# Dog Fights/Attacks KNOW WHAT TO DO!



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Thanks - one of those situations I hope never to be in, but good to be prepared with a method that works.

I came across another very useful article on what to do about a loose dog charging you: Hello Off Leash Dogs. Meet My Friend Direct Stop. | notes from a dog walker Lots of ideas on how to safely stop another dog getting close enough to cause any damage.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Thank You! I will tell everyone I know about this .


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

I originally posted this reply to Sugarfoot's thread, but realized it was more appropriate here:





taem said:


> Seeing two dogs get killed will do that to you. You don't have time to put in practice dogfight stopping techniques, a small dog is *snap* *shake* dead, takes seconds. It's actually one of the reasons I wanted a standard, not a mini, because a standard can get injured obviously, but you'd have time to try to save its life at least.


I used to spend a massive amount of time at my local dog park, 80 plus acres and a whole lot of unleashed dogs, the majority of which were totally sweet and without aggression. However, every so often a bad one would turn up.

Dogs fight for many reasons. In most cases a dog fight is just that. Ugly, full of noise, someone gets hurt or both get hurt. "Kill fights" are typically different. In a kill fight, in most cases an injury which will end up being fatal happens within the first couple of minutes. In a kill fight, the aggressor tends to go for bellies and throats. Most fights, the aggressor goes for faces, legs.. things that aren't going to kill, but are going to hurt a whole lot. 

Here's what I learned at the dog park and in the Vic attack: 
1) NEVER put verbal energy into a dog fight. IF two dogs are engaged, or even eyeball to eyeball circling each other, absolutely do not yell. That's just like waving the green flag at a race track and saying "GO!". It is the pulling the trigger for a potential fight. When dogs are glaring at each other and walking in circles, there is still a potential for that fight to not happen. This would be a great time for that citronella spray. Move slow, use some calming signals.

2) If a dog is running aggressively toward you, do not grab your dog turn and run in the opposite way. If the aggressive dog has any prey drive at all.. you've just baited him. I have taught the Hug-A-Tree program (A program for children put out by Search and Rescue groups). One of the things we teach them is not to run, to stand firm, act like a tree ("have you ever seen a dog bite a tree?"). If the opportunity arises to leave, then do so carefully, without making your dog a target.

3) The HUGE majority of dog fights are caused by their owners. Dogs who may have a bit of aggression, but would be content showing it by posturing are often triggered by the people present. 

4) If there is a dog around that looks like it could be a problem, leave. If you feel you need to talk with the owner of that dog, remove your dog from the situation first. Don't take your dog into a situation where it is going to feel the need to defend you, don't put your dog into a situation where the other dog perceives a threat to it's owner. Even though YOU know that your dog won't attack and is gentle, the other dog/owner doesn't know that.

5) Do not, please do not..take your dogs out in public in head halters or choke collars. Really. Most larger dogs are capable of holding their own in a fight if need be and most fights are not kill fights. It will end, you can put the pieces back together. Get a dog in a choke collar or a head halter and an attack happens.. if a tooth or leg gets stuck in the wrong place.. you've just changed the outcome from ugliness/noise/injuries that can be fixed to a dead dog or one with a disabling neck injury. 

6) Do not use flexi type leads. I can't think of a single dog behaviorist or dog trainer who uses or recommends them. Flexi leads are so dangerous and have so many negatives to them.. could do a whole thread on them alone. Trust me, put them in the trash, get a sturdy leash with sturdy hardware and use it.

7) One of the things you don't have time or the luxury of doing in a dog fight is jumping into the frey without taking a second to think and make a plan. Dogs are really, really strong. A standard poodle sized dog with adrenaline going is stronger than I am. Choosing to join a dog fight.. may just keep it going longer than what it needs to. I've never personally been in this particular situation, but I know without doubt that if my dogs thought that I was fighting something and needed help, they wouldn't quit. We have all seen photos of people who have been attacked by dogs. In a dog fight, those teeth and toenails (yes, they use them!) are flying so fast, that anyone, anything in proximity is fair game.. that means that your own dog may accidentally bite you and the aggressor dog.. isn't going to think twice about biting you especially if you are in between that dog and your own dog. Stay out of the fight! If you get bitten, most states require legal action towards biting dogs, doesn't matter if the bite was intentional or not. If your own dog bites you.. guess what!?! Don't put yourself in the situation where you could be bitten. Don't put yourself in a situation where your dog has to defend you. If you don't know what your doing, don't have a plan, don't join the fight.. and again, please, please don't yell! It just increases the energy level of the fight.. kind of like cheering to the football team.

8) When in and around other dogs.. check YOUR emotions! A few years ago I was able to spend some time training with Tom Lams. He's an incredible show handler.. the guy the pros go to when they have problems. Really. He's that good. Ok.. so what people who haven't met Tom don't realise, is that he's much more than a handler. Tom is a true "whisperer". He understands dogs, dog body language and has more insight into them than any person I've ever met or learned about. He is incredible. Tom gave some really fascinating demonstrations on how the person on the other end of the leash can "cue" a dog to aggression simply by tensing up a bit and tightening up on the leash. Think about your body language, watch what other people are doing with their dogs, does your approach make THEM nervous? How many times have you "reeled your dog in" to have it close at your side while passing another dog, if you are uncomfortable or tense, do you "reel" it in a bit closer than usual, hold it a bit tighter.. what is telling your dog?? That it's in a dangerous sitatuation! So how does your dog react.. well you may not pick up on it or even be aware of it.. but the dog is immediately more alert (if someone was saying "danger! danger!" to you wouldn't you be? Certain hormones and chemicals are released in their body, it may walk a bit more up on it's toes, it may give the approaching dog a "look".. and that "look".. may just be the necessary trigger for a fight. If you're uncomfortable remove both yourself and your dog from the situation. Think twice about labeling dogs as "aggressive'".. it may not only be the owner/handler of that dog who is the issue, with the dog being the victim, trying to defend it's owner.. BUT.. it could be the owner of the victim dog who actually triggered the whole situation in the first place. Tom demonstrated how calm, lovable, sane, well socialized dogs will go on "alert" or defense mode and learn to do so if everytime a handler passes another dog, they do the "tighten the lead" thing. He also teaches how long term.. it's setting the dog up for problems. Dog didn't have any problems in the first place, the owner/handler does.

Airhorn, Citronella spray (NEVER, NEVER pepperspray), obviously, if you are in close proximity to a water hose, use that water. proper equipment (leash/collar), emotions in check, have a plan for a dog fight (think about how to deal with one before it happens). If a dog attack happens, don't join the fight, don't add energy to it. If you encounter an aggressive dog, and the fight hasn't happened yet, don't be the trigger!

I have not had small dogs, I have no idea how to keep them from being attacked. When I lived in the city, I loved going to the dog park, but I saw some nasty stuff there.

Anyway, thought I'd share some of what I've learned/seen, while I'd hope that no one here is ever in a bad situation, I hope that if you are, there is something that you can use in what I have shared. These aren't idle comments, they are based on experience, learning, observation AND input from the pros.

Darla
Sending Sugarfoot hugs and healing thoughts!


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## Bunny (Jun 14, 2012)

thanks for the informative post.

Your sentence about "reeling" your dog in when other dogs are around hit home with me. I did exactly that this morning on our walk. Some other dogs on leashes walked out of their driveway about a house away from where we were. Cookie wanted to take off, but I immediately shortened her leash (pulled up the slack - I use a 10' leash), called her name and tried to keep her attention on me so she'd ignore them. Once they were out of sight, she did.

Apparently this is the wrong approach -- what is the proper way to keep her from trying to get to the other dogs? I don't believe she (or they) are aggressive to other dogs; I think she just wanted to see/smell them. How am I supposed to keep her from lunging away to go see other dogs? Fortunately, all the folks in my 'hood walk their dogs on leashes (although there's nothing that guarantees dogs can't wander in from the adjacent 'hood).

Also, what's the proper way to let dogs meet each other? I'm a new dog owner.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Hi, Bunny. Good for you noticing that you did something wrong and asking how to correct it.

I have a reactive dog, I have to constantly watch for other dogs. I also have to constantly be engaged with him. Start with the toys and treats distractions before she notices the other dogs. Play Pez dispenser when other dogs show up. She will learn that another dog will bring o the treats or toys, she'll look to you, not them. 

Your dog resally doesn't need to met a lot of other dogs. If there are a few trustworthy dogs that you'd like her to interact with, start slowly on neutral territory. There is no reason for her to have to be friends with everybody. Unless you know the other dogs really well and their owners, don't let her meet them. It only takes a split second of you being distracted or missing a signal to get you or your dog attacked. 

If you really feel like letting her be a social butterfly, find a good puppy socialization class. Before signing up, though, watch a few sessions and see how well the instructor guides and controls the group. If anything feels uncomfortable to you, look somewhere else. Your dog looks to you for her protection, be there for her, but keep yourself safe, too.


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## Bunny (Jun 14, 2012)

I'm going to have to load my pockets with treats I guess! I'm usually speed walking, too, for my own exercise, so I don't like to stop. But we have a chummy 'hood, and people often stop to socialize. I think Cookie just wants to meet everyone; I don't get the impression she's guarding me or wanting to be aggressive...just sniff the heck out of them! LOL

But I still don't like her trying to yank away from me, so I'll keep a better lookout to anticipate distractions and give her a treat when it happens. I guess I should let her actually SEE the dog (or jogger or whatever) and make her direct herself back to me. I don't it's accomplishing anything if she never even sees the distraction....

yesterday, she was all about wanting to dart off after butterflies!

I don't mean to say that I am wanting to give Cookie some big dog social life, but when we're walking and meet up with kids on bikes or someone else walking their dog who wants to stop and chat, how should I expect my dog to behave or what should I do when she's so excited around another dog?


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

Thanks for this thread. 

Yadda's first link, from the Leerburg site, gave a tip that I had actually heard before (possibly from his site, lol): to drag fighting dogs apart by hauling on their back legs (that's the short version; read more details to this method on the page).

Leerburg also has a page specifically addressing the issue of your leashed dog being approached by unleashed dogs: Leerburg | What Would I Do if Attacked by a Dog? He recommends to first try intimidating or startling the strange dog into leaving, then to hit it with a hiking stick, then, if that fails, to use pepper spray. He emphasizes that it's our responsibility to protect our dogs from other dogs (which I failed to do) and that dogs that are attacked will become dog aggressive themselves (my fear, but I hope he's wrong and that some dogs can recover, though I never expect to be able to let Sugar "run and play" with other dogs).

I really enjoyed reading at the site fjm pointed out. LOTS of good, specific tips for dealing with strays while walking; every one of us should read it and memorize it! The site also recommended a product called Direct Stop or Spray Shield, which is a citronella based dog deterrent. Yadda mentions it in her other post, though from what I'm reading it won't stop a really dangerous dog. Lots of good tips about dealing with "DINOS," or Dog In Need Of Space.

In my situation, I know of the mistakes I made. To the extent that hearing of my errors might help someone else, I'll try to list them. 

First of all, I used to *always* walk with a big, sturdy hiking stick. But, over time, I would leave it at home more and more often...and it's a bit of a pain to carry...so then I'd hardly ever bring it....and...then _it_ happened. If I had had my stick, I could have and would have waled the ever loving s*** out of that dog, without the least qualms. I ran outside and attacked a shar-pei which was busy trying to kill my cat one time, so I know I have it in me! (The cat lived, btw, just very shaken up.) This makes me think of "always" locking your door, but then your house doesn't get broken into for years and years, so you stop locking your door...and naturally the "one time" you don't lock your door, that's when you get burglarized! If you're going to carry these things, carry them every time!

Second, I deprived myself of an opportunity to stop the attack before it started by not being aware enough of my surroundings. I must have been looking down at or working with Sugarfoot, because I literally didn't see the dog coming until it had rounded the corner and was almost on me. I didn't have a chance to even try some of the strategies like yelling a firm NO, GO HOME! Or anything like that.

Third, I panicked. And I screamed! My screams might have brought help, but I'm sure they also incited the dog and frightened Sugarfoot. But I think I panicked *because* I realized how very helpless I was. I had nothing and no way to fend off this dog. I would like to think that if I *had* brought my hiking stick with me, I might not have freaked out so much, because I would have had something to *do* to protect us. 

I am certainly a big believer in the use of one's emotions to temper a situation, as described in point 8 of yadda's second post. Going forward, I'm going to do my best to keep this calm and not choke up on the leash and stuff, to help Sugar deal with the aftermath of this.

Great information! Thanks for everyone's contributions!

--Q


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

Quossum,
Im curious as to what kind of stick you whacked the shar-pei with.. A "trekking pole" or a wooden staff? I would have guessed that a trekking pole would be likely to break when used like a club.


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

It was a wooden staff. I have several, but it so happens that I have a picture of me with that very staff.










I also have trekking poles, which I almost always carry when Geocaching. The trekking pole has the advantage of being very light, and its metal tip could possibly give a nasty poke to a dog, but the heavy wooden staff has weight and reach on its side.

I intend to start carrying one on walks again. 

--Q


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

OMG I have a walking stick that looks just like that! Must be made from the same kind of tree. I have trekking poles too. I guess its a matter of preference which to carry, since they are used differently. Which would you have rather had on the day of the pit bull attack?

Thanks for posting that. Great pic BTW. :smile:


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

Mmm...good question. I think the wooden staff. If I'd had my wits about me (and when I replay this incident in my head, with modifications!), I would have dropped and stood upon Sugar's leash (ideally giving him a swift down command; he is obedient but I wouldn't bet his life on being perfect in that sort of situation), gotten the staff firmly in both hands, and raised it over my head threateningly with a roar. That alone just might have startled or kept the dog away long enough for its chasing owners to get it. If it had kept coming, I would have struck it. Repeatedly.

It only took my coming at it with a Ripley-at-the-end-of-_Aliens_-style roar ("Get away from him YOU B*****!"), and a single swing downwards to send that aggressive, frequently loose shar-pei turning tail and running for the hills, leaving my poor cat alone. Poor little guy. He had been an indoor/outdoor cat his entire life, but that was the incident that marked the time had come that he wasn't up to that life any more. He was indoors only the rest of his life. 

--Q


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Bunny, I expct my dogs to sit quietly for 'meets.' I don't care to let a bunch of strangers grab at or pet my dogs (you never really know what they might do). I don't allow contact with other dogs because that can go bad so fast.

Quossum, I carry a metal cane (I have a bad hip) that works fairly well for threats. I love the walking staff, though!


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