# Grooming show Puppy Clip



## SophieGirl (Jul 17, 2009)

Hello,
I am needing a little help. I am needing some direction on trimming and clipping my 9 month old female standard. She has a show in a couple of weeks and I trimmed a little but she needs a lot to be done yet and I am scared to touch her really until Someone gives me some info on trimming the show puppy clip. ANy help?


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## amerique2 (Jun 21, 2009)

Just found the "Grooming Puppy Show Coat" post while doing a search for what grooming equipment to get. It is wonderful. And Brandon's website has so much information and photos to illustrate it. Check it out!


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## SophieGirl (Jul 17, 2009)

Yeah, I have seen it.Here are some pics of her right now. Tell me what you think? i know they are not the best stacks, but i live alone so trying to get a perfect one of her standing is kinda hard.maybe someone can do a little brushing on her coat so i would know what to do?


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

Are you showing her AKC or UKC??? If you are showing her AKC, sorry to say and I don not want to be mean, but she will not get any points with that top knot.....it looks as though you clipped it, it needs to be...she looks like a mini, so about 8-10in long by now. If you are showing her in a couple weeks, I would not take her if yoiu are showing AKC. UKC shows accept the Utility clip/sporting clip that is what you would look up online to get an idea of how to groom her or just take her to a groomer, it is a very basic clip and like I said UKC accepts it but AKC does not.


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## bamsd619 (Apr 9, 2009)

Hello:

I want to start off my saying grooming a poodle for show is an art and I have been doing this for 5 years and I am still learning everyday......

Like the other posts, my first question is are you showing in an AKC or UKC show? If you are showing in a UKC show, you will be okay with some scissor work. IF you are showing AKC, unfortunately, you puppy is not in condition for an AKC show. The puppy lacks neck coat and top knot coat which is vital. I would give teh puppy at least 8 weeks of growth and conditioning before showing in AKC conformation events. 

I have attached a picture of Skyler, he is just 8 months old in that picture and you can see the type of coat he has. I highly recommend the following:

1. Properly bath and condition the coat once a week. Remember a clean coat, grows coat!

2. Your puppy needs a "shelf" in the rear. I would scissor at a 30 degree angle on the back (top line) and then shape the sizes (rear legs). That would help you create that puppy cut look. 

Remember, don"t get discouraged and you are doing GREAT so far!! Keep the great work and you will be there in no time!!


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## SophieGirl (Jul 17, 2009)

Yes, I am showing AKC and she is a standard. I am aware that she has some hair growth to do.I have a handler working with me and he does agrees that she needs some specieal trimming, but there is no one around here to help me. He does not specialize in poodles. It is a little discouraging. Since I have trimmed her up a little in the rear her top looks a lot better and a little longer.


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## SophieGirl (Jul 17, 2009)

passion4poodles said:


> Are you showing her AKC or UKC??? If you are showing her AKC, sorry to say and I don not want to be mean, but she will not get any points with that top knot.....it looks as though you clipped it, it needs to be...she looks like a mini, so about 8-10in long by now. If you are showing her in a couple weeks, I would not take her if yoiu are showing AKC. UKC shows accept the Utility clip/sporting clip that is what you would look up online to get an idea of how to groom her or just take her to a groomer, it is a very basic clip and like I said UKC accepts it but AKC does not.


She does not have a sport utility clip. Her hair is longer than it looks in the picture. It dried flat when i blow dryd it bc she doesnt like her face blow dryd to it was hard to make it strait. Since I have trimmed her you can see a differance.


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## SophieGirl (Jul 17, 2009)

bamsd619 said:


> Hello:
> 
> I want to start off my saying grooming a poodle for show is an art and I have been doing this for 5 years and I am still learning everyday......
> 
> ...



What about switches? or Wiggies? would that work for her topknot? or is that to risky to try for the show?


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

SophieGirl said:


> She does not have a sport utility clip. Her hair is longer than it looks in the picture. It dried flat when i blow dryd it bc she doesnt like her face blow dryd to it was hard to make it strait. Since I have trimmed her you can see a differance.



I was not saying she had a sporting clip, I was saying her top knot looked very short and that it would be long enough for a sporting clip for UKC, but since you are showing AKC, you really do need more growth, but taking her in the ring for practice is good.




SophieGirl said:


> What about switches? or Wiggies? would that work for her topknot? or is that to risky to try for the show?


These are not allowed in the AKC ring, some use them anyways, but if you are NOT an experianced poodle clip groomer, better not to even try, since you could be excused from the ring, and you are only allowed 3 times to be excused before you can NEVER step into and AKC ring with that dog again, why risk it.


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

you know that swatches,"wiggies" or any type of extension is illegal right? 
its against AKC rules for showing dogs since it is a foriegn substance. That being said alot of people (especially in poodles) break the rules. 
you could be caught putting an extention on you r dog, I wouldnt do it. 
the judges tend to overlook alot of hairspray or rubberbands, but unless you know how to hide it, I dont think they could overlook an extension


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

I wanted to attach a picture edited with the profile outlined for you I hope you don't mind, but sometimes <sigh> show people can be really mean (I know!!!!) 

now obviously poodles arent boxes so the corners can be rounded some, but this is the general idea, It also helps to clip in front of a mirror or to take a step back to see the profile 


I added a tail to her ,because i dont really know where hers is it may not be accurate


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## amerique2 (Jun 21, 2009)

FF putting that graphic on the photo really helps me visualize the puppy clip. Great idea.


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

:sheep:I just imported it into paint 

they really like the poodle puppys to look angley (is that a word?) any who this is the only way I could figure it out there arent any how to videos 
and I am sick of putting my overly hairy lumpy dogs into the ring and getting laughed at lol


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## highhorse (Sep 17, 2008)

Is the American puppy clip different to the English show ring's puppy pants? By the time our puppies go into the ring as a minor puppy, they are expected to have a reasonable mane and a top knot that can be taken up in a band and blended into the mane. We set the mane at about 5 months, giving it enough time to settle down before going into the ring. The mane is only tipped for a while, to keep it growing and correctly shaped.


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

Highhorse- arent puppies (and i think adults ) shown in a T-clip over there? 

the american puppy clip is kind of the same, except with no division between the jacket and the pants, it should all blend cleanly 
alot of people trim the sides almost flat maybe to make the puppy look like he has more hair?


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## SophieGirl (Jul 17, 2009)

frostfirestandards said:


> I wanted to attach a picture edited with the profile outlined for you I hope you don't mind, but sometimes <sigh> show people can be really mean (I know!!!!)
> 
> now obviously poodles arent boxes so the corners can be rounded some, but this is the general idea, It also helps to clip in front of a mirror or to take a step back to see the profile
> 
> ...




Thank you soooooo much! Some show people are very nice and others cannot be so nice. I appreciate you doing this. It looks really good and shows me where to add and where to take off more. I know that wiggies and things aren't allowed, (commenting to other post) but so many people use them I didnt know if they were really that strict on them or not. I really dont know much about them. I really want my dogs to be Real, but I thought it was worth asking about. Thanks again so much


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

YW 

honestly, if I didnt have help from some of the nice people, I wouldnt be doing this any more(showing) 
some will just snicker behind your back (or in front of you) and others will give you the wrong information, but a few people out there truly "give a crap" and will help you out. 

I have seen pros use swatches, but really its better to do the honest thing and just grow the hair. I think getting "caught" really depends on the judge. If you are new, you dont know the judges that well (not like the people who show to them every week any way) Like it or not, a dog show can be all about whos on the end of the lead. 
I have seen pros take in dogs that are groomed to the nines, and then BOV go to the one dog NOT wearing hairspray 
its almost impossible to know whos going to be put up from one day to the next . 

just keep doing what you are doing, and get that hair on the back of her neck and top of her head as straight and long as you can on show day. 

If you decide to show her, thats good to get her in the ring and treat it like practice for her, dont stress if you dont place, dont stress if you do place, if you stress she will know and get freaked out. 

oh and whatever you do dont visit the vendors with food first, if you do she will think everybody everywhere has food LOL


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Please don't take this the wrong way, but why use a handler that doesn't show/groom poodles? What can he do that you can't? If I were you, I would find a handler or breeder that's willing to mentor a newbie. JMHO


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## katsdogworld (Jan 24, 2009)

ARGH I get soooo frustrated with AKC rules and politics. So, they state that bands and hairspray are discouraged, but obviously this is not true as what I call the "elvis" style is everywhere. The hair moves in one piece, who's fooling whom? Let's be real here folks, poodle hair would not stand up ten/twelve inches if it were not sprayed. Heck, I've seen the cans ringside!!!
Also, wiggies are common with pro handlers, and amateurs are strictly warned they could get in trouble. If this were true than they why can/do the pros get away with them?


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

katsdogworld said:


> ARGH I get soooo frustrated with AKC rules and politics. So, they state that bands and hairspray are discouraged, but obviously this is not true as what I call the "elvis" style is everywhere. The hair moves in one piece, who's fooling whom? Let's be real here folks, poodle hair would not stand up ten/twelve inches if it were not sprayed. Heck, I've seen the cans ringside!!!
> Also, wiggies are common with pro handlers, and amateurs are strictly warned they could get in trouble. If this were true than they why can/do the pros get away with them?


This is the exact reason I don't/won't show AKC. There are way to may politics and double standards when it comes to what is and is not considered "cheating"


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## SophieGirl (Jul 17, 2009)

frostfirestandards said:


> YW
> 
> honestly, if I didnt have help from some of the nice people, I wouldnt be doing this any more(showing)
> some will just snicker behind your back (or in front of you) and others will give you the wrong information, but a few people out there truly "give a crap" and will help you out.
> ...




Aww Your so sweet. We need to talk more often. It is nice to hear encouraging words. I hope once I learn what I need to know I can be the helpful one to someone else. Thanks a million!


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

katsdogworld said:


> ARGH I get soooo frustrated with AKC rules and politics. So, they state that bands and hairspray are discouraged, but obviously this is not true as what I call the "elvis" style is everywhere. The hair moves in one piece, who's fooling whom? Let's be real here folks, poodle hair would not stand up ten/twelve inches if it were not sprayed. Heck, I've seen the cans ringside!!!
> Also, wiggies are common with pro handlers, and amateurs are strictly warned they could get in trouble. If this were true than they why can/do the pros get away with them?


EXACTLY!!!! I discouraged her from using them simply because she will be in the ring with pro's, even if the pro's use them, SG you would not have the "experiance" (aka: popularity contest points) in the ring to get away with it, and THEY ( pro handlers) know how to "hide" them better, I wish you the best of luck in the ring, I do not show AKC, I showed like 3 times and MAN! It was difficulte with the pro's in there. UKC sounds ALOT more fun, NO pro's allowed UNLESS they own the dog, AKC is challenging, but it is rewarding if you can play the politics game. 

Remember what AG says....DON"T freak out lol I went in the ring the first time thinking OMG there is a firing squad on the other side of the ring and if I mess up I will be shot I was so nervous, but once I got in there it was so fast I did not really have alot of time to think about anything but stacking and presenting my dog! LOL!! There are people out there that will like FFS said, that will feed you the wrong info, turn their backs on you or flat out tell you off lol, but don't listen to them if this is what you want GO FOR IT and eventually you will find the person that has the experiance and knowledge that they are willing to share to get you there! Always Always Always play the game to have fun!!!!


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## highhorse (Sep 17, 2008)

This is a picture of Inca being finished for the ring. She is a toy but the standard poodles are similar, the clip being slightly modified with the mane starting a bit forward of where Inca's begins.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3228/2622561986_56f0407f82_m.jpg


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## bamsd619 (Apr 9, 2009)

Okay, I will add my 2 cents about "wiggies/switches" and showing in AKC shows. Yes, most pro handlers use "wiggies/switches". Working with switches is VERY hard and takes A LOT of practice. There are definite techniques and if you don"t know the "tricks and tips" don"t try it!


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Resurrecting an old thread but the photo of Sophie with the lines and angles drawn over it is going to be very helpful to me. This is a far cry from the drawing in the Illustrated Standard the link on the PCA site takes you to. 

Now the problem I have. Originally Twilight was not going AKC until ready to compete in the OH classes as I would LOVE one of the Owner Handled Champion medallions. So of course we started to set her puppy pants for UKC competition at our last trim... Wry grin now it turns out my friend will be showing her puppy in the big show in February soooo yes Twilight is now heading for an AKC show in February.. Any suggestions on how to turn that puppy pants into an acceptable clip for an AKC show? no photo as she has been playing in the snow and well she is all curls right now...


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## wolfcub81 (Feb 5, 2010)

Let her grow until the show. Weekly baths and good nutrition will help grow coat.


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