# Sticky  Poodle Adolescence - Support Group



## PeggyTheParti

Tips? Tricks? Commiseration? Bring it on!

I wasn't expecting it quite so soon, but Peggy's 26th week has brought us a whole new level of dog. Eeek! It kicked off with the worst puppy class we've ever had. Usually after a rocky start, she settles right in. But she was wild-eyed from the first minute right through to the last. Even our trainer's assistant, who's typically Peggy's biggest fan, stepped back with a "Whoa!"

Yes, there's positive progress. She snoozed on the couch with me for a full 20 minutes the other night. That's new! But mostly it feels like the bond we've worked so hard to forge with her is in tatters. A typical teen—she just doesn't think we're all that exciting anymore! And the rest of the world....well.....it's maybe a bit TOO exciting.

My husband came home from an especially challenging walk with her this afternoon and had to go right back out by himself to clear his head and regroup. And just now, as I was typing this, I nearly had a heart attack as she erupted into a fit of wild barking and growling. The trigger? The heat clicked on and a plastic bag floated off the counter and onto the floor. But that's nothing compared to reflections in dark windows.... Oh the drama.

I'd love to hear from anyone else who's navigating (or has navigated) this trying period. I've scoured the forum for other threads on the topic, but links to any particularly good ones would also be appreciated.


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## Mfmst

What a great idea, and I’m here to support, although my Spoo is thankfully five. He went from wild teen, to college frat boy! Aim for poodle perfect at two and if you have a late bloomer like Buck, three is when you see the light. You just to have faith, patience and a sense of humor and keep plugging away on training. There will eventually be a day with no mistakes. Poodles may be slow to mature, but the bright side is they stay young at heart for most of their days.


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## PeggyTheParti

Mfmst said:


> What a great idea, and I’m here to support, although my Spoo is thankfully five. He went from wild teen, to college frat boy! Aim for poodle perfect at two and if you have a late bloomer like Buck, three is when you see the light. You just to have faith, patience and a sense of humor and keep plugging away on training. There will eventually be a day with no mistakes. Poodles may be slow to mature, but the bright side is they stay young at heart for most of their days.


I appreciate that so much! It's hard not to compare her to other dogs in class. The difference between breeds is really quite extraordinary. We have a few herding breeds and they only have eyes for their handlers. Meanwhile Peggy's knocking down fences to say hi to everyone. And then trying to knock them down, too!

I'll keep my eyes on the poodle prize ? My mini blossomed at 2 and then truly bloomed at 3.


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## Skylar

Be thankful you enjoyed that sweet, eager poodle puppy before the teen years kicked in. 

I got Babykins when she was almost a year old and definitely in the wild teenage years. I would say I started to see her settle down around three.

Just keep plugging away and you will see progress. Don’t compare your dog to others, they are all different. I did find it helpful to train a little every day, and vary where you train, including outside, in a park, inside a store that allows dogs etc.


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## PeggyTheParti

Skylar said:


> Be thankful you enjoyed that sweet, eager poodle puppy before the teen years kicked in.
> 
> I got Babykins when she was almost a year old and definitely in the wild teenage years. I would say I started to see her settle down around three.
> 
> Just keep plugging away and you will see progress. Don’t compare your dog to others, they are all different. I did find it helpful to train a little every day, and vary where you train, including outside, in a park, inside a store that allows dogs etc.


Our foster GSD was well into adolescence when we got her, and while I absolutely adored her, my first-time-puppy-owner husband felt very overwhelmed. He definitely needed to ease into that stage with a puppy he'd grown with.

And the plugging away is definitely key. Thank you for the reminder. It's tempting to leave her at home so we can get a break, especially during evening outings when she gets easily spooked. But that's not going to serve her (or us) well in the long-term. 

This evening I realized she'd been going going going since 6:30am without a good uninterrupted nap, so I just tucked her into her crate with a kong and some frozen banana and she's out like a light. I'm sure her overtiredness was contributing to her crazies. Easy to forget they're still babies when they're suddenly running around in giant bodies.


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## Carolinek

Great thread- I’ve enjoyed watching Peggy grow up here.

Gracie will be a year old on 12/1 and we’ve had our ups and downs. She was such a good puppy, until eight months or so, then something flipped in her brain! I talk about it in this thread

Since then we have made progress, back in October I wrote about some progress here , and she’s continued to move forward since then. We worked a lot on short distance recalls, gradually progressing to longer distances and used a lot of high value treats. She’s pretty shameless when it comes to food, which helps! 

We also did a lot of impulse control, working on leave it and progressively longer stays. She’s still very bratty at times but is doing much better in those areas.

But oy, the chewing! She has destroyed the TV remote, a pair of eyeglasses, the corner of my IPad cover, a couple hair clips....and that’s just the last couple weeks. Anything that has my scent on it is fair game.

And she’s bratty toward the other dogs, operates under the principle that everything belongs to her. She will swoop in and take a toy or chewie right from Max or Lily- and they let her. Lily will grumble a little bit but totally give up the resource. Misty, OTOH, puts her in her place, and will not surrender, which is much needed. So, she just doesn’t bother Misty, but Iwish the others would correct her. 

So that is my sweet, bratty girl! Perseverance and consistency are the keys, but easier said than done.


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## Mufar42

LOL, boy this board has been a saver. I have vented many a time since Renn came into my life. He spooked at a lot of things and like to bark at people or other dogs and would leap I'm guessing 4 ft in the air during a walk when he got excited over something. Thankfully he is much much better now. But there are times. Yesterday I threw a ball for him he caught it mid air by leaping at least 3ft up. He absolutely loves my daughters now and when one comes in or wakes he gets especially excited and will try and do his puppy leap in the air to get to her. I calm him down as I am afraid he will hurt himself and since I have mostly wood n tile the floors can be especially slippery for him. You work a lot with Peggy so I am sure she will settle down. Renn is a late bloomer, he will be 2 Dec 2nd. and he now is very willing to work with with me. He loves playing outback with me.


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## Vita

PeggyTheParti said:


> ... And just now, as I was typing this, I nearly had a heart attack as she erupted into a fit of wild barking and growling. The trigger? The heat clicked on and a plastic bag floated off the counter and onto the floor. But that's nothing compared to reflections in dark windows.... Oh the drama...



That's actually pretty funny. 

"OMG! Mom! Did you hear that! And Mom, did you see that! An inanimate object is flying on it's own! Like a bird! A clicking bird! But it's a bag! OMG, Mom, what if other things start clicking and flying around? I don't trust that microwave either, it could attack us! Are we safe? Mom! Are you listening to me?!? I'll bark louder."

And about school... "Mom, the teacher doesn't want me to have fun! Just blah blah blah, sit still, lie down, don't look at my friends, what's up with that? He gets to look at you! You all get to talk! Why I can't I do that with my friends? It's not fair! Girls just wanna have fun. Don't get mad at me, it's the teacher. And no I don't wanna do homework... Oh look! A squirrel!"

Getting into Peggy's head and seeing the world from her point of view will give you many moments of sheer comedy. Your reactions to her may change from being tense to patience and laughing at her and casually saying the same kind of things you might say a kid.

"Yeah, school has challenges, just get with the program. You'll figure it out." That attitude will keep you calm and confident, and Peggy will feel your easy going manner. If you're tense and reactive, she'll match it.

"Oooh! I caught the flying bag! Let's play with it!" and the tug of war game is on! She's gone from panic to fun by seeing you're not scared either, which she might otherwise think if you're tense, not realizing you're tense over her reaction rather than the bag.

Or, "Peggy, I heard you acted a fool on your walk. We're gonna rehearse this if it takes ten times getting out of the door or 20 feet from the house and going back inside until you understand you can't go around dragging either of us down the street."


One of the dog trainers I like is *Dog Training by Kikopup* YouTube channel. Here's a video that not only address how to stop barking at the door, which may not be a problem so far, but how to work with other trigger behaviors and how to eliminate them. There are many fine dog trainers and videos which other members can share.


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## SamieNorman

Keep patient!! Norman is a teenage hormonal mess... and I am his FAVORITE toy but I can be easily ignored. He is doing this thing where if I go "missing" for longer than 30 seconds he hunts for me. I'm talking nose to the ground RUNNING around like a mad man. When he finds me, all hell breaks loose. He jumps on me, bites all over my arms, licks me, runs in circles around me, jumps on the furniture and back to jumping all over me. But after this??? I am old news!! Lol!! He has periods of ignoring me and chooses my mother over me. Which I find very funny. Total teenage drama!! If he has to put his harness on to go outside he will either run away, try and bite the harness, or drop to the ground and act like he's invisible.. But the moment I click the harness on hes so happy and running to the door to go play!! Like what?? So dramatic!!

Be patient with Peggy. It'll be a minute but use this time as training for you and her. I cannot even tell you the amount of things Norman hides from me now (socks, shoes, bras). AND we have (drum roll please) 2 tables, 4 couches, 1 ottoman, 2 stairs, 1 corner of floor boards, 2 wooden window blinds, 3 hair clips, 1 headphone set, 2 eye-glasses, 3 shoe insoles, many many socks, and many pants completely RUINED!! I know I am forgetting a lot of things. He is a wild mess. He will get scared of sounds or shadows, but he takes anger out on objects. Things have gotten a LOT better. And sharing all the things hes broken is very embarrassing for me because it makes it look like i am a bad owner, But hes a wild drama filled puppy. I share this to show you that it could always be worse!!! Peggy is just learning her emotions and how to react. She doesn't understand the sounds she hears or maybe she's in the mood to make some noise! I know Norman can be sleeping and the next minute hes barking for no reason! 

We're in this together! I am trying to navigate where he is at in his learning/development but it can be challenging. But it is all worth it in the end. If I had to go through all of the broken items again to have my wonderful happy boy, I would in a heartbeat. He is so smart, happy, and bring me joy. I wouldn't trade my Norman for anything!!!

As for tips and tricks, I do many things. Calming music. Talking to him. -/+ reinforcement and punishments. But the best thing I have tried is focusing his energy on something else. When he has the zoomies I take him outside and let him run after a ball or the leaves in the yard. Focus her barking on something else. Maybe use that to start training her to "speak" or use that to train her to "hush". Showing her the appropriate times to bark on your command.

Good luck!!!


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## Raindrops

I feel you! Misha is 8 months old now and swings wildly from perfect adorable dog to crazy monster. Thankfully he is still great with other dogs and has plenty of confidence. He approaches everything with a "How can I play with this" attitude. He has his bad habits like stealing my dirty clothes and getting into the trash. I still keep him in a pen if I can't watch him. In class he will perform perfectly until he gets bored, and then he will start zooming around like a madman (usually as soon as trainer starts watching us!). He's a bit of a whiner when he wants something he can't have, and that can be annoying. He's also _not_ out of the mouthy stage and has episodes of shark attack mode.

In regard to focus on handler, I try to remember that I'd much rather have a dog that likes strangers and other dogs than one that doesn't!


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## lily cd re

Great idea for a thread! If you look way back at some of my oldest posts here you will see evidence of some of my misadventures with Lily's earliest days and then her crazy teenage life. Honestly although I loved her from the get go I don't think I liked her very much until she was about 18 months old. Like your husband I had days where I just walked out and left the chaos behind. 

I have otld this lesson before, but it bears repeating all of that insanity actually really was of great personal help to me in balancing my tendency towards a short fuse. The more I dreaded what crazy stuff was going on with Lily and Peeves when they were young the crazier they acted. One day I almost didn't even pull in the driveway let alone want to go in the house. It was at a point when BF was home with the dogs during the day and they were usually loose when I came home. The normal thing that happened were that Lily would run up to me, jump on me like a lunatic and grab at my hands and clothes. I had many small cuts from needle teeth all the time and she ruined a number of pieces of clothing. I was at my wits end so after I parked I took a walk and did some deep breathing. I made sure my internal attitude was happy and relaxed to truly match my external body language and signals. I opened the door and Lily started to charge at me and when she was about 3 feet away a miracle happened and she stopped in her tracks, I said sit, she sat and we had a very nice and polite greeting for the first time. It took me a while to really change myself, but as I did so did Lily. Even after a hard and frustrating day if I do a little calming breathing we always have happy and polite greetings now.

As to Javelin I am not sure if it is him having a different general demeanor as a boy, just having a different personality all around or me being a more relaxed person now generally (or most likely a combination of all of those) but he has been the easiest puppy and adolescent dog. He was super easy to housebreak, has always been very willing to work at learning his basics and his tasks and is a sweet cuddle bug. If he had been a tough teenager I might have been part of a canicide/suicide news story.


Bottom line for those of you in the midst of the chaos of adolescence eventually you will see the light at the end of the tunnel and it won;t be a train coming to run you down.


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## Getting ready

I loooove this thread. I think both Noodle and my daughter are tweens (and I’m scared for the teens). 

This morning, both of them had minor meltdowns over the most routine of things. What? You’re going to work like you do every weekday? But... I miss you. Don’t you want to be with me? I’m sad. 

Last night, I was the worst mom in the world for (1) trying to help the kid with her homework and (2) getting between Noodle and a dog who was playing rough. 

Recall around any set of distractions is a joke. Even when I have chicken! 

But I do have a question. I see on here a lot, don’t make anything bad happen after a recall. But let’s say Noodle has stolen something he shouldn’t have (so many lovely things to choose from this time of year, gloves, scarves, jackets, homework, pencils etc). I can’t catch him because he is crazy crazy fast. So I have to call him. I do try to give him a treat but even chicken pales in comparison to a dirty tissue. And if he gets mouthy while we are in negotiations, I put him away. So I guess I’m tainting the recall. But not sure what else to do...


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## PeggyTheParti

Raindrops said:


> I feel you! Misha is 8 months old now and swings wildly from perfect adorable dog to crazy monster. Thankfully he is still great with other dogs and has plenty of confidence. He approaches everything with a "How can I play with this" attitude. He has his bad habits like stealing my dirty clothes and getting into the trash. I still keep him in a pen if I can't watch him. In class he will perform perfectly until he gets bored, and then he will start zooming around like a madman (usually as soon as trainer starts watching us!). He's a bit of a whiner when he wants something he can't have, and that can be annoying. He's also _not_ out of the mouthy stage and has episodes of shark attack mode.
> 
> In regard to focus on handler, I try to remember that I'd much rather have a dog that likes strangers and other dogs than one that doesn't!


"How can I play with this?"

I LOVE THAT. It's a subtle but meaningful alternative to how I've been viewing Peggy's attitude. Basically: "Is that some trouble I can get into??"

The stories we tell ourselves are powerful. If I frame Peggy as naughty instead of curious, it will impact how I interact with her, which in turn affects her behaviour.


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## PeggyTheParti

I thought about this thread on our training walk today. I gave her a nice loose leash and let her explore her heart out, praising her enthusiastically every time she checked in with me. I gave her a chance to investigate things with her nose rather than incessantly barking "LEAVE IT." And 9 times out of 10, she left it on her own. Good girl, Peggy.

Her jackpot reward was a lap around Petco. She got to sniff ferrets and meet another puppy.


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## PeggyTheParti

Mufar42 said:


> LOL, boy this board has been a saver. I have vented many a time since Renn came into my life. He spooked at a lot of things and like to bark at people or other dogs and would leap I'm guessing 4 ft in the air during a walk when he got excited over something. Thankfully he is much much better now. But there are times. Yesterday I threw a ball for him he caught it mid air by leaping at least 3ft up. He absolutely loves my daughters now and when one comes in or wakes he gets especially excited and will try and do his puppy leap in the air to get to her. I calm him down as I am afraid he will hurt himself and since I have mostly wood n tile the floors can be especially slippery for him. You work a lot with Peggy so I am sure she will settle down. Renn is a late bloomer, he will be 2 Dec 2nd. and he now is very willing to work with with me. He loves playing outback with me.


I am VERY FAMILIAR with those leaps. Today I imagined her shouting "I'm a poodle! I'm a poodle!" each time she did it, and that improved my patience a bit. I just really don't like when she does it to other people, especially when she tries to "shake" their hand (i.e. mouth it). Most people respond well, but the ones who don't tend to leave a real impression. And their feelings are totally warranted. I wouldn't want 40 lbs of strange fluff and teeth launched into my face either.


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## Mfmst

Well, my former wild child, terrible teen, frat boy seems to be on a 5 + year graduation schedule! We had a vet visit today and Buck, cleared the brochures off the receptionist’s ledge by jumping up. DH had the leash (weak link) and can you believe the receptionist thought it was cute and gave him a treat?!!! Meanwhile I’m picking outgoing mail off the floor. Grrrrr! Good news is he is very compliant and stoic for exams and jabs. Maybe we should have managed some no worries, drop in visits, during his socialization.


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## PeggyTheParti

Mfmst said:


> Well, my former wild child, terrible teen, frat boy seems to be on a 5 + year graduation schedule! We had a vet visit today and Buck, cleared the brochures off the receptionist’s ledge by jumping up. DH had the leash (weak link) and can you believe the receptionist thought it was cute and gave him a treat?!!! Meanwhile I’m picking outgoing mail off the floor. Grrrrr! Good news is he is very compliant and stoic for exams and jabs. Maybe we should have managed some no worries, drop in visits, during his socialization.


I'm so sorry for laughing! We had a similarly exuberant experience at the vet's office today. The one highlight was her impeccable sit and wait on the scale. I'll take what I can get! 

Here she is with the vet assistant, moments after getting her first rabies shot. Not a care in the world.


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## PeggyTheParti

When a girl's gotta shred, a girl's gotta shred!

Peggy had some energy to burn off, so she got her lunch today divided between a Kong Wobbler and a Tug-a-Jug. She was also given lots of paper to "recycle." So, needless to say, her pen was QUITE the mess.....but I don't think she minded one bit.

All you poodle owners doing adolescence without an x-pen, I salute you. This thing's been a lifesaver.


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## dogsavvy

My poor boy, Mr. Layne, would love to be a wild child but he has two very large friends who won't have it. He jumped up at popped his teeth near my hands & my Giant went after him. One does not snap at Mom. I had to settle her & decided to teach him a game she is quite familiar with, although at 8.5 she wouldn't dream of such foolishness now. I act a bit like a matador with a charging bull. I use my hands like the cape. They are allowed to jump up & bite at but not actually bite hands or arms (or other body parts). So if you were near my yard, you'd hear "aaahh ahh, no teeth" & the same goes for feet, "ahhh ahhh none of that, no feet". He learned very quickly that the game ends if he breaks the rules. So he runs circles around me & we play charging bull. What's so cute is now that we've played the game a few times he'll come up & bump me to start the game but ever so often he stops & has to have some lovin'. Those big love-filled eyes look at me like, "did I get it right? Did I do good?" LOL So he has an outlet for the crazies. I have a small ball that's made like a basket ball but it's smaller. I am hoping I can get him to play something like soccer poodle style  

But the one thing that I find helpful with the teenage shenanigans is to find an outlet to help them be crazy. I also put an end to the game on command. I say things like, "alright, that's enough" & head for the house. It took two times of this for him to get it & today he asked for hugs & love rather than trying to push for more "bullfighting". This game isn't for everyone especially if your pup doesn't have a good off switch but every youngster has something that you can do that helps them with the crazy. For my Giant it was a stick. I'd get 2-3 sticks & would throw one. She would run & attack it, run like a mad thing & just before the fun would fade, I'd show her the next stick. She'd drop the old one & run like mad to attack the next one. For my Collie she was a little easier. Just go out in the yard & walk & she would zoom around. She also loves to retrieve so I had her learn that I would NOT throw unless she sat quietly then I'd throw it. Then I taught her to release on command. This put a point & usefulness to the game. The Collie needs purpose to what she does or she's out. Even as a pup. My Dobermans were pretty easy back in the day as they would run & you could play 'get yer butt' with them (act like you were going to grab their rumps as they run by). The Malinois was my most challenging as she could do ten things before I could tell her to get out of the first thing. But there's always something you can do. For that dog, thankfully I lived on a big farm so I could just work with her even as a small pup doing farm stuff & agility in the woods. But the point is the antidote - at least at my house - for the teen crazies is finding something that works the vinegar out of them so they can be sweet & pay attention again. I love brain games for dogs but they have to burn off the crazies.


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## Raindrops

PeggyTheParti said:


> When a girl's gotta shred, a girl's gotta shred!
> 
> Peggy had some energy to burn off, so she got her lunch today divided between a Kong Wobbler and a Tug-a-Jug. She was also given lots of paper to "recycle." So, needless to say, her pen was QUITE the mess.....but I don't think she minded one bit.
> 
> All you poodle owners doing adolescence without an x-pen, I salute you. This thing's been a lifesaver.


HA! No way. I would not manage without an x pen. I think poodles are good at teaching us how to find enjoyment from the most mundane things. Like discovering how many pieces a receipt can be shredded into. _Hint: It's a lot more than you think!_

Last time Misha was at the vet he peed on the reception counter and I was mortified.


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## PeggyTheParti

dogsavvy, you're so right! Rather than fighting natural behaviours, it's really helpful to give them an outlet. That's why Peggy's x-pen looks like a garbage dump some days. Shredding, snuffling, chewing, digging, burying....she does it all in there.

And then it's outside for the zoomies! She tucks her tail and GOES.


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## PeggyTheParti

Raindrops said:


> Last time Misha was at the vet he peed on the reception counter and I was mortified.


Ha! That's a pretty good one! I'm sure Peggy will find a way to mortify me one of these days.

My last little dog Gracie accomplished that quite efficiently by *humping* my brand new teensy tiny baby niece while everyone was gathered round, cooing and oohing and ahhing.

My role as the kinda weird aunt was made official that day


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## For Want of Poodle

Can I join this support group? At almost 12 months, Annie finds new ways to be a problem child faster than I can find ways to solve problems. And i am so glad to hear other people let their dogs be their shredders too

PeggytheParti - the trainer I went to told me that puppies that were easy before adolescence are the worst in adolescence (and vice versa), so I am hoping for your sake she is right, and for my sake... well, she's been proven right! 

Today she decided to try leash reactivity to other dogs (never happened before). I mean, to be fair, it was dark out, they were in a shadow, it's incredibly windy (which turns her into a nut at the best of times) and she sees another dog maybe once a week. So she started barking and bouncing, and pogo poodling backwards as I turned and dragged her the other direction (it's not a nice dog) to try to get her back under threshold. I gave up and turned around - and no wonder she was upset! The *bleep bleep bleep* person and dog were FOLLOWING us, and had turned the corner after us. 

I really wish I had more opportunities to let her burn off energy - tonight I put her on a retractable leash and let her dash around an empty parking lot like a 
mad fool chasing leaves, but she doesn't get to do that nearly enough. 

I envy you guys your x pens, I don't have room, but would really like to have one again!


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## For Want of Poodle

Oh! and more fun crazy adolescent story! 

I took her into a pet store recently she's gone to since she was a puppy, and she went absolutely nuts. Crying and screaming and whining - why? She heard birds, and wanted to eat them. At 4 months, she could walk in this store with perfect manners, sit next to me at a perfect sit while I paid, etc, but at 11 months? She is the loudest, most talkative, complaining dog I have ever had. And the most high pitched, by far. 

_BUT BIRDS. I wanna eat them. They are over there you are boring go away just let me eat them. I'll sit but I don't wanna sit, and I'mma gonna tell you about it. Nah nah nah, I don't wanna be quiet and YOU CANT make me. Boring!_ 

She did almost the same thing at the other (animal free) store I took her to to fit her for a coat and boots when she got bored and decided we needed to go visit the cashiers, so it's back to basics on being a good dog in public, I guess.


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## PeggyTheParti

For Want Of Poodle - Peggy's behaved that way around dogs for months! Sometimes she'll manage a calm approach, but if she doesn't get to play with the dog, it's bark-bark-pogo time!

And my husband had a similar nighttime encounter with another dog that pushed Peggy over the edge. It's hard to stay relaxed on walks when there's the chance of that happening, but I know how important it is we remain calm. Not caring what the other owner thinks helps a bit, at least for me.

But it certainly doesn't help that most of the dogs we meet launch immediately into hysterics themselves. She learned quickly, despite our best efforts, that's how one says hello. Sigh.

I'll be honest - if Peggy didn't have opportunities to run full speed in the backyard and at puppy class, it would be much much rougher. So I really feel for you and Annie. They're little athletes and they love to push the limits of their bodies. Any chance you could find some enclosed green space? Have you tried Sniff Spot?


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## PeggyTheParti

For Want of Poodle said:


> Oh! and more fun crazy adolescent story!
> 
> I took her into a pet store recently she's gone to since she was a puppy, and she went absolutely nuts. Crying and screaming and whining - why? She heard birds, and wanted to eat them. At 4 months, she could walk in this store with perfect manners, sit next to me at a perfect sit while I paid, etc, but at 11 months? She is the loudest, most talkative, complaining dog I have ever had. And the most high pitched, by far.
> 
> _BUT BIRDS. I wanna eat them. They are over there you are boring go away just let me eat them. I'll sit but I don't wanna sit, and I'mma gonna tell you about it. Nah nah nah, I don't wanna be quiet and YOU CANT make me. Boring!_
> 
> She did almost the same thing at the other (animal free) store I took her to to fit her for a coat and boots when she got bored and decided we needed to go visit the cashiers, so it's back to basics on being a good dog in public, I guess.


Ha! Oh my..... It's so embarrassing, isn't it?? Peggy was lovely at Petco today and then a voice came over the loudspeaker. She must've thought it was God calling down from the heavens because she sure talked back. And loudly!!


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## PeggyTheParti

(If this is still her "good puppy" age, I'm toast.)


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## For Want of Poodle

PeggytheParti - I looked at SniffSpot, it looks like a great idea, but the nearest one is a couple hours away, I'm afraid. We do go to the park or the trainyard with her on a 50 ft long line, but she really would love a fenced yard. I sometimes sit on my front steps with her on a flexi and let her run the yard (it's just the right length she can't make it to the street). There's a dog park, but I don't like the dogs there. She and I are both looking forward to me having christmas break so she can burn off some energy at the park near my mom's. 

Yeah - we've done hysterics before when seeing other dogs on leash (and yes, other dogs going nuts certainly don't help with that), but not the angry barking thing before.


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## dogsavvy

I don't know how folks do it without fenced yards or older dogs to help. LOL I've had a multiple working dog household for so long I'd be lost without their help. We're about to move as we've finally sold our house (yay us!) so we'll no doubt have to put up a new fence but that'll be among the first thing to get done.

I never understood parents being embarrassed by their children in stores until I had a dog throw a temper tantrum in a store. I have handled a lot of this sort of thing in my time from clients' dogs but not from one of my own. The dog totally flipped out over a squeaky toy. A guy picked it up, squeaked it & my dog thought he was hurting some kind of little animal & wanted to EAT the man. To be fair the man had been holding a small dog earlier. My, was my face red. I'm certain there were those who laughed themselves silly. I had the guy toss me the toy & I showed him it wasn't a living thing, even squeaked it. He began to accept that it wasn't an animal being harmed & cooled it. The guy was brave enough to come shake my hand as a stabilization exercise & the dog accepted my commands without breaking but whew! that was awful. I am glad the man was willing to help in this training moment but I would not have faulted him if he'd been like, "no way, lady you & your dog are nutso." 

Mr. Layne is a bouncy, bubbly ballet dancer. He's a laugh waiting to happen right now  He has a tizzy fit when he's not in the mood to work but I've noticed that's getting less & less.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Peggy was EXTRA obsessed with my husband this morning and driving him mad. I tried to explain she's just looking to him for guidance, and his impatience just makes her more pushy, as she desperately tries to communicate. So I intervened and suggested we at least take a look at the dog park, and see if it might be an option today.

And hooray it was!!! She got to play with standard poodles of all ages, and they each offered up valuable lessons: One built her confidence; one humbled her; one joyfully gave her a chance to run like the wind. 

I think doggy mentors are really important. 

I compare humans raising a puppy to trying to grow a native plant indoors. Outdoors that plant naturally gets all that it needs to thrive; but in the vacuum of your home, you are responsible for everything!! You have to recreate that native environment and it can be exhausting.

Same goes for trying to meet all your dog's needs. Just half an hour with a well-balanced pack of canine friends can teach weeks' worth of lessons.

Here's Peggy staring longingly at my husband this morning:


----------



## PeggyTheParti

(Look at those cute but strange white circles forming around her eyes! I wonder what her adult coat will look like.)


----------



## PeggyTheParti

We had a real adolescent moment this morning!

Our breakfast routine is rock solid: I wake up and let Peggy out of her crate. We have a good sleepy snuggle. Out for potty and then Peggy waits on her mat in the kitchen while I make her breakfast and my morning coffee. I waggle her bowl under her nose (mmmmm! smell that!) and then I say "IN!" and she races to her indoor exercise pen where she's fed.

Well, this morning she instead raced behind the dining room table. Um. Okay? So I sat down with her food bowl. "No chasing. Nope. Sorry, ma'am."

She raced out from behind the table and did an _enthusiastic_ sit on her bed in front of me. 

"In."

She zoomed a lap around the couch and then back on her bed with a flourish.

"In."

Another lap. Another dramatic sit.

"Innn."

The same thing.

I finally plucked a kibble from the bowl, placed it under her nose, and guided her to her pen.

"In."

And it was back to lovely morning poodle, as though nothing had ever happened. In fact, she took it a step further and went into her pen and then into her crate! ? Apology accepted, Peggy.

That's some classic teenage boundary testing, right? I actually found it quite endearing that while she didn't want to follow my command, she still offered up another behaviour she knows I like. And with such gusto! It was hard not to smile or laugh and inadvertently egg her on.


----------



## Getting ready

I am jealous that the food is motivating for her. Even chicken will not motivate Noodle when he is in the mood for a game of chase.


----------



## Raindrops

Misha is used to sleeping in his crate at night. Last night he got the bright idea that maybe barking in the middle of the night was the way to go. I dutifully got up and took him out, thinking maybe he had the runs. Nope. Don't like this new idea of his! Two steps forward, one step back.


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## PeggyTheParti

Getting ready said:


> I am jealous that the food is motivating for her. Even chicken will not motivate Noodle when he is in the mood for a game of chase.


I think it's more that she just gave up lol.

In her puppy classes we could train with one or two different types of treats. Now, in her teen classes, we need a minimum of four, each with a very different smell and texture. Even then, she still sometimes zones out completely, and it's like her ears and nose stop working. That's when it helps if I get in her face a bit, to break the spell she's under.

"Oh yeah hi! I remember you!"


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Raindrops said:


> Misha is used to sleeping in his crate at night. Last night he got the bright idea that maybe barking in the middle of the night was the way to go. I dutifully got up and took him out, thinking maybe he had the runs. Nope. Don't like this new idea of his! Two steps forward, one step back.


Ooooh I am DREADING that one. Our uninterrupted nights are what keep me going during the day. Hoping it was just a one-off from Misha? Fingers crossed!!

I'm probably jinxing us, but Peggy has never had the runs. Oddly enough, that's made me even _more_ paranoid about it happening while she's in the crate. Talk about a sleep ruiner! Unlike a spoo, my last dog fit neatly in the utility sink in our laundry room. A poopy Peggy would be a true ordeal.


----------



## Raindrops

PeggyTheParti said:


> Ooooh I am DREADING that one. Our uninterrupted nights are what keep me going during the day. Hoping it was just a one-off from Misha? Fingers crossed!!
> 
> I'm probably jinxing us, but Peggy has never had the runs. Oddly enough, that's made me even _more_ paranoid about it happening while she's in the crate. Talk about a sleep ruiner! Unlike a spoo, my last dog fit neatly in the utility sink in our laundry room. A poopy Peggy would be a true ordeal.


Oh man definitely. Yeah I am willing to get up to prevent that! I've never had it in the crate either so far. I think the barking happened last night because I didn't give him as much exercise as I usually do, so he didn't settle down at night. But that is not really an excuse! The trick is to be able to tell when it's code brown and when it's just teenager...


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Raindrops said:


> Oh man definitely. Yeah I am willing to get up to prevent that! I've never had it in the crate either so far. I think it happened last night because I didn't give him as much exercise as I usually do, so he didn't settle down at night. But that is not really an excuse! The trick is to be able to tell when it's code brown and when it's just teenager...


Code brown! Lololol!

My husband did get up once a few weeks ago when he heard a restless poodle shortly before morning. Apparently she looked quite confused when he opened her crate and only reluctantly followed him outside, yawning the whole time. One halfhearted pee and she was back to bed.

I guess dogs, like us, sometimes have nights when they toss and turn.


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## PeggyTheParti

Lord help me. I'm thinking Peggy might be experiencing a secondary fear period, because all day today she's been barking at every little thing. And not just an alert woof. LOUD sudden barks that nearly give me a heart attack. And she's sticking verrrry close.

Is there just this second fear period? So when it's done it's done for good? Or is it something that comes and goes throughout adolescence?

(Hiding my eyes so I don't see any answers I don't like.)


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## Fenris-wolf

''Lord help me'' that's what I say too. Oh, no!? It might be a second fear period, but I'm not sure.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Oh this is fun and new! This morning Peggy woke me up by howling in her crate. A long and truly mournful awooooo. I froze, hoping it was just my imagination. But then it happened again.

I waited five minutes before letting her out and she greeted me like it had been _years_ since we saw each other last.

?


----------



## Fenris-wolf

Peggy: I haven't seen you in years even though I'm only 8 months?? and I missed you all this time?! ?

Maybe she thought hours were years?


----------



## Fenris-wolf

Sisko used to throw epic temper tantrums when we would put him in his kennel. He even made it fall over a few times.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Fenris-wolf said:


> Peggy: I haven't seen you in years even though I'm only 8 months?? and I missed you all this time?! ?
> 
> Maybe she thought hours were years?


??????


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Fenris-wolf said:


> Sisko used to throw epic temper tantrums when we would put him in his kennel. He even made it fall over a few times.


I want to avoid this at all costs. Her x-pen and crate are our sanity savers! ? Will do some "back-to-basics" training with them, to reinforce their positive associations.....and cross our fingers.


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## Fenris-wolf

PeggyTheParti said:


> I want to avoid this at all costs. Her x-pen and crate are our sanity savers! ? Will do some "back-to-basics" training with them, to reinforce their positive associations.....and cross our fingers.


Okay, I hope it goes well! It should though! You're doing a good job with Peggy.

Thank you for your help with Sisko!?


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## PeggyTheParti

Fenris-wolf said:


> Okay, I hope it goes well! It should though! You're doing a good job with Peggy.
> 
> Thank you for your help with Sisko!?


I appreciate that  I'm kinda feeling like a failure lately.


----------



## Fenris-wolf

PeggyTheParti said:


> I appreciate that  I'm kinda feeling like a failure lately.


?. I'm not gonna lie, I sometimes still just feel like a failure. It's not as bad as it used to be, but I still feel it sometimes. You might want to look at Zak George's reaction video with his new puppy at the dog park. I just was it today and it made me feel a lot better. I think I can pull it up?


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Fenris-wolf said:


> ?. I'm not gonna lie, I sometimes feel like a failure too. It's not as bad as it used to be, but I still feel it sometimes. You might want to look at Zak George's reaction video with his new puppy at the dog park. I just was it today and it made me feel a lot better. I think I can pull it up?


Ohmigosh YES!! I just watched it the other day and it really did make me feel better. Maybe I should watch it again. ? It's so easy to feel like you're the only one struggling, even when deep down you know better. 

I love Zak George's style, too. He's great at remaining calm and steady, while also being dynamic enough to keep his pup's attention. I use his "treat wiggles" a lot when I'm working with Peggy. He almost moves his hands like a magician.


----------



## Raindrops

PeggyTheParti said:


> Oh this is fun and new! This morning Peggy woke me up by howling in her crate. A long and truly mournful awooooo. I froze, hoping it was just my imagination. But then it happened again.
> 
> I waited five minutes before letting her out and she greeted me like it had been _years_ since we saw each other last.
> 
> ?


Remember when I said Misha was barking in his crate in the middle of the night? LOL. But his crate was getting small so I got him a new bigger crate and he stopped the barking after that. Maybe he can sprawl out more now and so he's happier.

Zak George is okay. I like him more after his recent puppy series. Before that I felt like he kinda made things seem too easy. But he does a good job of showing his struggles in the recent series. My favorite Youtube trainer is _definitely_ Stonnie Dennis. Watching him work with dogs is poetry. Even if I don't agree with a lot of what he says. I still think his approach is wonderful and I think it has made me a better dog owner.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Raindrops said:


> Remember when I said Misha was barking in his crate in the middle of the night? LOL. But his crate was getting small so I got him a new bigger crate and he stopped the barking after that. Maybe he can sprawl out more now and so he's happier.
> 
> Zak George is okay. I like him more after his recent puppy series. Before that I felt like he kinda made things seem too easy. But he does a good job of showing his struggles in the recent series. My favorite Youtube trainer is _definitely_ Stonnie Dennis. Watching him work with dogs is poetry. Even if I don't agree with a lot of what he says. I still think his approach is wonderful and I think it has made me a better dog owner.


I'll check him out! Thank you!

I didn't discover Zak George until after he started his puppy series, and I've found it to be a great resource, if only for the moral support. It's nice to see Inertia going through all the stages that Peggy's going through, despite having such an experienced trainer. Reminds me it's not ALL within my control.

And yes, I remember Misha's midnight barking. ?? I remember thinking "Oh noooooo" because that reliable nighttime break is SO very precious to me.

I'm glad to hear you found a solution. I'd like to get Peggy a larger crate, I think. She fits in hers just fine, and likes to curl up in the back, but it's by no means spacious. It's helpful to know that may have been a factor in Misha's restlessness.


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## Mufar42

I don't care for Zak George, can't really put my finger on why.


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## Raindrops

PeggyTheParti said:


> I'll check him out! Thank you!
> 
> I didn't discover Zak George until after he started his puppy series, and I've found it to be a great resource, if only for the moral support. It's nice to see Inertia going through all the stages that Peggy's going through, despite having such an experienced trainer. Reminds me it's not ALL within my control.
> 
> And yes, I remember Misha's midnight barking. ?? I remember thinking "Oh noooooo" because that reliable nighttime break is SO very precious to me.
> 
> I'm glad to hear you found a solution. I'd like to get Peggy a larger crate, I think. She fits in hers just fine, and likes to curl up in the back, but it's by no means spacious. It's helpful to know that may have been a factor in Misha's restlessness.


I'm sure she's just being a silly teenager and will get over it. It's like suddenly new thoughts occur to them and they have to try them out. Misha's going through a bit of a fear period, noticing things he's never noticed before. I have a friend who permanently has a halloween decoration skeleton sitting in a chair. Misha has seen this skeleton many many times and never thought anything of it. But he was over there last night and after he'd been there about an hour, he suddenly looks at the skeleton and started barking his head off, clearly trying to tell us it was _NOT OKAY and YOU GUYS IT'S A SKELETON_. But we just let him slowly figure out that it was fine. If there was a real skeleton monster, I hope it wouldn't take him an hour to notice though!


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## jojogal001

Peggy I feel for you! Zeke always showed and proved how intelligent he was, but at about 8-10 months old, he started discovering something new to do, focus on, learn, teach (me), and practice everything over and over endlessly - Every. Single. Day! It was truly exhausting, and it slowed down at about 3 years old. He’ll be 7 in August and will still go through spurts of newness that can last from a week to a few weeks. But his “puppy exuberance” abated by 3 years old.
It can be exhausting, but if you can find your way past the frustration, much of it is so funny! He has kept me laughing every single day since I got him.

Stella also does something new every few days and she will be 8 in June. Keep in mind though, I’ve only had her about a year, and she is still being trained to our way of life, how to fit into our family and setting new routines. Yet she still has high energy, does everything with zeal.
Just when you think they are taking a step backwards in their training or aren’t listening to you, well, be prepared because that’s when she will _amaze_ you with her something new. And it will be nothing you taught her. It truly can be amazing.


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## Carolinek

Peggy seems like normal teenager to me, and I feel your pain. Gracie at 14 months still has these moments. She has grown up a lot in the last few months but I’d still classify her as a crazy teenager.

Anything new is cause for a burst of alert barking. We were in Marshall’s a couple days ago and there was a large stuffed llama at the end of the aisle. She burst into a symphony and at first I was puzzled, but then saw what she was barking at and took her to “meet” the llama and then all was well. Luckily the staff thought it was cute. Oy, she is a live wire that one!

She also still thinks the vacuum cleaner, mop, and broom are adversaries and chases them around when we’re cleaning. I remember Max doing this as a young dog and he just outgrew it. I’m hoping that happens, but given her personality, probably not. I may have to work at desensitizing her to this.

And she is like a rocket through the house, airborne much of the time in fact. But not in “a bull in china shop” way, she seems to understand she can’t do things like go careening off the end tables, knocking over my glass lamps. Of course, I also may post next week that the lamps were a casualty of puppyhood! So far so good though.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

jojogal001 said:


> Peggy I feel for you! Zeke always showed and proved how intelligent he was, but at about 8-10 months old, he started discovering something new to do, focus on, learn, teach (me), and practice everything over and over endlessly - Every. Single. Day! It was truly exhausting, and it slowed down at about 3 years old. He’ll be 7 in August and will still go through spurts of newness that can last from a week to a few weeks. But his “puppy exuberance” abated by 3 years old.
> It can be exhausting, but if you can find your way past the frustration, much of it is so funny! He has kept me laughing every single day since I got him.
> 
> Stella also does something new every few days and she will be 8 in June. Keep in mind though, I’ve only had her about a year, and she is still being trained to our way of life, how to fit into our family and setting new routines. Yet she still has high energy, does everything with zeal.
> Just when you think they are taking a step backwards in their training or aren’t listening to you, well, be prepared because that’s when she will _amaze_ you with her something new. And it will be nothing you taught her. It truly can be amazing.


I do find it amazing how _right_ when I'm at my wit's end, we'll have an hour (or sometimes even a day!) of the most unexpectedly dreamy poodle. It reminds me that she's not TRYING to be a pain in the butt. She's learning. It's all getting processed and filed away somewhere.

And you're right - the laughing rarely stops. Thank goodness!


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Raindrops said:


> I'm sure she's just being a silly teenager and will get over it. It's like suddenly new thoughts occur to them and they have to try them out. Misha's going through a bit of a fear period, noticing things he's never noticed before. I have a friend who permanently has a halloween decoration skeleton sitting in a chair. Misha has seen this skeleton many many times and never thought anything of it. But he was over there last night and after he'd been there about an hour, he suddenly looks at the skeleton and started barking his head off, clearly trying to tell us it was _NOT OKAY and YOU GUYS IT'S A SKELETON_. But we just let him slowly figure out that it was fine. If there was a real skeleton monster, I hope it wouldn't take him an hour to notice though!


I've laughed at this over and over again since reading it last night. Such a perfect adolescent moment.

(I'm also rather intrigued by your friend's choice of decor! ?? I love Halloween.)


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Carolinek said:


> Peggy seems like normal teenager to me, and I feel your pain. Gracie at 14 months still has these moments. She has grown up a lot in the last few months but I’d still classify her as a crazy teenager.
> 
> Anything new is cause for a burst of alert barking. We were in Marshall’s a couple days ago and there was a large stuffed llama at the end of the aisle. She burst into a symphony and at first I was puzzled, but then saw what she was barking at and took her to “meet” the llama and then all was well. Luckily the staff thought it was cute. Oy, she is a live wire that one!
> 
> She also still thinks the vacuum cleaner, mop, and broom are adversaries and chases them around when we’re cleaning. I remember Max doing this as a young dog and he just outgrew it. I’m hoping that happens, but given her personality, probably not. I may have to work at desensitizing her to this.
> 
> And she is like a rocket through the house, airborne much of the time in fact. But not in “a bull in china shop” way, she seems to understand she can’t do things like go careening off the end tables, knocking over my glass lamps. Of course, I also may post next week that the lamps were a casualty of puppyhood! So far so good though.


I'm going to try hearing it as "a symphony" next time. ? Might help a bit with the embarrassment. 

With my 8 lb Gracie, I do remember the adolescent barking being quite funny. Around Christmas time it got especially silly, when she was EXTREMELY concerned with the inflatable Homer Simpson wearing a Santa hat on our neighbour's lawn. 

With a standard, though, the barking is just soooo ferocious sounding. It comes on so abruptly, too. And while it will immediately stop if I let her explore the offending item or person, that's not always possible. I don't want to scare people who don't seem open to an introduction. So then I'm just the fool waggling treats in front of a screaming poodle's face before finally saying "Let's go!" and pretty much just running away.

It's been..um.....humbling. ?

I'll be praying for the safety of your lamps!


----------



## Carolinek

Humbling is a good way to describe raising a puppy for sure! And I hear you about the difference between small and big dogs. I went in the opposite direction, from big to small, and swore the little guys would not get away with things just because they’re little.

I’ve failed at that. There is no way I would have let the big dogs careen through the living room and climb on the furniture the way these little dogs do. They would have been promptly escorted outside to carry on out there.
And those glass lamps, well if they break, it’s on me! Four dogs, grandkids (one is a toddler)..what was I thinking? But they’re really pretty, and were a great deal at Marshall’s...lol!


----------



## Raindrops

PeggyTheParti said:


> I've laughed at this over and over again since reading it last night. Such a perfect adolescent moment.
> 
> (I'm also rather intrigued by your friend's choice of decor! ?? I love Halloween.)


Well I don't think it was really planned out, but they got the skeleton for a Halloween party and set him up in a rocking chair reading a textbook. And he's just sort of stayed there for three years now. Even though we regularly run out of chairs when they have parties. Nobody sits in that chair!


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Carolinek said:


> Humbling is a good way to describe raising a puppy for sure! And I hear you about the difference between small and big dogs. I went in the opposite direction, from big to small, and swore the little guys would not get away with things just because they’re little.
> 
> I’ve failed at that. There is no way I would have let the big dogs careen through the living room and climb on the furniture the way these little dogs do. They would have been promptly escorted outside to carry on out there.
> And those glass lamps, well if they break, it’s on me! Four dogs, grandkids (one is a toddler)..what was I thinking? But they’re really pretty, and were a great deal at Marshall’s...lol!


I bet your home is a lot of fun with those dogs and grandkids! Can't get too attached to material things with all those sweet creatures around. 

I remember an ex-boyfriend referring to Gracie bouncing towards him on her back legs as "doing wheelies." And it usually elicited an "Awwwww!" from everyone else.

If Peggy does that now it's "lunging" and "Very Bad."

Poor Peggy. ?

She's learning to just sort of dance in one spot when she can muster the self-control, rather than lunging _towards_ people. I'm undecided on how I feel about that.


----------



## Carolinek

It sounds like Peggy is doing a good job of developing some self control, I’m trying to picture her dance! She is such a beautiful dog.

Yes, those little guys do get away with more, I’m very guilty of that!


----------



## MustLoveDogs

On the subject of barking at weird things? I was walking Cleo the other day, and she suddenly froze and started barking--very unlike her. There was a school bus coming, so i thought maybe that was it? But she doesn't bark at vehicles. Not really at anything except squirrels. So i looked for squirrels, and saw nothing. I encouraged her to keep walking, and after a couple of steps she stopped and barked again--the "alarm" bark. And then she cautiously approached, sniffed, and finally approved this--and then kept walking like nothing had happened:


----------



## PeggyTheParti

MustLoveDogs said:


> On the subject of barking at weird things? I was walking Cleo the other day, and she suddenly froze and started barking--very unlike her. There was a school bus coming, so i thought maybe that was it? But she doesn't bark at vehicles. Not really at anything except squirrels. So i looked for squirrels, and saw nothing. I encouraged her to keep walking, and after a couple of steps she stopped and barked again--the "alarm" bark. And then she cautiously approached, sniffed, and finally approved this--and then kept walking like nothing had happened:
> 
> View attachment 464277


?

Good girl, Cleo! That was a very scary monster.


----------



## CSC

PeggyTheParti said:


> Tips? Tricks? Commiseration? Bring it on!
> 
> I wasn't expecting it quite so soon, but Peggy's 26th week has brought us a whole new level of dog. Eeek! It kicked off with the worst puppy class we've ever had. Usually after a rocky start, she settles right in. But she was wild-eyed from the first minute right through to the last. Even our trainer's assistant, who's typically Peggy's biggest fan, stepped back with a "Whoa!"
> 
> Yes, there's positive progress. She snoozed on the couch with me for a full 20 minutes the other night. That's new! But mostly it feels like the bond we've worked so hard to forge with her is in tatters. A typical teen—she just doesn't think we're all that exciting anymore! And the rest of the world....well.....it's maybe a bit TOO exciting.
> 
> My husband came home from an especially challenging walk with her this afternoon and had to go right back out by himself to clear his head and regroup. And just now, as I was typing this, I nearly had a heart attack as she erupted into a fit of wild barking and growling. The trigger? The heat clicked on and a plastic bag floated off the counter and onto the floor. But that's nothing compared to reflections in dark windows.... Oh the drama.
> 
> I'd love to hear from anyone else who's navigating (or has navigated) this trying period. I've scoured the forum for other threads on the topic, but links to any particularly good ones would also be appreciated.


Hang in there. It won’t last. Just don’t let her win. Distract her with “sit” and a treat during her tantrum. Or... I went into the bathroom and shut the door and stayed there until he calmed down. I said sit... and peeked out. When he sat I came out w a treat and a good boy


----------



## PeggyTheParti

We attended our "teen angst" training class today without Peggy. She's in heat, but a new session was starting and we'd already missed last week. We didn't want to lose our momentum. 

It was EYE-OPENING! 

Wow! 

We're—gasp!—_not_ the only ones with an occasionally monstrous teen!

We're usually so focused on Peggy in class, I guess I tend to imagine everyone around us is doing great. It was a very valuable experience. (Just don't tell Peggy where we were!)

How are everyone's teenagers doing?? I'd love to hear some stories.


----------



## CSC

Sammy just shredded my second swim cap. He waited until I had put my gym bag down and left the room 30 seconds and he got it. “Drop it!” worked but NO treat. He had the audacity to pout.


----------



## Grannyhorsesitter

PeggyTheParti said:


> Tips? Tricks? Commiseration? Bring it on!
> 
> I wasn't expecting it quite so soon, but Peggy's 26th week has brought us a whole new level of dog. Eeek! It kicked off with the worst puppy class we've ever had. Usually after a rocky start, she settles right in. But she was wild-eyed from the first minute right through to the last. Even our trainer's assistant, who's typically Peggy's biggest fan, stepped back with a "Whoa!"
> 
> Yes, there's positive progress. She snoozed on the couch with me for a full 20 minutes the other night. That's new! But mostly it feels like the bond we've worked so hard to forge with her is in tatters. A typical teen—she just doesn't think we're all that exciting anymore! And the rest of the world....well.....it's maybe a bit TOO exciting.
> 
> My husband came home from an especially challenging walk with her this afternoon and had to go right back out by himself to clear his head and regroup. And just now, as I was typing this, I nearly had a heart attack as she erupted into a fit of wild barking and growling. The trigger? The heat clicked on and a plastic bag floated off the counter and onto the floor. But that's nothing compared to reflections in dark windows.... Oh the drama.
> 
> I'd love to hear from anyone else who's navigating (or has navigated) this trying period. I've scoured the forum for other threads on the topic, but links to any particularly good ones would also be appreciated.


My Emma will be 7 mos. the 4 th of March and amazingly is pretty stable...... so far. She does have those moments of insolence, total disregard for what's being asked of her and no focus but they are pretty fleeting. That being said, she does get a lot of outside free time. She's up and out with the other dogs by 7 and by the time we're done with chores it's usually 9:30 - 10. In that time she chases the barn cats (less since the "discussion" we had about that a couple days ago), runs back and forth visiting/ playing the fool with the brood mares and two year old stud colt in the arena and outside, runs the fence and cleans up as I throw feed for 4 mares, then we jog on out to the boarding colt pen and back (1/4 mile), go water the cows and she chases them away from the tank to "protect" me, then I scoop poop for about 30 minutes while she rambles around on her own harassing the other dogs, helps me fill the hay bags and often tries to take a wad in her mouth to give to the horses, after which we go to the house. If she's being too crazy I have a bucket hanger strap attached to my waist and I just snap her up and continue on my way. She gets a lot more focused in that case! Today for the first time we did some short distance heeling off leash and she was good.... tomorrow, meh. She sleeps from about 10-12 then out the herd goes and free for all with the old dogs till about 12:30 after which we do some mini training in my tiny trailer we live in and then nap till about 3. It's then time to go out again and free play, unless I'm working on something outside that she has to oversee, and feed horses again at 5. On the evening run we go out to the front gate and lock up for the night which gets her another 1/2 mile jog. During several days in the week we randomly go store hopping in her vest and visit friends, do laundry, etc. She's been very good about sitting to meet people and doesn't jump up at all, she can clear the occasional counter at a check out, was waaay to happy to meet new people at my chiropractor appt. but was well behaved while I was on the table massager and surprised Doc by not taking exception to me being manhandled by him. His family raise Mastiffs so he was wary. By the time we got home she was tuckered out and crashed for the afternoon. That mind work and dealing with new places just wears the poor baby out. On the teenager side she does launch herself to Superman heights when we go feed the horses and is pretty mouthy...... we're working on it, we're working on it. She does get the zoomies occasionally but always in the barn and I think the daily morning and evening runs with her superdog leaps at each horse's nose for a kiss as she sails by airborne takes the edge off. I'm sure I'll have plenty of issues, her lack of focus is a biggy right now, but at least she isn't going to get any younger. She wants to please and is a real thinker, overnight usually, but does have some comprehension issues (coupled with lack of compliance desire). All in all raising Emma so far is a real hoot and keeps me young. I'm dying to see how she reacts to the new foals coming, one any day now, and hope she remembers to stay OUT of their pens as those mamas get real touchy about their babies being messed with. Life is hectic, life is good.


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## MustLoveDogs

If anything I think Cleo is getting more "teenaged" by the minute--definitely moreso than a month ago. She will be 11 months on Sunday. It's harder to get her to focus on me during our walks, so there is more pulling to interact with her environment, even when i give her plenty of sniffing time. I have to give her more treats than i had been doing on our walks, and they have to be good ones. 
Also, whereas she had almost totally stopped jumping on people (just on dogs), this has started up again--with visitors, etc, not with me. She's just SO excited to be around anyone new, it takes her quite a while to settle down. It is clear that she has a lot of trouble with those impulses. On the good side, I've taught her to jump on cue to allow her some fun. She jumps up and touches my hand with her nose (target). She will also jump up on cue and rest her front legs on my forearm, and i give her a hug that way. 
We are taking a CGC class, even though i know she won't pass yet. She does well at just about everything, except when people approach me, she goes toward them the first couple times, or when someone approaches to pet her; she's not into it and kind of wiggles away--unless i give her good treats, then she will be still and tolerate all of it. But, no treats allowed on the test! She's used to the other dogs in the class now, so she doesn't try as hard to interact with them, and that makes it a kind of artificial situation, so I'm try to get her out and about more to desensitize her, i guess. When she was younger she got carsick all the time and that made it hard to go to a lot of places; i'm trying to make up for it now. Either way, the CGC class is a valuable experience and it actually makes me feel better about things, b/c it helps to know how to work on things and see that there are a lot of things she can still do well. Plus, i see that everyone has stuff they have to work on, even though the other dogs are all older.

Finally, i've had to pretty much start over with her emergency recall training after she slipped out of the house the other day (the door opened behind me when i was leaving and i didn't realize). It took 20 minutes and the decoy of the dog next door in order to get her back. It was a very scary incident. This teenage thing just stinks, if you ask me! We put in all this training for several months, and suddenly _poof_ it's as if it never happened!


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## Artsifrtsy

So my spoo has been pretty amazing and will be 2 years old next week - at 8 weeks we started socializing and he has been going with me to a local art gallery on Saturday evenings at least twice a month since that time. He encounters all kinds of people and charms most everyone he meets - he always has. He was the easiest dog I have ever house broke - only two accidents ever. He's a dream on a leash. I know I have been very lucky. 

He has one issue - he gets surprised - when he is caught off guard he barks very loud and looks like he will pounce. He never does but he has scared the crap out of people - including a couple of his pals at the gallery. He has this reaction to kids sometimes too and that is hard to deal with because out in public he will be around children. I almost hate to expose a kid to him at this point because he can scare them - I have a couple of friends whose grandkids know him well so we work with them. I keep taking him places so that he is exposed to all kinds of people. This whole kids thing is a puzzle - his breeder has 5 kids and he was loved on and played with by all of them - they are a very dog friendly home so it's not like he has never seen children.


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## MustLoveDogs

Artsi, maybe you could try desensitizing him to kids by starting at a distance where you think he won't bark, giving him treats, gradually getting closer each time, always with more treats, until he's able to tolerate being near kids without barking, b/c he'll associate them with good stuff (treats)?


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## Artsifrtsy

MustLoveDogs said:


> Artsi, maybe you could try desensitizing him to kids by starting at a distance where you think he won't bark, giving him treats, gradually getting closer each time, always with more treats, until he's able to tolerate being near kids without barking, b/c he'll associate them with good stuff (treats)?


Good idea. I know that some of his reaction is protectiveness - he’s very protective of me and if he’s afraid of kids then he needs to protect me from them. He needs to associate them with something fun.


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## PeggyTheParti

I feel like we might be experiencing a bit of a hormonal lull, thanks to the end of Peggy's first heat cycle. But she's only 9 months old, and I'm sure there's plenty more excitement around the bend!

So I'm going to take a deep breath and focus on two upsides of adolescence so far:

Cuddles! All the cuddles! Peggy will now seek out my lap to rest her head while she sleeps. In fact, it's rare she strays very far from us, and she's very good at balancing her affections between me and my husband.
Tail wags! I didn't realize puppy Peggy didn't have a very demonstrative tail until adolescence hit. The change has been dramatic! Overall, I think she's just gotten much better at communicating. Her default used to be a frustrated bark. Now, with her growing vocabulary of body language, her frustration seems to be melting away.


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## PeggyTheParti

Artsifrtsy said:


> He has one issue - he gets surprised - when he is caught off guard he barks very loud and looks like he will pounce.


I actually remember reading about this exact trait in a description of the breed. Apparently it's quite common for poodles to startle easily. 

One way I've been working to desensitize Peggy is by gently "surprising" her by putting my hand on her back when I give her a treat. I've also eased up on games of fetch after reading it can elevate cortisol levels long after the game is over, leaving dogs on edge. I imagine the same would be true of lengthy dog park sessions and other high-excitement activities.


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## Artsifrtsy

PeggyTheParti said:


> I actually remember reading about this exact trait in a description of the breed. Apparently it's quite common for poodles to startle easily.
> 
> One way I've been working to desensitize Peggy is by gently "surprising" her by putting my hand on her back when I give her a treat. I've also eased up on games of fetch after reading it can elevate cortisol levels long after the game is over, leaving dogs on edge. I imagine the same would be true of lengthy dog park sessions and other high-excitement activities.


 I had never heard of this trait but that is good to know. He's such a chill dog that it is a shock when he reacts. He did it Saturday when I was leaving the gallery. It was after dark and someone was on the sidewalk outside with a dog on a leash - he just lost it. He never advanced towards the dog he just barked and backed up so loud.


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## PeggyTheParti

Artsifrtsy said:


> I had never heard of this trait but that is good to know. He's such a chill dog that it is a shock when he reacts. He did it Saturday when I was leaving the gallery. It was after dark and someone was on the sidewalk outside with a dog on a leash - he just lost it. He never advanced towards the dog he just barked and backed up so loud.


That exact scenario has been described here MANY times. So...take some comfort in being in good company. 

It's such a tricky one, because you never know it's coming. You can't prepare yourself to make it a teachable moment.

Would love to hear if anyone else has found a way to manage nighttime scares. Our current approach is just a cheerful, reassuring demeanour and getting the heck out of there: 

"Let's go!" 

And off we briskly go in the opposite direction, rewarding with a treat.

"Wasn't that a nice man? Aw. He loves puppies! I can tell. Good quiet Peggy."

Another treat.

"Nighttime sure is spooooky. Thanks for being so quiet so we can listen for more nice people."


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## PeggyTheParti

Adolescence update:

Lately we seem to get one good day (like, so good that I forget she's an adolescent) and one not-so-good day that can really test our patience. Luckily, even on the more challenging days, she's fully embraced lazy mornings. Whether she's on the floor in my husband's office or on the couch with me, she's quite content to snooze away the hours until lunch.

(Unless of course the FedEx guy dares to step on the porch.)

Clicker training has definitely been part of our leap forward. It's alleviated Peggy's overall frustration and improved her recall tenfold. This morning I said "Peggy here!" and she literally soared through the air from the top level of our yard. It's amazing how it suddenly "clicked" for her.


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## MustLoveDogs

PTP, i'd love to hear how you worked on recall. That is still a problem for us, still unreliable. We started out on clicker training, and once the behaviors were ingrained, i didn't use the clicker anymore. But for recall it didn't seem to work out. Could you tell me exactly what you did that worked? Did you click once she had come to you, and then treat, or something else?


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## PeggyTheParti

MustLoveDogs said:


> PTP, i'd love to hear how you worked on recall. That is still a problem for us, still unreliable. We started out on clicker training, and once the behaviors were ingrained, i didn't use the clicker anymore. But for recall it didn't seem to work out. Could you tell me exactly what you did that worked? Did you click once she had come to you, and then treat, or something else?


I really think the late introduction of clicker training might have been the key for her. We'd already been working on recall for over 6 months. The foundation was there, but the reliability wasn't.

Even now I don't trust it would work in a high stakes situation. That's something I don't expect from her (or any dog) until maturity. And even then, I know there can always be exceptional circumstances.

But I knew we'd made huge progress when she started literally sprinting to me. And that was almost immediately after I introduced the clicker. Once she mentally paired the clicker with reward, she tuned into me on a different level. Every command began eliciting an immediate response.

To start, I just spent a few minutes (my trainer said this process should have actually been days or weeks - oops) doing click, treat, click, treat, click, treat. Then a few minutes doing simple commands:

Sit, butt hits floor, click, treat.

Lay down, elbows hit floor, click, treat.

Repeat, repeat, repeat, always being extremely careful to time the click with the EXACT moment she does the desired behaviour.

Until I introduced the clicker, we'd been working on a more relaxed version of "come" in class, which is basically just her name paired with the word "here." Until then, she'd gotten a high value treat each time she returned to face me, but her response was spotty at best, especially if there was something more fun going on.

But it's been solid since that first clicker session, even when I don't have the clicker. I tried just a gentle "Peggy, here!" when she was playing with her dog friends the other day, when food is usually the _last_ thing on her mind, and she returned so quickly to me that another owner gasped, "Peggy! Wow!"

During a clicker session, the sequence is always "Peggy, here!" followed by a click the _moment_ she arrives in front of me. Then treat.

Chicken or cheese work best for Peggy. Sometimes I'll use dry treats like a special kibble she loves, but not if we're doing anything active, otherwise she chokes. Tiny bits of string cheese is the best.

P.S. It's been hard training my husband not to ruin the command by using it for unpleasant things or by saying it in a harsh tone. Even for things she doesn't really mind, I encourage him to use an alternative. So going into her crate, for example, is "In."

I never want her to stop and think, "The fun ends if I obey this command." It should just be an extension of the most fun thing ever.

One way we reinforce the fun, outside of clicker training, is by playing "catch" with her. I call it that because it's almost like we're tossing her back and forth. We do this by standing at opposite ends of a field (or the house), each armed with treats, and we take turns calling her. It's the fastest I've ever seen her run. 😂


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## PeggyTheParti

Oh! In addition to that novel I just wrote, I should add that I've found clicker training most useful from a distance. Have you tried that? I think that's probably helped her recall, too—learning to listen to me even when we're 15 or 20 feet apart.

I use a "Go to your bed" command paired with a point, which sends her to a mat. The moment a paw touches the mat, click, and I toss a treat. Then we go through the basics from a distance: Sit. Lay down. Up. Wait. 

Always with a click and a treat toss. Or sometimes I'll mix it up by walking the treat to her.

Note that I really don't actually know what I'm doing. 😂 I'm only just started to seriously research clicker training, so most of this is just my intuitive approach. Proceed with caution.


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## MustLoveDogs

This is very helpful! I read up heavily on clicker training before we got her, so that is what i did with her exclusively for the early months of training, and the puppy classes we took were clicker classes. It worked for us to solidify pretty much everything...other than a solid recall!

One thing i've been working on successfully is taking her out in our fenced yard on a long-line and playing ping-pong. I toss a really good treat (usually turkey, which she can see easily on the ground), and she runs to get it, then i call her and she runs back, and i toss more turkey in a another direction. I think she likes it b/c there's some variety, she gets to run, etc. I also intersperse grabbing her collar and saying "gotcha" and feeding her the turkey. She doesn't try to get away, so that's good. If one of her pals is outside in the yard next door, they'll run together on opposite sides of the fence, so then i'll call her (still on longline), while she's playing, and she'll come and get her treat, then i'll tell her to go back and play with her friend. So she runs back and forth between me and the dog. 

I have tried this a few times when she's having a playdate in our yard, and it just depends how caught up she is. What always works, though, is if i call the other dog over for a treat! When she sees that, she'll follow. The other dog is invariably more food-motivated than she is... (If she doesn't want to do something, she will totally turn away from a treat unless it's the absolute best thing ever. Sometimes it's hard to have the favorite thing on hand at the right moment!)
I like the idea of trying to reintroduce the clicker at a distance. She will definitely recognize it if i go back to it; i may try it in the house first and see what happens.

One thing you might try now that you have good everyday recall is a special "emergency" recall that is different from the regular one. We had one that was working really well for a while, and then it just stopped working and i had to come up with a new word. The difference is when we did the "emergency" one, and she came quickly, i'd give her high value treats and effusive praise for a full 30 seconds. The trainer called it "fine dining," lol. We practiced it 3x/day to get it to work. and it worked! When i'd say the magic word, she'd come running. Then, she became a full-fledged teen and she'd glance at me and go on texting her friends like I was invisible...


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## PeggyTheParti

MustLoveDogs said:


> One thing you might try now that you have good everyday recall is a special "emergency" recall that is different from the regular one. We had one that was working really well for a while, and then it just stopped working and i had to come up with a new word. The difference is when we did the "emergency" one, and she came quickly, i'd give her high value treats and effusive praise for a full 30 seconds. The trainer called it "fine dining," lol. We practiced it 3x/day to get it to work. and it worked! When i'd say the magic word, she'd come running. Then, she became a full-fledged teen and she'd glance at me and go on texting her friends like I was invisible...


That's a good idea. I made the mistake of using that magical "Here" command this morning when she had a dirty sock, and I watched the gears turn....turn......turnnnn.....until her brain settled on NOPE.

What was I thinking using it for that?? Clearly I got cocky. 😞

Oddly enough, what ended up working was a boring old sit command. But not before she shredded the thing (which is a first).

I wonder if others under stay-at-home orders are seeing an uptick in obnoxious teen behaviour?

Today Peggy also chewed my lip balm. Another first. She's smelled and turned her nose up at that thing a hundred times! And she's never been a destructive chewer _ever_.

I suspect 10-months-old is going to be a bumpy one.


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## PeggyTheParti

Ugh. A few very rough days of regression. This morning she even did her patented mouthy drive-by move, where she sails back and forth in front of me, not jumping ON me, but rather in front of me, taking a mouthful of my sleeve with each leap. Haven't seen that one in months.

We've got a tentative play date set for next week, as things open up a bit around here, and I'm genuinely worried she's going to just lose her mind. Zero human or canine contact aside from us for almost two months is bound to have an impact at this age.


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## Getting ready

We had been working up to more free time out side of ex pen but then Noodle chewed my son’s birthday present. More forced downtime has been helping.

Sadly, one thing Noodle has learned through this experience is not to be bothered by sirens. There were a few weeks when we heard them all day and night.


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## Fenris-wolf

Ohhhh, I'm so sorry you guys have had a few very tough days of regression. I'm sorry, but I don't think I have any advice (I might though), but Sisko was having crazy days, and I was able to turn it around by just doing silly stuff with him (Sisko is VERY SILLY) and he enjoyed it and is better behaved. 

Do you have any Yak Cheese Chews? Have you tried, other chew toys, rope toys, puzzle toys, frozen peanut butter in her Kong? Have you asked her to take care of her stuffies?


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## Fenris-wolf

I'm glad that you guys will be having a playdate😁


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## CSC

PeggyTheParti said:


> Ugh. A few very rough days of regression. This morning she even did her patented mouthy drive-by move, where she sails back and forth in front of me, not jumping ON me, but rather in front of me, taking a mouthful of my sleeve with each leap. Haven't seen that one in months.
> 
> We've got a tentative play date set for next week, as things open up a bit around here, and I'm genuinely worried she's going to just lose her mind. Zero human or canine contact aside from us for almost two months is bound to have an impact at this age.





PeggyTheParti said:


> Ugh. A few very rough days of regression. This morning she even did her patented mouthy drive-by move, where she sails back and forth in front of me, not jumping ON me, but rather in front of me, taking a mouthful of my sleeve with each leap. Haven't seen that one in months.
> 
> We've got a tentative play date set for next week, as things open up a bit around here, and I'm genuinely worried she's going to just lose her mind. Zero human or canine contact aside from us for almost two months is bound to have an impact at this age.



our 11 month old standard does the fly-by slash thing, also, primarily to my husband. our reactions are different, he tends to say "Nonono," and wave his hands which incites the dog into wild play.."oh, boy, oh, boy, daddy wants to play!" when he attempts a fly-by on me, i turn around, fold my arms and ignore him. it hurts his feelings and he will meekly sit. he was WORSE as a young puppy, nipping me, ripping my clothing, grabbing my hand, pawing... awful. then i got the bright idea to go into the bathroom and shut the door until he could sit quietly as i exited. took many times, but it worked. he hates not seeing me. daddy is learning other reactions


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## CSC

PeggyTheParti said:


> Tips? Tricks? Commiseration? Bring it on!
> 
> I wasn't expecting it quite so soon, but Peggy's 26th week has brought us a whole new level of dog. Eeek! It kicked off with the worst puppy class we've ever had. Usually after a rocky start, she settles right in. But she was wild-eyed from the first minute right through to the last. Even our trainer's assistant, who's typically Peggy's biggest fan, stepped back with a "Whoa!"
> 
> Yes, there's positive progress. She snoozed on the couch with me for a full 20 minutes the other night. That's new! But mostly it feels like the bond we've worked so hard to forge with her is in tatters. A typical teen—she just doesn't think we're all that exciting anymore! And the rest of the world....well.....it's maybe a bit TOO exciting.
> 
> My husband came home from an especially challenging walk with her this afternoon and had to go right back out by himself to clear his head and regroup. And just now, as I was typing this, I nearly had a heart attack as she erupted into a fit of wild barking and growling. The trigger? The heat clicked on and a plastic bag floated off the counter and onto the floor. But that's nothing compared to reflections in dark windows.... Oh the drama.
> 
> I'd love to hear from anyone else who's navigating (or has navigated) this trying period. I've scoured the forum for other threads on the topic, but links to any particularly good ones would also be appreciated.


CBD doggie cookies.... and Bonnie Raitt playlists... after a good morning walk or run.... ours was/is rather active. we call him the excitable boy.. like a young boy, he (our Sammy) needs sports, activity or girls to vent his emerging hormones. Peggy is a girl, her hormones are, well, don't you remember? Poodles are an emphatic breed, they are most like us.


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## For Want of Poodle

Is 15 months still an adolescent? We have been dealing with BARk BARK BaRK in the evenings, the loudest, most ear piercing and demanding barks I have ever heard. She barks because she is bored, she barks because the other dog is teasing her with a toy, etc,etc. Isolation is really getting to Annie, who is by far the most social in the family and very much misses trips to the store, trips to new places, the dog park, greeting people in the street, etc, etc. We can't even go to the soccer field and throw a ball as its closed too.


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## PeggyTheParti

Fenris-wolf said:


> Have you asked her to take care of her stuffies?


Ohmigosh SHE DESTROYED ONE OF HER BABIES. Her precious pink pig!! Her very first stuffy! She was taking care of it the other day, giving it gentle nibbles, carrying it around, and then she curled up with it quietly.

Too quietly!!!

You know when young dogs get too quiet, you know they're up to no good? Well, she'd chewed a hole straight through that poor little pig's face and was slowly removing the stuffing.

It's the end of an era. 😭😂


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## PeggyTheParti

Getting ready said:


> We had been working up to more free time out side of ex pen but then Noodle chewed my son’s birthday present. More forced downtime has been helping.
> 
> Sadly, one thing Noodle has learned through this experience is not to be bothered by sirens. There were a few weeks when we heard them all day and night.


Oh that really is so sad. 

As for the birthday present...silly Noodle!! Peggy is definitely more interested in chewing lately. I'll catch her "testing out" the edge of books, or scanning the room for things to grab. This is new behaviour for her. I thought we'd somehow lucked out with a dog that doesn't chew. 😂 Yeah right! No matter how many times I go through it, adolescence is always a surprise. It's so easy to think "phew! hard part's over!" just as it's starting.


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## PeggyTheParti

CSC said:


> our 11 month old standard does the fly-by slash thing, also, primarily to my husband. our reactions are different, he tends to say "Nonono," and wave his hands which incites the dog into wild play.."oh, boy, oh, boy, daddy wants to play!" when he attempts a fly-by on me, i turn around, fold my arms and ignore him. it hurts his feelings and he will meekly sit. he was WORSE as a young puppy, nipping me, ripping my clothing, grabbing my hand, pawing... awful. then i got the bright idea to go into the bathroom and shut the door until he could sit quietly as i exited. took many times, but it worked. he hates not seeing me. daddy is learning other reactions


It's so hard to get everyone on the same page!! There's only the two of us. It should be simple.

My husband doesn't wave his hands, but he'll push Peggy back, which she of course thinks is great fun. Or if she's sticking annoyingly close while he's trying to do something, he'll attempt to dodge her with abrupt movements, which again signals playtime. I have to remind him we've taught her to shadow us with all her loose-leash walk training. She's doing exactly what we've taught her we want her to do! And it's very confusing when the humans send mixed signals like that.

I'm actually glad you reminded me of the clothes-ripping days. Puts today's excited-albeit-harmless behaviour into perspective!!


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## PeggyTheParti

CSC said:


> CBD doggie cookies.... and Bonnie Raitt playlists... after a good morning walk or run.... ours was/is rather active. we call him the excitable boy.. like a young boy, he (our Sammy) needs sports, activity or girls to vent his emerging hormones. Peggy is a girl, her hormones are, well, don't you remember? Poodles are an emphatic breed, they are most like us.


Ohhhhhh the hormones! Yes, yes, I know them well. 😂 Good reminder to be tolerant when she's cuddling up close one minute, and then barking at nothing the next. Exhausting.


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## PeggyTheParti

For Want of Poodle said:


> Is 15 months still an adolescent? We have been dealing with BARk BARK BaRK in the evenings, the loudest, most ear piercing and demanding barks I have ever heard. She barks because she is bored, she barks because the other dog is teasing her with a toy, etc,etc. Isolation is really getting to Annie, who is by far the most social in the family and very much misses trips to the store, trips to new places, the dog park, greeting people in the street, etc, etc. We can't even go to the soccer field and throw a ball as its closed too.


Yep. Definitely still an adolescent!

Peggy's started barking at me again, which I thought was something we were long past. And she pairs it now with very emphatic pawing, which is......fun. 🙄 Yesterday she got both me and my husband right in the face. And then she looks at us like, "What? You don't want me to bite. You don't want me to bop you with my nose. So I came up with this clever alternative. You should be THANKING me."


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## Fenris-wolf

PeggyTheParti said:


> Ohmigosh SHE DESTROYED ONE OF HER BABIES. Her precious pink pig!! Her very first stuffy! She was taking care of it the other day, giving it gentle nibbles, carrying it around, and then she curled up with it quietly.
> 
> Too quietly!!!
> 
> You know when young dogs get too quiet, you know they're up to no good? Well, she'd chewed a hole straight through that poor little pig's face and was slowly removing the stuffing.
> 
> It's the end of an era. 😭😂


NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! Not her very first stuffy!

UH OH! Quiety🤐

YES, I KNOW THAT ALL TOO WELL. Sisko can be really good at that😅. Oh, gosh!!!!! Ohhhh😖 Peggy, why😂?! This era will go down in Peggy history 😭😂


I got Sisko some Yak Cheese Chews and a fluff-less raccoon from Petsmart the day before yesterday. He was happily playing with it and I was sitting on the Sofa right in front of him, then it got "quiet🤐", I look down to see that he had done surgery on its tail and had the squeaker in his mouth. I have noticed he has gotten better if he has something in his mouth. It seem instead of swallowing what ever he has he will just chew on it.


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## CSC

For Want of Poodle said:


> Is 15 months still an adolescent? We have been dealing with BARk BARK BaRK in the evenings, the loudest, most ear piercing and demanding barks I have ever heard. She barks because she is bored, she barks because the other dog is teasing her with a toy, etc,etc. Isolation is really getting to Annie, who is by far the most social in the family and very much misses trips to the store, trips to new places, the dog park, greeting people in the street, etc, etc. We can't even go to the soccer field and throw a ball as its closed too.


Yup, bored. ours is a barker, i am working on that now. i read somewhere to call him in a quiet voice, have him sit and then say sshhhhh with a finger against my mouth. treat time for the good sit and sshhhhh. it's a tough one but it is slowly working as long as i am consistent. also, for anxiety, i put one of my old, smellslikeme, tshirts on him and poof! with Bonnie Raitt on, he finally napped during a storm.


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## PeggyTheParti

Fenris-wolf said:


> I have noticed he has gotten better if he has something in his mouth. It seem instead of swallowing what ever he has he will just chew on it.


I am waiting for this day! Peggy loves to eat stuffing. I can't even imagine what she'd do with a squeaker. I'm guessing guard it and then gulp it down.

Does Sisko eat two meals a day? I've almost given up on giving Peggy breakfast. Sometimes she's hungry around noon. Sometimes around 8pm. Mostly she can't be bothered. And don't even get me started on her drinking habits. Lately if it's not from the toilet, she doesn't want it.


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## Grannyhorsesitter

PeggyTheParti said:


> Tips? Tricks? Commiseration? Bring it on!
> 
> I wasn't expecting it quite so soon, but Peggy's 26th week has brought us a whole new level of dog. Eeek! It kicked off with the worst puppy class we've ever had. Usually after a rocky start, she settles right in. But she was wild-eyed from the first minute right through to the last. Even our trainer's assistant, who's typically Peggy's biggest fan, stepped back with a "Whoa!"
> 
> Yes, there's positive progress. She snoozed on the couch with me for a full 20 minutes the other night. That's new! But mostly it feels like the bond we've worked so hard to forge with her is in tatters. A typical teen—she just doesn't think we're all that exciting anymore! And the rest of the world....well.....it's maybe a bit TOO exciting.
> 
> My husband came home from an especially challenging walk with her this afternoon and had to go right back out by himself to clear his head and regroup. And just now, as I was typing this, I nearly had a heart attack as she erupted into a fit of wild barking and growling. The trigger? The heat clicked on and a plastic bag floated off the counter and onto the floor. But that's nothing compared to reflections in dark windows.... Oh the drama.
> 
> I'd love to hear from anyone else who's navigating (or has navigated) this trying period. I've scoured the forum for other threads on the topic, but links to any particularly good ones would also be appreciated.


I feel guilty, embarrassed, even somewhat of an unintended braggard. Emma is 9 mos. next week and so far just very busy. She was housebroken at 10 weeks, hasn't torn up anything in the house, and not an incessant barker at most unknowns. She does do the fly by mid-air thing on the way out to do chores but has not done the mouth thing in a couple of weeks. Her "come" has improved but on occasion she still has to take a moment to study on the benefits of complying, grr. She just can't resist chasing the barn cats incessantly but never hurts them simply thrilled to have 5 to run from her. She's getting better about doing unrequested cattle herding. She's more careful id the momma cows since they're having babies, she just seems to know its not as safe as it was. Sme with the mares and foals, stays out if their way but visits thru the fence. Couldn't get into a puppy obedience clad before thre virus shut down took effect sho any obedience is just us. Emma goes out in thre morning about 6:30 and stays out till about 10 then can crash till 2. She goes out with the other 2 dogs then and is out till 3-4. Back in to crash till we feed horses again between 6:30-7. Out again at 10 or11 then down for the night.... in bed with me and her sister Annie the Toy Aussie, sometimes Tuffy the tom cat in bad weather. The most tearing up of things is when she's outside. And she goes to the pasture to retrieve sticks and limbs for me to haul off later. Her toys are inside-outside a she wishes but must be in for me to mow. She will chase the deer if the other two go along, same with coyotes much to my dismay. I fear once day they'll go too far...... You see we live at a horse barn on 75 acres and with the huge amount of stimuli she gets all the exercise she needs along with chore time running along side the feed buggy for a quarter mile morning and evening. That allows a slow down of the teen activities. The biggest thing that really was an issue for me was the mouthyness jumping while flying thru the air. I worked on stopping and closing her mouth, fairly firmly, and doing don't bite and making her sit there a minute then pet and praise her, rinse, wash and repeat ad in finnum. It FINALLY took. Her jealousy of the attention between tree other dogs and her from me, or anyone, is ongoing but never nasty sho I simply ignore her while offering the others then give her equal time. It is what it is. Since I never allowed her to jump up to be petted but rather made her sit in front of me before I'll touch her she's never started that. That behavior had transferred to anyone else she meets, thankfully. None of this has been all that stressful or physically demanding, thankfully, so I feel blessed. She's occasionally gotten the zoomies but always out in the barn where she can do laps to her hearts content and not really bother. Feeding has never been a problem since I free feed everyone and the older dogs eat what she eats. I tired suggeste bowls but they all want the same one so it's just one big one kept full and a giant automatic water jug. All's well except for the perpetual lake on the floor. All in all so far so good and after raising dogs since I was a teen I know from experience it can change in a heartbeat, either to the good or the bad. Everyone hang in there with our fur kids. When it gets tough just know "this too will pass". Thank the Lord!


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## PeggyTheParti

I wish Peggy had a farm and 75 acres! She'd love to come play with Emma.  Plus, I imagine all the usual teen "issues" would be rather inconsequential in that setting. A bored poodle is never a good poodle!

Does Emma ever go into town with you? If so, how does she do with new sights and sounds and strangers?


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## Porkchop

Ugh, sometimes Lacey does that when we are in the entryway and I’m getting ready to put either her potty harness or her walking collar on (it’s just a super wide flat collar since loose leash is not on her repitiore yet). Runs back and forth and nips, then throws in ear piercing barks as well. Sometimes I turn around and just go back upstairs and sit on the couch. Sometimes I just plop down on the bench and refuse to look at her or acknowledge her barking and nipping. Every time it’s annoying to have to stay calm and wait it out until focus and calm from her can happen.
Due to her heat, she’s definitely more anxious and alert than usual. But she also tires out super fast too. 
How sad that Peggy killed her first toy. Are you going to keep it for memories? I’m such a hoarder I’ve kept every toy Lacey has destroyed. I really only need to keep the one she came home from the breeder with! I totally get what you mean when you say the dog is up to something when they’re too quiet! Lacey doesn’t care about getting to squeakers or the stuffing inside toys, but she just loves to pick, pick, pick at the seams or any sticky-out parts on stuffed toys. I wish she had at least one she treated nicely.
For dogs that are super smart like Peggy, this is a tough time. I hope your play date goes well. She’ll probably be on cloud nine even if she’s not on her best behavior.


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## jojogal001

I hate to be the one to say this.... but adolescence is never. truly. Gone. Just wait until Peggy (and everyone else's) is about to turn, let's say, 7 years old. Out of NOWHERE comes a playful, puppy type "YIP!", followed by sheer energy induced running around the room, with lots of grrr's and err's and even some I'm-so-tough snarl-like sounds coming from the throat. Then up on the couch, on the table...which has never been allowed... over to the chair, picks up the little pillow and tosses it off the chair, then on the floor to the toy box: reached way down inside that and pulls out a toy not seen in years, and continues said behavior until you are laughing so hard you can't breathe, and your dog comes to rescue you. It has happened to me at least a couple of times a year lol. They just truly, never do, grow up all the way.


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## PeggyTheParti

I made a rookie mistake today and did our short afternoon clicker session with high value treats. Oh boy. 🙄 

She sprinted through everything she's recently mastered and then started barking at me while offering up totally random behaviours. 

"How about this?? This? Thisss? THIS?! Ahhhh! Bark! Bark! Bark! I am sooo frustrated!!!"

Learn from my mistakes: Tailor the reinforcements to the setting and circumstances. Her special treat kibble is perfectly adequate for indoor refresher sessions. Eeeesh. 

At least it was a good reminder of how far she's come. I can't believe those tantrums used to be a regular occurrence. Please let them stay a distance memory.


----------



## Getting ready

I am jealous you have a high value treat that she likes consistently. Last night Noodle turned up his nose at shrimp and filet mignon. Literally. I took a video.


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## PeggyTheParti

Getting ready said:


> I am jealous you have a high value treat that she likes consistently. Last night Noodle turned up his nose at shrimp and filet mignon. Literally. I took a video.


Ha! Really, Noodle?? Who turns up their nose at surf 'n' turf!

These treats are new and therefore highly exciting to Peggy: True Chews "Chicken Pot Pie." We like True Chews for walks because they stay fairly in tact in a pocket or treat pouch, but are soft enough that we can break off little pieces that she can eat on the go. We usually give her the chicken & apple sausage kind.

Other Peggy winners are string cheese and PureBites chicken. She never seems to get tired of either of them. And string cheese is great because I can hold an end and let her nibble if we have to pass by something absolutely thrilling by adolescent poodle standards.


----------



## Fenris-wolf

PeggyTheParti said:


> I am waiting for this day! Peggy loves to eat stuffing. I can't even imagine what she'd do with a squeaker. I'm guessing guard it and then gulp it down.
> 
> Does Sisko eat two meals a day? I've almost given up on giving Peggy breakfast. Sometimes she's hungry around noon. Sometimes around 8pm. Mostly she can't be bothered. And don't even get me started on her drinking habits. Lately if it's not from the toilet, she doesn't want it.


I'm sorry I didn't see this sooner! (My notifications don't work sometimes. Please feel free to PM me if you don't hear back from me) It will come!! It took a while for Sisko. (Like he just started this year!) I would guess that she would do the same thing too.

I divide his meals into 3 and a half servings a day now. Is Peggy eating now? Do you think she should be free fed? Oh, no, how awful that she wants nasty toilet water!!! Is she drinking like she should now?


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## PeggyTheParti

Another old habit just popped up! Peggy used to plop her toys in the tub alllllllll the time. When I finally convinced her to snooze next to the tub instead, it was a MAJOR breakthrough. She's been doing this reliably now for probably about 5 months.

Until tonight.....


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## PeggyTheParti

Fenris-wolf said:


> I'm sorry I didn't see this sooner! (My notifications don't work sometimes. Please feel free to PM me if you don't hear back from me) It will come!! It took a while for Sisko. (Like he just started this year!) I would guess that she would do the same thing too.
> 
> I divide his meals into 3 and a half servings a day now. Is Peggy eating now? Do you think she should be free fed? Oh, no, how awful that she wants nasty toilet water!!! Is she drinking like she should now?


It's totally okay! 

Peggy's been eating well for about a week now, since we started mixing Weruva brand canned chicken into her kibble. She's actually cleaning her bowl, which is kind of amazing. I'm going to start rotating the Weruva flavours to keep her interested. We've also cut back her portion size and are lifting her bowl promptly if she doesn't eat.

Free feeding's just too frustrating with her, and I want her on a solid schedule for when we travel. Whether she's on the road with us or at home with a petsitter, it's important she eats when given the chance.

And no, she's still a terrible drinker. Friggin' poodles. 😂


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## Fenris-wolf

PeggyTheParti said:


> It's totally okay!
> 
> Peggy's been eating well for about a week now, since we started mixing Weruva brand canned chicken into her kibble. She's actually cleaning her bowl, which is kind of amazing. I'm going to start rotating the Weruva flavours to keep her interested. We've also cut back her portion size and are lifting her bowl promptly if she doesn't eat.
> 
> Free feeding's just too frustrating with her, and I want her on a solid schedule for when we travel. Whether she's on the road with us or at home with a petsitter, it's important she eats when given the chance.
> 
> And no, she's still a terrible drinker. Friggin' poodles. 😂


Good, I'm glad to hear that she's been eating again😀! Okay.

Okay. 👍

Yeah😂


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## PeggyTheParti

Peggy destroyed her first human item today (not counting socks or unfortunate hair scrunchies) and I'm buckling up for this next stage of development! Time to re-puppy proof and scale back her freedom a bit. 

It was only a drink coaster, but she took it off a side table when she was alone in the living room, and then had an absolute _party_ with it—even at one point inviting her reflection in the cabinet door to join in. 

My husband heard the commotion and sneakily observed for a minute before Peggy seemed to abruptly decide she'd had enough freedom and ran to his office. She was shocked to see him standing there. 😂

He got a video. I just need to figure out how to share it here.


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## Raindrops

PeggyTheParti said:


> Peggy destroyed her first human item today (not counting socks or unfortunate hair scrunchies) and I'm buckling up for this next stage of development! Time to re-puppy proof and scale back her freedom a bit.
> 
> It was only a drink coaster, but she took it off a side table when she was alone in the living room, and then had an absolute _party_ with it—even at one point inviting her reflection in the cabinet door to join in.
> 
> My husband heard the commotion and sneakily observed for a minute before Peggy seemed to abruptly decide she'd had enough freedom and ran to his office. She was shocked to see him standing there. 😂
> 
> He got a video. I just need to figure out how to share it here.


That sounds very fun for her. The amount of joy in their faces makes it so hard to be mad when they "discover toys."


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## PeggyTheParti

On the eve of her first birthday....

Oh boy. The past few days have brought a new level of adolescence. Peggy just wants to go! go! go! Destroy her toys. Play fetch until she breaks us. Poke around the house until she finds something—anything!—she can get into. Nothing is safe.

Gone are the soulful cuddles.
Gone are the dozen naps a day.
Gone is my sanity.

I started this thread when she was 6 months old, which is rather hilarious to me now. 6-month-old Peggy was just a sleepy pile of fluff compared to this lean, mean, teen machine.

If anyone finds her off switch, let me know, k? We seem to have misplaced it.

Countdown to her third birthday starts NOW.


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## PeggyTheParti

(I'm popping back in to say that Peggy and I just had the most wonderful dance party and we're both feeling a thousand times better. Can you string some of your poodle's behaviours together into a dance? If so, I highly recommend this + some really upbeat music for mutually beneficial stress-busting!!)


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## Raindrops

PeggyTheParti said:


> (I'm popping back in to say that Peggy and I just had the most wonderful dance party and we're both feeling a thousand times better. Can you string some of your poodle's behaviours together into a dance? If so, I highly recommend this + some really upbeat music for mutually beneficial stress-busting!!)


Haha! That sounds great! Hang in there. I'm sure your snuggle-bug will return. Also, remember to enforce those boundaries! If she's acting like a baby you can always show her that you can still treat her like a baby... and she may not like it so much. Stay strong!


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## Porkchop

Happy early 1st birthday, Peggy girl!
Welp, now I know what to look forward to since Lacey is following behind Peggy’s footsteps by about 7 weeks of age.


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## PeggyTheParti

Porkchop said:


> Happy early 1st birthday, Peggy girl!
> Welp, now I know what to look forward to since Lacey is following behind Peggy’s footsteps by about 7 weeks of age.


LOL. Poor you!! 

But who knows.... Lacey might be easy peasy. They all mature differently. And after I typed that last night, Peggy went to sleep and didn't stir until 10am. So I suspect she's been getting overtired and it's time to enforce naps again.


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## PeggyTheParti

Raindrops said:


> Haha! That sounds great! Hang in there. I'm sure your snuggle-bug will return. Also, remember to enforce those boundaries! If she's acting like a baby you can always show her that you can still treat her like a baby... and she may not like it so much. Stay strong!


This is excellent advice, as always. She's definitely been getting a ton of freedom lately, and maybe it's time to scale it back a bit.

As for my snuggle-bug....here's what happened as I started typing this response:










She squeezed her way in and now she's draped across my lap, having her morning nap (which she skipped the last few days).


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## Raindrops

Awww she looks so cute. It is weird how they seem to swing back and forth from devils to angels. All part of growing up I guess.


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## Porkchop

Lacey has always been a force to be reckoned with. When I met her at 5 weeks I could already tell she was over the top compared to her two siblings but I had a hunch she was the one.

I went back with my boyfriend at 6.5 weeks. I got to meet both the mom with the litter as well as the dad separate from the litter. The breeder let us have as much alone time with her as we needed. 

I did a volhard test to the best of my ability since my breeder doesn’t do any temperament testing. I’m not a professional and it was in a somewhat familiar space but she scored mostly 2s. Her personality was very hard headed, persistent, and pushy. I figured I’d be in for some tough love and somewhat difficult training but I was ready to take it on, she was the one. Im pretty hard headed and stubborn myself  

When I told the breeder I wanted Lacey he laughed and asked “are you sure?” half jokingly. I assured him I did. He said “she’s quite the troublemaker, but you’ll have fun with her.”

She tests my patience every day but when training clicks and I get the behavior I want, it is so worth it. 

I have had concerns about what her temperament may turn out to be like once she gets to full adulthood. Id be happy if she stayed the way she is, as she’s never shown any true aggression. 

I will say, I’ve been lulled into a sense of security that lately she’s moved forward more steps than backward. If she ever starts forgoing her naps, into the crate she goes! I still do short periods of time outs in her ex pen/crate area every day

@PeggyTheParti that picture melts my heart. It must feel so nice to wrap your arm around a standard poodle for a hug.


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## PeggyTheParti

Porkchop said:


> I will say, I’ve been lulled into a sense of security that lately she’s moved forward more steps than backward.


I think this is exactly why adolescence can feel so unexpectedly hard sometimes. Even when you know better, it can still feel like training and development should be linear. So you do what I do, granting more and more freedoms, only to realize you've set your dog up to fail.

I think about Peggy's first Christmas. I was sooo careful, and yet she still blew me away with her self-control around all the decorations—so much so that it almost feels like my efforts were overkill. It would be _extremely_ tempting to take fewer precautions with her second Christmas, but that's when you end up with a situation like I had with Gracie: Her second Christmas, she tore open ALL THE PRESENTS while I was out to dinner. 😂 




Porkchop said:


> It must feel so nice to wrap your arm around a standard poodle for a hug.


It's really indescribable. I loved Gracie's little loaf body, and Peggy's super-model limbs still sometimes feel foreign to me. But some sort of poodle magic takes place when she cuddles in close. It never gets old.


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## Porkchop

I can practically feel the magic from your pic!

I wonder if there’s any difference between the size of the dog and when owners start giving more freedom. I know that smaller dogs are supposed to mature faster than bigger dogs. Say you had Peggy at 25 years old. Do you think there would be a difference between when she started to get more freedom compared to Gracie?

Oh my god, I can imagine Gracie going from tentatively pulling off one strip of wrapping paper to just going ham and a flurry of paper and bows flying.


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## PeggyTheParti

Porkchop said:


> I can practically feel the magic from your pic!
> 
> I wonder if there’s any difference between the size of the dog and when owners start giving more freedom. I know that smaller dogs are supposed to mature faster than bigger dogs. Say you had Peggy at 25 years old. Do you think there would be a difference between when she started to get more freedom compared to Gracie?
> 
> Oh my god, I can imagine Gracie going from tentatively pulling off one strip of wrapping paper to just going ham and a flurry of paper and bows flying.


I think it's a combination of maturity and capacity for destruction. Even though Gracie laughed at baby gates, it's much easier to puppy-proof a room (or even a house) for a small dog.

I think the fact that Gracie didn't actually destroy any of the gifts themselves was a testament to her maturity. But even small dogs can struggle with impulse control well into their first few years. I saw a huge shift in Gracie at 3, but ages 5-8 were like a human's 30s: Maximum maturity to health ratio.


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## PeggyTheParti

Peggy was doing wonderfully at the marina today, and then lost her brain and excitedly mouthed a man's hand. I was mortified. He said it was okay, but I noticed him stepping away from her after that. Understandably.

She was fine with every greeting prior to that one, but it was a new, exciting place, with lots of new sights and sounds and smells; I should have kept the visit short. I sensed her going over threshold even before that man approached.

But I got cocky.


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## Fenris-wolf

PeggyTheParti said:


> Peggy was doing wonderfully at the marina today, and then lost her brain and excitedly mouthed a man's hand. I was mortified. He said it was okay, but I noticed him stepping away from her after that. Understandably.
> 
> She was fine with every greeting prior to that one, but it was a new, exciting place, with lots of new sights and sounds and smells; I should have kept the visit short. I sensed her going over threshold even before that man approached.
> 
> But I got cocky.


I'm sorry that that happened to you. I would be mortified too. How did she do with being out still after that? My family and I went to the Seattle Kennel Club dog show. I can't remember what year it was, but I was away from my family talking to one of the handlers and on my way back this very silly Clumber Spaniel with his handler were walking toward me and walking pass me, but this silly thing put my whole hand in his mouth! And his handler was like, I'm so sorry! And I was like it's okay 😁 I was okay with it, but no one expected that to happen and I was like 😐

I know that feeling! It's the you should be great at this, so let's try this! I do it with Sisko😔


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## Raindrops

PeggyTheParti said:


> Peggy was doing wonderfully at the marina today, and then lost her brain and excitedly mouthed a man's hand. I was mortified. He said it was okay, but I noticed him stepping away from her after that. Understandably.
> 
> She was fine with every greeting prior to that one, but it was a new, exciting place, with lots of new sights and sounds and smells; I should have kept the visit short. I sensed her going over threshold even before that man approached.
> 
> But I got cocky.


It happens... puppies will be puppies. I can never understand what makes Misha ignore most people then go nuts with excitement for a few. I think we've all been in situations like that.


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## PeggyTheParti

Fenris-wolf said:


> I'm sorry that that happened to you. I would be mortified too. How did she do with being out still after that? My family and I went to the Seattle Kennel Club dog show. I can't remember what year it was, but I was away from my family talking to one of the handlers and on my way back this very silly Clumber Spaniel with his handler were walking toward me and walking pass me, but this silly thing put my whole hand in his mouth! And his handler was like, I'm so sorry! And I was like it's okay 😁 I was okay with it, but no one expected that to happen and I was like 😐
> 
> I know that feeling! It's the you should be great at this, so let's try this! I do it with Sisko😔


I love Clumber Spaniels! I've never actually met one in person, but I'd be happy if it put my hand in its mouth. Lol.

One thing I've noticed about adolescence is you still have to stay one step ahead of your poodle. Peggy rarely puts herself down for a nap if there's any action going on. She wants to be in the middle of it all. So it's up to me to see when she's nearing her limit.


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## PeggyTheParti

Raindrops said:


> It happens... puppies will be puppies. I can never understand what makes Misha ignore most people then go nuts with excitement for a few. I think we've all been in situations like that.


Isn't it strange? It's like they pick up on some invisible signal.

I had a male dachshund-poodle mix named Tucker that my parents eventually ended up taking. (He was my dad's heart dog.) Despite not being a terrier, he had a _real_ terrier temperament. Peggy actually reminds me of him sometimes.

I vividly recall puppy Tucker hopping up to "hold" a toddler's hand and the dad telling me off. That humiliating moment still stings.....almost 20 years later!

What I _should_ have said to the dad was, "I'm extremely sorry, but also: Don't let your toddler run up to strange dogs! Especially puppies!"

Tucker never really grew out of that, so I guess I worry Peggy will be the same. It happens so rarely, it feels impossible to prevent without keeping her away from people altogether.


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## Fenris-wolf

PeggyTheParti said:


> I love Clumber Spaniels! I've never actually met one in person, but I'd be happy if it put my hand in its mouth. Lol.
> 
> One thing I've noticed about adolescence is you still have to stay one step ahead of your poodle. Peggy rarely puts herself down for a nap if there's any action going on. She wants to be in the middle of it all. So it's up to me to see when she's nearing her limit.


Lol. It was pretty cute. There might be specialty shows that have only Clumber Spaniels that you could go to.

Ohhhhhh, yeah! That's so true. She will get better and take a nap herself. It wasn't until last month that Sisko decided he could sleep if there was any action going on. He would stay up past his bedtime and would be a PAIN to deal with the next day.


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## Raindrops

PeggyTheParti said:


> Isn't it strange? It's like they pick up on some invisible signal.
> 
> I had a male dachshund-poodle mix named Tucker that my parents eventually ended up taking. (He was my dad's heart dog.) Despite not being a terrier, he had a _real_ terrier temperament. Peggy actually reminds me of him sometimes.
> 
> I vividly recall puppy Tucker hopping up to "hold" a toddler's hand and the dad telling me off. That humiliating moment still stings.....almost 20 years later!
> 
> What I _should_ have said to the dad was, "I'm extremely sorry, but also: Don't let your toddler run up to strange dogs! Especially puppies!"
> 
> Tucker never really grew out of that, so I guess I worry Peggy will be the same. It happens so rarely, it feels impossible to prevent without keeping her away from people altogether.


I feel the same way. I wouldn't be surprised to see Misha do the same thing. When he was younger he got super excited to see an older lady he sees regularly. She walked around a corner and surprised him and bent down to see him. He was already playing and leaped at her with excitement and caught her hand in his mouth. She had very thin skin and he managed to actually break the skin a bit with a tooth. I was shocked because he had never broken skin before and it was just a mistake of force. But I felt very bad. She knew he was playing and wasn't upset but I still feel very bad thinking of it.


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## PeggyTheParti

Peggy made my parents bleed a few times when they visited over Christmas. Their skin is so delicate, and her excited puppy mouthing definitely took a toll. I felt terrible.

My poor 80-something neighbour has some friends with a full-grown doodle that makes him bleed every time he goes to their house. He says they just laugh it off. Eek. He showed me all the marks and I vowed right then and there that Peggy would _never_ be so ill-behaved.

Ha! Easier said than done, right?

I wish she'd try it at one of our weekly play dates, so our trainer could see. But of course that would be too simple. Our trainer has this great technique where she feeds treats just below hip level before Peggy even has a chance to jump. Two weeks in a row of that and she hasn't jumped on her since.


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## Fenris-wolf

There is NO WAY that I would laugh off a full-grown doodle mouthing me. That's completely unacceptable especially if the doodle is leaving marks. Yeah, I feel you on that. It is easier said than done, but you will be happy that you did!!

Wow!! You guys are having classes again??


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## PeggyTheParti

Fenris-wolf said:


> You guys are having classes again??


I wish! But no. Just a few of us who've become friends, standing far away from each other in a field, wearing masks, while the dogs play. 

When she gets back up and running, it'll just be puppy classes at first because there's such an urgent need. And only outdoors.


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## Fenris-wolf

That's still awesome😀


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## Fenris-wolf

Sisko had been doing well with leash pulling for a little bit, but he has been horrible! It's not fun taking him out and we stopped taking our walks because his pulling and my ankle is bothering me because. It's very upsetting 😞😢


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## PeggyTheParti

Fenris-wolf said:


> Sisko had been doing well with leash pulling for a little bit, but he has been horrible! It's not fun taking him out and we stopped taking our walks because his pulling and my ankle is bothering me because. It's very upsetting 😞😢


I'm sorry.  I'm not sure I'll ever get used to those abrupt adolescent setbacks. 

Have you found a good exercise outlet for him? Those walks are going to be a lot more pleasant if he's getting daily opportunities to really burn off that adolescent energy. 

Peggy just ran full-speed for 5 minutes and then basically passed out. Lol.


----------



## Fenris-wolf

PeggyTheParti said:


> I'm sorry.  I'm not sure I'll ever get used to those abrupt adolescent setbacks.
> 
> Have you found a good exercise outlet for him? Those walks are going to be a lot more pleasant if he's getting daily opportunities to really burn off that adolescent energy.
> 
> Peggy just ran full-speed for 5 minutes and then basically passed out. Lol.


I hear you. I don't think I will either. It's can be really hard to deal with.

The flirt pole would be great, but he still loves to sniff around instead of playing with the flirt pole. He still pulls after I try to burn off that energy😢 the only place that he will run around full-speed at is the dog park, but he will pull even there after running around. I'm still waiting for our new trainer to re-open too.

Lol did she run around your yard?


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Fenris-wolf said:


> I hear you. I don't think I will either. It's can be really hard to deal with.
> 
> The flirt pole would be great, but he still loves to sniff around instead of playing with the flirt pole. He still pulls after I try to burn off that energy😢 the only place that he will run around full-speed at is the dog park, but he will pull even there after running around. I'm still waiting for our new trainer to re-open too.
> 
> Lol did she run around your yard?


You could try playing some games with him that encourage him to run. I like to ask Peggy to stay, build the suspense, and then release her. I can usually get her zooming around if I'm enthusiastic enough. Then "Wait!" And we repeat the game. I see her playing it by herself sometimes in the yard. Lol.

Of course, she still pulls on walks, too, sometimes. Walking with her is only ever truly relaxing on a very long leash, on an empty trail.


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## Fenris-wolf

Lol. That's so cute! I might be able to do that. I can get him running around the house if I run away from him and then call him and keep doing it. I'm starting to think that he thinks it's not okay to run on leash unless I'm running too, and I can't run for long right now. I need to get in shape, and I have asthma.


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## Fenris-wolf

Okay, wish us luck! I pulled out Sisko's Freedom Harness to try again too.


----------



## Fenris-wolf

The Freedom Harness works now!! I might have been putting it on the wrong way. Lol🤣🤣 l. It works better than the Sporn Harness, but he was a giant brat when he found out that he couldn't pull, so he tried to pull very hard towards some spots, ate some grass, and also bit on the leash for the harness. I told him he was being a jerk and he stopped.


----------



## Fenris-wolf

I don't know why, but Sisko had been a giant jerk today. He has been doing so well, but today he thinks he shouldn't listen to me, and he should pull while outside. I'm frustrated and just want to stay away from him for today.


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## PeggyTheParti

Aw! I was just telling you in another thread how impressed I am with you both. And today's setback doesn't change that.

No matter how wonderful our dogs are, there will always be days where we're not on the same wavelength. I totally know that feeling of not wanting to be around them. Deep breaths. It's almost tomorrow.


----------



## Fenris-wolf

PeggyTheParti said:


> Aw! I was just telling you in another thread how impressed I am with you both. And today's setback doesn't change that.
> 
> No matter how wonderful our dogs are, there will always be days where we're not on the same wavelength. I totally know that feeling of not wanting to be around them. Deep breaths. It's almost tomorrow.


Thank you, very much, PTP! This means so much to me when you and everyone else here on PF help and support me. I wish to pay it back somehow some day. I'm crying right now because of your kindness. I took some deep breaths and feel better now. It is almost tomorrow  I'm about to have a cup of tea too.


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## PeggyTheParti

That's the best kind of cry! Let out all the other stuff and make room for the kindness. We're here for you.


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## Fenris-wolf

PeggyTheParti said:


> That's the best kind of cry! Let out all the other stuff and make room for the kindness. We're here for you.


Is it okay to write this down as a life quote please? I can add your name too if you like and that okay with you too. Thank you 💗


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## PeggyTheParti

Fenris-wolf said:


> Is it okay to write this down as a life quote please? I can add your name too if you like and that okay with you too. Thank you 💗


Of course


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## Fenris-wolf

PeggyTheParti said:


> Of course


Thank you


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## Fenris-wolf

Sisko is still how he was yesterday😔 I made sure to cry.


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## Fenris-wolf

Instead of going forward we're going backwards. I'm still doing the basics with Sisko and for right now he has not gotten better at all and is regressing. He wouldn't even poop because the was a car parking and he was too distracted. (Sisko had gotten to the point where he didn't care if there was a car parking. We're taking him to the vet on the 30th and I'll talk to them to see what we can do.

I feel like rehoming him at this point right now because this has been extremely stressful for only me since no one else does anything with him and don't deal with him, but my mom said if I rehome him I won't be able to get another dog. I'm so frustrated and actually angry right now. The fun having a dog should out weigh the stress, right?????


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## Mufar42

I think instead of getting frustrated with Sisko is to accept him for now as he is. Relax and enjoy him and play with him. He may not be the boy who is so very well trained. Or it may come much much later. Renn is like that. I'm older have had many dogs, have gone to many many training classes and I could go on. He is not like others the I have had and is much more high strung. But I do love him. No one can work with him if I am around, but you know what thats their fault for not taking time with him as a puppy. He is totally bonded to me and if I am present nothing is going to stop him from being next to me. Is this what I wanted, no but its what I got. When he turned 2 he became a bit more manageable and wanted to learn now at 2 1/2 he is even better. But yes he still has issues. He may not ever be the boy I can take everywhere with me (maybe I could if I were physically stronger). But he really is a good dog. He is a basic dog, does all the sit down, stay etc but he is active high energy guy. We work in baby steps. Right now my daughter is walking him each night he is NOT as reactive for her when she walks though clinic that we visited a few months ago said he is just protective of me, so she took his leash walked him away from me said he was fine, she ws even able to lie him on his back and do a ultra sound on his belly without any aid of sedation. The other tech didn't think she could do this. So its all there is just a matter of finding what works. Enjoy him play with him add a little training for 5 min then go back to play. Go back and forth with that . I also find if I do the same thing over n over he anticipates it. Right now he knows he gets to play orly morning, if I have something to do and can't he will whine the he is in his area he wants to be out with me. But he is slowly learning. You will get there. I think poodles are just different...they re more energetic, so smart that they get bored easily doing the same things over and over. So play, and each day mix it up. Anyway that is just some of my opinions, I'm no pro but have had dogs and worked with them for 50 years. Most were at least well behaved as pets.


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## Liz

^ That's good advice from Mufar, and you're doing a great job. Progress isn't linear.

Sometimes you get spoiled by a dog who is so easy to train, that you begin to think you are a good trainer, when really it is the dog. Then you get to something that the dog doesn't pick up quickly, and you realize that this is when you're tested as a trainer. Maybe you give up, but maybe you get creative, learn different ways to break down the behavior, different games to reinforce the behavior, work on your timing and accuracy, and suddenly it all clicks for you both. 95% of training is training the human.


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## Mufar42

I just realized half my message is gone, I'm hitting something on my keyboard that is deleting sentences so...I'm not redoing it so hopefulling I don't confuse y'all too much.


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## PeggyTheParti

Some of the best behaved dogs would stop mid-poop if there was a car backing up towards them, or if a stranger was getting out. Pooping is a very vulnerable moment. 

When will you be working with the trainer you mentioned? I say let go of all expectations until then, and—like Mufar said—just relax and enjoy him. Pretend he's a rescue dog that just appeared in your life. Focus on keeping his world stable and joyful.


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## Fenris-wolf

PeggyTheParti said:


> Some of the best behaved dogs would stopped mid-poop if there was a car backing up towards them, or if a stranger was getting out. Pooping is a very vulnerable moment.
> 
> When will you be working with the trainer you mentioned? I say let go of all expectations until then, and—like Mufar said—just relax and enjoy him. Pretend he's a rescue dog that just appeared in your life. Focus on keeping his world stable and joyful.


That's true!  I guess I did get spoiled by Dax. She was a legendary monster puppy at first, but then when we took her to training she turned into the best dog.

I don't know 😔 I sent her a email and never got a response back. I think I will have to find someone else now. Okay! That's a great way of looking at it. Okay, I will. I have a question, I tried running with him yesterday and he was pulling even with his Freedom Harness while running and walking, and my ankle still hasn't had the chance to heal, but I'm working on it. Should I just go on long walks with him instead?


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## Fenris-wolf

PTP were you talking about the new new trainer😳? She said that I'm too far away and they're not taking new clients. I looking for another trainer right now as I type this.


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## For Want of Poodle

Fenris- I cant run with Annie on leash without her going nuts either. It's a pity you dont have anywhere local to take him where he can just run off leash. Without wild and crazy running time at least once, preferably twice or more a week, Annie is an unmanageable monster too. 

If you want to teach him to run on leash, maybe practice with his long line in a field? That's what Annie and I have been doing. A 10 ft line, and if she hits the end, I change direction unpredictably. Its helping, but I still wouldnt run with her on a city street. 

Does sniff spot have anything near you? Somewhere you could rent someone's yard for an hour? Nothing near my apartment, but I keep checking. Maybe a friend with a fenced backyard? Or maybe post a wanted ad and see if someone is willing to rent you theirs? 

Good luck finding a trainer, it can be so hard!


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## PeggyTheParti

Sniff Spot's a great idea. I'd rent one a few times a week for good free play sessions and then just focus on loose-leash wanders the rest of the time.


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## Fenris-wolf

For Want of Poodle said:


> Fenris- I cant run with Annie on leash without her going nuts either. It's a pity you dont have anywhere local to take him where he can just run off leash. Without wild and crazy running time at least once, preferably twice or more a week, Annie is an unmanageable monster too.
> 
> If you want to teach him to run on leash, maybe practice with his long line in a field? That's what Annie and I have been doing. A 10 ft line, and if she hits the end, I change direction unpredictably. Its helping, but I still wouldnt run with her on a city street.
> 
> Does sniff spot have anything near you? Somewhere you could rent someone's yard for an hour? Nothing near my apartment, but I keep checking. Maybe a friend with a fenced backyard? Or maybe post a wanted ad and see if someone is willing to rent you theirs?
> 
> Good luck finding a trainer, it can be so hard!


Noooooo😫 what do you do instead since you can't run with her? I only have that dog park, but my mom doesn't want to give up a Saturday to visit her BF. I'm reading the WA driving manual. After I learn to drive, I want to take him there at least 3 times out of the week. It sounds like Annie and Sisko would have an awesome time if we were closer.

Yes! I could do that. I'm glad to hear it's helping! I wouldn't do it with Sisko either. 

I just checked Sniffspot and they don't have anything close by😔 my apartment either. I'll keep checking too. I don't feel comfortable placing ads like that unless I knew the person.

Thank you😁!


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## For Want of Poodle

If I cant take her for a run.... I go insane, as she gradually gets nuttier, and then I break down and make it work. She is pretty off leash reliable, so at my moms, when the dog park was closed due to covid, I took her either to a dead end st in the middle of nowhere leading to an abandoned mine, and let her run, or went to the local conservation area or some family owned property with trails an hour away, or a local soccer field, or, believe it or not, the empty section at the local cemetary (it's not just me! I swear! Lots of locals use it as an offleash park, and we always find dog toys when we are there).
At my apartment, I either took her to the dog park (dont like the one nearby though) or a local abandoned train yard, or one ofthe local parks with a field that's scarcely used. I usually just let her drag a 50' line and dont let her get far enough I cant grab or step on the rope. Having a car and/or living in a rural area is a pretty huge help with doing any of those though...

Do you have a bike? They are very expensive, but I wonder if one of those bike dog attachments might work for Sisko... I have been working with Annie in the evenings and she is starting to like hers.


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## Fenris-wolf

I don't have a bike right now, but when I save up money from pet-sitting I will. I'd be nervous taking him biking because he might pull us and I don't trust him not to pull us into the road, but I'm still going to look at the bike attachments.


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## Fenris-wolf

@For Want of Poodle what attachment do you use? I found these 5 Best Dog Leashes for Biking: Riding Alongside Your Pooch!


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## For Want of Poodle

Fenris-wolf said:


> @For Want of Poodle what attachment do you use? I found these 5 Best Dog Leashes for Biking: Riding Alongside Your Pooch!


 I have a Springer. I really like it. The U shape curve and the heavy spring means I dont feel it if she pulls almost at all. I bought it back in high school for another dog with some of my first job money.

It doesnt fit either of my current bikes well though (cyclocross bike and a mountain bike with a weird frame shape). It would fit on the seat posts, but I have short legs and I wouldnt be able to touch the ground if I put the seat post that high!!! I have been considering selling my mountain bike (which is an expensive bike I picked up on garbage day a few years ago and is too big for me really) and getting a smaller framed bike that would fit the springer better.


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## Phoebe’sMom

Fenris-wolf said:


> I don't have a bike right now, but when I save up money from pet-sitting I will. I'd be nervous taking him biking because he might pull us and I don't trust him not to pull us into the road, but I'm still going to look at the bike attachments.


I use a waist attached leash when I run or bike with my GSD and am slowly teaching Phoebe to use it as well. I like this option as the dog is connected to me and not my bike, it also allows you to run without holding a leash in one hand. I found Phoebe does not pull while we run with using this but will pull on a standard clip leash if we run but i might just be having a lucky streak. I included a similar one I use from Chew-








TUFF MUTT Hands-Free Bungee Leash, Gray & Blue - Chewy.com


Buy Tuff Mutt Hands-Free Bungee Leash, Gray & Blue at Chewy.com. FREE shipping and the BEST customer service!




www.chewy.com


----------



## McSuzie

PeggyTheParti said:


> dogsavvy, you're so right! Rather than fighting natural behaviours, it's really helpful to give them an outlet. That's why Peggy's x-pen looks like a garbage dump some days. Shredding, snuffling, chewing, digging, burying....she does it all in there.
> 
> And then it's outside for the zoomies! She tucks her tail and GOES.


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## McSuzie

If this is the puppy support group may I join pleeeeeaze?


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## For Want of Poodle

McSuzie - Welcome to Poodle Forum  Yes, of course you can join this thread! You can also start your own thread with whatever issues you're having - I have approximately 5 million of them about my lovely-but-occasionally-exasperating girl. Sometimes people ignore the long running threads, so you may get more help if you start one.


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## PeggyTheParti

McSuzie said:


> If this is the puppy support group may I join pleeeeeaze?


Yes!! 

I started it specifically for those of us navigating the adolescent months (years, in some cases!) but all are welcome. You can also always start your own thread about any issue that's currently challenging you. That's often the best way to capture the most helpful eyeballs.

Or you can even start a "diary" type thread to track your puppy's and your progress. It can be very cathartic.


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## Dianaleez

Normie and I have progressed from the 'my new puppy is so cute' thread to this 'omg! adolescence' thread. I read and absorbed each and every word and even read some aloud to Norm. 

This is where we belong now.

Thanks for the stories and ideas gleaned. We're going to move him up one crate size to see if he sleeps a bit later and try the Pryor clicker method. 

And it's good to know that I'm not the only one whose well-trained poodle is running in mad circles through the house at 6 PM.

I'll appreciate the good days and survive the others.


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## PeggyTheParti

Dianaleez said:


> This is where we belong now.


Thanks for always making me chuckle. 

I've learned not to fight the evening zoomies, as they typically result in a poop and a much deeper snooze. We've learned to time her dinner so she digests while we eat ours and clean up. Then we can safely release her to go nuts in the backyard before it's time to settle in for the evening.

And Peggy really was so obviously grateful for the larger crate. We went up two sizes, and the only time she's woken us up since then was yesterday when she urgently needed to release a _ton_ of diarrhea. I'm still so amazed she held it long enough to get outside. I know that won't always be the case.

I suspect you'll actually have a lot of fun with Normie's adolescence, as the progress can be quite gratifying. Those good days and breakthroughs can sustain you through a lot of the less desirables. And we're here for you when you need a little extra boost.


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## Fenris-wolf

Welcome @McSuzie!


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## Fenris-wolf

Hi, @Dianaleez!


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## CaSpooFan

This thread is keeping me sane. My boy will be 1 year on the 31st and I can't wait for him to calm down. He settles so easily, but has his moments, like jumping in the air when excited, or sometimes when I'm on a video Zoom meeting he stands behind me (yes, stands) and paws my head to get tell me he's ready for a walk. Not to mention the greeting committee where he has to say hi to any and every dog that comes in his sight, and to do so he will either sit down, jump on me repeatedly, or jump and lunge at them repeatedly (which really makes them feel great given his already 65# stature). Or heaven forbid I leave him with someone while I say, go use the bathroom, he shrieks and cries the entire time.
But to get to the point, training is IMPOSSIBLE! Help. SOS. Not food motivated, can't be distracted from the object of this affection, can't be persuaded to do anything he doesn't want to do (lifting him into the car is getting SO old)....
Also will the separation anxiety get any better when he's fully grown or am I looking at years of doggy day care?


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## Fenris-wolf

CaSpooFan said:


> This thread is keeping me sane. My boy will be 1 year on the 31st and I can't wait for him to calm down. He settles so easily, but has his moments, like jumping in the air when excited, or sometimes when I'm on a video Zoom meeting he stands behind me (yes, stands) and paws my head to get tell me he's ready for a walk. Not to mention the greeting committee where he has to say hi to any and every dog that comes in his sight, and to do so he will either sit down, jump on me repeatedly, or jump and lunge at them repeatedly (which really makes them feel great given his already 65# stature). Or heaven forbid I leave him with someone while I say, go use the bathroom, he shrieks and cries the entire time.
> But to get to the point, training is IMPOSSIBLE! Help. SOS. Not food motivated, can't be distracted from the object of this affection, can't be persuaded to do anything he doesn't want to do (lifting him into the car is getting SO old)....
> Also will the separation anxiety get any better when he's fully grown or am I looking at years of doggy day care?


Hi! I'm sorry you're going through this 😣. I know how stressful this can be. Have looked into any good trainers? Do you know what to look for in a good trainer? Do you have a Freedom Harness for him so he can't pull? Tell people not to smile or laugh or anything else that might reinforce that behavior and just to either ignore him or walk away when he goes crazy trying to greet them. What kind of treats have you used? You should try a lot of different ones and see if he likes any of them. We can suggest some if you like. A trainer should help you out with separation anxiety and training if you're struggling. I'm struggling with mine and we're going to a trainer hopefully next month.


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## Fenris-wolf

How do you have fun with him?


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## CaSpooFan

Hi Fenris, Covid has made the trainer question very hard! I have been trying to get him enrolled in a training program but it hasn't happened yet. We try all kinds of treats, it's just once something's caught his attention it's really hard to break his focus. For fun we play fetch and tug at home, but he's too distracted to play when we're out and about. He did really well at the field playing fetch the other day only to be the complete opposite the next day. I guess I need to keep trying.


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## For Want of Poodle

For separation anxiety- no need for food to work on it. I highly recommend Patricia McConnels booklet "I'll be home soon".
For treats- just to check, have you tried AWESOME treats? Tiny bits of chicken, sandwich meat, leftover roast, cheese,etc? Even most not food motivated dogs will work for real food. If that doesnt work, then I would suggest training with a toy. The trick is (and i struggle with this too) to catch their attention BEFORE they are enraptured with whatever. Lots of people recommend the Look at That game (LAT) which you can google.


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## CaSpooFan

Yes, we've tried a lot of real food, nothing has really let me 'lure' him but string cheese is a definite leader. He loves fish treats but I think they upset his stomach. I do try to catch him before he sees the object of his affection but sometimes it's hard. Perhaps I will start carrying his wubba with us on a walk but I'm not sure it will help either. When he's enraptured he is very enraptured.


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## For Want of Poodle

I struggle with this too, so am not much help. Try LAT. It is supposed to teach your dog to havean easier time recovering from a distraction by starting in an easy environment then progressing to harder distractions and harder locations. With Annie, RAW beef is her highest value treat, as fish makes her throw up too. Strangely, I seldom bring raw beef on walks though.


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## McSuzie

CaSpooFan said:


> Yes, we've tried a lot of real food, nothing has really let me 'lure' him but string cheese is a definite leader. He loves fish treats but I think they upset his stomach. I do try to catch him before he sees the object of his affection but sometimes it's hard. Perhaps I will start carrying his wubba with us on a walk but I'm not sure it will help either. When he's enraptured he is very enraptured.


Stewart’s freeze dried liver treats have been a big hit here! Quincy was not treat motivated prior to trying them


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## Raindrops

McSuzie said:


> Stewart’s freeze dried liver treats have been a big hit here! Quincy was not treat motivated prior to trying them


It is great that you found a treat he likes. Just be careful with the quantity! They can result in very loose stools because liver is quite rich.


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## McSuzie

Raindrops said:


> It is great that you found a treat he likes. Just be careful with the quantity! They can result in very loose stools because liver is quite rich.


Yes! I also purchased their freeze dried chicken breast which is a big hit as well!


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## PeggyTheParti

CaSpooFan said:


> When he's enraptured he is very enraptured.


I'm currently reading a book called _Fired_ _Up_, _Frantic_, _and_ _Freaked_ _Out_, which talks about this exact thing. The author, Laura VanArendonk Baugh, compares it to someone asking you to do a simple math problem while you're being held up at gunpoint. With your adrenaline racing, at best you'd give them a hasty, exasperated glance, like, "What?????" More likely you wouldn't even register what they'd asked. And even if you did, the answer wouldn't come to you easily like it would in normal circumstances.

I'm finding it really interesting so far. At the very least, it's made clear to me that our teenage poodles are not "being stubborn" or purposely ignoring us. Just that little shift in understanding gives me loads more patience.

It's also got me reconsidering the idea that I just need to be more exciting than whatever thrilling stimuli has Peggy over-threshold. If I were hurtling down a steep drop on a rollercoaster, and someone offered me my favourite food on earth, I'd think they were nuts.

We have a tendency to push Peggy too far at a park we like to go to. We consistently get her too close to the action—people playing soccer, kids screaming, dogs and cars coming from all directions. Every time I say we NEED to stay further back, and each time I think Peggy's been doing _soooo_ _well_, she'll be _fiiiine_.

Spoiler Alert: She never is. But if we stopped just 100 more feet away, she probably would be. And then we could slowly close the gap with each subsequent visit, slowly inching our way down that rollercoaster hill, rather than hurtling down at full speed.


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## Fenris-wolf

Maybe you guys can find a trainer who will do Zoom meetings


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## Fenris-wolf

Have you tried hot dogs?


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## McSuzie

Fenris-wolf said:


> Have you tried hot dogs?


Lol I made hot dogs for Quincys training session but I took out the mustard and ate them before the session!


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## Fenris-wolf

McSuzie said:


> Lol I made hot dogs for Quincys training session but I took out the mustard and ate them before the session!


Lol!


----------



## Dianaleez

PeggyTheParti said:


> Thanks for always making me chuckle.
> 
> I've learned not to fight the evening zoomies, as they typically result in a poop and a much deeper snooze. We've learned to time her dinner so she digests while we eat ours and clean up. Then we can safely release her to go nuts in the backyard before it's time to settle in for the evening.
> 
> And Peggy really was so obviously grateful for the larger crate. We went up two sizes, and the only time she's woken us up since then was yesterday when she urgently needed to release a _ton_ of diarrhea. I'm still so amazed she held it long enough to get outside. I know that won't always be the case.
> 
> I suspect you'll actually have a lot of fun with Normie's adolescence, as the progress can be quite gratifying. Those good days and breakthroughs can sustain you through a lot of the less desirables. And we're here for you when you need a little extra boost.


We think the next door teen must have a fast-food job that requires him to leave at 5 AM. That's Normie's 5 AM alarm. But here's his reaction to his larger crate:


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## Porkchop

@Dianaleez

You are one of THE funniest people here on poodle forum. I always appreciate your posts, they make me see my day differently and chuckle.
Your maturity and life experience is greatly appreciated besides your humor. I’m sure the first paragraph of my post is unnecessary.

Even though this is a bigger crate for Normie, it still doesn’t look big enough for him to be comfortable. His crate should really allow him the length of his nose to tail relaxed, plus 2-4.” And at least 4” taller than the top of his ears when he’s sitting upright.

Lacey has a 30” L, 19” W, 21” H crate as an 8.5lb dog. She’s about 12.5” tall at the shoulders and 14” long from the withers to the rump. The breeder recommended this size crate knowing the size she’d end up being.

I just wanted to mention it to make sure Normie is comfy in is crate, although he probably doesn’t have to have the door closed except once in a blue moon.


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## Mufar42

Renn's crate was a 48 inch., left over from our previous boxer...By the time he reached 2 he was no longer comfortable in it and one day he said ah nope..I'm not going in there .so he ended up gated in my dining room/foyer area, where he still goes at night. The crates are all backed away or given away. Renn will be 3 in 
December he recently received "his brain". Last night my daughter walked him, loose leash but he didn't get overly excited when he saw someone approaching, he sat at her side willed some until she actually petted him and he stayed seated even when she walked away. That is huge for him. Maybe it was an accident lol.


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## Dianaleez

Normie's new crate bought us an extra hour's sleep this morning. We'll have to consider upgrading to a larger one, but once he's 'trustworthy' he'll be spending his nights on the sofa or my chair or even in his dog bed.


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## PeggyTheParti

Today is a REAL teen day. Eeeeesh.

She hasn't done this in a while, but today Peggy would prefer to fall asleep _sitting up_ than let down her guard for even a second:










(Asleep for approximately 4 seconds because an airplane might fly by and she has to watch the window for it.)

She also refused to lie down (!!!!) when I gave her that most basic cue. And then she wedged herself in the 6" between me and the arm of the couch before collapsing dramatically on top of me. Why? Because she wanted to go outside to her swimming pool.

But when I opened the backdoor, do you think she stopped at the threshold like she's been doing reliably for months?

Of course not. 

So back inside. 
Wait.
Okay, now go.

Praying to the Poodle Gods for patience.


----------



## McSuzie

She’s such a pretty girl!!


----------



## PeggyTheParti

McSuzie said:


> She’s such a pretty girl!!


Ugh. Want her? Lol.

(Just kidding.)


(Kinda.)


----------



## McSuzie

PeggyTheParti said:


> Ugh. Want her? Lol.
> 
> (Just kidding.)
> 
> 
> (Kinda.)


Wanna trade?? Asking for a friend.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

McSuzie said:


> Wanna trade?? Asking for a friend.


Maybe just for the rest of today? I'm getting awfully close to just flinging the gate open and letting her fend for herself. 

Godspeed, Peggy!


----------



## Fenris-wolf

I'll take her! Not one of those days. I'm sorry. Has her stomach been upset today? I wonder if her stomach being upset and her being highly alert are related.

Sisko has been a bit of a nightmare all month long, (we only had one great day this month) he has been so needy, and clingy, and he hasn't been listening like he should, but I now believe that this is all something medical, because I have been training him like I should, and he is breathing strange(that started last night), something just isn't right.

Does she have any Yakky chews or anything to stuff in her Kong and freeze. I would put her in her X-pen with a Yakky chew or frozen Kong, and take a break from her if you can.


----------



## Dianaleez

We're doing the door thing too. Normie bounces at the door, then when we open it, he goes back into the house and watches. Repeat 5 minutes later.

I think that he wants the entire pack to go into the backyard at the same time. 

We thought that he'd been frightened outside, so on Sunday morning we sat outside with him and drank our morning coffee. He played and seemed happy. He zipped up and down the stairs all day Sunday.

On Monday, we had door games again. So I went down with him again today and we've had 50/50 success at the door.

I'm beginning to think it's a control issue. He wants to be in charge. 

There's no way I would trust him with a doggy door, but I can see its appeal.


----------



## HannahMarieJ

PeggyTheParti said:


> Maybe just for the rest of today? I'm getting awfully close to just flinging the gate open and letting her fend for herself.
> 
> Godspeed, Peggy!
> 
> View attachment 468484


Oh my gosh, is that a sliding glass door with a doggie door in the bottom? I've searched high and low for one of those and have had a heck of a time finding anything reasonable. Not to derail the hilarious conversation about puppy adolescence, but can you share where you found this???


----------



## PeggyTheParti

HannahMarieJ said:


> Oh my gosh, is that a sliding glass door with a doggie door in the bottom? I've searched high and low for one of those and have had a heck of a time finding anything reasonable. Not to derail the hilarious conversation about puppy adolescence, but can you share where you found this???


Aw. I wish I could help! It was already here when we bought the house five years ago. Was the perfect size for our last girl, but she wanted nothing to do with it.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Dianaleez said:


> We're doing the door thing too. Normie bounces at the door, then when we open it, he goes back into the house and watches. Repeat 5 minutes later.
> 
> I think that he wants the entire pack to go into the backyard at the same time.
> 
> We thought that he'd been frightened outside, so on Sunday morning we sat outside with him and drank our morning coffee. He played and seemed happy. He zipped up and down the stairs all day Sunday.
> 
> On Monday, we had door games again. So I went down with him again today and we've had 50/50 success at the door.
> 
> I'm beginning to think it's a control issue. He wants to be in charge.
> 
> There's no way I would trust him with a doggy door, but I can see its appeal.


I think they just like to be close to us. 

At least Peggy will quietly wait at the door when she's outside. That's something she seemed to grasp instantly as a puppy. If she was a door barker, I'd have lost my mind long ago.


----------



## McSuzie

Fenris-wolf said:


> I'll take her! Not one of those days. I'm sorry. Has her stomach been upset today? I wonder if her stomach being upset and her being highly alert are related.
> 
> Sisko has been a bit of a nightmare all month long, (we only had one great day this month) he has been so needy, and clingy, and he hasn't been listening like he should, but I now believe that this is all something medical, because I have been training him like I should, and he is breathing strange(that started last night), something just isn't right.
> 
> Does she have any Yakky chews or anything to stuff in her Kong and freeze. I would put her in her X-pen with a Yakky chew or frozen Kong, and take a break from her if you can.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Fenris-wolf said:


> I'll take her! Not one of those days. I'm sorry. Has her stomach been upset today? I wonder if her stomach being upset and her being highly alert are related.
> 
> Sisko has been a bit of a nightmare all month long, (we only had one great day this month) he has been so needy, and clingy, and he hasn't been listening like he should, but I now believe that this is all something medical, because I have been training him like I should, and he is breathing strange(that started last night), something just isn't right.
> 
> Does she have any Yakky chews or anything to stuff in her Kong and freeze. I would put her in her X-pen with a Yakky chew or frozen Kong, and take a break from her if you can.


My husband took her out for an "adventure" in the Costco parking lot, and now she's snoozing hard in her crate. It's a delicate balance, ensuring they get enough exercise and mental stimulation, but don't get overtired. Some days I'm better at it than others.

I'm sorry to hear Sisko might be sick.


----------



## McSuzie

I would do the above and pour myself a drink!

How old is Sisko?


----------



## McSuzie

Fenris-wolf said:


> I'll take her! Not one of those days. I'm sorry. Has her stomach been upset today? I wonder if her stomach being upset and her being highly alert are related.
> 
> Sisko has been a bit of a nightmare all month long, (we only had one great day this month) he has been so needy, and clingy, and he hasn't been listening like he should, but I now believe that this is all something medical, because I have been training him like I should, and he is breathing strange(that started last night), something just isn't right.
> 
> Does she have any Yakky chews or anything to stuff in her Kong and freeze. I would put her in her X-pen with a Yakky chew or frozen Kong, and take a break from her if you can.


----------



## McSuzie

I’m sorry Sisko Is not feeling well


----------



## Fenris-wolf

PeggyTheParti said:


> My husband took her out for an "adventure" in the Costco parking lot, and now she's snoozing hard in her crate. It's a delicate balance, ensuring they get enough exercise and mental stimulation, but don't get overtired. Some days I'm better at it than others.
> 
> I'm sorry to hear Sisko might be sick.


 I'm happy to hear that she is snoozing now!

Thank you. I was crying earlier because I felt bad for him. He goes to the vet this Thursday. They're letting us going in with him! I was scared that they wouldn't, but I'm happy that they will. 


McSuzie said:


> I would do the above and pour myself a drink!
> 
> How old is Sisko?


 I had poured myself 2 cups of wine last night, but it was in a tiny wine glass.

Sisko is 2 years and 5 months.


McSuzie said:


> I’m sorry Sisko Is not feeling well


 Thank you. Sisko goes to the vet this Thursday, and we will be able to go in with him. I was scared that they wouldn't let us go in with him.


----------



## McSuzie

Fenris-wolf said:


> I'm happy to hear that she is snoozing now!
> 
> Thank you. I was crying earlier because I felt bad for him. He goes to the vet this Thursday. They're letting us going in with him! I was scared that they wouldn't, but I'm happy that they will.
> I had poured myself 2 cups of wine last night, but it was in a tiny wine glass.
> 
> Sisko is 2 years and 5 months.
> Thank you. Sisko goes to the vet this Thursday, and we will be able to go in with him. I was scared that they wouldn't let us go in with him.


----------



## McSuzie

Let us know how he makes out 🙏 I’ll be thinking of you, hopefully it’s nothing


----------



## For Want of Poodle

Fenris-wolf - best wishes for Sisko, hope everything goes well at the vets.


----------



## For Want of Poodle

Also.... just started the next set of classes with Annie. OMG was she a teenager tonight. "Hi everyone! Hi new friends! Can we play! That looks like fun! Me play too !!! " (in her highest pitched most annoying barking voice). Squirm squirm squirm. Hi!!!! 

And now, I am exhausted from 2 hours of driving and one hour of class, and she's wandering around, barking at noises and sniffing and digging around for trouble, acting like an hour of training class was not enough exercise or brain work and acting like she does when she has had a boring uneventful day. I did 15 min of trick practice, played toys, etc. Nope. Still restless. Gonna have to take her for a tiny pitch black outside walk. Poodles!!!


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Wish Peggy and Annie could tire each other out! That sure is a long day for you.


----------



## Fenris-wolf

McSuzie said:


> Let us know how he makes out 🙏 I’ll be thinking of you, hopefully it’s nothing





For Want of Poodle said:


> Fenris-wolf - best wishes for Sisko, hope everything goes well at the vets.


Thank you so much guys💗💗 I will let you all know what happens.


----------



## Fenris-wolf

For Want of Poodle said:


> Also.... just started the next set of classes with Annie. OMG was she a teenager tonight. "Hi everyone! Hi new friends! Can we play! That looks like fun! Me play too !!! " (in her highest pitched most annoying barking voice). Squirm squirm squirm. Hi!!!!
> 
> And now, I am exhausted from 2 hours of driving and one hour of class, and she's wandering around, barking at noises and sniffing and digging around for trouble, acting like an hour of training class was not enough exercise or brain work and acting like she does when she has had a boring uneventful day. I did 15 min of trick practice, played toys, etc. Nope. Still restless. Gonna have to take her for a tiny pitch black outside walk. Poodles!!!


What a day! I'm sorry. 



For Want of Poodle said:


> "Hi everyone! Hi new friends! Can we play! That looks like fun! Me play too !!! " (in her highest pitched most annoying barking voice). Squirm squirm squirm. Hi!!!!


 I feel you! Sisko does this everytime he sees someone and they try to talk to me, and all you can do is look like: 😒 and try to get them to calm down.

Has anyone thought about getting a collapsible treadmill? I'm thinking about getting one.


----------



## For Want of Poodle

We walked. She declined to come in and is now rooting around on the porch. Gah. Poodles. 

Fenris- I know that feeling. I spent most of the class shovelling treats at Annie rewarding calm, while everyone else just kinda... hung out. She broke the clip of the training tab the trainer was using to hold her back and went sprinting to another dog who was working. 

PtP - I would LOVE to let Peggy and Annie tire each other out. Except I think what might be happening is we have been spending a lot of the time at the dog park the last few days, so she is now accustomed to an hour of run run play with a friend or two every night. May need to cut it back a bit for my sanity.... They sure are fun to watch though (even if Annie occasionally looks demonically possessed).


----------



## PeggyTheParti

For Want of Poodle said:


> PtP - I would LOVE to let Peggy and Annie tire each other out. Except I think what might be happening is we have been spending a lot of the time at the dog park the last few days, so she is now accustomed to an hour of run run play with a friend or two every night. May need to cut it back a bit for my sanity.... They sure are fun to watch though (even if Annie occasionally looks demonically possessed).


Oooooh. I know what that's like! I try to limit any activities that get Peggy's cortisol up, which is hard, because they're so often the ones that _should_ tire her out. 

For example, we've not had the frisbees out in a couple of weeks. That's an activity that leaves her wired even as her tongue is hanging out the side of her mouth.


----------



## Spottytoes

This is such an encouraging thread!!! Peggy the Parti, thank you for starting this. 😊
Thank you to all who have shared the realities of teenage poodles! We are beginning to come out the other side but we still have a few months left. Just like all of you, I have a nice collection of crazy teenage poodle stories and I’m sure there will be more to add.
I always get a chuckle at Bobby’s training classes because they never use him to demonstrate and why is that? He’s a poodle! He’s very smart! Well, it’s because he’s a silly, exuberant, I wanna play with everyone poodle and I just can’t handle all this attention! Let’s play! Can I have that treat? Let’s run and jump! He’s actually great in his classes, that is, until others give him attention. 
They always use the Goldens and I know why. 😂
With that being said, he hasn’t been to a class since February because of Covid and he has grown up a lot since then. I actually can’t wait until classes start again. I am really interested to see how much he really has grown up. 
Anyway, reading everyone’s stories was very encouraging and hopeful. I can’t tell you how many times we would get so discouraged but just kept taking it one day at a time. There were days we felt like total failures at dog training. 
Amazingly though, those crazy teenage moments are appearing less and less, now. Yup! Bobby is indeed growing up and maturing and maybe, just maybe...he might be used by a trainer to demonstrate in class. 😊
I think there should be a book written about the realities of teenage dogs. Thank you again!


----------



## Mufar42

Fenris-wolf said:


> What a day! I'm sorry.
> 
> I feel you! Sisko does this everytime he sees someone and they try to talk to me, and all you can do is look like: 😒 and try to get them to calm down.
> 
> Has anyone thought about getting a collapsible treadmill? I'm thinking about getting one.


I hope that Sisko is ok and that there is nothing medical with him. I think he and Renn are very much alike in some of their behaviors. I don't think I will ever trust Renn completely with others. Now he has been doing so well on his walks with my daughter and last night he wasn't. He was sitting nicely and being quiet until a child spoke and said can I pet him. Then he went ballistic barking nasty, my daughter said she was so embarrassed at his behavior and she had never seen that in him before. I'm not quite sure what I am going to do about it right now. When he is in the "red zone" his mind is gone so we have to work on him not getting there. I am thinking at this point he is not going to be a sweet cuddly dog to children or people he doesn't know. I'm disappointed but if the is what I have I will deal with it. I certainly don't want to take a chance of him biting someone. But meanwhile we will continue to work on it. I may train him to a muzzle, I already know he hates it but ..So you see we all have those days. Today is a new one so back to work we go.


----------



## For Want of Poodle

PeggyTheParti said:


> Oooooh. I know what that's like! I try to limit any activities that get Peggy's cortisol up, which is hard, because they're so often the ones that _should_ tire her out.
> 
> For example, we've not had the frisbees out in a couple of weeks. That's an activity that leaves her wired even as her tongue is hanging out the side of her mouth.


Yup. We already limit it by taking her at the time of day when there is often no one, or only one other dog there instead of at 4 PM, which is when the big group meets and almost all the dogs are there. When there is no one, she gets lots of obedience practice instead of wild running to tire her out. But the wild running makes her so happy, and so tired when we get home. But I may need to reduce it further.

I remind myself a lot that I am training Annie to have more endurance in the things we do frequently, and I would rather she have more endurance in controlled obedience and brain work than crazy running. But it's hard, she absolutely adores her friends at the park who she has known since she was a baby and honestly I enjoy the COVID-safe social interaction with people, too.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Spottytoes said:


> Bobby is indeed growing up and maturing and maybe, just maybe...he might be used by a trainer to demonstrate in class. 😊


Careful what you wish for! Lol.

Peggy's trainer used her a few weeks ago to demonstrate how easy it is to train a dog to weave through your legs, using a lure.

Well, what our trainer _didn't_ know is that I've taught Peggy to jump OVER my leg.

So the trainer took one big step, stood still, and attempted the lure. Peggy pulled back a bit, analyzed the situation....and went up and over the trainer's leg in the most dazzlingly awkward flying leap.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

For Want of Poodle said:


> Yup. We already limit it by taking her at the time of day when there is often no one, or only one other dog there instead of at 4 PM, which is when the big group meets and almost all the dogs are there. When there is no one, she gets lots of obedience practice instead of wild running to tire her out. But the wild running makes her so happy, and so tired when we get home. But I may need to reduce it further.
> 
> I remind myself a lot that I am training Annie to have more endurance in the things we do frequently, and I would rather she have more endurance in controlled obedience and brain work than crazy running. But it's hard, she absolutely adores her friends at the park who she has known since she was a baby and honestly I enjoy the COVID-safe social interaction with people, too.


I agree. Our weekly playdates have been sanity savers. Since Peggy's been sick, we've skipped the last two, and I'm worried we won't be able to get them back on track.

I need to start working on Peggy's obedience in public spaces, too. She goes through her paces easy peasy at home, but I'm usually too flustered when we're out and about. It's hard to ask a dog to calmly focus on you when you're not calm yourself.

Other than the dog park, is there somewhere you go for practising the basics? I suppose I could go to the far edge of a parking lot. We use spaces like that to practise walking, but I never ask for much more than a loose leash and the occasional sit.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Mufar42 said:


> I am thinking at this point he is not going to be a sweet cuddly dog to children


I've accepted this about Peggy. She's just not had the opportunity to be around them in controlled environments, and I made the mistake of letting random children handle her at the waterfront when she was a puppy, when I _knew_ she'd been traumatized by a child while still with the breeder.

One of the kids at the waterfront was holding her gently in her lap when something more exciting came along. She essentially tossed Peggy in the air and ran away squealing. Peggy shut down for 20 minutes after.

I'm at least happy she doesn't growl at the little girl in the house behind us anymore. The little girl would play in the bushes along the fence line, which Peggy found understandably alarming. Now she just stands and stares and hopes someone will pay attention to her. But I can't imagine what she would do if a small human actually appeared in our yard. Maybe she'd surprise me? How will I ever know? I'm not taking the chance with non-family members.

It's hard for me, as little Gracie was so tolerant. Her last Halloween, she was out on the porch, all 12 lbs of her, wiggling and greeting a gang of squealing masked girls. Could cry just thinking about it.

I know we need to accept our dogs for who they are, but who doesn't wish their dog could be trusted in all situations?


----------



## For Want of Poodle

PeggyTheParti said:


> I agree. Our weekly playdates have been sanity savers. Since Peggy's been sick, we've skipped the last two, and I'm worried we won't be able to get them back on track.
> 
> I need to start working on Peggy's obedience in public spaces, too. She goes through her paces easy peasy at home, but I'm usually too flustered when we're out and about. It's hard to ask a dog to calmly focus on you when you're not calm yourself.
> 
> Other than the dog park, is there somewhere you go for practising the basics? I suppose I could go to the far edge of a parking lot. We use spaces like that to practise walking, but I never ask for much more than a loose leash and the occasional sit.


We do a lot at the dog park - if there is another dog, she has to do a sit and stay and look at me to get me to open the two gates, and a sit stay while I walk in and walk around, leaving the gate open, of no one else is there, then, after some tearing around, sit, stay and distance work with a ball, heeling, recall, etc. We also practice if there is a dog who isnt interested in playing. 

Downtown after dark is my other favourite place to practice, especially for heelwork. Past bars and patios, but little foot traffic. Not busy, lots of good sniffs, not hot. Sometimes daytime can be too stimulating for her downtown (ok, and me, i hate crowds, so I get bothered and she behaves poorly) if its busy, and people are more inclined to bug us. Touristy areas and busy nature trails are great too. We did work in transit stations when she was a puppy. Car dealerships/the mechanics and the vets office are also good places to practice (or were, pre-Covid). Canadian Tire and garden centres, too. I ask for down stay a lot when I browse.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

For Want of Poodle said:


> Downtown after dark is my other favourite place to practice, especially for heelwork. Past bars and patios, but little foot traffic. Not busy, lots of good sniffs, not hot. Sometimes daytime can be too stimulating for her downtown (ok, and me, i hate crowds, so I get bothered and she behaves poorly) if its busy, and people are more inclined to bug us.


I've often wondered why Gracie turned out so well when I didn't have a clue what I was doing, and living in the city (I think) was a big part of that. She was riding the subway from day 1 and I was too clueless to feel anxious abut making it positive for her. I was chill so she was chill.

Thanks for inspiring me to get out more with Peggy.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Part of the fun of adolescence is that you have days like yesterday (ugh) and weeks like the last week (double ugh) but then you get a day like today where you can actually see who your dog might someday become.

We went out to get the mail and encountered multiple strangers from a distance: The first she stopped and stared at, but no barks or growls or pulling. The second she didn't even acknowledge. Then a big van pulled _into_ our driveway to turn around.

Oh great! Here we go!

But she just glanced at the van and then kept walking towards the front door. WHAT?? I feel like I suddenly have an 8-year-old poodle. Will enjoy it while it lasts.


----------



## Fenris-wolf

Mufar42 said:


> I hope that Sisko is ok and that there is nothing medical with him. I think he and Renn are very much alike in some of their behaviors. I don't think I will ever trust Renn completely with others. Now he has been doing so well on his walks with my daughter and last night he wasn't. He was sitting nicely and being quiet until a child spoke and said can I pet him. Then he went ballistic barking nasty, my daughter said she was so embarrassed at his behavior and she had never seen that in him before. I'm not quite sure what I am going to do about it right now. When he is in the "red zone" his mind is gone so we have to work on him not getting there. I am thinking at this point he is not going to be a sweet cuddly dog to children or people he doesn't know. I'm disappointed but if the is what I have I will deal with it. I certainly don't want to take a chance of him biting someone. But meanwhile we will continue to work on it. I may train him to a muzzle, I already know he hates it but ..So you see we all have those days. Today is a new one so back to work we go.


Thank you, @Mufar42. I think they are too! It would be awesome if they could meet. They could probably balance each other out very nicely. Is Renn fearful of new people?


----------



## Mufar42

I had not thought about it but yes he is, however the good part is he will now usually stay in a sit next to us if we are out walking. Now we get a delivery of medical supplies every 4 weeks, I usually keep him behind a gate when someone comes in and he would always bark at the delivery guy when he walks thru the house, as the put the stuff away for us. But yesterday he did not, he went to his mat and sat and just watched. Now he isn't that good to stay on his mat but he will go to it now for his meals and when he decides he wants something and I've ignored him. Last nights walk was better, he saw a little dog and only looked. I think he is a fearful dog , probably my fault, though he wasn't much different when he was just months old. He would bark and lunge toward people and kids n I didn't let him. I probably should have but people get scared even of a big puppy so I didn't. I think by holding him back I let him know he could scare the scary people away. From what I've been reading this is what I've done. So now we are working very slowly though I think he will never feel totally comfortable with strangers he will learn its ok to just sit at my side and wait for me. I had hopes to visit nursing homes with him but he won't be that guy. I'm ok with it though. He is a great cuddle bug to us and when I walk I don't have to be too fearful of someone who has bad intentions. As long as I can take walks with him I'm happy. I am going to try and condition him to a muzzle and if I do I will take his training further to see how much fear I can eliminate as I don't want to take a chance of him biting anyone though I don't think he would but you never know. (I think I'm fearful too).


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Mufar42 said:


> (I think I'm fearful too).


I can relate to this. In my case, I had a much harder time transitioning to a larger dog than I expected. I would swear up and down "Gracie never growled like that!" But then I watched a video yesterday of her growling at the TV.

It was funny when she did it. People were never afraid of her....so I didn't worry so much....so all her outings and interactions with the world were purely positive...

I think it's definitely all connected.


----------



## Raindrops

PeggyTheParti said:


> I can relate to this. In my case, I had a much harder time transitioning to a larger dog than I expected. I would swear up and down "Gracie never growled like that!" But then I watched a video yesterday of her growling at the TV.
> 
> It was funny when she did it. People were never afraid of her....so I didn't worry so much....so all her outings and interactions with the world were purely positive...
> 
> I think it's definitely all connected.


Misha likes to growl. He's a growly dog. He growls all the time in play, often furiously as if he's pretending to be very angry. He even growls at his toys when he's playing by himself. He growls when he's frustrated too. It is very subtle to tell whether the growl is in jest or real. Real growls are reserved for something he thinks is dangerous that he is alerting to, or if I'm trying to do something that makes him feel genuinely uncomfortable or in pain.

It's frustrating because he growls during over excited play. And he often gets over excited when he meets puppies. I always tell owners that he's growling because he _likes _their puppy but they look like they don't believe me.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Raindrops said:


> Misha likes to growl. He's a growly dog. He growls all the time in play, often furiously as if he's pretending to be very angry. He even growls at his toys when he's playing by himself. He growls when he's frustrated too. It is very subtle to tell whether the growl is in jest or real. Real growls are reserved for something he thinks is dangerous that he is alerting to, or if I'm trying to do something that makes him feel genuinely uncomfortable or in pain.
> 
> It's frustrating because he growls during over excited play. And he often gets over excited when he meets puppies. I always tell owners that he's growling because he _likes _their puppy but they look like they don't believe me.


Peggy thinks _too many_ things are worthy of alert growls and always has. The worst was when she growled at a kid on the beach, at around 5 months old. And the dad looked me right in the eye and did a throat-slitting motion with his finger. That's not the kind of experience that ever leaves you.

In that case, she was telling us she was extremely worried about the tiny creature that was running erratically. But she does have a range of growls, which are sometimes misunderstood. She has a frustrated growl that she uses when pouncing on a frisbee she's failed to catch in the air, and that same growl will sometimes come out when she's playing with other dogs. It alarms some owners, but they relax when they actually look at how she's playing and realize it's not aggressive.

The difference is that NO ONE would have been alarmed hearing that sound from floppy little Gracie. She was only about 10 lbs at a year old, so pretty much anything she did was met with delighted laughter. I believe that shapes a dog's temperament: If every human they encounter is smiling and relaxed, it's going to make them feel relaxed, too.


----------



## Raindrops

PeggyTheParti said:


> Peggy thinks _too many_ things are worthy of alert growls and always has. The worst was when she growled at a kid on the beach, at around 5 months old. And the dad looked me right in the eye and did a throat-slitting motion with his finger. That's not the kind of experience that ever leaves you.
> 
> In that case, she was telling us she was extremely worried about the tiny creature that was running erratically. But she does have a range of growls, which are sometimes misunderstood. She has a frustrated growl that she uses when pouncing on a frisbee she's failed to catch in the air, and that same growl will sometimes come out when she's playing with other dogs. It alarms some owners, but they relax when they actually look at how she's playing and realize it's not aggressive.
> 
> The difference is that NO ONE would have been alarmed hearing that sound from floppy little Gracie. She was only about 10 lbs at a year old, so pretty much anything she did was met with delighted laughter. I believe that shapes a dog's temperament: If every human they encounter is smiling and relaxed, it's going to make them feel relaxed, too.


Yeah definitely. That's probably true, though I think you also see a lot of hyper-anxious growly biting toy dogs that probably get that way because people never took their complaints seriously. People suck at listening to dogs.

But also I still can't believe somebody did that at the beach. That's horrible.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Raindrops said:


> Yeah definitely. That's probably true, though I think you also see a lot of hyper-anxious growly biting toy dogs that probably get that way because people never took their complaints seriously. People suck at listening to dogs.
> 
> But also I still can't believe somebody did that at the beach. That's horrible.


That's a good point. Nature and nurture are always gonna go hand in hand.

And luckily after that awful beach experience, we ran into two absolute angel children and their angel dad in the parking lot. I told them the story of what had just happened, and the little boy said he'd be happy to meet Peggy, to teach her that kids are okay. And he and his sister loved on her in the most polite, appropriate way.

If we had family nearby, she'd have experiences like that every day. 😭

A photo from right before the "throat slitting" encounter:










Can't believe she was ever such a wooly little mammoth-dog. I feel tired just remembering those early days. Lol. Good to reflect back sometimes.


----------



## Spottytoes

PeggyTheParti said:


> Careful what you wish for! Lol.


😉😂 I’m not wishing too hard. I totally know what it’s like to have embarrassing dog moments in training classes. Hey, I think that sounds like a good thread if there isn’t one already! We are actually starting class tonight so we’ll see how it goes!


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## FloofyPoodle

PeggyTheParti said:


> Peggy thinks _too many_ things are worthy of alert growls and always has. The worst was when she growled at a kid on the beach, at around 5 months old. And the dad looked me right in the eye and did a throat-slitting motion with his finger. That's not the kind of experience that ever leaves you.


Scrolled up to see what you all were talking about, and ugh. I’ve had a few of those type of encounters myself, but nothing like that. People can be downright nasty sometimes. And why was Dad letting his kid play with an unknown dog, anyways?! Good grief. Some days I wish animal behavior was taught along with biology in school.


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## PeggyTheParti

Spottytoes said:


> 😉😂 I’m not wishing too hard. I totally know what it’s like to have embarrassing dog moments in training classes. Hey, I think that sounds like a good thread if there isn’t one already! We are actually starting class tonight so we’ll see how it goes!


Woo hoo! So fun! Hope it goes really well. Be sure to start that thread when you get home. I think it'll be a good one!


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## PeggyTheParti

FloofyPoodle said:


> Scrolled up to see what you all were talking about, and ugh. I’ve had a few of those type of encounters myself, but nothing like that. People can be downright nasty sometimes. And why was Dad letting his kid play with an unknown dog, anyways?! Good grief. Some days I wish animal behavior was taught along with biology in school.


To be fair, the kid was in his own little kid world, just running around doing kid things. 

But we've definitely had parents send their kids running over to Peggy, and it was even worse with our last dog. We'd have to pry her out of tiny arms while the parents just stood there. So awkward having to parent another person's child. And so scary imagining that kid reaching for the wrong dog. Could turn out very badly for all involved. 

Now I speak loudly and clearly: She's very young! She might nip! That usually stops 'em in their tracks.

We actually got to practise saying things like that in our puppy class, with the trainer and her assistant pretending to be overly enthusiastic strangers. Extremely helpful!


----------



## McSuzie

Fenris-wolf said:


> I'm happy to hear that she is snoozing now!
> 
> Thank you. I was crying earlier because I felt bad for him. He goes to the vet this Thursday. They're letting us going in with him! I was scared that they wouldn't, but I'm happy that they will.
> I had poured myself 2 cups of wine last night, but it was in a tiny wine glass.
> 
> Sisko is 2 years and 5 months.
> Thank you. Sisko goes to the vet this Thursday, and we will be able to go in with him. I was scared that they wouldn't let us go in with him.


How did he make out today at the vet?


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## Fenris-wolf

McSuzie said:


> How did he make out today at the vet?


He's doing good!! He does have anxiety, so the vet gave us Trazodone to take home and give to him before he enters any situations that make him anxious. I'll post in a new threat, and post it here so peeps can see


----------



## Fenris-wolf

Sisko's vet appointment🐩😎


Sisko was a wild Poodle at the vet's office today. He would have been that one dog who if was loose would have said hi to everyone and trotted in and out of every room😨. He does have anxiety, so the vet gave me Trazodone to give him when he enters situations that make him anxious, and the vet...




www.poodleforum.com


----------



## For Want of Poodle

PtP - 100% agree about the extra leeway for small dogs. Poor Annie agrees too - its NOT FAIR. The neighbours are delighted when Trixie runs over to see them, barking and wiggling. They call her over. Annie? Even barking and wiggling at a distance on leash they are nervous, and they never call her, and barely touch her if they do deign to pet her. A quick pat pat and done not a cooing session.God forbid she jump on them like Trixie does! Trixie had grandma love and hug and pet her, and bounces and scratches grandma's leg to get scraps. Annie got swatted, and warned away and scolded the one time she did jump.

I have far more people ask to pet Trixie than Annie - even if Trixie is straining away in fear because she thinks most people are scary and Annie is happily vibrating and waving her tail. 

Definitelu Much easier in some ways to be a small dog- no one is afraid of you and the consequences of bad behaviour are so much less.


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## PeggyTheParti

Aw! That just made me want to give Annie a hug. It's hard when people aren't receptive to our dogs. Hurts my feelings on their behalf.

On the other hand, my husband took Peggy to the post office today, and she met multiple people who were _thrilled_ to have her jump on them! Ack. I'm glad she had some happy encounters, but really at a loss as to how to break this habit. 

She's almost entirely stopped jumping on us, so I know she's not hopeless. And our trainer got her to stop jumping at our outdoor playdates, but....she was right back to jumping when class resumed.

It's almost like we have to train for every possible scenario, which seems completely unrealistic. Or maybe it's just a matter of exposing her to so many people, the novelty wears off?


----------



## Raindrops

For Want of Poodle said:


> PtP - 100% agree about the extra leeway for small dogs. Poor Annie agrees too - its NOT FAIR. The neighbours are delighted when Trixie runs over to see them, barking and wiggling. They call her over. Annie? Even barking and wiggling at a distance on leash they are nervous, and they never call her, and barely touch her if they do deign to pet her. A quick pat pat and done not a cooing session.God forbid she jump on them like Trixie does! Trixie had grandma love and hug and pet her, and bounces and scratches grandma's leg to get scraps. Annie got swatted, and warned away and scolded the one time she did jump.
> 
> I have far more people ask to pet Trixie than Annie - even if Trixie is straining away in fear because she thinks most people are scary and Annie is happily vibrating and waving her tail.
> 
> Definitelu Much easier in some ways to be a small dog- no one is afraid of you and the consequences of bad behaviour are so much less.


Poor Annie! I do try to keep my energy very calm when I'm meeting big dogs because I'd really rather not be jumped on and so many young dogs jump. Usually if I'm more subdued they will be too. But big dogs are just the right petting height!


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## Spottytoes

PeggyTheParti said:


> Woo hoo! So fun! Hope it goes really well. Be sure to start that thread when you get home. I think it'll be a good one!


We did have fun!!! 😊It was great to be back and Bobby definitely has matured and he did a great job. He worked hard in his poodle way. Typically was done after several repetitions but it was fine. I just accepted that and waited until the next thing. He did everything well, even the friendly greetings, which has been a problem for him because he gets so silly and excited. There is definitely hope as we navigate the teen time. I can really see our hard work and his growing in maturity. 
The trainer did use him once but he got a little silly and actually a little unsure and skittish, which did surprise me, but nothing too embarrassing. Actually, most of the dogs she tried using had a bit of hesitation, even the Golden! The Lab was
perfect though! 😂 There was a gorgeous, huge Spoo who wanted nothing to do with being used by the trainer. Maybe they all have to get used to classes again after so many months away from formal group training.


----------



## For Want of Poodle

PeggyTheParti said:


> Aw! That just made me want to give Annie a hug. It's hard when people aren't receptive to our dogs. Hurts my feelings on their behalf.
> 
> On the other hand, my husband took Peggy to the post office today, and she met multiple people who were _thrilled_ to have her jump on them! Ack. I'm glad she had some happy encounters, but really at a loss as to how to break this habit.
> 
> She's almost entirely stopped jumping on us, so I know she's not hopeless. And our trainer got her to stop jumping at our outdoor playdates, but....she was right back to jumping when class resumed.
> 
> It's almost like we have to train for every possible scenario, which seems completely unrealistic. Or maybe it's just a matter of exposing her to so many people, the novelty wears off?


I had to teach Annie what "off" meant explicitly. Until then it was just that noise humans make during greeting  Now that she has learned it and I have told her "off" a lot, and rewarded it with pets, she seems to understand in most situations that "off" is required for greeting. 

Annie is funny- she went through most of her adolescence pretty much indifferent to being pet by strangers. She loves the neighbours, friends, and family, but strangers on a walk? Meh. I would tell her "go see!"and she would stand there and you could hear her think "omg, can I get back to walking yet?". Now that we are 6 months into COViD - she wants to greet people again desperately and is all wiggles. Took her downtown a few weeks ago and walked her past a patio to practice ignoring people as distractions, and she gleefully greeted 3 people who called her over.



Raindrops said:


> Poor Annie! I do try to keep my energy very calm when I'm meeting big dogs because I'd really rather not be jumped on and so many young dogs jump. Usually if I'm more subdued they will be too. But big dogs are just the right petting height!


100% agree. I probably pet more large dogs than small, they are easier to pet and usually more receptive to it. I hate when I get one of the squeaky voiced baby talk people, Annie is guaranteed to be an idiot and jump, and they are guaranteed to be startled and afraid of it. Calm people? she is calm and cool, and has a nice petting session.

I am very popular with the dogs at the dog park, because I dont just stand there ignoring them and instead walk around the park and supervise/redirect. If there are more than 3 dogs, I usually am never not petting a dog. I always find it funny when peoples dogs start behaving better for me than their owner, just because I am calm and firm and reward good (non jumping) behavior.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Spottytoes said:


> We did have fun!!! 😊It was great to be back and Bobby definitely has matured and he did a great job. He worked hard in his poodle way. Typically was done after several repetitions but it was fine. I just accepted that and waited until the next thing. He did everything well, even the friendly greetings, which has been a problem for him because he gets so silly and excited. There is definitely hope as we navigate the teen time. I can really see our hard work and his growing in maturity.
> The trainer did use him once but he got a little silly and actually a little unsure and skittish, which did surprise me, but nothing too embarrassing. Actually, most of the dogs she tried using had a bit of hesitation, even the Golden! The Lab was
> perfect though! 😂 There was a gorgeous, huge Spoo who wanted nothing to do with being used by the trainer. Maybe they all have to get used to classes again after so many months away from formal group training.


What do you do during this time? Do you let him quietly observe or try keeping him working and engaged?


----------



## PeggyTheParti

For Want of Poodle said:


> I had to teach Annie what "off" meant explicitly. Until then it was just that noise humans make during greeting


Did you teach her to jump up in order to teach her to get down? Because what I really want is to teach her to _stay down_ and not jump in the first place.

A rapid low delivery of treats works great, timed before the first jump ever happens. That is how our trainer got Peggy to stop jumping up at play dates. It took two sessions. But it doesn't translate at all to other locations or circumstances. And I can't exactly get strangers to participate.


----------



## For Want of Poodle

PeggyTheParti said:


> Did you teach her to jump up in order to teach her to get down? Because what I really want is to teach her to _stay down_ and not jump in the first place.
> 
> A rapid low delivery of treats works great, timed before the first jump ever happens. That is how our trainer got Peggy to stop jumping up at play dates. It took two sessions. But it doesn't translate at all to other locations or circumstances. And I can't exactly get strangers to participate.


I did yeah.... I started with hug (treat), off (treat). Then, I switched to hug (no treat) off (treat), and started giving multiple treats for off in between hug, so she learned to only hug on cue. Now - if I see her thinking of jumping, I tell her off, and she complies before she has a chance to jump. And if I want to reward her, I let her jump up on me on cue (no treats , it's just something she enjoys). It decreased the jumping dramatically when I could clearly communicate what was expected of her. Plus she is SO gentle with jumping now, I barely feel her feet. Not a good thing, but she did jump on my mid 90s grandma who is unsteady on her feet when grandma came in and I was not there, and didnt knock her over which I think was pretty impressive. 

You MIGHT be able to teach this with jumping on a wall, off, wall, off but it's a bit more for the dog to generalize. 

If you do try this - be careful of what hand signal you chose. My hug signal is thumping my chest with my fist and apparently very close to my sit signal, which is holding my fist out at chest height...


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## Spottytoes

PeggyTheParti said:


> What do you do during this time? Do you let him quietly observe or try keeping him working and engaged?


I have no problem letting him just observe as I figure it’s a good time to practice downstays or sits. He’s pretty calm. If he needs work with something I will do something but chilling is good by me and it’s only for a a few minutes anyway. In my mind, looking at all the action and staying chill is good training as well.


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## For Want of Poodle

Miss Annie had a great day! 

We play a game where she gets to go on a walk until she pulls, then we go home. We went 3 houses further than usual, and I had to trick her into pulling so we could go home because I was running late for a conference call, and even then she barely pulled. 

We went to the park - she actually socialized with 2 people even though there were dogs there (this never happens), and did not jump or even consider jumping and I was told how lovely behaved she is. Then we met a friend, and she greeted him and someone else, again, no jumping, no even thinking of it and no pulling, despite lots of wiggling and being in a new place. And she did a nice "settle" and relax at my feet in a strange and noisy place while waiting for the friend to show up. And then we came home and she lay at my feet while I was ambushed by a neighbour who wished to chat, and again, did not jump and accepted petting. Good dog! I am sure she will do something crazy tomorrow, I know better than to expect this level of perfection, but today, she was a very good dog.


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## PeggyTheParti

Spottytoes said:


> I have no problem letting him just observe as I figure it’s a good time to practice downstays or sits. He’s pretty calm. If he needs work with something I will do something but chilling is good by me and it’s only for a a few minutes anyway. In my mind, looking at all the action and staying chill is good training as well.


I think I need to do more of this. I tend to heed our trainer's calls to "Keep them working!" but I know she'd totally understand if I felt Peggy could benefit more from just some calm observation time.

That's what I want her to do in real-life situations.


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## PeggyTheParti

For Want of Poodle said:


> Miss Annie had a great day!
> 
> We play a game where she gets to go on a walk until she pulls, then we go home. We went 3 houses further than usual, and I had to trick her into pulling so we could go home because I was running late for a conference call, and even then she barely pulled.
> 
> We went to the park - she actually socialized with 2 people even though there were dogs there (this never happens), and did not jump or even consider jumping and I was told how lovely behaved she is. Then we met a friend, and she greeted him and someone else, again, no jumping, no even thinking of it and no pulling, despite lots of wiggling and being in a new place. And she did a nice "settle" and relax at my feet in a strange and noisy place while waiting for the friend to show up. And then we came home and she lay at my feet while I was ambushed by a neighbour who wished to chat, and again, did not jump and accepted petting. Good dog! I am sure she will do something crazy tomorrow, I know better than to expect this level of perfection, but today, she was a very good dog.


Wow Annie! Great work!


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## PeggyTheParti

My husband took Peggy to a coffee shop patio today, and he can't stop marvelling at the progress she's made. The biggest difference he saw was that she actually _chose_ to lay down and people-watch.

If we'd both had our way, we'd have given up on patios a lonnnng time ago. Much more relaxing to just leave her at home! But with our trainer's help, we're keeping our eyes on our ultimate goal: A dog that can relax at our feet while the world goes by.

Just a reminder to identify and keep practising whatever's most important to you.


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## Dianaleez

Normie's 11 months; he's more toddler than an adolescent. 

He waits for me outside the bathroom door (at least he doesn't walk the toilet paper through the house for fun). When I cook there's a paw on my leg notice-me style. He ignores thunderstorms without flinching and falls apart when someone rings the bell. He's perfected the languishing look from upcast eyes, yet can at a moment's notice turn a serious moment into 'catch me if you can.'

This too shall pass. It's much more fun that way.


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## cowpony

My husband went to use the toilet today and found a tennis ball floating in it. Hmmm, I wonder how that happened.


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## Dianaleez

cowpony said:


> My husband went to use the toilet today and found a tennis ball floating in it. Hmmm, I wonder how that happened.


So much better than the snake that I imagine on my 2 AM visits.


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## PeggyTheParti

Good puppy prank, Galen!


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## Spottytoes

Well, Bobby reminded me that he is still an adolescent. 
He was totally different dog during our class this week. He was great with his down stays and settles but looking at me, leave it and 
walking nice...it’s like he never heard of these things!!! 😂😂😂 
Totally checked out and was distracted, distracted and distracted. 🤪
Hopefully next week will be better.


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## PeggyTheParti

Bringing this thread back to life to say that YEP. Peggy is still an adolescent. We had the nuttiest walk today. She was jumping and barking and zigzagging—pretty much having the time of her life while we very much were _not_. Lol.

Even adolescent spoos have such old, elegant souls. It's easy to forget they're still immature.

Peggy will be 17 months old on Monday.


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## Spottytoes

I hear you, PTP! Just when I think we are out of adolescence I am reminded that we are not! 😂. Bobby is 23 months. I just read a book about the stages in a dog’s life and it talks about the almost adult stage as sometimes being quite difficult sometimes as they are almost mature but not quite so they still challenge you. They are trying to find their place. I believe the book stated that this particular stage ended around 2 1/2 
years for some dogs. It was encouraging as it basically said, it is especially important to keep training, and to not give up and dogs really will come out the other side as a mature dog. It seems I have read on this site that poodles can be on the late side for maturation. Maybe I read it somewhere else. For all of you who really know poodles, is this true?


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## Fenris-wolf

I have been having a very rough time with Sisko


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## Mfmst

Poodles are slow to mature, but the plus side is that they retain their joie de vivre into their senior years. I was new to poodles when I got Buck. His progression was adolescence to a college frat boy on a five year plan to graduation. Luckily, wise voices on PF counseled me that it was going to take 2-3 years. He needed all of those three years, plus. Fun and frustration are to be expected along the way. Celebrate even the smallest successes and remember tomorrow could be a day with no mistakes in it. Or maybe not


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## Spottytoes

Mfmst said:


> Poodles are slow to mature, but the plus side is that they retain their joie de vivre into their senior years. I was new to poodles when I got Buck. His progression was adolescence to a college frat boy on a five year plan to graduation. Luckily, wise voices on PF counseled me that it was going to take 2-3 years. He needed all of those three years, plus. Fun and frustration are to be expected along the way. Celebrate even the smallest successes and remember tomorrow could be a day with no mistakes in it. Or maybe not


Very encouraging! Thank you! It’s like I know this in my head but to have folks remind you really helps. The book I read likened a young adult/upper adolescent dog to a young human in this stage, just as you did...we totally know people don’t grow up and mentally mature over night but we humans seem to expect our dogs to.

I like this forum for so many reasons and one of the main reasons is that we can share our struggles. Books and training and all of that is great but sometimes the reality isn’t always present. Training and maturity take time and you don’t always truly get that message. We know that the majority of dogs that are given up to shelters and rescues are adolescent and young adult dogs. While I know not all people do the best by their dog, I wonder if they were encouraged more and more knowledgeable about the real struggles of the adolescent/young dog stage if they would hang in there a bit longer rather than give up. If people could just know that it’s a stage and keep training and not give up. I think it’s so easy to think, my dog is this age and he was so good earlier, so he should be a really well behaved and a “perfect” dog now so there must be something wrong. If people were more aware of the realities as their dogs mature. I know not all people would take the time to learn that and I know there are real issues and some severe, and some people just aren’t willing to do the work and be patient, but if folks were more prepared and knowledgeable for this stage in a dog’s life....makes me wonder if some dogs wouldn’t end up being given up on.

This just makes me want to say thank you again to all the support this forum offers! I know we are going to come out the other side of this sometimes trying adolescent stage! 
And PTP, thank you again for starting this thread! It was a most excellent and helpful idea!😊


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## PeggyTheParti

Amen, Spotty!! Peggy is also the first dog I've had who wasn't spayed or neutered at an early age. I've received so much support here while riding her hormonal roller coaster. I don't know where I'd have gotten that help otherwise. 

The other day she was particularly challenging. Like you said, it felt like she was supposed to be _over_ that stuff. Why's it coming back?? She's even started jumping on me excitedly again in the morning. 

Of course, if I slow down, take a breath, and really think about it, the behaviour is nowhere near as bad as it was 6 months ago. A gently murmured correction and she immediately stops—I'd have been thrilled with that not so long ago!


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## moubre01

I haven’t been able to check in here in a while but I am so thankful for this group. Especially this discussion right now. Stella is a year and almost 4 months and at times I could cry. Where did my well behaved puppy go and in her place is this wild crazy stubborn girl. I love her to pieces and just have to keep telling myself we will get back to that sweet girl. Has anyone else found that since COVID your pups have went kind of backwards. I know adolescence has majority to do with it but I find Stella has been worst since we haven’t been going places since March. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PeggyTheParti

moubre01 said:


> I haven’t been able to check in here in a while but I am so thankful for this group. Especially this discussion right now. Stella is a year and almost 4 months and at times I could cry. Where did my well behaved puppy go and in her place is this wild crazy stubborn girl. I love her to pieces and just have to keep telling myself we will get back to that sweet girl. Has anyone else found that since COVID your pups have went kind of backwards. I know adolescence has majority to do with it but I find Stella has been worst since we haven’t been going places since March.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes. That's a very real issue. We lost a lot of the progress we'd made in one particular area. Our house is perched on a little hill, and Peggy can see people coming up the sidewalk from quite a distance and will growl. Or if she's in the backyard and sees glimpses of them through the fence and shrubs, she will bark hysterically.

Once they're close enough to greet her, she's fine. But we've really failed at addressing that distance stuff. She even recently did it on a hike, when she saw people through the trees. That was a real regression.

At the start of covid, when she was 9-10 months old, we had long stretches of time where she saw no one at all. People weren't even out walking in our neighbourhood. Her socialization abruptly stalled and I focused more on one-on-one training. Even worse, she'd been in heat prior to that, so she'd already been cooped up for a month. Just a bad combo.

My advice to you would be to let go of the idea that your poodle is stubborn. Your poodle isn't stubborn, I promise.  She's got hormones telling her to test boundaries and explore further from home, and she's a dog, so she's always going to do what's most reinforcing/beneficial to her.

Think about the things she does seemingly automatically (e.g. running to the door when you pick up her leash) and then figure out how she's actually being rewarded for that, intentionally or otherwise. You'll see that consistent positive reinforcement is a driving force in her life, and you can harness that power for your own benefit.

For example, Peggy hated having her eyes cleaned until I started letting her eat the eye goop. Now a thumb approaching her delicate eye area—which used to just mean discomfort—means yummy things! Gross, I know, but it made both our lives easier.

If I'd not started doing that, she'd have entered adolescence and, with her newfound hormonal confidence, she'd have realized she didn't _have_ to let me poke around her eyes. She could back away. She could hide. She could even bite.

I'm still trying to understand what Peggy "gets" out of growling at people from a distance. If she was still nervous when they got close, it would make more sense to me.


----------



## moubre01

PeggyTheParti said:


> Yes. That's a very real issue. We lost a lot of the progress we'd made in one particular area. Our house is perched on a little hill, and Peggy can see people coming up the sidewalk from quite a distance and will growl. Or if she's in the backyard and sees glimpses of them through the fence and shrubs, she will bark hysterically.
> 
> Once they're close enough to greet her, she's fine. But we've really failed at addressing that distance stuff. She even recently did it on a hike, when she saw people through the trees. That was a real regression.
> 
> At the start of covid, when she was 9-10 months old, we had long stretches of time where she saw no one at all. People weren't even out walking in our neighbourhood. Her socialization abruptly stalled and I focused more on one-on-one training. Even worse, she'd been in heat prior to that, so she'd already been cooped up for a month. Just a bad combo.
> 
> My advice to you would be to let go of the idea that your poodle is stubborn. Your poodle isn't stubborn, I promise.  She's got hormones telling her to test boundaries and explore further from home, and she's a dog, so she's always going to do what's most reinforcing/beneficial to her.
> 
> Think about the things she does seemingly automatically (e.g. running to the door when you pick up her leash) and then figure out how she's actually being rewarded for that, intentionally or otherwise. You'll see that consistent positive reinforcement is a driving force in her life, and you can harness that power for your own benefit.
> 
> For example, Peggy hated having her eyes cleaned until I started letting her eat the eye goop. Now a thumb approaching her delicate eye area—which used to just mean discomfort—means yummy things! Gross, I know, but it made both our lives easier.
> 
> If I'd not started doing that, she'd have entered adolescence and, with her newfound hormonal confidence, she'd have realized she didn't _have_ to let me poke around her eyes. She could back away. She could hide. She could even bite.
> 
> I'm still trying to understand what Peggy "gets" out of growling at people from a distance. If she was still nervous when they got close, it would make more sense to me.


Thank you so much. You are right. I think I am just letting my frustration lately get the better of me. And I know Stella’s main problem right now is being bored. I bring her in the backyard and play with her and we do some training but she absolutely thrives on going places and also playing with other dogs and she hasn’t been getting any of that. Her main issue is jumping and nipping now with not only me but anyone she knows that comes over. People she doesn’t know she is a little standoffish with. I think it’s her being overexcited about company now. Have any advice for me on working with her on that particular issue?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dianaleez

Normie desperately wants to be In Charge.

Dream on little doggie. I survived two adolescent humans; one little dog ain't gonna shake my cool.

That said, we're training more and strategizing behind his back. Two humans vs one poodle. Not such good odds for us.


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## PeggyTheParti

moubre01 said:


> Thank you so much. You are right. I think I am just letting my frustration lately get the better of me. And I know Stella’s main problem right now is being bored. I bring her in the backyard and play with her and we do some training but she absolutely thrives on going places and also playing with other dogs and she hasn’t been getting any of that. Her main issue is jumping and nipping now with not only me but anyone she knows that comes over. People she doesn’t know she is a little standoffish with. I think it’s her being overexcited about company now. Have any advice for me on working with her on that particular issue?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Without seeing the jumping and nipping, it's hard to say. At that age, there is a clear difference between biting and mouthing. If it's biting, it likely means "stay away!" and I'd enlist the help of a good force-free trainer.

If it's mouthing, it likely means "I'm over-excited and don't know what to do with myself!!" Common practise is to teach an incompatible behaviour, like sitting or going to a mat when guests arrive. Peggy used to jump on our trainer at playdates, and she fixed it quick! She would produce a treat very rapidly at Peggy-level, the moment Peggy got close. By our next playdate, Peggy was automatically sitting and sniffing her hands instead of jumping.

I've never really dealt with standoffish behaviour before, but I'd probably take a no-pressure approach: Stella can greet people or not greet people. It's entirely her choice. Meanwhile, you remain calm and confident so she can trust you've got things under control. I'd probably also enlist the help of an expert, just to assess the situation. Anything that has the potential to turn into aggression (and fear is a big one for that) makes me want a professional opinion.

Then again, poodles are often more aloof than other dogs we encounter. They don't beg for affection and that's totally okay. They may also object to being pet on the head and take a step back. Also totally okay.


----------



## Mfmst

When Buck was maturing, I wanted SO many, many times in start his name with an F! His thieving is legend. Poodles absorb to the energy we give off, either at the other end of the leash or in the room. Takes a lot of trainer finesse and persistence every day, which is why poodle/pet ownership needs to be a commitment and not a whim. When I volunteered at a shelter, that’s what I saw with our intakes:adolescents or sad seniors.


----------



## MustLoveDogs

I'm having similar regressive issues with Cleo, especially since both my kids had been home for 6 months due to covid and now both are away living their lives (although one will be back from college in a couple weeks). My husband and I are both working from home, so we play with her and take walks, etc, but i don't have as much time to spend with her as my kids did, obviously. Recently she started doing things like chewing on the fringes of a rug or stealing (eg) and avocado off the counter--she thought it was a very cool ball! We never had a big counter-surfing problem, and she hadn't done anything like that for probably a year. I am guessing she's bored, and a bored poodle is a mischievous poodle. So I started doing short training sessions with her during breaks from work, even just 5-10 minutes where she has to follow me around the house and follow my instructions. Also something she likes a lot is "find it"--I hide a treat somewhere and she has to find it. She waits for me to hide it, I tell her to find it, and she sniffs around the house for it. 

But the big problem i've had is with recall when I want to call her inside from the yard. Her recall has always been sketchy in that situation--she'll respond for a few weeks or a couple months and then start ignoring it. One of my kids taught her to come when he whistled (of course, i'm a terrible whistler!), and that was working well. Now, though, she's started ignoring it again, which means i have to find another unique sound or word to re-train her on. It is extremely tedious! I don't know why i can't get it to stick with her.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

MustLoveDogs said:


> But the big problem i've had is with recall when I want to call her inside from the yard. Her recall has always been sketchy in that situation--she'll respond for a few weeks or a couple months and then start ignoring it.


Is it a party _every single time_ she responds to your call? Poodles are so dang smart, all it takes is one unpleasant recall to get their wheels turning. Like, "Hmmmmm. What I'm doing right now is REALLY fun. Why risk ending the fun when I can just keep going?"

Peggy still (knock on wood) gallops inside, full-speed, every time I call. But it's been hard to ensure my husband doesn't inadvertently poison that command, and I imagine it would be even harder with a larger household. I've actually considered coming up with my own secret word.

As for bored poodles, whoa can I ever relate to that. After putting herself to bed super early last night, I could sense Peggy was feeling feisty this morning, and so far today she's stolen two socks and a dish towel. The dish towel she carefully draped across the ottoman and then rested her chin on it, eyes locked on mine: "Try to grab it. I _dare_ you."


----------



## Olive Love

Olive is very problematic at 9 months old. She looks me in the eye and then does something that she knows is not allowed.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Olive Love said:


> Olive is very problematic at 9 months old. She looks me in the eye and then does something that she knows is not allowed.


More likely, she looks you in the eye to make sure you're watching, and then does something that's sure to get an entertaining reaction from you.


----------



## MustLoveDogs

PeggyTheParti said:


> Is it a party _every single time_ she responds to your call? Poodles are so dang smart, all it takes is one unpleasant recall to get their wheels turning. Like, "Hmmmmm. What I'm doing right now is REALLY fun. Why risk ending the fun when I can just keep going?"
> 
> Peggy still (knock on wood) gallops inside, full-speed, every time I call. But it's been hard to ensure my husband doesn't inadvertently poison that command, and I imagine it would be even harder with a larger household. I've actually considered coming up with my own secret word.
> 
> As for bored poodles, whoa can I ever relate to that. After putting herself to bed super early last night, I could sense Peggy was feeling feisty this morning, and so far today she's stolen two socks and a dish towel. The dish towel she carefully draped across the ottoman and then rested her chin on it, eyes locked on mine: "Try to grab it. I _dare_ you."


Yes, definitely! I give her excellent treats if she comes in when I call her, and i make a big deal about it, and when the kids were home they were all working on it with her. I think she is focused on what's happening outside and tunes us out if she's not interested in coming in. Plus, she has FOMO--she's always running to the fence to see what the neighbors are doing! Anyway, maybe i need to celebrate even more. Otoh, if i go outside and play with her for a few minutes, she'll nearly always come in when I'm ready, so i think she may also want me to come and play, so she waits it out to see if that will happen.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

MustLoveDogs said:


> Anyway, maybe i need to celebrate even more.


I find play works really well. She comes racing inside, we play tug or chase, I toss a treat or two, and then the energy naturally mellows. Then again, she's rarely outside alone, so that probably makes it easier. Once I start enforcing solo potty sessions, things might change.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Today marked a real adolescent milestone: Peggy stole her first mouthful from the kitchen garbage can!

I threw away a hunk of fat from tonight's pot roast and then wandered out of the kitchen for a sec. When I returned, my brain couldn't quite comprehend what my eyes were seeing. Where did Peggy's head go? Why is the garbage cabinet open??

It was that much of a shock.

I scared the you-know-what out of her. I accepted the fat as a loss (no way was I about to grab for it and possibly trigger a resource guarding episode) and simply slammed the cabinet shut. She jumped back, but it was short-lived. Less than a minute later, she was back to nosing the cabinet door, right in front of me! The nerve.

So.....I opened the cabinet, pulled the garbage bin out, and carefully placed a few paper towels on top, tucking in the edges so they covered the contents of the bin. I grabbed my trusty jug of vinegar and soaked the paper towels. And then I walked away. Moments later, I heard a poodle sneezing.

She didn't try again after that.


----------



## Olive Love

Olive is being BAD! Today I saw her chewing a wire. She does not seem to remember being electricuted after chewing a wire. When I told her not to, she let go and ran at me shrieking, barking and growling. She bit me. What can I do to prevent this.


----------



## Dianaleez

Has she done the 'shrieking, barking, growling' behavior before? If so, under what circumstances?

If she hasn't, I wonder if the wire shocked her a bit.


----------



## Olive Love

She has been doing it for the past few months, whenever I tell her not to do something.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Peggy is one and a half years old today. We now consistently have days where I feel blessed with the world's greatest dog.

And then for a week? Oh boy. I feel like I jinxed her by even having those positive thoughts. But just when I can't take one more second of the craziness...I've got the world's greatest dog again.

Like just now we were in the backyard playing. I picked up her leash and walked to the gate, fully expecting her to run some wild protest laps before grudgingly following. But she carefully put down her jolly ball, walked right over to me, and _lowered her head_ (rather unnecessarily) for me to clip the leash on. It was so cute, I almost cried. Instead I walked her ten feet out of the gate, and then turned her right back around for five minutes of bonus play.

We then proceeded to have the best walk of her life. Dog? Who cares. Bike? Who cares. Dog AND bike? Who cares.



















Hug your adolescents today, poodle friends! They may be going through some stuff, but underneath the crazy are some very good dogs.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

I'm wondering if anyone else has seen an increase in adolescent antics as their poodle reaches maturity? 

Peggy just commemorated a major growth spurt by chewing her first book—pretty impressive considering books have been all over our house, well within poodle range, since day 1. She carefully nibbled the corner off without even disturbing it!

She behaves like such a grown-up girl most of the time, we've definitely let down our guard.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

I'm going to keep using this as my personal venting space because the current period we're in is a challenging one. After chewing the corner of that book (which was funny and kinda cute because it was so unusual) she then proceeded to chew the handle off her toy basket. Seriously?? It happened in a matter of seconds, while I was on the phone. 

Then today she jumped on me while my husband and I were hugging. We told her to settle and finished hugging, then my husband engaged her in play and I playfully grabbed her rear end as I've done literally _hundreds_ of times before. It's one of her favourite games. Well this time she turned her head around and nibbled my hand. Fine. We've allowed gentle mouthing during play for a while now, because she's shown she can handle it.

Or at least she could.

This time the nibbling slowed and then—for the first time since she was an overexcited puppy—she abruptly pressed down harder on my hand before releasing. It was just her very front teeth (so I guess you could call it a nip) but it felt so deliberate! Like being pinched by a bratty kid. Or, more accurately, it felt like when our foster GSD would take hold of my elbow for any perceived transgression. Like she was telling me who was boss.

Not cool.

So now mouthing is back off the table (and maybe always should have been), which is going to be very hard to enforce with my husband. But I think it's clear Peggy's at an age where she's testing boundaries, consciously or otherwise. It's important she understand we're still calling the shots around here.

Since that episode, she has been clingy and conciliatory. Even her dopey teenager brain cares when the human is unimpressed.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Update: Her anal glands are bugging her, so I think I completely misread that situation. Poor girl.  She can't stop biting at herself.


----------



## Dianaleez

Poor Peggy and poor you. I hope she feels better.


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## PeggyTheParti

Dianaleez said:


> Poor Peggy and poor you. I hope she feels better.


Just a blip, as always. Thankfully!


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Sigh. Perfect poodle all morning. And then she walks over to our stack of magazines and newspapers, carefully pulls a Better Homes & Gardens off the top, looks me in the eye, and absolutely _shreds_ it in the ten seconds it took me to say "Go to your bed!"

Then back to perfect poodle.

When she was younger, we regularly gave her stuff to chew and shred in her exercise pen. Since retiring the pen, I realize she doesn't have that outlet anymore. She is living in a world of NO with very few yeses. Oops. If I've learned anything from Peggy, it's that offering a desirable alternative to anything off-limits is way more effective than just declaring boundaries.

Time to create some safe shredding opportunities and remind her that the world is fun....but the humans control it.


----------



## fjm

I think Sophy is having a late adolescence, now she is 12. Either that or sudden onset intermittent deafness! The morning argument about whether she really needs to go and pee on the furthermost blade of grass in a two acre estate just as I am about to get into the car, or can wait five minutes till we get down to the river, seems to take longer every day...


----------



## PeggyTheParti

fjm said:


> I think Sophy is having a late adolescence, now she is 12. Either that or sudden onset intermittent deafness! The morning argument about whether she really needs to go and pee on the furthermost blade of grass in a two acre estate just as I am about to get into the car, or can wait five minutes till we get down to the river, seems to take longer every day...


LoI I know those tiny senior tyrants well! Life goes a little more slowly in their presence.


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## Dianaleez

Normie and I are bringing this one back by popular demand. [mods, feel free to lock and open a new one if that works best, but this thread has good information]

My sweet poodle comes and goes only to be replaced by a surly tyrant who conveniently forgets every command he was ever taught. At those moments, we're no longer a team. 

Mr 'You Can't Make Me' Poodle


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## Elizabeth

I am subscribing to this thread - it is greatly need right now!


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## AliFenrisMom

When does adolescence start? Fenris is 6.5 months old and last class he did wonderfully when the trainer asked him to do stuff. But when it was time for us to practice, he just laid down and stared at me as I stuck the treat right under his nose. Just ignored me. Trainer comes over, he is happy, eager, tail wagging, wanting to please her. That has never happened before! If this is adolescence, then I am in need of support.


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## Dianaleez

He's a standard, isn't he? I borrowed this from Heart Song Standard Poodles:

6 – 18 months is the adolescent time period. Puppies may develop selective hearing and decide to try everything their own way. Puppies that may have been trained to come when called may decide to ignore you. Standard Poodles being extremely intelligent may find new and exciting ways to get into trouble and test their boundaries. People often say “I can’t believe my poodle did that” believing they had basic manners and training had been accomplished. Patience, consistent training, redirecting and a sense of humor are essential in raising your puppy.

Puppyhood doesn’t last just the first year. Standard poodles don’t fully mature until 18 – 24 months. Poodles' brains continue to mature, muscle mass and bone growth mature, impulse control develop and the last stages of teething (and hopefully chewing) ends

Normie's a mini and they usually mature a bit faster. But every dog is an individual, and he's just recently decided to think things over before he decides whether or not to comply.


----------



## AliFenrisMom

Dianaleez said:


> He's a standard, isn't he? I borrowed this from Heart Song Standard Poodles:
> 
> 6 – 18 months is the adolescent time period. Puppies may develop selective hearing and decide to try everything their own way. Puppies that may have been trained to come when called may decide to ignore you. Standard Poodles being extremely intelligent may find new and exciting ways to get into trouble and test their boundaries. People often say “I can’t believe my poodle did that” believing they had basic manners and training had been accomplished. Patience, consistent training, redirecting and a sense of humor are essential in raising your puppy.
> 
> Puppyhood doesn’t last just the first year. Standard poodles don’t fully mature until 18 – 24 months. Poodles' brains continue to mature, muscle mass and bone growth mature, impulse control develop and the last stages of teething (and hopefully chewing) ends
> 
> Normie's a mini and they usually mature a bit faster. But every dog is an individual, and he's just recently decided to think things over before he decides whether or not to comply.


Yup, he is a standard. I knew to expect adolescence but that was insane in puppy class. And the trainer was entertained too, she knows poodles well. She shrugged and told me he was a teen now, haha. It was crazy, last week he was my well trained pup who had amazing recall at the beach and now I can't trust him to sit on command.


----------



## Dianaleez

Yep, Normie gives me that 'dream on, lady' look.

He may be a pain one minute and a well-trained dog five minutes later. 

I deal with it by trying to break his train of thought/change his focus. So if he's on the leash, I walk him around in a circle then try again. If he pulls the leash to charge a robin, we do a SIT or circle walk. That usually snaps him out.


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## AliFenrisMom

Dianaleez said:


> Yep, Normie gives me that 'dream on, lady' look.
> 
> He may be a pain one minute and a well-trained dog five minutes later.
> 
> I deal with it by trying to break his train of thought/change his focus. So if he's on the leash, I walk him around in a circle then try again. If he pulls the leash to charge a robin, we do a SIT or circle walk. That usually snaps him out.


I will have to try that. It's still crazy to see the change from eager puppy to a thinking poodle who weighs the pros and cons before deciding whether he will listen or not.


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## PeggyTheParti

The fun thing about adolescence (lol) is that the obstinance/destruction/whatever-is-driving-you-nuts-today seems to ebb and flow. 

We just passed through another wave around 20 months.


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## AliFenrisMom

PeggyTheParti said:


> The fun thing about adolescence (lol) is that the obstinance/destruction/whatever-is-driving-you-nuts-today seems to ebb and flow.
> 
> We just passed through another wave around 20 months.


It's good to know. Everyone always talks about "puppy" difficulties but I've seen a lot less info on adolescence, or maybe I just wasn't looking enough. And this stage almost seems harder.


----------



## For Want of Poodle

Annie was a practically perfect puppy, and is a practically perfect adult. She was a sometimes hellish adolescent. 

There is a reason most dogs at shelters are 8-24 months ish. They outgrow cute puppy antics but don't grow into adult brains yet


----------



## PeggyTheParti

AliFenrisMom said:


> It's good to know. Everyone always talks about "puppy" difficulties but I've seen a lot less info on adolescence, or maybe I just wasn't looking enough. And this stage almost seems harder.


As a woman in her 40s, I feel the same way about perimenopause! All this talk about puberty and NOTHING about this next major shift in the hormonal tides. I really don’t know why that is. In the case of adolescent dogs, it is a literally fatal mistake to ignore the realities of this important period. Sooooo many dogs surrendered to shelters and euthanized just for being teens. This is partly why I push Ian Dunbar so hard on every new puppy owner that pops in here. He addresses these realities head-on.


----------



## AliFenrisMom

PeggyTheParti said:


> As a woman in her 40s, I feel the same way about perimenopause! All this talk about puberty and NOTHING about this next major shift in the hormonal tides. I really don’t know why that is. In the case of adolescent dogs, it is a literally fatal mistake to ignore the realities of this important period. Sooooo many dogs surrendered to shelters and euthanized just for being teens. This is partly why I push Ian Dunbar so hard on every new puppy owner that pops in here. He addresses these realities head-on.


I read him too. Theoretically I know. But reality is so much different. Fenris was a pretty easy puppy if I compare him to what I read online. It was just a shock to get such an extremely different behavior from him. But no way am I ever giving up on him. Bring on the moody teen stage!

And, ugh, 40s in just a couple of years away from me. I do not want to think about that number yet.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

AliFenrisMom said:


> I read him too. Theoretically I know. But reality is so much different. Fenris was a pretty easy puppy if I compare him to what I read online. It was just a shock to get such an extremely different behavior from him. But no way am I ever giving up on him. Bring on the moody teen stage!
> 
> And, ugh, 40s in just a couple of years away from me. I do not want to think about that number yet.


Ha! Don’t be afraid. It’s really quite liberating—yet another thing that’s rarely talked about. It’s like reverse puberty. All that self-consciousness slowly starts melting away.


----------



## 94Magna_Tom

PeggyTheParti said:


> This is partly why I push Ian Dunbar so hard on every new puppy owner that pops in here. He addresses these realities head-on.


Thanks for the reference. I just finished 'Before and After Getting Your Puppy'.
I'm glad I got the hardcopy because I'll be referring to it often! What book do you recommend next?


----------



## PeggyTheParti

94Magna_Tom said:


> Thanks for the reference. I just finished 'Before and After Getting Your Puppy'.
> I'm glad I got the hardcopy because I'll be referring to it often! What book do you recommend next?


I’m so glad you enjoyed it! I personally think sticking with one practical puppy raising guide is the best way to avoid confusing yourself or your puppy, but this is a great, more general read about our relationship with dogs: The Other End of the Leash: Why We Do What We Do Around Dogs: Patricia B. McConnell: 8601419962846: Amazon.com: Books

She has a wonderful blog, too:





__





The Other End of the Leash


Patricia McConnell, Ph.D., a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist, has made a lifelong commitment to improving the relationship between people and animals.




www.patriciamcconnell.com





And this will teach you a lot about canine thresholds and how to stay under them for effective training:









Fired Up, Frantic, and Freaked Out: Training the Crazy Dog from Over the Top to Under Control (Training Great Dogs): Baugh, Laura VanArendonk: 9780985934927: Amazon.com: Books


Fired Up, Frantic, and Freaked Out: Training the Crazy Dog from Over the Top to Under Control (Training Great Dogs) [Baugh, Laura VanArendonk] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Fired Up, Frantic, and Freaked Out: Training the Crazy Dog from Over the Top to Under Control...



www.amazon.com





Are there any other topics that you’re particularly interested in? Clicker training? Tricks? Grooming?

For online training resources, it doesn’t get much better than the late Dr. Sophia Yin. Her videos are excellent teachers.


----------



## 94Magna_Tom

PeggyTheParti said:


> I’m so glad you enjoyed it! I personally think sticking with one practical puppy raising guide is the best way to avoid confusing yourself or your puppy, but this is a great, more general read about our relationship with dogs: The Other End of the Leash: Why We Do What We Do Around Dogs: Patricia B. McConnell: 8601419962846: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> She has a wonderful blog, too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Other End of the Leash
> 
> 
> Patricia McConnell, Ph.D., a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist, has made a lifelong commitment to improving the relationship between people and animals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.patriciamcconnell.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this will teach you a lot about canine thresholds and how to stay under them for effective training:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fired Up, Frantic, and Freaked Out: Training the Crazy Dog from Over the Top to Under Control (Training Great Dogs): Baugh, Laura VanArendonk: 9780985934927: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> 
> Fired Up, Frantic, and Freaked Out: Training the Crazy Dog from Over the Top to Under Control (Training Great Dogs) [Baugh, Laura VanArendonk] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Fired Up, Frantic, and Freaked Out: Training the Crazy Dog from Over the Top to Under Control...
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are there any other topics that you’re particularly interested in? Clicker training? Tricks? Grooming?
> 
> For online training resources, it doesn’t get much better than the late Dr. Sophia Yin. Her videos are excellent teachers.


Once I get my pup, I'm sure everything will be a bit more challenging than I'm expecting. I'm dead set on doing the training myself, unless I get over my head. I am so looking forward to him being a perfect recall dog as I really want to be able to walk in the woods with him. I'm thinking about training him for hunting birds too, meaning not gun shy. Anyone here train their dog for hunting? As for grooming, I'll do what I need to to keep up (baths, nails, face-maybe), but at least for a while I'll use a groomer. Originally I figured grooming would facilitate bonding, but my breeder says, not so much. Need to find one, with poodle credentials, still.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

94Magna_Tom said:


> Anyone here train their dog for hunting?


This would make a great thread. I’d love to see some field poodles in action.

And this is the book you want for grooming: Poodle Clipping and Grooming: The International Reference: Kalstone, Shirlee: 9781630260279: Amazon.com: Books

I have a used copy, which is a little warped but perfectly readable. Loads of good information in there, even if you only wish to do the basics (which isn’t actually all that basic when it comes to poodles). I do think Peggy has developed a new respect for me since I started grooming her, but it’s also strained our relationship at times. She’s much more suspicious of my intentions when I reach for certain treats or open certain drawers or just get a certain gleam in my eye.

If you’ve got someone nearby who’s gentle and poodle savvy, and willing to go at your puppy’s pace, it’s well worth the cost of monthly appointments to get them accustomed to grooming. I think the reason Peggy’s so tolerant of my clumsy grooming efforts now is that excellent foundation she got from her groomer.


----------



## 94Magna_Tom

PeggyTheParti said:


> And this is the book you want for grooming: Poodle Clipping and Grooming: The International Reference: Kalstone, Shirlee: 9781630260279: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> I have a used copy, which is a little warped but...


Wow! Hard copy is ½ the price as softcover. I like hardcover much better. Ordered one "like new".


----------



## fjm

I am with you on the perimenopause, PtP - I only realised what was happening because I read an article in Good Housekeeping and realised I ticked nearly every box. The hormonal roller coaster of puberty all over again, plus a few other fun things like night sweats and brain fog, while trying to keep up with a demanding job and family responsibilities. The smooth waters on the other side are lovely, though. It has made me far more sympathetic to adolescents of all species, though. Perhaps that is its evolutionary role in human development, ensuring grandmothers had recent enough experience of hormonal turmoil to be able to cope with adolescent grandchildren when their own parents could not!


----------



## PeggyTheParti

fjm said:


> I am with you on the perimenopause, PtP - I only realised what was happening because I read an article in Good Housekeeping and realised I ticked nearly every box. The hormonal roller coaster of puberty all over again, plus a few other fun things like night sweats and brain fog, while trying to keep up with a demanding job and family responsibilities. The smooth waters on the other side are lovely, though. It has made me far more sympathetic to adolescents of all species, though. Perhaps that is its evolutionary role in human development, ensuring grandmothers had recent enough experience of hormonal turmoil to be able to cope with adolescent grandchildren when their own parents could not!


I love that idea, @fjm. No grandchildren for me, but my niece had her first baby last summer. I’ll be full of fresh empathy when he reaches puberty!


----------



## MustLoveDogs

PeggyTheParti said:


> I’m so glad you enjoyed it! I personally think sticking with one practical puppy raising guide is the best way to avoid confusing yourself or your puppy, but this is a great, more general read about our relationship with dogs: The Other End of the Leash: Why We Do What We Do Around Dogs: Patricia B. McConnell: 8601419962846: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> She has a wonderful blog, too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Other End of the Leash
> 
> 
> Patricia McConnell, Ph.D., a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist, has made a lifelong commitment to improving the relationship between people and animals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.patriciamcconnell.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this will teach you a lot about canine thresholds and how to stay under them for effective training:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fired Up, Frantic, and Freaked Out: Training the Crazy Dog from Over the Top to Under Control (Training Great Dogs): Baugh, Laura VanArendonk: 9780985934927: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> 
> Fired Up, Frantic, and Freaked Out: Training the Crazy Dog from Over the Top to Under Control (Training Great Dogs) [Baugh, Laura VanArendonk] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Fired Up, Frantic, and Freaked Out: Training the Crazy Dog from Over the Top to Under Control...
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are there any other topics that you’re particularly interested in? Clicker training? Tricks? Grooming?
> 
> For online training resources, it doesn’t get much better than the late Dr. Sophia Yin. Her videos are excellent teachers.


I love Patricia McConnell! I found that book incredibly helpful.


----------



## Dianaleez

We've had a few days of a mature, adult Normie - and omg - poodles rule!

I'm expecting the better behavior to come and go, but right now this little dog is knocking it out of the park. We are wondering how much daily practice for weekly dog class plus a day of puppy enrichment at once-a-week doggy daycare is helping.

For example, Mr. I-Hate-Wet-Feet decided to use the patio as his bathroom on wet days. All I had to do was stand at the top of the stairs and say "Normie, no" and he stopped. When he headed for the sidewalk, I said "No, go in the grass" and he did. I have no idea what words he understood and I don't care. The patio is clean.

Poodles are so clever and quick on the uptake. And so sweet 

He'll probably revert back to adolescent boredom in Sunday's class but today is nice.


----------



## Bailey_Whiskey

Wow! Didn't realize there was a support group for adolescents 

Whiskey decided to ignore all my commands during class last Saturday, and I was wondering if it was the chicken he hated.. I guess it could be adolescence coming. He's the first dog we've had that had any inkling of adolescence, all my other dogs went from cute rolly puppy to calm adult, no obvious teenage stage.

I can only hope cookies (he LOVES cookies) will help him pass his final test this week...


----------



## Dianaleez

"Whiskey decided to ignore all my commands during class last Saturday"

Sounds like this thread is for you!


----------



## LadyRay

Soooooo glad I found this thread! Adolescence has hit Xhosa late (shes always been a bit of a late bloomer lol). She all of a sudden gets excited to greet people and has started jumpy excited mouthy behavior with me. She was never jumpy or nippy as a puppy (so we skipped the land shark phase) and was always aloof with strangers but LOVES the people she knows. Now she's a total flirt and will "sit pretty" and give paw to people who show her attention! And once people greet her once, she acts like they're her best friend and gets super excited next time she sees them! And she's getting more protective at night and barking at "unfamiliar" things, which is good to see others have similar issues! This thread has brought me so much comfort to know that she is normal! I feel like I'm surrounded by perfect dogs! She's a really good dog, super easy to settle in the house and in public. She just has her moments where I think she's broken and needs to go back to the puppy factory for servicing lol


----------



## Phaz23

Just wanted to share some hi-jinks from this perfect little teenage demon-

He can ignore you so hard it physically hurts; when he gets frustrated or you take something from him that he's not ready to give up- he lets you know his disatisfaction by grinding on your leg; he will refuse steak but then gladly eat rocks, dirt, grass, and wood outside; when he’s very sleepy he screams when you move him, no emotion, no pulling away from you, no fear on his face, just a high pitched grammy-award winning scream; he decides at random that certain people/dogs need to be stared at and/or barked at- the more old and feeble, the better; he is mostly housebroken but sometimes decides to pee on my other dog; he is fine with being left alone for a couple of hours but sometimes if you use the bathroom without him, all hell will break loose; He's not very tall so he's started coffee table surfing, thus far he has not realized that he can jump 4ft off the ground (pray for us when he does); he uses his potty bells to demand my attention like I'm his butler; he knows many commands and will gladly forget all of them at will; he is learning to lift his leg but doesn't have the muscle strength so sometimes pees on his front legs, he gets very upset when he does this and promptly begins cleaning off the pee with his mouth/face, this makes him smell like a racoon-coyote ferret🙃

He’s 8 months old, absolutely out of his mind right now with hormones and makes me laugh every day. You really gotta have a sense of humor to survive these little terrors 😂


----------



## Thomazine

Mine just hit eight months, and veers between being a perfect angel and absolute wildness. This morning, he stole in quick succession: my kid's reading glasses, my husband's computer mouse, and my shoe so he could do wild zoomies around the house with his prize, eyes rolling in manic joy as he leapt the coffee table. His recall outside is just GONE, and he could care less about my clicker or his treats. We have also caught him TWICE on the couch this past week, and he hasn't tried that since he was tiny.

All this, but two days ago we met a family at the park and he sat quietly so each member could pet him at length, including their two year old. The father was raving about how elegant and dignified poodles were, and how they really should get one. I kept saying "They're actually quite active, high-energy dogs" and "They can be TRICKY puppies, you know" while Remy sat like an elegant statue for fifteen minutes, gazing nobly off into the distance as if he'd never dream of stealing my retainer and dumping it in a hole under the trampoline. Wanted to shake the father and tell him "IT'S A TRAP!" like Admiral Ackbar.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Phaz23 said:


> this makes him smell like a racoon-coyote ferret🙃


Thanks as always for the good laugh. Love your sense of humour and your little raccoon-coyote ferret.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Thomazine said:


> I kept saying "They're actually quite active, high-energy dogs" and "They can be TRICKY puppies, you know" while Remy sat like an elegant statue for fifteen minutes, gazing nobly off into the distance as if he'd never dream of stealing my retainer and dumping it in a hole under the trampoline. Wanted to shake the father and tell him "IT'S A TRAP!" like Admiral Ackbar.


Lollllllll


----------



## Bailey_Whiskey

Whiskey at 7.5 months is a terror in the house. Outside, he's the poster child for our trainer, a perfect well-behaved angel, straight A student. 

At home he's been table surfing, pillow hunting, being picky about his food, refusing to follow through on commands. But I have to say, he is getting better (compared to that failed class we had last month), he will at least sit when I ask him to (ok I'll be honest, beg him to). 

He's also slowly understanding our warning command (AH! in a mother's tone) and will at least look like he's thinking about whether he should proceed or not. But he is getting more skittish around odd random items, like a small red flying plastic bag and umbrellas of all shapes and sizes. He used to fear nothing 🤷‍♀️ but will now run at the sight of an umbrella, cowering between my legs..


----------



## Jo-DeV

Bailey_Whiskey said:


> Whiskey at 7.5 months is a terror in the house. Outside, he's the poster child for our trainer, a perfect well-behaved angel, straight A student.
> 
> At home he's been table surfing, pillow hunting, being picky about his food, refusing to follow through on commands. But I have to say, he is getting better (compared to that failed class we had last month), he will at least sit when I ask him to (ok I'll be honest, beg him to).
> 
> He's also slowly understanding our warning command (AH! in a mother's tone) and will at least look like he's thinking about whether he should proceed or not. But he is getting more skittish around odd random items, like a small red flying plastic bag and umbrellas of all shapes and sizes. He used to fear nothing 🤷‍♀️ but will now run at the sight of an umbrella, cowering between my legs..


----------



## Jo-DeV

I’ve had my toy poodle Lila for 5 months now. She is 6 months old and I am still struggling potty training. She can hold it but won’t. I am also worried about separation anxiety as I will be going back to the office next month after working remote since I got her. Anyone else experience this or have suggestions?


----------



## Dianaleez

Jo-DeV said:


> I’ve had my toy poodle Lila for 5 months now. She is 6 months old and I am still struggling potty training. She can hold it but won’t. I am also worried about separation anxiety as I will be going back to the office next month after working remote since I got her. Anyone else experience this or have suggestions?


You may want to start a new thread that will be noticed by more readers. I don't think as many people read this one. Something like "Need help with potty training for 6-month-old toy."

If you give a few more details about your potty training issues you may get some good suggestions. How often do you take her out? Where and when does she eliminate in the house? What do you do when she does? How often do you feed her?


----------



## Bailey_Whiskey

I have the opposite problem. Whiskey holds his pee for as long as he can and then only goes at home, 12 hours later. 
He did go through a phase of peeing where he’s not supposed to for a while when he was 6 months old. He would wait for me to be next to the balcony, look at me with mischief and pee, 2 steps away from the pee pad. I redid potty training, confinement and scheduled potty breaks (good thing I knew his schedule by that time). Was reliable again in a week and has never done it again. Except when the balcony was off limits eg Bailey eating, stormy weather etc.

With regards to separation anxiety, I have no clue how I managed to get Whiskey ok with being alone at home but not away from me outside..he goes crazy when I leave his side while we are out, even if it means staying alone with my sister who has treats, 10 steps away from me 🤷‍♀️


----------



## Olive Love

Phaz23 said:


> View attachment 476603
> 
> Just wanted to share some hi-jinks from this perfect little teenage demon-
> 
> He can ignore you so hard it physically hurts; when he gets frustrated or you take something from him that he's not ready to give up- he lets you know his disatisfaction by grinding on your leg; he will refuse steak but then gladly eat rocks, dirt, grass, and wood outside; when he’s very sleepy he screams when you move him, no emotion, no pulling away from you, no fear on his face, just a high pitched grammy-award winning scream; he decides at random that certain people/dogs need to be stared at and/or barked at- the more old and feeble, the better; he is mostly housebroken but sometimes decides to pee on my other dog; he is fine with being left alone for a couple of hours but sometimes if you use the bathroom without him, all hell will break loose; He's not very tall so he's started coffee table surfing, thus far he has not realized that he can jump 4ft off the ground (pray for us when he does); he uses his potty bells to demand my attention like I'm his butler; he knows many commands and will gladly forget all of them at will; he is learning to lift his leg but doesn't have the muscle strength so sometimes pees on his front legs, he gets very upset when he does this and promptly begins cleaning off the pee with his mouth/face, this makes him smell like a racoon-coyote ferret🙃
> 
> He’s 8 months old, absolutely out of his mind right now with hormones and makes me laugh every day. You really gotta have a sense of humor to survive these little terrors 😂


You know what! Olive oes just this! Exept that when I give her meat she loves it and avoids her regular food, insted she eats grass and dirt. Olie is spayed.


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## Thomazine

Today a bunch of young pullets ran right across Remy's path, followed by a toddler moving at high speed. I yelled "SIT!" and to my complete astonishment, Remy actually plopped his bottom down as even MORE chickens ran in front of him. He just sat there quivering until I released him. I was so proud, and got home thinking that I was NAILING this dog training stuff. 

So of course he's been a complete demon tonight, and struggled free and leapt clear on top of the the coffee table while I was trying to apply his eye drops. I have no idea.


----------



## Raindrops

Thomazine said:


> Today a bunch of young pullets ran right across Remy's path, followed by a toddler moving at high speed. I yelled "SIT!" and to my complete astonishment, Remy actually plopped his bottom down as even MORE chickens ran in front of him. He just sat there quivering until I released him. I was so proud, and got home thinking that I was NAILING this dog training stuff.
> 
> So of course he's been a complete demon tonight, and struggled free and leapt clear on top of the the coffee table while I was trying to apply his eye drops. I have no idea.


Wow that's awesome! Good Remy!

My eyedropper method is to have the dog between my legs facing the same direction that I am facing and tilt their head up. Stand against a wall of needed. Much easier to maintain control than going at it facing them.


----------



## Thomazine

He’s been having goopy eye issues since he was tiny - I took him to a veterinary ophthalmologist who told me there was nothing structurally wrong with his eyes, he’s just sensitive to Northern Virginia’s hellish pollen count. (As am I.) Usually he sits obediently while I put them in, but last night he got a wild hair and was off. NOT TONIGHT, MAMA.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Thomazine said:


> He’s been having goopy eye issues since he was tiny - I took him to a veterinary ophthalmologist who told me there was nothing structurally wrong with his eyes, he’s just sensitive to Northern Virginia’s hellish pollen count. (As am I.) Usually he sits obediently while I put them in, but last night he got a wild hair and was off. NOT TONIGHT, MAMA.


Peggy’s eye issues resolved when we stopped using our groomer’s shampoo. I got a hypoallergenic, fragrance-free shampoo (Earth Bath) and don’t allow it anywhere near her face.

Our vet also blamed seasonal allergies, and the connection with the shampoo was a little tricky to pinpoint, as it took a couple of days for the irritation after each bath to produce thick green goop. It got so bad, her eyes would sometimes seal shut overnight.


----------



## Thomazine

We don’t use shampoo on him - groomer’s advice. It’s just pollen, his symptoms vanish on wet days.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Thomazine said:


> We don’t use shampoo on him - groomer’s advice. It’s just pollen, his symptoms vanish on wet days.


That’s good you’ve found such a clear connection! Rare.


----------



## Oonapup

I think we are in the thick of it. A mixture of wins and rather serious oopses. This week alone, Oona has:

+ Had a perfect recall day in the field with three other adult dogs, was complimented for "doing so well"

- The next day, nearly ripped off my fingers with the leash taking off after her friend chasing a ball as we were trying to leave (we now always try to avoid the ball throwing dogs at the dog field, so when it picked up we left but as I was digging for a treat and looking down she took off, ripping the leash from my hand - fortunately I got her back pretty quickly)

+ Had a near perfect creek visit with me and my daughter, tons of recall and check-ins.

- Next time, same place, scared a child by chasing and barking at them. I had warned their parent that she was likely to chase if they ran, and to warn me so I could leash her up when his kids climbed down from this tree house by the creek. He missed his kid coming down and the child was chased. Still, it's my fault, I should have kept her leashed or left. My kid was playing in this tree house/platform with these other kids we'd met (and meeting her own severely neglected social needs) so I didn't want to just leave the area to avoid the other kids. Sigh. Meeting everyone's needs during COVID lockdown/school closure is really hard. I almost always have to take my kid with me on dog outings because that is the only way both of them are going to get outside. It means I have to split my attention and/or neglect one or the other.

+ Playing fetch with our own ball a ways away from other dogs after greeting them in the school field.

- Grabbed my 9 year old's hoodie sleeve and tugged on it hard, pulling her down and dragging her on the grass. My fault. I had encouraged them to both run after the ball and thought Oona would keep the ball in her mouth on the way back. Nope. We immediately left the park in a very serious mood and shunned her like a murderer, but I don't know if she got the message.

+ Recalled away from chasing a bird!

- Stole and started to chew the Roku remote

- Chewed on my laptop power cord (chewing has not been her thing, she's 'experimenting', clearly)

- Acted like a doofus with a dog at the park who doesn't like her pushy play style, almost getting in a fight but (uncharacteristically) not running back to me after getting told off, instead gamboling around in circles like a jerk, barking as the dog's owner held her dog and waited for me to get my butthole teenager.

+ I ultimately collected her after asking for and getting a down at a distance

- EDITED TO ADD ANOTHER FUN NEW PUNK ASS BEHAVIOR : Found a dead mouse to roll luxuriously around on, on two separate occasions

I know it's adolescence but I worry that Oona can feel that I'm pissed off and that my frustration and negativity could be impacting her somehow.


----------



## Thomazine

We're repeating the Young Dog Bridge class to work on Remy's distractibility around other dogs. Tonight was the first class of the new session... and he's STILL the worst-behaved dog in the class. They were working agility dogs on a new course in the other half of the hall, and there's an absolutely beautiful black girl poodle called Remi training. Every time Remi went up a ramp so my Remy could see her, he lost his ever-loving mind. When I wouldn't let him leap over the barrier to her, he threw his head back and sang the ballad of his woe. Oy. 

I just have to remind myself as I'm constantly, CONSTANTLY working to capture his attention for forty-five long minutes while all the half-grown labrador puppies gaze devotedly up at their owners, it will all pay off eventually. Right?!


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Thomazine said:


> I just have to remind myself as I'm constantly, CONSTANTLY working to capture his attention for forty-five long minutes while all the half-grown labrador puppies gaze devotedly up at their owners, it will all pay off eventually. Right?!


Right! Eventually. 

We’ve not done a class in a while, but it’s very possible Peggy would still be a massive handful. She’s 2.


----------



## LadyRay

Oonapup said:


> I think we are in the thick of it. A mixture of wins and rather serious oopses. This week alone, Oona has:
> 
> + Had a perfect recall day in the field with three other adult dogs, was complimented for "doing so well"
> 
> - The next day, nearly ripped off my fingers with the leash taking off after her friend chasing a ball as we were trying to leave (we now always try to avoid the ball throwing dogs at the dog field, so when it picked up we left but as I was digging for a treat and looking down she took off, ripping the leash from my hand - fortunately I got her back pretty quickly)
> 
> + Had a near perfect creek visit with me and my daughter, tons of recall and check-ins.
> 
> - Next time, same place, scared a child by chasing and barking at them. I had warned their parent that she was likely to chase if they ran, and to warn me so I could leash her up when his kids climbed down from this tree house by the creek. He missed his kid coming down and the child was chased. Still, it's my fault, I should have kept her leashed or left. My kid was playing in this tree house/platform with these other kids we'd met (and meeting her own severely neglected social needs) so I didn't want to just leave the area to avoid the other kids. Sigh. Meeting everyone's needs during COVID lockdown/school closure is really hard. I almost always have to take my kid with me on dog outings because that is the only way both of them are going to get outside. It means I have to split my attention and/or neglect one or the other.
> 
> + Playing fetch with our own ball a ways away from other dogs after greeting them in the school field.
> 
> - Grabbed my 9 year old's hoodie sleeve and tugged on it hard, pulling her down and dragging her on the grass. My fault. I had encouraged them to both run after the ball and thought Oona would keep the ball in her mouth on the way back. Nope. We immediately left the park in a very serious mood and shunned her like a murderer, but I don't know if she got the message.
> 
> + Recalled away from chasing a bird!
> 
> - Stole and started to chew the Roku remote
> 
> - Chewed on my laptop power cord (chewing has not been her thing, she's 'experimenting', clearly)
> 
> - Acted like a doofus with a dog at the park who doesn't like her pushy play style, almost getting in a fight but (uncharacteristically) not running back to me after getting told off, instead gamboling around in circles like a jerk, barking as the dog's owner held her dog and waited for me to get my butthole teenager.
> 
> + I ultimately collected her after asking for and getting a down at a distance
> 
> - EDITED TO ADD ANOTHER FUN NEW PUNK ASS BEHAVIOR : Found a dead mouse to roll luxuriously around on, on two separate occasions
> 
> I know it's adolescence but I worry that Oona can feel that I'm pissed off and that my frustration and negativity could be impacting her somehow.


If I didn't know any better, I would've thought you were describing my girl 🤣🤣 I was mortified when she began to bully another dog at the dog beach (in the exact same way you just described). She hadn't done that since she was 9 months! And then in the exact same beach day like 10 mins later, she happily recalled to me while playing nicely with another dog who was ran outside of the beach boundaries and then happily relaxed next to me for the rest of our visit. Oh adolescence. Sometimes those glimpses of a 3 year old poodle shine through, then that teenage 9 month old rears it's floofy head and you start to reevaluate your life's decisions 🤣


----------



## Thomazine

Is it likely that my boy is experiencing another fear cycle at the age of twelve months? He’s just started startling and barking at everything - a neighbor all the way down the street got a volley of distressed barking when we were on the porch the other night.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Thomazine said:


> Is it likely that my boy is experiencing another fear cycle at the age of twelve months? He’s just started startling and barking at everything - a neighbor all the way down the street got a volley of distressed barking when we were on the porch the other night.


It’s definitely possible:



https://spcawake.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/DogFearPeriods.pdf


----------



## 94Magna_Tom

PeggyTheParti said:


> It’s definitely possible:
> 
> 
> 
> https://spcawake.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/DogFearPeriods.pdf


Thank you for that article. I hadn't read about fear periods before.


----------



## fjm

Interesting research on dog adolescence: Teenage dogs? Evidence for adolescent-phase conflict behaviour and an association between attachment to humans and pubertal timing in the domestic dog | Biology Letters


----------



## PeggyTheParti

fjm said:


> Interesting research on dog adolescence: Teenage dogs? Evidence for adolescent-phase conflict behaviour and an association between attachment to humans and pubertal timing in the domestic dog | Biology Letters


Thank you for sharing! Bookmarking to read this evening.


----------



## cowpony

I took Ritter out on a long walk by himself to work on leash manners yesterday. At 9 months he is very much at a stage where he looks like an adult, but he clearly does not think like one yet. Despite getting daily walks around the neighborhood, this walk without Galen was sensory overload for him. Just too many sights, sounds, and smells for a puppy, and no grown dog to show him how to react to them all! At one point we passed a house getting a new roof. The sight of people walking on top of a house and the sound of the nail guns unnerved him quite a bit. I stopped at the edge of the property and coaxed him to eat handfuls of treats as we watched the roofers working. I think I need to find some more construction projects for him to observe.


----------



## Tulsi

Rusty still takes the stance "if in doubt, bark it out" it can get a touch frustrating. He is almost 8 months.


----------



## Deere

Raindrops said:


> HA! No way. I would not manage without an x pen. I think poodles are good at teaching us how to find enjoyment from the most mundane things. Like discovering how many pieces a receipt can be shredded into. _Hint: It's a lot more than you think!_
> 
> Last time Misha was at the vet he peed on the reception counter and I was mortified.


Ivan is also another teenage deliquient and seems to delight in embarrassing me; I had company(older woman)& he refused to settle, acted like he didn't know any commands like off or sit also wouldn't let me get a leash on him danced/pranced. Ivan then tried to vacuum her from her head(he stood on the arm of the chair & towered over her) to her feet, pulled the fringe on her boucle wool jacket and was getting ready to mouth/pinch/nibble on her hand when I got him. She remarked"that maybe he needs some manners"(sarcasm you think).
Like Phaz's Tekno(spell check keeps changing his name) he thinks I am his servant with the door bells getting louder and crazier until I open the patio door & then he stands there for less than minute & comes back in. This often happens when I go to the bathroom or right after he was just out.
Ivan thinks he is the Petco greeter during class; barks Loud & prances then shows off that he can do everything including his shake, spin and gimme 5 for the touch command. LOL
He acts like the neighbor Mike next door is a stranger; barking barking & more barking yet wags his tail when he sees him from the kitchen window.
Ivan is back to nipping, pinching the back of my arms, heels and both my sister's butt, mouthing my hands. He will act like he just wants to hold my hand then looks me in the eye & starts to bite down until I sternly say easy.
He act like he is going to be nice to my sister's (he usually is) 2 minipoos then when I look away he puts his foot on their shoulders & presses down. You can imagine that neither my sister or the minipoos are to happy with us.
Ivan steals my toothbrush, tp and has tried for the pt but basically anything he can reach and carry. He runs from me then(I don't play That game) taking it to the middle of the back yard shredding as he goes including my underwear. I no longer keep the patio door ajar and I am mortified.
Yet he's always by my side, willing to take a rest with me whenever I need to, go anywhere and willing to try new experiences. I love him; teenager and all.
I just can not wait for this phase to end; patience and more patience, counting to ten and praising every little good thing so there's not too many No' s in 1 day.


----------



## Beachpup

Deere said:


> Ivan is also another teenage deliquient and seems to delight in embarrassing me; I had company(older woman)& he refused to settle, acted like he didn't know any commands like off or sit also wouldn't let me get a leash on him danced/pranced. Ivan then tried to vacuum her from her head(he stood on the arm of the chair & towered over her) to her feet, pulled the fringe on her boucle wool jacket and was getting ready to mouth/pinch/nibble on her hand when I got him. She remarked"that maybe he needs some manners"(sarcasm you think).
> Like Phaz's Tekno(spell check keeps changing his name) he thinks I am his servant with the door bells getting louder and crazier until I open the patio door & then he stands there for less than minute & comes back in. This often happens when I go to the bathroom or right after he was just out.
> Ivan thinks he is the Petco greeter during class; barks Loud & prances then shows off that he can do everything including his shake, spin and gimme 5 for the touch command. LOL
> He acts like the neighbor Mike next door is a stranger; barking barking & more barking yet wags his tail when he sees him from the kitchen window.
> Ivan is back to nipping, pinching the back of my arms, heels and both my sister's butt, mouthing my hands. He will act like he just wants to hold my hand then looks me in the eye & starts to bite down until I sternly say easy.
> He act like he is going to be nice to my sister's (he usually is) 2 minipoos then when I look away he puts his foot on their shoulders & presses down. You can imagine that neither my sister or the minipoos are to happy with us.
> Ivan steals my toothbrush, tp and has tried for the pt but basically anything he can reach and carry. He runs from me then(I don't play That game) taking it to the middle of the back yard shredding as he goes including my underwear. I no longer keep the patio door ajar and I am mortified.
> Yet he's always by my side, willing to take a rest with me whenever I need to, go anywhere and willing to try new experiences. I love him; teenager and all.
> I just can not wait for this phase to end; patience and more patience, counting to ten and praising every little good thing so there's not too many No' s in 1 day.


I totally get it. How old is Ivan? My spoo is 12 months and does all the things Ivan does. I am wondering when it ends?


----------



## PeggyTheParti

At 2.5, Peggy goes long stretches now where we forget she’s still maturing. But then she acts like a nut and makes us feel like we’ve made no progress at all (even though we know better).

For example, on her walk yesterday with my husband, she growled nervously at a group of people exiting a store, and then excitedly lunged at another. Both situations were extremely embarrassing for my husband.

And then, in typical _what-the-heck-are-you-thinking-dog?_ fashion, she was completely fine when multiple emergency vehicles raced through an intersection they were waiting at, sirens blaring.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Phaz23

Tekno is both gaining more brain cells and becoming more sassy. I ask him to do things and he looks at me like "Why, though?"  I know he understands me, I can see the wheels turning and sometimes he starts the movement than goes "wait, a minute...I think I won't.". For anyone that says Toys are adults at 12 months, I'm finding that's not quite true. His personality is still definitely developing. He's more focused and drivey, but also has a definite sassiness and if it's not fun/boring, he says "screw you, mom". I know now that he hates drills and non clarity, so I have to practice pretty solid handler mechanics or I'll have a little angry teen telling me off about it .


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Phaz23 said:


> "wait, a minute...I think I won't."


Lol! That nicely sums up adolescence.


----------



## Rose n Poos

LOL, Poodle Smarts in a nutshell . They observe, they consider, they _conclude, _with a bit of "What's in it for me?"




Phaz23 said:


> Toys are adults at 12 months, I'm finding that's not quite true.


Only physically .


----------



## Tulsi

Rusty finds children very exciting and always wants to jump up at them. I put him on the lead as soon as any chilren come into view ...


----------



## cowpony

I think Ritter has entered into a fear period. Last week on our trip to town I noticed he was unusually dog reactive. I thought he was just overwhelmed with the novelty of it all. However, today on our regular walking route he had a total barking meltdown when a dog tethered in someone's open garage bay gave a wuff. 

I decided to make it a training exercise. Each time we got close to the dog's yard Ritter would start to bark. I turned him around and walked away until he stopped barking and looking back over his shoulder. Then I turned around and approached the dog's yard again. After the fifth or sixth time he had calmed down enough that we were able to get in front of the dog's house. At that point I noticed Ritter actually wasn't paying much attention to the dog. Instead he was staring intently at corner of landscaping fabric that was sticking up from some bark mulch and flapping in the breeze. He went into full apprehensive crouch, tail down, weight shifting from side to side as he considered his retreat while still eyeing the flapping fabric. I walked over to the fabric and stomped on it. Ritter wasn't sure initially that I had truly neutralized the threat, but after a few moments consideration he came over to inspect the fabric under my foot. I then gave him some treats, and we continued on the walk.

He is so big, and in general he is so much calmer than Galen was, that I really forget what a puppy Ritter still is. He's around 9 months now.


----------



## PhoebeDuck

Why does this not have a sticky??? 😁


----------



## Rian

I need to join this support group. I've been _struggling_ ever since cooler weather rolled around. She's 1 year 3 months...is that still the adolescent phase? 😭

We went to the vet yesterday to get titers done. She barked at the vet and everyone in the office for an embarrassingly long time. I worked out that the vet should enter the room BEFORE we do so she's not "protecting her space", so at least we have that note in her file now. I finally had to step out of the room, thinking she was being protective of me, and she immediately calmed down. I'm so scared by the way she's acting with strangers, lately. She's always been wary, and I REALLY tried to socialize her early, but it just feels like she's getting worse.

Now today, huge snowstorm comes through, we go outside to play. She snarls and snaps at a nice dog who was out there after I asked if it was alright for them to say hi, so I feel like _that_ dog owner. 

She spends the rest of the time shrieking. She was probably just overly excited, it's been cold lately and we've lost our routine that was working pretty well during the warmer months. 

This little monster will not stop barking. 

Someone on here said easy puppies are the worst teenagers. She was REAL easy for a while. I cannot wait for my sweet, easy little puppy to return and replace this demon child that has spawned.

I'm so grateful for all of you people and your honest tales, it's easy to start feeling alone when the going gets tough.


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## PhoebeDuck

Rian said:


> I need to join this support group. I've been _struggling_ ever since cooler weather rolled around. She's 1 year 3 months...is that still the adolescent phase? 😭
> 
> We went to the vet yesterday to get titers done. She barked at the vet and everyone in the office for an embarrassingly long time. I worked out that the vet should enter the room BEFORE we do so she's not "protecting her space", so at least we have that note in her file now. I finally had to step out of the room, thinking she was being protective of me, and she immediately calmed down. I'm so scared by the way she's acting with strangers, lately. She's always been wary, and I REALLY tried to socialize her early, but it just feels like she's getting worse.
> 
> Now today, huge snowstorm comes through, we go outside to play. She snarls and snaps at a nice dog who was out there after I asked if it was alright for them to say hi, so I feel like _that_ dog owner.
> 
> She spends the rest of the time shrieking. She was probably just overly excited, it's been cold lately and we've lost our routine that was working pretty well during the warmer months.
> 
> This little monster will not stop barking.
> 
> Someone on here said easy puppies are the worst teenagers. She was REAL easy for a while. I cannot wait for my sweet, easy little puppy to return and replace this demon child that has spawned.
> 
> I'm so grateful for all of you people and your honest tales, it's easy to start feeling alone when the going gets tough.


You might need/want to post that as a separate thread. Maybe someone will have advice that can help?? This thread is a year old. 🙃 And yes, you are definitely in the adolescent stage still.


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## Liz

Honestly, this thread is timeless. It should be stickied on the landing page, because so many people come to PF for this.


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## PeggyTheParti

Rian said:


> I need to join this support group. I've been _struggling_ ever since cooler weather rolled around. She's 1 year 3 months...is that still the adolescent phase? 😭
> 
> We went to the vet yesterday to get titers done. She barked at the vet and everyone in the office for an embarrassingly long time. I worked out that the vet should enter the room BEFORE we do so she's not "protecting her space", so at least we have that note in her file now. I finally had to step out of the room, thinking she was being protective of me, and she immediately calmed down. I'm so scared by the way she's acting with strangers, lately. She's always been wary, and I REALLY tried to socialize her early, but it just feels like she's getting worse.
> 
> Now today, huge snowstorm comes through, we go outside to play. She snarls and snaps at a nice dog who was out there after I asked if it was alright for them to say hi, so I feel like _that_ dog owner.
> 
> She spends the rest of the time shrieking. She was probably just overly excited, it's been cold lately and we've lost our routine that was working pretty well during the warmer months.
> 
> This little monster will not stop barking.
> 
> Someone on here said easy puppies are the worst teenagers. She was REAL easy for a while. I cannot wait for my sweet, easy little puppy to return and replace this demon child that has spawned.
> 
> I'm so grateful for all of you people and your honest tales, it's easy to start feeling alone when the going gets tough.


I’m okay with keeping this thread an ongoing support space, even as I cringe when I read back over my contributions. Eeek! The memories.

Adolescence can indeed be super trying. You are NOT alone! 

Are you working with a trainer or using a specific methodology to help with the reactivity? In my experience, this stuff can often get worse with maturity, not better. Peggy, for example, was quite dog social until we approached her second birthday. At that point, all the negative interactions she’d had with off-leash aggressive or poorly socialized dogs seemed to catch up with her and she decided NO MORE.


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## Rian

PeggyTheParti said:


> I’m okay with keeping this thread an ongoing support space, even as I cringe when I read back over my contributions. Eeek! The memories.
> 
> Adolescence can indeed be super trying. You are NOT alone!
> 
> Are you working with a trainer or using a specific methodology to help with the reactivity? In my experience, this stuff can often get worse with maturity, not better. Peggy, for example, was quite dog social until we approached her second birthday. At that point, all the negative interactions she’d had with off-leash aggressive or poorly socialized dogs seemed to catch up with her and she decided NO MORE.


It's really only with dogs larger than her and if they come up to her QUICKLY and get into her face. Otherwise she's perfectly fine and very playful and friendly with all types of dogs. It's actually kind of unpredictable which dogs she will and will not be okay with...perhaps I just need to keep my distance from strange dogs. Probably safer that way, anyway. 

I haven't reached out to any private trainers, we went through a whole series of obedience classes and learned some strategies such as LAT and the like. We still go to an agility class once a week but that's about all. Definitely not opposed to doing some private sessions with someone - just haven't felt like I needed it until now!

It's so funny with puppies, we just had some HVAC technicians come into the house and she was absolutely lovely! Certainly nervous but I kept her at a distance where she felt safe (under threshold I guess) and she didn't utter a single bark. 🤷‍♀️


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## PeggyTheParti

Rian said:


> It's really only with dogs larger than her and if they come up to her QUICKLY and get into her face. Otherwise she's perfectly fine and very playful and friendly with all types of dogs. It's actually kind of unpredictable which dogs she will and will not be okay with...perhaps I just need to keep my distance from strange dogs. Probably safer that way, anyway.
> 
> I haven't reached out to any private trainers, we went through a whole series of obedience classes and learned some strategies such as LAT and the like. We still go to an agility class once a week but that's about all. Definitely not opposed to doing some private sessions with someone - just haven't felt like I needed it until now!
> 
> It's so funny with puppies, we just had some HVAC technicians come into the house and she was absolutely lovely! Certainly nervous but I kept her at a distance where she felt safe (under threshold I guess) and she didn't utter a single bark. 🤷‍♀️


I think dogs are tuned into so much more than we humans can ever really understand. We certainly can’t read situations as quickly as they can, which is why it can sometimes feel like outbursts come out of nowhere.

As a general rule, we try to avoid face-to-face meetings on leash. There’s just too much that can go wrong and negative interactions stack up, triggering disproportionate reactions. As you saw with the HVAC encounter, creating distance for a nervous adolescent can significantly cut down on stress and prevent an outburst. We still do that for Peggy. I believe every encounter that doesn’t push a dog over threshold is a win. Just keep banking those positive experiences. 

If you’re looking to add to your training arsenal, this is a well-reviewed online option: Tackling Reactivity Bundle

We first learned about SpiritDog from our in-person trainer, and their free content on Facebook and Instagram has been a daily source of support and inspiration ever since.


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## PeggyTheParti

PhoebeDuck said:


> Why does this not have a sticky??? 😁





Liz said:


> Honestly, this thread is timeless. It should be stickied on the landing page, because so many people come to PF for this.


Done.


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## Rian

PeggyTheParti said:


> I think dogs are tuned into so much more than we humans can ever really understand. We certainly can’t read situations as quickly as they can, which is why it can sometimes feel like outbursts come out of nowhere.
> 
> As a general rule, we try to avoid face-to-face meetings on leash. There’s just too much that can go wrong and negative interactions stack up, triggering disproportionate reactions. As you saw with the HVAC encounter, creating distance for a nervous adolescent can significantly cut down on stress and prevent an outburst. We still do that for Peggy. I believe every encounter that doesn’t push a dog over threshold is a win. Just keep banking those positive experiences.
> 
> If you’re looking to add to your training arsenal, this is a well-reviewed online option: Tackling Reactivity Bundle
> 
> We first learned about SpiritDog from our in-person trainer, and their free content on Facebook and Instagram has been a daily source of support and inspiration ever since.


Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm going to dive into these resources this weekend. 

You're totally right. It's always on-leash and when she's a bit overexcited AND I'm there to be "protected" when she gets a little wild. So I guess it's not so unpredictable after all.

I wonder, too...the dog she met today was doing that thing where they lay down flat on the ground and lower their head between their front legs and just STARE, stark still. Is this intimidating body language to a dog? I think most people interpret it as "cute" but I'm starting to wonder if maybe it makes a dog feel like they're being stalked. I'm sure I could do some quick googling on what this behavior means, too. Maybe she's just smarter than me and knew this dog was potentially questionable. 

Thank you again 🙏


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