# Does anyone know how to stop Redirected Aggression?



## 2719 (Feb 8, 2011)

That sounds terrible. When we had our rescue Greyhound (Graydie) he was the most laid back boy. But just like you...he would get very aggressive. He raced for 6 years and I think it was his past that made him very alert to small animals. When he was off leash and he spotted a squirrel at the same time one of the poodles did. He would attack the poodle. It was so out of character for him (he never got aggressive around our siamese). But I knew it was because of his background. When the fight would break out I would separate them and put Graydie on the leash. But I never did find a way to stop it..I just was always on the look out for squirrels when he was off leash with the poodles.

There must be something in Stella's past that makes her want to assert her power over poor Carly when she hears certain noises.

Sorry I cannot be of much help, just wanted to let you know I feel for you.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I have since let Stella go to sleep in my office without Carley and hit that same fb post. She is now not doing a thing, it is like once she figures out that this is not a danger she stays calm. I can't leave them together when we are not home. I stay "ON" when we are taking our daily walks ect. I just never know what to be on the look out for. I wish I knew how to fix it. I had one handler tell me to beat the crap out of her, her breeder told me to put her on her back and lay across her and growl. My sister told me I had to start basic training again and have her always watching me... none of those things seem right to me. I can't mistreat her, she is acting out without even thinking about what she is doing. I can't train every minute, we have to have down time. I thought I knew alot about dogs, but this is a hard one.


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## MaryLynn (Sep 8, 2012)

The only thing I know for sure about redirected aggression is that in dog or wolf packs redirected aggression is usually most prevalent (or there are higher instances) when the group is tense. 

It sounds like Carley is a well rounded girl, but she is starting to get nervous of her unpredictable sister. Try and find ways to keep her relaxed and feeling safe, and remember to try and keep your nerves in check too.

I think I would start by working on the excitement and anxiety Stella has. It sounds like when she gets scared or has anxiety (being excited to see other dogs, or seeing prey/a baby cry can definitely cause anxiety even if it looks like Stella is not afraid).

Maybe try an anxiety wrap while you're working on this with her? I am not sure if they really work, but I have seen lots of positive reviews. 

I understand that this is only occasional, but I don't really see how else to approach this.


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## 2719 (Feb 8, 2011)

MaryLynn said:


> Maybe try an anxiety wrap while you're working on this with her? I am not sure if they really work, but I have seen lots of positive reviews.
> 
> I understand that this is only occasional, but I don't really see how else to approach this.


MaryLynn did you mean a thundershirt? I have heard they work well but have no experience with them. Maybe it would help with Stella?

Thundershirt | The Best Dog Anxiety Treatment


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## MaryLynn (Sep 8, 2012)

That's the first of that specific product name I had heard of. I watched a rescue series on dogs just being wrapped for their anxiety. That is a long the lines of what I was referring to though!


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## fearfuldogs (Oct 18, 2012)

You should find a trainer who can help you work with what is likely a fear based response in the younger dog. If the dog is given the skills for dealing with startling events and desensitized and counter conditioned to them the aggression would hopefully decrease. I'd be creating a strong history with different conditioned reinforcers so you can quickly and positively interrupt the dog when she starts to go after the other dog, should you fail to prevent it from occurring to begin with. I try to teach dogs the behavior I want them to perform instead of just thinking about stopping the one I don't like. 

You know that startling events are likely to cause the dog to go after the other dog. That's what you need to start looking for and be prepared to ask the dog to perform an alternate, well rehearsed behavior. You know whether it happens when the dog is on leash or close to the other dog. In the meantime I'd manage the dogs to prevent this from happening again. Keep them separated if you must. It's not a good habit to get into and it's not fair to the older dog.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

So basically, Fearfuldogs beat me to it!

HEAVY, heavy, heavy, heavy counter conditioning and desensitizing, and tiny increments of increased criteria. So break out the big guns. Pure liver, hot dogs, french fries, whatever your Stella likes the most in the world. Novel noises have to be viewed as something WON-DER-FUL. 

Put noises on volume control so they're easily controlled. Work Stella away from Carley. Use a basket muzzle if you need to for your own safety. Of course, condition the muzzle first. Don't just use it for scary noises. 

Start introducing noises VERY quietly and work your way up in intensity and frequency and variance. Try not to put her so over threshold that she's not open to your efforts. 

As an end result, every previously alarming noise should have Stella looking at you for reassurance and a reinforcer. That should become her default behavior. Get into the habit of carrying a treat pouch on you or stashing them throughout the house. When Stella improves, you can move onto secondary reinforcers.

As others have said, also work on increasing her calmness. This sounds like hyper alertness. Like she's on edge and the noises may be pushing her over. I find that massages really help and also capturing calmness really help. Kikopup has a video on capturing calmness. I'm not huge on alternative medicine but as long as you're willing and it doesn't harm, why not? People advocate TTouch, bach flower remedies, DAP collars, etc. Through A Dog's Ear was helpful with Angel.

Also, is she up to date medically? Thyroid and other issues could be causing hyper-sensitivity and reactiveness.

And you are SO right. Beating the crap out of her? Wresting and pinning her? Makes no sense. She already has negative associations to these noises so it just makes so much sense to add MORE negative associations to compound them! Suppression does not cure the cause for the problem behaviors, it only hides the symptoms. Treat the cause and the symptoms clear up. This one of my biggest arguments against force.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Thanks!


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## Specman (Jun 14, 2012)

Carey's Mom,

Here is a link to a website that may help a little. It reinforces was has been said above. 

The Dog Trainer : Redirected Aggression and Barrier Frustration :: Quick and Dirty Tips 


Good Luck!


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## pgr8dnlvr (Aug 7, 2011)

MaryLynn said:


> That's the first of that specific product name I had heard of. I watched a rescue series on dogs just being wrapped for their anxiety. That is a long the lines of what I was referring to though!


Just wanted to say, the method you are referring to is called Tellington touch or T touch method. I have no idea if it's real or works, I just know it exists and a lot of people believe in it...

Good luck with Stella, I'm no expert by far, so I'll just sit back quietly and watch. 

Rebecca


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

pgr8dnlvr said:


> Just wanted to say, the method you are referring to is called Tellington touch or T touch method. I have no idea if it's real or works, I just know it exists and a lot of people believe in it...
> 
> Good luck with Stella, I'm no expert by far, so I'll just sit back quietly and watch.
> 
> Rebecca


Isn't T Touch slightly different from the whole "wrapping" thing (the wrapping thing having the connection to autism?)


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## pgr8dnlvr (Aug 7, 2011)

Well, as I said I don't know a lot about the whole theory and practice, but when I bought a little dress/car seat/handle carrier for Lucy, the inventor of the product explained how it was modeled after the t-touch theory, tightly wrapping the dog at certain pressure points which is why they seem to stay calm when you pick them up by the handle. It was weird how none of the small dogs seemed as nervous or scared when being held even dangling in the air while wearing these harnesses..

Here is a link to show the t-touch wrapping. I just googled "t touch wrap" and this along with many other sites showed up - What is TTouch?

Here are the harnesses I'm talking about...
http://www.facebook.com/#!/itsallaboutmecanine?fref=ts

Rebecca


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## MaryLynn (Sep 8, 2012)

Yep, that is like what I watched.

Like I said, I know next to nothing about it, I think it would probably be best to work with a trainer and train wanted behaviors or tasks during a high anxiety moment, but it seems like a simple enough thing to do as a fail safe while training?

I saw redirected aggression at the dog park, but it was towards the owner not another dog. The owner was trying to pull their dog off another dog it was humping and it started flailing around by the collar, it looked just simply excited, but then it turn around and started biting into the woman's jacket and leg. 

Pretty scary!

Please keep us updated on Carley and Stella.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

> Carey's Mom,
> 
> Here is a link to a website that may help a little. It reinforces was has been said above.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah! I see this ALL the time. Especially at my old job at a boarding facility/groomer. So important to promote calmness and referee when things are getting too rough and rowdy.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I have used thundershirts with some success for Peeves (and to a lesser extent Lily, who is generally not so sensitive) with fear and anxious behavior during fireworks and thunderstorms. I also agree that positive reinforcement of desirable behaviors during counter-conditioning training sessions where you control the triggers (noises) for the outbursts of aggressive behavior is the most likely way to get a long term solution that lets both dogs live peacefully under one roof. It will take a long time, but eventually you should be able to get Stella to give you a conditioned response that you desire in response to the cues that currently stress her out.

Be careful and patient. I hope you get a good outcome.


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