# proper movement



## cbrand

No other breeders have responded?  This is the advantage of Conformation showing. You get to see a lot of dogs move and not all of it is pretty or correct.

This is what the standard has to say:
_A straightforward trot with light springy action and strong hindquarters drive. Head and tail carried up. Sound effortless movement is essential._

Translation.... The movement should have good suspension. That means that the dog lifts off and clears the ground as it moves. http://www.alegriapoodles.com/html/mini-boys.html (look at Cowboy... all 4 feet are off the ground).

The movement should give the impression of moving slightly uphill with the "power" coming from the rear. A Poodle should never lower itself when it moves.

Movement has to be even with balanced reach and drive. This means that the front leg has to reach out forward as far as the back pushes out back. The movement has to go somewhere and cover ground.

So many people look at the side picture and don't pay attention to the often more important down and back movement. A Poodle has to track straight so that the front legs are inline with the back. A Poodle should not sidewind (move with its hind end out to the side) or flip their legs or rotate its shoulders.

Carriage. Good carriage comes as much from attitude, neck length and neck set, but it is judged along with movement. Poodles should carry their head up on a well arched neck and they should ideally have self carriage in that they can move that way on their own (not strung up on a short leash). It should give the idea of pride and confidence. A Poodle should not move around the ring with its head poked low and out in front. Again, think dressage horse.

Problem movement: 
Hackney fronts that go up and down.
Bicycle up and down in the rear.
Move cow hocked, wide or close in the rear.
Move bigger in the rear than in the front.
Mincey movement that skitters and doesn't cover ground.
Hitching in the rear on the circle.
Paddling in the front.
Unbalanced movement. 
Moving downhill.
Pacing.


----------



## bigredpoodle

cbrand said:


> No other breeders have responded?  This is the advantage of Conformation showing. You get to see a lot of dogs move and not all of it is pretty or correct.
> 
> This is what the standard has to say:
> _A straightforward trot with light springy action and strong hindquarters drive. Head and tail carried up. Sound effortless movement is essential._
> 
> Translation.... The movement should have good suspension. That means that the dog lifts off and clears the ground as it moves. http://www.alegriapoodles.com/html/mini-boys.html (look at Cowboy... all 4 feet are off the ground).
> 
> The movement should give the impression of moving slightly uphill with the "power" coming from the rear. A Poodle should never lower itself when it moves.
> 
> Movement has to be even with balanced reach and drive. This means that the front leg has to reach out forward as far as the back pushes out back. The movement has to go somewhere and cover ground.
> 
> So many people look at the side picture and don't pay attention to the often more important down and back movement. A Poodle has to track straight so that the front legs are inline with the back. A Poodle should not sidewind (move with its hind end out to the side) or flip their legs or rotate its shoulders.
> 
> Carriage. Good carriage comes as much from attitude, neck length and neck set, but it is judged along with movement. Poodles should carry their head up on a well arched neck and they should ideally have self carriage in that they can move that way on their own (not strung up on a short leash). It should give the idea of pride and confidence. A Poodle should not move around the ring with its head poked low and out in front. Again, think dressage horse.
> 
> Problem movement:
> Hackney fronts that go up and down.
> Bicycle up and down in the rear.
> Move cow hocked, wide or close in the rear.
> Move bigger in the rear than in the front.
> Mincey movement that skitters and doesn't cover ground.
> Hitching in the rear on the circle.
> Paddling in the front.
> Unbalanced movement.
> Moving downhill.
> Pacing.[/QUOTE
> 
> Overall balance pleasing to the eye correct ! I agree I have seen some pretty poor specimans in the ring. The last show I was at There was a black bitch there that was stunning, she floated around the ring reaching and driving. Needless to say she had three majors


----------



## SECRETO

Is the poodle supposed to converge slightly (front legs) at a higher speed ?


----------



## cbrand

SECRETO said:


> Is the poodle supposed to converge slightly (front legs) at a higher speed ?


Yes. But it should not single track and I think many inexperienced handlers move poodles too quickly in the ring.

I found this great site and there is what it has to say:

_GAIT/MOVEMENT 
Sound, free movement and light gait are essential. 
Sound, effortless movement is essential. The typical light springy action partly results from the correct proportions, proper foot timing, balanced angulation, good condition and correct carriage. Springy does not mean bouncy, as the Poodle should retain a steady topline when moving, rather it means athletic, lithe and “light on it’s feet”. Balanced side movement is a characteristic of the breed. The Poodle should display good reach in front and strong drive behind, gained from the flexing of the knee and 
extension of the hock. The Poodle does not have excessive extension. 
The correctly constructed Poodle should move in a straight line with (when viewed from the front) the forelegs parallel and the elbows close to the body. From the rear the hind legs should be parallel. 
The Poodle does not single track, however, at speed the track will converge. A high hackney gait, paddling and overreaching are incorrect. _

The site also has great diagrams and explains the Standard in depth. It is Australian and I don't know how the Standard differs from the US standard but it is still incredibly helpful:

http://www.ankc.org.au/_uploads/docs/5350BSE_Poodle.pdf


----------



## roxy25

Thanks for he read Cbrand I have that same chart in the compete poodle book. I will tape enzo later today and would like people opinions.

I found this while search for Durandel kennels 


Very Educational its about movement and agility  
http://www.ippgazette.com/Issues/V3-4/ConformationStudy.htm


----------



## wishpoo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o02-MYWLQIQ&feature=related

I could be completely wrong (since I do not show or breed poodles), but this dog looks nice "mover" to me 

Yes Roxy-girl : )) - how long you will keep us all here waiting for those photos of your pretty-boy ??? LOL Not fair , honest ! 

CBrand - thanks for the great info and PDF !!!!! Is Cowboy your little guy ??? I LOVE Tommy !!!!


----------



## Cdnjennga

roxy25 said:


> Thanks for he read Cbrand I have that same chart in the compete poodle book. I will tape enzo later today and would like people opinions.
> 
> I found this while search for Durandel kennels
> 
> 
> Very Educational its about movement and agility
> http://www.ippgazette.com/Issues/V3-4/ConformationStudy.htm


Huh, that is really interesting! I guessed the wrong poodle was the best agility dog, I guessed the same as everyone else she asked.


----------



## roxy25

Cdnjennga said:


> Huh, that is really interesting! I guessed the wrong poodle was the best agility dog, I guessed the same as everyone else she asked.



Yes I love that article or whatever you want to call it. really the best agility dog has a good rear but her front is not great . If poodle 1# was not over angulated she would be probably the top dog. If you take poodle #2 rear onto poodle #1 front it would be a nice dog lol. Poodle #2 has correct rear based on the standard. You supposed to take a line starting at the point of rump that should land vertically in front of the feet. ( shown in the pdf on page 4 ) 

I have seen a lot of poodle who are over angulated I never like over angulation with dogs. I have notice over the years of going to dogs shows boxers and dobies have over angulation and I have always discussed this with y sister that these dogs usually do not have powerful rears. It looks flash but IMO its not that functional if you want the dog to work.


----------



## Purple Poodle

Since I will never be able to show, I slacked of on my reading but I am glad this came up! Its been very informational!


----------



## AgilityIG

That's an interesting article - I probably would have picked the wrong dog too, although all of Helen's dogs are very well accomplished agility dogs. She is the one that recommended I contact Karin Benker (where I got Vinnie).


----------



## KPoos

Found this thread after finding the article and thought I'd bump it up. It's a good read.


----------



## Savannah

roxy25 said:


> Yes I love that article or whatever you want to call it. really the best agility dog has a good rear but her front is not great . If poodle 1# was not over angulated she would be probably the top dog. If you take poodle #2 rear onto poodle #1 front it would be a nice dog lol. Poodle #2 has correct rear based on the standard. You supposed to take a line starting at the point of rump that should land vertically in front of the feet. ( shown in the pdf on page 4 )
> 
> I have seen a lot of poodle who are over angulated I never like over angulation with dogs. I have notice over the years of going to dogs shows boxers and dobies have over angulation and I have always discussed this with y sister that these dogs usually do not have powerful rears. It looks flash but IMO its not that functional if you want the dog to work.


I don't know very much at all about conformation, but I've done a little reading in the area, and I find it quite fascinating. I know my Flash is certainly no champion, and I suspect perhaps this rear over-angulation may be a great deal of his problem.

What I know for sure is that he has TERRIBLE movement, and he cannot swim. Poor guy!!! His rear sinks like a stone in the water, and he's left splashing helplessly at the surface with his front feet. The first time we went swimming, I had to drag him out of the water to keep him from drowning! Now he only swims with a life jacket on.
Oh, the embarrassment-- a Standard Poodle, in a LIFE JACKET. Poor Flash.

This kind of breeding should never happen.


----------



## thestars

Pat Hastings does a wonderful day seminar of dog structure. I will do a second just to improve all the notes I took. I attended the Puppy Puzzle.
http://www.dogfolk.com/
Also, K.9 Structure & Terminology by Edward M. Gilbert, Jr. and Thelma R. Brown is a comprehensive and very informative book about structure. Lots of pictures and diagrams to explain it all!!! http://www.dogfolk.com/k9structurebook.htm


----------

