# Sticky  Why performance Activities are Good for You and Your Dog



## Bizzeemamanj

Hi Catherine!

I am definitely interested! As you may have read before, I'm starting some agility training with Cooper and we both love it so far. I'm so curious about all there is out there for us.

I think with Cooper's energy level, smarts (he's a real thinking dog when he's focused) and easy going attitude, there is probably quite a bit I can do with him. As a beginner, I'm not as familiar with all the slang (Rally O, Obedience, Agility...they all seem similar to a novice like me).

I know you and Lily get so much enjoyment out of it! I hope to someday have the same experience with Coop.

Thanks!
Heather


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## Rusty

That sounds like a good idea! I do agility training with Begley, and it's a lot of fun for both of us. It's good exercise for us both, and even if we never achieve any titles, it's great training and confidence building for Begley. Our classes are always focused on overall improvement, but in a low pressure and supportive way that keeps it fun. And the classes aren't just for people who want to compete -- although I'd like to do some trials at some point, many of the people and dogs in class are there for a hobby only. 

However, some of the rules around agility can be a bit confusing for beginners. The Gamblers and Snooker games, for example, need a "for dummies" handbook to figure out what's going on, I think!


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## Specman

I would really like to do rally with Max. I think it would be very beneficial for him to have the mental exercise to help him stay focused and under control. We did a couple of agility class and he was very good with the different commands but he was not comfortable with the obstacles. Rally it would be a better fit for him. 

I have checked around my area for rally classes and have not found any that are convenient but I may get the rally cards and just work with him on my own until I can find a venue.

The other activity that I think he would love because he is ball obsessed is flyball but I am not very familiar with the sport.


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## JudyD

Catherine, I'll look forward to your post about various performance activities, as I find anything beyond basic obedience confusing. Jazz and I have done several series of obedience classes, but she doesn't really like it very much. We worked with a couple of private trainers from the time she was a year old, but I started her in group obedience when she was about 18 months, to help socialize her. She was quite uncomfortable with all the dogs and noise and people at first, which may account for her general lack of enthusiasm for that particular sport. We started agility classes a few weeks ago, and we're both having fun, so we may focus on that for her. Blue just finished a beginner obedience series and will start advanced in January. He, bless his enthusiastic little heart, enjoys everything, so he and I may try several things.


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## lily cd re

*Rally Obedience, aka Rally O*

Rally is a great sport to start with. Young dogs can be successful at it since novice routines are done on leash. Advanced and excellent routines are done off leash. In all venues judges will be looking for positive team work. In novice you will be penalized for pulling on the leash. In advanced and excellent the exercises will be harder and there will be more of them. You can also talk fairly freely with your dog, although you can't beg or plead for them to do what they are supposed to. In AKC excellent you are also not allowed to pat your leg, although you can in novice and advanced. 

In rally the judge designs a course for each level to be run. The number of stations and what the activities will vary with each level and also can be slightly different across different venues (but there are many parallels. Some exercises will be stationary activities such as halt, sit, down or in a more advanced routine it might be more complicated like a moving stand handler walks around dog. Some exercises will be moving exercises where a change of pace (fast, slow, normal) or change of direction (360 left, 360 right) is required. On the day of the trial, stewards will work with the judge to set up signs for the first course to be run (usually excellent at AKC trials). Before the first class starts course maps will be posted and/or distributed. You generally have at least 30 minutes to study the map before a ten minute walk through. At the start of the walk through the judge will give a briefing and during the walk through you may ask the judge questions (although in AKC you can't ask the judge how to do a particular sign). People do their walk throughs in many different ways. Some folks just walk around the course and read the signs and look at where they are placed. There are also a lot of people who like me walk the course with their invisible dog doing their part of each activity. I actually also talk to myself as I plan to talk to Lily (or Peeves) during our actual run.

Training for rally is fun to do in a class, but a class isn't necessary. I took one rally class with Lily very early on and since then have done all of my training on my own. These days I don't generally do separate specific rally training with Lily although I do with Peeves since he now has to learn some excellent activities (by Saturday this week hopefully), but instead, use rally exercises as warm ups for obedience and agility trials and for obedience classes. When I am at a rally trial I do practice the exercises that I have seen to be in that day's course that I think Lily (or Peeves) could use reinforcement on with her (or him) during the time before the walk through and then before our run if time permits after the walk through.

In the US there are three major venues for competing in rally, AKC, UKC and WCR. I have chosen to focus on AKC events myself, but many people cross back and forth between them with relative ease.

You can find a pdf of the AKC rally rules here (also has obedience rules): http://images.akc.org/pdf/rulebooks/RO2999.pdf

You can search for AKC rally trials here: American Kennel Club - Event and Awards Search

Here is a link for the UKC Rally rules: http://res.ukcdogs.com/pdf/2011RallyRulebook.pdf

And here is the link for how to find UKC rally events in your area: United Kennel Club: Upcoming Events

The other major venue for rally obedience used to be through APDT, but is now WCR (World Cynosport Rally). Here is a link to its rules: https://www.rallydogs.com/rulesReg_ebook.cfm

And here is the link for finding WCR rally trials in your area: https://www.rallydogs.com/events.cfm

When I first started competing with Lily I thought rally would be just a small stepping stone on the way to grander events and titles. Many traditional obedience folks think rally is easy. For me rally has become an important foundation of all the other sports I do with Lily. I do not think it is easy since there are elements to rally that are very different from traditional obedience, most notably that every trial presents a different course instead of a set routine. For Peeves rally substitutes for regular obedience. He just will not do the group stays reliably enough for me to feel comfortable entering him. There is never another dog in the ring with yours in AKC rally, which is a much more comfortable situation for me and for Peeves.

In my next post in this thread I will talk about traditional obedience venues and routines. Feel free to ask questions. I also hope that people who have done UKC and WCR rally or other sports will give their perspective on those venues.


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## kcp1227

We're finishing up our beginning rally class tonight. Both of us have loved it, and we'll be moving on to the next round of rally classes my club offers next month. I'm not sure if we'll ever compete, but the classes have been so much fun and Dash seems to enjoy it much more than regular obedience. Planning on trying agility at some point next year as well


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## lily cd re

Katie I think you will find that even if you don't compete in rally, the team connection that you reinforce through working on it should really help you with agility or anything else you want to try.

Specman we dabbled in flyball a bit. While Lily loved the concept of getting to jump the hurdles to go get a shot at grabbing a ball, I didn't find that it did much to enhance our connection to each other. I also know some people feel that it is hard on the dog's shoulders to hit the box as hard as a really ball obsessed do would probably hit it. If I were to do something serious along those general lines it would be dock diving (about which I know virtually nothing, but I do know both my dogs love jumping into our pool to grab balls and other thrown objects!).


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## Quossum

Great post!

I can do the Agility rundown. :biggrin:

In Agility, dogs run a course over various obstables, including jumps, tunnels, a climbing wall (the A-frame), a long narrow ramp (the dogwalk), a seesaw, and weave poles (a line of 12 upright poles that the dog must snake through with a serpentine motion). Different classes contain different sets of obstacles and variations of the rules, but at its most basic, the dog navigates the course in the designated order, and the fastest time (with the least amount of faults, which means no faults at all in the higher classes) wins. Dogs compete in classes with dogs of similar heights.

This sport relies on great communcation between dog and handler, as the dog must obey the handlers directions while both are moving at speed, with the dog off leash. Basic obedience is a foundation, but the real fine-tuning in Agility comes in to the "dance" of handler and dog around the course, with the dog (hopefully) cueing in to the handler's movement and voice and taking the correct obstacle next.

Training can be done at home with minimal equipment, a few jumps and weave poles, but most Agility aficionados join a training center to have access to the big stuff like the A-frame and dogwalk, and to guidance from experienced handlers. 

The comaradarie at shows is great, as you're really only competing against the clock, so competition between handlers needn't be cutthroat (though of course there are friendly rivalries). Though most are probably familiar with AKC Agility, there are a few other Agility venues as well, like USDAA and NADAC, which have their own variations of the rules, equipment, and jump height categories.

I've done Obedience, Flyball, and Agility, and by far I like Agility the best. For me, it has just the right combination of precision, obedience, speed, and dog enjoyment, and the training requirements aren't onorous, nor is the path to a MACH (Agility championship).

It's a great sport! Poodles of all sizes can be very successful in Agility.

--Q


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## Carolinek

I got back a little while ago from an agility class with Lily and was excited to see this thread. Thank you Catherine for initiating it.

Lily is a 12 lb poodle mix. Not sure of the combination of breeds but her personality, trainability, intelligence, energy level, and athleticism is all poodle. 

She loves agility! Her enthusiasm is amazing and I am having a ball with her. She will be ready to compete probably spring/ summer, but in the meantime we are having a heck of a lot of fun. If she earns points, that would be great but I'm more about the process, and just enjoy watching her enthusiasm. 

She is also at least 5 years old so we are a starting a little late, which I guess is OK.

One thing I did learn is to find a center that is a good fit for you. I looked around a bit, but finally wound up at a place I really like with an incredible trainer. The class is one of the high points of my week and the owner/ trainer really zeroes on on the specific things each dog needs. She is very intuitive about this, and having been around the block with some different trainers with Lily, I appreciate and recognize her skill.

We are just beginners, but to echo what Quossom said, agility is an incredible way to bond with your dog!


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## lily cd re

Thanks Q for the agility perspective. The only thing I would add for those of you who commented about some of the games being confusing, go and watch a trial or two in the venue you are interested in and hang out with a friendly looking handler and ask them to explain. Also you don't have to do all of the different games in any venue. I have tried my hand at all of the CPE games and some of them are very hard! More recently I have decided to stick with AKC events to keep my calendar and budget manageable, but even there I don't do Time 2 Beat or FAST.

Some venues are more common in certain areas than others. Here are links for different venues:

American Kennel Club - Dog Shows and Trials

Welcome to Canine Performance Events, Inc.

The North American Dog Agility Council - NADAC, LLC

Welcome to USDAA

To compete in AKC events, if your dog is AKC registered you need to have his or her registration number, breeder info and sire/dam plus birth date to fill out an entry form. If your dog is not AKC registered and clearly a poodle but without papers you can apply for a Purebred Alternative Listing (PAL) or if the dog is a mixed breed you apply for registration through the AKC canine partners program.

To compete in other venues you need to register your dog in that venue. For some of them there is an annual membership fee, but for the AKC there is only a one time fee to register the dog.


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## Specman

I printed out the novice rally signs yesterday and Max and I are off and running. He really enjoyed working on this last night and picked it up quickly. He has been crazy the last couple of days and really needs an outlet for all of his physical and mental energy!


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## lily cd re

Specman said:


> I printed out the novice rally signs yesterday and Max and I are off and running. He really enjoyed working on this last night and picked it up quickly. He has been crazy the last couple of days and really needs an outlet for all of his physical and mental energy!


I am happy to hear that Specman. You have done so much work with Max it is nice to see it paying off. I think most dogs really have fun with rally. when I am at trials I see a lot less signs of stress in dogs waiting for or in the rally ring than in any other sport. Even green agility dogs can be very stressed by the intensity of that atmosphere. For Lily it was why she often did zoomies at agility (and in obedience). But except for one time which was largely my fault she has never taken off on me in rally.


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## spindledreams

Grin you forgot Nosework which you can start with a couple of empty boxes and some treats...


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## lily cd re

I haven't done nosework in a formal way, but I know some people who do. Feel free to add a post explaining how it works. I would like to know more about what you do and how it might be related to tracking (which I will discuss along the way).


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## spindledreams

*Nosework what I have learned*

We didn't get as far into it as I wanted to but it really was Monsters favorite game. In this game the dogs learn to search for a specific set of odors and alert their handler to the location of the source of the odor. Nose Work is good for shy or even dog aggressive dogs as they never have to work around other dogs not even in training. Only one dog is allowed in the search area at a time. The dogs come out do a few searches then go back into a kennel or car while the next dog goes into the search area. They learn how to wait for their turn patiently and then come out raring to go. We normally did 3 searches a night but some other groups/classes may do more or less. 

You start training for this game by teaching your dog that there will ALWAYS be a box with treats in it all they have to do is find it. Then they get loads of praise and we dropped extra treats into the box. There is always a treat and they will always find it but you will NEVER show them exactly where it is. You can draw their attention to an area but not the exact box. If they get frustrated you will find a way to get them near the "hide" without showing them (this is really hard for US to learn) You can see the dogs get into the game as most turn on and start to actually search by the end of the first night of training. 

For the dog it is a fun game with lots of treats and praise for doing what comes naturally. For us it is a lesson in body language and patience. We have to learn to read our dogs, to know when they are frustrated, on scent, just goofing off and when they have had it enough for the day. 

Tracking and Nosework are related as we are encouraging a dog to find a particular scent and trace it back to the source. They are different as you don't need a field or large area to work in. A normal size room can be used for your hides, cars are actually used in some advanced title classes. The dogs have to learn to take into account the air patterns in a room with artificial ventilation as well as how to work outside as they get further along. 

UKC now has a Nosework title and there are other groups that also have different rules and hand out titles.  NACSW is one of them.


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## lily cd re

spindledreams thanks so much for explaining nose work further and for the link. That is really important to note that for dogs that may have some social issues this can be a very good activity. I think that for green handlers who have a dog with social issues a very intense environment like an agility trial this could be a great venue. If you are handling a dog with issues, making it easy on the handler by taking away the social worries is really helpful since the handler will not be loaded with stress. For myself with Peeves, who is dog reactive (but not aggressive), there is a lot that I have to deal with just to get him to the ring and back. I have a strategy that works, but without experience to understand his issues I would probably just leave him at home.


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## lily cd re

*Tradiitonal Obedience*

In the AKC there are three main levels of obedience: novice, open and utility. Lily and I are currently struggling with utility (aka futility). There will probably be some significant rules changes in January with elimination of one of the group stays in both novice and open. The removed exercise will be replaced with a new individual exercise, but for the time being here is a summary of the exercises in AKC.

Novice: 1) heel on lead; 2) figure 8 on lead; 3) stand for exam; 4) heel free; 5) recall; 6) one minute group sit stay and 7) 3 minute group down stay. Exercises 1 to 5 are done individually with no other dog in the ring. For the groups handlers remain in sight of their dogs facing them from the opposite side of the ring. Heeling patterns include pace changes (fast, slow and normal), and at least one right, left and about turn along with halt sits in the middle and at the end. The judge gives orders for those actions to the handler. The dog must do the sits at the halts automatically and do the turns and pace changes without verbal instructions.

Open (all done off lead): 1) heel free; 2) figure 8; 3) drop on recall; 4) retrieve on the flat; 5) recall over the high jump; 6) broad jump; 7) 3 minute sit stay; and 8) five minute down stay. In open A (for dogs not yet titled at that level, exercises 1 - 6 are always done in that order and the dog and handler are alone with the judge in the ring. The stays are done in groups and the handlers leave the ring and are out of sight of the dogs. Again, heeling patterns include pace changes (fast, slow and normal), and at least one right, left and about turn along with halt sits in the middle and at the end. The judge gives orders for those actions to the handler. The dog must do the sits at the halts automatically and do the turns and pace changes without verbal instructions.

Utility (all done off lead): 1) heeling and signals (handler leaves dog on a stand and from the opposite side of the ring orders by signal only for the dog to drop and sit in place, recall to front sit, return to heel); 2) scent discrimination of two articles one metal and one leather from a set of nine articles (four each leather and metal plus the handler scented article, all articles are numbered but visually the same to the dogs); 3) directed retrieve of one of three gloves placed behind the dog and handler; 4) moving stand for examination where judge orders you to heel and then tells you to stand the dog while you keep moving to a point about 8 feet from the dog, you turn to face the dog while the judge examines it and then the judge orders a call to heel; 5) a two part directed jumping where you set up with dog at heel and order the dog to go out to the other side of the ring then turn and sit, you then order the dog to return over the jump that the judge gives the order for, this is then repeated for the other jump. There are no group stays in utility. For untitled dogs in utility A the exercises are always run in this order.

As in rally once a dog has earned a UD (utility dog title, or rally excellent) there are ways to continue to compete and earn recognition. Similarly to rally, where each degree of RAE represents ten times of qualifying in both advanced and utility at the same trial (Lily and I are up to 50 double Qs for RAE5) you can work towards a UDX (utility dog excellent title) by earning qualifying scores in both open B and Utility B at the same trial. In the B classes the exercises will be done in different sequences at different trials, although in open the stays will be at the end (sometimes with the down first). Once you have done so ten times the dog has earned a UDX, ten more times is UDX2, etc. At the same time the dog will also be earning obedience master points and by placing highly and defeating many other dogs also be earning points towards the prefix title of OTCh, obedience trial champion.

For those seriously interested in pursuing obedience titles through UD or UDX and OTCh, don't do as I did with Lily and wait until the dog is titled at one level to train for the next. Train all of them from a young age. I feel I would not be having some of the problems I am currently experiencing in utility had I started working on go outs and signals when she was much younger. Also do not practice in the A order with a poodle! Lily memorized the open A order just from trials and now is somewhat befuddled by the B orders for open. This is why even though we don't have the UD title I am entering her in utility B. I don't want her to memorize the A order for utility.

You can train all of this except the group stays largely by yourself. However, I strongly recommend going to classes. Having other people critique your work and offer suggestions to solve challenges is priceless! I belong to a not for profit (501(c)(3)) obedience club. Members pay $12 for a single class and if you take two in a day it is only $17. I can't imagine anything I have formally done with Lily and Peeves that has higher bang for the buck than classes at the club (dues for both me and BF each year is only $60).

The link to the AKC rules that I posted at the beginning of this thread for rally also has the obedience rules. UKC and CDSP are other venues that offer obedience trials.


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## lily cd re

*How to enter a trial*

Now that we have discussed some of the events one can enter with your dog and how to get started preparing for your first event, let's talk about how to enter.

You can search at the web pages for the venues you want to enter for trials in your area. I will use AKC as my sample venue. By going to their obedience event and awards search page I was able to find obedience trials in NY for the next 12 months. http://www.apps.akc.org/apps/events...&save_as_default=Y&tab_type=OAR&saved_states=

I can scroll through to find trials I might be interested in. Important information in the search results will include whether the show is accepting all breeds or is a specialty as well as whether AKC canine partners program dogs can be entered. The judging assignments will also be found if they have been finalized. Additionally the dates and location for the show and the closing date for entries will be listed. Contact information for the show secretary and if applicable the superintendent will also be listed. The superintendent is where you will send your entry. You must pay attention to the closing date since the entry will have to reach that person or company before noon on the closing date. Generally there is no opening date for rally or obedience trials but there will be for agility trials. Your entry cannot reach the entry service or superintendent prior to the opening date or it will be discarded. You will need to fill out the entry form accurately and completely. Make sure you sign it where indicated and that you include proper payment.

Here are links to the AKC entry forms for agility, obedience and rally. As you can see they are fairly similar. Be careful about entering the correct classes. For example you need to enter your dog in rally B classes if the dog has earned an obedience title. In obedience you enter B classes at all levels if you have earned an OTCh, but can enter open A or utility A if the dog you are entering has not earned that level title.

http://images.akc.org/pdf/events/agility/AEAGL2.pdf

http://images.akc.org/pdf/AO9999.pdf

http://images.akc.org/pdf/AOR999.pdf

For smaller trials the entries often go directly to the trial secretary, who is usually a member of the club hosting the trial. For large shows the clubs involved will usually hire a superintendent who coordinates handling the entries. The major superintendents generally accept online entries in addition snail mailed forms with checks. Although they charge a fee for processing online entries I like to do my entries this way when possible since it gives me a confirmation number to use to track the status of my entries and a way to resolve problems (fingers crossed, so far haven't had any) the day of the trial.
http://www.apps.akc.org/apps/events...&save_as_default=Y&tab_type=OAR&saved_states=


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## spindledreams

UKC Obedience is very similar in title structure to AKC HOWEVER there are some differences in the exercises preformed. For instance in UKC Novice you do an Honor exercise where you do a down stay with your dog while another dog goes through the heeling exercise. You also do a recall over a jump so you need to train for that before you compete while in AKC you don't do a recall over a jump until after you get your CD. Copies of regulations for both UKC and AKC are available for download from their sites.


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## spindledreams

UKC events can be entered by going to the UKC site. You can download regs from this page and look for events on this page


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## A lioness

what an interesting thread...you folks here are so dedicated to helping everyone enjoy the poodle experiences to the max!! Thank you


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## lily cd re

spindledreams thanks for those notes about the differences in UKC novice obedience. I think there are a number of factors that people should account for in deciding on a venue. First, of course is availabilty of that venue in reasonable travel distance. But the differences in exercises is important too. Part of why I waited until well into 2012 to do AKC rally excellent with Lily was to make sure she didn't have to do an honor exercise. I just don't like the idea of ordering one of my dogs to an on leash sit or down stay and having them want to obey my order if the working dog ends up going out of control in the ring (which would have been possible in rally excellent since the working dog is off leash, I also don't like having one dog on and one dog off leash).

I think people can use my original links to get events searches *and* the rules for the various venues I discussed. One of the important things is to be very familiar with the rules and actual ideal performance of each exercise in the venue you want to show in. Just last week I took a utility class at my club. We don't teach the exercises in these classes but rather work with the class instructor and each other to practice and improve the dog's execution of the behaviors. For those who are newer to utility with their first dog (me a year or so ago), we offer guidance on very basic things as we work with each other. The person who I worked with is a green handler and she doesn't know the language for the orders. I suggested to her that she study the rules so she becomes familiar with what the judge will be saying to her and also so that she can give orders appropriately to the person she is working with.


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## lily cd re

*preparing for your first trial*

Ok, so you have decided that you are ready to enter a rally or agility or other trial with your dog. What do you need to do to be absolutely ready for the day of the trial.

First test your dog under trial like circumstances by entering a match if possible. My obedience club schedules matches in the weeks leading up to trials that we are hosting. There will be a judge (I often work to judge matches) and although they won't score you (if it is a "B" match, show and go or fun match) they will give you feedback and if you want them to treat it just like a trial they will. You will be scored if it is an "A" match. You can also use it as a training opportunity if you know your dog is weak in one exercise. I have also been at agility trials that run B matches on the first day of a trial after the regular event ends. The entry fees for matches are much lower than for trials. One of my favorite trials to go to are those hosted by the Syracuse Obedience Training Club in upstate NY since they always host match time in the trial rings on Fridays of the weekends of their Sat/Sun trials.

Another really important thing to do is to make sure your dog will be relaxed at the trial. If you are interested in something noisy and high energy like agility go to a trial with your dog and walk around the venue with them. Make sure you stay out of the way of the chute and the ring exit and don't interfere with teams that are getting ready to run, but do let your dog learn what the atmosphere will be like and pay attention to reading your dog for signs of stress. If (s)he seems really stressed out by it all then work on classical conditioning exercises in that highly distracting environment to help your dog refocus on you. Although there are others, I recommend Leslie McDevitt's Control Unleashed games. Leslie McDevitt: Control Unleashed®: Home Page

Since you will walk through the courses for agility and rally it is essential that your dog be comfortable relaxing in a crate. Practice this by taking the crate to class and setting it up and having your dog rest in it while waiting for your turn. Let your dog see and hear that there are dogs working nearby. You don't want to have to rely on asking someone to hold your dog while you do your walk through. Also dogs are rarely allowed into the restrooms with you so you need a place to safely leave them when you go off to use the facilities or buy something for lunch. For multi-day trials you can view your crate and chair (good idea to have a chair for yourself too) as a campground of sorts. You can leave those things set up without worry (although hide your rosettes when you aren't around, I've had a couple stolen (including last year at PCA!)). I always leave water, food, treats and an extra set of feed buckets at the trial site so I don't have to carry those back and forth, and more importantly don't have to worry about forgetting them. Duplicates of those dog care essentials also stay at my hotel.

Here is a picture that shows what the crating areas can look like. Being prepared will help you minimize your own stress and therefore will help you bring out the best in your dog when you step into the ring together.


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## Bizzeemamanj

This thread is fantastic and full of so much useful information! Thank you Catherine (and everyone else who contributed) for all the wonderful facts and links. It is a bit daunting when you are taking that first step (paw!), so to have great resources to turn to is very helpful. Thanks again!

Heather (and Cooper)


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## lily cd re

*At your first trial*

Now the dig day of your debut with your dog is here. If the trial is in day trip distance of your home, make sure you know how to get there and how long it will take. Then add at least an hour to your travel time to figure out when to leave to make it to your ring on time. This gives you a buffer for bad traffic, but more importantly is also the time you need to set up your crate, settle your dog and check in at your ring. 

Settling your dog should include walking through the venue while talking to him or her to let them know that this big noisy place full of dogs is no big deal to you and shouldn't be to them either. One of the biggest mistakes I see new handlers make is in not helping their dog to understand the new environment enough.

I go to many events that are not one day there and back kinds of venues. I often will enter for two or as many as four days at a big cluster. It is essential that I do everything I can to keep Lily's life as routine as possible. I go the day before I show to trials like this. Whenever possible I set up the day before the trials start. I will walk around in the buildings and/or grounds to show Lily the lay of the land. I show her the rings we will work in and walk around them with her. You are not allowed to practice in the show rings for the most part, but you can do things to help your dog be familiar with the working setting.

If the club hosting the trial has a match before the trial, think about entering. This is the biggest favor you can do for your dog. He or she will think that the work environment is not so alien if they have had a chance to practice there.


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## Lou

I think Lou would be an extraordinary super champion agility gal!  she does crazy athletic things with such ease!! She is really amazing! Apollo tried his best but she is lightning fast and way more graceful on her jumps and landings 


She jumps really really REALLY high like a horse!  and lands gracefully like .. So gently the paws touch the floor! 

























Apollo tries to keep up, running after the ball when playing fetch, but Lou is soooo much faster than him! I actually have to ask her to wait so he can have a turn to get the ball too! hehehehehe


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## ericwd9

I think human women are more graceful than men too. Medium size girl spoos are famous for jumpy-jumps. Mine goes 6-8 feet in the air and lands like a feather. Different if you get in the way! 50lbs of dog from 6 feet up can flatten you.
Eric.


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## Lou

ericwd9 said:


> I think human women are more graceful than men too. Medium size girl spoos are famous for jumpy-jumps. Mine goes 6-8 feet in the air and lands like a feather. Different if you get in the way! 50lbs of dog from 6 feet up can flatten you.
> Eric.



Well said!! Lou & Apollo are 62-65lbs now I think LOL.... I can still carry them, but barely !  last time I measured / weighed them was a long time ago, they are now 2.5 years old  

And they do "bodyslam me in the backyard sometimes enough to make me fall on my butt a couple times!! lol "


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## Carolinek

Great info! I'm going to start bring a crate to Lily's agility class. Never thought of doing that, but now I know why the more experienced woman in class brings a crate for her collie!


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## lily cd re

Carolinek said:


> Great info! I'm going to start bring a crate to Lily's agility class. Never thought of doing that, but now I know why the more experienced woman in class brings a crate for her collie!


You will be really happy to have gotten her used to the home away from home of the crate before you start to run at trials!


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## Carolinek

I can see the value in it. I only used a crate for a short time after I brought her home , but she was fine in it, so I imagine it won't be a problem.


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## lily cd re

It helps them to be relaxed for when you are getting ready to run. Also you don't have to ask someone to hold her during your walk throughs. I find it much more relaxing for me if I don't have to worry about the dog when I am walking.

Separately we went to Oneonta yesterday to pick up BF's daughter who will be doing a Disney internship starting in January and therefore had to totally clear her room out. There is a lot of snow!!!


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## lily cd re

*Tracking*

Tracking is something that so far I can say we've only dabbled in although I want to get more serious about it. 

Tracking is a great sport for dogs that are reactive to other dogs since there will never be other dogs on your track with you. It is also a good confidence builder for a dog that is indecisive. In tracking the dog takes the lead and you just follow along (as some tracking folks say, we are the dope at the end of the rope). You can encourage the dog, you can give water along the way and untangle your line if things get jumbled up but otherwise the dog is following a scent trail that has no visual evidence associated with it unless you are tracking across recently fallen snow or something else where the track layers footprints would be obvious to you.

There are four major tracking titles: TD, TDU, TDX, and VST. Before you can take a tracking test you and your dog must pass a certification which is like a TD track and judged by an AKC judge. The judge will give you four copies of your certification if you pass. You will use one each time you enter for a TD or TDU until you pass. After that having earned a TD or TDU substitutes for the certification if you want to take a TDX or VST.

TD stands for tracking dog and is the basic first title. Alternatively a TDU is an urban tracking dog title. You could do either as your first title track and the requirements are very similar for them. The requirements in terms of length of track, number and angles of turns is similar. For a TD there are no acute angle turns and there are no cross tracks. Cross tracks are laid by two other people than the primary track layer and literally intersect your dog's track at crossing angles as an off course distraction on a TDX. The length of a TD track is no less than 440 yards nor more than 500 yards. The track will have been aged between 30 minutes and 2 hours. There will be no fence lines to guide the dog as to when to turn. Verbal encouragement of the dog is allowed but signals that turn the dog are not. You only need to pass once to earn a TD and the scoring is pass/fail. There are no scores or placements. There will be one article that the dog has to give indication of finding at the end of the track. Your dog must where a harness and be on a long line. You must remain at least 20 feet behind the dog unless you stop to disentangle the dog.

A TD track will be in relatively flat and open terrain, as will a TDU. In contrast a TDX will be a longer track through varying terrains, possibly including water or fallen trees to cross. The track for a TDX will be between 800 and 1000 yards and will have aged 3 to 5 hours before you run on it. There will be two places where there will be decoy cross tracks. There will be articles that you have to collect along the track as well.

I will continue this later.


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## mvhplank

*A few notes on CDSP*

Thanks for such an interesting thread! I just now found it and enjoyed reading all the overviews.

CDSP--Companion Dog Sports Program--is pretty new and pretty small, and mostly in the Northeast US. It used to be St. Hubert's CDSP, and was later bought by Sandi Ver Sprill, who has really helped it grow. [Full disclosure, I'm a judge for all levels in this venue.] Here's the web site: CDSP Home Page

It's an obedience venue that is deliberately dog-friendly, and is a good venue for reactive dogs since there are no group exercises. The only stay is a sit or down in the middle of the ring while the handler walks around the edge--a bit like the AKC Beginner Novice exercise, but the sit or down is the handler's choice. 

A little like Rally, you are allowed to encourage your dog with praise, and you can give a treat between exercises--very specifically after the judge says "exercise finished" and before you take a single step to the next exercise. Extra commands are penalized 3 points (for example, if you say "Sit! Sit!" the first command is free and the second costs 3 points). You can cue each portion of an exercise without penalty. For example, for a retrieve over the high jump, I can cue, "Over, Take it, Over, Front, Finish" without penalty--so long as I don't give an extra command--"Over! Over!" There are a few sins that result in a non-recoverable NQ, and it has taken both my dogs about 6 or 7 runs to get the 3 Qs for their novice titles. Novice dogs like to run around jumps, for some reason.

The venue just added a new title. In addition to Novice, Open, and Utility, and the new class is Versatility, which mixes non-retrieve exercises from Utility with another exercise from lower levels. We also offer championships--10 scores of 185 or higher in Novice earns a Novice Championship (CD-CCH). Championships are available at each level. A Novice championship is required before entering Versatility.

Exercises for the levels are a little different from both AKC and UKC. 

Novice: On Lead Heeling, Off Lead Figure 8, Moving Stand for Exam, Recall over Bar Jump, Sit or Down Stay

Open: Off Lead Heeling, Running Broad Jump, Drop On Recall, Retrieve on the Flat, Retrieve Over High Jump, Go Out, Turn and Sit (from between the jump the end of the ring)

Utility: Signals (without full heeling pattern--additional signals are allowed without NQ, but cost 3 points), Scent Discrimination (5 articles of any material), Directed Jumping (high and bar, as usual), Directed Retrieve (twice, once at each end of the ring), Moving Stand and Exam.


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## lily cd re

Marguerite thank you so much for expanding on how CDSP obedience works. You and I have talked about it in the past, but having your expertise added here is wonderful.


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## mvhplank

*More on CDSP*

I wanted to mention this, but my post on CDSP was already pretty long.

You can use CDSP as a way to earn titles and as a way to prepare for venues with more restrictive rules. After all, a little positive reinforcement of success for the handler helps confidence. And "live" ring practice is good for the dog, too.

Exhibitors with an eye on UKC and AKC often do their runs as if under those rules, with no chatter to the dog. But a second command can not only save your Q in CDSP, it can let the dog know, "Yes, you need to do this." (Don't forget that you can have an extra command in UKC and AKC in some situations like heeling, but it will cost you points. Except in heeling, UKC allows simultaneous voice and signal with no penalty.) 

And as my CDSP mentor likes to explain, a new handler can enter Novice A in CDSP and get a title--heck you can go all the way through a UD, and when you enter UKC, you're still in Novice A because it doesn't recognize CDSP. And when you get good in UKC, you can go to AKC and you're still in Novice A because AKC only recognizes itself.

One caveat--the last time I read UKC rules, the qualifications for the B class in obedience levels included having a title in "another venue." As a UKC judge once told a group at a show, "It's always safe to enter the B class." If you mistakenly enter the A class, your scores won't count. Now that I'm also a UKC Rally judge, I'll forever be in the B class in any UKC performance event.

PS--Catherine, let me know if you want an overview of UKC Rally if no one else jumps in to share information.


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## Carolinek

*Miss Lily's agility progress*

Lily just finished another agility class last night. The instructor kept saying how good she is doing and I can see that she has made so much progress in the last eight weeks. She can't wait to get in the ring and very much acts like she has a job when she gets in there. 

I can call her through the starting obstacles and she really follows my direction - when I do it right! The zoomies still happen here and there but not nearly as often. Last night was great because I was able to redirect her back to the course when I saw that look in eyes that meant the zoomies were going to happen. That felt good, as just a few weeks ago- she would have been off zooming around the place like a little crazy dog :act-up: It's like a split second thing when her brain flips into zoomie mode, and I was SO happy that she made the choice to respond to my direction and get back to the task at hand. That was real progress. 

The teeter is another challenge. But last night she actually tipped it herself so she is making progress there too. And she jumps right on it, just slows down in the middle and needs encouragement to finish it. Everything else she tackles enthusiastically- she is a speedy little thing. I'm still directing her through the weaves, but she does better all the time with those too.

I love the facility and the instructor too! She seems to know just what to say to move Lily along- clearly much experience, skill, and thought behind the suggestions. We are moving to another class next session, as getting to this class meant leaving my weekly department meetings at work 20 minutes early. I work in a dog friendly place, but I just can't do that on a permanent basis to my colleagues. So the instructor found a good class for us to move into.

In the new class, Lily will be jumping 12 inch jumps, which is what she will need to do in competition anyway. She was doing 8 inches in the last class. She's got the long poodle legs and springiness, so the height won't be a problem for her- and she definitely has the poodle smarts! 

We are having a blast- loving agility!


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## lily cd re

Marguerite I haven't done UKC rally so go for it with thanks.

Carolinek you are very fortunate to have found a great instructor and facility to train at. I spent a long time at a place with a decent facility (although that is where I fell and messed up my knee). The instructor was decent (not great) but there were always too many dogs and handlers. She often overfilled the class. Clearly she also had favorites and some people got more time than others. Before I stopped going I had gotten to the point of just treating it as run thrus since my real instruction and fixing of Lily's contacts was with my private trainer. I am so lucky to have her since she is internationally known, but she lives ten minutes away from us!


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## mvhplank

lily cd re said:


> Marguerite I haven't done UKC rally so go for it with thanks.


I'll work on it later today--I have some paying work to do right now. We freelancers still have bosses and schedules--but we don't have much advance notice as to who and what.


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## lily cd re

mvhplank said:


> I'll work on it later today--I have some paying work to do right now. We freelancers still have bosses and schedules--but we don't have much advance notice as to who and what.


Yes paying work first, part of why I cut off tracking where I did was because it was time to go to class. Also VST is very different from TD, TDU and TDX.


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## Carolinek

Catherine -
How lucky you are to have an internationally known trainer ten minutes from your house! Knee injuries are a pain. My sister quit competing with her horses due to knee problems. My knees are Ok- the back is a different story! 

I see how much the personality and skill of the instructor matters and I do feel very fortunate to have found a good fit. I took a few private lessons first with her so she could get to know Lily and put her in the right class, and right away I was impressed with the care she took in placing Lily and prepping me for the experience. She runs a nice place. The classes are small, there were only two other dogs in the last class and it sounds like there are three other dogs in this next class. The class after mine on Monday night also only had three dogs in it, so I think she tries to keep them small.

The people I've met there seem to be pretty dog savvy (breeders, prior experience with agility, etc). The owner also breeds gorgeous Aussies, and I overheard her talking to one of the collie breeders about the health testing they do. She is not a large volume breeder though and they are clearly first her pets. All this also indicates to me that I have a found a good place to land. I'm very excited to keep learning more about agility. And after I wrap up this dissertation, I can devote even more time to it. That thought will keep me writing over the break!


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## mvhplank

*UKC Rally*

UKC Rally is a fun way to play with your dog in the ring. Since most folks are more familiar with AKC Rally-O, that's where I'll start the comparisons.

The classes are Rally Obedience 1 (RO1), RO2, and RO3. The titles are URO1, and so on. Three scores of 70 or above (out of 100) are required for a title.

The courses are not very long--a minimum of 15 and a maximum of 17 signs. Judges are required to nest the courses (that is, use much the same path and common signs for a speedier course change). We must also design each level so it takes about the same amount of time to run. The reason each level should take the same time is because a High in Trial ribbon is awarded and in the event of a tie, the shortest official course time wins.

Compared to AKC, there are not nearly as many signs to learn, but I've heard rumors that there may be some updates soon.

You may encourage your dog, and give multiple cues. You are not penalized for extra cues, but you may receive a "slow to respond" penalty of a point or two. One big difference in UKC is that the judge may call "Fault!" if you've committed an error that would NQ you. (Not all judges call "fault," though, and it's not a requirement.) The judge can't tell you what you did wrong, but you should be able to figure it out and re-do the sign for a 3-point penalty.

In RO3 there is an honor exercise--usually after running the course, the dog then honors for the next dog. The judge will determine whether the honor is a sit or a down, and will designate a place inside the ring for the team to perform the honor exercise. It is done on-leash, with the handler standing and the dog in heel position.

The first year I was steadily doing Rally, I was surprised to see that we made it onto the Rally All-Stars list of the top 50 dogs doing Rally, which earns you an invitation to Premier in Kalamazoo, MI (I wish we could have afforded to go!). We were chasing the United Rally Obedience Champion (UROC) title, which is similar to the RAE, in that it requires 10 double Qs in RO2 and RO3 and a specified number of points in each level. It's a little complicated and you should read the rules yourself, anyway!

There are two other championship titles. One is United Rally Excellent (URX), which is awarded after 10 double Qs (70 or higher) in 2 and 3. It can be earned multiple times--my Devlin has URX3. 

The last "big" title is United Rally Obedience Grand Champion (UROG), which requires 15 double Qs that combined add up to 192.

Here's a picture of me, Devlin, and judge Robert Wolf with our brand-new UROG:









As with any venue you try, you should thoroughly read the rules. Whenever you sign your entry form, you attest that you have read and understand the rules, so you would be wise to make that true!

Here's the link to a PDF file containing UKC Rally Rules, which are current as of today: http://res.ukcdogs.com/pdf/2011RallyRulebook.pdf

I highly recommend UKC as a friendly venue where it's easy to get your feet wet in competition. Trials are often pretty small, entry fees are usually lower than for AKC, and frequently trials will accept day-of-show entries and Temporary Listing numbers if you're not already registered with UKC. Your titles won't count until you convert your temporary listing to a permanent one.

Questions?


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## lily cd re

VST stands for Variable Surface Tracking. The track you work will have different surfaces that can include vegetation, pavements of various types and may take you inside buildings including up and down stairs. The track is between 600 and 800 yards and will cross at least three types of surfaces. There will be four articles placed along the track that will have to be indicated by the dog and picked up while on the track. There are more turns on a VST than on a TD and one of them is referred to in the AKC tracking regulations as a "moment of truth" turn which will have no vegetation or other obstacles like walls to give a hint as to which direction the track takes. While a TDX test will be physically rather strenuous a VST is meant to be able to be run by any handler and dog team. It is possible to do a VST without having done a TDX, but the dog must have earned a TD to do VST.

In a TDU, which is an optional titling class, the criteria are rather similar to a TD with a track length of 400 to 500 yards and not aged more than 2 hours. However a TDU track will cross different surfaces as in a VST. There will be three fabric or leather articles on track to be found by the dog.

A dog that earns a TD, TDX and a VST is also given the prefix title CT (Champion Tracker). For any type of tracking title only one qualifying performance is needed to earn a title and there are no scores (pass or fail only). A dog may continue to enter any type of tracking test for which it has already earned a title although entry preference is often given to untitled dogs.

If you compete in different sports you may want to consider working to earn a VCD title with your dog. VCD stands for Versatile Companion Dog. To be recognized as a VCD a dog must have earned a regular obedience title, a standard agility title, a jumpers agility title and a tracking title. There are degrees of VCD titles as follows: 

VCD1: CD NA NAJ (TD or TDU); or CD NAP NJP (TD or TDU)
VCD2: CDX OA OAJ (TD or TDU); or CDX OAP OJP (TD or TDU)
VCD3: UD AX AXJ TDX; or UD AXP AJP TDX
VCD3: UDX MX MXJ VST; or UDX MXP MJP VST

A highly accomplished dog earning an OTCh, MACh and CT will be recognized with the prefix title of VCCH, versatile companion champion.

Currently Lily and I will have earned a VCD1 with the addition of a TD (which we are working on). If I can ever get through open agility then we would have a VCD2 with the tracking title. Friends of mine who are not "dog people" used to ask me when we would be finished competing. My answer was always either never or something to the effect of when one or both of us is too decrepit to continue. I find working with my dogs to be a great source of peace and joy. Aside from the titles and rosettes, there is a great bond to be deepened through working with your dog. With poodles being as smart as they are, you do them a great favor to give them a meaningful job either in performance with you, service for you or as a therapy dog. So get off the couch and start working!


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## lily cd re

Does anyone else want to add anything about other activities or venues? Does anyone want this to be a sticky?


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## mvhplank

lily cd re said:


> Does anyone else want to add anything about other activities or venues? Does anyone want this to be a sticky?


A "sticky" is a good idea. Someone may add Nosework, Barn Hunt, and C-WAGs, which are getting big around here. I don't compete in those venues and know little about them. Then there's WCRL Rally (formerly APDT) that I may be able to touch on later--I haven't competed in that venue for a year or two, but plan to start Neely in it.


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## lily cd re

We have info on Nosework from Spindledreams. I don't know anything about Barnhunt, other than it is getting popular. I also don't know about C-WAGs. Marguerite, what is that?


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## mvhplank

lily cd re said:


> We have info on Nosework from Spindledreams. I don't know anything about Barnhunt, other than it is getting popular. I also don't know about C-WAGs. Marguerite, what is that?


Oops--sorry about missing Nosework. I didn't review the whole thread before typing that. (My bad!)

C-WAGS is Canine Work And GameS (www.c-wags.org), a venue that offers competition in obedience, rally, scent, and games.

Titles require 4 qualifying scores, saying that "A well balanced dog has four legs and as such [titles are earned] after four qualifying scores from at least 2 different judges ..."

The web site is set up in such a way that I can't copy and paste any descriptions. The center where I train has a bunch of enthusiastic supporters concentrating on the Scent Detectives games. Since I'm working on Neely NOT sniffing in the ring, I haven't explored any sniffing sports.


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## spindledreams

*Nosework again*

OMG we got Monster back into a Nose work class last night. Mind you he has not been to one for nearly a year so I got a couple of shocks. One he recognized the building and got really excited. We had taken other classes there with him but as soon as I headed to the back to kennel him it clicked BOX GAME! 

He was turned on and excited. I remember this game. Yes mom, no I am not trying to cheat but mom, mom it is the BOX GAME! So yep he made quick work of his searches as we were working beginning level first day finds. 

But here is the really neat part and why I really think Nosework is special. One of the beginner dogs was Belgian who came in so tuned into her person she kept stopping and looking at her for cues about what she wanted her to do. First set of search she was nervous about the new location and new folks around so she clung to her owners side and kept doing the check in look, second set of searches she was a bit further away but still doing the check in looking. The third set of searches magic happened. She was still a bit shy but as they got near the boxes she forged out and started to search and only checked in when she hit the end of the leash. She was like Mom hey let me find it I know there are treats here. The change in her confidence and attitude was really nice to watch. And this was only class one. 

There are two other dogs in our class. One is a second Belgian owned by the same person as the first one. He was a big brawny boy who had one thought on his mind FOOD! He was into the food part of the game but not as into the finding. The second one is a spaniel who after the first find figured out that he was supposed to go to smell and he would get treats and praise. He was fun to watch as he would walk in and go straight to the right box, get taken to the corner by his owner with his back to the boxes, turn around and straight to the box. Can we say he has a greats nose.


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## lily cd re

spindledreams that is so great to hear. Poodles are so smart! I was similarly taken aback by Lily when we started going back to a canine conditioning class that we hadn't been to in about 8 months. Lily walked in absolutely sure of where she was and what she was supposed to do. She remember the whole routine.

Confidence is one of the great benefits for dogs who work at things where their thinking is challenged.


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## Specman

I downloaded a Rally O book from Amazon yesterday and can wait to get stated with Max. I hope to sign up for a rally class in March and then compete in some local events!


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## mvhplank

Specman said:


> I downloaded a Rally O book from Amazon yesterday and can wait to get stated with Max. I hope to sign up for a rally class in March and then compete in some local events!


Way to go! Keep us updated! :thumb:


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## lily cd re

Specman, you and Max will have a lot of fun. Rally O is a great team builder. I know you have done a lot with Max to help him deal with some social issues, now you will really play together in a constructive way. I have found that I have a much better relationship with Peeves through rally than when he was a stay at home couch potato. I wish you the best with it.


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## JJane

Thank you everyone for such wealth of information! Has this been made into a sticky note? 
I will be getting my first spoo pup this spring/summer and want to start off on the right foot in regards to training. I would be very interested in recommendations for training books.
I am SO looking forward to this journey!


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## lily cd re

Hi JJane, yes this is a sticky so it will always be easy to find. What do you plan to do with your pup? Rally, obedience, agility...?

I would generally recommend Leslie McDevitt's Control Unleashed and The Focused Puppy by Deborah Jones, Ph.D. and Judy Keller, along with Crate Games by Susan Garrett. All of these will provide excellent foundations for any performance activity you might pursue as well as making your dog much easier to live with in general.


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## JJane

I'm not 100% committed to anything yet as I have zero experience, however, I am leaning towards rally. I have back issues so I don't thing agility is for me. Out of all the options, is there one activity in particular that creates a stronger owner/dog relationship than another? It would seem that with obedience or rally, the dog has to pay more attention to the owner vs tracking/nose work and that attention creates a stronger bond. 
Thank you for the book suggestions.


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## lily cd re

Rally has been wonderful for my relationships with both Lily and Peeves. It is lots of fun too. And yes, Lily may be my only agility dog (bad knees, bad hip, bad.....).


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## spindledreams

*Herding is for Poodles also *

Yes I found out today that there is actually a group that will give Poodles herding titles :cheers2: 

The group is the AHBA or American Herding Breed Association and they recognize Poodles as a "Multipurpose Breeds With A Herding Background" 

I didn't get photos but today two of my Standards went to an Instinct test and PASSED. They got to go in a pen with 4 goats and show their instinct to work stock. It was really interesting to see the big differences in how Jazz and Monster handled the goats. It was like magic to see the flashes of stock dog come through on Jazz as she fought her "you shall not chase animals" training. Her whole body language would change. Monster on the other hand walked in with an OK I got this attitude and just went to work trying to figure out how to make the goats move where he wanted them to go. 

The interesting thing for me was that the very first part of the test was for you to walk into the pen with your dog on leash, sit your dog tell them stay and walk to the end of your leash then call you dog. This is to test trainability. 

Then the evaluator takes the leash away and walks the dog towards the stock (in our case this was 4 goats) and you just stand near the fence like a post. The rest of the test is the evaluator, your dog dragging its leash and the stock. The evaluator looks for interest in the stock, how they move around the stock (circling or not circling, moving the stock towards them, etc) 

If you can I highly recommend you check out this sport for you and your poodle. AND no it is not restricted to Standards, a friends Mini has her instinct cert also.


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## JJane

How exciting for you and your dogs! Here is a video of Cavon's Finnegan at his evaluation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSG5rXKA0Js


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## spindledreams

I found out today that the ASCA (Australian Shepherd Club of America) will also title poodles in herding.


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## spindledreams

spindledreams said:


> I found out today that the ASCA (Australian Shepherd Club of America) will also title poodles in herding.


Sigh I have learned I was misinformed the ASCA does not title poodles :Cry:

Of course my local herding co op is associated with groups that do ASCA, AKC and AHBA. AHBA does title poodles as AHBA considers Poodles a "Multipurpose Breeds With A Herding Background" Our instructor says for us to get 3 lessons under our belt before making any decisions about what direction we want to take in herding ie just a fun day with the dog, trial locally or get really into titles and trials with the dog. 

We have one lesson under belt and came home with a list of commands to work on learning... 

Of course Apollo was like hey these are new smells and then would do OH yeah goats herd wait what is that smell... It was really foggy so my son only managed to get a little bit of video. We were working on "Go Bye" in this snippet. 
Apollo lesson 1


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## Pella

lily cd re just wanted to let you know that because of this post I am now looking into finding rally classes to try with Lena...thank you so much for sharing what you know...


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## lily cd re

Pella I am so psyched to know that this has you inspired to play in the rally ring. I hope you find a great class and have lots of fun. 

Even on days when things don't go as planned (as they didn't for us today) it is still a better day to have spent it with Lily and/or peeves and all my dog show friends than to do almost anything else.


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## DukeCharlie

Doing activities with our dogs improves overall fitness and health.


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## Païllâsse

Have you ever heard about Jody Reed? There is an interesting article on the BBC website about this woman that does marathon with her black Spoo :aetsch:


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## lily cd re

No I hadn't heard about her, but that sounds like quite a team building training program to get there.


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## dancingbird

Hi - i didn't do this intensive training with my first standard poodle (who passed in Aug 2018) but I'm hoping to do so with my next dog since I'll be getting a puppy this time instead of a rescue poodle. I don't know if it will be rally/obedience/agility/sheep herding or some other thing... I'm still learning what's available and accessible in my area (Seattle)> Do you have suggestions of qualities I should look out for in a puppy? I don't feel the need to be super competitive in whatever sport we do, it's more intended for us to have structured activity together since I also want a dog who leans more towards being calm and companionship oriented rather than strictly play/activity motivated. Any thoughts?


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## lily cd re

dancingbird there are some people who specifically look for breeders that aim for producing performance puppies, but I don't think that is necessary or even necessarily desirable since a very drivey dog can be a handful to live with if you don't want to try for an Obedience Trial or Master Agility Champion (OTCh/MACh). Since the time I started this thread I have acquired a 2nd standard poodle who is also being trained for obedience. That is my dog Javelin. He is a very smart and biddable dog. He is on the way to potentially being an OTCh. He is from a very good breeder, but not a specifically performance oriented breeder. He has Ale Kai in his pedigree so is a very nicely built dog, but more importantly I think is that he is a happy and well adjusted boy, so he is interested in and adept at learning new things.


I would tell the breeders to whom you speak what your goals are. I would also look to see that the breeders you get seriously interested in are doing some sort of sporting activity with their dogs, conformation at least (good build and confident temperament comes with that), but if they do obedience or other sports as well so much the better.


As long as you have a well built, healthy pup and start doing fun interesting training games with the pup early you will develop a good partnership and help the pup to develop interests and abilities for great learning. If you are interested in seeing what kinds of work I have done in training Javelin please look at this thread. https://www.poodleforum.com/24-perf...-hunting/205393-javelins-road-ring-ready.html


I wish you success in finding a lovely puppy and that you take the plunge to do lots of fun things with him (or her).


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## cate&clair

I'm going to sound persnickety, but performance events/activities for dogs are hunting, herding, and the like. This post is referring mostly to companion training...obedience, agility and rally. . Poodles can certainly do performance events, and there are many poodles participating in hunting, herding, nose work etc. I participate with my poodle in companion events. And we both have a lot of fun!

Also, hearing breeders say they're breeding "for performance" bothers me. Any healthy dog can be trained in obedience and rally. But a dog's structure is evidence of sound breeding practice. My toy poodle is from a breeder who carefully breeds for the show ring. My toy poodle's structure allows her to move fluidly and jump effortlessly in agility. She has the same eagerness and athleticism of her champion parents. Conformation is "performance" in many ways. Why separate out the correct body structure and soundness of conformation-bred dogs to declare "performance-bred" dogs? What does that mean?


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## lily cd re

Well yes, your first paragraph is a bit persnickety since I don't care what you call the things you train for and do with your dog. Performance, companion, honestly who cares what it is called.

I do agree that it is sort of silly and downright meaningless for the most part for breeders to say they are breeding specifically for performance/companion and other events. There is no way for any of them to guarantee a dog will be able to do any particular kind of event because that is there vision for any pup they produce. That is part of why neither of my poodles comes from a "performance breeder." They are just healthy well built pleasant dogs who have been well trained for what I expect. I have two friends (real world) who are breeders (neither in poodles but both breeds you see in lots of sports). Both of them would probably describe themselves as performance breeders. One of them has a word of mouth reputation that does mean nearly all of her pups end up in homes with people who do agility and or other sports. The other one ended up stuck with two pups from her last litter. Reflecting back I think one of the big differences between them is that one has a large social media presence and the other doesn't. In other words their success in producing performance pups is driven strongly by presence on FB and such almost as much as through the past successes of their dogs, which they both have in multiple sports.


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## Mimi - The Black Poodle

Our main hobbies are Dobo and Agility, we humans and our poodles just love it.

Quality time at its best! We are thinking something new but not yet sure what that would be


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## lily cd re

Now that the AKC has made it possible to earn rally and trick titles through virtual programs by submitting videos there are no excuses left for people not to earn those titles. I hope everyone will consider these great opportunities. Have fun playing those great games with your poodles. They will appreciate it.


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## Skylar

There’s also a type of AKC Scentwork title that uses things you have at home, no special scents to buy and train. 

I think it’s a fun idea for those who don want to take classes or who’s dogs aren’t ready to work around other dogs or people. Working on a title helps you set goals in your training.


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## PeggyTheParti

lily cd re said:


> Now that the AKC has made it possible to earn rally and trick titles through virtual programs by submitting videos there are no excuses left for people not to earn those titles. I hope everyone will consider these great opportunities. Have fun playing those great games with your poodles. They will appreciate it.


Yes! One of the silver linings of this pandemic. Would you be open to accepting video submissions from forum members?


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## lily cd re

Click and I can both do video evaluations for trick titles.


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## BennieJets

I was just re-inspired today to look at classes again for Bennie and I.
We did puppy class this winter, and then because I dislike driving in snow I put off the next level of classes until Spring.

Now I see that they don't have days/times that work for me (bummer), but they DO have a Rally-O trial/workshop one day event. It'll probably be a complete sh*t show with B. We've been shut ins for so much of the winter. Now she is burgeoning into adolescence and the world is SO much more exciting than me. But we'll never improve if we don't take a risk and try!

The other day I took her to the pet store with me. As predicted she was a bit of a spaz when we first walked in the door-- just SO excited to see people. But she calmed down relatively quickly- I was astonished as I'd just accepted that I likely wouldn't accomplish much more than a step or two inside and then back out again. She was happy to show off some of her tricks for the employees. She did a wicked fast spin in both directions and I asked me if we did any sports training with her 😂 Um, nope. Just working on basics. Again.


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## lily cd re

What a life, and a well earned retirement. Lily is in retirement now for the most part. She will still be my CGC neutral dog and she will help me measure progress with reactive client dogs. She is a very neutral unreactive girl, but will be working at distance for me to evaluate lowering thresholds for reactive dogs I train (so she will always be very safe). Overall though our pursuit of new titles has wound down as of yesterday with some extra rally Master points and her RM8 title. As she does many days she will rest on the sofa for much of the day today, well deserved after piling in the car at just before 6 AM yesterday. She has never loved being up before dawn, but then again she never had to do any of the driving and always slept well on the road.

Hey, Javvy Pups get ready for some serious work. Your turn is up. We will tweak up Rally Intermediate to work on as our next bit. He needs to get used to the show environment and I want him to get experience with a judge in the ring without anyone touching him. Once that settles in then we will get the last (of 3) beginner novice legs for that title. After that we will polish up novice and hopefully get that done in good order. BennieJets COVID isolation turned a lot of dogs into "spazzes," including Javelin, hence some back to basics in the remainder of 2022. A number of people asked after Javvy at the trial I took Lily to yesterday. All of those conversations turned into here are the bad things that happened because of COVID. We had to stay home for a while, but it is time to get back out in the world, right?


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## 94Magna_Tom

Congratulations! I hope Lilly enjoys retirement! Time to show your stuff to your big Sis Javelin!


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