# Congestive Heart Failure



## Petitpie'sDH

My little Oreo is 14 1/2 and was recently put on medication for CHF. She wasn't coughing or anything, but the vet says even though it is mild at this point, she needs to stay on the medication for the rest of her life. She is on "furosimide", 1/2 of a tab twice a day. She is a toy and weighs 9 lbs. She seems to be doing very well on it so far, but it has only been about a month and a half. Previously we had another toy poodle, Sugar, who was on medication for CHF for the last couple of years of her life. She made it to about 15. My impression, based on this limited experience, is that the medications are pretty effective at controlling the condition and add a considerable amount of time to their lives.


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## Tiny Poodles

Petitpie'sDH said:


> My little Oreo is 14 1/2 and was recently put on medication for CHF. She wasn't coughing or anything, but the vet says even though it is mild at this point, she needs to stay on the medication for the rest of her life. She is on "furosimide", 1/2 of a tab twice a day. She is a toy and weighs 9 lbs. She seems to be doing very well on it so far, but it has only been about a month and a half. Previously we had another toy poodle, Sugar, who was on medication for CHF for the last couple of years of her life. She made it to about 15. My impression, based on this limited experience, is that the medications are pretty effective at controlling the condition and add a considerable amount of time to their lives.


Thanks, so much - that makes me feel much better!
If you don't mind my asking - if Oreo was not coughing, what were they symptoms? Have you had ultrasounds done?


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## Petitpie'sDH

The vet had identified a heart murmur earlier on, and in connection with a surgery that Oreo had to have for obstructed anal glands, did x-rays and also listened to her heart and lungs.


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## NorthJerseyGirrl

My first toypoo had CHF and my experience was similar to that of Petitpie's DH. She was on furosemide, a diuretic, for at least two years, maybe longer, and made it to past 15. Unfortunately, I can't remember what the initial symptoms were, I just remember it was an emergency in the middle of the night (of course) that took us to the Animal Emergency Center in Manhattan. We thought she would die then, but no, she had a lot of good time left.

ETA: She did cough a lot and it was very worrisome, but I have never known whether that was related to the heart condition or was just reverse sneezing. One of my present toypoos does it too occasionally. I had her heart X-rayed early on for that reason, but there is nothing wrong with it. So I am assuming it is reverse sneezing.


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## katbrat

Our toy poodle was diagnosed with a grade one heart murmur when she was about three. It was found when we ran a base line workup before we had her teeth cleaned. She never had a cough or anything. She was six pounds her entire life. She was put on medication when it hit grade two at around ten years old. She did really well on it. We had yearly x-rays done and blood panels to keep an eye on it.


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## Tiny Poodles

NorthJerseyGirrl said:


> My first toypoo had CHF and my experience was similar to that of Petitpie's DH. She was on furosemide, a diuretic, for at least two years, maybe longer, and made it to past 15. Unfortunately, I can't remember what the initial symptoms were, I just remember it was an emergency in the middle of the night (of course) that took us to the Animal Emergency Center in Manhattan. We thought she would die then, but no, she had a lot of good time left.
> 
> ETA: She did cough a lot and it was very worrisome, but I have never known whether that was related to the heart condition or was just reverse sneezing. One of my present toypoos does it too occasionally. I had her heart X-rayed early on for that reason, but there is nothing wrong with it. So I am assuming it is reverse sneezing.


Thanks for the info (by the way, you probably meant The Animal Medical Center)
Reverse sneezing sounds completely different then coughing - it's more like sharp, forces inhalations then a cough. Tangee is doing like 4 or 5 coughs followed by a little retch, like she is trying to get something out of her throat. Taylee (who had a grade 2-3 in her latter years) used to do the exact same cough (but the ultrasounds showed that the murmur was well compensated for, and she never went on any meds, so I assumed that Taylee's cough was allergy related).
I am surprised that none of your Vet's did ultrasounds though - it was actually the Dermatologist at the AMC who first heard the heart murmur on Taylee (we were a bit surprised that she went from none, to grade 2-3 in a period of 4 months), she saw the cardiologist the next day for the ultrasound, so I thought that was the first thing that they did with a new murmur?


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## Rusty

Our mini poodle, Rusty, had CHF. He was diagnosed at about 16 years old, maybe 15.5. The "heart cough" had been going on for some time before that, probably a year or so, but at the time we didn't recognise it for what it was. Now, we recognise the sound of that cough in dogs and people... it sounds the same and, after living with it, it's tough to mistake for anything else. But before that, Rusty had different, congenital throat problems that made him cough when eating/drinking, so we didn't differentiate the heart cough from his "normal" cough. In retrospect, as I said, it had a more distinctive sound, and, interestingly, was worst at night, not during/after exercise. Our vet noticed it when he was in for his annual check-up, as he did the heart cough when she was exerting gentle pressure on his throat/chest. We immediately put him on enalapril at the maximum dosage for his weight. Our vet said that, in her experience, starting at the maximum dose worked best for most of her patients. The enalapril made a HUGE difference for Rusty. He went from being very, very slow on his walks and sleeping the rest of the time to being a bit more spritely on his walks and actually going back to running after squeaky toys and such. Our condo neighbours at the time even commented on the difference in his demeanour (for the better). The heart cough at night nearly stopped. After 8 months - 1 year of being on enalapril, the coughing worsened again, and our vet suggested we add Vetmedin to the protocol. That medication made another big, positive difference for Rusty, but was also more expensive. Neither medication was a diuretic, which was great, and both were very helpful in maintaining quality of life.

Rusty passed away at 17.5 years old, about 1.5 - 2 years after he'd been diagnosed with CHF, but probably closer to 3 years after he'd first started showing symptoms of CHF. In the end, I think his passing was not due solely to CHF, but more so to doggy dementia, as a few weeks prior to Rusty passing away the vet had declared his heart to be "sounding good."

When we first started the enalapril, I remember reading one study that found that most dogs lived approximately 1.5 years more after starting the medication. If I remember correctly, 1.5 years was longer than dogs lived without being on the medication. I'm sorry, I can't remember what article that was, but I'm sure you can find similar information if you're interested. For us, the biggest thing about those two meds was that it gave Rusty a greater quality of life for the time he had left with us.

Best wishes for you and Tangee to enjoy lots of good, quality time together still. It's hard when they get older, and while a diagnosis like CHF can be managed successfully for quite a while, I remember really having a hard time facing the fact that Rusty wouldn't live forever.


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## Tiny Poodles

Rusty said:


> Our mini poodle, Rusty, had CHF. He was diagnosed at about 16 years old, maybe 15.5. The "heart cough" had been going on for some time before that, probably a year or so, but at the time we didn't recognise it for what it was. Now, we recognise the sound of that cough in dogs and people... it sounds the same and, after living with it, it's tough to mistake for anything else. But before that, Rusty had different, congenital throat problems that made him cough when eating/drinking, so we didn't differentiate the heart cough from his "normal" cough. In retrospect, as I said, it had a more distinctive sound, and, interestingly, was worst at night, not during/after exercise. Our vet noticed it when he was in for his annual check-up, as he did the heart cough when she was exerting gentle pressure on his throat/chest. We immediately put him on enalapril at the maximum dosage for his weight. Our vet said that, in her experience, starting at the maximum dose worked best for most of her patients. The enalapril made a HUGE difference for Rusty. He went from being very, very slow on his walks and sleeping the rest of the time to being a bit more spritely on his walks and actually going back to running after squeaky toys and such. Our condo neighbours at the time even commented on the difference in his demeanour (for the better). The heart cough at night nearly stopped. After 8 months - 1 year of being on enalapril, the coughing worsened again, and our vet suggested we add Vetmedin to the protocol. That medication made another big, positive difference for Rusty, but was also more expensive. Neither medication was a diuretic, which was great, and both were very helpful in maintaining quality of life.
> 
> Rusty passed away at 17.5 years old, about 1.5 - 2 years after he'd been diagnosed with CHF, but probably closer to 3 years after he'd first started showing symptoms of CHF. In the end, I think his passing was not due solely to CHF, but more so to doggy dementia, as a few weeks prior to Rusty passing away the vet had declared his heart to be "sounding good."
> 
> When we first started the enalapril, I remember reading one study that found that most dogs lived approximately 1.5 years more after starting the medication. If I remember correctly, 1.5 years was longer than dogs lived without being on the medication. I'm sorry, I can't remember what article that was, but I'm sure you can find similar information if you're interested. For us, the biggest thing about those two meds was that it gave Rusty a greater quality of life for the time he had left with us.
> 
> Best wishes for you and Tangee to enjoy lots of good, quality time together still. It's hard when they get older, and while a diagnosis like CHF can be managed successfully for quite a while, I remember really having a hard time facing the fact that Rusty wouldn't live forever.


Thank you so much, you gave me a lot of helpful information.
I just wish I knew what that cough sounded like - I remember the cardiologist saying the same thing with Taylee - that I would KNOW IT when I heard it, and Taylee's cough was allergy related, not from the murmur, and Tangee's cough sounds exactly like Taylee's, so who knows, maybe it has nothing to do with her heart either. I just worry about her so much - she is 6 months older then Teaka (they are both 11), but Teaka looks and acts like a 2 year old, and Tangee (from a different breeder), looks and acts like a 16y/o - so I'm just very worried that a medical explanation for the difference in them will show itself...


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## CT Girl

You will know it when you hear it. My Zack just coughed once and I made an appointment with my vet at the time. It does not sound like a regular cough - it sounds wrong. It does not sound like an allergy cough. I never heard that cough before but I didn't need to. I hope what you hear is just an allergy cough.


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## Tiny Poodles

It sounds like cough, cough, cough wretch - like she is trying to get something up out of her throat - maybe mucous? Nothing actually comes out (at least not onto the floor).
That does not sound like CHF?


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## Poodlemama99

My Omar (14 1/4) has had CHF for the past 9 months. It is not severe but he does have the hacking smokers cough and sounds like a cat coughing up a hair ball. The vet feels that the medicine is not necessary yet as Omar tends to get all the side effects of everything and other than coughing he does not seem bothered by the CHF at all. 


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## Rusty

Tiny poodles... if I was going to use words to describe Rusty's heart cough, it would probably be along those lines, right down to the fact that there's often (but not always) three "coughs" before the "wretch." I'm sure the vet will be able to tell you right away, as I think CHF is very common with smaller older dogs (not sure about the bigger ones).


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## CT Girl

canine cough with congestive heart failure - YouTube

Here is a link of a toy poodle with it.


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## Tiny Poodles

That's pretty much it - not as deep sounding in the cough (but she is a much smaller dog), but otherwise the same :-(
But then that is the same cough that Taylee had from her allergies - she had many ultrasounds and they always said that her murmur was well compensated, and no fluid was backing up.
Oh, well I guess we will see when she has her ultrasound.
Thanks for your support everyone - I'm glad to hear that even if she has it, it does not mean like her death is immanent like it did for my Tasia....


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## Tiny Poodles

Poodlemama99 said:


> My Omar (14 1/4) has had CHF for the past 9 months. It is not severe but he does have the hacking smokers cough and sounds like a cat coughing up a hair ball. The vet feels that the medicine is not necessary yet as Omar tends to get all the side effects of everything and other than coughing he does not seem bothered by the CHF at all.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


If you don't mind my asking, about how many times a day would you say that Omar coughs?


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## Tiny Poodles

So Tangee see's the Vet tomorrow.
Interestingly her cough has decreased to only maybe 4 or 5 episodes a day, so I am wondering if that can happen with CHF - can it be variable in an unmedicated dog? And if so, would the test results be different if she is in a better phase- should we wait until symptoms are worse to get an accurate reading from the X-rays and ultrasound?
I know that these are questions to ask the Vet but still I always appreciate real life experiences from other poodle lovers.


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## Tiny Poodles

So her Vet does not think it's CHF - more like bronchitis, maybe combined with the usual trachea collapse that toys have, and the hot/humid weather. But her murmur has reached stage 2, and her heart is accordingly enlarged, so going to take her to the cardiologist to get an ultrasound just to be sure.


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