# Puppy kibble with "only 2 ingrediants"???



## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

So my Mochi is 12 weeks old and for the first couple weeks we had her home she was getting bad diarrhea. She was positive for Giardia so she started treatment, but after the first round she was still having bad diarrhea and even some little bit of blood in a couple samples.

Her breeder sent her home with Blue Seal Performance kibble. She seemed to like it fine and free fed on it. Then the vet wanted me to give her some squash to see if it would help and mentioned I should look for a food that has few ingredients "like just two, maybe chicken and rice" but said not to change anything just yet. I started giving her canned pumpkin with her Blue Seal kibble but it did nothing, so at the next visit I told the vet this, and she said "yeah, that's not going to do anything". Ooookaay...

The vet then repeated the "she should be on a kibble with just two ingredients" but then sent us home with two cans of Purina GI canned food which apparently is by prescription only. The ingredients on this looked like crap (lots of grains/meals and by-product). But her poops did firm up on this and looked much better, even if they still stank.

Then we ran out of the canned stuff before I could get the vet on the phone again and I had to switch her back to her Blue Seal kibble (I did it gradually but within two days since we were limited with resources and I hadn't spoken with the vet yet). 

Now she's been on the Blue Seal kibble only again for 24hrs and her poops are starting to get yellow and soft again. The vet finally called me last night and I brought up the food issue and she recommend a kibble with "two ingredients" again. So this time I asked for a recommendation that I could get at the store. She said Royal Canin is good and had a poodle puppy kibble that would be good for her. I looked up the ingredients online and it seems like the same crap as everything else that is supposed to not be good for her (the Blue Seal ingredients were very similar I think).

What would you give your puppy in this case? The vet wants her diarrhea under control before we continue with shots and she is behind schedule already.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think that after all these trials and tribulations, I would take full control of what my pup eats. The balanced food you are feeding is not being properly digested, so as long as you are careful and do your research, a reasonably balanced home made diet can only be better for her. I would start with chicken thighs and short grain white rice - cook both in plenty of water so that the rice is rather sloppy, remove all bones and discard, and feed the rice and liquid with some of the chicken. Add bone meal according to these guidelines: DogAware.com Articles: Growing Bodies (Dog World Magazine) After a few days I would gradually increase the amount of meat to rice, and try ground beef with rice. Then scrambled eggs, sardines canned in water, lamb, cooked vegetables - introducing each new food one at a time and stopping immediately if anything seemed to upset her tum - and eventually liver and other richer meats.

Alternatively don't worry too much about ingredients, but focus on what works for her. In the UK Chappie, a brand that definitely would not win any prizes for high quality ingredients, is renowned for resolving intractable cases of diarrhoea. It might be as simple as feeding canned food rather than kibble - it could be the processed oils sprayed onto kibble that she cannot tolerate. Or processed chicken meal, which crops up in many foods, even when not listed in the ingredients - https://thesciencedog.wordpress.com/2015/01/21/whats-in-your-food-2/


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## DizzyIzzy (Mar 23, 2014)

I read the ingredients for Blue Seal, lots of corn and gluten sources. Either of those could cause problems. Home cooking is best, but if you need kibble-try a gluten free. I have seen many dogs who avoided the prescription food/medication routine by just switching to a grain and gluten free food.


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## PoodlePaws (May 28, 2013)

I would do a grain free food. Should firm the poops


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

*Decision made for me :-/*

Thank you all so much for your advice!

We had a little incident after I posted the original question. Her first AM feeding was her 4th meal of only the BS kibble and I noticed she only had a few bites before stopping and laying down in her playpen. Not normal behavior for her (usually she eats steadily until bowl is empty then wants to play/go out/play and almost never lays in her pen of her own free will even though bowls are in there).

Sure enough maybe 30min later, my husband hears her starting to puke. She brings up a very little bit of tummy contents, he thinks a few small pieces of chicken I had given her as treats for going into her crate last night. She lays down again. Maybe an hour later, I'm concerned as she hasn't touched any more food, and then more gagging. She three times brings up a little stomach bile with nothing in it so I panic and grab a can of Nature's Variety Instinct (chicken formula) that I had laying around from a previous shopping trip (plan was to use it for freezing in kong but had not gotten to that yet) and put a spoonful into her dry BS kibble in the bowl to see if she'll eat something. 

That did the trick! She ate it all and finished all but a few pieces of the kibble. I watched her carefully but she acted more normal after that. She has yet to have a BM but she went on a short walk without a problem and after we came back she had her midday meal of the BS kibble with another spoonful of the Nature's Variety canned and ate every last bit - her bowl looks like I just washed it!

Since our walk earlier to the local pet store showed me they don't carry Nature's Variety, and I don't really want to switch her to something entirely new now at this point, I am going to head up to the PetSmart and get some of their Puppy kibble which has no corn, wheat or soy. I think that may be better for her than the Blue Seal stuff as it has a bit lower protein content, and I'll probably get a few more cans of the wet food to keep her interested. If she does well on the Nature's Variety I guess I'll start ordering online so as not to make the trek to PetSmart (seriously thinking of taking the subway one stop just to cut down on the walk LOL!)


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## Beaches (Jan 25, 2014)

Keep us posted please Bonnie. Want to see what happens with your little girl....


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I agree with other posters....switching back and forth causes tummy upset on the pups. Also, I don't agree with the brands they recommend (Purina???). Do your homework, find something that works and I guess I am confused why a vet would recommend 2 ingredients for a puppy. A puppy needs lots of nourishment. Check out Dog Food Advisor or Whole Dog Journal for their food reviews and find something nutritious that your pup will eat that fits in your budget -- I think you can probably make a better decision that the vet at this juncture.

Did a quick search of the kibble -- sorry, corn, grains, gluten meal??? 

http://blueseal.com/files/feeding-and-mgmt/dog-cat/LifeStages_Puppy.pdf


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

Okay, so went out at 3pm and just got back now (5pm). Stopped at two more mom & pop pet food stores in the area and they did not carry the Nature's Variety Puppy food so did go to Petsmart, but they only had the Instinct Raw Boost Puppy kibble. I wanted the Prairie Puppy kibble. Sigh. No other choice so I got the Instinct Raw Boost. The only reason I was thinking Prairie would be better is it has a slightly lower Protein % and I noticed her poop got much better on the Purina GI canned stuff which had a really low Protein %.

When we got home it was a little past when she normally gets her 3rd meal (I've been feeding 4x/day per the vet). I opened the bag and gave her two pieces of the kibble and a piece of freeze dried stuff. She attacked it and started spinning around and begging for more. So at least she seems to like it. I mixed a bit in with her Blue Seal crap and she finished the whole bowl.

Beaches - will do!
I will update on here over the next few days to report how she does.

liljaker - exactly! I think the vet's point was more that because Mochi was having diarrhea she wanted to find something that would not put so much stress on her insides to digest and fewer ingredients would help with this. But that's why I posted on here to find something better and at least the Nature's Variety seems to have much better stuff and she likes it. Let's hope it firms up her poops too.

Thanks everyone!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I am surprised no one has told you about pumpkin yet! Plain pumpkin NOT pie filling will help firm up poops! Just add a teaspoon or two to her food and that should do it! The natural way! Also, ordering online at either Chewys or Petflow will get you just about any food you decide on and they list the ingredients! I'm real picky about what my girl eats and I rotate quite often ...my latest is Zignature Zssential, grain free, gluten free, all life stages kibble!
And I always check DogFoodAdvisor for ratings!!!!

P.S. Molly liked Instinct too, but like I said, I rotate!
Why? Watch Dr Karen Becker's youtube video called 'Control Your Pet's Food Allergies' Made a lot of sense to me and Dr Becker is a very well known authority on the subject!!!


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## Mahlon (Jun 8, 2014)

As others stated, when making a kibble/diet change, give it time, it can sometimes take 2-5 days for poops to again become regular and consistent. I'm not anti grain when it comes to dogs, but I also don't believe in cheap crap filler (think corn, and gluten/wheat). If your dog has an allergy to grain/gluten then of course it shouldn't be included, or even excess itchiness. But if you do allow grains in the diet, I highly recommend going with a varied more natural form such as pea meal, pearl barley, etc. Also another big recommendation to help understand whats causing you issues, is try to keep the animal protein from being a variety at one time, I like to stick to a food that has the protein mainly from one source such as Chicken, Beef, Lamb, etc. and not a mix. The one caveat to that is Fish protein/meal as its incredibly rare for dogs to have protein allergies to fish.

Hope that helps!

-Dan & Quinn


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

*First Update*

So Wednesday, since it was the day I had to go out to buy the new food, her 1st & 2nd meals had a spoonful of the NV canned food in her BS kibble, but 3rd and 4th meals of the day had 1/4 NV kibble mixed into the BS. 

Yesterday (Thursday) was day 1 of having the Nature's Variety Instinct Raw Boost for Puppies kibble mixed into every meal with her Blue Seal Kibble. She got probably 1/8 cup total of food at each of 4 meals with 1/2 being NV kibble, and with the 4th meal I put a heaping spoonful of the Instinct wet food also.

Her poops during the day and overnight seemed still a little yellow and on the soft side but they are still individual pieces of poop, not turning into soft-serve yet. 

One good thing that may or may not be related: the previous two nights, when she had been back on just the Blue Seal kibble all day, she was not settling in her crate at night anymore, and was waking way more frequently and crying during the night. While on the vet prescribed wet food she had been settling quickly and sleeping 6 hours in the night before I would take her out, so this was a big change and frustrating since I was taking her out every hour suddenly and even had to bring her down to the living room and sleep on the couch with her to quiet her.

But last night, not only did she settle immediately, but she slept 6.5 hours before I heard her stir this morning and took her out. Of course, there were other factors at play which could be the cause, but I'll take it!


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

*Update 2*

So its been over a week on the Nature's Variety Instinct Puppy kibble and Instinct canned food. I ended up moving her over to mostly canned so I could see if that would make a difference.

Overall, I think it has. Her poops are more consistently good shape and color, although there is at least once a day the odd one. But best of all, no super soft poops and no poopy puppy butt to wipe anymore. And today she was able to get her 2nd round of puppy shots. I asked them to hold off on the Rabies because of all this and not wanting to overwhelm her system, so we'll do that just over a week from now.

I hope in the future, maybe after she's off puppy kibble, she'll be good on just the adult kibble for more meals. It is a bit of an adjustment going from a life of kibble-only dogs to now having to have canned for every meal. But we're all good for now I think.


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

*Update 3*

Just in case anyone was curious how things are going I thought I'd update.

She has been having good BMs for weeks now. I am hoping to move her off the canned since it's not very convenient to find, is expensive, and creates much more garbage than I like to have in the house. I've started putting the canned only for breakfast, and leaving out her bowl with the puppy kibble for the rest of the day/evening. She free-feeds well on this and her poops, although they turned lighter in color, have actually gotten firmer and smaller.

I was worried she wouldn't eat the kibble since she's used to getting the yummy canned food with three meals a day until yesterday, and her puppy kibble was only mixed in for overnight in her crate and if any was leftover would be there for breakfast too, but she did fine so I guess hunger wins out.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I'm so glad she is doing well! Food quality does matter! You can always include just a tablespoon or so of canned food in her kibble instead of just feeding all canned and that will help to cut the cost! Yeah, hunger does win out!!!LOL!


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