# Explaining COI



## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

Can someone explain COI and the importance of those numbers?


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

COI is coeficiancy of Inbreeding. 
Here is a statement that I found in the PHR 

What does COI = 17.2%[10G,10F,400U,91C] mean?
COI is Wright's Coefficient of Inbreeding. It is a measure of how related the parents of the dog were. What is considered high or low varies with breed. Dr Armstrong's work showed that for Standard Poodles the average COI was around 15%. That means that for Standard Poodles low would be under 15% and high would be above. In general it is considered "safer" to have lower than average COIs, but that is no guarentee against inherited diseases. The codes after the COI are G - number of generations in computation, F - number of full generations found in the pedigree, U - number of unique dogs in the pedigree, and C - number of common ancestors for sire and dam.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

I think that too many folks are getting hung up on low COi and not testing Thinking that the low COI is a guarantee against health issues. This is not good thinking. COI is as all other things a toll that is good to use but no the Law in breeding dogs We ust alway refer back to the pedigree and what is behind the dog. 
COI can very well be garbage in garbage out  In other word typos and mistakes can be made.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Many people believe that a low Coefficient of Inbreeding makes for healthier dogs and strong line breeding weakens a breeding population over time. While this is true for a total population, it is harder to say that it is true for an individual dog.

Linebreeding has its advantages. It cements characteristics in a dog (good and bad) and you have a higher chance of having a consistent litter where you know what you are going to get. When you out-cross, it is anyones guess what parts and characteristics a dog is going to get. Many people like to linebreed, cement qualities and then outcross to try and introduce new or different qualities. 

Anymore it is most common to see a COI between 5-10 in most show/performance bred Poodles. When I start seeing COI in the 20s and above, it makes me go hwell:

You have to consider the overall health of the dogs in a pedigree. Did a particular dog have a reputation for producing healthy puppies and for living to a ripe old age? Well then linebreeding is not such a bad thing! I might be willing to see this dog 3 times in a pedigree. But..... 5+ times. Not for me. 

Conversely, if there is a dog who died of Bloat at an early age or who was known to produce Addisons then I shudder to see him even once. I would take a pass if that dog appeared 2 or more times.


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

So if you are looking at poodlehealthregistry and see a dog that's listed with both PRA and SA and the COI is 29%, you'd want to stay away from anything related to that dog?


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

KPoos said:


> So if you are looking at poodlehealthregistry and see a dog that's listed with both PRA and SA and the COI is 29%, you'd want to stay away from anything related to that dog?


A Dog with these types of health issue yes you would want to stay away from it no matter what the COI l.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

What's the highest COI number anyone's seen in a dog?


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## Dogsinstyle (Sep 6, 2009)

Wycliffe Herald- 70.2 for 10 generations.


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

Dogsinstyle said:


> Wycliffe Herald- 70.2 for 10 generations.


:wacko:


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

KPoos said:


> :wacko:


Remember that setting type , whether it be color or establishing a breed standard requires quite a bit of inbreeding ..


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

bigredpoodle said:


> Remember that setting type , whether it be color or establishing a breed standard requires quite a bit of inbreeding ..


And what happens to the offspring of those that have a COI of 70%? Is it dangerous for the offspring?


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

KPoos said:


> So if you are looking at poodlehealthregistry and see a dog that's listed with both PRA and SA and the COI is 29%, you'd want to stay away from anything related to that dog?


I went back and reread this question. lets not forget that you can breed away from these problems.. So you could get into something down the line that was bred away from where the problem originated. A good breeder will tell you this information. There are health issues in the Poodle line period ! But if there were another line that you liked that was similar to the one you mentioned then yes go with the clean line. PHR is a great tool. but not everyone uses it. So in some cases it is better to know what you are up against than to go in blind  If a breeder is testing and they are honest that is worth a heck of a lot in my mind ! 
GEEZ what a rant !!!!


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

KPoos said:


> And what happens to the offspring of those that have a COI of 70%? Is it dangerous for the offspring?


chances are pretty good the offspring would not have this high of a COI. This 70% dog was bred this way for a reason. And of course it depends on what is back there. Health wise that is When you are setting type there is bound to be some issues. The puppies would be fine... But in this case you would try to breed a lower COI down the line.Once you have acheived your goal that is.


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

I see. Thanks for the information!


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

You are welcome !


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

KPoos said:


> So if you are looking at poodlehealthregistry and see a dog that's listed with both PRA and SA and the COI is 29%, you'd want to stay away from anything related to that dog?



I'm not sure what you are asking. Does a pedigree have a dog who was directly affected with SA and PRA close up more than once?


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