# Potential Mini Stud boy - which genetic tests as a puppy?



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Here's a link for the recommendations from OFA. https://www.ofa.org/recommended-tests?breed=PO&var=MIN


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## BabetteH (May 1, 2019)

lily cd re said:


> Here's a link for the recommendations from OFA. https://www.ofa.org/recommended-tests?breed=PO&var=MIN


Thanks, I've looked at those before, we'll do them when he's older. I was wanting to more if there are any additional tests that are useful. What about color carrier? All three generations on his pedigree are black.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Now you are a little out of my range. I hope you find what you need.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

In standard poodles most people are starting to get genetic diversity done not sure if it’s as ‘needed’ in minis. 
I know of a breeder that appeared to have all solid lines and she bred to a stud that appeared to have all solid lines and she came out with phantom puppies. A rare occurrence I’m sure but it happens


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

BabetteH said:


> We have a 6 months old miniature poodle and hope to breed with him at some point. Which genetic tests do you recommend?...


The lab I recommend most is *Paw Print Genetics*. It's owned and staffed by vets and Ph.D's, their site is very informative including their blog, and it's easy talking to the head doctor/vet about questions.

It does all five of the DNA tests available for poodles and testing for other dog breeds. Here's the direct link for the Miniature Poodle. They currently have a half price sale off the listed $275, so the cost would be $137.50 thru July. If you miss it they'll probably run a 30 or 40% discount in August. Just type in the code word from their home page for the discount. The test is a simple cheek swab. 

DDC Vet DNA Center offers nearly the all the same tests on their Poodle Disease Panel, except the one for Skeletal Dwarfism, for $98. They also run discounts from time to time. 


*Tests for Colors*

Both labs also test for color inheritance, which will give you an idea of what colors the puppies might be depending on the female. 

You mentioned all three generations were black, I'll assume on both sides. Black is the BB gene, but your boy might be a carrier of the brown color, which is the Bb gene. He might also be a carrier of Ee the yellow gene (white, apricot, red) and if bred with a black female who is also Ee, or one of those colors just mentione which is the ee gene, some or all of the puppies could be a lighter color. 

Some blacks turn to blues or a steely-grayish black, but this isn't reflected on the pedigree b/c it didn't happen until the dog was a older. 

This short but concise article, Black Poodles, is excellent for understanding this, i.e., "All blue Poodles are born black and then "clear" within 1 to 2 years. For this reason, many blue Poodles are registered as black. So there may be a gene going back into the 4th or 5th or 8th generation that pops up in a puppy that causes it to later turn blue. I've read black poodles in the UK and Europe tend to stay a rich inky black, but don't quote me on this. 

Here's a good article on Blue vs Black.

If you use DDC, select the 4th option, _Full Color Panel_ for $168, no blood test required. 

If you use Paw Prints, it'll be less expensive this month, and they prefer a blood sample. You'd want to call them to ask which tests to run. My guess is

A locus (Agouti) 
B locus (Brown)
D Locus (Dilute)
E Locus (Yellow/red/white/apricot, etc)
Eg Locus (Grizzle, Afghan Hound Type)
Em Locus (Melanistic Mask)
K Locus (Dominant Black)

To find out more about dog color DNA, also see these sites:

Written for the layman: 
Dog Coat Colour Genetics

More advanced, but still interesting:

Genetics of Coat Color and Type in Dogs

Same site, topic on poodles


*Breeding*

Please make sure before you breed your male that the female has a recent test for *Brucellosis*. It is highly infectious, incurable and will leave a dog sterile. It also poses a serious health risk to humans. 

Also at bare minimum, make sure the female has had the PRA-PRCA eye test. No need bringing in blind dogs or carriers of blindness into the world, it's too traumatic on their owners. If the owner of a dam says they can't afford the eye test or Brucellosis test, then they really can't afford to breed poodles. 

Good luck in the show ring and send us pictures!


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## BabetteH (May 1, 2019)

Thank you, this is super useful. I'll order tomorrow!


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

You might want to consider that dogs used at stud tend to "mark" the house. "Marking" means spraying urine on an object. People who breed dogs responsibly will insist on genetic testing, but beyond that, they usually want to see that the stud dog has been shown successfully or has achieved performance titles. They will look at the dog's conformation to see if that dog complements their bitch.


For example, I am presently looking at male miniature poodles who are standing at stud. I want the dog to have a pedigree that does not have white, cream, or brown in five generations - only black and possibly silver. I want the dog to have a better than average front - well-angulated and with plenty of forechest. I want one with a good wiry coat. These are all areas in which my bitch is lacking. I will be working with the breeder of my bitch to identify an ideal male.


So breeding dogs (or any animals) does take quite a bit of study.


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## BabetteH (May 1, 2019)

Johanna said:


> So breeding dogs (or any animals) does take quite a bit of study.


Definitely! And I would only partner with a breeder who knows a lot more than I do for the sake of the animals.

He's a jet black mini from Europe, I think he might be interesting for some AKC breeders. 

PS: We're taking breed handling, competitive obedience, and beginner scent work classes. I'm hoping to put some points and titles on him.


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## BabetteH (May 1, 2019)

Quick update, we ordered the poodle panel from Paw Print Genetics and he's clear for all those diseases. If he doesn't get disqualified at the next show, I'll order the color test to see if he carries any brown.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Good news on the genetic screenings. You are making some progress. I hope you make some progress in putting points on this boy soon! When/where are you showing next? There are shows on Long Island in September (late in the month).


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## BabetteH (May 1, 2019)

We're showing in Germany (near Frankfurt) next week. The standard is very strict in some areas, e.g., a missing tooth means you get disqualified and can't breed (offspring doesn't get papers). I'm hoping to go to one or both of the Long Island Shows, I have a friend with a white standard who'll hopefully come too. Are you going to Oyster Bay or the other place (forgot the name)? Would be great to meet you!

And of course we need to wait until adult hood and see about Hip dysplasia and patella.


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