# How much are poodles like wolves?



## Asta's Mom

When I was a teenager, I got to work at the local nature center and walked the wolves - what an experience, one I have never forgotten. They are mystical, affectionate beasts and that part of them reminds me of my poodle.


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## Skylar

Many years ago I knew someone who had a dog that was 25% wolf and 75% dog - one parent was domestic dog and the other was a 50/50 mix bred on purpose - and early "designer dog". This dog was gorgeous, had a super thick coat and a gentle nature. But he was also very strong and strong willed. They were the second home for this dog and it ran out into traffic and was killed when it was three years old.


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## BorderKelpie

Beautiful animals, surprisingly gentle and shy. 

I miss getting to play with them. 
Since my poodles, well most of my dogs, are a tad spoiled, I see similarities in their behavior and that of wild canids. Mine sing when I leave, gang up on outsiders in packs, stalk and 'hunt' my livestock, climb up on everything and burrow to sleep. I know I should civilize them a bit, but I like our 'pack like' lifestyle. (I actually refer to them as a clan, not a pack)


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## snow0160

What a wonderful video Eric! My Maremma Sheepdog was nicknamed Wolfie by our neighbors. She was the best dog but was way more independent than a poodle. I would say she had higher guard instinct but i don't know how similar they would be in comparison to a wolf. They are used to guard against wolves and supposedly more fierce but I feel like they are much smaller than the wolf.










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## ericwd9

I have been told wolves avoid conflict except when territory is infringed. They will not enter a conflict with a stronger force. I guess this is a survival technique.


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## lisasgirl

ericwd9 said:


> I have been told wolves avoid conflict except when territory is infringed. They will not enter a conflict with a stronger force. I guess this is a survival technique.


So I guess Archie's constant acquiescence to Cleo means he's not a weenie, he's a WOLF! :laugh:


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## lily cd re

They are enormous (bigger than Peeves) and as a result very powerful. As puppies they are not likely to offer eye contact the way a domestic puppy will.

I don't particularly love comparisons of modern dogs to modern wolves. Certainly modern wolves and modern dogs share a common ancestor, but neither modern animal is what the ancestor was. Both have changed through time. From the very first time an early human threw a curious young wolf a bone as it approached a camp and that youngster was joined by others with that same curiosity and willingness to associate with people we have been modifying the ancestor until their descendants became clearly the well domesticated progenitors of the modern dog in all its forms. Remnants in there of the ancestor, yes, but not the way some people view the contemporary wolf as being the animal our dogs gave rise to.

The video is interesting and pastoral. I enjoyed watching it, but I hope people don't decide wolves are suitable as pets because of it.


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## ericwd9

I would agree. Wolves do not make pets, period. They have been found to make good companions where people share their teritory. This is most likely where wolves became the first hunting companions and much later, pets. I have seen large groups of trained GSDs (20+) in play. As a pack they are formidable. My imagination is staggered by the thought of a large wolf pack in a territorial aggression stance. We have a wild dog in Australia, the Dingo. I see them as a feral dog descended from the domesticated dog of Australia's first people. They can not bark. They do howl. They form packs and will bring down large animals when hunting in a pack They are notorious as being cowardly. I have camped in remote areas where few people ever go. In the first days one hears dingos howl at night. Within a week one will see their eyes in the firelight at a distance. In two weeks they will come within a few yards for a bone. In a month some will take the bone from your hand and run with it to escape the others. I formed the opinion that the brave ones taking food from your hand did so because the others would not. It gave them an advantage to seize the food and run. A little after you might hear fighting in the distance as the food was "shared" I think (but I do not know) that wolves would have behaved thus but would be more adventurous.
Eric.
P.S. Feeding dingos is not a good idea in populated areas. They can become aggressive in stealing food from children and weaker adults. One was said to have taken a baby and a famous court case evolved (See Lindy Chamberlain) Few people believed this took place but it adds up, for wild dogs in a tourist area who were scavenging.


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## BorderKelpie

I believe that wolves and dingos have been romantized to their detriment. I love wolves and am fascinated by dingos. I have a huge soft spot and great respect for wild canids. I wish people could see them for what they truly are, wild animals in tightly knit family groups, not savage killer beings in a 'pack.' They are families with unique survival skills evolved over centuries, living works of Nature's beautiful, but at times, desperate, works of art. They are required to fill a niche to keep the world in balance. Too bad humans keep unbalancing everything.
I see them as families struggling to survive and raise their offspring the best they can with what little they have and doing a surprisingly admirable job. 

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## Markbthompson

ericwd9 said:


> Just how much of the wolf still lies within our poodle. Much of domestic dog behavior is related to wolf behavior. Just how much remains.
> Here is a short video showing just how big wolves really are:
> 
> https://youtu.be/fXDPacET4cU
> 
> Eric.




My SPOO always circles 3 times before laying down, even in my bed. I had to explain it to the wife how that was a habit from wolves and she was packing down the area before using it. It took a lot of work to get her to go down fast when working out in public. I had to add a drop command to her skill set but off leash she still does it.


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## ericwd9

BorderKelpie said:


> I believe that wolves and dingos have been romantized to their detriment. I love wolves and am fascinated by dingos. I have a huge soft spot and great respect for wild canids. I wish people could see them for what they truly are, wild animals in tightly knit family groups, not savage killer beings in a 'pack.' They are families with unique survival skills evolved over centuries, living works of Nature's beautiful, but at times, desperate, works of art. They are required to fill a niche to keep the world in balance. Too bad humans keep unbalancing everything.
> I see them as families struggling to survive and raise their offspring the best they can with what little they have and doing a surprisingly admirable job.
> 
> Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk


I knew of a dingo who was domesticated from wild stock. She was found in a remote area infested with sarcoptic mange and was in such poor condition that she was prostrate and dying. My acquaintance (a vet tech) hydrated her and fed her by tube. Her mange was treated and in time she would eat from his hand and became well again. The temptation of fresh raw meat enabled some training. He never trusted her with children or adults, without understanding of what a wild dog is. She was affectionate, faithful and protective. She warned me and would not allow me near her or her "master". She lived with him for 5 years and was estimated to be 8 years old when she died from cancer.
Eric


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## snow0160

For Christmas Holiday I visited a place called Safari Edventure in Miami. Best place ever because admission was only $15! It was amazing because I got to pet both arctic and timber wolves! It made me think of this thread. Wolves are really fun, they really are a lot like dogs. The arctic wolf is super small. I would say they are the size of a medium dog. By comparison, the Timberwolves were huge! They were roughly 120 lbs but they had long legs and large overall frame. They are similar in size to a female Great Dane or the Great Pyrenees but less broad and way taller. You cannot tell from the photos or video that they were huge because they were on a platform. The Timberwolf was my favorite part and my favorite animal was the black Timberwolf because it was so friendly. I think Paul was a little intimidated by their size but I love animals of all kind. I have included a photo of the other animals as well.


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## zooeysmom

What magnificent creatures! And is that you snow? You are beautiful!!


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## snow0160

Yep that is me. I have a weird stalker and was reluctant to put up photos for a while


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## fjm

We-e-e-ll, to get back to the original question, and looking at Poppy, I would have to say Not much! A wolf cub - a very young wolf cub - perhaps, but an adult wolf? No - more like a rabbit, I fear!


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## snow0160

Wolves are a lot more dog like than I had imagined and especially how they are portrayed in popular culture. I have this video of myself and this Timberwolf. I really enjoyed their playfulness and it is very much like Eric's video from earlier in this thread. The black male wolf in the video is only 1.5 years and have not stopped growing. I asked the guide if they stop at two like large breed dogs and he said yes.


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## ericwd9

If I had your permission and if I were 30 years younger, I would stalk you. But this is day dreams. The nature of the wolf and that of the dog are inextricably intertwined. There are those of us who hate to think of our toy poodle as a wolf and there are those who are proud to see the pride of the wolf in the set of the tail and the high held head of our standard poodle. Those and we have been partners in the hunt for millennia.
Eric


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