# Sister and dad are against face shaving



## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

Consider using a #10 blade (or asking your groomer to). This leaves a close covering of short velvety fur. Food won't get caught in it and it will just look like your poodle has had a close shave that has grown out a bit. You will just need to have it redone slightly sooner than you would with a closer blade.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

There is not a problem with letting your dog's hair be a bit longer. It is really just about maintains and how you want your dog to look. I use a #10 on my dogs face, tail ect. But I consider that shaved... it is just a matter of what you like. The great thing about poodles is you can get a new dog every few months if you want to do them differant. Have fun and explore your options.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

I prefer a clipped face that's not clean-shaven (ie., down to the skin). I don't car for the fuzzy face look, and not just because they do get water and food in the hair and trail it all over the kitchen.  As for paws, I find it much easier to keep them clean when they're clipped (again, you don't have to go "tight"). When you see how much mud or snowballs they can get in the hair between the paw pads... 

As an example, here's Alex, his face clipped with a #15 blade as Zyrcona suggested. (I use a #10 on my silver/sable or light-colored poodles with sensitive skin.)


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## Dallasminis (Feb 6, 2011)

Rowan, I've been meaning to comment on your poodles...they are all so pretty, Alexander is especially majestic! You do an awesome job grooming them all!

As for fuzzy faces, I think males look cute in a mustache...


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

I keep my two girls' faces and feet shaved with a #10 blade. I like the look of it, and doing it every week keeps them accustomed to the sound and feel of the clippers right up close, and they're awesome at sitting quietly while being clipped. Using a #10 doesn't bother their skin...although they are blues so maybe not sensitive anyway.


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## Jovian (Dec 1, 2011)

I think any length is okay as long as his face is not bald. I'll try the #10 or #15 with the clippers. Both groomers we've tried don't want to groom him with scissors or clippers until his adult coat is coming through because they think grooming him too early (besides bathing and brushing) will damage his adult coat. One of them is fully booked anyway and the other does not use clippers, so I'm contemplating clipping him myself, although I'm scared I might mess it up. His coat is so long now that it'll be difficult to clip him without trimming his coat back with scissors first anyway. Might try it myself after the goomers snip his coat back, if they don't refuse that is.


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## muffin (Oct 15, 2011)

Jovian said:


> I think any length is okay as long as his face is not bald. I'll try the #10 or #15 with the clippers. Both groomers we've tried don't want to groom him with scissors or clippers until his adult coat is coming through because they think grooming him too early (besides bathing and brushing) will damage his adult coat. One of them is fully booked anyway and the other does not use clippers, so I'm contemplating clipping him myself, although I'm scared I might mess it up. His coat is so long now that it'll be difficult to clip him without trimming his coat back with scissors first anyway. Might try it myself after the goomers snip his coat back, if they don't refuse that is.


That's a bit odd that they won't use clippers on your puppy! I have never heard of grooming interfering with the adult coat, but then again I am still new to the poodle world! My groomer didn't want to do any intense clips for my poodle's first groom, but that's just because she wanted it to be more low stress to ease her into the process. She did shave her feet and face though.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

Jovian said:


> I think any length is okay as long as his face is not bald. I'll try the #10 or #15 with the clippers. Both groomers we've tried don't want to groom him with scissors or clippers until his adult coat is coming through because they think grooming him too early (besides bathing and brushing) will damage his adult coat. One of them is fully booked anyway and the other does not use clippers, so I'm contemplating clipping him myself, although I'm scared I might mess it up. His coat is so long now that it'll be difficult to clip him without trimming his coat back with scissors first anyway. Might try it myself after the goomers snip his coat back, if they don't refuse that is.


 Like everyone else said, the length of the coat on the muzzle is up to you...you certainly don't _have_ to shave it close. You could have your groomer use a #10 on it like the others said, or you could have your groomer use a #7 on the face. I've done that before, it leaves the face with some definite fuzz. Or, if that's still too short, leave a short "teddy bear" type face. I personally *hate* that look on poodles, especially ones with pretty, long faces (it never looks "round" and cute, just silly, IMO) but that's a personal preference, nothing says you can't. Although yes, that beard is going to pick up food and water and be a bit smelly. I let my poodle's "moustache" grow out a little bit not too long ago, and even though he only had about 1/2" of hair, maybe less, it still was gross. 

As far as your groomer's refusing to clip the coat...well, you need to find another groomer. There is absolutely no truth in what they are telling you. Clipping your puppy's coat is absolutely fine, you will do no damage to either the puppy or adult coat at all. As groomers, they should know that. I would recommend that you find another, better groomer (ask around, at vets, petstores, etc. If you see a dog that you like the haircut on, as who did it. Look up websites online...a lot of times, groomers will post pictures of their work there and you can see if you like their particular style.) and let them give your puppy his/her first (and probably second and third) haircut. That way, your puppy will learn to behave AND will get a nice haircut. Since you would be unsure of what you were doing and would probably be nervous, your puppy would pick up on that, which would make him behave pretty badly. With a confident groomer, most puppies learn pretty quickly what's expected of them. Once your pup is well-trained and knows how to behave, THEN you can start trying to learn how to groom him yourself. For one thing, having a dog that sits still is a big confidence booster in and of itself.   HTH!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I don't understand why a groomer would believe that grooming before 6 months would ruin his adult coat. That just does not make sense. I also would be looking for a new groomer - the two you spoke with don't seem knowlegeable about poodles. My groomer also breeds toys and see told me her puppies get groomed every week. I don't know exactly how old they are when she starts but I know it is very young. She likes short sessions to get the puppies use to the grooming procedure. A short but not shaven face is fine. I do think when your sister and dad see how difficult it will be to maintain clean feet without shaving them they may reconsider. I really appreciate you educating yourself about the needs of your poodle. Most people would just blindly accept what both their breeder and groomer tell them but you could tell it wasn't right. I am so glad you are there to look after Charlie.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

What is a good "water retriever dog" length and blade for top knot, coat, paws and tail? Those in Georgia are very short, with not much length at all on the head and none on the tail.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

One of the many nice things about the poodle hair is that you can do whatever you like to it, knowing that in 5 or 6 weeks, any "mistakes" can be corrected :smile:.

My poodle went from a completely fuzzy, unshaved "doodle" face, to a completely shaved face, to a half-shaved, half-moustache face (now).

I like the shaved face, because it makes it easier to keep his eyes clean. My S.O. likes the fuzzy face. So we compromised ... the groomer shaves around his eyes and about halfway down his muzzle, but leaves him a 'stache and a bit of a beard. 

Try different things and see what works!


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## Tymaca (Oct 13, 2011)

Jovian said:


> Hi,
> 
> My sister and Dad are adamently opposed to getting our poodle pup's face shaved, and to a lesser extent, getting his feet and tail shaved. Is it a necessity to have a poodle's face completely shaved? They said having the face hairs cut really short would be alright but not completely shaved off. Would leaving really short hair on the face make it harder to maintain? I know that food and stuff can get caught on there, but if it was left really short, would that be a problem?


My husband is the same way, as was I at first. Then the groomer shaved her face (it was way too short), but it "grew" on me. I finally started getting used to it, but I like it curly too. As for the feet, I am not a fan of the shaved long toe look, so I had the groomer clean up the bottoms/areas between the toes, but kept the top normal. I love her big round looking paws. I am sure I won't like it so much once the snow comes though!

I am learning that experimenting is fun, because it grows back fast! So, try new things and have fun. That is what I am doing.


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

You can leave a fuzzy face..water/food does get caught in it now and then.. I often have owners request the face clipped short but not shaved. The norm. is using a 10 blade on the face..and i'll sometimes do a 3 or 4 length and owners seem to like that.


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## Jovian (Dec 1, 2011)

I actually wanted the face clean shaved, but because of the opposition I faced I was forced to compromise. So instead I want the muzzle clipped as short as possible. My dad's taking him on a trip to a nearby groomers, they'll bathe him, brush him and de-mat his hair and maybe trim him, but they don't use clippers. I did manage to find another nearby groomer that does clip dogs and I've contacted them and I am awaiting their response to see if they're willing to clip Charlie. I told this groomer that clipping him won't damage his adult coat, so hopefully it'll be third time lucky. I want to get Charlie to still get clipped even if the other groomers do scissor him. I want Charlie to get used to the clippers, plus simply trimming his hair with scissors will only be a very short-term solution to the problem (I know clipping is also a temporary solution, but it's more efficient). But even a simple trim is better than nothing. Plus I think it'll make him easier to clip.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

You can have the face in whatever design you want. I have my Spoo with a very clean face, my OT/Mini I have had in "Japanese Style/Asian bear bear" & now she is in a PWD face BUT I have to let it grow out because I used a #9 & I should have only used a #4 or #5 but it looked too "unkempt" for my taste but this is competition we are talking about & I want to win so I will let her face grow out. As far as paws I find it totally untrue that more crud is dragged in. I had my Spoo with shaved paws but after my lst grooming compeition decided to go with full feet. Going on 5 months & still waiting for the hair to grow out to match his legs but it is slowly getting there. My Louisa has full feet for her PWD style already. You can go to my Facebook page & look at photo's since that is all I have on it KC Grooming & my icon is the Spoo jumping over my chocolate dog.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

*Aidan*

What a great pic! A Poodle that looks like a REAL dog.


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## Jovian (Dec 1, 2011)

My dad is still refusing to get him clipped. He not only thinks it'll spoil his coat, but it'll make him cold in the winter, but I see dogs with really short fur do just fine in winter plus we can leave his body clipped at 1 or 2 inches if necessary. I ordered a book on Amazon, if that does not convince him I don't know what will.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

Jovian said:


> My dad is still refusing to get him clipped. He not only thinks it'll spoil his coat, but it'll make him cold in the winter, but I see dogs with really short fur do just fine in winter plus we can leave his body clipped at 1 or 2 inches if necessary. I ordered a book on Amazon, if that does not convince him I don't know what will.


Which book did you order? Kalstone Poodle Grooming?
I rotate clips with the seasons. That's what makes poodle ownership so much fun!


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

The groomer is ignorant it will not damage the coat.. if it doesnt grow back then their is an underlying health condition. At worst it will clear a silver or other fading color sooner.

I start my pups at 4wks for faces a the least so they will be pros at it and they wont be stressed at having it done later. I nor my dogs like fuzzy faces.. it retains water and food longer which can develop mats that are not fun for the dog to have dematted. I agree they have stinkier faces then. My girls will lick their mouths a lot to push the long hairs out of their way, you can tell they only lick after eating after having their faces clipped. I clip faces and feet once a week or three lol.

Groomer's blade of choice is the 10 blade for the face but I like a cleaner face for my personal poodles. I personally like a poodle to look like a poodle. I think they are cute with round or clean feet altho I prefer clean feet becaue they DO drag in less stuff esp water after a rain. 

Also it is better to shave a puppy( I guess you have a young pup?) than to have someone rip mats out of them. This way you can start all over and the pup wont associate brushing and grooming with pain.. some dogs tolerate dematting very well and others just do not. Normally people with long hair will have more of an understanding. I do rec clipping face and feet at first to get the pup used to it as I have groomed poos that mom wanted the pup look longer and then later wished to have the clean face. Well it was stressful for both dog and groomer. Yes perhaps you think oh I never want it shaved, but then the dog develops mats on its face that have to be shaved. If its not used to the clippers around the muzzle it may struggle and get stressed that way.

Oh and coat should be mat/shedding hair free to keep a dog warm in the winter and cooler in the summer. I have seen clients bring in matted dogs thinking they would stay warm with it on if we left the matted coat on. An inch all over coat is plenty long ot keep them warm. They are not as fragile as some may think!


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

I can't imagine letting Bonzai's face grow out longer than three weeks, it would kill me. When I first got her I bathed her weekly and switched off clean face one week, clean feet the next week. I started with an Andis #15. When she was about 5 months I went down to a Buttercut #30. At 7 months I started using a #40 on just her whiskers, as those always grow back much faster than her fur. By 8 months I was using a #40 (i think its an Oster. I'm getting a Buttercut 40 for Christmas). I find 40s much faster and neater and have started using them around the nails of my client dogs to get rid of the most stubborn hairs. You have to use a really really Sharp one though, even a slightly dull one will give a light-colored dog reason to itch. 

I use a 30 on her tail, I've done a 40 before and she kept chomping at her rear end. 

OP, give your pup a nice meal of strong-smelling canned tripe (many private pet supply stores and boutiques carry it) or even a good bloody meal of raw ground turkey, then carry him/her over to your unsuspecting sister or dad for cuddles. When they're done dry-heaving you may never hear another argument against shaved faces again!


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

:amen: I love your style Funky! LOL! Im the same as you cant stand too fuzzy a face for too long. I just hope that the pup is one of those RARE dogs that will sit there and let you clip the face (or anything else for that matter) like you've been doing it for years. More likely than not it will be frighten for that vibrating clipper going anywhere near its face, and will struggle for even clipping under the eyes and being 6mons and a large almost adult size will not be fun for the dog or groomer, and may not be cheap for the owner. Time is money!

Its one thing to not take it to be professionally groomed for 6mon, but totally not responsible poodle ownership to not have the poor thing groomed at all by owner or anyone else for 6months... which it kind of sounds like. It saddens me because Im a groomer and I see it all the time. I hope there has been ear plucking/cleaning at home, nail trims, brushing coat, brushing teeth, and daily handling of feet, face, and rear area at the very least. Introduction to vibrating items to simulate the clippers that will be later used would be optimal.


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## Jovian (Dec 1, 2011)

FunkyPuppy said:


> OP, give your pup a nice meal of strong-smelling canned tripe (many private pet supply stores and boutiques carry it) or even a good bloody meal of raw ground turkey, then carry him/her over to your unsuspecting sister or dad for cuddles. When they're done dry-heaving you may never hear another argument against shaved faces again!


My dad will probably just be like, "oh, why did you let him eat THAT?" I agree that it's irresponsible to not get him groomed properly. Although his nails have been filed (but not clipped), he is bathed fortnightly and brushed daily, his ears have not been plucked and he's not gotten the chance to be groomed completely. Still my dad refuses to listen to a word I say. The so-called experts said it so that's that. He's made the assumption that these apparent experts can never be wrong and I'm the one who is ignorant.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I am hoping that with the brushing you actually have a COMB. Brushing is Very decieving & the topcoat can be brushed beautifully & then a solid mat at the skin. Peeled more than 1 dogs coat that way. A Comb won't lie to you. Have your Dad get on here or talk with other groomers.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

I think you and your dad have reached a stalemate. He may never agree with you (or even groomers), but you might be able to gain some neutral ground. If you can find a way to persuade him by letting him think it's HIS idea, you'll have won the battle, if not the war! :angel2:


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

I am linking you to an article I wrote about matted pets on my blog. The subject in the photos is a shih Tzu, but the next time I get a matted poodle puppy in, ill take photos and share those with you.

Matted Pets FunkyPuppy

If it were me, I would wait for dad to go out or take a nap and smuggle the puppy to a groomer. You have no idea the very real danger a freaked out small breed poodle can put himself into when introduced to grooming at such a late age. At best were talking a LIFETIME of fear and jumpy behavior. At worst, a dog that is kicked out of one salon after another for being too dangerous to himself and/or others to groom. Many times the latter end up requiring sedation and unattractive quickie shavedowns twice a year. It's expensive, borders on cruelty to the dog, who has NO IDEA what the heck is going on, and absolutely NEEDLESS. 

Please, for the sake of your dog and the sanity of the groomer who may someday have to "rehabilitate" him, GET HIM TO A GROOMER


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## Jovian (Dec 1, 2011)

Charlie has only ever been to a groomers once since we got him two months back, and he wasn't even shaved, clipped, ear hair plucked, nail clipped or trimmed. The breeder did not have him clipped, shaved or clipped either. He smelt nice and his coat was all lovely and fluffy and shiney and de-matted, but that lasted about a week until he went back to his scruffy self. He is going to a groomers tomorrow. Me and my sister persuaded my dad that he does need a trim, but they will NOT clip him, which defeats the purpose of getting him used to clippers. Dad still thinks cutting his coat too short will damage his adult coat and makes all these other excuses not to get him clipped, such as all the groomers are all booked up for Christmas. It looks like now though I'll have to wait until after Christmas, or even after the New Year until he gets clipped. Hopefully the job they do at the groomers tomorrow will keep his coat and his skin healthy until we can get him clipped, but looks like we're going to have to wait a few weeks at least now for him to get clipped. And I'm hoping they won't keep finding excuses to put off clipping him.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Why are groomers saying that clipping puppies too soon will ruin their adult coats?


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## Jovian (Dec 1, 2011)

Well, good news everyone. The book arrived today and I think I finally got dad to see things my way and it looks like he's going to get fully groomed tomorrow, although they want to keep his scruffy tail the way it is now, but I want a pompom on the tail. Is there any practical reason for the shaved tail and pompom that I can use to convince them? (I know mats on the tail is one issue and it might have to be clipped anyway). Either way, I'll post pics of him after it has been done. I'll suggest the lamb trim for him in winter and kennel clip in summer.

I also want to know why some groomers say that clipping puppies will ruin their adult coat.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Good for you and Charlie!

Send us a picture......


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## BigRedDog (Mar 2, 2011)

Believe me, I've seen everything done on a poodle, from full Teddy Bear face (like Bichon) to Schnauzer with eyebrows! I prefer the face shaved particularly when the dog has a beautiful refined muzzle shape. 
But, it's your dog..groom them the way you like them.
My dog is in a full lamb or modified puppy clip..we like fluff, so that's how we have her. I'ts work, but I don't care.:angel2:


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Thanks to Poodle Forum and the many discussions from everyone, I'm beginning to see that Poodles are the chameleons of the dog world with their lovely coats and effervescent personalities in small to large to extra large. They can be pretty much whatever we Poodle lovers decide we want them to be from one time to the next. And Poodles are so versatile that they can keep up with our many different ideas of them. That's pretty amazing for one breed of dog! 

The Pillow Poodle and the Show Ring Poodle are just two of many versions, and other people out there don't even know about the many wonderful things that a Poodle can be and already is. 

What a great secret we Poodle people have with us! :angel2:


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## Jovian (Dec 1, 2011)

Looks like everyone else wants the Retriever Clip done on Charlie, where he is clipped the same length all over his entire body, including his muzzle (which is left unshaven), with no pompom on the tail. Although it looks utilitarium and easy to maintain, I personally think the Retriever Clip looks hideous. Okay, maybe hideous is too strong of a word, but the dog is still left with a curly beard, albeit much shorter (but still looks like food can get trapped in there if you don't watch it). It looks like a labrador that's had a bad fur day. I much prefer the traditional poodle kennel clip and lamb trim for poodles, but that's my opinion.


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## catsaqqara (May 20, 2011)

I think the clip can be really cute, they look like stuffed animals. Usually whatever clip you have them in you end up liking if initially you don't. 

The tail doesn't have to have a shaved band but a sanitary should be done and the bottoms of the feet in between the pads should be clipped too, they most likely will by the groomer. Later on you can persuade your family to try what clip you like at least once. The best thing about them is you can change their clip as many times as you want, I've had Bambi In a lot of different clips.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Jovian said:


> Well, good news everyone. The book arrived today and I think I finally got dad to see things my way and it looks like he's going to get fully groomed tomorrow, although they want to keep his scruffy tail the way it is now, but I want a pompom on the tail. Is there any practical reason for the shaved tail and pompom that I can use to convince them? (I know mats on the tail is one issue and it might have to be clipped anyway). Either way, I'll post pics of him after it has been done. I'll suggest the lamb trim for him in winter and kennel clip in summer.
> 
> I also want to know why some groomers say that clipping puppies will ruin their adult coat.


I think the groomers are just misinformed. The groomers at work spit out things that have been dispelled by more advanced modern groomers, and most of the time instead of arguing or explaining things I let them think what they want since ir doesnt hurt the dog, unless they really feel they really wanna learn of course.

LOL I shouldnt say this, but I would probably have hacked areas out of the coat just so they would have to get the dog cut down so it wouldnt look so bad lol.

What kind of breeder would not give their pups their first haircuts? Wow, probably in it for the money.. I commend you Jovian for trying to do the best for your poodle! You will make a fine poodle owner(of your own) someday.:adore:


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## Jovian (Dec 1, 2011)

He was groomed this morning. He wasn't clipped but he had everything else done, and had a significant amount of hair chopped off with scissors. Despite me showing him the book where it says you had to groom poodles early and get them used to clippers, my dad still believes that clipping a puppy's coat too much will damage their adult coat. He lectured me how I should always listen to the experts and that I'm an idiot for trusting people on the internet, saying that they're not professional. Charlie still has a beard, but it's significantly shorter now than it was. Looks much better, but I still would have preferred that his face was shaved, but my siter and dad once again think it looks hideous and the fuzz is cute. I also wanted a pompom on his tail. He has a pretty curly tail, is it still possible to have pompom on it? What do you make of today's grooming session?


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

I agree with your father that everything on the internet might not be true, even though I use it. I still prefer hard copies like books. 

Poodle Forum is virtual information from the trenches, sometimes bringing up impromptu citings of specific articles to read. Charlie looks great and it's a step in the right direction! :angel2:


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

> Posted by *Jovian*:
> He was groomed this morning. He wasn't clipped but he had everything else done, and had a significant amount of hair chopped off with scissors. *Despite me showing him the book where it says you had to groom poodles early and get them used to clippers, my dad still believes that clipping a puppy's coat too much will damage their adult coat. He lectured me how I should always listen to the experts and that I'm an idiot for trusting people on the internet, saying that they're not professional.*...


Charlie is adorable but I prefer poodles with clean faces and paws. I'm not a fan of fuzzy faces or mustaches or the pseudo-schnauzer/bichon trims, etc. Give me 100% poodle, ala the Miami, Lamb, Euro T-Clip or the Scandinavian! 

I think he'd look fantastic in a lamb trim, but you will have to take baby steps to convince your father. Hey, why not invite him to join the forum! I can say with confidence you're not an idiot for trusting anyone on this forum as many of us have owned poodles for well over a decade. You learn a lot in that time! Yes, it's on your to verify what people are telling you but I happen to love research. Oh, and I can name at least five _professional _groomers on this forum alone, not to mention breeders who know a thing or two about Poodle Coats. 

Of interest, I Googled "will clipping a poodle puppy ruin its adult coat": 
http://www.dogster.com/answers/question/will_it_ruin_my_poodles_coat_if_i_cut_it_too_short-25725
http://www.poodleforum.com/9-poodle-grooming/11079-cutting-ruining-coat.html


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

To be brutally honest, I think you are making a huge mistake not getting the puppy used to clippers at a young age!

He looks cute and all, but it makes life SO much easier when they are used to clipping at a young age. It completely baffles me that a groomer would be so ignorant of this. I think that you need to find a new groomer. A basic feet, face and tail sanitary clip is necessary for a poodle...

It is completely irrational to say that clipping puppy hair will have anything to do with how the dog's hair turns out. It's HAIR. Just like ours. If it grows back different, it would have anyway. Poodle coat changes as they grow up. It becomes coarser and harsher. This happens around a year of age. Up until "coat change", the puppy coat will be the same. Then, at "coat change", the coat will change regardless of what you do.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> To be brutally honest, I think you are making a huge mistake not getting the puppy used to clippers at a young age!...It is completely irrational to say that clipping puppy hair will have anything to do with how the dog's hair turns out. It's HAIR. Just like ours.


QFT...

All of our poodles miraculously came through the experience with their coats intact.


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## Jovian (Dec 1, 2011)

I've done everything I can, but he won't listen to reason. He's going to have to live with the consequences of his inaction. I want to take Charlie away and raise him on my own, but that's not going to happen. Charlie won't be clipped until after Christmas at least now but hopefully it won't be too late once he finally gets clipped. I think the groomers made a questionable cause fallacy, assuming that because people clip their puppy's coat before their adult coat comes through, that's what causes the coat to change. Saying I should take what some sites say with a pinch of salt is one thing, but saying everybody on this forum is wrong is something else, especially since I've researched the subject and found no evidence of what these groomers claim, but he has no faith in anything I say. When I get my own poodle pup one day I won't make the same mistakes he did.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

My father and I never agreed on much of anything back when. Your dad might be moving in your and Charlie's direction as fast as he can. Give it some time and enjoy brushing Charlie's new hairdo!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

All very true!

Honestly, I am just frustrated with your groomer for spreading a fallacy!


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

Jovian said:


> I've done everything I can, but he won't listen to reason. He's going to have to live with the consequences of his inaction. I want to take Charlie away and raise him on my own, but that's not going to happen. Charlie won't be clipped until after Christmas at least now but hopefully it won't be too late once he finally gets clipped. I think the groomers made a questionable cause fallacy, assuming that because people clip their puppy's coat before their adult coat comes through, that's what causes the coat to change. Saying I should take what some sites say with a pinch of salt is one thing, but saying everybody on this forum is wrong is something else, especially since I've researched the subject and found no evidence of what these groomers claim, but he has no faith in anything I say. When I get my own poodle pup one day I won't make the same mistakes he did.


 Would it help if you told him that several of us on here ARE groomers, or as he calls us, "experts"? I am one of the groomers....tokipoke is as well, and I'm pretty sure CM does some of her own grooming. I know there are other groomers here too, I just can't recall their names. Oh, fluffyspoos (?) is one too. I think.  Maybe if you showed him some pictures of our work (with us in the background!)? No, you can't always trust what's on the internet...but you've gotten advice from poodle groomers and breeders and people who have owned poodles for years!! And we are all saying the same thing...if that doesn't convince someone, I don't know what will. Maybe talk to your groomers and change their minds?! I don't know...I'm just trying to throw ideas out, because Charlie REALLY needs to get used to grooming NOW! 6 months is way too old to be starting on grooming other than brushing and bathing...at this point, it's going to be harder on him than if he got started on clipping and scissoring at 2 months, earlier if possible. Some breeders start clipping their puppies faces and feet at like 4 wks. 

And I'm with CM..it's frustrating that your groomers are so misinformed!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

It must be so frustrating to know you are right and still have people ignore you. You can try to mitigate the damage. If you have an electric toothbrush use it around and near your dog, you can also do this with an electric razor so it least he is somewhat familiar with the noise. I have just the opposite philosophy for Swizzle and am trying to get him to the groomer as often as I can afford especially while he is young.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Jovian said:


> He was groomed this morning. He wasn't clipped but he had everything else done, and had a significant amount of hair chopped off with scissors. Despite me showing him the book where it says you had to groom poodles early and get them used to clippers, my dad still believes that clipping a puppy's coat too much will damage their adult coat. He lectured me how I should always listen to the experts and that I'm an idiot for trusting people on the internet, saying that they're not professional. Charlie still has a beard, but it's significantly shorter now than it was. Looks much better, but I still would have preferred that his face was shaved, but my siter and dad once again think it looks hideous and the fuzz is cute. I also wanted a pompom on his tail. He has a pretty curly tail, is it still possible to have pompom on it? What do you make of today's grooming session?


You are NOT an idiot! Im disgusted that your father would call you one, perhaps he is the idiot that doesnt see what a caring, intelligent kid he has. Most adults let alone teenagers(not sure how old you are) wouldnt bother learning about a pet before buying or to improve upon its care.:adore:

Well guess Im an expert, as I groom for a living and I do quite well at it. I also show my own poodle after learning quickly under a breeder's tutalage! Not only have I quickly singlehandedly titled her in AKC and UKC but she is almost finished with her AKC grand championship. First poodle ever competing in the AKC ring with professional handlers.

Not sure if it was the lighting but I think his head could look a lot better even in the style they have him in. Cant tell so much how even he is as he is laying down. I definitely like a clean face, esp since now he just looks like a doodle of some sort . Which is fine if he wasnt a poodle lol. Well for dogs with full tails they will end up looking more like a bottle brush than a pom pom, but still cute.

I hope he does well for the clipping, and doesnt get overly stressed out for it esp around the face as it can be dangerous for both groomer and dog. I agree with the electric toothbrush suggestiion. Here some of my credentials and a very blurry pic of a doodle I groomed lol. Oh and an even more blurry pic of his head lol.. a photographer I am not! This type of head is also known as a panda head.. on poodles. But Teddy bear head on other breeds lol. SOrry for the blurr but its the only doodle I have a pic of lol.. looks less blurry small... OH and I USED clippers on the dog too *snicker*


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think you are doing an excellent job in difficult circumstances, Jovian! If I were you, I wouldn't worry too much about the aesthetics of the clip just at the moment - it sounds as if you and your family are too far apart to agree on a look, and the dog does not care, as long as he is comfortable. I would follow CT Girl's advice, and get him used to the feel of something buzzing around his face and feet, and keep him well brushed and combed out, so that clipping does not frighten him when it eventually happens. I actually rather like the retriever clip, especially on a larger dog - it emphasises the dog over the frou frou - but if you are not keen then talk to the groomer about leaving a slightly longer top knot, etc, and gradually segue towards a kennel clip. Don't let it become a bone of contention in the family (!) - or spoil your shared enjoyment of a fabulous dog.

Are you taking him to puppy classes? It is always fun to see how quickly and happily poodles learn, leaving all the owners of other breeds open mouthed with envy!


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## Jovian (Dec 1, 2011)

A groomer I contacted said she'd be willing to clip Charlie, but she's all booked up till after Christmas anyhow. We have some clippers at home that we can get him used to (but it's for humans, not doggies). I guess I'm going to have to learn to like the retriever clip. Maybe it'll grow on me.


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

Jovian, it seems like you may not have much of a selection of professional groomers to choose from, have you considered learning to groom him yourself? There are several poodle owners who have chosen to learn to groom their own dogs on this forum. I've watched several evolve from insecure beginners to talented over-achievers (and some are just happy to know how to maintain face/feet/tail between grooms and do it well!). If you are interested in learning how to do it yourself, there is a wealth of information on this forum and plenty of advice offered free for the taking from several pro groomers.

If you have an interest, it sounds like your area could use a pro groomer that actually knows what she is talking about. You should consider it, you seem like the sort who could really excel!


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

Maybe you can ask your dad and sister that for Christmas... you'd like to see what Charlie would look like with a face shave resent:  . You can bargain that the rest of his body remain fluffy but just the face shaved. And more importantly, you can tell them that the hair GROWS BACK. Fluffy face on a poodle can be cute, but the shaved face really showcases their expression.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Happy New Year, Jovian and Charlie!

How are you all with Charlie's grooming? :act-up:


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## Jovian (Dec 1, 2011)

petitpie said:


> Happy New Year, Jovian and Charlie!
> 
> How are you all with Charlie's grooming? :act-up:


Well, it looks like my sister is finally warming to the idea of shaving his face. I don't know about my dad though, but he might admit it being a necessity. 

In less than two weeks after his groom, the hair was back in his eyes again. Sometimes he has to sit outside, because he gets too hot indoors (despite it being the middle of winter). Also, Charlie seems to think the clippers are a toy and tries to mouth them.


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## oceanrose (Sep 10, 2011)

My family has also been against face shaving, and I've been keeping my puppy's face longer. I'm comfortable with scissoring myself, and he looked really cute but it is more work. Today I ended up with an older clipper and on the advice of the people here shaved his face. Since I'd trim the hair every day he was used to me working around his eyes and it went well. I love it, the others aren't sure. We'll see how it grows out. But, in June, we're going on vacation for 3 weeks and I want him in an easily maintained trim for them. He has to be used to the grooming process. Trimming a longer face is really a big commitment, most aren't willing to do that, or comfortable with trimming by the eyes.


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## Markbthompson (May 24, 2012)

I keep mine long and scruffy, I didn't like the shaved muzzle and feet. Her beard is no trouble, I just brush it with a collapsing comb every 2-3 days when I brush her out. She is a standard and I lke her 2-3 inches long but she spends a lot of time running on the farm and DAD duties. In this cut people ask if she is a goldenoodle all the time though.


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