# Curious about cost of a show dog



## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

I'm just curious the difference in cost between buying a puppy with a conditional registration (spay or neuter agreement) from a champion show quality litter and one with full registration because of intention to breed and show. 
I noticed that many show dogs and bitches are co-owned so I'm wondering if that is because of the higher price for the dog, or because it costs so much time and money to maintain and show a dog. 
As I said, I'm just curious as to how that sort of thing works in the show world. Myself, I am not interested in breeding or showing and both my girls, although beautiful, are pets only.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I don't know about the cost of show dogs, but it is my impression that breeders sometimes retain co-ownership so that they can maintain control over where the dog is shown, how it is bred, and possibly because they want breeding rights or puppies out of it.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Here in Quebec, Canada, it's about 2000$-2500$ for a show toy poodle and 1200$ for a pet.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

The cost of the dog is usually the same or slightly higher than a pet, if bought as a puppy.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

zooeysmom said:


> The cost of the dog is usually the same or slightly higher than a pet, if bought as a puppy.



It might also depend upon how long the breeder keeps it and if they guarantee it will finish.
There are some that will sell an 8 week old puppy with the hopes that it will become show quality, and then there are some that will sell a ring ready, trained and in coat puppy with proper dentition already in at 6-9 months, and I would think there would be a lot higher cost for that!


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## sidewinder (Feb 3, 2016)

The reasons for co-ownership are rarely financial. Usually, it's to make sure the breeder has some control over what happens to a lovingly raised pup sold with full registration. Good breeders who care about their dogs and don't want them to end up in a puppy mill situation will require a co-ownership, especially if they don't know the buyer personally.

Or a co-ownership may represent a cooperative venture between 2 friends who made breeding decisions together.

I know that when I was breeding and showing (Scotties), I got more than one phone call from someone who was promising me that the dog would be shown and finished, etc, but I didn't trust them. So they didn't get a dog from me...I dislike co-ownerships unless it's with a friend. Finding good homes for puppies is the most nerve-wracking part of being a breeder (once whelping is done, anyway).

The whole doodle craze would be scary to me if I was a poodle breeder. I'd be afraid of selling a dog as a pet with limited papers to someone who couldn't register purebred offspring, but they sure could create doodles...no AKC registration on those! If you co-owned a dog that ended up in a situation like that, you would have legal recourse to reposess it.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I wish some of our breeder members would chime in. Arreau? NOLO? I would like to know the ballpark difference and the caveats, if any. WestU and I were just talking about this elusive number today. Curious minds, need to know...


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## shell (Jul 10, 2015)

I am interested in this too..not that I am looking for a show dog but I had a dream that I was going to start showing standard poodles...heh


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

Thanks everyone. That satisfies my curiousity. It makes perfect sense that a breeder condition the sale as a co-ownership to control breeding and registration to maintain the good bloodline. (Thanks to those dedicated breeders who maintained their lines and brought back beautiful poodles after the 60's - 70's popularity when everyone had to have one and breeding was uncontrolled. 

My Molly is so beautiful, both parents are champions as are her sister and brother, but she will be spayed this month, as agreed. I'm happy just having people admire her and brag about her bloodline without her having puppies!

I wish that was always the case with all breeders of all breeds! The number of "rescue mutts" out there is evidence it doesn't happen enough. Where do they all come from and why would anyone willingly breed mutt to mutt when the puppies most likely will end up in rescue centers once they are not "cute" any more? 

A house a few streets from me has a new resident with two big ugly mutts they tie in their front yard (which is pretty "tacky"). They bark their heads off when we walk by. Yesterday one broke loose and came across the street at us. Fortunately, it seemed friendly enough and didn't attack. Why do people take in dogs like that - uncontrollable, ugly and loud! I'm carrying pepper spray from now on and walking only when they are at work so the dogs are in the house. If I ever see one loose again they will be getting a visit from animal control!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

SusanG you could show Molly in UKC conformation shows even with her having been spayed. Anyone can also show in performance sports like obedience, rally and agility in any show venue they want. Entry fees for AKC obedience and other performance events are generally around $30, plus hotels, gas etc. if you travel overnight.

I am sorry you got charged at while walking, but happy nothing bad happened.


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

I'd like to train her as a therapy dog so we can visit hospitals. She loves children and did very well when I brought her to a nursing home to visit my mother every week.
I need to find a good trainer in our area to help me with focus and self control. Molly has been more difficult to train than Callie. She needs to control her enthusiasm on a leash (wants to visit everyone she sees) and she is easily distracted. I'm hoping as she matures a little more she will be a bit more "focused". I broke my ankle last year, just at the time and age I would have been doing some dedicated training so I've been playing catch-up.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

How awful that your neighbor ties their dogs out front like that - unsafe for the dogs, and unsafe for the neighborhood!


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

Yeah, and this is a nice neighborhood. They moved in and the place has deteriorated. You can imagine what a front yard looks like after two big dogs have been tied out on clothesline runs and do nothing to keep the yard raked or seeded. They are gone all day, so I can't blame the dogs for being hyper, locked up and then thrown out the door. There is another one in the neighborhood with three dogs (one for each kid- ridiculous) Never in three years has one been taken for a walk. The big dog is kept in the garage, and barks. It just breaks my heart. I've come to the conclusion that 1/3 of the people who have dogs, shouldn't.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

SusanG I a gree with you that many people who have dogs shouldn't. I liked the idea that to get a dog a person would have to take training to get a license.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I think it is 50% of all those who have dogs should not - I once read that statistically 50% of all dogs do not live out their entire lives in their original home ?


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

Agreed. Anyone who doesn't absolutely love his dog, worry about it, and always make sure it is happy and healthy and consider him/her as part of the family shouldn't have one.
I like the idea of requiring training and a license before you even get the dog. So many people fall for the cute puppy, never thinking about the 15 year commitment they are making and the responsibility to train and care for an intelligent creature that totally depends upon you for its very existence, its comfort and companionship. 
Come to think about it, there are people who should get a license before they have a child too. lol


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

SusanG said:


> I'm just curious the difference in cost between buying a puppy with a conditional registration (spay or neuter agreement) from a champion show quality litter and one with full registration because of intention to breed and show.
> I noticed that many show dogs and bitches are co-owned so I'm wondering if that is because of the higher price for the dog, or because it costs so much time and money to maintain and show a dog.
> As I said, I'm just curious as to how that sort of thing works in the show world. Myself, I am not interested in breeding or showing and both my girls, although beautiful, are pets only.


A lot of breeders sell show prospects for the same amount as pets. The reason for co-ownership is often due to a requirement by the breeder that the owner co-own with them until the dog's championship is finished, or for the breeder to retain some control and breeding rights, or another arrangement to benefit both parties, or sometimes an arrangement between two owners who will split the costs, responsibilities, and rewards of showing, health testing, and breeding.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Most breeders will not sell a show/breeding dog outright. And I have heard of insanely high prices when/if they are. All breeding dogs sold by me are for the same price as my pet puppies, but I co-own the pups as long as they are being bred.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I also get the impression that it's relationships more often than money with breeders. As sidewinder mentioned there are important trust issues because reputations and breeding lines are at stake. How many show prospects can there be in one litter? One, two? Sometimes none? A judge in Poodle Variety magazine, who breeds very infrequently and selectively, was quoted as saying with any contemplated breeding he considers "What's in it for me?" I know he was not talking about money directly, but the chance to get that BIS dog, or maybe a pick puppy in the future. I have also read that there are very, very good Poodles in the show circuit and finishing a Poodle is not easy, nor cheap. Michael Gadsby, the rock star handler and breeder of my Poodle crush, Ricky, was discouraged from even going into Poodles because the field was so deep. Which as mentioned before is great for us pet Poodle owners, recipients of health-tested, well-put-together Poodles.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

SusanG said:


> Agreed. Anyone who doesn't absolutely love his dog, worry about it, and always make sure it is happy and healthy and consider him/her as part of the family shouldn't have one.
> I like the idea of requiring training and a license before you even get the dog. So many people fall for the cute puppy, never thinking about the 15 year commitment they are making and the responsibility to train and care for an intelligent creature that totally depends upon you for its very existence, its comfort and companionship.
> Come to think about it, there are people who should get a license before they have a child too. lol



Another reason other than the mill issue why I hate pet stores - they cater to impulse buyer who may have no clue what that cute little puppy may grow to be!


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## gr8pdls (Jul 13, 2010)

Mfmst said:


> I also get the impression that it's relationships more often than money with breeders. As sidewinder mentioned there are important trust issues because reputations and breeding lines are at stake.


I think that's it in a nutshell - for a reputable breeder it is not about the money. It is more about furthering one's idea of the perfect Poodle and how everything fits in with their program. Like Mille said, the cost of a show Poodle is the same as a pet Poodle - at least in my experience in the Midwest of USA. But also, I have gotten and have given away "show" Poodle puppy prospects with no money exchanged. Its all relationship and trust driven more than anything when talking about showing Poodles. 

Showing a Poodle to its CH is expensive so the initial cost of the puppy is really not that important in the overall picture. It's like the adage "If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it".

I'd stay away from a breeder that says $x for pet puppies and $y dollars for show puppies. It seems to me those breeders are looking to maximize their profits. The cost is the same whether the puppy from the same litter is designated as a pet or show puppy. And there's a very good case to be made that pet puppies are the most valuable.


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## West U (Jul 30, 2014)

It is not the cost of the dog that is the real expense. The cost to board, transport, handler costs, entree fees, transportation (by mile or air), etc add up. Politics involved with deciding which shows to enter, possibly paying to get to the show and scratch the entry because of various reasons are show by show decisions. The cost to handle a poodle's coat and grooming is another high dollar inestment. I have been down ths road before, and will probably go down it again.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Kind of like it is for a pet - it is not the initial cost that is so high, but the upkeep once you have them that costs a fortune ?


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

So true. I just bought the diamond blade you recommended! I've gone through 4 different clippers to find just the right one - the Wahl Arco - with the diamond blade. Now to send out the scissors and other blade for sharpening, etc. That's ok, they are worth it!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

SusanG said:


> So true. I just bought the diamond blade you recommended! I've gone through 4 different clippers to find just the right one - the Wahl Arco - with the diamond blade. Now to send out the scissors and other blade for sharpening, etc. That's ok, they are worth it!


That Diamond Switchblade is named well! It is a gem! What a lovely clean clip you get with that!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

SusanG said:


> So true. I just bought the diamond blade you recommended! I've gone through 4 different clippers to find just the right one - the Wahl Arco - with the diamond blade. Now to send out the scissors and other blade for sharpening, etc. That's ok, they are worth it!



I firmly believe that great grooming tools are completely worth it - they pay for themselves a thousand times over in skipped visits to the groomer!


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

When I am emailed asking for "Full Registration" somewhere in my reply will be the phrase "not for any amount of money."

I will also ask how the person inquiring is involved in the breed, what their goals and plans are for the puppy and for their bloodline.

Instead of just answering "not for any amount of money" I've found asking about the goals and plans and dreams for the puppy with "Full Registration" offers the opportunity to educate (I hope - or maybe it's pretend). Some I will hear back from, some just go away.

On rare occasion, I do get a reply and it's an opportunity to mentor. 

Co-owns outline what is expected of each party. It allows the breeder to maintain control and offer guidance. It ensures the co-owner is as dedicated to the puppy as the owner/breeder is (or perhaps dedicated to their new line). 

SADLY, many co-owns do not work out. But there are co-owns that do work out, and they tend to make the others worth it.

As for the cost of a show puppy - that depends. It can be no fee and puppy back, it can be steep fee and puppy back, it can be neither or even more. It's up to the breeder and is affected by the breeders investment and often the puppy itself.

Not sure at all if any of that helped clarify - ha! :alberteinstein:

Basically, there is not a set "co-own". It is going to differ from breeder to breeder. One big factor though, is that if you have "proven yourself" or have a "track record" your co - own will be more favorable as you will have proven you are up to the task of showing/titling a pup.

Regards,

Tabatha
NOLA Standards


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

Thanks Nola. I got my answer and learned a lot from all the wonderful responses. I guess I never thought about it before, but then I read Berensen's book "A Pedigree to Die For" and wondered how it all worked. 
I am grateful all you breeders are so careful because it has brought the poodle breed back from the indiscriminate breeding of the 60's and 70's! And the result is my beautiful Callie and Molly, so people turn their heads when we walk by. (They don't know they are just as beautiful on the inside and so loveable I can't describe!) Molly is scheduled to be spayed on Wed (boo hoo - I'm sick about it - won't breathe until they call me and tell me she is ok - and because she is going to be so sad and confused when I leave her at the vet. She has never been away from us with strangers. Necessary, but my poor baby won't understand!


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## kjgendreau (Oct 20, 2015)

NOLA Standards said:


> When I am emailed asking for "Full Registration" somewhere in my reply will be the phrase "not for any amount of money."
> 
> I will also ask how the person inquiring is involved in the breed, what their goals and plans are for the puppy and for their bloodline.
> 
> ...


When I was looking for a standard boy for show, I reached out to someone I knew from when we were kids (my mom had standards, and she was showing a standard in Juniors). She had a litter at the time, but all puppies were spoken for (she kept two for herself). But she said if I wanted to help her out at shows, I was more then welcome to. The time passed, her cream puppy boy finished his CH and he was semi-retired to grow coat and grow up. I still hung out at the shows and helped her whenever she needed. I had always said to her I was absolutely not interested in getting into the breeding side of things (was exposed to that with my mom's kennel, and decided it wasn't for me), I just liked going to dog shows, and standard poodles are my heart breed. When her cream boy was about 18 months old, my mentor offered me him a co-ownership, and I jumped at the chance. I finished growing his coat then finished his GCH as a novice owner handler. He is now my much-spoiled pet and is learning fun new things like rally, obedience, and his obsession, disc dog. My mentor is responsible for all costs and decisions relating to him as a breeding animal, and I am responsible for the "pet dog" stuff. Thanks to this co-ownership agreement, I made a good friend and have a gorgeous companion. Wins for all. Co-ownership agreements can work.


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