# Inky Black standard poodles



## desertreef

No one wants to touch this one... yet at least.

Best to talk to people who actually have a deep inky older black poodle as they really know.

My Czech import, Kia, is such a black. I am hoping her only black daughter will stay just as inky, with no grizzling. (Cloe just turned 2 so that can still change but so far I'm very pleased.)

Here is a picture I just took of Kia with her 'one day old' puppies.


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## Fluffyspoos

Looking for another poodle there, Roxy? ;D I'm sure we'll all approve of this decision.


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## KPoos

I agree roxy needs her own poodle.


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## roxy25

desertreef said:


> No one wants to touch this one... yet at least.
> 
> Best to talk to people who actually have a deep inky older black poodle as they really know.
> 
> My Czech import, Kia, is such a black. I am hoping her only black daughter will stay just as inky, with no grizzling. (Cloe just turned 2 so that can still change but so far I'm very pleased.)
> 
> Here is a picture I just took of Kia with her 'one day old' puppies.


That is the thing when I go to dog shows. I don't know if they will stay black or not most of the dogs out are not veterans. Just younger dogs. I heard they can grizzle or fade out after 2 yrs like you said.

I have found some nice looking dogs I would consider wanting a puppy put of but I guess I need to start asking about if they faded or not.


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## KPoos

Just know when you do, you might get people balking on dealing with you. Not everyone wants to talk about their dog's fading colors and it's a very touchy issue with some breeders. Trust me when I say I know first hand.


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## thestars

roxy25 said:


> What lines or kennels that have nice inky black dogs that do not fade ?


Have you looked at Tiara Standards in La Jolla, California. They've been breeding blacks for along time. http://www.tiarapoodles.com/


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## roxy25

Fluffyspoos said:


> Looking for another poodle there, Roxy? ;D I'm sure we'll all approve of this decision.


Probably not now just want to gain Knowledge for future references.

O DReef I also notice the imports are inky blacks and stay. So I was looking at the huffish line. but I have heard some bad things about some offsprings temperaments lately, I am not sure if its even from that line but so far my findings is leading towards it or should I say one particular dog out of that line. Not really sure yet still looking into it. There are so many angles to look at when people tell you things about these dogs. ( well thats how i look at it anyways lol)


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## wishpoo

Oh LOL Desert did guess it right LOL !!!! I wrote and erased posts couple of times trying to see who is going to go first LMAO 

I know who my favorite breeders are - but they might not be favorite to somebody else and do not want to make a "miss-match" and be responsible :fish:

Yes Desert- I already complemented your Czech dog to other members - I LOVE her in many ways !!! Just a beautiful dog !!! (in my opinion ...) I know that she is not a "pretty-pretty", but I like seriousness in black dogs and also that she is a more "compact" than what is usual here in the USA (at least on the photo she looks like nice 22 inch perhaps ???) Maybe I am wrong - I still find her very nice ...


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## wishpoo

I think that with a right stud she definitely would produce some show pups !!!


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## cbrand

I think Black breeders are pretty straight forward about whether or not their dogs are good Blacks. Most will tell you without blinking an eye that, "Oh ya, he was dyed for the ring."

The Swedish imports in this country and their offspring tend to have very good black color.

These guys all have stud dogs who are good inky Blacks

Grandeur Kennels 
http://www.grandeurs.net
CH Escorts Yannick Le Noir
They have puppies (PM me before you talk to her).

Safari 
http://my.ilstu.edu/~cahuff/studs.html
CH. JOUET SECOND 2 NONE 
I saw his daughter showing at our Specialty and she was nice.

Robinsong Poodles
CH Highspirits Irrefutable 
Joan Harrigan
207.389.2866

Folks who have puppies that may stay a good black:
Cascade Poodles 
http://www.cascadestandardpoodles.com/
They have a litter on the ground

Others maybe to talk to:
http://www.nightsechopoodles.com/index.html


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## desertreef

Thanks CBrand to the list of breeders. I'll be on the lookout myself for Kia's daughter Cleo ( I wrote Cloe earlier... she's been spayed.)


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## KPoos

Maybe in the circles you frequent but when you are a pet owner looking for another pet and you ask that question, I've yet to get a straight answer.


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## frostfirestandards

roxy25 said:


> Probably not now just want to gain Knowledge for future references.
> 
> O DReef I also notice the imports are inky blacks and stay. So I was looking at the huffish line. *but I have heard some bad things about some offsprings temperaments lately, *I am not sure if its even from that line but so far my findings is leading towards it or should I say one particular dog out of that line. Not really sure yet still looking into it. There are so many angles to look at when people tell you things about these dogs. ( well thats how i look at it anyways lol)


HA HA HA funny you should mention that.... 
Willow has some Huffish on her dad's side- shes nuts! 
not in a "im going to bite you and pee myself" sort of way- just very hyper and has that "im better than the rest of this crap- so look at me" attitude. 

I was talking to the breeder the other day, and she said Willow's sister is affectionately known as "Demon Seed" LOL and insists its the european lines

Willow is alot of dog in a small package (shes somewhere between 18-20 ish inches, I have to measure her) 
and is my only dog that can fetch. She will do well in performance I think


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## roxy25

frostfirestandards said:


> HA HA HA funny you should mention that....
> Willow has some Huffish on her dad's side- shes nuts!
> not in a "im going to bite you and pee myself" sort of way- just very hyper and has that "im better than the rest of this crap- so look at me" attitude.
> 
> I was talking to the breeder the other day, and she said Willow's sister is affectionately known as "Demon Seed" LOL and insists its the european lines
> Willow is alot of dog in a small package (shes somewhere between 18-20 ish inches, I have to measure her)
> and is my only dog that can fetch. She will do well in performance I think


LOL see I keep getting stuff like this hahaha.


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## wishpoo

I would stay away from some particular Swedish imports - some are great - some are just plain crazy !!!!!!

I would go to Avion for a puppy any day , though !!!!!


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## roxy25

wishpoo said:


> I would go to Avion for a puppy any day , though !!!!!


Yeah I really like her dogs She lives only like 30 mins away.


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## frostfirestandards

roxy25 said:


> LOL see I keep getting stuff like this hahaha.


In Willow's case, she needs a firm, but kind owner...kind of like a bulldog. I wouldn't reccomend her (and dogs like her) for first time owners, people who want a quiet couch potato dog and things like that. I would reccomend her for performance/compitition homes, and very active homes (people who like to hike and stuff like that)


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## roxy25

frostfirestandards said:


> In Willow's case, she needs a firm, but kind owner...kind of like a bulldog. I wouldn't reccomend her (and dogs like her) for first time owners, people who want a quiet couch potato dog and things like that. I would reccomend her for performance/compitition homes, and very active homes (people who like to hike and stuff like that)


Yes this is how i feel when people talk about these dogs, that they are more like a dominate stubborn breed that needs firm handling and activity.

I think you nailed it


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## jak

I know, Am. & Can Ch Alias Just Give Me That Wink
produces bad blacks
http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/profile.asp?dog=15198
this is his son who has to be dyed with two full bottles!!!
There are some others I know too, although, he does produce nice dogs.


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## wishpoo

LMAO Jack - you are "crazy" ound: 

Easy for you to comment "Down Under" LOL when nobody is "watching" ; ))


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## jak

wishpoo said:


> LMAO Jack - you are "crazy" ound:
> 
> Easy for you to comment "Down Under" LOL when nobody is "watching" ; ))


Shhh, hehehe :wacko:


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## *skye*

Desertreef, that dog is beautiful! Blacks are my favorite!


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## bigredpoodle

*skye* said:


> Desertreef, that dog is beautiful! Blacks are my favorite!


She breeds nice dogs for sure !


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## desertreef

Oh, I could have mentioned... I co-own a grand daughter of Justin's and she is very black, no grizzling either. (I had heard he wasn't 'all that black' himself and wondered if he had gone blue but was told no. So makes sense he's had some 'bad black' get. Don't you just hate that term?)

Lailah, Empyrean Desert Reef Lailahmae, is out of Ch Jaset's Cloak N Dagger (last I saw was good black and he's up in age) and La Marka Baroque XFile-Scully (also last I saw was very black)


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## desertreef

This was her after turning 3 years old. Really pretty and petite girl.


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## cbrand

jak said:


> I know, Am. & Can Ch Alias Just Give Me That Wink
> produces bad blacks
> http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/profile.asp?dog=15198
> this is his son who has to be dyed with two full bottles!!!
> There are some others I know too, although, he does produce nice dogs.


Justin is 1st cousin to my Sabrina. I would say that the line does not produce good blacks. Very pretty and stylish dogs though.

Breeding is all a balancing act. Is color more important that movement? Is good coat more important than a pretty head? I think you have to decide what is most important to you and move forward with that.


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## bigredpoodle

I totally agree Cbrand. Health Temperment conformation then color. This is my feeling.. 
And they do not move with their head  Correct conformation creates a balance dog and this will bypass a head and should bypass color anyday...


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## cbrand

bigredpoodle said:


> And they do not move with their head


True, but I will admit to the fact that I hate an ugly head on a poodle.


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## bigredpoodle

A light eye is my pet peeve....


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## cbrand

bigredpoodle said:


> A light eye is my pet peeve....


Shudder.... Add that one to the list too.


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## roxy25

desertreef said:


> Oh, I could have mentioned... I co-own a grand daughter of Justin's and she is very black, no grizzling either. (I had heard he wasn't 'all that black' himself and wondered if he had gone blue but was told no. So makes sense he's had some 'bad black' get. Don't you just hate that term?)
> 
> Lailah, Empyrean Desert Reef Lailahmae, is out of Ch Jaset's Cloak N Dagger (last I saw was good black and he's up in age) and La Marka Baroque XFile-Scully (also last I saw was very black)



I was going to ask Chris about her dog also. That is good to know some of her dogs and the dogs behind them produce inky blacks.


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## roxy25

desertreef said:


> This was her after turning 3 years old. Really pretty and petite girl.


She looks good , the coat looks very nice and black 



> Breeding is all a balancing act. Is color more important that movement? Is good coat more important than a pretty head? I think you have to decide what is most important to you and move forward with that.


Well right now finding dogs that produce nice black or breeders with nice blacks is important to me right now. Of course I would never buy a dog that was inky black but looked like crap lol. I am so picky there is a certain look I like. I am mad because at Enzo's first show there was this dog there that was in the 12-18month class he was so STUNNING. But I don't know who owns him. I never buy catalogs but I will ask my friend if he knows the dogs breeder since I think he handled him.


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## cbrand

roxy25 said:


> Well right now finding dogs that produce nice black or breeders with nice blacks is important to me right now. Of course I would never buy a dog that was inky black but looked like crap lol. I am so picky there is a certain look like. I am mad because at Enzo's first show there was this dog there that was in the 12-18month class he was so STUNNING. But I don't know who owns him. I never buy catalogs but I will ask my friend if he knows the dogs breeder since I think he handled him.


You can look him up online. When and where was the show? Did he win?


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## roxy25

cbrand said:


> You can look him up online. When and where was the show? Did he win?


It was in the city of industry ( the day enzo did not get to go in the ring) CA April 18th I believe. I tried finding him no luck . It was on jack bradshaw months ago but I was not thinking about the dog back then. 

I am not sure if he won.


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## cbrand

roxy25 said:


> It was in the city of industry ( the day enzo did not get to go in the ring) CA April 18th I believe. I tried finding him no luck . It was on jack bradshaw months ago but I was not thinking about the dog back then.
> 
> I am not sure if he won.



Onofrio has show information back that far but I can't find a CA dog show for that date. Was this an AKC show?

Also.... what type do you like?


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## bigredpoodle

roxy25 said:


> It was in the city of industry ( the day enzo did not get to go in the ring) CA April 18th I believe. I tried finding him no luck . It was on jack bradshaw months ago but I was not thinking about the dog back then.
> 
> I am not sure if he won.


Wow that makes it tough. What class was he in ? If it was a large show that will be the Key... Do the online listings give color?


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## roxy25

cbrand said:


> Onofrio has show information back that far but I can't find a CA dog show for that date. Was this an AKC show?
> 
> Also.... what type do you like?


Yeah I check on Onofrio.

I like a dog to have a little more bone one them but not too much in where the bitches look like males. I do like refine dogs also but not so refine in where a dog looks like a bitch. LOL so I guess medium bone ?
Let me get some pictures of what i like or list of names, I marked some stud dogs in last years poodle Variety.

brb


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## jester's mom

cbrand said:


> Justin is 1st cousin to my Sabrina. I would say that the line does not produce good blacks. Very pretty and stylish dogs though.
> 
> Breeding is all a balancing act. Is color more important that movement? Is good coat more important than a pretty head? I think you have to decide what is most important to you and move forward with that.


I totally agree with you on this. There is no such thing as the "perfect" dog and you must decide what you want in your dogs. 

In MY HUMBLE OPINION ONLY, temperament, conformation and health should be paramount over everything else. I can deal with a non-perfect color (although I would love it!), I can't deal with a bad temperament AT ALL. If I had the choice of a poodle with a color that wasn't "the best" but proper, poodle temperament over a poodle with a sharp/shy/bad temperament but exquisite color, I'd take the former without bating an eyelash. To me, color should never out way temperament, health and form of the breed. It should only compliment it when it can be gotten in one package. But, that is my opinion ONLY. By all means, color should be thought of and worked for and I would love to own one with superb color, exc. form/temperament/health, gorgeous face, great hair.....but, since no dog is 100% perfect, we all need to work towards the best in what we are looking for. When I think "poodle", my mind immediately thinks of a breed with a certain temperament, a certain body form and bred for a certain purpose in life.... color is never an item that first comes to mind when I think of a poodle. 

I would have to say, what spoospirit and I are striving for when we breed is gorgeous faces, lovely movement, proper coat texture... a good pleasing overall look when you first look at one of our poodles. AND TOPMOST, great temperaments... outgoing yet sensitive. All our spoos go to the nursing homes so that temperament will always be strived for. 

As far as eye color.. I do hate light eyes. It does not enhance the look of the poodle face at all and that is one thing we hope to try to breed away from.


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## bigredpoodle

Very well said Jesters Mom !


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## roxy25

ok The dog I thought was the pup I seen at the show is Ch.Empyrean lonely hunter. But Karen told me how old he was so it was not him.

Here are some dogs I like. ( again this is just based on a picture) I would have to see if they look nice in person to confirm what I see.

Ch.Empyrean lonely hunter
Ch. Jaset's cloat n Dagger
ch. tees exception to the rule
Am. Can Grand Ch. Classique Scaramouche
Am/MBIS, MRBIS Can Ch Vetset Highfalutin' Hallmark 
BPIS Can Ch Blue Skies Espree Vetset Regan 










There are a few dogs from Tango , and Larkspur I like as well. 
I also tend to like Safari dogs which I have seen in person.


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## jak

roxy25 said:


> ok The dog I thought was the pup I seen at the show is Ch.Empyrean lonely hunter. But Karen told me how old he was so it was not him.
> 
> Here are some dogs I like. ( again this is just based on a picture) I would have to see if they look nice in person to confirm what I see.
> 
> Ch.Empyrean lonely hunter
> Ch. Jaset's cloat n Dagger
> ch. tees exception to the rule
> Am. Can Grand Ch. Classique Scaramouche
> Am/MBIS, MRBIS Can Ch Vetset Highfalutin' Hallmark
> BPIS Can Ch Blue Skies Espree Vetset Regan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are a few dogs from Tango , and Larkspur I like as well.
> I also tend to like Safari dogs which I have seen in person.



Ooh, pretty dog

Funnily enough, a friend just told me to check out Am. Can Grand Ch. Classique Scaramouche

He looks like such a lovely dog.

Also, just wondering, the Grand Ch in his name, is that Canadian Grand Champion?

If so, how does a dog get that title?


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## bigredpoodle

*Ch.Empyrean lonely hunter *I love this dog as well He is stunning !


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## poodleholic

Aris Standard Poodles are inky black, stay that way, and are beautiful hair factories! LOL I know because I have one! 

Aris Total Eclipse of My Heart, or Lucia! 
(Sorry, my mug is in this pic, too)


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## bigredpoodle

Wow beautiful dog !


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## Dogsinstyle

"Aris Standard Poodles are inky black, stay that way, and are beautiful hair factories! LOL I know because I have one! "

Good choice! Tell Beth I said hi!
Carole


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## gwtwmum2

From a pet buyer's mistake - I'd be VERY clear on Inky black. I asked breeders if their dogs were black - and in Wrigley's case was told yes. Well, I'm sure that is what he would be considered but he isn't even two yet and he is a horrible black. He has so many white hairs on his muzzle that the vet made the comment last check up - "Oh look, he is showing his age". I said - "Wait, he isn't even two" and then he reconsidered and agreed with me that he just has bad coloring. It is fine in that Wriggs is our pet and never going to be shown, but I will admit that when I'm trying to pretty him up, I've had thoughts of "I wonder how hard it would be to dye him..." not that I will - but looking at some of these INKY blacks makes me wish Wriggs had stayed nice in color. However, he has a great personality and for us, that was the important thing - I know I could trust him with all kinds of people (kids, adults) and he loves everybody.


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## KPoos

Often times you will find that as a pet buyer, you wanting the perfect dog in looks "shouldn't" matter. I want a dog that looks like a show dog and is my pet and if that's what I want, why can't I have it you know?


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## gwtwmum2

I agree - I'm a pet buyer but I'm taking the time to find a reputable breeder for various reasons - health, temperment AND a pretty representation of the breed.


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## Cdnjennga

jak said:


> Also, just wondering, the Grand Ch in his name, is that Canadian Grand Champion?
> 
> If so, how does a dog get that title?


I think grand champion is through UKC. You can be a champion or a grand champion, which is harder to achieve.


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## poodleholic

Dogsinstyle said:


> "Aris Standard Poodles are inky black, stay that way, and are beautiful hair factories! LOL I know because I have one! "
> 
> Good choice! Tell Beth I said hi!
> Carole


Hi Carole! 

Good choice is right (still pinching myself to make sure I'm not dreaming)! Lucia is one exquisite little Poodle girl! LOL
Lesly


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## Harley_chik

Cdnjennga said:


> I think grand champion is through UKC. You can be a champion or a grand champion, which is harder to achieve.


They were talking about the AKC starting a Grand CH title, on another forum. I don't think it's in practice yet though.


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## roxy25

Harley_chik said:


> They were talking about the AKC starting a Grand CH title, on another forum. I don't think it's in practice yet though.


Yeah GR is UKC u have to win the champion class 3 times I believe to get a GR.


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## bigredpoodle

You are correct harley chick . I did read about that on AKC site. 
The UKC Grand is much harder to get as you have to have competition.


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## jak

K,

I thought it was UKC, but wasn't sure as it didn't say it there.

We have Grand Champion here, I think it is really good as it distinguishes the good from the great.

You have to win 3 All Breed Best In Shows, and get 50 challenge certificates, which you get for Best of Breed


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