# Incontinent- 1.5 years old



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

she could have a UTI, that does cause dribbling, frequent urination etc
Does Your Dog Have a Urinary Tract Infection? Learn the Symptoms


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

twyla said:


> she could have a UTI, that does cause dribbling, frequent urination etc
> Does Your Dog Have a Urinary Tract Infection? Learn the Symptoms


It could be that. The tests the vet could perform at his office came up negative, and that's why he is doing further testing- sending the urine sample off to a lab where they can see what grows when they culture it.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Hoping for the best for little Audrey! Sorry you're having this scare. (((Hugs)))


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Well I'm hoping you can get it sorted soon, my 3 year old Beatrice is being treated for a UTI, 5 days in and she is peeing normally again


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

twyla said:


> Well I'm hoping you can get it sorted soon, my 3 year old Beatrice is being treated for a UTI, 5 days in and she is peeing normally again


I read your thread. I read lots here, I rarely comment though. You and zooeysmom are good posters, PF Angels. :angel:

A part of me hopes it is a UTI, or something not chronic.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Let us know how your girl is doing.

I too had all kinds of bad thoughts run through my head when Beatrice starting peeing more, mine was frustration because Bea just had knee surgery in March her second. I was wondering what else could be broken on my sweet girl. So I understand.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Oh yes! Hoping it is an UTI ..........and quit kicking yourself too! We all go through the "I shoulda, coulda, woulda," thing! You are doing what you need to do now, and that's what counts! It'll all be just fine I bet!:flowers:


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I’ve had urinalys on a dog come back negative, treat for infection anyways and it stopped the peeing.


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## marialydia (Nov 23, 2013)

Also, diet matters enormously. Pericles had struvite crystals in August, and was dribbling after urinating. He was on antibiotics 2 weeks, but I think changing his food was also critical. He was put on that awful Science Diet c/d but after a bit I started adding some food that had the right proportions of some of the minerals concerned..."Now" organic food. In any case, he has been fine for the past six weeks.


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

Thank you for the replies.

MollyMuiMa is always an angel, too!

Dechi, good advise. When the results come back, if he says they are negative, I'll ask him if we can treat just in case before trying the sphincter drug. I forgot what he called the drug but after a google search I assume he probably told me phenylpropanolamine.

marialydia, DVM also said there could be multiple tiny crystals scrapping the bladder wall that he can't detect with the tools in his office. That urine sample will also be tested for those, too. I'm gonna google that a bit, diet for crystals. Right now I feed her Orijen Original Formula, and she is a heavy chewer so we go through lots of bully sticks, no hide chews by earth animal, and dried sweet potatoes.


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

Just got a call from our vet. Audrey has tiny Calcium Oxalate Crystals. Doc said she needs to be on a Rx food, he named 3 brands Royal Canin, Purina, and another brand I can't recall (probably Hill's Science Diet).

He knows I feed my cats raw, but we didn't talk about that for Audrey.
(My female Bengal cat was throwing up commercial foods and I spent $$$$ trying to figure out what was wrong with her. I finally put her on raw and she went from throwing up 3-5 times a week to 3-5 times a year. I couldn't get her to eat her bones and liver so I buy a supplement you add to raw meat. I was using TC Feline but I recently switched to Feline Instincts.)

He also said this may or may not cure her incontinence at rest, we'll just have to see.

I'm gonna buy the Rx food till I figure out if something else might be better in the raw world.


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

DVM called me this morning. He said Staphylococcus showed up on an extended test of her sample. I picked up a Rx for Clavamox, 1mL twice a day.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Thank you for the update. Here's hoping your girl is sorted out by this and things go back to normal.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Thanx for the update.......hope this is the answer to your dilemma!


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

Glad to hear that the vet was able to find something (I feel it is most frustrating when nothing can be found at all and you have to just keep guessing!!) Hoping that these treatment plans work for your little one!


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

I think this is "good" news, poofs! Hope Audrey will feel much better now.


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

Audrey is still incontinent at rest. But we're still hopeful.
While we wait for things to get better, I got her some stylish briefs for inside time out of the crate, but she stays outside a lot more. I make pads out of paper napkin and tissue, change em out.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm sorry Audrey's still suffering from incontinence  But she sure does look adorable in her hot pants


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

poofs said:


> Audrey is still incontinent at rest. But we're still hopeful.
> While we wait for things to get better, I got her some stylish briefs for inside time out of the crate, but she stays outside a lot more. I make pads out of paper napkin and tissue, change em out.


If she’s been incontinent since forever, she never learned to hold it. When the meds have taken their full effect, if this continues then it might be behavioral.

Then you might want to try to really mentally prepare ypurself to treat her just like a puppy you need to housebreak. Without the diapers. Forget everything and start over again.

Try that for a good 3-4 weeks and see if you have any kind of improvement.

When does she pee / leak now ?

She’s beautiful by the way. And you should buy lady pads, much more efficient than napkins, lol !


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Love those panties where did you get them. My Sage will sneak out and pee when I am working in the office, I think it is spite. I put a diaper on her when I am in the office. I take her out every couple of hours.


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

She has another pair, purple glitter!


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

Dechi said:


> If she’s been incontinent since forever, she never learned to hold it. When the meds have taken their full effect, if this continues then it might be behavioral.
> 
> Then you might want to try to really mentally prepare ypurself to treat her just like a puppy you need to housebreak. Without the diapers. Forget everything and start over again.
> 
> ...


She only leaks when she is at rest. There's no dripping, no submissive greeting pee, or anything like that.
She pees on command.
I work from home and we go outside often.

But I have thought about training, she doesn't have good 'greeting people' skills, she jumps on them and rubs on their legs like a cat (i have 2 cats, too), and ignores my commands for about 5 minutes, then she finally calms down after she's done sniffing people. We have a DVM appointment for Dec 21, I plan on asking the Doc what he thinks about behavioral if it's not cleared up by then medically. The last thing I want to do is put her on a lifetime drug usually prescribed for mature dogs. Also, I live in a rural place, not sure what kind of behavioral trainers we have around here.

Sanitary pads are a great idea!


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

glorybeecosta said:


> Love those panties where did you get them. My Sage will sneak out and pee when I am working in the office, I think it is spite. I put a diaper on her when I am in the office. I take her out every couple of hours.


pantsfordogs


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

I used to pet sit for a mastiff that had been spayed early. She was on proin because she leaked in her sleep. Believe me, an English Mastiff leaks a lot! She did fine when she got her one pill a day and it really was not a big deal, except I cringed at putting my hand into her slobbery mouth. I resorted to her favorite cheese, wrapped around the pill. Another Springer Spaniel was on proin for the same thing. Her dad just held the pill on hos open palm and told her to eat her pill, which she promptly did! I hope your pup does not need to be on lifelong meds, but if she does, there are so many worse things than one pill a day. Sounds like she has a bad infection going on. I think you are on the right track to be thinking raw food rather than those suggested prescription diets, especially for log term use. Although Orijen is highly rated , I know I have heard some owners complain that the protein level is too high for their particular dog. Good luck; keep us in the loop as things progress.


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

Charmed said:


> I used to pet sit for a mastiff that had been spayed early. She was on proin because she leaked in her sleep. Believe me, an English Mastiff leaks a lot! She did fine when she got her one pill a day and it really was not a big deal, except I cringed at putting my hand into her slobbery mouth. I resorted to her favorite cheese, wrapped around the pill. Another Springer Spaniel was on proin for the same thing. Her dad just held the pill on hos open palm and told her to eat her pill, which she promptly did! I hope your pup does not need to be on lifelong meds, but if she does, there are so many worse things than one pill a day. Sounds like she has a bad infection going on. I think you are on the right track to be thinking raw food rather than those suggested prescription diets, especially for log term use. Although Orijen is highly rated , I know I have heard some owners complain that the protein level is too high for their particular dog. Good luck; keep us in the loop as things progress.


When I say 'at rest' I do mean asleep, she doesn't leak when awake and lounging.

I've read a few stories/warnings around here about poodles leaking because of spay, and the internet corroborates this. Hormones help develop sphincter muscles in young dogs.

Another thing about Orijen, they add ingredients to help keep urine acidic, which helps in healthy dogs and dogs prone to UTIs and yeast infections. But if my girl is prone to making calcium oxalate, then low ph urine is not good.

Right now she is on Rx Purina UR, and I plan on keeping her on it so the DVM knows what he is working with till we figure this out. If he can't figure it out, then I'll try my own way.


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

Something else I've noticed.

When she was on Orijen she made huge poops! But I also gave a chew-chew every day, too. No rawhide. My husband and I would joke around about 'how could such a big wolf size poop come out of a little poodle.'

On this Rx Purina UR, her poops are much smaller, like a third of the size.
On Orijen she got 1/2c all day, and Purina is 1c all day.
I feed twice a day.

The Purina has lots of instant energy corn carbs in it.


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

These are specifically made for poodles in a continental cut.
I think Audrey has a high tail set because the hole opening for the tail kinda pushes on the base of her tail, but she doesn't seem to notice.










We were just outside fetching so she has some grass in her hair!


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

Lol I love those sparkly purple pants! She does a great job showing them off! It is odd that pants made specifically for poodles in cc wouldnt accommodate a correct tail set. That just seems silly because you would think that most poodles in a cc are showing and have nice tailsets lol. As long as it doesn't bother her, she is definitely rocking them though!


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Poofs, Audrey looks absolutely adorable in her purple pants - snazzy.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

This may not help at all but I have a chihuahua who constantly had sturvite crystals and occulate ? crystals many years ago. He was put on a prescription diet too, what worked for him was adding water to his kibble twice a day. He had to drink the water to get to his food. Sounds kind of odd but he no longer gets prescription food and hasn't had another uti or crystals in over 10 years. He is 15 now.
At one time we also rescued an older female terrier who also would leak only in her sleep, the vet put her on proin and it worked for her.


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

Mufar42 said:


> This may not help at all but I have a chihuahua who constantly had sturvite crystals and occulate ? crystals many years ago. He was put on a prescription diet too, what worked for him was adding water to his kibble twice a day. He had to drink the water to get to his food. Sounds kind of odd but he no longer gets prescription food and hasn't had another uti or crystals in over 10 years. He is 15 now.
> At one time we also rescued an older female terrier who also would leak only in her sleep, the vet put her on proin and it worked for her.


That's very helpful.
From what I've read (internet sources) struvite crystals form in an alkaline environment, and calcium oxolate in acidic. I've also read a few stories, googling around, people posting about their dogs fluctuating from one to the other.

I started adding water to her Rx food, which worked out great because she's more enthusiastic about eating it now. Food doesn't always motivate her. She misses those chew-chews tho.


ETA:
Also, before orijen she was eating freeze dried that I reconstituted with water.
I probably noticed the first scant leaks in the 3rd 25lb bag of orijen (also a 13lb bag, just checked my order history  ).
We had just opened our 4th bag when I took her to the vet for large leaks.


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

A bit of an update.

With the help of the panties and human pads, I've been able to observe exactly when she pees. I'm seeing a correlation with excessive leaks at rest after she has been outside for a while by herself.

The first year or so of her life I never left her outside by herself, so I'm thinking some kind of anxiety issues. But she is still leaking small amounts at rest and I can't figure out if there is a pattern.

She also peed, large amounts, on our outdoor furniture. I've been doing some outdoor potty training and she hasn't done it in about a week.

I've been leaving her outside more often and monitoring her. I try not to go outside when she is acting anxious. All toys kept outside, all feeding outside. If I see her on the outdoor furniture, I tell her to get off. She isn't allowed on the furniture in our home, so it didn't take long for her to stay off the furniture outside.

Still a month to go till DVM visit about this issue.


ETA: the large amounts of #1 at rest do seem to be less frequent now.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

poofs said:


> A bit of an update.
> 
> With the help of the panties and human pads, I've been able to observe exactly when she pees. I'm seeing a correlation with excessive leaks at rest after she has been outside for a while by herself.
> 
> ...



I am quite interested in your post, as I my Sage has a problem vet can find nothing, but I have had in a diaper for almost 2 weeks, no problem she does not mind it. She is a skittish dog, but I whatch to make sure she goes


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

glorybeecosta said:


> I am quite interested in your post, as I my Sage has a problem vet can find nothing, but I have had in a diaper for almost 2 weeks, no problem she does not mind it. She is a skittish dog, but I whatch to make sure she goes



Thanks for your reply, there's comfort in knowing I'm not alone with our problems. I hope my posts are helpful for you too.


She hasn't had a large wee at rest since my last post, nor has she pee'd on our outdoor furniture since last post, but we're still getting scant amounts at rest.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

poofs said:


> Thanks for your reply, there's comfort in knowing I'm not alone with our problems. I hope my posts are helpful for you too.
> 
> 
> She hasn't had a large wee at rest since my last post, nor has she pee'd on our outdoor furniture since last post, but we're still getting scant amounts at rest.


I amy have mentioned I put Sage in a diaper about 2 weeks ago. She has to wear it while I work in the office. I take her out every 2 hours, but would sneak and pee under the table. It is great she now jumps on the sofa to have it taken off to go outside, and runs back in and stands for me to put it back on. No more carpet problems, I am going to use it for about 3 months to see if she will stop sneaking out. She will sleep from 8Pm to 8Am and never get me up. She will use Cayenne' potty patch when I am on the road and pin them in the kitchen and foyer. Beats me. Good luck. I just use the clath diaper and put pany liners in them. I forgot to take it off and was gone for 5 hours and she did wet in it then but my fault


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

Audrey is still peeing when at rest.

My doc took a urine sample on December 21.
We got the results back on the 27th.
On phone consultation he said all signs of crystals are gone- thanks to the Rx food.
I told him she is still leaking at rest so he put her on a Cipro, one pill a day for 30 days.


My dog does have some separation anxiety issues.
If I leave her outside by herself she wont go play in the yard, she just sits by the back door, eventually going to sleep and will literally pee on herself instead of walking a few feet out in the grass to go pee. But if my husband and I are outside with her she will run around and play and pee like a normal dog.

Just now I got up from my desk to get a drink. Audrey was sleeping on the floor behind my chair and when she got up to follow me in the kitchen I saw the puddle she had been laying in (I forgot to put her diaper on).

This is insanity. How the hell do I un-F my dog? Does Caesar Milan give consultations? I will pay him!!!

I'm soooo freaking frustrated!!!!!


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

poofs said:


> Audrey is still peeing when at rest.
> 
> My doc took a urine sample on December 21.
> We got the results back on the 27th.
> ...


I know how you feel Sage is better but I do not trust her. She sleeps 8 hours at night in bed with me. I went to bed early 7:30 Xmas eve and she cried to wake me up to go outside, so I cnnot figure this out at all, it i only when I am home in the office (taking her out every 2 hours). I have never had this before, so I guess she will be in diapers the rest of her life during the day. I say want to go out side and potty, she jumps on the sofa to have her diaper taken off, comes in and jumps back up to have it put on, I think she likes it, or something. She does not pee when she gets scared and she is skittish, but has improved a lot. I always found what he had done as the other dogs would go over and smell, and look at me, and I would look and sure enough there it was.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

This is not an easy situation.


I want to say though that it’s perfectly normal for a dog to not want to be outside by itself without necessairly having anxiety issues.

Poodles like to be with their people.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Dechi said:


> This is not an easy situation.
> 
> 
> I wants to say though that it’s perfectly normal for a dog to not want to be outside by itself without necessairly having anxiety issues.
> ...


I agree my girls run out and right back and I have to stand at the door where they can see me or Sage will run back in and do her business. Bella bless her heart she does her business and them comes back


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

We've been on the Cipro for 12 days, so 18 more to go. Nothing has really changed yet, still scant leaks and occasional large leaks at rest.

Doctor says continue the RX food.

However, yesterday my husband was playing fetch with her and when she returned the ball to him where he was standing on our back porch, she just stopped, dropped the ball, and starting peeing while standing up, didn't squat, just started peeing. He yelled at her and she trickled a trail across the concrete patio making her way to the grass.

I had been gone all morning and had just arrived home, I witnessed it. 

Some kind of neurotic separation anxiety?

My husband says she is aware when I'm gone, and kinda looks for me, and sleeps by the garage door sometimes- which she never does when I'm home.


Edit to add: He had left her outside while I was gone that day, nice weather.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

So sorry she is still having issues. Has the vet discussed the proin? We had an elderly terrier on it years ago. She wold just leak and they put her on this and it stopped. I have read that it has some side effects but we didn't experience any prob lem and the dog was quite old.


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

Yes, he talked to me about sphincter tightening drugs, he didn't use a brand name though. 

After this Cipro I figure his next suggestion will be some kind of visualization procedure like an ultrasound or some kind of scoping.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Thats probably a good idea as I would want to know why this is happening in such a young dog. any chance this could be spay incontinence? https://www.vetinfo.com/symptoms-of-spay-incontinence-in-dogs.html


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

besides Proin there is Incurin as well


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## poofs (Jan 6, 2016)

Mufar42 said:


> Thats probably a good idea as I would want to know why this is happening in such a young dog. any chance this could be spay incontinence? https://www.vetinfo.com/symptoms-of-spay-incontinence-in-dogs.html


Yeah, she was spayed at 6 months.





twyla said:


> besides Proin there is Incurin as well


Thanks for that info!


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