# Poodle Breeding 101



## Fluffyspoos

As far as color goes, it seems breeders will focus on the genres of colors, (blacks/silvers/creams/blues) or (reds/apricots) or (browns/blacks) ects. I wouldn't put a breeder off if they had a large variety of color, as long as they weren't mixing the taboos like brown to cream/apricot/red.

How many litters should a dam produce a year? I wouldn't want to see a dam produce more than three litters in her _lifetime_, much less yearly.

On breeders with multiple sizes, I wouldn't be put off by this, as long as each size is still in the breed standard, are health tested, shown, and aren't mixed.

Age of breeding: older than two and tested

*"What should you expect from a breeder if you call to advise of a health issue in a purchased puppy?"* If I had a dog that developed a genetic disease, I would expect the breeder to check the rest of the litter and reconsider breeding the dam/sire and any offspring. (I was considering a toy breeder for a future dog, but found out they had done a repeat breeding of a pair that they KNOW had produced luxating patella. Needless to say, I didn't email back.) Also, I would expect the breeder to go with the best of what their contract covers, depending on the health issue.

Re: Rehoming, I wouldn't put a breeder off for rehoming dogs they've bred, it proves that they care for the dogs they've placed. This shouldn't be something they do often however. If anything, I think a warning sign in this is a breeder _not _doing anything if the dog is in a bad situation.

Sorry my answers were scattered, but that's just my opinions!


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## 2719

Here are my answers to your questions.




Rowan said:


> Note: we'll have a disclaimer that all breeders responses are their _opinions _and their opinions only. No personal attacks or specific mentioning of other breeders.
> 
> 1) Do most breeders focus on one size poodle? Is it a red flag when one breeds all three sizes? (Ie., is it better to focus on and perfect one element?)
> 
> Only a red flag when proper structure and health testing is not adhered to. I know of breeders who started out breeding Standards and then found out they loved the minis too and wanted to add them to their program.
> 
> 
> 2) Do most breeders focus on one color poodle? Is it a red flag when one produces multiple colors? (Ie., is it better to focus on and perfect one element?)
> 
> I don't know about MOST breeders but as a relatively new breeder I am concentrating on Blacks and Browns. I agree with Fluffy that breeders should not breed controversial colours. One of my girls does carry cream and I am not adverse to breeding for a cream but currently am not fixated on colours as much as health.
> 
> 3) At what age is it acceptable to breed a dam/sire? I read somewhere that no poodle should be bred before the age of 2 (health issues manifesting and maturity of the pup).
> 
> This was just discussed on the Poodle Club of Canada Facebook page.
> I waited until two years but 18 mos is acceptable...if all health testing has been completed. Many agreed that the younger the dog the easier the whelp.
> 
> 4)
> 
> How many litters will the average dam produce a year? It would seem important for dams to rest in between litters meaning they're not bred every heat cycle.
> 
> Generally Dams come into season twice a year. I think that breeding back to back is not in the poodles best interest.
> 
> 5) What are the most important questions to ask a breeder when considering a puppy?
> 
> I like people that ask about health testing and temperment. Can I see the health test results? How many litters the breeder has a year. The set up of their breeding establishment. My puppies are born in our spare "Puppy Room" across the hall from our bedroom. As soon as they are mobile I move them to the living room or in nice weather outside.
> I think people should look for puppies that have been exposed to a large variety of situations, noises, animals, people. A potential puppy buyer should ask how the puppy is raised.
> 
> 6) As a breeder, what questions do you ask a potential buyer when selling a puppy? (On that note: What questions should we, as buyers, _expect _a responsible breeder to ask?)
> 
> What do you know about the poodle breed?
> Do you live in a house? Is it fenced?
> Do you have a vet? Do you know the amount of grooming involved?
> Describe the daily situation a puppy...and then full grown poodle will have at your house.
> Do you have children?
> Have you ever had a dog that you could no longer care for? Why? What happened with it.
> etc. etc.
> 
> 7) In your experience, what are some red flags (ie., _this might be a puppy mill / BYB* if..._)?
> 
> Lots of litters. No mention of health testing...or mentioned but no test results available. I am leary of breeders that have both sire and dam on site...I know many do...but I think most BYB stay breeding within their own kennel because they could not find legitimate studs from other poodle breeders.
> 
> Also...I am no smooth talker...I tell it like it is..BYB can be great sales people.
> 
> 8) What should you expect from a breeder if you call to advise of a health issue in a purchased puppy? (For example, a male pup that's cryptorchid or a pup with luxating patellas, etc.)?
> 
> I definitely want to hear about any and all health issues...and I sometimes wish that puppy purchasers would contact me first (except for emergencies)..I think that I can include a lot of breeders in the statement that we know our breed. What might be deemed a health catastrophe and a expensive trip to the vet just might be something that we can help with and advise the puppy owner. (For example...ear problems)
> 
> I tell all my puppy purchasers that I want to hear about the puppies throughout their life. It is important to me and the line I am trying to establish that I know the good, and the bad.
> 
> Diligent health testing is great but health issues can still happen and I think the breeder should take each health issue on its own merit as it arises. I don't think this is a question that can be answered with an "I always do ...."
> 
> 9) In the above, what steps if any will a breeder take and why?
> 
> See above
> 
> 10) Under what circumstances will a breeder rehome an adult dog? Is this ever a problem or under what circumstances should it be considered a warning sign (ie., if a breeder rehomes multiple dogs in a year)?
> 
> Life circumstances change for puppy purchasers. Deaths, divorce, financial down turn, allergies, moves etc. I think if the Breeder is contacted they should be more than willing to take the poodle back and find it another home.
> 
> The only warning sign, to me, would be that people were returning the poodles repeatedly to the breeder because of poor temperment even after the poodle has attended award based obedience training.
> THANK YOU!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

Rowan said:


> This thread was 'inspired' by a few other threads. I'll state up front that I know next to nothing about the world of breeding (or showing), but I applaud all the responsible breeders out there who do their part to maintain the integrity of the breed!
> 
> To help those of us who are 'clueless' (for lack of a better word) gain a better understanding of breeding, would some of the breeders mind answering the following? (This list isn't all inclusive so please please feel free to add questions you feel are pertinent to helping one understand what goes into breeding.)
> 
> Note: we'll have a disclaimer that all breeders responses are their _opinions _and their opinions only. No personal attacks or specific mentioning of other breeders. Let's stick to hypothetical examples, please. I truly hope to gain some insight into the realm of breeding and it's not my intent to start a flame war here!
> 
> 1) Do most breeders focus on one size poodle? Is it a red flag when one breeds all three sizes? (Ie., is it better to focus on and perfect one element?)
> 
> 2) Do most breeders focus on one color poodle? Is it a red flag when one produces multiple colors? (Ie., is it better to focus on and perfect one element?)
> 
> 3) At what age is it acceptable to breed a dam/sire? I read somewhere that no poodle should be bred before the age of 2 (health issues manifesting and maturity of the pup).
> 
> 4) How many litters will the average dam produce a year? It would seem important for dams to rest in between litters meaning they're not bred every heat cycle.
> 
> 5) What are the most important questions to ask a breeder when considering a puppy?
> 
> 6) As a breeder, what questions do you ask a potential buyer when selling a puppy? (On that note: What questions should we, as buyers, _expect _a responsible breeder to ask?)
> 
> 7) In your experience, what are some red flags (ie., _this might be a puppy mill / BYB* if..._)?
> 
> 8) What should you expect from a breeder if you call to advise of a health issue in a purchased puppy? (For example, a male pup that's cryptorchid or a pup with luxating patellas, etc.)?
> 
> 9) In the above, what steps if any will a breeder take and why?
> 
> 10) Under what circumstances will a breeder rehome an adult dog? Is this ever a problem or under what circumstances should it be considered a warning sign (ie., if a breeder rehomes multiple dogs in a year)?
> 
> *irresponsible (commercial) breeder / situation to avoid
> 
> THANK YOU!
> 
> ETA: If this isn't the appropriate forum for this topic, my apologies (and please shift accordingly)!


It is my opinion:

1) It is quite alright to see someone breeding all three sizes if they are doing things correctly...appropriate testing for each variety, breeding at the appropriate ages for each variety...etc.

2) It is a red flag in my eyes when you see a breeder breeding every colour, focusing mainly on more trendy colours like red, brown, partis, phantoms, in amongst black litters, white litters, silver litters....It makes me question what this is about. Improving each colour, or paying the bills.

3) Dogs should not be bred until at least two years of age for a number of reasons. A dog's body is not fully developed until then and it seems wrong to impregnate an immature bitch, having her put her energies into developing puppies rather than into her own growth. Final OFA certification on hips cannot be done until two years of age. Each year you wait gives you an opportunity to see if anything crops up in a line you are looking at including in your program, and it gives you time to assure the dog/dogs you are looking at breeding are healthy themselves and are maturing into a dog whose type you like.

4) A bitch usually can produce two litters a year. There are lots of different schools of though on how often you can breed, to what age, back to back breedings...My personal feeling is one litter per year after two years of age, with one back to back breeding if the bitch is young, healthy and your vet gives their blessing, having a full working knowledge of the dog in question.

There are some breeders who will breed a bitch three or four times, all back to back heats, then spay, claiming it is healthier to get the breeding aspect over with and removing her uterus before there is a risk it could become a problem. Some of these breeders also begin breeding at nine months of age. This method does not sit well with me at all, but my way of doing things likely does not sit well with them.

5) If I choose to, may I visit?

Do you health test?

May I see documentation of health testing?

What tests do you do?

Do you insist of getting any of your progeny back in the event of a lifestyle change, death in the family, etc.?

How do you socialize your puppies?

May I meet/get photos of BOTH parents. What can you tell me about their dispositions?

6) I ask: Will you follow the Dr. Jean Dodds protocol for vaccines?
Do you have a fenced yard?
Are you fully aware of the grooming requirements for a Poodle? Does this bother you?
Can you work out your holidays to be home with the puppy for its first two weeks in your home, to learn the lay of the land, what kind of schedule you have and bond with you?
If someone is not home full time, can you go home at lunch? Will you get someone to come in once or twice a day to play with the puppy and feed it?
What do you plan to feed your puppy?
Do you have kids? What ages?

7) Red flags...more than two to four litters a year
Little or no health testing
Not being encouraged, if geographically logical, to visit
Unkempt dogs
Smelly premises
Dirty home or kennel
Someone you know you will not be comfortable having a relationship with
No knowledge of the backgrounds of the parents

8) What to expect depends a lot on what your contract covers. I have never seen a guarantee of two descended testicles, but some breeders might be willing to help pay the difference between a simple neuter and a more complicated one. If patellas required surgery, is that in the contract? If not, some breeders might be willing to help with the cost of surgery. Most guarantees are for specific things and for a specific amount of time. Expect your breeder to at least follow their own contract to the letter, and anything over and above that is a blessing and out of the goodness of the breeder's heart.

9) Some breeders will insist on getting the afflicted dog back. Most will either reimburse you the purchase price or replace the dog. Most going back to breeders in a lot of situations will be euthanised. Some breeders will offer to let you keep the dog, knowing you love it, and will still agree to replace the dog now, or at a later date.

10) Our breeding dogs are not now nor will they ever be rehomed after they have been retired. They are spayed/neutered and continue to live in the home they are accustomed to and with the family they love. I think it is despicable to see adult dog after adult dog offered for sale when they have been retired, unless of course they have been kennel dogs. THEN, in my opinion, they are getting an opportunity at the good life. In a home, with a family, loved unconditionally.

These are all just my opinions on each of these matters.

And regarding commercial breeders I am not sure exactly what your question is...


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## Rowan

Thank you to everyone who responded. 

ArreauStandardPoodle:
Regarding question #7:


> 7) In your experience, what are some red flags (ie., this might be a puppy mill / BYB* if...)?


I'm wondering if there are warning signs that you as a breeder and anyone as a purchaser should look for that might indicate a commercial breeder/BYB/puppy mill. I'm interested in both the breeder and buyer perspective because I'm sure you guys consider this when looking for studs, allowing someone to use your studs, etc. ie., It's just as important a consideration for a breeder as it is for a buyer. 

I'm thinking the signs would include refusing to let a buyer visit the premises and insisting on meeting off-site, a large number of dogs and/or litters available, etc. (As Truelovepoodles said.)

Hope that helps. If not, let me know and I'll try and elaborate.

Thanks again!


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## zyrcona

What is acceptable in terms of when and how often dogs can be bred also varies slightly depending on what country you are in and the breed registry there.

In the UK, dogs can be hip scored any time after they are one year old. Thus studs are often put with their first bitch at one year old after the testing has been done. The Kennel Club forbids bitches under two to be bred from, so bitches will have their first litters after two years old. The Kennel Club will also not register more than four litters per bitch. It is safest for the bitch to be spayed when her breeding career is finished to prevent pyometra.


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## Olie

*Opinions Only *

I think there is some really great information provided by all posts above. 

I think 3 litters in a lifetime would be all breeders need to do and I would HOPE they have kept a pup or two to continue their lines. 

Litters SHOULD BE REGISTERED - you would be surprised that some breeders try to squeak a litter out unnoticed.....

Questions for a breeder, ask for the documentation. Not all breeders post the information as they should, does not always mean they were not tested..so people need to ASK. 

To tell if a breeder is pushing pups, find out what they have kept from their litters. To me a red flag is a breeder that breeds and breeds and breeds again and does not keep ONE dog. If you are attempting to better your line.....this to me is not the way (of many way though) more about $$$

Get a good contract! Read and ask questions.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

You know...there was a time, not so long ago, when I did not think it was important to post dog's testing on the OFA site. As a matter of fact, if you go back and look at some very old threads, you will likely see me muttering "that as long as the breeder has done the testing and will show you documentation, it does not need to be posted. It costs extra money to post them you know". So, here we are with two girls whose testing has recently been completed. And posted. And CHIC numbers. And I now understand the importance of posting, because while we are researching future stud dogs and possible additions to our program, it makes our lives so much easier when if it is all in one spot, no question. So people's ideals can and do change. Yes, I sold semen from a boy who was not two. No pregnancy resulted. Would I do it again? NEVER! Not in a million years. Would I ever use a stud under two now? NEVER! Not in a million years! So, people's thoughts and processes change over time. My opinion of back to back breedings has changed too. I used to be dead against it. Now, my opinion is different, if it is only done once, while the bitch is young and if she is regularly seen by a vet. So...things change over time.


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## Rowan

*Maintaining contact...*

I can't edit my original post so will throw out another 2-part question here (I think I'm on #11 (???) :

*11) Breeders: How many of your customers maintain contact with you? Do you ask them to do so upon purchase?

Puppy buyers: Do you maintain contact with your breeder? If so, does s/he respond to you? *

As a poodle owner and _not _a breeder, I keep in regular contact with my breeder (and she's now retired). I send her pictures and notes about the boys on a regular basis, and she always responds with a thank you and an update of her own. I'm in love with my first poodle's father and like to keep tabs on him--he's also retired. 

I even reached out to my rescue pup's breeder and am now in contact with her. Thankfully she and my breeder are friends so I can update them both at the same time! 

ETA: And one more....

*12) As someone who was fortunate enough to adopt a fantastic retired stud dog, how often do breeders retire adult dogs? Are they re-homed to carefully screened candidates or do most breeders keep them as "pets"? I'm figuring this depends on how many dogs a breeder has at any given time and can manage once retired, etc. *I'm hoping for some elaboration here, from the question posed in original post.**


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## Tux

I probably speak with Diane Welsh (Raven) about once a year, she is very busy. Speak with Ora Marcus (Tux) far more often. She only has one litter a year, works very hard at keeping in touch with all her clients and her puppies. 
I speak with Mildred (Cookie) probably at least twice a month by phone and by email.

I have never been 'brushed off', or rebuffed, by any of them. I find if you are polite and kind it goes a long way.


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## 2719

I love to hear from people that have purchased puppies. I don't request it per se, when I send out registrations I just attach a note that states I would love to hear about the puppies.


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## Tux

That is the same way I am with my baby parrots. If the new owners want to stay in touch, I am always pleased to hear of their progress, it is fun hearing what the baby parrot has learned to say. It is good new owners ask questions about diet, etc etc.
I give a very large care package with each baby, including a book on whatever breed of parrot the baby is, also a weely sample diet sheet, enough food for about a month, so they will know what to purchase. 

I received very detailed instructions/guidance with both Raven and Tux. Certainly could not find any fault with either breeder for that. I called quite a few times asking questions with Raven as he was my first Standard Poodle, I wanted to do everything exactly right, he was also my first large dog. I had always had small dogs prior to Raven, like Cookie.

I got a whole write up on Tux from Ora Marcus, very detailed, very specific. I have followed them to a "T". I sure don't pretend to have the knowledge of poodles that either breeder has. I can no longer get the food she recommended, rather limited here in Southern NB without driving for hours. I am going to try a high end brand I can get locally.


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## Yaddaluvpoodles

*Off Topic*

Wow. What a thread. 

Lots of finger pointing, lots of folks doing things the wrong way.. because it doesn't agree with someone else's concept of right.

This is the last posting I will make on this thread:

It is entitled Poodle Breeding 101 and my understanding is that it was started to help give pet owners insight into breeding.

Many, many books have been written about poodle breeding. I don't think that it's possible to cover even a brief introduction to one small area of breeding, breeding philosophies an concepts and the facts and science behind them in a short discussion.

Breeders do learn and grow. Ideas and concepts may change, what was an absolute no-no at one stage may become something to be considered.. once an additional learning has taken place.

It's easy to make blanket statements, so and so should have done such an such. So and so is a dirty rat because they did such and such. When that happens there is no learning going on at all. All it is a finger pointing match and there are no winners and it doesn't have any benefit to poodles AND quite honestly, often those opinions are just that. Opinions, not based on any facts at all.

How many times should a bitch be bred.. and why, pros and cons to breeding more/less? What's really healthy, what's not (and I don't mean the propaganda put out by the AR folks.. how many people here have actually looked into research studies that have been done, negative and positives for the bitch and offspring? or how many are just playing back rhetoric?)

How old should a bitch be when bred? Different philosophies on that one and.. who says that the opinion you currently have is right? I know that everyone here thinks they are right.. but obviously..we can't all be. Yup. Even me. So if someone has a different opinion, why not explore that opinion --if they are willing. Some of my opinions I actually keep to myself (yeah.. I know.. no one believes that LOL) because I've been so battered over them. So did being battered make me change my mind about them? Not a chance. People were so busy kicking the sh** out of me that they didn't bother to say... have you considered this an why or why not. 

Folks, if you disagree with someone, instead of labeling them as floaters and consigning them to the nearest toilet.. see if.. there is something to be learned.... I have a lot of aquaintainces whose breeding practices and management I disagree with 1000%. But that doesn't mean that as human beings they are "floaters".

Quite honestly, I feel darned sorry for Arreau. Speaking for myself, a breeder's nightmare is having a health issue in one of my pups. Although Raven is out of one of Arreau's bitches, he is not one of her pups. I can't imagine how it would feel to find out that the issue had been happening for several years, that other breeders were aware and that no one had the respect for me, for our poodles to tell me. Yes, I'm making assumptions here. They are based, quite simply on Tux's not being informed of PHR. I would expect that of any responsible breeder. Hearing about a health issue is nightmarish at best, but to be blindsided in a public forum .....(better then not knowing, but how would each one of you be feeling if you were walking in her shoes right now?) Breeder's can't deal with issues if they don't know they exist. 

Ok, I derailed the conversation. Sorry. I don't like nastiness. Each of these breeding questions has several answers. It depends on the individual breeder, the individual poodle and lots of other factors come into play as well. Answering these questions is hard individually because it takes them out of context.

Hope you all have a bit more to think about and.. I'm outta here for the day. I hope each and everyone of you has a wonderful day an great times with your poodles today!


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## Fond of Poodles

I'm not going to bash Ora here, nor am I only defending Arreau. I'm saying that breeding is a "closed club". What you hear from Ora, or from most breeders is not the whole truth. If you were interested in breeding dogs, you would be privy to more information from breeders, because most of them do genuinely want to improve the breed. That being said, they also don't want to destroy their own reputations and forums such as this - that go about systematically revealing every flaw in a breeders program do just that. People who have little knowledge of poodle pedigrees read the forums and assume based on postings (such as those that Cherie has had about her lines and Ora has had about hers) that these breeders are unethical and "hiding" something. Sure they might be...but my point is they are not alone, breeding dogs with health issues is rampant. There is frozen sperm being used still today from dogs with multiple health concerns but because they have produced "beautiful" dogs they are still being used.

In saying that people don't want to know...I guess that would read better as people who buy a pet poodle have no idea what is in their dogs lines. Dogs are offered with a guarantee so people feel secure in buying a dog, but really all the guarantee is giving the buyer is the chance to have another dog should something crop up. That doesn't stop the heartbreak of having beloved pet fall prey to a genetic disease.

As to Facebook, both parties had threads that got quite heated with lots of back and forth indirect responses and I feel quite sure that neither one of them feels great about it. Emotions have a way of taking the upper hand when one feels backed into a corner.

From what I've seen recently Cherie can barely post anything without someone jumping on her and for the record I don't know her at all. Never met her and I'm a black poodle person and have no knowledge of reds at all.

I just wish that we could put all the strife behind us and make this a place that will provide education without the "digs". It gets tiresome to read.

I'm not trying to raise hell or be a trouble maker, I'm just trying to get a point across, hopefully successfully. 

Edited to add: I'm not inferring that anyone is hiding anything here or that all breeders hide things - just that there might not always be full disclosure for fear of their lines being judged solely on health issues in the pedigree. Sorry if it sounded that way,


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## tintlet

OK, I'll bite..here are some answers

1) Do most breeders focus on one size poodle? Is it a red flag when one breeds all three sizes? (Ie., is it better to focus on and perfect one element?) 
**** I think that most do one variety, but its is not uncommon to see others. especially when it's toys and minis. When you have big differences in sizes, some injuries can occur.


2) Do most breeders focus on one color poodle? Is it a red flag when one produces multiple colors? (Ie., is it better to focus on and perfect one element?)
**** No..many colors are interbred

3) At what age is it acceptable to breed a dam/sire? I read somewhere that no poodle should be bred before the age of 2 (health issues manifesting and maturity of the pup).
**** Depends on the variety and maturity of the female. It is not uncommon to breed toys or minis under 2. Most standards need to grow and mature, plus may need to wait for early onset of health issues. If there might be health issues, its better to wait until the dog is 4-5

4) How many litters will the average dam produce a year? It would seem important for dams to rest in between litters meaning they're not bred every heat cycle.
**** I was taught to breed 2 cycles, then rest one. Now i would not breed back to back unless the bitch had a very small litter. probably spay right after that. There is really no "rule" as it depends on the health of the female. Personally, I think 4 litters is plenty for a standard.

5) What are the most important questions to ask a breeder when considering a puppy?
**** Ask the questions that are important to YOU

6) As a breeder, what questions do you ask a potential buyer when selling a puppy? (On that note: What questions should we, as buyers, _expect _a responsible breeder to ask?)
**** I always ask " what is the use intended". This tells me what the buyer is looking for. Then can see if there is a suitable puppy/adult. Also ask for 2-3 references, maybe pics of home, family, other pets

7) In your experience, what are some red flags (ie., _this might be a puppy mill / BYB* if..._)?
**** do they have lots of litters bred just for sales, all the Sires are on site

8) What should you expect from a breeder if you call to advise of a health issue in a purchased puppy? (For example, a male pup that's cryptorchid or a pup with luxating patellas, etc.)? 
**** depends on your contract. The buyer has to take some responsibility that dogs are not perfect. Breeder should be able to advise buyers on the best way to handle to problem. 

9) In the above, what steps if any will a breeder take and why?
****again, depends on the contract. I do think many pet buyers think breeds can guarantee everything. We can not..even DNA tests can be wrong.

10) Under what circumstances will a breeder rehome an adult dog? Is this ever a problem or under what circumstances should it be considered a warning sign (ie., if a breeder rehomes multiple dogs in a year)? 
**** I will rehome retired dogs, or those that we grow out and don't use in our program. I think the dogs deserve a home with only 1-2 dogs. There are heart dogs that will never leave. it's very easy to get overwhelmed with keeping too many dogs.

As far as reporting health issues, that is a slippery slope. I do pay to have most health testing listed on OFA. As a breeder of "color", I do want the world to know the status of our dogs. I take ALL the dogs for CERFS every year, But do not send them in every year. 
I am very proud of all the Tintlet poodles with CHIC numbers


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## Administrator

I have seen all your reported posts and will take time today to read through them and act accordingly. I think all of us should be embarrassed for what has transpired here.


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## plumcrazy

This thread is being reopened for comment. Please keep the discussion on topic and be aware that if posts are being reported for cause, the thread will be closed and moved again. 

Thank you for your cooperation.

Barb


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## bigredpoodle

And edited I am assuming .


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## bigredpoodle

As a Breeder I try to do one litter a year from each of my girls. Sometimes they have different ideas and as that/if happens more fences go up  
I do let people come here When it is convenient for me. Not for them sorry ...But I am busy ...
I breed only one color I am quite anal about it and one size... To me that is a flag. To breed multiple colors.. that is .. I like to see all health testing posted.. 
Depending on the bitch 3 to four litters is enough . But not saying I wont do 5..
So as you can see there are many things to be considered when you are breeding . A What does she produce and bring to the table..B How quickly does she return to healthy weight and agility? 
C What kind of a mother is she? 
Now on to the stud.
Way too many males are used way to much and can actually ruin a line of color. Health and otherwise. So be mindful to check and see how much offspring is sired by the male.. It is not all about the bitch ...I have repeated breeding three times cause they were so nice. But I KNEW The pedigree.....Breeders need many tools in their tool box. Not just PHR or OFA but pedigrees, especially networking with other breeders. There are some that burn all their bridges and cast stones at every other breeder. They will be out of business. You need the other breeders...So this is important as well ... Many things go onto a successful breeding program and these questions need to be asked when you are calling the breeder..I am always available to speak with , any concerns my baby buyers may have.. Whether it is my dog or another breeders dog. I have created a closed FB group for my puppy people to share . It is fabulous...WE are rowdy but fun


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## Rowan

THANK YOU for reopening the thread! I didn't have a chance to read *Tintlet's* comments and I'm very grateful!


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## plumcrazy

No problem, Rowen... If we can continue to interact in a positive way, this thread can have a lot of information for folks.

So far so good!

Barb


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## Countryboy

Well we're doin' good, Barb.  

Not so sure abt Rowan tho . . . she might be a little slow.  



Rowan said:


> I didn't have a chance to read *Tintlet's* comments and I'm very grateful!


HA!  I never miss anything that Tintlet posts.  heeheehee


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## Rowan

Countryboy said:


> Well we're doin' good, Barb.
> 
> Not so sure abt Rowan tho . . . she might be a little slow.
> 
> 
> 
> HA!  I never miss anything that Tintlet posts.  heeheehee


I couldn't see her post because you were standing in my way and taking a very LONG time to read it! 
Talk about slow...


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## Rowan

Not sure if this link was posted upthread, but it contains a lot of great questions to ask a breeder before buying a puppy:

http://www.akc.org/classified/pick_a_puppy.cfm


> Once you select a breeder, screen the breeder.
> 
> *Here are some questions to ask:*
> How long have you been breeding?
> Are you a member of an AKC Parent Club or any other dog-related club?
> Describe the breed’s characteristics?
> What is this breed’s temperament like?
> How big will the dog get?
> How much exercise does the dog need?
> Does this breed bark a lot?
> Does this breed shed?
> How often will the dog need to be groomed?
> What are the best training methods for this dog?
> How old will he be before he acts like an adult dog?
> Does this breed do well with children?
> Does this breed do well with other pets?
> Do you do health screenings prior to breeding a litter?
> Do you show your dogs at AKC events?
> 
> Your contact should be willing to answer all of your questions fully. He or she should also ask questions about you, your lifestyle, and your family. If a contact doesn’t respond to your inquiries, or doesn’t show any interest in the life the dog will lead after it leaves his or her premises, you may want to look elsewhere. A responsible breeder is committed to making a good match between prospective owners and the dogs in their care; that’s the kind of person you want on your side as you make the journey into dog ownership.


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## Cynthadia

My comments are directed only toward the question of the minimum age at which a dog or bitch should be bred. My experience is only with standards.

I had experience with successive generations of bloat in my line of dogs. Since there's no test for bloat, I didn't know what to other than wait it out. I didn't want to wait until this bitch was 8 years old to breed her, so I arbitrarily picked a number - age five. 

I figured that since typical onset of SA is 3-5 years, waiting until age 5 (and testing before breeding) would give me info. In the meantime, I got to see the health issues in her dam, granddam, sibs, etc. I kept on telling myself that "bad" information was as valuable as "good" information. I applied the same thinking to other health issues prevalent in the standard poodle.

As I waited, the health issues I feared came to pass. As I learned new information, I continued to re-evaluate my decision to breed my gorgeous champion bitch. As it turned out, I never had to make the decision to breed this bitch. She made the decision for me when she bloated and died at age 4.7 years.

I watched with envy as other breeders put their champion puppy dogs out for stud at nine months of age and then I watched years later as the unrevealed sins of the father were visited on the next generations. 

I probably won't ever breed another litter...but if I did, and knowing the health issues the breed faces, I would still take a wait and see posture...that is until the day there are genetic tests for the common diseases which plague the breed.


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## bigredpoodle

Cynthadia said:


> My comments are directed only toward the question of the minimum age at which a dog or bitch should be bred. My experience is only with standards.
> 
> I had experience with successive generations of bloat in my line of dogs. Since there's no test for bloat, I didn't know what to other than wait it out. I didn't want to wait until this bitch was 8 years old to breed her, so I arbitrarily picked a number - age five.
> 
> I figured that since typical onset of SA is 3-5 years, waiting until age 5 (and testing before breeding) would give me info. In the meantime, I got to see the health issues in her dam, granddam, sibs, etc. I kept on telling myself that "bad" information was as valuable as "good" information. I applied the same thinking to other health issues prevalent in the standard poodle.
> 
> As I waited, the health issues I feared came to pass. As I learned new information, I continued to re-evaluate my decision to breed my gorgeous champion bitch. As it turned out, I never had to make the decision to breed this bitch. She made the decision for me when she bloated and died at age 4.7 years.
> 
> I watched with envy as other breeders put their champion puppy dogs out for stud at nine months of age and then I watched years later as the unrevealed sins of the father were visited on the next generations.
> 
> I probably won't ever breed another litter...but if I did, and knowing the health issues the breed faces, I would still take a wait and see posture...that is until the day there are genetic tests for the common diseases which plague the breed.


Wow so sorry that you had to experience this ...


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## Rowan

*Sorry for your loss*



Cynthadia said:


> ...
> As I waited, the health issues I feared came to pass. As I learned new information, I continued to re-evaluate my decision to breed my gorgeous champion bitch. As it turned out, I never had to make the decision to breed this bitch. *She made the decision for me when she bloated and died at age 4.7 years*....


I can't answer your question, but I just wanted to say how sorry I am for your loss. No death is easy, but I can only imagine how scary a bloat episode must be, especially one that ends in tragedy.


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## Bellplain

1) Do most breeders focus on one size poodle? Is it a red flag when one breeds all three sizes? (Ie., is it better to focus on and perfect one element?)

Most breeders focus on one size. It is not a red flag for a breeder to breed all three sizes if they have champions or are currently campaigning dogs in all three sizes. It is not better or worse to have more than one size.

2) Do most breeders focus on one color poodle? Is it a red flag when one produces multiple colors? (Ie., is it better to focus on and perfect one element?)

I think most breeders breed more than one color, because, for example, a black could produce blues, browns, or creams due to genetic makeup. It is not a red flag for a breeder to produce related colors, like browns and cafe-au-laits, or blacks and blues, or silvers and silver-beiges. It is not better or worse to focus on one color.


3) At what age is it acceptable to breed a dam/sire? I read somewhere that no poodle should be bred before the age of 2 (health issues manifesting and maturity of the pup).

The age should coincide with the completion of genetic testing. A standard should not be bred before OFA certified at 2 for an example.


4) How many litters will the average dam produce a year? It would seem important for dams to rest in between litters meaning they're not bred every heat cycle.

No more than one litter per year.

5) What are the most important questions to ask a breeder when considering a puppy?

This should be in a different thread about buying puppies.

6) As a breeder, what questions do you ask a potential buyer when selling a puppy? (On that note: What questions should we, as buyers, _expect _a responsible breeder to ask?)

I ask them about their former experiences with dog ownership, especially about their ownership of dogs who require grooming.

7) In your experience, what are some red flags (ie., _this 
might be a puppy mill / BYB* if..._)?

Again, a question for another thread about puppy buying.

8) What should you expect from a breeder if you call to advise of a health issue in a purchased puppy? (For example, a male pup that's cryptorchid or a pup with luxating patellas, etc.)? 

Again, a question for another thread about puppy buying.

9) In the above, what steps if any will a breeder take and why? 

This should be outlined in the contract between the breeder and the buyer. A crytorchid male could be sold as a pet as long as the buyer knows up front.

10) Under what circumstances will a breeder rehome an adult dog? Is this ever a problem or under what circumstances should it be considered a warning sign (ie., if a breeder rehomes multiple dogs in a year)? 

Breeders who have limited space or resources for taking care of geriatric dogs may re-home adult dogs once they are no longer needed in the breeding program. It is not a red flag to find homes for retired show/breeding dogs.


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## Rowan

Bellplain said:


> ...
> 5) What are the most important questions to ask a breeder when considering a puppy?
> 
> *This should be in a different thread about buying puppies.
> *
> ...
> 7) In your experience, what are some red flags (ie., _this
> might be a puppy mill / BYB* if..._)?
> 
> *Again, a question for another thread about puppy buying.
> *
> 8) What should you expect from a breeder if you call to advise of a health issue in a purchased puppy? (For example, a male pup that's cryptorchid or a pup with luxating patellas, etc.)?
> 
> *Again, a question for another thread about puppy buying.*


Hello! Thank you for answering some of the questions--your responses were most informative. I'm sorry you felt certain questions weren't relevant and for that reason, chose not to answer them. (Because we would all benefit from your perspective.)

I'm the author of this thread and I included the above highlighted questions for a _specific _reason--to educate people on _all _aspects of poodle breeding, which includes the puppy/breeder selection process. These particular questions help a potential buyer weed out the bad apples and avoid questionable breeders. 

I know when I searched for my very first poodle, I had no idea what constituted a responsible breeder, or what questions to ask or expect the breeder to ask of me in turn. So, my intent when opening this thread was to consolidate information on not only how different breeders conduct business, but help puppy buyers navigate what are often murky waters. Navigating murky waters includes knowing what specific questions to ask about potential puppies, how to identify an unscrupulous breeder, and what steps to take should your pup not be healthy. (Of most importance, knowing when to fold and walk away.) 

These questions are posed in countless threads on this forum. Anyway, it's a ''breeding for dummies" thread, as stated in the OP, and these are issues that should be considered when researching breeders.  So IMHO, these questions _should _be in _this _thread, and that's why I included them. Such information is vital to anyone screening breeders and pedigrees while searching for their dream poodle. 



> Posted by *Bellplain*:
> 10) Under what circumstances will a breeder rehome an adult dog? Is this ever a problem or under what circumstances should it be considered a warning sign (ie., if a breeder rehomes multiple dogs in a year)?
> 
> Breeders who have limited space or resources for taking care of geriatric dogs may re-home adult dogs once they are no longer needed in the breeding program. It is not a red flag to find homes for retired show/breeding dogs.


This question was based on a few comments by forum members who knew of breeders re-homing _multiple _dogs per year, to include breeding stock and older puppies, ie., a high turnover. Many wanted to know if this was the norm or considered standard practice. I doubt anyone would claim the re-homing of an occasional retired breeding dog or champion is unacceptable, but I'd personally steer clear of a breeder who was constantly "dumping his or her stock," for lack of a better phrase.


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## Bellplain

OH, Sorry Rowan and others,

I had a really long response to this post, but by the time I was through typing it I was no longer logged in for some reason.

Here goes for the second time.

I don't have a lot of experience buying puppies, as breeders who show usually give their dogs to show homes on very specific contractual terms, that is why I chose not to respond to 5, 7 and 8. But here goes;

The questions I would ask a breeder would be about their experience in showing dogs because that is what is most important to me. The biggest red flag to me is someone who breeds that does not show or have access to any champions as breeding stock.

8. What is done between the puppy buyer and the breeder in the event of a health problem should be all spelled out in the puppy contract and the puppy buyer should know what will happen before they leave the breeder's home with the puppy. In my case, I either refunded their money upon return of the puppy or replaced it with another puppy. A cryptorchid is probably a poor example, because in the case of a pet puppy, the buyer is not supposed to be breeding the dog anyway. 

10. Placing adults who are retired from breeding is something that all breeders do or they would "Breed themselves into a corner" which is what we call it when the breeder keeps something from every breeding until they run out of room or resources for breeding the next generation. It's not a red flag at all, but a sign that the breeder is working on improving their line which is what all good breeders are supposed to do. How many of these dogs they give away would depend on how many they had in the first place. A breeder that maintains 50 adult dogs may give away 5-8 each year. I myself only gave away 4 all together and I really did breed myself into a corner. I gave them away to my BFF and my sister.


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