# Ecessive tearing.....so frustrated! Need suggestions..



## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

Stella has been having tearing and staining. She had this in in right eye last year for about a month and I had her tear duct flushed and it went away.

It started again this summer in the right eye...and a little in the left eye. She just had her dental done a couple of weeks ago and had both tear ducts flushed...it seems worse than ever!!

I also started using angle eyes (against my better judgment..) to see if this will help. I hate the streaking that goes all the way down her face...but equally I worry why she is having such tearing. 

My vet said it is a breed specific problem...and I know it is a problem with poodles due to their anatomy..but she has not always had this problem. And you never see dogs that are in conformation with tear stains....so there must be something that I can do. I am wondering why now?? There is no sign of infection, no mucous or pus..just clear colorless drainage. I notice it more after she has played with player...I wonder if her hair gets in her eyes more then? I am trying to be deligent about keeping it our of her eyes with putting it up daily and using barretts too.

Any other ideas would be so appreciated. Anyone else had this with a standard? I knwo its more common with toys..and any other ideas of things to try? She eats very good food...grainfree, natures variety raw medalions. I dont think its allergies since it is mostly one eye. 

Thanks


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

I'm having the same problem with one of my MPOOs. He never had tear issues and now he's suffering from same problem as Ms. Stella. 

I've been flushing his eyes out with saline to make sure there's nothing bothering him. Perhaps they've both developed an "allergy" to something seasonal, like the leaves or ??? 

If it doesn't clear up, I'll run him to the vet and let you know what she says. If I get the "it's a poodle thing" line, I'll scream, because like Stella, it hasn't been a problem until now. :confused2:

In the meantime, I keep his face trimmed really short and wipe his face every evening to keep it clean/dry.


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## cliffdweller (Jan 31, 2011)

Rain also has a problem like this, and I am afraid I cannot be of much help since, as yet, it has not been resolved. Also, her condition is related to spastic entropion of unknown origin (-- so many possibilities !). So far, I have deferred surgery, as the entropion seems to be very slowly improving (-- before her spay earlier this week, the eye lid was "normal" about 80% of the time, but it has been worse since then). There is alot of tearing & a fair amount of mucus. She is seeing an opthalmologist, and, eventually, will have surgery if the condition does not resolve on its own.

I think that my inexperience in dealing with Rain's hair may be a contributing factor to her condition (-- I am, so far, a failure at really getting a handle on it). Also, when discussing this with members of this forum, two members mentioned similar conditions caused by small foreign objects (like a hair) trapped underneath the third eyelid.

Rain had yeast infections in both ears when she came to me. I inadvertently fed her a "good", no-grain kibble that contained yeast culture. I believe this may have contributed to the staining that is present where the tears keep her hair moist. Ears are no longer infected, but I think the yeast is systemic and may take some time, more learning, and further changes in her diet to eliminate it.

If entropion is present, I think it is not such a good idea to clip close around the eye. Clipping leaves short, sharp hairs that will come into contact with the cornea if the eyelid rolls inward.

Perhaps something I've said will help.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Stella, Tiger gets some staining as well. It drives me nuts because when I picked him up from Sharon's he hardly had any orange staining. Now that he has been back for a couple of weeks it has gotten a little worse. I notice that he tears after a) playing with Millie or b) eating. I know that feeding raw bones can make his tearing a bit worse as all of that crunching can really get those ducts tearing! I remember even Henry started noticeably tearing when I first put him on prey model raw.

Anyway, the active ingredient in Angel's Eyes is Tylosin. Tylosin does work and you probably would not see any more tearing. If you decide to continue with the Tylosin/Angel's Eyes, I personally would get some from your vet or from KV Vet Supply (or other vet supply) as the dosage is more controlled. With Angel's Eyes, they do not tell you exactly how much Tylosin you are giving. I just like the idea of giving pure Tylosin so I can be in charge of it.  I have tried Tylosin before, FYI, and it did work. However, I stopped as I felt guilty giving a constant daily antibiotic to Tiger at such a young age. It DID work, though!

Also, regarding what you said about conformation dogs not having tear stains. Well, typically handlers will use chalk for this, if necessary.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I don't know about the long term health effects of doing this... but I did try it on my shih tuz and it did work. I just added a tea spoon of white vinegar to her water every time I filled it. I did this for a month and notice new growth was white. I discontinued the vinegar when I got Carley.


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## Tymaca (Oct 13, 2011)

I don't know if you feed a raw diet, but the most amazing transformation occurred with Zoe almost immediately once she started eating raw. She had horrible goopy/runny eyes. I was constantly cleaning them. Now, she has no discharge or goop. I am seriously amazed! Just one of many benefits from feeding raw.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Tymaca said:


> I don't know if you feed a raw diet, but the most amazing transformation occurred with Zoe almost immediately once she started eating raw. She had horrible goopy/runny eyes. I was constantly cleaning them. Now, she has no discharge or goop. I am seriously amazed! Just one of many benefits from feeding raw.


Though I feed raw and Tiger still has natural tearing. His, though, is very clearly not due to his diet as, like I said before, it occurs when he eats (due to the crunching or due to gravity from his head being down for so long) and it also occurs when he rolls around on the ground playing with Millie (again, gravity). His is not gooey but just a very slight clear natural tearing. This is actually considered normal and discharge of this sort would not be affected by diet. Now, the orange staining happens from that constant moisture which allows yeast and bacteria to breed. 

Now, some dogs do get tearing issues from diet (allergies, additives, etc.) In those situations, I agree, Tymaca, the switch to raw would definitely help!


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## Tymaca (Oct 13, 2011)

ChocolateMillie said:


> Now, some dogs do get tearing issues from diet (allergies, additives, etc.) In those situations, I agree, Tymaca, the switch to raw would definitely help!


Yes! That was Zoe. Hers were really disgusting, which leads me to believe it was directly related to a food allergy (hence her cracked paw pads that are getting better as well). I do notice a clear tearing once in awhile, but like you said, that is just a natural occurrence that happens from play, gravity and the like.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Oh, and I wanted to add that I read somewhere on this forum that hydrogen peroxide carefully rubbed on the stain a few times a day for a few days can get rid of the stain. I tried this twice and the stains are already nearly gone!


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## flightsoffancy (Nov 9, 2011)

Just gonna lob this out there.... 
Also the vinegar helps to bring the body's PH balance back to a normal level, but it really should be Apple Cider Vinegar and Braggs is the best! I use it for so many things on our farm from chickens water, the horse and we even drink it on occasion. ACV fights bacteria (the Angel Eyes is an antibiotic) fungus and is also an anti-microbial.
So what if you also added Probiotics. Wouldn't that also help fight the bad bugs in the body that could cause the stains?


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

flightsoffancy said:


> Just gonna lob this out there....
> Also the vinegar helps to bring the body's PH balance back to a normal level, but it really should be Apple Cider Vinegar and Braggs is the best! I use it for so many things on our farm from chickens water, the horse and we even drink it on occasion. ACV fights bacteria (the Angel Eyes is an antibiotic) fungus and is also an anti-microbial.
> So what if you also added Probiotics. Wouldn't that also help fight the bad bugs in the body that could cause the stains?


Everyone in my household (human/canines alike) uses the Bragg's ACV. That stuff is amazing. I can't tell you how or why it works so well, but it's like a miracle product. It's on the same level as Chris Christensen's Peace & Kindness. 

(ETA: not sure if this works on staining/tearing, but I find it helps with overall body condition/health.)


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I use probiotics and ACV with no impact on staining with my dogs.


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks for all the offerings. I think I will try the vinegar. I will also get the ACV from the local farm store. I was told to get it there but thought Id start with angel eyes. I am not a fan of giving it all the time...but one, she must hate the constant wetness on her face and it cant be good for the skin. I am putting antibiotic ointment on that once a day. And two...she is a beautiful dog..but looks sickly and sad faced with brown streaking down her face!! I also had some gentamycin drops from when someone in my house had conjunctivitis...so I used those for a couple of days. Im convinced hers is from irritation. It is always worse after playing with Player. I think the hair goes all over the place during rough play....but it must happen with other dogs..and they dont all have the problem she does. Player rarely gets any eye drainage. I am going to read up on the condition Rain mentioned..Im not familiar with it. 

I think I might be able to stop the color if it with the ACV...but the more I watch closely I think I might have clipped the hair too short around her eyes and as it grows out it is sticking in her eyes...plus she has longer hairs that seem to just get in her eyes all the time...I have bands in and barretts! But she has fine little hairs that get in her eyes and wick the moisture out. I might even think of getting rid of her long TK :-( if I cant get this fixed. I wonder how close a dog opthomalogist is from me...? I might look into that. 

Again, thanks for all your helpful thoughts...I think many are part of our problem.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Ms Stella said:


> Thanks for all the offerings. I think I will try the vinegar. I will also get the ACV from the local farm store. I was told to get it there but thought Id start with angel eyes. I am not a fan of giving it all the time...but one, *she must hate the constant wetness on her face and it cant be good for the skin.* I am putting antibiotic ointment on that once a day. And two...she is a beautiful dog..but looks sickly and sad faced with brown streaking down her face!! I also had some gentamycin drops from when someone in my house had conjunctivitis...so I used those for a couple of days. Im convinced hers is from irritation. It is always worse after playing with Player. I think the hair goes all over the place during rough play....but it must happen with other dogs..and they dont all have the problem she does. Player rarely gets any eye drainage. I am going to read up on the condition Rain mentioned..Im not familiar with it.
> 
> I think I might be able to stop the color if it with the ACV...but the more I watch closely I think I might have clipped the hair too short around her eyes and as it grows out it is sticking in her eyes...plus she has longer hairs that seem to just get in her eyes all the time...I have bands in and barretts! But she has fine little hairs that get in her eyes and wick the moisture out. I might even think of getting rid of her long TK :-( if I cant get this fixed. I wonder how close a dog opthomalogist is from me...? I might look into that.
> 
> Again, thanks for all your helpful thoughts...I think many are part of our problem.


Regarding the constant wetness, Angel's Eyes will NOT change this. The ingredient in Angel's Eyes prevents the orange staining by reducing the chance of bacterial/yeast infection happening. However, it will have no impact on the actual tearing itself.


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

ChocolateMillie said:


> Regarding the constant wetness, Angel's Eyes will NOT change this. The ingredient in Angel's Eyes prevents the orange staining by reducing the chance of bacterial/yeast infection happening. However, it will have no impact on the actual tearing itself.


Right...that is what I was saying in the post. I expect the staining to get better..and that is a problem but mostly I dont like the excessive tearing...I want to figure out what is causing it and try to fix it. I appreciate all the suggestions. Ill keep trying different things and let you all know if we find a fix 

Also when I said ACV...I actually meant the stuff in angle eyes..the antibiotic. Im going to continue with it for now, but get it from the farm store next time.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Ms Stella said:


> Right...that is what I was saying in the post. I expect the staining to get better..and that is a problem but mostly I dont like the excessive tearing...I want to figure out what is causing it and try to fix it. I appreciate all the suggestions. Ill keep trying different things and let you all know if we find a fix
> 
> Also when I said ACV...I actually meant the stuff in angle eyes..the antibiotic. Im going to continue with it for now, but get it from the farm store next time.


Well I would also recommend the real ACV (Apple Cider Vinegar)!  It hasn't gotten rid of our tear stains, but I do think that it possibly has great health benefits!

The ingredient in Angel's Eyes is Tylosin.


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

Tymaca said:


> I don't know if you feed a raw diet, but the most amazing transformation occurred with Zoe almost immediately once she started eating raw. She had horrible goopy/runny eyes. I was constantly cleaning them. Now, she has no discharge or goop. I am seriously amazed! Just one of many benefits from feeding raw.


 Pretty much....I feed Natures Variety a frozen raw...but I also feed some high quality kibble too. 

Stella had good eyes until recently...something has changed..I do think its a irratiation of some sort..


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## littlebluetrike (Dec 19, 2011)

We have a customer who swears by using liver powder in their food removes the tear staining. And her white dogs don't have that problem


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Food, supplements, etc. can take months, if not longer, to show health improvements.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Some poodles have tear ducts that are angled incorrectly so the tears drain on their face instead of into their nasal cavity the way they are supposed to. It is very common in the small poodles, but less common in standards (although it does occur). Flushing doesn't usually do much because it is often an anatomy problem. Dog eye specialists can sometimes help. 

Some poodles have it as puppies and outgrow it as their face changes. Some acquire it as an adult when their face changes shape. If it is accompanied by orange staining then it has a yeast in it and angel eyes will take the orange stain away (it has an antibiotic that kills that yeast). If it is just clear, not a whole lot to do.

Grooming the face every two weeks will get rid of the stains. Wiping the eyes every night quickly before dinner is a habit lots of people get into. Then they don't stain. They will still have wet faces on occasion, though. In light colored poodles the staining is noticeable. Fortunately, Bonnie doesn't have this issue. Her cousin Chili does have it a tiny bit (a Moyen), but there aren't any stains because his face is shaved every two weeks. 

Sometimes it can be caused by a food allergy. It can also be caused by a low grade ear infection that you haven't noticed which makes the eyes tear unusually heavy. If you treat the ears, the eyes get better. Fortunately it is only cosmetic and doesn't effect the eye sight. 

It is too bad more people aren't paying attention to this issue when they breed and not breeding any dogs that tear. That way, the problem should go away. To say it is because of the shape of a poodle face isn't right. Many dogs have similar faces. Poodles are one of the only dogs to have this issue at the rate they do. It is almost always caused by faulty angled tear ducts.

It seems to come and go, come and go. I was wondering if the dog eye specialists could adjust the angle of the tear ducts so it doesn't drain on the face. I don't see why they couldn't do that. Has anyone every checked?


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## catsaqqara (May 20, 2011)

If its resent and nothing has changed(diet, move, etc) then perhaps her tear ducts need to be flushed.

I have been trying to find the cause of Jaden's staining, it might be environmental. There was a time when I had a mustache on him and it was snow white, then I moved and he started staining so I know its possible to rid him of the yeast. I also experimented with diet after the move so that's a factor too, but its been a few months so I'm not sure when I can rule that out. I noticed a long term improvement after I put him back on his old diet, used vinegar for about a week, gave him a couple rounds of probiotics and winter is here.


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## Q313 (Nov 3, 2011)

As a doberman person and on a doberman forum we see a lot of people struggle w/allergies, eye boogers and things like that also.
One thing that seems to have helped a lot of us is the addition of water packed canned sardines, starting at 1 or two per day. Rinse sardines not stated to be salt free.


I don't know if it's a coincidence or not but our girl's level of eye goop is no longer apparent since adding sardines to her meals at least once per day-kind of amazing actually....and of course it didn't take long to put a serious glow on her semi bald coat.

ALSO I want to make a comment about Nature's Variety raw. 

In my quest to avoid as many known allergens as possible and to try to keep our girl off script "Science Death" I was saddened to see the addition of GROUND FLAXSEED high up in NVI's ingredient list. Am not trying to yell there but highlight that in an otherwise premium food if your dog is sensitive to flax there may be issues w/itching, drainage etc.

I've been giving our girl the Bison mix and watch nervously when I see her scratch behind her ears. 

Granted my comment probably won't apply to a dog w/a genetic tearduct anomaly but perhaps it will help someone.


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks Q313..I do feel Stella's is from some sort of irritation since its always just the one eye..but your post is a good one and is helpful. I never realized natures variety had anything other than meat, bones and animal parts! I looked and it is 95% that...but there are some veggies and flax. I dont know if 5% is a concern. My dogs dont seem to have allergies..but for those that do...its good to know. Also I will add sardines and see if that makes any difference..Thanks for the post..and

Were you ever on the DPDF? That was the board I spent most time on when I had my doberman. It was owned by Helayne Silver.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Yes, this is why, when I must feed premade, I tend to steer away from Nature's Variety and Primal. Both include flax/veggies/etc. I prefer the prey model based premades (Vital Essentials) that only have meat, bone and organ. None of my dogs have allergies, but as a prey model believer, I choose to avoid veggie inclusive premades.


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

I dont worry about 5% for us...and I dont think we have any other premade raw around here. We have two stores that have premium foods..and niether have anything else :-( Maybe Ill get a meat grinder and do it myself. I cant handle the mess of RMB all the time.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Ms Stella said:


> I dont worry about 5% for us...and I dont think we have any other premade raw around here. We have two stores that have premium foods..and niether have anything else :-( Maybe Ill get a meat grinder and do it myself. I cant handle the mess of RMB all the time.


Have fun with that! LOL! I ordered a meat grinder once...it was the biggest mistake! The smell of meat grinding on that cold metal made me want to barf. 

I wouldn't worry about the 5%. I mean, personally I avoid it since I can, but I would have no qualms about feeding it otherwise. It doesn't hurt to ask if your local boutique can order Vital Essentials for you. Mine started doing it for me.  Even just for variety, to mix with the NV. It is a little cheaper too, and not HPP (which you might not like, since I know you liked the HPP for extra cleanliness for therapy, right?)




(Hey, if anyone once a legit meat grinder that I used once...let me know! I'll sell it!)


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Have fun with that! LOL! I ordered a meat grinder once...it was the biggest mistake! The smell of meat grinding on that cold metal made me want to barf.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about the 5%. I mean, personally I avoid it since I can, but I would have no qualms about feeding it otherwise. It doesn't hurt to ask if your local boutique can order Vital Essentials for you. Mine started doing it for me.  Even just for variety, to mix with the NV. It is a little cheaper too, and not HPP (which you might not like, since I know you liked the HPP for extra cleanliness for therapy, right?)
> 
> ...


What is HPP? duh..sorry::confused3: Did the meat grinder work for grinding bones? Imight purchase it from you..what do you want for it?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Ms Stella said:


> What is HPP? duh..sorry::confused3: Did the meat grinder work for grinding bones? Imight purchase it from you..what do you want for it?


HPP is High Pressure Pasteurized. 

Let me go look at the grinder's make so I can google it for specs. It will grind softer bones, like chicken.

Honestly though, if meat contamination is a concern at all for you, you might hate using a grinder! I felt like my whole house turned into a raw chicken. I did make the mistake of using it in the kitchen. Maybe it would have been okay if I'd have used it in the garage or something. I am eternally grossed out LOL.


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

CharismaticMillie said:


> HPP is High Pressure Pasteurized.
> 
> Let me go look at the grinder's make so I can google it for specs. It will grind softer bones, like chicken.
> 
> Honestly though, if meat contamination is a concern at all for you, you might hate using a grinder! I felt like my whole house turned into a raw chicken. I did make the mistake of using it in the kitchen. Maybe it would have been okay if I'd have used it in the garage or something. I am eternally grossed out LOL.


ewwwwww that doesnt sound good at all....and yes, I worry about "bugs" so maybe its not a good idea for me. I imagined it to be like a food processor...apparently NOT


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Ms Stella said:


> ewwwwww that doesnt sound good at all....and yes, I worry about "bugs" so maybe its not a good idea for me. I imagined it to be like a food processor...apparently NOT


Yeah, this grossed me out and I really don't worry about raw meat ever. It was just the smell. Sweet...raw..meat..YUCK. And it was kind of messy. But I'll still look it up for you.


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## Q313 (Nov 3, 2011)

Ms Stella said:


> Thanks Q313..I do feel Stella's is from some sort of irritation since its always just the one eye..but your post is a good one and is helpful. I never realized natures variety had anything other than meat, bones and animal parts! I looked and it is 95% that...but there are some veggies and flax. I dont know if 5% is a concern. My dogs dont seem to have allergies..but for those that do...its good to know. Also I will add sardines and see if that makes any difference..Thanks for the post..and
> 
> Were you ever on the DPDF? That was the board I spent most time on when I had my doberman. It was owned by Helayne Silver.


No I wasn't on DPDF but have heard of Helayne on another board and before that came across her sweet website about Bean(iirc?).
I'm on DT the last 4 years as Q734(real original w/area codes LOL) and spent some time reading the Nexus....searching for a unicorn ~8D Still searching.


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

Q313 said:


> No I wasn't on DPDF but have heard of Helayne on another board and before that came across her sweet website about Bean(iirc?).
> I'm on DT the last 4 years as Q734(real original w/area codes LOL) and spent some time reading the Nexus....searching for a unicorn ~8D Still searching.


Small world indeed..I am friends with Karen Wrey, maybe you know her? And Noni Palmer (big doberman agility person)...I think she might be on DT. They are both lovely people. 

I started a small doberman (private) forum when things got crazy on the public boards..and now members are down to just a handful. Most have doberman's from Foxfire. I think just about all our original dobes are dead :-( The board was started in 2003. We were all "friends" for a couple of years prior to that (were on "the corner" for a while...I should close it as there are only a very few of us left as so many people are on FB instead. Nexus was always a mystery to me..lol Some strong opinionated folks there years ago! I thought it closed when the forum owner died..?

Well, glad to meet another doberman/poodle enthusiast! We use to talk about the similiarities of the two breeds..both very velcro, agile, smart, beautiful and human like. People (from the dobe board) use to say a standard poodle was like a "dobeman in drag" lol meaning they are so similiar except the covering :wink:..


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks, Catsaqquara..is your Jaden the same Jaden on Flickr..where you had him in a miami with a long TK? That was my inspiration for Stella's miami if so  Both he and Bambi are beautiful


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Yes, this is why, when I must feed premade, I tend to steer away from Nature's Variety and Primal. Both include flax/veggies/etc. I prefer the prey model based premades (Vital Essentials) that only have meat, bone and organ. None of my dogs have allergies, but as a prey model believer, I choose to avoid veggie inclusive premades.


Today I went to buy more food...I asked the owner if she had Vital Essentials..She actually does..but its the dehydrated or freeze dried. She can get the frozen but said its not cheaper than NV. So I bought some of the freeze dried..its nice to have some that is not frozen..so ill see if they like it as well. Have you used the dehydrated from them? It was not cheap either a pckg of the large patties (count of 12) was 30.00, same as the NV. I feed some kibble too but I now use two patties a day for them both..so thats only enough for 6 days or about 120.00 per month PLUS dry kibble, plus bones twice a week...geshhh..I really dont like adding it all up..better to keep my head in the sand on this one  But they are worth every single penny :dancing2:


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Stella - that's very odd! Do you just feed the chicken NV? The chicken is the only that is even comparable to the vital essentials chicken and beef price. All other NV flavors are significantly more than Votal Essentials around here.


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Stella - that's very odd! Do you just feed the chicken NV? The chicken is the only that is even comparable to the vital essentials chicken and beef price. All other NV flavors are significantly more than Votal Essentials around here.


No, I buy a different one each time..beef, lamb or chicken..and I think there might be one more. Today I bought lamb...the only one that is more is an organic chicken one..I told the owner that you pay less for it in your state and she said that there is very little mark up in dog food and that it should cost the same (approx) what do you pay for either in your city?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Vital Essentials is $3.50ish/ lb or maybe right around 3.99/lb.

ETA: exact pricing - NV
6lb chicken - $28.99 ($4.83/lb)
6 lb beef - $32.99
6 lb lamb - $31.99
6 lb rabbit - $39.99
6 lb venison - $31.99
6 lb organic chicken - $38.99 ($6.49/lb) holy moly moly moly VE is at least $2.00/lb less than this.
6 lb bison - $30.99


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Vital Essentials is $3.50ish/ lb or maybe right around 3.99/lband NV ranges from $3.50 or $3.99/lb to over $9.00/lb depending on flavor.
> 
> These are approximate prices as I haven't bought premade in months! Lately ive been sticking with ground meat/bone/organ and some RMBs and heart chunks from My Pet Carnivore who delivers around the Midwest. Quite a bit cheaper and not at all commercial.


nd 
Maybe Ill check that out..so I paid $5.00 per pound today. My husband who buys teh food often said it may be different prices...we havent really paid attention..Ill have to look into that! Someone I know from Iowa with Dobermans pays like .30cents a lb for her raw food..we have a local woman who I buy chickens for us from..organic...healthy ones..and she makes "dog food" but everytime I have bought it and used it Stella and in the past my Dobe got diarrhea. It looks like a mix of red meats..Ive never asked her what it is..but I think it must have marrow in it..that never goes well for my dogs. 
Here is what her website says about her dog foods
Dog Food

Ground Mix $1.25 lb

Beef Bones $1.00 lb

Necks $1.00 lb

Wings $1.00 lb

Carcass $1.00 lb

Liver $1.25 lb

Feet $1.00 lb
Bones and raw meats are called the natural dog food on the BONES AND RAW FOOD (BARF) web site. Our dog foods are from our deboned free range chickens. Check the website: - you'll be convinces bones and raw meats are for your dogs. www.willoglen.com/barf.htm

The Goosemobile | South Dakota local farming at its best!
Here is her website..if you have time can you take a look and see what YOU think..Id appreciate your thoughts.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Stella - see above - I edited my post.

I currently pay between $.80/lb to $4.00/lb for the the items I buy. Around .80/lb for chicken parts and up to $3.50 or even $4.00 for exotic grinds from various farms in Midwest through My Pet Carnivore (llama, alpaca, lamb, bison, ostrich, mutton, beaver, goat, duck, rabbit and goose - all ground whole animals)


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## Kloliver (Jan 17, 2012)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Stella - see above - I edited my post.
> .... My Pet Carnivore (llama, alpaca, lamb, bison, ostrich, mutton, beaver, goat, duck, rabbit and goose - all ground whole animals)


Re: this company, what are the stand out products in your opinion?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Kloliver said:


> Re: this company, what are the stand out products in your opinion?


All of them? I'm not sure, ha ha. All of the meats come from local farms and most products are whole prey meat/bone/organ. There are some supermixes have (I believe) additional organ and tripe added in. They add no veggies or supplements :clap2: I've been feeding mostly this lately with RMBs thrown in every week for teeth cleaning. I just love the variety! I feed a different one every day. Whatever comes out of the freezer!


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## Kloliver (Jan 17, 2012)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I just love the variety! I feed a different one every day. Whatever comes out of the freezer!


Are your pups known as being "fussy?" I'm the dog mom who has cajoles, adds toppings, hand feeds (yes, embarrassed to admit... raw) to get him to eat. He's 66# & almost a yr old so perhaps his daily feeding percentage is now at 2 or 2.5%. I had a website with the chart based on age & breed but I cannot find it. Have any data for me pls?


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