# Dual sired litter



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Yeah, it's a legitimate thing! I know nothing more than that, though LOL I think a few members have dogs from dual-sired litters.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

scooterscout99 said:


> Is this a thing? I’ve only been surfing poodle breeder websites for a couple of years but this is a first. It is listed as a planned litter at the bottom of the linked site.
> 
> It seems to me that this is fraught with problems, including the need to genetically test each pup for parentage.
> 
> ...


That is odd. Is this an oops accident that they decided to market as an advantage? Or is this a planned event because it's the dog's last litter and they couldn't choose between either sire so decided to use both? DNA testing will easily elucidate who the father is.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

My breeder is thinking of doing a dual bred litter. I believe that the dogs have to be dna tested to be registered.
I haven't talked with her much on it but I believe they want to see what each stud turns out with a certain bitch but don't want to have to wait or maybe the bitch is on her last litter.
No guarantees of course to get puppies from both sires, it may be all one or the other, or a mix


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## scooterscout99 (Dec 3, 2015)

Mysticrealm said:


> My breeder is thinking of doing a dual bred litter. I believe that the dogs have to be dna tested to be registered.
> I haven't talked with her much on it but I believe they want to see what each stud turns out with a certain bitch but don't want to have to wait or maybe the bitch is on her last litter.
> No guarantees of course to get puppies from both sires, it may be all one or the other, or a mix


Thank-you. I wouldn’t have thought of that.


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

From a human morality point of view, I find a threesome between dogs repulsive. So now that I got that out of the way, dogs aren't human and this form of their reproducing has been common for eons. 

Despite this, that dual breeding plan was quite a surprise. Just what will breeders come up with next?

On the other hand, the science lover in me is intrigued, and can see some value to doing this with dogs that typically have large litters. 

Say for example you have an awesome female, and wonder how the pups would be from awesome Dog A and awesome Dog B. Instead of having two separate breedings, which could take a year if you're kind enough to allow her rest between heats, you breed her with both simultaneously. 

The _number_ of pups sired by either A or B could be random, *or* could indicate higher fertility/ sperm motility by the one producing the most pups. This is also nice to know, especially if there's a big age difference between the sires.

I think the main advantage is finding out whether A or B with your female produces pups that conform best to the standard and you don't have to wait for two litters, and save a lot of time. 

And, if both A & B throw really nice pups, this could also give the breeder more diversity in their breeding program.

It's an idea that I'll have to think about; it doesn't seem respectful to the female, but again, that's my human feelings projected on the female dog.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

I am laughing picturing a poodle threesome! LOL I don't think it goes like that; I'm thinking the bitch was artificially inseminated.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Arreau did a dual sired litter a couple of years ago and yes every pup had to be DNA'd. I believe she did it so she could see if a loved male she had was shooting blanks, and yet used her other sire so she wouldn't lose the opportuity to breed this particular Dam. If I remember correctly it turned out the 'other' male was Daddy to the whole litter, so it was sad that her boy wasn't potent, but good in that she was able to get a litter from the breeding! Maybe she'll see this and chime in!

EDIT:
I looked back and it was a breeding in 2014 of her beautiful girl Cayenne (her 1st litter in fact!) and her boys Flynn and Quincy........ Flynn at the time was 6 years old and had never sired a litter while handsome Quincy was already a proven stud!!! & Yes Quincy was the Daddy of the whole litter!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Molly is right, Arreau did a dual sired litter. And I think the rationale of taking advantage of the heat cycle to get a litter and test (possibly) the fertility of one of the males can be a reason for doing it. It is most likely that at least one of the "breedings" was an artificial insemination, no threesomes (which sounds likely to be pretty dangerous for the boys).


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

That was fascinating; I found two of Arreau's posts here and here. It was smart too and as Molly said, produced a dozen nice pups and ruled out an infertile male.


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## Moni (May 8, 2018)

My last Dalmatian was from a dual sired litter. Because the sires were brothers it was particularly interesting. The litter had to be DNA tested anyway because they were LUA Dalmatians. It was to make sure that the litter takes, since one of the sires was frozen semen only. We waited anxiously for the DNA test - turned out all 6 pups were pupsicles - and the fresh donation didn't sire a single dog...


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## scooterscout99 (Dec 3, 2015)

Thanks, everyone. Put in terms of unknown stud fertility, this scenario makes sense. I admit to thinking it was a science experiment gone wrong, expecting a litter to produce 50/50 progeny of each sire. The examples given here are excellent illustrations of the potential benefits.


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## spicandspan (Apr 21, 2018)

Growing up my family had two littermates who we suspect were dual sired, as they were very different in appearance. The mom was a lovely Malamute. One of our pups, named Jack, was gorgeous, very Malamute-like in appearance, matured to over 100 lb. He was light grey and had a very spitz-like appearance with pointed ears and curved plumy tail. His sister Nell appeared to be a Heinz 57 that may have included Border Collie and Blue Heeler. She was about 55 lb, black with white markings and had floppy ears and a straight tail. Jack and Nell each had a 'twin' of the opposite gender. Nell was the smallest of the litter.

I wish DNA testing had been available when they were alive - would love to see what breeds were in there.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

The entire experience was fascinating and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I had so hoped for Flynn puppies, but it was a relief to finally say enough is enough and stop hoping and trying with him. His swimmers from the first AI had a day and a half to get to where they needed to get before the second AI with his semen and live cover with Quincy. We had tried to breed him various ways prior to this particular attempt, but always on girls who had not been progesterone tested, so, may have been the wrong day, blah, blah, blah...This breeding assured me that Flynn was just not meant to be a part of our program. The puppies and Mother and both potential Dads have to have DNA done to prove parentage, but the same lab who does the diversity testing does this for 
$400 for the entire family. All in all, a good experience that I'd repeat if I felt it necessary.


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

My Luna is the result of a duel sired litter - or shall I say an “attempt” at a duel sired litter since all of the puppies in the litter were from one sire. It is a very costly endeavor and not one to be taken lightly. In our case it was very well thought out, well planned litter. No accident or oversight was made. I knew it would be a duel sire months before the breeding took place, as I was on the waiting list for a long time. However I do believe that some breeders end up forced to do a duel sire due to accidents. And some unethical ones won’t even claim duel sire after an oops. Just be careful if you are considering a duel sire litter. Make sure that it is well thought out and find out the exact reasons for doing it from the breeder. If I didn’t agree with the reasons or they were too vague then I would steer clear.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

I thought Luna's litter was dual-sired. I forget, is she Owen's or Micah's baby?


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

zooeysmom said:


> I thought Luna's litter was dual-sired. I forget, is she Owen's or Micah's baby?


Owen ended up the daddy of the whole litter. ?


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