# What’s wrong with Doodles?



## scooterscout99

There are many threads on this topic already. Maybe do a search of PF first for the answer to your question.


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## Dechi

Besides what we think, there are very valid reason why the «*inventor*» of this mix regrets ever doing it. Go read about it, it’s very insightful.


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## lily cd re

I'll make it easy as to finding what the developer of the labradoodle now thinks. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/canine-corner/201404/designer-dog-maker-regrets-his-creation

Personally nearly all of the doodles I've ever met were crazy, nasty or anxious or all three to some level that I would not want to live with them. I know there are nice ones, but not in my experience very much. 

_ETA: I actually think most people here don't have disdain for these dogs so much as for the practice of producing them. We love our poodle mixes like Molly and Lucky.
_
I personally also really dislike messing up gene pools between breeds that already have their own genetic concerns. 

And golden and lab breeders and owners have as much vitriole on this topic as poodle people.


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## Mufar42

I'm just not big on mixing breeds and charging enormous $ for them. In their defense two personal friends have them and both from same breeder and they paid $3000. The breeder they bought them from was a golden retriever breeder and had the most beautiful goldnens I have ever seen. Both these doodles are nice, one is only 2 and still a bit wild, really not much different from my poodle. LOL The other was brought up with small children who did everything to the dog, the owner really no's nothing about dogs and turned out to be the best dog I have ever met. She brought him home at 8 weeks he went to the door and barked to go out. The kids really annoyed the heck out of him and he didn't care. Other than jumping when he was young he is a pussycat and they can take him anywhere. If one met him everyone would want a doodle. But he is the exception to the many I have met.


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## rkj__

With doodles, results may vary. Some are fantastic pets. Some have fantastic coats. But, the lack of consistency makes them harder to recommend. 


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## Mufar42

Exactly, I know of the one that I like n is good, and two others that I don't care for and are wild and all three shed. Though the owner of one says it doesn't but when I leave their house I have dog hair on me, lol


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## Moni

1. Unethical - money grabbing breeders. Why 3k - why?
2. Unstable temperaments. It is really hard to produce a good dog - that is the truth. If you don't have generations of breeding history behind it is so hard to evaluate for temperament and you create neurotic, anxious over excitable dogs.
3. Nightmare coats. All groomers I know shudder when they hear doodle - because these dogs go from shave down to shave down even with the most dedicated owners. This is what you get when you combine an insane shedding dog - Golden, with a curly haired actually hair breed that doesn't shed. For non shedding coat the hair has to be a very specific structure for this to work. Almost all doodles I know shed - profusely - only it gets stuck in their undercoat as well - and the hair texture is all wrong. Course on the wrong end - and soft underneath. This leads to them being itchy, somewhat irritated and insanely hard to maintain matt free.
4. While I am certainly not an "adopt-don't shop" nutter - I see zero justification to plop down 3k for these glorified mutts - these would truly be homes better served with a rescue probably.
5. The damage these dogs do to the Poodle breed. This breed is constantly being used to produce these dogs (in mostly unsavory situations) for making dogs that merely have the reputation of having the qualities that make Poodles such great dogs in the first place - so why mix?


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## Mufar42

Moni..Totally agree...I can't imagine spending $3000 for a mixed breed dog. I didn't pay that for my poodle . There is absolutely no reason a puppy should cost $3000. those are imo money grabbers. The 3 people I know that have the doodles, must have whatever fad is most popular at the moment. Though they will be good to their dogs forever.


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## lily cd re

And there are doodle breeders who take well more than 3K$ out of their customers' pockets. A quick search just now yielded one whose micro golden doodles were $3500 and I've seen them going for $5000. I also have known people who spent $4K on a sheepadoodle. And yeah I didn't spend 3K for either of my poodles.


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## Johanna

My opinion of doodles is that they are a scam - big money for a mongrel!


For all cross bred dogs, you almost never know which characteristics will be inherited. If there is not a distinct reason to cross breed, I don't think it should be done. Breeders have spent years and a ton of money developing each breed - trying to improve health and overall quality. All that goes down the tube when you cross breed.


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## zooeysmom

I put doodles in the same categories as pits--total crap shoot in terms of temperament, with some dogs engaging, smart, gentle, and quiet, and others wild, shy, aggressive, and/or reactive. Even if they are sweet, I find the labradoodles, goldendoodles, and bernedoodles don't compare to a purebred poodle in terms of grace and human connection.


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## glorybeecosta

Understand only I cannot keep quite. I have run in to people on the street, and a couple ofd friends who have mixed breeds with poodles. I have to ask why did you get a mixed breed instead a pure breed lab or poodle or whatever. They have said it is a purebred, my reply no they aren't. Needless to say that gets in to a discussion that never ends well, same with cockpoo, minipoo, totally against mixing breeds it and express my feelings


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## Mfmst

I feel sorry for conformation and performance breeders who work so hard to improve the breed and see crosses, sometimes selling for more. The popularity of crosses is a bonus for puppy millers and breeders which is a big concern of mine. If people have crosses, I hope they didn’t spend a lot of money buying the dog in the first place.


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## MollyMuiMa

Although I own a poodle mix, she is not a doodle. Molly is the result of an OOPS! breeding and I got lucky in that her 50% poodle side is dominant over the other 5 breeds found in her DNA! I find purposeful breeding of doodles to be bad on all the points mentioned and that people believe all the misinformation about them is ignorant.
Good Breeders of ALL purebreds work hard at perfecting their breeds. Lineages are chosen for each mating after much research and consideration of what that pairing will do to improve the breed, NOT what will bring the most money! 

P.S. Molly was offered to me free.........

PsPs I don't hate Doodles but I abhor the people breeding them!


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## lily cd re

Molly I think your story is the perfect understanding of all sides of the issues. If there is an oops litter then those puppies will be lovely personal companions, but they should be free or nearly so depending on whether they come from the oops "breeder" or perhaps a shelter or rescue group. Purposeful breeding for big bucks, no way.


Molly is a wonderful girl and we all think the world of her.


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## Mfmst

Yesterday, there was a letter to the editor in the NYT’s, complaining of the phrase “(fill in the blank with a politician’s name) being (fill in the corresponding name) ‘s poodle” as being disrespectful to the breed. I completely agree. Unfortunately, the paper added a photo of a golden doodle to the online letter. Grrrrr! The few doodles I have met have been sweethearts. We mainly see golden and lab crosses in Houston and I would much rather run into one of them off leash than a pit/cross!


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## emVee

While I cannot specifically answer your question, Mish17, I can tell you that (until we lost him to hermangiosarcoma in June) our incredible red 9-year-old standard, who went everywhere with me, elicited the question wherever we went: “what kind of doodle is (s)he?” It got so tiresome, that I took to answering either that he was a PooPoo, or a Poodoodle, having to add for those too dim to understand that he was a cross between a poodle and a poodle.

Many people, I think, end up with “doodles” of all stripes because they want all the many desirable breed traits of the poodle, but are put off by the mistaken notion of poodles being “frou-frou” dogs. As people who are owned by poodles all know, that couldn’t be further from the truth.


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## glorybeecosta

I on the other hand wanted the poodle because of there frou-frou, (toys) and I work at it to make them more frou- frou, than normal. I just think it is so cute. My former husband threw a fit when I wanted a poodle. However, that lasted a very short time, them he was with my husband out on the construction jobs. By then my husband was so protective over him, I did not have to worry


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## emVee

Okay, sorry glorybee. Frou-frou is okay if that’s what you want, but lots of other breeds can be made frou-frou as well (I’m looking at you, Yorkies). What I meant was that frou-frou-ness (or it it frou-frou-ity?) is not inherently a poodle trait.


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## rkj__

Doodle
Doodle
Doodle
Doodle
Poodle


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## zooeysmom

Took this video the other day at the dog park. Unfortunately, I missed the part with the doodle jumping all over Maizie and biting her neck. Maizie didn't flinch. What you see here is the doodle zooming after knocking over the water bowl. Then you see my calm purebred spoos and golden retriever... The breeds that were used to make the doodle. I don't have any problems with this particular doodle. She's a sweet, wild pup. As long as a dog is not aggressive to mine and doesn't bark incessantly in training class, it's all good. But, I think this video captures some of the differences between the dogs well.


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## Moni

zooeysmom said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHTaMB6WyTY
> 
> Took this video the other day at the dog park. Unfortunately, I missed the part with the doodle jumping all over Maizie and biting her neck. Maizie didn't flinch. What you see here is the doodle zooming after knocking over the water bowl. Then you see my calm purebred spoos and golden retriever... The breeds that were used to make the doodle. I don't have any problems with this particular doodle. She's a sweet, wild pup. As long as a dog is not aggressive to mine and doesn't bark incessantly in training class, it's all good. But, I think this video captures some of the differences between the dogs well.


I think their great undoing is that they look cute and their owners (mainly inexperienced ones) have no clue how to rein in these highly energetic and difficult to focus BIG dogs. So that behavior is what you get when you have a dog that has no outlet, no job and no guidance. What I have seen in obedience class is that even really good experienced dog trainers are having a hard time to get them to react to very clear signals. The same methods and signals that work on Poodles. Border Collies any super smart dog within two or three repetitions are a fail with these guys. I have seen a top notch trainer try to teach a doodle a reliable sit (for a whole hour) it was so-so - she really tried and pulled all the stops. It really felt like the smarts just weren't there. Like he did understand his butt should go down but he couldn't maintain it! I have owned a less than trainable dog before (English pointer from show lines - an actual descendant of a WKC BIS winner and Sensation - the logo of Westminster) but boy he was not the sharpest tool in the shed. But his energy was harnessable (with a lot of work on my part) he was an excellent tracking dog and he was able to follow calming signals and respond to off time. He was a very nice dog for all his life (it took him about 30 seconds to execute a sit - but he would do it in the end). With Doodles I just have found that Goldendoodles cannot concentrate on any one task and are all over the place (for life) - all dogs have this to a point but it usually goes away after puppyhood. I wonder if there is a connection with the cute - puppy like exterior and the intelligence maturity levels these dogs achieve. Can only imagine what herding dog - poodle mix is like!


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## doditwo

*What’s wrong with Doodles?*

“Is that a real poodle?!” It’s one of the most common questions I get when out walking Mimi. Kinda sad.
The money spent by the public in purchasing designer doodles would be better invested in a reputable poodle breeder who’s dedicated to preserving the breed for future generations long after the current fad expires.








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## Streetcar

I clearly recall a very unruly Poodle mix (I won't call them *oodles) who almost literally knocked me off my feet many times at a local dog park. She was groomed in a Continental, but her weight was super heavy, and her attention came with jumping up on people uninvited. That's when she almost knocked me down - often, while owners laughed. One of the reasons we stopped going. If one wants a Poodle, then freaking GET a Poodle, not a mixed breed one CLIPs into an imitation.

With respect, "*oodles" are not a breed, are definitely not a TYPE, nor a pattern, nor inherently cute, nor deserving of expectation of anything. This comes from someone who has joyfully owned a dog that was two breeds mixed together (not by any person's action). Btw, this is also from someone who followed and respects the LUA Dals and that process. From this layperson's perspective, there is no Poodle comparison.


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## Newport

I met and fell in love with a poodle mix at the humane society (Navy). The longer we had him, the more I loved him. Navy's groomer had a mini pure bred poodle, and through that connection I realized what a poodle-y temperament Navy has. The lightbulb went off over my head, and I realized that poodles are the breed for me. I hope someday to have a beautiful purebred toy poodle. I share this to show that it can take time and exposure for people to figure out their best relationship to Dogs, which includes breed choice and training effort.

I'm glad this poster asked her question, and that PF takes the time to answer it (again). It shows people giving thought to their dog relationships, something that should always be encouraged. There are lots of people out there that would love a purebred poodle and just don't know it yet


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## Mufar42

My neighbor and her daughter both have doodles. We have a local breeder who charges an arm & a leg to purchase one. They use to sell golden retrievers, and very nice one to both, but they got on the doodle train and people buy them like crazy around here. I don't know why they just don't get a poodle? I think regarding behavior a lot has to do with the owner, I don't necessarily thing the dog doesn't learn, I think many are just not taught. They are cute and many families treat them like they will be cute little toy dogs, (some people think you don't have to train toys because of their size) but the doodle grows into a big heavy dog and suddenly its not cute anymore. I've heard many end up in rescue but frankly I haven't seen too many in our local rescues.


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## Charlie's Person

doditwo said:


> “Is that a real poodle?!” It’s one of the most common questions I get when out walking Mimi. Kinda sad.
> The money spent by the public in purchasing designer doodles would be better invested in a reputable poodle breeder who’s dedicated to preserving the breed for future generations long after the current fad expires.
> 
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> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I get that too. I always welcome the interest and say " this is the rootstock purebred poodle, with natural ears and tail". Everyone is in awe of my beautiful, regal boy. He is unbelievably calm. 

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