# How to find a local trainer / class?



## Ciscley (Jul 16, 2013)

I've just had the most disheartening dog training experience in my life - and that includes having our first service dog trainee flunk out right before permanent placement with a recipient.

I'm desperate for moral support, perspective and any and all resources you can share. 

The short story - I have a ZERO food motivated, limited play motivated, STRONG prey and competition motivated adolescent intact male dog and I need external help to advance him in what I believe are basic, minimum life skills. I'd prefer to participate in a class but I'm very open to 1 on 1 training as well. I have experience and prefer doing clicker based training but am flexible about what kind of method is used so long as it is explained and makes sense to me for this specific dog - ie, doesn't address one "issue" just to create a much larger problem.

I just want to find a local trainer who will meet those needs? And I'd prefer NOT to continue paying for the privilege of finding out that XYZ trainer is NOT the right fit. I'd also prefer not to have my observations and feedback about my dog ignored - and then regurgitated at me when the trainer finally observes them for herself. 

Honestly, if I could just find someone who will treat my dog and myself like the unique set of strengths and problems that we are and help me to train the dog that shows up versus the dog they would like him to be, that would be a miracle that I will gladly pay out the nose for.
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Sorry that was so rant like. I just spent two hours venting to my poor husband on the phone before even attempting to write this. I just can't believe that I paid $35 for a 30 min "private training session" whose RESULTS were to tell me exactly what I told the trainer / owner by phone before setting up the appointment. 

Oh, wait, she did tell me a few new things - that I don't really understand the "concept" of clicker training; that I just need to give up and get a puppy instead (!) and that I should tell his breeders that they need to either release him from the breeding program and let me neuter him (so I can train him) or they should do collections on him exclusively instead of letting him tie naturally with a dam, apparently because male dogs who breed bitches are notoriously un-food motivated.

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Sorry, I'm trying not to cry again. It's just so frustrating to KNOW how fabulous of a dog Desi is and how quickly he learns when I can get him focused and motivated. Building his focus, finding his motivation, I know that's my responsibility and I'm admitting I can't do it by myself but I'm getting zero help from the professionals I've reached out to, this last option being the most credentialed and national level organization I could find in my area.

Do I just let him be the happy go lucky house dog that he is and only invest my time into the dogs who are easy to train? What is the minimum every dog needs to know to be safe? I've always considered it the Canine Good Citizen test, but maybe I'm expecting too much. The general public always thinks he's great - he just ran a 2 mile fun run with me and was great. But if a deer crossed his path, he'd be at the end of the leash barking his head off. And if he ran off, I'd have no reliable recall command or even a sit or down stay to use. And frankly that just terrifies me because we adore him so much :afraid:

I feel like I asked the trainer all the right questions by phone, explained what I was hoping to get from her service, why I even thought she was the right person to go to, and I just patently wasn't heard. I certainly don't begrudge paying someone for their time, I just would prefer not to keep having to waste my own to ultimately find out that they can't help me. Or won't help me. Or aren't interested in helping me. Or want me to use a prong collar on a dog who is so soft that it took me months to get him confident enough to walk on a leash and ride in a car calmly.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

What happened to you just stinks! I never charge people for my first meeting with them and their dog because I know either I might not click with them personally or philosophically about how to do what they need to have happen. I also want to reserve the right to decline working with people whose dog's issues are beyond my skill set (severe aggression is not my thing) or where I don't think the people are going to do the homework needed to support my work.

I would do two things. First you can look on the Association of Professional Dog Trainers (APDT) web site for trainers (like me) who are members of that organization. I would choose a person who is CPDT-KA certified if possible. The second thing I would do is to search on the AKC website for training clubs in your area. Here is a link to the appropriate page to find clubs. American Kennel Club - Club Search and Directory

There are people here who do performance sports with breed dogs, like Charismatic Millie, who can certainly speak more to the challenges of working intact dogs than I can and may be able to shed light on motivational concerns as you have expressed. Although Peeves is intact, he is food motivated. My issues with him are that he likes to have play visits with other dogs during group stays otherwise he knows many of the novice, open and utility exercises. I have chosen to do rally with him rather than fight with him over the groups, but that doesn't mean I don't think it is possible to train those things.

I hope you don't let yourself feel too beat up about this. I think you can find the right kind of private trainer or club, but would definitely try to find someone who gives a free consult before you agree to hire them. Many clubs will welcome class observers as well before you sign up.


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

I'm so sorry you've had such challenges with finding a *good* trainer. 

I love that you know so much about your individual dog(s), and that you have ideas about what you would prefer to do but are willing to keep an open mind.

It seems like you are a wonderful dog owner that would work hard at whatever the trainer gives as homework.

Don't give up hope! There's got to be someone out there that can meet your training needs.


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## Ciscley (Jul 16, 2013)

Thank you both so much. I'm googling things now (including reading old PF threads) and the research is helping. 

I can't believe I'm in such a complete state of self pity over this. It really has cracked something deep inside me and I can't stop dwelling on it. 

I think I was just feeling *so* positive about Desi and I was so hopeful about this specific trainer and it was such a negative, negative experience for both of us that I feel like I was punched in the stomach. 

It's like I know what a healthy perspective and rational reaction to this situation should be and instead I'm all :Cry:


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## Rachel76 (Feb 3, 2014)

I don't know how helpful this book would be and thought I'd throw it out there anyway. When Pigd Fly: Training success with Impossible Dogs by Jane Killion.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

When high hopes get dashed the fall feels worse I guess than if you tripped over something tiny. I think your hopes for Desi should still be high (after all he is a poodle!). I really do hope that you find a trainer or class that works for you and Desi.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

I feel for you woman! I've had some very disappointing experiences with dog trainers over the years myself. Happily, I found my way to one locally who's a great fit for Chagall and I. Catherine gave you good advice. I'm just going to toss this out because I so wish I could help. Maybe contact the Great Lakes Poodle Club. Perhaps someone there, possibly the club rescue coordinator, can offer you a lead on suitable trainers/classes. Great Lakes Poodle Club of Chicago - Poodle Club of America Maybe your vet's office (or others in the area) can suggest local trainers? (Mine does, as well as dog walkers/dogsitters.) I can hear how upset you are. Things can turnaround for you yet. Don't give up!:clover:


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

In the UK, where we are all packed into a much smaller space, it is usually easy to find someone through personal recommendations, or through internet reviews. And the UK APDT specifically excludes trainers who train using forceful methods, which also helped me to feel comfortable using their lists of trainers as a starting point. In your situation I think I would look into qualifications and experience very carefully, and ask to talk to some former clients. You are looking for someone who has excellent diagnostic and training skills, the experience to use them effectively with both dogs and humans, excellent communication skills (including the all important listening), and that you can trust and feel comfortable with - quite a tall order, in fact, so don't be too disappointed the first try did not work out!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

fjm said:


> ...the UK APDT specifically excludes trainers who train using forceful methods,


That's interesting to hear! Not the same I believe with APDT in the U.S.
https://apdt.com/pet-owners/choosing-a-trainer/
Because APDT is primarily an educational organization for trainers, we allow trainers with all methodologies to join with the goal of exposing them to humane, science-based training methods. However, this does not mean that all trainers in our directory subscribe to this philosophy, and it is your job as a consumer to use the tools we provide in this section to find the right trainer for you and your companion.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Chagall's mom said:


> That's interesting to hear! Not the same I believe with APDT in the U.S.
> https://apdt.com/pet-owners/choosing-a-trainer/
> Because APDT is primarily an educational organization for trainers, we allow trainers with all methodologies to join with the goal of exposing them to humane, science-based training methods. However, this does not mean that all trainers in our directory subscribe to this philosophy, and it is your job as a consumer to use the tools we provide in this section to find the right trainer for you and your companion.


How in the world can a trainer who is old school and only uses coercive methods supposed to learn to do otherwise if there is no organization that will be inclusive and educational towards them? Also here the OP did do research to find a trainer who she thought would be a good fit and it was a disaster for her. Let's not condemn APDT here for that policy statement. It is, after all, Ian Dunbar's brainchild. Anyone who needs to hire a trainer should be doing research and interviews to find a good fit and all trainers should be willing to assist openly in that process.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

lily cd re said:


> How in the world can a trainer who is old school and only uses coercive methods supposed to learn to do otherwise if there is no organization that will be inclusive and educational towards them? Also here the OP did do research to find a trainer who she thought would be a good fit and it was a disaster for her. Let's not condemn APDT here for that policy statement. It is, after all, Ian Dunbar's brainchild. Anyone who needs to hire a trainer should be doing research and interviews to find a good fit and all trainers should be willing to assist openly in that process.


Whoa! Ain't nobody condemning nobody in my corner of the world! I made an observation about things being different on either side of the pond. We're all on the same side of wanting to help the OP find the right trainer for herself and her dog. As for APDT being Dr. Dunbar's brainchild, well, that's grand. But it doesn't in anyway invalidate my observation.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

Desi sounds so much like my previous dog, Gideon. Gideon was a Chow, so perhaps not the most trainable/obedient breed to start with. I got him around the age of 6mos because he was dropped off at the farm where I worked - I had planned to take him to the shelter but they told me they wouldn't adopt out a Chow and he would be euthanized so I kept him. We got off to a rocky start...I lived at home at the time, and the first time my mom tried to walk him he tore her rotator cuff because he saw a squirrel. But he did ultimately become very well trained - even reliable off leash in the presence of squirrels, lol. 

Gideon also was not food motivated - he turned up his nose at any treat I tried, even really good stuff. Ultimately, after much trial and error, we found one toy that he would work for, and then I only let him have the toy as a reward when he was working. He'd do a command, and we would have a little chase/tug of war session with the toy as a treat. Not as efficient as using treats, but it worked. In the times where Desi has been motivated and learning, what did you do?

The most helpful thing I learned working with a high prey drive dog is that timing is important. It doesn't work to wait until they have taken off after something to try to give a command or correction. It takes a lot of paying attention and finding that split second where they've seen the thing but their brain isn't totally gone, and doing something then. I had good luck redirecting at that moment, and preventing an all out runaway. Eventually with a lot of repetition I think Gideon made the association and stopped impulsively taking off. I'm not sure if that makes any sense or not. 

Also, Gideon took a long time to get a solid recall. I had better luck initially using down or sit (I teach the commands to mean sit or down where you are, don't come to me). I would give either a sit or down command to stop him, and then go to him. 

Anyways, this post ended up longer than intended and with no real advice for finding a trainer. But my original intent was to tell you that I don't think your guy is hopeless.


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## Chells_Aura (Dec 7, 2012)

I'm really curious about a trainer that charge 35$ for a half hour. Did you have to go to them? I've been looking for a trainer that I could get to come to my house on occasion as Chell is a darling in-classes but there are some issues we were/are having at home that I wanted someone to see us in-home and give some advice.... but cheapest is 100$ an hour and none of them do more than a free phone interview. I'm worried I'd end up with a scenario like yours... and out $100!!
I mean I get it... you have to make a living some-how... but if I made even 1/7th of 100$ an hour then yeah I could afford to pay that without worry..... >.<
I'm sorry you had problems with the trainer... hopefully you are able to find a good one!
I'll be using the advice posted to you I think as well


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I am surprised to hear that you can't get a free consult in person. To me it just seems like a good practice to take a "test drive" so to speak. I may not want to take a job if I think there is a problem I can't solve or if I get a bad vibe about the people, etc. If I have already taken money from people for that intro how can I tell them I won't come back? Most trainers I know do give free consults. If the person is a private agility or obedience coach then you pay from day one, but those of us who go to each other for those lessons mostly already know each other anyway.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I hope you can find a trainer, and frankly I would not expect the first home visit to be free. I would expect you've discussed your dog and what you hope to accomplish by phone and the trainer arrives prepared to start training. I got a recommendation from my all-knowing breeder and I'm very pleased. I think it's expensive, but I'm seeing results, getting encouragement and some home environment specific tips. Keep searching for a good referral. It's an investment in my dog, is how I justify the expense. Also, I don't consider myself a very experienced trainer, having only dealt with a few calm Scotties. You sound like you would only need a few private sessions with the right trainer. Good luck


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## Ciscley (Jul 16, 2013)

*Moral is up, but no plan of action yet*

Thanks everyone for the advice and support. We're doing much better today. 

Last night I resorted to "self-medicating" via Netflix binge watching while Daphne slept in her crate at my feet and Desi curled up on the couch practically in my lap. Poodle therapy is the best.

Today we worked as much time outside in the gorgeous weather as possible. While Daphne practiced her loose leash walking, Desi hung out nearby on a long tie out and got clicked and treated whenever we walked past him while he stayed calm and enjoyed his toys instead of responding to her puppy lunges and play bows. 

He honestly doesn't seem to care about the treats, but he loves the clickey noise and the acknowledgement that he gets from me when he hears it.
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Where we are on finding another trainer... pretty much stalled. 

The Pet Professional Guild was a new website to me and looks like a really nice reference, definitely book marking it for future searches. Unfortunately right now there are only 4 listings within 100 miles of me and 3 of those were Petsmart. I contacted the other by email, not really excited about her so much for Desi - everything looked pretty cookie cutter, but definitely a possible puppy class for Daphne. 

See, Desi loves to jump and run. I can teach him to jump over, through or onto anything with zero effort. He thinks it's awesome. So I was trying to find a way to use that love of movement as his reward for static obedience behaviors. That's why we had been researching obedience trainers who also specialize in agility.

This trainer we went to wasn't the first, just the one I was most interested in. They've won lots of awards (themselves as well as their students) in dog shows and agility competitions. 

We actually had Desi evaluated (for free) by another training facility but they don't do clicker or marker based training and use physical manipulation to force the dog into the desired position - like pushing the bum down, etc. He did really well on their agility course and was up to a 3 second sit stay on the platform right before his favorite obstacle - the A frame. 

I explained all of this to the new trainer when we talked by phone, and I could see the gorgeous indoor agility course through the glass of the room our "class" took place in, but instead of using any of it she just told me to feed him McDonald's hamburgers or chicken nuggets as training treats to get him food motivated. 

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On a semi-unrelated note, we just brought our newest service dog trainee home for his first weekend. He's napping in his crate right now. Desi is beside himself wanting to meet the little boy. Will be exciting to see if Desi's learning improves with this new competition like it has with Daphne.


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## Ciscley (Jul 16, 2013)

Chells_Aura said:


> I'm really curious about a trainer that charge 35$ for a half hour. Did you have to go to them? I've been looking for a trainer that I could get to come to my house on occasion as Chell is a darling in-classes but there are some issues we were/are having at home that I wanted someone to see us in-home and give some advice.... but cheapest is 100$ an hour and none of them do more than a free phone interview. I'm worried I'd end up with a scenario like yours... and out $100!!
> I mean I get it... you have to make a living some-how... but if I made even 1/7th of 100$ an hour then yeah I could afford to pay that without worry.....


The $100/hr is what the typical rate is for in home in my area too. Honestly if her fee had been more than $35, she wouldn't have gotten the fee. I paid it as much out of humiliation and frustration so I could escape because her next "class" had arrived. I feel like I set pretty clear expectations going into the meeting of what I wanted to get out of it and I was just too shell shocked from the insane, unhelpful comments to challenge her on the payment. 

I will personally use this experience as a discussion topic when scheduling any consultations with future trainers. You could do something similar in the phone interview with the in home people you are considering - ask what they do if a customer isn't satisfied with the training session.

From personal experience, one idea for Chell's at home behavior - see if someone can catch it and your response on video. You might be able to figure it out once you can see yourself, and if not you could take it with you to class and get the instructor's feedback or even post it to a dog training board for feedback online if you aren't in a class currently.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Where in southern Indiana are you? I just searched for APDT listed trainers in a 50 mile radius of Bloomington and got 7 people who are CPDT-KA certified. There are people out there who will be good. Keep looking.


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## Ciscley (Jul 16, 2013)

Chagall's mom said:


> I feel for you woman! I've had some very disappointing experiences with dog trainers over the years myself. Happily, I found my way to one locally who's a great fit for Chagall and I.


Thank you! I was torn about venting here, but it has helped so much more hearing from you guys than I could have expected. Definitely looking forward to being on the happy side of the story. 




fjm said:


> You are looking for someone who has excellent diagnostic and training skills, the experience to use them effectively with both dogs and humans, excellent communication skills (including the all important listening), and that you can trust and feel comfortable with - quite a tall order, in fact, so don't be too disappointed the first try did not work out!


Perfectly said. I need to remember finding the right fit for me is as important as for Desi. And honestly I'm the much harder fit. 



FireStorm said:


> Desi sounds so much like my previous dog, Gideon. ... The first time my mom tried to walk him he tore her rotator cuff because he saw a squirrel. But he did ultimately become very well trained - even reliable off leash in the presence of squirrels, lol.
> 
> Gideon also was not food motivated - he turned up his nose at any treat I tried, even really good stuff. Ultimately, after much trial and error, we found one toy that he would work for, and then I only let him have the toy as a reward when he was working. He'd do a command, and we would have a little chase/tug of war session with the toy as a treat. Not as efficient as using treats, but it worked. In the times where Desi has been motivated and learning, what did you do?


I just love Gideon's name. Love. 

Fast movement, my extra happy high pitched training voice and performing alongside another dog who is already well trained are the current trifecta for Desi learning. We experienced that at a previous agility facility and were hoping to capitalize on it for regular training. I might just end up building a couple of the obstacles in our basement. 

I really wish there was a way to harness the prey motivation for training. I've tried several methods for building up a toy's value with Desi, but none since Daphne's arrived in the house. I think I'll try a couple again with him. Sue Garrett had a really good method if I remember.


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## Ciscley (Jul 16, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> Where in southern Indiana are you? I just searched for APDT listed trainers in a 50 mile radius of Bloomington and got 7 people who are CPDT-KA certified. There are people out there who will be good. Keep looking.


Corydon, Indiana.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Here is a link to APDT member trainers in a 25 mile radius of your zip code. The first one is CPDT-KA certified. https://apdt.com/trainer-search/us/results/?zip=47112&dist=25&cert=0 I would give that person a call.


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

I don't know if this is normal, or if I was just super lucky, but since I want to maybe/possibly do therapy work with Fletcher I was checking out therapy group sites for organizations in my area and stumbled upon one where they discussed necessary training for participants.

They mentioned that the best place to start was training for the CGC test, and then they listed several trainers that they recommend in our area that only use positive training methods. I used one of the training facilities for Fletcher's early puppy socialization/training, but they were over an hour's drive from our house. Now I've switched to a lady in our area that does private and (very) small group training, but she also works at the facility we had used for the earlier training. Bonus for us since I actually got to meet her before attending one of her local classes.

It might not be the same thing you're looking for, but maybe some unusual thinking in how to look for a trainer will help you uncover some options in your area?

Just an idea.


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## Chells_Aura (Dec 7, 2012)

Ciscley said:


> The $100/hr is what the typical rate is for in home in my area too. Honestly if her fee had been more than $35, she wouldn't have gotten the fee. I paid it as much out of humiliation and frustration so I could escape because her next "class" had arrived. I feel like I set pretty clear expectations going into the meeting of what I wanted to get out of it and I was just too shell shocked from the insane, unhelpful comments to challenge her on the payment.
> 
> I will personally use this experience as a discussion topic when scheduling any consultations with future trainers. You could do something similar in the phone interview with the in home people you are considering - ask what they do if a customer isn't satisfied with the training session.
> 
> From personal experience, one idea for Chell's at home behavior - see if someone can catch it and your response on video. You might be able to figure it out once you can see yourself, and if not you could take it with you to class and get the instructor's feedback or even post it to a dog training board for feedback online if you aren't in a class currently.



That's some good advice thanks! Will see what we can fandangle....


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## Ciscley (Jul 16, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> Here is a link to APDT member trainers in a 25 mile radius of your zip code. The first one is CPDT-KA certified. https://apdt.com/trainer-search/us/results/?zip=47112&dist=25&cert=0 I would give that person a call.


The link gives me an access restriction error, but searching from the main screen lists several that weren't on the previous site, so will definitely contact people. Thx!


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

I don't have any specific recommendations but wanted to offer encouragement. I had to look around a bit for the right fit for Lily, and it took a while, and was frustrating. Her issues were different than yours, but my point is she also needed something a little out of the ordinary, and it took some digging to figure it out. 

I first used the same trainer I used for Max for his CGC and TDI. She was good, and well meaning, but Max is easy, and Lily was clearly beyond her skill set. 

Then I found another local trainer who assured me that her methods would work. I was feeling a little desperate at this point. She showed up for the first session at my home with a prong collar that would fit Lily. Lily is 12 lbs. I vetoed the prong collar, and then she said at minimum we should use a martingale with the chain. I agreed to that, and we started our session. 

She used a lot of leash corrections with only verbal praise. No food rewards at all- didn't believe in them. Lily is VERY food motivated, but again, I am feeling a little desperate, so I'm willing to look at possibilities. I followed her recommendations, and after about three walks with these techniques, I did a leash correction and Lily looked up at me with this fear in her eyes- and that was the end of it. The collar came off and we were back to the drawing board. 

I also need to say that Lily is also a very soft dog, and I should have known those methods were not for her. 

Plan C. Someone gave me the name of a behaviorist, and we drove over an hour to her house, and it was exactly what Lily needed. She was CDPT(KA) and CDBC certified, and was wonderful. She understood right away what Lily needed and worked with me to help bring her forward. No aversive methods, just understanding her behavior, and what makes her tick. She even suggested I bring the other two dogs for one of the sessions so she could work them in the plan as well, as they were part of the household. Didn't charge me any extra for that. I think we did five sessions, and then she said that I was ready to continue on my own. I honestly don't remember the price, but I don't remember feeling it was exorbitant. It was also worth every penny. 

Her advice was invaluable and Lily was able to move forward in leaps and bounds after that. She takes agility classes now, is prepping for competition, and does amazingly well. We never could have done that three years ago. She is so far away from that scared, reactive dog she was, and is finally now the dog she was meant to be....a super smart, sparkly, funny little dog- she has the greatest personality. 

You know Desi better than anybody, and know what he needs. I hope you find a good fit for him. I feel your pain, because there were moments when I was struggling with Lily, that I wondered if we would ever get anywhere. Hope something comes together soon!


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## Ciscley (Jul 16, 2013)

So helpful to read, CarolineK. Thank you!


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

Thanks. You definitely got some great suggestions here- hopefully some of it brings you to the right place!


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