# First puppy clip at 13 weeks! (and questions)



## princesspenny (Feb 16, 2015)

looks good- my puppy needs a trim too but im afraid to ruin her!


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## loves (Jul 2, 2013)

Show type puppy trim or just "puppy trim"? At 13 weeks, took way too much off for show trim. The jacket on a continental ends at the last rib, but not part of a puppy trim. Tail looks like you took too much off at the base, with tail down, don't go past where it covers the anal opening. Rear legs needs blending, looks like a poof in the middle. Pretty good for first try. Shirlee Kalstone's book is an invaluable tool for anyone who grooms a poodle.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Not a bad start! That croup angle is way too steep though. You want it to be much more level so that it does not drop off from the topline.


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## Keivus (May 26, 2015)

Yeah, I knew I took way too much off the rear/leg lines. Cut it when it was dirty and then realized my mistake after bathing him, so I just cut it down to even it out. Not too worried about that growing in. Tail was a mistake when he was a few week younger and moved while shaving, not sure if it's going to grow back in time though :/ He actually has a pretty intense snap/curved tail so i'm not really sure how the pom is going to go to try and hide some of it. 

I'm not sure where the slope from the back to the neck (crest) is supposed to start? Also....how steep. I've seen some show puppies that have a huge arch, and some with a more level back, I have no clue which is to do. Also how much do you trim on the sides of the neck or after the jacket into the hips? I cant find any photos above or facing to view the flow of the trim. I know not to touch the topknot or hocks, or crest...but how much do you trim on the sides of the dog? He is a miniature. 

I dont have any show experience what so ever, so I want to learn as much as possible before he hits 6 months. I figured if I start now he has some time to grow back a mistake. Don't want him looking like a glaringly obvious novice from a hair cut. 

So many questions! Thanks for the comments! He's currently getting a 30 on the face and feet once to twice a week to try and get him use to it. I don't pluck his ears...hoping that isn't required for the ring?

I also read a few places some people cut down silvers young to get them to clear faster, but I can't imagine getting all the hair back in time...


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## princesspenny (Feb 16, 2015)

Is there a good tutorial somewhere on this...i need to shape my puppy for the ring but i dont know where to start!


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

I agree with the tail and shortening, I'd bring the edge down maybe 7-10 mm. Make sure to round off the bottom of the tail pom just like the top, or it'll look like a Hitachi Magic Wand :lol:

The forefeet are a bit flat, make sure not to shave the toes too far up.

As the "big coat" grows, you will need to keep altering the angle of the top and bottom lines -- have you decided if you want to go for the sportier blended style, or the poofier "ball" style with the pronounced stop? See my sorry little doodles on the attachment. Up here, blended sporty style is in vogue for all clips that are not Conti or English.

Rear leg blending should start at about the level of the buttocks. You could take the rear even closer. Make sure to clear the flank since it's crucial for the slim waistline look.

Attachement legend:
- light grey: area that's scissored close
- dark grey: pom shape / blending area for hind leg
- dark purple: projected coat growth (styled)
- light purple: projected further coat growth /styled)

IMO his breast does not need much more length, we don't want him to look too heavy and long.

As for the sides of the neck, one wants to blend them towards the sides One does not want the neck look bulky on the underside.



> I also read a few places some people cut down silvers young to get them to clear faster, but I can't imagine getting all the hair back in time...


IMO the slow clearing is a lovely sight to behold, and you'll have the cleared silver for most of the dog's life anyways!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Peccan - if the OP is in the states, basing her puppy trim off the lovely doodle you made will get her disqualified. :/


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

AKC Puppy Trim cannot have any of the breaks in coat as you see in the Scandinavian and puppy trims in other countries. Here is a quick little sketch to help you see a little more of outline the pup needs to have. This is NOT a perfect sketch. Hopefully someone more experienced than me can help you more....You can see how I leveled out the croup, squared off the rear. Also, the tuckup/waistline should not be extreme at all in an AKC puppy trim and needs to be moved forward as I did in the sketch.


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Peccan - if the OP is in the states, basing her puppy trim off the lovely doodle you made will get her disqualified. :/


Aw darn! Yet another thing that makes me feel irrelevant on the board :I Had no idea AKC is so strict with show clips. Up here a slightly variant clip would only warrant a note from the judge.

Well I can always hope some FCI peep comes along. If only I could edit that post I'd add a caveat right there.


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## Keivus (May 26, 2015)

I am in Canada, so the CKC. Though how I SO WISH we could have more clips, otherwise i'd be jumping on the scandi so fast. 

I guess i'll let him grow some more coat and post another photo and work it out. I don't have a mentor so it's just me figuring out things on my own. 

So should the flank be cut closer...or left full but with the rear angles put in? I'm assuming you take in the waist to give some definition, leave the chest, the take in again at the throat. If you were to be using a guard comb...how thick would it be?

For feet shaving, it's to the ankle bone is it not? His front feet were as tight as his back feet, hoping it's just a puppy growing thing. 

Next time I do him ill post all the lengths and what I do for other groomers trying to figure out their show puppy trims.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Keivus said:


> I am in Canada, so the CKC. Though how I SO WISH we could have more clips, otherwise i'd be jumping on the scandi so fast.
> 
> I guess i'll let him grow some more coat and post another photo and work it out. I don't have a mentor so it's just me figuring out things on my own.
> 
> ...


I think CKC rules are about the same as AKC in regard to clips, but someone else will need to weigh in.

The tuckup should be moved petty far forward from where the natural tuckup is. This visually shortens the back. Be sure to leave lots of fill where the front of ther rear leg connects into the tuckup.

Shave feet to just abivr last knuckle.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I think you've done great for a start. They often don't have a lot of hair to work with at first. Your pup is very young still. It's amazing how much you need. lol. You should have seen Matisse's head hair by the time he was just over a year. It got very long and a nightmare to maintain. But when he was super young, it wasn't that much. Your puppy is adorable btw.

I don't know how to describe it or how to do it. But maybe a puppy picture would help. This is my Matisse when he was a puppy....I forget how old, but a number of months old. I had a master groomer refine him for this show. She was so meticulous and I was so lucky she was available. I never did my own grooming for shows. But now that he's retired, I go after both my Poodles with clippers and scissors and just hack away. lol.

See how much hair there is? His head hair here hadn't grown a ton yet.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

This is an 11 week old puppy. Not mine (it's a beautiful Feldspar bitch) and not my grooming, but a good example of what a puppy trim should be looking like at a similar age to your puppy.


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## Keivus (May 26, 2015)

Thanks guys for all the pointers  I'm going to let him grow in some more before poking at it. Ohh the regret of chopping off that rear hair. He does have quite a bit to grow still on his top knot and legs but his chest is getting nice and full. 

Going to spend some time looking at winning minis in their puppy clips, seeing the photos defiantly helps. 

I did take the tip off his tail so it gave me a much better idea on how much more the bottom has to fill out. Wayyyy too big of a band. 









He's already getting fluffier a week later though looking a little roached all hunched up on the table with his head down silly thing (also that fluff on his back leg his the other hock).

Going to take a moment to delight at how light his little silver muzzle is getting! He did pretty good with his face shave today. Feet and nails are another story lol.


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## catsaqqara (May 20, 2011)

This video might help with the neck area. It's long but here are the 2 places in it that she clips the neck.

https://youtu.be/e8rbg0LRubM?t=13m29s

https://youtu.be/e8rbg0LRubM?t=32m21s


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## Keivus (May 26, 2015)

That video is brilliant thank you SO MUCH! It really helps some of the areas I was trying to see and corrects a couple things i was told incorrectly.


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## Keivus (May 26, 2015)

Thought i'd do a quick update at 19 weeks. It's defiantly been a lesson in what not to do. Really regret hacking away at him that early. A few ill placed snips and i'm still waiting for enough coat to come in so I can fix it. 

It's a slow process growing back that rear. Took all this time for the side length of his rear legs to grow enough so I could trim in a level side. Still a bunch of hair needed on his rear, legs, neck and tail to start making it look like a proper puppy trim. 

Atleast his back is starting to look better! Had the poor guy looking all roached when he isnt, and the tail is ever so slowly filling in where I took the band too short.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Looks much much better! Great job! My only comment is to take it tighter and more level right in front of the tail (end of hip bone to just in front of tail.)


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## Desiree (Feb 14, 2010)

He's looking good!


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## loves (Jul 2, 2013)

Looking better and better. Legs should be columns all the way down, tops of front legs are fine, but they are getting narrower as they go down. Let the hair grow all over, you need more in a lot of areas. You've got the idea and plenty of time to perfect. Keep up the good work.


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## Keivus (May 26, 2015)

Thanks guys, i'll tighten up the back level when he gets a bit more fluff on his next trim  The legs are a problem, I haven't trimmed them (besides horizontally to match). I am having the hardest time getting coat to grow in on the wrists/pasterns. I'm assuming it's because he's active all the time and that part of the coat is usually wet so the hair isn't growing as quickly?


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## loves (Jul 2, 2013)

Keivus, yep back of front legs hard to grow on an active pet. Keep coat clean as possible and it will grow. Do mini's pee on their front legs like Standards? Sully does, all the time. First dog I've ever had that does that. I've had cockers in full show coat that didnt' even get any pee on their legs. Gotta love 'em.


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## MaceeChocKisses (May 19, 2015)

Nice work!


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