# Very Concerning



## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

Ugh, that sounds awful. Try calling local animal control and see what they can do/suggest.

As to being terrified about buying from a place unseen, can you ask your breeder if they can give you a local puppy buyers email/phone number, and you can contact them and ask them what they thought of the breeder's home?


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## kayfabulous6 (Nov 19, 2013)

Yes that is VERY concerning. Though I am very sorry the breeder turned out to be unfavorable I am very glad that you discovered this place was unfit. I agree, call animal control ASAP and demand that someone be sent out to investigate. I just hope that the AC dept near you is more helpful than the one in my town.. Ours is a joke. 

Let us know if you're able to get thru to them.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

_Ugh! _Hard to bear witness to something like that. Thanks for wanting to see it addressed. Your local Animal Control Officer would be a good starting point, I think. Also, you might take a look here to see alternatives for reporting your concerns. https://www.animallaw.info/topic/table-reporting-animal-cruelty-united-states

As for trusting in a breeder whose premises and dogs you are unable to visit, that for me would be a toughie. I might contact the local/closest PCA Poodle Club in her area and inquire about her, perhaps also the PCA Breeder Referral contact, as well as ask her for references from buyers willing to speak with you. Can she Skype (or otherwise video chat) so that you get to see real time images of her place and poodles?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

You can also call the local SPCA. We had pit bulls on the other side of our fence that were inadequately sheltered, etc. Even though one of the dogs had charged at Lily and also tried to dig under my fence, I called (along with several other people) and an SPCA enforcement officer (think cop uniform and car, gun, the works) showed up and spent about an hour looking the place over and made recommendations that were followed up on. Even though I didn't like the dogs I was happy to see their husbandry improve.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Raysoflite said:


> Also, now I'm terrified to buy a poodle from anyone. My breeder is in Nevada and I'm in Chicago. I somewhat trust the breeder simply because she has all the credentials and merit of a good breeder, but now I'm completely freaked out!


I have heard far too many stories about breeders with too many dogs who are pumping out pets for the pet market and not giving the breeding dogs the care, comfort and love that they deserve. The two saddest poodles I ever met belonged to breeders -- the look in their eyes just broke my heart. I would never buy from a breeder without first meeting the breeder, seeing where the dogs live, seeing where the puppies will be raised, asking a lot of questions about how they will be raised and meeting the mother dog. 

If I were you, I would get on a plane and go to Nevada. Having just had a litter of puppies in my own home, I am more certain than ever that the temperament of the mother and the support and care that she receives plays a big role in how the puppies turn out. When you visit the breeder, you should see a strong attachment between the momma dog and the breeder. You should be totally convinced that the breeder will do the right thing for her momma dog, giving her all the support she needs to raise her babies. You should spend enough time with the momma dog to be sure that she is the kind of dog that you would like to own. To raise a litter of happy confident puppies, she should have a solid, confident temperament and she should be a happy dog who enjoys plenty of support from her humans.

Making sure that breeding dogs are happy dogs who receive all of the care that they need is important because we need to stand against the kind of animal abuse that you describe. It is also important because happy secure mommas do a better job of raising happy secure puppies than a fearful, neglected, kennel momma ever could. 

My 2 cents.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I could give you a list of many people who have been in my home (some who stayed overnight or for a number of days) who would be delighted to tell you the condition of my dogs and my home. So I do not believe it is necessary to visit a breeder. I have bought three dogs from overseas and it was impossible to visit. If it is feasible, it is best, but otherwise easy enough to confirm what you are being told.

In this case I would contact the area's township and ask their opinion on who best to call about your concerns. If they cannot help you, find a rescue in your area and seek their help. You have every right to be concerned! 

Skype or Google Hangouts allows you to walk a potential client through your home in real time. You can visit the whelping box, meet the adult dogs, tour the property. I'd have no issue with that and have done it in the past. Ask a breeder you may be interested in. If they will not comply, that is a red flag.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

peppersb said:


> I have heard far too many stories about breeders with too many dogs who are pumping out pets for the pet market and not giving the breeding dogs the care, comfort and love that they deserve. The two saddest poodles I ever met belonged to breeders -- the look in their eyes just broke my heart. I would never buy from a breeder without first meeting the breeder, seeing where the dogs live, seeing where the puppies will be raised, asking a lot of questions about how they will be raised and meeting the mother dog.
> 
> If I were you, I would get on a plane and go to Nevada. Having just had a litter of puppies in my own home, I am more certain than ever that the temperament of the mother and the support and care that she receives plays a big role in how the puppies turn out. When you visit the breeder, you should see a strong attachment between the momma dog and the breeder. You should be totally convinced that the breeder will do the right thing for her momma dog, giving her all the support she needs to raise her babies. You should spend enough time with the momma dog to be sure that she is the kind of dog that you would like to own. To raise a litter of happy confident puppies, she should have a solid, confident temperament and she should be a happy dog who enjoys plenty of support from her humans.
> 
> ...



While I totally agree with everyone about getting a dog from a responsible breeder to ensure the health of the dog you are buying, I am not sure I fully buy into the temperament coming from the parents. I think it is also the entire nature/ nurture debate
.
We brought Zoe home at 8 weeks and she came from a BYB. She has the most loving personality . She loves to cuddle , but also loves to play endlessly. I could not have picked out a better temperament , the perfect dog.

I truly believe it's because all she has known since 8 weeks is attention and love. Her parents could have been shy or ill tempered , who knows. I believe her environment plays a lot into her personality and the dog she grew into.
If she came from perfect parents and we gave her zero attention and a place she could not thrive she would be a totally different dog.
Not saying parents do not pass down to dog certain characteristics that play a role in their personality, just not the entire picture.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

While there is probably a genetic component to temperament, if a nuturing environment did not make a difference, then there would not be as many successful rehomes for rescued dogs. We all want a good beginning for our dogs, but dogs can be more flexible than we realize. That being said, it sometimes take a lot of work if you get a puppy with a bad start in life, sometimes more work than the average dog owner wants to give. So pick a breeder you feel is a good one for your own sake.

As far as long distance, here is what I have personally observed:

I want a breeder that is computer savvy so that it will be easy to keep in touch. So I will not buy from a breeder that does not respond to my email inquiries in a timely fashion. I will not buy from a breeder without a web site. I want pictures and if on Facebook, I want videos of their dogs interacting with each other and people. That reassures me that the breeder is proud of their dogs and actually loves them.

With the breeder of my young PWD, I email her pictures of the dogs and she includes them on her website. I text her with updates on my dog and she responds. I feel very close to this breeder. Yet we did not meet before we picked up.our dog. I watched videos of my pup and got pictures emailed to me before I made my decision to buy her. They almst did not sell her to us because they loved her so much.

These are my experience. If you can set up a good relationship via the Internet, if the breeder does health testing and says they want the puppy back if it needs to be rehomed for some reason, these are a sign that this is a breeder you can trust.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Report this breeder to everyone who will listen to you. Police in most places in our world will listen when not too busy. They will point you to the right organisation in your area. Even if she is not closed down, she will have to raise her standard or risk closure and fines.
Eric.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Lots of interesting perspectives on how to pick a dog. Thanks for sharing.

Arreau -- I know that you sell to people who have never been to your house, and my impression is that those people are getting fabulous, health-tested, well-raised puppies from a breeder who really cares, and who has a reasonable number of dogs that all receive plenty of human love and attention. The methods that you mention of investigating a breeder are great ideas and certainly a lot cheaper than flying out to see a breeder. 

But I think buyers need to be very careful. There are lots of breeders out there churning out puppies for the puppy market and they can certainly produce nice web sites.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I am so sorry you had to witness this. It must be very upsetting. On the other hand, by your witnessing this atrocity to innocent animals, you're in a position to try and do something about it. Kudos for looking into it. I'd do what was suggested...animal control, the Poodle Club of America maybe? Police, the newspaper opinion page...like Eric said, anyone who will listen. It may take a lot of contacting and perseverance because it's not easy to arrest someone for animal abuse or neglect. But stay on it. Something must be done for these poor dogs. 

I prefer to see the place where I'm getting a dog from. Either that or have some references that are verifiably legit and trustworthy. Often, Poodle Clubs have people who know people and that's one place to start in your search in an area. 

You can also look online and do a search such as "how to find a reputable breeder." Something like that....

Good luck and good for you for caring enough about these sad little souls who have no say so in their living situation.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I too would immediately call Animal Control AND the SPCA! Animal control will usually make sure the dogs are cared for......meaning food and shelter but the SPCA is the one who will address care and cruelty matters. Unless this woman has a kennel she is probably over the limit in the amount of dogs she has and if they do confiscate, I would certainly advise PCA Rescue to try and get them!!!


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

peppersb said:


> Lots of interesting perspectives on how to pick a dog. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Arreau -- I know that you sell to people who have never been to your house, and my impression is that those people are getting fabulous, health-tested, well-raised puppies from a breeder who really cares, and who has a reasonable number of dogs that all receive plenty of human love and attention. The methods that you mention of investigating a breeder are great ideas and certainly a lot cheaper than flying out to see a breeder.
> 
> But I think buyers need to be very careful. There are lots of breeders out there churning out puppies for the puppy market and they can certainly produce nice web sites.


I agree that a website alone is not enough. It is just a very good communication tool. I actually knew someone who had gotten puppies from the breeder I used. So look for references from other buyers as well.


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## Raysoflite (Dec 17, 2014)

Thank you, everyone, for your thoughtful replies. You had great suggestions and I appreciate you taking the time to share them with me! I will keep you updated as to what happens with this facility.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

]I went to a breeders home/kennel last night to look at puppies. I wasn't interested in buying one as I'm currently working with another breeder, but I wanted to see the size of a Toy poodle in person. I couldn't believe what I saw. There were so many dogs. She had 8 puppies from several different litters all around the same age. The dogs were filthy, windows covered, the pups were in complete darkness before we arrived. She also had another room which she wouldn't let us look in. I could hear music blasting and lots of dogs barking. She went in there when we heard a loud yelp, and again those dogs were in complete darkness. She brought one adult Toy poodle out after I was pushing to see the mother. It broke my heart. She was filthy and shaking horribly. Needless to say, I was sick over the whole thing. In addition, the puppies were are terrified of people. I've never experienced being around a puppy who was only 8 weeks old and want nothing to do with humans. They wouldn't come near us even when I sat on the floor.

Here is my question: I feel a responsibility to those beautiful dogs. Who could I call about the conditions? Who has the power to shut them down?

Also, now I'm terrified to buy a poodle from anyone. My breeder is in Nevada and I'm in Chicago. I somewhat trust the breeder simply because she has all the credentials and merit of a good breeder, but now I'm completely freaked out![/QUOTE]


Reply I did some thingwrong this is Bella today


6 years ago I got Bells went to Charleston W. VA. Had spoken to breeder she sent photos. She said she was sick and her daughter who wanted to breed toy poodles was boy crazy and want not looking after the dogs. I wanted a poodle form 8 months to 2years, I did not want a pup, as I have had the luck of raining them quicker. 
Met at a Cracker Barrel, the woman was over 300, the girl gets out she is Gauth, everything black, then I saw Bella awful, just awful, knotted sticky and I look and there is another one there black same condition. They weighted about 5lbs each. She wanted $400.00. We got into it in the parking lot, I said I will give you 200.00 per dog and am take both, or I call the police, as I have your tag number. I had 3 girlfriends with me. They thought I was crazy and said I had made a mistake, but I could not leave them behind. That was 5 years ago.
I took them to the hotel, bathed them (no combing) awful, just awful. When I got home the groomer had to shave them all the way down, looked like Toco Bell dogs with floppy ears. $2500.00 at the vets ( now I have 2 toys at home one was getting old and I wanted another when something happened to her). For 5 months I had 4 poodles, found a great home for Jasmine (black) kept Bella. Now for 3 years I had 3, as Tina the one the vet said was not going to live long lived for 3 more years.
I contact ASPC, the Humane Society, AKC, CCK (she was a member) sent letters and photos of the dogs before I had them groomed and after.
Both dogs were skittish, but Bella has turned out to be an outstanding dog, still shy, and skittish, but so easy to train, not the healthiest dog and I doubt I have her as long as my others from 15 to 19 years.


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