# Coat Change Tips and Style Pics?



## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Luckys haircut was kinda like this. He turns a year this month on 26th. His hair has been getting seriously matted so it is really short. It is soooo much easier to clean now when he rolls in mud. I do miss his shaggy coat bc he was fun to hug with a bit of shag

















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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

Thank you for the picture! I hope it is helpful to some people to get a look at that one, it's a bit like a modified bikini/miami clip. I like the bikini a lot and might do it one day when Puffy has retired. 

However, since I have to grow it out for show in Puffy's particular case, I can't really cut the whole body short. We have to grow out the neck and upper body, tail, topknot etc. so that he can go into a continental or scandinavian within the year. Know what I mean? Key parts need to grow, while a few spots can actually GO.

I want to cut short what I can, without straying too far from the mission of growing out his hair where it counts.

Thanks for your input!


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## pudellvr (Dec 1, 2016)

What about a lion clip?


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## pudellvr (Dec 1, 2016)

Kalstone pg 199


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

I like that clip a lot! The lion is what we call a Scandinavian over here. I think that when Puffy is older I would like him to have something like this for show, because in the FCI it is allowed. In many ways, scandinavian/lion is a more mature version of what we call European puppy clip. I think it's very elegant looking once the dog has long hair in the right places, but not quite as eccentric as the continental; a bit more street friendly!

One thing about that cut is that the leg hair is very long, and that leg hair is just dastardly on Puffy right now! I think I would like to get rid of some of it some how. So I have been flirting with the notion of some sort of modified continental, but I have only found a handful of pictures. Sometimes I find it looks really bizarre  But maybe there is some sort of stylish version that I would like. I don't know! Just waiting for some inspiration. 

Fortunately, I do have a great groomer who is also my mentor and a poodle specialist, so when the time comes I am sure that she will be able to get the best look out of my request. But what shall the request be?! I only wonder...


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## pudellvr (Dec 1, 2016)

PuffDaddy said:


> I like that clip a lot! The lion is what we call a Scandinavian over here. I think that when Puffy is older I would like him to have something like this for show, because in the FCI it is allowed. In many ways, scandinavian/lion is a more mature version of what we call European puppy clip. I think it's very elegant looking once the dog has long hair in the right places, but not quite as eccentric as the continental; a bit more street friendly!
> 
> One thing about that cut is that the leg hair is very long, and that leg hair is just dastardly on Puffy right now! I think I would like to get rid of some of it some how. So I have been flirting with the notion of some sort of modified continental, but I have only found a handful of pictures. Sometimes I find it looks really bizarre  But maybe there is some sort of stylish version that I would like. I don't know! Just waiting for some inspiration.
> 
> Fortunately, I do have a great groomer who is also my mentor and a poodle specialist, so when the time comes I am sure that she will be able to get the best look out of my request. But what shall the request be?! I only wonder...


Yes, that is why I asked about it. Kalstone also shows and English Saddle version with shaved back end and upper legs w bracelets. It may be a bit too cool in Finland to have totally shaved but you could leave the back end velvety for warmth and still have the same effect. It's neat you have someone to turn too. Our groomers around here do a poor job on poodles. I don't think any truly love the breed. That makes a difference. Since I am not doing conformation on Percy I am doing a modified bikini on him. Hubby doesn't think he will like bracelets on a male dog. Our female always had the bikini cut. She looked fab.


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

I believe that every male poodle is entitled to metro-sexual fashion sense. He will look great with bracelets, I bet! I love that picture of him. He reminds me a lot of Puffy (who loves to rock neon, pink, purple and big hair with pride!)


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

*I found the clip!*

I found this picture on the internet after a lot of searching.I love it!! 

It is exactly what I had imagined in my head for Puffy while his coat changes, keeping in mind the fact that he does need to grow key parts of his hair out for the future shows. It's basically a short historically correct continental with no butt pom poms (I am missing this piece of vocabulary. Are you SURE this isn't the correct term?  Also, the fur is not shaved to the skin on the legs and butt, just clipped very short. Let's call it snappy casual!

I like it because it will allow me to cut some of the hair super short, while letting the parts that need to grow just grow. Also, I really like the particulars of this version. It's elegant! Very fashionable with a hint of street smart! The ever metro-sexual style loving Puff Daddy will be looking pretty fine like this I imagine, and we will both feel better with less long hair to drag that comb through in the months to come. 

I am going to hold out a bit longer before taking him to the groomer for this look, but when I do I will post pics. Obviously it is still a long style with more than enough upkeep, but that is just how it has to be if he is going to go to shows eventually, and I am happy with this mix of long and short.

Hail spring fashion!


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

I have my dog in a bikini cut and please be warned the nether region isn't covered up and you can see everything. We went to an art festival yesterday and people kept starring at him because he was a little overstimulated. One lady said that was a very excited dog even though he was just walking around at a super slow pace. Also short coat means more sensitive skin if you have another dog who plays rough with him, he could get scratched. 


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I only came on to say you have my complete empathy. Naomi is in the throes of coat change in a full blown, North American show puppy trim. Went from a ten minute brush out to an hour of line brushing, misting, breaking mats up with fingers behind ears and in armpits. *GAWD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!* So, I feel your pain! Know you are not alone. *LORD HELP ME!*


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

Arreau, I truly appreciate the empathy! I knew that once the coat changed it would be more challenging than before and it would be prone to knotting, but this is just so intense that I have to come up with some sort of modification for my own sanity and for the comfort of the dog. I feel like the moment I free up knots and mats and get it to a point where I can pull a comb through (phew!!), 3 seconds later the comb can't go through anymore! I think I have all the knots out one day, and the next day you would think I haven't brushed him for weeks because he is so matted and knotted again. But I promised his breeder we would go to shows, and so I am determined to hold up my end of the bargain. My deal with Puffy is that he gets a bully stick during his grooming session, and only then. SO he just chews away merrily most of the time and doesn't seem too bothered. But the sessions are getting so long that he can mow down an entire bully stick in once session these days! Not sure if I can afford this treat at this rate! Yet we continue to fight the good fight.

I am considering it a lesson in character building


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

If you do a Conti or modified Conti, be very careful to take the jacket back far enough. That is a common error, and placement of the jacket and rosettes is something of an art where a skilled groomer adjusts the trim to flatter the dog. I guess you don't need rosettes if you are eventually going to do a Scandi. 

As for coat change, I feel your pain. I joke that the most important products for coat change are elbow grease and wine. Experiment with what products work the best. Your issues might be different from mine--e.g., static versus humidity, each its own special kind of hell. One general breakdown of products is silicone vs oil. I am in the silicone camp, e.g., Cowboy Magic and CC Ice on Ice. 

Do you have a stand dryer? IMO the very best way to avoid matting is to brush/blow out the coat every day or every other day under the dryer. The dryer acts as a third hand and lets you spot webbing and little (or big) mats. It also changes the coat texture and makes it easier to lightly brush out the coat.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Verve I have a force dryer does having a stand attachment help? I was thinking about getting one in the future because I always need someone to help blow dry him 


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

Thanks Verve, you make some interesting points I didn't know much about. I do all of Puffy's maintenance and even scissor him myself weekly just to maintain some basic shape and to practice. However, I have a very skilled groomer (my mentor) who is a poodle specialist and also breeder for over 20 years. That said, she has a great eye for poodle style, so i will trust her to do this cut as she is responsible for all of his "real haircuts" every few months. I am sure if I did it he would look like a moron. My skills are...amateur at best. 

I don't have a stand dryer right now and yes, my mentor is encouraging me to invest in one soon. I can't afford it at the moment because first I need to get a nicer clipper for Puff and then fix the electrical system in my car...You know how life goes! But I am certainly looking forward to investing 400 bucks in a dog hair dryer. Wink wink! (Everything is expensive here.)

But my partner does often help me a bit with Puff's grooming sessions, so I could ask him to hold the dryer that we do have for now. Question: You do this on dry fur, is that right? I actually have not heard of using the dryer for de-matting and appreciate the information. 

Right now I am using a product called 'Knot Sure' by Animology. It costs $17 a bottle in Finland, and I am personally 'not sure' if it really helps much! Maybe I should special order this CC on Ice that you mention and everyone seems to rave about it.

This is what I have:
https://www.viovet.co.uk/Animology_...d1ikCaOk-taP1AFESQzbDvFAEPRw9U_2VMaAjn08P8HAQ

Until then, we are very familiar with the elbow grease and wine trick ;-)


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

Can someone please enlighten me, once the coat change is in full swing, how long does it usually last? Are we looking at another year or more of this really difficult constantly tangled grooming battle, or does it only last a few months?

I hear that once it is over things get a whole lot easier. I cling to this notion.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Someone tole me it stops at 18 months 


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

PuffDaddy said:


> But my partner does often help me a bit with Puff's grooming sessions, so I could ask him to hold the dryer that we do have for now. Question: You do this on dry fur, is that right? I actually have not heard of using the dryer for de-matting and appreciate the information.


Yes, you blow through a dry coat, with just a bit of brushing spray (diluted conditioner or official brushing spray). Whether a force dryer will work depends partly on how intense it is, and you will also get varying opinions on that. If you aren't careful, a force dryer can make the hair curl back on itself and cause more problems, but I know people who do dry almost an entire show coat with one. 

The other key is that clean hair is your friend, and for me, that weekly bath is the reset button where it's useful to take as much time as necessary to wind up with a clean, straight, bone-dry coat. If you cut corners on any of those things, it will come back to bite you. 

One famous handler talks about matted hair having memory, and that it will remat almost immediately. He says the best solution to that is to bathe, even if you just bathed the day before. That's easier advice to dispense and take when you have an assistant to do the bathing! :argh:


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

Thanks for the info Verve. I do wash the dog about once a week which is already a lot of work for me. As someone who will certainly never strive to the heights of becoming "a well known handler" I, too, unfortunately do not have an assistant to spend 3 hours washing and blow drying my dog every day! 
Though I know you are right that that washing helps a lot. Once a week already feels like a lot to a mere mortal such as myself  I do usually end up washing the legs once or twice between weekly baths just because they are more prone to getting dirty.

I have surely experienced the hair memory you speak of. I suppose it is a lot like when you braid your hair, it will hold it's curl until you wash it. I have also noticed that the process of de-matting and matting can simply damage the hair enough so that it will always be more prone to mat up in places where it has matted badly before, even with washing.

After Puffy stayed with his grandma for a couple weeks when he was 8 months (before the coat change had set in) She just didn't brush him well and so his coat was in huge giant impossible mats when he came back to us. We were able to get some of these out, but the hair has been so damaged by the matting process that it would always go back into mats just in those particular spots where it was the worst, even though the rest of the coat was in pretty good shape and still in puppy mode. Someone at the forum had warned us about this as well. Permanently damaged memory!

We had to give up and cut the hair on the body and neck short at 9 months for this reason. Also, some of the mats proved to be so impossible that he started to develop a skin infection after a few days de-matting. That was a dark time, which I would not like to revisit!

A month or two later the coat has really changed drastically to become so thick and tightly curled, that even the short hair which is only 2-3 inches is difficult to maintain.

I absolutely can't imagine what would happen if we had to go on vacation at this point, because I can barely stay on top of it myself, and I am dedicated and know how to do it (ha, for the most part!) Fortunately we don't have any travel plans coming up in the near future!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

This is what I had to contend with the whole time he was showing. He was going through coat change while he was showing. I couldn't have put him in any other style. I was so glad when he retired and I could chop off all his hair. lol. I think I posted a thread about that, showing all the hair that fell on the table. :ahhhhh:

This is a very special lady I was privileged to meet and have groom (finishing) my dog. She took an interest in him at this one show and went all over him, perfecting what had been done. She was incredibly meticulous. 




I think that picture you posted would help for sure...At least _some _of it would be shorter. It definitely is time consuming to go through the hair every day... at least once...every square inch right down to the skin. You'll still need to do all that but at least, you'll have a few areas that aren't so long.


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## LizzysMom (Sep 27, 2016)

PuffDaddy, I'm saving the picture you posted to show to my groomer the next time I take Lizzy in. I think it's exactly the look I'd like her to have, too. Thanks for posting it! I can't wait to see your beautiful boy in it - don't forget to post pictures when you have it done!


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

Lizzy, I would love to see a picture of how it works out for you as well. One thing I would mention, is that I have seen some pretty awkward looking modified continentals in my day which don't really seem to flatter the dog. Sometimes they just look plain weird. Maybe it's just me, I am a big fan of fashion and style so I tend to be picky and have my own strong views about such things! Naturally, to each his own. But still!

Definitely go to a groomer who specializes in poodles and who really loves the breed (if you can find one!) I think it will make a considerable difference in the outcome. 

If we can get this cut done well, I think it is going to be a very elegant look for spring! 

And yes, just a bit less work. Poodlebeguiled, I know I will still spend many hours untangling that mane! Growing out show hair is just a lot of work, I suppose this will just make it all a little (not a lot!) easier.


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

*I did it! Moment of insanity leads to giving modified continental all by myself!*

Hey everyone who chimed in on this thread! I just wanted to update that I totally lost my mind and temper with that coat a few days later, and the groomer was booked out for a month. SO I went against my own advice and just did it myself! It was kind of like a moment of insanity where I was trying to detangle those darn leg hairs AGAIN and it just felt impossible. It was as if the force was suddenly with me, and I had the confidence to buzz the dog into a modified continental. I felt a bit like a mad scientist.

I did some research about setting the lines properly and I just went for it. Next month Puffy has an appointment with our awesome groomer so it can grow for another 6 weeks or so until then. She can whip the whole thing into shape a bit and give me pointers for the future. 

It was the first major hair-do I have ever done on a poodle, which is why it was a big deal for me. Up until this point I just trimmed a bit here and there to maintain his puppy cut, but this new style was kind of like diving into the deep end. Fortunately, his hair won't be long enough to show until 2018, so as long as it continues to grow where it matters then this is a good time to start experimenting and learning the ropes. It is ok if this cut is not perfect, but I am surprisingly happy with how it turned out. I don't think it's the worst amateur job the world has ever seen 

Yes, it is MUCH easier to groom and I save a lot of time each day. Is it still awful and incredibly time consuming since the coat change is so intense? Of course  But way better for both of us. 

Thanks for everyone for the advice here because your words and tips have remained with me and been helpful in many ways.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

The first time I put Jazz into a HCC it was the middle of a Wyoming winter. We used a #5 blade on the "naked" parts and yes I don't do pom poms so the butt was all smooth. As you said it looks nice, lets the right parts grow and gets rid of some of the most easily matted bits. I have used a similar clip on most of my poodles since. Monster however is a pet and went totally Retro. We removed the neck hair his collar had matted, then bare rump to remove the mats there. Short jacket, bracelets and tail puff. It was a great solution to his matts. OF course on Twilight since she was going into cords we just used the matting to kick start her cords ;-) Cole is still young enough to not have the dreaded coat change going on and I am not at all sure how I will handle it for him....

sorry no photos as I am posting from work.. PF is great to read during down time.


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