# Harness or Collar?



## maddogdodge

Collar's will always be my preference. I really don't like harnesses!

My 15 week old Std Poodle currently walks on a flat collar. He's just started pulling a bit, but we start obedience next week so hopefully we can get that under control.

My Australian Shepherd is a different story. As a youngster he was shocking at pulling on lead, I tried a harness, that made things worse... In general normal harnesses make it easier for a dog to pull on lead. I tried a martingale collar, that made no difference. My saviour with him was a Halti head collar, that worked fantastic, he doesn't need it now days, he walks nicely next to me.

He does have reactivity issues though so to aid in his training I now walk him on a brass check chain. He heels most of the time but the check chain is good for quick corrections when he's reacting to something, works well. Check chains are an amazing tool when used correctly... they're not designed to choke a dog to stop them pulling on lead, they're designed for quick corrections or 'checks' hence the name.


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## MiniPoo

I tried teaching mini Dakota to heel properly last year and it was a total bust. I almost stopped walking him altogether. For a while I used both a halter and an adjustable neck collar. The idea was to let him pull when using the halter and have him heel by my side with the neck collar. I just didn't have the patience to make it work.

What I ended up doing is using a no-pull harness which connects to the leash with a loop in front of the chest. That seemed to work pretty good. My idea was to not give him an opportunity to pull and then swich to a neck collar.

I am starting a new 8-wk obedience class on Sunday. I am going to use a martingale collar and practice walking him in the house and backyard where there is minimal distraction. I will use the no-pull harness sometimes on sidewalks if he still pulls with the martingale. He is older now. Maybe it will work this time.


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## Viking Queen

Iris pulled, A LOT, when she was a youngster. My experience with other dogs is that in general, harness do encourage a dog to pull. I would walk Iris with a flat collar and later with a Gentle leader head halter. When used properly the work like a charm. I was lucky enough to attend a seminar with the man, Veterinarian, who invented the Gentle leader. We got expert advice on how to fit them properly, which is key to how well they work, and a demo on how to use it properly. It took about 4 days for us to get the hang of it and within a couple of months we no longer needed it. I did drag it out occasionally and use it if she needed a little reminder. It was a lifesaver as I was having a serious medical issue with my right hand and arm and it was painful and did not have much strength. Even though my medical problem has been fixed, that was magical, I will use the gentle leader for my next pup.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Viking Queen


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## FireStorm

I use a harness for Hans, but he doesn't pull so the leash is only there in case something unforeseen happens. Ever since he was a puppy, he'd gag with only a little pressure on his neck so I thought the harness was a better option.


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## twyla

I use both a collar and a easy walk harness clipped together on the leash for my younger toys, Beatrice both pulls and has the trachea issue since I did that with her I followed suit with skiddish Pia. Flower my old toy will only walk with a harness on, that's what she knew when she came to at age 6. Baby was my only toy that walked like a dream with a collar on.


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## Dechi

For toys I prefer a harness. Their tracheas are smaller and it's easy to damage them. Even with a little bit of pulling, in the long run it might hurt them.

So harness for my toy. If I had a standard, I would use a collar. I always have with my bigger dogs.


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## MiniPoo

The Gentle Leader or Halti head harnesses are very effective and I have used them in the past for a dog that walked fine on a leash but he wanted to jump up on children because he was so excited to see them. I could take him to a park to meet children with a Gentle Leader and he was totally safe.

The drawback on a head harness is you have to be very obersvant with an energetic dog that jumps around a lot. If you pull on leash and the tab of the head harness is not positioned correctly, you could hurt the dog's neck. That is why I do not use it for Dakota.

The easy walk no-pull harness does not hurt the puppy's neck. That is one reason I am using it with Dakota now.

Whatever we use for them as a puppy we can eventually wean them off when they get older and calm down.


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## zooeysmom

I only walk our toy dogs in regular harnesses--they are 10 lbs. and under, so pulling isn't an issue. 

Maizie goes in an Easy Walk harness or flat collar depending on her energy level. I LOVE the Easy Walk for dogs that pull. It is accepted right away, humane, doesn't interfere with training, and solves the pulling problem! I'm surprised that so few people here use them because they're really great. They're allowed for the CGC test too.


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## Poodlebeguiled

I use Puppia https://www.chewy.com/dog/puppia-red-soft-dog-harness-medium/dp/121578 harnesses for my dogs, occasionally a collar. They have been taught not to pull the same way I've taught my other dogs not to pull if on a collar. I HATE pulling. So, if they create one second of tension in the lead, the walk stops. They give me slack, the walk continues. Period. End of discussion. So, there is no encouragement to pull no matter what they're wearing. 

I like harnesses on tiny dogs because their necks, tracheas etc are so fragile. If they do lunge or something happens where I have to yank them back...like something dangerous is about to happen, I like the harness. 

These harnesses are soft, comfortable. Just like a collar, they must make a good fit so they can't slip out.


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## lily cd re

Collars for walking and at obedience, rally and agility. Harnesses of one type are for car restraint and harnesses of another type are for tracking. The tracking harnesses are only for tracking and signal that pulling on the lead is the right thing to do.


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## MiniPoo

zooeysmom said:


> Maizie goes in an Easy Walk harness or flat collar depending on her energy level. I LOVE the Easy Walk for dogs that pull. It is accepted right away, humane, doesn't interfere with training, and solves the pulling problem! I'm surprised that so few people here use them because they're really great. They're allowed for the CGC test too.


I did not know the Easy Walk was allowed for the CGC test. I think I will take it to class tonight along with a Martingale collar and see what the instructor says. I do believe it is an effective training tool.


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## SusanG

When Callie was puppy, she pulled so badly she would choke and gag and no amount of training worked, even classes. She would walk at heel well in the house or in training - but outside - pull pull no matter what I did. I finally put a web harness on her so she wouldn't destroy her throat. It isn't the best idea to use for training because they learn they can pull because it doesn't hurt. I wish I hadn't!
Now I only use it for those times I take her to the park or around the campground and walk her on the hills and trails on a flexi-leash. She knows she can run where she wants then and amazingly, she knows exactly when to stop before she hits the end of the flexi. I also use that set up in the yard for playtime, chasing a ball, etc.
For walking in public, down town, I have to use a control harness which has the loop in the front. That way I can control her and she knows she can't pull. I use that for Molly also because she wants to greet every person and dog she sees.
But for taking a walk around the block, tight places, stores, etc I always use a nylon collar and short leash. Both dogs know a collar and short leash mean slow walk and no pulling. They still "try me" over and over, so each time they pull I stop short and say "come back" and we don't move until they come back to me. You would think after years Callie would give in and stop pulling ahead, but she still won't
Both are better walked separately on the short lead. Walking both dogs together though, they try to take advantage of me. Since I don't have time to walk each separately we spend a lot of the walk with me stopping and standing still.
Poodles can be very stubborn.
So, bottom line - I'd try training exclusively with a collar to establish good habits right from the start. If you don't have to use a harness, don't, unless it is only for certain times and places like playtime and your dog knows it is only for that.
I get really mad at my husband because he will put the harness on and let her pull on the short leash and it gives her a mixed message and undoes what I have done!


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## AngelAviary

I use a collar and Stella does not pull. She has been in training since I got her as a 4 month old. I wont use a harness for a couple reasons. Except in the car to buckle them in.
Harness will matt a long coat, Anywhere the material touches will rub and rubbing causes long hair to matt. Also it seems that harnesses almost seem to trigger a dog to pull harder. Every dog is different but Ive seen dogs that pull on a collar, pull harder on the harness. I train her in a very thin snake link training collar (choke chain, but they don't choke if used correctly) that we used in Conformation shows, so when she needs a correction it wont damage her neck/mane hair. She also walks in a martingale soft collar made by WhitePine Outfitters. She does not wear a collar at other times at all due to her coat. 
Its what works for her. 
MiniPoo I don't know if you can use a harness (of any kind) for the CGC, it will be interesting to hear what you are told.


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## Poodlebeguiled

https://youtu.be/RBtI6uSb-EE

Here's Matisse walking on a loose leash, kids and all. *Harness*. Maurice doesn't pull either.


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## zooeysmom

Poodlebeguiled said:


> https://youtu.be/RBtI6uSb-EE
> 
> Here's Matisse walking on a loose leash, kids and all. *Harness*. Maurice doesn't pull either.


OMG, Matisse is so adorable! What a gentleman.


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## zooeysmom

AngelAviary said:


> Also it seems that harnesses almost seem to trigger a dog to pull harder. Every dog is different but Ive seen dogs that pull on a collar, pull harder on the harness.
> 
> *Not the Easy Walk harness! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7gzfgVjkSQ*
> 
> 
> MiniPoo I don't know if you can use a harness (of any kind) for the CGC, it will be interesting to hear what you are told.


*You sure can  I did it with Maizie. You just can't use an anti-jumping harness. I just took this quick video of Maizie loose leash walking to show that she can walk well without the harness, thanks to using the harness. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSros8EEsqU

I totally agree that everyone should use the equipment they're comfortable with. I simply can't use a prong or choke collar. I don't judge others who use them correctly. *


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## marialydia

truth be told, Pericles still needs to wear both a martingale and an easy walk harness, with one of those leashes that has two clips. 

He is still reactive when we see dogs on a walk, especially if they start barking at him. People also have a tendency to come up to us all excited, telling me how gorgeous he is, etc. etc. which still gets him worked up. so the double attachment helps. 

In the slightly more urban areas where we walk, even with sidewalks, there are squirrels, deer, and rabbits abundant. Neighbors report coyotes and fox and although I have not seen any, Pericles surely smells them. We are working on heeling, "leaving it", and walking mindfully, but we are far from perfect. I am beyond impressed with your videos, poodlebeguiled and zooeysmom. 

If we go walking in the woods, I let the leash go long on the collar and that works fine.


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## Poodlebeguiled

zooeysmom said:


> *You sure can  I did it with Maizie. You just can't use an anti-jumping harness. I just took this quick video of Maizie loose leash walking to show that she can walk well without the harness, thanks to using the harness.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSros8EEsqU
> 
> I totally agree that everyone should use the equipment they're comfortable with. I simply can't use a prong or choke collar. I don't judge others who use them correctly. *


Awww...thanks Zooeysmom and Marialydia...He and Maurice have both turned into little gentlemen after a whirlwind puppy hood...just such nice dogs. 

And your darling Maizie! She walks so nicely too...a princess she is! :adore:


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## Poodlebeguiled

SusanG said:


> When Callie was puppy, she pulled so badly she would choke and gag and no amount of training worked, even classes. She would walk at heel well in the house or in training - but outside - pull pull no matter what I did. I finally put a web harness on her so she wouldn't destroy her throat. It isn't the best idea to use for training because they learn they can pull because it doesn't hurt. I wish I hadn't!
> Now I only use it for those times I take her to the park or around the campground and walk her on the hills and trails on a flexi-leash. She knows she can run where she wants then and amazingly, she knows exactly when to stop before she hits the end of the flexi. I also use that set up in the yard for playtime, chasing a ball, etc.
> For walking in public, down town, I have to use a control harness which has the loop in the front. That way I can control her and she knows she can't pull. I use that for Molly also because she wants to greet every person and dog she sees.
> But for taking a walk around the block, tight places, stores, etc I always use a nylon collar and short leash. Both dogs know a collar and short leash mean slow walk and no pulling. *They still "try me" over and over, so each time they pull I stop short and say "come back" and we don't move until they come back to me. You would think after years Callie would give in and stop pulling ahead, but she still won't*
> Both are better walked separately on the short lead. Walking both dogs together though, they try to take advantage of me. Since I don't have time to walk each separately we spend a lot of the walk with me stopping and standing still.
> Poodles can be very stubborn.
> So, bottom line - I'd try training exclusively with a collar to establish good habits right from the start. If you don't have to use a harness, don't, unless it is only for certain times and places like playtime and your dog knows it is only for that.
> I get really mad at my husband because he will put the harness on and let her pull on the short leash and it gives her a mixed message and undoes what I have done!


What's happened is they have created a behavior chain. They have interpreted it to mean that stopping, coming back to you and then getting to pull ahead IS the routine...the behavior you want. It goes together this pulling, stopping, coming back, then pulling, stopping, coming back. That_ Is_ the behavior and you inadvertently trained them. It is very common and can happen easily. This is why dogs pull. They learn that it's part and parcel of getting to take a walk. 

What I'd suggest if you want to train them to walk nicely on a loose leash is to practice with no leash at all in a safe, low distraction area. At other times, when on a leash VARY what you do a little bit. Go ahead and stop like you've been doing sometimes, but not every time. Change it up. Mix it up. Surprise them with things that won't pay off by pulling. Take quick turns, go, stop, go stop, sitting each time they stop. Teach watch me and ask for that periodically. Make loads of zig zags so they never know what's going to happen. Walk a short way, put a treat down near your shoe on the ground so they learn that reinforcement happens when they stay near your feet or your side. Reinforce more frequently with a higher value treat. You can use a squeaky toy to help keep interest high. Your dogs need to learn to give you more attention...more focus as a team. Rewards can be getting to go sniff something or investigate something of interest. After all, we like our walks to be fun for the dogs as well as for us.

Anyhow, when people say they've tried everything and done what they've heard works and still the dogs pull, there's always a reason. It's not that training doesn't work. It did work. Very well in fact. lol. But it wasn't what you meant to train.


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## blueroan

We started Dusty off on a harness and when he grew older we switched to the collar for walks. I did use a gentle leader as he was very bad with lunging at dogs or occasionally people and this helped a lot with him not choking (and a harness wouldn't have done a thing). He was so bad at it he would lunge and literally flip himself over backwards when he hit the end of the harness or leash. Ack!!!

We'll likely do the same programme for Honey, only right now the harness is too big haha  She needs to gain another pound or so for it to fit! But for now we're only in our backyard so her collar will do just fine for now. She's too young for walks anyway.


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## SusanG

I'll give it a try. I'm open to anything to stop the pulling as long as it doesn't hurt them.


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## Muggles

I started Rory off on a no-pull harness as a puppy (the sporn one - 
http://sporn.com/training/yup-original-sporn-halter/). 
It worked well but was a hand me down from my sister's dog and I couldn't find it locally to get a bigger size when he outgrew it. We then moved onto the Halti no pull harness. 

He didn't really need it by the time he was about 6 months. Since sometime around then he's walked pretty nicely on a collar though we still use a harness in the car. Here is a little video of him this afternoon with a lovely check in with me. 

While he is great for me, if my parents look after him they like to have better control (and he isn't as well behaved with his grandparents!) so I have recently bought a new harness mostly for them, though I do use it if we're going someone with lots of people to help give extra control. I really like it because it is three separate pieces available in lots of sizes making it much easier to fit a poodle's unique proportions. It might be easier in the US but I had really struggled finding harnesses to fit Rory's deep chest and narrow shoulders! I bought it from here if anyone's interested. http://www.dog-games-shop.co.uk/. 









Edit: ugh the video link is being weird and linking to the wrong thing!
vimeo.com/161606881


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## CurlyChris

Caniche said:


> For simple walking down the road, does everyone prefer a harness or collar? If so, which kind and how big is your poodle? And does your poodle have any walking issues (such as pulling, dog reactive, etc.?)


There's a lot if good information on collar vs harness being posted already on this thread. I went with a harness for my dog and found some useful information here to help me decide which to go for:

The Pros and Cons of Different Dog Harnesses

Hope that helps.


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## SusanG

Very helpful site. Thank you.
I have less trouble with pulling when daily walking each dog separately (and of course, I don't have much time to do that) They are more "enthusiastic" together so I spend a lot of time stopping and calling them back when they pull. Molly is much better than Callie who has been a puller from day one (very very stubborn!)
I use a collar and 6 ft leash when taking them for walks around our neighborhood, an easy walk harness when walking around stores and public places. They know they must walk nicely (mostly!) in a collar and short leash but still need reminding.
I only use the Four Paws harnesses and flexi-leash when playing in the yard, or roaming the park in fields and hills. They know they can have the freedom to run ahead of me and around, sniff, etc only when they have those harnesses on.


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## lily cd re

I looked at the blog post linked to above and see a couple of things that people should really make note of in it. First back clip harnesses do little to deal with pulling. Next front clip harnesses are not sufficient for aggressive dog issues many times. Lastly "tightening" harnesses (Easy Walk and Freedom No Pull) can cause pain to the dog.

I still believe that teaching a dog to walk politely on a loose leash attached to a collar is very doable and preferable most of the time, but the context specific and careful use of a harness as described by SusanG can be important too. I use a harness and flexi for exercising dogs when we travel as SusanG described for her dogs.

Ironically my dogs know that when their tracking harnesses (only used while tracking) are on they are supposed to pull as hard as they want. The AKC tracking rules are specific that harnesses used for tracking must be non-restrictive to the dog's movement. Properly fit they are a bit loose so the dog can lean into and against the harness.


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle uses a Walk Your Dog With Love harness. It attaches in the front, is up high above her shoulders. Once I got it, my training her to walk on a leash began to mean something to her, because when she pulls, she circles back to me automatically. 

I view this as only temporary because I plan on transitioning her to a regular buckle collar when she's ready.


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## MollyMuiMa

When Molly was a puppy the very first collar I got was a harness (the puppia type) and I had to switch to a regular flat collar because the minute I put the harness on her she would 'shut down' as if she had a thunder shirt on! That's when I started making her collars....either the poodleit type or martingale. She is not a puller and will naturally slow down or stop the minute she feels her leash going taunt.....I was lucky......she has loose leash walked since she was a pup! 

She outgrew the 'shutting down' and now I can put anythng on her with no problem but I prefer martingales and flat buckle type collars.


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## NorskiePete

*Martingale and flat*

I use a Martingale on my younger dog (10 mos.). He is already <60 lbs and we are working hard on not pulling (NO tolerance for that). The Martingale tightens in a way that is uncomfortable, but does not fully choke or bind in the hair. My opinion is that it is not to punish, but to train. The tightening is a reminder -- "Oh, that's right, I'm not supposed to be pulling. SQUIRREL!!"

My older dog is almost 4 and is really good with the flat collar. However, it has been a lot of work and training to restrain the pulling. There were a lot of walks where there was not much ground covered as we would stop every time he would pull!


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