# Miami question



## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

Glad this topic is here. I'm thinking of a Miami for Penny this summer and I too would like to know pom pom size and where on the leg should the top of the pom pom start.

Rick


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

It really depends on the structure/conformation of the dog. Usually they start right above the hock bone on the rear legs and you match the front to those to create better balance.


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## Raven's Mom (Mar 18, 2014)

Thanks for the pictures. I think I was leaving the fur too long and making the poms too high on the leg. Raven is a fairly big boned spoo for a female but otherwise fairly square.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Raven's Mom said:


> Thanks for the pictures. I think I was leaving the fur too long and making the poms too high on the leg. Raven is a fairly big boned spoo for a female but otherwise fairly square.


Actually, the bracelets in that photo above are set a little too far down on the front legs. Rule of thumb on a standard is that you should start by setting the bracelets at about 3 fingers above the ankle joint. For the rear legs, start at 2 fingers above the hock. Angle your fingers down so that the highest point is 2 fingers above the actual hock joint on the back of the leg and it is lower on the front of the hind leg. Also, the front bracelets should always be set slightly higher than the rear bracelets.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Bracelets don't have to be left this full, but the set of the bracelets is correct. He had just finished his Grand Ch. title and had been cut down out of his continental trim.


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## princesspenny (Feb 16, 2015)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Bracelets don't have to be left this full, but the set of the bracelets is correct. He had just finished his Grand Ch. title and had been cut down out of his continental trim.


love the blue


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## deemarie03 (Jul 7, 2014)

I am so glad to know this. I put Jaxon in a Miami several months ago and I see now that I probably did it wrong. I thought the front and back legs should be about the same so that's what I've been trying to do. I'd love to know the reason why the back legs are angled at the hock and not just shaped straight across like the bracelets. And why the bracelets are left taller than the back, why not both the same. Sorry for the silly questions, but just wondering...

One more thing, what's the best way to make it look neat and tidy where the bracelets/poms meet the leg?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

deemarie03 said:


> I am so glad to know this. I put Jaxon in a Miami several months ago and I see now that I probably did it wrong. I thought the front and back legs should be about the same so that's what I've been trying to do. I'd love to know the reason why the back legs are angled at the hock and not just shaped straight across like the bracelets. And why the bracelets are left taller than the back, why not both the same. Sorry for the silly questions, but just wondering...
> 
> One more thing, what's the best way to make it look neat and tidy where the bracelets/poms meet the leg?


The reason for the top of the front bracelets being slightly higher than the rear bracelets, and the reason for the angle on the rear bracelets, is that it is more visually pleasing. The highest point of the rear bracelets (back of hock) should be at the same level or slightly lower than the top of the front bracelets. The front of the rear bracelets will be lower. It is more pleasing to the eye to see a dog that appears to be uphill, with well let down hocks. Also, the angle of the rear bracelets enhances rear angulation.


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

Good info here and thanks for the pics. Very helpful. Penny gonna be sportin' the Miami soon.

Rick


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## loves (Jul 2, 2013)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CYZQkPu4C0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Anx022zAEAg

Two videos on poodles. First is Sue Zecco, love her, and she mainly shows how to set bracelets on the rear. The other is a complete Miami trim, showing it all from start to finish.

Should shed some light on the subject for ya.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

loves said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CYZQkPu4C0
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Anx022zAEAg
> 
> ...


Absolutely love Sue Zecco's videos!!

Don't know who did that second video, but they **totally** butchered the placement of the bracelets. Also - I can't get over the crappy blowout they gave the poodle!!! ��


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Absolutely love Sue Zecco's videos!!
> 
> Don't know who did that second video, but they **totally** butchered the placement of the bracelets. Also - I can't get over the crappy blowout they gave the poodle!!! ��


Do you know of any Miami clip videos that you would recommend? That Spoo was very well behaved.

Rick


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## loves (Jul 2, 2013)

CharismaticMillie, did you watch the second video? The dog was preclipped before bath, matting was mentioned in the bracelet area along with cutting some out, and the heat and a ban on dryers also mentioned as it was 89 in Britain when the video was shot.

So, while not up to your standards, it just show how to groom a Spoo in a Miami. And I've never heard of front bracelets being higher than rear. Every picture, critique I've ever seen always mentions keeping bracelets equal in height.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

loves said:


> CharismaticMillie, did you watch the second video? The dog was preclipped before bath, matting was mentioned in the bracelet area along with cutting some out, and the heat and a ban on dryers also mentioned as it was 89 in Britain when the video was shot.
> 
> So, while not up to your standards, it just show how to groom a Spoo in a Miami. And I've never heard of front bracelets being higher than rear. Every picture, critique I've ever seen always mentions keeping bracelets equal in height.


I did actually watch the video! . Obviously they used a dryer of some sort on the dog - I took it that a heat dryer just cannot be used. You can do everything you need to fluff dry a poodle in a short trim using a force dryer. Are they saying they can't even use a force dryer?

And - the lady **did** set the front bracelets too low. Since the OP asked if there was a rule about setting bracelets, I wanted to make sure she knew that there is a rule and that way they are set in the video isn't correct. But that doesn't mean it's not still a good video for some other aspects of setting a Miami pattern. 

The top of the front bracelets should line up with the highest point of the rear bracelets. The bracelets should be angled down so that the front of the rear bracelets is lower than the front bracelets. Never should the rear bracelets be higher than the front bracelets.


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## Axeldog (Aug 29, 2014)

C-Millie
I have been following this discussion and out of curiosity and just did a google image search of spoos. In almost all the photos I saw, the bracelets are placed as you describe. 

So interesting! It is something that I have never noticed in my years of admiring show -groomed dogs.


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## loves (Jul 2, 2013)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Actually, the bracelets in that photo above are set a little too far down on the front legs. Rule of thumb on a standard is that you should start by setting the bracelets at about 3 fingers above the ankle joint. For the rear legs, start at 2 fingers above the hock. Angle your fingers down so that the highest point is 2 fingers above the actual hock joint on the back of the leg and it is lower on the front of the hind leg. Also, the front bracelets should always be set slightly higher than the rear bracelets.


There it is "the front bracelets should always be set slightly higher than the rear bracelets". And yes her front bracelets were lower than the rear, but there was matting that she choose to cut out. As for dryers, I have no idea what they could/couldn't use, it is in England where obviously one doesnt have air conditioning.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

loves said:


> There it is "the front bracelets should always be set slightly higher than the rear bracelets". And yes her front bracelets were lower than the rear, but there was matting that she choose to cut out. As for dryers, I have no idea what they could/couldn't use, it is in England where obviously one doesnt have air conditioning.



But you see, regardless of the reason why they are set wrong, they are wrong, and therefore not a good example of what bracelets should look like. 

Yes, rear bracelets *are* supposed to be lower than front bracelets except for the back end which is angled higher and in line with the top of the front bracelets. 

I'm not a professional groomer but I have had hands on lessons with a professional poodle show handler/groomer explaining exactly how to set bracelets. I thought it would be helpful to share.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

The reason the front bracelets are set slightly higher than the rear is that it gives the illusion that the dog is walking somewhat 'up hill', which looks more elegant and pleasing. It doesn't have to be dramatically so, CM isn't saying to do it like 5 inches higher, two finger widths or even one outta do it.

Just passing along some info from a seminar I attended that Chris Bailey, breeder of London aka Jaset's Satisfaction, did when cutting a standard puppy into her CC.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

loves said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CYZQkPu4C0
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Anx022zAEAg
> 
> ...


And oh dear, yes the front bracelets on the second video are set much too low. Use this video as a guide, but I wouldn't say follow it completely, those front bracelets need to come up.


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## Tuffcookie (Dec 22, 2010)

Gracie is in the Miami clip. I just love how the bracelets give her a girlie look! :angel2: Her groomer modified the bracelets so they are not really round but look more like bell-bottoms. I love the way they look!



Cindy


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

I really like that. Any pics standing and from the side? I'd love to see those if you have them.

Rick


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## Tuffcookie (Dec 22, 2010)

Rick, I took her outside just now and got a side view:




Cindy


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

Thanks. Looks great. I think I'm going to Miami-ize Penny for the summer. Which blade did you use on the body, legs and underside?

Rick


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## Tuffcookie (Dec 22, 2010)

Her groomer uses the #15 on face, & tail, #10 on sanitary, neck, and the feet, I believe, and a #5 on the body.

Her groomer is quitting her business at the end of the month due to health reasons and she has been showing me how to do it.

I have ordered an Andis AGC clipper (comes with a #10 blade) and a #15 & #5 blades, and in addition I ordered an Oster trimmer for the feet. Her groomer gave me a pair of shears but I'm sure I'll need another pair. Now if Gracie will just cooperate! LOL

I'm glad her former groomer will be waiting in the wings for advice, should I have any questions.

Cindy


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

Gonna try this this weekend. Since I don't have a blow dryer I bathe her on Saturday, towel dry, do a lot of woking around the neighborhood then clip on Sunday. I'll take some before and after pics.

Rick


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

One of my girls in Miami for the summer. . I wasn't done grooming her yet but the pattern was set. 

Eta: huh, turned crooked during upload. Added from my iPhone and no clue how to fix that!


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## Raven's Mom (Mar 18, 2014)

She is so pretty  Her ears are so long, do you have to keep them pinned up so that they don't get in the food/water? I just trimmed Ravens because they were getting dirty on the ends. Wasn't sure what else to do with them.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I take a pair of socks and cut the top off and put it over their head to hold ears back while they eat. The set and hold their head up for me to put one, not problem, and really works


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Raven's Mom said:


> She is so pretty  Her ears are so long, do you have to keep them pinned up so that they don't get in the food/water? I just trimmed Ravens because they were getting dirty on the ends. Wasn't sure what else to do with them.


Thanks!! I had not trimmed her ears yet when I took the photo. Probably shortened them 1/2-1 inch. I do snood her for meals and bully sticks. . I don't worry about water though.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I had Bella with Bell bottoms for about 6 years, the reason I did it, was if I had to cut it was only around the bottom, I still can not make pomp-pomps round. I always told all the groomers leave her in bell bottoms. Then the one that messed up her anal gland, cut them off. I ask her why she did that, she said, "now that you have me you do not need to trim her I can handle all that". Man was I mad. It took along time to get the top of the bell bottom the come down just above her feet. Plus when you blow them straight and they run it is adorable they way the bell bottome fly in the wind


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

Ok, here she is. Don't laugh, she gets her feelings hurt if you laugh.

Here's the before.










And the after.










Both the front and rear bracelets look a little high to me but I'm not sure.

Rick


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## Axeldog (Aug 29, 2014)

Awww! Pretty Penny looks cute! 

I am not, by any means an expert, but I think her bracelets are a little high. But that's OK! It's easy to fix if they are too high. Not easy to fix if they were too low!

Nice work. I bet Penny likes it too.


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

Thanks, I'm thinking they're about an inch or so too high also.


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## Suddenly (Aug 8, 2013)

She looks just fabulous!! Love her bracelets. Great job!??


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