# I think its time for poodle # 2



## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

Wow Roxy, huge congratulations!!! I know you've been considering spoo #2 for a while. So come on girl, spill!!! Who are the prospective breeders, or is it ok to ask.


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## Vibrant (Dec 7, 2009)

Surely you'll be looking for a nice red girl, or a black that carries red?


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## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

How exciting! Congrats!


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Oh! So close now !!!


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

Oh yay!!! So exciting!!! I'm sure Enzo will love having a new poodle buddy to romp with!


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## Cdnjennga (Jul 30, 2009)

Very very exciting! Oh the anticipation is a killer.


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## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

roxy25 said:


> I am waiting on two litters now. I had 3 litters but I backed out on one because the breeder was not sure about the black turning into a blue  it was a nice breeding though.


*Baldr says blue is beautiful *
Good luck on your search


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Good luck with your search. Adding another poo pup is always so exciting. poodles are totally amazing !
When you get her/him pls. post photos.


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## Sparkle&Spunk (Jan 26, 2010)

super exciting!! tell us more!!


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Yeeeeaaayyy :drum::llama:

Little Enzzina is coming to town 

Now - now tell us all about your surreptitious activities lately BAYYYBEEEE *wink wink


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## 1Jurisdiva (May 4, 2010)

So exciting! Can't wait to hear all the details!


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

wishpoo said:


> Yeeeeaaayyy :drum::llama:
> 
> Little Enzzina is coming to town
> 
> Now - now tell us all about your surreptitious activities lately BAYYYBEEEE *wink wink


lmao! "Enzinna" so cute! I wish you the best w/ the Spoo search Rox, it's been a long time coming.


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

Please tell us what breeder you are thinking about.
Must be someone super good.


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

> lmao! "Enzinna" so cute! I wish you the best w/ the Spoo search Rox, it's been a long time coming.


*He he, maybe it will be "Lancia" ; )))* :car: VROOOOOMMMM VROOOOOMMMM


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Winnow said:


> Please tell us what breeder you are thinking about.
> Must be someone super good.


Well If I do get one she will be red so its not going to be some "top of the line breeder" since reds are not there yet like black dogs.


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## SusanMallery (Dec 10, 2009)

Congratulations! How fun. I'll admit to a little jealousy.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

So I think I made up my mind ! I have a little more talking it over with my bf and sister and we should have poodle #2 soon 

LOL I really want to buy 2 more dogs but I will see how my plans work out first.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Best of luck in your search. Buying a new puppy is always so much fun.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

whitepoodles said:


> Best of luck in your search. Buying a new puppy is always so much fun.


SO I finalized my pick  I will be working on more details with the breeder. She is such a doll, I have no clue what to name her lol maybe Roxy ? hahahaha


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> SO I finalized my pick  I will be working on more details with the breeder. She is such a doll, I have no clue what to name her lol maybe Roxy ? hahahaha


Oh my goodness! I can just imagine the excitement you are feeling. Congrats to you and your family. Is this your first official spoo?


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Olie said:


> Oh my goodness! I can just imagine the excitement you are feeling. Congrats to you and your family. Is this your first official spoo?


Well I see Enzo as mine lol my sister and I work together this puppy will be mostly mine


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Roxy: Post photos when you get your puppy. What color did you decide on?


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

whitepoodles said:


> Roxy: Post photos when you get your puppy. What color did you decide on?


She is a 6 month old red bitch  

I will I might not get her for another 3-4 weeks But I will keep you guys updated.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Good luck Roxy. Looking forward to seeing your new girl's photos.


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

So happy for you Rox!


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

It is always good to get a mature puppy, circa the 6 mos. old as you are getting if you are considering showing/breeding it in future. At this age, you can see what the puppy's quality is like and not have to guesswork as you do when you get a puppy at 9 weeks old.
Are you purchasing her for show/breeding or pet ?


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

whitepoodles said:


> It is always good to get a mature puppy, circa the 6 mos. old as you are getting if you are considering showing/breeding it in future. At this age, you can see what the puppy's quality is like and not have to guesswork as you do when you get a puppy at 9 weeks old.
> Are you purchasing her for show/breeding or pet ?


Yes we intend to show her also, but wont show her until she grows coat she has been shaved down. So I will practice with her in UKC and get her familar with dog shows.

While she is out growing hair we can still focus on getting more pts on Enzo 

She has all the good traits Enzo is missing and vice versa so I am really excited to get this girl. I do prefer older puppies and dogs since they are not much work as a 8-9 week old. But when I see a good dog age is not an issue with me either.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Good thinking Roxy. Best of luck with your new girl.


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

I can't wait to see pictures of your new baby. I bet she is gorgeous.
How many paints does the Enzo need for his championship?


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Poodle Lover said:


> I can't wait to see pictures of your new baby. I bet she is gorgeous.
> How many paints does the Enzo need for his championship?


14 pts LOL 

Hopefully we can put him on a handler soon or start traveling to other states


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Roxy:
Put him on a handler you will finish him faster and save money doing this too. It is hard to finish a color poodle some judges are so blind they focus only on color and not the quality of the dog, so you will need a handler on your boy to finish it in shorter a time than you would. It is tough for owner handlers to finish a dog themselves let alone a red poodle.. I hope one day judges will look at the poodle not at their color.
Red is beautiful I also signed the FCI petition to accept the reds into the FCI about 2.5-3 years ago and gladly did it.


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

I wish the judges were more receptive of colors other than black and white. I just love reds, silvers and browns and wish more of them would win.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

I would put him on a handler now but he needs more coat, He has the type that is super coarse and dry. We are going to get mentored soon for what we should do with his hair. 

With the new girl I am just going to show her @ one year since it will probably take me a year to grow her into adult cut.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Poodle Lover said:


> I wish the judges were more receptive of colors other than black and white. I just love reds, silvers and browns and wish more of them would win.


I totally agree with you.. They are UNFAIRLY judged and overlooked at times even if they are more worthy than a black or a white , still the black/white will win. 
Unfair indeed. The future depends greately and solely on what the judges do.. I hope one day that the will feel that the color poodles are equal to the black and whites.


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

I am glad you are going to get a mentor and a handler for Enzo. He is so handsome and would make a great champion.  

I bet your little girl will enjoy just being pampered for the next six months.


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

whitepoodles said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> I totally agree with you.. They are UNFAIRLY judged and overlooked at times even if they are more worthy than a black or a white , still the black/white will win.
> Unfair indeed. The future depends greately and solely on what the judges do.. I hope one day that the will feel that the color poodles are equal to the black and whites.


Now how do we make judges see in color???


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

roxy25 said:


> I would put him on a handler now but he needs more coat, He has the type that is super coarse and dry. We are going to get mentored soon for what we should do with his hair.
> 
> Roxy this is the type of coat that is going to be hell to grow. A super coarse coat takes infinitely more time to lengthen and grow than a softer coat not as coarse or profuse. Cole had such a coat and it took ages for it to grow and it will break at the ends at times. My handler had to put him in the bath every 3 days.. She literally washed him during his special's career and also when he changed coat twice per week it was so bad.
> This type of coat will also mat easier than a softer less profuse one.
> ...


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Poodle Lover said:


> Now how do we make judges see in color???


Good question.. I Hope that eventually they do.. The same was with silvers and blues.. and now they are getting the recognition. I also think that the red breeders have to work a bit at improving some of the lines. It is so hard to work with such colors as reds and apricots since the gene pool is so narrow and you guys really dont have the many stud dogs which are available to us black white breeders.
If you want to improve the reds/apricots, I would take the step to first go and breed my red or apricot to an EXCELLENT black from a top pedigree and who will correct or complement the female and take it from there. At least you will have the valuable black's pedigree and then go back into your line with the nice genes you have out of the black stud dog.. My 2 cents. I know that some do it and have good results and then go back into their line with a versatile pedigree.
Some judges dont even realize how hard it is for color breeders to win Ch. with their dogs.. I have seen color dogs be turned down for a ribbon strictly based on their color which is so unfair in my opinion.


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Exactly Ora.. only way to improve the quality of Reds is to breed to a Great black line.. or you can go reverse, into Apricots too.. but my preference would be black


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## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

When do we get to see a pic


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

whitepoodles said:


> Good question.. I Hope that eventually they do.. The same was with silvers and blues.. and now they are getting the recognition. I also think that the red breeders have to work a bit at improving some of the lines. It is so hard to work with such colors as reds and apricots since the gene pool is so narrow and you guys really dont have the many stud dogs which are available to us black white breeders.
> If you want to improve the reds/apricots, I would take the step to first go and breed my red or apricot to an EXCELLENT black from a top pedigree and who will correct or complement the female and take it from there. At least you will have the valuable black's pedigree and then go back into your line with the nice genes you have out of the black stud dog.. My 2 cents. I know that some do it and have good results and then go back into their line with a versatile pedigree.
> Some judges dont even realize how hard it is for color breeders to win Ch. with their dogs.. I have seen color dogs be turned down for a ribbon strictly based on their color which is so unfair in my opinion.


Yes breeding to black is my original plan, I have been preaching this to a lot of red breeders , but some just want color and think that if they keep breeding red to red they will get desired results .Which I don't think will happen since the quality in reds is like poor ( with most reds anyways) 


Thanks for the tip of the coat I bought some conditioner and we have been mixing it with water and spraying it on him. My sister just bathe him last night and left some conditioner in his coat.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SnorPuddel said:


> When do we get to see a pic


When I get her lol


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

I agree black is the way to go.. and if there is no black carrying the apricot/red gene,then I would go with a dominant for black male. There are a few out there who fit the bill in my opinion.


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

whitepoodles said:


> I agree black is the way to go.. and if there is no black carrying the apricot/red gene,then I would go with a dominant for black male. There are a few out there who fit the bill in my opinion.


Is it hard to find a black breeder that is willing to sell to someone wanting to breed it to Red?


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

*heather* said:


> Is it hard to find a black breeder that is willing to sell to someone wanting to breed it to Red?


If you truly want to improve the reds and you talk to the breeders in GREAT detail about your intensions, It is not hard to get a breeder to sell to you ...

Most will not sell you a dog for breeding if you are not going to show it or put it in some type of events. The pet quality puppies of a litter are not intended to be bred so you would have to tell them show quality or breeding dog etc..


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

*heather* said:


> Is it hard to find a black breeder that is willing to sell to someone wanting to breed it to Red?


Heather you dont have to buy a black just look for a good black stud , be honest about your aspiration and goals when you speak to the stud owner. Tell her you are willing to learn how to improve the breed and want to do it with her stud dog providing the pedigree complements one another and you checked the health status in that pedigree and the stud himself.. 
If a novice is honest about their goals and how they view breeding and voice it in an honest manner to an established breeder (stud owner) I dont see why they should be turned away.. We all started somewhere and we all have to get a break.. If someone only wants to breed to produce puppies trust me that stud owner will smell this type a mile away, I know I would, but if you are honest and upfront without putting on any airs and trully voice your desires and goals for the color then I have no doubt you will find a breeder owning a quality black that will offer him to your bitch at stud. Your bitch does not necessarily have to be a champion. There are lots of circumstances why some quality bitches do not end up with a conformation title, but as long as they are tested, have quality and are of good temperament I see no reason why they should be refused. They say that if a dog is worthy to be bred from they are also worthy of their championship.. I had a female that I was not able to finish and she lacks one point only for her title. I had to have hand surgery years ago and could not upkeep her coat so that final point was never attained, yet she was a quality bitch with wonderful temperament and fully tested and I Bred her and got some really nice puppies out of her. 
I dont think you should get your own stud dog, rather inquire to breed to one owned by someone else. I didnt have a stud dog of my own until recently.. I only kept females but now am keeping boys too. They dont all live with me, I only have 4 in my house and do not want more than 4-5 and most of my finished champions live with their adoptive loving and responsible owners and have a wonderful life with one on one owners. I see them all the time, as I would never place a breeding male/female in a home that is not in close proximity to my city.. and I have access to them at all time.
Poodle Variety and Review have a wealth of info about color poodles and stud dogs.. Subscribe and you will find your stud dog in there eventually.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

whitepoodles said:


> roxy25 said:
> 
> 
> > I would put him on a handler now but he needs more coat, He has the type that is super coarse and dry. We are going to get mentored soon for what we should do with his hair.
> ...


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Maybe this, roxy???

Sephora: Phyto Phytokarite Ultra Nourishing Mask - Ultra Dry Hair: Hair & Scalp Treatments


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Plumcrazy:
YES, lol that is it.. Spelling mistake. and I am from a french province, shame on me.. Anyway this is awsome I cant say good enough things about this cream. not cheap but oh how wonderful.
Also my friend who is a top groomer in an upscale Toronto shop who is waiting for a pick of litter male to show (not breed) and later on CORD (yes Snorpoodles LOL knows about him, Lawence he is using ISLE OF DOGS. Not cheap but OMG amazing products and he brought me two gallons this eve when he came to visit us all the way from Tor. and told me this is toward my deposit.. LOL 
I am going to do Onyx tomorrow with Isle of Dogs and let you guys know how I like it. you can google ILES OF DOGS . I heard great stuff about these products.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Thanks Plum and Ora 

I will do co-washes like you suggested Ora,and I will see if I can get that conditioner. 

So I finally paid for my puppy  ( I love teasing you guys lol ) 
I will post pics when I get her lol

I think I picked out a really excellent bitch and I can not wait to get her into the ring. She is just stunning ! She will definately be of value to red and apricot poodle bloodlines.

I have another big secret/teaser as well but you will see it once I post picture hehehehe


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## KalaMama (Nov 20, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> Thanks Plum and Ora
> 
> I will do co-washes like you suggested Ora,and I will see if I can get that conditioner.
> 
> ...


This isn't fair!! Give us some sort of hint? Or something??


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_OH! out:You like to keep us on the edge of our seats, don't you? LOL Can't wait to see the pup you ended up choosing. I'm so happy that you are working to improve the red/apricot lines.
_


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

KalaMama said:


> This isn't fair!! Give us some sort of hint? Or something??




Right.... NOT fair !!


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

she posts that and then disappears!!! what up?! ROXY! dying to see the pup you're getting!!


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

*heather*;109010 said:


> she posts that and then disappears!!! what up?! ROXY! dying to see the pup you're getting!!



Yep she keeps us in dire suspense and moved on to another thread....
Rooooooxy, where are ya? Photos please....


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## McSandd (Apr 30, 2010)

hmmmm.... I have some ideas


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

McSandd said:


> hmmmm.... I have some ideas


Share !


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

McSandd said:


> hmmmm.... I have some ideas


yes please share lol 

There I is only a few people on here like 3 max that has seen my puppy 

I would like to just say she is an import ( more suspense LOL)


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> yes please share lol
> 
> There I is only a few people on here like 3 max that has seen my puppy
> 
> I would like to just say she is an import ( more suspense LOL)


_And they're not telling! :wink:_


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

spoospirit said:


> _And they're not telling! :wink:_




It seems we are all going to be in suspense and wait patiently until the announcement and photos arrive.. but ALAS when ?


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Ok I will let you guys finally see my girl since I might be getting her this weekend  I am so excited 

She has no name ( because I can't think of one ) But she was a doll from the start. I really was not looking for an import but this is what happens when you spend all day on the comp looking at import kennels lol

I saw this litter of apricot and creams and Knew I just had to have one not only were the puppies pretty the pedigree was really nice as well. 

Here is a sneak peak lol 


















This was her at 7 weeks I believe 

I will post more recent pictures as the week goes by lol


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

So excited for you! For some reason the name Lily just comes to mind.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

cbrand said:


> So excited for you! For some reason the name Lily just comes to mind.


O I think Lily is cute ! The breeder is calling her arctica


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## pudel luv (Jan 23, 2010)

LOOK at that TAIL ! Fantastic ! I adore apricots and creams ... more photos PLEASE ! Look forward to all the details. Congratulations.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

pudel luv said:


> LOOK at that TAIL ! Fantastic ! I adore apricots and creams ... more photos PLEASE ! Look forward to all the details. Congratulations.


thanks ! I just love her underjaw so much ( I find it hard to find Standards with good underjaw)! The things Enzo lacks conformational wise this girl has the good stuff to stamp it out


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

This site has a ton of rose names:
Find Roses byColor

Ok.... another name that comes to mind.... Claire


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Great face! Such a pretty girl. 

Are you looking into floral names?


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## KalaMama (Nov 20, 2009)

Oh what a precious little thing I like Arctica and call her Arti


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

Is she from Russia ?


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

cbrand said:


> This site has a ton of rose names:
> Find Roses byColor
> 
> Ok.... another name that comes to mind.... Claire


Lol, I think you like that name too huh? Isn't that your daughters name as well?


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Lol, I think you like that name too huh? Isn't that your daughters name as well?


It is, though her name is spelled Clare. For some reason, that puppy just looks like a Claire. (I will say that my daughter is very pretty. )


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Olie said:


> Great face! Such a pretty girl.
> 
> Are you looking into floral names?


As for the floral names Not really what ever name I feel fits her will do. I want to name her Faye but not sure. 

Winnow yes and no to your question lol


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## taxtell (Sep 17, 2009)

What a sweetheart!
Congrats Roxy!


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

roxy25 said:


> Winnow yes and no to your question lol


so is she born in russia but you are getting her from another country?

Because she looks like a zlato zibri pup


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

she's very cute Roxy... I like the name Willow for white/creams  congratulations!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Winnow said:


> so is she born in russia but you are getting her from another country?
> 
> Because she looks like a zlato zibri pup


No not the same breeder but good guess


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## pudel luv (Jan 23, 2010)

Winnow said:


> so is she born in russia but you are getting her from another country?
> 
> Because she looks like a zlato zibri pup


This is getting good...pictionary in reverse ! Roxy, you are good !


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

She is a stunning puppy and looks even better in her updated pics. I can't wait for her to get here!


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## pudel luv (Jan 23, 2010)

I went back and read the whole thread to get the time line straight. Did you decide on the apricot/cream litter instead of the 6 mos. old red bitch mentioned in July? How old will your pup be when she arrives? All very exciting!


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## *tina* (Jan 3, 2010)

Very sweet looking! I'm not good with names, so good luck with naming her!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I like Blanche...


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

pudel luv said:


> I went back and read the whole thread to get the time line straight. Did you decide on the apricot/cream litter instead of the 6 mos. old red bitch mentioned in July? How old will your pup be when she arrives? All very exciting!


Thats what I am thinking too because this one is not red LOL


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Winnow said:


> Thats what I am thinking too because this one is not red LOL


It will all make sense soon LOL


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Shes an adorable puppy :]
I like the name Candace for a girl puppy 

and Cbrand I like the name Claire too XD one of my BEST friends name is Claire fantastic girl ^_^


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> It will all make sense soon LOL


....Poodle #3!!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Keithsomething said:


> Shes an adorable puppy :]
> I like the name Candace for a girl puppy
> 
> and Cbrand I like the name Claire too XD one of my BEST friends name is Claire fantastic girl ^_^


LMAO Keith no to Candace because l sisters name is Kandice hahaha


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Olie said:


> ....Poodle #3!!


 hmmmm ?


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> LMAO Keith no to Candace because l sisters name is Kandice hahaha


lmao XD 
that might get a bit confusing XDD


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## Teffy (Jul 4, 2010)

Congrats, she has such a sweet little face. A little darling.
Put my vote in for Lily, it's a sweet name for a sweet little babe.

Full name something like Tiger Lily, Water Lily, Lily of the Valley
Nicknames...Lillyloo, SillyLily, Lilywilly

Congratulations...more pictures please!


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

found the breeder 

And I am wondering what health testing do they do?
They do not mention it on the homepage.


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## pudel luv (Jan 23, 2010)

Olie said:


> ....Poodle #3!!


Olie, perhaps you are correct. Ah, the suspense !


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Winnow said:


> found the breeder
> 
> And I am wondering what health testing do they do?
> They do not mention it on the homepage.


Don't share please not yet hahaha


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## pudel luv (Jan 23, 2010)

OK, Winnow ... spill the beans ! Just kidding, Roxy.


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Beautiful : ))))) ! Yes, she looks even more stunning now  

Roxi - ask for "two for one" deal LMAO 

Can not wait for baby to land here !!!! So happy for you : )))


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

roxy25 said:


> Don't share please not yet hahaha


I promise


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## Beach girl (Aug 5, 2010)

Are you importing the puppy from Europe? Have you seen her in person at all or just in pictures? Does she come over in cargo? I'd be so scared!! (Although I've shipped my dogs in cargo, too, between continents. Never had a serious problem; had a couple minor ones from time to time.)

Can't wait to see pics, along with everyone else.


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## apoodleaday (Feb 22, 2010)

Congrats Roxy!! Your baby is adorable!!


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Winnow said:


> I promise


Hehe.... it's hard keeping Secrets, isn't it ? lol Did you see their home ?? WOW


cbrand, I like those names too, Lily and Claire.

I think the puppy would definitely suit Lily... please not Faye!!!! hahahaha!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> I like Blanche...


If she was white maybe .... She is cream :doh:


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

jak said:


> Hehe.... it's hard keeping Secrets, isn't it ? lol Did you see their home ?? WOW
> 
> 
> cbrand, I like those names too, Lily and Claire.
> ...


LOL why do you hate Faye ?


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Because the only Fayes I know are grumpy old woman!!! haha... it just seems so old fashioned! You should pick a youthful, modern springy name!


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

...have to agree eep: LOL ; ))) Enzo can not have a "hotter" name than your GIRL : )))) !!!!


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## Spencer (Oct 7, 2009)

You could always name her Crema... it is "Cream" in Italian. lol

Enzo is named after the Enzo Ferrari, right? So you could go the car route again. What about *Lotus*? drool: hello, dream car, where have you been all my life?)

I looked up the 10 most expensive cars and they are:

Bugatti Veyron - Bugatti?
Lamborghini Reventon - Lambo... but that really isn't girly
McLaren F1 - Laren... I knew a girl named Laren (not Lauren) she was evil.
Ferrari Enzo - Well this one is out, unless you wanted to call her Ferrari 
Pagani Zonda C12 F - Pagani?
SSC Ultimate Aero - Aero would be cute for a light colored dog, well... I mean, I think so, lol.
Saleen S7 Twin Turbo - Pfft, Rousch's are way cooler, but hey, lol Wonderpup would probably say go for Saleen. 
Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren Roadster - Mercedes, Benz... Benz would be cute?
Porsche Carrera GT - Porsche (but only if you pronounce it correctly!)

Anywho... That was my addition to this thread, haha. I love me some nice, fancy cars. I wish I would have thought of some of these when I was trying to re-name Tate! (I went for car PARTS, and none of them sounded as good as I had hoped. I liked Piston, but you know everyone would have called him Pi$$ or Pi$$y!)

I still vote for Lotus!


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Yeap LOL

I suggested long time ago she might want to stick with Italian sport-cars LOL ; )))

I like Lancia and I also wanted to suggest Crema lol ; ))) !!!! She is a "creme-de la-creme" after all :biggrin1:


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## penny_ann (May 29, 2010)

She is so cute! I like the name Lily too.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Spencer said:


> You could always name her Crema... it is "Cream" in Italian. lol
> 
> Enzo is named after the Enzo Ferrari, right? So you could go the car route again. What about *Lotus*? drool: hello, dream car, where have you been all my life?)
> 
> ...


well I want to name her vey short for veyron I dunno I might just stick to that. I also like Karma lol 

Fisker Automotive


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## Spencer (Oct 7, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> well I want to name her vey short for veyron I dunno I might just stick to that. I also like Karma lol
> 
> Fisker Automotive


Well heck, name her Vey! I love it! (One of my favorite photographers - dog, actually - is named Erin Vey!)

I think Karma is quite a common name, so I wouldn't name my dog (or cat) that... but if that doesn't bother you then I guess it is all about picking which car you like best


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

jak said:


> Hehe.... it's hard keeping Secrets, isn't it ? lol Did you see their home ?? WOW


Technically its not a secret its on the web for everyone to see you just have to know how to look.

And there home is amazing


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

jak said:


> Because the only Fayes I know are grumpy old woman!!! haha... it just seems so old fashioned! You should pick a youthful, modern springy name!



my nickname is fae ... 

i like benzie (my friend's daughter is named benzie)


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

Teffy said:


> Congrats, she has such a sweet little face. A little darling.
> Put my vote in for Lily, it's a sweet name for a sweet little babe.
> 
> Full name something like Tiger Lily, Water Lily, Lily of the Valley
> ...


my female cairn's name is "faerie's lily of the valley" i call her evil lily. 


i love naming dogs!


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

jak said:


> Hehe.... it's hard keeping Secrets, isn't it ? lol Did you see their home ?? WOW
> 
> 
> cbrand, I like those names too, Lily and Claire.
> ...


IDK, I'm enjoying it LOL. 

I like "Vey" too but not Porsche or Mercedes. I automatically think of the Chapelle Show skit w/ the strippers all named after cars. "Vey" sounds like "Faye", just a thought.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

There's also "Fey" which is pronounced Faye, but spelled differently... these are some definitions of the word, fey:

supernatural; unreal; enchanted: _elves, fairies, and other fey creatures_
whimsical; strange; otherworldly: _a strange child with a mysterious smile and a fey manner._

I think that's cool, but I like fantasy stuff!


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

yeah, i am fae after faerie ... my name is tina ... i have friends call me tina/fae

fae is pronounced faye


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

For names I like Thea, Amy, Kira, Sophie and here are some Icelandic names and what they mean  Female dog names

I think you should show us the new pic of her, she looks so much better in it.
She is so over stretch in the first pic


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Winnow said:


> For names I like Thea, Amy, Kira, Sophie and here are some Icelandic names and what they mean  Female dog names
> 
> I think you should show us the new pic of her, she looks so much better in it.
> She is so over stretch in the first pic


Europeans Always overstretch their dogs in pictures that is their style


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Winnow said:


> I think you should show us the new pic of her, she looks so much better in it.
> She is so over stretch in the first pic


Yeap Roxy-babe LOL Time to show Fay in all of her glory  !!!!


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

roxy25 said:


> Europeans Always overstretch their dogs in pictures that is their style


I will have to disagree with you there.
I am European if you remember and its not our style.
Seem to be there style and I have also seen this from some Russians.
but it gives the pups the look of having sway backs

Here are 3 of my imported dogs from all over europe.
none of them is over stretch


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Winnow said:


> I will have to disagree with you there.
> I am European if you remember and its not our style.
> Seem to be there style and I have also seen this from some Russians.
> but it gives the pups the look of having sway backs
> ...


whatever lol


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## Vibrant (Dec 7, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> whatever lol


I find it interesting that you dismiss Winnow's comments with a laugh. In fact, the photo of the puppy you posted is pretty straight from the hock to the ground which shows that she's quite overangulated in the rear. Also, I notice that her front legs are way out in front of her shoulder...maybe a long shoulder blade and a short forearm, which is a conformation fault (should be equal) (though it seems to be winning in the conformation ring these days). I thought, from your previous posts that you were wanting to breed to the standard. This puppy is lovely and will be flashy but she's extreme. Is that really what you're wanting to breed?


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Vibrant said:


> I find it interesting that you dismiss Winnow's comments with a laugh. In fact, the photo of the puppy you posted is pretty straight from the hock to the ground which shows that she's quite overangulated in the rear. Also, I notice that her front legs are way out in front of her shoulder...maybe a long shoulder blade and a short forearm, which is a conformation fault (should be equal) (though it seems to be winning in the conformation ring these days). I thought, from your previous posts that you were wanting to breed to the standard. This puppy is lovely and will be flashy but she's extreme. Is that really what you're wanting to breed?


Trust me I know what I am looking for but thanks for you critic/concerns on a puppy that was probbaly 6.5 weeks old not stacked properly lol


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

I would not overlook Vibrant's post. While your opinion of your pup is different than Vibrant, I presume you also critiqued her from that same photo, did you not?

I'm sure you know what you're looking for, but as humans, we can make mistakes.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Roxy what did you see in this particular puppy that made you know you had to have it? I know that you had been looking for a pup for quite some time 
it doesn't seem to be the colour that you had originally set out to get

and is this the same red girl you posted about a few weeks ago?


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

*Evals from Photos*

Very hard to properly critique from photos. Probably why Roxy requested multiple videos of the pup from all angles and of pup moving as well.

Pup is more European in style. Heavier chest, shorter leg but nice and something Roxy can use. And much nicer than most apricots or reds being offered in the States.

Pedigree has some smoke too. Of course I am an Avatar Concord lover and all who don't agree are forgiven (would like the tongue out smiley guy)

Sorry, Roxy, for jumping in. 

Here, I would think congratulations -only - are in order. Your decision is made, pup is purchased and on her way.

Why someone on a thread always "spits in the soup" on this forum I can not understand.

It's consistent and often though.


Edit:

Apologies offered if I misread the tone of the critical posts.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Keithsomething said:


> Roxy what did you see in this particular puppy that made you know you had to have it? I know that you had been looking for a pup for quite some time
> it doesn't seem to be the colour that you had originally set out to get
> 
> and is this the same red girl you posted about a few weeks ago?


First thing I liked is her nice expression and head, she has good underjaw ( which is like hard to find in reds) I was pet peeving about her ear set but her current pictures they are right at the eye and she looks better. 

I saw correct shoulders and chest in her current pictures. I think her pedigree is AWESOME and it will do a lot for what my sister and I are trying to achieve with reds. Yes she is cream I wont lie and say I didnt want a apricot from the litter but you have to look passed color, she came out of two apricot parents so the genetics are there . She will probably produce some nice dark apricots and a few reds ( her half sibling is red same color as enzo a really stunning bitch IMO) She is a tad long in body but i dont worry about that since Enzo is square and not long. Her feet are nice and correct , I like her angulation also. ( I know she should grow out of it) , last thing is she will bring some size into our mix.

I watched many videos of her dad in the ring I love his attitude and the breeder said this puppy reminds her of the sire. I like the dam a lot she is also stunning. I think this puppy looks like the mom in the face and head and she got the body of her daddy  I think the combo is nice. 

This is not the same red girl I was talking about a few weeks ago that is another saga


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

NOLA Standards said:


> Very hard to properly critique from photos. Probably why Roxy requested multiple videos of the pup from all angles and of pup moving as well.
> 
> Pup is more European in style. Heavier chest, shorter leg but nice and something Roxy can use. And much nicer than most apricots or reds being offered in the States.
> 
> ...


 thanks Tab I love Avatar concord I like the avatar dogs in general. 
people on here know how critical and picking I am so they nit pick my poor baby if as that was my only picture I received of her. 

I would not go through all the trouble to get her if she was crappy swayed back and overangulated with incorrect shoulders hwell:


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Exactly why I ask for opinions on breeders and dogs via PM or private email. (Not that Roxy asked.)


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## jcwinks (Jun 26, 2010)

Harley_chik said:


> Exactly why I ask for opinions on breeders and dogs via PM or private email.


This sounds like a good idea!


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

**

Yes Yes Harley Chik!

Said MUCH better than I said it!

Congrats Roxy! VERY happy for you!


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Breeders differ in their opinions of what constitues a quality show dog.
There are breeders who will grade a litter and keep a pick they label a "breeder's dog" others will keep what they refer to as a "handler's dog". 
A breeder's dog is not necessarily a flashy, typey dog or one who is overly angulated and extreme This type of dog is basically a very sound correct dog, without any glaring extremes, one that is built properly and correctly without being overdone in any way. 
A handler's dog on the other hand may not be sound but is extreme, flashy, very typey & intense showy dog who moves with his head thrown backwards, over reaching and driving, yet this type of dog inspite of being incorrectly constructed many a times will win over a more balanced less flashy dog. 
Breeders choose either type based on what they need to work on and improve in their line. They will either choose a less correct type but one that is flashy and extreme because what they have in their line will need this type of boost, as they are sound but not typey. The extremely angulated dog will infuse some type and pawzzaz in the line which is needed. On the other hand breeders who have overly done dogs, very showy and extreme yet not as sound, will need to choose a more moderate type of dog, one that is sound and not overly done in order to "moderate" the extremeness in thier line.
It is possible that Roxy or anyone for that matter would opt to purchase a puppy which is extreme and overly angulated in the rear because this is what appeals to her and the type she feels would complement her male.
Opinions will always differ and what is pick for me will not necessarily be pick for someone else grading the same litter. As they say, there is a dog for every judge and a judge for every dog. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, always.


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Whitepoodles,

This was one of the most informative and useful inputs. Thanks for sharing your expertise here on continual bases and giving everybody a new perspective on many things involved in breeding and showing


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

also important to note is the "pedigree" one imports to incorporate into their line in future or to base a new line on as a novice.
Personally I have consistently worked mainly with pedigrees. I dont necessarily base my breeding decisions on what the dog looks like. I only want to see that he/she does not have glaring faults and is basically conforming to the breed standard.. and in most cases rely mainly on the pedigree of the dogs I use in my breeding program. A pedigree is worth its weight in gold and I know many breeders including myself who will either import or breed strictly based on pedigree and not what the dog/bitch looks like, ofcourse unless they lack merit/quality.


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## Vibrant (Dec 7, 2009)

whitepoodles said:


> A handler's dog on the other hand may not be sound but is extreme, flashy, very typey & intense showy dog who moves with his head thrown backwards, over reaching and driving, yet this type of dog inspite of being incorrectly constructed many a times will win over a more balanced less flashy dog.


Thanks Ora. This is exactly what what I was alluding to.
I had gotten the feeling from all of Roxy's previous posts that she was wanting to breed the more 'sound' type of poodle. I believe she referred to it as good animal husbandry. I was surprised to see she'd bought an extreme puppy...a lovely looking girl, I might add, that will do well in the ring. Roxy has the right to change her mind...it just surprised me. I had always admired her zeal to breed correct, sound poodles. It takes longer to finish the sounder poodles...go figure!!:wacko:
Roxy, I meant no harm, and I apologize if I came across as critical. I was just stating the obvious, but clearly I misunderstood your intentions. Personally, I have always looked for a dog that is sound and balanced, because I want to be able to do more than conformation with them. Extreme dogs will have more trouble swimming, dogs with ewe necks (not saying your girl has a ewe neck, but many show dogs do) have trouble picking up and carrying ducks on land and in the water.
A tracking dog cannot have a front that is so far forward that it can't put its head to the ground.
I have also observed in the many litters that I have temperament tested that the puppies bred solely for their typey conformation have lost some of the natural instincts, which stands to reason because the pick pups have been chosen for the way they look.
Roxy, as long as the parents have all their health testing cleared, and you're confident that her temperament will fit your expectations, you have a lovely show puppy to enjoy and breed to Enzo.
Best of luck with her!
Vivienne
Edited to say that the tone of this post is friendly


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

vibrant (Vivienne):|
Totally am in agreement with your post. Performance people seek not only good conformation to be able to win with but also for function. If you do both conformation and performance you will have to give up something for another. Some conformation poodles these days will not stand a chance in performance field and will collapse upon first attempt because they are not constructed properly and are unbalanced. I know of a very knowledgeable lady from ontario who was looking to purchase a puppy and graded a litter based on both. conformation and ability of the dog to sustain rigorous performance activities. I admired her desire to have both a beautifultypey poodle but also correct and balanced conformation coupled with great temperament. A very difficult thing to accomplish especially these days when some breeders breed for ribbons but not necessarily for health and soundness. It was always my endeavor to produce puppies that will excell in both conformation and performance and many a times I would pick a middle of the line dog, who posesses soundness of body and mind over flashiness and extremenss inspite of knowing that the latter will produce beautiful flashy show dogs for me, I would pass this up and overlook the flashiness and concentrate more on soundness and correctness. But that is just me. others may not view things the same as I do. Bottom line for me is.. I need to have a poodle that will not only be a pretty show dog, but one that is also sound, solid in body, balanced and a dog that can easily perform in a field (performance) if I ever choose to compete in performance. 
Cole's brother was way flashier and more extreme than my boy Cole, but still when I was given the choice of pick male by the breeder I opted to purchase Cole because I had found him to be sounder, and more balanced, less extreme or flashy but one that I felt will be more suitable to be incorporated in my breeding program. I have produced both, flashy dogs and moderate dogs.. I always choose one based on what I need to improve and correct in my line, but have always opted to pick the balanced sounder dog and not the flashiest extreme one. When one tends to always pick flashy extreme and overly done dogs to breed to they do paint themselves eventually into a corner. Balance and soundness is of utmost importance to me in my breeding program, with only the OCCASIONAL flashy extreme dog to ad into it.


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

Vibrant said:


> Roxy, as long as the parents have all their health testing cleared


You know Roxy the club your breeder is in only asks for hip scores of the parents nothing else.

And in the ad they only state the hip scores so I am guessing that there are no other tests done. 
I would be careful about SA.

I am not trying to be mean and I like the pup, much better in the new pics and the parents look good, but like Vibrant I always thought you had higher standards.


This is from the tread "what makes a byb and a good breeder"


roxy25 said:


> if your bitch is not OFA on hips the its not FULLY health tested PERIOD
> 
> Im sorry but UKC is flawed. I don't see how you can compare the two within standard poodles. UKC you can get a CH with out other poodles EVER showing up in the ring. AKC this would never happen you have to beat other dogs.


So according to your words you are buying a pup from parents who are not fully health tested.
And they are FCI champs so they could be champions with out ever having any competition.

Just saying


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Vibrant said:


> Thanks Ora. This is exactly what what I was alluding to.
> I had gotten the feeling from all of Roxy's previous posts that she was wanting to breed the more 'sound' type of poodle. I believe she referred to it as good animal husbandry. I was surprised to see she'd bought an extreme puppy...a lovely looking girl, I might add, that will do well in the ring. Roxy has the right to change her mind...it just surprised me. I had always admired her zeal to breed correct, sound poodles. It takes longer to finish the sounder poodles...go figure!!:wacko:
> Roxy, I meant no harm, and I apologize if I came across as critical. I was just stating the obvious, but clearly I misunderstood your intentions. Personally, I have always looked for a dog that is sound and balanced, because I want to be able to do more than conformation with them. Extreme dogs will have more trouble swimming, dogs with ewe necks (not saying your girl has a ewe neck, but many show dogs do) have trouble picking up and carrying ducks on land and in the water.
> A tracking dog cannot have a front that is so far forward that it can't put its head to the ground.
> ...



Good try Winnow and Vibrant 

you two are hilarious If I cared for your opinion I would have asked you via pm or email


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## Oodlejpoodle's mom (Sep 11, 2009)

Roxy,

Enjoy the puppy, she is beautiful and will make Enzo a very happy boy!!!


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

roxy25 said:


> Good try Winnow and Vibrant
> 
> you two are hilarious If I cared for your opinion I would have asked you via pm or email


Well i wasn't trying anything just stating the obvious.
And I would care about SA since the sire of the dam has a litter sibling with it.

And this is not my opinion this is your opinion.
You said those things not me


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

I've seen the parents and I've looked at the pedigrees. Health issues may be unknown and lurking, but get in line. There are plenty of hot, in demand pedigrees that have issues. Winnow, your own stud dog is a son/grandson of my Sabrina's sire right? 

The way the puppy is stacked is odd to say the least, but I don't think her hocks are straight and once correctly stacked, I think you are going to see a bitch that is extreme but probably not too over-done. Lets face it. Whitepoodle is right. Sometimes you have to bring in the big guns to affect some change. This bitch is going to bring in style, neck, forechest and angles, plus she is going to diversify the Apricot and Red breeding pool. 

This "type" is very popular right now in the US. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it sure does a lot of winning nationally. Given Roxy's other choices in Red or Apricot, I don't think this is a poor choice. If she doesn't like what she gets, in this girl or out of her, she can always go in another direction.


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## Vibrant (Dec 7, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> Good try Winnow and Vibrant
> 
> you two are hilarious If I cared for your opinion I would have asked you via pm or email


Whatever! lol!


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## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

Congrats Rox! She's adorable. I don't see that her build is all that extreme. Her stack is definitely extreme/weird so it's hard to tell. She looks limber if that counts  LOL. Regardless, she's a pretty little thing! I love the long natural tail.

Can't wait to see updated photos!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Winnow said:


> Well i wasn't trying anything just stating the obvious.


Sure winnow :rolffleyes: We all know why you are posting in my thread and its not merely because you like my dog or me lol

So just get over it and Pm if you want to hash this out.....


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

cbrand said:


> I've seen the parents and I've looked at the pedigrees. Health issues may be unknown and lurking, but get in line. There are plenty of hot, in demand pedigrees that have issues. Winnow, your own stud dog is a son/grandson of my Sabrina's sire right?
> 
> The way the puppy is stacked is odd to say the least, but I don't think her hocks are straight and once correctly stacked, I think you are going to see a bitch that is extreme but probably not too over-done. Lets face it. Whitepoodle is right. Sometimes you have to bring in the big guns to affect some change. This bitch is going to bring in style, neck, forechest and angles, plus she is going to diversify the Apricot and Red breeding pool.
> 
> This "type" is very popular right now in the US. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it sure does a lot of winning nationally. Given Roxy's other choices in Red or Apricot, I don't think this is a poor choice. If she doesn't like what she gets, in this girl or out of her, she can always go in another direction.


Thanks cbrands & rockreporter



I can't wait to get her here !


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> Sure winnow :rolffleyes: We all know why you are posting in my thread and its not merely because you like my dog or me lol
> 
> So just get over it and Pm if you want to hash this out.....


Roxy, I'm a super sleuth ((Call me Nancy...NANCY DREW)) and figured out the breeder as well but I won't say who it is because you want to keep it as a surprise :]]

but can I ask what if any health testing has been done on these dogs? I can't seem to find much of anything on the either side of the pedigree =\
and I am a bit surprised, when you have mentioned many times that Enzo is from an untested, bad pedigree, that you would consider a dog to breed to him with virtually no health testing behind it either =\\

but I don't think Winnow has any ulterior motives ((sorry if I'm wrong Wnnow...)) but I think shes just as curious as I am why you'd have chosen a dog with little to no health testing and a cream/white background especially after how adamant you've been about health testing and having it posted on OFA

In the end Roxy it doesn't matter what anyone thinks about your dog...if there are consequences there yours and I'm sure you'll bare them well, but if you love your dog thats all that really matters IMO ^_^

((And I for one have no ulterior motives aside from curiosity and the help of PHR ))


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

Keithsomething said:


> Roxy, I'm a super sleuth ((Call me Nancy...NANCY DREW)) and figured out the breeder as well but I won't say who it is because you want to keep it as a surprise :]]
> 
> but can I ask what if any health testing has been done on these dogs? I can't seem to find much of anything on the either side of the pedigree =\
> and I am a bit surprised, when you have mentioned many times that Enzo is from an untested, bad pedigree, that you would consider a dog to breed to him with virtually no health testing behind it either =\\
> ...


No I am just like you


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Keithsomething said:


> Roxy, I'm a super sleuth ((Call me Nancy...NANCY DREW)) and figured out the breeder as well but I won't say who it is because you want to keep it as a surprise :]]
> 
> but can I ask what if any health testing has been done on these dogs? I can't seem to find much of anything on the either side of the pedigree =\
> and I am a bit surprised, when you have mentioned many times that Enzo is from an untested, bad pedigree, that you would consider a dog to breed to him with virtually no health testing behind it either =\\
> ...


stop playing dumb Keith !


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm not playing dumb about anything...you go on and on and on about health testing about other peoples breeding stock but when you're questioned about it you refuse to answer...I'll post what I've seen on PHR if you'd like that way someone whose better at reading a vertical pedigree can explain it to me but when I read PARENT OF - SIBLING TOO on all the dogs but no mention of health testing on THAT dog I assume there isn't anything done on it...if I'm wrong in that assumption I apologize but I'm FAR from playing dumb about anything


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

roxy25 said:


> Sure winnow :rolffleyes: We all know why you are posting in my thread and its not merely because you like my dog or me lol
> 
> So just get over it and Pm if you want to hash this out.....


Sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about.

I like your pup thats not the issue, I am just saying that this is something that you would tell other people to stay away from.

No health testing lots of white in the pedigree. 
And the dam has a previous litter who had red in it. But guess what that red has now faded to apricot.

You seem to have always such strong opinions on things, like a dog is not health tested unless it has OFA hips and so on.

This dog has nothing off the stuff you have been preaching about.
Yes its flashy and it looks good, but what about the rest ?


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## bpk082 (Feb 3, 2009)

Hi everyone I could not stay away from this post, like I usually do when other non sense arises. So my question is for Keith, Vibrant, and Winnow. What does your dogs look like?


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## KalaMama (Nov 20, 2009)

bpk082 said:


> Hi everyone I could not stay away from this post, like I usually do when other non sense arises. So my question is for Keith, Vibrant, and Winnow. What does your dogs look like?


I don't think it has so much to do with the dog.. more about being able to take it if you dish it out. ?


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

bpk082 said:


> Hi everyone I could not stay away from this post, like I usually do when other non sense arises. So my question is for Keith, Vibrant, and Winnow. What does your dogs look like?


its not about the look of the dog, its about the lack of health testing and so on.
The dog looks nice.

but Roxy has been preaching her believes on this forum like I said before 



roxy25 said:


> if your bitch is not OFA on hips the its not FULLY health tested PERIOD
> 
> Im sorry but UKC is flawed. I don't see how you can compare the two within standard poodles. UKC you can get a CH with out other poodles EVER showing up in the ring. AKC this would never happen you have to beat other dogs.


its funny to see people having such believes witch is fine, then go 180 in the other direction. Then maybe its time to give other people a break 
Since she is doing the exact same thing as the others.

You could say that Roxy was buying from a BYB who shows.
But this is common practice in europe to just do hips and nothing else.
And not considered BYB.

But as roxy has said before she feel that people who do this are not worth buying from but she has obviously changed her mind.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Winnow said:


> Sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> I like your pup thats not the issue, I am just saying that this is something that you would tell other people to stay away from.
> 
> ...


I have my reason to what I post on PF, half of the people on here want puppies or dogs for PETS only. I would hate for them to go to a breeder that does not health test and then they dog comes out sick later on in life. 

I am taking MY OWN risks on the dogs I buy,would I recommend this breeder to others? probably not if they want Gurantee on health. If your so interested in the health call the breeder do some research LIKE I HAVE. You know where Enzo came from its not big news to anyone ( obviously it is news to two members that been on here long enough lol ) . People ask me all the time where did I get Enzo from . I usually say you don't want to buy from his breeder since their is no testing. 

You sit here and say stuff to me but not you dear buddy LOL get a life i don't care to hear non sense from Groupies.


----------



## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

roxy25 said:


> I have my reason to what I post on PF, half of the people on here want puppies or dogs for PETS only. I would hate for them to go to a breeder that does not health test and then they dog comes out sick later on in life.
> 
> I am taking MY OWN risks on the dogs I buy,would I recommend this breeder to others? probably not if they want Gurantee on health. If your so interested in the health call the breeder do some research LIKE I HAVE. You know where Enzo came from its not big news to anyone ( obviously it is news to two members that been on here long enough lol ) . People ask me all the time where did I get Enzo from . I usually say you don't want to buy from his breeder since their is no testing.
> 
> You sit here and say stuff to me but not you dear buddy LOL get a life i don't care to hear non sense from Groupies.


Ok that sounds good.

So are you going to breed this bitch to Enzo ?
so both of them have no background of testing done ?

And then sell to the pet people who don't know what they doing.
That sounds like a plan 

Well I rest my case..


----------



## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

bpk082 said:


> Hi everyone I could not stay away from this post, like I usually do when other non sense arises. So my question is for Keith, Vibrant, and Winnow. What does your dogs look like?


and to answer your question my dog looks exactly like her photos...a Byb mongrel 

...but the thing is I don't sit and preach one thing and do another 

I bought my dog because I was cheap...and I figured I'd make an educated guess has it payed off? Almost she hasn't developed and genetic issue yet... but its clear that she and Roxy's dog have about the same amount of health testing behind them ^_^


----------



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Winnow said:


> Ok that sounds good.
> 
> So are you going to breed this bitch to Enzo ?
> so both of them have no background of testing done ?
> ...


Bravo your so intellegent what would I do with out you :wacko::rolffleyes: thank GOD your not my mentor....


----------



## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Keithsomething said:


> and to answer your question my dog looks exactly like her photos...a Byb mongrel
> 
> ...but the thing is I don't sit and preach one thing and do another
> 
> I bought my dog because I was cheap...and I figured I'd make an educated guess has it payed off? Almost she hasn't developed and genetic issue yet... but its clear that she and Roxy's dog have about the same amount of health testing behind them ^_^


How is that clear? B/c a breeder in Europe didn't post her health testing on an American site?

There is a big difference in being honest and upfront about health testing,etc and claiming your dogs are fully tested and have remarkable conformation when you can't back it up.


----------



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Keithsomething said:


> ...but the thing is I don't sit and preach one thing and do another


But you sure are a Groupie to someone that does the exact same thing lol


----------



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Harley_chik said:


> remarkable conformation when you can't back it up.


Its ok,the same people who claim this will 



> sell to the pet people who don't know what they doing.


LMAO


----------



## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Harley_chik said:


> How is that clear? B/c a breeder in Europe didn't post her health testing on an American site?
> 
> There is a big difference in being honest and upfront about health testing,etc and claiming your dogs are fully tested and have remarkable conformation when you can't back it up.


you're completely right Harley
...find me the health testing heres the PHR links ^_^

Sire

Dam

and be clear to remember I said LITTLE TO NO health testing...

oh so now then you all recant what you're saying about health testing?...thats good to know 

MEOWWWW


----------



## Trillium (Sep 1, 2009)

Though the difference between your dog Keith and Roxy's Enzo is that you have taken the risk for yourself alone. If something happens to your dog you have taken the risk and you yourself will pay for it. On the otherhand if a breeder takes that kind of a risk not only will she pay for it but anyone that has bought on of her puppies in the future. That is a frightening thought as it could mean heartbreak for so many other people.


----------



## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> But you sure are a Groupie to someone that does the exact same thing lol


:O
Thats super personal calling me a groupie I'm lodging a formal complaint
BARB BARB BARB BARB BARB BAR BARB BARB BARB!!!!!! She called me a name >.<


----------



## bpk082 (Feb 3, 2009)

Still, no one answered my question.... and there was research done on the dog's pedigree before it was purchased (B/c we were concerned about health) And how did this conversation come from picking out a name to this? Sound a bit crazy.... I smell jealousy. I would never go on an attack of someones dog based on diffrernt opinion of type for the show ring. Nor would I attack based on unknown information that was never given in the first place in this thread such as health. No dog that we own will ever be bred before any testing is done. Plain and simple. So in all, there is no concern is there?


----------



## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Keithsomething said:


> you're completely right Harley
> ...find me the health testing heres the PHR links ^_^
> 
> Sire
> ...


I repeat, European breeder and American website. If you wanna see testing so bad I suggest you contact the breeder. I recant nothing. An American breeder, or a breeder who markets puppies in America, should do the appropriate health testing. I don't understand why such a breeder wouldn't post results on OFA, but if they don't they should make it available. If Roxy doesn't test this dog before she breeds it (if she even breeds it, it's still a young puppy) then I will most definately dissaprove. If she doesn't make it clear what the dogs health history is, I will dissaprove.


----------



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Trillium said:


> Though the difference between your dog Keith and Roxy's Enzo is that you have taken the risk for yourself alone. If something happens to your dog you have taken the risk and you yourself will pay for it. On the otherhand if a breeder takes that kind of a risk not only will she pay for it but anyone that has bought on of her puppies in the future. That is a frightening thought as it could mean heartbreak for so many other people.


Did you tell You co breeder this LMAO probbaly not O yeah I forgot she is your friend so everything goes out the window since she is your friend ... You guys are making me lmao


----------



## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Keithsomething said:


> :O
> Thats super personal calling me a groupie I'm lodging a formal complaint
> BARB BARB BARB BARB BARB BAR BARB BARB BARB!!!!!! She called me a name >.<


OMG, at least she didn't call you crazy.


----------



## bpk082 (Feb 3, 2009)

Still, no one answered my question.... and there was research done on the dog's pedigree before it was purchased (B/c we were concerned about health) And how did this conversation come from picking out a name to this? Sound a bit crazy.... I smell jealousy. I would never go on an attack of someones dog based on diffrernt opinion of type for the show ring. Nor would I attack based on unknown information that was never given in the first place in this thread such as health. No dog that we own will ever be bred before any testing is done. Plain and simple. So in all, there is no concern is there?


----------



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Harley_chik said:


> I repeat, European breeder and American website. If you wanna see testing so bad I suggest you contact the breeder. I recant nothing. An American breeder, or a breeder who markets puppies in America, should do the appropriate health testing. I don't understand why such a breeder wouldn't post results on OFA, but if they don't they should make it available. If Roxy doesn't test this dog before she breeds it (if she even breeds it, it's still a young puppy) then I will most definately dissaprove. If she doesn't make it clear what the dogs health history is, I will dissaprove.


If I bought a dog in the USA it would be OFA for sure. 

I love how everyone is saying we breedin ENNN ZO to this pup I am sorry I don't think about breeding unlike some on here. If this was true Enzo would have had some litters before he was 2 years old :wacko: cough cough


----------



## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

HEY I never said crazy 
but lets commend me for not making anymore suggestions like that ^_^
and it really isn't nice to call people names Roxy...Miss Manners would never approve of a lady acting in such a way ...tsk tsk v.v;

lets stay on topic
her dog doesn't have much health testing behind it which is one thing she harps on ALL THE TIME as do you... health testing one generation isn't going to tell you whats hiding behind door number 3 

Thats just a man behind the curtain IGNORE HIM IGNOREEEEEEEEEEE HIMMMMMMMMMMM -cough-


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## bpk082 (Feb 3, 2009)

right on Roxy!!!


----------



## bpk082 (Feb 3, 2009)

Keithsomething said:


> HEY I never said crazy
> but lets commend me for not making anymore suggestions like that ^_^
> 
> lets stay on topic
> ...




Still, no one answered my question.... and there was research done on the dog's pedigree before it was purchased (B/c we were concerned about health) And how did this conversation come from picking out a name to this? Sound a bit crazy.... I smell jealousy. I would never go on an attack of someones dog based on diffrernt opinion of type for the show ring. Nor would I attack based on unknown information that was never given in the first place in this thread such as health. No dog that we own will ever be bred before any testing is done. Plain and simple. So in all, there is no concern is there? 


Thanks for responding hahahahaha...


----------



## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

bpk082 said:


> Still, no one answered my question.... and there was research done on the dog's pedigree before it was purchased (B/c we were concerned about health) And how did this conversation come from picking out a name to this? Sound a bit crazy.... I smell jealousy. I would never go on an attack of someones dog based on diffrernt opinion of type for the show ring. Nor would I attack based on unknown information that was never given in the first place in this thread such as health. No dog that we own will ever be bred before any testing is done. Plain and simple. So in all, there is no concern is there?
> 
> 
> Thanks for responding hahahahaha...


ok random stranger
-grabs my thread police badge...-


----------



## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Keithsomething said:


> HEY I never said crazy
> but lets commend me for not making anymore suggestions like that ^_^
> and it really isn't nice to call people names Roxy...Miss Manners would never approve of a lady acting in such a way ...tsk tsk v.v;
> 
> ...



Once again, you don't know that her dog doesn't have much testing behind it, do you? You are making unfounded statements. The topic was Roxy is getting a puppy. Perhaps you should stay on topic.


----------



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Keithsomething said:


> HEY I never said crazy
> but lets commend me for not making anymore suggestions like that ^_^
> 
> lets stay on topic
> ...


If you where on topic I was looking for a NAME and showing off my new puppy. The health stuff came up because you and winnow are groupies and trying to give me a taste of my own medicine ( again service annoncement I can care less what you and winnow think or say)


----------



## bpk082 (Feb 3, 2009)

Keithsomething said:


> ok random stranger
> -grabs my thread police badge...-


Um... I'm the owner of Enzo Roxy is my sister.


----------



## bpk082 (Feb 3, 2009)

So once again.... Keith
Still, no one answered my question.... and there was research done on the dog's pedigree before it was purchased (B/c we were concerned about health) And how did this conversation come from picking out a name to this? Sound a bit crazy.... I smell jealousy. I would never go on an attack of someones dog based on diffrernt opinion of type for the show ring. Nor would I attack based on unknown information that was never given in the first place in this thread such as health. No dog that we own will ever be bred before any testing is done. Plain and simple. So in all, there is no concern is there?


----------



## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Well roxy evidently you do care or you wouldn't still be posting in response ^_^
so medicine ADMINISTERED ^_^

random lady...your paste button is stuck
I answered your question my dog looks like **** and may die tomorrow...but I'm not breeding her  ...and she again may or may not have more health testing done than you're new import ^_^ 

AND its not unfounded Harley prove that she DOES have health testing you can't because theres no evidence that she does but there seems to be some that she doesn't...HMMMMMM perplexing 

and again roxy...stop calling me a groupie you're swaying into libel now seeing as thats defamatory ((or unfounded...))
^_^

-ADIEU-


----------



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Keithsomething said:


> Well roxy evidently you do care or you wouldn't still be posting in response ^_^
> so medicine ADMINISTERED ^_^
> 
> random lady...your paste button is stuck
> ...


Yes I reply because I am bored lol you guys are my entertainment for tonight.

If I got a dog from OFA stock you two would still have something to say since your being spoon fed. No matter what dog i get it wont matter lol


----------



## bpk082 (Feb 3, 2009)

Keithsomething said:


> Well roxy evidently you do care or you wouldn't still be posting in response ^_^
> so medicine ADMINISTERED ^_^
> 
> random lady...your paste button is stuck
> ...



I just told you who I was... so your now personally attacking me calling me random lady. I don't know you but yet do I call you random?

And for one thing your acting like a over grown child. And no Its not stuck, but your mind seems to be stuck on not comprehending the fact that I said.....

Still, no one answered my question.... and there was research done on the dog's pedigree before it was purchased (B/c we were concerned about health) And how did this conversation come from picking out a name to this? Sound a bit crazy.... I smell jealousy. I would never go on an attack of someones dog based on different opinion of type for the show ring. Nor would I attack based on unknown information that was never given in the first place in this thread such as health. No dog that we own will ever be bred before any testing is done. Plain and simple. So in all, there is no concern is there?


----------



## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)




----------



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Keithsomething said:


> Well roxy evidently you do care or you wouldn't still be posting in response ^_^
> so medicine ADMINISTERED ^_^
> 
> random lady...your paste button is stuck
> ...


saying the dog has no health testing is libel I can get the breeder involved if you want ?


----------



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Fluffyspoos said:


>


LOL sink time thanks Fluffy we need this in my thread.


----------



## Trillium (Sep 1, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


>


I do admire your taste in sinks lol!!!


----------



## bpk082 (Feb 3, 2009)

As for groupie... at least my complaint is on merit not a random adjective that was not constantly repeated. But if your your going to take offense to groupie (rolling eyes) I guess I do have the right be offened that you called me random. lmao.


----------



## Trillium (Sep 1, 2009)

Oh goodness Roxy does that make me your groupie because I agree with you in our taste in sinks????


----------



## bpk082 (Feb 3, 2009)

Trillium said:


> I do admire your taste in sinks lol!!!


I agree, its sad no one can celebrate a new puppy on here.. shame on those who turn this fun/happy time into something so negative.


----------



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Trillium said:


> Oh goodness Roxy does that make me your groupie because I agree with you in our taste in sinks????


Yes you are a sink Groupie now too LOL


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

I am into these


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

I HAD TOO! Sorry but this one is crazy


----------



## bpk082 (Feb 3, 2009)

lmao!!!!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Olie said:


> I HAD TOO! Sorry but this one is crazy


LMAO OMG !

here are more same artist 









I wish hibiscus sounded cooler because I would name her Hibiscus


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## bpk082 (Feb 3, 2009)

I want one!!!!! lol


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

Congrats to you Roxy!!! I know that you have been carefully looking for a very long time Your new baby is just precious. I am excited for you ...


----------



## bpk082 (Feb 3, 2009)

Winnow said:


> And the dam has a previous litter who had red in it. But guess what that red has now faded to apricot.


Ok.... color is the only thing we should worry about then? 



> But as roxy has said before she feel that people who do this are not worth buying from but she has obviously changed her mind.



Our mind was not changed. We just feel most of the red/apricot get there act together. With all of these pet breeders around who wants to buy from them Unless a diamond in the rough comes around which is rare. It took us 2 years to find Enzo.


----------



## *skye* (Oct 17, 2009)

Here's what I want to know.....

Before this bitch is bred (to anyone) is she going to be fully health tested? 

If you do decide to breed to Enzo will you test them both?

What if the tests come back with poor results?? Spay?


----------



## bpk082 (Feb 3, 2009)

*skye* said:


> Here's what I want to know.....
> 
> Before this bitch is bred (to anyone) is she going to be fully health tested?
> 
> ...


No dog that we own will ever be bred before any testing is done. Plain and simple. So in all, there is no concern is there?


----------



## Trillium (Sep 1, 2009)

Just thought I'd clarify a few things. I googled the definition of a few words that were posted here and thought I'd share them with all of you. 

groupie [ˈgruːpɪ]
n
(Music / Pop Music) Slang an ardent fan of a celebrity, esp a pop star: originally, often a girl who followed the members of a pop group on tour in order to have sexual relations with them
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003


----------



## Trillium (Sep 1, 2009)

ran·dom (rndm)
adj.
1. Having no specific pattern, purpose, or objective: random movements. See Synonyms at chance.
2. Mathematics & Statistics Of or relating to a type of circumstance or event that is described by a probability distribution.
3. Of or relating to an event in which all outcomes are equally likely, as in the testing of a blood sample for the presence of a substance.
Idiom:
at random
Without a governing design, method, or purpose; unsystematically: chose a card at random from the deck.
[From at random, by chance, at great speed, from Middle English randon, speed, violence, from Old French, from randir, to run, of Germanic origin.]
random·ly adv.
random·ness n.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.


----------



## Trillium (Sep 1, 2009)

la·dy (ld)
n. pl. la·dies
1. A well-mannered and considerate woman with high standards of proper behavior.
2.
a. A woman regarded as proper and virtuous.
b. A well-behaved young girl.
3. A woman who is the head of a household.
4. A woman, especially when spoken of or to in a polite way.
5.
a. A woman to whom a man is romantically attached.
b. Informal A wife.
6. Lady Chiefly British A general feminine title of nobility and other rank, specifically:
a. Used as the title for the wife or widow of a knight or baronet.
b. Used as a form of address for a marchioness, countess, viscountess, baroness, or baronetess.
c. Used as a form of address for the wife or widow of a baron.
d. Used as a courtesy title for the daughter of a duke, a marquis, or an earl.
e. Used as a courtesy title for the wife of a younger son of a duke or marquis.
7. Lady The Virgin Mary. Usually used with Our.
8. Slang Cocaine.
[Middle English, mistress of a household, from Old English hlfdige; see dheigh- in Indo-European roots.]
Usage Note: Lady is normally used as a parallel to gentleman to emphasize norms expected in polite society or in situations requiring courtesies: Ladies and gentlemen, your attention please. I believe the lady in front of the counter was here before me. The attributive use of lady, as in lady doctor, is offensive and outdated. When the sex of the person is relevant, the preferred modifier is woman or female. Twice as many members of the Usage Panel in our 1994 survey preferred female and male to woman and man as modifiers in the sentence President Clinton interviewed both ______ and ______ candidates for the position of Attorney General.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.


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## *skye* (Oct 17, 2009)

bpk082 said:


> No dog that we own will ever be bred before any testing is done. Plain and simple. So in all, there is no concern is there?


And if the tests come back with results you don't want?? Then what??


----------



## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

So... who wants to have sexual relations? Anyone? Anybody? I'm pretty famous.


----------



## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Fluffyspoos said:


> So... who wants to have sexual relations? Anyone? Anybody? I'm pretty famous.


That is too funny! I guess he is from the gulf, bubba teeth and all.


----------



## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

bpk082 said:


> Our mind was not changed.



Oh...I didn't know we had Borg on the forum o.o

Resistance is FUTILE


----------



## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

Roxy,

Sorry your thread turned into a mess. I hope it's not lost in the bunch but I wanted to say congrats on the beautiful puppy! I always love looking at photos of Enzo and look forward to seeing your puppy grow up.

I generally try to stay out of the heated breeding debates! I have no opinion on anything related to that..but I do think your dog will be beautiful!











Veggies anyone?


----------



## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

Why not tell us then what testing was done on the parents? 

If they did more then hips I am sure you would have told us by now


----------



## taxtell (Sep 17, 2009)

Poor Roxy, her sweet puppy thread turned into this:


----------



## Mandycasey'smom (Jan 3, 2009)

Congrats on the puppy. Looks like you did your research and found one you like.
Can't wait to see pics of her growing.


----------



## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Aidan said:


> Roxy,
> 
> Sorry your thread turned into a mess. I hope it's not lost in the bunch but I wanted to say congrats on the beautiful puppy! I always love looking at photos of Enzo and look forward to seeing your puppy grow up.
> 
> ...


Your veggiest are quite suggestive.

Let's go to the parade instead.


----------



## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Wow this thread it LMAO!! pictures and all.....

The maturity level has gone to 0....


----------



## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I don't know what you're talking about, I am _very_ mature.


----------



## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

hehehe... I love that one haha..
I wasn't talking about the introduction of the pictures....


----------



## McSandd (Apr 30, 2010)

Hey Roxy,

I just wanted to say congrats.... 

Also, was thinking that you should go pick up your puppy  What a fantastic trip that would be! Her house looks like it has come out of a story book


----------



## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

jak said:


> The maturity level has gone to 0....


oh my gosh I completely agree name calling is terribad -shakes head- :hammer:


----------



## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Keithsomething said:


> oh my gosh I completely agree name calling is terribad -shakes head- :hammer:


Are you actually serious ?


----------



## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

jak said:


> Are you actually serious ?


quite?
I'm always serious :[]


----------



## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

I don't see the need for sarcasm, or immature comments really :smow:
In case it was forgotten, this is a thread about the excitement of Roxy getting her new puppy....


----------



## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

I wasn't being sarcastic v.v;

and from fellow commenters comments...I'm far from the only immature one here :marchmellow:

but I will admit my immaturity, and perhaps work towards having it fixed in the future


----------



## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Keith, do not take me for a fool, for I am not. 
If you want to play games, go back to your creche.


----------



## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

I wouldn't call anyone a fool 
I don't play games...
and I hadn't forgotten anything...


----------



## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

jak;111693 said:


> I don't see the need for sarcasm, or immature comments really :smow:
> In case it was forgotten, this is a thread about the excitement of Roxy getting her new puppy....



I am in agreement with Jak.. This is so unproductive and causes only ill feelings. Someone purchased a bitch they like and feel will be a positive addition to thier future breeding program.. Just let it be.
MHO


----------



## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Keithsomething said:


> I wouldn't call anyone a fool
> I don't play games...
> and I hadn't forgotten anything...


again..... seriously ?

I actually like to have intellectual conversations, and not play silly little games, and not mess with people's heads. If you have a point, just come out with it, and not mess around and play games -and do not lie to me and say that you are not, as we've been through this before, and not just in this thread.

This is really getting tiresome...


----------



## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

jak said:


> again..... seriously ?
> 
> I actually like to have intellectual conversations, and not play silly little games, and not mess with people's heads. If you have a point, just come out with it, and not mess around and play games -and do not lie to me and say that you are not, as we've been through this before, and not just in this thread.
> 
> This is really getting tiresome...


I think my point was pretty clear...a health tested background is important for breeding stock

now...until becoming an immature pest becomes against the rules of this forum... I'll still be here not tired a bit

but seriously though I wasn't nor would I call you a fool...or anyone else for that matter, I can't judge someones intelligence via the internet.


----------



## Spencer (Oct 7, 2009)

Thread closing time, perhaps? This has all gotten very out of hand... I think if you have a problem with anything you should take it directly to the source rather than gum up the mechanism of the forum.

I have no opinion as to the health testing, etc., so this is my unbiased opinion that all of this ridiculousness needs to stop.

I think if anyone has anything else to say it should be in helping Roxy and her sister think of a name for their new puppy. Non sarcastic and non suggestive (towards your personal opinion on her breeding/testing) names.

That being said, I still love Lotus! But Vey is also adorable and I guess a close second!


----------



## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Spencer said:


> Thread closing time, perhaps?


but theres no reason to close it...I haven't gotten nasty and I haven't seen any super personal attacks

a question was asked...then ignored and then ignored numerous times

I don't feel bad and I'll continue to ask the same question

What Health testing as been done in this dogs background?
Roxy is allowed to ask this question of ever tom d*ck and harry that walks on here but when its asked of her its said "_OH IN EUROPE THEY DON'T HEALTH TEST THE SAME WAY_" blah blah blah

so nope I'm going to harp now ^_^
and as long I don't get nasty I'm not breaking ANY rules so plan to be on this topic for days...


----------



## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Keithsomething said:


> I think my point was pretty clear...*a health tested background is important for breeding stock*
> 
> now...until becoming an immature pest becomes against the rules of this forum... I'll still be here not tired a bit
> 
> but seriously though I wasn't nor would I call you a fool...or anyone else for that matter, I can't judge someones intelligence via the internet.


Wow.... hypocrite much ? I don't see you taking barbs at you know who...

Lol.. Roxy neither confirmed nor denied.. you know nothing about her plans with this dog... you know absolutely nothing, except for having seen a few pictures of this dog, and a very weird french website.... 

:clap2:

LOL... and I find this very funny how this dog is pretty much, much better quality than most reds I have seen in the Americas..... 



Spencer, I don't want to see this thread closed.... this just leaves tension... and does not resolve matters, kinda like that Silken thread where I had absolutely no chance to defend myself against some ridiculous allegations.


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## Spencer (Oct 7, 2009)

jak said:


> Spencer, I don't want to see this thread closed.... this just leaves tension... and does not resolve matters, kinda like that Silken thread where I had absolutely no chance to defend myself against some ridiculous allegations.


a) Jak, you didn't need to defend yourself in that thread as you neither said nor did anything wrong... but 

b) to EVERYONE; from what other heated threads on this forum have shown anyone who is watching, there is rarely any resolution to be had after the fact. I don't think many people walk away from the thread feeling happy and fulfilled that their "beef" was resolved, but instead still angry. I think that if the thread were to continue, it would need to go back to its original topic and purpose, and not continue in the path it has gone down for what? Eight pages now?

I suggested the thread be closed because people will continue to pick and not go back to what the thread was intended, and in turn, this will just cause more tension and drama in a place where there is none to be had. (Name calling, people? Really?)

My two cents. 

Listen or don't. I'm sure I'll get a sarcastic reply or one that tells me more about the character of some users, regardless. If the thread isn't a lighthearted funny sort of thread, I feel that sarcasm has no place in it, especially if in a serious thread, sarcasm is the only defense you have.

"Sarcasm is the brevity of wit." - and no, I'm not misquoting Shakespeare


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

> and I find this very funny how this dog is pretty much, much better quality than most reds I have seen in the Americas.....


Well, that is just one of the reasons I would import from Europe ANY color if I had the means lane:

If dogs coming from there are so "diseased" than some* top *breeders in CA alone are in some big trouble now _ *NOT* LMAO !!!!! 

Their imports became one of the most famous dogs in a poodle world and some are still producing fabulous and healthy puppies all over the USA :first:

Did Roxy made a calculated risk - of course she did - as much as any other breeder who ever imported a dog from Europe. 

The bottom line is that if she could get a dog from Europe that was fully health tested and *with that quality* as Arctica is and of that pedigree as she is - that she would  

I am sure that she will never breed ANY of her dogs before *full *testing is done and before they are 2 years old and that is *MORE* than many "show breeders" now do in the USA. I will never forget talking to one who NEVER did an EYE check on her Ch bitch who was bred that summer and she even admitted that after I probed and probed !!!!! 

SO - I do not see how could Roxy do "better" than she did by going to Europe since health testing is minimal there for one, second - her color of choice limited her to even lesser number of breeders and third - her puppy is just soooo pretty that I seriously doubt she could find anything like that here- sorry , but it is how it is ... One day perhaps there will be much better red and apricot stock found "around the corner", till then, red breeders will have to resort to the best venue they can - some doing "line breeding", some breeding to blacks , some importing superior stock from other continents. 

Am I bias to European dogs - yes I am and with a good reason


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

OK... I'm going to step into this thread to remind everyone that if they have personal gripes with someone to please take it to the private messages. 

I agree that this thread has become an uncomfortable place to be for most everyone involved, and I will bring it to Yung's attention if necessary. If he asks me to close it to snuff the flames, I will do so...

Thank you and have a nice day...

Barb


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Jak I'm far from the hypocrite on this thread...I was pointing out that AFTER MONTHS AND MONTHS of hearing toxy post on all these different threads how health testing was her most important thing and if you don't post on OFA YOU'RE a crapp breeder she choose to buy from someone who doesn't


and I'll say it again I won't apologize for what I say, I've said that before but I still stand by it if you think clearly prior to posting and make sure you mean what you say never apologize ^_^

oh and her dog is cream from a white/cream/black background so saying its better quality than most reds in the states is true but is it better quality than most blacks and whites?

Breeder


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

This thread has been reinstated to the public forum. 

Please keep any additional postings to a civil, respectful tone. The administrator, Yung, and I have agreed that I will watch for any infraction of the posted rules and will make a determination of action if the rules aren't adhered to. 

Because this is a public forum, with many individual personalities and viewpoints, the potential for conflicts is always present. Please do your best to keep to the topic and use private messaging for off-topic questions or issues. If anyone has a complaint they wish to make, you can use the "report a post" feature which will send an email message to Yung and myself, or you can send a private message to either or both of us if you wish.

Please understand that just because a complaint is lodged does not mean that a thread will be closed or moved or a member banned - The moderator and/or administrator will have the final decision on what action is taken and will be determined by the severity of any infractions. 

Be aware that this forum belongs to all of its members... Not to one more than another... please strive to make it a pleasant place to visit and discuss poodles!

Thanks for your time.

Barb


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Keithsomething said:


> Jak I'm far from the hypocrite on this thread...I was pointing out that AFTER MONTHS AND MONTHS of hearing toxy post on all these different threads how health testing was her most important thing and if you don't post on OFA YOU'RE a crapp breeder she choose to buy from someone who doesn't
> 
> 
> and I'll say it again I won't apologize for what I say, I've said that before but I still stand by it if you think clearly prior to posting and make sure you mean what you say never apologize ^_^
> ...


Keith, the only reason I called you a hypocrite,was for you attaching on to the fact that you couldn't believe Roxy was going to breed a dog from an* un health tested background...*
When,

1) That's not actually true....
2) When in fact there is someone else on here that has done exactly the same thing 
and continues to do so... with more than one dog... 

Before you come out with outlandish statements, would you please find some proof to back it up ? I do not see why people had to try and find the smallest fault in Roxy in this thread, it was like many people were eager to find something, and were quite enjoying the fact too. Seems rather childish to me.

And if I remember it to be true... Roxy would only say if you don't test while breeding you're a crap breeder.... not what some people are trying to spin.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

jak said:


> Seems rather childish to me.


This has been a trend with several forum members - and not only with this thread, and not only with roxy... I remember another forum member getting slammed for the puppy she chose to import. It wasn't fun then and it's not fun now.

Let's move on, shall we?

Barb


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

jak;112747 said:


> Keith, the only reason I called you a hypocrite,was for you attaching on to the fact that you couldn't believe Roxy was going to breed a dog from an* un health tested background...*
> When,
> 
> 1) That's not actually true....
> ...



Ok Jak and Keith:

And.. your point is ?? The purchase and import have been consumated... The puppy is now with Roxy and is there to stay and be used by her in her future breeding program. Whatever anyone says is not going to change anything so why continue and harp on this issue ?

There are so many other topics we can all discuss , contribute to, and enjoy here , without massacring one another. Why would you guys want to harp on and rehash the same (old) issues. Just let it go and move on..

Jak your photos of Saffy are lovely why not concentrate on talking about them.. Keith your contributions have also been nice so why not move on to new topics.. Lets just leave Roxy alone and let her enjoy her new puppy. 

If indeed Roxy made a bad judgement as you guys feel she may have in aquiring this puppy than it is her business. So far she is enjoying her puppy and is proud to own her.. let it be.. 

Sorry but I just had to interject and say something about this back and forth fencing that can leave some with really uneasy feelings.

Life's too short.. lets move on....


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

plumcrazy said:


> This has been a trend with *several* forum members - and not only with this thread, and not only with roxy... I remember another forum member getting slammed for the puppy she chose to import. It wasn't fun then and it's not fun now.
> 
> Let's move on, shall we?
> 
> ...


Well, agreed. 
My last post was just there to defend my view, when I had not seen this post due to the forum being closed.

I also wanted to say Ora, i did not feel Roxy made a bad judgement, as implied in your above post


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

jak said:


> Our memories must be different....


I don't believe our memories are different at all, jak - just the perception of them by each other. You know what they say... There's your truth, my truth and then the real truth which is usually somewhere in between. Peace...

Barb


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

plumcrazy said:


> I don't believe our memories are different at all, jak - just the perception of them by each other. You know what they say... There's your truth, my truth and then the real truth which is usually somewhere in between. Peace...
> 
> Barb


Agreed then 

I'll move on


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> Ok I will let you guys finally see my girl since I might be getting her this weekend  I am so excited
> 
> She has no name ( because I can't think of one ) But she was a doll from the start. I really was not looking for an import but this is what happens when you spend all day on the comp looking at import kennels lol
> 
> ...




First off, she's adorable! 

Second thing, she's over stacked in the pic and some people overstack pups with lots of angles. It just happens.

Third, what the heck is wrong with people trying to "diss" on your new pup Roxy?? lol Its not there dog, not going to be bred to one of there dogs and they will prob never see the dog unless they attend a show in Cali. So Blah blah to them! 

If she pass's her health testing when its time, then you'll use a complimenting male to breed her too. If not, Im sure you'll spay her and she'll be a pet. Its simple. I know Roxy enough to say she know's what to do. If she spoke to the breeder, did her research and decided she wanted to move forward then thats great for her! 

So....CONGRATS on your new baby girl Roxy and please keep emailing me pic's as you get them. She's gorgeous!


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_Oh my goodness, she's so pretty. Congratulations Roxy! _


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

VERY nice puppy indeed and big congratulations. Enjoy her.. She seems to love to stack and show herself even at this very young age.
I love when p uppies stack naturally and have the look at me attitude it gives them so much more advantage in the ring than other dogs who just do wahtever they are told to do but dont show love for the ring. This puppy I think will love to show just by how she allows herself to be stacked. 
Again congratulations to Roxy .


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## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

So adorable - Congrats !!!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

plumcrazy said:


> This has been a trend with several forum members - and not only with this thread, and not only with roxy... I remember another forum member getting slammed for the puppy she chose to import. It wasn't fun then and it's not fun now.
> 
> Let's move on, shall we?
> 
> Barb


If you wanted this thread to move on Barb why was the thread deleted and then brought back to life ????? What you just said really does not make sense , since reopening this thread people are still fighting 

Yet you allow it because you are friends with arreau, keith, winnow etc..

I guess only the intelligent people on here understand my posts and know exactly what I mean in each of my posts, I have posted in the passed. 

You guys can say anything you want because I am not bothered by you comments I am not going to pretend I am a victim on here like some members have in the passed and are still acting like a victim in new threads lol 

This is my last post in this thread since I made a new thread with pictures good night.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> If you wanted this thread to move on Barb why was the thread deleted and then brought back to life ????? What you just said really does not make sense , since reopening this thread people are still fighting
> 
> Yet you allow it because you are friends with arreau, keith, winnow etc..
> 
> ...


Roxy the reason the thread was reopened is because this isn't a Bijjou thread it should NEVER have been removed...

AND there isn't any continuing fighting...well other than you're backhanded comment about intelligence when really...you aren't one to be judging anyones intelligence >.>

Drop it, you were asked a point blank question...you refused to answer it let it go enjoy your dog and just forget about this thread the end :hammer:


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> If you wanted this thread to move on Barb why was the thread deleted and then brought back to life ????? What you just said really does not make sense , since reopening this thread people are still fighting


The thread was never deleted, it was simply moved until Yung and I could visit about it. The little bit of tension (or "fighting" as you termed it) pretty much ended after the first couple of posts after the re-introduction of this thread - Yung and I have faith in the maturity of most of the forum members to keep the thread moving in the right direction. If there are any problems in the future - we'll deal with them at that time.



roxy25 said:


> Yet you allow it because you are friends with arreau, keith, winnow etc..


You make it sound like it's a bad thing that I have friends! :lol: I can assure you that one can never have too many real, true friends! Actually, until I saw this post, I rather considered you my friend as well... has that changed? Also, I "allow" nothing - Yung moved the thread back into the public forum after we had our discussion on Monday.



roxy25 said:


> I guess only the intelligent people on here understand my posts and know exactly what I mean in each of my posts, I have posted in the passed.


We have many intelligent people on this forum! I count myself as one of them!  I'm confident that you're right that we all understand your posts and are fully cognizant of the meaning of the posts you made in the past.



roxy25 said:


> You guys can say anything you want because I am not bothered by you comments I am not going to pretend I am a victim on here like some members have in the passed and are still acting like a victim in new threads lol


Terrific!!  You know what they say about "sticks and stones"! Because of my age and personality, I rarely let words bother me, but not everyone is as unconcerned about what other people say about them as I am. I actually have witnessed some members being rather victimized in the past, but I agree that this status doesn't apply to you!



roxy25 said:


> This is my last post in this thread since I made a new thread with pictures good night.


Good night!! Or good morning, since I didn't see this post until now!

Have fun with your new puppy!

Barb


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## Administrator (Sep 16, 2009)

This thread was originally moved on Friday because a few people reported the thread to me and as is custom, when I do not have time to view an entire thread, we will move it out of the public until we have that chance. After reviewing it over the weekend, the decision was made to move it back as Barb has stated.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Keithsomething said:


> Roxy the reason the thread was reopened is because this isn't a Bijjou thread it should NEVER have been removed...


WOW your a mod now ?:doh::doh: 



> Drop it, you were asked a point blank question...you refused to answer it let it go enjoy your dog and just forget about this thread the end :hammer:


You can always PM me ... and again this was not the topic of the thread so you guys should DROP it. I don't have to drop anything since I am asking for names and not your opinions ...


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## CelticKitti (Jul 1, 2010)

She is stunning!! I hope you enjoy her, but I know you will! Mia is turning 1 next week... oh how I miss the little puppy she was, but not the potty accidents!

Here are some names from Mia's list I obviously didn't choose
Genevieve, Violet, Phoenix, Jade, Crystal, Zoe, Gypsy, Lilac, Mystic, Penelope, Diva, Breeze


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## *skye* (Oct 17, 2009)

This is so freaking ridiculous...seriously.

Roxy--your pup isn't health tested and you are up peoples asses all the damn time about health testing. Hello pot.....it's the kettle calling.

I just can't believe the way this bull**** thread got completely turned around. Apparently Roxy, no one is allowed to call you out on the same thing that you call people out on over and over and over again. When you do it's completely acceptable, when someone else does it (or you think that they have) then it is an ongoing battle of epic proportions. If you can't handle it when someone does the same to you then perhaps you should either (a) buy from tested proven stock or (b) keep quiet so you don't look like a total hypocrite when you do something like this.


I am so completely over this so-called forum. This is crazy. I feel better for having gotten that off my chest though. The truth is you make me NEVER want to own a poodle because apparently it brings TEH CRAZIES into your house.

Good luck to all of you. Sane people (and you must know who you are)...get the hell out of here. It's stupid, hurtful, immature, and totally unproductive.

And with that I bid you all a somewhat fond adieu.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

*skye* said:


> This is so freaking ridiculous...seriously.
> 
> I am so completely over this so-called forum. This is crazy. I feel better for having gotten that off my chest though. The truth is you make me NEVER want to own a poodle because apparently it brings TEH CRAZIES into your house.
> 
> ...


Skye:
I am so disappointed to read your post.
Suffice it to say that this forum has helped and still does many people, pet owners and would be breeders with thier dogs in regards to grooming, feeding, showing , breeding etc... who come to this forum to share what they have learnt and offer thier help advice and experience to others here who may not be as savvy or knowledgeable about poodles and dogs in general.
Your concentrating on a SINGLE THREAD and not looking at the total picture of what this forum has to offer to others INCLUDING yourself is sad.

Why are you seeing one thread as shedding total value on the rest of the discussions here and the help many have had from others.

If you feel only ONE thread is enough for you to say ADIEU & classify all members here into sane vs. insane idividuals then I suggest that instead of quitting this forum you continue staying on, but, choose to ignore the threads you do not feel comfortable with, and move on to a more peaceful thread and one that will not creat such volatile feelings you are experiencing due to this topic.
I honestly feel this thread should be closed.. really this is enough. It is so embarrasing to have new members join and see all that is going on here.. Just a darn shame and so unproductive in my opinion.


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

Oy i just finally read through this thread. 

Nothing to do with Roxy and her pup (congrats) 

But i know on other forums i'm on several rules always have stood that make things IMO more pleasent. 

1- no critique unless asked. 

If someone's posting a pic unless your given the "please critique" you don't break down that pictures good or bad points, you don't get into your thoughts on what's in the picture or waht the person is doing... you don't critique. Period. 

it has allowed people to post pics of their new x y z and get the "wow it's cute- love the color- congrats" posts with out the "omg why would you do THAT?"


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

*skye* said:


> This is so freaking ridiculous...seriously.
> 
> Roxy--your pup isn't health tested and you are up peoples asses all the damn time about health testing. Hello pot.....it's the kettle calling.


Ummm, you need to get your facts sorted. I would suggest either pm'ing Roxy, or doing some research.



*skye* said:


> I just can't believe the way this bull**** thread got completely turned around. Apparently Roxy, no one is allowed to call you out on the same thing that you call people out on over and over and over again. When you do it's completely acceptable, when someone else does it (or you think that they have) then it is an ongoing battle of epic proportions. If you can't handle it when someone does the same to you then perhaps you should either (a) buy from tested proven stock or (b) keep quiet so you don't look like a total hypocrite when you do something like this.


Again, you need to get your facts sorted. This puppy is not from untested background, unlike some other people on here. Also, I only remember Roxy criticising when people were *breeding* untested dogs..... :wacko:



*skye* said:


> I am so completely over this so-called forum. This is crazy. I feel better for having gotten that off my chest though. The truth is you make me NEVER want to own a poodle because apparently it brings TEH CRAZIES into your house.


The only reason it brings the crazies into your house, is because you read this thread....



*skye* said:


> Good luck to all of you. Sane people (and you must know who you are)...get the hell out of here. It's stupid, hurtful, immature, and totally unproductive.
> 
> And with that I bid you all a somewhat fond adieu.


I feel quite sad that you feel this way... As Ora said, you can pretty easily not read these threads. There are plenty of other threads where people are contributing valuable information to help other users...
Last time I checked, this was the only "heated" thread going....


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## *skye* (Oct 17, 2009)

This isn't the only thread that's completely ridiculous. It's the only thread that's completely ridiculous RIGHT NOW.

And Jak, I feel no need to check my facts. Know why?? I don't care. I don't care if Roxy breeds an untested dog. I don't care if she chooses to breed 42 untested dogs and run a puppy mill. I don't care if every single one of her dogs has hip problems, is blind as a bat, and seizes every time it hears a door bell. I'd feel bad for the dogs and the people that buy them....but I just don't care. What I do care about is that she evades answering a perfectly honest question. Is it health tested. She wouldn't even say what breeder it came from...If there is nothing to hide then answer the questions. And if it's not tested then admit that it's not tested and apologize to the people that you ragged on about lack of testing....because for all she knows those people have already tested or plan on doing so. 

I'll tell you what...everyone talks about groupies and alliances, but I think if you read a few threads back to back there is more than one group of "groupies" and more than one bunch of people with an "alliances". And BTW, how stupid does that sound? What is this "Survivor: The Standard Poodle Edition"? Honestly.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

*skye* said:


> Hello pot.....it's the kettle calling.


LMAO witty much? xDDDD <333

ok back to what I was bout to say...I apologize for coming off so rude to newer people...
I'd hate for anyone to look at my posts and think that I was an annoying :hammer: when I'm not really...hopefully everyone can take a DEEEEP breath and be a bit more polite ((including myself))

Roxy congratulations on your new girl shes beautiful ((and I never called her ugly v.v; )) I'm sure any name you come up with will suit her

oh and *Skye* you shouldn't allow our immature bickering scare you away! we get along...sometimes o.o


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

You know quite honestly this whole conversation makes me sick to my stomach.
Skye how can you be SO CRUEL as to say you DO NOT CARE if a poodle seizes, has dysplastic hips, and goes blind.

Where is all this ANGER and BITTERNESS emmanating from? Is it because someone refuses to reply to your questions?? So what ?!
People have choices and are allowed not to respond to certain posts or questions ,so if you see she does not respond.. just let it go and/or PM her.
I dont know what your beef is with Roxy and quite frankly I do NOT care to know as it is non of my business but I would step forward when you take your anger on the breed I and others LOVE and for which we all gather here for. Your cruel statements are shocking to me. What do innocent puppies's welfare have to do with your anger toward Roxy?????
Shame on you !


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

For someone who doesn’t care, you ask some weird questions …



*skye* said:


> And if the tests come back with results you don't want?? Then what??





*skye* said:


> Here's what I want to know.....
> 
> Before this bitch is bred (to anyone) is she going to be fully health tested?
> 
> ...


Answer:



bpk082 said:


> ...and there was research done on the dog's pedigree before it was purchased (B/c we were concerned about health) And how did this conversation come from picking out a name to this? Sound a bit crazy.... I smell jealousy. I would never go on an attack of someones dog based on different opinion of type for the show ring. Nor would I attack based on unknown information that was never given in the first place in this thread such as health. No dog that we own will ever be bred before any testing is done. Plain and simple. So in all, there is no concern is there? ]






*skye* said:


> This isn't the only thread that's completely ridiculous. It's the only thread that's completely ridiculous RIGHT NOW.


That’s what I said 



*skye* said:


> And Jak, I feel no need to check my facts. Know why?? I don't care. I don't care if Roxy breeds an untested dog. I don't care if she chooses to breed 42 untested dogs and run a puppy mill. I don't care if every single one of her dogs has hip problems, is blind as a bat, and seizes every time it hears a door bell. I'd feel bad for the dogs and the people that buy them....but I just don't care.


WOW!



*skye* said:


> What I do care about is that she evades answering a perfectly honest question.





roxy25 said:


> You can always PM me ...





*skye* said:


> Is it health tested.





roxy25 said:


> You can always PM me ...





*skye* said:


> She wouldn't even say what breeder it came from...
> .


She was waiting until she got the puppy before she was telling, but someone already divulged who it was.



*skye* said:


> If there is nothing to hide then answer the questions.





roxy25 said:


> You can always PM me ...





*skye* said:


> And if it's not tested then admit that it's not tested and apologize to the people that you ragged on about lack of testing....because for all she knows those people have already tested or plan on doing so.


As I already said, did you miss that ?



jak said:


> Again, you need to get your facts sorted. This puppy is not from untested background, unlike some other people on here. Also, I only remember Roxy criticising when people were *breeding* untested dogs..... :wacko:





*skye* said:


> I'll tell you what...everyone talks about groupies and alliances, but I think if you read a few threads back to back there is more than one group of "groupies" and more than one bunch of people with an "alliances". And BTW, how stupid does that sound? What is this "Survivor: The Standard Poodle Edition"? Honestly.


I think this sums up the groupies and alliances….thanks FD 



flyingduster said:


> What's this about _the_ 'circle'?? I'm guessing you're meaning Jak, Roxy, Cbrand, and perhaps some others (me too probably!)?? What about _your_ "circle"; you, plum, keith and probably others....??! There is no ONE circle on this forum. We all have 'circles' of closer friends with shared opinions/ethics/etc in life. They are only a problem if you make them one, so why are you making them one!??


And just one more time so as to not miss it…



roxy25 said:


> You can always PM me ...


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## *skye* (Oct 17, 2009)

:doh:

Riiight. Jak--I don't care. 

Here's the reason I'm quitting. This is the PM Roxy sent me to I guess try and make me stop having the balls to say what other people are thinking. :bird:


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_OK...are we all done yet?

I keep coming here to see if there is anything useful being posted but obviously it has become nothing more than an argument between several people so I will move on to more productive threads.

WHEW!_


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Yep... I think this thread has not only run its course - it went seriously off-track. 

:closed_2:


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