# Sad & full of doubts about poodle injury



## SteviM95 (Jul 9, 2014)

My almost 6 mo poodle got hurt by a horse yesterday. One stepped on her foot. Pretty sure it was an accident. The emergency vet took 2 X-rays that confirmed fracture of the third proximal phalanges. He offered surgery/pinning as a treatment option & said that if I did not do it, I would only notice a bump on her foot - which would be bad if I showed her, but nothing to worry about as a pet. I chose to not do surgery...but I can't help doubting my decision. Am I just cheap and cruel? My other worry is how do I keep her safe from the horses? I board my horse and I love taking her out there. Unfortunately, there were lots of people, dogs, & children on Sat & I wasn't even watching her when she actually got hurt, I was looking the other way. I feel really, really guilty. Up until 2 weeks ago, there was an older dog that kind of 'babysat' her. But that dog has passed away & the smart dog left is old & grumpy and ignores her & the new dog is only 6 mo. We have to yell at them both to stay away from the horses. Will she stay away now? Should I just be glad she learned her lesson without getting hurt worse, or is this a 'sign' that she is a city dog & needs to stay away from the barn? I was really looking forward to having a dog that could run along side my horse while we are trail riding. Is she going to always have pain in her foot because I didn't do surgery? Will we be able to do an agility class?


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Actually, having a dog around horses, it was bound to happen. Even 'country' dogs get in trouble with horses. Your poodle got off rather lucky in reality. I had a horse that killed dogs and a neighbor of mine did as well. 

This *may* have taught her a lesson, but I would still be really careful with her. Can you put up an X-pen or something in a safe, horse-free zone where you and she can still see each other until it's time to ride? 

As far as the break, I would have done the same thing most likely. Pinning a toe is not really going to stop long term pain any better than healing on its own. As long as it is fairly well lined up, I am guessing it should be ok. Shoot, I never had any of my broken toes fixed (most usually broken by horses, too lol). 

It's normal for you to feel badly, but stuff happens and unless you keep her locked up in a padded crate, she is going to pick up some bumps and scrapes along the ride that is life. Look at it this way, she has battle scars to brag to her buddies about. 

As young as she is, though, I would try to sort out some way of keeping her safely confined. As you are probably aware, horses can explode and Holy Cow, you sure don't want your dog to be responsible for a possible issue with a spooked or annoyed horse and damaged people. Just for everyones' safety, all the dogs should be properly confined and supervised around the horses. Too much potential for severe consequences.


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## Searcher (Aug 7, 2009)

She is still very young with not much sense so you'll need to keep her safe for awhile -- the ex-pen is a good idea. Dancer got much more horse savvy after she turned 2. Up until then she wouldn't pay attention to where she was & didn't understand keeping a safe distance from horse feet.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

A six month old pup is way too young to be running loose at a boarding stable with lots of other people, horses, children and dogs. You are very lucky that your dog was not hurt worse. I am not even very comfortable with the idea of the pup following you on a trail ride at her age. Is her recall 100%? Is your horse so well trained that you will be able to pay attention to the pup to keep her out of trouble? Are you riding away from traffic areas, so if your pup wanders it will still be safe? Do you have liability insurance that will cover your dog should it spook another horse and cause injury to that horse or its rider? There are so many things that can go wrong with a pup running loose at a boarding facility... have you really thought it through? And, no, your pup will not equate a one time injury with meaning that she should avoid horses. You didn't ask, but I would not leave a six month old pup unattended with children either. The pup could accidentally hurt the kids and the kids could accidentally hurt the pup. If you want to get your pup used to the stables, do it when you aren't working with your horse. Concentrate fully on the pup and keep her safe.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Even seasoned older dogs get hurt by horses. I would never let a pup off leash around them. Even as the pup gets older, I would not let them off the leash unless recall is 100%. I have seen dogs trampled twice, when horses were in the turn out and the dog ran in to help chase. My horse that I had to give up recently would pin his ears and go after dogs, cats, chickens, whatever. He wanted to stomp them. I have also seen 2 dogs get killed by vehicles at the barn, one was killed when run over by the tractor and the other was asleep in front of a vehicle pulling a trailer. The driver had stopped and rolled down the window to chat, and the stable dog fell asleep. After a few minutes the driver put it in gear.....very sad. Just too many dangerous things and too many distractions at a barn.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I'm very sorry this happened to your puppy. I would leave my Poodle at home and let the barn dogs run the trail or take their chances in the stables and yard. The barn dogs where I ride are all strays that stayed. Sadly, there are plenty more where they came from...


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I don't ride so I can't speak to the particulars of what happened, but I don't think I would bring a young pup to a situation where I couldn't pay attention to everything that was happening with the dog involved. It sounds like it would have been an iffy surgical repair so I think not subjecting the puppy to the anesthesia and other risks of surgery is what I would have done. If the injury results in an obvious gait change for the dog you will not be allowed to compete in agility, but I don't think that would be at the top of my list of concerns right now. I would just be happy nothing worse happened. Your lesson was a relatively easy one. I don't mean to sound harsh, but all of the animals in our lives do depend on us for their safety.


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

I think letting it heal on its own would be fine. None of us can say 'coulda-shoulda' really now that it's happened, but if I were a rider, I probably would leave my dogs at home or in an expen out of the way rather than run that risk. Vet bills aren't cheap (just ask my bank account after 2 emergency vet visits and a neuter surgery! Ouch).

Hope your pup's feeling better.


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

Well, I know a little about puppies with broken toes. Willow was just 6 mos. when she was attacked by a larger dog. (This was just 6 weeks ago). The vet said, "we really don't do anything for broken toes unless they all are broken."

So, I think that by doing pins you would have been causing her more pain and a longer recovery.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Yes, that's the problem when you love both dogs and horses. In my circle, we hope for a kick from a horse that teaches our dogs a lesson, without serious injury. A well-placed kick teaches a dog a life-time of respect for horses! Poodles seem to learn the lesson more easily than some, thankfully. Horses seem very well-equipped to defend themselves and their foals from coyotes, wolves and cougars...dogs are small potatoes to them.


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## SteviM95 (Jul 9, 2014)

Thanks for the advice. For the horse savvy people I just want to clarify that the kids were not there to ride. The owners of the barn were having a family reunion and there were lots of grandkids there. They are not allowed near the horses without their grandpa, and they would not have been near the arena once I got my horse out. I had not gotten my horse from her pen yet (on Saturdays they are pinned so the boarders can ride in the fields/woods). I would not let my puppy run free and harass other riders. We are a small barn (7 boarders, 2 owners). The owners are skilled horse people (1 farrier & 1 trainer that broke all but 3 of the 15 horses there). There are no mean horses and I'm honestly the least skilled rider. My horse is great with smaller animals and for the last 2 years only spooks when I'm riding with older mares - AFTER they spook. I had to get a squirt gun to keep the cats away from us in the arena - they just want to rub all over her.

But I do realize horses & dogs are a tricky combination. I think I was just 'off' Sat cause I wasn't prepared for the family reunion. My plan was to let Bindi run free for awhile with the puppy that lives at the barn now, then lock her up and ride. Then I saw kids and I wanted to see how she would behave. And I wanted to see how their son's dog would treat her (they had not met before). I was indecisive about what to do with her and they told me they would watch her for me while I rode. We were chatting about her when I heard her crying. But I cannot blame them. The impromptu family get together was called because the owner's father is dying and has refused treatment, doctors have given him a month to live. No wonder everyone was 'off' that day. Plus she's my dog - I need to take responsibility for her, not blame people who really treat me like family. I need to have a plan. This wasn't an issue until recently. They used to have a 5 yr old lab that babysat my dog. Lena was great and I kind of wanted Bindi to be JUST like her, but Lena passed away (no awful barn accident - perforated bowel from strictures after having a blanket surgically removed from her gut as a puppy). They got the new pup 2 weeks ago. It's the same age as my pup. In this past 2 weeks they've taken Bindi inside their home with them or I've locked Bindi in my car when I've decided to get my horse out.

Bindi's recall is not 100%, but it's pretty darn good. When she is loose and doesn't want to be caught, she runs to me but stops 2 ft away and then circles around me. Then I have to tell her to sit/stay to catch her. She would have come out of the horse pen if I had called her, I just didn't see her go in. 

The owner of the barn has already told me that we have to teach our dogs how to ride with us. She plans on helping me. The horses are used to dog antics - two of my early falls WERE caused by the dog that passed away, but I chose to put the last hours on my horse after it was green broke. They told me that the dog was just helping me spook proof my horse :act-up: !!! They actually intentionally ride with dogs to desensitize the horses to the noises smaller animals make in grasses/leaves. I trust them because the horses at my barn do not have the issues I hear about at my saddle club, and several people at my saddle club tried to get me to pressure them into joining the club & doing clinics.

I do know a family through my saddle club that does field trials (hunting with dogs and horses). They might be a good resource too in helping me train them to be together. Bindi is so much bigger than my other dogs and pretty well behaved that its easy to forget she's still a puppy. Two years seem so long, but that seemed to be a common thread.

I want to do agility classes - not competition!! I don't have a competitive bone in my body, but I love watching agility. But I don't want her to hurt with every jump. I got Bindi to see if I can learn to train dogs. Poodles have such a great reputation as smart/easy to train that I thought it would be the best 'puppy' for me to try to train. I think it might be fun to try to raise up dogs to donate to service schools. But I may give up the idea - I know I'll never donate Bindi, she's mine. I'll probably feel that way about any pup & I keep finding myself looking forward to when she is older. My last two dogs were 7ish when I adopted them. Adults might be better for me than puppies.


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## SteviM95 (Jul 9, 2014)

*The traffic concern*

I was almost threatened with expulsion from the barn if I'm caught riding near the road. I have ridden along the road years ago - but have been thoroughly chastised for it, even though it was before they knew me to enlighten me. After all, it's not about trusting the horse - it's about trusting the brainless idiots behind the wheel.


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## Cailin77 (Jul 21, 2012)

I have a horse that lives at a friend's farm and even the farm owners dogs aren't allowed in with the horses. His huskies have a fenced in yard around the house to keep them separated from the horses. I have friends that have show collies (very well trained, completely trustworthy off leash) and they use an ex-pen to keep the dogs safe at the farm. 

I personally wouldn't take the risk of allowing my dog off leash around horses. Even a horse that is friendly towards smaller animals can accidently hurt your dog. I ended up under my horse once because a horsefly landed on the gelding next her! I was very lucky and only ended up with a badly bruised arm but it does illustrate perfectly how unpredictable life around a horse can be. A horse's "fight or flight reflex" leans heavily towards "flight" and heaven help anyone or anything in their way! To me, there is too much potential for tragedy when allowing a dog to be loose around horses.


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

How's your dog doing SteviM95?? Hope all is well ?


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