# Air Snapping, Demand Barking, Nipping



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

When Peggy is frustrated, she will bark sharply and snap in the air. Sometimes also (but only with me) she'll dart forward, nip once or twice rapidly, and then jump back. She's never broken skin.

If I say "NO" it gets much worse, so I've learned to just shut down, look away, and wait until she settles. If I commit to this, it usually only takes a few seconds before she stops. But it can escalate again quickly if I reach for her or raise my voice.

These outbursts most commonly happen:

1. If she wants to jump in the bathtub and I won't let her. 

2. If I run in the house and she gets over-excited and starts chasing me, but then I abruptly try to stop the game.

3. If I ask for too much from her before throwing her ball. 

I guess my question is: Is this normal over-arousal behaviour for a puppy? Does air-snapping typically accompany demand barking? And am I doing the right thing to diffuse the situation?

The outbursts have declined dramatically in the past month, but I'm not sure if that's Peggy "growing up" (she's now 6 months old) or if I'm just getting better at instinctively stopping them before they really start.

(I'll be honest - They sometimes scare me and it takes a lot out of me to remain calm.)


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Yes, typical puppy behavior that will eventually go away. It’s hard to contain frustration or excitement at that age...

I think you’re doing well with your approach. Ignoring is the way to go, as just about anything else will trigger more excitement.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> Yes, typical puppy behavior that will eventually go away. It’s hard to contain frustration or excitement at that age...
> 
> I think you’re doing well with your approach. Ignoring is the way to go, as just about anything else will trigger more excitement.


This is comforting. Thank you. I have zero recollection of my mini ever behaving this way, but perhaps her size made it less impactful. 

One thing I've noticed about Peggy is, much like a toddler, she works very hard at communicating, and that in itself can be frustrating for her.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Oh yes! She has to learn that that behavior won't get her anything. I'd walk away...out of the room when she does any of those things. Close the door and wait till you hear her quiet down, come back out. Repeat as necessary. This back and forth should give her the picture. Additionally, when she sits or stands (your preference) and she does this calmly and quietly, jack pot her with something she loves, be it affection, a treat that you have in various high up places in little bowls so they're within easy reach. Show her what behavior works to her advantage and what behavior clearly does not. You're certainly on the right track for sure. I'd just make it a little more concise so there's no question. Make sure your husband and anyone who interacts with her does the same. Breaking it down:



1. If she wants to jump in the bathtub and I won't let her. Close her out, crate her or otherwise prevent her from acting that way.

2. If I run in the house and she gets over-excited and starts chasing me, but then I abruptly try to stop the game. This is good what you're doing! Obnoxious behavior = game over...positively. :rockon:

3. If I ask for too much from her before throwing her ball. She's frustrated. Perhaps ask for only one trick (sit, down or whatever). Again, try to _prevent_ her from practicing that awful behavior. When she grows up more, has a little more training, you can ask for a couple things first. If you can throw the ball *BEFORE* she acts up, she will learn that she _will _get the ball and sitting or waiting politely is what will get her the ball. So hurry and throw it before she gets a chance to misbehave. If she beats you to it, starts acting obnoxious, go inside and stop the game. Wait 30 seconds, go out and try again. Repeat as necessary. 

I guess my question is: Is this normal over-arousal behaviour for a puppy? Does air-snapping typically accompany demand barking? And am I doing the right thing to diffuse the situation? It's normal, depending on a lot of things but unacceptable. (imo) Has she been "over-indulged?" Maybe that's the wrong way to term it. Or perhaps too much reaction to her every action or move? Try to not react to attention seeking behaviors. I never had a puppy do that more than once because I simply won't tolerate it. I remove all attention immediately. Zero reaction, no vocalization, no looking at, no saying, "no," no nothing but walking away. And I try to prevent situations that may tend to incite this behavior.

The outbursts have declined dramatically in the past month, but I'm not sure if that's Peggy "growing up" (she's now 6 months old) or if I'm just getting better at instinctively stopping them before they really start. Probably some of both. I think you're doing fine and that's why they're declining, but perhaps you can do even more.

(I'll be honest - They sometimes scare me and it takes a lot out of me to remain calm.) Pour a glass of wine and go in the other room away from her. Crate her if needed. Sometimes we all need breaks. Dogs can get overly excitable like babies or toddlers and they need a quiet time to re-set. 

All these scenarios you bring up can also be reduced by more training and hard physical exercise. I assume you're still taking her to obedience class? You might want to increase some skills she's learned or is learning and ask for those "tricks" a second before you think she's about to act up with unwanted behaviors. Keep a watchful eye. If you see it coming, (usually we can anticipate when some of those unwanted behaviors are about to happen) intercept quickly with a request to sit or down or shake hands or heel. Show her all these neat things bring the best to her...your affection, tasty treats, some activity she loves to do. Increase this because it will fill up her mind and squeeze out those other behaviors. Make it so she has very little brain space left for nonsense. 

If she likes to take a walk and you're thinking about going out, wait for a behavior you like. You don't have to ask for all the behaviors you want. Wait and she'll sit and be calm. That's when you say, "wanna go for a walk?" Use those life rewards when an opportunity arises. If she's being obnoxious, don't say, "Let's go for a walk. You need it!" That's rewarding those icky behaviors. Wait for something you like.

Anyhow, I think you're doing great. Just thought I'd drop a few tips of my own that I've used with lots of dogs.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

PB, you're so generous with your wisdom. Thank you!!

Yes, we're still going to weekly classes. Our trainer actually did a 1-hour puppy play session the Saturday after Thanksgiving and Peggy (who only lasted 45 minutes before crashing lol) was the most docile angel for a full 48 hours after. It was amazing! So I think you're onto something with suggesting she get more vigorous physical exercise. 

I also agree I should adjust my response a bit, as she might not be getting the message clearly enough. This might be a situation that calls for negative punishment (I think that's the correct term?), as positive reinforcement seems to only be getting us so far. I will "remove the fun" the next time she behaves this way, rather than simply waiting for a good behaviour to reward. 

Right now, for example, if she starts demand barking and air snapping for the ball, I wait until the moment she offers up a quiet sit and then I throw the ball. That's great for normal play sessions, but I clearly need to raise the stakes when she gets pushy. We've been focusing so exclusively on positive reinforcement, I forget sometimes that there's a time and a place for other approaches.

So the next time she snaps at me, I'll walk away. Game over. She's such a clever poodle. I think she'll learn quickly if I can commit to this (and get my husband to do the same).

I do think she's been unintentionally over-indulged by us. Not "spoiled" in the typical sense, but we are so quick to reward her good behaviours, we might be missing some other learning opportunities. 

I've also seen my husband occasionally throw the ball while Peggy's barking, and she's no dummy. She makes note of that. He also tends to give her more attention when she's being a brat. I try to point out to him that when she greets him with a quiet sit and gets zero response, she's learning that jumping and biting and barking are the way to go. But gosh is it ever hard to get the whole household on the same page without nagging! I really sympathize with those who have children. Consistency would be extra EXTRA tough.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Annie was an angel puppy in a lot of ways - and she totally went through a "I'm gonna jump and eat you" phase at about 6 or 7 months. So yes - normal puppy behaviour, also very annoying and obnoxious puppy behaviour  

There was a phase where she'd get over excited playing soccer in the back yard, and would jump and nip or mouth. She even bruised me and drew blood on my upper arm! OK - that was the end of that game. After that I started insisting for a sit (with duration) for the whole time I had the ball. Not a sit near me - a sit way over there, even while I walk around with the ball. It helped a lot. Once that routine was established, it helped me, because if I needed a time-out for a moment to calm down the game - I just had to pick up the ball and we'd pause for a bit, and I was no longer worried about her nipping me. Does that make sense? Plus, she now has a really great "stay"; I used to keep her sitting while I walked around the shed/hid out of sight and came back.

Right now she's started getting super excited for our morning walks. "Helping me" put on my socks, barking, jumping on me. So we're starting 'Dog must sit and be quiet to get walks". She barks/jumps - I go away, put down my boots or whatever, and stop working on going for a walk. Try again in 30s to 1 min. it's a challenge, because we only have so much walk time in the morning, but I think it's definitely helping.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Six months is still very young for a poodle. Adjust your expectations for poodle perfect until age two or three. They are notoriously mouthy and absorb energy like sponges. They take some real finesse in training, because they are so darn smart. You’re on the right track, soldier on, and celebrate every success


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

PeggyTheParti said:


> PB, you're so generous with your wisdom. Thank you!!
> 
> Yes, we're still going to weekly classes. Our trainer actually did a 1-hour puppy play session the Saturday after Thanksgiving and Peggy (who only lasted 45 minutes before crashing lol) was the most docile angel for a full 48 hours after. It was amazing! So I think you're onto something with suggesting she get more vigorous physical exercise.
> 
> ...


She is indeed young still and it takes a couple 2-3 years for a lot of pups to get more civilized. She'll get there. Just enjoy her and do a little bit here and there every day. You're going to have a super poodle. She's already adorbs. :angel:


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## Moni (May 8, 2018)

Because you said that your mini never did this - mine does - and how! My beautiful little angel is a major bully - always has been (I think it is just part of his personality). I truly believe that just like in people dogs come with different levels of patience and Louie drew the very short stick there. Combined with his immense Poodle intelligence and his ability to read people - it is a constant challenge. I have said that in other posts before I think in a less experienced household he would quickly morph into an utter tyrant and problem dog - with me as his dog mom he just rolls his eyes a lot (like the bothered teenager he is). Just as I thought his now more advanced age (he is 1 1/2 now) would make him ease up on many things and we enjoyed a couple of very easy months he just now has upped the ante in the last few days checking and re-checking if a little bullying does not get him things faster...the curse of a smart dog! And always the house mantra "nothing in life is free" Not - a - thing - always! Btw #1 strategy when Louie is a brat (or sometimes I call him a douche) I turn around - which infuriates him - because "hey I am shouting at you here!". Ignoring him is the biggest punishment in my tool bag and is used a lot. You want to be a brat and bark in my face while I am trying to snap on your leash to go out? Ooops you lost going out and I am taking off my shoes, sitting down and turning on the TV - meanwhile Louie is freaking out that he lost his walk. When he calms down we will try again and I can guarantee he will sit like a statue while I fumble around with his leash...There is never a dull moment in our house...


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Really, thinking of dogs as brats is a bit on the over-anthropomorphizing habit we humans get into. When they are displaying unwanted (bratty) behaviors, we've inadvertently trained them to engage in. Or...they've not been trained not to display those types of behaviors in lieu of capturing wanted behaviors instead. It's really a matter of reinforcement. They're reinforced for behaviors so they develop, continue or escalate. They're either reinforced by us, sometimes inadvertently OR...they're self reinforced and we're not, A) preventing by setting up an alternative and B) we're not paying attention to our teaching methods. It's entirely normal and common, even for professional trainers to let things slip by un-noticed until the behavior is in full bloom. So then we have to analyze what has been going on and what steps we need to dissuade the behavior. (Look up the Premack principle in dog training.)

I don't believe that dogs are brats but of course, most of us, myself included will refer to them that way because we're looking at it from a human standpoint, human values, human morals etc. So it's important though, to see that the "bratty" behaviors are really something we've failed to extinguish or we've inadvertently reinforced...trained right in. The dog is simply learning right on schedule by way of the laws of learning behavior.

I agree with Kathy Sdao, a highly educated and experienced applied animal behaviorist I admire so much. I have come to disagree with the old mantra, "nothing in life is free." I believe that it's stressful to a dog and owner...promotes an unnatural relationship of dictator-minion which is just not the relationship I think is what dogs and humans should be. I think, like some trainers do...that it is just another compulsive training tool. I've seen a shift in my own relationship with my dogs over time, though I have to be careful not to default back to some of that bossy nature I intrinsically possess. I'm still and always learning and evolving as we all are. Anyhow, I highly recommend this book:

https://www.dogwise.com/plenty-in-life-is-free-reflections-on-dogs-training-and-finding-grace/


I like, "please say please." 

I think this will help a lot:

https://grishastewart.com/say-please/


And last but not least...this is a terrific video clip:


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

PB - For what it's worth, I almost deleted the word "brat" and replaced it with "engaging in undesirable behaviour" ? I, too, think it's a slippery slope, attributing human motivations (good or bad) to dogs.

Edit: Okay, so we just had a classic scenario play out. Let me know if I'm reading this right:

My husband is stressed from work. He walks in the door and greets Peggy (who's in her x-pen) and she jumps up on the gate, rattling it loudly. His stress increases. He puts his hands on her and gently tries to push her down. Peggy's thinking YAY! YAY! YAY! MY HUMAN IS TOUCHING ME! TOUCH! TOUCH! TOUCH!

He's repeatedly telling her "DOWN" and it's either just noise to her because she's in a delighted frenzy or it's now being filed away as a command: "This behaviour = DOWN. Got it!"

My husband moves from stressed to angry. His tone gets more forceful and his body language changes. He is still (gently) pushing her down repeatedly. Now Peggy's jumping at his face with renewed vigou, trying to appease him.

I step in and say "You need to walk away" and he replies "I'll walk away when she gets down."

I try explaining why that's counterproductive, that taking away what she wants at the exact moment she offers up a desired behaviour is teaching her the wrong thing. But, by no fault of his own, his human brain is stuck on the idea that she's a person in a dogsuit. Walking away, to him, feels like giving up and accepting the "bad" behaviour.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Moni said:


> Because you said that your mini never did this - mine does - and how! My beautiful little angel is a major bully - always has been (I think it is just part of his personality). I truly believe that just like in people dogs come with different levels of patience and Louie drew the very short stick there. Combined with his immense Poodle intelligence and his ability to read people - it is a constant challenge. I have said that in other posts before I think in a less experienced household he would quickly morph into an utter tyrant and problem dog - with me as his dog mom he just rolls his eyes a lot (like the bothered teenager he is). Just as I thought his now more advanced age (he is 1 1/2 now) would make him ease up on many things and we enjoyed a couple of very easy months he just now has upped the ante in the last few days checking and re-checking if a little bullying does not get him things faster...the curse of a smart dog! And always the house mantra "nothing in life is free" Not - a - thing - always! Btw #1 strategy when Louie is a brat (or sometimes I call him a douche) I turn around - which infuriates him - because "hey I am shouting at you here!". Ignoring him is the biggest punishment in my tool bag and is used a lot. You want to be a brat and bark in my face while I am trying to snap on your leash to go out? Ooops you lost going out and I am taking off my shoes, sitting down and turning on the TV - meanwhile Louie is freaking out that he lost his walk. When he calms down we will try again and I can guarantee he will sit like a statue while I fumble around with his leash...There is never a dull moment in our house...


I think Louie sounds absolutely hilarious. Life must never be boring with him around! I also think we tend to get the dog we need, and clearly you and Louie are a great match.

I'm realizing now that my mini (she was half miniature poodle, a quarter miniature dachshund, and the rest = ??????) had an exceptional temperament. I think I may have taken too much credit for her behaviour! She really did live to please me, not in an excessively submissive way but with a true "I'm up for anything!" attitude and an incredible ability to adjust her energy to my needs. I used to lament the fact that she wasn't food motivated in her early years. But a dog that thrives on praise and a positive relationship with their handler is really such a gift.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

PeggyTheParti said:


> PB - For what it's worth, I almost deleted the word "brat" and replaced it with "engaging in undesirable behaviour" ? I, too, think it's a slippery slope, attributing human motivations (good or bad) to dogs.
> 
> Edit: Okay, so we just had a classic scenario play out. Let me know if I'm reading this right:
> 
> ...


You are exactly right. His words, if they're doing anything... are being paired with her wild behavior, not with what he intends. He needs to wait...do something else across the room, ignore her until she calms and gets down on all fours, then go pay attention to her. And when she's on all fours, behaving how you would like, that's NOT the time to walk away. That's punishing her nice behavior. I hope your husband gets on board with some of the science of behavior because without consistency, that's very confusing to the dog. Would he be interested in reading anything? You might encourage him to read one of my favorites...Culture Clash, by Jean Donaldson...short book, chalk full of good info. Good luck.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> PeggyTheParti said:
> 
> 
> > PB - For what it's worth, I almost deleted the word "brat" and replaced it with "engaging in undesirable behaviour" ? I, too, think it's a slippery slope, attributing human motivations (good or bad) to dogs.
> ...


Heated moments are definitely not the best times for me to launch into behaviour theory. He's very receptive to learning, but when emotions run high, a different part of his brain seems to kick in. Maybe when we're under stress, it's more comfortable to resort to familiar patterns. So that was my mistake.

We just had a good chat where I put it into more tangible terms: "Imagine we only gave Peggy cookies when she's barking or jumping on us?" And I think that clicked.

Looks like there's an audio version of The Culture Clash available, so I'll suggest it to him. He likes to listen to non-fiction while he works. Thank you for the recommendation! 

(Should note that he absolutely loves dogs and ADORES Peggy, but he's not a lifelong dog nerd like I am. So sometimes this stuff gets a little tiresome to him. And I totally get that. But I think even non-dog-nerds need to understand that we reap what we sow, and few things illustrate this quite so perfectly as puppyhood.)


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## Charlie's Person (Dec 9, 2018)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Oh yes! She has to learn that that behavior won't get her anything. I'd walk away...out of the room when she does any of those things. Close the door and wait till you hear her quiet down, come back out. Repeat as necessary. This back and forth should give her the picture. Additionally, when she sits or stands (your preference) and she does this calmly and quietly, jack pot her with something she loves, be it affection, a treat that you have in various high up places in little bowls so they're within easy reach. Show her what behavior works to her advantage and what behavior clearly does not. You're certainly on the right track for sure. I'd just make it a little more concise so there's no question. Make sure your husband and anyone who interacts with her does the same. Breaking it down:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. I found your comments useful too. My Spoo is really big and active (85 pounds) and sometimes when he is off leash outdoors and full of beans he rushes at me from behind and nips - hard! He is so agile that cuffing him is impossible. I fold my arms, turn my back and ignore him

Sent from my STV100-3 using Tapatalk


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Charlie's Person said:


> Thanks. I found your comments useful too. My Spoo is really big and active (85 pounds) and sometimes when he is off leash outdoors and full of beans he rushes at me from behind and nips - hard! He is so agile that cuffing him is impossible. I fold my arms, turn my back and ignore him
> 
> Sent from my STV100-3 using Tapatalk


What does "cuffing" mean?


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