# Not eating, lethargic, vomiting



## lunamarz_31

You are doing the right thing by taking her to the vet first thing in the morning. 
The symptoms sound alarming. She could be in pain thus so lethargic, and it can be so many things that you'll never know unless she gets checked out by the vet. Ask for a full blood panel and urinalysis, that way she can get assessed on many different areas.
Her drinking is a good sign, I would be concerned with dehydration. 

I would say keep a very close eye on her, if things take a turn for the worse, call the ER immediately. I am always a nervous wreck when my poodle is sick, she is my baby after all and probably won't be able to sleep. Keep her close to you tonight so if there are any sudden changes, you can notice right away.

Hoping for the best to you both, please let us know how she's doing afterwards.


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## Ladyscarletthawk

thank you luna

Will do! I normally dont let the girls sleep in our bed but will make an exception. I am very worried, and will feel better when I call the vet in 6hrs. Well better get the lil sleep I will so I can drive there in one piece lol. Thanks for responding.


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## fjm

It does sound very worrying, although I agree that it is an excellent thing that she is drinking. I would keep her close, keep her warm, and hope for good news from the vet. Let us know how it goes, sending hugs for you and healing thoughts for little Eve.


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## Ladyscarletthawk

Thanks FJM 
The vet will be open in 9 mins, im trying not to rush down there like a crazy person. She is doing the same this morning and I hope her vet will see her right away.. She is very nice, and been a good honest doc to my dogs.. fingers crossed. At least she still walks, pottys, and cleans herself on her own. Ugg I feel sick to my stomach!


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## Ms Stella

Will be waiting anxiously with you! Let us know asap. Sending support and hopes for an easy fix to all of this.


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## Ladyscarletthawk

Thank you Ms Stella! got an appt in 45 min will let you all know how it goes.. poor thing is unsteady on her feet.. like a 15yr old dog.. but did drink . Will be leaving shortly!


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## RileysMommy

I hope it's nothing too serious. I will be praying for you both.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

Best of luck! Please do keep us posted.


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## Rowan

I agree her behaviour is cause for concern, especially since she's only eight yoa. You mentioned she's guzzling water and has lost a lot of weight. Those are both symptoms of diabetes although most diabetics have voracious appetites. (I adopted a senior MPOO with diabetes.) Your vet will probably take some blood and urine for analysis and hopefully you'll get some answers today.

We've got our fingers and paws crossed that it's nothing serious.


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## Chagall's mom

Just saw this thread and my heart joins the others hoping your vet has encouraging news to offer. I am so sorry to hear you're having such a scary and worrying time. I hope your little toy girl feels like herself before long. Fingers crossed! No creature as sweet as her should have a moment's discomfort!


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## Ladyscarletthawk

Thanks everyone :adore:! Well we just got back from the vet and they couldnt find anything wrong with her.. figures I have the only dog in the world that will not read their medical books lol. She is the one that has allergies and altho the severity is there in numbers it is not in symptoms. Also she has luxating patellas and is not slowed by them. Or the fact she had liver issues to the point she was having cluster seizures and had to be on low protein and meds for over a year till I got her to the U of Ten where some of if not the best liver disease doctors in the states... Only to have perfect bloodwork, Bile Acids, as well as all the other tests they ran. To this day she is liver dysfunction free without low protein or meds...

Well the doctor and I decided to give her sub q fluids and anti nausea meds and see if it helped. By the time I grabbed my stuff and walked to the counter to pay the lil heifer was already feeling better. I put her on the counter and all she wanted to do was get back in my arms, which before she could care less. I will be feeding her later this afternoon, to see if she will keep it down and to see if she improves. Thank you all for your loving support it really helped us :angel2:. Hopefully she will be feeling better soon.


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## liljaker

Hope all goes well for your little one. Sounds like the trip to vet yielded some improvement, so keep us apprised and let's hope it continues.


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## Ladyscarletthawk

Rowan said:


> I agree her behaviour is cause for concern, especially since she's only eight yoa. You mentioned she's guzzling water and has lost a lot of weight. Those are both symptoms of diabetes although most diabetics have voracious appetites. (I adopted a senior MPOO with diabetes.) Your vet will probably take some blood and urine for analysis and hopefully you'll get some answers today.
> 
> We've got our fingers and paws crossed that it's nothing serious.


Funny thing is she has symmetrical hairloss on her hocks.. hairloss on her knuckles and bridge of nose.. Drinks a lot of water, and pees a lot altho rarely has accidents and... After being tested for thyroid three times and addisons.. she is healthy.. oh and has a small bladder, heart murmur but is very healthy lol. Arrg! Makes finding symptoms a teeter toter affect well she has these symptoms, but she always has and is still is healthy lol.


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## Rowan

That's great news. :cheers2:

Sounds like someone just wanted a bit of extra attention.  I think our poodles, much like us, just have bad days or feel off. I only wish they could communicate this to us so we didn't worry ourselves sick!


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## Rowan

Ladyscarletthawk said:


> Funny thing is she has symmetrical hairloss on her hocks.. hairloss on her knuckles and bridge of nose.. Drinks a lot of water, and pees a lot altho rarely has accidents and... After being tested for thyroid three times and addisons.. she is healthy.. oh and has a small bladder, heart murmur but is very healthy lol. Arrg! Makes finding symptoms a teeter toter affect well she has these symptoms, but she always has and is still is healthy lol.


Does she have food or seasonal allergies? She sounds like me except I don't experience symmetrical hair loss (thank goodness), but a symmetrical rash if I ingest gluten. (I have Celiacs.) 

Your poor baby has a lot of health issues but the upside is that she's healthy!


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## Ladyscarletthawk

Rowan said:


> Does she have food or seasonal allergies? She sounds like me except I don't experience symmetrical hair loss (thank goodness), but a symmetrical rash if I ingest gluten. (I have Celiacs.)
> 
> Your poor baby has a lot of health issues but the upside is that she's healthy!


She has both.. have to watch what she eats and is on hypo shots . You poor thing, that really sucks!


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## petitpie

I'm also glad to hear Eve is better, that she is still healthy, and nothing serious was found. Please keep us up to date on her progress. :act-up:


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## Ladyscarletthawk

Thanks! She isnt out of the woods yet, have to get her to eat and keep it down


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## lunamarz_31

Ladyscarletthawk,
I am so glad to hear Eve is feeling better...I thought of her last night! Nothing like being worried of your baby having a serious illness, I have been there several times myself!

Eve sounds similar to my Muffin. She is 10 y.o (senior), and she has luxating patella herself although it never hinders her activities or daily functions. I am lucky she doesn't need surgery. She is on glucosamine supplement as a preventative measure.
A couple years ago Muffin also had a skyrocketing liver enzyme (partly as a result of eating food that was "poisoning" her - long story...). I try to implement a natural method as opposed to loading her with medications, and I then put her on milk thistle supplement. Her liver enzyme has gone down considerable since then. I bought milk thistle at the "human" supplement store, and it's relatively inexpensive. And since it's a natural supplement, there are no side effects from it.

Overall, I agree that poodles want to be pampered and given the best treatment


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## fjm

I'm so glad the vet found nothing serious. I hope she continues to improve, and that your blood pressure comes down quickly (and that you are able to sleep properly tonight!).


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## Ms Stella

Sounds good so far...hope she continues to improve over night..thanks for the update!


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## Lilah+Jasper

lunamarz_31 said:


> A couple years ago Muffin also had a skyrocketing liver enzyme (partly as a result of eating food that was "poisoning" her - long story...). I try to implement a natural method as opposed to loading her with medications, and I then put her on milk thistle supplement. Her liver enzyme has gone down considerable since then. I bought milk thistle at the "human" supplement store, and it's relatively inexpensive. And since it's a natural supplement, there are no side effects from it.


I'd love to read Muffin's story. My Jasper has high kidney and liver numbers. How did you treat this with nutrition?


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## Rowan

lunamarz_31 said:


> ...
> A couple years ago Muffin also had a skyrocketing liver enzyme (partly as a result of eating food that was "poisoning" her - long story...). I try to implement a natural method as opposed to loading her with medications, and I then put her on milk thistle supplement. Her liver enzyme has gone down considerable since then. I bought milk thistle at the "human" supplement store, and it's relatively inexpensive. And since it's a natural supplement, there are no side effects from it...


My M/D's dog is also on Milk Thistle. He nearly died when he was barely a year old. His gall bladder stopped working and he suffered extensive liver damage. His liver enzymes went from normal to off the charts in a matter of weeks. 

He had the GB removed by an internist/surgeon and a holistic vet put him on Milk Thistle and also a Chinese Herbal concoction (I actually have it and will look it up later). He'll be on other meds his entire life but the MT and the chinese herbs did seem to help. 

*Like Lilah+Jasper:* I'd be interested in hearing more of Muffin's story.


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## lunamarz_31

*Rowan and Lilah+Jasper,*

as far as Muffin, my journey with natural meds started in 2009. I had put her on Nutro for abt 2 yrs. During those couple of years, she suffered severe vomiting (bile) it was heart breaking to see her in pain. We went in and out of the vets' office, but they couldn't find anything wrong with her. Everything else seemed fine, except her liver enzyme was elevated. I stumbled upon a forum similar to this, and read of other pet owners with similar experience. Turned out Nutro is the culprit! Try googling "Nutro dog vomiting" and you'll find horrifying stories. What do you know, the vomiting stopped when she stopped eating Nutro. There must be something in it that is just so toxic for her. (I'm not trying to bash this brand, but just sharing my own experience.)
Around the same time, she also had a really bad reaction to vaccination, bad enough to warrant a visit to animal ER. I realized if this kept going, I could lose her in a short period of time.

So I started reading and researching like crazy, and decided to follow a natural path to pet care. Try to minimize chemicals and medications going into her body. Liver is the organ that is used to neutralize toxins, so the more chemicals she ingests, the more taxing it is to the liver. 

I changed her food and treats (no more Nutro for sure!) to organic kibble, home cooked food and some raw. I stopped vaccinating her since the last incident, and I refuse to give her any more for the rest of her life (a valuable info the ER vet told me, if your pet has had a reaction once, the next time it happens it can be fatal). Also considering that Muffin is now 10 y.o., the chance of her surviving such catastrophe is going to be slim. 
I went against my vet's advice for dental cleaning where she is going to be put under (again, anesthesia means more toxin going into the body). I opted to use Petzlife (dental gel made of natural ingredients that I apply on her teeth every night), and along with regular brushing, whaddaya know, her teeth are pearly white now. 
I also stopped using Frontline or Advantage flea medication (harsh pesticides). I hardly used anything last year, I was lucky I had no flea problem. When I need to use it, I use Sentry Natural Defense (all natural oils). 
As far as milk thistle, I give 75-100 mg of 80% milk thistle each day. I read that you only give it for several weeks at a time, then give several weeks of break before continuing. Using it continuously can suppress liver function. I don't know if there is scientific research behind it, but I'd rather play it safe.

Surprisingly, she has not been sick since I put her on the natural pet care. She is 10, and I have to accept the fact that sooner or later her health is going to decline. But I will try to keep her healthy as long as it is possible. 

Rowan,
do you have the recipe for the Chinese herbal mixture? I would love to know if you won't mind sharing.

Lilah+Jasper,
sorry to hear you have to deal with high kidney numbers. No matter what you have to face, I'd rather opt for holistic method. There is a site for a listing of holistic vets throughout the country, some will consult long distance as well. Wish you the best!
AHVMA Home Page


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## Lilah+Jasper

*@ lunamarz *- thanks a million for sharing Muffin's story. What good news that she is thriving even at age 10! I am attending a holistic nutrition seminar next week that will address supplements, raw feeding and holistic kibble. I have made a note to ask about milk thistle - this sounds so promising. I too have stopped all of Jasper's exposure to chemicals. Luckily, their doggie daycare will accept titers to continue enrollment.

Unfortunately, I have been down this road before with my 5 year old black Standard Sasha, but she passed within a week of her showing symptoms. Time was not on my side then - I am thankful that with Jasper the vets are still hopeful and we have an opportunity to pursue alternative treatments.

*@ Rowan* - thanks a bunch for sharing your experience with MT and herbal supplements. I am hopeful that a treatment like this will help Jasper as well.

:adore: Poodle people are the best! :adore:


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## Rowan

lunamarz_31 said:


> *Rowan,
> do you have the recipe for the Chinese herbal mixture? I would love to know if you won't mind sharing.
> *


*
Thank you, Muffin!

The mixture is called "Women's Precious." I'm still looking for the bottle (hope I didn't pitch it) but here's some info: Women’s Precious | Holistic Chinese Herbs*


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## stealthq

Re: liver damage. 

Milk thistle is great - my cat was prescribed this when he went into liver failure. He was also prescribed SAM-e (S-adenosyl methionine). The two in combination plus force feeding for several weeks saved his life and his liver eventually repaired itself. Both are well-known ways of treating and supporting the liver in humans, cats, and dogs. Google should get you all the info you need.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

How is the wee girl doing now?? Hoping all is well.


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## Ladywolfe

So relieved for you. Please keep an eye out for any patterns with this and alert your vet if you should see that;as there are a few treatable disorders whose symptoms will come and go with wonderful health inbetween, and a full blood panel and exam may show perfect numbers & appearance. 

Glad she is safely in your care and arms.


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## Ladyscarletthawk

*Update*

Sorry its been so long since I posted an update. the hubs likes to hog the pc lol. I had to take Eve in thursday since altho she initianally was doing better she started to go downhill again. SHe wasnt throwing up but her lil tummy was getting bloated like thngs werent going thru the way they should. It was hard getting her to drink again. Well the wet gave her SD A/D to help get extra calories in also gave her a vit b shot and nutrical. Plus he tested her for Addisons as she was showing some pretty classic signs.. it was her shaking and low sodium that suggested it more convincingly. 

I have also been walking her small trips to get her bowels moving and it has worked wonders. She has more strength and is happier as days go by. She still needs coaxing to eat but is eating. She is drinking a lot.. she always has, and is peeing a lot.. which she always has. She is also brighter eyed and showed interest in her toys, but has not played yet.

Well her addisons came back and said she was a high normal.. a few points away from being abnormal. The vet kept saying she was an interesting little dog considering her history and bloodwork, and that she has him totaling stumped. SHe had a cushings test almost 2 yrs ago and they were perfectly normal, altho that is when her liver acted up. I shouldnt be suprised when she was younger i have suspected thyroid dysfunction but 3 test says she is low normal.. again just tap dancing outside the range of abnormal. 

As of now we are doing a wait and see and hope she gets back on track. I am also going to switch her to one of the limited ingredient Natural Balance recipes.. kibble that is. Seems like she cant eat enough to keep weight on her on the canned version.. like there isnt enough room in there. She barely eats what I give her now. She has always kept weight on with kibble...


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