# Zoomies: Fun or a Stress Release



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Thank you for your perspective on this topic. I had no idea zoomies could be caused by stress. I hope Maizie's zoomies have been all in fun--all of her body language seems to indicate that.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

zooeysmom said:


> Thank you for your perspective on this topic. I had no idea zoomies could be caused by stress. I hope Maizie's zoomies have been all in fun--all of her body language seems to indicate that.


I would suspect that Maizie's zoomies are energy releasing and all in fun. She is still young.

What one has to watch is what happens before the dog takes off to zoom. Was there a stressful event or circumstance? Did you see other signs of stress like showing a lot of the white of the eyes? Did they chatter their teeth, stop abruptly what they were doing and look around like they are scanning or air scenting? Those could be signs that the dog has detected something nearby that is making them wary. Zooming after that may be a way to release stress.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Watch and Know Your Dog is my take home message from this discussion. Sophy zooms purely for joy - out on short grass, when the sky is blue and the sun is shining and the birds are singing, everything that needs sniffing has been sniffed, peed on and/or pooed on, when all is exactly right she will zoom, swinging back by me for a giggly tickle, and then zoom again in great swinging circles and figures of eight, until she collapses panting onto the grass and grins up at me. I love it! Stress is fairly easy to spot in her - first her ears go forward, then back, and if it gets really bad both ears and tail go down and she gets slower and slower... Poppy rarely zooms but when she does it is in play, usually with another dog but sometimes with a human. But my dogs are rarely under much stress these days - the joy of retirement is that I am usually relaxed and therefore so are they...


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

fjm yes, watch and know your dog for sure. I think in the US though many people are not very observant. While many of my students are bright hard working people I find they often miss social cues from each other and when I ask them questions based on having made observations they tend to struggle. Learning to read a dog's signals well is not something that will be readily accomplished by people who are always in a hurry. I am sure being retired helps many aspects of your wise advice.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

I was playing last week with a Toy Somethingpoo, a tiny little thing. I teased her a bit and she took off in the zoomies. But the cute thing was the madblurofflyinglegsandthenthe l-e-a-p... thru the air. Then back to legsgoingsofastyoucan'tseethemandthenanother l-e-a-p. 

Dogs make me laff!


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## darialam (Aug 7, 2016)

*Leap*

My poodles do that zoom, leap, zoom thing too in our backyard. Just love it!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Zoomies from a dog that is comfortable in its environment and clearly having fun (comes back to play, shows relaxed eyes and the like) is a joy to watch. I just think that under some circumstances what an uneducated eye sees as fun isn't always fun and we should pay attention to what dogs are trying very hard to tell us. Among other things I am thinking about the thread where a dog that comes home from day care exhausted and on the day care camera can be seen to just lie down and not play is trying to tell its owner, "mom I don't want to go to day care!"

Zooming can be an explosive release of stress, although not so when done by a happy dog playing it its own yard or home.


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## janet6567 (Mar 11, 2014)

Abbey did zoomies until about 5 years ago when she started gaining weigh and really slowed down. She would run circles in the yard while I played fetch with Maggie. Abbey had no interest in playing fetch. Now that Abbey has lost weight and we have her insulin dosage regulated, she acts and looks 5 years younger and is running and playing again. She loves to run in circles around the dining room table The look on her face is one of joy! Sometimes Maggie joins in the "race track" run!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

janet6567 said:


> Abbey did zoomies until about 5 years ago when she started gaining weigh and really slowed down. She would run circles in the yard while I played fetch with Maggie. Abbey had no interest in playing fetch. Now that Abbey has lost weight and we have her insulin dosage regulated, she acts and looks 5 years younger and is running and playing again. She loves to run in circles around the dining room table The look on her face is one of joy! Sometimes Maggie joins in the "race track" run!


And look at that, lack of zoomies in a dog that normally loves to run can be telling you something very important too.

One of the biggest complaints the various vets I know have is when people come in with a very ill animal and seem to lie about having just noticed that the dog wasn't eating well a couple of days ago or just having noticed that the dog wouldn't put full weight on one of its legs. they know these statements are either lies or signs of a person who just doesn't pay attention when it is clear to them on exam that the problem is chronic (weeks/months) and not acute (hours/days).


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

lily cd re said:


> Zooming can be an explosive release of stress, although not so when done by a happy dog playing it its own yard or home.


Lol, Prof... I do take the point you're trying to make. Not ignoring it, just playing around with some happy zoomies stories first.  
From some of the videos I've seen, you may be right. In a ring, under pressure, maybe they are reacting to stress. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS91cRSgGgg


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Countryboy that video was posted yesterday in a thread that talked about that dog having fun. I said there that I wasn't so sure it was all about fun and started the discussion here to separate it from the other conversation where the OP noted that the handler said she believed her dog to be having fun.

At this point I think that perhaps this can/should become a discussion of reading stress signs particularly or perhaps being better at reading canine body language generally or maybe we don't need to talk about any of those things.


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## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

lily cd re said:


> Countryboy that video was posted yesterday in a thread that talked about that dog having fun. I said there that I wasn't so sure it was all about fun and started the discussion here to separate it from the other conversation where the OP noted that the handler said she believed her dog to be having fun.
> 
> At this point I think that perhaps this can/should become a discussion of reading stress signs particularly or perhaps being better at reading canine body language generally or maybe we don't need to talk about any of those things.


Maybe you could find and post some videos that clearly show a dog that is stressed. A picture's worth a thousand words, and video is even better, especially in a situation where you're looking for visual cues. I had a class where the trainer was good about pointing out and explaining when dogs were stressed and it was very helpful to see it in my dog and the other dogs in the class. It really helped me to recognize those signals.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Good idea, I will look for some of those things on video later in the day. I think I have one or two with Lily that show some of what I am talking about. I will post links for them with an explanation of what is happening that shows stress signs.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

I see so much posted in so many places that I can't remember where and when I've seen it before. So I post it in this thread for people who are reading this thread and haven't seen it. 

Signs of nervousness in dogs in general are somewhat immaterial when applied to our own dogs. I already know what makes Tonka nervous. But I don't much care about displays of nervousness in your dog. That's your concern. 

Or sometimes I need to get Tonka to do something that I know will make him nervous... but for no ill reason. So I ignore all the signs. 

If you want to run a primer for those who don't know the signs, you should maybe put it in a meme. It's easier for people to discuss that way. Your approach is akin to a mentor vetting a Masters applicant.

I don't mind at all to contribute to it... but not at any length really.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Thanks Lily, I don't do agility and wasn't aware of this phenomenon. It is real and you have described it very well, from what I then read on the subject. It seems to be a real problem in the agility world.

I suppose it also happens under many stressful circumstances, but people just don't recognize it.


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## Axeldog (Aug 29, 2014)

At the latest obedience trial we went to I was watching a lady with a golden in beginner novice. The second she let go of his leash the dog exploded into uncontrolled zoomies, probably circling the ring 10 or more times. 

At the time, I thought the dog was "having fun" but in retrospect, after reading this thread I am sure it was a case stress release. 


I posted this before, but here is an example of what I am certain is zooming for fun 
https://youtu.be/6chwTflMcvI


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Axeldog the golden retriever certainly sounds like a dog zooming to release stress! In your video the zooming is all in good fun. It is at home and Axel was pretty young then I guess, so lots of energy for play. His ears are relaxed and his tail is a happy tail.

Here are a couple of recent videos that show some of what I mean.

Lily and I did utility at a new place last week. Since dogs are not good generalizers, being asked to do things that are challenging was really hard for her. Lily would never dream of doing zoomies in an obedience ring at this point, but she will relieve her stress by trying to visit stewards and judges as well as working slowly. At the beginning you can see that I took Lily by the collar because she was starting to walk away. We had just attempted the directed retrieve but the steward had put out someone else's gloves and being sent to the wrong gloves had given us both a little frustration. At about 45 seconds you will see that I offered her the glove to play tug with and she wouldn't play. At about 2:35 in this part of our run if you watch her work the first article you will see that she is slow and goes over the pile several times even though she indicated the correct article the first time she checked it. She also returned slowly. For the second article she did just what she should have done, went out checked and picked up the correct article as soon as she knew it was the right one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNtsWJcgCFs

In contrast in this video of Javelin doing work with the dumbbell at my club a couple of weeks ago you see a completely happy and confident dog. Instead of quitting when he drops the dumbbell he is ready to take it again. He moves well and has a bright affect throughout this session. What is being asked of Javvy is very simple compared to what Lily is doing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_gTc_9BBgM


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I forgot to add earlier that we have to remember that stress is not always a bad thing. Remember how stressed out you were before you moved into your dream home? Remember how stressful it was worrying about whether you had all the supplies you needed for your puppy before you brought it home? Well those events turned out fine, right? Your home is wonderful and all the better for having your dog with you there. Those are relatively short term or acute stresses that are released when a clear end point is reached.

Chronic stress like worrying about money when you never seem to have enough or dealing with a long hard illness being experienced by a loved one. These chronic stresses are different. They result in long term physiological responses like the production of excessive amounts of cortisol, a major stress hormone. 

Dogs also can experience short term stress as Lily did over the wrong gloves being there and being in a new place or the can experience long term stress such as that experienced by a dog that is socially deprived, nutritionally deprived, not housebroken and afraid of making mistakes for which it will be punished.

If you read the stress carefully and take appropriate steps to let the dog get relief then you are doing right by your dog. In the long term of their lives both Lily and Javelin will deal with short term stressors in various places and doing different things, but each time they succeed and develop more confidence as a result of that outcome their bond with me becomes stronger because I have supported their efforts. Other folks here have acquired adult dogs that arrived with having experienced long term stresses and lack of confidence as a result. As those people well know it can take a very long time to help that dog release the stress and gain happy confidence, but it is very well worth having done it.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

I've seen Hans do zoomies for fun and when he's stresses. At home, in our yard, he just loves to race around the yard as fast as he can, especially when it's cool out in the early morning or evening. 

He will also do zoomies when he's stressed (or maybe frustrated is a better description). It usually happens during a blind retreive (when I know where the bird/dummy is, he didn't see it, and I'm directing him) or hunt dead (where we know the general area but he needs to find it himself). He's getting better at handling the frustration with age and practice, but at first if he couldn't find and make the retrieve quickly he'd just quit listing and start running around, almost in a panic. I think the issue is he knows what he needs to do (fetch), he's highly motivated to do it, but he can't do it until he finds the thing. So it's frustrating. He hasn't been force-fetched, so he's not afraid of punishment, he just really wants to do the retrieve and gets upset when he can't.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

FireStorm thank you for your description of another scenario of happy vs. stressed/frustrated zoomies. I have quite a good picture of what you mean, but it sure is nice to see the dog work through the problem and then work it with joy, isn't it?


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## TeamPoodle (Aug 10, 2015)

Catherine, thanks for starting this thread. We've been working agility and if we're working it outside, we'll get at least one bout of the zoomies. I didn't know zoomies could be a sign of stress, so I thought it was pent up energy but now I'm wondering if it could be stress. It happens usually after one of two instances: either he does a great job at something and is getting high rewards and praise, at which point he will break off and run laps around the yard, and if there's a toy on the ground he'll pick it up, toss it, run with it, and keep doing zoomies (and nothing I say or do gets him back to me), or else it happens after learning a new hard skill, which I assume would be stress zoomies. 

So I guess I have 2 questions:
1. Is this a sign that perhaps Riley isn't cut out for agility work? That it is stressing him out? When I have him in a stay in front of a jump he's barely got his butt on the ground he's so excited for me to release him so he can do the jump, and I literally can't ever get him off the dog walk, so I know he does enjoy some elements of agility. I started agility because we both seemed to enjoy it and it was something to do together, but if we never compete because that's not Riley's destiny that would be fine. His health comes first.

2. What do you do if you notice signs of stress while doing performance sports? I'm wondering if in our lessons it would make sense to have more play sessions, or to stop learning if he's getting stressed and do something "fun" instead?

Thanks


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

The zoom after a good run is happy running in all likelihood. It would be hard to imagine otherwise. The zoom in your second scenario is probably a stress releaser. 

Before you start do things to connect with your dog. Try the attention and focus activities that I have talked about here. http://www.poodleforum.com/23-general-training-obedience/210673-focus-attention-training.html

If a dog is clearly showing stress (zoomies, yawning, sneezing, scratching, avoidance behaviors like trying to visit other people) then I would take a short break to reconnect to the dog and have him release the stress in a productive way. Try to get him to play tug if you play it. He will use some physical energy, have fun engaging with you and then should be ready to go back to work.

I don't think that showing stress over being asked to do something hard means the dog is not suited to the sport. Rather I think it means that you should acknowledge that what you are asking is hard and that you should make sure you offer all the support you can to your dog by getting clearly reconnected to him. Take a short play break. If he won't play then offer a good rub along his sides and down his legs to release physical tension. When we teach our children to ride a bike there will be falls, they will be afraid when the training wheels come off and the like but none of that means that you wouldn't want your child to learn to ride the bike. It is very similar with your dog. If I thought that being stressed about learning something new, but hard and once well know fun, was bad for a dog I would have stopped training and trialing five years ago.


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## TeamPoodle (Aug 10, 2015)

Thank you so much Catherine for your advice! I think what I'll do is ask our agility trainer if we can add in tug sessions after hard tasks, and maybe let Riley take breaks and she can work with me on better handling skills. 

And of course, to start paying closer attention to his signals so I know when he's getting stressed.


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## Mason (Aug 17, 2016)

My non-poodle used to often do zoomies after baths (which she loathed). I used to only bathe her as needed, but I discovered a few years ago that monthly flea treatments seemed to exacerbate her seizures and now bathing is our #1 means of flea control. As she became more comfortable with baths, the frantic post-bath behavior waned. Now she just does a little "dry dance" while I'm toweling her off and then finds a warm spot to lay in.

Fun as it is to watch, in her old age the zoomies are definitely an indicator that something has riled her up.


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## seminolewind (Mar 11, 2016)

Everything seems to exasperate seizures. We avoided any kind of bug spray, and vaccinations after a few years. Also those drops like Frontline. In the last few years of my dog's life we couldn't do it any more. The Florida roaches needed to live outside. Then my dogs got a flea infestation that was awful. My other dog at the time had thick white coat that you could not see her skin through, and I shaved her down to find that she was literally anemic from the fleas. The dogs used to stay and sleep by my husband and he never noticed.
So I can empathize with you there.


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