# Cartier Poodles



## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

No personal experience, sorry, but based only on what I see and don't see on their website, they'd be on my personal Pass list. 

What I do see re health on their website specifically is this:
_All puppies are checked by a licensed veterinarian from day one. Tails and dewclaws are professionally clipped at 3 days of age. All necessary vaccines are professionally administered and certified health certificates are issued at 8 weeks prior to shipping. _


A certificate of health on an 8 week old puppy is nice but gives no reassurance for their future. For that I look for testing on the dams and sires.


What I don't see is any mention of health testing of their breeding dogs before breeding and no mention of their goals for the future of their breeding program. What I don't see are beneficial goals for the breed thru their breeding program. 

Quoted from one of PF's well known and respected breeder/members:


farleysd said:


> When evaluating a dog for breeding I reference an equilateral triangle,,,,,, all three sides of this decision must be equal, the three sides are * health *temperament * conformation. Each are equally important:
> 
> Health -- I want a healthy dog in my life, I want my dog to live a long, happy, and carefree life. (Testing is important)
> Temperament -- My dog will live in my house with me and my family, I must have a good dog that I never worry will be disruptive in any manner. (Temperament testing is important)
> Conformation -- the make and shape of the dog also impacts 'form and function' form and function will also determine how this puppy will be able to move and live a daily existence. (Evaluation is important)


(more on that here Why the interest in "red" poodles)

The recommended testing for standard poodles is per the parent breed club, the Poodle Club of America. Those results are posted publicly on the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals site. 

*
Hip Dysplasia* (One of the following)
OFA Evaluation ➚
PennHIP Evaluation
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Health Elective* (One of the following)
OFA Thyroid evaluation from an approved laboratory ➚
OFA SA Evaluation from an approved dermapathologist ➚
Congenital Cardiac Exam ➚
Advanced Cardiac Exam ➚
Basic Cardiac Exam ➚
It's possible that they do these tests but don't post the results on OFA. 
They possibly run DNA panels thru an independent lab, which are helpful, but DNA testing isn't a substitute for the PCA recommended testing. 

On the Gooddog.com site they say this:

_Health Guarantee

We offer a 3 year health guarantee. *Our health guarantee covers any inheritable disease*. The puppies are also vet checked and guaranteed healthy at the time of purchase._

I'd really want to know how they back that guarantee up.


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## TK9NY (Jan 6, 2017)

I don't have any experience with them, but i did a quick google search and found their website: in a nut shell, it has very very very little information and what information there is doesn't tell me much at all. They would probably be a pass from me simply because there isn't any real info on the breeder, the dogs, etc etc. 

Which is curious. I would think someone trying to attract potential owners for their puppies would want to put as much information as possible to appeal to people browsing the web.....

The website was put up in 2017. Plenty of time to update it and set it up to have a ton more info. If they've only been breeding for that long, then they're relatively new. Not a total write off but i would be very cautious going with a new breeder, especially if they have no information available. What can they say they've done to prove they know what they are doing? Did they have any mentors? Work with other breeders? What is their experience with poodles in show, or work? They do mention that they've been training since the 80's but no mention of where they've worked, any titles put on their dogs, what they've trained dogs FOR, or their education/experience. No information at all on them beyond that, either. No mention of affiliation with any breed clubs, training clubs, groups, etc. 

They say at the top of the page "A Rare Quality Of Reds for Service, Obedience, Agility, Hunting, Show or Pets." but have no actual proof to back their claims that their dogs can be these things - no titles on the dogs being bred, no outline of the dogs working accomplishments, no mention of TDI affiliation, no pictures of the dogs at events, shows, etc. Facebook page has nothing in that regards either. No proud posts of their dogs doing anything other than looking pretty. No show pictures, no events, no work, nothing about therapy dogs or service dogs, nothing. So where do they get that their puppies are suitable for all these things? There is a picture of what looks like a show dog at the top but no indication of who the dog is or belongs to - everything that may be identifiable or if the dog won anything has been cropped out. Makes me think it's not one of theirs?

They say "All puppies are checked by a licensed veterinarian from day one. Tails and dewclaws are professionally clipped at 3 days of age. All necessary vaccines are professionally administered and certified health certificates are issued at 8 weeks prior to shipping" but they don't mention any genetic health testing on the parents, nothing about OFA or anything specific. On their facebook page they further mention "All our dogs are AKC DNA tested, vet checked, and tested for genetic health." but again list no specifics. Still no mention of OFA, no mention of what testing is done. Scrolling through the pictures i read some comments and anytime someone asks about health testing they get a vague "All our lines are thoroughly, successfully tested" but again no mention of what is tested for or how the testing is accomplished. 

I see no mention of a contract. No examples from one. I would be curious to see if they even HAVE one. I also see no mention of what their "health guarantee" actually is. Just that there is one. To me, it reads as a guarantee that the pups are healthy at time of sale but are not covered for anything down the line (like the genetic disorders i don't see being tested for). 

Also on their facebook they have SALES - $500 off for Thanksgiving, Black Friday sales.... YIKES. I don't know of a single reputable breeder who has "sales" on their puppies. Limerick's breeder will give me $100 back if i get him CGC and TDI certified. Some breeders may offer discounts to "repeat customers". But actual sales? Nope.

In short, i'm not that impressed. I would want to see specific results from actual genetic testing for the basics plus poodle-specifics. I would want a good contract and a genetic guarantee of at LEAST 2-3 years (minimum). I would want to see accomplishments on their dogs. If their dogs are as good as they say, i want to see it. I would want to know way more about them. I guess you could contact them and ask, but again - curious none of this information is readily available. Suggests it isn't there at all?


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

No personal experience, but between their website and their FB page, I'm not that impressed. My main question is "What do they do with their dogs besides breed them?".

They claim "A Rare Quality Of Reds for Service, Obedience, Agility, Hunting, Show or Pets", but don't have any information about their dogs' titles or work in those areas? Not even a formal stacked photo from a dog show. Just photos of little red puppy potatoes and a couple of poorly groomed adults.

They don't have any mention of health testing beyond the genetic testing and health certificate. The latter is a requirement in some area, and just states that a puppy has no obvious signs of communicable disease at the time it was issued, not that the puppy doesn't have genetic issues that won't show up until possibly years later.

A look at their FB page shows that the are placing their most popular sire in a "retirement home" at only 3.5 years of age. That sure seems like a young age to retire a stud dog with no reason mentioned.

They have the pedigree of one of their bitches on their FB page. Not a single conformation or performance title beyond two CGCs in the entire five generations, but lots of males who have a DNA number, which, unless they have been imported (which is unlikely, given the pedigree) usually means that they have sired enough litters that they are required to be profiled (3 in a calendar year or 7 in his lifetime). They also have a litter certificate, again with no titles in the pedigree.

And yeah, the whole "black Friday sale" thing... how many puppies do they have on the ground and on the way that they need to clear out the current inventory? I mean, Simon's breeder gave a discount to active and retired military personnel, but that's different from a "hey, we need to shift some puppies" sale.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

@Rosie's Mom, just to get everyone on the same page: You’ve already purchased a puppy from Cartier, correct? You’re just hoping to connect with other owners?

If so, you could try messaging some of the people who’ve posted on their Facebook page. It seems pretty active.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Just in case anyone out in the Universe reads this page who isn't a member, hoping the members might indulge me.

Pass in the context used here is the pass in the phrase "I'll take a pass on that opportunity", NOT pass as in "pass or fail". For anyone new to dogs, the excellent analyses above would not be considered laudatory of the referenced establishment.


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## Rosie's Mom (Aug 9, 2014)

PeggyTheParti said:


> @Rosie's Mom, just to get everyone on the same page: You’ve already purchased a puppy from Cartier, correct? You’re just hoping to connect with other owners?
> 
> If so, you could try messaging some of the people who’ve posted on their Facebook page. It seems pretty active.


 Yes we did and this puppy has issues. She came to us with infected ears and eyes and is very skittish. She is fine with us but afraid of anyone who comes in the house. Her dew claws were not removed and I think her tail was not docked properly. I have had 4 standards in the past 40 years. She also smelled so badly wew needed to bathe her. She does have a great relationship with our other dog a Portuguese Water Dog.

I called the AKC because they supposedly do investigations--no they were only interested in taking money to register the dog. My husband gets the feeling she isn't completely poodle!!


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