# Few White Hairs...And Other Concerns



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I don't know, Timi has some pure white hairs sprinkled on her back, but I am thinking that at this age it is more like a mismark, that is not clustered in one spot. Blues and bad blacks I think will have hair that gets progressively grayer with time. Not stark white hairs that seem absent any pigment.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

That's right, tiny poodles - it is just two single white hairs one middle of her back and the other nearer to her tail - not clustered together. They really stand out against her black coat!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Normal. I've never met a black poodle that didn't have at least a few white hairs in their coat. At 6 months she's got plenty of growth yet to come.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Thanks CharismaticMillie! So do you think it sounds like she is a black and not a blue (in spite of the brownish tinge to her coat in certain lights) or a bad black. The thing is, that tinge is more pronounced on her legs and tail and sometimes you can't see it at all. Might just be sunshine burn. Also come to think of it - I've read here on PF that saliva can also cause that brownish tint and Dulcie certainly gets slathered in saliva at the dog park! 

She is dozing again in a darker part of the apartment but when I get her into the light I will try to snap pix of the white hairs. LOL It is really kind of funny - these wiry, springy white hairs in the soft fluffy puppy coat. Reminds me of when I noticed my first white hairs (at age 18!) I guess like Human Mom, like Puppy!

Oh and speaking of coat - I've been looking into threads about coat change. I have Dulcie in a shorter clip to keep it low maintenance while I have been moving etc. I am thinking of just staying with that until after her coat finishes changing. What is the usual progression of coat change? I have noticed tight curling developing around her neck and shoulders, fading to straighter puppyish hair toward the end of her back and again tightly curled around the base of her tail. Her legs are still puppyish but the longer hair is twirling up a little bit more each week (and tending to tangle more, too).


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

That's called "grizzling." Jack is a grizzled brown, with lots of white hairs throughout his coat.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Grace is now 20 months. She has a lot of coarse white hairs on her back. Her pedigree has virtually all champions in it and the breeder has said that the white hairs are relatively normal in a black. for showing she pulls them out. Even her black hair is fairly coarse on her back. But her top knot and ears are silky.
Eric


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

ericwd9 said:


> Grace is now 20 months. She has a lot of coarse white hairs on her back. Her pedigree has virtually all champions in it and the breeder has said that the white hairs are relatively normal in a black. for showing she pulls them out. Even her black hair is fairly coarse on her back. But her top knot and ears are silky.
> Eric



Timi's white hairs do seem coarser than the black hair, making them stand out more. Maybe they are guard hairs?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Timi's white hairs do seem coarser than the black hair, making them stand out more. Maybe they are guard hairs?


Yes, they are guard hairs.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

nifty said:


> Thanks CharismaticMillie! So do you think it sounds like she is a black and not a blue (in spite of the brownish tinge to her coat in certain lights) or a bad black. The thing is, that tinge is more pronounced on her legs and tail and sometimes you can't see it at all. Might just be sunshine burn. Also come to think of it - I've read here on PF that saliva can also cause that brownish tint and Dulcie certainly gets slathered in saliva at the dog park!
> 
> She is dozing again in a darker part of the apartment but when I get her into the light I will try to snap pix of the white hairs. LOL It is really kind of funny - these wiry, springy white hairs in the soft fluffy puppy coat. Reminds me of when I noticed my first white hairs (at age 18!) I guess like Human Mom, like Puppy!
> 
> Oh and speaking of coat - I've been looking into threads about coat change. I have Dulcie in a shorter clip to keep it low maintenance while I have been moving etc. I am thinking of just staying with that until after her coat finishes changing. What is the usual progression of coat change? I have noticed tight curling developing around her neck and shoulders, fading to straighter puppyish hair toward the end of her back and again tightly curled around the base of her tail. Her legs are still puppyish but the longer hair is twirling up a little bit more each week (and tending to tangle more, too).


Well, I won't say that she won't be a a bad black - that's very common, too, and only time will tell. If she were blue, she would have a blue face at a very minimum. Most black puppies do get sunburnt coats.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Thanks CM! And what is meant by "guard hairs"?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

nifty said:


> Thanks CM! And what is meant by "guard hairs"?


The coarser hairs that are most concentrated in the neck coat, ruff, topline, etc.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Lily is sprinkled with some whites all over. Her dam is white, her sire black. I agree that sounds like grizzling. I also suspect that if you had Dulcie clipped shorter you wouldn't think the brownish cast was there anymore.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Yes, I think you are probably correct about the browning, Catherine. In the spring I will trim her a good bit shorter - for now, this is as short as I want to go with a midwestern winter looming! LOL 

So the grizzling is normal for blacks? Dulcie's parents were black and blue (though her dam is registered as a black, I believe, she looked like a dark blue to me - although then again, she might actually have been dusty from the yard she was playing in with her pups! In the whelping box, she looked pretty black).


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

nifty said:


> Yes, I think you are probably correct about the browning, Catherine. In the spring I will trim her a good bit shorter - for now, this is as short as I want to go with a midwestern winter looming! LOL
> 
> So the grizzling is normal for blacks? Dulcie's parents were black and blue (though her dam is registered as a black, I believe, she looked like a dark blue to me - although then again, she might actually have been dusty from the yard she was playing in with her pups! In the whelping box, she looked pretty black).


Yes, to varying degrees. Some blacks stay pretty black, some just get a few white hairs, some really grizzle out and some fade a bit.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

I still can't stand the term 'bad' black (or in MuffinMan's case, bad brow). They are frosted or sugar sprinkled in my book. 

So there. 

How can anything connected with poodles be bad? 
And yes, my guys have frosting, in Bug's case, just a mere sprinkling, in Muff's case - holy cow, he's a suger buzz waiting to happen. 

Even my Kelpies have some sprinkling and they don't have a fading gene or whatever causes that in poodles. I think that in some cases the white hairs are actually slightly damaged folicles from a bug bite or a too enthusiastic play or scratching session. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it. 

They are all perfectly pigmented. (so am I, Nature is highlighting my hair, rather drastically lately, for free)


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

borderkelpie, I'm with you on the term "bad black" -- I agree, how can anything connected to poodles be "bad"? 

I had an appointment today so I brought Dulcie to her groomer for a bath and when I got there I realized with our upcoming road trip, this would be her last chance for a proper grooming/trim until Christmas! So I asked her groomer to trim her down a bit so that keeping her tangle free will be a cinch while we are traveling. 

Catherine you were so right! Now that she has been clipped shorter, the brownish tinge in her coat is gone! Also, I don't know what the groomer did, but I can't find the two white hairs any more! Perhaps she plucked them or trimmed them extra short. They really stood out before, as far more wiry than the b;ack puppy coat all around them.

P.S> I also picked up a water resistant blanket coat for Dulcie today - now that she is in a shorter trim, I will worry about cold. I won't have her trimmed again until Spring, but since she is going to be meeting family on this trip, I wanted to be sure she was looking her best!


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## Bizzeemamanj (Apr 14, 2014)

Cooper is a 8 month old brown (father was a black and mother a brown) and he's getting random white hairs in his coat now. A few on his back and one near his neck. Both parents had them in a few spots on their coat too.

I'm not familiar with the expression "bad black" - what does that mean? Is it just a conformity issue?


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