# Titers and annual vaccinations--What my 2 vets say



## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I take my 3 dogs to a vet practice where there are 2 vets. I could see either vet or assign my dogs to one or the other. I assigned Dakota to Dr. Kuhns, the vet who owns a miniature blue poodle, and assigned my PWDs to the other vet Dr. Downs.

Both Dakota (1+ yrs) and Neeka (5 yrs) are due for boosters of their Parvo/Distemper. When I took the dogs in a few weeks ago for a heartworm test, I added titer tests for each of them. Since I have to do what the vets recommends for vaccination in order for Petplan to cover them, there was no guarantee the vets would not want to vaccinate but I wanted to know what the titers said. It was $120 for each dog for titers.

I took Neeka to Dr Downs today and she said her titers were positive and we would not vaccinate. She put in the computer to add titer tests to each heartworm test every year in April. I asked her about the 2 vaccinations usually included with Parvo/Distemper (I do not give Lepto vaccines even if recommended). She said the other 2 are rare in this area and Neeka does not need them. So no vaccinations today for Neeka. 

I have an appointment with the other vet for Dakota's vaccination at the end of April. She told me before I paid for the titers that she felt Dakota was too young to rely on the titers test, which do not give enough information about how well they are protected. When Dakota is 4 years, I believe she too will go by annual titer tests. So Dakota will get the 4-in-one vaccination at the end of April and his 3-year Rabies about 3 weeks after that. Then it will be 3 years before we have to consider vaccinations again. So I probably won't have to do titers on Dakota until 3 years from now, and then it will be annually.

I am thankful that my vets are open to titers even though they are conservative in their viewpoint. Wanting to take the safer route with Dakota is understandable.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

MiniPoo said:


> I take my 3 dogs to a vet practice where there are 2 vets. I could see either vet or assign my dogs to one or the other. I assigned Dakota to Dr. Kuhns, the vet who owns a miniature blue poodle, and assigned my PWDs to the other vet Dr. Downs.
> 
> Both Dakota (1+ yrs) and Neeka (5 yrs) are due for boosters of their Parvo/Distemper. When I took the dogs in a few weeks ago for a heartworm test, I added titer tests for each of them. Since I have to do what the vets recommends for vaccination in order for Petplan to cover them, there was no guarantee the vets would not want to vaccinate but I wanted to know what the titers said. It was $120 for each dog for titers.
> 
> ...



My Vet also would not let me titer Timi at the one year mark, she said one more vaccine, then titer in 3 years and every year thereafter. I said OK, figuring odds her that that will be her last vaccine ever.
PS, at Manhattan prices, I believe that the titer is less than you paid, and if they should need the vaccine after the results, the vaccine is free.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Its good you have a vet that is willing to titer. I just did distemper parvo titers on my girls. Branna is good for both but unfortunately Killa is ok on distemper but low on parvo ?. I can not vaccinate her due to her autoimmune issues. I have to call the lab up and ask them what her IgG levels she had on the parvo. Just because she tested negative doesn't mean she has no immunity, it just means she doesn't have enough immunity to produce a positive result. With my high risk of being in contact with parvo and bringing it home or her coming into contact with it I would worry if she tested with 0 immunity and would reconsider vaccinating her for it. Such a difficult decision!! I paid $120ish ($58 and some odd cents) for both my girls to have the titer done. That is at cost and without tech fees, since I did it myself. It was done through Antech Labs.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I agree that the cost of titers was high. This year I just wanted to get it done. I willl think about the cost next year. For some reason, the University of Illinois does not do this test. I think they sent it out to a place in Texas.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Send to Dr. Schultz at U of W. $25.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

During this year I will give my vets your sources to see if we can do the titers cheaper next year.

Thanks!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

MiniPoo said:


> During this year I will give my vets your sources to see if we can do the titers cheaper next year.
> 
> Thanks!


Your vet probably won't have heard of doing it through Shultz, youll just need to ask them to draw the blood (they will charge you for blood draw, usually $10-$15) and then mail it (can be sent regular mail - nothing special) to U of W with a $25 check included. If you send me a PM with your email address, I can send you the info for next time.


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

I'd like to ask a couple questions as I'm new to Dr. Dodds vaccine protocols.

Pretty much she only advocates the distemper and parvo vaccines, and rabies where required by law.

When looking at my local AKC sanctioned obedience school policies for puppy kindergarten, it says the pup must have at least it's first 2 set of shots, but it doesn't specifically say which. The groomers in my area have the same policies.

So, in y'all's experience, do you think just the parvo & distemper is enough to allow my pup to enroll?

Out of curiosity, why would a vet choose to use mercury based rabies shots instead of non-mercury?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

poofs said:


> I'd like to ask a couple questions as I'm new to Dr. Dodds vaccine protocols.
> 
> Pretty much she only advocates the distemper and parvo vaccines, and rabies where required by law.
> 
> ...


When it comes to core vaccines, Distemper & Parvo are the only ones facilities will require. They don't care if your dog received DPV (distemper + parvo), DHPPV (distemper hepatitis parainfluenza parvovirus), DHLPPV (distemper + hepatitis + Lepto + parainfluenza + parvovirus) etc. My dogs only receive DPV vaccines (Distemper + Parvo). 

Rabies is of course required by law. Some facilities will require bordetella, not all. I always do intranasal bordetella.

You'll need to check with the specific facility to see if they require the first 2 sets of "Distemper and Parvo" (in quotes because that is exactly the wording I would use when asking them) or if they also require bordetella or rabies. USUALLY it is just the first two sets of Distemper and Parvo required.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

poofs said:


> I'd like to ask a couple questions as I'm new to Dr. Dodds vaccine protocols.
> 
> Pretty much she only advocates the distemper and parvo vaccines, and rabies where required by law.
> 
> ...


The way I read the protocols, she advocates waiting until 20 weeks to give the rabies if the law allows, not that she advocates foregoing the rabies all together. But that is just how I understand it. Personally, I think rabies is a pretty important vaccine, but then I do live in a rural area and Hans hunts so I would be pretty naive to think we can avoid contact with wildlife with 100% certainty.

Here, I know the boarding kennels I've looked into won't take a dog younger than 4 months. Here, rabies is required at 4 months (16 weeks) so they won't be allowed without it. I would guess groomers and puppy classes might have the same requirements but I'm not sure since I groom Hans myself.


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## seminolewind (Mar 11, 2016)

Since insurance is insurance, there should not be an issue with having your own personal copies of the titers instead of vaccine after vaccine. Just giving vaccines does not mean their titers are high enough, just considered high enough. Titers should be a step up from plain vaccine.

Related subject:

I hear many times that people hate vaccines because it's putting poisons or toxins into their dog. This is not the case. If a dog would come in contact with, let's say, Parvo, he could get it and die. He would die because his titers are not high enough to protect him, and the exposure comes when the dog has no antibodies or not enough built to fight the infection.

The idea is to give an exposure to Parvo prior to being exposed to the real thing. This means that the body has built the antibodies already and they can fight the disease and win. A titer measures how high the number of antibodies is.

A vaccine is a trick. It's a way of exposing a dog to a virus without causing it because the virus has been changed in some way that it can't give the dog the virus. And it's much better to build the "army" before the "enemy" shows up. 

People talk about natural resistance. Introducing a chemical into a body that kills a virus is not natural resistance. Being exposed to a virus and the body then building antibodies is natural. Even better if the exposure is to the virus that is made benign. 

So titers are a better way of showing how many antibodies have been built already versus a non-tittered series of injections that is "most likely" having built enough.

I hope I'm not reiterating what people already know. If so, please let me know. If I should move this to it's own post please let me know. Thnx.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

My vet will do titers too -- I go through Dr. Dodds Hemopet site and it's considerably less expensive, and my vet begrudgingly complies since they make less $$$. I got Sunny when he was 3 1/2 from his breeder in Canada -- although he has to get rabies, she told me he should not need anything else -- ever; his titers 2 years ago showed he did not need any additional vaccines. He is 8 now and is due for an annual soon for heartworm, etc. and may do titers again, to be safe. After reading some articles by Dodd, it appears most of the vaccinations last about 10 years, I believe.

http://www.hemopet.org/clients/1414...erature/TEST_REQ_FORMandINSTRUCTIONS_2016.pdf


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

liljaker said:


> I got Sunny when he was 3 1/2 from his breeder in Canada -- although he has to get rabies, she told me he should not need anything else -- ever; his titers 2 years ago showed he did not need any additional vaccines.


I have no pet insurance and a team of good vets. They know that Tonka, at eleven years old, will never have another vaccine other than the required rabies dose. Usually I just get a shrug. 

If they think I'm a bonehead, they're polite enuf to not mention it to my face.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Countryboy said:


> I have no pet insurance and a team of good vets. They know that Tonka, at eleven years old, will never have another vaccine other than the required rabies dose. Usually I just get a shrug.
> 
> If they think I'm a bonehead, they're polite enuf to not mention it to my face.


I have 2 friends who lost their poodles from over vaccination - both standards -- so I am always very cautious. When I was going to enroll Sunny in some classes early on, they would have accepted titers, etc., but I decided against it anyway.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

liljaker said:


> I have 2 friends who lost their poodles from over vaccination - both standards -- so I am always very cautious. When I was going to enroll Sunny in some classes early on, they would have accepted titers, etc., but I decided against it anyway.



It is good to have a Vet who believes in titers - my Vet's receipts don't mention titers, they just show the vaccine due date at some point in the future. Nobody but my vet and I know if the last one was really a vaccine or a titer, and anybody would accept that as being "current" on vaccinations.
But if they want bordatella, then they don't want Timi - the last time I gave that 15 years ago, the dog came down with kennel cough ten days later. Never gave it again, and never had a dog come down with it since.


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

It's all really complicated.

You want to start training and socializing your pup at a tender age, but then you need to wait till after momma's colostrum has worn off to get the most out of vaccinations and not over vaccinate.

Then the fear of loving a puppy (spending 2k+ on puppy, supplies, healthcare) and it passing away because it was one of the 5% who had an adverse reaction to the vaccine.

Ignorance is bliss!


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> It is good to have a Vet who believes in titers - my Vet's receipts don't mention titers, they just show the vaccine due date at some point in the future. Nobody but my vet and I know if the last one was really a vaccine or a titer, and anybody would accept that as being "current" on vaccinations.
> But if they want bordatella, then they don't want Timi - the last time I gave that 15 years ago, the dog came down with kennel cough ten days later. Never gave it again, and never had a dog come down with it since.


My vet receipt for Neeka on Wed. showed when she was due to get titers next year, but she failed to fill in when Neeka got titers this year. I just emailed my vet showing where on the receipt she needs to fill in the titers done this April (see pic below).

Once the vet fills in the date of the current titers, then I can use the receipt to get a dog park permit for Neeka. I am still on the fence about getting a dog park permit for Neeka but want to keep that as an option and have to have proof for titers for Distemper/Parvo.

I used Photoshop to crop receipt and to add the dates (in red) that I hope the vet will fill in.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

MiniPoo said:


> My vet receipt for Neeka on Wed. showed when she was due to get titers next year, but she failed to fill in when Neeka got titers this year. I just emailed my vet showing where on the receipt she needs to fill in the titers done this April (see pic below).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting. Mine does not distinguish between vaccines and titers, which is just fine with me.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

liljaker said:


> I have 2 friends who lost their poodles from over vaccination - both standards -- so I am always very cautious. When I was going to enroll Sunny in some classes early on, they would have accepted titers, etc., but I decided against it anyway.


According to Tonka's medical records from his first owner, he got a full spectrum of vaccines three times in four years... each one from different vets. How that happened, I have no idea. But his new vets know that, and have some sympathy for my attitude toward vaccinating. 

If we go by Jean Dodds and her Challenges, he's probably good for the rest of his life. And his young, aware, female vets know that too. One of my 'outs' is Tonka's age. He's only gonna be around for another 4 or 5 years anyway. 

Sunny is young. I'm glad he's in intelligent hands.


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

Callie is 5 1/2. The first two years she got her parvo/distemper. After that she had titers done. Last year the distemper immunity was getting low, so this year she had to get a booster. Molly is only one, so I'll get another series at 2 years and after that have her titered as well. They both get Lyme Disease and Heartworm titers. My vets do heartworm titer every two years, but in our case, I don't give Hartgard Dec-May, so my girls get a yearly titer. (I try not to give any more shots or medication than absolutely necessary) They do not get lepto or bordatella. (I home groom and never board them)
I agonize every year about Lyme disease shot. The tick season is going to be really bad because of a very very mild winter. The ticks never died. Last year I opted out for Callie and her test was fine. Molly is silver - I can't see ticks on her until they swell up. Even with Frontline and essential oils she managed to get one on the top of her head - in the snow and is now on antibiotics. Reluctantly I have agreed to get them the shot this year. I have mixed emotions about it, but the ticks are all over and unless you never let your dog out, they are going to be a target (and so are we)


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

liljaker. That's what I thought also, that the immunity would last 10 years. I was surprised when Callie's distemper immunity came back borderline low last year (she's 5, had the shots at one and again at 2 years and had titer at 3 and last year at 4) I had to get her a booster this year, next year will go back to titering. 
I don't know if Callie's was unusual, or whether all dogs can vary that much in holding immunity.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

SusanG said:


> liljaker. That's what I thought also, that the immunity would last 10 years. I was surprised when Callie's distemper immunity came back borderline low last year (she's 5, had the shots at one and again at 2 years and had titer at 3 and last year at 4) I had to get her a booster this year, next year will go back to titering.
> I don't know if Callie's was unusual, or whether all dogs can vary that much in holding immunity.


My ears perked up when I saw that in your last post. Thanks.


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## Deblakeside (Oct 2, 2015)

SusanG- I don't know where you are in upstate NY, but I am near Albany, and the deer ticks are awful this spring! You are right, the mild winter allowed too many to survive. I've picked a dozen off Billy, and one off me. I check him daily. This is definitely the year to make sure your dogs get the Lyme vaccine, give them a preventative (my vet just gave Billy Bravecto) treat your lawn, and check your dogs and yourself daily. 

Lyme is my nemesis! I had it when I was 18. I don't ever want to have it again! Half my face was paralyzed for two months, and I experienced aches and pains and exhaustion for close to two years. My mom, dad, and little brother also got it. My dad's went into pneumonia and he was rushed to the hospital because he could hardly breathe. I have twice had my dr. put me on antibiotics after a deer tick bite when I didn't find the tick until the next day...Don't mess with it! Especially this year!


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