# Loose Stools, but not Watery



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I’ve been through this with all my dogs and I’d suggest doing exactly what you’re doing: Bring in a stool sample and scale the food variety way back. And not just for a few days. I would give it a few weeks before reintroducing a single item at a time.

Write down your start date and the foods you’ll be feeding. If anything else sneaks in during that timeframe, jot it down, too.

At one point Peggy had soft stools from a single treat she was getting at her play dates. Not just a single _kind_ of treat. A single treat! It doesn’t take much.

I would also measure just how much water you’re adding to Elroy’s kibble and maybe scale that back, too. Give him plenty to drink in a separate bowl, of course, for when he’s thirsty, but you might be giving him more than you realize, forcing him to drink in order to get nutrients.

And my general feeling on super tasty toppers is kinda counterintuitive: If your dog needs ‘em, don’t use ‘em. They can push them to eat more than they would otherwise. Or make a rancid food more palatable. Peggy gets her “topper” on a separate plate.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

It does seem like there was an issue with that lot of food if the new bag is like the others were. I’ve never soaked food for more than a few weeks, and not at all with either of my poodles. Both came eating puppy food as is. When I have puppy raised, it seems most prefer the un-soaked kibble over time and will refuse the softened stuff. I’m kind of surprised he will still eat it.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

I do measure the water added. It's 1½ cups per meal, so it 4½ cups/day. Beyond that, he only drinks a little more from his water bowl. Maybe ¼-1 cup/day. Mostly after exercising. I thought it would be removed from the colon if all is working fine. Can excess water alone lead to soft stool?
I dropped off the stool sample a little while ago, and made an appointment for Monday just to have her give him a look over.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

My breeder says she always wets their kibble. Never stops. That's a reason why I kept wetting it. I'm going to try dry for now.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

I don’t really see anything wrong with that unless someone is just leaving soaked kibble to ferment, which you’re obviously not. I was just commenting that my dogs and pups I have fostered seem to prefer crunchy kibble to soaked. 😊


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Definitely always fresh.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I would say that’s too much water to be consuming all at once, with every meal, but that’s speaking from my personal human experience. Hard to say how it translates to dogs. And online advice on this topic is mixed. 

When I’ve moistened my dogs’ food, it’s just a splash.


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## WinnieThePoodle (Sep 1, 2020)

Winnie's poops are normally like this. Initially firm and the rest a bit of a sloppy formation.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

When the ragweed got bad here, Normie had looser stools for about a week. They went back to normal, so I'm guessing that he had to adjust to the pollen.

My f-i-l was an MD who told me that humans breathe in pollen and it affects more than just their noses. It can cause loose stools.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Today I started hard love with Elroy to figure out this loose stool thing. No treats. No yummy toppers. Today he only ate about 2 cups (233g) dry PPP-Puppy (chicken) and 12g Stella & Chewy's kibble (beef & chicken). Significantly less than his normal intake. His normal daily intake is 390g (about 3½ cups dry) wet PPP-Puppy, plus 3 TBSP canned food (90g), 12g Dr Marty's freeze dried food, and training treats (probably 100-150 kcal's worth of various healthy treats). His water intake is way down too. Only drank about 2 cups today. He's still acting 100% normal. We'll see how he does tomorrow. Maybe he'll eat and drink more. Probably won't need to poop too early either.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

A couple of thoughts based on our recent experience with food after the dental work, and some months back, when PPP started changing the look of the bags, some lots had different ingredients.

First, the food after dental work. We've always added water, sometimes other liquids, to the dry kibble, along with bits from our dinner protein and veggies.

Before the dental work, it was splashed on and mixed then served immediately. After the dental, we went to wet food for about 5 days, still adding some water to gravy it up. At about day 5, both boys started with peanut butter color and consistency stools. I switched them back to their kibble asap but soaked for about 5-6 minutes, rather than splashed and swirled. I also added 100% pure pumpkin, a tablespoon each after dinner, as "dessert".

Within a couple of days, stools regained normal color and firm consistency. Can't be sure what the culprit was, but the pumpkin is a generally safe try and almost always seems to help.

Some months back, PPP changed the look on the bags which was pretty noticeable. What I didn't think to check at first was the ingredients label. When I did, I saw there had been some small changes. The boys didn't seem to notice or care, and it didn't cause any other issues.

I'm also in the habit of saving the bags until they've completely finished the bag, for several reasons. That's how I was able to catch the ingredient change. It's a possibility but usually the changes are slight.

2nd time I noticed a small change in the list.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> A couple of thoughts based on our recent experience with food after the dental work, and some months back, when PPP started changing the look of the bags, some lots had different ingredients.
> 
> First, the food after dental work. We've always added water, sometimes other liquids, to the dry kibble, along with bits from our dinner protein and veggies.
> 
> ...


Thanks Rose. Hope you and your boys are well. 
I'll have to compare ingredients a little later on when I'm awake. In your picture, which is the newest one? The one on the left has glycerin as an ingredient. I've been avoiding treats with glycerin, but didn't think it was in his food.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Perhaps cut back on his food intake a bit. I've found that at time its just a matter of overeating some, like more calories going in than actually needed. Also I've found, in this new pup that if he exercises a lot his stool is softer, firm in beginning the semi soft, shape but not firm. I'm still experimenting with him to find the right proportions.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

94Magna_Tom said:


> I'll have to compare ingredients a little later on when I'm awake.


The ingredients between the older 35# bag (different looking kibble that he is less fond of) and the new 6# bag are identical. In a taste test, time and time again, Elroy chooses the kibble from the 6# bag and refuses the 35# bag kibble. 







Purina Pro Plan Puppy - Chicken







6 lb bag sample: PPP-Puppy Chicken







35 lb bag sample: PPP-Puppy Chicken







6 lb bag sample on left, 35 lb bag sample on right: PPP-Puppy


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Mufar42 said:


> Perhaps cut back on his food intake a bit. I've found that at time its just a matter of overeating some, like more calories going in than actually needed. Also I've found, in this new pup that if he exercises a lot his stool is softer, firm in beginning the semi soft, shape but not firm. I'm still experimenting with him to find the right proportions.


I think this is part of it. I have a feeling his food intake will reduce as a result of removing the toppers, and using only kibble as treats. We have class on Monday at 1pm, so I'll probably need to give some higher value treats then, but for this "experiment", I'll be withholding treats until then. Vet visit is right after class at 3:30pm. That'll end up as 4½ days on only kibble (if I can hold out). That should be enough time to determine if food is the issue. "What food", well that'll come next. I'm hoping it's the "funny looking" kibble so I can still use his treats for training.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Have you reached out to Purina about the difference? Everything you’ve described points to a quality control issue. I would be tossing the bag that Elroy doesn’t love. Or, even better, returning it to the retailer. I think Elroy’s telling you something is up.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Thanks Rose. Hope you and your boys are well.
> I'll have to compare ingredients a little later on when I'm awake. In your picture, which is the newest one? The one on the left has glycerin as an ingredient. I've been avoiding treats with glycerin, but didn't think it was in his food.


Thanks, Tom. All's good here .

First, I want to mention that while others have reported issues with glycerin as an ingredient in food or treats, we've never had a problem related to glycerin or any other food ingredient (so long as fresh lol), since I've been aware of this and checking. All incidents of soft or worse stools can be identified to illness or post op reactions.

I really hadn't paid "research level" attention til whenever I started reading on, and posting about, nutrition here, and out in the wild.

Timeline
Jan 2020
switched to Purina Pro Plan Small Breed Shredded Chicken "Savor"

















Oct 2020
Purina started making changes to their product lines, refreshing the packaging look, renaming the variations, changing the formula a bit as well as the look of the kibble. For a while, the "shredded" bits were removed and smooth kibble only was in the bag.
From the look above to this below


















Jan 2021
ingredient change
(note Guaranteed Analysis values seem to remain the same thruout. haven't had them all sxs)









Feb 2021
photo from my first post









Sep 2021
photo of bag just finished and current bag
(not sure which is which now lol)

















It seems that for some months they were switching between two formulas although once the "shreddy" bits reappeared, they have remained. The formula also seems to have stabilized to the pictures from today.

We go thru a 6lb bag in three weeks (sorry standard owners lol), so probably about 9-10 bags since Feb 2021. In that time, I was watching the ingredients listed on each bag and did pick up one that was the alternate formula. Closer inspection of the sell by/use by dates had the go away date as much sooner on that one alternate. I think they may have just had some older stock that was still within those dates but newer stock sold first.
It may be too late to verify that for your bags, but if the one he doesn't like so much is closer to expiration, maybe???


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Best by dates are only 1 month apart. I think it could be a bad batch.


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## Rug Guy (Jan 29, 2019)

I recently went through this with Bentley and PPP sensitive. Similar stools to what you describe, started removing treats (difficult because he’s an obedience trials dog), stool sample work ups, nothing changed. One day he had explosive diarrhea and I rushed him to the emergency vet with no real resolution. We did a full IBD work up with little indication of anything wrong. Vet suggested Royal canin high fiber rx food and within 3 days he was fine. He now eats science diet and Royal canin mixed (because Royal canin is having serious supply issues and I don’t want to end up without a food he is accustomed to) and doing fine.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Rose n Poos said:


> We've always added water, sometimes other liquids,


I should specify also.
1 poodle at +/- 13lb, 1 poodle at +/- 14lb.
1/4c of kibble plus topper x 2 daily per poodle, 1.5oz water added per meal per poodle.
Water bowls filled to 12/13oz daily and barely touched most days.



94Magna_Tom said:


> 50 lbs) eats Purina Pro Plan Puppy, soaked with water (as much as it will absorb), 3 cups/day, 3x a day.





94Magna_Tom said:


> water added. It's 1½ cups per meal, so it 4½ cups/day. Beyond that, he only drinks a little more from his water bowl. Maybe ¼-1 cup/day.





94Magna_Tom said:


> Can excess water alone lead to soft stool?


Your answer might be yes. Typical water intake charts suggest 1/2 to 1oz water per lb, depending on various this's and that's.
Elroy might be getting more liquid than he needs, or not enough fiber to absorb the liquid, so softer stools.

My boys are at the low end of the spectrum. They may drink 3-4oz of the water in their bowls, combined, and the 3oz total added to their kibble, they're drinking at or less than the low end. After surgery they were getting the additional moisture from the wet food, and the usual amount to gravy things up (in this case to allow almost "drinking" their food the first few days), I think that the additional moisture that they weren't used to, but no increase in fiber, was probably the cause. Reducing the canned wet food and adding the pumpkin (fiber), got them back on track.


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## Bailey_Whiskey (Jan 18, 2021)

I realized over the years, my dogs just prefer the smaller bags. Fresher perhaps. But that doesn't bode well for wallet as smaller bags are always more expensive where we are..


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

After 5 day of just kibble, and 5 days of kibble and treats, my conclusion is that the bag of kibble (that he didn't like so much) was "off". No sure in what way, but "off" should suffice to convey the meaning. His poops are regularly pretty firm now. Are the probiotics helping, can't say, but it isn't hurting. I feel better now that he's regular again!
Thank you all for the advice and support along the way!


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

What a great photo, Tom - Elroy at his perch!


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Liz said:


> What a great photo, Tom - Elroy at his perch!


Indeed! It is HIS spot!


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Seems proper to provide a follow up on this past issue. Elroy's stool has been firm and proper since the last post. I will recap what I think I know, and what I suspect was the primary issue.
Changes to food:
1. Stopped using the bag of (Purina pro plan-puppy) food that Elroy was trying to tell me was bad. Suspect it was rancid.
2. Stopped adding water to his kibble.
3. Added a once/day probiotic to his diet for 45 days.

After his stools got better, I reintroduced treats. As of late, he's getting an assortment of cheese, chicken, chicken jerky, hot dog, liverwurst, dehydrated beef liver, pork hearts, beef hearts, and salmon, and more...).

My conclusion is the initial bag of kibble was rancid causing the issue. I also feel that discontinuing adding water to his kibble and the 45 days of probiotics helped remedy the situation.
I think as long as the kibble isn't rancid, Elroy pretty much has an iron gut!😋


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Great update!


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Great news! Thank you for the update! 😊


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Thanks for the update. Rescue puppy has been having issues also on puppy ppp. Now they do have different formulas , Jett has been on this one Purina Pro Plan Puppy Shredded Blend Chicken & Rice Formula. Right now he is eating Science diet digestive care, still on and off mashed potato stool but seems to be firming up. There are just too many choices out there.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Ohh, forgot to mention. The PPP-Puppy, "shredded blend", which isn't what he had issues with, but is what he's eating now, has glycerin in it. Also about ¼ of the treats I give him have glycerin in them. So for Elroy, glycerin doesn't seem to cause loose stools.
His current kibbles are 1) PPP-Puppy, chicken & rice, shredded blend, 2) Blue Buffalo Puppy, chicken & brown rice, 3) Orijen Puppy, chicken/turkey/fish. I mix them all together ⅓ each.
I will likely keep trying new foods when bags run out. He is not a very aggressive eater at all. Eats (kibble) only when he's hungry, usually not immediately when I put it out.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I do think the rescue pup has an issue with glycerin. I didn't realize the ppp shredded had it. He has finally done well on the SD, digestive care, perfecto poos, lol now I will keep him on this for another week or two before investigating further. Thanks for the info.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Mufar42 said:


> I do think the rescue pup has an issue with glycerin. I didn't realize the ppp shredded had it. He has finally done well on the SD, digestive care, perfecto poos, lol now I will keep him on this for another week or two before investigating further. Thanks for the info.


The PPP regular (non-shredded) does not have glycerin. It must just be in the larger soft "chunks" in the shredded formula. Just my educated guess.


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