# Vertical Pedigrees and Breeding



## Cdnjennga (Jul 30, 2009)

I came across this very intersting article about the importance of vertical pedigrees to breeding programs. It's a long read, but basically the summary points are:

- Most breeders focus on horizontal pedigrees when considering health (so they look at parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc.)
- Yet the article suggests that the vertical pedigree is actually of much more use (looking at siblings of the dog you're considering breeding, siblings of the dogs parents etc)

It uses 2 stud dogs to illustrate the point. It shows their horizontal/ historical pedigrees. Both look similar, with a background of normal hip OFA results. Yet when you look at the vertical/ current pedigrees, it's clear that one stud comes from a litter of dysplastic dogs and there's dysplastic dogs related to the parents. Therefore that stud dog suddenly looks a lot less attractive.

It suggests to me that breeders interested in improving health within their lines should be insisting that all pups they produce (for pets or breeding) be health tested so that they can have a full picture of health issues. Anyone know if this is being done by many breeders?

http://www.offa.org/hovanart.pdf


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## Emily-By (Jul 17, 2009)

(what do you do for a living? lol cause seriously I would hire you to find me a really great breeder! lol) 

I'm off to read the article now...


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## Cdnjennga (Jul 30, 2009)

Emily-By said:


> (what do you do for a living? lol cause seriously I would hire you to find me a really great breeder! lol)
> 
> I'm off to read the article now...


Hehe, I work in market research. But I just LOVE researching stuff online. Does it show? 

I'm just really trying to educate myself on this breed that's new to me. Everyone I have talked to has told me there's a lot of questionable poodle breeders out there, so I'm trying to find out what makes a good one (in my opinion) and then track down the breeder I want to deal with!


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## cybercat (Nov 15, 2008)

This is common in Germany and it is reported in the breed books. This is one reason why German bloodline dogs are so much better all around than american lines. In order to even bred over there dog must be tested and titled. To have a litter pups must be seen by breed master and tattooed before 8 weeks. This way pups can be tracked and no one can say pup is one dog and give false records.

Too much switching of dogs to do OFA happens here in the USA. I personally know back in the 90's some breeders that did it. Did not help too much when whole litter came out displastic. Unfortunatly there is not much we can do about it.


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## Cdnjennga (Jul 30, 2009)

cybercat said:


> Too much switching of dogs to do OFA happens here in the USA. I personally know back in the 90's some breeders that did it. Did not help too much when whole litter came out displastic. Unfortunatly there is not much we can do about it.


That's appalling! You mean people submit x-rays saying they're from dog A when really they're from dog B? Wow... I'm still very excited to get my poodle. But I have to say, the more I find out, the more I see why this breed is held up by some as an example of a breed that has been negatively affected by bad and overbreeding. I know there's many reputable breeders out there, but you really have to wade through a lot to get to them.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Cdnjennga said:


> That's appalling! You mean people submit x-rays saying they're from dog A when really they're from dog B? Wow... I'm still very excited to get my poodle. But I have to say, the more I find out, the more I see why this breed is held up by some as an example of a breed that has been negatively affected by bad and overbreeding. I know there's many reputable breeders out there, but you really have to wade through a lot to get to them.


This is why patience is the key


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## cybercat (Nov 15, 2008)

What is worse one was a top show and working breeder. It happens in all breeds too. The more money involved the more likly you will see it.


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

If you think Poodles and their health issues are bad, you should see GSD. They used to be my favorite breed, but I will never again own a GSD unless I personally bring one from Germany. What the German Shepherd club did to the dog is awful. I don't care how well tested they are and what's behind them, I am never buying one!!!


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## MoJoMama (Sep 17, 2009)

Cdnjennga said:


> I came across this very intersting article about the importance of vertical pedigrees to breeding programs. It's a long read, but basically the summary points are:
> 
> - Most breeders focus on horizontal pedigrees when considering health (so they look at parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc.)
> - Yet the article suggests that the vertical pedigree is actually of much more use (looking at siblings of the dog you're considering breeding, siblings of the dogs parents etc)
> ...


This "Vertical Pedigree" was SUCH an eye opener to me today!! In all of the available databases, I'm getting confused as to where I've been and which ones show what? lol

Suddenly, I was on a Phrdatabase, when it said that I wasn't logged in...So I logged in and it said my password was incorrect. That's when I realized that I was on phrdatabase.COM and not phrdatabase.ORG

Is this some sort of scheme? What's the difference in the sites? I printed out a specific vertical pedigree from each one and compared them and they were identical. And do you all find that this is the best database showing the different HEALTH (illness) issues, as well as OFA hip ratings? From what I've found there, I seem to get better info there than I do from www.poodlepedigree.com... Thoughts? Thanks again Cdnjennga for your research skillz


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