# Toy x Mini breeding = what size offspring?



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I don't know, I don't think they are either toys or minis anymore and I don't quite think I understand why people would do it. It seems better to breed in size for all three sizes (or four if you are reading this in Europe). Sometimes a mini will be produced that is under 10" or over 15" and a toy might end up going over 10", but that is the luck of taking the draw from the gene pool.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I just wonder, if both the dam and sire are registered,( 1 as a toy and 1 as a miniature) what would you register the puppies as? It seems 'dishonest' to register them as either........but then would you be able to register them at all? Doesn't it say somewhere they are all considered the same dog....but does that carry through to size too? Inquiring minds want to know HAHAHA!!!!


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

In canada, poodles are only registered as poodles. Size is what differentiates the varieties. So if the dog ended up under 10" it would be a toy, if it ended up 10-15" it would be a mini.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

AKC calls all three sizes poodles so in theory you could breed a toy to a standard and still register the puppies as poodles just show them by the size they grew to...


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

spindledreams said:


> AKC calls all three sizes poodles so in theory you could breed a toy to a standard and still register the puppies as poodles just show them by the size they grew to...


If that's the case, mine aren't oversized toys, they'd be minis. I could live with that, I suppose. 
I don't care what size mine are. They're perfect anyway.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Breeding a large toy to a small mini might be a way to get a new set of genes into a breeding program, such as increasing the red color in a line that tends to fade. Either way, it's still a poodle. You simply register it as a poodle. Noelle is registered as a poodle, so are her parents.

I believe that red standard poodles came from a red mini bred to a small apricot standard.
ShangriLa 

I don't know if this is true or not. I do know that Noelle's pedigree has champion standards, and non-champion minis, and, let's everyone gasp together in horror, a champion toy or, ahem, six. 

It's why Noelle's 18 inches tall and 18 pounds at nine months. She's spayed, and I wasn't planning on showing her. I just know Noelle is the right poodle for me. To me, she's the best of all three sizes in one red-headed sweetheart.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

I don't understand why one would breed a Toy to a Mini. And wouldn't give ANY advice to someone who was doing it.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Countryboy said:


> I don't understand why one would breed a Toy to a Mini. And wouldn't give ANY advice to someone who was doing it.



Click n Treats explanation was a good one - in the hands of a breeder who knows what they are doing, and has a specific goal in mind, it can be done,
My breeder told me that she introduced some mini's into her toy line about 15 years ago looking for certain traits, sold off the large offspring, and kept smaller ones in her breeding program?
Maybe that's why Timi looks more like a Spoo than a Toy?


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Click-N-Treat said:


> Breeding a large toy to a small mini might be a way to get a new set of genes into a breeding program, such as increasing the red color in a line that tends to fade. Either way, it's still a poodle. You simply register it as a poodle. Noelle is registered as a poodle, so are her parents.
> 
> I believe that red standard poodles came from a red mini bred to a small apricot standard.
> ShangriLa
> ...


Just have to say, Noelle's facial expression is priceless!! ❤


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Most intervarity breedings are done with a specific goal in mind be it a color, or to improve something you feel you can't find in the size you raise. Mini x Standard have been done to increase diversity, Mini x Standard to bring in the red genes, Mini x toy to improve type, etc. IF you don't have a plan it is not breeding it is tossing two dogs together to sell puppies.


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