# breeder search burnout!



## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

i think leullman's breeder, noriko, in northridge, may have puppies. she breeds minis and standards. i would ask him about her. i know there are a couple of other breeders in ca advertising puppies. in all cases, i would say do a search at pf for comments on those breeders. a couple of them have had red flags posted before.

best of luck. i


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I know how frustrating it is when you want a dog so badly and it takes a long time to find one from a reputable breeder. Reputable breeders don't breed a ton of dogs and they do all health testing for whatever can be tested for in the breed. 

Going with a back yard breeder is risky business. You may think you're saving money but then along comes some health issue that can break the bank some time down the road. Or their temperament might not be so good. Good temperament is everything. And a good breeder will begin the socialization process so your dog is ready for your continued and extremely important early socialization. 

Have you contacted the Poodle Club in your area? Sometimes those people can tell you about others in the club who are having puppies sometime soon. It is not uncommon to have to get on waiting lists for a litter from a breeder with a good reputation. Just because they show or are in a breed club doesn't guarantee they are good breeders. Look for not only show titles or sport/working titles but also listen to talk from other people who know them, who have gotten puppies from them. Find out about their reputation. If at all possible, go see the breeders' homes, where the puppies are raised. (they should be raised inside the house as family members) And in a clean environment, not locked up in little cages. The puppies should be clean and well groomed and happy.

You can visit a dog show or two and talk to people showing your breed, but not when they're about to go into the ring. lol.

Take your time. Try with all your might to be patient. It will pay off in the end. You'll get a better chance of getting a health puppy with a great temperament, a breeder who will back you up throughout the life of your dog, who will be there to answer questions, hook you up with all kinds of things you might need. Find someone you think you can develop a relationship with.

Anyhow, the whole prospect is very exciting and again, I do understand your eagerness. But do take your time, do your research and I think you'll be happier in the end. Good luck!


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

JenO said:


> So I've been waiting patiently to get a dog for most of my adult life, but my nomadic field biologist lifestyle didn't permit it till now. My husband and I are settled down, but our housing didn't allow pets, so we're moving (my demand!) into a pet friendly rental house with a big fenced yard this month. Because we don't own a home yet, I couldn't really make plans to get a puppy until I was SURE we had a rental locked in (so hard to find pet friendly digs!!)
> Long story short, we're moving this month and I'm putting the puppy search into high gear. I'm having a seriously hard time finding a companion puppy for under $2500 in northern CA, and I had a couple of mixed reviews of two of the breeders I was considering, so I am totally discouraged. Adding to my frustration (sort of...) -- there's a litter of 8 week old standards ready to go in the town that I live in (Eureka, CA), but it's a backyard breeding. Nice lady, def. not doing anything terribly shady, just really loves her dog and wanted her to have a litter of puppies. They look like healthy, well socialized puppies but only mom had hips done (good) and dad has had no testing. A lot of Sisco lines on both sides, I have no idea if that means anything good or bad. I am only SORT OF considering a puppy from this litter, am I stupid??? :dong:
> There's another breeder in Davis that has older pups right now, sounds great but the 10 hour round trip drive is going to be difficult to accomplish in the next couple weeks and the pups are already 12 weeks old. The breeder I was considering closer to where I am is very adamant about no vaccinations, and that freaks me out a little. I didn't know this would be so hard! Raising the puppy will be easy compared to this
> Anyway, just venting, but advice is greatly appreciated!!!


Personally I wouldn't go with the Byb. I wanted a beautiful high quality pup from a show breeder who did health testing. The byb who just put two dogs together without being fully committed to being a breeder doesn't deserve my money. I want to pay a real BREEDER. 12 week old puppies MIGHT be ok, I would need some reassurance that the breeder has done lots of socialization work with them. 12 weeks is too long to be sitting in a kennel for some puppies and I wouldn't want to start out with a disadvantage. ...and lack of socialization could be a big one. What's with the no vax breeder? Does she not want you to ever vaccinate the puppy? If she is just putting off the vaccines, that would make me really happy! There's a lot of concern about over vaccinating puppies (in case you didn't know) and there's some good opinions that a single vaccine at 12 weeks is all a puppy needs! With rabies to follow according to law, of course. So, that breeder sounds interesting to me. 

or


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

Just playing Devils advocate here but getting a dog from a reputable breeder is not a 100% guarantee that you will have a healthy dog. As an example a puppy I bred both parents champions, both good health test results and she has severe bilateral hip dysplasia as well as microvalvular dysplasia (liver). My heart is broken as another pup has it and still another developed cushings. Breeders can do their best and still have issues. Meanwhile my fist dog was from a byb and he was healthy his whole life so really it's an enormous crap shoot. 

Good luck on your puppy hunting. .


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

shamrockmommy, i am so sorry for you and your puppies. thank you for having the courage, integrity and humility to share your experience.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

That is so true Shamrockmommy...And that is so sad about your puppies...I'm really sorry. What a sad time.

And I know you're so right, but the odds are probably stacked in one's favor statistically (?) with that health testing and reputation for having good longevity in the lines, health etc. 

However to add to your example, my Doberman came from a very reputable breeder and I lost him at 4 years of age to cancer. But it wasn't the cancer that's prevalent in Dobes. (osteosarcoma) It was stomach cancer. But he had liver disease for the last year or so of his life. And that is in the lines. My two little Chihuahuas came from a back yard breeder. Chulita lived to be 14 and the only trouble she had was a heart murmur which eventually led to CHF and killed her. Little Jose` had bad knees, one of which was fixed. Otherwise he's still kickin' at almost 13. 

So, you're right...not a guarantee. But just by logic, if some of those inherent health issues are tested for and absent...as in a dna type situation, then at least you know that particular thing won't come up. But something else might. With a byb, you really don't know much at all. 

Of course, some of these health problems are in ALL the lines and as much as reputable breeders try to improve their generations, some of those things just aren't eliminated. The darn gene pools are so small. There is the idea of more outcrossing to other breeds occasionally to infuse some different blood...to sort of get away from these bottle necks. But that's a whole other topic. :ahhhhh:


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

Poodlerunner said:


> Personally I wouldn't go with the Byb. I wanted a beautiful high quality pup from a show breeder who did health testing. The byb who just put two dogs together without being fully committed to being a breeder doesn't deserve my money. I want to pay a real BREEDER. 12 week old puppies MIGHT be ok, I would need some reassurance that the breeder has done lots of socialization work with them. 12 weeks is too long to be sitting in a kennel for some puppies and I wouldn't want to start out with a disadvantage. ...and lack of socialization could be a big one. What's with the no vax breeder? Does she not want you to ever vaccinate the puppy? If she is just putting off the vaccines, that would make me really happy! There's a lot of concern about over vaccinating puppies (in case you didn't know) and there's some good opinions that a single vaccine at 12 weeks is all a puppy needs! With rabies to follow according to law, of course. So, that breeder sounds interesting to me.


I am under the impression that she only does rabies vac (minimum required by law), and I would be happy to do limited/later vaccinations but I want to be able to participate in puppy kindergarten, etc...I sent her an email to clarify so I should get more info soon. I also couldn't find her scores on the offa website so I need to confirm that she does health testing. I just got off the phone with Jaki from Corbacho and she sounds awesome! Her dogs are $3000 though, my husband is going to kill me! So many choices.
Thanks for the advice and commiseration everyone


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

oregon is just across the border. there's a breeder - canzone - in portland. several pf members have canzone dogs. there's another breeder in eugene - njoy - with, apparently, 2 brown males puppies left. you would have to do a further check on that breeder - no comments from any owners here up to now. i would check both. $3k is kind of high imo, especially if you are not insisting on a show dog.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I totally agree with getting a reputable breeder, however I did not know that and got 4 poodles from not BYB but someone that had pups, and I was lucky they turned out great, a little skittish but wonderful dogs. It depends on what you can afford and what you can afford toput into a dog that would have problems.


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

Jeno, I wouldn't let the age of the puppy be a deterrent. We got Callie at 16 weeks and had no problem bonding, training or anything else. Also, many breeders sell an older puppy for a little less money. California seems to be the most terribly expensive state to buy a standard (I don't know about mini's). You have waited so long and you don't want to be disappointed, so wouldn't it be worth it to find the right breeder, and take a few days off and drive or fly a distance to pick up the puppy? This will be your companion for the next 12-15 years. Check on Facebook as well as there are several sites for poodles, Healthy Litters etc.
The other thing is, I would be leery of a breeder who doesn't vaccinate for parvo/distemper. Rabies vaccination is required by law. What you can do however, is get your puppy the first series of distemper/parvo and the next year do titer testing. Leptospirosis/Lyme Disease/Bordatella vaccine needs depend on the circumstances and where you live, if you board your dog, etc. Research has shown that once immunity is attained, it is often retained for many years, making an annual booster unnecessary. Thus if you have a titer test yearly you can limit shots to when immunity falls.
As far as becoming frustrated looking for the right breeder, I share your pain. I searched for months for Callie, and longer for our silver mini girl, who I will fly across the country to pick up this month. I didn't expect to have that extra expense but she is worth it, and I didn't want her shipped. I would definitely recommend going with a breeder who does health testing though.
Everyone is different, so all the suggestions made here are just that, suggestions. 
Have you considered getting a rescue poodle? So many people on this site and on poodle facebook sites have rescued wonderful poodles who desperately need a home for one reason or another and if cost is an issue, a rescue poodle might be an option for you?


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

$3,000?! Holy moley! I need to move to California! That is very high!

We do one shot at nine weeks, and then ask the new owners to do a second 28 days later. 28 days after that they are encouraged to titer. But I do believe those first two shots are imperative for the safety of the pups.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Don't give up on your dream. It took a lot of searching for me to get my dream dog 12 years ago and it was well worth the wait. My girl is still going strong and the joy of my life. I contacted the local state poodle club, AKC, and Poodle Club of America for breeeder referrals. They all were helpful and the same breeder's name kept coming up on all their lists. After emails, phone calls, research and time we came to an agreement and my girl was soon on an airplane to my heart. Do not dispair, do not settle for less than what you deserve. The right dog is out there for you. You may need to travel a bit, even take a flight to pick up your pup, but in the end it will all be worth the hard work and the wait.

I wish you the very best in your search. We do expect puppy pictures when he/she arrives in your home.:angel2:

Viking Queen


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

I can't help you with breeder recommendations, but I would also steer clear of the no vaccination philosophy. Minimal vaccines- yes, but these diseases are deadly and because most dogs are vaccinated, we don't see them that often. 

I've worked a lot in rescue and seen puppies die of Parvovirus- it's horrible. Even if they live, it's very expensive to treat. It's also extremely transmissible and will live on a hard surface for up to a year. You can't keep your pup in a bubble and you can't pour bleach on everything they touch! 

And we will lose the herd immunity if too many people fail to vaccinate. Enough time has gone by that people have forgotten how parvo decimated part of the dog population in the 70s. There may be some old time breeders here that remember- I was young and just remember my parents and their friends talking about it. 

Arreau- I just love your breeding philosophies. Every time you post, I think "Yes- that's the right way to do it!" When I am ready for a mini puppy, I hope to find someone like you!


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

I would like to say ,with respect, If you are unable to make a 10 hour journey to pick up your puppy, then you also do not have the time needed, to carry out the immediate training needs. In the first weeks with you, training is labor intensive and leaving the puppy, home alone, is not an option, I would recommend. I do hope however, you will one day realize your dream, of a healthy, well trained poodle at home. "No vaccination" philosophy is like "snake oil". There is no, proven, reason for it and it can do harm. 
Eric.


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

Eric, I may have to agree with you a little bit on this journey thing. To get Willow it was an 8 hour journey, one way. However, there may be extenuating circumstances here that we don't know about... but, I understand what you are saying.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

One of our clients drove 11 hours each way three times. Once to meet our dogs in two different locations, once to meet and spend two days with our puppies and once to pick up her puppy. THAT is dedication. Wub, another member here, drove 20 hours one way from Minnesota to pick up her puppy. If you find the right breeder, distance should be the smallest of your concerns.


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

JenO. All have given you good advice! If you have no time to drive or travel to get the dog, ask yourself if you are able to spend the time to train and socialize. It is a big commitment, not to be taken lightly - it is a 12-15 year commitment. I've been following Arreau's posts for several years. If you want a wonderful, beautiful spoo - Arreau is the breeder with the gorgeous dogs and the right philosophy,honest and dedicated as well! It doesn't matter if you are in California and they are in Ontario! Its doable if you want it bad enough. I have mini's, but if I were to look for a spoo, Arreau is the breeder I would choose.


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## Beaches (Jan 25, 2014)

Me too Susan g.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Thank you for those votes of confidence and the very kind words! I appreciate that very much!


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

I would wait for the right reputable breeder even if it takes a bit longer. I think while its true you can get a healthy dog from a BYB, you have much better odds wit h a reputable breeder.
Honestly, my dog came from a bYB and i paid 1,200 for her. She has a great temperament and seems healthy. However, I worry every day that something will come up later and we will lose her earlier than we should have. Do you really want to fall in love with your dog and spend every day with worry? I wish i could have avoided that.

I would be patient and wait for the right dog, don't settle , you will not regret it!


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

mom2Zoe said:


> I would wait for the right reputable breeder even if it takes a bit longer. I think while its true you can get a healthy dog from a BYB, you have much better odds wit h a reputable breeder.
> 
> Honestly, my dog came from a bYB and i paid 1,200 for her. She has a great temperament and seems healthy. However, I worry every day that something will come up later and we will lose her earlier than we should have. Do you really want to fall in love with your dog and spend every day with worry? I wish i could have avoided that.
> 
> ...



My previous dog came from a BYB, she lived until 15 1/2.... Do not worry about Zoe! Just love her.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

hopetocurl said:


> Eric, I may have to agree with you a little bit on this journey thing. To get Willow it was an 8 hour journey, one way. However, there may be extenuating circumstances here that we don't know about... but, I understand what you are saying.



Right, like I couldn't travel to pick up Timi because of my older dog's health issues, did not mean that I didn't have time for Timi when she came home.

And SuperTimi says don't write off a 12 week old puppy, she was almost 14 weeks when she came home, and look how terrific she turned out - it really depends upon how dedicated the breeder is to giving the puppy the proper age appropriate experiences!
And actually there was a thread on the forum a while back that talked about age you brought your puppy home vs ease of housebreaking and training, and the consensus, even among Spoo people was that they had a much easier time training the older pups!
All of my toys have come home between 13-16 weeks, and each took under a week, some just two days to totally housebreak


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

Love your dogs and all the pics you post of the puppies! I'm crazy about silvers and apricots (like Callie, who's father is Clifford from Cameo, who I'm sure you know!) Our new puppy will be silver - won't that be a lovely picture of the two walking together!


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

My Spoo Grace came from a breeder 800 miles away. We went over to see her a year before Grace was born. It was a 3 day exercise to bring her home. Australia is a big country. Fortunately we are retired (almost LOL) It was all worth it all.
Eric.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Right, like I couldn't travel to pick up Timi because of my older dog's health issues, did not mean that I didn't have time for Timi when she came home.
> 
> And SuperTimi says don't write off a 12 week old puppy, she was almost 14 weeks when she came home, and look how terrific she turned out - it really depends upon how dedicated the breeder is to giving the puppy the proper age appropriate experiences!
> And actually there was a thread on the forum a while back that talked about age you brought your puppy home vs ease of housebreaking and training, and the consensus, even among Spoo people was that they had a much easier time training the older pups!
> All of my toys have come home between 13-16 weeks, and each took under a week, some just two days to totally housebreak



Well, SuperTimi, 

Your breeder obviously did her job in socializing you. Not all do that, unfortunately. 

Some puppies are bomb proof and can overcome a lack of socialization, but others, are affected by it... some are even crippled by it. I do believe dogs are a combination of nature and nurture.

So, if the breeder you are getting an older puppy from did her job in socializing the puppies, then an older puppy is great, no doubt about it

pr


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlerunner said:


> Well, SuperTimi,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ahh, but then you still have the old nature vs nurture question - even given the best of circumstances, might those puppies still have been "damaged goods"? You just don't know.

I look at it this way - the older a puppy is, the easier it is to discern what their temperament is like - no matter if it is nature or nurture, if you go to visit a puppy 12 weeks or older, the temperament/personality will be evident (or easily testable). 

I wouldn't necessarily have an older puppy shipped like I did if I did not have a breeder that I strongly trusted to evaluate the temperament like I did, but I would have no qualms if I could meet an older puppy for myself, because the proof is in the pudding - what you see is what you get!


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

JenO just be patient if you are meant to find a puppy you will, My brother found Beatrice for me in the classifieds and it was her temperament that won me over.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Ahh, but then you still have the old nature vs nurture question - even given the best of circumstances, might those puppies still have been "damaged goods"? You just don't know.


I can answer this question from my own experience. If a puppy is iffy in personality, it needs to be identified early and worked with. That is the puppy who is going to suffer damage if it is not. It may never be 100% but if left to it's own devices, it will never reach its potential.​


Tiny Poodles said:


> I look at it this way - the older a puppy is, the easier it is to discern what their temperament is like - no matter if it is nature or nurture, if you go to visit a puppy 12 weeks or older, the temperament/personality will be evident (or easily testable).
> 
> I wouldn't necessarily have an older puppy shipped like I did if I did not have a breeder that I strongly trusted to evaluate the temperament like I did, but I would have no qualms if I could meet an older puppy for myself, because the proof is in the pudding - what you see is what you get!


Well that's the thing. You knew for sure that your pup was going to be well socialized. I would 100% agree in that case that older IS better. Piper was 8.5 weeks old and that is very young puppy. I freaked out more than once wondering WTH I was doing with such a young baby!​
pr


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## Pella (Oct 7, 2014)

Just to add my thoughts to this thread as I am in a similar position of REALLY WANTING A PUPPY and having only finite resources towards traveling, and only finite patience towards waiting...my advice is to use common sense. 

In general I am very strongly against backyard breeders. And if I imagine owning and showing a dog that isn't fixed, training it, getting it health tested, and then doing the same thing all over again for the other parent...then spending a bunch of time getting the dogs to breed, vet visits, all before the puppies are even born...well, I get why they cost $2500! I think even at that price they have to be doing it for the love of the breed and not because it makes money. 

All that effort and money gets you to a place where odds are better for the puppy. Odds are good the puppy won't get sick, will have a good temperament, has had good socialization. While it's no guarantee, it certainly makes a tangible difference. 

On the other hand I've met absolutely wonderful healthy mutts that came from the pound and cost $100. (I've just also met a TON of dogs that came from the pound and had a TON of ISSUES! Both physical and emotional.)

For me personally, I want a moyen sized Poodle, which doesn't really exist here in the U.S. except from Karbit. It's important to me to meet my puppy in person before committing to a lifetime together, and I have trouble traveling due to health issues. Also, the money to fly somewhere and back is considerable in my budget, and saving long enough to pay for a $2500 puppy that I also spent $1000 on airfare for isn't totally feasible for me. I'd have to wait a long time to do that. 

My puppy is an $800 Moyen puppy who's parents are not health tested. Yes, that gives me the eebs, big time. But also, the breeder has a great reputation and I've met several of her dogs over the years who all had FANTASTIC temperaments, and were very healthy with the exception of one--my aunt's dog. The breeder is very forthcoming about the health issues she's had in her thirty years of breeding. 

As far as I can tell, having done my due diligence to the best of my ability, I think I have decent odds of having the dog of my dreams this way. I accept that an illness could come up, and I am calculating the possibility of extra vet bills and heartache into the equation. 

I just also think it's important to remember that not everyone acquires their dog in the same way, and the right dogs find the right people in different circumstances. I'm not about to go get a puppy mill puppy! But if you have a local breeder that has puppies, in my mind it isn't the end of the world if you get a puppy from her. You just have to understand the risks inherent to her breeding practices, do due diligence where you can, and use common sense in making a decision. 

Hope that helps.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Oyr of my 8 poodles 6 were 8 months to 3 years when I got them. I have themjust as pets and I found the older dog 100% easier to train than a puppy. My cayenne was 1.5 yrs old, not house broke she would sneak and do things. In one week had her going outside with praise and treats.

One day the wind blew her over 3 times and I had to bath her as she wet on her leg, went and got a potty pad and within 4 days she was trained, now I stayed on her. Now when she goes she comes and sits as I am working in the office and makes a squeaky sound. I ask did mommy's baby potty, she jumps up runs to the potty pad and stares at the cook jar setting on the stand above the potty pad. For me with tiny poodles potty pad is the only way to go.  

Does anyone know if they will still go outside when traveling if trained to a potty pad, that is my only concern


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Pella said:


> Just to add my thoughts to this thread as I am in a similar position of REALLY WANTING A PUPPY and having only finite resources towards traveling, and only finite patience towards waiting...my advice is to use common sense.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Going that route, it would be extra wise to get a good health insurance for the puppy!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

glorybeecosta said:


> Oyr of my 8 poodles 6 were 8 months to 3 years when I got them. I have themjust as pets and I found the older dog 100% easier to train than a puppy. My cayenne was 1.5 yrs old, not house broke she would sneak and do things. In one week had her going outside with praise and treats.
> 
> One day the wind blew her over 3 times and I had to bath her as she wet on her leg, went and got a potty pad and within 4 days she was trained, now I stayed on her. Now when she goes she comes and sits as I am working in the office and makes a squeaky sound. I ask did mommy's baby potty, she jumps up runs to the potty pad and stares at the cook jar setting on the stand above the potty pad. For me with tiny poodles potty pad is the only way to go.
> 
> Does anyone know if they will still go outside when traveling if trained to a potty pad, that is my only concern



Timi was pad trained first, and has also learned to go outside, but that I think is because she has spent a lot of time at dog parks sniffing what other dogs were doing and that gave her the message that it was also OK (and I was ready with treats in my pocket when she did). My other girls who are pad trained have never spent much time sniffing outside where other dogs have gone, and they are no more likely to pee outside than I am lol. But they will use a pee pad out of the house as long as it is indoors, which is a pain, so I am thrilled that Timi will do both, it does make travel much easier!


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

Hi all, lots of helpful thoughts and opinions. We're moving next weekend (into the pet-friendly house!), which is why I can't do a 10 hour drive then (I mean, I could leave my husband to do the move by himself, but he'd probably kick me out!). Since I can't make it next weekend, pups would be 14 weeks old by the time I could even go meet them. Which is maybe not a huge deal, but possibly not the right opportunity right now. I plan on taking time off from work initially when I do get a puppy (seriously wish I could take maternity leave for a puppy since I'm not planning on having kids, lol). I get a little irritated with the "if you can't do x, then you certainly won't be able to do y", i.e. if you won't spend 2500 on a dog then you can't afford to take care of a puppy, or if you won't take the time to drive 10 hours to get said puppy you probably don't have the time to train it properly...I think with diligence and careful planning you can make a lot of situations work, and after 10 years of NOT having a dog because I wasn't ready financially and I was moving every 6 months for work, and about 3 years of being settled and doing some serious research, saving, and planning, I'm as ready as I'll ever be. I'm not opposed to finding a breeder farther away--my family is in MN and I've actually considered looking for breeders there and combining pickup with a trip home, but realistically the closer the breeder is the easier it will be to visit and actually see what their setup is like, and to have a relationship in the future. Maybe unrealistic, but time will tell. I'm going to wait till after the move and then see what's still out there. Thanks for the OR breeder suggestions -- a couple of those look promising. And possibly those older pups will still be available after the move -- I guess I wouldn't mind easier housebreaking! Just didn't want to miss out on bonding time. Thanks for all the input! When puppy day comes (or rescue, or whatever!) I will let you all know


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

try to think of this board as filled with anxious would-be aunties and uncles. close your ears when we go overboard, please. hope you find the dog you want. please let us know.


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> $3,000?! Holy moley! I need to move to California! That is very high!
> 
> We do one shot at nine weeks, and then ask the new owners to do a second 28 days later. 28 days after that they are encouraged to titer. But I do believe those first two shots are imperative for the safety of the pups.


I know, it seems like the longer I do research the higher the price gets !!! :afraid:


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

patk said:


> try to think of this board as filled with anxious would-be aunties and uncles. close your ears when we go overboard, please. hope you find the dog you want. please let us know.


I know it, everybody just wants what's best for the puppies! I don't take offense, really -- I know it's all good intentions.


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## Jacknic (Sep 14, 2010)

JenO said:


> Adding to my frustration (sort of...) -- there's a litter of 8 week old standards ready to go in the town that I live in (Eureka, CA), but it's a backyard breeding. Nice lady, def. not doing anything terribly shady, just really loves her dog and wanted her to have a litter of puppies.


JenO,
Sometimes it is not ALL about the puppy, think about this, if the breeder offers a guarantee will she be there to fulfill it, if you have a problem and need some help, will she be there to help you. If she LOVED her dog so much then why did she buy a dog with full registration -- and are you sure the puppies have AKC registration, if not it means she bought a dog under the pretense it would NOT be bred, so she lied to the original breeder. If she loved her dog so much why would she not do even a little more health testing, and want her bred to a dog with health testing? If she loved her dog so much is she keeping a puppy? A lot of times you are not just paying for a puppy, but years and hopefully a friendship with a breeder who takes her job seriously. You must be an educated person, just wait for the right pup and the right breeder. If you are finding it difficult look for a retired show dog or get a rescue, there are certainly enough out there coming from breeders that "love" their dog.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

JenO said:


> Hi all, lots of helpful thoughts and opinions. We're moving next weekend (into the pet-friendly house!), which is why I can't do a 10 hour drive then (I mean, I could leave my husband to do the move by himself, but he'd probably kick me out!). Since I can't make it next weekend, pups would be 14 weeks old by the time I could even go meet them. Which is maybe not a huge deal, but possibly not the right opportunity right now. I plan on taking time off from work initially when I do get a puppy (seriously wish I could take maternity leave for a puppy since I'm not planning on having kids, lol). I get a little irritated with the "if you can't do x, then you certainly won't be able to do y", i.e. if you won't spend 2500 on a dog then you can't afford to take care of a puppy, or if you won't take the time to drive 10 hours to get said puppy you probably don't have the time to train it properly...I think with diligence and careful planning you can make a lot of situations work, and after 10 years of NOT having a dog because I wasn't ready financially and I was moving every 6 months for work, and about 3 years of being settled and doing some serious research, saving, and planning, I'm as ready as I'll ever be. I'm not opposed to finding a breeder farther away--my family is in MN and I've actually considered looking for breeders there and combining pickup with a trip home, but realistically the closer the breeder is the easier it will be to visit and actually see what their setup is like, and to have a relationship in the future. Maybe unrealistic, but time will tell. I'm going to wait till after the move and then see what's still out there. Thanks for the OR breeder suggestions -- a couple of those look promising. And possibly those older pups will still be available after the move -- I guess I wouldn't mind easier housebreaking! Just didn't want to miss out on bonding time. Thanks for all the input! When puppy day comes (or rescue, or whatever!) I will let you all know


Oh, you sound so smart  You have to realize that we are all a little Poodle crazy here. (If you get one, you'll understand). And like every forum, you are going to get the gamut of opinions. 

There is no one perfect situation and any one of the situations you mentioned in your original post, are not black and white. One of those breeders might have your puppy right now. Even though getting such a wide gamut of opinions can seem confusing, at least you know what to look out for. 

If you don't mind one more input about the byb option, ask yourself if it will matter to you how far from the official standard the offspring may deviate. She is a person who bred her pet, so what the pup will ultimately be like is a crapshoot since SHE has NO idea. All puppies are cute to the average eye, but puppyhood is a fleeting time, so you have to decide if you would be ok with an ill bred spoo to take this option. Really, you should just be paying an adoption fee, that's all they are worth in dollars, IMO. To spend any kind of money on a pure bred dog, you are paying for the breeders knowledge based on years of breeding experience and knowing her lines, as well as health testing _and_ proving her breeding stock to be worthy of being bred. 

I hope you stick around because, if you get a spoo, you are going to love it here. Really, the outside world cannot understand what it's like to have a Poodle... such thinkers!

pr


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## Paragon (Feb 18, 2012)

Jacki Chadbon, Corbaccho, had pups around Christmas. She has some long lived lines(mid to late teens). I would give her a ring. I am not sure how far She is from you, About 45 min from San Fransisco... She can be VERY PICKY, but worth the effort and then some... They will be Silver/ and or Blue... i so wish I could take one of the 2 girls.....


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## 2719 (Feb 8, 2011)

JenO said:


> I just got off the phone with Jaki from Corbacho and she sounds awesome! Her dogs are $3000 though, my husband is going to kill me! So many choices.
> Thanks for the advice and commiseration everyone





Paragon said:


> Jacki Chadbon, Corbaccho, had pups around Christmas. She has some long lived lines(mid to late teens). I would give her a ring. I am not sure how far She is from you, About 45 min from San Fransisco... She can be VERY PICKY, but worth the effort and then some... They will be Silver/ and or Blue... i so wish I could take one of the 2 girls.....


Sounds like she already spoke to her, but pups are a bit too pricey.


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

Poodlerunner said:


> Really, you should just be paying an adoption fee, that's all they are worth in dollars, IMO. To spend any kind of money on a pure bred dog, you are paying for the breeders knowledge based on years of breeding experience and knowing her lines, as well as health testing _and_ proving her breeding stock to be worthy of being bred.


Totally! That is actually how I think about it too...my husband was like "can't we just get the $900 dog" and I told him sure, but at that point it's a crap shoot and I'd rather give my money to a rescue. But, why not weigh all the options with you nice folks to help me


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Paragon said:


> Jacki Chadbon, Corbaccho, had pups around Christmas. She has some long lived lines(mid to late teens). I would give her a ring. I am not sure how far She is from you, About 45 min from San Fransisco... She can be VERY PICKY, but worth the effort and then some... They will be Silver/ and or Blue... i so wish I could take one of the 2 girls.....


I would do it! Getting a good pup pays its way in the end; getting a poorly bred pup can lead to years of regret. Just go good quality, you'll never regret it.


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

Paragon said:


> Jacki Chadbon, Corbaccho, had pups around Christmas. She has some long lived lines(mid to late teens). I would give her a ring. I am not sure how far She is from you, About 45 min from San Fransisco... She can be VERY PICKY, but worth the effort and then some... They will be Silver/ and or Blue... i so wish I could take one of the 2 girls.....


yes, I would love one of those dogs! still thinking about it. I love that she doesn't dock the tails too. they are just above the spending limit I had set for myself (which has already been raised several times!)


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Tail docking is now against the law in Australia.
Do think about dew claw removal at a very few weeks while with the breeder.
You should not do it later. And dew claws are a real health problem.
Eric


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

have you checked out the norcal poodle rescue website? they have an adoption showing january 18 in walnut creek posted on their front page.


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## cmarrie (Sep 17, 2014)

JenO said:


> I get a little irritated with the "if you can't do x, then you certainly won't be able to do y", i.e. if you won't spend 2500 on a dog then you can't afford to take care of a puppy, or if you won't take the time to drive 10 hours to get said puppy you probably don't have the time to train it properly...


I agree completely that the lengths you are willing to go to obtain your puppy equating to your ability to train and care for the puppy is bunk. I know lots of people have traveled at great expense to bring home a bundle of joy, and that is fine for them, but not for me. (just like I won't by my kid an ipad or a phone at 10 because I think its ridiculous, unnecessary and expensive...but if my friend wants to for theirs, good for them, not my business). It's one thing to budget food, toys and vet care into my monthly budget, quite another to drop a few thousand dollars on an adoption fee & travel costs and spend days or weeks stressed and planning for it. I quite frankly don't have either to spare. I don't travel well, myself, my son gets car sick and my husband hates travel as he drives an awful lot for work. Bringing home a new puppy has it's own stresses and adding extended travel to it sounds (to me) like a horrible way to start out. My unwillingness to spend more than $1000, or drive more than 2 hours each way has nothing to do with my ability to spend time and attention throughout my day loving my puppy and teaching him how my world works and how he fits into it. It doesn't make me any more or less fit as a dog owner. My love, time and attention are not only free, but far more abundant than what's in my bank account.

I in no way condone supporting back yard breeders or puppy mills. But one thing I can never seem to wrap my head around is that it's Ok to rescue a dog knowing nothing about it's parentage, quality of breeding, history of trauma, origin or what future health difficulties it may develop, yet if you stumble across and fall in love pups who needs a good home, come from dogs with good temperament, who are loved and cared for by their owners, you should still run the other way because they don't come from an experienced breeder with health testing, contracts and a high price tag. Why should that poor puppy have to go through horrors and end up in a shelter before it's ok to adopt it? Wouldn't it be better to save them the damage and love them safely from the start? I suppose that's a debate for another day and another thread.

My In-laws' spoo came to them older--16 weeks or so, was well bred and amazing! We inherited him at age 2 when my FIL passed. Our beloved spoo suffered from bloat at age 4 had we had to let him go. Our current spoo came to us at 11 weeks old. He was comfortable from the start in his crate and housebroke quickly. Right now he is 7 months old. Strong, healthy, comes from a (different) small breeder whom I know (knew) nothing about, and have not kept in contact with (she didn't respond to my last messages several months ago) but we fell into him in an unexpected way and love him just the same. He's sweet as honey, eager to please and when the "puppy brain" grows little more will be smart as a whip. I traveled 1.5 hours to get him and paid $750. Only the mother had health testing. Will he have health problems as he ages? Maybe. If so, we'll deal with it. He still deserves the best home I can provide him. 

What I think it comes down to is that searching for a dog, will be as stressful and difficult as you make it, depending on your standards and boundaries. Clearly, you are going about it in a responsible way, and will be prepared to care for your puppy whatever the future brings. I say whatever dog ends up choosing YOU, will be the perfect one for you. Good luck in finding him and I can't WAIT to see the pictures when you do.


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