# Brown Poodles



## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

No, liver (brown) dogs will always have liver pigment. How dark that pigment is depends on the parents.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

And to address questions you did not ask...

If creams are produced from this breeding, they run the risk of having brown pigment which is a disqualifying fault (and not very pretty). Also, the browns from this breeding will have a higher than average chance of fading. In general breeders try to avoid mixing these three colors. 

BTW... most breeders would not consider a cream with liver pigment to be a candidate for breeding.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Yeah.. I've seen the cream/white poodles and other dogs with the liver noses and find it very unappealing. Could a cream be produced from this mixture, even though there's none in the lines?

With the browns with the liver noses and other pigments, are those disqualifying faults for them? Or are browns just not often shown?


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

As my poodle is brown, I'm curious. What is a 'liver' nose?

Also what is "silver-beige" as originally the breeder stated that was her color. she looks brown to me, though! Even her snout (or is muzzle? lol).


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

Liver is just another term for brown, in the dog world most brown dogs are called liver.

Silver Beige is like a Silver but insted of a Black dog with the fading gene its a liver dog with the fading gene. So that means your dark puppy will fade out to a light tan with dark ears like this dog. But thats if its a true Silver Beige, my dog is a Cafe Au Lait, she was born dark and has faded to the color of coffee with creamer in it.


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

Thanks. So how do I really know, or do I just have to wait and see? She has both brown and silver-beige in her lineage. Her father was black and her mother is a silver.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Wow! Do they really fade that much?! That seems a bit extreme, but I also heard it's not really unheard of in poodles. Aren't some whites born with apricot or cream in their ears that fades as they get older?

I'm still learning about all these genetics and fading things, it's all really interesting and this is the best place for ansers.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

And I love how your Bella has a really dark brown nose, that's almost black. If I were to get a brown poodle that's the way I'd want him or her to look. I may be a little biased to say the pale noses are a little off-putting.


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

Aww, thank you.

Our breeder said by looking at the muzzle was how we could tell what color she could turn out to be. Well, actually said that to us when we were looking at seemingly black puppies to tell us they would be "blue." But they all had shaved muzzles, so maybe that's why you could tell? I don't know...


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

My white Spoo has a pink nose, and I was wondering why that was?
Her brother has black pigmentation and has been titled.
Her ancestors in the last 4 or 5 generations have all been white, and her brother has only been bred to blacks. Is it the blacks that give pigmentation? and the whites' fade over generations???


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Wow! Do they really fade that much?! That seems a bit extreme, but I also heard it's not really unheard of in poodles. Aren't some whites born with apricot or cream in their ears that fades as they get older?
> 
> I'm still learning about all these genetics and fading things, it's all really interesting and this is the best place for ansers.


I think the confusion lies in that what poodle breeders call "cream" most pet owners would call white. Creams are often born a milk color with darker, butter colored hair on ears and down the back and they fade to a lighter color that looks almost white.

There are a few Poodles who are truly white. These puppies are born an ice white color with no visible cream color hair on their ears. 

As far as Bella goes, I think she will be a Cafe and not a Silver-Beige. The Silver-Beiges I have seen are a redder color as puppies, they have lighter faces and they tend to clear their color more quickly. I don't know how old your girl is in your photos, but she is still pretty dark on her body and her face looks dusky rather than light.


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

cbrand said:


> As far as Bella goes, I think she will be a Cafe and not a Silver-Beige. The Silver-Beiges I have seen are a redder color as puppies, they have lighter faces and they tend to clear their color more quickly. I don't know how old your girl is in your photos, but she is still pretty dark on her body and her face looks dusky rather than light.


Thanks. She is 4-5 months in the photos.


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## Shereen (Aug 10, 2009)

Browns can be born with black points, but a true brown will only have dark amber eyes, dark liver nose, lips, eye rims and toenails.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

jak said:


> My white Spoo has a pink nose, and I was wondering why that was?
> Her brother has black pigmentation and has been titled.
> Her ancestors in the last 4 or 5 generations have all been white, and her brother has only been bred to blacks. Is it the blacks that give pigmentation? and the whites' fade over generations???


Looking at your picture, I think your poodle actually has correct pigment but that it might have what we call a snow-nose. This is a nose that started out black when it was a puppy but by age 1 yr or so the nose lost its pigment. These noses typically darken a bit in the summer with sun exposure and lighten in the winter. Hence the name. Does your dog have black lips and eye rims?

A cream/white with brown pigment will have a truly pink nose, pink eye rims, and pink lips. Genetically it is bbee. http://www.vetgen.com/chromagene-coat-color2.html

For the last few years, Doodle breeder have been specifically breeding poodles with this color combination because they won't ever produce black when bred to brown dogs and black Doodles are harder for breeders to sell.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Wow, that's a very interesting site, cbrand, thank's for linking that.

Are black standards harder to sell because they're more common? Or does it just go with the whole black pets in any form are harder to sell / adopt.


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

Shereen said:


> Browns can be born with black points, but a true brown will only have dark amber eyes, dark liver nose, lips, eye rims and toenails.


Interesting, our pup has all of these things but I guess only time will tell.  

Thanks for all of the information.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Wow, that's a very interesting site, cbrand, thank's for linking that.
> 
> Are black standards harder to sell because they're more common? Or does it just go with the whole black pets in any form are harder to sell / adopt.


I don't think black Standard Poodles are hard to sell. People who contact me are usually looking for black. 

In Colorado, I often have a hard time convincing people to think about cream/white puppies. Buyers are always under the impression that light colored poodles somehow get dirty sooner (dogs get dirty at the same rate regardless of color) and lots of people are worried about tear staining because they have seen that on the Minis and Toys. I also think that it is a macho thing. A lot of men who are taking the 1st time poodle plunge think that a black dog is somehow butcher than a cream dog.

I like to encourage people to think about cream poodles:
They don't get as hot in the sun.
They are easier to see at night in the tent.
Children are more receptive to light colored dogs (therapy work).


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

jak said:


> My white Spoo has a pink nose, and I was wondering why that was?
> Her brother has black pigmentation and has been titled.
> Her ancestors in the last 4 or 5 generations have all been white, and her brother has only been bred to blacks. Is it the blacks that give pigmentation? and the whites' fade over generations???


Sea kelp pills will help with the pigment on a dog. Ive personally gave them to our female Ch Amstaff that had a semi filled in black nose when we got her. (the rest was pink) Anyhow, it filled in completely with in 4-6 months of taking the pills and then we no longer had to color in her nose for shows. Yea!! Not to mention she looked so much prettier with a filled in nose. 

How old is your poodle? I dont know if the kelp will have a effect on a older dog. She does have black eye liner (pigment)around the eyes right?


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

cbrand said:


> I don't think black Standard Poodles are hard to sell. People who contact me are usually looking for black.
> 
> In Colorado, I often have a hard time convincing people to think about cream/white puppies. Buyers are always under the impression that light colored poodles somehow get dirty sooner (dogs get dirty at the same rate regardless of color) and lots of people are worried about tear staining because they have seen that on the Minis and Toys. I also think that it is a macho thing. A lot of men who are taking the 1st time poodle plunge think that a black dog is somehow butcher than a cream dog.
> 
> ...


I love white/cream poodles. I think they are prettier then a black poodle (I own a black standard. lol) The hubby requested to please get a black Standard Poodle so I picked against a beautiful white male. Luckily we love our Eli and wouldnt trade him for anything. If there's a next time, I wont get another black over white or cream.


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

LOL, Dh was against a white or cream poodle for those reasons.  In the end we had to choose from brown, "blue" or black though. We chose brown b/c I had a black dog growing up and I just didn't want to be reminded of her (she was my baby and only "sibling," I still miss her!) everytime I looked at Bella.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_It's really funny the perception people get about how dirty a dog is by what color it is. Since I have both a blue and an apricot, I know for a fact that they each get just as dirty as the other. They are bathed once a week and, although Taffy looks dirty because of her light coloring, I get the same amount of dirt flowing off of them in the tub!

I love the whites and the creams. I just didn't find one I liked when I was shopping around.

Black seems to be a very popular color for spoos. In the show ring, you mostly see black and white spoos. The other colors don't fair as well against them.
_


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Saffy does have black rims around her eyes and black lips, she comes from good lines that all have black pigmentation. Her breeder also mentioned that her grandmother "Gr Ch Tiopepi Ice Maiden from Suraliam (IMP UK)" had snow nose as well, and she fed her the Royal Canin Poodle Food which apparently helped with it.

Her nose in the summer does get darker, but more of a darker red colour than black. She is 4 1/4 now and we have had her exactly a year and he nose doesn't change colour all that much, but I might try those Sea Kelp Pills,
BTW what did you use to colour your dogs nose at shows?


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

So upon further examination of Miss Bella, her eye rims, lips and nose are brown. I think her toe nails are black though. It could be super super super dark brown, but it's hard to tell. If their toe nails are brown is it very dark or like the skin?


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## Shereen (Aug 10, 2009)

Bella's Momma said:


> So upon further examination of Miss Bella, her eye rims, lips and nose are brown. I think her toe nails are black though. It could be super super super dark brown, but it's hard to tell. If their toe nails are brown is it very dark or like the skin?


Jakes nails look black but they are actually brown, I would guess bellas are brown if the rest of her points are brown. The pads of their feet can also be black but a true pure brown should not have any black pigmentation.


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