# Chronic Ear Problems, Vet Turned Her Down



## Lizajane (Feb 27, 2013)

I need help and advice, please. I have a four year old standard poodle named Lily. She has had ear problems on and off ever since I've had her, since 4 months. This past year she had had four infections; have taken her to the vet every time, put her on meds, each time a different one, changed her diet, pluck don't pluck, now her last treatment didn't work and both ears are oozing yellow discharge and she yelps out. The vet told me he didn't know what else to do, he's tried everything. I've called them again today and they said they could try laser therapy?? Has anyone ever heard of such for ear infections?


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I don't know about laser but my question is...has Lily been tested for systemic yeast infection? Yeast is a common cause of ear infections and can become systemic.....Google 'yeast infections in dogs' she may have such an over growth in her body that she needs to be treated.
Many dogs are treated as if they have allergies but sometimes it just isn't enough to knock out the overgrowth and need to be put on a yeast free diet in addition to the treatments & drugs.


P.S. Look up Dr. Karen Becker's video on YouTube "Yeast infection in dogs"


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## Lizajane (Feb 27, 2013)

She's been tested at every visit, some were positive for yeast, some were positive for bacteria, some were positive for yeast and bacteria at the same time. He also changed her food about four months ago to Natural Balance buffalo and sweet potato. They've called back and said she needs to go to an allergy specialists, I asked for a recommendation and they said they would have to call me back...

It seems to get better as she takes the medication but once she through her symptoms are back again in less than a week. I'm thinking maybe she hasn't been on them long enough and maybe should treat both ears at the same time instead of one then the other. And the type of medication, oral or topical, which is better, I don't know anymore but I know that there's got to be something that works.

A friend's dog goes to the same vet and her dog had a gum infection and he stayed on meds for five weeks.


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## sidewinder (Feb 3, 2016)

One thing you can do to help is to clip off all the hair on the INSIDE of her ear leather. You can leave the long feathers on the outside of the leather, but keep the inside shaved off very short (10 blade at least), especially right over the ear canal. One of the reasons they get ear infections is lack of air circulation. My old spoo would get infected in one ear, not the other. Her ear on the "bad" side just seemed to hang closer to her head. Once I made sure the air could get to it, she never had any more trouble. 

You can even pin their ears to the top of their head temporarily to expose the ear canal. I'd keep the ears plucked, but be sure to disinfect after you pluck...I always used listerine or proprietry ear cleaner. It doesn't sting like alcohol. I'll do alot to avoid using antibiotics, but sometimes you just have to.

I had a coonhound for many years who had the same problem. One ear folded a little differently than the other and covered the ear canal more closely. I would actually flip her ears up and tape them to the top of her head for a couple of weeks at a time. I had a solution of mineral oil and an acid (citric? I think...it was 30 years ago) that I put in there...cleared it right up.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Sweet potatoes are full of sugar....sugar=yeast! Yeast free diets have no grain or carbs/starches at all.......DO goggle yeast free diet!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Is there a veterinary dermatologist in your area? When none of the treatments that the regular vet was doing worked, I found a vet dermatologist who had a formula compounded specifically for my dog, and worked like magic. She was a highly allergic dog and the infections would come back a couple of times a year, but the magic formula always worked, within hours of the first dose she would be 90 percent better. The vet derm costs more in the shorterm, but well worth the long term savings!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Make sure that if there are yeast that the appropriate drug is being given. Generally things that work for bacteria don't work for yeast and the reverse is also true. sidewinder's comments about air circulation make tons of sense too. I would also go to an allergist or other appropriate specialist. Do you live near a vet school (or at least near enough to make a special trip)?


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I am a big fan of veterinary dermatologists. They get to the root of the problem quickly, have all the best ointments, drops, food and shampoo recommendations. I know once you go you will wish your vet had referred you five visits ago.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Mfmst said:


> I am a big fan of veterinary dermatologists. They get to the root of the problem quickly, have all the best ointments, drops, food and shampoo recommendations. I know once you go you will wish your vet had referred you five visits ago.



They do lots of compounding and draw a lot from human medicine - things that the regular Vet just can't do.


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

DISCLAIMER: I am not a vet, but this is what I have had much success with for ear infections:

I would start by putting her immediately on Fromm Lamb and Lentil. In the meantime, I'd order a Nutriscan test from Dr. Dodds (google that). I would also order Wonder Ear from Chantilly Kennels (google that) and Oxyfresh Pet ear cleaner (google that). Don't follow Chantilly kennel's ear cleaning advice because the wintergreen alcohol will burn, and you don't want that. 

Stop plucking! When you pull ear hair, you leave angry pores. Angry, inflamed pores are susceptible to bacteria and fungal infection. But don't be afraid to get down into the ear canal with a cotton ball and wipe around until the cotton ball is clean. Trim the ear hair instead level with the ear opening. 

Once the ears are cleaned and dried, poof some wonder ear powder in her ear and leave them alone for 2-3 days, then repeat the cleaning process, poof in more powder and the ears *should* be better. Then clean/powder weekly thereafter. 

If they are still bad, get the nutriscan results and adjust her food accordingly. 

Anecdotally, every time I try some other food, even the Limited Ingredient Diets by Natural Balance, the dogs end up with ear infections or yeasty feet or itchy skin. Put them on Fromm, and all that stops! I can only guess it's quality of ingredients OR the fact that Fromm uses a different vitamin/mineral premix than the rest of the dog food companies. 

It's worth a try. Also no other treats other than what Fromm makes! Or baby carrots, apple slices and similar.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

We also use Wonder Ear, recommended by my breeder.


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

Lizajane said:


> He also changed her food about four months ago to Natural Balance buffalo and sweet potato.


Like I said I tried Natural Balance with my allergy dogs and RAGING ear infections, red, oozing yeasty feet. Same with Taste of the Wild, PetGUard, Precise, California Natural, etc. 

Seriously. Get Fromm Lamb/Lentil. chewy.com ships right to your door, the prices are great and free shipping after $49. 

Try the wonder ear and the food change, give it a few weeks for her body to heal, and go from there.


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## Lizajane (Feb 27, 2013)

Shamrockmommy: will it not damage her ears to go that long without some kind of treatment? I've just heard and read so much about dogs losing their hearing if infections are chronic.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Lizajane said:


> Shamrockmommy: will it not damage her ears to go that long without some kind of treatment? I've just heard and read so much about dogs losing their hearing if infections are chronic.



Yes, get her to a vet who can treat the current infection first, then worry about preventing future infections!


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

It might. Agree to try another vet, but I would also do a Nutriscan ASAP http://www.nutriscan.org in conjunction with a different vet visit.


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## West U (Jul 30, 2014)

One of our Beagles had chronic ear infections. At one point she had some kind of staph infection. Nothing worked, I agree with one of the posts above, we ended up taping her ears up so that the ear leather was up allowing air circulation. It would go away, then after we'd let her ears down, it would start up again. We taped her ears because of course she didn't have long hair and we could not use a band to keep them up.


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

I've had a vet use laser on an ear infection. Several years ago, Max had an ear infection that was very resistant to treatment. It was the only one he had ever had, but it wouldn't go away. Positive for yeast and bacteria. He also grew a very strange wart on the bottom of his foot at the same time that was so large it splayed his toes and he couldn't put weight on his foot. All this occurred after he got a "booster" parvovirus/ distemper at age two. I know better than that now. Also occurred after his ears got plucked for the first time at a groomer- that also we have never done again.

Anyways, my vet suggested I see a holistic vet, as nothing was working. One of the things she did was laser therapy in both the ear and foot, in addition to keeping him on antibiotics and anti fungals. She also started a lot of Chinese herbs, did a nutritional analysis, and told me not to feed him any of prepared kibble, as the regulations allow for so many substitutions that don't have to be listed on the label. That's when I started home cooking so I could control what he got. 

Not sure what worked, but the wart disappeared and the ear infection cleared up- both never to return. That was my only experience- but it was a doozy! None of my other dogs have had ear infections. Just recently, I've re- integrated some kibble as we will be doing a lot of traveling in an RV and I need a food that is readily available. So far so good. It probably was a variety of factors that caused all of that- sort of a perfect storm.

I wouldn't use Listerine to rinse with- it has alcohol in it. 

Good luck- I would definitely seek the opinion of a different clinician. The standard treatments aren't working- time to try something else.


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## sidewinder (Feb 3, 2016)

So many good ideas here! Different dogs sometimes require different solutions.

Let me start by saying that it is not necessary to traumatize the dog's ear in order to pluck the ear hair! I have seen groomers who grasp the entire bunch of hair protruding from the ear in their hemostats, twist it and pull the whole thing out at once. OUCH! This is not the way to do it..it's fast, not good! If you take just 3 or 4 hairs at a time, and gently pull them out, being careful to get the ones that come from the deepest part of the ear canal, it does not hurt and it does not cause trauma to the skin down there! Then, pour a little ear cleaner in the ear, let the dog shake it out and mop it up with a cotton ball.

I LIKE listerine. The original formula, with ALCOHOL. Alcohol will kill germs and disinfect the inner ear, preventing an infection. Listerine doesn't sting like denatured alcohol would, but still disinfects. I figure that if it's safe for the inside of a human's mouth, it's ok for a dog's ear. Ear cleaner formulated for dogs is good, too.

It's interesting that pulling ear hair seems to be a controversial subject now...when I was grooming, there were certain breeds (including poodles, especially Standards) that you ALWAYS pulled ear hair to prevent infections. Some dogs have ear hair that is so thick (like my spoo) that the air cannot get inside the ear canal and keep it dried out. Moisture causes infection, either bacterial or yeast. 

Perhaps some dogs don't require it, and my opinion is that if it ain't broke don't fix it! I don't put in ear cleaner (or listerine) or pull ear hair in my Scotties unless there's a problem. I have had a few that needed it. We shall see what I decide to do with my new Spoo puppy.


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

sidewinder said:


> So many good ideas here! Different dogs sometimes require different solutions.
> 
> Let me start by saying that it is not necessary to traumatize the dog's ear in order to pluck the ear hair! I have seen groomers who grasp the entire bunch of hair protruding from the ear in their hemostats, twist it and pull the whole thing out at once. OUCH! This is not the way to do it..it's fast, not good! If you take just 3 or 4 hairs at a time, and gently pull them out, being careful to get the ones that come from the deepest part of the ear canal, it does not hurt and it does not cause trauma to the skin down there! Then, pour a little ear cleaner in the ear, let the dog shake it out and mop it up with a cotton ball.
> 
> ...


Yes different dogs need different approaches!

The alcohol in Listerine is denatured alcohol. That's not necessarily bad, especially for intact skin in healthy adults, but it is expressively contraindicated for people with compromised mucous membranes in the mouth. That's why I would be wary of using it in a dog who may not have intact skin, such as the OP's dog who has endured many years of suffering from ear infections. 
But a dog with a healthy ear canal- just as a human with a healthy mouth- probably just fine!


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## West U (Jul 30, 2014)

You are so correct!. My poodle does not need her ears plucked, thank gosh. You do not and should not need to traumatized the ear. Lola had a very painful nasty experience with the wrong approach. I cannot imagine plucking sore ears, unless the dog has some kind of mild sedation.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

My poodles have never had ear infections but my old pit bull did...she had allergies to grass and dust. We learned to keep her off the grass and to clean the house really well to keep her reaction to dust down. Whenever she had a flare-up her ears and anal glands got full and she got itchy and smelled...I can still remember that smell just writing this! I support the allergy testing for sure...maybe your poodle is flaring in reaction to something you could easily just avoid. In the meantime, i surely would switch to Fromm as it has had such good results with other allergy-sufferers.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

You can make your own ear cleaner with 4oz water, 2oz vodka, 2oz of Apple cider vinegar, 2T boric acid, 2 droppers full of colloidal silver. After the ears dry, (next day) put some miracle ear powder in and repeat every few days. 
I would change food to California Natural Kangaroo and beans. No treats. I would shave the ears short so that they are not heavy and air can get in. Stop plucking. Good Luck


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Carolinek, regarding this part of your earlier post "The alcohol in Listerine is denatured alcohol." There are other alcohols like eucalyptol, menthol, and thymol in Listerine there certainly can't be methanol. That is what I think of when I think of denatured alcohol, ethanol with methanol added. I'm sorry I was so slow to raise this issue. It has been on my brain's back burner for a couple of days.


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## sidewinder (Feb 3, 2016)

Ha. I posted the message about using listerine in the ears, but I haven't used it for that in a long time...the Scotties don't need it. I don't believe in putting stuff in their ears that kills the bacteria if they are not having a problem, throws off the balance. 

Anyway...I remembered that I don't really use Listerine (brand name) anymore. I have a mouthwash from Kroger that has a similar shape bottle and similar label colors. The stuff is amber like Listerine. And it lists Eucalyptol and Menthol. Perhaps there's another alcohol in there, but I like it because it doesn't sting the dog. Alcohol is a good disinfectant. I have used it to disinfect the inside of crates as well.

I love the ear cleaner recipe with the Vodka! It really looks good...gonna try it if I need it when my spoo arrives.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

Hans had some repeat ear infections and icky ears until we started feeding Ziwipeak. Now, I don't even clean them as often as I should and they are never even the slightest bit dirty. He was being fed grain free foods before but they had potatoes. I really don't think the potatoes agreed with him because he had bad dandruff, icky ears, and kind of a lousy appetite (we thought he was just picky, but he eats like a horse now).

I just wish I could find a viable alternative to ziwipeak, because feeding it to a spoo is kind of pricey. I'm afraid to try anything new though since he's eating so well.


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## sidewinder (Feb 3, 2016)

I found this about Wonder Ear.
PSG Remedy Archive


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## Luce (Mar 4, 2013)

Have you tried adding some probiotics to her diet? You can do it with live culture yogurt and there are also tablets you can get. If she is on antibiotics the "good" bacteria is killed also, leaves a void for more yeast to grow. The same thing happens with people. The symptom may be manifesting in the ears, but the problem could be in the gut.

Good luck, I hope you find some relief for her.


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## Lizajane (Feb 27, 2013)

Well, I waited almost a week to call me back with a referral, he didn't so I called our state university here and made an appointment for a week out, March 16th. That's not so far out now, but last week it seemed a long time without anything. In the meantime they said for my vet to call them so they could consult over the phone and figure out something to give her while I'm waiting to bring her in. Never got a call from my vet, went by there this Tuesday and he said that he wasn't going to give her anything because it would mess up the tests. So, okay, well she's whining all day and night from the pain, so he gives her Tramadol and in the meantime wash her ears with water and betadine? I call the university back and they said they couldn't give her anything without seeing her first that they vet could call them. Am I expecting too much from my vet because I'm beginning to think I need to find another one.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

You absolutely need a new vet!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

MiniPoo said:


> You absolutely need a new vet!



Agreed!
Meanwhile, does the University have an emergency clinic? I would bring her in there - tell them you have an appointment with the derm, but couldn't wait. I bet the interns will call and consult with the derm, and that way treatment will be begun right away!


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## Lizajane (Feb 27, 2013)

I thought about that yesterday because I was so frustrated, thank you. I hate having to find another vet, this one has such a good reputation..


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

new vet? Absolutely!!

Emergency vet right away? Absolutely!!

How awful and terribly frustrating for you all. Can not imagine a dog being in that much discomfort and an existing vet unwilling to try something different.

Best wishes and prayers for a quick resolution.



VQ

Here is a very helpful link from VIP website(versatility in poodles). Lots of good info and a recipe for Purple Ear Wash. A highly effective, old tried and true remedy....used on lots of dogs where other things did not work. My vet recommends it. I have used it on a previous dog with great results. It is extremely messy, but who cares, if it works. Just passing this along. http://vipoodle.org/PDF_Files/ThePoodleEar.pdf


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

With whom? He should have been working in concert with the vet school, so your dog's discomfort could be alleviated until she can be seen. I am so sorry she is suffering. Thinking of you both.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Your "vet" has been Tardy difficult and recalcitrant. He has not honored his promise's to you and has not followed up his treatment. Further he has not had any compassion for you or your dog. Make sure to tell your "old vet" this and why you will be leaving and telling others through this forum and other why you left. It may make no difference but it could save some other animal this kind of trauma. A business that has an abundance of clients can lose the concept of client care. Moneys will come in regardless.
Eric.


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## Marta Elmer (Sep 29, 2012)

So sorry you have such a problem, and your Lily must be nervous because of all that itching and maybe even pain. 

My moyen poodle had the same issue when he was younger, and the first time his ears got inflamed, our vet insisted on the following: 

- express his annal gland - she said it is directly related, especially when there is yeast in the ears;
- change his food - the vet doubted Zorba could have been allergic on some kind of proteins rather than grain. So, for some time we avoided chicken and gave him food based mainly on lamb;

- add two table spoons of yogurt into his food every day.

Zorba is three and a half now, and since he turned one and a half, we have had no problems any more. 

I am not saying that there is no other way out, but this is my experience. When I got Woodstock half a year ago, the vet noticed that his left ear has more cerumen than the other one, and suggested I cleaned it regularly with cotton pad. I also add yogurt to his food, and he has no problems. 

Hope you find solution soon.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Lizajane said:


> I thought about that yesterday because I was so frustrated, thank you. I hate having to find another vet, this one has such a good reputation..


My forever vet retired several years ago, and before I got Oliver. So I was at loose ends. Went to a vet clinic that is extremely super high-rated on yelp. My poor Toy Poodle was roughly manhandled by the vet and the hospital insists on annual vaccinations (DHPP) for clients' pets. Yeah, we had one single appointment there!

I got a referral from a knowledgeable Poodle person to another vet who was gentle and loving with Oliver. Turns out that place is highly rated on yelp, too, but this time for good reason.

Agree with the others you need a new vet and hope one is on board already. Bless your poor worried heart and your poor hurting Poodle's too. Hoping for a resolution and soon.


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## Lotusland spoos (May 10, 2010)

Try this:
Liquid Health K-9 Ear Solutions -- 12 fl oz - Vitacost

I found this on Amazon a few years ago. It is your purple ear wash with the addition of colloidal silver. There were hundreds of reviews and rated like 4.8 stars. Everyone that I've told who used it or the purple ear wash swears by it. It solved my spoos chronic ear infections. The vet was useless. You've got nothing to lose trying it.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Lotusland spoos said:


> Try this:
> Liquid Health K-9 Ear Solutions -- 12 fl oz - Vitacost
> 
> I found this on Amazon a few years ago. It is your purple ear wash with the addition of colloidal silver. There were hundreds of reviews and rated like 4.8 stars. Everyone that I've told who used it or the purple ear wash swears by it. It solved my spoos chronic ear infections. The vet was useless. You've got nothing to lose trying it.


Geeze, I don't know why I didn't think of this product! You are right...it really works like a charm. We sold TONS of this at the store where I worked. This product worked when nothing else did.

Viking Queen


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I'm sorry you're having this terrible difficulty. I believe that this over growth of yeast and subsequent infection...sometimes secondary bacterial infections are involved...is on account of the immune system not functioning properly. There are many things that wreak havoc on the immune system, in my opinion vaccines can be one culprit, although sometimes a necessary evil. Other things that prevent the immune system from functioning properly may be environmental toxins and things that we all come into contact with. Additionally, when dogs have to work very hard at processing and digesting food that they're not designed to eat, that puts a strain on their bodies. Although a natural diet for dogs is probably not the total answer and may not cure anything, I do believe that giving a dog fresh food that he's designed to eat will make it easier for his immune system to work on other things and not spent trying to deal with getting something out of his food. 

For probiotics, nothing is better than raw green tripe imo. That stuff is a miracle of raw food. A raw food diet is not that hard to do once you get onto it. There's a forum I can pm you if you pm me and are interested...one that can reeeeeelly be of help.

Again, I don't know that a raw food diet will cure ear infections. That may be a stretch. But I do think it can give a dog a healthier immune system because it's very nutritious and the essential nutrients are usable to him. Once a dog has had an immune system assault from a variety of life's encounters, the bottom line for me is to get to the root of the problem...healing the immune system...giving it the best chance at working properly. Medicines are often of help. But you're just going over the top of the problem. I'd work in conjunction with medicines but also try to get your dog's immune system to function better so it can do it's job of keeping things in balance.

I agree...no grains, no starch, no carbohydrates...no fruits or vegetables. It's all sugar. Dogs don't need carbohydrates and don't metabolize them. 

I wouldn't put anything in your dog's ear like alcohol. I wouldn't put anything in the ears without a vet's approval. I do hope things will improve soon. It sounds just miserable. My raw fed dogs have their ears semi-shaved... short on the under side and the top of the leather. I haven't had them plucked for a long time but use to and probably will again. I don't like the big wads of hair in there. But they've never had an infection so far, knock on wood. I believe that plucking when there are bacteria around can cause an infection. But if the ears are clean and plucked, I do not believe that those minute ouchies will bring on infection. If yeast is going to over-grow, then it's going to over-grow and tiny wounds to the ears from plucking aren't likely going to make any difference. But may if bacteria are present...dirty ears. Ears need to be kept clean but I wouldn't advise alcohol or peroxide. It damages epithelial cells that are trying to re-build when damaged. Anyhow, good luck with the next vet. It does sound like you need to move onto a new vet.


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