# I am going to kill my dog!!!!!



## MsVinaaa (Mar 29, 2010)

He always runs out of the door. He is three years old and I've been trying for the last three years to train him not to! I do not know what else to do.

I am going to kill him! I've brought him to obedience classes (cost me hundreds) and I make him sit and let me walk out of the door first (while he's on a leash, of course). I treat him when he listens and he usually listens when it's just me and him, but when my fiance is around or my mom or anyone he will not obey for the life of me. He will run outside and wander and on top of that he will not come back! I have to go out and look for him. I tell him to sit, stay, come and he just keeps going on his merry way wandering around on the streets! He has put himself in COUNTLESS situations where he runs around the neighborhood and I'm running around with no shoes or anything because I have to bolt after him! I do not want him to get run over or get picked up by some stranger. 

In addition to that he is SUPER friendly, so he will go to ANYONE. I do not want to lose him.

I do not know what to do and I am really frustrated to the point where I don't even want to deal with him anymore. I absolutely think it's a leadership issue but I don't know what to do now. It makes me want to cry! NOTHING seems to work with him! Please help. 

(sorry everything is all over the place. I just got back from chasing him all the way down the block in barefoot in the dark because I went to open the door for my mom and he jetted out the door.)

Oh and I was never able to train him to walk with out a leash. I do bring him on daily walks!

Anyway, I need help. I do not want to give up.


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## stealthq (Aug 4, 2011)

If I had a dog that was that determined to bolt, the first thing I would do is make sure I had him confined in a room/x-pen/crate or leashed before I opened the door. Every time. There would be no chance to dart out.

If you feel you need to train him not to do this, I think you are going to need help. At the least, you need one of the people that causes your dog to want to bolt to agree to help you train him and proof him. If you have been able to train him properly when you're alone, try doing your original training again, but this time with your helper as extra pressure. It may be that he just needs (safe) practice.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Yeah I agree with stealthq, the first you need to do is keep him safe. And you too! It's dangerous for you to run down the street in the dark too! So first of all, I'd keep an x-pen set up with your dog in it, just blocking the hallway or whatever access your house has to the front door. It's worth the hassle of letting yourself in and out of it, to not have to chase him down the street in the dark. Then, I'd work seriously on down stays. I know others with more experience will chime in but seriously? Down stays are amazing tools; once the dog learns to be in a long down stay, short ones that will eventually allow you to open and close the door without him bolting are a breeze. Anyway, I know what you mean because my dogs have problems that I admit I KNOW how to fix, but it hasn't been important enough to me yet to really work on. I guarantee that you already know what to do, you don't even need more expensive obedience sessions; it's just a matter of you (and me!) practicing, practicing, practicing what we already know how to do! Try this: imagine that it's going to take 200 repetitions before your dog gets the hang of not bolting out the door, and then practice, practice, practice those down stays while you come and go out of the door, and then while others do it. He can learn it, it just takes a lot, lot, lot, lot of practicing. Maybe view it like doing the dishes or having a shower or something...maybe it's not the thing you feel like doing on any given day, but you need to do it. So might as well schedule 15 minutes out of every day to work on it. Wishing you the best! I know you can do it!!


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## Sawyersmomma (May 28, 2012)

I totally get your frustration! My situation is different from yours, but still involved countless nights of bawling wondering if it's worth it.
First off, don't even consider training him to walk without a leash. Yes it's nice when dogs do it, but it's not more important than the safety of your dog.
I would set up a baby gate, or some kind of "fence" to not let him able to go to the front door. Never let him out without a leash. That includes potty breaks.
So if the front door opens, he'll be blocked from going out. And even if he sneaks past that, chances are the door won't be opened at that moment.
If you cant, anytime you know you're going to open the door, either put him on a leash or stick him in a room with the door closed.
I know it'll be difficult. and a VERY long/slow process, but even if he never gets it, he still loves you! There are things I find SO frustrating about my spoo, sometimes I just want to give up, but I find there really is more good about him than bad. No matter how frustrating the bad parts are, I know he makes up for it. Again, it's a long process. Requires consistency which is actually pretty difficult. But your dog will make it worth it. And you can make it through!! PM me if you just want to vent. sometimes you just need to get it out, and then you can sort of start fresh again:act-up:
Oh! I also remember being taught that saying a command instead of just no, should influence how he behaves.
As someone else mentioned with the down stay, you could really just have a sit too. When you're about to open the door and say it, it gives him something to do instead of just a "no, I don't want you to do this"


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## MsVinaaa (Mar 29, 2010)

I guess it's the only thing I can do. I would love for him to be able to be without a leash and free when we are at the park or something.

It's like... what's wrong with me? My friends' dogs likes to stay by their side, while mine likes to wander and get away.

Thank you guys!


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## Sawyersmomma (May 28, 2012)

MsVinaaa said:


> It's like... what's wrong with me? My friends' dogs likes to stay by their side, while mine likes to wander and get away.


I know it's frustrating when you see all these people with their "perfect" dogs. And they don't even work to get the dog to behave, yet you work your butt off and still, no sign of progress. But until your dog learns, you just have to accept him for who he is. Still continue with training, but who knows maybe it's just something he won't pick up. Still gotta love him.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Very good advice on management, and teaching a different, non compatible behaviour, and the importance of consistent, persevering repetition.

I do wonder, though, just WHY he is so desperate to run? Is he neutered - could he be getting the scent of a bitch in heat? Is it a wonderful game of keep away, with you in pursuit? Is it the only opportunity he gets to run off leash? If you understand why he dashes off, perhaps you can find other ways to give him whatever it is he craves - or to remove the craving!


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Get this product and duct tape the electronic barrier to your front door.

Amazon.com: Innotek Zones Instant Pet Proofing Barrier ZND-1200: Pet Supplies

You can get an extra barrier for each door that is a problem.

Once he's been taught the barrier, you can use it WITH MANAGEMENT AND TRAINING to teach him he cannot go through the door without you.

Start the training on an interior door. You can find the clicker training instructions in the book Quick Clicks (excellent book).

Move this to the exterior door but use the zone barrier for safety. You should be able to teach him that he can never go through the door - even if it is open and he is unattended.

I understand your frustration with an escape artist! I had one. She was an amazing, highly trained dog. But she get could out of crates, jump HIGH fences and would even run through screen doors and windows. Sometimes I had to leave work more than once a day to pick her up from wherever she disappeared to. She stopped when I DRAMATICALLY increased her physical and mental exercise level. Taking a dog for a walk is not enough. Swimming, chasing, jumping, agility, weight pulling, fetching, discdogging, canicross, flyball. So many activities - I did all of these with my former escapist.

I think you have a brilliantly smart dog who needs a lot more exercise and structure. Use the zone barrier for safety while you get everything else put in place. It waill take some time, but with diligence and good training, you should have this problem solved.

I have a lot more ideas and methods for this problem, but try the advice posted in this thread first.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

MsVinaaa said:


> I guess it's the only thing I can do. I would love for him to be able to be without a leash and free when we are at the park or something.
> 
> It's like... what's wrong with me? My friends' dogs likes to stay by their side, while mine likes to wander and get away.
> 
> Thank you guys!


Your dog finds the environment more rewarding than you. (This is not an insult  ) It's a combination of you/how you interact with your dog, your dog's temperament, and your environment. You CAN change this so some degree.

What is the environment? Everything except you. Freedom to run. Neighbors that give treats, or other food sources. Animals to hunt. Smells to chase. Mud to roll in. The environment is intrinsically rewarding.

What about you? You sound frustrated and disappointed with your dog (I don't blame you). But this will color every interaction with your dog and he is VERY aware.

You can control yourself and you can work on controling the environment. You can do a little catering to your dog's temperament as well.

Go to a "dead" place. Ideally a huge, SILENT room with no animal activity in it. We have an old tire factory that has been turned into offices and retail, but there are many huge, empty rooms. Bring a high value toy that is freshly washed (to mask scent). Or bring high value treats in a glass container (to mask scent). Keep them totally hidden. Your dog should think you have nothing on you. Take your dog to the "dead space", let him off leash, sit down in the middle of the floor and WAIT. Do not say anything. Do not move. Do not fidget or tap. (Bring a book to read?) Ignore your dog. Don't bother watching him. When he comes to you, give the high value reward. Preferably a toy. Don't just give it to him, whip it out, play tug, play fetch. Take the toy away and go back to your book. Repeat. Your dog will soon figure out the smells of the room and give up on the barren environment. Then he will turn to soliciting attention from you. (If your dog runs off with toys, this activity needs to be done on a lone line.)

Repeat this over several days. Try new dead places.

Now go to a dead space and teach recall. A real-life recall is different than a come command in obedience class!!! A recall demand that your dog _breaks it's attention away from something fascinating, turns to look at you,_ and then comes to you. They don't teach the italicized part in obedience class and it is important. Here is a video on getting started.

(By the way, the dog in the video is my former escapist dog. See how attentive she became?!)






Repeat this exercise 100 times every day, but don't do it more than 10 times in a row. Start in a dead space, then a boring space (living room, no one home, TV off), and work within your house, adding distractions. In about 2 weeks, you should be able to take it outside on leash.

Now go back to the environment. If he has a strong orientation to the environment could be impossible to remove it. BUT you can work with it. Take him out on a nature trail with a long leash and let him be a dog. When he is not-very-distracted, recall him and HUGE HUGE reward.

I'm going to take a break in the development of a recall and switch to leave it and boundaries which are an application of the recall. If I can recall my dog, I can easily teach a boundary. For example, I can teach my dog to stay within 20 feet of me at all times without a leash if I give my dog freedom and recall it everytime it is 20 feet away. It is minutes before the dog chooses to stay within the 20 foot bubble.

Leave it is also an application of recall, as I am recalling the dog's attention (and nose) from a distracting item. Usually it's a piece of food, but for your dog it is the front door!

I'm sorry this is long and a little bit unorganized, but I hope it helps you have a better relationship/bond with your dog.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

A place command would work also. You can countercondition the cue of you touching the doorknob to mean "go to your bed and stay". You go to the door and your dog trots off to his bed, preferable far away from the door.

Voraus would be a similar alternative. Voraus is a german command that means "leave the room". Get out and stay out! I teach this to my dogs for mealtime manners - they are not allowed to put a foot over the threshold to the dining roon during a meal and they have to stay out. This is a very useful command for more than mealtimes.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I like all that advice, T - except using the electronic barrier. I can see it turning too easily into having a dog that is afraid to go through a door at all. I knew a pony many years ago, who burnt his nose on an electric fence (not my field, and not my fence). Nothing, but nothing, would get him past the line of that fence when it was taken down - we had to remove a chunk of the fixed fence to get him out of the field. This sounds like a dog prone to learning from his environment, and not always absorbing the lesson his human intends. I would go for less risky methods of managing exits - there are plenty of them!


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## MsVinaaa (Mar 29, 2010)

We have a back yard. I take him for daily walks. I bring him to the dog park once a week. 

I think it's the different scents. That's the only thing he is interested in really is sniffing things. We could go to a friends house or to the dog park and he'd rather sniff the vicinity than play with the other dogs and although he does try to get other peoples' attention by trying to lick them, it stops with in the next two minutes and he'll be going back to sniffing everything.

Yes he is neutered. I think I will just have to get a gate and just have him behind it every time I open the door. He has ALWAYS been like this. I've had him since he was two months and NEVER (even while he was a puppy) would he follow me or come to me if he isn't on a leash >,<

Thank you all for your help!


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

MsVinaaa said:


> He always runs out of the door. He is three years old and I've been trying for the last three years to train him not to! I do not know what else to do.
> 
> What size poodle? I missed that.
> 
> ...


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

Poodles are really active dogs. When I lived in town, I lived on nearly an acre and my poodles had access to more than half of it. I took them to the dog park several times a week, it was nearly 80 acres, they ran. Hard. Fast. In addition, Vic and I were active in search and rescue and spent between 8 and 12 hours each week training and in training scenarios. 

It could be that your dog needs more exercise/stimulation. But.. here's the deal. If you can find something to engage their minds, it frequently tires them just as much as physical activity. As far as physical activity tiring them.. well it doesn't. It will tire an out of shape poodle, however if a poodle is in shape and gets regular physical activity, then it increases, all it does is make them have even higher activity needs. Really. Happens at a cellular level, they build more "mitochondria" in their muscles, which are the energy powerhouses. On research done on the huskies who run the Iditarod Sled Dog Race in Alaska, they have found that many are in better shape when the race is over than they were when the race started. The Iditarod dogs are extreme dog athletes, but you would think that a race like that would make them tired.. not amp them up even more!

Another thought--what kind of a leash are you using? Please tell me that it's not a flexi! If it is, get rid of it. Get a regular leash for walking and get a long line (long leash, 20+ feet, regular leash handle, regular clip on the collar, if you can't find one at a dog place, they sell them at horse stores, usually under 10 bucks a piece.. unless he's a toy.. then you need to ask a toy person.. but please don't use a flexi!) for playing at the dog park until he is under control.

Anyway, I need help. I do not want to give up.[/QUOTE]


One last suggestion, you may want to go to Sue Eh's website, she has great techniques that have worked on some really tough behavioral issues. 

Good luck to you!
Darla


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

fjm said:


> I like all that advice, T - except using the electronic barrier. I can see it turning too easily into having a dog that is afraid to go through a door at all. I knew a pony many years ago, who burnt his nose on an electric fence (not my field, and not my fence). Nothing, but nothing, would get him past the line of that fence when it was taken down - we had to remove a chunk of the fixed fence to get him out of the field. This sounds like a dog prone to learning from his environment, and not always absorbing the lesson his human intends. I would go for less risky methods of managing exits - there are plenty of them!


Yes, that is a risk. But I would rather have my dog afraid of the door than to have him stolen (to what end??!), killed by a car, or slowly starve to death. It's such a dangerous behavior, a little fear is a good thing.

A fear that comes from a known, specific cause is pretty easy to fix later also. 

I believe that fear is/can be good. Fear keeps us (people and animals) alive. Living in a state of fear and stress, obviously not good. But specific, legitimate fears that protect use from danger - good.

Electronic trainers DO NOT have to be, and should not be, used at high levels. When I use an electric collar with my dog, it's set at a level so low that I can barely feel it. For some dogs, the low level electric stimulation is less stressful than a verbal correction (No!) from the owner. I worked with a shelter dog that had severe issues with direction from the handler, but had a stress-free response to the low leve stimulation.

Electric training devices are easy to abuse - but so is ANY tool. The effect it has on the dog depends entirely on HOW it is used - just like any other training tool.


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## Sawyersmomma (May 28, 2012)

I was also thinking, sometimes since my dog needs to run loose, but can't in my area, we go for hikes. I don't know where you live, how the population is or anything, but I live in a small town, and if you go on a hiking trail during the week (excluding weekends) there's often no one there. I tend to let him loose to run going up the mountain, and by the time we're up there he's pooped enough to let me just put a leash on him so we can walk safely down without worrying about him running off. He gets to run, and I know we won't run into anyone


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## happybooker1 (Dec 6, 2011)

*What about Clicker Training?*

Or just try this method: 

Get a handful of REALLY yummy treats (hot dog pieces, boiled chicken, liver treats, etc.) Stand by a door your dog bolts out of. Ask the dog "you want to go outside/go for a walk/whatever phrase you use". When the dog's ready to BOLT out of the door, open it a fraction of an inch. When dog moves to bolt, shut the door and say "oops" or "uh-oh" or make some disapproving sound. 

Keep doing this (may take HUNDREDS of times) and gradually keep inching the door open until the dog makes no move to bolt out the door. Every single little movement by the dog results in the door being shut again. If the dog waits, give him yummy treats. 

You don't have to do this all at once. Make the gap the first day an inch or two and quit for the day. The next day try to get up to 4". Etc. Keep the lessons short at first. Keep this up for at least a couple of weeks and don't forget the yummy treats!! Lots of them. 

The theory is the dog learns to wait by the door to get yummy treats. If he bolts out of the door he gets nothing. Also you might consider leaving a long line on him (15' or longer) so if he DOES get out the door you have a rope to step on and bring his bid for freedom to a screeching halt. 

Once he's trained for YOU, let other people try it by the same method. Hope it helps.


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## Rocky'sDad (Aug 19, 2012)

*my 2 cents*

I am not a professional, but after about a year and a half got my dog trained by a professional and he responded very quickly to a few simple commands. I should add that Rocky was very well socialized as a puppy and gets along quite well with other dogs and people.

Firstly, the safety of our dogs is most important so they should not be allowed to run free, expect under close supervision in a safe place. Next is their happiness, so training has to be very sensitive, but firm, as I have found that my 2 year-old standard is willful, but responds quickly to gentle compulsion. He is much more affectionate since being trained by a professional, who had in heal within a few minutes, although it took much longer for the trainer to train me. He now sits and lies down on command. We use a prong collar turned out so that the prongs do not touch his skin, as that can cause irritation. Never walk them with a tight leash. It should always be slack. It is natural for a dog to pull against a tight lease, just as we might resist pressure. Reward with treats within 1.5 seconds when they respond as desired. Also, they need more than a walk. They need to run a bit in an off-leash, safe environment with other dogs. You may want to try a longer tether, like 20-25 feet, until your dog responds to commands, like "easy" when the leash tightens. Of course this is also necessary on the normal lease, which should not be too heavy. Try never to give commands without a slight tug on the leash to convey compulsion. If they can ignore your commands it makes little difference how often one gives the command. In time the tug will not be necessary. We have also used a stim collar at a very low setting to let him know that when he is at a distance, he will respond to the command "here", but that is given in a prolonged pronunciation, like "heeere". When he responds to the here command it is essential to reward within 1.5 seconds of his arrival. Training should only be done in short time intervals so as not to stress your dog. Before training, Rocky loved me, but did not respect me. After his initial training he was much more obedient, attentive and loving. It was as if he had a purpose. After all, they are working dogs and bred to please.
Hope my experience is helpful. Oh yes, never raise your voice, as that has to be reserved for very special, brief commands. Poodles are smart and learn quite fast. Not unlike children, though, they will test boundaries, but, as mentioned, respond positively to careful commands that are given with a cadence of a couple of seconds between commands and compulsion of a slight tug on the leash to get their attention. Be very gentle, as they are quite sensitive and definitely get it.


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## MsVinaaa (Mar 29, 2010)

Thank you @Yaddaluvpoodles I'll will definitely take those suggestions and run with them. And he is a miniature poodle. I'm too afraid to NOT chase him because really when he's out of the house he's so fast that I have to run to see where he is. 

There was this one time a friend came over and he ran outside and stupid me I didn't see him. I assumed he went under the couch (he likes to sleep under it) so I didn't think twice about it. Then an hour later, my friend was on her way out and when she opened the door there he was waiting. OMG I freaked out!!! Because what if he wasn't there and I had still thought he was under the couch!! I felt like a terrible mother. 

I don't know if he just sat there or not but it's really hard for me to believe that he didn't try to go anywhere. Than again it was a hot day so I am guessing it was too hot for him to go around trotting anywhere. I'm so blessed that he didn't wander or that he waited at the door.

I'm not sure what kind of leash I have. But it is a retractable one.


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

MsVinaaa said:


> I'm not sure what kind of leash I have. But it is a retractable one.


I really like Happybooker's suggestions--those will probably get you the quickest results, just make sure he is on a brake line, so that you can stop him if you need to.

Retractable leashes--are dangerous, lots of injuries from them. They are also not fair at all to the dog who is attached to it.

With retractable leashes, dogs never know how far they can go. Can they go a foot, two feet, six feet, ten feet? Or which time they can go further and why. They never know when they are going to get stopped dead in their tracks. Then the next thing that happens is, owners stop them, then release them, the distance is never consistent. I have never seen a tool that will teach a dog to pull as quickly as a retractable lead does.


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## sophiebonita (Jul 10, 2012)

Yaddaluvpoodles said:


> With retractable leashes, dogs never know how far they can go. Can they go a foot, two feet, six feet, ten feet? Or which time they can go further and why. They never know when they are going to get stopped dead in their tracks. Then the next thing that happens is, owners stop them, then release them, the distance is never consistent. I have never seen a tool that will teach a dog to pull as quickly as a retractable lead does.


Wow thank you, I did not know that. I don't use one but was considering buying one since eeeeveryone I see has one so I thought I was slighting my dog ?




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