# Are all back-yard-breeders bad?



## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

Does she do any genetic testing of have background on the parents? I would be mostly concerned about what health issues run through the parents lines. 
Also, if she only has 1 female and is breeding her 2 times a year, that is pretty excessive and terrible on that dogs body. I wouldn't support someone who is overbreeding a dog. I'm no expert when it comes to breeding, but as a groomer I deal with poorly bred dogs on a daily basis, so definitely don't be afraid to ask the BYB any question that comes to mind.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Two big warning flags - breeding a dog that is unregistered, and breeding the dam back to back, on every season. The lack of "papers" to me implies either poorly bred, or a dog that was sold with the an agreement not to breed (in the UK the kennel club will only permit a bitch to be bred once a year, so an unregistered litter can mean that the owner is breeding her more than once a year and is therefore unable to register the second litter).

I'd look for someone who as a minimum has health test certificates for both parents (not just assures you that they have both always been very healthy), who breeds each bitch at most once a year, who registers the pups with a reputable registry, is happy for you to visit the pups and meet the parents, and who encourages you to contact owners of previous pups.


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## The Opera Poodle (Dec 19, 2012)

Thank you for the response. I have read the post titled "On breeding dogs" and learned a lot there. I had already gone ahead and emailed the woman. She offered to drive the puppies somewhere for me to see them. That was the biggest brightest red flag she could have waved. If I can't see the parents and the condition the dogs live, I'm not interested. Taking in a rescue with unknow problems is one thing - giving someone money and taking a dog without base info is another. She can use the excuse that she doesn't want strangers to know where she lives, but with that philosophy she shouldn't be willing to meet them in a parking lot. Or be selling living creatures.

I will continue my search. Like I originally said, I would much rather adopt an adult dog. My primary concern is my present dog and not "my" need for a second. I have looked at two adult rescues. One had an aggression problems with other dogs and the second was heart worm positive. I will wait and continue to search for a dog that is being retired out of a breeding program or a rescue that will be a good buddy for Shasta. As I see it, all the morons who bought puppies as Christmas presents will be figuring out in short time that it takes a lot of money/time to have a Standard. Sadly, this will probably give me more choices.


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## The Opera Poodle (Dec 19, 2012)

BTW - she says the dam is an English Standard and not an American Standard. Is there a difference?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

No difference between English and US as far as I am aware (could be a tiny difference in he height range definitions?) - but I agree: if she does not want you to visit, run away fast! Screams puppy farm/dealer.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I am so glad to hear that you are passing on this breeder.

I like you, wanted an adult dog. I also wanted a female... I search out all the breeders within a day's drive from my home and sent them an e-mail. I told them what I was looking for and what kind of home I could offer. I heard back from a few and ended up getting Carley!!!! She was the best gift I have ever giving myself. She came from a small breeder in GA. She was almost 7 years old, a retired breeding bitch. She came to me with papers showing where she had been health tested, perfectly trained, she had had the best of care her entire life. I was able to talk to her vet. I met the woman , looked at all her dogs and felt very comfortalbe supporting her breeding program. The life of the breeding dogs is very important to me! You can get a cute puppy anywhere. We continued to talk on phone and by e-mail as the breeder wanted to know how her beloved dog was doing in her new home. She is very happy with the home I have provided and when she got a returned puppy, now 2 1/2 years old, she contacted me and gave her to me. So now I have the younger dog that I wanted, as well. My new girl just needed some training , she is a great dog too. Good Luck and keep looking for what you want, you will find it.

P.S. I attached a photo of my new dog as well.


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## kcp1227 (Jan 25, 2013)

For her to want to meet you with the puppies is a huge red flag. That seems like it would be more trouble for her to load them all in the car. Plus you wouldn't be able to see their true personalities out of their environment. Glad you're passing.


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## Pluto (Jul 8, 2012)

The Opera Poodle said:


> My question is, are there circumstances where a BYB has their act together as well, if not better than, a professional breeder? If so, what are the main flags to look for to determine if the individual truly does know what they are doing?


We are talking schematics here. In _my _mind:

A small breeder that has their act togeather is usually called a _hobby breeder_. They don't usually have as much experiance as a professional breeder, or as many resources, so they often break even if anything on a litter. They usually have a professional breeder as a mentor, and pay for services from other professionals.

A _good professional breeder _typically has the experiance to cut some costs (ie can groom, treat reproductive issues, knows when they need a vet and when they don't), the connections to trade for good breeding dogs/stud fee, can work deals with handlers or handel on their own and does make money off of their dogs (maybe not a living, but a profit). They can cut cost by doing a lot of DIY, and actually have the knowledge and resources to do it.

A _puppy miller _breeds on a large scale and makes a profit by not properly careing for the dogs, and breeding substandard dogs. These are usually USDA licensed breeders and many of their dogs are registered. They do a lot of DIY as well, but usually poorly and a non-profitable dog is considered waste and neglected, allowed to die, or sold at auction. They typically stay out of the public eye as well, though sometime a professional breeder skirts the line of a puppy mill.

A _backyard breeder _is usually well meaning and thinks they know more then they do. They think they are a good professional breeder, but when carefully scrutinized make judgment errors in self treating, choosing breeding stock, and usually stay out of the public eye (showing) where their ignorance is exposed in contrast to a professional breeder. Ocassionally, they are little puppy millers in training, just on a small scale. Sometimes they do it for the love of the dogs and puppies, sometimes they do it to recoup costs from their original puppy purchase. Usually they lack experiance and the money to do it right, and it can be hard to break into being a hobby breeder from a BYB if you have already bred dogs because Pro's can be bruital and it's difficult to break into "hobby" breeding without good mentorship.

There are breeders through the spectrum, and breeders often change throughout their careers. There is no easy way to classify/identify breeder type without a decent amount of research from third party sources.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

Where are you located? There are many public & private rescues out there. I got my Spoo Leif from Carolina Poodle Rescue. He is everything we wanted in a dog. Noe we have 3 poodles.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Look up the Bluebonnet Poodle Club. They list their member breeders and have ties to Poodle Rescue of Houston.


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## The Opera Poodle (Dec 19, 2012)

I got my Spoo from the Poodle Rescue of Houston. I check their site daily for standards. The woman who runs it is an amazing champion for poodles. She even has had an on-sight vet clinic built for her rescues. I'm trying to be very patient, but once the decision is made to expand the pack, it is hard to wait!


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