# scabs on head?



## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Did anything maybe spill on his head?


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## Qarza (Feb 23, 2013)

Is it dried blood? Have you tried warm water to wash them away.


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

yes, I shampood him the other night and it did not work. 
No, as far as I can see, this is dried blood and perhaps a little bit of flakey skin in there as well.

Each lesion is about 1/8th of an inch and they are roundish or spherelike.

I tried washing and combing out without success. He doesn't like me picking at them.

I would say they most resemble what a tic would feel like--although they are definitely not tics.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Someone on fb mentioned scabs being associated with sebaceous cysts.


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

I looked up these cysts and I do not think that is the answer either. These scabs are not a lump under the skin, but some crusty thing growing on the top. Maybe growing is a strong word--a crusty thing existing on the surface of his skin.


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## Qarza (Feb 23, 2013)

Are they warts?


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

Qarza said:


> Are they warts?


OMG! I hope not!

If they are, I really hope they can't be passed to humans because I have been touching them--A LOT!


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

"Fortunately, canine warts cannot be transmitted from dogs to people or from dogs to cats. - See more at: http://www.petwave.com/Dogs/Dog-Health-Center/Skin-Disorders/Warts.aspx#sthash.JYIqq9ud.dpuf"

whew! OK. I still hope they are not warts. They do not seem to be near his eyes or his mouth like this wart info is suggesting they would be--although I do not think that would eliminate the warty possibility.

The good news is that they do not seem to be bothering him.


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## Qarza (Feb 23, 2013)

If they are I think the vet will easily be able to remove them. Warts are a virus. I don't know enough about them personally but you might like to google them and also look at images on google to see if that is what they look like. Here too is an article Treatments for Dog Warts - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com
Let us know what the vet says.


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

annnnd--I just looked at a bunch of disturbing pics of canine warts. what my boy has does not look like these. THANK everything holy!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Umm - I'm itching just thinking of it, but have you ruled out lice? Dog lice are very slow moving, and if they had their heads embedded could look like grey scabs...


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

Lice?? eek! The possibilities get worse and worse. These are definitely black, not grey. I am going to try to get into the vet on Monday.


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## Qarza (Feb 23, 2013)

Still waiting to hear what the vet says.


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

My appt is tomorrow afternoon. The technician took a look and she does not know what they are. Her first thought was flea bites, but he takes the meds and he has no flea dirt on him. So tomorrow the vet is going to take a closer look. They warned me that they might shave his head for a close look.


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## Qarza (Feb 23, 2013)

The hair will grow back. It is best that you know and have peace of mind.


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

The Vet does not know what it is--but did say there are a lot of white cells in the lesions. She could not find any mites or other critters but suggested that I test for ring worm. The results will be back in two or three weeks.

He has been prescribed cephalex for ten days.

They shaved half his head down and now he looks like a klingon!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Mr Babykins Jasper said:


> They shaved half his head down and now he looks like a klingon!


But an awful cute Klingon I'm sure! Hope the treatment helps and the mystery is solved.


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## Qarza (Feb 23, 2013)

Now what does a Poodle Klingon look like? I am glad she ruled out parasites but sorry that you still don't know for sure.


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

Imagine Worf from Star Trek. High bald, sloping head and round full hair on the back and sides.

I am taking him to the groomer tomorrow to see what she can do, but I do not have high hopes. My poor baby!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

_Yikes_!:scared: Might be the only poodle who would ever scare me!! I'm sure the groomer will work some magic.


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

I took him for a groom and now ge looks gorgeous again--although more like a greyhound than a poodle


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Mr Babykins Jasper said:


> I took him for a groom and now ge looks gorgeous again--although more like a greyhound than a poodle


Just as I suspected he would! Next to the Poodle, the Greyhound is one of my very favorite breeds. Chagall has a Greyhound girlfriend named Truffle, she's retired from the Hialeah Race Track in Florida. You should see that girl run!! Any chance of seeing a picture of your newly groomed "poo-grey"??:smile:


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## Qarza (Feb 23, 2013)

Yes photos please. And greyhounds that have retired and been re homed all seem to have fantastic natures.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Qarza said:


> greyhounds that have retired and been re homed all seem to have fantastic natures.


You are so right! Here's Chagall's Greyhound girlfriend Truffle, during a cold early morning walk we took. She is as lovely inside as out! If I didn't have a poodle, I would have a greyhound!


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

Here is my new greypoo cross


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

sigh-that pic is really small-try this one-


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

How sleek and stylish!! And I soon hope scab-free!!


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

Chagall's mom said:


> How sleek and stylish!! And I soon hope scab-free!!


I hope so too. The meds he is on should take care of the infection. It could be that these lesions are simply from a scratch from another animal (like a cat-he loves talking to them) and they became infected. The best scenario here is that they heal and we never have this problem again.


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

My boy has eaten all his meds, but the spots remain. The plot thickens though as the dog next door also has these spots and that dog is my dog's half sister.

So I guess we will be going back to the vet.
What annoys me is that the dog from next door goes to the same vet. I would have thought they would have picked up on how two related poodles, who live next door to each other have come in with the same spots in the same week.


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## Qarza (Feb 23, 2013)

Have they taken a biopsy?


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

No--they took scrapings and looked under a microscope. They found nothing. Then they did a test for ring worm, but the results are not back yet. I am assuming that it is something contagious, since the dog next door has it, or that it is a hereditary skin issue, since the two dogs are half siblings.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

No results yet huh? Waiting waiting waiting!!!! 
BTW I like his 'greyhound' look ......I bet the rabbits around there are worried now! LOL!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Mr Babykins Jasper said:


> No--they took scrapings and looked under a microscope. They found nothing. Then they did a test for ring worm, but the results are not back yet. I am assuming that it is something contagious, since the dog next door has it, or that it is a hereditary skin issue, since the two dogs are half siblings.


How incredibly vexing and frustrating! Getting a diagnosis can be such an arduous process. Sorry you're continuing to have such a time of it!! Do the spots/scabs seem to bother your poodle? It's new news that your neighbor's dog has it too. Have you had a chance to ask your vet WHAT'S UP WITH THAT?? You so often have to be your own "medical detective." I rely a lot on the Merck Veterinary Manual, which can annoy the dickens out of my vet at times because you know what they say about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing! You may want to take a look to see if there are any clues in it to help you. Lots of us are hanging around to see the resolution here. Hang in there!

Diagnosis of Skin Diseases: Integumentary System Introduction: Merck Veterinary Manual


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

I got news today. The ring worm (fungus) test came back negative. Now they have suggested a biopsy--that will cost 400 dollars!! I am feeling kind of broke. Especially since the ring worm test, the scrapings and the meds already cost 200 dollars.

The vet does not think the two dogs have passed anything one to another because they would have had to do it through the fence. They have not physically been together since last summer. The neighbour used some calendua cream on their dog and that made the spots go away. I am going to try the same before we get the biopsy.

I can't see how calendula cream could possibly work, but it it does, this problem must be a skin irritation of some sort. 

The Vet has no idea what it is--plus she was a different vet than the usual one who is on holiday. So two Vets have taken a look and neither has any idea what it is.


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## rjen (Apr 7, 2010)

Have you checked for demodex?


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

I had to google what Demodex was--yes, they tested for parasites and fungus.

I am of a mind that two things are going on. The vet mentioned something about a vascular issue that leads to scabby lesions on the tips of the ears. He has a lesion in the same spot on the tip of each ear and these are new--or new to my notice sinnce he was shaved down. The vet ruled out this issue because he has other lesions on his head. HOWEVER, I am wondering if he has this vascular issue-PLUS-he has some irritation on his scalp.

As of today, the scalp lesions are gone and he just has the lesions on the tips of his ears and a couple on the sides of his face where his whiskers grow out.

I find it very interesting that the lesions are symetrical...I am looking for a specific word that eludes me...his lesions are in the exact same place on each side of his head. THAT does not sound like a parasite or fungus of any kind but something internal in his body.

:-(


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

All the little scabby spots are gone, except for the ones at the ends of his ears.

This could be from the calendula cream or maybe it was from the anti-itch hot spot spray that I bought. That contained tea tree and aloe.

We still do not know what it is, but I am very glad that it is better.


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## Qarza (Feb 23, 2013)

Well I too am glad they have gone, but hate mysteries. Maybe you will never know.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Mr Babykins Jasper said:


> All the little scabby spots are gone, except for the ones at the ends of his ears.
> 
> This could be from the calendula cream or maybe it was from the anti-itch hot spot spray that I bought. That contained tea tree and aloe.
> 
> We still do not know what it is, but I am very glad that it is better.


Happy for the good news!:thumb: I want to suggest you make a note of the date the scabs disappeared, and what you used on Jasper and when you used it. Just in case the spots that seem to have disappeared in front of your eyes return at some point. It might be helpful to have a record if you ever need to do more "detective work." Just a thought, for what it's worth. I have heard great things about calendula, a friend used it post radiation treatments and it really helped her skin heal. Whatever worked, I'm so glad it did! And I hope that's the end it.


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

Thanks, Chagall's Mom! That is a really good idea. I hope that I never see these scabby lesions again, but that is probably wishful thinking. Since it was not a parasite or fungus, it was probably some sort of reaction to something he ate or came in contact with. Chances are that it will happen again.

For now, I am glad they are gone!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Mr Babykins Jasper said:


> Since it was not a parasite or fungus, it was probably some sort of reaction to something he ate or came in contact with. Chances are that it will happen again.


You mentioned your neighbor's dog had the same thing and there's a fence between your properties. This is_ really_ off-the-wall (off the fence actually!), but I wonder if it's the fence itself, perhaps if it's wood it's been treated with some chemical or something? Or it has some icky insects living in it? Or if it's a chain link maybe it just has some sort of cooties on it?? Told you it was a wild idea, but hey, you throw enough out, one sticks! Hope Jasper remains scab-free.


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

thats not a bad guess.
The treated wood fence is new so it might be leaching some chemicals. We just replaced that section of fence last summer. I do not think there would be any living critters on it at the moment as its still the dead of winter here. Also, the dogs are spending very little time in the back yard right now due to the cold.

The plot thickens because both dogs were away. I was in Mexico and the other dog was at the breeder having puppies. She came home from the "maternity ward" with her spots.

The other dog is on a chicken free diet-- Chicken was something that we thought may be the culprit as my dog's mother is allergic to chicken.

The dogs have the same father so if it is a skin disorder then it came from dad not mom. --I would assume.

It is all very puzzling.

One other thing they may both have had in common is a stressful event. I assume having puppies is stressful. My dog had a stressful plane ride. Auto immune skin disorders love to flare up during times of stress.

so I don't know.


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

Sadly, the spots are back--only now there are more of them.

This time it started with a wet spot on his head. At first I thought he had some sap dripped on him or something.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

So odd. I don't understand what a biopsy will do for you since the neighbor's related dog has the same issue. If it was some kind of tumor it would not go away. Perhaps give fish oil and use the cream you had luck with before. So sorry to hear this has come back.


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## Qarza (Feb 23, 2013)

I am so sorry you have this worrying issue again. It is terrible when you don't know what is causing something.


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## Lene (Jan 18, 2013)

I'm just wondering, if your vet has test for allergies, like to fleas....

I had a dog many years ago, who was allergic to fleas, and presented itself in scabs...


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Mr Babykins Jasper said:


> thats not a bad guess.
> The treated wood fence is new so it might be leaching some chemicals. We just replaced that section of fence last summer. I do not think there would be any living critters on it at the moment as its still the dead of winter here. Also, the dogs are spending very little time in the back yard right now due to the cold.
> 
> The plot thickens because both dogs were away. I was in Mexico and the other dog was at the breeder having puppies. She came home from the "maternity ward" with her spots.
> ...


Are they by any chance eating the same food, or the same treats? Or using the same shampoo? What about the same groomer? One time my groomer accidentally passed some stuff around. How puzzling.


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

They do have the same groomer--but I am pretty sure it is not that. The neighbour's dog is cured now and has had no relapses. Also, my dog spends a lot of time with the groomer's poodle (a half brother of my dog) with no passing of the scabs.

We just cleared up one set of scabs and now I fear a third set is forming. 

They start with a wet spot the size of a quarter. The spot is sticky to the touch and then crunchy. Originally I thought some sap dripped on his head. Shampooing does not take the spot away. Then the scabs form.

overall his skin is quite dry and flakey.

the scabs only appear on his head.

He is now taking the omega fatty acids supplements that I got from the vet. She still wants me to get a biopsy, but I am short on cash at the moment and will have to wait for a while to do it.

He is on a chicken free diet now--so obviously it was not the chicken.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Mr Babykins Jasper said:


> ......They start with a wet spot the size of a quarter. The spot is sticky to the touch and then crunchy. Originally I thought some sap dripped on his head. Shampooing does not take the spot away. Then the scabs form.......the scabs only appear on his head......
> He is now taking the omega fatty acids supplements that I got from the vet.
> 
> She still wants me to get a biopsy, but I am short on cash at the moment and will have to wait for a while to do it.


This is concerning. Have you explained that you can't afford it, and asked if there is any funding for something like this? Some places have access to assistance to help those who cannot pay.

Sending healing thoughts and energy....


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

Thanks.

It is not that I "can't pay". Its just that I do not have the cash right now. Last month was a 3 mortgage pmt month and I am moving to another province next month and my pay cheque is late. I will eventually be able to pay for the biopsy--just not right now. I just paid 200 for tests that came up nothing and the biopsy will cost 400.

I am also a bit wary of getting a biopsy to confirm that it is an allergy or an auto-immune issue (the same as an allergy I would think), but not know what it is he is allergic to.

The cost is high because they have to put him under to take the biopsy--but I wonder if full anesthetic is necessary. Why not just a fairly strong sedative I wonder? Or even a local anesthetic? I don't like the idea of putting him under just to grab a bit of skin. I dont say this because of the cost--but because of the danger of anesthetic.

Hot spot spray seems to help the scabs go away--although he sure hates when I spray him. The vet technician says they look like hot spots to her--but that doesn't really make sense either. Although, it is not impossible.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I am still not clear what possibilities a biopsy would show as you know it is not a tumor. Here is a link showing dog skin problems. Skin Problems in Dogs Slideshow: Mange, Allergic Dermatitis, Impetigo, Ringworm, More
Does anyone look familiar? I think hot spots are a real possibility, perhaps caused by a food allergy. I would also hesitate on the biopsy as there is a real possibility you will learn nothing and you have the risk of putting your dog under as well as the expense. It may be worth checking with another vet to see what they think. Have you contacted the breeder to see if she if familiar perhaps with some allergy issues in her line.


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

Thanks for that link--I would say that the hot spot pic looks the most like what he has--only his hair is much thicker. It starts with a wet spot. There also seems to be the dry flakey skin and possibly the seborreac dermatitis looks very similar.

The wet spot is sticky--sort of like a boil burst--but it never dries and then it goes stiff. If I wipe it with a tissue, I can often get blood stains. Big chunks of scabby flakes form and cement to his hair.

He has had his top knot shaved down twice now :-(.

I think the sores are kind of stinky--but its had to tell because we get used to dog smells when we are with them all the time.


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## Mr Babykins Jasper (Dec 8, 2012)

We have had a breakthrough--and it turns out that it is all my fault! :-(

I have been giving my baby too many baths and this has caused skin irritation which has led to hot spots and then to the scabby things.

I have been giving him a bath at least once per week--because he gets FILTHY and covered with mud and dog drool at the dog park.

They want me to only bathe him once every two months.

I feel so terrible.


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## Qarza (Feb 23, 2013)

Well finally! It is going to be hard for you to change your style but for the sake of your baby we won't mind if he is not so clean.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

How did you find out that this is the cause? That is the best news because it is so easily fixed. When he is muddy just rinse him off with plain water. I would make sure you use a very gentle shampoo when you bathe him. Since he has been having these skin issues I would continue any fish oil you are giving him and give him an occasional egg. You must be so relieved!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

First, DO NOT FEEL BADLY! You were only tyring to keep your poodle healthy and clean. Second, if the cause has indeed been found, that's a GOOD thing because the remedy appears to be easily at hand. (Just keep your hands off the shampoo! haha!) Third, I thought the neighbor's dog exhibited the scabbing as well, so I'm confused as to how that might fit the diagnosis of over zealous shampooing? Often, if you allow a muddy poodle to air dry you can just brush the dry dirt off and use a scent-free baby wipe to clean them up. (This is a frequent shortcut I employ.) Please DO NOT blame yourself for anything! Your efforts to keep Jasper clean and comfortable are laudable.:bathbaby:


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I missed the part about you feeling terrible. Absolutely no reason to. You were trying to keep your boy clean and many people have posted that they bathe their dog once a week. It may be that your boy has sensitive skin or the shampoo disagrees with him but you didn't know that. 

Chagall's Mom, I love how you always find the perfect emoticon.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

I bath my two dogs once a week too--I seem to need to because they play so hard every day, after a week it's necessary! I wonder if Jasper is allergic to some of the shampoos or sensitive to them? What if you got a really high-end shampoo? Anyway it would seem that maybe a sensitivity to shampoo runs in his family, but how nice that it's easy to fix and not a serious health issue! So happy for you.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

My dogs are bathed very frequently, too. I use a heavy conditioner after, rinse well and then will use some leave in conditioner. Maybe you bathed and overdried him? Bathing a poodle only every two months is going to be hard...


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