# Is Taste of the Wild giving Fallen the Runs



## Liafast (Apr 9, 2011)

I had the same issues with my newfoundlands. I did the food switch over 10 days and kept them on the food for several months hoping their systems would adjust. It didn't and I switched the over to Iams with great poop after they got off TOTW. I think the food is to rich for some dogs and I will never feed it again.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

Liafast said:


> I had the same issues with my newfoundlands. I did the food switch over 10 days and kept them on the food for several months hoping their systems would adjust. It didn't and I switched the over to Iams with great poop after they got off TOTW. I think the food is to rich for some dogs and I will never feed it again.


Thanks I'm going to the store tomorrow and buy a bag of Blue Buffallo and add it to the Diamond large puppy and take the TOTW back to the store. I thought it was a pretty good dog food and he actually loved it, but its not worth all the cleaning and bathing LOL


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## Liafast (Apr 9, 2011)

Good luch on the food hunt.


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## vtomblin (Jul 18, 2010)

I would suggest a vet trip anyway to check for giardia. Happens lots in pups. Seems it's been going on a while. Research it and see what you think. I feed raw and blue buffalo. I am happy with the chow. Good luck. Hope you don't have to clean for a while.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

I had a problem w/ TOTW doing the same thing. it was just too rich for my dogs. i have them on wellness regular (not core) and they are all doing wonderfully.
it's a feed i've used for years and i'm very pleased w/ how all my dogs are doing.


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

Dogs systems can be very different... mine eat TOTW and dont have that problem at all...We switch between the Salmon and the Bison formulas.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

Ok, No surprises this morning and no surprises when I got home. Feed him a little of the old food and no accidents, feed him a little more with about 1/4 cup of blue buffalo, will see what happens in the morning. Lord Please no more accidents LOL


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

Feathersprings said:


> Dogs systems can be very different... mine eat TOTW and dont have that problem at all...We switch between the Salmon and the Bison formulas.


I have went through 3 small bags of dog food and have anywhere from 1/2 to 3/4 full. I wish I knew someone with a dog that I could give it to and the crazy thing is he really liked that food.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

vtomblin said:


> I would suggest a vet trip anyway to check for giardia. Happens lots in pups. Seems it's been going on a while. Research it and see what you think. I feed raw and blue buffalo. I am happy with the chow. Good luck. Hope you don't have to clean for a while.


I know and he needs a bath and a hair cut, hair growing all in his eyes, almost tempted to get my clipper and have at it, but he needs a full grooming, if everything works out its off to the groomers for him. My granddaugher (she's 5) says MaMu Fallen needs a bath, he smelsl dusty. LOL


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

Ok, I may hat to re-track about the TOTW, went to the Vet on Saturday and quess what he had worms, I told the Doctor that the Breeder wormed him before I got him, but I guess I wasn't thinking about him having a lot of worms YUCH!!!!! Well he got a does of medicine and not his stools are getting really firm now. Vet said I will need to bring him back in 2 weeks and worm him again, then 2 weeks after that he will do another test for worms. I have my finger crossed, but I'm happy no more puppy pudding. LOL


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Happy it wasn't the food he loved so much. My vet said 98% of all puppies have worms and have to be wormed a couple of times. I didn't buy that, but I did have my puppies stool tested- no worms. He still wanted me to worm her, but I said no. I agreed to have her stool checked again in a few weeks. Again, no worms, but according to him that is highly unusual and all puppies need to be wormed. He told me to have her stool checked again at a year just to be sure. I think all puppies should have their stool checked. 

Are you going back to TOTW?


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## papoodles (Jun 27, 2011)

*So happy for you, itsfoxfire58..*

That Fallen is on the mend..worms.oh yuck..but easily taken care of?
The worst case(s) of diarrhea I ever had was when I gave all four of my dogs nice big beef marrow bones..Ewww..

The marrow was too rich for them..all four of them got sick.

I'm with you Outwest, on the worms- in all my years of living with dogs I've only had to have one worming done...do you think it depends on locality, maybe some areas are 'richer' in worms than others?
We do clean up immediately after the dogs, but other than that- why wouldn't our dogs pick up worms readily?
Watch: now I have jinxed myself..:-(


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

outwest said:


> Happy it wasn't the food he loved so much. My vet said 98% of all puppies have worms and have to be wormed a couple of times. I didn't buy that, but I did have my puppies stool tested- no worms. He still wanted me to worm her, but I said no. I agreed to have her stool checked again in a few weeks. Again, no worms, but according to him that is highly unusual and all puppies need to be wormed. He told me to have her stool checked again at a year just to be sure. I think all puppies should have their stool checked.
> 
> Are you going back to TOTW?


I started him on Blue Buffalo, but I had a surpise for me on yesterday morning, the runs again, with worms all in it. DANG, so I rinsed him off clean out his cage and told myself if he does it one more time we will need to go to vet and sure enough mega runs with worms (that almost sound like a dish with worms LOL). Well, I rinsed him off really quick called the vet, asked if I could bring him back in and have them check him out and I would come back and get him (granddaughter had final swimming lessons) and will be back to get him before they closed. I asked if they could test him for (G) someone mentioned that to me in a earlier post. Well they called me and said that he tested positive for worms, so the medicine must have worked, and no for (G), but positive for a slight stomach infection. So some medicine for the for the runs and infection. I asked them if he was dehydrated as he looked like he lost a little weight and they told me he actually gain a pound LOL. If you could see how he runs, jumps and leaps you wouldn't think he was having a problem.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

papoodles said:


> That Fallen is on the mend..worms.oh yuck..but easily taken care of?
> The worst case(s) of diarrhea I ever had was when I gave all four of my dogs nice big beef marrow bones..Ewww..
> 
> The marrow was too rich for them..all four of them got sick.
> ...


LOL, you need to read the reply to OW. LOL I kind of blame myself, when the breeder said you wormed him again, I was thinking "well he's been wormed why he was younger so there just giving him an extra dose". I should have had him wormed again 2 weeks later. I know better than that, but I did think it was the food. I hope you didn't jinx yourself. LOL


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Try not to worry yourself too much over this. Worms are very common in pups and pretty easy to treat. Just make sure that you do the follow ups that the vet recommended to make sure they are all gone this time. With a heavy parasite load, you will usually see diarrhea and even blood in the stool (along with the shed worms) for a couple days after deworming. This is completely normal and not something I would attribute to the food. BUT if I were you, I would *wait to do anymore food changes* until you are cleared for worms by the vet. 

My advice on the food: TOTW or Blue Buffalo are great choices. Honestly for a puppy, I would probably go with Blue Buffalo puppy. I don't generally recommend TOTW for larger breed puppies because it doesn't have the appropriate Ca/P ratios for a growing large breed puppy (I know some people don't consider Spoos large breed, but IMO better safe than sorry). The significance of this is that inappropriate Ca/P levels can cause the pup to grow to quickly, causing bone and joint problems in the future. 

I think TOTW is an amazing food. Both of my spoo girls are on it and do wonderfully. They have teeny tiny perfect poops day in and day out (no inconsistency). A common trend that I see among people who feed TOTW is that if you _overfeed_ it will cause diarrhea (I have heard this with BB as well). It is a nutrient dense food, much more so than the Diamond Naturals that you were feeding, so overfeeding can and will cause loose stools. I would guess that a dog would need anywhere from 3/4 to 2/3 the amount of TOTW as they would of something less dense like Diamond Naturals (ex: if you were feeding 1 cup twice a day of DN, you would probably need to feed 2/3-3/4 cup twice a day of straight TOTW for the same amount of calories). So make sure when you are feeding higher calorie food that you decrease the total amount of food accordingly. 

Glad to hear Fallen is now on the mend. Worms can be nasty little buggers. Good luck finding a food that he loves and does well on!


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

outwest said:


> My vet said 98% of all puppies have worms and have to be wormed a couple of times. I didn't buy that, but I did have my puppies stool tested- no worms.


Indeed they do, but congrats on your puppy not being among them!  As I understand it, roundworms often persist inside a dog in a residual form. When a bitch is pregnant, it's possible for worm larvae to enter her puppies _in utero_. When the puppies are born, their immune systems are not able to suppress the worms and they develop and become infective, causing the puppies to shed eggs into the environment. The eggs can persist for years and cannot be reliably destroyed by any chemical means, and the worms can also be transmitted to humans coming into contact with the eggs, which is why good breeders should have started the puppies on a worming programme (or have them tested for worms) before they go to their new homes.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

Sookster said:


> Try not to worry yourself too much over this. Worms are very common in pups and pretty easy to treat. Just make sure that you do the follow ups that the vet recommended to make sure they are all gone this time. With a heavy parasite load, you will usually see diarrhea and even blood in the stool (along with the shed worms) for a couple days after deworming. This is completely normal and not something I would attribute to the food. BUT if I were you, I would *wait to do anymore food changes* until you are cleared for worms by the vet.
> 
> My advice on the food: TOTW or Blue Buffalo are great choices. Honestly for a puppy, I would probably go with Blue Buffalo puppy. I don't generally recommend TOTW for larger breed puppies because it doesn't have the appropriate Ca/P ratios for a growing large breed puppy (I know some people don't consider Spoos large breed, but IMO better safe than sorry). The significance of this is that inappropriate Ca/P levels can cause the pup to grow to quickly, causing bone and joint problems in the future.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I originally got the Diamond Lamb for large breed puppies, because I read that it was a pretty good food, not the top ones but better than pedigree, Iams and few others and it was reasonable. But when he wasn't eating it hardly, so I went to TOTW, but know I'm just going to feed him the BB. I felt so sorry for him, when I would come to his crate and see he had made a mess, he just looked at me with those eyes, as to say Mom I'm Sorry. The crazy thing is that the breeder told me his was house trained and hes never did anything when he was in the house, but he never lets me know when he needs to go out, I just let him out in the morning and after he's been playing around in the house for a few hours, I let him out to go do his business. I usually get up about 4 in the morning and let my dogs out, but he never even whined to let me know he needed to go out. Is this normal, my other dogs do it if they need to go out sooner.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

zyrcona said:


> Indeed they do, but congrats on your puppy not being among them!  As I understand it, roundworms often persist inside a dog in a residual form. When a bitch is pregnant, it's possible for worm larvae to enter her puppies _in utero_. When the puppies are born, their immune systems are not able to suppress the worms and they develop and become infective, causing the puppies to shed eggs into the environment. The eggs can persist for years and cannot be reliably destroyed by any chemical means, and the worms can also be transmitted to humans coming into contact with the eggs, which is why good breeders should have started the puppies on a worming programme (or have them tested for worms) before they go to their new homes.


This is what threw me off, usually the breeder will have the puppies wormed a few time before they are sent home. I got Fallen when he was 7 months and she did worm him the day before I got him, so I thought this was just a precaution. He is such a good boy, full of energy and he loves to be rubbed.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Sonya has never let me know when she needed to go out in a year that I have had her. I tried teaching her to ring bells but she hated them and they made her afraid to go to the door  So we gave up. She never has accidents, so I don't guess it matters. She just holds it until I let her out. Nova has let me know only once in almost 3 months that she needed to go out, and it was when I was very distracted and forgot to let her out. It had probably been close to 7 or 8 hours since she had last been out and she had been up and active so she was probably about to burst. Even then, she just went and sat by the door until I noticed her sitting there patiently and realized what she wanted. I kind of think they think they are too "dignified" to ask to go to the restroom lol. 

The BB is a good choice. Maybe stick with that until he is older, then if you want to try the TOTW again go for it. I personally like grain free over grain inclusive and that is all I feed, but it is almost impossible to find grain free that has the right mineral levels for growing puppies (Orijen is, but is soooooooooo expensive). 

Poor Fallen. The times he has had accidents he probably held it absolutely as long as he could. I raised a lab puppy with awful food allergies and he had really bad diarrhea off and on for several months. He had so many accidents even though he was flawlessly crate/house trained. It isn't a training issue and doesn't mean that he isn't house trained or that he doesn't know better. He does, that's probably why he gives you his shame face. They just can't hold it when their little tummies are upset. Hope he is good as new soon!


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

Sookster said:


> Sonya has never let me know when she needed to go out in a year that I have had her. I tried teaching her to ring bells but she hated them and they made her afraid to go to the door  So we gave up. She never has accidents, so I don't guess it matters. She just holds it until I let her out. Nova has let me know only once in almost 3 months that she needed to go out, and it was when I was very distracted and forgot to let her out. It had probably been close to 7 or 8 hours since she had last been out and she had been up and active so she was probably about to burst. Even then, she just went and sat by the door until I noticed her sitting there patiently and realized what she wanted. I kind of think they think they are too "dignified" to ask to go to the restroom lol.
> 
> The BB is a good choice. Maybe stick with that until he is older, then if you want to try the TOTW again go for it. I personally like grain free over grain inclusive and that is all I feed, but it is almost impossible to find grain free that has the right mineral levels for growing puppies (Orijen is, but is soooooooooo expensive).
> 
> Poor Fallen. The times he has had accidents he probably held it absolutely as long as he could. I raised a lab puppy with awful food allergies and he had really bad diarrhea off and on for several months. He had so many accidents even though he was flawlessly crate/house trained. It isn't a training issue and doesn't mean that he isn't house trained or that he doesn't know better. He does, that's probably why he gives you his shame face. They just can't hold it when their little tummies are upset. Hope he is good as new soon!


I remember one time that he was standing at the door, but that's the only time I've seen him do this. What funny is he hurries up runs outside tinkle and runs back to the door to come in and I tell him no you go finish, then he goes on the grass and tinkles for a long time. It's like he thinks he's going to miss something going on in the house. LOL He is so funny and I love him so much, I just want him to get better.


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