# Calories per day? Primarily for Spoo. Mpoo, Tpoo welcome as well.



## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

How much (in calories) should I feed Elroy (spoo) per day? That is the question. He weighs 58 lbs. and is essentially full grown (21 months next week). He's not overweight because he has been very good at self regulating his food intake. This thread stems out of my other thread of switching from free fed to eating two meals per day. Switching to Feeding 2 times a day from Free feeding
My Rally trainer highly recommended that I switch Elroy to 2 meals per day rather than free feeding with the expectation that Elroy will become more focused on me as the provider of his food. This thread is not about arguing about whether or not this will actually work, I've already decided to try it. There are a couple of other reasons I'm willing to try it. 1) My vet highly recommends is so I can easily tell if he's not acting normal/eating normal. He brings it up at every visit. 2) Elroy doesn't eat when I'm away. I've had to leave him twice for 2 days each, and both times he barely ate anything. I think a feeding schedule should help him to eat when I'm away. 3) I won't have to worry about his food spoiling from sitting out, less waste. That's the background, so here goes.

How big is your dog and how many calories per day do you feed them? Does it come close to the formula below?
(Dog's weight in kg x 30) + 70.
For Elroy this is (26.3 x 30) + 70 = 859kcal.
859 calories per day is 430 calories per meal (at 2 meals per day). This seems somewhat in line with how long a free fed 34 lb bag of kibble lasts him, which is about 9 weeks (63 days). Doing the math; 34 lbs x 454g/lb=15436g/bag.
15436g ÷ 63 days=245g/day
245g x 3.688 kcal/g=904kcal/day.
So my estimate of how many calories he's eating per day is 904, plus treats. I think the bag actually lasts a little longer than 9 weeks so 904kcal/day would err on the high side.
In comparison to the formula above its pretty close (904 vs 859, difference of 45 calories/day)
The bottom line here is that I'm going to start out using 430 kcal per meal to see if I can get him eating on a regular schedule. I will probably adjust this as I learn more. He still gets treats. Some days quite a lot, most days about 100 calories, some days less. I will ask my vet about this in early December when we go in for his kennel cough vaccine.
Long thread, so here's a reminder. *How big is your dog and how many calories per day do you feed them?*


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

Rhonda is not free fed, as I mentioned before. She is 56 pounds and not overweight at one year. She eats when she wants to or when I eat. She eats anywhere from 575 kcal to 960 kcal per day. That equates (according to Purina) to 1.5 to 2.5 cups per day (383 kcal per cup). What I don't have a handle on is the kcal she consumes with treats. She gets some chicken breast and pork jerky treats on a daily basis. With those I figure, roughly, she "averages" about 850 calories per day. So, I think you are in the ballpark. Hopefully, Elroy agrees!


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

Zephyr also eats different amounts per day. I put his full bowl out twice a day, he eats what he wants and when he walks away I put it away until the next meal. Sometimes he skips breakfast, sometimes not; sometimes he eats a full bowl and sometimes he just picks. He is not overweight, self regulates very well. Sometimes he gets raw chicken necks or feet, sometimes he gets leftovers from my meal, he gets training treats daily. I think you just have to go by observing him and if he starts to gain weight cut back.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Thanks for your input. I've been free feeding Elroy since he was 5 months old. He regulates himself _very well_. He's been 58-59 lbs since December 2021. I've been free feeding him 200-215g (almost 2 cups/735-800 kcal s) per serving, meaning after he finishes it, I'll then give him another 200-215g serving. I never really paid enough attention to a given 24 hr period to understand his "daily intake". Nor did I determine the kcal content of the 215g. With me no longer free feeding, the amount I give him is more important.


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

I think it's more important to watch the dog and his condition than how many calories he eats per day. His daily caloric need will change with activity level and other things, what's important is that he maintains weight and condition over time. Feeding two meals does not mean you have to regulate the amount per meal, it just means he gets access to food twice a day instead of all the time.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Bobby is almost 65 pounds and consistently, for most of his adult life, he has eaten/eats around 3 cups of kibble per day( divided into 3 servings) plus small amounts of toppers and treats most days. Each cup of what he is eating now provides 330 calories. They recommend 4.25 cups per day, which seems to be, give it take, average for a lot of brands of quality kibble. Bobby would definitely be overweight if he ate that much. I never have counted calories but now I know about how many Bobby gets!😉 He’s not a super active dog so what he gets is perfect!


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## a2girl (Oct 4, 2020)

As you know, Tom, Hugo is a very oversized mini (19" +/- and about 30 lbs). He eats 1 cup of Blue Buffalo small breed kibble over two feedings. Total calories are 396, which is about 12 calories less than the calculated amount using the formula you posted. He gets maybe 60-70 calories in training treats/dental chew daily. He is not overweight according to his vet but he is not super slender either. He would definitely eat more if I gave it to him!


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

reraven123 said:


> I think it's more important to watch the dog and his condition than how many calories he eats per day. His daily caloric need will change with activity level and other things, what's important is that he maintains weight and condition over time. Feeding two meals does not mean you have to regulate the amount per meal, it just means he gets access to food twice a day instead of all the time.


Yes. This is true, but you do need a starting point.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Spottytoes said:


> Bobby is almost 65 pounds and consistently, for most of his adult life, he has eaten/eats around 3 cups of kibble per day( divided into 3 servings) plus small amounts of toppers and treats most days. Each cup of what he is eating now provides 330 calories. They recommend 4.25 cups per day, which seems to be, give it take, average for a lot of brands of quality kibble. Bobby would definitely be overweight if he ate that much. I never have counted calories but now I know about how many Bobby gets!😉 He’s not a super active dog so what he gets is perfect!


So using the formula:
(29.5kg x 30) + 70 = 955 kcal/day. 
You're feeding 990 kcal. Seems like a pretty reasonable estimater for Bobby. Thanks.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

SteveS55 said:


> Rhonda is not free fed, as I mentioned before. She is 56 pounds and not overweight at one year. She eats when she wants to or when I eat. She eats anywhere from 575 kcal to 960 kcal per day. That equates (according to Purina) to 1.5 to 2.5 cups per day (383 kcal per cup). What I don't have a handle on is the kcal she consumes with treats. She gets some chicken breast and pork jerky treats on a daily basis. With those I figure, roughly, she "averages" about 850 calories per day. So, I think you are in the ballpark. Hopefully, Elroy agrees!


So Rhonda's calculated amount per the formula is:
(25.4kg x 30) + 70 = 832 kcals/day. Right in the ballpark again. Formula keeps looking better with more data!


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## ShamrockPoodle (Jan 22, 2017)

My mini poodles usually have small feedings of wet and dry food total about 1 cup per day spread out over 3 to 4 feedings. I really should total the calories. Toula is at the very top of her height/weight range and Toffee is low to medium for his height and weight range . They eat roughly the same amount but Toffee is super high drive and active whereas Toula is much more calm and gets shorter spurts of activity.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

Raffi is 25 kg and very lean, with that calculation he should get 820kcal.
Don't laugh now, but he normally gets about 1400kcal daily (2 meals). He doesn't get much by way of treats, or at least not regularly. 
Last year he was too skinny so I was feeding him more, about 1800kcal. 
During the summer he tends to eat a bit less and will skip all or part of a meal sometimes, but at this time of year he would happily eat more.
He is otherwise excellently healthy, just has a fast metabolism!


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

I don't even get that many calories per day!


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Annie is 55 lbs and gets around 520 cal from her homecooked food, and 370 cal from 1 cup of kibble. So about 900 cal. She likely gets another 100 cal from treats/bedtime snack kibble, so about 1000 cal/day. Some days her kibble is a scant cup, so a bit less. Some days she gets more, if she's been running a lot. She definitely also needed more prior to her spay. 

She used to eat 3 cups of food per day (about 1200 cal) + treats and was too thin (48 lbs). I can definitely see how Raffi could need 1400 - 1800 cal if he is very active. 

Your calculator says 820 calories for her, which would not be enough.


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## Lilli_123 (Aug 31, 2021)

The formulas I know give much higher values .
For example: Calorie Calculator for Dogs

I also have a spoo, he weighs about 24kg and gets over 1200kcal a day.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Lilli_123 said:


> The formulas I know give much higher values .
> For example: Calorie Calculator for Dogs
> 
> I also have a spoo, he weighs about 24kg and gets over 1200kcal a day.


Yes, I see! Quite a bit different! The spay/neuter question isn't considered in "_my_" formula. Per this formula, Elroy gets 1300 (intact), and 1140 if neutered. Either way significantly more (than 860). 🤔


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## DogtorDoctor (Mar 20, 2020)

Edit: just missed your post as I was writing this, but here is an answer to the discrepancy between the two numbers!

One thing to consider is that the formula is only the resting energy requirement (RER), which provides a baseline for caloric needs based on weight. From there, you need to use a coefficient to calculate the maintenance energy requirement (MER). Here is a website that has a nice explanation. They use a more complicated formula, but the one in your OP works as well. 

Here's the chart for easy access:









I'll use both of my dogs for an example. Cassius is a 57 pound, 5.5 YO, MN doodle with a body condition score (BCS) of 5/9. Jango is a 57 pound, 1.5 YO, MN standard poodle with a BCS of 4/9. Because they weigh the same, their RER is the same at approximately 805 kcal, but their caloric needs are very different. They both eat PPP large breed, which is 408 kcal per cup. If I fed them only two cups a day, they would lose weight pretty quickly.

However, if I use the MER equation for neutered male for Cassius (RER x 1.6), I get about 1,288 kcal. Cassius maintains his weight very well on three cups of food (1,224 kcal) plus treats.

Jango's metabolism is still crazy, despite being neutered months ago. If use the MER equation for active dogs (RER x 2.3), I get 1,851 kcal. I feed him 4.5 cups (1,836 kcal), plus treats and peanut butter kongs.

For both my dogs, I originally underfed them when they got neutered and I was cutting back. I just looked a lot their BCS and then added more food, and they easily adjusted.

All dogs are still individuals, though. Both of my boys were neutered after growth plate closure. My friend owns Cassius's full sibling from the same litter, who is also taller than him. He was a true pediatric neuter at a few months of ago, and his caloric needs are half of Cassius's (1.5 cups of PPP a day). Maybe that's just bad genetic luck ("obese prone", per our chart). Maybe it's related to the pediatric neuter. But because my friend listens to her dog's needs, he is also a healthy BCS on his less caloric diet.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

I can't figure out how to raise (70x10) to the ¾ power, so if I stick to my formula, and use the 1.8 MER formula (intact) I get 860x1.8=1548. Wow! This is way different again. Eventually we'll figure it out. 

@DogtorDoctor Thanks for clarification of my formula being the MER formula. I'd have been starving poor Elroy.


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## DogtorDoctor (Mar 20, 2020)

Both formulas are within just a few calories of each other, so it's definitely close enough!

It can be hard to know what amount to start with when going from free fed to meals, but I would recommend just weighing him once a week or so and making sure you're not seeing any drastic changes.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

I have never "counted calories" for my dogs. If I can feel ribs without there being indentations between them I figure the dog is getting enough. I have used satin balls for picky poodles who are being shown and need a bit more padding. Otherwise they get a quality kibble with some broth over it. They get bits of jerky for training and they get a hard dog biscuit (as in a Milkbone type product) at bedtime.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Well, I just want to say I've played with the formula and Beckie need 236 calories and Merlin 218. Ha Ha Ha !


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

When Kukla went to the vet last month he weighed 3.7kg (he's an oversize toy). I feed him around 300 calories/day. He is an active boy, so he definitely needs more than 181 calories/day, the amount derived using the formula (weight in kg x 30) + 70.


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## Jh poodle joy (7 mo ago)

Teddy in a mpoo, just coming up to his first birthday and neutered 4 weeks ago. He is just touching 6kg, high activity and has needed around 450 calories a day to maintain some coverage on his ribs. He is free fed in sense that he self regulates (we measure how much he has eaten rather than how much to give)but he will take the majority of his daily food when working for it rather than from his plate. So the formula, (kgx30)+70,wouldn't have worked so far, but of course things may change now he is no longer intact.


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