# Silver beige or bad brown?



## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

This is her.. #1


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

This is her #2


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

This is her #3


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Definitely not bad brown. Probably silver beige but could be cafe.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Others will give their advice, but my PWD Phoenix was brown at birth but faded to a silver beige by one year. With a silver father it seems likely that the puppy will fade also.


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Thank you, Charismaticmillie & Minipoo


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Looks silver beige to me, How old is the puppy?


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

The puppy is a pretty color, probably will lighten quite a bit with a silver parent, but the nose seems very light to me. How old is it?


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## itzmeigh (Apr 28, 2014)

Such a cutie! I haven't seen enough silver beige puppies or adults to comment on the color but sure is a cutie!!


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

If the hair between the paw pads is white or silver, it'll be a silver beige. If the face is clearly lighter at roots (or if shaven) at 4 to 6 weeks, it'll be a silver beige. "Bad" brown will look much like a decent brown for months at least and blue factor + brown (whatever it's called) will take many many months to even show proper hint of lightening and will years to clear out.


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Thanks for the advise / comment, pawrents!!

Those photos were taken when she was b/w 6-7 weeks only.
We always wanted a silver poodle, it's not easy to find in our country.
Initially we thought she could fade to apricot or light choco/red colors.

Am glad to hear that she's one special one.:angel:

Regarding her nose, pigmentation is light. Is this normal?


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

More pictures of her at week 6-7.


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

More pictures of her at week 6-7
#2


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

She does look like she is getting silvery, but her nose will probably stay light.


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Yes, most probably she has light pigmentation.
But I understand the pigmentation for silver beige won't be black. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

This was my silver beige tpoo Baby as you can see she was very light, most people thought she was apricot but she was browner when I brought her home and lighten to this lovely shade, almost blond.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

TeresaYL said:


> Yes, most probably she has light pigmentation.
> But I understand the pigmentation for silver beige won't be black. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


Silver beige should have liver or brown points and dark amber color eyes


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

twyla said:


> Silver beige should have liver or brown points and dark amber color eyes



Yes, because they are brown plus a fading gene.


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

twyla said:


> View attachment 254554
> 
> 
> View attachment 254562
> ...



She's so sweet :beauty:


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

twyla said:


> Silver beige should have liver or brown points and dark amber color eyes


Could it due to her young age (6-7wks) that led to her super light color nose (almost pink) ?


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

TeresaYL said:


> Could it due to her young age (6-7wks) that led to her super light color nose (almost pink) ?



I have never seen a silver beige that young, but sometimes cream/apricots, who are also allowed to have liver/brown points are born with pink noses but by that age they have darkened. I do see one brown spot on his nose, so maybe it is starting to happen? Also be aware that the cream and apricots noses will usually start to lighten when they are a couple of years old, so expect to see something lighter than whatever his final nose color is as a young adult.
Silver poodles always have jet black points because they are genetically black plus fading genes. Silver beige is brown plus fading genes so the points are brown and can be lighter shades of it.


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

Seeing the underpaws, my guess is not-silver-beige.


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

peccan said:


> Seeing the underpaws, my guess is not-silver-beige.


What do you think her color would be?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

If she has a silver and a brown parent, she is going to either be cafe or silver beige.


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

TeresaYL said:


> What do you think her color would be?


Could be whatever is the brown-pigmented version of blue.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

the blue equivalent in brown is cafe au lait


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Woah... Doesn't seem easy to get her real color :argh:
Hope to get more feedback from some experts in silver to advise/comment.:alberteinstein:


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Well silver beige will be easy to tell when the puppy's face is shaved down and Silver beige's significantly lighten in their first year . Cafe au Lait takes up to 3 years to "clear" (lighten) their coat.

My Beatrice is brown, she might be a cafe au lait or a bad brown, her color is changing and no matter how many pictures I take, I cannot capture her color.

I asked here

http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/144985-how-do-cafe-au-lait-poodles-clear.html

might give you an idea about cafe's


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

twyla said:


> Well silver beige will be easy to tell when the puppy's face is shaved down and Silver beige's significantly lighten in their first year . Cafe au Lait takes up to 3 years to "clear" (lighten) their coat.
> 
> My Beatrice is brown, she might be a cafe au lait or a bad brown, her color is changing and no matter how many pictures I take, I cannot capture her color.
> 
> ...


Thanks!! In fact, I have already read up that thread


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Went to visit the silver/beige gal today, She's close to 8weeks young


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Close to 8 weeks young


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Close to 8 weeks young~skin & coat #1


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Close to 8 weeks young~skin & coat #2


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

TeresaYL said:


> Close to 8 weeks young


This one is definitely silver beige. The puppy in post above (held in hands) as well. FYI you can attach multiple images to one post.


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

peccan said:


> This one is definitely silver beige. The puppy in post above (held in hands) as well. FYI you can attach multiple images to one post.


Oh really, that's a rare color.. Great!
Very excited at the same time kinda worried as she will be our number 2.
Wonder how is it to handle 2? 

I've tried to upload 2 picts in a post but it's giving me problems...


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

TeresaYL said:


> Oh really, that's a rare color.. Great!
> 
> Very excited at the same time kinda worried as she will be our number 2.
> 
> ...



How old is your first one? Personally I think two is the perfect number, but is best if you have the older one fully trained before you add the second (but the age difference will vary depending upon the dog and the owner).


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Tiny Poodles said:


> How old is your first one? Personally I think two is the perfect number, but is best if you have the older one fully trained before you add the second (but the age difference will vary depending upon the dog and the owner).


Our 1st furkid just turned 1 in April. The number 2 is mainly for her companion since she's alone when kids & us not at home in the day.

This is Ms Janel, our 1st baby...


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

TeresaYL said:


> Our 1st furkid just turned 1 in April. The number 2 is mainly for her companion since she's alone when kids & us not at home in the day.
> 
> 
> 
> This is Ms Janel, our 1st baby...



OMG, she is adorable - she almost doesn't look real she is so cute!
I think that is a good age separation - as long as you can spend a couple of weeks with him when he first gets home, training him and setting him on the right path! I had only six months between Tangee and Teaka, and they did fine.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Squeeeeee...adorbs. Both the upcoming silver beige puppy and your wee white one. How cute is that!? She really does almost not look real. How exciting this is! Best of luck! My two toy Poodles are two days apart. LOL. They're charming and endearing. Lots of work but that's my life and I adore them. As long as you're up for the extra work, it'll be fine. They do keep each other company as long as they get along. Keep us posted.

Oh, the nose pigmentation... My Matisse started out with a pretty black nose and over time it's faded into a "winter nose," it's apparently called or "snow nose." It would get darker in summer months. It doesn't bother me. It's not a health problem. But it can be sunburnt so I will have to be careful of that and maybe try some kind of sunscreen, which he'll probably lick off. It seems to have gotten more light and seems to be permanent now.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

It is too bad that they don't make a dog safe sunscreen. Preferably one that won't mess up their hair, because I would like to put some on Timi's legs and hips after I clip her.


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Tiny Poodles said:


> OMG, she is adorable - she almost doesn't look real she is so cute!
> I think that is a good age separation - as long as you can spend a couple of weeks with him when he first gets home, training him and setting him on the right path! I had only six months between Tangee and Teaka, and they did fine.


Thanks for the compliment, tiny poodle.
I hope both of the gals can click well.. We brought Janel to visit baby gal and she was kinda showing her anger bcos the baby was running around her.. Haha!
6 months was kinda close... How was it dealing with 2 little ones? I kept telling myself not to think otherwise.. Everything should go well, both will be in pink of health but in fact I'm scared/worried.

We will keep them separated first, let them get together when we are home to supervise.


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Squeeeeee...adorbs. Both the upcoming silver beige puppy and your wee white one. How cute is that!? She really does almost not look real. How exciting this is! Best of luck! My two toy Poodles are two days apart. LOL. They're charming and endearing. Lots of work but that's my life and I adore them. As long as you're up for the extra work, it'll be fine. They do keep each other company as long as they get along. Keep us posted.
> 
> Oh, the nose pigmentation... My Matisse started out with a pretty black nose and over time it's faded into a "winter nose," it's apparently called or "snow nose." It would get darker in summer months. It doesn't bother me. It's not a health problem. But it can be sunburnt so I will have to be careful of that and maybe try some kind of sunscreen, which he'll probably lick off. It seems to have gotten more light and seems to be permanent now.


Thanks for the compliment & encouragement!
Oh wow!! Just 2 days apart, u are superb. It's good bcos they grow up in the same environment together.
Yes, the 'extra work' all over again... Lol! But you've motivated me, taking care of 2 at the same time is gonna be a disaster, for me! Haha....

Nose color gets lighten? i thought it will get darken instead of lighten.. But thankfully it's not of health issue.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

TeresaYL said:


> Thanks for the compliment, tiny poodle.
> 
> I hope both of the gals can click well.. We brought Janel to visit baby gal and she was kinda showing her anger bcos the baby was running around her.. Haha!
> 
> ...



Well my older ones (I also had Taylee who was 3 years older) were already well housebroken and had good house manners, and I think that helped as the puppy really wanted to emulate them - honestly I cannot even remember training Teaka, it happened so easily!
To me the play between two or more poodles is the most amazing thing ever, but if you have never had two dogs before, you should do some googling and see what the play looks like, because much of it can look aggressive if you are not familiar. And you should probably try to familiarize yourself with how adult dogs discipline puppies and set boundaries as well, because that can look even more aggressive, and it takes some savvy to know when to allow it to play out, and when to intervene!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

TeresaYL said:


> Thanks for the compliment & encouragement!
> 
> Oh wow!! Just 2 days apart, u are superb. It's good bcos they grow up in the same environment together.
> 
> ...



Like I said I am more familiar with creams/apricots, but guess it is the same as browns, and yes, some of them can be born with very light/pinkish noses, but after a few weeks the color fills in, but once they are grown, often the nose color will gradually get lighter, just as their coat color will. Poodles born with black noses always stay black their entire lives. But like PB said, it is not a health issue at all, it is just pigment.


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Thanks, Tiny Poodle :>


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

No, Brown noses really don't lighten with age (lose pigment) in the way that some black noses do.

Silver beige tends to have much a lighter colored nose than a brown or a cafe.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

TeresaYL said:


> Thanks for the compliment & encouragement!
> Oh wow!! Just 2 days apart, u are superb. It's good bcos they grow up in the same environment together.
> Yes, the 'extra work' all over again... Lol! But you've motivated me, taking care of 2 at the same time is gonna be a disaster, for me! Haha....
> 
> Nose color gets lighten? i thought it will get darken instead of lighten.. But thankfully it's not of health issue.


Here's something about winter nose: (it's not usually caused by disease, but a thyroid issue is sometimes behind it) 

Snow Nose - Canine Disease Description

Well, I'm not superb....just retired. lol. I have had the time to put into each other them. They get plenty of individual attention, training time, walks, outings in the car etc along with togetherness times. With the two plus Jose`, my older Chihuahua mix, none of them seem to be burdened with separation anxiety. They squawk a little for a few minutes if I take one out the door for a walk but that's just complaining, not over being whelmed with sorrow or anything. I listen from the garage and by the time I get my shoes on, it's stopped. lol. Anyhow, it's fun and interesting to me to have multiple dogs, but not too many and they enjoy it too, for the most part...once in a while there's a little squabble but never anything serious. It's usually over a toy or something.

So, hopefully your two girls will be fine. I do find that the girls, if they argue can be much more intense than the boys. Go figure. :2in1:


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Here's something about winter nose: (it's not usually caused by disease, but a thyroid issue is sometimes behind it)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have had two - three girls for the past 15 years, never had any squabbles. I have also noted at the dog park that anytime a fight breaks out, it is always between boys. But all of my girls have been spayed, I suspect that the tales that you hear about "bitch fights" may be about unspayed bitches.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Here's something about winter nose: (it's not usually caused by disease, but a thyroid issue is sometimes behind it)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh and that link you posted, that is about a nose getting light and then going back to being black - don't think that has anything to do with a nose that starts out brown and gets lighter as they age.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CharismaticMillie said:


> No, Brown noses really don't lighten with age (lose pigment) in the way that some black noses do.
> 
> Silver beige tends to have much a lighter colored nose than a brown or a cafe.



Every cream/apricot that I have ever known got lighter with age, and I have never, ever seen a black nose get lighter with age.
You must be thinking of a cream/apricot that had the darkest of brown, not black nose when it was young. But never, ever do you see a black or silver poodle with true black noses get a lighter nose as they get older!







13 year old silver Teaka's nose is just as black as 1.5 y/o Timi's!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Every cream/apricot that I have ever known got lighter with age, and I have never, ever seen a black nose get lighter with age.
> You must be thinking of a cream/apricot that had the darkest of brown, not black nose when it was young. But never, ever do you see a black or silver poodle with true black noses get a lighter nose as they get older!
> View attachment 255402
> 
> 13 year old silver Teaka's nose is just as black as 1.5 y/o Timi's!


No. I am talking about genetically black pigmented white/cream/apricot/red poodles (BBee or Bbee) who lose black pigment over time or who have poor or incomplete black pigment. This is quite common and undesirable in many genetically black pigmented white/cream/apricot/red poodles (BBee or Bbee) and is different from a genetically brown pigmented white/cream/ apricot/red poodle (bbee).

You will not see a genetically black/blue/silver coated poodle (BBEE, BBEe, BbEE or BbEe) with faded pigment, that is correct.


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## Naira (Jan 9, 2015)

I know nothing about poodle colors/genes but just wanted to say your baby is very cute! I will leave this to the experts!

A silver...or a phantom...or a silver phantom is on my radar one day!

I'm guessing this is just a silver and not a silver phantom...but whatever hue of silver it is, I find silvers beautiful!!!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Adding that "snow nose" or "winter nose" is specific to dogs with black pigment (in poodles this includes black pigmented white/cream/apricot/red) who have noses that fade in the winter. Sometimes the color returns in the summer and sometimes the pigment loss is more permanent. Hormones (think in season bitch) are another factor that can cause black pigment to fade. It is not known what causes it, just some theories about daylight hours and/or genetic components (ie a propensity for the black pigment to fade) but I do know that in the breeding and show world, a white/cream/apricot/red that holds it's inky black pigment until old age is much more desirable than one who loses its black pigment during the winter or as it ages (referred to as having poor black pigment). Many a "snow nose" is colored black for the show ring.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CharismaticMillie said:


> No. I am talking about genetically black pigmented white/cream/apricot/red poodles (BBee or Bbee) who lose black pigment over time or who have poor or incomplete black pigment. This is quite common and undesirable in many genetically black pigmented white/cream/apricot/red poodles (BBee or Bbee) and is different from a genetically brown pigmented white/cream/ apricot/red poodle (bbee).
> 
> 
> 
> You will not see a genetically black/blue/silver coated poodle (BBEE, BBEe, BbEE or BbEe) with faded pigment, that is correct.



Interesting - there are so few black pigmented white/cream/apricot/reds, that I did not know that they loose pigment over time too. I guess that means those colors ALWAYS do?


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Adding that "snow nose" or "winter nose" is specific to dogs with black pigment (in poodles this includes black pigmented white/cream/apricot/red) who have noses that fade in the winter. Sometimes the color returns in the summer and sometimes the pigment loss is more permanent. Hormones (think in season bitch) are another factor that can cause black pigment to fade. It is not known what causes it, just some theories about daylight hours and/or genetic components (ie a propensity for the black pigment to fade) but I do know that in the breeding and show world, a white/cream/apricot/red that holds it's inky black pigment until old age is much more desirable than one who loses its black pigment during the winter or as it ages (referred to as having poor black pigment). Many a "snow nose" is colored black for the show ring.



I know, I so wish that they would not allow nose coloring in the show ring - then those with fading points would quickly be eliminated from the gene pool!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Interesting - there are so few black pigmented white/cream/apricot/reds, that I did not know that they loose pigment over time too. I guess that means those colors ALWAYS do?


There aren't that few, really. Nearly all (and I say nearly because I am sure some liver/brown pigmented who are painted black for the ring) white/cream/apricot/red show dogs have black pigment. Whether it holds or fades is another story. But very few show breeders will keep a white/cream/apricot/red that doesn't genetically have black points.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CharismaticMillie said:


> There aren't that few, really. Nearly all (and I say nearly because I am sure some liver/brown pigmented who are painted black for the ring) white/cream/apricot/red show dogs have black pigment. Whether it holds or fades is another story. But very few show breeders will keep a white/cream/apricot/red that doesn't genetically have black points.



Problem is I guess that you just never know, and the "painted" ones get finished, and pass those genes along to the next generation so it never gets eliminated.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I know, I so wish that they would not allow nose coloring in the show ring - then those with fading points would quickly be eliminated from the gene pool!


I recommend you read these links:

The myth of hybrid vigor in dogs...is a myth - The Institute of Canine Biology

Bad Genes, Babies & Bathwater - Australian Shepherd Health & Genetics Institute

There is no perfect dog in any breed. Experienced breeders such as mine would take a dog with a fault that is not a serious health hazard and breed to a dog with better nose pigment (to take your example) and there would likely be some or all puppies born with noses that stay black. That is...if it is decidedly hereditary. 

Experienced and knowledgeable breeders do not rule out all dogs with this fault or that one since that makes the dog imperfect. But they have more the mind set of _*how can I improve the next generation without decreasing the gene pool even more. *_If every breeder picked out every dog with a fault, the gene pool would become even more dangerously narrow than it already is. And we all know it is. Purebred dogs are in real trouble. 

This is why you'll find Dobermans, for example that are affected with Von Willebrands. It is not typically a clinical problem with Dobermans...but can be. My Doberman was affected but had his ears cropped, got neutered, got gashes playing in the woods...never had a bleeding problem (in fact, had very fast clotting time tests) until he got liver disease and had a biopsy, which got fixed up with a transfusion, including a plasma transfusion. However, they have other much more tragic diseases that are in all the lines somewhere. Those need to be eliminated or reduced if possible. But a dog that does not have a bad ancestry record of cardio myopathy, osteosarcoma or Wobblers, is healthy all except he carries Von Willebrands might well be bred to keep the population more versatile. You just can't pick out every dog with a fault because there aren't that many without a fault of some kind and genetic fitness will be compromised if the gene pool becomes smaller. Theoretically the domestic dog could become extinct in fact. 

Matisse has beautiful black pigment on his body. When he's shaved in a Continental, he looks gorgeous. His head is magnificent, (quote from a judge) and his gait is phenomenal (also quoted by a judge). His temperament is delightful and he's just flat out put together beautifully. But his nose went light on me. My breeder says if he is to be bred, we'll breed to a bitch with good nose pigment...no problemo. It is not a conformational fault...just some frivolous whim of the AKC, which could change at some time in the future. It is not a structural or skeletal fault. This also may not be hereditary at all. It may be some dermatologic thing. They don't know for sure what causes it. There, so far exists no diseases that are genetic in my dogs. His lines are spectacular and I wouldn't dream of throwing the baby out with the bath water on account of a minor fault, reducing the genetic fitness of a breed, even a species even more by narrowing the gene pool or reducing the fitness of a population even more. The mind set of tossing out of breeding programs any and every dog with any and every fault is what got us where we are now...with most every breed so tightly inbred (line breeding is no different than inbreeding...it's all too close and too little genetic material) that we have all but ruined the health of purebred dogs.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Problem is I guess that you just never know, and the "painted" ones get finished, and pass those genes along to the next generation so it never gets eliminated.


I agree, although to a degree. Personally, having genetically liver/brown pigment is unforgivable to me for the show ring. Thankfully, it's difficult to hide brown lips and eyelids so a cream spectrum dog who has genetically brown/liver pigment is going to be fairly easy to discover. Also, only breeding to a stud dog color tested not to carry any brown is a guarantee that the dog actually has black pigment. More difficult is avoiding black pigment that fades. This is what is so common and often painted in the ring. I admittedly find inky black pigment that stays until old age to be very desirable but it's olaved below a heck of a lot of other qualities on my priority list. I do happen to have a 4 year old white with holding inky black pigment so that may be part of the reason perfect holding pigment is not at the top of my priorities right now. That and the fact that I really do prefer black poodles anyway. <3


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I agree, although to a degree. Personally, having genetically liver/brown pigment is unforgivable to me for the show ring. Thankfully, it's difficult to hide brown lips and eyelids so a cream spectrum dog who has genetically brown/liver pigment is going to be fairly easy to discover. Also, only breeding to a stud dog color tested not to carry any brown is a guarantee that the dog actually has black pigment. More difficult is avoiding black pigment that fades. This is what is so common and often painted in the ring. I admittedly find inky black pigment that stays until old age to be very desirable but it's olaved below a heck of a lot of other qualities on my priority list. I do happen to have a 4 year old white with holding inky black pigment so that may be part of the reason perfect holding pigment is not at the top of my priorities right now. That and the fact that I really do prefer black poodles anyway. <3



Oh I bet that it would be easy to spot in the show ring, but sadly due to judges awarding points to dogs for "other" reasons than the dog's worthiness, said dog can still get a championship slapped on it, and then some unsuspecting person on the other side of the country, or other side of the world decides to breed to the dog based upon the championship, and the show pictures which likely won't reveal the dog's faults, and then comes more poorly pigmented poodles.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I recommend you read these links:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am sorry, I really did not want to bring Matisse into it, he is a beautiful poodle just like my Timi, whom I am certain could have easily finished because I have seen blatantly lesser black bitches than her finish, but I have also seen cousins of hers that are even better than her, so why should she be the one to contribute to the gene pool? Her faults may be minor, but I think that the way to breed a better poodle is to breed one that has more and more minuscule faults than the last, not to say "good enough, let's stick with this". To keep the genetic diversity, you bring in dog's from other gene pools who have been bred to the same exacting standards, and then you have really got something special!
And sorry again to bring Matisse into it, but I am thinking that it would not as easy as you think to correct for the nose pigment by breeding to a darker pigmented dog, or your breeder would have done that decades ago, and he wouldn't have that issue in the first place.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Oh I bet that it would be easy to spot in the show ring, but sadly due to judges awarding points to dogs for "other" reasons than the dog's worthiness, said dog can still get a championship slapped on it, and then some unsuspecting person on the other side of the country, or other side of the world decides to breed to the dog based upon the championship, and the show pictures which likely won't reveal the dog's faults, and then comes more poorly pigmented poodles.


Which is why it is definitely best not to breed to a dog you haven't had your hands on personally IMO!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Sorry that your thread veered so far off topic Teresa! I can't wait to see how your new girl develops and how much fun you will have with two poodles!


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Naira said:


> I know nothing about poodle colors/genes but just wanted to say your baby is very cute! I will leave this to the experts!
> 
> A silver...or a phantom...or a silver phantom is on my radar one day!
> 
> I'm guessing this is just a silver and not a silver phantom...but whatever hue of silver it is, I find silvers beautiful!!!


Hi-5 Naira.... I know nuts about the gene/colors too, not as knowledgeable as the experts here... Hey that's the reason I'm here, to seek advise and to learn :adore:


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Sorry that your thread veered so far off topic Teresa! I can't wait to see how your new girl develops and how much fun you will have with two poodles!


Not a problem at all, Tiny Poodles... 
Pardon my silence, I'm not so knowledgable about breeding/genes/colors hence can't comment much.

Yeah... I hope I can overcome the whining & barking problem that may or may not happen (I hope).

We are welcoming her to our home soon & shall keep you wonderful guys posted on her 'performance'. LOL


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

We've decided to name the silver beige gal, Jobie.
Welcoming her to our home.


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Jobie said 'hi' to the Pawrents ☺


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Well congratulations, Jobie is very very cute


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Congratulations!
And her nose does look darker now, and her roots lighter, just what you wanted, yay!


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

don't forget to start on the 52 weeks of jobie thread! yay! another toy!


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Day 3 when we are out... Jobie is doing well, pooing at the correct spot ?


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Nice ex-pen set-up!


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Nice ex-pen set-up!


Thanks Tiny Poodles


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Day 6 #1


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Jobie super cute, and is going to be a lovely silver beige, I love how her face is lightening up.


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

twyla said:


> Jobie super cute, and is going to be a lovely silver beige, I love how her face is lightening up.


Thanks Twyla... We can't wait to see her color changing too.
It's kind of puzzling as I have some people telling me she might be light chocolate/brown or apricot/beige


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Day 6 #2


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Interesting - right now, depending upon the lighting she looks like an entirely different dog in every picture that you post. If it goes like silver, it will take a couple of years to see her final color, so it will be interesting for a long time . Def. not apricot though, some shade of brown, apricot is entirely different.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

A lot of people thought my tpoo Baby was a light apricot

Baby at 5 1/2 months with bad trim and high flying ears, I got her at 22 weeks so no tiny puppy pics


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Cute puppy. Love the color and the name you chose. I wouldn't worry about the nose color. What's important is the over all look, health and temperament in my book. And I think you've got a gem.


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Cute puppy. Love the color and the name you chose. I wouldn't worry about the nose color. What's important is the over all look, health and temperament in my book. And I think you've got a gem.


fully agreed what you've said.
We brought her to a vet check (4days after), so far so good. Hope she will grow up fit & healthy. :angel:


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Interesting - right now, depending upon the lighting she looks like an entirely different dog in every picture that you post. If it goes like silver, it will take a couple of years to see her final color, so it will be interesting for a long time . Def. not apricot though, some shade of brown, apricot is entirely different.


Oh yes...her color changes under different lighting. Really had hard time taking pictures of her 'real' color. Lol


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

twyla said:


> A lot of people thought my tpoo Baby was a light apricot
> 
> Baby at 5 1/2 months with bad trim and high flying ears, I got her at 22 weeks so no tiny puppy pics
> View attachment 256705


It's a rare color that not many can identify... 
Baby's ear is cute, like flying dumbo :coins:


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Jobie's coat is getting lighter each day...


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Jobie is perfectly adorable!!!!!


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Jobie is a cutie, she is going to be very light I think


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Almost 10 weeks young 
She got the monkey face look... Lol


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

TeresaYL said:


> Almost 10 weeks young
> 
> She got the monkey face look... Lol



Oh, she is getting very silvery already!


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Jobie is so cute, I love how her color is.


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Oh, she is getting very silvery already!


Until now, we couldn't believe she would be a silver beige... :dance:


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Update of Ms. Jobie.
Getting ready for her first shower ✌?️


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Oh... Love her sweet face


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Miss Jobie is so cute


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Oh my! What a pretty face!


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

BorderKelpie said:


> Oh my! What a pretty face!


Thanks.
May I know what color is your dog (shown in your profile picture)?


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

I'm anxious to see her after you shave her face the first time. It will give you a better idea of where her color is headed. At her age you really want to start getting her used to the clippers around her face now.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

TeresaYL said:


> Thanks.
> May I know what color is your dog (shown in your profile picture)?


She is supposed to be black - either she's a 'bad black' or is trying to fade to a rather dark blue. (I prefer my descripted of sugar frosted black to bad, though. lol)


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

N2Mischief said:


> I'm anxious to see her after you shave her face the first time. It will give you a better idea of where her color is headed. At her age you really want to start getting her used to the clippers around her face now.


Yes... Us too! She was given a manicure service when we pick her home last month:act-up:


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

BorderKelpie said:


> She is supposed to be black - either she's a 'bad black' or is trying to fade to a rather dark blue. (I prefer my descripted of sugar frosted black to bad, though. lol)



It's a very unique color & she looks gorgeous


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## JET5498 (Apr 22, 2015)

Such a good looking puppy, I would love her no matter what her coloring is. With my mini damm is black and sire is café, Windsor shows very little café the only place he has it get shaved for his AKC and UKC confirmation shows.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Oh My Gosh! Jobie is just precious! Beautiful, beautiful, color......whatever it turns out to be! LOL!!!!!


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

noticed her color changing @ 11 weeks young


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I love those little feet, yep Ms. Jobie is getting lighter


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Her grumpy face ?
Groomer suggested to shave her short, any view on this?


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

TeresaYL said:


> Her grumpy face ?
> 
> Groomer suggested to shave her short, any view on this?



Personally, I like to shave so that I can see my poodles face! Plus, that will give you an even better peek into how light his coat will get - I say do it!


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

TeresaYL said:


> Her grumpy face &#55357;&#56833;
> Groomer suggested to shave her short, any view on this?


I just wanna poke a little puppy belly! What a cute baby!!!


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Personally, I like to shave so that I can see my poodles face! Plus, that will give you an even better peek into how light his coat will get - I say do it!


Yeah... I guess we are keen to see her true color too


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

BorderKelpie said:


> I just wanna poke a little puppy belly! What a cute baby!!!


Haha... This grumpy face just had her weekly shower and we thought this picture look so much like bunny


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I love a shaved face, Miss Jobie is so cute


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## JET5498 (Apr 22, 2015)

Just clean up her face and feet. As far as her color I don't know until she gets a little older. Windsor was all black and now he has a little bit of brown on his belly at 18 months.


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Am I getting there?? Silver/B...


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## Luce (Mar 4, 2013)

I just reached cuteness overload!! Your white one looks like a stuffed toy - so perfectly cute!!


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Luce said:


> I just reached cuteness overload!! Your white one looks like a stuffed toy - so perfectly cute!!


Thank you for the compliment，Luce...


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Jobie is too cute, she looks like a very happy puppy


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## JET5498 (Apr 22, 2015)

Just wanted hug adorable pup. Love there little faces, and curls.


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Hi, how do we know if Jobie is fading to s/beige or bad brown?
Need some expertise views & opinion? Any experience breeder or those who show-dog here to help?


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I still say she is a silver beige, she is clearing roots out just like a silver beige should


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

TeresaYL said:


> Hi, how do we know if Jobie is fading to s/beige or bad brown?


Didn't we establish the difference earlier in this same thread?

At the rate the grey is coming in, there simply is no way this pup is not a silver beige. One does not need showing or breeding experience to make an informed assessment of silver beige colour at this point. No other colouration is born brown and changes so fast. What you see at the roots is what you will be getting. Silver beige.

"Bad" brown would be a dog that looks brown all over throughout its life, but with closer scrutiny, would not be even in tone. Usually due to individual guard hairs coming in grey or white, starting around coat change age, and possibly increasing with age-related greying.

In any case, there's little reason to worry about this. Your Jobie by any colour name as sweet will look. Everyone here seems to agree she's a silver beige. If you want an absolute authority, you'll have to wait until a lab offers a DNA test for the Poodle silvering gene.



peccan said:


> (...) "Bad" brown will look much like a decent brown for months at least and blue factor + brown (whatever it's called) will take many many months to even show proper hint of lightening and will take years to clear out.


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

twyla said:


> I still say she is a silver beige, she is clearing roots out just like a silver beige should


Thank you Twyla..


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

peccan said:


> Didn't we establish the difference earlier in this same thread?
> 
> At the rate the grey is coming in, there simply is no way this pup is not a silver beige. One does not need showing or breeding experience to make an informed assessment of silver beige colour at this point. No other colouration is born brown and changes so fast. What you see at the roots is what you will be getting. Silver beige.
> 
> ...


Peccan,
Thank you so much for taking up your time and answer my doubt.
Back then, we aren't very sure of her real color.. We know she is clearing but was advised that she might have grey out a little too fast.

Moreover, we aren't familiarize on silver breed poodle... And so I'm here to know & find out more. In fact there're a lot more to learn from you guys. 

Oh, thanks for your compliment.. Yes she's a sweetie and monster at home. Lol


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## JET5498 (Apr 22, 2015)

I would say silver / beige with brown tips until the poodle coat comes in. Sorry that I'm not a lot of help. I do show miniature poodles.


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

JET5498 said:


> I would say silver / beige with brown tips until the poodle coat comes in. Sorry that I'm not a lot of help. I do show miniature poodles.


Hi JET5498,

No worries at all, thank you for the reply!


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Ms Jobie has transformed from poodle to baby pony :angel:


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Our skinny pony needs to gain some fats....


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Miss Jobie is turning into a lovely silver -beige girl wowww pretty girl


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Hi there,
It's been a while since I'm away...
Do I look less horrible after my fur grew?


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Jobie is a beautiful girl


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Finally. Jobie has her 1st lamb clip.
We love it, she looks so gorgeous in it.


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## JET5498 (Apr 22, 2015)

She is gorgeous in the lamb clip. Good luck with her.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

She is absolutely adorable! Love the lamb trim!


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Jobie is so cute in her new haircut and looking so adult now


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

She looks so grown up and just beautiful!!!


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

BorderKelpie said:


> She looks so grown up and just beautiful!!!



Thank you Borderkelpie


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Hi, it's been awhile since we last update.
Here is Jobie's growing process to her 1st year ☺


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## Muggles (Mar 14, 2015)

Wow what a transformation. She is just lovely.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

What a beauty! Her coloration is gorgeous!!!!


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

TeresaYL said:


> Hi, it's been awhile since we last update.
> Here is Jobie's growing process to her 1st year ☺



Wow, she was pretty when she was a baby, but she's gorgeous now!!


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## Lori G (Sep 19, 2014)

Oh my! She is beautiful! I love seeing the color change all in one picture frame! Adorable!


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Jobie has grown into a gorgeous girl


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Wow! She really does get prettier every day! I love the color progression photos.
So cute!


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

What a lovely girl!


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## TeresaYL (May 15, 2015)

Hi lovely pawrent,
Thank you for the compliment ☺But this gorgeous sweetie pie has her super unglam image too :aetsch:


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