# Standard With Neuro Problem



## Saphire (Nov 15, 2013)

My 4 year old female spayed standard woke up blind about 6 weeks ago. She was an active healthy dog when she went to sleep and was stumbling around in the morning. She ended up having about 6 seizures that lasted about a minute each over the next 24 hours. We think she probably had a seizure that morning because that was causing the blindness. Her sight came back within a day and since being put on seizure medicine has not had another one.

Neurologist recommended an MRI and spinal tap and put her on an anti seizure medicine and prednisone and antibiotics and priolisec. The antibiotics are done. The MRI showed a diffuse mass on the left near the visual cortex.

The radiologist thought it was a tumor but the Neurologist thought it was more like an autoimmune brain disease which he says is more common in smaller poodles. Since the brain tumor is not treatable he is treating her for the autoimmune disease. The spinal tap was clean, no tumor or infection which was the third possibility. However the vet does not believe that a negative spinal tap is definitive although a positive one would have been. She developed a skin lesion from the MRI paddles on her stomach which is slowly clearing up, when that is healed he plans to start her on Cyclosporin. Again more because there are no other options. She is doing ok.

She is weaker on her right side but if you did not know she was sick and did not know her before you would not realize there is anything wrong. She was a typical 4 year old before she got sick and now acts more like a 10 year old. My college age kids who came home recently claim she is not the same. She is quieter, barely wants to spend any time in the yard, less playful but otherwise seems fine and has a good quality of life. I occassionally see her paws slip a little but it is subtle. She is of course starving all the time from the prednison. Which is a problem because I have implemented a ketogenic diet as it is beneficial for both autoimmune and tumors in people and dogs.

Anyone have experience with this or Cyclosporin or the other medications? Other suggestions as to what this may be? Treatment options not mentioned

Everything seems to be wait and see

Anyone have their dog go into remission from autoimmune brain disease

Healthwise she has never had any problems other than situations she created where she gets into places she should not, for example she has eaten chocolate in the past with no problems and in October had an incident with Macadamia nuts but was fine within a day. Since this happened in February I do not believe it is related. She has not had shots for over a year but was reasonably up to date in innoculations. She is a standard, normal size but not particularly large, about 45 - 50 lbs.

She came from a reputable show breeder who dogs are registered with Offa and have chic numbers. As far as I know her parents are alive


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

I have no experience with autoimmune brain disease, just wanted to say I'm very sad and sorry that you and your dog are going through this.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

Thoughts and prayers for you and your standard. This must be horrible to be going through. Sounds like you are doing the best possible. Stay strong.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I am so sorry you and your young poodle are having to deal with this. Sometimes lightening strikes, even when you’ve gone to a good breeder. I hope she improves with her special diet. Prayers your way during the “wait and see” period.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Best wishes for you fur baby, It is awful when they are sick


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I have heard of dogs with prolonged blindness after seizures but the cause was epilepsy.....what you describe, I've not witnessed and you have my deepest sympathy! It sounds worrisome! Such a young dog too! Hope you find the way thru this.... Bless You for being such a good poodle parent!


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## j4bs4209333 (Nov 24, 2017)

Saphire said:


> My 4 year old female spayed standard woke up blind about 6 weeks ago. She was an active healthy dog when she went to sleep and was stumbling around in the morning. She ended up having about 6 seizures that lasted about a minute each over the next 24 hours. We think she probably had a seizure that morning because that was causing the blindness. Her sight came back within a day and since being put on seizure medicine has not had another one.
> 
> Neurologist recommended an MRI and spinal tap and put her on an anti seizure medicine and prednisone and antibiotics and priolisec. The antibiotics are done. The MRI showed a diffuse mass on the left near the visual cortex.
> 
> ...


I don't know much about auto-immune diseases, but I googled your dog's symptoms and I'm thinking your vet suspected Encephalitis (GME seems to be the most common type). I also Googled Cyclosporin and it seems as though it's prescribed as an immune suppressant. So by giving her that they are treating it as an auto-immune disease. Again I don't know much about auto immune diseases, but I am pretty certain that in people (and probably dogs) with an auto-immune disease the body's immune system attacks healthy cells for some reason. I'll use a friend of mine for an example, she has MS, which is an auto-immune disease. In her MRI they could see the lesions on her brain where the immune system attacked normal cells, but there are no masses. The word mass alone would make me agree with the radiologist. I have a 10 year old mini with Cushing's, which is generally caused by a small pituitary tumor in the brain. She has the symptoms you are describing, but more advanced. Her right side is very weak, her front right paw knuckles under her (like it folds under onto what would be your wrist in a person) and right rear leg is very weak. She has vision loss in the right eye and her personality has changed a bit. She will eat any and everything she can get and then wimper for my food. No seizures (although seizures are common with brain tumors), but this all happened one day when she woke up. I thought she had a stroke, but the more I researched the more convinced I am that she has a pituitary macro tumor, which happens in about 10-15% of Cushing's dogs. My mini has all the symptoms and yours has very similar symptoms to mine. The reason I mention all of this is because I have extensively researched treatment options, survival rates based on clinical trials, and costs of treatment for brain tumors. Brain tumors in dogs are actually treatable and depending on the type of tumor the survival rates are pretty good. Unfortunately unless you have insurance the costs are high. I am assuming at this point the vet wants to wait and see if the Cyclosporin fixes her symptoms. I really truly hope medicine is the answer for you. God forbid, if it seems as though she is not getting better from the meds then you can look into stereotactic radiation. I'll provide a link at the end that details types of radiation and types of tumors it works for. If you don't want to "wait and see" you might be able to have the MRI sent to a radiologist for a second opinion without paying for another MRI. The link I am giving below is to Angel Memorial Hospital, they're the most reputable in the Boston area. They do analyze MRI's for $125. That link is the second one listed. I truly hope your furbaby recovers with the meds. God Bless you both.


https://www.mspca.org/angell_servic...on-oncology-and-commonly-irradiated-tumors-2/

https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/online-image-consultations/


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Sorry you and your girl are having to deal with this. I have no knowledge just wanted to let you know we are thinking of you both and hope they find a solution.


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## Saphire (Nov 15, 2013)

Thank you for your insight. I did see it and considered getting a second opinion but she was responding well to the medication and when we saw the vet in May we decided to start reducing her medication. Unfortunately there was not a happy ending that I was hoping to have.

WARNING, a little graphic.

The sad news is that my dog, passed away exactly two months ago. Rather suddenly. I assume it was a brain tumor after all and with all the food she would take from the counters I think she was almost never in ketosis. She was doing great. Saw the specialist in May who started reducing her medicine in early June. We were away for a weekend in Mid June but she was fine when we picked up from friends on Sunday night. She had been a little reluctant to take her cyclosporin my friend said (which she normally loved) but was otherwise fine. Monday was fine. Tuesday greeted me in the morning but refused to eat which I assumed was some minor stomach issue. By the time I came home it was very obviously too late, and she died at home that night. After she passed a lot of blood came out of her face over the next couple of hours. The vet’s assistant thought she might have had a stroke during the day or some other type of bleed. Another possibility which I only learned about later was that the steroids may have made her vulnerable to bleeding. In any case she is gone and while I question what it was I know I will never know and I miss her so much. I am starting to be ready to consider another dog but I am not sure yet. When I contact breeders and they tell me they will not have anything until March I am disappointed but the one breeder who has a puppy ready today makes me nervous too! I really still want my dog back and I know that is impossible

Best wishes to your dog. I hope she is doing well

Thank you for your insight in any case


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## j4bs4209333 (Nov 24, 2017)

Saphire said:


> Thank you for your insight. I did see it and considered getting a second opinion but she was responding well to the medication and when we saw the vet in May we decided to start reducing her medication. Unfortunately there was not a happy ending that I was hoping to have.
> 
> WARNING, a little graphic.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry for your loss. My Sweetie passed on June 14th. I had the mri and spinal tap and she had autoimmune encephalitis and meningitis. We were treating her with immune suppressant low dose chemo, but it didn't help. Even with the neuro issues she was still happy, but the steroids caused some sort of gastric bleeding and she passed on June 14th. I have been thinking about how she only 11 and we got robbed of more time together, but your baby was only 4. I can't imagine that. I want my baby back too and I know that's impossible as well. I am also having a hard time finding a breeder with a litter because I'm insane and want a dog that looks just like her. Not to replace her, but because I thought she was beautiful. Please fight the urge to get the first dog/puppy available, I know it's really hard because I wanted to as well. If you got her from a breeder you should let them know so they no longer breed those parents (if they're reputable and care about the breed). I have seen a lot of breeders mention having all genetic tests done on the parent and sometimes grandparent dogs. They cost much more but it might be worth finding one and waiting for the piece of mind that you will have a long time with your new puppy. The reason I'm having a hard time finding one is because after she passed and I started looking I realized she was most likely half Bichon, but mini poodle sized. She looked almost identical to most Bichons. Again I'm so sorry about your baby. I know how awful it is and I'm sorry you are missing her.


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## Saphire (Nov 15, 2013)

Thank you. I am very sorry for your loss as well. 

I do think whether it was the steroid that caused a bleed with my dog but I will never know. I only recently started looking. While I would be ok with an apricot my kids say they want any other color except that, it is just too soon. I do wonder if some of the more basic colors are healthier, especially black since they are less inbred since color is less of a concern



j4bs4209333 said:


> If you got her from a breeder you should let them know so they no longer breed those parents (if they're reputable and care about the breed). I have seen a lot of breeders mention having all genetic tests done on the parent and sometimes grandparent dogs. They cost much more but it might be worth finding one and waiting for the piece of mind that you will have a long time with your new puppy..


The first thing I did was email the breeder who sent me a nice reply. My dog was a pet but was from a show breeder who had been recommended by several other highly reputable breeders. All of her parents, grandparents and some of her siblings had Chic numbers and were registered with OFA. I met her mother, sister and uncle who were and are all fine. There is no test for this so I no longer feel like I am buying peace of mind by spending more since I already did that. However, there are not a lot of other options. I will not buy from a puppy mill or high volume breeder or pet shop since that perpetuates cruelty. With an untested backyard breeder you have to worry about the more common problems such as hip displaysia and addisons
Meanwhile my dog had always been healthy until she developed this


I would love to do a rescue but need a hypoallergenic dog and the waiting list for those rescues is quite extensive. Plus, while I had originally gotten her because of potential allergies, having never been a poodle person, more of a german shepherd, collie person, I like the breed much more now and really want another one and young poodle rescues are not usually available

Thank you again and best of luck searching


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## j4bs4209333 (Nov 24, 2017)

Saphire said:


> Thank you. I am very sorry for your loss as well.
> 
> I do think whether it was the steroid that caused a bleed with my dog but I will never know. I only recently started looking. While I would be ok with an apricot my kids say they want any other color except that, it is just too soon. I do wonder if some of the more basic colors are healthier, especially black since they are less inbred since color is less of a concern
> 
> ...


I noticed in one of your posts you said you were in Ny. I'm in MA and you're right, it's almost impossible to find a young rescue in this area. I'm constantly on the rescue sites looking. I'm stuck on white mini's only so if I happen to see a young standard available I'll send you the link. Good Luck.


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## murphys (Mar 1, 2012)

Poodle rescue of CT has a young male but they say no young children as he weights 77 lbs. If you like, take a look. His name is Maxx.
For Adoption. On their facebook page, it does say “ we have found that he really would prefer to be an only dog and only pet in the home. ”. Good luck in your search.


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## Saphire (Nov 15, 2013)

j4bs4209333 said:


> I noticed in one of your posts you said you were in Ny. I'm in MA and you're right, it's almost impossible to find a young rescue in this area. I'm constantly on the rescue sites looking. I'm stuck on white mini's only so if I happen to see a young standard available I'll send you the link. Good Luck.



Thank you. I will let you know if I see a white mini! North Shore Animal League in Port Washington is a high volume rescue. It is probably about 4 hours from Boston but you may want to call and see if they have anyone. The problem is they may not let you reserve over the phone so the risk is you drive down and the dog is gone

It is almost impossible to find a youngish poodle rescue. I would take up to age 6 or so. There is usually a waiting list. It amazes me when they find poodles in shelters. Not here


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## Saphire (Nov 15, 2013)

Thank you. I contacted them, the kids are no problem because most places are ok with teenagers. The problem is we have another dog that we foster and they said he has to be an only dog

I went directly to their link and I do not remember seeing the only dog part


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