# Informal survey: Do breeders ask for references?



## Panamint Daisy (Oct 15, 2020)

This topic came up between a friend of mine and me -- I am on a waitlist for a litter that has just arrived, and my breeder asked for references. My friend, who is listed as a reference, got a poodle last spring from a different breeder who did NOT require references, and told me she thinks it's nuts that breeders would require references. I said I thought it was fairly common. So here's my attempt to determine just how common it is. What has been your experience with providing references (or requiring references, if you are a breeder)?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

two differnt breeders neither asked for references.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Galen's breeder required vet references. 

I can't remember if Pogo's breeder did. However, she was a horse person, so she asked me a few insightful questions about horse handling. I think if I had answered wrong about the way I was treating my horses I would never have got one of her dogs.

It seems like increasing numbers of breeders are aligning their purchase process with what rescues are doing with adoptions.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

I found the reference thing mildly hilarious. All the breeders I looked at said they wanted references. Fine. I have never yet had a job call references. Only once had a landlord call my references. No one has ever phoned my references for my passport applications or various security clearances for work. I used one of the same people I use for security clearance type stuff on my puppy application and was like "hey, if someone calls, say nice things, please". Its so normal for me to use him as a reference, he didn't even bother asking what it was about (I'd intended to surprise him with the puppy). 

My breeder called ALL my references, and was a bit hesitant to give me the dog because she couldn't get a hold of the vet because it was a Saturday and they were closed, and said that she intended to call the vet again after I got the puppy (no idea if she did or not). 

So yeah - my breeder asked for references, and I found it kinda crazy.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

No, but I have no doubt she would have asked for references and then called them if we hadn’t answered her questions to her satisfaction but were still in a gray area. The first time my husband called her, they talked for 2 hours.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Mine asked for references both personal and vet but I am sure the personals were not called. Didn't bother me. I have to give references to rent an apartment, why not to buy a dog?


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## Elizabeth (Aug 27, 2012)

I have filled out applications that asked for references but was not asked for references by the two breeders I actually worked with. I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to get a dog from a good breeder without animal-related references, but I was.


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

From what I've seen scanning through puppy applications personal references aren't too terribly common, but they do like you to have a vet they can call. My wild assumption is that the application process is usually super in depth so they don't feel the need/don't think about it. Wouldn't be surprised if the breeder did ask for references, though.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

We've never been asked. But the poodle breeder did tell us that he was refusing to send a dog by air w/o an escort. So he was trying to do right by his dogs.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

I wasn't asked (10 years ago, so YMMV). But I know of a breeder who not only asked for references, but also had an assigned reading list for prospective owners.

TBH, the reading list was kind of thoughtful - Jean Donaldson, Patricia McConnell, Ian Dunbar, etc.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Contract and application, yes. References, no.


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## ThePoodlesMoody (Nov 2, 2020)

Yes! I spoke with three breeders, two asked for personal references and all three asked for vet.


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## codys_mom (Jul 22, 2020)

My breeder did not ask for references, but I had sent a letter that she loved (all about us and why we want a spoo etc), and then we talked for an hour on the phone and had a great conversation. I was in touch with two other breeders who had potential availability, and I think that one of them reserved the right to ask for references (but we never got that far with them, since we found a breeder who was accepting deposits).

She did ask for vet and groomer contact info. I don't think she called either, I think more just to make sure we'd thought about it? Not sure.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

No references; we had texted, then a phone call, then in person.


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## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

Clarion required 6 references. It makes sense to me, at least she didn’t do a credit check lol


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

When I got Bella 3 years ago, her breeder didn't ask for these, but she talked with me in person for nearly two hours; part of the reason was we enjoyed our conversation so much. I later got Sachii from her too. We still talk sometimes.

Also many years earlier I had gotten a poodle pup from a breeder she's good friends with, so this made it an easy decision for her. I doubt that she would have asked for references; her style was spend a lot of time talking on the phone then in person with potential buyers and most of these comes from people she knows personally.

My brother recently bought a West Highland Terrier from a breeder. This lady had been breeding and used to do shows for 30 years and had her dogs happily running around in her house. He talked her on the phone, then he and his wife drove pretty far the next day to meet her and the puppy, and got him that day. No references needed.


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## scooterscout99 (Dec 3, 2015)

Yes, all of the breeders that I contacted had reference requirements on their puppy applications, usually a groomer, vet and/or trainer. I strongly support this. If they were my puppies, I'd be very picky about the homes that they went to. Having the money to spend on a dog doesn't make one qualified to care for one. (Many breed rescues take it a step further and conduct home visits before placing a dog.)

I'm a long time foster home for a local shelter and feel the same concern for the future homes of my charges, who ended up in a shelter because of unthinking humans. Even the best intentioned owner may not be aware of the depth of responsibility, or up to the task, of life-long responsibility for a dog.


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## Newport (Jul 16, 2014)

@Phaz23 I have heard of Clarion’s extensive references request. I’ve also heard that they DO call them. That’s a lot of references for an introvert to come up with, so I figure they mostly sell to extroverts or people with big families 😄


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## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

Newport said:


> @Phaz23 I have heard of Clarion’s extensive references request. I’ve also heard that they DO call them. That’s a lot of references for an introvert to come up with, so I figure they mostly sell to extroverts or people with big families 😄


Lol well Im an introvert and used a combination of family, co-workers, and professors that Im close to, it wasn’t too hard, just a little awkward to ask lol


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## Elizabeth (Aug 27, 2012)

I totally get why they want references and respect that, but if you've never had a pet before, it's a problem.


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

Gracie’s Breeder did not ask for references and prefers to talk to people instead to get a feel for them. I appreciated that. When I hire people, HR calls references but it’s after all the interviews, and the choice has been made. It’s a last confirmatory step. There’s a lot to be said for gut feelings.

I am sure good breeders agonize over these decisions, and I can’t imagine how hard it is when it doesn’t turn out well. I think most breeders have a story of a bad placement. Here is a story on Gracie’s breeder’s Website. My trainer, who breeds Aussies, just told me an agonizing tale of letting a puppy go and having to re- possess the puppy as an adult dog, after much damage had been done. It must be heartbreaking.

When I volunteered in rescue, we called references but it didn’t paint the whole picture. I saw a decision made to not adopt a dog to someone whose elderly cat had not received vaccines recently. This person looked good on all other counts. I also advocated for not adopting to someone who looked great on paper, but refused to hold the small dog and brushed the dog away when it tried to jump on her lap. The organization honored my worry and did not adopt to her, and I think that was the right choice.

No easy answers, people are unpredictable and sometimes lie.


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## NaturalPoodle (Jun 13, 2019)

Elizabeth said:


> I totally get why they want references and respect that, but if you've never had a pet before, it's a problem.


This is something I've been a bit concerned about for if/when I'm ready for a poodle, as I don't have a vet or trainer reference. My last dog was a family dog and although I was very involved in that dog's life, it was my parents who took him to the vet and I was moved out the last several years of his life (he was 16 when he passed a few years ago. Not bad for a bigger dog!)

What does someone like me do? I suppose it's up to the breeder's discretion based on other info... 

And of course fortunately not all require these references, I've just noticed some from my shortlist do


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## NaturalPoodle (Jun 13, 2019)

And of course I understand why breeders ask for these references, I would do the same. But also look at the whole picture if someone didn't have a vet ref.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

NaturalPoodle said:


> This is something I've been a bit concerned about for if/when I'm ready for a poodle, as I don't have a vet or trainer reference. My last dog was a family dog and although I was very involved in that dog's life, it was my parents who took him to the vet and I was moved out the last several years of his life (he was 16 when he passed a few years ago. Not bad for a bigger dog!)
> 
> What does someone like me do? I suppose it's up to the breeder's discretion based on other info...
> 
> And of course fortunately not all require these references, I've just noticed some from my shortlist do


I haven’t been in that situation, but I would be prepared. Do you have a vet in mind? If so, go ahead and say something like, “I’m planning to use ABC because blah blah blah.” If not, it’s probably best to do your research and pick your vet before you call the breeder the first time.


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## Elizabeth (Aug 27, 2012)

In the end, all we needed to do was to be reasonable people with the ability to provide a stable home for a puppy and to have conducted research in advance on how to do so. I had read that Rescue requirements could be extensive and feared that breeders might expect the same, but I found that not to be the case. The ones I communicated with just wanted to know they were placing their pups in good hands.


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## NaturalPoodle (Jun 13, 2019)

Starla said:


> I haven’t been in that situation, but I would be prepared. Do you have a vet in mind? If so, go ahead and say something like, “I’m planning to use ABC because blah blah blah.” If not, it’s probably best to do your research and pick your vet before you call the breeder the first time.


Good idea Starla, that's what I would do as well.


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## scooterscout99 (Dec 3, 2015)

It's a good idea to research vets ahead of time for your own peace of mind, as the initial puppy exam is usually within 3 days of bringing a new dog home. How do you feel about vaccines (Dr. Dodds' delayed vaccine protocol? Titers when available?) Are you interested in a veterinary practice that also provides boarding service? Is the practice large enough that there will be a back-up vet available? Is there emergency service?

Same for groomers. I didn't have a poodle so had no knowledge/experience with local groomers. I asked around and spoke with the best, who said she wasn't taking on any poodle clients. But she referred me to someone else who was. Now I'm grooming myself (after 1.5 years of professional grooming), and that's what I tell breeders. With the amount of work (and/or money involved), it's a logical question for a breeder to ask.

I've also had phone calls with several breeders that I didn't ultimately obtain dogs from. Really nice conversations! TBH, I rarely follow up on references with employees that I hire (because they come referred from reliable sources!). Maybe it's a good back-up plan for breeders, to refer to if they have any doubts.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I think it’s fair for a breeder to ask for references. Could I get six references for a Clarion Poodle? (Yes) Does that number seem ridiculous? (Yes.) My breeder worked with one of my best friends, but she never checked with her. Maybe she Googled my address, maybe our interactions were enough. I was approved by an elite breeder in another breed because my previous dogs lived so long. I’ve approached the whole process as being a serious, qualified buyer. The breeder can also check the buyer out, too. It doesn’t have to be insulting/ ridiculous o either side.


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## farleysd (Apr 18, 2011)

I do ask for references on my puppy application. You would be very surprised how many times I have called references and they have told me NOT to sell the person a puppy, and why. I think it is reasonable to ask for references, I know our local shelters ask for them as well.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

farleysd said:


> I do ask for references on my puppy application. You would be very surprised how many times I have called references and they have told me NOT to sell the person a puppy, and why. I think it is reasonable to ask for references, I know our local shelters ask for them as well.


That's crazy! I'd have thought people wouldn't give references that would say bad things about them. I guess there are a lot of people who hide their feelings.


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## farleysd (Apr 18, 2011)

Raindrops said:


> That's crazy! I'd have thought people wouldn't give references that would say bad things about them. I guess there are a lot of people who hide their feelings.


You would be surprised what people will tell on other people! LOL


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

Interesting! I've had to sign contracts, but I don't recall sending references to breeders, just to rescues and shelters. 

For Neely, I was already friends with his breeder's mother through obedience competition. It was the mom who twisted my arm for me to get the puppy she thought would be the best obedience prospect.  

For Hobbes, the breeder and I didn't already know each other, but we had acquaintances in common through UKC's poodle organization. It didn't hurt, of course, that by the time I became interested in her puppy, Neely's accomplishments were available to see on Facebook (more than 70 performance titles). We've hit it off since then and she's Hobbes co-owner, which gives me peace of mind if something happens and I'm not able to care for him. 

We had a chance to chat at shows recently. I said I couldn't understand why he was still available when I got him at the age of 4 months. She said she had had some people interested in him but she didn't feel they were a good fit for him. She kept two of his sisters, who are already UKC grand champions - Hobbes needs another win to become a champion, but he's ahead of his sisters with three performance titles and a rally High in Trial ribbon.


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

Panamint Daisy said:


> This topic came up between a friend of mine and me -- I am on a waitlist for a litter that has just arrived, and my breeder asked for references. My friend, who is listed as a reference, got a poodle last spring from a different breeder who did NOT require references, and told me she thinks it's nuts that breeders would require references. I said I thought it was fairly common. So here's my attempt to determine just how common it is. What has been your experience with providing references (or requiring references, if you are a breeder)?


I didn't breed without a wait list. Anyone who landed on the wait list were from friends who could provide verifiable references. If an entire family was referred, I met with them (interviewed) to see the pups with no guarantee of them getting a pup. The family unit is a big tell. It worked better than referrals. You can see the dynamic that says this pup will be family. They would be the best testimonials later too. It is quite common now. It is just prudent to interview and check if there are potential nightmares lurking.


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## Panamint Daisy (Oct 15, 2020)

Jilly SummerSunset said:


> I didn't breed without a wait list. Anyone who landed on the wait list were from friends who could provide verifiable references. If an entire family was referred, I met with them (interviewed) to see the pups with no guarantee of them getting a pup. The family unit is a big tell. It worked better than referrals. You can see the dynamic that says this pup will be family. They would be the best testimonials later too. It is quite common now. It is just prudent to interview and check if there are potential nightmares lurking.


When you say you met the family unit, that means you would meet the entire household that the dog would be placed with? For example, a couple, or parents and their children, etc? As opposed to just one person interested in the pup?

We began our search for a breeder in earnest in early August of this year, contacted 5 breeders and had extended conversations with 3. I really clicked with one particular breeder, and my husband, daughter, and I went to visit her in late August, saw her home where her pups are raised, and met 3 of her standards, one of whom was to be the mother of her upcoming litter. I really liked her and her dogs, and so we then asked to be put on a waitlist for one of her pups. After a litter was on the ground, she checked up 3 or 4 references of ours and recently informed us we've been approved to have one of her pups, which is very exciting. While I was surprised as a newcomer to the world of dog breeding that references were required for some breeders, it gives me peace of mind to know that these breeders care so much about their dogs.


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

Jilly SummerSunset said:


> I didn't breed without a wait list. Anyone who landed on the wait list were from friends who could provide verifiable references. If an entire family was referred, I met with them (interviewed) to see the pups with no guarantee of them getting a pup. The family unit is a big tell. It worked better than referrals. You can see the dynamic that says this pup will be family. They would be the best testimonials later too. It is quite common now. It is just prudent to interview and check if there are potential nightmares lurking.


That sounds very sensible and successful. I have said, not entirely in jest, that a couple should prove they can raise and train a well-behaved dog before being allowed to have children. Perhaps the reverse might be true.


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

mvhplank said:


> That sounds very sensible and successful. I have said, not entirely in jest, that a couple should prove they can raise and train a well-behaved dog before being allowed to have children. Perhaps the reverse might be true.


A single person has the same requirements and maybe more to prove, how much alone time will there be. I know what it takes, but do you?, because it is a small community in a family environment. I found that seeing the family interact speaks volumes. Is Dad hands off, is Mom on board, are the kids disciplined and humble. Do they understand the work involved in raising a blank slate? Pups don't raise themselves. They don't know that shoes aren't for chewing. That common things we take for granted can kill them. If the kids are respectful, there is a good chance this is a good home. And knowing the value of a dollar speaks loudly when mom and dad are telling them they are sacrificing a vacation maybe, to get the first family pet. As a breeder you do need people reading skills. Afterall, breeders work 24/7 for the minimum of 8 weeks raising these precious gifts. And some work full time as well. I did. If pups are raised in your living space, why take chances bringing in folks who aren't vetted in some way, to where you live? Hope this long winded info share helps. 😊


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

Excellent, well-thought-out answer, Jilly. Not long-winded at all - just enough wind, I think.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Definitely references, yes.


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