# ER visit for shot reaction



## Qarza (Feb 23, 2013)

Poor wee thing. I almost cried reading about Oreo. I hope he recovers quickly.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Please do some research to see if maybe Oreo wouldn't be better out without shots or with a modified (as in lower) number of shots. 

Poor baby, I hope recovery is fast and complete!


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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

My vet always gives the shots separately. It is a pain as it requires 2 trips in a month but she won't give more than one shot at a time to the little guys.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Scary what happened to poor little Oreo! It's great your vet will now administer the vaccines he needs separately. There's an interesting discussion about vaccines in Dr. Jean Dodd's blog. You may want to check it out.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...mbzheHInW_UBOgSZiul3sgQ&bvm=bv.42965579,d.dmQ


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## Liafast (Apr 9, 2011)

I think it is sad that we are told the benefits of the vaccines but we are not told the risks. Everything we do to ours pets from vaccines to desexing to medications has benefits AND risks but we are only told of benefits. Please do research and learn about both risks and benefits.....An informed decision is a good decision.


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## anagroom (Feb 26, 2013)

I don't remember which vaccine in the distemper mix causes the most reactions but your vet would know. They have many different distemper mixes you should try a different one next time. Do be aware that this can get worse with future shots. My bosses newfie had a reaction to a rabies shot and was paralyzed for a few months and this has caused tons of health problems. He also has reactions to many pain revilers and to anesthesia, This is rare but it does happen. It can be in the blood lines so If you have more trouble I would let your breeder know. Im sure it was a one time thing but its good to have all the info on what could happen.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I give my dogs the law required shot for rabies, but that is it. I don't use heart worm meds either. I know some will think I have lost my mind, BUT, I have never had a sickly dog and all my dogs live to be old. Maybe , I have just been lucky... and I haven't had a puppy in over 25 years. But I believe the less you do the better health your dog will have, and it seems to be working in my favor.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

It sounds like Oreo will be a good candidate for Jean Dodd's minimal vaccine protocol. I see that Chagall's mom provided you the link. I am following this protocol. My mini had his puppy series of vaccines, followed by boosters one year later. My vet wanted to revaccinate him a year after that, but I refused and requested blood titer tests, which showed he had adequate levels of antibodies in his blood. I don't plan to give him another vaccine (other than rabies every three years, which is not optional) unless titers show he needs it, and even then I'll think long and hard about it. 

I used to work at a vet many years ago, back when yearly shots were the norm. We vaccinated every single animal every single year, even pets that had severe vaccine reations like your Oreo did. With those pets, we "pretreated" them with diphenhydramine (Benadry) and then gave them all the shots, usually all at the same time. Some animals still had reactions even with the Benadryl. That's just how it was back then. I think back on that and find it crazy that we continued to do that to adult animals that probably had perfectly good immunity. 

Now we are realizing that vaccines are effective far longer than previously thought, perhaps for the lifetime of the animal. This makes sense since most of us don't receive the same vaccines we got in childhood over and over throughout our adult lives. 

A study with the rabies vaccine is underway (year five of a seven-year study) that hopes to prove rabies vaccines provide immunity for at least seven years: Duration of Immunity Study for Rabies Vaccine - Rabies Challenge Fund

Vaccines are a good thing. They protect against terrible diseases. But many people think too many vaccines are harmful. My parents' cat got yearly vaccines and when she was seven, she was given her FeLV/feline distemper combo vaccine and immediately went into an autoimmune crisis and was never able to recover. She died several weeks later. I firmly believe that the overvaccination caused it.


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## Oreo's Mommy (Dec 18, 2012)

Thank you all for your kind words and information. I truly appreciate it! Oreo seems much better this morning. He picked at his food and only ate about half the regular amount but is full of energy. His bowel movement was normal and no more vomiting. I am hopeful that the worst is over.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Poor little Oreo! How frightening for you! I did a lot of research before I did vax on Molly as I had remembered that the Lepto vaccine was not rec. for small dogs. I vac. Molly myself and only did DHPP. Of course she also had a rabies vac. as it is the law. I too want to do just the minimum.
I hope there will be no further bad reactions for little Oreo, he's just too cute to have to go thru such misery!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

The topic of vaccines always bears investigation and thought. It's been widely discussed here many times. I just wish it were more routinely discussed during veterinary visits! 

A search in the "Health" section of the forum will yield a lot of info. Such as this interesting thread.
http://www.poodleforum.com/29-poodle-health/15985-2011-aaha-vaccine-guidelines.html#post197219

I want to mention that I've had occasion to call Dr. Jean Dodd's lab and found them to be _immensely_ helpful and responsive. In case anyone ever wishes to do so, here's the contact info.

W. Jean Dodds, DVM
HEMOPET
938 Stanford Street
Santa Monica, CA 90403

310/828-4804
Fax: 310/ 453-5240

e-mail: hemopet at hotmail com
(remove spaces, use @ symbol and .com)


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## Oreo's Mommy (Dec 18, 2012)

He just woke up from a long nap and is still eating only about half as much as he usually does. He is drinking regularly and is playful. I am still stressing a bit though.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Oreo's Mommy said:


> He just woke up from a long nap and is still eating only about half as much as he usually does. He is drinking regularly and is playful. I am still stressing a bit though.


It's okay, it's understandable you'd be a little flooded with worry. Not our intention to magnify your fears; everything is probably just fine and will continue to be. The Benadryl may be making him thirsty and drowsy/subdued and maybe not so hungry. Your job now is just to be watchful and "Zen" so he doesn't pick up on your worry and feed into it. I am sorry for your distress! This is the downside of poodle parenthood, but there are _so, so_ many wonderful and easy and delightful things about it. And all that lies ahead for you and little Oreo. Try to relax, all will be well.:nod:


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## lindasdoggrooming (Nov 12, 2012)

Read Dr Dodds blog. Vets continue to over vaccinate. We do not give our children shots every year. It is a money issue for them. Read as much as you can. Oreo depends on you to be informed.


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## Oreo's Mommy (Dec 18, 2012)

Oreo had a good rest of the day but peed in the house four times. Back to training tomorrow.


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## Oreo's Mommy (Dec 18, 2012)

Oreo is back to puppy normal today!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Oreo's Mommy said:


> Oreo is back to puppy normal today!


*Yay!* Then you can be too. You do realize this means doing some laundry and cooking, right? Glad things are well!!


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## crestiespoo (Dec 19, 2012)

I'm really happy Oreo is back to normal!! Portia had a similar reaction with she got hr third shots (AND rabies during the same appointment)... not sure which one was the culprit or if it was just too much at once but she started throwing up within a few hours (and I mean violent spasmic vomiting, not the usual)... Lasted about 24 hours but then slowly she got better. My vet at the time (I've since switched) said to keep an eye on her and monitor but gave me no advice and didn't ask to see her... :/ Now have a new vet...


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I am very lucky with my vet. I asked that Swizzle gets only one shot at a time. I get charged an office visit for the first one and subsequent visits I only get charged for the shot. I have her administer a benedryl shot before any vaccine. I discuss and debate each shot he gets and my vet knowing my concern has sugested titters. Knowing that Oreo had a reaction in the future be verymindful of the risk/benefit of each shot given. This is something we must all do as responsible dog owners. I feel very lucky that my Aussie did not have a reaction as Iuse to just get whatever the vet suggested. I am so glad to hear Oreo is feeling better.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

I urge everyone to think about, and perhaps revisit their thinking, on vaccines. Even if they get "push-back" from their vet. Having lost a beloved 8 yo bitch to immune-mediated hemolytic anemia years back, which I am FIRMLY convinced was due to over-vaccination, as two forward thinking vets concurred, I am on a bit of a crusade to get this info out. :ridinghorse: 
Vaccination Schedule Recommendations For Dogs


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

One more thing...anyone wrestling with how to handle vaccine discussions with their vet may find some guidance here.

Questions to Ask | Truth4Pets

You have the right to refuse vaccination, in part or in full, if you do not believe it is in the best interest of your animal (although with rabies there may be legal complications unless your vet will apply for a medical exemption). You may also request to be more fully informed before proceeding and can ask to see the vaccine “package insert.” *It’s not easy to reject or modify your veterinarian’s recommendations, but your animal’s well-being is your responsibility, both morally and financially.* An activist against over-vaccinating children suggests that *refusing is easier if you just say: “Not today, thank you very much.”* Some people also like to take with them a copy of an article or study from an expert. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I initially followed the "Not today..." advice to short circuit an unpleasant discussion with my vet. We have since reached a point of consensus and I do titers.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I continue to hear more and more side effects and reactions from immunizations as you experienced. I hear many stories from dog owner friends, and more people are adapting to the new Jean Dodd (or similar) protocols for immunization. Glad your baby will be fine.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I do titers, too.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Apollo had his first shots just before we brought him home. When I took him in to our vet less then two weeks from then they gave him more shots. Partially my fault as I didn't speak up. We cleaned up poop puddles for nearly 2 weeks after that. Not sure if was the shots, move, food change or all of the above. 

I held off for that third set of shots until now. He goes in a few days after he turns 16 weeks old. They were going to give his rabies then too and I said no. Now I am wondering if I should have requested that the core shots he is getting be done separately...


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

spindledreams said:


> Apollo had his first shots just before we brought him home. When I took him in to our vet less then two weeks from then they gave him more shots. Partially my fault as I didn't speak up. We cleaned up poop puddles for nearly 2 weeks after that. Not sure if was the shots, move, food change or all of the above.
> 
> I held off for that third set of shots until now. He goes in a few days after he turns 16 weeks old. They were going to give his rabies then too and I said no. Now I am wondering if I should have requested that the core shots he is getting be done separately...


The distemper and parvo vaccines are likely a combo (one shot), but I agree about separating the rabies from the distemper/parvo. I did that and my vet was like "You don't need to do that, you will have to come in again, it's perfectly safe, etc.," and I just stood my ground and said I prefer to separate them and it's can’t hurt and I don't mind paying another tech visit fee to do so. They did not charge me for that, although I would have paid if that was the only way. I spaced the rabies about three weeks after the last distemper/parvo. This also allowed me to delay the first rabies vaccine, which my breeder said I should try to get the vet to wait until my puppy was 5 or 6 months old (it's typically given at 16 weeks old). 

When my poodle had his one-year boosters I separated those by several weeks as well. When it was time to revaccinate and I elected for titers my vet had NEVER done those before and it was quite a discussion we had, but in the end he respected my choice, he did the titers and he was surprised when the results came back and were easy to interpret (he was worried about a borderline gray area) and indicated my dog's immunity was adequate. Quite honestly, I feel like my vet learned something that day and I appreciate that he allowed me to move forward with my preferences and in the end agreed that I was right and he did not need any more vaccines at that time.


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## Apres Argent (Aug 9, 2010)

*Please report adverse reaction to FDA!*

Most of these reactions go unreported which is very unfortunate because then we really do not know these vaccines or products are causing an issue. Please report the adverse reaction to the FDA and also as a consumer demand that your vet also report to both vaccine manufacture and the FDA.


Veterinary Adverse Event Voluntary Reporting


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

My vet clinic has a number of vets I trust but the one that we saw the first time with Apollo is on my list of folks to not see again... This appointment is with the poodle lover so I know the boy will get lots of hugs and lovings and we will get some honest opinions about when for rabies, etc. 

Actually one of the vets at this clinic introduced us to titers. We had a Shar Pei with FSF an inherited auto immune type illness and they had us preform titers before they would vaccinate him for anything. Their opinion was the fewer stresses to his system had the better. During his nearly 16 year of life we got to know and trust many of the vets in the clinic. Wry grin can't say the same for the new vet who we saw last time...


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