# communication expectations



## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

First, I want to apologize for asking so many questions. Unfortunately, I don’t have anyone else to ask for advice.

Now, my question. I’m wondering what sort of communication I should expect from a breeder between the time I initially express an interest in a potential litter until the pup comes home with me. Should I expect that the breeder will notify me when a pregnancy has been confirmed? Should I expect (detailed?) information about the dam and sire? Am I expecting too much?

On the one hand, the breeder has been _excellent_ at replying quickly; on the other, she hasn't really given me too much information about her dog or the sire. I will say I'm a bit disappointed that she didn't email me about the pregnancy confirmation. Just a two line group message (as I'm sure there are others interested in the litter) would have been nice.

I think part of my feeling is that I have a few concerns about the breeder, but I'm willing to overlook them because of the recommendation of the first breeder.

Here’s a rough breakdown of communication to date:

Day 1: My initial contact with breeder to explain how I found them (referral from another breeder), tell them about my family, and explain why I’m interested in one of their poodles
Day 1: Breeder reply – on way to breed pup, more info later
Day 2: My reply – thanks, looking forward to more info
Day 5: Breeder message – breeding complete, more info later
Day 7: My reply – thanks, have many questions, looking forward to more info
Day 14: My new message to breeder asking for updates and a few specific questions (e.g., health testing, application process)
Day 14: Breeder reply – general answers to my questions, asks what I’m looking for in a puppy, says to be patient
Day 16: My reply - thanks, info about temperament I'd like / plans for dog
approx. Day 43: Breeder's web site confirms pregnancy


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Hi Cookieface,

Are you on the waiting list for a puppy from this litter (you've given a deposit) or are you still just talking to the breeder about her program?

What are the concerns you have? Just curious.

I have found that breeders, particularly breeders who show their dogs, are very busy people and are often communicating with a ton of other people, too. If you are on the wait list for a pup from this litter I think an email would have been nice, though.


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

PaddleAddict said:


> Hi Cookieface,
> 
> Are you on the waiting list for a puppy from this litter (you've given a deposit) or are you still just talking to the breeder about her program?


I've expressed a definite interest, but have not given a deposit. The breeder said she takes non-refundable deposits after the pups are born. Not sure if she has an official waiting list, and if so, what my status would be.



PaddleAddict said:


> What are the concerns you have? Just curious.


Mostly the number and timing of recent litters. I can PM you more details if you're interested.



PaddleAddict said:


> I have found that breeders, particularly breeders who show their dogs, are very busy people and are often communicating with a ton of other people, too. If you are on the wait list for a pup from this litter I think an email would have been nice, though.


I certainly understand being busy and not having time for frequent, detailed messages. Like I said, I'm not sure about my status with her, but I've expressed definite interest and have asked specifically for updates.

Thanks for your comments! Guess I'm just nervous.


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

*maybe a phone call would help*



cookieface said:


> I've expressed a definite interest, but have not given a deposit. The breeder said she takes non-refundable deposits after the pups are born. Not sure if she has an official waiting list, and if so, what my status would be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

Ms Stella said:


> Some people just dont like emailing. I think if it were me I would ask when is a good time to speak on the telephone. I imagine breeders get a long of people...some serious and some just asking...emailing about their dogs. A phone call might give you what you want and get your questions answered.


Thanks. At this point, I'm not even sure what I should be asking. I asked about health testing was told "yes, it was all done" but no details. I specifically asked about an application and that's when she mentioned the deposit. I could ask about showing, titles, etc., how the pups are raised from birth to 8/10 weeks, full name of sire, other dogs in the pedigree. Guess I have more questions than I thought. I'll contact her and ask about a good time to call.

My biggest issue is that I'm _so incredibly_ nervous about the whole thing. I don't want to make a mistake because I (and especially my spoo) could be suffering for many years. My husband and I have talked about getting a dog for over 20 years and now that it's about to happen, I want everything to be perfect. 

Thanks again to you and PoodleAddict.


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

I've got a few minutes tonight, so will add in my thoughts. 
I get several emails a week asking about puppies, and try to answer as quickly as possible, but with full time work, hubby on disability and the Poodles..it might not happen. I DO like follow up phone calls 

Very few puppy buyers are willing to wait the 4-5 months for a litter to be conceived, whelped and old enough to go to new homes. I used to keep a list and contact everyone that had inquired. 99% of the time the buyer had found something "sooner".
I do not take deposits on upcoming litters, as I would not want someone to feel they "had" to buy a puppy.
There are also times when the emails get lost..like my PC crashed and I lost everything..arrrghhh.
Now I tell buyers to watch the website for pregnancy confirmation, then when litters are born, to email or give me a call. Then can set up deposits, etc

Just give the breeder a call so they know you are still interested. ( I've waited over 2 years for the right dog).


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

Thanks! Like I said, I understand being busy, receiving many inquiries, etc. and can see how it would be overwhelming. I'll email later this week and schedule a time to call. I don't want to seem like a pest, but I don't want to miss out either.


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

Thank you for all the advice. Earlier today, I emailed the breeder, explained that I had seen the update, and asked to schedule a phone call. I mentioned that my husband and I have been waiting over 20 years for a dog, so hopefully she understands that I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I'm just excited.


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

For anyone interested, I emailed the breeder about calling. She said there will be a sonogram in a few weeks to determine the number of puppies and I should remain patient. Mostly, I want her to know that I'm serious - I'd hate to lose a puppy because I didn't do something...

Thanks again for the advice given. I appreciate it.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Good luck to you. Another good poodle home is always a good thing!


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

One more question, if you don't mind.

I noticed that the pregnancy announcement is gone from the breeder's web site (I was told the puppies would be born between October 3 and 5 based on the mating date). Do you think that's signifcant? I'm trying _very hard_ to be patient - as instructed by the breeder - but I'm also so eager to have my pup.

Thanks!


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## glomor (Oct 5, 2011)

Hi! 
It's not clear to me if you ever got any specific answers to your initial questions. At the very least, I would expect to know the full registered name of both sire and dam so you can check OFFA yourself to see completed health test results.

Then if you are satisfied with that information, I would ask if there is a waiting list and how do you get on it, short of the non-refundable deposit which the breeder already told you wasn't due until after the litter is born.

I understand that breeders want to wait until pups are on the ground so they know the number, sex, and color of the pups before taking serious deposits, but you don't even have enough information to know if you are interested in this litter.

So far you seem to be receiving vague responses meant to keep you dangling until there are cute puppy pictures to sway your heart.

Gloria


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

glomor said:


> Hi!
> It's not clear to me if you ever got any specific answers to your initial questions. At the very least, I would expect to know the full registered name of both sire and dam so you can check OFFA yourself to see completed health test results.
> 
> Then if you are satisfied with that information, I would ask if there is a waiting list and how do you get on it, short of the non-refundable deposit which the breeder already told you wasn't due until after the litter is born.
> ...


Thank you Gloria.

At this point I just feel as though perhaps I'm not meant to have a dog. Since we've started looking, we've had one disappointment after another. I'm practically in tears because I don't know what's going on. I don't feel comfortable emailing again, but I don't know what to do. I trust the people who recommended this breeder, but it's just not worked out the way I expected.


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## papoodles (Jun 27, 2011)

*City Lights Standards, Staten Island*

Hi Cookieface,
In September while attending the Mennen Arena dog show here in NJ I met a lovely couple, both of them surgeons, who were attending with their wonderful brown standard puppy.
He was so gorgeous with a calm manner, and regal presence.I was so impressed by him.
After some really interesting, informative conversation about specific breeders( I am waiting for Unique puppy) I found out that they were breeding standard poodles in Staten Island, the name is City Lights kennel, and they are expecting puppies in March..Very very nice and knowledgeable people..
Have a look, it couldn't hurt?
City Lights Standard Poodles - ABOUT POODLES


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

I agree with Glomor. You should be getting more info from the breeder. I don't think you should be thinking that this is the breeder that you want until you have more info. For example, what about the temperament of the dogs? I've found that the temperaments can vary tremendously from one breeder to another. Some poodles are high-energy and some are relatively calm. A high-energy dog would be good if you are a high-energy person and plan to give your dog a lot of exercise or do agility or go jogging with your dog. I was looking for a dog that was relatively calm--and I found the perfect dog for me. I asked breeders about temperament and only considered the ones that said that the dogs they breed are calm. Then I met both of the parents of my girl Cammie before putting a deposit down. I also met her--she was 7 weeks when I put the deposit down. You can't always meet the father dog, but IMO you should be able to meet the mom and see if you like her. I was also looking for a spoo who was on the small side of standards, so I asked about size. And I am fortunate enough to have a breeder friend who was able to examine the pedigree, so I looked up my pup's mom and dad on poodlepedigree.com and my friend was quite impressed with the pedigree. Whatever you are looking for--color, size, temperament--you should be getting answers and making sure that the dog you get is the one that is going to be right for you.

I would definitely be talking to more breeders until you find the litter that is right for you. Some breeders like email and some like phone calls. Some have lots of info on their web site and some don't even have a web site. You can be respectful about the breeder's choice of how to communicate, but you definitely need to find a breeder who will answer all your questions and give you enough info to make an informed decision. 

Where do you live? If you are in the PA, NY, NJ area, I can recommend some extremely good breeders.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

cookieface said:


> Thank you Gloria.
> 
> At this point I just feel as though perhaps I'm not meant to have a dog. Since we've started looking, we've had one disappointment after another. I'm practically in tears because I don't know what's going on. I don't feel comfortable emailing again, but I don't know what to do. I trust the people who recommended this breeder, but it's just not worked out the way I expected.


Don't despair, Cookieface. You are MEANT to have a dog, it's just a matter of the RIGHT poodle coming along. (From your posts here, it's _evident _you've done everything possible to welcome a pup into your home. This dog will have an amazing home!) These things have a way of working themselves out and I'm a firm believer that we don't choose our pooches, they choose us. You don't always get the dog you want, but the dog you _need_. 

If you are in the NJ area and are willing to make yet more phone calls, I highly recommend you speak with Carolyn of Cabryn Poodles. She'll answer e-mails but she's an admitted "technophobe."  She always returns phone calls. Even if you don't get one of her poodles, perhaps she can answer some of your questions and allay your concerns. I'm sure *Chagall's Mom* wouldn't mind, and I don't mind, if you mentioned us. We both have Cabryn miniatures (silver) and we both ADORE them. My Cabryn poodle is "Merlin," or Cabryn Silver Bullet out of Cabryn Hi Ho Silver. (Chagall is out of Cabryn Lone Ranger.) 

I would get another poodle from Carolyn in a heartbeat. (I came about my silver in a roundabout way yet was duly impressed with Carolyn. She's a class act!) 

Poodles For Sale


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

cookieface said:


> Thank you Gloria.
> 
> At this point I just feel as though perhaps I'm not meant to have a dog. Since we've started looking, we've had one disappointment after another. I'm practically in tears because I don't know what's going on. I don't feel comfortable emailing again, but I don't know what to do. I trust the people who recommended this breeder, but it's just not worked out the way I expected.


Please do not despair, *cookieface*! There is DEFINITELY a poodle out there with your name on him/her! As Rowan mentioned, Carolyn O'Rourke of Cabryn Poodles will certainly be happy to help you in your search. Feel free to tell her "Chagall's mom" suggested you contact her. Also, have you looked on the Watchung Mountain Poodle Club (NJ) website for their litter and rescue announcements? Or the William Penn Poodle Club (PA), for the same? I know it can be very disappointing to want something _so much _and to work so hard at getting it only to face delays and seemingly dead ends. I will be more than happy to help you become a poodle mom in any way I can. Feel free to PM me, if you like. I hope you'll soon be picking out names for a poodle of your very own!:nod:


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

Hi cookieface - Please don't give up. You've put your heart into this search, and I just know the perfect puppy for you is out there. 

I completely agree with Gloria that at the very least, you are entitled to know _at this point in the process_ the names of the sire and dam. How can you be expected to move forward with this breeder unless you have that information so you can check for health testing, etc.?

You also shouldn't feel bad about having questions, and you deserve to have these questions answered. You are doing your part to bring into your home a new family member that hopefully will be with you for a dozen years or more, and it's important that you can make an informed decision.

Let me also give an endorsement of Cabryn Poodles - a good friend has one of Carolyn's minis, and he is a dream. She also had the highest praise for Carolyn and how helpful and caring she was during the puppy search process.

It may be time to cast a wider net in your search, while keeping in touch with the breeder you already have on your list.


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

cookieface, have you checked this web site, poodlesonline? Here is the link to the page that contains information on new litters. Some of these breeders have puppies to go now, or in the very near future - and they provide registered names of the dam and sire. There are many puppies available and a few of the breeders have been mentioned here as being reputable.

Litter Announcements on Poodles Online.com


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

Thank you all for your support and advice. A hot shower and good cry cleared my head a little. Sorry for being so needy. It just seems that once I recovered from the death of my 16-year-old cat and started looking for a dog, I've had nothing but heartbreak. 

The breeder in question was recommended by another, local breeder who seems to be reputable, maybe not perfect, but above average. She knew what I was looking for and specifically suggested this breeder / breeding indicating that the temperaments of the sire and dam were compatible with my lifestyle and likely to have equally compatible pups. 

I think I'll give the breeder another day and then contact her to see what's going on. I keep thinking the worst (miscarriage, stillbirths, etc), but typically my fears are far from reality.

I have some good breeders on my list if this doesn't work out: Cabryn, ParrisHill, Alexander, Farleys D, and now City Lights.

Thanks again.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

*Cookieface *~
You have _nothing _to apologize for! Nothing at all. We've all been there and we can all relate. I know in my heart you'll find your poodle, and will soon be sharing adorable puppy pictures with the rest of us. :biggrin:


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

cookieface,  I've been thinking of you. I can tell how much love you have to give a new poodle, and I want so much for you to find that special baby. I hope you are considering the offers of assistance by the members here who can help, because you deserve the joy a poodle can bring as much as anybody else. Please keep us posted


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_Hi Cookieface. How is your search going?

I am very surprised that a highly recommended breeder has failed to provide you with all of the information that you are seeking since you are very interested in a puppy from this litter. There are ways to keep people informed. If not by email/web site; certainly by phone.

Dianne and I put a photo of the dam and stud on our web site with a ling to their pedigree page and tests available so people can see that right off. We update when there is conformation of pregnancy. We announce the birth and post photos the first week after the litter is born and continue posting photos of their development until they are homed. 

We have a puppy questionnaire that we direct prospective buyers to as soon as we are contacted. Within a couple of days of receiving the questionnaire, we contact the prospective buyer to discuss anything that they may have questions about and to ask any questions we may have of them. Sometimes we do this through email, but we prefer phone calls as they are more personal. If they are approved, they go onto our puppy buyer list in the order that they contacted us with the exception of show prospects. One of the first things everyone asks us is about the temperament of the parents. 

We match our puppies to the needs of the person/persons requesting a puppy. We have a meeting with that person/family to see how the initial meeting goes. If all goes well, the puppy is sold into their new forever home.

We always make ourselves available during the entire process to those who need to have questions answered or need reassurance. Getting a puppy is a big step for some people. The relationship between client and breeder needs to be one of trust. To have trust, you need to get to know each other. 

In my opinion, the registered name of the dam and stud should be available right away. A client should be able to go to the poodle registry to look at their pedigrees. They should also be able to go to PHR to see if there have been any health issues in their lines that they need to be aware of. They should also have some way to access testing that has been completed on the dogs. A client should have this information in order to make an informed decision as to wether or not they want to commit to purchase a puppy from that breeding.

I have a hard time understanding why a breeder would not provide you with the basic information at least so that you can look at the pedigrees, etc. I am surprised that you have not mentioned a puppy questionnaire. Where you not required to submit one? This is the first thing that we use to decide whether we will sell a puppy to a prospective owner. 

There just doesn't seem to be a proper process here that lets the client and the breeder know where they stand. That would make me uncomfortable. 

It seems to me that you have been bending over backward to do the right thing but are not getting satisfactory responses from the breeder; to the point of stressing you so much that you cried. I say it is time to move on and look for a puppy from a breeder who does things the right way. You need to be as comfortable with you puppies breeder as they are with you.

You have been given some good leads here. I am sure that they will eventually lead you to the puppy of your dreams. A good puppy from a good breeder is well worth waiting for. Don't give up. Not all breeders are like the one you are dealing with; thank goodness._


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

Thank you all again for your support, advice, and kind words. Last night I heard from the breeder that there are no puppies (no details about what happened). On a more positive note, I have been given several recommendations for other breeders who may either have pups in the near future or who can direct me to someone who does. (Please know, that I'm not just looking for someone with cute puppies now. I want to support a breeder with standards consistent my values, but I don't necessarily want to wait another year. It's all about balance.)

I do want to say that I don't think the original breeder is necessarily a "bad breeder" in the sense of some I've read about. Perhaps our different expectations were part of a generational gap. I've commented in a few private messages that she reminds me of an old time doctor who advises his patients to let him do the worrying. She was recommended by someone I've heard only positive comments about and who I would have qualms about buying from (if only they had the right color).


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

cookieface said:


> Thank you all again for your support, advice, and kind words. Last night I heard from the breeder that there are no puppies (no details about what happened). On a more positive note, I have been given several recommendations for other breeders who may either have pups in the near future or who can direct me to someone who does. (Please know, that I'm not just looking for someone with cute puppies now. I want to support a breeder with standards consistent my values, but I don't necessarily want to wait another year. It's all about balance.)
> 
> I do want to say that I don't think the original breeder is necessarily a "bad breeder" in the sense of some I've read about. Perhaps our different expectations were part of a generational gap. I've commented in a few private messages that she reminds me of an old time doctor who advises his patients to let him do the worrying. She was recommended by someone I've heard only positive comments about and who I would have qualms about buying from (if only they had the right color).



Hhhmmm, I wonder if *Spoospirit *has any puppies available!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Never mind. Wrong thread.


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

Rowan said:


> Hhhmmm, I wonder if *Spoospirit *has any puppies available!


I shouldn't have looked :sad:


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