# Is grain free kibble recommended for a 8 month SPOO with IBD?



## AngelsMommy (Nov 3, 2012)

Since ibd is said to be sometimes caused by allergies, grains might be a good place to start. If he is having b-12 shots and responding, then he may be not absorbing things well. That can cause deficiencies. I have in the past been in that boat and it is not fun. I would definitely check into what foods work best for your baby. For myself, I found out I could not have barley or any of the things made from or with it.  Hope you find out what it is that is distressing your baby and things all work out. Once I found out what I was dealing with it has been so much easier. But then you have to read all labels and that is a pain. But not as bad for your baby as dogs don't tend to eat as many different things as their humans do...


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

My sister in law's poodle had loose stools and eye drips on several foods. She experimented over several months and ended up with Halo. Her dog has perfect poops, no eye drips and is very healthy. You might need to experiment, but Halo, although kind of expensive, worked wonders for her boy. 

My whippet was fat and when I switched him to grain free he became super healthy and vigorous plus slimmed down to a great weight. 

I have experimented with a few different foods recently for my slim, active standard to get some more weight on him. Since the grain free slimmed my whippet, I thought maybe it wasn't quite right for my naturally slim standard pup. He doesn't seem to have any allergies or poop issues. I started giving him BB lamb and brown rice. Then a breeder told me to try the salmon especially for the coat, so I am. I am currently mixing Pinnacle salmon (which is grain free) in with BB lamb and brown rice. The Pinnacle Salmon has pumpkin in it. 

My point is you need to experiment to find out what might be bothering your dog. Every dog is different. My sister in law finally decided it was potato that was bothering hers. Halo doesn't have potato. I haven't quite figured out how to get more weight on my boy, but I can say he loooves the Pinnacle Salmon and is eating every bite of his food now.

You can also buy vitamins or that powdered supplement by LM Farms meant for working dogs like border collies. It has pre- and probiotics for digestion plus a bunch of other stuff.

Happy experimenting!


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

Have you researched a raw diet?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Outwest, odd that a grain free diet would slim your whippet. In general, grain free diets are richer and more calorie dense than grain inclusive.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Yes, it slimmed my whippet nicely and got him in great condition. I figured it was because it didn't have a bunch of carbohydrates in it, although it does have potato as a binder. I'll have to investigate the calorie content of the grain inclusive and compare it. Will report back. I can only say that's what happened.

edit: looked it up quickly:

with grain (calculated metabolizable energy)
3, 653 kcal/kg 
grain free (calculated metabolizable energy)
3,489 Kcals/kg

There are fewer metabolizable energy calories in the grain free, but the calories per cup is higher in the grain free:
with grain
342 calories per cup
grain free
410 calories per cup

The key is the metabolizable energy, which is higher with grain. 
Interesting.


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## WillyBilly (Jan 8, 2013)

Thanks everyone. Willy has has 3 B-12 injections and has shown improvement in the firmness of his stools, however, he still has frequent cow pie plops and lately even some soft serve ice cream appearing stools. Today, I purchased a bag of Wellness Simple Grain FreeTurkey & Potato limited ingredient kibble. Since he is already on BB Basics limited ingredient Turkey & Potato I thought transitioning would be easier on me and his digestive system. Once he is alright with this new food I intend on transitioning to the Salmon & Potato variety. I'll keep you all updated. He gets his first sampling tonight. 


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

I have been feeding Blue wilderness duck grain free to my puppy since 4-5 months old, she is 9 months old now... I didnt want to give her puppy food, since she is a reallt big spoo... and her dad is 90lbs. I was afraid of her getting to big and having hip problems..

I believe grain free is great, her poops are great and energy level , coat.. etc

And she seems healthy, I checked with some friends here at the forum and they said she seems to be doing well, since she is 9 months old, 25'' to the shoulder and 55lbs, last time I checked 2-3 weeks ago


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## WillyBilly (Jan 8, 2013)

Seems that Willy is itching quite a bit on his body and tops of his feet, since I changed, just two days ago, from BB Turkey & Potato limited ingredient to Wellness Grain Free, Turkey & Potato limited ingredient. The Wellness Protein and Fat increased only by a few percentages and has the grain removed, otherwise they are very similar. Can itching occur in two days time?


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## caroline429 (Mar 5, 2012)

WillyBilly said:


> The Wellness Protein and Fat increased only by a few percentages and has the grain removed, otherwise they are very similar. Can itching occur in two days time?


Cali has allergies and I can tell within a day when she's eaten something she's allergic to because the itching most definitely increases!

She was scratching when I brought her home at the age of 4 1/2 months. A few months later, she started having loose poops. She was tested for every parasite going and was negative for everything. Complete chem and CBC bloodwork showed nothing out of the ordinary. All that was left was allergies which the breeder had quite truthfully told me were in her lines on one side.

I've had Rottweilers in the past who had IBD but they had food sensitivities, not allergies, so there was no itching. I managed to get their gut problems under control with novel ingredient homecooked diets. One thing I did notice was that they were so sensitive, they would even react to different types of the same vitamin or mineral, for example, calcium carbonate gave my last Rottie loose stools, but not calcium citrate. The new kibble may look almost the same as the old but maybe there is one little thing that is different and that's enough to set off the scratching.

With Cali's combo of itching and loose stool, I've had a heck of a time trying to sort her out. Guaranteed if I found a food her gut liked, her itching would ratchet up. If I found one that didn't make her itchier, she'd have cow plops.

I tried a number of different kibbles, a novel ingredient raw diet and a cooked diet. Since she's just over a year old, I was worried that with all my changing of diets and the elimination diets I'd done, her diet might not have been balanced. I took her to the vet for an ear infection (another lovely side effect of allergies) about a month before she was due to get spayed. I was concerned that if she wasn't on a balanced diet, she might not heal properly after her spay. In desperation, I bought some Purina H/A at the vet's. 

I was stunned to see that within about a week, her stools were normal! She's still a little itchy, but her itching definitely hasn't increased. I don't think I'll ever get rid of it totally because usually a dog with food allergies has environmental ones too. 

Normally she hates kibble but she loves this stuff. It looks like corn pops! LOL People slam it as being crap and low quality but I've got to tell you, Cali's digestive tract and skin sure seem to like it and that's all that matters to me.

Sorry, I got way off track here but have you tried any of the hypoallergenic prescription kibble for your guy? I learned with my Rotties that when you're dealing with IBD, you need to feed whatever works, not what's currently trendy.


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## WillyBilly (Jan 8, 2013)

I agree with you Caroline423, when desperate, we'll try anything. As for Willy's itching, maybe I posted too soon. He hasn't itched at all today. Yesterday we had a big snow and he romped in it lots on and off all day. Maybe he was licking his feet tops because they were wet. Same for his body. This is day 4 for him having the grain free kibble. Yesterday he had only 4 poops; a little soft but I could still pick them up. This morning he had one poop that was very nicely formed. The poops were smaller; more as they should be. I'm encouraged here because it isn't unusual for him to have up to 10 soft poops per day. I was advised to also buy "Fiber" pills to add to his food. I bought a Walmart brand which is a pill that is shaped like a capsule. I give him 1/2 pill with each meal. The person who told me about this breeds and shows large breed dogs. Her daughter bought a $2600.00 show dog with constant diarrhea. Grain free food and one fiber pill with each meal worked for that dog like magic. 


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## caroline429 (Mar 5, 2012)

Wonderful!  Fiber works magic for some IBD dogs and is a disaster for others. I'm so glad it seems to be magical for Willy.


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## WillyBilly (Jan 8, 2013)

Willy did not have IBD; just a B-12 deficiency. I'm so glad that he is well now. The injections and grain free limited ingredient diet made him right. When he is good; my life is better too. 


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## katbrat (May 8, 2011)

I switched Lexi to grain free food about a month ago. I noticed when I cleaned her ears last night that there was no yeast in her ears. It was the cleanest her ears and the cotton pads I use to clean her ears have ever been. In the past she has had very yeasty ears that are always yucky to clean. She didn't get infections, just very yeasty ears. That to me is a huge plus for grain free.


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## caroline429 (Mar 5, 2012)

WillyBilly said:


> Willy did not have IBD; just a B-12 deficiency.


I'm so glad he's feeling better and having lived with a couple of dogs who did have IBD, I know what a relief this is for you too.  

From what I understand, you feed Willy kibble? If nothing else, it provides more than enough in the way of vitamins. Do the vets have any idea how he came to have a B12 deficiency? Does he have an inability to process B12 from food? 

Hope you don't mind me asking, I'm always curious about anything diet-related in dogs. :embarrassed:


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## WillyBilly (Jan 8, 2013)

At this point, the cause of his B-12 deficiency is unknown. There is a possibility he eventually could discontinue the injections and be good. His young age is on his side and he never got to the point of losing weight. The Vet said lack of this vitamin affect the digestive system. He. Gets two more weekly injections, then we begin every two weeks, then every three, etc. if his soft stools and yellowish stools come back, we'll go back to weekly injections. In the meantime, we may have to look deeper as to why this is happening. 


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## caroline429 (Mar 5, 2012)

WillyBilly said:


> if his soft stools and yellowish stools come back, we'll go back to weekly injections. In the meantime, we may have to look deeper as to why this is happening.


I didn't realize he had yellowish stools as well as a B12 deficiency. Was he tested for exocrine pancreatic insufficiency? It's not very common in poodles, but not unheard of. It is treatable with digestive enzymes.


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## WillyBilly (Jan 8, 2013)

He was tested for pancreatitis. His 1st PLI test and one other blood test (don't know the name of that test), leaned towards the possibility of Pancreatitis. A 2nd PLI test, drawn exactly 3 weeks after the 1st, was normal. All other blood tests were normal, except for the B-12 level. I had been taking Willy to one Vet who wasn't taking Willy's soft stools serious. We have an advanced Animal Hospital in my city, so I bit the bullet and took him there. Doctors there are real seasoned. My hesitation taking him there was that the clinic is expensive. So glad I did. 


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## caroline429 (Mar 5, 2012)

WillyBilly said:


> We have an advanced Animal Hospital in my city, so I bit the bullet and took him there. Doctors there are real seasoned. My hesitation taking him there was that the clinic is expensive. So glad I did.


I've taken dogs to veterinary specialists in the past and I know what you mean about the price! Like you, though, I always felt it was worth every penny.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

But did they test for Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency (EPI)? B-12 deficiency is present in most dogs with EPI.


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## WillyBilly (Jan 8, 2013)

Hmmmmmm... Maybe not. Is that diagnosed by a blood test and is that fixable?


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## WillyBilly (Jan 8, 2013)

Oops, I see where you said digestive enzymes is the remedy. I'll ask the vet. 


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## WillyBilly (Jan 8, 2013)

I just googled EPI testing. It's a TLI test. He had that test along with the initial PLI Test. The TLI/PLI; Cobalamin (B-12); and Folate tests were done at the same time by Texas A&M, a speciality service of that Medical Facility. 


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