# Defeated



## topazdelmi (Dec 17, 2016)

Im so upset about jinx. Shes so aggressive she will be fine just her and i walking the yard then just turn around and bite my legs. Not nip actually bite. I have to hold the leash away from me she will be pulling and snarling. Shes bitten my 4 year old several times now with him just sitting on the floor watching tv. I dont put my 8 month old on the floor when shes out i have him in his pac n play cause im scared she will bite him. I was sitting on the couch with the baby in my lap and she jumped up on my legs..i told her down and pointed to the floor she bit my hand then started attacking my legs ...i have to get rid of her i cant have an aggressive dog. Im so upset.

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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think you are making the right decision - your children's safety has to come first. Did she come from a breeder, or a rescue? And will they take her back?


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## topazdelmi (Dec 17, 2016)

Shes so sweet when shes not being aggressive. I bought her from a lady locally. Shes not a breeder or rescue.

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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

topazdelmi said:


> Shes so sweet when shes not being aggressive. I bought her from a lady locally. Shes not a breeder or rescue.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


How old is she ? Is she your first dog and are you sure this is not just puppy behavior ? Do you have a video of her being aggressive ?

Ok, I saw your first post. I don't think this is aggression, just bad puppy behavior. Since you have two young kids and don't seem tomhave a lot of dog experience, I think this is a bad match for you. It's hard enough to raise toddlers without having an excited, badly behaved puppy jumping in their faces and biting them, even if just to play. It doesn't make a difference, it hurts your kids just the same.

If you decide to keep her, you need help from a good, professional trainer. Ideally someone who would come to your house. If you decide to rehome her, do it as soon as possible, to make it easier on her and also your family. Do not place her in a home with young kids and be very honest about her biting behavior. And give her to someone with experience. Last thing you want is to have her rehomed again, she looks like a lovely pup.

Good luck.


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## topazdelmi (Dec 17, 2016)

Shes 5 months. She is not my first dog. I have had pits and huskys and they were all trained and not agressive. She did the puppy nipping the first few days and that wasnt bad i could handle that but this is biting.shes not even growling like playing this is snarling.I do not have a video.

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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

topazdelmi said:


> Shes 5 months. She is not my first dog. I have had pits and huskys and they were all trained and not agressive. She did the puppy nipping the first few days and that wasnt bad i could handle that but this is biting.shes not even growling like playing this is snarling.I do not have a video.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


See my post below. I answered while you were writing.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

It sounds like puppy play from a puppy who was too long with her siblings and not human socialized. She is treating you like another puppy in her litter. Puppy play can be quite excitedly violent. It could be mental illness but this is unlikely. This puppy needs an experienced trainer.
Eric.


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## topazdelmi (Dec 17, 2016)

So i just got a response from the previous owner and she said they were always at work and so she was mostly in her kennel all day ? so it sounds like she had very little human interaction.

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## Sammy the spoo (Jul 7, 2016)

Hi topazdelmi - it sounds like you are at a turning point with this puppy. My gut feeling is that your puppy's behaviour is much of what Eric talks about, so likely very correctable with lots of patience and training. But on the other hand, there is a lot on your plate too with two little ones (and I have young kids, so I understand the hectic nature of the house). From your posts, it sounds like you are at day 7-8 of having Jinx, and in my opinion she is just figuring out your house rules. What do you think? It may be a few weeks of intense training or maybe months... 

This is going to be a tough decision. If you decide to keep the puppy, please write back and we hope to be able to give you ideas on training. The PF has been a wonderful resource for me so far and I'm positive they will be happy to help you along.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Buck was quite a land shark at that age. I wore long sleeves and jeans in Houston's heat to protect my arms and legs. It passed with distractions, training but it took a while and was seriously annoying. We had a member on PF who had gotten a puppy that seemed alarmingly aggressive and wasn't working out with her kids. Her breeder exchanged the biter with another. She wrote that the original puppy bit the breeder! If your experience and judgement is telling you that this puppy presents a threat, absolutely return her.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

With young children, I totally understand why you would feel like you need to rehome her. I support you either way in your decision--I know it's hard


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

It's a really tough decision to rehome a dog. But if you feel like this is not the right dog for you, then don't let anyone guilt you into keeping her.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Re-homing would be the best for the family and the dog. With children that smalls you can not take a chance of them getting bit. She is jealous of the children it looks to me like. As an example, my dogs go nuts if someone male of female hugs me. They want me all to themselves and they do not like children (i have none so that is not a problem). Sounds to me the dog should be with an older couple with no children or at least grown where they do not need the attention young ones do. It would take a lot of training and follow up, or demanding training. When I speak of demanding I mean being really tough and that can break a dogs spirit and it take awhile for them to get it back.


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## topazdelmi (Dec 17, 2016)

I have beem messaging the lady i got her from...shes mad at me saying i was unprepared for the dog. At no time did she mentin jinx being kenneled all day and night except for a few hours in the evening. So the dog wasnt socialised. I let jinx out all day but watch her constantly and work with her constantly. She gets walked every hour for 15 minutes and i even wake up at 12 and 3am to walk her. She has over over 100.00 just in chew toys and chew treats to occupy her. Even puzzle toys to engage her brain. I get on the floor with her and work with her. And she get to run the backyard 3 times a day to excerise. We already had a depsoit to fence in the rest of our land (2acres) so she could run that part.So yes i was prepared for her...just not the biting. 

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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

topazdelmi said:


> I have beem messaging the lady i got her from...shes mad at me saying i was unprepared for the dog. At no time did she mentin jinx being kenneled all day and night except for a few hours in the evening. So the dog wasnt socialised. I let jinx out all day but watch her constantly and work with her constantly. She gets walked every hour for 15 minutes and i even wake up at 12 and 3am to walk her. She has over over 100.00 just in chew toys and chew treats to occupy her. Even puzzle toys to engage her brain. I get on the floor with her and work with her. And she get to run the backyard 3 times a day to excerise. We already had a depsoit to fence in the rest of our land (2acres) so she could run that part.So yes i was prepared for her...just not the biting.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


]
With the time you are spending, this puppy will "eventually" behave as you wish. You may need advise from an experienced trainer. That being said, it is early days and a different dog might be a better option for you and your young children. I sympathize with you. You have taken on someone else's problem dog. Another way would be to mirror the behavior of the previous owner and crate the dog while not supervised. Take it out of the crate for training and treat for good behavior. Expose him under supervision to friends and family and treat for good behavior. You have a lot on your plate. Take some off or eat it a little at a time.
Eric.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Bless your heart! You must be exhausted! Please don't judge all Poodle puppies in general, by Jinx. I did think it a bit odd that she would jump into a pool in the winter. She's a wild thing, cute as all get out, but wild. She's an older puppy with special needs thanks to her cruel confinement and lack of socialization. Take her back. It's unfair to your family or to you, otherwise. A biddable, belly up Poodle puppy will be a challenge at times. One that has been so deprived may be one forever.


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## blueroan (Dec 28, 2015)

Poor Jinx! 

I will tell you that my puppy, Honey, even as an 8 week old was quite the nipper. It was hard even petting her without getting bit. But she knew nothing at all, and didn't even like being held tightly...she would scream like you're killing her. 

We all had to work very hard with her (at 8 weeks!). With the holding thing, I would pick her up, squeeze her gently, then immediately put her down. Eventually she got to realize that nothing bad happened, and she got to like it. 

With the biting, yes I agree, lots of long sleeves! lol. I would pet her over and over and OVER again and say NO every time she tried to bite. When I got a few pets in without biting, then I quit. When she went through teething omigosh I thought I was't going to survive without being eaten as she is normally nippy in the first place.

You said Jinx is 5mths? Teething for sure. She will be extra bitey at this stage. Do you have baby gates around when your children are playing? That's probably your best bet if you decide to keep her.

I'd say keep working with her because you know she has had no socializing so no idea that she is being "bad". Get some teething toys if you don't already have some. See if she'll let you massage her gums (mine liked that, seemed to feel good!). I also let mine eat an ice cube in a dish, and she LOVED that because her teeth hurt. 

If you are keeping her, please keep asking questions, we'll all help!


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

It sounds like you are doing your best with her, but something has to give. It sounds more like puppy nipping than real aggression, but the young children really complicate things. I think you could handle a better socialized puppy, and you could handle Jinx without young children involved, but this combination may be unworkable.


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## Lori G (Sep 19, 2014)

Are you crating her for calm periods throughout the day? Or confining her with baby gates or ex pens? I think you would see great progress if she is crated after a walk and/play time/ training session. I agree with what's been said...I don't think this is aggression...just wild poodle puppy play. She hasn't learned boundaries yet.

We are a retired couple with a new puppy and it is exhausting for us, let alone if we had small kids. For the first week or ten days we had her out of her kennel most of the day but we found we were too exhausted and she was getting too wound up and overstimulated. Now she has time in the morning for playing, going out to potty, etc then she's in her crate for her "morning nap". Then out again for lunch, playing, pottying, a walk, etc. then back to the crate for some afternoon quiet time. Same routine for evening. All that crate time during the day/evening probably adds up to about 4 hours. This has been a game changer for our state of mind, and hers. My daughter has young children so I totally understand where you are with that, and can only imagine the challenge of an unsolcialized puppy. If you want to keep the pup, just put her on a schedule of playing and confinement to settle her down. If it's just not going to work out, rehome her and don't feel bad about it. She will do fine with the right home, and you will do fine with the right poodle pup.

I had read this forum for a couple years after our Aussie died before getting our poodle. I thought I'd understood the smarts and energy...and boy is it true! Our poodle is very social and will do whatever it takes to get your attention. A fenced yard will be great but simply turning her out to the yard alone will not solve her problem. Just like your kids, she needs training to understand her boundaries and proper etiquette. Poodles have a very different personality and needs than our Aussie, and your pits and huskies.


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## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

This puppy doesn't really sound like a good match for you. With her upbringing and lack of socialization/training, she'll probably need significant time and effort put into her training for her to be a good pet, and with such young children, that doesn't sound like something you'll be able to do. Even a well-socialized puppy with a calm temperament is going to be a challenge to train with babies in the house. The person you got her from doesn't sound like the greatest...can you find a good rescue who can find her an appropriate home? You might then consider an adult poodle with such young children. They'll already be past the crazy puppy behavior, housebreaking, and teething stages and will hopefully have some basic manners already.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

There is a world of difference between and puppy and say a 2 year old poodle, it is like day and night even in just training them. I have had puppies, but most of mine have been 8 months to5 years when I got them. Some house broken and socialized and some not, but only takes a short time to train.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I don't think this behavior is really much more than puppy exuberance, but I don't think this is a great situation for your very young children. Puppies are hard under the best of circumstances (and Jinx' early days don't sound like the best circumstances). Children are hard since we don't get to practice for parenting before becoming parents. The two together are really hard! One of my vivid memories from childhood is of my mom putting my 2-3 year old brother and me (5 years old) in rain gear to take our beagle pup for a walk in the rain and then all of us dragging ourselves around the neighborhood in what seemed like a monsoon trying to get the puppy to pee and poo. It wasn't fun for anyone (puppy included I think). In the long run she became a well loved and long lived family dog, but it could have been much fairer all around had she arrived when I was six and my brother was less a toddler than he was.

When we want a family dog as a companion for children I think we all hope to create lovely memories, a great feeling for companion animals, and a way for children to learn life responsibilities. Sadly this situation does not sound like those are the kinds of things that are happening for you, your children 
or for Jinx. I know it is really hard to think about rehoming a dog, but in this case suggest that this may really be the fairest and safest thing for all concerned. Don't think of this as a defeat, but instead a strategic retreat with honor if you do decide to rehome her. Do make sure you work with a good rescue group to make sure she ends up in a home where the people will be able to give her the right kind of situation. If you decide to keep Jinx I strongly recommend that you seek assistance with helping her to learn some puppy manners.


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## topazdelmi (Dec 17, 2016)

Thought i would give a little update. I have read over all the posts as they got posted and i greatly appreciate all the feedback and took lori G suggestion on crating her to calm her. That has been such a game changer for us. I let her eat then take her for a walk them let her play and when i see her start getting worked up o crate her. I moved her crate into our extra room so she couldnt see us and let her get some quiet time. Then i repeat after a little while of quiet time. She is focusing more and im getting a better feedback on training her. She even went to our door sat and whined to be walked cause she had to potty ...i was shocked and excited that she let me know.i feel like maybe their is hope?

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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

topazdelmi said:


> Thought i would give a little update. I have read over all the posts as they got posted and i greatly appreciate all the feedback and took lori G suggestion on crating her to calm her. That has been such a game changer for us. I let her eat then take her for a walk them let her play and when i see her start getting worked up o crate her. I moved her crate into our extra room so she couldnt see us and let her get some quiet time. Then i repeat after a little while of quiet time. She is focusing more and im getting a better feedback on training her. She even went to our door sat and whined to be walked cause she had to potty ...i was shocked and excited that she let me know.i feel like maybe their is hope?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Sounds like good progress and a great way for you to get a break to recharge your batteries !


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## Lori G (Sep 19, 2014)

topazdelmi, I am so happy to hear that! Merry Christmas! Now you can enjoy the Big Day with your kids, knowing your dog is napping and can soon enjoy a nice time with family.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Congratulations! topazdelmi you gave yourself the best present in the world by taking using the crate as good for all to heart! One of my first ever private clients had never used crates for their two mpoos. One wasn't housebroken at almost a year old and the other one (male) marked in the house as well as being aggressive when overstimulated. The male had never been allowed a safe space to decompress since one of the owners believed that continuing to pet the dog when he was overstimulated and growling then biting would train away his problems. The dog was very grateful for the crate as a safe space. Eventually you will be able to put the crate away if you want, but for smaller dogs leaving a crate out can also be a very effective long term strategy. We don't have crates out anymore since we don't have room for them in the house, but all three of my dogs know how to be relaxed in a crate when I need them to be.


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