# Another Importing Question



## Deegb (10 mo ago)

Hi .I am fairly new to PF and have been looking around for several months.I am currently in search of a moyen poodle and have gotten where I am now seriously considering importing.I came across the helpful breeder list and foreign poodle club info The problem I am having is how can I be sure any of the overseas breeders I have contacted are reputable?Is there anyone on the forum that could recommend any breeders? One of the German breeders I have contacted and have yet to hear back from is Herbordsburg. I hope you don’t mind me reaching out.Thanks for any help.


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## nautracer (8 mo ago)

wow, Deegb. welcome to the Forum. so we are both looking at the Moyen. just for laughs maybe if you bought a dam or stud we could start our own little family....lol.... have friends in Germany. it's a far fetched Idea unless we lived close to each other. A breeder Noir name came out,,,but I had no call back from her.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

nautracer said:


> ,but I had no call back from her.


It's not unusual for it to take time, sometimes it can be weeks. Some breeders prefer calls, some email, some text. If one doesn't work, try another. Offer a brief intro about yourselves, what you like about poodles, what you like about their breeding program and their poodles, and ask when would convenient for them to spend a bit of time with you to learn about each other. 

The thing is that breeding is not a livelihood for the quality, conscientious breeders that are referred to, it's a passion for the breed, more like a calling. 

They often have families, 9-5 jobs for their actual livelihood, and different ways of handling inquiries. 

Members have reported everything from weekly communications to almost total radio silence after the getting to know one another and coming to agreement communications until the call comes that their pup is waiting.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Please don't make the mistake of thinking breeding good Poodles is just slapping a couple of them together. It is also _never_ a business venture. Well, maybe if you happen onto a special and get to add on as an owner, then provide thousands upon thousands of dollars to privately jet your special and his / her handler and team all around the country (or countries) to build the Poodle's career, it feels like business. Whether it is or not is another question, and I would not dare approach trying to answer that. Most, including specials, do not fall into such rarefied circumstances.

Dog shows, apart from the AKC National (used to be called the Eukanuba), do not provide monetary prizes, and stud fees or puppy prices won't repay all the outlay, so one can expect huge monetary drains for all this. It ain't a bizness.

It's a calling, and those who want to breed, and well (it matters; just read here), best have resources readily available, not only beforehand to prove their prospects, but afterwards to take all required steps to complete proofing for breeding, and also to fully support bred dogs and bitches. Even if finished and not further campaigned, they need to be fully tested and cared for, for life. Whether bred or not, helpful to test if from good lines, just those bred of course need extra special care, testing, and support. Before, during, and after their full conformation careers.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Deegb said:


> Hi .I am fairly new to PF and have been looking around for several months.I am currently in search of a moyen poodle and have gotten where I am now seriously considering importing.I came across the helpful breeder list and foreign poodle club info The problem I am having is how can I be sure any of the overseas breeders I have contacted are reputable?Is there anyone on the forum that could recommend any breeders? One of the German breeders I have contacted and have yet to hear back from is Herbordsburg. I hope you don’t mind me reaching out.Thanks for any help.


Since the AKC does not recognize moyen as a poodle size, ask for an oversize miniature or a very small standard poodle. The heights used in the US to determine the variety are: toy - up to 10 inches, miniature - over 10 inches and under 15 inches, standard - over 15 inches. That said, a poodle who is 16 or even 17 inches but whose parents are miniature poodles is still considered a miniature. Such a dog could not be shown as a miniature and probably should not be bred. The same reasoning applies to a poodle who is 11 or 12 inches but whose parents are toy poodles. 

Crosses between the poodle varieties should be avoided. Poodle varieties have been stable for many years and genetic issues are usually specific to the variety.

Finally, there are plenty of oversize miniatures - no need to import one!


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I think nautracer's response was more jest with a tinge of earnest due to the rather specific nature of their size request.
They'd settled on the medium size due to perceptions but are learning it's not that simple. They've had and loved poodles in the past but have concluded that a 30lb poodle is their perfect size. In other threads they have mentioned up to 25lb and 30lb.

Unfortunately, true mediums from conscientious breeders are quite rare in the US. Additionally, the 30lb weight upper limit isn't really small standard territory and definitely isn't miniature. 

We know that predicting adult size isn't precise. Even oversize miniatures are unlikely to hit 30lbs and the few true medium breeders that list height and weight of their dogs on their sites are in line with the oversize miniatures, a bit shy of that 30lb with high teens to mid 20's the most typical.


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## Deegb (10 mo ago)

Yes.That’s what I am finding-doodle breeders saying that have moyens, lots of inter variety pairings that sound horrifying and regular standard poodles being touted as “moyen”


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Deegb said:


> Yes.That’s what I am finding-doodle breeders saying that have moyens, lots of inter variety pairings that sound horrifying and regular standard poodles being touted as “moyen”


Our girl was advertised as a small standard, when in fact she’s just a plain old wonderful standard.  I think anyone wanting a smaller-than-standard poodle should limit their search to minis, unless they’re okay with the risk that their puppy turns out larger than expected. Peggy had a significant vertical growth spurt around 18 months.


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## Deegb (10 mo ago)

That’s why the thought of a moyen from European lines seems so appealing.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Deegb said:


> That’s why the thought of a moyen from European lines seems so appealing.


Have you been in touch with Karbit?


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Deegb said:


> Hi .I am fairly new to PF and have been looking around for several months.I am currently in search of a moyen poodle and have gotten where I am now seriously considering importing.I came across the helpful breeder list and foreign poodle club info The problem I am having is how can I be sure any of the overseas breeders I have contacted are reputable?Is there anyone on the forum that could recommend any breeders? One of the German breeders I have contacted and have yet to hear back from is Herbordsburg. I hope you don’t mind me reaching out.Thanks for any help.


We have a few members overseas and if they see your post may be able to offer some help with breeders in their neck of the world. Search for Curlfloofan's threads and you'll find some that talk about their breeder search.

The various clubs on the breeder list are legit to my best knowledge. Another way to search breeders is to start at the top and search down from the registry, FCI, to find kennel clubs thru their database.
FCI members and contract partners

You can also search online for "Poodle Club of *___*" and review what comes up. The specific breed clubs are generally a good breeder resource.

I searched Poodle Club of Germany and got these hits for starters.
Poodle Clubs | The Poodle Network
William Penn Poodle Club
They have a list on their site
and
The VDH » VDH.de

You may have already seen nautracer's recent threads on their medium poodle search but jic, I'll link them here. It's covered many things to know about looking for a conscientious medium poodle breeder in the US.

The perceived size of the medium variety is fairly popular but the perception butts heads with the reality of why you'll find very, very few quality, conscientious breeders putting in the effort to breed dogs in a size that has no realistic avenue to compete in, to prove their dogs. I would be happily surprised to learn that there might even be 10, tho I doubt even that many. Health testing is a second factor.

(8) hello Poodle gang! | Poodle Forum

this thread was started last year by another member but nautracer joined in so it's been updated.

(8) finding a reputable breeder of Moyen poodles | Poodle Forum


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

If I were truly interested in traveling to Europe and purchasing or importing an FCI Medium Poodle, I might reach out not only to parent clubs in countries that recognize the size, but maybe also try to get referred to a US-based professional handler who works internationally, and ask for (paid) pro consultation and if they have time, search assistance on the Continent, to locate candidates where the breeder is reputable and also willing to send one of their dogs overseas as a pet. Imho, chances are, this may be more likely to be an adult dog. Great breeders who export seem to me maybe more likely to be working with breeders in the other country who have something to improve and/or continue in their line and legacy. It seems less a pet venue to me, not that I haven't fanticized about it with a different breed myself 😊.

Maybe good to go to an FCI country in Europe for a year and travel to conformation shows to meet breeders in person. Could be fun and instructive.

Imho, the U.S. may be a bit of a harder sell for great overseas breeders, as some may have a more difficult time rescuing back one of their dogs if needed, although the network is there. (I'm not part of it; it's logical.) This country's pet rehome / dump / greed breed rate must surely cause some in other countries to catch their breaths.


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## Deegb (10 mo ago)

Thank you all for the helpful feedback. I will definitely look into all your suggestions.


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