# Quit humping already!!!!!



## The Opera Poodle (Dec 19, 2012)

How do I get my two dogs to stop humping each other? One is a spayed four year old female. She would occasionally try to hump the female dog that I lost. Now she has to hump my year old neutered male every time he jumps on the bed or walks into a room. 

And my male will take every chance he can get to hump her back. If she is eating, or playing tug, or doing something else that distracts her, he goes to town. It seems they can't go more than 15 waking minutes without one on top of the other. I've tried distracting them with toys and pushing off the offender with a no. I'm afraid if I try to distract with treats they will learn humping gets them a treat. 

Any suggestions appreciated - it is very annoying.


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## Caniche (Jun 10, 2013)

We have two spayed females and two neutered males in the house. They all try to hump each other. It's for dominance. I'm not sure you can put an end to it...maybe teach the command leave it? 


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

This may help:
The Down & Dirty on Humping: Sex, Status, and Beyond | Dog Star Daily


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## The Opera Poodle (Dec 19, 2012)

Yes, fjm. That gave me all the info I needed and more. Now I am trying to decide if I really should try to stop it between my two. If it is part of play and learning I don't see why I should. Will do the bit about separating them mid deed to see if the other wants to get away. They don't do it to other dogs at the dog park. Thanks.


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## Specman (Jun 14, 2012)

That is the first thing that my fixed male tries to do to my son's female every time I let them outside!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

The only humping at my house (and it is rare) is Lily to Peeves, clearly not about sex and all about who is boss. Since she can be quite full of herself and I don't think he really appreciates it, an emphatic leave it has generally worked quite well to break it up. He gets to make a dignified exit and she gets a reminder that she is not the boss of everyone in the house.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

It is NOT for dominance. What valued resource is being controlled here?? I really wish people would stop misusing the concept of social dominance when they clearly don't have a grasp on it.

Dogs engage in humping for sex as well as when they're over stimulated. It sounds like your two dogs need to learn how to relax around each other. I would reinforce them any time you catch them simply relaxing around one another. You can capture "relaxing on a mat" and cue it whenever they start to engage in humping.


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

How about escort them to their crate every time they do that? Mine doing it too but very seldom. i.e. twice this year alone. Mostly Edison humps Charlie and I thought it was cute. Edison is 1/3 of Charlie's size. I hope I get to caught it on camera someday.

It doesn't bother me BUT it does bother hubby a LOT. I usually grab the camera if they doing it when husband is not at home but if husband is at home and he caught them doing that, I would have to escort them both to their penalty box for two minutes of quiet alone time.


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

msminnamouse said:


> It is NOT for dominance. What valued resource is being controlled here?? I really wish people would stop misusing the concept of social dominance when they clearly don't have a grasp on it.
> 
> Dogs engage in humping for sex as well as when they're over stimulated. It sounds like your two dogs need to learn how to relax around each other. I would reinforce them any time you catch them simply relaxing around one another. You can capture "relaxing on a mat" and cue it whenever they start to engage in humping.


This is interesting. I always thought it was dominance. Shows how much I know. Thanks for clarifying.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

I'm sorry for being short. I shouldn't have been. I train animals professionally and humans are constantly attributing EVERYTHING dogs do to dominance without it even remotely making sense most of the time. 

Turning crates into a punishment area can poison the usefulness if crates, unless you send them there with something to do to help them calm down. If a dog is over excited, how is punishing them appropriate?


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

is there a scientific basis for the assumption that putting a dog in a crate s/he has been taught is a refuge and safe place will cause the dog to suddenly view being placed there as "punishment" and make the crate into a negative? when a dog mouths, one technique for bringing about change is to redirect to a toy. the mouthing is presumably natural to the dog and undesirable to the human and the dog is being shown what to do instead. humping is clearly natural to the dog and usually undesirable as far as the human is concerned. why is redirecting the dog to its crate instead of humping punishment as far as the dog is concerned?

beyond that, is there a scientific explanation for why redirecting to a toy is not seen as a reward for mouthing instead of an alternative to mouthing a person? if a toy is desirable, it would seem that offering it to a mouthy dog would be positively reinforcing mouthing. or does the offer of the toy fall into one of the other three quadrants of operant conditioning?


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> *The only humping at my house (and it is rare)* is Lily to Peeves, clearly not about sex and all about who is boss. Since she can be quite full of herself and I don't think he really appreciates it, an emphatic leave it has generally worked quite well to break it up. He gets to make a dignified exit and she gets a reminder that she is not the boss of everyone in the house.


There's a joke in there somewhere but I won't go there.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Oops, yes there is a joke in there somewhere isn't there. 

I also stand by my view that for my dogs it is about dominance. The times it happens are quiet evening hours when not much has been going on. While I certainly do not look at everything any dog does as couched in a framework of social hierarchy or dominance, there are just simply some moments where it does provide context to what is happening. Exceptions are there to prove the rules, and one always should examine all possible explanations for a behavior. Dogs are no more uniformly motivated than people.


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## Joy (Apr 25, 2013)

My trainer told me to correct Sammy when he tries to hump to let him know that it is unacceptable behavior. He is neutered but he will still occasionally try to hump a female. I don't really care why he does it, I just don't want him to do it. If I planned to breed him I guess that would be different.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

If it's dominance, then kindly explain what resource is being controlled via humping.

It depends on HOW you break it up and bring them to their crates. If done in an intimidating manner, it is punitive and they can possibly now view the crate as being soured with such negative experiences. It's common sense, not necessarily science here. Dogs are intelligent and prone to forming associations.

While you CAN correct dogs for humping, and just about anything else as well, why would correcting them for humping make sense? Just because a trainer told you to do it doesn't justify anything. Anyone can hang a shingle at anytime and call themself a trainer. This industry is completely unregulated. Telling owners to correct their dogs when they're over stimulated and prone to aggressive redirection is dangerous and unprofessional advice. People get bitten for much less.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I recently found this article for a neighbor of mine who have 2 dogs; a female bichon and a male havaneese. The female is very bossy and the little guy is sweet as pie; HOWEVER, he humps her all the time on walks, going down the stairs, etc., and she more or less just stands there and ignores him. 

Why Dogs Hump | Psychology Today


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Here's one more interesting article on the subject. 

Mounting and Masturbation | ASPCA

Luckily, for me, I don't have a problem with Sunny. Maybe it's because he was bred several times before I got him? Who knows -- I am sure disposition plays into it too. Jake, who I lost 2 years ago at 16 years old, had a pillow as his "hump partner" and he made use of it, let me tell ya!--never another dog or anything tho, just his pillow.


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## Joy (Apr 25, 2013)

_While you CAN correct dogs for humping, and just about anything else as well, why would correcting them for humping make sense? Just because a trainer told you to do it doesn't justify anything. Anyone can hang a shingle at anytime and call themself a trainer. This industry is completely unregulated. Telling owners to correct their dogs when they're over stimulated and prone to aggressive redirection is dangerous and unprofessional advice. People get bitten for much less._

Msminnamouse I am assuming this is a response to my post. I find it offensive quite honestly. And, I can assure you my trainer is very professional and very experienced. If you want your dogs to hump everything go ahead. It is your choice, as it is my choice to stop my dog from humping. You don't know my dog so you really don't have the knowledge to judge me or my trainer. It sounds to me like you have a pretty high opinion of yourself.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I think there are lots of opinions on the subject and there are different "camps" -- take a few moments and read the first posted article link I included in my earlier post. I do know that dog behaviorists and trainers each believe their belief is right, and it probably is in their experience. Even in reading books like "The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell, she specifically states that there are some topics that even behaviorists don't all agree on, and I think it's great there are many opinions. I do think people who actually study behavior probably have a "leg up" on the rest of us when it comes to the "why's", and I am sure all are passionate about what they believe.

I think the issue here is if the act of humping is an undesired act, how do you stop it? I know if I had a dog that was constantly humping, I would want to try to figure out how to -- which would also include figuring out why they are doing it in the first place.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

Actually, my dogs don't hump, I keep them sub-threshold. One has never humped and the other doesn't because I know that she's an anxious dog and I make sure to practice relaxation with her. But they get really peeved when another dog tries it on them. And yes, I do have a rather high opinion of myself having earned my status as a behavioral professional with a quality education as well as experience. I didn't just hang a shingle. I made sure to learn the science behind ethology. I'm quite proud of my efforts to do my job responsibly and ethically by having properly prepared for it. 

I wouldn't see a psychologist or other therapist without an education in psychology. I wouldn't take my dogs to see someone without an education in ethology and behaviorism, and hold myself to that standard as well for my clients, or else I'd be just like any one else giving unqualified and usually dangerous advice.

Anyone could accomplish the same if they so chose. For someone calling themself a professional in this field, it's my own opinion that they should. If you find it offensive that I call for qualification in this field and I don't support dangerous advice, then so be it. I maintain my opinions and won't apologize for them when they can prevent someone getting hurt.

You can correct your dogs for humping if you'd like. They're your dogs. Clearly, it hasn't solved the issue if they STILL do it.

Anyone can do anything they want basically, but the OP may not have considered that dogs often hump in a very over excited state and are prone to redirecting towards humans or other dogs with a well placed bite. I've seen it happen quite often and people are VERY surprised when it happens because they don't know different or were given poor advice.

I gave my advice in an attempt to allow the OP and other readers to make an educated and well informed opinion about how they'd like to treat the issue. If they should decide to correct the dogs, they should be aware that they chance a bite and should be prepared for it. Even well behaved dogs can bite when pushed far enough, especially when over excited, before conscious thought sets in. Humans act out of emotion and instinct and dogs are no different.

Social dominance, both contextual and fluid, is the established priority access to valued resources. One individual is not considered dominant until they're consistently deferred to in regards to the resource in question.

In a dominance hierarchy, which domestic dogs haven't been found to form, an individual or pair consistently is deferred to for ALL valued resources available to the group. 

None of which is established by humping, unless mating is occurring and in which case, the resource is breeding rights.

If the dogs are doing it for masturbatory reasons, there's not much you can do besides give them an appropriate outlet. If dogs are mating, again, not much you can do besides separate them or try to prevent it by curbing hormones. If dogs are doing it due to over stimulation, you take their stimulation levels down by interrupting and implementing relaxation protocols. Relax on a mat is perfect for this. So is taking them out of the situation that they may not feel comfortable in. For instance, many people bring dogs to dog parks when their dog just isn't comfortable and can't handle it. So a lot of dogs will compensate by humping and getting on other dog's nerves and fights often occur. 

One of my dogs has a bad back. She wouldn't appreciate any dog jumping on her. But even if there isn't a hidden medical reason, a lot of dogs just don't appreciate being rudely jumped on. Dogs have their own etiquette for their species. Anything doesn't always go.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

why do you assume joy's trainer doesn't have the same qualifications as you without knowing a thing about her? since you have some training in ethology, you must have read people like marc bekoff, and i'm sure you know that even the big names like bekoff and coren, who both come across to me as totally enamored of animals, can and do disagree on some issues. there appear to be a number of recent studies that are overturning longstanding human conceptions about the animal world: we are nowhere near a final destination where knowledge is concerned. bekoff has even written an essay (2012) entitled "social dominance is not a myth: wolves, dogs and other animals".


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

No one is saying social dominance is a myth. I'm saying social dominance has a definition and no one was using the concept CORRECTLY.

I assumed that her trainer is unqualified being that A. A correction doesn't address ANY of the reasons for humping and B. The trainer's advice is dangerous. 

No properly educated behavior professional would give a bandaid solution, especially when it endangers the client.

A lot of people are able to hang shingles because all they know is how to correct everything into suppression and forced compliance. That's working a puppet, not teaching a sentient creature with emotions and needs behind their behavior.

Sometimes I have to wonder if people truly even like their dogs the way they're so gung-ho to correct them for everything instead of actually addressing WHY their pet is acting out.

I'm glad that at least some people feel that their dogs deserve better than that. After all, WE choose our dogs, not the other way around. They're stuck with us.


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## The Opera Poodle (Dec 19, 2012)

Oh my. Didn't mean to open a can of worms. I really wasn't questioning why they humped, but how to stop it. At times when it seems to be overexcited play, I feel if I push the offender off, it will be read as me trying to get into the game. If it is when it is a dominance issue, I feel putting them in a sit-stay and being the boss might be the way to go. But a sit-stay isn’t all that easy to accomplish if they are at the dog park having a hump-a-thon because the minute I get my two in a sit-stay, the other dogs proceed to hump their obedient sitting charges. So, I was hoping someone had found a trick that worked to give me some options to try. 

I see what situations they are in when it happens. And common sense (my version) indicates that at different times they do it for different reasons - and yes, I believe at times it is asserting social status. Until someone learns to speak dog or read minds, the reasons why are just an educated guess. There are going to be a million different versions of the cause because no one wants to write a paper 100 percent agreeing with someone else. Humans use sex as a social status tool; gorillas establish a “sex just for the silver back” rule which shows it plays a role in hierarchy. Why wouldn’t dogs? And like I said – that is my version. I don’t have a degree in humping, in dogs, or in people who have such degrees.

And this is where I stick my neck out – Msminniamouse, you come on way too know-it-all for me to want to take advice from. After I jointed this forum, the first thread I commented on was about choke chains. Your posts almost made me never come on this site again. You seem to want talk down to people for some reason. An example is: “I'm saying social dominance has a definition and no one was using the concept CORRECTLY.” This comes off as “I am right and everyone else is wrong.” And to top it off you had to scream correctly. 

As for the definition of social dominance, whose definition are you referring to? And are you talking about social dominance theory, orientation, or hierarchy? They are all fairly well defined when it comes to people, but once again, when it comes to animals, the definition is only as good as the person doing the observation and interpreting it. It is not hard science. 

It makes me sad that I ask a question that caused ill feelings. I come here to get advice from people who have learned at the school of tried/failed – tried/succeeded. And I value all the suggestions and comments. I am going to let Msm have the last word and stick to asking for advice and questions to the other dog owners at the dog park. No one ever tries to make me feel stupid there.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

top: ill feelings come not from your questions, but from the way a tiny minority chooses to address issues. your going away and not asking questions isn't going to change that. from what i've seen, most people here truly care about their dogs more than anyone's dogma and want to help as well as get help themselves. ask your questions - and challenge the dogmatists when they get in the way of helping find workable solutions.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

Behavior is a science. There are accepted definitions for ethological concepts such as dominance. It's not whatever your opinion would like it to be. 

Embrace ignorance if you'd like. It's your choice. Unfortunately, your dogs have to deal with whatever you choose.

Have fun.


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## fuzzymom (Sep 19, 2013)

msminnamouse said:


> Behavior is a science. There are accepted definitions for ethological concepts such as dominance. It's not whatever your opinion would like it to be.
> 
> Embrace ignorance if you'd like. It's your choice. Unfortunately, your dogs have to deal with whatever you choose.
> 
> Have fun.


Behavior is not a hard science. My degrees are in Sociology and Psychology. You cannot say a certain behavior is attributable to one cause every time in humans or dogs. Just like humans engage in different socially unacceptable behaviors for different reasons, so do animals. For one dog humping might be because of overstimulation and for another it may be dominance, or sexual, or just playing. I know in my family it was dominance. My female pug was the only dog for a year, then we brought a male boxer into the mix. She would hump him only very occasionally for his whole life. Maybe 3-4 times a year and it was when he forgot who was the boss. We brought another female pug into the mix later who was a rescue and very submissive. She never got humped by anyone. You may disagree with my analysys, but I saw the situations and understand the dynamics between my particular dogs and I'm sure it was a dominance issue. 


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

Personally, I interrupt and stop humpers. My new puppy really is the only humper, and in all other things, he's also attempting to be "top dog" by over marking with urine. 

I get to make the decisions about who humps, and I"d like them to think of me as top humper LOL. Not that I'd actually hump my dog LMAO but that I get the last word on all dominance issues. 

You may have to put the offenders on leash so they can be pulled away and distracted with a sit/stay or down/stay. 

Works for me


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

msminnamouse said:


> No one is saying social dominance is a myth. I'm saying social dominance has a definition and no one was using the concept CORRECTLY.


per marc bekoff: "All animals engage in dominance...in a number of ways. For instance, individuals may dominate (1) to control access to various resources, including food, potential and actual mates, territory, resting and sleeping areas, and the location in a group that's most protected from predators; (2) to influence the movements of others; or (3) to get the attention of others, an idea put forth by Michael Chance and Ray Larsen in _Social Structure of Attention._"

sounds to me like bekoff (and a number of respected ethologists and other scientists) have moved on past the restrictive definition of dominance as being solely priority access to a preferred, limited resource. 

imo, the best professionals seek to expand their horizons, not just cling to the specific doctrines extant when they got their degrees (or certifications) - especially when those doctrines are contradicted by ongoing studies and actual experience.

and by the way, i believe bekoff, who does say let the humping go on if it doesn't bug you, also remarked somewhere that like any constantly expressed behavior, it could in some dogs be ocd (in the same way a dog chasing its tail constantly could have ocd). i suspect many do not consider ocd healthy - whether in a human or a dog.

but as pointed out, one is always free to embrace ignorance.


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## Abbe gails Mom (Nov 8, 2012)

No Problem, Were All Family On Here, and Just Like Family, We Fight and Fuss with each other, but there is One Thing We ALL Have in Common, We Love Our Dogs, and All the Dogs on here, and we tell it as we see it, But that's what you want when asking a Question, and When the Dust Settles, were All here For each other, and the wonderful Dogs, that we know as Our Poodle People, and That's As It Should Be.


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## DreamAgility (Sep 2, 2013)

We firmly scolded our doggies when they did this. We have not seen it for a while. Persistence is the key!


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## lindasdoggrooming (Nov 12, 2012)

I have found that it is not a dominance issue. My rescue only humps during play when his best friend is tired and not wanting to play anymore. The excitement of playing is what encourages him to hump. I stop the play and reward good behavior, before it starts. Rewarding positive behavior will go along way to stopping the unwanted behaviors.


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## poolann (Jan 31, 2013)

I interrupt humping consistently. Racer is a humper as is my female to my submissive male shepherd. When he was young Racer attempted to hump me several times. It took time to convince him that I was not to get humped. I still have some issues with him humping my submissive male & if he starts the female feels the need to get in on the action. As someone else stated they need to view me as the top humper lol. Again do not take this literally. However interruption and redirect is what I use. I feel a good part of Racer's humping is puberty and eventually will cease since no one else in the household is intact. If he is not humping then my female shepherd does not hump. Personally I don't care why they do it which I know might upset some folks. I only require that it stops when I intervene. It is now nonexistent in the house but occasionally still occurs outside.

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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Here's how I handle it. My two Chihuahuas have always humped each other on occasion. It's almost always occurs when they're playing cowboys and Indians or hide and seek. lol. They'll chase each other around the house and then one will hump the other. Then they'll go on another run and they take turns who gets to be the humper and who gets to be the humpee. As long as I don't think the smaller one is having her hips strained by the weight of Jose`, I just let them be dogs. They're not fighting. (crazy about each other) And for whatever reason, they like to do this from time to time. IF it bothers me (since I'm a human) and I want them to cool it, I'll tell them, "enough"...which has become generalized for them. It just means, enough of that, now find something else to do. And I'll sometimes help them find another thing to do. 

There never appears to be any particular resource involved. When there is, one will usually growl and get snarky and get the valued resource, not hump. It's never the same dog that always gets the thing they both want. (of course, this doesn't happen much at all with the Chi's, but does with the Poodles.) But even with them, it's never the same dog that is winning access to the resource. And I've never seen humping in connection with a resource, although they too have begun a little of that...not always the same dog. They're not fighting at the time. It seems to be in between wrestling matches...play.

Anyhow, maybe it is a little embarrassing when people are around and they hump. After all, we humans have some standards for cryin' out loud. Maybe it's too hard physically on the humpee, like hips or back getting squashed. But I try not to project my own human/cultural etiquette on dogs...at least not too much. 

So mostly I let my dogs be dogs and as long as nobody is getting hurt or it doesn't become an OCD type thing or too excessive....I let them do what they want. I don't have to understand everything about another species. But I do feel I need to respect that they will have their ways and if those ways don't hurt or cause a lot of trouble, I don't see much reason to worry about it. In fact, I don't think we should interfere with everything dogs do which are normal dog behavior. It might cause some additional stress to always stop that kind of thing. Maybe humping feels good to them and is a stress outlet. They like it. If it doesn't hurt, why not? It can also be a good thing to use as a reinforcer. (a primary reinforcer to boot.lol) You could put it on cue. :act-up:


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## poolann (Jan 31, 2013)

I just pictured myself outside with a clicker waiting for someone to hump. Lol

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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

poolann said:


> I just pictured myself outside with a clicker waiting for someone to hump. Lol
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


LOL. Click, "now go to it." :act-up:


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