# What kinda of ongoing involvement expected from breeder?



## Jazztoon (May 27, 2010)

What kind of ongoing involvement would you expect and be comfortable with breeder? I am awaiting a puppy from a respectable breeder and I love how thoroughly she is screening, but I'm also worried that she may want to stay TOO involved? I don't know what to expect ... out last breeder (which was also well vetted by me) was great in the process, but later didn't even reply when I'd send her photos of him, so that didn't feel good, but I worry this person may want too much contact (not sure why I'm getting that sense). Im wondering what's normal since our last breeder just kind of was done once he came home with us (though she DID have the lifetime guarantee to take him back if anything went wrong, that was never an issue, I'm just taking about updates or getting involved in what he ate, what shots we gave him, etc)


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

The breeder has no say in anything that isn't specifically spelled out in the purchase contract. She may ask you about things, it is your option whether to reply or not. Some contracts include language which specifies that the breeder isn't responsible for health issues if a given diet or vaccine schedule is not followed, in that case it would still be your choice to provide info about those things unless you were making a claim against the breeder.

A lot of people like to stay in touch with the breeder as a source of information and sometimes help with grooming, behavior, etc.. but if you don't want to you don't have to.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

My breeder I would say is relatively involved in that we maintain occasional contact. She is friends with me on facebook and always compliments photos of him. She has occasionally shared information she feels is useful but she has never tried to have any direct control over what I do with my dog. I like to have some kind of contact. I just don't want them to try to maintain control because I know the dog best and may have to change decisions based on what is best for the dog and what current research supports.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

With Basils breeder - minimal. I just followed up on the contractual obligations in writing and send a picture every 6 months voluntarily.

I signed to have her spayed by 1 year, but I gave the @PTP reasoning to wait until after the third heat and she was okay with it. Obviously Basils just a pet and no intent to start an underground puppy mill...


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

I wouldn't weigh the screening process to heavily in determining how involved a breeder will want to be unless it's a co-own situation or something like that. Most breeders realize that once the puppy is in your hands their range of control is at it's limit. Even enforcing the contract is actually difficult in practice. Knowing that some breeders want to do all they can before they hand the puppy over to ensure a good outcome. 

If you're concerned its always good to be open about your expectations and desires. Open communication is the best protection against hurt feelings and disappointment.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I've encountered several breeders who try various tactics maintain leverage. They want to ensure neutering gets done or have various other reasons. I refuse to work with a breeder that wants co-ownership or holds back registration papers for pet purchases. (Show prospect would be a different story.) I'm not renting the dog. If I pay money I want to own the dog free and clear.

Pogo and Snarky's breeder wanted, and had specified in her contract, that she wanted the occasional update. Indeed we did chat a few times over the first two years. These conversations mostly covered the kind of information any breeder might want to know about how a pairing worked out: how big the puppies grew, whether there were any health issues, that sort of thing. I was comfortable with the reasons for the arrangement and emailed the occasional photo.


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## Meisha (Sep 21, 2020)

Meisha's breeder made me very uncomfortable. When we went to get her, she was very friendly, and my friend who was her original owner kept in touch a little with pics. But when he died suddenly and Meisha came to me, the breeder changed. First, rather than expressing sympathy for my loss when I let her know, she asked how old he was. I told her he was only 67. She asked how old I was and I said 61. She then said that if she had known how OLD we were, she wouldn't have let him have her. I told her I was going to keep her and she said would allow me to have custody but per the contract, Meisha was HER dog. Ok, I suppose she is within her contract rights, but she knew that I had been as much a part of Meisha's life as my friend had been. 

Then, I contacted the microchip company to add my name and contact information. I assumed she was registered to my friend. Turns out, Meisha is registered in the breeder's name and won't allow the chip contact info to be changed. If Meisha ever gets lost (heaven forbid) without her collar, the breeder will be contacted instead of me.

Next time I go to the vet I'm going to find out if I can get a 2nd chip implanted. 

This breeder did all the right things with genetics and testing, etc. but this was the only litter she ever produced. She told me she wakes up in the night terrified that something has happened to "her babies". She also was concerned for Meisha's mother because the father was older and was going to leave her "a widow" soon.

Since our 2 hour phone call when she found out about the chip thing, in which she sobbed and yelled at me, I have moved and changed my phone#. I know I should get back in touch in case of emergency, but I just don't want to deal with her.

Am I wrong on this?


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## spicandspan (Apr 21, 2018)

Meisha said:


> Meisha's breeder made me very uncomfortable. When we went to get her, she was very friendly, and my friend who was her original owner kept in touch a little with pics. But when he died suddenly and Meisha came to me, the breeder changed. First, rather than expressing sympathy for my loss when I let her know, she asked how old he was. I told her he was only 67. She asked how old I was and I said 61. She then said that if she had known how OLD we were, she wouldn't have let him have her. I told her I was going to keep her and she said would allow me to have custody but per the contract, Meisha was HER dog. Ok, I suppose she is within her contract rights, but she knew that I had been as much a part of Meisha's life as my friend had been.
> 
> Then, I contacted the microchip company to add my name and contact information. I assumed she was registered to my friend. Turns out, Meisha is registered in the breeder's name and won't allow the chip contact info to be changed. If Meisha ever gets lost (heaven forbid) without her collar, the breeder will be contacted instead of me.
> 
> ...


Oh wow! You're not wrong at all. That sounds completely off the wall. That's alarming that she won't allow the contact info on the chip to be updated. I hope you can get a second chip implanted.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Meisha said:


> Am I wrong on this?


I don’t think you’re wrong at all. If you’re feeling particularly magnanimous, you could email from a new email reserved only for communication with her, which you can check as (in)frequently as you feel is necessary.


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

Meisha said:


> Meisha's breeder made me very uncomfortable. When we went to get her, she was very friendly, and my friend who was her original owner kept in touch a little with pics. But when he died suddenly and Meisha came to me, the breeder changed. First, rather than expressing sympathy for my loss when I let her know, she asked how old he was. I told her he was only 67. She asked how old I was and I said 61. She then said that if she had known how OLD we were, she wouldn't have let him have her. I told her I was going to keep her and she said would allow me to have custody but per the contract, Meisha was HER dog. Ok, I suppose she is within her contract rights, but she knew that I had been as much a part of Meisha's life as my friend had been.
> 
> Then, I contacted the microchip company to add my name and contact information. I assumed she was registered to my friend. Turns out, Meisha is registered in the breeder's name and won't allow the chip contact info to be changed. If Meisha ever gets lost (heaven forbid) without her collar, the breeder will be contacted instead of me.
> 
> ...


You are not wrong. That is not at all normal behavior. I have heard of contracts in which the breeder requires that they remain on the microchip, but not as the primary contact, and the rest sounds completely off the wall. While 67 may be considered on the older end, 61 most certainly is not, and her response was ridiculous either way. However good her breeding practices may be she might not have the temperament for breeding if the above is how she reacts and communicates with pet owners in regards to her dogs.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

That’s disturbing, @Meisha. I’m sorry. I would consider that a bizarre extreme, which, respectfully, sounds like it’s more about someone’s personal issues than about looking out for their puppies.

Peggy’s breeder is what I would consider the perfect level of engaged. I’ve not heard from her in quite a while, but she follows me on Instagram and can see Peggy’s doing well.

She was appropriately involved while we were struggling during the puppy months, and not only took our concerns seriously but stepped right up and asked for Peggy back if it wasn’t working out, offering a full refund and zero guilt trip. As things got back on track, she appropriately oohed and ahhed over the pictures I sent her. But I was careful not to bombard her, imagining what it would be like to field frequent communications from _every_ puppy owner. Boundaries go both ways.

She shared her vet’s perspective on the best spay age, but didn’t pressure us either way. She has zero involvement in anything like Peggy’s diet, which I would consider a massive overstep. She checked in on height and weight, presumably using that information to inform future breeding plans. 

One thing I really like is that she connected us with other owners, in case we wanted to compare notes, set up play dates or litter reunions, etc.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

My breeder (Donna) and I are friends on Facebook. She frequently comments and likes my posts, as I do with hers. I've messaged her via texts of FB and she's responded to my questions/comments in short order. She has never been intrusive or out of line in any way. In August she usually invites all of her past puppy families to her place for an annual "Poodle Palooza" picnic. This year's event was canceled due to covid. Looking forward to next year's!Thanks to her Kennel's FB page (Wool 'n Wind Standard Poodles), I also keep in touch with a couple of the other folks who got pups from the same litter.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

Meisha said:


> Meisha's breeder made me very uncomfortable. When we went to get her, she was very friendly, and my friend who was her original owner kept in touch a little with pics. But when he died suddenly and Meisha came to me, the breeder changed. First, rather than expressing sympathy for my loss when I let her know, she asked how old he was. I told her he was only 67. She asked how old I was and I said 61. She then said that if she had known how OLD we were, she wouldn't have let him have her. I told her I was going to keep her and she said would allow me to have custody but per the contract, Meisha was HER dog. Ok, I suppose she is within her contract rights, but she knew that I had been as much a part of Meisha's life as my friend had been.
> 
> Then, I contacted the microchip company to add my name and contact information. I assumed she was registered to my friend. Turns out, Meisha is registered in the breeder's name and won't allow the chip contact info to be changed. If Meisha ever gets lost (heaven forbid) without her collar, the breeder will be contacted instead of me.
> 
> ...


Wow, good thing she only had the one litter. Ahem, "a widow"? My daughter thought of the parent dogs as married but she was 5 or so...

In any case, a second microchip would be of limited value. You would never know which chip would end up being scanned. What you may be able to do, depending on the microchip company, is to have your vet either contact them or sign something that states you are the actual owner/caretaker of the dog. That is what a friend did when she got a dog that had been chipped but was not able to show proof of purchase.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I'd be disappointed if my pups breeders weren't interested in updates and hope to stay in touch. My girls breeder and I did, thru the girls lives and after. 

I'd send photos and notes, she'd always respond. She did initiate a few conversations, asking if I'd agree to answer some questions from a prospective new family as a reference for her. 

I'd be put off if contact was mandated.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Meisha said:


> I told her I was going to keep her and she said would allow me to have custody but per the contract, Meisha was HER dog. Ok, I suppose she is within her contract rights





Meisha said:


> Then, I contacted the microchip company to add my name and contact information. I assumed she was registered to my friend. Turns out, Meisha is registered in the breeder's name and won't allow the chip contact info to be changed. If Meisha ever gets lost (heaven forbid) without her collar, the breeder will be contacted instead of me.


I can't find my research on this right now but I've found a few other things that might make a difference.

Was there any verbal or written agreement between you and her original owner? If so, that might help with the chip company. 

Is the breeder saying that they are a co-owner per the contract, or was your friend serving as a guardian home? Or is the breeder saying that your friend signed a contract agreeing to return her to the breeder if unable to care for Meisha? 

For any of those conditions, I'd send a lawyerly signed letter to her asking for a copy of the original signed contract, if you don't happen to have it somehow. If either of the first two are the case, that would make things difficult but not necessarily impossible. The third case could be a bit easier to manage. 

The key with contracts is that they have to be enforceable. That means that it's not enough to agree by signing a document, there have to be enforceable terms, call them penalties, that would be something the law could enforce. 

If you can somehow show ownership, you could contact the company again with the documentation and they should try to help. 

It might be simpler to just have the original chip removed and place a brand new one, if your vet will agree. I'm not quite sure how they're required to handle something like this.


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