# "Red" standard puppy (looks apricot!!)



## ladybird (Jul 9, 2011)

Check out this advert on preloved...
Preloved | apricot standard poodle puppies for sale in Ipswich, Suffolk, UK

Everyone I've asked says that little dark puppy is not red, it's apricot. And yet the breeder is selling it as red for £200 extra! I messaged the seller about it and this was the response!

"I sent pics of puppy to the Kennel club before I sadvertised her as red and they confirmed her as red. The sire has now thrown red puppies as well as brown and why worry about it.... I've sold her to a family and they were not worried at all about her colour ...unlike you."

I checked their pedigree, and there are NO reds in it. It's mostly Canen dogs (blacks, whites, creams, browns). The sire is cream (some apricot further back on sire's side), dam is apricot (with lots of apricots on her father's side but NO reds in the pedigree)
And no, the sire has not "thrown red puppies" according to phr. Just cream, apricot, silver and black. He has no reds in his pedigree either...
so that puppy is registered as red with the Kennel Club. Won't that mess things up a bit!


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Pic #3? What IS that? Seriously?


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## ladybird (Jul 9, 2011)

tortoise said:


> Pic #3? What IS that? Seriously?


I think that's the "apricot" mother?


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

ladybird said:


> Everyone I've asked says that little dark puppy is not red, it's apricot. And yet the breeder is selling it as red for £200 extra! I messaged the seller about it and this was the response!


I wouldn't necessarily go by a photograph as the camera doesn't always reproduce reddish colours on dogs accurately. I can't see any links to the pedigree on that site, but from what you have said I suspect the puppy would be apricot and not red. To be red, a dog needs to have red in its ancestry. That was why Palmares and Shangri-La had to reintroduce red into standards from miniatures after the gene went missing during the Second World War (the Holocaust involved dogs as well as humans). Barring an extremely unlikely chance mutation, red won't appear spontaneously in dogs with no red in their line.

If you're specifically looking for a red puppy, I would personally avoid one from this mating, even if it were red, if its father has sired silver, as this suggests there are clearing genes in the ancestors and the puppy could lose its colour when it grows up. The only breeders I currently know of who have bred _bona fide_ reds in the UK are Cachucha and Itzapromise.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Umm... listed on PreLoved, comes with a 'family history certificate" ... doubt this pup will be having a major influence on future breeding lines, somehow.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

ladybird said:


> I think that's the "apricot" mother?


The clip is hideous, if I get to say that.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I don't think the "clip" was the photo shoot clip. Just looks like a poodle not recently groomed, that's all, and well, you can say it --- but what for? Don't see what that adds to the discussion.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I guess I would have to tell the breeder it mattered about $200 worth to me...


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Carley's Mom said:


> I guess I would have to tell the breeder it mattered about $200 worth to me...


My comment was directed at the member's critique of the dog's clip. I just did not see what that added --- I was not responding to any monetary issue regarding the pups.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

liljaker, I was not making a comment about your comment. I thought this post was about paying $200 more for a red and then it not being a red. I guess I need to go read it again.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Carley's Mom said:


> liljaker, I was not making a comment about your comment. I thought this post was about paying $200 more for a red and then it not being a red. I guess I need to go read it again.


Sorry, I was not addressing the cost of the pup, but rather a comment on the possible mom dog's clip. No worries.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I thought lady had purchased a "red" puppy and paid $200 more only to later realize she did not have a red... that is not the case. Sorry about my post, I will try to read the threads more carefully in the future.


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## ladybird (Jul 9, 2011)

the seller said the "red" puppy has been sold now, to a family who don't care about the colour (apparently!). well I would care seeing how it costs £200 extra


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

(Can't seem to edit my original post now) I think I was mistaken about the gene for red disappearing from standards after WWII -- I thought I had read something to that effect somewhere, but now I can't find it.

Red standards were definitely not around before Palmares and Shangri-La introduced the colour from miniatures though, so in order to be red a dog will need to have at least one ancestor who goes back to that breeding.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Zyrcona, you're actually right there WAS a line of red standard poodles before WW2 they originated in England but during the war they were lost and the red didn't come back into the standards until Shangrila and Palmares did their breedings.


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

Keithsomething said:


> Zyrcona, you're actually right there WAS a line of red standard poodles before WW2 they originated in England but during the war they were lost and the red didn't come back into the standards until Shangrila and Palmares did their breedings.


Do you have a link or a reference to something about it? I'm sure I read it somewhere around, but now I can't find it. I'm wondering now if perhaps I read it in an actual physical book (those funny old papery things from when I was a kid, lol).


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## Leooonie (May 30, 2009)

cachucha dogs are amazing. I know the groomer who trained the breeder to groom, and he is full of praise.

those pups look lie theyll clear to cream if the mother is anything to go by.
and form what iv found Canen dogs arent great quality either.

if you want a red, i suggest importing from mainland europe


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## BigRedDog (Mar 2, 2011)

Take a look at my albums, they really don't do the color justice. Red is Irish Setter red. Although my dog was lighter as a puppy, she has darkened into true Red and the color is gorgeous.
I was warned by the breeder that it's possible she lighten up, but the opposite has happened instead.
Apricot is very pretty too, but you shouldn't pay for red, unless you actually get red.


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