# Hello from Las Vegas! Pls advice on BREEDER & PRICING!!



## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Hi Achala! Welcome!

How exciting that you are about to bring a puppy into your family. Is the little one pictured on that website your potential puppy?

I can't say about the price - though it is great that the breeder guarantees health and genetic testing of the parents.

To me, $2250 sounds a bit high of a price, but then again, maybe it is in the normal price range for your area. Maybe if you google some other breeders in the area and see if you can get a sense of what the going rates are? Be sure to compare breeders of the same quality though. I wouldn't think a high quality puppy would be priced below $1000 - $1500 for example, so a much lower price would send up a possible red flag to me.

Good luck!


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## sophie anne (Feb 17, 2015)

Ash's Mystical Poodles is a higher-volume breeder than I was comfortable with when I was looking for my mini girl. They have all three sizes of poodles, a lot of dogs listed on the website, and multiple litters on the ground at any given time, so I worried that a pup from Ash's would not get as much in-home socialization and one-on-one attention as one from a smaller-scale breeder. Since the specific personality of my pup was very important to me, I needed a breeder that was going to spend a lot of time getting to know every pup in a litter.

Also, the way the website is laid out and worded is a bit strange- they have an "ordering" page, which makes it feel like you're buying a product and not so much bringing home a living, feeling being.

You need to double check that the testing the breeder lists as having been done on parents has _actually been done_. You can do this by asking the breeder to provide documentation, or by looking it up yourself on offa.org.

My mini has Ash's Mystical in her lines and I believe that some forum members have standards from their breeding partner, Eriand poodles. I'm inclined to think that they have nice dogs, but I would definitely ask about how much human interaction the puppies get before they come home.

The price sounds within the realm of reason for a spoo with health-tested parents to me. I'd say anything in the $1600-2500 range is fairly typical for the miniature poodles I looked at; not quite sure what the 'average' is for a standard but I'd expect it to be similar.

Try a forum search for "mystical," "ash's" and "ash's mystical" and see what that turns up.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

My general impression has been that standards tend to be more expensive than minis. Health-tested minis in my area seem to be mostly in the 1500-2000 range, so I can see a standard landing at 2250.

I second the suggestion that you look up the parent dogs on offa.org to see the health testing results yourself. Also, personally, I prefer a lifetime genetic health guarantee rather than one limited at 2 or 3 years, mostly because there are quite a few genetic diseases (like PRA, a common one in poodles) that wouldn't show up until after that age. I get limiting something like hip issues since those can occur from an injury rather than bad genes, but in general they should be able to guarantee a lifetime free of genetic disease if the parents are tested clear anyway.

As a side note, it has always annoyed me that breeders aren't more upfront about pricing. I understand that it varies and nobody wants to make puppy-buying feel too transactional, but it is still frustrating not to have a real sense of what it might cost going in.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

While I don't have any information about this specific breeder there is one thing that I noticed on her "Ordering a Poodle" page which concerns me. 

Here is the quote.

"Many people also consider purchasing a pup only by sex: the female being a better family pet is a myth. In fact males that are neutered early in life (normally 5 months or before) make the best pet for a family with young children. They are more committed to the family, much cleaner, don't have mood swings, quicker to train and more loving. Many people mistakenly reject a male, fearing it will lift its leg all over their house. If the male is neutered early and is an "it" and will not knowing what it is like to have testosterone flowing, which is what makes a male dog mark his territory or leave his scent for other dogs."

What concerns me here is her comments about early neutering.

Current science says that is NOT good idea as their bone structure is not completely formed at an early age and needs yhe hormones for proper development, there are other issues with early spay/neuter too.

It would concern me if her contract required you to spay/neuter at a very young age. Be sure to discuss this with her.

I hope you find the poodle of your dreams for your family. They are incredible family members!

Viking Queen


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

If I lived in Vegas and looking for a standard, Desert Reef Poodles would be my breeder of choice. They are in St. George Utah, which is not that far from Vegas. She has some beautiful pups on the ground right now. Desert Reef Poodles. Good luck in your search!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Just looking at the website, they seem like a very experienced show breeder who does all of the appropriate health testing and care very much about conformation. Cannot speak about them specifically, but personally I prefer to patronize those who have risen to the top of their field by spending decades perfecting the breed to their vision. For those who want to actually effect change for the better in a breed it is necessary to have a large number of dogs to work with. But owning a large number of dogs does not by any means mean that the dogs are neglected, not socialized, or not cared for. 
When a person decided to make a career in dog breeding it meant that they are devoting them-self full time to the pursuit - the 50 or more hours a week that another might devote to an outside career, they are devoting to dogs. And if it is big enough, there are handlers, kennel help, groomers, and protégés to be had. There are also co-owner ships, and all kinds of arrangements that make a breeder's number of dogs appear much greater than what they have on premises. 
I think to assume that a larger scale breeder does not spend quality time with and know their dogs and puppies is nothing more than a figment of some bodies imagination. I can imagine for example that a small hobby breeder who has 4 dogs in their home may also have a job where they spend 50 hours a week working hard, and with an hour commute each way come home exhausted with very little attention to give to their dogs at the end of the day. Their weekends may be filled with running errands, housekeeping chores, and chauffeuring the kids around, again leaving them little time and energy for their dogs, much less a litter of puppies. Take each breeder as an individual, do not lump them into a category and assume that all members of that category share the same qualities positive or negative. There are wonderful large scale breeders and there are wonderful hobby breeders.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Oh and as far as price goes - it may be a a few hundred dollars over the average, but I would never let that deter me from getting the right dog - the initial purchase price is such a mere drop in the bucket of what you will spend on your dog over it's lifetime that it is meaningless. But finding the RIGHT dog to share your life (and will spend those truckloads of cash caring for), that means everything!


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

I would go visit the puppy and breeder and then go with your gut instinct. I've never read anything bad about this breeder, and the price is in line with other top show breeders. I'm excited for you!


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Viking Queen said:


> "Many people also consider purchasing a pup only by sex: the female being a better family pet is a myth. In fact males that are neutered early in life (normally 5 months or before) make the best pet for a family with young children. They are more committed to the family, much cleaner, don't have mood swings, quicker to train and more loving. Many people mistakenly reject a male, fearing it will lift its leg all over their house. If the male is neutered early and is an "it" and will not knowing what it is like to have testosterone flowing, which is what makes a male dog mark his territory or leave his scent for other dogs."


I've seen this quote way too many times on breeders' websites for all breeds of dogs. Males are "much cleaner?" LMAO Don't think so. I prefer girls, but I can see the appeal of the happy-go-lucky boys as well.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

zooeysmom said:


> I've seen this quote way too many times on breeders' websites for all breeds of dogs. Males are "much cleaner?" LMAO Don't think so. I prefer girls, but I can see the appeal of the happy-go-lucky boys as well.



Well ya know they have to advocate for the boys a little because 9 out of ten calls that they get are for girls - but Mother Nature pretty much gives them equal numbers of each


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

well girls do go into heat. of course, from what i've read here, many boys do pee themselves - more likely to happen with a poodle that is kept in a longer cut, though.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Well ya know they have to advocate for the boys a little because 9 out of ten calls that they get are for girls - but Mother Nature pretty much gives them equal numbers of each


Exactly 



patk said:


> well girls do go into heat. of course, from what i've read here, many boys do pee themselves - more likely to happen with a poodle that is kept in a longer cut, though.


Yes, but a pet girl will probably have at most one heat before being spayed.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

patk said:


> well girls do go into heat. of course, from what i've read here, many boys do pee themselves - more likely to happen with a poodle that is kept in a longer cut, though.



Well I could never have a boy because we use pee pads, but it seems that boys getting their front leg wet seems to be a pretty common problem among poodles. Years ago at the dog gym we went to there was an ice white boy who was kept in a Conti, all brushed out nicely, so you know his parents cared about how he looked, but his entire chest was stained yellow from pee stains, it looked horrible!


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

The breeder sounds perfect, but I also think you should visit with her in person. That way, you can get a better feeling about everything, and you would get to visit the puppy too!


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## Achala (Oct 6, 2015)

*Thank you all!*

Thank you so much for taking time to respond! I truly appreciate all the responses. I HAVE GIVEN DEPOSIT FOR MY LITTLE APRICOT GIRL!!!!
Elated and freaking out at the same time:act-up::afraid:
~Achala


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Congratulations - can't wait to hear about the new baby!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Ash's Mystical was a breeding partner with the breeder (Eriand) of my mom's mpoo. She recently passed away from cancer. Her daughter who also breeds took over, but may have given some of them to Ash's Mystical (not sure, don't quote me). If so that may account for why she seems to have a lot of dogs at the moment.

These breeders have been very active in conformation showing and have produced champions that have been handled by Kaz Hosaka (one of the top poodle handlers), so I think there is a lot to recommend them.

One of my friends who is a private trainer has worked with a number of Eriand dogs and has always found them to have lovely temperaments. I have another friend who has had all of her dogs over many years from Eriand. I can't speak specifically about Ash's Mystical but have been to Eriand's home and know her dogs to be sound.

The price to me is not off the wall.


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