# Dangerous Walks



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Can you bring bear spray or even a long stick or cane when you go on walks ?


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## LaurieCody (Dec 23, 2021)

Dechi said:


> Can you bring bear spray or even a long stick or cane when you go on walks ?


I could, but when dogs are in packs of up to five or more a lot of the time I'm not even sure if I would feel safe with that.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

I assume you pay Town taxes. Look up your local animal control laws and complain at one of your town council meetings. If they pack up and roam around, people will be afraid to go out as well. Can't tolerate that. 
In the mean time, I agree with using bear spray to repel them.


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## LaurieCody (Dec 23, 2021)

94Magna_Tom said:


> I assume you pay Town taxes. Look up your local animal control laws and complain at one of your town council meetings. If they pack up and roam around, people will be afraid to go out as well. Can't tolerate that.
> In the mean time, I agree with using bear spray to repel them.


Nobody cares its a town of 300 people. We for a short time had a "pound" set up. They would catch dogs put in a crate for two days if nobody claimed them they were euthanized. It was just a shed with a couple wire crate from my understanding. The town just can't afford it. People complain all the time. We have no buisnesses no school nothing but houses. The closest emergency vet if we were attacked is an hour away. I'm a big time worrier and worry about all the little ways things can go wrong. I'm really trying to find any alternatives possible. I don't want to put her or myself in any uncessary danger if at all possible.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Wow! I’m sorry. That is indeed a tough situation. Any possibility you could drive out of town and walk elsewhere where the dogs aren’t roaming around?


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

When we had wild dog packs running around in my rural area, I carried a rifle. The noise of a shot set them running away. Luck we haven't had this problem for several years. If it happens again i think I would try the bear spray - beats lugging a rifle.


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## LaurieCody (Dec 23, 2021)

Spottytoes said:


> Wow! I’m sorry. That is indeed a tough situation. Any possibility you could drive out of town and walk elsewhere where the dogs aren’t roaming around?


I’m not sure. From what I’m told by friends it seems to me a region problem we don’t have any trails we can walk. As soon as I’m financially able I want to move to a more dog friendly part of the state. A work friend I had was from Colorado and was shocked by the fact that dogs are just allowed to roam. She was told by local police that the only way they’ll do anything was if the dog was going to bite someone. (She lives in a much bigger town.)


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Phoebe doesn’t have regular walks. Blasphemy! I know! But… she gets enough exercise. I wouldn’t sweat it. You will know if she isn’t getting enough exercise.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Walking on leash isn't much exercise for them anyway. Get a flirt pole, a Frisbee, and some dog tennis balls and give him some real exercise instead. You won't need to play nearly as long as a walk would take either. A large Jolly Ball keeps Elroy busy for a while all by himself!


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## LaurieCody (Dec 23, 2021)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Walking on leash isn't much exercise for them anyway. Get a flirt pole, a Frisbee, and some dog tennis balls and give him some real exercise instead. You won't need to play nearly as long as a walk would take either. A large Jolly Ball keeps Elroy busy for a while all by himself!


Laurie loves her flirt pole!


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## Pavie (May 4, 2021)

Sounds like a tricky situation!

Maybe treadmill exercise inside the house? It's pretty easy to teach and many dogs learn to like it. I think walking has a type of mental stimulation that flirt poles, frisbees, tennis balls don't have, as it requires longer durations of concentration rather than short bursts of energy, so I value walks. My dog and I do lots of walking as well as ball playing, so he gets both types of stimulation.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Do you have friends/acquaintances with friendly, compatible dogs? If so you could arrange play dates in each other's yards, share rent for an enclosed space (riding school, for example), and share transport costs for longer trips out to more dog friendly areas - all good socialising and exercising for both dogs and humans. Trips to dog friendly stores work the brain; agility and other training classes work brain and body if there is one within reach. If you don't already know anyone I would put out a call on social media, building a group of local responsible dog owners - there must be many others facing the same problem.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

That's a tough situation. I think you are sensible avoiding these walks if the loose dogs are territorial and aggressive. 

Are there stores with large parking lots you could drive to? My guys are perfectly happy to go on sniffy walks around the edge of the parking lot at Agway and Dollar General. They have a different appreciation of dumpsters and compost pallets than I do.

Mental exercise is as important as physical. You can go a long way towards meeting her needs by playing training games with her. Look up the list of tricks used for the AKC trick training tests. During the worst of the Covid quarantine I used to make Galen's fetch games more challenging for him by tossing his ball into the shrubbery. He would have to work extra hard to find the ball and then figure out how to get it out


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

You're wise not to walk in chancy situations. Poodles are too quick to pick up on human adrenaline.

Perhaps once a week or so you could find an empty business parking lot (Sundays can be good for that) or park on the outside of a Walmart lot or a church lot on a weekday. Mental stimulation is important and for dogs, much of that comes from scents.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

Maybe a long term solution is to apply for a conceal carry permit, sign up for a pistol safety class, and schedule range time.

It would be a $1000-$1500 investment in your safety... 

Just an idea.


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## Heartland2022 (7 mo ago)

I'll second that it beats living in fear of being attacked. That or possibly killed by a human or animal. It's like a fire extinguisher sure you don't need one now. You'll wish you had one when a fire breaks out though. It could save your life after all. It sure wouldn't hurt to be prepared to save yourself or dog just my opinion. It doesn't sound like the people responsible for maintaining the town safety ect have left you with many options.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I literally risked my life, my previous dog’s life and DH had a near death experience with two pit bulls, while walking in the neighborhood. Not worth it. One morning, I saw a line of dogs at the end of a street we were entering. Fortunately, there was a jogger who also saw the danger and we linked arms and walked to safety back to where we started. I still get chills thinking about that and what could have happened. Buck stays in our yard, which is big, but as has been mentioned a dog can get plenty of exercise with obedience training, flirt poles, soccer balls, etc. I contacted my city commissioner about the pack and wonder of wonders Animal Control got more funding. Bonus, I got a call of thanks from the head of AC, because I don’t think anyone ever advocated for them. Even though you live in a small community, that doesn’t mean they can ignore community safety issues and concerns.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

This makes me so sad. I’m sorry, @LaurieCody.  The people of your community deserve better.

If you can’t drive somewhere safe and enriching (e.g. Peggy loves sniffing around the outside perimeter of big box stores) I would focus on creating enrichment opportunities in your own yard:

There are lots of options for homemade agility equipment and obstacle courses. 
Google “create a sniffari” and set one up in your yard.
You can feed kibble scattered in the grass. 
Even a small plastic swimming pool can provide some fun play and training opportunities.

Just be sure to keep any jumping or repetitive activities age-appropriate to protect growing joints. And *don’t* use any chemical fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides, etc. You need to keep Laurie’s precious play space a safe one.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I think firearms are probably a useful protection tool in grizzly bear country, but they wouldn't be my first choice in my own neighborhood. If nothing else, the noise of the gunshot is likely to frighten your own dog unless you have trained her to tolerate the sound of gunfire. The dog could bolt in panic and get hit by a car. She may also form a permanent fear of going on walks, believing there will be another episode of loud noises and upset humans.

Another trouble with firearms is that you have to be capable of hitting what you are aiming at. That isn't always possible when you are shaking with adrenaline, your target is running, and/or your own dog is pulling your arm. The consequences of not hitting your target (or having the bullet travel thru the target) can be very very bad. One of my coworkers once shot and killed a neighbor who was peacefully napping in his own home on his own couch; my coworker carelessly loosed a bullet which traveled through plaster and couch before striking the neighbor. 

Even if you do manage to hit your target, you then have to live with the consequences. Guilt over injuring or killing the dog, possible retaliation from the owners or friends of owners (slashed tires are expensive, arson is even more so), possible legal repercussions.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

Dog walks should bring joy to both dog and human. Being on guard isn't going to cut it.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I’m so saddened reading this. I definitely wouldn’t walk my dogs in this environment.

You probably have a large yard that is fenced or could be fenced. as mentioned above I would focus on games and activities in safe environments such as your home.

Is it safe to take your dog on errands to places where dogs are allowed such as Lowes or Tractor Supply so your dog gets some socialization and experience outside your property?


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## LaurieCody (Dec 23, 2021)

Skylar said:


> I’m so saddened reading this. I definitely wouldn’t walk my dogs in this environment.
> 
> You probably have a large yard that is fenced or could be fenced. as mentioned above I would focus on games and activities in safe environments such as your home.
> 
> Is it safe to take your dog on errands to places where dogs are allowed such as Lowes or Tractor Supply so your dog gets some socialization and experience outside your property?


I do try to take her places with me when I can, but she doesn't usually enjoy it. She gets really bad car sick and I'm still trying diffrent things to help it. It usually just stresses her out more than anything.


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## JasMom (7 mo ago)

I'll second carrying pepper spray. A friend of mine always carries pepper spray and will douse any dog that charges her own leashed dogs before it can get close. A gun would be my last resort for the reasons mentioned earlier (mainly retaliation from owners). 

Still, I think other forms of exercise are best in your current situation. Just not worth the risk.


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

You shouldn't be a prisoner to your property. Bear spray would be effective, even against multiple dogs. If you could do so legally, a mid-caliber pistol loaded with snake shot would be my second choice. I'm dealing with a similar issue, although not quite as menacing,.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

LaurieCody said:


> I could, but when dogs are in packs of up to five or more a lot of the time I'm not even sure if I would feel safe with that.


Oh gosh, no, I wouldn’t either !


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Sadly you have to be careful with pepper or bear spray because if the wind is blowing the wrong direction it can blow the spray onto your and your dog. If you are walking into wind, the spray is useless for protection.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Just a possible gentle caution. Members with prior military and / or protection experience may be validly eager to advocate for fighting back in one regard or another. Those of us without any specialty training or exposure may be unlikely to be able to react as these skilled members would in a threat environment.

I know from personal experience I'm more likely to freeze or to fail to judge wind direction, as Skylar mentions.

For those of us who are untried, rank beginners, or even those with some, yet limited, range practice, avoidance of the dangerous situation may prove a safer route.


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## EJStevenP (Oct 27, 2021)

I live in a "nice" neighborhood in a "big" city. On our walks we've been attacked by five different dogs that are either roaming or have gotten away from their owners. It got to the point where I was so tense my dogs knew it too and none of us enjoyed it. Fortunately I have a large backyard. I think the dogs get more exercise running there than they did on a walk. If I were you I'd invest in a bunch of tennis balls or other stuff they can chase.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

EJStevenP said:


> I live in a "nice" neighborhood in a "big" city. On our walks we've been attacked by five different dogs that are either roaming or have gotten away from their owners. It got to the point where I was so tense my dogs knew it too and none of us enjoyed it. Fortunately I have a large backyard. I think the dogs get more exercise running there than they did on a walk. If I were you I'd invest in a bunch of tennis balls or other stuff they can chase.


We also live in a lovely neighborhood, albeit in a small town, and Peggy has been attacked three times, _and_ we’ve had to help a neighbour who was cornered on her own property by two growling dogs.

Peggy rolled with the first two beautifully, but the third attack fundamentally changed her.


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## EJStevenP (Oct 27, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Peggy rolled with the first two beautifully, but the third attack fundamentally changed her.


I get it! One of our attacks was by a wandering German Shepherd. I know where he lives and think he just snuck out of his yard. He wasn't vicious and I honestly think he was trying to play BUT it was scary. I was walking Thomas and Ethel. Ethel was only 7 or 8 months old. The dog rushed us and put his mouth around Thomas like a football. Thomas, being his tactful self , went full on growling and snarling. Ethel made this heart wrenching, terrified bark whine shriek. It was awful to hear. I screamed bloody murder which shut everyone up and made the German Shepherd run away. Thomas was fine. I was really worried that Ethel would be scarred from it but she's okay. I'm the one that gets all paranoid and afraid of what might be around the corner.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

The Labradoodles two houses down were loose and jumped us. I tried throwing salmon skins on the road but no takers. 

Normie hates them and I have no respect for their owners. They're untrained and lunge at everyone.


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## PowersPup (Aug 28, 2020)

I'm sad to read this - how awful to feel unsafe in your own town. My city has gotten much more dangerous in the past two years, but the danger is to humans and property, not to dogs. We live in a well-to-do neighborhood where most people keep their dogs on leashes. We don't go to dog parks in the city, but do drive out to the suburbs where the people seem more responsible and the dogs are responsive. One of our vacation properties is in wolf habitat, and they can be quite a threat to dogs. The local conservation officer suggested carrying an air horn to scare them away - waiting till they get close enough to use bear spray means they're too close. A neighbor up there carries a 22 pistol loaded with blanks, and keeps real ammo on hand just in case. But he's trained on firearm use and safety. I feel better with my little air horn.


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## Heartland2022 (7 mo ago)

People leaving their dogs illegally at large in populated areas just foolish. I don't think some of these owners realize the real risks they are taking. That or just plain dont care about much including the dog. Being a responsible law abiding weapon carrying owner I will try my best to break it all down. Not to mention the dog owners are leaving the poor dogs with no choice they don't know any better. It's definitely not their fault it's their owners. I know I have personally witnessed police go to a house with dogs illegally at large showing signs of aggression. The fact was that's exactly why they were called there to the area. The police immediately started yelling to the owners get these dogs under control on their arrival. With the owners yelling back they don't bite finally at last with a leash or two in hand.... The owner started scampering towards the dogs to leash them a rare sight with hopes of only receiving a leash law ticket. The dogs ran toward the officers showing teeth lunging growling before the owner could contain them. The officers didn't wait and made the call last minute of not going to allow themselves to be hurt or killed. These were some very large dogs very powerful I imagine the showing of teeth and growling advancing lunging was enough for that split-second decision to use lethal force. Not to mention their body cameras capturing the whole thing. When the dogs hit the black top road both were gone resting at the officers feet then the owner became irate. The officer didn't go for his pepper spray or his billy club with the dogs attacking which are both classified a dangerous weapon by our state laws definition not a lethal one. That can make a big difference in a court of law in regards to justifiable appropriate use of force. The dogs wouldn't have understood if he said stop or I'm going to spray or taser you like a person might understand. In fact it could have escalated the situation like poking a vicious animal or bear with a big stick. He probably had good reasons not to use either option in both situations that unfolded it all happened very fast. That would have been excessive use of a dangerous weapon not justified had he imho. Not to mention very dangerous for him also as it's likely not to work. Opening him up and his department to lawsuits all sorts from the dogs owners. Excessive or inappropriate use of force allegations even enticing the attack ect. He didn't shoot the dog in the leg either having that much time to aim would negate any case in our courts to be made for the use of justifiable lethal force. If he had time to do all that he had no case for use of a lethal force weapon at all right? After all leg or center mass a lethal force weapon was what he used. Again it's not like you can deter a dog verbally with the threat of a dangerous weapon like a taser or chem spray. With the advancing irate owner advancing toward them now shouting verbal death threats.. The officer with his firearm still drawn demanded the owner freeze stop put hands up where they can see them or they would shoot. I sure wouldn't expect him to resort back to a spray or a billy club in those few moments. After all the irate owner had already made verbal death threats due to what happened to their dogs. Now if it holds true for an armed law abiding officer to be justified in that situation? Why would anyone think it doesn't hold true for an armed law abiding citizen to be found justified in such a dog attack requiring justified use of equal lethal force? As far as civil or criminal immunity in a defense case. Some states do grant that for harm caused to an attacker or accidental harm to a bystander in a found justifiable self-defense case. This can all very by laws from state to state. It's also your responsibility as an armed law abiding citizen to know all of this. The consequences can be drastic for not staying up-to-date. This doesn't just apply to legally carried firearms it applies to all legally carried types of weapons. That includes chemical sprays certain knives clubs tasers ect. It's also your responsibility to know if a permit is required to carry any one of these weapons concealed. If you're going to carry a weapon any type it pays to have insurance. USCCA offers a plan for every budget. Now I'm no lawyer this shouldn't be taken as legal advice. For my own legal protection I feel the need to state that. If you found yourself in a situation where you had to defend your life or aonthers. By means of any type of weapon I would suggest you seek proper legal counsel. What I've stated to be known facts for me in my state could be completely different for you in your state. Deescalation is always the first option but sometimes your only left with your last resort. I don't worry about retaliation in the form of property damage. First question they will ask is why would somebody do this to you got any enemies? If they have a record of a prior dog incident that's a pretty clear motive for property damage or arson out of the blue. Which would demand a pretty solid alibi from the accused as to whereabouts during such time. Not to mention everybody has a miniature camera in their pocket a lot of people with ring security cameras all the way around their home. Some folks even get creative with game cameras stuck in a tree. Business have security cams seems they are everywhere. If the owners are as foolish as their dogs were let by them to be. Foolish enough to outright attack a person not just their property God help em. A lot of armed folks out there that don't do victim. These are some things I keep in mind as a dog owner and legally armed citizen. In a populated area mine stay on a leash for all them reasons I can't control others only me and my dog.


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

I think a bigger risk for the dog owners is that the dogs will bite and injure or kill a person or dog walking by and leave their owners open to lawsuits and huge expenses. I also don't think most of us want to have to arm ourselves either with firearms or with bear spray or whatever else in order to go for a walk with our dogs.

I am very lucky that I have multiple safe areas to walk with my dog, and don't have to worry about those things. If I had to contemplate shooting or macing other peoples' dogs in order to walk with mine I don't know what I would choose to do, but it would take a lot of soul searching.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

One cannot compare a police officer's well trained skills and honed reactions to most of us pet owners. Yes; the officer was capable of acting in the moment. But his abilities far exceed those of everyday citzens. I could never have such skill and reaction time. Even with practice time at a range. No comparison.

And that, for most of us, imho, makes carrying a handgun on a dog walk impractical. Or dangerous, more likely. Trying to manage one's jumping or bolting dog while fishing out a firearm, then aiming accurately - all at the same time? Nope. I surely could not. Some who have served in the armed forces or as police officers, then it's more practical. While I respect the viewpoint, it takes the conversion astray from PF a bit.


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## Heartland2022 (7 mo ago)

Streetcar said:


> One cannot compare a police officer's well trained skills and honed reactions to most of us pet owners. Yes; the officer was capable of acting in the moment. But his abilities far exceed those of everyday citzens. I could never have such skill and reaction time. Even with practice time at a range. No comparison.
> 
> And that, for most of us, imho, makes carrying a handgun on a dog walk impractical. Or dangerous, more likely. Trying to manage one's jumping or bolting dog while fishing out a firearm, then aiming accurately - all at the same time? Nope. I surely could not. Some who have served in the armed forces or as police officers, then it's more practical. While I respect the viewpoint, it takes the conversion astray from PF a bit.


Some say the gun is and was a weapon of war. I have no doubt that is true. Well a large breed dog is and was a weapon of war. That too I do not doubt in the least. With its trained to channel aggression and tenacity extremely hard to hide from just as deadly. Neither of them have to be though they both can be a great agents of peace. Great providers protectors and peacemakers both requiring a great amount of traning and respect. Then again that all comes back to their handler for both. With the appropriate firearm and load you'd be surprised what you can hit a.410 in a revolver format nearly eliminates all of the concerns raised. Like overpenetration too much range extreme risk of ricochet high chance of injury to a bystander. Even traveling through walls into other areas. There is a reason the .410 shotgun in a revolver format is a number one choice for in home protection. You don't want shot over penetrating walls going into bedrooms down a dark hallway. This is assuming it's loaded with pellet or bb shot appropriate to the specific task. Aim with a shotgun isn't that important at close range general direction works. For training comparison I think you'd be shocked how similar it is to the armed citizens. Minus the psychological traning part of learning to play 21 questions. I agree though and also respect others viewpoints. This is starting to steer off the topic of poodles. I would venture to say on the borderline politics.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Having also been thru an attack on my two boys by two other dogs, I can testify that trying to target more than one incoming dog by yourself isn't particularly doable.

We have threads that go into detail on what to do and how to do it but the fact is, even while keeping a clear head in the split seconds these happen in, without practice to build mind and muscle memory, weapons of any kind are an impediment.

Unless you're walking around with WOC already in hand there isn't enough time to implement.

That said, I carry gel spray clipped to my pocket, hoping that I can pull it out and spray the target, not have it back spray on me and my boys, and hope it doesn't just PO the incoming attacker/s.

That also said, a quick check on the law in Arkansas finds that stun guns are a legal carry if you're over 18y and do not require a license. (Double and triple check that!)

Even better because you'd get more reach would be a stun baton. Many come with flashlight built in. These seem to have a wrist strap carry (awkward at best) or a holster arrangement to clip to a belt or belt loop.

I don't know if the owners of the attacking dogs could sue you for any damages. 

After our attack I called my local police station (KS) and explained what happened. I stated that I know that dogs are considered "property" so I can't use the same level of force to protect them, but what can I do to protect myself? Before I got those last words out of my mouth she replied "ANYTHING". I asked for clarification. She said "Mace, knife, firearm, anything". I said okey dokey, thanks and hung up.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

I was raised with firearms managed safely in the home and my family hunted. And - from a young age learned to shoot and was expected to be an accurate shot.

That said; I personally never took to hunting (in some respects it's a very honest way to obtain meat to eat - imho), and I'm many, many years away from any past tin can proficiency. I'm extremely well aware a firearm would offer no support to me in meeting up with a pack of hostile loose dogs whilst walking my Tpoo. It's just not truly in the realm of PF options aside from a microscopic number of members 🙂.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

So the consensus is that human and dog safety come first. And that there are effective ways to provide exercise in backyards and homes if need be. 

It's up to each of us to decide how to handle all that. 

Personally, on a rainy day, I drag out the flirt pole and then we play fetch in the hall.


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## Sroodle8 (Dec 23, 2021)

Just a note on pepper spray: you can buy wipes to remove it more quickly. Good idea in case the wind blows it in the wrong direction.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

If you opt for pepper or bear spray, practice using it as you have split seconds before an attack. My late Scottie was attacked by a Doberman and the wind was against me. Ended up calling poison control, because every tiny cut on my hands burned like fire. Pepto Bismal for the hands, my dog was luckier, thank God. I walked for years with a heavy baton. Not fun, to feel so insecure and unsafe in my neighborhood. 
…


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

Mfmst said:


> If you opt for pepper or bear spray, practice using it as you have split seconds before an attack. My late Scottie was attacked by a Doberman and the wind was against me. Ended up calling poison control, because every tiny cut on my hands burned like fire. Pepto Bismal for the hands, my dog was luckier, thank God. I walked for years with a heavy baton. Not fun, to feel so insecure and unsafe in my neighborhood.
> …


I'm currently shopping for a sturdy wooden hiking stick just in case we have a bad encounter with one of the local farm dogs. On one of our walking routs, Happy and I pass a beautiful Doberman that's chained up on his property. He must be 100lbs let's us know he's not to be messed with. Just this morning, I asked Happy "what do you think he'd do if he got off that chain. " Hopefully nothing.


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## Maggied (Sep 6, 2018)

Dechi said:


> Can you bring bear spray or even a long stick or cane when you go on walks ?


Lightweight gun with blanks might do the trick. But packs of dogs are extremely dangerous, so sorry. This may sound crazy, but a friend walked her dog on a human treadmill, and the dog liked it. I find myself that when panicked a gun or spray would be hard to grasp and use, and I might end up doing it to us.


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