# Sticky  What's the height and weight of your poodle?



## twyla

Those are for being shown there can be oversized and undersized in each variety

That said my toy boy Leonard is 11" and square and 6 pounds and toy Pia is 10 1/2" and 13" long and 8 1/2 pounds.


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## TeamHellhound

The English and FCI standards are slightly different in regards to size, and FCI has a fourth size, called medium (moyen). 

As best I can tell, Simon is 24" at ten and a half months, and he weighed 44.5 pounds yesterday afternoon. According to his breeder, his sire is 25" tall and weighs 52 pounds, and his dam is 27" tall and weighs 60 pounds.


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## Mel

Name : Sandy
Breed: Miniature Poodle though technically Standard size by going by height. Mini bloodlines
Height: 16 Inches
Age: 10yrs in a few weeks
Weight : last time I checked was 20lbs she is probably up a lb or 2. Weight has been a problem since she was spayed. Unspayed she was perfect at 17-18lbs. I don’t the look of sausage dogs so I’m on top of it.

Name: Nova
Breed: Miniature Poodle (Sandy is her dam)
Age: 2 1/2
Height: 13.75
Weight : 10.5 lbs She needs to gain a lb but is very active and not big on meals. She is much more petite in bone than Sandy.


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## Johanna

Name: Zoe
Breed: Miniature Poodle
Age: 4
Height: 14 1/2
Weight: 11 lbs
This might indicate that she is thin, but she is rather fine-boned, so her weight is appropriate. She is very, very active.


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## Tulsi

Rusty
Miniature x toy poodle
10 months
12 inches high
17.6lbs ie 8kg
Nicely covered and very playful and active.


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## Dechi

Merlin, toy, 12.5 inches and 6.0 lbs
Beckie, mini, 12.5 inches and 8.0 (usually, now she is 9.0 with winter and being less active)

Beckie has bigger bones, she is more solid. Merlin is delicate.


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## Raindrops

Misha, 3 yr old mini from mini lines, 14.75" and 15.5 lbs


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## PeggyTheParti

Name: Peggy Sue
Breed: Standard Poodle
Age: 2.5 years
Height: 23.5”
Weight: 48.6 lbs


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## WinnieThePoodle

Winnie - one and a half years old
Mini x oversized toy 
16 inches
21 lbs
Muscular build


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## Tierna

Name: Beau
he is also a Mini x oversized toy (I call him a mini)
2yrs old
about 16.5 inches
and a slightly stocky 20lbs


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## Pavie

Thanks for sharing everybody! (I'll continue to add to the plot if there are more replies)

I also combined the information from previous posts on weight and height:








Weight & Height


I finally got around to measuring the Poodles' height and got their weights at the vet's. Matisse grew a tad taller since the last time I got his height. He is a whopping 10 & 5/8 inches and 7 lbs. I measured with a helper to hold a rather short level on the withers. It is always possible...




www.poodleforum.com












Sizing: Can I see everyone’s miniature poodle with their...


Hello all! We are eagerly awaiting for our puppy to arrive home soon. I was looking for a moyen size but had a harder time finding one. The puppy we will be getting is miniature. His mom is 14 inch around 17 pounds and dad is 11 inches and 12-13 pounds. I’m hoping the puppy will follow the moms...




www.poodleforum.com





Here's the summary:










Looks like we have a nice clear pattern between height and weight!











Here's the code used to generate the plot:
import pandas as pd
df = pd.read_csv("height_weight.csv")
import plotly.express as px
fig = px.scatter(df, x="Height", y="Weight", color="Breed", text=list(df["Name"]))
fig.update_traces(textposition='top center')


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## 94Magna_Tom

Name: Elroy 
Height: 25"
Weight: 59.2 lbs
Age: 45 weeks 
Type: Standard Poodle


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## cowpony

Neato. Here are the numbers for my standard boys
Galen, 2 years, 24.5", 50 pounds
Ritter, 11 months, 26.5'' 68 pounds


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## Misteline

Evelyn male standard, 2.5 y/o, 25", 48lbs.


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## 94Magna_Tom

cowpony said:


> Neato. Here are the numbers for my standard boys
> Galen, 2 years, 24.5", 50 pounds
> Ritter, 11 months, 26.5'' 68 pounds


Ritter is huge! 😍
Were you expecting this?


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## PeggyTheParti

Love this, @Pavie!


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## For Want of Poodle

Annie
Standard poodle
25"
3 years
60 lbs - she should be 55!


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## a2girl

Hugo
Miniature by parentage
11 months old
18” and 26 lbs. He is taller than both parents; his dam is oversized at 16” and his sire within mini standard.


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## Puppy Love

Name: Wally
Age: 5 yrs
Breed: Toy Poodle
Height: 10.5"
Weight 4.2 lbs 
He is very fine-boned, with very narrow shoulders and hips so his weight is actually perfect.


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## cowpony

94Magna_Tom said:


> Ritter is huge! 😍
> Were you expecting this?


Not at all. I actually went with this litter because his mother was a small girl, and his dad was around 55 pounds. I didn't want Galen getting bullied by a huge dog. Luckily Galen seems capable of handling Ritter despite the size difference.


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## 94Magna_Tom

cowpony said:


> Not at all. I actually went with this litter because his mother was a small girl, and his dad was around 55 pounds. I didn't want Galen getting bullied by a huge dog. Luckily Galen seems capable of handling Ritter despite the size difference.


Same thing (bigger than his 52 lb sire) with Elroy 🤣😍!


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## Piper Bear

Name: Piper
Miniature Poodle female
Height: 13.5 inches
Weight: 12.5 pounds
square shape


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## Rose n Poos

Nice work, Pavie! 

FTR, Neo and Remo are 4y 8m 9d


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## Happy'sDad

Finally got around to doing this. Here are Happy's stats:

Name: Happy
Height: 22"
Weight: 41 lbs
Age: 20 Months
Type: Standard Poodle (female)


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## MaizieFrosty

Name: Maizie
Height: 24"
Weight: 48 lbs.
Age: 6 1/2 years
Type: Standard

Name: Frosty
Height: 25 3/4"
Weight: 57 lbs.
Age: 5 years
Type: Standard

Both in perfect condition - they know exactly how much they need to eat, they have a ton of muscle, and no body fat!


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## cowpony

What's interesting to me is how many dogs are over the size limit for their category. As I was looking at the chart my first impression was there was a gap where moyen poodles should be. Then I looked closer. No, there are plenty of miniature and even toy x miniature crosses in the moyen size range. What's missing is the standard range. Simon, Dulcie, and Peggy Sue are the only dogs in the correct range for standards, and even they are pushing the upper end. All the rest of the standard poodles are oversized. 

I wonder if the absence of smaller standards is contributing to the popularity of some of the smaller doodle crosses. A lot of cockapoos and even some of the smaller golden doodles are in the 25 to 35 pound range.


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## For Want of Poodle

@lily cd re ? For the science? You have smaller spoos I think. 

@Click-N-Treat - Noelle?

I'd also love to see more poodles in the current gap. I think there are more stats in the depths of the forum archives. 

And some more of the 28-30" huge poodles which I know are running around. 

@Charlie's Person ?


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## twyla

My past poodles
My toy Baby was 13" and 9 pounds
My mini Fannie was 12"tall and 14" long and 15 pounds
Her daughter Flower 10" tall 12" long 10 pounds
Fannie's daughter and Flower's sister Cappi was 10" tall 12" long 8 1/2 pounds
Beatrice was 10 " 3/4 tall almost 14" long 9 1/2 pounds


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## MaizieFrosty

cowpony said:


> What's interesting to me is how many dogs are over the size limit for their category. As I was looking at the chart my first impression was there was a gap where moyen poodles should be. Then I looked closer. No, there are plenty of miniature and even toy x miniature crosses in the moyen size range. What's missing is the standard range. Simon, Dulcie, and Peggy Sue are the only dogs in the correct range for standards, and even they are pushing the upper end. All the rest of the standard poodles are oversized.
> 
> I wonder if the absence of smaller standards is contributing to the popularity of some of the smaller doodle crosses. A lot of cockapoos and even some of the smaller golden doodles are in the 25 to 35 pound range.


What are you going off of, cowpony? The PCA website says most standards are in the 22-27" range and there is no such thing as "oversize" for standards. The AKC website lists the height of standards at "over 15" with female standards being in the 40-50 lb. range and males in the 60-70 lb. range (now that seems higher than average). If you look at show dogs, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe most bitches are 21-24" and most dogs are 24-26".


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## cowpony

MaizieFrosty said:


> What are you going off of, cowpony? The PCA website says most standards are in the 22-27" range and there is no such thing as "oversize" for standards. The AKC website lists the height of standards at "over 15" with female standards being in the 40-50 lb. range and males in the 60-70 lb. range (now that seems higher than average). If you look at show dogs, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe most bitches are 21-24" and most dogs are 24-26".


I'm going off the FCI standard, as quoted below. Top end is 60 cm, which is roughly 23.5"

_Standard Poodles: Over 45 cm up to 60 cm with a tolerance of +2 cm. The Standard Poodle must be the enlarged and developed replica of the Medium Poodle of which it retains the same characteristics. 
Medium Poodles: Over 35 cm up to 45 cm.
Miniature Poodles: Over 28 cm up to 35 cm. The Miniature Poodle must display the appearance of a reduced Medium Poodle, retaining as much as possible the same proportions and without presenting any sign of dwarfism.
Toy Poodles: Over 24 cm (with a tolerance of -1cm) up to 28 cm (sought after ideal: 25 cm). The Toy Poodle maintains, in its ensemble, the aspect of a Miniature Poodle and the same general proportions complying with all the points of the standard. Any sign of dwarfism is excluded; only the external occipital protuberance may be less pronounced._


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## cowpony

Pogo was 26.5" and 70 pounds in his prime.


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## MaizieFrosty

cowpony said:


> I'm going off the FCI standard, as quoted below. Top end is 60 cm, which is roughly 23.5"


Thank you, very interesting!

Edited because I see you're in the USA!


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## Click-N-Treat

Name: Noelle
Age: 6 yrs
Breed: Miniature Poodle
Height: 16"
Weight 21 lbs


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## Starla

I can’t think off the top of my head any members that would be FCI with standards… There isn’t an upper limit on akc or ckc, which is where most of our dogs are from/registered.


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## For Want of Poodle

Click-N-Treat said:


> Name: Noelle
> Age: 6 yrs
> Breed: Miniature Poodle
> Height: 16"
> Weight 21 lbs


Thank you!

For some reason I thought she was 20". I guess she has a personality way bigger than her size


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## Pavie

Thanks for the support everyone! The data table and plot has been updated accordingly. It seems that the names of individual poodles are getting a bit hard to see due to many data points being close together, so I made some additional plots by breed. The regression line was fitted using ordinary least squares.


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## Pavie

cowpony said:


> there are plenty of miniature and even toy x miniature crosses in the moyen size range.
> 
> All the rest of the standard poodles are oversized.


Yeah! I noticed that too when I was making the table. Many oversized toys that were above 10" tall, and many minis and toy x mini poodles that are over 15" tall. I don't know enough about standards personally (I originally thought any poodle over 15" would be considered a standard in competitions).



cowpony said:


> I wonder if the absence of smaller standards is contributing to the popularity of some of the smaller doodle crosses. A lot of cockapoos and even some of the smaller golden doodles are in the 25 to 35 pound range.


When researching goldendoodles, my impression that those in the 25-35 lb range are usually either golden x toy poodle (might need artificial insemination), or backcrossed with the toy or miniature poodle twice (goldendoodle x toy/mini). And some are multi-gen, which could be more complicated, and include both toy and mini in the ancestry. 



cowpony said:


> _Toy Poodles: Over 24 cm (with a tolerance of -1cm) up to 28 cm (sought after ideal: 25 cm). The Toy Poodle maintains, in its ensemble, the aspect of a Miniature Poodle and the same general proportions complying with all the points of the standard. Any sign of dwarfism is excluded; only the external occipital protuberance may be less pronounced._


Interesting... 24 cm is 9.44882 inches and 28 cm is 11.0236 inches. However, the AKC standard is below 10 inches. I wonder if toys bred to met the AKC standards might be smaller?


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## Phaz23

Tekno
16 months
10” shoulder
long boy, about 11-12” back
5lbs ish


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## Rose n Poos

ETA: Who sets the breed standards?
In the US, the official breed club writes the standards and the AKC accepts them. AKC I suppose could reject something but I don't know if that's ever happened. 
Other countries, other registries, other breed clubs may operate differently.

From the current poodle breed standard as accepted by AKC:
_The Toy Poodle is 10 inches or under at the highest point of the shoulders. Any Poodle which is more than 10 inches at the highest point of the shoulders shall be disqualified from competition as a Toy Poodle.
As long as the Toy Poodle is definitely a Toy Poodle, and the Miniature Poodle a Miniature Poodle, both in balance and proportion for the Variety, diminutiveness shall be the deciding factor when all other points are equal._

(I'm still trying to decipher what this means. Deciding factor in what? Help!) 

The height (and even weight for some time) has varied from registry to registry since the clubs began to be formed in the late 1800's.
There's also been some deliberate crossing by breeders in the US and outside at times to improve certain traits so the toys going oversize have historical genetics behind them.

The Kennel Club (UK) current toy standard
Poodles (toy): height at shoulder should be under 28 cms (11 ins).
This makes their miniature
Poodles (Miniature): height at shoulder should be under 38 cms (15 ins) but not under 28 cms (11 ins).
Standard poodles have no upper limit here.

I read somewhere that I've not found again that Standard poodles were averaging closer to 20-21" at the turn of the 20th century. If that's true then standards have been slowly bred bigger which could explain part of the wide gap from miniatures of any registry not including the FCI medium to standards in real life.

The Poodle Club (1886)
The Toy Poodle should resemble the Poodle in every respect except:
Coat: often softer and silky.
Height: under 12 inches.
Weight: under 10 pounds.

Standard published in the United States in 1901
Weight limits: The weights are divided into sizes, viz: Large size, over 40 pounds. Medium size, over 20 pounds to 40 pounds inclusive. Small size, 20 pounds or under.

Standard set by The Poodle Club in England in 1886 and published in the United States in 1905
The Toy Poodle: The Toy Poodle should resemble the Poodle in every respect except: Coat: often softer and silky. Height: under 12 inches. Weight: under 10 pounds. (This was added in 1905 in U.S.) 

Standard published in the United States in 1916 is identical except:
The Toy Poodle: is all white. The Toy should not exceed 12 inches at the shoulder, be not over 10 pounds, and be a miniature of the full-sized dog. The coat must be very profuse and of a soft silky nature. 

Standard published by The American Kennel Club in the first edition of Pure-Bred dogs in 1929
Weight: Miniature 12 to 20 pounds; large over 20 pounds.

Standard for Poodles as approved 1959
The Board of Directors of The American Kennel Club
11. Size
The Standard Poodle is over 15 inches at the withers. Any Poodle which is 15 inches or less in height shall be disqalified from competition as a Standard Poodle.
The Miniature Poodle is 15 inches or under at the withers, with a minimum height in excess of 10 inches. Any Poodle which is over 15 inches or 10 inches or less at the withers shall be disqualified from competition as a Miniature Poodle.
The Toy Poodle is 10 inches or under at the withers. Any Poodle which is more than 10 inches at the withers shall be disqualified from competition as a Toy Poodle.

PBSTD5 (archive.org)


These are first hand articles written by some well known breeders about some history from the turn of the 20th century to the mid-late 1930's. Iv'e never gotten around to putting them together to see if or how the first hand accounts tally with these few examples of breed standards.

Articles from the 1930's by Alice Lang Rogers (Mrs. Byron Rogers; Misty Isles) and Hayes Blake Hoyt (Blakeen), and others.

*Alice Lang Rogers, The Miniature Poodle: Glimpses Past and Future (Mrs. Rogers was AKC Gazette Poodle columnist during the later 1930's; this may come from the Gazette, 1937.)*

"In the year 1905 the English Kennel Club separated Miniature Poodles from the Standards and put the former on the toy dog register. This proved to be so detrimental to the breed that in 1924 the governing body took them out of the toy section, and, while keeping them as a distinct variety with separate championships, the interbreeding between them and the Standard again became legal.

"As everyone knows, it was from the small or medium Standard Poodle that Miniatures were evolved, so in all pedigrees we go back, many generations ago, to well known dogs of the large variety. In England, still today, puppies are not eligible to compete in Miniature classification; this clause was put in during those early days as a safeguard against an immature Standard Poodle winning as Miniature in its youth and later growing to large Poodle size.

"It was not until 1933 that Miniature Poodles were given a separate classification in this country. Previous to this time, they were shown in the Toy Poodle section,

In spite of the fact that in this year the AKC gave the Miniatures their own classes they are still looked upon here as merely a variety of Standard Poodles, and today any Poodle weighing less than 12 pounds may be registered and shown as a Toy Poodle.

"Quite recently we have taken a big step in advance; the AKC has agreed to allow a class for specials only in the Miniature variety as distinct from the Standards, and the supporters of the little fellows are very much elated.

"When one remembers that only four years have elapsed since we had our first recognition as a distinct variety [by which we infer date of publication: 1937], we need not despair; and our next hope is that we shall be granted the right to Stud Book registrations under our own title and our own place in the non-sporting division as a separate breed, not merely as an off-shoot of the Standards.

"More and more, too, do we find judges looking for Poodle type over mere diminutiveness, and this is a step in the right direction. Far be it from me to sponsor the 15-inch Miniature, but we must have substance, good quarters and "big-littleness"

Our greatest selling point just now is that we can offer a really typical Poodle in small bulk, but our market does not, and should not, come from the people who are looking for a Toy dog in any sense of the word. For this reason a good many people really prefer, as a pet, the Miniature which, strictly speaking we would feel unwilling to bench on account of a possible 14-3/4 inches of height. This gives us a ready market for our occasional big fellows - and beautiful Poodles they are as a rule. As our breeding operations progress we will of course produce fewer and fewer of the over-14-inch dogs (if we breed successfully that is) because each generation properly mated will have less and less hereditary tendency to size.

*Hayes Blake Hoyt, "Poodles Across the Pond" (Popular Dogs, 1937)*

I would say that the American Standard surpasses its English cousin in head and feet, but that the English Poodle is still ahead of us in size and coat. The English coats, as a rule, are magnificent, of the right texture and quality and absolutely free of mats. The size of the English Standard Poodles is truly astonishing, as most of the winning dogs in England are very large-boned and considerably bigger than our winning dogs here. The Miniatures, as a whole, are rather better than most of ours, and here again the English prefer the larger Miniature to the very small one; that is, a Miniature right up to 14-1/2 inches rather than 10 or 12 inches!

Andress (archive.org)


Genetic Diversity Testing for Toy Poodles (VGL UCDavis)

There is a theory that Maltese or Havanese may have been crossed to poodles prior to the 1800’s to produce Toy Poodles as suggested by the silky coats found in early toys.1 The present DNAbased study also boosts this theory. The first Toy Poodles depicted in Europe were usually white or white with markings and used to hunt truffles or act as companions. Small white toys from the European continent are thought to have been the foundation for the breed in both the UK and the US. Toy Poodles (which were white) were established as a breed in the United States as far back as 1896 and the first Toy champion was recorded in 1910. Shortly after that time Toy Poodles were accepted as a breed by the AKC, separate from other Poodles. These early Toys were small (3.5 to 5 lbs.) and did not have the same type as the Miniature and Standard Poodles. The breed standard proposed by the International Toy Poodle Club in Philadelphia was published by the AKC in the official book of breed standards in 1929 and had a required weight maximum of 12 pounds. A height maximum of 10 inches was added subsequently to prevent larger dogs from dominating in shows1 .

According to Mackey Irick (“The New Poodle”, 1986),1 many US Toy Poodles can be traced back to CH Happy Chappy, born in 1932 bred by Florence Orsie. Happy Chappy is also the sire of the first colored Toy champion, a silver produced by breeding him to a silver miniature. In 1940, registration papers were revoked for these inter-variety offspring with the argument that these dogs were not true Toy Poodles. Research presented by EE. Ferguson to the AKC resulted in a reversal of this decision, and Toy Poodles were placed within the Poodle breed as a size variety instead of as a separate breed in 1943. Between the 1940s and the 1980s many Toy to Miniature crosses were done to try to improve the type of the existing Toy Poodles and add new colors. This type of breeding continued until the 1970’s or 1980’s, after which most breeding was kept mainly within the variety and within colors1 . Although the result of crossing the original Toys to Miniatures improved head, length of leg, length of body, and coat, it has made it difficult to produce well typed dogs within the desired height of 9.5 to 10 inches at the shoulder. The height issue continues to be one of the biggest challenges for breeders2 .

ToyPoodle20191010.pdf (ucdavis.edu)



















Dogs of all nations : Mason, Walter Esplin, 1867- : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
published 1915

I'd love to find more on the history of all these changes and see how they've brought poodles to where they are now.


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## Tulsi

Superb imformation.


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## curlflooffan

So as I am European I have an FCI poodle. Not only does FCI have 4 varieties rather than 3 but the size limitations are slightly different for the toys and miniatures compared to non-FCI countries who have only 3 varieties. I suppose that you can call Evra a miniature but I prefer to call her a dwarf, or a FCI dwarf to distinguish her from AKC miniatures. Dwarf is just the term used in a lot of germanic languages for miniatures. 

Evra is around 7.5 months old and last time I measured she was roughly 30cm and 3kg. She probably won't get any taller but she will fill out some more. I would be very surprised if she goes over 5kg, I think she will probably be around 4kg. 

She is perfectly in the middle for her variety but I think that if she were to be shown in the US she would be too big for the toy group and although she would be allowed to compete as a miniature. She probably wouldn't be very successful because she is so small. Am I correct in this assessment @Johanna ?


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## EJStevenP

Name: Thomas
Age: 14 years
Breed: Toy Poodle
Height: Around 10-11 inches
Weight: 13 pounds
He was from a shady breeder so his proportions are all wrong. Still my number one little guy.

Name: Lucy
Age: 3 years
Breed: Standard Poodle
Height: 22-23 inches
Weight: 50 pounds
Now that's she's lost weight she has great proportions and looks like the breed standard. Looks a lot like her mother.

Name: Ethel
Age: 9 months
Breed: Standard Poodle
Height: Last I checked (and could get her to hold still) 26 inches
Weight: 60 pounds
Still growing. Vet guesses she will be 30 inches and 80-85 pounds. All legs and very muscular. Mother is HUGE and Father is also on the large side. 

Name: Jeffrey
Age: 5 months
Breed: Standard Poodle
Height: Too wiggly however he looks to be half of Lucy's height
Weight: 35 pounds
Half brother to Lucy (same mom). So far his height and length seem to be in proportion. Still has puppy floof on his body so it's hard to see what's underneath. Vet guesses he will be 65 pounds which is in line with his father.


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## Oonapup

Interesting. The pattern I noticed was that under 14 or so inches, the minis and toys tend to weigh less in lbs than their height in inches. Around 15 inches, they start to weigh more than their height in inches, with lots of oversized minis around 15-16 inches but closer to 20 lbs. And most of the standards are close to double their inch height# in lbs.


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## Fluffy Poodle 4

Stella: standard, 3 years, 25", 49.5 lbs
Stella is a bit longer in her back, but has a leaner frame.
Lily: standard, 2.75 years, 25", 49.5 lbs
Lily is square, but has a slightly more stocky frame (though still an appropriate weight).


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## Pavie

EJStevenP said:


> Still growing. Vet guesses she will be 30 inches and 80-85 pounds. All legs and very muscular. Mother is HUGE and Father is also on the large side.


I can't wait to see how she will end up!


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## Apricot mini momma

Name: Beau
Height: 18.5” square
Weight: 24.5 lbs.
Age: 15 months on Jan 20, gets neutered Jan 20 😯
Type: Mini

Thin and strong young pup.


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## Johanna

curlflooffan said:


> So as I am European I have an FCI poodle. Not only does FCI have 4 varieties rather than 3 but the size limitations are slightly different for the toys and miniatures compared to non-FCI countries who have only 3 varieties. I suppose that you can call Evra a miniature but I prefer to call her a dwarf, or a FCI dwarf to distinguish her from AKC miniatures. Dwarf is just the term used in a lot of germanic languages for miniatures.
> 
> Evra is around 7.5 months old and last time I measured she was roughly 30cm and 3kg. She probably won't get any taller but she will fill out some more. I would be very surprised if she goes over 5kg, I think she will probably be around 4kg.
> 
> She is perfectly in the middle for her variety but I think that if she were to be shown in the US she would be too big for the toy group and although she would be allowed to compete as a miniature. She probably wouldn't be very successful because she is so small. Am I correct in this assessment @Johanna ?


Yes, it would be difficult for an FCI dwarf to compete in the US. People who show toy and miniature poodles here tend to show ones that are just a bit under the maximum height. The allowable maximum size for AKC toys is 25.4 cm. AKC miniatures are 25.4 to 38.1 cm.


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## DogtorDoctor

Late to the party!

Name: Jango
Height: 27.5"
Weight: 61 lbs
Age: 10 months
Type: Standard

Jango is actually from a frozen semen litter, by a dog born in the late 90s. I always wonder how many of his differences are a result of two individual dogs versus being by a dog bred in a different decade. Random thoughts.


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## curlflooffan

Johanna said:


> Yes, it would be difficult for an FCI dwarf to compete in the US. People who show toy and miniature poodles here tend to show ones that are just a bit under the maximum height. The allowable maximum size for AKC toys is 25.4 cm. AKC miniatures are 25.4 to 38.1 cm.


Yeah I think that's why FCI has 4 sizes instead of 3. It is to give the dwarfs a fighting chance in the ring. At least the story that I heard was that it was because there were a lot of dogs who were too big for the toy group but got a little bit lost among the dogs now considered to be mediums but who were otherwise excellent examples of their breed. There is a lot of overlap between the toy and dwarf lines, breeding between the two still happens. Which I think is fine, they are extremely similar in structure, the gap between the variety is not the same as the gap between the AKC toys and miniatures.

I like the dwarf size, it's very convenient. Small enough to be carried comfortably, it is still a very small dog but just a little bit sturdier than the toy.


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## EVpoodle

Name: Evie
Age: 3.5 years
Height: 25.5" 
Weight: 38.2 lbs. 
Variety: Standard. 

Even though according to the vet she is a the proper weight most people are shocked by the fact that she is so light.


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## Kimotee

TeamHellhound said:


> The English and FCI standards are slightly different in regards to size, and FCI has a fourth size, called medium (moyen).
> 
> As best I can tell, Simon is 24" at ten and a half months, and he weighed 44.5 pounds yesterday afternoon. According to his breeder, his sire is 25" tall and weighs 52 pounds, and his dam is 27" tall and weighs 60 pounds.


We like big, robust Standards....our girl Roxy stands 26" and is 65 pounds. Her sire (Archie the Great of Topnotch) stood 30" and weighed in at 100 pounds


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## Blazenoliver

Oliver (4 years) is a very small mini. 10" and about 11 lb. I don't know how tall Blaze (10 years) (SPOO) is but he weighs 63lb.


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## Poosmarescats

My Late Moms/then My Standard Poodle was 90 pounds and 26 1/2 inches tall!


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## TuttoBene

Tutto Bene-
Standard Poodle
1 year
44 lbs
23.5 inches H


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## 3ps

Name: Kallik
Age: 6 1/2 months
Height: 18"
Weight: approx 24 lbs
Variety: Standard / Moyen

I live in a very small house so I wanted a moyen. I hope he gets another inch or two taller though.


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## Vee

Name: Diva
Height: 13.75”
Weight: 14lbs
Age: 3 years old
Type: miniature poodle 


Name: Sassy 
Height: 13.75”
Weight: 13lbs
Age: 1 year old
Type: miniature poodle


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## curlflooffan

People tend to get surprised at how light Evra is once they get their hands on her. We went to the vet yesterday and she weighed 3.5kg. The vet was surprised at how light she is. Said that if she had guessed her weight by eye she would have guessed as high as 7kg. But she is just rather fluffy! she was freshly bathed and fluff dried  

Fluffy puppy! 

I would describe her physique as roughly breed standard. I don't have the expertise to say whether she would place if she were to go in the ring but I don't think she would be laughed out. Perhaps a little bit too long in the leg but that might be the awkward age. 

Definitely lighter than other dogs her height, as is typical for poodles. But she is not too delicate, not bird boned at all and very good muscle mass.


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## Pavie

Sorry it took a while, but I've finally updated the data table and graphs to include those who joined the discussion a bit later. We now have 64 poodles in the database!


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## 94Magna_Tom

EJStevenP said:


> Name: Lucy
> Age: 3 years
> Breed: Standard Poodle
> Height: 22-23 inches
> 
> Name: Jeffrey
> Age: 5 months
> Breed: Standard Poodle
> Height: Too wiggly however he looks to be half of Lucy's height
> Weight: 35 pounds


Thanks for the efforts @Pavie! Well @EJStevenP based on Pavie's chart, I'm going to say your guess at Jeffrey's height is a little off, or he's a real porker!🤣


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## Starla

@94Magna_Tom Jeffrey could just be in a porky puppy stage. That’s why I haven’t added Phoebe’s stats to the data here - she is still growing and would skew the data. I know the past week she has been voracious, and I can tell she has gained height, though I haven’t measured her recently.


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## Rose n Poos

Pavie said:


> Sorry it took a while, but I've finally updated the data table and graphs to include those who joined the discussion a bit later. We now have 64 poodles in the database!


This is fascinating and will be helpful!


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## EJStevenP

Jeffrey is definitely still in the porker stage. We all know the poodle prance. Well he poodle....waddles.


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## cowpony

EJStevenP said:


> Jeffrey is definitely still in the porker stage. We all know the poodle prance. Well he poodle....waddles.


Haha. Ritter was the same way. He waddled for months. It was hard for me to remember just how immature he was, because he was so much bigger than Galen at the same age.


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## Footprints&pawmarks

Name: Sage
Age: 10 months
Breed: Standard poodle
Height: 25 inches
Weight: 40 lbs

Love this thread! And thank you, Pavie, for putting together the data and creating that wonderful graph!


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## Johanna

DogtorDoctor said:


> Late to the party!
> 
> Name: Jango
> Height: 27.5"
> Weight: 61 lbs
> Age: 10 months
> Type: Standard
> 
> Jango is actually from a frozen semen litter, by a dog born in the late 90s. I always wonder how many of his differences are a result of two individual dogs versus being by a dog bred in a different decade. Random thoughts.


I am really curious who the sire was. Are you willing to share that?


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## DogtorDoctor

Johanna said:


> I am really curious who the sire was. Are you willing to share that?


Jango is by Espree Teller Take A Bow and out of Bar-None Avatar Both Sides Now. 

I believe most of his siblings are in conformation homes/co-owns.


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## PeggyTheParti

Update: Peggy was weighed at the vet’s office today, and she’s now 49.2 lbs.  Still 23.5” tall.


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## Footprints&pawmarks

DogtorDoctor said:


> Jango is by Espree Teller Take A Bow and out of Bar-None Avatar Both Sides Now.


My dog's beautiful mom is a Bar-None girl.


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## PeggyTheParti

@Pavie, I’ve made this great thread a sticky.


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## Pavie

PeggyTheParti said:


> @Pavie, I’ve made this great thread a sticky.


Thanks! I'll try to periodically update the data table and plots as people post their poodle's weights and heights.


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## Charlie's Person

Hi, we have a large Standard Poodle
Name : Charlie the Poodle 
Height : 29 inches
Weight : 84 pounds
Age: will be 5 years this May
Extremely athletic, loves winter, joins me as I snowshoe up mountain trails and covers at least 10 x the distance I do. Very gentle with rambunctious small children and simply walks away from aggressive dogs









Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


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## Charlie's Person

Trying again, as photo will not load.
Name : Charlie the Poodle 
Height: 29 inches
Weight : 84 pounds
Type : Standard Poodle 
He is very powerful, lean and muscular. He loves winter, joins me on long snowshoeing climbs up mountain trails in the British Columbia interior. Runs at least 10 x as far as I hike on the trails.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


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## Charlie's Person

Poosmarescats said:


> My Late Moms/then My Standard Poodle was 90 pounds and 26 1/2 inches tall!
> View attachment 487070


Hi, it is rare that I hear of a Standard Poodle like our Charlie. Our boy is 29 inches tall, 84 pounds , all leg and lean muscle

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


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## 94Magna_Tom

Charlie is such a big boy, such a good boy!


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## wejoly

Pavie said:


> After reading some posts on this forum, it seems poodles can vary quite a lot in their height and weight. The official standards for poodle types are determined by height. Toy Poodles are up to 10 inches tall, Miniature Poodle are above 10 inches but below 15 inches tall, and Standard Poodle stands 15 inches and taller. Although there is no official conformation standard for weight, I am curious how much do people's poodles weigh relative to their height? I think it would be cool to see everyone's data. Below are Pavie's measurements:
> 
> Name: Pavie
> Height: 17"
> Weight: 20 lbs
> Age: 2 years
> Type: goldendoodle (probably has toy and mini ancestry)


Name: Cole
Age: 8mos
Breed: Standard Poodle
Height: 25 inches
Weight: 58 lbs

Father was 27” in at shoulder and about 80 lbs. Mom was 24” and about 65. We’ll see.


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## wejoly

Charlie's Person said:


> Hi, we have a large Standard Poodle
> Name : Charlie the Poodle
> Height : 29 inches
> Weight : 84 pounds
> Age: will be 5 years this May
> Extremely athletic, loves winter, joins me as I snowshoe up mountain trails and covers at least 10 x the distance I do. Very gentle with rambunctious small children and simply walks away from aggressive dogs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


LOVE LOVE LOVE !!


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## X skully X

Name: Magnus
Age: 23 weeks
Breed: Standard Poodle
Height: 23 inches
Weight: 45 lbs


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## Minie

Matteo is 6 months, 57 cm to the shoulder and 22.3 kg today standard


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## Eclipse

Meerin (Azel's Set Fire To The Rain, CGCA, TKN, RAT) is 13 months, 23" and 43 lbs. Breeding is Ch. Natalie's BBBad To The Bone x. Ch. Azel's Eureka I've Found Treasure


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## Footprints&pawmarks

Hey, Pavie, when will you have enough time to update the chart????

As if that's all you have to do in your leisurely life


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## Pavie

Footprints&pawmarks said:


> Hey, Pavie, when will you have enough time to update the chart????
> 
> As if that's all you have to do in your leisurely life


It's updated on page 1 & 2. Here's the most recent version, for easy access:


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## CheektwoCheek

Name: Cricket
Age: 2.5
Breed: Standard
Height: 27
Weight: 74
Color: Black

Name: Suki
Age: 4.5 Months
Breed: Standard
Height: 22
Weight: 32.5
Color: Brown


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## Rose n Poos

Pavie, thank you so much for your efforts. Beyond being interesting, this has been very helpful for members to visualize some of the talking points, size vs variety being one.


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## Footprints&pawmarks

Thank you so much, Pavie, we all appreciate what you've put together for us. This is an important data set for poodle people.


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## TeamHellhound

I have an update for Simon. He is now 24.5' tall, and weighs 48#.


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## Little Milo

Thank you so much for doing this!

Name: Milo
Age: 9 months
Breed: Toy
Weight: 5.5 pounds
Height: 10 inches (or so—hard to measure a wriggly puppy!)
Color: Cafe au lait with tan phantom markings

Here’s a picture of my shaggy boy. We’re headed to the groomer today!


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## Faustroll

Name: Mephistopheles
Height: 26"
Weight: 52 lbs
Age: 11 months
Type: Standard


----------



## MiniMojo

Name: Mojo
Age: 9 months
Variety: Miniature
Height: 18”
Weight: 22 lbs / 10 kg

Thank you for putting this together!


----------



## Pearl Grey

Maisie is 15 months old, 23 inches at the shoulder, and 61 lbs at her last vet visit.


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## Heartland2022

Name Dewy
Type Standard Poodle 
Sex Male
Current age exactly 9 months
Hight 25.30" at the withers 
Weight 43.8 lbs. 
Tall and lean.


----------



## Pavie

Here's an update!


----------



## Liz

Is it too late to control for sex?


----------



## Pavie

Liz said:


> Is it too late to control for sex?


That's a good idea! I'll have to go over the previous posts and code up the sex of the dogs. I'm going to bed soon (need to get up early tomorrow), but will try to work on it when I get the time


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## Pavie

Finally got around to updating sex.

For some, I had to take a guess by name, so if there's any that are incorrect, please let me know and I will update.


















There's not enough female toys (only 2) and miniature x toys (only 1) for the plots for be meaningful, so I'll show the miniatures and standards. But please keep providing more information, so I can make these plots in the future.


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## 94Magna_Tom

Thanks for keeping this up Pavie's Mom! It's really valuable data!
I guess females are the preference for mini's! At least with us here at PF!
BTW, Elroy is 58½ lbs at last weighing. Essentially no change in months 12 thru 16.


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## Footprints&pawmarks

Sage is definitely a boy -- just ask him! And he's now 43 lbs at 14 months.

I agree with Magna_Tom -- thanks so much for keeping this up. I've gotten a lot out of your data sets.


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## I_love_dogs

I was waiting for Loki's latest vet appointment.
Loki is a Standard Poodle
He is 14mo.
He is 23"
He weighs 44lbs. 
The vet doesn't think he is going to grow much more.
His parents were larger. He was a runt.


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## I_love_dogs

And to respond to cowboy's thoughts on the popularity of doodles because they fit in between mini's and standards, that is how I ended up with two cockapoos prior to Loki. 
Although, I did figure out most of the poodles that I thought we mini's were actually toys. They were just a lot larger than my friend's toys. Which makes sense as she rescues toys that were poorly bred.


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## EJStevenP

Update on Ethel and Jeffrey!

Ethel - almost 16 months; somewhere around 57 pounds; as of yesterday an even 26 inches tall

Jeffrey - 10 months; I'd say at least 55 pounds of pure muscle; as of yesterday 24.75 inches tall

Ethel's current length is 24 inches. Jeffrey's is 21 inches. I already have big poodles. Assuming they end up square I will have even bigger poodles. For reference, Ethel's dam is 30 inches tall and her sire is 27. Jeffrey's dam is around 24 inches and his sire 26. Vet estimates on Ethel were 75 pounds, Jeffrey 65 pounds. They both still have giant paws. We shall see.


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## CatholicCarry

Name: Rufus
Age: 3
Breed: poodle/doodle (sort of rescue)
Height: 27”
Weight: 62 lbs

i can’t keep weight on him, but he’s quite healthy. He’s fairly square with less than an inch difference between height at withers to length from point of shoulder to point of buttock. He’s probably either a byb poodle or a byb F1bb Goldendoodle. Most people, including the bet that used to own, show, & breed Poodles, say he looks too Poodle to be a Doodle. 🤷🏻‍♀️


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## cowpony

@EJStevenP Wow, Ethel's mom is huge. That's within spec for a wolfhound bitch.


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## EJStevenP

cowpony said:


> @EJStevenP Wow, Ethel's mom is huge. That's within spec for a wolfhound bitch.


I know right??? When I first met Ms. Poodle (that's her name) I thought a bear was coming to greet me. She is the biggest poodle I have ever seen. Honestly she's one of the biggest dogs I've ever seen. Even with her height she has the poodle build and is very lean. Ethel gets her legs for days from her momma for sure.


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## jcris

My girl Princess is 24” ( measured from front legs to highest part of back) and weighs 42 lbs. 
She is 10 years old


----------



## Apricot mini momma

@Pavie I have an update on Beau. I finally took the time to get a good measurement.

He’s now 21 months old (b-day Oct 2020).
18 inches tall and 18 inches long. 
26.5 lbs consistently

Thank you again for your data collection!


----------



## Starla

I got help getting her height and it’s accurate. And her weight is using the vet’s scale yesterday 

Ellen’s Phoebe
47 lbs
25 inches
female unspayed 
1 year, 3 months


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## Max Power

My poodles have passed on but their sizes were as follows:

Duncan, Male Spoo was 73 lbs when he died.










Newt (L) and Yuki (R) were sister Spoos and normally weighed 45-46 lbs when they were active and got up to 50 lbs when pigging out


----------



## LaurieCody

Laurie Standard 11 months old. 21in. 41 pounds.


----------



## cowpony

LaurieCody said:


> Laurie Standard 11 months old. 21in. 41 pounds.


What a great size!


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## Pavie

Footprints&pawmarks said:


> Sage is definitely a boy -- just ask him! And he's now 43 lbs at 14 months.
> 
> I agree with Magna_Tom -- thanks so much for keeping this up. I've gotten a lot out of your data sets.


Sorry about that! I've updated Sage's data point to male.  



EJStevenP said:


> Update on Ethel and Jeffrey!
> 
> Ethel - almost 16 months; somewhere around 57 pounds; as of yesterday an even 26 inches tall
> 
> Jeffrey - 10 months; I'd say at least 55 pounds of pure muscle; as of yesterday 24.75 inches tall


Yay! Jeffrey is no longer the outlier standard 😄 Can't wait to see how he will turn out when full grown.



CatholicCarry said:


> Name: Rufus
> Age: 3
> Breed: poodle/doodle (sort of rescue)
> Height: 27”
> Weight: 62 lbs
> 
> i can’t keep weight on him, but he’s quite healthy. He’s fairly square with less than an inch difference between height at withers to length from point of shoulder to point of buttock. He’s probably either a byb poodle or a byb F1bb Goldendoodle. Most people, including the bet that used to own, show, & breed Poodles, say he looks too Poodle to be a Doodle. 🤷🏻‍♀️


Does Rufus have hair in his ear canal? My goldendoodle looks very much pure poodle but during his annual wellness exam, our vet commented that we're lucky he didn't get the "poodle ear hair gene". Not sure if that might be one way to discriminate poodles versus doodle? 🤷‍♀️


----------



## Pavie




----------



## thewritingteacher

Maggie 4 months old. Female SPoo
21”
30.2 pounds
And she was the runt of the litter!


----------



## For Want of Poodle

An update for Annie - still 25", but down to a far more reasonable 54 lbs (still a few more to go). 

I find it fascinating to see how much a few outliers can affect a trend line.


----------



## Charliethespoo

I measured Charlie, 20 weeks today. It was a bit hard but I think I got it right-ish 

So I think he's 21" tall and 38.5 pounds. That sounds huge to me! He was only 19 pounds at 12 weeks!


----------



## Heartland2022

Update for Dewy.
Male 
26 inches at withers.
13 months
46 lbs


----------



## heartofalionxo

My Standard poodle:
Name: Blue
Female
23.5 in
11 months
48 lbs

I wonder if she will get taller at this age?


----------



## PeggyTheParti

heartofalionxo said:


> My Standard poodle:
> Name: Blue
> Female
> 23.5 in
> 11 months
> 48 lbs
> 
> I wonder if she will get taller at this age?


Peggy had a significant vertical growth spurt around 18 months.


----------



## RedonRed

Just realized I never added Reggie’s info to this thread!

Type: Standard
Age: 3 years
Height: 26”
Weight: around 57


----------



## mawmawangela

I'm very new to this forum and this is why I came here to begin with because my " AKC Toy Poodle" is huge for a toy! She's closer to 13" tall and weighs 11 pounds. She is the first dog I've ever considered breeding, but is she classified incorrectly? Is this something I need to correct with her registration or is this even something I need to worry about? I have a friend with a pup from the same breeder, same mom-different dad, and his dog is 6.5 pounds and 9" tall. Should I even consider breeding my sweet Shadow? Thanks for any help because all I have is Google knowledge about poodles and breeding. Edited: I just looked at her papers and it just says Poodle. Duh. So Shadow is just a miniature then. No worries, right?!


----------



## twyla

Nellie miniature poodle 20 weeks and 5 days old 7 pounds 11 oz, 11 1/4" tall


----------



## thataway4

Gigi: 2 3/4 years old: 15" 16# Mini. 
I am trying to figure out how I missed this fascinating thread. Thanks for taking the time to calculate the spread sheet and plots!


----------



## 94Magna_Tom

mawmawangela said:


> I'm very new to this forum and this is why I came here to begin with because my " AKC Toy Poodle" is huge for a toy! She's closer to 13" tall and weighs 11 pounds. She is the first dog I've ever considered breeding, but is she classified incorrectly? Is this something I need to correct with her registration or is this even something I need to worry about? I have a friend with a pup from the same breeder, same mom-different dad, and his dog is 6.5 pounds and 9" tall. Should I even consider breeding my sweet Shadow? Thanks for any help because all I have is Google knowledge about poodles and breeding. Edited: I just looked at her papers and it just says Poodle. Duh. So Shadow is just a miniature then. No worries, right?!


I'm not a breeder, but have been here a couple of years. My understanding is that some toys go oversize, some go undersized. A reputable breeder wouldn't breed an oversized toy as the oversized and undersized genes are undesirable. 
There is nothing wrong with your dog as a pet and family member, it's just not the most desirable for breeding.


----------



## Genny

Cooper is 1.5 years old and weighs 8lbs.
He is almost impossible to measure but he is square in shape and around 11" tall/long


----------

