# It's on you (to be your dog's advocate)



## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

_"I think we need to start him on Science Diet." _

Many of us have heard our vets utter those words and cringed. I know I did. I looked at her and said, _"I'm sorry, but there's no way in hell my dog is eating that crap."_ I know, that wasn't particularly eloquent or polite but I was fed up with the same old standby line. But my file already contains the terms "difficult" and "bitch." Okay, so I have no proof but I'm pretty sure it's in there somewhere! 

A little backstory: I adopted Merlin, a retired stud dog, this past July. He passed his vet exam with flying colors with one exception. He had advanced periodontal disease. He underwent a dental and lost most of his teeth so I had to alter his diet (previously raw). 

He started on what my other two MPOOS ate: a veg/fruit mix, and rotated cooked proteins (chicken, turkey, beef, buffalo, salmon/whitefish, occasional lamb, pork or rabbit) along with eggs / cottage cheese / cheese and organ meats three times per week, topped with kefir/yogurt and supplements (calcium/phosphorous, vit/min, probiotic, EFAs, etc.).

He was doing really well up until about a month or so ago when he started having loose, mucous-encased stools. This coincided with a week's worth of torrential rains so I automatically thought _bacteria_, even though I wipe their feet when they enter the house. I took in a stool sample and it tested negative. The dreaded "Science Diet" words were uttered by the vet tech and I declined. So the vet prescribed Pro-Pectalin (a probiotic/anti-diarrheal you can buy online). I suggested he might need to be dewormed considering his background. We tried that to no avail. I also tried a modified raw diet but it didn't improve his stool as much as I'd have liked. Nothing was working*.The next step was Metronazidole (an antibiotic). 

His stools became solid. Voila! Right? Wrong. The day after he stopped the meds, his stools were loose again. The vet called me for regular updates so I told her of this latest development, and of course that brings us back to the first sentence of this post. 

I told the vet I wanted to try it my way first. So, I researched Colitis, holistic high fiber foods and jotted down the ingredients and came up with my own concoction. It's essentially what my dogs eat but I increased the fiber content with brown rice, peas, and ground flaxseed. I pureed his food in the food processor to make it easier to digest.

Guess what? He has solid poo. For three days now. We're still not out of the woods but we're making progress. And I didn't have to resort to feeding him garbage in a can! So the moral of this long story is that it's okay to second guess your vet. Mine would tell me if I was putting my pups in danger, something I'd never do. He will have a follow-up exam here shortly to make sure all is well. I hope this helps anyone else going through the same thing with their Poos/dogs. 

[*My vet believes Merlin has colitis (inflammation of the intestines) as opposed to a food allergy. I hope to try him on the various proteins now that we have solid poop! I'm a firm believer in rotating proteins for many reasons.  ]


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Thanks, Rowan.....my last vet sold Science Diet and I confess that I used it, which I haven't in some years. When I asked him about feeding liver to my poo with diabetes, he said, "What's liver, a protein?" And I laughed out loud! He was a good vet, but he didn't know anything about nutrition. :act-up:


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

Good for you for standing up and saying no!!! Last time Dusty was in to the vet, they told my mom that he was a little chubby...he needed to lose around a pound or so, which isn't a lot, but its important that the breeds with long backs\short legs stay especially slim and trim.  Of course, the tech immediately suggested their SD high fiber formula. My mom ended up buying some, but I made her take it back....convinced her that I could a) find a higher fiber food that didn't have an ingredient list starting with corn and b) it would be cheaper if she went with the food I suggested.  OF course, the food I found for her worked just as well. I haven't weighed Dusty recently, but his ribs feel perfect AND he's not scratching himself to death, which I think would have been the outcome of the SD experiment. He tends towards being itchy, so...there is always something better then SD and there is nothing wrong with telling the vet so.


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## cliffdweller (Jan 31, 2011)

Good for you Rowan ! I too have had similar experience, past and present (... am still holding off on Rain's potential eyelid surgery, watching it carefully).

Although I've just been researching it, and only feed a partial raw diet at present, I am wondering if increasing the amount of bone (perhaps via bone meal, in Merlin's case) might help a bit ? Perhaps you have already done this ?

Thank you for reinforcing my courage in various disagreements with the Vets, and best wishes to you and Merlin.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

nu2poodles said:


> Good for you Rowan ! I too have had similar experience, past and present (... am still holding off on Rain's potential eyelid surgery, watching it carefully).
> 
> *Although I've just been researching it, and only feed a partial raw diet at present, I am wondering if increasing the amount of bone (perhaps via bone meal, in Merlin's case) might help a bit ? Perhaps you have already done this ?*
> 
> Thank you for reinforcing my courage in various disagreements with the Vets, and best wishes to you and Merlin.


Hey there, and thank you!
I tried adjusting the amount of bone but I'm really limited in what I can feed him due to his lack of teeth. (He only has 4 canines, a few incisors, one premolar and 2 molars...or something like that.  ) He was still on the loose side even with the "prepared" raw diets. From what I've seen, the bone meal and ground bone don't have the same effect as actual bone, at least not with Merlin for some reason. Do any other raw feeders notice this? (It's also possible it was the actual protein, but that's another research experiment for another day.)

I haven't ruled anything out, but for now I just want my boy to have solid poop and a calm stomach. 

How are Rain's eyes? She looks great in her recent pics!


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

So sorry you are having some health issues with your little guy. Do you know about "slippery elm powder" ? That would be the best thing for his intestines. Also, good old oatmeal would help. I can't believe all the trash sold in the U.S.A. as "dog food". And some of your wealthest, most educated people buy that ****. I see this first hand with my work being in other people's homes. It always amazes me how little people even think about what they put into their own mouths, or their kids, and the pets are for sure not given any thought too. I guess, I have outed myself... I am a bit of a health nut. LOL


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

Glad to hear Merlin is doing better. Vibes for continued improvement. Such a lucky pup to have a caring, informed, assertive mom.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

My vet is adamant about Royal Canin Dental DS. I started to ask him what his opinion was on the safety of feeding raw bones to my girls (since they are gobblers) and he interrupted me immediately with his promo of Royal Canin Dental DS. I said, okay I get the dental benefits but what about the quality of the food? He said, "it's good. You don't need anything else."


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

I was using Royal Canin until I realized that the 4th ingredient or so is corn, have learned better, and now feed grain-free. :act-up:


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## cliffdweller (Jan 31, 2011)

Rowan said:


> ...
> I haven't ruled anything out, but for now I just want my boy to have solid poop and a calm stomach.
> 
> How are Rain's eyes? She looks great in her recent pics!


I know you are doing everything possible for Merlin, and I know how frustrating these elusive gastrointestinal disturbances can be.

The condition of Rain's eye has regressed a bit since the spay, but I am hoping it will continue to improve as before (it was normal about 80% of the time before spay). The big hangup for me is that, so far, I do not have a satisfactory answer as to the cause of the condition (Spastic Entropion). Without that, I believe we could do surgery and alleviate this symptom, without relieving the cause (so her eye might be irritated, but because it's been "fixed", no longer "entropic"[?]). So I am hesitant to do the surgery, but may have to do it anyway in the end, whether or not a cause is determined.

It has occurred to me that, with my lack of experience, some of this could be a hair issue. Poor Rain has an enormous amount of hair, and I am inept at dealing with it. But I am working on it ...

Wishing you and Merlin the best !


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

nu2poodles said:


> I know you are doing everything possible for Merlin, and I know how frustrating these elusive gastrointestinal disturbances can be.
> 
> The condition of Rain's eye has regressed a bit since the spay, but I am hoping it will continue to improve as before (it was normal about 80% of the time before spay). The big hangup for me is that, so far, I do not have a satisfactory answer as to the cause of the condition (Spastic Entropion). Without that, I believe we could do surgery and alleviate this symptom, without relieving the cause (so her eye might be irritated, but because it's been "fixed", no longer "entropic"[?]). So I am hesitant to do the surgery, but may have to do it anyway in the end, whether or not a cause is determined.
> 
> ...


My sister's phantom MPOO had to have the "entropian" surgery. He's a _very _hairy poodle too---hairy ears, thick/curly coat and hairy paws (more so than usual). She decided to grow out his topknot when she saw mine as that keeps the hair from curling into his eyes. It's a pain to grow out but once it's long, so easy to keep out of their eyes/face.  

I hate these idiopathic health conditions. It must be our innate "desire" to fix things. So frustrating when you can't just research it and make it better. 

Best to you and Rain too! (Thank you!)


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## cliffdweller (Jan 31, 2011)

Rowan said:


> My sister's phantom MPOO had to have the "entropian" surgery. He's a _very _hairy poodle too---hairy ears, thick/curly coat and hairy paws (more so than usual). She decided to grow out his topknot when she saw mine as that keeps the hair from curling into his eyes. It's a pain to grow out but once it's long, so easy to keep out of their eyes/face.
> ...
> Best to you and Rain too! (Thank you!)


Yes, I think you are right, and I am letting it grow (~~~ everyday a bad hair day ...). I am also trying to get her "eyebrows" (wild hairs) back to their full length. I feel uncomfortable about cutting these off of the dog; alas, I must forego the whiskers...something that never crossed my mind when I ventured into this breed ! I absolutely love the dog ...

Thanks !


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

I just wanted to report that Merlin is doing well. In fact, he'd doing great. I'm still seeing SOLID poop. 

If anyone else out there has a dog with Colitis, IBS, IBD, etc., I'd love to hear your experiences. 

I'd like to thank everyone here. It really helps to have a support network of poodle enthusiasts. I find that outside of family, not many of my friends and colleagues "get it."


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## cliffdweller (Jan 31, 2011)

Rowan said:


> I just wanted to report that Merlin is doing well. In fact, he'd doing great. I'm still seeing SOLID poop.
> 
> If anyone else out there has a dog with Colitis, IBS, IBD, etc., I'd love to hear your experiences.
> 
> I'd like to thank everyone here. It really helps to have a support network of poodle enthusiasts. I find that outside of family, not many of my friends and colleagues "get it."


Good to hear Merlin is getting back to normal !


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Thanks Rowan. Also, instead of paying around $1 pill from vet for Metronazidole you can get at Pet Supplies | Dog and Cat Supplies | Vaccines | Revival Animal Health for a fraction of that. Yep, when Sunny was having loose stools when I first got him (it is still back and forth with stresses, food, etc.) the vet sgugested Science Diet ID or something like that........gimme a break.


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

Rowan said:


> I just wanted to report that Merlin is doing well. In fact, he'd doing great. I'm still seeing SOLID poop.
> 
> If anyone else out there has a dog with Colitis, IBS, IBD, etc., I'd love to hear your experiences.
> 
> I'd like to thank everyone here. It really helps to have a support network of poodle enthusiasts. I find that outside of family, not many of my friends and colleagues "get it."


So happy to hear he's doing well.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

liljaker said:


> Thanks Rowan. Also, instead of paying around $1 pill from vet for Metronazidole you can get at Pet Supplies | Dog and Cat Supplies | Vaccines | Revival Animal Health for a fraction of that. Yep, when Sunny was having loose stools when I first got him (it is still back and forth with stresses, food, etc.) the vet sgugested Science Diet ID or something like that........gimme a break.


I ended up getting it from Coscto one time for much cheaper, but then it seems most pharmacies only carry the capsules and not the pills. Thanks for the link! I've bought stuff from them before but had no idea they carried meds.


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