# Question regarding coat color



## littlemj (Apr 21, 2009)

Hi,

In 2 weeks I am bringing home a brown std male puppy. The one I wanted went to someone who gave their deposit before me. I wanted the darker brown puppy. The one I am getting is lighter. My question is: is the shade of the puppy indicative of how dark it will be as an adult. I know most browns fade. The mother has faded to a light brown with some silver on her hind legs (she is 3 years old) and the father is pure black. Any input would be great.
Thanks


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## jester's mom (Nov 25, 2008)

This is my opinion...... From everything I have read and seen about brown poodles, the lighter they are as pups, the sooner they clear and the lighter they clear. If the mother is a light brown, then you should expect that the pup(s) may well be close to mom's color, if not mom's color as he matures. 

Are there any, or lots, of browns in the parent's pedigrees? Are there blues/silvers/apricots in their pedigrees? The reason I ask, if there are blues/silvers/apricots behind the parents, there is strong dilution of the fading gene and the pup may most likely fade faster than one that doesn't. I have seen pics of browns that were still pretty dark at 4-5 years old, but they were from long lines of browns with no silver/blues in their background. 

One thing you can do, check your pups coat near the skin, especially on the front of the legs and around the muzzle as he gets a little older. If their are light/silvery hairs then the pup will clear sooner and be lighter. 

Irregardless, if you like the looks of mom and dad, if you love your pup for who he is, then the color will not bother you in the end. That is the one thing I both love and hate about the poodle. You never have the "same" dog for all its life..lol. But, you also can't tell 100% how much your dog will clear. 

You say that he is a "std male pup", so I am assuming he is going to be your stud dog. IF you were looking for a brown that would keep its color for as long as possible for specific color breeding purposes, then you would need to check the pedigrees and get one from a person who breeds for browns that keep their color best. 

I also have to say, just because the other pup is a bit darker brown in color now, does not mean he will stay dark all that much longer. Of course, if I were looking at a litter of browns and wanted to get the best chance of a brown that would stay brown, I would take the darkest one. Still, with poodles, if I was looking for color breeding, I would check the color heritage in the pedigree, go to a breeder that is known to produce the color I am looking for, and look at mom and dad to see if they are what I want. 

I have a brown female pup that is 6 months old right now. She was out of a brown male and black female. Right now she is still a dark brown, right down to her skin, but I am waiting to see if she begins to lighten when she starts getting her adult coat... she very well may, only time will tell...  But I love her regardless. This is her... Angel, pic taken a couple days ago.







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## Mandycasey'smom (Jan 3, 2009)

This is Casey at 14 months he is getting grey hairs on his bum and some showing in his back as well. He was the darkest one in his litter.


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## littlemj (Apr 21, 2009)

Thanks for the info, the grandmother of the pup is listed as a "Blue" and the great-grandmother as an Apricot, but all the rest on father and mother's side are either brown or black. Do you think the pup will fade to a silver or a silver beige or just be a light brown? What's the difference between a cafe au lait and a silver beige? Thanks for educating me on this. We will love him, what ever color he is. I'm just hoping he does not become silver. Is that at all possible? All the pups in the litter are brown, black and I know one that looks like it maybe a blue.


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## littlemj (Apr 21, 2009)

Another question. Can some pups of the same litter have or not have the fading gene? In other words, can possibly the dark brown pup in the litter not fade and another pup in the litter fade?
Thanks again


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

Silver comes from black not brown, so no he won't be silver. A pup who is going to be silver would be almost black with a grey face. <<<<< The darker dog in my avatar is a silver puppy.

I honestly don't know the difference between silver beige and Cafe au' lait, only that they are lighter verions of brown. Somebody else will have to take that one. 
The fading is what stoped us from getting the brown puppy we were looking at a couple of months ago when we got our baby. LoL, He KNEW I would just have to have a silver before I was happy so he outsmarted me and got a silver from another breeder.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

littlemj said:


> Another question. Can some pups of the same litter have or not have the fading gene? In other words, can possibly the dark brown pup in the litter not fade and another pup in the litter fade?
> Thanks again



Yes if both parents are Dd , Dd 25% chance of a puppy having the fading Gene. They have test out to see what colors poodles carry and if the have the fading gene.

I have read I an heared from different people that the Browns from europe don't fade like the american lines do ( you would have to find out which bloodline keeps the color) 

My mentor has a 13 year old red poodle that is still the same color as she was when she was born ( slight fade due to age). You also have to take in consideration that poodles hair will turn colors due to age. I also read the bitches that are nurserying or in welp will fade because of hormones.


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

When we rescued Teddy he was brown but a real dark brown and not much red highlights - then a year later he was so light that I can't even call him brown anymore he is like a silver beige. Parts of him -his back are totally silver - almost white. wierd but I think he is prettier now lol this comparison is from last year - he's lighter still now.


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