# Fozzie/Raw/Vet etc



## FozziesMom (Jun 23, 2010)

Hi all,

As promised in the "fozzie sick" thread I'm opening up a post on the raw food part of the vet's opinion for discussion.

First the background:

Food:

Primal Raw Beef ~3.5 oz x 2 per day
3 meals a week, every other day: half raw chicken thigh bone in
3 meals a week, half raw chicken thigh no bone

Fozzie was sick on a* friday,* so here's the meal time table leading up to that. 

*Wed: *normal primal beef both meals, normal bowels (up until the "incident" his stools were not chalky, but were firm, fairly hard, and small, twice a day. Which I thought was normal. 
*Thurs am*: primal beef, bowel movement *Thurs Pm: * 1/2 chicken thigh with bone
*Friday am*: would not eat. a bit lethargic. Was stretching hind legs a lot and walking oddly. Thought he needed to poo first (happens a lot, won't eat until he poos). Took him out, no poo after 20 mins. brough back inside in case it was just that he had to pee. No dice. tried plain raw chicken (wouldn't eat), tried pumpkin (he HATES pumpkin, won't even eat pumpkin dog treats); tried cooked chicken (ate a bit). Took him for a 45 min walk (he will usually poo a few mins in). He was a bit lethargic on the walk but generally moved well. Kept trying to eat grass, lots and lots of grass. Shortly after we got back, tried feeding again. no dice. he had a drink of water, then promptly vomited the entire undigested contents of his stomach, very watery. Grass, undigested chicken, and half eaten dog treats (which he would take). 

I thought, well maybe he just had something he needed to get rid of. A few minutes later he took another drink of water, and vomited up more digested food/chunks, and he looked really lethargic and bad. 

So, we head off to the vet. After all the tests, which you know the story of, there's no diagnosis. But this vet was convinced Fozzie should eat cooked chicken and rice to rest his stomach for a few days, which I did. He's now back on primal beef and doing fine, after I phased out the rice for the last few days. Poos are now larger and softer and more voluminous. I should say, as Schnauzerpoodle can attest, that this vet is very good, but she is a bit weird about raw diets and against them for dogs, citing concerns Not about nutrition. about salmonella and camphylobacteria. 

So....what now? Do I keep feeding raw chicken thighs? did I do something wrong? I really believe in raw, and I'm thinking about what's next. I'm looking into buying my own meat/organ (or primal meat mix) and using Sojourn to flesh out, etc. 

I think the answer is to keep feeding the thigh, but compliment with pumpkin mixed in on the meals before and after the chicken. 

Advice, thoughts, further resources all greatly appreciated. And if you read this far, I am grateful, already!:adore:


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Is there any possibility he picked up anything else to eat, either out on a walk or at home?


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

How big was that chicken thigh?

I am feeding Nickel 4oz of Primal beef per meal. When I substitute his Primal meal with RMB, I try to feed something around that portion size (below 4oz).

Do you think the chicken thigh was too meaty too much for Fozzie and his system was a little overloaded? Do you think feeding him several chicken necks would, you know, ease him into the whole meaty bone diet?

If you have the time and energy, I think it's always good to prepare your own raw meals for him. It's going to be cheaper too. I know I don't so I choose to feed him pre-made ones together with RMB on weekends. I think Primal has a pretty good bone/meat ratio. I feed RMB mostly for his teeth. 

FYI, I fed Nickel dehydrated raw (Sojo, Honest Kitchen) before. I think they are better than some 4-star kibbles but after I switched to Primal, I can really see the difference. Yes, it's that obvious.

I am sorry I don't know enough to help. I am sure others who are more experienced will chime in.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I am certainly not an expert, but I am wondering if smaller amounts of bone, but perhaps slightly more often, might be the answer? That is assuming his illness was due to getting too bunged up by the bone. If it was a bug, then it could have been caught from food, or another dog, or just sniffing around, so need not affect what you feed him.

Perhaps you could try the chunks of meat with a little ground eggshell for calcium - although I suspect trying to hold one end of a hunk of raw tripe while he gnaws on the other may be the sort of experience you would not wish to repeat too often!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Running out the door so I don't have time for a detailed response...

When I fed pre-made raw, I found that it was a bit bone-heavy (higher than the 10% that I feed with a prey model diet). I was not able to feed RMBs with _my dogs_ combined with the pre-made without *major* constipation. I can only add boneless meat if I ever choose to feed pre-made. If you are going to supplement RMBs with pre-made, I would suggest also feeding a boneless meal prior to the RMB.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Very good point, CM - the mince I feed is 10% bone, and the chunks bone free, so our feeding programme is probably a lot lighter on bone overall than FM's.


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## FozziesMom (Jun 23, 2010)

SUCH an excellent point Chocolate Millie. going to take you up on this. I was feeding the (mostly) boneless meal the next meal. but doing it before makes sense. Going to try that.


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