# MD general area mini poodle



## AexlBartine (Sep 2, 2021)

Hey!
First time post, hope this is in the correct spot.

My family has decided to get a puppy! My wife and I have a daughter (5) who just started kindergarten, and it is lonely around the house sometimes when she is gone! 

My wife grew up owning dogs. I did not, but am typically a quick study. 

I would be the main trainer/dog dad. I previously was a stay home dad, and in the future if I work it will most likely be remote. We currently live in an apartment, but are considering moving to the atl area sometime late this year/next year. We will most likely have a house when that happens! 

I would love advice on searching for breeders in the area, I'm fine with driving up to around 5-6 hours. 

My wife has requested that the dog not be white. From what I understand I think a male would be a slightly better fit for my family, please correct me if I'm wrong. I have just read that they can be slightly more mild temperamentally, and slightly less protective/picky(getting close to one person).

It would be ideal to find a puppy in the next few months, and we were looking around $2500, not sure if that is reasonable or not. We might be able to swing $3000. 

Please ask any questions that might help!

Alex


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

Welcome! Sounds like you have some excitement to come. You have found the place for all things poodle.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Hi and Welcome to PF!

Since this is something of a new experience for you. I'm going to add the full 101 course .

*We often hear from folks that they just want a pet.* What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that the kind of quality, conscientious breeders many of us prefer to support are _always_ breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions, but are flawless to us .

*It's not unusual to think that there are possibly thousands of breeders to choose from*. For quality, conscientious breeders, that number is more likely only in the hundreds in the US or Canada. A bottom line difference is between those who're breeding primarily for profit and those who're breeding because they feel not only love for poodles but an obligation to the entire breed. Each of their, usually infrequent, breedings are thoughtfully chosen to try to improve something in their lines and consequently the future of the breed.

*About reviews,* a happy owner doesn't necessarily mean an informed owner. It's as likely they've just been lucky, so far. Review any negative comments carefully, if they're allowed to appear.

*Getting a puppy from a quality, conscientious breeder is something like insurance*. Their investment in the health, welfare, and soundness of all the dogs in their care including the puppies they offer to new homes is part of the reason you're not likely to find a less than $2000 USD puppy from them.

The saying is "pay the breeder or pay the vet". Price alone isn't the only thing to separate quality breeders from those less than. We've seen members quote as high, and even much higher pricing for pups from parents not health tested, not proven to meet breed standards, sold as purebred when only a DNA test could determine that since they may be sold without registration papers.

If I knew the risks and have dedicated poodle health savings of several thousand dollars or pet insurance, knew that basically that the breeder and I would part ways as soon as the pup was in my hands because they're very unlikely to stand behind their pup and me thru the pups life, I might proceed with a breeder that doesn't meet my criteria.

But

I also wouldn't pay quality breeder prices, and over, unless I'm getting all the quality breeder perks.


*Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder.* The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

*Look for and verify OFA/CHIC level testing at a minimum.* There are also poodle specific DNA panels for those testable conditions. Those are companion testing with the OFA/CHIC testing.
Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)


*A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much to back it if *the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

*Read thru any contracts that may be listed. *If they rule out coverage for conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?

*Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times* and with pandemic puppy seekers, that wait is stretched well into 2021-2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs rather than keep a website updated.

*When you start making contacts, *let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.

*Color preferences are understandable but* keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies. That beautiful color you fell for may not look the same in a few weeks, or months, or years.

*Gender preferences* will also limit your options.

*Temperament and personality* are lifelong traits.

*Be prepared to spend *in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

*Be prepared to travel *outside your preferred area.

*As a very general rule, websites to be leery of* are those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience".

One additional caution, be very wary of those very cute short legged poodles. That's a genetic mutation which may carry serious life-altering disease.

*An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. *An online search for "Poodle Club of *___* (your city or state/province)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.


*As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, this is my shortlist criteria.*

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come.
Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is _well bred._


*Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time *

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards and are physically capable by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.

This is the longer version

Breeding Program
! to maintain, improve, strengthen the breed
by breeding to standard, for health and genetic diversity,
and will prove their dogs meet these standards by showing or competing in other activities or by breeding from titled parents.
It's not the title, but what it shows
! focus is on quality, never quantity
! they do not cross breed
! they limit breeding to one to two breeds
! they limit breeding to only a few litters per year *

Breeding Parents
! registry information available
AKC Registry Lookup
Dog Search
! not too old or young for breeding
! not overbred
see Asking questions from a breeder
and Frequency of Breeding a Bitch
! genetic health testing done appropriate to breed and variety
! other health testing by exam such as annual eye, hips, patellas
! results of testing on own website, OFA site or testing lab
see Health Related Publications - Versatility In Poodles, Inc.
and OFA Lookup Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO
Living Conditions
! in home with family
! breeder allows, even encourages home visits

Puppies
! routine and urgent vet care, immunizations, dewormings
! socialization
! first groomings
! registry papers
! puppies are not sold with full registration (breeding rights) simply for the price of admission
! they will not require spay/neuter before physical maturity
! health "guarantee" generally favors the breeder, not the buyer.
health guarantee is no replacement for health testing of dam and sire.
does the contract/guarantee/warranty rule out covering conditions the parents should have been tested for
do you fully understand the terms of any contract/guarantee/warranty and can you live with them
beginning housetraining is a bonus
temperament testing is helpful

Advertising
! individual website to detail history of breeder, goals for their program
! information on dams, sires, puppies
! no trend pricing for color, gender or size,
! no marketing gimmick terms like "teacup" "royal"

! Anything not found on a public online site should be provided by breeder before buying.

* Many people prefer small scale breeders because they feel the puppies will have better socialization and it's very unlikely to be a puppy mill-like operation.
This doesn't mean that larger scale breeders can't do things right.
The breeder of record may not be hands on with every pup or poodle on the place but they should make sure that all the quality of life and attention are paid to all their dogs.

If a breeder wants me to believe that they believe in their dogs, they won't stop the investment when it comes time to find the new families. If they want to cut costs by using free advertising sites like craigslist or listing on retail marketplaces like puppyspot or puppyfind, or other classified ad sites such as newspapers, I wonder what else they've cut costs on.









🐩 Breeders Listed by Location 🐩 Plus Additional Resources 🐩


GEOGRAPHICAL BREEDERS LIST AND ADDITIONAL RESOURCES PLEASE READ THIS FIRST What this list is NOT: This list is not an endorsement of any breeder by Poodle Forum This list is not a list to just go buy from without doing more investigation This list is not comprehensive What this list IS: This...




www.poodleforum.com


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## TK9NY (Jan 6, 2017)

The chances of finding a puppy from a good breeder that will be ready to go in the next few months is pretty slim, and it would literally be pure luck as you would have to find a breeder who either didn't fill the wait list (rare) OR had someone back out very last minute (also rare, but more likely).

Puppies are in pretty high demand, still, and poodles (especially minis) hit that it's-so-cute-and-fluffy-i-absolutely-need-it button so lots of breeders are filling their wait lists up fast and are planning into NEXT YEAR for litters. Especially considering how small most mini litters are compared to, say, standards (2-4 puppies as opposed to 4-8+). The breeders i got my standards from are taking deposits for litters they're planning for next SPRING - they're full up on the winter litters planned.

At this point i would focus less on finding a breeder who will have available puppies ASAP (or within a certain time frame) and focus more on finding a breeder who is doing the appropriate health testing AND producing dogs with good temperaments. I would anticipate there being a wait period, and would not bank on getting a puppy in the next few months TBH.

It's VERY important to get a puppy from a good breeder - especially when there is a child involved. You want this puppy to have a good healthy bloodline to reduce the risk of any genetic health problems that could be triggered/worsened by rougher play with a child. And you want this puppy to inherit a good temperament so it will tolerate a 5 YO (and friends) who may not be super gentle. I would also opt for a breeder producing minis in the larger range, again because of child. 

Your state or area may have a kennel club, or a Poodle club, so i would start there. AKC has listing of breeders by state, as well. I found my boys breeders using google (and a lot of patience). It might not hurt to ask around vets or groomers, as well, see if anyone knows of any local or nearby poodle breeders. 

What I look for in a breeder (i went to two different breeders for each of my standards):

Health testing: I don't mean vet checks, either. I mean official genetic examinations. OFA for hips/elbows/knees, eyes, heart, any breed specific disorders. If they advertise "health tested" ask for results, they should be willing/able to produce paper results OR information for you to look their dogs up online.
Health Guarantee: I had 4 days to get both my dogs to a vet to be checked after purchase, and a one week general health guarantee. If anything popped up that the vet determined was NOT my fault, she would replace puppy or pay the vet fees.
Genetic Health Guarantee: Both my dogs have a two year genetic guarantee. Normally, i would want to see 3 year minimum since official testing can't even be done until around two years.... but my dogs' parents' we're all health TESTED so the two year was acceptable. Anything under two years is laughable, IMO. You'll also want it to cover most, if not all, breed specific AND general/common genetic issues (like hips/elbows/knees, eyes, and so on).
Activity: While i no longer think all breeding dogs must be titled show dogs, i do believe that all breeding dogs should be doing SOMETHING to prove quality genes. Pets may be wonderful, but typically aren't breeding quality and may have physical or behavioral faults you DO NOT WANT. Both of my boys' breeders are active in show to a degree, but don't have titles on all dogs - instead, they do other things like TDI (therapy work) and temperament testing.

Beyond that, i want to see a breeder who is interested in my future plans with the dogs and puts pets on limited registration, spay/neuter agreements, etc to reduce the risk of buyers turning out to be puppy millers or BYBers looking for breeding dogs to profit off of. I want to see a breeder who know the standard, is at least somewhat involved in show OR work, and isn't producing dogs obviously outside the standard. I do not want to go to a breeder who is producing or allows buyers to produce "designer dogs" (IE doodles.)


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Super good advice above! I hope you’ll keep us posted on your puppy-finding journey. Such an exciting time.


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