# Muzzle on a poodle



## Brownie_mom (Dec 1, 2020)

Hi All,
I was just wondering if anyone used a muzzle on your poodle. I have a mini who does not hesitate to bite if he is uncomfortable. He is about 7 month old now and we are having the biting issues since he was a little puppy. I am working on it, but his groomer complains that he tried to bite, so she cannot groom him as well as she would like to. He also bit my husband yesterday when I was brushing him after the bath. Not really hard, he for sure can do much more damage, but hard enough to have a long bloody cut on my hubby arm.
So I was thinking may be I should get a soft muzzle to use it while grooming?
Appreciate your feed-back.


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## Ava. (Oct 21, 2020)

I feel it is necessary for every dog to be muzzle trained. 

Don't use a soft muzzle, the dog can't pant or open its mouth. Its stressful. Get a baskerville muzzle , and see about joining "muzzle up pup! the pro muzzle community" on FB


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Biting hard enough to draw blood is a rather serious issue. Does he only bite while being groomed? Have you consulted with a trainer? There’s a good list of resources here:









Pandemic Puppy Primer


The pandemic has created some unique challenges for families adding a new puppy or adult dog to their home. On the one hand, we finally have the time to devote to a four legged family member; on the other hand, surging demand has led to adoption and sales scams, and social distancing...




www.poodleforum.com





In the meantime, yes, I would be taking steps to ensure he can’t hurt anyone. But, like @Ava. said, I would be careful to do it in such a way that it doesn’t create additional stress.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

Someone made a thread a while back on being proactive about getting your poodle muzzle trained in the event they need emergency vet care. I don't remember the full details. The main idea was that when your pup is at the doggie hospital, they are familiar with the muzzle already and it's one less thing for them to be stressed about.

It's on my list of things to do.... 

It might be a good opportunity to get 2 birds w/ one stone since you're considering it.


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## Ren (Apr 26, 2021)

Brownie_mom said:


> Hi All,
> I was just wondering if anyone used a muzzle on your poodle. I have a mini who does not hesitate to bite if he is uncomfortable. He is about 7 month old now and we are having the biting issues since he was a little puppy. I am working on it, but his groomer complains that he tried to bite, so she cannot groom him as well as she would like to. He also bit my husband yesterday when I was brushing him after the bath. Not really hard, he for sure can do much more damage, but hard enough to have a long bloody cut on my hubby arm.
> So I was thinking may be I should get a soft muzzle to use it while grooming?
> Appreciate your feed-back.


wow you have a problem. an aggressive poodle certainly dose not meet the standard of the breed...Is this poodle from a reputable selective breeder ? it appears not! Canadian Kennel Club standard is: 
*Temperament*
A gay, intelligent and eager-to-please canine, the Miniature Poodle is a charming companion and an excellent prospect for obedience work.


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## Brownie_mom (Dec 1, 2020)

Ava. said:


> Don't use a soft muzzle, the dog can't pant or open its mouth. Its stressful. Get a baskerville muzzle , and see about joining "muzzle up pup! the pro muzzle community" on FB


Thank you Ava, I though that the soft is less stressful, never had to use a muzzle on my dogs. This is the first one who does not hesitate to bite. My last dog was a standard schnauzer and he would never bite anyone, even under the high stress. Dog before was a German Shepherd and he was trained as a police dog, so he could for sure bite, but NEVER his masters. So this is a new experience for me to have a relatively small dog that will bite. The list expected issue I could think about while looking for a puppy. 
He is not aggressive. Loves people and other dogs. I had a personal trainer to work with him, and sure enough Ruger was the sweetes thing when trainer was over. I am enrolling him in a different school now and will talk to the new trainer. Need to get this behavior under control before it is too late (hope it is not too late).


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## Brownie_mom (Dec 1, 2020)

Ren said:


> aggressive poodle certainly dose not meet the standard


He is not aggressive. I think this is a fear biting. Not sure under what biting category it goes, but for sure not a best thing you can expect from a poodle. And he is from a reputable breeder who is doing it for over40 years.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Soft muzzles are typically what is used for grooming (maybe medical too?) and basket muzzles are used in all other cases. Soft muzzles are more restrictive in that they don't allow the dog to drink or pant while in use. Basket muzzles are bigger and bulkier but allow the dog to behave naturally. 

What does his breeder say about the behavior? It is highly abnormal for a poodle puppy and should be very concerning for the breeder.


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## Yellow (Sep 24, 2018)

maybe CBD oil before going to groomer???


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

I have used a grooming muzzle in the past. Be careful to remove frequently (evey half hour or so) because the soft muzzles look comfortable but restrict panting.

When you groom is it possibly painful? What have you done to work on desensitization? Is it possible that the groomer has scared him/been rough? The dog who we had to use a grooming muzzle with had gone to a few poor groomers before we started home grooming and never learned that grooming was not scary.

I have had a lot of success getting past fear for my recent dogs with slow desensitization. Trixie, my mother's Yorkie snapped when her nails were cut and it was very stressful for everyone. I took over and started desensitization with tons of treats and a goal of a good experience rather than a good nail clipping. She now gets jealous when I use the nail clippers on another dog. Usually there is warning signs long before a snap, so I back off before it gets to a snap so I can slowly desensitize. There was a period where Annie was getting Matt's on her legs and didn't want me to touch them since it hurt. I shaved her down and worked on brushing and handling while they were not matted and did not hurt.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I have concerns about how both the humans and the puppy are handling this situation. It sounds to me like the humans have pushed the puppy over threshold several times. It sounds like the puppy is reacting to going over threshold by using his teeth.

I think what needs to happen at this point is for everyone to step back from the "Get 'er done" approach to grooming. Yes, sticking a muzzle on the puppy will let you get 'er done, but it might also increase the stress and build bad associations you will then deal with for the rest of the dog's life. You don't want this escalating to where you must throw a muzzle on the dog for each trip to the groomer or vet. Nor do you want to clean stress vomit and diarrhea from your car upholstery because the pup is freaked out about grooming appointments.

Since you are working with a trainer, I would ask the trainer for help and exercises for desensitizing the puppy to handling. Even goofy stuff can help. Yes, I recite the "This little piggy" rhyme while wiggling puppy toes.


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## Ava. (Oct 21, 2020)

Don't use the muzzle as a baindaid though. sounds like your puppy needs some training


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## Brownie_mom (Dec 1, 2020)

cowpony said:


> I have concerns about how both the humans and the puppy are handling this situation. It sounds to me like the humans have pushed the puppy over threshold several times. It sounds like the puppy is reacting to going over threshold by using his teeth.
> 
> I think what needs to happen at this point is for everyone to step back from the "Get 'er done" approach to grooming. Yes, sticking a muzzle on the puppy will let you get 'er done, but it might also increase the stress and build bad associations you will then deal with for the rest of the dog's life. You don't want this escalating to where you must throw a muzzle on the dog for each trip to the groomer or vet. Nor do you want to clean stress vomit and diarrhea from your car upholstery because the pup is freaked out about grooming appointments.
> 
> Since you are working with a trainer, I would ask the trainer for help and exercises for desensitizing the puppy to handling. Even goofy stuff can help. Yes, I recite the "This little piggy" rhyme while wiggling puppy toes.


Cowpony, i think you are right. I probably did push him a bit more then he liked. Problem is, he just does not like to be brushed after bath and I am afraid that if I do not do it then later it is going to be even much harder to finish brushing him. Plust is it a good example to give him that if he does not like somehting I will back off? So it is like a circle. And again, even when pushed, a good dog will not bite, in my humble opinion. I do not believe that brushing was painful, probably a bit uncomfortable.
Muzzle is the last resource I will go to, if absolutely have to. Hope it is not going to go so far. I still feel that I have to at list train him to use muzzle. With his drama king personality it is not going to be easy


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Merlin tries to bite out of fear (not a mean bone in his body) when I do his nails. At first I tried a soft muzzle but I didn’t like the way it made him feel. So now I just use the cone of shame and it works perfectly.

He only does it for nails and I don’t need it to groom his face or anywhere else, thankfully.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

Brownie_mom said:


> Cowpony, i think you are right. I probably did push him a bit more then he liked. Problem is, he just does not like to be brushed after bath and I am afraid that if I do not do it then later it is going to be even much harder to finish brushing him. Plust is it a good example to give him that if he does not like somehting I will back off? So it is like a circle. And again, even when pushed, a good dog will not bite, in my humble opinion. I do not believe that brushing was painful, probably a bit uncomfortable.
> Muzzle is the last resource I will go to, if absolutely have to. Hope it is not going to go so far. I still feel that I have to at list train him to use muzzle. With his drama king personality it is not going to be easy


Maybe try some exclusive new brushing-after-shower treats?

How long is his coat? Short? 

When Basil's coat is less then 1 inch, then I can get away with very relaxed grooming standards...


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Brownie_mom said:


> Cowpony, i think you are right. I probably did push him a bit more then he liked. Problem is, he just does not like to be brushed after bath and I am afraid that if I do not do it then later it is going to be even much harder to finish brushing him. Plust is it a good example to give him that if he does not like somehting I will back off? So it is like a circle. And again, even when pushed, a good dog will not bite, in my humble opinion. I do not believe that brushing was painful, probably a bit uncomfortable.
> Muzzle is the last resource I will go to, if absolutely have to. Hope it is not going to go so far. I still feel that I have to at list train him to use muzzle. With his drama king personality it is not going to be easy


Any dog will bite. My most accepting dog ever - I pulled porcupine quills from his feet without a growl or a struggle, just a whimper, would have bit if the circumstances were right. His sister - also a fantastic dog - struggled a bit while I pulled her quills out and needed restraint. If I had pushed either dog too fast, yes, they would have bit. Does her struggling make her a bad dog? No more than me whining when someone pulls a splinter from me makes me a bad human!

Don't think of it as give it in. Think of it as being respectful of fear and building trust. If you were terrified of spiders and someone threw a bucket of non-venomous spiders over you, and said 'suck it up, they won't hurt you!" Would you trust them the next time they had a bucket in their arms and walked over to you? Or would you panic, try and run away, and maybe hit them if they cornered you and if they still throw the bucket, maybe next time you see them with the bucket, you try and kick them in the crotch, punch them in the nose, etc. Some people and dogs freeze and learn learned helplessness, others fight back. It's a circle, but it's a spiral downwards.

It doesn't matter that it isn't dangerous or doesn't hurt, just that the dog is scared. Training isn't possible in a place of fear.

First - I suggest a short clip while you deal with this. Short clip means you can brush for desensitization not our of necessity.

Then, a few days after the trauma of the clip subsides, grab the brush. Does he run away? Call him,give him treats. If he doesn't run away, what happens if you pet him? Watch body language. If he tenses, back up to the last stage where he trusted you. Maybe that just means having a brush in the room while you hang out. Work on respecting the signs of fear/discomfort long before a bite happens.
Back off, go back to doing the thing he was ok with.

For example, if I am working on knots in Annie's tail, I will do a few strokes on her knot free back then a couple on her tail (holding the hair between my fingers to prevent too much tugging) and when I see she is finding it difficult, go back and brush an easy area again for a while then go back to the tail. If she protested after 6 strokes the last time (might just be a tensing up), I may only do 4 before switching back to the easier areas for a while. Maybe I only do one stroke!

Lets go back to the bucket of spiders and pretend your friend has realized you are petrified of spiders and that was a bad idea. Instead of throwing spiders at you, he decides to help. Maybe, since you are afraid of the bucket, he shows you the bucket is empty from across the room, and you are confident enough to check that it is. Another day, he brings a spider in a jar, and puts it on the shelf on the other side of the room so you can see it. The next day, maybe, with his encouragement, you go look at the spider together, another day, you go outside and he puts the spider in his hand. Maybe a week later, you are confident enough to pick up the jar yourself. Maybe after a year, he films a YouTube video with you dumping a bucket of spiders on yourself and laughing. Ok, it's pressing the metaphor a bit, but the idea is to get the dog to the point where the bucket of spiders is mildly distasteful, not something that provokes a flight or fight response.

Over time, when he doesn't get pushed past threshold, his fear should decrease, and you will be able to go further. It's a spiral upwards. Over about a year I went from having a dog who snapped and tried to bite while clipping her nails to having a dog that follows me when I get out the nail clippers and lies on her side! Treats helped, but respecting signs of fear and going slow did more than that.

I would suggest possibly a different groomer as well.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I think Basil may be thinking about a thread of mine. I know I have talked about the utility of muzzle accptance training. It is important for emergencies and can be useful for dealing with other uncomfortable situations. I have taught and every now and again refreshed training all of our dogs to accept a basket muzzle. I use the baskerville muzzle mentioned by Ava. I have also talked about the importance of teaching puppies to accept grooming routines. Training muzzle acceptance can be part of that. I take the view of being proactive as far superior to reacting to difficult situations where going over threshold becomes part of the picture. IMO putting a muzzle on a dog that is going to bite otherwise is not giving in and letting the pup think he has a victory it is an effective management strategy to keep everyone safe.


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

For Want of Poodle said:


> For example, if I am working on knots in Annie's tail, I will do a few strokes on her knot free back then a couple on her tail (holding the hair between my fingers to prevent too much tugging) and when I see she is finding it difficult, go back and brush an easy area again for a while then go back to the tail. If she protested after 6 strokes the last time (might just be a tensing up), I may only do 4 before switching back to the easier areas for a while. Maybe I only do one stroke!


I do this too with Oona. She loves having her back and chest brushed, especially now that its shorter and is more of a scratch-fest/massage. When she was little she tried to bite the brush a lot (more playful than scared though) and we worked through it. Toenail clipping is another story. She is a lot less comfortable with having be hold her ticklish toes. Same deal though, work sooo slowly. A few times I only got one toenail clipped a tiny bit (in exchange for many treats). It makes it hard to keep track of what I've done. But I figure having uneven toenails is better than a scared dog and in the long run I hope to have her learn that it's no big deal.


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## Brownie_mom (Dec 1, 2020)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Any dog will bite. My most accepting dog ever - I pulled porcupine quills from his feet without a growl or a struggle, just a whimper, would have bit if the circumstances were right. His sister - also a fantastic dog - struggled a bit while I pulled her quills out and needed restraint. If I had pushed either dog too fast, yes, they would have bit. Does her struggling make her a bad dog? No more than me whining when someone pulls a splinter from me makes me a bad human!
> 
> Don't think of it as give it in. Think of it as being respectful of fear and building trust. If you were terrified of spiders and someone threw a bucket of non-venomous spiders over you, and said 'suck it up, they won't hurt you!" Would you trust them the next time they had a bucket in their arms and walked over to you? Or would you panic, try and run away, and maybe hit them if they cornered you and if they still throw the bucket, maybe next time you see them with the bucket, you try and kick them in the crotch, punch them in the nose, etc. Some people and dogs freeze and learn learned helplessness, others fight back. It's a circle, but it's a spiral downwards.
> 
> ...


FWoP - You have no idea how on target your spider example is. The two things that I really hate are roaches and spiders. I have no issues with mice or rats, like some people do, but spiders....brrrrrrrr...... 
On a serious note - I got the point. Need more patience. Have to admit, patience is not really my thing. I have a tendency to back-out of the situation when I do not get fast results. And I guess I was lucky with my past dogs - they were really obedient, no biting or bathroom issues. May be I was younger and my patience level was better, who knows. Or perhaps poodles need more attention then other dogs.....
I really love my little monster. He is the sweetest and handsome dog ever. Just need to know what to do to get some of his issues under control.


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## Brownie_mom (Dec 1, 2020)

Basil_the_Spoo said:


> How long is his coat? Short?


He has relatively long coat. Right now it is probably over 2" - time for grooming. I will ask to cut it shorter 😭😢😥. His coat is so pretty, it is so hard to give it up. I know this is just a coat and it will grow back, but still......


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

May not be relevant but what type of brush and comb do you use? Does he react negatively to the brushing/combing anywhere on his body or in specific areas?


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I think for now I would just have him shaved down and keep him this way. It will give you time to desensitize him to being handled. While he is shaved down take him to the groomer at least every 4 weeks to be handled while you also handle a use a soft brush on him at home. Maybe on your lap while giving him treats. Perhaps after a few months, he will learn not to fear the grooming and perhaps you can keep his coat longer at that point. My neighbor has a rescue multi poo. That poor dog had really been thru an awful time, when she got her her front leg had been severely broken, to the point where vet wanted to amputate it. Another vet stepped in and felt he could save it. He did and the dog has full use of her leg. She also hates to be groomed or brushed. Her owner took her several times to my groomer (who is very very good) and she is better now. Its probably been over a year getting her to this point. Certainly doesn't love it but no longer tries to bite, and she just keeps her short.


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## Brownie_mom (Dec 1, 2020)

Rose n Poos said:


> May not be relevant but what type of brush and comb do you use? Does he react negatively to the brushing/combing anywhere on his body or in specific areas?


He hates the slicker brush, so I stoped using it long ago. He was much better with the comb, but lately he started biting it, perhaps I was not gentle enough?-Not sure. He is much better with the pin brush, the one that has the tiny round ends, but it is not really usefull when his coat is still a bit wet after the bath. So I was using the comb when he got all wired up an bit my husband. He was mouthing me while I was brushing him, but not really hard. Then I asked my husband to hold him while I was taking care of his behind and tale, and here we go - hard bite.


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## Brownie_mom (Dec 1, 2020)

Mufar42 said:


> I think for now I would just have him shaved down and keep him this way. It will give you time to desensitize him to being handled. While he is shaved down take him to the groomer at least every 4 weeks to be handled while you also handle a use a soft brush on him at home. Maybe on your lap while giving him treats. Perhaps after a few months, he will learn not to fear the grooming and perhaps you can keep his coat longer at that point. My neighbor has a rescue multi poo. That poor dog had really been thru an awful time, when she got her her front leg had been severely broken, to the point where vet wanted to amputate it. Another vet stepped in and felt he could save it. He did and the dog has full use of her leg. She also hates to be groomed or brushed. Her owner took her several times to my groomer (who is very very good) and she is better now. Its probably been over a year getting her to this point. Certainly doesn't love it but no longer tries to bite, and she just keeps her short.


Hi Mufar, what area are you in? Just wondering if I can take Ruger to your groomer if you are not far from where we are. I am between NJ and SW FL. 
I will shave him down for now, except his head and ears - he does not have any issues when I am brushing his head. Nails are more challenging. I got three of his legs done this weekend, and the right leg is still not done - taking time on it. He does not try to bite, just wining like is being killed when I clip his nails. For the record, I never got too short on him or heart him while clipping nails. Perhaps I should try a nail grinder?


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

FWIW, my boys were just short of the point of being fired by the groomer due to overall bad behavior, biting and snapping at hands and tools, whether body groom or nails. The vet did have to muzzle Remo to do his nails one time when we were in for something else. I'd tried desensitizing since very early on but I knew I was going to have to learn to do it all myself.

I'll start with the reassuring news but it's taken over a year of doing bath and some grooming every 2 weeks to get here . Other than the reassurance that things can get better, the rest of this may not even apply, but I'm throwing it in jic. 

Bathing isn't a favorite activity but is well tolerated. Clipping the body is a breeze, clipping the sanitaries is well tolerated. Face and feet not so much, so that's still a work in progress. They no longer attempt to bite, just a lot of "don't touch that" by pulling away. A few months ago they both just sort of stopped fussing horribly over nail clipping, still not overly cooperative but I can get each of them done without drama and fairly quickly now. 

I don't remember if this came up but make sure all the tangles are combed out before bathing and drying. For the combout, and I try to do some every day when we're having relax time in the evening, I use the wide tooth comb first, then sometimes a tipped pin brush, then finish with the Paw Brothers Small Soft Pin Universal Type Curved Slicker With Coated Pin Tips (I also have a medium size). I had a non-tipped non-flexible slicker which they never tolerated. Now, with Raindrops mention of the soft pin type, it's a sleepytime inducer. 

After the bath and toweling off and we're up on the little table, the first tool I grab is a boar bristle human brush. This isn't on anyone else's recommended list that I remember but it works for us. I spray conditioner and use the boar brush to sweep thru their coat. I also use that brush for a bit when I first start drying. Next I go to the tipped pin brush, then the greyhound comb, and finish off with the soft pin coated tip slicker. I sometimes go back and forth among these but starting with a tangle free coat before the bath really helps.


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## Brownie_mom (Dec 1, 2020)

Rose n Poos said:


> FWIW, my boys were just short of the point of being fired by the groomer due to overall bad behavior, biting and snapping at hands and tools, whether body groom or nails. The vet did have to muzzle Remo to do his nails one time when we were in for something else. I'd tried desensitizing since very early on but I knew I was going to have to learn to do it all myself.
> 
> I'll start with the reassuring news but it's taken over a year of doing bath and some grooming every 2 weeks to get here . Other than the reassurance that things can get better, the rest of this may not even apply, but I'm throwing it in jic.
> 
> ...


Thank you Rose N Poos, this helped a lot. I did not know about the soft brush - will get it ASAP. Also I did not brush before the bath time and probably this is why he was really unhappy with the after bath combing. He is good with the bath. As you mentioned, well tolerated. A bit of the drama with the nails, but manageable. 
I took him to the groomer today and asked to clip him short. She left about 1/2" of the coat and he looks great - picture attached. Groomer told me that he was a bit difficult, but nothing drastic. At list he did not bite her. 
Here is my baby with his first Big Boy Hair Cut


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

He looks great!


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Looking very handsome!

Definitely getting the tangles eliminated before the bath helps a lot. Otherwise they can knot even tighter after wetting and drying and can start interlocking with adjacent fur.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Rose n Poos said:


> Looking very handsome!
> 
> Definitely getting the tangles eliminated before the bath helps a lot. Otherwise they can knot even tighter after wetting and drying and can start interlocking with adjacent fur.


I actually have to do this with my own hair, too. If I wait until after showering to brush it, it’s torture. You definitely don’t want to subject your poodle to that.


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## Brownie_mom (Dec 1, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I actually have to do this with my own hair


My hair a much shorter then Ruger's, so I did not feel his pain


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## Brownie_mom (Dec 1, 2020)

I found the slicker recommended by Rose N Poos at Ryan's Pets Supplies. Ordering it now.

Thank you ALL for your responses. As always, very helpful.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

He’s seriously looking so delightful in his new hairdo.


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## Brownie_mom (Dec 1, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> He’s seriously looking so delightful in his new hairdo.


Real transformation from a puppy to a yang man. It feels that he even acts differently (I know that it is my imagination, but still....).


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## Pat Mc (Sep 27, 2020)

First, I have to say that Brownie is gorgeous!  

Muzzle training is an important life skill for every dog, IMHO. You never know when you'll need to muzzle your dog in an emergency or for certain procedures. The Muzzle Up Project has easy-to-follow instructions on how to slowly condition the muzzle so that it's not an unpleasant experience for the dog. When I saw how stressful it was for my little geriatric toy poodle when the vet muzzled her (even though it only happened once in the 8+ years she was with us), I bought a basket muzzle and trained her so she wouldn't have to go through that again. 

There are also some really good books and online courses on cooperative care and husbandry to help you get Brownie comfortable with grooming, vet procedures, nail trims, etc. What is Cooperative Care?

Wishing you the best!


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## Cherie7714 (Dec 1, 2020)

Brownie_mom said:


> Hi All,
> I was just wondering if anyone used a muzzle on your poodle. I have a mini who does not hesitate to bite if he is uncomfortable. He is about 7 month old now and we are having the biting issues since he was a little puppy. I am working on it, but his groomer complains that he tried to bite, so she cannot groom him as well as she would like to. He also bit my husband yesterday when I was brushing him after the bath. Not really hard, he for sure can do much more damage, but hard enough to have a long bloody cut on my hubby arm.
> So I was thinking may be I should get a soft muzzle to use it while grooming?
> Appreciate your feed-back.


I've had 3 standard poodles and never used a muzzle. Sometimes when they are teething they will chew on anything and everything but I've never had a poodle who broke the skin. I think you need to talk to a trainer and you might also want to talk to the breeder and explain the problem. I have heard of some poodles being aggressive but they are few and far between.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

Brownie looks gorgeously smushable!
Pat Mc had some good suggestions. There is also a FB group called Cooperative Training for Grooming and Veterinary Care that might be helpful for you.


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## ihavestandards (Jul 27, 2020)

I just wanted to say props to you for looking into muzzle training and being a responsible owner. So many owners are irresponsible and unwilling to accept what needs their dog might have.


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## Brownie_mom (Dec 1, 2020)

ihavestandards said:


> I just wanted to say props to you for looking into muzzle training and being a responsible owner. So many owners are irresponsible and unwilling to accept what needs their dog might have.


I just feel that I missed something in his trainig. He does not alsways know what is wright and what is wrong. He does not think that biting is wrong. Again, first time I have a dog who does not hesitate to bite. No matter how many times I tried to tell him 'No bite' - he still grabs my hands in play. Not really hard, almost soft mouth, but I can definitely feel it. And yes, I did stop the game and put him on timeout, but that did not help too much. And if he is not comfortable he will bite harder.
Again, he is not aggressive. He loves people and is very friendly. And he is a sweet-hard, except his biting habits. 
This is why I am considering muzzle training.


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## Brownie_mom (Dec 1, 2020)

Cherie7714 said:


> I've had 3 standard poodles and never used a muzzle. Sometimes when they are teething they will chew on anything and everything but I've never had a poodle who broke the skin. I think you need to talk to a trainer and you might also want to talk to the breeder and explain the problem. I have heard of some poodles being aggressive but they are few and far between.


I had a Germain shepherd that was police work trained and we had to use muzzle because he could bite really hard in certain situations. He would never bite his people, so. He was doing the line work and lost one of his eyes to the gunfire. But at home he was as sweet as a pie. I could put my hand in his mouth without any hesitation.
The last dog I had was a standard schnauzer and he had no biting bone in his body. I could do anything to him without even thinking that he may bite. I could trust him to be around small kids etc.
I cannot trust Ruger to be around kids without a really close supervision. He grabs everything with his mouth and sometimes it may be painful. He actually grabbed my 7 years old granddaughter's ankle in a play and now she is afraid to visit. Again, he is still a puppy and I hope that we can take this behavior under control. I did work with the trainer, but problem is he was bahaving really proper with trainer around. He is super smart and knows....


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

Given that he hasn't modeled the behavior around your previous trainer I would try to film situations where he is modeling the problem behavior so that you can show future trainers. There may be differences in how you behave around him when there's a trainer there or he may not model the same behavior around trainers due to the different energy during a session. It helps to be able to see the behavior and the circumstances around it. I wouldn't try to provoke the behavior, but maybe you or your husband can start filming each other and him when you notice it's starting?


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