# Question about liver points



## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

I'm not sure I understand what you are asking. What body color is your Poodle? Were you expecting his nose to be black? Can you show us a picture?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

According to breed standard poodles in the brown spectrum all have varying shades of brown or liver points. Some have very, very dark brown noses while others have lighter, liver noses. What color were you expecting his nose to fade to?


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

cbrand said:


> I'm not sure I understand what you are asking. What body color is your Poodle? Were you expecting his nose to be black? Can you show us a picture?


There is a picture of her pup in this thread...

http://www.poodleforum.com/3-poodle-pictures/11032-polo-5-weeks-old.html


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I don't think your pups nose is going to darken anymore, if anything, his nose will lighten more with age.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Yep, that is a Cream with liver pigment. Sometimes the pigment is so light that it looks pink. It will always be this way. Did your breeder tell you that it was going to be black eventually?


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## 4Paws (Dec 11, 2010)

Here is his picture, I forgot to mention he is cream, sorry. I wasn't sure what kind of answer I was getting, so I guess I wasn't sure how to ask it? Anyways, thanks for the info.


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## 4Paws (Dec 11, 2010)

cbrand said:


> Yep, that is a Cream with liver pigment. Sometimes the pigment is so light that it looks pink. It will always be this way. Did your breeder tell you that it was going to be black eventually?


The breeder said it could change. So I wasn't sure. I like to hear from multiple people about what to expect and not rely on one person, even if she is the breeder. Those of you know that I've had some discrepencies with this breeder, and I'm happy with the dog but know she doesn't have all the answers. I'm going to go see him on Sunday, and will have new pictures. I was just curious about the nose.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

He does have kind of unusual pigment. He almost looks like he has a "snow nose", but faded pigment typically comes on with age. You don't usually see it this young.


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## 4Paws (Dec 11, 2010)

cbrand said:


> He does have kind of unusual pigment. He almost looks like he has a "snow nose", but faded pigment typically comes on with age. You don't usually see it this young.


What is "snow nose" ? If it's not usual to see it this young, is that good or bad or neutral?


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Oooh, yeah that does look more like snow nose with the more recent picture. A snow nose is a nose that typical changes colors throughout the year. It'll normally be darker in the summer, and lighten up in the winter. I was waiting for Vienna's to go snow, but it's held it's color, black all through. I don't know what makes dogs get snow noses and what makes some hold their color.


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

> don't know what makes dogs get snow noses and what makes some hold their color.


It's determined by genes . Great pigmentation never "changes".

BTW- that puppy will most likely have liver nose , regardless of the "season" IMO , maybe could go to dark liver and back, but never really black. :confused3:


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## 4Paws (Dec 11, 2010)

wishpoo said:


> It's determined by genes . Great pigmentation never "changes".
> 
> BTW- that puppy will most likely have liver nose , regardless of the "season" IMO , maybe could go to dark liver and back, but never really black. :confused3:


Sounds fine to me. That's actually pretty interesting, I'll have to wait and see if it changes. I don't mind that it won't be black.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

It just looks like incorrect pigment.

Can someone chime in about how this happens? I know creams and whites are not supposed to have liver pigment, so how does it occur? By breeding a brown to a cream?

Edited to change "bad pigment" to "incorrect pigment" although I guess it could also be considered poor pigment because of the "snow nose" appearance. 

I wonder what brown puppies with (correct) liver noses look like at this age? Is the color usually dark brown and consistent throughout?


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

PaddleAddict said:


> It just looks like bad pigment.
> 
> Can someone chime in about how this happens? I know creams and whites are not supposed to have liver pigment, so how does it occur? By breeding a brown to a cream?


This is about the clearest explanation I've seen. See the last two paragraphs below the chart for a concise discussion of nose color:

VetGen: Veterinary Genetic Services - Canine - List of Services - Coat Color


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Yes Feral : ))) - thanks for posting it !!! 

Now, it is obvious why it is of tremendous importance to pay attention to pedigrees !!!!!!!! One just HAS to know what colors were ever produced in certain lines to predict correct pigmentation and color and not just coloration of a Stud and a Dam . 

With good breeders , incorrect pigmentation almost never happens (I can not say 100 % since nothing is 100 % but - close to that !!!!).


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Feralpudel said:


> This is about the clearest explanation I've seen. See the last two paragraphs below the chart for a concise discussion of nose color:
> 
> VetGen: Veterinary Genetic Services - Canine - List of Services - Coat Color


Very interesting link, thank you!


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## Salukie (Dec 18, 2009)

4Paws said:


> What is "snow nose" ?


My Dana has "snow nose". Here's a picture of her as a pup with her nice dark nose:










And here's a recent picture; her nose isn't inky black anymore: 










Her nose will probably darken again come summer.


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## 4Paws (Dec 11, 2010)

Salukie said:


> My Dana has "snow nose". Here's a picture of her as a pup with her nice dark nose:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's incredibly interesting! I had no idea dogs could even tan. Maybe I should call him Rudolph! Salukie, your Dana is stunning!


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## McKay (Feb 19, 2011)

So.. what color is liver?? Little Anderson's nose is dark brown and eye rims are dark brown. His lips vary from a darker brown in front to a pinkish brown closer to the gums.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

McKay said:


> So.. what color is liver?? Little Anderson's nose is dark brown and eye rims are dark brown. His lips vary from a darker brown in front to a pinkish brown closer to the gums.


Liver=brown


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

Whatever Polo's nose color, it sure is cute. I'd like to kiss it right now!


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## McKay (Feb 19, 2011)

Thank you! I keep reading that a brown poodle will have either brown or liver points. So I'm assuming they are a variation of shade?


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

"Brown" is generally a darker colour to "liver". Liver being closer to a dark 'fleshy' colour (IMO) and brown being more the colour of your Little Andersons. But really it's just a matter of shading!


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## McKay (Feb 19, 2011)

Here is Little Anderson and all his 'pointed' glory.  
Brown... liver... pinkish... whatever. I adore him!

Thank you all for your help!


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

Brown.

Here's an example of liver pigment (ok, it's a lagotto, but it's the same in poodles!)








note it's a very 'fleshy' colour. It's not a LACK of pigment though, that shows as being very PINK, not fleshy. It's liver pigment, though a fairly pale liver! lol


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## McKay (Feb 19, 2011)

OK! Very good. Now that that is settled I can start obsessing over whether he will keep his color or not! Tee hee...

Thank You!


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## 4Paws (Dec 11, 2010)

LEUllman said:


> Whatever Polo's nose color, it sure is cute. I'd like to kiss it right now!


Here you go! When you kiss him, he smells like John Paul :act-up: 

His nose never changed color. It barely got darker from sun. I don't think it will change. I think it's cute, though, and call him Rudolph and tell him not to play reindeer games when he has shenanigans!


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