# Tail curling?



## Winnow

is this a show dog or a pet ?


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## Paris-London

Pet first and foremost but if I were able to show him I would, but the tail curling is a big problem, and also I am afraid he may be an inch too tall when full grown. But if those problems work themselves out I would like to show. He has a great champion AKC pedigree.

It is important to me that it turns out straight but it doesn't mean I will "get rid of him" if it stays curly I just hope hope hope it straightens or there is something humane I can do to straighten it.


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## Paris-London

I am also a groomer and a straight tail would look much better with a full continental like I am hoping for.


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## Marian

He sure is a cutie, no matter what his tail looks like.


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## Paris-London

Marian said:


> He sure is a cutie, no matter what his tail looks like.


Thanks he is a gorgeous little man

His parents tails were straight and stick straight up. 
I was hoping to breed him but the tail issue, I don't know if it is a dominant or recessive trait either.
I know the TYPE of tail he has isn't suppose to be a major disqualifier because it is not tightly curled against the back but only loosely, but he wouldn't be winning any major shows with that tail I don't think.


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## Purple Poodle

I would say 80% of the dogs shown in AKC have incorrect tail carriage. (Over the back)

Do you have pictures of the parents?

Sorry to say but is tail will stay this way.


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## Paris-London

No I deleted the emails that I had the pictures in! I have one small unclear picture of the mom left but it wont help.
I did not know that 80% have this tail. His is even looser curled now than it was in that picture I will have to get a good picture of him. Sometimes he carries it straight, sometimes he carries it out, sometimes it's curled, usually when hes most attentive

There is no way to "train" it straight? Darn


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## partial2poodles

Yep, that little tail will carry like that all the time! If I were you, I'd take full advantage of it and make it his most glorious showpiece feature. You can let it grow, blow it out straight and even flat-iron it. It also would look gorgeous with pale blue accent color in the ends. He is really pretty faced. When I dock tails, I remove that "cord" which if left, seems to cause the tail to curve. Its like its a "Tension Cord"...removing it releases the tension. I am no doggie cosmetic surgeon but I'm sure there are vets willing to try to correct it for you....That would be Dr. Vet 90210. I know the feeling of dissapointment. My 1st standard had a curved tail AND a crooked baby tooth, which grew in as a crooked adult tooth. The breeder LIED and said it would all correct itself. Believe us, it DOESN"T do it on its own.


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## Paris-London

The breeder did tell me it would correct itself, and I told her specifically I wanted to breed him and paid for the breeding rights, and I did not want any flaws visually or genetically, and now I am re-thinking because of his curling tail he will pass it on to the puppies and that wasn't what I was aiming for.

I am not really understanding what it will look like groomed in the way you say, I love tail poms though  he will still be able to have one but it will look silly when flipped over his back but the good news is he doesn't always flip it.

I don't think I want to have it corrected with surgery. Docking at 3 days is different than when they are older I just could not that for visual effect.

I am wanting to do some sport with him whether it's agility obedience or show, and I guess it wont be the latter of the three then!

Thanks anyways!


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## cbrand

Nope that is a gay tail and it will likely stay that way. Sometimes they ease back just a bit as the dog ages, but I would not hang my hat on that.

The good news is that you can show and finish a Poodle with a tail this gay. One of the advantages of a gay tail is that it never goes down in the ring, which is the kiss of death in Poodles who are supposed to have an "I own the world" attitude.

You can get a tail fixed. This usually entails climbing into a car at a show with a terrier person. This person will cut the tendons in your dog's tail without benefit of anesthesia. Besides the pain and suffering the dog endures, it can also lead to serious infection and sometimes nerve damage that causes the tail to just flop around (you will never finish a Poodle like that). This practice is wrong and evil and I encourage you to avoid it even if you run into people who say it is OK.


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## Paris-London

cbrand said:


> Nope that is a gay tail and it will likely stay that way. Sometimes they ease back just a bit as the dog ages, but I would not hang my hat on that.
> 
> The good news is that you can show and finish a Poodle with a tail this gay. One of the advantages of a gay tail is that it never goes down in the ring, which is the kiss of death in Poodles who are supposed to have an "I own the world" attitude.
> 
> You can get a tail fixed. This usually entails climbing into a car at a show with a terrier person. This person will cut the tendons in your dog's tail without benefit of anesthesia. Besides the pain and suffering the dog endures, it can also lead to serious infection and sometimes nerve damage that causes the tail to just flop around (you will never finish a Poodle like that). This practice is wrong and evil and I encourage you to avoid it even if you run into people who say it is OK.


OMG that is the worst thing I have ever heard! 
No I would never ever do that to one of my babies.

SO I can still hope to participate in show then? I just have to hope he ends up 10 inches or less then!:rolffleyes:

Little London defiantly has the "I own the world and more" attitude


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## partial2poodles

I looked at your tail again. It IS docked to a nice length. YOu can fashion the tail ball so that 90% of the fur ball is on the underside of the tail and you trim the part closest to the back shorter. It is all illusion...the ball appears to be mounted correctly on top of the base of the tail, but in reality the fur is not symmetrical all around the tail. I also would never do that terrier snip. Thats horrible. If I were you, I'd START preparing him for the show ring. Join handling classes. Teach him to stack, Grow that topknot out and just watch that tail and see what happens. He might be the next little "Walker"...the dog that Kaz Hosaka is showing right now!


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## Paris-London

partial2poodles said:


> I looked at your tail again. It IS docked to a nice length. YOu can fashion the tail ball so that 90% of the fur ball is on the underside of the tail and you trim the part closest to the back shorter. It is all illusion...the ball appears to be mounted correctly on top of the base of the tail, but in reality the fur is not symmetrical all around the tail. I also would never do that terrier snip. Thats horrible. If I were you, I'd START preparing him for the show ring. Join handling classes. Teach him to stack, Grow that topknot out and just watch that tail and see what happens. He might be the next little "Walker"...the dog that Kaz Hosaka is showing right now!


I saw walker on TV the other night
Yes his tail is docked for show standard it just curls and that is a very good idea about making the bulk of the hair on the underside.
I am not planning on being huge into showing etc. I would like to do some local stuff here and in the surrounding states even maybe. I need to read more into it and contact my local training club. Is 11 weeks a good age to start conformation training?

Thank you for all of your help we're new at this


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## roxy25

Paris-London said:


> Pet first and foremost but if I were able to show him I would, but the tail curling is a big problem, and also I am afraid he may be an inch too tall when full grown. But if those problems work themselves out I would like to show. He has a great champion AKC pedigree.
> 
> It is important to me that it turns out straight but it doesn't mean I will "get rid of him" if it stays curly I just hope hope hope it straightens or there is something humane I can do to straighten it.


I am not sure if I understand, was this dog bought as a show potential? Because if the breeder said this puppy is then I would contact the breeder about the problems you see. The tail is a pet peeve of mines but its also the last think I would worry about. I would focus more on the structure and if the puppy meets breed standard.


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## Paris-London

I didn't buy him to show, but they did tell me "I could probably show him" 
I just thought about maybe getting into it because he is so pretty, and has nice structure but I don't know the exact standards other than like height tail set etc.


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## Paris-London

And I am not planning on returning him or anything over the tail it doesn't bother me much, like I said I was just hoping it would straighten out.


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## roxy25

Paris-London said:


> I didn't buy him to show, but they did tell me "I could probably show him"
> I just thought about maybe getting into it because he is so pretty, and has nice structure but I don't know the exact standards other than like height tail set etc.


Could and should are two different things lol , I would talk to the breeder more and see what Him/her opinion are of the puppy really is. If the puppy is not show quality you will be wasting you time not unless you just want practice for the future. 

here is the standard 

http://www.poodleclubofamerica.org/breedstandard.htm


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## partial2poodles

Could and should....hmmm. I see a lot of breed-owner-handler dogs in the ring. SHOULD they rightfully be there? Possibly not when compared to some of the big kennel name dogs. HOWEVER, they don't look half bad and you never know until you enter the ring. I happen to think my silver male could win westminster but I have had poodle people tell me the judges wouldn't give a passing glance because he's 22 inches high. For a male these days its considered tiny. HOWEVER, I believe he has what it takes. So I encourage everyone to enter the "sport" of purebred dogs. That's what it is, a sport....just like anyother. You train, you prepare but you don't always win. It doesn't mean you are not worthy to enter the competition. Every professional sport has a winning streak and a losing streak. It just might be little London's in the ring at the right time, under the right judge and is just "ON" that day. Good luck.


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## roxy25

partial2poodles said:


> Could and should....hmmm. I see a lot of breed-owner-handler dogs in the ring. SHOULD they rightfully be there? Possibly not when compared to some of the big kennel name dogs. HOWEVER, they don't look half bad and you never know until you enter the ring. I happen to think my silver male could win westminster but I have had poodle people tell me the judges wouldn't give a passing glance because he's 22 inches high. For a male these days its considered tiny. HOWEVER, I believe he has what it takes. So I encourage everyone to enter the "sport" of purebred dogs. That's what it is, a sport....just like anyother. You train, you prepare but you don't always win. It doesn't mean you are not worthy to enter the competition. Every professional sport has a winning streak and a losing streak. It just might be little London's in the ring at the right time, under the right judge and is just "ON" that day. Good luck.


Yes they can be there if the dog is show quality LOL I hate when breeder telling people it could be shown and its not show quality. Some breeder tend to do this with new comers. I hate to see news comer have a dog not finishable running around in the ring and they never get a title. IMO that's a waste of time. 

and Enzo is like 23 inches and we show him owner handler


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## roxy25

I had that happen to me with my cats Since i was new this breeder took advantage of me , telling me this cat she sold me was showable and in reality she was not show quality. I did not find out until I started to talk to other breeders and I showed them pictures.


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## Paris-London

Well I don't know why they would even have mentioned it because all I mentioned was that I was looking to get into breeding toys, not showing.
They mentioned it right before I left with him, I had paid and everything already.

It doesn't matter, unless I had someone who shows toys tell me I need to show him, I will probably just stick with agility/obedience.
He is like between 3-3 1/2 lbs at 11 weeks, and is a tall poodle so I am betting he will top out at over 10 inches possibly 11. Which would disqualify me if I have read things right.
I've read the standards and other than the tail he fits it as far as reading goes, but I would need a trained eye to look at him in person and feel on him to be sure.

If I were to get in show, I wouldn't do more than some little local shows so I am sure he would still look pretty darn good among some of the other poodles. We could get lucky some shows you never know what other dogs are going to be there.


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## roxy25

Paris-London said:


> Well I don't know why they would even have mentioned it because all I mentioned was that I was looking to get into breeding toys, not showing.
> They mentioned it right before I left with him, I had paid and everything already.
> 
> It doesn't matter, unless I had someone who shows toys tell me I need to show him, I will probably just stick with agility/obedience.
> He is like between 3-3 1/2 lbs at 11 weeks, and is a tall poodle so I am betting he will top out at over 10 inches possibly 11. Which would disqualify me if I have read things right.
> I've read the standards and other than the tail he fits it as far as reading goes, but I would need a trained eye to look at him in person and feel on him to be sure.
> 
> If I were to get in show, I wouldn't do more than some little local shows so I am sure he would still look pretty darn good among some of the other poodles. We could get lucky some shows you never know what other dogs are going to be there.


O ok , I just wanted to help you because I been there where a breeder lied and said one thing and it was not true. I would hate for you to show and your puppy didn't cut it. Showing is super expensive ! 

Yeah we do local shows also , we are growing hair out ! Toys are easier with the hair when showing so it wouldn't be such a big deal.


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## Purple Poodle

Does your breeder have a website?

You say you plan on breeding this dog, I would think someone who is planning to breed their dog and bought the dog with breeding in mind they would know the breed standard and realize what is and what is not acceptable for tail carriage and that there is nothing you can do to "fix" it.

Anyway....


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## jak

Purple Poodle said:


> Does your breeder have a website?
> 
> You say you plan on breeding this dog, I would think someone who is planning to breed their dog and bought the dog with breeding in mind they would know the breed standard and realize what is and what is not acceptable for tail carriage and that there is nothing you can do to "fix" it.
> 
> Anyway....


Yup, one would think so....


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## Harley_chik

I would like to know who his breeder is and/or what his pedigree is. I haven't looked into toys much but I would think a reputable breeder wouldn't give breeding rights until the dog was older and hopefully finished in the showring. Not "here's the price for pet and here's the price for breeding rights and maybe you could show him." It just sounds money hungry to me, but maybe I'm misunderstanding. Like I said maybe toy breeders do things differently, I'm learning that different breeds are different. I'm looking for a Spoo, but a toy may be a possibility one day. One toy breed is enough for now, though. He is a pretty boy!


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## Jillian

You could show and finish in UKC with that tail with no problems. If you do breed, pick a mate with a very correct tail.If everything else with your dog is nice quality, you will probably get some nice puppies if you pick the right mate.


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