# new puppy suggestions



## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

She looks like a phantom poodle (color), so her colors should hold, although the black might "fade" or grizzle. Are you asking about registration or showing? 

My sister has a black/tan phantom MPOO and his color held nicely (black is still inky black at 8 years of age).

The more important thing is the breeder. Is this a reputable breeder? Does s/he health test, etc.? 

She's adorable.


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## Lovemypoodle (Dec 28, 2011)

She is at A Breed Above Puppies LLC in monroe,nc which seems to be very nice people and love their puppies. we get to go down this weekend to talk to them, are there any standard questions to ask before our final purchase? We are not interested in showing our poodle just wanted to make sure she can be akc registered. thanks for the information! and she is so cute!


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## dawns (Jun 29, 2010)

that looks like a puppy broker business, i would be cautious about buying a puppy from them.


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## Panda (Jan 7, 2010)

They don't mention anything about health testing at all. I would be very cautious about getting a Poodle from them. There will be loads of better breeders who health test out there. I would keep looking.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I too am uneasy about that site, and especially about the various "designer breed" litters - 
Questions to ask before you visit:
Are the parents health tested? And can you have copies of the results in advance of visiting?
Are the parents AKC registered?
Do the breeders show their dogs, and with what results?
How many litters do they breed each year?
Will you be able to see both parents with the puppy?
Are the puppies raised in the home - and is that the same home that you will be visiting?
What socialisation have the pups had?

This looks very much a case of breeding for profit at best, and puppy farming/brokering at worst. I don't want to rain on your parade, but I would tread very, very carefully.


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

Can someone please link her to pinky's posts about Charlie?


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Oh my GOODNESS they're cute!!!! But you want a dog that will be healthy and happy for many many years, so I agree with the cautions stated above.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

FunkyPuppy said:


> Can someone please link her to pinky's posts about Charlie?


A very sad tale, but hopefully it will sway others from making the same heartbreaking 'mistake.' 

http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/8461-charlie-arrives-tomorrow-last-minute-questions.html
http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/8501-charlies-hospital.html
http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/8542-charlie-died.html
http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/8547-suggestion-re-pinky-charlie.html
http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/8824-go-pinky-go.html
http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle...t-bday-1-year-anniversary-charlies-death.html

After reviewing the website, I agree with everyone else. There are numerous warning flags--multiple designer dogs, no mention of health testing, no signs of a responsible breeder, etc. The entire "About Us" page turns my stomach. There is nothing about the breeding program, her breeding goals or anything of substance, period. What's with all the pics (people)??? That last pic is probably _her _new playground, purchased on the backs of these poor puppies. 

I'm sorry and I don't mean to offend anyone's spiritual beliefs: But what does God have to do with responsible breeding and breeding healthy puppies? The Bible / religious quotes on _every _page actually makes me cringe. It strikes me that she's trying to suggest a good Christian wouldn't steer you wrong. "Trust me, I have God in my life" or something of that nature. I don't patronize businesses that do this, whether they're roofers or breeders or plumbers. (We had this discussion on here somewhere.)

I implore you to look elsewhere, and I know it's hard. These sites use cute pictures of puppies to draw buyers in.


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## poodlesplease (Sep 6, 2011)

Dear Rowan,

Thanks for posting that. I was not aware of these threads as I am a newer member. My friends recently bought a pet store dog after the rescue was taking too long. The rescue called the day after they bought the puppy with the all clear for the rescue. ugh. These links are a great resource to us trying to convince others. I am so sorry this had to happen, but I do think it is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of the mistreatment of puppy mill animals. Did you guys ever get a facebook page going?


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

I will NOT buy from them.

Here's a blog post talking about how to tell a good breeder site from a bad one: How to tell a good breeder website from a bad one | | Ruffly SpeakingRuffly Speaking

I'm assuming you are looking for a toy poodle. Here's a list of questions you should be asking a toy poodle breeder:

http://www.vipoodle.org/PDF_Files/Toy_Poodle.pdf

Let me know your location and what you are looking for. I might be able to help but again, I would never buy from this breeder/broker/agent.

ETA: I bought a pet store dog 16 years ago. He was/is/will always be my heart dog but he had every single diseases that's prone to the breed. Health testing is not going to 100% guaranteed you a healthy pet. Nothing in life is guaranteed BUT you know you have done what you can to make sure you are getting a healthy dog. Don't support heartless "breeders".


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I would not buy from them. I was one of the first ones to look at this thread and thought ... let someone else tell them the bad news. It looks like a family selling puppies for $$$$ and nothing more to me.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I hope anyone, new members and veterans, reading this thread does not take any of these posts negatively. Some people may think we are being breeder snobs, or poodle snobs, but this is not the case. I have learned so much from this forum and the push for better breeding practices from _reputable_ breeders has been one of them. I too, have been a victim to the "puppies for sale" on the side of the road and even some relatives of mine bred puppies for profit. The whole point of breeding should be to improve the breed. I know you, Lovemypoodle, will cherish and love any dog that comes into your life, and I hope you consider other options. We are not attacking you, merely trying to guide you to help support the poodle breed in the best possible way.


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## Lovemypoodle (Dec 28, 2011)

We've put a small deposit down on the puppy which is okay we are going to check them out this weekend. We went to a place called Margie's poodles in troutman,nc which without a doubt was a puppy mill which has had several complaints to the animal control. I've not seen that with this kennel but that is why we are checking it out first. Thanks for all your info. Please feel free to pm me with suggestions of breeders in the Charlotte area.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Lovemypoodle said:


> She is at A Breed Above Puppies LLC in monroe,nc which seems to be very nice people and love their puppies. we get to go down this weekend to talk to them, are there any standard questions to ask before our final purchase? We are not interested in showing our poodle just wanted to make sure she can be akc registered. thanks for the information! and she is so cute!


The statement in red confuses me... If you're not interested in showing your poodle (and I assume that includes performance events?) *WHY *does it even matter that she can be AKC registered??

Are _YOU _planning to breed her someday?? If that's the case, then I don't think anything that anyone tells you here will make much difference - I haven't looked at the breeder's website, but if she's as sketchy as I'm being led to believe by the numerous negative comments, I'm going to assume that she won't blink to sell you a puppy with full breeding rights (even if the puppy is NOT breeding quality - which it probably won't be...)

Having different prices for males and females is a red flag for me as well... to me, it shows that they're selling the girls for more because someone may want to breed them someday and make some money of their own -so the original breeder feels they can jack the price a bit for the bitches... I don't like it...

I truly wish there was a good way to educate EVERYONE on the best way to acquire a new puppy - but it only works if the person receiving the education actually wants to listen and will follow the good advice given.

Too often people are in too much of a hurry to get a puppy (like poodlesplease's friends who just couldn't wait ONE MORE DAY for the rescue to come through...) C'mon people!! These dogs are going to be with you (hopefully) for more than a dozen YEARS!!! What's a few more days, weeks or months to do your homework and stop putting $$ into the hands of unscrupulous breeders??

When I was looking for my first poodle, I put my name on a waiting list, knowing full well that if my puppy wasn't born "this" time, I'd have to wait up to a year longer, and you know what?? That was A-OK with me! It just meant that I could learn more, do more research, prepare better, etc... Happily, I was able to bring my Lucybug home from the litter I signed up for, but I could've and would've waited...

My suggestion to the OP is to keep looking! Find a breeder who does things right and who will be there for you when you have questions in the future. Don't sweat the AKC registration unless you ARE planning to show or prove your pup in performance events - for what Godly (sorry Rowan! :angel2 purpose would you need the papers for if not showing or competing?? 

Good luck (and if you insist on buying from this breeder, something tells me you're going to need it...) :doh:

ETA: I just visited the "breeders" site... Ugh! Yah, not good... they call their puppies "stock", what's up with that?? Also they talk about the "Kennel's" business hours, etc... I'm assuming that means the puppies are not raised in the house? I don't like that either... When I looked at the pictures of the puppies, all of them looked like their facial hair had been wet or something... like, do they get so dirty in the kennel that they have to be washed up before getting a picture taken? And in one of the pictures in particular, there was debris littering the white blanket on which the pup was sitting - why? Did the debris come from the kennel environment? All I can say is yuck... You can do better (easily!)


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

How far are you willing to travel and what are you looking for in a poodle? Do you want a specific color, gender, temperament or are you willing to work with a breeder to get the best fit for your family? In other words, what are your priorities? 

I'm not asking to be impertinent, but in hopes that we can steer you towards a breeder who is both reputable and will find you a puppy who is healthy and has the qualities you seek. There are many wonderful breeders out there, but I fear this isn't one of them. Please, please, _please _read Pinky's posts about Charlie. She purchased Charlie from a breeder much like this one and had her heart broken while watching this little dog suffer and die. 

*Schnauzerpoodle *has done extensive research when it comes to breeders and I'm sure she can make some recommendations. Take advantage of her offer to help. Everyone is here to help and above all, our goal is to prevent future "Charlie" stories. You'll find that most of us simply adore poodles and have no nefarious agenda. We want to maintain the breed's integrity and keep $$$ out of unscrupulous breeder's pockets. We are first and foremost for the poodles! 

Good luck with your search! I hope you find a poodle companion who brings you and your family many years of joy.


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Don't rush into getting a pet. S/he is going to stay with you and your family for 12+ years. That is, if you have a 10-year-old kid, this dog is going to see her graduate from elementary school, see her going to junior high, see her talking back to you, see her going to high school, see her driving your car and bump into something, be one of her passengers, see her date and see her heart got broken, see her in her prom dress, see her leave home and go to college … This dog is going to experience a lot with you and your family. This dog deserves some decent research. You and your family deserve a healthy, kind, loving pet. Step back, stay calm, see things with a critical mind and you will find your perfect puppy.

I have so far talked to over 80 breeders (Poodles of all 3 varieties and other breeds, cat breeders too). I never go to look at puppies before I know that I can trust the breeder. I don't want to set myself up in the cute-puppy situation. Let me know what you are looking for and I will pull out my geeky breeder spreadsheet and see if there's someone that would work for you.

Don't hurry into putting down your deposit. If you are able to prove to the breeder that you can provide a good home for one of her puppies, she will make sure one of her puppies is going to your home. Not one reputable breeder has ever rushed me into putting down a deposit. In fact, a few breeders emailed me to tell me when they had puppies that they thought would work with me and my resident dog and they said they would wait for my reply before posting those on the websites. Really, no rush, don't rush!


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Lovemypoodle said:


> Please feel free to pm me with suggestions of breeders in the Charlotte area.


Are you looking for Toys or Minis?


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Lovemypoodle;

Please err on the side of caution and be aware of all of this good advice for the future. I did no research and my breeder did not refuse to sell me a number of poodles, as I have since learned good breeders do from Poodle Forum. Now I have several challenging, on-going situations on my hands.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I am in complete agreement with everyone else. There are too many red flags! There are so many reputable, ethical breeders out there, who are health testing and doing things the right way. I sincerely hope you will do your research and buy from this type of breeder, so your wallet and your heart will not be broken kin short order!!


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Have you looked into a rescue? This one was on Petfinders just a few weeks ago. I think it was 5 months old and 4 lbs.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

Carley's Mom said:


> Have you looked into a rescue? This one was on Petfinders just a few weeks ago. I think it was 5 months old and 4 lbs.


CPR isn't that far from the OP, and they have many poodles at the rescue that aren't listed on the website. 
Carolina Poodle Rescue Poodle 
Scroll down to *Shadow*/*Bailey *(both puppies w/out pics).  For more puppy cuteness, check out *Matilda*! If you want a mix, look no further than puppy *Wes*.

And there's this one too: — North Carolina Poodle Rescue — ADOPTIONS —*RescueMe.Org


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## Pinky (Jul 21, 2010)

Goodness there's a lot of puppies on that website along with their MAJOR red flags. My heart sank when I read that you put a deposit on one of these puppies. This is NOT a good idea whatsoever. 

Their guarantee is poorly written. Perhaps I missed it, but the website makes absolutely no reference to the precautions they've taken to ensure they are not selling sick puppies. There is no mention of genetic testing. It states that there is no guarantee on size yet on the bottom of every picture there is a weight estimate. No one can tell you how much your dog is going to weigh and most breeders just list the standard weight for the breed, which wouldn't be a weight range with a difference of two pounds like with some of these puppies. 

A responsible breeder will want to meet you before they decide to sell you one of their puppies, or in the case of this website a puppy from their "stock", and wouldn't urge you to put down a non-refundable deposit before even meeting you to see if you are a good match for their pup. This seems pushy to me:

"If you see a puppy on this site that you want, you will need to put a deposit down in order for us to hold that puppy, or else someone could come in and buy the puppy or email with a paypal deposit and you won't be able to get it."

I think people understand the concept of a deposit and don't need to be told someone else can buy the dog you want unless you put down a deposit. I also see no application. My breeder had me fill out an application before I could even meet my puppy with questions like how many people are living in my household and their ages (especially with small dogs, most breeders don't want the pups going to homes with young children) and if other dogs live in the house and so on. This person is just willing to take your deposit without knowing anything about you first. By the way, I work for PayPal and it against the User Agreement to charge the buyer a fee when accepting payments through PayPal that they don't charge for any other payment method:

"If you wish to pay the full price of the puppy using paypal, there is an additional fee, determined by the total cost you will be charging."

The payment fee charged by PayPal is to be paid by the seller, not the buyer. I will look at their account when I get to work later to see if they are breaking any other terms of the User Agreement. As it is also stated in the User Agreement, live animals are not covered under PayPal's Buyer Protection so if anything goes wrong with this purchase, you will have no recourse with PayPal. 

All of the family pictures are a bit creepy especially all the pictures of children. Why would you want to put so many pictures of your kids on a website that's available for anyone to see? And the Scriptures are a bit much. I know my breeder very well now and she is religious, but all that's on her website is a "God Bless" after an extensive description of her breeding history. To me, all of the Scriptures seem like a way to gain your trust by leading you to believe they must be trustworthy if they are Christian. 

I TRULY hope you change your mind about buying your puppy from these people. Take it from me, it is not worth the hearbreak you will inevitably suffer. Don't think that just because you know someone that bought a puppy mill dog and their dog is fine that yours will be too. I had already purchased my poodle when I found this forum and I leaned towards that mindset and told myself that MY dog would be ok, but as you know she wasn't and I still feel ashamed and like a piece of crap for supporting such a heinous business. The ONLY reason businesses such as these are still around is because people keep buying from them. PLEASE don't support this abuse. 

I think this is your only thread, but what is your reason for getting a dog? Do you have a family? Do you own your home or rent? There is absolutely no rush in getting a dog and I hope you've seriously thought it through. I am saying this from personal experience and because I am concerned by your comment about how your friend couldn't wait any longer to adopt from a rescue group and so she bought a dog from a store. Seriously? I ended up getting my puppy now 2 months after Charlie died and honestly it was probably too soon. I don't regret it whatsoever, I LOVE my dog and she's healthy and adorable, but pets are a huge responsibility. When I bought Charlie, it was for selfish reasons. I thought of what a puppy would do for me emotionally and how fulfilling it would be to have one. Don't get me wrong, I love my puppy more than anything and she has enriched my life in ways I never even imagined were possible, but I do a lot for her. They're also a lot to deal with financially. If you don't own your home, you have to worry about pet deposits and pet rent and in my case paying $900 to replace the carpet once you move out :/ If you have a family, are your kids old enough and responsible enough to have a small puppy? If you live alone, trust me you will feel guilty for leaving the dog alone while you're away. I lived alone for a few months and it tore at my soul to leave her alone 12 hours a day. Thankfully now she's only home alone for 2 hours a day. Dogs are amazing, but they are also emotionally and financially draining at times so just please make sure you are doing it for the right reasons and are willing to give this puppy a FOREVER home before you move forward with this purchase. I would go on petfinder.com and see if there are any dogs there that you would like to meet. When I bought my puppy I was so traumatized from Charlie that I wanted to make sure I got my dog from a good breeder, but all of my future dogs will definitely be adopted. You'll save a life and not support puppy mills. Just think about it and I wish you the best of luck in finding your perfect pup.


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Well said, Pinky. Well said. I am sorry that you had to learn this the hard way but you have apparently learned your lesson. Stormy is a lucky girl to have you. You both are lucky to have each other.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

OMG Pinky, have you GROWN!!! Awesome post - and THANK YOU!!


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Bravo, Pinky! Well said.


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