# Bloat



## frecklesdmk (Mar 27, 2013)

I am so glad Ace recovered! I lost a spoo a year ago in March. She also had her spleen removed. She survived the surgery but had complications with her heart that forced us to let her go. 

I asked about the height of the food bowls and was told the current recommendations are on the floor but my vet, and the vet who did my new girls's Pexi, was that they didn't believe there is enough evidence that the height of food bowls is conclusive. Fast eating and vigorous exercise after eating are advised against but some dogs bloat even though they don't do those. 

I monitor my new girl when she eats (she's a gobbler). Keep in mind Ace might still bloat, the Pexi is to prevent the torsion. My new girl has had 2 or 3 times when she's gotten to much air and has stopped eating, whined, and turns her head towards her side. (Like my one that bloated). I rub her belly, and pat her sides to get her to burp. Scares me every time but I'm glad I had her Pexi done.


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## Ace1 (Jul 27, 2014)

Thank you so much, frecklesdmk for your advice. I'll be sure to keep an eye on Ace when I feed him and will give him small amounts of food 3 times a day and make sure he rests between meals. I guess, all in all, some dogs are just prone to bloating and torsion, one can only do what one thinks is right, there is so much conflicting information that you have to go with your gut instinct. I am so sorry you lost your girl, I don't doubt you did your very best for her.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Bloat is horrendous. I lost my mom's heart dog who I had inherited to bloat, the first time I'd seen this in 50 years surrounded by the breed. I am so thankful Ace pulled through. We recommend to all of our puppy families that they have their pup's stomach tacked (prophylactic gastropexy) when they have the spay/neuter done.


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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

I'm so sorry you went through this! I've been fortunate over the years to have never had to go through it with my dogs (knock on wood!). How many times daily do you feed? I used to have boxers, which are very prone to bloat, so I learned to feed them two smaller meals a day, rather than one big one. Also, don't add too much water to the kibble - just enough to moisten (if you do), as this can contribute, as well. In addition, don't allow the dog to drink too much water at a time. I pray that your fur baby makes a full recovery!!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

All preventative measures against bloat are MYTHS. 

Nobody knows what causes it beyond a section of intestine slipping out of position, twisting, and causing a blockage. Now you tell me how you might plan to stop that. 

If you really want to indulge your fantasies, feed your dogs high, or low, or in between... once, twice or three times a day. In the meantime, you're wasting your time and energy passing on rumours on preventing bloat. You're all just whistling in the dark.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I'm glad that you acted so quickly and I hope Ace will recover soon. How old is Ace? How old was your Mom's Heart Dog Arreau? Allegedly, bloat with torsion occurs in older dogs. We saw an outlier with Rhett. I wish instead of a survey on are you or aren't you going to do an elective pexy, we could gather our own bloat/torsion stats. For now, I'm keeping Gas-X handy.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Mom's boy was 14. And YES....anyone who owns a Spoo should keep a good, non expired amount of GasX on hand! When Thinker was examined before he was euthanised, the vet found a mass on his spleen.


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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

Countryboy said:


> All preventative measures against bloat are MYTHS.
> 
> Nobody knows what causes it beyond a section of intestine slipping out of position, twisting, and causing a blockage. Now you tell me how you might plan to stop that.
> 
> If you really want to indulge your fantasies, feed your dogs high, or low, or in between... once, twice or three times a day. In the meantime, you're wasting your time and energy passing on rumours on preventing bloat. You're all just whistling in the dark.


This kind of puts my mind at ease. I've read about it a couple times in here and researched it and spoke to my vet. The research doesn't tell me anything conclusive and the vet said it really is a mystery thing. Still, all the talk about fast eating or letting them exercise shortly after eating still scare me.


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## Ace1 (Jul 27, 2014)

Mfmst said:


> I'm glad that you acted so quickly and I hope Ace will recover soon. How old is Ace? How old was your Mom's Heart Dog Arreau? Allegedly, bloat with torsion occurs in older dogs. We saw an outlier with Rhett. I wish instead of a survey on are you or aren't you going to do an elective pexy, we could gather our own bloat/torsion stats. For now, I'm keeping Gas-X handy.


Thank you Mfmst. Ace is 4 yo. I have always been conscious of bloat and made doubly sure that I fed him small amounts at a time, it was a gut feeling with him. He has a habit of jumping around in circles and that always worried me especially with a full stomach. I'm in the process of training to stop jumping like a maniac, lol.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Mfmst said:


> I wish instead of a survey on are you or aren't you going to do an elective pexy, we could gather our own bloat/torsion stats


Exactly! One of these days I'm gonna learn to not try to solve a problem that women are discussing. And just shut up instead. :banghead: lol

But not just yet...  

First of all, research Torsion... understand what it is. Once you understand that, you will not even try Kaopectate, or Metamucil, or any other 'pink stuff' to alleviate the problem. The dogs are trying to puke, and poo, and nothing is going in or out... because it can't. The stomach is blocked!

Do your research to recognize the symptoms. *Let's repeat 'recognize the symptoms' three or four times.* 

Ace1's experience is well told and very typical. The sooner you recognize the symptoms the more chance to save the dog. The unsuccessful attempts to puke or poo are diagnostic. On seeing that, you want to start checking their stomach for 'hardness' immediately. If it feels more like a drum-skin, you want to get to the vet for a fifty dollar x-ray. 

But know that there is still time to save the dog and that panic is not good.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Ace1, I am so glad that Ace came through that OK! I can certainly understand that you never want to go through it again!

This is timely for me, too, as I was thinking about bloat this morning. When I picked up Dulcie to bring her out from my bedroom to the kitchen area (she does not yet have full run of the house) she started to retch and heave as though she was trying to vomit. I put her down gently and the heaving passed. No vomit. She went outside and peed and pooped as normal, but turned up her nose at breakfast. About 30 minutes later, she did eat most of her breakfast, however - I had put down a half portion with a spoonful of yogurt on top, which she loves.

Anyway, she is only 15 weeks and I hadn't thought seriously about bloat being an issue yet, but I am vigilant and have plans to have her stomach tacked when she has her spay at around 10 months. TOday's brief but alarming episode of heaving and retching brought up a lot of concerns for me.

ETA I should add that I did wonder if it was being picked up when she needed to go relieve herself quite badly (first thing out of crate in the morning) and she is getting a lot bigger and heavier - so I am going to begin working faster on a morning routine that allows her to walk outside from my bedroom - right now I carry her because of the baby gates in the kitchen which I don't want her to think of as optional barriers).


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Mfmst said:


> I'm glad that you acted so quickly and I hope Ace will recover soon. How old is Ace? How old was your Mom's Heart Dog Arreau? Allegedly, bloat with torsion occurs in older dogs. We saw an outlier with Rhett. I wish instead of a survey on are you or aren't you going to do an elective pexy, we could gather our own bloat/torsion stats. For now, I'm keeping Gas-X handy.


It occurs in young dogs, too. I had one bloat with torsion at 23 months.


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## Spoos+Ponies (Mar 26, 2014)

I'm curious about how much of bloat is genetic. Some lines say they have none, or very little. I'm not sure I'd get my new girl tacked, but am wondering if it makes more sense to do it in pet stock, rather than breeding stock. If breeding stock is tacked, and doesn't bloat, it doesn't really tell you much about the line's predisposition to bloat, does it?


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Freckles hasn't weighed with her dogs age and temperament, but this is the concern I have with drawing conclusions from small sample studies. I might conclude that the highest risk of GDV was for male dogs at age 4. The studies that put our SPOOs at top tier risk, only involved 23 poodles and the one that put us at alleged lifetime risk of death from torsion of 25.3% had 132 poodles. (That 25% number was footnoted with a low confidence ranking by the authors.). The later study incorporated findings from the first...

Everyone is trying to do their best for their Poodles, Countryboy, without clear guidance on what constitutes risk or how much real risk there truly is.


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## frecklesdmk (Mar 27, 2013)

Brandy was 7 and very healthy. She never exhibited any close calls prior to her bloat. She was a fast eater and burped after she ate. 

We did get her to the vet in time, surgery went well, and her stomach was "pinking up". She had complications with her heart after surgery. They had a hard time keeping her heart rate at a normal level. The vet said her heart was damaged and if she survived, her functionality would be greatly impacted. We chose to let her go. 

A year later, her sister from the same litter bloated and had a successful recovery from surgery. 


I do understand that there isn't any evidence to pinpoint causes or genetic links to torsion. I do believe that it doesn't hurt to slow down a speedy eater or restrict strenuous exercise after eating. 

I do this with my current spoo and I had her pexi'd. I know that taking these precautions won't guarantee she won't have torsion and I understand that had I not taken these precautions she might never have had a torsion. 

The precautions don't harm her in any way and they provide me with a little more piece of mind to enjoy my girl


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## Raven's Mom (Mar 18, 2014)

frecklesdmk said:


> I do this with my current spoo and I had her pexi'd. I know that taking these precautions won't guarantee she won't have torsion and I understand that had I not taken these precautions she might never have had a torsion.
> 
> The precautions don't harm her in any way and they provide me with a little more piece of mind to enjoy my girl


J

I these are my thoughts it exactly!

Teri


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## Ace1 (Jul 27, 2014)

I tend to be of the opinion that there is a genetic predisposition to GDV. I am going to ring the breeder and ask if she had this happen to her in any of her lines esp. Ace's line. If this is the case, I can only hope I get an honest response.


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## Ace1 (Jul 27, 2014)

Countryboy said:


> Exactly! One of these days I'm gonna learn to not try to solve a problem that women are discussing. And just shut up instead. :banghead: lol
> 
> But not just yet...
> 
> ...


Well said, CB, although the use of Gas X, as recommended by the posters in this thread, are strictly for bloat alone without twisting of the stomach. Of course once GDV has occurred, surgery is the ONLY option for the reasons you typified. 

I wish Vets were a little more verbally proactive when dealing with owners of dogs predisposed to GDV. Why not hand out an educational leaflet alerting people to the possibility that their dog could be prone to GDV and a description of the symptoms they should look out for and that time is the essence between life and death.


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## frecklesdmk (Mar 27, 2013)

Ace1 said:


> I tend to be of the opinion that there is a genetic predisposition to GDV. I am going to ring the breeder and ask if she had this happen to her in any of her lines esp. Ace's line. If this is the case, I can only hope I get an honest response.



Not that we know of. Cardiac arrhythmia and/or failure are one of the common complications of torsion


(Edited to add - don't know what happened. I was quoting a question someone asked if Brandy had a heart issue before her bloat. Somehow the above shows as the quote and the post with the question isn't showing)


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## Ace1 (Jul 27, 2014)

The evening before Ace was struck with GDV, my husband fed him. I was sitting in the lounge room with a shocking headache, hubby walked in and asked if I fed Ace, I told him I did earlier in the day. He asked if I would feed him again and I said No, he's right, he had enough. Hubby decides to feed him AGAIN and gave him ample amounts of dry food unbeknownst to me, never mind the fact that I told him NEVER to give Ace too much dry food because of the risk of GDV! I must've told hubby at least a dozen times throughout Ace's 4 years and I'd also like to add that I'm responsible for feeding the dogs, hubby only does so on the very odd occasion. As per usual, he knows best and now he's solely responsible for paying the $2000 incurred by his selective hearing.


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## Ace1 (Jul 27, 2014)

Found this link on this forum. Tell me what you think about it? Could there be a link between vaccinations & GDV??

http://www.kaossiberians.com/old ka...t Seizures Subclinical Cases of Distemper.pdf


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Do remember that, as long as people suspect torsion to result from a genetic predisposition, incidences of bloat will not be reported to the PHR.


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