# Maddie's Dam



## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

She is a purdy lady. I can't believe how petiete toy Poodles are. They look smaller then Eli's nose. lol


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## mercymoon (Aug 29, 2008)

JENN SECRETO said:


> She is a purdy lady. I can't believe how petiete toy Poodles are. They look smaller then Eli's nose. lol


Thank you, but she is a miniature.


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## Sivaro (Sep 19, 2008)

mercymoon said:


> Thank you, but she is a miniature.



Are you sure? If she isnt through proper registration she could be toy x mini. She has alot of toy features. Pretty gal though all the same.


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## mercymoon (Aug 29, 2008)

Sivaro said:


> Are you sure? If she isnt through proper registration she could be toy x mini. She has alot of toy features. Pretty gal though all the same.


Yeah, could be...but she seems to be the right height and weight of
a miniature. Hmmm...I'll get some more pictures up.
Thanks!


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## Sivaro (Sep 19, 2008)

The height and weight doesnt matter, I get heaps of dogs coming in for grooming that still can hit height. But you can still see toy in them.


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## rmillstein (May 26, 2008)

I thought the AKC defined the toy, miniature, and standard purely by height at the shoulder and nothing else.

From http://www.akc.org/breeds/poodle/index.cfm: 

Standard: over 15 inches tall at the shoulder; Miniature: over 10 but under 15 inches; Toy: 10 inches or under.​
and then:

The Standard Poodle is over 15 inches at the highest point of the shoulders. Any Poodle which is 15 inches or less in height shall be disqualified from competition as a Standard Poodle.

Poodle (Miniature) The Miniature Poodle is 15 inches or under at the highest point of the shoulders, with a minimum height in excess of 10 inches. Any Poodle which is over 15 inches or is 10 inches or less at the highest point of the shoulders shall be disqualified from competition as a Miniature Poodle.

The Toy Poodle is 10 inches or under at the highest point of the shoulders. Any Poodle which is more than 10 inches at the highest point of the shoulders shall be disqualified from competition as a Toy Poodle.​
But someone will have to explain this to me:

As long as the Toy Poodle is definitely a Toy Poodle, and the Miniature Poodle a Miniature Poodle, both in balance and proportion for the Variety, diminutiveness shall be the deciding factor when all other points are equal.​


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## mercymoon (Aug 29, 2008)

She's not AKC though, so it is possible she could be a cross like Sivaro said,
but she is still very pretty either way.


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## rmillstein (May 26, 2008)

Well, here's my thinking. Poodles are one breed, not three different breeds. If you mate a miniature with a toy, what do you get? If the offspring grows to less than 10", it's a toy. If it's between 10" and 15" inches, it's a miniature. It's just like mating a tall person with a short person - the offspring might be short, tall, or in between, but it's not a different type of person, any more than toy is a different type of poodle. Again, they are all the same breed, just different sizes. There may be some correlations between size and other traits (similar to what I was saying in the other thread), but those don't define mini or toy (or standard for that matter).


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

I agree with Millstein. A person may have two larger toys. So when you breed two larger toys you get puppies that are miniature height but toy features.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

I would call her a large Toy. Like Sivaro said she has mostly Toy features but is bigger then what a Toy should be. 

Anyway she is cute.


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## Sivaro (Sep 19, 2008)

JENN SECRETO said:


> I agree with Millstein. A person may have two larger toys. So when you breed two larger toys you get puppies that are miniature height but toy features.


No its not actually. I have a toy that is over 11 inchs. He produces from 9 to 10 1/2 inchs. Its whats in the lines. I have seen sire and dam of small size producing big. Some ppl look at it well this male is small so I will use it on my bigger bitch so I can produce smaller. It doesnt work that way, he may have big dogs behind the line and he may be one of say 11 pups born out of 3 litters that is the only small one on the ground. So if there is big behind the lines, and he is put to a big bitch (big behind lines), well they will have big kids.


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## mercymoon (Aug 29, 2008)

Purple Poodle said:


> I would call her a large Toy. Like Sivaro said she has mostly Toy features but is bigger then what a Toy should be.
> 
> Anyway she is cute.


Thank you!


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