# 2-yr-old Toy Poodle Started Pooping on the Floor



## Tossman

I know there are similar posts on this sub-forum, but since many scenarios can be unique, I figured I'd start my own. I apologize if this has been discussed ad nauseum. I'm at wit's end with our 2 year old toy poodle for one singular reason-- he refuses to poop anywhere but our living room floor. So I'll just lay everything out here and welcome your advice.

*First, some background: *
We bought a toy poodle nearly two years ago as a service animal for my then 5 year old son with Asperger's disorder (Asperger's is a form of high-functioning autism).

I'm not a dog guy. I like them, but frankly I'd rather not own them. I don't consider them members of the family, and I could give this or any dog away at the drop of a hat without any serious sentiment (the cat's a different story). But that's me. My autistic son adores the poodle. Does wonders for his anxiety. So I'm stuck. I should also add that the poodle loves me, so much so that if given the choice between my son and me, he'll immediately jump into my lap. Why, I have absolutely no idea.

*Temperment & Environment: *
The poodle is pretty good, behavior wise. He barks when the doorbell rings, whines when crated, etc. but is generally very good tempered. Smart too. Smartest dog I've ever known. He doesn't chew anything or get into anything. He gets (got) a lot of exercise indoors and on potty breaks in the field behind our house. He sleeps with my son in his bed, but we've got a crate downstairs where his food and water is.

*The Problem*:
For the first year almost, he faithfully did his business outside in the yard. Then about a year ago, for reasons I can't figure out, he would pee outside but poop on our living room carpet. No matter how long we left him out on his potty breaks. No matter how much we said "NO!" I can't tie this shift to any event or environmental change. Just happened, and he apparently ain't going back!

We've tried praise for pooping out back, treats, all kinds of positive reinforcement. No dice. Negative reinforcement won't work because he truly can make no connection between such reinforcement and what he did wrong (which really boggles my mind). The only way we can avoid a steamy pile of poodle doo on the floor each morning is to strictly control his feeding times, then crate him after the potty run each morning. 

Thing is, now he'll crap on the floor any time he gets a chance. Just spent an hour outside playing, peeing on everything he sees, but the second he gets in he'll head right into the living room to drop a deuce. It used to be just if we forgot to let him out. Now it's whenever we don't track every movement.

To me it seems defiant. The dog is way smarter than I ever thought a dog could be. It seriously seems out of spite. He does tend to get a little big for his britches if given too much leeway, so maybe this is part of that? I've read here a thousand times that dogs don't act out of defiance or spite. Not sure I buy that, but whatever.

Problem is, in order to keep him from pooping inside, we have to keep him crated way longer than he should be. He needs to get out more (preferably be out 24/7, running free like before), but every time we let him out and turn the other way, another steaming pile. How is he not doing this on purpose?

I'd really like to find a new home for this dog, but that's not really an option since he means everything to my boy. My ultimate goal is my son's happiness, and if that means spending a good chunk of my day tending to a dog I don't care for, I guess that's my fate. 

But I'm in a real bind here. The dog CAN NOT continue using my floor as a toilet. And I can't deny him the physical and mental exercise he needs by keeping him crated most of the day. I also can't get rid of him. Something's gotta give. All he needs to do is stop pooping on the floor. How hard is that? Fix that and we've got an optimal situation, methinks.

Which is why I'm coming here for advice. Why, WHY will the dog not poop outside? How, being so intelligent, can I not communicate that pooping inside is a no no?


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## fjm

First, I would clean the floor thoroughly with an enzyme cleaner, and cover the area with an easily washed water proof rug or something similar. This will enable you to feel calmer until you find a solution.

Then I would find a behaviourist - a properly qualified and recommended behaviourist, rather than a trainer. You need someone who can observe the dog and the dynamics of the situation, and show you a way through the problem.


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## Joelly

I'm sorry about this. Its irritating I know. How about make him lose his privilege every time he does this?

On a no-no behaviour such as this, I was advised to make Charlie lose his privilege. Charlie's privilege is to roam freely in the house without counter surfing and without having any incident on the floor, carpet, etc. Therefore, if he is having an accident such as poop on the carpet and this continues without any related health problem, I will crate-and-x-pened him at once simultaneous after that incident happen. By crate-and-x-pened him, he has limited access to things. Repeat this until he gets it. So far, this work for us. Charlie tried to counter surf one time and in the crate he goes, no x-pen, just crate for 2 min. He is smart so he gets it fast. No more counter surfing.

I love the crate. It enables me to say something without saying it and without getting all bent out of shape which I am prone to do.


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## CT Girl

First, dogs do not have the human emotion of spite, your poodle loves you and wants to please you. Use the enzyme and contact a behaviorist. It is a shame you allowed this behavior to continue for a year. If this was a recent change in behavior a trainer would probably have sufficed but now that this behavior is well established I do think a behaviorist is best. It is amazing how helpful these dogs are for the autistic. My niece trained a service dog who now helps a boy with severe autism.


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## Tossman

CT Girl said:


> It is a shame you allowed this behavior to continue for a year.


Excuse me? I _allowed_ it? I've been trying desperately to curb it. Just because I haven't called in some high priced behaviorist doesn't mean I allowed anything.



CT Girl said:


> If this was a recent change in behavior a trainer would probably have sufficed but now that this behavior is well established I do think a behaviorist is best.


So you suggest calling hiring a behaviorist soon after every change in behavior? Not everybody has that luxury, CT Girl.


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## CT Girl

I did not mean to offend. I just meant if there is an undesired behavior is occurring and you are unable to stop it it is better to contact a trainer sooner rather than later. No judgement, just a poor choice of words on my part. You obviously want the best for the dog even though you are not a dog person. It must be very frustrating. You mention in your post several techniques you have tried but you just have not been successful in changing this behavior. Once the dog has a long established pattern then it is more likely you will need a behaviorist which is far more expensive. I wonder if the service organization who placed the poodle with you could provide assistance.


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## msminnamouse

It sounds like this is an anxiety expressing behavior. Dogs communicate by chemical signals and this could be why he's making a point of not defecating outside and is instead saving it for inside. Your yelling no at him would only make matters worse, as would your dislike for him. Dogs are amazingly astute at reading our emotions via body language, facial expressions and voice inflections. 

Most dogs, especially the small ones (small dog in a big world is scary), aren't all that fond of children. Children are erratic and confusing for dogs. You said that the dog prefers you, an adult, over your son, a child. That may be telling.

It sounds to me like this could be due to anxiety and all the punishment in the world isn't going to make the anxiety go away. I would contact a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist (or Associate CAAB). Or if you have the money, a Veterinary Behaviorist. That's not a vet that dabbles in behavior. A Veterinary Behaviorist is a Veterinarian who went on to earn a higher degree in behavior science. 

Directory of Certified Applied Animal Behaviorists — Animal Behavior Society: Applied Animal Behavior
Find a Board Certified Veterinary Behaviorist ACVB

I don't recommend a behaviorist that's not on one of these lists because ANYONE can call themselves a behaviorist and they often do. You need an animal behavior science degree to qualify as a legit animal behaviorist. 

Good luck.


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## MaryLynn

I don't know where to begin, but from the way you just tried to bite in CTgirl...I feel very sorry for a small dog you don't even like right about now.

You need to take a few steps back, and relax. This problem can be fixed, but as the others have stated, you will likely need an expert opinion.


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## Qarza

Phew!! Where do I begin. I am writing this on an ipad and I can't see from the app where you are so I am assuming you are in the USA. I am in New Zealand where we don't have all the help of trainers and resources that are available to you. I have a similar situation except because I have two toy poodles, and I have never caught the culprit, I don't know which dog is doing it. I suspect it is Bridget. Our house is large and open plan. Not many doors, therefore it is hard to close off areas from the dogs. During the day, we usually leave a door open to the outside so the dogs can come and go at will. If the weather is bad the door may be closed and we then take the dogs outside regularly. The pooping behind our dining table happens at night only if the outside door is closed and when we are watching TV. I blame myself because I know I should have kept a better eye on them. Instead I was distracted by the TV and not taking notice of where the dogs were. If I wasn't so lazy I would have the dogs trained to tell me they want to go out, instead of them just looking at me, which I don't see. I don't understand how service dogs work in the States. Here in NZ they are supplied by the training agency after a period of training for their purpose. But the training doesn't finish there. A lot of money has gone into a service dog and the agency should be available to help out with problems for the life of the dog. 
It sounds to me as if you are taking out your dislike of dogs in general on this sweet toy poodle who is expected to be your son's companion. My toys are good with children but my 4 and 5 year old grandson's exuberance can get my dog quite agitated. Perhaps your dog is showing sight of confusion and agitation. It certainly does not sound like a dog in a happy peaceful family.
In summary, I am saying, it is not the dog's fault. The dog is confused and frightened about something. A trainer may be able to help here. Don't yell at the dog.that will only make matters worse. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## fjm

I have been thinking about your problem, and I suspect, like msminna, that it has its root in anxiety. I once made the mistake of scolding a pup vigorously for pooping in the house - the result was that for the next few days she would not poop if I was watching, or anywhere in the vicinity. I got past it with lots of praise and treats, but it could so easily have become a deeply embedded behaviour, as it seems to have done for your little dog.

You must understand that most of us on here adore our dogs, and are going to find it quite hard to put ourselves into the thoughts of someone who just tolerates his. Having said that, I think you would find it very useful to read up on dog behaviour - it is always easier to deal with something when you have some knowledge and understanding of it, and some of the pop dog training shows on tv can be downright misleading (dangerously so, in some cases). Dogs do what works - if your poodle has ever been badly frightened while pooping in the garden, or has reason to believe it is safer not to poop in your presence, she will avoid doing so. If she has decided it is safer in the house, for whatever reason (which could include foul weather or a scary animal outside), that will have started her preferring to go there - now, after all these months, it is going to take some time to overcome her preference.

Exactly why she has decided this, and the best way of retraining her, is hard to say without being there, which is why we have recommended a good behaviourist. But to hazard a few suggestions, it sounds to me as if she is quite closely supervised when she is outside, if only so that you can be sure she has performed and reward her for it. If she has decded that it is not safe to go while you are watching, this could be counter productive. Would it be possible to create a safe area for her in the garden, and leave her alone there? Or take her for good long off leash runs somewhere new to her, which may also help with change?

If your car starts making odd noises, and you are a competent mechanic, you may be able to diagnose the problem and fix it. But you would also know that there are some things that need a specialist.  I can do many bits of DIY around the house, but avoid anything that involves electricity or water (and especially both at once!). A dog is a living creature, and more complex than either a car or a boiler - sometimes expert, on the spot advice is needed, and I think this is one of them. But I would also recommend Patricia McConnell's "The other end of the leash" for getting to understand how a dog's mind works, and her little book "Way to go!" which is specifically about house training - the latter is available as an ebook for instant access: Patricia McConnell | Dog Training Book | Way To Go! How to Housetrain a Dog of Any Age


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## Lene

I have nothing constructive to add.... I just hope this little dog finds some love despite his shortcomings...


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## Qarza

fjm said:


> But I would also recommend Patricia McConnell's "The other end of the leash" for getting to understand how a dog's mind works, and her little book "Way to go!" which is specifically about house training - the latter is available as an ebook for instant access: Patricia McConnell | Dog Training Book | Way To Go! How to Housetrain a Dog of Any Age


Thank you FJM I am going to get that book now and work on my problem.


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## Chagall's mom

You've gotten excellent advice from others. The suggestion I have to add is you might try feeding your little toy poodle in the room/area where he's eliminating. First be certain the area is pristine clean, as recommended, by using a good enzymatic cleaner. It will probably take several applications. Divide his regular meal portion up into several bowls and place them in the area he's mistakenly using. That could _possibly_ help reframe his desire to use that particular spot as his indoor potty. But, as mentioned, eliminating indoors is now an ingrained behavior so you'll have to keep a sharp eye on him to ensure he doesn't go in another spot that he shouldn't.

The other reasonable alternative, until you seek the professional help this situation appears to require, is to tether the dog to yourself or your son when he's indoors so that he is never loose alone and unwatched in the room where he's making mistakes. Should he begin to sniff and circle and squat he can be quickly stopped from doing so while tethered and immediately taken outdoors.

If he has an accident in the house, calmly put him elsewhere before you clean it up. Don't let him see you cleaning the spot, or allow him to witness your annoyance at having to do so. I share the concern that the genesis of this behavior may be anxiety/fear based. He doesn't need anything more to be worried or fearful about. Though you may not like dogs, they are sentient creatures due consideration and thoughtful, patient, compassionate care. Given all that little poodle is doing to help your son, it seems to me he deserves that to the hilt.

I don't want to come across as being unsympathetic, I can tell you're having a really tough time of it. The thing is, your toy poodle is like a human toddler. Your expectations for his behavior may be challenged at times. Maybe try to think about how heroic and wonderful he is for being such a help and comfort to your son. And frankly, though it sounds as if it would surely break your son's heart, you may come to a crossroads someday where you feel you do need to rehome his poodle. IF this happens, I implore you to be certain the dog is either turned back to the breeder, if that's possible, or safely and carefully re-homed via a Poodle Club of America rescue group. Should you ever find yourself in need of such assistance, you can contact PCA. Welcome to PCA! Or, if you want help doing so, post here and you'll get all the guidance and support possible. We're all on the same side here of wanting poodles and their people to live in harmony. Good luck with things! :clover:


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## Tossman

I've got to head to work so I'll have to formulate a more thorough reply later, but I would like to chime in quickly to make a few points. 

First off, I may have come to the wrong forum for advice. Seems like most of you here think it's darn near criminal for me not to absolutely adore this dog. Keep in mind that he's in the near-constant company of a child whose adoration for this little guy rivals yours for your dogs. I do consider him a hero for the help he's given my son. The poodle has spent many a long evening in my lap, and we do have a certain bond. But you're not going to make a non dog person into a dog person.

Second, nowhere in my post did I say I yell at the dog. On the contrary, I ready about NILIF early on. My approach has been to positively reinforce as much as possible and to take privileges when necessary. Robby is quite proud of his privilege of being able to wander the house on his own. He doesn't care for toys. He values his freedom to wander. I crate him to temporarily deprive him of that privilege when he poops inside. Obviously that's not working.

Also, when he goes outside, he is unsupervised and has free reign of the yard and adjoining field.


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## fjm

Sounds as if there is some other reason for it than him worrying about pooping in your presence, then. I highly recommend Patricia McConnell's books - her advice is generally sound and matches very well with your positive reinforcement approach.


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## N2Mischief

I honestly don't mean offense. But it doesn't sound like you came to the wrong forum for advice. I think the problem is you are coming to any forum for advice and you don't seem to really want any. 

Obviously something you are doing or not doing isn't working. But any suggestions you shoot down as a personal attack on you and I don't think anyone on this forum has intended their advice as a personal attack. Nor do I. They are simply trying to help. 

I too have an autistic child in my home. I have a poodle puppy who is not yet totally reliable on potty training. I know how frustrating it can be. I wish you, your son, and your poodle the best


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## CT Girl

Tossman, I do hope some of the suggestions put forth are helpful. Shame that going outside unsupervised is not the answer I thought that was a good possibility. I would say you need to begin training like he was a puppy. One thing that mighty also be helpful is if you also teach him to ring bells when he needs to go outside. My poodles signal to go out is so subtle that it is easily missed so he rings his pooche bells if he needs to go. It is very easy to teach it took two days and he had it. In the morning when you know he needs to go have him ring the bell by hitting his paw to the bell and go outside. Wait him out till he poops and pees. When you see he is going to do either give a command. I use "hurry up". Wait till he is going in the beginning. Eventually he will go on command. When you go inside have him teathered to an adult. If you see he is sniffing ect. Take him to the door have him ring the bell and go out. When he does go praise and treat. The teather is a pain but it is critical that no more mistakes occur. Before you start training make sure you don't just use a regular cleaner but one that has enyzymes so no trace of sent remains inside. The idea of feeding him in the problem area is a good one. You might keep one poop in the area outside where you would like him to go. The books that FJM recommends look great. If you get an e version is is inexpensive as well. Once you think the dog is reliable give the training several more days and closely monitor him for a while till he is trustworthy. Even though Robbie loves to be able to roam the house he will have to earn back that privilege. You might find it helpful to keep a log of your training methods and if there are accidents time and circumstances as maybe you will pick up a pattern that might otherwise be missed.

As far as speculation that you may have yelled at your dog when defecating in the house this was probably mentioned because it is a common training error and it would explain why the dog was going in the house if he was always attended when outside. Goodness knows it is the normal reaction and certainly my first instinct. I think Swizzle knows when I gasp it means the same thing as a yell . Unfortunately it sounds like the issue with your dog is more complex.


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## Carley's Mom

Can you just block him from getting into the Living Room? 

I would keep him on a leash inside, make sure he goes outside to poop. He would not be off the leash until he did and then , TREATED!!!! He has to go everyday, so a day or two of this should fix the problem.


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## Tossman

N2Mischief said:


> I honestly don't mean offense. But it doesn't sound like you came to the wrong forum for advice. I think the problem is you are coming to any forum for advice and you don't seem to really want any.


I'm sorry but that's incorrect. I came here for advice and a few of you have offered some really helpful insight, and I really appreciate that. I haven't had a chance to thoroughly respond yet (see my short post yesterday), so stay tuned. What I've bristled at is the rather presumptuous attitude I have encountered here. 

So far, from one post, you've collectively (not you, N2) presumed that I dislike the dog, that I'm projecting that dislike onto him, that I yell at him, and that he doesn't live "in a happy peaceful family."

Can you see why I'm just a bit defensive? 

Nowhere in my post did I insinuate any of those things. That was all incorrectly assumed. Not being a dog person, or not particularly caring for a dog is not the same thing as disliking the dog. I don't yell at him, and although my family isn't perfect, we're quite happy and peaceful, thank you very much.



N2Mischief said:


> Obviously something you are doing or not doing isn't working. But any suggestions you shoot down as a personal attack on you and I don't think anyone on this forum has intended their advice as a personal attack.


Maybe you're right, but it's at the very least extremely presumptuous.

I think we got off on the wrong foot. I'm a fish out of water. A non dog person in a forum full of extreme dog lovers. Some of you seem quite offended that I don't absolutely adore the dog and the presumptions have resulted.

I'm also not blameless. Not everything is communicated well over forum post, and I have not properly communicated the context of my situation. I'm also a cat person (no, not a crazy cat person, but I'll take a cat over a dog any given day-- unless I'm in a survival situation). I'm probably unwittingly applying my knowledge of cat behavior to the dog, which is both ridiculous and unfair.

Now to the advice. We've tried the enzyme cleaner, no dice. Can't cover the entire area with a waterproof rug because it's a larger room and the entire room is his toilet. Crating works for most minor, one-off behavior issues, but not the pooping. CT Girl, I appreciate the insight into the dog mind. You've reinforced a lot of what I've read. Thank you. I might try your bell idea as well.

Msminnamouse, thank you for your insight as well (minus the presumptions, of course). Thanks for the tip on certified vs. uncertified behavorists.

Fjm, good thoughts. Since we don't supervise the dog on his outside bathroom outings, I can't discount the possibility of something scaring him at some point. That also got me thinking as to what else might have happened. The only thing I can think of is that my mother in law visited about the time the behavior changed. While she was here, she took over feeding and letting out. There were a couple days where she forgot to let him outside and he had accidents. Not sure if this spurred the habit, but it did come to mind. We also live in Utah, which has very polarized weather. Summers are hot and dry, winters frigid and volotile. The behavior changed during the summer.

Chagall's Mom, good idea on the feeding where he's pooping. Will try that. When he's crated and needs to go, it's quite clear he'd never do it (and never has) in his crate, where he also eats and drinks. Making the association with food might just do the trick. Tethering the dog to me ain't gonna happen, but I might be able to tether him to my son.

N2Mischief, thanks for your support, and I can empathize with your situation. Although yours was the quote I replied to in this post, I don't mean to single you out.

Carley's Mom, we might try your leash idea too.

A behaviorist will be the last option. They cost money that I don't have.

One other thing. I was discussing this with my son last night. He handles the potty outings while I'm at work, and he said he sees him regularly pooping outside as well. So he goes both places. He never, ever pees inside, though.


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## Chagall's mom

Glad you've gotten some ideas about things to try. Let us know how it goes. (Just for the record, I own up to be a crazy poodle lady. Though admittedly I was a little looney before owning one.)


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## Tossman

Chagall's mom said:


> Glad you've gotten some ideas about things to try. Let us know how it goes. (Just for the record, I own up to be a crazy poodle lady. Though admittedly I was a little looney before owning one.)


Crazy dog ladies are much less crazy than crazy cat ladies. And this coming from a cat guy


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## CT Girl

It is a very positive sign that your dog is defecating outside. It sounds like your son is a mature seven so the option of attaching the leash to him would work. Try to get the dog on a regular schedule. You really do need to make sure the problem area is thoroughly cleaned with the enzyme cleaner and use it if there are new accidents. Even a well trained dog may go inside of he gets that scent. This won't stop the behavior on its own but it will make the area less enticing. It sounds like you are doing this but continue even if it doesn't look like it is effective. It sounds like you have gained some insights as to how this behavior started. It could be as simple as a break in training because the dog was not let out properly when your mother in law visited. This is much easier to deal with than a fear of pooping outside. Do let us know how things are going. I do hope things get resolved soon.


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## fjm

I'm the local Cat Lady, and the one with the tiny dogs ...does have the advantage that my neighbours have rather given up trying to pigeon hole me!

I think I would start going out with him (on a long line if necessary), waiting for him to poop, rewarding him, and working on the cue word. It would be time consuming at first, but getting the behaviour on cue should not take long with such an intelligent little dog, and once it is you only need to stay out with him for a few minutes and then he can run off to do his own thing. The communal grounds where I live are not secure and because they are shared pooper scooping is mandatory, so I always have to accompany my two on trips out (often in dressing gown and slippers and without my contact lenses in, peering myopically while clutching a poo bag - another thing for the neighbours to note!) - teaching the dogs not to take forever about their toileting therefore came fairly high on my list when they were pups!


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## Tossman

CT Girl said:


> It could be as simple as a break in training because the dog was not let out properly when your mother in law visited.


I really hope that's all it is! I didn't know he had been pooping outside too.

fjm, the communal pooping area would be maddening! Luckily we've got an empty field behind our house. The nice thing about poodle doo (if there is a nice thing about poodle doo) is that it's fairly small and fairly benign. If I have to have a dog pooping on my floor, I'd rather it be a poodle!


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## N2Mischief

I'm so happy so many people were able to give you some advice that may help! I agree that if he is going outside at times that is a good sign. 

I have fostered a lot of dogs (only one poodle mix and the rest pugs). Most came un-housebroken. Some were already senior dogs that had never been in a house. Yikes! I used a combination of many of the others' suggestions. What I found worked best in most cases was of course the crate, tethering to my body when out of the crate, using a command for the "act", and throwing a mini party each time we were successful (praising to the point where my neighbors must have thought I had lost my mind). I think the key is preventing accidents (tethering to someone). It is a pain, but really doesn't take terribly long. Then you have to give him his freedom just a bit at a time. Too much freedom too soon and he will revert. 

I understand about the cat thing. My husband is cat crazy and though he likes dogs, he much prefers cats. His cat is his baby! A 26.5 pound ball of lazy. His cat weighs more than all three of the dogs combined! 

As for the autism, our grand daughter who lives with us is autistic. She will be two next month and I would love to hear any hints and advice (via email or private) that has worked for you. We have been in therapy for 3 months with no progress.


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## Sweetp

Tossman, does the poodle behave this way only when you're home or does he do it any time? Could it be attention seeking behavior? Sometimes they want attention from some person so badly that they'll do whatever it takes to get that attention whether it's good or bad.

I know he sits on your lap but are you interacting with him, talking to him, rubbing him, playing with him - just giving him some undivided attention? 

Also, could the living room be gated off? I bought a couple of those metal pens from Pet-smart and broke them down into sizes needed to gate off my living room while I was house training. 

It'll be interesting to see how this situation gets resolved. Good luck and please keep us posted.


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## Tossman

Sweetp, he poops inside when I'm not home too. When he sits on my lap I do talk, pet, etc. It's not necessarily undivided attention, though. I'm usually doing something else (helping a kid with homework, talking to my wife, watching TV). I do give him undivided attention regularly, but not too long each time. Maybe he wants more undivided attention.

Gating off the living room would be tough because it's more a section of an open area and there are several entrances. Hard to explain, but no, that's not an option. So we have to watch that room like hawks. There are a few rooms in the house he knows he's not allowed-- the master bedroom, laundry room, and living room. He's very aware that he isn't to go into those rooms, and he never violates those rules except for the living room. If he knows we're watching, he won't go into the living room. Even if he were following me and I entered that room, he stops. Yet he'll head right on in to poop the second we turn away!

I'm going to take this weekend and apply some of the pointers you've all offered. We get this one thing resolved and we're good to go.


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## Oreo's Mommy

I just wanted to add...as a mother to a special needs child myself, it is amazing the things we do to enrich and broaden our children's lives.

I have a fish that my daughter brought home back in first grade that will outlive me. It's gone through three tanks...damn goldfish...and once tank dumped over 20 gallons of poopy water in my house. We HAD to save the fish though...it is my daughter's baby. 

Oreo is my dog...my stress reliever from all the craziness that goes on in my house of chaos...ie teenagers. Lol. 

It warms my heart to see how dedicated you are to your son and his beloved poodle. I sure hope the great suggestions you have gotten so far help out with the poop problem. It takes a special parent and a special family to raise a special child. Bless you.


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## JudyD

My friend, who has three horses, wears a teeshirt that says "I'm just one horse away from being that crazy horse lady." I think she's already there, myself, but since I'm known as that crazy bicycle lady, I can't say a word.


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## PammiPoodle

May I ask how you taught your dog (did I miss his name somewhere in these threads?) to stay out of certain rooms? If (no assumptions, but *if* this is the case), if he was taught with intimidation such as telling him no, clapping, yelling, chasing him out, or even glaring at him, then it makes sense that he "sneaks" in there when you're not looking. If that was the way he was taught, he may have learned the living room + people = not a good idea, while the living room without people = fair game! Now that he knows the only way to enter the living room is secretly, then no one was able to notice and interrupt the first few times he pooped there, and so he simply learned it was a comfortable, easy option. If you had two bathrooms to chose from, and one required asking permission or getting someone's attention, while one was always free to use, which would you chose? I mention these points to hopefully show you that spite isn't the only possible motivation. Aside from *why* he likes his pooping habit, here are a bunch of suggestions and tips that may help you. : )

Play and feed at "the scene of the crime". On leash and ready to interrupt if needed, but preferably when your dog is empty to be extra safe. Until next tip...

Walk your dog, on leash if needed, through the area he tends to have accidents while you're on your way out for a potty break. Especially when you know he needs to go! This way he will learn what it's like to feel the urge in that area, yet hold it. It's not a punishment, don't take so long that he becomes uncomfortable, just let him be "aware" of the feeling. He'll also get used to making his way from the inappropriate potty place to the appropriate one, with a big jackpot of pooping at the destination! Some dogs just aren't familiar with the route.

If your dog will calmly nap in the crate, or spends the night in one, have him do so in the living room. That just creates more sleeping-eating-playing-feels-like-home associations with that room. It's a great place to poop now, because as far as he can tell, it's not really his living quarters. Let him see that it's part of his home. Unless, next tip...

None of the above will be viable options if you'd like to continue not allowing him in the living room as, obviously, that will be reinforcing being in the living room. If you want him to stay out of the living room at all times, he'll need strict management and training until he learns the boundary. Here's the first video of a 4 part how-to series about teaching your dog invisible barriers. It's a lot of work, and the dog needs to have zero opportunities to let themselves into the area in your absence until they have completely learned to stay out. Otherwise you end up with dogs who respect the barrier only when their people are around, since they know it doesn't apply when they're alone. Again, this isn't rule-breaking or naughtiness, just learned behavior.






At a lower cost than gates around the living room, and at times that tethering to a human is inconvenient, perhaps your pup could be tethered to a weight or heavy piece of furniture in an appropriate room. You may want to hook two or three leashes together so he can freely roam the room he's in, but still not get to the living room. You could maybe find or create a suitable "hitching point" in each/most of the rooms you and your family use, and just move him from one to the next as you all move about the house. Move him directly from one point to the next, with a leash or a hand on his collar if needed, so that he does not have a gap in which to run to the living room. You're right, he is smart! He's not spitefully escaping you, but he is cleverly avoiding the barrier (you, or other family members) between him and rectal relief! Can you blame him? He doesn't know it's wrong, he just knows he has to be crafty to get what his body is telling him he needs. Just remember, leaving him tethered and unattended is dangerous, please don't do that! At any time being tethered and in sight isn't an option, and being outside isn't an option, then it could be crate time. And that seems like it wouldn't be all that much, after all! : )

One of the easiest (in theory) and most crucial aspects of ending any problem behavior is management, management, management!! Do not allow the behavior to happen any more. Find a way! Management with tiny gaps only strengthens the "sneakiness" of a behavior, because the animal adapts to jumping through all the necessary hoops to do the thing they really want to do. You are a human, and he is a dog. You have foresight and oppose-able thumbs. Problem solve and you can prevent this from happening any more. I know you can. : ) 

And here's a video about potty training issues that you may find helpful:






Lastly, I don't think you came to the wrong forum, at all! : ) Yes, we love our dogs here. A lot! We love on them all day and then get together on here when they're sleeping so we can talk about them some more! : P Of course, it's *because* we're such enthusiasts (perhaps zealots?), that we have a lot of help to offer. If someone seems judgmental, they probably aren't, text is a very difficult form of communication. If someone legitimately *is* judgmental, who cares? You're here to learn about potty training your dog! You're trying to keep your family happy and peaceful and together and poo-free! Take from us what helps you, and forget the stuff that could irritate you. That's also a great tip for dog training! Reward and appreciate the good, ignore the bad. The end result is you get more good in return. : )


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## Chagall's mom

PammiPoodle said:


> You could maybe find or create a suitable "hitching point" in each/most of the rooms you and your family use, and just move him from one to the next as you all move about the house.


You offered _awesome_ suggestions to try to help with little Robby's housetraining issue!!:thumb: I just saw this "anchor" for tethering a dog, it's about $22 on Amazon. It's called Dog Leash With Paw Anchor 

Product Description
PA001P-LG Features: -Dog Leash with Paw Anchor.-Material: High quality polypropylene.-Portable dog training system.-Useful tool to assist you in solving problems with separation anxiety, house training, puppy chewing and jumping.-Perfect animal training aid, as a temporary animal containment system and indoor/outdoor pet anchoring system.-Ideal for dogs up to and over eighty pounds in weight.-Comfort carry handles for easy positioning.-Double box stitched connection provides control and durability.-Convenient hook and loop closure makes filling quick and easy.-Rust proof D-ring for additional security and support.-Easily fill with any convenient weighted device.-Escape-proof swivel buckles designed to minimize tangles. Color/Finish: -Color: Red. Dimensions: -Strong 72'' long, 1'' wide nylon webbed leash with reinforced wrist strap.-Dimensions: 15'' H x 16.5'' W x 0.5'' - 4'' D.


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## Qarza

Like you Tossman I can't block off the living room. Our whole upstairs is an open living area apart from 2 bedrooms and a bathroom which do have doors. I am looking for a large baby play pen that will open out like a fence. That way when we are relaxing and watching TV the dogs can't get out of sight in the dining table area. I got the book that was recommended and while it does have some very good advice, most we have heard from the people here, the situation become hard because of our home situation. 
Also like you Tossman tethering to me all day is not possible. My dog is Two years old a she only does this at night. Though I could tether her when we are watching TV I suppose. 
You have a lot of things to try. I wish you well and hope it eventually gets sorted out.


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## fjm

As others have said, rooms that are not a regular part of the dog's living area are not seen as "den", and are more likely to be seen as useful toiletting areas. Making the living room his main living area, while keeping him penned or under close supervision there and reinforcing outdoor pooping, may help a lot. Whatever you try, be prepared for (yet more!) patience, consistency and persistence. Research suggests that it takes humans three weeks of regular, frequent repetition to change a habit or develop a new one, and that most of us give up after 10 - 14 days. Dogs are not dissimilar...


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## Tossman

Oreo's Mommy, thanks for the kind words. Raising a special needs child is quite challenging, but also uniquely rewarding. I share your sentiment!



PammiPoodle said:


> May I ask how you taught your dog (did I miss his name somewhere in these threads?) to stay out of certain rooms?


Pammi, it was quite early on when he was still really young. Before we adopted him we decided there would be a few rooms that we'd like to keep pet-free, mainly for reasons of cleanliness. So when he'd come into those rooms, We'd simply pick him up and put him outside that room. We may have said something like "heeeey" when he'd try, but mainly I think he just picked up that he's not allowed in those rooms. This was an extremely easy thing to teach. He may sneak into these rooms when we're not around, but I've never caught him in the act and he certainly doesn't poop in them (only the living room). I really appreciate the time you (and everybody else) have taken to analyze the situation and post your advice. We've actually started the play and feed at the "scene of the crime." No pooping there since, but then again we've kept a closer eye out, and he kinda knows that.

Robby does nap in the crate during the day but at night he snuggles with my son in his bed. Are you suggesting taking the crate itself into the living room? The living room is one room I'm okay with allowing him if he'll behave. Maybe a good reward for pooping outside can be, "ok bud, congrats! Living room is now accessible!"

Interesting concept about the dog not necessarily being sneaky, but thinking the rule doesn't apply. This thinking is very foreign to me, being a cat person My cat most definitely sneaks and will do things out of defiance. Very good to know that the dog doesn't. I haven't had time to watch the invisible barriers and potty training videos you posted, but I will because I'm extremely interested.

Chagall's mom, thanks for the anchor suggestion. Qarza, my only concern about tethering is that he'll wrap up in something and get stuck. I hadn't thought about a playpen.

fjm, interesting concept about "den" areas. I really think we'll focus on making the living room a regular part of his living area.


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## PammiPoodle

Tossman said:


> Mainly I think he just picked up that he's not allowed in those rooms. This was an extremely easy thing to teach. He may sneak into these rooms when we're not around, but I've never caught him in the act and he certainly doesn't poop in them (only the living room).


If Robby goes into a no-fly zone when you're not around, then he hasn't actually learned to stay out of the area. He's only learned not to let people *see* him in the area. He can be taught to stay out, but I think you've got a better idea letting him go in if he gets his potty habits in check. It'll be easier to convince him not to poop in there if he likes the area, as you're already starting to teach him! : )

And, yes, I was suggesting letting him sleep or rest crated in the living room. It will just allow him to spend more time in there, even if you aren't free to monitor him. More time logged will "reprogram" him faster! : P Sorry, I just got a puppy and I feel like all I'm doing all day is programming my new device. :aetsch:

Using access to the living room as a reward is a great idea! There is a trick to it, too. Dogs don't understand most "delayed consequences". They don't link being scolded now with knocking over the garbage can 5 minutes ago, or being thirsty now with spilling the contents of their water bowl an hour ago. Robby will understand that the living room is his reward if you first teach him a cue that means "go in the living room", and then excitedly use that cue after he's pottied outside. And, of course, be sure to undo whatever measures you took to keep him out right away. If you tell him he's allowed but he doesn't know what that means, several moments later when he's in the living room, he won't know that it's *because* he did his business in the yard. Good luck with all this, btw! : )


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## Joelly

It's incredible that he never pees inside. So you done great on the potty training. He's pooped inside may have nothing to do with your training, it may just be a habit. Let's try and break it. I've thought of something you may want to try. 

Since the crating of the whole trouble area is not possible, how about put several lounge dog bed around this problem area? Plus some toys around. I thought this will help because a dog would not soil his own den and the lounge beds around plus toys around will tell him that this is my den so I won't soil there. Plus the toys might distract him from doing the bad deed there again.

Seems now you are armed with several arsenals, so I wish you good luck! Do keep us posted!


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## KidWhisperer

As a noob to housebreaking and dog ownership in general, I'm following this thread with great interest. Tossman, please let us know the outcome and what worked or didn't work for Robby. And God bless you for your love and dedication to your boy.


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## Carley's Mom

Dogs want to please you. Poodles are so smart. YOU CAN WIN THIS! And in no time you will become a Dog Person! LOL


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## Tossman

Just a quick update. We've been primarily focusing on integrating the living room into Robby's regular stomping grounds, both playing in there with him and allowing him to go there without a human and with limited supervision. Crossing our fingers, but so far, so good. No living room incidents since!

I think a major help from you all here has been the clarification on dog mindset. This was much easier to do once I realized that he was not doing it out of defiance or spite, but more likely just not understanding the rules. I'm hesitant to deem this an absolute success, but I think we're on the right track. I'll keep posting updates on this. Thanks again to everybody for the support and advice!


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## CT Girl

That is wonderful news. Thank you for updating us on what is going on.


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## Tossman

Thought you all might appreciate these:


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## Chagall's mom

The smile on your son's face says it all; Robby was meant for him! Best to you and your cute little boys. Glad things are going better!


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## CT Girl

The body language of both is very telling. Your son is beaming and has a nice gentle hold on Robby and Robby is relaxed with a little doggie smile of contentment. What a lovely photo.


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## Tossman

Thanks, Chagall's Mom and CT Girl!


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## Carley's Mom

Oh Yeah ! Dog Lover on forum... Love it!


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## Qarza

A boy and his dog! What else can I say. ❤❤❤


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## kcp1227

I've been following this thread. So glad you're seeing progress!!!

The pics of your son and Robby are adorable. So sweet 


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## lily cd re

I've been following this thread but hadn't posted until now because I thought others had already given you good advice. I am very happy to see that you feel you are making progress and have a better feel for why things were happening as they were. The look on your son's face says it all about why it is important for you to get this situation "cleaned up" so to speak. I am very happy for all of you and hope you continue to move in the right direction.


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## MollyMuiMa

The smile on your son's face says everything! The love for his dog is so evident!
And boy what a cutie your son is!!!
Glad it's all working out for you......The things we do for our kids huh!


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## Lene

Those pictures are adorable...

So happy to hear you're making progress...


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## katbrat

Glad to here things are going better. The picture of your son and his dog is priceless! If you stay around on Poodle Forum long enough, you just might find yourself a closet dog lover!


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## Dallasminis

I think all your hard work and everyones ideas are surely worth it for these two precious beings. God bless you and your family!


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## Joelly

OMGoodness! Thank you for posting the picture of your son and your poodle. They are definitely best pal! I love your son smiling in the picture. What a cute boy you have!

On training, you'd done superb. Robby is a poodle and he aims to please.  Thank you for the update. So glad for you.


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