# Poodle Conformation Examples



## chinchillafuzzy

I am very interested in learning more about correct poodle conformation (for all varieties since they all have the same breed standard) and it helps me to see real pictures of regular poodles, with or without the show hair!

The Poodle Club of America has an illustrated breed standard that does a wonderful job of showing correct conformation, and faults.

https://www.poodleclubofamerica.org/education-resources/education-materials/illustrated-standard

If anyone wants to participate, and you know your dog has a great example of a certain part (i.e. a fantastic head, or tail set) take a picture showing it off and share it with us! Likewise, if you have a question about a certain part, or if you feel it is a poor example according to the standard, you could also share that with us a picture and we could give feed back, or be able to see an example of something less than ideal.

I hope everyone will participate, to make this fun! I will have to post some photos within the next couple of days.


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## Skylar

Fascinating topic. My Babykins was a puppy held back for conformation - I got her as an adult from the professional dog handler because they realized she was probably going to go over the height limit for a minipoodle. Besides her height not meeting the standard, I'm not sure what her other faults or strengths were/are.

I did find this website interesting when I was looking up some terminology... Standard Poodle Structure Explained


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## Vita

These two links are worth the clicks. The first gives detailed illustrations and detailed explanations with a test for you to judge, the second has photos or correct and incorrect features. 

Poodle Confirmation Detailed Illustrations

AKC Poodle Conformation Photos


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## Mfmst

Skylar, that’s a great link. I like the breeder’s admission that no poodle is perfect and the caution to stick with the breed standard rather than what is winning at the moment or we could end up with a poodle version of the GSD.


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## Skylar

Mfmst said:


> Skylar, that’s a great link. I like the breeder’s admission that no poodle is perfect and the caution to stick with the breed standard rather than what is winning at the moment or we could end up with a poodle version of the GSD.


I agree - I'm not sure but I bet she felt the need to write that after that dog won.


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## chinchillafuzzy

Thank you all so much! I read through all of the links (I think a couple of them I had seen before!) but I learned a few new things this time around!!


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## Johanna

Skylar, that Bijou site is a real jewel (pun intended!). I like the "you be the judge" section, although those are some pretty extreme examples.

Last spring at our poodle specialty show I was really please when the judge withheld ribbons on a couple of very poor specimens. The exhibitors of those two dogs were treated kindly - it was explained that they were lovely pets but not appropriate for showing.

I have been a poodle judge and have had to withhold ribbons - it's hard. I also had a reputation for measuring. Once you ever measure, the word gets around quickly and oversize minis and toys are not shown to you - at least not ones who are very oversize! My feeling about that is that breeders of toys and minis have work incredibly hard to breed to the standard, so their efforts should be encouraged and rewarded.

In case you are wondering why I no longer judge, I married someone who really hates conformation (and is a sore loser when it comes to our dogs!). I have stayed out of the conformation ring as a judge and exhibitor for the past 20+ years, but when I bought Zoe from Betty Brown, I agreed to show her in conformation even though I plan to do agility and obedience with her.


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## glorybeecosta

Quite interesting and informative. Boy do I have a combination,Sage with a beautiful body, long legs, almond eyes, beautiful muzzle, thin ear hair, thick, but not kinkey hair. Bella sweetest, wider muzzle, round eyes, great personality, thick sirey curly hair, (you could style it any way, beautiful full ears, then we have Cayenne, between round and oval eyes, slim muzzle, hair thick curly on the body, not as curly on the legs, little spitfire. They all are perfect to me but totally different


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## spindledreams

This is what a head looks like without enough stop. Notice how it also affects her expression. Her eyes are actually properly shaped and color but they are set too far forward partially due to the lack of stop. This gives her a startled expression.


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## chinchillafuzzy

Wow that is fascinating Spindledreams!! The head looks more sighthound than poodle! It almost looks as though she has had some of the hair above her eyes taken shorter, I wonder if that makes the expression look even more startled than it would with longer hair above the eyes? Thank you so much for sharing, as I had never seen a picture of a poodle without a decent stop!


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## zooeysmom

Here is one of the only sort of stacked pictures I have of Maizie from a while ago, plus one that shows how pretty her head is. My critiques are that she has a slightly roached back and low tail set. She has a great front and rear and is an excellent mover. What do you think?


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## chinchillafuzzy

Wow ZM!! I haven't ever seen a pic of Maizie in hair, what a beautiful coat! And that is such a great stacked picture too, she looks gorgeous to me. The one and only thing that looks a tiny bit off to me in that picture (and admittedly, I don't have the greatest eye, which is why I started this thread!) is her front assembly looks a little far forward. This could also be just this picture, and also could be an illusion based on her haircut. But wow she is just gorgeous and I also love the picture showing off her beautiful head!


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## zooeysmom

Thank you for your input, cfuzzy


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## Dechi

I don’t have good pictures to show Beckie, but she definitely has poor conformation. And I knew this perfectly well when I went to see her but I just can’t help myself when I see a nice dog...

So she has round eyes, east and west feet, her back is too long, her muzzle is too large and her paws, too big. Her rear end isn’t great either. She does have a very nice gait though, as strange as it sounds. She has a very light footstep and it’s like she’s walking on clouds. But her heart and soul are perfect and she is the best girl in the world... Her temperament is also perfect.

Merlin has good conformation, he would have probably had his canadian championship with the right handler to show him off despite his poor temperament. But Merlin is a severely anxious fear biter with also severe separation anxiety. He loves me dearly and I do love him too.

So between these two, I can say I have the perfect dog, lol !


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## Johanna

Mazie is nice and square. Her tail set looks very good, as does the angulation of her hindquarter. It's really hard to tell about her front because she is leaning back a bit. You said you did not like her topline - does it level out when she is moving? Many dogs tend to arch their backs when posed.


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## Charmed

Sailor has a roman nose. It was not so noticeable when he was young, but the older he gets, the more obvious it is. Sometimes it is not quite as apparent, like in the picture with Wilson.


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## Charmed

Here's a good example of trotting vs. pacing. Wilson, the parti is trotting; Nike the silver is pacing. All I can figure out is that Nike is longer backed that Wilson. I am not good at figuring out angulation.Pacing is undesirable.


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## zooeysmom

Johanna said:


> Mazie is nice and square. Her tail set looks very good, as does the angulation of her hindquarter. It's really hard to tell about her front because she is leaning back a bit. You said you did not like her topline - does it level out when she is moving? Many dogs tend to arch their backs when posed.


Thank you, Johanna. Yes, her topline flattens out when she's moving, and it has dropped since that photo was taken a year ago (her tail set is also lower than it appears in the picture).


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## zooeysmom

Charmed said:


> Here's a good example of trotting vs. pacing. Wilson, the parti is trotting; Nike the silver is pacing. All I can figure out is that Nike is longer backed that Wilson. I am not good at figuring out angulation.Pacing is undesirable.


Frosty is a pacer too. In fact, it is rare to see him trot. But when he does, he has quite a step! 

Now, I just mentioned that Maizie's back flattens when she moves, but of course it isn't in this picture. Her movement is effortless, with no knee action, like a good hunter under saddle horse. 

Movement critiques welcome


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## Mfmst

How cool is it that we have Johanna, a former poodle conformation judge to comment and assess?


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## chinchillafuzzy

Mfmst said:


> How cool is it that we have Johanna, a former poodle conformation judge to comment and assess?


I agree 100%! I feel like we are so lucky to have the amazing and experienced show people here on PF that we do. For those of you who have read the Melanie Travis mysteries it is like we have several of our own Aunt Pegs right here!


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## Johanna

I absolutely LOVE Berenson's books. One of the instructors for Zoe's puppy class introduced me to them. My very favorite is Best In Show because it is set at PCA and brings back memories of trips to PCA.

I wrote to Ms. Berenson (via email) to tell her how much I was enjoying her books. I told her that I could see Annie Clark in Aunt Peg and Wendell Sammet/Dee Shepherd in Crawford and Terry. She answered me right away. She said that quite a few people saw those well-known poodle people in her characters, but that her characters are a reflection of a number of folks.


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## Johanna

chinchillafuzzy - I'm only 5'2" - so could never be Aunt Peg!


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## Mfmst

I cast Cherie of Arreau as Aunt Peg


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## chinchillafuzzy

Johanna I also contacted Laurien Berenson (via fb) to tell her how much I loved her books and she was extremely sweet and responsive. I actually just finished the last book in the series and now feel very lost. Her next one comes out next June. I also LOVED the one about PCA. I haven't been but wow, it made me feel like I had. I also love the earlier books where Melanie is learning to show Faith and Eve because I will be in that position in the near future. The way she describes how points are earned and how the whole show system works is the only way that I finally got all of that stuff sorted out in my brain. In my mind, her books are an amazing asset to the show community.


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## chinchillafuzzy

I will finally post a couple of Luna pictures. She just got a bath today for the first time since Halloween! I had been holding out because I was considering taking her up to a UKC show tomorrow and wanted to have her bath as close to the show as possible. It looks like we won't be going anymore but she still got a bath and I attempted a little bit of a haircut on her (did not finish, did not want her to be too tired after being on the table for so long!) At the moment she unintentionally looks like she is in a scandi haha.

Luna is still a growing puppy - she is 4.5 months old. Some of her biggest strengths right now (in my opinion) are her feet, face, movement, and square shape. Her eye shape and set, ear set, and coat are also good. I don't have a good picture of her movement to post but I will post pics of her other good qualities.

As for faults of course she has some, but I hope she grows out of some of them. She has less than ideal pigment, which is something that probably won't improve. Her tailset is a little low and slightly gay. Her top line is a little roachy at the moment but not while she moves. She doesn't have the longest neck right now, but I think (hope) it will grow as she does. Here are a few pics from today and the last week or two.


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## spindledreams

yes longer hair helps hide her expression in fact when showing I sorta push the topknot forward when the judge comes towards us... 

In that photo her cords had been chewed off by my boys when she was in heat leading to a total shave down with a short blade so thing would grow back even as her topknot was not the only place to suffer. 

Here are a couple more photos of her head only and you can see the topknot does help hide that lack of stop. And a full body shot so you can see why I still love her. This shot was taken 6 or 8 months after her full shave down with a 7 blade.


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## chinchillafuzzy

Sorry guys, finally getting a chance to respond!

Charmed, thanks for that picture of Roman Nose! I had heard the term and googled it, but your pictures are very clear. So for Sailor it was something that developed over time? That is so interesting. I also adore the picture of Nike and Wilson pacing and trotting in the same shot. What a great educational photo! Thank you for sharing!!

Zooeysmom, love your movement picture also! (How do you guys get such great movement pics lol - I can't even...!) As far as critiquing their movement, from that photo, which is a still shot, here is what I see. Frosty is really opened up! He is overstepping a tiny bit (the front and back feet under him are overlapping slightly) but other than that it looks beautiful to me! Notice how his front and back toes are pointed ahead/behind? That is desirable! Maizie in the photo does not look like she is opening up as wide as Frosty (it could be the timing of the photo, maybe she just isn't in her stride). Overall a very nice picture!! One thing that you can't tell from photos is if they are doing the little poodle bounce with each step. But I love looking at still shots of movement as they are so interesting to me!

Spindledreams, you are so brave for doing cords on your girl! I could never do that, but I love seeing them on others! Thank you so much for sharing your pics with us!


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## Johanna

chinchillafuzzy said:


> The way she describes how points are earned and how the whole show system works is the only way that I finally got all of that stuff sorted out in my brain. In my mind, her books are an amazing asset to the show community.


Although I skip over that part in each book, I am really glad she always explains it so well. It IS very confusing. I'll add one more item about points that she does not include because it's not a common occurrence - if you win the Non-Sporting group or Best In Show the dog gets the highest number of points available in any breed. I hit that jackpot once with a whippet - she won the Hound Group at a small show, but there was a major in one of the hound breeds, so she got that major even though there was only one point in whippets. I floated home that day!


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## snow0160

I have a question about the hock. Multiple people pointed out to me that the hock should be a straight line down. All of these people hate doodles and complain about their poor structure. Regardless of whether they were doodle lovers or haters, this worried me a lot because people told me it meant possible hip problems in the future. I xrayed Lucky like four separate times lol elbow, legs, hips in multiple angles and it seems like he has excellent hips according to the vet. Is there a correlation?


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## chinchillafuzzy

Snow, do you have a picture showing what you mean about Lucky's hock? If it is slanted down when you face him from the side it is likely sickle hock. If it is bowed in or out when you look at him from behind it is probably cow hock or bow legged. I am not sure the long term effects that these may have on the hips - they probably aren't the best for the hips but I also don't think that having them automatically means the hips will be bad eventually. These problems happen in poodles too, so I don't really think it is a "doodle" thing. No one should have been giving you grief about it. I am interested in learning more about hocks, if anyone has a picture of their dogs hocks, please post it!


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## zooeysmom

chinchillafuzzy said:


> Zooeysmom, love your movement picture also! (How do you guys get such great movement pics lol - I can't even...!) As far as critiquing their movement, from that photo, which is a still shot, here is what I see. Frosty is really opened up! He is overstepping a tiny bit (the front and back feet under him are overlapping slightly) but other than that it looks beautiful to me! Notice how his front and back toes are pointed ahead/behind? That is desirable! Maizie in the photo does not look like she is opening up as wide as Frosty (it could be the timing of the photo, maybe she just isn't in her stride). Overall a very nice picture!! One thing that you can't tell from photos is if they are doing the little poodle bounce with each step. But I love looking at still shots of movement as they are so interesting to me!


I agree with your assessment based on the photo, cfuzzy! Frosty is overreaching a bit, and Maizie's stride looks short. Here is a video of Maizie trotting today. If she were a horse, she would "win the hack."


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## snow0160

chinchillafuzzy said:


> Snow, do you have a picture showing what you mean about Lucky's hock? If it is slanted down when you face him from the side it is likely sickle hock. If it is bowed in or out when you look at him from behind it is probably cow hock or bow legged. I am not sure the long term effects that these may have on the hips - they probably aren't the best for the hips but I also don't think that having them automatically means the hips will be bad eventually. These problems happen in poodles too, so I don't really think it is a "doodle" thing. No one should have been giving you grief about it. I am interested in learning more about hocks, if anyone has a picture of their dogs hocks, please post it!




I’m at a doctors office and took this photo








Notice how it should be straight.








To be honest I only care about conformation in terms of hip health. I am not obsessed with him looking like breed standard since he isn’t purebred.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## chinchillafuzzy

Snow, to me that does look like sickle hock but honestly not as bad as I was expecting to see. Hopefully someone who knows more about hocks can give input but I don't even think that is really something to worry about for Lucky.


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## snow0160

Thank you so much Chinchillafuzzy! I was so worried about it before and it had always lingered in the back of my mind. Now I feel good about this moving forward. He has no problems with his gait and is plenty active. Our agility instructor is in love with him. Lucky is extremely fast and obedient.


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## Sis

Maizie has a beautiful head and face! Overall, she looks fantastic to me.


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## Johanna

Snow, it looks to me like he simply has his back legs under him a bit. To check for sickle hocks, be sure the front of the toes is lined up with the pin bone (his "sit-upon" point on his rear). Look at the diagram - see how the back legs are extended out a bit so the fronts of the toes are directly beneath the rear?


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## zooeysmom

Up for conformation critique is this stud muffin. I think he is just gorgeous, with his major fault being his roached back. Please note his shaved underside for his surgery creates an illusion (his chest is the same color as the ground!).


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## Dechi

I think Frosty looks just perfect ! And I love his dirty, barenaked stomach, lol !


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## zooeysmom

Thanks, Dechi


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## chinchillafuzzy

Lol ZM holy cow his chest does blend right in with the dirt!! Is that his skin pigment or did he get some mud on his chest? I am thinking it is his pigment and if so, wow! Was it pink when it was first shaved and then darkened up in the sun or was it that color when shaved? I am a sucker for dark pigment on a white poodle.

Other than that, it is extremely hard for me to give much of an eval with that illusion from his clip haha! He looks to be pretty square, and to me his shoulder layback looks good even though his front (could just be the picture) looks a little straight. He is definitely a cutie and a very handsome dog!!  Thanks for sharing his picture with us!


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## zooeysmom

chinchillafuzzy said:


> Lol ZM holy cow his chest does blend right in with the dirt!! Is that his skin pigment or did he get some mud on his chest? I am thinking it is his pigment and if so, wow! Was it pink when it was first shaved and then darkened up in the sun or was it that color when shaved? I am a sucker for dark pigment on a white poodle.
> 
> Other than that, it is extremely hard for me to give much of an eval with that illusion from his clip haha! He looks to be pretty square, and to me his shoulder layback looks good even though his front (could just be the picture) looks a little straight. He is definitely a cutie and a very handsome dog!!  Thanks for sharing his picture with us!


Yes, cfuzzy, it is his pigment, and yep, it was pink just a week ago when he was shaved  

Thank you for the eval! His front looks a bit straight to me as well.


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