# Warning: This might give you nightmares



## LEUllman

I saw this link at the bottom of the forum, I guess it's a feed from Google Ad Sense. I had to click it and see.  :frusty:

Lawpdoodlekennels


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## Countryboy

Well not really a nightmare. lol A bit of a headache, maybe.

Unless I want a cute, cuddly Sheepadoodle.


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## papoodles

*I got a migraine-*

When I read their mission statement:
"It is a 'business' with extremely high overhead.."
I would RUN...


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## LEUllman

Countryboy said:


> Well not really a nightmare. lol A bit of a headache, maybe.


As a poodle fan _and_ a web designer by trade, I think I now have PTSD. :afraid:


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

Well, I know for a fact their frigging labradoodles are NOT CKC registered (unless they mean the Continental Kennel Club). Yes, there should be a warning: DO NOT VIEW WITHOUT SUNGLASSES SAFELY AND ENTIRELY IN USE!


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## frostfirestandards

Oh sweet Jesus I think I had a siezure...


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## itzfoxfire58

when I dropped my dog off at the groomer's, I actually had a conversation with lady who dropped her dog off for grooming and she said you Poodle is really pretty, I'm thinking about getting a labadoddle. Maybe I should give her this site. LOL


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## apriljean80

I think I am in system overload


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## lavillerose

Think that's bad? I have a Newfie-doodle breeder in my area, and have already seen two of their dogs in my groom shop. One of which had a 12 inches of totally matted hair, never been groomed and the owners wanted to keep it that way (to which I said #7 strip down).

You know, because Goldendoodles aren't bad enough, they need to be 120lbs and drooly too.

This is why we can't have nice things. :alberteinstein:


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## katbrat

What's with charging a "boarding fee" of $50.00 a week after eight weeks and a 26 month health guarantee? The pink print everywhere was horrible!


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## Quossum

Meet the Aussiedoodle! (Be sure to scroll down for the pics!)

--Q


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## FunkyPuppy

Those aren't even cute.


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## LEUllman

Now those are some sad, unfortunate looking dogs. And what is it with these people and their gawd-awful websites? I think my eyes are bleeding!


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## 3dogs

So what is up with that Lawpdoodle website. What is up with breeding the males at under 18 months. The are just pups still & yet feel the need to just use what they have at an early age to pump out puppies. I find it interesting how they don't consider themselves a PM. I only saw some pre lim health on the OES & it said that he had Passed OFA with a Fair rating, Prelim. This dog was born in March of 2010. SPoo sire also was born in 2010 & already siring a litter. Yikes!!!!


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## CT Girl

The Aussiedoodles look like they belong in a zombie movie - scary! How nice that the Lawpdoodle breeder does health testing. Too bad they don't wait to actually get the results before they start breeding these underage dogs.


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## spoospirit

_That was overwhelming!! And, some of those ausiedoodles are just plain homely. _

_I had to read a few times the part about how this apparently saved their marriage. _

_They have so many dogs that they cannot possibly give them all quality time. It's nice that they have a facility they built for them, but what good does this do for all of those dogs? And, so many being bred underage and some with fair hips!!_

_This woman is obviously a Christian by the icons on her page and some of the comments she makes. I wonder how she justifies a program like that. _

_It's just too sad for all involved._


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## LEUllman

I love that Lawpdoodle has a political litmus test. You either agree with their opinion about a highly charged political statement, or don't come 'round here. Oh well, at least Democrats will be spared from owning one of their "designer dogs."


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## PoodlePowerBC

LEUllman said:


> I saw this link at the bottom of the forum, I guess it's a feed from Google Ad Sense. I had to click it and see.  :frusty:
> 
> Lawpdoodlekennels


I've seen that ad here as well! My son is a web developer and this just makes him gag :2in1: , never mind their doodle breeding!


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## lawpoodle08

Cool it. All of you. Sad situation when all you all have time to do is sit around bashing someone without facts. First of all....I DO NOT BREED AUSSIEDOODLES... so where that came from, I don't have a clue? Evidence you all don't check facts before posting. Although, Aussiedoodles are a great breed. I happen to love and respect the Standard Poodle, and pride myself on breeding healthy, loving puppies, Poodles or Doodles, and have a long track record of references to prove it. Another fact, read about YOUR breed. "Many breed historians purport that, as far back as the first century, the Poodle was created by blending the white Maltese dog and the Spanish dog known as the Spaniel", ref. Poodle, A Kennel Club Book. Ummm...does that mean the Poodle was a "mutt" once? History of all "purebreds" are suspected of being created by several breeds. 1000 years ago or 20 years ago, new breeds are created every day to create a wonderful "dog". AKC introduces a new breed or more each and every year. I helped to "fix" an AKC Registered Standard Poodle's registration that had the "wrong" sire noted. I wonder how many other AKC dogs are out there with the wrong pedigree?.....thousands..don't fool yourself. It is easy to do, and done all the time for the sake of the all mighty dollar! We maintain pedigrees on all of our Poodles and Doodles...or at least, what we believe to be their true pedigree based on the information provided to us. Try this link on for size, and we will discuss your issues further..... The Purebred Paradox : The Humane Society of the United States Oh...and as for my website? It is ALL ME! The fact that my family and I are truly reflected in my website instead of fancy, cold, crisp "professionalism" from a Professional Web Designer is what draws and keeps drawing people to my website. Except for you people, I receive compliments on my website, especially from my puppy families...ALL THE TIME! And...they keep coming back...so there! If it ain't broke....I won't fix it!


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## FunkyPuppy

*looks at Bonzai* so, she's a malti-spaniel, huh? Funny, i just dont see how a standard poodle came from a maltese. Must've been one DETERMINED little male.

Did i step in poop or does anyone else smell bullsh*t?


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## Keithsomething

Lawpoodle...if you were trying to create a breed you would be, there are several breeds right now that are attempting to be created they made crosses like you have done but stayed true TO THOSE CROSSES when you ONLY breed a lab to a poodle and call it a "new" breed you're wrong...

I truly hope that when people google your "kennel" name that this forum pops up as the forerunner because I would hate to see potential buyers duped by someone that clearly has no idea what they're doing...


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## Countryboy

I will make no argument with breeding practises. I don't breed.

But I do take exception to the mention of the Humane Society of the United States as an authourity on *anything*. 

The HSUS is the most bogus 'animal protection 'society' around. Look for their links, people. They are associated with *no* other reputable groups. Not Earthwatch, not Greenpeace . . and not with any other legitimate humane societies in the United States. 

They are strictly a money-making company.


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## PoodlePowerBC

*Original Labradoodle breeder regrets his role in 'designer dog' craze*

"-- The man who bred a poodle with a Labrador retriever and called the resulting puppies Labradoodles now says he regrets his role in starting today's "designer dog" craze that includes Labradoodles, goldendoodles, puggles, Cavachons and other often highly-priced hybrids. Wally Conran, now 81, bred his first Labradoodle litter in 1988, when he was employed as the manager of the Royal Institute of the Blind's puppy program. When a client expressed a desire for a leader dog but was concerned about aggravating her husband's dog allergy, Conran decided to breed puppies that retained many of the behavioral traits of a Labrador but had the shed-free coat of a poodle. The rest, of course, is history. "But now when people ask me, 'Did you breed the first one?' I have to say, 'Yes, I did, but it's not something I'm proud of,' " Conran said. "I wish I could turn the clock back." Many members of the pet-rescue community share that sentiment." (The Australian)

What does this say???


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## 3dogs

I don't think that "Conran" has anything to be ashamed about. He did start with a real purpose to mix 2 fantastic breeds for a specific purpose. Just because the greedy came across this & then began to breed what ever came across their doorstep & throw them in together then SHAME on them. I have no problems with working on a "new" breed IF there is a clear purpose, breed standard & a dedication to working on the ultimate. If anyone reads about the Argintine Dogo you will see that the brothers had a clear goal to produce a fantastic hunting dog to go after the "big cats" of their country. Mixing through generations a good 9 different breeds to constantly tweek what they were looking for. This took a number of years, death of a brother & now the Argintine Dogo & fantastic dog breeding true BUT does have health issues like Deafness. I highly respect this goal & dedication to create what their vision & niche to hunt the "big cats". 

I however DO NOT find this dedication in this day & age of America of working on a "new" breed. What is the PURPOSE of a Doodle dog, Shih poo, westie poo, cavachon, puggle, bug, shepadoodle, cockapoo etc..... there is NO PURPOSE except to create more dogs for the ulmighty $$$. Sad, Sad, Sad

Yes, the Purebreeds of today were once all mutts. Mixed about BUT back in the day for a reason. To create a dog that fit the job at hand. Whether a retriever, working the environment, rodent hunters, truffle hunters, boar hunters, herding, protecting flocks, meat dogs, fur dogs, THERE was a PURPOSE.


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## lawpoodle08

*Breeding Designer Dogs*

First of all, I AM NOT creating a new breed. We are experienced and dedicated breeders of 3 established types of Designer Dogs, including the Sheepadoodle..."newer", but highly sought after for their beautiful coats and wonderful temperaments. Second, I don't condone everything that The Human Society represents either. Few of these organizations are doing all they should or following their original Mission Statement, and like anything else, politics and money have soured their original goals. However, do you really think AKC and other high-end registries are out there protecting your breed and not in it for the almighty dollar, too? Look further into that article I linked. There is noted a statement from an AKC Board Member during a Board Meeting where the topic of cracking down on REAL Puppy Mills was discussed. That Board Member squashed the idea for fear it may hurt their Registration Revenue, as that is the largest percentage of their annual revenue. REALLY? It's not about the welfare of the dogs...just the almighty dollar...with even organizations you think you stand behind and respect! Nothing is as perfect as it seems, and sometimes worse. Each of us has our opinions and we are entitled to them. However, it does not make any of us RIGHT or justify being critical of the decisions of others. Oh...by the way. I heard it rumored that AKC is looking into a way to "tap" into the Doodle market. Far be it for them to pass up a revenue opportunity! Guess if you can't beat them, you might as well join them! It's only a matter of time...just like all the other breeds out there. And Doodles do have a Purpose! Besides being the ultimate family pet, they have been quickly building the reputation of being one of the best/trainable Service Dogs, and allergy friendly, too. The Poodle part....makes them really, really smart. Take it as a compliment that the Poodle seems to be the primary ingredient to the most popular Designer Dogs!


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## whitepoodles

*Take it as a compliment that the Poodle seems to be the primary ingredient to the most popular Designer Dogs![/QUOTE]*


Lawpoodle08:

As a long time standard poodle breeder exhibitor and VERY MUCH a supporter of PURIST breeders I am taking offence to your last comment that we should take it as a compliment you and others in your "class of breeder ??" are incorporating our CHOSEN breed to cross breed with YOUR MUTS in order to produce more designer dogs who by the way are littering the SPCA and numerous rescue organization as a result of the LACK OF AFORETHOUGHT NOT TO MENTION LACK OF KNOWLEDGE YOU DEMONSTRATE BOTH IN YOUR BREEDING PRACTICES AND ON THIS FORUM PAGES WHICH ARE GEARED TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC NOT MAKE THEM BELIEVE THAT YOUR PRACTICES ARE THE NORM.

Shame on you and your kind for misleading the public into believing in your modus operandi and breeding practices are correct.. They are FAR FROM IT !!!!

You are very fortunate that there are many UNEDUCATED , UNSAVVY and UNINFORMED consumers out there who still buy your B......T (yes I did smell it by the way  and give breeders such as yourself a dime for your CREATIONS who no doubt have been bred without any genetic testing whatsoever and I DOUBT that OFA even has one dog of yours registered with them.

We have enough problems in standard poodles as it is to NOT have someone like yourself add to the already existing issues that numerous ethical and concerned breeders are trying so desperately to erradicate from the standard poodle variety. Do you even know WHAT THESE ARE??? I doubt you do !!

You will do everyone INCLUDING THESE POOR POODLES a great favor and close up shop or start ethically breeding purebreds. 

Lastly, have you even read the article that the person who created/promoted the launch of the golden and labradoodle wrote and submitted to Poodle Variety Magazine. Are you even aware OR CARE that he is deeply sorry for the fad he had created which was created with a thought in mind and a purpose, but which breeders like yourself took advantage off to put food on YOUR table at the expense of OUR beloved breed.

You can give me or anyone on this forum your so called B/S reasons for breeding these MUTS, and maybe you can pull the wool over the unsavvy uneducated eyes, however you are NOT pulling the wool on anyone's eyes here on this forum

We KNOW YOUR KIND and we do NOT take kindly to you or your practices.

And.. LOLOLOL ROFLBO... ALLERGY FRIENDLY you say???? Have you no idea how many golden and labradoodles end up in rescue organization and SPCA strictly because MANY DO SHED like the labrador or goldie that they were mixed with.

You have just shown your ignorance to everyone on this forum..

As I said.. SHAME ON YOU!!


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## faerie

designer dogs = expensive mutts.
when i see an oodle i say "oh a poodle mix!"

i have a labrador hound mix. she's a houndrador.
had a labrador rottweiller mix. he was my rottdor or was that labweiller?

pitt bull and poodle? poobull or piddle?
****zu and bull dog? bull****z


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## FunkyPuppy

Whitepoodle, i've always liked you, but after a response like that i am one of your biggest fans.

A toast to ETHICAL and EDUCATED breeders who want nothing more than to bring excellent dogs of sound body, mind and temperament into the world. And SHAME on disgusting mills for breeding to supply the public's demands and whims! Sheepadoodles... pathetic!!!


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## whitepoodles

*


faerie said:



designer dogs = expensive mutts.
when i see an oodle i say "oh a poodle mix!"

i have a labrador hound mix. she's a houndrador.
had a labrador rottweiller mix. he was my rottdor or was that labweiller?

pitt bull and poodle? poobull or piddle?
****zu and bull dog? bull****z 

Click to expand...

Faerie:*Since you seem to have ended with several mixed breeds, I sure HOPE that you have not acquired them from such breeders as Lawpoodle08, but INFACT RESCUED them all..

Rescuing these poor muts...... I would encourage and stand by, but, alas.... *NOT* knowingly purchasing them from the breeders such as the aforementioned, who are creating them strictly to put food on the table and $$$$ into their pockets.


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## spoowhisperer

whitepoodles said:


> *
> 
> Faerie:*Since you seem to have ended with several mixed breeds, I sure HOPE that you have not acquired them from such breeders as Lawpoodle08, but INFACT RESCUED them all..
> 
> Rescuing these poor muts...... I would encourage and stand by, but, alas.... *NOT* knowingly purchasing them from the breeders such as the aforementioned, who are creating them strictly to put food on the table and $$$$ into their pockets.


I doubt very very much that it was her intent to purchase from a breeder, but more to give a dog a home that needed one. Not her point to encourage and support this type of breeding.

For me, I would most definitely adopt a mix from a shelter. They need homes too! However I would never ever purchase from a breeder. To think that they feel they are creating designer breeds, turns my stomach. Totally irresponsible, only thinking about the money.


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## whitepoodles

[*QUOTE=FunkyPuppy;178657]Whitepoodle, i've always liked you, but after a response like that i am one of your biggest fans.*
A toast to ETHICAL and EDUCATED breeders who want nothing more than to bring excellent dogs of sound body, mind and temperament into the world. And SHAME on disgusting mills for breeding to supply the public's demands and whims! Sheepadoodles... pathetic!!![/QUOTE]


FunkyPuppy:

Our dogs do NOT have a voice. As such we are their voices, we speak for them, we protect them, we are their ambassadores, and we ethically endeavor to lead the breed into the right direction at least most of us do, and we try to prevent them from ending in such mills or breeding establishments such as the one operated by Lawpoodle08 AND SADLY MANY MANY LIKE HER !!

I must add here though, that I do NOT entirely blame LawPoodle08 for her practices. WE ARE ALSO AT FAULT, or at least SOME OF US who sell their breeding stock on open trems while fully knowing that if we do so we do take a chance that our well bred dogs CAN AND WILL be bred from by unscrupoulos buyers who pretend to NEVER want to breed but Fifi next door, and alas be it a lab would make such wonderful pet and Oh YAY can be used as a guide /service dog.

It is breeders out there who sell on OPEN terms without any consideration for the breed and its future that give the opportunity and open the door for unscrupoulos breeding practices by such as Lawpoodle08 and other substandard breeders out there to whom cash is more important than the welfare of the dog.

So, it is not entirely the fault of such mix and match breeders out there because it does in fact start with the PUREbred poodle who is sold on open terms to the FAD breeder so we have to clean up the act of the purebred poodle and implement the non breeding spay/neuter contract and limited registration in order to try and prevent from breeders such as LawPoodle08 from mushrooming all over the hemisphere !!!

I NEVER sell any of my dogs on open terms.. and my sale's contract clearly stipualtes that IF the owner does not neuter or spay their dog by (latest) 10 mos. old and provides me the neuter/spay certificate signed by their vet, and I mean the ORIGINAL signature on the vet's original letterhead that the puppy WILL be taken away from them and no refund in whole or in full will be reimbursed them.

In the 16 years of breeding my standards I have YET to have a client renege on their sale's contract and their signed promiss not to breed from my dogs and since I keep contact with most of my clients I am privy to know what is going on, both with the dog's lifestyle as well as health.

So bottom line is.. It must start with the standard poodle breeder and to WHOM they sell their puppy and under what sale's conditions.. if it is a strong contract binding and one which will be upheld in a court of law and if the breeder cares enough about the puppies they sell to ask the owner to supply them with a vet letter and signature that the bitch was spayed and dog neutered than they have nothing to worry about breeders such as LawPoodle08 ever getting their COMMERCIAL HANDS on our dogs !!

Start with the purebred breeder FIRST... NOT the mixed breed establishments and you will see a huge difference and decline in the breeding practices of mixed breed.


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## whitepoodles

spoowhisperer said:


> *I doubt very very much that it was her intent to purchase from a breeder, but more to give a dog a home that needed one. Not her point to encourage and support this type of breeding.*
> For me, I would most definitely adopt a mix from a shelter. They need homes too! However I would never ever purchase from a breeder. To think that they feel they are creating designer breeds, turns my stomach. Totally irresponsible, only thinking about the money.


Spoowhispere:

You have completely misunderstood what my comment to Faeri meant.

Actually since I do have respect for Faeri's intelligence as I have read numerous of her post and know how she thinks about breeders etc... I have no doubt that she infact did rescue her mixed breed companion and did not purchase them. My comment was to reiterate that I HOPE that they are from rescues and not from breeders such as Lawpoodle08 and In NO WAY did I mean that Faerie may have purchased hers from such breeders.

As you know when you are only responding but not face to face with a person the meaning in some posts can be taken actually very differently.


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## lavillerose

lawpoodle08 said:


> First of all, I AM NOT creating a new breed. ....Oh...by the way. I heard it rumored that AKC is looking into a way to "tap" into the Doodle market.


You're right, you aren't. By definition, a breed of anything (dog, horse, cow, etc) is a set type that breeds true for at least four generations. Absolutely NONE of the poodle mixes on the market have been able to do that. Including cockerpoos, which have been around since at least the 60's. If they can't establish type, they will never be a breed. F1's look nothing like F2's and F3's are even worse. They can't establish type because none of you "breeders" out there care about doing so, all you care about is your "business with it's extremely high overhead". Reputable breeders don't make money off breeding and showing their dogs. Health testing, veterinary, show and travel fees eat any money they might get from buyers.

AKC adds new breeds every year, yes. This year they added the Asawakh and the Sloughi—two breeds that were developed THOUSANDS of years ago. Just because it's new to AKC has nothing to do with when it was developed. Every one of their new breeds simply did not have the population in the US to warrant registration until the year they were accepted. Most of them barely register more than a few litters a year even after acceptance. All it means is that they are uncommon in this country. But they still have centuries of history behind them.

And since you might ask why that matters, AKC is a BREED organization. If it doesn't breed true, they aren't interested. Period.


Lawpoodles, your ignorance is showing, and your stats don't lead to any sources. I'm just waiting for your banhammer to come down. opcorn:


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## spoowhisperer

*Whitepoodles*
"As you know when you are only responding but not face to face with a person the meaning in some posts can be taken actually very differently."

You are so correct there!


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## Olie

Where do you find the pedigrees for these poodles??


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## whitepoodles

lavillerose said:


> because none of you "breeders" out there care about doing so, all you care about is your "business with it's extremely high overhead". *Reputable breeders don't make money off breeding and showing their dogs. Health testing, veterinary, show and travel fees eat any money they might get from buyers.*
> 
> 
> Lawpoodles, your ignorance is showing, and your stats don't lead to any sources. I'm just waiting for your banhammer to come down. opcorn:



I would LOVE to provide Lawpoodle08 with my breeding expensese not to mention my dog's show and special's career, the genetic health testing expenses and handler's fees, board, best food available etc. etc. etc...

If Lawpoodle08 has a quarter of my expenses over what she makes my hat off to her and her kind.

In the meantime I have been breeding exhibiting and selling my puppies at a GREAT LOSS, I pay out more for my dogs than I make on selling them..

As my husband tells me money in money out and to whom.. to all the aforementioned, stud fees, registration fees, showing expenses, entries, board, vet expenses, genetic testing expenses, travel expenses, hotel expenses and the list goes on.

I would LOVE to hear WHAT expenses breeders such as Lawpoodle08 OR *OTHER BREEDERS* WHO BREED PUPS, PRODUCING LITTER AFTER LITTER, BUT NEVER KEEPING ANY OF THEIR PUPPIES TO FINISH IN EITHER CONFOROMATION OR PERFORMANCE .

These breeders are also not setting a good example in as much as Lawpoodle08 isnt.


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## whitepoodles

Olie said:


> *Where do you find the pedigrees for these poodles??*




Ollie:
::--)) do you honestly believe you will ever find any pedigrees attached to these mixed breeds?

I went to that website, I got a headache...too much info for me but not the one I would like to see or learn from


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## faerie

whitepoodles said:


> *
> 
> Faerie:*Since you seem to have ended with several mixed breeds, I sure HOPE that you have not acquired them from such breeders as Lawpoodle08, but INFACT RESCUED them all..
> 
> Rescuing these poor muts...... I would encourage and stand by, but, alas.... *NOT* knowingly purchasing them from the breeders such as the aforementioned, who are creating them strictly to put food on the table and $$$$ into their pockets.


i was being a smartass. i have one mixed breed dog. she's a lab hound mix my son picked up while traveling. she was a puppy and needed a home. 

years ago i was given a mixed breed lab rottweiller. 

the other dogs were my weak attempt at humor. i don't believe in designer dogs at all. it annoys me that people like this will breed and sell mutts on purpose.


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## faerie

to go further ...

people like this byb with her mutts she's breeding and calling cutsie names drives me nuts.

i referred to eva, my mixed breed dog who is a lab hound mix ... with a made up "designer dog" name. so she's a houndrador. 

can't wait for this lawpoodle person to go buy a **** hound to breed with her lab. 

and while i was at it, i was being snarky saying all people can go to rescues and get these mutts and give them fancy names ... but they are mutts. just like a sheepadoodle is a mutt.


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## onlypoodles4me

Wow! Sorry Lawpoodles, but your site is very hard to look at. Your choice of type colors and very long paragraphs make you site difficult to look at . Not that it has to be fancy, it is important to be able to read the information without getting a headache. 
I sure hope your comment about your site "If it ain't broke....I won't fix it!" Does not apply to your breeding as well. I dont know a good breeder who does not always strive to do better.


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## whitepoodles

faerie said:


> to go further ...
> 
> people like this byb with her mutts she's breeding and calling cutsie names drives me nuts.
> 
> i referred to eva, my mixed breed dog who is a lab hound mix ... with a made up "designer dog" name. so she's a houndrador.
> 
> can't wait for this lawpoodle person to go buy a **** hound to breed with her lab.
> 
> and while i was at it, i was being snarky saying all people can go to rescues and get these mutts and give them fancy names ... but they are mutts. just *like a sheepadoodle is a mutt*.



LOL I couldnt help but think of a future mutt and it is a sheep bred to a poodle WOW wouldnt that be awsome, maybe we should clone them as well YAY !


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## Keithsomething

I am so disgusted by your post Lawpoodle I can't even attempt to make an intelligible post...

these designer dogs...I happen to own one of these "labradoodles" he was used as a stud dog at barely a year old and when he didn't produce what his DISGUSTING breeder deemed "quality" (and looking at your site we can all tell you doodle breeders SURE know quality ;D) he and his litter of puppies were placed at a high kill shelter...thankfully an angel rescued he and his puppies and fostered them until they found homes...its rescues that I tip my hat at for keeping YOUR dogs safe


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## JE-UK

lawpoodle08 said:


> First of all, I AM NOT creating a new breed. We are experienced and dedicated breeders of 3 established types of Designer Dogs, including the Sheepadoodle..."newer", but highly sought after for their beautiful coats and wonderful temperaments.


Doodles are not breeds. They are cross-breeds. The variety of coat, size, temperament, etc. that is seen is sufficient evidence for this, i.e. they don't breed true. IMO, they are highly sought after only by the gullible. I have met a few, and some are nice dogs, but very variable, as above. 



lawpoodle08 said:


> Each of us has our opinions and we are entitled to them. However, it does not make any of us RIGHT or justify being critical of the decisions of others.


Hmm, not so much. I'm critical of lots of practices that are harmful to dogs. Faddish breeding is one of these practices, as evidenced by the number of these dogs that end up in rescue. Unless you have firm commitments for every puppy in every litter before the breeding, and you provide a lifelong guarantee that you will take the dog back, you are contributing to dogs in shelters. 



lawpoodle08 said:


> Besides being the ultimate family pet, they have been quickly building the reputation of being one of the best/trainable Service Dogs, and allergy friendly, too. The Poodle part....makes them really, really smart. Take it as a compliment that the Poodle seems to be the primary ingredient to the most popular Designer Dogs!


Evidenced how? I know one doodle that is competing at anything at a high level, so your trainable claim is unproven. The allergy-friendly claim is untrue; there is no guarantee that the mixed breed will get the allergy-friendly properties of a poodle (and many/most don't). 

I can see much evidence in your website that lines up with how many smart people define backyard breeders:

- Re breeding stock ... "They have been vet screened and determined to be sound and healthy." What does that mean? Vet screened for breeding? My neutered dog gets vet screened every six months; just means he's healthy, not that there is any reason to breed from him. This is meaningless and appears designed to fool people into thinking that your vet has somehow sanctioned the breeding.

- Testing - lots of claims of health testing, but no documentation provided.

- You have a LOT of dogs. I have a problem with dogs living in kennels, particularly uber-social breeds like Poodles and Goldens.

- You breed dogs before they are two, which is not recommended by ethical breeders, and means you are breeding before valid hip testing can be done.

- Sheepadoodle? Really? What is the point? 

- Your website makes several references to your "program", as if there is some thinking or reason behind breeding one dog to another, but there is no evidence beyond such references to any sort of planning, aside from trying for odd colours. What are you trying to achieve? How are you going about getting there?

- You sell puppies by buyer choice in order of date deposit received. Not the best method to try to match temperaments with situation.

- You sell puppies to people who can't be bothered to visit/pick up the dog. So much for careful screening. To make this even easier, you accept Paypal. 

- You sell puppies for breeding purposes. Great way to help keep animal shelters in business.

- Web design. Partly a matter of taste, but honestly, pay a professional. Poor use of colour, mixed fonts and case, blinky stuff, navigation that requires l/r scrolling, contrast nightmare. See Web Pages That Suck - learn good web design by looking at bad web design - Home Page

- Premium member at NextDayPets? Which looks to be nothing more than a BYB hub. Even their rescue pages have nothing to do with rescue and everything to do with selling dogs for profit.

I would love it if we had such a shortage of dogs that there was a need for backyard breeders. Perhaps one day, but that is not the case now. 

If one wants a labrador, get one. If one wants a poodle, get one. With each established breed, one has some idea what the result will be, in terms of ability, temperament, coat, size. But I can see no justification for getting a dog where the temperament is uncertain, the coat is uncertain, the size is uncertain, and the health is uncertain. If one is lucky, one may get what is deemed to be the best of the two breeds. But it is just as likely that one will get the worst of the two breeds. I've seen it in some, the long adolescence of the lab with the high reactivity of the poodle. Not the perfect family pet.


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## whitepoodles

JE-UK 

EXCELLENT and to the point post !!


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## Fluffyspoos

I didn't even attempt to read Lawpoodle's wall of text. It lacks paragraph breaks.

TL;DR


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## outwest

I think mixed breed dogs can make a fine pet, but I certainly would never pay any money for one. That's what I don't understand. Why on earth would someone pay money for something they can get from a rescue or shelter? 

A few years ago someone at my work paid $2000 for a labradoodle! I asked her why she would do that when she can easily get a purebred labrador or a poodle for that? She said she liked labradors personalities but didn't want shedding hair. I asked if her dog shed. She hesitated and said, "Well, yes. I guess he took after the lab." So what did she pay for then?


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## CharismaticMillie

Why is it always these threads that I never read until they get real interesting? This shall be fun to read! To the beginning I go....


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## CharismaticMillie

Were there some posts deleted at the beginning of this thread?


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## FunkyPuppy

I groom a gorgeous 'Australian Labradoodle' puppy with the sweetest personality and an overgrown-teddybear look. He's 5 months. His mom paid $3000 for him, and he came to her neutered (at 8 weeks!!!). He is groomed every few weeks, to his mom's chagrin. She was told he would only need grooming a few times a year, but brings him more often because his face gets so smelly.

He's the only doodle that i really love, but is certainly the exception not the rule.


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## Keithsomething

I don't think so, I think they're all there


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## CharismaticMillie

You know what's ironic? Whenever I see those "ethical breeder of the year" badges from trainpetdog.com at a breeder's website, it's ALWAYS mutts being sold at some BYB. 

Anyway, WOW, reaching for the Motrin after looking at that website. Too many flashing things. 

Doodles. Why?


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## JE-UK

Just want to be careful not to give the doodle people any more marketing material ... I mentioned previously that I knew of a (single) doodle competing at a high level in a dog sport. I looked it up again just to be sure.

Richard Curtis competes (and wins) in heelwork to music with a poodle cross. BUT ... it's a poodle/BC cross, and result of an accidental breeding. Just saying.


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## alienz

i wonder if poodles had some other name that could not be combined in such a cutesy way if they would be used to mix with other breeds you know "poo" or "oodle". One fo the ugliest poodle crosses I have seen is a corgipoo. Long bodied and sparse coarse coat yuk!


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## LEUllman

alienz said:


> i wonder if poodles had some other name that could not be combined in such a cutesy way if they would be used to mix with other breeds you know "poo" or "oodle". One fo the ugliest poodle crosses I have seen is a corgipoo. Long bodied and sparse coarse coat yuk!


I'm convinced the popularity of these "designer dogs" is due almost entirely to the undeniable cuteness factor of the word "doodle." How many people would pay $2000+ for a "poodle cross," not to mention just a plain old "mutt," "mixed breed," or "mongrel." The whole thing is a beautiful example of our susceptability to the power of marketing.


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## 2719

LEUllman said:


> I'm convinced the popularity of these "designer dogs" is due almost entirely to the undeniable cuteness factor of the word "doodle." How many people would pay $2000+ for a "poodle cross," not to mention just a plain old "mutt," "mixed breed," or "mongrel." The whole thing is a beautiful example of our susceptability to the power of marketing.


It astounds me just how well accepted ANY crossbreed is. What I mean is how they can charge exorbitant amounts for a mixed breed dog.

Who was the marketing genius that spread the word that a mix is worth money?

Way Way back when I was a kid...people gave mixed breeds away...now I see ads for mixed breeds dogs charging anywhere from $150.00 to $3000.00

Acquaintances of ours have a mixed poodle, schnauzer....and they honestly believe it is a legitimate breed and paid over $2000.00 for it.

I have nothing against mixed breeds (We had some wonderful mixed breed pets when I was a child) I just do not agree with the marketing, and sale of them as Designer breeds.


If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ....its a duck.

If it is a pet dog, especially one that does not belong to a particular breed
it is a MUTT....not a labradoodle, cookapoo etc. etc.


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## Liafast

I love dogs...mutts and purebreds. The major advantage for getting a purebred is you have a 'blueprint' of how the puppy will turn out. You know about the size, coat type and temperment, not that thats wriien in stone , of course. Also, another pet peeve....you mix 2 breeds of dogs together, you do not get a hybred! Hybred are crossing of different species not different breeds. If the crosses were hybreds...they would be sterile, so we would never have second generations...whatevers. Just my 2 cents worth.


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## Dogsinstyle

It is spelled hybrid. In general you are correct, although not all hybrids are sterile.
Carole


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## zyrcona

lawpoodle08 said:


> Although, Aussiedoodles are a great breed.


No they aren't. They may be a great mongrel, as a purely subjective opinion or in the way that all mongrels are great. Where I come from, a 'doodle' is a scribbly drawing created out of boredom in the margin of an exercise book. Real breeds are bred for real purposes and don't have ridiculous degrading names. They are bred to a breed standard, not because someone thought it would be funny to take two different things and mix them together.

http://www.mapleviewdoxies.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/tia15.JPG.w300h225.jpg

This dog kind of scares me. It looks like something Jim Henson made for that creepy film The Dark Crystal.

Edit: If you look at the link on the first epilepsy-inducing website, the site author claims a god told them to breed mongrels, and also states that one of these 'designer' mongrels was diagnosed with hip dysplasia AS A PUPPY. So what might this be called? 'Designer' illness? 'Designer' defect? The luxury of a deformed dog, only available to the rich? If this breeder thinks poodles are so intelligent and lovely and don't conform to their public image, why doesn't it use its time to promote and educate about the breed, rather than wasting the breed on producing mongrels that are unlovely and smelly, and that shed and are less intelligent?


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## CurlyDog

Oh my gosh, that website was horrifying. "Epilepsy inducing", you hit the nail on the head. Yikes.


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## minipoodlelover

After reading through this thread and viewing that horrifying web site, I just talked a friend out of purchasing a schnoodle. I've always found the doodle mutts an insult to the poodle, and as others have said, if you want a mixed breed dog, rescue one or adopt from a shelter!


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## SusanG

*Any kind of poodle mix*

Never could understand it - why would someone want to dilute all the qualities of a poodle with another breed? They do it - why - to gain the positive qualities of a poodle - so why not just get a poodle, or as others suggest - get a free rescue dog if you want a mixed breed. People pay thousands for "designer dogs", but they are only mutts with a high price tag............. just saying


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## Tessa's Dad

lavillerose said:


> Think that's bad? I have a Newfie-doodle breeder in my area, and have already seen two of their dogs in my groom shop. One of which had a 12 inches of totally matted hair, never been groomed and the owners wanted to keep it that way (to which I said #7 strip down).
> 
> You know, because Goldendoodles aren't bad enough, *they need to be 120lbs and drooly too.*
> 
> This is why we can't have nice things. :alberteinstein:












THIS really made my day!!


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## Tessa's Dad

ChocolateMillie said:


> You know what's ironic? Whenever I see those "ethical breeder of the year" badges from trainpetdog.com at a breeder's website, it's ALWAYS mutts being sold at some BYB.
> 
> Anyway, WOW, *reaching for the Motrin* after looking at that website. * Too many flashing things. *
> 
> Doodles. Why?


I think I wrenched my back jumping back away from the screen. Fortunately I have something a little stronger than Motrin.

I can't help but thank the Lord that there wasn't a sound track along with the images, playing John Philip Sousa's Liberty Bell March. (The theme song from Monty Python's Flying Circus.) Which might have been appropriate for *this *site but make it even more annoying than it already is. Any web site designers have my sympathy. (And I'll share my Percocet if necessary.)


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