# My Spoo is ruining my life



## Coconator (Aug 5, 2020)

Hi! So I brought my Standard Poodle, Coco, home with me on June 8, 2020. Man, what a ride and trail of tears it’s been. Speaking of tears, I’m currently drowning in them writing this post. So as I mentioned, I brought Coco home with me about two months ago. I had heard puppies were a lot of work but nothing would prepare me for the blues that wash over me regularly.

I’ve gotten books, read blogs, watched videos, spoken to professionals, and done everything under the sun to prepare for my new fur baby. He’s had medical insurance since before he even came home! Having had a dog when I was in high school that never quite “got it” I.e. potty training, obedience, etc. I was determined to do everything right to ensure Coco and I had the best experience now that I’m a lot older, financially prepared, and willing to take on the commitment. This included potty breaks every 30 minutes for his first month home. I lost about 10 pounds and countless hours of sleep in the process. I’m working from home so I give him potty breaks, plenty of exercise, and quiet for his naps. I make sure he has enough toys so he’s never bored. Okay, so we’re a few days away from his two month mark at home - and his 4 months of age. Rule of thumb is, they can hold it an hour for every month but I’m so paranoid I still take him outside every two hours. In the span of 3 days, he’s had Five accidents. I take him out first time in the morning. Right after breakfast. Every two hours and every time he wakes up from a nap. My brand new carpet is ruined. I just may mop the sheen off my hardwood floors and my home is beginning to smell like a kennel. To make matters worse, I’ve done literally everything by the book to no avail. I no longer have a social life, I’ve passed up on work and personal projects to ensure there’s always someone home - for what? It seems like I’m sacrificing so much and seeing no results. I’m seriously considering rehoming because the moments of joy are so far apart. Is this normal? Am I overreacting?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Oh dear. I'm sorry you're struggling so.  I can empathize with the puppy blues and can assure you that part gets better.

But the housebreaking situation won't get better until your puppy understands what's expected of him. And right now he clearly doesn't.

The good news? You just need to figure out how to communicate the potty rules to him. Once you do, he'll probably be even more grateful than you! This is likely very stressful for him, too.

Can I ask why you're taking him out so often? Have you kept written track of the times the accidents occur and what preceded them? This will help you build a schedule that better suits his needs.

Then it's outside at those times to potty, huge treat party when he does, and then back inside (or to the yard for a play session or out for a walk or whatever he loves best).

If he doesn't potty (even though you know he probably needs to go, because he just finished eating, sleeping, drinking, playing, racing around, etc.), he's confined for thirty minutes or tethered to you.

Then you try again.

This is the basic way to potty train, but we can offer more specific advice if you give us a detailed breakdown of his current routine.


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

It’s normal to feel stressed after bringing a puppy home. After all, this is a huge lifestyle change akin to bringing home a new baby. And in a way, a puppy is a baby. One thing that helps many people is to learn the puppy’s schedule. If you could share your typical day with approximate time stamps for activities, that would help us a lot to guide you through things!  What in particular is frustrating you about Coco? Are you crate training? Do you have the dog tethered to you on a leash at all times, or is he allowed to roam the house? With a male dog, marking is likely—are you using a urine remover to clean off any smell? Remember that dogs have no sense of bladder control until after a certain point, and when they need to go, they do right in the moment.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Between what you’ve learned online and in books, etc. it does sound like you have information and I’m sure you will be offered excellent advice on this forum, especially once you share more specifics. 
I want to offer you some realistic encouragement. Some puppies potty train easily and quickly and some do not. It can be extremely discouraging if your puppy does not. Bobby did not. I had read that the average age of puppies being housebroken is actually six months. It’s easy to focus on the ones that get it right away then feel like there is something wrong with your puppy. It is very discouraging. I know. We took Bobby to the vet even because he was peeing so much as a little pup. He was fine.
The one thing we learned very, very quickly is that Bobby felt our emotions and when he felt our stress he peed more. We coined it emotional peeing because it wasn’t excitement and it wasn’t submissive. He also peed a lot when we were out of his site in the early weeks. We never yelled, were always calm but of course, internally we were stressed. And he felt it. We had to train ourselves to be internally calm. Accidents had to be no big deal. Obviously, one needs to train and properly clean the accidents and definitely not give too much freedom, celebrate success and all the other things that go with house training a pup but even if one does that all perfectly, some pups just take longer. I think if that is accepted it becomes easier to be calm about it. Celebrate progress. Bobby spent a lot of time in the kitchen with a gate. His time in the rest of the house was always strictly supervised. There were days I thought he would never be house trained. It took awhile, probably 8 months old for him to be completely trusted in the house when we were home but every week got better and better. He was crated when we were gone. Crate training really helps. 
As hard as it is, celebrate big time the successes and be calm, calm, calm when there is an accident. Poodles really are sensitive and will pick up on your frustration even if you don’t outwardly show it, at least that how was was with my poodle. I really can relate. Hang in there. It will get better! I know you will get some good advice and support. This is a great forum.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

Neither you nor Coco has failed. It takes time to build a team. Frankly, at the two-month mark, I'd have returned my first child if I'd had a sales slip.

Are you using a crate that is small enough that Coco won't relieve himself in it? If so, he can be crated and you can get some rest. Then don't give him the run of your home. Limit him to one area (with a tile floor?).

You mentioned having more than adequate financial resources. Have you tried calling a trainer?


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Plenty of good advice here. I would definitely restrict his access to areas that are hard to clean. Buy a tarp if you need to, and fence off a nice area for him to have free time. X pen panels may be used as well. Make things easier on yourself. My puppy took around 6-8 weeks to potty train but he started to really get things around 4 months. When things finally click they make great progress. But it can take a while. I remember feeling like all my time was spent cleaning pee, poo, and vomit. Or getting chewed on! It does get better, but the puppy blues are a serious thing. We've got your back. You will get through it and have a great puppy in the end.


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## RM<3Jaanu (Jul 3, 2020)

Hi Coconator! You are not alone. Bringing home a new puppy is so challenging. It is a lot of work and there's always behavioral things to work on. The frustration is real and this forum has been a godsend for me during the challenging times. So firstly, so glad you are reaching out. 

If you haven't already I would highly recommend reading Dr. Ian Dunbar's "After you get your puppy" He is a huge advocate of crate training and using short term and long term confinement for potty training. In my opinion it is a must have to have a crate and to place that crate in a play-pen. This method has helped me immensely in these first weeks of having my puppy. I also keep Jaanu off the carpet (or anywhere where his mess cannot be easily cleaned) unless I 100 percent know he has just gone to the bathroom. I also recommend training him on pee pads first and then progressing to outside. For the first few days Jaanu was a pee pad guy. 

Put some of Coco's urine on the pee-pad so that it has his scent. Have his crate in his playpen and have the pee pad in his play pen. When you let him out of the crate (once he has had at least an hour in there), have him go to the pad. Make sure to say go potty as he is peeing (so he comes to associate the command with the action) and when he is done, say good boy and give him his favorite treat. As you transition to outside pottying praise for pee pad use but only reward outdoor pottying. 

Here's what's worked for me so far (and there are accidents here and there of course, important to remember they are still babies). Night-time, have Jaanu in the from 9:30 to about 11 (once he wakes up). I let him out to have a pee (and a poo if needed) on the pee pad. I lure him back to the crate with a treat and he falls asleep. We wake up at 2:30 to do the same thing and at 5:00 to do the same thing. Let him out at 8 ish (when he wakes up) let him outside, have him go potty and give him is favorite treat and praise. Play time outside and inside (since I know his bowels and bladder are empty). Crate time for an hour, take him out and let him do his business, play time outside, play-pen time for an hour (or if you think he might get the urge to go in the play-pen, put a pee pad down, put a bit of his urine on it so it has the scent). Then crate or take him outside to go. And so on. Pretty much I let him out after he wakes up from sleep and after I let him out of the crate or if we have been playing for a while (about an hour). 

Also definitely use a scent removing urine cleaner anywhere he has gone potty, otherwise he will have the urge to mark again or at the very least he will think that it's an ok place to go potty. 

Disclaimer myself and the other person in the household taking care of Jaanu are at home all of the time (remote work) because of the pandemic and that has definitely been a help as well. But the rules of long and short term confinement seem even more crucial and more helpful when you have to leave your puppy alone for long periods of time. Do not give your dog the run of the whole house. Only let him out of the play pen or the crate if you can supervise him at all times, otherwise the little guy is bound to get into trouble which is no fun for anyone. As Dr. Dunbar says, some level of confinement is needed now so that a dog can have freedom once it is older.


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## RM<3Jaanu (Jul 3, 2020)

Another thing, I have heard that soft surfaces stimulate their urge to pee, so definitely keep carpet to a minimum.


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## RM<3Jaanu (Jul 3, 2020)

I also have a crate with a divider so I can make sure he only has enough room in there to sleep (and not to potty) in there and adjust as he grows. Rule of thumb is that they should be able to spin around and lay down but not much else.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

RM<3Jaanu said:


> Another thing, I have heard that soft surfaces stimulate their urge to pee, so definitely keep carpet to a minimum.


When we were crate training Bobby he needed the tray in the kennel to be totally bare as he peed on the blanket/towel we had in there originally. Once we took the blanket out he never peed in his kennel again. And yes, definitely keep the space just small enough to turn around.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

RM<3Jaanu said:


> Another thing, I have heard that soft surfaces stimulate their urge to pee, so definitely keep carpet to a minimum.


Yes! We've actually still not put our carpets back down, and Peggy's 14 months old! Lol. Just can't be bothered.

Soft things triggered Peggy's only puppy pee accidents—including peeing down multiple vents because of the curtains hanging over them. Awful!!! But....an easy fix once we had that "aha" moment.

That's where keeping written notes can really pay off. When you're deep in it, patterns aren't always apparent. But when you can step back and read: "Peed on towel. Peed on vent. Peed on another vent. Peed on wool mattress topper..." you can say, "Okay, what do these things have in common?" And suddenly it clicks! We tied up all the curtains, took away the doggy beds, and made sure her crate was only big enough for her to sleep, drink, and comfortably turn around in. Easy.

Same for the timing of accidents. We quickly realized that puppy Peggy needed two morning toilet breaks, fairly close together. But if we'd not kept track, we'd have been pulling out our hair, trying to figure out why _she_ wasn't getting it, when in fact it was us not understanding her needs.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I’m sorry you’re struggling so much. As others have said, it will get better. One day, you’ll realize your dog understands what is expected of him and that day you’ll be so happy !

Carpets, towels, blankets, clothing and soft items are definitely a no-no. Dogs learn to relieve themselves on soft material when they are tiny babies and it remains the material of choice for many, many dogs. My dogs are adults and I can’t have carpet. I’ve tried many times and it always ends up the same way. Fence off the carpet area.

As for accidents, it would be easier to help you if you could describe exactly in what circumstances they happen. But just remember one thing : it’s never the dog’s fault.

Hang in there, it will get better. So much better !


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I feel your pain. My current puppy Galen has been incredibly difficult. He had accident after accident inside. He was so fast. We wouldn't even see him set up; the wet spots would just appear. Tethering didn't help; he was perfectly happy to pee at my feet. He would pee or poop inside 10 minutes after he had peed or pooped outside. He was so far from housebroken at 5 1/2 months that I was really wondering when he'd finally get a clue. At 6 1/2 months he's finally at the point where I can leave him unsupervised for very short periods, like when I'm scooping the cat box.

Some of the things that seem to have helped:

I clean the heck out of any area he has soaked. Spot cleaning with an enzymatic cleaner is helpful, but I don't think it gets the area truly clean. I follow up with my Bissel rug shampooer.
I try to confine him to the room I'm in or else a crate. He's less likely to mess if he knows he's going to be in close quarters with the mess afterwards.
I started rewarding him with a treat every time he peed or pooped outside. The little stinker started gaming me for more treats by squeezing out as many piles and puddles as he could manage. 
When he was 4 1/2 months, and I had been rewarding him for several weeks, I caught him peeing on the couch. I was so frustrated by this point that I snapped, "no!" He stopped, startled. This could have been a disaster; I might have taught him to hide his peeing. However, since I had already rewarded him many times for peeing outside, he instead looked thoughtful. I didn't make a big deal afterwards, but he clearly realized he had misunderstood the rules.
Simple maturity. He is now practicing lifting his leg like a big dog. With the urge to mark comes a drive to conserve marking fluid for important statements.


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## Teddy’s mom (May 20, 2020)

Puppy Blues r real!!! Teddy is 6 months today and he celebrated by pooping in the house! WHAAAAAT?! He peed in the house yesterday!! Here he hadnt had an accident in months! Getting to know him..which takes time I know his cues and he gave me none. Just went on my floors!! Nothing about puppies r easy. I can say cause I’m not to far ahead of u is that it will get better. 5 months I feel like there was some reward but then some new challenges. It’s a big responsibility and u r doing it alone..right?! Keep at it! If I’ve made it u can totally make it! For me I think keeping a schedule helped me with taking him out and getting use to it. I say this and HE POOPED IN MY HOUSE TODAY!!


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Teddy’s mom said:


> Puppy Blues r real!!! Teddy is 6 months today and he celebrated by pooping in the house! WHAAAAAT?! He peed in the house yesterday!! Here he hadnt had an accident in months! Getting to know him..which takes time I know his cues and he gave me none. Just went on my floors!! Nothing about puppies r easy. I can say cause I’m not to far ahead of u is that it will get better. 5 months I feel like there was some reward but then some new challenges. It’s a big responsibility and u r doing it alone..right?! Keep at it! If I’ve made it u can totally make it! For me I think keeping a schedule helped me with taking him out and getting use to it. I say this and HE POOPED IN MY HOUSE TODAY!!


We had a little bit of regression at that age too. Once the urge to mark set it Misha seemed uncertain about whether _marking_ in the house was okay. But it only happened a couple times.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Annie was probably considered a difficult to potty train dog. She wasnt reliable until 6 months or so- and regularly excitement peed upon greeting new people and dogs until after that - maybe 8 mo or more? I didnt fuss it- I have the opinion that potty training is easier in older dogs, as their bladder is more developed, and obviously, based on the excitement peeing, Annie's bladder wasnt developed. So I did my best, didnt expect any better, and didnt get upset at myself or her if there was a stray puddle. Besides- in comparison to Trixie, my moms dog, she was a prodigy. Trixie took until over a year to be reasonably reliable, and, at 5 has now finally gone 6 mo without an accident for the first time. 

Basically- hang in there, it gets better. Use this time to focus on socialization and good new experiences, and dont sweat the potty training too much.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

The first thing that jumps out at me, is that you need to adjust your cleaning routine. If you can smell it, Coco can definitely smell it. His nose is telling him that your carpet is a potty.
I don't have carpet anywhere except in one bedroom, and the dogs are not allowed there. But when I did have carpet, to clean we did: soak area in enzyme cleaner, leave for 15-30 min. Then use our the carpet cleaner with hot water (we had the Bissell green machine). Then another spritz of enzyme cleaner and leave to dry.
In your case I would be getting the whole thing steam cleaned, as well as make sure an enzyme cleaner is used during or after. 
Once it's clean, block off access to that carpeted area 100% unless you are walking him through it on leash.
If you don't have an area with easy to clean flooring (tile or vinyl), you might want to think about getting a section of vinyl roll flooring and putting a pen on it to contain him. Make sure your flooring section is bigger than the pen.
This online course is really good to help plan puppy schedules and potty training. Although it's best followed immediately when bringing a pup home, it will still apply for you:








With Open Arms and a Level Head: How to Bring a Puppy Into Your Life


Course Description Prerequisites About This Course You’re excited about getting a puppy, and we’re excited to be part of welcoming your new baby into your life! You might be feeling a touch of jitters along with your excitement, but we’re here to tell you that everything’s going to be OK. We’ve...




madcapuniversity.com





To give you more tips and ideas, it would be helpful to know in which situations he is or isn't successful. Is he crate trained? Does he ever go in his crate? Does he pee outside when you take him out or wait til you get back inside? When he does pee inside, does he run off to do so, or is it related to excitement/submission? Have you tried having him on leash beside you in the house and does he still pee then?
Did the breeder do any initial potty training, or what kind of surfaces was he used to using at the breeder?
I am strongly against using pee pads in the house at all, but if he used them with the breeder it might help to put a pee pad outside where you want him to go. And leave it soiled (just urine of course) so that the smell encourages him to go in the same spot.
I've never made a big production for going potty outside, but it's very important to consider the actions that surround it: puppy should be on leash when you take him out, with minimal interaction, just calmly walk to the potty area. You don't want him to get distracted by playing, sniffing, etc. After a maximum of 5 minutes (I only wait 2 or 3), then potty break is finished. If he has peed, we get to go for a walk or an off-leash play session (something that the pup enjoys). If he has not gone, then we calmly, minimal interaction again, go back inside and pup goes in his crate or pen. Or attached by leash to my waist if that is appropriate, as long as he is at a stage where he will not have an accident in that situation.
Finally, make sure you have looked into possible medical reasons. A UTI is unlikely for a boy pup but still totally possible. Other possibilities are kidney issues, diabetes mellitus, or psychogenic.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

For cleaning messes on hard surfaces so that it eliminates the smell and your dog doesn’t think it’s his potty area, mix 50% vinegar and 50% water. Wipe off pee, spray and wipe dry.

Lots of people use bleach because it has a strong smell, but it’s useless because it disinfects but doesn’t remove the odor.


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## Luluspoo (Jul 27, 2020)

I cannot offer advice on training a poodle since I don't not have one yet and from what I can tell my experience with my toy chi is much different than that of a poodle, but I just popped on in to give a few words of encouragement. Raising a puppy is hard and it is both my favorite and least favorite part of having a dog. It's my favorite because the pup is just so cuddly and cute! There's unlimited playtime and there's just no time like puppy time. But its my least favorite due to what you're going through now and I'm 100% sure this is a problem you'll have with any baby animal (or baby lol). It'll be worth it though. 

Soon this will all be in the past and you'll eventually have a bond with this dog like no other  he or she will be that loyal companion you've always wanted in a dog. You’ll return to your social life soon enough and maybe you'll have to create room for the dog in it too, if you're willing.


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## Raven's Mom (Mar 18, 2014)

My Raven took what I thought was a long time for spoo puppy to train. Many folks were saying their puppy was just months old when they got it, but Raven was 11mo old when she had her last indoor accident. I was faithful about crate training so thankfully we had very little damage in the house but I am telling you I had the crying jags and “what on earth have I done to my life thoughts” quite often that first year!! My mother had raised several breeds including Bouviers (a willful breed) kept telling me she was going to be wonderful dog. Around a year I started seeing it and now at almost 7 I couldnt ask for a better house pet. Please like others have said, take the long view and ”this too shall pass”. I heartily support crating and teathering whenever not actively engaged with the puppy. 
Teri


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## Coconator (Aug 5, 2020)

First and foremost, thank you all for the kind words of encouragement. I'm happy to announce that I've gone about a week without Viola Davis-Snot-Hysterical crying. Accidents? We had one a few day ago but I take full responsibility; I gave him a bowl of ice and didn't take him out for a walk directly after. To answer your questions about what our set-up looked/looks like - When Coco came home, we had a play-pen set up with potty training pads. The first few days I was taking him out every two hours but noticed he was still reliving himself in the pad in between breaks. This is when I decreased the time between potty breaks to every 30minutes to an hour. Still, the peeing on the pads persisted. He was peeing/marking just as frequently, if not more and on occasions would miss the pad entirely. I was tossing pads and mopping my floors about a dozen times a day. To give you an idea of how stressful that was to me I'll let you into a little secret - I'm a neat freak with the nose of a bloodhound. I recognized I had a problem when one day I caught myself cleaning my cleaning supplies and arranging them by function. So you can imagine what Coco's episodes meant to my psyche. lol As if the constant peeing on and outside the pads weren't already a nightmare - Coco was beginning to DESTROY the pads after he had done his business. When would the madness end? Well, when I decided the pads were giving me more stress than relief. Their intended purpose was to be a back-up in the event I couldn't take him out on time. However, the pads posed a huge health risk when he began eating them and people kept telling me they were a terrible idea. I grabbed my mask, wallet, and keys and took a trip to Target in a downpour. I grabbed a gallon of enzyme cleaner, boxes of baking soda, gallons of cleaning supplies, microfiber rags, mops, a bissell carpet cleaner, TWO vacuum cleaners, and the biggest pack of paper towels - and decided my fate as a cleaning machine because potty pads were no longer welcomed into my home. Coco has only had two accidents since removing the pads - both times he tried to tell me he wanted to go but I didn't listen since he had gone out not long before. Both times he had gone outside not even 30 minutes prior. Coco is 4 months today and I'm pleased to say we're up to potty breaks every 4 hours along with after each nap, play time, and drink. I think we've found our footing with the potty training and completely understand there may be some accidents in the future. After all, he is still a baby. 

On to next obstacle - I was told to try to solve one issue at a time to avoid going mad - Coco has been to the vet for emergencies - TWICE. That doesn't include the countless calls I've made to the emergency hotline. When Coco was 13 weeks I woke up to find him and his playpen covered in explosive diarrhea. I immediately knew something was wrong and took him to the vet that same day. They placed him on an antibiotic and probiotic and we began a bland diet. After about a week, his stool began to look somewhat normal, therefore we began the transition back to his kibble. 

Side Note: I feed him the Purina Pro Plan Sport All Life Stages Performance 30/20 along with the Zuke Chicken dog treats for training. I had introduced Canine Carry Outs around the time he fell ill. 

Well, when we began the transition back to his kibble, mixing in the boiled chicken and rice from the bland diet, he began regressing. Now, he had regurgitated his food twice and had diarrhea. At this point, I'm panicking because he isn't getting better. When I take him back to the vet they take x-rays and collect a sample of stool - doctor says that although the x-rays showed a plethora of things puppies might ingest while looking for trouble, he was extremely healthy. They administered fluids, meds for nausea, and Royal Canin GI canned food for 10 days. His stool returned to normal and we didn't have any more issues. We began the transition to his kibble this morning and much to my dismay - Coco's stool was half solid, half runny this afternoon. Just when we had gotten over the potty training hurdle, we run into yet another thing. I never thought I'd say this, but I'll take potty accidents over Coco not feeling well any day. Is Coco going to require expensive, special diet food for the rest of life? I have heard that poodles are prone to having sensitive stomachs.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

What food did your vet recommend? Ours suggested Royal Canin for poodles and we've had no problems. Others here will surely make other suggestions. He may well outgrow these early problems.

Are you telling me that everyone doesn't clean their cleaning supplies and arrange them in an orderly fashion? Next, you'll be intimating that there are people who don't alphabetize their spices. ; )


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

All of the above and one more thing that I didn't see above. It is neuromuscularly not possible for 99%+ of young dogs to resist the need to go when they feel pressure from their bladder or bowel. They may understand the concept of potty only outside sooner, but they won't be able to be reliable for resisting urges to go before 6 months of age in most cases. And one other thing aside from a schedule make sure that unless you have the puppy with eagle eyes on them or tethered they should be crated until you know they understand and are developed enough to execute.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I'm so happy to hear about Coco's (and your!) potty progress.

As for the tummy upset, I'm a little confused as to why you keep returning to that food? It seems like the clear culprit. 

When we brought Peggy home, she would vomit up the Diamond Naturals her breeder gave us. I put her on plain chicken as a "reset" and then switched her food. (Usually it's a good idea to do a slow transition, but I couldn't risk her getting that sick again.)

The vomiting immediately stopped.

Another possible culprit is the Zuke's. I assume they contain vegetable glycerin, which is known to cause loose stools.

I'd immediately transition him to a new high-quality food (Peggy did well on Farmina puppy) and eliminate processed treats. Plain white chicken breast cut into corn-sized pieces is perfect for training and also makes a good food topper. 

Generally speaking, the fewer the ingredients the better.

When choosing a kibble, start with the smallest bag you can buy to ensure Coco tolerates it well. A high-quality food can save you a ton on vet bills, so I wouldn't stress too much about price at this point. Just find something he loves and tolerates well.

Getting Coco good and healthy, and ensuring he's adequately nourished at such a pivotal age, will pay off in the long run. You can experiment with other foods once he's older.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Purina pro plan is suppose to be a high quality food however I tried to add it to my guys diet and he started to have ear problems so back to Victor we went. I personally take my dogs off puppy food t 5 months or don't even use it, per my vets recommendation. He feels puppy food has those bones grow too fast. Maybe just my dog I don't know. But there are many many foods out there. If you choose to transition him to a different kibble, do it slowly. day 1 just add 25% of the new food to the food he is doing well on, do that for the first week as long as he isn'[t having problems. Week 2 add 50%, week3 75% until you go to 100% on week 4. My guy was on Fromm gold puppy, he did well on it but the place to buy it was across town and a pain to get too, plus it is pricey. My other dogs were eating Victor so I just switched him following the slow transition diet. I too would stay away from treats, and use either his kibble or I like Instint toppers to use as treats, I break them in half. They will also get loose stool if you over feed them, so offer him probably a cup to cup n half 2 times a day, if he does well and you think he is gaining properly you can always add a bit more to each meal. I would also have crated him from day one with the use of a divider, much easier for a young pup to learn to hold his bladder a bit longer as it isn't so easy to just squat and let go. LOL I would be taking him out more than 4 hours at 16 weeks, but if he is holding it your doing good. Of course take him out after meals, drinking and play too. Mine learned very quickly but I also didn't give him a lot of opportunity to have mistakes. Now I can take him out in the backyard tell him to potty he will, on command. Don't expect him to be totally trustworthy for quite some time.
I am glad you are both feeling better.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

I concur on trying a different food. I know lots of people feed PPP, but my dogs would get soft stool and smelly gas when I tried it. They did/do much better on Fromm, Royal Canin, Science Diet, or Nutro.
When your vet did the stool sample, was it a basic float or was it sent away to include giardia? If not, I would request that.
In the mean time, keeping him on a probiotic is worth it for the time being. My vets prescribe FortiFlora and I'm pretty sure you can order it from Amazon. You could even try half the recommended dose once he is doing well.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Generally speaking, puppies should be fed three times per day until they reach six months. Keep in mind, too, that serving size can vary dramatically depending on the food you choose, and premium foods will often have smaller serving sizes.

As for puppy formulas, my understanding is they are designed to prevent rapid growth (lower calcium, etc.) so I always assumed they were important for the long-term health of leggy breeds like standard poodles. Peggy's just transitioning now to adult food at almost 15 months, but here's what she's been eating:









FARMINA N&D Ancestral Grain Chicken & Pomegranate Medium & Maxi Puppy Dry Dog Food, 26.5-lb bag - Chewy.com


Buy Farmina N&D Ancestral Grain Chicken & Pomegranate Medium & Maxi Puppy Dry Dog Food, 26.5-lb bag at Chewy.com. FREE shipping and the BEST customer service!




www.chewy.com


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Yuck! That sucks. Annie had/has a very sensitive stomach as a puppy as well. Went through a bunch of foods before finding one that she did well on. - she can't tolerate chicken, and can't tolerate fish. Finding a puppy food that worked was HARD. 

I have always been told to feed puppy food, preferably large breed food, as it is designed to slow growth, provide adequate fat, and provide the correct calcium ratios, with an all life stages food an acceptable alternative.


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

So nice to hear that you are doing better! From what I’ve heard, it is true that if you feed normal puppy (especially small breed) food to a large breed dog, the dog will grow too fast. However, we now have food formulated towards large breed puppies. It is typically my recommendation to say PPP, but since Coco is not doing well on it, I would try the foods mentioned above. In addition, I would also try to find a food with different ingredients than the one you are on, in case he has allergies to something in PPP. One thing to keep in mind, however—don’t ping pong between foods, as this can cause more distress to the dog.


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## Coconator (Aug 5, 2020)

Dianaleez said:


> What food did your vet recommend? Ours suggested Royal Canin for poodles and we've had no problems. Others here will surely make other suggestions. He may well outgrow these early problems.
> 
> Are you telling me that everyone doesn't clean their cleaning supplies and arrange them in an orderly fashion? Next, you'll be intimating that there are people who don't alphabetize their spices. ; )


The vet didn't recommend any specific food and when I mentioned he was on Purina Pro Plan, she commended me on a great pick as her own poodle is a huge fan of PPP. 

Wait. Everyone don't alphabetize their spices? lolol


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## Coconator (Aug 5, 2020)

lily cd re said:


> All of the above and one more thing that I didn't see above. It is neuromuscularly not possible for 99%+ of young dogs to resist the need to go when they feel pressure from their bladder or bowel. They may understand the concept of potty only outside sooner, but they won't be able to be reliable for resisting urges to go before 6 months of age in most cases. And one other thing aside from a schedule make sure that unless you have the puppy with eagle eyes on them or tethered they should be crated until you know they understand and are developed enough to execute.


I have heard several people mention puppies can not resist the urge to go before 6 months of age. I'll definitely keep that in mind. If I'm not able to keep the eagle eyes on him, he's in his play pen. Unfortunately, I couldn't for the life of me get him to go in his crate. About a week after he was home, we received his crate. I combined the crate and the playpen to allow him for moving room when I was home but couldn't keep an eye on him. My, what a nightmare that was. I tried every training method out there. Left the door open, spread treats around, fed him his meals in there, tossed toys and tried to make it a fun place - and nothing. I'm wondering if I'll have to revisit crate training as he may be outgrowing his playpen soon. Or will a bigger play pen suffice? I kind of feel very bad placing him in a crate. Perhaps the crate training failure was more on my end.


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## Coconator (Aug 5, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I'm so happy to hear about Coco's (and your!) potty progress.
> 
> As for the tummy upset, I'm a little confused as to why you keep returning to that food? It seems like the clear culprit.
> 
> ...



Hi ! Thank you! I returned to that particular food because he did so well on in during his first month home. I noticed he started feeling ill when I introduced the treats. I have since gotten rid of Zuke's. 

I will definitely look into a new high-quality food to ensure Coco grows into a healthy, strong boy.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Coconator said:


> Hi ! Thank you! I returned to that particular food because he did so well on in during his first month home. I noticed he started feeling ill when I introduced the treats. I have since gotten rid of Zuke's.
> 
> I will definitely look into a new high-quality food to ensure Coco grows into a healthy, strong boy.


It can be so frustrating figuring this stuff out. I really hope it's just the treats.

My last puppy had bloody diarrhea and horrible stomach upset, and it turned out to be liver treats that was causing it.


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## Coconator (Aug 5, 2020)

Mufar42 said:


> Purina pro plan is suppose to be a high quality food however I tried to add it to my guys diet and he started to have ear problems so back to Victor we went. I personally take my dogs off puppy food t 5 months or don't even use it, per my vets recommendation. He feels puppy food has those bones grow too fast. Maybe just my dog I don't know. But there are many many foods out there. If you choose to transition him to a different kibble, do it slowly. day 1 just add 25% of the new food to the food he is doing well on, do that for the first week as long as he isn'[t having problems. Week 2 add 50%, week3 75% until you go to 100% on week 4. My guy was on Fromm gold puppy, he did well on it but the place to buy it was across town and a pain to get too, plus it is pricey. My other dogs were eating Victor so I just switched him following the slow transition diet. I too would stay away from treats, and use either his kibble or I like Instint toppers to use as treats, I break them in half. They will also get loose stool if you over feed them, so offer him probably a cup to cup n half 2 times a day, if he does well and you think he is gaining properly you can always add a bit more to each meal. I would also have crated him from day one with the use of a divider, much easier for a young pup to learn to hold his bladder a bit longer as it isn't so easy to just squat and let go. LOL I would be taking him out more than 4 hours at 16 weeks, but if he is holding it your doing good. Of course take him out after meals, drinking and play too. Mine learned very quickly but I also didn't give him a lot of opportunity to have mistakes. Now I can take him out in the backyard tell him to potty he will, on command. Don't expect him to be totally trustworthy for quite some time.
> I am glad you are both feeling better.


Thank you for the kind words. I'm glad we're both feeling better too lol I definitely feel your pain on getting Coco on a food that will be either too expensive or not readily available at a local store. I'm sure we'll find the perfect food - I've been researching and reading all day. Now, as far as crating - how long do you keep your paw baby in his crate? Coco has been doing very well in his play pen and I love that he's able to move around - it's like his little penthouse on Palm Beach. I feel that a crate will be a downgrade to a studio in Brooklyn. I'm home due to the pandemic but I know (hopefully) everything will go back to normal and I'll be back to working 8 hour days. 8 hours in a crate seems a bit much. I'd be much more comfortable with him being able to move around while I'm away for long periods of time. I'd love to eventually trust him enough to be free around the house while I'm away.


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## Coconator (Aug 5, 2020)

Starvt said:


> I concur on trying a different food. I know lots of people feed PPP, but my dogs would get soft stool and smelly gas when I tried it. They did/do much better on Fromm, Royal Canin, Science Diet, or Nutro.
> When your vet did the stool sample, was it a basic float or was it sent away to include giardia? If not, I would request that.
> In the mean time, keeping him on a probiotic is worth it for the time being. My vets prescribe FortiFlora and I'm pretty sure you can order it from Amazon. You could even try half the recommended dose once he is doing well.


I'll definitely look into all of those options! Although, I have heard Royal Canin doesn't really have much customer service. But their GI canned food was what got Coco back on track. 

As far as his stool sample, I'm pretty sure it was a basic float but I'll definitely have them repeat it. 

I absolutely loved Fortiflora, on or first trip to the vet on emergency, our vet prescribed Fortiflora. I'll make sure to always keep those on hand.


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## Coconator (Aug 5, 2020)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Yuck! That sucks. Annie had/has a very sensitive stomach as a puppy as well. Went through a bunch of foods before finding one that she did well on. - she can't tolerate chicken, and can't tolerate fish. Finding a puppy food that worked was HARD.
> 
> I have always been told to feed puppy food, preferably large breed food, as it is designed to slow growth, provide adequate fat, and provide the correct calcium ratios, with an all life stages food an acceptable alternative.


Oh no! What does Annie eat? and how long did you try a puppy food before transitioning into another? 

I'm just learning about the different types of puppy foods and the difference between large breed and small breed puppy food. Everyday brings a new lesson.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

_" I feel that a crate will be a downgrade to a studio in Brooklyn. I'm home due to the pandemic but I know (hopefully) everything will go back to normal and I'll be back to working 8 hour days. 8 hours in a crate seems a bit much. I'd be much more comfortable with him being able to move around while I'm away for long periods of time. I'd love to eventually trust him enough to be free around the house while I'm away._

Yes 8 hours in a crate is too long except if its at night sleeping. For me personally leaving a dog 8 hours is not so good either, especially when young, as they will get bored. When you go back to work you may want to consider a pet sitter who can come at least once to take her out for a walk. For me it helps when you crate from the start for housebreaking issues, however it seems you already are making progress with the pen . Its just an option should house breaking not go well. Teaching the dog to use a crate though for me, is a good idea if ever she has to be kenneled at a vet it won't be traumatic. Many on here have a crate and attach the pen to it, leaving the crate door open at least when you start and the dog may go in and out on its own to sleep. I've also done that. There are many different ways and what your already doing is one.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Coconator said:


> I have heard several people mention puppies can not resist the urge to go before 6 months of age. I'll definitely keep that in mind. If I'm not able to keep the eagle eyes on him, he's in his play pen. Unfortunately, I couldn't for the life of me get him to go in his crate. About a week after he was home, we received his crate. I combined the crate and the playpen to allow him for moving room when I was home but couldn't keep an eye on him. My, what a nightmare that was. I tried every training method out there. Left the door open, spread treats around, fed him his meals in there, tossed toys and tried to make it a fun place - and nothing. I'm wondering if I'll have to revisit crate training as he may be outgrowing his playpen soon. Or will a bigger play pen suffice? I kind of feel very bad placing him in a crate. Perhaps the crate training failure was more on my end.


*YES* on going back to the crate training. It will be your best friend if you tough it out and do so. Getting him happy there will be hard but it is the best thing for potty training and it can be useful for anytime you might need it for medical reasons down the road. I crated Lily after she was spayed to enforce rest for an example. All that said, Javelin was a crate train failure and I really was just lucky with that for housebreaking. I had been owrking very hard on getting him to be quiet overnight in the crate with little progress after about 2 weeks when I left him home with Peeves and BF for the weekend to take Lily to a set of trials. Javelin just cried and wailed so much that BF who had to work on Saturday that BF took him out of the crate and put him on the bed so he could sleep. I was pretty upset to find out that had happened even though I also understood completely why BF did it. He physically works hard on his feet, but also has to be able to be clear headed to trouble shoot things. Javelin never slept in that crate in the house ever again and his confinement space was the small 2nd bedroom on our main floor that I use as an office. He is training for performance sport and has to be able to rest quietly in a crate. It took me 2 years of ear splitting howling (yes poodles will howl like hounds), crying like a baby and barking to get him to the point where he can be in a crate without problematic behavior like being reactive to dogs near him. He is finally fine with it if I cover his crate and don't spend a lot of time near his crate talking to people with their own dogs.

You can make this work, but puppies are often super hard. If you look at some of my very old posts about my relationship with Lily as a puppy you will see that we had a true love/hate relationship. She is the light of my life now, but when she was 6, 9, even 15 months old I spent many days thinking having her was the worst mistake I had ever made in my life. Peeves also was hard to deal with at that time (they were puppies together). I don't know whether it was just his innate personality, dumb luck, him being the only puppy with the other dogs being 7 years old or us being just better with him as a pup but Javelin was super easy and never peed or pooped in the house. He chewed some things (and that is another reason to crate young dogs) but otherwise he was great even without a crate. I consider us to have gotten lucky with him.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Coconator said:


> Oh no! What does Annie eat? and how long did you try a puppy food before transitioning into another?
> 
> I'm just learning about the different types of puppy foods and the difference between large breed and small breed puppy food. Everyday brings a new lesson.


Annie ended up on taste of the Wild High Prairie Puppy, and as an adult eats Acana Classic Red. I am celiac and dont haveanything that can cross contaminate my food in the house, so she needs to be on a gluten free food too, which made it more challenging. With the exception of one food that caused immediate throwing up even at tiny amounts (higher in fish), I stuck with and finished one big bag before trying the next, so a bit more than a month. Mostly her symptoms were smelly stool/gas/poor texture, except for fish, which can cause vomitting even with a few kibbles of fish based food. Farmina works too and Annie loves it (we use it as treats) but was more expensive. Oh, and now that she is on a food that works well for her, her nails have stopped splintering.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

A great overview on crate training:





Crate Training: Puppy Owners | Austerlitz German Shepherd Dogs







austerlitzshepherds.com





For me the two biggest things that helped Raffi appreciate his crate, was that the crate (which was in our common living space so he could be with us) had the only available bed. So when he wanted to be comfortable, that's where he went. 
And, having some time every day when a favorite chew (bully stick) was available, again only allowed in his crate. The first time, chew was placed in his crate, he went in to get it, came back out. I gently took it and tossed it back in the crate. Repeated a couple times, then he laid down in the crate to chew. It only took two or three sessions of that. He occasionally needs a reminder but only once.


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## Coconator (Aug 5, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> It can be so frustrating figuring this stuff out. I really hope it's just the treats.
> 
> My last puppy had bloody diarrhea and horrible stomach upset, and it turned out to be liver treats that was causing it.


 Peggy, turns out you were right about the Purina Pro Plan being the culprit. Coco’s bowel movements were perfect and completely back to normal. The moment we began transitioning from Royal Canin GI food to the PPP kibble, his still began to soften - today I even found a drop of blood in his stool. I immediately tossed the food and am on my way to getting him Royal Canin for puppies. Fortunately for my nerves he is his normal, happy self and hasn’t lost his appetite. Not sure what went wrong - his kibble worked perfectly for the first month he was home. But now there’s no denying it’s been making Coco sick.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Coconator said:


> Peggy, turns out you were right about the Purina Pro Plan being the culprit. Coco’s bowel movements were perfect and completely back to normal. The moment we began transitioning from Royal Canin GI food to the PPP kibble, his still began to soften - today I even found a drop of blood in his stool. I immediately tossed the food and am on my way to getting him Royal Canin for puppies. Fortunately for my nerves he is his normal, happy self and hasn’t lost his appetite. Not sure what went wrong - his kibble worked perfectly for the first month he was home. But now there’s no denying it’s been making Coco sick.


This is great news! Some owners struggle for years (while their poor dogs struggle, too) and never really figure it out.

I'd write out the list of ingredients, one per line, clearly and boldly, and stick it somewhere for easy reference. Cross out any that match _exactly_ any of the Royal Canin ingredients. Over time, cross out any additional that he seems to tolerate well in other treats or foods (but again, only if they match exactly). 

You'll be glad you did this. Allergens can be super sneaky, and if you can pin them down precisely, life with Coco will be much happier for all.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

(Keep in mind that it could also be fat, fibre, or protein content and not a specific ingredient. So find those numbers for Pro Plan vs. Royal Canin and jot them down, too, for easy future reference. My Peggy notes have been a lifesaver!)


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

Asta had a real problem with ProPlanPlus - constipation and then full blown runs. He was miserable. Lucky I figured out that it was the PPP that was the problem. I now feed him ScienceDIet Light. This may not be so highly from the dogadvisor web site - but he is doing so well on it that it is his regular food now. He eats well on it, his skin and coat look much better. Plus now sometimes he is okay with me not doing the labour intensive coaxing to eat.
If Royal is working for you I would feed him that and see ho he does.


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## Raven's Mom (Mar 18, 2014)

My boy did not do well on the ProPlan sensitive salmon which my girl had been on for years. He had chronic loose stools so I had to switch back to his original food, which like Mufar42, was Victor hog protein. His stool issues cleared up immediately. I have now switched Raven to it too so I am not buying 2 doods anymore-yay!


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