# Question on rally rules, need some help!



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I have done tons of rally including being a match judge and teaching two recent new signs classes for the masters class and for the other classes.

Easy thing first is the heeling. You can let your left hand swing normally at your side and can do that in obedience too. With Lily I heel with my hand at my side, but with Javelin I hold my hand at my waist because he is just tall enough and/or I am just short enough that I would whack him in the head if I left my hand at my side. I know OTCh handlers with small dogs who heel with their left hand held naturally at their side. The rules only specify that your left hand has to be one or the other of those places. And in rally you are allowed to pat your leg through advanced but not in excellent or masters so I don't do it at all.

Now as to the drop/down signal, it isn't the pointing finger that would be considered to be the lure it is the possibility of food in your closed hand that would be considered the lure. Particularly important in masters, but also excellent is not to pat your leg or do anything that appears to be luring. I therefore think it makes sense to get rid of any signal that could be construed as luring by a judge with a sharp pencil long before you get to those classes. I use my left hand held flat and palm side down to signal my drops for rally. It really shouldn't be hard to switch the signal if you use your verbal as aa bridge to the new signal.

Have fun!


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## PintSizePoodles (Mar 10, 2018)

Thanks so much for the thorough answer!

I completely understand the do things a certain way now so that down the road it's correct, even if I am not really planning on more than novice with this particular dog (but who knows, he may surprise me, he's reactive towards other dogs and while we've worked hard on focusing around other dogs, I'm not sure I'd ever feel comfortable working him off leash at a venue). We've dabbled a bit in agility and have done AKC trick dog, and I think rally would be a nice activity to make a goal for 2018/2019.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Now that there is no honor exercise in rally excellent there is no time that you would ever be in a ring with another dog on or off leash unless you take your dog in for the awards. Unless I have finished a title or placed I don't generally bring my dog in for awards. Also rally intermediate (a new optional class) is on leash as a transition if you think it would help.

If you are interested in searching around we have had a number of discussions on the value of focused attention and how to teach it. LMK if you need help finding them.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I'm competing in Cyanosport WCRL Rally and preparing for AKC Competition Obedience and probably next year I'll compete in AKC Rally. 

Rally is definitely looser than competition obedience.

I completely agree with Catherine - your "point" can look like you're hiding food and interpreted as luring. You can keep your same signal, just slowly loosen up your hand till it's open as you train your dogs and they will quickly adapt to the slightly modified hand signal. I've noticed several judges, during the rally walk through before competition have made the same point that I think is helpful. It was said in response to heeling fast and slow - they have all said make it clear and different from normal heeling, don't leave them guessing because they may guess wrong and you'll lose points. Don't make any hand movement that looks like you are luring with food - don't leave the judge guessing, keep your hand open.

Catherine stating the rules for hand placement for AKC Competition Obedience. I understand your comment about people's hands being all over the place in Rally and it's because you need to use them to signal all kinds of changes that you are making as you move through the exercises - swinging your hands to help guide your dog to front, making pivots right and left, telling your dog to sit/stand/laydown and to wait in a sit or stand etc. While I keep my hand on my waist for heeling on Competition Obedience, I find my hand is often hanging down in Rally in preparation to signal. I never pat my leg to encourage heeling as I can't do that in AKC Competition Obedience. 

I do think ahead, like Catherine and there are several things you can do in the beginner levels that you can't do in advanced. For example in level 1 and 2 you can take several steps back when you call your dog into front position so you can help them come in straight. You are not allowed steps back in the highest level - level 3. Since my dog comes in straight and I am preparing to compete in level 3, I never step back. 

Good luck with the Rally - it's lots of fun.


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## PintSizePoodles (Mar 10, 2018)

Thanks for more info!

I was thinking I could very easily loosen my hands to make it clear there is no luring type look to what I'm doing, so thats going to be my plan (also, I suppose I could just use a verbal command if I'm that worried about it...).

I do a reactive dog class once a week where we do all the behaviors you'd do in rally as well as lots of shaping behaviors (we've been doing that for 9 months now) and the instructor thinks we may be ready to move into the rally class, where I am working my 9 month old pup at the moment. While Voodoo (reactive dog) has dramatically improved (and so have I!), he still has moments of see another dog and bark, and so I think we will be pretty pleased to even make it into a novice ring and perhaps if that goes well, I'd like to also try the optional obedience beginner novice title for AKC...I secretly would like to get the AKC achiever dog cert , so with that + rally + the trick titles, I think it's possible (I don't think we are ever going to have the approach a dog and act calm requirement to do a CGC...maybe in old age!).


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Don't keep wanting to do things like getting the Achiever Dog title a secret! Poodles are such smart and fun dogs who want to do great things with us, we should celebrate that out in the sunshine.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Add in nosework if you can find a class. It is great for reactive dogs as only one dog is allowed near the working area at a time. And most dogs love it.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

spindledreams I would think nose work is a great confidence builder for dogs that need a little boost there too since it takes advantage of their best sensory skill. Great suggestion.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I forgot to add - in both AKC and WCRL made huge changes in the rally rules/exercises. 

In WCRL they have made heeling important - so any videos that you have watched that predate 2018 rules may be showing actions which may not get the high scores they did in the past.

Nosework is fun - we haven't done any yet but it's become very popular in my area and the classes are always filled.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Skylar you are so spot on about the rules changes. I actually think it is harder to get a RACh than an OTCh in AKC with the points schedule the way it is and needing triple Qs. It is important to make sure you are looking at new videos if you do watch online. The AKC has put up a bunch of good videos on the new rally signs and some for the May 2018 obedience changes that are coming as well.


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## PintSizePoodles (Mar 10, 2018)

Thanks all for the replies and details!


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