# The dangers of grain-free diets for dogs



## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

I have read, studied a lot about this issue and switched Poppy a little over 2 months ago. I went with Purina Pro Plan Sport and she LOVES IT! 

I tried transitioning her slowly but she spit out her old food and ate only the Purina so after a couple of days of cleaning up all the spit out food I just gave her the new food. She did just fine with the change.

Another bonus is that this food is a lot less expensive than her previous food.

I wish you well with your change and hope it goes smoothly.

Cathy and Poppy


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Viking Queen said:


> I have read, studied a lot about this issue and switched Poppy a little over 2 months ago. I went with Purina Pro Plan Sport and she LOVES IT!
> 
> I tried transitioning her slowly but she spit out her old food and ate only the Purina so after a couple of days of cleaning up all the spit out food I just gave her the new food. She did just fine with the change.
> 
> ...


I’m glad it went well for you and Poppy ! I just have to find a food for sensitive stomachs with grains. I hope they make them.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

The FDA update as of Feb........https://www.fda.gov/animalveterinary/resourcesforyou/animalhealthliteracy/ucm616279.htm


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

MollyMuiMa said:


> The FDA update as of Feb........https://www.fda.gov/animalveterinary/resourcesforyou/animalhealthliteracy/ucm616279.htm


Thanks Molly.

This is more complex than it looks. Any diet can be responsible for DCM, even home cooked. The FDA has no idea yet what causes it.

Here is an important paragraph from Molly’s article :

It’s important to note that the reports include dogs that have eaten grain-free and grain containing foods, and also include vegetarian or vegan formulations. They also include all forms of diets: kibble, canned, raw and home-cooked. This is why we do not think these cases can be explained simply by whether or not they contain grains, or by brand or manufacturer.

To put this issue into proper context, the American Veterinary Medical Association estimates that there are 77 million pet dogs in the United States. As of November 30, 2018, the FDA has received reports about 325 dogs diagnosed with DCM suspected to be linked to diet. Tens of millions of dogs have been eating dog food without developing DCM. If you are concerned about the diet you are currently feeding your dog, FDA recommends consulting with your veterinarian or a veterinary nutritionist to discuss the best and safest diet for your dog.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Dechi said:


> I’m glad it went well for you and Poppy ! I just have to find a food for sensitive stomachs with grains. I hope they make them.


They do, Dechi! This is what Maizie's breeder feeds: https://www.proplan.com/dogs/products/focus-adult-sensitive-skin-stomach-salmon-rice-formula


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Dechi said:


> I’m glad it went well for you and Poppy ! I just have to find a food for sensitive stomachs with grains. I hope they make them.


Purina Pro Plan makes one for sensitive skin and stomachs and it is salmon based. I have heard of a lot of good results on that one. Royal Canin also makes some nice varieties for sensitive stomachs.

Best of luck.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

zooeysmom said:


> They do, Dechi! This is what Maizie's breeder feeds: https://www.proplan.com/dogs/products/focus-adult-sensitive-skin-stomach-salmon-rice-formula


Yup! That's the one I hear such good things about!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

zooeysmom said:


> They do, Dechi! This is what Maizie's breeder feeds: https://www.proplan.com/dogs/products/focus-adult-sensitive-skin-stomach-salmon-rice-formula


Thanks ! Beckie and Merlin already est salmon so this would be nice. And there doesn’t seem to be any potatoes or legumes in it, which is what I want.

I know my store has it so I’ll call tomorrow to see if they have any samples.


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## TERIN (Mar 27, 2019)

Hi Dechi, did you put Beckie & Merlin on Pro plan Salmon, do they like it,

How long did it take your dogs to accept the new food


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## RSH (Feb 5, 2019)

I read about that last fall, and switched my dogs to Royal Canin. The chihuahua was having struvite crystals and needed to go on the RC urinary prescription formula, and that happened at about the same time that the report came out.

He improved enormously on the RC food-I was feeding him a super premium grain free food sourced from Canada previously, and it was very obvious to me once we switched that he wasn't getting something in his diet that he needed with that previous food. 

He used to have a copious amount of what I call "eye boogers" and tear staining. Once I switched him to Royal Canin, it *completely* went away-it was remarkable. He also has more energy and is definitely his old self again.


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## TERIN (Mar 27, 2019)

RSH was your Chihuahua eating Orijen, I just picked up some Orijen for my girls, it recently came to Australia & looked good so I'm trying a small bag

Both girls love the tiny bit I've given them so far


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## RSH (Feb 5, 2019)

It was Acana


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

I am so confused I don't know what to do! My girls (Callie -8, Molly - 4) have been on grain free all their lives. First Merrick until they changed all the recipes! Then Wellness. They hate TOW and Molly throws up the canned food. I thought I had found the perfect food in Zignature - alternating Pork, Turkey, Duck and Whitefish (lamb doesn't agree with Molly) They get 1/3 C kibble in the am, and evening 1/4 can food and 1/4 kibble, plus an occasional veggie or chopped chicken or a little cooked burger. For the first time Molly is not having pudding poops a couple times a week.
So now this food is dangerous for them? I looked at the ingredients for Royal Canin for poodles- first ingredient is CORN! I can't do that!! What about Purina Pro Plan? Is it the same? 
I am so confused. Will talk to my vet tomorrow when Callie goes for her checkup and report what he says.
What is everyone else feeding now?
Its not like the girls don't get grain in their biscuits and they get eggs, but I guess that isn't what these articles are talking about.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

SusanG said:


> I am so confused I don't know what to do! My girls (Callie -8, Molly - 4) have been on grain free all their lives. First Merrick until they changed all the recipes! Then Wellness. They hate TOW and Molly throws up the canned food. I thought I had found the perfect food in Zignature - alternating Pork, Turkey, Duck and Whitefish (lamb doesn't agree with Molly) They get 1/3 C kibble in the am, and evening 1/4 can food and 1/4 kibble, plus an occasional veggie or chopped chicken or a little cooked burger. For the first time Molly is not having pudding poops a couple times a week.
> So now this food is dangerous for them? I looked at the ingredients for Royal Canin for poodles- first ingredient is CORN! I can't do that!! What about Purina Pro Plan? Is it the same?
> I am so confused. Will talk to my vet tomorrow when Callie goes for her checkup and report what he says.
> What is everyone else feeding now?
> Its not like the girls don't get grain in their biscuits and they get eggs, but I guess that isn't what these articles are talking about.


I never liked grain free but I did buy it because everyone seemed to be so amazed by it.

I’m almost finished switching mine to Pro plan sensitive. I went very slow, more than 4 weeks, and so far so good.

Remember the old days when grain free didn’t exist and dogs lived long lives without problems ? There must be a reason.


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

Yes, I got my first poodle in 1965. We fed her Kal Kan and Alpo, no kibble and she 
lived to 15 1/2 years. She was healthy her whole life.


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

Not all dogs have a problem with grain free. If you are really worried you can get a blood test and check taurine levels. If levels are good and your dogs have been eating grain free long term then your dogs don't have a problem with that diet.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

SusanG said:


> I am so confused I don't know what to do! My girls (Callie -8, Molly - 4) have been on grain free all their lives. First Merrick until they changed all the recipes! Then Wellness. They hate TOW and Molly throws up the canned food. I thought I had found the perfect food in Zignature - alternating Pork, Turkey, Duck and Whitefish (lamb doesn't agree with Molly) They get 1/3 C kibble in the am, and evening 1/4 can food and 1/4 kibble, plus an occasional veggie or chopped chicken or a little cooked burger. For the first time Molly is not having pudding poops a couple times a week.
> So now this food is dangerous for them? I looked at the ingredients for Royal Canin for poodles- first ingredient is CORN! I can't do that!! What about Purina Pro Plan? Is it the same?
> I am so confused. Will talk to my vet tomorrow when Callie goes for her checkup and report what he says.
> What is everyone else feeding now?
> Its not like the girls don't get grain in their biscuits and they get eggs, but I guess that isn't what these articles are talking about.


Corn in food is GOOD! This article might help you feel better about the corn in foods for our pets. The article Debunks myths surrounding corn.

https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/De...dkE7SnbUOBADF3bS92Fkcm_GVZXobVBffsk18XnKN4bhA


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

reraven123 said:


> Not all dogs have a problem with grain free. If you are really worried you can get a blood test and check taurine levels. If levels are good and your dogs have been eating grain free long term then your dogs don't have a problem with that diet.


Some dogs who have developed food related DCM have normal taurine levels so a blood test for taurine is not the best indicator of a healthy dog. According to veterinary cardiologists, The ONLY way to determine if a dog has DCM is to have an echocardiogram. There often are no symptoms of the disease, silent killer, until the dog either goes to sleep and never wakes up, or just drops dead. 

Cardiologists are advising owners to not feed any grain free formulas, regardless of the manufacturer, at this time.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

SusanG said:


> Yes, I got my first poodle in 1965. We fed her Kal Kan and Alpo, no kibble and she
> lived to 15 1/2 years. She was healthy her whole life.


Yup! We fed good old Purina Dog Chow from 1954 until 2001. We always had very healthy dogs who lived very long lives. I am back with Purina.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Dechi said:


> I never liked grain free but I did buy it because everyone seemed to be so amazed by it.
> 
> I’m almost finished switching mine to Pro plan sensitive. I went very slow, more than 4 weeks, and so far so good.
> 
> Remember the old days when grain free didn’t exist and dogs lived long lives without problems ? There must be a reason.


So glad to hear that the switch to PPP Sensitive Skin and Stomach has gone well. I hear lots of good things about that formula.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Viking Queen said:


> Corn in food is GOOD! This article might help you feel better about the corn in foods for our pets. The article Debunks myths surrounding corn.
> 
> https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/De...dkE7SnbUOBADF3bS92Fkcm_GVZXobVBffsk18XnKN4bhA


I can’t see this article. Can you paste it here ?


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

When I took Miracle to her first vet appointment last year the vet asked what I was feeding her. I started her on Taste of the Wild (grain free), because that's what Jasper eats. The veterinary practice actually sells Royal Canin, but my vet told me to keep my dog on TOTW because she claimed it's actually a higher quality food as compared to Royal Canin. Miracle is due for her annual appointment soon....I am going to bring this topic up and see what the vet says.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

Viking Queen said:


> Cardiologists are advising owners to not feed any grain free formulas, regardless of the manufacturer, at this time.


Is there a specific research article that cites this? Thanks.


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## TERIN (Mar 27, 2019)

Viking Queen I thought dogs were allergic to corn,
I would love to read that article


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

TERIN said:


> Viking Queen I thought dogs were allergic to corn,
> I would love to read that article


Here you go....maybe this link works

https://taurinedcm.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Debunking-Myths-around-Corn-Gluten-Meal_FINAL.pdf


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Dogs4Life said:


> Is there a specific research article that cites this? Thanks.


There are dozens of articles and research papers published on a facebook group called Taurine-deficient Dialeted Cardiomyopathy

If you join that group there is a section called UNITS where you can read research by UCDavis Cardiologist Dr. Joshua Stern also there are research papers published by Dr Lisa Freeman who is a veterinary nutritionist, and there are published papers by Tufts University as well. I am unable to share directly from that group.

You could go to this link, as I believe most of the published research is there as well. https://taurinedcm.org

I spent about a month reading and absorbing all the information, then I made the switch to Purina Pro Plan for Poppy.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Here is a link to Dr. Lisa Freeman's article. Dr. Freeman is from Tuft's University

A broken heart: Risk of heart disease in boutique or grain-free diets and exotic ingredients – Clinical Nutrition Service at Cummings School


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Another great article by Dr. Joshua Stern

https://truthaboutpetfood.com/is-it-peas-processing-or-a-combination/


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Viking Queen said:


> Here you go....maybe this link works
> 
> https://taurinedcm.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Debunking-Myths-around-Corn-Gluten-Meal_FINAL.pdf


Yes, thank you, very interesting !


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Well, apparently, after reading those articles and the links found within, taurine deficiency is only partly associated with the increase in DCM. It seems that the defiency is mostly found in certain breeds, such as GR. But the DCM is being seen more and more in dogs and they don't have a taurine deficiency. So, apparently that's not the whole story. 

It looks like it may well be the fact that they're using in many foods too much pea protein and legumes and not enough meat. That's like the filler of choice...not grain, not enough meat either way. They're cheaping out on meat, as we all know already. So I am looking at foods (now when I'm feeding commercial. Yuk) that don't even list peas or legumes, even though a little is okay. I'm looking for meat, meat and more meat. 85-95% protein from.......................................................................you guessed it. MEAT! lol. 

By products are apparently just fine. I didn't know what bi products exactly entailed. Not entrails. But my goodness...some good stuff! https://www.jhvet.com/pet-food-labels.pml 



> A common myth is that meat by-products are dangerous and not wholesome for pets to eat. According to AAFCO meat in pet food is defined as the clean flesh derived from slaughtered mammals, and is limited to that part of the striate muscle which is skeletal or that which is found in the tongue, in the diaphragm, in the heart, or in the esophagus; with or without the accompanying and overlying fat and the portions of the skin, sinew, nerve and blood vessels which normally accompany the flesh. Meat by-products are the clean parts, other than meat, derived from slaughtered mammals. It includes, but is not limited to, lungs, spleen, kidneys, brain, livers, blood, bone, partially defatted low temperature fatty tissue, and stomachs and intestines freed of their contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth and hoofs. Animals are meat eaters and must eat more than just muscle meat to survive. Just watch any wild animal take down prey and you will notice that the choice part of the prey to eat is the abdominal organs not the leg meat.


I kind of wish it did include some hair because that acts as fiber. They don't set out to eat hair purposely but when hunting and taking down prey, they wind up with some of the hair and that should be good for digestion. Oh well.

Dogs don't seem to get celiac disease so gluten free is only helpful for allergies or dogs that have some special need...a very low percentage. (that goes for people too.) Gluten, otherwise is good for you. I hate how the food manufacturers take some gimmick and run with it...bragging about their gluten free food. It doesn't matter for 99% of humans. And there's some good protein in it apparently.

I have a love/hate relationship with the idea of grain in dog food. I don't think it's evil and it may help with digestibility and some other things. HOWEVER, archaeological records show that arthritis didn't exist in humans or animals prior to the agricultural era...when people began growing or gathering grains. So between the hunter-gatherer era and the agricultural era is when joint disease and tooth decay went from non existent to prevalent. So I'm a little hesitant about using much grain. 

Bottom line...they say they don't quite know what is causing this. Investigations still under way. But it looks very much like this replacing meat with peas and lentils, too many seeds etc may be the culprit. Grain is often used as a filler and if they're leaving out that and using peas and legumes as fillers instead, that may also be what the problem is. I don't believe it's the lectins in legumes because cooking them negates that problem. I do not get why grain in and of itself prevents DCM. That doesn't make sense to me. But not putting in enough meat and taking up that space with pea protein instead means there are many amino acids and things that come only from meat that they may be missing.

I notice that the food, Victor has no peas or legumes. Looks like it has a little grain. But what I think looks good is that it has a high percentage of protein from meat. I do wonder though, about the processing of dry food. It scares me. But then...all these years that our dogs have eaten this stuff. I had a child hood dog live to 18, another to 15, others almost that long. 

Here's another article. Sorry if it's been posted and I've lost track. I have about a million tabs opened and I may be duplicating something. But this is food for thought. 

https://truthaboutpetfood.com/is-it-peas-processing-or-a-combination/


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