# tail docking



## Melodyp77

I'm strongly considering not docking any tails in any future litters, would like your opinion on that? do you like the long tail and would you still show a pup with a long tail? (UKC Only) It wouldn't bother me and I have seen video of the poodle with a full tail and I just love it. Not to mention the benefits of an intact tail for agility. Dew claws I will remove though. I find it so hard as a groomer to clip them and have seen so many people neglect to do so.


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## fjm

Docking has been banned for some years in the UK, except for working dogs, and docked dogs cannot be shown in any show that charges an entrance fee. There was a wave of protest when it was first proposed, but everyone got used to it very quickly - and the dogs look very well balanced with their full tails once your eye is no longer expecting a short tail. Breeding out the gay and curly tails that have been disguised by generations of docking will, of course, take longer - I often wonder if that is not (perhaps subconsciously) behind the arguments that come up in favour of docking!


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## Carley's Mom

I would not do it. But I will admit I think unless they have a very straight tail it looks better docked. I am happy to see more long eared Boxes , Dobes and long tailed poodles.


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## Indiana

I doubt people would really care that much...the trend has been for such long-docked tails for a while now, sometimes only 1 little segment is taken off the end of the tail. I always think, why bother then? I wish my two had longer tails.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

This is our puppy Journey with an au naturel tail. I love it. She is one of three I own with an undocked tail. I am getting used to it and likely in the next couple of years will stop docking. Growing up in a show home, it is an adjustment though. But this little girl, at 6 months of age, took a Best Puppy in Breed and three Reserve Winners Bitch at her first CKC shows over black, mature, docked dogs even with her big plume.


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## dogs123

O.k.....this is just my opinion....Don't flame me here:ahhhhh:

I think the two most important traits in poodle beauty are the tail and the top knot....I am by no means saying that the other elements don't play a big part , but I have seen really nice poodles badly clipped that look terrible, and have seen poodles, that while not the most "put together", look really pretty with a gorgeous top knot and long beautiful tail standing up in the air......

I am almost neuortic on how my poodles top knot looks, and I love her huge tail standing tall....

I remember, years ago, our show trainer saying that by scissoring a show dog, you can make bad parts look better, and good parts look spetacular.

So, the body can be made to look better, but the top knot and tail are of upmost important in giving the poodle it's regal look....and expression.

Would I pass up a terrific poodle with a long tail? Probably not if I was looking for agility, pet, therapy, or hunting. But to use in conformation or my 'show off' dog....I would maybe pass.....


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## vtomblin

I love the look of a docked tail. At this point I would not buy an undocked dog and show it. I will be docking my litter next year. Just my personal view. I may change my mind over time and if more people show undocked I might grow to like the full tail. Have to say I like a long dock though.


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## tortoise

I won't buy (or adopt) a docked poodle. 

I have seen ONE standard poodle with a full tail that is not hideous. Actually, it's STUNNING. But it's also very incorrect. Her tail is clipped into a "plume". She curls her tail and it looks like a massive, perfect pom.


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## pgr8dnlvr

When I was looking, I was hoping and praying for a natural tail. Unfortunately I was just 6 days too late to save my Lucy's tail and I'm pretty sad about that. At least she has a very long dock. I hope you and a many more breeders choose NOT to dock tails. 

Thank goodness it's been a while since I've had to assist in docking pups at work. The requests are getting fewer and farther between!

Thanks for taking the time to weigh BOTH sides of the coin! 

Rebecca


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## Quossum

I like the natural tail if it's not curled tight over the back. As a performance dog owner, I wouldn't mind having an undocked tail, and even considered asking my dog's breeder to leave "mine" undocked, but then she would have had to choose mine that early, and I wanted to wait and see which one would be the best prospect.

Luckily, the fashion is for a longer and longer dock. I think the poodle is a breed that could adjust easily to giving up the docking tradition altogether. I wouldn't be sad to see it go!

--Q


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## Melodyp77

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> This is our puppy Journey with an au naturel tail. I love it. She is one of three I own with an undocked tail. I am getting used to it and likely in the next couple of years will stop docking. Growing up in a show home, it is an adjustment though. But this little girl, at 6 months of age, took a Best Puppy in Breed and three Reserve Winners Bitch at her first CKC shows over black, mature, docked dogs even with her big plume.


She looks beautiful from this angle. I'm worried that the show population will turn their noses up at me but I really like the undocked tail. If I knew that all my dogs were going to pet homes I would just leave it undocked but I am hoping one goes to a show home but since they are not even born yet we can't really say if any would even be show quality.


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## papoodles

I personally wouldn't buy a poodle with a natural tail as I absolutely love the elegant line of a poodle with a docked tail- but I could love one just as easily with a natural tail if I adopted..


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## mom24doggies

I'm kind of up in the air with it....I like a docked tail but could get used to undocked on a poodle. As others have pointed out, the docks are getting longer and longer, so we are already being "trained" to like a fuller tail. Just as long as the tail is nicely set, is held up, isn't horribly curved, and can be banded and shaped into a pom, I'm happy.


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## lafdr

I would prefer undocked. It just seems more natural and does not put the pup through unnecessary pain. But I had trouble finding a breeder who left tails natural since it is done at such a young age before "personality testing" she felt more people wanted docked and did not want to take a chance of leaving the "wrong" pup undocked. I would have chosen a breeder with undocked tails if I had the choice when I was looking, so it would have made me MORE likely to get one of your pups. With my 3 dogs, one is docked unusually short, and another unusually long. So the 3 docked tails are all very different lengths. I would not be bothered by the different types of long tails.


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## kime1701

Had to respond to this one seeing as I have had both. My last poodle was a retired show dog and had the perfect tail and set. Kes has a great tail set and a very long dock and usually it is a gay tail carried over her back. Except when she is running or on guard and she then carries it poker straight. I absolutly prefer the longer tail it is just so expressive and fits her sassy personalty to a tee. I have goomed it to look like a large pom when she's relaxed and when she is running it looks like a flag flowing in the wind. I love her tail.


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## outwest

Personally, I would look for another litter before buying a poodle with an undocked tail. They almost all curl over the back, which I don't care for. I think the long docks are nice. Call me oldfashioned, but it is a good idea to poll this audience for differing opinions. I also liked dew claws removed, but my breeder doesn't do it and it isn't something I feel that strongly about so that didn't bother me. But, tail docking? I like docked tails and I think many people in the US prefer them docked. If you didn't live in the US it wouldn't be a question.


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## faerie

better undocked over a bunny tail.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

I agree Faerie! There is no way to turn a chicken nugget into a thing of beauty. There is lots you can do to an undocked tail to make it look respectable.


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## Arcticfox

Next time I look for a poodle to buy, I would look for a natural tail. If I'm adopting though, I wouldn't care either way. I prefer the look of a natural tail more than a docked one but it doesn't make a huge difference to me either way. It's more the unnecessary pain and risk of infection that makes me uncomfortable with docking, just as I would not dock a dobe's ears if I had the choice.


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## brownlikewoah

Eventually when I get my standard, I want one with a natural tail. The more I look at pictures of the natural tails, the dogs look more balanced and correct to me. As a groomer I get a big variety of poodle tails in the shop, and I feel bad for the dogs with the bad dock jobs, way too short, or bone sticking out of the end... I wish there were more breeders who left them natural! Hopefully by the time I get a standard it will be easier to find quality breeders who leave them long.


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## Sawyersmomma

I never knew too much about poodle looks before I joined on here. Sawyer has a really short dock. I thought it was the perfect length, but now on here I think the longer docked tails are gorgeous. 
I still haven't gotten used to the look of an undocked tail. Actually when I was looking for Sawyer anytime I read there was an undocked poodle I skipped to looking to a different breeder. Ya... I didn't have my priorities straight, but that was my first reaction.
I prefer longer docked tails over anything else... but still would prefer Sawyer's too short-to an undocked. Again, if I was around or actually Saw a spoo with a full length tail, I'm sure I'd adjust and love it... It's just new to me


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## Yaddaluvpoodles

I have always had "issues" with docking, however I docked, in part because way back when, many poodle rescues wouldn't accept a poodle with an undocked tail (really. I'm not kidding. That's only been 15 years ago) and on the offchance that one of my poodles every ended up getting lost and being turned into a rescue, I docked. I also docked because of social pressure. That was then.

My last litter was undocked and I don't plan on ever docking a litter again. I also left dewclaws in place on my last litter. I had left them intact on a litter prior to that and liked what I was seeing.

I don't breed for the show ring. When I first started out, I was more oriented towards shows, but quickly learned that poodles are all that.. and SOOOOO MUCH MORE! While I tend to leave the "all that" (show stuff) to people who love it, it's the "so much more" part that really has me hooked. My poodles tend to be very sound, agile dogs, super people oriented with strong work ethics and I gear them more towards jobs and becoming partners with their humans, rather than merely pets and companions and yes.. it's a whole new level of pet ownership for someone who has never experienced a canine partner. Anyhow, at this time, my pups come with dews and tails and I like 'um like that.. a lot!

Darla


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## CMPB

vtomblin said:


> Have to say I like a long dock though.


Agree completely. I requested that Pierre have a longer dock. We are happy, though we'll see how he looks as he matures. He's only 9 weeks and a few days.


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## Poodlecat

I requested my last puppy to be undocked. The breeder wanted to make sure I didn't back out and she wasn't left with the puppy and no one would want her. 

Now I won't get a puppy docked. The natural tail is so much prettier and expressive but the biggest thing is when massaging the dog. On the docked tails, it's just a stub and I notice the dogs with docked tail kind of jump when I get to the end of the tail. On the natural tail, there is no uncomfortable reaction when massaging or apply accupressure to the tail tip.

Next puppy I don't want them docked or dewclaws taken off but I'm more interested in performance dogs and like to take more of an holistic approach to dogs and their health. I appreciate like minded breeders and would tend to buy from them vs. more traditional ones.


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## PlayfulPup

What is the benefit of leaving the dewclaws on?


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## Carley's Mom

The Male that I am going to be getting this fall looks in pictures, to have a too short, docked tail... The breeder got him as part of the sale of his Mother I am sure. So she did not dock the tail and I bet she doesn't like it ,if it is as I think, too short.

I prefer the look of the long dock. I would never dock at all if I was a Breeder, but I think that most people like the docked tail best. And unless you really know your poodles, I think most people think a short dock looks best of all.


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## Poodlecat

Spunky said:


> What is the benefit of leaving the dewclaws on?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


What's the benefit of taking them off except for the convenience of grooming?

Here is a link to an article discussing dew claw use, by Fred Lanting who "has had years of experience as a conformation judge for AKC, SV, UKC, and many other registries, and regularly trains his dogs in schutzhund, trying to live up to the title of his book “The Total German Shepherd Dog” (available from www.Hoflin.com). He consults as a behavioral analyst and training coach, and gives seminars on training, canine anatomy & gait, as well as orthopedic problems"
_
"I AM suggesting that the first digit on the front limb IS indeed useful and functional. I have bred Terriers, raised and raced Whippets, reared hundreds of my own puppies and adults, worked Shepherds in Schutzhund, handled and judged all breeds, and closely observed all types of dogs. I am sure that vets see some torn small digits, especially the less-developed rear ones, but I have seen countless active dogs break through crusty snow, ice, and very rough brush, work on the sleeve in bite work, and both hunt and lure-course over broken ground with no torn first digits on the forelimb. I have also observed innumerable dogs using that first digit in manipulating bones, sticks up to the size of logs, balls, and other toys. I have seen many dogs use them to get out objects that were stuck between their teeth, and to even to remove (gingerly) material from the eyelids."
http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0019.htm


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## Indiana

brownlikewoah said:


> Eventually when I get my standard, I want one with a natural tail. The more I look at pictures of the natural tails, the dogs look more balanced and correct to me. As a groomer I get a big variety of poodle tails in the shop, and I feel bad for the dogs with the bad dock jobs, way too short, or bone sticking out of the end... I wish there were more breeders who left them natural! Hopefully by the time I get a standard it will be easier to find quality breeders who leave them long.


I agree, I just love the photos on this forum of dogs with a huge plume of a tail like CM's Tiger! My dogs have too-short docked tails and I wish Maddy had a longer tail because she is such a confident little thing, she carries her tail in a beautiful way. Indy isn't as confident, she is more of a thoughtful, cautious type but she's got such a gorgeous coat I wish HER tail was longer because it would be pretty. But alas, they can't re-grow what has been removed. However I do enjoy looking at the long-docked tails on others, or natural if it is a nice tail set.


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## Anntig

Appearancewise I prefer a long dock however any dogs I buy in the future will have undocked tails as vets here are no longer allowed to surgically dock and I don't like the banding method, I've seen it go wrong far too many times.
As for dew claws I would never ever buy a pup with dew claws and wish more breeders would remove them, as a groomer I'd say about half the dogs I see with dew claws have problems with them and either rip them on a regular basis or don't use them and have them grow painfully long.


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## Arcticfox

Anntig said:


> Appearancewise I prefer a long dock however any dogs I buy in the future will have undocked tails as vets here are no longer allowed to surgically dock and I don't like the banding method, I've seen it go wrong far too many times.
> As for dew claws I would never ever buy a pup with dew claws and wish more breeders would remove them, as a groomer I'd say about half the dogs I see with dew claws have problems with them and either rip them on a regular basis or don't use them and have them *grow painfully long*.


What do you mean? The nails? Dew claw nails are trimmed when I do the rest of her nails... they're almost always the same length or even shorter. They don't seem to grow as fast, if anything. Or my dog has found some mysterious activity that wears down her dew claws specifically.

If not nails... I don't think the dew claws themselves grow longer than any other digit.


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## Anntig

Yes I'm talking about the nails, on far too many dogs I see them so long they've curled around and reentered the pad or are rubbing on the foot.


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## Arcticfox

Derp... do people not know about the dew claw and that there is a nail on it? I mean if the rest of the nails aren't in that condition, how do dew claws get like that? Yikes... 

(I don't think the solution to negligence is to "cut it off" though, education and promoting (or perhaps enforcing) responsible pet ownership would be better for everyone.


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## Anntig

In an ideal world yes people would be better educated and not leave their dogs until they're actually in pain however in reality people are stupid and it's often like beating my head on a brick wall trying to teach them that (I don't of course call them stupid to their face).
It still wouldn't help with the large number of dogs who rip their claws off however, My sisters staffy for example has tight close to the bone claws that once or twice a year he manages to rip off entirely leaving a painful fleshy stump that takes months to grow back into a nail.


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## Poodlecat

We've had so many dogs over the years...all different breeds...mostly ones that we rescued being dumped off. They all had their dewclaws except now for the poodles that we have. Never have had one problem with dewclaws and we live out in the country with plenty of room for them to run and get tangled up in undergrowth. We even had a wonderful Great Pyr, Maggie, God Bless her soul (such a sweetie), that had 6 toes and ones on the backfeet that are very loose but never a problem with her dewclaws. Not saying it doesn't happen but I'd rather keep what they are born with intact and deal with any issues if they happen. So far, we've been greatly blessed. :angel:


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