# Fed raw for the first time today



## elaine amj (Jun 9, 2013)

My 11lb, 4 yr old mini poodle that I recently adopted has been super picky about his food, turning up his nose at his kibble. Today, I fed him raw and he loved it!

It all started when I researched buying him high quality kibble. A local store had a buy 1 get 1 free deal on a grain-free Nutram - and from what I can tell, it is a very decent quality kibble. 

As I researched, I kept coming across info on raw. At first I said, no way - too messy and gross. But I couldn't shake the thought. This morning, he turned up his nose at everything and finally I pulled out some ground chicken and gave him a few ounces. He gulped it down. This evening, we went out and bought him some chicken wings (small ones).

Took it out back and put it in his dish. At first he immediately grabbed it and moved to the side to eat it. He couldn't figure out what to do - licked it all over but as it became covered in grass, he didn't like it much anymore. Finally I washed it off and offered it again - this time I held on to it and coaxed him to keep trying. After some licking, he tried nibbling at it and eventually got a small piece of meat. After 3-4 mins of this, he finally got his back teeth on it and managed to chew off a small piece of bone! I was so excited! He came back for more and eventually manage to eat half the chicken wing (the drummette part). 

I put the rest in his dish and he grabbed it and immediately tried bringing it in the house. I chased him off the back porch and refused to let him in. The poor thing kept pacing back and forth for over 5 mins. I finally took it from him and put it back into his dish. He still didn't want to eat it, just grabbed it and again tried going back in the house. Looked like he was full and trying to stash it in the house? I took it away again (he was very reluctant to give it up) and packed it away in the fridge for tomorrow.

How much should an 11lb mini eat a day? 2% is about 3.5 oz but how much IS that?

Should I give him the half for breakfast? Or just serve him one meal a day (he's been eating extremely little for almost a week now because he's been picky about kibble). He might do very well on just 1 meal a day?

What else should I offer him? I know he should get about 10% organ meat so I plan to pick some up. Feeling nervous about this raw food thing, but excited too!

Also, what do you do to clean them up afterwards? The thought of raw meat when he licks us is rather gross.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I have my toy eat on a towel inside. He stays on the towel while eating. I feed twice a day. To figure out weight get a kitchen scale. My toy is very active is I feed him 4% of his body weight daily. Swizzle stays fairly clean eating raw. As to the licking issue kibble kisses are just as likely to be yucky as raw ones.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

If you prefer to feed him outside, a towel, square of carpet or a door mat might help - my dogs like to hold the food down while they tear at it, and have always preferred to do so on carpet. I have an easily washed throw on the floor, and with a bit of perseverance have taught them to "keep it on the blanket".

I've found chicken wings weigh around 3 - 5 ounces, depending on the size. If you are moving into all raw feeding, I found the advice on DogAware.com: Diet & Health Info for Man's Best Friend to be excellent.


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## elaine amj (Jun 9, 2013)

Thank you all - I'm going to have to look into giving him some type of surface that doesn't gross me out. I can't see myself feeding him outdoors in the winter.

I'm still very unsure about this whole raw thing - debating doing half kibble half raw. The only thing is...no idea how to get this super picky dog to eat kibble after he's had the awesomeness of raw. He liked the chicken wing, but needed some coaxing to eat it. I had to hold it for him *eeewww*

Also, we travel. If we have to leave him with a petsitter, no way would I expect them to feed him raw. And if we bring him with us, feeding him raw on our travels might get a little challenging. Right now if we go somewhere over dinnertime, I just bring along his kibble and a bowl. Which is convenient.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

The nice thing about having him feed on a towel is that it is easy to throw into the wash. When traveling or on a vacation I feed Honest Kitchen, dehydrated raw. It is a powder and you just add water and stir. Very quick and easy.


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## elaine amj (Jun 9, 2013)

Right now we are doing a mix of kibble and raw and we'll see how things go. I kind of like the convenience of kibble and its ease when we travel. Plus, then I don't have to stress about a balanced diet. I am inclined towards the prey model (especially since Dim Sum doesn't like fruits and veggies) so we'll see. I might end up developing enough confidence to feed him without supplementing kibble.

I didn't feed him raw yesterday - we were in and out all day and just had no time. He ate a bit of kibble in the morning and ended up eating a decent amount of kibble in the evening.

I did feed him raw today (Day 3). He had a couple of bites of kibble in the morning and then 1/8 of a cup of kibble to start his dinner. I followed that with offering the half a wing he didn't finish on Day 1. 

He took it and couldn't figure out what to do next. He really wanted to bring it inside the house. I set up a tablecloth on the grass - which he liked, kinda. I took it away (he didn't want to give it up) and held it out to him. Eventually he licked at it and took a few nibbles and then dug in. He looked for more after he was done so I pulled out another wing.

He refused to take the 2nd wing - used his nose to push his dish away (stinker!!). After about 3-5 mins with my holding it out for him, he deigned to take a few licks and soon chewed enthusiastically as I cheered him on. 

It was funny, over the course of eating the wing, he took two to three 5-min breaks to just lay down - he would even push it away with his nose. With patience, he would come back each time for another go at it. Maybe he would get tired?

Took him over a half hour to eat the 1.5 wings. UGH. That said, he was getting better near the end and eating a lot faster. I'm still holding the wing, cheering him on, and coaxing him when he loses interest. This is incredibly gross and I am officially insane ROFL! He needs to figure out how to eat all by himself really soon!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Hahaha! I did that too the first few times I fed Molly raw chicken, but now she's on her own! It takes longer for dogs to eat raw...they have to chew it really good rather than like when they eat kibble they don't really have to chew too much! So DO expect him to take longer to get thru the chicken! I also feed half raw half kibble. Dim sum is about the same size as Molly and Molly eats about 1/4 cup a day of kibble and either 1 chicken wing, or a half of a chicken thigh or dehyrated raw food(1/4 cup) per day and because she doesn't live a very active life I try to cut back on treats because she was putting on too much weight lately(no more "a bite for me, a bite for Molly LOL!) Don't worry about him not finishing his meal....they won't starve themselves if they are normally active & healthy!
I also feed on a washable mat but before I give Molly her chicken I rinse it off and pat it dry so it's not bloody...she stays pretty clean now.


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## elaine amj (Jun 9, 2013)

MollyMuiMa said:


> Hahaha! I did that too the first few times I fed Molly raw chicken, but now she's on her own! It takes longer for dogs to eat raw...they have to chew it really good rather than like when they eat kibble they don't really have to chew too much! So DO expect him to take longer to get thru the chicken! I also feed half raw half kibble. Dim sum is about the same size as Molly and Molly eats about 1/4 cup a day of kibble and either 1 chicken wing, or a half of a chicken thigh or dehyrated raw food(1/4 cup) per day and because she doesn't live a very active life I try to cut back on treats because she was putting on too much weight lately(no more "a bite for me, a bite for Molly LOL!) Don't worry about him not finishing his meal....they won't starve themselves if they are normally active & healthy!
> I also feed on a washable mat but before I give Molly her chicken I rinse it off and pat it dry so it's not bloody...she stays pretty clean now.


Thanks - super helpful to know how much you are feeding her. He's learning how to eat RMB - and it's really cool seeing his chew and chew and chew! And no, he won't starve himself - he eats eventually. I do notice an energy drop when he's being stubborn about food though. Still, the raw thing somehow got him interested in his kibble again and he's eating it - as long as we add water. 

We'll see how tonight goes!


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## elaine amj (Jun 9, 2013)

Tonight I offered him a chicken wing. He nosed it away. I sat and held it out for him and after about 5 minutes of trying to turn his back on me, he finally gave it a few licks and started eating. He ate a bit faster, but as always took 2-3 breaks during the meal where he would nose the food away or just curl up to rest. I would sit and make lip smacking noises and eventually he would come back over to check it out. 

The last bit of the wing slipped out of my hand and after that he refused to finish it and I tossed it. 

Again, it took almost half an hour to feed him. 

I expected a lot more enthusiasm over raw meat but I guess I just have a dog who's not very food motivated. (crazy - especially since he is a rescue from a hoarder and the dogs often starved).


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I would try a chicken drumstick. Swizzle is not crazy about wings, I think the drumsticks are easier to eat.


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## elaine amj (Jun 9, 2013)

I'll have to give drumsticks a try - have to look for some small ones or just let him eat half or something. He might have to put up with wings for a bit though - hubby is not hugely enthusiastic about raw yet (thinks it will cost too much) and will surely grumble about buying more food for him. Took some coaxing to get him to agree to buy a small pack of wings. 

Can't wait to try liver/hearts/gizzards.

*ugh* I just remembered - I didn't take out a wing to defrost for him today. For sure I'll have to go home at lunchtime today


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

If you main reason for feeding kibble is the convenience when you travel, etc., you could always use dehydrated and freeze dried raw, too. It's dry and you just add warm water. There's Honest Kitchen or Stella & Chewy's. There are lots of options available to you.


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## elaine amj (Jun 9, 2013)

I checked out the dehydrated raw - I think hubby would have a fit! He's already grumbling that raw is going to cost more and I'm working to convince him it will cost about the same. 

I want to keep kibble in rotation for:

- convenience when we travel, out and about for the day, petsitters, or very short mealtime available. e.g. a couple of nights ago, we had a scant 5-10 minutes before we headed out again (brought him with us) so no time to feed him raw - he got kibble. 

- balanced diet. I'm still feeling unsure I can supply everything he needs (also admit that it feels like too much work when I read of all the different things I need to think about!)

- reasonable cost in comparison to other options (like dehydrated raw)

Last night he got his chicken wing and this morning he got a 1/4 cup of kibble.


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## elaine amj (Jun 9, 2013)

Tonight was DAY 4 and HE ATE HIS CHICKEN WING ALL BY HIMSELF!! This deserves a massive party as I no longer have to hold a gross RAW chicken wing for him. 

Hubby insisted on feeding him while we played tennis. We play tennis at a local school and we tied him up outside the courts in a small grassy nook no one ever goes to. We play tennis right next to him. At first, he nosed away his bowl with the wing. After 30 mins, we were giving up and decided to take him home to feed him. But DH went over and offered it again. FINALLY, the bratty dog started eating. And he ate ALL BY HIMSELF! I was so impressed. 

DH was right. I would have ended up babying him for a few more days. (and yes, DH made me do it out of the house because at home, I would have broken down and held out the wing). 

So he had his kibble this morning and his wing tonight. I have a sneaky suspicion I am going to have to cut down on his kibble. He is looking a little chunky on his bum. Ribs and waist are good - but his butt and thighs are fleshy. Don't know if Im being too excessive? Been looking at different sites to figure out how to tell but still not sure. Can a dog gain weight in several days? At his vet visit on Thursday, she said he was at a perfect weight. From about Sunday/Monday onwards, he has started to feel fleshy.


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## ItzaClip (Dec 1, 2010)

Nice new supplement that is meant to add to any food(raw/home cooked/kibble) to maximize its nutrient value is Omega alpha's "nutrify" this is a Canadian company. They make human/equine and canine supplements. Very nice line. I'm quite excited about it since it has even the green foods like spirulina in it. 

http://www.urbanjunglepets.com/Antioxidants-Omega_Alpha_Nutrify.html


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

I'm no expert on raw feeding, by any means, so take this with plenty of salt. Seems to me that a chicken wing, which is about 50% bone, might be too much bone for every day feeding. My dogs get meaty bones four or five times a week, with extra meat. Otherwise, they get constipated. They don't get kibble, though. Maybe that makes a difference?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I actually find raw/home cooked considerably cheaper than high quality kibble. It would be even cheaper if I had more freezer space and could take advantage of bulk discounts - as it is each month I buy around 20 pounds of various minced meats (human grade meat, prepared with 10% ground bone and 10% offal for dogs) at about 80p/$1.25 via a local kennels, several pounds of chicken wings and various meats like heart and offal and a bag or two of frozen mixed veg from the supermarket, and a big bag of frozen tripe chunks from the farmers' supply place just down the road. Total cost for meals and treats for two toy dogs and two cats is around £25/$38 - the sort of kibble I would feel happy about feeding would be at least half as much again, even if it were available in small enough bags to suit Sophy's refusal to eat it once it is the least bit stale!


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

Feeding my two big dogs raw is definitely more expensive than even the best kibble. Together, they eat about twenty pounds of meat, organ, and meaty bones per week, plus fish, eggs, and some veggies. If I weren't getting most of the meat and organ meat free from a local meat processing plant, I'd have to refinance the house. Well worth it, though. They're energetic, they have great coats, Jazz's teeth are strong and white, and Luke's bad teeth and gums (the result of a lifetime of kibble) look better than they have for years. And it's fun to watch them chow down!


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## elaine amj (Jun 9, 2013)

ItzaClip said:


> Nice new supplement that is meant to add to any food(raw/home cooked/kibble) to maximize its nutrient value is Omega alpha's "nutrify" this is a Canadian company. They make human/equine and canine supplements. Very nice line. I'm quite excited about it since it has even the green foods like spirulina in it.
> 
> Omega Alpha Nutrify - Antioxidants by Urban Jungle Pets


I checked it out. I will keep that in mind  There are a LOT of supplements out there!!



JudyD said:


> I'm no expert on raw feeding, by any means, so take this with plenty of salt. Seems to me that a chicken wing, which is about 50% bone, might be too much bone for every day feeding. My dogs get meaty bones four or five times a week, with extra meat. Otherwise, they get constipated. They don't get kibble, though. Maybe that makes a difference?


So far his poop is pretty good. He was straining a little a couple of days ago, but nothing constipated. You're right that it's something to watch closely for in case he gets too much bone.

It's interesting to find that some people find kibble cheaper and some people find raw cheaper. I'm curious to find out. So far - it's not too bad. But then again, I'm still paying for kibble as well.

Today I was home late from work. My husband offered him his food. He eventually nibbled a bit but didn't eat much. I got home a couple of hours later and went outside to sit with him and offered his chicken wing again. He picked it up and spent the next 10 minutes walking up and down my backyard giving little whines. Maybe he wanted to bury it? 

I finally took it from him and put it back in his bowl. This time he started nosing it away - very enthusiastically for about 5 minutes. The little bowl was pushed all over the place. he tipped it over onto the ground and when he tried nosing it away, he got a lick in and finally, he started eating! Chomped down on the rest of the wing happily until it was all gone.

So odd how he always wants to bring the wing inside the house and paces up and down unhappily.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

You might try giving him the wing frozen. I give Swizzle frozen bones occasionally and he has no problem. I do think chicken wings have too much bone to feed without muscle meat but I am also not an expert.


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

Something else you might try is chicken gizzards and hearts. If you cut the gizzards up into small pieces, like kibble, maybe he'll be more comfortable eating it at first. (I use giblets to fill in on the occasional day I run short of whatever other muscle meat I'm feeding.)


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## elaine amj (Jun 9, 2013)

Can't wait to give organ meat!!

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

Any kind of heart (I use beef and pork hearts) and gizzard are anatomical organs, but they're considered muscle meat for raw feeding. The most common parts used as organs are kidney and liver, fed in small amounts. Have you checked the link to raw feeding information at the top of the food forum? There's a lot of good stuff in there. This is fun, isn't it?


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## elaine amj (Jun 9, 2013)

Today's Day 8. He's doing great. He's been getting a 1/8 cup of kibble in the morning (with water added) and is eating that well (before he would turn up his nose and refuse to eat). He gets a chicken wing for dinner. I spread our a vinyl tablecloth and insist he eats on it. He still wanders off sometimes (tried to bring his wing to my son's bed the other day!) but mostly eats on the mat. He's good about not using his paws which is nice. Super fascinating watching him eat!

I've told a few people about feeding him raw. Been careful about who I tell as I know it is controversial. Told my mom yesterday and she was fascinated. She's thinking about giving her teacup Yorkie some raw - especially after I told her chicken feet has glucosamine. She also has a couple of Belgian Shephards (trained as guard dogs) and she was particularly interested in feeding them raw.

Another friend of mine has a dog treat business. She thought it was great as she has heard such good things. She's been tempted but has been worried about the dogs staying clean (several long haired doggies) so feeds Acana. 

Overall, very positive responses which is nice. Not planning to tell some "know it all" friends though LOL! Just don't need to hear it.


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## elaine amj (Jun 9, 2013)

JudyD said:


> Any kind of heart (I use beef and pork hearts) and gizzard are anatomical organs, but they're considered muscle meat for raw feeding. The most common parts used as organs are kidney and liver, fed in small amounts. Have you checked the link to raw feeding information at the top of the food forum? There's a lot of good stuff in there. This is fun, isn't it?


 Thanks for the clarification - I think this time it will stick. I've only read this like 30 times (incl. in the stickies) but still get it mixed up


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## elaine amj (Jun 9, 2013)

So we bought a 2 pound tray of gizzards yesterday (for 0.99 a pound, which sounded reasonable to me!). I've portioned them out into 2-3 oz servings. I'm planning to get some chicken feet and will serve the gizzards with chicken feet for a good mix of muscle meat and bone. Also bought a bag of individually frozen chicken drumsticks - should be easy to defrost and serve.

He was looking hungry, pacing in the kitchen and we made him wait until we were done eating. 

But all he did when offered the gizzard was walk around the house (I had to keep moving him back to his tablecloth). Then hubby was silly enough to give him a chicken drumstick before he ate his gizzard. We sat down, ignored him, pointed him to his food every few mins...all our usual tricks. I started getting irritated and in response, he started licking me (calming signal-type lick). ARRRGGHHHH - not 1 second after you have sniffed the RAW meat! Patience was a bit of a struggle last night LOL.

Eventually (at least 15 mins) he took us up on our suggestion and ate the drumstick, leaving the gizzard. Ate beautifully. Then showed some interest in the gizzard - but of course a leaf blew across the front yard and a neighbor kid walked past, etc etc. After 10 mins, I gave up and packed the gizzard away. Today, he will ONLY be offered the gizzard. 

I think he likes to eat in private - usually only eats when we are not "looking". But, I can't let him eat raw meat in private yet - he needs to learn to stay on the tablecloth. So we all look occupied with other things so he does not feel we are watching him.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I just read all the posts here. I am glad you are not feeding both kibble and raw at the same meal now. They digest at different rates. 

I'll just throw in some ideas of what I do. I trained him to only eat his meat on a folded up towel. Each time he moved it I just put it back on the towel. He learned really quickly. I have several old towels for this, so I can just wash them regularly. 

After he eats his meat I always have a washcloth ready and wipe his mouth. He wasn't very fond of that until I added a tiny treat (dried meat) that he only got after his face wash.

The raw meat is far better for him than kibble. My dog almost died on kibble - and I tried all the most highly rated and recommended by my vet. Adding some liver every week will be most beneficial. For some reason my dog will not eat chicken liver, but will eat veal/beef liver. I have no clue why. I had to start out just barely cooking it and then transitioned to totally raw. I cut it up in a bowl since it is so messy.

So glad you are going to raw. I too use Honest Kitchen for both when I have forgotten to defrost his meat, or when traveling.


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

He might like the gizzards better if you cut them into small pieces. Even for my big dogs, I cut through the tough membrane that connects the two muscular pieces of each gizzard. I'm afraid they might try to swallow a large gizzard whole and get choked. (Not likely, but what will I do with my time if I don't worry about something?)


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## elaine amj (Jun 9, 2013)

It's been a while since my last post - we are continuing to feed raw and overall it is going pretty well.

Since we bought a big pack of gizzards, he got gizzards for about 3 meals in a row. He's been eating them - with some coaxing. My daughter is the only one who can get him to eat so if he hasn't eaten in 15-20 mins with me, I pull out the big guns (i.e. my DD holds his bowl out to him. For some reason, he'll take i from her, but not if I do the same thing). He;'s actually doing REALLY good now with gizzards. Chomps down on them pretty quickly. 

And you know how I complained a little bit ago that when we gave him a drumstick AND gizzards, he ate the drumsticks but refused the gizzards? Well, the last 2 days, we've added drumsticks to his meals and he eats the gizzards and refuses the drumsticks! 

Most dogs adore raw food - mine, not so much. He LOVES ground meat. When we need a quick meal, we give him raw ground meat and he inhales it. He also got some leftover cooked ground meat recently and loved it too. He even eats his kibble (with water added) fast now. He used to go on hunger strikes with kibble. Now he just walks away once and then goes right back to eat it. 

With the raw, he'lll walk away 5-6 times. Lay down and look at it. Nose it away a few times. Then eventually he'll think about eating. And he's usually hungry by this time. He gets a very small kibble breakfast (1/8 of a cup). At dinner, he walks around the kitchen and looks appealingly at us, licks my legs, etc etc. Oh well, just my luck I guess. 

I have been using kibble as treats (mixed up with tiny bits of hot dog or bacon - he LOVES them like that. Dry by itself, not so much). As a side note,. I picked up some freeze dried liver cat treats from a discount store a few days ago($1 a pack!!). We offered him one and he completely turned his nose up at it and refused to eat it. Hubs is NOT happy - I convinced him to buy a few packs saying dogs adore liver and that it was good for him.


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