# Swift Water Standard Poodles?



## Daysleeper

So I'm not going to be looking for a puppy or dog for a good few years yet, but I'm hugely in love with phantom standards. And today I stumbled across this breeder: Swift Water Standards.

I know reputably bred phantom standards are few and far between, but these folk look absolutely wonderful, judging solely from the website. And quite local to me as a bonus! Does anyone have any experience to the breeder or just comments on the site itself? I know next to nothing about conformation, but their dogs look gorgeous.


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## Purley

That link didn't work for me. How about this?

Swift Water Standard Poodles ~ Merrimac, MA


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## Daysleeper

Hm, odd, worked for me, but I'm far from an expert with HTML. Yes, that's the kennel I'm talking about! What do you think?


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## PaddleAddict

I am not familiar with this breeder, but I liked what I saw on the site.. health testing results and pedigrees posted, conformation (UKC) titles, performance titles, etc.


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## Dogsinstyle

I know Bonnie well. She does her homework. I would recommend her.
Carole


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## Fluffyspoos

I love that brown phantom.. really pretty dog.


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## whitepoodles

What is this breeder's health guarantee?


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## Daysleeper

All I know is what's on the site, but I'll update this if I decide to contact her. I'm still a little hesitant, if only because I'm still two years out from seriously considering a dog!


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## whitepoodles

Daysleeper said:


> All I know is what's on the site, but I'll update this if I decide to contact her. I'm still a little hesitant, if only because I'm still two years out from seriously considering a dog!


Daysleeper:
Nothing wrong in starting to do your homeword and research breeders 1-2 years before you are ready to purchase your pup.
I have these type of inquiries all the time and I take my time and e-mail or speak to these people and provide them with information. If they feel comfortable with our talks then they will come back and get their pup from Ormar but if they dont they can go elsewhere... as long as the client gets a good well bred puppy from a reputable and honest breeder who cares about health and temperament more than ribbons and wins that is a good thing.
This is what's important. I offer a 5 years health guarantee, that is not to say that every breeder should do the same, we are all individuals and do our own thing and believe in different ways of doing thing, but I say that if the breeder is reputable and caring they should at least offer a 3 years written health guarantee. 
And.. yes you do want to see the written guarantee that breeders have even if it is 2 years prior to you planning to ad a puppy to your home. MHO


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## Daysleeper

Thank you for the advice! Right now I feel a bit like I'm shooting in the dark when it comes to planning for a dog, since I'm just starting grad school and so can't _really_ predict what my living situation will be like. The two-year waiting period I've imposed on myself is to build up my savings, get a car, and allow my partner to finish school so we can live together. So I'm trying to cover all my bases. I love standards, but because of rental size restrictions I may be limited to a very small standard (intentionally bred 'klein/moyen' or not) or minis. And I'm also keeping one eye open for my other love, Lagotto Romagnolo. I haven't had great results e-mailing breeders so far, but I don't know if it's because they aren't 'e-mail people' or because I state right up front that I'm not interested in a pup until a few years down the road. But I'll send off an e-mail and at the very least they'll know someone's admiring their dogs!


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## whitepoodles

Daysleeper said:


> Thank you for the advice! Right now I feel a bit like I'm shooting in the dark when it comes to planning for a dog, since I'm just starting grad school and so can't _really_ predict what my living situation will be like. The two-year waiting period I've imposed on myself is to build up my savings, get a car, and allow my partner to finish school so we can live together. So I'm trying to cover all my bases. I love standards, but because of rental size restrictions I may be limited to a very small standard (intentionally bred 'klein/moyen' or not) or minis. And I'm also keeping one eye open for my other love, Lagotto Romagnolo. I haven't had great results e-mailing breeders so far, but I don't know if it's because they aren't 'e-mail people' or because I state right up front that I'm not interested in a pup until a few years down the road. But I'll send off an e-mail and at the very least they'll know someone's admiring their dogs!


Daysleeper: 
Your planning and the way you take your time is commendable. It shows you are going to be a very responsible and comitted dog owner.
I am afraid I dont know the other breed you are mentioning. Never heard about them, sorry. We poodle people are so into poodles 
Can you post a photo of this type of dog? Miniatures are great like them too. A mini with a great temperament is wonderful to have and live with.
The breeders who are listeners and who breed for the betterment of the breed will respect your doing your homework way in advance of getting a puppy and will not be put off or show disinterest. Others who want to make a fast buck and believe if it is not you then the next one will come will not respond as they most likely are looking for current clients who want dogs yesterday or today but not in the far future. 
I know that whenever you decide to ad this puppy to your home you will not only make sure you and your partner are ready but that you also aquire h/her from a reputable and caring breeder.
Good luck in your studies.


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## whitepoodles

Just googled Lagotto Romagnolo it is cute.. basicaly very similar to the Barbet (lower on leg) and also PWD..both these breeds are very similar to the Lagotto Romagnolo you are inquiring about as well. I am sure that they are also a non shedding breed. Cute breed.


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## Daysleeper

Thank you for the encouragement! I certainly wish I didn't have the good sense to wait at times, but I know it's better in the long run. As for the breeders, well, I don't want to write anyone off because they don't get back to one e-mail. My method so far is to e-mail them, wait a good couple months, then try back. I did get through to one breeder that way. Sometimes people are busy, or the mail gets buried, or they genuinely don't use the internet very much and depend more on the phone than e-mail. Right now I'm stuck with just the internet because I'm out of the country, so my options are limited. Once I get back home, and as I get more serious, I'll start phonecalls to people I can't reach otherwise. But I'll certainly cross anyone off that repeatedly brushes me off!

Honestly, my initial instinct was to rescue a poodle in need from a shelter, especially since I'd love an adult dog. But after seeing rescue after rescue that absolutely 100% require a fenced yard, or poodle experience, or someone home all day every day, I'm ready to say that a breeder will be less headache for a healthier animal. I'll still put in to adopt if there's a dog that suits our family when we're ready, but I suspect we won't be their idea of the ideal owners.

Lagotti are wonderful little dogs, very similar to poodles in a lot of ways, as I understand it. They're smart and charming water retrievers from Italy, but these days they're actually used for hunting truffles! Apparently they're less likely to eat their find than pigs are. Some even say that they're somewhere in the ancestry of the modern poodle! Smaller than Barbets or PWDs, though, the max they reach is about 35 pounds. And yep, they're also non-shedding and recommended for allergy sufferers, which is actually how I found them. Their big issue is that they're so rare that you're likely to pay _twice_ the cost of a well-bred poodle for one in the states!


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## whitepoodles

Daysleeper:
I am sure that there are many stand. poodle requiring re homing and are in shelters waiting to be adopted. I would look into this as well maybe first before aproaching a breeder, just if you want to save a life. I have heard many that are in need of rehoming are wonderful and posess great temperament. For the life of me I have no idea why some people get rid of a dog who is just super to be with. Wish you luck.


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## jak

A friend of mine has a Lagotto! One of the sweetest dogs ever! But she sure does like to keep her nose to the ground lol..

She is just over year old now, and they said she has been the easiest dog they've ever had, just so calm and sweet.

This is her here:










They don't shed, but still need grooming, but far less than any poodle!


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## whitepoodles

She is just over year old now, and they said she has been the easiest dog they've ever had, just so calm and sweet.


They look scruffy, LOL. but cute.
The barbet is becoming a feature at some shows here in Cda. 
We do not have the lagotto yet here maybe one day ...


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## whitepoodles

Jak:
Off topic.... how far is N.Zealand from Australia?


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## jak

about 2 hrs or so flight


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## whitepoodles

Jak:
Since you know poodles in both N. Zealand and Australia..here are some questions I hope you dont mind answering for me:

What TYPE do the Australian like to show..and what type poodle do the Australian judges put up. Do they prefer the larger poodle or a smaller one.
Is color a preference in Australia and do judges prefer blacks to whites, vice versa and/or other colors.
Are there many owner handlers there or is it dominated by handlers like it is here.
Who are the major kennels in Australia which have top dogs and show them year round?
What kind of genetic testing is done in N.Zealand and Australia?
What about regulations re: docked or undocked tails, dewclaws. What are your rules about these procedures? Can a show dog be shown in Australia docked or do they have to be undocked ?
What about quaranteen? What are the regulations, gov't. laws??
Thanks Jak , appreciate your help.
Ora


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## Daysleeper

@whitepoodles - Oh, I'm not concerned about whether there _are_ great poodles in rescues nearby me; I regularly browse through them on craigslist! Lovely dogs, and I've known many sweet, amazing rescues. What worries me is the rescues' policies and regulations. The biggest one locally requires its adoptors to have a fenced in yard - no exceptions - for anything bigger than a toy, unless the dog is very old or special needs. Unless something big changes in the next couple years, I will be living in an apartment, and I can't assume I'll have any sort of yard attached, fenced or otherwise. I will absolutely apply for adoption first, if there's a dog available that will fit our lifestyle, I'm just not very confident about our chances for fitting into their requirements. Maybe I'm worrying over nothing, and maybe I'll be lucky enough to find a poodle at the local shelters, but at this point I'm not holding my breath.

@Jak - How adorable! Yeah, they're big sniffers and diggers. If/when I ever get one, I really want to do nosework. My favorite colors are the browns and roans, but I've seen lots of gorgeous white/oranges too!


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## Daysleeper

BTW, Swift Water says she has a 3 year health guarantee for genetic problems! :thumb: The dogs she has now are her foundation, by the way, so it's a fairly new breeding program. Which is wonderful! I love seeing reputable color breeders in spoos. We need more!


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## Spencer

jak said:


> A friend of mine has a Lagotto! One of the sweetest dogs ever! But she sure does like to keep her nose to the ground lol..
> 
> She is just over year old now, and they said she has been the easiest dog they've ever had, just so calm and sweet.
> 
> This is her here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't shed, but still need grooming, but far less than any poodle!


Off topic, but... she/the breed reminds me of Falcor!


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## jak

whitepoodles said:


> Jak:
> Since you know poodles in both N. Zealand and Australia..here are some questions I hope you dont mind answering for me:
> 
> What TYPE do the Australian like to show..and what type poodle do the Australian judges put up. Do they prefer the larger poodle or a smaller one.
> Is color a preference in Australia and do judges prefer blacks to whites, vice versa and/or other colors.
> Are there many owner handlers there or is it dominated by handlers like it is here.
> Who are the major kennels in Australia which have top dogs and show them year round?
> What kind of genetic testing is done in N.Zealand and Australia?
> What about regulations re: docked or undocked tails, dewclaws. What are your rules about these procedures? Can a show dog be shown in Australia docked or do they have to be undocked ?
> What about quaranteen? What are the regulations, gov't. laws??
> Thanks Jak , appreciate your help.
> Ora


Sorry, I don't really know that much about what Australians prefer in terms of poodles! I've only ever been there once, and that was 10 years ago. The best person to ask would be John or Yvonne from Kateisha, or someone like Garry Dryburgh, who is an All Breeds Judge in Australia, and has standard poodles too  Although, John and Yvonne are colour purists LOL haha 

Some big kennels in Australia that I know do well are:

Voila, Picardy, Remkyn, Cotian, Artizan (Fairly new) and those are the ones just of the top of my mind. There are a lot of handlers, but I do see people handle their own dogs, and I do not think it is anywhere near the degree of politics with handlers over there. As for genetic testing, I don't really know what each individual breeder does, as I don't contact them about it lol..

But hips is done by most,
NE, vWD, SA seem to be mostly done too, and eyes checked too

But this may not be done by all, you would have to ask the specific breeder.

Dewclaws are allowed to be done, but it is becoming less popular.. but with poodles it is still done.

As for tails, you can show a docked tail, but docking tails is completely illegal.
You are only allowed to Dock for veterinary reasons, and then you must produce a vet certificate at all shows to prove so.

In New Zealand, you can still dock and remove dew claws, but it is becoming a practise that is less and less approved of, only because of negative light from the media... the show world is still fine.

As for Croppping Ears, it is completely illegal, you can import a cropped dog, but not show it, only breed from and register it.

As for Quarantine, it largely depends on the country... lol, I have just tried to find the rules about it for Australia.. but as with every Government Agency.. they make everything so damn hard to find!! LOL

Lol, but between countries like NZ, Sweden etc. there is no quarantine, hence why a lot of dogs go between these three countries. 

Also, take a look here:

Standard Poodle - Breeders - Puppies - Australia


This website, has a lot of Australian (and some NZ) show dogs, and is an online point score for stuff.

There are a whole lot of profiles, and breeder directories for all breeds, but the link goes to Standard Poodles


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## whitepoodles

Jak:
You are a DEAR.. Thanks so much for all this info. It helps alot.


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## whitepoodles

Jak:
What about the Marechal standards? Arent they in Australia also?


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## Dogsinstyle

Standard Poodles. Gorgeous Standard Poodle puppies for sale
Jacqui is expecting a litter in 2 weeks. 
Carole


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## whitepoodles

Marechal, Picardy, Kateisha take my breath away.. LOL I am partial maybe b/c I have a Kateisha X Unique bred bitch who is in whelp to Cole 
But overall, there are others in Australia who breed great standards who have beauty and merit.
I personally work strictly with pedigrees, more so than what the dog looks like and have always done that in my breeding program. A stunning dog does not necessarily produce him/herself however if that bitch/stud dog has an illustrious pedigree with many noted BIS winners and successful conformation dogs, than thier progeny stands an excellent chance to either be better than the sire/dam or of no less quality than they are. This is said strictly from personal experience in my breeding program. I have always had luck working with pedigrees rather than what the dog looks like. But again that is a matter of preference and choice and we are all different.


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## jak

whitepoodles said:


> Jak:
> What about the Marechal standards? Arent they in Australia also?


I don't really know too much about these dogs, it's hard because there isn't really a website to track them down!

Here are four profiles of their dogs

Marechal Herrera also click here
Aust Ch Marechal My Main Man
Ch Marechal One For All
Aust Ch Marechal Varekai
Aust,Am,Can Ch Violet Sky Over Marechal (Imp USA)

You'd have to contact those people to find out more.



Dogsinstyle said:


> Standard Poodles. Gorgeous Standard Poodle puppies for sale
> Jacqui is expecting a litter in 2 weeks.
> Carole


Yes, she is, but they are parti lines, and I didn't think Ora would be interested, but take a look at some of her dogs Ora, she imported a Kateisha bitch too


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## whitepoodles

You'd have to contact those people to find out more.

I am in contact with them . They sent me a wonderful reference letter regarding a show home in Australia who wants to import a puppy from my summer 2011 breeding to Cole. I trust their opinion and love their dogs.
Marechal, Kateisha and Picardy are the lines in Australia I am familiar with.

Yes, she is, but they are parti lines, and I didn't think Ora would be interested, but take a look at some of her dogs Ora, she imported a Kateisha bitch too [/QUOTE]

Withou a doubt Jacki has nice dogs, I am just not too familiar with her pedigrees and the dogs in her line.... so in all fairness I could not comment.
There is nothing wrong in breeding parti poodles, as long as the breeding is ethically done with all testing in place and clear. I dont breed partis but this is my choice. Some partis are beautiful and if well bred are stunning.
had it not been taboo I would own one.. LOLOL 

Jak are you about to faint ?


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## jak

Lol haha! No, there are some partis that I LOVE, but with the current drama... I would not own one either. I was just taking it from a breeding view, that I didn't think you would be interested because of the partis! lol lol, sorry my mistake


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## whitepoodles

jak said:


> Lol haha! No, there are some partis that I LOVE, but with the current drama... I would not own one either. I was just taking it from a breeding view, that I didn't think you would be interested because of the partis! lol lol, sorry my mistake


Jak you are right.... I am not interested in breeding partis, but I am not against other breeders breeding them. As I said it is a matter of choice. We all feel comfortable with our choices.
As a matter of fact Kay Palade owns one and I believe but dont quote me that Kaz Hosaka (a top U.S. Handler ) also owns one ( a pet).
It would be interesting to see if they will ever be accepted in the breed standard I am willing to bet that many breeders will embark on breeding quality ones if that was the case. 
There was a dog who won BOB at PCA Nationals who is out of a parti sire/dam. He was a silver and a stunning one. I really like the black/white markings like Harlequin Danes.. so nice.


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## tintlet

whitepoodles said:


> Jak you are right.... I am not interested in breeding partis, but I am not against other breeders breeding them. As I said it is a matter of choice. We all feel comfortable with our choices.
> As a matter of fact Kay Palade owns one and I believe but dont quote me that Kaz Hosaka (a top U.S. Handler ) also owns one ( a pet).
> It would be interesting to see if they will ever be accepted in the breed standard I am willing to bet that many breeders will embark on breeding quality ones if that was the case.
> There was a dog who won BOB at PCA Nationals who is out of a parti sire/dam. He was a silver and a stunning one. I really like the black/white markings like Harlequin Danes.. so nice.


yes, Kaz has a silver/white parti, and Kay also. I'm sure many would own partis if the were not a conformation DQ. I so think its funny that people will own( and breed) an oversize Sheltie, and that is perfectly acceptable.

I doubt multicolor poodles will ever get AKC Championship status.


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## tintlet

I Like Bonnie and think she is doing her breeding program the right way.


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## jak

Silver and White Partis are my favourite. There is just something about them 

Hey, at least you guys in the states can register them! Over here in NZ, a woman imported a Parti Bitch. She competes in Agility, and Obedience, and Lure Racing or something..
She had her registered (as she was AKC registered), and had a litter from her, to an NZ CH.
Someone from one of the poodle clubs complained, and had the bitch, (and the puppies) registration removed, claiming that they weren't purebred poodles, as they were not solid colour to the skin... :wacko: ... since when did a "fault" determine whether they could be registered or not ?? if so, then I'd say every dog would have to be de-registered!!!


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## SnorPuddel

Barbets are super cute, my friend Anne and I ran into one in Montreal one day, at first we thought it was a poodle in a teddy bear clip when it came running towards our group of 11 poodles 

There is a breeder in California, she does health testing and is very upfront and honest about everything. I have several friends whom have poodles from her and I have both met and seen her poodles. Her website is Highfalutin and she has phantom puppies now and will be breeding them in the future. She has a lot of knowledge in the gene pool of partis and phantoms, and they do not have a deep gene pool, even if you don't get a poodle from her, she will be very helpful in your selection


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## Harley_chik

whitepoodles said:


> There was a dog who won BOB at PCA Nationals who is out of a parti sire/dam. He was a silver and a stunning one. I really like the black/white markings like Harlequin Danes.. so nice.


I believe you are thinking of CH JC Pioneer Kaiser. I think he is beautiful too. (His dam is a Parti) A lady near me has a beautiful bitch sired by Kaiser. If the right dog came along, from the right breeder, I would get a Parti in a heartbeat. 

Kaiser's page:
Kaiser


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## whitepoodles

Harley_chik said:


> I believe you are thinking of CH JC Pioneer Kaiser. I think he is beautiful too. (His dam is a Parti) A lady near me has a beautiful bitch sired by Kaiser. If the right dog came along, from the right breeder, I would get a Parti in a heartbeat. Kaiser's page:
> Kaiser


I was just discussing the same thing this eve with a breeder from the U.S. who is at my house to breed her bitch to my boy Cole.. She said she loves partis and if the breed standard ever allows them to compete, she too would have one in a heart beat. I love the blacks/whites, this is an awsome color combination. Some of them are soooo lovely. Sigh.. but will they ever be allowed in the ring ? that remains to be seen


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## kirada1

whitepoodles said:


> She said she loves partis and if the breed standard ever allows them to compete, she too would have one in a heart beat.


I am just a little amazed - if half of you really love a parti poodle, why don't you all take the plunge and go get one and stand up for your likes and walk around the dog show - this parti hush hush I just don't get.

I am very proud of my 2 Specialty Best In Show winning white standards who are from Presley, a KaiserxMia son. The 3 which were kept for showing are and or were multiple All Breeds Best In Show or Runner Up Best In Show winners.

... and I just love my new silver girl who is a daughter from a cream parti factored mother,. So pretty, solid, thick coat, runs true out and back, attitude and carriage. 

If these dogs come from parti lines, hey I am all for it. Quality first then colour.

This is JMO and in no way wanting to start an argument.

Rochelle, the white Standard photo, was taken just on the week end where she went Best In Show
Cashmere's photo was taken 5 weeks ago and she has matured even more.


Jacqui McLeay
Kirada Standard Poodles


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## jak

I know I will definitely have a parti one day ! ... Silver and White... 
I can't have another spoo atm anyway, but the 'mood' towards partis is slowly changing. 

What is the current status with them in Australia ? Can they be registered ?

ohh... and I just love Cashmere  .. when are you going to update with some pics???


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

Jacqui....so happy to see you here! I always think your Poos are gorgeous, and the white....YUMMY!!!


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## whitepoodles

kirada1 said:


> I am just a little amazed - if half of you really love a parti poodle, why don't you all take the plunge and go get one and stand up for your likes and walk around the dog show - this parti hush hush I just don't get.
> 
> Jaqui:
> 
> First of welcome here. This gives me the opportunity to say how much I like your dogs. They are beautiful, partis and solids alike .
> 
> As I said in my post.. "it is a matter of choice" which has NOTHING whatsoever to do with agreeing with or against partis.
> 
> Personally I am neutral, and inspite of my choice not to go into the breeding partis , I am not against anyone breeding them and do in fact admire a well bred beautiful parti (especially the black/wht markings).
> 
> I would not have minded at all breeding partis, had the CKC/AKC revamped the breed standard and allowed them in the ring. Since I breed to keep and show a puppy from each litter I produce (and I breed 1 maybe 2 litters per year at most), I am limited in the number of dogs I can keep in my house, as such I can only breed dogs that I can eventually show and finish.
> 
> Since Partis can not (as of yet) be shown in conformation, I must resort to breeding only solid colors.
> 
> I DO like Partis alot, and if I was able to breed them and go on with them in my breeding program I would of in a heartbeat, but I can not do this when I live in a residential area which limits dog numbers per household .
> 
> Many breeders can run on puppies and keep more than 2-3 in a litter since they live in rural areas with no dog number restrictions and are able to register a kennel. But breeders like myself who live in the city with a 10,000 sq. ft. home space can not afford to do both breed Partis and solids.
> 
> So since Partis are not allowed (yet) in conformation and due to my limited space and number of dogs allowed , I cant in all honesty breed solids and partis, but that does not mean I dont have respect for breeders who do and in fact I do like well bred partis alot. Tintlet is a very conscientious and ethical breeder who produces beautiful partis, .. I have respect for you both.
> 
> This is what I meant by saying "it is a matter of choice" and this choice is strictly based on the aforementioned reasons and not at all on whether it is right or wrong to breed partis.
> 
> I just had to respond to clear matters since you quoted me in your initial post.


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## whitepoodles

whitepoodles;110377 said:


> I was just discussing the same thing this eve with a breeder from the U.S. who is at my house to breed her bitch to my boy Cole.. She said she loves partis and if the breed standard ever allows them to compete, she too would have one in a heart beat. I love the blacks/whites, this is an awsome color combination. Some of them are soooo lovely. Sigh.. but will they ever be allowed in the ring ? that remains to be seen



Jaqui:

This was one of my posts in regards to breeding partis. I do love them and it is a shame that they are not accepted in conformation, Maybe one day, hopefully.


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## kirada1

jak said:


> What is the current status with them in Australia ? Can they be registered ?
> 
> ohh... and I just love Cashmere  .. when are you going to update with some pics???



Jak, We can register the true colour of the dog on limited registration only. It's a start  You know me, always doing the opposite to the norm - why oh why am I artistic - lol
Cashmere's next show is next week end. Tia is due today so shows are canceled for me.


WHITEROCK - having a hard time putting more than one quotes into a post.

Thank you for the ww - I forgot I was a member and only noticed when some hits to my site was coming from this thread.

I just made a blank statement from your quote - it wasn't to you, it was a reply to your words
_She said she loves partis and if the breed standard ever allows them to compete, she too would have one in a heart beat._

Gloria is a lovely knowledgeable person - I have rung her up on a few occasions.

ARREAU - thank you


Jacqui McLeay
Kirada Standard Poodles


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## Beach girl

> Whitepoodles,


 what do you do with the puppies you keep after they have finished their championships? Do you always keep them to breed or do you sometimes sell them or what? 

Seems like a breeder would have a lot of poodles pretty quickly, even with just keeping 1, maybe 2, a year. I always wondered how breeders do it, keeping their numbers reasonable and still bringing along new puppies as needed.


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## whitepoodles

[
WHITEROCK - having a hard time putting more than one quotes into a post.
Jaqui: LOL , whitePOODLES not white rock.. 
I am glad you didnt take my post any other way but as an observation comment. I re iterate I love the partis and I feel well TOO BAD that they are not allowed to compete. There are several partis that I have seen on some websites who take my breath away and on several occasions much nicer in conformation and balance than some solids I know.. 
I really hope that both CKC and AKC will one day take into consideration allowing the partis to compete even if it is a class of their own. They dont necessarily have to compete with the solids, they can allow a parti class but still at a CKC/AKC sanctioned conformation show

Maybe/hopefully one day.

Love your dogs and you are doing an awsome job with them as a breeder/handler.. also like the websites you errect for other breeders.

I just made a blank statement from your quote - it wasn't to you, it was a reply to your words
_She said she loves partis and if the breed standard ever allows them to compete, she too would have one in a heart beat._

Gloria is a lovely knowledgeable person - I have rung her up on a few occasions.

ARREAU - thank you


Jacqui McLeay
Kirada Standard Poodles[/QUOTE]


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## whitepoodles

Beach girl;114148 said:


> what do you do with the puppies you keep after they have finished their championships? Do you always keep them to breed or do you sometimes sell them or what?
> 
> Seems like a breeder would have a lot of poodles pretty quickly, even with just keeping 1, maybe 2, a year. I always wondered how breeders do it, keeping their numbers reasonable and still bringing along new puppies as needed.


BeachGirl:

I am blessed to have been able to establish great rapport with my puppy clients, and forged many friendships during the past 15 years since I have started breeding stand. poodles.

I have numerous repeat clients who come to aquire their second poodle from me and at times I would place a finished Champion bitch in one of these client's homes. They must be local, not further than 1-2 hours drive from my home and they must be trustworty, responsible and honest. 

Since I can not keep more than 4 dogs in my home given my area is residential and not kennel zoned, I keep my pick puppy and send it to the handler at 7 mos. old to finish thier titles. All my dogs finish their ch. as puppies and then I place them in responsible homes . These clients are ones with whom I have long standing friendships since I sold them thier first pup.

When I place my finished champions (usually around the 11 mos. age) in the aforementioned homes they are not sold to the client, but placed free of charge with the understanding that once the female is over 2 years of age and cleared genetic testing, I am to take 2 (maybe 3) litters from the female, following which the client's only obligation to me is to pay for the female's spaying , provide me with proof of ovariohysterectomy surgical procedure and then I will release the CKC regist. papers and transfer the female to their ownership.

This has worked wonderfully for me for the past 15 years and I have finished close to 30 champions whom all but 4 have been placed in responsible homes .


During the 2-3 years that the female is used for breeding, I pay her vet bills and the costs for all her genetic testing prior to breeding. The client's responsibility is to provide her with a loving home , food and grooming needs.

I dont place intact males. I feel that as a pet owner it would not be fair to have them live with an intact male. Most of these clients take their dogs to dog parks and frequent areas where there are numerous dogs. I dont feel that a pet owner will be able to handle a stud dog as such I prefer to keep the males in my home. I rarely keep males to show, but have done so lately and kept both my puppy Onyx (now 9 mos. old) and ofcourse "Cole" who is over 4 years old and both him and Onyx will reside with us until the end of their natural life.

So this is how I keep my numbers down. I dont believe it is fair to any dog to be part of a large doggy household and since I like my house spotless , and organized as well as keeping my dogs immaculately clean and well groomed at my age I dont feel that I can do much more than I do now with 4 dogs in my house. I let the others I breed and champion to enjoy a one on one relationship with thier adoptive owners and have the chance to see them all the time if I wish and keep tabs on my placed babies.

And... now I have just finished measuring Lola's temperature and it is starting to go down, so the birth of her and Cole's pups is imminent.
I am excited and will post photos once they are on the ground.
Lola is big as a house and I put my hands on her tummy this eve and felt the little tykes moving like crazy.


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## Beach girl

*Whitepoodles*, thanks very much for the explanation. I wondered how people could do it these days, without a huge country house and kennels. I like your plan; people get a nice quality dog with the preliminary training and housebreaking and that ever-so-fun teething stage handled by someone else, and you get to keep turning out champion dogs.

Thanks for your time in writing that out. It's very interesting seeing that side of the business and how it's run.


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## wishpoo

How about this in Australia :rockon:

I find this dog fascinating, to say the least


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## jak

don't you mean this dog ?










lol, her offspring have been doing well around the world.

Two IR CH, one AUST GR CH, nearly 1 AM CH (Kim Russell handles her), and nearly a NZ CH over here...

She had a litter 9 months ago... her puppy went Res Bitch at Brisbane Royal, whilst her AUST GR CH son went RUBIS!

There is a 9 month puppy here in NZ, from an Alias Just Give Me That Wink son, he is also an AUST GR CH 111 all breed BIS
Hopefully I will see this puppy at the National Dog Show this year!


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## wishpoo

OMG LOL LOL !!!!!!! 

Well, well... I can only say Wishpoo knows her "spoos" LMAO 

Maybe I do not have a "breeding stock" LOL, but I certainly know a good one when I see it :happy::idea::marchmellow:

He he, and you are ,my friend, a *Spoo Encyclopedia* : ))))))))) !!!!!!!!!


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