# sporting clip in akc and ckc



## Dechi

I don't know but I want to thank you ! Now I know the name of my favorite clip! I kept calling it the puppy clip, because that's what it is, but now I get that the name for an adult is sporting clip ! ;-)


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## spindledreams

Grin Actually "puppy clip" is the most used name for short poodle clips and many have NO relationship to the actual AKC/UKC/CKC puppy clip. The sporting clip is described in the UKC standard and can be on any age dog. AKC exhibitors are far too in love with the big hair look for many to even be happy with the HCC being allowed to be shown. It would take a big change in leadership of the PCA to make such a drastic clip change as adding the sporting clip for regular classes. It is allowed at the Speciality in at least one class. 

To be honest I would LOVE to see them allow puppies to be shown in a Scandinavian/Second Puppy Clip. It would make such a difference in the amount of work to keep up a puppy coat AND would make our puppies look like the elegant little dogs they are instead of the humpbacked malformed creatures the current incarnation of the puppy clip looks like to me. AND it makes the perfect transition from a puppy coat to the elegant big hair clips. And those clips can be very elegant when done right.


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## CharismaticMillie

I don't see the sporting clip being allowed anytime soon if at all. Not to mention, you can do a lot of sculpting with a talented groomer and an inch of hair. At least with the continental the rears are exposed!


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## Bandit

There were several articles in PV over the years that made the case for allowing more clips. All did a fantastic job pointing out the many great advantages. I'm all in favor of the motion, but it's all up to the powers that be, of course.


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## poolann

IMO, the elitists of PCA are not going to allow more minimalist clips in the ring. Yes you can sculpt 1" of hair but shorter clips would force judges to actually evaluate structure more thoroughly. You can tell a lot about structure such as angulation & shoulder lay back by watching a dog's movement but actually being able to see/feel it would make a huge difference. UKC judges ime are very hands on with the dogs. I've had more than one go back & forth between Racer & a bitch when judging BOB. There was definitely evaluation going on in those instances.


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## MiniPoo

Not only would the shorter clips be easier to manage the care of show dogs, it would probably help improve the public image of poodles as fru fru dogs. I think it would be a win-win. Too bad it will never happen in the US.


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## Tiny Poodles

They should just shave them naked and truly let the best dog win ?


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## MiniPoo

Tiny Poodles said:


> They should just shave them naked and truly let the best dog win


Naked, fine, but leave a topknot. Even the Mexican hairless dog has hair on his head and tail.

_Correction: It is a Chinese Crested dog._


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## Countryboy

MiniPoo said:


> Not only would the shorter clips be easier to manage the care of show dogs, it would probably help improve the public image of poodles as fru fru dogs. I think it would be a win-win. Too bad it will never happen in the US.


Durn straight! The Fancies are responsible for the Doodle craze... 'coz NOBODY wants to associate with cartoon dogs. They want a real one.


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## CharismaticMillie

MiniPoo said:


> Naked, fine, but leave a topknot. Even the Mexican hairless dog has hair on his head and tail.


That photo would be a Chinese crested.


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## MiniPoo

CharismaticMillie said:


> That photo would be a Chinese crested.


I stand corrected. But you got the idea. It's a pretty naked dog.


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## sunshine

Just my opinion here... and i may be playing a bit of a devils advocate but, if you were to show poodles in a short clip why bother with leaving hair on any of the other breeds... why not clip them all down? No more long hair on the bearded collies, briards, afghan hounds, shih tzus, Yorkies, maltese, and ect.... I don't know to me it would seem that you'd be loosing a lot of what makes the different breeds special and distinct from each other. 
Like I said just my opinion


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## spindledreams

So full big hair Conti is more impressive and desirable to show the public then something like this beautiful HCC and this lovely sporting clip... 

Sigh not sure any of them lose the true attributes of a poodle... even that sporting clip has a lot of scissoring that goes into it and you must have a good coat for it to look good.


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## CharismaticMillie

It really doesn't help that you are comparing those two dogs to....Simon.


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## spindledreams

rofl of course not, he is a wonderful example of a poodle but was also the only photo on my computer of a typical AKC type clip. 

Of course what I was trying to ask is why is the shorter hair consider somehow less poodle then the extreme coat and topknot on Simon?


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## Tiny Poodles

MiniPoo said:


> Naked, fine, but leave a topknot. Even the Mexican hairless dog has hair on his head and tail.
> 
> _Correction: It is a Chinese Crested dog._



I will even give them bracelets, ear feather, and a Pom on their tail.
I just think that it is a shame how much grooming and cosmetics to correct faults are allowed in the ring - it allows terrible representatives of the breed to become champions and perpetuate their faults. I think that if poodles had to be shown with less coat and no cosmetics, you would see a rapid improvement in the breed.


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## Renai

The continental clip is the main thing that made me not want to get involved with poodles for a long time. I think it's actually an important issue, for one thing, because it gives these wonderful dogs a bad reputation as someone already pointed out, contributing to the doodle boom, which those poor dogs don't deserve, but also because it sets a high barrier of entry for the show ring and takes up a lot of peoples' time and money which may be better used in other ways. It also limits what you can do with your dog, and since I think standards belong in the sporting group with other retrievers, it's ridiculous to have such an impediment to working with your dog. One breeder I know got yelled at by another concerned breeder for letting their show dog swim in a lake because it would ruin his coat. That all just doesn't make sense to me. I'm a designer, so I have a religious conviction in putting function BEFORE form.

I believe the conformation ring should be a tool for getting feedback on breeding programs so people are encouraged and _enabled_ to breed increasingly better dogs. In any instance where it falls short of that, I think it's counterproductive and regressive. I think the requirement of the clip does the opposite of enabling people to participate in conformation and find great matches for their dogs, which hurts the gene pool and ruins opportunities for progress - just for aesthetic reasons. Even if it only has a tiny effect, excluding only a small percentage of great dogs and great potential poodle fanciers, that has a big impact as it compounds over decades.

Poodles look great and unique in many different styles, which I think makes them distinct from many other breeds, some of which are (cough) not much more than a pretty coat.


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## hunny518

I love the conti! I would be very disappointed if people were allowed to show in the sporting clip in AKC. The thing I love most about showing my girl is getting her ring ready and getting to use my skills to perfect her haircut! My girl has beautiful conformation and carriage, but her hair ties the whole look together!


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## hunny518

Here we are at our last show in portland


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## Renai

Why disappointed?


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