# Skye Updates



## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Oh I’m so sorry to hear this. You have been through so much heartbreak.


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

You also need to do what's right for you. Sometimes these decisions have to be made. I'm very sorry you're going thru this.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Deep breaths. I'm so sorry. You've been through it all these last few years.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Hugs. I think it's very easy for good people to beat themselves up over hard decisions. Not every problem can be cured by love. Destroying the mental and financial health of your family won't cure Skye, nor will it even guarantee him a soft berth when his health continues to deteriorate.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Sometimes the heartbreaking decision is the right one. You have done everything possible for both dogs over the last few years; Skye will be safe and cared for with his breeder and you and your family will get a much needed break from the unremitting anxiety and stress of coping with incurable illness. Do stay in touch, and let us know how you are doing.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

cowpony said:


> Hugs. I think it's very easy for good people to beat themselves up over hard decisions. Not every problem can be cured by love. Destroying the mental and financial health of your family won't cure Skye, nor will it even guarantee him a soft berth when his health continues to deteriorate.


Thank you x


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

fjm said:


> Sometimes the heartbreaking decision is the right one. You have done everything possible for both dogs over the last few years; Skye will be safe and cared for with his breeder and you and your family will get a much needed break from the unremitting anxiety and stress of coping with incurable illness. Do stay in touch, and let us know how you are doing.


Thank you. I honestly wish that I wasn't returning him to the breeder because I'm not convinced that she has his best interests at heart. She offered to pay for him to be put to sleep and when I said that I didn't think he needed to be put to sleep, she said that we don't know what the future holds. There is a clause in his contract saying he must be returned to her if I need to rehome him x


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Oh Sole, we all know how hard you've tried and how much work you have put in with Cooper and now Skye. Skye is better off today because of you. You've dealt with his health issues, done so much work on his jittery nerves and given him so much joy. Bless you for that and now it's time to take good care of you and your family. You've not been one to bail out easily. This decision has taken it's time to emerge and in the mean time, you continued to give Skye the best, you are truly remarkable. Hopefully the breeder will do right by Skye. Praying for you all


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

I'm so sorry, just sending you tons of love and keeping you and Skye in my prayers 🙏💔


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

I'm so sorry. You and your family have had so much heartbreak the past few years. You and Skye are in my thoughts.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm so sad for you all. Your decision is difficult and understandable. I hope that the breeder will do right by little Skye.
Your strength, commitment and love aren't less for understanding that he needs more.
You all deserve the best.
Keeping you all close.


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## beowoof (Dec 6, 2021)

sending gentle hugs for you and your family. this is a brave decision and your experience will hopefully help others who are in a similar circumstance. thank you for sharing Cooper and Skye's stories with us here.


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## Getting ready (May 4, 2019)

I’m so sorry. I am heartbroken for you.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

Please know that we would have been forced to make the same decision. You've tried so hard. Feel better soon. 

Remember, you'll always have a welcome here.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

I am sad for you, and equally support your choice. What a hard time your family has had these recent years. Sending love ❤ from us.


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## Haitch (6 mo ago)

So sad , went back and looked at your posts and videos , you have done a great job with him , walking beautifully , sitting at the kerb , being left alone etc
Ref diet , it can make a huge difference to tummy issues , adding a probiotic etc , it does with people , let alone dogs . There are a lot of children out there with these adhd type problems , change the diet , change the child , not that this matters to yourself
As for the breeder …no comment, unless you signed a contract that he has to be returned , no family member or friend want him ? He might be totally different in a two dog household .

Ah just re-read , epilepsy and brain issues …so sad 


Dont beat yourself up over any of this , hugs


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Thank you for all of the lovely replies. I had Skye at the out of hours vet last night. He hasn't been right since Wednesday, very quiet and not his usual self and tonight I got quite worried about him. I had a lengthy discussion with the vet. She is trying really hard to encourage me to keep him. She thinks he does have an element of brain damage and she thinks his eyes are being affected. His right pupil is huge and the left one is small. He doesn't see things clearly enough. She believes he is having silent seizures which is causing him to be anxious. She also wonders if his medication is not being absorbed properly because of the issues with his tummy, possible it's leaving his system quicker than it's supposed to. She has given me suggestions on ways to reduce his vet bills and suggested he gets vitamin B injections for his tummy. It's a lot to think about and process. She said that he isn't at a stage where they would agree to him being put to sleep. If I return him to his breeder, that's what she plans to do and I'm sure she will know the right things to say in order for that to happen. The vet said that I do have the option to rehome him elsewhere if his breeder plans on putting him to sleep. I said that if he was at a stage of needing that, then I should be the person that's there with him but the vet said it's too soon. I don't know what to do. How can I send him back knowing that's what is going to happen? Any advice would be greatly appreciated x


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## Nana06 (Oct 18, 2021)

Hi Sole. If you need me to look at parts of the contract to understand how to get out of it - let me know. If you receive medical advice (preferably in writing) from the vet stating that refusing to give him back to the breeder is for his own good and that you are preventing him to be further harmed by giving him to an organisation (I know Dogs Trust do wonders for disabled dogs) then I think this could be an option to get out of having to pay any remedy for breach of contract.Generally speaking, the goal of contract law is to ensure that anyone who is wronged is left in the same economic position they would have been in had no breach occurred. Here, the breeder would struggle to demonstrate to a court that, by not being given the dog back, she has suffers any losses as she has stated she wants to have him put to sleep (which has a cost!). She would also struggle to demonstrate that she suffered "injury to her feelings" because again - she intends to put him to sleep. Get written evidence that she wants to put him to sleep. The only action she might have is to bring up evidence that you are harming him by keeping him alive - but that's why you would need medical evidence to the contrary.


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## Nana06 (Oct 18, 2021)

Sorry if this was overly legalistic - the gist of it is - I think (1) you are likely to be able to breach the contract and (2) I would call up organisations (many have helplines / they will be open tomorrow) that might have the means to help him / ask for advice as to his health and the type of life he might be able to lead in the future.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Nana06 said:


> Sorry if this was overly legalistic - the gist of it is - I think (1) you are likely to be able to breach the contract and (2) I would call up organisations (many have helplines / they will be open tomorrow) that might have the means to help him / ask for advice as to his health and the type of life he might be able to lead in the future.


Thank you for your advice. The contract was pretty much just a piece of paper saying that as a responsible breeder, she would take him back if I was unable to keep him because she didn't want her dogs going to just anyone. The vet said last night that she didn't think the contract would be an issue for the same reasons that you have stated. I think your suggestion about the Dogs Trust is a great idea and I will give them a call first thing in the morning. It's such a difficult situation and I'm shocked that her first suggestion was to give me money to put him to sleep. If he is too much hassle for her then I would rather go down the route of a rehoming centre. I just don't know what impact that will have on him if he is stuck in a kennel. It's just a shame x


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Wonderful to hear that there may be a solution that satisfies everyone and gives Skye the opportunity to live the best life he can, @Nana06 . 

@Sole0102 , what wonderful support you're receiving from your vet and from your many friends here at PF. I am on tenterhooks hoping that everyone is willing to come to the best solution for dear Skye.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Oh Sole, you are by far the most responsible owner I have encountered. If you have the energy to reach out to @Nana06 and let her help rehome Skye that would probably be good. Especially since your trusted vet says it's too soon to put him down.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Sole0102 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Myself and my family have came to the very tough decision to return Skye to his breeder. We have been trying so hard to make things work over the past 8 months but unfortunately, it just isn't working out. The reason for this is his health issues. You all know that he has epilepsy, on top of this, he has issues with his tummy which is causing diarrhoea with mucus and blood in it. On average, we have been spending a minimum of £400 per month at the vet and it is crippling us but the emotional impact is far greater than that. He has been to the vet 3 days in a row just this week. The vet thinks he could be intolerant to poultry or beef and want him to go onto either a hypoallergenic or hydrolyzed dog food. He suffers from quite a bit of anxiety, they thought for a while that he had stress colitis. The vet is also saying that they believe there is an element of brain damage going on too. We went through so much with Cooper that I can't emotionally go through this again. I have contacted his breeder and he will be returned to her next Saturday. I'm absolutely heartbroken, I love him so much and it kills me to let him go but I need to do what is right for him x


I fully understand. You have tried and gone beyond what most families would do. Sometimes in life we must make difficult decisions. I support you in yours.


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## Haitch (6 mo ago)

I agree with you , if he is going to be put down , it wouldn’t be the breeder doing it , it would be the people whom he loves and trusts .
The breeder …she doesn’t want him and would hardly be able to rehome him either . Sadly I was told by a lady who rehomes dogs , not mine btw , that she personally knows of breeders who take back dogs , put them to sleep as they are only interested in selling puppies . Not all are like that , but some .
I shall be researching canine epilepsy , so many human diseases can be either cured , or really reduced just with herbs or natural supplements , but finding a holistic type vet is never easy , off to see what I can find ,there was a lady on here recently who has blind dogs and trains them , it’s do-able . The other option is help with vets bills via pdsa ?
God bless you









Dog Seizures: Natural Options That Work - Dogs Naturally


Dog seizures are scary. But you can manage them with safe, effective natural remedies that help you avoid potentially risky drugs.




www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com










Natural Treatment for Epilepsy in Dogs


VetInfo: Your Trusted Resource for Veterinary Information



www.vetinfo.com














5 Holistic Treatments for Epilepsy in Dogs


Learn about holistic treatments that will reduce your dog’s seizures while avoiding the use of harsh medications.




www.thewildest.com






there is more but that’s a start , your vet may not be keen on herbs etc , it’s just the way they are trained , I use supplements and years ago have dropped previous medications


this is the site of one holistic vet , I don’t know where you live , but this is normal philosophy , treat the whole dog , you are what you eat , but at the end of the day , it’s totally your decision 









Holistic Care


The Natural Vet is a holistic vet in Glasgow, Scotland offering conventional and complementary vet care, herbal vet medicine, acupuncture, raw food, dog day care.




www.thenaturalvet.co.uk


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## a2girl (Oct 4, 2020)

I am so sorry. You have done so much for Skye and given him all the love and care he deserves. It is a very hard situation with no easy decisions. I support you in whatever you decide as it is clear that you have Skye's best interests at heart. Hugs from me and Hugo.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Bless you.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Skye’s breeder didn’t socialize him properly, didn’t nourish him properly....and now she plans to euthanize him?? My goodness.  Just devastating in every way.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this, and I’m so sorry Skye is going through this, too. 

Since your vet does not feel euthanasia is warranted at this time, I would be consulting with rescue groups who might be able to match Skye to an appropriate home.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Skye’s breeder didn’t socialize him properly, didn’t nourish him properly....and now she plans to euthanize him?? My goodness.  Just devastating in every way.
> 
> I’m so sorry you’re going through this, and I’m so sorry Skye is going through this, too.
> 
> Since your vet does not feel euthanasia is warranted at this time, I would be consulting with rescue groups who might be able to match Skye to an appropriate home.


I have just received an email from his breeder offering to give me back the money that I paid her for him and says that will end our contract and I'm free to do what I want with him. I have been in contact with a couple of rescue places today. One of them is full and can't accommodate him and the other says he wouldn't cope in a kennel situation because of his health issues. I'm hoping to find out some other options tomorrow x


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

I'm glad you've been relieved of the terms in the contract and getting your money back. Not that it solves all the issues, but it relieves some of your expenses.
Does your vet have any contacts with specialty rescues?
Can the local poodle club refer you to a poodle rescue?

Dogs With Special Needs – Dogs for Adoption – dogsblog.com
Special needs dogs | SOS Animals UK
SNARR Northeast

Here in Denmark, it's not uncommon that's the vets have a network and for vets themselves to adopt a dog / cat in need of special care. They have the know-how. Our vet for example, is part of an organisation that spays and neuter streetdogs and spent her last holiday in Bangkok doing just that.

I think we have a new member from the UK who has an organisation for blind and other special needs dogs.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

I found the post 100% poodle brain

Maybe this new member can assist with the right contacts. Home | Blind Dogs: Enabled


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

I am just so very sorry you are all having to go through this.😔 You have gone through so much.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

This is a lot, and I am so sorry you are having this heart wrenching scenario with Skye. Buck’s human grade epilepsy medication tab might cripple someone on a budget or without pet insurance. Of course the breeder doesn’t want him back and I am very glad she released you from her contract. Frankly, it’s going to take a very special rehome, that can afford the health costs. Giant hugs from Houston, because this situation is so sad.


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## PowersPup (Aug 28, 2020)

I am so sad for you. Between Cooper and Skye, you and your family have been faced with so much trauma, grief and impossible decisions. Your compassion is so admirable. My heart goes out to you.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Hi everyone, 

I would like to thank you for all of the lovely comments on my last post. You guys are so kind, helpful and understanding. I love this forum ❤.

After being at the out of hours vet on Saturday night, my own vet called this morning and asked me to go in for an extended consultation this afternoon. We ran bloods to check liver and kidney function because of Skye's epilepsy meds. All of his bloods came back perfect. After a lengthy discussion, the vet is now treating Skye for inflammation of the brain. We are starting with steroids and if they don't help, the next step will be Gabapentin or similar. There has been an all round change in Skye since Wednesday and I thought it was possibly silent seizures. The pupils in his eyes are uneven, he is either lethargic or the extreme opposite, he has been scratching a lot but only when he is moving not when he is asleep or lying down, hasn't wanted to go on walks, isn't eating much and not interacting with us as normal. His skin has been checked thoroughly and there is absolutely nothing wrong with his skin. I'm hoping that the medication does something to help him. I'm exhausted 😂😂 x


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## PowersPup (Aug 28, 2020)

I think I love your vet! I hope the meds treat the brain inflammation. It sounds like he has some discomfort that could stem. from the brain issues. Might reducing inflammatio also help reduce seizures?


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

I am so glad you did that and have hope this can get calmed down 🙏. Gentle virtual hugs to you.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

We love you too! Your trusted vet is a godsend. I hope the vet finds a solution. I wish you could dump some of your exhaustion on me and I in turn could relieve you of some of the burden. Take care 🤗


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

More hugs. You and your vet are really stepping up.


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## beowoof (Dec 6, 2021)

sending a big squeeze from across the pond. Skye is in great hands with you and your vet, thank you for continuing to share updates about his treatment. we are here for you and Skye.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

💜💜💜


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

You try and try again, long past when many (myself included) would have thrown in the towel. What lucky dogs to have found you.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Starla said:


> You try and try again, long past when many (myself included) would have thrown in the towel. What lucky dogs to have found you.


I think I'm a glutton for punishment 😂😂. I was in hospital 2 weeks ago, I have pleurisy and an infection in my left lung and I am still taking antibiotics and steroids. My sister has been unwell for the last week, she ended up in hospital last night after coughing up blood and she has pneumonia. So, if anyone out there is living a drama free life right now, we have plenty that we don't mind sharing with you 😂😂. We literally couldn't make any of this up. I'm just keeping everything crossed for a good outcome for Skye x


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

OMG Lynne, you just can't catch a break.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

Sole0102 said:


> I think I'm a glutton for punishment 😂😂. I was in hospital 2 weeks ago, I have pleurisy and an infection in my left lung and I am still taking antibiotics and steroids. My sister has been unwell for the last week, she ended up in hospital last night after coughing up blood and she has pneumonia. So, if anyone out there is living a drama free life right now, we have plenty that we don't mind sharing with you 😂😂. We literally couldn't make any of this up. I'm just keeping everything crossed for a good outcome for Skye x


PLEASE take care of you. It is not selfish to ask for someone to take care of you, either. You cannot draw from an empty well. I hope you have some folks to ask for assistance— errand running, food or meal prep or pick up, draw yourself a bath with Epsom salts and put your feet up. We really are meant to live in community— something many of us lost long ago, which means sometimes we don’t even recognize what we are missing and that it’s okay to ask for help.

(all of that said gently and non-patronizingly and with utmost sincerity).


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Praying for you and your whole family, Lynne. 🙏 These trials in life can really test us, can't they? I pray you will have the support you need at this time not only from your PF family, but from "real life" people as well 🤗


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

🤗 sending hugs to you and your sister. Pray tides turn. You most definitely need a break from hardships. Can you create a gofundme account. That way those who able, can chip in.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Keeping you in my thoughts.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Minie said:


> 🤗 sending hugs to you and your sister. Pray tides turn. You most definitely need a break from hardships. Can you create a gofundme account. That way those who able, can chip in.


I have had a number of people suggesting the same thing so I have set up a Just Giving page this morning. Please feel free to share and thank you for your kind message ❤ x









Help raise £700 to help towards Skye's vet investigations


Weʼre raising money to help towards Skye's vet investigations. Support this JustGiving Crowdfunding Page.




www.justgiving.com


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Thank you. Definitely supporting and sharing the link 🤗
You all deserve the best. Thank you 😊


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Minie said:


> Thank you. Definitely supporting and sharing the link 🤗
> You all deserve the best. Thank you 😊


Thank you so much for your support. We are so blessed to know such kind humans ❤ x


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## Rian (Sep 17, 2021)

You are the kindest, most patient, and loving person. I am so sorry for _everything_ you've been through.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

A huge thank you to everyone on this forum who has ever read my posts or given me advice. You guys have been amazing, so kind and thoughtful and not judgemental in the slightest. I feel so blessed to have your support and wisdom in my life ❤ x p.s please excuse his shaved legs in the picture


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

You're an important part of what makes the forum work. The thanks are mutual.

Diana


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

We thank you and love you are part of us ❤. The Poodle neighborhood is worldwide; we are family.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

We are poodle lovers united - and you are a part of us - thank YOU


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

The love of poodles brings us here, the camaraderie found keeps us here. 

"🎵Hands across the water (water)
Heads across the sky 🎶"


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## Apricot mini momma (Dec 22, 2020)

There are so many on this forum to be thankful for, including you 💛


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Thank you. Life would be so much more empty and difficult without each other. 🤗


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

It takes a village to do so many things, and this worldwide Poodle village is one of the best. I would like to once again thank the mods for that.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Thank you for you and your four legged friends for being here as well🌹. Just a big extended family here. 😘


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Thank you too! 😊 I agree with everyone else! We are here for each other and this forum is a great community. We need each other!


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

I'm adding my thanks! 



Rose n Poos said:


> The love of poodles brings us here, the camaraderie found keeps us here.


I agree!


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Hi everyone, 

You guys are probably sick of hearing from me so apologies in advance. We had another emergency vet trip today with Skye. He was sick twice this morning then walked around in circles and twisting his neck to one side before hiding in his crate shaking. We never use his crate and neither does he. I took him out for a walk last night and he was trying to dart out onto the road ( he never goes near the road) and I decided to just take him home. On the way home he went into every garden on our street as if he was looking for his home. 

The vet today said several things again. Firstly, they think his eyesight is bad but don't know how bad, questioned the possibility of him having meningitis ( twisted his neck in both directions like something from the exorcist, Skye resisted when they were trying to twist to the right but the vet continued trying and eventually succeeded) also mentioned that his symptoms are consistent with syringomyelia ( sorry if I have misspelled this). 

Recommendations are that he needs an MRI scan and a sample of spinal fluid tested. I need to speak to my own vet in the morning to discuss a referral for these. The emergency vet said we will not know what we are dealing with until these have been done. I am attaching a couple of videos and pictures in case anyone has seen something similar. First video was him this morning, 2nd one was after his walk last night. Picture is from this morning, kept twisting his head to the same side then stretching it forward in that direction. I'm at a loss and quite honestly fed up with nobody having an answer x


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579180477692674048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579194464769576960


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Unfortunately Skye can't say how he feels, and your own vet and the emergency vet only have so much knowledge.
The only way to test for meningitis is a spinal tap..
I can only say I understand,, my Beatrice was sick for 3 years, chronic kidney disease, cancer, gall bladder muecelode. I knew something wasn't right with her from the ti.e she was 3 years old on, she made it to 7 1/2 years old when her liver finally gave, she was tired.
It was a bewildering journey and it hurt, I felt cheated again because I lost my first poodle to a freak accident.

I know it is soul sucking journey so I am sending a virtual hug.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

I'm so sorry :'( I'm just going to say what's on my heart--if one of my dogs were this sick, I would not be able to let them go on. But again, I support you in whatever you do for Skye, as you are his mom. Sending you so much love.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

You have to do what you think is best for Skye and your family, but sometimes there are no good solutions. Sending warm loving thoughts...


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

I'm so sorry you're going through this again.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

MaizieFrosty said:


> I'm so sorry :'( I'm just going to say what's on my heart--if one of my dogs were this sick, I would not be able to let them go on. But again, I support you in whatever you do for Skye, as you are his mom. Sending you so much love.


I have had this conversation with 3 different vets including my own vet over the past week and all I keep being told is he isn't at that stage. However, the difficulty that I have is how does anyone know what stage he is at when we don't exactly know what is wrong with him. Every time he goes to the vet, I am told they think a different thing is wrong. The emergency vet last Saturday night and my own vet this Monday both said an MRI would be a waste of time and money. They said it wouldn't tell us anything we didn't already know which is that there is something neurological going on then today, I was told the complete opposite. It is heartbreaking to watch. He just paced around the rug in my living room for half an hour, the exact same path back and forward. Didn't touch the rug once, was getting faster with each lap to the stage he was panting and is now lying down asleep x


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

twyla said:


> Unfortunately Skye can't say how he feels, and your own vet and the emergency vet only have so much knowledge.
> The only way to test for meningitis is a spinal tap..
> I can only say I understand,, my Beatrice was sick for 3 years, chronic kidney disease, cancer, gall bladder muecelode. I knew something wasn't right with her from the ti.e she was 3 years old on, she made it to 7 1/2 years old when her liver finally gave, she was tired.
> It was a bewildering journey and it hurt, I felt cheated again because I lost my first poodle to a freak accident.
> ...


Thank you very much Twyla. I am sorry about Beatrice, I can only imagine how difficult and worrying that must have been for you x


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Sole0102, it is difficult to cope when you don't know what is going on, or how to help.

I opted to treat Beatrice's symptoms only and keep her comfortable.
I have no regrets for that choice I had no real answers but Beatrice lived her best life.

So hugs


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Encephalitis in dogs
I did find thus though for you


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Sole0102 said:


> I have had this conversation with 3 different vets including my own vet over the past week and all I keep being told is he isn't at that stage. However, the difficulty that I have is how does anyone know what stage he is at when we don't exactly know what is wrong with him. Every time he goes to the vet, I am told they think a different thing is wrong. The emergency vet last Saturday night and my own vet this Monday both said an MRI would be a waste of time and money. They said it wouldn't tell us anything we didn't already know which is that there is something neurological going on then today, I was told the complete opposite. It is heartbreaking to watch. He just paced around the rug in my living room for half an hour, the exact same path back and forward. Didn't touch the rug once, was getting faster with each lap to the stage he was panting and is now lying down asleep x


I don't see why the vets have that much of a say in the decision--he is your dog, and he has clearly been suffering. When I was ready to put my Maltese to sleep, I met with one vet who she thought it was premature, but she would do it. I met with another vet who fully supported my decision and said letting her go was the kindest thing and is what she would do in my shoes. I hope I'm not sounding harsh or insensitive. I just hate to see Skye and you and your family suffer. 💜


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

twyla said:


> Encephalitis in dogs
> I did find thus though for you


Thank you very much, I just watched the video and it is very interesting and informative x


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

MaizieFrosty said:


> I don't see why the vets have that much of a say in the decision--he is your dog, and he has clearly been suffering. When I was ready to put my Maltese to sleep, I met with one vet who she thought it was premature, but she would do it. I met with another vet who fully supported my decision and said letting her go was the kindest thing and is what she would do in my shoes. I hope I'm not sounding harsh or insensitive. I just hate to see Skye and you and your family suffer. 💜


I completely understand what you are saying and until the past 11 days, the thought of putting Skye to sleep wasn't even a thought in my head. The way he has been since then is a different matter which is why I have had those conversations and will be having the same conversation again tomorrow because he clearly is suffering in some way and it has only gotten worse not better x


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Sole0102 said:


> I completely understand what you are saying and until the past 11 days, the thought of putting Skye to sleep wasn't even a thought in my head. The way he has been since then is a different matter which is why I have had those conversations and will be having the same conversation again tomorrow because he clearly is suffering in some way and it has only gotten worse not better x


((((((Hugs)))))


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## Getting ready (May 4, 2019)

I can’t add to the medical advice here. I will say Skye has been and still is so very loved. Any decisions you make are not the wrong ones because they are made with love.

sending you love and strength.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

I can only send my thoughts and prayers. This must be so difficult and I hurt for you and Skye.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

It's always difficult to know when to say enough is enough. 
Three questions I have learned to ask myself are: 1) Is the animal suffering pain or fear to the point where it's interfering with activities he'd normally enjoy? 2) Is this pain and fear temporary, with a high chance of the animal being able to return to normal (or at least enjoyable) activities? Or does it seem likely the animal will continue to experience days filled with pain and fear? 3) Does further treatment get the animal more good quality days (a respite from pain and a chance to do fun activities) or more poor quality days (lying around feeling ill?)


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I’m sorry this is so hard for Skye and you. Seeing our beloved dogs suffer so much is often unbearable. I hope Skye can get some relief soon.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

twyla said:


> Encephalitis in dogs
> I did find thus though for you


What an excellent explanation.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

So sorry you're going through this. It's so lonely caring and being responsible for decisions regarding a sick, loved one. Truly, as Twyla says, it depends on what you're dealing with. Quality of life does not always equal longevity. However sometimes the love of life makes pain and discomfort bearable.
My late sister suffered from three different types of cancer and was in constant pain, despite morphine etc. However she loved life and gave so much to all of us. She lived 17 years, despite doctors initially saying 5 years, then 6 months which turned into 7 years. On her last evening before going to hospital for the last time, she said, knowing she wasn't coming home, that it had been worth every moment. No regrets.
Choices are not easy and it's often lonely. We are here for you, whatever choice is right for you all. 🤗


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

This breaks my heart for you all, just so unfair. He looks so lost, as if something has broken inside. I'm sure you must feel lost and broken yourself.

If you could only know whether this is something he can come back from, I know that would help, but what might it take? Even the vets aren't in agreement on how to proceed. Decisions without clear information never feel right. 

I never wanted to even be broaching this subject with you, with all that you, your family and your blessed little pups have been thru.

DogtorDoctor wrote this in another thread. I don't add this to say Skye or you are there, but to give a template for you. You might remember that I wrote you of my own hard days, hard decisions, so just know that you know Skye best and we support you. 

(Liz noted that in that thread that this warrants Sticky status and DD kindly offered to re-write it for that purpose if the S-Mods agree.)

_Making end of life decisions is always the hardest part of pet ownership, and I'm very sorry for those of you currently struggling with this. I cannot give any medical recommendations, but here are some thoughts regarding quality of life.

There is an in-depth quality of life scale called the HHHHHMM scale that can be helpful when determining when euthanasia needs to be considered . VCA also has a useful page that may help clarify things even further.

In general, what I talk about with my clients includes the big three: eating, drinking, and moving. If any of these are gone, then it is time to help our pet pass on. However, just because a pet is still doing those three things doesn't mean they have an adequate quality of life, which is where the different scales come into play. The HHHHHMM scale is the most in-depth I know of, but there are others out there as well. A simpler one is to pick either 3 or 5 things that your pet liked to do when they were at their best. Once they are not enjoying a majority of those things, it is usually time. Of course, those activities need to be scaled for age. If your dog loves hikes, they don't need to be going five miles at 15 years old. Just a short, happy walk down the block is their new equivalent. But if they either do not enjoy the walk or are unable to go out, that activity is no longer counted.

Another measure to look at, in my opinion, is body weight. At the end of life, we expect some weight loss, but we want to prevent our pets from reaching the point of starvation if they're just not able to eat enough calories to keep weight on. This is a good one to talk over with your vet, as each dog will have a different number to watch for.

Lastly, I am a firm believer in "better a week too early than a day too late." Very few clients tell me they regret euthanizing a beloved pet too early, but I have had many people feel conflicted about waiting too long. Better to let your pet experience one last, amazing day with family.

At my clinic, we offer what are called "quality of life" appointments. Some of these clients know that it is time for their pet, but for others it's a time for me to go over QOL scales and talk about palliative care. It may be worth a call to your vet to set up something similar to discuss additional pain management and other types of management plans.

My thoughts are with all of you! _


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Rose n Poos said:


> This breaks my heart for you all, just so unfair. He looks so lost, as if something has broken inside. I'm sure you must feel lost and broken yourself.
> 
> If you could only know whether this is something he can come back from, I know that would help, but what might it take? Even the vets aren't in agreement on how to proceed. Decisions without clear information never feel right.
> 
> ...


I read this same scale on google just last night. He is still eating and drinking although that is possibly because of the steroids because he wasn't eating much prior to starting them. He has little set routines each day and those routines haven't been the same in any way. Even where he chooses to sleep has changed. In the living room, he always sleeps on the rug in front of where I sit, I don't remember the last time he slept there. He is now on the sofa right beside me or taking himself to the other sofa on his own. When we go up to bed, he would usually sleep on the floor beside the bed, now he sleeps on the windowsill and has done for the past 11 days. He isn't interacting with his dog friends who live near us, even yesterday my sister picked me up to take me to the vet and had her 2 dogs in the car. He didn't even look at them and they were crying with excitement to see us. He has only been on 3 walks during this period too and that's just not like him, we usually do 3 walks per day (2 short, 1 long). The vet yesterday said "I can tell that you give him a good quality of life" the thing is though, what I can give him and what he enjoys are 2 different things. 

Someone on here told me when Cooper was going downhill that just because we can do something, doesn't mean we should and that really sticks in my head x


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I am so sorry. Is it possible the fits are due to syringomyelia rather than epilepsy? I can absolutely understand wanting to keep on trying to find the cause of poor Skye's problems, but I too believe that there comes a point where just because we can does not mean we should. More tests, more interventions, more discomfort for Skye and anxiety for you... I would want to know what is the best you and he can hope for if the diagnosis is confirmed, and just how compromised his life is likely to be, even with treatment.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

fjm said:


> I am so sorry. Is it possible the fits are due to syringomyelia rather than epilepsy? I can absolutely understand wanting to keep on trying to find the cause of poor Skye's problems, but I too believe that there comes a point where just because we can does not mean we should. More tests, more interventions, more discomfort for Skye and anxiety for you... I would want to know what is the best you and he can hope for if the diagnosis is confirmed, and just how compromised his life is likely to be, even with treatment.


I asked the vet yesterday what the treatment would be if it was syringomyelia and was told that they would have to cut a portion of his skull at the back to free space up around his brain and then any lasting symptoms would be treated with pain medication x


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## Haitch (6 mo ago)

Yikes , how awful for you all , but so good that it’s you making these decisions for him and not his breeder , that’s a compliment btw .
If this was me , and I have been at end of life many times with dogs , I would be seeing his vet , the one you trust , because some vets are out to make money , especially those belonging to a pension fund or big group. Sad but it’s how it’s gone .
Then I would say you just know , but you really do have to know that it’s time , otherwise there is always the “what if” .
Having said that , we use the better one week early than too late as well . It’s much harder when it’s a young dog .
Really does look like something wrong with his brain , poor little man , thankfully dogs live in the now , he isn’t thinking this through, he just is …
My thoughts are with you all , this isn’t your fault ,no guilt , hugs x


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Haitch said:


> Yikes , how awful for you all , but so good that it’s you making these decisions for him and not his breeder , that’s a compliment btw .
> If this was me , and I have been at end of life many times with dogs , I would be seeing his vet , the one you trust , because some vets are out to make money , especially those belonging to a pension fund or big group. Sad but it’s how it’s gone .
> Then I would say you just know , but you really do have to know that it’s time , otherwise there is always the “what if” .
> Having said that , we use the better one week early than too late as well . It’s much harder when it’s a young dog .
> ...


Thank you so much for your lovely message x


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Praying for you all. 🤗


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

My heart breaks for you, your family and Skye. I'm sure that not having clear answers as to what is wrong with Skye makes any decision on your part that much harder. I'm keeping you and Skye in my thoughts and prayers.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

I would like to thank everyone for their advice and kind words. It has been decided today, after a consultation with my own vet, to refer Skye to a neurologist and arrange an MRI scan for him. I showed my vet the footage that I have of him and she examined him today. She carried out the same examinations as yesterday and there were some changes. When she pressed on Skye's spine, almost half way down it, his back end collapsed. She repeated this 6 times and the same thing happened each time. However, there wasn't any reaction, yelping or crying from Skye. This same procedure was carried out yesterday and this did not happen and the vet yesterday was applying more pressure than my own vet. He still is resisting his head being twisted to the right hand side. She is convinced that it is all neurological and is even questioning whether he has epilepsy or not. He has been prescribed Gabapentin, 25mg morning and night with a plan to gradually increase. His steroids will be changed to half a tablet on alternate days to make stopping them before his scan easier. 

At this point, I need to know what we are dealing with so that I can make an informed decision. I can't spend more time trying other things when we may end up back in the same place. He is maintaining his weight which is great and is the perfect weight right now and she says his body condition is really good x


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

I pray the scan will show some answers. We are with you all the way. Virtual hugs and love


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

I think you are doing the right thing. It’s best to know what you are dealing with. Perhaps it’s manageable.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm glad to hear you're going to check in with neuro and do the scan. It may still be that there's a limit to how far this can be carried but it may also be that you'll get some answers that show a clearer path. 
Keeping you all close.


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## ShamrockPoodle (Jan 22, 2017)

Sending hugs and pats❤ Glad you have some specialists for Skye.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think you are right, and I hope you get some definite answers. If you chose to euthanise him now you would always wonder whether the op might have given him a near normal life, or whether there was some other solution. But it is hard to be back on this track - my thoughts are with you and your family.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Continuing sending of unconditional love your way ❤.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

fjm said:


> I think you are right, and I hope you get some definite answers. If you chose to euthanise him now you would always wonder whether the op might have given him a near normal life, or whether there was some other solution. But it is hard to be back on this track - my thoughts are with you and your family.


I agree with you completely. This is obviously a totally different thing from what Cooper had and I knew without a doubt when he was done and as difficult as that decision still was to make, I knew it was the right decision, no regrets. I don't feel like that with Skye yet, I wouldn't be sure of my decision x


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## The Popster (Feb 23, 2021)

So sorry, so very sorry.


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## a2girl (Oct 4, 2020)

I’m so sorry for you and sweet Skye, and for the frustration of not knowing exactly what is wrong. I hope that a definitive answer will come with the neurology exam and MRI. ❤


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Rose n Poos said:


> This breaks my heart for you all, just so unfair. He looks so lost, as if something has broken inside. I'm sure you must feel lost and broken yourself.
> 
> If you could only know whether this is something he can come back from, I know that would help, but what might it take? Even the vets aren't in agreement on how to proceed. Decisions without clear information never feel right.
> 
> ...


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

And I must add with our last dog, a heart dog for my husband, a diagnosis of cancer, leg amputation, than radiation and chemo prognosis was enough to bid him farewell. I cried my eyes out but I believe it was the right decision. I’m with Twyla, don’t treat cancer in pets. If anyone has any happy ever after strories on successful cancer treatments. Please share. Quality of life, is the acid test for me. Cost may be issue for others. It’s so freaking hard to pull the trigger on euthanasia.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

I got an unexpected phone call from Skye's breeder yesterday to ask how he is doing. I gave her an update on him and during the course of the conversation, I asked if Skye has ever had any accidents or injuries in the past. Without hesitation, she told me that last August (5 months old) he was on a wall in her garden and fell off it head first and his head landed on concrete. She said he was yelping a lot but then seemed fine. Maybe just a coincidence but I find a few things strange:

Why was a 5 month old puppy on a wall? He is a miniature poodle, Cooper still had difficulty getting onto the sofa at that age

Why didn't she get him checked over?

She seems to remember it pretty vividly given it was a 'non accident' if that makes sense

It might be something and nothing or it could explain everything.

I had a telephone consultation with my own vet today to update her on Skye, this was prebooked on Monday. I have informed her and she has agreed that this could be the cause and that he may have seemed fine because head trauma doesn't always present straight away. She has decided today to increase Skye's Gabapentin to 50mg twice a day and we will review next week. The reason for this is because his back is still arched. I have attached pictures of him in different positions. He has had no accidents here and wasn't like this before Monday. She thinks possibly a disc problem x


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

That's good information from the breeder for your vet. Interesting the breeder didn't have the pup looked at after it happened.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Good heavens.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

it could possibly be a disc probably


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## Puppy Love (Aug 10, 2015)

It's unfortunate Skye's breeder didn't let you know sooner but thank goodness you know now. Poor Skye. Poor all of you!


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

I'm sorry you are going through this. Lying by omission, is not OK. I'm so glad Skye is with you. Whatever the outcome, he's been taken care of a million times better by you. Virtual hugs


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Minie said:


> I'm sorry you are going through this. Lying by omission, is not OK. I'm so glad Skye is with you. Whatever the outcome, he's been taken care of a million times better by you. Virtual hugs


Thank you Minie, I don't know what is going to happen going forward. The vet is saying if his spine was neurological, she would have expected it to be different by now. Every other neurological symptom he has had has been there one day and gone the next, e.g twisting his neck, he hasn't done that again since Sunday. She said they will never operate on his brain, they want a diagnosis so they can give him the appropriate medication to improve his symptoms. However, if he also has a spinal issue, it may require surgery. She is also going to refer him to a hospital where he can be seen by a neurologist and orthopedic x


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

I just don't know what to say...

Other than Skye is so fabulously lucky to have landed with you ❤.


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## AshersMom (Aug 9, 2021)

Sole0102 said:


> I got an unexpected phone call from Skye's breeder yesterday to ask how he is doing. I gave her an update on him and during the course of the conversation, I asked if Skye has ever had any accidents or injuries in the past. Without hesitation, she told me that last August (5 months old) he was on a wall in her garden and fell off it head first and his head landed on concrete. She said he was yelping a lot but then seemed fine. Maybe just a coincidence but I find a few things strange:
> 
> Why was a 5 month old puppy on a wall? He is a miniature poodle, Cooper still had difficulty getting onto the sofa at that age
> 
> ...


I would definitely think it is a disc problem. I have had a Doberman with a bad disc who had problems always licking one front leg. It was referred pain from a bad disc. He ended up with Wobbler's disease and ultimately later a brain tumor, but his disc caused so many problems for him. Managed with pain meds at the time and I would have to wrap his front leg to keep him from licking it all the time.
I also had 3 of my 4 Greyhounds with neurological problems. It is fairly common I learned later, but they would turn their heads and look up and kind of be out of it, or walk in circles, or in my spirit dog tripod Rush the magic Greyhound, he fell down and could not walk again. I lost all 4 of my Greys from age 4-1/2(osteosarcoma ) to 6.
But I have had other experience with a friend's Doberman who had an injured disc and my own dogs. Definitely manageable. I am leery of vets who want to run the most expensive tests before they try the simple stuff. 
After losing my beloved Skylar Greyhound at age 6 from a NexGard Flea chew, I switched to my SPOO Asher. He is different from any dog in my life and I pray he will be healthy. So far, so good (18 months now), but I took out insurance just in case he has any of the SPOO problems.
Hope you can resolve Skye's problem without invasive or unnecessary tests for you. God Bless!


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## sherry.ralls (7 mo ago)

My mini poo has some discs that show calcification and every few months will act like Skye minus the neck twisting. He is on Rimadyl 37.5mg 1x day and Gabapentin (100mg 2x day). If you can afford it, I would get the MRI just to see what you are dealing with before making any decisions.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

sherry.ralls said:


> My mini poo has some discs that show calcification and every few months will act like Skye minus the neck twisting. He is on Rimadyl 37.5mg 1x day and Gabapentin (100mg 2x day). If you can afford it, I would get the MRI just to see what you are dealing with before making any decisions.


Thank you so much for your reply. Unfortunately I have personal experience of disc problems 🙄. I have a clacified disc in my lower back that I herniated and because it's calcified, my neurosurgeon was unable to free space around my nerve root and this has left me permanently disabled. We are trying our hardest to get the funds together for what he needs because he needs an MRI of his brain and now his spine, a spinal tap and neurology and orthopedic consultation. We were quoted £2000 to £2500 just for the brain MRI and neurology consultation so I can only imagine the extra cost now involved x


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

This is so sad. I knew it was time to let my heart dog go when he started to separate himself from me. Instead of lying on my feet he would separate himself a little and advert his eyes. It was a very difficult decision and the vet was not helpful although after he said Zack would not have lived thru the week. I honestly feel it is time to end his suffering. ((Hugs))


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Hi everyone, 

I just wanted to let you know that we have an appointment on the 17th November for Skye's MRI scan and neurology consultation. Hopefully it will give us some answers. Picture for tax x


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Hoping for good news - a treatable or manageable condition - but certainty helps, even when the news is not very good.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Well, that’s the very best day of the year in my book! Usually full of good things only. I’ll be thinking of Skye, and hoping for good news.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Great news. Praying for resolve on the 17 th


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Glad to hear you are making progress. I hope the appointment paves a way to a successful treatment plan.


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## Haitch (6 mo ago)

Was thinking about you this morning , so it was good to see an update


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## Apricot mini momma (Dec 22, 2020)

I am so happy to hear that. Look at that sweet face. Wishing the best for you both.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

all the waiting and not know is draining, I am sending a virtual hug


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## Puppy Love (Aug 10, 2015)

Precious little face! Hoping your questions will be answered after the scans and that they can get Skye feeling better.


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

Thanks for the update and best of luck!


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

Aw, sweet little snoot! Sending you the best of supportive vibes for the upcoming tests.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

It is surely a relief to know the actual date for Skye's testing. I will be alert for your posts. All good thoughts for a full and treatable diagnosis.


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

I hope the MRI gives you a diagnosis. I'll be thinking of you and Skye on Nov 17th.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Hi everyone, 

Today somewhere on Skye's body has been making a strange sound. Almost sounds like when someone cracks their knuckles but a lower sound than that. I'm sorry for my weird explanation but I don't know how else to explain it. It seems to be happening when he lies down and rolls onto his side. I'm not sure where it is coming from and again, there are no obvious signs of pain in him. I'm thinking it sounds like a joint noise and from observation, my best guess is his shoulder (seems to be as he turns his head to lie down) or maybe his leg but again I'm really not sure. I will call my vet in the morning to ask for advice but just wondered if anyone has experienced similar. Thanks again in advance and picture for tax x


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I have no idea but I suggest you make a video for your vet to hear and see.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm not sure if this is the same or even very similar but for at least a couple of years, sometimes, when Remo moves a certain way I hear and feel what I call a "crunking" sound in his chest area, as if something out of place goes back in, or the reverse. 

It doesn't seem to bother him at all and I've never remembered to mention it to the vet.


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## Heartland2022 (7 mo ago)

Hoping it's nothing I know my knee can make funny noises. If I turn it just right even standing on it a loud clicking or popping noise is made. It sounds just like you describe a deep clunk of sorts. It doesn't cause me any pain and there's nothing wrong with the knee. When I asked my doc about it he ask me if I ever crack my knuckles? I told him sure usually after working on a vehicle or something they get slightly stiff. He said all joints can do that just like that without pain. Turn them a certain way they will make that noise. Nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon dioxide bubbles moving in the fluid that surrounds your joints that is the cause. Hopefully that's the case with your pup 🙂. The ribs also have joints called costochondral joints if I remember right from biology. I imagine they would be capable of the sound also.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Hi everyone, 

Since last Wednesday, Skye has been having accidents in the house. He is no longer lifting his leg or squatting to pee and the vet suggested getting a urine sample in case it was an infection. His sample was tested yesterday and there is no infection, no protein, blood or sugar. The vet thinks it's either pain that is causing it or the nerves in his back. He is still very quiet, sleeping most of the day, not playing with toys. We took him for a short walk yesterday to see if some fresh air would help and he didn't leave my side. There is a little girl dog called Roxy that he is really good friends with and loves to play with (we joke it's his girlfriend because when they are together it's like get a room 😂😂). We have known her since she was a puppy and she loves us as well as Skye, always comes towards us almost wiggling out of her body. We saw her on our walk yesterday and Skye wouldn't go near her and wanted lifted. He was whimpering under his breath and Roxy, who is normally overexcited, laid down on the grass and cried 😥. Her owner said she thinks she knows Skye is unwell. We have an appointment with the vet tomorrow morning x


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Oh no! This is heartbreaking.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

cowpony said:


> Oh no! This is heartbreaking.


To be honest, I feel like I might have to make a decision on how much more I put him through. He is struggling with his back legs, losing his footing a lot, not making it when he jumps. On Saturday night, he was asleep with his chin resting on my knee, all of a sudden he yelped, his head shot backwards, all legs went rigid and started shaking. Then he lay back down to sleep but spent the next 3 and a half hours with his legs twitching every 45 seconds or so. He is such a young dog to have all of this going on. It's devastating x


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Oh poor Skye. I’m so sorry you’re all going through all this.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Starla said:


> Oh poor Skye. I’m so sorry you’re all going through all this.


Thank you Starla x


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## beowoof (Dec 6, 2021)

Skye is lucky to have such a conscientious and caring owner. please make sure to take care of yourself too!


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

beowoof said:


> Skye is lucky to have such a conscientious and caring owner. please make sure to take care of yourself too!


Thank you very much x


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

Poor dear Skye. Sole, I know you will make the right decision when the time comes. Heartbreaking. Sending prayers and love


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## Benni (Dec 31, 2021)

Just so very sorry to read this.... heartbreaking....


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Praying for you all. I'm so sad that you and Skye are suffering.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Holding you in my heart ❤.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

This is so hard and unfair. It looks like Skye is suffering a lot and not enjoying life very much. I hope he gets relief from all that one way or another. Hang in there.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

This is so, so sad. It sounds like he has definitely been telling you it is time.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

Moderator Note: I've merged all of the various Skye update threads for the month of October. Hoping this helps both the OP as well as Members offering emotional support. I've also renamed the thread Skye Updates for clarity.


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## The Popster (Feb 23, 2021)

Sympathy.
Heart bleeds for you and Skye.


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

With the amount of love and resources you're pouring into Skye - you're a saint.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Hi everyone, thank you for all of the lovely replies ❤. We had another long consultation with the vet and she is very much of the opinion that we should at least see the neurologist in 3 weeks for a consultation (scan optional). Skye's fecal sample results should be back tomorrow and if they are all clear, then the plan is to increase his steroids again to manage his diarrhoea. He pooped all over my house this morning, again with no sign that he needed the toilet. My vet has suggested weaning him off the Gabapentin in case that is making him more tired, although she did say that she knew he was sleeping a lot before starting this medication. She also wants him to get vitamin B12. He needed more anti seizure medication today and between that, his fecal and urine samples, we are £200 lighter 🤦‍♀️. We are now at just over £1500 in 3 weeks. I hope and pray that nothing happens over the next 3 weeks or we are going to have to start using money that is earmarked for this consultation and scan (if that's recommended by the neurologist). I am happy to go ahead with the consultation but I'm in no doubt that if there isn't a clear path ahead after that, I have done all that I am willing to do x


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

it is a difficult path you're on, I will send you another virtual hug because I know this is so hard on you and your family.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

twyla said:


> it is a difficult path you're on, I will send you another virtual hug because I know this is so hard on you and your family.


Thank you Twyla ❤ x


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Honestly, it is so hard to know when to say when. How do you feel about waiting and trying a change of meds? Your vet does not live with him every day.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

I am mostly silent here because there is nothing I can do to help. My thoughts are with you. May God bless you and Skye. 🙏


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Starla said:


> Honestly, it is so hard to know when to say when. How do you feel about waiting and trying a change of meds? Your vet does not live with him every day.


I know that the steroids will help with his 💩 because they did when he was on a higher dose. When we went to the vet today, Skye was stressed and was very erratic, hyper and vocal. Of course the vet thought that he looked more alert as a result. I told her that as soon as he gets home, he will sleep for most of the day. He has currently been asleep for 4 hours. I can understand her suggestion about the neurologist, they are the experts after all but all of the chopping and changing of medication has been enough already and I think if the neurologist suggests trialling lots of different medications in the hope that something works, my answer will be no. We cannot sustain this for another 6 months or a year in the hope that things improve. That's what we have been doing so far and I think sometimes you just have to try your best and sometimes accept that you can't fix everything x


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Trust yourself, do what you think is best because you will get a lot of opinions on what to do and you know Skye best.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Sole0102 said:


> He is no longer lifting his leg or squatting to pee


So much you have all been thru. 
I don't remember if IVDD has ever come up, or if there have been xrays to check for disc damage, but with that description, it seems possible.
Has this come up with the vet?

Keeping you all close.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Praying for you all. Whatever you decide, know with yourself, you've done your level best. Skye knows and feels your love. Virtual hugs.


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## a2girl (Oct 4, 2020)

I am so sorry about this hard path you and Skye have been on. My sister has been a veterinary ophthalmologist for over 30 years and has observed to me that the way that veterinary medicine is practiced today is very different than when she trained. Vets now tend to rely very heavily on tests and medication trials---and their observational and diagnostic skills have really suffered as a result. We see this in human medicine as well. There is always another test that can be done. I say all this to encourage you to trust yourself to know what's best for Skye. You know him in a deep way, the vets do not. You have given so much love and attention to Skye---I hope for better days for you both, but offer my support and heartfelt comfort if you have to make a hard decision. We all know that you only want the best for Skye.


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## JasMom (7 mo ago)

I am so sorry to read about Skye's continuing ailments. I wish nothing but peace with whatever route you decide it right.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

94Magna_Tom said:


> I am mostly silent here because there is nothing I can do to help. My thoughts are with you. May God bless you and Skye. 🙏





Rose n Poos said:


> So much you have all been thru.
> I don't remember if IVDD has ever come up, or if there have been xrays to check for disc damage, but with that description, it seems possible.
> Has this come up with the vet?
> 
> Keeping you all close.


The vet did say that she thought it was a disc causing his back issues. She said today that his neck is very tight and he still doesn't like his head being turned to the right. She did think he was a little bit young to be having disc problems too x


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

a2girl said:


> I am so sorry about this hard path you and Skye have been on. My sister has been a veterinary ophthalmologist for over 30 years and has observed to me that the way that veterinary medicine is practiced today is very different than when she trained. Vets now tend to rely very heavily on tests and medication trials---and their observational and diagnostic skills have really suffered as a result. We see this in human medicine as well. There is always another test that can be done. I say all this to encourage you to trust yourself to know what's best for Skye. You know him in a deep way, the vets do not. You have given so much love and attention to Skye---I hope for better days for you both, but offer my support and heartfelt comfort if you have to make a hard decision. We all know that you only want the best for Skye.


I must say that I have to agree with you on this. Part of me really wants to know what it is for 3 different reasons:

1. Is there a clear way to fix things for Skye?

2. To make my decision easier because I know where my absolute cut off point is and things that I would never put him or myself through

3. Plain old curiosity 

My son who is 15 has been saying for the past few weeks that he thinks Skye will get better and that we need to try to help him. He came home yesterday and told me he had changed his mind and when I asked why, he said that he was looking at a picture of Cooper when he was near the end and that Skye's face looks the same sad way x


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

BennieJets said:


> Moderator Note: I've merged all of the various Skye update threads for the month of October. Hoping this helps both the OP as well as Members offering emotional support. I've also renamed the thread Skye Updates for clarity.


Yikes, I'm so embarrassed. I was trying to "like" this post, but my computer was acting up and I see that a laughing emoji is now there instead of my intended "helpful" emoji. If possible, could one of the moderators please delete the laughing emoji attributable to me? Thank you!


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

I am so very sorry. 💜


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Kukla the Tpoo said:


> Yikes, I'm so embarrassed. I was trying to "like" this post, but my computer was acting up and I see that a laughing emoji is now there instead of my intended "helpful" emoji. If possible, could one of the moderators please delete the laughing emoji attributable to me? Thank you!


Aw. I’m glad I saw this.  Just click on the laughing symbol to remove it. You can then select another reaction.

And if ever you have a question for a moderator, you can always tag one of us using our name with the @ symbol before it. That way we won’t miss it. You can also click on the three dots in the upper right of the post and create a report for your question or request.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

Kukla the Tpoo said:


> Yikes, I'm so embarrassed. I was trying to "like" this post, but my computer was acting up and I see that a laughing emoji is now there instead of my intended "helpful" emoji. If possible, could one of the moderators please delete the laughing emoji attributable to me? Thank you!


 I understand @Kukla the Tpoo , especially on smaller devices those reaction symbols can be tricky!


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Aw. I’m glad I saw this.  Just click on the laughing symbol to remove it. You can then select another reaction.
> 
> And if ever you have a question for a moderator, you can always tag one of us using our name with the @ symbol before it. That way we won’t miss it. You can also click on the three dots in the upper right of the post and create a report for your question or request.


Thank you very much!


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## a2girl (Oct 4, 2020)

Sole0102 said:


> I must say that I have to agree with you on this. Part of me really wants to know what it is for 3 different reasons:
> 
> 1. Is there a clear way to fix things for Skye?
> 
> ...


I hope that the additional tests will yield real insight and a path forward.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Hi everyone, 

We went to my sister's house today because my brother was coming for a visit and Skye wouldn't go near Mosley or Maggie Mae. He looked extremely uncomfortable the full time we were there and he absolutely loves Maggie Mae. She spent her full time crying at him to play with her and he wouldn't move from the sofa. My sister managed her 2 dogs very well but it looked like Skye was in pain and was trying to protect himself. He even gave a couple of growls, no snapping, almost like a plea to leave him alone which is out of character for him. He also whimpered a few times, especially in the 5 minute car journey home. Such a shame because they play so well together normally. He doesn't look happy in the picture I have attached x


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

No, he doesn't :'( He looks like he's suffering a lot in that pic. Keeping you guys in my prayers every day until Skye is free from the pain and suffering.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

MaizieFrosty said:


> No, he doesn't :'( He looks like he's suffering a lot in that pic. Keeping you guys in my prayers every day until Skye is free from the pain and suffering.


He reminds me of one of the last pictures that I have with Cooper. Everytime I take him to the vet, he is extremely hyper and of course the vet thinks he looks alert enough x


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Awww 💔 (((((Hugs))))))


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Can you send your vet realistic photos photos maybe?

Also, maybe contact the specialist to ask for a sooner appointment in case they have a cancellation. You can video Skye to show how he is in real life, and I would share today's experience with both offices. No point in letting vets labor under misunderstandings of his real state.

I'm so sorry 😞 💐...


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Streetcar said:


> Can you send your vet realistic photos photos maybe?
> 
> Also, maybe contact the specialist to ask for a sooner appointment in case they have a cancellation. You can video Skye to show how he is in real life, and I would share today's experience with both offices. No point in letting vets labor under misunderstandings of his real state.
> 
> I'm so sorry 😞 💐...


We were so busy with my brother, my little toddler niece and managing the situation with the dogs that we didn't even think to video anything 🤦‍♀️. My sister suggested earlier that I should pop back to hers with Skye but only stay for a cuppa so that we can get footage but also limit how long he is there if that makes sense. That way the vet can see how he is moving around the other dogs. We have footage of them all running together at the beach which was just a few days before Skye became unwell. At least there would be a comparison x


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Aw.  Skye might be at the point he prefers to be alone rather than in a chaotic social environment, especially with two dogs there. I think of Gracie when she was recovering from surgery. She needed a lot of space while she was in pain. And if Skye has possible disc disease or injury, he really needs a lot of rest and to be kept still (which I know is so hard).

Did your vet give any advice regarding her suspicion it’s a disc?

Hoping for clear answers from your upcoming appointment with the neurologist.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Hi everyone, 

It's me.......again 🙄. Looking for some advice as usual. Over the past week, Skye will be lying asleep then suddenly his head shoots up and backwards to where his nose is pointing at the ceiling and his head tremors for about 10 seconds. Then, he scans from side to side then lies back down. He looks rigid when his head is up. I have spoken to my vet who has suggested trying to get it on video. I have tried sitting with the video ready to catch him and of course it doesn't happen. I will obviously continue trying to get footage but just wondering if any of you have experienced anything similar? x


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I know the MRI is not for a couple more weeks, but has he had x-rays on his spine? I’m assuming this was done due to the vet’s suspicion of disc issue or injury, but I can’t recall the outcome.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I know the MRI is not for a couple more weeks, but has he had x-rays on his spine? I’m assuming this was done due to the vet’s suspicion of disc issue or injury, but I can’t recall the outcome.


No, he hasn't had any x-rays because my vet thinks that we need to prioritise things and that his neurological symptoms are more important right now. I honestly feel like I'm fighting a losing battle. The stress and worry is relentless. I even spoke to her last week about considering end of life and was again told no, wait and see what the neurologist says. I have a dog here who doesn't want to do anything apart from sleep, eat and do the toilet. We have had 9 vet visits in 4 and a half weeks and who knows if there will be any more before we even get to see the neurologist. I honestly feel stuck right now 😥 x


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I’m struggling to understand this. Your vet suspects it’s a disc, Skye has a history of injury, he’s a breed who’s susceptible to IVDD, he shows ongoing neck discomfort, he’d had _nine_ vet exams.... All this and you’re left waiting for an expensive MRI, with a dog who is in visible pain, and no x-ray in the meantime??

I obviously am not a vet, but Gracie’s dental, disc, and tracheal issues were _all_ identified with x-ray. And the x-rays were done in our vet’s office with no wait.

I don’t wish to add to your stress, but it doesn’t make sense to me that your vet is defending no x-rays as prioritizing his neurological symptoms. IVDD is neurological, as is any injury to the spine.


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

I am so very sorry for you and Skye. I certainly can understand why you not only feel stressed, but also stuck. And although the appointment with the neurologist is in two weeks, two weeks is a long time when Skye's health issues seem to be worsening. You, your family and Skye continue to be in my thoughts.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I’m struggling to understand this. Your vet suspects it’s a disc, Skye has a history of injury, he’s a breed who’s susceptible to IVDD, he shows ongoing neck discomfort, he’d had _nine_ vet exams.... All this and you’re left waiting for an expensive MRI, with a dog who is in visible pain, and no x-ray in the meantime??
> 
> I obviously am not a vet, but Gracie’s dental, disc, and tracheal issues were _all_ identified with x-ray. And the x-rays were done in our vet’s office with no wait.
> 
> I don’t wish to add to your stress, but it doesn’t make sense to me that your vet is defending no x-rays as prioritizing his neurological symptoms. IVDD is neurological, as is any injury to the spine.


I am going to be completely honest with you here, I do not have a clue what is going on or how to resolve any of this. I am totally with you and agree with everything that you have said. I honestly believe that my own vet feels out of her depth with this and is purely guessing ( not a dig at her in any way, just purely observation). This is what has happened in 4 and a half weeks:

Prescribed piriton after being stung by a wasp
Prescribed metronidazole and promax after having bloody diarrhoea 
Prescribed prednisolone 5mg for 3 days then half a tablet daily
Prescribed Gabapentin 25mg twice a day then increased to 50mg twice a day
Prednisolone reduced to 2.5mg every other day then stopped.
Diarrhoea started again 
Gabapentin reduced to 25mg twice a day
Ordered urine and fecal samples, restart prednisolone 1mg twice daily for 4 days then once daily
Urine sample clear
Wean off Gabapentin, now off it completely 
Fecal sample clear
Restart prednisolone 2.5mg daily.

That is a lot in such a short space of time. Even more so when we still don't know what is going on. We have spent almost £1700 in this space of time with another £2500 due in 2 weeks. I wouldn't mind if I was seeing improvements of some sort but I'm not. There has to be a cut off point somewhere. I don't know if the thing he is doing with his head is seizure related or if it's because he is sore. The vet said last week "It could be that Skye has some sort of inflammatory condition that is affecting his brain, spine and stomach". Again, it's all guesswork x


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

That is a lot going into his little body.  And he’s also on medication for epilepsy?


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## JasMom (7 mo ago)

Would your vet listen if you request she does X-rays? When our Greyhound was in pain with head and facial swelling, our vet wanted to try meds for 10 days and then do an x-ray if he was not improving. I told her I would prefer to do the X-ray right away since we were suspecting cancer. She did them for us.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> That is a lot going into his little body.  And he’s also on medication for epilepsy?


Yes, he is on phenobarbital. He takes 0.6ml morning and night, 12 hours apart. This is his haul over the past 4 weeks. Another thing that we have noticed is him excessively licking, either us or the air, not himself though. I don't know what is causing that either x


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

JasMom said:


> Would your vet listen if you request she does X-rays? When our Greyhound was in pain with head and facial swelling, our vet wanted to try meds for 10 days and then do an x-ray if he was not improving. I told her I would prefer to do the X-ray right away since we were suspecting cancer. She did them for us.


I did ask her about an x-ray for his spine and that's when she said we need to prioritise. Even with his tummy troubles, she is putting him onto steroids instead of doing more investigations there. I believe that she believes the neurologist is going to piece it all together. She wanted to take him off the Gabapentin to see if that was the reason he was sleeping all day although she admitted herself that she knew he had been sleeping all day before starting that medication x


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

My heart breaks for you. I wish there was some way to get him into the neurologist sooner, but of course there's always a waiting list for MRI imaging. That pill collection reminds me of things I've seen with elderly relatives. They have a problem, they get a medication, the medication causes a side effect, the doctor prescribes something else get something else to manage the side effect, and eventually they end up with a fleet of medications all causing problems. It really sounds to me like your vet is in over her head and should be aiming simply to keep Skye stable and pain free at this point.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

That is a LOT for a dog with no diagnosis. 

If it were Peggy, I’d be asking that we put that money toward diagnostics rather than stabbing around with prescription medications that may or may not be making things worse. This has been an ongoing struggle between me and vets over the years. I can relate very much to how overwhelming it can feel.


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

I fail to understand why your vet won't follow through with a cheaper X-ray while insisting on the more expensive MRI. I really hope they're able to find a treatable diagnoses. You've made an incredible financial and emotional investment in Skye. It pains me neither of you are any closer to relief. As I said before, you're a saint.


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## JasMom (7 mo ago)

I agree with cowpony that your vet sounds like she has exhausted what she is comfortable doing. Is there another general practice vet you could see for a second opinion while waiting for the specialist? 

To me, it is somewhat alarming that she keeps brushing aside your concerns about end of life. You know your dog better than anyone else. How poor will his quality of life have to be before she will listen? It can be hard, but you may have to be more firm with her to get diagnostic work from this vet.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I know, more visits, more $$$, but if your current vet isn't an internal medicine specialist, that's what you and Skye need asap. 

Reminding again that I'm not medically trained but if I remember the timeline even close to correctly, Skye had his (supposed) first seizure some weeks after he came home with you, and some months after the recently revealed fall. 

Then, a few weeks back he suddenly was having trouble with mobility and seemed very lost, out of it. That's how it looked to me. After the fall was revealed, I started wondering about disc injury and now think that pain is a big factor in how he looked and acted in the videos, and still is, along with potential further damage. 

Regardless of the apparent seizure activity, suspected disc injury should have required an xray. Takes minutes and should be low $$$. Also, (I'm getting agitated as I type this) you should have been told to keep him on crate rest if a disc injury was a possibility. 

I would politely demand the xrays needed to determine this. 

I'm also wondering if all of his symptoms might be laid at the doorstep of the fall but separate from each other. The "idiopathic" epilepsy might be due to traumatic brain injury (the fall), and the potential disc issue could have been a traumatic injury alone (the fall) or an inherent genetic issue triggered (by the fall). 

I could be way wrong but whatever else, require that xray, and if it shows disc damage, at least that's one thing identified. It may not lead to a good result, but it will be good information.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Rose n Poos said:


> Also, (I'm getting agitated as I type this) you should have been told to keep him on crate rest if a disc injury was a possibility.


This has been weighing on me, too.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I am remembering a dog I knew with GME - the initial diagnosis was either disk issues or encephalitis, but I can't remember how the confirmed diagnosis was reached. It was certainly within a day or two of the dog first being seen though, and she was immediately referred to a specialist. I agree - whatever this is it is not responding to first or second line treatment and needs diagnostic tests ASAP.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Rose n Poos said:


> I know, more visits, more $$$, but if your current vet isn't an internal medicine specialist, that's what you and Skye need asap.
> 
> Reminding again that I'm not medically trained but if I remember the timeline even close to correctly, Skye had his (supposed) first seizure some weeks after he came home with you, and some months after the recently revealed fall.
> 
> ...


It has never been suggested to me to crate rest him or even not to walk him. The fact that he is now on no pain medication worries me too. I agree with the things that you have said and when I told my vet about his fall, she said it could explain everything. I have been told that I am lucky that neurology have agreed to see him as they would usually suggest things for the vet to try first, especially given his age. Unfortunately there are only 2 MRI scanners in Scotland so I understand that demand will be high. However, I have to question what it takes for it to be considered an emergency and whether there was a possibility of seeing either the neurologist before a scan or the internal medicine services, which I have been told there is a possibility of the neurologist referring us to also x


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I have been where you are, it's bewildering. Your regular vet is like a general practitioner of the human world, they just don't know.

I was a sent to an oncologist for my Beatrice, but when she has the same 3 papers copied out that I found of the internet for Beatrice's crazy rare cancer, I knew she didn't know.
Thankfully for the most part we could treat Beatrice's symptoms. 

If you think this is spinal, tell your vet can we treat it like it is, my Pia has a I.V.D.D. gene, I had her tested but 3 years ago she slipped on the floor and got wobbly and then got better then ran full into a glass door and got wobbly again I begged my vet to treat her for symptoms of I.V.D.D. which he did, but I have history and knowledge because I lost my first poodle Baby to a ruptured disc in her neck which paralyzed her 

Be incredibly frank with your vet, tell him again Skye fell on his head and specifically why you want to pursue the treatments/tests that want done.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Sole0102 said:


> The fact that he is now on no pain medication worries me too.


Something to consider: If pain meds mask the pain of an unstable spinal injury, they could have been doing more harm than good.

Based on everything you’ve said here, I would be asking for an x-ray tomorrow, even if it means seeing a different vet.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I guess we posted at the same time, Pia was crate rested for two months along with a 10 day course of steriods, she has had three worrying incidents where her front kegs got wobbly and recovered from them.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

twyla said:


> I have been where you are, it's bewildering. Your regular vet is like a general practitioner of the human world, they just don't know.
> 
> I was a sent to an oncologist for my Beatrice, but when she has the same 3 papers copied out that I found of the internet for Beatrice's crazy rare cancer, I knew she didn't know.
> Thankfully for the most part we could treat Beatrice's symptoms.
> ...


Thank you for your advice Twyla. This is the reason that I said in my previous post that I'm not having a dig at my vet. She is just as stuck as I am right now. I will certainly contact her to ask if we can do some things differently and try other options. Also, thank you for sharing your experience with me, I know that it's difficult to remember sad times that you have gone through x


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Thank you Sole, I can only hope that I can help others from what I have learned. 
Hugs


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Sole0102 said:


> until the past 11 days, the thought of putting Skye to sleep wasn't even a thought in my head. The way he has been since then is a different matter


Did the wasp sting coincide with this change in Skye?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

One more thought: You’ve ceased all flea and tick treatments, correct? When was the last dose?

Bravecto, Nexgard, Simparica, etc. have all been linked to neurological symptoms according to the FDA, with Nexgard at the top of the list. More information here:









Seizures among side effects from popular flea and tick medications for pets


RUTHERFORD, N.J. – A visit to the vet changed the lives of a New Jersey woman and her dog. In November, a veterinarian recommended that Tugba Aksoy have her dog Lokum switch from his flea and tick …




fox59.com


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Did the wasp sting coincide with this change in Skye?


He wasn't his normal self on the Wednesday after his grooming appointment. He slept the rest of the day which isn't normal for him. My daughter and I took him for a walk on the Thursday lunchtime and he was acting strange, barking at nothing and finding it difficult to listen to basic commands. Then he was stung by the wasp during that walk. All of the other symptoms progressed after this x


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> One more thought: You’ve ceased all flea and tick treatments, correct? When was the last dose?
> 
> Bravecto, Nexgard, Simparica, etc. have all been linked to neurological symptoms according to the FDA, with Nexgard at the top of the list. More information here:
> 
> ...


Yes, his flea treatment was stopped a few months ago because of the risk of seizures x


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

I really have nothing more to add. You've got very good advice. It's awful for you both. Praying for you all


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Sole0102 said:


> Yes, his flea treatment was stopped a few months ago because of the risk of seizures x


Ah okay.  On Twitter it sounded like he was still being given treatments up until quite recently.

I’m sorry to be covering ground you’ve probably already covered dozens of times before. You just never know what might lead to an ah-ha moment. I will continue to ponder and think positive thoughts for you and Skye.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Sole0102 said:


> He wasn't his normal self on the Wednesday after his grooming appointment. He slept the rest of the day which isn't normal for him. My daughter and I took him for a walk on the Thursday lunchtime and he was acting strange, barking at nothing and finding it difficult to listen to basic commands.


I was just browsing back through your posts, hoping something would jump out at me, and your beloved Cooper had a similar experience after a grooming, barking at nothing. Did he go to the same groomer?

No need to reply to all my questions. Just reaching for anything that might help you and your vet connect the dots.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Hi everyone, 

We have been at the vet hospital since 10am (now 2pm) for Skye to see the neurologist. The neurologist thinks it's either liver shunt or hydrocephalus that is causing his problems. He is currently having the liver shunt tests done, they do bloods then feed him then do more bloods 2 hours later. These results will take 2 days to come back. If the results are negative, he will need the MRI scan. He also needs to see an optometrist, the back of his eyes look red and abnormal and he is inconsistent in his reactions. We can pick him up around 3pm and then head home x


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

waiting stinks
hugs


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

So sorry for the delay. You really need answers


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

I was so hoping you would get a diagnosis today. I know how difficult it must be for you to have to yet wait again for an answer.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Wow. I'm sorry about the additional delays. I wish your regular vet had referred you much earlier.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Thank you for your kind replies. We are finally back home, it's been a long day, left home at 7am. It will be an early bed for Skye and myself tonight. I feel better that the neurologist narrowed it down to 2 possibilities instead of 20, I'm trying to take that as a positive. Hopefully we are on the road to answers 🤞 x


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

((Hugs))m I hope you are on the road to answers and effective treatment.


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

If the liver shunt test result is negative, I do hope you won't have to wait a long time for the MRI.

Hope you and Skye sleep well tonight after your very long day.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

I just feel so bad. 😔I really hope you can get things figured out soon. Thank you for the update. Hugs to you and wishing good rest for all.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Kukla the Tpoo said:


> If the liver shunt test result is negative, I do hope you won't have to wait a long time for the MRI.
> 
> Hope you and Skye sleep well tonight after your very long day.


I don't think we will have to wait long now that the neurologist is in charge of things. She was very nice, understanding and helpful. It would have been Super Cooper's 2nd gotcha day today which just made today a little bit tougher. We all still miss him every day x


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

Oh my, the fact that today would have been Cooper's 2nd gotcha day breaks my heart. You and your family have been through so much these past two years. 

I'm glad you found the neurologist to be understanding and helpful. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you soon have a diagnosis and that something can be done to give Skye a good quality of life.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Thank you for the update. Skye is now in good hands. I hope you get definitive answers soon.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

We were all hoping for you and Skye that this would be a day with answers. Still, with the neuro doc on Skye's side now, this feels like progress towards answers.

I know you feel Cooper every day, and now trying to find your way thru to help Skye in this challenge must be difficult.

Always know that the PF Poodle Band of Love surrounds you every day.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

At least the answers feel much closer. Liver shunt is an interesting one - has it been mooted before?


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

fjm said:


> At least the answers feel much closer. Liver shunt is an interesting one - has it been mooted before?


It has never been mentioned before but was the first thing the neurologist suggested. It was a university hospital that he went to and when we arrived, 2 students came to take his history from me and then took him away and said they were going to speak to the neurologist. I actually thought at that point that I wasn't actually going to get to see the neurologist. They had him for over an hour and then they came back out with the neurologist and an internal medicine doctor. They said they can't see anything wrong with his spine so it was probably neurological. He hasn't had enough seizures for them to say that he has epilepsy and he has only had one mini seizure in 13 weeks. The level of phenobarbital isn't high enough to control epilepsy. They explained about liver shunt and hydrocephalus and what the treatment options would be and suggested doing the liver shunt tests. We had to leave him again for another 3 hours. They are testing the ammonia levels in his blood and bile acid to see what his liver does after he eats. If that's the issue, he will need to be prescribed antibiotics, lactulose (to remove ammonia from the bloodstream) and 2 other medications and he will need to be on a strict hypoallergenic diet. If that doesn't help then surgery is the only option. If it's hydrocephalus, they can use medication but it depends on how much fluid is there. If it's too much, they would have to insert a tube into his skull and drain the fluid into his abdomen. Both of these are congenital conditions. She was honest and said she doesn't know what is wrong with his eyes, he would need to see a specialist for that. All she knows is the back of his eyes are abnormal. She said they were flicking their fingers towards his eyes in different directions and his reactions were inconsistent x


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

This sounds like a lot to process, but what a relief to be getting some answers. Thinking of you and Skye.


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## JasMom (7 mo ago)

All I can say is I hope you get some answers soon and send a big virtual hug!


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Hugs and love to you and Skye and the rest of the family xoxoxoxo


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Sending hugs from us, too 🥰. Hoping for answers very soon.


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## a2girl (Oct 4, 2020)

Thinking of you and sweet Skye and hoping you get some resolution soon. Hugs from me and Hugo.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Hi everyone, 

Sorry for taking so long to update you all. Skye doesn't have liver shunt, the tests came back negative. I received an email from the neurologist today saying they want to offer a hearing test and an eye test with an ophthalmologist. She said the issues with his eyes could be causing behavioural issues which I'm assuming she means his reactivity with people, again always vocal but not aggressive. We are still waiting for a date for his MRI scan, any emergencies take priority. The tests for his ears and eyes are estimated to cost around £160 to £170 because he will be awake during them. I'm not sure whether to do these tests first or prioritise the scan. My main concern is running out of funds doing all of these other tests x


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I think diagnosing the cause of the seizures is a higher priority than diagnosing the cause of the anxiety. A seizure could kill him. The anxiety probably won't. If you have the funds to run all the tests, it certainly wouldn't hurt to do them all. If running the eye and ear tests puts you in the position of needing to delay the MRI, then I would prioritize the MRI and wait on the eye and ear tests.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

cowpony said:


> I think diagnosing the cause of the seizures is a higher priority than diagnosing the cause of the anxiety. A seizure could kill him. The anxiety probably won't. If you have the funds to run all the tests, it certainly wouldn't hurt to do them all. If running the eye and ear tests puts you in the position of needing to delay the MRI, then I would prioritize the MRI and wait on the eye and ear tests.


That is exactly how I feel. Last week has already dented some of our funds because of the tests they carried out and if they do more, we wouldn't be able to afford the scan. I feel so drained right now which isn't helped by the fact that I'm averaging about 2 hours sleep a night 🙄. That's due to a combination of stress and pain. It sure is hard work x


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

UGH, I wish you were in the US. It sounds like the medical care here is much more advanced. I wonder if your vet could consult with a specialty group, such as the one I take my dogs to?


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Oh Sole, I was hoping you would get some answers.
it well and truly stinks not knowing and not getting answers, it' stinks Skye is sick.
Hugs sweetie


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I too was so hoping for a firm diagnosis and a plan. I suppose the core of it is that once all the likely issues have been ruled out you may well be into uncharted territory - some conditions are so rare that there is little information available, even to the best of vets, as Twyla's experience with Beatrice demonstrates. 

Sending you a virtual hug, and hoping your own health improves - the anxiety cannot be helping.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Oh it's just dreadful the choices you are forced to make. If the tests are a way of avoiding the scan, and then you end up scanning anyway, all you have done is delay the grounds for decision making.
Virtual hugs from


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

I just wanted to let everyone know that we have managed to get the funds for Skye to get his eye and hearing tests done. He has to be at the hospital on Monday morning at 8.30am and will be there for approximately 2 hours. We can't leave any stone unturned. I took him for a little trim around his eyes and his ears (groomer somehow forgot to trim them last time so they were really long and now they are really short 🤦‍♀️). He is booked for a full haircut on 19th December. He got an advent calendar but he is on a strict diet so we removed the treats and replaced with his kibble x


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

Skye looks very handsome after his little trim! 

I hope all goes well on Monday with the tests. Any word on when he might be able to have the MRI done?


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## Benni (Dec 31, 2021)

What a sweet picture next to the Advent Calendar. I hope you will find some answers soon to get him back to better health so you all can enjoy the upcoming holidays with joy and hope.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Kukla the Tpoo said:


> Skye looks very handsome after his little trim!
> 
> I hope all goes well on Monday with the tests. Any word on when he might be able to have the MRI done?


I am hoping to get a date in the diary on Monday x


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Holding you all close.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Praying and sending love


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Hi everyone, 

We were at the hospital for Skye's hearing and eye tests. His hearing is absolutely fine which is great. The ophthalmologist has said that his eyes look physically normal however, his reactions are not very good. The neurologist said they were standing with their hand above his eyes and he didn't know it was there. His eyes weren't reacting to movements consistently either. The ophthalmologist said he thinks it's neurological and is thinking either hydrocephalus or a brain malformation. Both are in agreement that he needs to remain on his anti seizure medication. It has been suggested that after his MRI scan (I should have a date by the end of this week) we may need to do a urine sample test where they freeze his sample then process it and are looking for something in it which indicates neurological problems. I'm not sure what they are looking for with that but if the scan shows up a certain thing, they will use the urine test as a way of doubling up the diagnosis 🤷‍♀️. It's apparently a specialist urine test which costs between £300 and £400. It's been another long day x


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Wow. Definitely a long day. It seems every answer calls for even more questions. Though, the initial neurological path seems to be the most trodden on.
Virtual hugs to you all


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

That's good news about Skye's hearing. I hope you will not have to wait much longer for an MRI appointment, and most importantly, that the test yields a definitive diagnosis.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

It sure isn’t an easy path for you and Skye but at least you’re getting closer to the finish line it seems.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Hi everyone, Skye had another strange day on Sunday which resulted in a trip to the out of hours vet because he wasn't eating or drinking at all, was having tremors, walking around with his head down then not responding to us talking to him. He was also refusing to go up or down stairs or jump onto the sofa. He was like this from 8am until 3pm and didn't eat anything the entire day. We managed to get some fluids into him. Same diagnosis as always, it's neurological. He was given an injection of Prevomax and had his bloods done to check his electrolyte levels. He slept the rest of the day and night and was back to normal the next day. Between his vet visits in October, the tests that the neurologist recommended carrying out and his appointment on Sunday, we are now £3000 down 🙄😱. Still another £2000 to go for the MRI scan which won't be happening until new year because we need some time to make up some funds. I have attached a couple of links to videos so you can see how he was x p.s please excuse the mess in the background of the first video, teenagers messy bedroom to blame 😂😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604455514947162112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604459332581691395


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Oh gosh, it is really heartbreaking to see him continue to suffer so much 😭😭😭 I'm just going to say again, if it were me, I would let him go. Sending courage and love.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

How is he between episodes ? Does he enjoy life ? And how often do these episodes happen ?


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## Haitch (6 mo ago)

I personally wouldn’t euthanise if the rest of the time he has quality of life , from your earlier posts I am surprised to see how well he does a lot of the time , dogs don’t live long enough as it is , 😕 , wishing you all the best x


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