# NEW Obedience Class



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

The Humane Society has cut their training department, so Millie and I started one-on-one training with a new trainer...and BOY is it different!! Before, she was in puppy class with play time and it was completely reward based with NO corrections.

This is a whole new ballgame! After a 1 hour session Millie seems to have learned that listening is NOT negotiable! But, I felt so horrible the first time he corrected her -she cowered and whined and looked pa-the-tic! I felt that her reaction was severe and I was concerned that he might exacerbate some of her fear issues. 

But, by the end of the class she learned that his corrections were consistent and fair. She was less afraid of his corrections and remained motivated. I am still a little unsure of how I feel about his correction method, but I DO want Millie to LISTEN and this seemed to be more effective than solely reward based training.

He gave me the option to NOT use collar corrections, but said that if I want my dog to be trusted 110% of the time, on or off leash, with or without distractions, that using corrections will be most effective.

What are your experiences with traditional training methods (using collar corrections) or the newer reward based training? Am I doing the right thing?

Edited: I am using a flat nylon collar - not a prong collar.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

You are absolutely doing the right thing. I have watched the some of top Obedience competitors in the country train including Renata van Allen, 2X National Obedience Champion, and they all use corrections with lots of praise and rewards for correct behavior. 

Corrections need to be fair and consistent, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with giving a dog a physical correction.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Good for you!! It's not easy to watch but it sounds like he may have exactly what Millie needs. And kudos to you for having an open mind - wish I had done this sooner. Sounds like a successful class. 

I finally gave in and we are using the prong collar with Suri. It is slow moving but thats partly my fault because of my resistance. I agree with consistent training no matter what it is. We have done more of the rewards training but to go to the next level collar corrections seem to fit our situation and so far so good.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

If it is working Better, she is listening to you more, and she is not afraid then i say Yes, it is a better choice!! 

I prefer more positive training, but i dont have a problem giving fair collar corrections. Just because you give collar corrections doesnt mean you dont also praise your dog and they love you!


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## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

I am neither a trainer, nor do I compete in Obedience or Agility, my personality is too competitive that it would no longer be fun for myself or the poodles.

I have used both traditional, clicker and purely reward based training. I have NEVER corrected nor told Baldr NO, and he has the best recall ever. He is very obedient, he has a small issue with out of sight and very long distance sit-stays (too much of a momma's boy). Foxxy I trained the same way and her sit stay is SOLID and she is also very obedient and well behaved. I get many comments from people saying that I have such well behaved poodles, of course all dogs have their moments, but they are very good.
I think training is a very personal choice, and what works best for you.

Below are some pics of where I put Foxxy in a sit stay and Baldr and I walked away and around to the bank of the river in front of her. When I released her, she decided to use the shortest path until she realized the water was a little too deep for her liking


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think one of the biggest problems with collar correction on small dogs is doing them "correctly" - enough to have an effect, without harming the dog. It can be very difficult to get the angle right without cricking your back, and a tug at the wrong angle can damage the dog's throat or neck. I am reluctant to use aversive methods in general (although do I use No!, followed by praise when the behaviour stops, and once roared at Poppy when other methods to stop her favourite game of nipping my bum failed!). Reward based works for us - I, too, have proud Mum moments when people comment on how well-behaved my dogs are. (Poppy is going through a yappy phase, but we are working on that!)


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

too many reward based trainers that even though your reward based- rules still apply. 

There has to be some correction for bad behavoir. YES we want to teach GOOD behavoir- but bad behavoir still needs to be corrected.


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

ChocolateMillie said:


> But, by the end of the class she learned that his corrections were consistent and fair. She was less afraid of his corrections and remained motivated. I am still a little unsure of how I feel about his correction method, but I DO want Millie to LISTEN and this seemed to be more effective than solely reward based training.
> 
> What are your experiences with traditional training methods (using collar corrections) or the newer reward based training? Am I doing the right thing?
> 
> Edited: I am using a flat nylon collar - not a prong collar.


First, I think you are doing the right thing by watching Millie and seeing how she reacts to this. IMO, too many people make blanket statements about x training method and all dogs.

Is the trainer balancing corrections with equally enthusiastic praise and treats? I also went for a private lesson with a trainer who used tougher corrections with Dexter than I had ever used. At first he also rolled his eyes at me as if to say "Who is this bitch...she seemed so nice at PCA," but he kept working with her and never dropped his tail or shut down. But this trainer also emphasized to me that I needed to time my praise/rewards better, and be more enthusiastic in my praise. In other words, she was balancing corrections with strong positive reinforcement.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I do have to say...after yesterday, for the first time EVER, Millie will STAY for several minutes at a time! WOW! Before I was lucky to get 30 seconds! This is awesome!


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## bluespoomommy (Feb 25, 2010)

yay millie! i have been slacking on my training with mochi. please do share tips as you go along


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

SnorPuddel said:


> I am neither a trainer, nor do I compete in Obedience or Agility, my personality is too competitive that it would no longer be fun for myself or the poodles.
> 
> I have used both traditional, clicker and purely reward based training. *I have NEVER corrected nor told Baldr NO,* and he has the best recall ever. He is very obedient, he has a small issue with out of sight and very long distance sit-stays (too much of a momma's boy). Foxxy I trained the same way and her sit stay is SOLID and she is also very obedient and well behaved. I get many comments from people saying that I have such well behaved poodles, of course all dogs have their moments, but they are very good.
> I think training is a very personal choice, and what works best for you.
> ...



That's because you must be doing things correctly to the method.
I find a lot of people say that these 'methods' don't work for them etc. and it is only because they aren't doing them properly in the first place !


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## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

jak said:


> That's because you must be doing things correctly to the method.
> I find a lot of people say that these 'methods' don't work for them etc. and it is only because they aren't doing them properly in the first place !


Thanks .... it is funny cause people think I am very strict with my guys, I am just under the belief that dog should have manners and that is it possible to do it in a positive manner like Victoria Stillwell.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Positive training did work for Millie - _especially_ for new learning things, and I will continue to use positive reinforcement. BUT - she was under the impression that she could do things on HER time, not mine. In MY case, using corrections has had an immediate effect on her acceptance of the immediacy of my commands. Sit means sit the FIRST time, etc. 

I am definitely going to use just as much positive reinforcement as correction because I love how this keeps her motivated.


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