# Mini vs standard?



## asuk (Jan 6, 2017)

Hello

We are waiting for a mini, I am now questioning if this dog is for us. From what I read minis are hyper and needs tons of exercise. Standards are more laid back. I am now thinking if we should consider a small standard?

We wanted a small mini (not a toy) because we travel quite a bit and wants a dog that fits under an airplane seat. I have 2 tweens. We are not couch potatoes but not 5K runners either. We are moderately active I guess. i am second -guessing myself.

Thoughts? 

Thanks!


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Here is a video of my two spoos, taken at the end of a busy day, that may be helpful:


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

Archie's very high-energy - more hyper than most non-performance minis I've met and definitely on the upper end for dogs his size - but even he knows how to settle down now that he's an adult. His teenage months were more of a struggle. I actually am a runner, but I don't take him running anymore because it's all concrete around here and I was afraid for his joints. (He loved it when I did take him, though.)

We don't have a yard, so he gets three 15-30 minute walks a day. These are not particularly fast walks, as he's usually with my other dog who's much slower-paced. It's more of a stroll with plenty of sniffing, plus he has to practice good manners and not pull (an ongoing project).

He also gets short play sessions throughout the day, usually tug mixed with fetch. I've gotten used to playing tug with one hand while I watch TV, or dragging him around by his toy while I move between rooms. We incorporate training into his play time, so he has to practice dropping his toy in the middle of tug, or he has to do a trick to get me to throw the ball. I'll also usually throw in 5-10 minutes of dedicated training per night (more if I feel like it - he'll go forever if I want him to). He also plays with our other dog when she's up for it, but that too is usually a short burst. 

The rest of the time he's just curled up on my lap or by my feet. If he's being too busy for me, I just give him a bully stick and he's happily occupied for hours at a time.

Weekends we might sleep in all day, but he's also up for long hikes and trips to the off-leash park. He LOVES to run off-leash, so I hope to live in a place with a yard someday. But he tends to adjust his energy to mine.

When we visit my sister and her kids (boys aged 5-12), he runs around in the yard with the boys for as long as they'll play with him, then he comes inside and curls up somewhere. Overall he's learned a pretty good off-switch.

That's now, of course. I adopted him at 10 months, and then he never sat still for more than an hour or two in the afternoon. I had a constant supply of chews ready, because he wouldn't lie quietly unless he had something to do. Some of that could've been anxiety over his changed life situation combined with teenage hormones, though. Around 18 months to 2 years old he learned the off switch he has now, and I hope to build on it as he progresses into doggy middle age.

Hope that helps!


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Don't second guess yourself. A mini is much easier to travel with than a standard. They can fit in the cabin of an aircraft are welcomed at better hotels. Your mini can stay at the Four Seasons, Buck can't. Your mini will not intimidate any of your tweens' friends who don't have dogs. Buck would have. Not that he is aggressive, but he is big and wants in on the action. When my son was at home, we had Scotties. Now, I wish they had been minipoos They live longer and you don't have the bloat with torsion worries nor the expense of a gastropexy.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

From what I've read on this forum, I never got the impression that spoos were laid back. I once wanted one but changed my mind, I wouldn't have the strength and energy to entertain one and keep it sane.

I think if you go with a breeder who has laid back temperaments you should be fine with a mini. In any litter, you'll often find more energetic puppies and more quiet ones.

My toy loves to run at the park but is very laid back in the house. He wil have 3-4 playing sessions in the house but will be mostly content just chilling the rest of the time, if we're not going anywhere. Maybe even an oversized toy might fit your lifestyle.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I never heard that minis were hyper and I don't get that impression here on PF either.

My minipoo is laid back. Some days she gets long walks or hikes and other days she gets few rounds of toss and fetch in the house depending on the weather or our schedule. Once a week she attends a doggie social where she runs around like Zooeysmom's poodles for an hour. Right now she is sleeping on DH and ready for bed.

I do agree that there are places a mini can go that a larger dog may not be welcome. Some apartments and hotels will allow small dogs, not large. 

I'm not sure I would want to squish a minipoo under the seat on an airplane - I think a toy would be a more suitable size for that. Technically my minipoo meets the weight limit and could fit, but she couldn't stand up or move around much.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

I don't know about minis, but standards can be either very laid back or very hyper. My dogs are laid back. The run around like the spoos in zooeysmom's video, but when they are inside, they are usually snoozing. However, I know one spoo who was so hyperactive that he had to be rehomed. He definitely needed about 3 hours of vigorous exercise a day, and his first owners could not provide that. The key to finding a standard that is on the calmer end of the scale is to find out about the parent dogs and other relatives. Lines that are good for therapy are a safer bet than lines that are bred for agility or hunting. Of course picking one of the calmer pups in the litter makes sense, but I actually think that picking the right litter from the right breeder is more important. 

You might want to talk with the mini breeder about the temperament of their dogs and how much exercise they are likely to need.

Not sure that I'd want to be doing much (any) airplane travel with a standard.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I have two toy poodles about the same age...two different litters, same breeder. One has been VERY active, very much the busy body, but has mellowed considerably as he's matured but still has a dynamite personality, full of vim and vigor. And the other one, my smallest (in my siggy picture below) is _very_ laid back... still playful and runs like Zooeysmom's dogs in that awesomely cute video but he's a couch potato in the house much of the time...unless he's playing with Matisse or has a little moment of the zoomies. All in all, Maurice is what I call a subtle dog, very unlike Matisse, who is flamboyant. lol. 

When I took handling classes with Matisse, there were several standard poodles. One gal had a rather young one. He gave her so much trouble, was so bouncy and out of control. Not laid back AT ALL. So very busy. But a dog like that and like my Matisse is fun to train because they do everything with terrific gusto and promptness, once it's channeled in the right direction. 

Like it was said, you need to know who the parents are, the lines, observe, ask around and I'm sure you can find a poodle of any size that isn't hyper. But they _are_ a rather active breed on the whole...lots of energy that needs an outlet, pretty much with any size...in varying degrees. If you don't think that's something you're exactly looking for, have you thought about another breed?


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## mjpa (Dec 11, 2016)

I think it would be mush easier to travel with a mini.


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## asuk (Jan 6, 2017)

Thank you everyone for your input!

I feel more at ease.

@poodlebeguiled - we were looking at other breeds before but settled on a mini. We are able to meet reasonable exercise demands of a dog. We are active ourselves, but I was unsure if a mini would need something over the top like a 3 hour vigorous exercise, kwim.

I was reading here that minis are predominantly bred for agility so that got me nervous. I am glad with the appropriate line I can have a fairly balanced mini.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Good luck on your search. I'm sure you'll find just the right poodle for your life style. Keep us posted. It's all very exciting when you're looking forward to a new pup...and the whole process. :happy:


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## sunfunartist (Mar 24, 2017)

If you want a laid back dog a poodle may not be for you. All sizes have lots of energy. I love poodles, they are wonderful. I have an almost 10 year old mini He still has lots of energy. Be prepared for lots of exercise and training. They are highly intelligent and want to learn all the time.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

asuk said:


> Thank you everyone for your input!
> 
> I feel more at ease.
> 
> ...



If you like to take walks or go on a hike, play a game of fetch, go exploring in a field, like to teach a dog new things often, then I'm quite sure you'll find a poodle to suit your needs. They are active but I don't think they need an inordinate amount of physical exercise. BUT...they _do_ need mental exercise. That tires a dog out a lot and is satisfying to them. They're such brainy dogs that they need mental stimulation or their behavior can suffer. I find them tending to be very sensitive so gentle, progressive training methods are really great for them. They need a job but they don't need to run for 3 hours...no. lol. They're not dogs to sit on the side lines or go lie down in a corner and just watch the world go by...at least not for very long. They thrive on lots of involvement from their owners. (they remind me of Dobermans, my other favorite breed) Totally into their owners, quite needy in the way of involvement with their family. So for some people, that takes a lot of time. 

Maybe those bred for agility are more busy than usual. I don't know much about that. I don't like a hyper active dog. Puppies are different. They're naturally more active and crazy. But as they mature, while I like an exuberant, enthusiastic dog, I do like it when they develop an off switch like my Matisse did. 

I wouldn't like a dog that's bouncing off the walls all the time.
We had a discussion a little while ago about demanding dogs...how people tend to raise their exercise up, up, up and it never stops. We talked about how that is not necessary and how it works like supply and demand so you just can't keep going further and harder, more, more. They'll never get enough or so they can come to think. So, if a dog is still misbehavin' after ample exercise, they may need some quiet activity that uses their brain more. Obedience training is great for that. AND they can learn how to "settle." There are little exercise to show them how rewarding that can be.


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

The best advice you can get is already here; find the right line! But I can share my experience just to add a perspective of someone with a small agility poodle and a spoo in my life.

Agility poodles do have a reputation for being more hyped up, per say. In Northern Europe where I live medium agility poodles are a big thing. From personal experience, I would advise avoiding an agility line unless you really want to dedicate your life to agility and regular sport performance with the dog. But you don't have to get a mini that is bred for agility, and you can chose a dog from calm parents like everyone suggests. 

Also, when it comes to whether big or small dogs are calmer/easier, I think there is a lot of human psychology involved. It's not just about the dog itself.

Here are my thoughts and anecdotes.

My friend got a medium from an agility line (mediums in Europe are the size of large minis, and are also often bred for agility which requires a lot of energy) and the dog has an extreme amount of energy that she can't really deal with on a regular basis. He stays at my house often, and I find him to be a wonderful and sweet dog who is also incredibly annoying and demanding if he hasn't had 2 hours of exercise and extensive training each day. He is just always ON. If his exercise needs are met he is amazing and calm. But meeting the exercise needs of this agility poodle are literally impossible on a daily basis. So he is often hyped up and annoying. She didn't know what she was getting into at the time and she has told me more than once that she wishes she knew what it really meant to get an agility dog. She loves the dog to pieces. He will never be re-homed, but had she known she would have gotten something else.

Meanwhile, my spoo sleeps all day. He wants to go out and run and play, but if a day or two go by where we don't have time for our usual sports he is cool with that. He is undoubtedly the calmer dog in every aspect of his being. Of course, he is ready for action when it is time and I give him at least an hour of hiking and physical play every day. There is no doubt that the dog is an athlete. Important to note is that he came from calm parents and was bred for his charming laid back personality. That was key in my decision to get him! He is calm, but he needs his exercise to be balanced and happy. I think that is to be expected with any dog. Fortunately, he doesn't need half as much as the 15 pound agility poodle does. 

My mentor has been breeding minis and spoos for about 20 years and says that the spoo does generally have a calmer nature. Also, there are a lot of behavioral studies that clearly indicate that bigger dogs are calmer than their smaller counterparts. Of course, there are going to be a lot of exceptions. 

I think there is a key element involved as to why a smaller dog might seem easier, even if it is technically more hyped up. Much of it comes down to human psychology and the way that people perceive big versus little dogs. If a spoo is pulling on the leash or jumping on people these behaviors are MUCH more noticeable and challenging for us, because the dogs are very strong. Time to jump on the forum and ask for help, or call the dog trainer! "Help! Problem! Dog is CRAZY!!"

When little dogs jump, bark or pull on the leash etc. it isn't so hard to deal with physically. Many people will ignore it or even find it endearing. (not saying you should, and not saying the responsible owners on this forum do.) But that dog isn't going to freak out your neighbors or pull you over, so chances are you will get through it and not consider it a huge issue as you would with a big dog who can literally knock you off your feet.

There is a toy poodle in my family and if my spoo acted the way that this toy acts (aggressive, neurotic, jumping, growling, protective of resources, occasional biting etc.) there would probably be town petitions to euthanize him, as he would be considered a danger and a menace to society. But the toy is basically considered a cute nuisance with some behavioral quirks, because people perceive him as harmless due to his size. He is very popular with all friends and family even though he is basically stark raving mad. My big dog would not get away with that in a million years! People would be calling the cops. 

The medium who I know almost always pulls on the leash with all of his massive energy pushing him forward. He would happily choke himself to death if we did not use special harnesses etc. It is super annoying, but he weighs 15 pounds, so physically you can deal with it. He also jumps on me 25 times a day for attention because other people have rewarded him for this irritating behavior thinking that it is cute. If my spoo did that he would be incredibly unpopular, as it is surely NOT cute when 50 pounds of muscle jumps on you with dirty feet. My spoo fortunately is not a puller, but he will pull randomly maybe once a week (like if he sees a bunny!) But when that dog is pulling it is painful, and he could literally pull me over if he caught me off guard. So the rare times he does pull feel like a much bigger problem than the 24/7 times the little medium pulls.

SO, while the spoo is much calmer, if he does act up occasionally it is more noticeable and stressful, because it is physically exhausting. The medium is bouncing off the darn walls most of the time, but because he is so small he is often excused and these behaviors are brushed off by his owner and most of the people around him. Many people even think it is cute and encourage his neurosis inadvertently (unfortunately). At 15 pounds he will never pull you over, he barks at people and dogs often, but his bark doesn't intimidate people etc. My spoo doesn't bark much at anyone these days, but when he does that big deep bark scares people, thus it is a problem even if it only happens once a week. If my spoo jumps on people even once they get upset. Get the picture?

I decided to get a spoo after a lot of research and landed there specifically because they have the reputation for being calmer. I am really happy with my decision. I also made sure to get a dog from calm parents, so that surely makes all the difference in the world. There are undoubtably neurotic spoo lines out there which should be avoided at all costs. 

But With getting the big dog came the responsibility of being a big dog owner. Most of the small dogs I see around town are yapping and jumping and reacting much more than my big dog, but if my big dog steps out of line just once it is perceived as inappropriate and problematic. When he misbehaves people take note because he is just so big and strong. The upside of that is that the spoo has also gotten a lot of training because any of his undesirable behaviors are simply inexcusable since they can scare or hurt someone. In the kindest way, we have high expectations for him and we have set clear boundaries with him, and I think this is a positive thing for any dog. The medium gets away with far too much in my oppinion. He'd probably be happier if he had more training and boundaries, but no one cares because he weighs 15 pounds! That's cute! I can say the same for the toy poodle in the family. At the end of the day, both could probably be a lot calmer and more stable IF people were treating them like big dogs by setting more boundaries, and encouraging calm behaviors etc.

So, in addition to considering how the dog actually is, you have to consider how people will perceive your dog. Also, if you want a big dog you need to be ready physically. Even if the dog is calm, there will be moments where it starts to bounce or pull (everyone is going to be a teenager at some point!) and you have to be able to handle those moments. They will literally feel BIG. 

I think both can be very wonderful, so you have to decide for yourself what you want. I wanted the big dog for his calmness, but that has come with the price of living up to the big dog code of ethics! I have met some VERY sweet minis. They were owned by my mentor who is very good with dogs and who knows how to breed for good temperament.


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

After we got our first mini, I also read that mini's are more hyper than standards or toy's, and for a few months I really started wishing I had seen that earlier and gone with a standard, BUT I now think it's really dependent on the individual dog. ANY dog can be hyper OR laid back. So in your case I think either would be good.

But you mentioned fitting on a plane in the cabin, and I just want to say that I spent a ton of time researching requirements to take dogs on planes in-cabin and my final realization was that my mini's wouldn't fit because of the common regulation that the dog be able to stand up and turn around in the carrier, and the maximum height limit for carriers on planes to fit under the seat seems to be 8 inches. My girls are both over that, one at 14.5 inches at the shoulder and the other at 15 inches at the shoulder. Though I found some anecdotal stories about airlines allowing on dogs with a bag that was shorter than their standing height, it appears to be a huge game of Russian roulette if you would be permitted on or not in those cases.

I would think a Toy would your best bet if you plan to do a lot of traveling by plane.


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## sunfunartist (Mar 24, 2017)

Mini's are way to big for airplanes. Mine is 14.5 inches tall. He is just too tall for the airline regulations. My toy would do fine. But she is small and more fragile. Would like to sit on my lap if she could all day. Versus my mini that prefers wondering of to his own bed. 


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Oh gosh! I forgot about the part that you want to be able to fit him under an airplane seat! Oh yes, a mini would very often be too big. I think you'd need a toy poodle.

For size, my Matisse is 10" at the withers and 7 lbs. Maurice is 8 &3/8ths " and 4 lbs. Neither dog is hyper. Matisse was almost what you'd call hyper _as a puppy_...very busy, but he's totally mellowed out as an adult. Maurice has always been very laid back. He's extraordinarily _go with the flow_ about anything you have to do with him that might be construed as unpleasant by a lot of dogs (ie: some grooming things, going weird places, seeing new things).They're both energetic and ready for anything any time it's suggested...love their walks or a game, love training. Matisse is also very calm most of the time except when he's playing. He can entertain himself, (he plays fetch with himself, lol) he's so joyful. He lies down and chills a lot though, isn't a pest at all. They're both well behaved on a leash, obedient, have good recalls and are just an all around joy to live with. They do bark and get excited when someone comes to the door...really quite noisy. (that's my laziness in training) Maurice barks quite a bit at noises outside. That's just him. But if they were any calmer, they'd be boring.

I've seen hyper or excitable spoos, mini's and toys. I've seen calm and anything in between in all three sizes. I know dogs that are good agility dogs and are not bouncing off the walls 99% of the time at home. I don't think that's a requirement to be a good agility dog. I just don't agree with that kind of breeding no matter _what_ humans want. So do your homework on your breeder whatever size you get.


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## kayla_baxter (Jul 17, 2015)

I have two minis, a six year old female that lives with my mom and a two year old male with me. My boy will go for hours, a 10km fast paced walk is nothing for him, he still wants to play fetch after. On the other hand, he's also totally fine sleeping in bed for a lazy rainy day with no problem. If I want to go he'll go forever, if I want to chill he'll just snuggle in and nap. 
For the record though, I couldn't bring either in cabin on a plane. At 14" they just don't fit in any approved under seat carrier. 


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