# dog developed new unsocial? behavior



## jcwinks (Jun 26, 2010)

Our 7 month old standard has taken to avoiding our garage - at least that's what I think she's doing. Her crate is in there and the grooming table is in there. We put her in her crate when we leave or sometimes when we're having dinner or when she's too rambunctious - not too often really because I'm a stay at home Mom - in other words, she's not usually in the crate all day - sometimes maybe for 2 or 3 hours.

When she goes out, she runs through the garage around to the side of the house where we usually toss the frisbee for her - she stands there waiting or something but won't come when called- I have to go get her. Sometimes, she'll go out and sit by the car,(she likes to ride in the car with us), it seems just in case we're going to go somewhere and she won't come away from the car, I have to go get her. When our family is outside, kids playing together and Mom and Dad putzing, she won't hang around with us. She stays briefly with us then runs to the side of our house and stands there in the area where we toss our frisbee.

When she's inside, she won't come outside with us if it means going through the garage. I sometimes have to drag her outside - then once outside doesn't want to come inside and I sometimes have to go get her. She doesn't run away though - I can tell her to sit and stay then I can get her.

At night when it's time for bed, we take her upstairs and leash her to the bed. She used to be in her crate at night but we've transitioned to leashing her in our room. There have been no accidents at night this way and she wakes us up about 5 AM to go out. Well, sometimes she won't come upstairs with us at night when we call - we have to go down to get her.

I'm not sure whether she's just being stubborn or what? Do you think I just need to work on the come when called command? I guess I don't like to see this kind of neurotic behavior outside i.e. not joining in or being with the family either because she's afraid of the garage or wants us to play frisbee. Is there a way to teach her to stay with us or something?

Thanks in advance for help/suggestions


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## Desiree (Feb 14, 2010)

Good Luck.


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## partial2poodles (Feb 11, 2010)

Poodles are so smart. You have to work with her daily...get traing treats and start positive reinforcement


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## jcwinks (Jun 26, 2010)

I think I might have narrowed it down to the opening and closing of the garage dooor. I was playing frisbee with her in the garage and tried pressing the door button - she cowered in a corner and wouldn't touch her frisbee - which she is obsessed with. Wouldn't look at it or chase it. Anyway, is there a way to get her used to the garage door?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Why is she anxious about the garage door? Do you close it when you are leaving her alone? Has it ever nearly closed on her? I am not quite sure how it relates to leashing her at bedtime?

As a very general point, I would be looking for ways to associate the scary trigger (closing of the garage door, leashing for bedtime, etc, etc) with Good Stuff for Poodles - treats, games, whatever she loves best. The best way of doing this is by using tiny steps - bit difficult if the trigger is open door versus closed door. Is there any way you can close the door gradually, to help her learn happy associations?


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

JCWINKS:

If you had kept me also in a garage I too will avoid going into your garage or trying desperately to get as far away from the garage as possible, and also not go through it to go outdoors. 

It is obivous your girl avoids the garage like poison because she does not like to be kept in there no matter if it is for 5 min. or 3 hrs.

May I ask you since she is a family pet and I assume you purchased her as such, why would you put her crate in the garage which is not part of your house or family room but merely a room you close the door to and never go there but in this case you do since you say that your dog stays there for approx. 3 hours ?

Your girl is not exhibiting neurotic behavior at all, actually she is exhibiting very intelligent behavior as she knows that if she goes into your garage she MAY be put again into her crate and stay there.

I also dont believe that it is necessary to leash her to the bed during the night. There are other ways to control her not to wonder around.. Just get a cage upstairs and put it near your side of the bed or any place in the bedroom.

Leashing a dog to a bed is not something I suggest to my clients. I usually suggest a cage where she can sleep comfortably not being leashed.

Also I wonder why are you leashing her during the night. I rarely hear of a puppy at 7 months old not being able to hold herself until the morning that is if you let her out at night latest at 10-11 p.m. she should be able to hold it comfortably until 7 or even 8 a.m.

I am surprised you still have to wake up at 5 a.m. to let her out.

Have you tried letting her out latest at 10:30 p.m. and leaving her in her crate until 7:00 a.m. then taking her out. I am willing to bet she will not pee and will be able to hold herself and you can get the extra 2 hours sleep.

MHO


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## jcwinks (Jun 26, 2010)

She's never been caught in the garage door - I think it's just the noise of it. When we're outside in nice weather the door is open - she doesn't want to go near it for fear it will close? I don't know - I would say she just seems to want to avoid the garage area - inside it and outside it - because she associates it with ""THE NOISE."


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

jcwinks said:


> She's never been caught in the garage door - I think it's just the noise of it. When we're outside in nice weather the door is open - she doesn't want to go near it for fear it will close? I don't know - I would say she just seems to want to avoid the garage area - inside it and outside it - *because she associates it with ""THE NOISE."*




This may be, but I am not absolutely convinced.

I still think that the fact she is at times kept in a crate in a garage does make her avoid it maybe coupled with the noise of the garage door opening and closing still spending little or long periods in the garage is not something a dog likes or enjoys. Poodles love to be with their owners, they like human companionship. 

Is there no way that you can find a spot IN your house where you can put her crate and cage her there when you are not with her or need to run your errands? Why the garage ??

I never will accept any of my clients putting their dogs in a garage, especially a poodle. Buth hey, that is just me....


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## jcwinks (Jun 26, 2010)

whitepoodles said:


> JCWINKS:
> 
> If you had kept me also in a garage I too will avoid going into your garage or trying desperately to get as far away from the garage as possible, and also not go through it to go outdoors.
> 
> ...


Wow - I was hoping for some help but was not expecting to have to defend myself!! 

Yes - our dog is a family pet but when we leave we keep all of our animals in our garage. It is tiled, heated, cooled, a part of our house which we spend a lot of time in in nice weather, i.e, sitting there watching kids play outside, kids play in there riding bikes, etc. If they throw up it's easy to clean. If it's good enough for us, it's good enough for her too I think. Would she avoid the house or living room if I crated her inside? And she actually seemed to enjoy her time in the crate and away from our noisy bunch - she would lay right down and go to sleep.

She is always with us except when we leave and can't take her or occasionally when she needed a time out. We did crate her more often when she was still having accidents so she's getting better at that and has been spending a lot more time out.

As far as leashing her at night, I thought it was nicer for her to be with us and have more freedom to move around - dumb me I guess! I don't know why she wakes me up at 5 by licking my feet - maybe she loves me even though I'm a horrible owner and wants to sit with me while I drink coffee!!

Our other dog and 2 cats were not afraid of the door, so I didn't anticipate the problem.

Perhaps you took offense on behalf of my dog for the word neurotic - please forgive me I was just upset and worried and frustrated and wondering how to help her enjoy her family more - and us enjoy her!

By the way - you really hurt my feelings - I'm really shocked at your response.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

jcwinks said:


> Wow - I was hoping for some help but was not expecting to have to defend myself!!
> 
> Yes - our dog is a family pet but when we leave we keep all of our animals in our garage. It is tiled, heated, cooled, a part of our house which we spend a lot of time in in nice weather, i.e, sitting there watching kids play outside, kids play in there riding bikes, etc. If they throw up it's easy to clean. If it's good enough for us, it's good enough for her too I think. Would she avoid the house or living room if I crated her inside? And she actually seemed to enjoy her time in the crate and away from our noisy bunch - she would lay right down and go to sleep.
> 
> ...


JCWINKS:

I am VERY VERY sorry if I hurt your feelings that is not at all what my intention was.

You have to realize that when you said IN MY GARAGE you failed to specify that your garage was turned into sort of a family room where you and your kids and family spend time together.

Forgive me if I hurt you but HAD YOU specified that your garage is NOT a garage per se and more like a part of your home, I would of NEVER posted such a reply.

My response strictly emmanated from the fact that the word GARAGE was used and CRATE IN THE GARAGE. This naturally irked and upset me to know that a dog will be purchased as a family pet and have to spend even one hour in a crate in a closed garage. 

To me a garage means where you keep things you do not wish to keep in your house including cars, bikes, tires, you name it but not dogs.


Had you specified that your garage is anything BUT a garage my response would of been TOTALLY different.

*And... for this I sincerely apologise. Please accept my apology*


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## jcwinks (Jun 26, 2010)

whitepoodles said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> JCWINKS:
> 
> ...


I do accept your apology and thank you for caring enough to respond so quickly! I was really upset and am crying now - maybe it's just that time of the month. But I appreciate it very much.

Anyway, I am very upset about my dog. I don't know if the problem would have developed anyway out of fear of the noise.

Crating questions aside (I have moved the crate anyway inside the house to try to identify the problem. The dog goes happily into her crate - but I have to drag her outside or inside if it means going through the garage.)
I guess my question is, how do I get the dog used to the noise of the garage door? Is there a way to desensitize her to it?


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

jcwinks said:


> I do accept your apology and thank you for caring enough to respond so quickly! I was really upset and am crying now - maybe it's just that time of the month. But I appreciate it very much.
> 
> * I am glad you did JCWINKS because the last thing I would want to do is offend anyone here. So thanks for accepting my apology.*
> 
> ...


There are ways to desensitize her and get her used to the garage door noise that is IF IT IS THE GARAGE DOOR NOISE that scares her.

I know it may seem ludicrous but what I would do is leash her and stand with her OUTSIDE in front of the garage door while your husband is on the other side INSIDE the garage.

Take with you a squeeky toy, anything she loves and will focus on.. 

Do NOT take any treats because you do not want to show her that if she is scared she will be getting a treat that will only re inforce her feelings of insecurity with what ever she fears related to the garage and the noise .

Stand in front of the garage door OUTSIDE and ask your husband to open the garage door while he is inside. Judge her reaction to the noise and the movement of hte garage.. Stay with her LEASHED to you in close proximity to the door and the moment you see her jerk or show apprehension and fear start acting SILLY and very funny with her and do NOT comfort her but start to play with her and tease her with the toy in order to divert her attention from what scares her to you

If she sees that YOU are playing with her and acting funny and trying to coax her into your game she will eventually forget the garage door and start participating in your games and start hopefully to wag her tail.

I do this with any and all puppies that seem apprehensive about noises or certain objects .. I introduce them to the object or the noise repetitively and at the same time divert their attention from the IMAGINED fear they have by playing with them and singing and acting silly and egging them to play with me in the hope that they will turn their attention from what is fearful for them to concnetrating on STUPID ME MAKING A FOOL OF MYSELF 

Try this a couple of times and let us know how it works and under NO condition comfort her in a baby oh baby voice because this type of voice will only re inforce her belief that there is indeed danger and a reason for her to fear.


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## jcwinks (Jun 26, 2010)

I will try thiis and I'll let you know...


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

jcwinks said:


> I will try thiis and I'll let you know...


JCWINKS:
It worked for me, on several occasions and also with puppies I sold to clients who were apprehesive about certain objects until they got used to them and realized there is nothing to worry about.

AGAIN SO SO VERY SORRY and I hope you are not crying anymore.. I would hate to think I did this to someone.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would do as WP suggests, but start a bit further away from the garage, and gradually move closer. That way you make it easier for her to ignore it in the early stages, and don't risk reinforcing the fear by not letting her escape it.

Research has shown that dogs are often much more stressed when they revisit a place where something frightened them months after the event than they were at the time of the event. If you can think back and identify what may have triggered this behaviour, it may help in getting over it.


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## jcwinks (Jun 26, 2010)

whitepoodles said:


> JCWINKS:
> It worked for me, on several occasions and also with puppies I sold to clients who were apprehesive about certain objects until they got used to them and realized there is nothing to worry about.
> 
> AGAIN SO SO VERY SORRY and I hope you are not crying anymore.. I would hate to think I did this to someone.


LOL - No I'm not crying anymore!! Thank you for your concern but truly I sincerely accept your apology and am grateful for the advice. I'm waiting for my Mom to get here so we can start working with her.

My husband wonders if she may just grow out of it as she has other fears, that this might be a part of puppyhood? She was afraid of her reflection at one point and I thought she would always be but that went away gradually. When I first started walking her she was afraid of cars driving by and lawnmowers but she has gradually grown out of that, too. Those fears we just kind of ignored and calmly kept walking as if there was nothing wrong.


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## jcwinks (Jun 26, 2010)

fjm said:


> I would do as WP suggests, but start a bit further away from the garage, and gradually move closer. That way you make it easier for her to ignore it in the early stages, and don't risk reinforcing the fear by not letting her escape it.
> 
> Research has shown that dogs are often much more stressed when they revisit a place where something frightened them months after the event than they were at the time of the event. If you can think back and identify what may have triggered this behaviour, it may help in getting over it.


Really, the only thing I can think of is I remember when she was a younger pup I was playing with her in the garage when someone opened the door. She kind of panicked at the sound and ran under a table. But since then I have not observed anything unusual until about a week ago.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

jcwinks said:


> LOL - No I'm not crying anymore!! Thank you for your concern but truly I sincerely accept your apology and am grateful for the advice. I'm waiting for my Mom to get here so we can start working with her.
> 
> My husband wonders if she may just grow out of it as she has other fears, that this might be a part of puppyhood? She was afraid of her reflection at one point and I thought she would always be but that went away gradually. When I first started walking her she was afraid of cars driving by and lawnmowers but she has gradually grown out of that, too. *Those fears we just kind of ignored and calmly kept walking as if there was nothing wrong.*





Jcwins:

Precisely my point.. There you go, this is exactely what I would do with her current fears of the garage opening or closing or anything that scares her imagined or not concerning the garage door and its proximity.

FJM is right, with what she says in her post.. go further away from garage door and gradually decrease your distance from it.. 

The key is to not only ignore her imagined apprehension and fear but also to divert her attention immediately with a FUN FUN thing, voice, toy, action as soon as you see the fear/apprehension start to build in her.

In no time would you have this behavior nipped in the butt .

Also when I have a puppy or sold a puppy that is noise sensitive, I open the radio SO LOUD my husband freaks but Itell him it is necessary and I sing at the top of my lungs (you wont want to be here when I do so) and I try my best to divert the attention of the puppy on to me BUT I DO NOT leave the place where the pups exhibits their fear. I stay put there and it is there that I conduct myself in a most stupid foolish manner to egg the puppy on and coax them to play with me to keep their attention focused on stupid me rather than the noise of object of (imagined) fear.

Also the comment of "tracking back" and trying to see what happened in the past which could of brought these garage door fears about would be a good starting point.

One question, has your breeder done puppy temperament testing on the pups and if so, did she give you a sheet with results and reasons for why she has chosen the pup for you ? Did you tell your breeder what type of puppy you feel would suit best in your home ?

How was your puppy socialized at the breeder? At times puppies are raised away from the hustle and bustle of a home without too much noise and this at times can be the reason why they are noise sensitive.

She is still very young and pliable and I have no doubt you can turn her around and make her see the garage door and its noise as just another thing in life she will comfortably have to deal with.

Good luck keep us posted.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

It may just be that poodles are a sensitive breed, but I find myself jollying Vasco out of (to me) unreasonable new fears fairly often. He was frightened of skateboards for a while (although our next-door park has a big skate ramp), he was frightened of my neighbor for a while, and now he has decided he is frightened of the wicker trash basket in my office. Go figure. None of these were huge neurotic fears, more aversion.

As suggested, I find the best way around this is associating good things (slowly) with the scary thing. Poodles are bright, and they figure stuff out.

My obedience trainer told me that dogs go through a second fear phase in late adolescence, so this may be a normal stage for your dog.

I do like fjm's characterisation: Good Things For Poodles. I can just see Vasco dividing everything in his cushy little life into GTFP and non-GTFP .


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## Beach girl (Aug 5, 2010)

Agree with the above re desensitizing.

Also, many dogs do go through a secondary fear period around 5 - 7 months. This coincides with puberty. In the wild, pups at that age would be leaving their parents, exploring around, and a healthy fear reaction to unfamiliar things would keep them safe. It's possible your dog is passing through this fear period. Some extra work in desensitizing her to the sound of the door might help, combined with just growing older and more confident.

Also agree it's not a good idea to leash her at night. She could get tangled in her leash and you would never know. It's fine for her to sleep in a crate all night. Some dogs sleep in their crate their entire lives; some up until a year or so old.


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## jcwinks (Jun 26, 2010)

Thank you - very helpful - and makes me feel better, too  what a plus!!!

new mantra....

GTFP GTFP GTFP GTFP !!!!!


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

jcwinks said:


> Thank you - very helpful - and makes me feel better, too  what a plus!!!
> 
> new mantra....
> 
> GTFP GTFP GTFP GTFP !!!!!


JCWINKS:

I am very happy to see you smile. I am also glad you are not so stressed as you were before you brought your concerns to this board.

There is much to learn from everyone here as each of us has their own experiences and can bring forth their ideas and opinions for you to choose from and work with.

I would not show concern to your girl when she is with you no matter what seems to you she is scared of, just ignore, the key is to ignore and immediately at the same time divert her attention to a positive thing that she likes, play session, ball, nice toy, etc... anything that represents pleasure for her during the time she exhibits her fears.

As every one here said, puppies do tend to go through secondary fear period and it just comes to mind that indeed that happened to my boy Onyx, at 7 months old , he suddenly decided that he is afraid of the garbage cans which are put out by my husband every Monday to be collected by the city trash truck.. He got over his fear because I walked him by the cans every time the trash was out and even on days when we did not have garbage pick up, I used to put the two garbage cans outside so that he would get used to passing by them..

Eventually he just didnt notice them anymore..


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## jcwinks (Jun 26, 2010)

This is all very encouraging - I spent some time with her today playing in the garage near the remote door opener. At first she did not respond - she just kept looking at it and sitting there. I walked here around and then played frisbee with her until she forgot and her tail was up and looking happy. Then we went inside and ended on a good note.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

[*QUOTE=jcwinks;120790]This is all very encouraging - I spent some time with her today playing in the garage near the remote door opener. At first she did not respond - she just kept looking at it and sitting there. I walked here around and then played frisbee with her until she forgot and her tail was up and looking happy. Then we went inside and ended on a good note.[/QUOTE]*


WONDERFUL !!! and this is your first attempt.

Imagine what will ensue the more you do what you did today.

You are on a roll and so is your girl....

good luck.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Great progress!

I think I need a GTFP t-shirt.


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## jcwinks (Jun 26, 2010)

Today I took her out in the garage and started playing with her with the frisbee without the leash. At first she ran to the side of the house with it but I just waited in the garage and eventually she came to me and we played her favorite frisbee games. She also ran inside a couple of times and wouldn't bring the frisbee to me - she wanted me to come in where it was "safe" but I waited and by the end of the game she was retrieving the frisbee to me every time. Sometimes I stood by the remote door opener and waved my hand near there and this illicited no negative response from her. I think I might play frisbee with her only in there until she's all better - I'm thinking I'll open the garage door to signal "now we get the frisbee!" and maybe the garage door will signal GTFP!!! Haha

Anyway, I see light at the end of the tunnel and that my dog is not neurotic, just needed some sleuthing. Thanks to all for your help!! I'll know how to approach the problem if she gets scared again!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

jcwinks said:


> Anyway, I see light at the end of the tunnel and that my dog is not neurotic, just needed some sleuthing.


I think that is such a good way of looking at it - so often we blame our dogs for being stubborn, or disobedient, or even "dominant", when they are desperately trying to tell us something about how they feel.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

jcwinks:

Am so happy to hear this. I was sure that you will succeed with the right aproach and some patience.'

This is wonderful and yes, I do suggest you continue playing frisbee or any other game with her in the area which most ellicits a negative/fearful reaction from her until you see that she completely ignores her previous objects of fear and passes by them as if they dont exist.

You are certainly on a roll.. GREAT STUFF !


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