# Diarrhea...Home cooked thoughts, advice



## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

So Bobby has been struggling with diarrhea off and on the past few weeks. He’s never been one to have consistently super solid, firm poops but I wouldn’t say he struggled with diarrhea, although softer poop is fairly typical. He’s had a few bouts here and there and a major problem a few weeks ago. That resolved for a few days but now it seems his gut has been struggling more. He did not do well food wise when he was boarded the last two times. Diarrhea which I suppose that could be stress related. He loves it there but I’m sure there is still stress and since he doesn’t have an iron gut. Although it was never a problem with boarding before that. Who knows?

Lately it’s been that he will have good poops for a few days then diarrhea. Not severe and not frequent but his gut is just not right. He just recently, 2 weeks ago, had his stool sample taken and that was good. His well vet check was good. He’s happy and good except for his gut. I’m thinking it’s a good possibility of it
being food related. 😔 I thought we had a great food regimen until now, we don’t. I’m quite careful about what he eats. But unfortunately I think we need to be stricter...no treats at the vets.😔 We’ve tried several high quality kibbles since we’ve had him some better than others. I’m not sure if I want to keep doing that.

Anyway, I’m thinking of trying homecooked. When I feed him the home cooked rice, burger and chicken it totally agrees with him and of course he loves it. I understand there is more to it than that and I’ve reserved several books from the library and am researching online. I know it will be more work but that’s ok. I know a lot of folks swear by raw but I’m not up for it and honestly I don’t think Bobby would thrive on it as he won’t chew a bone to save his little doggy soul. I need to start a good journal and figure this out. I’m pretty bummed as I was hoping for a dog without an ultra sensitive tummy as our Great Dane had major issues. We will do what we need to do though. So, I would love some thoughts, pros, cons, resources. I will appreciate any input. Thanks poodle forum friends! 😊


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I have found www.dogaware.com very helpful. I like home-cooking for its adaptability - easy to adjust fat levels, protein sources, calorific values, etc - and because I have greater control. We know the contents of commercial foods can vary according to price and availability of ingredients, and too many things can be subsumed under "meat" and "animal origin". It does take more time and thought than just tipping kibble into a bowl or opening a can, but fortunately dogs are happy to eat much the same recipe every day, so batch cooking and freezing work well. If you don't have much freezer space it can be tricky - I invested in a small chest freezer for the garage, which has worked well.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I home cook but it’s a lot of work. I wouldn’t do it except my older minipoo has an allergy to legumes and it’s in almost all foods.

A lot of the higher rated dog food is high in fat and protein and too much fat can cause loose stools. Too much protein can cause issues too. Obviously most dogs have no problems with these foods. For some they are too rich. If I were you I would analyze the various foods you have fed and try to identify any patterns? Has he done better on any?

Additives, especially glycerin can cause loose stool. See if that’s one of the ingredients in food and treats.

Even if you go with home cooking it’s still helpful to know.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I’m sure you’ve seen me mention glycerin elsewhere, but I’m going to keep bringing it up because I think it’s a big issue with our pups and the dog treat industry.

Even turkey tendons, which I thought were the safest, simplest treat around, are made with glycerin. (We learned that the hard way.)

As part of your process, I would try eliminating this ingredient for a few weeks and see what happens. Even though they only slightly soften her stool, with Peggy the results are indisputable because of her anal gland “leaks.”

Generally speaking, I think it’s helpful to rule out treat-related digestive issues before experimenting with new mealtime foods. First, because it’s good to start with the easy stuff. But also, if Bobby’s like Peggy, a single treat could be the culprit and you’ll be going in circles otherwise.

A journal is essential.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Lol @Skylar beat me to it.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

fjm said:


> I have found www.dogaware.com very helpful. I like home-cooking for its adaptability - easy to adjust fat levels, protein sources, calorific values, etc - and because I have greater control. We know the contents of commercial foods can vary according to price and availability of ingredients, and too many things can be subsumed under "meat" and "animal origin". It does take more time and thought than just tipping kibble into a bowl or opening a can, but fortunately dogs are happy to eat much the same recipe every day, so batch cooking and freezing work well. If you don't have much freezer space it can be tricky - I invested in a small chest freezer for the garage, which has worked well.


Thank you for your input. I will check out the website. I’m just in the research phase right now. 
I do have a large chest freezer so that wouldn’t be a problem.😊


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

I think home cooked is a good option if you are up for it. I like DIY diets for dogs that are sensitive because you can customize things to work for them. As long as you are careful to balance everything and include all essential vitamins and minerals. Personally I find raw to be much easier and simpler and less time consuming, but it really depends on what your situation is like and you should do what works best for you. Misha also isn't a bone chewer, so I've always given him small bones or ground bones and he has no issue with raw.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Skylar said:


> I home cook but it’s a lot of work. I wouldn’t do it except my older minipoo has an allergy to legumes and it’s in almost all foods.
> 
> A lot of the higher rated dog food is high in fat and protein and too much fat can cause loose stools. Too much protein can cause issues too. Obviously most dogs have no problems with these foods. For some they are too rich. If I were you I would analyze the various foods you have fed and try to identify any patterns? Has he done better on any?
> 
> ...


The thing that befuddles me is the inconsistency. It’s like it happens with no rhyme or reason but obviously something is triggering it. He’s not outdoors without us so I don’t think it’s anything outdoors. I don’t think we have anything with glycerin at this time. I checked his current foods and treats. His treats are pretty basic and no glycerin. He does chew on bully sticks but he’s had those since he was a puppy and he doesn’t chew long so he’s not really eating much. If anything, they just make him pee.

He definitely has done better on some foods. He’s been eating Farmina the past few months. He was doing great on it and it’s one of his favorites. He loves it. We did a fair amount of rotating for a long time, in hopes of warding off allergies, which seemed to go well for the most part, but I recently stopped doing that so I could keep tabs on possible triggers. Now it seems like even the Farmina isn’t agreeing with his gut. 😔 Maybe he does need a lower protein lower fat food. I know the worst reaction he had was about a year ago to a very highly rated, no grain, high protein food. 
He actually does quite well with food that has oatmeal. Our favorite was no longer being made which led us to the Farmina. We have Honest kitchen but he’s not a fan unless I put cooked meat in it which leads me to thinking, perhaps we should just do homecooked.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I’m sure you’ve seen me mention glycerin elsewhere, but I’m going to keep bringing it up because I think it’s a big issue with our pups and the dog treat industry.
> 
> Even turkey tendons, which I thought were the safest, simplest treat around, are made with glycerin. (We learned that the hard way.)
> 
> ...


I am totally going to start journaling. I don’t think it’s treats, at least right now. Treats could definitely have triggered things in the past. This latest round of diarrhea really has me really perplexed as I’ve been super diligent since his last major episode.
I’m just researching right now. I was especially thinking about it because it looks like we have to go back to the chicken, burger and rice routine so thought maybe be a good time to start.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

I am quite impressed with this spreadsheet - I bought it to make homecooked yet balanced toppers for Annie and Trixie. It shows any potential deficiencies in the recipe and allows you to play with the recipe to get the right nutrient balances and shows what the macros and % of AAFCO or NRC recommended levels of nutrients are. 









Raw Fed and Nerdy Formulation Sheet







rawfedandnerdy.com





It's made primarily for raw feeders, but importing other ingredients from the USDA database is easy, as is adding supplements, and creating an ingredient list. Their website has a lot of info about what foods have what vitamins and minerals, too. Note that stuff like rice is for the cooked (water added) weight so you need to do some back calculation to figure out how much dry rice you need to make that amount of cooked rice, for example. 

Not the fastest solution, but helped me understand the details of homecooked food far better and feel confident in the recipe. I keep considering switching to 100% home cooked for Annie, but freezer space holds me back.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I also home cook and started doing it to deal with some low grade chronic issues like bad uring chemistry with risks for development of stones and some sensitivity to something that gave Javelin huge problems with excessive ear wax. I wanted to feed all dogs basically the same ingredients just with adjusted portions so I did nutriscan for all of them to avoid anythings that there were sensitivities to. I ended up with very limited ingredients that worked for all 3 dogs, but was able to come up with a nutritionally complete recipe. Now that Peeves is gone I have been thinking of redoing the NutriScan and hopefully finding some other things I could include that would work for both poodles. It is a lot of work though.


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## I_love_dogs (May 30, 2021)

I had a cockapoo that was allergic to blueberries. Blueberries are frequently used as coloring in pet food because it is all natural. We kept seeing weird patterns of diarrhea with him as a puppy that turned out to be how much of pieces that were colored with blueberries he had. Blueberries are normally good for dogs, so finding a dog food without blueberries was hard.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm sorry, I don't remember his whole dietary dilemma but have you tried increasing fiber to address the soft stool or even the diarrhea? Pure pumpkin (not the pie filling) is my go-to for my boys occasional bouts.


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## Yellow (Sep 24, 2018)

ditto on pumpkin... I feed raw and is super easy. I get Answers or Soft Batch. figure out how many ounces needed a day and thats it. I also add probiotic. my pup needed weight so added cooked whole rolled oats, which would add fiber. I like natural compared to processed. Processed food starts to spoil the minute you open the bag. My toy is feed Farmina and since she is so little and gets small portions I freeze her food and take out a weeks supply. Hopefully it is a little fresher. Making your own food you really need to be sure and get all minerals/ vitamins, etc.


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## Bailey_Whiskey (Jan 18, 2021)

Whiskey has had soft stools and on and off diarrhea too. We eventually figure he has better poop on raw than kibble. But home cooked works in a pinch when I forget to order the raw pre packed food. He is more sensitive to fats and oils compared to my other dogs so he gets very limited table scraps.

I give steamed pumpkin or sweet potatoes in his kong if he gets some diarrhea (frozen to fight the heat here). And add a bit of slippery elm in his dinner. His nutritionist suggested kefir goat milk for the diarrhea too. We do also get diarrhea pills from the vet for times when the above don’t help him and he goes multiple times a day.

When my Shih tzus had diarrhea, Greek yoghurt and pumpkin always fixed it.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Bailey_Whiskey said:


> Whiskey has had soft stools and on and off diarrhea too. We eventually figure he has better poop on raw than kibble. But home cooked works in a pinch when I forget to order the raw pre packed food. He is more sensitive to fats and oils compared to my other dogs so he gets very limited table scraps.
> 
> I give steamed pumpkin or sweet potatoes in his kong if he gets some diarrhea (frozen to fight the heat here). And add a bit of slippery elm in his dinner. His nutritionist suggested kefir goat milk for the diarrhea too. We do also get diarrhea pills from the vet for times when the above don’t help him and he goes multiple times a day.
> 
> When my Shih tzus had diarrhea, Greek yoghurt and pumpkin always fixed it.


Yes Misha is very sensitive to fats and rich meats as well. I have cut out as much fat as possible from his diet which keeps away the loose stools and acid reflux.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Thanks, everyone. I’ve definitely used pumpkin off and on through Bobby’s life but it doesn’t help when it’s really bad. Great for basic soft poo or simple diarrhea. Bobby’s diarrhea got very bad since I first posted this so he is on a prescription now to help and it does seem to be helping. I’m feeding him cooked ground turkey and rice right now which he loves and seems to agree with him. 
I do think I’m going to try homecooked, for now anyway. I’m actually quite nervous to go back to kibble as I just don’t know what is setting things off. So I’m going to take it slow, add one ingredient at a time, journal, research and hopefully come up with a good feeding plan that works for Bobby but is doable for me. I’m thinking I may start a thread to journal this process. I appreciate the feedback from folks here so it would be a great way to keep the information on this subject in one place.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Yes Misha is very sensitive to fats and rich meats as well. I have cut out as much fat as possible from his diet which keeps away the loose stools and acid reflux.


Bobby barfs bile when his tummy is empty (ever since he was a little pup) so maybe a homecooked diet would help with this too.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

I really like Hilary's Blend. Their website has tons of balanced recipes to fit various restrictions, and they have a cookbook you can buy as well. Of course they promote their own vitamin blend but you could use a different one instead.
I'll never forget one dog who was found to be allergic (sensitive?) to tomatoes. You wouldn't think this is a big deal, but tomato pomace is used in lots of foods for the lycopene. He was allergic to other things too but the tomatoes seemed so crazy.


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## Yellow (Sep 24, 2018)

you are searching and trying which is huge. There is a FB group for IBS in dogs. might be worth to join to get ideas also. I have a friend who owns a natural dog food store and her dog can only eat raw rabbit. She also said a good probiotic was Visbiome and they help with amounts for dogs, go slow on everything. Yes, on the journal and sharing for others on this site.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

So unfortunately, we have not been able to get Bobby back to normal poop wise. Talked with the vet and he is on medication again. It’s a stronger dose so hopefully this will work. 😔
I have cooked a bland diet for 11 days and monitored everything so carefully. And while there was improvement, especially when he was on the medication, things were/are very not normal and today, full blown diarrhea again. Going to try a food for sensitive tummies, going slowly, as obviously the cooked bland diet isn’t working.
If this and the medication doesn’t work, back to the vet and I’m guessing we’ll have to explore things further. I’m so bummed.
I really hope to try cooking for Bobby again but it’s definitely not the answer right now.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

A few years ago both my dogs had diarrhoea, first Poppy then Sophy. They were happy, hungry, and not unwell - just prone to the splats. When it didn't stop after a few days of chicken and rice I took them to the vets, who agreed it looked like an infection and prescribed accordingly. A week of medication and sensitivity diet and they improved, only for it to start again. Another cycle of medication, special diet, improvement, splat, then tests (all clear), and more splats until my vet eventually said that the majority of cases were self limiting, so to give it a couple of weeks and if it still didn't improve he would take more samples and consult the University vet schools. And after another week or two it resolved, and we never did find what caused it. It took nearly two months from start to finish, and affected both dogs, So don't despair! Since then I always keep some cans of the sensitivity diet in the cupboard, just in case.

But as a sufferer myself from IBS which for me is not only triggered by certain foods but also by timing of meals and stress I agree it may not just be the food.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Finally, finally, finally I think his guts are back to normal. Bobby finished his second, stronger prescription a couple days ago and he is totally transitioned to his sensitive stomach and skin food. Everything is looking really good. We are currently feeding the Purina Pro Plan salmon sensitive variety and it seems to be agreeing very well with Bobby so far and he likes it so we will stick with this for awhile as I do not want to upset his tummy in any way. Anyone else feed this to their dogs? I’m curious about using it long term. I’ve never fed Purina before.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Well…Bobby’s diarrhea is back with a vengeance. I seriously could just cry. It was good for almost 2 weeks but here we are again. We watch him like a hawk outdoors. He has had nothing except his sensitive diet food, not even his much loved bully sticks. He hasn’t been boarded, around other dogs. Our household is pretty calm so I don’t think there is that sort of trigger. I just feel so helpless. Have a call to the vet again and will discuss this sometime today. I don’t think this is ordinary dog diarrhea. Something is going on. 😢


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Are you using a good pre/pro-biotic? I reckon the Pro-Kolin Enterogenic sachets took around 8 weeks to really take effect, but they do seem to help Poppy.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I’m so sorry, @Spottytoes. Maybe this means you’ve ruled out food as a trigger and your vet can now pursue other possibilities. Hugs to you and Bobby. Let us know what the vet says.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

I just had a nice long chat with the vet. Based on history, the fact that he has had 2 rounds of antibiotics and he’s doing well otherwise, we are going to try a prescription diarrhea food and she said it does have the probiotics. Not what I want but for now it’s worth a try. It’s the fact that it keeps coming back that bothers me. vs something that’s just taking awhile to get over. I know sometimes it can take awhile to normalize but the fact that the pattern seems to be it’s all good and then all of a sudden it’s not makes me think there is a trigger, whatever that would be, who knows? We both agreed that we don’t want to be overloading him with antibiotics if we don’t have to. So the prescription food, for now, is worth a try. Depending upon how it plays out we will move on from there. It’s a start and the conversation is happening. If things don’t improve over the long run I’m guessing IBS will be in the conversation. For now, we just have to get his gut on track.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Have you considered seeking the advice of a holistic veterinarian? That’s not to say you dismiss your vet’s expertise, especially when it comes to diagnostic tools and ruling out anything serious. I especially like that your vet isn’t throwing antibiotics at the problem, which tends to create a whole new set of problems.

But I struggled with digestive issues for decades until a doctor of integrative medicine changed my life with a simple observation. No doctors up to that point (and I’m talking dozens) had _really_ paid attention to my body. And it turned out my “stomach issues” really weren’t about my stomach at all.

Whatever route you go, I’m hoping you all get some relief soon. This is no fun for sweet Bobby and the humans who love him so.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

You've probably gone over most or all of this with your vet thru these incidents, but this is a pretty comprehensive paper, giving the info in one source.

GI Intervention: Approach to Diagnosis & Therapy of the Patient With Acute Diarrhea | Today's Veterinary Practice (todaysveterinarypractice.com)

I don't remember, what tests/labwork/xrays have been done thru these episodes? What, if anything, has been conclusively ruled out? Have causes outside the GI system been considered?


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## Puppy Love (Aug 10, 2015)

My little guy has had problems on and off with soft stool and diarrhea for years. His vet suggested Proviable and it has worked wonders for him. If the new food doesn't work it might be worth a try when Bobby is having a bad bout until you can find out what the root cause is. Wally's vet sells it, but I get it on Chewy as they are much less expensive. 









NUTRAMAX Proviable 30 mL Paste & 10 Capsules with 7 Strains of Bacteria Digestive Health Supplement Kit with Multi-Strain Probiotics & Prebiotics for Medium to Large Dogs - Chewy.com


Buy Nutramax Proviable 30 mL Paste & 10 Capsules with 7 Strains of Bacteria Digestive Health Supplement Kit with Multi-Strain Probiotics & Prebiotics for Medium to Large Dogs at Chewy.com. FREE shipping and the BEST customer service!




www.chewy.com


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Well, the prescription food is definitely working. Things are back to normal poop wise in less than 2 days and no antibiotics or medication. We’ll see how long it lasts. We’ll take it one step at a time for now. If we can get things truly back to normal and his gut healed I will look at diet and good probiotics again but for now, I think we’ll keep him on the prescription food, which does have pro and prebiotics, and is designed for gut health and healing. Being on this food for awhile should give us information too in that if he has another episode while on this food then even more so we would need to consider something that isn’t food related that is causing this.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

That sounds like a good plan. Glad Bobby is feeling better!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Definitely a good plan. After years of relying on chicken and rice for upset tums I discovered the Royal Canin sensitivity food - I now keep cans in the cupboard just in case. It is expensive, and I have to buy it by the case, but worth it for something that actually works.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Well, now I feel like I have a conundrum or perhaps not. The prescription food Bobby is currently on, Science Diet Digestive Fiber Care has been absolutely amazing!!! No digestive issues for almost 2 weeks! In fact, his poop has been the best they have been his whole life! They are the most perfect poops ever! 🤣
I have joked in the past of how often I have to wipe Bobby’s butt and seriously, I don’t even have to do that!!! Also, while I still feed 3 meals a day, he hasn’t barfed bile for 2 weeks, which he generally does at least weekly and…he tended to have the anal gland stinkies and guess what? Nothing! And absolutely hardly any gas and definitely nothing stinky. So…. Providing this continues and he continues to thrive on it, my conundrum is whether I continue this food or not. This is seriously not the brand I would choose but “Wow,” he seems to be doing very well on it. If he begins to have issues with it in any form I would certainly try something else but it really has been magic for his digestive system up to this point and he loves it! He eats every meal and every kibble with enthusiasm. I’m not looking for advice really as food opinions are all over the place and what works for one dog doesn’t necessarily work for another. I am one to say feed what works for you dog but….just not my brand and it seriously is pretty grain heavy. But maybe this is just what Bobby needs and does best on and that’s OK. Anyway, I guess I’m just sharing the conundrum. 

I am curious though, has anyone else fed this food long term? I am definitely interested in your experience.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Spottytoes said:


> Providing this continues and he continues to thrive on it, my conundrum is whether I continue this food or not. This is seriously not the brand I would choose but
> *“Wow,” he seems to be doing very well on it.*
> If he begins to have issues with it in any form I would certainly try something else but
> _i*t really has been magic for his digestive system up to this point and he loves it! He eats every meal and every kibble with enthusiasm.* _
> I’m not looking for advice really as food opinions are all over the place and what works for one dog doesn’t necessarily work for another. I am one to say feed what works for you dog but….just not my brand and it seriously is pretty grain heavy. But maybe this is just what Bobby needs and does best on and that’s OK. Anyway, I guess I’m just sharing the conundrum.


I have no experience with this food, but so long as he's doing this extraordinarily well on it, I don't see any conundrum. You're looking to do what's best for him, and for now at least, you seem to have found it!
You also mentioned that it was grain heavy. What's your concern for that?

I'm trying to find a Hill's product with that exact name to look it over but not finding one. I do find Hill's with labels of Sensitive Stomach, Perfect Digestion, Digestive Care. or Gastrointestinal Biome Digestive Fiber. 
There may be even more. Is it one of these or another of the Hills products?


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

The balance of nutrition and ingredients, which might account for the grains - for additional fiber maybe - is what's most important to consider. 

Paraphrasing Team Hellhound and a few others, "If he likes it and is doing well on it, then it's a good food for for him". 

Copying some info about determining what goes into good and balanced foods.

_Balanced diet isn't just having a range of ingredients, it's also a proper combination of nutrients and how those ingredients mix with each other to provide proper nutrition.

Here's some resources to help you determine whether a food will be nutritious and healthy for your poodle. A food doesn't need to be expensive to be very good so don't let that be too big a criteria. After you find a couple to try, your poodle will likely have the final say .

About ingredient lists:

*Why you shouldn’t judge a pet food by its ingredient list*
Although ingredient lists are commonly used by pet owners and most pet food rating sites to determine the quality of pet foods, this approach has many pitfalls and usually is not a good way to select a food.
vetnutrition.tufts.edu

*Some tips on deciphering dog food labels from:*
Best Dog Food: How to Know What's Right for Your Dog (akc.org)
How to Read a Dog Food Label – American Kennel Club
Your best tool for deciding what to feed your dog is right on the can or bag. But first, you need to know how to read a dog food label.
www.akc.org www.akc.org

Pet Food Labels - General | FDA
Animal Food & Feeds | FDA
Pet Food Labels
The pet food label contains a wealth of information, if one knows how to read it.
www.fda.gov www.fda.gov


*It's Not Just Grain Free

It’s Not Just Grain-Free: An Update on Diet-Associated Dilated Cardiomyopathy*
Dr. Freeman provides an update on diet-associated dilated cardiomyopathy in dogs
vetnutrition.tufts.edu

*Questions You Should Be Asking

Questions You Should Be Asking About Your Pet’s Food*
How can you tell about the quality and nutritional expertise of a pet food company? Here are some questions savvy owners should ask companies to select the best possible food for their pets.
vetnutrition.tufts.edu

*Selecting The Best Food - World Small Animal Veterinary Association*
https://wsava.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Selecting-the-Best-Food-for-your-Pet.pdf

*AAFCO - Association of American Feed Control Officials
The Role of AAFCO in Pet Food Regulation*

talkspetfood.aafco.org

I wouldn't rule a company out automatically because they have a large advertising budget. That kind of company can probably afford to have veterinary nutritionists on staff to formulate the various foods for various sizes, special needs, and stages.

If you prefer to stick with smaller manufacturers rather than big name companies, remember to look for the AAFCO label on the food, and something I knew to research on appliances but didn't think of doing for dog food til another recent thread. Search for "Who makes *___* dog food?". You might get some surprises, Some familiar names seem to have been traded around like major league athletes for some years now.

Look for the AAFCO label or stamp on any food. FDA and local and state agencies all play a role in regulating pet food and participate in the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO)External Link Disclaimer. While AAFCO itself has no regulatory authority, this voluntary association of local, state, and federal feed control officials works to:
_

_Safeguard the health of animals and people;_
_Ensure consumer protection; and_
_Provide a level playing field of orderly commerce for the animal feed industry._
_
*Food for thought*

“My primary recommendation would be to look at nutrients rather than ingredients in foods,” says Wortinger*. “The body does not care if the meat is chicken, beef, or reindeer; what it cares about is the amino acids included in the food. The body does not care whether the fat is animal or plant-based, but whether all the essential fatty acids are present. Look at nutrients, not marketing,” she says.

“As with any grain, when higher levels are included in the diet, protein digestibility can go down. That is why there are no ‘all grain’ diets for dogs or cats,” she says. “As a grain, it has a biologic value [a measure of the amount of essential amino acids in a food] of 74; muscle meats, such as beef and chicken, have a BV of about 75. Egg is the gold standard for BV at 100, with whey and casein [milk proteins] just below that.

“When corn is combined with other plant products, they together can easily reach a BV of 100. All plants, due to their cellulose layers, have decreased digestibility when compared to meats. But when ground and cooked, so that the cellulose layer is broken, digestibility is comparable,” Wortinger noted.

*Ann Wortinger BIS, LVT, VTS (ECC, SAIM, Nutrition). She is a veterinary nutritionist who has worked in the field for more than 20 years and is currently the hospital administrator for Animal Cancer and Imaging Center in Canton, Mich.

Jennifer Larsen, DVM, PhD, DACVN, is an associate professor of clinical nutrition at the Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital (VMTH) at the University of California, Davis. She also does clinical nutritional consulting through the VMTH Nutrition Support Service. She says, “Grains, and any other single category or individual ingredients, are neither good nor bad.

“Rather, what is important is how the ingredients work together to create the full nutritional profile of the diet. Likewise, carbohydrates, as an energy source, are utilized by the body the same way regardless of source, such as grain, legume, or tubers, and different sources of carbohydrates also bring other nutrients, such as fiber, fatty acids, and amino acids. Again, no ingredient has a simple effect since each provides multiple nutrients, and it’s not consumed in a vacuum.”

“It’s important to think of food in terms of energy; animals need energy to live,” says Robert Backus, DVM, PhD, DACVN; he is associate professor and director of the Nestle-Purina Endowed Small Animal Nutrition Program at the University of Missouri. “That energy comes from protein, fats, and carbohydrates. The question is creating the most efficient mix. You could do that with all protein, but the animal would then burn protein for energy, which is inefficient.”

Rebecca Remillard, PhD, DVM, DACVN
*Myth #3:* One can evaluate the ‘quality’ of a pet food by reading the ingredient list.

Remillard says, “Despite aggressive marketing campaigns by various manufacturers and self-appointed websites, the ingredient list according to AAFCO [the Association of American Feed Control Officials] should not impart any information regarding the quality, nutritional balance, or digestibility of the pet food product.

“The ingredient list was simply not designed, or is not regulated, as a measure of pet food quality. So the source of meat or carbohydrates in a pet food is not important to the nutritional profile in a complete and balanced product,” she notes.

*Myth #4:* Corn/grains are non-nutritive ‘fillers.’
_

_Whole grains contribute more fiber and vitamins while ground grains are more digestible and provide more protein. Which is chosen will depend on what other ingredients are contained in the food._
_“I've heard concerns about them [grains] being ‘filler,’ which is nonsense,” Larsen says. “They are added because they contribute energy and other essential nutrients, as well as very useful dietary components, such as fiber, which is an underappreciated nutrient.”

Cline similarly relates that corn and other grains can be part of a nutritious pet diet: “Depending on how grains are processed, they can be highly digestible. Some grains contribute dietary fiber to pet foods, which can play an important role in intestinal health.

“Although fiber is not a required nutrient, I find that it can be very beneficial in optimizing the stool quality and the overall health of my patients. Grain-free diets can provide optimal nutrition for cat and dogs, however diets containing grain can do the same.”

Source Busting Myths, Corn and Grain - Best Friends Veterinary Center_


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I’m so happy for you and Bobby! If he’s anything like Peggy, as long as his poops stay impeccably firm, he’ll have no more fish butt. And that’s _for sure _something to celebrate.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

If it's nutritionally good, I'd stick with it. Sounds like just what your looking for (when faced with a digestive issue)! Is it affordable?


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Rose n Poos said:


> I have no experience with this food, but so long as he's doing this extraordinarily well on it, I don't see any conundrum. You're looking to do what's best for him, and for now at least, you seem to have found it!
> You also mentioned that it was grain heavy. What's your concern for that?
> 
> I'm trying to find a Hill's product with that exact name to look it over but not finding one. I do find Hill's with labels of Sensitive Stomach, Perfect Digestion, Digestive Care. or Gastrointestinal Biome Digestive Fiber.
> There may be even more. Is it one of these or another of the Hills products?


It’s the Gastrointestinal Biome Digestive Fiber Care prescription diet.
It really isn’t a conundrum, really. I’m actually thrilled. It just feels like one as this brand is so maligned online so I’ve always avoided it as are foods with heavy grains. I actually tried a couple high end grain free kibbles last year and they definitely did not agree with Bobby. I’ve pretty much always fed Bobby grain inclusive as I do think he does better with it but never anything with this much grain or corn. The first ingredient is chicken. Anyway, it’s been absolutely magical for him , at least for now. 😊 It does have a lot of fiber! 🤣


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Rose n Poos said:


> The balance of nutrition and ingredients, which might account for the grains - for additional fiber maybe - is what's most important to consider.
> 
> Paraphrasing Team Hellhound and a few others, "If he likes it and is doing well on it, then it's a good food for for him".
> 
> ...


Thank you! I just read the Busting Myths, Corn and Grain article yesterday! 😊


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I’m so happy for you and Bobby! If he’s anything like Peggy, as long as his poops stay impeccably firm, he’ll have no more fish butt. And that’s _for sure _something to celebrate.


So true!!! I still can’t get over how firm and perfect the poops are! 🤣


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

94Magna_Tom said:


> If it's nutritionally good, I'd stick with it. Sounds like just what your looking for (when faced with a digestive issue)! Is it affordable?


It is expensive but honestly, it’s worth it to me if it works so well for Bobby.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Spottytoes said:


> It really isn’t a conundrum, really. I’m actually thrilled. It just feels like one as this brand is so maligned online so I’ve always avoided it as are foods with heavy grains.


And this is where the sources of malignment (is that a word?) matter greatly. 

I'm very happy for you and Bobby!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Because of the nature of my health issues, I typically feel better after a big beige meal from McDonald’s than I do after one of my absolute favourite dishes—a gorgeous fresh salad topped with grilled chicken breast. I’ve spent a lifetime trying to understand the reasons for this and I’m not going to waste a second more trying to explain it to anyone. You don’t have to explain your choices either _or_ feel bad about them. Every body has unique needs. It’s great that you’ve figured out something that works well for Bobby.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

Science Diet really helped Asta with his constipation and diarrhea. He went to perfect poops with no problems.I use the Science Diet Light not a prescription formula. He loves it! And a bonus is that his coat is also much improved. Maybe when he is better you could transition to a regular Science Diet. I only have good things to say about Science Diet.


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