# Intestinal blockage?



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I hope all goes well at the vet's - these things always seem to happen at the weekend?


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

Just got back from the vets. She didn't seem to think it was an intestinal blockage, not sure how she was so convinced but I trust her judgement (she said dark stools can be a normal occurance due to upset tummy and he wasn't in any pain when she examined him.) 
She did mention addisons and pancreatitis, so she's taken bloods. She definitely said she'll test for pancreatitis but I'm not sure if she's going to test for addisons or not. (I was a bit flustered and not in the best frame of mind when I got there because what should have been a 20 minute drive took 50 minutes thanks to roadworks, plus my phone has broken so I couldn't let them know I was running late, agghhhhh!).
It did occur to me though that Gunther is actually quite a sickly dog, he tends to suffer from bouts of sickness/diarrhoea every few months, so I think this is why she suspected possible pancreatitis. Another thing she noted was that his weight has been up and down in the last few months. He was 26kg in January, then he went up to 27.5kg in March and today he was back down to 26.4kg. His weight has always been very stable before so this did seem unusual.
I'm not at all experienced with doggy illnesses, Gunther is my first dog and I wasn't brought up around dogs so this past three years has been a steep learning curve for me (and I'm still learning!). 
Any way, I'm off to read up on pancreatitis and Addisons now (and probably scare myself to death.)


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## sunfunartist (Mar 24, 2017)

Did they check for worms? 


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

sunfunartist said:


> Did they check for worms?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


They did not mention worms. He last had his worming treatment 2 months ago. There isn't any sign of worms in his stools and he's not had diarrhoea.


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## sunfunartist (Mar 24, 2017)

I rescued a poodle, we too thought it was a internal blockage turned out to be worms. Always worth checking. 


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

sunfunartist said:


> I rescued a poodle, we too thought it was a internal blockage turned out to be worms. Always worth checking.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


It did cross my mind, but my worry is that giving him a worming table just in case, whilst he has a very sensitive tummy, may make matters worse, or he could just throw it up straight away before it has chance to take effect. He has basically been throwing up most meals within 4 or 5 hours of eating them, so I doubt he would keep it down. It's a difficult one, that's for sure!


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

Hope the testing shows what's up, it's easier once you know at least. I'm surprised they didn't do X-rays just in case, but I suppose they want to rule other things out first. My experience with pancreatitis is that it's very painful for them, hope you get some results soon.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Oh dear...I'm sorry poor Gunther is having such a time. I hope the vet can figure this out and find a workable treatment. I'm glad at least, that he's still feeling playful and not sick acting. I send you my very best that he'll be okay.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Did you bring in a poop sample for them to send to the lab? I would also want the to check for parasites just in case, especially if he does eat sticks, he could eat a contaminated one. 

I hope he doesn't have any serious disease but if it is pancreatitis, I did want to let you know that I had a tpoo with pancreatitis. I caused it allowing her to steal some of the cat kibble when she was young - didn't realize the high protein and fat in the cat food was unhealthy for a dog. She ate her dog food and just ate a little kibble - but enough to give her pancreatitis at a young age. When it happened I switched to home cooked food - and that dog lived till she was 18 years old. The only time she had pancreatic attacks was twice I fed her canned dog food. Up until her last year when arthritis and old age caught up with her, she was very healthy and active. While you hate for your dog to have this disease, I did find it easily manageable in my tpoo with diet alone.


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

I thought of Addison's when I read your original post, especially in light of the cyclical nature of his GI issues. It is certainly treatable if it is the case, and there are great FB and Yahoo groups for dog owners dealing with this. 

A friend's dog would have periodic blockages caused by eating hickory nuts in the back yard. They were marked by profound nausea and refusal of food and water.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

I am sorry you are going through this. I had was in a similar situation as you and also didn't have any dogs growing up. I got my first dog 9 years ago so I know that special bond you have with your first dog. 
I've researched pancreatitis for people and they give them digestive enzymes. Certain foods you can cook for them have natural digestive enzymes such as papayas. Usually, with pancreas issue, the weight is a decline rather than going up and down. I highly recommend probiotics even if your dog doesn't have digestion issues. It is really good for everything. I know the situation seems scary and especially after pancreatitis research but Skylar's post is really reassuring that the disease is manageable with some extra work. I would trust someone who has gone through it and the fact that the dog has lived until 18 is amazing. I was also thinking about Caddy's idea about x-rays to rule out other issues just to be sure. I hope the bloodwork comes back okay. You are a good doggy parent. You will get through this.


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

Caddy, yes I'm also surprised she didn't take X-rays. She seemed to think that because he wasn't showing any pain when she examined his tummy then it meant it wasn't a blockage...seemed a bit strange to me, but I'm one of those people that, in the moment, just blindly trusts the medical professional, especially as I consider myself pretty much devoid of all knowledge when it comes to these things. It's not until I get back home that I think 'hmmmm, maybe I should've insisted'. I think the fact that he is sick quite often may have led her to believe it's more likely pancreatitis. I guess if the blood tests come back clear then I'll request an X-ray if things haven't improved, but I'm guessing that'll be her next move any way.
Skylar, unfortunately I didn't have a sample I could've taken, although it did cross my mind, he's hardly pooed in the last 6 days so there wasn't a 'fresh' one available! 
Like you say, at least if it is pancreatitis then it's something I can control with diet. Better that then have a persistently sick dog and no answers. 
Thanks for the good wishes PB. He's been a bit down and quiet today, he's just been wretching like he wants to vomit but nothing's come up because he's not eaten. I'm just boiling up some chicken breasts for his tea, we'll see if he manages to keep them down. Like I say, he's been very up and down, one minute happy, the next minute depressed and a bit listless. Poor boy.
Snow, funnily enough I already give the dogs a probiotic supplement with their raw diet. I have done so for the past 6 months. I've just run out in the past week so you've reminded me that I need to order some more as I keep forgetting! I know some people don't believe in them, but they don't do any harm, so for what they cost I'll keep on giving them.
Verve, I've done some reading up on Addison's and some of the symptoms do seem to match up with what Gunther is going through, which is frightening. I'm trying not to think about it :-( You mentioned that your friend's dog would not drink or eat when he had a blockage. Thankfully Gunther is drinking plenty of water (which he isn't throwing up) but it is weird how occasionally he wants food, but other times he is completely devoid of appetite.
Thanks for all your input everybody, I'll keep you updated.


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## Cadency (Apr 4, 2017)

Oh dear, I am sorry to hear that Gunther is feeling so poorly. I hope that your vet will take x-rays sooner rather than later. I'm not an expert at all, but when I read that he does try to eat, but very little food makes it through to the waste elimination stage, I thought that the symptoms do seem to point to something, somewhere that is causing digestive "backup". 
I hope that whatever it is, you will get answers soon, and that it can be easily treated and resolved.


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

Well it's good and bad news. The good news is that the blood tests have come back clear, so the bad news is that I'm left wondering what it is that's causing him to be sick so often.
The vet blamed it on his raw diet, she believes that the raw diet is 'bad for dogs'. I get the same lecture every time about the 'dangers' of feeding raw. I just listen and nod politely.
Any way, I think I'm going to start keeping a food diary for him and see if it is a certain food that is triggering it. Maybe she is right, maybe raw is too rich for him. I won't give up on it just yet though. I'm sure if it was just caused by raw food in general then he'd be sick all the time and in a really bad state after being on raw for nearly 3 years, not just being sick every 3 or 4 months.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

I agree with you that it doesn't sound like the raw diet is to blame. Where in the UK do you go for food allergy testing? Sometimes they find something that doesn't show up in a food diary.


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

If your vet is convinced the raw is causing it, they won't be looking for anything else. I'd ask for X-rays or more testing.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think a food diary is a good idea. Are you feeding chunks or minces? I know Sophy reacts very badly to turkey, for example, and any mix that contained that might give her symptoms similar to those you are seeing. But I would not rule out Addisons, especially if your vet is quick to blame everything on the raw diet. It can be a difficult thing to diagnose at the best of times.


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

I am so sorry if any of you are eating whilst reading this...Gunther has just had a poo so I went out to check it and there are minuscule little white grainy things in it. I've attached a picture (sorry!). I went in my purse to grab a penny for size comparison and low and behold I found a one cent coin! I'm guessing it's parasites/worms then, does any body recognise this? I'm going to take it into the vets tomorrow.










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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Tapeworms? I'd get it to the vet asap.


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

Liz said:


> Tapeworms? I'd get it to the vet asap.


Yep, it's 7.45pm here so the vets have just shut, I'm taking it first thing tomorrow. He's up to date with worming and flea treatments, but I guess that doesn't guarantee anything.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

That's aggravating. Someone here will know why deworming meds fail. At least you know now what the cause is. Hopefully your vet has the good sense to be a little humble.


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

Liz said:


> That's aggravating. Someone here will know why deworming meds fail. At least you know now what the cause is. Hopefully your vet has the good sense to be a little humble.


It is aggravating and because I just made the presumption that it wasn't worms it meant that I didn't think to look more closely at his stools when he first came down with the sickness. It was only when someone mentioned it on here that I decided I'd better take a closer look just in case, but he didn't empty his bowels for several days so I had quite a wait! I'm kicking myself now! I'll wait for the vet to examine it tomorrow to determine exactly what it is, then they can prescribe the best course of action. It still doesn't answer the question as to why he seems to be quite a sickly dog in general.
Oh and as for being humble, I wouldn't be surprised if they say he caught the worms from the raw food!


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

At least now you know and it's treatable, I was glad I wasn't eating lunch! Lol


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

Caddy said:


> At least now you know and it's treatable, I was glad I wasn't eating lunch! Lol


Oh god I know, it's pretty gross. I've just had chicken and rice for my tea and I can't quite look at rice in the same way now...


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

UKpoodle said:


> Oh and as for being humble, I wouldn't be surprised if they say he caught the worms from the raw food!


Ugh, you are soo right. Anything to avoid the issue of why he didn't think to suspect worms.

And yes, it will be a few days before I can eat rice again


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Probably Tapeworms......caused by the ingestion of fleas. Pretty common but you must get rid of the fleas or it will be a continous problem. Is your dog on a monthly flea preventative? Sometimes they stop working and you have to change medications!


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

MollyMuiMa said:


> Probably Tapeworms......caused by the ingestion of fleas. Pretty common but you must get rid of the fleas or it will be a continous problem. Is your dog on a monthly flea preventative? Sometimes they stop working and you have to change medications!


Yes I treat the dogs every month with a spot on treatment, I have swapped brands a couple of times over the years as I'd also heard that fleas can become immune. I suppose that the flea treatment doesn't stop fleas from actually jumping on the dogs so maybe there's still a chance they could ingest some even if they're not infested.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Bad news.............there is a tape worm transmitted by raw meat it is called Echinococcus granulosus...not common but it is found in organ meats and variety meats and offal......it can be very bad! It is also zoonotic! Please read about it ..there is an excellent WikiPedia page on it!
I personally don't think it is a threat for people feeding 'inspected' or human grade raw but it is out there and you should know about it!!! 

P.S. Yeah I can just hear your Vet now!!!!!!! I feed raw too! LOL!


Look out you guys that have dogs that are around sheep poo! It seems once a sheep gets it it has it for life!


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

MollyMuiMa said:


> Bad news.............there is a tape worm transmitted by raw meat it is called Echinococcus granulosus...not common but it is found in organ meats and variety meats and offal......it can be very bad! It is also zoonotic! Please read about it ..there is an excellent WikiPedia page on it!
> I personally don't think it is a threat for people feeding 'inspected' or human grade raw but it is out there and you should know about it!!!
> 
> P.S. Yeah I can just hear your Vet now!!!!!!! I feed raw too! LOL!
> ...


Crikey, just read up on Echinococcus granulosus, sounds pretty frightening. I do feed human grade meat so don't think it is a risk and as it is a member of the tapeworm family it is killed by most common deworming tablets which contain Praziquantel.


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

I think life would be much easier if I just lied to my vet and told her I didn't feed raw. The lectures get tiring after a while! 
I often wonder how all those poor wolves and dingos must survive in the wild without any cooking equipment...maybe I should start a charity for them: The Royal Society for the provision of camping stoves for wild canines.


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## Cadency (Apr 4, 2017)

UKpoodle said:


> I think life would be much easier if I just lied to my vet and told her I didn't feed raw. The lectures get tiring after a while!
> I often wonder how all those poor wolves and dingos must survive in the wild without any cooking equipment...maybe I should start a charity for them: The Royal Society for the provision of camping stoves for wild canines.


LOL! 
Here's a thought: It would be quite a stretch for your vet to blame tapeworms on the raw diet. ;-)


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Cadency said:


> LOL!
> Here's a thought: It would be quite a stretch for your vet to blame tapeworms on the raw diet. ;-)


Here in Australia Vets like to sell expensive science diets that are profitable.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

UKpoodle said:


> I think life would be much easier if I just lied to my vet and told her I didn't feed raw. The lectures get tiring after a while!
> I often wonder how all those poor wolves and dingos must survive in the wild without any cooking equipment...maybe I should start a charity for them: The Royal Society for the provision of camping stoves for wild canines.


So glad you have finally found the problem. It is such a helpless feeling to have a sick dog and not know why. I am hoping for a swift resolution to the problem with minimal blame by the vet.

I sure wish I could send my vet to you for a short while. He is so supportive and open minded. I am lucky to have him.

Oh, and thanks for the interesting diagnostic picture.......the things we do for our kids!

Cathy


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

Turns out it wasn't tapeworm. The vet was stumped, she said it was too small to be tapeworm and it looked more like eggs. She even got her big book of parasites out but couldn't find anything! Anyway she's given him a prescription wormer that kills all parasites and suggested that I treat him once a month because he's on a raw diet so is more prone to catching these things (surprise,surprise!). I feed him frozen, human grade meat so I can't imagine it comes infested with parasites.
I am still not discounting Addison's or even pancreatitis due to his susceptibility to regular vomiting/diarrhoea and she did not want to rule it out completely either, so I next time he is ill I will look into more in depth testing.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Tape works will literally move. I had tape worm once and it freaked me out. Perhaps he ate some grass or debris outside?


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

I hope the dewormer works.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Boy, that vet sure isn't giving up on the food thing is she? No surprise!

Hope the wormer works quickly and he gets his energy and wellbeing back quickly.

Cathy


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

That picture you posted doesn't look like a tape worm to me or any worm I know of...not that I'm a worm expert. It looks like a root of some plant...a hunk of some kind of thing from under the ground surface that he may have pulled out and eaten. Do these "worms" move? But the fact that he's throwing up and diarrhea doesn't add up to eating plant matter if he's gotten it out by now. Hmmm. Well, if it is worms, and the worming meds are effective, he should stop with the throwing up and diarrhea after the meds are out of his system. If not, I'd find another vet and keep pursuing the Addison's or pancreatitis possibility. Let's hope it's some kind of parasite actually...that is killed by the medicine. Keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best outcome.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Ewwww....I just looked again. The clumpy thing doesn't look like a worm but over to the right I see those things that look like tape worm segments...rice looking things. And down to the bottom of the picture, one long thready looking thing. Would that be some other kind of worm? Or a plant matter thing? Oh gosh, those are some nasty looking ingredients. Oy. Keep us posted on how he's doing.


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Ewwww....I just loyoked again. The clumpy thing doesn't look like a worm but over to the right I see those things that look like tape worm segments...rice looking things. And down to the bottom of the picture, one long thready looking thing. Would that be some other kind of worm? Or a plant matter thing? Oh gosh, those are some nasty looking ingredients. Oy. Keep us posted on how he's doing.


All the long stringy bits are just the grass from the garden that came up with the poo when I scooped it up. It was the white grainy bits that concerned me. They weren't moving and all seemed to be identical. The vet did think they might be eggs. 
Funnily enough he hasn't been sick these past two days and he's definitely got his appetite back. If it was a parasite that was causing it then wouldn't he be continuously sick until the meds kicked in? 
I don't know, I'm just going round in circles here :confused3:
Snow: he has been eating grass, but not for the past few days. When the vet said they almost looked like fly eggs I did ask if it's possible he could have just eaten them from the grass, but she said they would have been digested. It's like something's laid eggs in his intestines.


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

It's been many years since I have seen tapeworms, but the rice things looked like tapeworms to me. They break off in segments of about that size. 

Freezing meat should take care of a lot of issues. 

I would try to rule out AD given the cyclic nature of his symptoms. The definitive test is the ACTH stim test. Others may be able to speak to how sensitive and specific bloodwork is for AD. What sometimes happens is that a dog is treated for GI issues with sub-q fluids, and the electrolytes appear normal on bloodwork because of the sub-q fluids.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

How quickly did you pick up the poop?


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

Liz said:


> How quickly did you pick up the poop?


I picked it up within 2 minutes. The vet asked the same question as she thought the eggs could have been laid in there afterwards. They also couldn't have come up from the grass as they were actually inside the poo.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

snow0160 said:


> Tape works will literally move. I had tape worm once and it freaked me out. Perhaps he ate some grass or debris outside?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




I wanted to clarify that by "I had tape worm" I meant my dog lol


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

snow0160 said:


> I wanted to clarify that by "I had tape worm" I meant my dog lol


hahaha


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

snow0160 said:


> I wanted to clarify that by "I had tape worm" I meant my dog lol


Yeah I did wonder!


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Yeah I reread that and was like hmmm that didn't sound right lol


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

snow0160 said:


> I wanted to clarify that by "I had tape worm" I meant my dog lol


A good way to lose weight!
Eric.


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

Me too! Thanks for the clarification snow, lol.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

ericwd9 said:


> A good way to lose weight!
> Eric.




The only diet I haven't tried. [emoji38]


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