# Socializing with cats?



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Ummm - I think your book is overstating things! It is certainly easier when they are very young, but any number of adult dogs have learned to live happily with cats and other animal companions.

The main thing is to try to ensure Lilith never gets to chase the kittens. Introduce them with the kittens in a crate and Lilith on a lead. She will probably be fascinated, but reward her for being calm, and give her the jackpot when she turns away. Keep them separate for as long as it takes for her to be totally relaxed with them. If you can, have the kittens in a separate area. There will, inevitably, be games of chase in time - the kittens may well start them - but as long as you have built up a friendly relationship between them she will be playing, not hunting. And work really hard on her recall - Poppy sometimes forgets herself, and gets too enthusiastic about trying to make the cats play. Being able to call her away is invaluable.


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## Birdie (Jun 28, 2009)

Haha, I agree with fjm. Don't worry, I think your book is being a little bit too hung up on age. Yes, it is better when a dog is raised around different animals, but that's not the be-all-end-all. I don't know if Desmond was raised around cats or not (didn't see any when I picked him up), but he LOVES them. Loves love looooves kitties. It was easier for me to get him used to cats because of this, all I had to do was restrain his excitement instead of teach him not to attack or chase. 

When I first brought him into the house, we already had cats though. What I did was keep him tethered to me (was doing that for potty training anyway) and heavily monitored any interaction between cat and dog. He would always get SO excited, and I would have to take him away from the cat and let him calm down. The cats were troopers, and put up with him learning. The only problem we had was Desmond would insistently try to get the cat to play by bounding and pouncing all around her, which... was no good. He still does this sometimes, we just call him away. 
When we introduced the new kittens, I did the exact same thing, only it was easier since he was older and listened to me better. Supervise, praise calm behavior, encourage friendliness, prevent any rough housing like chasing or trying to play (if kitty doesn't want to), and let the cat have her "me place". It went GREAT! The first kitten and Desmond became good friends, and actually played quite a bit until we got a second kitten. The cats became super close and both tease Desmond now.  It's pretty funny actually, they get along very well.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

You also have the big advantage that you are introducing kittens (have they grown up around dogs?). Kittens tend to be both curious and fearless - they are quite likely to terrorise poor Lilith at first! When I was a child, we introduced a Siamese kitten into our household when the dog was about 5. The dog sniffed the kitten, the kitten spat and scratched the dog's nose, and there was never any trouble betwen them after that! They eventually got to the stage of curling up together in front of the fire, and used to take it in turns to yip or yowl to come in. The cat used to steal for the pair of them, too, dropping bits of meat down to the dog from the dishes that were supposedly out of reach in the pantry!


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## Lilith (Sep 29, 2010)

Good to know your dogs and cats became friends. That was sort of the entire idea - and why I wanted them all at around the same time. Both my dog and the breed of cat I'm getting are very affectionate, so it just won't work to have 1 human with 2 types of animals that dont get along!

I feel better now. 

The kittens most likely will never have seen a dog before. But they are Devon Rex kitties, otherwise known as "dogs in cat suits", or "monkeys in cat suits", or "poodle cats" (! Ha! - they have short, curly, non-shedding hair) . 

Their personality is described as "a loving, social cat, especially with people. In general, it is friendly with dogs, other cats, and even rodents, but it enjoys being with people the most.They are known for remaining playful even throughout their later years. Unlike some breeds, this breed does not need time to itself. It enjoys being around people most of the time. Devon Rexes have been described as "dog-like", due to their friendly, human-centered demeanor and various tricks that have been observed in this breed. Some have been taught to fetch slippers and walk on a leash..." (can you tell I'm more of a 'dog person' than a 'cat person'??) 

The only reason I have 2 kitties coming is because the breeder didn't think a housekeeper and a poodle was enough company during the day for one Devon while I'm at work - insisted on selling them as a pair. They seemed to me to be the most likely cats to make fast friends with a dog, and as an added bonus - none of my animals will shed in the house! (actually, I find it vastly amusing that I'm always picking _my_ hairs off of the dog, instead of the other way around!)

I gotta tell you though, the dog breeding and dog training and dog behavior stuff out there emphasizes the first 16 weeks SO MUCH that I've just been incredibly stressed about everything. The stuff I read makes it sound like if you miss the boat you're sunk forever. :wacko:

I need to keep reminding myself that I didnt' know _anything_ about proper dog training like I'm learning now when I had my last dog. And that dog was amazingly well-adjusted and well-behaved. 

Thanks for the reality check.


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

Matrix would love to have a cat...for breakfast!
Mitch is very curious about cats, and I think with a slow introduction and a dog savvy cat, things would go well. 

I LOVE Devon rex cats. A family friend has two and they are just a hoot. Two kittens are generally always better than one. They keep each other occupied...I think in some respects kittens are crazier than puppies!


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_Out of our five spoos who were brought up with kitten/cats, four have a high prey drive for cats when they are outside and the cats run. There was a problem in the home for a while at first as well. It became necessary to put up gates to rooms the cats were allowed in and to keep the dogs out. Whenever they were together while we were here to keep an eye on them, they were told to leave it in a strong tone if they so much as looked at a cat. They have now learned to leave them alone if they are in a prey drive mode. They will approach the cats just to play and it is a challenge to know the difference; especially if our cat instigated it. The thing is that the cat will come to them for attention and loving and will sleep with them despite being chased by them. 

I am comfortable with the dogs and cats when they are in the house under supervision but will never trust them outside. So I do need to be vigilant when it comes to our kittens/cats. I don't know if the spoos would actually hurt/kill a cat but I am never going to take a chance on finding out.

Our golden did kill one on my 5 month old kittens back in the spring and I was devastated to know that my own dog would kill my kitten. Then I caught her trying to kill my other kitten in the house right behind me in the kitchen. She literally stood on the abdomen with her two large front feet pumping up and down to crush him. That is how the first one died. There was not a mark on him. I was shocked beyond belief. She is no longer allowed to be around our cats of course. I was so upset that I wanted to put her down.

We have to be careful of the pack mode. When they are outside together as a pack, they behave completely differently than when they are in the house or under supervision. I guess you can take the dog out of the wild but you can't necessarily take all of the wild instinct out of the dog.

I wish you luck in finding a way to help your dog and kittens through this.
_


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Lilith said:


> I gotta tell you though, the dog breeding and dog training and dog behavior stuff out there emphasizes the first 16 weeks SO MUCH that I've just been incredibly stressed about everything. The stuff I read makes it sound like if you miss the boat you're sunk forever. :wacko:


I do sometimes feel that, in the effort to encourage owners to ensure their pups are socialised as much and as early as possible, some writers may be scaring us witless unnecessarily! So much depends upon the experiences the puppy had at their breeders - Poppy was very nearly 16 weeks when I got her, and could probably have done with a wider range of experiences. She had obviously had a happy time as a baby, though, and with a lot of attention to socialisation and confidence building is turning into a stable, happy dog. Sophy was about 13 weeks when she came to me, and had been surrounded by dogs, cats, and people - she has developed wonderful social skills. A young puppy from a deprived environment is obviously better out of it as early as possible. A pup growing up with a knowledgeable breeder is a very different matter.


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## Penjilum-Poodles (Apr 17, 2010)

When Rayah and Bethany met our kitties they wanted to chase them, but it was a strict no no. If you let her have a go at it she will think it is acceptable. It's a great game of chase to them. 
Rayah is really quick at understanding now that i taught her leave it. When she would start chase i would say "Rayah, no, leave it." or now just "leave it" and as soon as she stopped i treated her. She is more friend to the kitties whom rub up against her now. 
Bethany, the little devil still thinks she can have a go at it and play/bite/chase the kitties but were working on her leave it too. 

In the beginning it would be better to keep the kittens in a bathroom or your bedroom where they can relax for the first few days. It is VERY stressful for a new kitty, so i wouldn't introduce them just yet. Then put a baby gate between the doors, allowing your spoo a chance to smell them and vice versa. Your kitties will most certainly (if their not used to dogs) hiss and spit, but i'm certain in do time your kitties and Lilith will be best of friends. You just have to make certain Lillith doesn't think it's acceptable to give chase.

Devons are so cute! My godmother just recently got two kittens as well! But she already has many devons... 
Best wishes with your new kitties, i'd love to see pictures of them curled up on the sofa with your Lilith one day.


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## rjen (Apr 7, 2010)

When I brought Belle home I had a snotty siamese [still have her] I had dogs first so Kitana had to adjust,to dogs. Then last winter some horrible person dumped a little kitten during a nasty cold spell[sub-zero] we trapped him and for some reason he adopted Belle [she was 2]Belle was confused at first since Spot loved to suck on her hair. The 2 are still best freinds and Spot gets along great with other dogs.[he kind of thinks he is a dog] Throw out the book introduce them slowly and with supervision you should all do fine


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

I think you will do fine as long as you set rules and give the cats a "safe room" they can go to. When i brought Ry home we had a 1 yo cat. She doesnt play and didnt like him. Riley would try and chase her sometimes too, but we worked through that. Never did he try to hurt her though, just wanted to play. 
A few years after that we brought home my male cat who now rules the roost. He can, will and doesnt hesitate to boss Riley around. And Riley will usually listen, or just ignore him if its an unreasonable request (like moving away from petting because the cat wants some). The cat will even walk right up and start eating Rys food. 

Now outside cats are another matter! My cats dont go outside, so it is usually neighbors cats or feral cats. He will chase them with great pleasure!! If the cats wouldnt run he would be fine. He would not tear into them though if caught. 
One time when he was about 6 months old he tried to chase my neighbors mean a$$ cat. Mid-chase the cat screamed, turned around, and started chasing Riley!!!! Riley came yelping to the door!!! I was outside with him, and it was the FUNNIEST thing i have almost ever seen!!! I was dying!! That ONE cat he never chased again, and gave him wide birth for years until we moved!!


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## poodleholic (Jan 6, 2010)

The visual I got w/Riley and the cat chasing him was toooooo funny! We've had similar around our house with a male feral cat I brought home from work. 

I agree with others about the 16-wk. thing. While that may be optimal, doesn't mean it can't happen later on with good results. Maddy and Beau are both high prey drive, but live in harmony with the cats. Tommy (the feral) goes in and out, but stays in the front or back yard. Not what I'd like, as my cats have always been indoor cats, but he gets too stressed if kept inside all the time. He sleeps with us (me and the SPoos), and even goes on walks in the neighborhood. When I let the SPoos out in the morning, he'll race up to them, and all 3 SPoos give him a good grooming!


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