# Do I need one on one training?



## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

It might be worth exploring. If nothing else, having someone other than you showing Lucy how to handle your dog would get you out of the "meanie" role.

Just be sure you get the right trainer. The one and only home trainer I tried was kind of useless. She had just got her certificate, and whatever she learned hadn't really solidified into a helpful form. She pretty much spent the whole first session scolding me about stuff that wasn't a priority (she literally shook a stick at me after discovering Pogo had carried one into the house) and also terrifying me about Pogo's prey drive without giving me any strategy to deal with it. I stuck with her for one or two more sessions. She never really set goals and benchmarks; she just kind of harangued me about random stuff. I eventually made a lot more progress when I enrolled Pogo in a group class intended to feed into a CGC exam. I made Pogo take the class twice; once with me and then later with my husband while I handled Snarky. So, if you do go with a home trainer, find out what the lesson plan will be for both you and Lucy.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Renn was a jumper when young, especially when one of my daughter came into the room. We jut kept doing the remove hand, look away and when he went into a sit, immediate praise and then petting, on occasion he will start to get up to jump, repeat the ignore and now he immediately sits for the praise. He also gets invited to jump up on occasion, we say ok hug, then he will. He seems to like hug. LOL


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## Fenix&Felix (Oct 21, 2020)

cowpony said:


> It might be worth exploring. If nothing else, having someone other than you showing Lucy how to handle your dog would get you out of the "meanie" role.
> 
> Just be sure you get the right trainer. The one and only home trainer I tried was kind of useless. She had just got her certificate, and whatever she learned hadn't really solidified into a helpful form. She pretty much spent the whole first session scolding me about stuff that wasn't a priority (she literally shook a stick at me after discovering Pogo had carried one into the house) and also terrifying me about Pogo's prey drive without giving me any strategy to deal with it. I stuck with her for one or two more sessions. She never really set goals and benchmarks; she just kind of harangued me about random stuff. I eventually made a lot more progress when I enrolled Pogo in a group class intended to feed into a CGC exam. I made Pogo take the class twice; once with me and then later with my husband while I handled Snarky. So, if you do go with a home trainer, find out what the lesson plan will be for both you and Lucy.


I should say that Lucy not wanting to be mean is due to lack of experience with dogs and maybe some cultural stuff—it helped when I pointed out that she would never allow a human child to jump on her, pull at her clothes, etc., and that this is a safety issue, especially on the stairs.

But I take your point about the perils of hiring unknown trainers—even the right bunch of letters after their name doesn’t guarantee the kind of experience that translates into successful training. Even classes can be weird. Felix’s puppy class at a local training center was great—the first week we were given a course syllabus spelling out each weeks’ training goals, how to’s, and training tips. The 2nd class, titled “basic manners” was run by a very young woman who would send us an email with our week’s homework 3-4 days after the class, waste of money.

Thanks for your response, I will think on this some more!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I will take exception to the idea that certifications (even the right bunch of letters after their name) doesn't translate into successful training. I am a CPDT-KA certified trainer and a CGC evaluator. To get the CPDT-KA I had to log at least 300 hours of training experience as a private trainer and a class instructor. I had to submit a signed attestation statement from (in my case) my vet whom I've know for over 25 years. I also had to agree to use of least intrusive/minimally aversive methods and had to sign my agreement to a professional code of ethics. None of that guarantees that you will like my methods or find me to be an agreeable peraon, but I can promise you with a high degree of certainty that I know what I am doing and that if you do your homework with me there is a very high probability that I can solve your problems. 

cowpony what was the certification that the trainer you found so (correctly) useless? It is very hard to imagine that it was either of the two really rigorous certifications I have knowledge of (CPDT or KPA).


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## Fenix&Felix (Oct 21, 2020)

lily cd re said:


> I will take exception to the idea that certifications (even the right bunch of letters after their name) doesn't translate into successful training. I am a CPDT-KA certified trainer and a CGC evaluator. To get the CPDT-KA I had to log at least 300 hours of training experience as a private trainer and a class instructor. I had to submit a signed attestation statement from (in my case) my vet whom I've know for over 25 years. I also had to agree to use of least intrusive/minimally aversive methods and had to sign my agreement to a professional code of ethics. None of that guarantees that you will like my methods or find me to be an agreeable peraon, but I can promise you with a high degree of certainty that I know what I am doing and that if you do your homework with me there is a very high probability that I can solve your problems.
> 
> cowpony what was the certification that the trainer you found so (correctly) useless? It is very hard to imagine that it was either of the two really rigorous certifications I have knowledge of (CPDT or KPA).


No disrespect intended, and of course, the right certification(s) is probably the first, and most important qualification a trainer has. But I also know that highly credentialed people can be lousy at communication—I’ve been a nurse 35 years and know of brilliant doctors who’ve spent decades immersed in advanced education but have terrible bedside manners and are sometimes pretty lousy at the more technical tasks of their profession. Maybe I’ve become a bit cynical about all the letters following names in my workplace. Of course, I’ve also worked with highly credentialed professionals who are wonderful to work with and who put the patient at the center of their care.

There’s also probably unacknowledged power dynamics going on when I, the ignorant dog owner seek the help of an expert, who in turn is dependent on my willingness to pay. If we stupid humans don’t communicate skillfully in these situations, everyone may leave dissatisfied.

When it becomes clear to me that I’ve done a poor job of communicating myself, I try to think it through to do better in the future. I apologize for my unintended slight and am very grateful for all the training advice I’ve gleaned on PF from professionals like you, lily cd re.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Catherine, sorry to impugn the reputations of people trained by good organizations like Karen Pryor. The woman I was working with had neither CPDT nor KPA. (Glad you mentioned them again.) She had done some classes under a group known for obedience and police dog training (not going to name it); I don't remember where else she got certified. She was trying to shift her style to more reward based at the time I encountered her. At the time the influence of Barbara Woodhouse and New Skete were still strong, and Cesar Milan was at peak. I knew enough to know I didn't want a trainer who would alpha roll my puppies, but I didn't know how to find a truly good one.


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## Michigan Gal (Jun 4, 2019)

Start putting Felix in a crate. Tell Lucy that Felix simply CANNOT be allowed to jump and nip. You have pointed out that she would not let a human child treat her this way, well Felix will be treating human children this way. He will jump on them and nip them and probably terrify them. If you are not home and Lucy is, Felix must be left in the crate. I know it sounds cruel, but I think this is the only way you can train Lucy.

Putting him into a crate is way kinder than retraining him when Lucy leaves.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Well then don't bother listening to me ever again since (oh horror of horrors) I also have a Ph.D. from a lousy Ivy League University medical college campus. I also have earned several NYS and National awards for the quality of my 30+ years of teaching medical and undergraduate students. Despite all of those meaningless qualifications and experiences I also don't pretend that all of my students have liked my classes or my instructional style. Despite that I do think that if you start with hiring someone with no qualifications you definitely don't have much reason to expect much quality. You may get lucky and find a gem of course. One more embodiment of cancel culture and the death of expertise...

If you are trying to figure out if I was offended, guess what, I was and still am.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

You can hire a professional, but only if everyone in the house is willing to follow the training plan. You'll both have to learn new habits to help your dog. That can be the hardest part for people to grasp. If you're willing to try, check out Karen Pryor or CCPDT. You'll find ethical, professional trainers to help you.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

It’s really hard when everyone in the house isn’t on the same page. Just popping in to commiserate. This was something my husband and I struggled with until we started attending training classes together. Those classes were a real game-changer.

Since Lucy is only going to be with you a few more months, attending classes together may only be practical if she’s interested in learning more about dogs, in which case it might be something fun to do together. If she’s not enthusiastic, though, one-on-one training in or around your home could be a good option, as you can tell her the trainer would like everyone in the home to participate in at least one session together. Discuss this with the trainer first, of course. But both our trainer and our behaviourist would 100% be onboard with that plan. In fact, they would encourage it.

You can also do a Zoom session if home visits aren’t an option right now in your region.

How old is Felix now? He may just be testing boundaries, which, as you know, is typical of adolescents. Peggy regressed dramatically shortly before her first birthday, but it was just a blip. We scaled back her freedom, to set her up for success (and protect our sanity), and she quickly got back on track. We had another similar blip around 20 months. Having everyone in the house on the same page during these challenging periods will prevent new bad habits from being solidified.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

To be blunt. You're doing Lucy a favor. You set the rules, she follows them, or out she goes. You and Felix are companions for life (his). Priorities.


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