# Im having potty problems with my toy poodle and don't know what to do anymore.. please help!



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Welcome! 

I would go back to basics and treat your poodle like a puppy for a while. This is a great guide if you follow it carefully:



https://www.dogstardaily.com/files/downloads/AFTER_You_Get_Your_Puppy.pdf



While there's no changing what's been done, dogs are resilient and thrive on routine and understanding what's expected of them.

You just need to do your part by letting go of ideas like "revenge soiling." Anxiety can manifest in inappropriate pottying. As can inadequate exercise and mental stimulation. Some dogs need activity to properly empty their bladder and bowels. Others confuse the soft texture of pads with other fabrics around the house. Or maybe he doesn't like going on pads that have already been soiled. There could be a number of things going on and it's not helpful to ascribe human motivations to dogs. It'll just make things worse for you both.

Are you working with a trainer? A rescue situation like this can challenge even experienced dog owners and could really benefit from someone savvy with positive reinforcement methods. I'd consider reaching out for some local help if you haven't already.

Please do also share a photo or two and tell us your little guy's name.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Welcome!
> 
> I would go back to basics and treat your poodle like a puppy for a while. This is a great guide if you follow it carefully:
> 
> ...


Hello! Thank you for replying, I greatly appreciate your help. His name is Monday, I'll have a picture attached below. He is a lovely dog whom I love very much and wish I had him when he was first born. It didn't help that I was a first-time owner and found so many things that I did wrong/didn't do throughout the years. Unfortunately, I've tried online trainers but no one in person. It seems very hard to find trainers that would help me with potty pads as they are the most convenient for us. I have been wondering about getting him some grass pads but have been feeling conflicted about how I would go about cleaning them. Do you happen to have any advice on that?


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Cute little guy! Hopefully we can figure out some tips that will help. Does he like to mark outdoors? Many males will not fully empty their bladders unless they are taken for a bit of a walk. Mine pees about 10 times before he's starting to run empty. If he is a marker, that could be some of your problem. Not necessarily because he's marking indoors, but he could be peeing because he never really fully empties his bladder.


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

I highly recommend using belly bands. I find this brand, JoyDaog, has a better fit and quality than others. The best fit ones come in a 3-pack and made of blue jean material, here.

Rinse out by hand with a little soap as needed, and since all of them attach using Velcro, so do NOT put in the dryer, and they last forever.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Cute little guy! Hopefully we can figure out some tips that will help. Does he like to mark outdoors? Many males will not fully empty their bladders unless they are taken for a bit of a walk. Mine pees about 10 times before he's starting to run empty. If he is a marker, that could be some of your problem. Not necessarily because he's marking indoors, but he could be peeing because he never really fully empties his bladder.


He LOVES marking outdoors. Do you think that problem also translates to pads though?


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Vita said:


> I highly recommend using belly bands. I find this brand, JoyDaog, has a better fit and quality than others. The best fit ones come in a 3-pack and made of blue jean material, here.
> 
> Rinse out by hand with a little soap as needed, and since all of them attach using Velcro, so do NOT put in the dryer, and they last forever.


Hello, thank you for your reply. I'm glad to have come across these products for future reference but I was also looking for more long term solutions to his problems


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

zzz said:


> He LOVES marking outdoors. Do you think that problem also translates to pads though?


Well it's just speculation here, but I know mine will avoid peeing in our yard because he prefers to pee out on a walk. And I always walk him until he's run out of pee even if it's just a quick potty walk. Mine can easily hold his pee for 12-15 hours if he wants to. I've actually never seen him "need to pee" since he gained bladder control at 6 months old. It's more of a fun recreational activity for him. I know potty pads can seem convenient, but you might see significant improvement if you can just take him on at least one good length walk to the point where his bladder is clearly running on empty. It's also nice for them to have some time out for mental stimulation. Mine empties his bladder within 10 minutes, though I try to give him a lot more than that because he has loads of energy. I don't know about where you live, but we're still fine to walk dogs here. In fact I think the dogs are getting way more walks than normal because people are so bored. People just stay 6 ft from eachother. If you can, my advice would be to try taking him out on a 15-20 minute walk twice a day, and see if that helps. It may take some time, and it may be easier after corona.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Well it's just speculation here, but I know mine will avoid peeing in our yard because he prefers to pee out on a walk. And I always walk him until he's run out of pee even if it's just a quick potty walk. Mine can easily hold his pee for 12-15 hours if he wants to. I've actually never seen him "need to pee" since he gained bladder control at 6 months old. It's more of a fun recreational activity for him. I know potty pads can seem convenient, but you might see significant improvement if you can just take him on at least one good length walk to the point where his bladder is clearly running on empty. It's also nice for them to have some time out for mental stimulation. Mine empties his bladder within 10 minutes, though I try to give him a lot more than that because he has loads of energy. I don't know about where you live, but we're still fine to walk dogs here. In fact I think the dogs are getting way more walks than normal because people are so bored. People just stay 6 ft from eachother. If you can, my advice would be to try taking him out on a 15-20 minute walk twice a day, and see if that helps. It may take some time, and it may be easier after corona.


thank you for your advice! I'll see about walking him more throughout the day, I suspect he might be stressed out because of staying home all day too. I would have loved to get him off his pads but I know that once school starts again, I won't be having as much time as he deserves.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Like all dogs who were raised in less than perfect conditions, to your dog, soiling inside is imprinted in his brain. And now that he’s been doing it for 2 years, it’s become a habit.

The fact that you have him on pipi pads is certainly adding to the confusion. And since you’re not home to correct the behavior, it will not go away on it’s own. Dogs that had a bad start need very disciplined actions from their owners and a lot of time and patience. But it can be done. My male toy was doing his business in a crate and marking in the house for 16 months before I got him. It took me about 1 1/2 years to make him reliable but today he is very very good. My female toy had a weak bladder and she was also very hard to train. I’ve had multitude of hard to train dogs, all small, but I’ve always succeeded and so can you.

Here’s what I would do. Get rid of all pipi pads and thoroughly clean the house with a mixture of vinegar/water (no bleach) or a commercial product if you prefer (the vinegar mixture works fine). Before, male sure to get half a dozen belly bands, they will be essential to your training.

Make sure you start on the week-end or when you are home, to correct any behavior. Start a routine for going outside, about 4 times a day. Don’t walk him to potty if you don’t want to have to do this for the rest of your life. I make my dogs go potty before walking them. After he’s done his business, put the belly band on him and leave it on. Only take the belly band off at night, and only if you can watch him. 

A small dog can hold it just as long as a bigger one. If you work very long hours, have someone let him out once mid-day.

Since the behavior has been going on for a very long time, expect this whole process to last about 1 year. Maybe more, maybe a little less. This means wearing belly bands for the whole year. After six months without accident, you can start taking the belly band off a little at a time. Always be aware he might revert back, so test him before you allow more liberty.

It can be done and it will work, but it will take time. You can’t change an old habit in 3 weeks.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

zzz said:


> Hello! Thank you for replying, I greatly appreciate your help. His name is Monday, I'll have a picture attached below. He is a lovely dog whom I love very much and wish I had him when he was first born. It didn't help that I was a first-time owner and found so many things that I did wrong/didn't do throughout the years. Unfortunately, I've tried online trainers but no one in person. It seems very hard to find trainers that would help me with potty pads as they are the most convenient for us. I have been wondering about getting him some grass pads but have been feeling conflicted about how I would go about cleaning them. Do you happen to have any advice on that?
> View attachment 465564


He's so cute!

A good trainer can help you diagnose the problem and can also help you work on some of your other concerns, like the barking. But reading that book I linked for you would be an excellent start. It addresses indoor pottying during long-term confinement.

Assuming Monday's physical and mental needs are being met, a return to basics could be all he needs.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Dechi said:


> Like all dogs who were raised in less than perfect conditions, to your dog, soiling inside is imprinted in his brain. And now that he’s been doing it for 2 years, it’s become a habit.
> 
> The fact that you have him on pipi pads is certainly adding to the confusion. And since you’re not home to correct the behavior, it will not go away on it’s own. Dogs that had a bad start need very disciplined actions from their owners and a lot of time and patience. But it can be done. My male toy was doing his business in a crate and marking in the house for 16 months before I got him. It took me about 1 1/2 years to make him reliable but today he is very very good. My female toy had a weak bladder and she was also very hard to train. I’ve had multitude of hard to train dogs, all small, but I’ve always succeeded and so can you.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for that input! How do the belly bands work? How often do you wash them and how many at hand should I have? he can wear them all day (except when he walks? so thats 4 changes a day?) and are they good for both number 1 and 2? I know that's a lot of questions but I'm pretty new them, sorry haha. And how do I measure accidents after 6 months if he has been wearing the belly bands? what is the procedure for when he is left alone?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

zzz said:


> Thank you so much for that input! How do the belly bands work? How often do you wash them and how many at hand should I have? he can wear them all day (except when he walks? so thats 4 changes a day?) and are they good for both number 1 and 2? I know that's a lot of questions but I'm pretty new them, sorry haha. And how do I measure accidents after 6 months if he has been wearing the belly bands? what is the procedure for when he is left alone?


You’re welcome. The best belly bands are the ones with a velcro on, so you just wrap it around the waist, making sure it sits over the penis. My dog never, ever peed in his belly band, and he wore them for more than a year. I guess it felt unnatural. And if he does pee, he will feel wet and uncomfortable so I suppose he will learn fast not to do it. I don’t know if other dogs pee in them but mine never did. Washing once a week is good then.

Your dog can wear them when you’re gone and pretty much all day, except at night I would give a break (but crate him or make him sleep with you so you can watch) and when he is outside. Check often, especially at first. He should have no visible marks or redness, even after wearing it all day.

Don’t buy too many until you’ve found the model that fits well on tour dog. I would say start with a pack of 3 or 6. If he doesn’t pee in them it will be more than enough. My favorites looked like these PETSWEARE Male Dog Diaper - Reusable and Washable - Soft & Comfortable - A Set of 3 PCS (Medium, Scottish, Black, Grey): Amazon.ca: Pet Supplies

As for accidents, as I said in my previous post, after a few months of controlling him and having 100% success rate, you will start testing him by allowing short periods without the belly band, but only when you can watch him closely. Start with 20 minutes, then very slowly increase. Do it at different moments of the day, but always after he has emptied his bladder. Set him up for success, not failure. After he has proven to be reliable on those tests for months (I like 6 months), then you can take the belly bands off. This should be about 1 year away. Make sure he is ready, because if he has even one accident, he goes back on the belly bands and you start over.

To my knowledge there are no anti-poop bands. But this is a lot easier to fix than urinating. Just feed once a day snd take the dog out at regular hours.

To help you achieve success, it is best to pair the belly band approach to a good housebreaking program. Treat him as if he was a puppy. I think other members gave you links for that. If not, there are many posts about it on the forum. It’s a new start, with a tool to help you.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Dechi said:


> You’re welcome. The best belly bands are the ones with a velcro on, so you just wrap it around the waist, making sure it sits over the penis. My dog never, ever peed in his belly band, and he wore them for more than a year. I guess it felt unnatural. And if he does pee, he will feel wet and uncomfortable so I suppose he will learn fast not to do it. I don’t know if other dogs pee in them but mine never did. Washing once a week is good then.
> 
> Your dog can wear them when you’re gone and pretty much all day, except at night I would give a break (but crate him or make him sleep with you so you can watch) and when he is outside. Check often, especially at first. He should have no visible marks or redness, even after wearing it all day.
> 
> ...


I have ordered the bands now. I'm concerned with how this will play out once I'm away for long hours again but I'm willing to try something different! As for the vinegar mix you mentioned, how many parts water and vinegar did you find to be effective? Thank you so much thus far


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

zzz said:


> I have ordered the bands now. I'm concerned with how this will play out once I'm away for long hours again but I'm willing to try something different! As for the vinegar mix you mentioned, how many parts water and vinegar did you find to be effective? Thank you so much thus far


How many hours are you typically away for? It's quite likely that he will be perfectly fine without a potty break.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

zzz said:


> As for the vinegar mix you mentioned, how many parts water and vinegar did you find to be effective? Thank you so much thus far


I always did it approximately but I looked online and they say 1 part vinegar with 1 part water. So half and half.

Gwt him used to the belly bands before you start leaving him alone, so he knows that when you take them off, it’s time to pee. Once he’s done this association, it will be easier for him. It’s important that he associations belly bands = no pee but he also needs to trust that you are coming back to let him relieve himself.

The first thing you do when you come back home : take him outside then take off the belly band and let him relieve himself. Do not take the belly band off inside, as he might just relieve himself on the spot, in the house.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

zzz said:


> I have ordered the bands now.


You probably did but just in case, make sure you bought the right size for your boy. I think mine was wearing small, but they should have a sizing chart to help you choose.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> How many hours are you typically away for? It's quite likely that he will be perfectly fine without a potty break.


I leave the house around 8 and family comes home around 4-6pm


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Dechi said:


> You probably did but just in case, make sure you bought the right size for your boy. I think mine was wearing small, but they should have a sizing chart to help you choose.


Hello! I bought a size small for my toy poodle. I hope it fits right. It'll be arriving Monday so I've started the new potty program already


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

zzz said:


> Hello! I bought a size small for my toy poodle. I hope it fits right. It'll be arriving Monday so I've started the new potty program already


Please let us know how it goes. We’re rooting for you !


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

zzz said:


> I leave the house around 8 and family comes home around 4-6pm


My bet is your dog won't need a potty break during that time. Most dogs mostly sleep when their owners are gone. 8-10 hours is typically fine for an adult dog. Especially if you can manage to take him out for a 15 min walk before you have to go. My mother is a professional pet sitter. Most people with adult dogs have her come twice a day, so that's 12 hours between visits or maybe more depending on how it's timed.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> My bet is your dog won't need a potty break during that time. Most dogs mostly sleep when their owners are gone. 8-10 hours is typically fine for an adult dog. Especially if you can manage to take him out for a 15 min walk before you have to go. My mother is a professional pet sitter. Most people with adult dogs have her come twice a day, so that's 12 hours between visits or maybe more depending on how it's timed.


Hello, thank you for your insight. This is a bit off-topic but do you happen to have any advice for dogs that hate getting picked up and become aggressive?


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

zzz said:


> Hello, thank you for your insight. This is a bit off-topic but do you happen to have any advice for dogs that hate getting picked up and become aggressive?


Unfortunately I don't have much experience with this. I have heard other forum members talk about dogs like this, so hopefully somebody else can chime in. I believe it has to do with developing trust between you and your dog, and being respectful while slowly acclimating them to new things.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

zzz said:


> Hello, thank you for your insight. This is a bit off-topic but do you happen to have any advice for dogs that hate getting picked up and become aggressive?


Really depends on why it's happening, (is the dog in pain?), (and what's happening! Is it a growl, a bite, or just unhappy body language), but I'll go based on my suspicion based on what I've seen with other small dogs (and previous dogs my family has had) - the dog may be being picked up without warning, feel like it's unable to get down if it's uncomfortable, and feel swarmed with attention. If it's another reason (resource guarding or something) you can ignore what I've written. 

My number one recommendation would be to only pick the dog up with it's permission. I frequently pick up my 50 lb standard, but I always warn her "Ready? Up!" in a happy voice before I do. I do the same with my motherr's yorkie. It gives them a chance to prepare for being picked up, and either indicate "I want to be picked up now" (turning towards you, lifting a bit, making it easy to pick up) or not (pulling away). Sometimes the dogs do actually move away - and I respect that, and don't pick them up. Other times, she is obviously asking to be picked up, and I oblige. 

Try to minimize how often you hold the dog, and watch for signs the dog isn't comfortable, and wants down. Preferably, put it down before it wants down, so it's left wanting more (or at least, it isn't an unpleasant experience). Basically - if the experience is pleasurable/unstressful, and the dog feels like it has agency, it will be much more comfortable with the process. 

Also, if it's a "dog's personal space" issue, there are many youtube videos about how to tell if your dog is enjoying being pet/dog body language, and they are really helpful. If the dog is enjoying it/wants more, they will lean in, turn towards you, and if you stop, they will try and re-engage. I like to stop and check every 10s or so, just so the dog has to "work" for petting, and to recheck if she's happy with it, or is just tolerating it. 

If you can/if it's safe, I'd suggest practicing not picking up your dog for a few days. Then, warn with your new cue, pick up, immediately put down, praise, treat. The next day (not the same day) try it again. Do every day or two until the dog seems to understand and appreciate the cue, then you can work on duration, always making sure to respect body language and put down if they ask.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I agree with FWoP - many toy dogs get grumpy through being treated just like toys. Not all get disgruntled enough to actually growl or snap, but most show their dislike of being swooped on and swept up. I have taught all of mine a "May I pick you up?" cue, and other than in an emergency accept their decision. I am very particular about who picks them up too - children are asked to sit on the ground and let the dog come to them, which is safer for everyone. 

I would only add one thing to FWoP's excellent advice, and that is to do the practice lifting while sitting on the floor. That way you are only lifting your dog a few inches onto your lap, and the stress involved is much less. Once that has become a happy game yo can move on to a chair, and eventually while standing - by then you will be able to read body language really well, to.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Really depends on why it's happening, (is the dog in pain?), (and what's happening! Is it a growl, a bite, or just unhappy body language), but I'll go based on my suspicion based on what I've seen with other small dogs (and previous dogs my family has had) - the dog may be being picked up without warning, feel like it's unable to get down if it's uncomfortable, and feel swarmed with attention. If it's another reason (resource guarding or something) you can ignore what I've written.
> 
> My number one recommendation would be to only pick the dog up with it's permission. I frequently pick up my 50 lb standard, but I always warn her "Ready? Up!" in a happy voice before I do. I do the same with my motherr's yorkie. It gives them a chance to prepare for being picked up, and either indicate "I want to be picked up now" (turning towards you, lifting a bit, making it easy to pick up) or not (pulling away). Sometimes the dogs do actually move away - and I respect that, and don't pick them up. Other times, she is obviously asking to be picked up, and I oblige.
> 
> ...


Hi! thank you for your response. I believe my dog suffers from resource guarding and space guarding. It's weird because he only wants to be picked up on his own terms. If you attempt to pick him up or ask to pick him up (or if he senses you're about to pick him up), he can be very aggressive and will try to make you go away. Also, god forbid if he has a yummy treat he's chewing on and you try to get near him. He will lung at you like he thinks you're going to steal it from him :/


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

fjm said:


> I agree with FWoP - many toy dogs get grumpy through being treated just like toys. Not all get disgruntled enough to actually growl or snap, but most show their dislike of being swooped on and swept up. I have taught all of mine a "May I pick you up?" cue, and other than in an emergency accept their decision. I am very particular about who picks them up too - children are asked to sit on the ground and let the dog come to them, which is safer for everyone.
> 
> I would only add one thing to FWoP's excellent advice, and that is to do the practice lifting while sitting on the floor. That way you are only lifting your dog a few inches onto your lap, and the stress involved is much less. Once that has become a happy game yo can move on to a chair, and eventually while standing - by then you will be able to read body language really well, to.


I responded above that I think my dog has resource guarding issues :/ any advice youd have for me then?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Resource guarding is a whole other problem. Have you searched for it on here? There have been several long and detailed discussions. The main thing is never to push it to confrontation - always offer something better in exchange and then whenever possible return the original treasure as well. Do you know your dog's background? It sounds as if there are a number of behavioural issues there to overcome.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

fjm said:


> Resource guarding is a whole other problem. Have you searched for it on here? There have been several long and detailed discussions. The main thing is never to push it to confrontation - always offer something better in exchange and then whenever possible return the original treasure as well. Do you know your dog's background? It sounds as if there are a number of behavioural issues there to overcome.


I don’t know much as far as resource guarding with his background  I’ll take a look around here. Thank you


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Dechi said:


> I always did it approximately but I looked online and they say 1 part vinegar with 1 part water. So half and half.
> 
> Gwt him used to the belly bands before you start leaving him alone, so he knows that when you take them off, it’s time to pee. Once he’s done this association, it will be easier for him. It’s important that he associations belly bands = no pee but he also needs to trust that you are coming back to let him relieve himself.
> 
> The first thing you do when you come back home : take him outside then take off the belly band and let him relieve himself. Do not take the belly band off inside, as he might just relieve himself on the spot, in the house.


Hi, I wanted some advice based on some new updates. I’ve been taking him out to poop and pee 4 times a day and trying to get him used to a decent eating schedule. He still doesn’t poop at a certain timeframe given the disparity in the times he eats. Unfortunately I left my room a few minutes ago to use the bathroom and came back to him having peed and pooped on my room carpet despite having peed and pooped around 12 am before bed. He didn’t poop all day before then no matter how long I’d wait on him. So what can I do to make sure that doesn’t happen again especially when I’m asleep?  it seems as though he waited until I was away to do it. Shouldn’t he have been able to hold it until his early morning walk? I’m not sure how to stop it from happening again or how to keep him eating at a similar timeframe


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Have you had a chance to explore the Dr. Ian Dunbar link I gave you? I can't stress enough that it seems you really need a return to basics with this dog. Getting advice in bits and pieces is not the same as following an expert methodology. It can do more harm than good.

I recommend you work on this foundation (ideally with the assistance of a well-regarded trainer) and then provide us with updates. 

Keep in mind: This is not going to be a short-term fix. Imagine how much a puppy learns in the first year of his life when his brain is still a little sponge. Your little guy needs to learn those things now, and it's going to take a lot of patience and consistency. 

You will never achieve that consistency following the advice of a variety of people online, as good as our intentions may be. But we're here to support you and cheer you on!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would definitely read the Ian Dunbar book, and stick to his suggested puppy training process, for both the toilet training and other things. It rather sounds as if he has learned not to toilet when you are watching - always a potential problem if you show your annoyance or punish a dog for doing it where you don't want it to.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Have you had a chance to explore the Dr. Ian Dunbar link I gave you? I can't stress enough that it seems you really need a return to basics with this dog. Getting advice in bits and pieces is not the same as following an expert methodology. It can do more harm than good.
> 
> I recommend you work on this foundation (ideally with the assistance of a well-regarded trainer) and then provide us with updates.
> 
> ...


I did follow his advice on mistakes not to make and the three simple steps + taking him out 4 times a day and using belly bands. I’ll try going back and seeing what else he had to say 😞


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Have you had a chance to explore the Dr. Ian Dunbar link I gave you? I can't stress enough that it seems you really need a return to basics with this dog. Getting advice in bits and pieces is not the same as following an expert methodology. It can do more harm than good.
> 
> I recommend you work on this foundation (ideally with the assistance of a well-regarded trainer) and then provide us with updates.
> 
> ...


Ok just to make some clarifications- I see his point for taking my dog out every hour on the hour. Some of the things I couldn’t find him clarify are 1) what happens during bed time and 2) how do I slowly reduce that 1 hour over time/when is the time to slowly reduce the 1 hour. Would you or anyone happen to have any clarifications on that bit? Thank you so much for your help !


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

A puppy usually needs to go out at least once during the night - an older dog should be able to hold it for longer, but if he has not practiced doing so it may take a while to get there. I would work on the assumption that if he wakes up he will need to go out, and that he will certainly need to go out immediately he wakes up in the morning. The key thing about taking him out every hour is to reward him for toileting outside, and manage it so that he never does it inside - that way you build up an ever more solid base for him to want to go out to toilet. It is a shift of thinking patterns - mess indoors is down to you missing his signals (which may be extremely subtle) or not taking him out often enough, and not his fault. Toileting outdoors is treat and game and party time! You are learning to read him, and he is learning that it is worth managing to hold on until he is outside - eventually he will learn to tell you when he needs to go. You will both make mistakes along the way, but patience and perseverance will get you there. Remember you are dealing with habits of many, many months - you are not going to turn them around in just a few days.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

zzz said:


> Unfortunately I left my room a few minutes ago to use the bathroom and came back to him having peed and pooped on my room carpet despite having peed and pooped around 12 am before bed. He didn’t poop all day before then no matter how long I’d wait on him. So what can I do to make sure that doesn’t happen again especially when I’m asleep?  it seems as though he waited until I was away to do it. Shouldn’t he have been able to hold it until his early morning walk? I’m not sure how to stop it from happening again or how to keep him eating at a similar timeframe


That mistake is yours. I haven’t specified everything that needs to be done but I’ll give a little more info now. Since your dog has not been trained properly and he has been soiling the house for years, you can’t expect him to hold it. He doesn’t know he should. To him, pottying in the house is how it’s done. So he will hold it until he can find a way to do it.

It takes a lot of will and patience to break this habit, but there is one fool proof method : never, ever give him the chance to soil the house. Every accident is your fault for not following through. Not his.

He needs to be wearing belly bands at all times and be kept in a crate with enough space to sit and turn around (no more, or he will soil one end and lie on the other end) or tethered to you on a leash when you can’t watch him. That means if you take a shower, he goes in the crate. If you go to the washroom, or eat at the table, he needs to be leashed to you. At night, if he can’t be trusted (some dogs sleep on beds and don’t soil), he needs to be in a crate. Some dogs will soil the bedding in the crate, so watch out for that, if he does, then no bedding until he knows better (this will take months and months, and maybe it will never happen). This dog has been trained to go inside, so now it has to be unlearned.

You can’t expect him to understand what you want until he has been going outside to relieve himself for a few months without accidents. Take him outside as soon as he wakes up, after eating, after playing and after eating, just like you would a puppy. Then, give a command that he will learn like « go potty ». Say it often and If he goes, say it while he is going. Then praise like he won the Nobel prize and immediately take him inside so he understands that the sooner he pees or poops, the sooner we go in the house (or go for a walk).


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

zzz said:


> I did follow his advice on mistakes not to make and the three simple steps + taking him out 4 times a day and using belly bands. I’ll try going back and seeing what else he had to say 😞


I think there's been some confusion. I linked to a book by Ian Dunar called _*After Getting Your Puppy*. _He definitely doesn't advocate the use of belly bands for potty training.

But whatever method you try, it could take weeks or even months.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

And Dechi's giving wondering advice, but it opens a whole new can of worms: Crate training. Another process that cannot and should not be done overnight.

But it's covered in Dunbar's book. So be sure to read it cover to cover before making any changes. Let it sink in and then make a game plan.  Good luck!


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Dechi said:


> That mistake is yours. I haven’t specified everything that needs to be done but I’ll give a little more info now. Since your dog has not been trained properly and he has been soiling the house for years, you can’t expect him to hold it. He doesn’t know he should. To him, pottying in the house is how it’s done. So he will hold it until he can find a way to do it.
> 
> It takes a lot of will and patience to break this habit, but there is one fool proof method : never, ever give him the chance to soil the house. Every accident is your fault for not following through. Not his.
> 
> ...


He used to be a little weary of his crate so I’m slowly conditioning him to being okay With it now. So far so good. I was thinking of taking him out every hour for a little while and then slowly reducing it to 4. Wearing his belly band for the first time today. I think it makes him a little depressed but I haven’t seen him try to take it off. I genuinely appreciate all the help I’m getting on this forum, thank you so much you and everybody else for your support. I’ll update you periodically ❤


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> And Dechi's giving wondering advice, but it opens a whole new can of worms: Crate training. Another process that cannot and should not be done overnight.
> 
> But it's covered in Dunbar's book. So be sure to read it cover to cover before making any changes. Let it sink in and then make a game plan.  Good luck!


Yes he can be a little weary of his crate so I’m trying to put him in there around 10-20 minutes at a time with some pet music running in the background. He can handle that much so far without getting really sad


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I think there's been some confusion. I linked to a book by Ian Dunar called _*After Getting Your Puppy*. _He definitely doesn't advocate the use of belly bands for potty training.
> 
> But whatever method you try, it could take weeks or even months.


I’m trying the belly bands per some advice here from some people. I thought of just tying it together to the overall method described in the book?


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

I think belly bands are fine, and hopefully they will help. Originally when I read your post, it sounded like this was an occasional problem, but now it seems like he is really averse to pottying outside. I second the ideas that he needs to be treated like a puppy since he doesn't really seem to have an idea of what's expected. It will be a long journey for you and him and I wish you luck.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

zzz said:


> I’m trying the belly bands per some advice here from some people. I thought of just tying it together to the overall method described in the book?


Ahhhh. Gotcha. Well I do hope that works for you. Just remember: Baby steps. He's like a puppy, but with better bladder and bowel control. So although his current habits are deeply ingrained, he does have the added benefit of a fully matured body. He'll get it if you're consistent and kind.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Ahhhh. Gotcha. Well I do hope that works for you. Just remember: Baby steps. He's like a puppy, but with better bladder and bowel control. So although his current habits are deeply ingrained, he does have the added benefit of a fully matured body. He'll get it if you're consistent and kind.


I was just really surprised because he had never done that before In my room even before we started the potty program this week. But thank you everybody! For now he’s nicely chilling in his crate 🥰


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Crate training. Another process that cannot and should not be done overnight.


I didn’t ask ZZZ but I was hoping her dog was crate trained already. To ZZZ, this sure is a lot to tackle at the same time. And it can easily become confusing too because some methods overlap.

Come often to tell us how it is going so we can steer you. Don’t worry, he won’t get depressed because of belly bands. Nor the crate. It’s all for the better, he needs a little order in his life and it will slowly happen, with the right tools.

One day at a time.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Dechi said:


> I didn’t ask ZZZ but I was hoping her dog was crate trained already. To ZZZ, this sure is a lot to tackle at the same time. And it can easily become confusing too because some methods overlap.
> 
> Come often to tell us how it is going so we can steer you. Don’t worry, he won’t get depressed because of belly bands. Nor the crate. It’s all for the better, he needs a little order in his life and it will slowly happen, with the right tools.
> 
> One day at a time.


Hello! here to give some updates. First day of bellybands and going out every hour. He pees but doesn't poop. At least did not poop all day. I hope that changes soon  He spends around 30m in his crate and wants out so I'm introducing it little by little. Wants his dinner around 9 pm. My current concern is his pooping pattern.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Dechi has given you great advise so I really don't have anything much to add. I had a chihuahua that I took in from a local shelter. He came from a hoarding situation of 88 dogs. He lived his first 4-5 years in a wood pen in a barn and was petrified by the human touch. He would poop anytime you picked him up. This is what I did with him. I put a small variety kennel into a large open. The kennel had a bed and the door was kept open. I kept him in my kitchen which was the busiest room in our home. I often went by and spoke softly to him and I followed the protocol of what Dechi has said by taking him out every hour. I fed him 2x a day at the same time every day in the big pen area closer to his crate. He would not eat at first as he was too scared but if I walked away he would, so his food would be put down but taken away after 30 minutes if he didn't eat. Now I had another chihuahua at the time too, so each time I took him out to potty there were times I took both out but the scared guy was always on a harness and leash. After awhile I would walk them both around the block together. After about a week he never had an accident in "his area" bed and pen. He learned very quickly not to soil his area. After I had him about a month he pulled out of his harness when he got frightened on our walk. I thought for sure he was a goner. When I got back to the house, there he was cuddled into a corner by the door we came out of. I new then it would all be ok. Now I had him 12 years before he passed. As long as I took him out to potty he was fine in the house but I always need to be vigilant with him. For the most part he never potted in the house, in fact the morning he passed away he woke me earlier than normal, he ran outside to potty then in his bed. And that is where he passed. He had congestive heart failure . It was quite some time in the beginning as he learned to trust us and he learned that he liked to live in a "clean" area, where he always got fed and had clean water. It will take some time but you will get there. Oh and when I was not present he always went into his area . I would have liked him to have free run of the house always but I think after having lived in a box for such a long time he was just comfortable in his spot though he enjoyed interaction whenever someone was present. Good luck and I hope you keep us all posted.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

zzz said:


> He spends around 30m in his crate and wants out so I'm introducing it little by little. Wants his dinner around 9 pm. My current concern is his pooping pattern.


One rule to follow with the crate is to never let him out if he whines, or scratches. He needs to settle in the crate, and YOU decide when he comes out, and only when he hasn’t whined or fussed for 5 minutes. Try to find a method on line if you need one.

Is dinner at 9pm his only meal ? In any case, eating at 9 pm is too late. He should eat early so he will have time to have a bowel movement if need be before going to bed, and not in the middle of the night.

As for not pooping, give him time. If he hasn’t in 48 hours, give him more fibers to help him. Like pumpkin puree or other. Keep it up, and make sure to say the command word when he goes, and to PRAISE, PRAISE, PRAISE !

Try to determine the best routine for meals, outside trips, bedtime, ect. Routine is so important because it will bring him to pee/poop at the same time everyday, which makes housebreaking so much easier. It might take 3-4 weeks for his bowel movements to start to coincide with the routine.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Mufar42 said:


> Dechi has given you great advise so I really don't have anything much to add. I had a chihuahua that I took in from a local shelter. He came from a hoarding situation of 88 dogs. He lived his first 4-5 years in a wood pen in a barn and was petrified by the human touch. He would poop anytime you picked him up. This is what I did with him. I put a small variety kennel into a large open. The kennel had a bed and the door was kept open. I kept him in my kitchen which was the busiest room in our home. I often went by and spoke softly to him and I followed the protocol of what Dechi has said by taking him out every hour. I fed him 2x a day at the same time every day in the big pen area closer to his crate. He would not eat at first as he was too scared but if I walked away he would, so his food would be put down but taken away after 30 minutes if he didn't eat. Now I had another chihuahua at the time too, so each time I took him out to potty there were times I took both out but the scared guy was always on a harness and leash. After awhile I would walk them both around the block together. After about a week he never had an accident in "his area" bed and pen. He learned very quickly not to soil his area. After I had him about a month he pulled out of his harness when he got frightened on our walk. I thought for sure he was a goner. When I got back to the house, there he was cuddled into a corner by the door we came out of. I new then it would all be ok. Now I had him 12 years before he passed. As long as I took him out to potty he was fine in the house but I always need to be vigilant with him. For the most part he never potted in the house, in fact the morning he passed away he woke me earlier than normal, he ran outside to potty then in his bed. And that is where he passed. He had congestive heart failure . It was quite some time in the beginning as he learned to trust us and he learned that he liked to live in a "clean" area, where he always got fed and had clean water. It will take some time but you will get there. Oh and when I was not present he always went into his area . I would have liked him to have free run of the house always but I think after having lived in a box for such a long time he was just comfortable in his spot though he enjoyed interaction whenever someone was present. Good luck and I hope you keep us all posted.


That’s a beautiful story! Thank you for sharing. You suggested that you always had to be vigilant with him, as in suggesting being on time/on a routine right?


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Dechi said:


> One rule to follow with the crate is to never let him out if he whines, or scratches. He needs to settle in the crate, and YOU decide when he comes out, and only when he hasn’t whined or fussed for 5 minutes. Try to find a method on line if you need one.
> 
> Is dinner at 9pm his only meal ? In any case, eating at 9 pm is too late. He should eat early so he will have time to have a bowel movement if need be before going to bed, and not in the middle of the night.
> 
> ...


Hello! Some updates here! Right now he’s having one meal a day at 6 pm. But he doesn’t poop until the morning. I don’t know why but he doesn’t poop any other time of the day so far. I leave him in his crate more often now but I still don’t think he could stand being in there for too long. It’s been 2 days only but so far he’s at a eat at 6 and poop in the morning schedule. I suppose I should increase that to 2 times eating per day? I wonder how that’s going to affect his pooping schedule


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

A thought on him being reluctant to eliminate in front of you. It sounds is to me like someone punished for peeing/pooping inside, and he misunderstood the lesson. Now he thinks that peeing/pooping anywhere a human can see him do it will get him in trouble. Inside, outside, doesn't matter- just wait until the human isn't watching.

About food, I prefer to feed dogs twice a day. The little guys need to keep their blood sugar up. The big spoos, like my Pogo, are prone to bloat. I feel safer giving them smaller meals.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

zzz said:


> It’s been 2 days only but so far he’s at a eat at 6 and poop in the morning schedule. I suppose I should increase that to 2 times eating per day? I wonder how that’s going to affect his pooping schedule


Most dogs will go twice a day or more but I’ve seen dogs only go once. In his case, I think he’s just adjusting to the new routine and it will increase. 

As for meals, I’ve had lots of small dogs on 1 meal per day when I was working, because I didn’t want them to have to go while I was at work. Even a 4 pound chihuahua and she was fine. It really depends on the dog and your routine. 

Make sure he has good health and if need be, give him two meals, but make sure to give him enough time in the morning for him to have to go. For example, get out of bed, go outside. Go back inside and feed. Wait 20-30 minutes, let him back outside again, then leave for work. Even if you’re not working right now, male up a permanent routine that will stay the same or very similar when you start working again.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

zzz said:


> That’s a beautiful story! Thank you for sharing. You suggested that you always had to be vigilant with him, as in suggesting being on time/on a routine right?


Yes, all my dogs are fed on a schedule, Ours is 6 AM and 4 PM. First thing in the morning they go outside to potty come in and eat, then about an hour later (they are adults now) they go out again.. Usually potty each time. Then they go out again around noon-1, and again after they eat dinner, so about 4:30-5. Then one more time before bed. We go to bed early so its about 8:30. I also had to stay vigilant about him being free in the house. For the most part he never messed in the house but he would if I just left him on his own so I always had to crate h I'm when I wasn't present.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

One thing all my dogs have needed is a double morning potty. Out first thing after waking and then a second time about an hour later.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> One thing all my dogs have needed is a double morning potty. Out first thing after waking and then a second time about an hour later.


Hello, as of now he potties once in the morning and that’s all for the day. But he is also fed only at 6 pm. I do want to give him food in the morning but I hope he’s actually going to want to potty again that soon before I’d leave the house


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Dechi said:


> Most dogs will go twice a day or more but I’ve seen dogs only go once. In his case, I think he’s just adjusting to the new routine and it will increase.
> 
> As for meals, I’ve had lots of small dogs on 1 meal per day when I was working, because I didn’t want them to have to go while I was at work. Even a 4 pound chihuahua and she was fine. It really depends on the dog and your routine.
> 
> Make sure he has good health and if need be, give him two meals, but make sure to give him enough time in the morning for him to have to go. For example, get out of bed, go outside. Go back inside and feed. Wait 20-30 minutes, let him back outside again, then leave for work. Even if you’re not working right now, male up a permanent routine that will stay the same or very similar when you start working again.


I gave him food this morning after he went out once and took him out again an hour later to which nothing happened. Just now around 2 pm I let go of his leash for one minute to get food and I found him on his pads pooping. I had just taken him out 10 minutes earlier and he had refused to poop then/too distracted by the neighbor mowing the lawn. This shows he still thinks pooping inside is okay where he used to and refuses to poop outside  my only glimmer of hope is him pooping regularly in the mornings


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

zzz said:


> I gave him food this morning after he went out once and took him out again an hour later to which nothing happened. Just now around 2 pm I let go of his leash for one minute to get food and I found him on his pads pooping. I had just taken him out 10 minutes earlier and he had refused to poop then/too distracted by the neighbor mowing the lawn. This shows he still thinks pooping inside is okay where he used to and refuses to poop outside  my only glimmer of hope is him pooping regularly in the mornings


This process will take weeks, maybe months. You shouldn't be feeling discouraged. Follow the plan you've laid out based on the method you've chosen. Be consistent. Be patient.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

zzz said:


> Just now around 2 pm I let go of his leash for one minute to get food and I found him on his pads pooping. I had just taken him out 10 minutes earlier and he had refused to poop then/too distracted by the neighbor mowing the lawn. This shows he still thinks pooping inside is okay where he used to and refuses to poop outside


I’m confused. Why does he have a pee pad inside if you’re trying to stop him from going inside ? 

There shouldn’t be any pee pads in the house at this point. Not since you started training him a few days ago. Also sure make sure to keep him with you at all times, or this will continue forever. It’s happened a few times now, so now he is starting to be trained to wait for the opportunity to relieve himself. This is creating a new problem on top of the rest.

You can’t expect him to change his habits if you send confusing signals. He is used to going inside, that’s what he wants and likes, so why would he not do it if he can ?


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Dechi said:


> I’m confused. Why does he have a pee pad inside if you’re trying to stop him from going inside ?
> 
> There shouldn’t be any pee pads in the house at this point. Not since you started training him a few days ago. Also sure make sure to keep him with you at all times, or this will continue forever. It’s happened a few times now, so now he is starting to be trained to wait for the opportunity to relieve himself. This is creating a new problem on top of the rest.
> 
> You can’t expect him to change his habits if you send confusing signals. He is used to going inside, that’s what he wants and likes, so why would he not do it if he can ?


I haven't had a chance to properly clean his previous room as he is with me in my room at all times. I guess I'm having a hard time keeping an eye on him 100% of the time while doing other things too as I'm pretty much doing this alone and he hates being in his crate for too long  I'll restrict access to his pads if anything so he couldn't go there anymore until I can properly clean the place. His crate is giving me a hard time and I'm relatively overwhelmed


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

zzz said:


> I haven't had a chance to properly clean his previous room as he is with me in my room at all times. I guess I'm having a hard time keeping an eye on him 100% of the time while doing other things too as I'm pretty much doing this alone and he hates being in his crate for too long  I'll restrict access to his pads if anything so he couldn't go there anymore until I can properly clean the place. His crate is giving me a hard time and I'm relatively overwhelmed


I understand. But do what’s necessary or all your efforts will be in vain. Cleaning should have been done first, because he can still smell his scent. And that’s where he wants to go and all the training in the world won’t work because of it. Dogs have a very, very strong sense of smell. Even if you close the door, he smells it perfectly.

I’ve raised all my adults dogs and puppies alone. In fact, it is much easier to do it alone, as the rules are always the same and things always done the same way. You can do this. Start from the start and it will work.

As for not leaving your dog alone, just tie a six foot leash to your waist and you won’t have to worry about accidents. Or, if you’re working at a desk, or washing dishes or whatever, just tie the leash to a chair, table or anything close by. Put his bed down (only if he doesn’t pee on his bed, if he does then he’ll stay on the floor) and make sure the leash is short enough to prevent him for peeing away from where he is. This is what I did and it works very well.

Housebreaking takes a lot of time and commitment, but it is very rewarding.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Dechi said:


> I understand. But do what’s necessary or all your efforts will be in vain. Cleaning should have been done first, because he can still smell his scent. And that’s where he wants to go and all the training in the world won’t work because of it. Dogs have a very, very strong sense of smell. Even if you close the door, he smells it perfectly.
> 
> I’ve raised all my adults dogs and puppies alone. In fact, it is much easier to do it alone, as the rules are always the same and things always done the same way. You can do this. Start from the start and it will work.
> 
> ...


I’ve started feeding him a second time after taking him out in the morning. His poop schedule is basically out of control. He refuses to poop in the morning despite having had dinner over 12 hours ago and randomly feels like doing it at like 2 pm. Took him out twice already today and both times refused to poop. It seems as though he goes out of his way to first sniff all of the backyard and then still refuse to poop no matter what happens


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

zzz said:


> He refuses to poop in the morning despite having had dinner over 12 hours ago and randomly feels like doing it at like 2 pm. Took him out twice already today and both times refused to poop. It seems as though he goes out of his way to first sniff all of the backyard and then still refuse to poop no matter what happens


Don’t stress over it. The more you do, the less your dog will be receptive to training. The bowel movements will takes a few weeks to become regular. In the meantime, just have fun when you take him outside and let him go at his own rythmn. 

If he becomes constipated, give him pumpkin puree, that’s the only thing you can control. For everything else, make sure he can’t have accidents in the house and let go.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I'm still convinced someone has inadvertently taught him that it's not ok to poop when a human is nearby. For the short term, maybe try bringing a long piece of parachute cord on your outings, so you can let him get further away and go behind a bush for privacy while still keeping him safely tethered.
For the long term, try building his confidence using clicker training. (There are lots of videos and books on how to do it. Just google clicker or marker training. ) You can use a loud ball point pen to make the clicks if you can't get a real clicker. 
For the first two weeks or so, work on establishing the sound of the click as a signal that he has done something that pleased you, and he will be rewarded. You can practice commands he already knows, like sit. The idea is to build in him the rock solid conviction the sound of a click means he did the right thing and good things will follow.
Once he believes in the goodness of the click, start taking your clicker on your outings. Click when you see him starting to squat. It may startle him, so he stops squatting, but reward him anyway. Click and reward every time he squats outside. Eventually, with enough repetitions, you should be able to retrain him to poop outside. And at least you will be starting this project in warm weather!


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

cowpony said:


> I'm still convinced someone has inadvertently taught him that it's not ok to poop when a human is nearby. For the short term, maybe try bringing a long piece of parachute cord on your outings, so you can let him get further away and go behind a bush for privacy while still keeping him safely tethered.
> For the long term, try building his confidence using clicker training. (There are lots of videos and books on how to do it. Just google clicker or marker training. ) You can use a loud ball point pen to make the clicks if you can't get a real clicker.
> For the first two weeks or so, work on establishing the sound of the click as a signal that he has done something that pleased you, and he will be rewarded. You can practice commands he already knows, like sit. The idea is to build in him the rock solid conviction the sound of a click means he did the right thing and good things will follow.
> Once he believes in the goodness of the click, start taking your clicker on your outings. Click when you see him starting to squat. It may startle him, so he stops squatting, but reward him anyway. Click and reward every time he squats outside. Eventually, with enough repetitions, you should be able to retrain him to poop outside. And at least you will be starting this project in warm weather!


I have the clicker at home but never got the chance to start training him with it. I’ll try now in between walks, thank you for your advice 🙏🏻


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Dechi said:


> Don’t stress over it. The more you do, the less your dog will be receptive to training. The bowel movements will takes a few weeks to become regular. In the meantime, just have fun when you take him outside and let him go at his own rythmn.
> 
> If he becomes constipated, give him pumpkin puree, that’s the only thing you can control. For everything else, make sure he can’t have accidents in the house and let go.


Hi, it’s been a few days. No [bad] updates until now 😔 I take him with me everywhere and that included the kitchen. I literally had his leash by an arms reach. I turn around for 1 second to get food and I see him crouching to poop. I exclaimed “Monday no!” And kind of pulled on his leash else where hoping he would stop. But he just continued crouching down there instead. I finally picked him up and carried him outside to do something but all he did was stare at me. He was visibly scared when i brought him back and didn’t want to go to the kitchen again. This was again right after he had been outside. Like minutes before. He hadn’t pooped all day. I’m just so overwhelmed.. I don’t know what I’m supposed to do if he doesn’t stop when I catch him and keeps going.. it’s making looking after him feel so pointless. I’m just really disheartened. He’s good for a week or 2 and then has accidents again. I don’t know why he keeps holding his poop some days and poops twice other days. I’m too paranoid to even sleep anymore. I’m visibly shaken rn as my comment shows.. any help is appreciated


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I'm sorry you're feeling so overwhelmed. I know it can feel like a big job, but potty training has just a handful of essential rules, and one of them is not scolding your dog for having an accident. Why did you feel like you needed to scold him? This is intensifying his fear of pottying in your presence, which is counterproductive.

What led up to the indoor pooping incident? If you detail his schedule until then we can help you troubleshoot.

But you're going to need to take some deep breaths and remind yourself you're starting from scratch with this little guy. I know it's hard, but he needs your patience while he learns.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I'm sorry you're feeling so overwhelmed. I know it can feel like a big job, but potty training has just a handful of essential rules, and one of them is not scolding your dog for having an accident. Why did you feel like you needed to scold him? This is intensifying his fear of pottying in your presence, which is counterproductive.
> 
> What led up to the indoor pooping incident? If you detail his schedule until then we can help you troubleshoot.
> 
> But you're going to need to take some deep breaths and remind yourself you're starting from scratch with this little guy. I know it's hard, but he needs your patience while he learns.


I wasn’t trying to scold him. I honestly was just trying to stop him momentarily so I could take him outside, hence why I exclaimed “Monday, no!” and tried to grab his leash to go. But no matter what I would do, he would continue to squat down to poop. I’m not sure how else to react to him next time.. 
right now I’m feeding him at 8 am once he has his morning walk and once at 6 pm. He finishes his bowl of around 1 cup each completely. I take him out every 1-2 hours besides when we sleep. He doesn’t stay in his crate for longer than 5-10 minutes, much less a whole night. I can’t really sleep well anymore because I feel as though he’s definitely not reluctant to poop even with me around.
Some days he poops twice (once morning and once 4-6 pm. Some days even as late as 10 pm) and some days he doesn’t poop at all. He definitely associates potty with relieving himself as he has no problems peeing And loves getting rewarded for it. I just don’t know whats the problem with his pooping anymore as he poops in the yard when he wants to and definitely didn’t mind pooping right in front of my eyes.
His lack of crate training is proving to be an obstacle as he is even too reluctant to go inside there for his meals. I’m just disheartened because I had always read that catching them in the act is supposed to help the training as they will stop and you can show them where to go. But now I’m not even sure what I’m supposed to do the next time I catch him and he goes ahead anyway 😔


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Is he getting exercise? Dogs commonly need activity to prompt a bowel movement, and if they don't get it, the timing can be unpredictable and the movements more urgent.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Is he getting exercise? Dogs commonly need activity to prompt a bowel movement, and if they don't get it, the timing can be unpredictable and the movements more urgent.


I can try running around with him in the yard.. it’s not really safe to walk him around town anymore here because of Corona. So I take him to our backyard :/ I guess he has been confusing me in the sense that he sometimes poops post exercise and other times he’s happy to go on his own. But I have to make sure he poops at least in the morning now if not anything else..


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Re-read Ian Dunbar's potty chapter. Physically tick off each element if you have to, to ensure you're covering all your bases. Just keep consistent and patient. 

It's not easy to change habits, nor is it always easy to communicate our expectations to a dog. Give it a solid month and make note of every bit of positive progress, even if it's minor and even if it feels like two steps forward, one step back.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Actually I feel you did it correct saying No outside and taking him immediately outdoors to finish his poo, even if he didn't. He will get the idea thats its not ok to poop in the house. Its going to take time. I agree that he has been taught to go in the house and that is going to be really difficult to change. You have come to the forum for advise less than 3 weeks ago and its going to take time. Personally I would probably put a small crate with a bed in it, inside a large pen. Then I would put the pads down on opposite side of where crate/food/water bowl is. And just let it be. Let him relax and get used to it. However I would take him outside to his potty area and try to get him to potty. Its not the worst thing in the world to have puppy pads down for a toy sized dog. Once he established a potty routine, things will improve. When you leave him out leave a pad down, near the potty area of open and one by back door. He he uses it, take the used pad outside to the area you want him to go in. You may be replacing it with used one every day. One day he may get the idea. But meanwhile you won't be driving yourself to exhaustion. He is not a puppy so some of the puppy interactions are harder for him since he has already been taught and it seems to have been taught very well. Even my little rescue I told you about, it took months before he learned. I always put a pad down in the play area, just in case. After a while he just didn't use them and potted when we walked outdoors to his spot. Even the morning he passed, he woke me and ran outside and pottied, came back jumped into his area and passed about an hour later. Relax and he will too.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

A few things : dogs will not stop pooping when you say no. They just can’t, it’s a physical urge. If you see him crouching, say nothing, pick him up and take him outside where he needs to be. Then praise, praise, praise, in a very excited voice.

Second, if you’re exhausted and overwhelmed, your dog feels it and it will make it very difficult to train him. This needs patience, patience, patience. And lots and lots of time. As I said, the whole process might take 1 year until fully reliable.

Maybe this is too much for you. You need to decide if you will keep trying to housebreak, or let go and put down pee pads that he will use for the rest of his life. You could also take a break for a few weeks until your state of mind is better, read more, rest and relax and try again. You need to sort out where you get your infos, though, and concentrate on reliable ones. Pick one complete method that you like, and stay with it. You can’t pick and choose because you don’t have enough experience and some of the stuff on the internet is very wrong.

As for walking, I don’t know about your area, but it is generally safe to walk your dog outside, as long as you can maintain a safe distance from passers by (at least 6 feet) and nobody touches your dog. Some dogs like to poop on walks, and it might be his case. Once he’s started pooping on walks, and you teach a command, you can make him poop in a designated area.

Another option, not great with this pandemic, is having an experienced dog person housebreak the dog for you. A friend or family where he could stay for a few weeks, 3-4, until he learns the basic and you can follow from there.

You need to decide on your match plan.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Dechi said:


> A few things : dogs will not stop pooping when you say no. They just can’t, it’s a physical urge. If you see him crouching, say nothing, pick him up and take him outside where he needs to be. Then praise, praise, praise, in a very excited voice.
> 
> Second, if you’re exhausted and overwhelmed, your dog feels it and it will make it very difficult to train him. This needs patience, patience, patience. And lots and lots of time. As I said, the whole process might take 1 year until fully reliable.
> 
> ...


I was really overwhelmed because I apparently had the wrong idea about his reaction upon getting caught and thought there’s nothing I can do to stop him. I do suspect he enjoys pooping on walks. Unfortunately I live in a crowded area and mostly my family is super paranoid and doesn’t want me walking long distance away from home. It’s rather becoming a burden. He pooped twice today (morning and post breakfast) but nothing after his dinner despite any running around in the yard, etc. I appreciate your advice as far as what to do when I catch him again, I feel a lot better knowing it’s not as big of a problem as I thought. I’m staying home until end of August so hopefully him and I can make some progress by then 🙏🏻


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Mufar42 said:


> Actually I feel you did it correct saying No outside and taking him immediately outdoors to finish his poo, even if he didn't. He will get the idea thats its not ok to poop in the house. Its going to take time. I agree that he has been taught to go in the house and that is going to be really difficult to change. You have come to the forum for advise less than 3 weeks ago and its going to take time. Personally I would probably put a small crate with a bed in it, inside a large pen. Then I would put the pads down on opposite side of where crate/food/water bowl is. And just let it be. Let him relax and get used to it. However I would take him outside to his potty area and try to get him to potty. Its not the worst thing in the world to have puppy pads down for a toy sized dog. Once he established a potty routine, things will improve. When you leave him out leave a pad down, near the potty area of open and one by back door. He he uses it, take the used pad outside to the area you want him to go in. You may be replacing it with used one every day. One day he may get the idea. But meanwhile you won't be driving yourself to exhaustion. He is not a puppy so some of the puppy interactions are harder for him since he has already been taught and it seems to have been taught very well. Even my little rescue I told you about, it took months before he learned. I always put a pad down in the play area, just in case. After a while he just didn't use them and potted when we walked outdoors to his spot. Even the morning he passed, he woke me and ran outside and pottied, came back jumped into his area and passed about an hour later. Relax and he will too.


Thank you, I have been considering a pen on an easy to clean floor area for once school starts back up again. I appreciate that it worked for you. It makes me feel better about how long this is going to probably take


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Dechi said:


> A few things : dogs will not stop pooping when you say no. They just can’t, it’s a physical urge. If you see him crouching, say nothing, pick him up and take him outside where he needs to be. Then praise, praise, praise, in a very excited voice.
> 
> Second, if you’re exhausted and overwhelmed, your dog feels it and it will make it very difficult to train him. This needs patience, patience, patience. And lots and lots of time. As I said, the whole process might take 1 year until fully reliable.
> 
> ...


Sorry for the double reply! Just needed some quick insight. I left him in his crate to use the bathroom, especially since he hadn’t pooped since dinner and I don’t trust to leave him alone. I came back to him having pooped inside his crate. I can’t tell if that’s due to anxiety or just him really having needed to go. I didn’t show any reactions whatsoever to it and just wondering what I can change with his crate to better the situation a bit


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Some dogs take longer to get a handle on pooping than they do on peeing. My pup was pee trained much earlier than poop trained. I didn't really do anything special to get it to stop. I think he just slowly got more of a handle on the routine. It does sound like your pup is nervous about pooping. He can probably sense your anxiety about it. Relax. You'll get through this. Pick a method that best works for you and stick to it. Give it a few months.

Dogs all have their own habits. Over time you will become more in tune with his usual routine and you will be able to predict his needs more accurately. For example, mine is very specific. He will not poop in our yard. He likes to poop twice a day, out on walks, but only after walking 0.5 to 1.5 blocks, depending which blocks we walk around. And he particularly likes to go by select trees that he has designated poop zones. Running around also will make him need to go. But he really avoids eliminating in our yard, as if he'd rather save that for walks. We're still walking and biking, but maintaining distance.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

zzz said:


> Sorry for the double reply! Just needed some quick insight. I left him in his crate to use the bathroom, especially since he hadn’t pooped since dinner and I don’t trust to leave him alone. I came back to him having pooped inside his crate. I can’t tell if that’s due to anxiety or just him really having needed to go. I didn’t show any reactions whatsoever to it and just wondering what I can change with his crate to better the situation a bit


It’s becoming clear that he is holding it and pooping as soon as you get away from him. If he is doing it in his crate, the crate is too big. It should only be big enough for him to lie down and sit. There should not be enough room to lie in one corner and poop in the other.

On the other hand, I just realize I’m not sure what your goal is. Can you clearly explain what you want to accomplish with the training ? 

I thought you wanted a dog who would do his business outside 100% of the time with no pee pads inside. Is this the case ? If so, no pee pads inside. But if you want your dog to relieve itself sometimes on pee pads, sometimes outside, then yes there will be pee pads inside, but it’s a whole different training approach.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Dechi said:


> It’s becoming clear that he is holding it and pooping as soon as you get away from him. If he is doing it in his crate, the crate is too big. It should only be big enough for him to lie down and sit. There should not be enough room to lie in one corner and poop in the other.
> 
> On the other hand, I just realize I’m not sure what your goal is. Can you clearly explain what you want to accomplish with the training ?
> 
> I thought you wanted a dog who would do his business outside 100% of the time with no pee pads inside. Is this the case ? If so, no pee pads inside. But if you want your dog to relieve itself sometimes on pee pads, sometimes outside, then yes there will be pee pads inside, but it’s a whole different training approach.


I’m putting his bed in there now which virtually makes it impossible for him to try pooping there again. Also feeding him there so he hopefully makes a distinction. I do want a puppy doing his business outside 100% of the time, above I was referring to the pen setup which sounds better than his former puppy proof room.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Dechi said:


> It’s becoming clear that he is holding it and pooping as soon as you get away from him. If he is doing it in his crate, the crate is too big. It should only be big enough for him to lie down and sit. There should not be enough room to lie in one corner and poop in the other.
> 
> On the other hand, I just realize I’m not sure what your goal is. Can you clearly explain what you want to accomplish with the training ?
> 
> I thought you wanted a dog who would do his business outside 100% of the time with no pee pads inside. Is this the case ? If so, no pee pads inside. But if you want your dog to relieve itself sometimes on pee pads, sometimes outside, then yes there will be pee pads inside, but it’s a whole different training approach.


Hello! It’s been a while. It’s been going ok with no accidents. He seems better about his crate and eats on time. A little behavioral change I’ve noticed though is his anxiousness about staying with me all day. Usually I have him with me in my room as I work from home and occasionally I let him cuddle with my parents for an hour or two in the living room (bc I don’t trust them to 100% look after him for more than that) 
Sometimes when I’m hanging him over to my dad, he becomes aggressive and lunges at me barking. I don’t think he would bite but it’s definitely some kind of warning. I think he’s anxious that I’m there to take him away. Did this happen to you or anyone else when you were in the process of potty training? 
I would appreciate any suggestions if so


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

zzz said:


> Sometimes when I’m hanging him over to my dad, he becomes aggressive and lunges at me barking. I don’t think he would bite but it’s definitely some kind of warning. I think he’s anxious that I’m there to take him away. Did this happen to you or anyone else when you were in the process of potty training?
> I would appreciate any suggestions if so


Oh, no, this is absolutely not normal and I don’t think it has anything to do with housebreaking.

But first, let’s address the 1-2 hours with your parents. How do you manage to watch him so he doesn’t have any accidents when he’s not with you ? I’m afraid he is far from reliable and this will only delay his training.

Then the lunging. Definitely a problem and it probably has to do with your energy and attitude towards him. Unless you are inadvertently hurting him. Can you describe when he becomes aggressive ? Is it when you want to bring him back to your room, or when you are handing him to your dad ? Please describe step by step how this happens. If you can, post a video too.

You can’t let this go on or you might have a serious problem on your hands, ie you might get bitten.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

Dechi said:


> Oh, no, this is absolutely not normal and I don’t think it has anything to do with housebreaking.
> 
> But first, let’s address the 1-2 hours with your parents. How do you manage to watch him so he doesn’t have any accidents when he’s not with you ? I’m afraid he is far from reliable and this will only delay his training.
> 
> ...


He has always had issues with resource and space guarding, I’m afraid what I’m perceiving to be anxiety is making it worse. Basically when I’m done giving him over to my dad, he begins by growling while he’s still sitting and then proceeds to get up from where he was sitting on the couch and bark some more. Usually it stops at that and he goes back to where he was before. But tonight, he followed me around and wanted me definitely away from the area. Whenever I would call his name sternly, he would be back near me barking again. 
he does this whenever he sees a new person walk into the room as well. For example, I could be sitting in the kitchen and my brother walks in. He proceeds to bark for a second or two. He has bitten us before when we have tried picking him up against his wishes. I usually only pick him up when he signals me that he’s okay with it.
I’ve always known this is a separate issue to be dealt with, but I think it has definitely not gotten better during this process.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

zzz said:


> He has always had issues with resource and space guarding, I’m afraid what I’m perceiving to be anxiety is making it worse. Basically when I’m done giving him over to my dad, he begins by growling while he’s still sitting and then proceeds to get up from where he was sitting on the couch and bark some more. Usually it stops at that and he goes back to where he was before. But tonight, he followed me around and wanted me definitely away from the area. Whenever I would call his name sternly, he would be back near me barking again.
> he does this whenever he sees a new person walk into the room as well. For example, I could be sitting in the kitchen and my brother walks in. He proceeds to bark for a second or two. He has bitten us before when we have tried picking him up against his wishes. I usually only pick him up when he signals me that he’s okay with it.
> I’ve always known this is a separate issue to be dealt with, but I think it has definitely not gotten better during this process.


This is serious and needs an experienced hand. Get a trainer as soon as possible. You can do video calls. Don’t wait until someone gets seriously hurt.

It is fixable and it won’t take forever, but you need to know what you’re doing and also you want to avoid taking risks.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

You said he was abused by multiple people as a puppy?

At this point, I'd reach out to a reputable trainer or veterinarian in your area, for referrals to a behaviourist. You might be in over your head.

Peggy's had just few resource guarding episodes and I'm already feeling the situation's beyond my skill level.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

(Honestly, cobbling together bits and pieces of well-meaning advice here, even from experienced dog owners, might be making your situation worse. Dogs need consistency, especially anxious dogs. So this also means no one should be handling him right now unless they're dog savvy, and you've suggested your parents aren't.)


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> You said he was abused by multiple people as a puppy?
> 
> At this point, I'd reach out to a reputable trainer or veterinarian in your area, for referrals to a behaviourist. You might be in over your head.
> 
> Peggy's had just few resource guarding episodes and I'm already feeling the situation's beyond my skill level.


Yes it’s definitely not something to take lightly 😔 I hate what they have done to him. And even though he is much better than he was when he first came to us, there are moments where he still snaps. I’m trying to find a reputable trainer that would be willing to tackle this problem over calls. None of the apps I know of right now seem to offer specific training for resource guarding


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> You said he was abused by multiple people as a puppy?
> 
> At this point, I'd reach out to a reputable trainer or veterinarian in your area, for referrals to a behaviourist. You might be in over your head.
> 
> Peggy's had just few resource guarding episodes and I'm already feeling the situation's beyond my skill level.


Actually good point. I should reach out to his vet and ask for some referrals. That seems like a better option


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> (Honestly, cobbling together bits and pieces of well-meaning advice here, even from experienced dog owners, might be making your situation worse. Dogs need consistency, especially anxious dogs. So this also means no one should be handling him right now unless they're dog savvy, and you've suggested your parents aren't.)


Meaning I should probably just keep him in my room all day, huh? 😕 I thought I’d be easing his anxiety by letting him go to the living room where he wants to be but I’m probably making it worse


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

zzz said:


> Yes it’s definitely not something to take lightly 😔 I hate what they have done to him. And even though he is much better than he was when he first came to us, there are moments where he still snaps. I’m trying to find a reputable trainer that would be willing to tackle this problem over calls. None of the apps I know of right now seem to offer specific training for resource guarding


Speaking from my personal experience, I think you definitely need a personalized program, not an app or website. Another possible resource would be your local Humane Society or SPCA. They likely have a behaviourist or trainer on call. Our trainer works closely with our local shelters.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

zzz said:


> Meaning I should probably just keep him in my room all day, huh? 😕 I thought I’d be easing his anxiety by letting him go to the living room where he wants to be but I’m probably making it worse


I'm having trouble wrapping my head around your living situation. I didn't realize there were other people in your home until your most recent update. I'm sorry if I missed that in my initial response.

Maybe he'd actually be better off in the living room. I don't know. I don't know your family and I've not observed his interactions with them. I'm sorry. I wish I had more to offer you.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Speaking from my personal experience, I think you definitely need a personalized program, not an app or website. Another possible resource would be your local Humane Society or SPCA. They likely have a behaviourist or trainer on call. Our trainer works closely with our local shelters.


So I can just call them and ask for a trainer? There aren’t any specific papers/processes to fill out/go through?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

zzz said:


> So I can just call them and ask for a trainer? There aren’t any specific papers/processes to fill out/go through?


I have no idea. Just give them a call and they'll guide you through whatever process they have in place.


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## zzz (Mar 26, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I'm having trouble wrapping my head around your living situation. I didn't realize there were other people in your home until your most recent update. I'm sorry if I missed that in my initial response.
> 
> Maybe he'd actually be better off in the living room. I don't know. I don't know your family and I've not observed his interactions with them. I'm sorry. I wish I had more to offer you.


You’re totally fine, I never really specified. A lot of my problems with Monday stem from my family either not contributing to his training or not being totally dog savvy. That’s why I’ve been having him with me here. You’ve done more than enough to help me so far so thank you so much


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## 2BoyzNow (Apr 27, 2020)

Thanks for posting this question and for all the helpful suggestions and references!! They will be a great help for me too! Good luck zzz! 😩


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