# Poodle safety and castration



## Païllâsse (Jun 14, 2016)

Hi, 
Since I'm getting a standard male poodle I was considering the castration for several reasons.
First of all, I will spent part of my time in the French Alps, I have a chalet over there, and it is located very next to the major alpine national park in Europe. The property in also surrounding by many goat and cow herds guarded by what we call Patou (it is a kind of huge Pyrenean dog) and Saint Bernard (their birthplace covers the area between the two Saint Bernard passes across Switzerland, Val d'Aoste in Italy and this part of the French Alps). The Patou is very aggressive and protective and even attacks hikers getting too close from the cattle.
Indeed the area is full of wolves and those big dogs are used to protect the herds from any attacks. 
So keeping my dog safe is a priority, since the poodle could face many lethal situations.
If the dog flees because it smelled the scent of a sweet female calling for love :handkiss:, he might wether be killed by the wolves, the Patou, or by the rangers from the National Park since it hosts many endangered alpine species and that any intrusion of dogs in the area is strictly forbidden. Any dog is shot on sight If it tries to approach any animal such as the alpine ibex.
So according to your experience, is the poodle a breed that tend to escape easily? 
Does the castration change the behaviour or the appearance of the poodle?

If you think that a castration would be needed, and what is the best age to do it??
My neighbour lost his dog last month, and he discovered its body ripped off by a pack of wolves.....


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I would highly recommend neutering your dog (castration), especially after what you wrote. His behavior will not change, except for not marking as much and not running adter females in heat.

Before, neutering was done at six months, nowadays, vets recommend waiting until the dog is around 12-16 months old. It allows a better bone growth and general health.


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## Païllâsse (Jun 14, 2016)

Merci!! I appreciate your advices and comments. Although I know dogs fairly well, I never had a poodle before. The last dog that we owned when I was a kid was not neutered, but never showed any interest for female.... So it has never been an issue. A long time ago I had a bull terrier, but God, that was a nightmare, it was so stubborn that owning a dog was not a pleasure but a pain... 
It is for this reason that I decided after many researches to choose the poodle that seems much easier to live with


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Poodles tend to stick with their people. We call them Velcro dogs! That said, a rabbit or a deer could prove irresistible. I would have him neutered in that 1-1 1/2 year age range for the reasons Dechi mentioned. You avoid some annoying behaviors, like marking and have a dog that is less likely to be attacked by other dogs and vice versa. Not sure if that applies to wolves!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Also you need to know that if you neuter too early, your male dog will look more like a tall female than a male, structure wise. He won't develop his muscle mass as much and will grow taller.

Once, only once, I had a male dog neutered at six months. He was my first dog away from home, as an adult. It was more than 20 years ago. My dog was a boston terrier and his dad was a very muscular male. Because of early neutering, my dog ended up being taller, with long legs and not much muscle mass at all.

They need the testosterone to get their full physical potential, until they are fully grown.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

In the US, castration is very common and quite safe. Dogs seem to recover very quickly, and the biggest challenge is keeping them quiet while they finish healing, because they feel better and want to do to much activity. I do think it's best to wait until 12-18 months old if you can so that your dog can finish growing. 

Full disclosure, my dog is still intact at 2.5 years old and works off lead all the time (he is a retriever). I've had no issues with him roaming or running away, but he's my first poodle. The only downside to him being intact is that it seems to make him a target for neutered males. But, if I were in your situation I'd probably neuter him.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I would not let my dog go off leash in that situation at all. I'd keep him on a long line or some type of leash. This sounds very dangerous to me. Even the best trained dog, you can not be sure 100% of perfect reliability when faced with certain environmental stimuli that may compete with you. Some dogs might be very stick-to-their-owner types but they're not all that way. And some dogs have a more independent nature than others, even Poodles. Some have a stronger prey drive than others. Anyhow, if I were in your shoes, and there were people, dogs, wolves that would kill my dog if he ran into the midst of the protected animals, I don't care how well trained or how velcro a dog is, I, personally wouldn't let him run free in that situation. I let mine run free when I lived in a wilderness area on our hikes. They were very explicitly obedient. But there was still a small risk that a bear could happen along. But I took that risk. In 10 years that I lived there, nothing happened much. (a deer stocked us and that was scary, but otherwise, nothing terrible) But in your case it sounds like there are more likely things that could go terribly wrong...more stackd against you. And yes, neutering might help. But I'd wait until full grown.


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## Païllâsse (Jun 14, 2016)

Mfmst said:


> Poodles tend to stick with their people. We call them Velcro dogs! That said, a rabbit or a deer could prove irresistible. I would have him neutered in that 1-1 1/2 year age range for the reasons Dechi mentioned. You avoid some annoying behaviors, like marking and have a dog that is less likely to be attacked by other dogs and vice versa. Not sure if that applies to wolves!


Well the wolves are attacking them to eat, or just to kill them because they consider them as competitors on their territory. I am considering to neuter him to avoid any escapes because of females or to decrease his predatory instinct


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I would not let that dog out of my site, in that environment and yes I would neuter him. Most likely he could compete with the dogs you speak of.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

I had Asta neutered at 1 1/2 yrs.old. It was an easy operation and he recovered very speedily. He stopped his running away behavior and now sticks to us like velcro. Also no problems with marking etc. Just my opinion but if you are not going to breed the dog, he should be neutered.

--Claire and Asta


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

> (a deer _*stocked*_ us and that was scary,


Was just zipping through the posts again, looking at the most recent and I skimmed my own. LOL. Since English may not be your native language, I just couldn't leave that mistake there. LOL. OMG! "stocked" is like we've got the shelves in the store stocked. A lot of livestock is sometimes called stock. The base broth, like boiled bones for soup is called "stock." But an animal or human following you relentlessly is "stalk." The deer "stalked" me. I don't know why my fingers just typed the wrong form of_ stocked_ when I know better. hahaha. 

Anyhow, don't count on neutering to stop your dog from running to see what all those interesting animals are about. You might find yourself being _stalked. _ :afraid:


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Castrating should remove sex-hormone related behaviours, like seeking females in heat; it won't change predatory behaviour, to the best of my knowledge. I would consider a long line and a GPS tracking collar in such a potentially hazardous environment, and do lots and lots of training around livestock if you can find a sympathetic farmer. How do others cope? Are there safely fenced areas where dogs can run and play?


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## Païllâsse (Jun 14, 2016)

fjm said:


> Castrating should remove sex-hormone related behaviours, like seeking females in heat; it won't change predatory behaviour, to the best of my knowledge. I would consider a long line and a GPS tracking collar in such a potentially hazardous environment, and do lots and lots of training around livestock if you can find a sympathetic farmer. How do others cope? Are there safely fenced areas where dogs can run and play?


Hey fellow europeen, don't forget to vote according to your own conviction today !!
I thought about fencing my property, but as I built my house in a protected area, I have to follow strict architectural rules, as a roof made of stones. And here the issue is that the fences are forbidden around any property. The only thing that is allowed is a small wall of 1 feet high made of stones around the house, so nothing that can prevent a dog to escape....:angry:


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

We have "invisible" fences here. You can Google the term and see how they work. Your dog wears a collar with a battery and if he crosses the line buried along your property perimeter he receives a mild shock or a warning sound. Given the dangers of your chalet setting, I would consider that along with a lot of obedience training.


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

I agree with poodlebeguiled. In the situation you've described, I'd never let my dogs off lead. As fjm says, neutering doesn't reduce predatory behavior. Both my dogs, a spayed female and a neutered male, have a very strong prey drive, and while their recall is good, a small running animal will almost always override any command from me. They're just hard-wired to chase prey.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I too would not let my dogs off leash under those circumstances. Use a long line if you want him to have some degree of freedom.

I also would recommend waiting until skeletal maturity to neuter. This is why Javelin still has all his boy bits.


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## Païllâsse (Jun 14, 2016)

Thanks for all your goods advices!!! I will meet the puppy in few hours now!! 
Is there special things that I should look after when I meet the puppies to adopt the best mate? 
And at four mints old can he go for long walks or to I have to prevent any long distance to save is joints??


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Tiny Poodles has a useful test for puppies. After they are over the initial excitement, hold him on his back and see if he can relax for a few seconds, belly up. The last thing you want is a nervous, high anxiety puppy. The breeder should know the puppies very well, and if you explain that you have a cat, she can help you decide. 

I tried to keep Buck from leaping and hard landings. Jogging long distances with a young Poodle has been discouraged. I'm not a runner, so non-issue for me.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

General rule of thumb is 5 mins of forced exercise (such as walks) per month old. So a 4 month old would roughly do 20 mins of on leash walks. They can play off leash for as long as they want to.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

As Mysticrealm says, 5 minutes per month of age, twice a day is the rule of thumb for on leash exercise, and the usual advice is to avoid anything that would stress developing joints - forced jogging on hard surfaces, jumping at heights, too many stairs and steps, mountaineering, etc, etc. Running around off leash on varied and uneven surfaces, where the puppy decides when to start and when to stop and how far and fast to go can be practically unlimited!

When choosing a puppy I do similar tests to the ones TP has described. Is the puppy happy to approach me (pups that hold back from greeting strangers tend to shyness). Which pups play happily? If an object is dropped, making a small, sharp noise, which pups recover quickly? Which puppy is happy to settle in your arms (assuming no major distractions) and to have its tummy tickled? Try not to be swayed too much by looks - but in the end the puppy that says to your heart "I am YOURS!" may be the right one to take home, as long as he or she is healthy. If you feel a strong, immediate bond it can help you overcome even quite significant puppy raising problems!


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## Endlessummer (Jun 4, 2016)

At the risk of being excommunicated from this forum, I have a different opinion regarding castration. My Standard Poodle had health problems from the time he was a young dog. Our vet is a highly acclaimed homeopathic vet and an amazing doctor. He is also a human doctor. He told me that if I wanted to keep my dog healthy I should do the following:
1) not castrate him unless he began to exhibit unacceptable behavior (which he never did).
2) Give him spring water only.
3) Feed him the BARF diet.
4) Do not immunize him.

I know.. I know I told you my story would be unpopular, but it's true. I had to put my dog to sleep today. He lived to be 11.5 years old. I believe that he lived as long as he did because I followed this doctor's advice. I devoted my life to this dog, and I realize that not everyone can, or wants to do that. But it was a commitment that I made, and I was faithful till the end.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

I don't think that you can claim that doing/not doing the things you mentioned is why your dog lived to 11.5 years old. One of my dogs (family dog we had since I was 12 years old) is currently 16.5 years old and he was 
1. Neutered at an early age. Not sure when but around 6 months would be my guess
2. Got tap water for half his life and filtered tap water for half his life
3. Fed kibble his whole life and probably not very good kibble for the first half of his life
4. Was immunized on a very old school yearly vaccine schedule. 
Just because he is 16.5 years old doesn't mean that I made him live that long by doing what I did. And he has been extremely well cared for throughout his entire life. We just spent over 1500 dollars on him in various vet bills over the past 3-4 months (teeth cleaning, he got aspiration pneumonia so got X-rays and blood work done and antibiotics etc.) even though he's 16.5 years old.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

I can't figure out how to edit on the mobile site but my point in saying what we spent in vet bills was to point out that we are committed to this dog and are willing to do everything for him like most pet owners are.


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## Endlessummer (Jun 4, 2016)

Mysticrealm said:


> I don't think that you can claim that doing/not doing the things you mentioned is why your dog lived to 11.5 years old. One of my dogs (family dog we had since I was 12 years old) is currently 16.5 years old and he was
> 1. Neutered at an early age. Not sure when but around 6 months would be my guess
> 2. Got tap water for half his life and filtered tap water for half his life
> 3. Fed kibble his whole life and probably not very good kibble for the first half of his life
> ...


I apologize if I didn't make myself clear in my post. My dog had health issues from a very early age. I think (although it wasn't diagnosed) he had Addison's Disease most of his life. 
In (I think) my first post on this website I mentioned that it would be a good thing to do through research when looking for a healthy dog. Spend what you need to spend to get the best dog you can find. I was trying to save a little money and bought a Poodle from a backyard breeder. We lived his entire life paying for that decision. I don't regret it for a minute, but would do things differently the next time.
You were blessed to have ended up with the dog you did. I sure hope I am the next time!


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Endlessummer said:


> At the risk of being excommunicated from this forum, I have a different opinion regarding castration. My Standard Poodle had health problems from the time he was a young dog. Our vet is a highly acclaimed homeopathic vet and an amazing doctor. He is also a human doctor. He told me that if I wanted to keep my dog healthy I should do the following:
> 1) not castrate him unless he began to exhibit unacceptable behavior (which he never did).
> 2) Give him spring water only.
> 3) Feed him the BARF diet.
> ...


Endlessummer,

I am so very very sorry to hear that you lost your dear companion today. Many of us know first hand how difficult that decision is to make. You gave him a good life and obviously did everything you could to make sure he was well taken care of.

My condolences on you loss. Viking Queen


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Endlessummer, those things won't get you excommunicated from this forum . Thank you for offering them. I wish I had access to this doctor myself!


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