# Why are Goldendoodle owners not nice?



## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

I have what you call a Poodle mixed with a Golden Retriever or Goldendoodle. I love my dog but my experience with the typical owner is starting to affect my relationship with my dog. You see my fiance picked out the breed for me as a service dog. I did want a purebred or any rescue dog. I live in a very dog-friendly neighborhood and Poodles owners are always nice, and so are Golden owners. Unfortunately, Goldendoodle owners are very standoffish, judgmental, and rude. Most of them freak out if their dog shed, how big their dog is gonna get, poor behavioral problems (mouthing, jumping, etc). It is almost like none of them have ever had a dog before. I had a similar experience on a doodle forum which is why I moved here. That forum didn't particularly have much respect for poodles or goldens...which I found kinda odd. Everyone here on poodle forum is a lot nicer and way more mellow. I wonder if this is just particular to Goldendoodles? Does anyone else have this experience?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

The only Goldendoodle owner I have met recently was a very nice girl with an absolutely gorgeous 8 week old pup she was carrying around to socialise - he was also hairy and enormous, but quite irresistable! I wonder if the people you meet are on the defensive, having bought into the designer dog story and finding reality is somewhat different to the "perfect dog" they anticipated? I think many people are unprepared for what very hard work a puppy or adolescent dog can be, especially a large one - perhaps many of them were struggling to cope and unable to admit it. 

On here we accept that poodles are not always easy, that they can have very different temperaments, even - perish the thought! - that they may not be the right dog for everyone. We love poodles, but most of us love other dogs too, and want them, and their owners, to have the happiest lives possible. There again, if someone came on claiming that their Something-doodles were the best dogs ever and that everyone should instantly stop breeding poodles and breed only their particular cross I suspect that you would see some very considerable fireworks. Every forum has its blue touch paper topics!


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Sadly in Australia as elsewhere groodles and labradoodles are becoming popular. BYBs tout them as the perfect dog. Non shedding and having the best points of both breeds. Also sadly the puppies often disappoint their owners. The promises they were given by unscrupulous breeders are rarely realized. Some are truly sweet. Most of them shed and like all three breeds puppy-hood is a long tough ride with a large boisterous dog that can last three years for some. Though I'm sure occasionally a puppy might inherit the best of both breeds, they can also take the worst too. My vet assures me that labradoodles and groodles often have early signs of hip displaysia and are prone to teeth problems too. People who have paid a lot of cash for the promise of a special dog who turns out a disappointment can be very defensive of their choice. It just another form of denial. The dogs however are often, if properly trained, sweet animals and easy to love. I find other dogs much easier, independent of breed, to get along with than their owners. The kind of person who looks for something different and falls for sales hype can be a difficult person for some.
Eric.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I agree with fjm and Eric that many of those owners are probably defensive because they may feel either overwhelmed by a large unruly and disappointing puppy that sheds when it wasn't supposed to along with other issues. In my experience I have yet to meet a nice, friendly golden doodle and I think this is about the people believing that the GR part of their dog will mean it will be nice and not doing great socialization work. A person whose doodle sheds and chose a doodle because they wanted a non shedding dog probably resents the mess the dog leaves all over. Doodles are more likely to be bred from less than stellar lines of both parent breeds since really great breeders who are involved deeply in dog sport, health testing and improving the breed would never knowingly sell to someone who wanted a pup for breeding mixes. Therefore they may be coping with bad hips, poor temperaments and myriad other problems. 

OP I know your dog is a mix and I am not predicting bad issues for you. In fact I hope you find this pup to be a fabulous companion and helper. You seem to be very realistic and open. I wish you the best, but think that the points we have raised account for buyer's remorse masquerading as defensiveness of the dog they got that doesn't meet the expectations they had. I am sure that fjm, Eric and I all would be pilloried if we said any of these things on a doodle forum. We love all dogs, hope that everyone has a dog that is a great dog for their wants and needs and will never bash your dog although we will lament that greeders and BYBs perpetuate the myths of what they are producing.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I think fjm, Eric and Lily said it all, and well ! I 100% agree with everything that was said.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I agree that the Designer Dog Syndrome could be the reason.

I know several people with Goldendoodles who are wonderful owners, the dogs are well socialized and adorable. I don't have much experience, but my daughter has one across the street that spends a lot of time with her rough collie - they are best buddies. She's goofy and friendly and cute as all get out, but she doesn't learn as quickly as her collie or my poodle so it means more time and patience in training. The owner takes his Goldendoodle to work so she socializes with his customers and my daughter takes her along with her dog to the dog park regularly so she is socialized with other dogs.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

I have met lots of golden doodle owners, and every single one of them has been lovely. Most of them are very happy with their dogs.


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## WinnieJane (May 6, 2016)

It seems like every other dog in my family neighborhood is a doodle, so I've met a lot of them. The owners are just as likely to be nice as anyone else in town, and I've found the dogs to be very friendly with people and thrilled to meet our pup.

I have heard a doodle owner express disappointment that her "non-shedding" dog sheds.That's why we decided on a poodle. She still adores her boy, though.

Doodles are trendy and are perceived as the "perfect dog." That reputation may draw in people who might not otherwise have even considered a dog. Then they are shocked by the reality!


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

The one thing that struck me when I read your post was when you said "I love my dog but my experience with the typical owner is starting to effect my relationship with my dog". No matter what others say or do, it shouldn't effect how you feel or respond to your very sweet pup.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Caddy said:


> The one thing that struck me when I read your post was when you said "I love my dog but my experience with the typical owner is starting to effect my relationship with my dog". No matter what others say or do, it shouldn't effect how you feel or respond to your very sweet pup.


You are correct. Thanks for noting the detail. I got Lucky not long after my 16 year old rescue passed away. I'm having difficulty bonding with him emotionally. Then all the doodle backlash. Lucky is quite different because he is training to be my service dog. He passed his CGC the day he hit 6 month old. I just got it in the mail YAY! We are working on advanced targeting. He notifies me when the doorbell rings. So far he just touches but doesn't bring me to the door yet. He doesn't learn as fast as my pug, who is very food motivated, but he is very consistent after he gets something. For example: after I taught him target, he does it all day to get food. He also knows to sit before traffic and how to close cabinet doors. My service dog trainer said I really lucked out with Lucky. He is calm, well behaved, and very intelligent. And he is only 6 months 1 week old! It is my failings that I'm letting other people cloud my judgment of him.


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## Sammy the spoo (Jul 7, 2016)

Oh wow, Lucky is a super pup!!! Passed CGC on his half birthday? I cannot dream of taking Sammy yet . I think he'll fail miserablely in most of the test criteria because he will be way too happy to see and wiggle at everyone. Awesome job on your training!!!

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## WinnieJane (May 6, 2016)

snow0160 said:


> He passed his CGC the day he hit 6 month old. I just got it in the mail YAY!


Wow! I cannot imagine my girl passing the CGC three months from now. Congratulations!


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## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

peppersb said:


> I have met lots of golden doodle owners, and every single one of them has been lovely. Most of them are very happy with their dogs.


Yes, I TOTALLY agree with this statement. And me being one of those golden doodle owners........


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

*Thank you!*

Thank you guys for the nice wishes about the CGC. We had to temperament test him out of a litter and he was the calmest and was not afraid. We did the clipboard test at the breeder. He was also the only one that didn't jump on me at all. I'm glad to say he still does not jump at all. He is smart but gets bored very easily....I keep having to give him puzzle toys to keep him occupied. His favorite toy is the Nina Ottoson wood block. He loves turning the wood so it aligns and gets the treat out. hehe. I do clicker training with him about 15 min intervals about 4 times a day since I got him at 4 months old.


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## jansandra1 (Sep 22, 2016)

Hi,

I have a gorgeous doodle girl aged 16 months, who is happy, loving and obedient. She does jump about, and runs really fast when out, but this is how doodles are, lively and athletic. When I had an operation on my foot, I cried out a bit one night in pain with it. Sindy came running over to me, then jumped on the bed and rested her head on me for the rest of the night. I don't know any other goldendoodle owners, but a few cockapoo owners, and they are all lovely. Goldendoodles in the UK are not a common breed, unlike the cockapoo.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

You know, it's kind of been a mixed bag when I met doodle owners! Also, I strongly prefer goldendoodles to labradoodles because goldens are much calmer and more in tune with people IMHO.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think it can sometimes be difficult to bond with a new pup when you have recently lost a beloved older dog, no matter what the breed. There is the fear of being disloyal to the memory of the friend that is gone; the puppy inevitably has everything to learn, and you are used to a dog that has years of experience of living with you and that knows the rules of the house; building a relationship takes time and energy and you may still be worn out by grief. It does sound as if you have a very special puppy there, though - perhaps it is time to forget about breeds, breed prejudice, and everything else and just look into each others' eyes and souls.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

My 16 year old was the first and only dog I've ever put to sleep. Does it get easier? 

I just saw your Milan Kundera quote. He is my favorite writer!!! I took a lot of political philosophy classes in college. I also saw you are from the UK. I worked in London and worked for an MP in Westminster a few years back and it was my favorite city on earth. I would love to move there pending on how the next presidential election turns out. Sorry off topic. I'm always comparing the Goldendoodle to my rescue and he never measures up and I know a lot of it is being biased but the sanctimonious doodle forum does not help. My old dog died from osteosarcoma and I begged and begged my fiance to let me get a Maremma but he said it is unfair if we move to the city and they don't do so well if they didn't grow up with kids. I go on youtube every day looking at Maremma videos and I look through her old pictures and videos and cry. She died July 27 2016. I know I got a new dog too soon but I was hoping he would help with my grief. Now it feels like I'm cheating on him.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think you need to be kind to him, and to yourself. Loving him takes nothing away from your Maremma - love is not a finite quantity to be rationed, but expands to embrace more people and more animals if we let it. Think of your new puppy as a gift that your she helped to bring to you - everything she taught you about how to love and raise and train a dog will be part of your lives together. Remember her with gratitude when she helps you to get it right, apologise to her memory when there are things you realise that you could have done better with her first time round. Let the warm, living weight of your puppy in your arms comfort you even while you cry for her, and don't resent him for not being her. He is himself, a completely unique living being, and you have the privilege of being the most important thing in his world, now and for years to come.

And yes, it does get better. Very slowly, often very painfully, but it does get better.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

*The difficult end.*



snow0160 said:


> My 16 year old was the first and only dog I've ever put to sleep. Does it get easier?
> 
> I just saw your Milan Kundera quote. He is my favorite writer!!! I took a lot of political philosophy classes in college. I also saw you are from the UK. I worked in London and worked for an MP in Westminster a few years back and it was my favorite city on earth. I would love to move there pending on how the next presidential election turns out. Sorry off topic. I'm always comparing the Goldendoodle to my rescue and he never measures up and I know a lot of it is being biased but the sanctimonious doodle forum does not help. My old dog died from osteosarcoma and I begged and begged my fiance to let me get a Maremma but he said it is unfair if we move to the city and they don't do so well if they didn't grow up with kids. I go on youtube every day looking at Maremma videos and I look through her old pictures and videos and cry. She died July 27 2016. I
> know I got a new dog too soon but I was hoping he would help with my grief. Now it feels like I'm cheating on him.



It never gets any easier. In my experience the grief of losing a family pet can be equal to that of losing any family member. Making the decision to give a dog the grace of a painless death while feeling the loss of a faithful friend is one of the most difficult of life's decisions. Sometimes grief can be exacerbated by guilt. Guilt "did I take a life too soon?" "did I wait too long and make for more suffering?" It takes a mature and stable personality to make these kind of decisions. For myself I once felt guilt in that I contracted someone else (A vet) to do my "dirty work". From that time on I have taken my faithful friends to the vet and asked that I give the final grace. I feel better with this. It would not suit many people but it is my job to look after those I love. My wife (52 years a registered nurse) and I (a trained paramedic) have vowed to give each other the same grace when the time comes. Here it is against the law. Our jails are humanitarian and If I spend the end of my days in one, I will get my teeth fixed and health checked free. To all who have had to make this decision goes my thanks and prayers. No greater love can man have than that of protecting our loved ones from pain.
Eric.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

*Remembering Sahara*

Eric, 
Thank you again for the comforting wisdom. I don't think I'm ever going to forget my first dog. We rescued her when she was considered geriatric at 8 years old. She went through three homes because she snapped at a baby and had accidently temporarily blinded the previous owner's sister. The previous owners said all sorts of things about her that wasn't true- ie she wasn't house broken, she barked frequently, had constant diarrhea. The diarrhea stopped when we switched her off the Science Diet they fed her and onto Acana Pacifica. She only barked when someone came knocking and she only had two accident the entire 8 years I had her.

We had 8 beautiful years together and she lived until to 16 years old (I technically don't know how old she was but her shelter records date back to 2000). She was very sweet with us and had a great sense of humor. We all miss her dearly but she was closest to me...and it has been the hardest for me. As she got older I knew that nothing would ever prepare me for this day. In fact, on her first exam at 8, the vet told that it was nice that I rescued a geriatric dog but I needed to be mentally prepared that I may not have as much time with her. This was the first and only pet I've ever put down but thanks to the sedatives she did look peaceful and happy in the end. Letting go was the hardest thing about loving someone...you know one day it may come to an end. And sometimes I can't believe that I will never see her again. Maybe it gives me something to look forward to in the afterlife. 
Most days I'm fine but every now and then I remember. I miss the horse-like sounds when she shakes off, I miss how she comes running to the door when I come home, I miss her trotting footsteps, I miss her happy expressive smile, and most of all her wicked sense of humor. She used to fart in my cat's face and run away looking very happy as the cat scowls. LOL. We had a wonderful ride even if it had to come to an end. 

I've attached the photo of her and I will never forget her beauty and the joys she has brought into my life.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

She was such a beautiful dog. For a Maremma to live sixteen years is pretty amazing, isn't it? Thank you for sharing with us. :love2:


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

snow0160 said:


> Eric,
> Thank you again for the comforting wisdom. I don't think I'm ever going to forget my first dog. We rescued her when she was considered geriatric at 8 years old. She went through three homes because she snapped at a baby and had accidently temporarily blinded the previous owner's sister. The previous owners said all sorts of things about her that wasn't true- ie she wasn't house broken, she barked frequently, had constant diarrhea. The diarrhea stopped when we switched her off the Science Diet they fed her and onto Acana Pacifica. She only barked when someone came knocking and she only had two accident the entire 8 years I had her.
> 
> We had 8 beautiful years together and she lived until to 16 years old (I technically don't know how old she was but her shelter records date back to 2000). She was very sweet with us and had a great sense of humor. We all miss her dearly but she was closest to me...and it has been the hardest for me. As she got older I knew that nothing would ever prepare me for this day. In fact, on her first exam at 8, the vet told that it was nice that I rescued a geriatric dog but I needed to be mentally prepared that I may not have as much time with her. This was the first and only pet I've ever put down but thanks to the sedatives she did look peaceful and happy in the end. Letting go was the hardest thing about loving someone...you know one day it may come to an end. And sometimes I can't believe that I will never see her again. Maybe it gives me something to look forward to in the afterlife.
> ...



Do please see:
http://www.poodleforum.com/37-pet-memorials/194450-do-we-really-lose-them.html#post2245834
Eric


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

*Thank you Eric!*

Thank you Eric for sharing that link. As I read through it, I cried and cried and cried....but in the end I felt at peace. I really really truly love that poem. Did you write that poem? It is so beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing it. I think I'm going to copy and paste it on my phone and look at it when I can- I cannot think of a more accurate way of describing the whole experience. 


"That day we met, My eyes were wet
I knew I’d found my one
The one that would, so be my friend
That special need now gone
I never knew I had a space
So much in need of filling
A space you found, then filled with love
Your heart so very willing
Then to you, I sang
A heartfelt, quiet ovation
You came to me, and then I knew
We two, had found our station.

I cleaned up your mess, then washed my dress
It seemed to take forever
But soon you learned, the work was less
So very clever, you now were my teddy
Now you could share, my home with me
Every place, now could be yours
My healed heart, was yours already
And we would, not now be alone


The years went by, and with a sigh
I saw a time to come
A time when we would part
Time came! and with a start!
My eyes, again were wet
I bade a quiet goodbye to you
In time we'd meet, get set!
I would see your little face again
In some playful, peaceful place
A space for us, we would find
No parting, no need to fret
Forever and together
With others of our kind."


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

snow0160 said:


> Thank you Eric for sharing that link. As I read through it, I cried and cried and cried....but in the end I felt at peace. I really really truly love that poem. Did you write that poem? It is so beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing it. I think I'm going to copy and paste it on my phone and look at it when I can- I cannot think of a more accurate way of describing the whole experience.
> 
> 
> "That day we met, My eyes were wet
> ...



I did write it. The middle stanza is hopeless and I re-wrote it but could no longer edit it on PF. Now I can't find the edit!! I would be grateful if one of our PF poets could re-write it to read better. It belongs to PF.

In my 70 odd years of dogs I too have felt the grief and loss of my most faithful and loving friends.

I try to remember and celebrate the lives they led and the joy they gave me, rather than grieve my loss, which takes away their important contributions to my life.

I truly believe that our departed ancestors and relatives look over our lives as guides and helpers. We need only to listen to them. I also believe that dogs who have left me help in the same way guiding and helping my new soul-mates to know their place in our world and make them the supportive and calm dogs they can be given this help and mine.

Eric.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

This poem is perfect just the way it is. I think this poem can do a lot of good for people who are going through grief and loss. It has helped me.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Here is the new second stanza. I will post the whole in: http://www.poodleforum.com/37-pet-memorials/194450-do-we-really-lose-them.html#post2245834

I cleaned your mess 
I washed my dress
It seemed to take forever
But soon you learned
The work was less
You were so very clever
Now you could share my home with me
All places now were yours
A place was there to hide your bone
A place to rest your paws
A place within my heart I see
Where we would share our home


Eric


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

As a professional groomer, I have met tons of doodles. I have acouple of great doodles with great owners, but 8 out of every ten I meet, I can't stand! Very much for the reasons stated already. One think ice noticed most of them have in common(I'm directly speaking about the ones I've encountered) they often times have to state how much they paid for the dog. First of all, that doesn't impress me. Especially when your bitching that my starting price is 85 for grooming and you think I'm overpriced. 
I also have to bite my tongue because I would love to respond with "I'm so sorry you were ripped off for paying that much for a mutt"

Another thing I can't stand about these doodle owners is the fact they often wait until the dog is a yr old, because their breeder said too, and then the dog is un-socialized, terrified, and a solid pelt. Which of course I'm expected to brush out because they want their dog fluffy like the picture their breeder sent home with them as the "breed standard". They also argue with me that their dog isn't matted because their breeder told them doodles don't mat. I'm either lazy or want to charge them even more money. 
I think someone above nailed it on the head though. It's their way of justifying the amount of money they paid for a "glorified mutt" that they ended up being disappointed with.


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## poodle oodle (Sep 26, 2016)

hunny518 said:


> As a professional groomer, I have met tons of doodles. I have acouple of great doodles with great owners, but 8 out of every ten I meet, I can't stand! Very much for the reasons stated already. One think ice noticed most of them have in common(I'm directly speaking about the ones I've encountered) they often times have to state how much they paid for the dog. First of all, that doesn't impress me. Especially when your bitching that my starting price is 85 for grooming and you think I'm overpriced.
> I also have to bite my tongue because I would love to respond with "I'm so sorry you were ripped off for paying that much for a mutt"
> 
> Another thing I can't stand about these doodle owners is the fact they often wait until the dog is a yr old, because their breeder said too, and then the dog is un-socialized, terrified, and a solid pelt. Which of course I'm expected to brush out because they want their dog fluffy like the picture their breeder sent home with them as the "breed standard". They also argue with me that their dog isn't matted because their breeder told them doodles don't mat. I'm either lazy or want to charge them even more money.
> I think someone above nailed it on the head though. It's their way of justifying the amount of money they paid for a "glorified mutt" that they ended up being disappointed with.


Say what? doodles totally mat. When we found Red (our best guess is cockapoo but no way to know for sure without a DNA test) he had clearly been on the street for awhile and was so matted the groomer had to shave him basically naked. OMG he looked so funny...I thought it was the wrong dog!! Fortunately his hair all grew back. 
But even if we wait too long his hair can start to mat, usually that can be fixed by brushing him out, and fortunately he's really good about getting brushed and will just lie there soaking up the love.
I guess a cockapoo isn't the same as a doodle but I wouldn't be surprised if doodles matted too. What an odd thing to say!


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

poodle oodle said:


> hunny518 said:
> 
> 
> > As a professional groomer, I have met tons of doodles. I have acouple of great doodles with great owners, but 8 out of every ten I meet, I can't stand! Very much for the reasons stated already. One think ice noticed most of them have in common(I'm directly speaking about the ones I've encountered) they often times have to state how much they paid for the dog. First of all, that doesn't impress me. Especially when your bitching that my starting price is 85 for grooming and you think I'm overpriced.
> ...


Doodle breeders use that as a marketing scheme. The thing is, when you mix a double coated dog with poodle hair, not only does it mat, it usually mats faster and pelts up. I have had to strip way more matted doodles then I have had to strip matted poodles


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

My best friend's mother's dog was the first Goldendoode I've ever met. She had two. The older one was the nicest dog I've ever met. It is calm, sweet, and very obedient. Then a few years later, her mom imported a Goldendoodle puppy from Canada. This dog was insane, mouthy, and hyper. She complained about having to accompany this one to the groomer because he gets matted often and when he goes she was afraid he would bite the groomer. This is an 85 lb puppy so I'd imagine that is quite scary!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

How many Purebred Poodle owners in this forum want these Doodle threads to end?


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Relax man, just responding to grooming issues.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

How can I relax with a couple of new members who are blind to requests from senior members. How nasty, rude and blunt do we have to be 'til you catch on? I'm beginning to see why you were hated in other forums. You just don't get it.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

I guess every forum has a person like you.


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

I find the title of this thread to be rude, and it lumps doodle owners into a "not nice" category. I'd like to at very least see this thread disappear.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

snow0160 said:


> I guess every forum has a person like you.


I defended you once. How quickly some people forget.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Countryboy said:


> How many Purebred Poodle owners in this forum want these Doodle threads to end?



If you don't like the topic then don't read the thread. No one is making you look here.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

You've made it perfectly clear that, in this forum, you go your way and I go mine. You do make an exception when you want to discipline me tho. I wonder why that is?

ETA: Accepting PMs fills up my inbox. This is a forum. If you've got something to say to me, say it to everybody. No secrets.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

*Lets all agree that we love dogs...specifically poodles*

I don't think Lily was trying to dicipline anyone. Let us all get along because we all love dogs...specifically poodles. :aetsch: I think it is important to remember what we all have in common when we agree to disagree on certain subjects. Maybe we can keep disagreements to private messages rather than open attacks. I'm not sure how to close this thread.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Countryboy said:


> You've made it perfectly clear that, in this forum, you go your way and I go mine. You do make an exception when you want to discipline me tho. I wonder why that is?
> 
> ETA: Accepting PMs fills up my inbox. This is a forum. If you've got something to say to me, say it to everybody. No secrets.


Nope... beg to differ CB! There have been plenty of times I've asked members to "take it to PMs" because we don't need any extra drama. If you get PMs you don't like - just hit delete, but don't bring 'em here to the public forum please! 



snow0160 said:


> I don't think Lily was trying to dicipline anyone. Let us all get along because we all love dogs...specifically poodles. :aetsch: I think it is important to remember what we all have in common when we agree to disagree on certain subjects. Maybe we can keep disagreements to private messages rather than open attacks. I'm not sure how to close this thread.


You aren't able to close the thread (only administrators or moderators can). Sorry!

I don't see anything wrong with "doodle" threads at all (as long as someone isn't trying to sell them to us, or trying to get the membership to embrace them as a "breed"... they aren't...) That being said, I don't hate (or even dislike) doodles... I pretty much love ALL dogs (even the dreaded sighthounds!! :aetsch - it's the people who purposely breed these mixes and then charge an arm & a leg for their "designer" mutts with whom I have issue. That, and the breeders misrepresenting these dogs to their new, unsuspecting owners... bad, bad, bad!!

Now... carry on... play nice... and as was stated above, if you don't want to read or contribute comments regarding doodles, just unfollow the thread and find something else to read! There's nothing in the rules about not talking about these dogs - just no selling or marketing.

Thanks all! Enjoy your week! :beauty:

Barb Plum
Moderator


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I think plumcrazy's signature line quoted here says a lot about how to respond to these types of situations.

"There is no rule requiring that you attend every argument to which you're invited..."


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

I don't really care so much, believe it or not. But there's been many of my friends commenting in here that they're not fond of Doodle threads. Those comments must have kept going over everybody's head 'cos it kept getting bumped, and bumped. Apologies, commenters who never read the thread, more apologies... like a bunch of chickens!

But OK... controversy is a good thing for forum stats. So you with mutts can just carry on in Poodle Forum.

PMs create cliques...


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

CB, I do hope you are not using the term "mutt" in a derogatory manner.........I love my mutt and it hurts my feelings when the term is used like a dirty word....... it's not, when it is said with love or humor. :sad2:


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

MollyMuiMa said:


> CB, I do hope you are not using the term "mutt" in a derogatory manner.........I love my mutt and it hurts my feelings when the term is used like a dirty word....... it's not, when it is said with love or humor. :sad2:


Well said Molly. That was not very friendly as I read it either.

I guess it has just been too nice around here recently for some people's tastes. Too bad that the pot seems to have to be stirred so often. I was enjoying having constructive discussions that advanced people's knowledge and helped people deal with situations they were uncertain about how to handle. That kind of discussion helps people with poodles and all other kinds of dogs.


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

Molly, I would have to think CB didn't mean anything derogatory in using the word mutt what so ever. I think I'm pretty safe in saying that if PF members have a favourite, it would be Molly and yourself. My daughter and grandchildren have a golden doodle and they are very nice people, and so is their doodle by the way. So I do take the title of this entire thread as being insulting.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

It must be harder on some eyes, especially our OP on the number of new Poodle cross threads, who had just placed the last of a carefully bred litter between champions. I think it was a pretty unusual occurrence to see so many. As far as I can tell, nearly all of our Poodle members' crosses were accidental breedings or rescues. I would rather have their owners in our informed community than among those mix worshippers/breeders and all of their sanctimony. If our Molly had an Instagram, she would probably have more followers than the Kardashian's. She has a much cuter butt and could probably master a selfie. Her Mom has certainly enriched our forum with warmth, humor and an impressive breadth of animal and avian knowledge. I am thankful every day that Lauren and Cherie are both on this site, our Professor of Obedience, Catherine and so many others.


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

I certainly agree with you mfmst, but not sure what you are saying about the op of this thread.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I didn't get it either? I thought it was just a typo? Clarify please?.................

But Thank You for the Sweet compliments!!!! Molly's butt makes me smile too! LOL!!!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

MollyMuiMa said:


> CB, I do hope you are not using the term "mutt" in a derogatory manner.........I love my mutt and it hurts my feelings when the term is used like a dirty word....... it's not, when it is said with love or humor. :sad2:





Caddy said:


> Molly, I would have to think CB didn't mean anything derogatory in using the word mutt what so ever. I think I'm pretty safe in saying that if PF members have a favourite, it would be Molly and yourself. My daughter and grandchildren have a golden doodle and they are very nice people, and so is their doodle by the way. So I do take the title of this entire thread as being insulting.


Not to worry, Molly. I had no idea what breed you are. I never looked. Until I see it on the boards I would never know what breed of dog anybody owns. 'Cept for those evil sighthounds.  I keep track of them.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I meant to post my comment on the thread Arreau started and attempted to clarify that by writing that the OP wrote about the number of new threads on the "d" topic. Sorry.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Caddy said:


> Molly, I would have to think CB didn't mean anything derogatory in using the word mutt what so ever. I think I'm pretty safe in saying that if PF members have a favourite, it would be Molly and yourself. My daughter and grandchildren have a golden doodle and they are very nice people, and so is their doodle by the way. So I do take the title of this entire thread as being insulting.


CB close your eyes. Hope this post doesn't burn. :wink: j/k haha I got it no more PMs. 

Caddy I feel VERY BAD that I made you feel sad. I would think my mom would say the exact same thing as I have a Goldendoodle. I have mentioned earlier in this thread that my best friend's dog is the nicest dog I've ever met and it was a Goldendoodle. I think her family is very nice. I thought it has been a strange experience since getting my puppy, these people approach me constantly and I've found them generally arrogant or unkind. They are always complaining or angry about their dogs. In my 3 block radius from my home, there are 4 doodles not including mine. I do admit that I live in a pretty yuppy neighborhood so maybe that is why. But I've joined an online doodle community and a lot them are the exact same way. I was just curious if others have experienced this and I'm sorry to have offended you with my posts. :sorry:


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## Kassie (Apr 7, 2016)

My vet, whom I adore, has had standard poodles, German shepherds and either goldendoodles or Labradoodle's (can't recall). Anyways, she loves all breed of dogs. When I asked her whether she'd choose a standard or a doodle in her next dog, she hesitated and then said , the doodle (lab or golden). She said it was for many different reasons and one thing she said, is the doodle has less health concerns. Just saying...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Kassie said:


> My vet, whom I adore, has had standard poodles, German shepherds and either goldendoodles or Labradoodle's (can't recall). Anyways, she loves all breed of dogs. When I asked her whether she'd choose a standard or a doodle in her next dog, she hesitated and then said , the doodle (lab or golden). She said it was for many different reasons and one thing she said, is the doodle has less health concerns. Just saying...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My vet who also has a labradoodle says exactly the opposite.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

In terms of health:

1. A few years ago, I looked at the statistics that OFA maintains on the hips of dogs that have been tested. Goldendoodles had worse hips than either poodles or goldens (fewer excellent ratings and more displastic ratings). Of course, this makes sense since you are combining two very different body types.

2. Standard poodles have a huge problem with Addison's Disease and subaceous adenitis. Both are heritable although the exact mode of inheritance is not known. There is no genetic test for these diseases, and any standard poodle is at risk. I believe that AD and SA are not common in goldens or labs. If that is true, then it stands to reason that doodles would be much less likely to develop these diseases.

3. Goldens have an extremely high risk for cancer. I don't know how that high risk of cancer passes down to goldendoodles, but I am guessing that goldendoodles have a higher risk than standard poodles.

It would be interesting to ask your vets for specifics about health concerns for doodles vs. poodles.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

peppersb said:


> In terms of health:
> 
> 1. A few years ago, I looked at the statistics that OFA maintains on the hips of dogs that have been tested. Goldendoodles had worse hips than either poodles or goldens (fewer excellent ratings and more displastic ratings). Of course, this makes sense since you are combining two very different body types.
> 
> ...


Pepper's answer seems most accurate. I have heard it both ways myself. One vet says they are healthier and another vet said they aren't. My vet said that Goldendoodles tend to be healthier than the poodle and golden retriever (probably two different set of gene pools coming together) and he has been practicing for over 30 years. However, I did originally take him to another vet to get his first booster and that vet said doodles are prone to a lot of health problems common in both breeds ie hip dysplasia. It was for this reason, I did excessive research on OFA vs PennHip. I had Lucky radiographed and his hips are excellent. 

In terms of Cancer: My friend's family with the two doodles...the nice one passed away a few years ago. It had Squamous Cell Carcinoma and they had to amputate part of the foot. It was really sad. I read somewhere that this is very common in poodles.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

snow0160 said:


> It had Squamous Cell Carcinoma and they had to amputate part of the foot. It was really sad. I read somewhere that this is very common in poodles.


I'm calling you out on a lie. Unless you have proof that Poodles are commonly prone to cancer.


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## kayla_baxter (Jul 17, 2015)

My doodle mutt is a shelter rescue from a neglect and cruelty case. At three she had a mast cell tumour removed and more have developed over the last year. Mast cell cancer is common in goldens. She's a great dog, but I make damn sure to point out that she was a rescue any time an actual doodle person finds out I have her because I don't want to be lumped with those who actually support mutt breeding. Working in pet retail I'd say a good 80% of customers with new puppies have some sort of doodle mutt and think they're descended from the heavens to be the perfect dog...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

snow0160 said:


> In terms of Cancer: My friend's family with the two doodles...the nice one passed away a few years ago. It had Squamous Cell Carcinoma and they had to amputate part of the foot. It was really sad. I read somewhere that this is very common in poodles.


Interestingly, squamous cell carcinoma of the toe affects black poodles but not cream/white poodles. See
http://www.poodlehealthregistry.org/docs/Standard/PHR_Standard_SCC.html

This particular kind of cancer sometimes affects black poodles, and any dog of any breed can get cancer. But overall, cancer is not particularly common in poodles. It is very common in goldens.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Countryboy said:


> I'm calling you out on a lie. Unless you have proof that Poodles are commonly prone to cancer.


You asked, here it is! I've also included a screencap in case you can't locate it. 

Standard Poodle Health Problems | Feeding | Raising a Poodle Puppy


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

"Michele Welton has been teaching people how to choose, buy, raise, and train dogs for over 35 years. She is a Dog Obedience Instructor, Behavioral Consultant, Dog Breed Advisor, and author of 15 published books."

Sorry, hon... if you're gonna come into a Poodle forum and trash Poodles as being prone to cancer, I would expect a credible source.

A 'Dog Breed Advisor' just doesn't cut it.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Countryboy said:


> Sorry, hon... if you're gonna come into a Poodle forum and trash Poodles as being prone to cancer, I would expect a credible source. A 'Dog Breed Advisor' just doesn't cut it.


I am not trashing poodles, I simply said they are prone to a type of cancer. You are crazy I am done.


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## Shadoo (Jun 8, 2016)

I have met many very nice doodle owners on my walks but they tend to be uneducated about ethical dog breeding. It is very frustrating. Online people tend to be crazy mean in some circles though, I've never seen the doodle forums but I've been on others that damn you if you don't have a rescue or if you think one dog breed is preferable to another so I can imagine.

Also countryboy you are being enormously rude and reading into things that are not there. Please tone it back.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

peppersb said:


> Interestingly, squamous cell carcinoma of the toe affects black poodles but not cream/white poodles. See
> Poodle Health Registry Breed/Disease Listing!
> 
> This particular kind of cancer sometimes affects black poodles, and any dog of any breed can get cancer. But overall, cancer is not particularly common in poodles. It is very common in goldens.


Sorry, I must have posted my response at the same time you wrote this. I agree with what you wrote about cancer particularly it being common in goldens. 

I found this article to clear things up about squamous cell carcinoma. 

Squamous Cell Carcinoma | The National Canine Cancer Foundation


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

It is not just black poodles that are at special risk for the toe cancer, but also other large black breeds as well including the black russian terrier and the like.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Countryboy said:


> I'm calling you out on a lie. Unless you have proof that Poodles are commonly prone to cancer.


This is an excerpt from the attached link:

_An estimated 40% of all Standard Poodle deaths are from cancer. A common cancer in the breed is digital squamous cell carcinoma, which originates in the toenails. Standard Poodles as young as 4 years old have been reported with this cancer._

Standard Poodle Health Problems | Feeding | Raising a Poodle Puppy

Is this considered indisputable "proof"... well, not unless you believe that everything you read on the Internet is true (BON JOUR!) :act-up: However, I don't doubt it... Unfortunately, cancer is widespread in a lot of dog breeds (and in humans!) I don't think anyone was "lying", but simply providing information they received elsewhere. Cancer is an evil, insidious thing. Hate that sh**! :angel2:

Edited to add... sorry - didn't see the same link already provided above. Like I mentioned, just because it's on the Internet, does that make it true?? Not necessarily, but I don't doubt that incidents of cancer are high in a lot of dog breeds...


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Countryboy said:


> Not to worry, Molly. I had no idea what breed you are. I never looked. Until I see it on the boards I would never know what breed of dog anybody owns. 'Cept for those evil sighthounds.  I keep track of them.


Stalker much?? :aetsch: Keep your eyes peeled, another ESH will be joining the pack sometime soon! :beauty:


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

plumcrazy said:


> stalker much?? :aetsch: Keep your eyes peeled, another esh will be joining the pack sometime soon! :beauty:


esh??????


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## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> esh??????


Evil sight hound I think


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

plumcrazy said:


> Stalker much?? :aetsch: Keep your eyes peeled, another ESH will be joining the pack sometime soon! :beauty:


You haven't learned your lesson with one! :afraid: haha

Khalisi will be sooo excited and jealous... might even open one eye.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

I think she'll be glad to play/fight with someone who plays like she does - the Poodles play completely different games together - and the Afghan is usually the odd man out. Either that or she bullies her way into the Poodle games and she just doesn't do it right - and they let her know! :argh:


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

plumcrazy said:


> she just doesn't do it right - and they let her know!


Scenthounds just know...


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Countryboy said:


> I'm calling you out on a lie. Unless you have proof that Poodles are commonly prone to cancer.



Why are you saying that she is lying? She was referring to her friends dog that died of digital SCC, and said that she heard it is common in standard poodles. She is correct! Even if she wasn't correct, why are you calling someone out for Lying if they simply gave misinformation? I consider those two different things. Also, where did you see or interpret her saying that she hates standard poodles? 

Poodle Health Registry Breed/Disease Listing!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

bigpoodleperson said:


> Even if she wasn't correct, why are you calling someone out for Lying if they simply gave misinformation?


Misinformation is no longer a lie? Is that some kind of Newspeak? 

Let's say that somebody comes to PF looking for information on Poodles. *We are the biggest source of that information on the net.* In there they read that Poodles are prone to cancer. Is that true? Not that I've ever heard. 

So I challenge the poster to prove her assertion... she quotes some blogger. That is not proof... that's opinion. And a rather damning opinion in a Poodle forum. A mutt owner is spouting off false statistics to convince us that our dogs are fatally flawed?... and nobody challenges her on that nonsense?

I guess it's a good thing I'll be sticking around for a while. Somebody in this forum has got to stand up for Poodles.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

*Where does the 40% come from?*



bigpoodleperson said:


> Why are you saying that she is lying? She was referring to her friends dog that died of digital SCC, and said that she heard it is common in standard poodles. She is correct! Even if she wasn't correct, why are you calling someone out for Lying if they simply gave misinformation? I consider those two different things. Also, where did you see or interpret her saying that she hates standard poodles?
> 
> Poodle Health Registry Breed/Disease Listing!


Thank you for your defense! That was precisely my point. The link was very insightful. I don't take CB too seriously I think he likes to joke around. It also doesn't seem that bad to ask questions....as questions lead to a wealth of information even if they aren't all correct. Anyone with a love of sight hounds can't be too bad? Right? I grew up next to our local greyhound rescue president and she was a wonderful woman. 

As to the statistics... I am genuinely concerned about SCC in standard poodles. My *Mutt* is 75% poodle and my last dog died from cancer this summer. 
So I did a little digging... digital SCC isn't particular to poodles...seems to run in Giant Schnauzers as well a few other breeds. I was wondering where the 40% really came from. I too question the validity of the 40% without citing any papers. I used to work in a Neurobio and Neuropsych lab in college and spent hours on pubmed every day. I didn't go that far but I found this article from Institute of Canine Biology citing the 40%. It was called the "Longevity" project and they surveyed poodles. The data was collected in the 80s to the end of the 90s. A 16-year span seem like a lot of data. It looked like the cancer percentage in poodles dropped so I wonder if this has changed in recent years. 

Longevity in the Standard Poodle - The Institute of Canine Biology


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Having been around the breed since 1962, I would challenge those statistics. I have seen two Standards out of countless dogs I've lived with that my Mom or I bred needing to be PTS due to cancer. The others died of age related issues.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> Having been around the breed since 1962, I would challenge those statistics. I have seen two Standards out of countless dogs I've lived with that my Mom or I bred needing to be PTS due to cancer. The others died of age related issues.


good to hear. but most who do serious studies have a saying: data is not the plural of anecdote.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

patk said:


> good to hear. but most who do serious studies have a saying: data is not the plural of anecdote.


And let's not forget that cancer is an age related issue. I don't want to scare people off poodles out of an erroneous perception about cancer risks, but until recently with new imaging technology there were probably lots of dogs that died in old age whose real underlying cause of death was an unrecognized cancer. Now if you want to talk about a breed really loaded with cancer then talk about golden retrievers. Many of the performance people I know with goldens have lost at least one dog to cancer and some of them at very young ages, including a dog who earned an OTCh just before turning three years old and died just after turning three years old of cancer. Here is a link to a piece (written by Dr. Karen Becker) on cancer in GRs and some of the research on why it has become so common in the breed. One of the notable roots of the change is referred to as the "popular sire effect," which is one mechanism for evolutionary bottlenecking (a process that selects strongly for certain genes not out of fitness, but instead "dumb luck," in this case bad luck. My friend whose GR I referred to above has noted that this is really a huge part of the problem in the breed.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Thank you Lily for referencing geneticist Dr. Karen Becker research. I saw this article and it was really informative about canine cancer. It really puts certain myths to rest. I've talked about the "popular sire effect" with Maremma Sheepdog group and they sited this exact reason they don't want them to be part of AKC--off course I didn't know what it was called back then. 

Cancer in Golden Retrievers Began to Spike in the 1990s


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

snow0160 said:


> Thank you Lily for referencing geneticist Dr. Karen Becker research. I saw this article and it was really informative about canine cancer. It really puts certain myths to rest. I've talked about the "popular sire effect" with Maremma Sheepdog group and they sited this exact reason they don't want them to be part of AKC--off course I didn't know what it was called back then.
> 
> Cancer in Golden Retrievers Began to Spike in the 1990s


Duh, I forgot the link. Thanks for adding it.


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## shell (Jul 10, 2015)

Um.. not sure how this conversation got here but a lie is a lie...it is purposely being untruthful... misinformation comes from being misinformed, if you give misinformation your are not lying-you think it's right, it just happens to be wrong-there is no intent to deceive. They are two totally different things.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Countryboy said:


> A mutt owner is spouting off false statistics to convince us that our dogs are fatally flawed?... and nobody challenges her on that nonsense?


I really hate to keep this thread going, but I cannot stay quiet when you act like this poster has a conspiracy to bring down the pure bred poodle.

Nobody is challenging her because there was nothing to challenge. The Misinformation got cleared up. Again, where and why do you think she is trying to steer us away from the poodle? Why can't someone that owns a dog that is 3/4 poodle come on a poodle board and discuss poodles? Is this an exclusive club where Mutts (as you put it) aren't allowed?


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Draco :love2::love2::love2::love2:Gracie:humble:


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

My problem is the name and intent of this thread "why are goldendoodle owners not nice", I'm left wondering why others don't find this inflammatory, and to set the record straight it didn't "make me sad" in fact quite the opposite.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

bigpoodleperson this is the thread I was thinking about when I posted this "Threads that outlive their useful and informative purposes." as a pet peeve. Caddy I understand how you feel about the title of this thread, but the OP herself has a goldendoodle owner. Sadly she hasn't found much community with them, but she seems to have done so here, so I am willing to forgive the title at this point. 

Seems to me like the time to let this thread drop down the list of those with recent posting has come and gone more than once.


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## Tigerediris (Mar 6, 2021)

snow0160 said:


> I have what you call a Poodle mixed with a Golden Retriever or Goldendoodle. I love my dog but my experience with the typical owner is starting to affect my relationship with my dog. You see my fiance picked out the breed for me as a service dog. I did want a purebred or any rescue dog. I live in a very dog-friendly neighborhood and Poodles owners are always nice, and so are Golden owners. Unfortunately, Goldendoodle owners are very standoffish, judgmental, and rude. Most of them freak out if their dog shed, how big their dog is gonna get, poor behavioral problems (mouthing, jumping, etc). It is almost like none of them have ever had a dog before. I had a similar experience on a doodle forum which is why I moved here. That forum didn't particularly have much respect for poodles or goldens...which I found kinda odd. Everyone here on poodle forum is a lot nicer and way more mellow. I wonder if this is just particular to Goldendoodles? Does anyone else have this experience?


Hey there, I have a 4 year old goldendoodle named Samuel. He's a G2 and a great dog. I have the same experience with other Goldendoodle owners as well. I am a manager at a pet shop and most doodles that come in have really rude owners. If I even mention my own they immediately snicker or say things like " well mine was very expensive!" Um..yah they all are what does that have to do with anything? It blows my mind. They also aren't keen on advice from others, and brush off any tips I try to give them about training. My experience so far is that Goldendoodle owners are very stuck up, the doodle on the other hand is nothing but lovable and smart. Just today a woman with a 10 week old Goldendoodle came in to my shop, and all I said was "I got my Sam at 10 weeks too, they are so cute at that age" that apparently was not ok and she snapped saying "they're cute when they are older too!" Rolled her eyes and ignored me after that, unfortunately that's what I'm used to. There are some of us out there who aren't that way, coming from a Goldendoodle mom. It really just depends.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

@Tigerediris you seem to have stumbled into a long dormant thread. I'm going to lock it for now. Please drop in on our member introductions section and tell us all about your boy.


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