# Puppy not eating enough



## Charliethespoo (4 mo ago)

Hi! 

When we got Charlie at 12 weeks, he was a kibble monster! Absolutely loved his food, and as soon as the food bag was coming out his tails would be wagging and he would finish it all in one go! 

He's 19 weeks now, and for about a week, he's been way less enthusiastic about his food and I feel he isn't eating as much as he should. 

The food brand recommendation for his age and weight is about 4 cups a day, and its quite a struggle to make him finish 3. 

Before he actually goes and eat his food after its served, sometimes a good hour goes by and he never seems enthusiastic about it, also never finishes it in one go anymore. 

Has this happened to any of your pups? I was considering maybe changing his food, I thought he might have gotten bored of it.
I'm only concerned because he's growing a lot at that age and is still eating like he was about a month ago! 

Thanks!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

My pups have always gone through hungry phases when they were in a growth spurt, then not-very-hungry spells in between. If he is otherwise lively and his digestion is good I would not worry too much, but it is always worth considering whether you may have a stale or slightly off bag of food. How long has the bag been open? Did the loss of appetite coincide with opening a new bag? Both might indicate a dodgy bag.


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

I’ve never worried much about Rhonda’s eating habits. I free feed her, same as when she was with her breeder. Some days she’ll eat 1.5 cups and other days 4.0. She’s been through growth spurts when she will eat more, then she tapers off. I’ll top off her kibble with some chicken breast every now and then. I’d worry if she didn’t eat at all.


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

Amounts given on the dog food bag are always high--they want to sell more food and don't care if your dog gets fat. When Zephyr was a pup I was sure he was not eating enough and was too skinny; he was never enthusiastic about eating and would walk away from a bowl. In time I started going by his condition, and not paying so much attention to how much he ate. As long as he was active and had plenty of energy I figured he was eating "enough". At six yo he is lean and healthy and wonderfully athletic, still not a big eater.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

4 cups at 19 weeks seems like an awful lot. 3 cups seems about right (for Purina pro plan anyway). Approx 425 kcals/cup. If his behavior is normal, I wouldn't worry about it. What brand / how many calories?


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

I agree that four cups a day for a 4 month old pup seems on the high side.However, the recommended amounts on tha package are just that. Recommendations.I'll use them as a starting point, and adjust up or down as my dog's body condition indicates. If they start looking pudgy, I'll cut back a bit. If they start looking thin, I'll add a bit more per meal. 

As for why he's not eating as much, he's at the age where they start teething in earnest, so it's possible that his mouth hurts.You might want to moisten it, so it's not as crunchy, and see if that makes a difference. 

Another thing to consider is if his food has gone stale. It's it's a huge bag of kibble, and it's been open a while, it might be starting to go off. Or you could have simply gotten a bad bag. 

Also, you are setting yourself up for creating a picky eater. Fix his food, put it down, and walk away. If he hasn't eaten all of it in ten to twenty minutes, pick it up and don't give him anything until his next scheduled meal. Don't add things to try and get him to eat more. Just the kibble, with maybe some water in it, and no extra goodies.Once he's eating well again, you can add extra toppers, but again, not in an attempt to get him to eat more of any given meal.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Another thing to keep in mind is that the recommended feeding amounts are generally calculated as if that food is the only food. It doesn't include treats or snacks. It is only a guideline.

Are you feeding him a large breed puppy formula? If he's projected to reach 50 lbs or over as an adult, his food should have less fat to slow down growth. This is to reduce the possibility of developmental orthopedic diseases.


Copied from another recent thread:

_So long as he's growing and gaining, and your vet is knowledgeable of poodle body condition vs general dog population and is not concerned, trying to get him to eat more won't necessarily be good for his health.
Unless there is some kind of health issue that keeps him from eating, poodles are known to self-regulate. Intake is often related to growth spurts.

The large-breed foods are formulated to slow down growth, which is better for orthopedic development in the short and long term.

The trick here is whether the large-breed food is better for him. If he's likely to be under 50lbs as an adult, it may not be as critical. This is something to go over with your vet.


Excerpts from What is Large Breed Puppy Food – Puppy Food for Large Breed Dogs | PetMD

Puppies that are going to grow up to be big dogs are predisposed to developmental orthopedic diseases (DOD) like osteochondritis dissecans and hip and elbow dysplasia. (I use an adult weight of 55 pounds as my somewhat arbitrary division between medium and large dogs.) Nutrition, or to be precise, over-nutrition, is an important risk factor of DOD.

The number one goal when it comes to feeding large breed puppies is to avoid overfeeding, particularly when it comes to calories. By restricting caloric intake slightly, we can slow the puppy’s rate of growth. They still get as big as they would otherwise; it just takes them a little longer to get there. Puppies fed in this way are also slim, which decreases the load that their maturing frames need to carry. Large breed puppy foods achieve these results by having a reduced fat content, and since fat is the most calorie-dense nutrient category in food, the diet is therefore somewhat restricted in calories.

In general, foods designed for large breed puppies have a fat content of between 8% and 12% on a dry matter basis while standard puppy foods often contain between 10% and 25% fat. Of course, the benefits of fat and calorie restriction can be completely undone if a dog eats too much of the food. Large breed puppies should almost invariably be fed several measured meals throughout the day rather than being allowed to eat free choice.

Getting too much calcium in the diet and eating foods with a high calcium to phosphorus ratio also increases the risk of DOD in these dogs. Therefore, large breed puppy foods typically contain less calcium than do “regular” puppy foods and the manufacturers keep the ratio of calcium and phosphorus within fairly narrow limits. Veterinary nutritionists don’t agree as to what the exact levels of these nutrients should be, but the following recommendations are fairly typical.



While feeding a large breed puppy food does not completely eliminate a dog’s risk for DOD (genetics plays a big part as well), offering the right amount of the right diet is very important._

Is he on 3 meals a day? If you're feeding him only dry kibble, is there a specific mealtime when he's more likely to finish that portion since he became less enthusiastic?


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

I think teething is part of the decreased appetite. While I totally agree you don’t want to create a picky eater perhaps softening the kibble or other softer choices will help if feeding does become a more concerning issue. Joey had a terrible time eating when he was teething. I gave him soft food during during that time and it helped so much. Transitioning back to kibble was no problem. 

Also agree with others that 4 cups is a lot and appetites do ebb and flow so it doesn’t seem there is truly a problem at this point. Bobby, my adult 65 Standard doesn’t even eat 4 cups a day and never has. I don’t think I’ve ever had a dog that ate the full recommended amount on the bag. Each dog is different and appetite varies for different reasons with each individual dog. 
I don’t think I would worry at this point.


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## The Popster (Feb 23, 2021)

Oh boy oh boy !!!
One of my first posts here was 'Fussy Eater'.
Poppy's eating was a real concern.
We discovered it was no real concern at all.

She came from her breeder with a bag of her kibble, but soon started turning up her nose.
We went all over the place finding food should would eat.... makes me giggle to think back now!!

Puppy will not starve themself !!
I'm sure you will sort it out, nil desperandum !!

Plenty of goosd advice to be had here.


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## Heartland2022 (8 mo ago)

If I fed Dewy 4 cups of his current kibble in a day. That would be an extreme overload of vitamins, minerals, protein and fat. Definitely outside of the recommended ranges from the Merck vet manual for his age and life phase. As pictured below greater than sign >14 weeks puppy nutrition info. That might not be the case with your dog I don't know what formula you're feeding or the brand. They are all very different in their makeup and content amounts. One thing I will say about 4 cups of kibble. Have you ever seen four cups of kibble expanded in water?😬 They literally double in size which could lead to bloat. It's not exactly dry in the stomach they will expand. That's why it's recommended to space a dog's meal out through the day. Also recommended to keep fresh water available at all times. Not to mention vitamins and minerals can cause liver toxicity with frequent overdoses. A puppy's stomach is only so big I definitely wouldn't try to entice the pup into eating that amount. With toppers or anything else that's only going to add more vitamins minerals protein calories carbs fat. If the bag recommends that amount they must be some very small kibble bites. If I had to guess it's probably a puppy specific large breed formula. To me that is all just a marketing gimmick in most cases. Puppy specific large breeds specific some are even breeds specific now. Unfortunately most dog food bags don't tell you the whole story on the labels. Though many do give a number you can call for more information. That leaves you having to go digging as to what your dog needs from a vet manual. That or a canine nutritionist familiar with the breed. It also leaves you digging for answers as to what's in the kibble of choice and the amounts.

Here is a link to the vet manuals I'm talking about.








Nutritional Requirements and Related Diseases of Small Animals - Management and Nutrition - Merck Veterinary Manual


Learn about the veterinary topic of Nutritional Requirements and Related Diseases of Small Animals. Find specific details on this topic and related topics from the Merck Vet Manual.




www.merckvetmanual.com




This is where I found information on what Dewy needs currently. Pictured below mins and max values for all.

























4 cups is also outside of the recommended by weight for his current kibble of choice as an adult dog. That which he is not even at his ripe old age of one year. Some dogs mature to adults at that age. Standard poodles are not one of them. You can see why I think 4 cups is a large amount and that's not specific to just this kibble. I've seen similar guidelines on other bags formulas.









He's nowhere near 80 lbs probably never will be. Keep in mind those are recommended for adult dogs on his bag. Specifically tailored to this specific kibbles makeup. Puppy directions are below it fine print but all of it is just a recommendation. I do find the chart pretty accurate for the given weight/food amounts puppy or adult active dog needs though.

It's a multi-life stage formula for puppies and active adults. He's only a year old he won't be considered adult until nearing year 2. Though some mature at 15 to 20 months it varies. He won't be one of them I can tell by looking at his body condition. He reminds me of a young whitetail deer buck with his body proportions. To me that designates he is not an adult dog yet. He won't get any taller as he's passed the one-year mark which is typical. It's possible he could maybe gain another inch but doubtful from what I've been charting. He has achieved mental maturity also but weight is a different story and growth plate closure/completion.

To be honest the only true way to know your dog is getting what they need. Use the vet manual in combination with something like dog food advisor. They convert the analysis on bag to dry matter basis. That's if the manufacturer hasn't already done that a lot do not. That or you can do it yourself then reference the vet manual to see what's required for your dog min/max values. Keeping in mind their age breed activity lvls phase of life puppy/adult. If you're like me and you don't like math dog food advisor will be a a great resource. They do the conversion to dry matter basis for you if the manufacturer hasn't. They also show all dog food recalls and every single ingredient. They give very in-depth explanations of any controversial ingredients and highlight them in red. Using both of those resources in tandem I've managed to tailor a food to my dogs needs. It's pretty straightforward you just search for the food at the top of the page.

Hopefully both can be a great resource/help to you.

Signed a self-proclaimed dog nutritionist expert legend in his own mind. Heartland2022 🤠

P.S. Sorry for the long post I just wanted to be as thorough as possible.😜


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Really the only time I really worry about not eating as much is if something has changed. If I’ve recently changed foods or opened a new bag, I’ll go get a new small bag of food and see if they want to eat that. We all know dogs have a sense of smell that is incredibly more sensitive than ours, but I think sometimes we forget that smell influences taste. I trust that they know if the food has gone rancid and will make them sick.

Otherwise, fluctuations in intake aren’t a big, huge, life-changing deal. Sometimes I don’t want to eat as much. Nothing is wrong, I’m just not as hungry. Yes, your dog is still a puppy and is still growing fast, but not nearly as fast as they were at first.

Obviously, if a dog is not eating at all or is eating less plus other symptoms, I would take more action.


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## Charliethespoo (4 mo ago)

fjm said:


> My pups have always gone through hungry phases when they were in a growth spurt, then not-very-hungry spells in between. If he is otherwise lively and his digestion is good I would not worry too much, but it is always worth considering whether you may have a stale or slightly off bag of food. How long has the bag been open? Did the loss of appetite coincide with opening a new bag? Both might indicate a dodgy bag.


Other than the "food issue", everything is going well. I don't think it has anything to do with the food itself as I opened a new bag (the same he usually has) a couple days ago and the "issue" is still here. 

Thank you for reassuring me!


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## Charliethespoo (4 mo ago)

reraven123 said:


> Amounts given on the dog food bag are always high--they want to sell more food and don't care if your dog gets fat. When Zephyr was a pup I was sure he was not eating enough and was too skinny; he was never enthusiastic about eating and would walk away from a bowl. In time I started going by his condition, and not paying so much attention to how much he ate. As long as he was active and had plenty of energy I figured he was eating "enough". At six yo he is lean and healthy and wonderfully athletic, still not a big eater.


This actually makes sense! Never thought of it that way (about the high feeding recommendations on food bags). Charlie seems to be in a very healthy shape, but it's a little hard for me to tell with all that fluff! I'm glad your worries with Zephyr's feeding got better


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## Charliethespoo (4 mo ago)

94Magna_Tom said:


> 4 cups at 19 weeks seems like an awful lot. 3 cups seems about right (for Purina pro plan anyway). Approx 425 kcals/cup. If his behavior is normal, I wouldn't worry about it. What brand / how many calories?


I'm feeding him Royal Canin Puppy Maxi at the moment, I believe there's about 375kcal/cup.


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## Charliethespoo (4 mo ago)

TeamHellhound said:


> I agree that four cups a day for a 4 month old pup seems on the high side.However, the recommended amounts on tha package are just that. Recommendations.I'll use them as a starting point, and adjust up or down as my dog's body condition indicates. If they start looking pudgy, I'll cut back a bit. If they start looking thin, I'll add a bit more per meal.
> 
> As for why he's not eating as much, he's at the age where they start teething in earnest, so it's possible that his mouth hurts.You might want to moisten it, so it's not as crunchy, and see if that makes a difference.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for the advice! I do think him teething might be affecting his eating habits. I will try to add a bit of water to see if it makes a difference!

He ate a bit more enthusiastically today but it's still not it! Hopefully he will be back to normal once his teeth don't hurt as bad.


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## Charliethespoo (4 mo ago)

Rose n Poos said:


> Another thing to keep in mind is that the recommended feeding amounts are generally calculated as if that food is the only food. It doesn't include treats or snacks. It is only a guideline.
> 
> Are you feeding him a large breed puppy formula? If he's projected to reach 50 lbs or over as an adult, his food should have less fat to slow down growth. This is to reduce the possibility of developmental orthopedic diseases.
> 
> ...


True, I do give him some treats during the day when I train him. However, I have always done that and haven't been giving him more treats, so I don't think it would explain why he suddenly became less keen on his food...

I feed him a Maxi Puppy formula, and yes he's still on 3 meals a day. I think the "lunch" time is when he's the most excited for his food!

Thank you for your reply!


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## Charliethespoo (4 mo ago)

Spottytoes said:


> I think teething is part of the decreased appetite. While I totally agree you don’t want to create a picky eater perhaps softening the kibble or other softer choices will help if feeding does become a more concerning issue. Joey had a terrible time eating when he was teething. I gave him soft food during during that time and it helped so much. Transitioning back to kibble was no problem.
> 
> Also agree with others that 4 cups is a lot and appetites do ebb and flow so it doesn’t seem there is truly a problem at this point. Bobby, my adult 65 Standard doesn’t even eat 4 cups a day and never has. I don’t think I’ve ever had a dog that ate the full recommended amount on the bag. Each dog is different and appetite varies for different reasons with each individual dog.
> I don’t think I would worry at this point.


I really hope teething is the culprit! Thanks a lot, your message really reassured me!


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## Charliethespoo (4 mo ago)

Heartland2022 said:


> If I fed Dewy 4 cups of his current kibble in a day. That would be an extreme overload of vitamins, minerals, protein and fat. Definitely outside of the recommended ranges from the Merck vet manual for his age and life phase. As pictured below greater than sign >14 weeks puppy nutrition info. That might not be the case with your dog I don't know what formula you're feeding or the brand. They are all very different in their makeup and content amounts. One thing I will say about 4 cups of kibble. Have you ever seen four cups of kibble expanded in water?😬 They literally double in size which could lead to bloat. It's not exactly dry in the stomach they will expand. That's why it's recommended to space a dog's meal out through the day. Also recommended to keep fresh water available at all times. Not to mention vitamins and minerals can cause liver toxicity with frequent overdoses. A puppy's stomach is only so big I definitely wouldn't try to entice the pup into eating that amount. With toppers or anything else that's only going to add more vitamins minerals protein calories carbs fat. If the bag recommends that amount they must be some very small kibble bites. If I had to guess it's probably a puppy specific large breed formula. To me that is all just a marketing gimmick in most cases. Puppy specific large breeds specific some are even breeds specific now. Unfortunately most dog food bags don't tell you the whole story on the labels. Though many do give a number you can call for more information. That leaves you having to go digging as to what your dog needs from a vet manual. That or a canine nutritionist familiar with the breed. It also leaves you digging for answers as to what's in the kibble of choice and the amounts.
> 
> Here is a link to the vet manuals I'm talking about.
> 
> ...


Don't be sorry about the long post at all! It's so helpful, I'm so thankful for all the replies and help I have been getting. 

This is super interesting, I definitely hadn't looked at it this way and stupidly trusted the brand recommendations. The few times Charlie managed to eat 4 cups a day, he had terrible gas and there was me wondering why... and getting worried about it  kind of makes sense now. Probably was way too much for his puppy stomach.

I guess I have some digging to do now! But from now on I will definitely be putting less pressure on myself (and on him, of course) to eat his 4 cups a day.

Thank you again!


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

There is quite a wide variation on the amount of food needed. I have always given puppies as much as they will eat. I also start adults with that same tactic. If an adult dog starts getting fat, then I reduce the amount. The amounts on dog food bags have always seemed much to high, in my opinion. They might be appropriate for dogs working in the field, but they are too much for house pets.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

My breeder recommended moistening kibble with water and adding a topper, to keep it interesting. 1 T. cottage cheese a few strips of the protein you had last night, chicken, beef fish. When I was a frantic Spoo puppy owner, I was assured that no puppy or dog starved when food was a available. Buck was so busy adjusting and adventuring that his feeding didn’t settle into a reliable consumption for a while.


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## Heartland2022 (8 mo ago)

Charliethespoo said:


> I'm feeding him Royal Canin Puppy Maxi at the moment, I believe there's about 375kcal/cup.


I just seen the German flag and realized I gave you information in mostly the standard system not metric.😅 I just realized a lot of these dog foods may not be available there also. I did find Royal Canin dog foods formulas on dog food advisor website. However I couldn't find the Puppy Maxi formula. I did find Maxi Starter Formula though. They make a ton of dog food under multiple company names. This site is probably more tailored to measurements you are more familiar with. This is information all about Royal Canin Puppy Maxi formula. If you click the ingredients it will tell you all about them. You said the dog has a lot of gas I'm thinking there may be some allergies going? Especially after looking over that ingredients list clicking each one. Royal Canin Maxi Puppy Review & Rating One thing to think about an allergen wouldn't surface right away causing a decrease in appetite. As the gas and intestinal distress become worse it might though. The two that really stick out to me common standard poodle allergens causing digestive upset in that formula are wheat and corn. If you properly transition a dog to a new food. There should be no issues with the change if done slowly. There are plenty of guides online how to do that. Some manufacturers of kibble even include that info right on the bag. From what I've read of the formula you're feeding you'll have to change at 15 months anyways. Two brands I have looked at that should be available in Germany. I took in depth looks on dog food advisor of both. Canidae or Orijen both are dry kibble all life stages. Orijen brand would be my pic though for a standard specifically the original formula. Looks to have everything needed very balanced. Fortunately we have a variety of dog food brands available here in the states from everywhere. Dewy is on Victor hi pro plus formula from Victor super premium dog foods. I doubt you would find that in Germany though. Here's a direct link to orijen original I was talking about. Orijen Dog Food | Review | Rating | Recalls


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

The WSAVA (World Small Animal Veterinary Association) Home (wsava.org) writes global nutrition guidelines
Global Nutrition Guidelines (wsava.org) and
guidelines on selecting pet food








GNC_Guidelines_120421 (wsava.org)

AAFCO (Association of American Feed Control Officials)
The Association of American Feed Control Officials > Home (aafco.org)
develops the recommended nutrient levels for dogs and cats (and other animals) and they oversee labeling. These guidelines are used outside the US in many cases. This is why AAFCO (and FEDIAF) are involved in pet foods.
The Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) > Home
Nutritional Guidelines | FEDIAF (europeanpetfood.org)
Fact Sheets | FEDIAF (europeanpetfood.org)

Ingredients are not isolated in the food. Looking at them individually doesn't tell the whole story. Beyond the ingredients list, what veterinary nutritionists do is develop formulae for age, size, breed, lifestyle. These are based on how the ingredients work together to give a correct nutritional balance.
Think of this as cooking or baking from scratch and accounting not only for flavor and presentation but a complete nutrient balance.
Why you shouldn’t judge a pet food by its ingredient list – Clinical Nutrition Service at Cummings School (tufts.edu)

This is Royal Canin's statement re meeting the WSAVA guidelines
Pet food safety: Questions to ask a manufacturer | Royal ... (royalcanin.com)

Royal Canin is owned by Mars, Inc. Mars owns a number of pet food brands and other pet health services.
Global Petcare, Food, Mars Wrigley and Edge Brands | Mars, Incorporated
Mars Petcare | Mars, Incorporated

A closer look at popular pet food myths… and why they are just that (veterinarypracticenews.com)


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## Charliethespoo (4 mo ago)

Heartland2022 said:


> I just seen the German flag and realized I gave you information in mostly the standard system not metric.😅 I just realized a lot of these dog foods may not be available there also. I did find Royal Canin dog foods formulas on dog food advisor website. However I couldn't find the Puppy Maxi formula. I did find Maxi Starter Formula though. They make a ton of dog food under multiple company names. This site is probably more tailored to measurements you are more familiar with. This is information all about Royal Canin Puppy Maxi formula. If you click the ingredients it will tell you all about them. You said the dog has a lot of gas I'm thinking there may be some allergies going? Especially after looking over that ingredients list clicking each one. Royal Canin Maxi Puppy Review & Rating One thing to think about an allergen wouldn't surface right away causing a decrease in appetite. As the gas and intestinal distress become worse it might though. The two that really stick out to me common standard poodle allergens causing digestive upset in that formula are wheat and corn. If you properly transition a dog to a new food. There should be no issues with the change if done slowly. There are plenty of guides online how to do that. Some manufacturers of kibble even include that info right on the bag. From what I've read of the formula you're feeding you'll have to change at 15 months anyways. Two brands I have looked at that should be available in Germany. I took in depth looks on dog food advisor of both. Canidae or Orijen both are dry kibble all life stages. Orijen brand would be my pic though for a standard specifically the original formula. Looks to have everything needed very balanced. Fortunately we have a variety of dog food brands available here in the states from everywhere. Dewy is on Victor hi pro plus formula from Victor super premium dog foods. I doubt you would find that in Germany though. Here's a direct link to orijen original I was talking about. Orijen Dog Food | Review | Rating | Recalls


Thank you so much for your help. Charlie doesn't really have gas, but he did when I was feeding him 4 cups/day, now I'm wondering if it wasn't simply way too much food for him? Which might have caused some stomach issues?

For now, this food seems to be doing well with him! He likes it and his digestion is really good. We have thought of changing it because some people think Royal Canin isn't the best, but we didn't really know what to change it with. I will take a look at the brands you mentioned, thank you! Its so easy to be overwhelmed with the amount of choice 😅

To be fair, he has started to be way more enthusiastic about his food again, so I'm hoping it was just a little phase. Fingers crossed!


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## Charliethespoo (4 mo ago)

Rose n Poos said:


> The WSAVA (World Small Animal Veterinary Association) Home (wsava.org) writes global nutrition guidelines
> Global Nutrition Guidelines (wsava.org) and
> guidelines on selecting pet food
> View attachment 498697
> ...


Oh that's interesting. Thank you for researching that for me! Really appreciate it.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Also, are you still feeding the same kibble over and over? My dog won't go for that at all. He gets totally bored and wants something else, as would I!


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## Charliethespoo (4 mo ago)

kontiki said:


> Also, are you still feeding the same kibble over and over? My dog won't go for that at all. He gets totally bored and wants something else, as would I!


We are yes. I thought of changing it but I was advised not to as it could upset his stomach? 
I don't really know what to think about it!


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