# Help! Alpha Issues



## TheWildOne (Jan 5, 2021)

We are having what appears to be territorial marking.
Our poo is 2 years old and when potty training she did pee on a brand new sofa about 3-4 times (she was just a pup). We continued with training and switched sofas and everything seemed good, she is potty trained and gets it. She is spayed and has no medical issues, vet checked. I’ve had some issues with her challenging me lately and I’ve been working on it with her-she’d been acting like she would love to pee on my daybed lately.
Last night she decided to look directly in my husband’s eyes and peed on the couch literally right next to him. She has also obsessively taken to rolling in my husbands clothes. We’ve had no changes in the house other than we do have a baby on the way.

I’m of the mindset that she can’t be on the couch or beds anymore. Currently we are going to be doing on leash training in the house, eating our meals before the dogs, etc. Any suggestions/tips are appreciated!


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Alpha concept is archaic and not based on real science it was debunked in the 1940s. 
I almost ruined my first poodle with that misinformed belief. Poodles are smart but they are not human.
Poodles work best with positive reinforcement vs negative, figure out the why and you can help her. And I think you might of answered your own question change is happening.


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## TheWildOne (Jan 5, 2021)

twyla said:


> Alpha concept is archaic and not based on real science it was debunked in the 1940s.
> I almost ruined my first poodle with that misinformed belief. Poodles are smart but they are not human.
> Poodles work best with positive reinforcement vs negative, figure out the why and you can help her. And I think you might of answered your own question change is happening.


If the why is the baby, I don’t know what steps would help her adjust? I don’t have any clothing with baby scent or anything like that to show her. I do think she feels she is in charge in the house and she’s sensing that something is changing.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

I think she is feeling unsettled because of the change that is coming. When my Maltese died, Frosty started marking in the house. It definitely wasn't due to trying to be dominant. It was a manifestation of stress/grief. I would definitely keep her off of the furniture and make sure she gets some extra training sessions with lots of rewards for good behavior, and a lot of exercise, play, and love.


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## TheWildOne (Jan 5, 2021)

MaizieFrosty said:


> I think she is feeling unsettled because of the change that is coming. When my Maltese died, Frosty started marking in the house. It definitely wasn't due to trying to be dominant. It was a manifestation of stress/grief. I would definitely keep her off of the furniture and make sure she gets some extra training sessions with lots of rewards for good behavior, and a lot of exercise, play, and love.


This is what I’m advocating to my husband, off the furniture, training, etc. We have a huge treat assortment for positive reinforcement. He wants to let her back on the furniture in short order but I really don’t want to keep replacing sofas! (Or the recliner or bed or daybed that I’m sure are next on her To-Do list)


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Sounds like your dog is adolescent. Also sounds like she's being a handful. What do you mean by challenging you? Growling, snarling, or air snapping? Or more silly and not listening?

Can you tell me what happened right before the dog peed on the couch the last time? Fill in the blanks for me.

My husband was doing *___*, *__*, (or said, *__*, in ____ tone of voice to the dog) and the dog peed on the couch. Knowing the antecedent is key to untangling dog behavior. So is knowing the reaction.

First *___* happened. Dog peed on sofa. Then *_* happened. 

If I know the antecedents and the response, I can help you going forward.


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

What people often take as a dog trying to be "alpha" is usually a dog who doesn't have enough direction desperately trying to make sense out of chaos. In real wolf packs the leaders are usually the parents of the other members. Your dog is essentially in the same position of a child who hasn't been given enough direction and structure to begin with and now everything is changing. The solution isn't to crack down or dominate the child, it's to give the kid structure and rules they can understand.

It's not the baby itself that's stressing the dog out, given that it isn't here yet, but all the things that come with expecting a baby. Baby preparations are different for different people, but in my experience it's very similar to moving. Moving tends to wreck havoc on a dog's nerves. A lot of stuff is changing and the dog has no context. Your routines are changing, things are likely moving around the house, you both probably smell different, and there's a sense of expectation in the house that wasn't present before. All the scent marking is probably her screaming "I'm part of the pack too! Everything is changing and I don't understand!"

While keeping her off the furniture may help, quality time, structure, and attention will be the way forward. Everything else is only a bandaid to fall off at the earliest opportunity.


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## TheWildOne (Jan 5, 2021)

Click-N-Treat said:


> Sounds like your dog is adolescent. Also sounds like she's being a handful. What do you mean by challenging you? Growling, snarling, or air snapping? Or more silly and not listening?
> 
> Can you tell me what happened right before the dog peed on the couch the last time? Fill in the blanks for me.
> 
> ...


She’s been initiating staring contests, nippy,playing games of not coming or refusing to come inside (we’ve combatted that by giving any good dog who comes in correctly a high value treat), sneaking into the nursery (which she isn’t allowed until it’s actually prepped), etc. Lots of games and boundary testing. Also has been eyeing my daybed when she thinks I’m not looking.


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## TheWildOne (Jan 5, 2021)

Misteline said:


> What people often take as a dog trying to be "alpha" is usually a dog who doesn't have enough direction desperately trying to make sense out of chaos. In real wolf packs the leaders are usually the parents of the other members. Your dog is essentially in the same position of a child who hasn't been given enough direction and structure to begin with and now everything is changing. The solution isn't to crack down or dominate the child, it's to give the kid structure and rules they can understand.
> 
> It's not the baby itself that's stressing the dog out, given that it isn't here yet, but all the things that come with expecting a baby. Baby preparations are different for different people, but in my experience it's very similar to moving. Moving tends to wreck havoc on a dog's nerves. A lot of stuff is changing and the dog has no context. Your routines are changing, things are likely moving around the house, you both probably smell different, and there's a sense of expectation in the house that wasn't present before. All the scent marking is probably her screaming "I'm part of the pack too! Everything is changing and I don't understand!"
> 
> While keeping her off the furniture may help, quality time, structure, and attention will be the way forward. Everything else is only a bandaid to fall off at the earliest opportunity.


I do think she can smell. I caught her staring very curiously and intensely at my stomach. She has been interested in whiffing my belly. So I have let her check out my stomach and talking to her about ‘baby, gentle’ 
You’re right about the changes, we probably aren’t aware of the changes but there must be changes (I sleep more, the food in the house has changed, there’s a forbidden room to her)


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

TheWildOne said:


> She’s been initiating staring contests, nippy,playing games of not coming or refusing to come inside (we’ve combatted that by giving any good dog who comes in correctly a high value treat), sneaking into the nursery (which she isn’t allowed until it’s actually prepped), etc. Lots of games and boundary testing. Also has been eyeing my daybed when she thinks I’m not looking.


I think a lot of this is about perception. Peggy stares when she’s trying to communicate something. Gracie (half poodle) did the same. Sustained, _penetrating_ eye contact.

If I thought they were trying to engage me in a battle for dominance, that would do serious damage to our relationship. In Gracie’s case, it would have also resulted in a lot of accidents, as she used the stare primarily as a way to say, “_I urgently have to pee!!_”

I used to take her to work with me, and one day I got super busy and didn’t take her out at lunch for a pee. Bad human! By the end of the day, she was noticeably uncomfortable (i.e. annoying) and finally burst on an area rug. As she helplessly peed (and peed and peed and peed!), she made steady eye contact with me. There was no spite in that stare. Just pure desperation. But I can see how it might have been interpreted differently.


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## TheWildOne (Jan 5, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I think a lot of this is about perception. Peggy stares when she’s trying to communicate something. Gracie (half poodle) did the same. Sustained, _penetrating_ eye contact.
> 
> If I thought they were trying to engage me in a battle for dominance, that would do serious damage to our relationship. In Gracie’s case, it would have also resulted in a lot of accidents, as she used the stare primarily as a way to say, “_I urgently have to pee!!_”
> 
> I used to take her to work with me, and one day I got super busy and didn’t take her out at lunch for a pee. Bad human! By the end of the day, she was noticeably uncomfortable (i.e. annoying) and finally burst on an area rug. As she helplessly peed (and peed and peed and peed!), she made steady eye contact with me. There was no spite in that stare. Just pure desperation. But I can see how it might have been interpreted differently.


I get that, we try hard to anticipate the dogs needs before it becomes an issue and we’ve trained them to run to the back door if they need to go, in her case we had let them out to go potty 1.5 hours prior to peeing on the sofa. My old spaniel boy will gaze out of adoration so it’s not always a challenge when dogs look back. In her case, however, it’s a different look, like a ‘who do you think you are?!’ look vs a ‘I’m hungry’ or ‘I want to play’ or ‘potty!’ look. I’ve gotten stare downs lately when I’ve gone to sit down on the sofa and sat in the spot she likes (right next to my husband).
I will say, she’s very good about communicating when she needs to play, snuggle, eat or potty (other than lately).


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

Evelyn similarly makes sustained eye contact when he wants something. Unfortunately it can mean anything from hunger to I need cuddles to if you don't take me out immediately I am going to pee under the dining room table. Ranna also does this when he's expecting a treat. Earlier this week I let him out to pee, he decided that since the snow out in the yard was appropriate the snow directly in front of the door would be even better. Faster treat delivery that way, of course. So he positioned himself right in front of the glass door, horizontal so I could see his perfect stance, and made sustained eye contact with me the whole time as he peed on our doormat. I am sure he was extremely bewildered by the dressing down I gave him instead of the delicious beef treats he clearly deserved. He wasn't challenging me, I set him up to fail.

Evelyn wouldn't challenge a mouse, let alone me. Ranna...well, not as long as I'm the one holding the key to the delicious beef treats.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

TheWildOne said:


> we try hard to anticipate the dogs needs before it becomes an issue and we’ve trained them to run to the back door if they need to go, in her case we had let them out to go potty 1.5 hours prior to peeing on the sofa.


90 minutes is plenty of time for a dog to fill up her bladder again, especially if she got distracted on her outing and didn't fully empty it the first time out. I had a similar incident with my adolescent in the house a couple weeks ago. We were playing inside, he got excited, and at the end of the game he lifted his leg on a piece of furniture. This puppy was very good about being housebroken, so I took full responsibility for setting him up to fail.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

This sounds like a bored poodle more than it sounds like dominance, IMO. What's her schedule like? Exercise, training, play, naps, etc? Has it changed?

Without video (Vimeo links and YouTube links work well) this sort of behaviour is pretty hard to judge. It's all body language, and teensy little movements of muscles. I think dogs probably think we understand their 'language' about as well as we think our dogs understand English. A lot of subtleties are lost in translation, they must think us painfully illiterate! 

My poodle also states at me all the time when she wants something. It's rarely clear what she wants, but is sure more frequent if she is bored! I don't interpret dogs having desires as 'dominance'. 

Is it possible she just wants up on the daybed? 

My local trainer offers a service where she will do a prebirth in-home consultation with a family who is expecting a new baby to help them prepare the dog and themselves for what is changing and develop a plan. 

Sounds like something like this might be valuable to you? For the safety of the baby, and for the comfort of the dog, it sounds like a really helpful thing for peace of mind to have a plan in place, and an expert assess the dogs behaviour. 

I think there's a link on here somewhere with how to find a good trainer -i'd avoid any one of them that wants to talk about dominance or 'alpha' behaviour.


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## TheWildOne (Jan 5, 2021)

cowpony said:


> 90 minutes is plenty of time for a dog to fill up her bladder again, especially if she got distracted on her outing and didn't fully empty it the first time out. I had a similar incident with my adolescent in the house a couple weeks ago. We were playing inside, he got excited, and at the end of the game he lifted his leg on a piece of furniture. This puppy was very good about being housebroken, so I took full responsibility for setting him up to fail.


Possible, my gut though tells me it’s more than that. She can hold it up to 4 hours (we don’t make her hold it that long but sometimes she just does) If it were on the floor I would attribute it to a regular accident, but on furniture without breaking a beat after 1.5 hours (she stood up, stared and peed) makes me think there’s more to it and it’s more emotional/behavioral.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

TheWildOne said:


> in her case we had let them out to go potty 1.5 hours prior to peeing on the sofa.


If she is a small poodle and there is snow / cold, sometimes they don’t like doing their business outside. I have problems with Beckie every winter. She goes outside, but instead of doing her business, she runs under the bush to smell the squirrels, cats or whatever, and bark at them. Just like a 3 year old who plays and forgets to pee. Then when it’s time to poop, her feet are cold and she wants to come in.

Then she comes in the house for the night, and she poops on the carpet near the door. She is going to be 6 and she does that every winter. There are the actions I take to bring her back on track :

1- watch her when she poops outside and praise her like a mad woman
2- watch her when she goes outside before bed and give the « go poo » command before she even runs in the bush
3- only allow going after what she wants once she has done her business
4- use a baby gate to block access to the carpet

Again, this doesn’t apply if your dog is a standard. But minis and toys, like all small dogs, can be challenging. And if you don’t find solutions like the ones above and you let it go, the more the behavior happens, the harder it will be to get rid of. Once they’ve done it, it rapidly becomes a routine.


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## TheWildOne (Jan 5, 2021)

For Want of Poodle said:


> This sounds like a bored poodle more than it sounds like dominance, IMO. What's her schedule like? Exercise, training, play, naps, etc? Has it changed?
> 
> Without video (Vimeo links and YouTube links work well) this sort of behaviour is pretty hard to judge. It's all body language, and teensy little movements of muscles. I think dogs probably think we understand their 'language' about as well as we think our dogs understand English. A lot of subtleties are lost in translation, they must think us painfully illiterate!
> 
> ...


The daybed she’s been napping with me in, it hasn’t been off limits to her. Lately she’s been doing the preparatory potty pacing on it when she thinks I’m not looking.
Her schedule runs like this: M-F
7am-8am potty, water, and high value treats for listening, play, running around with the spaniel (racing). Sit, stay, come practice. Declines breakfast 98% of the time.
Up until noon (crated in her own room).
12 potty break, water and treats for listening.
4pm: Potty, water, dinner. Play, general goofing around with her brother. Potty again after dinner and yard racing.
~5pm a walk with her dad (my husband).
6-10pm Playtime, puzzles( we have like 4 advanced ones), snuggles, fetch, treats for listening, antler chew time, house racing with her brother, general goofiness, tv watching (she likes basketball). Usually a potty break around 7-8 if needed, she usually doesn’t but the spaniel needs it.
10pm potty time and treats for going to their respective crates for bedtime. Screaming from 10-11.
Weekends are similar but with generally more treats, excursions, more play and naps and snuggles with me.


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## TheWildOne (Jan 5, 2021)

Dechi said:


> If she is a small poodle and there is snow / cold, sometimes they don’t like doing their business outside. I have problems with Beckie every winter. She goes outside, but instead of doing her business, she runs under the bush to smell the squirrels, cats or whatever, and bark at them. Just like a 3 year old who plays and forgets to pee. Then when it’s time to poop, her feet are cold and she wants to come in.
> 
> Then she comes in the house for the night, and she poops on the carpet near the door. She is going to be 6 and she does that every winter. There are the actions I take to bring her back on track :
> 
> ...


We do this too lol. We got into the habit during potty training and came up with trigger words for pottying. So we enforce it, use the words, observe her go, let her back in and then give her a treat.


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

Please please please understand that the idea of alpha is FALSE. The whole premise was a study done on a pack of wolves in captivity that were unrelated to each other. When the researchers took the study to the wild, they found that the "dominant" members of the pack were just the parents doing parenting wolf things. Additionally, a group of researcher study dogs packs that were free-ranging and found that the leaders the pack followed actually rotated depending on the needs of the pack and the knowledge of the dogs which contributed to the needs of the pack at the time. Usually the leaders ended up being the older dogs.

The idea of alpha is false and the idea you must assert dominance over your dog is a dangerous notion as it generally leads to severe punishment techniques. For more back ground information feel free to check this article out. I think it gives a good overview of the issue. Canine Dominance: Is the Concept of the Alpha Dog Valid?

Okay to your schedule:

7am-8am potty, water, and high value treats for listening, play, running around with the spaniel (racing). Sit, stay, come practice. Declines breakfast 98% of the time.
*Add: Take her out AGAIN 15min after she drinks water*

Up until noon (crated in her own room).
12 potty break, water and treats for listening.
*Change: Water in crate area, wait 15 minutes, then potty break

What's happening between 12-4?*

4pm: Potty, water, dinner. Play, general goofing around with her brother. Potty again after dinner and yard racing.
~5pm a walk with her dad (my husband).
*Change: Dinner, WAIT 15 MINUTES, then potty break and play.
When going for a walk, make sure dad doesn't end the walk as soon as she goes potty, that punishes the potty. *

6-10pm Playtime, puzzles( we have like 4 advanced ones), snuggles, fetch, treats for listening, antler chew time, house racing with her brother, general goofiness, tv watching (she likes basketball). Usually a potty break around 7-8 if needed, she usually doesn’t but the spaniel needs it.
*Take her out from 7-8 anyways just in case*

10pm potty time and treats for going to their respective crates for bedtime. Screaming from 10-11.
*What do you do when she screams??*

Reinforce RIGHT AFTER YOUR DOG GOES PEE with a treat EVERY TIMES when she goes potty outside then engage in a game of fetch/tug/play. You stated that you reinforce when she returns inside with a treat. You are not reinforcing peeing outside. You are reinforcing coming back into the house. By reinforcing when she goes pee outside you are telling her, yes this is where you go. You get attention, treats, and praise when you go out here. 

If you are not able to watch your dog then the pup should be in a crate. This way accidents should not occur. Reading Ian Dunbar's ebook might be very helpful.

If she has an accident take her outside, no words no emotion, just calmly take her outside. Reinforce with treat is she finishes out there. Then clean up the urine and spray it with nature's miracle, or something similar, to erase the enzymes. *This is really important.* The enzymes produced in urine encourage your dog to eliminate in that spot again. That's why your dog was peeing in the same spots again and again. Not to spite you, but because the smell of previous urine marks. You can use a black light to find other marks and use the spay on those too to get rid of the enzymes. Follow the bottle's directions, sit time is different for older marks than newer ones. 

Does she have a bell or another way to indicate to you she needs to pee?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Does the mention of water in your schedule mean you’re withholding water the rest of the time? If so, effective immediately, I’d provide her with 24/7 access to water. This way she won’t feel the need to drink to excess, which can trigger urgent urination or require multiple trips outside rather than a single potty break. Dehydration can also (rather counterintuitively) cause the urge to urinate.

As for the screaming from 10-11.... This isn’t healthy or sustainable. Have you looked into trainers in your area to get an outside set of eyeballs on the situation? Even for experienced dog owners, involving a neutral but knowledgeable third party can really help with problem solving. I know our trainer has been invaluable. She’s KPA certified, but CPDT is another excellent option. Both have directories for local searches.


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## TheWildOne (Jan 5, 2021)

naybaloog said:


> Please please please understand that the idea of alpha is FALSE. The whole premise was a study done on a pack of wolves in captivity that were unrelated to each other. When the researchers took the study to the wild, they found that the "dominant" members of the pack were just the parents doing parenting wolf things. Additionally, a group of researcher study dogs packs that were free-ranging and found that the leaders the pack followed actually rotated depending on the needs of the pack and the knowledge of the dogs which contributed to the needs of the pack at the time. Usually the leaders ended up being the older dogs.
> 
> The idea of alpha is false and the idea you must assert dominance over your dog is a dangerous notion as it generally leads to severe punishment techniques. For more back ground information feel free to check this article out. I think it gives a good overview of the issue. Canine Dominance: Is the Concept of the Alpha Dog Valid?
> 
> ...


12-4 is work as is 9-4, we both work FT. Her dad actually does a great job walking, he lets her pee and then continues with the walk as the walk is specifically for her to have fun. The screaming is a temper tantrum so as long as her needs are met we simply ignore. Last night it took 10 minutes and then she was asleep. Our latest struggle has been that she will not come inside after peeing, she will pee if she needs to but then refuses to come in-it’s a game for her. We do a verbal ‘good girl!’ When she pees. Thus treat for finishing and coming inside. She’s too fragile and little to just be left out until she decides to come in-plus I don’t trust wild animals with her.


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## TheWildOne (Jan 5, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Does the mention of water in your schedule mean you’re withholding water the rest of the time? If so, effective immediately, I’d provide her with 24/7 access to water. This way she won’t feel the need to drink to excess, which can trigger urgent urination or require multiple trips outside rather than a single potty break. Dehydration can also (rather counterintuitively) cause the urge to urinate.
> 
> As for the screaming from 10-11.... This isn’t healthy or sustainable. Have you looked into trainers in your area to get an outside set of eyeballs on the situation? Even for experienced dog owners, involving a neutral but knowledgeable third party can really help with problem solving. I know our trainer has been invaluable. She’s KPA certified, but CPDT is another excellent option. Both have directories for local searches.


No, water is present 24/7. My boy dog will steal from her bowl after she’s done so at those times I check and refill (he’s a pig). So we keep a close eye on it especially as she already is a picky eater and light drinker.


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## TheWildOne (Jan 5, 2021)

I really genuinely think that it’s a territorial/dominance or claiming of the sofa. She’s gone a full year without any accidents. Plus, it’s not the same sofa, so not scent related. She has access to water 24/7, and has multiple potty breaks plus she had just peed outside 1.5 hours prior to peeing on the sofa and she can hold up to 4 hours-I’ve watched her decline to pee and hold it that long. I think it’s sofa claiming.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Again, the whole alpha dog theory was based on crap science. It's not how stable wolf packs function. Moreover, dogs aren't wolves. 
A lot of times when there is a huge change in behavior, there's a medical reason behind it. Things like urinary tract infections and diabetes can certainly make dogs need to pee more often. 

Of course, there could also be an emotional component behind it too. The advent of winter, the preparations for the arrival of the baby, your changing scent could indeed be disconcerting her. Two of my dogs used to engage in submissive or excitement piddling when they were young. They hit the couch because they happened to be standing on it when they hit threshold. With one, he would often squat and pee when he heard someone speaking in a stern or excited voice. The other would look out the window while standing on the couch, see something that excited him, and forget to hold his bladder. With both of those dogs, treating their peeing like dominance marking would have been the exact opposite of what needed to happen. It would have locked them into a cycle of stress peeing.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

You mentioned she peed on the sofa multiple times as a young puppy. That alone would have me thinking this is more of a deeply ingrained behaviour re-emerging due to stress (physical and/or mental) than a new attempt at claiming furniture.

In a previous thread you mentioned your spaniel was experiencing cognitive issues. Is he being treated and doing well? Is it possible he’s been urinating in the house? Or could his decline possibly be making your girl insecure?

Regardless of all this, screaming for an hour every night at two years old is not healthy, happy behaviour. Dogs don’t have human temper tantrums and to still be “crying it out” at this age tells me she’s extremely stressed. Imagine her anxious anticipation of bedtime every evening, when bedtime is so upsetting to her? 

I encourage you to seek some outside help before the baby arrives and things get more complicated. Eating meals before her is not going to solve this, especially if it’s an abrupt change to her current routine.


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

My family's bearded collie (fully potty trained ) was known to pee on their bed when he was stressed out by changes in routine. It started post-adolescence and happened occasionally throughout his life, typically when my parents went away and he was unhappy about it. It is not about dominance nor was it a potty training issue. This sounds similar. It may feel like acting out because the bed or couch feels personal, and there may be some logic to that, but rather than dominance think of it as communicating distress. Dealing with her underlying stress and helping her become more resilient to changes is probably the direction to go, possibly with some professional help or at least troubleshooting. And in the meantime limit her access to the furniture where she is peeing.


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

When she goes on the furniture is it a little bit of urine or a lot of urine?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

naybaloog said:


> When she goes on the furniture is it a little bit of urine or a lot of urine?


From the original post, it sounds like there was only the one incident of peeing on a sofa (aside from early puppy peeing on a sofa they no longer have).


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> From the original post, it sounds like there was only the one incident of peeing on a sofa (aside from early puppy peeing on a sofa they no longer have).


Oh I was thinking the peeing was a recurring issue. The recurring issue is just the dog acting like it wants to pee on the furniture? Or is the issue that the dog stares at the owner?

Or what's the issue? Now I'm confused lol.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

naybaloog said:


> Oh I was thinking the peeing was a recurring issue. The recurring issue is just the dog acting like it wants to pee on the furniture? Or is the issue that the dog stares at the owner?
> 
> Or what's the issue? Now I'm confused lol.


If I’m understanding correctly, there was one incident of peeing on the couch while making eye contact.

Plus:



TheWildOne said:


> She’s been initiating staring contests, nippy,playing games of not coming or refusing to come inside (we’ve combatted that by giving any good dog who comes in correctly a high value treat), sneaking into the nursery (which she isn’t allowed until it’s actually prepped), etc. Lots of games and boundary testing. Also has been eyeing my daybed when she thinks I’m not looking.


Reading through that list again, I would have a baby gate blocking the “forbidden room,” as I’m sure it’s very intriguing to her. Or I would just keep the door closed. Management solves so many poodle problems.

I also would never not reward a dog who comes when called, whether that reward comes in the form of treats, play, attention, etc.


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## Puppy Love (Aug 10, 2015)

My brother thought his dog was doing the same thing. He thought his dog was peeing in the house out of spite for whatever reason. Although the dog was capable of holding it many hours at a time he was lifting his leg in the house sometimes 15 minutes after coming back in from potting outside. He too would stand and look right in my brother's eyes. I tried to get him to take the dog to the vet for bloodwork but he was sure it was defiance. I took him myself and it was a medical problem. You may want to have bloodwork done just to rule out any possible issues.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

I don't know how much I could helpfully add to what has already been offered. I'm relatively new-ish to dog ownership. So I remain humble in that respect. 

However, I will echo again that the Alpha dominance theory that unfortunately still circulates isn't accurate. The researcher responsible for it has since spoken up to say that he was wrong. The sad fact is that far too many people apply it to explain both house pet AND human behaviour even though it's been debunked. 

I had a cat who occasionally peed in unfortunate places-- places that would have made it tempting to claim "alpha" or "challenging"behaviours. He peed in my partner's suitcase when we were packing for a trip, on our laundry once we had returned from a (different) trip, on our bed, and lastly ON ME while I was napping on the couch (while pregnant). This precious boy was a pretty anxious cat. He was communicating to us his unease. 

I know it's easy to take it personally when animals (or young children) act in ways that appear confrontational. How often do we hear parents apologize, become embarrassed by, or explain apologetically about their toddler's tantrums? We make their behaviour mean something about our perceived defects, and because THAT is painful, we get angry and frustrated and project it outward at the very beings we love.

In terms of pregnancy, your little lovey can absolutely smell the shift in your hormones. 

As far as I see it, we have two choices when it comes to dealing with behaviours we don't love: we can choose compassion and be curious about another's pain/struggles, or we can choose to be defensive, armour up, and dig in our heels. I try to remind myself to consider the unique perspective of the other, because it's all too easy for me to fall into the trap of assuming I know how they're seeing/experiencing the world.


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## TheWildOne (Jan 5, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> From the original post, it sounds like there was only the one incident of peeing on a sofa (aside from early puppy peeing on a sofa they no longer have).


This^
It happened a couple times in babyhood, she was very young then like maybe 12 weeks old. Only this once in adulthood has she peed (so far). There’s also excitement piddling but we just mop that up and move on (it’s just excitement).


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## TheWildOne (Jan 5, 2021)

naybaloog said:


> When she goes on the furniture is it a little bit of urine or a lot of urine?


It’s a little. Not a few drops but definitely not a full bladder.


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## TheWildOne (Jan 5, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> You mentioned she peed on the sofa multiple times as a young puppy. That alone would have me thinking this is more of a deeply ingrained behaviour re-emerging due to stress (physical and/or mental) than a new attempt at claiming furniture.
> 
> In a previous thread you mentioned your spaniel was experiencing cognitive issues. Is he being treated and doing well? Is it possible he’s been urinating in the house? Or could his decline possibly be making your girl insecure?
> 
> ...


The old boy dog, bless his heart, has actually been a good boy and he’s not had a single accident. He is declining but gracefully so as of lately. He’s been doing better with her and she seems to have sparked some life back into him. He struggles to see and hear, but he’s game to play with her every day. His responses to her have been great and I don’t think I’ve ever been prouder of his old cranky butt 💕 They’ve been great to each other lately. I’m actually worried about when he passes, she’s so close to him now but when that bridge appears, we’ll have to figure it out.


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## TheWildOne (Jan 5, 2021)

Puppy Love said:


> My brother thought his dog was doing the same thing. He thought his dog was peeing in the house out of spite for whatever reason. Although the dog was capable of holding it many hours at a time he was lifting his leg in the house sometimes 15 minutes after coming back in from potting outside. He too would stand and look right in my brother's eyes. I tried to get him to take the dog to the vet for bloodwork but he was sure it was defiance. I took him myself and it was a medical problem. You may want to have bloodwork done just to rule out any possible issues.


She’s had work up, she’s a healthy gal 🙂


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

You need to address this from a scientific perspective. Click is right about Antecedents, Behaviors and Consequences (ABCs of dog behavior) and the basis for good training. The basis of how training works it to use predictable patterning involving the ABCs. This is not what has happened for your dog. And I don't really see that you filled in the blanks in Click's post. Neither of us can really help you without that information.

Your whole household is about to experience huge changes with the impending birth of your child. Since your baby's safety has to be of paramount importance and you have to be right the first time I urge you to get a dertified behaviorist to help straighten things out ASAP. None of us can truly make meaningful recommendations without seeing what is happening. Look for good behaviorists through the Certification Council for Professional Dog Trainers. ccpdt.org They certify behaviorists as well as trainers. Because the safety of an infant is part of the picture a behaviorist would be better for developing effective strategies.

Oh and yeah, alpha issues is just so much bad and debunked science.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

The fact that she declines breakfast most of the time, screams at night, and you guys are gone for 8 hours a day makes me think she is very stressed and has separation anxiety. I'm rarely gone 8 hours a day, but if I am, I hire someone to come in for 1 hour to walk the poodles for 30 minutes and give them love for the rest of it, plus I walk them before I leave in the morning. Eight hours is a LONG time for dogs to be alone.


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

TheWildOne said:


> We are having what appears to be territorial marking.
> Our poo is 2 years old and when potty training she did pee on a brand new sofa about 3-4 times (she was just a pup). We continued with training and switched sofas and everything seemed good, she is potty trained and gets it. She is spayed and has no medical issues, vet checked. I’ve had some issues with her challenging me lately and I’ve been working on it with her-she’d been acting like she would love to pee on my daybed lately.
> Last night she decided to look directly in my husband’s eyes and peed on the couch literally right next to him. She has also obsessively taken to rolling in my husbands clothes. We’ve had no changes in the house other than we do have a baby on the way.
> 
> I’m of the mindset that she can’t be on the couch or beds anymore. Currently we are going to be doing on leash training in the house, eating our meals before the dogs, etc. Any suggestions/tips are appreciated!


Two things caught my attention in your post: the looking into your husband’s eyes when she peed on the couch, and her obsessive rolling in your husband’s cloths. Is your dog particularly bonded to your husband? If so, has there been a change in your husband’s schedule or the amount of time/attention he’s giving her? Could it be she's acting out to get his attention? Also, what is this hour long screaming session at bed time? Could this be some sort of separation anxiety? I’m sorry I don’t have more to offer. Hopefully, this is a temporary thing.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

In my experience, poodles have an acute way of picking up on their family's emotions. Could it be, that she is picking up on you and your husbands array of emotion about your upcoming baby. It is always exciting and terrifying during the last eeks, as you are filled with hope and worried about the unknown. She might pick up on that and look to your husband for reassurance.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Minie it isn't might be that this dog is picking up on changing household emotions, most certainly the pup is sensing and responding to the state of flux in the home. I think an outside and emotionally non-involved behaviorist will give the OP good insights.


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## TheWildOne (Jan 5, 2021)

BennieJets said:


> I don't know how much I could helpfully add to what has already been offered. I'm relatively new-ish to dog ownership. So I remain humble in that respect.
> 
> However, I will echo again that the Alpha dominance theory that unfortunately still circulates isn't accurate. The researcher responsible for it has since spoken up to say that he was wrong. The sad fact is that far too many people apply it to explain both house pet AND human behaviour even though it's been debunked.
> 
> ...





MaizieFrosty said:


> The fact that she declines breakfast most of the time, screams at night, and you guys are gone for 8 hours a day makes me think she is very stressed and has separation anxiety. I'm rarely gone 8 hours a day, but if I am, I hire someone to come in for 1 hour to walk the poodles for 30 minutes and give them love for the rest of it, plus I walk them before I leave in the morning. Eight hours is a LONG time for dogs to be alone.


They get a midday break for potty, food, and running around. So it’s not really 8 hours consecutive, it’s 4 hours


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## TheWildOne (Jan 5, 2021)

Happy'sDad said:


> Two things caught my attention in your post: the looking into your husband’s eyes when she peed on the couch, and her obsessive rolling in your husband’s cloths. Is your dog particularly bonded to your husband? If so, has there been a change in your husband’s schedule or the amount of time/attention he’s giving her? Could it she be acting out to get his attention? Also, what is this hour long screaming session at bed time? Could this be some sort of separation anxiety? I’m sorry I don’t have more to offer. Hopefully, this is a temporary thing.


she is, she’s actually a daddy’s girl and very much his dog. He has been spending more time with me because of the baby. Her thing with his clothes has been very much that she seems to want to smell just like him.


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

TheWildOne said:


> she is, she’s actually a daddy’s girl and very much his dog. He has been spending more time with me because of the baby. Her thing with his clothes has been very much that she seems to want to smell just like him.


I think you're getting closer to the root of the problem. Good luck.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

cowpony said:


> Again, the whole alpha dog theory was based on crap science. It's not how stable wolf packs function. Moreover, dogs aren't wolves.


I’ve just learned last week, while watching a show about wolves (can’t remember what it was), that the Alpha theory was based on studying the behavior of captive wolves, who were not kept in their natural packs. Which brought on territorial and aggression behaviors that are not observed in the wild, in established social groups.

This « alpha » theory has not held true when wolves are studies in their natural environment. For example, the male and female leaders are actually very kind to the pack, and they eat at the end of the meal, when everyone has had their share.

That explains it all.

So yeah, bye bye Alpha theory !


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Copying this from a thread titled "Revenge Pooping". 

This is from an article written by Dr Stanley Coren, He writes the animal column for Psychology Today although this article is in a different magazine.

Which Emotions Do Dogs Actually Experience? | Modern Dog magazine










"*The Emotions that Dogs Actually Experience*
This developmental sequence is the golden key to understanding the emotions of dogs. Dogs go through their developmental stages much more quickly than humans do and have all of the emotional range that they will ever achieve by the time they are four to six months of age (depending on the rate of maturation in their breed).

The important fact is that we know that the assortment of emotions available to the dog will not exceed that which is available to a human who is two to two-and-a-half years old. This means that a dog will have all of the basic emotions: joy, fear, anger, disgust, and, yes, love, but the dog does not experience the more complex emotions like guilt, pride, and shame.

Many would argue that they have seen evidence indicating their dog is capable of experiencing guilt. The usual situation recounted is one in which you’ve come home and your dog starts slinking around showing discomfort, and you then find that he has left a smelly brown deposit on your kitchen floor. It is natural to conclude that the dog was acting in a way that shows that he is feeling guilty about his transgression.

Despite appearances, this is not guilt, but simply a display of the more basic emotion of fear. Your dog has learned that when you appear and his droppings are visible on the floor, bad things happen to him. What you see is his fear of punishment; he will never feel guilt because he is not capable of experiencing it."


I'd read an explanation some years back that put the more complex emotions that we think we're seeing in context.

I walk in the door to see tissues and newspaper shredded all over the floor. My dog looks at me. I give my dog the stink eye. My dog drops his head and actually makes himself smaller or even slinks away.
I naturally see that as guilt because that's what I would feel, but for him, it's fear, possibly mixed with confusion. Normally when I come home, it's a time for rejoicing, not stink eye. He might even be trying to figure out what's not right. Did he not make the pieces small enough? Maybe they should be closer to the door? 

I realize that we're talking pee not poop, and not guilt but also not "dominance" but some of this can be applied to how you look at her behavior.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Rose n poos I am very happy to see your post and the article. I think it is really important to get over the idea that dogs have the same array of emotions that we as adult humans possess. Putting those emotional responses and abilities on our dogs is an impediment to solving the problems many of us have in our training and in developing well balanced relationships with our dogs. It is extremely unfair to think that a dog, even a super smart one like a poodle, can respond to a situation as your adult human companions would. At best they will understand and develop their feelings and emotions about the way a three year old human will. In this thread (and others like the revenge pooping thread you referenced) there is too much unrealistic emotionalism and way too little scientific based thinking about dog training. 

I still think the OP needs a consult with a behaviorist to develop effective methods for reordering the hierarchy of her household before her baby arrives. A good certified behaviorist and then a good certified trainer to help with executing the behaviorist's plan would be great investments. Both types of professionals can be searched for through ccpdt.org Changes in who comprises the household are huge for all concerned and everyone's safety has to be developed to the fullest.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I fully agree with Catherine on this. We're both CPDT-KA trainers. And we've both seen the ugly fall out from dominance myths and poor training plans. With a baby coming the need for a training plan can't wait. Please hire a professional to help you.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

OP, if you're still reading I hope this gives something more than opinion to the discrediting of the alpha myth.

Wolf packs don't actually have alpha males and alpha females, the idea is based on a misunderstanding (phys.org) 

Who Needs an Alpha? Dogs Follow the Friendly | Pet Behavior | Live Science


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