# Poodle Ears and Poultry Allergy



## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

Hello

My Miniature Poodle has developed an ear problem, which has manifested itself in the form of dirty ears, shaking her head and scratching. 

During treatment with Canaural (topical steroid drops) from the vet nothing changed. She had two two week courses.

Since the vet mentioned allergy testing, I have taken her off chicken and put her onto turkey (she's a BARF dog). Whether this change helped or not, she recovered from the condition in one of her ears to the extent that she no longer scratches it. The condition continues in her other ear.

So the steroids have now stopped and we're awaiting blood taking for allergy testing on Tuesday. She has to have the steroids out of her system for the testing. I am just about to take her off poultry altogether and feed rabbit, fish and pork.

First off, hands up - I didn't clean her ears as often as I should have done in the first place. Not through laziness but through not seeing (or smelling) an symptoms until they crept up on me. Her ears appear quite clean now - I look down them with a torch every day, and am flushing them daily with Sancerum. 

So I'm just wondering - has anyone else experienced an ear condition caused by poultry feeding? Is it all that common? I should also mention that she has a fresh beef bone every day... could this be causing it?

I know the vet is the best thing, and I do trust the procedure, but the vets seem so young these days!

Any advice appreciated.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Interesting, I seem to be experiencing the same with Kai (11 months). I, like you did not notice an issue until it was pretty smelly. I have been cleaning often and plucking more. I am going to start a vinigar and water wash to help it. The vet only detected a very mild amount of yeast so no infection. I had not considered chicken - but I will now. 

I wish I had advise but I will follow this thread with you in hopes there is some improvement and maybe add to it.

The proteins I feed most often are chicken, lamb, pork, fish, beef. None of my other dogs have this problem. I was thinking it was a puppy thing and that his ears grew more hair in them then my other two.


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

Hello Olie

Ruscha is only just over a year too. I wonder if younger dogs tend to get these things and then grow out of it?

My vet never seems to hear me when I ask/suggest that some illnesses are puppyhood things. Like cats and their gunky eyes - it only happens when they're kittens.

I also wonder if it has something to do with the baby hair with Poodles. Surely the finer hair of the puppy coat is the same inside the ear? And then it must change like the rest of the coat? So maybe the younger ear hair is more likely to cause yeast? 

Let's hope some experienced people help us both!


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## caroline429 (Mar 5, 2012)

I will admit to being a novice when it comes to poodle ears (Cali being my first poodle) but have more experience with dog allergies than I'd like. 

Repeated, stubborn ear infections can definitely be a sign of a food allergy. The histamine released when an allergenic food is eaten causes the skin to become inflammed. Everyone's skin, be it dog, cat or human, has some amount of yeast and bacteria on it. Healthy skin keeps the numbers under control so they don't bother the dog. When the skin becomes inflammed, its ability to keep yeast/bacteria down is compromised and the yeast and bacteria can quickly multiply leading to problems like ear infections, hot spots, loss of hair etc. This is further exacerbated by your dog scratching his inflammed skin. This causes minute openings in the skin the allows the bacteria and yeast to really go to town. With respect to the ears, the inside of the ears contains some very delicate skin which is why this area is often one of the first to show signs of an allergy.

When a dog has food allergies, he is reacting to the protein in the food. Usually allergies come about with repeated exposure to a food, but it is not unheard of for a dog to develop an allergy to a food after only eating it a few times. Unfortunately, because of this it is hard to say definitively whether the poultry is causing the problem or not. If your dog's diet has been mainly poultry-based, it would make sense to suspect it though. One of my Rotties used to get ear infections if she ate turkey. This was the only food that ever affected her ears which was weird because other foods would cause havoc elsewhere but leave her ears untouched.

There are a couple of ways to identify food allergies. One is through an elimination diet. This is done by feeding one or two novel foods (food never, ever eaten before in any form) to a dog for about six weeks. The dog eats only these foods and absolutely nothing else. One of the foods is usually a meat, if you use two foods, the other is veggie or a grain depending on your dietary beliefs. It can take up to six weeks for the reaction to die down, that's why it has to be done for this length of time. It's not something I would ever do with a growing pupppy because a homemade elimination diet is usually unbalanced. Adult dogs are okay going this route. I did it for both my previous dogs with no ill-effects to their health and did manage to get to the bottom of their food problems.

There are a few kibbles that are made specifically for dogs with food allergies. They contain hydrolzyed proteins, that is proteins that have been made so small that the dog's body won't recognize them and react. They work well for some dogs. Purina HA is one that comes to mind. It is balanced and comes in both puppy and adult formulas. I understand that most people who feed a homemade diet would be hesitant to go that route but it's something to keep in mind in case allergies get to the point where you're tearing your own hair out!!

Once I figured out that my dogs were reacting to some foods, I found it very important not to feed more than one protein source at a time. That way, if the dog started showing signs of a problem, I immediately knew which food was causing it. I fed a cooked homemade diet so it was easy to have complete control over what foods they ate. 

Dogs with food allergies can also have contact and inhalant allergies (grass, pollen, etc) as well. Sometimes it isn't possible to eradicate all allergens but if you can get the food allergies under control, you can lessen the symptoms.

Poodles are prone to allergies. I suspect Cali may well have some. She scratches more than usual but so far hasn't had any ear infections (touch wood!!). For now, I'm just keeping with her current food and being very careful not to introduce any new foods to her in case the day comes when I need a novel protein source for her. One of my Rotties lived to 13 1/2 and had become allergic to just about every meat source out there including most of the exotic ones. I think about the only thing left I hadn't fed her was frogs' legs!!

And now you probably know more about food allergies than you ever wanted to know.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Ruscha_Baby said:


> I also wonder if it has something to do with the baby hair with Poodles. Surely the finer hair of the puppy coat is the same inside the ear? And then it must change like the rest of the coat? So maybe the younger ear hair is more likely to cause yeast?
> 
> Let's hope some experienced people help us both!


I have suspected this. Olie had similar issues as a pup and did have a couple ear infections, however Kai has no ear infections and does not go in hard scratching. I will let you know how the V & W washing goes.

Olie is 3 now and we have not had issues in almost 2 years.


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Nickel experienced the exact same thing when he was younger. We did elimination diet and found out that he's allergic to chicken (chicken kibbles, organic BARF … just anything chicken). He hates anything with alcohol so I use a mixture of organic apple cider vinegar and water to clean his ears and no more ear infection in the past 1.5 years (knock knock). 

I first used more water in the mixture so that he didn't get too irritated by the vinegar. Now it's around 1:1. During swimming season, I add a little bit of rubbing alcohol to it. He can detect it if I add too much. I wet half a cotton ball with the ACV solution and put in his ear and massage. Then I put in the other half of the cotton ball and massage and that helps to absorb whatever moisture in the ear. Then I use a cotton wipe to clean it out.

I clean his ears once a week and also after each swimming session. I also flip his ears up when he's taking a nap to encourage air flow. I also pull out the hair in his ears while watching TV - just a little at a time - and that seems to help too.


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

Just clicking "thanks" doesn't seem enough! If I might just express my gratitude to all here - it really is lovely that people go out of their way to offer such excellent advice!

Caroline429 - I have read your post carefully, and have printed off. So kind of you. Thank you so much.

Olie - great that we're thinking along the same lines. Thank you for all you have said, and I would always be very keen to hear updates.

Schnauzerpoodle - I am very grateful. Will be commencing the ACV and water wash today (just bought some ACV - really interesting stuff!). Thank you.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Don't rinse ears too often - causes more damage than good. Not more often than once a week if they are coming up clean. If there is a plug and your vet cannot see the ear drum, then they should be kept moist to loosen the plug and help get it out.

What was your dog's cytology findings?


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

tortoise said:


> Don't rinse ears too often - causes more damage than good. Not more often than once a week if they are coming up clean. If there is a plug and your vet cannot see the ear drum, then they should be kept moist to loosen the plug and help get it out.
> 
> What was your dog's cytology findings?


Not sure what cytology findings are but I will take a guess. The vet took an ear swab a couple of weeks ago, which came back clear.

Thanks for the advice re the vinegar. Until a couple of days ago I had been washing daily with Sancerum and wiping brown dirt away with a dry cotton cloth. Now the brown dirt no longer seems to be make an appearance but I am still not convinced we are out of the woods because I have just been awoken (it's 04:17 unfortunately) by the sound of ear kicking. I think my mind has developed a nocturnal ear alarm!

I haven't mentioned so far (I don't think) but the reason I am doubting an allergy is because symptoms seem to have disappeared from her right ear and remain at a reduced level in left. Also, the scabby wound that she has caused on her cheek has gone from the right side. The scab is still there on the left side but has reduced, and she often won't kick the top off the scab for a couple of days. As the scab dries out I am wondering if this itself is causing some itching.

Her ears still seem a little too pink inside though, and the inside is slightly warmer to touch (with well washed hands) than I would like. I'm using my Toy as the ear benchmark to aim for with the Miniature, as she is never sick and the inside of her ears seems almost blue at times - such healthy ears! I know the inside of my Miniature's ears has been almost white in the past, and I guess this is what I am aiming for again.

Ok, have reset my internal alarm... will try for some more sleep...

Any further advice greatly appreciated. Thank you.


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

Just wanted to mention that I have now switched her to fresh wild rabbit (wow those bones make a loud crunch) just in case it is an allergy to poultry in general. She also has dried fish skins, a daily frozen beef or pork bone from the butcher and daily salmon oil or a split evening primrose oil capsule. Her poo is reliably excellent and she has the energy I could only dream of; a very happy dog in all other respects.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

For ear cleaners try the blue lightning.. or blue power ear cleaner that you can make.. same thing just cant remember the exact name..


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