# Craziness on leash around other dogs



## Thomazine (Aug 9, 2020)

Background: I missed out on our Young Dog training class (a bridge between puppy kindergarten and Obedience) because of persistent giardia, and the next sessions filled up in two hours when I couldn’t get to my computer. So frustrating!

I know I need to work with my seven month old puppy on being calm when he sees other dogs out and about. I’m just not sure how to do it outside of a class environment. He goes into this leaping, whining, barking frenzy, spinning around me and jerking the leash when he jumps. It’s like having a whirlwind on the leash. I’ve tried calling his name sharply, trying to capture his eyes, trying to get him to sit (although I’ve since read that this can increase the dog’s frustration.) These tricks work well with distracting cyclists, joggers etc, but not dogs. And he’s not interested in treats when he gets this excited.

He is never hostile to other dogs, and has good manners on play dates.

Suggestions very welcome!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

My best advice to you is distance. Even if you have to start from a football field away, practise at a distance that keeps your puppy under threshold. When he’s in that fired-up state he can’t see or hear you, so I’d also suggest practising a solid “let’s go!” and u-turn, just in case you find yourselves in a situation where you’ve inadvertently gotten too close and he’s completely checked out. Muscle memory will kick in if you rehearse this enough.

So “Let’s go!” then do a u-turn and walk briskly away. As soon as he catches up, treat while continuing your forward momentum. Within a few tries, he should start pivoting as soon as he hears the command. Make it a fun game.

Here’s a good book about the importance of working under threshold:









Fired Up, Frantic, and Freaked Out: Training the Crazy Dog from Over the Top to Under Control (Training Great Dogs): Baugh, Laura VanArendonk: 9780985934927: Amazon.com: Books


Fired Up, Frantic, and Freaked Out: Training the Crazy Dog from Over the Top to Under Control (Training Great Dogs) [Baugh, Laura VanArendonk] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Fired Up, Frantic, and Freaked Out: Training the Crazy Dog from Over the Top to Under Control...



www.amazon.com





Some people looooove to let their dogs meet every dog they encounter on leashed walks. They think it’s “socialization” while I tend to think it’s just asking for trouble. First, the leash and narrow sidewalks can interfere with natural canine greeting behaviours. This can create frustration, confusion, or worse. Plus, it teaches your puppy that he gets to say hi to every dog he sees. Then he’s understandably frustrated when he can’t. If possible, we cross the street when we see a dog or make a nice wide detour around them. Meetings are intentional and on our terms, ideally off-leash and with a dog we already know.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

I think he'll mellow out as he ages. Basil's kind of a butthead to reactive dogs by holding eye contact with them. I reel Basil's leash in so it's like 6 inches from my hand and just keep walking.


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## Thomazine (Aug 9, 2020)

What do you do when it’s not leashed dogs, but dogs behind fences next to the sidewalks so you can’t turn away..? We have them in every block around us, and we have to get past them somehow.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

We just walk to the other side. There's only so much coaxing you can do when they are afraid. They just sit down or freeze to observe the dog. Sometimes you cross the street so you can continue or go back and take a different sidewalk. It doesn't mean you failed. Sometimes they just need physical distancing. Get that book that Peggy recommended. We have a copy. It'll help you.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Courtesy of Click-N-Treat, a PF member and certified CPDT






This is the most valuable thing you can teach your dog. More valuable than sit. What to do when worried? look at that! It’s a game to play for this situation. Keep your dog a long distance from other dogs, and play look at that. One event learning can be undone, but do not give Winnie a chance to rehearse barking and lunging.

LAT is a training plan to either prevent your dog from becoming reactive, or rehabilitating dogs who have been traumatized, or dogs who are reactive for whatever reason.

LAT requires distance. That's critical. How far that distance is depends on the dog you are training. Some dogs lose their cool within 30 feet. Others within 10 feet. And still others flip out at any dog within a city block. So, there are no hard and fast rules about how far apart the trainer and dog should be. Close enough to notice, not so close the dog freaks out.

The reason you start practicing LAT in a low distraction environment, and gradually up the distraction level, is because you want to teach the dog how to play really well before you need it. The cue, "Look at that!" should be heavily rewarded to the point where your dog feels like they won the jackpot at a slot machine the second you say it.

So, your dog knows how to play LAT and now you're on a walk. And your dog sees a trigger in the distance. Trigger could be anything that your dog is unsure of--another dog, a kid, a skateboard, a man with a hat. If your dog shifts from meandering along sniffing bushes and fire plugs, and suddenly stands still and leans forward, you've found a trigger. This is your cue to say, "Look at that!"

Classical conditioning will kick in. You've paired that cue with reinforcement so often your dog will reflexively turn toward you looking for a treat. Give a treat, cue another look at that, now... and this is important, move away with your dog. By moving away from the trigger, you'll reward your dog twice. Once with a treat, and second by getting away from the upsetting thing. After playing LAT and moving away, over and over with similar triggers, your dog will hopefully change how they feel about seeing a trigger. Less upset, more relaxed. The trigger predicts a fun game, instead of flooding the dog with stress hormones.

I pull LAT out of my tool kit whenever my dog is concerned about something. It basically gives the dog something to do other than freak out.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

I recommend the book Feisty Fido. It's a short, fast read on leash reactivity, regardless of whether it's caused by fear or excitement, and recommends teaching your dog two cues: "Watch" and "Turn." When your dog sees another dog, he should automatically look at you (which they refer to as an AutoWatch). The authors provide tips on how to get started teaching this behavior and tips on raising the difficulty until the behavior is automatic. This works well when you see another dog coming. For those times when you're surprised by a dog, perhaps you turn a corner and suddenly a dog is right in your face, they recommend making an immediate U-Turn. Again, they explain and offer tips on raising the criteria.

@Phaz23 - did you recently have a question about an excited greeter? This can work well for him, too.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

LAT is the key. It teaches the dog that they can look briefly at new things in the environment and to quickly check back in with you and to then stay connected to you when there is something that makes them worry or otherwise go over threshold. The key is to get the LAT good enough that being reconnected to you keeps them from reaching the reactive threshold. Once a dog has gone over the top there is very little to do until you can get out of the overstimulating situation. Liz I haven't read that book, but it sounds really excellent, similar in strategy to LAT.

Rose N Poos, BTW Click is a Karen Pryor Academy certified trainer and I am currently the only CPDT-KA certified trainer in PF.


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## Thomazine (Aug 9, 2020)

Thank you SO much for these suggestions! I’ve been having him sit with me on our front porch, and when a dog walks past on the road, I get him to sit (if he gets up) and look at me while I treat him, and then I praise him for “Calm!” and try for “Settle!” (He goes down and stays there.) So I think I already started the LAT without really knowing what it was..? I’m going to read up on how to take that from home to when we’re outside, walking around.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

lily cd re said:


> Liz I haven't read that book, but it sounds really excellent, similar in strategy to LAT.


Yep, it's Trisha McConnell. It very much relies on the same skill as LAT. I believe I have mentioned that with my next dog, I will train 1) marker, 2) name, 3) LAT in that order commencing immediately upon arrival.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Liz said:


> Yep, it's Trisha McConnell. It very much relies on the same skill as LAT. I believe I have mentioned that with my next dog, I will train 1) marker, 2) name, 3) LAT in that order commencing immediately upon arrival.


Hi Liz. What is marker?


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Hi Liz. What is marker?


A marker word (usually "yes") or a clicker or both. It's your way of letting the dog know it got it right. Here's a quick tutorial from a hasty google search. There are probably YouTube videos on how to train a marker.

As our most revered members have pointed out, LAT is essential, Tom. Feel free to ask as many questions about LAT and how to raise difficulty.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Yes Liz LAT is one of the most useful tools any dog owner can own! Since I don't have good coordination for clickers I use verbal markers. Yes means that was great and now I will pay you (treat, pets or a quick play break). Good means that was nice but let's keep going and do another behavior in a chain that we are building on. And Uh oh, well that doesn't need much of an explanation does it? BTW I think I have Feisty Fido. My interest in reading it is definitely sparked.

Thomazine it sounds like you have instinctively started on LAT out on the front porch. Keep it up and you will lick your problem.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

[*Taking notes*]


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Catherine, you could write a highly valuable "New Puppy Training Primer" for all the new puppies here, with short descriptions and links to essentially trainings. You know, with all the free time you have 🤣


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## Thomazine (Aug 9, 2020)

All I knew was that I didn’t want my dog barking and going crazy when dogs walked past our yard like literally EVERY DOG on our block!


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

It's really key to train impulse control and calmness throughout the first two years, until maturity. LAT gets you 90% there.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Liz said:


> Catherine, you could write a highly valuable "New Puppy Training Primer" for all the new puppies here, with short descriptions and links to essentially trainings. You know, with all the free time you have 🤣



Free time?  What's that?


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

lily cd re said:


> Rose N Poos, BTW Click is a Karen Pryor Academy certified trainer and I am currently the only CPDT-KA certified trainer in PF.


Thanks for the clarification  My apologies to both of you for the incorrect identification.


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## PowersPup (Aug 28, 2020)

I will second LAT as a game-changing skill. It has made a huge difference with my now 7-month old mini puppy. He went from stopping, pulling and jumping toward other dogs when we saw them on our walks to just looking at them and maintaining the walk. I also use it when Topper is started by sounds - it doesn't seem to matter what the stimulus is, LAT helps Topper return his focus to me and stay calmer. Too bad I didn't think to use it during our group obedience class today. It was a disaster because he was so distracted and became overwhelmed.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Liz said:


> A marker word (usually "yes") or a clicker or both. It's your way of letting the dog know it got it right. Here's a quick tutorial from a hasty google search. There are probably YouTube videos on how to train a marker.
> 
> As our most revered members have pointed out, LAT is essential, Tom. Feel free to ask as many questions about LAT and how to raise difficulty.


Thanks for the clarification. I knew that! I just didn't recognize it when you listed it as "marker". "Marker Word" clears it up! I will start in on LAT right away!


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

If you'd like a 4th item, it would be "Settle," as in settling on a mat. Such a key skill.


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