# Grain free puppy food for mini?



## Winterlily (Oct 13, 2010)

Just preparing for the day when I have a mini pup sharing my home and heart! I'd like to feed grain-free, and had settled on Acana puppy - until I found out that no, it's not available in the states. Grrr... (Anyone know of a source who will ship it here?) Orijen puppy is a possibility too of course. Any other suggestions of a good grain free for pups?

And along with that: Does a mini pup even need a puppy food? Could a mini pup just start out eating adult food? I know it's not always a good thing to do with the bigger guys because of calcium levels etc, but is it okay with the smaller guys? If feeding adult was totally fine and safe, I'd just go ahead and start with Acana adult I think.

What do you all think?


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## Penjilum-Poodles (Apr 17, 2010)

We feed Acana Grassland (Grain Free) I have heard of Pet Flow that sells it and ships, take a look to see. I know they have shipped to texas and the buyer got free shipping after buying Acana grasslands ($56/30 pound bag) and Taste of the Wild Bison ($45/30 pound bag) from Pet Flow. Saved $27 on shipping (free shipping)! 
Hope this helps.


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## Winterlily (Oct 13, 2010)

Just a clarification: I can fairly easily find Acana adult food, but I understand the *puppy* food is not sold in the US.


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## Penjilum-Poodles (Apr 17, 2010)

Winterlily said:


> Just a clarification: I can fairly easily find Acana adult food, but I understand the *puppy* food is not sold in the US.


Did not see that...lol
They don't sell puppy food Grain free to my knowledge. 
Sorry I was of no help


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## ziggylu (Jun 26, 2010)

The puppy Acana formulas are not grain free. Some of the adult formulas are.

I wanted to put my greyhound on the lamb and apple adult formula(not grain free) and was being repeatedly told from different distributors it was unavailable to the US. I called Acana to find out why. All the non-grain free formulas include milk thistle which currently is not USDA approved as a food ingredient (only as a supplement). Acana told me they were changing the formulas to be able to export to the US but didn't have an availability date to give me.


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

Hmmm. Taste of the Wild says for all stages; but it is not a "puppy food."


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

orijens is the best i heard... A lot of different holistic pet shops and my holistic vet recommend it... my pom wouldnt eat it so i tried evo chicken and she loved it for about a year then she changed her mind again so now im doing a cooked home diet mixed with orijens...


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## Camille (Feb 3, 2011)

Orijen has too much protein for puppies(40%). I feed Acana pacifica(Any of their grain free foods are good but Esme has possible chicken allergies) and it has enough fat content and is lower protein(33%) which is fine for pups. I was looking into taste of the wild pacific but the fat I find is too low for a puppy.

I'm feeding this to my two year old miniature but will also be feeding it to my new puppy coming in. It was recommended by a breeder on here and also by two girls at the global pet foods(Not like most chain pet stores these guys actually know their stuff, sell only high end foods and don't sell animals in their store either, love it)

Ive yet to find any holistic type puppy foods that don't have 40% protein(Which is too much for a puppy).


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## Winterlily (Oct 13, 2010)

Thanks guys.

Ziggylu - I did not realize that Acana puppy was not grain free! Thanks for that.

Okay - so then I guess the question really is, is there any reason I have to/should feed a mini pup puppy food? Can I not just go ahead and feed one of the Acana adult formulations right from the beginning?


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## Camille (Feb 3, 2011)

Winterlily said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> Ziggylu - I did not realize that Acana puppy was not grain free! Thanks for that.
> 
> Okay - so then I guess the question really is, is there any reason I have to/should feed a mini pup puppy food? Can I not just go ahead and feed one of the Acana adult formulations right from the beginning?


As long as it has proper protein and fat content needed for puppy growth and I think it also needs to have Taurine But don't quote me on that one as i could be mistaking myself with cats and ferrets. I think any young animal needs taurine for brain growth though.(Some of the more experienced breeders can comment) then it should be fine. You might have to feed differently than suggested on the package for a growing puppy who burns more fat.


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## Winterlily (Oct 13, 2010)

Thanks Camille! What is the proper fat content?


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## Camille (Feb 3, 2011)

I found this chart 

reccomends 17% fat, minimum protein 8%

Fats: Nutritional Requirements & Obesity in Dogs

Still looking into it but need to go to bed, work tomorrow and have to wake up early to bring Esme to her teeth clean XD


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## Camille (Feb 3, 2011)

So for a puppy your looking to have around 28% protein and 17% fat. Obviously your not going to get perfect but you want to look at around that.


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## Winterlily (Oct 13, 2010)

Okay thanks. So Acana adult is pretty close to that (33 and 17 for the one I looked at). Thing is, their calcium is listed as 1.3 minimum - no maximum given. I know with large breed pups, you don't want them on a food with more than about 1.5% calcium generally. Is this not an issue or a worry with the littler guys because they don't grow as quickly?


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## Camille (Feb 3, 2011)

WHEN DOES A PUPPY REALLY RECEIVE TOO MUCH CALCIUM?

MINIMUM calcium requirement is estimated around :

- 320 mg/kg of bodyweight for the young puppy, down to119 mg/kg in the adult dog (NRC 1985) 

- a corresponding diet contains at least 2,9 g of Ca/1000 kcal, or 1,1 % of Ca/Dry Matter (DM) if the diet contains about 3500 kcal/kg DM (AAFCO 1995) 

MAXIMUM calcium tolerable is: 

- 7,1 g of Ca/1000 kcal
- or 2,5 % of Ca/DM for a diet that contains 3500 kcal/kg de MS. (AAFCO 1995) 

At the difference of the adult, the puppy is not able to adapt its calcium absorption to calcium intake. He always absorbs at least 40 to 50 % of the calcium of the diet, when the adult dog can limit its absorption down to 10 %. 

Mini/Medium Junior: 1,35 % Ca (1,46 % Ca/DM) ; 4300 Cal/kg or 3,1 g Ca/1000 
Cal
Maxi Junior : 1,50 % Ca (1,63 % Ca/DM) ; 3960 Cal/kg or 3,7 g Ca/1000 
Cal. 

These products are nutritionally complete and no supplementation is necessary. 

If some puppy owners insist to give "a little something else", we must try to discourage them, by showing how dangerous this bad habbit is, especially for large-breed puppies. 

Here are the main sources of calcium available, and a few exemples of practical supplementations. Over these limits, calcium excess becomes really toxic. (The upper limit is 7,1 g Ca/1000 Cal). 


Mineral and vitaminic complément (MVC) : 15 % Ca ; 1 cs (= 1 coffee spoon) = 6 g. 
Phosphate bicalcique/monocalcique : 20 % Ca ; 1 cs = 4 g 
Bone meal : 30 % Ca ; 1 cs = 5 g 
Egg shells/calciumcarbonate : 40 % Ca ; 1 cs = 5 g 
3 months-old puppy, 5 kg (breed : Spaniel ; adult weight : 15 kg) 200 g of Medium Junior / day that brings 2,7 g of Ca per day.
Maximum tolerable addition of Ca : + 3,4 g or: 

23 g of MVC (3,8 cs), 17 g of phosphate bicalcique (4,2 cs), 
11 g of bone meal (2,3 cs), 8,5 g of calcium carbonate (1,7 cs).


*3 months-old puppy, 5 kg (breed : Spaniel ; adult weight : 15 kg) 200 g of Medium Junior / day that brings 2,7 g of Ca per day.
Maximum tolerable addition of Ca : + 3,4 g or: 

23 g of MVC (3,8 cs), 17 g of phosphate bicalcique (4,2 cs), 
11 g of bone meal (2,3 cs), 8,5 g of calcium carbonate (1,7 cs). *


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## Dolce and Louis (Feb 23, 2011)

I had my minis on orijen puppy but it was to rich for them the result was cow pie pooh! I talked to many people and did lots of reading and decided on Fromm it has 2 grain free choices surfe and turf and beef frittata veg they are for all life stages and my minis are doing very well on it.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

If the bag doesn't list a max % for calcium I think you can call the company to ask. Also, I think that if the food is labeled for "all life stages" it should be acceptable to feed to a puppy.


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## okilayla (May 25, 2010)

I had my mini puppy on Orijen as well and it was too rich. He is doing great on Taste of the Wild and it is all stages so my older mini can eat the same food.


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