# Calcium/phosphate for spoo vs mini



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Do you have a mini puppy? As long as you feed a food that is approved by AAFCO for Growth or All Life Stages, I can't imagine that you would need to worry about maintaining a minimum level of calcium and phosphorus, but I don't know for certain. 

Where did the 1.3 come from?

If you have a standard poodle puppy, you might want to put some thought into feeding a food that doesn't have excessive calcium as this can encourage more rapid growth. Medium to large breeds need to grow slowly rather than rapidly to encourage proper orthopedic development. 1:1 ratio is the ideal that you strive to stay close to.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Do you have a mini puppy? As long as you feed a food that is approved for growth or all life stages I don't think you need to worry about calcium and phosphorus. Where did the 1.3 come from?


I think it's sometimes confusing as there are websites for raw feeding, and then there are the prepared kibbles and raw, etc. and I remember finding so much information it was hard to figure out what was correct. If you are raw feeding, I think this is more crucial, especially if it is homemade raw, right? A prepared food, like Acana which Sunny is on, is already correctly proportioned -- I do watch for the protein levels though.


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## whome? (Jun 18, 2013)

We have a 15 year old standard that I feed Wellness Super 5 Senior kibble and a small amount of canned Wellness Senior. We plan to get a spoo puppy and a mini puppy (stagger when we get them) and I am trying to figure out food in advance. It is a bit overwhelming. I am concerned about my senior's kidneys getting too much protein. When he was a puppy I fed him Large breed puppy formula until he was I think 1 1/2 years old. At the time I thought Eukanuba was a premium food so that is what he got. Now I know Eukanuba isn't that good.

I tried to read a bunch of old threads so I didn't bother everyone with the same questions but I got confused. I thought a PP said don't go above 1.3% for either calcium or phosphate.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Try here: DogAware.com Articles: Crash Course on Calcium (Dog World Magazine)


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Oooooh, is the OP asking about levels when balancing a homemade diet?

Yeah, with homemade raw I just kind of try to do my best....

With premade raw and dry kibble, it has to have the minimum amount of calcium and phosphorus otherwise the food would not be AAFCO approved. With a large breed, you do want to limit it to more moderate levels and ensure it's fed in a balanced manner.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

whome? said:


> We have a 15 year old standard that I feed Wellness Super 5 Senior kibble and a small amount of canned Wellness Senior. We plan to get a spoo puppy and a mini puppy (stagger when we get them) and I am trying to figure out food in advance. It is a bit overwhelming. I am concerned about my senior's kidneys getting too much protein. When he was a puppy I fed him Large breed puppy formula until he was I think 1 1/2 years old. At the time I thought Eukanuba was a premium food so that is what he got. Now I know Eukanuba isn't that good.


Unless your 15 year old standard has health issues that require otherwise, I personally wouldn't imagine you would need to feed him any differently than a regular adult. Again, just my personal opinion.

For a standard poodle puppy, if you are going to be feeding dry kibble, I would personally choose a quality adult (All Life Stages) food or a large breed puppy food that does not have excessive calcium levels. 

I have done some research recently because I plan to have puppies sometime this year and I want to raise them on a quality food:

Acana and Fromm are two of my favorite companies.

All of the Fromm Four-Star foods (AAFCO All Life Stages) are appropriate for growing standard poodles and adults. These come in grain free and grain inclusive. Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy is also appropriate (grain inclusive).

Acana Pacifica & Acana Wild Prairie (both grain free), Acana Duck and Bartlett Pear and Acana Chicken and Burbank Potato (grain inclusive) are appropriate. The latter two having perhaps slightly better cal/phos, but also being grain inclusive. I wouldn't hesitate about feeding any of these. That said, the rest of the Acana Regionals that I have not specifically listed are, in my opinion, too high in calcium for a large breed puppy.

Petcurean NOW Fresh makes a grain free Large Breed Puppy Food that looks decent.

Horizon Pulsar and Complete Large Breed Puppy look like they could potentially be a good choice, though as fed Calcium/Phosphorus is not disclosed (only Minimum) which means the overall values could be higher. I think this might also be the case for Petcurean, but I don't remember. I probably wouldn't worry too much about that, but for this reason the Fromm and Acana choices really stand out to me as the best!

My 2 (er..10 ) cents, for whatever it is worth.


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## whome? (Jun 18, 2013)

Just to clarify, I am planning to feed kibble (or kibble and some can-I might do raw later) Let's see if I have this correct. Basically, the calcium/phosphate maximum level doesn't matter for a mini because a mini is considered a small breed? And for a standard the calcium and phosphate levels should about match and not be over _____ percentage? Once the standard is grown then I don't worry about calcium/phosphate as long as food is approved by AAFCO.


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## momtymztu (Mar 27, 2012)

whome? said:


> At the time I thought Eukanuba was a premium food so that is what he got. Now I know Eukanuba isn't that good..


I just wanted to say that at that time Eukanuba WAS a premuim brand. Even 10 years ago when I had my pet supply store Eukanuba was still a good brand and way more expensive than anyone in my area was willing to pay for. The choices of dog food weren't what they are today and Eukanuba's quality didn't go down so much until they got bought out by a bigger company. That seems to be the way it goes with most things... It is sooo much more confusing now to pick a quality puppy food. Good luck with your research.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

whome? said:


> We have a 15 year old standard that I feed Wellness Super 5 Senior kibble and a small amount of canned Wellness Senior. We plan to get a spoo puppy and a mini puppy (stagger when we get them) and I am trying to figure out food in advance. It is a bit overwhelming. I am concerned about my senior's kidneys getting too much protein. When he was a puppy I fed him Large breed puppy formula until he was I think 1 1/2 years old. At the time I thought Eukanuba was a premium food so that is what he got. Now I know Eukanuba isn't that good.
> 
> I tried to read a bunch of old threads so I didn't bother everyone with the same questions but I got confused. I thought a PP said don't go above 1.3% for either calcium or phosphate.


What does your vet say regarding the proportions? I don't really agree with most vets recommendations on brands of foods though.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

whome? said:


> Just to clarify, I am planning to feed kibble (or kibble and some can-I might do raw later) Let's see if I have this correct. Basically, the calcium/phosphate maximum level doesn't matter for a mini because a mini is considered a small breed? And for a standard the calcium and phosphate levels should about match and not be over _____ percentage? Once the standard is grown then I don't worry about calcium/phosphate as long as food is approved by AAFCO.


_OH_! I just found something that a vet friend sent me from one of their textbooks. 

For puppies that will mature to <25 kgs, .7 -1.7 is the recommended % of calcium and .6-1.3 is the recommended % of phosphorus. The ideal ratio of calcium to phosphorus is: 1:1-1.8:1

For puppies that will mature to >25 kgs. (large breed puppies), .7 -1.2 is recommended % calcium and .6-1.1 is the recommended % of phosphorus. The ideal ratio of calcium to phosphorus is: 1:1-1.5:1.


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