# Alan Waterman in NY?????



## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

Been reading about him........................


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

I wanted to go to his seminar but he is mostly on the east cost. He is also a Pro poodle handler

I think i will learn a lot about grooming from the people I have gotten in contact with


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_p4p what is it about :questionmark:
_


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

spoospirit said:


> _p4p what is it about :questionmark:
> _


If its a seminar its probably will cover this 
http://www.alamanhandling.com/GroomingSeminar.html


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

http://laureateshelties.blogspot.com/2009/03/poodle-grooming-101.html


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## spoofan (Dec 11, 2008)

Here is something,that does not show Mr.Waterman in a very good light.
http://standardpoodlesrus.com/Trust.htm


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

spoofan said:


> Here is something,that does not show Mr.Waterman in a very good light.
> http://standardpoodlesrus.com/Trust.htm


Jenna...exactly I just wanted to see if anyone else had read the horrible events that she suffered through. I thought about emailing her, because I can relate to her and the whole being new thing and not having a reputation of herself built yet and seeming to look like a "trouble maker". He is on my coast, that could have been just as easily me with Zoey....Things like this I am lucky to find on my own since I do not have spoo's there would normaly be no reason for me to see it. I just happen to be researching breeders when I stumbled across it. This is a VERY good reason networking expecially for newbie's is a very good thing.


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## jester's mom (Nov 25, 2008)

Yeah, I had seen that about him but decided when I read the beginning of this post that I wasn't sure if I should bring it up or not. I had shared this spoospirit a while ago. I had found it while doing a search on poodle show grooming. WOW, was all I could say as I read it and saw the pics!!!


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

I know that when newbies come in and have a bad experience like that with someone who is established, it is hard for us to say anything to anyone because "who would believe us" so we are stuck and I think things like this should be made known expecially when it is someone in a position they could do something like this/


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Yeah read that also I could not believe what I was reading. 
I didn't understand P4P for making a thread about him.... I thought she was was excite that he will have a grooming seminar near her


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_OK....I'm depressed and feel like crying. How can anyone, forget that he is a professional, do that to a dog :questionmark::questionmark::questionmark::questionmark:

I can't believe that no one took any action against this man to either clean up his act or shut it down!!
_


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> Yeah read that also I could not believe what I was reading.
> I didn't understand P4P for making a thread about him.... I thought she was was excite that he will have a grooming seminar near her


I did not mean to mislead anyone by this thread, but I wanted to know if anyone else had read it, there were quite a few people who emailed her if you read them, that they had something like that happen to their dogs in his care as well. I just was not sure how to approach it on here that is all.


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

spoospirit said:


> _OK....I'm depressed and feel like crying. How can anyone, forget that he is a professional, do that to a dog :questionmark::questionmark::questionmark::questionmark:
> 
> I can't believe that no one took any action against this man to either clean up his act or shut it down!!
> _


I know exactly how you feel......I wanted to cry as well, but things could have been alot worse, Jenna could have been dead with the way she was being cared for, so there is a happy ending at least.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

passion4poodles said:


> I did not mean to mislead anyone by this thread, but I wanted to know if anyone else had read it, there were quite a few people who emailed her if you read them, that they had something like that happen to their dogs in his care as well. I just was not sure how to approach it on here that is all.


Yeah this event that happened is very old ............. My mentor uses Alan and he has had no problems with him. I am not saying what he did is right but there really is no point bringing up the pass. You can privately email the breeder for condolences


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> Yeah this event that happened is very old ............. My mentor uses Alan and he has had no problems with him. I am not saying what he did is right but there really is no point bringing up the pass. You can privately email the breeder for condolences



SO, are you saying that if i have any questions in regards to things that have happened in the past I should not ask on this forum???? I had no idea there was an expiration date on information......


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

passion4poodles said:


> SO, are you saying that if i have any questions in regards to things that have happened in the past I should not ask on this forum???? I had no idea there was an expiration date on information......



You did not ask about Alan waterman , you said he is in your town and you been reading about him ? ( this could be good or bad you did not make your self clear) You did not ask is Alan waterman a good handler has anyone used him ... or has anyone had any problems with him.

I am not saying you can't ask about the man but your first post did not have any questions. Like I said i did not understand what this thread was about. Now everyone is posting on how bad He is based on something in the pass. Some people still use him and have no problems. I know breeders in CA and use him and they like him.


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

passion4poodles said:


> Been reading about him........................


I did not say he was in my town............



roxy25 said:


> You did not ask about Alan waterman , you said he is in your town and you been reading about him ? ( this could be good or bad you did not make your self clear) You did not ask is Alan waterman a good handler has anyone used him ... or has anyone had any problems with him.
> 
> I am not saying you can't ask about the man but your first post did not have any questions. Like I said i did not understand what this thread was about. Now everyone is posting on how bad He is based on something in the pass. Some people still use him and have no problems. I know breeders in CA and use him and they like him.



Ok, now I have an opinion on the other side, I wanted to know about him, was not sure how to bring it up, it happened in the past but it is significant information for someone who is ON the same coast as he is and shows and is a new person in the dog game......now that you are no longer confused as to the thread, and you have given your opinion on the topic, you don't have to reply if you do not want to. I was not asking for an argument, and I was not trying to personally attack you or anyone else, so I would still like to know what others opinions on the matter is. Just because it happened in the past does that mean that it should be locked away where it is nerver spoken of again because NOW he has no complaints against him so NOW it would not be taking a risk at having him handle/board a dog since it was "in the pass"?


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

"( this could be good or bad you did not make your self clear)" :questionmark: Please explain...good or bad what? I made myself clear after the first post, that I was not sure how to bring it up, so I think I have cleared things up in other posts here.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

passion4poodles said:


> "( this could be good or bad you did not make your self clear)" :questionmark: Please explain...good or bad what? I made myself clear after the first post, that I was not sure how to bring it up, so I think I have cleared things up in other posts here.


Yes I understand that . I was referring to before you posted what your thread was about. I just don't understand what this thread was created for ? did you wanted to warn people or talk about him behind his back ? 

Again I don't agree with what has happen but people do make mistakes and some people have forgiven. 

I will just leave this thread alone .... I have heard good things about him so far. I don't think people are having problems. There is not that many show people on here to get the kind of answers you are looking for. Google Alan up and start emailing breeders and see what they say about him. MANY breeders will come up.

AGAIN I never met the man but I don't judge people based on someone else experiences. My mentor uses him and he has yet to warn me about him. I will ask him for you when I call him on Tuesday


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> You did not ask about Alan waterman , you said he is in your town and you been reading about him ? ( this could be good or bad you did not make your self clear) You did not ask is Alan waterman a good handler has anyone used him ... or has anyone had any problems with him.
> 
> *I am not saying you can't ask about the man but your first post did not have any questions. Like I said i did not understand what this thread was about. Now everyone is posting on how bad He is based on something in the pass.* Some people still use him and have no problems. I know breeders in CA and use him and they like him.


(bold emphasis mine) 
She doesn't need to ask any questions in my opinion, she was stating facts, period. Aparently more than one person had problems with this handler and just because it was in the past, doesn't mean it didn't happen, nor does it make it less important or excusable. Your mentor and others in California may be very happy with him and that's fine, but what he did is still horrible, in my opinon. This is a public forum and everyone has the right to know the good, the bad and the ugly.


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

Ah, when you first posted my first thought was that I had read some unpleasent things about him. I wasn't 100% sure it was the same guy though so I remianed silent. Now I see it was... I bet he is still a decent teacher though, it can't hurt to attend a seminar if you can learn something useful from it. 

I agree that his actions if they indeed happened (and I'm not questioning if they did or not b/c I don't care) are inexcusable forever... Nothing makes that ok. Hopefuly is isn't something that will happen again and he continues to do well for himself. People make mistakes and sometimes have poor judgement. I believe in forgive, but I don't forget and I can't imagine that I'm the only person who feels like that. You can't learn from your mistakes if you forget  

If I had the chance to attend one of his seminars though I would probably go. You can never stop learning, ever.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_I suppose you do have a point there, Wonderpup. There are some instructors out there who are questionable in their private lives and their business lives. If he teaches an ethical class with professionalism, I imagine it would be like cutting your nose off to spite your face not to attend to further your own education.

The one argument I can see happening is that by attending his classes you are supporting him and enabling him to continue to do what he does outside of his classes. 

I am a firm believer in forgiveness but I also need for the offender to change their inappropriate behavior. It seems, from what I read of the other's e-mails, that he has done this thing many times. So sad. 
_


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

Thank you


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

spoospirit said:


> _
> 
> The one argument I can see happening is that by attending his classes you are supporting him and enabling him to continue to do what he does outside of his classes.
> 
> _


That is true I suppose. You could always find another seminar to attend, there are no shortage of them. Though they are all taught a little differently it would depend if you could find another one that would give you a similar experience and similar knowledge. In a perfect world you could attend every single one of them LoL 

I would think he makes a fair amount of his living from handling and grooming though not giving siminars?


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

WonderPup said:


> That is true I suppose. You could always find another seminar to attend, there are no shortage of them. Though they are all taught a little differently it would depend if you could find another one that would give you a similar experience and similar knowledge. In a perfect world you could attend every single one of them LoL
> 
> I would think he makes a fair amount of his living from handling and grooming though not giving siminars?


I guess my main goal on this was to find out if anyone would trust this person, not just HIM but anyone who has had evidence like this set against them would you trust them with your dog? It would not even have to come from someone who shows...just YOUR dog, show/pet/compatition don't matter, just would you trust anyone who has marks against them with YOUR dog? That is what I was looking for really. I have read alot of forgive but never forget, but question still is, if it were YOUR dog and you were trying to decide on a boarding facility, would you leave it with someone who has had this kind of negligance in the past?


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## spoofan (Dec 11, 2008)

passion4poodles said:


> I guess my main goal on this was to find out if anyone would trust this person, not just HIM but anyone who has had evidence like this set against them would you trust them with your dog? It would not even have to come from someone who shows...just YOUR dog, show/pet/compatition don't matter, just would you trust anyone who has marks against them with YOUR dog? That is what I was looking for really. I have read alot of forgive but never forget, but question still is, if it were YOUR dog and you were trying to decide on a boarding facility, would you leave it with someone who has had this kind of negligance in the past?


Absolutely not.
It would be like allowing a nanny with a bad reputation to take care of my kids.
The breeder that had this happen to Jenna went through a lot of trouble to document,take photos,copy e-mails,etc.
What the man did boils down to animal neglect and because I do not condone such,I would never support his business in any way.
As far as talking about him behind his back...that's BS...he is a public figure and this information about him is out in the open...something that I am certain he would like to make 'go away'.
BUT,like everything in life...there are consequences to your actions.
If he truly cared about dogs,this never would have happened.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!

I am sorry I lost the intention of the thread.

I would never leave anything with someone who had this kind of evidence against him regarding his reputation with his care of his kennel and his charges. The pictures of the poodle were sickening. To see e-mails from others who received their animals back in like condition is very disturbing and more disturbing is that no organization did anything about it!!! Actually, that is shocking!

I have been to homes where puppies were being offered and walked into a similar situation with the stench and feces everywhere and dogs that were covered in it. I feel that this is a criminal act and should be responded to accordingly.

I can understand why people who live a great distance from a handler would trust the good things they heard and take a chance of leaving their dog with them due to the cost involved to go see the facility in person. However, I wouldn't want to leave my dogs with anyone before looking over the facility and watching how the person operates.
_


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

spoofan said:


> Absolutely not.
> It would be like allowing a nanny with a bad reputation to take care of my kids.
> The breeder that had this happen to Jenna went through a lot of trouble to document,take photos,copy e-mails,etc.
> What the man did boils down to animal neglect and because I do not condone such,I would never support his business in any way.
> ...


_Very well said, Spoofan._


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

LoL, when hell freezes over maybe I'd consider it, otherwise NO NO NO and NO!! Not one of my babies! I would be cautious of any handler you live very far from, even well known ones. Of course a lot, probably most, are decent people and treat the dogs in their care well. It's up to you the owner though to make sure that is the case before you send your dog into a situation like that. 

Accidents happen and they should be learned from and forgiven, but that was no accident. You could call it a lot of things from lazyiness to abuse but not accidental. You don't accidently let a dog get into that condition, especialy if you are a professional... you know better.


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

spoofan said:


> Absolutely not.
> It would be like allowing a nanny with a bad reputation to take care of my kids.
> The breeder that had this happen to Jenna went through a lot of trouble to document,take photos,copy e-mails,etc.
> What the man did boils down to animal neglect and because I do not condone such,I would never support his business in any way.
> ...





spoospirit said:


> _ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!
> 
> I am sorry I lost the intention of the thread.
> 
> ...





WonderPup said:


> LoL, when hell freezes over maybe I'd consider it, otherwise NO NO NO and NO!! Not one of my babies! I would be cautious of any handler you live very far from, even well known ones. Of course a lot, probably most, are decent people and treat the dogs in their care well. It's up to you the owner though to make sure that is the case before you send your dog into a situation like that.
> 
> Accidents happen and they should be learned from and forgiven, but that was no accident. You could call it a lot of things from lazyiness to abuse but not accidental. You don't accidently let a dog get into that condition, especialy if you are a professional... you know better.


Thank you, those were my thoughts exactly, I wanted to get input from others on this matter in case this ever became an issue for me in the future....FAR future. I was not as spoofan said "talking behind his back" I did sorta miss that part the first time I read through it, I would not feel I was talking behind an actors back if I were critiquing their work because they are there for the public TO do that, I did not say anything to slander him, I just wanted to know. I would NEVER leave my dog with someone with that kind of reputation, BUT had I never read on it, and inquired about it here, who knows ZOey could have been Jenna.....he is within distance of me to use as a handler, what if I would have chosen him not knowing of his past negligance and entrusted my dog to him? Or anyone else for that matter who may be like that. The only way to know is to inquire yourself and basicly reach a conclution based on the data you gathered, so that is what I have done and you have been a great help. Thank you eace:


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## FUZBUTZ (Aug 23, 2008)

No I definately would not leave any animal of mine with a person who does not have any compassion what- so -ever for animals, and apparently this person does not, or this would never have happened, even in the past.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_


passion4poodles said:



I was not as spoofan said "talking behind his back" I did sorta miss that part the first time I read through it, I would not feel I was talking behind an actors back if I were critiquing their work because they are there for the public TO do that, I did not say anything to slander him, I just wanted to know.

Click to expand...

I do not view this as back stabbing or slander. This man is in the public arena as pointed out earlier. Being a public figure, he is subject to public scrutiny. Usually one who is in a position like this is very careful to make sure they are in compliance with the expectations of his chosen career. That makes it all the more horrifying that he would deliberately allow such conditions and neglect. As I said before, I view him as a criminal for what he has done to the animals in his care and he should be prosecuted as such.

It seems, like other famous public figures, he enjoys an exception to repercussions legally. What a shame! This allows him to justify his sorry self and the conditions under which he keeps his charges.

_


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

spoospirit said:


> _
> 
> I do not view this as back stabbing or slander. This man is in the public arena as pointed out earlier. Being a public figure, he is subject to public scrutiny. Usually one who is in a position like this is very careful to make sure they are in compliance with the expectations of his chosen career. That makes it all the more horrifying that he would deliberately allow such conditions and neglect. As I said before, I view him as a criminal for what he has done to the animals in his care and he should be prosecuted as such.
> 
> ...


I was not saying YOU said I was talking behind his back just that I agreed with you that it was not talking behind his back...Roxy25 said I was talking behind his back NOT you. Sorry if I made it seem that you said it if I did I know you didn't....I just agree with you as he is a public figure and there is not "talking behind his back" when he is discussed. Sorry SpooSpirit these posts are getting confusing for me lol, lI just want to let everyone know that I did not start this thread to cause a conflict or "start rumors" I just wanted the information because I know there are things said about other handlers that are rumor and I figure just find out for myself by gathering info from others and come to my own determination, but with the evidence in this matter, I needed to knwo how others felt about it.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_I guess that was confusing as I did not make a quote as to who said it. 

I was actually generalizing. I never meant it to sound like I said that you were talking behind his back..sorry for the confusion. What I was saying is that I don't consider it back stabbing or slander for ANYONE to comment on a public figure. This is America and it is our birth right to make comment on a public figure without repercussion. 

I apologize that you took that personally. I certainly didn't mean to hurt your feelings.
_


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

spoospirit said:


> _I guess that was confusing as I did not make a quote as to who said it.
> 
> I was actually generalizing. I never meant it to sound like I said that you were talking behind his back..sorry for the confusion. What I was saying is that I don't consider it back stabbing or slander for ANYONE to comment on a public figure. This is America and it is our birth right to make comment on a public figure without repercussion.
> 
> ...


LOL!!! OK OK I you did not hurt my feelings I thought I hurt yours LOL!!!! I thought You thought I was thinking YOU said I was talking behind his back LOL!!! WOW talk about confusing, so lets be on the same page LOL! I agree with everyone who says they would never leave their dog with ANYONE with that sort of past and that speaking of a pulic figure is NOT talking behind their backs lol....ok and also agree that this is something weather in the past or not should not be forgotten, and new people if inquiring about it shoud be allowed to inquire about and have opinions placed on both sides. SO in the future lol, newbies can make a more informed choice on matters such as this without being persicuted for wanting to know lol.. SO I think that everyone...save one.. is on the same page as far as not trusting and the right to the knowledge..........YA US!!!!!!!! LMAO!!!!


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_I GOT IT!!! Whew! LOL
_


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

:whoo: So glad lol, I think this thread is done lol. Thank you for your input guys and next time I have a question I will just ask and try to be as cleas as possible so no one gets confused lol.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Sorry but someone that could leave a dog in a pin like that in the condition she was in and still wanting to get paid is a heartless, aweful person. Forget the coat condition, that dog was abused sitting in a kennel like that with no interaction. Thats aweful!

I would never consider using a handler, paying for a seminar, or even taking a moment to say hello to a person like that. If he could not handle the maintenence of what he took on he could of made a phone call. What would of happened if she hadnt went to his home. Im sorry, but the outcome would of been worse. 

Thanks for posting the link about this story. Im glad I got a chance to finally read it.


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

I've seen the site bashing him, and I have to say something about the site/situation bugged me too. It did seem like the breeder was just talking about him behind his back. If it really happened why did she not sue or call the authorities? She documented everything afterall. If the point of her site is too educate and warn, she needs to separate the emotion (I'm sure this wouldn't be easy) and just stick to the facts. Why didn't Mr. Waterman go after her for slander or the remainder of the bill? Something about the whole situation bugs me. I do have to say that the original post could have been worded better. Why not link to the breeders website or ask what kind of handler he is? (Thankyou to the person who did, btw.) P4P, are/were you considering using him?

I don't know what happened exactly, so I won't join in the bashing (I'm not refering to the members here, but those on the breeder's site.) It's important to remember there are two sides. I've never seen or heard Mr. Waterman address this. He is still handling and apparently does quite well. He is still highly respected by many breeders. Having said that, I probably wouldn't hire him either. (Not that I have a show dog or he would take it.)


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_Somewhere on her site it does say that she tried to do something about it through ASPCA I believe, but they apparently did nothing. She also called another state authority who stated that if the ASPCA wasn't doing anything, they weren't either. 

That's all sort of weird but after the problems I had with my last daughter at 16 with all of the calls I made to every authority I could think of to implore them for help with her with no one offering me anything but that if I tried to physically restrain her from walking out the door anytime she wanted to, I would be arrested and put in jail, I'm not questioning it too hard. NO JOKE!! The law does not work for everyone.

Sometimes, despite our very best efforts, we still fail to achieve things that are very important to us do to circumstances beyond our control.

Yes, I will admit that she was quite emotional. That is not the best way to approach a problem like that publicly. I imagine that it must have been very difficult for her to remove herself from what she was feeling and just present everything in an even tone and let people decide for themselves. Although, while reading through all the yelling and venting, I do feel that she had her paperwork and facts in order. She even posted the cashed checks with dates and all. The pictures of her dog speak for themselves.
_


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

I have said I was sorry multiple times for the wording and the way the subject was approached so I will not do it again, I will say that I was not researching handlers AT THE TIME that I found this information, but I have been doing some looking at handlers and how well they do in the ring. I show my dogs, and I know how hard it would be for me to finish on without a pro handler, so yes I do look at the records Handlers on my coast have so that if I come close to finishing one and need to have one to do so, then I want all the info I can obtain to decide who to use. If I had not stumbled upon this info, I may have considered him, I would NEVER do it now. I did not start this thread to start a fight between members of this forum like I said I have OVER explained now my intentions for this thread as well as my apologies for the clarity of it.


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

spoospirit said:


> _Somewhere on her site it does say that she tried to do something about it through ASPCA I believe, but they apparently did nothing. She also called another state authority who stated that if the ASPCA wasn't doing anything, they weren't either.
> 
> That's all sort of weird but after the problems I had with my last daughter at 16 with all of the calls I made to every authority I could think of to implore them for help with her with no one offering me anything but that if I tried to physically restrain her from walking out the door anytime she wanted to, I would be arrested and put in jail, I'm not questioning it too hard. NO JOKE!! The law does not work for everyone.
> 
> ...


I've had similar experiences w/ AC in particular not wanting to do their job, but I don't understand why either party didn't take this to civil court. I understand not wanting to bother w/ that mess, but when you take the time to put it all on the net, it doesn't seem like much more work to file a small claims case. I also find it odd that Mr. Waterman hasn't taken her to court for defamation/slander if what she says is false. Like I said both sides seem iffy to me.


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

just a thought that jumped to my mind reading your last post Harley. 
If I were Mr. Waterman and I had indeed not billed my client correctly and not provided the service she had payed for, (which obviously he didin't since the dog was so matted), I myself would be very hesitant to try and take this to civil court. Surely if he had dared to file suit for the money he may or may not have been owed she would have filed a countersuit. The pictures and he documentation might very well win out in such a case and he could end up owing her a very large amount.

As for why she didn't take him to court I would think that would be obvious. If the animal control agency said there was no recourse through them she would have a difficult time proving damages. Unfortuanltly in the eyes of the law in most places animals are just animals..  
When I filled against a home remodeling company proving why I wanted and was entitled to the amount I wanted, well it was tricky. I got what I wanted mostly on the fact that the dog in question died but it was difficult to pin down an amount as far as damages were concerned. We didn't have to go to court in the end, they settled b/c I had a GREAT lawyer who convinced them that I could and would be asking for upwards of 50,000 (loss of companionship or something or other??) and would get every penny of it because of such and such case several years before. I was a bitchy 18 year old to say the least and mean LoL. I guess it was worth it to them to just go ahead and have me out of their hair. 

As for him not addressing this issue I believe I saw a letter from him to whatever this list is they keep referencing addressing the issue. Assuming it was written by him, but I don't see the motivation for it to be made up. 
As far as not addressing it further than that, were it all true WOULD YOU bring it up publicly more than once? I probably wouldn't.


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## missmygirls (Jun 5, 2012)

passion4poodles said:


> Jenna...exactly I just wanted to see if anyone else had read the horrible events that she suffered through. I thought about emailing her, because I can relate to her and the whole being new thing and not having a reputation of herself built yet and seeming to look like a "trouble maker". He is on my coast, that could have been just as easily me with Zoey....Things like this I am lucky to find on my own since I do not have spoo's there would normaly be no reason for me to see it. I just happen to be researching breeders when I stumbled across it. This is a VERY good reason networking expecially for newbie's is a very good thing.


 I just got done reading about Jenna. That man sounds like a pig. I would like to know why he was not prosecuted for animal cruelty? And after reading that why ANYONE would trust their dog to his care for any reason?


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## missmygirls (Jun 5, 2012)

missmygirls said:


> I just got done reading about Jenna. That man sounds like a pig. I would like to know why he was not prosecuted for animal cruelty? And after reading that why ANYONE would trust their dog to his care for any reason?


Meaning the ASPCA doing something bout it....


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

exactly Missy...if that happened why weren't the authorities contacted?...Don't believe everything you read on the internet ESPECIALLY on this forum or sites posted here -.-


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## sarahmurphy (Mar 22, 2012)

I'm going to go way out on a limb here and give my comments.

First, I would never have let my dog go with any handler without having a firm professional relationship, agreement, and contract for the services to be provided. I would visit the kennel and probably schedule a few "Unannounced" visits prior, just as I did when I bought my puppy from a breeder... While it may be easy to be on "good behaviour" for a show or an appointment, it's hard to maintain that without making it a lifestyle... It is easy to lay this all on Mr. Waterman, but the owner was in Alabama for 9 months, without contact with her dog, and I have to question the soundness of that choice. It is not one I would make without a strong personal and professional relationship with my dog's caregiver. 

New York State has some very strict and enforceable laws about dog ownership/kennels/boarding and grooming facilities. I can't see the authorities in that state turning a blind eye when they could rake in the cash from re homing dogs and fining the proprietor, as well as even seizing and auctioning the real estate and assets. (Yes, the law there allows that). 

I did, in fact, meet Mr. Waterman, in person, recently, and I did see two of his dogs. They all seemed pretty calm and well-groomed - more than I'd think was possible in a matter of the few hours pre-show... They may have all just been on good behaviour. I have no way of knowing. He may be a bit uppity and full of himself and his dogs, but no more so, I'd say, than any of the rest of the "Poodle People" (including many of us here, and that's my just off the cuff honest opinion of my brief conversation with him)... He was well spoken, as seemed to be well liked by local people here (East Coast), many of whom seemed to have known him for years - through this and likely other life events (for all of them). 

Again, this thread just reinforces how important it is to know who you are dealing with, really, even if it means it is less than convenient for you, or for them. 

And that's my absolutely refusing to throw stones opinion here. I know we have the story of one person. I know we have our responses here. I doubt we will ever really know the absolute truth of the matter, and it distresses me to have us, as a community, damning anyone based on "Facts" and "Truths" that we have not seen with our own eyes. 

I'm going to make some calls, to some real life people I know, who probably know of the situation, and definitely know Mr. Waterman, and see where I get with it, for myself. I, personally, find this whole thing distressing - whether it is "News" or "Mud slinging". 

edited to add I have spoken with some real life people I know, and if this happened, it happened a long time ago, and there is no apparent evidence that anyone other than the author of the accusatory website has any evidence whatsoever that Mr. Waterman is anything other than what he represents himself to be - a breeder, a groomer, a handler, an instructor, and a personable human being who is generous with his time and knowledge, and happens to have, himself, some beautiful and well socialized dogs. The dogs I met were social, calm, and beautiful. I find it hard to believe there are any animals or people in his care that are neglected as claimed. 

I may be wrong. He may be criminal. If that is, in fact, the case, plenty of people have been fooled locally, and shame on all of us. Again, I reiterate that it is important to know who you are dealing with, always. 

sarah


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