# Questions about whole fish and powdered egg



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I'll dive in here with the fish. I stay away from canned sardines because as you mentioned, they're usually very high in sodium, which while it is not so good for us, as I understand it, it's even worse for dogs if too much is given. Naturally, everyone needs some sodium but that's in meats and things anyhow. Once in a great while I'll give them a little canned for a snack if I'm having some. But I get those in water. But still....high in sodium. Vinegar wouldn't hurt them at all, but salt. Ahhh.

I get sardines at the Asian markets around here. They are fed this fish because apparently, they have a short life span and don't have so much time to absorb too many contaminants. I feed them whole, fins, tail, head, everything. It's how they'd eat fish if they were going fishing themselves! lol. The bones are pretty soft and easy for them to process. (of course, all this is raw, never cooked) They are frozen though first for a couple weeks. 

No pacific northwest salmon, as there is a parasite that is not killed by freezing as most are and it's potentially deadly. 

And only feed fish once or twice a week, no more. There is an enzyme (thiaminaze) that renders vitamin B1 inactive. So very important not to over do, but enough to get them their very necessary iodine and other goodness that comes from fish. Cornell University Department of Animal Science You can use a fish oil as a supplement too. I do on the days that they don't eat fish. Some species of fish do not contain thiaminaze but it is difficult to get any straight, consistent information on that so far for me. As I understand it, fish oil is not a problem where thiaminaze is concerned. 

Egg shells, if they come from the grocery store..if they coat them in mineral oil (a petroleum product) should be boiled first. Then you can put them in the blender and turn them into a powder. You wouldn't have to do that. They can bite them up like they would if they stole some farmer's egg out of the coop. But to keep on hand, just in case you need a pinch, that's what I do. I do not rely on egg shells for their calcium but prefer to feed raw bones which have numerous other nutritional benefits, as well as the teeth cleaning aspect. 

Dog do not utilize vegetables for the most part. They do not have the stuff in the abundance omnivores have needed to break down those cell walls to utilize what's in veggies and fruits at least not very well. They can break down grains a little bit but no salivary amylaze, only a little in the pancreas. I prefer not to tax the pancreas. So because they can break carbs down to a degree, it does not mean they should have to or need to. That's my opinion though. You can research and decide. Personally, I would not rely on vegetables for calcium or anything. In fact, I do not even feed vegetables unless it's a hand-out for fun. Matisse likes to toss a piece of carrot into the air and fling it across many feet and go fetch. He can entertain himself this way. 

For making sure my dogs get a balanced diet, I feed them a pmr diet. Everything they need is in the variety of meat they get, liver and other organ meat alternated, (total 10% of their diet with 1/2 being liver and 1/2 other organ meat) raw chicken bones (you can use other bones too, just not weight bearing, heavy dense bones) I use pretty much mostly chicken bones because my dogs are tiny and this works best for them. So, 10% organ, 10% raw bones. And 80% meat. (varied) Sometimes I feed eggs too, once or twice a week typically on top of their meat. They don't need eggs but they're good for them too and they like them. 

Lots of people prefer cooking and that's okay too, though it can kill some of the beneficial properties of the food. I prefer feeding raw because it's less work for one thing. And dogs are equipped to eat it raw. And I'm careful to use clean technique...as careful as I am when preparing human's food. The dogs love it, they're healthy as can be and once into the routine, it's easy. And best of all, although human food can and does sometimes have a contamination problem, for the most part, it's safer than commercial dog food and I know what they're getting. I do not trust commercial dog food companies one little bit.


Of course, one whole sardine is too much for my wee ones so I cut these up into smaller chunks. But include it all. But a spoo could eat several of these for a meal. Nothing else is needed. Throw them out onto the lawn and let 'em have at it. (hopefully he won't roll in it. lol) Or feed in his bowl in a crate or on a towel if he's trained to stay put. Mine eat in their crates or outside if it's nice weather.

These are about 6" - 8" long. (maybe even sometimes 10") And fresh/frozen with innards and all.


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

Thanks so much PB, very helpful indeed! I am looking forward to rotating the little cisco fish into Puffy's diet once or twice a week now!

The rest of the info you provided is very helpful as well and I will take it into account with our feeding routines.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Let us know how he likes it and how everything works out.


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

I will post back here once we try it out. I can only imagine he will like it, he is not a picky eater, and will basically inhale anything that is "FOOD". One of his favorite words. His face lights up at the mention of it. And a new food like fresh little raw fish? Oh, he'll go bananas.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

If you are feeding bones at all you may not need another source of calcium - overall bone should be about 10%, and most RMBs are more like 30-40%. If you do decide to use eggshells a few minutes with a pestel and mortar saves buying a coffee grinder.

Your little fish sound perfect. I feed mine whole sprats, which are similar but smaller - they won't eat them rtaw, but like them sauteed in a bit of butter or oil (I know, spoilt dogs!). I do feed sardines occasionally - in tomato sauce quite often. Yes, they contain some salt, but I don't add any salt to any of their other meals so I doubt the occasional small dose does any harm.


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

If you're looking for a good source of phosphorous and calcium then raw green tripe is perfect. Not only is it a great source of probiotics and digestive enzymes, it has the perfect ratio of calcium to phosphorus - 1:1.
It also contains the essential fatty acids Linoleic and Linolenic and if you feed it in chunks, rather than ground, then the chewing helps with dental health.
It must be raw though, not cooked. Oh and be warned...it absolutely STINKS! But dogs can't seem to get enough of the stuff!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

The only thing that smells worse than raw green tripe is cooked green tripe - another reason to only feed it raw!


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

fjm said:


> The only thing that smells worse than raw green tripe is cooked green tripe - another reason to only feed it raw!


Ewww, the thought of cooking it makes me shudder!
I tend to feed it once or twice a week as that's about as much as I can stand the smell. I always give it partially frozen and tuck the dogs ears back into their collars so they don't get dangle in their food bowl and become 'contaminated'! I just can't understand how any creature on earth could find that smell appealing...


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/green_tripe_with_spleen_beef_strips_5_lb


Here's a place to get raw green tripe. I go for things that are as close as possible to the way they come off the cow. So it's not processed. Just vacuum packed. I should have gotten more because from PA she can't any longer ship the 4 day standard because it's getting too warm there apparently. So frozen stuff might thaw by the time it reaches me way over here on the left coast. I usually cut it up into small chunks and bag it and feed them a couple 2-3 chunks every meal. I love the stuff. But with only 10Lbs to last me all summer, I may have to reduce their intake of this. They love it and as it was described above, it's very healthy stuff for them, loaded with all kinds of wonderfulness. It does smell badly but I get use to it when I'm cutting and packaging it. It's not that big of a deal. It helps to cut it when it's half or a little more than half frozen.

Oh, and the nice thing about this is it comes with a little spleen attached because that's how it is anatomically. So there...you have some ready made organ meat. It gets cut off and packed separately and I label the bags.


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## JenniferinTexas (Feb 5, 2017)

I've been reading about the salmon as I have a lot of it. My dad goes to Alaska every summer to fish. I was told that it was ok as long as it's been frozen. Dang! I don't want to chance it.


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

I somehow missed the tripe conversation, but I just happend to revisit this thread and saw all of your good input. Thank you! I didn't realize it had the golden ratio of calcium to phosphorus. A magical food!

It does not smell very magical, for sure. I did and do get cow stomach on occasion. The first time I got it I made the mistake of cooking it like an idiot and the smell in the house was PUNISHING. lol. Oh man...I struggled through that one.


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

Jennifer, I am pretty sure that some parasites are killed by freezing and some dangerous ones are not. It depends on the original source of the salmon which dictates what types of parasites they may have. Sorry, I can't be more specific, but I hope that helps you.

If you want to feed it to your dog and are unsure, you could also just cook it. I am sure your doggy will not file a letter of complaint, and will still get many of the benefits of fresh salmon.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I skip salmon and feed fresh sardines from Taiwan. lol. They're frozen for a pretty long time before they eat them. They come frozen in fact. Here is some information on how this organism's m.o. is...very interesting actually. 

Salmon Poisoning Disease in Dogs | Causes & Prevention


https://oregonvma.org/care-health/dogs/salmon-poisoning-disease


Puff Daddy...be sure you're not feeding tripe that you find in the grocery stores for humans. It's been washed, bleached and basically rendered useless. It has to be _raw green tripe_ which is illegal to sell in human grocery stores so you won't find it there. It's not that easy to find in this form. Sometimes it's ground or canned but if it's canned, it's usually mixed with other things, including carrageenan. https://www.drweil.com/diet-nutrition/food-safety/is-carrageenan-safe/ This Hare Today... is the only place I've been able to find it in it's natural form. If anyone knows of another place, that would be most welcomed. I avoid feeding ground food for various reasons.


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

Thanks for posting that info here about the salmon parasite. It's terrifying to read! Fortunately, I don't think that we have that in Finland but it's good to know about and useful for people.

The tripe I have managed to get was specified for dogs. It is ground, but there is a limit to what you can get your hands on up here. I have been working the food system to the best of my abilities now that I am trying to go for a prey model diet. It's been a challenge to figure out where to get things because the selection is limited, especially when it comes to organ meat and other internal "obscurities".


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