# Appropriate age to spay a spoo?



## poshandpoodles (Mar 22, 2017)

I haven't had a female yet so the only thing I can say is that I know with males.
From my research, I've read to wait until they (males) are mature. They need those hormones to properly develop. I'm not neutering my boy, but if I was going to I'd wait until he was full grown around 1.5 to 2 years old. 

For a female, I'd probably wait until after a year as well. Go with your gut along with research. Ask your vet as well. My doesn't push early spay/neuter if you actually ask their opinion.


----------



## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

Abbey was spayed at 9 1/2 months, I would have waited until she was a year old but she needed eye surgery so we opted to have everything done under one anesthetic. Dolly was spayed at 11 months because she swallowed a rock and it had to be removed, we had the same thought about having everything done in one surgery. I noticed absolutely no changes in my girls what so ever, they seem to get more cuddly, but I think that comes with maturity too. Some prefer to wait until after their first heat.


----------



## thekarens (Apr 16, 2017)

Maddie was spayed at 6 months, but she came from an all breed rescue and they didn't place their dogs until they were fixed. She's been healthy and is now 11. She's also very sweet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

The aggression thing you mentioned is hogwash. However, I would recommend spaying after one heat cycle, whatever age she may be when she's through it.


----------



## Daywalker (Apr 23, 2017)

Have you seen this golden retriever study? 
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0055937

I don't know how applicable the results are to standard poodles but they're both large athletic breeds. I believe that there are some studies with multiple breeds ongoing.

Also, there are options other than full desexing available at some vets. Some vets offer ovary sparing spay (OSS) which prevents the potential mess of heats and puppies while leaving hormones intact or tubal ligation. For males, vasectomies are sometimes available.


----------



## Daywalker (Apr 23, 2017)

Ovary sparing spay info: 
https://www.parsemusfoundation.org/projects/ovary-sparing-spray/


----------



## DrSDOH (Feb 19, 2017)

Daywalker said:


> Have you seen this golden retriever study?
> Neutering Dogs: Effects on Joint Disorders and Cancers in Golden Retrievers
> 
> I don't know how applicable the results are to standard poodles but they're both large athletic breeds. I believe that there are some studies with multiple breeds ongoing.
> ...



Thank you for this information! I will research it further to learn more about the pros and cons. I read medical research literature for a living, but this will be a pleasure since it is for my Ella. 

The list of vets is so helpful! There seem to be so few it would be difficult to easily find out who is using this approach.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Lily was spayed before her first heat since I had an intact male (Peeves) around when she was young and I didn't want him to get notions about mating from being around her in heat. She is a very sweet good hard working girl. That said had I not had the consideration of my boy I would have waited until she had a heat in all likelihood.


----------



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

The OSS makes absolutely no sense to me, since the dog is still able to get tumors, which is a major reason why I spay. Now the vasectomy, that is something to consider if the dog doesn't have behaviors like marking.

ETA: Maizie had the opposite of a OSS--a salpingo-oophorectomy, which is the removal of the ovaries and fallopian tubes and leaving the uterus in place.


----------



## Daywalker (Apr 23, 2017)

The OSS is kinda like a "pick your cancer" game. A full spray prior to first heat greatly reduces mammary cancer. Remove ovaries or testicles and those cancers are also eliminated. The problem is that (based on the golden retriever study and a few others in progress) the chances of three other forms of cancer that they studied increase by between 5-10% depending on the cancer when a dog is completely desexed no matter when the desexing happens. Plus intact dogs seem to have orthopedic advantages and fewer thyroid issues as they age. 

I'm not offering a value judgment here. Everyone has to decide what risks they're comfortable taking. I've just been wading through studies and absorbing info trying to make my own decision.


----------



## DrSDOH (Feb 19, 2017)

Daywalker said:


> The OSS is kinda like a "pick your cancer" game. A full spray prior to first heat greatly reduces mammary cancer. Remove ovaries or testicles and those cancers are also eliminated. The problem is that (based on the golden retriever study and a few others in progress) the chances of three other forms of cancer that they studied increase by between 5-10% depending on the cancer when a dog is completely desexed no matter when the desexing happens. Plus intact dogs seem to have orthopedic advantages and fewer thyroid issues as they age.
> 
> I'm not offering a value judgment here. Everyone has to decide what risks they're comfortable taking. I've just been wading through studies and absorbing info trying to make my own decision.



Agreed. It seems this new approach in veterinary sciences is not unlike that taken with women who undergo hysterectomies for various medical reasons. I was required to do so in my 30's and initially requested removal of the ovaries as well. As a cancer prevention researcher, I knew the risks of ovarian cancer were minimal and later (in a less emotional state) agreed with my MD recommendation to retain them as the benefits were greater than the risks. I do think this is worth considering upon further examination of the literature -- thanks for providing the information.


----------



## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

Daywalker said:


> The OSS is kinda like a "pick your cancer" game. A full spray prior to first heat greatly reduces mammary cancer. Remove ovaries or testicles and those cancers are also eliminated. The problem is that (based on the golden retriever study and a few others in progress) the chances of three other forms of cancer that they studied increase by between 5-10% depending on the cancer when a dog is completely desexed no matter when the desexing happens. Plus intact dogs seem to have orthopedic advantages and fewer thyroid issues as they age.


This is a great way of putting it! But it's also important to understand the nature of the cancers you are lowering and raising the probabilities of. I think we tend to freak out at the mention of mammary tumors, because breast cancer strikes such dread in us women. But from my reading, although mammary tumors are fairly common in older unspayed bitches, many are not malignant, and even those that are malignant are *mostly* fairly indolent and can be treated with surgery. As with prostate cancer in men, you don't want to be in that minority with very aggressive tumors. 

There is a similar situation with male-specific cancer risk with neutering. Neutering eliminates the risk of testicular cancer, but raises the risk of prostate cancer in male dogs. Testicular cancer tends to be highly treatable with surgery in dogs. 

On the other side, there is evidence that some of the cancers with increased risk in spayed/neutered dogs are big and nasty, e.g., osteosarcoma and hemangiosarcoma.


----------

