# Red Flags?



## 12489 (Apr 2, 2013)

Hi all, 

I hope that people on here can help me. I am trying to feel comfortable with the idea of possibly going with a breeder who is not local for my search for the prefect brown spoo. I have only found two local breeders, with a huge price difference among them. Red flag? What is an expected reasonable price for a healthy, pet quality spoo from a reputable, honest breeder? I'm not interested in hearing buzz words like "chocolate" to describe color (red flag) or throw out a word like "master breeder" which I have never heard of, I am more interested in proper health testing and having above all a great temperament. I want a breeder to find a puppy that describes what I might be looking for and what she thinks will fit best with my ultimate goals as a dog owner. Because I am looking for a spoo that would make a great therapy dog the temperament is the most important part. I would love to find a great breeder of brown standard that can help me find a puppy. I am just concerned about who to trust as well as what is a reasonable amount to pay. The cost of what I want is worth it but only if I know I am getting what I am paying for. 

This last breeder told be that she is not the actual breeder not has breeders in other parts of the country, but there is absolutely no communication with the actual breeder just her. Red flag? Only pictures and video? 1800 plus shipping? Very vague on testing results and no results to offer. Red flag? She questions the validity of test results. Red flag? Made a huge point about her following on Facebook but very few actual comments. Red flag? Talked about how she had to turn a famous person down because of person situation. Unimpressed but that move. Red flag? 

I have been very blessed to never have had dogs with any major health issues including my current dog, but this is not just any kind of a breed, this is the poodle, and is very different. And I want to do the best I can to find the right dog. 

Can y'all help me with these red flags? 

Thanks 

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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

i don't have advice about pricing - many others on pf will. and you will probably have to be more specific about your location so folks can try to point you to someone they trust in your area - if one exists. if not, at least they will try to point you to someone they trust to ship, if needed.

but i would say, you have good radar. definitely red flags. everyone here will tell you to try to meet the breeder and the dam beforehand. it's not always possible, of course, but anyone playing at an intermediary who is also pooh-poohing health testing, etc., is probably a scammer likely to just take your money and walk away.


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## 12489 (Apr 2, 2013)

I live in Colorado, and I have one local resource, that I have in mind, but I would like an additional option to talk to and I may have to go outside of Colorado to do it so meeting the breeder / dam may not be an option. Horrible byb's go as low as 700 for spoos and as high as 1500 at a local puppy mill operation that loves to cross everything with poodles. So finding only a true reputable brown spoo breeder is not so easy. 

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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

I'd consider most of the things you listed to be red flags. 

The turning down a famous person - on the one hand, it shows she won't sell to just anyone even the rich and famous, on the other, why mention it? Why not just say you place puppies in the most appropriate homes.

The health testing comment depends on context. Certain tests are definitive - for example, dogs are clear, carriers, or affected for NEwS (although I don't believe affected dogs live much longer than a few weeks). Other tests, like SA, can give insight into the current status, but aren't necessarily predictive. Many (most?) of those types of tests are repeated before breeding.

I haven't read your previous posts, so I apologize for suggesting things you've already tried. Have you contacted the breeder referral person for the poodle club for your country or local area? 

Have you found breeders outside your area who are what you're looking for? They would likely be able to help you find someone closer. When I was looking for for a spoo, I spoke with a great breeder on the other side of the country who knew and recommended Katie's breeder.

Local means different things to different people. There is a poodle breeder down the street from me - that's super local. Katie's breeder is about 90 minutes away - still local, to me. I considered other breeders 4-6 hours away - not local, but close enough to drive to with an overnight stay.

The price you mentioned seems reasonable for a health tested, titled, responsibly bred poodle. I would not pay that much for anything less.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

there are a number of breeders who actually participate at pf. most usually try to be helpful. i tend to cruise some of the internet sites used to advertise, such as poodlesonline, poodlebreeders, etc. of course anyone can advertise. but it's a way to get a look at some of the dogs, read about health testing, standards, etc. then if you find someone you think is a possibility, you can ask here whether anyone has had personal experience with the breeder. if you wait a bit, though, some of the more experienced owners here will probably respond to your post. (i'm only a prospective toy poodle owner - i like to do my ground work first, so that's why i'm at pf.)


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Myfluffyjoia said:


> I live in Colorado, and I have one local resource, that I have in mind, but I would like an additional option to talk to


Since you're in Colorado, I suggest you contact Carol Brand of Beauvoir Poodles. She's a breeder I really think can be relied on to help guide you. Good luck with your poodle search!:clover:
http://www.beauvoirpoodles.com/index.html


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I cannot help you with your Spoo research since I am more into Toys. I also live on the East coast. Here in NC TINTLET- Gloria, works her Spoos in various activities, few litters, heath testing & extremely knowledgeable. I don't think there would be harm in emailing & asking her for references. On here NOLA might have some ideas as well.

Anyone who Poo Poor heath testing STAY AWAY from. Yes, some testing can be objective but is still a good tool. Other tests are definitive so no arguing about those. Spoos are riddled with health issues I wouldn't plunk down any money unless health testing was done. Only exception are Rescues where we take a risk & hope for the best. For me that is what I did. $350 for a Rescue that was neutered, UTD on Vaccines & personality tested. So far so good.

Meet the Dam if possible, stud might have been used out of state or AI might have been done. Decide what your traveling radius is. Go & visit, what one states in writing is not necessarily true. You are on the right track & you are reading red flags very well.


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## Jacknic (Sep 14, 2010)

I have a current litter that has brown standard puppies and also another due this week that I am expecting to have browns. I have pedigrees and links to health testing on my website with lots of pictures on my facebook page and I also give a special PF discount. Just google my avatar name.
You can also ask Gloria --Tintlet and Tabatha --NOLA about me I think I will get a two thumbs up.


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

RUN! The fact there is a middleman and you will never get to meet or communicate with the breeders confirms that these puppies come from a PUPPY MILL.
A reputable breeder will want to screen their potential puppy parents on their own, would prefer to meet face to face if possible. Would happily share straight forward that their puppies are health tested and all that jazz. 
There are many other red flags you listed but this is a dead set RUN!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

The nice thing about some of the ad sites is they've done some of the work for you. Places like poodlesonline will not allow advertisers without proof of some health testing. You will need to find out which sites are like that, and then do your research. I also give a thumbs up to Jacknic.


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