# Nail frustration



## Newport (Jul 16, 2014)

I clip Violet's nails 3 to 6 times a month. My intention is to trim the ends a couple times a week, but sometimes I don't get to it. This seems like a lot of nail clipping to me, but I am often reminded to do my weekly clipping by the sound of her nails on the floor. I've been told that if you can hear their nails that they are too long. 

I have also been told that frequent clipping helps the quick to either recede or stay appropriately short, but that hasn't been my experience. Violet's nails are black, so I use the method of a tiny trim, check the color, take off another tiny layer until I get to the "jelly bean layer" where the color changes. However careful I am, I still make her bleed more often than I would like :-( I wish it would never happen.

Violet tolerates nail clippers okay and gets lots of treats and praise. I have a dremel but she freaks out when I place it against her nail. It has been a couple months since I've tried it, so I should try again. Every month that goes by she has improved on her grooming behavior and tolerance.

So how often do you clip your dog's nails? Any tips on dealing with black nails? How do you get a dog past a fear of the dremel? She seems completely fine with the dremel being on and near her, but when it touches her nail it is game over.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Will be following this thread. Peggy has a few black nails, and both my husband and I are afraid to touch them. We’re considering doing monthly trips to the vet for nail trims, but I don’t want her to start dreading her visits. Currently she loves everyone at the clinic.

Does Violet seem to be in pain when you accidentally make her bleed?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

All Poppy's are black, and several of Sophy's. Poppy is OK about nail clipping, although I have quicked her several times despite all my care; Sophy hates it, especially having her dew claws trimmed. The result is that all my good intentions of little and often tend to fade after a while, and they get too long so we have to start all over again. I do have a nail grinder but Sophy doesn't like that either, despite a very slow introduction with copious chicken, and it takes longer than a quick snip. I think the problem is that she has pulled nails in the past - one dew claw is still very odd - so is anxious about pain. And it is very difficult to cut dew claws on a long haired dog without twisting them slightly - she screams at the mere thought of that... Plus her nails are very thick and tough for such a small dog. So I too will be watching for good ideas!


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Renn has black nails, I dremel them and he is fine with it. I find that if you actually take hold, best you can, of the nail while dremeling it goes much better as there is less vibration. You really don't want the nail vibrating as you dremel that makes them uncomfortable, at least in my limited experience. I do his nails about every 2-3 weeks or if I hear clicking of nails in the house.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

While we have the groomer clip Bobby’s nails I am in the process introducing him to the dremmel/grinder so I can keep his nails shorter between groomings. He doesn’t like it yet but we are making progress. I think you can get the nails shorter, smoother and the risk of bleeding is way less. Bobby has both colors of nails. We used to grind our Great Dane’s nails. Yes, as posted above, hold the nail firmly so it doesn’t wiggle as you grind. There is a sweet spot of pressure too. You don’t want to press too hard with the grinder but you need to put enough pressure so it doesn’t bounce off the nail. Like anything, there is a learning curve.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

I probably trim nails at my house every 6-8 weeks, but I get them nice and short.
I agree with holding the nail- actually that can help with regular trimmers too.
My preference is for pliers style over guillotine style, easier to see what you are doing and to fine-tune the trim.
The best way to encourage the quick to recede is to do an angled trim- like this:










You can get closer to the quick without hitting it.
The method is to take the 'top' off, and then each side. Repeat until you see, as Newport aptly described it, the 'jellybean layer'.
Raffi is due for a trim so I will try get some pics to demonstrate.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

I took pictures one day of Basil's nails after the vet clipped them to use as reference on where to stop since I can do a better job, same more time, save more money, and buy enough chicken thighs to make Basil love doing it at home for $20/visit. 2 visits/month $480/year lol common that's a good chunk of dough (plus the depreciation on the car to drive to the vet, but we won't get nitty gritty.)

I pick Basil up and she stands on our grooming station (on her cage). Her natural reaction is to pull her hand back due to the vibrations of the dremel. My "holding hand" will be under her foot spreading out the webbing of her feet like they might be if your trying to trim the hair there. My thumb on the same hand wraps to grab around her specific toe nail like a clamp. There's a goldilocks amount of pressure where the nail won't jiggle much and Basil isn't using all her might to fight me.

A bowl of chicken right next to me and I take .5-1mm off at time before pausing for a chicken break. Very conservative amounts. Lots of chicken. Lots of love.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

I’ve been doing Starla’s nails every 5-10 days, but should be more consistent so they stay nice and short. Yesterday she pitched a huge fit on paws one and three, fussed a bit on paw 2, and was fine on paw 4. I had an overgrown bull terrier with nails I let get too long because he was such a pita and so strong (100 lb tank!), and I don’t ever want a repeat. I think I’m going to put a calendar next to my grooming table so I can be better about sticking to a schedule for grooming items as we both learn. I dremel and have always found holding the nail itself, if it’s big enough, is much more comfortable for the dog, like others have said.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

I mostly clip rather than dremmel. Misha would not stand the dremmel for a long time. Recently I started working on him with it. He is getting better.

If you don't have miller's forge clippers, get some. They are the best and make a difference. I don't use the jelly bean method as I always end up too close to the quick. Even if it isn't bleeding Misha says it still hurts. Instead I flip the paw over and look at where the edge of the nail starts to hollow out. That is safe to clip. I'll take a photo today. Even if I have Misha's nails clipped perfectly close to the quick they still tap the floor when he walks. But when he stands they are high off the ground.

To work on the dremmel I use a grooming hammock to restrain. I do hold each nail and just tap the dremmel to it then give a treat for each time I do this. Gradually you can lengthen how long you hold the dremmel to the nail.

People say to get nails to show length you must dremmel every two days. I suspect they must be barely hitting the quick each time. The dremmel cauterizes the quick if it touches it. But just clipping near it doesn't seem to help me get it to recede.


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## Newport (Jul 16, 2014)

Thank you all for such helpful tips and friendly support!

I also use the Millers Forge clippers Raindrops describes. They are very sharp and allow for small accurate trimming at various angles. They are also inexpensive. I will begin inspecting the bottom of the nail first when determining my cut point- thanks for that tip.

I will try holding/stabilizing the nail while dremeling, along with a bowl of chicken for treats. If that doesn’t move us closer to dremel acceptance I’ll try her in Navy’s grooming sling. I think dremeling will get the best results in the end. A lifetime of hitting a toenail against hard floors has got to eventually lead to sore/arthritic toes, so I will persist in keeping them short.

Fjm, your mention of dew claw trim struggles is similar to my own with Navy. Violet doesn’t have them and I have yet to feel sad about it.

So, some fine tuning of my technique and upping my treat value hopefully will be better for my poodles. The pug, who accepts any procedure that includes food, is easy to dremel.


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## Newport (Jul 16, 2014)

I forgot to say, regarding pain from quicked nails, sometimes she expresses pain other times not. My impression from her is that she doesn’t like being quicked- and who can blame her? I always assume it hurts. I keep styptic powder on hand that has a pain reliever in it, and that seems to help.

For Navy, who has some mild arthritis in his old age and often does not like his legs or feet touched at all, I give pain meds before grooming. He is quite vocal when quicked and we both cry. I do not clip him as frequently as Violet because of this. His nails are too long. I no longer give him clean feet because holding his feet/legs for grooming is painful, and it’s harder to trim nails on hairy feet. If I don’t touch him except for a hand under his belly, I can use scissors to trim his legs and around his foot. He has to be in the sling to trim the bottom of his feet and for nails. If I thought a groomer could keep him more comfortable I would do it, but he is better at home.


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## Myleen (Apr 30, 2016)

Newport said:


> I clip Violet's nails 3 to 6 times a month. My intention is to trim the ends a couple times a week, but sometimes I don't get to it. This seems like a lot of nail clipping to me, but I am often reminded to do my weekly clipping by the sound of her nails on the floor. I've been told that if you can hear their nails that they are too long.
> I have also been told that frequent clipping helps the quick to either recede or stay appropriately short, but that hasn't been my experience. Violet's nails are black, so I use the method of a tiny trim, check the color, take off another tiny layer until I get to the "jelly bean layer" where the color changes. However careful I am, I still make her bleed more often than I would like :-( I wish it would never happen.
> Violet tolerates nail clippers okay and gets lots of treats and praise. I have a dremel but she freaks out when I place it against her nail. It has been a couple months since I've tried it, so I should try again. Every month that goes by she has improved on her grooming behavior and tolerance.
> So how often do you clip your dog's nails? Any tips on dealing with black nails? How do you get a dog past a fear of the dremel? She seems completely fine with the dremel being on and near her, but when it touches her nail it is game over.


I have done both clippers and Dremel. With Toby (he's 4 now) after experimenting with scissors, clippers, and a battery-operated Dremel... I found what really works best is the andis dremel and peanut butter.  It really makes a difference. My husband puts peanut butter on a large spoon... when I say go.. he lets Toby lick away... while I dremel. You learn where the quick is after doing it a few times... you see a chalk white circle. I will never go back to clippers.


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

My nail deal is clipping flat to pad base length (it gives me a great measurement to the quick) and then using a good quality metal nail file (people kind) to shorten up the length to shorter than touching floor and angle up slightly at tip. I should draw pictures probably. 🤣 It seems to be ok because my dogs let me do it without issues. Black nails are definitely the hardest but practice is key. Lots of treats for "good dog school", keep lots of styptic powder handy. If all else fails, a wad of Utter Ointment/Bag Balm or even Vick's VapoRub works great as a clotter to slow a bleeding quick. A paper towel wrapped around with some pressure. Good to go with antiseptic properties too. We don't have dew claw issues (or thumbs on front legs) as they are removed before 3 days old.


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## Jstanfill (Oct 22, 2020)

Newport said:


> I clip Violet's nails 3 to 6 times a month. My intention is to trim the ends a couple times a week, but sometimes I don't get to it. This seems like a lot of nail clipping to me, but I am often reminded to do my weekly clipping by the sound of her nails on the floor. I've been told that if you can hear their nails that they are too long.
> 
> I have also been told that frequent clipping helps the quick to either recede or stay appropriately short, but that hasn't been my experience. Violet's nails are black, so I use the method of a tiny trim, check the color, take off another tiny layer until I get to the "jelly bean layer" where the color changes. However careful I am, I still make her bleed more often than I would like :-( I wish it would never happen.
> 
> ...


Might want to let vet do it making your pet bleed to much not good thing , let pros handle it , I let my groomer do lexie nails and cut and bath


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

Jstanfill said:


> Might want to let vet do it making your pet bleed to much not good thing , let pros handle it , I let my groomer do lexie nails and cut and bath


Most of us prefer to let the pros do it.


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## Jstanfill (Oct 22, 2020)

Jilly SummerSunset said:


> Most of us prefer to let the pros do it.


My groomer is awesome does a package deal bath bathe, anal glands, nails, trim for 40 bucks


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

Jstanfill said:


> My groomer is awesome does a package deal bath bathe, anal glands, nails, trim for 40 bucks


You must not live in NewEngland or you have a small dog. 🤣🐩 Most start at $65 if you're lucky (puppy cut) for a SPOO. Petsmart or Petco groomers are minimum $125. 💲 😊


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## Jstanfill (Oct 22, 2020)

Jilly SummerSunset said:


> You must not live in NewEngland or you have a small dog. 🤣🐩 Most start at $65 if you're lucky (puppy cut) for a SPOO. Petsmart or Petco groomers are minimum $125. 💲 😊


Live in us and use a groomer , don’t use petsmart , don’t trust them , lady that grooms her was recommended by friend does it all for 40 bucks


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

The issue with only using a groomer is that dogs need their nails clipped every two weeks, and most people don't take them in that often. Also many people like me do all their own grooming at home.

There is no guarantee the vet or the groomer isn't quicking the nails. Vet techs are really really bad at it because they often have little training in this. I would not trust a vet to clip Misha. And I would only trust a really experienced groomer. Black nails are hard.


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## Jstanfill (Oct 22, 2020)

I guess to each their own way ,


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I will be watching this thread. Nail problems here. I swear last time I took him to be groomed they didn't do them. I will be taking him Monday!


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Jstanfill said:


> Live in us and use a groomer , don’t use petsmart , don’t trust them , lady that grooms her was recommended by friend does it all for 40 bucks


Do you really have a poodle? Your photo doesn't look like it. Standard Poodles are probably the most expensive.
Mine is $75 and I live in a small town. Even 12 years ago it wasn't 40.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

The light at the end of the dremmel has me thinking, can you see the quick on a black nail if you take your cell phone light up to it?

Basil has very opaque white/brown nails, but I was able to see the nail anatomy up close for the first time now when she was laying in bed with me with my cell phone light. Maybe it's a way for black nail poo owners to see without guess and checking.


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

I got really, really lucky with Misty since she had a couple of nails that were white (sadly, her last remaining white nail seems to be fading to black, so no more cheating for me) and I was able to determine where the quick was based off of that as I learned to clip them. But with Fluffy... His nails are all black. No reference point. But you can still sort of see the quick as you go along--once the nail looks really dark in the center, that's when you should stop. This video I linked below is basically how I clip his nails (and Misty now, too). Have never quicked him (no jinx no jinx no jinx):


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

FloofyPoodle said:


> I got really, really lucky with Misty since she had a couple of nails that were white (sadly, her last remaining white nail seems to be fading to black, so no more cheating for me) and I was able to determine where the quick was based off of that as I learned to clip them. But with Fluffy... His nails are all black. No reference point. But you can still sort of see the quick as you go along--once the nail looks really dark in the center, that's when you should stop. This video I linked below is basically how I clip his nails (and Misty now, too). Have never quicked him (no jinx no jinx no jinx):


Very helpful video, but even he quicks her! Eeeeeek.


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Very helpful video, but even he quicks her! Eeeeeek.


Yeahhh I winced a little at that part. He takes a little too much off at a time, in my opinion, and it gives me the frightens!


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## Jstanfill (Oct 22, 2020)

kontiki said:


> Do you really have a poodle? Your photo doesn't look like it. Standard Poodles are probably the most expensive.
> Mine is $75 and I live in a small town. Even 12 years ago it wasn't 40.


I have a cavapoo , half poodle. And half King Charles spaniel


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

I have 2 sets of clippers and a dremel, and even after all these years, clipping nails scares me. I've watched videos, and I still mess up. I know I don't cut them at the right angle. Miracle will allow me to do all grooming, but she is really bothered about her nails, and I have only made her bleed one time. I am thinking something happened in her past with nail clipping. Before she would put her teeth on me and not bite down, but recently she started biting down. I guess I would rather bring her in than muzzle her at home.


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## vandog (Mar 30, 2019)

I trimmed my spoo’s nails (all black) once a week at least. I would have her lay on the couch with paws hanging over and I would sit on the floor with a light and trim them a little bit at a time. I did quick her a few times despite trying not to but would go back to treating and massaging paws for a few days to keep it a “happy” experience as much as possible. 

I tried the Dremel but wasn’t a big fan for her because it took longer than the clippers. however, it works great for doing acrylic nails on humans! I found that out during the early months of COVID when the nail salons were closed and the drill I ordered got lost in transit.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

kontiki said:


> Do you really have a poodle? Your photo doesn't look like it. Standard Poodles are probably the most expensive.
> Mine is $75 and I live in a small town. Even 12 years ago it wasn't 40.


I pay 60 for a standard, plus I always give a $10 tip so thats 70. every 4 weeks. It would be higher if I didn't keep him groomed every 4 weeks.


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## Newport (Jul 16, 2014)

Thank you everyone for chiming in with your thoughts, tips, and tricks. It was also strangely good to hear from some of you that discomfort with clipping nails has led to delaying the task past 2 week intervals at a maximum. I have been there. Nail clipping, especially black nails, is hard. We get better at hard things by doing them while at the same time learning to improve. I am at the place in facing the Black Nail Challenge that I am moving past inertia and “groomers only do it” to taking it on even though I am not perfect. This thread has helped me add improvements which are likely to help the dogs’ experience. Also, my long view is to maintain structural health for my dogs by enabling them to stand and move with their feet in the proper position because their nails are the correct length.


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## johnmat (Jan 4, 2021)

I could recommend to choose nail grinders with guard, it's working better and clim so easy.


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

You can teach your dog to trim his own nails:









Building a Dog Nail Scratchboard | Dog Training Nation


Nail scratchboards are great for getting your dog to trim her own nails. Learn how to build a nail scratchboard for your dog by visiting our website.




www.dogtrainingnation.com


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## Ava. (Oct 21, 2020)

My dog has white, brown, and black nails. I clip the white ones first and match up the rest to that one. My dog isn't patient enough to do the teeny bit at a time method.


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## Newport (Jul 16, 2014)

I had to come back here to say that I finally tried dremeling Violet’s nails again and it was a success. The meat tidbits and being a few months older were game changers, I guess. It will take a while before I have them looking great but I was able to shorten every nail without quicking her, and she was moderately cooperative (the meat helped a lot, Basil). My confidence shot up, so I even tried doing Navy. I did have to put him in the grooming sling because he wanted to bite the dremel, but I got all of his nails shorter without too much fuss.

Having a snood was helpful. Raindrops your black nail tip of looking at the underneath part of the nail helped me feel like I wasn’t flying blind. 

Thank you all for the advice and tips and moral support. I feel like I’ve taken a successful step in improving my nail care skills thanks to you.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

Every time I dremel Wilson's nails, I am so grateful to Kathy Esio King (Wilson's breeder) for introducing her puppies to being groomed before they go to their new homes. Wilson has always just stood on the table, like trimming nails is no big deal. I know it takes a lot of time and energy to get an entire litter of pups used to being groomed, but we reap the benefits of the breeder's hard work for the dog's entire life.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Thanks ReRaven! I had never heard about having our dogs do their own nails. This is a more beginning video:





And this: If you like organ music you may like this better than I did


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