# Moyen/Kleinpoodle Breeder



## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Moyen (French) or klein (German) are accepted varieties in Europe for a medium sized poodle but the AKC does not recognize that size. If a dog is over 15 inches (about 18 lbs), then it is considered a standard in USA. If it is 10-15" (12-18 lbs), it is a miniature in this country. So if you hear of a breeder that says they breed moyen poodles, they most likely mixed minis with standards or they get their dogs from Europe, which rarely happens.

If you decide to go with a breeder who mixes minis and standards, look to see if they do health testing. I consider that to be the most important thing. I found a breeder like that in southern Indiana but that is not near you.

You might want to widen your breeder search to miniatures and hope for the 18 lb size.


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

Our mini boy, Beau, is "oversize," at ~16-1/2" and 22 lbs. But because he is out of in-size mini parents, he is not a "Klein" or a standard, just a mini that went over the (totally arbitrary) size criteria of the show world. We could care less -- he's the perfect size for us. There are several other oversized minis on the forum -- they are out there if you look.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

you could check with kamann poodles in brier, washington. she does not advertise herself as a moyen breeder, but it's not unusual for even the best of breeders to have an outsize dog. the problem is that no breeder can guarantee that at the outset. i asked peccan about moyens in europe and whether they ever undersize or outsize. yup, the issue exists, the difference being that fci requirements don't permit registration in another size if the dog doesn't meet the set standards.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Found a really good explanation of the 4 poodle sizes in a thread from a few years ago by peppersb:

http://www.poodleforum.com/2-member-introductions/50250-seeking-true-moyen-breeder-us.html


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Marty Rehm said:


> ... *We prefer a large mini* ... as we frequently dog sit our friend's larger dogs.


I can relate to that! We have an oversized *silver* miniature, out of in-size parents. Chagall is @17.75" and @ 22lbs. He can hold his own with bigger dogs. Bigger minis _are_ out there. My guy is out of a health-tested, proven line, something you are _wise_ to demand!



Marty Rehm said:


> We want a healthy, genetically tested dog.


:amen: to that and stick to it!:thumb:

I would suggest you contact the Poodle Club of America breeder referral person. (She's at a dog show right now, but I know she'll get back to you as soon as she can.) Tell her exactly what you hope to find. She'll do her best to direct you.:clover: 

Mary Olund
Phone: (415) 457-4648 
Email: [email protected]
Accepting calls from 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM Pacific time


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Grin you know there are small standards out there two my little girl and her sister are in the 21 inch range. Jazz at her heaviest was only 37 pounds... So they might be able to find a dog the size they want from either standard or mini breeders. They just have to make sure the breeder knows what size range they hope their puppy will grow into.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Searching for a true moyen, in the US comes up frequently on PF. There are less than a handful of legitimate breeders here. Unless you import or get lucky with one of the breeders, most are advised to seek an oversized MPOO or a smaller SPOO. I'm sorry for the loss of your beloved dogs, and hope Chagall's Mom's contact helps you find a great Poodle.


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## Marty Rehm (Mar 6, 2011)

*It's a Boy*

we believe we found our new little puppy. We contacted Kamann Poodles and she was expecting a litter.

They were born on Sunday just after the Seahawks won the division championship. We have selected a little boy who is white and the breeder expects he will be at least 15 inches tall which is exactly what we want. 

Thanks to all of you who gave me direction, this is a breeder that was suggested by someone on the forum and I appreciate everyone's support.


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## Naira (Jan 9, 2015)

Congrats on the new puppy!!!!! I am part of the small standard society.  I will be shocked if my girl grows to be over 20 inches. Make sure to start a 52 weeks thread for your puppy!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Congrats on your new Baby!!!! Be sure you share pictures with us... and keep on posting! Don't be a lurker for goodness sake!!! LOL!


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## kayfabulous6 (Nov 19, 2013)

Oh joy!!!! So happy to hear you have found a good breeder of the perfect pup! Can't wait to hear all about the baby


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## Pella (Oct 7, 2014)

It sounds like Kamann does health testing? And doesn't promise MOyens sized, but occasionally has puppies that are? Is your puppy from a small Standard litter?

I just got a Moyen sized puppy from Crabapple Downs after researching for months and not finding any reputable breeders close to me that bred Moyen sized dogs. A small Standard still seemed a little too big to me...Anyhow she's lovely so far and very sociable, fairly healthy...but still, i like hearing someone else went looking for a Moyen sized pup and maybe found something that involves health testing and is a little more of a sure thing...


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

MiniPoo said:


> Moyen (French) or klein (German) are accepted varieties in Europe for a medium sized poodle but the AKC does not recognize that size. (...)


Professional nitpicker coming through! Just dropping by to clarify that Moyen and Klein are exactly the same variety, recognised under FCI, it's just called differently in different languages just like all the other varieties (except for toys, mostly).

And Marty, all best luck for your puppy! You'll find out that Klein size truly is the best size


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

Peccan,

I know it's OT, but the avatar of your silver puppy is adorable. Is it even legal to be this cute?! Is he a klein poodle?


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

Poodle Lover said:


> Peccan,
> 
> I know it's OT, but the avatar of your silver puppy is adorable. Is it even legal to be this cute?! Is he a klein poodle?


Thaks! You wouldn't believe the bureaucratic loops I had to jump through to get all necessary permits to publicly walk such a lethally darling pup. And yes, he is.


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

peccan said:


> Thaks! You wouldn't believe the bureaucratic loops I had to jump through to get all necessary permits to publicly walk such a lethally darling pup. And yes, he is.


Ha? What does that even mean? You need a permit to walk this gorgeous creature in public????? :afraid:

Lethal indeed!!!


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

Poodle Lover said:


> Ha? What does that even mean? You need a permit to walk this gorgeous creature in public????? :afraid:
> 
> Lethal indeed!!!


Well I SHOULD need a permit! Seeing how he breaks retiree and construction worker hearts at every turn!

It's funny how the roughest looking men are the ones most likely to knot themselves up over how precious this lil fuzzball is. I swear the latest one who could not help his (manly) squeals looked like fresh out of prison. I'm happy either way but it's funny...


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

i have to ask: what does a manly squeal sound like?


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

patk said:


> i have to ask: what does a manly squeal sound like?


So very endearing. ♥


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