# Leptovirus vaccine?



## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

I do not vaccinate for lepto (much to my vet's disappointment lol) even though we live out more in a country like setting - raccoons, rats, etc. Bug LOVES to hunt/kill rats. The vaccine only covers a few serotypes and the ones more likely to infect your dogs are usually not covered by the vaccine anyway. As many years as I have lived out here and played out in the woods with my dogs and horses, I have never *knock on wood* had an issue with it.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Leptospirosis is a bacterium not a virus. It is zoonotic, meaning humans can be infected too. In an area where there is documented leptospirosis it is probably advisable to immunize your dog. Doing so potentially helps reduce its general levels by interrupting chain of transmission opportunities. Raccoons are an important reservoir for this organism. We have tons of them (raccoons) on Long Island, so both my dogs are immunized against it (with no adverse reactions).


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## pgr8dnlvr (Aug 7, 2011)

Lily, I cannot begin to say how much I like your post! Man you're good  

Rebecca


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I have talked about my mpoo Merlin several times on this forum. I had him back in the 1990's. So many of you probably already know he was only 4-1/2 years when he died from complications of epilepsy. I can deal with a lot of dog diseases but the last year and a half of his life was pretty much hell for me.

That being said, I wonder why dogs develop epilepsy. While there is likely a predisposition to the condition, could there be contributing factors that bring out that tendency towards the disease? My personal belief is that there might be contributing factors, things that can increases a dog's likelihood of getting epilepsy.

Merlin had a progressively bad reaction to the lepto vaccine. When I got him I was blindly following whatever my vet told me to do for vaccinations. I learned the hard way to be more aware and to take more responsibility for my dogs' vaccinations because of what happened to Merlin. 

He got the first Lepto coupled with another vaccine as a puppy, and there was no big reaction. He got the followup vaccine, and he had a small reaction that he seemed to be ok with after a few days. I forgot about the whole thing. A year later he got his annual vaccinations and I brought him home, and he was in such pain that I had to hold him in a sitting position because he would cry if he tried to lay down. I had to prop him up against the couch if I had to get up for some reason. I got a benedryl in him and waited it out. It took him most of the day before he could move without crying. I called my vet, and she was unconcerned and said we would split the vaccinations next year to see which was the one he was having a reaction to. So the following year we split them and I gave him benadryl before and after and discovered it was lepto. Then we never gave him that vaccination again. 

Merlin also had hypothyrodism and was taking medication for car sickness, which I later learned could have lowered his threshold for seizures.

Later in his 3rd year he developed cluster seizures which he had several times a month until he died at 4-1/2 years. Medication for epilepsy never helped. Many times I had to take him to the emergency vets because he would not stop having seizures.

So, you can see, I have a strong fear of this vaccination, but dogs are getting this disease where I live so I do have to consider giving it. First, I never ever ever give lepto with another vaccination. So if there is a reaction I know what the dog is reacting to. Then I usually give it every year and a half, not every year. Then I only give it to young dogs if I think they are in an area where they may pick up the disease. I stop giving it when the dog is about 7 or 8.

It is a balancing act to try to protect your dog but not damage him. My vet tells me that the lepto vaccine doesn't have all the additives that it use to have 15 years ago. So dogs may not react to it as much as poor Merlin did. I may decide to never give it to my next poodle, I don't know. But the decision to give a lepto vaccine, or not, is a hard one, and I can see why people don't and I can see why people do.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I think it all depends on where you live.....if Leptospirosis is a problem in your area you might want to vaccinate for it. Here where I live it isn't something to worry about....no stagnant water, no animal vectors, no constant high humidity, so exposure is minimal.... NO LEPTO for Molly!!!!


P.S. Also Molly was reactive to her rabies vac so I tend to be a follower of the Dr. Dodds protocol...


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

My vet says it's not a big concern here, so I don't have my dogs vaccinated against it. Happily, in the north we do not have a problem with lepto, heart worm or fleas either. Yay, for this girl raised by hippies and with an ingrained hatred of chemicals. He is really into minimal vaccinations so I trust him and my dogs are on his program. He says parvo is really bad on the reserves up here, but no dog he's ever vaccinated against parvo has caught it. Good to know! I love having a vet I respect.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

MiniPoo thank you for your thoughtful explanation of Merlin's situation. It is important to consider risks and benefits in making these prevention and care situations. If I lived in a low lepto area like Molly I wouldn't give that vaccine. We talked about it with our vet and his recommendation was to give it. Since he is a poodle person himself (tpoo in past, spoo now) I trust him to be up to date about special risks for vaccines and the like in poodles.

We have to remember that immunization of dogs against rabies has drastically reduced its rates in dogs and people just vaccination successfully eradicated small pox and is rather close to eradicating polio (if only extremists in Pakistan and Syria would stop killing the vaccine workers). Those successes show how sometimes the public health benefit really does outweigh the adverse reactions some individuals experience (not to trivialize the experiences of those who have to cope with the after effects of adverse reactions). 

Rebecca, thank you for your kind words. BTW my graduate research was in immunology. This stuff is my common knowledge.


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## PoodlePaws (May 28, 2013)

Lots of *****, rats, and possums here in tx. My dogs love to eat wild animal poo ?

I vaccinate for lepto and my dogs have never had a reaction.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

PoodlePaws since Missy and Ash are toys I think that it is interesting that they have had no adverse reactions.


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## PoodlePaws (May 28, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> PoodlePaws since Missy and Ash are toys I think that it is interesting that they have had no adverse reactions.



They are made of steel!! (Except when they eat magnets) ?. No reactions whatsoever. And no reactions to rabies vaccine or Trifexis. Sturdy little girls ?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

PoodlePaws said:


> They are made of steel!! (Except when they eat magnets) ��. No reactions whatsoever. And no reactions to rabies vaccine or Trifexis. Sturdy little girls ��


I don't think that's surprising at all. Vaccine reactions are rare, but they can happen and it can be ugly. I am a believer in minimum vaccine protocols to lower the overall stress on the immune system both short term and long term. 

To the OP- Personally, I don't vaccinate for lepto. As you mentioned, it only covers some of the serovars of the disease and it doesn't provide nearly the duration of immunity as the viral vaccines provide. And, of course, the lepto vaccine does have a higher association with reaction than some other vaccines. My plan of action is to know the symptoms of lepto well.


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## Oreo's Mommy (Dec 18, 2012)

I'm in a tropical climate. Both Oreo and my previous poodle got their Lepto regularly. No problems.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

*PNWMama*, I can understand you deliberating. Just to share my experience with you, we live in the country, between a sheep farm and horse farm. A creek flows through our backyard. Lots of wildlife, _lots and lots_ of it! I haven't vaccinated against lepto in 20+ years. So far so good. I hope you reach a decision you're comfortable with. I am comfortable with my choice. Please don't over worry, whatever you choose to do. I have found that detracts from enjoying one's poodle!  It won't fly with everyone, but this summarizes my view about the letpo vaccine. eace2:

Dr. Becker Discusses Canine Leptospirosis - YouTube
[From the transcript.] By integrative veterinarian Dr. Karen Becker

Canine leptospirosis, “lepto” for short, is an infection caused by at least four species of Leptospira bacteria, or serovars. We know there are actually over 20 different serovars in existence that could potentially infect dogs and hundreds of non-pathogenic serovars.

Leptospira are found in both domesticated and wild animals, and the main carriers of the bacteria are rats, pigs, raccoons, cattle, fox, skunks and opossums.

More Cases of Leptospirosis are Being Reported
In recent years there has been an increase in canine lepto cases, probably due to better diagnostic testing methods and not necessarily because more infections are occurring.

It’s important to understand that while leptospirosis is not a new disease, the number of cases being reported is likely increasing because humans are encroaching more and more into natural habitats – which means family pets are coming in contact with wildlife known to harbor the bacteria. In addition, we also have better diagnostics these days with which to diagnose the disease.

How the Bacteria is Transmitted
Leptospira bacteria are transmitted through urine that contaminates water sources and can remain infectious in soil for up to six months. Dogs pick up the bacteria through a cut or break in the skin when they come in contact with contaminated water or soil, or when they drink contaminated water.

Dogs most at risk for leptospirosis are those that spend a lot of time in the water or in areas that get rain or snow runoff, as well as dogs that drink from puddles or ponds.

Symptoms of Leptospirosis
Many dogs with mild lepto infections never show any symptoms at all. Generally speaking, young dogs tends tend to get sicker than older dogs.

Clinical signs depend on the age and health of the dog, environmental factors affecting the bacteria, and the virulence of the particular species (serovar) of bacteria that is present.

When symptoms do occur they usually appear between 4 and 12 days after exposure to the bacteria, and can include fever, muscle pain, vomiting and diarrhea, loss of appetite, lethargy, depression, and blood in the urine.

A lepto infection primarily affects the kidneys and liver, so in serious cases, there can be jaundice, which is a yellowing of the skin and mucous membranes. In dogs, it is usually most obvious in the whites of the eyes. Jaundice indicates the presence of hepatitis (liver inflammation) as a result of the destruction of liver cells by the bacteria.

Blood clotting problems can also develop, which can result in blood in the stool and bleeding from the tissues of the mouth. In rare cases, leptospirosis can also cause respiratory distress and acute pulmonary (lung) hemorrhage.

Treating Leptospirosis
Some dogs exposed to lepto recover without medical treatment because they never show overt symptoms. Unfortunately, an untreated dog who recovers from the infection can become a carrier and shed the bacteria in urine for up to a year. The risk here is that lepto can be zoonotic – meaning humans who come in contact with infected dog urine are at risk of acquiring the infection.

In most cases, a lepto infection causes symptoms, and hopefully, those symptoms will prompt the dog’s owner to get him to a veterinarian. Dogs that become seriously ill with leptospirosis must be hospitalized to receive antibiotics and appropriate supportive care to control vomiting and diarrhea, and to provide hydration and nutrition.

Dogs with milder infections can be managed at home as long as the owner takes appropriate hygiene precautions when cleaning up urine. If your dog has lepto and anyone in your family develops flu-like symptoms, it’s important that you inform your family physician that a leptospirosis infection is a possibility.

Minimizing Your Pet’s Risk of Infection … and When to Call the Vet
Leptospira bacteria love warm humid climates and are often found in stagnant water. As I mentioned earlier, wild animals can also harbor the bacteria, so dogs exposed to potentially contaminated water sources or wild animals are at much greater risk of developing an infection than city dogs. Infection is most common in the summer months, the early fall, and during periods of flooding.

At home you can reduce the risk of infection by safely controlling the rodent population in and around your home. If you happen to live where lepto infections are very common, it’s important to keep your pet away from ponds, slow moving water, and standing or stagnant water.

That being said, I have a warm, stagnant cesspool of a pond that wildlife love to come and visit, and my dogs love to swim in every day during the summer. I’m pretty sure my own pack has been exposed to lepto bacteria, but because I keep their immune systems healthy and stay very alert for any symptoms of infection, I’m not overly concerned. This is also the advice I give to my clients.

If you have a very healthy dog who suddenly has a fever, grows lethargic, perhaps is urinating excessively or is urinating bright fresh blood, you need to call your veterinarian immediately and get your pet in for a lepto test. Leptospirosis is a totally treatable bacterial infection -- it’s only when a diagnosis isn’t made early enough that dogs suffer unnecessarily.

Should You Vaccinate Against Leptospirosis?
There is a vaccine for leptospirosis, but I absolutely don’t recommend it and I don’t offer it at my clinic. It’s a relatively weak bacterial vaccine that is short acting and can’t protect against all 20 serovars of the Leptospira bacteria. In fact, it’s actually ineffective for the current serovar that’s causing the majority of infections in my area close to Chicago.

The leptospirosis vaccine is a bacterin -- a vaccine made from killed bacteria, which in and of itself won’t prompt an immune response to make antibodies, so a powerful adjuvant is added that elicits a strong immune system response. Because of this, it also carries a significantly greater risk for adverse reactions. Information has recently emerged that the vaccine can actually cause the disease in dogs, and it has also been linked to early kidney failure in older animals.

I feel that because my profession is testing for this ancient endemic infection more frequently, we’re finding more positive animals. As a result, we’re fostering a tremendous amount of fear and anxiety in pet owners over a bacterium that is far from a “new risk” for dogs. In fact, it’s been in the environment since the beginning of time. And dogs who don’t live in rural areas have little risk of exposure.

Unfortunately, many vets are still promoting repeated vaccinations for all pets, despite the significant risks. As I mentioned earlier, a leptospirosis infection is entirely treatable. So, my question is, why vaccinate for something that’s one hundred percent treatable? I’ve handled about a dozen cases of lepto in my career and have never had a dog experience any lingering problems from the infection. I recommend you skip the leptospirosis vaccine.

If you live in an endemic area like I do, make sure your dog’s immune system is strong, and you can certainly go the extra mile by taking precautions to insure your pet doesn’t have an opportunity to be exposed to the lepto bacteria.

Now, if you’re like me, you let your dog live a free and happy existence playing in every pond he finds, or in mucky creeks, and simply recognize that it’s your job as a pet owner to stay alert for signs of infection. Certainly, if your pet begins exhibiting symptoms of an infection, you’ll want to promptly address those symptoms with the help of your vet.

About Dr. Becker's credentials...
Integrative Pet Care Expert, Dr. Karen Becker - Mercola.com


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Wow, Chagall's Mom! You certainly gave a very detailed informative response to the question of whether or not to give lepto vaccinations. I think you've convinced me that I should not do it any more. I will print out your response to re-read when the occasion arises for me to make that decision for my dogs.

I would give you more than one Thank You if the program allowed.


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