# complaint against a vet hospital (Chicago)



## dawns (Jun 29, 2010)

good job!! i would be very upset as well.


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

*Veterinarian accountability*

As an FYI to all, In the USA, vets are licensed by a board in the state they work in. Official complaints can be filed with the board if one feels that the complaint is significant enough to warrant such action. Here are a list of the state boards:

File Complaint - Vets and Veterinarians


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I would also be very upset. Very careless behavior by the clinic. Your letter states your case beautifully.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

I would be very upset too! My vet requires the owner or legal guardian (appointed by owner) to sign a consent form, and a hospital admission form that clearly outlines the procedures and medical care for the patient. The techs are really good about explaining things and answering questions. 

You're so right that a dog undergoing anesthesia shouldn't be given any vaccinations. My vet didn't give my poodle any shots prior to his dental/neuter surgery. He had blood work done and that's it! 

I can't wait to hear their reason (excuse) for giving your dog these unauthorized shots.


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

I will keep everyone updated!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

WOW! So no matter your beliefs or how careful you are, somebody can screw things up. What a shame! You letter is very concise.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

*fracturedcircle:* It's simply outrageous how that hospital administered vaccines _without_ your approval, and was so dismissive of your mother! Your letter is very well written and I know you won't rest until the matter is addressed to your satisfaction. How is Llama doing? I know you will watch her for any possible vaccine-related reactions. I am hoping and thinking she will be just fine--what_ isn't_ "fine" is the added stress you, she and your mother have had to endure! I'm sorry this happened!


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

My vet didn't even give Nickel his vaccines when he was on antibiotics for his bladder infection. I asked and she said no. Yes, I had to make another trip but I am glad that my vet cares and wants the best for her patients. She even made a note on our file saying that no office consultation fee should be charged for the vaccines visit and also the visit for the rabies shot.

I hope Llama is doing fine now. Let us know how it goes.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Excellent point schnauzerpoodle. My vet says the same. She does not like to give vaccinations to a dog in stress and only charges for a shot not an office visit. Rowan - does your vet require signatures for shots? I can't remember if mine did but I know we went over the risks and benefits of each shot and she said she would not administer more than one shot at a time on a small dog and it was her strong preference for any dog.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

CT Girl said:


> Excellent point schnauzerpoodle. My vet says the same. She does not like to give vaccinations to a dog in stress and only charges for a shot not an office visit. *Rowan - does your vet require signatures for shots? * I can't remember if mine did but I know we went over the risks and benefits of each shot and she said she would not administer more than one shot at a time on a small dog and it was her strong preference for any dog.


Oh yes. If you drop a dog/cat off for any procedure, they won't do anything you (owner or designated guardian) don't approve, and that includes blood work and vaccinations. For example, if you're dropping off for a dental cleaning, you have to authorize extractions. They have three different "criteria"--one is authorization of extractions that were discussed at pre-op visit; one is authorization of additional extractions the vet deems necessary IF they speak to you first; the third option is authorizing the vet to extract the teeth they feel are necessary for the health of the dog w/out contacting you. For the second option, they'll contact you by phone and if they can't reach you, they just won't do it. You also have to sign an anesthesia document--it's just a record you sign saying that you have read the risks and understand the procedure your dog / cat is about to undergo, etc. 

My vet is big on the titers v. booster shots too (and he did the titers every three years). And he wouldn't give my senior dogs anything except for the required rabies. (I don't board, take them to groomers, etc. etc.) One of the other vets fights me on the titers--I don't feel it's necessary to pay $60 to get an annual titer based on all the evidence that suggests the antibodies last so much longer, etc. She tried to tell me that adult dogs die from parvo/distemper---the statistics show that healthy adult dogs _rarely _contract, much less _die _from distemper/parvo, and that the vaccination is more likely to cause problems!

What do you guys think???


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I would be PO'd as well. Unfortunately there are plenty of vet offices out for every dollar they can get. I have had to state specifically what my pup was to get & they would try to get me to do other tests which I refused. I had only gone in for vaccination series for my newest member (all my other dogs we vaccinate ourselves except of course Rabits). With her I decided to do the vet visits for the first year & then do my own. They tried to get me to do fecal but I said no I do my own wormings, tried to sign her up for an early spay- said no, tried to get me to do Lepto- said NO only wanted 5 way, tried to schedule me for Rabies- said NO going to clinic. So, an owner ALWAYS has to be on top of what the techs are going for & the vet as well. I also hate that my vet charges me a "vet visit" for each of my dogs when there is a group going. I had one going for shots $35 vet visit, 1 for updated Comfortis perscription $35 vet visit & 1 that I just wanted to get the Hearworm perscription for already had the negative bloodwork in & yup slipped in a $35 vet visit & all 3 were in at the same time in the same room. That was a large bill. Lucky for me they do honor a "prescription" match. Drs. Foster & Smith is a good $20.00 cheaper than what my vet charges for Comfortis & Trifexis & I tell them to look up price & they will match.


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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

If you don't receive a written apology for the administration of the 2 shots and the lack of respect for your mother, and a refund of your money for the unauthorized shots, I wouldn't hesitate to contact the veterinary board of your state. When I had a very serious issue with a former vet that he blew off, I did this, and the board contacted the vet pretty quickly. It was amazing how fast the vet contacted me and wanted me to meet him in his office to come to "an agreement"!

I hope you get satisfaction from your well-written letter.


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## Spencer (Oct 7, 2009)

Hopefully they have a good answer. If Llama starts to feel under the weather, I would definitely hold them solely accountable.

My mother took her greyhound in for stitches and came back to pay the bill and pick her up only to find they had given her the canine influenza vaccine - which we have both researched and did NOT want. My mom was refunded the money, but that doesn't take the vaccine out of the dog, now does it? It is so annoying when we aren't listened to concerning our own dogs!


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

thank you everyone!

Llama is fine now, but are there any specific side effects I should be looking out for? I heard that they may take a while to manifest.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I don't know about side effects but I have a nosy question. Llama's teeth look so white and healthy in pictures why did some need to be removed? I am glad to hear she is feeling well now - having teeth out is no fun.


Rowan - my vet agrees with you on the Parvo. There was an outbreak in my area so she thought Swizzle should get it as a puppy but she said he probably should not get it in the future.


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

CT Girl said:


> Llama's teeth look so white and healthy in pictures why did some need to be removed?


they were baby teeth. they wouldn't come out even though she always gets lots of chews and we even tried wiggling the teeth with a cloth. I didn't want want the remaining baby teeth to mess up her permanent teeth and bite.

thank you for the compliment on her teeth--we brush them almost daily. :smile:

thank goodness Vlada's baby teeth came out fine.


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

do people give parvo/distemper for the *first* annual booster? (I know that further boosters are not necessary for at least several years.)

re the refund request: I was actually very hesitant to put it in and asked for feedback from a couple of people... because yeah, it's not like a refund can make everything OK. but then I thought: why should I be above it and just give them this sweet little gift (my money)? the others encouraged me as well, so I went for it. 

what is really upsetting is that I actually wanted to upgrade the hospital. this place has a better reputation and is pricier, but my girls deserve the best care possible. I just feel cheated. :crying:


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

fracturedcircle said:


> do people give parvo/distemper for the *first* annual booster? (I know that further boosters are not necessary for at least several years.)
> 
> re the refund request: I was actually very hesitant to put it in and asked for feedback from a couple of people... because yeah, it's not like a refund can make everything OK. but then I thought: why should I be above it and just give them this sweet little gift (my money)? the others encouraged me as well, so I went for it.
> 
> what is really upsetting is that I actually wanted to upgrade the hospital. this place has a better reputation and is pricier, but my girls deserve the best care possible. I just feel cheated. :crying:


My holistic veterinarian follows Dr. Jean Dodd's Protocol - 8, 12, 16 weeks and then 1.5 years of age. After the 1.5 years of age vaccine, the dog should be immune for life. Millie had her last set of DHPPV shots (would have preferred DPV, but no vets around here had it) at 1.5 years and will likely never be vaccinated again (except for Rabies). We did not do bordetella and will not unless I ever need to board her.


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

ChocolateMillie said:


> My holistic veterinarian follows Dr. Jean Dodd's Protocol - 8, 12, 16 weeks and then 1.5 years of age. After the 1.5 years of age vaccine, the dog should be immune for life. Millie had her last set of DHPPV shots (would have preferred DPV, but no vets around here had it) at 1.5 years and will likely never be vaccinated again (except for Rabies). We did not do bordetella and will not unless I ever need to board her.


1.5 year after the first vaccine or the last in a series? I doubt we'll ever need to board ours.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

fracturedcircle said:


> 1.5 year after the first vaccine or the last in a series? I doubt we'll ever need to board ours.


At ~1.5 years of age. The final set of vaccinations was given 1 year after the 16 week puppy vax. 

In other words, a puppy that completed their vax. at 16 weeks (as they should), will be vaccinated at approx. 1 year, 16 weeks of age. Then, should have lifetime immunity.


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

so i got a call (message) saying that they did NOT give the vaccines and that it was all a mistake. he also said that the vet decided not to give Llama IV fluids. we are positive it is BS because when my mom was telling the tech that she was very upset and that her daughter (me) would be extremely upset too, the tech did not say anything. now, the tech did say that Llama had been given IV, so that was an obvious lie. but basically it's not like they just gave us a random bill--my mom did give the tech an earful and the latter never said that it could be a mistake.

what should we do now?


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

I'd report them to the veterinary board. If they did in fact give the shots and are LYING about it--that's inexcusable. If they didn't give the shots and yet can't keep your record straight, that's equally inexcusable. What sort of practice are they running?!?!?

My gut says they're lying and your pup did get the unapproved shots. Is there a way you can have a blood test run at _another _vet to determine (prove) this? Then you've got them in a solid lie.


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

Rowan said:


> Is there a way you can have a blood test run at _another _vet to determine (prove) this? Then you've got them in a solid lie.


we are thinking about that. would we just titer her? would it just the anti-bodies?


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

fracturedcircle said:


> we are thinking about that. would we just titer her? would it just the anti-bodies?


Yes, I would try and get a titer ASAP. I'm not entirely sure what it would show, but I suspect the antibodies would be high--the immune response (it might depend upon if it was a live or killed vaccine). Anyone else have a better idea what the blood would show?


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

As to what to do.. well.. what are you wanting? I can understand that you may be frustrated, bewildered, angry, but what are you looking for as a resolution? Whatever you think is suitable, ask for it clearly.

If Llama was vaccinated, it's a done deal, can't undo it.

At this point, I would be even more concerned because now it seems that they can't even consistently tell you what really happened with Llama. Did the vet every receive the message about the IV's? Most, but not all vets shave legs for IV's. Did Llama have any areas shaved? 

I would let the vet know that you need the lot number and expiration date off of the vaccinations given in case there is ever an adverse reaction so it can be reported. (Guess if they give them to you.. well there's a good clue that Llama probably really was vaccinated)

You may want to request a copy of the vets records from the visit, to see what it actually says on the record.

You may also want to speak directly to the vet, without the techs being involved. Occasionally, in "bad" offices, techs may do things without vet's permission.. because they know they are doing something that the vet usually requests or authorizes.

Years ago, I took a dog at high risk for seizures in for neutering. I gave the family history as well as the request that no medications which lower the seizure threshold be given to my boy. A couple weeks after neutering, my boy started seizing. First call I made was to the vet clinic and yup, they'd given him ketamine.. a medication that I specifically told them not to. The damage was done. It turns out that it was a busy day, the tech just forgot to mention it to the vet, the vet didn't know. Bad tech.. and I now have a dog with seizures. Not a thing I can do about it, except love the boy. I let the vets office know how sad I was, but beyond that couldn't do anything. It was a human mistake. In hindsight, would have been nice if I would have given written instructions.. would have made it a bit of a physical reminder for the tech to get to the vet. I'm incredibly fortunate where I live now that my vet not only allows me to be with my animals for any treatments/procedures, but she expects me to. I'm going to be totally lost when she retires.

I guess that's my best suggestion, figure out what you want from the vet and let them know. Get accurate records for Llama as best you can. I probably would only contact the vet in writing from now on, unless you are able to talk directly with the vet. 

Good luck!


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

Yadda--at this point I want them not to treat me like an idiot, get Llama's records, and an apology from the tech who was disrespectful to my mother...


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Practices at this vet sound slip-shod and I don't know that I would have confidence in anything they told you at this point. I think I would contact the vet. board and ask them to look into it and ask the board to clarify if your dog did get the vaccinations or not and about the IV. State how you were given two conflicting stories. I take it the vet did not name the disrespectful tech or apologize for him. Was Llama shaved? To me if she was that would strongly indicate she received an IV (which is good because that is what you wanted). Unfortunately other than report this to the board there is probably little you can do. How is Llama doing?


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

CT Girl--she didn't have anything shaved, so the tech lied to my mom. Llama seems to be doing well. she's super-playful... I'd be a fury and a harpy at the same time if she weren't.


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

The big picture, Llama sounds great and hopefully will never have any problems.

The vet's office can't do what you what them to do, if they don't know what it is. It might be a good idea to write them a letter telling them again, why you are unhappy/frustrated/angry and letting them know what you would like them to do.

I agree that the practices are shoddy. You have some decision making as to whether or not this is a situation that may need to be reported. I, personally, would probably want to wait until I heard directly from the vet had to say.


Years ago, I had some issues with a doctors office not responding in what I considered an appropriate manner to a severe facial nerve pain issue that dragged on into a weekend, a doctor who was unfamiliar with my history and a mouth full of cracked teeth (yup, it was one episode of several where I clenched my teeth so tightly that it resulted in stress fractures.. the pain was incapacitating). There were calls that went back and forth and finally.. a letter as suggested above. Not only did I receive several apologies from several people, but I was contacted by the office manager and a new system was set in place regarding the procedure for informing doctors of incoming phone calls. I won't ever forget the agony I was in, but the good news is... maybe the followup will keep someone else from experiencing something similar. That was the best possible outcome for my situation. Had it not worked out some people would have been reported to the state. A reprimand from the state leaves a bad feeling.. and usually doesn't solve much, I was glad that the office was willing to acknowledge the mistake and even happier that they were willing to work to make sure it didn't happen again.


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

now that I think about it, she seems *too* hyperactive and hot to touch. any ideas what the non-immediate side effects of the lepto vaccine could be?


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

here's my response:

Dr. Reece,

I have received your messages, but it is easier for me to describe the situation in writing. Yes, a simple mistaken would be somewhat understandable, although not expected from the hospital of your reputation. However, I have a hard time understanding the following: the vaccines were mentioned *at the time of the drop-off*. Consequently, my mother emphasized that Llama needed extractions and IV fluids *only*. Furthermore, at the time of the pick-up, my mother expressed to the technician very clearly that she was very upset about the unwanted vaccines and that her daughter (myself) would be extremely upset too. She was nearly crying. The technician even wrote down the names of the vaccines because I was standing outside. We stood outside for a while afterward as well. No one acted as though it was a simple bill mix-up. What’s more, the technician promptly said yes to the question as to whether Llama was given the IV, which she obviously wasn’t. That was blatant misinformation.

Once again, I would like a coherent explanation of this. I would also like Llama’s records faxed to the following address:
[...]

An apology for the technician’s lack of patience with my mother is in order as well. We have not received any refund from you yet.

Best regards,
[...]


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

no refund for the shots they claim they didn't even administer and it's been over a month. how ridiculous is this?


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

Did I miss where it would say on your bill. I would think that you would have an itemized bill as to what was given. YOU would be charged for IV fluids & for vaccinations. I know when 1 of our dogs had surgery every thing was in a list as to what was given & what the charge was. It would b really easy to either confirm or deny what they are saying by producing the bill.

Having 2 different stories is just plain wrong. I do know though that my friend works as a vet tech & she saw a worm larvae but didn't know which variety since she could only find 1. She found the vet asked for his diagnosis. The vet couldn't find anything on the slide even though it was there. He cleared the dog of any internal parasites. My friend found the larvae once again & showed the the larvae to the vet. Then he tried to blame her & told her she would have to call the clients to let them know their dog had worm larvae. She was livid & refused. So, even Vets can be unethical.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Have they given you an itemized bill? Excellent point 3dogs. Has it been a month yet when they said they have not given the vaccine or a month since the procedure? The refund is hopefully in the works but I can understand your frustration especially as your moth er has not received an apology yet.


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

yeah, the vaccines are on the bill. definitely no apology of any kind yet.


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

how much time should I give them before going further with this?


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Have they at least given you a refund yet?


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## lilypoo (Jul 25, 2011)

Were you charged for the IV and fluids as well?

At this point I wouldn't give them any more time. I would visit the office in person and state that you're there for your refund. Might be a good idea to call and find out when the office manager is in, so that they can't tell you no one is there who can help you. 

Is it possible they have a policy that any pet being admitted for surgery has to have those vaccines? I've been to vet's offices that do that and will vaccinate as soon as they receive the pet. It's similar to a boarding policy.


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

we got a refund and a written apology! but not before a dear friend called them for me (I get very anxious on the phone and my accent becomes even worse because of that).

P.S. Mama2Four--love your siggy pic!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I am so glad that you finally received an apology and a refund. Thank you for the update.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_That is really sad FC. Seems like it is really hard to find ethical people in just about any thing now. I'm so sorry to hear that you and your mom had to go through this. I do hope that Llama will be fine.

I would say that it was commendable that the vet finally sent an apology and refund to you, but, considering what you had to go through to get it, it really isn't. He should have come forth right away and told you the truth and worked with you toward a satisfactory ending. They basically had to be bullied into an apology and I find that unacceptable. 

I do hope that you will be reconsidering where you bring Llame in the future since you cannot trust these people anymore._


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