# Peeing in the Crate



## TrinaBoo (Apr 3, 2012)

Besides treats and praise for going potty outside and doing the right thing....how do you get a puppy to stop peeing in the crate. It could be for 1 hour or 4 and there is still a pee soaked puppy. There is not any improvement at all. Any ideas that I could put to use???


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

If you have excluded the possiblity of a urinary infection or other problem, if she is peeing in her crate she has never learned the basic principle of not fouling her own den, so the crate is going to be of little use for housetraining. I think I would set up a puppy pen, with her crate in it as a bed, and with a toileting area close by. She should quickly decide that the bed is more comfortable if it is dry. Some people suggest removing all the bedding from the crate, so there is no soft surface to absorb the urine - but that always seems a bit unfair on the pup to me! How old is your pup? It could be that he or she simply cannot hold it that long - toy pups have tiny bladders, and very little control.


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## pgr8dnlvr (Aug 7, 2011)

I obviously don't have any help for the OP, but just wanted to raise some thought and question on the "tiny bladder" theory. It just doesn't make sense to me that the whole "tiny bladder" issues factor in that much. I've discussed this with 2 vets and they seem to agree that it just doesn't make real sense. Yes, their bladder is small, but comparatively so is everything else in their system, which means the whole urinary tract would be producing a lot less urine than say, a mini or standard poodles would. It's not like we're asking a toys bladder to hold any more urine in comparison than any other breed.

It doesn't seem deniable that toys on average seem to have more difficulties in potty training, but REALLY why is that?

Is it that they do indeed have a functional deformity compared to larger dogs when it comes to "over production" of urine?

Is it that many small dog owners do not seem to aggressively chastise or be displeased with "accidents" since they are so easy to clean up?

Is it that the weather factors in and small dogs, particularly toys in very cold and wet weather, will do anything to avoid the discomfort of going outside?

Is it that somehow "carrying" a toy dog outside to pee hinders the connection in their brain of them needing to actually signal us when they need to go?

Dare I say, small dogs are not as "smart" as larger ones? (I know, this one seems absolutely ridiculous)

I don't know, but I am just getting so desperate myself. I keep reading over and over "toy dogs are difficult to potty train", yet it seems almost impossible to find answers, corrections, or reasoning on the same topic. I can't find "average" ages of toy dogs being housetrained, nor can I find any who has found a general "method" that seems more effective than another. If a 4 month old dog is still not potty trained, does that mean we are going to be dealing with accidents for life?!? When is the cut off for the point of no return?!? 

Rebecca


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## Marcoislandmom (Mar 15, 2012)

being very old and experienced with dogs if not poodles, I would share the following.

Dogs of all sizes that I have had are motivated by treats to perform. I suggest a stuff the mouth at every instance where the pup performs as desired. Pee Pads with spray on them (that encourage pee) are an excellent way to get the pup to do its business in a desired location.

Every 30 minutes without fail, provide a drink for the pup (if the pup in not interested in drinking water at that time, try some chicken broth). place the pup on the scented pee pad and keep it there. Once the pup pees, shove a piece of cut up chicken frank into its mouth and praise the puppy. Keep doing this and your pup will get the idea that making on the pee pad is rewarded. 

Overnight, keep the pup penned as suggested above, providing pee pads. Once the pee pad concept is accepted, you can carry the pee pads outside and do the same routine. 

Puppies don't have accidents, people do by not reading the signals the puppy is sending. By placing on the pee pad every 30 minutes, you should start to catch the pup. 

Good luck. This has worked for me with the most stubborn pups I have had. Just be consistent.


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## pgr8dnlvr (Aug 7, 2011)

Out of curiousity, what is your definition of a "stubborn pup"?

How long on average, did it take you to completely housebreak poodles, using this method?

At what point do you know it is safe to stretch to more than 1/2 between each pee break?

Did you have a job or do any sort of work while you were housebreaking your pups? 

I worry about how many times in the day I'll have the time to COMPLETELY devote to only watching the poodle. I would guess all together perhaps two hours of direct interaction time, (split up of coarse), from myself. Hubby always holds her on the couch while napping/sleeping for about an hour to hour and a half after school, and perhaps my daughter would do two 15 minute shifts. If the TV is on, her attention tends to divert though and hubby doesn't believe in turning off the TV.  How does one make sure the dog isn't spending TOO MUCH time in the pen?

I do work out of the home and can easily see to her quickly and check on her every 1/2 hour, but certainly can't stop everything to REALLY watch her hours on end. I know many have housetrained toy poodles even with working out of home, so how do THEY do it?!?

Thanks so much!

Rebecca


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## Marcoislandmom (Mar 15, 2012)

Rebecca, after a week of every 30 minutes with a treat for performance, your pup should get the idea. So, you have a pup and want it trained ... then take the time, now, to do it thoroughly. Pups can train well however your pup doesn't seem to have a clean instinct (not making where it sleeps). I forgot to ask how big the crate is that you keep the pup in? Too big a crate also provides more opportunity to pee and poop. The crate should not be any bigger than what is needed for the pup at its current age to lie down or tightly turn around. If the crate is bigger, then divide it using a piece of cardboard cut to the correct size and tied into place. Remember to crate between every pee pad trip. Remember for reward for performance. As I said, after a week of very diligent actions, you should begin to see the pup perform on the pads. 

Stubborn is defined as a dog whose will is stronger than chicken franks. They are rare.

Re: Those who train while working outside the house ... they have pups that have a clean instinct, a crate the appropriate size, and trips home mid-day to allow the pup to relieve itself. Hope this helps.


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## sarahmurphy (Mar 22, 2012)

our poodle is a standard, and I work from home full time, while my husband works from home a few days a week, and we have a college student and a teenager. - that's a lot of people to do door duty... 

we were down to one accident daily - between 9-9:30 pm, when my son was headed to bed, I was at the grocery store - or somewhere else and had left the dog with the men, and both men were on phone calls or otherwise occupied. The puppy would go up to the men, who would pet him, then the puppy would go around the desk and pee on the floor... He was asking to go out - not for a treat or love! 

As soon as we figured out there was one specific "Accident" time of day, we set an alarm and took the puppy OUT AT 9! Voila! No more accidents! 

It is easy to lose track of time when you work from home, and setting a timer to go off every hour and hauling the puppy outside and staying there till he's done his business, then giving treats and coming in the house is pretty effective. You may have to keep a log - pee on the even hours, poo every 4, etc, but once you get yourself trained, you are likely finished with the accidents...

You may also have a crate that you think is a comfortable size, and your pup thinks is big enough to be an en suite...

Working from home and long phone calls are a great opportunity to play fetch in the house - which tires the pup, then he sleeps, and as soon as he wakes up, he'll have to pee - lots of play makes a schedule easier to set up - because you know when the pup is sleeping, and you know when he needs to pee/poo.... Our pup self feeds - if you are having difficulty potty training, take up the food and put it down at specific times and put him OUT within 15 mins of food/water!
good luck!
sarah


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## TrinaBoo (Apr 3, 2012)

What would have caused the puppy to not have learned to not go potty in her den?

12 wk standard puppy*


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## sarahmurphy (Mar 22, 2012)

TrinaBoo said:


> What would have caused the puppy to not have learned to not go potty in her den?
> 
> 12 wk standard puppy*


Trina, it does not matter what *caused* it - it only matters that it get cured... it's a bit of a chicken and egg question, I think. 

my guess is that the crate is big enough for it to be en suite for the pup... block off about all the space that's not needed to turn around tightly and to just lie down and see what happens with that - or get a much smaller crate till she grows into the one you have, or is fully trained. 

A puppy can hold it for as many hours as they are months old, I was told - so a 3 month old puppy should be outside at least every 3 hours. I think our boy was a bit behind this "guide", as he was doing the stiff leg walk and the wee wee dance about every 2 hours at 4 months... 

I've also re-read your post and I wonder if you are there when the puppy is crated or if she is maybe having a case of stress incontinence if she is being crated then left alone. do you crate the puppy when you are in the room with her, or just when you leave? If she associates the crate with being abandoned, that's pretty stressful.

I'm probably going to come off as quite insensitive here, but if you can't find 2 hours a day, in 10-15 minute increments, (that's 8-10 trips outside daily) to devote your full attention to your puppy, you might want to reconsider the decision to have a puppy and look for an older, already trained dog. I'm only a few months further along in the journey than you, but 12 weeks was much easier than 6 months... Most breeders will take back a puppy, and most will help you find an older, more suitable dog for your family and lifestyle. I'm not saying this is the course of action you should take, but if this 12 week old puppy situation is overwhelming for you, the next 12 years might be hell in your home... Crate training, house training - these are just the beginning of the training required to ensure that you and your dog have many mutually rewarding years together. Many people do not think through the commitment, but there is a large, supportive community of breeders, trainers, groomers and owners who can guide you in your choice of how you live that commitment with your dog. There is no shame in asking for guidance, ever. 

sarah


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## TrinaBoo (Apr 3, 2012)

Thank you but I am at home all the time and do take the puppy out every 10 - 15 minutes and do feed at 9 am and at 8 pm....at times like when I am cooking dinner or sleeping she is in the crate with me in the kitchen and does not cry or anything. I give her a kong with PB for her to enjoy her "own" time. The water bowl is off the floor after the dogs drink after their dinner(only since I was trying to find out a way to solve the problem & I still offer water to the older toy) and I go to bed around 1 - 2 am and get up at 7:30 am. I was well aware of the requirements to potty train a puppy but just haven't run into this one issue before which is why I asked HOW to help or resolve the situation of her peeing in the crate. I am not overwhelmed but I actually think of it positively because now this puppy will be very used to a bath, brush, and blow dry. It happens at least once a day. As for crate size...Its the one I used for my toy poodle that she does not need(small). My apologies for not putting all this info out in the first post.


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## sarahmurphy (Mar 22, 2012)

I was speaking from more of the universal "you" than the finger-pointing "YOU". 

Maybe she loves the attention of the bath/dry/brush so much she has trained herself that soiling is the way to get it?? It sounds like you are doing the right things, and if she has no UTI or other actual medical concern, she may just need some time. I'm not a fan of the doggy diapers, but they have been mentioned as a method to get a dog to enjoy cleanliness in their environment, and I'd probably be headed there, if I were in your shoes. 12 weeks is still very young, so I'm guessing she'll fit in and figure it out soon. How is she with the older toy? Is the older toy a good example for her? Maybe the older toy could lead the way with the whole "Potty OUTSIDE" concept for her? 

sarah


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## TrinaBoo (Apr 3, 2012)

Trina (toy) is reliably house trained. It wasn't that way when I brought her home from the rescue. The breeder from where she is from trained her to pee pads so anything on the floor was fair game to her. She learned quickly that she prefers the bed with me to her crate. As for the puppy, she is more than happy to go potty outside and understands when I say the words by running to the back door. I understand it takes time I just don't want any bad habits setting in because of my own fault or if there was something I could have done differently which is why I ask for advice.


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