# Need advice for puppy crying at night



## PoodleRick

genuineljl said:


> Puppy has only been with us for 3 nights. I've received conflicting advice outside of this forum, but would love any additional thoughts/advice from anyone reading this.
> 
> *1st night* - spent in her enclosed crate in a separate room. She cried for about 15 minutes and went to sleep. I got up in the middle of the night to have her go to her piddle pad, but then she thought it was playtime (but did go to the bathroom). She cried for about 10 minutes after I put her back in her crate but then slept until morning.
> 
> *2nd night* - same thing (enclosed crate), but when I got up in the middle of the night to have her go to her piddle pad (and again she thought it was playtime), she again cried when I left the room (for quite a while). I decided to bring her into my bedroom (in her enclosed crate) and she did great for the rest of the night. I read that some people do this with good result.
> 
> Received advice from the breeder not to keep her enclosed in the crate, and instead leave her in her pen in a separate room with access to her piddle pads. The breeder said that this is the setup that they had before the puppy came to me (so the puppy is used to this already). So you know, my plan is to keep her in the pen until she is completely potty-trained. The plan is also to keep her trained to use the piddle pads (always). So this is why the breeder is recommending this setup. Also, the advice given for not doing the enclosed crate is that the dog is then training me to get up in the middle of the night to have her go to the bathroom, which isn't necessary, when my plan is to train her to be piddle-pad trained always.
> 
> *3rd night*- *followed the advice, put her in her pen with access to her piddle pads and she cried more than ever on the 3rd night. Maybe she has her days and nights confused or maybe she didn't tire herself out enough this day. She cried on and off from 11:30pm until 2:15am (very loudly and about 15 minutes on/15 minutes off), and then she was up for the day at 6am. She used her piddle pads - no accidents, but the crying kept me up all of that time. *
> 
> I don't really want to move her pen to our bedroom, but I suspect this may be the advice from the forum??? Or do you think I should do like night #2 and just put her in her enclosed crate next to my bed, and somehow deal with her thinking it's playtime and creating a habit of me getting up with her in the middle of the night always. Maybe all of the crying on night #3 was a fluke and I need to stick with what she's used to and be consistent (i know being consistent is really important, but I was trying to figure out also what would relieve her anxiety). So, I'm trying to figure out a good system for night #4 and then always for going forward.


I think more than anything else dogs just want to be with us. So maybe being in a separate room is the problem. She probably just came from being with her Mom and all her siblings to being along at night. Pretty daunting for a pup. So I'd have her in her crate in my bedroom next to me. And yeah, after sleeping a few hours and peeing outside, it's always play time. At least it is for me.  Anyway I'd go back to what works for you and train her through repetition that's it's not playtime in the middle of the night then try to stretch out the time to the midnight peeing until you can get her to go through the night.

Rick


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## Rachel76

Hi, it's been a long time since I've had a puppy and I think you were on the right track having her kennel in your bedroom with you. I think even if the puppy can't see you she can hear and smell you and know she's not alone. As for the pen, was she in a pen alone at the breeders or were her littermates also in the pen with her? If she's not used to being in a pen alone she may feel cozier in her crate. 

Hope this helps somewhat. IMO PoodleRick knows what he's doing and has good advice for you and your puppy.


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## PoodleRick

Rachel76 said:


> Hi, it's been a long time since I've had a puppy and I think you were on the right track having her kennel in your bedroom with you. I think even if the puppy can't see you she can hear and smell you and know she's not alone. As for the pen, was she in a pen alone at the breeders or were her littermates also in the pen with her? If she's not used to being in a pen alone she may feel cozier in her crate.
> 
> Hope this helps somewhat. *IMO PoodleRick knows what he's doing and has good advice for you and your puppy*.


Thanks, BTW I have some Florida property you might be interested in. It's not swampy at all. 
I don't have any dog training in my background. I just kinda "get" them. I try to see the things we do from their point of view, which according to my wife is easy for me since I'm just like a big puppy anyway.

Rick


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## Rachel76

*PoodleRick* gotta say no thanks to your 'non swampy Florida property'  I'm an expat from the southwest. Besides I find Germany very dog friendly.


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## Tiny Poodles

I agree with giving a dog that you re trying o pd train long term access to the pad at will, but it sounds like she got comfort from the crate, so why not put the crate, with the door open, inside the pen, so that she can sleep in the crate, but get to the pad whenever she likes.


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## patk

you could try a larger crate in your bedroom with enough room for the pup at one end and the pad at the other. my dog came to me at five months of age - years ago - and howled like a banshee the first night. the next night i put his crate in my bedroom and there was not one peep.


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## irmashanahan

I housebreak new puppies by placing them in a cardboard box directly next to my side of the bed. The box is large enough for the puppy to turn around, and lie down, and tall enough that the puppy can't crawl out of it. It is lined in newspaper. At bedtime, the puppy is pottied outside, then placed in the box next to my side of the bed. Any attempt to play, etc. is ignored. but if the puppy whines, I can put my hand over the side so he knows he's not alone. When the puppy wakes in the middle of the night and wiggles around, he is picked up, leashed, and carried outside to potty, then returned back to the box - with absolutely no conversation or play time. 

It does not take them long to get the message, and it's been a very successful method for me. 

Hope this helps.


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## genuineljl

Wow, thanks SO much to everyone!!! She only had one litter mate and was separated from him and her mom a few weeks ago at the breeders house (in prep for coming to my house). She's almost 14 weeks now. At what point should I expect her to go all night without needing to go to the bathroom during the night? 
I think I'll get another pen and set it up in my bedroom. I'll put the crate with crate door open inside the pen, and piddle pad right next to the crate inside the pen. This way she's close to my bed, is using her crate to sleep in, and still has access to piddle pads whenever she wants. I'll try this tonight and hope for the best. Thanks again for all of your input! Very much appreciated!!!
Leslie



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## PoodleRick

genuineljl said:


> Wow, thanks SO much to everyone!!! She only had one litter mate and was separated from him and her mom a few weeks ago at the breeders house (in prep for coming to my house). *She's almost 14 weeks now. At what point should I expect her to go all night without needing to go to the bathroom during the night? *
> I think I'll get another pen and set it up in my bedroom. I'll put the crate with crate door open inside the pen, and piddle pad right next to the crate inside the pen. This way she's close to my bed, is using her crate to sleep in, and still has access to piddle pads whenever she wants. I'll try this tonight and hope for the best. Thanks again for all of your input! Very much appreciated!!!
> Leslie
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I see you have a Toy Poodle. I think they need to go more often than the bigger ones. I got Penny, my Spoo pup at 9 weeks. She has made it through the night from the very first night.

Rick


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## genuineljl

Hi Rick. Sorry about that. She is a toy poodle, almost 4 pounds, 13 weeks old.


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## PoodleRick

genuineljl said:


> Hi Rick. Sorry about that. She is a toy poodle, almost 4 pounds, 13 weeks old.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Oh, no problem. I just looked in the panel under your avatar to see what you have.

Rick


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## hopetocurl

I read somewhere that you need to take them out every 2 hours T first. For at least 3 days. Then, move to every 2.5 hours for 3 days, then 3 hours for 3 days, etc. you basically have to give experience feeling and holding their bladder.


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## Tiny Poodles

Gee, I can tell you that with pad trained adults, they rarely ever get up during the night to use the pad (usually only if there is a poop issue going on), but I am really not sure at what age that started, because they always have the pad if they want it. 
But didn't you say that you plan to keep her pad trained long term? If so, then why are you even thinking about that?


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## lily cd re

My dogs are both big, so I can't help you out about when to expect a tpoo to make it through the night other than to say I think it may take longer than for a spoo or mini. Lily housebroke really fast too, so I was lucky.

I would suggest that you look at Dog Star Daily, which is Ian Dunbar's website. There will be a book called What To Do After You Get Your Puppy that you can down load for free. I believe that is the correct one where you will find his description of how to use long term confinement (ex pens) and short term confinement (crates) for housebreaking and getting through puppy chewing and the like. 

Good luck. I am sure you will do just fine once you get a good routine. And remember, routine is exactly what puppies need.


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## PoodleRick

lily cd re said:


> My dogs are both big, so I can't help you out about when to expect a tpoo to make it through the night other than to say I think it may take longer than for a spoo or mini. Lily housebroke really fast too, so I was lucky.
> 
> I would suggest that you look at Dog Star Daily, which is Ian Dunbar's website. There will be a book called What To Do After You Get Your Puppy that you can down load for free. I believe that is the correct one where you will find his description of how to use long term confinement (ex pens) and short term confinement (crates) for housebreaking and getting through puppy chewing and the like.
> 
> Good luck. I am sure you will do just fine once you get a good routine. And remember, routine is exactly what puppies need.


The book *What To Do After You Get Your Puppy* came after *What To Do Before You Get Your Puppy.* You can still get each of them. At the iTunes book store they sell them combined and I'm reading them now. So far so good.

Rick


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## genuineljl

I read both of those books (free downloads on Dog Star Daily). I loved them and love Ian's training style and humor! Thanks for suggesting! 
BTW, last night went great for us!  Advice from this forum worked like a charm! Thanks again everyone! I LOVE this forum!
Leslie 


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## PoodleRick

genuineljl said:


> I read both of those books *(free downloads on Dog Star Daily).* I loved them and love Ian's training style and humor! Thanks for suggesting!
> BTW, last night went great for us!  Advice from this forum worked like a charm! Thanks again everyone! I LOVE this forum!
> Leslie
> 
> 
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## genuineljl

@tinypoodles. I'm not sure I understand your question, "why are you even thinking about that". Do you mean why am I even thinking about crate training if she's always going to have access to and use piddle pads, or did you mean why am I planning on keeping piddle pads as a long-term method? I don't have a good answer to the first scenario, other than to say I read it in Ian's book on how to house train puppies and figured I should try to follow it. On the other hand, do I need to follow those house training instructions if she's always going to have access to piddle pads and go at her leisure? I suppose if we're traveling in the car etc I would want to know that she has bladder control. So now I wonder do dogs naturally develop a level of bladder control over time, or will the piddle pad method (always available) inhibit the development of longer bladder control?
If you meant why am I piddle pad training for long term use, it's because we don't get home at the same time every night and I want her to be comfortable (and because I know that small dogs train well to this method). I'm actually using Piddle Place product, and LOVE it. Puppy doesn't pull off the cover like she did with the regular puppy piddle pads (even when in a holder). 
I sound like I'm worrying too much ? but I don't want to set bad habits that will end up being much more difficult to fix later. Sounds like Ian Dunbar, huh? ?
Thanks again for everything!
Leslie


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## genuineljl

I'm also rewarding her generously every time I see her using the piddle pad so that she knows this is good behavior (and I'm ignoring the accidents and trying to get her to her piddle pad in time or for anything that's left). 


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## genuineljl

She tends to give a quick sniff and then squat (no circling or warning sometimes). I think I read that PoodleRick had the same issue, but maybe I'm mistaken. 


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## hopetocurl

This is my personal opinion... You can disagree...but I think you need to teach her manners and to hold her bladder. I also would never train my dog to go in the house, I do not care if it is a pad. My reason, if she were to ever need to be rehomed (not that she would...but what if) it makes it much harder to rehome her. Lots of people (ahem...raises hand) will not consider a dog thAt goes in the house. I had several vetS and a trainer or 2 tell me, if you permit them to go in the house...they will. It takes upwards if a year to undo that. Sorry, I am not bashing you or your decision, just playing Devil's advocate. Always something to think about.


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## PoodleRick

genuineljl said:


> She tends to give a quick sniff and then squat (no circling or warning sometimes). I think I read that PoodleRick had the same issue, but maybe I'm mistaken.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


You read right. Sometimes she's chewing on a toy, stops chewing, gets up takes two steps and squat. She does have a poop signal though. She gets kinda fidgety and starts pacing around. But pee? No signal. Or it's subtle and I'm missing it.


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## Newmum

Ember made it through the night ever since the 3rd night. The first 2 nights she was a bit ill from the moving, vaccinations and worming, probably should have spread them out more but once she was over that she had no problem sleeping through till 6am with her last potty break at 11pm. She's a miniature not a toy but saw the other replies were from owners of standard puppies so thought I'd let you know how a smaller puppy did. We didn't use pads so can only give opinions on that not based on experience.

Ember didn't circle and still doesn't for a wee. Her warning signs were much more subtle, as simple as if we were playing and she stopped playing, that was time to quickly scoop her up and take her outside. Poodles are smart, I don't think it will take you long if you keep up the praise when she does what you want. Also when she goes on the pad and you see her say 'go wee' or whatever word you choose over and over while she's going and praise, then you'll be able to tell her later 'go wee' before you get in the car or go in a friends house or whatever and she should know what you mean. 

Ember had a few wee accidents her first week, then only one since then when she was barking her head off at me and I didn't know why, then she wee'd on the floor and I thought 'ooohhhhh I get you' lol. She's only 4 months old but for quite a while now she runs to the door when she wants out for toilet. 

Your worry about her not developing bladder control because she always has access to the pad. I don't have any evidence to support it but I think she will naturally develop some control as she gets older. If you're worried about it but want to forever keep pads I guess later on you could take away the pad while you are at home, then put it down at certain times, put her on it and tell her 'go wee' then you could at least test whether she could do a car journey or whatever. Also if youre travelling in the car a long distance, if she is in her crate, without a pad in there, if she knows to only ever go on the pad then I cant see the difference between that and a dog that knows it has to go on the grass so wont go in the car.

I haven't looked into pad training a lot as I'm home all day so it made sense to just train Ember to go outside right from the start, so please anyone who has or anyone who did pad training feel free to correct me! Personally if its possible where you live, when you are home I would take her outside to go to the toilet and have the pad for emergencies if you are out a long time. But I guess that's because my preference would be to not have the pads. As an adult dog do you think she will have the pads? If yes then I guess it doesn't matter to train her to go outside but if you would like to get rid of them at some point I would take her outside when you are home.

And don't worry you don't sound like you're worrying too much! Having a new puppy makes you think of all kinds of questions when you thought you'd got all the answers before you brought puppy home


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## FireStorm

PoodleRick said:


> You read right. Sometimes she's chewing on a toy, stops chewing, gets up takes two steps and squat. She does have a poop signal though. She gets kinda fidgety and starts pacing around. But pee? No signal. Or it's subtle and I'm missing it.


Hans (standard boy) was exactly like this at first. I think he just didn't realize he had to go until it was too late. He is bell trained now, and he figured out the bells almost immediately but sometimes I swear he couldn't make it to the door to ring the bells in time. For a few weeks we had to be really quick - if he stopped what he was doing we had to get him outside immediately. Thankfully he outgrew that, and now he does fine.


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## lily cd re

PoodleRick said:


> The book *What To Do After You Get Your Puppy* came after *What To Do Before You Get Your Puppy.* You can still get each of them. At the iTunes book store they sell them combined and I'm reading them now. So far so good.
> 
> Rick


Yes Rick, I was being very literal wasn't I by only mentioning the one book. I think everybody should actually read both of them before and after they get their puppies. Ian is very generous about giving them away at Dog Star Daily! BTW I love all those puppy curls that Penny is sporting.


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## PoodleRick

lily cd re said:


> Yes Rick, I was being very literal wasn't I by only mentioning the one book. I think everybody should actually read both of them before and after they get their puppies. Ian is very generous about giving them away at Dog Star Daily! BTW I love all those puppy curls that Penny is sporting.


Thanks lily. I wasn't making any comment about the order you put them in I was just saying that they are available as a package. But I wish I had picked them up separately for free from his website. Oh well, it's all good.

Rick


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## lily cd re

Rick, I wasn't taking your post as a comment about mine, but instead thinking that I should have mentioned both of them since there is so much good stuff in the two of them that can help us live through puppy times whether we read them before or after the pup arrives.:wink::wink:


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## PoodleRick

lily cd re said:


> *Rick, I wasn't taking your post as a comment about mine,* but instead thinking that I should have mentioned both of them since there is so much good stuff in the two of them that can help us live through puppy times whether we read them before or after the pup arrives.:wink::wink:


Got it. Yeah, I'm reading them now. Sort of cherry picking the things I need to read as I go. Good stuff.

Rick


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## Tiny Poodles

hopetocurl said:


> This is my personal opinion... You can disagree...but I think you need to teach her manners and to hold her bladder. I also would never train my dog to go in the house, I do not care if it is a pad. My reason, if she were to ever need to be rehomed (not that she would...but what if) it makes it much harder to rehome her. Lots of people (ahem...raises hand) will not consider a dog thAt goes in the house. I had several vetS and a trainer or 2 tell me, if you permit them to go in the house...they will. It takes upwards if a year to undo that. Sorry, I am not bashing you or your decision, just playing Devil's advocate. Always something to think about.



That all depends upon where you live - for us city dwellers, pads are the preferred method - and a WELL trained poodle no more thinks that it is ok to potty ANYWHERE in the house just because they use an pad in the house then we do because we use a toilet in the house!


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## Tiny Poodles

genuineljl said:


> @tinypoodles. I'm not sure I understand your question, "why are you even thinking about that". Do you mean why am I even thinking about crate training if she's always going to have access to and use piddle pads, or did you mean why am I planning on keeping piddle pads as a long-term method? I don't have a good answer to the first scenario, other than to say I read it in Ian's book on how to house train puppies and figured I should try to follow it. On the other hand, do I need to follow those house training instructions if she's always going to have access to piddle pads and go at her leisure? I suppose if we're traveling in the car etc I would want to know that she has bladder control. So now I wonder do dogs naturally develop a level of bladder control over time, or will the piddle pad method (always available) inhibit the development of longer bladder control?
> If you meant why am I piddle pad training for long term use, it's because we don't get home at the same time every night and I want her to be comfortable (and because I know that small dogs train well to this method). I'm actually using Piddle Place product, and LOVE it. Puppy doesn't pull off the cover like she did with the regular puppy piddle pads (even when in a holder).
> I sound like I'm worrying too much ? but I don't want to set bad habits that will end up being much more difficult to fix later. Sounds like Ian Dunbar, huh? ?
> Thanks again for everything!
> Leslie
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



I was only asking why you were worried about when she would be able to make it through the night if she had the pads to use anyhow, but now that I understand your concern, I can assure you that pad trained dogs most definitely develop bladder and bowel control - my girls never get out of bed to use the pad at night, unless they are having a stomach issue. I can easily take them out for 4-8 hours, and they will hold it. Even at home during the day when they could go as often as they like, they only go maybe every 4 or five hours. Usually the more active they are, the more that they have to go, so if I am taking them out for a while, I will play ball with them for a few minutes before going,which will usually give them the idea to use the pad if they have been holding on to anything. 


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## N2Mischief

Misha was only pad trained. She had it down in a matter of a few days. She had maybe 2 accidents at 8 weeks and NONE since. She is 17 months old and had NEVER missed her potty pad. When we visit my sister's house which is HUGE I place a pad in her laundry room. One time we were stuck in traffic, not able to get off the freeway. I placed a potty pad on the floor in the back of the car, took Misha out of her bag and told her to piddle, she immediately did and was put back in her bag. No fuss. 

My chihuahuas are trained outside, though Pablo was originally trained to a pad. In an emergency (he is on Prednisone) he will use a pad, but will hold it as long as possible. Emilio only goes outside. 

My thinking is that when I am gone up to 8 hours from home, I certainly have to pee while I am gone. Making my dogs hold it, though possible, is probably uncomfortable. I sure wouldn't want to be left for 8 hours with no relief!


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## hopetocurl

Tiny Poodles said:


> That all depends upon where you live - for us city dwellers, pads are the preferred method - and a WELL trained poodle no more thinks that it is ok to potty ANYWHERE in the house just because they use an pad in the house then we do because we use a toilet in the house!
> 
> 
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Guess I am spoiled.... I have a nice yard....


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## Tiny Poodles

hopetocurl said:


> Guess I am spoiled.... I have a nice yard....
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Yup, it is completely different then having to get fully dressed, but on coat, boots etc, wait for an elevator, walk through the long lobby, and go out onto the cold, sometimes not so safe city streets every time that your dog has to pee! If I had a yard that I could just let a dog out into to potty and exercise, I would probably have Standards instead of toys - but I would never have a large dog in the city for just those reasons!


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