# Dog to dog obedience



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

princess83 said:


> Starting from the beginning... I have a 4 yo minipoo and hes always stayed home while we worked, we have 8 acres and my chihuahua and minipoo were always loose. On April 1st, something killed my chihuahua. My minipoo has been down and upset. I started taking him to my mom during the days and when I get off work we been going to the park to walk/jog the track. Baseball and softball has started so more people are around and bring their dogs as well. Hes never really been around any dogs except ours. I am wanting to know some basic commands to get him to be ok around other dogs so we can continue to go to the park.
> 
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I’m sorry about your Chihuahua. It’s so hard losing a beloved dog. Was he killed by abother animal around your house ?

Regarding your dog being other dogs, I don’t think it involves learning any k8nd of special command. Socializing is not like obedience. If you start bringing your dog more andmore to the park, he will get used to all the activity and learn to tolerate other dogs and people better.

Some dogs never really like playing with other dogs. And it’s okay too, you can’t really force it. You can expect good manners, like no barking and growling when he sees other dogs, but some dogs just like to be left alone.

A good way to socialize your dog with other dogs and people is going in an enclosed area with another dog his size or smaller and se how he does. Pick a very mellow type dog to start with. Let them interact on the leash first, and if you see they like esch other, let them play loose (keep the leash on your dog to make it easier to catch him if his recall isn’t perfect).

If you don’t know how to read dog’s body language well (some people think dogs are fighting when they’re just play posturing), check on youtube, there are good videos. Make sure it’s a good source though, a good trainer with serious credentials.

Oh, and your dog is most probably grieving the loss of his friend and will need time to adjust. You have to take that into consideration aw well.

I’m sure you’ll have fun with your dog.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

If you have friends with dogs, I would invite them over maybe one at a time first and see how the dogs react. That is how I got my girls acclimated to other dogs, while keeping them as mentioned on a lease at first. I am now up to 12 dog coming to parties and all is fine, some want left alone while others want to play, but do dog fighting.

And yes your dog is most likely broken hearted do the the loss of your other dog. I had a matched set of Dobs the when the female died, the male lived about 60 days or less and was 5 vet said he died from a broken heart missing his friend. I alway keep 2 then wind up with 3 then one starts going downhill.


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## princess83 (Jul 21, 2018)

Dechi said:


> I’m sorry about your Chihuahua. It’s so hard losing a beloved dog. Was he killed by abother animal around your house ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We're not 100% sure what it was. Possibilities could be another neighboring dog or coyote.
He listen to us very well at home unless there is a neighbor dog or deer around, he doesn't want to listen and come back. I've been trying to work more and more on him not even going after a deer. 
I absolutely believe he is still grieving. He has seemed so lost without her. So we have been giving him lots of extra attention to help cope. 
I'll continue to take him to the park and let him see others but keep my distance until I feel he is comfortable to get closer.

I hate hes heart broken. He literally stays at my feet at all times and as soon as I get to my moms to pick him up hes extremely excited to see me. He has slacked up eating and that is a concern for me. I know its depression. So when I visit the vet tomorrow I'll see if they have any suggestions on what I can try to help with that part. Its been a rough couple of weeks and it breaks my heart that he's not showing as much as every because of the situation. 

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## princess83 (Jul 21, 2018)

glorybeecosta said:


> If you have friends with dogs, I would invite them over maybe one at a time first and see how the dogs react. That is how I got my girls acclimated to other dogs, while keeping them as mentioned on a lease at first. I am now up to 12 dog coming to parties and all is fine, some want left alone while others want to play, but do dog fighting.
> 
> And yes your dog is most likely broken hearted do the the loss of your other dog. I had a matched set of Dobs the when the female died, the male lived about 60 days or less and was 5 vet said he died from a broken heart missing his friend. I alway keep 2 then wind up with 3 then one starts going downhill.


I have one friend with a dog. But theirs is a German shepherd I've thought about it, but afraid he'll be intimidated due to size. I did allow him to be close to one pup at the park Thursday and he was really anxious. I heard a couple low growls and told him be good. I left on a good note with that pup and gave. Treat. I'd like to find another treat that's good for rewards because the ones I have get really hard fast. 

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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I use chewy soft treats for special things my girls do, they like them better than the hard ones. My friends have all small dogs, behsawn freeze, shi sue (don't know correct spelling) and 7 toy poodles and couple other mixed small ones. the large dog could hurt your accidently due to size. Just give him the additional attention, how long has it been?


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## princess83 (Jul 21, 2018)

glorybeecosta said:


> I use chewy soft treats for special things my girls do, they like them better than the hard ones. My friends have all small dogs, behsawn freeze, shi sue (don't know correct spelling) and 7 toy poodles and couple other mixed small ones. the large dog could hurt your accidently due to size. Just give him the additional attention, how long has it been?


I've actually been looking on chewy.com for treats and possibly changing dog foods as well. This happened on April 1st so it's been 2 weeks. My youngest son actually stayed at my mom's and missed school for 2 days because he was scared of leaving him without one of us around until he got used to it. She baby sits younger kids and he gets so much attention there as well. He's been doing great around people. It worries me so much he'll get to depressed. 

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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I don’t know if you plan on having another dog soon, or one day, but it might be something that would help if you choose a dog that is a good fit for both your dog and your family.

About dogs not coming back when you let them loose, I’ve always used the same technique and it worked with all my dogs. You need to take him in a safe enclosed area to do this. Walk with your dog off leash, and get him used to you changing directions. He will want to follow you. Don’t give a firm command that he won’t obey, but use a sound, or something to say that you will always use to make him follow.

If he goes too far, never go after him. Just remain where you are and let him come back. If it’s taking too long, walk the other way, slowly. He will see you disappear and what to follow you.

Once you’ve been doing this for a while, in different places, without other dogs, you can try it where there is a dog. Let him play, and when you feel it’s enough, leave and do your usual sound or word. He might not come, but keep walking slowly. If he’s really not coming, you’ll need to go get him and convince him (leaving the lessh on the dog helps). I find that before 2 years old, it’s hard for a dog but after a while they’re mature enough to follow you wven when there is a lot of fun going on.

The more you practice, the faster he will improve.


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## princess83 (Jul 21, 2018)

Dechi said:


> I don’t know if you plan on having another dog soon, or one day, but it might be something that would help if you choose a dog that is a good fit for both your dog and your family.
> 
> About dogs not coming back when you let them loose, I’ve always used the same technique and it worked with all my dogs. You need to take him in a safe enclosed area to do this. Walk with your dog off leash, and get him used to you changing directions. He will want to follow you. Don’t give a firm command that he won’t obey, but use a sound, or something to say that you will always use to make him follow.
> 
> ...


He stays by my side usually , unless there is a distraction. Yesterday we were outside and he loves chasing deer, I kept his attention on me only and he wasnt even phased seeing them, which is huge for him. I thought about buying a clicker only for the come command. 
My youngest and I are the only one who really work on training and focusing all the attention to him. My older boy and DH dont put time into him. 
We have discussed getting another dog one day. We wont go to anything smaller now. It will have to be minipoo size and bigger. So we've discussed another poodle or a GSD. Of course it will be sometime before we actually do it. We want to make sure it's a perfect fit. 

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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I am sorry about your chi being killed. That is very sad.


Your mpoo most certainly is still grieving his part of the loss. He may also be fearful of being attacked if he saw or heard the attack on your chi.


Do I understand correctly that they were free outside while you were at work? I have a fenced yard, but would never think of leaving any of our dogs loose in the yard if one of us wasn't home. I don't worry much about predators with ours, but I would worry about annoying my neighbors or having someone take one of my dogs. My mom never leaves her small mpoo outside unattended because she worries about overhead predators trying to grab him.


Also not to be hard on you while you are still so upset by what has happened, but I don't think a dog should be loose if it doesn't have a rock solid recall. I can call all three of my dogs off loose chickens and cats running across the street and that is what I mean by rock solid recall.


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## princess83 (Jul 21, 2018)

lily cd re said:


> I am sorry about your chi being killed. That is very sad.
> 
> 
> Your mpoo most certainly is still grieving his part of the loss. He may also be fearful of being attacked if he saw or heard the attack on your chi.
> ...


I believe he is still grieving. He don't leave our side at all now.
I don't worry about overheard predators here. I've never seen anything bigger then regular birds fly around. 
Here at the house we have no full time close neighbors with in a 100 acre proximity. He chases deer out of the yard, but knows our property line as well and stops at it when he reaches the edge. Just don't recall until he gets to the edge, which I need him to recall when I say. Not allow him to go any further then feet from me when they are around. He don't leave the property line without one of us with him. Once in a great while we have a neighbor dog venture our way, but not recently since we had the chi spayed. We live in the country where the only people that come back here is one family that lives in the city and they come like three times a year. They treat him like one of there own dogs. 
But since this has happened hes not allowed the freedom he once had. I'm too worried it could have been a coyote or even a bear.
Also, your fine not being hard. I respect all opinions. He's at my mom's during the day now and home with us of evenings. No chances will be taken again. 

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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I am so very sorry for your loss. That has to be absolutely heart breaking...devastating. And your other dog will need time too, to get over this.

My toy poodles do not go out in the yard even to go wee wee without me being right with them. There are coyotes everywhere and eagles too. And I have a 6 foot, solid fence. Off leash, they MUST have a rock solid recall plus they've been taught not to go very far ahead...they come back to "check in" after going ahead maybe 15 - 20 ft. Little dogs are incredibly vulnerable as you sadly found out.

Pretty much...if your dog didn't socialize with other dogs when he was a VERY young baby...like up to about 3-4 months, he may not be that enthralled with them now. You can't _command_ a dog to go play with other dogs if they're not into it. You can try a little introduction to a little dog you know to be tolerant and gentle, but if he doesn't love them, that's okay. I have one that mostly likes people and another that likes both all right but still gravitates toward people more. Matisse has him moments when he likes to play with another dog but he doesn't go ape over every dog he sees. Maurice really loves children and adults the most. Human ones. Neither is afraid of or really dislikes other dogs though. If your dog is scared or really uncomfortable, if he didn't have ample socialization during the critical period of birth to about 3-4 months of age, I'd not force him. That could stress him out too much. Again, you can try gradually conditioning him by making positive associations with other dogs from a comfortable distance. Or just see if one or two dogs he is comfortable with.


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## princess83 (Jul 21, 2018)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I am so very sorry for your loss. That has to be absolutely heart breaking...devastating. And your other dog will need time too, to get over this.
> 
> My toy poodles do not go out in the yard even to go wee wee without me being right with them. There are coyotes everywhere and eagles too. And I have a 6 foot, solid fence. Off leash, they MUST have a rock solid recall plus they've been taught not to go very far ahead...they come back to "check in" after going ahead maybe 15 - 20 ft. Little dogs are incredibly vulnerable as you sadly found out.
> 
> Pretty much...if your dog didn't socialize with other dogs when he was a VERY young baby...like up to about 3-4 months, he may not be that enthralled with them now. You can't _command_ a dog to go play with other dogs if they're not into it. You can try a little introduction to a little dog you know to be tolerant and gentle, but if he doesn't love them, that's okay. I have one that mostly likes people and another that likes both all right but still gravitates toward people more. Matisse has him moments when he likes to play with another dog but he doesn't go ape over every dog he sees. Maurice really loves children and adults the most. Human ones. Neither is afraid of or really dislikes other dogs though. If your dog is scared or really uncomfortable, if he didn't have ample socialization during the critical period of birth to about 3-4 months of age, I'd not force him. That could stress him out too much. Again, you can try gradually conditioning him by making positive associations with other dogs from a comfortable distance. Or just see if one or two dogs he is comfortable with.


I absolutely don't want to force him towards other dogs. But I am going to work on him being ok at the park while we walk if we see other dogs. Humans he hasn't ever had an issue with. Anyone to give him attention he's all about that! I've been carrying treats with so I can praise. I'm hoping I'm doing it right. I worry if I treat at the wrong moment or not. We use a harness, but want a better quality one. We also frequent dirt bike races and I'd like to eventually be able to take him with us. One step at a time. Get him used to the park and others before I venture to the races. 

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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

princess83 said:


> I absolutely don't want to force him towards other dogs. But I am going to work on him being ok at the park while we walk if we see other dogs. Humans he hasn't ever had an issue with. Anyone to give him attention he's all about that! I've been carrying treats with so I can praise. I'm hoping I'm doing it right. I worry if I treat at the wrong moment or not. We use a harness, but want a better quality one. We also frequent dirt bike races and I'd like to eventually be able to take him with us. One step at a time. Get him used to the park and others before I venture to the races.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J727R4 using Tapatalk


I think you're doing it just right. The timing doesn't matter in this case where you're trying to make a good association with other dogs. It doesn't matter about his behavior. So, the presence of dogs = a rain storm of treats. When I used the word, "force" I couldn't quite imagine you forcing your dog. I just was confused I guess by the words, "obedience" and "command." Somehow I must have interpreted that to mean the dog will learn a command to be obedient and go enjoy other dogs. lol. Okay...I see what you mean now. And how you describe conditioning him gradually...a comfortable distance for him, treats when he sees other dogs at that comfortable distance and then working gradually, over time toward a little more sounds just right. And seeing if he'd like just one play mate that you know to be gentle and tolerant.


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## princess83 (Jul 21, 2018)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I think you're doing it just right. The timing doesn't matter in this case where you're trying to make a good association with other dogs. It doesn't matter about his behavior. So, the presence of dogs = a rain storm of treats. When I used the word, "force" I couldn't quite imagine you forcing your dog. I just was confused I guess by the words, "obedience" and "command." Somehow I must have interpreted that to mean the dog will learn a command to be obedient and go enjoy other dogs. lol. Okay...I see what you mean now. And how you describe conditioning him gradually...a comfortable distance for him, treats when he sees other dogs at that comfortable distance and then working gradually, over time toward a little more sounds just right. And seeing if he'd like just one play mate that you know to be gentle and tolerant.


I'm sorry I most definitely didn't use proper word usage! But yes gradually introducing him and praises when he sees them and no reaction. We always praise, but this is different for him. So it is a change and I know change effects humans and dogs. I'll continue to do as we are and work our way to being around others. 

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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Praise is marginal as a reinforcer. I recommend high value treats in association with something that your adult dog has not had much experience with or something he doesn't like very much. Something stupendous should be paired with the other dogs, regardless of his reaction or behavior. Try to reinforce at a distance where he won't likely react...so he sees the dogs, perks up his ears but before he reacts strongly. This tells him that the best thing evarrrrr better than praise happens when dogs are around. I always use tiny, pea sized treats but very, very tasty ones. (real meat, cheese bits, hot dogs...that sort of thing) Show him that the presence of other dogs is a terrific thing. Dogs learn by association. They get praise and attention anyhow so while they like it, it may not raise the odds significantly that the dog will repeat that which you hope he will. He may not even know what the attention/praise is for since he gets that anyhow. (I presume) You want your reinforcer to be unquestionably paired with the stimuli that you're trying to make into a good thing.


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## princess83 (Jul 21, 2018)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Praise is marginal as a reinforcer. I recommend high value treats in association with something that your adult dog has not had much experience with or something he doesn't like very much. Something stupendous should be paired with the other dogs, regardless of his reaction or behavior. Try to reinforce at a distance where he won't likely react...so he sees the dogs, perks up his ears but before he reacts strongly. This tells him that the best thing evarrrrr better than praise happens when dogs are around. I always use tiny, pea sized treats but very, very tasty ones. (real meat, cheese bits, hot dogs...that sort of thing) Show him that the presence of other dogs is a terrific thing. Dogs learn by association. They get praise and attention anyhow so while they like it, it may not raise the odds significantly that the dog will repeat that which you hope he will. He may not even know what the attention/praise is for since he gets that anyhow. (I presume) You want your reinforcer to be unquestionably paired with the stimuli that you're trying to make into a good thing.


Completely makes sense! Yes! Tasty treats. I'll make sure I only use those for this part. Thank you all so much for advice! I accept all criticism because we can only learn from it. 

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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Has he never been around other dogs? Not ever? So that you don't know how he responds to seeing them? It could be that he'll just be curious and interested and not afraid, shy or reactive. What I'm getting at though, is when you take him near a park or somewhere where there are other dogs, it might your natural tendency to be anticipating a problem. You'll very subtly tense up. You might talk to your dog to reassure him, but your voice will have a tension or sound of nervousness in it. (possibly...I don't know you) Dogs are incredibly intuitive or rather they can pick up on the tiniest nuances of change in our demeanor, voice, look etc. So, just to warn you to become a really good actress and don't let on if you're the slightest bit unsure, anticipating trouble, nervous etc...because all that can make your dog think there is indeed something scary that is about to happen and can influence his response big time. It may be that he has no problem at all and is perfectly comfortable when he sees other dogs. Who knows for sure? We're anticipating because he's had no socialization with them so there's a good chance he'll react so it's nice to be prepared. But....fear not. lol. He may be okay with it.

Here is a video of one idea...one method to get some focus on you... to assist in heading off or dissipating any trepidation and reactivity he may experience. There are lots of ways but I just thought this was pretty good: (Mind you...this is IF you wind up getting too close to a dog or you're passing by one. You shouldn't need to go through this getting his attention on you too much when you have ample distance between you and another dog when you're conditioning him as was previously talked about) But it's bound to come up at some point where a dog is closer to you than you wanted and here's a great way to get some focus on you.






_HOWEVER_....I personally prefer to train the dog to not need to transfer that focus onto me rather than face his "fears" or whatever is causing the reactivity. I prefer that the dog learns that seeing another dog or human or whatever is the trigger for his reactivity is okay...that he can see it and still go on about his walk safely and enjoyably. I want the dog to understand the connection between the reinforcer and the trigger...to make no mistake about the predictability that seeing another dog _IS_ a good thing. So, I came upon this video. This gal is my #1 favorite online trainer that I've ever seen. (If you're not sure what she's talking about when she talks about "clicking," that is referring to clicker training, which you can explore also. If you're interested look through more of Kiko pup's videos. Or google Karen Pryor...there is a lot of info online or ask questions here.) Check this out:


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## princess83 (Jul 21, 2018)

He has really only been around our dogs at the house and he has seen them at the park and we were very close to one I would let them associate for a few minutes no touching just 6 or 12 inch apart and then I went on gave him a treat and walked away. He had a couple of very low growls and I told him no he went back to looking at the pup and was okay at the moment. I send let's go 2 him and walk to where we were sitting because there was a ball game going on that my niece was playing in. I'm definitely going to check those videos out when I get off work this afternoon. Thank you very much!

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## princess83 (Jul 21, 2018)

I should say that is the closest he's been to a dog other then ours. 

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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

princess83 said:


> He has really only been around our dogs at the house and he has seen them at the park and we were very close to one I would let them associate for a few minutes no touching just 6 or 12 inch apart and then I went on gave him a treat and walked away. He had a couple of very low growls and I told him no he went back to looking at the pup and was okay at the moment. I send let's go 2 him and walk to where we were sitting because there was a ball game going on that my niece was playing in. I'm definitely going to check those videos out when I get off work this afternoon. Thank you very much!
> 
> Sent from my SM-J727R4 using Tapatalk


Well, usually a growl like that is on account of fear. And you don't want to tell him "no" or scold him in any way if he growls or reacts because that is merely a communication that he growls. And if he becomes afraid of growling because of being supressed, his behavior will likely escalate and at some point down the road, he may explode and bite and skip the growl. It sounds like you got too close to a dog too soon. So work with him at a distance at which he is not likely to be fearful or reactive. Reinforce the way Kiko pup explains in that video. 

His success at getting use to and comfortable with other dogs may be pretty slim because of being isolated from them, like I said during the first 3 or 4 months of his life. This critical socialization period is so important with ALL animals, including us that when it is missed, when the window closes, it's nearly impossible to make a lot of progress...some people get things somewhat better though. 

It's a period during development whereby a young animal needs to figure out what is safe and what is dangerous. If he's gotten along all right so far without something, then he pushes that aside as nothing he needs to survive. For instance, if the puppy never sees another dog, he has no use for them later in life because he's survived this long without. Who needs 'em? Another dog is not part of his repertoire of safe things. Dangerous things go in the "box" of things to stay away from and that's what happens to things, dogs, people that the puppy has had no exposure to. Safe things are those things which he uses in day to day life and has had plenty of exposure to. He has those needed things in his life and therefore, they're saved in the "box" of safe things. For instance, in your dog's case, you. Or the lawn or the other dog in your household or the TV blaring and whatever else he's experienced and been exposed to happily since day one. He feels safe with all the things. 

At 14-16 weeks of age, this "window" (birth to about 3-4 months) of figuring out safe and dangerous closes so a baby animal can get on with the business of survival and living into adulthood that can reproduce and pass on his survival genes. (instinct) If that weren't the case, you'd have adult deer walking right up to you in the deep forest. So, that's a simplified, nutshell version of the early critical socialization period or sometimes called the sensitive period.

Here is an informative article about socialization from a wonderful behaviorist, Sophia Yin (RIP) who tragically took her own life. She was always my hero...so smart and expert in her field.

https://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/puppy-socialization-stop-fear-before-it-starts/

Of course, your dog is an adult so this is especially good to learn about if you ever get another puppy.

But since your dog is an adult, you can try counter conditioning in a positive reinforcement way like described. But if your dog doesn't make much headway and he's uneasy, frightened, defensive (might bite out of fear) you'd be best to leave him in his comfort zone at home and forget taking him to ball games. Those can be pretty noisy and stressful even for relatively well socialized dogs. At his age, I'd give it a try if he were my dog as far as helping him get more comfortable. I'd play it by ear. And if it was too difficult, I'd figure it isn't worth it and let him live out his life in his comfort zone that he's known all this time.


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## princess83 (Jul 21, 2018)

I'm thinking maybe when he growled the other day it may be because I was there and he could sense my fear of his reaction. I went to pick him up at the groomers this evening and he was playing with other dogs. So that is positive for us. As soo. As he saw me the other dogs became nonexistent. 
I'm charging my phone one and can't wait to see the videos posted. 

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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Oh! How neat that he had such fun at the groomers. Is this his first visit to a groomer or has he seen dogs before in this context? I had the idea he's never seen another dog besides the one he lives with. LOL. Okay, this is really very cool! And encouraging. Happy dance. :dancing:


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## princess83 (Jul 21, 2018)

Hes been with the same groomer for a while now, but she moved away and is only doing a certain number of her previous clientele. He was one that gets to keep her! She used to do it out of her own shop, but moved to a vets office twice a week. So he sees more dogs there. I was as excited to see him as he was me. She said before he is always anxious when I leave. My mom dropped him off because he needed updated shots today. 
I had her ask them specific questions for me. And they suggested purina one and that it is possibly depression and gove lot of love and attention. They suggested neutering him. But I'm not sure. Is there any benefits to it? 

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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Awww...it sounds pretty good. No doubt he'll get over his depression, hopefully pretty soon.

There have been oodles of neutering and spay threads discussing the pros and cons. See what you can find doing a forum search for that. I don't see personally, any reason to neuter as long as he's not marking in the house and as long as his behavior is fine. In tact dogs aren't necessarily any more aggressive than neutered and sometimes it's the other way around. I wouldn't rush into it until you do your research. If you let your dog wander though or he gets loose and impregnates a free roaming female who's in heat, that would be irresponsible...there are sooooo many unwanted puppies in this world. So, it depends on your life style too. See what you can find doing a search. And you can even Google pros and cons etc.


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## princess83 (Jul 21, 2018)

I absolutely agree. I will do a search. Just couldn't see why she'd recommend that. I have no plans on him breeding and hes very good in the house. 
He no longer has the freedom he once had, but hes so much happier at my moms I think. 
He hasn't left my side once this evening since I picked him up. Hes so attached and such a big baby! 

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## princess83 (Jul 21, 2018)

This is my Teddy









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