# Breeder input needed..please help



## roulette (Feb 18, 2011)

Unfortunately, I sold a puppy to a person who has chosen to violate our sales contract. Does anyone on the forum have suggestions as to where to start with enforcement of our document? Small claims? Any experience with an issue like this? The purchaser has decided to re-sell the dog, and my contract clearly states she must have my permission (never contacted me) or return the dog to me. Upon my inquiry, she kindly informed me I could "buy" the dog back (for more than he was purchased !) If anyone could guide me through this unpleasant turn of events, I would sincerely appreciate it, and provide any additional details privately. Bummed.


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## Rayah-QualitySPs (Aug 31, 2010)

Contact a lawyer and see if your contract is valid in your state. Here in Ontario, Canada a contract asking for the return of a fully paid for animal is not valid. 

It was explained to me that it was like selling a car and saying if the new buyer does not use premium gas you want/will take the car back. If the car has been paid for their is nothing the old owner can do to get it back.

If you contract states a different penalty because the contract was breached you could go to small claims to make good on the penalty price.

Good luck.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Pets are property in the US. Once you pay for property, it's yours. I don't think there is much you can do, but I agree you should contact a lawyer and ask. Then let us all know.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Most contract law is state law and varies by state. A lawyer can help advise you.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I found this:
The contract reserves the seller's right to repurchase the dog, rather than have the buyer sell to someone else and sets forth the arrangements to secure transfer of the registration after the sale.

___________

It sounds like you can legally get the dog back under your contract, but you would have to purchase the dog for the current market value. If the dog is now a champion stud dog, it would be worth significantly more than when purchased, for example. In other words, I bet the contract is valid for first refusal, but invalid for getting the dog back free. 

Here's an interesting site:

Sales of Pets


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

I think what everyone is saying is right...you might have to chalk it up to lesson learned and change your contract from getting the dog back to being able to sue them for damages or soemthing (which is what I've seen in most contracts)


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Your contract should be updated to say exactly HOW the dog will get back to you and WHO will pay for it.

I don't know where my external hard drive is, but I will get you the language I used in my contracts for placing service dogs. Thankfully I have never had to test it!


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

found it! The contract is like 10 pages long. Here are the bits you might find helpful



> ACCEPTABLE USE. In the event that the Handler is not using the Dog to perform tasks to mitigate the Handler’s disability, the Handler is to immediately return the Dog to the Trainer.
> 
> The Handler may not sell, give away, or loan the Dog to any person, for any reason. To do so is an incurable breach of contract. If for any reason the Hander is unwilling or unable to maintain the Dog’s care, the Handler is to immediately return the Dog to the Trainer. If euthanasia of the dog is desired or recommended, it must be approved by [trainer's business name].





> BREACH OF CONTRACT. In the event the Handler takes action or neglects to take action which results in a breach of contract, the Trainer will notify the Handler of the breach of contract in writing. If the Handler does not cure the default within 30 days of receiving the notice of default, the Trainer reserves the right to repossess the Dog from the Handler, or from any person possessing the Dog.
> 
> In the event the Handler takes action or neglects to take action which results in an incurable breach of contract, the Trainer reserves the right to immediately repossess the Dog from the Handler or from any person possessing the Dog.
> 
> Any and all costs associated with repossessing the Dog, including but to limited to attorney’s fees and court costs, shipping, airfare, mileage, hotel and meals will be paid by the Handler, at Trainer’s option.


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## roulette (Feb 18, 2011)

Unfortunately, Tortoise..I don't believe that your contract is any more enforceable than mine. I am paying a lawyer to redo all my contracts for any future litters. This woman has darkened my inbox for the last time. and although shrouded in claims of health-testing, special needs foster children, and Christian ethics, has proven herself nothing more than a glorified, deceptive, puppy miller. I only wish I had the price she is asking for my puppy so that I could buy him and find him a loving, permanent home. At this point, my hands are tied. I am so disgusted at my own assumption that an abuse/neglect clause would protect my puppy. He was my pick male from that litter and very special. I ran into a nice lady and her young daughter yesterday while out running errands, and they asked to meet my Standard female that was with me. When she inquired about puppies, I realized how shaken I have become through this recent experience..I don't trust anybody anymore..so rather than tell her I have a litter upcoming, i remained silent on the matter. I really tried my best to mediate a resolution with this person, but the more I tried to "do the right thing", the more she crapped on me. So... I will just work harder to protect my pups from bad people, focus on the much bigger percentage of my pups that have wonderful homes, and cherish the relationship I have with my own dogs.. one of value and appreciation for each of their special talents and capacity for love. I'm moving on, but will be better prepared for any obstacle.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

roulette - so sorry you are having to go through this. It must be tough to be an ethical breeder. Sunny's breeder, told me a story about selling one of her pups to a woman, etc. and later finding out through acquaintances that the pup was not being taken care of correctly, etc., and that the woman may sell the dog. Her contract, also, required that if the person was unable to keep the dog, it was to be returned to the breeder -- or, if the owner had someone that she wanted to give the dog to, the breeder would need to approve. The breeder was so upset and said that in her entire time of breeding that one situation has made her lose sleep at night --- her baby, she kept referring to the pup. I empathized with her --- heck, I'd probably never think the person was "right" for my pups......especially if money is not your purpose for breeding, ultimately. Again, so sorry.


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## Kloliver (Jan 17, 2012)

Roulette,

Do you think that your local Poodle Rescue group & animal shelters will pitch in to make up the difference in the upsell price the 'owner' is asking for? Maybe you don't have to be as out of pocket as you think. What did you sell the puppy for & what is she asking for now?

At the very least, reporting this incident to the local orgs. will give this woman a black mark so they have some idea who they may be dealing with in the future.


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## roulette (Feb 18, 2011)

Thanks for the sympathy and support y'all. I apologize for my dark rant...fresh wound. I'll heal. :messed:


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## Melodyp77 (Mar 4, 2012)

roulette said:


> Unfortunately, Tortoise..I don't believe that your contract is any more enforceable than mine. I am paying a lawyer to redo all my contracts for any future litters. This woman has darkened my inbox for the last time. and although shrouded in claims of health-testing, special needs foster children, and Christian ethics, has proven herself nothing more than a glorified, deceptive, puppy miller. I only wish I had the price she is asking for my puppy so that I could buy him and find him a loving, permanent home. At this point, my hands are tied. I am so disgusted at my own assumption that an abuse/neglect clause would protect my puppy. He was my pick male from that litter and very special. I ran into a nice lady and her young daughter yesterday while out running errands, and they asked to meet my Standard female that was with me. When she inquired about puppies, I realized how shaken I have become through this recent experience..I don't trust anybody anymore..so rather than tell her I have a litter upcoming, i remained silent on the matter. I really tried my best to mediate a resolution with this person, but the more I tried to "do the right thing", the more she crapped on me. So... I will just work harder to protect my pups from bad people, focus on the much bigger percentage of my pups that have wonderful homes, and cherish the relationship I have with my own dogs.. one of value and appreciation for each of their special talents and capacity for love. I'm moving on, but will be better prepared for any obstacle.



what kind of attorney would do this kind of thing...so i can find one here. i don't want this to happen to me.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

A lawyer familiar with dog breeding and contracts ---- I'd contact your local poodle club, or PCA and ask them for a referral in your area. I would believe it's pretty straight forward.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

roulette said:


> Thanks for the sympathy and support y'all. I apologize for my dark rant...fresh wound. I'll heal. :messed:


For what it's worth (I worked in the legal field for 18 years) I might at least "threaten" her with a civil suit if she goes against the essence of your contract. Depending on how much trouble she wants to deal with, it may work. Better yet, if you can locate a lawyer (quickly) they may actually draft a letter setting forth your position and consequences of her actions. It's worth a try.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

It's surprisingly not complicated. I took a business law class and used to write contract documents in the construction/engineering/architecture business. And I've read ALL the state laws pertaining to pets. I researched and gathered many different contracts. That was what I needed to feel confident writing up an adoption/placement contract. But like I said, I haven't had to test out any of my contracts in mediation or court (yet), so take my advice with a grain of salt.

There are very few lawyers that specialize in dog law. There is one in the Twin Cities, MN, but he is prohibitively expensive. He mostly get involved in cases of local ordinances and pending state laws. BSL and number-of-dog limit laws sort of thing.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

You could try Lawyer, Attorney, Law Firms, Attorneys, Legal Information. Lawyers.com too. Martindale Hubbel, too to find a lawyer; most you can do online these days.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

You also don't need anyone to "specialize in dog law" -- it is a pretty straight contract issue and dogs are considered private property, so contract law would work.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I am so sorry. I could never sale puppies for that very reason. I would be so untrusting that anyone would give my pup the home I wanted for it.


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## Ladywolfe (Jan 11, 2012)

I graduated from law school.....never took the bar exam. This area is NOT simple or easy and straightforward. Definately best to contact an attorney. First off, you cannot simply write anything you wish into a contract and have it upheld. I know most of you realize that, but there are, surprisingly, people who think that they can write down whatever they wish in a contract, and as long as the other party has greed to it and it is signed, it is binding. Well, nothing could be further from the truth.

Then, there is the entire area of what is implied, even without any written document. There are even issues of merchantability that must be addressed. There are even laws that would apply through the UCC. If a contract is unconcsionable, it will not stand and is a waste of paper and time; i.e. unreasonably one sided and written only for the seller's rights, etc.

It has been many years since I graduated............the very least I can say is that anyone who wants a contract that they can rely upon should definately take the steps roulette is taking.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Yeah, there need to be statements about total agreement and separability, for example.

I was taught in my business law class (almost 10 years ago) that 2 parties agree to contract terms that don't violate laws, sign it, and it's legal. Clearly it is more complicated than that or all contracts would be 3 sentences and a signature and there wouldn't be contract lawyers.


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## roulette (Feb 18, 2011)

Am I allowed per posting rules to reveal who is helping me with my contracts?


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

roulette said:


> Am I allowed per posting rules to reveal who is helping me with my contracts?


See rule 8 and 13 in the following set of rules:

Poodle Forum - Standard Poodle, Toy Poodle, Miniature Poodle Forum ALL Poodle owners too! - Announcements in Forum : Poodle Breeding

If you are just providing a name, but not soliciting business for this person, I don't see where it is violating the rules... Just don't add a link to a website or anything.

Hope that helps!

Barb


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## roulette (Feb 18, 2011)

Thank you Barb. I first sought cheap internet legal advice, in which case I found that any "return" of dog to breeder due to contract breach was "unconstitutional". So I searched further, basically looking for something I "wanted" to hear, and located a lawyer that specializes in breeding, show, and co-owning contracts. She shows herself and I figured she would have a deeper understanding of a) my feelings, and b)what is actually enforceable. Her name is Lisa Curry, and she seems quite reliable and informed..has written articles for AKC Gazette, Dog Review, etc...and also speaks to breed clubs on these issues. She has been easy to reach, discuss, and responds to my specific needs, so that is the course I have chosen. I have a litter due late May and am hoping to get it all straight before I ever let another puppy off the property. My ultimate goal is to protect the pups..hope this helps do the trick!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

It sounds like you have a way to stop this happening again. If you get a great contract that is fair for both parties, making both you and the buyer comfortable, I hope you share it here.


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