# So Cesar is coming to town



## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

A bunch of my obedience school buds are going, along with our instructor (who all have floor seats). This bunch is opposed to Cesar's methods but would like the opportunity to see him in person and ask questions to see if they have judged him fairly. He was looking for a hyper 18 month old dog to use as an example and Maddy came to mind EXCEPT, she is such a fraud, she would never misbehave on cue. In such situations a haloe pops up behind her head and people think our whole family and everyone who knows her is lying, I'm sure! Secondly I wouldn't want her used as an example even though I'm sure he wouldn't be heavy handed in front of an audience, because she is such a joyful little thing I would never chance her spirit being broken. But some of my obedience school buds may have put forward their dogs, not sure. Not sure if I'll go but I think it would be interesting, whether or not I believe in his methods. Would you go?


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## Sawyersmomma (May 28, 2012)

are you from Prince George? I heard Cesar was having a workshop there and was really considering the 4 hour drive to go. I'm not going to lie, I don't understand what people don't like about him. But I'm not exactly a dog expert either lol. He seems really good with rehabilitation.... Anyway, I'm thinking of going... When is it again?


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Nope, I'm in the Okanagan. Not sure when he's in PG but he's down south in November. My obedience instructor says there is stuff he does that is not publicized or something but I would kind of like to meet him. Really I know nothing about the man except the controversy surrounding him.


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## cavon (Aug 10, 2010)

I have seen him at the ACC in Toronto and aside from whether or not you believe in his philosophy or training methods, the man is HILARIOUS!!!!

He is quite a captivating speaker as well as charming and witty. he did a cat impression and I nearly died! He literally became a cat and crawled up onto the back of a couch that was on the stage. 

He was great with the people who were chosen to bring their dogs on stage. There was a woman who said she couldn't get her dog to sit quietly while she prepared his food. they had a little kitchen set up on the stage and he told her to go through her regular routine as if she was at home feeding the dog.

She proceeded to go to the counter and act out preparing the dog's food and her dog started out sitting patiently waiting. As she started putting the food into the bowl, she was talking to the dog in a high pitched voice, saying, "Are you hungry? Do you want your supper? Are you going to eat it all up?" With each question, her voice got higher and higher and she spoke faster and faster and the little dog got more and more excited until he was basically jumping up and down and flipping around. 

Cesar was watching quietly and then all of a sudden, without saying a word, he looked out at the audience and rolled his eyes and made a face as much to say - are you kidding me? You don't know what the issue is? 

He let her finish and he never said a word to her other than to ask her repeat the routine without saying a word. the little dog never budged and the woman just could not believe it. LOL!! The audience was busting a gut. He was never condescending with her, nor did he chastize her at all. He just had her go through the exercise without speaking and then asked her if she could see the difference and if she realized why.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

There's people who like him and people who hate him. I would still go and see him if I had the chance. It's very different when you see and meet someone in person. There's another level of acquaintance when you talk to someone face to face. If the CM haters go, I hope they realize that he's not a bad human being, they just don't agree with his views - so be it!

From what I've seen on TV, I think CM will be a fun person to interact with and talk to. I've tried watching Victoria Stilwell and nothing against her philosophy on dog training, but I just cannot stand her voice and mannerisms. She is also VERY condescending and patronizing to the people she tries to help. Maybe she has a "break them down and bring them up" attitude, I just don't like it. Cesar just says, "What's the problem? Let's go see hands on." (of course there's people who disagree with his hands-on methods but at least he doesn't make you feel like a terrible human being)


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## Jdcollins (Feb 3, 2011)

Where exactly will he be and when? I would love to go.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

This is a link to his latest tour: Cesar Millan Tickets 

Still not sure if I'm going.


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## Jdcollins (Feb 3, 2011)

So I want to ask what hands on method does he use that some are opposed to? I've seen his show many times and he always seems calm and not mean to the dogs. My trainer doesn't like Caesar but not Bc of his methods... He just says Caeser uses tools that he doesn't show on the tv series and so it's deceiving to the home audience... Like a fire extinguisher.. (not pointed at the dog but used like a huge pet corrector for extreme situations)...He feels like its phony to say "see u just stand tall, shoulders back... breathe in and out and walk" when he used something like that to put a dog in submission mode and then rolled cameras. A viewer is never going to get the same result at home so he thinks its unfair.

Anyway I havent read anything about him.... I've just seen his shows.... What have you all heard or seen? (Maybe I'll do a little google search ?)

I would still go see him... The only thing that would make me not want to go is if he were physically hurting an animal in the name of "training" ....
I wouldn't pay money to see or support that. I tend to think that there must be some knowledge that he has or something he might say or show that would be insight to dog behavior and or training that i could benefit from and therefore make it worth going ...worth it to me anyway.... I'm an info junkie... I listen a lot and then apply what makes sense to me... 


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## flyingpoodle (Feb 5, 2012)

I had only seen season nine (I think) episodes and didn't know what the fuss was over, then I watched some season one! I think his training has evolved a great deal, he doesn't do "alpha rolls" on his recent shows, and seems to be way more mellow. 

I think learning from dog trainers is like learning from a lot of sources, you need to keep your common sense detectors primed and on. 

I love watching the recent shows for the dog body language reading. And I would totally go see the show. You can decide for yourself whether it was a good or bad experience! As for the dog audition, that is trickier, I will stay out of that one, although it might be great experience if your dog did behave well even if it was ironic in the alanis morisette sense of the word! More repetitions of correct behavior is how they practice, even if it is embarrassing for you!


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Flyingpoodle, that's a good point. Everyone grows, and besides, maybe I don't want to know the stuff he does that isn't shown on t.v. Anyway, on a slightly different note, Maddy has been so sweet lately! I have been starting to wonder if all the obedience work I've done with her is paying off. The thing is, she's always been really good at obedience (way better than Indy), so that's not a problem; she's just so high-energy, curious and resourceful. And I think that dog sports and the like is really the only thing that will help her with that (channelling her talents into something good and fun).


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

You can read up on criticism of his methods on wikipedia, or just google "Cesar Milan criticism" and you will get a lot of articles on him.

He has mellowed out a lot. He's been through the passing of his beloved dog Daddy, and a divorce with his long time wife. Divorce isn't fun for any person, and I'm sure that has changed his perspective on life. There's some episodes where it is apparent that he went through marriage counseling because he repeats some things you would hear a therapist say and he tries to apply it to some of his guests - like how it's important to listen and empathize. There was an article on him about his marriage and his wife complained that he was very unemotional and verbally abusive in his marriage. He is probably just more comfortable dealing with animals. There is also the machismo factor in his relationship with his wife so I'm sure that didn't help. He is dating right now and has a new person in his life.

Edit: on the note about machismo - I'm not sure where he was in his relationship with his wife, but I saw an episode where he was helping a maltese that would guard her owner. The lady was the wife of the Laker's basketball owner (I think) - she was really down on herself and her confidence was really lacking - she said how she felt like she couldn't do anything because she couldn't even control her little dog, and it was very stressful always trying to prove herself in a male dominated field - I loved the fact that Cesar empowered her by saying that the world and more jobs needed women like her. That women were the leaders of our future (or something to that extent) and basically emphasizing how "women rule." She gained confidence by learning how to handle her dog which I'm sure translated into her career. I love the fact that Cesar can be open-minded about these type of things, although the road to understanding it may have been hard for him. At least he is trying!


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## Jdcollins (Feb 3, 2011)

I have never seen the early seasons... Just the last year or so.. Def hadn't seen him do an alpha roll... I just really enjoy the "dog psychology" part... I do think he knows how to read behavior and I like learning that part. quite honestly IMHO (i am not a trainer) neither the pet corrector or even the fire extinguisher sounds bother me... It's a sound and its not at all a loud piercing painful sound... It's an attention getter... I would much rather see that used than yelling or hitting or acting frustrated at a dog... I think if u use it quickly and then immediately reward them when the unwanted behavior stops its useful and not mean. I have posted before that my trainer advocates for use of pet corrector and I've used it... My pooches are not afraid of it in the least, but it does (did... I very rarely have to use it now) get their attention quickly and they stop... My 2 would actually stop the behavior and come running to me to get their reward... eventually they just stopped the unwanted "craZy" barking.... a few barks here and there don't bother me ... Crazy shrill barking does ?

Just a side note... I did not walk around all day "pet correcting" every unwanted behavior... I chose 2... "crazy barking" (at doorbell or people walking by when they were outside) and counter surfing.... That's it... We do lots of praising with affection and clicker/treats for sits, stays. Recalls, etc.


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## Arcticfox (Dec 12, 2011)

I've seen a lot of his show, just to see what the controversy is about. He has mellowed out quite a bit going from season one to season nine, but I still don't trust him or his methods. A lot of the time, if you turn off the sound and just watch the dog. They are displaying very fearful behavior towards Cesar. He also still uses his neck jabs and "attention kicks" where he uses his heel to kick the dog under the ribs. He has a way of not backing down even if the dog is already in fight/flight mode, and continually escalating the situation until something happens. I think a lot of what he does is to make things more dramatic for television.

Here's an article describing one particular scene with Cesar dealing with a resource guarder: article

Maybe his methods work once in a while for simple little problems or hard dogs that can take it without batting an eye, but mostly I just see dogs shutting down, and him calling it submission.

I would never let him anywhere near my own dog, but if I were trapped in an alleyway by a couple of growling and lunging big dogs, he'd be the celebrity I'd most want present.


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

Arcticfox said:


> Here's an article describing one particular scene with Cesar dealing with a resource guarder: article
> 
> Maybe his methods work once in a while for simple little problems or hard dogs that can take it without batting an eye, but mostly I just see dogs shutting down, and him calling it submission.


100000% agree. I read that article a few weeks ago. Anyone curious as to why people do not like Cesar, please check it out. 

I guess my issue with his methods are that they are based on the idea of having your dog submit to you. That is totally weird to me. I don't want to have that kind of relationship with my dog. I want my dog to love me, trust me and respect me, and I love and trust and respect my dog in return. 

It is not necessary to "touch" or yank a dog to get its attention. There is no need for a dog to "submit" to have it listen and respect you. It's about communication, and if a dog isn't listening, it's likely because you are not communicating in a way that it understands. Some dogs learn with food, others need toys, others simply need a "good dog!". I just do not believe any dog needs to be pinned down, or "touched" or backed into a corner.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

No, I certainly wouldn't want my dogs to be intimidated or to obey out of fear either. BUT, I know for a fact 1000% that Maddy does know what I want...she just doesn't want to do that a lot of the time because her idea is waaaay more fun. So in her case, it's not about making my wishes known, it's all about motivation. Making myself more interesting than dirt, as Tortoise said in another thread! But I totally agree with the positive reinforcement type of training, not negative.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

I would never let him get anywhere near one of my dogs. But I too wanted to go to one of his seminars to _peacefully_ hand out non-intimidating and manhandling free training literature to interested parties OUTSIDE the event. Unfortunately, my service dog would have to come with me but I would defend her with my life so I wouldn't be too worried. Thought I have had his fans jabbing my foster dog with OCD before her meds in the throat once when I turned away for a split second. They actually grabbed her leash and had the nerve to jab her in the jugular. Then they had the nerve to look surprised when she continued barking a split second later with even more fervor.

There's a Facebook page for organizing things like this. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Protest-Cesar-Millan-US-Tours/200507953370491?fref=ts


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

By the way, he's been said to skirt around questions. Anything about how to actually teach a dog something, he doesn't seem to be able to answer. If questioned about his methods, he'll also skirt around answering it. 

Review: Cesar Millan’s The Pack Leader Tour

Lainey Gossip Entertainment Update|Review of Cesar Millan show in Victoria 28oct10

But he was put on the spot and not pandered to (for once) by a tv host and I think you might find this interesting and some of your questions may be answered:


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

Sorry, I forgot to add something. You can see many clips on Youtube and articles going into great detail of why people don't like what he does. 

Another thing to leave in mind, is the fact that aggressive dogs are a dime a dozen. Many people successfully work with them day in and day out without manhandling or intimidating them. 

He doesn't read dog body language well. It's why he often gets nailed and fights break out. He's just one video illustrating this point. 



 Everything is black and white. To him, a dog's body language is saying that it's dominant or that it's submissive. This isn't even proper usage of social dominance. See Dr. Mark Bekoff's article regarding this. Social Dominant Is Not A Myth.

If anyone wants me to post video links and article links, let me know. I've got them bookmarked. 

Here's a cumulative website with the video links mostly being down. But this is the input from experts in the field. BEYOND CESAR MILLAN - Home


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I saw that episode where he got bit. It was so terrible! I was also shocked that he didn't see it coming. I guess he could say that resulted because the owners were present. Who knows. I have seen some episodes where he uses treats and redirection. One was with a shih tzu that had pica and also ate her poop. He used bananas to treat her ignoring these objects. Her pica was eliminated but not the poop eating. Coprophagia is hard to cure anyway, so I'll let it go.


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## cavon (Aug 10, 2010)

well, like everything, there will always be the good and the bad and I think that as thinking adults, we have to sort through everything and make our own decisions. That doesn't necessarily mean that our way is the absolute right way or that everyone has to agree with our way as being the ONLY right way.

I had an issue with Finnegan crowding me when I was getting his food ready when he was younger. He would jump at the counter and push me and no matter how many times I told him no or down, or pushed him off, he just kept coming back. Then I happenned to be watching an episode of The Dog Whisperer and a family had a Weimaraner who did the exact same thing and they reacted the same way that I did. 

Cesar explained that just telling the dog no wasn't enough, that you had to offer it an alternative activity and then enforce it. He suggested putting it in a down stay on a mat, but my boy was infamous for chewing up mats, so I took him to the love seat and asked him to down. He didn't, but per the instructions Cesar had offered the family, I waited him out until he submitted and lay down and then I went back to the food. Cesar never instructed, nor did I, lay a hand on my dog, I just stood in front of him by the loveseat until he lay down.

It did take a few times before he really accepted that this was what I wanted, but each time he would break his stay and come back over to where I was preparing his food, I would just calmly take him by the collar and walk him back to the love seat, tell him Down, and wait for him to go into a down stay. He eventually got it.

Now, the minute I take his food out of the fridge, no matter where he is or what he is doing, he turns and walks to the love seat and gets up and lies down. He doesn't evn get off when I put his bowl down, he waits until I tell him to get his food.

This was a behaviour that really irritated me, so no matter what else Cesar shows people to do, that worked for me and I am thankful.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

That's true. Learning "place" is a good skill for a dog to have. Keeps them calm and us sane.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I think he has "mellowed" because of all the controversey -- honestly I don't think he has changed his thinking, but from a business standpoint, he does not want to give up that $$$$ and bad press is bad press, and no business wants it. The trainer who worked with Jake and with whom I consult by phone with now (she is retired) has made references to Cesar in the context of reading dogs, etc., but never in terms of correction. Honestly, he does not impress me that much but I guess depending on the unwanted behavior --- with aggressive dogs, it may have its place, but not in my home.


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## Jdcollins (Feb 3, 2011)

Just watched the holly show down... Yikes.. Not even sure what to say other than the whole thing just looked wrong... Ooof


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Every dog is differant and what works for one may not work for the next. That being said, I love CM for the fact that he has told all the people that don't know anything about dogs that they have to be walked!!! So many new to dogs don't know that very simple truth, and he has been able to get that message out there , so for that I am grateful.


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