# 7 month Toy Poodle



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

What do you mean he goes in circles ? Is he trying to get out of your grip ? Some dogs don’t like being picked up very much. My dog, Beckie (blue dog below) is not terribly fond of it so I don’t do it unless I have to or she asks me too (like at the vet).

You can try to make it more fun by giving treats when you pick him up, so he associates being picked up with goodies. After a while you start giving treats less often as the dog has gotten used to it and probably likes it by then.

Also, one important thing to do is respect your dog’s preference and not pick him up unless necessary. Often, we do things to dogs because we, humans, like it. Not the dog.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Was he checked by your vet after bringing him home? Has he done this since the first day or did it start after?

Is there any way you can take a video to show this behavior?


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

I did not show him to vet because figured he has all his vaccines.

Ill try to send a video


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

It's always a good idea to have your vet check any new pup and to be seen for a baseline wellness check.
Do you have his vet records from the breeder to get the vaccinations listed in your vet's records?


Molodets said:


> before I pick him up he shivers, tilts, goes around circles.





Molodets said:


> I would like some advice on how to make him stop that.


It's necessary to understand why this is happening to know how to help him out of it.
Is this new behavior or has he done this also since you brought him home?
Is there any other behavior/s you have questions about?
Is he otherwise eating, drinking, eliminating, playing, sleeping normally?


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Rose n Poos said:


> It's always a good idea to have your vet check any new pup and to be seen for a baseline wellness check.
> Do you have his vet records from the breeder to get the vaccinations listed in your vet's records?
> 
> 
> ...


He is like that since I brought him home.
He is eating drinking etc all good.

I have all of his vaccines on papers


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

How old was he when you brought him home? And did you get him from a breeder? Or what was the situation he was in before you got him?


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Do you have any of his medical records beyond the vaccinations? I may be misremembering but I thought records were going to be provided?


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> How old was he when you brought him home? And did you get him from a breeder? Or what was the situation he was in before you got him?


He was 7 month old.
I bought him from the breeder.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Rose n Poos said:


> Do you have any of his medical records beyond the vaccinations? I may be misremembering but I thought records were going to be provided?


I got pra records and vaccines.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

I have a video but I dont know how to post it


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

So you’ve only very recently brought him home? Keep in mind that’s a big change at such a sensitive age. He’s still getting comfortable with his new surroundings and family.

What does the breeder have to say about this behaviour? Is he otherwise a happy, healthy, confident, well-socialized poodle?

Regardless, I would get him to your veterinarian right away for a wellness check. That is a good idea any time you bring home a new dog, regardless of his age.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Molodets said:


> I have a video but I dont know how to post it


You will need to upload it to YouTube and then copy and paste the link here.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Here is a video of when He knows Im about to pick him up


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

This looks like very anxious, submissive behaviour to me. The lip licking, tucked tail, exposed belly...

Did he behave this way at the breeder’s house? Has he been well-socialized?

I would be going down to his level and letting him come to you. No bending directly over him in a way that can appear threatening or overwhelming, especially while you’re still getting to know each other.

Here’s some more info:

*Appeasement/Deference Language*
_Deference language is designed to appease a perceived threat, avoid injury and is crucial for survival. If the dog engages in non-threatening behavior this helps deescalate the negative intentions of another animal or human. Most appeasement behavior is extremely submissive with the dog lowering the body, making it appear smaller and less threatening. Socially appropriate dogs will respond positively to this deference while others often take advantage of what they perceive as weakness._


_Head bobbing or lowering_
_Head turning_
_Averting eyes_
_Lip licking_
_Low tail carriage_
_Tail tucked between the legs_
_Curved and lowered body_
_Stomach flip – the dog flips over quickly, exposing his stomach; he is not asking for a belly rub, but signaling that he is withdrawing from interaction_
From: Canine Body Language


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

He's hoping to placate you.

My Remo does a variation on this. When he's unsure or doesn't really want to do something I'm asking, he just rolls onto his back and looks at me, as if to say "I'm very small. I know you won't hurt me."

Good advice from PTP. This is something you can help him with by taking your time and making yourself "small" too. Sit or even lie on the floor til you're near his level. Let him come to you and reward with treats and praise.
Once he's coming to you reliably, still sitting on the floor, let him know what you're going to do and bring him into your lap, still petting and offering treats.

Build slowly on this. It does sound like he needs time but I think he'll come around once he knows he's safe.

He is stinkin' cute 

Is Max around when Munchen does this? Didn't see him in the video. I don't think it's anything to do with Max, just trying to think how he might be able to help by being a good example.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Will try. Let you know the progress 
Thank you


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Rose n Poos said:


> He's hoping to placate you.
> 
> My Remo does a variation on this. When he's unsure or doesn't really want to do something I'm asking, he just rolls onto his back and looks at me, as if to say "I'm very small. I know you won't hurt me."
> 
> ...


Max was sleeping at the time I recorded that video 😉😆😆😆


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

What a tiny baby! I completely agree with getting down to his level. Sit on the floor and let him come to you, and maybe he will sit in your lap or sit beside you. Once he is relaxed, you might try moving him when he's in your lap, just so that he can kind of get used to having hands around him. But only do this when he's relaxed and comfortable. It's important to know how to read your puppy.

My dogs have not always enjoyed being picked up. I remember a vet remind me that humans can have sharp fingers. Both of my dogs like sitting on the furniture, but one can no longer jump up. He has to accept being picked up for this reason because he won't use stairs, but otherwise he backs away or runs. If you want your dog up on the furniture with you, you might start training him to use dog stairs. Probably safest for his size.

Also, it is always best to take a new dog to the vet even if they come with all their shots. They need to be checked out by someone other than the breeder's vet. Wishing you a happy, healthy puppy!


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

When I was a kid we had a extra small dog that would do that. Nothing was wrong with it, I think it was excitement and us being so much bigger. If we sat on the floor she would only do it a little.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Absolutely agree - she is nervous and trying to placate you. Get down on the floor and let her come to you, and as she gets more confident teach her a "Pick up?" cue. I use a cupped hand, and my dogs will stand still and shift one leg to make it easier for me to slip my hand underneath them. It's important whenever possible to respect her wishes if she backs off and indicates that she doesn't want to be picked up - many small dogs hate being swooped upon and swept into the air - consider your own feelings if suddenly lifted to the height of the treetops by a giant, especially one you did not yet know well enough to be sure they would not drop you!


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

fjm said:


> Absolutely agree - she is nervous and trying to placate you. Get down on the floor and let her come to you, and as she gets more confident teach her a "Pick up?" cue. I use a cupped hand, and my dogs will stand still and shift one leg to make it easier for me to slip my hand underneath them. It's important whenever possible to respect her wishes if she backs off and indicates that she doesn't want to be picked up - many small dogs hate being swooped upon and swept into the air - consider your own feelings if suddenly lifted to the height of the treetops by a giant, especially one you did not yet know well enough to be sure they would not drop you!


👍 makes sense


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

There’s nothing worrisome about this behavior. Your puppy is unsure and is doing appeasing behaviors and preparing for you to pick him up. 

You need to adjust your posture and tone of voice if necessary. Make yourself smaller by kneeling down instead of standing. Use a soft, high pitched voice instead of your normal voice. Sit on the floor a few feet away from the dog and let him come to you. If he does, it will be a sign of trust. Don’t force yourself on him. Let him come at his own pace. If there is no emergency situation, no need to pick him up if he doesn’t want to.

This is a very sensitive little dog that requires a very gentle approach. Being forceful or too straight forward with him will break his spirit. The puppies often do submissive peeing when the owners are too harsh on them.

He looks very sweet. With the right approach, you will see him gain confidence and transform in front of your eyes.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

What do you guys think about this food for poodle toy puppy?

Orijen 4.5 LB Puppy Dry Dog Food Formula. (1 Pack... Amazon.com: Orijen 4.5 LB Puppy Dry Dog Food Formula. (1 Pack) Grain Free Puppy Food: Pet Supplies


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

What was the breeder feeding him? Are you feeding that food still? Is there something about that food you don't like? That's just curiosity. 
Are you feeding Max puppy food still? 

If you decide to make a change, just remember to introduce the new food slowly but if he's doing well on his current food, don't try changing just yet. He'll be going thru his adjustment period for a little while yet and changing his food could set off gastrointestinal upsets.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

duplicate


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I looked at the ingredients and analysis and there are some things which give me pause. There's a current thread here which discusses some choices and the still-under-study concerns with some ingredients (which are in many foods, especially grain-free foods).
ETA: I re-read a comment from a member with a science background, revisited my saved files and am feeling less concerns re the ingredients but I still question the higher protein content. Orijen is a well-regarded food, so I don't see any reason not to feed it.









Looking for the best dog food for my Toy Poodle


Hello, I currently have my 2 year old toy poodle on Acana Adult Small breed dog food. She was on Acana when I bought her and the breeder recommended the food so I kept her on it. I had my previous toy on Go as an adult and then Now Senior Weight Management as a senior. My Bichon Havanese Cross...




www.poodleforum.com





another fairly current thread with more information and some (of the same) recommendations on brands









Other food alternatives for toy poodle puppy


Hello! I have currently been with my Zuko for 2 weeks now and I am interested in exploring different food options for him. He is currently on Royal Canin Small Puppy Dog Food. Eventually, I would like to incorporate fruits, and more raw meats to his diet. I'm seriously considering freeze dried...




www.poodleforum.com





There are other choices such as those mentioned in those other threads which are as nutritionally sound, and may even cost less.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Rose n Poos said:


> What was the breeder feeding him? Are you feeding that food still? Is there something about that food you don't like? That's just curiosity.
> Are you feeding Max puppy food still?
> 
> If you decide to make a change, just remember to introduce the new food slowly but if he's doing well on his current food, don't try changing just yet. He'll be going thru his adjustment period for a little while yet and changing his food could set off gastrointestinal upsets.


What ever breeder gave him, when I brought him home he did not eat for 2 days.
orijen he started to eat. Max is eating the same food orijen for puppies. Both poodles toy and mini eat orijen without any issues. Some times I mix it with wet food. They go crazy about it and then they are lazy to learn any tricks. 😂😂😂😂😂

just wanted to make sure if its a good brand. I Dont care about money when it comes to my pupps, for me its essential to feed them excellent food, thats why Im in search for right food.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)




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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

It's not unusual for a pup to not eat much for a day or two when they are taken from their only known home and family and brought to a new one.
It's a very stressful time for them.
Good news is that you already had Max on a high quality puppy food and that Munchen (Munchin?) likes it too.


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## Klister Kid (Dec 9, 2020)

Dechi said:


> What do you mean he goes in circles ? Is he trying to get out of your grip ? Some dogs don’t like being picked up very much. My dog, Beckie (blue dog below) is not terribly fond of it so I don’t do it unless I have to or she asks me too (like at the vet).
> 
> You can try to make it more fun by giving treats when you pick him up, so he associates being picked up with goodies. After a while you start giving treats less often as the dog has gotten used to it and probably likes it by then.
> 
> Also, one important thing to do is respect your dog’s preference and not pick him up unless necessary. Often, we do things to dogs because we, humans, like it. Not the dog.


I got a 4 month old female poodle that had some unfortunate social fears: she would hide in the rear of my car as far as she could be from me for the first six months or so; she would not go near any women of any age until she was 4+ years; about the only issue remaining is that she barks at almost anything in the middle of the night, right now she's outside barking at something (couldn't see it).
Once I was in Harper's Ferry visiting the Civil War sites. I went to the railroad station next to where the rivers join. A CSX freight went by. Wheels scretched!! She panicked. Her body shook. I tried to get her to come with me (she was on a leash). She just froze; she shivered uncontrollably. So, I sat next to her, wrapped my arms around her, and whispered "sweet nothings" in her ear. After a few minutes she settled down. Ten minutes another train went by. She had no problem.
So, time, patience, and touching them helps. Heh, come to think of it, doesn't that work for humans, too?


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Yes, I agree with the suggestions above:

Take him to the vet for a baseline check, and suggestions/opinion.
Get down on his level. You may appear to be a giant standing over him! I would even try laying on my back and let him come explore you. Be really slow and gentle about it and reward him for little approaches and improvements. It could take many days, or even weeks.

I too am curious if he did this when you were at the breeder. And if he did it with the breeder.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

K


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Almost all the time when I try to pick up my 7 month old toy poodle, Quietly and calmly
He pees.

How do I fix that??


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Again, it is submissive behaviour - "Smell me, I am just a harmless baby!". Give him time to decide whether he wants to be picked up, keeping handling calm and gentle, and building his confidence will help with submissive urination.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Have you tried the suggestions you’ve been given in this thread? Remember that change doesn’t often happen overnight.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Have you tried the suggestions you’ve been given in this thread? Remember that change doesn’t often happen overnight.


Yes Im working on it.
He is extremely fragile.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Molodets said:


> Yes Im working on it.
> He is extremely fragile.


All of those suggestions will apply to submissive urination. Think of your puppy as a dog with very sensitive hearing. You need only _whisper_ with your actions and body language. No shouting.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

PeggyTheParti said:


> All of those suggestions will apply to submissive urination. Think of your puppy as a dog with very sensitive hearing. You need only _whisper_ with your actions and body language. No shouting.


Yes, 'whisper in voice'', 'whisper in actions'. What I mean by that is super calm and gentle actions.

Do you meditate?

I had a very fascinating experience with my Spoo when he was a puppy. He did No, 0, zero, submissive urination with me, but when a good friend came around he did it every time. She was a very strong, powerful, assertive woman, which I admired, but apparently my dog reacted to her energy. She warned me that he would be a problem forever. But he never was a problem with me, and as long as I was close to him he never did this with her or others after. 

Then I met a woman who did Reiki healing energy work, which I had also studied. Watching him with her was amazing. He practically melted into her, like he did with me. I believe many dogs are extremely sensitive to energy fields, some much more than others. Perhaps try meditating before you do some of these very gentle things that we have suggested here..... I will be so interested to hear back.... 

Where are you? It would be fun to meet and experiment


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> All of those suggestions will apply to submissive urination. Think of your puppy as a dog with very sensitive hearing. You need only _whisper_ with your actions and body language. No shouting.


Will he Eventually change and react normally?
Or he could stay like this for long time?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Molodets said:


> Will he Eventually change and react normally?
> Or he could stay like this for long time?


That will depend on what you’re doing. He could get worse or he could blossom before your eyes.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Molodets said:


> Will he Eventually change and react normally?
> Or he could stay like this for long time?


Just verifying, is the only time this happens when you pick him up?

Is there any other circumstance where a different action or different person causes him to react by peeing?

Did the breeder say that he'd done this with them or someone or some action while with them?

Did the vet say he's healthy overall?

Is he coming to you before you pick him up or are you going to him?

Will he come to you and sit in your lap without peeing? If so, you might try picking him up from that position rather than from the floor. Try standing slowly from a sitting position on a chair or sofa with him in your arms. Does he pee then?
If not, you've got a building point. Let him get used to that by practicing two or three times a day. Then try from the floor up only a couple of feet then put him down. Does he pee then? If not, practice that at different times like above. 
If you can get to where you can pick him up either of those ways reliably without peeing, then try the full pick up, slowly. 

There is something called The Rule of Three that might partially apply here. It's generally thought of with rescue dogs but the concepts are still applicable. These are still only guidelines, not hard and fast rules.

In the *first three days* at home with you, your dog may:

Feel overwhelmed by their surroundings
Not feel comfortable enough to be himself
Not want to eat their food or drink their water
Be scared and unsure of what’s going on
Shut down and curl up in their bed
Behave definitely and test your boundaries
In the *first three weeks* at home with you, your dog may:

Start to settle in
Feel more comfortable
Figure out his environment
Get into the routine you’ve set
Let their guard down and start showing their real personality 
Start showing ingrained behavior issues
Figure out this is their new home
After *three months *at home with you, your dog may:

Feel comfortable at home
Have built trust and a true bond with you
Have gained a complete sense of security with their new family
Embrace their new routine wholeheartedly

If this is submissive peeing or he's still just unsure, it's likely that he'll grow out of it, as my Remo did. It's also possible, but less likely that this can go on longer. 

On the medical side, it may be a still immature bladder. This wouldn't require medical attention, just getting a bit older.

As PTP reminded, how comfortable you can help him to be, and help build his confidence by going slowly and letting him see that there's nothing to fear will build deeper trust and help to resolve this. 

Is he still otherwise acting normally, playing and such?


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Rose n Poos said:


> Just verifying, is the only time this happens when you pick him up?
> 
> Is there any other circumstance where a different action or different person causes him to react by peeing?
> 
> ...


He is 3 weeks in the house. When we come to him he is afraid. 
He is afraid of everything, barely plays, eats well.

Just verifying, is the only time this happens when you pick him up?

Yes

Is there any other circumstance where a different action or different person causes him to react by peeing?

Not sure. But 6 out of 10 times he pees when I pick him up.

Did the breeder say that he'd done this with them or someone or some action while with them?
No she never mentioned that.

Did the vet say he's healthy overall?
I have an appointment on Tuesday.

Is he coming to you before you pick him up or are you going to him?
Some times he comes, when he doesnt I come to him. He is always scared.
behaves very succinctly.

what’s interesting though for couple days he was very active and confident, then again he started to act scared


Will he come to you and sit in your lap without peeing?

Yes

If so, you might try picking him up from that position rather than from the floor. Try standing slowly from a sitting position on a chair or sofa with him in your arms. Does he pee then?

No


If not, you've got a building point. Let him get used to that by practicing two or three times a day. Then try from the floor up only a couple of feet then put him down. Does he pee then?

we pick him up a lot and very carefully.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm going to ask something different. 

Would you mind describing what a regular day is like for him? 

Where does he sleep? Alone, or with you, or Max? In a crate or free to roam? 

What's the daily routine for him and you and Max from wake up to go to sleep?

Would it be possible to take another video of him when he appears afraid of something?


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Rose n Poos said:


> I'm going to ask something different.
> 
> Would you mind describing what a regular day is like for him?
> 
> ...



Would you mind describing what a regular day is like for him?

My wife takes him out in The morning to pee and poop. in the morning He always pees two times within in 5 minutes, whole day he is with her, 70% in her arms. She takes him out about 5 to 6 times a day. She goes to sleep around 10 PM. Eats Twice a day, Morning and around six or 7 PM

today I sat On the floor and he came to me and didn’t pee.
But when I took him to pee outside, he did not pee, when I picked him up he Peed.


Where does he sleep? Alone, or with you, or Max? In a crate or free to roam?

Max is sleeping in the crate on the first floor, toy poodle is sleeping in our bedroom in the crate, the crate is on the floor by the bed, he does not cry.


Would it be possible to take another video of him when he appears afraid of something?

I’ll do that later maybe today


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

I would cut back on the picking up. I personally try not to pick dogs up more than a few times a day, and preferably only when they ask. Yes crouching to their level is a pain, but it's worth it to build the dogs confidence. 

I say 'ready? Up!" And the dog usually comes towards me. If they don't want to be picked up, they move away and I try to respect that. Having the CHOICE really helps make my dogs happy to be picked up. 

When I was a kid, we had a small dog. My dad would yell at me 'Put that dog down! She has 4 legs!" Annoying but he was right. Dogs gain a lot of confidence from having agency, the ability to go where they wish and make decisions. 

If I had a small, nervous dog, I would put them on a long line or a Flexi and go somewhere quiet very frequently. An empty park, a country road, a field.... And just let the dog sniff. Have a pocket of treats and maybe take a mat to sit on, and just sit there and let the dog explore. Pet them if they come to you, let them roam if they don't. My mom has dog who was incredibly anxious and lots of outdoor time to sniff was the best thing we did for her. 

As for submissive/excitement peeing - it usually goes away with age. My dog submissive peed every time she met someone new, then it faded to every occasion she was in a new place, she peed for the first person she met, then just new dogs. By a year, it was pretty much over, though she will still use it if she is nervous of a dog.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

FWoP makes a good point. In his life before he was very likely allowed the independence to move and go where he chose, within some reasonable boundaries. By being up in someone's arms for much of the day, that independence is gone.
It's very tempting and done with love to try to hold these little ones close, literally, but its not helping to build confidence. Imagine yourself in his paws.

Is Max picked up as often and held as much thru the day or is he given the ability to choose?

I don't pick my boys up very often unless there's a need. Sometimes that need is mine, to just plant a smooch on their nose, but then they're right back down. There's plenty of snuggle time whenever we're all relaxing. They choose to come to us and we have a lot of cuddle time then.

What other kinds of activities are you doing together? Is there any time spent on fun training daily?

You know that poodles are very smart and need to have their brains engaged every day too. If he's got the basic obedience skills learned consider doing some trick training.

AKC training - get certified or just learn the steps
AKC Canine Good Citizen - mix or pure breed








Canine Good Citizen (CGC) – American Kennel Club


AKC’s Canine Good Citizen program is the gold standard of behavior for dogs in our communities. One million dogs, purebred and mixed breed, have earned CGC.




www.akc.org





AKC Trick Dog - mix or pure breed








AKC Trick Dog – American Kennel Club







www.akc.org





Teaching a dog something new and fun and helping them master new skills is a wonderful way to build confidence and make your bond even stronger.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Rose n Poos said:


> FWoP makes a good point. In his life before he was very likely allowed the independence to move and go where he chose, within some reasonable boundaries. By being up in someone's arms for much of the day, that independence is gone.
> It's very tempting and done with love to try to hold these little ones close, literally, but its not helping to build confidence. Imagine yourself in his paws.
> 
> Is Max picked up as often and held as much thru the day or is he given the ability to choose?
> ...


Here is the video I uploaded.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

In these two pictures he appears to be sitting proudly, as a poodle would, and playing as a poodle would. You've said that he and Max get along well. Is that still the case?

In the video, I'm torn between thinking that he's in pain and having trouble moving normally, or maybe that he's got something uncomfortable stuck in his fur at the back end, or he is just very frightened.

I believe that you care very well for your poodles so I'd definitely get to the vet as soon as you can. If he's somehow hurt himself and he's in pain, I know you'll take care of that.

I think you'd initially said that things seemed good all around, so when did this change happen, if it is a change and not how he's been since the first day?

He is so very handsome and looks very sweet but he's definitely not comfortable with something.

I wonder if there's any value in sending the breeder the link so she can assess him there compared to his time with her?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Aw. My heart! That is one sweet but scared little poodle.  I’d stay low to the ground. Be calm and gentle. Maybe play with some toys quietly so he can come investigate. Just keep things very mellow for the next few weeks if you can. When a dog is rehomed, it can take months for them to settle in. And in this case I do wonder if he was properly socialized.

Let us know what the vet says, too. I’d arm myself with some yummy things in case he is not comfortable in the vet’s office. You could also let them know in advance that your little guy is nervous and still adjusting to his new life.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

(I’m still not really clear on this poodle’s origins. Was he returned to the breeder? Do you know anything about his life before he came to you?)


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

As I understand it, two breeders are in collaboration. Molodets pup, Munchen, was bred by one and sold for her by the other. This all checks out. 

I don't think Munchen was a return as there's another pup still on the AKC marketplace being advertised. I'm kind of inclined to think the actual breeder is going thru something and her breeder friend is helping out. The pup was flown with a nanny to Molodets after much discussion with the breeder who had Munchen under her care.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Rose n Poos said:


> As I understand it, two breeders are in collaboration. Molodets pup, Munchen, was bred by one and sold for her by the other. This all checks out.
> 
> I don't think Munchen was a return as there's another pup still on the AKC marketplace being advertised. I'm kind of inclined to think the actual breeder is going thru something and her breeder friend is helping out. The pup was flown with a nanny to Molodets after much discussion with the breeder who had Munchen under her care.


Thats correct.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

When I bought him home he was extremely shy, week later he was comfortable.
His 3rd week is today and he is shy again,
uncomfortable. Ive noticed my wife holds him in her hands most of the time.

He doesnt know how to ask to go potty, he kind of understands he cant release himself in the house 👍👍👍.
She is potty training him, doesnt want him to make accidents. She is working from home and he is with her all the time.
I checked his fur he doesn’t have anything stuck, he is definitely not in pain.
Im taking him to the vet on Tuesday, but I really dont think vet can do anything.
And of course I will take some dry liver beef treats with me. He loves them.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Molodets said:


> Here is the video I uploaded.


Poor baby.

That body language reminds me a lot of my mom's Yorkie when she first came home to us. We had never seen anything like it. She was terrified. She wanted desperately to be picked up and reassurance but was way too afraid to be picked up, walking around trying to find somewhere 'safe'. Extreme anxiety. Actually with me just pure terror- no desire to come to me at all, though she liked my mom.

Getting down to her level and a lot of patience - not reaching for the dog but waiting for it to come to you- helped a lot. This might take many minutes before they do. We used to say we treated her like a feral cat. Ignore ignore ignore don't look at the dog, just have a great treat casually in our hands. 

We also had success with providing her with lots of hiding spots (coffee tables and a crate) and Rescue remedy. She still will hide under a table if she is nervous about being caught, so she can feel safe while you hook on a leash. I had success with making her like me by feeding table scraps as I ate. She is now an accomplished beggar, the only dog I have ever had that begged, but I said at the time that I would rather a dog that begged that I could touch than one that ran in fear. I think me sitting still on a chair and the safety of the table to hide under helped too. She took a very long time to toilet train - we finally trusted her at about 4. 

Taking her any where really backfired, no socialization was possible until she was more confident with us. 

She remains an anxious dog, but at 5,has grown in leaps and bounds and tiny milestones with lots of patience, lots of treats, and lots of respecting her fears. She has a social life, and loves old ladies. She wants nothing to do with children and has found dog friends. She learned lots of lessons from our St. Bernard, and now my standard poodle, and loves nothing more than a nice run in the woods.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Poor baby.
> 
> That body language reminds me a lot of my mom's Yorkie when she first came home to us. We had never seen anything like it. She was terrified. She wanted desperately to be picked up and reassurance but was way too afraid to be picked up, walking around trying to find somewhere 'safe'. Extreme anxiety. Actually with me just pure terror- no desire to come to me at all, though she liked my mom.
> 
> ...


👍👍👍👍👍👍🙂🙂🙂🙂
Interesting.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

The vet is definitely a good place to start. If everything checks out, I would say it is very important to find and work with a dog behaviorist...someone who specializes in working with anxious dogs.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Molodets said:


> "...wife ... whole day he is with her, 70% in her arms. ..."


I am confused, is this a typo? Or is she actually carrying him around in her arms 70% of the time?


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

kontiki said:


> I am confused, is this a typo? Or is she actually carrying him around in her arms 70% of the time?


Not a typo,


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Molodets said:


> When I bought him home he was extremely shy, week later he was comfortable.
> His 3rd week is today and he is shy again,





Molodets said:


> Im taking him to the vet on Tuesday,


Hi,

Just checking in. I hope the vet visit went well. 

I've been thinking on your mentioning that he became shy again in the third week. I hope that he's feeling more comfortable again. 

It's so hard when they can't tell us.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Rose n Poos said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just checking in. I hope the vet visit went well.
> 
> ...


thank you for checking in.
Vet said that he is in excellent health no issues.

BUT.....!!!!!

He is still afraid of me and is shaking and peeing when I pick him up.

I don’t know what to do. Its already 1 month he is with us. 

to everyone else he is fine.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

This little dog is terribly afraid of you. Are you a tall man with a deep voice ? If so it’s making it even worse. In cases like that it’s hard to do but I think your best bet is to ignore him (don’t look at him, don’t talk to him, do not pet him or pick him up. Do not even purposely get close to him). By ignoring him, his confidence will slowly build, because he won’t afraid of you coming to him. He will be in control of the relationship and he will decide when he wants to get closer. And when he does, you need to wait for the next step, not try to create it.

Also, having a dog in your arms all day (or your wife) is not helping. The dog is relying on human comfort instead of slowly overcoming his fears. Make sure he has many safe places to go and hide in the house but then, put him down !

I guarantee you will have results if you start ignoring your dog for as long as needed. I have an extremely fearful / anxious dog and I’ve been through this.


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## Ava. (Oct 21, 2020)

I'm gonna mirror ceaser millan because this is probably the only thing helpful he's ever said, but "no touch, no talk, no eye contact"

Hold chicken, turkey, anything high value on you at all times. If your dog comes near you, look away, stay silent, and feed your dog. Eventually, your dog will learn that you are a person to trust.

Feed your dog its meals, only you feed the dog. Once your dog gets used to you, take over as the primary care person for awhile. Be the only one to train your dog, walk your dog, and take it on fun outings. Your dog will learn real quick that you are a great person.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

It would help to know if there was something specific that precipitated the change in the third week, but whether there was or not, things can still become better.

Unless it's necessary, I'd suggest that you not pick him up for a while so his discomfort isn't triggered.

I have a story to tell. Our approach was some different from the good advice above.

When we got our girls at almost 2 years old from their breeder, Noel was a happy, loved everybody little girl. Holly was scared of men, any man, even the breeders husband who I'm 100% sure never did anything to bring that on.
She didn't pee when picked up, she simply left any room that a man was in and would not let them in reach of her.

After we brought them home and we all settled in the first weeks, we didn't push the issue with her but we also knew that it would be necessary to at least get her to where my husband could touch her without her running away, if he needed to take her to the vet.

We started by having him be the one to feed them, so she'd associate that good thing with him. Another thing that we did was to sit on the sofa together for a short time with Holly in my lap. He would offer treats while we both encouraged her softly. If she took one, we'd both praise her and let her down. If she didn't, we still praise her and let her down or just sit quietly for a couple of minutes, then let her down. We did this several times a day.

Once she was taking treats pretty regularly and/or not trying to leave, I'd move her from my lap to between us and do the same thing.

Once that was going ok, I'd place her in his lap while still sitting right there and kept doing that until she didn't feel the need to leave.

Next we did this standing by each other, repeating the treats from him while Holly was in my arms. Since the middle step wasn't possible, once that was going ok, I'd hand her off to him, he'd hold her for a very brief time and then put her down.

We'd also leave a shirt or jacket with his scent near the places she liked to relax, to keep his scent near. Not in the bedtime crate, just in the daytime areas.

This went on for sometime, faster than a glacial pace, more like the changing of the seasons pace, with plateau time in between. We did push her just the tiniest bit past her comfort level, but only occasionally, with the hope that she'd see that nothing bad was going to happen.

We brought the girls home on October 4 2002 and it didn't take this long but the first picture I have of our success was August 13 2004. They were great together for the rest of her life.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I used a method called the "Tellington Touch", It is touch therapy developed by Linda Tellington to calm traumatized horses, it was adapted to help dogs and cats.
I used the Tellington touch with feral cats, and my traumatized mini poodle Fannie. 
Poor Fannie had been found starving and injured, she was returned to her breeder and was eventually adopted by me. 
Fannie was terrified of so much, like cars, garbage bags, mailboxes jand loud noises ust to name a few things, terrified enough to poop where she was.
I used acupressure points as well, along with a thunder shirt to help calm her. It took awhile but being quiet and calm and showing her the world wasn't scary helped so much.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

*ok I will ignore him completely.*


Pls Dont kill me for this question.

But maybe
I should make him go hungry?
That way, when he sees food, he will associate good with me?



My wife doesn’t hold him a lot anymore.
He constantly hides. Im just afraid he will be like that forever.

also when he pees in the house (since he doesnt know how to ask to go potty outside)
He begins to shake also. Its very hard to train him because he is afraid of everything!

If Only you guys knew how much love we give him...

Why didnt we just get doberman or Rottweiler.... 😉


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Love is a great start, but the frustrating truth is that most of us don’t have the skills to rehabilitate an undersocialized dog (which I’m guessing is the case with this little guy). And while I think that online advice can be helpful to an extent—and the support/commiseration is invaluable—it can also be fragmented, contradictory, and even a little overwhelming. That’s when it’s best to get help from a pro. That’s what we did with Peggy, and I’d encourage you to do the same with your poodle. It’s such a relief to have a plan in place and someone who can modify it as necessary to keep you progressing.

Here’s some info on choosing a trainer:

How to Choose a Trainer
Dog training is an unregulated industry, which means that anyone can call themself a dog trainer despite little or no experience or success. To combat this, well respected trainers have created their own certifications to set a floor for competency standards. Here’s a brief introduction to some of the acronyms you may see while searching for a trainer:

CPDT-KA, CPDT-KSA, CBCC-KA - This is the preferred accreditation of many PF members. All of these titles are associated with the Certification Council of Professional Dog Trainers, which has handily published a Directory of Trainers to assist you in connecting with a skilled and experienced trainer.
KPA - The Karen Pryor Academy is a leader in modern, science-based positive reinforcement methods, and the KPA certification reflects an intensive education in dog training. Karen Pryor’s model utilizes clicker training.
AKC (if in the USA) - You may see trainers advertise that they are certified evaluators for the American Kennel Club (or your national KC if outside of the US). These trainers are usually highly experienced in a particular program such as Canine Good Citizen or Trick Training.
APDT - Membership in the Association of Professional Dog Trainers is fee-based and not to be confused with the vigorous certification procedures of CPDT and KPA. It is, however, another resource for seeking trainers who support a least intrusive, minimally aversive (LIMA) approach to dog training.
Recommended Online/Virtual Trainers

Brian McMillan: Lucky Dog and MasterClass
Emily Larlham: Kikopup
Ian Dunbar: Dunbar Academy and Dogstar Daily
Steffi Trott: SpiritDog
Zak George: Pupford

From: Pandemic Puppy Primer

Even a remote session or two (if covid restrictions prevent in-person training in your area) can be very helpful.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Molodets said:


> ok I will ignore him completely.


until he comes to you. This just means to wait for him to approach you.



Molodets said:


> But maybe
> I should make him go hungry?


No, don't make him go hungry, but be the one to give the food so he makes only positive associations. Keep small treats handy, maybe in a pocket, and let one fall every so often if he's watching. See if he'll take it.



Molodets said:


> He constantly hides. I


You'd said he was ok with other people but uncomfortable around you. Is he hiding from everyone, most of his waking time, but allowing them to pick him up if they try?



Molodets said:


> since he doesnt know how to ask to go potty outside


What have you tried to train him to ask? Ring a bell? Go to the door? How would you like him to ask?



Molodets said:


> Im just afraid he will be like that forever.


This doesn't have to be. I'm sure this is very sad and frustrating for you but a key element is calm, relaxed behavior surrounding him.



Molodets said:


> If Only you guys knew how much love we give him...


I don't doubt that, not one bit. He looks so sweet, and I'll bet a mischievous little boy is hiding under the discomfort.



Molodets said:


> Why didnt we just get doberman or Rottweiler.... 😉


And what would Max do with one of them? 

How is their relationship going?


PTP makes good points, as usual. I think a behaviorist was mentioned earlier in the thread too but as with other trainers, be sure to find someone very poodle qualified, if you consider this. The links to the certified trainers might be a good source for recommendations. Also as she mentioned, it doesn't need to require ongoing sessions. Sometimes just having an impartial observer can help greatly when offering useful advice.

You're doing all you can to help Munchen thru this to come out to the happy full life he deserves, that you all do.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Molodets said:


> 🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂
> View attachment 474023


Oh that little face! And the bowtie just makes the look perfect!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think PtP is right, and professional help is needed to help you to help this frightened little dog. Look on the positive side - a terrified Rottweiler would be a far more dangerous thing to have around the house! This article Cautious Canines: Understanding and Helping Fearful Dogs is a good explanation, with links to some helpful resources.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I found this tube on the T-touch, maybe it will be helpful, though I haven't taken the time to view it throughly. 



I would also keep some calming music playing, they have some dog relaxing music on tube. Possibly one of those calming defusers, made specifically for dogs. And just lie on the floor or sit in a chair and have a few treats on you to give him whenever he approaches you. You may even start with just placing one on the floor next to you, perhaps on a towel or dog bed nearby you. 
It may take time, months for him to trust you and he may just be one who is a nervous anxious type dog. Genetics can also play a role in this. Has his breeder been able to give you any insight? or ideas on how to help him.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Ear work with TT. Notice how very very gentle and observant she is:


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I'm thinking this puppy is very insecure. I think a behaviorist is a good step.

How I would handle this if you can't get access to someone who can help you.
In the past when I've dealt with really insecure animals, I found they were calmer if I could teach them to do a trick that always brought a reward or safety. Being able to perform their trick gave them a feeling of control and confidence. Once they were in a safe mental space, then I could work on other things. I usually teach sit and down in the beginning. In most chaotic situations a dog is safe sitting and waiting for further instructions. 

I really like clicker training for this kind of training. Start with a really tasty treat, like little pea sized bits of chicken or hot dog. Click and drop a piece of chicken in front of the dog. Let the dog eat the chicken. Click and drop another piece of chicken in front of the dog without looming or staring touching or using your big male voice. Do this a dozen times and then just walk away. The dog should now think of you two ways. You are Big Scary Guy, but you are also Chicken Guy. Repeat the next day, and maybe even a third. You want to make Chicken Guy a stronger persona than Big Scary Guy. Chicken Guy makes a funny harmless clicking noise and drops treats. Chicken Guy is a wonderful person and dogs want to hang out with him. Good things happen to dogs who follow the suggestions of Chicken Guy.

Once your pup has bought into your persona as Chicken Guy, see if you can lure him into a sit. Hold a piece of chicken in front of him and slowly move it up and over his head. Chances are he will tip his head back to watch the chicken. Eventually he will sit to make it easier to look up at the chicken. Click at this exact moment and give him the chicken. Since he is so skittish, don't correct him if he lunges for the chicken. Remember, Chicken Guy's only purpose in life is to bring happiness to dogs by giving them treats. Simply close your hand around the chicken to prevent him from getting access and wait for him to calm down. Then attempt to lure him again. Repeat half a dozen successful sits and then call it quits for that session. After two successful sessions start quietly start saying "sit" at the same time you click when his rump hits the ground. After a few repetitions the dog should now associate the word with the action and the action with getting a click and a tasty treat.

You can teach down the same way. Lure his head down, and then click when he drops his chest to the ground.

For his fearfulness at being handled, gently but deliberately move your hand to his shoulder and touch him. Immediately click, then remove your hand and drop the chicken. Just touch, don't grab. You should be in contact with his shoulder no more than 1/4 second. You are being kind gentle Chicken Guy, not Big Scary Guy. If he retreats or makes any signal that he doesn't want you to touch him, respect his wishes and revert to sit/down exercises. Repeat the touch exercise half a dozen times and call it quits. Do this exercise one or two times a day for a few days, gradually building up duration. Go from 1/4 second to a full second to two seconds. 

After a week or so, see what happens if you very briefly cup your hand under his chest and remove it. Click and treat if he tolerates the contact. Don't push it if he seems jittery. Revert to another trick if needed. Big Scary Guy should not be part of this session. Chicken Guy only wants to make dogs happy. Build duration the same way you did with touching his shoulder. If he seems comfortable, add the word "Lift" as you hold your hand under his chest. Don't actually lift him at this point; just get him used to the idea that the word accompanies you having your hand under his chest.

Eventually you may get to the point where he walks over to you if you cup your hand and say "Lift." Throw a party if that happens. The heavens should rain chicken down upon him. He made the choice to approach you, and Chicken Guy has blessed him in return. 

Once he is thoroughly comfortable being touched under the chest, briefly lift him just high enough that only a few toes still touch the ground and then immediately set him down. I would expect him to look a little startled and anxious now. He may tentatively wag his tail and lick his lips. Reassure him by throwing another Chicken Party. He was a brave dog, and brave dogs earn the blessing of Chicken Guy in the form of lots of treats. See if he will tolerate another brief lift, and give him another Chicken Party. Then call it quits for the day. Repeat the next day with a click and treat for each lift. Increase the height and duration slowly and only if he comes back to you when you set him down. Chicken Guy does not give elevator rides to dogs who don't want to go airborne. At the point where you can cradle him in your arms he should get another Chicken Party. Good things happen to brave dogs when they are held in their master's arms.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Cowpony's description of this process is excellent and definitely worth a try. The idea behind using a clicker is to "mark" the desired behavior with the same inflection and emphasis in each instance. You can click with your mouth by making a sound, or use a word as a marker, such a Yes or Good, but try to say it the same way every time.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

The varying suggestions of ignoring him and engaging him seem conflicting on the surface but there is a key element in common. That is to let him choose when and how he approaches. 

My concern increased when you mentioned that he spends much time hiding. Isolating himself isn't really helpful but forcing him wouldn't be either. 

Trying cowpony's method give him additional reason for engagement and may help bring him out of his discomfort. 

Building confidence in learning new skills, which include that good things happen just by being around someone, will help.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I deliberately introduced the comical Chicken Guy to encourage a playful mentality in these exercises. Continuing in that playful vein, have you ever watched a clown entertaining very small children at a party? Sometimes the kids are nervous. When the clown moves too fast and thrusts a balloon at a nervous kid, the kid may well shriek and retreat. It's definitely Game Over if the clown compounds the error by popping a balloon. What happens, instead, if the clown flamboyantly spins a cotton candy cone and sets it within a kid's reach without approaching the kid? The kid might curiously sample the candy and continue watching the clown from a safe distance. 

Dogs have that same mixture of distrust and curiosity. As with kids, it's ideal if you can harness the curiosity to overcome the distrust. Chicken Guy is the clown trying to win over the timid youngster with a mixture of well timed silliness and sugary treats.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I really like calm, slow, Chicken Guy with the pea size bits of real chicken (or beef, etc), who is quiet, and only stays around for a couple of minutes.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm having an idea which might serve as a trick/training/confidence builder but I'm making some assumptions to get there. I should note that this is not necessarily the short term learning situation that cowpony is describing, but is worth building in. In this case you're training mimicry with no (worse) consequences if he doesn't catch on. 

You wrote


Molodets said:


> since he doesnt know how to ask to go potty outside


I'm assuming that there's a primary door used to get to the outside elimination place. This might be a way to give Munchen a voice to ask. If it works, he'll have learned how to do something that will make everyone very happy. If you've tried this already but without success, keep trying. That worked for me.

Some weeks after bringing our boys home I decided to try hanging a string of bells from the knob of the door to the backyard.

Every time I brought them to the door I'd jingle the bells and say my potty speech to them, "ring the bells, go outside, go pee, go poo". (Some people use a concierge bell on the floor.)

As they got a bit older, I'd take their paw and use it to jingle the bells, always giving the potty speech. I did this for weeks but with no results. I thought about giving up and did become less consistent, but still did this periodically.

One day I was sitting on the loveseat with my back to the door and I suddenly heard the bells jingling. I turned to look and there was Remo with his paw on the bells! We had a major party and got him outside asap .

(He actually had just rung the bells in this photo!)










Once outside we'd walk to the potty spot and the second they started doing their pee or poo I'd exclaim "Good go ___!!", very happy voice, clapping hands, telling them how good they were and, of course, treats.

Both boys still ring the bells if they need to get our attention.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

If he is peeing in the house (and not just when scared), he is likely not housetrained. I recommend being very patient with him and going back to the basics:









Errorless Housetraining


Housesoiling is a spatial problem, involving perfectly normal, natural, and necessary canine behaviors (peeing and pooping) performed in inappropriate places.Housetraining is quickly and easily accomplished by praising your puppy and offering a food treat when she eliminates in an appropriate...




www.dogstardaily.com


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

You really need outside help at this point since it sounds like there is just too much inconsistency in this adolescent dog's time with you. You need to humanely restart house training since it already sounds as if he is well on the way to being a sneaky in house life time peer. He should not have so much freedom as it sounds like he has. You need a crate and an ex pen set up for him. He needs to always be able to go to the crate as a safe space. Don't disrespect that space by pulling him out of the crate. 

One of the things that I think is really hard for toy dogs is that they are always surrounded by out of proportion large things. They need support in learning how to deal with that so getting down to their level and not looming over them is super important. Rather than ignoring this dog I would be a constant source of goodies. Spend some time each day raining treats and letting the dog come to get them as their confidence will allow. You can drop kibble from his daily ration as a trail that leads to you. Let this dog find you sitting quietly and allow them to approach to take the food bits. If he finishes them while close to you scatter some more around your feet. Don't say anything, don't stare and don't reach for him. He will gradually become more confident. I emphasize the gradualness on this. I have worked with shy dogs a few times and I will say this requires extraordinary patience.

There are lots of CPDT-KA and CBCC-KA trainers in the US, especially around major urban centers. Get connected to someone with one of those certifications.ccpdt.org


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

So week passed.
I did ignore him when I walked by, I did pet him gently getting down on his lever. 

I also gave him lots of treats when he approached me. Gave him treats and didnt loom at him.
He does know how to give a paw and how to sit.


And I am not a big guy with deep voice.


He is better now, especially when I ask his to sit and give me paw with treats.

When I hold him, He shakes less when I pick him up but still does, he pees less but still some times does. 

When I come to pet him 4 out of 10 times he is not shy. There is a progress but very slow.

He started to walk around us in the house also. 
My wife takes him outside to potty and he is good about 70%. 30% of the time he still makes accidents in the house.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

This is reassuring and good news. This is actually very good progress in a very short time. Keep doing what you're doing, take it slow as you have been. If he falls back a bit some days, it's normal, so don't worry if that happens. Just keep moving at a pace he's comfortable in and it'll all work out. What makes me believe this is that he'd made progress before so we know he can again. 

You're building trust and confidence. The rest will follow.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Cant wait!
Thanks.
Will give more updates later


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Molodets said:


> I did ignore him when I walked by, I did pet him gently getting down on his lever.





Molodets said:


> He is better now, especially when I ask his to sit and give me paw with treats





Molodets said:


> When I hold him, He shakes less when I pick him up but still does, he pees less but still some times does.





Molodets said:


> When I come to pet him 4 out of 10 times he is not shy.


I know you are trying hard but from what you’ve written, you’re not ignoring him. I’m not blaming you, I just want you to realize that all these things you’re doing are not part of « ignoring » a dog.

You are still pushing thing with him and the acclimation will go faster if you stop doing that and only interact when he specifically goes to you. And when he does, don’t try to get more than what he is giving.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

That is progress but you need to go slower. This may take months to fix.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

When you have a chance, I'd love to see an updated video of some of the progress .


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

I will definitely send you a video


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

By continuing to even look at him and approach him you are only making the whole process take longer. I am so confused as to why you keep pushing. I know it takes a lot of patience and is difficult.


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## Galatiotis (Dec 15, 2020)

Molodets said:


> Here is a video of when He knows Im about to pick him up


Can you please share the video again l?
I tried to watch it but it seems like it was removed from eBay.
I have a mini poodle and his behavior is very similar to your description about your puppy’s behavior


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## Galatiotis (Dec 15, 2020)

I would love to see an updated video! I hope he is doing better


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Updates about my Toy Poodle.

He is not 100% there but.......
He changed a lot. Rarely pees. Plays a lot.
Eats well. He is becoming much much more social and doesnt shiver. He comes to me more then he used to. Much more friendlier.
Also my wife is teaching him to ring a desk bell. When he sees people he reacts fine.

Its all because of you guys.
All credit goes to you because everyone gave excellent advice and has excellent knowledge.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Ill update video soon


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm so glad to hear this positive news.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Molodets said:


> Ill update video soon


Yes, please do, it will be fun to watch his progress. Congratulations on being more patient with him !


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

That is so good to hear and thanks for updating us!


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## Galatiotis (Dec 15, 2020)

Very Positive News!


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## Galatiotis (Dec 15, 2020)

We would love to watch a new video


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

He is much better with me now.
sometime he has accidents and he pees in the house, then when he seesme he starts to shake really hard. He understands that he is not allowed


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

It is sweet to see him interacting with you better. The gentler you become, the more he will do so. Just imagine! At his size you must be a super giant!


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

He still pees when he is afraid.
Will that ever go away?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Try to see the urination as a symptom of his deep insecurity. Address the cause, and it should improve.

Although you’ve made tremendous progress, your little guy still looks very frightened in that video. He is sending you lots of signals—licking and looking away—and he startles at your voice. I’m not surprised he’s still urinating submissively.

You say he “knows” he is not allowed to pee in the house. How does he know? How are you teaching him “yes here, no there”? What method are you using? Even once he’s truly housetrained, he won’t be able to control his urge to go when he is scared. That’s not a conscious decision he’s making.

Have you been in touch with a certified trainer or behaviourist to get some additional support? I couldn’t have navigated Peggy’s puppyhood without help. Even a session or two—can even be done remotely—could be hugely beneficial.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

When he peed inside of the house before, 
I would firmly tell him “No”
And when he did pee in the correct spot, I would say good boy in happy way and gave him 2 to 3 beef liver treats.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Molodets said:


> When he peed inside of the house before,
> I would firmly tell him “No”
> And when he did pee in the correct spot, I would say good boy in happy way and gave him 2 to 3 beef liver treats.


Please go back to that errorless housetraining link I provided.

You are on the right track with the rewards (assuming they’re being delivered the moment he is done peeing, while he’s still in roughly the same spot). But that firm “No” is not only unnecessary, it’s doing damage to your progress.


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## Galatiotis (Dec 15, 2020)

Molodets said:


> He still pees when he is afraid.
> Will that ever go away?


He is probably terrified by something and this is why he pees...
What makes him to be so afraid?


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

We havent done anything bad to him.
I think thats just the way he is.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Sorry, your FIRM NO'S were apparently vastly stronger than your 'good boys'


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

I stopped being firm with him Long time ago.




kontiki said:


> Sorry, your FIRM NO'S were apparently vastly stronger than your 'good boys'


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

My dog remembers everything that has ever happened to him by every person from when I got him at 13 weeks. He knows exactly who to trust and who to avoid.


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## buddyrose (Jul 27, 2011)

Molodets, I rescued a tiny 4 year old Tpoo. Because he was so little people would pick him up, quickly, with one hand. Not only did that frighten him but I would watch his head snap down. It reminded me of whiplash from car accidents. As he got older, he had back problems so I got him x-rayed. He had 3 slipped disc's in his neck.
When you pick up your tiny dog, put one hand under his belly and the other hand by his chest & chin so his head doesn't snap down. He could be frightened and feeling a little pain if he's not picked up slowly & safely.
People treat toy breeds as though they were actual toys. We all know they are delicate & can get injured easily.


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## Galatiotis (Dec 15, 2020)

We would love to see an updated video


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

He still pees when I come close to him and when he sees unfamiliar people.
So we decided to buy him diapers.
When he pees we ignore and dont get annoyed.
I think this will help him with time to over come the fear.

p.s he is well potty trained.


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

He still pees. but diaper helps.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

It took my Remo a long time to stop that for most circumstances but it can still happen only at the vet. Can't really blame him for that. He wasn't at all mistreated but some of his early visits were definitely not fun.


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## Galatiotis (Dec 15, 2020)

Molodets said:


> He still pees. but diaper helps.
> 
> View attachment 479213
> 
> View attachment 479212


He is so cute


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## Molodets (Dec 25, 2020)

Still wearing diapers because he pees when I come to him.

So That he doesnt see me getting upset or frustrated we put on diapers. Hopefully he will completely!!! Stop!!! Peeing soon!!!


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## Tulsi (Jun 8, 2021)

Good idea to do something that makes you more relaxed.

Never seen a dog in a nappy before!


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