# Poop Troubles



## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

Asher is a beautiful, energetic, healthy dog (7months old) who is in good weight, eats well and drinks well but I just can't get nice solid consistent poops out of him. 
He's similar to the family Doberman except where the Doberman always seems to have soft to extra soft poop Asher's tends to run the gambit from relatively solid to really runny. For the Doberman he couldnt have too rich a food. On a mid level food he stays about a softly formed consistency. 
I think he's always been a bit like this but it seems like a thing 6 months old it got more inconsistent and less likely to have good poops. He also seems to poop a lot. I feed him twice a day but he was pooping 3-4 times a day. 
About 2.5 weeks ago I added a coat and skin supplement as he had had an issue with having some dander issues around his neck and was often scratching a bit in that area. He seems to not scratch anymore and the dander seems to be gone but the lady who sold it to me said to not have him on any oils or whatever as this stuff had enough fat in it and you wouldn't want to be having extra fat. Which was fine cause I didn't have him on any oils or anything. 
About eight days ago I decided to try raw food because you always here how poops are smaller and tighter on raw so he has been getting one kibble meal and one raw meal (store bought patties) to start switching him over. 
Well so far it certainly isn't helping. When I first started him in it I thought his poop was quite mucousy though maybe that was from the newish supplement and I don't think it's mucousy anymore but it still runs the gambit from good to plop. Just today in the evening he finally had a really nice poop. The type of poop that you want to have. I thought ok maybe his tummy has finally gotten the idea with the raw food and he'll start having these poops more consistently. Well then he pooped twice more that evening, once was a solid but very small poop, the other I'm not sure exactly how it was. And then (and then reason I anchor writings rhis at 5 in the morning) he woke me up cause he had to go out and have diarrhea. 
He's never had diarrhea so bad he couldn't hold it and went in the house (well once I guess when he was around 10 weeks old) but I just can't get a nice poop out of him with any consistency though I do feel it's gotten worse when he hit 6 months. 
I have a big order of raw food I'm supposed to be picking up Saturday and now I'm not sure if I want to continue. Maybe he just needs to get over the hump of getting used to a new food and may end once he does he'll get the right poops you are supposed to have with raw. But maybe it's not doing anything at all to help or maybe even is hindering and then it's not worth it. It's not very much more expensive than the kibble I have mostly had him on (acana) but it is a bit more of a pain to feed with making sure to have it unfrozen to feed and such. 
When I talked to my breeder about his dandruffy spot she said that she used to feed acana but she felt the protein was too high and causing some issues and so she switched her dogs to pedigree pro. Now to me pedigree would feel like a low quality food but maybe that's what he needs. Maybe he's like my Doberman and needs the less rich food to have decent poops. And my breeders dogs are gorgeous with beautiful coats, good skin, and good muscle tone. My dog's sire was the #1 all breed dog in the country a couple years back (conformation) so she knows what she is doing. Asher has been on that food off and on but I don't know if I saw any correlation with good poops or not. 

So that was mostly a lot of rambling but what are everyone's thoughts? Does anyone have a dog like Asher who is difficult to get a Nice poop on? What did you do that helped? Should I try the raw for a month and see if he can get used to it and get good poops or should I try a lower quality/less rich food and see if that should help? 
I used to feed yogurt everyday but I don't think he had consistent poops then either.


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I feel for you - it is so hard when you try to do the best thing and find things getting worse instead of better. While I think it can certainly take dogs time to adjust to any change of diet, I have never really believed in the diarrhoea as detox theory. I would be tempted to cancel the raw order if you can, and try your breeder's recommendation. But I would also suspect an intolerance to one or more ingredients - Sophy reacts like this to turkey. Perhaps trying a limited ingredient food, and watching treats, chews and anything else he eats, would help you to narrow down the cause. It could be something as common as chicken, which turns up in most foods in one form or another.


----------



## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

I have a couple of thoughts. First off, I just came back from vacation and had to switch Hans back from the kibble/canned he was eating on vacation to his normal 1/2 kibble, 1/2 raw meals. I tried going straight back to his normal complete grind (includes organs and a decent amount of fat), but that lead to a week of soft stools. I ended up using skinless rabbit quarters (with bone) and skinless chicken breasts (no skin to lower the fat, no bone) until he had normal stools. So he may need to start with low fat, no organs while he gets used to the raw diet. Also, Hans gets diarrhea if he's had too much food, so smaller portions might be worth a try. 

Personally, because I've had dogs with food sensitivities in the past, I would also want to rule that out. Either by elimination diets or testing.


----------



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Getting the Nutriscan would be a great first start.

I've found the best foods for a dog with a sensitive stomach to be: Purina Pro Plan Skin & Stomach, Royal Canin High Energy, and, a higher quality option, Nulo salmon. All have passed the Fiona test!


----------



## shell (Jul 10, 2015)

Two out of my three dogs had digestive issues. One of them severe. I battled this for years and used all kinds of premium foods and all that. I totally understand where you are coming from. Right now they are on Science Diet. Addison is on the puppy formula-I couldn't find anything else she could keep solid poop on. With our next bag I am thinking of going to their Ideal balance line. 


My other dog who had really severe issues on premium kibbles is on Science Diet sensitive stomach and skin or something of that nature-I have seen a huge change in him, which was a miracle in itself.

I realize the rating websites are not friendly to science diet and there are lots of people who have strong feelings against it. (I used to be one of them.) But this food is working for us-our old vet who never pushed food said that he saw a crazy amount of cases of dogs with digestive issues on premium brands go away when they went on science diet.

I just know it's working and my dogs aren't gassy and miserable.

You could also look into home cooking maybe, if you do, I recommend checking out Dr. Judy Morgan and her books about using Chinese medicine theory. She does a lot of crock pot recipes and teaches you how to build your own recipes. I'm kinda debating on going her route for my IVDD dog to see if it can help him some how.

I think Poodlebeguiled has a lot of info on raw feeding so she can probably give you input on that. I think we have a couple of raw feeders.


----------



## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

Do you know what is in the pre made raw patties? I personally don't care for them because they're usually not the right ratio of meat/bone/organ, many are full of fruit and veggies as cheap fillers, and they often use cheap meat sources such as lung or trachea. You really don't know what's in them. Generally when switching to raw, you would start the dog on one protein and slowly add in new proteins one at a time to both allow the dog to adjust and to watch for any protein reactions. Then you would add organs in after the dog has adjusted to a few different proteins. If you're just feeding pre made patties that already have multiple proteins and/or organs, he gets no time to adjust. Plus he's also getting kibble mixed in. Some dogs might not be able to handle that. If it were my dog, I'd pick one or the other, a different kibble or raw, and stick with it for a while. If you decide to go raw, start with one protein, bone-in, and stick with just that for a week or so until poops look good. Make sure your meat sources are free of added sodium/enhancements too. I can't help with kibble as I haven't fed it for a few years. Hope you get him sorted out


----------



## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

Thanks guys. 
So I think what I have decided to try for right now is to fully try the raw chicken. Till now he was still on some kibble at the same time as the raw. Today I used up the last of the kibble so now he'll be straight on the raw. So I'm going to see if this helps.
Once the order comes in he'll be on a chicken food that contains "75% Chicken & Bone, 10% Tripe, 5% Heart, 5% Spleen/Kidney, 5% Liver." No fillers fruit or veggies and the animals are raised within the province I live. It does still contain organs, but would he just get used to them in a week or 2? 
If his poop doesn't tighten up after a couple weeks of that then I think I'll try my other dogs food which is fish based and see if that helps as it's an odd protein, and if not maybe try testing or elimination diet. 
If he wasn't totally fine in every other way I'd be more concerned and probably go to the vet and get testing and such. I do want to get it fixed but I don't feel it's too terrible a rush unless it gets worse where he isn't able to hold it or has other issues.


----------



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Sounds like a good plan. Hope Asher gets on the road to good poops


----------



## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

Do you know what the bone % is in the mix? Dogs differ in their need for bone, so if you're feeding a pre made mix, you may need to add meat or possibly add bone depending on how stools look. They also tend to need more bone initially and then their need for bone to keep stools firm tends to decrease as they adjust. Also keep in mind that long term he should be eating more than one protein source, ideally 3+. Dogs should be eating predominantly red meat. I'd try him on bone in chicken for a week, then maybe try to add in another protein or 2 like beef or pork over a few weeks before you start that mix with organs, especially since he's already having poop issues. I think if you rush it, you won't fix the issue and may make it worse. If you run into any issues, feel free to message me. PB also feeds raw and can help too.


----------



## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

Thanks guys. He had a really nice poop this morning. I will see how he is in a couple days being fully on the raw and if he is still having funky poops I will try your suggestions oshag!! I'm crossing fingers that this will smooth things out.


----------



## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

Mysticrealm said:


> Thanks guys. He had a really nice poop this morning. I will see how he is in a couple days being fully on the raw and if he is still having funky poops I will try your suggestions oshag!! I'm crossing fingers that this will smooth things out.


It can take some time on raw both for the dog to adjust and for you to learn what your dog needs. For example, Asaah can tolerate a whole meal of turkey hearts, but if I fed that to Finn he would  everywhere! Also make sure you aren't overfeeding. That can cause loose poops both with raw and kibble. I had that issue with Finn on kibble before I switched him to raw and cutting his portions by just 1/2 cup helped. 

Let me know if you need anything! Chicken leg quarters are a good place to start - that gives you the thigh for less bone and the leg for more, or the whole thing for something in between. Plus they come in 10 lb bags that are usually low sodium and pretty affordable. I buy a bunch when they go on sale.


----------



## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

I have been dealing with on and off very soft stools for about 2 months now with Luke (in the beginning about a month straight of horrible stools). Lots of tests, lots of meds, lots of ups and downs, lots of smelly gas! What is working for us now is a prescription food and some Tylan powder. After a couple more weeks of giving his poor system a break, I will try to slowly add back in some regular food and see how it goes. 

For us it all started after I had to board him at a kennel (yes, we have tested several times for parasites). Hope your boy clears up soon!


----------



## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

Thanks guys. So his last several poops have looked quite good. I don't think he's had any diarrhea poops since he has been fully on raw. His poops are small with that whitish color, but he does not seem constipated or anything. With his poops now firming up I can feel a bit more hopeful that I could mix up his proteins more. Before I was just worried that giving him anything else might cause diarrhea again and he may have too sensitive a stomach.

However he is having a bit of an issue. Every time he eats his raw food (I'm currently giving 0.5lbs morning and 1lbs night, which is 0.5lbs less than is recommended for a normal puppy) he mini pukes/burps. This can happen up to a 3 or 4 hours after eating usually when he's playing around or something (jostling his tummy contents), and usually he pukes up a bit (like a tablespoon maybe) of raw food colored liquid, or the very odd time teenie chunks of the raw food (like maybe a nickel sized amount total) and this morning he did actually puke up (immediately after eating) about 1/5th of his breakfast. His stomach can also be quite noisy. He's still acting 100% normal, happy, energetic, etc. He doesn't seem to be scarfing it down though he definitely eats it enthusiastically. Any guesses as to why he has these mini pukes/burps?


----------



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Molly has done the upchucking thing a few times and it is usually if she has swallowed large chunks of meat without chewing them enough, or if she eats too much or too fast.......it's pretty disgusting when she re-eats it LOL!!!
As far as Asher's poops being white.......that usually means too much bone but not a big deal if he is not constipated and it's not an everyday thing! We get a wht poop now and then too!
Maybe try going back to 3 small meals a day rather than the 2 larger ones might help.....


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Poppy will regurgitate immediately after a meal if she has swallowed big chunks or eaten too fast, and will vomit sometime later if she has eaten too much. I'd try smaller meals more frequently, as Molly suggests, and perhaps a little more meat to bone, or a very little more organ.


----------



## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

Decrease the bone a little bit. You want firm poop but it shouldn't really be white or crumbly when he goes. He may also need 3 meals a day for a while until he adjusts, and I know many who have had some luck adding some raw apple cider vinegar to the meal for a while, though I haven't tried it. They can also get pukey if they have a belly full of undigested bone, so I think backing off on the bone content a bit will help with that. It takes them time for their stomach to adjust to digest stuff like bone. If it's an issue with not chewing up his food, try feeding large pieces that he can't swallow whole. Like think whole leg quarters or even a half or whole chicken with some boneless meat added since those things are all kind of bony. Let him eat about a meal's worth and then take it up until the next meal.


----------



## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

Thanks guys. Whitish was maybe the wrong word. I just meant that you could tell he had eaten bone. IT was a bit lighter in color. Not really crumbly, definitely still...moist (ew haha).
He'll be on a new mix soon so we'll see if that helps. I will also try to break up his meals a bit and see if that helps. Yesterday's breakfast was the first time he actually puked right after eating and it could have been from eating a big piece or something. I'll keep you guys updated


----------

