# Obedience Class



## Spoos+Ponies (Mar 26, 2014)

So Magda and I have just begun Level 1 Obedience class. I'm having flashbacks to taking my other 2 spoos through this , in that they all seem to take even gentle corrections personally. You'll have to take my word for it, but I use a very mild collar (flat collar with partial choke chain) with mild corrections and lots of praise. I remember this before, as well, but all the joy seems to leave them, and they get sadder, and sadder and start to lag behind. The school I go to doesn't use treats, just praise and leash corrections. Yesterday, I decided to do our homework using treats and just verbal corrections, and it instantly brought the happiness back in her, and she seemed to be enjoying it. I've gone through 6 classes with different breeds. The german shepherd I had responded well to leash corrections, but the spoos just don't. Has anyone else had this experience? I'm wondering how she'll do in class when I don't get to use cheesey enticements : )


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

All dogs are not created equal, and nor are training techniques. If you find something that works then use that . My mini can take harsh corrections, treats guide her, prasie she gets way excited and doesn't concentrate. My toy responds to treats. My mini male pup can take some medium corrections, with treats to guide him.. too much praise and he gets squirreley lol. Mini bitch pup needs praise and treats, and gentle corrections until she figures out what you want. Mini bitch pet pup is as hard headed as mom and can take harsh corrections lol


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would find another class - why use methods that make her unhappy when you know there is a happier way that works?


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

Dogs have different personalities and temperaments. Some can deal with "corrections" and some can't. It's very possible to train a dog without aversives, though. I haven't used any sort of "leash corrections" or even harsh words with Sugarfoot; feel free to look at his 100 Days video to see how that worked out, and any of my latest videos to see him now. The worst he's experienced is "No!" when he tries to counter surf or trash pick. He works for treats, tugging, ball throwing, and praise. In training situations, he has a NRM (No-Reward-Marker): "Oopsie!" that means he didn't do something right and will need to try again. 

If your instructor won't work with you, even though it sounds like you have some experience...maybe not the right class for you.

--Q


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## Spoos+Ponies (Mar 26, 2014)

To be fair, I haven't suggested alternatives to my instructors. Just the last few days it's dawning on me that she may need a different method. I'll bring treats next class and see how it goes. She's so bright, and I think she'll be very successful. I'm also remembering that because the spoos are so smart, I need to do fewer reps than recommended. This happened with the others, too - they pick it up so quickly, too many repeats and they start to get bored. 

I checked out your video, Quossum. Loved it, thank you. That's what I want - enthusiasm while working.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

If the instructors at this facility have rules about no food rewards and won't be flexible I think I would try to find another place to train. I agree with others that not all dogs respond the same way to different methods. You need the class to give you the flexibility you need to find the right motivator for your dog. You are very right though about not doing too much drilling with a poodle, worse than just getting bored, Lily used to reinvent how she did things when too many repeats happened. I think she thought she was doing something wrong if I was still asking her for repeats.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

accepting that some dogs are not food motivated and may prefer a toy or a game of tug, nonetheless, i have to ask, what's the training theory behind no treats? or is it no rewards of any kind? just curious.


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## Spoos+Ponies (Mar 26, 2014)

I don't think treats are strictly forbidden (I guess I'll soon find out : )) just their general theory is leash correction and praise. I'm hoping they'll be reasonable. I think with the first 2 spoos I must've thought I was doing something incorrectly, since I hadn't had this problem with other dogs. Now, with Magda acting the same way, I'm beginning to see a trend. Switching classes for me is no simple thing...I'm a rotating shift worker, and have already taken several days of leave to make this class work. I'm planning to take Finn to an agility class in May and have had to book 6 vacation days, one for each of the 6 weeks. I'm quite comfortable with training, and Magda is extremely well-behaved at home. I'm mainly going there for socialization, honestly, since she spends so much time here at the farm.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

i suspected from your first post that just switching to another trainer might not be that simple for you. maybe a nice talk with the trainer trying to work something out that lets you remain in class without doing the leash correction part? from the little i've seen, administering leash correcting is a skill of timing and correct use of a "pop," so as not to squeeze the dog's throat or jerk it around by the throat. it isn't as easy as made out to be. on a sensitive dog, it might seem heavy-handed even if done totally correctly.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I took my first Papillon to a training class that at the time was the only game in town - I was inexperienced, and while I didn't much like some of the methods in the advanced classes felt the beginner class was safe enough. One exercise was to get the dog through half a dozen closely spaced weave poles - all the owners before me dragged, pushed or otherwise manhandled their dogs through, with some difficulty. I produced a treat and lured mine through in seconds. There was a mutter of "Is that allowed?!", to which the instructor replied "Of course!", and a huge sigh of relief went up from all the owners yet to attempt it as those with treats shared with those without. I stopped going when the stress caused by a few owners yelling at their dogs put a worried little frown between my dogs eyes, and I decided that although I could protect her from the aversive methods I could not protect her from the anxiety that permeated the class. Fortunately reward based classes were just getting established, and several started locally soon after - they were a revalation to both of us!


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## Spoos+Ponies (Mar 26, 2014)

Classes are going well. The instructors clarified their position, and they only recommend treats for the come exercise, and only to help place the dog in front of you. At home I use a lot of treats while training, and at class I wear a hoodie with a kangaroo pocket and just use the treats very discreetly.
Last week one of the instructors came up to me and asked if I'm planning to show her in obedience because she is 'so amazing!'. Yay. The socialization aspect is also improving, and I'm really enjoying working with her - she is just blooming into a lovely dog. 
Thanks for all of the good advice.


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## AngelAviary (Aug 12, 2014)

Glad to hear that you are "sneaking" treats. Stella is the type of dog that gets bored easily and I bring like 3 different treats to class to keep switching them up. I also us a hoodie with the pocket on the front. Our class encourages the use of treats, how else are you going to keep them interested and happy when you are just starting? The frequency of the treats slows down as the dog advances in training. If I am to "rough" "loud" or any way "unkind" in Stellas opinion she just shuts down. She will sit down and stare off into space unable (or unwilling) to respond to what I am trying to make her do. My trainer calls her a soft dog. Keep up the good work and keep having fun!


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

in this situation, after reading turid rugaas, i am inclined to think what we see as "shutting down" is actually meant to be a calming signal from the dog to us.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

When my old girl used to do that, we called it "going to her happy place...and we were not invited!" She required delicate handling to get the best performance out of her.


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## ROHAN-K9mm (Nov 20, 2011)

Little secret to share with you.. Trainers are not God. I trained my first Spoo- an almost feral stray I found at the humane society in 1978. I went to the only game in town -Koehler method, and did what I was told. My little stray finished first in the class, but at times I felt a lot of joy had left her during the process. She forgave me after 16 weeks of pretty harsh training, and at the final test she did her recall, 90 miles an hour, pluncked herself down in front of me correcty, jumped joyfully to kiss me and spun into heel position- before I asked her to- . and still beat all the GSD's to flinders.;-) Some dogs are hard, some are soft. Use your time in class the way you want to. You are paying for the time and space. If you can't get a refund, train the way you know is best for your dog, and ignore directives you do not agree on. Just remember High School, and be a little sneaky about it. Having other dogs who are under control [ more or less} and a safe place to work your dog is what you are getting for your $ and Ignore what you know is wrong for your dog.


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## Spoos+Ponies (Mar 26, 2014)

It's taken me about 6 different dogs to get it, but I agree with you. I think it helped that this is my 3rd spoo, but I just started to see similarities. Leash corrections made all 3 of them miserable, and they would get slower, and slower, and sadder and sadder. The class that we were teaching 'down' the method they use is to put the leash under your foot and pull until they go down. I tried that for about one second and then was like 'Nope, this won't work with her. I just used a treat, and pointed to the ground. No fight, no alarm...We had our last class yesterday, and we finished first in the class. The thing I was happiest about was that while we were sitting on the bleachers she was visiting with other people sitting there. That was the most comfortable she's been with strangers and was my goal - to help socialize her. 

An interesting thing was, the other day we were outside doing our homework and I put spoo #2 in the run while we did it. When we were finished, I switched them around to see how much Finn remembered from his class 3 years ago. He hadn't forgotten a thing, and heeled amazingly well, off leash. Even did the figure 8 (our nemesis : ) beautifully, right beside me, looking up at me the whole time. We almost never do much leashwork, living on the acreage, and that was the best heeling he's ever done. 

It must be like most things in life - listen to your instincts.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I am so glad to hear you figured out a way to make that class work for you on your terms. I am also glad you and your girl showed 'em what poodles are all about: smart, fast, fun to watch.

Congratulations and keep up the good work. Think about trying obedience or rally. Poodles always do nicely in performance sports. They are great breed ambassadors.


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## Spoos+Ponies (Mar 26, 2014)

I'm really enjoying the time with them. I signed Magda up for Level 2, and finn up for beginner agility. I was worried he was too laid back when we did flyball, but he did extremely well. I remember the first class, the instructor had said that it was a slow process and none of us could expect to have the box turn by the end of the class. About 3 classes in she coined the phrase 'poodle power' and last class he had his box turn. I think that is the beauty of the breed - laid back when you want them to be but they can rev up when they need to. It was fun, but the problem with all of these things is the time commitment with my job. Long commute and shift work. I've recently decided to take early retirement, so another year and a half, and I'll have tons of time to spend with the dogs and the horses. Can't wait. I want to have a bunch of letters after my dogs names, too ; )


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Spoos+Ponies it is great to hear that you have a plan for retiring soon, how nice will that be!

One of the main reasons I have been able to get as much done with my dogs is that there are lots of opportunities fairly close to home since I am in the NYC metro area. Also I have a pretty forgiving academic calendar based work schedule. I will be happy to retire to training my dogs and tending my chickens and my yard though. Sadly for me that is quite a way off in the future.

I hope you have fun and show off those poodle powers in your upcoming classes.


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## Spoos+Ponies (Mar 26, 2014)

So, Magda and I just started Level 2 obedience. It's so funny how you can feel a bit of a snag with training, and then, just now doing our homework, she was just super. It seems like they just need to think about it for a couple of days, and then - poof, they get it.

The only thing she's not crazy about is putting the plastic dumbbell in her mouth. The last time I did this was with my GSD, years ago - but I remember her being really cool with it. I've switched to a tug toy, just so she can get the idea. Anyone else have problems with the dumbbell?

Started agility with Finn this week, too. So much fun. Nice small class (3 dogs) who are all really keen - an aussie, and a springer spaniel. Finn's so quiet in the house, I sometimes worry he won't be 'up' enough for these classes, but he loved flyball, and was really enjoying the first agility class.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Quossum, OK, just watched Sugarfoot's 100 days video - impressive!!!!

I giggled for his automatic down on the table, he has an adorable down, 

You should be quite pleased with the work you've done, I plan on referencing your video for future work with my beasties. Thanks for sharing!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Spoos+Ponies said:


> So, Magda and I just started Level 2 obedience. It's so funny how you can feel a bit of a snag with training, and then, just now doing our homework, she was just super. It seems like they just need to think about it for a couple of days, and then - poof, they get it.
> 
> The only thing she's not crazy about is putting the plastic dumbbell in her mouth. The last time I did this was with my GSD, years ago - but I remember her being really cool with it. I've switched to a tug toy, just so she can get the idea. Anyone else have problems with the dumbbell?
> 
> Started agility with Finn this week, too. So much fun. Nice small class (3 dogs) who are all really keen - an aussie, and a springer spaniel. Finn's so quiet in the house, I sometimes worry he won't be 'up' enough for these classes, but he loved flyball, and was really enjoying the first agility class.


Since you won't want her to mouth the dumbbell make sure she is calm when you give it to her. Tug may or may not directly translate for the dumbbell since tug revs them up. You could try smearing something tasty on the dumbbell's bit to get her interested in taking it.


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## Spoos+Ponies (Mar 26, 2014)

Thanks, Catherine, we'll try that. Just got back and had a super class. I do love my poodles!


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## Tabatha (Apr 21, 2015)

Quossum said:


> ...I haven't used any sort of "leash corrections" or even harsh words with Sugarfoot; feel free to look at his 100 Days video to see how that worked out, and any of my latest videos to see him now.
> --Q


I see you took Susan Garrett's "It's Yer Choice" online course, I did as well! I use positive training with all the dogs I walk, it works.


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## maryano (Feb 20, 2015)

Every dog is different, not only that, there are also different ways on how to train your little pup-pups. Goodluck on training your puppy!


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