# Help! Does anyone knows what color she is?



## Vitor (Dec 12, 2019)

This is the newborn:









These are her parents:









The breeder says the puppy is apricot but I'm doubtful... maybe cafe au lait or silver beige?
My mother-in-law had two cream poodles that she lost recently (both of old age) - I'm looking for a puppy for my wife, but I *don't* want it to look too much like them. If anyone with experience with poodle newborns could help, I'd appreciate it a lot.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

She looks like a cream to me. A verrrry very cute little cream.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Vitor said:


> This is the newborn:
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> ...


Both silver beige and cafe au lait are born a darker brown, I'd say cream


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## Vitor (Dec 12, 2019)

Thanks for the responses, guys - I thought creams had black noses, is that not always the case?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Vitor said:


> Thanks for the responses, guys - I thought creams had black noses, is that not always the case?


I did a Google image search for newborn cream poodles and saw lots of pink noses. Maybe at such a young age, this is normal?


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

Vitor said:


> Thanks for the responses, guys - I thought creams had black noses, is that not always the case?


My understanding is that pink is lack of pigment, whereas when/if there is pigment, it will be liver (as in cafe au lait) or black. So at this point that pup has neither.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Vitor said:


> This is the newborn:
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> ...


I know she looks cream, but if the breeder calls apricot, I’m going to respect that.


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## Charlie's Person (Dec 9, 2018)

Vitor said:


> This is the newborn:
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> ...


Aww! Thanks for sharing. Never seen a newborn poodle

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## Vitor (Dec 12, 2019)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I did a Google imagine search for newborn cream poodles and saw lots of pink noses. Maybe at such a young age, this is normal?





Starvt said:


> My understanding is that pink is lack of pigment, whereas when/if there is pigment, it will be liver (as in cafe au lait) or black. So at this point that pup has neither.


That makes a lot of sense - thanks! I'll post more photos here as she grows.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

She is a cute puppy, all puppies are cute. But both parents have poor conformation. Does this breeder do any health testing ? Just so you don’t end up with a dog who will cost a lot of money and heartache...


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## Charlie's Person (Dec 9, 2018)

Dechi said:


> She is a cute puppy, all puppies are cute. But both parents have poor conformation. Does this breeder do any health testing ? Just so you don’t end up with a dog who will cost a lot of money and heartache...


Wow. I assume you looked at the photo of the parents and saw something. After your comment I looked again. Was it the front feet that point outwards? So impressed by your keen eye.

I am a total newbie on dog conformation, just got really lucky with the pup I bought. No interest in showing him, but I've had numerous people who say they are professional handlers tell me my dog is outstanding. He moves like a champion dressage horse, as if he is floating.

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## kartio (Dec 13, 2019)

Awww such a cute pup!!!


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## Vitor (Dec 12, 2019)

Dechi said:


> She is a cute puppy, all puppies are cute. But both parents have poor conformation. Does this breeder do any health testing ? Just so you don’t end up with a dog who will cost a lot of money and heartache...


He does, but should I ask for a test in particular? I'm no looking for a show dog, just a companion, is poor conformation indicative of serious health problems?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Vitor said:


> should I ask for a test in particular? I'm no looking for a show dog, just a companion, is poor conformation indicative of serious health problems?


Here’s a link to look at tests needed. Even if you’re not looking for a show companion, both parents have poor fronts, which means their puppies most probably do as well. This will might an effect on the dogs ability to walk for long periods, run, jump and even make them more susceptible to breaking bones.

Toy poodles are notorious for having problems with their patellas and eyes. Some poorly bred dogs will require surguries on both knees, some will have to have eye surgery. Ask Twyla on this forum. She didn’t know better when she bought her first dogs and she has spents thousands and thousands of dollars on her dogs and the dogs themselves have suffered a great deal. For her last boy, even though she didn't want to show, she went with a show breeder because she knew the dog would be structurally sound. She couldn’t be happier with him.

I would really reconsider this breeder, you can do so much better and it will coat you a lot less in the long run, even if a little more upfront.









Health Testing for Toy Poodles?


Well, I've been leaning toward getting a toy poodle lately after a lot of volleying back and forth between that and a mini. I'm thinking a toy would fit my life style better probably. Anyhow, in researching breeders, I'm wondering about health testing. What kinds of things should they test...




www.poodleforum.com


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

Puppies aren’t usually born with the pigment that they are going to end up. These are all shades of apricot.










Same puppies a bit older. Though the darker one looks red she isn’t. The boy close to the flowers is a cream.









There is a new intensity gene test at Vetgen that if your dog has one copy it will stay apricot, 2copies will be cream, 0 copies the dog will stay red unless there is silver in the genes ( which there isn’t a test for). I’m getting my girl tested ( white paws puppy) as I’m too impatient to find out. She’s golden like her Daddy but if she got 2(I) genes she will fade to look like her mom. Still a apricot just a faded one. The boy you can tell is cream because all his roots are cream..the underside of his red ears are cream whereas my girl has golden hair in the same place.

The boy’s pic below ( you can see the shading on his nose turning if you look close). You can see how white his face his when he is older. The inside of his ears match. My girl looks like she has light face when first shaved ( which she is usually shaved once a week) but as soon as it grow out a little you can see the yellow shading to it.


















So a puppy first born it’s very hard to tell between a light apricot or cream.


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## Vitor (Dec 12, 2019)

Here is she a week later:


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Charlie's Person said:


> I assume you looked at the photo of the parents and saw something. After your comment I looked again. Was it the front feet that point outwards?


Yes, both parents have feet going east and west, and a weird front because of it. They also look like they have a long body and the head is not great either. I’m certainly not a pro but it looks like poor conformation to me. Some might say it’s only aesthetics, but there is much more than because poor conformation might lead to structural problems too.


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

I agree with the parents legs. In an ideal world all poodles would have perfect conformation but they all have something they can fix. If a breeder was trying to improve her lines /poodle breed those two with both a bad front should not have been bred togetherif at all). Most likely the pups will be the same. I could see bad knees happening with legs/feet turning opposite direction putting all that stress on the joints. My son constantly tries to walk like that on purpose and I’m always after him because I don’t want him to have bad knees or arthritis.

The pup still looks apricot or cream . Time will tell after 3-4 weeks and a face shave.


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## Vitor (Dec 12, 2019)

Thanks for the answers, guys!


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## Charlie's Person (Dec 9, 2018)

Dechi said:


> Yes, both parents have feet going east and west, and a weird front because of it. They also look like they have a long body and the head is not great either. I’m certainly not a pro but it looks like poor conformation to me. Some might say it’s only aesthetics, but there is much more than because poor conformation might lead to structural problems too.


This is our first Poodle and I am so grateful for the advice people on this site have generously shared.

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## Charlie's Person (Dec 9, 2018)

Mel said:


> I agree with the parents legs. In an ideal world all poodles would have perfect conformation but they all have something they can fix. If a breeder was trying to improve her lines /poodle breed those two with both a bad front should not have been bred togetherif at all). Most likely the pups will be the same. I could see bad knees happening with legs/feet turning opposite direction putting all that stress on the joints. My son constantly tries to walk like that on purpose and I’m always after him because I don’t want him to have bad knees or arthritis.
> 
> The pup still looks apricot or cream . Time will tell after 3-4 weeks and a face shave.


Maybe the poodles are ballet dancers? After years of intensive study in ballet, this is how our daughter would stand at rest. Turnout is desirable in ballet dancers. Maybe not so much in poodles 

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## Charlie's Person (Dec 9, 2018)

Mel said:


> Puppies aren’t usually born with the pigment that they are going to end up. These are all shades of apricot.
> 
> View attachment 463054
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First time I have seen such baby poodles. Thanks for sharing! 

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## Vitor (Dec 12, 2019)

Here is she, now almost 4 weeks old. Her points have turned completely black, looking like a cream to me.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Maybe the poodles are ballet dancers? After years of intensive study in ballet, this is how our daughter would stand at rest. Turnout is desirable in ballet dancers. Maybe not so much in poodles

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Desirable in dancers, definitely not in poodles! It is a major conformation fault. 

I think the puppy is cream, but what do I know LOL Here is my cream spoo






when he was 5 weeks old, still living with the breeder.


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## Vitor (Dec 12, 2019)

6 week old now, definitely looking like a very light cream. So cute!


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## Nora787 (30 d ago)

Vitor said:


> This is the newborn:
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Hi! Could I know who the breeders are? I’m trying to get a puppy and was sent that exact same picture of the parent of the puppy! Now I’m scared its a scam!


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

This thread was started in 2019. The puppy in the photo would be an adult dog by now. Yes, it is very suspicious if someone is showing you that exact picture.


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## Audi (Aug 3, 2021)

A baby!! 🥰


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Nora787 said:


> Now I’m scared its a scam!


If you're comfortable linking the breeders website, we might be able to review the site to offer opinions based on what we see there.

Another way one of our members has discovered some questionable sites is to copy some phrasing that's a bit unusual into and search to see if the exact phrase comes up on other sites.

Here's her method (credit to PeggyTheParti):

_copy and paste a small block of text from the website into google (adding quotation marks). I choose something that doesn't specifically mention poodles, but ideally has lots of marketing adjectives, such as bragging about how "the cute and precious puppies are raised in a warm and loving family home."

There will always be exceptions, but some of the most egregious scammers and puppy brokers show up this way, using identical text across multiple websites, each masquerading as an independent breeder.

Here's an example:_


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Lots of sketchy results for that puppy pic.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I didn't do something right on my 1st search but on my second try, I selected "pages with this image" and saw this from a reddit several years ago and the PF post.

[deleted by user] : poodles (reddit.com)

Word for word, same date. The parents picture link still works as does the one with the two older poodles.










What's odder is that when I click on any of these duplicated photos from my second search, that actual photo doesn't appear on but one site. Could it just be a "placeholder/template" for the image search?
The site links are funky at best and may not go to the same site that clicking on the photo took me to. None looked like breeders or broker sites (yes, I know...bad idea. I stopped at three)










So, except for the reddit post which might be the same person (different UN and Brazil flag on PF, also updated posts several times), this is all very odd.

Honestly, if you'd be comfortable naming the breeder for us to review, that could clear things up better than trying to puzzle thru this.


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