# Rally-O



## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I think Elroy is going to love this…


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Looking forward to following Elroys experiences


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Me too! I’ve wanted to do that with Bobby for a long time but but since the pandemic it’s difficult to impossible to find classes other than Obedience classes. I still always check though. Looking forward to hearing about Elroy’s new adventure! 😊


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## a2girl (Oct 4, 2020)

Looking forward to hearing about your and Elroy’s experience!


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Spottytoes said:


> Me too! I’ve wanted to do that with Bobby for a long time but but since the pandemic it’s difficult to impossible to find classes other than Obedience classes. I still always check though. Looking forward to hearing about Elroy’s new adventure! 😊


Where I live, there’s several levels of basic obedience classes before you are ready to take Rally. Usually start with puppy, then Basic 1 and 2. There may be one more of obedience concepts where you learn some terminology and basic requirements….. only then are you ready for Rally. Soooooooooo, consider taking more obedience classes if you need them so you will be ready when they offer rally classes. Also if you take the higher level of obedience, you can train yourself for rally.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Bobby has had lots of classes and he has his CGC. I just keep waiting for a Rally class to become available. The pandemic has limited the specialty classes big time. Hmmmm…it seems I should look into doing Rally stuff at home.😊 I could even include Joey. He’s in Obedience I right now and I’ve been doing trick training with him at home. He loves to learn.


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## MsTalika (Aug 29, 2021)

94Magna_Tom said:


> I signed Elroy and I up for a NOVICE Rally-O class. It's a "walk-in" class. You can see when openings are available make reservations online. It is this Friday at 6:30 pm. I'll let you know how it goes. Should be fun


Can you please share with me, what Rally-O is? Sorry I’m not familiar.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Spottytoes said:


> Bobby has had lots of classes and he has his CGC. I just keep waiting for a Rally class to become available. The pandemic has limited the specialty classes big time. Hmmmm…it seems I should look into doing Rally stuff at home.😊 I could even include Joey. He’s in Obedience I right now and I’ve been doing trick training with him at home. He loves to learn.


Babykins has titles in AKC and WCRL rally - both have lots of official and unofficial videos to show you what to do with explanations of what is key to doing it correctly. If you have trouble, there's several of us on PF who compete in Rally to help. Also since you have Joey in Obedience - you can ask your teacher to help with some of the definitions.


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## EVpoodle (Sep 25, 2018)

MsTalika said:


> Can you please share with me, what Rally-O is? Sorry I’m not familiar.


Rally Obedience or Rally-0 for short is a dog sport where you run a course with stations with signs telling you what to do. For example, you might come up to station 1 and it says halt down. Once you down your dog you move on to the next and so on. Rally is scored out of base score of 100 and they deduct different amounts of point for things like pulling on the leash, or lagging really far behind you. While it is timed, the timing only comes into affect if there is a points tie for placing. Here is a good video showing Rally. 



 Unlike in Obedience you are allowed to talk to your dog throughout the whole course as much as you want. I hope this helps.


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## MsTalika (Aug 29, 2021)

EVpoodle said:


> Rally Obedience or Rally-0 for short is a dog sport where you run a course with stations with signs telling you what to do. For example, you might come up to station 1 and it says halt down. Once you down your dog you move on to the next and so on. Rally is scored out of base score of 100 and they deduct different amounts of point for things like pulling on the leash, or lagging really far behind you. While it is timed, the timing only comes into affect if there is a points tie for placing. Here is a good video showing Rally.
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike in Obedience you are allowed to talk to your dog throughout the whole course as much as you want. I hope this helps.


Too cute. It looks fun.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Load app "K9Rally" and you can see video of each specific challenge. @lily cd re recommended it, and after looking it over, it was (finally) clear just what Rally-O was. To me it is basically obedience (some of it advanced) training while you are walking/moving. 
Elroy finished Family Dog I, and Family Dog II (twice). There were no other classes available for Elroy at the place I use, and Family Dog III was all filled up. I like the idea of continuing his learning, no matter what form it takes, so this is where I landed! I doubt we'll ever "compete", but I don't doubt that we'll be doing much more of it in the future. Can't wait to see how it goes!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Don't take too much concern out of prerequisites or names of classes there are no universal squences or requirements. that must be done to be able to train for rally. A lot of training for it can be done "at home" especially if you use the app and the video links to learn the signs. Remember that when you read descriptions of what is to be done what is bolded is the essentials part of the sign. You can also think of each sign as being like a trick. You can teach each trick in isolation. Then you can string them all together to start to show the dog that they can't break off from the game after single tricks.Remember that rally is supposed to be fun and demonstrate team effort.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

Rally is fun. The K9Rally app is a handy resource, but it only covers a few of the nearly dozen organizations in the US and Canada that offer titles.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

I was given charge of a CH, Spud. I don't know if he had any specific Obedience training before I got him.
With a few practice sessions in the breeder's yard, I took him through the first two legs of Rally in one day.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Awwwe. Disappointed. Tonight's class is canceled due to the snow. Now we'll have to wait until next Friday.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Aw, that's disappointing.

Tom, do you know which rally your club trains and probably holds competitions? There's several rally organizations and the rules are different.

If your club is an AKC club then they will be teaching AKC rally and the app that Catherine recommends is the best.

However if your club is not AKC they may be teaching a different rally. Most of the non-AKC clubs near me do WCRL rally (World Cyanosport Rally Limited). C-wags and UKC are different organizations that each have their own rally. While they are overall similar, and to people who don't compete in rally, they probably look the same - there are small but important details between them so you can't use the phone app for one organization if you compete in another. 

I competed in both AKC and WCRL and I know many people who do the same.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

Skylar said:


> Aw, that's disappointing.
> 
> Tom, do you know which rally your club trains and probably holds competitions? There's several rally organizations and the rules are different.
> 
> ...


Yes, each one does have their own rules and signs. While some signs look the same, the way they are done is different enough that what might be correct in one organization would be incorrect in another.

These are the organizations that I know of in the US and Canada:

American Kennel Club (live and online)
Australian Shepherd Club of America (live and online)
Canadian Kennel Club (Canada) 
Canadian Association of Rally Obedience (Canada)
Canine Works and Games (live and online)
Cyber Rally-O (online)
International Canine Events Rallye Challenge
Rally Freestyle Elements (live and online)
United Kennel Club
Wag-It Games (live and online)
World Cynosport Rally, Limited (live and online)


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

In lower New York, northern New Jersey, Connecticut and Rhode Island the two big rally venues are AKC and to a lesser extent WCRL. I don't look much at other venues so I don't think there are lots of events in our neck of the woods. The other thing is that there are so many AKC events you don't need lots of venues to stay busy. I make enough stupid mistakes with only one set of signs that I don't do anything other than AKC rally. Tom just have fun getting started. Be aware there are diferent venues and you can pay attention to them or not depending on how big the bug for doing it bites you.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

I've only ever done AKC and Cyber Rally-O. The closest WCRL trials have been six or more hours away. Same for UKC and ASCA. Even most AKC trials are at least a couple of hours away these days.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

The facility is affiliated with AKC. I'm certain they will be training per AKC rules.
To be clear, at this point, I'm intending this to be purely for fun, bonding, and refining/improving his obedience while walking. Not for competition (at least not yet). Hopefully a novice class is accommodative to a total greenhorn 😅! He walks at heel, loose leash, pretty good. He does still get distracted at times and pulls a little, but as soon as he does, forward progress stops, he looks at me and says "huh?", then comes back to heel position. I'm expecting to have him on leash, using treats to begin with.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Yes, you will likely learn AKC version of signs. Have fun with it and I am sure you will learn nice sign/trick combos that will be fun and that will encourage connectedness and those are the two most important outcomes.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Annie loves Rally!

My family think it looks incredibly boring, but we have a lot of fun. And it is occasionally useful on walks. Now, if I can only convince her that the jumps in advanced are fun, and not something to do with a great deal of attitude? 'Fine! If you insist I'll SLOWLY hop that. And glare.".

@TeamHellhound, you can add CARO to your list of organizations with virtual trialing for Rally. They now run virtual trials 2x per year. I do CARO, and they are great because they allow modifications for both disabled dogs and disabled owners. For example, a friend's dog has bad hips, and just walks between the posts with the bar on the ground instead of having to jump, along with several other modifications to signs based on his vets recommendations.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

For Want of Poodle said:


> My family think it looks incredibly boring, but we have a lot of fun.


That's funny. My Dad asked me what Rally was and I showed him the App @lily cd re recommended. I told him it looks boring, but it should be fun!


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Annie loves Rally!
> 
> My family think it looks incredibly boring, but we have a lot of fun. And it is occasionally useful on walks. Now, if I can only convince her that the jumps in advanced are fun, and not something to do with a great deal of attitude? 'Fine! If you insist I'll SLOWLY hop that. And glare.".
> 
> @TeamHellhound, you can add CARO to your list of organizations with virtual trialing for Rally. They now run virtual trials 2x per year. I do CARO, and they are great because they allow modifications for both disabled dogs and disabled owners. For example, a friend's dog has bad hips, and just walks between the posts with the bar on the ground instead of having to jump, along with several other modifications to signs based on his vets recommendations.


That's good to know. I'll update my info. Since I'm not in Canada, I've not looked at their website in ages.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

I always kept Spud in a Martingale, 'cept when we were in the ring. Competing, I always slid him into a super slippery choke collar. You could almost see him snap to attention when that bad boy went on.
He knew then that it was Showtime! He went into the ring totally focused.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

We took our 1st "walk-in" Rally-O class tonight. For tonight's class, the instructor set up a full "advanced" Rally course with 13 signs (plus start and finish), so mine and Elroy's very first try at this was pretty representative of a real event! There were (10) dogs including (4) 1st timers. The (6) experienced pairs went first while the instructor guided them and had them repeat/correct thier errors. After they were done, the instructor asked "Who wants to go next?" and I said me! Well Elroy nailed it at almost every sign! I'm sure he would have done even better if I knew what I was doing! There was a sign where Elroy was supposed to do a full clockwise circle around me, and I kept messing him up half way around me because I couldn't keep his treat moving around me (ran out of arm🤣)! We tried that a couple more times and got it on the 3rd try. Another difficult one was a Stop>Sit>Stand>Then I do full circle around Elroy. Elroy doesn't have much practice at "Stand" and zero practice of me doing a circle around him while he stands still. He did the Sit and stand OK, but then he was completely unsure of what I wanted. There's another sign where you walk up to the sign, do a pivot turn (into your dog) 180 and swap the leash hand to hand behind your back, and wind up having Elroy back on my left walking the opposite direction. I messed this up at first, then got it pretty good. He did good on normal pace, fast pace, 270 Right, 270 left, side step 2 steps, serpentine the cones, jump the jump, circle around me while turning left.
After everyone went through it once, we all got to do it again (if we wanted). We did it a 2nd time and it went pretty much the same, probably a little better.
After we were done she asked if anyone had any questions, so I asked if tonight's class structure (like just running a full course) was normal or if there is normally more sign specific training. She said tonight was not typical of her classes. There were a number of regulars that she geared tonight's class towards. Future classes would be more "class" like. 
We had fun and I'll be signing up for class again next week.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Wonderful start. You have such a good relationship with Elroy that you will make a great team.


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## a2girl (Oct 4, 2020)

Sounds like a fun and interesting time—I am so impressed by you and Elroy!


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

lily cd re said:


> The other thing is that there are so many AKC events you don't need lots of venues to stay busy. I make enough stupid mistakes with only one set of signs that I don't do anything other than AKC rally.


Catherine, you cannot imagine how few and far between events and clubs are in the mountain West. I am so very lucky that I'm only 27 miles from our obedience club - others drive much, much farther to classes and events.

New Mexico is 371 miles long and 344 miles wide. There are 4 All Breed clubs, a toy group club, two obedience clubs, and one agility club. Most of these are in Albuquerque. Most people have to travel to surrounding states to complete titles in a reasonable length of time in spite of the long distances from place to place. Zoe's first shows were in Amarillo, a drive of over 300 miles!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Tom that sounds like quite an adventure! You did great supporting Elroy for doing signs that take some work to teach. One thing I noticed was your issue with having Elroy circle around you. This is a bit of a challenge for many teams. I suggest having a treat in both hands and starting Elroy to going around with your right hand and once he is behind you use your left hand behind your back to keep him going in the right direction. During the time you are doing this on leash it will also help you to make a smooth transition with your leash. You will find many of these moves are easier once you are able to get rid of the leash. Stick with it and I am sure you will find rally to be lots of fun and a great way to build your relationship deeper than you can imagine possible.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

lily cd re said:


> Tom that sounds like quite an adventure! You did great supporting Elroy for doing signs that take some work to teach. One thing I noticed was your issue with having Elroy circle around you. This is a bit of a challenge for many teams. I suggest having a treat in both hands and starting Elroy to going around with your right hand and once he is behind you use your left hand behind your back to keep him going in the right direction. During the time you are doing this on leash it will also help you to make a smooth transition with your leash. You will find many of these moves are easier once you are able to get rid of the leash. Stick with it and I am sure you will find rally to be lots of fun and a great way to build your relationship deeper than you can imagine possible.


Our instructor gave me the same advice. She took Elroy and showed me, and the class, exactly that. I still haven't practiced it with him yet though. I'll try a bit later.


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## Sroodle8 (Dec 23, 2021)

What fun! Sounds like you two are naturals!


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

We did some practicing after last week's class. Mostly we practiced sits, downs, circles, and stands. He's come along nicely with these. Friday's class was a little more instructive than his first class. She (Danette) started by instructing how to do a proper heal-sit, and front-sit. She recommended making some props for your dog to use to attain proper position (relative to you). A small raised (2-3") platform just large enough for your dog to sit on (10"x15" for Elroy should do it) to help with a front-sit, and a 1"x 6" covered (carpet or non-skid adhesive) board to align his front feet with for the heal-sit. We practiced these for like 20 minutes. Elroy did OK, but still has a long way to go on proper position. We need to work on tuck-sits in order to get these right. After this Danette went over the most common mistakes she took points off for in her event Judging from last Monday. Biggest mistake was the human mis interpreting the signs, some of which look very similar. Taught leashes (novice) and speed changes (not noticeable) were next most common offenses. Next we all got a chance (half class (4-5)at a time) to pre-walk the course she laid out to familiarize ourselves with it. Next, one at a time, we each got to run the course. No hurry, Danette would stop us if we messed up, explain what we did wrong, then repeat that sign and continue. We all learned something from everybody elses runs. When Elroy and I went, Elroy was very excited and wouldn't settle at the starting position. Danette's dog Enzo was in his covered crate only 5 feet from the starting position (see sheet covered crate in upper right corner), and the cover wasn't fooling Elroy... He knew Enzo was there, and Elroy wanted to play. Anyway, I never did get him to settle, so we just started the course. Once we started, he was very good and focused. We did really good in general. Even Danette was giving us compliments. We had come too close to a sign requiring a halt-sit-180 right turn. Had to back up and try again. We also had some trouble with his CCW spin while I continue walking, but got it done. Left turn, 270 right turn, normal pace, slow pace, halt-down, and finish all went really well!
The hardest part for Elroy is keeping calm the entire class. Most of the class for him is just sitting quietly while Danette is instructing, or other classmates are taking thier turns. He did bark a couple of times, but never more than once at a time, usually instigated by another unsettled doggie😁! We had fun, learned stuff, and will be doing it again in two weeks (no class next week).


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Danette Chorney? She is one of my favorite judges. We've shown to her a number of times and we are friends on FB. You will learn lots from her, not just about teaching the signs, but how to navigate courses.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Yes! That's her. What a small world! I'm friends with her on FB too. She's very nice and I like her style so far.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

I made the training tools suggested in class. Here they are.
















The 10"x16" one is rigid foam (insulation) covered with a $6 yoga mat (from Ocean State Job Lot). I glued the mat on with spray can contact cement and secured the edges with Duct tape. The (heal-sit) alignment board is just a 1"x6" covered with the same yoga mat.
The sit platform works really well. He sits quickly and nice and close to me this way. Without it, it was difficult to get him to sit nice and close. The alignment board also works very nice, except Elroy doesn't really know a good tuck-sit yet, so when he sits after aligning both feet on it, he moves his feet back.
I've looked up tuck-sit by Kikopup, but I'm not making much progress yet.
Couple of questions now. When I ask for the tuck sit and he doesn't do it (because he doesn't know it), but does a regular sit, I don't think I'm supposed to reward him, but he's trying so hard to figure out what I want, and gets a bit frustrated if I don't reward him for his sit (he does a whiny bark, like "c'mon man, what do you want!"). Should I reward him? Or, maybe I need to forget the Rally heal-sit for now and separately try to teach him a tuck-sit so that I can put a (understood) command to it? If this is the case, what should I do for Rally practices in the meantime? Can I allow the regular sit with less than ideal alignment? Love to hear from experience! Thanks all!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I would only pay for a sit at heel when Elroy keeps his front feet on the board. To help make that happen you can use a mild aversive by pulling up on his collar using his leash (I would not do this off leash until he is showing that he understands what is supposed to happen). With that bit of upward pressure to keep his feet on the board you can lure him to look up with a cookie above his head held along the seam of your pants. Another way you can work on this is to sit him between you and a wall. You will kneel next to him facing him and the wall. Hold your leash and a cookie in your right hand and use your cookie to direct his head up. This will also tend to move him towards sitting. Use your left hand to guide him to the sit while he tuacks and keeps his feet on the board. Once he has built some sucle memory you should see him tuck more readily. You may want to assign a new order to the tuck sit as separate from a casual sit. I use "come up." Another thing to be careful with is to not encourage inadvertent forging. Make sure the cookie always come from your hand right above his head and along your pants seam, not in front of you.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

I was trying this with no leash. I will put his leash on the next time we work this and try your suggestions. 
For the against the wall technique, did you mean to _*stand*_ him (back feet) against the wall first? You said "_*sit*_ him between you and a wall". And when you said kneel next to him, did you mean in front of him? 
Thanks for the tips😁!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Oh my words don't convey what pictures can. Elroy will be parallel to the wall and once you kneel next to him you should be looking at him and then the wall so that your chest and abdomen are facing his side. Keep his feet on the board. Hope that says it better.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

lily cd re said:


> Oh my words don't convey what pictures can. Elroy will be parallel to the wall and once you kneel next to him you should be looking at him and then the wall so that your chest and abdomen are facing his side. Keep his feet on the board. Hope that says it better.


Yes, I get it now. Will try this tomorrow. Thanks again! 
(poodle tax)


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## Looniesense (Jul 10, 2021)

Love this Rally-O thread.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Elroy learned the tuck sit today. I think he was just too tired yesterday to learn it. I didn't even do anything different, just started with a fresh poodle this time! He was stepping his front feet on the board yesterday, but just wouldn't keep them there when he sat (regular sit). Today, the first attempt, I withheld the reward with his regular sit (first try), and next he offered the tuck sit! Bingo/Jackpot!!! Feed-feed-feed! He gave it to me pretty consistently after that. Such a smart boy! Love my Elroy💞! Now I'll practice it regularly until he can get it on queue, "tuck". Thanks for the advice!


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## Looniesense (Jul 10, 2021)

Just make sure you pronounce that “T” very well or folks close by may think .......LMAO


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Thaat's brave playing with the flirt pole in the house! We would have insanity and massive destruction of property if we showed the flirt pole in the house. I am glad see see that the tuck sit is starting to catch on.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

I made a small version for my Dad to use in his house. He isn't a huge fan of going outside in this cold winter season. Definitely not the best idea, but so far so good🤣!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Remember there are two eager flirt pole players here though so definitely more hazards possible. My mom hates being out in the cold too. She is retreating to Florida on Feb 6th for a month. I wish she wasn't going because of COVID, but she is her own person and in charge of her daily doings. Besides she wants to see my brother and his new house. Are you all ready for the snow?


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

My Dad's is a block down the street. We visit daily, sometimes twice daily, by taking a break from the cold during our walks. My Mom has passed so he's home alone most times. Elroy makes him (and me) very happy! Elroy is very happy to see him too! 
Whatever snow we get, I'm ready. Looks like the 'blizzard' conditions will be closer to the cape. Predicting around 6" for my area. What part of Long Island are you in? Hope you weather the storm with no issues.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

We are in Huntington so north shore western Suffolk county. I think we may get more than you but who knows. Poodles wll be happy to have enough to make it playful. I am bummed because I was planning to take Javelin to a nice training place off NJ Tpke exit 7, too far to go if the weather is on the bas side of the forecast.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Yes! Poodles will be Happy!


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Well Friday finally came around (last weeks class was canceled) and we got in another Rally class last night. The first half was lectures and demos (Danette & her 17 month labrador puppy, Enzo), and the second half was running the course. Still, for Elroy (and several others), I think the lecture is the hardest part. I spend lots of treats on him during the lecture to keep his attention and from staring at other dogs. I use the two second rule (gazing any longer than 2 seconds is staring, and not allowed) and then break it up.
Once our turn came around, Elroy and I did pretty good. Once we start, he keeps his attention on me really well. I'm sure he *knows* he's working! This week had a lot of _*left turns/pivots*_. We had a "*send* your dog away, and sit" where I would tell Elroy to go to the cone and sit. There was a *clover leaf *pattern around 4 cones. There was a halt>sit>*wait*>pivot right. He did pretty good. I had trouble doing a 360° circle left, but figured it out in a couple of tries. The cloverleaf got really close to 3 onlookers (dogs & handlers) and Elroy went off course towards them for a second. I retried it with a treat lure and he had no problem with it then. He did the stop>sit>wait really good. He did stop>sit>pivot & go *pretty* good, but we'll have to work on that one to get it better. For the send your dog away and sit sign, I just led him on leash to and (with outstretched arm) around the cone, then before he was all the way around, I asked him to sit, and he did. All in all, we did really well (I think). Danette seemed pleased with how he did too!
Another thing I learned is that there is no differentiation between training novice and/or expert class. She is teaching Rally (Novice - Master). It's your (mine) job to ask questions pertaining to your own level. Several of the signs we trained are expert, and some are master. To be honest, I didn't think any of them were terribly difficult. Maybe if I was being scored, I learn otherwise 🤣. Anyway, I like it, and I'm pretty sure Elroy likes it, so we're going to keep it up for a while!


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I’m so glad you and Elroy are doing so well in Rally. I always think of this as ballroom dancing with your dog.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Your 2 second rule regarding staring is excellent. Staring is one of the most surefire way for dogs to get in trouble. 

It is really wonderful that Danette is teaching all levels of signs. Javelin knows almost all signs from all rally levels too. If you decide to trial you will find yourself flying through the titles so it is good to have master signs mastered early on.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

I got the 2 second rule from his Focus & Impulse Control class. I'm glad that higher level signs are taught as well. Thank you.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I had a feeling the staring avoidance rule probably came from your focus class. I spend a lot of time in my focus class and novice classes making sure that nobody is allowed to develop staring habits. The other day I was talking to my novice folks so I had them put their dogs on down stays. Of the four of them only one was really relaxed and off duty on the down. He had his head down and his eyes closed. I asked the other people if they thought their dogs were relaxed. One of them said no because she could see her dog was scanning the room IBelgian Shepherd, so the herding dog thing) The other two said they thought their dogs were relaxed since they were on downs. I said I didn't think either of those dogs was really relaxed and to show them why they weren't I took just a few steps towards one of them and he broke his down because he was watching me and I was moving towards him a little bit. For the other one (a very green dog) all I had to do was point at her to call out to the handler that she was trying very hard to engage the really relaxed dog when she jumped up and took steps towards him. Thankfully I only had those four people and they were well spread out. It is very worthwile to learn to read canine body language. Seeing intention signals before they turn into full blown behaviors is a great skill for all of us.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

lily cd re said:


> I had a feeling the staring avoidance rule probably came from your focus class. I spend a lot of time in my focus class and novice classes making sure that nobody is allowed to develop staring habits. The other day I was talking to my novice folks so I had them put their dogs on down stays. Of the four of them only one was really relaxed and off duty on the down. He had his head down and his eyes closed. I asked the other people if they thought their dogs were relaxed. One of them said no because she could see her dog was scanning the room IBelgian Shepherd, so the herding dog thing) The other two said they thought their dogs were relaxed since they were on downs. I said I didn't think either of those dogs was really relaxed and to show them why they weren't I took just a few steps towards one of them and he broke his down because he was watching me and I was moving towards him a little bit. For the other one (a very green dog) all I had to do was point at her to call out to the handler that she was trying very hard to engage the really relaxed dog when she jumped up and took steps towards him. Thankfully I only had those four people and they were well spread out. It is very worthwile to learn to read canine body language. Seeing intention signals before they turn into full blown behaviors is a great skill for all of us.


It's a difficult habit to break for Elroy. Think I'll start another thread to get more input.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Last night's class focused primarily on FRONT'ing your dog and GOING AROUND your dog. We did pretty good again. The 2 side steps right was new. He did very good for his first time, not perfect, but very good. A little practice and he should nail it.








The other new one was MOVING STAND walk around.









He did the stand walk around on his 2nd try, but *I *missed on the *moving* stand part, so we really didn't make a proper attempt. This one will get more practice at home as well.
All in all another good, fun night. No pictures this week. There was a black lab team there this week that was very close to their RACh title so I got an appreciation for what smooth cohesive teamwork looks like😍!

ps: Danette says hi to you Catherine👋


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Lily has never loved that call front with the side steps. We muddle along with it, but Javelin is getting the hang of it. And I see lots of people who stop on their way around the dogs for the satnd sit and down while handler keeps moving. Lily is awesome on those three. I taught those by playing at noodley heeling with random sit, stand or down while i kept moving and then turned it into me going around her. I just started working on that set of behaviors with Javelin yesterday. I am glad you are having fun with this Tom. If nothing else you can do AKC trick dog titles and CGC but I think you would have fun showing it too.

Tell Danette hello right back when you see her for your next session. I know she is watching us on FB, but let her know we only need 11 master points to finish. We have 3 trials in March so hopefully we will finish next month. After that we will be at a poodles only trial in April. I wish we were going to show to Danette for one of those.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

I'm sure that most Canadians have heard of Rally-O... but up here (and I suppose it depends on the sanctioning body... CKC?) we separate Rally and Obedience into two separate courses/trials. With completely different skills in each one.
Rally Novice - RN - leash on - 3 'legs' (repeats of a course with the same signs in a different layout)
Rally (something else that I can't remember) - R? - same as Novice but no leash
Rally Excellence - RE - no leash - distractions introduced

I took Spud through two legs of RN. But never tried an Obedience exercise.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

It is essentially the same here. Rally obedience and classical obedience events are separate trials with separate event numbers. Some people just call rally rally, but it is a sport that has origins in obedience and is thought of by many people as a stepping stone to get into classical obedience and by others as something to do with a dog that has finished its obedience career but still likes to do stuff. Since rally jumps are lower than obedience jumps it works well for many older dogs.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

It started out being called Rally Obedience, I think, and then got shortened to just Rally over the years in a lot of places. It's the same difference.  A lot of the exercises have their foundation in "doodling" which are basically little drills to help with heeling and such. A lot of the AKC Master exercises have their basis in canine freestyle

For what it's worth, the CKC still calls it Rally Obedience, and the rules for it and regular Obedience are in the same booklet. According to the rulebook dated 1-1-21,CKC titles are Rally Novice (RN), Rally Intermediate (RI), Rally Advanced (RA), Rally Excellent) RE), Rally Master (RM), Rally Advanced Excellent (RAE), Rally Master Excellent (RMX), Rally Champions (RCH) and Rally Grand Champion (RGCH). 

Between the US and Canada, there are a dozen different organizations that offer rally titles, either in person and/or by video. There are also a couple of UK based organizations that offer virtual titling.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

We're still doing Rally classes. Elroy is doing pretty good considering we don't really do it all that much (once a week, plus a little bit of practice). Danette took 3 weeks off so we did the same. Last Friday we resumed class. Tonight's practice included a figure 8 set up with 2 cones and 2 food bowls filled with toys as distractions. About ½ the class failed at the distractions, but Elroy did it perfectly.
I bought a travel crate and tonight was the 3rd class we've used it at. Most of the class time (for us) is utilized practicing crate training. He's pretty good in it, but gets a bit anxious and starts barking if I completely ignore him.
Danette said his run tonight would be a qualifying run. He does like when he finally gets his turn! He loves working for me!


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Tonight's practice included a figure 8 set up with 2 cones and 2 food bowls filled with toys as distractions.





94Magna_Tom said:


> Danette said his run tonight would be a qualifying run. He does like when he finally gets his turn! He loves working for me!


Tom, that's amazing. Heeling a figure 8 with toy distractions is very difficult - you will never see that in a novice level. For Danette to say it would be a qualifying run goes to show the connection you have built up with Elroy. You are working as a team because Elroy wants to partner with you.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Danette always mixes in a variety of levels. We had 2 master signs tonight that Elroy did without any (well without MUCH) trouble. 
I do need to practice his pivot more though. He gets it, but doesn't *snap to it* like some of the other (nearly RACH) dogs.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Another class under our belt. Elroy did quite good again. I think he's a natural at it! We fit in three runs tonight. Each run had a few changes relative to the previous run. Among the 10 signs, tonight we had an offset figure 8 with two food bowls filled with fresh salmon. The first time through, he was a tiny bit distracted by it, but quickly recovered. The next two times, for the first time, I decided to let him try *off* leash runs. He did very good. I did have to be a bit more vocal to keep his attn the first (off-leash) time, and the 2nd time he was right with me. He didn't get too distracted by the Salmon, a little interest, yes, but never went for it. Another new challenging sign was a side by side spin right, the dog AND handler both have to spin right simultaneously. We did this one twice and we did really well for our first time. If anything, I was the one that didn't spin properly.
We both have such a good time at class. Already signed up for next Friday.
Oh yeah, forgot to mention, he's doing really good in his crate too. Class time is his only crate time practice and I'm glad it's progressing as quickly as it is!


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

Just catching up on your thread. It's awesome you have the time to do this with Elroy. Great work, great dog.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Happy'sDad said:


> Just catching up on your thread. It's awesome you have the time to do this with Elroy. Great work, great dog.


No dog for 56 years. Once retired, I now had time for a dog. This was a long time coming! Retire early. Get a dog. Life is good. 
Thanks!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Ha I always spin slower than Lily. I tell her wait when she is done so that she doesn't do anythng strange to take points off. I hear you on "waiting" for having a dog. I didn't wait to retire. I waited to have a nice dog friendly yard.

You know Danette and her boy are going to Rally Nationals. They made it through the draw. I am happy for them.


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Retire early


That's the plan in just 7-8 years. We had our son later in life so I'll still have to split my time.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

lily cd re said:


> Ha I always spin slower than Lily. I tell her wait when she is done so that she doesn't do anythng strange to take points off. I hear you on "waiting" for having a dog. I didn't wait to retire. I waited to have a nice dog friendly yard.
> 
> You know Danetter and her boy are going to Rally Nationals. They made it through the draw. I am happy for them.


Yes, I know. She (often) uses Enzo as our example for how to do each sign during class. There's another lab, Remy, in our class that I think is going too. Exciting stuff!


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Elroy and I went to a Rally "Run through" event today. I had signed us up for 2 "Novice" and 2 "Intermediate" runs. The event started at 9. We got there at 9:40 to watch the higher levels (Master, Excellent, Advanced) go before getting to our turns. There weren't many participants in the Master or Excellent classes and the tail end of Excellent was going when we arrived. It was a good experience for Elroy to be crated for a longer period of time than he's experienced in our classes. The judge (my regular class instructor) offered to faux score us if we wanted, so on my 2nd run of each class, we did it with practically no treats and she scored us (allowing the treats). We got an 88 on the "Intermediate" class and a 96 on the "Novice" class. I guess we could actually try this for some real Rally points if we wanted. Anyway, we had fun! That's what it's all about!


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## Sroodle8 (Dec 23, 2021)

Nice!


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Tonight's Rally class was an official "Rally Excellent" course set up. Our teacher was going to record her and her dog Enzo (Black Lab) after class for a virtual submission. Since she had her camera all set up, she offered to record our runs if we wanted.
Here's me and Elroy doing a Rally Excellent course.




She forgot to reset the jump height back to 16" for Elroy, but since I didn't catch it, it was my fault (I learned I'm supposed to make sure jumps are set to Elroy's jump height before we start. If they're not, I'm supposed to inform the judge). Anyway, ignoring my using treats, and improper jump height, she said we would have scored about a 95.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

You two looked great out there! It's like choreography .


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## Bigbark (Jan 9, 2021)

Great run! Way to go Tom and Elroy!


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Elroy and I will trying again for our 1st Rally Novice-A Qualification tomorrow at 4pm and again Friday at 11:20am. I hope we get a Q, but I'm still not very confident he'll be able to get through an entire course with no food. He gets stubborn on the stationary signs (he seems to be saying "C'mon Dad! How many Sits must I do! No more!") towards the end when he's not getting treats. We'll see how it goes!


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Good luck team Elroy. Yes, many dogs don't like the sits and downs - hopefully your courses won't have too many.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Skylar said:


> Good luck team Elroy. Yes, many dogs don't like the sits and downs - hopefully your courses won't have too many.


Thank you! Hopefully not too many Sits! if he doesn't qualify, then that's OK too. We really have fun doing it whatever the outcome!


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

Good luck! I'm sure you already know, but if you are planning on using the collar he's wearing in the picture, you will need to take the tag off it before going in the ring.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

TeamHellhound said:


> Good luck! I'm sure you already know, but if you are planning on using the collar he's wearing in the picture, you will need to take the tag off it before going in the ring.


Yes. Thank you. We have another collar and leash we use during rally. No tags.


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## Looniesense (Jul 10, 2021)

Wishing you both good luck on this adventure and I look forward to hearing good news from you.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Good luck, Team Elroy!


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## EVpoodle (Sep 25, 2018)

Good luck to you and Elory.


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## TX_DUKE (7 mo ago)

94Magna_Tom said:


> I signed Elroy and I up for a NOVICE Rally-O class. It's a "walk-in" class. You can see when openings are available make reservations online. It is this Friday at 6:30 pm. I'll let you know how it goes. Should be fun


I want to hear how it goes. I have been thinking about signing up Duke as well, or maybe novice agility. The classes are always full or don’t fit with my schedule and it’s kind of far from my home. They are opening a new facility near my home in April 2023. Very excited about that. Good luck to you and Elroy! Sounds fun!


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## Sroodle8 (Dec 23, 2021)

Go get 'em, Team Elroy!


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

We did it! Yeeeeaaaahh! We got an 84 and came in 5th out of 6 (in Novice-A). We only got a green ribbon. The truth is I'm ecstatic we qualified at all! I really thought he was going to be totally distracted (because of "no food" and lots of dogs/excitement) and not be able to perform. But he did perform! He hesitated on a "down" (sign #9) and I thought he was done, but then he did it! Yeah! By sign #12 (just a sit) he figured out I wasn't giving him treats and he decided he wasn't going to do the "sit". I decided to abort that sign and took the 10 point loss. He did great on all the other signs! So proud of my boy Elroy!


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Huge congratulations to team Elroy. Good work.


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## EVpoodle (Sep 25, 2018)

Congratulations to you and Elroy!


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

Congratulations! While a blue, red, yellow, or white ribbon is a nice bonus, the green one is the one that counts.  

I don't know if you would be interested in an online class, but this one running in the February 2023 session, Fenzi Dog Sports Academy - FE280: Cutting Out the Cookies (or Toys!) - Reducing Reinforcement for R+ Trainers and this one running in the April 2023 session, Fenzi Dog Sports Academy - FE420: Bye, Bye Cookie: Hello Delayed Reinforcement! are all about getting reinforcers off your body and having the dog still perform at a high level of attention.


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## PowersPup (Aug 28, 2020)

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!! That is a great accomplishment! Rally is in Topper's future. I have vounteered for the Rally class at my training school a few times and the sport fascinates me. I sure hope it fascinates Topper, too!


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## Looniesense (Jul 10, 2021)

Congratulations to team Elroy! You both look very happy.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Good Boy, Elroy!!

Congratulations!


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## MiniMojo (Aug 20, 2021)

CONGRATULATIONS!! I just love those photos. You’re beaming!! And Elroy looks rightfully pleased with himself.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

TeamHellhound said:


> Congratulations! While a blue, red, yellow, or white ribbon is a nice bonus, the green one is the one that counts.
> 
> I don't know if you would be interested in an online class, but this one running in the February 2023 session, Fenzi Dog Sports Academy - FE280: Cutting Out the Cookies (or Toys!) - Reducing Reinforcement for R+ Trainers and this one running in the April 2023 session, Fenzi Dog Sports Academy - FE420: Bye, Bye Cookie: Hello Delayed Reinforcement! are all about getting reinforcers off your body and having the dog still perform at a high level of attention.


I may look into these. Thank you.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

PowersPup said:


> CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!! That is a great accomplishment! Rally is in Topper's future. I have vounteered for the Rally class at my training school a few times and the sport fascinates me. I sure hope it fascinates Topper, too!


It's all around good training. If you take classes, you're around people and dogs the whole time. Good environment to help your pooch learn how to be relaxed in a group setting. This is also where he got comfortable and able to relax in his portable crate. There's a lot of down time during class, so make the most of it! Then there's the one on one relationship building. It's all good. I definitely recommend it. If you don't want "titles", that's fine. If you do, that's fine too! You'll certainly have fun along the way, improve your relationship with Topper, and increase his attention to you and his obedience. Be sure to start a thread when you do!


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

A HUGE congratulations to you and Elroy!!!!!😍
I am impressed and I love your pictures!


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Fantastic job! So if he sat, he would have gotten second? That’s amazing for a first try!


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

Congratulations! 👏 👏👏
What a great accomplishment. I'm so happy for you and Elroy!


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Congratulations, Team Elroy! Your smile says it all.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Congratulations Team Tom and Elroy! (Team Telroy???)


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Starla said:


> Fantastic job! So if he sat, he would have gotten second? That’s amazing for a first try!


Yes. Would have been a 94! Would-a, could-a, should-a🤣!


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## Looniesense (Jul 10, 2021)

You should definitely send a photo to Elroys’ breeder. I bet they love to see how their babies are accomplishing great things.


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## Sroodle8 (Dec 23, 2021)

Oh, heck yeah! Love the photos.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Looniesense said:


> You should definitely send a photo to Elroys’ breeder. I bet they love to see how their babies are accomplishing great things.


She and I are friends on Facebook. I posted it there and she copied the picture (I gave her permission to share any of my Elroy related posts) and reposted it on her breeder website. See for yourself! Wool 'n Wind Standard Poodles


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Today's trial didn't go as well. We NQ'ed. The facility had triple the activity today than yesterday and Elroy had trouble focusing on me. I also missed a sign altogether so technically I earned the NQ before Elroy did, but if I hadn't missed it, I'm sure we would have missed a Q by 4-6 points or so. He wouldn't do the stationary signs so that was -30. We did very well on the moving signs. Oh well. We still had a good time and learned a lot more about how rally trials are done. All in all a great time. So happy he Q'ed yesterday! No more trials on the radar. Our next event is a Rally walk-through (practice) on January 15th.


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## Looniesense (Jul 10, 2021)

Glad you had fun. You and Elroy are doing so great. Like you said, the experience of being in a crowded arena + having to compete was overwhelming for both of you. Onward and upward, now you know what you need to work on.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

If you both had a good time, then you won what matters! Great work team Elroy!


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

We ALWAYS have fun! That's what it's all about! 😁
This was before yesterday's trial...








And here he is now... Yes he's sleeping 🤣


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

That Q photo from the first trial is amazing! Congrats on that! And sorry about trial 2. Sounds like you have a great attitude about it and are sure to do better next time with a little more schooling. The Fenzi class suggested by TeamHellhound sounds like a great idea. I am a big fan of Fenzi's methods.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

You two have the best prize of all - each other!


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

I'm sure the acclimatization period takes some time. Kind of a unique environment, but your leisure outings to local events have likely helped a lot. Now the intensity increase for trialing. You two are such a great team - love the photo!!


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