# Is There a Time When You Know You've Done the Wrong Thing?



## Josephine (Feb 16, 2012)

I have been reading at this BBS for about a week now, and I am really impressed with the love and knowledge all of you have of your poodles.

I'm not sure if I should be owning a dog.

I hadn't had one for 30 years. On January 8, I got sweet little Oliver. He is now four months old.

He is very smart and very sweet. The issue is me. I live by myself, which is one reason I got a dog, for companionship. I have two cats but I thought a dog could walk and hike with me and be more of a companion.

But living by myself and maybe because of my temperament, I'm wondering if I should try to find Oliver another home. This breaks my heart because I do love him.

For the six weeks I've had him, I haven't a full night's sleep. This wears me down and I think probably makes the rest of it harder.

I work three days a week. When I'm here, I do my best to keep him happy and amused but what's happening is that except for when I go out for an hour or two, my entire life is doing that. I can't eat, watch TV, read, talk on the phone, or sit here at the computer without having to do something with Oliver to keep him out of mischief.

I have crate trained him from day one. We attend puppy classes once at week at Pets Mart. (He's very smart and has learned all the commands that have been taught.) As long as I keep a constant eye on him, he is pretty much housebroken. There hasn't been an "accident" in a week and that one was because I was on the phone and didn't notice he was at the door in time.

I even paid for a trainer to come out to my house on Saturday for an hour and a half to "evaluate" Oliver and give me tips on how to work with him through this puppy phase.

Here's the thing. Do other people go through this... feel absolutely trapped and stressed and wanting to cry half the time and then everything works out? Or ... am I just not one of you, not someone who can have a dog.

The thought of giving him away just kills me. But, here's an example. The trainer told me that when I'm on the computer and toys don't keep him occupied and a leash doesn't keep him from chewing the desk, etc., I should crate him. So I have. It's been a half hour now. I used that time to wash and pay some bills. Every minute of the time has been Oliver whining and barking. I'm not a laid back person and hearing him like that make me tense and miserable. (I do not go and comfort him. I know I'm supposed to ignore him.)

Please don't be mean to me. I'm a nice person and an animal lover! My entire "estate," except for a litte going to my executor in thanks for her doing it, is going to a couple local shelters, the ASPCA, the HSUS, PETA, and many more. All my charitable contributions go to animal organizations and veterans organizations. 

Will this 24 X 7 monitoring of Oliver end at some point so that we can live together happily? Is this something everyone has to do and are there people here who have done it AlONE? Or ... am I just not laid back enough to have a puppy and I should give him to someone, maybe with kids, people who can keep him happy? It will kill me to do it. I've had pets all my life and have NEVER given one away. 

But, with my body all tensed up all the time and my blood pressure sky high, I am feeling at wits end. 

And now... I go to let him out of his crate (hoping he'll stop crying for a minute so I won't "reward" him by letting him out) and take him for a walk. I've spent the morning, since 5:30, playing tug, throwing balls, trying to entice him to chewsticks. It's 10:45 and I haven't had time to eat anything yet. I've lost six pounds since I got him because I can never just sit down and relax and eat. But I guess that isn't a bad thing.


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## Josephine (Feb 16, 2012)

P.S. This is such a happy BBS!!! I hope this thread isn't considered something to bring everybody down. That wasn't my intent. If that is the case, maybe somebody can alert an Admin to delete it.


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## Brittany May (Feb 9, 2012)

I think many go through that feeling of hopelessness with new puppies. IMO, if you stick it out, you'll be happy with him for years to come  It will pass.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

You're not the first here with that problem, Jo . . . and u won't be the last. Other members here have a ton of experience with crate training and have found their way thru it.

I've not had any. So I'm just gonna suggest two things:

1/ Half an hour is a very brief time. Be prepared for a couple of hours 'til he settles down. Maybe throw a blanket over his crate to keep it dark in there. Every animal rescue show I've ever seen puts the animal in the dark to calm them down.

2/ Contributing to the HSUS is, unfortunately, giving your money to a company that is set up for profit.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

I'm waiting for some of the knowledgeable trainer types on this forum to chime in but I had to say something too; I know how you feel! Partly it might be Oliver's personality, because I have two and Maddy is like that (while her sister is not). Don't despair! There's hope. But raising puppies is a big deal, that's why lots of people on this forum don't get puppies (they get adults that have already been through that hyper naughty puppy stage); however, the puppy stage is the shortest phase of the dog's life, so if you can tough it out, you'll probably have the dog of your dreams! You mentioned he's in classes and he's smart, so that's wonderful. However for right now, you need some help. Can you afford doggy daycare? That could be the best thing you could invest in right now. If you don't have access to that, maybe just a friend, relative or neighbour who could help out by looking after your pup or walking him in return for you doing some other favour for them (house-sitting when they go away, mowing their lawn, errands, something like that?). Just so you can have a break and can restore yourself. Also, I get lots of challenging toys for Maddy at the pet store and keep them in reserve so when she's getting crazy, I pull them out one by one (putting away the one she's tired of). They include those dog logic puzzles where you hide treats, treat finders that you fill with treats and they have to really work at getting them out, and kongs with a few treats inside and the holes sealed with peanut butter or cheese which I've frozen, so it's hard to get the treats out. And also, if you have a fenced in yard or a safe place you can take him sometimes, it can be really relaxing to bring a coffee or something else you enjoy and let him loose to play and explore in a safe environment while you're there to supervise, but not actively involved in his play. Given that much of the time you ARE actively involved, you also need time out to recharge. Also, we do crate training by taking our two out for a vigorous, exhausting romp and when they come home tired and happy, we pop them in the crate for an hour with a couple of toys as mentioned above. We put a blanket over the crate so they can't see out and it's nice and cozy in there, and they have grown to enjoy a little quiet time (we started with 5 minutes and as soon as they were quiet and calm, we'd let them out--they're at about an hour now, of quiet and calm bone-chewing after a walk). Anyway, it's doable!! Only you can make the decision of whether you want to keep him or not, but don't feel bad whichever way you decide, you will both be fine. He's young and he will adjust fine into a new home if you decide to do that, but if you decide you want to keep him, I'm sure he'll be a fabulous dog once he grows up. Oh, and obedience lessons are SO key! So kudos for doing that. With our Maddy, we just keep her in obedience lessons session after session--it makes a HUGE difference after a while!! My thoughts and support are with you


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Hi Josephine - it does sound as if you are having a very difficult time. Can I ask if you ever get stressed over other things in life, or worry about getting them perfect, and exactly right? I gather from what you say that you do not have children, but have had other pets - did you have the cats from kittens, or were they already grown up when they came to live with you? There is something about being responsible for a very young life that brings out the nurturing instinct in us, but can also be very panic inducing.

I wonder if you are something of a perfectionist, and it is the anxiety of trying to get everything absolutely right that is wearing you down? And lack of sleep will certainly not help - everything becomes overwhelming when you are suffering from sleep deprivation. I would start by being much easier on yourself - puppies are resilient little creatures. I'm not a particular fan of crates (they are used less in the UK than the US) but an hour or two in the crate while you are home is not going to damage your relationship, or cause him irreparable mental harm. Pups need downtime as much as they need play, but if he is used to you being a constant playfellow he is unlikely to settle easily unless you help him (there is another recent thread on here about teaching a puppy how to settle down). I would make a schedule, allowing equal time for you and for him, and making absolutely sure you get enough sleep. You don't explain why you are not sleeping - if it is from stressing about the puppy, get a short term prescription for sleeping pills! If he won't settle and sleep in a crate in your bedroom, put his crate in another room and get some ear plugs. But get a few decent nights' sleep before you make any permanent decisions!

Pups grow up into dogs - eventually. You don't say what size poodle you have, so it is hard to say how lng the puppy stage will last, but it is finite. But before pups become adult dogs they go through all the stages of baby chewing and biting, of fearfulness, of adolescent bolshiness, etc, etc. Only you know whether you are going to be comfortable dealing with all of this. There will be stuff chewed - I was lucky, and mine were minimal chewers, but what they did chew was always the most expensive item available. Pups - and even adult dogs - make puddles, have diarrhoea, vomit, come home with muddy feet and jump on clean clothes, pick up fleas and ticks that need to be removed, steal food, rummage through the garbage ... this is what puppies and dogs do! 

Only you can decide whether you can raise a puppy into a happy dog - you will certainly not be the first person to decide that the puppy stage is not for you, and that adopting an adult dog is a much better idea. Many people on here look for adults for exactly that reason. But don't make the decision until you have had a week of sleep - the world may look a very different place when you see it through wide-awake eyes.


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## Hayley22 (Sep 21, 2011)

Josephine said:


> Here's the thing. Do other people go through this... feel absolutely trapped and stressed and wanting to cry half the time and then everything works out?


Short answer: YES!  Raising a puppy is amazing. But it's also really hard! I can't speak for everyone, but I have certainly felt hopeless, worried, scared, and stressed out about my puppy. When I first got her I was worried about EVERYTHING to do with her; I was so stressed out that I wouldn't be able to look after her properly. I've had her for about three months now, and I'm pretty much over the anxious feelings. Every now and then I feel like I'm going crazy, but then I take a deep breath, and remember why I got this naughty little ball of fluff: it's supposed to be fun; it's supposed to be about love. 

Of course, if you truly feel that your home is not the best place for your puppy on account of your emotional state, then by all means rehome him. Sometimes that is the best option for both parties. But if you're worried you're alone in this, let me tell you, you're not. The puppy phase will end eventually. And if you put in the hard work now, you can look forward to many years ahead with a beautifully behaved pooch.  

Good luck in whatever you decide to do!


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## Josephine (Feb 16, 2012)

Thank you for all the great advice! And it is a huge help to me that some of you, who seem so confident to me, have gone through periods of stress as well.

To answer some of your questions. I am 62, was married for 12 years, long, long ago, and we never had children. So other than babysitting 6 and 7 year olds 50 years ago, I have little experience with children and none at all with infants.

Yes, I am someone who gets stressed very easily and feel like I'm doing the wrong thing and screwing up and feeling guilty.

As for puppies and kittens, every pet I've ever had has been a baby when I got it. Up until the time I was 32 and separated from my husband, I had both dogs and cats, together. I sure don't remember the puppies being so stressful to me then. I'm not sure why. For the last 30 years, I've only had cats, two at a time. Once I'd lose one, I'd wait a few months (thinking I couldn't go through the loss again) and then I'd get a kitten.

I now have two cats, both of whom I got around eight weeks old, one from a local animal shelter who is now ten years old and the other from a woman who rescues feral cats. (Phobe was the kitten of a feral. She's now five years old.)

Unfortunately, I have a very small yard and we're not allowed to have fences so there's no way I can sit out on the deck with a coffee (my favorite thing to do BTW!) and watch him play. The trainer I saw on Saturday suggested a 20 foot lead. I've been going out there with him with that so he can do his zoomies without choking at the end of a leash! He spent a lot of time, unfortunately though, attempting to dig up and eat grass and dirt. I kept pulling him away and rolling a ball that he would chase.

Back to personality, I noticed the other day a thread about people with anxiety issues and how their dogs helped with that. I am very anxious, but for some reason, my anxiety ramps up with the puppy rather than dampens down.

The doggy day care sounds good. I live in a large suburban areas (Berlin, NJ) and there are probably some around here. I will check. (Berlin is in South Jersey, across the river from Philadelphia. Not near New York.)

That's interesting about the HSUS. I've seen negative blurbs about them on FaceBook as well. I will check it out.

Edited to add: He's a miniature poodle.


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## Josephine (Feb 16, 2012)

The reason why I'm tired is that he wakes up at 2:30 or 3 AM every morning. I take him out and he goes to the bathroom and then put him back in the crate but after that, he's restless and starts whining and sometimes barking every hour or so until I get up. 

I had given him his last feeding at 6 PM and last water at 8 PM and into crate at 10 PM. For the first three weeks or so, he'd wake up at 5 or 5:30 but now it's always 2:30 or 3:00.

The trainer gave me a different feeding schedule but for the first two nights I've tried it, he continues the same pattern.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think stress reactions change as you get older - I find I can lie awake at night worrying about something that would hardly have registered back when I was working, and lying awake stressing about how to fit 9 days work and six flights into a 7 day week without crossing the date line ... It is as if having learnt how to pump adrenaline, our brains and bodies develop a hair trigger, and go onto full alert at the slightest thing (not that having a puppy is trivial, but I am sure you know what I mean!).

I found having a sympathetic trainer, who was happy to answer questions by email, very helpful when mine were pups, along with a brilliant vet practice who never made me feel foolish or overprotective when I got anxious over puppy mishaps and minor illnesses. It also helps that I am not in the least houseproud (some of my friends and relations have another word for the state of my house!), and don't get fussed about minor messes and damage in the house - I reckon that is all part of having animals. When you find yourself trying to make everything perfect, ask yourself who you are doing it for - your puppy is most certainly not going to judge you!

ETA I would take him to bed with me when he wakes up - and I will almost guarantee that he will settle down and go back to sleep for 4 or 5 hours. Not correct by the book, perhaps, but worked for an awful lot of us!


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## Arcticfox (Dec 12, 2011)

I've found a couple things that really helped with crate training:

Stuffed kong! She ONLY ever gets these in the crate, so she knows it's a good place to be. If you're just starting out with them, don't make it too difficult, mine would give up on them pretty easily at first, but after a week or so, she got much more proficient. I'm up to blocking the holes with cookies, the plugging with peanut butter/pumpkin then freezing. It keeps her occupied for a good long while so I can relax and putter around on the computer for a bit. I usually fill mine with part of her kibble ration for the day, so she's getting fed too!

Blanket over crate. This and not having the crate in the bedroom made it much easier for her to settle down when she's in there. You can also try teaching a "shush" command which is what I did. 

Taking her out to potty the last minute possible before I go to bed. When she was 4 months, she could sleep about 6 hours through the night, I'd let her out the last time around midnight, and get up at 6am to take her out again. Mine is a standard though, so she might just have a bigger bladder. Make sure you aren't letting him play during the nighttime potty. 

I also have mandatory downtime for my girl. I take her out to potty once every 3 hours spent indoors, so the first 2 hours back from a potty break is spent hanging out in the apartment with me, and the last hour is spent in her crate either napping or with a kong/toy for self amusement. Back when I was still taking her out every hour, it was half an hour playing and half an hour in her crate - because more than half an hour out and about means she'll probably pee and she didn't throw any potty signals when she's indoors. 

I was exhausted and overwhelmed for most of the first month, and I still feel like that sometimes, but it has gotten better. Only you can decide how much you can take, don't feel guilty about rehoming him if that's what you have to do, especially if you are losing health over him. Try everything you are willing to try and re-evaluate your situation. Perhaps something will just click into place after a couple more weeks, or perhaps an older puppy or adult will be a better fit for you.


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## Josephine (Feb 16, 2012)

I have thought about bringing him to bed with me after the 3 AM wakeup. I have a question about this. He moves around constantly when he sleeps, keeps changing position. Is this normal, four month old puppy behavior?


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## katbrat (May 8, 2011)

I second the blanket or sheet over the crate at night. It had been fourteen years since we had a puppy, but ds was three at the time so it was just normal to have a "baby" and a toddler at the same time. Fast forward many years and we bring Lexi home at twelve weeks old. The first week of getting up with her several times, keeping a constant eye on her so she didn't chew or get into everything in her new world ds, who is now 18, looked at me laughing and asked "so mom, what does it feel like to be 48 with a baby in the house?" He could never have uttered a more true statement.  But things do settle pretty fast and you get into a routine, but honestly, I would say just be consistant. The first time Lexi unrolled the tissue and we laughed as we were picking it up from all over the bathroom and didn't let her know that that was not allowed, it was game on. Being consistant outweighed the "look how darn cute she is" and has made for a well behaved one year old now. The mandatory down time is very important as well as Articfox said. We have a routine that we follow every morning. I bet you will be amazed at how long he will stay in bed with you if you let him.  and puppies are just squirmy!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Excellent advice here. As others said, many people choose not to get a puppy because it is SO much work. It is like having a toddler around that you can't take your eyes off of. The thing is, dogs grow up much faster than children do. My dog just turned a year old. She is coming along terrifically. No more chewing naughty stuff, when I sit on the couch and ignore her she huffs and lays at my feet. When I am ready to play, so is she. Your puppy sounds like a very smart, active little guy. 

You are doing everything right except setting limits. Between four months and about 10 months is the hardest part of raising a puppy. They will get into stuff. They will be a pain. They may whine. They will be demanding. The thing is, it doesn't go on forever and ever. While you are in the midst of it, it can seem overwhelming, but try to gain some perspective and see the light at the end. It will be a short while until he get it, but the rewards are great. In a year, you will have a wonderful pet who knows boundaries.

The other thing is neutering. When a male dog is neutered they do calm down quite a bit. If you can hold off until he is closer to 9 months old he will develop nicely physically. If you just can not handle it, go ahead and neuter him younger. It isn't recommended anymore to early neuter, but if it is between driving you crazy and getting rid of him or having him calm a bit, early neuter may be right for your case. 

I want to give you a great big hug, too. It sounds like somehow you got an especially active puppy. Not all puppies are like that, but often the ones that are can be very smart, which in the long run is such fun. 

Hang in there, I say. Don't let the puppy dictate what you do too much. Buy some ear plugs for those times when you need to put him in the crate and take a break. Give him a delicious chew when you put him in there that you only give him in his crate. After a while (a month or so), he will learn that he isn't going to be left in there forever and he will calm down. 

I think you should hang in there, but don't feel so desperate to make him happy every second. He is a dog and will learn to entertain himself. Put him outside with lots of toys and chewing things. For the next two months he will be teething and be especially mouthy. You should have lots of chewing things lying around for him. Also, during teething they are preoccupied with their mouths and it can be harder to train them, but not impossible.

In a year, you will be so glad you stuck it out. You'll see.


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## all that jazz (Feb 6, 2011)

You are doing all the right things, with the puppy classes, the trainer, the crate. Once teething stops which may be around 5-6 months things get very better. You have invested so much of yourself to date, I would suggest waitin a while longer to rehome. My first poodle was challenging, and for three hours each day I called him "demon dog" because he wouldn't stop biting me. That ended at 5 months when teething finished. Our routine is up at 7 crate around 9, my new puppy sleeps until 11 or 12 and I can shower do what I need to around the house, etc. lunch around 12 then walk, play and nap around 3-5 another 2 hrs for me and then bed at 8:30. By about 10 mythsu after I had my first poodle, I could leave him out of the crate and go out for 4 hours or so, then when he got older, longer. It is an evolving situation and gets better. It is like having a child. I couldn't go into a restaurant with my first son until he was 4! The routine with the dogs and the finally becoming potty trained is what saved me. By 4 myths he should sleep in the crate all night. Perhaps he gets up at 5 but if you left him alone for a bit he would go back to sleep. One wet crate is not the end of the world. Hope this helps.


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## happybooker1 (Dec 6, 2011)

*Only you can decide*

Is the pup stressing you out more than relaxing you? Think about your life 'before pup' vs. now? I like animals that fit into 'my' schedule, not ones that I have to fit into theirs. If I want to chill and watch TV, they should be able to quietly amuse themselves or be happy to nap. I wouldn't get on well with a puppy that was constantly whining or pawing at me to play all the time. So I understand why you'd be frustrated by that.

Did you ever LET your puppy amuse himself? With proper toys/chewies I mean. Did you ever reward him for laying quietly on his mat/rug/in the crate? Sometimes we spend more time correcting pups for doing the *wrong* thing than rewarding them for doing the *right* thing. I keep treats in my pocket *all the time*. At first, when my pup went and laid on his rug, I'd throw a treat from the couch to him. Of course this would make him get up to come beg from me and I would have to then ignore him. Eventually he would give up and go lay back on the rug. I'd then throw another treat. The process would be repeated ad naseum until FINALLY the little bugger got it. "Hey she's crazy but she gives me treats when I'm on *this* rug. Maybe if I stay here I get more treats!!"

You won't have to throw treats forever. The indeterminate *jackpot slot machine* will get better results anyway. Start out with one every minute. Then every 5-10 minutes. Then every 30 minutes. Then throw 2 or 3 every minute. Then go back to every 30 minutes, etc. Then once an hour. Etc. Now my dogs *might* get a treat when they lay on the rug quietly or sleep on the couch by me. Or they might not. But they never know WHEN I might reward them so they keep doing it--LOL!

I think you might have 'conditioned' your dog to expect to play EVERY.SINGLE.MINUTE of the day. On his schedule. He's supposed to adapt to YOUR schedule. Ignore the whining, pawing, etc. Use earplugs or listen to music. He WILL finally give up. It might take 3 hours the first day. The behavior will INCREASE before it will be extinguished. The second day may only be 2 hours. The 3rd day might be only 45 minutes. If you give in EVEN once, you're back to the beginning and will have to start over. But I promise it WILL work!

GL to you and whatever you decide.


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

I felt *exactly* the same way during the first couple of weeks of having Sugarfoot. It had been 9 years since I'd had a puppy, and in those years I've learned so much, and had my head SO full of training advice, "must-do's," and extremely high expectations of exactly how he would be and behave....that I was in real misery for a while. I, too, am a big perfectionist and worried incessantly that I was "ruining" him, that I wasn't cut out for a puppy after all, etc. 

Luckily with soothing help from friends and family who talked me off the ledge, I'm feeling much better about him now. Yes, there's still the stress of keeping a constant eye on him, to the point where at times I feel a bit of a captive, and he does NOT like being left alone in his crate or room...but it's getting better all around. Your puppy does sound particularly high energy, which must make things even more stressful; mine is a Standard, and at this point I am able to wear him out to where he'll rest for decent intervals with short but brisk training sessions and frequent walks. I, too, have lost weight--but in my case, I'm calling that an *advantage* of puppy ownership!

The puppy phase will pass. You've gotten some great advice on how to get through it from the wonderful folks here...I'm taking note, too, and assuring you that you're not alone!

--Q


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

OOH been there- you should hear me when i have foster dogs in the house- especially if they are ones who started out as pups somewhere else then come to me- adjustment time. 

My suggestion: tired puppies are happy puppies. Period. Do you have doggy day care in the area? they are great- play dates, socialization etc for your puppy. 

I know you mentioned a trainer- are you taking classes right now? Puppy classes obedience agility etc- help tire a puppy out mentally and physically. As well it gives you guys skills together. 

Another suggestion is Control unleashed. It sounds to me like your guy is very now now now now go go go go and me me me me  Control Unleashed (There is now a book just for Puppies) helps teach your dog to calm down, relax and deal with stimulation. 

I'd also recommend getting the CRATE GAMES video and working on that with him to help your sleep at night. Another idea is to have a kong stuffed and in the freezer ready to go- out he goes (WELL personally at this age i'd be just not getting up with him- but waiting him out to go back to sleep- but again crate games and control unleashed will help with that) but take him out to potty then send him back in his crate with the kong so that he settles and is quiet and you can get more sleep 

Outside- there's lots of 'tie outs' you can do- it's a great way to let him be outside in the yard while your out there with him supervising. 

So - wear him out. Crate games, Control unleashed books/videos. And sign up for a weekly doggy lesson of some sort- be it obedience or agility etc


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Countryboy said:


> 2/ Contributing to the HSUS is, unfortunately, giving your money to a company that is set up for profit.


HSUS is legally a non-profit organization, so it is not accurate to say that it is set up for profit. The organization enjoys a four-star rating from Charity Navigator (check out the Charity Navigator web site for details).

HSUS has done a remarkably effective job in fighting against many different kinds of animal cruelty--everything from disaster rescue, to puppy mills, to cock and dog fighting, to the cruel confinement of farm animals (e.g., mother pigs are kept in individual crates that are too small for them to even turn around--a practice that is illegal in many countries, but still legal in the US). I would encourage anyone who cares about animals to give to the HSUS. Check out the facts at the HSUS web site, or read Wayne Pascelle's new book about his work, The Bond.


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

Oooh, I have to second neVar on the Crate Games advice. I have the DVD and started Sugarfoot on them about his second week with us. I have to say that he has the most self-control and patience of any dog I've ever had, and I think it's due in part to my diligence with the Crate Games. Good stuff.

--Q


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Lots of people have given you some good advice.

My advice for what it is worth is to do whatever YOU want to do. You may need to take a step back and think about it to really know what you want to do. But I think there are several good ways to proceed. (1) You could keep the dog and continue to work through the problems that you are experiencing, following some of the good suggestions that have been given. (2) You could rehome the dog and live without a dog. (3) You could rehome the dog and get a different dog--perhaps an adult with a calmer temperament.

The good news is that there are plenty of people out there who would love to give a young poodle a good home. If you decide that this is not the right dog for you, you should not feel at all guilty about choosing to find him a new home. This is a responsible and good choice. Keeping the dog and training him can also be a responsible and good choice. Either choice can be good for the dog. Only you can decide which is best for you.

If you decide to rehome the dog, you can play as much of a role as you want in the process. I recently fostered a poodle who was looking for a home and poodle rescue in my area was willing either to take the dog into their own foster program, or provide advice and suggestions to me as I took the role of foster-mom and spoke directly to those who were interested (I chose the latter).

Best wishes to you as you, and to your sweet puppy!


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## all that jazz (Feb 6, 2011)

Ps. Can you put In an electric fence? It is wonderful to be able to let them out to run around. They get exercise, mental stimulation and you can supervise from a relaxing vantage point. Also, with each puppy, though more with my first who is/was a high energy dog, I had a point where I thought I made a mistake, each for different reasons. Well, I am glad I hung in there because they have become wonderful pets, and the puppy phase did end, though at times I thought it never would.


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## dcyk (Nov 30, 2011)

Talk about the stress of a young puppy, i've never been an early person, but now i've been waking up almost daily at 6 to see to his needs first. The verge of almost giving up so many times in the first month of having him

At the beginning, he was crated, whines at 3am, then 330am etc etc.

After that, we let him out to roam our hall at night as we live in an apartment, we have a pee pad around which he knows to go to, to do his business.

Back then he still barks at our door at 5am, or whenever someone walks into the toilet or switches on a light.

Now he basically knows that even if he barks for us, we won't open the door until we're ready.

He's still bitey since he's 5 months, and he just started marking, grrrrr

Anyhow, his my first pup. It's hair raising, but not giving up on him and myself too


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

I feel for you ... Miniatures can be very high energy, and very inventive. 

It does get better with age. When mine hit about 18-20 months, he suddenly became a (relatively) mellow dog. I still make sure he gets lots of exercise, but he'd would likely be satisfied with less.

I'd suggest two things ... more exercise (dog park, dog daycare, or find a field where you can even illicitly let him off lead) and make the time you spend on him more purposeful, rather than just trying to wear him out so you can have some peace. Train tricks, or invest in Nina Ottossen toys. Train the behaviours you want, i.e. settling on command. A starter agility training class can be a good way to tire out a bright, energetic poodle; the mental stimulation is as necessary as the physical.

There are lots of ways to occupy a dog on his own ... a stuffed Kong (or any of a myriad of food-dispensing toys) is a great way to keep a dog busy.

Four months is still very young ... he's probably at the height of his wild puppy energy! When mine was that age, I imagined I could SEE the manic puppy energy fizzing through him, he had a really hard time getting rid of it.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Josephine said:


> I have been reading at this BBS for about a week now, and I am really impressed with the love and knowledge all of you have of your poodles.
> 
> I'm not sure if I should be owning a dog.
> 
> ...



Don't be so hard on yourself. It's gonna be OK. I have a little story about my pup, same age as yours with the same problem. And then 3 games to teach quiet in the crate below.

I'll share a little secret that everyone here will hate. My4 month old puppy is a crate crier. He's fine with the crate. He has separation issues. But a puppy crying in the crate at night... I am not exagerrating that my fiance would kick me out and since I finally sold my house, I would be homeless. With a 4 yr old son and a noisy puppy. Ignoring it and waiting it out is not an option. My pup wears an electric collar at night. And other times, meal and play times, I don't want him to be uncomfortable wearing the collar. It usually takes 1 stimulation from the collar to remind him to be quiet. I know you guys are not ecollar users, so it's important for you to know that the collar is very sensitive. It's a scale of 1 - 127. But I can't feel it until it gets to about 15 - and it doesn't hurt at the low level, but it is surprising. I'm not "shocking" my dog in the way the old (bad) collars worked. I don't like putting an ecollar on a puppy. But I also like having a home and being able to provide for my pup! Most of the time he sleeps with me, but we do crate nights once or twice a week to work on the separation issue.

:ahhhhh:

Yes, some puppies are more of a struggle than others. There are things you can do. Some of them you may not be willing to do - and that is OK. There are so many training options out there.

Here are 3 options that a gentler (and slower) but might be a better fit for you. You can do both.

1. Switch your puppy to a wire crate. Put it by your bed. After a week, move the crate 6 inches away from your bed. After the second week, move it another 6 inches away. It's slow, but soon your puppy can sleep quietly in a different room.

2. Crate games!! I'm assuming your pup goes into the crate without much resistance. So crate your pup, leave the door open and immediately c/t (click and treat, ending the behavior - meaning he comes out of the crate). Graduall increase the amount of time your pup stays in the crate with the door open. I'm thinking 30 seconds here. Then start over, but this time clse the door, open and reward immediately. Keep working until you can send your puppy into the crate, close the door, and puppy stays quietly for 30 seconds. Break this up into many training sessions. Make it the most fun part of the day! There are many crate games, but this one will hel with the whining.

3. Human treat dispenser. Put the crate in a central location. Like in the kitchen while you're cooking. Have treats in a dish on the kennel. When your puppy is quiet, drop a treat into the kennel. Don't talk, pretend to ignore him. You might be rewarding for a fraction of a second of quiet, depending on how bad the whining is. This is very effective, but it's going to take longer to cook!


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## lrkellly (Jan 6, 2012)

Sorry to hear your having a rough go of it!! I'm in the midst of raising my first puppy who is also a mini poodle. He's 8.5 months old now, and I can tell you - you're not alone and - _*it gets better!*_

When he was 4 months he was *A LOT* more work. He was still waking up in the middle of the night to go pee (even though, like you, I took water away well before bedtime). I let him out to do his business, about half way through the night, and forced him to wait until the morning to go out again. I definitely second the advice of those who mentioned investing in earplugs !

My mini needed an insane amount of exercise to keep him manageable throughout the day. In the morning we would walk - fast - not a stroll - for at least 1 -2 hours. Basically i'd be walking and he'd be trotting/jogging. Then periodic 10 minute walks to the local park throughout the day. In the early evening I'd take him to a schoolyard park or football field (that wasn't being used by anyone) and let him off leash to play fetch (I'd leave the leash on him so that I could step on it since he didn't have good recall). Fetch is an excellent way to tire out your puppy. We would play for 45 mins to an hour (I bought a chuckit which helps if, like me, you can't throw that far). He was still a little demon, but if for some reason he did not get this exercise, he was ten times worse. 

Try not to let him make you feel guilty if he's exercised and eliminated already when you put him in his crate. I know its hard, they know how to pull on the heart strings... but clearly you're a good 'mom' for being concerned enough to post here. 

It will get better. Sprout only needs one long-ish walk now (30 minutes) and one game of fetch for about 30 minutes (with sporadic 10 min walks throughout the day) and he behaves quite well and no longer needs a crate.

Best of luck,


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

PUPPIES ARE HARD! I feel your pain. I always get someone else's puppy... that means I get adult dogs. But this will pass and I think you will be a great dog owner. I encourage you to keep at it. You don't have much longer to go. It sounds like he is almost housebroke ect. Put him in his crate and put on some music and get some rest. He will be okay and so will you.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Tortoise, I was really trying not to comment, it's your dog and your decision how to raise him, but honestly, a shock collar on a 4 month old puppy? For real? 

I understand smetimes we don't have ideal situations in which to solve training problems, but a 4 month old puppy is a malleable, learning machine. Mine had (probably still has) borderline separation anxiety and he was quiet in his crate at night after a week and quiet in his crate during the day after two.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

You are absolutely right, Tortoise - I do not approve of using a shock collar on a pup (or a dog, for that matter). But what concerns me even more is that you are using it on him at night, unsupervised, and suggesting others do the same. There are too many reports of collars malfunctioning even when used as recommended - leaving a pup wearing one in a crate overnight while you are, presumably, asleep seems excessively high risk to me.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

fjm said:


> You are absolutely right, Tortoise - I do not approve of using a shock collar on a pup (or a dog, for that matter).


U've made that clear, fjm. We get it...


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## supysmom (Oct 10, 2011)

I did not read every post so maybe this has been said. I think what your going through is normal. puppies are very demanding, that is why it is sooooooo important to do our research before we get any pet at any age. we need to be honest with ourselves and know if we can handle it. this is precisely why there are so many wonderful dogs and cats surrendered to shelters. if it would break your heart to give him up, then you need to do whatever it takes to make it work. but, if you cant or wont change, you need to find him a more suitable home now, while he is young and can bond with someone new. I am not saying dog ownership is not for you. on the contrary. you sound like a wonderful pet owner, you know your limitations and your here asking for advice. but maybe this breed or just a 'puppy' is not for you. there are soooooo many wonderful, adult dogs out there that need wonderful homes. dont give up.


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## vicky2200 (Feb 14, 2012)

Puppies are a lot of work. Don't give up! Make sure he gets enough exercise everyday. Maybe you have a niece or nephew that can help? Take him for a few hours a week to play or just come over to wear him out? I wouldn't recommend someone under 15 for this.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

You are probably at the zenith of the crazy puppy behavior - it does get better. I don't understand the use of a shock collar - you want him to love the crate so I hope you don't try this method. Only good things happen in the crate. Lots of exercise and lots of obedience classes with a really good instructor will make a huge difference. Try teaching wait which will help him learn self control. Wait till I release you after I open the door, wait to eat ect. Place is a good command to. My nieces have trained guide dogs. When you say place they go to the designated area and wait. Have fantastic chewies - not the yucky stuff you get at most pet stores. Give him bullys and trachea and he will happily chew away. It calms my toy. I lock him in the computer room with me and he will just be happy as a clam chewing on his bully or trachea. If your dog is still crying in his crate at his age I think you are letting him out when he crys. If you stick to your guns the most subborn dog will usually stop after 3-4 days and usually in a much shorter time. Don't just lock him in the crate. Feed him there, cuddle, hide treats, play games. Puppies are a lot of work but if you do it right you will end up with a calm, well socialized happy dog.


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

Ah, Puppy Postpartem, how i remember it! LOL things get better, espespecially when you do as Bonzai's breeder advised me and PUT THE DOG AWAY AND GET OUT OF THE HOUSE! I was so freaked out about parvo that aside from work, I wouldn't leave the house because i was so afraid I would bring it home on my shoes. We had a bit of an epidemic last summer, so my paranoia wasn't completely unwarranted, but what a time that was. Karen was so sweet but very firm: crate the puppy and go to the park! Go shopping! Reclaim your life for a few hours!


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

JE-UK said:


> Tortoise, I was really trying not to comment, it's your dog and your decision how to raise him, but honestly, a shock collar on a 4 month old puppy? For real?
> 
> I understand smetimes we don't have ideal situations in which to solve training problems, but a 4 month old puppy is a malleable, learning machine. Mine had (probably still has) borderline separation anxiety and he was quiet in his crate at night after a week and quiet in his crate during the day after two.


Yeah, I know. Would never suggest it to anyone else. Sometimes the much-less-than-ideal situation is the only one that works.

My fiance is not cooperative with training when I am gone. I have a local trainer friend and we are going to train the separation. I hope it sticks, because the clicker training, desensitizing stuff had little if any effect on my guy.

Plus side is that he's wearing the ecollar less and less and when he does where it he needs far fewer stimulation that a couple of weeks. I am determined to get him off of it, I'm still doing the positive training even though it seems ineffective.

I wanted the OP to realize that raising a puppy is challenging and that she should not feel bad or panicked about it.


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## WestCoastSpoo (May 11, 2011)

I just wanted to let you know that what you're feeling sounds pretty normal! My husband (a pretty macho type guy) broke down and CRIED soon after we got our 1st puppy because of the stress and pressure of caring for this needy little being. What made my hubby finally crack was we wanted to go to the movies, but I was timing it around the puppy's potty schedule and wanted to make sure we were back home within a few hours to let him out. That made him feel totally trapped since previously we'd been able to just go wherever, whenever. Of course when we got Huxley (our spoo puppy) we already had 3 kids so a puppy's needs now seem like a drop in the bucket compared to what we're already doing! lol But my hubby definitely thought more than once that we wasn't going to be able to handle that 1st dog and thought about giving him back to the breeder more than once. But he stuck it out and 2 things happened: #1 the puppy needed less constant supervision as he got older and #2 my hubby got used to the demands of a dog (which honestly was GREAT training - for the hubby - for having kids! He didn't realize then how good he had it with one little pup!) lol 

I'm hoping you'll feel the same soon!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

JE-UK said:


> Tortoise, I was really trying not to comment, it's your dog and your decision how to raise him, but honestly, a shock collar on a 4 month old puppy? For real?
> 
> I understand smetimes we don't have ideal situations in which to solve training problems, but a 4 month old puppy is a malleable, learning machine. Mine had (probably still has) borderline separation anxiety and he was quiet in his crate at night after a week and quiet in his crate during the day after two.





fjm said:


> You are absolutely right, Tortoise - I do not approve of using a shock collar on a pup (or a dog, for that matter). But what concerns me even more is that you are using it on him at night, unsupervised, and suggesting others do the same. There are too many reports of collars malfunctioning even when used as recommended - leaving a pup wearing one in a crate overnight while you are, presumably, asleep seems excessively high risk to me.


Thank you both as always for being the diplomatic voices of reason from across the pond.:adore: I imagine you heard my scream of horror and frustration when I read the post.:target: I would be bounced from here if I said what I think. I hope we're being punked. 

To the OP, by now you can see most people deal with puppy frustrations, and they do so in humane and caring ways. I wonder if you've had contact with your pup's breeder for any suggestions or insights she/he might have? Does she consider her pups to be very high energy? Or have some encouraging info for you on the age they generally calm down? I have a mini from a breeder in New Jersey. I selected the breeder specifically because of the temperament of her poodles. They are renowned for being extremely easy to live with. I did not, and do not, have a revved up, uber high energy mpoo. That said, I trained him to have periods of rest and ended play sessions before he went into overdrive. However you proceed, I wish you well and hope you feel some measure of comfort from the support and understanding coming your way. Hugs!:hug:

ETA: Ignoring the pup at times can be helpful! Put him somewhere safe, put on some headphones and get some rest. There happens to be an "ignore member" feature on this forum, I find it useful too.:nod:


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

For those of you who can't, don't or won't read.

1. I am not talking about a no-bark collar which automatically senses vibrations and gives corrections. Besides inherently faulty, they are crude tools. I use an ecollar. It cannot do anything unless I press a button. It cannot be set off by vibration, eating, another dog, loud noise, etc. An ecollar is very sensitive, we're talking about stimulation, not "shock". I put it on myself at the same level - not painful. It's surprising though!

You shouldn't hate on things when you don't know what they are or how they work.

2. I do NOT recommend the same use an have stated that clearly.

Whatever happened to the wisdom to be able to comment "I don't know wnough to have an opinion about it."? Because your wasted horror is... wasted. You don't know what I am using. And you apparently didn't READ what I wrote anyway.

I have no intention discussing anything but pointing out some posters' inability to follow the English language. *I posted to the original poster in encouragement and compassion, to reassure her that she is not a bad person and not a bad puppy raiser.*

Y'all can gasp in horror at my happy little quiet puppy.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Hang in there! It will get better. I happen to enjoy the whirling dervishes when they are little, just knowing every moment, that little stinker is learning, maturing and turning into what I want him to be. I find a Kong with peanut butter up inside a wonderful way to keep them occupied and entertained. I would get some kind of tie out and let him play while you enjoy your coffee outside. You have gotten some terrific advice. I think if you follow even 1/10th of it, you will be well on your way to enjoying your little Tasmanian Devil!


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

tortoise said:


> *For those of you who can't, don't or won't read.*
> 
> 1. I am not talking about a no-bark collar which automatically senses vibrations and gives corrections. Besides inherently faulty, they are crude tools. I use an ecollar. It cannot do anything unless I press a button. It cannot be set off by vibration, eating, another dog, loud noise, etc. An ecollar is very sensitive, we're talking about stimulation, not "shock". I put it on myself at the same level - not painful. It's surprising though!
> 
> ...


Boldface font is mine. Your sarcasm is inappropriate. I'm quite certain those who commented--the individuals you're targeting with these sarcastic insults--possess exemplary English comprehension skills. They also possess the ability to engage in polite discourse and they refrain from belittling those with a differing opinion. There's a lot to be said for respecting your fellow poster. 

*Chagall's Mom*: the ignore feature is a wonderful thing but there are times when even that isn't enough.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Some people must just live to be horrified. And that is yr right. But why don't y'all practice on yr own dogs and leave others to do what they think is best for theirs.

I thot the sarcasm was at least as appropriate as the thinly veiled put-downs of a member who treats her dog in an entirely acceptable manner. 

All this manufactured horror is laffable.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Has anyone noticed the original poster is MIA?


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

CB - could be the HSUS support group :aetsch:

I have a REAL problem with this philosophy:

“One generation and out. We have no problems with the extinction of domestic animals. They are creations of human selective breeding.”
From 1993 by Wayne Pacelle, Humane Society of the United States.

And update - HSUS gets a D Rating from CharityWatch. 

Charity Navigator gives them only 1 Star (out of a possible 4).

Read Humanewatch.org for some enlightening information r.e. HSUS.

Support your local shelters. 

Work with rescue or foster. 

Back to the original post - some great advice here. Puppies are handfuls, but it DOES get better and there is a friendship that will develop that will live in your heart forever.

Best wishes.


Tabatha
NOLA Standards


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

tortoise said:


> For those of you who can't, don't or won't read.
> 
> 1. I am not talking about a no-bark collar which automatically senses vibrations and gives corrections. Besides inherently faulty, they are crude tools. I use an ecollar. It cannot do anything unless I press a button. It cannot be set off by vibration, eating, another dog, loud noise, etc. An ecollar is very sensitive, we're talking about stimulation, not "shock". I put it on myself at the same level - not painful. It's surprising though!
> 
> ...


I lurked here for quite a while before joining. Which I tend to do on any forum. Many others do or did the same. With an unknown audience, even APPEARING to recommend a shock collar for a puppy is ludicrously unwise. 

It's perfectly fine to have differences of opinion. What's the joke? Put three dog trainers together, and the only thing two will agree on is that the third is wrong? There are lots of ways to train.

But there are excellent resources for educating oneself, and really phenomenal work being done on dog behaviour. In my view, it's lazy and unproductive to use pain/fear methods in training, when there is an abundance of research to show that reward-based methods are better. Dog training is hard work; reward-based training is even harder. Pain/fear methods always seem to be championed by people who can't be bothered to put in the effort and want a quick fix.

I think it would also be useful to use plain language. It's a shock collar, i.e. it delivers a shock, not an e-collar. And it's a shock, not a 'stim'. A shock that is surprising for you, who know what it is and know to expect it, is vastly more disturbing for a dog, and even worse on a puppy.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

Josephine said:


> ...Here's the thing. Do other people go through this... feel absolutely trapped and stressed and wanting to cry half the time and then everything works out? Or ... am I just not one of you, not someone who can have a dog.
> ...
> Will this 24 X 7 monitoring of Oliver end at some point so that we can live together happily? Is this something everyone has to do and are there people here who have done it AlONE? Or ... am I just not laid back enough to have a puppy and I should give him to someone, maybe with kids, people who can keep him happy? It will kill me to do it. I've had pets all my life and have NEVER given one away.
> 
> ...


Josephine:
I also live alone. Unlike you, I work full time as in long hours five days a week. I raised two MPOO puppies and adopted three adult / geriatric rescue poodles over the years and still have my sanity. I'm not remotely 'laid back' and I managed just fine. What I'm trying to say is that it _will _get better. Don't give up hope and hang in there. Believe in yourself and believe in Oliver. 

Every dog is different and every situation is unique but dogs, like children, go through phases and they eventually grow out of them. Alex, my oversized MPOO, was a brat until he hit the one year mark. Pippin had Alex to keep him in line and was an easy keeper as a puppy. Poodles are smart so use that to your advantage. I'm a big advocate of positive reinforcement training. As *JE-UK* said, it's time consuming and a lot of work but the end results are worth all the effort. I wouldn't use a shock collar on a puppy any more than I'd use a cattle prod on a toddler.  I personally don't believe in shock collars as training tools period, but that's just my opinion, and there's nothing manufactured about it.

You know what else worked for me? Consistency. Consistency in everything and above all--exercise. Alex thrived on activity and I started running with him the day the vet cleared him and never looked back. He turned ten last September and I couldn't imagine life without him. I'm lucky in that I've had two poodles since Alex was just over a year old and they entertain each other. 

I'm not sure I could do the puppy thing again and therefore my last three additions were all adult (two geriatric) rescues. I often think people overlook adult dogs when they're the best option. Should you decide to add another poodle to your pack, please consider an adult poodle who is already past the puppy phases and trained as that will make your life easier. Take your time and work with a rescue that will match you with the _right _poodle--a poodle with the right temperament, training and needs. 

The adults still need interaction and training, some more than others, but you'll have a dog who can hold it longer and doesn't require constant attention. 

Best of luck to you and please keep us posted! Don't be afraid to ask questions or voice your concerns.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

I'm going to let y'all in on a little secret... I have an ecollar too!! :scared: Two of them, actually!

My little foster cocker spaniel is (sometimes) a crate barker. Not always - never while we're sleeping, but almost always as we're getting ready for bed, or preparing to leave the house for work, etc... She knows we're there, we're awake, so she thinks she needs to be out of the crate - while we're sleeping, she knows she's not missing anything so she is perfectly happy to sleep too!

Here's what I do with my ecollar and Cricket... When she's in the crate and we're getting ready for bed or to leave, or whatever, I have the ecollar powered up and lying on top of her crate. If she starts to bark or carry on, I press the "tone" button on the controller. She hears the little electronic beep and she goes instantly quiet (probably trying to figure out where the noise is coming from!) It may take a couple of "tones" to get her to settle down completely, but it always seems to work!! 

I know ecollars are not recommended indiscriminately - my brother used one to train his hunting dog and will swear by them to his dying breath - and his dog is not scarred or neurotic or ruined... He even seems happy when Jimmy gets the collar out to put it on him, he's not afraid of it at all! Ecollars are a tool - like many other tools that when used incorrectly or excessively can be detrimental. When used discriminately and carefully, they can assist in the job at hand.

I find that my dogs heed the beep/tone just fine - I don't need to use the stim or shock or vibration or whatever you want to call it... I dont' even need to put the collar on the dog! When I'm ready for the dogs to come in the house and my recall seems to be broken, I turn on one of the collars, hold in in my hand and press the tone button - I'm not sure how they can even HEAR it since they're usually at the far corners of the yard, but when I do that they all come running!!

I will use any tool at my disposal if I do not feel it's hurting or scaring my dogs. I'm sure we ALL feel the same here! 

To the OP - who does appear to have gone MIA... Good luck with whatever you decide! Pet ownership should be a pleasure, not a hardship. You've received lots of advice from which to pick and choose. Do what YOU need to do for YOU!

Barb


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## DivinityPoodles (Jan 23, 2012)

I told my husband and my kids when they all wanted puppies.... it means 2 years of hell then hopefully you get the dog you wanted :afraid:. Having said that there are certainly ups & downs. Puppies eventually grow up and the advice that has been given here is excellent. Absolute best advice I ever got was 'Tired dog/puppy = Good dog/puppy' which does not mean entertain him every moment. 

Good luck with whatever you decide works for you and just make sure it is the right decision for you... don't let guilt make you keep or rehome your pup.


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## Jane (Aug 3, 2011)

I have SO been where you are!!!! When Pippa was little, she'd wake up really early and I tried to keep her quiet because my husband was not really in favor of having a dog, anyway. My life revolved around her and only her. I really stressed any time she was unhappy and she HATED the crate. She's a very vocal dog and let me tell you - she was not shy about letting everyone know her displeasure. I was at my wit's end keeping her busy, tending to her, worrying about her, etc. Finally my daughter helped me see the light when she told me - very seriously, "Mom, Pippa is a DOG. You're in charge. She is not." She was right. I was the pack leader and if I needed her to settle down and let me finish my nap - then that's what she'd have to do. I started telling her to settle down and put her at the foot of my bed and wonder of wonders, she began settling down and waiting. Most of the time, she'd go back to sleep, too. She began to learn to amuse herself and she has even learned to get in the crate w/o fussing when I have to go to work. She's still a busy dog and I have had to change my routine (I get up every morning at 5:30 to take her for a walk before I go to work and I walk her most every afternoon) but she is SUCH a joy! She keeps me company and makes me laugh and my husband (the one who didn't want a poodle at all) adores her, too. I've caught him calling her "his" little Pippa dog on more than one occasion. She's 10 months old now and it was fully worth the no sleep, all shoes up high puppy aggravation. I really think if you hang in there - you'll be glad you did.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Rowan said:


> ...


I have more patience for dogs than for people who do not read what is written. Responding to opposing opinions require time to reflect and understand. This is not done on this board, very disappointing.


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## PoodlePowerBC (Feb 25, 2011)

Horror!! I use an ecollar for Russell as well...not a shock, but a vibration. I started at around 7 months, mainly for help at recall. He knows what it is! I bring it out and he gets super excited, comes to me and puts his head into it. Wanna know a secret :secret: the collar and transmitter haven't been charged since mid November. (But don't tell Russell) I believe used properly this is an effective, safe, humane tool! But when people at the dog park ask me about it, I don't recommend it to everyone. It was recommended to me for my first Spoo because of his prey drive re: ducks and deer, it just broke his train of thought, and it worked for Russell.kinda like a pager


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## Bobby Bear (Mar 1, 2010)

My puppy is 16 weeks old at the moment.Yes she is a little demented demon,into everything,with teeth like needles but so much fun.That zest for life!!!
So chill out and enjoy that puppy.......!!!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I have opened a new thread on e-collars, to avoid hijacking this one any further. Happy to continue the discussion there!


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## Josephine (Feb 16, 2012)

outwest said:


> Has anyone noticed the original poster is MIA?


Sorry! I was MIA for about a day. I'm a computer addict, usually on one typing away but here in my office is one of the worst places for Oliver to be. He gets particularly crazy in here. 

I AM reading this thread in small bits and the advice has been GREAT. And I truly appreciate the kind words and support.

Someone mentioned how their pup will chew his bully stick while they're on the computer but no matter what I do, I can't control him in here. Just now he had a bully stick, which he chewed on for a few minutes, then got up and started pulling on my pants legs and pulling on the leash (which trainer told me to keep him on) to try to get behind the desk at the wires. 

And this after we just had an intense hour of exercise outside. 

Anyway, I just put him in his crate for a few minutes so I can finished this.

Question about fetch outside. I don't have a fenced in yard, and what I have is very small, so I put him on a 20 foot leash and try like heck to get him to chase a ball and run but it's a struggle because all he really wants to do is pull up weeds and dirt and eat them. And my yard currently has weeds everywhere, so he's spending most of his time, not running but being jerked by me, away from eating the newest tasty weed he's found. Am I doing something wrong here?

I don't have any family here in NJ and only have a brother up in Connecticut. My one and only nephew is over 30 years old and I haven't seen him in years. Unfotunately, there are no kids in my life who would like to play with a little dog.

Anyway, please don't think your posts aren't being read. They are and I appreciate them!

(I especially liked the one where the puppy made a grown man cry. That made me feel better!)


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## katbrat (May 8, 2011)

Oh my goodness, chewing up grass and yanking it up! I wonder if that is a poodle thing? Lexi did this from day one when we brought her home at twelve weeks. She is one and still will root around and when she runs by a certain area in the yard, yank up a mouthfull of grass on the way by. Good luck on your baby. They are a handfull, but if you can hang on, they are so worth it!


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## Rayah-QualitySPs (Aug 31, 2010)

Josephine said:


> Sorry! I was MIA for about a day.
> Someone mentioned how their pup will chew his bully stick while they're on the computer but no matter what I do, I can't control him in here. Just now he had a bully stick, which he chewed on for a few minutes, then got up and started pulling on my pants legs and pulling on the leash (which trainer told me to keep him on) to try to get behind the desk at the wires.
> 
> I don't have a fenced in yard, and what I have is very small, so I put him on a 20 foot leash and try like heck to get him to chase a ball and run but it's a struggle because all he really wants to do is pull up weeds and dirt and eat them. )


Dear Josephine;

The great thing about owning a smart animal like a poodle is you can *retrain* them if you *screw up*. 

Enjoy what you can about the puppy - don't stress out. If you do teach something wrong who cares. If it bugs you later just retrain for what you want now. Poodle do not hold grudges!

Almost everybody has a fenced area like a baseball diamond or a fenced church yard close by. Find one of these *fenced yards* and take your dog there to *run free*. Try to let the puppy place by himself so he learns that he can play by himself. Provide toys, bring a book and enjoy 15 minutes of fresh air. Keep a long line on the puppy so instead of him learning _keep away_ you can just stomp on the end of the line/leash and get him back. I am not talking about a dog park - just the opposite as you do not want other dogs - you want your puppy to learn to *play by himself*.

In your computer room when the puppy is pulling your pants step on the leash with you foot. Make sure you have shoes on. Keeping your foot on the leash pull up on the end of leash that is not attached to the puppy until the puppies neck is about six or eight inches from the floor. Do not look at the puppy or react in any manner. Just calmly pull the leash and keep your foot down until puppy calms down. Try to sit back down at your computer and read. Do *not* laugh or smile - pretend you are playing poker and keep a _straight face_.

The first time you do this it might *shock* the puppy and he might even yelp in protest or frustration. You are *not* in any way* hurting* the puppy but teaching him to settle down.

Good luck and *I hope you keep him*.


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## dcyk (Nov 30, 2011)

Haha i think i did feel kinda desperate at a time too when it suddenly hit me that having a dog is really a huge responsibility and it's gonna change my life and my lifestyle copletely.

Many a time i was stressed out to the point of giving up, but i always said to myself, give him some time, he will grow out of it, and he did. So i kinda got used to it and just let him do his stuff now, and correct him when i don't want him to do anything wrong.

Mack just dug out the tissue from a side compartment of his 'carrier bag' and shredded it under the sofa, i didn't even realize it until i wondered why he's under the sofa for that long with the chewing sound

Poodles and tissue, they go well together LOL


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## Arborgale (Dec 11, 2011)

Josephine said:


> because all he really wants to do is pull up weeds and dirt and eat them. And my yard currently has weeds everywhere, so he's spending most of his time, not running but being jerked by me, away from eating the newest tasty weed he's found. Am I doing something wrong here?



Can I borrow your puppy? We have a lot of weeds in our yard that need pulling. I bet you have neighbors who would pay for this service.  Just kidding! Rosie is quite the handful outside also. She loves to root around in the grass and is so proud to find a dead plant. She carries it around like a prize.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Josephine said:


> then got up and started pulling on my pants legs and pulling on the leash


Tug is a great indoor or outdoor game. Even in yr computer chair u can keep a short Tug Toy in yr pocket . . . or a drawer.

The first time I took Tonka thru a Rally course he quit halfway and grabbed the leash with his teeth. There was no more Rally after that . . it was all Tug!  

He's not much interested in fetching. Well, maybe once or twice. But he'll try to pull a rope out of yr hands for hours! 

U might want to add Tug to yr arsenal of diversions for yr busy puppy.


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## lrkellly (Jan 6, 2012)

I taught Sprout fetch using a clicker. It was really easy. He brings the ball over, click + treat - capture the behaviour. A few more times and he learned it. Now he also knows how to search for his 'ball' the 'other ball' and his 'toy'.

He also loves tearing up grass! Or at least he did before the ground became covered in snow. Super cute - he pulls it up and whips his head around like he's trying to kill it. My puppy trainer told me that this is something puppies grow out of - its their way of learning and exploring...


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## pgr8dnlvr (Aug 7, 2011)

Countryboy said:


> Tug is a great indoor or outdoor game. Even in yr computer chair u can keep a short Tug Toy in yr pocket . . . or a drawer.
> 
> The first time I took Tonka thru a Rally course he quit halfway and grabbed the leash with his teeth. There was no more Rally after that . . it was all Tug!
> 
> ...


I thought a heck of a lot of trainers now say never to play "tug" with a puppy? I think it was something to do with domininace issues or something like that... So confusing... ?

Rebecca


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

pgr8dnlvr said:


> I thought a heck of a lot of trainers now say never to play "tug" with a puppy? I think it was something to do with domininace issues or something like that... So confusing... ?
> 
> Rebecca


The new thinking is that tug of war is a cooperative game that dogs play with each other and with us. I used it when mine was little to increase her confidence by letting her win half the time. If you have a very dominant pup you could use it by ot letting them win so much, but it isn't really a dominance behavior. Either way, it is a fun game that dogs love. We still play tug almost every night.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Sophy found something even better than a tissue - Tilly-cat brought a rabbit home, and they shared it on the living room rug while I was busy elsewhere. Ah well, now I know what all the tearing at stuff is about! The ultimate prey model diet, I suppose ...

It's good to hear you sounding rather more relaxed, Josephine. If your pup has completed his jabs, taking him out where he can see - and when you can control it, meet - lots of different kinds of people and other dogs will help to tire him out. Few children can resist puppies - I used to ask small children in particular to sit down before greeting mine - it saved both the problem of children running around flapping and winding the pup up to nipping point, and the danger of them trying to lift the puppy up and dropping it. Carry treats with you for people to offer him, so he associates people with good stuff. Even just sitting on a bench or outside a coffee shop watching the world go by is good experience for a young pup. And I agree with Outwest, tug is a brilliant game, which most puppies love!


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

tortoise said:


> I have more patience for dogs than for people who do not read what is written. Responding to opposing opinions require time to reflect and understand. This is not done on this board, very disappointing.


And I have no patience for people who are rude, insulting and unable to engage in polite discourse.

Just because members don't agree with you and challenge your viewpoints doesn't mean they haven't taken the time to read and reflect on your position/opinions. It just so happens they disagree. 

Don't confuse differences in opinion with ignorance. That's incredibly disappointing.


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## flyingpoodle (Feb 5, 2012)

*Grass savaging*



katbrat said:


> Oh my goodness, chewing up grass and yanking it up! I wonder if that is a poodle thing? Lexi did this from day one when we brought her home at twelve weeks. She is one and still will root around and when she runs by a certain area in the yard, yank up a mouthfull of grass on the way by. Good luck on your baby. They are a handfull, but if you can hang on, they are so worth it!


George's favorite summer game was "hose monster", I'd squirt the hose on the grass around the yard, he'd chase it, and when he finally "caught" it (i.e. I'd let it run in one place) he'd TEAR at the grass with his teeth! Then he'd chomp his way up the water stream and if I was still holding it still, start calmly drinking as if it hadn't been his worst enemy a minute before. Best game ever!


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## Ladywolfe (Jan 11, 2012)

Tortoise.....I would be very, very concerned about being fearful of losing my home when dealing with a person who puts me into a position where " I am not exagerrating that my fiance would kick me out and since I finally sold my house, I would be homeless. With a 4 yr old son and a noisy puppy." Didn't you have both the son and the pup when you began living with him?

Living in a situation where you feel this way should be the thing that equals, "Ignoring it and waiting it out is not an option." Training your dog should never be controlled by fear of losing a roof over the head of you and your child. I am so sorry that you are going through this stress, and it cannot be an easy situation for anyone, including your dog.


You have infinately more patience than I do, all around, but still
I hope that this all reconciles itself very fast for you and your child. Good throughts being sent your way!


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## frankgrimes (Nov 28, 2011)

I wanted to chime in on this thread, not only as support to the original poster, but to all those puppy owners who may stumble upon this in their times of stress and hopelessness.

Having a puppy is hard work. It is quite possibly the hardest most stressful thing I have attempted. When you have a bad day at work, yes, that is hard, but you punch out and go home and relax. A puppy is 24 hours constant stress. I had a VERY HARD TIME adjusting to a puppy. I still have A VERY HARD TIME and often have days where I am on the verge of mental breakdown over one tiny little puppy. It feels silly. Lots of people have dogs, they make it seem so easy, and yet here I am crying over the stress that one little poodle causes. I can relate, that is for sure. 

The first two months we had ralph were the worst. He was hyper, busy, mouthy. We were new to dog ownership and were used to being DINKS (double income no kids) with the freedom to do whatever/whenever. Then all of a sudden our lives revolved around the dog. I was paranoid that he would get in to something, paranoid he had to go potty, paranoid that he kept getting sick, stressed times 1000. People would be all "oooh, puppies are so fun" and I would feel like a total dirt bag. "Enjoy the puppyhood stage" when all I wanted to do was drive the 6 hours back to the breeder and drop him off. Yes, Ralph is cute, but he was a monster and I was a nervous wreck. Not a day went by that I didn't think of returning the puppy and going back to my normal, quiet, dogfree life. I felt like a cold hearted cruella deville type disney villain.

Time went on, and I adjusted. Ralph started to understand what we wanted from him (CALMNESS!) and would give us some rest. He got more comfortable with home and started to entertain himself. I started to learn to let go. Understanding that I could no longer control every detail about my day or my home, and that my home would no longer be 100% clean, and I needed to be OK with that. I found that I would only think about taking the dog back maybe every other day, or every third day. I began to love the dog on a deeper level (more than just caring for his needs).

Ralph is now almost 8 months old. He still stresses me out. I am still exhausted, and I still struggle with adjusting to my new crazy life. It is much much easier now than it was initially. I know that puppyhood is a phase. He will outgrow it. He is teaching me patience, and helping me get over my tightly wound, control freak way of being. I only think about how nice it would be to ship him off to my mother on a monthly basis :aetsch: but I know I am in it for the long haul now. There is no way I could part with my poodlepants. He is still a brat, and a fuzzy little money pit, but I know he will be a great dog once he gets to adulthood.

Raising a puppy is way harder than anyone can imagine until they have done it. People like to tell you that you should have done your research before you got a puppy. Well, I did my research, and let me tell you, reading it in a book is one thing, living it is another. I am an active person, I run long distances. I thought a "high energy" dog would fit my lifestyle, and he will, but a puppy is a different type of energy.

Don't feel bad about yourself, don't feel guilty about your feelings. Try your best to hang in there, knowing it will get easier, even if it is just tiny little wins at a time. You do need to take a break though. LIke another poster mentioned, crate the dog and go out. You need time away from the puppy so that you can remain sane.

Keep posting on this board, it was so helpful for me during my most intense moments of being over whelmed.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

*frankgrimes*:
Thank you for your honesty and candor. You nailed what it feels like to raise a puppy!

I've always said that I love puppies--other people's puppies (OPP). I raised two and I'm a avid supporter of adult dogs now.  Puppies are super cute but they are a lot of work. Twenty-four seven kind of work. One of my friends said raising a puppy is like having an infant and a toddler in the same package. 

The good news is that they grow up fast and before you know it, you have the companion of your dreams. By that time you've probably forgotten how rough those puppy days were and will think you want another one. _Think again_.


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

Haha--frankgrimes, I loved your post, too! Pretty much every emotion you talked about, I've been feeling it, too, including the urge to pack the puppy straight back to his breeder! Luckily, my little monster, too, is growing on me as he learns more and more and fits more and more into our lives.

But, oh, those sharp puppy *teeth*!!! :afraid::ahhhhh:

--Q


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

*Is this common?*



Josephine said:


> I have thought about bringing him to bed with me after the 3 AM wakeup. I have a question about this. He moves around constantly when he sleeps, keeps changing position. Is this normal, four month old puppy behavior?


I'd say it could be if he is not used to sleeping on the bed. Direct him towards the foot of the bed where it won't disturb you as much. After a while he will get more used to it.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Josephine, I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time with your Oliver! Your story is really close to home for me. It seems I've felt exactly like you do now when my Lumi was a little pup! The biggest difference see is that, by some miracle of miracles, Lumi slept through the night about 98% of the time. Other than my nightly sleep, I got no break. And you know what? Sleep was not enough!! I was a nervous wreck - crying multiple times every day (it might be more accurate to say I *stopped* crying for a little while every day!), losing my patience and yelling (this had never been my style before), ruing the day I brought her home, certain I was completely ruining her and she deserved a better home, with a saner person who would love her more. I went to therapy because I had so much anxiety over her. I had heart palpitations and eye twitches!! Hahaha I can definitely say it was the most difficult experience of my life. I've had individually harder days, sure, but never before did something so difficult last for so many weeks, months even, day in, day out, no breaks. They say raising a puppy is hard. That's only because there isn't a word in the English language to describe how difficult it really is!! : P 

Lumi is 9 months old now, and I couldn't ask for a better 9 month old. : ) She's still very puppyish and can get riled something fierce, but for the most part she's a *very* good dog. Please don't think you're alone in feeling so overwhelmed, or under-qualified. I'm sure you're doing a much better job than you imagine. : ) I'm also quite the perfectionist and felt every time she did something "wrong" it was a huge failure on my part. Some things just take time, though, and even with all the proper training, she's still going to act like a puppy for a while. Try to enjoy the insanity because it will not last forever. I'm still very sad over not enjoying Lumi's puppyhood more, so don't miss out on Oliver's!! 

If I offer only one suggestion to you, it's TAKE A BREAK! Whatever it takes, get free and relax. Some have suggested crating him and getting out some headphones, which is wonderful. Lumi was also a crate screamer and I refused to do such things because I was *too* upset to relax if I knew she was upset, even if I couldn't hear her! I realize now that I needed some me time, and if that meant dropping her off with a friend or petsitter so I could rest knowing she's happy, then that's what I should have done. No, what I *needed to* have done. Taking time for yourself is a necessity. Do whatever you need to get that. : ) You can't take care of anyone else if you haven't taken care of yourself first! Best of luck! Lumi and I are wishing you lots of happy times with Oliver!


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## sweet viola (Dec 9, 2011)

OP, 

I am new to this board, and my SPOO baby is only 5 months old, but I have a question for you: "WHY did you get the dog?" Where you lonely and thought it would be good companionship? What TRIGGERED the desire for a puppy, especially when it has been years since you had one? Was it an impulse, or thoughtful? What was the motivation?

Yes puppies will grow up and everything will get better, but this could also be a symptom of something else going on in your emotions. Do you have a history of depression? Could it be that this is actually triggering a serious level of depression? Did you get the pup in a "manic" moment and are now dealing with the "lows"?

I think if you figure that out, you will figure out the best solution. I thought doggy daycare was a great idea, but if the reality is, that you have come to realize you really DON'T like dogs too much, OR you need a completely different temperment, then it's ok to say that to yourself. I am sure he would make a family very happy if that is your conclusion.


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