# No Tail Wagging?



## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

maybe timi thinks you don't speak tail wag, since you haven't responded to all the other messages she has sent using tail talk? :behindsofa:
also, she has met many dogs so far, right? is this the first on which she has used the wag? maybe she figured he needs more help communicating than other dogs. btw, there is research out there that says the direction in which a dog wags its tail means different things. i forget which is which, but the info is out there.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

patk said:


> maybe timi thinks you don't speak tail wag, since you haven't responded to all the other messages she has sent using tail talk? :behindsofa:
> also, she has met many dogs so far, right? is this the first on which she has used the wag? maybe she figured he needs more help communicating than other dogs. btw, there is research out there that says the direction in which a dog wags its tail means different things. i forget which is which, but the info is out there.



First one that I noticed, but I have to pay more attention. But gee, she sees Teaka wagging at me all day long, since apparently she knows how, you would think she would give it a try... She will bark at me when she is trying to tell me something, she will do fast spins when dinner is coming, why no wags?


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

I have a dog that doesn't wag at me. Well, she never wagged when I could see it, but my daughter says that she wags her whole back half when she sees me. 
Usually, when I am messing with her, she's all sorts of serious. She also doesn't have much of a tail - some yahoo bobbed it off.  (She's an ACD, BTW.)


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Awwww, I have no doubt Patk is absolutely correct. Timi's tail is sky high to you at all times because she is so happy and proud to be in your family .

Oliver didn't wag that much at me for a long time. In the last several months as I have been relating to him in some slightly different ways, the tail is wagging a good deal. It's a relief, especially since for so long he was sure I had stolen him from his *real* family (the ones that posted him for rehoming on CL, but we won't tell him that).

So I kinda understand, but in your case Timi has been yours and with you from the beginning, so my guess is she figures you already understand how happy she is with you. So she wags for those who are less sensitive to understanding her message, like Patk said.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

lol, streetcar. you are just being nice and trying to put a sweet spin on my teasing of tp. i actually am curious about what is going on and hope tp figures it out.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

I wonder, could there be nerve damage from her crop? Maybe those nerves are just now slowly reconnecting/waking up?


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

mischief, is that a known potential effect of docking?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Sophy is not a great tail wagger - a flicker, a tiny movement at the root, tail up, down, at half mast, but never a full wag. She carries her tail very high as most Papillons do, and I have often wondered if that affects the movement - and, of course, she had a slipped disc, so may have back pain with certain movements. She communicates with her ears and eyes instead, very successfully! As others have said, perhaps Timi knows that you are sufficiently attuned to her that she only needs to whisper, whereas with the strange dog she needed to signal with huge, easy to understand flags!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Lily wagged her tail for BF, Peeves and many other people before she wagged at me. I think she must have been at least 6, maybe 9, months old. It was sort of upsetting to me. I know how you feel.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Patk, it can cause chronic pain and neuromas. I honestly don't know much about it, but I know after I have had surgeries sometimes years later numb areas will start to have feeling again. Just a guess.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> I wonder, could there be nerve damage from her crop? Maybe those nerves are just now slowly reconnecting/waking up?



She has a long dock, and like I said, she has the most flexible tail that I have ever seen in a poodle - she seems to have extra control over it, not less. And she was wagging a mile a minute at that dog in the park! For some readon, she does not think that her family needs wagging! She doesn't wag at Teaka either!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I guess for now I will just have to assume that she only uses wagging to tell a stranger that she is friendly, and does not feel the need to tell her family that. It just doesn't mean happy for her like it does for other dogs.
I tried to get her to wag for her breakfast this morning, but all she did was quick full body spins. When that didn't get her her breakfast, she starting going through offering her list of tricks, but not a single wag.
I will update if I figure this out any better...


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Tail wagging? You gotta have a tail to do that with Hahaha! Until I started shaving Molly's butt and let her little tail (that is less than 2" long) grow a puff, I always thought it didn't wag because she wiggled her whole butt! Now that I can see it though, it DOES wag independently.......but always more for others than me! I guess I'm just old hat to her and not exciting enough to warrant the effort! LOL!

She does carry that little nub proudly though! Hahaha!!!!!


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

well i'm going to go with the idea that tail wagging for some dogs is not the medium of choice for communicating with certain humans. there. solved that one!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

patk said:


> well i'm going to go with the idea that tail wagging for some dogs is not the medium of choice for communicating with certain humans. there. solved that one!



Timi does do lots of "talking" with her eyes, that is for sure.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

aha! now we're narrowing it down to which end of the dog is best for getting the human to do what the dog wants. let's be frank here. what would a wagging tail tell you? can a wagging tail beg for treats? direct you to get the ball under the furniture? ask to be picked up?


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

BorderKelpie said:


> I have a dog that doesn't wag at me. Well, she never wagged when I could see it, but my daughter says that she wags her whole back half when she sees me.
> Usually, when I am messing with her, she's all sorts of serious. She also doesn't have much of a tail - some yahoo bobbed it off.  (She's an ACD, BTW.)


Your post brought back a special memory for me. :angel2: My Trixie was the only one of my Poodles who didn't wag her tail. When she was happy and excited, she would wag her whole little butt! She too didn't have much of a tail, but I have to be honest, I loved it so much when she moved that wiggly little butt of hers. She needed to compensate for the lack of a longer tail, and she compensated it very well, bless her little heart. :angel2: I sure do miss my little girl, and her little wiggly butt.

Kathy


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## ApricotsRock (Jan 10, 2014)

Ha! Rookie is a stingy wagger. I thought it was because he is lazy, his tail is always just laying on his back and it would be such an effort...

I agree he is more of an eye guy, i.e. look into my eyes and you will feel the need to go get cookies....lol!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Well guess what, last night we got back from dinner and noticed that Timi was wagging when she was greeting us - with all of the hysterics of two dogs, I never noticed it before!


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## Naira (Jan 9, 2015)

Naira didn't wag that much when she was younger. My mini was the most waggingest (I know that's not a word haha) dog that ever lived. Haha.

Naira wags now. She greets people she knows really lazily though, including me. Walk up, sniff, wag tail, and rubbing her head into your leg.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Glad she finally gave you a wag. Maurice didn't wag as vigorously as he does now when he was young...just a little, subtle wag, one or two at a time. Now it goes a mile a minute. Maybe Timi was just a little delayed like Maurice, only more extreme.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Glad she finally gave you a wag. Maurice didn't wag as vigorously as he does now when he was young...just a little, subtle wag, one or two at a time. Now it goes a mile a minute. Maybe Timi was just a little delayed like Maurice, only more extreme.



She might have been doing that wagging all along - she goes so nuts when we come home, it is hard to notice the wag. Still hoping to get the regular wagging when the tail is the only part of her moving though...


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Heh, heh...that could certainly be...that her whole body wiggles so much, you can't notice the tail. I always think it's so funny though, how many people say a docked tail isn't expressive and you can't read them etc, etc. That is just not true...because it is soooo expressive and readable (if you can see it, haha). I love little, short tails. Matisse's goes so fast when he wags, it looks like 2 tails. When he looks up at me all expectantly, about ready to get really silly and there goes his tail...wag, wag, wag so quickly. lol.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Heh, heh...that could certainly be...that her whole body wiggles so much, you can't notice the tail. I always think it's so funny though, how many people say a docked tail isn't expressive and you can't read them etc, etc. That is just not true...because it is soooo expressive and readable (if you can see it, haha). I love little, short tails. Matisse's goes so fast when he wags, it looks like 2 tails. When he looks up at me all expectantly, about ready to get really silly and there goes his tail...wag, wag, wag so quickly. lol.



Don't your boys have a long dock? I really think that Timi is only missing a small bit of tail 1-2 inches maybe.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Don't your boys have a long dock? I really think that Timi is only missing a small bit of tail 1-2 inches maybe.
> View attachment 276394



But if you are comparing it to a lab, I guess that you would call it short!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Fairly long. I don't know...just whatever they do for akc show dogs, I guess. I think about 1/3 of the tail is taken off. Not sure. I'd have to ask. But yeah, they're not that short. It seems enough to make them stand erect and be in balance with the individual dog. So maybe there are slight variations according to each puppy. I never really asked about it. You can kind of see with the light shining through Matisse's tail in my siggy picture.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Fairly long. I don't know...just whatever they do for akc show dogs, I guess. I think about 1/3 of the tail is taken off. Not sure. I'd have to ask. But yeah, they're not that short. It seems enough to make them stand erect and be in balance with the individual dog. So maybe there are slight variations according to each puppy. I never really asked about it. You can kind of see with the light shining through Matisse's tail in my siggy picture.



Yes, I think it is supposed to be about the same height as the head, so it probably will vary with the build. Timi has the longest neck that I ever did see on a poodle, hence the long dock I guess?


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Well guess what, last night we got back from dinner and noticed that Timi was wagging when she was greeting us - with all of the hysterics of two dogs, I never noticed it before!


Well good girl Timi!! And I think that's true, with the excitement of her mommy and daddy coming back home, she had a good reason to wag!!


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Heh, heh...that could certainly be...that her whole body wiggles so much, you can't notice the tail. I always think it's so funny though, how many people say a docked tail isn't expressive and you can't read them etc, etc. That is just not true...because it is soooo expressive and readable (if you can see it, haha). I love little, short tails. Matisse's goes so fast when he wags, it looks like 2 tails. When he looks up at me all expectantly, about ready to get really silly and there goes his tail...wag, wag, wag so quickly. lol.


HAHA, I just looked at Matisse's picture, and now I'm visualizing his tail in my mind, and yes, it's going soooooo fast that it does look like 2 tails!! Adorable!!

I too love the smaller tails. Not so small though that it's just a nubbin of a tail, but, to me, Matisse's tail is just about how I like Poodle tails.


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

MollyMuiMa said:


> Tail wagging? You gotta have a tail to do that with Hahaha! Until I started shaving Molly's butt and let her little tail (that is less than 2" long) grow a puff, I always thought it didn't wag because she wiggled her whole butt! Now that I can see it though, it DOES wag independently.......but always more for others than me! I guess I'm just old hat to her and not exciting enough to warrant the effort! LOL!
> 
> She does carry that little nub proudly though! Hahaha!!!!!


Awwww, I love Molly's little butt tail, LOL!! And the way you have her tail in the picture with a puff, I think that's the cutest thing! I do believe she loves her tail and holds it high ( as high as she can anyway), to show off her very impressive looking tail for all to see!!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

The first dog I had with a docked tail was my Dobe. I loved that tail. His wasn't super short either. And it use to make me mad when people said they weren't expressive...because he was such an expressive dog, full of life and joy. Sorry to bring another breed into this but Dobe people insert "Dober" before many of their body parts. And when he died at such a young age, I wrote a bunch of poems...some pretty corny but all from my heart. And one was about his tail. And you could apply it to Poodle tails too. I had a Lab too, so it made me appreciate how things didn't get swept off the coffee table like it did with the Lab. lol. (I wrote one about his "Dober toes" too.) 


That Dober Tail

A mile a minute it would go,
That Dober stub of a tail,
It didn’t sway in easy flow,
But things stayed on the table.

How expressive, that Dober tail,
Inside his mind I’d know,
Humor abounded without fail,
Back and forth, that Dober tail,
Wish he didn’t go.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

MollyMuiMa said:


> Tail wagging? You gotta have a tail to do that with Hahaha! Until I started shaving Molly's butt and let her little tail (that is less than 2" long) grow a puff, I always thought it didn't wag because she wiggled her whole butt! Now that I can see it though, it DOES wag independently.......but always more for others than me! I guess I'm just old hat to her and not exciting enough to warrant the effort! LOL!
> 
> She does carry that little nub proudly though! Hahaha!!!!!


I so love her sweet little Bunny Butt!

We need to get all the PF people together so I can get a picture of Molly and Timi together - I think they'd be soooo cute together.  Black/white, long tail/bunny butt, fancy hairclips.....


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

BorderKelpie said:


> I so love her sweet little Bunny Butt!
> 
> We need to get all the PF people together so I can get a picture of Molly and Timi together - I think they'd be soooo cute together.  Black/white, long tail/bunny butt, fancy hairclips.....


LOL, I think that's a great idea!!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

BorderKelpie said:


> I so love her sweet little Bunny Butt!
> 
> 
> 
> We need to get all the PF people together so I can get a picture of Molly and Timi together - I think they'd be soooo cute together.  Black/white, long tail/bunny butt, fancy hairclips.....



We would need Rick to take the pictures - my dinky old phone could not handle Timi and her cream/white cousin in the same frame!


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Bella wags and wags Cayenne is all eye expressions never wiggles her butt or wags her tail and she is 2 yrs. old now


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

glorybeecosta said:


> Bella wags and wags Cayenne is all eye expressions never wiggles her butt or wags her tail and she is 2 yrs. old now


Well you know what they always say, eyes are like windows to the soul. You can tell so much by looking into a Poodle's eyes.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

well tp by starting this thread you have made it possible for us to entertain some new distinctions between dogs that tail-talk and dogs that eye-talk. someday we will find out that there is a genetic component for that. my lowchen were mostly eye-talkers - as in, boy, do we know how to beg. the upside of that is that there were not generally barkers. hoping that silver girl waiting for me somewhere has those two characteristics, too!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

patk said:


> well tp by starting this thread you have made it possible for us to entertain some new distinctions between dogs that tail-talk and dogs that eye-talk. someday we will find out that there is a genetic component for that. my lowchen were mostly eye-talkers - as in, boy, do we know how to beg. the upside of that is that there were not generally barkers. hoping that silver girl waiting for me somewhere has those two characteristics, too!



Lol, where else would people actually find this conversation interesting!
FYI, you will have to choose your silver girl very carefully - while of course there are no absolutes when it comes to traits, I am of the opinion that silver toys tend to be yappers - they have very high pitched voices and are barky.
No flames please, that is just my opinion from my experiences. I did however know ONE who was quiet, so it is possible.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

:flame::flame::flame:


p.s. i have to admit i have been checking out one particular lowchen breeder (new) who also breeds cane corsos! yikes! but her parti girl is absolutely adorable. my silver and cream girl was not barky, nor my parti male, despite their very different personalities, yet lowchen are thought to be somewhat barky. it all depends on the dog, i think.


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## PoodlePaws (May 28, 2013)

Ash is a big wagger. Missy NEVER wags her tail. Ever. Gemma the TZU wags a lot too.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

PoodlePaws said:


> Ash is a big wagger. Missy NEVER wags her tail. Ever. Gemma the TZU wags a lot too.



How is Gemma doing with your other two? Did I miss an update on that?


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Oh my Cayenne does wag side to side in slow motion, my mistake. Bella goes round in circles


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

glorybeecosta said:


> Oh my Cayenne does wag side to side in slow motion, my mistake. Bella goes round in circles



I think a slow side to side wag usually means uncertainty. Circles I think means over the top happiness!


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## My babies (Aug 14, 2012)

My miu miu didn't wag her tail for the entire 1st year. Her tail is always high up in a slight curl. It has never been down. So I thought she just didn't use her tail at all. A year later she started wagging her tail whenever she's happy like when it's time to go for a walk or when I come home. I still think it's weird that she never wagged her tail during her first year. 

Gucci in the other hand uses his tail to show all kinds of emotions. It's wagging like crazy when he's happy. Down when he's upset like when I'm going to work. Down and tucked when he's scared like if he heard a loud noise outside. Vibrates when he's excited for a new toy.


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## My babies (Aug 14, 2012)

My miu miu didn't wag her tail for the entire 1st year. Her tail is always high up in a slight curl. It has never been down. So I thought she just didn't use her tail at all. A year later she started wagging her tail whenever she's happy like when it's time to go for a walk or when I come home. I still think it's weird that she never wagged her tail during her first year. 

Gucci in the other hand uses his tail to show all kinds of emotions. It's wagging like crazy when he's happy. Down when he's upset like when I'm going to work. Down and tucked when he's scared like if he heard a loud noise outside. Vibrates when he's excited for a new toy.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

My babies said:


> My miu miu didn't wag her tail for the entire 1st year. Her tail is always high up in a slight curl. It has never been down. So I thought she just didn't use her tail at all. A year later she started wagging her tail whenever she's happy like when it's time to go for a walk or when I come home. I still think it's weird that she never wagged her tail during her first year.
> 
> 
> 
> Gucci in the other hand uses his tail to show all kinds of emotions. It's wagging like crazy when he's happy. Down when he's upset like when I'm going to work. Down and tucked when he's scared like if he heard a loud noise outside. Vibrates when he's excited for a new toy.



It is interesting to hear about all the different levels of tail use - I never knew that there could be so many differences!


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