# Puppy snubbing kibble?



## asuk (Jan 6, 2017)

Hello

Milo (in my best laid out plans) should be on a daytime kibble and dinner time raw diet. He was weaned off raw at his breeder though he did refuse it when we picked him up due to just stress.

Fast forward 1.5 weeks. He won't eat dry kibble, he did for a couple of days hen I suppose it's my fault, I spoil him. He is currently on wellness small breed puppy. But if I wet it and add a topper, usually a hint of tripe juice,he will eat some but not his 'recommended' amount. He free feeds but never licked his bowl clean.

For his evening meal, he get coarsely ground beef & chicken meat,muscle meat, organ, bone and a bit of tripe. He will lick his bowl clean.

When I put out his kibble for breakfast, same cycle repeats.

I am trying to get him to eat dry kibble. If I am firm, will be just accepts that morning meal is dry kibble?

I am not 100% confident in my raw feeding skills. He doesn't get other stuff like yoghurt, veggies, etc. He does get a drop of fish oil in his raw food. 

Thoughts? Thanks!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

My question is why you are trying to combine a commercial with a home prepared diet? I would think you might be better off choosing one or the other. I haven't tried, but I am pretty sure that now that I home cook for my dogs they would think kibble was a pretty stupid thing to go ahead and eat. The way I think of it, it would be like trying to convince BF that something like soylent green was as good to eat as a real steak dinner.


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## asuk (Jan 6, 2017)

lily cd re said:


> My question is why you are trying to combine a commercial with a home prepared diet? I would think you might be better off choosing one or the other. I haven't tried, but I am pretty sure that now that I home cook for my dogs they would think kibble was a pretty stupid thing to go ahead and eat. The way I think of it, it would be like trying to convince BF that something like soylent green was as good to eat as a real steak dinner.


I am not 100% confident I am providing him with enough nutritional needs with raw since I am still learning about raw. I feel the kibble can somewhat 'fill in the blank nutrionally! If he is already an adult, I don't think I mind it so much. I also think perhaps when I do need to board him, I am not sure if I can provide raw.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Then maybe just kibble until he is grown?

Let me add to my thinking on that statement. If you only feed kibble once a day and are seeking to ensure a nutritionally adequate diet and your raw is not nutritionally complete for some reason then you still have not fed an adequate diet because the amount of kibble won't be a day's full portion for the size and age of the dog. I would either make sure you are doing complete nutrition through kibble or through raw. That said kibble is much easier if you may need to board your pup at some point in time. I would still be feeding a commercial diet (kibble) were it not for some food intolerances among my three dogs that leave me with a very limited ingredients list that satisfies all of their needs.


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## rj16 (Jan 30, 2017)

I completely understand your thought process. Even for an adult dog I find the thought of balancing a diet quite daunting. There is so much conflicting information out there, in addition to fear mongering. For now my solution has been to feed what I feel is the best kibble, one that I trust the manufacturer of, that contains good ingredients and that my dog eats it happily. 

But you can't blame Milo for holding out for the yummy meat! He is a smart cookie and knows there is a tastier alternative.


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## Muggles (Mar 14, 2015)

I feed kibble in the morning and home cooked for dinner (occasionally freeze dried raw instead). I bought software to help provide balanced home cooked meals but like you like the back up of the kibble for peace of mind, as well as for emergency situations where other food may be harder to come by. My vet also agreed with this decision. Rory still enjoys his kibble breakfast though so it's not a problem for us. 

Could you try mixing in the topper more so it covers all the kibble? Perhaps you could add yoghurt too to make it more appealing.


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## Charelliby (Jul 18, 2017)

I think your fears about providing a nutritionally balanced home made raw diet are rational. For this reason I buy commercially prepared, nutritionally complete raw diet delivered to me frozen in nugget size pieces which I store in the freezer and simply thaw in a chiller for feeding as and when needed. In the UK, my supplier provides options between kibble and raw - freeze dried raw nuggets are my 'go to' next best option to raw (useful if on the road or on holiday). Maybe this is available where you live? As mentioned by another member, I would try to avoid giving raw for one meal and kibble, or even tinned food for the next meal ..... can upset the dog's GI system. You might find the following site helpful in the enabling you to make decisions about the best choice that you can manage practically and financially:
https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

Hi, I'm new here, but very interested in this thread. I have my first SPoo, who is 1.5 yrs old now, and have been feeding him mixed kibble and raw since the day he came home at 9 weeks. My reasoning is that when traveling I will not be trying to deal with raw food. 

Zephyr gets daily about a cup of grain free kibble and a pound of premixed raw that I buy bulk. That consists of 

20% chicken wings 
28% chicken necks
20% beef heart/tongue mix
8% beef liver
4% beef kidney
5% broccoli
5% spinach
5% celery
5% carrot
For dinner I add a sardine

For breakfast I give him a cup of kibble and 1/3 cup raw mix, he usually eats all the raw and varying amounts of the kibble, rarely very much of it. For dinner he gets whatever kibble is left and 2/3 raw, and he usually cleans up. He just doesn't want to eat much for breakfast. He also gets an occasional raw frozen chicken neck when I have to leave him home alone.

Zephyr is a very picky eater, I have stopped buying chews because he usually won't chew on them. Training is a real challenge because he doesn't like most of the treats, and even when he does condescend to accept one they just aren't motivating for him. He does like toys, but not everything can be trained using toys. If I can make things fun for him he'll work with me, otherwise he checks out and doesn't want to play.

My reasoning about travel may not be valid, I am pretty sure that he will refuse to eat the kibble at all if there is no raw mix with it. I could get dehydrated raw food for travel, but suspect he will not eat that either. Not sure at this point what I will do. We went to visit friends on a farm in Iowa last month, I brought raw food with me since I knew there was a refrigerator available, he ate a very little of it, but otherwise refused food.

Help!


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## rj16 (Jan 30, 2017)

reraven - when we travel my typically happy-to-eat-anything pup becomes 'picky'. I think in reality it's just the stress of travelling. After a few days, as he settled in, he ate more and more. In Monty's case I take it as a sign that he needs some quiet time but otherwise don't fuss over it too much. A disrupted diet for a few days won't hurt him and he will eat if he gets very hungry. I just make sure he at least has the opportunity to eat often.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I too feed both kibble and raw but I feed Molly her raw in the A.M. and put a 'measured' amount of kibble in her bowl to free feed which sometimes there is still some in her bowl at the end of the day! Molly has been fed this way for 5 years and has thrived. She has never starved herself.....when she is hungry, she eats! She was picky as a puppy but I stopped catering to her ( I knew she was healthy of course) and she realized, finally, nothing 'better' was coming! I wanted to make sure she would be fine eating kibble if we are not at home and she is!


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## asuk (Jan 6, 2017)

MollyMuiMa said:


> I too feed both kibble and raw but I feed Molly her raw in the A.M. and put a 'measured' amount of kibble in her bowl to free feed which sometimes there is still some in her bowl at the end of the day! Molly has been fed this way for 5 years and has thrived. She has never starved herself.....when she is hungry, she eats! She was picky as a puppy but I stopped catering to her ( I knew she was healthy of course) and she realized, finally, nothing 'better' was coming! I wanted to make sure she would be fine eating kibble if we are not at home and she is!


This is very good to know! He does free feeds all day long and he eats kibble just not recommended amount. He gets raw for dinner. Thanks!


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## Charelliby (Jul 18, 2017)

reraven123 said:


> Hi, I'm new here, but very interested in this thread.....
> 
> For breakfast I give him a cup of kibble and 1/3 cup raw mix, he usually eats all the raw and varying amounts of the kibble, rarely very much of it.
> Zephyr is a very picky eater, I have stopped buying chews because he usually won't chew on them. Training is a real challenge because he doesn't like most of the treats, and even when he does condescend to accept one they just aren't motivating for him. He does like toys, but not everything can be trained using toys. If I can make things fun for him he'll work with me, otherwise he checks out and doesn't want to play.....
> ...


Apologies for the long post. I have a two year old standard, Dino and, like Zephyr, he doesn't have a large appetite for breakfast and can be a fussy eater. Refusing food, particularly at breakfast, was a frequent event. 

Over time, as I've got to know him, his food preferences and tolerances (keeping a watchful eye on his stools - the window to his GI health), we seem to have hit a winning formula for him.

He is fed a complete raw diet in two meals a day (800g manufacture's recommended amount), unless he has a training class within a couple of hours of the scheduled meal in which case the meal is withheld so that he begins training on an empty stomach. 

On a training-free day his routine: 07:00 small breakfast (266g or thereabouts) with added wild Alaskan salmon oil. I put his food down and release him to eat, then I turn away. If delays eating, as he often does, I ignore it. After 30 seconds or so, he generally eats. If he doesn't begin to eat, I continue to ignore, doing 'jobs' in the same room, then after 15 minutes I quietly remove the food, no big deal and we get on with the day (the aim is not to reinforcement 'food refusal' behaviour). 

I don't worry too much if he refuses to eat breakfast occasionally, when it's the exception rather than the rule. 

Dinner is 19:00 - he has what's left of the 800g daily allowance with a supplement for active dogs. 

During the week he will have raw chewing treats such as turkey or duck neck, duck or chicken wings, green tripe chunks or boiled egg and 'dog' yoghurt. 

Dino does a lot of training. He loved the training treats that I bought. Unfortunately, they wrought havoc with his GI system (smelly, loose, copious stools, flatulence, noisy tummy and evidence of colitis - mucus in the stool). 

It isn't unusual for dogs to react to the additives, preservatives, stabilisers and 'food' components that are used in commercial products. So, with this in mind, I decided to make my own training treats: simple, additive free and cheap. He happily works for his favourites: chicken breast, lamb liver, lamb heart (poached, cooled, cut into treat size, sprayed with virgin olive oil for baking, then slow baked on a low temperature for 40 minutes or so). They freeze for future use and thaw quickly. He also loves fruit (apples and bananas) cut into treat size pieces and baked in a similar way - they also freeze for future use. Raw carrots, broccoli and cauliflower are another favourite for training - large enough sized treats to taste and not choke on, although not so large that he has to stop and chew thereby interrupting the training rhythm. 

Overall, this regime is successful. Dino rarely refuses food, he maintains a good weight, has an excellent body condition, thrives on training and bounces his way through life. Fingers crossed it continues. Apologies again for the lengthy reply, hope you find something useful in it for Zephyr.


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