# When and how to say NO to humping?



## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

Puff Daddy the 10 month old intact spoo is a fan of the occasional hump. Fortunately, he is not a humping fanatic as some are. However, every now and then he gets pretty into it, and I am not sure at what point I should accept it as a part of his natural behavior (because I realize that it is very natural, especially at his age), and at what point do we simply draw the line because this is also a rude behavior. In Puffy's case, he doesn't hump anyone against their will, but some seem to stand and bear it. You know how it can go...

Now, I see some young males that are REALLY into humping. They will hump anything that moves and they are relentless. Puff Daddy is a bit more "selective", although this may be by no choice of his own. He has a gentle and sweet nature with humans and other dogs. He is usually quite polite and is happy to roll belly up for almost anyone. This soft, submissive and happy go lucky attitude is noticed by other K9s. Thus, it is rare that another dog would even begin to allow him to hump them, because they recognize that, despite his size, he is basically a large, foolish and easy-to-push-around baby who belongs towards the bottom of most pecking orders. If another dog tells Puffy off (which at his age seems to be all the time), he is quite responsive to that and he respects the space and wishes of others. 

Every now and then though, we will meet a dog that actually allows puffy to be dominant. This is a terrible error on the other dog's part, because Puffy is not accustomed to power in any way shape or form. So on the very rare blue moon that another dog is actually softer than him and allows him to think he is powerful, he will take advantage of the situation in the way that a spoiled seven year old might if they were suddenly appointed dictator of a weak and deteriorating nation.

He becomes a power drunken baby. 

This is when he pulls out his antics and he clumsily drinks in the rare opportunity to be top dog for a fleeting moment. At these times he may start pulling tricks like trying to hump, or generally just testing the limits and being a bit rude or pushy in a way he is usually not. The humping usually happens with neutered males. No respectable bitch would allow his clumsy advances near them in a million years. So it seems that certain boyfriends will do just fine instead. 

My take on the situation is that certain neutered males are perfect practice because they are feisty enough to spar a bit with him and get him excited, but not feisty enough to tell him to stop humping them relentlessly (not all neutered males by any means, just a select few). 

When he realizes that another beast will actually tolerate his humping, he becomes a ravenous addict and he cannot stop. I am thankful that this happens very rarely at this point. Maybe 1 in 50 dogs has potential to be Puffy's victim. 

For example, he has this one spitz boy friend (2 years old and lively) who just does NOT know how to say no to him, and Puffy really violates him badly. It's hard to watch. We run into them at the dog park every now and then and they are very happy to see each other, but somehow their play always deteriorates into Puffy obsessively and mechanically humping this poor animal. This dog just stands there and takes it. I can ask him to stop and he will, but once the game is on the game is ON. He keeps going back for more. It's like it isn't him anymore, but instead it is Puffy the sex crazed lunatic. Oh, and he doesn't care what side of a friend he is humping either. Be it face or be it bottom, all he knows is that he has a job to do...although he is clearly not sure what the job is. In the case of the spitz, the owner, an older man, is very tolerant of the situation. Personally, it is too much for me and after a few minutes I start trying to end it. The old man is always like, "oh, it's ok, let 'em go for it." But Puffy's unpracticed humping is so extreme and exaggerated that it is quite comical to watch and the old man and I both silently snicker to ourselves. Anyway, it is kind of embarrassing to watch this humiliating scene go down alone at the dog park with this old man. And i keep hoping that the friend will stand up for himself at some point. But he never does. 

I think that's another interesting point about the whole humping thing. It can be kind of awkward for the humans involved. The old man of the spitz doesn't care, but some people obviously don't want their dog getting humped around the block for 15 minutes straight so...it's an interesting psychological dance. You have to ask yourself, 'oh, does this person mind if Fifi is getting a good romping or not?" Read the expression on their face etc. and decide what the right strategic move is. 

There is one point of confusion with this spitz friend which I believe may come down to a language barrier. As some of you know, I am an American living in Finland. My Finnish is not great yet, actually it is pretty deplorable as most people in this tiny country are completely fluent in English. However, some older people are not. When I asked this older man once if his dog was a boy or a girl he was only able to communicate that "it used to be a boy. There was a sickness. There was a hospital. It used to be a boy." Now, I am assuming he means that it was neutered, but the statement "used to be a boy" seems a bit extreme to me. I always wonder if something more serious than a neuter went down. Anyway, we will never know the truth because the old man and I have serious communications barriers. Whatever the story is, this dog is Puffy's favorite practice buddy. 

Anyway, this happens with a few other friends of his. Puffy is very social and we live in an area with tons of other dogs. So in his 10 months he has literally met hundreds of different k9s. He must have at least 3 underlings in this world and those underlings are victims to his will. They will be pushed around and humped well (or poorly rather). 

You see this behavior often enough. Obviously it is very natural. But at what point do we accept our dogs humping as a natural expression, and at what point do we see it as a behavior that is rude to other dogs and that should not be reinforced. I see people yelling at their humping maniacs from time to time and trying to keep them off of other dogs, and I am not sure at what point it is futile, and at what point there is a point to it. 

Anyway, I work hard to ensure that my dog is not a bully and that he isn't rude to other dogs or people. Usually this isn't an issue with him due to his sweet and soft nature. But the occasional humping spree has me wondering at times how I can best guide him through this tumultuous and hormonal period. From my understanding, it is reasonable to tell your dog to stop humping...but they are so driven once they get into it! I have had a few times with this poor spitz where we just had to leave because it was too obsessive. 

So in your opinion, where do we draw the line, and what is the best way to handle a humper? How can we guide our young dogs so that they do not form a rude habit, while acknowledging that humping random friends from time to time is just a part of growing up?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Humping anyone, friend or not, from time to time or not, I don't care when, is unacceptable in my book ! You just say no firmly and push him away. And not let anyone one else tolerate it. He is your dog, you have the responsability to teach him manners.

Humping, biting, barking, soiling are all natural behaviors, but we need to teach our dogs when and where they are tolerated. An adult dog would not tolerate it from a puppy, there would be consequences. The puppy would be told once or twice and he would learn and stop. You need to take that role.

Sexuality is part of any living creature, but there are rules to it and it can't be done anywhere, anytime, with just anybody. Learning this is a big part of life too !


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

It is a game I discourage - it comes under the general heading of rude play that is likely to annoy other dogs and humans, and therefore eventually lead to trouble. Are you planning on breeding from him in due course? If so, I would seek advice from an experienced stud owner on how to ensure he retains his enthusiasm for the real thing - although in my (very limited) experience, dogs that know what they are about don't waste time and energy in practice play with non-fertile partners! I would treat it like any other annoyingly obsessive behaviour - interrupt and distract before he gets too focussed, offer alternative games and fun, if he keeps it up walk him away from the stimulus. Every time you let him continue you are reinforcing the game, so unless you intend to let him go on doing it with every dog that allows it, better take action now!


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

Yes, the idea is that he will probably have puppies eventually. It depends on how he develops and how his show career goes. 

At this point, the behavior happens so infrequently that I am not concerned about discouraging him from the real thing. It isn't like every day he is getting told off for humping. Maybe this occurs once a month where I have to shoo him off of someone, and if it proves unsuccessful we just leave. 

I have wondered, because my impression is that it is something you should stop as well. But a lot of people here look at me like there is something a bit wrong with me for wanting to interfere, and they have an attitude that it is really normal and the dogs can sort it out. 

In general, people don't interfere with dog relations unless one appears to really be suffering or is trying to escape.

Maybe that's a cultural thing. People here have very different attitudes about many things. The culture is deeply rooted in a 'live and let live.' mentality, and this might be reflected in how people view dog relations as well. 

Personally, I am more comfortable with your suggestions to just always say no.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I had one male poodle and I stopped his humping immediately, by calling his name and say no, stop in a stern voice. I had the dog 15 years and he was intact and no problems as time went by.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PuffDaddy said:


> Yes, the idea is that he will probably have puppies eventually. It depends on how he develops and how his show career goes.
> 
> At this point, the behavior happens so infrequently that I am not concerned about discouraging him from the real thing. It isn't like every day he is getting told off for humping. Maybe this occurs once a month where I have to shoo him off of someone, and if it proves unsuccessful we just leave.
> 
> ...


I have to say my answer was towards human humping. If your dog is humping dogs, I would let it go unless the other owner is embarrassed by it or if it lasts too long and becomes obsessive. But a little humping here and there among dogs is part of the game !

One day he's going to get told off and meet his master. Then the behavior should diminish.


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

LOL! No, thank goodness he would never hump a person! Excuse me if that was unclear. Oh man, I am so glad that I don't have a dog who humps people, that would be mortifying. He is very respectful with people, and also with other dogs 99% of the time as well. But he is ten months old so he has his moments where he acts a bit...silly. I try to stay abreast of his indiscretions in order to guide him down the right path in life but I realize that a boy of his age is going to act a bit wild at times. We do our best! 

It's more that every now and then he will get a bit humpy with one of his DOG boyfriends (who generally seem to participate willingly) and I realize that a bit of it might be normal, but I also see dogs his age and a bit older who really hump a lot, and I don't want him to become one of them! 

It is surely an obsessive behavior for some, and one shame is that when dogs are really into it it sort of limits their interactions with other dogs a bit because all they want to do is hump all day and they alienate every dog at the dog park. I don't want that for my boy! Fortunately it has not gotten to that point of even close to it, but I see that his hormones are awakening and he could have the propensity to go there if left unchecked over time. hat's why I wanted to throw it out there and see what people here have to say.

Anyway, I think I will stick to discouraging his humping of dogs for those reasons, but thank you for your clarification Dechi. I will surely never allow my boy to flush his life down the ever descending spiral of human humping. That is indeed a mortal sin!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PuffDaddy said:


> LOL! No, thank goodness he would never hump a person! Excuse me if that was unclear. Oh man, I am so glad that I don't have a dog who humps people, that would be mortifying. He is very respectful with people, and also with other dogs 99% of the time as well. But he is ten months old so he has his moments where he acts a bit...silly. I try to stay abreast of his indiscretions in order to guide him down the right path in life but I realize that a boy of his age is going to act a bit wild at times. We do our best!
> 
> It's more that every now and then he will get a bit humpy with one of his DOG boyfriends (who generally seem to participate willingly) and I realize that a bit of it might be normal, but I also see dogs his age and a bit older who really hump a lot, and I don't want him to become one of them!
> 
> ...


I am also on parrot forums and believe it or not, some owners let their birds do their business on them... Then a few months later, when they become tired of it and want to stop the bird, they are surprised the bird attacks them... People are strange sometimes. Glad to know your dog knows better !


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

I knew a mini poodle who would hump everybody who came to his home. He humped my arm and I raised it such that he was 4 feet(1.2m) in the air and upside down with his legs locked front and rear about my arm. He left a disgusting mess on my sweater before desisting. With most dogs humping is just dominance and needs to be controlled. It is not confined to males or intact males. Just as in dog/human humping dog/dog humping is considered rude by other dogs. There are better ways for a dog to be assertive.
Eric.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

> While it is most often attributed to “dominance,” nothing could be further from the truth. Dominance refers to priority access to a resource, and I have yet to see a dog use humping to gain access to food, toys, space, or anything else tangible. So, why do dogs hump? Here are the most common motivations behind humping in dogs:


Here's the rest of the article.

https://paws4udogs.wordpress.com/2013/12/02/why-dogs-hump-spoiler-alert-its-not-all-about-dominance/

My dogs all hump from time to time. Usually, it's one trying to get the other one to play I think. If the other humpee doesn't like it, he usually can tell the humper to go away. If that doesn't work and one is getting too bugged, and if I'm standing right there, I'll body block and get the humper interested in another activity. I would step in sooner in the case of a human but they don't do that to humans.

Some experts think play is used as practice for real life behaviors that may have something to do with survival. In the case of humping, it may be practice for sex but it's a play behavior at this point. There are some other possibilities as well mentioned in the article.


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

Eric, fortunately Puff Daddy has not completely joined the dark side in the lewd manner that you have described. If he was orgasming on our guests and ruining their clothes we would have to put him to sleep. Just kidding! 

Poodlebeguiled, I have also figured it must be a play/practice thing as well since all mammals use 'real life' behaviors in their play in order to practice for the future. Especially young ones. To imagine that two willing adolescents would occasionally engage in some practice humping together doesn't sound terribly far fetched in my understanding of mammal relations! One funny thing is that it is ALWAYS another boy in our case, and I think this may be because the bitches are just not willing to let him practice on them! 

Unfortunately, that link you posted isn't working for me so I can't read it. 

Sometimes I will see just a few humps between him and his best friend; 13 month old medium poodle with higher energy and a higher penchant for humping. And these don't last long enough to become obsessive so they seem like a normal part of the game. I see the medium poodle give Puffy a few humps, for example, when Puffy has a ball and won't share it. Actually, funny thing is, contrary to the quote in the article, he ALWAYS humps Puffy in order to gain access to a resource. However, it always fails. The medium poodle is smaller and in most ways the submissive one. The one card he has to throw on the table is humping his big friend. Puffy is never put off by this and just walks away with the resource in his mouth until his little friend falls off. And then the friend cries and stares at Puffy having a grand time with the desired resource, because the little one has no other tricks up his sleeve and he is frustrated that humping didn't work...again. 

Puffy vaguely tolerates it but never for more than a moment and it's over. That all seems pretty normal. What seems excessive is how some dogs become very obsessive about humping at times, it's almost like a certain hypnotic mood sets in. I have seen this a few times with Puffy and the spitz. In those cases it just seemed compulsive and we had to leave eventually because he was unstoppable. 

I also see Puffy get humped occasionally at the dog park by young, dominant male dogs, and I would be really surprised if there were no aspect of dominance going on there just by all of the other posturing that is going on (they push him over, put their head over his back etc.) Puff, usually the submissive who avoids conflict at all costs, generally rolls Belly up and plays dead when there is one of these personalities around heckling him. This often deters the humping....Sometimes it does not!

But with this spitz, for example, it looks like that poor dog is just a victim Puffy learning to masturbate. There aren't other postures going on before or after suggesting that it's about dominance. Also, the spitz seems to participate willingly. Or maybe it is just that he REALLY doesn't care. 

Anyway, it seems that the colorful world of humping is full of shades of grey.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Or, of course, it could simply be that it feels good... My females play humping games when their hormones push them that way, for a few days in each cycle; it seems to be a case of faute de mieux. Sophy is prone to wanting to play them when she is bored and under exercised - I redirect to another game.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Humping is most usually (but not always) a form of dominance. It is not confined to males. Gracie (my standard black poodle) girl, has always humped. She will do it to dominate another dog. She will do it to me (rooting the boot) and is told it is not allowed. It is natural and is found in many species. It is my belief that dominance play is not a social positive. I do not encourage it. Resource guarding is another dominance behavior. It is to be discouraged. In animal behavioral psychology you will find conflicting views with academics. With dog owners, besotted by their pseudo-children, these views can become heated. Suffice to say, discouraging this behavior will not give puff any problems procreating. The primal urge is paramount in all species.
Eric


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Puff Daddy...try typing in.... Why Dogs Hump (Spoiler Alert: it’s not all about dominance) The link works for me so there's something else going on. It's a good article.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

PuffDaddy, thank you for yet another extremely entertaining post! You should have a blog if you don't already.


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

I have done some independent humping research. This is a statement I never thought I would make, but life can be surprising. Indeed, there are MANY varied reasons that dogs hump.

FJM, your statement that it probably feels good is spot on. That seems to be a consensus in the humping research community! Somehow, it is not terribly surprising. But it's nice to know that science has confirmed that humping feels good...even for dogs. 

What a headline! What a breakthrough discovery! The world will never be the same now that we know this. 

Here is just one article from Web MD. It is not the only article or source of information out there. But it is unbiased and it's quite thorough. It covers a lot of information including that grey area as to when it is normal, and when it is unhealthy. 

Dog Mounting, Humping, & Masturbation Causes

Basically, a little attempt here and there is a normal part of the learning process and of being a mammal in general. But humping is not an appropriate habit or lifestyle. No one should be addicted and humping all of their friends or humping some friends all the time etc. It is not something one should "get into", as it makes a poor hobby.

If Puffy has a chance to meet that spitz again and he looses his manners in that obsessive fashion, I will try to distract him with something better to do. if it really doesn't work then he will have to be told "no" and removed from the situation right away if he won't stop, regardless of the old man's opinion. As most of us have agreed, humping shouldn't be reinforced as it is one of those things that has potential to be expressed as a bad or neurotic behavior, which is obviously to be avoided. 

Yesterday, he tried to hump a much smaller senior bitch a few times at the dog park (oh man, our boy is a loser). She didn't like it but was too small to really tell him off, so we put a stop to it right away. It seemed to work and he got the message. If the dog can't deliver it, then we will. Distraction towards something more fun is the first step, so it isn't always a negative experience. 

We will keep that policy going. When it comes to humping, No heckling and No hobby-ing!

Thank you all for this enlightening conversation.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

And if that doesn't work, take a fly swatter and smack him with it. If that doesn't work, there is always a prong collar or a shock collar. Then really let 'em have it. You have to be the leader of the pack, the alpha and you must constantly remind him of his place...at the very bottom of the hierarchy that dogs have because wolves have. And this is what alphas do. And you can also help this by walking through a door first, eating a cracker before he eats and be sure to use a stern voice and say, "No!" because this is what wolves do, doncha know.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

Anybody else have girl dogs who hump? That always seems especially weird, since it's not like it's their normal sexual behavior. But Cleo humps her toys, her bed, and sometimes Archie. My husband and I joke about how "Stop humping your brother!" is something we never thought we'd have to say...


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

lisasgirl said:


> Anybody else have girl dogs who hump? That always seems especially weird, since it's not like it's their normal sexual behavior. But Cleo humps her toys, her bed, and sometimes Archie. My husband and I joke about how "Stop humping your brother!" is something we never thought we'd have to say...


Yes Bella never humped until I got Cayenne. She has a pink teddy bear that is larger than her, she will hump, which I stop immediately. Never humps dogs or humans, just that teddy bear when playing. And she will take all toys away from Sage and Cayenne even if she is playing with one. So I feel strongly it is showing her as the dominate dog. She now has to sit on the couch while I play with the other 2 as they won't play if she is on the floor. I play with her first. They sleep together, eat side by side, ride in the car set (2 in one) and next time they switch.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> And if that doesn't work, take a fly swatter and smack him with it. If that doesn't work, there is always a prong collar or a shock collar. Then really let 'em have it. You have to be the leader of the pack, the alpha and you must constantly remind him of his place...at the very bottom of the hierarchy that dogs have because wolves have. And this is what alphas do. And you can also help this by walking through a door first, eating a cracker before he eats and be sure to use a stern voice and say, "No!" because this is what wolves do, doncha know.


Yes I agree that fly swatter works wonders and hurts their feelings and not their body. I would not care for a pronged collar or shock collar. I agree with you only one can be the leader of the pack, and that should be the one doing the training. I never let my dogs go through a door before me in case of danger since they are so small, or may run into traffic. And they always eat after me, as sometimes if I have chicken I will include a little of that in their food. NO used to be a word used often in this household, but it is very seldom needed anymore, a stern voice does get their attention, as poodles can tell different tones, and quickly get the idea to stop what they are doing.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

glorybeecosta said:


> Yes Bella never humped until I got Cayenne. She has a pink teddy bear that is larger than her, she will hump, which I stop immediately. Never humps dogs or humans, just that teddy bear when playing. And she will take all toys away from Sage and Cayenne even if she is playing with one. So I feel strongly it is showing her as the dominate dog. She now has to sit on the couch while I play with the other 2 as they won't play if she is on the floor. I play with her first. They sleep together, eat side by side, ride in the car set (2 in one) and next time they switch.


Cleo also has a tendency to steal/hoard toys (she'll even take a toy from Archie sometimes and just lie on it - not play with it or chew on it - just show him that she has it and he can't get it), so I do wonder if they're related behaviors.


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

glorybeecosta said:


> She has a pink teddy bear that is larger than her, she will hump


That might also just be good old fashioned masturbation. Dogs of both sexes do it sheerly because it feels good, and that bear sounds like an ideal target if there ever was one!


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Puff Daddy, she is 14 and was fixed at 15 months, and never did it ever until 1.5 years ago when I got Cayenne, that is what suprised me.


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