# Frog Legged Shepards



## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

I've never been a big fan of GSDs. They used to be a good looking breed... and loyal and trainable. But the new breed standards have collapsed their hindquarters to something that simply propels their bodies with little leaps... like frogs. 

I'm pleased to see that the people in Europe are starting to agree.

Video: Crufts plunged into cruelty row over 'deformed' German Shepherd - Telegraph


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

How can ANYONE think that's a great specimen of the breed??

German Shepherd Dog Council of Australia

Take a look at the picture on the left. This is what they should STILL look like. I think people started to bring that outside rear leg up toward the belly vs just under the hip, to give it that dramatic 'low rider' appearance, and its' all gone down hill since then.

I hate it. 

My other top "what are they thinking???" breed is the bulldog. Poor, deformed face, breaks my heart.

EDIT to add: 

I showed dogs in the early 2000s. I was in bichons and toy poodles, but I was mentored by a lady who had spoos. 

I went to a dog show a couple years ago and was surprised to see how extreme the rear ends of the poodles have become! They, too have rear feet stacked way too far behind their hipline, and that makes a sloping top line. Yes, very dramatic and pretty to look at, but not correct, by any means. Their front ends have also turned into more of a terrier front, with less shoulder layback, which means more paddling/high stepping in front. Looks flashy and is eye catching, but not efficient or correct when applied to the breed standard. 

In that time I've also noticed that bichons went from "1/3 longer than tall" (per the breed standard) to short-backed, long legged, slighter boned dogs. They are more poodly than bichonly! 
Soap box, yes!


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## kayla_baxter (Jul 17, 2015)

The breed standard hasn't changed at all, it still calls for a flat back and states that roached or sloping backs are to be considered serious faults. It's the judges that are putting these dogs up that are the problem. If judges started withholding ribbons breeders would start breeding for dogs that actually meet the standard. 


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## kayla_baxter (Jul 17, 2015)

Here is the section in the CKC breed standard on top line, it's virtually the same in the AKC and FCI standards:









A far cry from what was is typically seen in the ring. 


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Thank you for posting the breed standard. It's a far, far cry from the Crufts Champ.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

The poor dog was both malformed to a shape that too many judges and breeders have come to think of as "correct", and stressed beyond endurance by the whole experience. The UK Kennel Club have been promising to sort this issue for years (along with dogs too flat faced to breath, dogs with eyelids so droopy their eyes are permanently inflamed, etc, etc) but in the end they leave it to the breed clubs rather than risk losing the income from registrations. And if the breed clubs refuse to admit that there is an issue, the poor dogs continue to suffer - her owner insists that she is beautiful, and perfectly healthy. Conformation showing in the UK is becoming not merely a minority sport, but anathema to many dog lovers...


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

kayla_baxter said:


> The breed standard hasn't changed at all, it still calls for a flat back and states that roached or sloping backs are to be considered serious faults. It's the judges that are putting these dogs up that are the problem. If judges started withholding ribbons breeders would start breeding for dogs that actually meet the standard.


Thanks for that. 

I had no idea why these dogs seemed to be looking more and more crippled each year. I just know it's a real shame. Charging, pulling, lunging, running after a perp *or whatever* they don't look too bad. So I can see why they would feature that gait in the ring. But they sure don't walk well...  

I'm a sucker for a well formed dog. At the park, I love them all. And the old, proud GSD profile is a classic. I haven't been to our ABIDS lately but the last I saw, the King Shepherds still have that shape. I hope they keep it!

I have in mind that the Bulldog people are already on the problems in their breed. GSDs I haven't heard anything. It would probably be interesting to pop into their two forums at the bottom of the page and see if either of them are talking about it.


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## kayla_baxter (Jul 17, 2015)

The Russian originated East European Shepherd is basically like a GSD from a hundred years ago. Still a functional dog used by the military. 










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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Not all GSDs look like the sad specimens put up by conformation judges.

Here is some proof. The first pic of of three working GSDs who are associated with the county police department. The others are pictures of Peeves from various angles,none of which show him stacked, but which all show that he has a relatively level top line, a well developed head and that he doesn't stand on his hocks. fjm a roach back is not necessarily a fault in the eyes of some German breeders BTW.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

That's an outrage what they've done to GSDs. I've been noticing it for years now....that excessive sloping. It's hideous and a real cruelty. My first shepherd was very muscular and strong, large boned...lots of bone... I don't have any photos of him. He looked more like Rin Tin Tin. My last GSD was also sturdy and strong and just slightly sloping in the croup. His reach was very good but never that weak-hocked/cow hocked, hocks on the ground appearance of many of today's shepherds. Without going through snap shots and scanning and all that these are what I have already on my computer...not very telling photos. But he was sound and strong. These dogs today just look weak and they couldn't cover miles of territory like the old fashion GSDs. It's really a crime what they've done to them.

Ajax is a puppy here...I forget just how old but very young. It's hard to see his confirmation but he grew up to be very handsome...came from a well respected breeder, Von Naussau. You'll see we didn't worry about knocking the kids around a little bit. lol.






Such great dogs with kids



So that's what a GSD should look like imo...and the other pics...enough slope in the croup to help with good reach. They should be able to cover a lot of ground with little effort being that they're sheep herding dogs. Someone needs to do something to turn things around for these poor, deformed looking dogs that can barely make it around a dog show ring. Stupid judges. Stupid frivolity in some of these matters. It really angers me!:angry:


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

https://www.google.com/search?q=rin...UIBygB&biw=1242&bih=585#imgrc=nd_GhMwuyctfvM:

There. Look at those! That's what I'm talkin' about!:amen:


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Ajax is a puppy here...I forget just how old but very young. It's hard to see his confirmation but he grew up to be very handsome...came from a well respected breeder, Von Naussau. You'll see we didn't worry about knocking the kids around a little bit. lol.
> 
> 
> Such great dogs with kids


What a great dog and a great family shot! Your daughter is dressed how my sister and I were, so we must be around the same age


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

I suspect this is part of the reason that more and more police departments and other protection/working dog agencies are moving to Belgian Malinois over German Shepherds. Though it is definitely less pronounced in working GSDs rather than conformation.

Show "trends" like this can really do a number on a breed. Really makes you question whether we should see conformation breeders as the best custodians of our breeds.

For another example, look at historical photos of the Pekingese vs the Westminster winner from a few years ago. They've always been low to the ground and fluffy, but they used to be able to walk normally.


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## Beaches (Jan 25, 2014)

Gorgeous dog PB and a lovely family photo. Nice to put a face to your name, yes I realize it was a "couple of years" ago. Lol. Hugs.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I forget who wrote this, but I had it written down............

"A conformation dog show is not a comparison of each dog to another, but a comparison of each dog to a JUDGES mental image of the ideal breed type, as outlined in the individual breed's breed standard."


Too bad judges all seem to have a different way of understanding a breed standard..............JMO


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Thin, long, elegant, high stepping legs and fine muzzles on spoos?

= ligament problems and teeth misalignment.

Eric


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

Shamrockmommy said:


> In that time I've also noticed that bichons went from "1/3 longer than tall" (per the breed standard) to short-backed, long legged, slighter boned dogs. They are more poodly than bichonly!


That's funny, up in here all the Bichons I see who are groomed show-worthy seem to be longer and longer each passing year, ... Bichon Frisé? More like Petit Basset Bichon Frisé... :rant:


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## Summerhouse (Jun 12, 2015)

On a breeders forum (all breeds) the bitch was discussed and they came to the conclusion that she was also in season which is why the male wasn't behaving well in the ring and why she looked uncomfortable.

They all agreed the judge was from "old" stock who wasn't inclined to change his ways or views on the breed.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Pekes from 1964 - what a (horrible) difference 50 years can make!
Racing Pekes - British Pathé


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

zooeysmom said:


> What a great dog and a great family shot! Your daughter is dressed how my sister and I were, so we must be around the same age




Thanks Zooeysmom...You're quite observant. My daughter is just about 36. He _was _an amazing dog...so sweet with people and especially loving and protective toward kids...any kids. We had some piglets raised by someone else on their property and we were visiting once with Ajax. (Pro: Ah-yax sort of) and the piglets got out of their area and started running off. Ajax, with no particular herding training ran after them, and shouldered them back toward and then into the fenced area. He was so smart and loyal. 

Beaches...yep, quite a few years ago. Oy! LOL. I sure don't look like that anymore. Scary!:afraid:


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## PoodleDreaming (Jun 10, 2015)

It seems to be mostly confirmation bred dogs that are being bred so extremely. 

Lots of the working shepherds I've seen and most of the whites look fine.





































I'm pretty pleased with the structure of this silly girl, especially for a shelter dog.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

PoodleDreaming said:


> It seems to be mostly confirmation bred dogs that are being bred so extremely.
> 
> Lots of the working shepherds I've seen and most of the whites look fine.


That's it! That's a good looking Shepherd. 

I was just in to their forum and WOW! it's busy! lol 
But I was able to zoom in fairly quickly on the latest in Shepherd conformation. Apparently there's different purebred 'lines'. Working lines, show lines, and even show lines are broken down to American and German.

Here's the latest from their site.

It looks like they're setting up for the that's-not-us-that's-them defense. Getting ready to wash their hands of the Crufts dog.


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## kayla_baxter (Jul 17, 2015)

Some regions seem particularly bad as well. In Danes for example, the breed standards are virtually identical in the AKC, CKC and FCI, but some European countries, especially France and Italy, have made the breed almost unrecognizable. 
This dog is an exceptional example of the breed and other than a bit too much flew, meet the standard very well:









This is a champion in France I believe. Rounded skull, square muzzle, stupid amounts of lip, terrible eyes and an awful rear. Dogs like this rarely live past 5 1/2. 










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## PoodleDreaming (Jun 10, 2015)

Holy crap.. I thought that second one was like a Neopolitan or something.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Wow Kayla_Baxter that black dog just looks awful! It is sad to see that not only does the dog look poorly but that its life is so short too, not to mention my vision of the dog walking around with a drool bucket hanging on its muzzle.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

There was a dog caught in a very bad pose at Westminster. The owner and a few others in the GSD community posted photos of their dogs. There were 3 or 4 photos of the same dog. In various different "poses" Even the most extreme in the show pose LOOKED LIKE THE OLD FASHIONED GSD WHEN POSED LIKE MOST SHOW DOGS! It was a real eye opener for me. I on the other hand was more concerned about the dogs obvious stress and fright not her conformation as her movement was more affected by her feelings then her build


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## PoodleDreaming (Jun 10, 2015)

I think what bothers me the most is when a dog is bred to such an extreme that would never be able to do what it was bred for. Can you imagine that second dog hunting boar? I can see it with the first one.

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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

I came across this on Facebook and it reminded me of this discussion. Has this been posted here before? I noticed that the page is a few years old: https://dogbehaviorscience.wordpress.com/2012/09/29/100-years-of-breed-improvement/


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Thanks for that link. It was very interesting.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

lisasgirl said:


> I came across this on Facebook and it reminded me of this discussion. Has this been posted here before? I noticed that the page is a few years old: https://dogbehaviorscience.wordpress.com/2012/09/29/100-years-of-breed-improvement/


That just sickens me as I see it does many. To intentionally do this to these breeds is a crime, a cruelty beyond measure. I agree with the author. I think people should not patronize those who breed this way (ie: the bulldog, the boxer, the dachshund and the GSD to name a few.) And the dog show people need a firm speaking to about what they are contributing in rewarding traits that are harming, hurting, preventing animals from cooling themselves or giving birth naturally and so forth. There ought to be a group that gets the word out to people involved. Thanks for posting that Lisa, although it is quite disturbing...but interesting too.


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