# Toy vs Miniature



## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

spotsonofbun said:


> Hi im new and my dog background is explained in 'no poodle yet just gathering information' in members introduction.
> 
> I have never had a poodle but I am researching dogs now for when I get one in 2 to 3 years. Right now I live in student housing where pets are not allowed.
> 
> ...


1. Depends on the bloodline and individual. I would personally go thru a show breeder if their dogs are being worked as well in agility, obedience, etc all the better. Make sure they do the minimum genetic testing on their breeding stock. A breeder will know their own line and should help pick the right personality for you. Generally they are very energetic, athletic, and agile dogs regardless of size. My two girls can Veg out when I do and are willing to go on a hiking, fishing, and camping trip just as easily

2. Yes extremely intelligent. I can teach my mini a agility obstacle in 3x with the third she gives me that look like uh is that all? My toy uses her intelligence to outsmart you and get what she wants. Particularly my toy altho the mini occasionally really likes to juggle around in her mind if she Really wants to do the command. Toys are lil Napoleons that love to be in your lap and Love to manipulate their humans. Both sizes should be treated like dogs first as some spoiled dogs become the stereotypical aggressive, yappy, and or neurotic lil dogs.

3. Either would do fine in an apt. Both dogs need exercise and mental stimulation to have a happy poodle. My mini can go and go and still have leftover energy lol. My toy used to be like that but has slowed down a bit. Both love to play.

4. Even if you obtain your poodle from a show breeder, etc. always ask to see genetic testing results on the sire and dam. Don't just take their word on it or assume that they will tell you everything you need to know about health issues in poodles. Learn the minimal genetic tests recommended for the variety and make sure the breeder test for it.


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## spotsonofbun (Jan 3, 2013)

I had a Border collie/ lab mix that literally no exercise or mental stimulation could calm down. It took two days of constant off leash running and play on a friend's farm to make him tired. Is a poodle like that?

would a small poodle (toy or miniature) be happy with a 1hr to 2 hr on leash walk and then some indoor play and training per day?


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

I'm sure there are exceptions but generally that should be plenty of exercise. I have heard of some minis are totally crazy from some bloodlines. I know there is this one toy poodle that was all over the place and whined/ barked and panted like crazy when her owner or anyone wasnt holding her. Now her owner is older and Really spoils her. I think I someone else's hand I'm sure she would be a lot different. My girls have an off on button lol. They are ready for anything anytime as long as they can come, but when I want to relax they are happy to lay with me or if I direct them lay in their bed. They do well with direction lol, when the In- laws are over they don't tend to listen as well. Kinda like grandma and grandpa come over lol. If you go with a show breeder, meet the parents, and Ask the breeder for a dog with lower or medium energy they should be able to pick out the right pup for you


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

My big mini needed 60-90 mins off leash play with other dogs plus one or two 20-minute on-leash walk when he was a puppy. Once he turned one, he has calmed down a lot. Now he's happy with a one-hour on-leash walk and a 20-minute frisbee time per day. During the rainy season, he's okay to stay indoor for one or two days.

My mini is very intelligent. He observes and he solves problems. He's happy living in an apartment and he's trained to use the Potty Park located on the balcony.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

spotsonofbun said:


> Hi im new and my dog background is explained in 'no poodle yet just gathering information' in members introduction.
> 
> I have never had a poodle but I am researching dogs now for when I get one in 2 to 3 years. Right now I live in student housing where pets are not allowed.
> 
> ...


 1: as others pointed out it depends on the breeding. However, mine are turning out to be very similar. Raven is 9 mo, and Trevor was pretty close to his craziness at 9 mo. Although both have a decent "off" button....if I put Raven in his crate and Trev in my room, they settle in for naps. 

2: absolutely! Raven can outsmart just about any dog if tested. He is one bright little boy...Teaching him is a breeze. Trev is smart too, but in a different way...he analyzes things as well as learns quickly. So if I say "come inside" whereas Raven will because he learned it well, Trev will sit a few feet from the door and stare at me, just to see if I will offer him a better option, such as a treat or another game. Not sure which type is smarter, but both are pretty intelligent. I can tell you which one is easier to deal with and that is Raven's type! Once he learns it, be pretty much always does it. He doesn't think about things too much. 

3: either one....both are a nice size. A toy can be more easily exercised indoors though....I often play fetch down the hall in my house with Raven and he gets worn out within a reasonable time. It's a bit harder with Trev.

4: how much thinking poodles do. I knew they were intelligent, but no one told me that they think! Everything is processed....Trev never stops watching, analyzing, observing. Nothing gets by him....if I watch him and he is awake, his eyes are moving back and forth across the room. Raven is the same....always watching, ready to jump up and take a closer look. ( which can be annoying when you are wrapping his ears lol!) This can be a very good thing, but it also gets them into trouble. Especially Trev, as I mentioned before. He questions and pushes me a lot....always weighing his options. Raven doesn't do that so much....but he is better at say puzzle toys and opening things. Go figure....

As far as exercise, mine rarely get more than an hour...right now with the weather being cold and/or rainy, they get even less than normal. So far so good. They play a lot with each other though, and I take them to work everyday, so they get a lot of mental stimulation there. Normally though, we spend about 30-45 mins walking or at the dog park running and then I may or may not train them some. Usually I spend some time playing fetch with each individual though. Both seem happy with that arrangement.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I have a large toy - around 11 inches/9 pounds. She is robust enough to run with bigger dogs, but small enough to curl up on my lap. She is not a high energy dog - 1.5 - 2 hours of off leash exercise keeps her relaxed and happy in the house. In fact it seems to be a pattern with poodles, that they run and play very enthusiastically outside, and are relaxed and laid back inside (provided they have enough physical and mental exercise, of course!). Poppy is very easy to train - she makes me look like a brilliant trainer, and I don't think it is entirely conicidental that my agility instructor has acquired two small poodles since Poppy took the class! Sophy, my papillon, was very different - she loved the A frame and dog walk and learned those very quickly, but jumping and weaving were simply not going to happen. Not even for chicken, and that is really saying something! Most poodles I have known are very quick to learn - so be aware of what you might be teaching them inadvertently...


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## spotsonofbun (Jan 3, 2013)

fjm I am considering papillon too and I have to say that the markings on your papillon and the colour of your poodle are gorgeous!

its really nice to hear someone who can actually compare those two breeds from personal experience. I am a bit scared to get a dog with no off switch like my old dog however my favourite thing to do with my old dog was to play and walk him and take him places where he could run off leash. So i don't want a very lazy dog like a pug. I think perhaps a low energy to mid energy on the poodle spectrum might be a good fit. 

ladyscarletthawk if i rescue and therefore don't know the bloodline is there any obvious signs that i should look out for when I meet the dog for the first time?

Also if I do rescue or get an older dog I do expect it to have some issues, what behavioural problems are in your experience the worst to fix in poodles?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think the main physical issues I would be looking for in a rescue would be poor conformation that might affect pleasure in exercise, PRA, and luxating patellas. On the temperament front, in the UK at least, the issues tend to be those that affect many small dogs that have been over protected, over indulged, and undersocialised - or dogs are from breeding farms and have everything to learn. But there are wonderful poodles awaiting homes in rescue - just look at Skye's early posts!


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## spotsonofbun (Jan 3, 2013)

fjm said:


> I think the main physical issues I would be looking for in a rescue would be poor conformation that might affect pleasure in exercise, PRA, and luxating patellas. On the temperament front, in the UK at least, the issues tend to be those that affect many small dogs that have been over protected, over indulged, and undersocialised - or dogs are from breeding farms and have everything to learn. But there are wonderful poodles awaiting homes in rescue - just look at Skye's early posts!


Im in England  
yeah the overprotected small dogs with 'small dog syndrom' is sort of what I am expecting because I would assume that is the main reason that small dogs end in rescues and shelters. The smallest dog I have ever had was about the size of a border collie and the biggest was a St Bernard. 

Are there any good books based on Positive reinforcement on how to deal with small dog syndrom or even just on how to rehabilitate fearful adult dogs?

How do I socialise a small dog with big dog while at the same time making sure its safe?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

To be honest, the number of poodles and papillons that end up in general rescue in the UK is miniscule, and there are waiting lists for the breed rescues, although it is always worth enquiring!

I've yet to find a really good book on raising small breed puppies - most just seem to have general dog rearing advice, a page or two specifically relevant to small dogs, and a large section on buying haute couture clothing and diamante collars. I think it is a bit of a tight rope, but if you know of any big dogs that are calm, well socialised and can be relied on to self handicap around a small puppy, you are half way there! I was very lucky to have two lovely Spinones locally, who were immensely kind with mine when they were pups, and taught them lots about dog body language and etiquette. I think if you can find a breeder who keeps the pups with their Mum and litter until they are at least 10 weeks old while also really working on socialising the pups with people and other dogs that is the ideal - small breed pups in particular seem to really benefit from the extra time with Mum and siblings. Then it is a matter of constantly remembering they are dogs, while also trying to ensure they only have positive, happy experiences of the world! Making a safe place between my feet, and resisting the temptation to sweep them up into my arms, helped, but you do need to get very good at reading dog body language very quickly!

Whereabouts are you in England? You are very welcome to come and meet my two if it would help you with your research. We are in North Lancashire.

Good advice on rehabilitating fearful dogs at Fearfuldogs' Blog - and her books have been highly recommended too.


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## Specman (Jun 14, 2012)

My mini is very energetic he can play at the dog park for 90 minutes and recover on the way home and be ready to go again. He is just a year old so I'm hoping that factors into it. 

Everyone commented on how smart poodles are when I told people that I was getting one and I have to say that I am still surprised by by their intelligence!


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## spotsonofbun (Jan 3, 2013)

fjm said:


> To be honest, the number of poodles and papillons that end up in general rescue in the UK is miniscule, and there are waiting lists for the breed rescues, although it is always worth enquiring!
> 
> I've yet to find a really good book on raising small breed puppies - most just seem to have general dog rearing advice, a page or two specifically relevant to small dogs, and a large section on buying haute couture clothing and diamante collars. I think it is a bit of a tight rope, but if you know of any big dogs that are calm, well socialised and can be relied on to self handicap around a small puppy, you are half way there! I was very lucky to have two lovely Spinones locally, who were immensely kind with mine when they were pups, and taught them lots about dog body language and etiquette. I think if you can find a breeder who keeps the pups with their Mum and litter until they are at least 10 weeks old while also really working on socialising the pups with people and other dogs that is the ideal - small breed pups in particular seem to really benefit from the extra time with Mum and siblings. Then it is a matter of constantly remembering they are dogs, while also trying to ensure they only have positive, happy experiences of the world! Making a safe place between my feet, and resisting the temptation to sweep them up into my arms, helped, but you do need to get very good at reading dog body language very quickly!
> 
> ...


The papillons and poodles are actually one of the more common breeds Im looking at, the list is very long but they are very high on it. But what I have seen online of the small dogs its mostly Jack Russels. They are not on my list. I am also open to mixes as long it is the right mix and a rescue or a rehome on a reasonable price, im not going to pay a fortune for a 'designer dog' i.e. mutt with a fancy name. I am aware that rescuing might be a long shot but I will also include in my correspondence with breeders that I would be open to getting an older dog looking for a home if they know any if that fails I will simply get a puppy 

I am just a bit scared that the puppy will end up as the most badly behaved dog that ever lived and I will have no one to blame but me  

I used to be quite good with dog body language but I have gotten a bit rusty since my old dog was rehomed when I moved to England from Iceland. I am thinking of volunteering so I can re-socialise myself with dogs and remember my doggie manners  Also I would like to learn first hand how to deal with behavioural issues especially if I get a doggie einstein like a poodle. I remember with my border collie mix how quickly the geniuses learn bad habits. 

I have a lot of questions about health tests and grooming (only had labs and lab mixes) But I am going to leave those for another thread. 

Also I think I would like a Toy poodle instead of miniature. 

I would love to meet you and your dogs but I am in Kent


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Ummmm - Kent is rather a long way!

Health tests are rather more basic in the UK than the US. There are genetic tests for PRA, which are highly recommended by the KC, and I would want to see evidence of vet checks for knees, although there is not central register for checks in the UK as far as I am aware. You are unlikely to see testing for VWD etc.

As a very general rule anyone who is breeding at all seriously will KC register their pups - any other register (DLR etc) is essentially a con - they will register kittens, pigs or anything as pedigree dogs if the fees are paid! KC registration - or even Approved breeder status - does not mean a great deal, unfortunately, but it is at least a starting point.

It is well worth learning to do grooming yourself, if you have the time to spare. You can pick up adequate kit for£200-400 on eBay, recoup the costs in 18 - 24 months, and save a great deal of money over a poodle lifetime. Poodles need clipping every 6 - 8 weeks, and a clip for a toy will be £20 - 30 or more, even if you have kept your dog well brushed out in between professional grooms.


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## spotsonofbun (Jan 3, 2013)

Yeah it scared me a bit when I was doing research into poodles there was a very long list of genetic diseases like addisons but there were very few tests required by the assured breeder scheme by the Kennel club. 

I would never pay for a purebred unless it was registered by the Kennel Club.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

spotsonofbun said:


> ladyscarletthawk if i rescue and therefore don't know the bloodline is there any obvious signs that i should look out for when I meet the dog for the first time?
> 
> Also if I do rescue or get an older dog I do expect it to have some issues, what behavioural problems are in your experience the worst to fix in poodles?


For me at least the worst behavior issues to fix would be anxious, shy, separation anxiety. Certain forms of aggression would be easier, but a good rescue should not adopt out aggressive dogs. They are a liability, and there are too many nice dogs dying everyday. 
Not every dog in rescue is abused or had a bad life. I would recommend reading the dog listener as there is a lot of info that could be helpful to you.
Many rescues will help you choose the right dog for you and your life style. Altho I heard years ago that rescue poodles in the UK are hard to come by



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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

Potsie is a small miniature (about 12 in./ 12.5 lb.), and to me, he's the perfect size for cuddling, yet he's sturdier than a toy. We adopted him from a rescue at age 2, and he's now 4. He had an unusual rescue story - severe neglect and abuse, so he's much more reserved than a normal poodle. Most are happy-go-lucky types! 

Keep in mind that most rescues haven't endured the severe abuse that Potsie did - perhaps their owners just couldn't afford to keep them anymore (job loss, moving, etc.) - that happens a lot nowadays. I heartily recommend adopting an adult (ages 2-3). They tend to be calmer than a puppy. Just be sure to adopt from a good rescue, preferably a poodle rescue, that temperament tests their dogs, as well as completely vets them (spay/neuter, shots, heartworm test). Ask about luxating patellas - that's a common issue in the smaller poodles. They can match the right dog to your lifestyle.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I don't know how you feel about terriers, and he may be just a bit too high energy, but there is a rather cute poodle/border terrier cross on Dogsblog at the moment: Archie – 1 year old male Poodle cross Border Terrier dog for adoption


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## spotsonofbun (Jan 3, 2013)

fjm said:


> I don't know how you feel about terriers, and he may be just a bit too high energy, but there is a rather cute poodle/border terrier cross on Dogsblog at the moment: Archie – 1 year old male Poodle cross Border Terrier dog for adoption


Oh my god he is so cute but I am in student housing at the moment so I can't :bawling:

I am doing my research now when I can't because if I did when I could get a dog immediately I would take the first fluffy one with sad eyes. Also I want to have a little doggie fund before I get a dog so I can buy it proper food. I have dealt with the consequence of getting a dog that didn't fit our lifestyle before out of impulse. We held on to him but it was difficult. 

so more or less this is the list of breeds I am considering I haven't gone into detail research into everyone yet I am just slowly working myself through them. 

Chinese crested 
yorkshire terrier 
australian silky terrier 
italian greyhound
small poodle 
havanese 
coton de tulear 
bichon frise 
maltese 
lowchen 
papillon 
bolognese 

Majority are not that common in the UK that might be an issue. The poodle is a favourite at the moment.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Very sensible! I know the woman who runs UK Papillon Rescue, and Bichon rescue is just a few miles down the road from me. Ex-breeding bichons and bichon crosses seem to appear on dogsblog.com quite regularly. I LOVE Iggies, but decided against one because the shared grounds around my house are not secure, and we are surrounded by fields full of rabbits - not a good combination for a sight hound...


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I think you have a great list going. Now to narrow down the wants. What is the purpose of your dog? Companion, obedience, agility, conformation, therapy etc... Once you narrow that down you can narrow the list. The Coton has the worst coat ever to groom. I have poodles, Chinese crested, pom x yorkie as small dogs. My Crested was my 1 st venture into small dogs. She is a great companion but didn't work out in the Obedience ring due to a soft temper. She could feel me tense up or a slight rise in voice & she would begin to shut down. My 2nd Crested from the same breeder was a disappointment, he was bitey, shy,& a bit on the stupid side. No more Cresteds for me & what I have seen in the ring I am glad I changed breeds. The all did obtain their CGC but that was it. My pom x yorkie was out of rescue & a great running partner he had 2 years of extreme separation anxiety & a barker. Now I have Poodles in all 3 sizes & I won't have any other breed.


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## spotsonofbun (Jan 3, 2013)

I haven't decided yet. All I know is that I don't want a big working dog  Loved my labs but not the dogs that I want to be responsible for on my own. 

I haven't decided between the little shy but loyal to one person couch potato cuddly sweety that doesn't really like long walks. 

or the super intelligent hyper dog like the poodle that will always keep me on my toes and will challenge my dog abilities and training knowledge. The one where I can see the wheels turning in its head when I look in its eyes. That will need its daily exercise. Like my former best friend Spot son of Bun the border collie/lab mix. 

Or even the tenacious and stubborn terrier that will think about it for a while before obeying a command. But will always be a lively character to live with and brighten my day with their love of life. 

I would like to try agility but I wouldn't be devastated if my dog wasn't good at it. It would mainly be a companion, it would be my companion so I wouldn't mind a dog that isn't great with a family. The sort that really bonds with one person. 

My greatest issue is that I haven't had first hand interaction with most if these breeds i really want to meet a breed before I get it. I did spend sometime with an Australian Silky Terrier during the holiday and he was a delight. He was high energy but not annoying as I expected a terrier to be. He brightened the room with his happiness and friendliness.


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## Panda (Jan 7, 2010)

I would say you could come meet us as we are only about an hour from Kent however Panda is not exactly the best example of the breed and might put you off Poodles lol! I am actually going to Kent to compete in flyball on the 20th too!


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Here in the states the all breed kennel clubs have meet the breeds. You can also contact the local breed clubs and see if you can visit breeders and get a feel for their breed and honest fist hand opinion. 


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think you sound a perfect candidate for rescuing a dog - experienced, no fixed ideas as to breed or sex, no overwhelming expectations as to capabilities, prepared to put the work into building a relationship with a dog ... so my advice would be to continue making the time pass with research, and as soon as you are able get to know your local rescues. If you have time volunteer to do some dog walking, perhaps, or sitting with dogs in need of company. You will have the advantage of the rescue's experience with evaluating dogs, get to spend time with possible matches, and sooner or later meet the perfect dog for you. (My guess would be within about 30 minutes of settling in suitable accommodation...!)

One thing I would say is to look to the future. Life is tough and uncertain at the moment. If you are likely to be in shared housing, or needing to fall back on family or friends in the coming years it is not just your decision - they need to be prepared to welcome your dog as well. Perhaps another reason for choosing a small, non-shedding, cheerful character?


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## spotsonofbun (Jan 3, 2013)

Im thinking of volunteering with the cinnamon trust that helps elderly people to keep their pets. So I would walk their dogs and so on and If I am in suitable accommodation later foster if the owners end up in hospital. I do have experience but Im a little rusty I need to re-socialise myself with dogs because I did distance myself after Spot was rehomed when mom decided to move to the UK. He was my best friend. 

However I am also going to look for shelters near me to volunteer at one that preferably dedicates a lot of time into rehabilitation. I really want to learn how to do that. I do feel it would be unfair for me to get a puppy from a breeder. I have nothing against breeders I want to become one one day, but I am in a position where I don't have children around me or other pets (except a bearded dragon but he would be kept separate from the dog anyway) so like you said I am in a very good position to rescue. 

and yes I am terrified of the uncertainty of life I am not rehoming again its too painful. Thats why have chosen small breeds easier to find accommodation and a bit cheaper if I have to budget and people are more likely to be willing to dogsit a pretty little poodle than a smelly labrador. depending on whether I managed to get it to behave of course  

I think getting the dog in my final year in university would be best. It gives me time to save and volunteer and research training and rehabilitation and because of how my degree is structured I will be home most of time. That will give me time to crate train and socialise so I wont have to worry about the dog at home when I start working or I can be confident to send it to doggy day care.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Cinnamon Trust and other volunteering sounds like an excellent plan. Not quite so sure about getting a dog before you graduate, though - my university years are long behind me, but as I recall it took very little to distract me from working for finals, and needing to play with/walk/groom/train/feed the dog would have been the perfect excuse! Perhaps it would be wiser to wait until you have found a job and accommodation, and know the demands in terms of time, travel and pet deposits before falling in love ...


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

I've had two of the breeds on your list. When me and my husband first got married we got a yorkshire terrier. Unfortunately we really jumped into and drove several hours to buy from a bad breeder. I think when we arrived I knew it wasn't the best breeder to buy from but when we saw the puppies we were lost. At around a year we found out that she had a liver disease (the vet said it was the kind you couldn't operate on) and we made the best of the time we had with her. She was the best, most stubborn, fun, very determind most loved dog. Not raised with kids she would bark at them and try to bite if pushed. Loved to bark when the door bell rang (and wouldn't stop when you asked). She was a big tough dog in a small package. We lost her to the liver disease at the age 8 when we forgot to clean off the table and she got on it (couldn't have protein). It was a horriable time.

The Chinese Crested was from a show breeder and was as cute as a chinese crested could be. We feel in love with her when we saw her at 6months old when she was playing with her siblings. She was fast, fun, but later as we found out as stupid as stuid gets. She turned out to be very timid once away from her pack and then attached to my Yorki. She would follow right behind my feet but if I moved to quick in the other direction she would scream bloody murder (no we never stepped or kicked her). Never really attached to much to us though she would cuddle in our laps (she liked a warm lap). I think she felt lost when Shelby the yorkie past and got more timid without her leader. Will never ever buy a chinese crested again no matter how cute. 

Then we got a 3yr old lab off of craigslist. That dog shed all over the house and hair was everywhere. All over the my youngest face, in the food ..it was gross. Loved the dog but couldn't keep the hair problem and placed her with a rescue. She was adopted right into a home that was waiting for a lab that was great with kids.

When we looked at dogs we were between poodles or papillons. One day we will have a Yorkshire Terrier again but when the kids our grown up and if we don't have a farm. A yorkie would run away because of all the things to chase. We choose a mini poodle because of the size. Medium so it wouldn't break from the kids. Sandy has turned out great. She goes outside without a fence with me and goes to the barn and stays near (though has a small fenced area when we aren't watching). She's mouthier than our other dogs and we are still working on that. So far she's got along with every dog that has been introduced to her. She is a bigger mini and I love her size. I've been floating around the idea of another poodle but I'm not sure we are ready yet. If do get a poodle bewarned you really have to keep up with the grooming or you will have a mess. It's worth it though :0). 

Anyways that's the story of our dog life lol. Hope it helps.


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## Travis (Sep 10, 2012)

I think you asked some good questions and owning only two poodles, I'll give you my input! I have spent a lot of time around other peoples poodles. I think all sizes of poodles are intelligent. My standard was super smart, smarter than many humans I know. She would steal food and try to hide the evidence outside by carrying the wrappers out of the house, she would open doors and when I had the knobs on the inside changed she immediately started letting herself in from the outside just to show she could still open the doors. She was very smart. I now have a mini poodle and she is only 13 weeks old. She may be even smarter! She learned to sit in around two minutes and down in less than 5 minutes. She learned her name in around 24 hours and knows what comes means, although she sometimes chooses not to listen. I think a big difference in sizes is the energy level, and of course that does not hold true for all dogs. I think the miniatures have a huge degree of stamina where my standard was a race horse--she would run the race, rest a bit and then run again. A lot of the miniatures I see are go go go go go go. My breeder had toys too, and I DID NOT want a toy but I left her house WANTING ONE! I have really loved my puppy stage so far but Josie is growing out of her carrier very quickly and I have loved taking her everywhere with me...on beach walks, to the store, etc...that is the big perk of having a toy poodle. They toys I met were amazingly sweet, althletic and smart. I went with the miniature because the breeder thought for my activity level it would be best and while I still considered a toy I did not want to worry about sitting on it or stepping on it while underfoot or with small children who could accidentally hurt it. I am pretty confident that I will have a toy one day as the ones I fell in love with were the funniest acrobats and loved sitting on laps. I think with a toy, breeding is very important as often people have mentioned poor teeth or thin bones that break when they jump off something that is too high. My breeders philosophy for a Toy Poodle is that if they can get up on something then they need to be able to get down on their own without hurting themselves. If they do hurt themselves then they are too fragile and should not be bred. I don't think you can go wrong with any size and there are occasions where you will wish you had one of each size!!! My standard was great to grab onto and she was wonderful with kids and you didn't have to worry about her getting hurt or hurting them. I think either toy or miniature is good for apartment living. My mom is visiting and we are renting a beach condo and Josie has learned to go out to the balcony on the potty grass very quickly. She actually does better there than at the house! I got her a product called Fresh Patch and she loves it (sometimes too much as she will eat it!) which is a fresh patch of grass. After this experience I think a poodle in an apartment is fine as long as they get daily walks. Josie is just a puppy, but has super high energy and after a walk on the beach she just relaxes on the balcony for a few hours before attacking my toes with her teeth. Good luck in your research!


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## Rhett'smom (Sep 23, 2012)

Having had a toy poodle (Jip) who was the king of "you will pet me" and the art of "I will get what I want no matter what" . He was very smart and knew when to"play dumb" . Rhett is a spoo. He is very smart... Figured out how to open his crate and other antics. No matter whichever one you bring home it will be an adventure full of love and laughter. Just have fun keeping 2 steps ahead of your poodle









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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

3dogs said:


> I think you have a great list going. Now to narrow down the wants. What is the purpose of your dog? Companion, obedience, agility, conformation, therapy etc... Once you narrow that down you can narrow the list. The Coton has the worst coat ever to groom. I have poodles, Chinese crested, pom x yorkie as small dogs. My Crested was my 1 st venture into small dogs. She is a great companion but didn't work out in the Obedience ring due to a soft temper. She could feel me tense up or a slight rise in voice & she would begin to shut down. My 2nd Crested from the same breeder was a disappointment, he was bitey, shy,& a bit on the stupid side. No more Cresteds for me & what I have seen in the ring I am glad I changed breeds. The all did obtain their CGC but that was it. My pom x yorkie was out of rescue & a great running partner he had 2 years of extreme separation anxiety & a barker. Now I have Poodles in all 3 sizes & I won't have any other breed.


I have a hairy hairless chinese crested and he is very smart, did very well in obedience training, the only problem I had with him was pottie training. I got him from a great breeder in California were is sire at one time was one of the top chinese crested, do you think it might have been the breeder. Ole is now 9 years old and still going strong.


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