# How can I handle this better?



## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

If someone says to me can Susie pet your dogs, I say straight out, I am sorry I do not allow children around my girls as they are not used to them, and are somewhat afraid of little people. Or they say she wants a dog can she pet her, I say no, but recommend you get her one.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

You had no time to think of anything but protecting your baby and that is okay! I just would have apologized for being abrupt and explained the situation--that she's a service dog in training. In the future, I would make sure to keep some distance from toddlers/young children.


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## AngelAviary (Aug 12, 2014)

I agree with zooeysmom. You did what you needed to do in a quick situation. The worst could of happened on all accounts. I always know where any kids are at all times when I'm out with my pups. I don't have children and they are not really used to being around "small, fast moving, loud, excited people". My Border Collie has taught me to be hypervigile with kids. She instinctually wants to chase down and "herd" anything that is "out of control". Small children can not help their excitement around dogs, especially one as adorable as Noelle! I too would have put myself in between her and the kid and held the child off. Explaining that she is in training and needs no distractions like that child being out of control. If the parent thinks that is rude than so what!! The parent should have stepped in and controlled the child.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I agree that you did what had to be done at the moment and it has taught you how 'over vigilant' you have to be! When I have Molly out in busy public places I have learned to have 360 vision because she is a very big target to little ones with her fluffy hair and smallness! I'm no stranger to being mobbed by a small gaggle of excited kids wanting to touch her! Because she is so small she has an 'up' command that makes her place herself quickly on my scooter at my feet, and that seems to stop the kids in their tracks and I can proceed to 'teach' them how to approach and ask, and how to hold out their hand for the dog to sniff, and how to not pet her on the head,then where they should pet her! I like teaching kids and did several years of volunteer tutoring elementary school kids.........of course unsupervised toddlers loose in a store are another story hahaha!!! 360 vision and placing yourself in front of Noelle ought to work!

P.S. Your pictures are gorgeous!!!!


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

What a beautiful backdrop for Noelle! 
You have to have a phrase loaded for these instant situations. “Dog in training, no contact please”. “Service dog, please ignore”. A short, polite order


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I agree with the others you did the right thing except you might have been a little too harsh perhaps in your voice but not in the message you wanted to send. She's a service dog and not for the public to pet. 

I also don't blame you for being fearful of what a small excited child can do. They are unpredictable and can hurt a dog. I had small child in a stroller throw a toy at Babykins that thankfully missed.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Usually, I'm more prepared. Sorry, no, she's working, is my standard answer, but only if the kid is farther away. I protect Noelle from the Doggie Doggie age group, but I also expect parents to be in charge of their kids. 

We were passing strollers all afternoon without incident, so when we were walking on the path, I just saw another stroller approaching. I assumed, wrongly, the kid was restrained like the other kids were. I did not expect her to leap out and run at us screaming and waving her arms. I was scared for Noelle because this kid was ready to pounce. 

What if Noelle scratched her, or knocked her down? What if the toddler hurt Noelle? What if the kid bit Noelle? What if Noelle bit her? Kids that small are so random you never know what they're going to do. As soon as I saw her coming, I was scared and I didn't have time to think. I guess I did the best I could. 

I still feel bad, though.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

You reacted fast, and it came across as more abrupt than what you would usually say - but perhaps the mother will now take a little more care around dogs. No child should be allowed to run at a strange dog, and the sooner the mother learns that the better for everyone! My two are usually off lead when we have close encounters with children, and can get themselves out of the way - and most children stop and stand still before they or their parents ask if they may pet the dogs. That is the safe and courteous thing to do, and if you came across as impolite it was in response to a risky and impolite approach. Be a bit extra kind to the next few children and parents, explaining why it is important not to distract a working dog, and put it down to experience.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I also think your friend was judging you too harshly. She was ignoring the potentially dangerous situation that the mother was allowing by not having her child properly secured in the stroller.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I don't think you are to blame at all in this situation. It was sudden and your response was urgent as was needed. The only different thing I would hope I would have managed to get out would have been an explanation as to why this was not appropriate rather than simply leaving. Whenever I have enough time to do so I always talk to people about why they should never approach or touch any dog they don't know. To me that applies to all dogs, whether they are working or not.

I have been pretty dumbfounded by how many people have just put their hands on Javelin's head as they pass us in the halls without asking. Sometimes they apologize once they see his harness indicating he is "In Training." Sometimes they keep going so fast I have no chance to explain. At least all of the people we run into are adults.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I've lived with disabling illness for over 44 years. I've had a service dog at my side for 15 years. One thing I learned over a decade ago is to stop educating strangers. Life is too short to stop over and over during every outing, no you can't pet my dog, why you can't pet my dog, what a service dog is, what a service dog does. I tried it. I did. I lasted five years until one day I realized something. 

I'm not a talking educational display in a petting zoo. I'm not a children's public television performer. I'm not a public service announcement. I'm not public entertainment in a sideshow. 

If you can't understand why I feel that way, imagine every trip to the store strangers walked up and asked you questions about your glasses. Why do you wear glasses? Where did you get your glasses? How much did you pay for your glasses? Where can I learn more about glasses? Do you think glasses would help me? 

How soon would you lose your patience with the same questions every day? 

If random kids were snatching your glasses off your face, would you always patiently explain, these are my glasses and you can't touch them. Or would you lose your temper? 

I'm open to educating people about disability. I've given dozens of lectures. I've written books. I've written two blogs. I'm fine with teaching when I want to teach. But, I've quit being the general public service dog educator. It's not my job to teach random strangers service dog etiquette. Just because I choose to mitigate my disability with a service dog does not mean I have to explain myself to strangers. Got a question about service dogs? Ask Google and leave me alone.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Click-N-Treat I totally understand how you feel and no we shouldn't be walking display ads for things that should be social norms, but I guess (so far at least) the educator in me can't help myself. Also since I want my workplace to be more understanding and appropriate I feel like I need to say positive things at least for now.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I wonder if I grew Noelle's topknot large enough if I could clip a stop sign barrette to her head.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

Having trained service dog teams, I may have a slightly different perspective on this... we always emphasized regularly exposing your dog to all types and ages of people when your dog is in training so that when the random "walk by attack" occurs there will not be a negative outcome. Yes, it does involve a lot of extra effort to seek out those groups of people that you are not regularly around, but it is important for your service dog's education. Our household did not have any children, so we had to find controllable situations with babies, toddlers, and school age children to interact with our dogs. We also exposed them to elderly people who used wheelchairs and walkers. Because we live near Camp Pendleton we made it a point for the dogs have positive experiences with Marines and Sailors.The base also provided the dogs exposure to African Americans (Fallbrook probably has two non-military African American families).This exposure may not be critical for a Miniature Poodle, but we had service dog teams comprised of Rottweilers, German Shepherds, and Malinois. These breeds cannot be reacting in a negative fashion; and even shying away would be perceived as aggressive.
I absolutely understand when you get tired of answering questions. I have been there myself. Even when I am tired, I take the extra few minutes to talk to the person who just had their poodle put to sleep. It is just a few minutes, and I can tell it helps the grieving person to feel those poodle curls one more time. As for children, they are in the biggest learning phase of their lives. I want them to remember that the lady with the service dog was nice and that she taught them how to behave around service dogs. Again, I know how you can be bone tired, but I try my hardest to be kind to children, the elderly,and people who address me politely.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I'm glad that you have the strength to still be an educator, Charmed. I'm too burned out. I'm tired of having crowds gather expecting an impromptu service dog lecture. Tired of feeling like I'm on stage in public. All I want is to be left alone. 

I'm not a social person. I find socializing draining. I can't be a public educator everywhere I go. I forced myself to do that for years. Now, I just can't. By ignoring people and going about my business, I hope I'm sending a message that service dogs and their handlers are to be ignored. 

I found a video about training the dog to circle around behind you. Maybe I'll train this skill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=EMR18kAGhug


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

Click-n-treat, thanks for sharing the story, and I think you did a great job. I do hope this lady learns to control her child by using the restraints on the stroller in the future. Or maybe the child will think twice before running up to strange dogs. 

Lol I definitely cannot control my own child very well in public - but he would never run up to an animal as he is very cautious about new people and animals. If he did have that problem, then I would really have to keep an even closer eye on him. As it is, he is already restrained most of the time that we are in public since he is a little difficult to control. So I hope this mom learned something today. Service dog or not, a child should never be able to approach a strange dog without permission from the owner, and really the mom shouldn't have allowed you to be put in that situation.


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## marialydia (Nov 23, 2013)

Click-n-Treat I really sympathise with your story, not because Pericles, or any of my dogs are service dogs, but because some people really don't know how to behave around dogs, even many of those people with dogs!

I've had to pull Pericles back behind me and/or turn around and walk away quickly from toddlers and intoxicated young people rushing toward us (the latter screaming, "What a gorgeous dog!!!"). The crisis of the moment requires rapid action, and what you did was the right thing.

As to what you said, one possibility is to practice saying, "Please don't" in a firm but kind voice while taking evasive action. 

In my neighborhood there are unfortunately a few people who think it's cute or interesting to walk or run their dogs in the parks or off leash along the roadside walks and trails. If I see them I ask them to put their dogs on leash. If they start carrying on about "he's friendly" or "he won't do anything to your dog" or "I like to walk him like this, nothing's every happened", I just now keep repeating, as calmly as I can, "Please put your dog on leash". With one person I've had to repeat this numerous times, while I keep Pericles in a sit.

I don't want to get into a conversation about leash rules in the Homeowners' covenants, it's not fair to others, etc. etc.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

marialydia I was going to ask about leash laws and HOA policies near you as I started reading your post, but I am guessing that they are similar to many/most places and that unleashed dogs are not allowed in public spaces other than dog parks. The unfortunate part of the people with loose dogs who say oh don't worry he's friendly is that they probably don't really know how to read their dogs' body language and they probably don't have the reliability of recall or stay in place that many of us realize is essential for safety for all.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

marialydia,

I've been there, "leash your dog please."
"But he's friendly."

Are you ready for a magic trick that makes strangers leash their dogs 100% of the time?

"Leash your dog!"
"Don't worry, he's friendly."
Point to your dog. "NOT friendly! Leash your dog!"

People dive to leash up their dogs, and as a bonus, give you a wide way around. If you can tolerate dirty looks from strangers, it works like magic. Since I'm not naturally friendly, dirty looks don't bother me. 

However, because I am not naturally friendly, I need to work at responding to intrusive strangers less like a reactive growling dog. Just because I feel like a snarling doesn't mean I have to snarl. I will have to practice more friendly responses to people. 

"Sorry, she working."
"Please don't distract her."

What's a polite way to say, "Back off, shut up, go away and leave me alone?" 
Would, "Back off, shut up, go away, and leave me alone, please," be better? Kidding. Only kidding. 

Got a polite substitute? Let me hear it.


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## HeritageHills (Sep 4, 2017)

Click-N-Treat said:


> marialydia,
> 
> I've been there, "leash your dog please."
> "But he's friendly."
> ...


That's an awesome idea about the leashing  .

I really don't think there's a polite way to say that, lol. What would probably be the best way to express that in a semi-polite way is to not acknowledge them at all. It wouldn't work all the time, but if it's someone wanting you to stop so they could quiz you there is no reason you should be "compelled" to acquiesce. 

As far as the OP I do think that it was harsh, but understandable in the situation. As a mother of very young children I personally know how unpredictable they are. The mother was probably caught off guard as much as you, but if it had been me I would have blurted out, " *child's name* STOP!" instead of, "can they pet..." I don't like my kids to touch strange dogs, and have sought to teach them dog safety because it could be deadly to not. I feel it's my job to teach my children about service dogs, not the owners of them, and I do not permit my children to touch them. You would have to specifically invite them to touch your dog, but in my experience people just want to be left in peace. Which I completely get because every time I go out people comment on my children  . My kids are stair-step and I ALWAYS get, "You've got your hands full" . It doesn't matter how they're acting either good, naughty, or somewhere in between .


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

Click-N-Treat, as far as a polite way to tell people to bug off, I have no problem with, "Please leave us alone. We are in training , and are supposed to keep keep everyone X number of feet away." You can choose the distance you are comfortable with in each given situation.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I have given the "but this dog isn't friendly" response plenty of times. I would rather be able to say "this dog is training/working" and have that do the trick, but people can be idiots. I was in a large chain pet store with Lily and a guy with kids and a dog were in the same aisle. Lily was interested in the kids and I put her on a sit stay for keep her from greeting when out of the blue the dad let the dog come over. Now when I put Lily on the sit I said out loud for the benefit of the other people and the dog something along the lines of "Lily sit and stay, you are working." Apparently my message was incomprehensible. When I asked the man to call his dog back and asked if he hadn't heard me tell her she was working his stupid reply was something of the effect of he had heard me talk to her but not to him. The whole encounter ended with him telling me she had a horrible owner and deserved me since she was obviously a bad dog, really? Lily a bad dog? She stayed on the sit through the whole thing.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

When I need to give a firm, short answer, I just go with "Sorry, no." 'Sorry' makes me sound like a polite member of society, but 'no' is to the point and easily understood. For some reason it gets through to people more clearly than "please don't," which people sometimes interpret as a negotiable request for some reason. "Sorry, no" and keep walking (and/or pull the dog away behind me) does the trick, though. 

I've learned to be hypervigilant around kids because Archie loves them waaay too much (he will yank toward them and try to jump up to lick faces, which is pretty scary for little ones) and Cleo is too unpredictable to have strange people or dogs up in her face unexpectedly. I live right around the corner from an elementary school, which has given them both practice walking past excited kids without too much trouble, but greetings still need to be very controlled. It can definitely get exhausting!

Anyway, I think you did fine. The child and her mom were beyond rude and you responded appropriately to that rudeness. I was a dog-crazy kid from birth, but my mom always made sure I knew to stop, stand still, and ask before meeting any dogs (and I asked every time I saw one). Because she didn't want me to get bitten or scratched, for one thing!

EDIT: "But he's friendly" dogs kind of drive me crazy too, because too many of them decide to 'just try it out' until Cleo freaks out at their dog for running up into her face. Which of course is not at all helpful for her progress. Ugh...


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## galofpink (Mar 14, 2017)

That sounds like such a frustrating situation for you and Noelle, Click. While Noelle needs to be bulletproof to novel situations and be able to deal with the "weird and the wacky", there's no need for that kind of stuff. People just lack common sense in general these days and I bet that makes it really frustrating for all of you training service dogs. 

_A positive redemption story for parents and kids and dogs....
_
Shae and I went to the greenhouse on Saturday to practice walking with distractions. Out of all the people there, it was only a toddler Shae noticed and couldn't ignore. The mom quickly noticed the toddler wanted to bolt toward the puppy, grabbed her hand and started moving toward us, stopping about 10 ft away. They didn't ask to pet, just stood there admiring Shae. I stopped, put Shae in a sit. She stood up, did a puppy bow and a side step quick movement (which kind of startled the toddler) with a woof; they both recovered. I put her back in the sit and they both stared at each other for a little bit.

Besides the little bit of crazy in there by Shae, that's a prefect interaction in my books for a* pet* out and about. I was impressed with the mom who allowed her daughter to look at and appreciate the puppy but also kept her daughter a safe distance away which allowed me to continue to work with Shae and practice attention/not getting super excited. 

There were others that stopped and said what a pretty dog, what a nice haircut, etc...but one thing I love about that greenhouse is that everyone is very good about respecting your space.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Has anyone else found that saying, "We're training," attracts people who want to help you train? Lily a bad dog? What a moron. 

"Sorry, no." Lisasgirl, I like that one. "Sorry," is one of those manners words. "No." short and to the point. Let me practice, Sorry, no. Sorry, no. 

Next time someone's kid launches toward us two feet away, "Danger!" might be a better thing to say. Because it's true. Danger to Noelle more than the kid, of course. Noelle will sit/stay with a toddler eating an ice cream cone a foot away from her. She ignores kids very well. But, danger will get the adult's attention, even if I sound fierce.

A lot of parents follow us around saying, "Doggie doggie. Look at the doggie." I think I'll have to educate, grr, parents on dog bite safety. It's dangerous to encourage small kids to follow strange dogs. Every dog you see is not your kid's future friend, just like every adult you see is not your kid's future friend. 

I have to train the go around and stay behind me trick as a dance move. Hand out in front, stop! Body block for safety. We'll work on that tonight.


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## marialydia (Nov 23, 2013)

Click-N-Treat said:


> Lily a bad dog? What a moron.


Yes to this.

And Catherine and Click-N-Treat, we do have leash rules, and there is no dog park in my immediate neighborhood. When I wanted to move here, one of my non-negotiables was to have a yard where I could have a large enough fenced area, and that is one of the reasons I bought this house. There are other "patio homes" with little land, facing a large park (which has "Dogs must be on leash" signs all around it). Some people who live by the park treat it as a dog run. Idiots.

Then there were the people who had about 5 or 6 toy poodles running around loose in that park. This was when Pericles hadn't mastered (or more truthfully almost mastered) a sit in the face of massive distraction. They come running at us, and I say "Please put your dogs on leash" to which the humans reply, It's ok, they're friendly. I immediately said "well, mine isn't" so they hopped to it. Any one of those cute little dogs weighed one tenth of Pericles. Yeah, let them play...

Who are these people??????


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

I've had people who just pets Lucky without asking even though it says DO NOT PET in big giant letters. I worry more when toddlers pet Kit because she has a tendency to jump and kiss their faces. My husband told me that I should give people a stern warning that Lucky does not like strangers, which should freak people out. I am terrible at lying to people even if it is a white lie. I am also really bad at saying no to people, which usually makes life a little harder because people will swarm around a cute or beautiful dog and it delays your errands substantially. I get stopped at least two or three times everytime I go anywhere with Lucky. On service dog forums, they actually advised to hand out preprinted cards with ADA regulations you can pass it out to folks. This seemed like a good idea so one does not have to deal with rude people.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Snow, 

Please don't tell people Lucky doesn't like strangers. You don't want someone telling a store manager your dog is aggressive. 

To avoid being slowed down in public, you can chatter at the dog about being late for your appointment. That's a good one for avoiding curious strangers. If you don't like lying, make an appointment with your sofa, an alcoholic beverage, and Netflix. That's a real appointment you can't miss. Talk to your dog about being late and oh, we have to hurry, Lucky. 

Another thing I do is if someone admires my dog, I tell them thank you, and start babbling at Noelle about my appointment while moving away. So, make an appointment for a bubble bath, a good book, a video game, anything you want to do after you go shopping. That way you are never lying, but you have a built in excuse.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

lisasgirl said:


> When I need to give a firm, short answer, I just go with "Sorry, no.".


That's a great idea, but I would turn it around.

I would say "NO" sharply - a definite command to stop their behavior, followed with a friendly sounding Sorry. You could add Service Dog, don't touch if you wanted.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I like Skylar's approach of a definitive NO followed by sorry this dog is working or in training for service and can't be petted. I also agree very much with Click-N-Treat that it is not right to tell people Lucky isn't good with strangers. Part of his job is to ignore them, not to growl them away from you or otherwise. If you make people think he might be aggressive then they will look for and find it where it doesn't exist. Cards are not a bad idea, but then the person has to be close enough for you to give it to them and that might be closer than you want them.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Good point, I forgot the first thing that disqualifies a SD is aggression. Lucky is the mildest mannered dog ever. What I usually say is that "Sorry, he is in training and my program does not allow him to interact with people" and then smile awkwardly. He doesn't have a problem with strangers. Paul just thought it was an easy way to make people leave. Although, Lucky does not likes people nearly as much as Kit. He is pretty ambivalent and just doesn't care even when we get visitors.


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## Raven's Mom (Mar 18, 2014)

Click-N-Treat, I teach the blind and therefore am often with folks with guide dogs. I know they feel the same way. They do not want to have give the "service dog" talk anytime they need be out in public. One of my blind colleagues had his dog when we took kids to the zoo once and we laughed so hard at the greater fascination with his dog than the exotic animals all around us. People are so ridiculous!


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

That's crazy. A guide dog is not an exhibit. Good grief, people get a life. Yes the service dog/guide dog talk gets super old super fast. All I want to do is go to Target, buy some random stuff and leave. I didn't go to Target to be come a target of assorted people's service dog fascination. 

I had one guy run up to me, very aggressive, and ask what a diabetes alert dog is. Like there's no such thing. Wasn't a store manager, or anything. Just some random angry guy. I should have said, Google it. But, I was so surprised, I went into the service dog speech. Which led to how are they trained. Which lead to more social interaction than I was up for. 

Sigh.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I think part of the fascination is seeing dogs where you normally don't such as Target or the grocery store. I asked and got permission to take Babykins inside a Walmart which also sells groceries. I was clear she was a therapy dog, not service dog, and she was wearing her TDI therapy tags. the store manager gave his permission. The item I was looking for was at the far back of the store. I was unprepared for people to stop me to pet her. What surprised me was two people stopped me to ask where they could find service dogs for medical needs. Have you gotten those questions?


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

My daughter was only sixteen when she started working her own service dog. She very much wanted to go about her business, and be left alone. We would go places together; I would take one for the team, and deal with the yakkies, while my daughter would slink away to do her own thing. We did work on her knowing how to deal with the issue independently, but sometimes I could tell she was tired. Also, and I could not believe this one, she would wear sunglasses while browsing books in the bookstore, usually with one ear bud on listening to music. She said that it discouraged most people from bothering her, except for the one guy who asked, "If you are really blind, how can you read??" She said that she just ignored him, and he walked away mumbling, "She must be deaf."


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## galofpink (Mar 14, 2017)

This popped up on my Facebook feed this morning - timely posting by a friend who normally doesn't post about such things. Has some pretty cool promo pics at the bottom of the article.

_"Many people have a vague sense of awareness that Service Dogs “help” their person and that they’re allowed to be in public, but there’s a lot more to Service Dog handlers and teams than meets the eye. To help fill in the holes, here are the top 10 things Service Dog handlers want every member of the public to know and understand..."
_
https://www.anythingpawsable.com/10-things-service-dog-handlers-want-know/


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

galofpink that is an awesome piece. I wish the ADA person at my workplace would read it. since he has never replied directly to any of my emails I have no clue what he really does or doesn't understand. He still thinks I have to "request" a service dog as a "reasonable accommodation."


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

galofpink, 

Thank you for sharing. I think a lot of those pictures would make good service dog patches. Like, "if you wouldn't do it to a stranger's kid, don't do it to me."

Lily,

Does the ADA have different accommodation rules at work? I hope you get this straightened out soon.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Skylar said:


> The item I was looking for was at the far back of the store. I was unprepared for people to stop me to pet her. What surprised me was two people stopped me to ask where they could find service dogs for medical needs. Have you gotten those questions?


Oh, a diabetes alert dog.
What do diabetes alert dogs do?
How do are they trained?
Where did you get her?
How much does it cost?

I want to buy some random stuff, not give a speech. Please go away. I really struggle with this in public. Right now, Noelle is wearing a Diabetes Alert Dog patch. I go back and forth on whether or not I want to identify her that way. But at the same time, diabetes can knock me down so far I can't help myself.

http://www.poodleforum.com/23-gener...alert-dog-training-update-24.html#post2938761

I realize it can be helpful to id Noelle's job that way, but at the same time, it invites questions 99% more often than it helps. So, I could get an in case of emergency card and have her carry that, and have her wear Medical Alert patches instead. 

We'll be upgrading her gear in November to mark one year of training and working together. My current favorite patch is this one.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I wear this and carry a card
There is an id # and phone # engraved on the otherside along with my ailment.
I pay for a service that has all my medical info in one spot doctors and meds, I can update as needed.

It's no one's business what my ailment is, my previous job asked all employees if they had an medical issues or took meds, could they make up a list after a co-worker had a seizure at work. Told them "I wear a medic alert bracelet and that is enough for you to know" them asking was wrong on six levels.

I don't think you were harsh telling them "NO!" and people should have the common decency not to point, not to bother or accost a person trying to go about their day. Prople should remember to respect one another.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Click-N-Treat I still have not rescheduled that meeting from last week. I have been dealing with a colds/allergies and just haven't felt my best so not really willing to have a face off over this. I chatted about a few thing with my department chair today, including this and she has not heard anything further from the AAO/ADA compliance person. I will call his office during my office hours tomorrow and hope that maybe we can just talk on the phone to get resolution. One of the problems with scheduling this meeting is that he is not a classroom person and his office assistant doesn't seem to have a clue about time constraints imposed on my by actually having to go do the job of teaching students. Title I of the ADA is about workplace accommodations and apparently it doesn't address service animals specifically at all. Perhaps I will chalk some of this up to these admins being familiar with Title I more than the other parts of the ADA.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Ah, Lily, I thought that was the issue at work, reasonable accommodations. I wonder who gets to decide what is reasonable, the person with the disability or the employer? A dog that retrieves small items and helps you balance, to me, is perfectly reasonable. I hope your employer agrees with me. There are things a dog can do for a person with a disability that fosters a sense of mastery over a situation. Look, if you drop the same pencil nine times in a row, a dog will pick it up nine times in a row. If you drop a pencil nine times in a row, a human is going to get frustrated and say, "Can't you hang on to it for once?" Dogs do not shame the way people do. 

I am hopeful that things go well for you. Feel better soon.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

twyla said:


> View attachment 410938
> 
> I wear this and carry a card
> There is an id # and phone # engraved on the otherside along with my ailment.
> ...


Thank you for this. I have a necklace that says the same things, and an app on my phone. If I get a patch that says Medical Alert Dog, how do I respond to strangers that say, "What's a medical alert dog?" Or worse, "What's wrong with you?"

Knowing me, I would say something horribly inappropriate such as, "I'll tell you about my medical condition after you tell me about your rectal exam."

Maybe I'll just go with Service Dog.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

FYI (since I handle parts of this professionally), in the US all disability accommodations are subject to the "reasonable accommodation" heading in the workplace, including everything from medical equipment to changes in break times to service animals. The employer and employee are supposed to engage in what's called an "interactive process," which is essentially a conversation/negotiation in which they determine the best way to make sure the employee can do their job without undue hardship on the company. It can be an annoying hoop to have to jump through, for sure, especially if you need an accommodation that the company isn't as used to seeing.

That said, generally an accommodation is only unreasonable if it interferes with the company's ability to function. So unless the presence of a service dog would pose some kind of health or safety risk, the workplace should allow them. 

Just thought I'd clarify that they aren't automatically allowed in the workplace under the ADA, since it came up. Sorry if that's derailing!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

lisasgirl that doesn't derail anything. I am hoping that I will be able to have a reasonable conversation with the ADA officer and that he will agree with me that having Javelin with me for assistance is acceptable. The college does not have to provide anything other than permission for him to be with me.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

With our service dog teams, nosy medical questions were so common that we had to address them. As you can imagine, personal questions were a huge deterrent to agoraphobics. We would break into pairs and take turns asking, "What's wrong with you??!" Then, the person with the service dog would reply, "HIPAA laws prevent me from answering that question." This way when the teams actually were accosted in public they had practiced a response. Don't worry, we always carried the practice scenes out with several different endings depending on the persistence of the nosy person.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Charmed said:


> With our service dog teams, nosy medical questions were so common that we had to address them. As you can imagine, personal questions were a huge deterrent to agoraphobics. We would break into pairs and take turns asking, "What's wrong with you??!" Then, the person with the service dog would reply, "HIPAA laws prevent me from answering that question." This way when the teams actually were accosted in public they had practiced a response. Don't worry, we always carried the practice scenes out with several different endings depending on the persistence of the nosy person.


I like HIPPA Laws, that's a good one. I'll have to remember that to keep from saying something rude. 

Depending on the situation I have: 
"No, sorry."
"Sorry, no."
"Sorry, she's working."
"Don't say hi to service dogs."
"Ignore us please."
"HIPPA laws prevent me from answering that question."

It's hard going out when being social with strangers takes effort. I'm not good at small talk. I'm not good in groups. I lead a mostly solitary life and work a solitary job. Feeling frazzled because I'm out of my comfort zone, and having to be nice to someone annoying, is hard work. Having phrases figured out in advance is helping me a lot.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

It's annoying that we don't have more socially acceptable ways to say "I don't want to talk to you." That said, I don't think you're obligated to have conversations with people just because they want them. It's OK to brush people off sometimes and just walk away - they'll get over it. But "I'm in a hurry" or "I don't have time to talk right now" works if you'd rather have an excuse.

This is reminding me of a blog post about "social entrapment" that I think you'd find really funny: Hyperbole and a Half: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Yes, that Hyperbole And A Half post is how I feel every time I leave my house. How can I get from point A to point B without an awkward social interaction with someone I don't know, or barely know?

Talk to off cellphone is probably my favorite solution. I have carried on animated conversations with no one to avoid people. 
Chatty person incoming, quick, grab phone. "Hi! So, what did he say? Uh-huh." Wave bye bye.

It's also a way to get into a building when a cluster of children are selling scout stuff, raffle tickets, etc. If you see them from your car, grab your phone, chatter on to no one, and walk on by.

I wish I was more social offline, but I'm just... not. I live with two other extreme introverts. My family, on a vacation, drove from Toledo, Ohio all the way to Gary Indiana without speaking once. Not because we were angry, but because we had nothing to say. We have texted each other all day. It's not uncommon for the three of us to go hours without talking. We are all super quiet people. 

Then we go out into the world of lights, and sounds, and people who just can't stop talking. I find it jarring and overwhelming. Add in a service dog and I'm drained even more by the curious who intrude. 

Perhaps I'll have a custom 4x6 inch giant patch made that says:
Privacy Please 
Do Not Talk To Us

Do you think that would be OK? Too rude? Sigh. Ever wish you could flip a switch and become someone else?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I am British. We talk about the weather. Anything more personal is intrusive and impolite unless you know someone very well - although complimentary remarks about each other's dogs are OK if not taken to excess. Our weather is of the very useful kind too - "What a lovely puppy - how old is he? Ah well, must push on before the rain starts again!", "Glorious day - must push on before the dogs get too hot!", "Isn't it foul? Must push on before the dogs get too cold and wet!". Most people limit themselves to a nod, a smile, and "Good morning!" but if necessary we have polite weather remarks for every eventuality.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Sounds good to me. It's hard to be a quiet person in American society. A smile, a nod, and good morning, too often becomes an instant invitation for a conversation I don't want to have. Excuses to leave are why I am always rushing to appointments. 90% of the time it is an appointment with a book alone in my room. Sorry, can't stay and chat or I'll be late for my appointment. Hard being low social in a high social society, but I find ways around it. 

I've got to go run the grocery store gauntlet now. Wish me luck.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

I think your response was absolutely correct. First of all, people need to be educated about service dogs - no petting unless invited to do so. Secondly, people need to control their children! A child who is allowed to handle animals without an invitation to do so is at great risk of being hurt.

I am a great admirer of Noelle (and of you, too!), and have been following your posts with great interest.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Aw, thanks Johanna.

I'm still considering what kind of new gear to get Noelle. I'm liking the idea of a custom made Privacy Please patch more and more. Says what I need to say without being rude, well, at least not too rude. I'll have to think it through some more.


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## LizzysMom (Sep 27, 2016)

I think the "STOP, IGNORE ME PLEASE" patch is a good choice. Also, while I wouldn't go out of my way to DELIBERATELY be rude in your place, I also wouldn't worry about coming across that way to the general public. People you are likely to come across on a regular basis may need a little more patient explanation, but, otherwise, who cares? You're never going to see them again, and if a chance encounter with a "rude" stranger has a lasting effect on their lives, they have bigger issues anyhow!


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

LizzysMom said:


> I think the "STOP, IGNORE ME PLEASE" patch is a good choice. Also, while I wouldn't go out of my way to DELIBERATELY be rude in your place, I also wouldn't worry about coming across that way to the general public. People you are likely to come across on a regular basis may need a little more patient explanation, but, otherwise, who cares? You're never going to see them again, and if a chance encounter with a "rude" stranger has a lasting effect on their lives, they have bigger issues anyhow!


No, I do think that Click-N-Treat does have to be concerned with how the general public regards her. Her behavior shouldn't be seen by the average person as mean or angry etc. Her message should be polite and clear not to pet and to ignore them as they go about their daily activities the way they would anyone else. You can't assume that you will never see strangers again. Noelle is a very cute poodle wearing a service dog harness - she stand outs and will be memorable to some people. You never know when you will run into a stranger in other circumstances where you need to interact with them. You don't want to set off on a bad footing with someone. Maybe that new circumstance is an important business meeting. She is wise to carefully consider how to proceed. Obviously you can't please everyone, but you can find a comfortable approach that works with most people.

I'm shocked at how many random strangers "know" my dog - they know her name and they remember it months later. I've been at the mall shopping and someone will come up and say "is that Babykins" we saw her walking in the park last year". I know if I put a service dog vest on her - even more people would remember her. People remember.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I actually agree with Skylar. I frequent the same stores and often see the same people. It's important for Noelle to be well behaved and happy working, and for me to be aloof. Just aloof and doing my own thing, not interrupting anyone. Scowling and snapping at people is not my normal way of being. This was an emergency situation with one random kid lunging at Noelle in a scary way. 

The last thing I need is for happy Noelle to become afraid of kids and growl at them. We all know one bad experience can trouble our dogs for a long time afterward. I was trying to prevent a disaster. For the most part in public we're just a team going about our business. Lately I've been working on appearing aloof and task focused. If someone says something about my dog, I say a quick thank you and move on. It's working out well so far. Cross your fingers that things keep going well.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Today in the grocery store line, a child of the doggie doggie age, his mom, and three other kids under six were in front of me. Mom and the youngest boy came over to say hi to Noelle. I stepped over her and blocked them. I told the mom, please don't greet service dogs. You have to pretend service dogs are invisible. Then I told the little boy to only look at service dogs when he closes his eyes. And the best way to pet a service dog is with his hands behind his back. He put his hands behind his back and closed his eyes. 

His mother started laughing. Everyone in the lines around us started laughing. Noelle chilled in her down/stay by my cart. Hilarious!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

If only all encounters were like this and fun teachable moments.


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## galofpink (Mar 14, 2017)

That's a wonderful experience, for all!

Click-N-Treat -in your area, are there any awareness programs running to highlight respecting service dogs and their handlers? More specifically in the schools.

My respect for service dogs, handlers and giving them space was formed rather early in my life. There was a lady in the town where I went to school who trained service dogs. Black labs, mostly, trained for minors. She was very involved in the community and she was also the crossing guard at the elementary school. Many kids crossed there every day and learned to ignore and respect that the dog was working. I think it was a wonderful way to educate the public from the ground up. 

Interested in becoming a crossing guard?  j/k


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

School assemblies might be better.


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

Galofpink it is wonderful that the school you went to was so proactive about teaching these things. The other day I was at the library, and just happened to be there during a time where they have therapy dogs come in and children can read a book to them. I stayed awhile and was observing while my son looked at books (he did not want to read to the dogs, but we were in the same room.) I really appreciated this program that they were doing because for every child that approached the dogs, their owners taught them exactly what they should do when approaching a strange dog. Approach slowly and calmly, ask if it is okay to pet the dog, reach under the dogs chin to pet, etc. It was really great and I am happy that they have this program at our libraries here. I believe it is once a month, but there are several branches of the library so they probably go to about 4-5 libraries per month with those dogs. It reminded me of this thread, and I wish that every child would get that kind of an education, especially when the parents are clueless and not doing a good job of educating their children about dogs on their own.


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