# Part-y Poodle



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Puppy hair flops.  After coat change, it should stand up nicely, but sometimes the light colored dogs don't have as wirey a coat as the darker colors. Puppy hair doesn't have enough substance, but is awfully nice to bury your nose in. You can't expect to have an enormous coat without product in it in fine, soft puppy hair. The harness is certainly part of the problem, too. What about a light weight nylon collar for walks?


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

First, she's adorable! 

I think part of your problem is the puppy coat. It doesn't have the texture to hold up to the longer cuts. (At least that was my experience with Alex and Pippin, who both have very thick hair.) You could try some products--like Chris Christensen's Thick N Thicker--but I think you'll notice a big change once her adult coat grows in. 

Do you use a coat spray when brushing (ie., Ice on Ice or Crown Royale)? That might eliminate or reduce your need for conditioners while bathing. If she doesn't pull while walking, you could try one of the thin/"satin" show leads. 

Good luck with her and post more pics.  

Some helpful links about show leads:
http://www.poodleforum.com/27-showing/15099-show-lead.html
http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/3961-show-poodle-neck-hair-saver-collars.html

Great link on growing the show coat: http://www.vipoodle.org/PDF_Files/ShowCoat.pdf


> Never have a collar on your dog unless you have it in a training situation or the ring. Collars of all types are very destructive of the precious neck hair. When you train, use a nylon or satin "neck gaiter" or snood over which the collar can be placed. Remember, any time your dog has a collar around its neck that neck hair is being worn and broken off.
> 
> In tracking training you may put a nylon or satin jumpsuit or tee shirt under the harness on your dog. This protects from foxtails, seeds, weeds, sun and the tracking harness. If ticks are prevalent, you can lightly spray the jumpsuit with a tick repellent to further help save on coat loss by decreasing the number of ticks that get onto the dog. If your jumpsuit is water repellent it is also helpful in saving and protecting coat during the rainy season or deep snow.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Thank you for your suggestions! : )

I did originally start with a collar for leash training, but even just a few times of rushing to the end of the leash got her in a bit of a coughing fit. Now she still pulls some, but she's also learned how to relieve the pressure and is probably quite sturdier than she was a month ago! Maybe we'll give the collar another go. It was my initial preference for this reason! I thought less material = less impact on her coat. A friend of mine actually makes show leads and I already told her I'd love one for Lumi when she's older. I thought for the learning phase, we'll stick with the harness so she doesn't hurt her little neck! : P But, we're going to try the collar again. Wish us luck!

As far as product, no, I don't use anything. I'm SO glad I got her and can now figure out all of this grooming stuff. I mean, I do know a lot and I go to seminars, but almost all of my clients or short shaves. Without any dogs to scissor, how can practice scissoring? Without any dogs to fluff, how can I practice fluffing? I'll look for one, or both, of those products. I used to use both on my boss's standard Poodle years ago at my old job!

What I'm scared of, though, is if this part will remain permanent in the adult coat if it sticks around long enough in the puppy coat. Or, is the adult coat new hairs from new follicles that won't be pulled into the same trend as the puppy hairs? I really wouldn't mind much if it flip-flopped any which way, but it's smooshed down like a Cher part! Hahaha


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I would give collars another try. Swizzle had a learning curve too but he picked it up very fast. I think harnesses actually encourage pulling. Swizzle is a perfect gentlemen on his lead now. I thought when I saw the great job you did grooming that you must be a professional. I wish you lived closer so you could groom Swizzle - I want your cut so there would be the added benefit that you could get more practice in scissoring. I think you hit the jackpot for the perfect grooming dog. Lumi hair is so nice - even as a puppy - I can't wait to see what her adult hair will look like. It is hard to imagine that it will get even better. How old are toys when they lose their puppy coat? Swizzle is 11 months and it still has not changed.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Well, we took two walks today in her collar and she did GREAT! Yes, I also agree that harnesses sometimes promote pulling - they make it so comfortable!! Haha But, I was worried she'd damage herself with the collar. I don't want to be one of those neurotic toy breed moms, but they really are so fragile! Still, even with a few boughts of flinging herself to the end of the leash today, she showed no signs of getting hurt. No coughing or drop in morale. And she's less inclined to hang out at the end with tension the way she would in the harness. I think this may work out just fine. : )

Hopefully with less (or no) harness use, we'll see an improvement in her part. : )


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Oh, and thank you everyone for the compliments!

CT Girl, I wish I could groom Swizzle, too!! I think coat changes on toys are usually done by about a year, but I definitely think it would have started already. Maybe he's a late bloomer? : P Did you see his parents' coats?


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

This is from that PDF I linked earlier, but I'm not sure if it's 100% accurate:


> *Puppies change coat somewhere between the ages of 6-18 months, typically around 9 months of age. (*Puppy coat being replaced by adult coat.) Onset and duration of coat change varies due to family lines, variety and, to some extent, coat color and texture. Frequent matting will signal the beginning of coat change. Keep the coat clean. You may need to brush as often as twice daily, or as infrequently as twice weekly, to keep the coat free of mats.


http://www.vipoodle.org/PDF_Files/ShowCoat.pdf


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Thank you so much, Rowan! My mistake! My Adobe doesn't work and I couldn't open that file. : / I knew that *some* dogs take longer than a year, but I didn't think it was more than a month or two over, and I've only ever seen that in large breeds whose bodies are still maturing at that point! But, that's what I get for going by what I've seen and not what I've read. There are a whole lot of dogs out there I've never met! : P


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

No problem, PammiPoodle.

I love the pic in your OP. It looks like she's:

a) thinking really hard
b) making a wish
c) on the verge of a tantrum
d) trying to fly
e) wondering if she can jump off that table and escape
f) ??? 

 Do you have any more pics of her from this same day? I'd love to see her face.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Rowan, that's the same day as "Lumi's First Haircut!!" here:

http://www.poodleforum.com/9-poodle-grooming/15450-lumis-first-haircut.html

But here are some others I didn't post there:


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Oh, and per your multiple choice, I think it was a combination of a and e. And Lumi lives at c! :devil:


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

PammiPoodle said:


> Rowan, that's the same day as "Lumi's First Haircut!!" here:
> 
> http://www.poodleforum.com/9-poodle-grooming/15450-lumis-first-haircut.html
> 
> But here are some others I didn't post there:


Right after I posted, I was scratching my head and thinking it was probably the same day. LOL She's got an adorable face--no sign of a tantrum in those pics! (Looks more like she's making a wish.  )


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Just an fyi to all my helpful helpers, Lumi's part is almost completely gone! The harness was absolutely the culprit. Her coat still flops this way and that, and there is a soft, fluffy part (if that makes any sense) in the spot where it was a defined and flattened part. I think it will be history after the next bath and blow dry. : ) Thanks for the input, all!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

So glad you solved the mystery! I understand you being concerned about her little neck with a collar as I was concerned about my whippets neck with a regular collar. For him a soft wide martingale worked, but it wouldn't work on a poodle- that would really mess their hair up. 

Your puppy has an amazing amount of hair for a 3.5 month old. You should have lots of good times playing with it. My standard puppy is 8 months old and her head is starting to get spongy and thick feeling. She hasn't had a single knot yet, though. Maybe because I brush her a lot or maybe she just won't get a bunch? Wishful thinking, probably.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I am glad the problem is so easily solved. Her hair is amazing - I am so glad she got you as her owner. You are going to have so much fun turning her out and we are going to have so much fun watching your creations.


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