# Blindness?



## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

I've only had one blind poodle and his was the result of cataracts (diabetes). In such cases, cataract surgery is an option, but it sounds like your little girl has something entirely different. On a good note, most dogs do quite well blind (although I wouldn't move the furniture a lot). In the months prior to his cataract surgery, Brandy got around just fine. In fact, you wouldn't have known he was blind!

I'm not a poodle health expert, but the poods I bought from a breeder were PRA certified or whatever...so I believe it's a concern in the breed. 

Good luck at the vet and keep us posted!

Poodle | Poodles


> Poodles may have Cataracts which is a cloudiness or film over the lens of the eye. This condition can be hereditary. You should check the health of the parents before buying your puppy. *Glaucoma is another hereditary concern when choosing a Poodle. Glaucoma is caused by an increase in the fluid pressure within the eye. It is the leading cause of blindness in poodles.* Miniature Poodles are prone to narrow-angle glaucoma which requires surgery. *Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA) *refers to inherited eye disorders affecting the retina. Night blindness is usually the first sign of trouble. Other concerns are Corneal Dystrophy, Congenital Night Blindness, Entropion and Tear Duct Anomalies.


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## Goldielox (Jul 6, 2011)

Also, she can see some things. She moves her head towards light and can tell when you pass your hand in front of her face. But, she can't find a treat you're trying to give her unless you put it under her nose where she can smell it. Also, in places where it's darker, she has more trouble getting around.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

If you hold your hand with your palm facing her and move it quickly towards her face, does she blink? The ophthalomologist did this numerous times before and after Brandy's surgery and the difference was amazing. When he had cataracts, he didn't react. Post-surgery, he'd blink and pull back his head.

Most vets these days can test a pup for glaucoma. You don't even need to see a specialist to have the test done. 

Please let us know what your vet says. I'm very curious and hope it's something treatable. If not--_worse case scenario_, she should (hopefully) learn to adapt to her blindness. 

I found this book incredibly helpful:
Amazon.com: Living With Blind Dogs: A Resource Book and Training Guide for the Owners of Blind and Low-Vision Dogs, Second Edition (9780967225340): Caroline D. Levin: Books


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## Goldielox (Jul 6, 2011)

Not that I can tell, but we're currently in one of the less lit rooms in our house. She does move her head when a shadow falls across it. She also seems to be constantly rubbing at her eyes as if they itch.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

It could be PRA- progressive retinal atrophy- which is a hereditary condition in poodles and some other breeds. It is one of the conditions that they recommend poodle breeders test for before breeding their dogs. Do your dogs eyes glow red or green at night? I know there is some connection with the eye glow, but can't remember what the connection is- either they glow more or they glow red- you could look it up. Red glowing dogs don't see nearly as well at night because they are missing a membrane, but they aren't blind. 

here is some info:

Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)
Julie Gionfriddo, DVM 
Diplomate ACVO 
ACVO Genetics Committee/CERF Liaison 

Progressive retinal atrophy (PRA) is the name given to a group of hereditary retinal diseases in dogs. Although there are several classifications of the disease according to the age of onset of the disease and the types of retinal pathology which occur, almost all forms of PRA eventually lead to complete blindness. In some breeds of dogs, such as the Irish Setter and Norwegian Elkhound the disease begins very early in life (as early as 6 weeks of age.) In this type of PRA, there is a problem with the initial development of the rods and cones (the light receptor cells in the retina). The puppies with this disease often show behavioral signs associated with decreased vision as early as 12 weeks of age and may become completely blind by 1 to 2 years of age. 

Miniature and Toy Poodles, American and English Cocker Spaniels, Portuguese Water Dogs, and Labrador Retrievers have a form of PRA called progressive rod-cone degeneration (prcd). This is the most widespread hereditary retinal disease leading to blindness in dogs. It usually has a later onset, and affected dogs may have decreased vision or blindness at 4 to 7 years of age. In this type of PRA the rod and cone cells of the retina develop normally but gradually degenerate. 

The first sign of most types of PRA is night blindness. This is because the rods (the cells which allow vision in reduced light) degenerate before the cones (the cells which allow vision in the bright light). Often dogs will bump into objects in a dimly lighted room; a room in which a person can see well enough to avoid the object. Gradually dogs with PRA will lose their ability to see in lighted rooms and will go completely blind. They will frequently have dilated pupils. Sometimes owners will notice increased shininess or hyperreflectivity to the back of the eye. 

Veterinary ophthalmologists who examine dogs with PRA will see a decrease in the size and number of the retinal blood vessels and a change in the reflectivity of the tapetum (the shinny membrane behind the retina). An important test done by ophthalmologists to diagnose PRA is an electroretinogram (ERG). This test detects the small electrical signals given off by the cells of the retina when they respond to light. The ERG is done by placing a contact lens on the eye and 2 small electrodes on the head. A bright light is then flashed into the eye. If the retina is normal, a distinctive signal is given off by the retina which is amplified and measured on a computer. If the retina is abnormal, the signal will be reduced in amplitude. 

In all breeds except Siberian Huskies, PRA is inherited by an autosomal recessive gene. In Huskies it is thought to be a sex linked recessive trait. Since it takes 2 recessive genes (one from the mother and one from the father) in the same puppy to produce a dog with PRA, this inherited disease is difficult to remove from a breed. The PRA gene may be "hidden" in the genome and the disease may not occur in many generations of puppies, only to show up when 2 dogs carrying the PRA gene are bred together. In many breeds, the only way to determine if a dog or bitch carries the PRA gene is to test breed him or her. This involves breeding a known affected dog to a dog that is suspected to be a carrier and having the puppies examined for PRA. This is expensive and time consuming (especially in breeds with late onset PRA). 

Fortunately, Drs. Gustavo Aguirre and Gregory Acland at the James A. Baker Institute at Cornell University have localized the gene for prcd in some breeds of dogs to chromosome 9. This has led to the development of a blood test for PRA. The test will be available in the fall of 1998 for Portuguese Water Dogs. Other breeds for which the genetic test will be available in the future include the Labrador Retriever, American Cocker Spaniel, and English Cocker Spaniel. The ability to identify carriers of the gene for PRA by a blood test will be a tremendous aid to dog breeders. 

Good luck at the vet appointment. I hope the eye rubbing is a sign of something curable. My fingers are crossed.


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## lavillerose (Feb 16, 2011)

SARDs can happen in days or even hours and is NOT hereditary, and also comes with other significant symptoms you would have noticed. I have a longtime tpoo grooming client who developed SARDs in the last couple of months, so I've learned a lot about it recently. One symptom of SARDs is very rapid weight gain, which was my client's most noticable symptom before the blindness occurred, she went from healthy weight to an enormously fat little prairie dog in just a few months with no major diet change whatsoever. SARDs is also linked to chronic liver issues, which my client has also struggled with all her life. Generally it happens to older toy breeds. When you go to the vet, have a blood test done to check the liver function, as that can help rule out SARDs.

The itching tells me her eyes are irritated, and with the background of a recent eye trauma, I would consider possible a corneal scratch or something similar. Corneal scratches can cause significantly blurred vision if the scratching is bad enough. The vet can do a dye test for this, and usually they need antibiotics to prevent it infecting. If not that, it's also possible there was nerve damage that was more significant than you thought. If you didn't witness the rough-housing, it's totally possible both eyes were injured, but one more than the other. Toys have eyes that protrude more than bigger poodles, so they are always more susceptible to eye injury, and even minor injuries can become more serious than they might be for a larger dog. I've seen more toy dogs lose eyes due to minor infections going awry than any large breed.


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## Mini-Mum (Oct 14, 2010)

Clouded, itchy eyes can also be a sign of uveitis (inflammation of the uvea, or middle area of the eye) or corneal abrasions, as mentioned by lavillerose.


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## Goldielox (Jul 6, 2011)

I adopted Pixie from a shelter so I don't know anything about her parents. I can't even be sure she's full blood even though she sure looks it. The symptoms she has seem to mimic a couple different things but she doesn't seem to have all the symptoms of any of them. 

After reading the replies, I had a thought. I have an app on my phone that turns the camera flash into a flashlight. It also blinks on and off. Pixie is currently laying in bed with me, furiously chewing on a new toy, and didn't pay attention at first. When I bent closer to her, she looked up at me and I noticed that her pupils are reacting to the light, constricting and dilating as the light turned on and off. That can only be a good sign, right?

It's just so sad to see her look at me and that spark is missing from her eyes. She looks so vacant but seems to be in good spirits. She's still giving Nina heck.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

Are the whites of her eyes pinkish or red?


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## Goldielox (Jul 6, 2011)

I couldn't see the whites of her eyes at lunch (I could've tried harder but I didn't want to upset her) but did notice what appeared to be a glow at the back of her eyes. Also, in the daylight today, she blinked when I moved my hands toward her face.

ETA: I got a look at the whites of her eyes and they're kind of bloodshot looking. I'd say more pink than red.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I hope all goes well & the eyes clear up. We would all be interested to know what the results are.

On another note dogs do adapt to blindness (if not treatable by surgery). My 12 1/2 year old Crested is just about totally blind & she does really well. Her blindness has come on gradually though so she has adjusted over the past year with Cataracts. At night of course is the hardest & we just pick her up & take her outside. We try not to move furniture BUT we do have a 5 yo in the house so stools etc... get moved. She has more trouble jumping gracefully but still does jump up on the bed just from much further back & getting up into the recliner can pose a bit of a hit or miss dog in the face scenario. But the good news is dogs are amazing being blind.


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## Goldielox (Jul 6, 2011)

So, we just got back from the vet and she has cataracts. That's what the glow I saw was. I'm used to dogs have thick white cataracts that cover their eyes so that never occurred to me. He said she's pretty young to get them, so we drew some blood to rule out diabetes. 

He said it's possible that it's autoimmune related and gave her some steroidal eye ointment. They actually seem to have already helped some. 

More than likely, it's been coming on for a while and just got to the point where it was affecting her in a noticeable way.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

Goldielox said:


> So, we just got back from the vet and she has cataracts. That's what the glow I saw was. I'm used to dogs have thick white cataracts that cover their eyes so that never occurred to me. He said she's pretty young to get them, so we drew some blood to rule out diabetes.
> 
> He said it's possible that it's autoimmune related and gave her some steroidal eye ointment. They actually seem to have already helped some.
> 
> More than likely, it's been coming on for a while and just got to the point where it was affecting her in a noticeable way.


Oh no! Hang in there! 
That was my concern--and then when you said the sclera was pink. That's what I remember from Brandy and his diabetes-related cataracts (and her symptoms sounded very similar). Brandy's eyes had an eerie glow but you could see the "white film" covering his eyes. He was on daily eye drops until his cataract surgery and they really seemed to help (stop inflammation and pain). 

I hope she doesn't have diabetes, but if she does, it's easy to live with once you get used to giving the insulin shots. Your vet will run a number of glucose curves to get her on the correct type/amount of insulin. The most important thing is to stick to a consistent schedule and strict diet. 

Keep us posted!


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

Well if it is cataracts & at such a young age if healthy might be a good candidate for eye surgery. I have had several clients that have had successful eye surgery with their dogs. My own Crested though has kidney issues, & heart issues so she cannot have the surgery. I though think you said your dog was around 3? So, very good age to have it done if it can be done. One of my clients had her 2 yo Crested Cataracts removed & their vet said younger dogs have a better recovery time then the older dogs. Hope all is going well though.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

Just out of curiosity, did your vet suggest you take her to see an ophthmalogist? Or is he waiting for the blood test results? 

No matter what happens--don't fret. Brandy was 15 years old when he had cataract surgery. And a diabetic. He did fine and was able to see for his last year.


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