# Dementia



## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

We recently lost an 18-year-old tabby who was suffering from dementia. He had many of the same symptoms.
His age, the blank stares and incessant crying were the ones that our vet used to diagnose dementia. 

He had happy moments in his last years but the quality of his life was not good. I wish that the vet had given an earlier diagnosis. 

I wish that I could be more upbeat, but this is a difficult situation. We're here to listen and sympathize.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

This reminds me of my grandmother, who had Alzheimer's. She spent her last few years alone and afraid, and my mother suffered right along with her.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Make a video of it, it always helps. You can show your vet and see progression, if any.

I hope it’s not dementia. Did the vet see her for the pain you were talking about in your other post ?


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I've got more experience with dementia in people than in animals. A common thread is losing the understanding of what is going on in the world around them. The reactions I've seen range from fear and distress to anger and aggression. I expect animals experience the same confusion and have the same range of reactions.

Ive seen different strategies help bring comfort to the sufferers. One is to try to keep the routine as consistent as possible, and give the person small tasks they would have performed when they were still functional. For example, one woman I knew had been a successful restaurant owner. She found it comforting to sort a jar of coins and bundle them up into coin rolls. Counting up the nightly receipts and preparing the bank deposit had been important when she ran the restaurant, so this small money sorting task was something she found meaningful even as her mind eroded. 

Perhaps you can find a doggie equivalent to coin sorting, some task or trick she still remembers and finds rewarding. It might help her feel a little more in control of her confusion.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I am sure you will find it if you are googling, but there is much helpful personal experience here: Dog Dementia: Help and Support


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## HannahMarieJ (Jun 23, 2020)

Our toy poodle who passed away earlier this year suffered from dog dementia and had some of the same symptoms you're describing. Mostly, he had trouble settling at night and would wake up in the middle of the night crying like he didn't know where he was. He also would come to the wrong side of the sliding glass door to come inside, or walk off the patio in places that didn't make sense.

In coordination with our vet, we put him on a nightly dose of gabapentin which seemed to help. It has some mild sedative qualities that helped him stay asleep but it also has some neurological effects that I think helped. We also put a small night light near his bed so he could see easier when he did wake up (while he wasn't blind, he did suffer from some loss of his night vision).

So I would recommend talking through possible dementia with your vet (or seek a second opinion) and seeing what support they can recommend


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

Dechi said:


> Make a video of it, it always help. You can show your vet and see progression, if any.
> 
> I hope it’s not dementia. Did the vet see her for the pain you were talking about in your other post ?


Hello Liz,
Yes the vet did see her and seemed certain that she was not in pain. I didn’t discuss the possibility of dementia with him at the time. Honestly, I hadn’t considered it till yesterday. I need to learn more and find a vet that shows real concern. A daunting task where I live.


HannahMarieJ said:


> Our toy poodle who passed away earlier this year suffered from dog dementia and had some of the same symptoms you're describing. Mostly, he had trouble settling at night and would wake up in the middle of the night crying like he didn't know where he was. He also would come to the wrong side of the sliding glass door to come inside, or walk off the patio in places that didn't make sense.
> 
> In coordination with our vet, we put him on a nightly dose of gabapentin which seemed to help. It has some mild sedative qualities that helped him stay asleep but it also has some neurological effects that I think helped. We also put a small night light near his bed so he could see easier when he did wake up (while he wasn't blind, he did suffer from some loss of his night vision).
> 
> So I would recommend talking through possible dementia with your vet (or seek a second opinion) and seeing what support they can recommend


thank you so much!
She does have a night light which I hadn’t considered helpful till now. She is much more restless at night. Of late she gets up and moves from one spot to another a few times a night. And then I have to quiet her to calm her. She will go back to sleep fairly quickly though. I notice too she sometimes just lays there with her eyes open. At first I thought she was in pain but a recent vet visit has ruled that out. One curious thing about all this is I believe this has been going on to a lesser degree for several years. Even at 5 years old she used to disappear into the farthest reaches of the backyard and just be sitting stiffly upright staring, almost frozen. And I’d have to go get her. She would not respond to my calls. Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

Her symptoms have taken an odd turn. This morning she had diarrhea and blood in her stool. I talked to her vet and he seemed most concerned that she was eating and drinking normally which she has. At this point she is to be seen again in the morning. I don’t like being put off when there’s blood in her stool. Likely the vet will do a full blood panel. My poor girl


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

jcris said:


> Her symptoms have taken an odd turn. This morning she had diarrhea and blood in her stool. I talked to her vet and he seemed most concerned that she was eating and drinking normally which she has. At this point she is to be seen again in the morning. I don’t like being put off when there’s blood in her stool. Likely the vet will do a full blood panel. My poor girl


When we moved, Fluffy had stress colitis resulting in blood dripping when he pooped (freaking us all out in the process). Perhaps it could be due to the stress? Poor girl.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I'm sorry it's such a struggle with your vet.  You know your girl best. 

I'm glad they're going to do bloodwork. I'd still push for x-rays. 

My last girl declined cognitively in her last year. The most obvious behaviour change was peeing and pooping in the house. Sometimes a poop would just drop from her bum and startle her. That was stressful for her and us, too.

Since she was a puppy, she always lay next to the bathtub while I soaked (sometimes a couple of hours a day). This was a safe, comforting routine for her, and as she declined further, I would find her in the bathroom, laying next to the tub. I was always very gentle about it, but it would nevertheless startle her when I entered the bathroom, as she seemed to think I was in the bath.

This is all very hard to type. It was not easy to watch, but I did everything I could to maintain her routine and provide as much comfort as possible. We finally put her on Anipryl, though I'm not sure it made much of a difference. 

She did not do any yelping as you and others have described. More than anything, it seemed she was retreating further within herself.

Sending love to Belle. Good luck at the vet.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

FloofyPoodle said:


> When we moved, Fluffy had stress colitis resulting in blood dripping when he pooped (freaking us all out in the process). Perhaps it could be due to the stress? Poor girl.


I’ve wondered the same thing. She has always been a very sensitive little girl. Yesterday she seemed completely normal. It’s so frustrating to figure this out. So scary to see bloody stool. She has not pooped again since yesterday afternoon. When I get home from work I’ll take her out and see, if she poops how it looks. If there’s no blood I’m inclined to wait on more tests.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

jcris said:


> I’ve wondered the same thing. She has always been a very sensitive little girl. Yesterday she seemed completely normal. It’s so frustrating to figure this out. So scary to see bloody stool. She has not pooped again since yesterday afternoon. When I get home from work I’ll take her out and see, if she poops how it looks. If there’s no blood I’m inclined to wait on more tests.


I should also mention I stopped giving the prednisone. I looked at possible side effects of which increased appetite and thirst were the most common. She has demonstrated both and at the same time her energy level has definitely increased. Which I’ve seen from her , while taking prednisone each time she has been given the steroid. So that seems normal. She did sleep through the night so that is also a good sign. I can’t thank this group enough for helping me and my girls through these difficult situations


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

Liz said:


> This reminds me of my grandmother, who had Alzheimer's. She spent her last few years alone and afraid, and my mother suffered right along with her.


So sorry to read that. I care for an elderly gentleman who has dementia and it is so very disheartening to see his decline. It gives me perspective on this fragile life. I hope you are safe and in these very troubling times


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

My poor girl Belle has been struggling to rest all evening. She lays on her bed and just stares, a blank look on her face. Then up to sit by the front door or off down the hall. She sits with her back to the wall panting. Unable to settle.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Im sorry, jcris. Can the vet give her something to help her sleep? Perhaps for the night you could give her a benadryl, just make sure its an appropriate dose.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Panting indicates pain. Did you ever get a diagnosis ? Are you planning to see the vet ?


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

Good morning,
I thought about Benadryl but didn’t use it. I’ll see what my vet has to say. I’m going to use the morning to see what else I can figure out. Both my girls are having issues and I’m having trouble dealing with it. Sorry to say
Thank you


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

I’m not sure at this point how advanced this may be. In the last week though she has been much more unsettled. I’m going to get her in to see the vet soon. I don’t want her to be in pain.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

It sounds like pain or discomfort to me - the sort of don't-know-what-to-do-with-myself state Poppy was in back in January. Did she have blood tests as well as an examination? It is so difficult if you don't feel you can completely trust your vet; perhaps it's time to seek a second opinion.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

jcris said:


> Good morning,
> I thought about Benadryl but didn’t use it. I’ll see what my vet has to say. I’m going to use the morning to see what else I can figure out. Both my girls are having issues and I’m having trouble dealing with it. Sorry to say
> Thank you


If both of your dogs are having issues you might consider whether there is some household product that has been used recently that is affecting them. Like toddlers, dogs are close to the floor and are more likely to be affected by household chemicals.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

Thanks fjm,
A second opinion is a good idea. Problem is I live in a small town where I’ve taken both my spoo’s to both available vets with similar results. If she sees the same vet consistently I feel that gives the vet a better chance to assess her condition. So I’ve begun doing just that. Unfortunately covid protocols are interfering with office visits so I just don’t get the chance to watch the exam and comment. If I find a vet from out of town she is still in a learning curve with the new vet. I’m venting a bit here and do apologize. I want to help my girls but feel hamstrung. I’m actively looking for a vet within a reasonable distance but have to rely on friends for their experience and suggestions. Interestingly everyone in town raves about one of the local vets but my experience hasn’t been so great. I’m going to 
continue seeing the same vet until I get something else figured out.
Johanna, 
That’s a good thought also.


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## Michigan Gal (Jun 4, 2019)

Because they can't tell you, it can be hard to distinguish dementia from just old age. I have had cataracts and you get little floaty things that look like dust in the air. If your dog has cataracts she may be seeing things that aren't there. When they loose their eyesight it will be gradual. You will find your dog being a little more cautious. When they loose their eyesight they are also loosing their hearing, so you'll find the recall works only close and closer to you and he or she does not listen as well because they can't hear you.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

Today I saw Belle acting very strange. I gave her a bath and trim during which she was her fidgety self. Bath, dry and brush out. Then a trim. Took about an hour and a half total. As a treat for being good I offered her some snacks and she would not touch them. And she was shaking and seemed unbalanced. Really scared me. I think it really stressed her doing the bath and such. Poor girl has really been struggling lately. These days it seems her dementia episodes are becoming more regular. I’m still undecided what to do for her


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

1/2 hour later and she is still struggling


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I'm sorry to hear this.  

Has your vet done an x-ray to rule out anything that might be causing pain? Grooming is certainly hard on a dog that is in pain. I would groom Gracie in very short sessions, sometimes just a few minutes at a time.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

I wondered about grooming her today. She had an episode last night where she appeared frightened and then just say right in front of the tv not really watching just lost. Then she came and sat by me and I just petted her until she laid down 30 minutes later. Very unusual for her. I’ve not yet had her xrays or blood work as my other spoo Princess has been to the vet on and off for the last couple weeks. She needs blood work also to diagnose issues she’s having. I love my girls but they have been a challenge lately.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

All of these episodes could be explained by pain or dementia....or possibly both. I'm sorry.  I keep hoping you'll make some progress towards a diagnosis. It must be so very hard juggling the health concerns of two dogs at once.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

I appreciate your concern. I’m hesitant because I’ve lost faith in the vet.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

Just sitting she wobbles like she can’t balance. She walks and moves very unsteady.


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

jcris said:


> Just sitting she wobbles like she can’t balance. She walks and moves very unsteady.


I’m going to be a bit blunt here, but I think you need to take her to a vet outside your area ASAP if your vet is not responding, even if they are not familiar with her. Look up reviews, and pick the best one. A delay could mean a world of difference.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

I decided I wanted her seen while she was struggling. By a flat out miracle I was able to get her in today. The vet did several things 
Blood pressure normal 
Blood sugar normal 
Ran full blood panel results in the morning 
And administered fluids to be sure she wasn’t dehydrated. Vets thinks it’s neurological. Need results tomorrow and we go from there. That was $400. An MRI is $1500. Btw the blood pressure was $66. Why so much for a test that doesn’t take special equipment and takes a minute. Sorry just frustrated


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

She’s sleeping finally. I hope she’s better oriented when she wakes up


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

If you haven’t videoed her, you should. Seeing the actual problem can be a powerful tool for a vet and could save you lots of time and money. Nothing to lose.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Weird question do you have a gas stove or gas heat in your home?
A slow carbon monoxide leak can cause weird behaviors


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

No suggestions, just hugs. Sorry you are both going through this.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

The best thing about her visit to the vet was she showed all her symptoms. The doctor saw exactly what I was trying to describe. 
I wondered about some kind of poison. No gas at all. She has begun licking her urethra. Urinalysis? When Princess had hers recently it really wore her out. 
thanks everyone for helping me keep an eye on my Belle


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

She is still struggling. Resting more but unsettled. She keeps licking herself. Is there anything I can apply topically that may help? She hasn’t eaten or drank. I walked out front to see if she might pee and was so unstable I carried her back in. Im still thinking poison. They were in the park this morning off leash. They chew on eucalyptus twigs. They don’t swallow much if any just break it up. They both do it and Princess is fine


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

Just noticed she wet her bed. The vet gave her subcutaneous fluids. My poor girl


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

She just got up, walked to her water bowl and had a drink. Not completely steady but better. Two good signs.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Keeping you all in my thoughts.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

This morning my sweet Belle seems much better. No more unsteady walk. She ate normally this morning And she yipped at me to let her out. She ran down the steps and proceeded to poop. From what I see after a very long day she appears to be back to normal. The challenge now is to figure out what happened. I will speak with her vet this morning about blood work and go from there. 
thanks everyone


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

Blood work was normal except an elevated potassium level. Slightly out of normal range at 5.7. Vet suggested follow up in a week to check electrolytes. No real discussion about what may be going on. I’m inclined at this point to begin searching for another vet. It will be out of town and require perhaps an hour and a half travel to get there but after this last episode I hope well worth it. UC Davis has a school in Northern California with a good reputation that I’m looking in to. Anyone here have a suggestion? Santa Rosa , Sacramento and Davis are all a couple hours away and would be considered. Ideas?
Thanks


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

I think, if your vet is stumped, going to a vet school may be a good idea, as they are looking for unique cases to show to the students, and won't gloss over the finer details. Here's to hopefully getting some answers 🤞


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I think that sounds like a good idea. Our vet isn't perfect, but she'd be taking the symptoms you've described very seriously. 

Have you ruled out any toxic elements in or around your home? Pesticides/herbicides, essential oils, floor cleaners, etc.?


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I think that sounds like a good idea. Our vet isn't perfect, but she'd be taking the symptoms you've described very seriously.
> 
> Have you ruled out any toxic elements in or around your home? Pesticides/herbicides, essential oils, floor cleaners, etc.?


I watch them very closely. But honestly don’t think it’s a toxic element. They do once in awhile get at something I don’t see while off leash. Nothing chemical that I can think of though.


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## Phoebe’sMom (Mar 15, 2020)

jcris said:


> They chew on eucalyptus twigs. They don’t swallow much if any just break it up. They both do it and Princess is fine


Eucalyptus has been known to be toxic to dogs, maybe this is something to ask the vet about? I did a quick search and it has been known to cause some necrological problems in several cases in dogs. Sending hugs!


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

Phoebe’sMom said:


> Eucalyptus has been known to be toxic to dogs, maybe this is something to ask the vet about? I did a quick search and it has been known to cause some necrological problems in several cases in dogs. Sending hugs!


Thanks phoebes mom, 
I have asked and the response has been as long as they don’t swallow it they should be ok. It’s a good point though. I’ll have to eliminate that part of their off leash activities.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

jcris said:


> Thanks phoebes mom,
> I have asked and the response has been as long as they don’t swallow it they should be ok. It’s a good point though. I’ll have to eliminate that part of their off leash activities.


Maybe this is a mistake but I always compare how the girls are acting whenever an issue comes up. The day I noticed Belle having problems they both spent time in the park chewing on eucalyptus twigs.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

Hello, Belle goes back to the vet again this morning. This is a follow up due to an elevated potassium level. Going to get an electrolyte check to see if the level remains high. Also going to have the vet express her glands again. She had this done a couple weeks ago at which time she had a fair amount of what I would describe as cottage cheese like discharge. The vet didn’t comment at all. So I’m going to have him do it again while I watch. Her bum is very sensitive to touch. She twitches at the slightest touch I’m not sure what is going on. She is agitated at night and has a hard time settling down. I think her glands may be impacted or perhaps need more regular expression. I tried to do this several times but wasn’t successful, no discharge at all. I’m getting very frustrated with this whole scenario. Sorry about the long rant


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

Well after all these tests and stressing her nothing has been resolved. The vet says she’s fine and that I shouldn’t worry so much. I’ve insisted they are seeing enough but it’s left to me to find a way to help her. These vets would test her 9 ways to Sunday without really listening to what I’m saying about her. I’m done with these so called doctors. My poor girl lays there at night with her eyes wide open trying to sleep. She moves from spot to spot trying to get comfortable but apparently can’t. She gets up in the middle of the night and sits by the front door like she has to go out. I take her out and she does nothing. When she comes back in she goes through the same routine. She will eventually settle, probably from exhaustion and close her eyes. I know there’s no cure for dementia, if in fact that is what she has, but I just want some relief for her. I’ve put my other spoo Princess issues on hold so I can devote time and money to Belle. Once again I rant and apologize to the group


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I have been watching this discussion with interest since we also have two senior dogs (Lily turned 12 in September and Peeves 12th birthday was yesterday). We have senior health issues such as Peeves having prostatitis and some intermittent urinary incontinence. Sometimes Lily will choose not to eat for a day. We are very mindful for signs of chronic and life quality health issues. I know your girls are your world, but if I were you I would be thinking about quality of life vs. number of days at this point were I in your situation (and some days I feel I am, poor old man Peeves has emptied his bladder in the house 3 times since 8:00 AM, good thing our floors are not carpeted).


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I really feel for you - Poppy occasionally has nights like that and I feel so helpless, despite knowing the underlying cause in her case. I would try the University if you possibly can. Canine Cognitive Decline is diagnosed mainly by ruling out all the other possible causes of the observed behaviours, but it sounds as if your vets are not taking your observations seriously, so may not even be considering it.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

Lilly


lily cd re said:


> I have been watching this discussion with interest since we also have two senior dogs (Lily turned 12 in September and Peeves 12th birthday was yesterday). We have senior health issues such as Peeves having prostatitis and some intermittent urinary incontinence. Sometimes Lily will choose not to eat for a day. We are very mindful for signs of chronic and life quality health issues. I know your girls are your world, but if I were you I would be thinking about quality of life vs. number of days at this point were I in your situation (and some days I feel I am, poor old man Peeves has emptied his bladder in the house 3 times since 8:00 AM, good thing our floors are not carpeted).


I have thought about quality of life especially with my Belle. She still enjoys being out and off leash. She still has an excellent appetite and drinks well. I guess what I’m trying to say is I don’t believe she is ready yet. I’m vigilant and notice even small changes. Recently noticed she has some balance issues, just not as steady. When she picks her head up to look around while she’s laying down her head is slightly unsteady. That is a distressing change and perhaps an acceleration of her issues, but I’m not sure.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

fjm said:


> I really feel for you - Poppy occasionally has nights like that and I feel so helpless, despite knowing the underlying cause in her case. I would try the University if you possibly can. Canine Cognitive Decline is diagnosed mainly by ruling out all the other possible causes of the observed behaviours, but it sounds as if your vets are not taking your observations seriously, so may not even be considering it.
> [/QUOTE
> On her last vet visit she showed all the symptoms I was talking about and her vets only comment, “ it may be neurological “ Nothing further.
> The university remains a goal


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

I also meant to add,
Belle has had the CCD issues more consistently lately. Each night for the past three days she shows signs. I comfort her as best I can. She usually sits very close to me pressing herself into me and I gently scratch her ears. That seems to soothe her a little bit


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

jcris, you are there and I am not. I think you will know when it is her time even though it will be hard. I also know the difficulty in the decision making sometimes makes us wait longer than we should because we don't want these things to be our decisions.


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