# Petition to strip Rebecca Cross of her BIS win in Crufts 2015 for harsh handling



## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

Please see https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petiti...in-show-win-at-crufts-2015-for-harsh-handling and sign according to your own conscience.

Note: signators without UK address, use postcode B40 1NT


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

I'm sorry for being lazy but who is petitioning? Is it PETA????

pr


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

No - it was started by dog loving members of the public. Rebecca Cross repeatedly picked the Sottish Terrier up by his tail and throat, which is not permitted in UK showing and is considered cruel. She was also repeatedly warned that it was against the rules, but not disqualified. The dog went on to win Best in Show.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)




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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> View attachment 234841


Yup. It's obvious to me that this dog was not hurt in any way. He is a show dog and he is used to it. It probably bothers him less than brushing his teeth. 

But then, I don't think the dog's treatment is the issue here. If they strip the title, that is a JOKE and they are making clowns out of themselves. That's my opinion. 

It seems like extremist animal right's activism. :afraid::afraid::afraid:

pr


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Yes I think the only issue I would have is that it said she agreed not to do it and that it is against the rules. But... I would have to check the source on that info. With just this link it is too much of a one sided opinion, I want facts not he said she said stuff.


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> View attachment 234841


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Poodlerunner said:


> Yup. It's obvious to me that this dog was not hurt in any way. He is a show dog and he is used to it. It probably bothers him less than brushing his teeth.
> 
> But then, I don't think the dog's treatment is the issue here. If they strip the title, that is a JOKE and they are making clowns out of themselves. That's my opinion.
> 
> ...


To me what matters is that the handler received warnings but was not sanctioned when she continued as before.


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

Sorry, but the same people who think the Scottie was mistreated are the same ones who think all dog shows are cruel and abusive. All based on pure ignorance. The petition I signed was one that asks Crufts _not_ to strip the title.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

peccan said:


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I understand that part. I think that is what needs to be addressed not that she was being cruel. That would not be her fault and why punish her by stripping the title? If she is used to doing something a certain way for years it would be hard to not do it that one time even if she was warned. Something's are just ingrained in our minds to do and it takes a lot of reminding to change it. It should be who ever is in charge of sanctioning that should be petitioned. Now if she were doing to plain out disrespect whoever asked her not to that would be different. But from what I have read that is not the case.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

either the dog was bis or it wasn't. strip the handler of the right to show if warranted, but take away the dog's title? kind of like stripping a kid of his gold stars because his mom acted up at a pta meeting.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

So thankful to see so many people here thinking with clear heads! I'd happily sign the one asking Crufts to leave things be. Anyone know where to find it?


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

I'm pretty certain CK will do nothing about the title, but my hope is that discussion will arise. Hell of a lot of noise was needed to make even a dent in the mountain of problems that is breeds with serious sine qua non health issues. It's astounding how lately it was possible to win big in huge shows with animals that could barely breathe.

So many practices go on because they're "tradition" or "the way things are done". I'm not going to mention anything else (because lord knows I would spend the rest of the night ranting here) but even if it's harmless (for that specific individual) is there really any damn reason to lift an entire animal by his jowls and tail? Is it supposed to make the dog stand in a more flattering way? Show of his sturdiness and conduct? Is the ability to pick the dog up like this a breed characteristic similar to the "spinelessness" or Ragdoll cats? Or is it a left-over from, say, a time when people brought their working terriers to shows and wanted to make a difference to the prissy pet owners treating their precious poofs like spun glass?


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> So thankful to see so many people here thinking with clear heads! I'd happily sign the one asking Crufts to leave things be. Anyone know where to find it?


The only thing I could find was https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petiti...in-show-win-at-crufts-2015-for-harsh-handling


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

peccan, no problem with you ranting. we tend to be here for folks who do that out of love for their animals. personally i think it's a shame that akc, for example, does not have health testing requirements for dogs it registers. as someone rightfully pointed out, a large part of its "base" consists of commercial breeders - a far cry from our idealized idea of devoted individuals who love their breeds and would bend over backwards to do the best for them. so rant away. just don't expect a lot of support for taking away a dog's recognition just because its handler is questionable.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I tried to sign the DO NOT STRIP and it doesn't like my postal code. Isn't that your zip code plus those 4 extra numbers after? I made sure on a map and everything. WTH? I want to sign that one. I think that's some kind of stupid to think that harms a terrier bred to be tough in that area when they have to pull them back from a hole in the ground or going after vermin. Their tails are designed for that. Plus, the jaw area is typical where you hold the dog so you don't mess up their hair. It isn't the throat. It's up by the bone that supports. Who are these morons anyhow who started all this?


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## PoodlenPrada (Aug 13, 2014)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I tried to sign the DO NOT STRIP and it doesn't like my postal code. Isn't that your zip code plus those 4 extra numbers after? I made sure on a map and everything. WTH? I want to sign that one. I think that's some kind of stupid to think that harms a terrier bred to be tough in that area when they have to pull them back from a hole in the ground or going after vermin. Their tails are designed for that. Plus, the jaw area is typical where you hold the dog so you don't mess up their hair. It isn't the throat. It's up by the bone that supports. Who are these morons anyhow who started all this?


Go back to the original post on page 1. It says something there about signators without UK addresses have to use the postal code in the post. Maybe that will work?


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

patk said:


> (...) taking away a dog's recognition just because its handler is questionable.


That digs my bellybutton for some reason. The dog doesn't know or care if it's third last in a backyard match show or a national winner. The award is for the dog's personal excellence, but it rewards the people around the dog--the breeder, the owner, the groomer, the handler.

Because dog showing is about the dogs, their conformation and health and soundness and excellence as a breed's representative (or that's the ideal at least), it sound preposterous to deny them the prize their quality should win them based on the conduct of the people who are only supposed to be there as a mobile hitch post, to make a huge exaggeration. But then again, whatever the dog earns, the owner and breeder win.

I... shouldn't continue. I'm only going to write a gigantic manifesto on dog showing ethics. It's too late and I'm not getting paid.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

i understand how you feel, peccan. but i think of it this way. if there were a child who became class valedictorian and you noticed his/her mother slapping him/her across the face, would the child's value and accomplishment be less? yet to those who never witnessed the incident, the parent would probably be basking in the child's accomplishment, too. it's one of the things we can't escape about reality. basically i suspect it comes down to how imperfect humans are.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I think the ramifications of taking away a title like that because of something irrelevant to how well the dog performs, how well put together he is, how great his temperament is deprives the breed's future. That dog may be thwarted from passing on his excellent genes on account of some unrelated whim of humans and their silly rules...rules that are not applicable, at least in this case. Not having that title could punish more than the owner and for what?

I'll go look again for that place where I find the proper postal code. Thanks Poodlen.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Ridiculous!!! Give the protesters some signs and a stage, and leave ordinary people alone. Why do they ignore real injustices in the world and concentrate on such stupid, insignificant absurdities.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think this is a cultural thing. The UK Kennel Club has (supposedly) strict welfare rules that govern its shows, and exhibitors can be disqualified or banned for breeching them. This exhibitor was repeatedly warned, but continued to progress through the classes - I think that is why people are up in arms. This handling technique is common in the US, but not permitted in the UK, so seems far more shocking to UK viewers - and raises the issue of whether other welfare issues are being ignored or nodded through by judges and stewards.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

fjm said:


> I think this is a cultural thing. The UK Kennel Club has (supposedly) strict welfare rules that govern its shows, and exhibitors can be disqualified or banned for breeching them. This exhibitor was repeatedly warned, but continued to progress through the classes - I think that is why people are up in arms. This handling technique is common in the US, but not permitted in the UK, so seems far more shocking to UK viewers - and raises the issue of whether other welfare issues are being ignored or nodded through by judges and stewards.


Rules are rules. Okay...I get that. If they _must_, then punish the owner with a fine or some kind of waiting period, like probation until she's allowed to show the dog again. But don't take away the dog's title. The dog didn't do anything wrong. It's not relevant to take away the title the dog EARNED by being the dog he is. Either the dog is great or he isn't. What his owner or handler did doesn't change that fact. And I think it will cause more harm than good by using _that_ as a punishment.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

I think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. People act like she pulled out a well hidden machete and proceeded to cut his tail and head off while on the table! Now that would be cruel. If what she did was seen as so cruel, which obviously the people on the grounds didn't believe so it would have been stopped.

I can attest that something you have done for years that it becomes a habit is difficult to change. The dog was not harmed and very happy to be handled by his handler. Picking them up like that doesn't hurt them, sets them up, and they know to behave.


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