# He hurt my 3 year old son =)



## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

He needs some obedience training, and it needs to be consistently applied. Mannie needs to learn that he is not allowed to go ahead of the humans, including your young son. If you need to, don't be afraid to hire a professional trainer. Whatever you have to pay will be worth your peace of mind.

In the meantime, I would keep him tethered to you any time your son is not in the same room with you.


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## shalynn (Mar 18, 2010)

Marian said:


> He needs some obedience training, and it needs to be consistently applied. Mannie needs to learn that he is not allowed to go ahead of the humans, including your young son. If you need to, don't be afraid to hire a professional trainer. Whatever you have to pay will be worth your peace of mind.
> 
> In the meantime, I would keep him tethered to you any time your son is not in the same room with you.


good idea thank you =)


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

How old is Mannie? I agree with the need for appropriate training - it doesn't have to be stern or harsh, there are wonderful methods now that work with even the youngest, softest pup. I have found the UK APDT classes excellent, and the trainers brilliant about giving sensible, useful advice. 

If there is one command mine really know it is "Wait!" - very, very useful for keeping things safe around doors, getting out of cars, putting leads on at the end of walks, and when there are children around they want to play with. Don't forget that it won't be enough to teach Mannie to wait at a door when you go through - you will need to generalise it to when anyone goes through, and especially that he needs to be calm around your small son (glad he is OK! - it must have been very frightening for both of you). I think you were very wise not to blame the dog, by the way - you don't want Mannie to be fearful around your son, just careful!


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

You need to apply training daily. If he is rushing everyone - he's been allowed to do this, and I am sure not purposefully. You can even buy DVD's and free training websites online to help aid in getting Manning settled down. If I recall he is still young, but you should address it now.

Glad your son is ok

Also - are you still breeding him?


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## shalynn (Mar 18, 2010)

Mannie is still young he just turned one on the 19th of this month, i was planning on enrolling him in an obedience class in july but as of right now the way i was going to pay fell throught so im hoping if i can get some business i will be able to afford it. As for his breeding im only wanting to do it once, and thats IF i can even find a bitch. Standard poodles are REALLY hard to find around here.......please nobody bash me again about breeding him, i did take what everyone else said about how he's not breeding standards but in my eyes hes a good dog and i honestly believe he will produce good pups. And i dont plan on breeding more than the once. Im am really greatful for everyone advise and concerns, it means alot to me, and i will be looking up obedience training today. thank you all again. =)


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## Purley (May 21, 2010)

You can practice NILIF - nothing in life is free. Probably you should have been doing this from day one.

The dog doesn't get anything unless he works for it. As someone said "wait" is a good word. He doesn't get to go out the door until he sits and waits. You will have to put him on a leash to teach him. He doesn't get to eat his food until he sits and waits. The humans are first. The humans go down the steps first, the humans go up the steps first. The humans include little humans too!

You can Google NILIF. You will find lots of sites.

If its your dog, then its YOUR responsibility to train him and teach him to be careful. Why you have waited until he is a year old is beyond me. 

So you don't want bashing for breeding him. OK. But there are thousands and thousands of unwanted dogs in the world. I don't think adding to the number of dogs being born unless the dog is of top quality in every way - is what a responsible person would do. Enough said.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Heres a start:

How To Train A Dog, dog training tips and techniques for home based dog trainers

Dog Training - Dog Obedience Training - Dog Behavior Training Books

Nothing in Life is Free

This is not bashing, just something I feel obligated to say. 

If you do not have Mannie trained by a year old - there are two problems, one, he seems like he might not have the right temperament. And two, most reputable breeders are pretty good at dog training, as they do a great deal of this with a pack of pups for 8-12 weeks. Just food for thought.

I know you want to get him properly trained for his sake and your children so please commit to some daily training of come, sit, sit and stay, heel, down, leave it, off......I would do at least 10-15 minutes a day and get Mannie on a leash too, all the time in the house - this will stop the charging and allow you to do a quick correction.


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## Purley (May 21, 2010)

I am not sure if this comes under the heading of "bashing" but there seems to be a pattern of irresponsibility here!


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

My 2 cents, again not bashing anyone!

I have a year old miniature and only recently managed to get him into a formal obedience class (I had time constraints and there was a waiting list for the late class).

In spite of that, we had done so much work at home that he spent 2 weeks in beginner obedience then got promoted to intermediate.

It is SO easy to do five to ten minutes a day, just on very basic commands if you haven't trained a dog before.

Take him out to play ball, and in between throwing the ball, do a couple of sits and downs, then play with him. Graduate to a few short stays. You have to take the dog out, so might as well spend a few minutes working on 'wait' before you snap on the leash and take him for a walk. When you are preparing his dinner, put him on a down-stay on his mat. 

Sometimes, we humans make things too complicated! Training doesn't have to be a dedicated hour every day, especially when you are busy. You can look for training opportunities in the margins.

Good luck with your guy; I'm finding training my poodle a real joy. I've never had one learn so quickly.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Purley said:


> I am not sure if this comes under the heading of "bashing" but there seems to be a pattern of irresponsibility here!


Not in my book. It's a very good observation and one I agree with - and hopefully the right choices will made to NOT breed a dog that now, may not even have the correct temperament let alone the other issues discussed in a thread a while back. 

Ikes - trying NOT TO BEAT A DEAD HORSE~~:doh:

OP - Please understand it is very hard for some of us that want to help if we can  but to not speak up especailly when plans are to breed a dog "just cuz" - :smow:


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Not bashing... just wondering if complete health testing will be done on the prospective breeding dogs? That is sooooo important in this breed, and should not be "optional"!


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

i adore my dog. she's absolutely the sweetest bestest most wonderful and pretty standard poodle i've ever seen! and she has full akc registration.

and she was spayed yesterday. There are enough breeders out there working to make the best spoos and it's okay if temperance's line dies with her. it's all okay.
i also have 2 akc registered cairns and they are spayed/neutered too. 

as to the behavior w/ your spoo & your child. starting right now since you can't go back to 6 weeks or however old the pup was when you got him he needs to be reminded that he is not the alpha. dogs always wait til humans go through the door. 

i'd start training hard core now. on leash. wait til his turn, he has to earn everything.


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

:doh:


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## Purley (May 21, 2010)

My agility trainer has a very good policy -- the dog can do NOTHING wrong. If the dog makes a mistake - its the TRAINER'S FAULT. 

So, if your dog knocks your child down the steps -- its YOUR fault for either not training the dog properly and/or not watching the dog when you know it hasn't been trained properly.


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

cbrand said:


> *Mannie*
> Cherry Eye... this eye issue can be fixed, but it is considered to be genetic
> Mismarked (disqualifying fault in AKC)
> Flat feet
> ...












this is Mannie.. and you would still continue to breed from him :O ???


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## Purley (May 21, 2010)

I think you know the answer from the majority of people on here. 

I absolutely LOVE my dogs. I can't give any poodle comments because I don't have mine until later this month. My puppy's parents are both Canadian Champions but I will get her spayed at six months. 

But - my older Shih-tzus father was the top Shih-tzu in Canada in 2003. His mother was a Canadian Kennel Club champion. The breeder was considering keeping Sam for show but as he grew his colour marking was only on one side. So I got him. Would I consider breeding him - no way. 

Tyson - well I love Tyson and he is my agility dog. His father was a really nice Canadian Kennel Club champion. He is a wonderful pet but has terrible conformation. I always get my dogs fixed at six months. 

Being a wonderful pet does not qualify a dog to reproduce.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Training will help... buy a good book and start doing 10- or 15-minute sessions a day. Also, I second the suggestion of keeping him on a leash when your son is not right there with you. My father-in-law tethered his spoo in the house (and other people's homes) until 18 months... 1 year old is still young (mentally), but the dog is big, so this can cause trouble as you found out. 

Also, neutering *may* calm him down some. It couldn't hurt. Please don't breed this dog. We are not bashing when we say this, but coming from a place of good intentions.


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

This has been bothering me since I read it hours ago. If you take the dog completely out of the equation, a 3yr old child was left unsupervised near an open door that led to concrete steps! That just seem irresponsible to me. It does sound like the dog needs more training but lack of supervision is what led to this. Rule #1 of dog ownership is "never leave a young child and dog together unsupervised." I would also like to point out that most dog bites come from young, unneutered males.

And what happened to the female you had when you first joined?


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

shalynn said:


> Yesterday mannie, my 3 year old son and i were at my moms and i was in the back room painting while my son was in the livingroom with 3 adults


She said he did leave him with adults - the adults should have been supervising, IMO and they would have gotten an earful from me! :rolffleyes:

I was wondering how the female was doing also. Where is her training at? If the same as Mannie you may need to get them into a class or some private sessions - there are deals out there.

Also, you may want to crate him/ex pens whatever it takes to confine him - it could have been a lot worse for your son.


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## Karma'sACat (Jun 1, 2010)

A training class isn't necessary to teach manners. I started with Lola the minute I picked her up and brought her in the house (she was left in my front yard at 5-6 weeks). She was taught to sit for her food in a week. She was taught that she is to sit calmly by the door until released to go out by me. She was taught to lay down when people came to the door and not bark and jump and act like a wild child. We live by NILIF in this house.
I'm sorry to be blunt, but an untrained dog with a small child is a ticking time bomb. You left him with adults who didn't stop him from opening a door and falling down the stairs. Whose to stay they would stop him from pulling your dog's ears, tail, sitting on him, or otherwise annoying/possibly hurting him? Even the most patient dog has a limit and if your son ignores vocal warnings (growls) or it is trained out of him, he will get snapped at and possibly bit.
I also have to ask, if you don't have the money for an essential training class, how do you have the money to breed? Health testing is expensive. And why are you wanting to breed a dog of questionable temperament? Forget breeding, work on making your dog a well behaved pet first.


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

Training - I LOVE the "wait" command. It has worked WONDERS with both my dogs. Before walking through a door way, have Mannie behind you, walk through the door way. If Mannie goes to follow you, body block him and say "wait". Make him wait for 15 seconds and then say "okay" and let him through. Practice that at every door way, stairway, whatever, increasing the time he has to wait. 



I doubt you'll read this, but I'll give it a shot.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT BREED HIM!!!! No responsible breeder would use Mannie as a stud, which means you'll be breeding to another poor quality/out of standard poodle. Two poor quality/out of standard poodles WILL NOT produce good quality/in standard poodles. Come on....not rocket science!! If you care about the poodle as a breed, if you care about dogs at all, you would not breed Mannie.


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Can somebody just please shoot me and end my misery :motz:

I know that there are volunteers LMAO - I would gladly NOT be in this crazy world - just DO IT !!!!! PLEEEEAAAASSEEEE :faint2:


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

wishpoo said:


> Can somebody just please shoot me and end my misery :motz:
> 
> I know that there are volunteers LMAO - I would gladly NOT be in this crazy world - just DO IT !!!!! PLEEEEAAAASSEEEE :faint2:


No !! 

You can come escape from it all and live with us in NZ!!


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

jak said:


> No !!
> 
> You can come escape from it all and live with us in NZ!!


hahahaha, yes!!! We have plenty of brick walls to bash your head against here too. Though you might have to get in line..... :doh:


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## shalynn (Mar 18, 2010)

First off i would like to say thank you to those who have givien me the advise on how to correct this behavior. To all the others im not even going to waist my time and say what i want cause its not worth it, we dont see eye to eye and thats fine but all in all i think its stupid how bad things got when all i was doing is asking for advise and i got more crap than advise, again thank you to those who did offer advise, im really greatfull, all others bugger off


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

We did give you advice... Not to breed your poor example of a standard poodle... especially now you tell us he has temperament issues... what will it be next ?


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## yigcenuren (May 3, 2009)

jak said:


> We did give you advice... Not to breed your poor example of a standard poodle... especially now you tell us he has temperament issues... what will it be next ?


I think this particular incident is less a temperament issue than a training issue. The minute you bring any dog into your life, whether it's an 8 week old puppy or a 5 year old rescue, training should be done. All dogs want and NEED guidance and direction and if they don't get it from you they will start making up their own rules or try to become pack leader.
Basic training is not rocket science and there are many excellent books out there that can teach you how to teach your dog. If finances are an issue the public library is a great resource and has many books on the subject. Waiting for a training class is just waiting for a REALLY tragic accident to happen and is no excuse to not at least START training your dog.
There have been some wonderful suggestions on this thread for teaching your dog out of this behavior. Please start IMMEDIATELY!!!

And if you could hear your son crying while you were in a back room, where the h**l were the other 'adults'???!!!! If it were my kid I'd have torn a stip off of them for not watching him properly. Hope they're not going to be your regular babysitters.

One last thing, I know everyone here has their heels dug in about this breeding thing, but you know what? If they didn't give a damm about you or your poodle they wouldn't say anything about what you are thinking of doing. True friends and people who honestly care, point out things we don't want to hear as well as things we do. But ultimately it is YOUR decision.


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## cheryl4237 (May 19, 2010)

I realize that this will probably put me up on the firing wall, but here goes...
First off, this women has been nothing if not polite in all her posts, and seems sincere in her requests for advice. Many of the reply posts were very helpful, and civil, while others were judgmental and snippy. I think we all need to take a step back, and try to be helpful and kind when someone asks for advice, instead of assuming the worst. Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt. Non of us, including me, have any idea how much training she has given Mannie, because no one bothered to ask her. She has stated that he hasn't been to classes, but whose to say she hasn't worked with him to some extent at home? I know it's hard not to become jaded when it comes to spay/neutering pets. Before the kids, I worked at the APA, and its hard seeing the unwanted dogs, knowing most of them won't be adopted. I am 100% for altering pets, but that horse got a serious beating on another thread, and shouldn't have been brought up on this one. Second, there have been several posts about how Mannie probably has a "questionable" temperament. Come on! Racing his people to the top of the stairs is a TRAINING issue, that alone does not make him an ill tempered dog, and it's presumptuous to imply that it does. I don't think anyone on this forum, (me included) can honestly say that their dogs, no matter how well trained they may be, do not have at least ONE obedience issue that needs work! And third, Harley Chik, bringing her parenting into question was disgusting. Shame on you.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

First of all I can agree with a couple things you said



cheryl4237 said:


> Non of us, including me, have any idea how much training she has given Mannie, because no one bothered to ask her.
> 
> Anyone who purchases a dog - should do some research prior to getting the dog, come on.....:rolffleyes: - find a way to train the dog, you do not have to do obedience training with someone outside the home, you do not need to buy pricey training vids either - you can go to the local FREE Library and get a dog training book. AND she has discussed training in previous threads, you are new so therefore you didn't know/
> 
> ...



Agree also on this. 

Our goal here is to learn and educate ourselves and others as we can - she has bred dogs, and she has stated she is backyard breader :scared:as well. I have not met a breeder who does not have some pretty strong training skills. 

Yes some people were ugly some gave good advice, and some of us are biting our tongues but still trying to discourage her from breeding a spoo not health tested, no parent history, and a questionable temperement. This thread is a perfect example.


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## cheryl4237 (May 19, 2010)

I admit I haven't read any past threads concerning temperament, so I apologize for not being well informed on that And I agree with you, training does not have to cost alot. Just some treats and a good book will get you started. We have always home trained our dogs. I think obedience classes are geared more for training owners on dog training, rather that the dogs themselves. There is alot to be said for "hands on" instruction though


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

I just think that breeding that dog she has, of that quality, is cruel. The other stuff about training has already been said, so I will not elaborate about it.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

cheryl4237 said:


> I admit I haven't read any past threads concerning temperament, so I apologize for not being well informed on that And I agree with you, training does not have to cost alot. Just some treats and a good book will get you started. We have always home trained our dogs. I think obedience classes are geared more for training owners on dog training, rather that the dogs themselves. There is alot to be said for "hands on" instruction though


_I have to agree with you Cheryl. A good book, treats and committed time for the training can be the cheapest way to go. The longest time we were to train each day was 20 minutes. But, I am one of those people who needed to take a class because I didn't know how to handle my dog and I do a lot better with instruction as I learn best by 'show me'. Billy isn't a problem dog in any way, but because I did it because I want to show him eventually in obedience. But the end result is the same. A well trained dog that you can trust and feel comfortable around._


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## shalynn (Mar 18, 2010)

See this is the reason i hardly post here, just about everytime i do i get this crap. Like i said in my last post i was just looking for advise on a behavior and thats all why the hell would you guys think i want to listen to your bashing crap again? Ive read it all before! Im not stupid and yet i do know i may not be as experienced as some of you on here but that dont give any of you the right to knock me or my dog down like some of you have. The pic that one of you posted of mannie i'll admitt he didnt look good at all, but that was due to his momm's poor grooming experience, now that hes groomed better he looks a hell of a lot better, so i would appreciate it if you would stop putting him down. To the lady who defended me thank you so much, it was so kind of you to put yourself out in the firing range to say what you did. Mannie is not a bad dog, he is very smart and lovable, yes he rushes to the door but at least hes not aggressive and yea my kids are rough, my som holds his tail (even after i get on to him) or tryed to climb on him but he is still so lovable to them. I will admit i have not spent a certain amount of time training him but with the little time i have spent he does know how to sit stay lay down, he knows if im putting his leash on and off he must sit before i will put it on. and most of the time all i have to do is snap my fingers and he will sit stay or lay down without me evenhaving to say a word. So with all this i hope you guys can stop with your crap, if you dont have advise for me about his rushing behavior then just dont post. thank you again to those who have been kind enough to help me out, i have been working on him with this and he is doing a little better, thank you =)


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

all in all the advice you were given on both subjects was sound good advice keep the dog tethered until it learns how to behave


I don't think all of the posts were meant in anyway to bash you or your dog...and as far as I can tell they weren't "bashing" your dog

Cherry Eye

please don't take this the wrong way I'm just asking a question...in the other thread you mentioned wanting to breed so low income families can have a purebred dog, but the cost of fixing cherry eye or entropion or any other genetic disease is astronomical compared to what these "low income" people are making 
so why is it better for said people to buy a dog cheap only to have to put it down or give it up because they aren't able to afford its vet bills?

can we see a new photo of Mannie? maybe his cherry eye cleared itself up


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## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

A poodle is not an ideal dog for families of low income. Unless, of course, one of the family members is a groomer.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Marian said:


> A poodle is not an ideal dog for families of low income. Unless, of course, one of the family members is a groomer.


or they're able to do their own grooming


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## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

Keithsomething said:


> or they're able to do their own grooming


That's what I said. A groomer doesn't have to be a professional to be called a groomer. If you're able to groom your own dog, you are a groomer. Right?


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## shalynn (Mar 18, 2010)

I cant get really good pics of him cause im using my phone for pics but here are a few from today, sorry but i dont bother with having him do the stack position, theres no point in it to me since i have no plans on showing him.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

What happened to the female you rescued that you were going to breed him too?


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

facepalm


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

shaylynn, 
i am sure your boy is a fine dog. he looks sweet and with some training will be a great dog. i have dogs. i have kids. i have dogs that get excited and ump around kids and could knock them down. i'm actively training them to stop that.
currently my lab x is on the trampoline wanting to jump with the kids. and she is not allowed to because the kids could get hurt if she landed on one.

your boy is a fine dog, BUT he is not good breeding stock. just because someone has full registration, doesn't mean they need to continue the line. 

you said you've raised gsd. i had a gsd from a very good line and had full registration on him. he had xrays at a young age (he was a 9 month old puppy) and it showed that he was predisposed for arthritis in the elbows. i called my breeder. he spayed his bitch because he didn't want to carry that on. I never bred that solid black gorgeous shepherd. I didn't want to also chance that being carried on.

some dogs, even though we love them and think they are amazing, just don't need to be breeding stock.

and it's okay. your dog does have some faults that concern people being carried on. if you love the breed, you don't want those faults continued. that's all.

i adore my dog, temperance. she's really pretty & way back has champion lines. and she's spayed as of last week. and it's okay.


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## shalynn (Mar 18, 2010)

My landlord can and told me i could only have one dog so i either had to rehome one or move, so i found her a home out of state with some people who own a grooming shop and another poodle.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_I'm sorry to hear that you had to re-home your female.

Do you have a bitch lined up for him to breed to, Shalynn? He sounds like a dog that you are very happy with and love a great deal and that is wonderful for you, him and your family. Every dog deserves a loving, forever home. And, it sounds like you are progressing with his training; which is great too.

I would really be concerned about passing on some of the faults he has though. He looks much better in his new photos but his faults are quite obvious and will definitely pass down to the puppies he would produce. His feet turn out badly in the back and a bit in the front. This has to affect his gait. And he does have others as well.

Did you have him tested for all of the poodle diseases? It's really expensive to have all the testing done; the OFA hips is $400 alone. It really is important to be sure that he is not passing on something serious to his offspring. You wouldn't want to put puppies through bad health experiences that will lower the quality of its life or even cause an early death and be a huge burden on their new families.

It is really kind of you to want to breed pups that lower income people can afford and say that they have an AKC poodle. However, there is a lot more to consider than that. These dogs are not cheap to maintain. They need a lot of time, training, socialization and grooming is an absolute must. I have had to buy all of the grooming equipment for mine and I could never have done that if we were a lower income family. And, if your boy produces pups with his problems, the new pup owners are going to have to make some very difficult and painful decisions. Vet bills are unbelievably high just for regular maintenance.

I would also like to mention that breeding/whelping, vetting pups is quite expensive and you need to have the time to put into socializing, potty training, getting them used to used to being clipped and brushed out and crate training all those little ones.

After doing all of this, you may not find that you are able to sell the pups as cheaply as you might be thinking unless you are willing to take a loss on them.

Because of his conformation faults, you are not likely to find a good bitch to breed him too. So there is no possibility for even trying to breed up from there.

He is a great family pet from what you have said and improving all the time. But, it might be better if you wait until you can have a second, good quality dog to breed.

I am in no way bashing you or the dog you love. I just wanted to offer some food for thought.

I wish you the best with the training of your boy and hope that you get the rushing under control.
_


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Please leave the breeding to people who know what they're doing.


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## shalynn (Mar 18, 2010)

spoospirit said:


> _I'm sorry to hear that you had to re-home your female.
> 
> Do you have a bitch lined up for him to breed to, Shalynn? He sounds like a dog that you are very happy with and love a great deal and that is wonderful for you, him and your family. Every dog deserves a loving, forever home. And, it sounds like you are progressing with his training; which is great too.
> 
> ...


His feet actually dont turn out, he was staniding like that cause he kept trying to go and run, i had just got to my moms and he wanted to go play so he was moving around and i couldnt get him to staraighten up long enough to get a really good pic, when im at home i can get him to stand right but the lighting in the house makes for bad pics. AS for the hip testing, here its nowhere near 400 we have had our male shepherd done and it actuially was not so bad. No i dont have a bitch lined up cause im in no hurry, standards are supper hard to find around here and im not pressuring this issue, ive said yes i would like to breed him once but im not out searching and pushing this matter. Im saying that if someone with a bitch that i like would contact me then yea it would be a possibility, but im not going hunting. For everyone, i know ive said we are back yard breaders but my mom said were not so maybe i have the defination wrong. We have one stud male GSD who has had his hips tested and has been DNA"d, and then right now we have one black female, she did just have her second litter and she will only have maybe 3 more in her life then she gets fixed like our older female did, then mom just bought 3 mini daushhounds to eventually breed so i dont know if we would be classified as back yard breeders or not. Back to my boy, i dont see what flaws he has other than his cherry eye and from what i can tell hes growing out of that cause i have not seen it in weeks. I dont really know what else to say cause i know someone will have a comback to what ive just said but oh well.


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## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

Backyard Breeder Definitions (found on Google):

* A person who casually breeds purebred dogs with little or no regard to the breed standard, genetically linked defects or temperament. Glossary of Dog Terms: Babbler - Bay

* Somebody who owns and breeds dogs for the purpose of resale with out proving through showing, and health checks, that the dog is worthy of being bred. Pet Definitions | The Real Owner


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

shalynn said:


> then mom just bought 3 mini daushhounds to eventually breed so i dont know if we would be classified as back yard breeders or not.


no offense intended in this...but you would be considered a BYB because you don't do ALL the health testing, hip testing alone doesn't mean your dog should be bred you should be doing every single test involved with that breed ((I don't know whats wrong in the GSD lines to suggest testing, if its only hips that should be looked at...thats lucky I guess)) do you exhibit your dogs in an area? whether its conformation, agility, obeidence, ((would police work count in exhibiting a GSD?)) or do you at least have a desire to breed to the standard and one day exhibit your dogs?

GSD Health Problems

you should have your breeding GSD tested for all of those


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Not many reputable breeders would ever breed their bitch five times in its lifetime.. just because you're tested doesn't mean you're not a BYB breeder. Do your dogs have titles? Are they used for performance? SAR? What are you bringing to the breed to better it?

Nothing.

If anyone's ever seen me posting on the forum, they'd know that I general keep off forums with heated debates like this. This, however, is something I am going to speak my mind about. I can't speak against irresponsible breeding at work, but I can do it here, because I can't get fired from a forum.

You _think_ that Mannie would produce some good pups? Well, here's the reality: HE WONT! Your dog DOES NOT fit the breed standard, why are you so attached to your dogs testicles and the thought of baby making? Dogs that are planned for future breedings by breeders that do their homework don't have behavior problems, they don't have obvious physical faults, and they are ambassadors for the breed. They are dogs that buyers want to have puppies from.

I would never get a puppy from Mannie, even if it was a free dog.

You are being completely blind and ignorant with this, just because your dog has balls doesn't mean you need to go out and find him a lady friend. NEUTER HIM! Poodles are expensive dogs to maintain, they are not for low income families, and they are obviously not for people that are inexperienced with the breed.

Your argument is invalid. The end.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Your argument is invalid. The end.


anyone else think of the weird british lady from the weakest link with that quote? ...

YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK GOODBYE

-steps into the shadows- :wacko:


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

shalynn said:


> View attachment 10810


I am going to get back on topic of training for a minute. I notice in this pic the adult is holding Mannie back with his knee at Mannies chest and pulling up on his collar. It appears by some things you have provided that Mannie might not be trained as well as even you think. It appears - correct me if I am wrong that Mannie insists on charging and not heeling or staying.

I would HIGHLY recommend finding a few threads that cbrand has offered detailed steps on obed. training, along with the training advise that was offered here. Like her delivery or not she offers good tips. 

I would start over fresh and do no more then 15 minutes a day with him. I have 4 dogs that I did all their obedience training - it can easily be done at home. 

Have high value treats and get Mannie on a leash at all times while you are with him - this will keep him out of trouble and your child safe. And if he is not crate trained I would do this as well. He seems to be lacking boundaries.

Also be careful how you introduce things to Mannie. When you take him out and he's being yanked around because he is hard to control (like at your moms) does nothing for him there must be positive reinforcement. He will not grow unless he trusts his owners. 

You have some work to do and hopefully you can get him trained sooner than later or it could develop into really serious issues.


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Haha! 
You are awesome Fluffyspoos !! I just love your ability to find a completely random picture to fit a situation!!!
And you reply was nice 

Lol...

If you are having trouble with Mannie's behaviour..
How in the heck do you think you will be able to socialize puppies...

:scared::scared::scared:


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## Birdie (Jun 28, 2009)

jak said:


> If you are having trouble with Mannie's behaviour..
> How in the heck do you think you will be able to socialize puppies...


That's exactly what I was thinking... :\


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

> That's exactly what I was thinking... :\


Oh well... I decided that I will from now on "just be thinking" and not commenting in *any* thread LMAO in general. It is so much easier that way .


I have so much fun :nod:


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## Rocketagility (Apr 27, 2010)

I am not bashing, but I would never buy a standard from you. First you never showed your dog to championship, you have no working titles on your dog and you have no health tests done three huge red flags. Mannie I am sure to you is an awesome dog and probably way to smart for you, so you had better start listening and start doing the training required to get Mannie trained or in about a year or less you will go away and put your dog up for adoption or have him put down. Also chances are your son will get hurt again and it won’t be the dogs fault. Just so you know most standards mature at 3 years of age start training your dog every day, I tell people to use the time commercials are on to train. You say you are not a stupid person, hmmm Ok prove it buy a show poodle and get it from a reputable breeder and start with a good dog. Then find a mentor and learn everything you can there are mentors on this forum that have given you hard to swallow but very good advice, please listen to them. No one wants to poo poo your dreams they want to improve the breed and protect it. What really is your reason you want to breed your dog? Do you have homes for the potential 8-13 puppies or will you be selling them out of the trunk of your car at Wal-Mart?


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

wishpoo said:


> Oh well... I decided that I will from now on "just be thinking" and not commenting in *any* thread LMAO in general. It is so much easier that way .
> 
> 
> I have so much fun :nod:


haha !! Your way too awesome wishpoo


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## shalynn (Mar 18, 2010)

Rocketagility said:


> I am not bashing, but I would never buy a standard from you. First you never showed your dog to championship, you have no working titles on your dog and you have no health tests done three huge red flags. Mannie I am sure to you is an awesome dog and probably way to smart for you, so you had better start listening and start doing the training required to get Mannie trained or in about a year or less you will go away and put your dog up for adoption or have him put down. Also chances are your son will get hurt again and it won’t be the dogs fault. Just so you know most standards mature at 3 years of age start training your dog every day, I tell people to use the time commercials are on to train. You say you are not a stupid person, hmmm Ok prove it buy a show poodle and get it from a reputable breeder and start with a good dog. Then find a mentor and learn everything you can there are mentors on this forum that have given you hard to swallow but very good advice, please listen to them. No one wants to poo poo your dreams they want to improve the breed and protect it. What really is your reason you want to breed your dog? Do you have homes for the potential 8-13 puppies or will you be selling them out of the trunk of your car at Wal-Mart?


i have been nice up to now but i think you *****moderated*****


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

It's obvious we can't change the OP's mind. Most of us are sound, intelligent people, and we know that the breeding is a horrible idea.

I would not buy a standard from that breeding, I wouldn't accept a free dog from that breeding. 

I think you are lying about your reasons for breeding..and personally believe you just want some pocket change..even if it means hurting a wonderful breed to do it. Low income families can get a standard in rescue if that's what they want. They will still end up with hefty vet bills because of it.

Unfortunately the OP isn't the only one doing this...I see it everywhere all over craigslist. It really makes me sick. I think you should spend the time doing training and proper socialization with your dog before you even consider breeding. 

Many of his behavior issues could probably be solved by having him fixed. Of course, you care more about breeding rather than actually helping your boy. So, i'm sure that will never be considered.

Everything about this seems irresponsible to me. I feel sorry for your dog.


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## puppylove (Aug 9, 2009)

Think there's no standards that need to be rescued? This is my newest foster, given up by a family that could no longer afford him. Right now he's completely shell-shocked and probably wonders where his family is. If you could only see how truly unhappy he is; your heart would break.


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## *tina* (Jan 3, 2010)

The poor guy! He looks so sad. He needs some loves!


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

puppylove said:


> Think there's no standards that need to be rescued? This is my newest foster, given up by a family that could no longer afford him. Right now he's completely shell-shocked and probably wonders where his family is. If you could only see how truly unhappy he is; your heart would break.


Bless you for taking him in! We've done spoo foster in the past and I'd love to do it again if we ever get the opportunity! I can't wait until you can show us some pictures of him with his tail up and a happy expression on his face! I know you can make it happen!


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_Oh, Puppylove....that poor boy! He looks completely bewildered and heartbroken. It is wonderful that there are people like you who do this type of work. You must love it and the dogs you take in dearly. kudos to you and I hope he finds his forever home soon.
_


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

That poor rescue boy just breaks my heart! Mostly because his face so reminds me of Riley, and then the way i would imagine Riley feeling if that happened to him.  Poor baby.


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## 1Jurisdiva (May 4, 2010)

Poor baby. I hope he finds a forever family quickly! I wish I could take him.


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## McSandd (Apr 30, 2010)

Oh puppylove I would take him.... if only 

Give him some love for me!!!


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

puppylove - I would love to give that boy a home. Like plumcrazy said, while he may be heartbroken and confused now, I can't wait to see an update of this boy with a big smile on his face. I'm sure Jackson will help with that 

(did Jack and Jill find a home?)


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## puppylove (Aug 9, 2009)

Thank-you all. He is sitting here in my office now. He has a MASSIVE ear infection and while he really doesn't trust me yet, getting his head rubbed is obviously heaven for him. He's been at my house for two days now and has hardly eaten. He's just so sweet yet so bewildered. He was probably a breeder (neutering is Monday) and doesn't seem to be much socialized - he knows no commands. He's a lovely dog and I'm sure his lucky day is just ahead.

Jack and Jill found a wonderful home (so good that I'm a little jealous that I'm not a cute little poodle). We missed them terribly for about 3 days but there is a never ending stream of dogs that need fostering. Today I will be getting a Havanese.


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