# Ear question



## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

I'm a bit frustrated with Saleen's ears and looking for opinions. 
To shave or not to shave, that is the question  

When she was a puppy, ummm I think about 6/7ish months I shaved her ears. Did it with a 10 I do believe, but it *may* have been a 15 blade. It was what I needed at the time but I have a love for big fluffy ears. I know ear hair takes FOREVER to grow back and was prepared for that. That was June/July 09. I touched them up about a month later but have let her grow 
since then. It's been over a year. She'll be two next month on the 1st. 

pic of when i shaved them the first time








picture of her last christmas after letting them grow








Now, over a year later the hair on her ears is really limp and thin and doesn't seem to be growing much past it's present state. I'm curious as to why of course, but maybe she just has a poor coat? It is rather soft and less dense than what Jazz has but not terrible. It's come in nicely after she was shave down last March. I can make her look pretty in other words, apart from her lack of ear hair. 

She also has "bad" ears. We are forever trying to stay on top of ear cleaning and keeping her from getting infections is a constant thing. She itches her ears a lot and we've done a lot of changes of diet and such to no avail. THAT started last October, never had a problem before that, and it started when I put plain tap water down her ear and my other three dog's ears thinking it was ear cleaner. The ear cleaner was out and the owner of the shop just filled the bottle up with water thinking it was my last day at work and I wouldn't notice. I noticed on the 4th dog  Dang. Anyway since that ear infection Saleen has had recurring infections, she's been on and off meds. We think we have the issue licked, finally, so long as we keep up with the homemade cleaner the last round of meds seem to have been better. Could all that or the scratching she was doing be keeping her ears from thickening up? Or again, is it likely just a poor coat? 

picture of her now (october)








If it's an issue of poor coat I think I'd rather shave them, or do tassels, but if it can be grown out better by changing up something we are doing grooming wise (and of course keeping her ears healthy) I think she looks nice with fluffy ears. I like it both ways I guess but she just looks nice with a more girlie type look with a tie up and ears.


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## Cameo (Feb 5, 2010)

if she is having chronic ear problems and does the scratching/rubbing thing, it COULD be breaking her hair off. 

At one point, I was thinking it took Cameo's ears forever to grow longer, then I realized, she was chewing the fronts off when she would eat her bones  Tried using a snood, but that lasted about 2 seconds before she got that thing off and ripped it up, lol. Some times, I'll put a wrap on her ears when she chews, but most of the time, I just don't bother. She doesn't have super thick hair on her ears either, not like some I groom that are are so thick you can hardly comb them and they are a bit on the delicate side so breakage is an issue the way she rolls around playing. 

It could just be a combination of things with your girl. Genetically thin hair, the ear problems, and delicate hair that breaks easily. 

Wish I could see that current pic larger and more detailed, but perhaps you could just trim them up (rounded) so they look fuller. Some times if you take a bit of the hair off the ends, it can make the other hair PUFF out more


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

I keep Dodgers ears short but I was always having problems with ear infections and issues with her ears. I heard from a few people to start flushing them while in the tub..wasn't sure about doing that since I had always heard the opposite about putting water in the ear.

Since I've started doing that though I haven't had one inflamation or infection. I also don't pull her ear hair anymore. Once it starts getting to where I can't keep that ear clean I use nair..i only leave it on about 3 minutes..no shorter,no longer and then i rinse and rinse and rinse again until it is gone and then I flush like normal with a gentle shampoo. 

Her ears have never been as pink as they are now..not one hint of irritation or smell. Her ears used to get so red/irritated just from plucking and such..and then she would scratch at it and make it more inflamed..so this seems to work for her really well...although I wouldn't do it on all my dogs since nair can be irritating it does work really well on her and I do it for a bichon client that gets carpet like hair in the ears..she has been very happy as well.

As far as the ear hair growth it does seem pretty short...I shaved Vegas ears over the summer with a 15 and his seem as long as Saleens are now. You could try adding a product called Halo Dream Coat to her food for a few months..it used to be sold at Petco but I haven't seen it at the Petco here in Charlotte...but many health food/holstic stores carry it on the pet isle as well. I love this product..and it really does seem to help with coat growth. I heard about it from a girl who does grooming competitions and wanted her dogs coat to grow to prepare for the next comp.

It's worth a try..even if it doesnt grow Saleens coat it does make the coat look and feel absolutely wonderful.


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

(click and it's bigger)
This photo was taken the same night and is closer up, it was Mid October, just over a month old now. Her ears are are trimmed a little round in an attempt to make them look fuller. I also like the rounded look VS the cut straight across look unless the ears are very very long. I have about decided her coat is just crap lol, though I love her dearly of course. It's gotten a lot of course wire like texture to it and I don't mind that since it's nicer to work with but it still has the softer cotton like thinner hair that even at the very short length she is now she gets little pin mats all over. Ugh  Annoying b/c she looks so pretty when she is nice and long but I just can't keep her brushed out when she is. Jazz can grow gobs of coat (and she a wooly beat right now) and not mat up. I almost never have an issue with her and she's got close to 4 inches of hair right now. Need to figure what cut I'm going to give her and do it soon. She looks a little odd. 

Snoods don't stay on Saleen long either. She is such a pretty girl (I think) when her ears are long and she has a tied up topknot but man she's a real tom boy and right now a tie up is impossible. 

Makes me jealous when I groom one of my client spoos and his coat is soooo soft and floppy but it's sooooooooo dense it doesn't matter. It stands up b/c it almost doesn't have the option to lay flat  Saleen's will fall flat, though it's better than it was.

Aiden, I haven't plucked Saleen's ears in uhhhhh.... gosh I don't even remember. I think Mel did it last and that was right after Nicholas was born, before that it had been months. I'm gonna need to pluck them a little so I can see to keep them clean and I'm thinking once I am sure I'm not going to have an infection again I'll stop totally. I almost never do it now. 
How are you flushing the ears?? Just spraying water down them? You follow that up with some sort of drying solution ? I'd be afraid to do it otherwise since putting water down there is what started the problem in the first place.


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

Grooming Smarter: Cleaning ears in the tub

That is a great article on ear flushing and why water in the ear doesn't cause infections. If you think about it..it makes sense. We go swimming and don't worry about water in the ears..let our dogs go swimming...

I don't follow with a drying solution most of the time. Sometimes I will put a drying creme in the ears..but usually it's just to keep the other groomer I work with from complaining..lol I don't do it because I think it's necessary.

I do make sure when drying that some air gets the ear dry...i don't force it down there..just slightly wave it over the ear enough to get the ear dry but far enough away where it doesn't hurt or irritate the dog.

She also talks about using nair in dogs ears..and I do know a few others who do this as well..you just have to really be careful and time it properly and pay attention to the color change of the product... and you also have to flush ears in order to use nair..otherwise you won't get all the product out. Nair is only really good for "packed" ears, or ears that have so much hair in them that you cant see into the ear..possibly like saleens! I only have one bichon client I use it on and a brand new schnauzer client that had packed ear hair..got the ears super clean! The client was very impressed and said nobody had ever gotten her dogs ears that clean..and it took all of 3 minutes in the tub. No red irritation that would normally occur from excessive plucking.

I build a recirculating bathing system and use that to flush ears similar to the video. Usually a gentle or clarifying shampoo. The coat handler clairfy works well or show season..anything gentle that does a good cleaning job. I promise I wouldn't suggest anything to your dogs that I thought would hurt them! This has worked well for me..and I was scared to death to do it my first time!


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## Sparkle&Spunk (Jan 26, 2010)

Aidan said:


> Grooming Smarter: Cleaning ears in the tub
> 
> 
> She also talks about using nair in dogs ears..and I do know a few others who do this as well..you just have to really be careful and time it properly and pay attention to the color change of the product... and you also have to flush ears in order to use nair..otherwise you won't get all the product out. Nair is only really good for "packed" ears, or ears that have so much hair in them that you cant see into the ear..possibly like saleens! I only have one bichon client I use it on and a brand new schnauzer client that had packed ear hair..got the ears super clean! The client was very impressed and said nobody had ever gotten her dogs ears that clean..and it took all of 3 minutes in the tub. No red irritation that would normally occur from excessive plucking.



wow this is great! I was just talking to someone about my little sister's poodle who has CRAZY ear hair and she suggested Nair- so you guys think its safe to use on the pups??


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

I believe it's as safe as anything else really. 

Can a dog react to it? Probably, just as a dog could possibly react to anything else, even "made for animals" products can irritate a dog somewhere. 

I do believe that with caution and making sure you RINSE all the product out that it is safe. I would do research on it on the groomers.net forum and other grooming forums to read both the pros and cons of using the product. Many people have used it quite a few times without any issues..i've never had a problem with it. I do know that nair irritates some people, so the chance that it could irritate a dog is always a possibility and shouldn't be ignored.

I've been using it fine in Dodgers ears..but i dont do it very often. I wait until she has quite a bit of hair and then do it. I only do it because her ears are sensitive to plucking and she hates it..she screams and tosses her head around that I feel it's almost safer to do nair rather than having something down her ear trying to get the hair out with her moving around so much.

She also likes ear-flushing. She kinda grumbles and moans as if it feels good and she will sometimes push her head into the sprayer. 

The same groomer who wrote the article about flushing also wrote this:

http://groomwise.typepad.com/grooming_smarter/2009/01/nair-.html

These are her ears right now..I did them not too long ago and she just had a bath today so they were flushed.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

I flushed Rileys ears for the very first time Wed. night. I dont have a circulating system or anything. Just a shower hose. I used a gentle tearless shampoo, rubbed it on the ear opening to get a lather, and then rinsed gently with the hose until the water ran clean. He is doing Great now!! No infection or anything! I was worried because one time Ry got a horrible middle ear infection at the groomers and is sensitive of his ears (esp. his right) to this day. I think i will do this every time now. Thanks guys!


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

You're welcome. I was worried my first time doing that to Dodger as well..but no problems so far.

In all honesty Riley probably already had bacteria, yeast or fungus in the ear..and that is what caused his infection. Water getting left certainly didn't help, but it was probably already present in his ear and the water just added to it.

I don't think water alone can cause an ear infection. Otherwise with all the swimming I do in the summer time I would have ear infections for 3 months or so.


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## Cameo (Feb 5, 2010)

True Aidan or with bacteria/yeast present, the plucking exhasterbated the problem.


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

Cameo said:


> True Aidan or with bacteria/yeast present, the plucking exhasterbated the problem.


I wish I could beat some clients over the head sometimes when they come in with dog's who already appear to have active ear infections and they insist that they MUST be plucked and are really peeved when I won't do it. I send dog's like that to the vet for their ears b/c if the vet does it I at least know the problem was seen and is probably going to be treated or that there was no problem and I'm an idiot lol. If I do it though they may not have been to the vet (even if the swear they have and the vet ordered them to have the ears plucked by the groomer) and they may not be treating the problem or doing anything at all about it until it gets a bit worse. THEN they'll call me up telling me they had to take fluffy to the vet with an ear infection that I caused and they know I caused it b/c the vet said so. (Hmmm, maybe I should extend my beatings to some of the bonehead DVM's here  ) Nice. 

Aiden, Saleen doesn't really have carpet ears, they get a bit bushy but it's ALL in the ear canal itself really. I make it a habit correct or not to shave the inside of the leather anyway just b/c I do. *shrugs* How did you build your recirculating system? I was looking at making a master blaster thing that I've read about on the groomer forum but I'm not sure how great that would be to use in ears? 

It's an interesting article, and while water may not cause ear infections all by itself I really really believe it's a big factor. It is just to much for me to ignore that I put water down my dog's ears and ALL FOUR developed ear infections at the same time. Though... come to think of it now I'd be willing to bet my house that there was probably something growing in that bottle so maybe the water was contaminated? Sure something could already have been in the ear I guess but like I said all four and they were getting groomed and bathed so often... I dunno. I developed REALLY bad skin reactions to the shampoo at the shop and suddenly realized it was being mixed in bulk and just left sitting out and the mixing bottles were not being washed. As soon as I brought my own in to work with me the last month I was there the skin issue went away. I dumped one of the HYPO TEARLESS' out and found scunge all on the bottom and sides of the bottle that wasn't obvious with the shampoo in the bottle. Shudders. Thankyou god, for seeing to it that the owner there was arrested two weeks ago... (unrelated charges) It really made my day lol


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## Cameo (Feb 5, 2010)

Wonder, 

You are on to something about the shampoo growing bacteria!!! there was a informal study done by a groomer, who's father is a microbiologist and she did cultures of her shampoo's and then some that she left in bottles for a few days. The results were, her fresh shampoo, had very little bacteria present, but the one's she left to sit for a few days, grew some pretty bad bacteria. SOOOO, it is completely possible, that what you were using was causing the infections and the skin reactions. 

I mix all my shampoo fresh and/or use my recirculator for all my clients. As for the ears, there is no mixing what so every. I use LP F&T degreaser straight from the bottle and work it in all over the inside of the ear flap and in the tight creases. Also use it on the hair of the ears. Then I flush and rinse well. I don't see any issue's with dogs upon returning and no complaints of ear infections. 

I do pluck if the hair is an obvious issue, but NOT if there is currently a bacterial infection. Yeast, yes, but not bacteria (which is pretty easy to tell the difference by look and smell). I pluck pre-bath, then flush. After drying the dog, I then use an ear spray that is made with Collodial Silver and witch hazel (along with some essential oils) to soothe and kill germs/yeast/etc.


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

I was always taught that shampoo mixed had to be discarded at the end of the work day and the bottles rinsed and disinfected or you would have a bacterial issue. When I worked for petsmart that was a big deal and there were a couple of shampoos, ugh the dreaded almond one (hated that shampoo) when it would started to get old in the gallon bottle I could always tell b/c I would break out. I'm sooo glad I don't work at the self serve anymore. Nothing seemed to get through to those people and neither one had any real knowledge about dogs in general or the grooming industry. They were people who knew just enough to be dangerous by making recomendations they read about but neglected to really search. One decided it would be a good idea to start stocking RX shampoos and was pushing them at everyone who had a dog with itchy skin without knowing what the problen was or which shamoo to use. He just had them sniff and decide which one smelled least offensive to them. Nice...  I about died....


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## Cameo (Feb 5, 2010)

OH BROTHER!!! 

Big pet peeve (literally) of mine is those who know just enough to be dangerous!!!


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