# Merles



## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

So, I was browsing the web for mini breeders. There are a lot of yucky (that is a technical term) websites out there for "poodles." Anyway, I saw a few of these "rare merle color" puppies. They say some have blue eyes. I don't know much about breeding, but sometimes aren't blue eyes and certain patterns related to hearing problems or other health problems?


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## Dogsinstyle (Sep 6, 2009)

If you see merle poodles, please note they are not AKC reg. The merle comes from a cross in the background with mini Aussies.
Utopia- used to be Terraganthen before she was shut down and moved- is the most obvious of the merle breeders.
Carole


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

Dogsinstyle said:


> If you see merle poodles, please note they are not AKC reg. The merle comes from a cross in the background with mini Aussies.
> Utopia- used to be Terraganthen before she was shut down and moved- is the most obvious of the merle breeders.
> Carole


Yes, I know the phantom and partis are also not AKC. One breeder is claiming that poodles have the merle gene:wacko:I figured it was a cross at some point.


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## Dogsinstyle (Sep 6, 2009)

Phantoms and Parti's ARE AKC, just can't be shown in AKC conformation classes. Merle mini's won't be registered AKC- if DNA was done to prove parentage, the gig would be up, so to speak. The lesser registries (APRI, Contenental Kennel Club, etc.) do not require or will not ask for proof of parentage.
Parti's and phantoms have been in the poodle breed since it's inception. Merles, not- the true merle pattern is not found in poodles. (purebred poodles).
Carole


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

Okay, now I am understanding. I was confused, since the parti and phantoms cannot be shown, I assumed they were not AKC. 

On the one site with the Merles, the breeder claimed to be breeding them to keep them out of the shelters! Since they were so "unique" and she figured she would know they were hers?!


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

Here's the link:
Silver & Blue Merle Miniature Poodles - Merle Poodles? Why???

While I think they are interesting looking, the reasoning here kind of freaks me out!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Given the known issues with merle to merle mating in other breeds, and the possibility of unknowingly mating to a "cryptic merle" carrying the merle gene, deliberately breeding this genetic fault into poodles seems to go against every piece of good practice advice I have ever seen. And the argument that it will make them so pretty that they will never end up in rescue is spurious in the extreme.


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

Honestly, I think a lot of people would just think, it's some kind of a mix. Since that coloring is unusual, some people would just think it is not purebred.


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## Cdnjennga (Jul 30, 2009)

Skye said:


> Here's the link:
> Silver & Blue Merle Miniature Poodles - Merle Poodles? Why???
> 
> While I think they are interesting looking, the reasoning here kind of freaks me out!


Oh my... That reasoning is ridiculous! I find the Merle poodles quite odd looking.


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## Dogsinstyle (Sep 6, 2009)

On the one site with the Merles, the breeder claimed to be breeding them to keep them out of the shelters! Since they were so "unique" and she figured she would know they were hers?! 

Golly gee... isn't that one reason for microchips?

Carole


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I know absolutely nothing about the Merles except that they certainly are strange looking!


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

Here is another site that claims poodles carry the merle gene. This is the quote:


"Poodles do come in the Merle Coat Pattern! Studies have been conducted and it has been proven that Poodles do infact carry the Merle Gene."

Oak Knoll Poodles - Miniature Poodles in Missouri - Purchasing a Puppy


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Dogsinstyle said:


> On the one site with the Merles, the breeder claimed to be breeding them to keep them out of the shelters! Since they were so "unique" and she figured she would know they were hers?!
> 
> Golly gee... isn't that one reason for microchips?



:rofl::rofl::rofl:

BTW.... I had heard that the Merle originally came from a Shelti. Whatever the reason, Merle Poodles are clearly NOT purebred.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

These people make me sick trying to fool puppy buyers. 

Merle is a dominate color therefore this would have shown up when poodles where becoming a breed :doh:

This same BS has happened with apbts's( pit bulls) All of the sudden these merle pit bull where being bred and sold as purebreds :rolffleyes: There has been no documentation of this breed coming in this color until the 90's :wacko:

The UKC and ADBA will not register the merle color now. Since apbt come in any color the standard has changed to add merle is a disqualifying color. 

These breeder where obviously mixing the pits with catahoula leopard dog ( a popular catch dog) which already has physical traits of a bully type breed. So getting them to look pure did not take but one crossing.

American Pit Bull Terrier Network Merle and the Pit Bull


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

While this may not be a fair comparison, here is a "poodle" with unusual coloring on petfinder:
Adoptable Poodle: Marzipan: Petfinder
They say her ears go back, so they are not sure what she is. Looks like there is some chihuahua in there to me. And what about the purebred rescues? I just think that is a silly reason; to make them "different" to keep them out of shelters? And, I thought the same thing about microchips! LOL


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

roxy25 said:


> These people make me sick trying to fool puppy buyers.
> 
> Merle is a dominate color therefore this would have shown up when poodles where becoming a breed :doh:
> 
> ...



I know, so many people will be like, "OOOOH the rare color!" I feel icky after browsing all of these sites, LOL


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## Dogsinstyle (Sep 6, 2009)

Poodles do come in the Merle Coat Pattern! Studies have been conducted and it has been proven that Poodles do infact carry the Merle Gene."

You will note- no study is listed. I am on 5 canine genetics lists. Merle has been discussed extensively. There is NO merle in the original poodle lines.
Carole


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## Cornishbecky (Nov 21, 2009)

Dont shoot me....... but they do look attractive (the colour).
But I have a White Deaf Collie (i think known as lethal whites?) as a result of irresponsable merle breeding, her brother is deaf and another brother has epilepsy. so i would never own one or condone the breeding of merles!
So It wont be long i supose before all these problems are rife in her or any other merle breeders lines!


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

Dogsinstyle said:


> Poodles do come in the Merle Coat Pattern! Studies have been conducted and it has been proven that Poodles do infact carry the Merle Gene."
> 
> You will note- no study is listed. I am on 5 canine genetics lists. Merle has been discussed extensively. There is NO merle in the original poodle lines.
> Carole


I know, and if you go to the link, she has "more about merle poodles" and there is nothing about merle poodles. It just shows different dogs with the merle pattern or coloring!:doh:


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## Purley (May 21, 2010)

I had thought that you could show partis in AKC dog shows. I know you can't show them in Canadian Kennel Club shows.

So far as merles go, breeding a merle to a merle produces white and blind puppies. At least I assume its the same as with Collies. Its a no no.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

While I think that color can look cool (though I prefer a solid color face on any poodle) someone mentioned health concerns when breeding a merle to a merle.. I know a little about poodle breeding from this site (though never will) but I don't know anything about breeding in any other dog breeds. What's the concerns with merle coloring?


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Fluffyspoos said:


> While I think that color can look cool (though I prefer a solid color face on any poodle) someone mentioned health concerns when breeding a merle to a merle.. I know a little about poodle breeding from this site (though never will) but I don't know anything about breeding in any other dog breeds. What's the concerns with merle coloring?


I hope this helps 

Merle Genetics


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Essentially, one copy of the dominant merle gene may produce a prettily spotted dog. Two copies - one from each parent - can produce a dog that is deaf or blind (including pups born with no eyes). Pups are usually culled at birth. So deliberately breeding the merle gene into poodles is potentially also introducing a catastrophic genetic failing that will lead to pups dying at a few days old - not exactly responsible behaviour.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Cross posted, Roxy!


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## *tina* (Jan 3, 2010)

Breeding merle to merle is like breeding a dapple Dachshund to another dapple, producing double Dapples. My parents met someone who did had an accidental double dapple litter(unintentional), and it was not pretty. Those puppies had a myriad of health issues, including one born with the organs outside of the body. Very sad.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Skye said:


> On the one site with the Merles, the breeder claimed to be breeding them to keep them out of the shelters! Since they were so "unique" and she figured she would know they were hers?!


Oh please! :rolffleyes:

Edited to add: "Breeders" like this make me so angry! Flat-out lying, fooling the uninformed, duping them to pay thousands of dollars for a pup that's not even purebred, much less well bred. Ugh.


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

i breed aussies- so Merle breeding is what we do. But we never (Well good breeders) breed merle to merle. You hve At least 25% chance of excess white resulting in blindness and deafness. 

Merle genetics are commonly found in herding/shepherd breeds and the danes... 

I love merle- yes merle on poodle would be cool (Yes i've hunted high and low to get my phantom) but yeah i don't want no cross bred dog!


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

neVar said:


> i breed aussies- so Merle breeding is what we do. But we never (Well good breeders) breed merle to merle. You hve At least 25% chance of excess white resulting in blindness and deafness.
> 
> Merle genetics are commonly found in herding/shepherd breeds and the danes...
> 
> I love merle- yes merle on poodle would be cool (Yes i've hunted high and low to get my phantom) but yeah i don't want no cross bred dog!


Those aussies are beautiful; very cool looking! I thought some of the merle poodles had a cool look, too. But, I figured there had to be some kind of a cross there. And the reasoning of the one, to "keep them out of the shelters" floored me!


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

what a stupid reason- it's like saying you breed doodles- they are so popular they would never end up there (UH HUH) 

Yes i love merles- though i'm very picky on WHAT merles i like. Where with aussies- the tri colors i always like. . .


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