# I Need Advice!



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Dogs do what works and they need consistency. It sounds like your dog just needs more practice. A good, solid history of reinforcement (rewards that the dog LOVES) is what raises the odds that your dog will obey. If your dog did it right before but doesn't this time, it's not because he's stubborn. It's because there may not have been enough motivation for him in the past for long enough. Dogs aren't moral in our sense of the word. They don't do things because they "should" or because they are thinking all about how our brains work and what pleases us. They do what works for them. They're selfish but innocently so, but that's just how they are. No animal would survive if they didn't care about themselves. So make sure you find out what motivates your dog the most and make it easy for him to succeed. The more times he's reinforced, the more solid the behavior will become.

So, you may be asking too much too soon. Try going back to where the dog _was_ successful. Make sure what you're offering is more exciting than whatever is holding his attention. Work on an empty tummy when it's almost meal time. Make the treats varied and tastier. Use lower value for the things he does do well and has been for a while. Save the higher value for the more difficult things. 

Try not to ask for compliance when you think he's too engrossed in something in the environment. Start again in low distraction areas and gradually work up. Be sure you use reinforcers that the dog loves or it won't change behavior. 

Another common error is giving the verbal cue too soon before the dog has been offering the behavior regularly for quite a while. You don't want to tell him to do something and then he doesn't because that makes the cue meaningless. So, get the behavior going some other way and wait until later, then pair the cue with the behavior...while he's doing it. THEN when you think he's made the connection, you can try eliciting the behavior with the cue. Remember, they don't understand our verbal language until they've made an association with the behavior. So when people cue verbally too soon, they miss the association and the dog doesn't know what they mean. If he does not do it, you've moved ahead too soon. Go back a step and work there a little longer. For dancing up on the back legs, I just started out with music and dancing my own self and put my arm out and wiggled my fingers over their heads and when they would rear, I'd be sure to give the treat while they were up on their hind legs. Later, when they were doing that easily, I started saying, "dancy dance" in a playful, squeaky voice while they were up. Then later still, I tried getting them to do it with that verbal cue. If they didn't, I stopped using it and went back to my wiggling fingers and silly dancing my own self. lol. It gets them worked up and then they do it. Finally, they got so they knew what the verbal cue went with. 

Sometimes we think our dogs know something but they only know it in one kind of circumstance or scenario...context. They don't generalize behavior that well until they've had lots of practice. So, if your dog shakes hands in one room, he may not get what you mean in another....at first. If something else is going on that is distracting, he won't listen...not until he's had lots of practice. 

There's something called stimulus control. A dog might seem to know all these behaviors you mention but until they're on stimulus control, they don't _really_ know them. That means that they can perform them in all kinds of situations or locations under any circumstance. Until a behavior is put on stimulus control, the dog really isn't trained. They need to be able to separate out all the other behaviors they may be doing at the same time and realize those aren't the ones that are earning the reward. For instance, they shake hands and get a reward but they're also doing some other behaviors. Dogs are behaving all the time. lol. He may be sitting or wagging his tail or licking his lips or looking left. How does he know which behavior he just did that got him the reward? Until those other things are ruled out and it's consistently the one target behavior that is happening every single time and not one other behavior or another, he can't be sure. One time he may not be turning his head to the left so it isn't that one. Another time he may not be licking his lips so it's not that one. But it takes time, more or less with different dogs etc. So, he has to have lots of practice in various locations, contexts, later on...distractions to rule out anything else. AND the reward has to have been paired with that behavior and not confused with another behavior. Oy...I have a hard time explaining. And the pay off has to be worth it to him...not that he should do it because he loves you. People need to stop relying on that because dogs wind up getting punished because they didn't obey. And all along, they really didn't know what to do. 

Try working on fewer tricks or behaviors. I'd work on 2 or 3 for a while. Then incorporate some more.


----------



## Deblakeside (Oct 2, 2015)

*Me, too!*

I've only had Billy for 3 months ( he's 15 months old), and he's been learning commands quickly. He knows Come, Sit, Stay, Down, and he's been doing great with shake, dance, 360, and doing the little agility course I set up. We put in an invisible fence, and he learned the boundaries so fast I was amazed...but lately, like the past two weeks, he seems to be acting like a willful teenager! He only comes when he wants to, sits when he wants to, or it takes me giving the command at least three times ( and the third time my teacher voice emerges!) so is he going through a phase, or have I taught him only to listen to me when I get aggravated and serious? Did he learn these commands only to figure out how to outsmart me? Help!


----------



## kenzie14 (Feb 18, 2015)

Deblakeside said:


> I've only had Billy for 3 months ( he's 15 months old), and he's been learning commands quickly. He knows Come, Sit, Stay, Down, and he's been doing great with shake, dance, 360, and doing the little agility course I set up. We put in an invisible fence, and he learned the boundaries so fast I was amazed...but lately, like the past two weeks, he seems to be acting like a willful teenager! He only comes when he wants to, sits when he wants to, or it takes me giving the command at least three times ( and the third time my teacher voice emerges!) so is he going through a phase, or have I taught him only to listen to me when I get aggravated and serious? Did he learn these commands only to figure out how to outsmart me? Help!



I totally understand what you mean. That is the exact same problem I am having with George. I really like the advice Poodlebeguiled gave me. You should try it and see if it works for you. I know that I will definitely try it.


----------



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

> I've only had Billy for 3 months ( he's 15 months old), and he's been learning commands quickly. He knows Come, Sit, Stay, Down, and he's been doing great with shake, dance, 360, and doing the little agility course I set up. We put in an invisible fence, and he learned the boundaries so fast I was amazed...but lately, like the past two weeks, he seems to be acting like a willful teenager! He only comes when he wants to, sits when he wants to, or it takes me giving the command at least three times ( and the third time my teacher voice emerges!) so is he going through a phase, or have I taught him only to listen to me when I get aggravated and serious? Did he learn these commands only to figure out how to outsmart me? Help!



Don't use intimidation to make him obey because that spoils your relationship and you want your dog more engaged with you than ever at this stage where he's more motivated by something else than you. SO you have to become the most stupendously exciting, fun, high value treat dispenser ever...better than anything else that's going on. You can control the environment when you're practicing so make it easier for him to be reinforced so he can get reinforced a whole lot. That's what makes them repeat behaviors...consequences are the only thing that drives behavior. Sometimes we have to go back a few steps when they regress. It's absolutely normal for behaviors to regress and then you have a refresher course and a little time passes with more practice...sometimes changing things up a little and the next thing you know, they're back on track and even better than before. 

Try changing some things like locations, treats, the way you do things a little bit and see if you can get his attention back. Be really the coolest thing ever.


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Excellent advice from PBG - you may both find How to train your dog like a pro by Jean Donaldson helpful. She really spells out how to work through the three Ds - Distance, Duration and Distraction - and how to proof each step before progressing (it includes a useful dvd, too).


----------



## Summerhouse (Jun 12, 2015)

As an owner of miniature schnauzer who were bred to think for themselves and decide when to let owners know something was amiss on the farms I know exactly what you mean. 

He was terrible in the teenage months but once he reached 2 he settled down and started to take notice. 
When giving a command we still sometimes get the "whats in it for me? Hmm do I want to do that ?" type looks but lots of consistent practice works. Totally agree with Poodlebeguiled


----------



## mother4 (Jun 8, 2014)

*teenage!*



Summerhouse said:


> As an owner of miniature schnauzer who were bred to think for themselves and decide when to let owners know something was amiss on the farms I know exactly what you mean.
> 
> He was terrible in the teenage months but once he reached 2 he settled down and started to take notice.
> When giving a command we still sometimes get the "whats in it for me? Hmm do I want to do that ?" type looks but lots of consistent practice works. Totally agree with Poodlebeguiled


Glad to hear "teenage months" are a thing - I have noticed some improvement with my dog already at 19 months - hope 2 marks a real change for the better. As I keep reminding my DH he's miles better than our last dog, a lab, ever was. And I second that about high value treats - I can get an awful lot of really great stays etc with roast chicken.


----------



## Granberry (Nov 17, 2014)

With my pug, I figured out that I was repeating the command over and over so that he was learning that "sit" doesn't mean "sit"....rather, "sit sit sit sit sit sit" means "sit". Pugs are not as smart as poodles, I'm told, but the concept may be the same. I tried saying "sit", and then if he didn't, I would say "no" and frown, and then repeat the command "sit". If he did sit then, I would praise him like crazy. Maybe give that try?


----------



## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I have found that once the dog knows sit and stay, potty patch, which is all I really car about, they do not dance, or anything else.. I would say it 2 times, then I would say, "what did mommy tell you". They learned very quickly if I said that phrase, it meant better do it or not goodies. Then the rest of the time they did what I ask.They love chicken even better than cookies so that is what I use.

I did that so much, that now when Cayenne uses the potty patch both dogs come running and look at me, and I will say did Cayenne potty patch, and even Bella who goes outside and had never for 7 years done anything in the house, will run to the potty patch so I can see, then they get chicken. Cayenne does all the work, but Bella also gets rewarded, LOL


----------



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Oh, never mind. It's already covered.


----------

