# Red Toy (and/or Standard) poodle breeders - UK and EU



## Taimur (Mar 28, 2021)

Hi All,

Was wondering if we could ask for advice regarding red toy and standard breeders in the UK and EU.

We are based in the UK and are currently on the lookout for a red toy poodle but might consider a standard as well as other darker colours.

Any steer in the right direction would be sincerely appreciated...as we've come across some dubious 'breeders'.... particularly with red poodles!


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## Taimur (Mar 28, 2021)

(also incredibly nervous about posting on an online forum - so if i make a poodle forum faux pas then please let me know  )


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## curlflooffan (Mar 27, 2020)

The best way to find a poodle breeder in Europe of any colour is to find the national FCI club (the british kennel club is not part of the FCI but all the other European countries are, for Britain look on the KC website). 

Here is the list of FCI member countries: 
FCI members and contract partners

Each will have a link to the website of the national kennel club. On there you should usually be able to find their national poodle clubs (note that Germany has 4 poodle clubs). The national poodle clubs often have a list of breeders but the usability of these websites vary, its a bit of pain. There are sometimes 'find a puppy' site on there, but as most breeders have waiting lists I don't find them useful. Its best to find the breeder and contact them. Many responsible breeders don't have websites or their websites are outdated, which makes this search even harder! 

Now, whether you can trust ALL of the breeders on the list of breeders of the national poodle clubs varies between the countries. 

You see the primary role of kennel clubs is to keep record of the ancestry of purebred dogs, also known as pedigrees, and preserve the breeds. In the last decades some kennel clubs have taken on a more diverse role, many becoming advocates for healthier breeding practices and overal dog welfare in their countries. But there is a division, so some kennel clubs still view their role to be primarily a registry, they will publish guidelines on health testing and welfare, they may even fund research, but they do not enforce these guidelines. Meaning that as long as the parents are of the same breed, are registered themselves and the breeder is being truthful about parentage, they will register the litter. 

In other countries, such as in many of the Nordic clubs and the dutch kennel club, they take a different approach. There are basic welfare rules (how old the bitch is, how many litters she can have) and in addition to those welfare rules each breed is given specific rules unique to their situation and needs (such as which health tests need to be done, how often, etc). If a breeder fails to fulfil these criteria the kennel club will refuse to register the litter. With no pedigree the off spring often sells for less, cannot participate in dog shows and any puppies they have will not be registered either. 

I know this because I am in Belgium, but I was looking for a miniature in any of the bordering countries. I won't lie to you, this was a pain in the backside! I swear finding a reputable breeder can sometimes feel like you are trying track someone down who is in a witness protection programme!

What this means for potential buyers is that if you are looking at multiple countries you need to know what's behind the pedigree in each country. If you are looking at a country where the kennel club is not as strict, you need to do your own due diligence and make sure that the breeder is following those voluntary guidelines anyway. Know that the pedigree only tells you that the dog is purebred, it tells you nothing about the quality and health of the puppy or the welfare of the breeding dogs. You will notice that the list of breeders are often longer in these countries, but you have to sort through the not very good ones from the good ones. The breeders are not necessarily worse in these countries, many will be doing all of the right things anyway, the thing is that they are just not forced to do so. 

In the stricter countries the breeders associated with the clubs are often fewer, it can then be harder to find the specific colour that you are looking for but you don't have to sort through as many bad breeders as with the other registries. I still recommend doing your own diligence, even though the kennel club does inspections and paperwork checks its always good to do it yourself too. But you can be fairly confident in the stricter countries that if the dog has a pedigree at least the very basic welfare and health testing is guaranteed if you are getting an FCI pedigree dog.

What to look out for in these countries, and this actually applies to the UK too. The UK is not as strict but it does have basic welfare rules such as age of the bitch and frequency of litters and I think inbreeding too. What you often see is advertisements of 'parents registered with the kennel club but the puppies are not'. The breeder might try to convince you that its just an unnecessary expense for a pet puppy, that since you don't want to show in conformation there is no reason to register the puppy and that you know that its a purebred because the parents are registered.

What it actually means is that they haven't fulfilled all of the welfare requirements of their kennel club, thats why the litter isn't registered.


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## curlflooffan (Mar 27, 2020)

Some resources that might be helpful: 

Brexit | Campaigns | The Kennel Club - information on important a dog to the UK

Dutch poodle club

Some dutch poodle breeders belong to the companion breed club (is still in the FCI national club, just different breed club)

Belgian poodle club 

French poodle club 

Irish kennel club - Unfortunately I could not find a list of breeders and it looks like the poodle club is the most active on facebook so you can check that out. 

German kennel club (there are four legitimate poodle clubs that belong to the national german kennel club)

These are just some examples of starting points. I can't guarantee that all of the breeders on these sites or belonging to the clubs are good. But I have never seen a puppy mill with FCI or KC pedigrees so it at least filters out the most horrific breeders. Plus in my experience this is the best way to find the good breeders.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Taimur said:


> (also incredibly nervous about posting on a forum - so if make an poodle forum faux pas then please let me know  )


Welcome! Thanks for pushing through your nervousness. We’re happy to have you.  You’ve gotten some good information from @curlflooffan and I hope it helps you in your search. It’s a challenging time for finding puppies, but your patience and research will pay off.


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## FaceForRadio (Mar 11, 2021)

We are in a similar position to you.

Despite us finding a breeder and thinking that we had reserved a pup, the breeder is now not returning our calls/emails, so it appears we have been let down from a supposedly "reputable" breeder.

Were disappointed but I’d rather be let down now than when money has exchanged.

We contacted one of the breed clubs (the other breed clubs haven't responded) who made a couple of recommendations (including the above) but most haven’t returned our messages and the ones that have, have waiting lists as long as your arm unfortunately.

Seems it's going to be a bit of a waiting game for us, but we still have one breeder we've been talking to but not having a litter until at least September.

It seems it has gone crazy however our local dog rescue centre are now inundated with dogs from people "not being able to cope" or returning to work. So in my opinion it's only a matter of time really before the bottom falls out the whole thing and it starts to calm down.

I just feel sorry for the poor dogs in rescues.


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