# When should tpoo have first puppy cut for show?



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Ah I do believe the show puppy trim is completely scissored, those who know better will chime. Leonard came home in a show puppy trim, not something I could maintain :wink:.
I scissor everyone topknots when I want them long . The longest clipper blade I have found is 3/4HT and steel comb attachment 1"

Adult Poodle coats aren't shiny, but as pups the girls were Beatrice's, she was darker brown then and Pia's, her torso was dark blue almost black then.

I home groom so I only have so much experience. 
Again other folks will probably chime in.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I can't say anything much about the grooming, but since I sense you really want to play with Bella at different kinds of things I would suggest training for obedience, rally and/or agility. I have seen some awesome tpoos in performance sports. Whatever you do the most important thing is fun!


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

No clipping except face feet base of tail. the rest is all scissored.
I would start putting shape on at 4-5 months. A) dog has to get used to lots of grooming, standing properly. B) you can see what you got under the hair
You should be already bathing and properly drying weekly and he looks to be long enough to start banding at least over the eyes. you want to make sure the puppy is very used to banding at a young age.
You do not want 'curliness' in the coat. You want a dog that WOULD curl, but you want to be training that hair to be straight for trimming and show.
If you really want to show AKC you need to find a good show groomer. I suggest going to shows and finding one there. You should be going to shows anyways asap to start learning. Take handling classes as well.
I use a few different shampoos but I would look into K9Competition (aloe or keratin for maintenance, strip for monthly strips)


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I would also look for a club that offers conformation classes and start taking one ASAP. You’ll not only learn how to show your dog but you will find out who in your area grooms poodles to meet the requirements of the show ring as well as other useful resources and a possible mentor if you don’t have one. 

I also agree with Catherine about taking the obedience classes heading towards competition. The two clubs where I train both have several levels of obedience classes after puppy basics leading up to and prepare you to start the classes for competition rally and obedience. Those classes also help prepare you for agility because your dog will have learned good impulse control and how to follow your direction. I have quite a few classmates in my competition obedienc, rally and agility classes that are also doing conformation.


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

Hi Vita! Sorry if I repeat things that have already been said (you have some great answers here already) I just wanted to share my experience with growing puppy coat for the first time. My girl just turned 6 months so she is just a little older than Bella. Here are some tips that I think may be helpful for you!

1. Yes - you definitely want to start shaping Bella's hair before her first shows. There are a few reasons for this but one of the main reasons is that as the hair grows out, if it is never trimmed, the ends are kind of stringy dead puppy fur. By clipping off those stringy ends, you will have a nice thick luscious coat underneath that will be exposed. You also want to start clipping early in case you need to make adjustments to the trim. The show clip is slightly different for every dog since every dog is built a little differently. 

2. Finding an expert to help you set in the trim will be a big benefit. It must be fully hand scissored besides FFT. I used to be a professional groomer and I am even terrified to cut into my pups coat, for fear that I will do irreparable damage and ruin her chances to show. Our breeder has helped me set in the pattern 3 times so far. Once before she came home at 8 weeks, once at probably 3 months old, and once just a couple of days ago at 6 months. I also practiced on my own at around 4 months. By keeping her in trim, it keeps her hair healthy, and is also easier to maintain and bathe/dry.

3. Bella is so darling in her curls but I would definitely recommend drying her hair straight after every bath. This is usually done with a high velocity "force" dryer and a fluff dryer. With a toy puppy you may be able to get away with using a blow dryer just make sure that it is on a no heat setting so she doesn't get burned. You want to train the hair to stay straight. This is especially important if any scissoring will be done because without stick-straight hair you will never be able to get a nice even trim with scissors.

4. I don't know if Bella wears a collar but if so, you can't really keep a collar on a dog that is growing show coat. It damages the neck hair, which is the holy grail of the show trim. I am just including this info just in case Bella ever wears a collar.

5. Start putting rubber bands in her topknot (Lainee ltd makes the ones that I use - they don't break hair.) Never ever trim the hair on the top knot or around the eyes, on the ears, or the back of the neck. Everything else can be trimmed down a bit.

6. Watch the videos on the fb page Mastering Poodles (with Ann and Alison) Watch them many many times if you decide to try and clip Bella yourself. They have 2-3 puppy show clip vids on there, including one that shows scissoring in a clip on a puppy that has never been scissored and is a little older, I think 8-9 months. The videos should be very helpful in at least showing you what all goes into the puppy trim.

Wishing you luck! I will attach pics of Luna after I practiced on her around 4 months, then one showing her a couple of weeks ago after a bath (she was getting shaggy) and then one after her trim a couple of days ago.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Oh dear!!! Definitely time to give some shape to that girl. Ideally you start with the show puppy trim from their very first haircut, before they ever leave the breeder. IE - pups started on show trim no later than 8-9 weeks. And then they should be ideally clipped and scissored every 1-2 months or so. It's a lot easier if you only have to do small amounts at a time as opposed to having to style a massive amount of fluff into a show trim!

A show puppy trim is completely scissored. You don't use any clippers anywhere on the body. The only place clippers are used is for face, feet and tail and this should be done with a 30 or 40 blade for show.

Also, if you plan to take her to a groomer, unless it is someone who has shown poodles before, I would not expect to end up with a legit show trim....

As far as shampoos go....I'm not so sure about any of those you linked. I would stick with something by K9 Competition, Chris Christensen, or even TreSemme human shampoo.

So...if you are serious about showing her, your job is to find someone accessible to you who is experienced in showing poodles and see if they can set the pattern for a proper show trim.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

chinchillafuzzy said:


> I will attach pics of Luna after I practiced on her around 4 months, then one showing her a couple of weeks ago after a bath (she was getting shaggy) and then one after her trim a couple of days ago.


Your girl is very lovely! <3


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

CharismaticMillie said:


> chinchillafuzzy said:
> 
> 
> > I will attach pics of Luna after I practiced on her around 4 months, then one showing her a couple of weeks ago after a bath (she was getting shaggy) and then one after her trim a couple of days ago.
> ...


Thank you CM! I absolutely adore having a show prospect puppy and having the fun puppy clip! I definitely could not do it without the help of my breeder though, who lives very close. Looking like we won't be to a show until the very end of March so she will already be 10 months old.

Vita - that is something I forgot to tell you, if you want to enter Bella in a show at 12 months or later she will have to be in a continental clip (or English saddle if you prefer.) So I would encourage you to find some shows to enter before she reaches that age. If there are no shows nearby that you want to attend after she turns 10-11 months you can even put her in an adult clip early, so that the pattern can be well set by the time she is entered.


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

YOU ALL ARE GREAT! 

Thank you for the fantastic guidance. Bella, get ready for your first blow out!

(Will upload pic afterwards!)


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Vita, if you do not already have it, you might want to buy a copy of Shirlee Kalstone's book Poodle Clipping and Grooming. It's a very old book, but still valid for both pet and show grooming. You can find used copies for under $5.


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

*Bella's 1st topnot*

Previously I used to towel dry her then let her dry naturally in a fresh towel, then lightly brush and comb her. So Friday evening I gave her another bath with my available shampoo/conditioner (I have Mysticrealm's recommended K9 Competition products on order, can't wait to get it), followed by blow drying her and combing out small matts.

That was a BIG JOB. 

Her fur was an ashy black, however, as though depleted of oils. Could this be b/c last week I soaked her Glo-Coat a few days ago??? Any idea when her natural oils will be restored?

 
Poor baby, she looked terrible. 

I rubbed in some of my favorite hair conditioner with contains castor oil & shea butter (ideal for processed, relaxed or color bleached hair), and it gives a nice shine. By Saturday afternoon Bella's coat was looking pretty good. 

Tonight I brushed and combed her out again. She's grown enough hair for a small topnot. Here's how she looks now:



Next step: find a groomer who can scissor her first poodle puppy clip. Thank you PF friends again for any feedback.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Vita she’s so cute. 

Do you have a high velocity dryer? When you’re finished blowing your dog, the fur should be as straight as possible with no waves or curls to it. If you are using a regular human type hair dryer you have to be very careful not to burn your dog and you have to be brushing the hair at the same time to straighten it. It’s easier with a high velocity blow dryer once you learn the technique but it’s still tedious. 

There’s a lot to learn but what is great is that with the help here and you tube videos you will gain the skills for home grooming. But for showing Bella you will need a professional groomer with the skills to groom for the show ring.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

She looks good but she doesn’t have straight hair like is needed for show. 

You need to use a slicker brush and brush her at the same time you are blow drying. You only do one little section at a time, until it is straight and dry.

When looking for your groomer, many will say they can do a puppy clip, but they are talking about a very different puppy clip than required for show. Only use a show poodle groomer. Those are rare, so you need to get into the poodle show circle to find one. First time I asked a groomer (she was also a poodle breeder, but didn’t show which I had wrongly assumed she did) to do a show puppy clip for my dog, here is what I got :


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

For a show coat, only use a slicker on the legs and possibly on the tail. You can also slicker the short hair in front of the tail. On all the rest of the coat you must use a pin brush.

There are many brands of brushes and slickers. Be sure the ends of the pins/wires are smooth and rounded so they do not tear the coat or irritate the skin. I would avoid using a curved slicker at all.

You can also use a Mason-Pearson type brush, but they are horribly expensive - I have a very small one for Zoe from Chris Christensen for which I paid $45. I bought a real Mason-Pearson for my daughter for $200 (I love my daughter's long blond hair - and it is rather fragile).


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Dechi said:


> When looking for your groomer, many will say they can do a puppy clip, but they are talking about a very different puppy clip than required for show. Only use a show poodle groomer. Those are rare, so you need to get into the poodle show circle to find one. First time I asked a groomer (she was also a poodle breeder, but didn’t show which I had wrongly assumed she did) to do a show puppy clip for my dog, here is what I got :


oh my. Not what you were expecting.

I echo what Dechi said, the great majority of groomers will not be able to do a show groom.


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

Skylar said:


> ... Do you have a high velocity dryer? When you’re finished blowing your dog, the fur should be as straight as possible with no waves or curls to it...There’s a lot to learn but what is great is that with the help here and you tube videos you will gain the skills for home grooming. But for showing Bella you will need a professional groomer with the skills to groom for the show ring.


No, I used my blow drying on low heat. Do the high velocity dryers have or need heat? I ask b/c I looked at one at chewy.com and another at Cesar Millan, and neither have heat. Doesn't the dog get cold? Should I keep looking for one with heat? 



Mysticrealm said:


> No clipping except face feet base of tail. the rest is all scissored... I would start putting shape on at 4-5 months... you want to make sure the puppy is very used to banding at a young age.
> You do not want 'curliness' in the coat. You want a dog that WOULD curl, but you want to be training that hair to be straight for trimming and show.
> If you really want to show AKC you need to find a good show groomer...
> Take handling classes as well... I use a few different shampoos but I would look into K9Competition (aloe or keratin for maintenance, strip for monthly strips)


Mysticrealm, your other advice was excellent too, again, thank you. The hair training has begun! And the K9 Competition shampoo & conditioner is on order. I hope it addresses the ashy black color or fur oil depletion I mentioned, what do you think? 



Dechi said:


> She looks good but she doesn’t have straight hair like is needed for show. You need to use a slicker brush and brush her at the same time you are blow drying. You only do one little section at a time, until it is straight and dry... First time I asked a groomer (she was also a poodle breeder, but didn’t show which I had wrongly assumed she did) to do a show puppy clip for my dog, here is what I got (pic)


Dechi, I would have been in tears. I seriously wonder if that groomer intentionally sabotaged your dog _if_ she knew you planned to show her. And, I've began to do as Mysticrealm advised me, to start training her hair. 



chinchillafuzzy said:


> ...
> 5. Start putting rubber bands in her topknot (Lainee ltd makes the ones that I use - they don't break hair.)...
> 
> 6. Watch the videos on the fb page Mastering Poodles (with Ann and Alison) Watch them many many times if you decide to try and clip Bella yourself... The videos should be very helpful in at least showing you what all goes into the puppy trim...


I found the FB page really good; Allison showed a technique on 9/6 on how to get your puppy to lay down for grooming. I wish I had seen it when Bella was 10 weeks old, but she did pretty good.

See Bella's first topnot? I'm really proud of that! Sure it's not professional level yet, but that I got her to tolerate it and that she now has enough hair for a tiny one was a thrill. I used a no-break-hair band for humans, but didn't keep it in long since it's not for poodles.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Vita, you’re right I was very disappointed. But in my case I was trying to transition my dog from an adult show groom to a show puppy groom, just because I wasn’t going to show him and I liked the show puppy look (even though he was an adult).

Have fun with Bella !


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Vita said:


> No, I used my blow drying on low heat. Do the high velocity dryers have or need heat? I ask b/c I looked at one at chewy.com and another at Cesar Millan, and neither have heat. Doesn't the dog get cold? Should I keep looking for one with heat?


My high velocity blow dryer does have heat, but not all of them do. They blow air at a very high speed - think jet airplane engine noise with a hurricane force winds - and in doing so the motor heats up and does warm the air. You also must have variable speed because you will use it at full speed on the legs and body, but around the face you want to lower the speed down to a comfortable level.

With the high velocity dryers you're literally blowing the water off the fur while forcing the hair to be straight - where as with a human hair dryer you're using the heat to dry the moisture off the hair as you pull it straight with a brush.

I bought the one that MollyMuiMa recommended and I've been happy with it https://www.ebay.com/itm/162095985352 My professional groomer has an even more powerful one than mine - more noisy too. With her experience and dryer she can get my dog's coat even straighter than I can. Hers cost hundreds of dollars more than mine. But my dog's hair is pretty straight. I do start with heat then turn it off as the motor heats up if my house is cold. My dog has a very thick and beautiful poodle coat.

Caesar Milan is not a dog groomer - I wouldn't pay extra for something that he is being paid for to endorse. 

When you do show Bella, you will want to pay the professional to groomer her for the show - the dryer you buy will be used to keep her washed/dried in between shows.


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

Skylar said:


> ...When you do show Bella, you will want to pay the professional to groomer her for the show - the dryer you buy will be used to keep her washed/dried in between shows.


Skylar, true to the above; no way I feel competent to scissor her hair.

And the dryer on ebay is $17 cheaper than on Amazon. Thanks!


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

Most black or blue show dogs are dyed, so don't expect a non dyed dog to look nearly that black.
You need to get her much straighter. Here's a video I did bathing and drying.
The 'straightening' with a regular dryer (mine is a stand dryer, but you can do the same thing with a human hair dryer but you have to tuck it under your chin or hold it on your shoulder so you can have your hands free) starts at about 13:45 on the video. See how I'm brushing as I dry? And you want to brush/dry opposite the way the hair naturally lies (so UP the leg as an example). I use a slicker for everything except the long neck/head/ear hair. That is with a pin brush.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

About the ashy color of her coat, it sounds like she may either be blue or just an off black. No worries. I'd focus right now simply on getting the coat properly bathed and blown out. It should have no curl to it. And no more bathing and towel drying allowed unless her body is shaved down. That will cause matting.


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

Mysticrealm said:


> Most black or blue show dogs are dyed, so don't expect a non dyed dog to look nearly that black. You need to get her much straighter. Here's a video I did bathing and drying... See how I'm brushing as I dry? And you want to brush/dry opposite the way the hair naturally lies (so UP the leg as an example). I use a slicker for everything except the long neck/head/ear hair. That is with a pin brush.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lGvVO9353I&t=226s


Mysticrealm, sorry for the delay in responding; I didn't see that your comment had been posted. Thank you for sharing this, I see what you mean. Also Asher is superbly well-behaved. 

Someone mentioned in the comments about earplugs. Do they have these for dogs?


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

You can use cotton balls in the ears, or a happy hoodie (or both)
Happy Hoodie Dog Calming Product Order Page


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I don't know about earplugs for dogs, but I put this on my dog - a snood by Happy Hoodie. It muffles the noise and keeps their ears away from the high velocity dryer until I'm ready to focus on them properly. I wouldn't want that forced air being forced into her ear.

Happy Hoodie For Groomers


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