# Study on Raw Diet / Species Appropriate Diet



## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I just opened my latest Dogs Naturally Magazine. It talks about a recent study on raw feeding. Very interesting.... 

Here is the summary article: Raw Proof: New Research On Species-Appropriate Diets

https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.c...oof-new-research-on-species-appropriate-diets


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I just gave that summary a quick reading and I am not compelled. It was a biased study (as are many pet food nutrition studies) where people with a vested interest in the outcome financed the work, developed the protocol, chose the subjects (but included no controls) and chose the reviewers. That is pretty one sided work.


I also find this statement to be utter nonsense. "Some may also suggest that the simple fact that dogs have been on this planet for many thousands of years prior to the existence of processed pet food is proof enough that it is an appropriate food source!" People have been feeding dogs their cooked leftovers for thousands of years, not throwing them chunks of raw meat. Dogs are not the wolves they are derived from. They are not obligate carnivores either.


I know those of you who are devotees of raw feeding will disagree with what I've said above. I don't disagree with you about the concerns regarding commercial kibbles and canned foods that are highly processed. I don't think processed foods are good for anyone (people or dogs), but for some people who are immune compromised I think there are clear risks to raw feeding that are often overlooked. I don't feed commercially prepared foods of any kind to our dogs. Instead I cook human grade foods in a nutritionally complete and calorically adequate diet based on the results of NutriScan testing.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Dogs split from wolves 33,000 years ago. Wolves and dogs share a common ancestor, but they are not the same species. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3590291/ Chimpanzees and humans split from a common ancestor, but we are not the same, either. https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news...st-common-ancestor-of-humans-and-neanderthals

_Canis Lupus Familiaris _ has been eating human leftovers for millennia. Once humans figured out fire, and cooked meat to make it easier to consume, they tossed whatever remained to the dogs. My vet is not convinced dogs still contain the correct gut structures to fully digest and use raw food. We had a long discussion about this a few days ago, actually. 

A species appropriate diet kind of depends on where the dog lives. In a rice culture, dogs ate leftover rice, along with whatever else was leftover, for the past 5,000 years. In a wheat culture, dogs ate leftover bread, along with leftover whatnot, for the past 5000 years. Dogs have eaten cooked leftovers right up until pet food companies figured out how to mass produce kibble.

Raw meat can spread potentially lethal food poisoning from the dog's mouth, to my hand, to my mouth. Campylobacter, Listeria, Salmonella and E coli are not worth the risk to me. That being said, I am very interested in feeding my dog a cooked balanced diet and getting her off of processed food. I could survive on boxed macaroni and powdered cheese, Spam, canned peas, and canned pears. Would this be the best possible daily diet for me? Nope. Then why do I feed my dog processed food every day?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

As far as I can see the study evaluates whether a raw diet, carefully chosen, can be nutritionally complete - not the most contentious issue. I am an agnostic - I occasionally feed my dogs raw meat, although I avoid it if they happen to have any health issues that week; mostly I cook for them; sometimes I give them commercial food and treats. I have a healthy immune system, and so do they - we can cope with occasional challenges. Tripe is always raw, because the smell of green tripe cooking is frankly unbearable! The big difference I see is I think down to the carbohydrate content of the food, not whether it is cooked or raw - when they were on a diet including a lot of rice to try and settle their stomachs in the summer they piled on the ounces, which fell off again as soon as they were back onto meat and vegetables. 

The bigger issue for me is the sustainability of feeding high meat diets, raw or cooked, in the face of galloping climate change. I have over the years cut back considerably on the amount of meat I eat myself, but that doesn't begin to compensate for the 7lbs a week I feed the animals...


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Click than you for providing reference links for my points. Dogs are not wolves! Wolves are not dogs! I also agree with you that I really rather doubt that neolithic humans who just acquired the power of using fire to cook (which often makes nutrients more accessible from food) threw the best chunks of raw meat to their dogs. They got left overs of all sorts.


fjm I agree that the issue of making a nutritionally complete diet is not the heart of the raw food movement although I think it can be an issue for individual owners who may not understand that meat does not provide all required nutrients. I recall reading a Karen Becker piece (I believe) which ranked canine diet choices from high to low with commercial food (nutritionally complete) above any raw or home cooked option that was not nutritionally complete. Your experience with weight gain associated with eating rice shows that grains do provide fuel to produce cellular energy as pups with sicky bellies certainly would not have been having the normal amount of exercise your girls get either so that will be stored as a bit of weight gain.


In my household we both have chronic health issues that make me not want to feed anything raw, but for people who have great health who want to do raw I am not going to tell them not to do so that they shouldn't. The bottom line is adequate nutrients and calories. Doing that properly has to be researched to understand its importance.


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## Moni (May 8, 2018)

Diet such a big issue and I think a wonderful area where you can apply "Live and let live". I think we all try to do what is best for our canines within the means of our comfort zone and budget. As a long time raw feeder I am glad that there is now more support for it - I have had the pleasure of having a dog that was reared raw from raw fed parents and lived it all his life - a huge difference than having to teach how to eat raw to a skittish dog that is almost as grossed out as the owner (lol).
I have had healthy as a horse dogs on cheap kibble (didn't have the knowledge in my early twenties and believed the shiny commercials) have bought the fanciest and most expensive kibble for others - rediscovered my raw roots and now I am back there again enthusiastically - but I know at each step and with each dog I simply tried to do the best I could at that point in time. I have fed picky eaters and gluttons. I have free fed and carefully weighed every ounce of food.
Go with your gut - go with what feels right for you and your dog and enjoy your dog. I think that the dogfoodadvisor site has a lot of great info (they are not infallible either but a good start).


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

fjm climate change informs my diet choices too in trying to eat as low as possible on the food chain as much as possible. In the face of reports like these to do otherwise is essentially immoral and ignores any thought as to the legacy regarding of quality of life that will be possible for future generations.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...9718a256cbd_story.html?utm_term=.706f4c033347


https://www.washingtonpost.com/vide...b0444390c97_video.html?utm_term=.83acc8557149


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## HayleyRS (Dec 9, 2018)

I feed raw and even work at a raw pet food store, and I tend to find a lot of flaws when it comes to raw research. Honestly, it's a lot of pseudoscience and there's a lot of myths out there that grind my gears. I don't care what people feed as long as their dogs do well on it; some dogs do better on raw and some dogs do better on kibble. FWIW, my next dog will probably get a 50/50 kibble and raw diet... likely 80/20 kibble/raw while they're maturing.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

There are risks in raw foods, risks in contaminated kibble, risks in unbalanced cooked foods, really quite frankly, it is about what you are comfortable risking. Just like human diets, there are a lot of controversies with what is the "best" food for people from paleo to the four food group. Go with what you will keep up with.


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