# Are Poodles a head breed?



## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

This is what I got told recently that without a pretty face a poodle has no chance of wining no matter how correctly built it is or now nice it is overall. 

What are your thoughts on this?


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

Pretty much. With the sociable nature and intense gaze and shaved face, the head soaks so much attention. For me it's top importance right along with movement and presence, and proper coat type.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

spindledreams said:


> This is what I got told recently that without a pretty face a poodle has no chance of wining no matter how correctly built it is or now nice it is overall.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this?


I think they need a respectable head to be successful in the show ring. Some judges are head hunters and look for stunning heads, others will forgive so so heads. But a hideous head will lack breed type.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Gracie "Not just a pretty face?"


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

From Poodle Clipping and Grooming by Shirlee Kalstone pp 66

Value of Points
General appearance, temperament, carriage and condition:30
Head, expression, ears, eye, and teeth: 20
Body, neck,legs, feet and tail :20
Gait :20
Coat, color and texture:10

I have no show experience but a pretty face in any beauty contest helps...


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I think there are judges who want a glorious head, while another will be very focused on movement, and another on body structure. But I believe a Poodle must have a lovely head to do anything in the ring. They all might forgive a squirrel tail but none will forgive an unappealing head.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Mfmst said:


> From Poodle Clipping and Grooming by Shirlee Kalstone pp 66
> 
> Value of Points
> General appearance, temperament, carriage and condition:30
> ...



It seems to me that all you ever hear poodle "show folk" talk about is movement, movement, movement. Maybe though that is what wins because at that level they will all be mostly equal on the other points?
Timi is a pretty girl no matter where you look, but I think that when you stand back and look at her it is her long legs and well muscled rear that the eye is drawn to...


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

That does sound right, Tiny. Movement covers gait points and carriage. I like the word, carriage, because it implies attitude. All of the dogs are beautiful, but the one that moves like it owns the ring would be hard to deny.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Mfmst said:


> That does sound right, Tiny. Movement covers gait points and carriage. I like the word, carriage, because it implies attitude. All of the dogs are beautiful, but the one that moves like it owns the ring would be hard to deny.



Yup, I was mighty proud when we were walking down the street the other day and a Police Officer said "that's one feisty spunky dog you have" - not like she was barking or acting up or anything - he just saw her attitude as tiny she walked down the street like she owned it ?


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

yes but timi has a poodle head, including the almond eye, which seems to be less prevalent in toys. if she didn't, her movement would still be praised, but she wouldn't garner the same degree of admiration.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Yup, I was mighty proud when we were walking down the street the other day and a Police Officer said "that's one feisty spunky dog you have" - not like she was barking or acting up or anything - he just saw her attitude as tiny she walked down the street like she owned it ?


We are dog crazy here and everyone is blown away when they see a gorgeous specimen. I can imagine the attention she gets on these mean streets  

pr


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

patk said:


> yes but timi has a poodle head, including the almond eye, which seems to be less prevalent in toys. if she didn't, her movement would still be praised, but she wouldn't garner the same degree of admiration.



Oh I think that you would see that in most any toy from a show breeder - it seems to me that in their haphazard efforts to reduce size that "non-show breeders" tend to veer further away from the standard than Spoo breeders of the same ilk. 
Since smallness is a trait that most toy seekers are after, it is easy to see how it happens, don't you think?


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlerunner said:


> We are dog crazy here and everyone is blown away when they see a gorgeous specimen. I can imagine the attention she gets on these mean streets
> 
> 
> 
> pr



Aww, if you could see it through the fur, you would see that Timi is blushing ? What a sweet thing to say!


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