# One year old spoo with congestive heart failure :(



## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

Understandably, your heart is breaking and you don't trust this breeder. I don't know what to say, except, I'm sorry.


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## kcp1227 (Jan 25, 2013)

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. I cannot even imagine what you're going through. 


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I am SO sorry to hear this - I am going through this with my 12 year old, but I cannot imagine how devastated you must be to have this happen with a youngster.
As for possibly getting another from the breeder in the future, well sometimes Mother Nature does things that nobody can control. If you feel confident that a breeder is doing everything humanly possible to create puppies with good health, and then something happens anyway, I would still trust the breeder in the future. The fact that she is offering another puppy certainly shows that she cares and has ethics. If she passes all of the "standard tests" of an ethical, health testing, reputable breeder, I see no reason to walk away - but, if you have doubts about her breeding practices, then no,it is not worth risking heartbreak again.
And by the way, I am waiting for a tiny toy from a reputable, health testing show breeder that I have gotten two healthy poodles from in the past, and she has told me that she takes any undersized ones to a Vet with a specialty in cardiology before she places them. I really appreciate that she does this, but it shows me that she recognizes that even when you do everything possible, Mother Nature can still throw you are curve ball, and the only thing to do if it ever did happen would be to protect the customer from the heartache. IMHO, the breeder that I would not trust is the one who says that nothing can ever go wrong, and buries their head in the sand!


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

Shells, I'm so sorry to hear this. I'll keep you both in my thoughts.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

so sorry to hear this. i agree that a breeder cannot control everything, but, yes, i would have concerns about a breeder who does back to back breedings, which is what you seem to be indicating. hope your dog continues to handle the meds well.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

So sorry, I will keep you in my thoughts. Please keep us updated and let us know if you find any other treatments that help.


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## Rachel76 (Feb 3, 2014)

We all know/expect health problems to occur in older dogs and it is so tragic when it happens to them as young dogs. Im so sorry.


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## Carrie-e (Oct 23, 2012)

I am so sorry you are going through this. Big hugs to you and your lovely girl.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

patk said:


> so sorry to hear this. i agree that a breeder cannot control everything, but, yes, i would have concerns about a breeder who does back to back breedings, which is what you seem to be indicating. hope your dog continues to handle the meds well.



Actually, in recent times, the thinking on that has begun to change with breeders - some do now think that with a healthy dog, back to back breedings, with an early retirement is the way to go.
I don't know enough to have an opinion on it, except to realize that in nature they would not breed one cycle and rest the next, and in general I think that it is always best to raise dogs as close to the way that nature intended as possible...so I would not argue with a breeder who believes that back to back breedings are best.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Actually, in recent times, the thinking on that has begun to change with breeders - some do now think that with a healthy dog, back to back breedings, with an early retirement is the way to go.
> I don't know enough to have an opinion on it, except to realize that in nature they would not breed one cycle and rest the next, and in general I think that it is always best to raise dogs as close to the way that nature intended as possible...so I would not argue with a breeder who believes that back to back breedings are best.


when we talk about nature and dogs, i'm not sure anyone knows what we're talking about, dogs have been so subject to human whims. back-to-back breeding has been associated for so long with puppy mills that it's been hard to distinguish the condition of the dogs as a result of breeding from the condition of dogs as a result of the the way they are kept. i would imagine, though, that one advantage of not doing back to back breedings is the opportunity to watch the pups for health and temperament issues before breeding the dog again, especially since i doubt that any breeder has complete control over the gene pool from which s/he is selecting. of course if one uses the same dam and sire over and over again, then maybe one has more certainty.


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## Suddenly (Aug 8, 2013)

I also am so sorry to hear about your baby. It just breaks my heart. I'm sure you're doing your best to keep her comfortable. We are all here for you. Keep us posted, and a big kiss to her.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

patk said:


> when we talk about nature and dogs, i'm not sure anyone knows what we're talking about, dogs have been so subject to human whims. back-to-back breeding has been associated for so long with puppy mills that it's been hard to distinguish the condition of the dogs as a result of breeding from the condition of dogs as a result of the the way they are kept. i would imagine, though, that one advantage of not doing back to back breedings is the opportunity to watch the pups for health and temperament issues before breeding the dog again, especially since i doubt that any breeder has complete control over the gene pool from which s/he is selecting. of course if one uses the same dam and sire over and over again, then maybe one has more certainty.



You make very good points, and like I said - I don't really know enough to have a firm opinion on this - I only brought it up because I also have had the internal puppymill connection to the idea of back to back breedings, but in recent years I have heard of many reputable breeders changing to this philosophy, so I do think that we need to try to break the response of automatically seeing it as a red flag and take other factors into consideration when evaluating a breeder.



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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I am so sorry to hear about this! One year old dogs should not have to suffer with health issues, and their owners should not be saddled with the heart ache or expense of dealing with this sort of trouble. Some health issues do pop up seemingly out of the blue, and at least your breeder offered you a replacement puppy. Some say "Oh dear...I am so sorry" then do nothing else.


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## Beaches (Jan 25, 2014)

Oh Shells
I, too am so sorry you're having to deal with this in a year old spoo. simply not fair! Our hearts and hugs go out to you. Please keep PF updated.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

I am so sorry. What a sad thing to happen. I hope she's kept comfortable and you have a lot of support from your vet.


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## SAS (Jun 16, 2013)

shells said:


> I took my spoo in to be spayed a few months ago. The vet heard a heart murmur that he had not heard before. She was put on meds and a few weeks later he said heart murmur was better. A few weeks later, the murmur turned into her heart POUNDING out of her chest when she was resting. Ultrasound revealed an enlarged heart. So enlarged that the valves don't close. She is on every med that she can be on. Now we wait. I called the breeder and she swears that she hasn't had any other problems. She offered another puppy if/when we would like one. This is my second spoo from this breeder. Not sure I would go back. Could be a fluke, but not sure I want to take the chance. She is a breeder that people have commented on this blog produces too many puppies too fast. Wish I would have known that sooner. Acupuncture is making a big difference. As long as she is comfortable and happy, we will take each day as it comes. :disapointed:



I am so sorry.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I am so saddened for you. I lost my almost 14 year old to that. But at 14, I felt at least that she had had a good life. It just isn't good at all that a one year old pup has this. It is heart breaking. I know the meds are good at keeping them comfortable for varying amounts of time, depending on the severity. It's just not fair to have something like this come up so early. I lost my Doberman at just 4 years of age to something else. But it's really hard and I feel your pain. My heart and my thoughts are with you during this very rough time.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I am so sorry that your puppy has this heart issue. I am glad that acupuncture seems to help. I don't think this issue means you have a bad breeder but you should carefully review her practices next time you look. This is SO not fair.


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## pandj (Jun 12, 2013)

I am so sorry that you are going through this ! My heart goes out to you. Please keep us updated.

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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I am so sorry! How awful to have a young dog so ill. 

Were the parents both tested for cardiac? If she is a breeder selling lots of puppies I do hope the parents were tested! Anything can happen, but if they weren't tested shame on her. Check the mom and dad on ofa:
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

So sorry for your pup's diagnosis, and for you..... will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.


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## PoodlePaws (May 28, 2013)

you will both be in my prayers. I hope the meds work wonders for her. <3


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

How heartbreaking to hear this. 

I am sooo very sorry. I do hope you are able to manage her condition. Please keep us updated and we will keep you in prayers.


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## Constance (Jun 4, 2013)

So sorry for you. I have a young standard and can imagine how upsetting it must be. Hope the meds work wonders. but I feel sorry for the breeder and admire her offer of another puppy. As Tiny Poodle said, accidents can happen in nature and sadly...


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## AleKaiRowdie (Mar 25, 2014)

My heart breaks for you! So sad for a young poodle to be so sick. I do not think any animal should be bred back to back. I actually had a boa constrictor die because my ex bred her back to back. I don't think it's healthy. It takes time for the body to recover from pregnancy-whether it's people or dogs or snakes. Tell me-has any obstetrician EVER delivered a baby then said "hey, you're good to get pregnant again tomorrow".


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

patk said:


> when we talk about nature and dogs, i'm not sure anyone knows what we're talking about, dogs have been so subject to human whims. back-to-back breeding has been associated for so long with puppy mills that it's been hard to distinguish the condition of the dogs as a result of breeding from the condition of dogs as a result of the the way they are kept. i would imagine, though, that one advantage of not doing back to back breedings is the opportunity to watch the pups for health and temperament issues before breeding the dog again, especially since i doubt that any breeder has complete control over the gene pool from which s/he is selecting. of course if one uses the same dam and sire over and over again, then maybe one has more certainty.


Breeders tend to have different schools of thought but reproductive specialists have said that it is best to breed a bitch back to back and then spay her. The reason being that some of the health issues associated with an intact bitch (disease/infection of reproductive tract) may be avoided or minimized by doing this.

That said, there is still the matter of how quickly a bitch can get back into good condition after a litter and how soon the breeder is ready for another litter (it's exhausting!). Also a good point was brought up about waiting to see what health issues might crop up.

I think there are good reasons to breed a bitch back to back and good reasons not to. It depends on the situation and the reason for breeding.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Breeders tend to have different schools of thought but reproductive specialists have said that it is best to breed a bitch back to back and then spay her. The reason being that some of the health issues associated with an intact bitch (disease/infection of reproductive tract) may be avoided or minimized by doing this.
> 
> That said, there is still the matter of how quickly a bitch can get back into good condition after a litter and how soon the breeder is ready for another litter (it's exhausting!). Also a good point was brought up about waiting to see what health issues might crop up.
> 
> I think there are good reasons to breed a bitch back to back and good reasons not to. It depends on the situation and the reason for breeding.



Yes, I was just saying that we need to get out of the habit of calling back to back breedings an automatic red flag!


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## shells (Mar 19, 2014)

Thanks everyone for your kind words. She is doing well. We'll take each day as a gift!


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## shells (Mar 19, 2014)

Unfortunately, we lost our battle.


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## kcp1227 (Jan 25, 2013)

I am so so sorry for your loss 


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

sincere condolences. i am so sorry. i know you did all that you could. i hope you can take some comfort in that.


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## Poodlelvr (Mar 13, 2010)

I am so sorry for your loss. I lost a mini suddenly at 3 years of age, but I think what you have gone through is worse at such a young age. My thoughts and prayers are with you in the days ahead.


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## Wild Kitten (Mar 13, 2014)

I'm really sorry for your loss :hug:


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## pandj (Jun 12, 2013)

I am so sorry ! Please know that you are in our thoughts.

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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

Shells, I am so sorry to hear this. We were all rooting for her! I know you did everything you could...


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I am so very sorry, it is so tragic to lose them so young.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Sorry! My heart aches for you!


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## HerdingStdPoodle (Oct 17, 2012)

*So Sorry*

So Sorry, Shells. :grouphug: HerdingStdPoodle


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Oh no, I am so sorry. This is so tragic.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Oh no...I'm so very sorry and saddened to hear this happened so quickly. One thing though, she didn't go on and on struggling for too long. It's just so sad that she was so young. My heart breaks for you. I know how hard it is. My thoughts are with you that you'll find comfort in time and know that you did everything you could. It's just such a lousy disease. (((hugs)))


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

So very sorry to hear this sad news. It was very unfair for you both.


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## Suddenly (Aug 8, 2013)

I am so sorry for your loss. I feel your pain. Hugs!!


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## PoodlePaws (May 28, 2013)

So very sorry to hear this  big hugs. 


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## Carrie-e (Oct 23, 2012)

Am so sorry,love and hugs to you,and just know she couldn't have had a better home for her short time on this earth,god bless you.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Shell, I am so sorry, this is just not fair... sending you a hug. So sorry.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

My sympathy for your very sad and premature loss. Your devotion to her allowed her to feel loved every moment of her short life. So touching how you stood by her, very sorry you lost her.


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

So sorry that you and your buddy are going through this. It's especially tough with such a youngster.

Rick


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

Shells, you have my deepest sympathy at this heart-breaking time. Please know you are in the thoughts and hearts of folk all over the world, and thank you for giving your baby such a good home even though it was for such an unfairly short time.
:hug:


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

I didn't read all the way through before I posted above. I am so sorry for your loss. My deepest condolences.

Rick


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

I'm so sorry for your loss, I can't imagine how hard it must be, and it's so sad that u had to go through this, but Im sending you my best thoughts hoping your heart can start to heal, and know that she had a short life but she felt loved by you, you did your best , big hug for you


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## Constance (Jun 4, 2013)

So very sorry!


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## KathyB (Feb 10, 2014)

Very sorry for your loss.


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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

I'm so sorry for your loss. It's never easy losing a fur kid, but it's especially tough when they're taken away so young.


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## Red Haired Girl (Jan 5, 2014)

My deepest sympathies for your loss. I'll be keeping you and your family in my thoughts during this tough time. *hugs*


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## Beaches (Jan 25, 2014)

What a heart breaker. So very sorry to hear your news.


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## Siskojan (Mar 13, 2011)

So very sorry to hear such sad news. My condolences to you.


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## benjiboy (Oct 1, 2013)

I'm very sorry for your loss. My heart is broken for you. 

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## Minnie (Apr 25, 2011)

I am so terribly sorry for your loss :-(


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

I am so very sorry for your loss. It is always hard to lose a beloved pet, especially one so young.

My sincere condolences.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

So heartbroken for you............too young, way too young. Hope you find peace in knowing you did all you could, and loved her with all your heart! Big hug from Me & Molly.........


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## AleKaiRowdie (Mar 25, 2014)

So sad. My heart goes out to you. So young! She's waiting for you at the rainbow bridge.


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## Luce (Mar 4, 2013)

So sorry for your loss. You gave her love, companionship and the best health care. She will stay in your memories forever.

I don't know about dog breeding, but I do know sometimes things just happen, no rhyme, no reason. 


Take time to grieve and when the time is right to get another, you will know.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Still thinking about you and your great loss. How are you feeling today? Any kind of acceptance creeping in? I know what it's like to lose one at a young age. But a year was really too young and so unfair. I'm just so sorry.


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## Dallasminis (Feb 6, 2011)

My sincere condolences to you. I hope you can find some relief in knowing that you did everything possible to make her short life wonderful. I am so glad that you were able to nurse her so beautifully. 
When the time is right the perfect poodle will come into your life...love and hugs to you!


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## pu-dellove (Oct 28, 2013)

I am so sorry to hear of your puppy's passing.


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