# Nerves. Anxiety. At a loss.



## Dechi

I have a severely anxious dog, Merlin. He is a 3 year old toy poodle. I didn't raise him, so I suspect he was neglected during he critical phase.

Such severely anxious dogs need medications (not just supplements). You can have him evaluated by a vet behaviorist, or at least start with asking your vet for proper medication. There is no dog specific anxiety medication, so vets have adapted human medication dosage for dogs.

Your dog clearly has separation anxiety. My dog has been diagnosed as having an anxiety disorder, and he also has separation anxiety. He is currently on medication but has gotten worse when his little dog mate died. We have a new conpanion for him and the separation anxiety is improving. Anxious dogs need a strict routine. They need to know how their days are going to be spent, and what is coming next, as much as possible. The unknown is a source of fear. Stick to the same schedule everyday.

Here is Merlin's story if you want to read it. 2 years later, he is doing better and sometimes he almost seems normal. I figure in a few years he'll be even better.

http://www.poodleforum.com/23-general-training-obedience/221154-complete-disaster.html

Hang in there, it gets better. It can take a while to find the right meds, and it takes a few months before they take effect.


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## Asta's Mom

Poor guy, I'd was going to suggest, like Dechi, that this may be a case where anti-anxiety medication could help. You and your boy are in my prayers.


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## MollyMuiMa

Before giving anti-anxiety meds, have a full thyroid panel done..... thyroid can affect a dog in many ways, including personality and temperment. Especially hyperthyroidism which can cause general nervousness and anxiety. Good luck!

Two excellent videos on Thyroid disease by Dr Dodds

https://youtu.be/d_BgAshtJnk

I can't link the other one but it is on Youtube also and is called "Dr. Becker and Dr. Dodds Discuss Thyroid Disease in Pets"


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## Owns3Poodles

Thanks for your replies.

Our vet wants to try him on clomicalm. 
Has anyone heard over It?

He has had bloodwork done not that long ago because he was sick. 

I just want to help him get over or properly deal with whatever it is that's tormenting him.


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## Dechi

Owns3Poodles said:


> Thanks for your replies.
> 
> Our vet wants to try him on clomicalm.
> Has anyone heard over It?
> 
> He has had bloodwork done not that long ago because he was sick.
> 
> I just want to help him get over or properly deal with whatever it is that's tormenting him.


Yes, Merlin is on it at the moment. You can read it in the thread I posted above. It's a very old molecule and most vets want to start with that. There are newer medications available also. It helps Merlin a bit, enough to make life more enjoyable and bring his anxiety down to a certain level.


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## lily cd re

Our GSD is a noise anxious/phobic dog who reacts to fireworks and thunder. He is otherwise fine, but we give him Rescue Remedy and turn on the TV and let him hang out in the basement when we know noises that raise his anxiety are going to happen. Your boy sounds worse and I agree that checking the thyroid and then consulting a veterinary behaviorist sound in order.

I hope you can work things out for him. He is quite young to be looking at spending his life full of anxiety. Chronic stress has other health consequences.


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## Beautiful Blue

What do you folks think of Cesar Millan's Way...
Before medication I think I would try his recommendations - a slow process, perhaps, but long term results.


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## Dechi

Beautiful Blue said:


> What do you folks think of Cesar Millan's Way...
> Before medication I think I would try his recommendations - a slow process, perhaps, but long term results.


In severe cases, unfortunately, medication is the way to go. These dogs are unable to cope and not so long ago, they would have just been put to sleep.

Unless there's something I missed in Ceasar's way. But I'be watched his show a lot and I've never seen a case as severe as Merlin on his show.


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## lily cd re

I think the big problem with Caesar Milan and Victoria Stillwell and others on TV is that we don't get the real true full picture of their methods. There are lots and lots of outtakes that we never see that are important to understanding the process. In a situation as is the case for the OP and her spoo I would not want to see things inadvertently be made worse. Professional help is in order directly in this case IMO.


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## scooterscout99

My non-spoo is on anti-anxiety and tranquilizer medication after her fears were affecting not only her life, but mine (read Patricia McConnell). She is a foster failure so I know nothing about her early life, let alone brain development that might have been affected in utero (Craig's List is part of her pedigree). After trying solutions from Rescue Remedy and DAP collars to thunder shirts and chinese botanicals (and a month during which I didn't sleep through the night due to her fearful reactions) I asked the vet about anti-anxiety meds. I am accepting of mental illness treated by pharmaceuticals in humans but felt that I should be able to "figure out" how to deal with my dog's ills in some natural manner.

The turning point was running into a training friend with a dog similarly tormented . . . noises, flashing lights, any precursor to a storm, even if it never rains. She had turned to anti-anxiety medication that returned her dog's quality of life. When I approached my vet with the idea, and specific drug, she had her own recommendation based on her experience. What we are using is a tranquilizer, Trazodone, an anti-anxiety med, Alprazolam. It is not a 100% solution but is night and day from my dog's previous life. She is alert, able to fully participate in training and performance trials, yet less suceptible to the fear triggers.

A trainer mentioned Sileo, something that I didn't try. I still regret waiting so long to move in this direction. Friends who suffer anxiety attacks perhaps can only truly understand how my dog was feeling. I wonder about the stress on all of her systems due to her fears.

Best of luck with your decision.


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## Owns3Poodles

I did read your posts about Merlin. This is exactly why I came here. I knew someone or a few people would understand what I am going through.

I've been getting some heck from my family because lately I am babying him a little but I can't help it. I have anxiety disorder so if he feels anything like how I feel... that breaks my heart... and he can't even tell me. 

Sometimes I think he has some form of PTSD. Maybe that sounds crazy but it was after that walk on Canada Day he changed.

I started him on the clomicalm this morning. I'll give it some time and continue to work with him. I also got a recommendation from the vet for a behaviour specialist but he's quite the distance so will do some research on individuals in my city and surrounding areas.

I'm thankful that the anxiety (as far as I know) is not a 24/7 thing. Him being attached to me is though.

I'll keep an update on this post on anything new that comes our way.

We go back to the vet this first week of Sept for a checkup. 

Thanks again everyone.

If anyone can thing of recommendations...
Websites... books... etc... feel free.

Also... would a thunder shirt for his walks be something to look into? His anxiety is really high during walks.


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## lily cd re

I am glad you bit the bullet and started on meds. I don't think there is any reason to view his anxiety as different from yours and if you are willing to take medication then it follows that giving him something makes sense, right? I do think dogs can experience trauma that can lead to PTSD or something similar. I tried a thundershirt and only got minor benefit from it for our GSD, but that doesn't mean it might not be worth trying with your boy.


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## Beautiful Blue

Owns3Poodles said:


> I did read your posts about Merlin. This is exactly why I came here. I knew someone or a few people would understand what I am going through.
> 
> I've been getting some heck from my family because lately I am babying him a little but I can't help it. I have anxiety disorder so if he feels anything like how I feel... that breaks my heart... and he can't even tell me.
> 
> Sometimes I think he has some form of PTSD. Maybe that sounds crazy but it was after that walk on Canada Day he changed.
> 
> I started him on the clomicalm this morning. I'll give it some time and continue to work with him. I also got a recommendation from the vet for a behaviour specialist but he's quite the distance so will do some research on individuals in my city and surrounding areas.
> 
> I'm thankful that the anxiety (as far as I know) is not a 24/7 thing. Him being attached to me is though.
> 
> I'll keep an update on this post on anything new that comes our way.
> 
> We go back to the vet this first week of Sept for a checkup.
> 
> Thanks again everyone.
> 
> If anyone can thing of recommendations...
> Websites... books... etc... feel free.
> 
> Also... would a thunder shirt for his walks be something to look into? His anxiety is really high during walks.


I have to speak up... because I agree with your family that you may be habituating the behavior. 

I have had pretty happy, well adjusted dogs, but Rio WAS skittish, and yes, fearful, of many things when I first got him in a re-homing situation. Men. Strangers. Sudden noises. The environment was new, the people and noises were new. I have no idea how spooked he may have been in different circumstances at his former home.

Nothing like what you are talking about, and nothing like the others here have described. Let me make that clear. And no medications were needed in this situation. But I did read the chapter in the book (at the public Library) about fearful dogs in Cesar Millans' book. And I took the "be the confident leader to instill confidence" to heart. A little at a time...over time...building confidence in him.

Just as you would a person who needs Exposure Therapy and a Trusted Friend or Therapist to get used to fearful scenarios. And slowly build a new response to the stimulus.

I just want to throw this in here, so that possibly the Rx and some changed behavior on your part can work together to help your dog. 

Sure hope so.

Here's an online discussion similar to the book contents that I read:
https://www.cesarsway.com/cesar-millan/cesars-blog/what-to-do-about-a-fearful-dog


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## Dechi

Owns3Poodles said:


> I did read your posts about Merlin. This is exactly why I came here. I knew someone or a few people would understand what I am going through.
> 
> I've been getting some heck from my family because lately I am babying him a little but I can't help it. I have anxiety disorder so if he feels anything like how I feel... that breaks my heart... and he can't even tell me.
> 
> Sometimes I think he has some form of PTSD. Maybe that sounds crazy but it was after that walk on Canada Day he changed.
> 
> I started him on the clomicalm this morning. I'll give it some time and continue to work with him. I also got a recommendation from the vet for a behaviour specialist but he's quite the distance so will do some research on individuals in my city and surrounding areas.
> 
> I'm thankful that the anxiety (as far as I know) is not a 24/7 thing. Him being attached to me is though.
> 
> I'll keep an update on this post on anything new that comes our way.
> 
> We go back to the vet this first week of Sept for a checkup.
> 
> Thanks again everyone.
> 
> If anyone can thing of recommendations...
> Websites... books... etc... feel free.
> 
> Also... would a thunder shirt for his walks be something to look into? His anxiety is really high during walks.


I have GAD myself, so I know what you mean. Don't pity him though, you'll only make it worse. For me, when my anxiety is really high, I become very irritable and he senses it, so his anxiety becomes worse, then mine also, as a reaction to his, and we keep feeding each other like that. On these days, I need a break from him. I will take care of him, pet him a bit, feed him of course but he can't be on my lap. Just too much for me to handle.

Be aware that your own anxiety is feeding him, and vice-versa. And try to break the never ending circle. 

There is a really great blog about a dog with severe anxiety. I'll try to find it for you. I think it's in my thread somewhere but there are so many pages, it's hard to find.

Don't expect Clomicalm to have any effect before at least 10 days, possible 15-20.


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## lily cd re

I agree about our emotions and our dog's emotional state interacting with each other. I used to come home worried/anxious about what kinds of nutty things Lily would have managed to do. She would go crazy when I walked through the door. She bit holes in my clothes. It was awful. We had a big love/hate thing going on until I decided I couldn't deal with it and got out of my truck in my driveway and went for a walk down the block and back while doing some calming breathing. When I walked through the door calm internally as well as externally (which I had always faked) I was greeted calmly! It was a minor miracle and good for both of us.


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## Owns3Poodles

I don't want anyone to think when I say I baby him that I am doing so when he is having a bad time that I baby him during those moments. I know that's the last thing I should be doing.

I just speak to him like he's human almost or like he can understand exactly what I'm saying.

I do my best to not try and get bent out of shape when he is experiencing something that would make him anxious.
During the weekends of fireworks, as much as I wanted to just hold him and save him, I put the fan on, some calming music and let him lay in my bed since that's what I was doing. 

I do know for sure my bad days effect him. I had a HORRIBLE day a few days ago and he was just relentless that day. 

I'll continue doing my best with him. Will continue with the medication, do my research and maintain open communication with our vet.


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## Beautiful Blue

Just wondering...are your other 2 poodles standards also? Does your anxious boy like to play and interact with them? Are they younger, older, how do they treat him?


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## Owns3Poodles

The other two dogs in the home is an 11 year old Standard Poodle and a 6 year old toy poodle. They are both female. 

He's great with them... 

The oldest doesn't do much in the house with him but the two of them outside... they would play ball for hours together if I let them.
The toy poodle just does her own thing.


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## Beautiful Blue

Owns3Poodles said:


> I'll continue doing my best with him. Will continue with the medication, do my research and maintain open communication with our vet.



I hope after you have let the Rx work for a couple of weeks as Dechi advised, and done whatever else can be done, 

that you will get back to us about how he's doing. Is there such a thing as a dog "going through a phase"? as we might say of kids and adolescents?


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## Owns3Poodles

I'm not going anywhere! . Will continue to stay on this forum and share. Not just about this but about my pups in general.

Kind of nervous about this weekend being the long weekend and with the possibility of fireworks.
He heard one last night and bolted inside. His tail didn't stay down and I was able to get him back out in under 10 minutes. So that is good.


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## Madeleine

Stella has become like this since we lost Carley. I put her in her crate with music on when I leave for work ect. Even if other people are home she pants and paces looking for me , so my husband just crates her until I return.


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## Owns3Poodles

Madeleine said:


> Stella has become like this since we lost Carley. I put her in her crate with music on when I leave for work ect. Even if other people are home she pants and paces looking for me , so my husband just crates her until I return.


I know his crate has helped him.

By the way. Your dogs are beautiful.


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