# Looking for Black Standard w/ low COI



## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Desert Reef Poodles - home

I got my black from Karen at Desert Reef Standard Poodles, a planned litter is between one of her blues and small black females. I'd highly reccomend contacting her, she is in southern Utah.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Hi what part of so cal do you live ? you should come join me and my sister at this dog show 

Jack Bradshaw - Dog Show Superintendents

Karen @ Desert reef is a very good breeder here are a few more that I know :
Chris [email protected] Jaset poodles ( i have her phone number PM if you would like it) 
Peggy Mcdill @ espree show dogs


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Oh, right, I've met Chris from Jaset, she does have really amazing poodles too. Karen has some Jaset poodles in some of her lines.


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## sonno23 (Sep 19, 2010)

Hi Roxy,

We're in Santa Monica. I'd love to come w/ you. We're going back east right around then and don't know quite when yet. I'll stay in touch if we're here then.

Thanks for the suggestions!


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

If LA area is not too far, than you might want to check Avion and Cabernet Poodles if you want something "out of this world" pretty : ))) !!!! 

I wish you the best of luck in your search


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## sonno23 (Sep 19, 2010)

I've been talking to Karen from Desert Reef. I like that she talks about how the puppies are raised, what tests she does and the COI (which I know is not the end all but I figure it's a tool).

The other breeders mentioned look to have beautiful dogs but don't say anything except general comments about temperament and health and beautiful pix and comments.

When I've been looking, I've passed on those breeders since health and temperament are more important than looks to me, although looks are important too.

Are there things about the other breeders that you know that they aren't saying that would make you recommend them as breeders dedicated to strengthening the breed?

I'm new at this and I don't have much to go on except what I've read. YOu know, a little knowledge.......

Thanks!


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## poodleholic (Jan 6, 2010)

Clear across the country, but meets everything on your list, and thensome:

Aris black Standard Poodles Florida North Carolina USA

PS the Poodle in the picture is an Aris Poodle.


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## sonno23 (Sep 19, 2010)

Hi Poodleholic (love the name),

Thanks for sending me the link. Those are beautiful dogs but they don't talk about how they raise their pups or the particular things they do regarding healthy breeding. I"m wondering why these breeders don't say anything about that. Raised at home, early neurological training, low COI?

If they're looking to breed out of their line( or whatever it's called-I"m up in the middle of the night for me) I'd think they'd have that all written on their site. Am I missing something?

Thanks!


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## Vibrant (Dec 7, 2009)

Tudorose in Oregon. Jac Harbour has been breeding for many, many years and is a tremendously honest breeder. She breeds for poodles that can work and is very conscientious about health (that is why her health issues are revealed on PHR....what you see is what you get...nothing hidden) My friend has two Tudorose poodles (on the Tudorose website under The Royal Herald, and Versatility herding)....Rook is a very talented girl with a lovely temperament.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

RE early neurological stimulation.......

I get the sense that early neurological stimulation was originally developed to use on kennel bred working dogs that typically were not handled a lot as very young puppies. Most good show/performance breeders are handling their newborn puppies multiple times a day (I know that I actually air stack the poor things because I'm trying to get a sense of innate structure). I don't see then that a formal system of early neurological stimulation has much more value.

Frankly I often see mention of early neurological stimulation on web sites of breeders who don't do much with their dogs in way of show/performance. I'm always left thinking...... that's great that you do early neurological stimulation on a three day old puppy. How about doing a little late neurological stimulation by getting out and working your 3 yr old bitch. hwell:


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

cbrand said:


> RE early neurological stimulation.......
> 
> Frankly I often see mention of early neurological stimulation on web sites of breeders who don't do much with their dogs in way of show/performance. I'm always left thinking...... that's great that you do early neurological stimulation on a three day old puppy. How about doing a little late neurological stimulation by getting out and working your 3 yr old bitch. hwell:


LMAO at that last comment, but it is true. I have also found that breeders who work their dogs in performance are more articulate about the nuances of temperament, and include temperament in their discussion of why they chose a particular stud for a bitch.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

sonno23 said:


> Are there things about the other breeders that you know that they aren't saying that would make you recommend them as breeders dedicated to strengthening the breed?
> 
> I'm new at this and I don't have much to go on except what I've read. YOu know, a little knowledge.......
> 
> Thanks!



First of all Chris has not updated her website since 2004 or so when I fiirst met her. She is very busy alot of breeders have websites and do not add a lot since they are busy. I have met at least 7 of her dogs VERY good temperaments. She has a special right now named London AKA Jaset satisfaction He has 9 BIS can see more of him here 

?MBIS Am Ch Jaset's Satisfaction "London" | Facebook?

Chris is very dedicated to the breed and is super nice she is friends with Karen from desert reef. As I always like to say Birds of a Feather flock together  I have also met one of Karens /Noriko's dogs He was really a nice dog.

If you live in Santa Monica My friend lives there she has a black standard poodle named Argon. She is working on Chris's new website so hopefully it will be done soon. Both are busy so who knows how long it will take lol.

Peggy has been breeding for over 35 years I believe, her dogs are excellent. I have met many of her dogs in person and they also have great temperament. I will probbaly see one of two at that show. She is also a member of the So cal poodle club in good standing. She is so nice also.

Some breeder do not post health results on OFA so you would need to call them and ask for records. I would never recommend any of these if I thought they where not reputable. 

Avion is very close to and she has some lovely dogs. I never seen her dogs in person nor have I met her so you would have to talk to her and see what her breeding program is about. My new puppy has some of her dogs in her bloodline


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## sonno23 (Sep 19, 2010)

"I get the sense that early neurological stimulation was originally developed to use on kennel bred working dogs that typically were not handled a lot as very young puppies. "

This is very important information for someone like me to see cbrand. Thank you!


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## sonno23 (Sep 19, 2010)

Boy, you think you're looking for something and you really don't know what you're looking for it turns out.

Thanks Roxy, for opening up the the discussion in my head. As though I needed MORE discussion going on in there. lol no but I see there's always more than one way of thinking about things.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Peggy McGill's name is very well known and well regarded among my poodle breeder friends. My new dog trainer (who is just fabulous by the way) has a 3-year-old standard from Peggy and he is just gorgeous and has a wonderful temperament. Another friend of mine has a female standard sired by one of Peggy's dogs and she's super pretty and again, wonderful temperament. 

If you are interested in any breeder, I really suggest calling to speak with them, rather then judging them just on their website. A lot of great breeders are just too busy to constantly update their sites. When I was looking for a mini and I called up my future pup's breeder, we had the most wonderful hour-long conversation and I could really see how dedicated she was to the breed. I feel very lucky to have a dog from this breeder.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

sonno23 said:


> "I get the sense that early neurological stimulation was originally developed to use on kennel bred working dogs that typically were not handled a lot as very young puppies. "
> 
> This is very important information for someone like me to see cbrand. Thank you!


From an article on Early Neurological Stimulation:

_The U.S. Military in their canine program developed a method that still serves as a guide to what works. In an effort to improve the performance of dogs used for military purposes, a program called "Bio Sensor" was developed. Later, it became known to the public as the "Super Dog" Program. Based on years of research, the military learned that early neurological stimulation exercises could have important and lasting effects. _


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## poodleholic (Jan 6, 2010)

sonno23 said:


> Hi Poodleholic (love the name),
> 
> Thanks for sending me the link. Those are beautiful dogs but they don't talk about how they raise their pups or the particular things they do regarding healthy breeding. I"m wondering why these breeders don't say anything about that. Raised at home, early neurological training, low COI?
> 
> ...


Beth has been very busy, plus server/computer problems, so she hasn't updated her website. However, I can tell you from personal experience that her puppies are raised in her (fabulously spacious and beautiful) home, her breeding stock live with her in the home, and that she does do the early neurological - she's a wealth of information on that, and practices what she "preaches!" lol When I walked into her home, I was greeted by six very welcoming, friendly, GORGEOUS Spoodles (thought I'd died and gone to heaven!), so I could see for myself what they were like. I had occasion to be there with a new litter of puppies - just prior to their birth, and then after - and was very impressed by it all. She explained the whats and whys of everything, including showing me correct rear angulation and fronts, and so much more. 

My puppy was calm and cooperative on the grooming table, practically housetrained, and with such a fabulous temperament and personality I could take her anywhere, anytime without a worry about anything! She is the sweetest natured little girl, and so fancy, so beautiful, that everyone we've met just falls in love with her! lol Even my daughter's cranky olde hound who hates other dogs! lol


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## poodleholic (Jan 6, 2010)

cbrand said:


> RE early neurological stimulation.......
> 
> I get the sense that early neurological stimulation was originally developed to use on kennel bred working dogs that typically were not handled a lot as very young puppies. Most good show/performance breeders are handling their newborn puppies multiple times a day (I know that I actually air stack the poor things because I'm trying to get a sense of innate structure). I don't see then that a formal system of early neurological stimulation has much more value.
> 
> Frankly I often see mention of early neurological stimulation on web sites of breeders who don't do much with their dogs in way of show/performance. I'm always left thinking...... that's great that you do early neurological stimulation on a three day old puppy. How about doing a little late neurological stimulation by getting out and working your 3 yr old bitch. hwell:



You may well re-think your position on that. Here's a website, and do click on the sample videos that will show amazing results and what very young puppies can, and do, learn to do:
Early Learning Program Highlights


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

poodleholic said:


> You may well re-think your position on that. Here's a website, and do click on the sample videos that will show amazing results and what very young puppies can, and do, learn to do:
> Early Learning Program Highlights


I have seen the guide dog folks do amazing early training and they have nothing but my deepest admiration. But early training is separate and different from early neurological stimulation which by definition takes place between days 3-16. I just feel like Early Neurological Stimulation becomes a meaningless buzz word when used by people who have no experience in training and working dogs. 

Example? Here are some breeders who use Early Neurological Stimulation:
adults
Briar Ridge Poodles N Doodles - Home
City Lights Standard Poodles - Home


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