# Separation Anxiety



## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

BTW I want to mention that I'm not giving up on this girl, but I feel lost and don't know how I'll make it through this.

I have a Dr. appointment tomorrow afternoon which I know will wear me out, and I dread coming home to a mess in her kennel and having to give her a bath the minute I walk in the door.


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## Poodlelvr (Mar 13, 2010)

I don't really have any good ideas to add to what you've already planned. I can tell you're giving this a lot of thought. A new vet and a behaviorist sound like excellent ways to go. It's hard enough to deal with separation anxiety when you are feeling well. I can only imagine how hard it must be when you are not well. Does Cally cling to your side when you are in the house? If so, you might try going into another room and closing the door, so she gets some alone time even when you are at home. I hope your trip to the doctor this afternoon wasn't too tiring and that Cally didn't create too much work for you to take care of when you got home.


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

first, your vet is wrong - puppies from breeders CAN and DO have separation anxiety if those first critical weeks of socialization are not properly done. that's not saying they were abused, but it is saying they may not have made comfortable with all circumstances which they need to do in order to build their confidence. my jessie is very attached to me, sometimes too much so, however, we have gotten her use to being alone and being comfortable with it. she's never crated and no longer does any form of destruction - that we took under control when she was very young. a behaviorist sounds like the perfect way to go. i also agree that you are definitely on the right path with her. i don't know your pup's age, but just be patient with her and with yourself. sometimes, most times, they pick up on our anxieties and our stress level. be calm when you are around her - for your own sake as well as hers. yout calm demeanor will tell her "everything is ok" more than your words will. good luck and keep us posted.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

sparkyjoe said:


> So, in addition to the thunder shirt, and the Rescue Remedy I am trying to build up her tolerance by stepping out of the house for increasing periods of time. I'm up to about 1-2 minutes without her melting down.


That's exactly what I would be doing. 'Cept for the Bachs. I'd be taking that!


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

sparkyjoe said:


> BTW I want to mention that I'm not giving up on this girl, but I feel lost and don't know how I'll make it through this.
> 
> I have a Dr. appointment tomorrow afternoon which I know will wear me out, and I dread coming home to a mess in her kennel and having to give her a bath the minute I walk in the door.


Sparkyjoe, as just about everyone on this form said to me, the poodle is picking up on the vibes us humans give off. With Sunny, at 3 1/2, the trip here and experience was pretty stressful on him, and consequently, I seemed to be doing everying I could do make it more comfortable for him, since I didn't want him stressed ---- and probably made it worse. Great advise from everyone here -- you might find the Sunny thread about when I got him at the end of August. Now, I am not a pro at this, most of the problems Sunny is still dealing with I probably created in some way, shape or form, but at least I realize it now and try to back out of it. Remain calm -- and over act that things are fine and normal. Sunny still does not like me leaving, since he lived his first 3 + years with lots of other dogs and now is alone when I am gone at work, and drags my clothes to his "perch" on the couch to keep him company, and refuses to go anywhere with a walker, so I have decided he will when he is ready, and try to remain calm. Honestly, the Rescue Remedy and Diffuser are really made for us, and then the poodles can be calm! Good luck!


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

Thanks for the input.

I got confused and my appointment is actually not until tomorrow. Unfortunately I've only got her up to about 3 minutes before she starts whining.

She's 14 months old, and I've only had her for just over 3 weeks.

At her breeder's house she always had other dogs around when the owners went to work but now she's an "only dog" and I'm single, so she is completely alone when I leave. 

As for her picking up feelings. I really am about as calm as I can be when I leave. I've actually been totally ignoring her when I walk out but she still melts down after just a few minutes.

Unfortunately I live in a small-ish condo, and don't really have a dog safe room where I could leave her when I'm gone so I use a wire kennel. She also sleeps in a crate at night. I don't think she minds these spaces because she freely enters them, and even will settle down in her crate at night to sleep if I'm watching TV in the bedroom. As an experiment I tried stepping out of the house when she was loose and I got too cold and had to come back in before she ever whined or barked. I don't know if that means anything.

Her appointment with the new vet is on Wednesday and I meet with the trainer on Thursday for a evaluation. I'll leave her with the trainer for a couple of hours to see how she does. If she's OK, then I can take her there for "day care" or boarding as needed, but if she throws a fit then I'll have to find an alternate because the trainer can't have a dog with severe issues stirring up the other dogs since this is a small, home based operation.

I'm gonna go load up a Kong with some canned food and pop it in the freezer for tomorrow and hope for the best. 

Thanks again for the suggestions and support, it means a lot.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

It sounds as if you are taking a very sensible approach, especially in changing vets and seeking help immediately. 3 minutes when you have only had her 3 weeks is pretty good going - it can take several months for dogs to settle completely in a new home, and to feel confident that the big changes are over. Be patient with her and with yourself - and perhaps buy some nice flowers or wine for any neighbours who might be disturbed, and explain that you are working hard on the barking and whining.


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## littlebluetrike (Dec 19, 2011)

I've got a bit of a milder case. But he is very vocal about it and paces. People really bug me about needing to learn to be without me and be on his own. It isn't that black and white. He's scared being alone, and.he hasn't gotten to his comfort zone yet.


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

Thank you, fjm for the tip about my neighbor. I have discussed it with her & thankfully she is very understanding. She has a small Poodle mix that she got from the humane society that has a mild case of separation anxiety so she can sympathize. Unfortunately my SPoo has a loud voice whereas her small guy's bark is not nearly as loud.


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## lazyman114 (Jan 3, 2012)

I have two ideas for you. You could get a second dog if your circumstances allow. Or you could try a drug like prozac. About 15 years ago I had a mut (1/4 poodle!) Who had some of the worst separation anxiety I've ever heard of. When it was time for everyone to go to school/work, he'd often go upstairs (a no no) and lie down up there. If we tried to move him, he'd bite you. That's not even the worst part. he would hide under the front wheel of our car if he was able to sneak into the garage. He'd also chase his tail compulsively. Anyway, both my parents happen to be psychiatrists, so we got free prozac, which was quite expensive at the time. I don't really remember, but my mom said it significantly curbed the symptoms of his anxiety. 

Anyway, it was funny to tell my friends that I had a dog on prozac. Also, if its expensive or you can't get someone to give you a script for it, you can try online Canadian pharmacies.


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

If it's true Separation Anxiety then another dog won't help. I have thought about another dog but not sure I can do that right now.

I'll discuss drug intervention with the vet tomorrow.


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

Bad day today... Had to drive (literally) to the other side of town on my own because my friend was not able to drive me. Then the Dr. was basically useless & would prefer to send me elsewhere rather than try to help. Then I finally got home, exhausted, to find a nasty mess in Cally's kennel. I totally lost my cool, which of part of the medical thing I've got going on. 

Now I'm completely depressed & debating what's best for this great little dog. I'll see what the vet & trainer say, then try to make up my mind whether she stays with me.

She deserves so much more.


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## dcyk (Nov 30, 2011)

Try this way, as what the "Dog Whisperer" suggested, ask the dog to sit and stay on the bed or his corner, while you walk out of the room out of sight.

Don't let your pup come after you, the dog must willingly walk into the bed to sit there while you walk out of the room.

It works with my toy of 3-4 months, my toy is freely roaming my home as he knows where to do his business in a corner of the house and it currently seems like he doesn't destroy my stuff only his own plastic stuff.


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## Poodlelvr (Mar 13, 2010)

Jill, I so understand your frustration. Cally is a great dog, and you are a great owner--very loving and caring. With your own health a concern here, only you can decide what is best for both of you. I am so hoping this will all work out for you, but I would never criticize you for any decision you make. Sending you hugs, all good thoughts, and prayers.


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

Well, I must not have emotionally damaged Cally too badly because she's currently sitting here alternatively playing with her (2) balls or chewing on her bully stick.

This is after the nap she took on my lap/chest for a couple of hours and then had a good dinner.

I really hope the vet and/or trainer can offer some alternatives.


Here's a pic I took of Cally last night with my cellphone. She was sleeping in her "nest" and I rudely awoke her with the super-bright flash.

ETA: She looks kinda goofy because of the angle of the shot, she's actually put together rather well.


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## MrsKaia (Dec 3, 2011)

Is there a possibility that you can get or have room for a treadmill? That way you can exercise her, and THAN start working on her separation anxiety. The reason I say this is because I have noticed with Cal that working on unwanted behavior is way easier when he's tired. Cal needs a lot of exercise or he will get bored. And when he gets bored, he has his own annoying way of getting my attention  He's had some separation anxiety (not as much as you describe with Cally), which has gotten less by keeping him as excercised and tired as possible, and then start leaving him alone for increasing periods of time. lately we were gone for a little over 2 hours, and he didn't howl or bark once (proud  ). I never make a big thing of leaving the house, and the minute I come back, I ignore him until he settles.


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

MrsKaia said:


> Is there a possibility that you can get or have room for a treadmill? That way you can exercise her, and THAN start working on her separation anxiety. The reason I say this is because I have noticed with Cal that working on unwanted behavior is way easier when he's tired. Cal needs a lot of exercise or he will get bored. And when he gets bored, he has his own annoying way of getting my attention  He's had some separation anxiety (not as much as you describe with Cally), which has gotten less by keeping him as excercised and tired as possible, and then start leaving him alone for increasing periods of time. lately we were gone for a little over 2 hours, and he didn't howl or bark once (proud  ). I never make a big thing of leaving the house, and the minute I come back, I ignore him until he settles.


No real room for a treadmill at this time. I hope maybe someday.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

*sparkyjoe:* I've been following your thread and holding back from posting because I don't have any techniques or advice to offer. But hearing you sound so distraught, I had to chime in. Please don't be so hard on yourself! Dog behavior issues and messes are hard enough to handle when you're feeling 100%, but when you're not feeling well the extra stress and worry can be very overwhelming.

It seems to me you are taking a very kind-hearted and well-reasoned approach to the difficulty Cally is experiencing. I know it must be EXTREMELY trying right now, and it sounds as though your family and friends don't quite get what a_ real_ challenge it is to have a dog with separation anxiety/distress. You are taking the rights steps in conferring with an appropriate vet and behaviorist/trainer. Now all you need to do is take a step toward being good to yourself. I'm hoping things get better for you soon. _Everything will work out,_ one way or another. I'll keep a good thought for you and your spoo. I wish I lived near you, I'd happily take you to your doctor's appointments. Heck, I'm retired and spend half my time doing just that for people, along with my trusty co-pilot, Chagall.:dog: Hang in there. Hugs!:hug:


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I second everything CM says. In the UK there are several organisations that provide help for dog owners who are unwell and unable to walk and exercise their dogs - do you have anything similar near you? Or a dog walker perhaps? I really hope that Cally takes to the trainer you are about to visit, as I think that would ease things enormously for you both. A support network of sympathetic dog owners is hugely helpful at times like this - wish I too was near enough to help with driving and walking!


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

It's almost 4:30am and I'm still awake. Can't sleep thinking about this past day.

I do feel rather isolated & alone in this whole thing. I've been somewhat trapped in my house the last few months; afraid to drive too much for fear of causing a crash or just not feeling well enough to venture out.

I'm hopeful that the vet can give me some options, that appointment is in just a few hours (noon Eastern time, US). I'll let you know how that appointment goes.

I'm a little nervous about the meeting with the trainer. If Cally throws a fit, then I won't be able to board her there & I really like this lady.

I'm fairly sure the messing her kennel is stress related. She started out being fed once a day so I'm going to go back to that to hopefully make potty times more predictable.

I'm exhausted. Gonna try to sleep a few hours before needing to get ready for the vet visit.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Sparkyjoe,

Be assured that you are not alone because others are with you in spirit and here on Poodle Forum to talk to and to offer suggetions. Cally loves her mama and will be fine with what you do. The picture you sent of her in her "nest" is a calm testament to your love for and attention to her care. 

Besides reaching out to a "group" for help with walking, feeding, etc., the group may also offer temporary foster care to give you a break and some time to relax. Maybe Cally's breeder would be able to help.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Cally looks just too cute -- I hope it works out for you both. As we all know, poodles do pick up more of our energy (be it good OR bad) than other dog breeds IMO. Hopefully this will all work out for all concerned.


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

Sparkyjoe, you've got another supporter here in me. I don't have any advice to offer that hasn't already been shared by some very knowledgeable members here, but I wanted you to know that you and Cally are in my thoughts.


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## RileysMommy (Jul 18, 2011)

Riley was a rescue of sorts and we had the SAME problem! Except that he hates his crate. Actually, we dont even have one anymore. When I first got him (he was 4 years old) it was a weekend so we had a few days to get to know each other. I knew he was whining when I left but figured he would calm down in a few minutes. I came home the next morning to a kitchen floor covered with poo/pee almost every morning. After a week, I came home one morning to find a note on my door saying that my dog barked CONSTANTLY...ALL NIGHT while I was at work. I eventually managed to catch my neighbor and talk to him. He said that Riley did not stop barking the whole night...every night! I was so upset. I didnt know what to do. I took Riley to the vet and he suggested giving him toys to keep him busy (kongs or others with treats he had to work to get to) and leaving him with some things of mine. He never touched the toys while I was gone but sometimes would be cuddled with the shirt I left for him. So, at my neighbors suggestion I got a crate. UGH! Baths every morning! After a long night at work its the last thing I wanted to do!
Anyway, sorry this turned out to be so long.......Riley ended up on prozac....things got MUCH better! But, still he would shiver/shake as if he were freezing every time I started to leave. He would still poo in the crate most nights...but the barking stopped. He would be SO upset in the crate (it was the large plastic kind) that he would have it scooted all the way to the other side of the room by the time I got home! Now, Riley takes Clomicalm and we ditched the crate....he stays out in the house and has had NO accidents at all! He doesnt do the shaking anymore either. The only time he has "accidents" are if I'm gone for a long period of time. Like when I went to Dallas for two weeks and he was home with my husband.....three times in the two weeks I was gone my husband came home to find poo on the floor.
So, if all else fails, maybe you can try prozac or clomicalm....it really does help!


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

RileysMommy;

Do you ever see Riley's calm behavior becoming a habit and eventually being able to try him "on good behavior" and off of medication? I'm now trying Inositol powder.


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## RileysMommy (Jul 18, 2011)

petitpie said:


> RileysMommy;
> 
> Do you ever see Riley's calm behavior becoming a habit and eventually being able to try him "on good behavior" and off of medication? I'm now trying Inositol powder.




Yes! I am actually going to take him to the vet soon and see if we can try decreasing it and eventually getting him off of it! And maybe using the rescue remedy occassionally that liljacker mentioned to me before, if we need it. He has been on the clomicalm for about a year now. And the prozac he was on for 3 or 3.5 years before that. I feel more confident about trying to take him off of it now since he's TOTALLY calm with the clomicalm....with the prozac I wouldnt have ever been comfortable trying to take him off of it because he never seemed completely relaxed.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Panic Disorder
People with panic disorder frequently develop panic attacks, often with no warning. The racing heartbeat, chest pressure, sweating, and other physical symptoms can be so intense that they are mistaken for a heart attack. A small double-blind study (21 participants) found that people given 12 g of inositol daily had fewer and less severe panic attacks as compared to the placebo group.27 

A double-blind, crossover study of 20 individuals compared inositol to the antidepressant drug fluvoxamine (Luvox), a medication related to Prozac.28 The results over 4 weeks of treatment showed that the supplement was at least as effective as the drug. 

Health Library - C573 - Inositol - Natural, Alternative - 21766


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## lhaneysPoodles (Dec 17, 2011)

*I understand*

I know what you are going through. I had adopted a Golden Retriever from the pound. She was 5 yrs old and had alot of issues. She would bard all day while we were at work and the kids were at school, she would get up on our beds and poop, she would scratch the door frame etc etc. I was told to crate her. So we did and it almost killed her. She went threw the back of the crate, where the top and bottom come together. She used her teeth to pull at it. When I walked into the house she came running to me covered in blood breathing hard etc. After months of trying everything the vet put her on Clomicalm. The best thing that ever helped. No more crates, pooping, tore up walls nothing. It was a answer to our prayers.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Stupid suggestion maybe, but the understanding neighbor with the slightly anxious poodle X, would the two of you be willing to 'baby sit' each other's dog while either of you have to be gone?
Maybe crate them side by side so they aren't completely alone and that way, whichever one of you needs to be gone, the other watches the dogs. (Does that make any sense?)
Sort of like watching each others' kids. 
That way, you can prove to your neighbor that you are trying to solve the barking issue, the dogs will make a new doggie friend and maybe soothe themselves and you can make a better friend out of your neighbor and reduce the stress all of you are under.
I don't know, it may not work, but what could it hurt to try?

I wish you all the best, for your health and Cally's peace of mind (yours too!)

Take care and hang in there. We are all thinking of you.


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

Thanks for the comments and suggestions, but I'm not sure I'm going to be able to keep Cally much longer, so it might not matter. 

I'm devastated and feel like I'm failing her. It's almost worse than the loss of my last boy to cancer because at least with him I ultimately know that there wasn't anything more I could do for him and I was with him every step of the road.

I'm waiting now to hear what her breeder wants to do.

To clear up any misunderstandings...

- I'm not a new Poodle owner. Cally is my 2nd SPoo; my first recently passed at 11yrs old after loosing his battle with cancer.

- Cally is not a baby puppy. She is 15 months old, and was with her breeder for the first part of her life. There she had a good life with lots of room to run and other dog's to play with. 

- Cally has done the "dog show" thing and actually has one AKC point. She was table trained and would occasionally be left alone when her breeder when in the show ring. (They were within sight of their setup; they DID NOT abandon their dogs completely.)

- Cally was kenneled when her breeder & husband went to work during the day, but she was NOT kept kenneled 24/7/365. She has amazing muscle tone which only comes from exercise.

- While at her breeder's home she had no distinct symptoms of separation anxiety.

- Cally is the most laid back, low energy dog (so perfect for me in so many ways). Some play and chewing seems to do her well, along with a trip to the dog park once a week (or more if possible.)

- As for me, YES, I am currently facing a medical challenge which is likely neurological in nature (or at least presents that way). It causes various symptoms which make life interesting. This is why I *didn't* want a baby puppy and went for an older dog.

I don't know, there's probably more, but I'm too overwhelming sad to think straight right now.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

*sparkyjoe*: For whatever it's worthy, I think you are 1,000% a most poodle-worthy woman. _Everything _you're tried and are yet willing to do, even and up to surrendering/rehoming Cally, is an act of love and goodness and courage, and I salute you for it. 

I am terribly sorry for this unforeseeable heartache! No one of us ever really knows how the story will unfold when we bring a dog into our lives, but I know any dog blessed to live with you--even for a short time, is one lucky pooch. Things will work out for Cally, I know you will see to it. I so hope things will work out with your health as well. As a friend of mine says, "When you have your health, you have options. When you have options, anything is possible." I wish you restored good health, a poodle in your life when the circumstances are right (you can share all our PF ones until then!), and the knowledge deep in your heart that you have done right by Cally, you truly have. All good wishes!

ETA, I really appreciate you posting again. I have been carrying you in my thoughts, as I will continue to do.


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

I also appreciate your taking the time to let us know how you and Cally are doing. It takes a very big heart to part with a dog you love when you think she might have a better home somewhere else. Many blessings to both of you.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I am so very sorry - your love and care for Cally has shone through in every post. I wish it was possible to find a way to make it work for both of you, but if it is not, then choosing the path that is best for Callie is yet more evidence of how much you care. Thinking of you - and hoping things get better for you very soon.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Sparkykjoe: Yes, I knew you had a previous poodle and had a difficult time losing your boy which is totally understandable. I know there are many people on this forum who have adopted older poodles from breeders and it has been easier.....maybe because they joined another poodle already in the household, or had other situations making the acclimation easier. I do know how important it is to provide the best for our dogs, which includes all the stuff like stimulation, healthy lifestyle, attention, and we somehow feel "less than" when we can't do that and it rips us apart - at least it does me. Honestly, I have several times thought that maybe Sunny would be happier in another home, too; that I can't give him what I think he needs to flourish. He is almost 4 and had lots of stimulation (albeit a different kind), lots of dogs (poodles and min pins) and was part of a pack since the day he was born. I could go on, but I totally understand and only you know waht is best. Perhaps the timing just isn't right, too, as it sounds like you have some other issues that you need to focus on, and perhaps the breeder can help you here, too, as long as you both want what is best for Cally at the end of the discussion. Look at us as support and I know there have been times when I was totally at the end of my rope with Sunny and his adoption about 4 months ago, and the PF had some great ideas -- and thought provoking comments -- and sentiments that come from the heart which brought me to tears, too. Hang in there -- do what is best for you, first, because if you don't take care of yourself first you can't take care of anyone else.


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## Ginagbaby1 (Aug 1, 2011)

Sparkyjoe: I just wanted to send a big "hug" your way. I am so very sorry for what you are going through. You have so much love for Cally that you are willing to do whatever it takes to make her happy-Even if that means that you must give her up. She is one lucky poodle to have been able to cross paths with you. I wish you the best with your health and hope that you are able to get better soon.


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

Cally is no longer with me. I've taken her to a lady who also has Poodles, and is a friend of Cally's breeder who lives a few hours from me. 

She will likely work with her for a week or so to see how she does, and from their Cally will most likely go back to her breeder's house.

I don't want to hold out hope that she may show improvement and will come back to me. Hope is too painful.

Its also too painful to read about everyone else's Poodle stories, so I probably won't visit often, if at all, for a long while.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

I am guessing you won't see this then, spakyjoe, but just in case:
It is a honor to know I spent time on the same planet with someone so thoughtful, brave and compassionate such as you.
Heal now, physically and emotionally. I will be thinking of you often.
Blessings to you always.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

Sparkyjoe:
I'm so sorry. You're being incredibly brave and selfless doing what's right for not only Cally, but for you as well. You need to take care of _yourself _and not look at this as a failure, because it's not. 

Sometimes you have to know when to fold and the honorable, brave, responsible person recognizes that and deals with it, as you're doing. A lesser person would continue living in denial, which only hurts all parties involved. You did right by Cally and in fact, you did more than a lot of people would do in a similar situation. You have nothing to feel bad about and you should hold your head high.

Don't give up the fight! I predict you'll have another poodle in the future. Just don't give up and lean on us if you need to talk or vent. 

Stay safe.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

So glad you let us know about Cally. It takes a special person to put her dog first and suffer the pain of letting it go. I would never call that a failure. Cally was just not the dog for you at this time, but that does not mean there is not a dog for you ! Look into gettin a older dog! Maybe a mpoo or toy. They are just as wonderful and size does matter when you don't have alot of space and don't feel well . I still think a shih tuz would be a perfect match. I have two and they are so sweet, don't need a lot of exercise ect. I hope you come back with a new story and we can all sing with you !


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