# A Nearly Deadly Walk



## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Wow! I am so sorry this happened and so thankful everyone is ok! If I were you I would call the dog control and ask if they gave them your address or something, cause that seems very scary that the people actually came to your home. Thank goodness little Cash was not there! I would just be so worried about those people knowing where I live. 


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## Caniche (Jun 10, 2013)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> Wow! I am so sorry this happened and so thankful everyone is ok! If I were you I would call the dog control and ask if they gave them your address or something, cause that seems very scary that the people actually came to your home. Thank goodness little Cash was not there! I would just be so worried about those people knowing where I live.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


We did talk to dog control and they did not give her my address - they had not even visited her yet when she came to my house! There were neighbors outside when we called dog control (we called from where the incident occurred) and we gave our address, so I'm wondering if it was passed along. 

And if she comes over again I *will* call the police. I don't like people knowing where I live either!


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## KellyL (Apr 17, 2013)

It certainly could have been worse. Glad you all are ok. I had a similar thing happen a few yrs back. I was walking with a friend and her springer spaniel. As we walked by a row of townhouses, a lab/shepherd cross type dog came out running and barking in our direction. The dog right away starts biting my friends dog. It was very scary as we had to kick at this other dog while my friend is trying to shield her dog. Finally the owner came out (it seemed like it took forever) and was very apologetic. My friends dog was very lucky it wasn't worse than the few bites she got. 
And you were right to report this.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Glad you are all ok. That is so very scarey. Isn't always the case that the (irresponsible) owner always reacts in a defensive way? Typical in my opinion. I am glad you and the pup are ok.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

It happens so fast, right? When our neighbors Pitt Bull entered my house and killed my 3 pound chihuahua, Isabel, on October 19, it was so quick! The Pitt's owners bought us Misha, I guess it was too soon, because my 27 year old daughter has never bonded with Misha. She just keeps saying she wants Isabel back. So sad. Misha is totally bonded to me now, and me to her.


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

You might be interested in this thread:

http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/20263-sugarfoot-attacked-pit-bull.html

Unfortunately, the story you tell is far from uncommon. 

Glad everyone is okay, and glad you called animal control and they actually *did* something. Keep a close eye on everything and don't hesitate to call the police if she dares approach you again.

--Q


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> It happens so fast, right? When our neighbors Pitt Bull entered my house and killed my 3 pound chihuahua, Isabel, on October 19, it was so quick! The Pitt's owners bought us Misha, I guess it was too soon, because my 27 year old daughter has never bonded with Misha. She just keeps saying she wants Isabel back. So sad. Misha is totally bonded to me now, and me to her.


So sorry to hear about Isabel - what a nightmare!
Your daughter's reaction is completely understandable - grieving, especially due to a traumatic event such as this, can take a very long time to work through...


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

So sorry that this happened to you!
Personally, if I had to walk my dogs someplace that this could happen, I definitely carry some things - large, pop open umbrella, and an air horn for scaring a dog off, a pocket full of treats to throw as a distraction, and a switchblade for use if those things fail...


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## Petitpie'sDH (Mar 22, 2013)

I'm so sorry that this happened to you, and i'm glad things didn't turn out worse than they did. I think you did everything right to protect your dog and yourself. On the rare occasions when I have to walk Oreo outside of our own yard, I am always prepared to "scoop" her up if necessary. I am also usually prepared to fend off attackers.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Oh Mischief....I am so sorry what happened to you. That's just outrageous!!!!

Caniche, You were lucky it wasn't worse. It sure could have been. You're absolutely right to report this. How dare that woman react that way. And to know where you live is down right creepy. Why in the world would someone tell her, if they told her? If she ever comes around, I wouldn't answer the door...just call the police. Maybe put a no trespassing sign out. That way if she does come around, she can be in trouble. Isn't it amazing how people who are clearly in the wrong can't just admit it? Wow! What a low brow!

I'm just glad no one was hurt or killed.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Caniche said:


> We did talk to dog control and they did not give her my address - they had not even visited her yet when she came to my house! There were neighbors outside when we called dog control (we called from where the incident occurred) and we gave our address, so I'm wondering if it was passed along.
> 
> And if she comes over again I *will* call the police. I don't like people knowing where I live either!


I didn't think the dog control would give out your address. It makes much more since that the neighbors passed it on. I definitely would call the cops if she came over again. Maybe even before to give them a heads up about the incident. Our city police suck and will take up to 6 hours to respond to a call, but you probably have a better police force where you are. Again I am so glad everyone is ok. 


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> It happens so fast, right? When our neighbors Pitt Bull entered my house and killed my 3 pound chihuahua, Isabel, on October 19, it was so quick! The Pitt's owners bought us Misha, I guess it was too soon, because my 27 year old daughter has never bonded with Misha. She just keeps saying she wants Isabel back. So sad. Misha is totally bonded to me now, and me to her.


I am so sorry this happened to you. That is what happened to my first Toy Poodle, Carmel. On May 31 2011 my neighbors Pitt, Shar Pei cross scaled a 6 ft fence grabbed him by the neck and took him back to her yard. The worst part is when the man first moved in he told us "you need to build a solid fence because my dogs will tear your dog through the fence and rip them up." Well unfortunately that didn't stop them. He knew his dogs were extremely aggressive and was proud of it. He said he purposely makes them that way. He even had the balls to come to my work one day and "say sorry, but it was Carmel's own fault for being so close to the fence." 
It was nice of the Pitts owners to buy you Misha, it shows that they were truly sorry about what happened. If you don't mind me asking was anything done to the Pitt that killed Isabel? You don't have to answer if you don't want to. I am just curious because they did nothing about the one that killed Carmel, they just required that his male be neutered and he wasn't even the one that did anything. 
I hope your daughter will find a dog she can bond with like she did with Isabel. I know getting Branna sure helped me grieve the loss of Carmel. But it was half a year later when I got her, so it does take time, I think that is the worst part about the grieving process. 


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

glad you and yours were unharmed and sorry to hear about everyone else's unhappy experiences. aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners seem to be the rule rather than the exception. the basic excuse for being so irresponsible is that their dog would "never" hurt you or your family member or your pet, while those who deliberately cultivate any aggressive tendencies in their dogs have, imo, serious psychological problems and need some kind of therapy themselves. for now, though, it's just good to hear you are all safe.


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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

Omar and my husband were attacked by a "friendly" chocolate lab. Fortunately Omar was in a harness and hubby picked him up and hoisted him over his head while the lab was snapping teeth. The owner came out be told us the dog was friendly! Seriously? We actually ended up moving to a new neighborhood after that and a few other incidents. We now have a fenced yard and never walk our dogs for fear of big dogs. It is a shame as the kids loved walking. 


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Omg!! I'm so glad everyone is ok, how scary!!!!

Id always try to save my dogs, even though they are over 55lbs. I know it's stupid of me, but I'd kick the dog that is attacking them like my life depends on it, I'd kick the crap out of it and try to get my dog under me and kneel on the floor and cover my head or something... Omg this scares me so much...
Thats why I dont walk my dogs, I chose a house with a huge fenced in backyard to play fetch and for them to run and play!!
There is always this huge mastiff around the corner, I dont trust him and am not willing to risk him not liking my poodles or something and attacking.


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## QueenElizabeth (Jul 31, 2013)

Caniche said:


> Yesterday my mom and I took our dogs for a walk. Cash was not with us since he weighs two pounds and can’t quite keep up. Ryker, my 7lb toy and my mom’s dog, Mya a poodle mix, was with us. My 18 month old nephew and a friend’s child, who is 3, was with us as well.
> 
> There’s a housing track almost next to our house, so we usually walk there since there’s less traffic. On our way back home, we saw a shepherd mix in the front yard of one of the house. I did not see a collar on the dog or that he was tied up. We were across the street.
> 
> ...


Oh my god! I would definitely recommend pepper spray. Let me know if you find a small convenient size and a good place to buy it. 

Whenever I'm walking dogs, I frequently intervene before things can escalate dangerously, whenever I feel uncomfortable. Of course I have never had such a vicious encounter and I don't know if what I do would have worked for you.

Everything I do I learned from Ceasar Millan. First of all, I remember to stay calm (shoulders down) and walk with head up, checking leash to keep my dog healing. It basically says "we are not interested in meeting you, nor are we easily bullied." If another dog tries to sniff mine, and either of us is uncomfortable, I walk in between them, pushing the other dog aside with my body. Finally, if I really want the dog to back off, go away, or half its advance, I take a full step towards it, allowing my dog to stay behind. While I step, I look at the dog firmly, point at it, or say "Hey!" In a dominant voice. They always stop or run off. The other day a barking dog laid down and shut up, lol. This also makes it clear to the owner that you are UNCOMFORTABLE and their dog's behavior is inappropriate. I have never had a dog owner become angry with me for this. 

Now I've never experienced what happened to you - you handled it very well. I probably would have screamed bloody murder and took off running. >.< 

Rykker was assaulted and you were very threatened. Your reaction was appropriate. The owner is a moron. I recommend avoiding that house altogether - it will get out again, and a strange dog that is going to jump at your is nonsense. I wish they were going to get fined a heck of a lot more.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Oh, the dog was destroyed! I am HAPPY to report. The dog had attacked before, only it was a human, the mail carrier. I don't know how seriously. The dog didn't bite me, but when I was trying to pry her jaws open my hands were severely cut up on the Pitts teeth. Fire department came out and cleaned them up and I ended up in the ER, but just for more cleaning and antibiotics and pain pills. The dog hadn't been vaccinated so they put it in quarantine for 10 days before destroying her.

My two girls were kicking the dog, I was trying to get it to let go, my husband was trying to get to his gun but wasn't in time. Isabel died on the vets table, the pitt had punctured her lungs and they filled with blood.

The Pitt's owners were actually great. The woman came down when she saw all the police and fire trucks in front of my house. She said she just "knew" it was her dog. She tried to apologize and they were literally having to hold me back, I wanted to rip her eyes out! And I am a very mello, subdued person. The words that came out of my mouth! She came to my door the next day, when I had calmed a bit. Her gang member boyfriend with tattoos all over her head and neck and face was with her. He started to cry....was upset because the dog could have gotten my grand daughter who was on the other side of a baby gate. They paid my vet bills, offered to pay my medical bills, and said they would buy a new puppy. All without us having to ask.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> Oh, the dog was destroyed! I am HAPPY to report. The dog had attacked before, only it was a human, the mail carrier. I don't know how seriously. The dog didn't bite me, but when I was trying to pry her jaws open my hands were severely cut up on the Pitts teeth. Fire department came out and cleaned them up and I ended up in the ER, but just for more cleaning and antibiotics and pain pills. The dog hadn't been vaccinated so they put it in quarantine for 10 days before destroying her.
> 
> My two girls were kicking the dog, I was trying to get it to let go, my husband was trying to get to his gun but wasn't in time. Isabel died on the vets table, the pitt had punctured her lungs and they filled with blood.
> 
> The Pitt's owners were actually great. The woman came down when she saw all the police and fire trucks in front of my house. She said she just "knew" it was her dog. She tried to apologize and they were literally having to hold me back, I wanted to rip her eyes out! And I am a very mello, subdued person. The words that came out of my mouth! She came to my door the next day, when I had calmed a bit. Her gang member boyfriend with tattoos all over her head and neck and face was with her. He started to cry....was upset because the dog could have gotten my grand daughter who was on the other side of a baby gate. They paid my vet bills, offered to pay my medical bills, and said they would buy a new puppy. All without us having to ask.


I don't want to say that's good because it sounds so mean but I am going to, That's good! If I were there when it happened to my Carmel I probably would have done the exact same thing you did. Although I might have used that gun if it were available so I guess it's a good thing I wasn't there. Thankfully it was quick for Carmel, (she broke his neck instantly with the impact) so he didn't have to suffer. 
I sure wish she was destroyed, she was allowed to live and ended up killing two more dogs. One was a Pitt puppy that he got. After she killed that one he got mad and choked her to death. It makes me sad that she was allowed to take more lives and that she had to die such a horrible way herself. Even though she did horrible things I don't blame her for them I blame her owner, but I do feel that she no longer belonged in this world, I wish she was allowed to move on in a less painful and scary way. She never bit a human so that is why I'm guessing she got to live. 
Dog bites are ridiculously bacteria ridden, most end up abscessing if not cleaned very very well and if no antibiotics are taken. Branna was bitten once,she was cleaned up right away and put on a heavy dose of antibiotics and she still abscessed. So it's good that you got cleaned up so well. 
It sounds like even though they had a horrible dog they are decent people. My neighbor is just the scum if the earth and couldn't be bothered to care, until the same thing happened to his dog I guess. 


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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

If you can't find pepper spray locally contact your police department and they can tell you where to buy some. I am a realtor and always keep mine handy. 


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> I
> I sure wish she was destroyed, she was allowed to live and ended up killing two more dogs. One was a Pitt puppy that he got. After she killed that one he got mad and choked her to death. It makes me sad that she was allowed to take more lives and that she had to die such a horrible way herself. Even though she did horrible things I don't blame her for them I blame her owner, but I do feel that she no longer belonged in this world, I wish she was allowed to move on in a less painful and scary way. She never bit a human so that is why I'm guessing she got to live.
> ...My neighbor is just the scum if the earth and couldn't be bothered to care, until the same thing happened to his dog I guess.
> 
> ...


i cannot believe people like this get away with their behavior. there is something seriously wrong with someone who encourages aggression and then chokes his own dog to death. i would move out of the neighborhood just to get away from someone like that. he is a "red zone" case and there will be worse to come.


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

Caniche said:


> So I just wanted to share this story and remind everyone who has small dogs that *we always have to keep an eye on our own dog….and everyone else’s.*


Way to go on calling the animal control on those people!!! It is your right to do so and if they tried to blame you, tell them to get off your property before you call the cops on them. Some people are just idiots. 

I'm sorry but I'm flared up by this as I have incident similar like yours twice in my so-called "good" neighborhood. Charlie is on flexi-leash so every time I see another dog coming up from another block, I would either scoop him up or shorten the leash.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlemama99 said:


> If you can't find pepper spray locally contact your police department and they can tell you where to buy some. I am a realtor and always keep mine handy.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I just recently read an article that said pepper spray was a bad idea - both because the wind could blow it back in your face and because it could fuel rather stop aggression in a dog in serous attack mode - they said that the air horn is most effective. I would get that, and I know that this sounds horrible - but a long knife with a plan to drive it through the eye into the brain - in a life or death situation, I don't think that you even have time to waste while it bleeds out...


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Thankfully it was quick for Carmel, (she broke his neck instantly with the impact) so he didn't have to suffer. 



I am so sorry for your Carmel. There isn't a day that goes by that the whole incident doesn't run through my mind. The "if only" and "what if"'s. 

Your neighbor sounds awful! Scary person. Sounds like someone to watch out for! Teach your dog to kill, then kill it when it does....definitely not playing with a full deck!:bird:


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

patk said:


> i cannot believe people like this get away with their behavior. there is something seriously wrong with someone who encourages aggression and then chokes his own dog to death. i would move out of the neighborhood just to get away from someone like that. he is a "red zone" case and there will be worse to come.


Me either, it really makes me sick knowing that he is still allowed to own dogs. If I could make it so he couldn't own animals ever again I would. We have looked into moving more and more. At this point it just isn't possible for us, plus we will have lived in this house for 13 years come September and it is really hard to think about leaving it. We have made so many memories here! There has already been more to come incidents, from stalking us, to threatening our lives, to turning us in to various city departments. Finally we had a Cease and Desist letter sent to him and have not heard a peep out of him until recently. He has been in jail and is extremely terrified of cops and legal stuff. He can not hold a job because of his drug use so he might have to move up north to live with his sister, so we are praying and crossing our fingers that he does. 


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> Thankfully it was quick for Carmel, (she broke his neck instantly with the impact) so he didn't have to suffer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do the same thing. If only I didn't leave that day, if only I had put him in the kennel. I think it is a normal thing for humans to do. 
He really is a scary person. I am very anti gun but because of him we started keeping guns in our house. I am sure he has mental issues, either from the drug use or genetics who knows but he is not a sane man. 


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I just recently read an article that said pepper spray was a bad idea - both because the wind could blow it back in your face and because it could fuel rather stop aggression in a dog in serous attack mode - they said that the air horn is most effective. I would get that, and I know that this sounds horrible - but a long knife with a plan to drive it through the eye into the brain - in a life or death situation, I don't think that you even have time to waste while it bleeds out...
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I think I saw or read something about pepper spray being a bad idea too. I wonder if a stun gun would work? I have one and carry it with me around Campus but I wonder if I should carry it on walks now. 


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Oh, if you already have it, I would definitely carry it.
And yes you are correct, the "what if's" are a very normal part of the grief process that we all go through.


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## Caniche (Jun 10, 2013)

Thank you all for your input and concerns. It's great to get support and advice during this whole ordeal. The dog warden thinks the owner will plead guilty, but if not I will have to go to court to testify. I could have made a "dangerous dog" complaint (this means the owner would be forced to install a containment area, keep the dog tied up, or euthanized in extreme situations) but unfortunately, forcing a dog to be contained would only be considered if the dog seriously hurts someone. Because that makes sense - let's keep the dog tied up or fenced in AFTER he sheds blood.

I'm *so* sorry about what happened to Isabel and Carmel. Ryker is my first dog (*my* dog, not a family dog) and I'd be inconsolable if something happened to him. I cannot imagine, and even doing so makes me nauseous and upset. 

We also live next to a psycho neighbor, but a new fence this summer has quelled that disaster for now. 

While walking, if a dog isn't tied up, I always pick up Ryker. You never know what another dog is going to do - and a motivated dog will break through Invisible Fence (which is why I'm against Invisible Fence, but that's another issue). If there's another dog on the sidewalk we don't know, we cross the street.


Unfortunately, Ryker is a barker. He is very protective and reactive towards other dogs. Thankfully, we've been working on that and he is much better - he only barks at a dog that is barking at him now. We're training every day to keep him calm around other dogs.

The day this happened, however, Ryker knew something was up. He barked or even looked at this shepherd mix. He was instantly scared - which tells me something. 

We live in a suburban area with less than 10,000 residents in town - and there's a lot of farmland on the outskirts. We live on the busiest road, but we still love to take walks because it stimulates the dogs so well. Also, it gets our human butts some exercise and fresh air. 

Still, our town has a bad history with dog attacks because people think loose dogs aren't a big deal in a small town. Also, the town is below the poverty line and a lot of people don't spay or neuter (I'm just saying, if people were forced to spay or neuter (unless a responsible breeder) then a lot of dog problems in communities would be fixed).

I do have pepper spray, you can buy it online - just make sure it's legal in your state. BUT, 9 times out of 10, there is blowback with pepper spray and can hurt the user just as much as the target.

I'd imagine a stun gun might work, but I'm not sure how high the voltage would have to be. Also, to get the attacker to let go, it'd have to be pressed against a dog's skin long enough to make an impact. That puts you bending over the dog and trying
to hold it against him long enough. As tragic as it'd be, a quick blow with a knife would be faster and more effective. 

Personally, as upsetting as this may sound, I'm not sure I'd risk mine or my dog's life on an air horn either. I've heard that to break up a fight, you should yank hard on the aggressor's tail or stomp hard on its paws. But if you're dealing with a large dog attacking a small dog, I'd want the small dog off the ground ASAP. While I would never recommend this to someone who is not comfortable with these weapons, I'm now considering bringing a safety knife with us on walks or even a pistol - I'm a pistol permit holder and comfortable carrying. Again, I'm not recommending this to people who are not comfortable with these items. Carrying a deadly weapon is a serious thing and should not be considered lightly. For me, though, I think I'm going to be prepared to use deadly force on a vicious dog
to protect me, my family, and my pets.




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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Oh yes, if you have a permit and are comfortable with carrying it, and using it, a pistol is your best bet. I think the air horn would be the thing to use if the dog is coming at you, but has not arrived yet - would definitely use more deadly force if the dog is already on you!


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

I have guns, but I live in a very congested area. I would not feel comfortable firing it (unless someone entered my house, then I have NO PROBLEM) but I do now carry a knife. I think though in hindsight, that the dog grabbed Isabel so very fast and the one and only bite did her in. I may have been able to get the dog to let go by stabbing it, but it was already too late for Isabel.


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## Abbe gails Mom (Nov 8, 2012)

When I worked Security, I all ways told the Ladies who had to walk out at night by there selves to NOT Use Pepper Spray , you have to let the Other person ( or Animal ) Get to close to you, and some times you miss, that can get you killed, Use Wasp & Hornet Spray, you can get them right in the Face, Very Easy , with no problem, and It Blinds them for a little while, so you can get away, Some areas the police asks for a permission to carry Pepper spray, NO One Cares if you have Wasp Spray.
And the Spray has a 20 FT.RANGE.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> I have guns, but I live in a very congested area. I would not feel comfortable firing it (unless someone entered my house, then I have NO PROBLEM) but I do now carry a knife. I think though in hindsight, that the dog grabbed Isabel so very fast and the one and only bite did her in. I may have been able to get the dog to let go by stabbing it, but it was already too late for Isabel.


It's true, most of the time these things happen so fast - there is no way on earth that anyone could have reacted fast enough to change what happened to poor Isabel. 
But maybe, some of the time when you are outside, you might have a COUPLE of seconds to react...but not always, because there are lots of things to pay attention to outside...it would almost be like you would have to have your finger on the trigger as you walked, and of course you can't do that...
For me, the biggest problem is in the elevator because it is such a tight space - there is one guy in the building with a pit that I have had to complain about twice, and he has been better since then, but always try my best not to get near them... but that is one of the advantages of an apartment building - you have management to intervene.


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## Ciscley (Jul 16, 2013)

So sorry for everyone who's lost a dog in such a violent way. And so glad Ryker is okay. I won't say too much about my own thoughts on violent dogs and their owners because I'm sure if I did say what I think, when this finally happens to me, my lawyer will really wish I hadn't.

I will say I grew up in a very urban city and so it's been so strange for me getting used to the human dynamics of first living in the suburbs and now being closer to cows and corn than people. Everyone assumes they are so safe out here and yet it's that assumption that I think makes us less safe. 

When I was growing up, everyone answered the door with their gun at hand if they weren't expecting someone. We had bars on all our windows and doors and an 8 foot privacy fence. I still lock my car door as soon as I close it, regardless of whether I'm in my drive way or the church parking lot.

And yet, I swear, we walked everywhere safely there. My grandmother was in her seventies when she passed and the week before she was diagnosed with cancer she was still taking her toy poodle for 5 mile daily walks. She carried a large stick and tried to always walk with a friend, but rain or shine she walked. 

Now I can't even walk my vested service dogs into a no-dogs allowed shopping center without having to keep uncontrolled dogs off us. People always think it's not THEIR dogs that are the problem.


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## Caniche (Jun 10, 2013)

Just a quick update - I've posted on here earlier stating that Ryker can be dog aggressive (although he didn't so much as make eye contact with the dog
that attacked us). While he never gets violent, he barks at every dog - and most people - we see. Today we took a walk (a different route from where the incident occurred. We will still walk there though - I've been walking
that route for 23 years) and walked by three large mastiffs tied up outside and with the command Ryker didn't bark once! We also walked by a man with a medium mixed breed, a tied up husky, and a shih-tzu and not a peep! 


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## Carrie-e (Oct 23, 2012)

How terrifying,and how on earth could the woman have been 100% sure that the dog would not have bitten either you,the children with you or your dog. I am always wary when I see big dogs off the lead as my mini pup is very small and cold easily be hurt,so I always pick her up if I am unsure. To be honest I think it's good the woman is being fined,perhaps that will make her be a more responsible dog owner,and think twice about keeping her dog under control. I'm sorry you had such a frightening experience and I think you should carry a spray with you for protection.


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## Carrie-e (Oct 23, 2012)

I am so sorry what happened to Isabel, I don't know how you ever get over something like that.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

These stories are so sad. I used to think it wasn't the pit, it was the owner. However, after my daughter got bit twice by the same pit, I changed my mind. This dog has had the best of care and loved dearly and yet he has bit my daughter twice and a cable man. He has not been put down and the couple that own him are expecting a baby. I don't know what they are thinking. My daughter has the scar on her side to show that the dog is a danger to anyone he comes in contact with... she gave him a pass the first time, thinking it was because he was upset his owner was not home ect. The 2nd time, she was feeding him steak, feeling okay with him until he jumped on her, causing her to get stiff and then he attacked. His owner was right there and got him off of her, but it was too late.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Thank you for your condolences about Carmel. It was definitely the worst thing that ever happened to me. 
Yes we also put up a larger more solid fence right after we sent the Cease and Desist letter and I think it was those two things that helped. It's amazing what a fence can do! 
I think I will carry my stun gun just incase and maybe a big stick or something when I walk. I don't think I would be able to use a knife and I would be quite uncomfortable carrying one. Weird I know. :/ and a gun is definitely out of the question for me, like I said earlier I am very Anti-gun. 
I have people tell me all the time that their dogs are nice and would never hurt anything, after the third time Branna was attacked by a dog that "would never hurt anything" I now tell owners "I am sure that is true, but my tiny dogs seem to bring out the prey drive instinct in even the most docile dog, I would appreciate it if you kept your dog away or under control." 


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I am so glad to hear you are both ok! Loose dogs are not something I have to deal with as my apt grounds have plenty of room for Molly to roam......but when we are out in a public place like an outdoor mall I have to agree with others that big dogs(mostly pits in my area) seem to think Molly is a prey item! Since I use a rollerator to walk it sometimes takes me a few seconds to pick her up to "save" her, so I always have my doggy radar working when we are out! I am lucky that she is not reactive because I'm sure that would make it worse! I just don't understand why, if you own such an DA breed, you don't learn/train how to control them....I don't hate any breed, but I am wary of all guardian type breeds because of my early Tech days!
My biggest pet peeve is "Oh, he won't hurt you"......I'd rather not bet on it!


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

Carley's Mom said:


> These stories are so sad. I used to think it wasn't the pit, it was the owner. However, after my daughter got bit twice by the same pit, I changed my mind. This dog has had the best of care and loved dearly and yet he has bit my daughter twice and a cable man. He has not been put down and the couple that own him are expecting a baby. I don't know what they are thinking. My daughter has the scar on her side to show that the dog is a danger to anyone he comes in contact with... she gave him a pass the first time, thinking it was because he was upset his owner was not home ect. The 2nd time, she was feeding him steak, feeling okay with him until he jumped on her, causing her to get stiff and then he attacked. His owner was right there and got him off of her, but it was too late.


i agree that often it is the nature of the dog. it outraged me when an elderly woman in my complex was attacked by a dog to hear the sanctimonious remarks about the owner. the owner and his family were in shock as well and had never tried to encourage aggression in their dog. there is one difference, however: they ultimately had their dog put down; the wife and daughter had become afraid of the dog's unpredictable behavior. the owners in your example are, however, at fault. clearly they cannot control their dog and have not yet admitted it to themselves. it that case, they are very likely going to end up being responsible for a tragic outcome.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

patk said:


> i agree that often it is the nature of the dog. it outraged me when an elderly woman in my complex was attacked by a dog to hear the sanctimonious remarks about the owner. the owner and his family were in shock as well and had never tried to encourage aggression in their dog. there is one difference, however: they ultimately had their dog put down; the wife and daughter had become afraid of the dog's unpredictable behavior. the owners in your example are, however, at fault. clearly they cannot control their dog and have not yet admitted it to themselves. it that case, they are very likely going to end up being responsible for a tragic outcome.


Yup, that Pit that I was speaking of in my building - when he was a puppy - maybe 10 - 15 pounds - I got in the elevator with them, I looked at him and said "Hi baby", and the dog jumped in the air, grabbing the bottom half of my face in it's mouth - fortunately, it did not get a chance to bite down before he fell to the ground. But what made be blow a gasket was when I said to the Owner "so, are you planning on taking some training classes with him", he replied "well no, you see I really don't believe in those - I think that it is important that when we are out that people don't over stimulate him, if they don't do that, he will be fine"!!!!
And another time, when the dog was grown, he was on the elevator, with the dog standing there off leash to the entrance of the elevator, and I had my dogs in a bag - I asked him to get has dog and he refused, and waved me off!
As a dog owner I hate to make complaints about other people's dogs, but I really felt that this one is a disaster in the making, and made complaints both times!


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## Caniche (Jun 10, 2013)

I never feel bad making complaints - I always think: "What if I don't say something and a dog ends up dead or a child bit?" 

I've actually done some research into pit bulls and guardian breeds. Dog fighting is the main issue in these instances. Aggressive dogs will be bred to create more aggressive dogs - which are better fighters. Breeding for looks is also an issue. I've actually seen research where blue nose Pitts are bred because they look unique. The problem? There's an aggressive gene in the blue nose generic makeup, so the dogs are more likely to be aggressive. 

I do not think one breed in inherently bad - I've seen plenty of bully breeds who are as soft as a teddy bear. But it takes the right owner who is knowledgable about the breed and is ready, willing and prepared to work with that dog for its entire life. 


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

O.k. guys, this is perfect timing! I obviously have PTSD from the whole Isabel incident. So tonight my daughters friend is bringing her Pitt Bull over for a nail trim. This is a nice dog. My daughter called and asked me to put all the dogs in the bedroom, just in case. I did. I just sat back down on the couch and I am dizzy and my heart is pounding and I feel nauseated. It is amazing what something like that can do to you!


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

who is doing the nail trimming? you? have you done it before with this dog? it is always possible to put a muzzle on a dog if you think it's a biter.

not all pits are automatically fierce and aggressive, but it is part of the breeding of many, something which i think we need to admit. i am against the current romanticizing about pits getting a bad rap. they were bred over many generations to fight, though not all will be blindly aggressive. but to underestimate the potential for aggression before really knowing the dog is a serious mistake.

so take care. if you are doing the nail trimming and are still nervous, use the muzzle. your feelings will be picked up by the dog and could trigger an adverse reaction.


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## Caniche (Jun 10, 2013)

I completely understand that you have PTSD! I had a fraction of what you went through and when we took a walk today I was on high alert....does that dog's rope look long enough? How long would it take me to pick up Ryker? How fast can I open the pepper spray? Are the owners home? 
So you having PTSD is completely understandable. 


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

My daughter works at a groom shop and has done this dogs nails before with no problem. I guess her owner took her somewhere else and the dog "wasn't having it", so she brought her back here. I held the leash and my daughter did the nails and Lulu didn't even flinch. Was absolutely perfect. I stood and made myself pet her and sat with her for awhile, kind of a desensitizing for me, lol. She is gone now. *big sigh*


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

Wow, I sure wish these dog-attack threads were more unusual. :sad:


The one pit bull on my block moved out, so I feel good about that. Panda and I have actually been charged by several off-leash dogs lately, but none wanted to attack, just sniff. In all the cases, the owner was there, but the dog had gotten away from them. Owners in that situation should call out that their dog is friendly if it is. That would not only save me a lot of stress, it might save their dog's life, because I will attack/kill an attacking dog if I feel I have to to protect Panda. All the owners stood their silently while their dogs charged.


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## Ciscley (Jul 16, 2013)

I thought of this thread today when walking Danno & Desi together for the first time. A neighbor's english setter got loose and charged us in the street. Luckily dogs are about the only thing Danno is not scared of, and once the dog got close enough to see how big Danno really is, he veered away from us and just started sniffing around us.

The owner, a large tall man, gave me the usual, "He's friendly" schpiel but then proceeded to be completely unable to retrieve or otherwise control his dog. And I'm standing there, a barely 5'2 female with two dogs, one of whom is larger and stronger than his completely under control. I don't understand. When did putting a leash on your dog when you let them out your front door become so passé? As soon as my 13 year old border collie doesn't respond to vocal command, she goes back on leash - IN OUR YARD. I don't ever take her in the neighborhood off leash because it's against the law! 

Why does everyone think their dog is the exception? Even if your dog is amazeballs off leash, it's the law to be on leash. 

This dog was gorgeous and clearly a pure bred. He was the spitting image of the breed profile. Why would you risk your dog being hit by a car, bit by my dog who may NOT be friendly or even lost / stolen? Why? It's such a preventable thing. I just don't understand the mentality.


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## Carrie-e (Oct 23, 2012)

I was at a private training session yesterday in a fenced area of heathland with a very nice trainer,when a lady came in with five dogs,an afghan,a lab,a collie and two small terriers. Billy my standard was on the lead and we were standing doing some training. The afghan trotted off,but the collie and lab and little dogs came over and the collies hackles were up,he was growling and the the dogs kind of circled round poor old Billy who was most uncomfortable and tried to walk behind me,he is very friendly with other dogs,but this collie was not friendly and the others were in a gang. My trainer had to end up swinging her bag at the collie as he was lunging at billy and the woman walking them wasn't any where near them. She apologised when she did eventually get to us. We went out of he enclosure and over to the trainers van,she wasn't happy with this woman,and we were talking and booking further sessions when what do you know the collie appeared again growling,the woman no where around again,unbeliebvable. Me and the trainer shooed the collie away and the woman walked past with the afghan,didn't say a thing. She had no control of those dogs,it was ridiculous,and there are so many people about like that unfortunately.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I never trust it when people say their dog is friendly. Unfortunately some people with aggressive dogs refuse to acknowledge this. In a recreational agility class a woman came with her pit bull. The dog started growling at the Scottie next to her in line. The pit bull owner blamed the Scottie saying he was looking aggressively at her pit and her pit was scared and that is why she was growling. So the Scottie owner switched places with me. I was careful to keep a distance from the pit and also made sure Swizzle did not make eye contact with the pit. After a short while the pit started growling and lunging at Swizzle. Once again the pit's owner started to blame my dog. I interrupted her and said "surely you are not going to suggest that my toy is frightening your pit?" At that she said people make assumptions based on pit's reputations. I just gave her a look and kept a healthy distance. We have another pit owner in class but she constantly monitors her dog behavior even though it has not shown aggression to other dogs. Her dog is very sweet but she is very aware that her large dog could hurt a smaller dog just by getting over excited. 

It is very scary hearing of these dog attacks and heartbreaking that some of you have witnessed your dog's death. I still am struggling with how to protect Swizzle. I would pick him up of course but them I am afraid I would freeze as I have been attacked by dogs twice. I like the idea of the bee spray but wish it came in smaller cans. It seems cumbersome to carry an umbrella.


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

Anyone familiar with DogsBite.org? Here is their "about us" page.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> My daughter works at a groom shop and has done this dogs nails before with no problem. I guess her owner took her somewhere else and the dog "wasn't having it", so she brought her back here. I held the leash and my daughter did the nails and Lulu didn't even flinch. Was absolutely perfect. I stood and made myself pet her and sat with her for awhile, kind of a desensitizing for me, lol. She is gone now. *big sigh*


You did good - if it had been me, I don't think that I would have let the dog in the house - would have made my daughter do it outside...

Once, when I lived in a different apartment, Teaka slipped out the door while I was bringing groceries in - I put the groceries away before I realized she wasn't there. I threw open my front door only to see a guy silently trying to corner her, as she dodged him. I called *TEAKA*, and she ran to me and jumped in my arms. And the guy who was trying to get her just looks at me suspiciously and says "oh is that your dog" huh - dogs who just happen to be right outside my apartment always run to my arms as I call out random names?! I am certain that if he had managed to corner her, I never would have seen her again! I moved soon there after, and even though I spent almost $2,000 to install an extra door between my entranceway and the apartment so that there is no more slipping out, every time that I go out and get on the elevator, I HAVE TO OCDishly stick my head out of the elevator, look up and down the hallway and whistle to make sure that she did not magically follow me out through the double doors!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Tiny Poodles, I must admit if I see a loose dog I try to catch it but you have to trust your instincts and if you feel that guy was up to no good he probably was.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CT Girl said:


> Tiny Poodles, I must admit if I see a loose dog I try to catch it but you have to trust your instincts and if you feel that guy was up to no good he probably was.


But remember this was in the indoor hallway of an apartment building - logic would dictate that the dog came out of one of the apartments on that floor (unless the dog rode the elevator from another floor). 
I have come across loose dogs and cats several times in every building that I ever lived in and the first thing I do is call out as loudly as I can "whose dog/cat is this", and when nobody replied, I went from door to door ringing the bell until the owner answered - found the owner on the same floor that I found the animal every time. This guy was 5 feet from my door, soundlessly trying to catch her, and the look on his face, and the tone in his voice as he asked "oh, is that your dog" - it was like I was stealing something from him!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Even if I was mis-reading his tone and facial expression, why would somebody even ask "is that your dog" after you came out of a door 5 feet away screaming the dog's name, and the dog ran into your arms and was franticly kissing you the second that she saw you?!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

And trust me, knowing Teaka, she was not walking around the hallway exploring when he found her - she almost certainly had been sitting there staring our door waiting for me to open it - I could see even as she was dodging him that she was trying to stay as close to my door as possible, so it had to be pretty obvious to him where she belonged!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Very true, I would have called out too. My husband always says I am a Pollyanna because I always give the benefit of the doubt (too much sometimes).


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I am certain that if he had managed to corner her, I never would have seen her again! I moved soon there after, and even though I spent almost $2,000 to install an extra door between my entranceway and the apartment so that there is no more slipping out, every time that I go out and get on the elevator, I HAVE TO OCDishly stick my head out of the elevator, look up and down the hallway and whistle to make sure that she did not magically follow me out through the double doors!


Its funny how the mind works following traumatic events like that. I saw a tv show about OCD where this guy had somehow left the faucet running and flooded his kitchen, causing extensive damage to his house. After that, he was obsessed with checking that the faucet wasnt running. He would be in the middle of shopping at the mall and drive home to check the faucet. I found it fascinating, because once, my pet snake escaped from his cage, and it was very traumatic, I thought I'd never see him again. After that, I got a bit weird about checking/ double checking / triple checking the latches on his cage whenever I'd put him back after having him out.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Jacamar said:


> Its funny how the mind works following traumatic events like that. I saw a tv show about OCD where this guy had somehow left the faucet running and flooded his kitchen, causing extensive damage to his house. After that, he was obsessed with checking that the faucet wasnt running. He would be in the middle of shopping at the mall and drive home to check the faucet. I found it fascinating, because once, my pet snake escaped from his cage, and it was very traumatic, I thought I'd never see him again. After that, I got a bit weird about checking/ double checking / triple checking the latches on his cage whenever I'd put him back after having him out.


Thanks, I am glad to hear that I am not the only one! Though I have not gotten to where I was going and turned back, I'll admit there have been just a few times where I have gotten to the lobby, and gone right back upstairs to check - but only a few times lol! Perhaps we should call it a "normal" reactive behavior rather then OCD!


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Tiny, that dog was NOT allowed in my house! lol....she was kept on the front porch. My dogs and cats were in the house, behind a locked front door, behind 2 baby gates, behind a closed bedroom door.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> Tiny, that dog was NOT allowed in my house! lol....she was kept on the front porch. My dogs and cats were in the house, behind a locked front door, behind 2 baby gates, behind a closed bedroom door.


OK, now you feel more like the kindred spirit that I thought you were lol!


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Thanks, I am glad to hear that I am not the only one! Though I have not gotten to where I was going and turned back, I'll admit there have been just a few times where I have gotten to the lobby, and gone right back upstairs to check - but only a few times lol! Perhaps we should call it a "normal" reactive behavior rather then OCD!


Well if you really enjoy obsessing (lol), you can get a webcam and watch on your phone! op:


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Jacamar said:


> Well if you really enjoy obsessing (lol), you can get a webcam and watch on your phone! op:


Exactly how would you set that up? Do you have to leave your home computer on (maybe a bit paranoid of fire)?

Seriously - if you could tell me how it's done, and what to buy, I'll be all over that!!


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

There are different ways to do it with different advantages/disadvantages. Some dont require you to leave your PC on, the camera just talks to your network router. I dont want to hijack this thread so I'll send you a PM. Not tonight though, its time for bed.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Jacamar said:


> There are different ways to do it with different advantages/disadvantages. Some dont require you to leave your PC on, the camera just talks to your network router. I dont want to hijack this thread so I'll send you a PM. Not tonight though, its time for bed.


Thank you, I would really appreciate it, but no rush - I'm home with bronchitis and not going anywhere soon!


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## Ciscley (Jul 16, 2013)

Ooh, gorgeous poodle. I am so lame. I would totally subscribe to a webpage just showing poodles on web cams like that.


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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

I have webcams in the room where my poodles stay when we are gone. One has 2 way sound so I can listen in as well as talk. 


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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

I have ip cameras by axis that work with wireless Internet. Installed by security company. Love them!


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

Poodlemama99 said:


> I have ip cameras by axis that work with wireless Internet. Installed by security company. Love them!


Ah, I was going to ask if they were hard to set up, as IP cameras are notorious. But you had a company set them up. From what Ive read, that was a smart decision.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

PM me too!! Hehehehe this sounds so cool!!! Poodle camera 


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

It sounds like a topic of interest to several of us. Poodlemama, how about starting a new thread all about this? I'm curious too and know next to nothing about it. (if you have the time and inclination)


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Oh my, I just read all the posts on this topic and am so upset I feel ill. I am so sorry for all of you that have had your dog or yourself attacked. Frightening. 

It has brought up my own memories of being a guest at someone's home for dinner. Their adorable looking dog came up under the dinner table and put his head in my lap and looked at me so sweetly. I put my hand down to give him a pet and he had me crashed over in my chair on the floor in a flash, biting me. I did get PTSD from that. For almost a year a friend of mines half wolf dog would growl at me. We had always gotten along famously before, but I know he was picking up on my residual fear. I have always wondered if things like that show up in our aura's.

I am praying for your recovery. If that creepy woman ever shows up again I would get a restraining order after calling the police. The nerve. My best to all of you.


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