# Am I any less qualified?



## Luluspoo (Jul 27, 2020)

Hi guys! I hope I am in the right place for this question (sorry if I'm not), but I’ve been researching and looking into standard poodles for sometime now despite the fact that it will be a year or two before I get one of my own. There are plenty of great breeders out there and sometimes I do become intimidated by a few of them. I cannot tell whether or not this is a real reason to feel inferior, but I often like to look over sites and their Q&A’s to see what I'm getting myself into if I decided to go with that breeder. Now, a reoccurring question I often see is if someone or not lives in an apartment or house and whether or not they have a big backyard. The reason this question scares me is because I live in _The Big Apple_ and I absolutely adore city life as well as the comfort of an apartment! I don't see myself buying a home of my own for a couple of years—right now it's only my boyfriend and myself with two tiny dogs and there's no way we’re having kids anytime soon! Our current home is a very spacious one bedroom, my little babies don't even know what to do with themselves sometimes. The city is full of cute doggy parks, which is like my sanctuary sometimes and my boyfriend and I like to go on long walk. Despite of it, I still feel like a spoo breeder will overlook me because I don't have a big backyard for my dog to play in. Am I overthinking or could my current living situation and activities affect my chances of getting a standard poodle? Should I aim for a toy or mini instead? I'd really love a larger dog.

Last question and it's almost unrelated, but do waitlists time vary for different breeders?


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

I lived in an apartment when I got my spoo. Its doable. I did have to skip over a few good breeders who explicitly list that they wont sell dogs to apartment dwellers, but spoke to two that had no issues at all. A phone call is likely better than an email, so you can communicate how good of an owner you will be, your plan for exercising, etc. 

Dog parks arent a good fit for many dogs - I go to one here, but the two near my apartment were a bad fit for my sensitive spoo due to too many aggressive dogs and idiotic owners. Have a plan for exercise and off leash running that is not a dog park. I used to go to an abandoned train yard, large fields, etc, on a long line. My spoo needs to run wildly at least once a week for both of our sanity. 

I seem to recall reading of a spoo breeder on here who got her start with a bunch of spoos in an apartment in NYC! 

Yes - waitlist times vary for different breeders. Some dont waitlist. Some are new, and therefore arent well known and have shorter waitlists. Some do a better job of advertising, ofr have trendier colours. Some under-waitlist, so may only have 6 people waitlisted on a litter that ends up being 12 puppies. Waitlists seem to be incredibly long right now due to COVID- I suspect that some people will drop off as they return to work or their financial situation changes. 

Hope that helps.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

I think you should not be overly intimidated. It is true some breeders may prefer buyers with yards but many will notice your dedication to properly exercising your dog. I felt a bit the same way even though my breeder was for minis. I worried that me being a grad student who rents would be seen as less desirable. But when you talk with breeders you can make it clear how you have done your research and you are dedicated to giving the dog what it needs. Just stress that you expect 1-2 hours of dedicated exercise out of the home every day and you will be able to provide safe off leash activity. Dog parks are iffy. I would not say you will use dog parks. But driving once a week to a safe off leash location really helps. I take my mini to an off leash area almost every day but it is one that is very safe where I know most of the dogs who go regularly. But still minor altercations can occur. It is always a risk.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Here's the post!!! 








Hello from New York


Hey there! I'm not a dog owner yet, but doing research on here. I'm a college student in NYC planning to get a poodle as a graduation gift to myself, so for now I will just satisfy myself with looking a pictures until I can take one home.




www.poodleforum.com


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I think many breeders are trying to weed out people who should be purchasing a Barbie doll instead of a dog. Poodles, despite being cute and fluffy, are dogs. Athletic dogs. Very smart athletic dogs. Very easily bored, very smart, very athletic dogs. They need physical exercise, mental exercise, and social companionship.


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## Luluspoo (Jul 27, 2020)

I haven't had any bad experiences with the dog Park I take mine to regularly, maybe I just got lucky. But dog parks most definitely will not be my only source. I know poodles need a lot of exercise, so I've been looking into fun dog-exercise classes the city has to offer. But if spoos or even minis need something equivalent to a large backyard for some off leash time, I'm sure I can find a place. I can admit that many city parks are crowded at a specific time, but I might know of a few places. I’m glad to hear from some people who have faced that problem. This gives me a better idea of what to do for sure. Thanks you two! Also, thank you for answering my question on the waitlist too. That's what I imagined, but I just want to double check.

Thank you for the link!

~~~

I understand that cowpony, but I hope that's not only limited to those in apartments. I've heard of people with houses large enough and the space for ten standard poodles to play and exercise all day, but limit them for the sake of keeping up with their appearances.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Luluspoo said:


> I haven't had any bad experiences with the dog Park I take mine to regularly, maybe I just got lucky. But dog parks most definitely will not be my only source. I know poodles need a lot of exercise, so I've been looking into fun dog-exercise classes the city has to offer. But if spoos or even minis need something equivalent to a large backyard for some off leash time, I'm sure I can find a place. I can admit that many city parks are crowded at a specific time, but I might know of a few places. I’m glad to hear from some people who have faced that problem. This gives me a better idea of what to do for sure. Thanks you two! Also, thank you for answering my question on the waitlist too. That's what I imagined, but I just want to double check.
> 
> 
> ~~~
> ...


I do sometimes also go to dog parks, but I'm just careful to analyze the dogs present for potential issues. I guess what I'm saying is I would not want a breeder to think that your only option for extended exercise is expected to be a dog park. Some might feel very uncomfortable with that. Because even if the other dogs are fine... maybe your dog won't be. There are many reasons that make a dog a poor candidate for dog parks. Maybe they are owner-possessive, toy-possessive, bully other dogs, etc. These can be worked on with training to a degree, but may take a long time for the dog to be trustworthy and so you want to have good alternatives for exercise. My dog is generally great around other dogs, but there are still dogs he isn't good with due to over excitement. Fenced dog parks often pack too many dogs into a small area where the only option is to leave if your dog has an issue or if another dog is bullying your dog. But you can visit during off hours when it is safer. I'd just be wary of how you phrase things with a breeder.


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## Luluspoo (Jul 27, 2020)

Your advice is very much needed. I know what I want to do with the dog, I'm just not the best at expressing it...I guess I should work on that now so I don't seem like an incompetent goof while talking to the breeder lol.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

If I were a breeder, I'd just want to know you had a plan (and a backup plan) for regular off-leash exercise. I think this is a non-negotiable for a spoo.

I had a small mini mix in an apartment with no issue. She was small enough to run around inside, plus I walked her multiple times a day on a variety of terrain. I don't think I'd personally have been up for the challenge of keeping a spoo in similar circumstances. Definitely not while working 10+ hours a day. But that's not to say it's not possible. 

I do think the first few years will be challenging, though. And that's why the plan (and backup plan) is important.

It sounds like you're taking this all very seriously, doing your research, and asking good questions. That's more than most dog owners do! I think your efforts will absolutely make you stand out to some good breeders.


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## Luluspoo (Jul 27, 2020)

I wouldn't mind if a breeder asked me about the daily exercises I plan on doing with the dog. I feel like that's a big part of owning any dog, but especially a standard poodle considering their history. I'm going back to college soon, but I know I can make time and plan out a weekly schedule that I wouldn't mind explaining to the breeder.

That means a lot to me, Peggy  I'm taking this as serious as I possibly can! I put my all in or nothing.


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## Luluspoo (Jul 27, 2020)

Update! After talking with you guys about the daily activities a poodle can partake in, I began discussing it with my boyfriend and different parks in the city as well as outside of it that we could possibly take a look at. I haven't gone out much since the pandemic began and we've moved into a new place, but apparently there's a big park with rivers, lakes and open fields less than fifteen minutes away from me! Literally, walking distance! My boyfriend pointed that out to me once I started talking about driving at least forty minutes out of the city for a decent park lol he wasn't the biggest fan of my ideas and almost gave up on spoos. Nice to know I don't have to do that now.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Luluspoo said:


> Update! After talking with you guys about the daily activities a poodle can partake in, I began discussing it with my boyfriend and different parks in the city as well as outside of it that we could possibly take a look at. I haven't gone out much since the pandemic began and we've moved into a new place, but apparently there's a big park with rivers, lakes and open fields less than fifteen minutes away from me! Literally, walking distance! My boyfriend pointed that out to me once I started talking about driving at least forty minutes out of the city for a decent park lol he wasn't the biggest fan of my ideas and almost gave up on spoos. Nice to know I don't have to do that now.


That sounds awesome!


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

People who have large fenced in backyards aren't better 'qualified.' We just have an easier time with our dogs. People with apartments have to work harder to meet their dog's needs. (We send out poodle into the backyard at 6 AM while we stay in our pajamas. That's EASY. : )

If asked, just explain that you understand that you'll have to make a greater effort and have already planned how your dog will get enough exercise.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I actually reached out to a local rescue because they were indicating in every adoption listing that a fenced yard AND doggy door were required. I explained that a dog who is actively walked multiple times a day by his or her owner is going to be better off than the dog who is left to his or her own devices in the backyard for hours on end.

They actually changed their basic requirements after that conversation, which I really appreciated! Having a one-size-fits-all approach may be easier, but it's not necessarily in the dog's best interest.


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## Luluspoo (Jul 27, 2020)

@Dianaleez you’re right about that. I could see a breeder wanting guaranteed exercise a day and some apartment dwellers might not have the time for it. Or yes, they'll have to work harder too. If 6AM exercise in my pajamas is what it takes though, I'm here for it  

~~

@PeggyTheParti I remember animal shelter requirements were extremely tough back in my home state. At one point, it was a lot tougher to get a rescue dog! I'm so glad you convince your local animal shelter to alter their basic requirements just a bit.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

Anyone who thinks that having a backyard replaces walking the dog should just get a gerbil. Backyards are for blowing off steam, chasing whatever, digging wherever, and doing their doggy business. 

Owners walk their dogs to bond with them and see that they both get enough exercise.


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I actually reached out to a local rescue because they were indicating in every adoption listing that a fenced yard AND doggy door were required. I explained that a dog who is actively walked multiple times a day by his or her owner is going to be better off than the dog who is left to his or her own devices in the backyard for hours on end.
> 
> They actually changed their basic requirements after that conversation, which I really appreciated! Having a one-size-fits-all approach may be easier, but it's not necessarily in the dog's best interest.


Yes, this drives me nuts! I watched this TV series on an animal rescue (I think it was North Shore?) when I was younger, and there was all this drama about families not fitting certain requirements. And then the staff complained they couldn't find homes. This one guy broke my heart, because he lived a couple of states over, and they refused to let him adopt a Jack Russell because "they couldn't check on him". His face after they told him no still bugs me... The dog found a home, of course, because it was TV, but what if it hadn't? They could have ruined the only hope for that dog, especially such a high energy one! Most shelters are good, but then there are those ones... I'm glad your shelter seems to be willing to change their views on what's best for the dog.

As for breeders, I think you'll find most ones are very understanding, so long as you demonstrate a will to exercise the dog.


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## Luluspoo (Jul 27, 2020)

Since poodles are an active breed, I think that what should matter most. Lots and lots of exercise!

~~~

That's terrible @FloofyPoodle! To travel so far to be basically told no and the shelter got lucky too. I think at this point it's a known fact that Russells are very active. After the “Frasier” fad, I know they became less desired due to their hyper behavior. If that dog lost a potential home forever, I don't know how they'd come to terms with it.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I think if you are an active person you can deal with a standard poodle in an apartment. They do require exercise and mental activities. St poodles are smart, our local rescue ends up with several each year when people give up trying to train them or they become destructive. I don't feel dogs need playmates or playtimes with other dogs, though its an easy way to tire them out. If you can give him some free time at a dog park or daycare to fun free that is an ideal way to give them more exercise. Also if you go to pet training classes, I think these tire the dog more than anything . I think you will do fine.


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## Luluspoo (Jul 27, 2020)

I've heard training classes tire them out, too much exercise for their brain lol. But I plan on being as active as I can be with a standard poodle.


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## RJF (Aug 3, 2020)

Luluspoo said:


> Hi guys! I hope I am in the right place for this question (sorry if I'm not), but I’ve been researching and looking into standard poodles for sometime now despite the fact that it will be a year or two before I get one of my own. There are plenty of great breeders out there and sometimes I do become intimidated by a few of them. I cannot tell whether or not this is a real reason to feel inferior, but I often like to look over sites and their Q&A’s to see what I'm getting myself into if I decided to go with that breeder. Now, a reoccurring question I often see is if someone or not lives in an apartment or house and whether or not they have a big backyard. The reason this question scares me is because I live in _The Big Apple_ and I absolutely adore city life as well as the comfort of an apartment! I don't see myself buying a home of my own for a couple of years—right now it's only my boyfriend and myself with two tiny dogs and there's no way we’re having kids anytime soon! Our current home is a very spacious one bedroom, my little babies don't even know what to do with themselves sometimes. The city is full of cute doggy parks, which is like my sanctuary sometimes and my boyfriend and I like to go on long walk. Despite of it, I still feel like a spoo breeder will overlook me because I don't have a big backyard for my dog to play in. Am I overthinking or could my current living situation and activities affect my chances of getting a standard poodle? Should I aim for a toy or mini instead? I'd really love a larger dog.
> 
> Last question and it's almost unrelated, but do waitlists time vary for different breeders?


Most Standard Poodle puppies are VERY exuberant for at least 2 years and not among the "easiest" of puppies. They DO need to run off leash - a lot. Hopefully you're near a good park for that.

Standard Poodle adults on the other hand are usually very, very accommodating and most would do fine in an apartment. 

Show breeders are notoriously controlling and intolerant people. Mostly because they reward each other for being nasty to puppy buyers. Unless you want to show or highly value very strict adherence to esoteric minutae in terms of physicality - I'd avoid breeders who show their dogs. 

There are many pet breeders who test for common genetic diseases. Very few pet breeders will give you a hard time about living in an apartment. Cash in hand - and they'll love you. Many people believe this is a bad thing - but I think if you're forking over $2500.00 for a puppy you should be treated like a king or queen - not a subject.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

RJF said:


> Most Standard Poodle puppies are VERY exuberant for at least 2 years and not among the "easiest" of puppies. They DO need to run off leash - a lot. Hopefully you're near a good park for that.
> 
> Standard Poodle adults on the other hand are usually very, very accommodating and most would do fine in an apartment.
> 
> ...


I can't disagree more with this. I have seen no difference in pickiness between show and pet breeders for poodles. My dog is from a show breeder and she was extremely understanding of my home situation. I do not trust any breeder that puts a high priority on profit. I want a breeder that breeds for improvement of the breed and producing quality dogs. Not for money.


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## Luluspoo (Jul 27, 2020)

@RJF I do hope to receive a pup that mellows out a bit after their puppy years go by. I'm not saying I'm not up for off leash time and activities, I look forward to it! In my own home, however, I like to chill out a bit. Lots of pets and cuddles (if the dog wants to) and games of tug of war in the meantime. That's my usual routine at home. But I'm always willing to adjust if I have a hyper pup forever.

I would purchase from a pet breeder if I didn't want to take a shot at showing a dog myself. Pet breeders do seem...friendlier than those that show, but I guess I can see why? Like Raindrop stated some are friendly. I found a few who are more than willing to mentor someone looking to show and their contracts are very lenient. They make it clear how hard show is and how serious they take it, but the breeder does believe everyone deserves a shot. A true gem in my eyes...I admire them a lot!

But RJF isn't wrong either...I’m not saying I want to be praised for buying a $2500+ dog, but I don’t want to feel like I'm buying an animal much more superior than myself, if that makes sense? Like the dog owns me and not the other way around. Some breeders appear to be extremely strict and scary. Nonrefundable deposits, they choose the dog no matter your preference (I get why they choose for you, but some don't exactly take in your preference), etc.

Like I stated earlier, I want to take a shot at showing and there are gems that will give you a co-ownership contract that immediately disperse once your dog receive it's title or maybe the contract states the dog Is your full responsibility; show `em how you like and ask questions along the way! But the breeder will hold the rights to breed the dog, something I have no problem with at all. 

Then there are those that’ll give you a show dog for sure...but they have all sorts of rights to the dog, you’re just the lucky guy who gets to pay for the vet bills. I'm pretty sure those are the people RJF is referring to maybe?


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

RJF said:


> ...Show breeders are notoriously controlling and intolerant people. Mostly because they reward each other for being nasty to puppy buyers...


*Vita, speaking as Super Moderator*. Sweeping generalizations that target entire groups are provocative and disrupts the peace of the forum. Please review the Forum Rules before posting again.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Luluspoo, I sincerely hope you find your perfect spoo & your perfect mentor, and that win big when you finally get into the ring. You are certainly putting in a lot of work and research now, before you even get the dog.


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## Luluspoo (Jul 27, 2020)

Thank you! That really means so much, pony


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## farleysd (Apr 18, 2011)

When I first began in standard poodles I lived in Manhattan on the Upper West Side. I lived on 108th street and Manhattan Avenue. I was a block and a half from Central Park and the 'Great Hill.' I began showing while living there as well as having my first 5 litters. It was actually a fantastic time. We use to meet several 'dog people ' on the Great Hill. In the summer we would have pot luck dinners with so many dog people. City dogs tend to be better socialized than other dogs.........they have to be. City dogs are around many more people as well as many more dogs. I finally left the city when I had 5 dogs! I needed more space for what I was doing!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

farleysd said:


> City dogs tend to be better socialized than other dogs.........they have to be.


Yes!! And every outing is an adventure.


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## Luluspoo (Jul 27, 2020)

@farleysd I do feel like with living in the city, you're more obligated to take your dogs out more often! There's just so much more you can do with dogs in a city. Before the pandemic, my boyfriend and I used to visit central park frequently with our dogs and I have a blast coming across other dog people and their dogs. When I'm not in the city and I visit my hometown, I forget that some suburban dogs aren't that socialized...

Did you live in an apartment while breeding poodles? That sounds like a lot lol.


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## farleysd (Apr 18, 2011)

Luluspoo said:


> @farleysd I do feel like with living in the city, you're more obligated to take your dogs out more often! There's just so much more you can do with dogs in a city. Before the pandemic, my boyfriend and I used to visit central park frequently with our dogs and I have a blast coming across other dog people and their dogs. When I'm not in the city and I visit my hometown, I forget that some suburban dogs aren't that socialized...
> 
> Did you live in an apartment while breeding poodles? That sounds like a lot lol.


Hi Luluspoo, yes I lived in an apartment on 108th street, my landlord use to play the 'rent control' game with me, so I would move from apartment to apartment in the building. I would get very cheap rent and once I moved to a different apartment he was able to raise the rent on my our old apartment to market price. It worked out great for both of us. My first two litters were born in a pricy two bedroom apartment, after that, two were born in one bedrooms, and actually onewas born in a studio apartment. Loved the city, loved being so close to 'the park' and all!

Terry


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## Luluspoo (Jul 27, 2020)

I absolutely love living in the city, but man looking for a decent apartment is like bargain shopping in a name-brand store! But that's amazing, considering the litter size poodles are capable of producing. I know it wasn't easy, but probably a lot of fun! I like small spaces and being close to those I love dearly. If you were still in the city, I would have loved to witness the puppy madness 

Anything is possible when you live in an apartment!


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## farleysd (Apr 18, 2011)

Luluspoo said:


> I absolutely love living in the city, but man looking for a decent apartment is like bargain shopping in a name-brand store! But that's amazing, considering the litter size poodles are capable of producing. I know it wasn't easy, but probably a lot of fun! I like small spaces and being close to those I love dearly. If you were still in the city, I would have loved to witness the puppy madness
> 
> Anything is possible when you live in an apartment!


Living in the city was very social for both me and my poodles. It was great to have so many dog related activities. Being so close to 'the park' made it much easier, also my highest apartment was on the 4th floor! I was much younger then and it wasn't a chore to run up and down four flights of steps SEVERAL times a day!! LOL


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## Luluspoo (Jul 27, 2020)

Oof, I know the feeling! I live on the 5th floor with no elevator and it's a hassle lol. But it's exactly the workout I need! I miss going out more often. I wish there were more standard poodles in my area too, they're almost rare here in the city.


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