# How much is too much?



## PoodlenPrada (Aug 13, 2014)

In 2 days my Little TPoo boy will be coming home, he'll be 12 weeks old. I'm very big on socialization and training and have already gotten him signed up for a couple of puppy play/solicitation classes during the week. One is just a weekly 45 min puppy romp around play class for Little ones 8-14weeks for socialization, it's a free class you just drop in. The other is an actually early start puppy obedience class for puppies 8-18 weeks, and its a 1hr long structured class that teachs puppy manners and intro to obedience. We start this class 4/2
A member of my dog club told me about a class starting at the end of this month that sounds SUPER fun and interesting. The class is run by the folks at the agility Center and it's a new class for puppies at least 10weeks who have not had any Real formal obedience training. You can pay as you go so there's No long term commitment if we don't like it. What's cool about it is how it's structured. The class in an hour and 15 minutes; 40 mins of structured obedience, 20 mins of a fun play & intro to agility equipment and the last 15 minutes is sort of a q&a with the instructor. I'm guessing like if you have questions on how to work with your pup on a specific task/behavior. I feel like I'm starting to ramble Lol, but my question is do you think 3 days of classes p/week would be too much for a puppy this age? It would be a Tuesday and Thursday evening and a Saturday morning. So not consecutive days. 

Any thoughts/opinions?


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I think it is great - as long as they get their rest before and after - every day is a new beginning for a puppy, and it is great if each one has positive social experiences. 
Unless it turns out that you have a fearful/shy puppy, for which any of those classes by itself would be overwhelming, and you have to start out slower....


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

You know... I am so torn on this socialization subject. I was taught to socialize the heck out of puppies when you get them, that they are moldable and if you socialize them "right" you will have a solid, happy, stable dog. 

Well... I am, at this point, beginning to change the way I think about socialization. I think you get what you get temperament wise, you can train and teach them, but you can't change who they are inside...

Jack- I wanted to do everything the right way, because my last puppy (now a 5 yr old pwd) was scared of men and it took much work to get her past that. THIS puppy, I was going to do it "right." I took him everywhere. He met all kinds of people, and dogs and he was PETRIFIED. I made him much worse. He's now afraid and reactive to strange grown-ups, kids, and dogs, (but he had 2 very bad experiences with other puppies as a puppy himself and now can pick out puppies a mile away and becomes very reactive), strange buildings also scare him. 

You see, I was "supposed" to "desensitize" him by having strangers give him treats. So then, getting treats, and then the treats themselves became a scary thing. I kept asking the trainers (positive only) what I was doing wrong and they all concluded HE was "broken" and I just had to keep up the socializing, take him everywhere...

Long story short. I stopped taking him out. If I did take him out, it was just a neighborhood walk with one of my other dogs and I also learned about BAT training, which basically lets him make the decision on how close to get to scary things. 

NOT saying this is what will happen to your puppy, but if your puppy is afraid of or intimidated by all the wild puppies (toy poodles are absolutely DELICATE) and strange people, don't be afraid to back off and hold her, let her be secure in her arms until SHE is ready to interact. 

And there are my 2C, or my experience, probably not relevant to anything anyway LOL

But since I stopped trying So hard to make Jack into something that he's not, he improved on his own, on his own time.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would phase in the classes gradually - socialisation is great as long as the puppy is enjoying it. The last thing you want is to set your pup up for scarey experiences! I would allow a few days for him to get used to the new home and your immediate family, and then move on to the play class and lots of brief happy meetings with people and dogs out and about. If all is going well, start a second class after another week or two, and perhaps save the third class until he is just a little older. An hour is a long, long time for a young puppy, even when it is broken up into play, training and rest. Classes are great, but they are only one of many kinds of socialisation - I think combining them with meeting lots of different people and nice adult dogs out and about is probably the better way.


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## PoodlenPrada (Aug 13, 2014)

Shamrockmommy said:


> You know... I am so torn on this socialization subject. I was taught to socialize the heck out of puppies when you get them, that they are moldable and if you socialize them "right" you will have a solid, happy, stable dog.
> 
> Well... I am, at this point, beginning to change the way I think about socialization. I think you get what you get temperament wise, you can train and teach them, but you can't change who they are inside...
> 
> ...


Actually your 2c is worth a whole lotta dollars!
I had a very similar experience two years ago. I purchased a Chinese crested puppy from a very well-known reputable show breeder out of state, I watched this little guy grow up on video and pictures until he was 14weeks old and came home. She kept him a bit longer because he was on the small side. He had such a wonderful mellow personality and a sweet nature (on video). When he came home he was bat **** crazy; people friendly like you wouldn't believe; old, young, male, female didn't matter, and he loved the ferret and the bird, but when it came to other dogs or inanimate objects he was cujo. We tried group class which was an epic fail then went into private training. The trainer just kept pushing “socialization…desensitizing” and it made 10x worse until I finally gave up. I felt like a horrible mom and pet owner by continuously pushing him to do things that scared the hell out of him. So I know exactly what you’re talking about. Sometimes a personality over-rides everything and you've got to accept and you’re your pet for who they are…just like with children. And believe me I’ll never cross that line again if any future puppy of mine has a similar personality type. (but crossing my fingers it never happens, cause that was ruff)


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## Naira (Jan 9, 2015)

I too have confusing views about socialization. I had a fearful, fearful, FEARFUL mini puppy who would hide from me under the bed, hide under shelves in stores...he came a LONG way, (eventually tolerated women and women only and ONLY indoors)..but no amount of socialization was going to make him the type of dog that liked to be petted by strangers outside or that would like men. It was crazy, because he was a total cuddle bug with women indoors. I tried everything to get him to be more comfortable outside...I waited until he passed to get another dog because I didn't want to subject the new dog (Naira) to basically staying inside because my other dog hated people outside. Naira is the go everywhere dog I wanted.

I agree to not force the puppy into a situation they don't care for...I said in another thread I've come to accept that Naira thinks other dogs are COOL, but she rather peacefully coexist with them than roughly play...

I think we as dog owners have to take our dogs as individuals..there isn't a cookie cutter training approach that works for every dog.....


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

I am glad others are beginning to see what I saw with Jack... in fact, the trainers where I was taking him for class (along with my pwd) who where highly recommended and "positive" trainers were making me feel absoltely detached and unhappy with Jack. I was so disappointed in him because the trainers were telling me he had a terrible, unstable temperament. Not so positive, eh!? Once I quit the classes and quit pushing him so hard, he was able to relax and be himself (he really is a delightful guy, even with his nervousness). 

Look at his experience as a puppy in "puppy" class. He was oh, 3 pounds when I started him in class. There were several other puppies there, not one a small breed who where easily 20+ pounds, and "idiots" in general- you know, the wild, happy bouncy, crashing, smashing puppy type with no self control. Jack was already well aware of self control and personal space and he was pummeled twice by puppies who got out of control of their owners. BOTH from behind. That started his HATE of dogs, especially puppies, and he can pick them out by their behavior from far away. 

Anyway, forcing Jack to take his beloved cheese from strangers just made him worse and worse, even though this "desensitizing" business was supposed to make him better. Eventually leaving the house became traumatic for him because he knew I would force him to do such scary things in scary places! Man, I feel so guilty for failing him!  

Now... any new puppies will be "homeschooled." they will learn their house and leash manners. They will be taken on walks and car rides. Treats will come from me, and if they don't want to be petted by humans or pummeled by puppies, I will respect that completely. ETA: Socializing with other dogs will be with other friendly, calm dogs early on on a case-by case basis depending on my pup's needs. 

He comes along on walks with us, and car rides and he likes home depot (on non-busy days) pretty fine. I stop humans from trying to pet him, even if it means body blocking the human or picking him up and walking he other way. Jack has improved SO much and he no longer shakes and trembles violently when we leave the house. He gets to make the choices now, and he's much more secure in that. 

I hope this helps. Depending on the temperament of your new poodle, this could be relevant or completely irrelevant. Just be respectful of his/her personality and go from there.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

Shamrockmommy said:


> You know... I am so torn on this socialization subject. I was taught to socialize the heck out of puppies when you get them, that they are moldable and if you socialize them "right" you will have a solid, happy, stable dog.
> 
> Well... I am, at this point, beginning to change the way I think about socialization. I think you get what you get temperament wise, you can train and teach them, but you can't change who they are inside...
> 
> ...


This is a very interesting thing you brought up. A dog that was so very shy... suspicious of everything sired a litter of puppies. There were 3 puppies. 2 puppies had fabulous temperaments but the only boy puppy was obviously shy. A lot of work was put into socializing him and he is now 3 years old. The pup is still quirky but he is 100 times better than his father. Since the son was genetically shy, I got my as to whether the father was genetically shy or lacking in socialization. In the son's case he was genetically shy but all the work that was done with him while he was very young (starting at 3 weeks) made a big difference in how he ultimately turned out which was much better than his father who never left his breeder's house until 11 months of age. So, this is just another side of the coin. I do believe though that you must go much slower with a shy puppy. A ride in the car was fine for the sisters but the boy was panting heavily. I know it's off-topic to the OP, so apologies for the hijack. It just seemed like a perfect anecdote to Shamrocks story.

pr


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

My toy poodle was attacked at 3 months. She was a naturally outgoing girl, at least with people. After that she was petrified of other dogs.. if she encountered friendly passive dog off leash at a friends.... She would run away, scream and then toss herself on her back. She wasn't afraid of dogs that were on a leash tho, smart girl! It didn't get better until I started to show her, and she interacted with other poodles. She's been straight since I brought home a confident 6 month old mini bitch. I made her behave and made sure she didn't mess with the toy and she got used to the routine. As time went on she became confident with my mini and even lays with her in her bed lol. As you can see by my sig they don't mind each other, and now my toy isn't bothered by other dogs. She doesn't care about dogs running into her.. maybe because she bumped into by my mini all the time lol


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

I've been wrestling with this question for Molly who is now 16 weeks old. She has not completed her shots, still needs rabies and the vet advises not to risk exposure yet. I'm still contemplating Bordatella shots or not. I am not a fan of doing any more vaccines than necessary, and I have titer tests done on Callie. Many of the classes are held in pet shops, or places like you mention and the vet reminded me that no matter how clean the floor is - many viruses are airborne. Molly has Callie, and she's met my niece's lab and I was thinking of taking her over to my neighbor's who has a chihuahua. I know its important to socialize, but I am very leery of early shots, especially rabies and opted to wait another month for it. She was in a lot of pain with her last parvo/distemper shot. I'm also leery of exposing her to places where many many dogs I don't know have been. Molly seems very outgoing, and I agree, that the temperament of the poodle can be relevant or completely irrelevant. 
When I got Callie, she had had all her shots early and when I took her to a puppy play time and a puppy class she did not want anything to do with other dogs from the very beginning. No matter how much I exposed her to other dogs, she wants no part of playing with them (with the exception of one portugese water dog) After a few weeks of having Molly, she and Molly get along and she has learned to play with her.
So I have two different temperaments, one reserved and one very friendly. I don't think it will hurt Molly to wait another month for a puppy class.


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## PoodlenPrada (Aug 13, 2014)

Poodlerunner said:


> This is a very interesting thing you brought up. A dog that was so very shy... suspicious of everything sired a litter of puppies. There were 3 puppies. 2 puppies had fabulous temperaments but the only boy puppy was obviously shy. A lot of work was put into socializing him and he is now 3 years old. The pup is still quirky but he is 100 times better than his father. Since the son was genetically shy, I got my as to whether the father was genetically shy or lacking in socialization. In the son's case he was genetically shy but all the work that was done with him while he was very young (starting at 3 weeks) made a big difference in how he ultimately turned out which was much better than his father who never left his breeder's house until 11 months of age. So, this is just another side of the coin. I do believe though that you must go much slower with a shy puppy. A ride in the car was fine for the sisters but the boy was panting heavily. I know it's off-topic to the OP, so apologies for the hijack. It just seemed like a perfect anecdote to Shamrocks story.
> 
> pr


No apologies necessary. I think everything that's been said here so far is completely on topic to the post. Socialization is a hot topic, how much is too much and when does it become counterproductive in the case of shy/timid pups. Sometimes it takes listening to and learning from other's experiences to gain perspective. So I for one very much appreciate your story and insight. Thank you : )


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Take it gradually. Let your puppy tell you what he's ready for. He should have nothing but a fun time. If something is over whelming, that is not fun. That is not making positive associations and does not socialize a puppy. If something is frightening, back up and find a milder form of it and introduce with some distance between, enough that the puppy feels safe... and take it in baby steps and don't proceed until puppy is ready. 

Isolating a puppy is a big mistake. I've seen what can happen with that more times than I can count fingers on both hands. 

It is not that socializing too much is a bad thing. It's over whelming a puppy too much and mislabeling it as socialization that is too much. It's a very necessary thing to expose puppies at a very young age to novel things. Any behaviorist will tell you that. Every animal needs this or they won't survive. If there were not an early critical socialization period in *ALL* animals, a window which closes at various times depending on the species, you'd have wild animals that didn't know what was safe and what was dangerous. They'd have too many false positives (thinking something was safe that wasn't and be killed and be unable to pass on their survival genes.) BUT it must be done correctly and carefully with puppies. 

Not every puppy is ready for a class situation. If it's too much for a puppy, the trainer should recommend private help or offer suggestions, not a class situation. Overwhelming, forcing, flooding a puppy is_ not _socialization. And some puppies are very difficult if they have a rather weak temperament.


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

I apologize, didn't mean to hijack the thread. Just because Jack and I had bad experiences doesn't mean anyone else will.

I also believe in genetically shy, I didn't meet his sire, but the dam was perfectly happy and outgoing. 

I was thinking about it back in the day, a couple decades ago- you weren't supposed to really socialize or take your dog to training classes till all shots were complete, at least that's how I remember it. Now it's expected to get them to class asap, 8 weeks is just fine... 

Anyway. Good discussion, even if I am a bad hijacker


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Isolating a puppy is a big mistake. I've seen what can happen with that more times than I can count on both hands.
> 
> 
> 
> Not every puppy is ready for a class situation. If it's too much for a puppy, the trainer should recommend private help or offer suggestions, not a class situation. Overwhelming, forcing, flooding a puppy is_ not _socialization. And some puppies are very difficult if they have a rather weak temperament.


Agree with everything here. Isolating is bad, carefully controlled outings are good. The latter part of your quote there about classes is what gave Jack his terrible opinions on dogs and strangers.  And me pushing and pushing him to accept these things as good. 

He is slowly coming out of it, but he has also taught me another important dog lesson. Puppy gets the last word about socializing situations.


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## PoodlenPrada (Aug 13, 2014)

Yes it is all rather confusing now days about the right age to get started (temperament aside) with puppy training, and exposure without being fully vaccinated. 

Something I did learn with my last pup was mentioned a few posts back about a lot of things being airborne. The only way to completely avoid any of it is to never take your puppy/dog out of the house, because carrying him/her around is just as risky if things are airborne. I'd never purposefully place myself or my pup in harms way of take him someplace gross, but honestly how can you ever be sure "where is safe?" In my mind letting him run around at an enclosed training facility where all the dogs are required to be age appropriately vaccinated posses less risk than carrying him around a pet store.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I have had it both ways - Teaka was just like Jack -scared of everything, and all of my efforts made her worse, and eventually I just learned to accept her for the great house dog that she is.
But if the OP should get a pup like Timi who was bomb proof right out of the gate, she would have happily gone to a class every day of the week!


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## PoodlenPrada (Aug 13, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I have had it both ways - Teaka was just like Jack -scared of everything, and all of my efforts made her worse, and eventually I just learned to accept her for the great house dog that she is.
> But if the OP should get a pup like Timi who was bomb proof right out of the gate, she would have happily gone to a class every day of the week!


I'm hoping for a Timi, but will Love him all the same if he turns out to be a shy Guy.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

PoodlenPrada said:


> Yes it is all rather confusing now days about the right age to get started (temperament aside) with puppy training, and exposure without being fully vaccinated.
> 
> Something I did learn with my last pup was mentioned a few posts back about a lot of things being airborne. The only way to completely avoid any of it is to never take your puppy/dog out of the house, because carrying him/her around is just as risky if things are airborne. I'd never purposefully place myself or my pup in harms way of take him someplace gross, but honestly how can you ever be sure "where is safe?" In my mind letting him run around at an enclosed training facility where all the dogs are required to be age appropriately vaccinated posses less risk than carrying him around a pet store.


I believe it's a balancing act. It's terrible if a puppy picks up some horrible disease. Some of them can kill the puppy. But an absence of socialization during the early critical period of birth through about 14-16 weeks can ruin a puppy's life, just as surely as a deadly disease. A puppy that is emotionally imbalanced, frightened of it's own shadow it's whole life does not have much fun. Several veterinarians' opinions about relative safety as far as how many vaccines they've had have told me (and I've read) that after two series, that should be pretty darn safe. This is what I've always done. I always try to balance things when I first get an 8 week old puppy. The first week I don't take them anywhere. Then I do, but judiciously. I take them to see neighbor kids and find a neighbor or family member with a safe, friendly, healthy dog to introduce. 

I don't go where a ton of puppies I don't know frequent, such as a pet store, a dog park, puppy classes until they've had 2 series of shots. If you wait until all the vaccines are finished you miss out on that window of time where it's so important to expose puppies to many things and people, dogs you know are healthy and friendly, gentle etc. You can set up the situations and control the best you can the environments you take your puppy. A little introduction here and there every day. 

It definitely helps if the puppy is born with a good temperament and the breeder started socialization at his/her house. My Poodle puppies were born with excellent temperaments and were easy to socialize. Some are not. You have to cater to their individuality. Some breeds are easier to socialize than others and perhaps don't seem to take as much diligence. But why take the risk? 

So for me...bottom line: I'd be less unhappy about a puppy that died from a disease as one that had a lifetime full of fear, being terrified of everything. Both ruin lives so finding a balance is the only thing we can do since the vaccines take place during the same months that the early critical socialization window is opened.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

PoodlenPrada said:


> I'm hoping for a Timi, but will Love him all the same if he turns out to be a shy Guy.



What did your breeder say about the puppy? I didn't know enough what to ask when 
I got Teaka, but I knew exactly what I wanted in Timi, and my breeder delivered!


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Shamrockmommy , I agree with you


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## Naira (Jan 9, 2015)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I believe it's a balancing act. It's terrible if a puppy picks up some horrible disease. Some of them can kill the puppy. But an absence of socialization during the early critical period of birth through about 14-16 weeks can ruin a puppy's life, just as surely as a deadly disease. A puppy that is emotionally imbalanced, frightened of it's own shadow it's whole life does not have much fun. Several veterinarians' opinions about relative safety as far as how many vaccines they've had have told me (and I've read) that after two series, that should be pretty darn safe. This is what I've always done. I always try to balance things when I first get an 8 week old puppy. The first week I don't take them anywhere. Then I do, but judiciously. I take them to see neighbor kids and find a neighbor or family member with a safe, friendly, healthy dog to introduce.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I totally agree. I'm sure there are high parvo areas and high distemper areas but I bet far more puppies die from lack of socialization that leads to fearfulness that leads to biting that leads to the pound...that leads to euthanasia.


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## PoodlenPrada (Aug 13, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> What did your breeder say about the puppy? I didn't know enough what to ask when
> I got Teaka, but I knew exactly what I wanted in Timi, and my breeder delivered!


His personality has really started to blossom since Valentine's weekend. He was a lot smaller than his litter mate brother and before the brother left for his new home Valentine's weekend Phoenix was a lot more quiet and reserved. Since that time he's really come out of his shell and coming into his personality. 

He loves to play with the other dogs, but when he gets tired he happily retreats to the comfort of a lap for quiet time. She says he loves human attention but won't fight for it when the bigger dogs start piling around for their share, he moves out of the pile to the side and will sit and wait to be noticed By his human. It doesn't sounds like he likes being crowded on top of, but he doesn't get aggressive he just moves away. I don't know if thats bad or good (it reminds me of the behavior of invisible/middle child syndrome). I likes being held even on his back like a baby and will often fall sleep that way When someone is holding him or has him in their lap. 

She says hes not really phased by much in the way of strange things and noises. He's definately not the first to go investigating, but doesn't run or hide from it either. He likes finding things that you hide from him like treats and toys and is utterly fascinated by this wooden puzzle box thing she has for her older dogs. You hide treats in it and he's had to open the compartments to get the treats. I bought on from Dr Foster's and Smith website. It's not the same like the one she has but I'm hoping he'll like it anyway. 

He's not a barker. I'm not sure if That's bad or Good either, but according to the breeder non of her dogs are so maybe he just learned not to be a barker cause no one else is barking? He's a car hop, and loves outings even to the vet. He's had very minimal interaction with other dogs outside of the home, she says he shows and interest in playing and socializing, but just like at home he doesn't Seem to like dogs in his face or jumping all over him. I Wonder if it's because he's still pretty small (just broke the 2lbs mark). 

He does really Good with grooming and apparently REALLY REALLY loves water, bath and outdoors. I am SO NOT a water person so he and I may have to work something out around water sports lol. 

So thats pretty much all I know about his personality/temperament from a collection of reports over the past 11 weeks.


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## PoodlePaws (May 28, 2013)

I am of no help. My poodles didn't go outside or step foot in the grass or on the ground until 2 weeks after their last set of shots. My vet does a 4 series schedule. So they were 4 months old. Longest 2.5 months of my life. Lol.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

PoodlenPrada said:


> His personality has really started to blossom since Valentine's weekend. He was a lot smaller than his litter mate brother and before the brother left for his new home Valentine's weekend Phoenix was a lot more quiet and reserved. Since that time he's really come out of his shell and coming into his personality.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He sounds quite good! I especially like that he is comfortable belly-up, is not reactive to sudden noises, and is not barky! Being co-operative with grooming is an extra bonus!
The only thing is slightly questionable is how he relates to other dogs, so you will probably want to take it slow and feel him out and see what his needs are on that - so that might mean that it would be wise to take it slow on the classes though.
What color is he?


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## PoodlenPrada (Aug 13, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> He sounds quite good! I especially like that he is comfortable belly-up, is not reactive to sudden noises, and is not barky! Being co-operative with grooming is an extra bonus!
> The only thing is slightly questionable is how he relates to other dogs, so you will probably want to take it slow and feel him out and see what his needs are on that - so that might mean that it would be wise to take it slow on the classes though.
> What color is he?


Yes I'm interested in seeing how he relates to others also. It's one thing to hear about it from a story as opposed to witnessing the dynamics for yourself. I'm sure by the time we get home from the airport tomorrow I'll have some more info. and LOTS of pictures to share 

Off topic.....it hadn't even crossed my mind until my husband asked this morning. Are we suppose to tip the Flight Nanny? Has anyone ever used one?


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

PoodlenPrada said:


> Yes I'm interested in seeing how he relates to others also. It's one thing to hear about it from a story as opposed to witnessing the dynamics for yourself. I'm sure by the time we get home from the airport tomorrow I'll have some more info. and LOTS of pictures to share
> 
> 
> 
> Off topic.....it hadn't even crossed my mind until my husband asked this morning. Are we suppose to tip the Flight Nanny? Has anyone ever used one?



Very excited for you, can was it to hear all about it!
Can't advise you on the flight Nanny, but I would guess that since it is a relatively new thing, there would be no expectations, and it would be at your discretion. How much are you paying for them in excess of the cost of the ticket and puppy charge from the airlines? Is it somebody that the breeder knows or is it an employee of an outside agency? Because it is through an agency then they are likely not getting the full fee, and a tip would be more called for than if they are an independent contractor...


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## PoodlenPrada (Aug 13, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Very excited for you, can was it to hear all about it!
> Can't advise you on the flight Nanny, but I would guess that since it is a relatively new thing, there would be no expectations, and it would be at your discretion. How much are you paying for them in excess of the cost of the ticket and puppy charge from the airlines? Is it somebody that the breeder knows or is it an employee of an outside agency? Because it is through an agency then they are likely not getting the full fee, and a tip would be more called for than if they are an independent contractor...


The flight nanny was set up through the breeder, and someone she knows personally and uses to deliver pups when necessary, it’s not an agency. Originally my puppy was just going to fly home by himself at 10 weeks, but he had to stay longer because he was small. We thought he would have reached the 2lb mark for flying solo by 10 weeks old but he wasn't even close so it was either leave him with the breeder for a few more weeks until he reached 2 lbs (which he’s still just shy of), or use a puppy nanny to get him home. He’d already been paid in full including the shipping fees, so when talks of the puppy nanny came up and we decided to go that route, instead of leaving him longer with the breeder. I had to pay an additional $67 for the Nanny. She said the original shipping fee would be transferred to the Nanny ticket and the in cabin fee for the pup (which I know is $125). The original shipping fees were $300 (flight, new kennel and vet cert), then added the $67. So altogether $367. If you subtract the puppy ticket of $125 that only leaves $242 for the nanny’s ticket and the other stuff. 

I don’t know anyone who’s ever used a puppy flight nanny so I don’t know if this is about right, or under/over the usual cost.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

i don't know the custom re tipping, but i would, no matter what, if my puppy arrived in good condition. i tip the guys who deliver furniture. a puppy delivered safe and sound is worth a lot more than furniture to me.


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## PoodlenPrada (Aug 13, 2014)

patk said:


> i don't know the custom re tipping, but i would, no matter what, if my puppy arrived in good condition. i tip the guys who deliver furniture. a puppy delivered safe and sound is worth a lot more than furniture to me.


That sounds reasonable. But What do you think would be an appropriate tip, would $50 or $60 dollars be Ok? With all the stuff we've been purchasing for the puppy and our recent vacation were playing a bit of catch up on finances.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

$40 - $50 if you can afford it sounds good to me. maybe there's a protocol that says more or less, but i don't know what it is. perhaps a breeder who has used flight nannies before can chime in. btw, i also don't tip if there's bad attitude or no service. tipping is voluntary, no matter what the social conventions of the moment say and if you're not happy for some reason, don't fell compelled to tip. looking forward to many photos from you sharing your puppy with us! (but we only give thanks here, no tipping! lol!)


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

PoodlenPrada said:


> The flight nanny was set up through the breeder, and someone she knows personally and uses to deliver pups when necessary, it’s not an agency. Originally my puppy was just going to fly home by himself at 10 weeks, but he had to stay longer because he was small. We thought he would have reached the 2lb mark for flying solo by 10 weeks old but he wasn't even close so it was either leave him with the breeder for a few more weeks until he reached 2 lbs (which he’s still just shy of), or use a puppy nanny to get him home. He’d already been paid in full including the shipping fees, so when talks of the puppy nanny came up and we decided to go that route, instead of leaving him longer with the breeder. I had to pay an additional $67 for the Nanny. She said the original shipping fee would be transferred to the Nanny ticket and the in cabin fee for the pup (which I know is $125). The original shipping fees were $300 (flight, new kennel and vet cert), then added the $67. So altogether $367. If you subtract the puppy ticket of $125 that only leaves $242 for the nanny’s ticket and the other stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t know anyone who’s ever used a puppy flight nanny so I don’t know if this is about right, or under/over the usual cost.



Wow, that sounds like a great deal and that the Nanny is hardly getting paid anything at all - I would give her a nice tip!


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## mom2m (Dec 24, 2014)

I would tip the Nanny...whatever you can manage.

As for the classes, I'd not only see how the puppy likes the classes, I'd check out the sizes of the other dogs. If the class is filled with huge puppies, it might be best to give it a pass. 

There has been a lot of carefully thought out information on this thread.


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

It is so difficult to find a puppy class that has even a few small dogs in it. It seems that 8 out of 10 new dog owners have labs (very original!) I've found a class that has two labs pups, a newfoundland, a hound and one maltese! My town seems to be poodle deprived! I'm thinking of getting Molly's rabies shot in a few weeks, and putting her in that one - otherwise I have to wait for another six weeks. We are also dog class deprived unless we want to drive 20 miles at night to find one in the city! We have lots of dog trainers, but they all want to do private lessons, which defeats the purpose of socializing with other dogs. I'm frustrated!


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