# Looking for a Toy Poodle in Las Vegas..Willing to travel to neighboring states.



## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Hi Talulah, Ash's is a great choice. We've had a number of members here purchase a puppy from her. Las Vegas has a good Poodle club, and you could reach out to them as well. Www.poodlecluboflasvegasnv.com

Forum member @Johanna is in New Mexico, and she is the breeder referral person for the Enchanted Poodle Club. You can ping her here and ask how to get it, or via their website at www.enchantedpoodleclub.com.

You WANT to go with breeders who use objective or outside methods to evaluate their dogs prior to breeding. It's how you help protect both you and your future Poodle from preventable health problems. Show dogs ARE pets, trust me 😊🥰🥰. Reputable, responsible breeders who prove their dogs provide the best pets.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Ash's Mystical is definitely a breeder I'd consider. Clarion in California is another toy breeder that would be at the top of my list. Streetcar beat me to it; I was going to suggest consulting with Johanna for advice as well.

Regarding show vs pet breeders: there is a stereotype that show dogs are hothouse flowers to be avoided. It's not true for poodles. A show poodle must have a good temperament to succeed. She needs to put up with lots of grooming, patiently hold it together while waiting for her class to start, and be polite to the other dogs and the judge when in the ring. These same qualities of patience and good disposition are what you want in a pet. Additionally, due to the cost of showing and breeding, show breeders do not want to introduce genetic health problems into their lines. A good show breeder screens for bad knees, eye problems, etc. before deciding to add a dog to her program.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I was also going to suggest Ash's Mystical.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

I believe Zamora is also in California. Clarion and Ash's also have great reputations.

Show breeders are definitely the way to go. I believe that for toys you want genetic testing, eye testing, and patella testing to be completed on the parent dogs.


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## Talulah23 (Oct 26, 2021)

Streetcar said:


> Hi Talulah, Ash's is a great choice. We've had a number of members here purchase a puppy from her. Las Vegas has a good Poodle club, and you could reach out to them as well. Www.poodlecluboflasvegasnv.com
> 
> Forum member @Johanna is in New Mexico, and she is the breeder referral person for the Enchanted Poodle Club. You can ping her here and ask how to get it, or via their website at www.enchantedpoodleclub.com.
> 
> You WANT to go with breeders who use objective or outside methods to evaluate their dogs prior to breeding. It's how you help protect both you and your future Poodle from preventable health problems. Show dogs ARE pets, trust me 😊🥰🥰. Reputable, responsible breeders who prove their dogs provide the best pets.


Thank you! I will definitely look into them!


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## Talulah23 (Oct 26, 2021)

Streetcar said:


> Hi Talulah, Ash's is a great choice. We've had a number of members here purchase a puppy from her. Las Vegas has a good Poodle club, and you could reach out to them as well. Www.poodlecluboflasvegasnv.com
> 
> Forum member @Johanna is in New Mexico, and she is the breeder referral person for the Enchanted Poodle Club. You can ping her here and ask how to get it, or via their website at www.enchantedpoodleclub.com.
> 
> You WANT to go with breeders who use objective or outside methods to evaluate their dogs prior to breeding. It's how you help protect both you and your future Poodle from preventable health problems. Show dogs ARE pets, trust me 😊🥰🥰. Reputable, responsible breeders who prove their dogs provide the best pets.





cowpony said:


> Ash's Mystical is definitely a breeder I'd consider. Clarion in California is another toy breeder that would be at the top of my list. Streetcar beat me to it; I was going to suggest consulting with Johanna for advice as well.
> 
> Regarding show vs pet breeders: there is a stereotype that show dogs are hothouse flowers to be avoided. It's not true for poodles. A show poodle must have a good temperament to succeed. She needs to put up with lots of grooming, patiently hold it together while waiting for her class to start, and be polite to the other dogs and the judge when in the ring. These same qualities of patience and good disposition are what you want in a pet. Additionally, due to the cost of showing and breeding, show breeders do not want to introduce genetic health problems into their lines. A good show breeder screens for bad knees, eye problems, etc. before deciding to add a dog to her program.


Thank you! I was just a little cautious looking at breeders who breed show dogs as I felt as thought I was ‘allowed’ haha! But that’s great to know!


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## Talulah23 (Oct 26, 2021)

Raindrops said:


> I believe Zamora is also in California. Clarion and Ash's also have great reputations.
> 
> Show breeders are definitely the way to go. I believe that for toys you want genetic testing, eye testing, and patella testing to be completed on the parent dogs.


So the consensus seems to be look for a show dog even if it won’t be a show dog?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Talulah23 said:


> So the consensus seems to be look for a show dog even if it won’t be a show dog?


An excellent blog post on this topic:









I don’t want a show dog; I just want a pet.







rufflyspeaking.net


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## Talulah23 (Oct 26, 2021)

Streetcar said:


> Hi Talulah, Ash's is a great choice. We've had a number of members here purchase a puppy from her. Las Vegas has a good Poodle club, and you could reach out to them as well. Www.poodlecluboflasvegasnv.com
> 
> Forum member @Johanna is in New Mexico, and she is the breeder referral person for the Enchanted Poodle Club. You can ping her here and ask how to get it, or via their website at www.enchantedpoodleclub.com.
> 
> You WANT to go with breeders who use objective or outside methods to evaluate their dogs prior to breeding. It's how you help protect both you and your future Poodle from preventable health problems. Show dogs ARE pets, trust me 😊🥰🥰. Reputable, responsible breeders who prove their dogs provide the best pets.


Do you buy chance know how much Ash’s sells her poodles for? I don’t want to waste her time if it’s out of my price range.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Talulah23 said:


> So the consensus seems to be look for a show dog even if it won’t be a show dog?


Most puppies produced by show breeders go to pet homes rather than show homes. But buying from a show breeder means you are getting a dog bred for good healthy structure and sound temperament. "Pet" breeders are typically in it for the money and though some may be better than others, in general you will get higher quality from a show or sport breeder.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Not every dog coming out of a show kennel is show quality. My boy has a tiny patch of white on his chest and a curly tail. He would not have done well in the show ring with those flaws, so he gets to be a pet instead. Lucky me! It's quite common for toy breeders to hold back a puppy and then have the little guy grow too big to be shown. Some lucky pet buyer then gets a beautiful little pup.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Offering my Tips list for selecting a quality breeder. Much of this is covered above but not all.

*We often hear from folks that they just want a pet.* What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that the kind of quality, conscientious breeders many of us prefer to support are _always_ breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions, but are flawless to us .

*It's not unusual to think that there are possibly thousands of breeders to choose from*. For quality, conscientious breeders, that number is more likely only in the hundreds in the US or Canada. A bottom line difference is between those who're breeding primarily for profit and those who're breeding because they feel not only love for poodles but an obligation to the entire breed. Each of their, usually infrequent, breedings are thoughtfully chosen to try to improve something in their lines and consequently the future of the breed.

*About reviews,* a happy owner doesn't necessarily mean an informed owner. It's as likely they've just been lucky, so far. Review any negative comments carefully, if they're allowed to appear.

*Getting a puppy from a quality, conscientious breeder is something like insurance*. Their investment in the health, welfare, and soundness of all the dogs in their care including the puppies they offer to new homes is part of the reason you're not likely to find a less than $2000 USD puppy from them.

The saying is "pay the breeder or pay the vet". Price alone isn't the only thing to separate quality breeders from those less than. We've seen members quote as high, and even much higher pricing for pups from parents not health tested, not proven to meet breed standards, sold as purebred when only a DNA test could determine that since they may be sold without registration papers.

If I knew the risks and have dedicated poodle health savings of several thousand dollars or pet insurance, knew that basically that the breeder and I would part ways as soon as the pup was in my hands because they're very unlikely to stand behind their pup and me thru the pups life, I might proceed with a breeder that doesn't meet my criteria.

But

I also wouldn't pay quality breeder prices, and over, unless I'm getting all the quality breeder perks.


*Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder.* The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

*Look for and verify OFA/CHIC level testing at a minimum.*
There are also poodle specific DNA panels for other testable genetic conditions. Those are companion tests with the OFA/CHIC testing, not in place of.
CHIC Program | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)
Browse By Breed | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

*POODLE, TOY*
AKC Non-Sporting Group; UKC Companion Dog Group; TKC Utility Group

OFA-CHIC Health Testing Requirements

The OFA, working with the breed's parent club, recommends the following basic health screening tests for all breeding stock. Dogs meeting these basic health screening requirements will be issued Canine Health Information Center (CHIC) numbers. For CHIC certification, all results do not need to be normal, but they must all be in the public domain so that responsible breeders can make more informed breeding decisions. For potential puppy buyers, CHIC certification is a good indicator the breeder responsibly factors good health into their selection criteria. The breed specific list below represents the basic health screening recommendations. It is not all encompassing. There may be other health screening tests appropriate for this breed. And, there may be other health concerns for which there is no commonly accepted screening protocol available.



*Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)*
DNA-based test from an approved laboratory; results registered with OFA ➚
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Patellar Luxation*
OFA Evaluation, minimum age 1 year ➚


*A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much to back it if *the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

*Read thru any contracts that may be listed. *If they rule out coverage for conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?

*Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times* and with pandemic puppy seekers, that wait is stretched well into 2021-2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs, 9-5 paying job, and family, rather than keep a website updated.

*When you start making contacts, *let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.

*Color preferences are understandable but* keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies.
That beautiful color you fell for may not look the same in a few weeks, or months, or years. Most poodle colors fade.

*Gender preferences* will also limit your options.

*Temperament and personality* are lifelong traits.

*Be prepared to spend *in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

*Be prepared to travel *outside your preferred area.

*As a very general rule, websites to be leery of* are those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience".

*Be wary of a breeder who sells a puppy with full registration rights (breeding rights which allow pups to be registered with the AKC) simply for the price of admission.* A responsible breeder will not allow their reputation and their poodles to be bred by anyone, to any dog, without having a contractual say in the breeding and the pups. They will want to be involved.

*One additional caution, be very wary of those very cute short legged poodles.* That's a genetic mutation which may carry serious life-altering disease.

*An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. *An online search for "Poodle Club of *___* (your city or state/province)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.
PCA National Breeder Referral - The Poodle Club of America
Search for Local Clubs/Breeders - The Poodle Club of America

*As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, this is my shortlist criteria.*

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come.
Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is _well bred._


*Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time *

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards physically and temperamentally, and are sound by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

Spend the money up front. I get it's a tough pill to swallow, but it's more likely a smarter decision in the long run. Here's my real life analogy:

For example, you could buy a $30 pair of Levi jeans, but they will end up wearing out a hole between the thighs after 3 months and you will need to replaced them. Or, you could buy a pair of Lucky Jeans for $100 that will be 1) more comfortable 2) softer 3) stretchier and 4) last 2+ years before starting to show signs of wear.

Get the Lucky Jeans...


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Dear Talulah23,
I trust you mean that you live in Las Vegas, Nevada, not Las Vegas, New Mexico! There is a toy poodle breeder in Grants, New Mexico. Grants is in the northwest corner of New Mexico, so not too far from you. Her name is Mickey Kern. Her email is [email protected]. Her phone number is 505-290-7835.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Good point, Johanna! Seems like I vaguely recall a restaurant in Las Vegas, NM where we liked to stop on the way to Colorado. Soooo long ago.


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## Talulah23 (Oct 26, 2021)

Johanna said:


> Dear Talulah23,
> I trust you mean that you live in Las Vegas, Nevada, not Las Vegas, New Mexico! There is a toy poodle breeder in Grants, New Mexico. Grants is in the northwest corner of New Mexico, so not too far from you. Her name is Mickey Kern. Her email is [email protected]. Her phone number is 505-290-7835.


Thank you! I do mean Las Vegas, Nevada but I will be checking her out!


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## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

cowpony said:


> Ash's Mystical is definitely a breeder I'd consider. Clarion in California is another toy breeder that would be at the top of my list. Streetcar beat me to it; I was going to suggest consulting with Johanna for advice as well.
> 
> Regarding show vs pet breeders: there is a stereotype that show dogs are hothouse flowers to be avoided. It's not true for poodles. A show poodle must have a good temperament to succeed. She needs to put up with lots of grooming, patiently hold it together while waiting for her class to start, and be polite to the other dogs and the judge when in the ring. These same qualities of patience and good disposition are what you want in a pet. Additionally, due to the cost of showing and breeding, show breeders do not want to introduce genetic health problems into their lines. A good show breeder screens for bad knees, eye problems, etc. before deciding to add a dog to her program.


just wanted to give a heads up that the Clarion toys are in Oregon 😅 the minis are in California though 😊


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Phaz23 said:


> just wanted to give a heads up that the Clarion toys are in Oregon 😅 the minis are in California though 😊


Thanks for the update.


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