# Thoughts on Gentle Leader?



## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

I've never in the past considered using a head halter. I found training Bennie to use decent leash manners worked well using a martingale coupled with lots of patience and tasty treats. I would describe her leash manners now at around 15 months old to be pretty okay. For the most part she gets that when she hits the end of the leash, I don't move unless she gives some slack. She gets lots of praise and treats for walking next to me, but I in no way require a perfect heel for much of the walk... I call her to be "with me" every so often, and other wise I just expect a loose leash.

However! I am finding since the snow has fallen, walking is a lot more nerve wracking. She understandably wants to sniff ALLLLLLLLL the tracks and her focus on me is minimal. What I really don't want is her to pull us both over in these conditions. Tasty treats are sort of enticing but it's harder to get those bad boys out fast enough in cold weather 😂

I've tried letting her romp in the backyard first, playing some fetch or just generally playing on a long line, but walking after is just as irritating with the pulling and lack of focus.

I am considering just letting walks go for a bit and playing in the backyard for exercise for a while, coming back to walking in a week or two. Or going back to lots of changes in direction and making more of a game of it to stay with me and keep up w/ what I'm doing. 

But I am also curious about other training aids to support us, such as the Gentle Leader.

Thoughts?


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## Sroodle8 (Dec 23, 2021)

I use a Gentle Leader with Scout. I taught her to jump through hoops (literally) but failed at teaching leash manners. The leader gives me control, particularly important when walking on ice. However, it did not train her to stop pulling. So it kind of covers up the problem rather than solving it. Which works for us, but might not be what you are looking for. It put the fun back into our walks though.


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## Looniesense (Jul 10, 2021)

Boy I hear you on that! Luka has been pulling like a fiend since it snowed. After the first snow last week, my plan was to get him to the dog park early in the morning (6 a.m.) to get the snow zoomies out (condo dweller/no yard) but he got so excited he started barking so I abandoned that plan not wanting to wake up my neighbours (needed to clean the snow off the car to get to the park) so I took him to an industrial street not far away (no traffic) and let him loose. I also had a ball I could kick to start him running. He did get some zoomies in while growling (he growls when he plays). I am hoping with a few chances to get the “New Snow” excitement out he will calm down in a week or so and the walking will get back to normal, but if not, I will also look into getting a halti or gentle leader to make it safe to walk when it’s icy.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I tried one years ago. Babykins detested it. When I walked her in the park people shied away thinking it was a muzzle on a dog that bites. I only used it a few times then abandoned it. I went back to training with treats. 

I have since heard that it may damage a dog’s sense of smell … I haven’t seen any research to verify this.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

With Bennie as young as she is, she might need a few days to figure out she has not been swept away into a fairytale. My guess is her need to look around and sniff is to orient herself to her new environment. Snow is old hat to adults, but children and I imagine young dogs can be transfixed by it. Maybe let her have the sniffy walks instead for several days?


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Annie HATED the gentle leader.

She started running away from me when I took it out and spent the whole walk with her tail and head down, the picture of a depressed poodle. I ended up with a fine pinch collar on her for her first adult winter... My neighbourhood was icy, she was going wild over squirrels, and I couldn't afford to fall, but it was also obvious that the gentle leader wasn't something Annie could handle..

She liked the pinch collar a lot more than the gentle leader -she still comes running to me if I pick it up. I think the pinch collar was an aversive she could control, whereas the gentle leader was constant aversive pressure on her nose. 

Some people love them, and she certainly pulled less and was less enthusiastic with it on but it wasn't a tool that worked for us. 

Might I suggest a walking stick? I find that makes a big difference for confidence on winter walks.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

So much good information! Glad I posted for this.



Sroodle8 said:


> So it kind of covers up the problem rather than solving it. Which works for us, but might not be what you are looking for. It put the fun back into our walks though.


I do want walks to be fun, but I also would just like to train the problem out if possible. If only the cold didn't make producing super yummy treats from my pocket so difficult!!!



Looniesense said:


> “New Snow” excitement





Streetcar said:


> she might need a few days to figure out she has not been swept away into a fairytale. My guess is her need to look around and sniff is to orient herself to her new environment.


And that's just it, right? Maybe it's just the novelty... The Fairytale reference landed pretty well with me. My young kids have been thrilled with the novelty, their cheeks red long after they've been back inside for a while. I hadn't thought of it being an act of orientation. That would make sense! We've only just begun to see the white stuff, so I need to brace myself for when it really starts to come down and stick around. 



For Want of Poodle said:


> Might I suggest a walking stick? I find that makes a big difference for confidence on winter walks.


Bennie still sort of zigs and zags, and I have to switch hands with the leash to keep from being tangled 😂 So a walking stick may not be the tool for me quite yet. She has a habit of going around me.... she'll go to the end of the leash, remember that makes everything stop, come bounding back, but twenty-five percent of the time will bound all the way around me 🤷‍♀️

I don't want to break her spirit, that's for sure. And to be honest, I'm not really up for training with a new tool either. And I hadn't stopped to think about the reality that it would probably take me training her to even be accustomed to the Gentle Leader. I'm full time grad studies right now... every single spare moment needs to be considered and I'd rather it be enjoyable than not. 

...Which means, I think we'll spend a while just enjoying the backyard and make a gradual return to walks. I'll have to brainstorm some ways to make procuring treats a little more pleasant for my numb/cold fingers.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

BennieJets said:


> I'll have to brainstorm some ways to make procuring treats a little more pleasant for my numb/cold fingers.


Have you tried carrying string cheese? When I’m in a situation where it’s tricky to break off small pieces, I will just hold the whole thing in my hand and let Peggy take a nibble off the end.


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

Would a front clip harness work? We had one for a while but Oona outgrew it. My experience is that they can pull harder than in the Gentle Leader, but not as hard as the collar or rear clip harness. And it turns them around when they pull. We have a Gentle Leader for Oona but I rarely use it. I bought it thinking my parents could use it to have more control if she got really excited, reactive or chase-y when we visited but hadn't progressed enough in acclimating her to it for them to use it. She hated it and tried to rub it off, but after a bunch of gradual practice she will walk with it without protesting too much. I've basically only used it gradually for practice and once or twice as a management tool when we were walking with a very exciting friend of my kid's. For us, it's a good tool to have available for those extra exciting situations. I wish I had had it at the cottage last summer when Oona went bananas for bunnies, practically pulling my shoulder out.


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## TyrannicalTrix (5 mo ago)

Personally I'm not a fan of either gentle leader nor front clip harness. Both disrupt a natural gait, but if you were to go with one or the other, my vote is with the front clip due to safety alone.


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

My mpoo was very leash reactive and the trainer (positive reinforcement based) of the class we were taking in 2003 suggested I use a gentle leader on him. I spent a lot of time trying to desensitize him to it, but I was never able to get him to accept it. He absolutely detested it, and it got to the point that as soon as he saw it in my hand he ran and hid. That's when I knew it was definitely time to stop trying to use the head halter.

Based on my own experience, I would not recommend a gentle leader, although I know some dogs are fine with a head halter.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I just stumbled upon this timely Instagram reel, from a double-certified trainer who demonstrates training a dog to yield to very gentle leash pressure: Instagram

It’s actually blowing my mind, as I realize I’ve only ever actively reinforced a _loose_ leash. But of course a taut leash gets reinforced alllllll the time, in all the wrong ways, by a stimulating environment.  So I can see why it some days feels like a losing battle. I’m excited to work on this now!


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## TyrannicalTrix (5 mo ago)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I just stumbled upon this timely Instagram reel, from a double-certified trainer who demonstrates training a dog to yield to very gentle leash pressure: Instagram
> 
> It’s actually blowing my mind, as I realize I’ve only ever actively reinforced a _loose_ leash. But of course a taut leash gets reinforced alllllll the time, in all the wrong ways, by a stimulating environment.  So I can see why it some days feels like a losing battle. I’m excited to work on this now!


YES !!! I wish more people realized this, leash pressure should become a cue !!!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

TyrannicalTrix said:


> YES !!! I wish more people realized this, leash pressure should become a cue !!!


I’ve always been taught to avoid anything but a slack “J,” which isn’t always realistic. Watching this trainer work has just dramatically shifted my perspective! Check it out, @BennieJets. I think Peggy is going to love working on this. Maybe Bennie will dig it, too.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Since your concern here is safety, I would start by getting yourself some kind of studs or cleats for your winter boots. For the most part I prefer the Tingley overshoe, especially for boilerplate ice conditions. The studs are well distributed around the sole and really bite into the ice. The overshoe itself stays on your boots even if you are putting some torque on it. I prefer Yaktrax for hard packed snow. The coils provide a bit more stability than short studs in wet packed snow. However, it is possible to hook the Yaktrax on a stick buried under the snow and pop the whole thing off your foot.

As for head collars, I've been using one on Ritter since he went into his dog reactive phase upon hitting adolescence. I use a regular 1" leash on his flat collar and a very thin, around 3/8", leash on his head collar. The idea with the very light leash is that I want as little pressure on his snout as possible when he is being a good dog. However, I don't fully trust the clip on a lightweight leash to survive a 70 pound dog throwing a tantrum. Therefore, I use two leashes on him. Under normal conditions I use voice commands or his regular leash for most cues and guidance; I let the leash to the head collar hang loose. However, when he's having a meltdown or blowing me off, I use the head collar to get his attention and stop him from dragging me.

The three that I own are the Halti, the Gentle Leader, and the Black Dog Training Halter. These days I'm mostly using the Halti. I like the slightly broader noseband, as I think it does a better job of distributing the weight of the leash. Below are photos of each with Ritter modeling them. You'll notice I have the cord locks of all three devices, the Black Dog in particular, set quite loose. I'm not trying to tie his mouth shut. I want him to be able to pant, eat treats, and use his mouth normally when I'm not putting pressure on the leash. 
First, the Halti.


















Next, the Gentle Leader

















Finally, the Black Dog Training Halter


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

Thanks @PeggyTheParti for introducing this topic. I'm now interested in trying this type of training and just found this article on leash pressure training that might be of interest to others.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

I used a halti with my last bull terrier. It was very helpful for being able to control him when he was being a knucklehead. We used it a short time. He didn’t mind it at all.


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## beowoof (Dec 6, 2021)

for winter treats i like using a squeeze bottle or small condiment bottle with filled with something wet and stinky. simpler to maneuver while leaving my gloves on, and Kirby finds the paste (wet food) yummy to get a quick lick of on the go. i tend to put the stinky tube right at my knee where i want him to find the most value. 

Kirby is far from a perfect (or even good walker) and most days i find myself with the simple goal of keeping my arms the same length. one big game changer during adolescence was teaching Kirby to catch treats midair. it made the process of giving treats outside more interesting and challenging for him which helped keep the focus. i'm admittedly not great at tossing bits of string cheese or boiled chicken accurately, but he likes to catch them more than take the treat straight from my hand. i practiced at home for a few days, then outside in my hallway, then in the lobby to get him accustomed to the "treat toss quick focus" game more reliably.


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## Miki (Dec 25, 2021)

I trained with gentle leaders for my spoos Mike and Tucker, and it was very useful. The first training center where I trained each of them (late 90s, early 2000s) required choke chains or pinch collars - nothing positive. The second training center used gentle leaders - and the difference was miraculous. I am a short, squat person who needed to move my boyz safely and securely and the gentle leader made that possible for us. 

This pic is at the end of a 5K walk for our local Humane Society with hundreds of other critters and








their peeps. Their Big Hair attracted a ton of attention (😂😂😂😂), not surprisingly.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

Miki- what a stunning pic! The matching head tilts just add a perfect touch.

BennieJets- I've used many of the various tools on my dogs over the years, and any I haven't, I've used on dogs that came in the clinic. The best tool depends on the dog and the handler, but they do require training to use properly- for the average poodle it won't take much time, but probably longer for the handler!
I do like the Gentle Leader, and used properly it can be an excellent training tool. My mastiff had very low sensitivity, various collars had no effect, but the Gentle Leader allowed me to train her well enough that my then-6 year old could walk her. What I like about the Gentle Leader over the other head halters, is that when training was going well, on a good day I would just slip the nose band off and only use the upper neck/throat band portion. As long as that is snug (2 fingers) the nose band can be quite loose. It was a good progression towards using a normal collar, and also gave me the option to put it back on if she was having a difficult day or we were going to approach something more distracting. 
She loved seeing the Gentle Leader come out as it meant a fun walk- my previous dogs that I used it on also were fine with it. I think it makes a difference if you fully commit at least at the beginning, to using it every single time as that helps makes a positive connection. Plus of course the first times being proper training sessions with tons of treats- you do not want to be pulling the dog around by it's head!
Leash pressure training comes into play here as well.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

As far as other tools; 
Prong collars can be an excellent tool used properly (I originally learned about leash pressure training from Leerburg when learning how to introduce a prong collar) but take more training for handler and dog than the Gentle Leader, imo.
I don't think I will ever be convinced that training a large dog with any sort of harness is more effective, or even as effective, as putting in the same amount of effort on a neclnor head collar. And I've certainly seen people dragged around by their dogs on no-pull harnesses too!

The tool I used with excellent results for Raffi is a training collar (sound and vibration modes only). A tap on the vibration (set on low for Raffi as he is a sensitive soul) b_efore_ he hit the end of the leash would make him pause, and I could then reward his continued loose leash without having my arm yanked.

I would also recommend that you put some focus into teaching Bennie to keep on one side of you. Having been through many winters with dogs to walk, some years also pregnant, or with a baby in a carrier or stroller, I have learned that is a necessity for safety! It's actually now my first priority in leash training a new puppy. I have two dogs trained to stay on the left, and one on the right. When they are on loose leash they can move in front, side, or behind but NEVER allowed to cross over. I only had to trip once to learn that lesson!


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I’ve always been taught to avoid anything but a slack “J,” which isn’t always realistic. Watching this trainer work has just dramatically shifted my perspective! Check it out, @BennieJets. I think Peggy is going to love working on this. Maybe Bennie will dig it, too.


This is great information! Kind of reminds me, now that I think of it, of something I watched with Kikopup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKG89GVOJiM 

I think for the most, Bennie has been conditioned to know when the leash is tight she needs to move back toward me. She tends to hit the end and then come bouncing back. But right now, we're at this pinball stage of her doing it pretty continuously and in all directions. 

Perhaps I will try to do some of this training indoors though, to keep reinforcing the message that being with me is valuable, and a tight leash is the message to come on back my way.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Starvt said:


> I would also recommend that you put some focus into teaching Bennie to keep on one side of you. Having been through many winters with dogs to walk, some years also pregnant, or with a baby in a carrier or stroller, I have learned that is a necessity for safety! It's actually now my first priority in leash training a new puppy. I have two dogs trained to stay on the left, and one on the right. When they are on loose leash they can move in front, side, or behind but NEVER allowed to cross over. I only had to trip once to learn that lesson!


I agree, "Stay in your lane" is a really important concept in leash training. Pogo clotheslined me from behind when he was half grown. He crossed behind me and then shot forward. I ended up flat on my back. That's why walking at heel was one of the first training games I played with Galen. I have also been pretty strict about letting Galen cross behind me when he's not walking at heel.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

BennieJets said:


> Perhaps I will try to do some of this training indoors though, to keep reinforcing the message that being with me is valuable, and a tight leash is the message to come on back my way.


Good idea. In the winter, especially, those indoor sessions can help drain a poodle battery. And I think if gentle pressure is consistently rewarded, you should see Bennie going to the end of the leash less frequently. That’s my hope with Peggy, at least. 😅 She often does what you described Bennie doing: hits the end and then bounces back.

That Instagram link I shared shows the lightest pressure and immediate release. It’s pretty masterful. So fun to watch. I’ve never felt pulled (no pun intended!) to Malinois trainers on social media. But this one has a different vibe.


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## BBVidya (6 mo ago)

You might find a pinch collar stops pulling without hurting your dog or aggravating your pup with something around the snout.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

UPDATE: First of all, I didn't thank everyone individually when I first posted this. But I am VERY grateful for all of the input.

The snow has since disappeared and Bennie's walking behaviour has gone back to baseline... meaning, we have work to do yet but it's manageable. I am working on not allowing her to run all the way around me, as that was an issue before. Smart girl has caught on quickly. I do wish that I didn't have to treat as much as I do given the cold. But she deserves to know when I like what she's doing.

We'll see what happens when the snow returns. Lots of patience as she explores a whole new world again, I presume 

ETA OH, and something for my traction as well... I always plan to order some type of Yak Track, and I never do. But this year I certainly will. I trained for a marathon one winter and managed without them. But an exuberant pup + ice? Nooooo thanks.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Oooh! Good call on the Yak Trax! I had a nasty fall walking the neighbours’ dog on icy roads. Luckily, he’s a heavy-boned doodle, who’s trained for service work. He very patiently provided physical and emotional support as I got myself back up. 😓

Glad to hear Bennie’s doing so well. I agree treating in the cold is a pain. I’ve been relying almost exclusively on unwrapped string cheese.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Oooh! Good call on the Yak Trax! I had a nasty fall walking the neighbours’ dog on icy roads. Luckily, he’s a heavy-boned doodle, who’s trained for service work. He very patiently provided physical and emotional support as I got myself back up. 😓
> 
> Glad to hear Bennie’s doing so well. I agree treating in the cold is a pain. I’ve been relying almost exclusively on unwrapped string cheese.


I’m going to give your string cheese idea a try tomorrow  
And we’ve been doing leash pressure games too, which I think also helps!!

I fell last winter, out on a very icy trail. I’m so lucky that it wasn’t a terrible fall because of it being pretty far out of the way of help!


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## Sroodle8 (Dec 23, 2021)

A bark pouch would work as a cold weather treat. I think you could give it while wearing gloves.


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