# Gut health testing dietary needs



## Heartland2022 (8 mo ago)

It's official it's been launched. Embark the makers of the DNA dog testing kits. They have launched the gut health test kit looks exciting. A wealth of information on your specific dogs dietary needs. Has anyone had the chance to try it yet? I'm picking up a kit as we speak. It's amazing the amount of research and contribution they make to the well being of our canine companions. A specific dietary plan for your dog sounds worth it to me.


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## Miki (Dec 25, 2021)

My experience with gut issues with poodles over 25 years is so fraught that I simply can't believe that diet alone is the answer. My Tucker (Spoo) was Addisonian plus had chronic pancreatitis. Mike (Spoo) was just always a loose stool guy. Sully (mini) was rock solid perfect until his kidneys started to fail.

Ty (mini) and I spent Sunday at the EVet and at home waiting for our appointment - acute vomiting with blood and explosive diarrhea, also with blood, with no obvious cause. HGE? I have no idea. X-rays to confirm no blockage then treating symptoms (fluids, flagyl, ID canned food) seems to have fixed the problem. But sheesh ....

GI issues are really frustrating and sad. 10 hours later he was much more perky.


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## Heartland2022 (8 mo ago)

Glad to hear your dogs are feeling better. That sounds like quite the ordeal. My main interest in the test is the dietary plan. Once I get results I'll post so everybody can see what type of information it offers. I'm really excited to know myself I want to provide him with the best nutrition I can. I'm not sure if it goes in depth on genetic gut problems or not but looks like I'm going to find out🙂


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

I’m very skeptical about this. What effect does time and extreme heat (being mailed from my area this time of year) have on the bacteria in the poop sample? I only glanced at the website, but the example they gave needed a 30 day supply of their supplement. I wonder what percentage of their samples they recommend their supplement for?


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I’m also extremely skeptical and will not be wasting my money.


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## Heartland2022 (8 mo ago)

Skylar said:


> I’m also extremely skeptical and will not be wasting my money.


I'll let you know if I wasted mine😉. I'd walk through fire for my hunting dogs.


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## Heartland2022 (8 mo ago)

Starla said:


> I’m very skeptical about this. What effect does time and extreme heat (being mailed from my area this time of year) have on the bacteria in the poop sample? I only glanced at the website, but the example they gave needed a 30 day supply of their supplement. I wonder what percentage of their samples they recommend their supplement for?


Now you got me wondering too. I'll have to send them an email would be valuable information to know the percentage.


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## Pavie (May 4, 2021)

Starla said:


> I’m very skeptical about this. What effect does time and extreme heat (being mailed from my area this time of year) have on the bacteria in the poop sample? I only glanced at the website, but the example they gave needed a 30 day supply of their supplement. I wonder what percentage of their samples they recommend their supplement for?


Yes, that's a good point. 

A few months ago, I participated in a gut microbiome study at the university I work at (it paid $100 and a free gut microbiome report, yay!). I had to collect poop samples for 2 weeks (3 samples each week). It required that I freeze the poop in the freezer (no worries, they provided an insulation container from food) and bring it over to the lab while frozen (another option was to poop in the toilet next to the lab and freeze it immediately in their freezer). It seems temperature was very critical. 

I actually just got back my gut microbiome report last week. And I can tell you that it's quite variable from day to day. In sample 1, I had 65% lachnospiraceae, 16% bifidobacteriaceae, 4% erysipelotrichaceae, 5% ruminococcaceae, and others; in sample 2, I had 51% lachnospiraceae, 15% bifidobacteriaceae, 15% erysipelotrichaceae, 16% enterococcaceae, and others; in sample 3, I had 27% lachnospiraceae, 39% bifidobacteriaceae, 15% erysipelotrichaceae, 6% ruminococcaceae, and others. I'll skip reporting week 2. But you can see it's quite variable. I guess it's possible that being human, our diets are more variable and maybe that might have an impact (maybe ?). 

I agree with the skepticism. But I do think it would be a fun activity to do regardless.


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

I guess I would wonder about the validity of the test results. I would still end up taking Rhonda to the Vet if something didn't look right. As a dietary tool, it might be beneficial.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Heartland2022 said:


> I'll let you know if I wasted mine😉. I'd walk through fire for my hunting dogs.


I do the best I can for my dogs. My older minipoo has an allergy to legumes. It took me awhile to figure it out and then test it out to determine it’s real. For several years I homemade her food because I couldn’t find dog food without legumes. She also has ulcerative colitis. I have her on the right food that keeps her stools normal; she is completely healthy. If I needed more help I would have taken her to a specialist to run invasive tests and take biopsies. 

As you can see from Pavie’s post to do this properly requires more that shipping one stool sample off. Plus the microbiome is variable and complex ; science is just beginning to explore and understand it.

Personally if my dog had a health issue I would go to the vet. I also would not change my dogs diet based on those results. If your dog’s diet wasn’t working I would work with your vet or perhaps a specialist. If your dogs diet is working, I wouldn’t change it.

Yes this would be fun to do and share the results for discussion. Sorry, but I see it as a marketing gimmick, not health advice. And they encourage you to do it a second time after making changes to the diet, and perhaps each time you make small changes to the diet….this could get expensive with any scientific basis.

OTOH they have some markers for genetic tests that are reliable and are worthwhile.


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## Heartland2022 (8 mo ago)

Skylar, No need to be sorry for having a different opinion to mine🙂. The test for canines may very well be a gimmick as you stated. I'm not sure how many stool samples it would take for a canine? Especially in reguards to my non medical canine test needs. As I outlined in my earlier post🙂. I'm mostly interested in the insight on canine diet nutritional needs it may provide to me or an expert specialist to review 🐩. Multiple samples would get expensive really quickly as you pointed out 💰. If that's what it takes for insight on a dietary nutritional plan. At some point it could possibly be out of my reach financially speaking unfortunately 😪 . I have no doubt you do the best you can for your dogs as you stated good job👍 🙂. Your mention of Pavie's post dealing with human gut microbiomes test frequency/cost. I agree Pavie's statements were on point I've had to have this done myself. Unfortunately I suffer from Crohn's disease but it ain't held me back none yet 😎. Even if the specialist experts said it would I keep moving forward. I think Pavie did a awsome job outline a possible human canine biome difference also in their post🤠. I imagine that would have a dramatic effect on procedure for my testing reasons needs🦴. In regards to a specialist recommendation. I happen to be that person the expert specialist hates🤓. In the age of leave it all to the professional experts. I think we need more independent thinkers in todays world 🌎. Those willing to buck the status quo. Independently thinking outside of the box made for us. The world trains us all to not rock the boat or just go with the flow. Things taught to us like fall in line because only the pro or experts have the answer or get to know. I'm with you on this one Skylar it took some exploring by specialist experts outside of that status quo. Because if it didn't then what the heck does the specialist expert really know? Hearing it from the expert specialist is not good enough for me. I myself want to personally research so I myself for me know. Never stop learning that's my motto 💯. I did find some interesting reading materials. Them experts sure are hot for research before they become expert specialists on show. I think this is where they might be made at🤔. I ain't no expert not yet anyway so I don't really know😅. Check out the link below it's got plenty of specialized experts on show.





Google Scholar







scholar.google.com












I suppose I could save myself a lot of time. Hiring one of these specialized veterinarians take them at their word. I think the title is Veterinary Nutritionist for my dogs needs. I'll have to check into the cost of that. If it's financially more feasible that might be the way I go.I wonder if they use gut biome to formulate their custom canine nutrition plans? Maybe they use embark I ain't no expert so I wouldn't know.


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## Footprints&pawmarks (Mar 8, 2021)

Heartland, are you anywhere near a veterinary medical school? Most if not all of them have board-certified veterinary nutritionists on their faculty. I'm in CA and I would contact UC Davis to talk to their vet nutritionist if I needed to.

I'd do that before I'd do the test you mentioned, but that's me. And, as everybody says, we all want what's best for our dogs. That's the great thing about this forum -- we're united by this force!

Let us know what you discover, please!


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## Heartland2022 (8 mo ago)

Thanks for the info my area is pretty rural I'll have to look into that. I like to go into anything I pursue with as much information as possible. I've found that an informed individual isn't easily taken advantage of. Not that I'm knocking veterinarians many of them are very good God bless em. I know the state requirements are varied for continuing education the type and amounts. Beyond the mandated 60 hours 3 year renewal license requirement. The area I'm in is very rural it's farm country. With so many different types of veterinarians titles specialties I think 41±. It can get quite confusing making sure your dog is receiving the utmost medical care. I've had some veterinarians struggle to keep up. Only to tell me they don't specialize in that area or not versed in the newest advancements- research. Which is understandable seeing the clients they deal with on a daily. I imagine there are a lot more poodles in California with vets that deal with them nearly on the daily. Out here it's Clydesdale horses Berkshire hogs Angus cows ducks chickens ect. I always cringe when I hear not sure how to dose this shot for a dog of this size weight ect.😬 That or statements like we don't get too many standard poodles minies or toys ect. Now I make it it habit of asking about thier education all of it. Looking at their full title certs when investigating a new care professional for my animal. I also make it a habit of asking how current they are on new research and technology. Most of them haven't even heard of the new neuter spay procedures that are less invasive.


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