# Help Re-Training a Behavior?



## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

You're probably more dog-experienced than me, but for getting in the car, I have two suggestions that might help him understand what you're asking. One is to try a command for getting up on things in the world that he is willing to step on, like a log, rock, picnic table and then expand it to the car. I also wonder if he has a release command in there that he's waiting for? We've worked on a 'through' command to go through doors with Oona alongside an automatic wait at the door, and often (unless she really has to go) she will stand at the door waiting for her "through" (or hoping for a treat for waiting). If he did conformation he probably had to get into cars, so maybe they had a command or a release that he's waiting for that you could ask about?
The other idea is to do a "mat" or "place" and then move the mat/bed etc to different spots where you want him to go, eventually putting it on surfaces then into the car. It might help him understand what you're asking.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Ooohhh this is interesting! Phoebe also refuses the car sometimes, my guess is because she used to get carsick. Im not sure this is helpful, but maybe you can modify: A trainer told me to open both back doors and play a game through the car. I would be on one side and someone else on the other and she already knew “hop up” means to get onto something. She will “hop up” onto most anything, but was balking at the car. So one person on each side and the person with the dog says hop up, immediately followed by the other person calling the dog. Dog has to “hop up” to get to the other person, and no, going around is not allowed Phoebe! 🤣 She would also be much more reliable at “hop up” into the car if we were going home, so maybe training somewhere that is not home would be helpful? Maybe if you can get him to get into the side door, you can transfer that to the back? 
Poodle minds really are incredible with how they learn; different from other breeds!


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

Starla said:


> Ooohhh this is interesting! Phoebe also refuses the car sometimes, my guess is because she used to get carsick. Im not sure this is helpful, but maybe you can modify: A trainer told me to open both back doors and play a game through the car. I would be on one side and someone else on the other and she already knew “hop up” means to get onto something. She will “hop up” onto most anything, but was balking at the car. So one person on each side and the person with the dog says hop up, immediately followed by the other person calling the dog. Dog has to “hop up” to get to the other person, and no, going around is not allowed Phoebe! 🤣 She would also be much more reliable at “hop up” into the car if we were going home, so maybe training somewhere that is not home would be helpful? Maybe if you can get him to get into the side door, you can transfer that to the back?
> Poodle minds really are incredible with how they learn; different from other breeds!


Interesting, Oona used to balk at the car after what I think were a few scary ride for her which involved fast stops. She now happily jumps in when we are going somewhere and but occasionally balks (which for her is a cute but annoying passive resistance side floop on the ground) when it's time to leave somewhere fun like the park or training to head home. She's likelier to hop into the car to go anywhere if her kid is sitting in back with her, too. She does not like the trunk but instead is secured with a harness on the back seat. 
@SandyTopknot, experimenting with different options that are possible (trunk, harness, crate) for you might help find what is most comfortable for him, which I'd guess might be a crate.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Elroy wouldn't get into the car without me helping him. I'd grab his front ankles and lift them onto the seat, then I'd do the same with his rears. He never once offered to jump in by himself for the first 5 months I had him (since 8 weeks old). One day I decided to try to force him to think about it rather than me lifting him in one half at a time. I brought him to the open door, got him good and close, said "up", and then I just waited him out. No more commands, no sounds, just standing there. I know he knew what I wanted. After about 3 minutes, he finally hopped in. For subsequent "ups", I did the same thing only he hopped in sooner and sooner each time. To this day he still pauses about 3-10 seconds before he'll hop in.
I have no idea if this will help, but it worked for us!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Would a ramp help with the car? And perhaps a ramp or hydraulic lift for the table? Alternatively I would try the idea of teaching him "Up" onto a low platform, and gradually increase the height - or ask one of his previous handlers what cue they used, perhaps?


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## SandyTopknot (8 mo ago)

Thank you all for your excellent suggestions. I have asked both the breeder and the handler and they had no suggestions. Neither of them wanted him jumping anywhere, so he was taught to be still. 

Ooooooohhhh...release command! I hadn't thought of that. I'll ask them what, if anything, they used.

I have a ramp - he hates it and will use it if I give him no choice. I really don't like to ask a dog to do something they hate, so I quit using it when he never warmed up to it.

We've done the "wait it out" thing. Kacey loves the car and flies into it, and Archie has accidentally followed her a couple of times when he was chasing her. I threw a puppy party for him, with lots of praise, etc., hoping it would help him understand that jumping in is a really great thing. Nope...not so far. And I'm pretty sure I could wait from sunup to sundown without success...this boy believes the rule that says "be still near the car." 

The dogs do ride in crates, which Archie loves. There's plenty of landing space before he would enter the crate, so that shouldn't scare him. I love the idea of playing a game through the car - sadly, in this car set-up, the crates are in the way of that, and if I take them out, he has a completely different view of where he's going. Do you think that would make it easier or harder for him to transfer the skill, assuming I could teach him to jump in without the crates in?

I love the idea of starting low and moving it steadily higher, maybe with a mat as a target. I have a couple of low platforms we can use to slowly increase the "hup-up" height. He's such a smart boy - that just might work! It'll be easy to work on that in the garage, where both the grooming table and the car live. Maybe if I can get him to "get" one, he'll mentally transfer the skill to the other. A Siberian would...would a Poodle? 

Oonapup, we NEED a video! I'm cracking up at the thought of Oona falling on her side to avoid getting in the car. 😟😟🤣😉


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

SandyTopknot said:


> Oonapup, we NEED a video! I'm cracking up at the thought of Oona falling on her side to avoid getting in the car. 😟😟🤣😉


I’m sure I’ll be able to get one soon, 😂 She did it again today in front of our house when she was expressing her feelings about how I shortchanged her with a short afternoon walk 🙃. Not the greatest behavior but the girl knows how to express herself.


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## Heartland2022 (8 mo ago)

I would use the recall command if known. Elevate a platform and get him/her to place on it. That's the command I use for our dogs recall. I just point to ground or spot and say (place). Visual cue is very important from my experience with spoos. They watch our body language like we watch theirs. So much in fact I don't even have to say anything. If my dog sees me point to a spot he will go to it and sit. He will stay there until I give his release command its just a simple ok with a hand cue. That did take some time to get him up on an elevated area though. Time and repetition is the key poodles are smart they will figure it out quickly. I've also seen people hold their hand above the dog. Then give a simple up up command to get them to go onto the elevated area.


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## TerraFirma (12 mo ago)

Did they load him into a crate and then put him in a car? Or pick him up and load him? Do you have the same crate type as his handler? If he's used to an Impact crate and you've got a wire/plastic type, he's probably like, _whoa lady...nah, that box is weird. _Did he travel in a van/RV and you've changed the height/size of the opening he's going through? So many factors may be challenging his ideas of what should be occurring.

Sounds terribly time consuming but for a few days/weeks could he eat a meal in the car? Maybe moving the bowl further and further in until he has to jump in by his own choice would cue oh, ok, I can do this and I get rewarded? (I assume you've lured him with the MOST exciting food ever already - something out of this world like cheese or meatballs...). Perhaps this with elevating a place command like @Heartland2022 says would be a two pronged approach? 

Not the same experience but my last retired show (RIP Badger) believed all tables were to stand on. I walked into my dining room a few times to find my beautiful boy free stacking himself on the table 😂. It took a bit of convincing and peer pressure from my Doberman (who took on deep shame for anyone's misbehavior) to convince Badger that only some tables were for stacking. BUT, I rewarded him for getting on the patio table. Trade off. That did blow up once for a garden party. LOL Both my retired show SFTs hopped up once plates were cleared and demanded attention. Wrought iron and the guests could handle that faux pas.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Another thing I wonder is if he just doesn't like car rides. Two of mine, my late boy Pogo and now Galen, absolutely detest riding in my station wagon. They knew the expectation; they just didn't want to do it. When they really did want to go somewhere, for instance if they knew we were going to the barn or we were going home after a weekend at the lake, they would often try to influence the vehicle choice by running to the door of the truck instead of to the hatch of my wagon. (Ritter and the late Snarky, in contrast, enjoy the station wagon; if I carelessly leave the hatch open I will find a brown dog sitting in it expectantly waiting for a ride.)


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

Off topic, but on request. Not the car behavior but it’s the same “floop”. She did not want to leave the school field to go home.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Oonapup said:


> Off topic, but on request. Not the car behavior but it’s the same “floop”. She did not want to leave the school field to go home.


And who can blame her!? She looks sooo comfortable...!


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## SandyTopknot (8 mo ago)

Cowpony, that's a very good question - does he LIKE riding in the car? I don't know. He's amazing in his crate and loves to go places. I don't know whether he likes the process of going to those places. He doesn't protest, which a Siberian most definitely would. Would a Poodle?

TerraFirma, he's in a Kennel-Aire crate, and I suspect it's a different crate than he used to travel in. I'm sure it's a different kind of vehicle - I drive a crossover and he probably rode with his handler in a motor home or box truck. We've worked on eating in the car and deeeeeelicious yummy things in the car (including Kacey in standing heat!) and he still won't get in on his own. And thank you for sharing about Badger's table dances and your Doberman's deep shame...I can almost see the blush!

LOL that Pogo and Galen tried to get you, Cowpony, to drive the truck instead of the wagon! I love my Carly the crossover, and am thinking of what else I could drive that might be easier for him to get into. Meanwhile, I'll be working on "hup up" and try to transfer that to the table and the car. When I moved from a van to a crossover, the dogs I had at the time did have a learning curve - two of them didn't mind seeing the world whiz by and one of them resented it terribly!

Oonapup, OMG...hilarious! Thank you!!!


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Those seem pretty big jumps, and as he was young when exhibited and it seems often advised to avoid big jumping until the growth plates are set, as well as to avoid environmentally influenced hip dysplasia, I am taking a guess they might not have asked for this.


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## Pavie (May 4, 2021)

It's been a while, but when we trained the "on it" or "place" command, it was helpful to have Pavie on a leash and have the thing I want him to jump on to next to me (e.g., wall, box, mat), then use big forward moving body language, like taking a walk forward in an exaggerated way, and that really encouraged him to jump all by himself. And he got lots of praises and rewards for jumping up. After he got the idea, I paired it with hand signals and voice. For cars, it was harder, since I can't move forward with him as the opening is small, so it was harder (maybe back of car might be easier, we just use the passenger seat). And I think he was a bit nervous about going in cars at first. What worked well was for myself to go in and call him, and he would come to me. Afterwards, I was able to teach him to go in by himself. He loves jumping in cars now, because it means going to fun places.


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

Happy will hop into the car 50% of the time. The other 50%, she puts her paws up on the seat and turns back to me as if saying "lift me daddy" - what a princess. Happy seems to understand "get up" and "get in." I haven't trained it, she just got it.


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## Footprints&pawmarks (Mar 8, 2021)

I started "Paws up" by having a previous dog put her paws up on a curb in a park where there was zero traffic. I tried this after having a similar problem of her not wanting to get into the car, or even put her paws there. Putting both front paws on the curb, all of about 6 inches high, was a nice, easy start to the process. Of course, I threw her a party when she did it, and she looked so proud of herself.


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## SandyTopknot (8 mo ago)

Training update on Archie - he earned his CGC last week because he has an awesome "plunk" instead of "sit." 😉 Tomorrow he begins in a class to prepare for Beginner Novice and CD work. Meanwhile, "paws up" is pretty awesome everywhere except the table and the back of the car. He's an interesting training challenge and a delightful boy to play with, so we'll get there...eventually... 🤞🐾💖🐾🤣


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

SandyTopknot said:


> Training update on Archie - he earned his CGC last week because he has an awesome "plunk" instead of "sit." 😉 Tomorrow he begins in a class to prepare for Beginner Novice and CD work. Meanwhile, "paws up" is pretty awesome everywhere except the table and the back of the car. He's an interesting training challenge and a delightful boy to play with, so we'll get there...eventually... 🤞🐾💖🐾🤣


Yay! Congrats to you both!


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## TX_DUKE (7 mo ago)

Starla said:


> Ooohhh this is interesting! Phoebe also refuses the car sometimes, my guess is because she used to get carsick. Im not sure this is helpful, but maybe you can modify: A trainer told me to open both back doors and play a game through the car. I would be on one side and someone else on the other and she already knew “hop up” means to get onto something. She will “hop up” onto most anything, but was balking at the car. So one person on each side and the person with the dog says hop up, immediately followed by the other person calling the dog. Dog has to “hop up” to get to the other person, and no, going around is not allowed Phoebe! 🤣 She would also be much more reliable at “hop up” into the car if we were going home, so maybe training somewhere that is not home would be helpful? Maybe if you can get him to get into the side door, you can transfer that to the back?
> Poodle minds really are incredible with how they learn; different from other breeds!


We had a similar situation with Duke. He would get car sick as a puppy and associated the car with getting sick. My poodle psychoanalysis! We did a technique similar to Starla’s. Except I would get in the back seat and coax him with treats. Lots of praise, treats etc when he got in. He still isn’t crazy about cars, but will get in on his own. It’s more of a crawling up into the back seat. It’s funny, he could leap tall buildings in a single bound, but slow crawls into the back seat like it’s this huge struggle. Silly poodle!


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

SandyTopknot said:


> Training update on Archie - he earned his CGC last week because he has an awesome "plunk" instead of "sit." 😉 Tomorrow he begins in a class to prepare for Beginner Novice and CD work. Meanwhile, "paws up" is pretty awesome everywhere except the table and the back of the car. He's an interesting training challenge and a delightful boy to play with, so we'll get there...eventually... 🤞🐾💖🐾🤣


Awesome update 👏💓! You are such a team already 😊🥰.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

Congrats on the CGC


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Congratulations on getting your first Title with Archie! Your going to be great together! 🎊🎈🏅


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Congratulations. What a feat.


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## Getting ready (May 4, 2019)

Nice work Archie and owner!


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Well Done to you and Archie! Congrats on the CGC 🏆


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