puppies (especially intelligent poodle puppies) can get. things that are "normal" to us are completely novel to them, like the breeze or a single blade of grass. everything is overstimulating and i found Kirby to be either completely passed out in his crate or awake and ready to GO GO GO with little room for chilling in-between.



Knitpurlknitpurl said:


> They knew we were first time dog owners. My spouse is so mad at me but I feel like I couldn’t predict this at all. He says I should have known, but I suppose I relied on the breeder to offer more information. I wouldn’t have even known the questions to ask other than here is our family, what do you think? And Ofcourse the list from the “what to ask your breeder” things. What could I have done? Did I do something wrong other than being naive?


i think there is a little bit of first-time dog owner naivete, i know myself getting Kirby was entirely a new experience. my previous dogs seemed like furry potatoes in comparison to this bitey, screechy, demanding little creature. i think what's most important is that everyone in the family is on the same page. a poodle puppy alone is a lot of work, let alone three young children and a household to maintain. i don't think you've done anything wrong, but it might be worth sitting with your partner and figuring out a routine or times where you each get a break from the puppy while maintaining household harmony. the other suggestion i'd make is to take a breather before making any big decisions with your puppy. is there a friend or family member who wouldn't mind dogsitting for an afternoon? i found in the first few months having a few puppy-free hours gave me enough of a boost to not send Kirby back to the breeder when he was at his brattiest, bitiest moments.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Following Starla's check-in, how are you all doing today?
Whatever you feel is right for your family and Luna, we're here for you.


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## Moni (May 8, 2018)

Sorry I have not read through all the replies some of this maybe a repeat, but my two cents are: hold on, stay the course - it gets better. I think we are all plagued by a sort of imaging of the mythical perfect puppy (and I am a major realist so not a dreamer at all) still my mini poo brought me to tears every single night at the beginning (and yes some of that was missing my two other dogs who had passed and comparatively were super easy. My at the time 4 pound poodle puppy was a mini crocodile with the demeanor and intelligence of the Jurassic Park velociraptors. My pajama sleeves were shredded to bits - since that was his most mouthy time, my arms looked like I had decided to train cats for the circus. This horrible first phase lasted for almost 6 months. I learned (especially here) a lot - even though I had been all my life surrounded by dogs, had trained dogs (many of them more than 100 pounds heavier than my lunatic Poodle and had shown dogs all my life - I basically had to relearn a lot. My Poodle to this day is smart, insanely easily aroused but at the same time is such a massively impressive part of our family that has taught us all so much - including and especially my grandson (who is now 7). Their interaction is marvelous as the Poodle is able to make my grandson feel he is the most accomplish dog trainer in the world. All in all it is worth - you didn't make a mistake - it will take time. Please read up on arousal behavior (I don't mean sexual obviously) and calming behavior - even a loud house full of kids can be the right environment. Teach the dog to retrieve (it won't take much) and then teach the kids to play to tire him out, add all kinds of brain games. Mental tiredness almost always outweighs physical tiring. Start scent games, tracking scent games. Work with a trainer - high drive is good - it just needs to be channelled. And by all means by bully sticks by the pound (I used raw chicken feet because mine is raw fed) they will save your poor hands.


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## karen1732 (11 mo ago)

Knitpurlknitpurl said:


> Hi everyone! This forum has been so helpful and I’m so thankful for this wonderful community.
> 
> This our first dog as a family. We got our puppy from a reputable breeder when she was 9 weeks old. We have three children (10, 8, 2) and I know this can be a lot. She has a gated play area with a crate and she usually naps ok but we also have a crate in our bedroom. Obviously she gets bitey when she’s overtired, but I’m concerned about her temperament. It’s been a little over a month now and I thought I’d give her some time to come out of her shell and adjust. I just want to make sure this is normal puppy behavior.
> 
> ...





Knitpurlknitpurl said:


> Hi everyone! This forum has been so helpful and I’m so thankful for this wonderful community.
> 
> This our first dog as a family. We got our puppy from a reputable breeder when she was 9 weeks old. We have three children (10, 8, 2) and I know this can be a lot. She has a gated play area with a crate and she usually naps ok but we also have a crate in our bedroom. Obviously she gets bitey when she’s overtired, but I’m concerned about her temperament. It’s been a little over a month now and I thought I’d give her some time to come out of her shell and adjust. I just want to make sure this is normal puppy behavior.
> 
> ...


We have an 11 month old named Harley but until a couple of months ago, his nickname was Bitey McBiteface. He terrorized our house from the time he was 14 weeks old. Many nights I asked myself whatever possessed me to think this was a good idea.
We worked on training, we went on walks, he took naps but without fail at 5 pm he just exploded. Running through the house, biting, jumping, terrorizing our other dogs. It was miserable. And then, when I had almost decided I had to do something, 5 pm rolled around…and no explosion. Yes it did start but it was later and shorter each day and over time the explosions slowly subsided and he has pretty much turned into Mr Wonderful. I never would have believed it if I hadn’t lived through it. He has always been a loving, charming boy, just…a lot. I don’t know if your puppy will be the same, but that’s how it has gone for us.


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## ndspencer1104 (Jun 28, 2021)

Agree with puppy teeth being sharp and puppies explore via their mouths. I've lived with 8 std Poodles since I was 9 years old. As a child the poodle was a bit aggrivated by 6 children "playing" with her. She "played" back. As an adult, my poodles have come in various drives ... or activity levels. Some were less active and one was extremely active. The very active std poodle was a bad fit for me. 20/20 hindsight - I wish I had returned the dog as a puppy. He would have been a much better hunting dog than obedience prospect. 
That said ... 7 of my other poodles were better fits ... not perfect poodle puppies. All different personalities.

Is the breeder working with you to solve issues ... ?
Is the breeder willing to take back this puppy and offer a less active puppy?
Has the breeder ever had returned puppies?

Not every puppy is right for all families - no matter which breed. Please consider talking with the breeder and use videos to describe issues - videos of the actual unwanted behaviors that can help illustrate your concerns. 
Also make a list of your expectations:
1. Puppy drive ... low, medium, high?
2. Puppies with retrieving drive ... easier to exercise.
3. Activities you want to engage your puppy with ... agility = higher drive, therapy/support = lower drive. Rally or obedience = medium drive and biddable. My current poodle loves scent games like finding the ball I touched among untouched balls.
4. How much time is the family willing to devote to training the puppy?
5. Who is the puppy for ... kids? Adults? Whole family? ... small children often like to carry puppies and not all puppies like that. 
6. Then go and check out a few litters - interact with them to get a feel for each pup. Experience each puppy ... what fits or feels right? 
Again all poodle puppies are different - not all poodle breeders are the same. I personally have learned that I need to "sit" with a puppy for at least an hour or preferably....an hour on 2 separate occasions before I buy. 

Go with your heart ... all involved will be much happier in my opinion.


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## blkdog (Nov 22, 2011)

All puppies are a ton of work, you forget until you bring home a new puppy and you question your sanity. I have an eight-month-old Havanese right now, my second Havanese and in my opinion, way easier than a standard poodle. Even with my Havanese, a very easy breed to train and live with, we had to housebreak, deal with constant puppy biting until about seven months old, deal with chasing the cats, getting into litter boxes and driving my two senior dogs crazy. I keep training fun and positive and keep reminding myself she is a baby and with patience, kindness, and consistency this will all pass. My Poodle, way more work, pulled on the leash, dog reactivity, jumping on people and hyperactivity. I trained with praise and treats, he is now a certified therapy dog and has his excellent title in rally and is very fun and easy to live with. He is now nine years old and it took three years of constant training to get him there. Poodles are considered easy to train but I've had seven dogs, and six different breeds and my poodle was the most work. However, this is just my experience. I wouldn't trade him for anything, today he is calm, listens to me and is extremely loving with all people and gets along great with dogs, no longer reactive but that took lots of training.
Check out Zac George on YouTube, he offers training solutions. Please use only positive training, scientific research has proven this is the most humane and most effective way to train dogs. If you hire a trainer be careful, there are a lot of bad trainers out there and they ruin good dogs by training with harsh methods. Poodles are very sensitive, no dog should be trained with punishment but it will destroy a poodle.
Happy training, have fun and enjoy your puppy.


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