# Poodle Colors and Responsible Breeding



## fuzzymom (Sep 19, 2013)

Haha, I think I know the site you are looking at and I questioned it too when I was looking for a puppy. I decided against that breeder, but I'm not an expert on poodles. 


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

i thought partis had become an accepted part (though maybe not by the akc) of breeding? i believe there are reasonable arguments out there about the need, especially for standards, for enlarging the gene pool. does not justify bypassing testing, though.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Partis are now accepted by UKC. 

No, widening the gene pool without health testing will eventually backfire. 

I personally love some of the 'off' colors - partial to phantoms and sables. (and brindles and...)


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

For me it would come down to the individual breeder, rather than the colour. Most conformation show breeders are probably still aiming for solid colours, but those breeding for performance etc will be less concerned. Anyone claiming colours are "rare" or "unique" and charging inflated prices as a result would be a no-no, and anyone breeding merles would have me running a mile. Apart from that I'd be looking at health, temperament, testing, history etc as for any breeder.


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## AmandaNola (Jan 14, 2014)

Thank you, everyone.  

I know what to look for in a good breeder as far as knowledge and testing and titles, but wasn't sure if odd colors were a no no. With dachshunds you have to be very careful with colors (not mixing patterns, no double dapple, ect) and I personally avoided breeders who mixed coat types. Wasn't sure if Poodles were similar.


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

In the future I would LOVE to have a black and white mini- but a true to type one. 
I don't know how hard that would be, but I love parti colors. 
My Chihuahua is fawn/white, my cat is black/white, and they are so pretty to look at vs. solid colors- my PWD and poodle are brown, and my bichon is white. Pretty, yes, but not flashy and fun like parti colors.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

The "off" colors in poodles are all recessive to the solid colors that are seen in the AKC show rings. Any line can throw them and in the past they were most often quietly culled and never spoken about. Now more people are admitting that their lines produce those colors and are keeping them in their breeding program if the type and health is what they want. Just the presence of multi colors is not in its self a red flag, BUT you want them to come from lines that have had the same health testing as the show line solids and yes look for those UKC titles in the US and Canada as those show that the breeder is at least trying to make sure the conformation is what it should be. Grand Champion titles from UKC are a really good sign. Champion titles are so so as they are very easy to earn in UKC compared to the AKC. Any Total Dog awards are good to see also as that means the dog has qualified in a performance event and placed best of winners or higher IN THE SAME SHOW.


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

the colors should not make a difference in looking for a responsible breeder. be sure to check that the parents are health tested ( ask for copies of testing), and I do like to see Conformation titles and performance titles on dogs they have produced. red flags are breeding females that are young ( under 2) and having lots of colors/pups available all the time


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

My Phantom is out of Solid Parents & lines. AKC Champions on top & bottom. I showed her UKC & finished #2 top 10. There are several Parties that come from Solid colored parents. I would personally run from Merles. They are NOT accepted in the UKC.


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## fuzzymom (Sep 19, 2013)

tintlet said:


> the colors should not make a difference in looking for a responsible breeder. be sure to check that the parents are health tested ( ask for copies of testing), and I do like to see Conformation titles and performance titles on dogs they have produced. red flags are breeding females that are young ( under 2) and having lots of colors/pups available all the time


Yes, the breeder I was referring to had so many different colors (solid, parti, tri-colored, brindle) it made me question them. Also have only a 1-2 year health guarantee and I don't think it specified what that covered.


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## Liafast (Apr 9, 2011)

I don't like lines with browns mixed in with creams and reds. It puts the wrong nose/eye/lip color in the lines. It is a show fault in creams (It can be called white chocolate) and undesirable in reds/apricots. I would RUN from kennel that advertise these dogs are 'rare green eyes' or 'rare white chocalate'. Rare is rare(ly) correct in conformation.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I would not buy from a breeder with a 1-2 year guarantee. Hips are not tested until close to 2 years of later. Your dog would have to have symptoms & diagnosed at a young age. Also see how the guarantee is worded. Many times your dog has to be returned to get a new pup, could you do that? Sometimes worded like " if the dogs quality of life is diminished" or " life threatening" etc... Many guatentees are totally useless

I would buy from a breeder where health & performance are the prime reason for breeding & color secondary or an added bonus.


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## poodlecrazy51 (Dec 31, 2012)

I think there are some color names that don't really exist in Poodles. I am no expert, so please check and be careful. It sounds like you are. Merle and white chocolate may be 2 of them. Some people breeding are making up interesting name colors and sizes..like giant, moyen, merle, etc. to attract buyers. There are 3 sizes in Poodles, period, and there is a list of colors poodles can be. There is a good website I refer to...regarding some of these things. kennel name is Arpeggio. They no longer breed, but maintain an informational website.. and, in my opinion, a breeder that is selling a lot of pups, with a lot of different colors, mixing color gene pools inappropriately, (causing undesirable nose(point) colors, like a red or cream with liver points) is to be frowned upon. That is not breeding to the standard and to promote well-bred poodles. That is sounding like someone breeding more for the money..And to me, inflating prices on certain pups, is not appropriate, either. Any guarantee can be useless, so read the small print and ask questions. But even a one year can be helpful for those puppy illnesses to get through. If the breeder does thorough testing, you are still getting the "hope" for a healthy puppy. Most people aren't going to return and exchange a puppy they have come to love, in 2 years. I just prepare myself mentally and financially, that things can happen down the road, no matter how good a breeder. I take that responsibility when I take the puppy home. So finding a breeder that you know you can trust, that is doing it for the right reasons and will be there with advice and support is more important to me than a guarantee. So don't get too hung up on the contract. But be careful to read it and imagine all the scenarios you may face, and what the contract may hold you to. And if you or the breeder becomes in breach of the contract, what harm will it cause you or your pup...The bad breeder in Montana that sold us our first red puppy, was in breach. She did not do what she, in writing, promised to do. Not much I could do about it in a different state, or hold up in a court of law. It greatly changed my opinions of contracts and guarantees. I put my faith in a fabulous breeder and person, over a contract or guarantee.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

I cringe when I hear my brownie called a chocolate. I will gently correct folks that in poodles it is simply brown. If a web site is selling chocolate poodles you know you are in the wrong place. I agree that most "rare" colors or sizes are to be avoided and any color of Merle to me is a NOPE GET ME OUT OF HERE color. 

Browns to cream, red, apricots, or whites will give me pause. I want to know the reason behind it. IF you are breeding to the conformation standard you know to avoid such a breeding. Now if brown is an MACH3 and red is an OTCH and you are breeding for more OTCH or MACH3 prospects that is a whole nother ball game... the main thing is there should be a legitimate reason behind that kind of color cross. 

Just having lines that toss out all kinds of colors randomly isn't a big concern to me if I am looking for a pet or working dog. If I am looking for possible breeding stock I might look a bit more closely at pedigrees, etc to decide if that is really what I want.


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