# Starlight poodles



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Welcome! Have you checked out this collection of resources?









🐩 Breeders Listed by Location 🐩 Plus Additional Resources 🐩


GEOGRAPHICAL BREEDERS LIST AND ADDITIONAL RESOURCES PLEASE READ THIS FIRST What this list is NOT: This list is not an endorsement of any breeder by Poodle Forum This list is not a list to just go buy from without doing more investigation This list is not comprehensive What this list IS: This...




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Lots of good info here, too:









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The pandemic has created some unique challenges for families adding a new puppy or adult dog to their home. On the one hand, we finally have the time to devote to a four legged family member; on the other hand, surging demand has led to adoption and sales scams, and social distancing...




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I’m not familiar with Starlight Poodles. I did find a website for “Starlight Puppies,” which appears to be a high-volume breeding facility. I would personally only proceed if (at minimum) I could meet the dam and sire, and verify their living conditions. From there I would inquire about health testing, as outlined by Rose at that first link I shared.

Have you read Ian Dunbar’s _Before and After Getting Your Puppy?_ Fabulous book and also available online for free. The “Before” section has some great general guidelines for finding a puppy, and I agree with Dr. Dunbar that puppies should be raised underfoot in the home, not outdoors or in separate facilities like livestock.


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## Cluski (4 mo ago)

Thank you- actually you are right about the name see


PeggyTheParti said:


> Welcome! Have you checked out this collection of resources?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Cluski (4 mo ago)

Thank you- it is starlike poodles. The photo just looked like another one on sandypoodles. Sandy poodle site said they keep them with the mother as long as possible but when I asked about the mother, they said they had just sold the mother and father. My heart aches for these little babies but I just don’t know whether to trust them. I appreciate any input. Thank you!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I don’t know anything about a Sandy Poodle site, nor can I find it with a google search, but I’d encourage you to read through those links I shared above. And then focus your energies on finding the right breeder, and the right dam and sire to start, rather than browsing adorable pics of puppies. 

The truth is: All puppies are cute! All puppies will tug at your heartstrings. But because toys have such small litters, it’s rare to find a toy puppy ready to go unless it’s from a puppy mill or backyard breeder. Toy puppies from an ethical breeder will generally require a waitlist.

Many of these glossy virtual storefronts, with puppy pics galore, hide the realities of how these sensitive, intelligent animals are being raised.

If you wish to proceed, insist upon an in-person meeting and that the dam and/or sire be onsite. “Just sold the mother and father” sounds extremely sketchy to me. How old are the puppies? I think your gut is telling you all you need to know here.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

I've found a Starlight Poodles on Facebook Starlight Standard Poodles that looks to have parti-colored Standards (the website linked on their page doesn't work) that is in New Jersey, and a Starlit Poodles Starlit Poodles that has solid colored Standard and Miniatures in Louisiana. Searching for Starlike Poodles and Sandy Poodles doesn't seem to bring up anything with those names.

I will say that if you are seeing the same pictures on different websites, then they most likely are scams.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Hi!

Direct links from you would be very helpful fo us to assess the site. What variety are you looking for?

---

I'll add some resources for you.
These are tips on researching and selecting quality, conscientious breeders. It can be helpful as a reminder even if you've recently gone thru this and especially if this is new to you or has been some years. Things have changed.

You can also read information directly from one of our members who is a very well-respected breeder here.

A quality breeder isn't location dependent. Their characteristics are the same everywhere.


*We often hear from folks that they just want a pet.*
What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that quality, conscientious breeders are _always _breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions but are flawless to us .
Outside of covid, these breeders will almost always welcome, even encourage, home visits to see the puppies and dam in person and see how they live.

*It's not unusual to think that there are possibly thousands of breeders to choose from.*
For quality, conscientious breeders, that number is more likely only in the hundreds in the US and Canada. A bottom-line difference is between those who are breeding primarily for profit and those who are breeding because they feel not only love for poodles but an obligation to the entire breed. Each of their, usually infrequent, breeding's are thoughtfully chosen to try to improve something in their lines and consequently the future of the breed.

*About reviews*,
a happy owner doesn't necessarily mean an informed owner. It's as likely they've just been lucky, so far. Review any negative comments carefully, if they're allowed to appear.

*Getting a puppy from a quality, conscientious breeder is something like insurance.*
Their investment in the health, welfare, and soundness of all the dogs in their care including the puppies they offer to new homes is part of the reason you're not likely to find a less than $2000 USD puppy from them.

*The saying is "pay the breeder or pay the vet".*
Price alone isn't the only thing to separate quality breeders from those less than. We've seen members quote as high, and even much higher pricing for pups from parents not health tested, not proven to meet breed standards, sold as purebred when only a DNA test could determine that since they may be sold without registration papers.

If I knew the risks and have dedicated poodle health savings of several thousand dollars or pet insurance, knew that basically that the breeder and I would part ways as soon as the pup was in my hands because they're very unlikely to stand behind their pup and me thru the pup's life, I might proceed with a breeder that doesn't meet my criteria.

But

_I also wouldn't pay quality breeder prices, and over, unless I'm getting all the quality breeder perks._


*Doing the PCA recommended health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder. *The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

*Look for and verify OFA/CHIC level testing at a minimum. The recommended testing by The Poodle Club of America is a mix of physical exams and, for each variety, there are also recommended DNA tests.*

The OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) registers testing from other countries as well as from the US.

There are additional poodle specific DNA panels for other testable genetic conditions.
Those are companion tests with the OFA/CHIC testing, not in place of.

CHIC Program | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)
Browse By Breed | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)


Toy Poodle recommended testing from the PCA with results listed on OFA

*Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)*
DNA-based test from an approved laboratory; results registered with OFA ➚
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Patellar Luxation*
OFA Evaluation, minimum age 1 year ➚
Miniature Poodle (just in case you expand your choices)

*Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)*
DNA-based test from an approved laboratory; results registered with OFA ➚
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Patellar Luxation*
OFA evaluation, minimum age 1 year ➚
*Hip Dysplasia* (One of the following)
OFA Evaluation ➚
PennHIP Evaluation
The PCA Foundation strongly recommends the DNA test for Miniature Poodle Dwarfism (Osteochondrodysplasia) to avoid breeding two carriers to each other and producing puppies affected with this deforming and crippling disorder. Research suggests that about 10 percent of Minis carry the mutation that causes this disease and that it is not limited to a few bloodlines.

The PRA test is a DNA test. The others are physical exams done by a qualified vet.
The DNA panels are nice and have helpful info but should not be accepted as the only health testing.

Standard Poodle

*Hip Dysplasia* (One of the following)
OFA Evaluation ➚
PennHIP Evaluation
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Health Elective* (One of the following)
OFA Thyroid evaluation from an approved laboratory ➚
OFA SA Evaluation from an approved dermapathologist ➚
Congenital Cardiac Exam ➚
Advanced Cardiac Exam ➚
Basic Cardiac Exam ➚
The PCA Foundation recommends all three electives for Standard Poodles and also strongly recommends the following DNA tests from an OFA listed lab to easily avoid breeding two mutation carriers to each other and producing affected puppies: DNA Test for Neonatal Encephalopathy with Seizures (NEwS) and DNA Test for vonWillebrand’s Disease (vWD)


*A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy*
doesn't have much to back it if the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety recommended by the Poodle Club of America. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

*Read thru any contracts that may be listed*.
If they rule out coverage for health conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?
For example, some breeders require that a specific food be bought and fed, often thru them, or the health warranty is curtailed or voided entirely.

*Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times*
and that wait is stretched well into 2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs, 9-5 paying job, and family, rather than keep a website updated.

*When you start making contacts*, let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.

*Color preferences* are understandable but keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies.
That beautiful color you fell for may not look the same in a few weeks, or months, or years. *Most poodle colors fade.

Gender preferences* will also limit your options.

*Temperament and personality* are lifelong traits.

*Be prepared to spend* in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

*Be prepared to travel* outside your preferred area.

*As a very general rule, websites to be leery of are*
those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience". A breeder using marketing terms like teacup, royal, giant don't really know poodles in relation to the breed standard. Pricing differently for size or color is also marketing.

*Be wary of a breeder who sells a puppy with full registration rights
(*breeding rights which allow the next generation of pups to be registered with the AKC) simply for the price of admission. A responsible breeder will not allow their reputation and their poodles to be bred by anyone, to any dog, without having a contractual say in the breeding and the pups. They will want to be involved.

*When looking at online sites, it's not just what you see, it's often what you don't see that's most important.*
Is the dam (and sire) also listed on the site, with full registry name and OFA testing?

*One additional caution, be very wary of those very cute short legged poodles.*
That's a genetic mutation which may carry serious life-altering disease.

An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. An online search for "Poodle Club of ___ (your city or state/province)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.


As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, this is my shortlist criteria.

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come.
_Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is well bred._


Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time 

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards physically and temperamentally and are sound by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.


To start a search for a breeder, use the official Poodle Clubs first. PF has a lot of resources to view also, and individual recommendations will be made too. Compare those to the information above for a good shot at a quality, conscientious breeder and a happy, healthy poodle.

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A note on "Champion bloodlines" or variations of...

The phrase "Championship _lines_" is nearly meaningless unless, as Phaz23 points out, the dam and sire are the champions, and their dams and sires...

"Championship" counts in the conformation ring, to prove that each generation is meeting the breed standard. It's not a given, an inherent trait that gets passed down.

----

A quality conscientious breeder doesn't have to be a PCA member to follow the Code of Ethics. I believe that every breeder should.
Code of Ethics - The Poodle Club of America


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Starlight puppies website is an example of several of the points made in my tips list.

They mention health but offer no specific testing, OFA and other DNA testing
They feature cute puppies but little or no info on the breeding pair, no registered names to search on OFA for testing
The health warranty is insufficient " 2-year warranty against_ any genetic defects that will cause a shortened life. " _They should be guaranteeing patellae and eyes (see post above).

They don't participate in any competitions with their dogs. This is to prove the soundness and health of their breeding dogs.
They cross breed.
They don't focus on one or two breeds but breed a variety of dogs which makes it difficult to have the necessary knowledge to maintain each breed per the official breed club standards.

They are USDA licensed which is NOT a selling point. It's an indicator of a volume/commercial breeder per USDA standards.
They're located in an area of the country where there are many volume/commercial breeders concentrated.
The number of similar names on the USDA list could indicate a "conglomerate" business.

There are a number of regions/states in the US that have high concentrations of puppy mills. Pay extra attention when you're searching for breeders in those areas. Use this site linked directly below
Puppy Mills by State - Bailing Out Benji

and search each site for USDA or state licensing references. Those are clues to pay attention to.

Search Options
Selection Sheet Workbook

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SheetCellValueActive License Report for WebD1701JONATHAN WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2365DAVID J WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2368HENRY WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2369JASON WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2372EDWIN WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2387DARREL WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2390LINDA WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2401FRANCIS WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2405LEVI WAGLER ABRAHAM GRABERActive License Report for WebD2407NATHAN WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2414LOREN WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2417Kevin WaglerActive License Report for WebD2422RICHARD WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2425Harvey WaglerActive License Report for WebD2434JAMES WAGLER BARBARA WAGLER IVAN WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2440JASON WAGLER RACHEL WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2457WALLACE WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2458Nicholas WaglerActive License Report for WebE2458WAGLER KENNELSActive License Report for WebD2460RUDY WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2466MELVIN WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2481PHILLIP WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2482PAUL WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2486LYDIA WAGLER DONNIE WAGLER IRENE WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2504NATHAN WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2508ERVIN WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2573WILMA WAGLER ADRIAN WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2590DARRELL WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2595LEVI WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2628RACHEL WAGLER JONATHAN WAGLER ELMER WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2673KEVIN WAGLER RACHEL WAGLERActive License Report for WebD2743Jason D WaglerActive License Report for WebD2760Wagler PuppiesActive License Report for WebD2778Timothy WaglerActive License Report for WebD2815BRANDON WAGLER
Find nextFind all
List-of-Active-Licensees-and-Registrants.xlsx (live.com)


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I just noticed that they list on the AKC Marketplace also. The AKC Marketplace DOES NOT VET breeders. The AKC is NOT recommending these breeders. 

The AKC accepts listings for a fee from breeders who are selling AKC registered puppies . That is all there is to it. The AKC does NOT register breeders, only dogs.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

TeamHellhound said:


> I've found a Starlight Poodles on Facebook Starlight Standard Poodles that looks to have parti-colored Standards (the website linked on their page doesn't work) that is in New Jersey, and a Starlit Poodles Starlit Poodles that has solid colored Standard and Miniatures in Louisiana. Searching for Starlike Poodles and Sandy Poodles doesn't seem to bring up anything with those names.
> 
> I will say that if you are seeing the same pictures on different websites, then they most likely are scams.


Starlit Poodles actually bred and raised Phoebe, a Donnchada girl. They are wonderful and have been amazingly responsive any time I’ve reached out after getting her. IMO, their name does not belong in this discussion.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Starla said:


> Starlit Poodles actually bred and raised Phoebe, a Donnchada girl. They are wonderful and have been amazingly responsive any time I’ve reached out after getting her. IMO, their name does not belong in this discussion.


The OP is searching for toy breeders, just didn't mention it in this thread. Starlit looks to be a wonderful breeder of standards and miniatures.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> I just noticed that they list on the AKC Marketplace also. The AKC Marketplace DOES NOT VET breeders. The AKC is NOT recommending these breeders.
> 
> The AKC accepts listings for a fee from breeders who are selling AKC registered puppies . That is all there is to it. The AKC does NOT register breeders, only dogs.


There are literally only two requirements to advertise on the AKC Marketplace: 1) The puppies offered for sale are AKC registered/registerable; and 2) the breeder's AKC privileges haven't been suspended. You will find pretty much everyone from commercial breeders to back yard breeders to national parent club members there. 

The Starlight Puppies website looks a lot like a scam site, to be honest.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

TeamHellhound said:


> The Starlight Puppies website looks a lot like a scam site, to be honest.


I think the definition of “scam” is getting increasingly blurry in this era of virtual storefronts. Are they going to steal your PayPal deposit and never deliver a puppy? I don’t see any reason to think that. But....does their website accurately represent the mental and physical living conditions of their breeding dogs and puppies? That’s where my spidey senses really start tingling.

Their About page boasts adequate ventilation for the puppies like that’s brag-worthy.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

The guarantee is disingenuous. "_All “Starlight Puppies” puppies are covered with a 2-year warranty against any genetic defects that will cause a shortened life._" There are plenty of genetically associated conditions - blindness, deafness, luxating patella, undescended testicles - that are both heartbreaking and expensive to manage, yet don't actually shorten the dog's life.


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