# regurgitating water....



## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

i'm at my wits end. :at-wits-end: jessie has such awful stomach problems i want to pull my hair out. we drove back from maryland today (4 hours in the car) and she has regurgitated water at least 4 times since we are home (3 hours ??) down in maryland she regurgitated water at least 4 times in the 4 days. other than that, she's fine. she has several poodle friends down there and she played with them, we went to the park, she ran around my friend's yard. she ate ok - she's a very picky eater - but she ate what she wanted to eat and ate her regular food cause i sat there with her. she use to get very bad carsickness but she really doesn't get that now - she maybe "burp" up some water, but that's about it. my vet said when she's got that going on, give her a 10mg pepcid. in the last 4 days i've given her pepcid at least 3 (maybe 4) times thinking the "burping" up water was like a reflux? sour stomach?? nervous stomach?? :banghead: 

she is (i think) unnaturally attached to me and gets nervous when she sees us packing our suitcases, until she realizes she's going with us. and i don't mean nervous outwardly, so i'm thinking her anxiety is being kept in and this is effecting her stomach. i didn't even feed her tonight - thought maybe best to let her stomach settle?? :noidea: 

i am thinking about taking her to a holistic vet and try to get to the bottom of this. she came to me with stomach problems - poor 10 week old puppy, so withdrawn when she arrived. she had vomited in her kennel, vomited on the way home from the airport, and then had bloody diarrhea all night her first night with us. for this reason, i had her tacted when she was spayed. 

so my question is: anyone ever go through this or do i have the only spoo in the world with this degree of stomach problems? btw, regarding her food, i was feeding her evo 95% chicken/turkey with probiotic powder and vitamin oil, with a little broiled chicken added to it. she was doing pretty good for quite awhile on this food. sometimes i would add liver, or organ meet, or boiled beef, etc. she ate raw marrow ones for treats and some limited ingredient treats at other times. just recently i tried to change her food due to chronic ear problems, and since then we've had worse stomach problems. 

jessie is about 25" tall and last visit to the vet showed her weight to be settling in at just under 52 lbs, so she's not skinny from all this.

i just need some help or some suggestions....:help:


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## littlestitches (Dec 28, 2009)

Poor thing.

Have you tried treating the anxiety? Perhaps with rescue remedy

Paula


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

i was going to recommend rescue remedy for anxiety. it does help. 

back in my pet sitting days i had a client who recommended i use this for her cairn terriers when she was out of town. but i think she needed it more than they. they were the happiest little dogs on the planet. no anxiety whatsoever. 

temperance only yacks when she eats things she's not supposed to like my panties. other than that she's had a pretty good tummy.

re: jessie's diet? i'd be inclined to return back to her old diet and see about treating ears in another way? gah. i dunno.

i'm sorry. i'm not much help.


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

@ LS: thank you, i am going to look into this.

@ faerie: thank you for trying and for the early morning chuckle !


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## CelticKitti (Jul 1, 2010)

Mia had water regurgitation problems as a pup. But it was because she was drinking excessive amounts of water way to fast and swallowing air. Then she'd be walking/running and the water would just come up. 

Have you noticed Jessie drinking more water/faster than normal? Maybe all the excitement made her drink more. We managed Mia's regurgitation through a special bowl that slowed her drinking down. She eventually learned to drink slower and can drink out of a regular bowl.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Have you tried a limited ingredient diet kibble, like natural balance? I think Instinct has a new LID diet as well. 

Also, you probably don't want to hear my broken record  but I suggest trying a raw diet if you are up to it, and if you have exhausted everything else. Very few dogs have any trouble with a properly fed raw diet that consists of raw meat, bone and organ.  I promise that this is the best thing you could do for Jessie's digestive problems, as well as her overall health.


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

CK - that could be part of it. when we go away her whole system is a little upset, her routine is broken. she loves it in maryland b/c she can sit on the front deck and see all the people passing and all the dogs being walked - but all that adds to extra excitement coupled with the change in routine, i thought maybe it was mostly a part of her excitement level. for this reason, i thought of trying the Rescue Remedy and seeing if that helps her get through these stressful times - even though the stress if from good things.

CM - i know, i know, i know - i keep thinking raw and i just don't get to it. the reason is simple - i guess i have to get a book and read up on it. and there's a part of me that can't get over the feeding of bones, like whole chicken carcass. she gets raw bones now, but they are big marrow bones.

i was actually thinking this morning about raw as i was preparing her food. she's always been on grain free, & i've tried ltd ingredients natural balance but the sweet potate gives her terrible gas. she was eating Evo 95% chicken/turkey, with some raw medallians (chicken) and some broiled chicken added. her ear problems were getting so bad, that i figured she's overdosing on the chicken and could be developing an allergy. the stomach problems started when i tried other proteins like beef, bison, & venison - also Evo. 

yesterday i went to buy her food. i am now trying Wellness Core (again, grain free) i bought the chicken and the salmon. she ate the salmon last night and seemed to love it. i cooked some very thin pork medallions on the bbq with nothing on them and cut very small pieces and them to her food. 

she was better yesterday, no regurgitating at all. my concern and big hesitation about raw is: i feed her before i leave for work. sometimes she doesn't feel like eating so early. if she doesn't eat before i leave, i bring her food down to my mother's and she only leaves it down for an hour. how can you leave raw food out like that? and also, we travel a lot with her - car trips - what do you do then, travel with a cooler?

do you feed raw?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Jessie's Mom said:


> CM - i know, i know, i know - i keep thinking raw and i just don't get to it. the reason is simple - i guess i have to get a book and read up on it. and there's a part of me that can't get over the feeding of bones, like whole chicken carcass. she gets raw bones now, but they are big marrow bones.
> 
> i was actually thinking this morning about raw as i was preparing her food. she's always been on grain free, & i've tried ltd ingredients natural balance but the sweet potate gives her terrible gas. she was eating Evo 95% chicken/turkey, with some raw medallians (chicken) and some broiled chicken added. her ear problems were getting so bad, that i figured she's overdosing on the chicken and could be developing an allergy. the stomach problems started when i tried other proteins like beef, bison, & venison - also Evo.
> 
> ...


Yes, I do feed raw and it was a miracle for both Henry and Millie. Henry had acid reflux issues after his bloat surgery - he would regurgitate this weird liquid sometimes and he had a hacking cough, probably related something irritating him due to the reduced motility of his stomach. After switching to raw, he has had zero digestive issues. I have been feeding him and Millie raw for over 6 months.

It also cured Millie of her recurrent diarrhea/colitis with blood. She was getting this from kibble. As soon as I switched her to raw, she stopped having all loose stool. She hasn't had a loose stool in over 6 months, well, once when I feed too much organ meat, but that was my fault!  

Jessie would likely not turn down a raw meal in the morning. Some dogs turn their nose up to raw at first because they don't know what to do with it, but eventually most dogs are quite eager to eat their delicious raw food!

When traveling, you would indeed put Jessie's food in a cooler OR you could buy some freeze dried raw like Ziwi Peak or Honest Kitchen. 

The raw bones thing is what most people are hesitant about. It is hard to change the way your brain processes the idea of feeding raw bones. The truth is that raw bones are rather flexible. Dogs have a high acid content in their stomach which allows them to digest bone. Let's put it this way, I sometimes feed Henry a 20 ounce turkey neck (about 8-10 inches long!) and what comes out? A tiny poop the size of a pebble. Clearly, it was fully digested inside his tummy! Now, if you honestly cannot get over the idea of feeding bone, you can't feed raw because bone IS necessary for a balanced raw diet. Alternatively, you could buy a grinder and grind your own meat OR pay for the pricey pre-made stuff, though Jessie would be lacking the dental benefits.

Dogs that eat raw seem to develop stronger stomachs, IMO, because over time, they become accustomed to eating such a variety of different meats. They also, over time, develop the ability to digest bone very efficiently. A dog that is just switching to raw may not fully digest the bone they eat (which you will see with some bone fragments in their stool - normal). After several months, their stomach actually develops the ability to fully digest a whole bone if swallowed without chewing (not ideal, of course, but true.)

Another example of what a dog's stomach does to bone - sometimes Millie gets the hunger pukes in the morning if I feed her a dinner that is too small. One night I fed her a chicken leg quarter for dinner. That morning, when she had her bile/hunger puke - there was a tiny bit of bone that she threw up. It was _spongy_!


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

CM, thank you SO much :adore: for taking the time to explain so much to me. do you have a book that you can recommend (nothing too detailed - i don't have the time - lol - but something basic) so that i could start trying this diet on her? maybe even her ears would clear up. if you know of any reliable reading material, i would get it.

you make it sound so easy. and yes, i would have to work on wrapping my brain around the whole idea of bones and raw, in general. i think raw, i think diseases. definitely a retraining of the brain.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Lew Olson - Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs Amazon.com: Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs: The Definitive Guide to Homemade Meals (9781556439032): Lew Olson: Books

Wonderful book, very reasonable and easy to understand.


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

you're the best!! :highfive2: i am going to order it today!!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Jessie's Mom said:


> you're the best!! :highfive2: i am going to order it today!!


It also gives good info. about homecooked diets and ways to improve a kibble diet, so it's an all around good book!  The author's point of view is reasonable, rather than extreme. 

"Works Wonders" by Tom Lonsdale is good, too.


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

i ordered it already. will also look for the second recommendation.

just curious, will you feed tiger raw, also?


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

ChocolateMillie said:


> It also gives good info. about homecooked diets and ways to improve a kibble diet, so it's an all around good book!  The author's point of view is reasonable, rather than extreme.
> 
> "Works Wonders" by Tom Lonsdale is good, too.


this has nothing to do with the thread, however, in your post you recommend the above book as evidenced in the quote, right? however, when i got notice on aol that you responded to me, the quote was changed to:

---Quote (Originally by Jessie's Mom)---
you're the best!! :highfive2: i am going to order it today!!
---End Quote---
It also gives good info. about homecooked diets and ways to improve a kibble diet, so it's an all around good book!  The author's point of view is reasonable, rather than extreme. 

*Raw Meaty Bones by Tom Lonsdale is good, too*. is that strange ???


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Jessie's Mom said:


> this has nothing to do with the thread, however, in your post you recommend the above book as evidenced in the quote, right? however, when i got notice on aol that you responded to me, the quote was changed to:
> 
> ---Quote (Originally by Jessie's Mom)---
> you're the best!! :highfive2: i am going to order it today!!
> ...


I accidentally typed Raw Meaty Bones at first, but that wasnt the book I meant to recommend, so I edited my post to say Worls Wonders. Works Wonders is a much shorter book about raw feeding without all of the extra stuff in the Raw Meaty Bones book. I have both books and would suggest Works Wonders.

Right now Tiger is eating a mixture of raw and kibble. The only reason he has any kibble in his diet at all is because he may have to eat kibble with the handler. Although, after being used to feeding raw, I can't stand the large poop and plaque on teeth that results from eating kibble. I may cut down to 1 or 2 kibble meals a week so he can get the benefits of raw but still be able to eat kibble if necessary with the handler.

I could send him with pre-made raw when he goes out with her, but that'd cost me $250/month! Although, it's almost feeling like it would be worth it. Or, I could grind up my own pre-made patties, but that is a lot of work. :/


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

thanks for clarifying! that was pretty strange..lol

i spend a lot of money on jessie's food now - about $150 to $175 - just wondering feeding raw compares to that?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Jessie's Mom said:


> thanks for clarifying! that was pretty strange..lol
> 
> i spend a lot of money on jessie's food now - about $150 to $175 - just wondering feeding raw compares to that?


It depends entirely on the price of meat where you live. This is how I calculate how much it costs me to feed Henry and Millie raw:

Henry eats approximately 45 lbs. a month. Millie eats approximately 30 lbs. a month. Let's average my cost of feeding to $2.00 a lb. If this is true, I would be paying $150/month to feed both of them.

Certain meats are more expensive than others, and I like to splurge on things like grass fed venison, grass fed beef and lamb as well as raw green tripe, so I probably even out to about 2.50/lb on average. I don't really look for deals, so I pay a bit more than I would if I were to actually try and spend less money.


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

update on jessie's condition: she got worse each day, regurgatating when she drank water, got up from lying down, went for a walk - friday she must've regurgated about 7 times. i got the book on raw the CM recommended, started to read it, was getting excited about trying it but when she got so bad on friday, i started to look up possible causes and all i could find was info on pancreatic and liver disease. i was sick. so saturday off to the vet. i worked as a vet tech many ears back and one of the drs i worked with owns the hospital where i take jessie. he is usually not at this location but he was on saturday and i was happy cause i was a total neurotic. i was up with her from 4:00 in the morning till 6:00, so i was tired and scared. he just laughed at me. he did do a full blood chemistry just to show me she was fine. he addressed two issues: one was the food (she had been on Wellness Core for a week - actually about the same time this started to happen) and the other issue was her attachment to me & my husband, her separation anxiety. on the outside jessie is calm, sweet, easy to be around. he thinks she experiences the anxiety and just holds it in, therefore, her disgestive process is compromised. he gave her a shot of acepromozine, and gave me some pills to use for a couple of days to calm her system down. we left there, took her to the dog park, she had a good time, came home, i gave her a bath, she slept throughout the night. we went to the dog park on sunday morning again, she had a great time, running, playing. he called me later to tell me there was not one item on her blood work that was one point out of the normal column, explained again how the ace will calm her system down to prevent the overload of acid. i changed her food back to Evo for now. she has been great. back to her playful happy self. 

i am going to continue to read the book on raw and am still waiting for the second book that Chocolate Millie recommended to arrive. i may incorporate both types of feeding. her ears, well, they are good for now and i will continue to work on keeping them as clean as possible.

thank you to everyone for their suggestions and help. :adore:


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

What a relief! The first few lines of your post had me really concerned. Hopefully with the food change your issues will disappear.


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## phrannie (Jan 8, 2011)

> CM - i know, i know, i know - i keep thinking raw and i just don't get to it. the reason is simple - i guess i have to get a book and read up on it. and there's a part of me that can't get over the feeding of bones, like whole chicken carcass. she gets raw bones now, but they are big marrow bones.


*I had to chuckle, because you said exactly what I said, and what each of my friends said (before taking the plunge) about switching to raw....I had to leave the room when Moj crunched down on his first thigh bone....and was on the verge of an anxiety attack for 1/2 day . Nothing happened, and all has been well for a year...

p

PS...I'm still leery of turkey necks, tho....and that I can't explain...*


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

*update on jessie*

hi, all...just wanted to post that i am taking jessie to an internest tomorrow (thursday 6/23). been speaking with some friends on this forum and maybe it is time to make sure her condition is benign. at this point, no matter what i do, i can't get this to stop. seems worse than ever. she is down to no treats at all and eating 2x a day. she's still very energetic and she still a very happy dog, so before something changes, i made the decision, along with her vet, to bring her to an internest.

thank you all very much for your concern and input, especially CM...i will certainly keep you all posted as to what the dr says.

i'm a little (ok more than just a little) nervous, but i know this is the only way i can have peace of mind. no matter what, it is always better to know what you are dealing with - hiding from it can only bring worse circumstances.


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## rubymom (Apr 24, 2010)

Believe me, I know how the constant worry and not knowing is weighing heavy on you right about now! You have been trying to address this for some time now and it is just not getting any better from what you report. Finding out the cause and knowing what can be done will give you so much peace of mind! Good luck tomorrow!
Sending positive thoughts your way!


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

*update on jessie*

i took jessie to an internist. she was having a bad time of things and regurgitating a lot. it was mentioned to me to have her checked for megaesophogus. i went to the specialist not mentioning anything in particular except her symptons. this was the first disease she mentioned she would be checking for. she explained why (her symptons) and how they would check (xrays to start). i was a basket case. she also told me it could that being the worse to something more manageable like reflux. the xrays were inconclusive because they saw something bulging by her heart but not sure if it was her esophagus. they sent them to a radiology expert and i waited 4 long days. they called today. definitely not megaesophagus. the bulge by her heart was deemed to be nothing at all of concern. they also recommended not doing anything invasive right now but to treat her medically. so for 14 days she will be on a strick regiment of meds for her stomach and esophagus. they want me to journal when she regurgitates. i'm happy about this outcome and the fact they are not going to any other extreme right now. 

ironically, in the lasts 4 days she regurgitated twice, very little. also, beginning about a week ago, i started her on prepared raw (nature's variety, instinct) mixed in with her Evo and some grilled chicken. i think this prepared raw is agreeing with her. 

i wanted to thank everyone who responded to my thread and who pm'd me with their concerns and support and who even alerted me to this disease i've never heard of. i'm feeling so much better knowing jessie is not dealing with something that may shorten her life and something i could manage for her.

one very interesting thing: i was wondering to myself if this had anything to do with her pexy but never mentioned it to anyone - today the internist told me after i left on thursday she spoke to a surgeon who does a lot of gastropexy procedures and she mentioned to the internist that this could be a side effect. today, while talking to Chocolate Millie, she reminded me of her experience with henry about six months after he was pexied. they are not saying for sure it is related, but they are saying it is a strong possibility.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

You must be so relieved! I am happy is appears to be something that is not too serious. Hopefully the meds and the new food will be the beginning of her complete recovery!!!


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