# Underweight Toy



## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I have the same issue with Vegas, my standard. I call him my anorexic poodle. I can't get weight on him, but Vienna gains it off of nothing. I went to the butcher and bought some beef fat trimmings and I'll give that to him occasionally, but not too often because I don't want it being too rich.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

The raw meat is unbalancing the diet and causing deficiencies, which may be causing the anorexia. Raw meat needs to be balanced with minerals and vitamins EVEN IF KIBBLE IS FED.

The simplest way to start approaching the problem is to stop feeding raw meat. More challenging is to determine what nutrient(s) he is deficient in and correct the imbalance.


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## Dioritt (Aug 3, 2011)

Thanks for the responses. I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem (although glad is probably the wrong word - relieved would be better).

Tortoise. To be honest, I'd rather stop feeding the kibble than stop feeding the meat. I'm a believer in raw diets for dogs and my previous dogs have always thrived this way. I suppose I should have mentioned that he also gets bones, eggs, offal and antlers, all of which add to the nutrients. But, as I said, if it doesn't improve then I'll speak to my vet about it. Perhaps you're right and I should just drop the meat. I'm still not sure how much kibble he'd actually eat though as he really doesn't eat very much of it at all.

It's so difficult when you want to do what's best for your dog but aren't sure what IS actually best. *sigh*


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## Annie and me (Jun 30, 2011)

My toy poodle also doesn't like to eat. I tried a variety of kibbles, but she was always super thin. I recently broke down and added canned food to her kibble - just a small spoonful mixed with a touch of hot water to make a sort of gravy, then mixed well to coat the kibble (if I don't do it that way, she'll find a way to eat only the canned food and sort out the kibble - the stinker!). Once I did that, she's been eating much more and has put on a bit of weight.


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## Lilah+Jasper (May 13, 2010)

I think a vet visit is a good idea especially since this is a toy. If the vet finds no underlying medical issues, search for "satin ball" posts here for the recipe.

Please keep us posted...


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would drop the kibble, and feed a balanced raw diet - after checking with the vet. Toys have small tums - better to fill it up with protein, fat and bone than carbohydrates.

Green tripe might help - Prize Choice frozen chunks are widely available.


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## oceanrose (Sep 10, 2011)

Oh those picky picky little dogs! I agree, the raw is better than the kibble.

I would pick up the kibble for a start. Feed him 2-3 times a day. If he eats the raw, drop the kibble. Feed chicken necks in the evening, and a minced meat and veggie mix in the morning. Tripe is great. I use canned tripe from Solid Gold, but you can also get frozen. If he needs to gain weight, make sure there is a little bit of highly digestible grain in his raw diet, and up the fat. As someone said Satin Balls will add weight quickly, but in reality any type of slightly fatty meat will along with a bit of grain. 

Remember, a toy's tummy is so small, that he can really only comfortably eat a small amount, so the most nutritious bang for your buck is important


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Run your raw diet agianst AAFCO and find the deficiencies and/or excesses. Often excesses are more harmful than deficiencies.

My puppy's growth plateaued an I noticed the beginning of dandruff, I rechecked the raw diet portion and was a little low on omega-6 and a tiny bit under many vitamins. I added 600 mg 3-6-9 oil blend and a seaweed blend powder and his growth was back to normal and dandruff gone in 2 weeks.

Before you go 100% raw, make sure your raw diet is not the cause of the problem!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

My toy was thin on kibble. I switched to raw and now he loves meal time. I feed a balanced commerical raw - Aunt Jenni's. Swizzle is still lean but the vet said he is very muscular and his weight is fine. I have heard that people have very good luck with the satin balls and tripe. Make sure not to get the white tripe. I am still looking for a nice green tripe in my area. If you are worried that your raw diet is not balanced you could post it here too or as tortoise suggested run it through AAFCO. fjm has a great recipe on the forum for liver treats which you might want to try.

I almost forgot to tell you Alfie is adorable. What a cute picture.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Another option might be NatureDiet, which most dogs love - it is quite expensive, but is often available online at special offer prices. For raw, DAF (Durham Animal Feeds) do a very wide range of minces, mostly with 10% bone, and I've heard good things about Berriewood, too, if they deliver in your area. RawToGo do the DAF range mail order if you cannot find it locally, although postage is rather steep. As I posted earlier, I find the Prize Choice tripe chunks the least repulsive - minced tripe is yuck, and the DAF chunks are huge! Pets at Home stock Prize Choice, I think (be aware the PC mince does not contain bone). Morrisons have the best and cheapest range of heart and offal that I have found. Hope that helps!


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

Can I just add that Prize Choice chicken and turkey 400g packs contain bone? I just checked their info here: http://www.prizechoice.co.uk/pc-leaflet.pdf

...but I wonder what the percentage of bone is?

I think Prize Choice is a fantastic option for people turning to BARF, because it's available from Pets At Home (large UK chain) but I think more people need to write to them to get them to change certain things. Maybe a petition from us Poodlers? For instance, I would like to see them selling their rabbit dinner without any chicken in it. I don't care how much it costs - I just want the best thing! Surely lots of owners feel this way?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Thanks Ruscha - my local stockist needs to update their staff training! Proves it is always worth asking the original supplier ...

I get rabbit from DAF. PC is great for its wide availability, but I think DAF has a better choice (especially of single proteins), and it is considerably cheaper! I am very fortunate that there is a sort of informal cooperative forming near me, where the chap running it is also sourcing from local butchers. I have yet to find a better source of tripe than PC, though - the chunks are just the right size for easy feeding!


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

I don't feed raw (other than the occasional chicken wing), but have had good luck with the combo of Orijen kibble and Naturediet wet trays. My dog is definitely not too skinny! I also supplement with table scraps, olive oil, cottage cheese, sardines, grated cheese, chicken broth, etc.

I mostly order from Zooplus, who are great. They turn orders around quickly, and carry a wide range of stuff that ISN'T made in China. Much of it comes from Germany. They carry both Orijen and TOTW. And they offer free delivery.


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

fjm said:


> Thanks Ruscha - my local stockist needs to update their staff training! Proves it is always worth asking the original supplier ...
> 
> I get rabbit from DAF. PC is great for its wide availability, but I think DAF has a better choice (especially of single proteins), and it is considerably cheaper! I am very fortunate that there is a sort of informal cooperative forming near me, where the chap running it is also sourcing from local butchers. I have yet to find a better source of tripe than PC, though - the chunks are just the right size for easy feeding!


Your comments regarding DAF have been really useful - thank you. I will have a search for them. The rabbit is minced up and includes bone though, right? I recently had a gut-churning experience with whole hung rabbit. I can't even talk about it now or the smell comes back...


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

JE-UK said:


> I don't feed raw (other than the occasional chicken wing), but have had good luck with the combo of Orijen kibble and Naturediet wet trays. My dog is definitely not too skinny! I also supplement with table scraps, olive oil, cottage cheese, sardines, grated cheese, chicken broth, etc.
> 
> I mostly order from Zooplus, who are great. They turn orders around quickly, and carry a wide range of stuff that ISN'T made in China. Much of it comes from Germany. They carry both Orijen and TOTW. And they offer free delivery.


I thought you were thinking about putting your boy on BARF? What changed your mind, if you don't mind me asking? It took my girls a month to turn their guts around but now I don't look back. Their stools are so firm that I now feel proud when they decide that the high street is the place to lay them out. I could probably even do this with them... layball:


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Another option as I know feeding kibble can be tough for some dogs.

Buy/order canned Tripe (not tripe dog food) the real stuff but in a can and add this into the kibble. I am betting you would see your dog eat its kibble. I have yet to personally meet a dog that didn't love this smelly stuff!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Yes, the rabbit is minced with 10% bone. Mine love it - nearly as much as the genuinely 100% prey model rabbits Tilly cat supplies them with when my back is turned ...


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Ruscha_Baby said:


> I thought you were thinking about putting your boy on BARF? What changed your mind, if you don't mind me asking? It took my girls a month to turn their guts around but now I don't look back. Their stools are so firm that I now feel proud when they decide that the high street is the place to lay them out. I could probably even do this with them... layball:


Well, a couple of things. For some reason, anything tasty but larger than one bite, Vasco thinks he has to bury in the garden. This dog has never ever gone hungry, but he caches stuff like a magpie. I tried raw for a while, feeding chicken necks and shutting him in the kitchen (with me) so he couldn't bury it in either the garden or the sofa, but then he just paces and whines. We still do the odd chicken wing, but I have to sit on the floor with him and hold an end to get him to eat it rather than bury it. 

The other part is, I train a LOT, all the time really. It's super easy to use kibble as a training reward, but harder with raw :smile:.


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