# Raw food questions



## Alika (May 17, 2016)

Hello,

So I have no intention of feeding a diet bad entirely of raw food. I love the idea, but it's outside the range of what I can afford. However I do sometimes have wild game in my freezer that amounts to more than my family can eat and I was thinking it would be cool to be able to give some to Karma once in awhile. So I have a few questions:

1. I've read that people feed chicken bones but I'd always been told that was bad. Is out cooked vs raw that makes a difference?

2. We nearly always have fish. Usually just trout and salmon but occasionally burbot. How do you feed fish? Is there any kind I should avoid? We have to limit our diet on fish because of high mercury so I assume these are considerations for a dog as well?

3. Deer/elk/antelope: any special considerations? Can she have antlers/horns/hooves or are they consisted bad now?

4. Thoughts on rabbit? Don you feed it with the bones?

5. How consistent does the meat oat of her diet have to be to avoid digestive problems? Can I give her raw meat here and there or do I need a more consistent schedule?

6. How should I start? Right now I have fish and rabbit. My spoo is 10 weeks old. She's still on Kirkland's from the breeder but when that bag starts getting low we will be converting her to TOTW (no Costco around here). I'm hesitant to give her anything but kibble until she's solid on her new food. Is that about right? What would you do?

Thanks and sorry for so many questions.


----------



## Malasarus (Apr 4, 2016)

I am very new to raw so I can't help you with most of these questions but I do want to clear up about the chicken bones. Cooked bones of any type can splinter and puncture a dog's gut. Raw bones do not, they are much more pliable. Cooked chicken bones are extremely dangerous.


----------



## Alika (May 17, 2016)

Thank you! So it's ok to feed the bones as long as they are raw? I have to admit that seems scary to me


----------



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Well, first, yes raw chicken is good, bones and all, as chicken bones are soft and pliable when raw, but never never feed cooked as they are apt to splinter!

Raw fish is good too as long as it it frozen for at least 24-48 hours to kill any parasites...also wild caught is best as farm raised may be full of growth hormones.
Fish is also the only meat that can also be fed cooked, bones and all, as the bones stay soft even after cooking. I have no idea about mercury though!
As far as deer elk antelope I have little knowledge, but their are plenty of people who raw feed these meats. I have heard warnings about prion disease though....

Raw rabbit with bones are ok......but if you are talking wild &'fresh' be aware of parasites and perhaps freeze it first!

I feed 1/2 raw 1/2 kibble.... with the A.M. meal being raw and a measured amount of kibble put in her bowl to free feed as she self regulates nicely.

I have heard that to start you should use chicken as it is easily digested. You may want to watch her closely to see if she is a good chewer and not a gulper......if she is a gulper you'll need to be really careful!! Also a very young pup is teething and usually loves to chew on a nice meaty bone like a rib! LOL! 

It is good to be consistent, but even feeding raw just a few times a week is beneficial, especially for keeping plaque and tartar to a minimum!


----------



## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Alika said:


> 1. I've read that people feed chicken bones but I'd always been told that was bad. Is out cooked vs raw that makes a difference?


As said above, raw chicken bones are fine. Never feed cooked chicken bones.



Alika said:


> 2. We nearly always have fish. Usually just trout and salmon but occasionally burbot. How do you feed fish? Is there any kind I should avoid? We have to limit our diet on fish because of high mercury so I assume these are considerations for a dog as well?


See MollyMuiMa above.



Alika said:


> 3. Deer/elk/antelope: any special considerations? Can she have antlers/horns/hooves or are they consisted bad now?


We fed deer. I just froze it for a few weeks first to kill any parasites. Antlers, hornes, and hooves are great to chew on. In fact, people pay a lot of money for antlers.



Alika said:


> 4. Thoughts on rabbit? Don you feed it with the bones?


Adding on to MollyMuiMa. Not all dogs like rabbit. You might have to feed smaller pieces to get your dog used to it.



Alika said:


> 5. How consistent does the meat oat of her diet have to be to avoid digestive problems? Can I give her raw meat here and there or do I need a more consistent schedule?


How often is "here and there?" Twice a year or twice a week? If you're only going to give her a raw meal a few times per year, then I'd stick to giving her a raw meaty bone - something to chew on - and not give a full meal. But a few times per week is fine.



Alika said:


> 6. How should I start? Right now I have fish and rabbit. My spoo is 10 weeks old. She's still on Kirkland's from the breeder but when that bag starts getting low we will be converting her to TOTW (no Costco around here). I'm hesitant to give her anything but kibble until she's solid on her new food. Is that about right? What would you do?


Whichever way you're comfortable with. In my experience, puppies handle change easier than adult dogs, but there are always exceptions. If you want to switch to TOTW first, then add in a few raw meals, that's ok. If you want to start now giving her a raw meal, that's even better.


----------



## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

As I recall, most raw fish is safe, but salmon should always be cooked. Salmon can be infested with a kind of parasite that might carry a bacteria very dangerous to dogs. I've even read that you should dispose of wrappings for fresh salmon in a way that your dog can't get to it.


----------



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

The best way to start out is to start with one protein for a week or so to make sure there are no sensitivities or allergies to it. If you feed a lot of different meats in succession and your pup has a problem with one, you won't know which one. So, usually it's is advised to start with one...make sure there's no issue, then start with another one for a week or so, then another. I wouldn't go too long before starting with organ meat....after you're sure the chicken is well tolerated, a 4 or 5 days with a tiny bit of liver, then start another organ. Play it by ear...see how your dog does with one thing before adding the next. I just don't recommend waiting more than a week or two to introduce organ meat. (some things I've read do) So you might start with chicken for a week, then chicken and organ for a week. Then try something like beef with a different organ for a week...see how your dog does. Then add another protein etc. I recommend feeding a balanced raw food diet regularly, not just some of the time. And going cold turkey.

Some people make the meals balance over time and they might not give organ but once a week. I recommend, since it can cause digestive upset until they're use to it, feeding a balanced meal every day. So, that's *10% bone, 80% muscle meat, 10% organ (1/2 of which is liver and the other 1/2 another type of organ meat). *This way your dog may avoid diarrhea from having a week's worth of organ meat all at once. It is something that causes looser stools. In fact, if your dog is constipated, add more organ and muscle meat next time and a little less bone. If your dog's stool is too loose, reduce those things a tad and maybe give a little more bone. 

My preference is to use hunks of muscle meat rather than ground. I like my dogs to have to work hard to get their food...it strengthens their jaw muscles and they get more chewing satisfaction...that resembles closer their natural feeding instincts.

My preference is also to stay away from commercial foods or supplements/additives as much as possible. (I do keep one bag of pre made raw in case my ex is babysitting for a few days when I have to go out of town. It makes it easier for him) If they're getting a good, balanced diet they shouldn't need anything else. To make sure they're getting ample omegas, I do feed sardine/anchovy oil...one squirt from a pump bottle I ordered from Hare Today, Gone Tomorrow, a good place to get stuff online. 

From that online store, I also purchase fresh/frozen sardines. I feed those once or twice a week, no more. On those days, I skip the fish oil. Sardines or Mackerel are fine. But I don't feed any salmon. It's just not necessary. The Sardines I'm feeding exclusively now...stopped buying mackerel. I like them because they have a very short life span and don't have much time to absorb a lot of icky stuff. Iodine is an important element, of course, so that's why I feed fresh fish once or twice a week. I do not feed more than that because there's an enzyme in some plants and the raw flesh and viscera of certain fish. When eaten, this enzyme, thiaminase splits thamine (vitamin B1), an essential compound in energy metabolism and render it inactive. Some people just do the fish oil and that's okay. But I like to rely more on whole, fresh foods to take care of most of my dogs' nutritional needs. 

For bones, be sure to choose bones that are in line with your dog's mouth and size. Stay clear of weight bearing bones of heavy animals. They're just too hard and dense and they can cause tooth breakage. With my tiny dogs, they mostly eat chicken bones and very small ones or parts of a bone because I'm feeding bones every day. They also can handle rabbit bones, duck and of course, fish and a few other things. If you feed a bone every few days or once a week, you can feed a bigger bone. I switched from trying to balance over time to balancing every meal just because my dogs do better that way. They're bowel movements are more consistent this way. But you can experiment. Lots of people balance over a week's time and their dogs do fine. 

Some people feed vegetables and/or fruits. Some even feed grain. I do not. After a lot of study on this, I am satisfied that dogs do not need carbs at all and in fact, they can make it harder on the pancreas to try to metabolize them. Grain seems to be a culprit in many maladies, from allergies to skin issues, to diabetes because it turns to sugar and causes glucose spikes and crashes. Dogs get their energy from meat and fat. But of course, that's personal preference. You can do your own checking into it. You can also do searches on here for other threads about feeding. 

Good luck. I think if you shop carefully, you'll find that feeding a good raw food diet doesn't have to cost a lot. In fact, in many, many cases, it's really less than a premium dog food. I went cold turkey and I've seen some remarkable changes in the health of my 14 year old dog and my young Poodles too. I don't know how to adjust my recommendations to an occasional raw diet. Just be sure it's balanced and the ratios of calcium and phosphorus are right. 

As far as freezing food, I do this with fish and the other food for storage convenience. However, not all food has parasites and I've often fed prior to freezing. When you think about it, coyotes and other wild canines don't freeze their prey first. If they all had deadly parasites, they wouldn't have evolved. So, I'm not worried about those things except in some fish. I use to be, but not anymore after more reading. Don't ever feed intestines. 

Oh, and I feed eggs too. They're not necessary but very healthy. I do not feed the shells, even of organic if they're from the store because of the fact that they put mineral oil on the eggs and that's a petroleum product. So, I just crack a raw egg for them over their food a few days a week or feed separately. You can also boil the shells for 20-30 minutes, then dry and run them through a food processor or blender and make a powder. You can feed a pinch if you need some extra calcium for some reason. I use to use the shells for my old dog who can't seem to chew bones. But then I started grinding real bones up for him...more nutritious. 

The suggestion to check out the prey model raw forum is, imo a good one. 

Good luck. Keep us posted.


----------



## Alika (May 17, 2016)

Thank you for all of the suggestions!

I'll see what I can find out about salmon, thanks for that heads up. We prefer the salmon to the trout so if we have it we tend to eat it, but sometimes we do get overstocked. Good to know it probably need to be cooked (and that, unlike other animals, cooked fish bones are ok).

That gives me a lot to think about. Thanks again!


----------



## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

Alika said:


> Hello,
> 
> So I have no intention of feeding a diet bad entirely of raw food. I love the idea, but it's outside the range of what I can afford. However I do sometimes have wild game in my freezer that amounts to more than my family can eat and I was thinking it would be cool to be able to give some to Karma once in awhile. So I have a few questions:b
> 
> ...


See my answers in blue above.


----------



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Have a re-write on the feeding of raw salmon!! Salmon poisoning is deadly but can be avoided by making sure you deep freeze it for a minimum of 7 days before feeding it...... It's the Northwest salmon from San Francisco all the way to the coast of Alaska that are the culprits!!! Ya learn something every day!!!!!


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

My two toys LOVE rabbit. Not that I give it to them - Tilly-cat does. Whole, fur, fleas, and all, and usually all I find in the morning is a scrap of fluff and the green wobbly bit... 

Probably better to freeze for a few weeks for safety, though, and to remove the skin until he is more used to the idea.


----------



## Alika (May 17, 2016)

Thank you. I usually freeze, anyway, and can't imagine feeding anything fresh just because freezing is such a habit. But it's good to get these things into my head because you never know what other ideas might pop into it before the food hits the freezer ?


----------



## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

MollyMuiMa said:


> Have a re-write on the feeding of raw salmon!! Salmon poisoning is deadly but can be avoided by making sure you deep freeze it for a minimum of 7 days before feeding it...... It's the Northwest salmon from San Francisco all the way to the coast of Alaska that are the culprits!!! Ya learn something every day!!!!!


I've been told that the fluke that carries the parasite that causes Salmon Poisoning is not reliably killed by freezing at temperatures that are generally achieved by a home freezer. I've read in some places that it is, and some places that it isn't. I personally just don't feed it. Considering the risk is death, I just don't think it's worth it.


----------

