# learning about breeding



## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't know about any books, but I know that speaking to a multitude of breeders and forming close relations with them and having them guide newbies is how most breeders have started. Contact local breeders and become close them with, join the local poodle clubs (my 'local' club is an hour and a half away but...I plan on attending and applying for a membership soon ( )

If there are any book suggestions I'd like to hear about them as well though.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Jessie's Mom said:


> i'm wondering if anyone can suggest a book that touches on poodle breeding and genetics with regards to health testing, dna for color and hereditary conditions, etc.
> i know it takes years and years to be able to wrap your brain around all there is to know, however, i would like to get a good base of understanding that i could eventually expand upon.
> any suggestion (besides this forum) would be appreciated. it is because of this forum that my interest has grown and my desire to learn has become even more intense.
> i studied human genetics in college, so i have the necessary basics. i know there is a lot involved in breeding and i would like to start understanding the important aspects now.


Jessie's mom:

I really like the following books. They helped me alot.

1. Canine Reproduction (A breeder's guide) by Pphyllis A Holst, MS, DVM
2. The Joy of breeding your own show dog by Ann Seranne (with foreword 
by Julie Gaso)
3. Breeding a Litter The complete book of prenatal and postnatal care.
by Beth J. Finder Harris.


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## cliffdweller (Jan 31, 2011)

Sorry, don't have a book reference ... new to Poodles ~~~

But, when I was looking around for a dog, I read around a bit at this site : Canine Diversity Homepage. It's certainly a discussion from a specific perspective, but there is some interesting reading there.

Also, there are some good discussions (and references, if I remember correctly) on this site : "We're responsible breeders…" - Ruffly Speaking (not just the article under the link, nor do I agree with all that's said here).

*________________*


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

WP and Nu2P, thank you both!! i am going to look into those books and look up those sites!

i know this forum is packed with great breeders who are generous with sharing their knowledge, but sometimes it is good to have the info organized for you.

so, keith, we have some reading material is you are interested!!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

The Complete Poodle is a really good book. It explains everything about conformation in the Poodle. Yes you guys...get reading...lol!!


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Jessie's Mom said:


> WP and Nu2P, thank you both!! i am going to look into those books and look up those sites!
> 
> i know this forum is packed with great breeders who are generous with sharing their knowledge, but sometimes it is good to have the info organized for you.
> 
> so, keith, we have some reading material is you are interested!!


Jessie'smom and Keith:
Another wonderful book and tool to refer to if you are already on the topic of poodle breeding , raising litters and health testing etc... I believe that one also must know poodle conformation if they are to study the breed in general.
I read a wonderful book called K-9 Structure and Terminology by Edward M. GIlbert, Jr. and Thelma R. Brown. Great reading and invaluable information for the beginner and old timer alike.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Keithsomething said:


> I don't know about any books, but I know that speaking to a multitude of breeders and forming close relations with them and having them guide newbies is how most breeders have started. Contact local breeders and become close them with, join the local poodle clubs (my 'local' club is an hour and a half away but...I plan on attending and applying for a membership soon ( )
> 
> If there are any book suggestions I'd like to hear about them as well though.


Keith: You are starting on the right foot. Yes we all started somewhere and to hook up with a long time breeder you respect and have trust in is a wonderful beginning. Mentors are invaluable to any newcommer, none of us were able to do it alone. We also started with mentors.


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

whitepoodles said:


> Keith: You are starting on the right foot. Yes we all started somewhere and to hook up with a long time breeder you respect and have trust in is a wonderful beginning. Mentors are invaluable to any newcommer, none of us were able to do it alone. We also started with mentors.


the amount of information that i've learned in the year i am on this forum is amazing. i WISH i had a breeder close by who i could connect with. there is one breeder in staten island (city lights standard poodles), however, what would i do? call her and see if she were receptive to me? another thing, here i am in this big old wonderful city of new york and i have less available to me regarding dog shows or competitions of any sort than my friends who live in less densely populated areas. very frustrating. i have the next best thing which is a longgggggggggg distance relationship with a breeder who is happy to mentor me - just wish i had more around me...


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> The Complete Poodle is a really good book. It explains everything about conformation in the Poodle. Yes you guys...get reading...lol!!


cherie!! found a book, not sure if it is the one you are recommending, this one is called "the complete standard poodle book" by eileen geeson. i was so excited to find it & tried to order it to take on my trip with me. however, not through amazon or barnes & noble would i be able to get it by thursday - we leave friday ( would've been great to take on the ship with me and read poolside


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Jessie's Mom said:


> the amount of information that i've learned in the year i am on this forum is amazing. i WISH i had a breeder close by who i could connect with. there is one breeder in staten island (city lights standard poodles), however, what would i do? call her and see if she were receptive to me? another thing, here i am in this big old wonderful city of new york and i have less available to me regarding dog shows or competitions of any sort than my friends who live in less densely populated areas. very frustrating. i have the next best thing which is a longgggggggggg distance relationship with a breeder who is happy to mentor me - just wish i had more around me...


Jessie's mom:
You dont have to have a breeder close by really to have them mentor you. My mentor lived 4 hours away and I was still able to be mentored. I would also take my puppies to her house so that we both grade them together and I have learnt much from her. She did and still does live in the U.S. and I in Canada. After years of being mentored, I had cut the umbilical cord and went on my own as I felt I have learnt all that I can to venture on my own... but I will be forever indebted to her for teaching about poodles and breeding.
If you live in the N.York area, there is a dog show in Syracuse, N.Y. and I know that several reputable breeder exhibitors will show their dogs there. If you reside a 4 -5 hours away it is still dooable and you can come to this show and speak to many breeders there and hook up with someone you find you can trust and like. The Syracuse dog show is next weekend on March 31st April 1-2-3. I will be there, so will my dog being shown by my Can. handler.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Ora is right AM...the breeder does not have to be close for them to mentor you. With Skype you can get help with haircuts and whelping. With the awesome long distance plans available now, you can talk on the phone as much as you need to...Keith and I will be doing it long distance. I would suggest though that if you are hoping to show, ever, that you hook up with a handler or show breeder in your area so you can learn the ropes hands on and get familiar and comfortable with the routine of a dog show, how to stack a dog, how to move a dog...and also someone who will do show grooms for you.

I realize as time goes on how incredibly lucky I was that my mentor was my Mom and that I either lived with her or right next door to her. This is certainly not the norm though.


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

whitepoodles said:


> Jessie's mom:
> You dont have to have a breeder close by really to have them mentor you. My mentor lived 4 hours away and I was still able to be mentored. I would also take my puppies to her house so that we both grade them together and I have learnt much from her. She did and still does live in the U.S. and I in Canada. After years of being mentored, I had cut the umbilical cord and went on my own as I felt I have learnt all that I can to venture on my own... but I will be forever indebted to her for teaching about poodles and breeding.
> If you live in the N.York area, there is a dog show in Syracuse, N.Y. and I know that several reputable breeder exhibitors will show their dogs there. If you reside a 4 -5 hours away it is still dooable and you can come to this show and speak to many breeders there and hook up with someone you find you can trust and like. The Syracuse dog show is next weekend on March 31st April 1-2-3. I will be there, so will my dog being shown by my Can. handler.


thank you, WP. actually, i have a breeder that i hope will mentor me and she is long distance. i want to absorb all i can and learn about breeding & showing, but more importantly to me, right now, is learning how to spot a well conformed poodle, to learn how to use the PHR, understand the genetics of breeding (i studied human genetics in college so i am sure the concept is the same), become familiar with some of the current american and canadian finished dogs and how they integrate into so many lines, etc. my actual breeding of a dog will not be for a couple of years, only due to the amount of current responsibilities in my life. i acutally did a couple of breedings with siberian huskies years back and even did some conformation showing of the male - he got points but never finished just due to the lack of time - and obedience competitions with the female who also did well. so, my point is, i'm not completely unaware.

syracuse is pretty far away and actually i will be away from 4/1 thru 4/10. i am going to try to make the PCA since i have a home about 40 minutes away in maryland, just can't make the whole event due to work committments.

i will definitely start with the books and keep close to the breeder i've gotten to know well and, of course, will hound all the rest of you on this forum!!


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> Ora is right AM...the breeder does not have to be close for them to mentor you. With Skype you can get help with haircuts and whelping. With the awesome long distance plans available now, you can talk on the phone as much as you need to...Keith and I will be doing it long distance. I would suggest though that if you are hoping to show, ever, that you hook up with a handler or show breeder in your area so you can learn the ropes hands on and get familiar and comfortable with the routine of a dog show, how to stack a dog, how to move a dog...and also someone who will do show grooms for you.
> 
> I realize as time goes on how incredibly lucky I was that my mentor was my Mom and that I either lived with her or right next door to her. This is certainly not the norm though.


again, thank you, cherie - canada is not so far away :canada: and skype does bring it even closer !!:wink:


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## Trillium (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks everyone on the info I love reading and now have some new books to look for. 

Jessie's Mom Cherie is right long distance can be good to. Cherie, bless her heart has given me grooming lessons in person which was great. But the biggest lesson she gave me, before I did my first complete groom on my own, was via the internet over skype. Then I sent her some pics of my work in progress and finished results and she made suggestions. She even sent me pics of the back of Holly's heard at my urgent request.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Jessie'smom:

Just reading your posts I have NO doubt that you are on the right path. You want to work from A to Z not Z to A.
So many come on board and want to start breeding ASAP, they dont bother to study the breed, or pedigrees to talk to many breeders and like sponges absorb what is important first health and temperament, NOT ribbons, and that is why some come in very fast into the breed and disappear as fast as they came in.
The steps to take is learn as much as you can about the breed, read as much as you can also, go to many shows and seminars available near your area or close by, amass knowledge from savvy well reputed and HONEST breeders you know will give you the right information and not shove genetic dirt under the rug, and go to PCA. a wonderful time and meeting the breeder you want to pick their brain. There are many there, some honest ones and some not honest one and more than anything DO NOT LISTEN TO IDLE GOSSIP, there is alot of jealousy in the show world and some will massacre a breeder's good reputation if they do not like the fact that they win. Listen to your heart and logic and follow the beat of your own drum, not the masses.... and you will succeed.
The fact that you already have genetic education under your belt will help you tremendously in your venture.
Good luck !


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

QUOTE=Trillium;163148]Thanks everyone on the info I love reading and now have some new books to look for. 

Jessie's Mom Cherie is right long distance can be good to. Cherie, bless her heart has given me grooming lessons in person which was great. But the biggest lesson she gave me, before I did my first complete groom on my own, was via the internet over skype. The I sent her some pics of my work in progress and finished results and she made suggestions. She even sent me pics of the back of Holly's heard at my urgent request.[/QUOTE]

trillium, thank you for the encouragement!! :cheers2: - i'm going to take all this advice and just move forward....and i know with who, too. ::biggrin1:


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

whitepoodles said:


> Jessie'smom:
> 
> Just reading your posts I have NO doubt that you are on the right path. You want to work from A to Z not Z to A.
> So many come on board and want to start breeding ASAP, they dont bother to study the breed, or pedigrees to talk to many breeders and like sponges absorb what is important first health and temperament, NOT ribbons, and that is why some come in very fast into the breed and disappear as fast as they came in.
> ...


WP, i am involved in women's fitness - i am a partner in an all women's gym - and when i personal train my clients or teach a class, the first thing i do is leave my ego at the door. it is so NOT about me - it is about that one person or that group of women. i feel the same way about this passion of mine - it is so not about me, it is about the poodle, their health, safety, and happiness. so with this venture, i will also leave my ego at the door. so many times i've come across many who do not conduct themselves this way - it really is about THEM and for that reason, they will not succeed unless success to them is just having bragging rights. WP & Arreau, thank you both so much for being two the wonderful breeders i've "met" on this forum, who also leave their ego at the door.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Jessie's Mom said:


> WP, i am involved in women's fitness - i am a partner in an all women's gym - and when i personal train my clients or teach a class, the first thing i do is leave my ego at the door. it is so NOT about me - it is about that one person or that group of women. i feel the same way about this passion of mine - it is so not about me, it is about the poodle, their health, safety, and happiness. so with this venture, i will also leave my ego at the door. so many times i've come across many who do not conduct themselves this way - it really is about THEM and for that reason, they will not succeed unless success to them is just having bragging rights. WP & Arreau, thank you both so much for being two the wonderful breeders i've "met" on this forum, who also leave their ego at the door.



Jessie's mom:

SO well and elloquently put. 

True..... to SOME , dog shows, ribbons, special's , winning, is all about Ego not necessarily for the betterment of the breed.

Some of these breeders have and will always exist. The thing is to NOT succumb to your ego and put the dogs and their welfare, as you say first.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Jessie's Mom said:


> WP, i am involved in women's fitness - i am a partner in an all women's gym - and when i personal train my clients or teach a class, the first thing i do is leave my ego at the door. it is so NOT about me - it is about that one person or that group of women. i feel the same way about this passion of mine - it is so not about me, it is about the poodle, their health, safety, and happiness. so with this venture, i will also leave my ego at the door. so many times i've come across many who do not conduct themselves this way - it really is about THEM and for that reason, they will not succeed unless success to them is just having bragging rights. WP & Arreau, thank you both so much for being two the wonderful breeders i've "met" on this forum, who also leave their ego at the door.


You are going to do well in this venture. You have your head screwed on straight, you have the right attitude, and a good heart. You are VERY welcome! There are people who are only too happy to help, with a genuine and sincere heart.


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