# Puppy Vaccinations



## kmart (Apr 28, 2015)

Hello everyone! 

I'm curious about your thoughts on vaccinations, specifically puppy vaccinations. I know a lot of people are concerned about over-vaccinating. On the other side, I've seen a ton of concern about puppies not being exposed to certain situations without being completely vaccinated. 

What vaccinations do you give your poodles? Do puppies get the full set or can they be limited in vaccines too? I'm curious about what you all do and why. 

Also, what are your thoughts on puppies' subjection to the general public, nature, and other dogs before finishing vaccines? 

Thanks in advance!


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

I follow Dr. Jean Dodd's protocol

Dr-Dodds-ChangingVaccProtocol


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I wanted to follow Dr Dodd's protocols but my vet said she could not get a vaccine with only distemper and parvo in it for just us. They would have to order multiple doses for more than one dog. So we went ahead with a 4 in 1 vaccination that did not have lepto. She said if I wanted parvo/distemper only for the one year booster, let her know a month in advance and they would call around to see if another vet in the area carried it. After the one year booster, I plan to do titers.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

In the UK the norm is two rounds of the core vaccines at around 8 and 10 weeks, and another at one year. Recommended vaccines are for parvovirus, distemper, leptospirosis and infectious canine hepatitis, although the lepto is debatable. Rabies is only needed if the dog is going to travel abroad. I then follow a three year booster regime, with an annual debate about lepto - my vet recommends it as he sees the occasional case where we live, and does not want to see more.

I think that there is now a general concensus that socialisation and learning about the world needs to happen while the puppy is very young, and is essential to ensure it the best chance of growing up into a happy and confident adult. That doesn't mean dropping an unvaccinated pup into the middle of a field full of unknown dogs, of course - it does mean balancing risks. Pups can be carried in places that might not otherwise be safe, or sit on your lap to watch the world go by; can be taken on playdates to visit kind, vaccinated dogs; go to puppy classes with other vaccinated pups; visit family and friends - there are plenty of safe ways of ensuring that they get the happy experiences and associations that they need.


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## Tabatha (Apr 21, 2015)

I'm somewhat perplexed by vaccine recommendations, even by Dr. Dodds.

If a puppy's maternal antibodies render vaccines useless, what's the point of vaccinating before 8 weeks of age or before they are naturally weaned by the mother? What's the point of vaccinating at all before 12 or 14 weeks if you're going to restrict the puppy's exposure? 

Dr. Ronald Schultz recommends individual vaccines spaced 2 weeks apart starting at 8 or 9 weeks of age, repeating at 11 - 12 and again at 14 - 16. *HOWEVER, this is not the protocol he follows with his own personal puppies.*

"Dr. Schultz's core vaccine protocol for his own family's pets differs in that he actually runs antibody titers on the mother to know exactly when the best time is to effectively immunize the puppy or kitten for the 3 core viruses. Then he titers the little ones 2 or more weeks after the vaccine, and as long as the response is adequate, *he doesn't in most cases revaccinate for the rest of the pet's life*."

"When it comes to rabies vaccines, Dr. Schultz gives the first vaccine after 4 months of age, revaccinates in a year, and then again in 3 years and every 3 years thereafter. In other words, he follows the law for 3-year rabies vaccines, even though he doesn't believe a vaccination every 3 years is necessary for immunization."


The Best Part About the New Dog Vaccination Guidelines


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## Tabatha (Apr 21, 2015)

Also wanted to mention that the vaccines themselves only cost $2 - $3 per vial. I can't remember how many doses are in a flat. If you are raising a litter, you could purchase a flat of vaccines at cost or organize a group buy (through your vet). You could also look for an holistic veterinarian.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

There is a core group of reactionary new age people who seriously believe vaccination is a danger. Like many small sub groups in our society they have a very loud, heavily publicized voice. The facts are: without vaccination humans would still be dieing from smallpox and many other preventable diseases. YES! a very small percentage of vaccinated people and dogs will have side effects of vaccination. For the most part these effects are minimal. Do not be swayed by pressure groups who are adverse to advances in medical science. Ludism is not dead. Have a GOOD vet. Take his/her advise. Do not listen to hearsay and misinformation from poorly adjusted and sometimes poorly educated, people.
Eric:angel2:


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## Tabatha (Apr 21, 2015)

ericwd9 said:


> There is a core group of reactionary new age people who seriously believe vaccination is a danger. Like many small sub groups in our society they have a very loud, heavily publicized voice. The facts are: without vaccination humans would still be dieing from smallpox and many other preventable diseases. YES! a very small percentage of vaccinated people and dogs will have side effects of vaccination. For the most part these effects are minimal. Do not be swayed by pressure groups who are adverse to advances in medical science. Ludism is not dead. Have a GOOD vet. Take his/her advise. Do not listen to hearsay and misinformation from poorly adjusted and sometimes poorly educated, people.
> Eric:angel2:


Misinformed? Poorly adjusted? Poorly educated? Wow! Is that a personal attack?? You don't even know me!

I would trust and follow Dr. Ronald D. Schultz' (Department of Pathobiological Sciences, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Wisconsin - Madison) recommendations over any pedestrian veterinarian as Dr. Schultz has dedicated his life to the studies of immunity and viral diseases. *In fact, it is Dr. Schultz' research which changed the AVMA vaccination guidelines from annual to tri-annual. *

But thanks for your infinate wisdom.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I don't think Eric is against Dr Schultz' evidence-based approach, but rather is saying that the extreme position taken by those who refuse to vaccinate their animals and children is not supported by the evidence. For example, in both the UK and the US the now-disproved connection proposed between the MMR vaccine and autism has left many children and young adults at risk from preventable diseases that can have serious and even fatal consequences. Of course we all do what we can to protect our animals from the very small risks presented by vaccination, but it would be foolish indeed to deny them the protection provided by vaccination altogether!


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## Tabatha (Apr 21, 2015)

Unfortunately, it's posts like Eric's which prevent people from discussing important issues and questioning science, which is not infallible. It was unnecessary and inflammatory disguised with smiley faces.

This is an article on vaccines from the University of Wisconsin by Dr. Schultz: 
Schultz: Dog vaccines may not be necessary

It has been scientifically proven that not all vaccines are safe and harmless, they can and do cause adverse effects and immune related diseases. Unfortunately, the peer reviewed study is not available to the general public, you need to be a member of AAHA.

After working in a veterinary hospital in downtown Toronto for many years, I can confidently state that vaccine reactions are rarely ever reported to either the vaccine companies or the veterinary governing bodies.


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## Spoos+Ponies (Mar 26, 2014)

The fact is that vets are private health care. The more often you go there the more money they make. The only way to determine if a vet is 'GOOD' is to do your own research first. Most people aren't saying vaccinations are 'BAD', they're saying over-vaccination is 'BAD'. My local vet still sends me yearly vaccine cards, even though I've told him I go to the holistic vet and get titers. He gets titers for himself for rabies. I don't remember the last time I was vaccinated for anything - maybe elementary school. That's how immunity works - you're immune, generally for a long time. I think we're supposed to get tetanus shots every ten years - why would our dogs need anything yearly.

For my last pup, my breeder gave a single distemper, and a single parvo. I waited until she was 16 weeks and gave her a 3 way(that's all that was available - also, no lepto). I got her rabies at 11 months, and at that time had her titers done for distemper and parvo. She had very strong immunity, and I did not vaccinate her again. My older guy was just titered for rabies - again, very strong immunity, so no more rabies shots. I need for them to be immune, not constantly re-vaccinated - that's the point.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I found these to be food for thought. I only quoted a small portion of the 1st article. So, you can click on the link to read more. Personally, my protocol is less often than Dr. Dodd's. I will do titers first. And if certain diseases are not prevalent in my geographic area, I won't worry about them, also considering my dogs' own life style, their risk etc.



> Potentially, vaccines are the stealth bomb of the medical world. They are used to catapult invaders inside the castle walls where they can wreak havoc, with none of us any the wiser. So rather than experiencing frank viral diseases such as the ‘flu, measles, mumps and rubella (and, in the case of dogs, parvovirus and distemper), we are allowing the viruses to win anyway – but with cancer, leukaemia and other inflammatory or autoimmune (self-attacking) diseases taking their place. The Purdue Vaccination Studies and Auto-antibodies - Dogs Naturally Magazine





> Dogs and Puppies
> 
> by Dr. Peter Dobias, DVM
> 
> ...


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

No attack was made on yourself or anyone else who posted in this thread. I simply made a statement. Which basically was to take advise from a GOOD vet. Your advise looks like it comes from the TOP. My other comment concerned the missinformation that I constantly see given high profile by the press. Why you might feel I attacked your good self, I have no Idea?
Eric.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Tabatha said:


> I'm somewhat perplexed by vaccine recommendations, even by Dr. Dodds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Dr. Shultz says to vaccinate at 8-9 weeks then every 2 weeks. Rabies at 4 months and every 3 years afterwards.



Dr. Dodds says to vaccinate at 9-10 weeks then every 3-4 weeks, with the third vaccine being optional, rabies at 5 months and every 3 years afterward.



Both recommend to titer afterward. I don't see how they are that different, other than Dr. Dodds makes the third vaccine optional.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Those people who do distemper/parvo vaccinations every 3 years, do you start that when the dog is 3 years old and eliminate the one-year boosters?

I was going to do a one-year booster vaccination and then start the titers after that. That is the reason I ask.

I am compelled by law when I do the rabies vaccine. So I am just interested in when to do the distemper/parvo.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

MiniPoo said:


> I wanted to follow Dr Dodd's protocols but my vet said she could not get a vaccine with only distemper and parvo in it for just us. They would have to order multiple doses for more than one dog. So we went ahead with a 4 in 1 vaccination that did not have lepto. She said if I wanted parvo/distemper only for the one year booster, let her know a month in advance and they would call around to see if another vet in the area carried it. After the one year booster, I plan to do titers.


Just an fyi for anyone reading who is interested - you can buy monovalent, single dose distemper and parvo vaccines through Revival!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

MiniPoo said:


> Those people who do distemper/parvo vaccinations every 3 years, do you start that when the dog is 3 years old and eliminate the one-year boosters?
> 
> I was going to do a one-year booster vaccination and then start the titers after that. That is the reason I ask.
> 
> I am compelled by law when I do the rabies vaccine. So I am just interested in when to do the distemper/parvo.


My dogs get vaccinated at 1 year and then titered 3 years later at age 4.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

This may be a lot to read. But I think it's something to take in. I was on another dog forum and there was a guy who was apparently an immunologist. I can't remember in detail what all he said, but basically, he thought the same thing as this....that vaccinations destroy immune systems ability. And that so much of what is commonly assumed about vaccines knocking out diseases is over-rated...that many of them were on their way out naturally. He had a lot more compelling argument that I have or have come across so far. But it is nevertheless something to research. 

Vaccines And The Immune System - Dogs Naturally Magazine



> In what may be the most comprehensive review to date on adverse vaccine reactions, neurosurgeon Russell Blaylock has compiled a mass of evidence that repeated stimulation of the brain’s immune system causes it to break down with each successive series of vaccinations. The primary cause of this is vaccine adjuvants which are ironically added for just this purpose.
> 
> Harold E Buttram, MD and Catherine J Frompovich state the following:
> 
> ...


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

I ordered the vaccines from Animal Revival. I gave her neopar (a high titer, low passage vaccine meant to override maternal antibodies) and neovac D, for canine distemper. I had to give them myself because my vet only had 5 in one vaccines and I couldn't do that. Dr. Jean Dodds gave me a the thumb's up when I emailed her on what I was planning on using. 

pr


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