# How long should a stomach bug last?



## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

Beau has had a stomach bug since last week. I think he got it from someone who walked their dog in the neighborhood and didn't clean up. His tests were all negative so he doesn't have anything like parvo. Nothing showed and we can't figure out what it is. All we know is other dogs are showing similar symptoms in the neighborhood - someone is spreading it. I try to clean up after my dog. He vomited for three days and started drinking a lot of water. Now he has the runs and it has been like that since last week. I called the vet but they haven't gotten back to me. We have an appointment scheduled for Friday anyway. He's been to the vet once, but I think he might need another appointment since it's been awhile.

I'm just a worried momma and giving him extra cuddles. :afraid:

When should the runs stop? How long does the stomach flu last in dogs?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

First, there is no such thing as a "stomach flu" in dogs or people. Influenza sometimes has GI signs, but there is no particular stomach flu. Rather there is a huge array of diverse microbes (bacteria, protozoa, viruses and helminthes) that can cause all sorts of illnesses including those fo the GI tract with the various signs you mentioned. How long the signs would be likely to last will vary depending on the underlying cause. For something like a norovirus in a person the illness is just a couple of days, for something like giardiasis in either a person or a dog the illness could be chronic and have subclinical periods interrupted by active illness. I wish I could give a more simple and direct answer, but there isn't enough evidence (in the form of test results) to do so.

That said it does sound like there is a reservoir host in your neighborhood who is inoculating puddles or other objects and surfaces if there are other dogs who are sick. The reservoir could be a neighborhood dog or it could be a sylvatic source. Knowing exactly what it is could provide clues as to what the likely reservoir is and how to control it.

I hope you have success nailing this down and that local animal control or other public infrastructure can resolve the issue. It sounds pretty unhappy for your pup and worrying for you.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

lily cd re said:


> First, there is no such thing as a "stomach flu" in dogs or people. Influenza sometimes has GI signs, but there is no particular stomach flu. Rather there is a huge array of diverse microbes (bacteria, protozoa, viruses and helminthes) that can cause all sorts of illnesses including those fo the GI tract with the various signs you mentioned. How long the signs would be likely to last will vary depending on the underlying cause. For something like a norovirus in a person the illness is just a couple of days, for something like giardiasis in either a person or a dog the illness could be chronic and have subclinical periods interrupted by active illness. I wish I could give a more simple and direct answer, but there isn't enough evidence (in the form of test results) to do so.
> 
> That said it does sound like there is a reservoir host in your neighborhood who is inoculating puddles or other objects and surfaces if there are other dogs who are sick. The reservoir could be a neighborhood dog or it could be a sylvatic source. Knowing exactly what it is could provide clues as to what the likely reservoir is and how to control it.
> 
> I hope you have success nailing this down and that local animal control or other public infrastructure can resolve the issue. It sounds pretty unhappy for your pup and worrying for you.


The vet said dogs can get gastroenteritis (noro virus or something along that lines). There's not much known, but dogs get what we get. I'm just worried about his runs. He has trouble going to the bathroom and I can tell he's uncomfortable. I just emailed the vet because I don't know if they got my voicemail (it's also Monday so they may be busy with weekend emergencies). If anything I guess we will run tests on Friday?

Is it normal to be a worried? I just know he's not himself. Poor little boy...


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I looked it up and I don't see any research showing that dogs get clinical signs of norovirus ("stomach flu") like humans.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

If you can't have him seen by your regular vet today, I would go to a different one tonight or tomorrow morning. This does not seem something to to wait for Friday.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Hopefully he feels better! Could be anything! Something he ate, stress, anything. There's a lot of bacterial things that can happen in dogs. I know last summer there was a lot of clostridium going around. It actually mimicked Parvo. If it doesn't clear up you can always do a diarrhea PCR test to see if that shows anything bacterial. You could also just do a round of metronidazole if your vet agrees and a bland diet and probiotics don't solve the issue. GI issues, acute or chronic, can be stressful when you can't figure out what it is!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I also don't think dogs get norovirus. If they did we would all be sick all the time bouncing it around between people and dogs since it is quite contagious. I also agree with streetcar that if you are that concerned about how really ill your puppy is I would not wait for a Friday appointment.


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## galofpink (Mar 14, 2017)

Gastroenteritis can be caused by infection with bacteria, viruses, parasites, or reactions to medications or new foods in dogs. Not sure about the norovirus thing, but gastro is just an umbrella term for inflammation of the GI tract. I had viral gastro once and that was not a pleasant experience. Sitting on the toilet with a bowl on my lap was exhausting. Longest 24 hours of my life, and I spent three days trying to get my strength up after. IF Beau has that, he's not going to be a lively fellow.

Not sure if this is sound advice, but something to consider: Have you withheld food at all to give his system a reset (usually a meal will do it)? After the withholding period, often a bland diet to rest the digestive tract is used. Since he has been vomiting and has had the runs for a considerable time, continue to make sure that he is hydrated. I'm not sure if electrolytes would be needed at this point, but perhaps something to ask the vet.

If you are really concerned, like others have said, find another vet appointment.

Hope Beau gets feeling better soon!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Good advice from galofpink. What I usually do with loose stools and/or vomiting is to fast a bit, so skip a meal, and then feed a bland diet until about 2 days *after* stools have returned to normal. I add in probiotics, too.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

galofpink said:


> Gastroenteritis can be caused by infection with bacteria, viruses, parasites, or reactions to medications or new foods in dogs. Not sure about the norovirus thing, but gastro is just an umbrella term for inflammation of the GI tract. I had viral gastro once and that was not a pleasant experience. Sitting on the toilet with a bowl on my lap was exhausting. Longest 24 hours of my life, and I spent three days trying to get my strength up after. IF Beau has that, he's not going to be a lively fellow.
> 
> Not sure if this is sound advice, but something to consider: Have you withheld food at all to give his system a reset (usually a meal will do it)? After the withholding period, often a bland diet to rest the digestive tract is used. Since he has been vomiting and has had the runs for a considerable time, continue to make sure that he is hydrated. I'm not sure if electrolytes would be needed at this point, but perhaps something to ask the vet.
> 
> ...


He is on chicken and I gave him some stella that's meant for sensitive stomachs (it's what he eats daily). He was on plain chicken and rice for awhile but he wasn't eating the rice so I stopped giving it to him. I fed him his regular food once and it didn't come out well. We have another vet in name. The breeder wanted us to see a holistic vet and my husband hated that vet, so we are searching around. This vet I contacted is a mobile vet and she doesn't have a secretary. She's usually pretty quick to respond though? The problem is we don't have a main vet right now...

I'm just worried. He's not throwing up anymore, but I can tell he hurts. He's been drinking A LOT so I guess that's good? 

If I don't hear back I'm going to call the vet we took him to that Saturday he was sick. That vet is actually my parent's vets. Problem is we don't want him treated with certain things (like shots or tick meds that regular vets do -) so that's why we went to a holistic vet. He is 8 so I guess we can get away with not doing that. I guess I'll just tell the vet what not to do? My husband and I did really like the one we went to that Saturday. Thankfully we have pet insurance so it's covered.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

mythrider said:


> He is on chicken and I gave him some stella that's meant for sensitive stomachs (it's what he eats daily). He was on plain chicken and rice for awhile but he wasn't eating the rice so I stopped giving it to him. I fed him his regular food once and it didn't come out well. We have another vet in name. The breeder wanted us to see a holistic vet and my husband hated that vet, so we are searching around. This vet I contacted is a mobile vet and she doesn't have a secretary. She's usually pretty quick to respond though? The problem is we don't have a main vet right now...
> 
> I'm just worried. He's not throwing up anymore, but I can tell he hurts. He's been drinking A LOT so I guess that's good?
> 
> If I don't hear back I'm going to call the vet we took him to that Saturday he was sick. That vet is actually my parent's vets. Problem is we don't want him treated with certain things (like shots or tick meds that regular vets do -) so that's why we went to a holistic vet. He is 8 so I guess we can get away with not doing that. I guess I'll just tell the vet what not to do? My husband and I did really like the one we went to that Saturday. Thankfully we have pet insurance so it's covered.


Drinking a lot is a little odd...I'd probably want to run some bloodwork when you get him into the vet. Things like Addisons can cause vomiting, diarrhea and excessive thirst. And yes, you should feel very comfortable telling the vet - sorry, no shots today.


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## galofpink (Mar 14, 2017)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Drinking a lot is a little odd...I'd probably want to run some bloodwork when you get him into the vet.




And drinking a lot can lead to electrolyte depletion, which, not to alarm you, can be bad as well. All the times my dogs have been sick they’ve never voluntarily increased their water consumption. Usually you are trying to make sure they drink enough.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

galofpink said:


> And drinking a lot can lead to electrolyte depletion, which, not to alarm you, can be bad as well. All the times my dogs have been sick they’ve never voluntarily increased their water consumption. Usually you are trying to make sure they drink enough.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He's 8 years old. I'm hoping its something that needs to pass. We are going to call the previous vet when I get off work. I'll check on the Addisons disease - he's a pretty healthy pup and this is literally the first thing he's gotten. He was a champion stud dog and the previous owner would run tests to make sure he could breed. He's neutered now. 

The previous owner said he's never caught anything, but I'm guessing that's because he wasn't around other dogs like in a dog park (only her own dogs). 

He literally just got a ton of bloodwork done (beginning of January and last week) and I'm sure they checked for stuff, but I'll have them run more tests since we have pet insurance.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

galofpink said:


> And drinking a lot can lead to electrolyte depletion, which, not to alarm you, can be bad as well. All the times my dogs have been sick they’ve never voluntarily increased their water consumption. Usually you are trying to make sure they drink enough.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He doesn't have a loss of appitite though. He started barking (which he never does unless he needs to alert us) for his morning meal. He was really hungry. He's always been a good eater and even this stomach thing hasn't made him a bad eater.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

mythrider said:


> He's 8 years old. I'm hoping its something that needs to pass. We are going to call the previous vet when I get off work. I'll check on the Addisons disease - he's a pretty healthy pup and this is literally the first thing he's gotten. He was a champion stud dog and the previous owner would run tests to make sure he could breed. He's neutered now.
> 
> The previous owner said he's never caught anything, but I'm guessing that's because he wasn't around other dogs like in a dog park (only her own dogs).
> 
> He literally just got a ton of bloodwork done (beginning of January and last week) and I'm sure they checked for stuff, but I'll have them run more tests since we have pet insurance.


At his age AD is unlikely, but being a poodle, having vomiting and diarrhea and drinking more than usual will make AD at least slightly pop into your head. But the good appetite is a good sign that AD is probably pretty far down on the bottom of the list. BTW, AD isn't something that is tested for prior to breeding. It's diagnosed when a dog becomes symptomatic. 

But - the reason for bloodwork now, even though he's had good bloodwork before, would be simply due to his age plus vomiting, diarrhea and extra thirst. Just to be sure that electrolytes are good and no sign of infection, etc.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

CharismaticMillie said:


> At his age AD is unlikely, but being a poodle, having vomiting and diarrhea and drinking more than usual will make AD at least slightly pop into your head. But the good appetite is a good sign that AD is probably pretty far down on the bottom of the list. BTW, AD isn't something that is tested for prior to breeding. It's diagnosed when a dog becomes symptomatic.
> 
> But - the reason for bloodwork now, even though he's had good bloodwork before, would be simply due to his age plus vomiting, diarrhea and extra thirst. Just to be sure that electrolytes are good and no sign of infection, etc.


He stopped vomiting. He was on an antibiotic. I forget the name of it. I think it helped the vomiting but caused more diarrhea. He's finished the meds so the diarrhea should be stopped? My parents said their dogs have been on that med and they were fine. I'll make up a list of questions for the vet when we see them. The good news is if anything we have that appointment on Friday. I think after the first appointment they will be easier to get a hold of (since they don't know him)? The other vet is open till 7 today and tomorrow so I'll make an appointment after work.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Probiotics could help at this point.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

mythrider said:


> He stopped vomiting. He was on an antibiotic. I forget the name of it. I think it helped the vomiting but caused more diarrhea. He's finished the meds so the diarrhea should be stopped? My parents said their dogs have been on that med and they were fine. I'll make up a list of questions for the vet when we see them. The good news is if anything we have that appointment on Friday. I think after the first appointment they will be easier to get a hold of (since they don't know him)? The other vet is open till 7 today and tomorrow so I'll make an appointment after work.


It's more common to prescribe antibiotics for diarrhea than for vomiting in dogs, and it's usually metronidazole. Metronidazole can do a nice job clearing up loose stools. It can treat clostridium infections and a variety of other causes of diarrhea.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

I rushed him to the vet because he was throwing up and had bloody diarrhea. They gave him fluids and antibiotics for the stomach. She said he’s hydrated so that’s good and he’s not in horrible tummy pain (directly after he vomited). I’ll still keep that appointment for Friday, but I’m glad I got him taken care of. She also thinks he may be sensitive to chicken and to feed him beef instead since his regular food is beef. Hopefully he will heal soon. I’m so worried about him...


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

She gave him sulfasalazine 4 pills of 1/4 dose of 500 mg. Hopefully it will help. Maybe I’ll put some pumpkin in his food?


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## marialydia (Nov 23, 2013)

Glad to hear you got to the vet. 

Pumpkin, or sweet potato might also help, but I still think some bland food is warranted until things settle. You could try some lean ground beef cooked with rice. My dogs have always loved rice -- you can cook it without salt or butter or oil. 

As for sweet potato, I often will nuke one, and give a small bit of the flesh (never the skin) to my dogs. They have all loved it. Again, naked, no salt no oil. Or canned pumpkin, not too much, just a tablespoon or so.

But if he won't eat just this you could mix it with some of his regular kibble -- it just provides some calories and nutrition without provoking a reaction.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

So sorry you are going through this. Asta has had a bit of the bug lately. Diarrhea, eating only about 1/2 his usual food even though I am putting the yummy cottage cheese topper on it. These things you need to monitor closely I have added pumpkin to his food also and this seems to have firmed up his stool.


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## galofpink (Mar 14, 2017)

Glad you took him to the vet just to be extra careful! I sure hope it clears up soon, always such a worry with explosions on both ends.

Pumpkin has always been a hit at our house for loose stool. Rocky loves rice as it is but Shae isn’t as fond of it but she likes it if you cook it in broth instead of water. I just make sure I buy the low sodium version whenever possible. Maybe Beau would like some broth rice blended with lean ground beef like marialydia suggested.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

I’m going to ask the vet about pumpkin. He got iv fluids because he threw up three times and pooped out blood. He’s hydrated but it was just a caution. He woke us up at 2 am to pee. He never does that. My dad yelled that I’m home from work but I’m really worried about him. Plus I have to get tested for Lyme disease today (another thing to worry about). I gave him 3 oz of ground beef and some orzo pasta (vet said wheat pasta so we figured orzo was OK - he finally ate it! He had blood in his stool this morning, but it had a TINY bit more form? I’m so worried about him. The vet will call this morning and I will ask about the pumpkin. I literally had to shove his pill down his throat with his favorite duck treat. I know I shouldn’t give him the duck treat but it’s the only way I could give him the pill. He finds a way to eat around things. Stubborn boy but I love him so much. 

He’s my baby that’s had babies. I just want him to feel better already!


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

CharismaticMillie said:


> mythrider said:
> 
> 
> > He stopped vomiting. He was on an antibiotic. I forget the name of it. I think it helped the vomiting but caused more diarrhea. He's finished the meds so the diarrhea should be stopped? My parents said their dogs have been on that med and they were fine. I'll make up a list of questions for the vet when we see them. The good news is if anything we have that appointment on Friday. I think after the first appointment they will be easier to get a hold of (since they don't know him)? The other vet is open till 7 today and tomorrow so I'll make an appointment after work.
> ...


He was on metronidazole for a week but now he has bloody stool so they’re treating that.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Glad you are going to the vet. When my dogs get upset tummies I put them on either boiled boneless, skinless chicken breast or ground lean beef and I mist it with rice that I boil in the same water which flavors it nicely and they gobble it up. No treats etc and I keep them strictly on this for 5 days . If their stool is good I gradually add kibble back to it. (you an smooch some of the ground beef together to give a pill). I would also have the vet test for giardia using the ELISA test.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

Mufar42 said:


> Glad you are going to the vet. When my dogs get upset tummies I put them on either boiled boneless, skinless chicken breast or ground lean beef and I mist it with rice that I boil in the same water which flavors it nicely and they gobble it up. No treats etc and I keep them strictly on this for 5 days . If their stool is good I gradually add kibble back to it. (you an smooch some of the ground beef together to give a pill). I would also have the vet test for giardia using the ELISA test.


I had to give a treat for him to take a pill. I literally had to shove it down his throat. We switched him to ground beef because his regular meal is beef. I make it like I do my tacos without seasoning/butter. He already got a stool and blood test. Nothing showed so it’s a virus of some sort. He has never been exposed to a stomach bug before because he was only around his own pack or in a crate with the breeder. Now he’s around other dogs in the common area (none in our house) so maybe it might take longer to heal?

I only gave him a treat with the pill because he refused chicken and beef. It took him a half hour to feed him a tiny pill. 

Last night he kept standing by the door so I put him in his crate and made him a den and eventually he stopped crying and fell back to sleep. He’s sleeping now. I know sure he’s exhausted. I think it’s a virus because a lot of dogs around us have something similar to him.

Maybe his immune system isn’t the strongest since he’s older and little?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Immune system function can decline with age, but not in a way that is likely to make it take longer to recover from run of the mill infections. Instead unusual illnesses are more likely as the person or animal can't do as efficient surveillance. This is part of why cancer is largely a disease of advanced age. Being little has no impact.

Mufar made a good point about doing an ELISA for giardiasis. Fecal exams for it may not always be positive even if the individual is infected.

I want to reemphasize an early part of the discussion here which is that many dogs in your area have been similarly ill. If there is a domestic or sylvatic reservoir inoculating puddles, lawns, etc. it needs to be eliminated.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

lily cd re said:


> Immune system function can decline with age, but not in a way that is likely to make it take longer to recover from run of the mill infections. Instead unusual illnesses are more likely as the person or animal can't do as efficient surveillance. This is part of why cancer is largely a disease of advanced age. Being little has no impact.
> 
> I want to reemphasize an early part of the discussion here which is that many dogs in your area have been similarly ill. If there is a domestic or sylvatic reservoir inoculating puddles, lawns, etc. it needs to be eliminated.


Thanks for clarifying it’s not his immune system. He has been to the vet three times in a month. I don’t think there is - I personally think it’s sick dogs that are getting others sick. That’s what the vet implied. The vet didn’t seem too worried last night. She said he has energy and is keeping hydrated. He seems to know how to take care of his body. He didn’t have a fever and didn’t scream when his belly was examined.

I live in a gated community. There are common grounds where people walk their dogs. He’s not directly in contact with other dogs in the house, but he goes on walks.

Hopefully the antibiotics will help and the vet said pumpkin is okay so when I go get more food, I will get the pumpkin packs. The pet store has ones specifically for dogs.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

As an FYI all of my dogs get pumpkin every day. I have an auto ship order on Amazon for cans of organic pumpkin. 

My point about figuring out the reservoir for this is to interrupt the chain of transmission. If there is a dog that is an asymptomatic carrier (let's say of giardiasis, although this may be viral) then that dog should be identified and treated to prevent further or recurring illnesses. Treatment for viruses isn't possible, but is for bacteria and protozoans. Since you live in a gated community it shouldn't be that hard to get a message out to all the owners with dogs telling them about what has been happening and urging them to take appropriate measures.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

lily cd re said:


> As an FYI all of my dogs get pumpkin every day. I have an auto ship order on Amazon for cans of organic pumpkin.
> 
> My point about figuring out the reservoir for this is to interrupt the chain of transmission. If there is a dog that is an asymptomatic carrier (let's say of giardiasis, although this may be viral) then that dog should be identified and treated to prevent further or recurring illnesses. Treatment for viruses isn't possible, but is for bacteria and protozoans. Since you live in a gated community it shouldn't be that hard to get a message out to all the owners with dogs telling them about what has been happening and urging them to take appropriate measures.


The main problem is I can’t get all dog owners to do that. I really think it’s going around in my entire state and just happened to hit my community. I think he needs to heal - not that it’s reoccurant? I don’t talk to my neighbors. It’s been brought up in HOA but there’s not much they can do. If people don’t pick up their poop, you can’t really force them?
I hope it’s just going around in Maryland and needs to pass. The vet didn’t think it was serious like that though?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

If your HOA has rules about picking up then there should be a penalty for not complying I would think. Somebody who consistently doesn't pick up should be reported to the board by as many people as notice it. My mom lives in a gated town home style condo community. They have a strict 5 mph speed limit and speed bumps to help control things. For a while she had a silver Volvo sedan and apparently one day some guy in a baseball cap was seen speeding on the property in a silver Volvo sedan. The condo board was pretty quick on the button to fine my mom (who at the time was probably 79) for speeding. She had a very hard time convincing them she hadn't loaned her car to a baseball cap wearing guy. My brother never wears baseball caps and all the younger drivers in my family who might have lead feet on the gas pedal are girls. The point being if there are rules there are probably board members who would be happen to have the chance to enforce them.

The reall bottom line though is that your little one gets better asap.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

Yeah the next meeting is beginning of March. I missed the last meeting because we had just moved in. Maybe I’ll go and try to bring it up? The problem is I don’t know who doesn’t clean up their poop. I just know if I can pick it up, I will clean up mine. There’s not much you can do with liquid but if it’s formed you can pick it up.

He has another vet appointment on Friday but I’m worried. He is tired today but good thing is he has half the day to rest. I stayed home 2 extra hours with him and he still had the dog walker and my husband. I let the dog walker know he’s still sick and went to the vet. I’m just worried. He’s my first dog of my own. My parents have had emergencies when we had dogs growing up (boxers) but it’s scary on your own...


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

I’m so worried about him. I don’t think it’s Giardia only because he doesn’t have all the signs. Also they tested his poop. The pood was a bit darker today but probably because we abruptly changed to beef (under vets orders). He had pooped in his crate but no vomit. Then again I had been taking him out at 4 (when I come home an hour later - schedule was messed up). He’s sleeping now. He seems more tired. He went to the vet yesterday, so when should I make another trip? I have a scheduled appointment on Friday. I hope this medicine kicks in soon. It’s only the first dosage. I wonder if he has something like HGE. The good thing is he did get fluids and is hydrated (we are treating him). I’m so worried about him.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I feel so badly for you and your dog. Of course, you’re worried. Good karma your way that Beau recovers quickly and that the Lyme test is negative!


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I do hope he is feeling better soon - poor baby, this has gone on a long time.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

I was so worried about beau by the way that I forgot I needed to fast for my lymes test. So I need to wait till Friday. Beau and I can be sick buddies together. I’m still fighting my own infection because my lymph node is swollen. So he’s taking my mind off of me which I’m glad.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

On a plus side he LOVES his new doggy bed! He is currently rolling around in the bed


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

Back to the vet this afternoon. He didn't eat anything this morning. He tried to eat grass and literally I did everything and he REFUSED his pill for an hour. The vet will do an X-Ray. That's the last test we have to do. I think it's upper GI now, so hopefully these meds will help. I just want him to feel better. He slept in his new doggy bed all night. I think he's slowly getting better, but he needs to regain his strength. Only thing I'm worried about is him refusing the pill and food...


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I haven't kept up with all of the comments - has he had bloodwork done?


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I haven't kept up with all of the comments - has he had bloodwork done?


Yes he did. Bloodwork and stool test - all negative and healthy. I communicated with the previous owner who is a breeder (Mary Anne DiRocco) and she said he’s never had something like this and I should insist on panacure to treat giardia just in case. I really do think it’s upper GI issue like HGE or something. Just the way he’s acting... he’s getting an X-ray today but I doubt he ate anything bad. He’s pretty smart and knows what to eat (although he tried to eat grass this morning but that is understandable). It’s been like 10 days now. I’m worried. I think he’s somewhat better but now he’s lethargic and his tummy hurts so he’s not eating.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

mythrider said:


> Yes he did. Bloodwork and stool test - all negative and healthy. I communicated with the previous owner who is a breeder (Mary Anne DiRocco) and she said he’s never had something like this and I should insist on panacure to treat giardia just in case. I really do think it’s upper GI issue like HGE or something. Just the way he’s acting... he’s getting an X-ray today but I doubt he ate anything bad. He’s pretty smart and knows what to eat (although he tried to eat grass this morning but that is understandable). It’s been like 10 days now. I’m worried. I think he’s somewhat better but now he’s lethargic and his tummy hurts so he’s not eating.


If bloodwork didn't show any abnormalities, then HGE is unlikely. Not sure I'd give panacur to a lethargic dog who isn't eating and had a negative giardia elisa. I had someone tell me that once and it turned out my dog was very acutely ill with something else. The last thing the pup needed was a dewormer for her body to also have to deal with.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Panacur is a dewormer. Flagyl would cover for _Giardia_, which is a protozoan. If an ELISA for giardiasis was negative then it isn't giardiasis. If it was only a fecal exam then I would not be sure that there isn't giardiasis since the test for it in a fecal is a little different than the usual fecal for helminthes.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

lily cd re said:


> Panacur is a dewormer. Flagyl would cover for _Giardia_, which is a protozoan. If an ELISA for giardiasis was negative then it isn't giardiasis. If it was only a fecal exam then I would not be sure that there isn't giardiasis since the test for it in a fecal is a little different than the usual fecal for helminthes.


Panacur, fenbendazole, is actually better at treating giardia than Flagyl. It's considered the most effective treatment. https://www.capcvet.org/guidelines/giardia/


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

They ran another elisa test and it’s negative. He’s still getting treatment at the vet. He didn’t eat today.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

I am worried with you. Saying prayers for Beau.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Article: Dogs with Diarrhea - Campylobactor vs. Parvovirus - Greenbank Animal Hospital, Barrhaven, Ontario


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Let us know what the xray shows! Best of luck. And request a fecal PCR if nothing comes up! The PCR looks for E.coli, Campylobacter, Clostridium, Salmonella, Cryptosporidium, parvo, giardia and coronavirus.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Let us know what the xray shows! Best of luck. And request a fecal PCR if nothing comes up! The PCR looks for E.coli, Campylobacter, Clostridium, Salmonella, Cryptosporidium, parvo, giardia and coronavirus.


He’s older so I doubt parvo. He’s getting an X-ray since they did the fecal and Elisa test.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

mythrider said:


> He’s older so I doubt parvo. He’s getting an X-ray since they did the fecal and Elisa test.


Right....parvo is obviously extremely unlikely, but it just so happens to be a part of the PCR test. The fecal PCR test is *NOT* the same as the fecal test your vet ran. It is a completely different type of test. It is a comprehensive diarrhea panel, a polymerase chain reaction test that looks for DNA of specific organisms. When dealing with a diarrhea issue, it's standard to start with a typical fecal + giardia elisa. If it continues and no reason can be found, a PCR is a good next step because it provides a lot more information specifically about bacterial causes of diarrhea. Here is an example of a fecal PCR result from a girl of mine who had bloody diarrhea:


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

We told them to run as many tests as they can. He’s relatively healthy besides this episode.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

mythrider said:


> We told them to run as many tests as they can. He’s relatively healthy besides this episode.


Well, that is a little vague. But, I do admittedly tend to be pretty involved in the diagnostic mysteries that involve my own dogs. If it were my dog, I'd ask specifically for a PCR if the fecal + elisa and xray + bloodwork all lead nowhere. But it's your dog, your call, of course. 

Hopefully he will be back to his usual good health soon!


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

CharismaticMillie said:


> mythrider said:
> 
> 
> > We told them to run as many tests as they can. He’s relatively healthy besides this episode.
> ...


My husband is there with him. I am stuck working (already took too many days off). I’m praying it’s just some horrible bug and he needs to fast and get fluids to flush it out?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

mythrider said:


> My husband is there with him. I am stuck working (already took too many days off). I’m praying it’s just some horrible bug and he needs to fast and get fluids to flush it out?


Maybe...fluids will definitely be good for him!


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

So they tested him for everything, but now he's back there for an hour for addisons. The doctor says he probably doesn't have it, but wants to make sure since he's in the age mark. I just want my Beau to get better. 

Btw he was a champion stud dog. He has a very strong and large family line - I sometimes wonder if people on here have his children  Beau was her prize pup that bred with Dora and produced many champion babies. I'm so proud of him and just want him to feel good.


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## galofpink (Mar 14, 2017)

We've been talking 'bugs, bugs, bugs' - I'm not saying that it isn't, but what about diet?

Got thinking...I brought Shae home March 29 and started a slow transition to Orijen 3 or 4 days later. She was perfectly fine and then all of a sudden explosive diarrhea started on May 26, almost two months later. So it took a considerable time for her system to not be able to tolerate that food. I fasted and reintroduced, no luck. Fasted, introduced Acana, no luck. Every time I gave her chicken, rice and pumpkin, she firmed up, so I knew she could tolerate chicken and rice. After Orijen and Acana didn't work I went the complete opposite direction - grains included and no pulses like peas, chickpeas, lentils. Fasted introduced Fromm food *with *grain. Cleared up in less than 24 hours; it was night and day after struggling for almost two weeks. After she had stabilized for a while, I switched her to a grain free Fromm diet and digestively we were fine on that. At 11 mos old, I switched back to Acana and so far we are doing fine with it, though we've only been on it for about 6 weeks.

So for Beau,
Did you continue feeding what the breeder previously fed him?
Besides the vet recommendation to go to beef this week, have you changed his diet recently?
Did he seem like he could tolerate the ground beef, on it's own? How about the pasta.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

galofpink said:


> We've been talking 'bugs, bugs, bugs' - I'm not saying that it isn't, but what about diet?
> 
> Got thinking...I brought Shae home March 29 and started a slow transition to Orijen 3 or 4 days later. She was perfectly fine and then all of a sudden explosive diarrhea started on May 26, almost two months later. So it took a considerable time for her system to not be able to tolerate that food. I fasted and reintroduced, no luck. Fasted, introduced Acana, no luck. Every time I gave her chicken, rice and pumpkin, she firmed up, so I knew she could tolerate chicken and rice. After Orijen and Acana didn't work I went the complete opposite direction - grains included and no pulses like peas, chickpeas, lentils. Fasted introduced Fromm food *with *grain. Cleared up in less than 24 hours; it was night and day after struggling for almost two weeks. After she had stabilized for a while, I switched her to a grain free Fromm diet and digestively we were fine on that. At 11 mos old, I switched back to Acana and so far we are doing fine with it, though we've only been on it for about 6 weeks.
> 
> ...


He’s on the same food the breeder gave him. Natures variety half raw beef with healthy cravings chicken toppings and some Stella. He’s been eating the same food his whole life. She used to feed him some raw like once a week (bravo raw). He’s on grain free everything. The treats he gets are Plato duck and earth animal stix - which he’s always tolerated.

He’s currently still at the vet for another hour while they test for Addison’s.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Good thought galofpink. Lily and Peeves ate Blue Buffalo large breed chicken and brown rice for years and our vet always remarked that whatever we were feeding them was working and to keep with it. Then in 2016 both of the older dogs started having urinary crystals and Javelin who was now also eating the adult BB had horrible ears. The short version of the story was that we did NutriScan testing on all three dogs and each of them had various intolerances or sensitivities to things that were ingredients in BB. Their problem foods had all sorts of incompatibilities and overlaps that made it impossible to find a commercial food that all three dogs could eat. This is why I cook.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

He has never been on blue buffalo. My parents have their dogs on Orijen and I get mad because the little one needs wet food, but they never listen to me. So I did a lot of research for Beau and just so happens the food I chose, he was already on! I might switch him to wet food when he gets his teeth pulled next time since he doesn't have many teeth left. I only ever have him on Instinct, Nature's Variety half raw kibble.

Beau was really tired last night. He hasn't pooped since Tuesday. I guess that means his stomach finally emptied? He's on an appetizing med and two other meds to help with his stomach (Ironically my husband is on one of the meds but a way higher of dosage). The tests all came back negative. We are waiting on Addisons and like one other test which he's going to call me today about. Last night at 10 pm he had the zoomies but he was so out of it that he was basically walking up to me and saying "pet me mommy!" till he fell asleep. 

He has another appointment on Friday. Good news is we met our high pet insurance deductible! Also he's very healthy besides this. I'm hoping once his stomach is rested for a day or so, he will be better. He knows I'm trying my best to care for him. He snuggled like a teddy bear in my arms all night. I let him rest at home today. I'm hoping the rest will help him. Doctor seems to think it's still a horrible bug that his body is having trouble getting rid of but needs to run it's course (might take 10+ days). 

Hopefully that's the case? Hopefully his next poop is better? :afraid:


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I think you missed my main point (understandable since you are worried). It wasn't about Blue Buffalo, but foods of all kinds collectively as potential sources of intolerance and/or sensitivity. Intolerances and sensitivities can develop at any time in a dog's (or person's) life and if he is testing negative for all sorts of infections the next logical thing to investigate are food intolerances and/or sensitivities and to do so in a systematic, not blind guessing, fashion.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

lily cd re said:


> I think you missed my main point (understandable since you are worried). It wasn't about Blue Buffalo, but foods of all kinds collectively as potential sources of intolerance and/or sensitivity. Intolerances and sensitivities can develop at any time in a dog's (or person's) life and if he is testing negative for all sorts of infections the next logical thing to investigate are food intolerances and/or sensitivities and to do so in a systematic, not blind guessing, fashion.


I'll keep an ear out. He has a vet appointment on Friday and I will ask if he doesn't get better. He seemed to be a tiny bit better today, just exhausted which is understanding.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

Omg I’ve never been so excited to see dog poop! It’s forming! I think not pooping for a day helped!


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I hope this is the first sign that this digestive problem has resolved and he's getting back to good health.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

He was hungry today too. This is his “Where’s the food, daddy and mommy?” Face.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Excellent news! I would keep on with feeding a bland diet little and often for a while longer, though. Personal experience indicates it can be wise - I won't go into further detail!


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

He threw up again but his poops are becoming normal. We had a vet appointment anyway today.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

So we saw a new vet for a different opinion. She went to cornell and has been really helpful over the phone. She thinks he might have acute pancreatitis (which is common in poodles). Test results come back tomorrow. I just hope we figure out what it is. She wants him on a prescription diet.


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## marialydia (Nov 23, 2013)

So glad you got a second (third?) opinion. My late Jupiter had pancreatitis that would flare up if he ate any animal fat. He was on a prescription diet for a short while but I was able to transition him to regular kibble (Fromm). He did well on this for many years.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

Glad your dog was okay! Hopefully beau will be once we get our prescription food! 12 Days is too long for a stomach bug! I think the stomach bug caused this because he doesn’t normally eat anything unless we give it to him.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Kudos for seeking a third opinion. This has gone on way too long and must be so stressful for you and Beau. Hope it resolves with his prescription diet, ASAP!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Hoping the Vet has the answer to your problem! Poor Beau!


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I too am glad you're going for a second opinion.

My tpoo years ago developed pancreatitis in her teens from eating cat food kibble as treats - it's too rich, too high in fat and protein. Back then they didn't have "prescription" dog food choices so my vet gave me instruction to homecook her meals. She lived to be 20 years old.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

Good to know he can live a long time! Prescription food comes today! He’s on hills for now. I just want him to get nutrients because it’s been 3 weeks


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

We think that was the answer - pancreatitis. The test showed up negative but I think he healed himself for the most part. He’s feeling better and the prescription food is helping his poop form! I’ve never been so happy to see poop before! He’s still healing, but much better. We are waiting for one more test result which they said would take more than a week. I’m switching him to a healthy weight food (instinct chicken) when he’s off the prescription. Thankfully he hasn’t thrown up since two Fridays ago (that day he last saw the vet) so I think that medicine and food really did help him!


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

I am so happy to hear that he is doing so well. Instinct is a great food and he should do really well on it. You just MADE my day with this good news!


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

He was already on instinct and does great on it. He’s just switching the type (low fat food)


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

LOVE good news! I hope you have found the answer to his problem!!!


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