# Switching to Feeding 2 times a day from Free feeding



## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

I remember struggling with bringing a hungry dog to class to heighten food motivation. One option is simply to take the bowl away 4-6 hours before class. But yes, this is where toy drive is beneficial


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## JasMom (7 mo ago)

Initially you could offer him 3 opportunities to eat throughout the day, until he catches on that the food won't always be there for him. Some dogs will throw up bile if their belly is empty too long and that just gives him another chance to get something in him, even if not the full portion.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

One of my class handouts said to not to feed the dog before class, so I tried it. The result was a hangry inattentive dog in class. My compromise was to stick with the usual feeding schedule and just give a slightly lighter lunch on class days. Elroy might do better than my guy did, since out of the adolescent growth stage.


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## beowoof (Dec 6, 2021)

one of the training schools i took a course with also recommended a fasted dog for class, i certainly had an attentive dog but i also had one with worse impulse control, not gentle towards taking treats and even more of a hooligan than usual. 

i found a happy middle-ground by giving Kirby a half breakfast for morning classes and feeding the rest during class. enough that he wasn't on empty, but food motivated enough to work. maybe on class days it would be worth giving Elroy 1/2 - 3/4 of his usual ration free-fed for the day in the bowl? or perhaps offer the full portion but lift/remove the bowl 4-6 hours before class as Liz suggested?


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

He may just not want breakfast. I free fed Zephyr until I got a cat, now I cannot leave his food out so I put his bowl down twice a day. He doesn't eat much for breakfast, and it's not unusual for him to skip it altogether.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

The only dog I ever free fed was Gin, who was about 20 pounds underweight when I got her. Once she was up to her proper weight, I switched her to two meals a day. I want to say it took her about a week to catch on to the fact that she needed to eat what she was offered when it was offered. Unlike most of my dogs, she was never a "polish off the bowl in 30 seconds" type. but would take ten to fifteen minutes per meal, eating one or two kibbles at a time.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Apparently I wasn't clear in my intended direction of this thread. I already bring a hungry dog to classes. The point of feeding twice a day is to motivate Elroy to be more excited about being fed/receiving food from me. With free feeding, it's always there, therefore he need not be the least bit excited about it. Feeding only twice a day, for a shirt window per feeding, teaches him the food ALWAYS comes from me, as a reward for "working". I'm supposed to ask him to "sit", "paw", do a rally move, or anything at all, but he must "work" before I put his food bowl down. She says this will eventually translate into him giving me his ATTENTION better during rally, or any other time. This is the real reason (his giving me his attention better) for the change. The thread isn't about feeding or not before class. I was wondering if anyone had made the transition, and how long it took for the dog to figure it out.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

TeamHellhound said:


> The only dog I ever free fed was Gin, who was about 20 pounds underweight when I got her. Once she was up to her proper weight, I switched her to two meals a day. I want to say it took her about a week to catch on to the fact that she needed to eat what she was offered when it was offered. Unlike most of my dogs, she was never a "polish off the bowl in 30 seconds" type. but would take ten to fifteen minutes per meal, eating one or two kibbles at a time.


Wow! A week to figure it out! I was thinking it would take only a couple days. Thank you!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I made the transition with my last dog, due to extensive, long-term travel, and she became food obsessed. I really didn’t like it. I didn’t like the dancing for dinner, the anxious anticipation, the bloated tummy afterward. Just not something I’d ever want to do again, unless necessary. My parents, on the other hand, love how excited their dog gets at mealtimes, even when she shakes. To each their own. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

For Gracie, the transition was quick because there were other dogs around to motivate her. If she didn’t finish her bowl of food, her buddy Tucker would.

If I were to make the transition now, I would start with at least three feeding windows (breakfast, dinner, bedtime) until Peggy caught on. It would be a huge change for her. I would probably also use toppers to encourage her to eat more than a mouthful or two at a time.


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

I wouldn't think it would take much time to get your pup on a scheduled meal protocol (a week or less) There is quite a lively debate surrounding free versus scheduled meals. Rhonda is almost a year old, and she has been free fed since the get go. Interestingly, she does have her internal schedule she follows eating two or three times a day. Also interesting, is that she always eats when I sit down to eat, or if I appear to be interested in her food. She has zero food aggression and I assume that's because food is always available without any competition. The only thing I have to do is monitor the amounts she eats. Simple.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Elroy has been free fed since after 5 months of age. It's been working really well for him. If I don't like the results, or he doesn't seem good with it, we'll go back to free feeding.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

This has been interesting. I have never free fed because I've always had more than one dog and one of them has always been a bit stout.


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

Johanna said:


> This has been interesting. I have never free fed because I've always had more than one dog and one of them has always been a bit stout.


I don't know if free feeding works well in a multi-pet household. Maybe someone has experience with that.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Update:
Since Elroy didn't eat his 9am meal, except for a handful (or two) of treats, he hasn't eaten today. I've been feeling a little bit bad for him, but am sticking to trying this method out. He definitely got a few extra treats to keep a little something in his tummy though. We had a normal day with walks and play and a short play date with neighbor "Pip". All is well. 
I took him for a walk at 8:30pm, asked him for a "spin and sit" (which he happily did), and gave him his meal at 9pm. I then set the stove timer for 10 minutes. He ate his full (200g) meal. I promptly gave him another bowl full since he skipped a meal already. He ate 28g of the 2nd bowl and was full/had enough. There were still a couple minutes left on the timer. When the timer went off, I got his attention and showed him I was taking the remaining food away. He doesn't seem at all bothered or "off" due to the changes today. We'll see if he eats in the morning.


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

Elroy's a smart boy!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I wouldn’t use a timer but that’s just me. I would be afraid it would make the dog anxious of the food being taken away after a while. If it’s noisy it might be stressful too, and eating should be enjoyable.

I free fed many dogs, while others were on schedule. With Beckie I was never able to do scheduled meals. I tried for a long time but she doesn’t eat when you want her to. She will eat 4-5 kibbles, then more 2 hours later and so forth. I can’t force her, it wouldn’t be healthy. As long as you respect your dog it’s okay. But if Elroy prefers being free fed, I think if you find a treat he really likes, a high value treat, he will eat it even if he is not really, really hungry. Like little bits of cheese, or wienies. I know, not the best, but you can use tiny pieces.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

I want him to know the food gets taken away if he doesn't eat it right away. That's part of the point. 
Elroy will ALWAYS take yummy treats. That is not a problem. The issue that we're working on is me being able to keep his attention on me WHEN I DON'T HAVE ANY TREATS. As it is now, Elroy is only keeping his attention on me for the first half of the Rally course, then he figures out I'm not paying him (no food) and his attention wanders to other distractions. She is a very good trainer with much success in the ring (Rally, Obedience, and Agility). Her dogs are unbelievably attentive, so I'm willing to it a try.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

I dog-sat a poodle (1) and a shih-poo (9) years ago who were free fed, but I had my own large breed, meal fed dog as well who would have polished off their bowls. It took less than two full days for them to figure it out. I think I gave them 20 min, more or less.
My three dogs now are all technically meal fed, but all three will skip meals or not finish the full amount, all are slender. Usually if they don't eat I pick the bowl up, but sometimes especially if more than one doesn't finish I shrug and leave it there.
If any were prone to excess pounds or guarding food bowls it would be a different thing, and this also only works now that they are all on the same diet.

From a digestion stand point, I've always been taught that cats are natural grazers as left to themselves, they would catch multiple small prey/meals.
Dogs are harder as they are much farther from their wild forebears, but might be more likely to catch larger prey less often and fit a meal-fed plan. I know of people who "gorge" feed their dog every 1-4+ days (the ones who go longer than every other feed smaller daily meal as well) as they feel it's more natural.
I'm not so sure about that though.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

I had issues with Annie getting distracted after half a rally course, too. 

I started doing a jackpot when she got back to her crate, switching up between toys and treats in the ring, having a celebration at the finish sign, and most effectively, walking a LOT faster. 

She switched to meal feeding from being free fed midway through us doing rally classes and I didn't really notice a difference in her attention span. She is not a lab. 

My rally classes we often did 2-3 runs of the same course. Annie got bored and distracted on the 3rd run and I learned to pass on it. It wasn't going to go well, and I didn't want her learning to ignore me in the ring. 

Not sure what the rules are in the US, but I use 'good' a lot in the ring to mean 'you're on the right track, but no treat yet, keep going'. And 'yes' or a tongue click for a treat. 'ah' or 'nope' for a mistake. Annie seems to do better when I use 'good' regularly (and nope, occasionally)- otherwise I think she goes 'what'd I do wrong?' and gets discouraged. 

Our rally instructor had me do a course to a very upbeat fast paced song, and it was amazing how much more attentive Annie was. I also practice to fast, upbeat music. So now I try to have a fast beat in my head when we practice - thinking faster, faster, faster! Annie is way more attentive when I am moving quickly, with excitement. When we move quickly, Annie seems to think that a lot of the rally moves (especially turns, fast pace, slow pace) are rewards in themselves. Plus, if I can do the course twice as fast, Annie needs to pay attention for half as long . 

Another thing that helped was focusing on a duration heel for part of our walks - starting with one house, two houses, etc. That helped with ignoring distractions and building duration before a reward. I also use a release to sniff as a non-food reward on walks.


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## Sroodle8 (Dec 23, 2021)

Two ideas:
1. An agility trainer suggested that I hand feed my dog instead of using a bowl. I think she referenced Linda Mecklenburg? This would reinforce your desire to teach Elroy that food comes from you. It's messy and takes more time, but it might work.
2. A different trainer suggested that I get better treats. I was giving her Zukes and switched to meatballs from the grocery store. Scout loves them. But not as much as she loves Bark Pouches.* Evidently these are the most awesome treat since rabbit poop.** The downside for us is that I want her to be more obstacle-focused and these reinforce handler-focus.

*edited to add that I have no relationship with this company, I just use the product.

**reedited to add that I don't hand out rabbit poop as a treat. She manages to find enough on her own.


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## Sroodle8 (Dec 23, 2021)

94Magna_Tom said:


> I want him to know the food gets taken away if he doesn't eat it right away. That's part of the point.
> Elroy will ALWAYS take yummy treats. That is not a problem. The issue that we're working on is me being able to keep his attention on me WHEN I DON'T HAVE ANY TREATS. As it is now, Elroy is only keeping his attention on me for the first half of the Rally course, then he figures out I'm not paying him (no food) and his attention wanders to other distractions. She is a very good trainer with much success in the ring (Rally, Obedience, and Agility). Her dogs are unbelievably attentive, so I'm willing to it a try.


Can you treat in the ring during practice? If so, then surprise him...treat early and often, then space it out, then only treat the back half of the course, then randomly treat more, then less, etc. I know you are trying to eliminate treats because of competition, but maybe you could make it a more gradual and random weaning off?


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

For Want of Poodle said:


> I had issues with Annie getting distracted after half a rally course, too.
> 
> I started doing a jackpot when she got back to her crate, switching up between toys and treats in the ring, having a celebration at the finish sign, and most effectively, walking a LOT faster.
> 
> ...


That's so much for your advice/experience! This sounds so much like our situation. And l think in the end I'll agree! NO! Elroy is not a lab🤣 (my instructor has had all labs for many years...perhaps tainted by their food fanaticism).
I've been doing pre-run warm-ups with rewards, and post run jackpots. It's getting better. Fast works much better for us too, only I've not thoroughly learned all the signs, so it tends to slow me down (while I'm processing). I try to go fast because it definitely helps him. Did you keep Annie on 2 meals rather than free feed? 
Elroy didn't eat his meal again this morning (9am). He took a few morsels when hand fed, and wound up eating 40g by himself, but he just didn't seem to be hungry. He's never really been a breakfast guy. I tried again at 10am, still not interested. Before I switched to 2 meals, I would say his average times to eat his meals (even though he was free fed, he tended to eat his whole meal at one time) was 4pm and 11pm. I've now switched that to 9am and 9pm,12 hrs apart. I wonder if I should have chosen those times rather than 9 and 9? Thoughts? 
For those who do feed 2 meals, what times do you feed them? 
Today I'm entered in our 1st Rally trial, Novice-A. There are 40 dogs entered in 51 events. We're near the end showing 41st. I expect it to be around 4pm or later when we go.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

I feed two meals. The first one gets served whenever I get up, usually between 8:30 and 10:30 AM. The second one is usually sometime between 8:00 and 9:00 PM.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

94Magna_Tom said:


> That's so much for your advice/experience! This sounds so much like our situation. And l think in the end I'll agree! NO! Elroy is not a lab🤣 (my instructor has had all labs for many years...perhaps tainted by their food fanaticism).
> I've been doing pre-run warm-ups with rewards, and post run jackpots. It's getting better. Fast works much better for us too, only I've not thoroughly learned all the signs, so it tends to slow me down (while I'm processing). I try to go fast because it definitely helps him. Did you keep Annie on 2 meals rather than free feed?
> Elroy didn't eat his meal again this morning (9am). He took a few morsels when hand fed, and wound up eating 40g by himself, but he just didn't seem to be hungry. He's never really been a breakfast guy. I tried again at 10am, still not interested. Before I switched to 2 meals, I would say his average times to eat his meals (even though he was free fed, he tended to eat his whole meal at one time) was 4pm and 11pm. I've now switched that to 9am and 9pm,12 hrs apart. I wonder if I should have chosen those times rather than 9 and 9? Thoughts?
> For those who do feed 2 meals, what times do you feed them?
> Today I'm entered in our 1st Rally trial, Novice-A. There are 40 dogs entered in 51 events. We're near the end showing 41st. I expect it to be around 4pm or later when we go.


Good luck today! 

My instructor had labs too 😁 I think she regarded my struggles with Annie as rather bewildering. Her dogs would tap dance for a piece of kibble. 

Annie is still meal fed - she is on prednisone, and developed a ravenous appetite. If she was free fed, she'd be a 100 lb poodle. We feed at 9 and 5:30, and hen Annie gets a bedtime snack. When I lived alone, I semi-free fed (put down food 2x per day, but never removed it, just so I could track her intake), and noon and 8 pm were Annie's preferred meal times.

I find I get betterpoints just bombing through as fast I can, not worrying about if I screw up a sign or two, than if I slowly look at each of them. The first, I make mistakes, the second, Annie stops caring. 

Did your instructor tell you to do the run through, pretending to have a dog at your side, practicing all your gestures and what you say? I find that helpful to reduce my mistakes in the real run.


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

You might have to experiment a bit with the times. If he eats at 4 and 11 it probably means he's hungry at those times. You could try switching to those times, Rhonda (free fed) eats two or three times a day, but I couldn't tell you when she is going to eat. Her late afternoon/evening meal is whenever I eat, but that's all I can say. If I were going to change to a schedule I would have to experiment.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

SteveS55 said:


> I don't know if free feeding works well in a multi-pet household. Maybe someone has experience with that.


We free feed Luca and Matteo. They are grazers, have 0 food aggression even with other dogs. It's not a problemwith the two, as they eat what they want / need. At rally training I have a toy as a treat and they are really both motivated by praise. Funnily enough, we have a new trainer who commented on Matteo being too food orientated and I should hold off on the trets. She hadn't realised there weren't any 🤣


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Thanks everyone for the wonderful advice. I'll write more when I get a chance.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

94Magna_Tom said:


> I want him to know the food gets taken away if he doesn't eat it right away. That's part of the point.
> Elroy will ALWAYS take yummy treats. That is not a problem. The issue that we're working on is me being able to keep his attention on me WHEN I DON'T HAVE ANY TREATS. As it is now, Elroy is only keeping his attention on me for the first half of the Rally course, then he figures out I'm not paying him (no food) and his attention wanders to other distractions. She is a very good trainer with much success in the ring (Rally, Obedience, and Agility). Her dogs are unbelievably attentive, so I'm willing to it a try.


I must be dense because I don’t understand. What is the relation between not free feeding and Elroy paying attention to you even if you’re not giving treats ? In any case, teaching « look at me » can be a great way to get your dogs attention.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> I must be dense because I don’t understand. What is the relation between not free feeding and Elroy paying attention to you even if you’re not giving treats ? In any case, teaching « look at me » can be a great way to get your dogs attention.


I think it’s fairly common advice among non-poodle folks, to remind your dog that you’re the keeper of their sustenance and they must earn access.

I’ll be honest—our trainer is amazing, but she’s not a poodle person and it took her a sec to remember that Peggy is a poodle. She literally said, mid-class, “Oh yeeeeeeah, she’s a _POODLE_.”  And she quickly adapted her training style.

A poodle is never, ever going to be a lab. A poodle is never, ever going to be a border collie. It’s a challenge, for sure, to be the most exciting thing in a poodle’s world. But it’s a fun and rewarding challenge, and can really build your bond.

Looking forward to seeing where rally takes you and Elroy, @94Magna_Tom.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Elroy and I didn't Qualify in yesterday's trial. He got very distracted on 2 stations and we just couldn't get them done. That's minus 20 right there. He did pretty good on the rest but apparently point losses added up to an NQ. We did have successes, and we had fun the whole time, so a good experience all in all. 
Yes, what PtP said. Controlling his food is a way to get the dog to will pay more attention to you. Instead of just walking over to his (free fed, always available) food, he has to come to you and ask. Will it work? I don't know. We shall see. 
I moved up his evening meal from 9pm to 6pm. He ate his 6pm meal after we had a good energy burning game of fetch after Rally was done. I also moved up his morning meal to 8:30 today because he puked up bile and I wanted to get something into his tummy. He ate his morning meal. This is the first time since beginning this food schedule change that he ate two meals in a row. We'll see what happens with dinner tonight. 
Right now he's begging to out for the 3rd time this morning.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

He wants me to come out and play too, but it's only 37°F, and I'm still in my bathrobe ! You're on your own for a little while now bud🤣!


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## Apricot mini momma (Dec 22, 2020)

As an aside, I’ve found that free feeding can inevitably lead to a mouse in the house 😳 For those of us without a cat at least. I’ve never been successful in getting a mouse to go out with a broom or other chasing. It’s uncomfortable for everyone 😏.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

I fed Elroy his dinner at 6:30pm and he studied it briefly and then ate it all. So that's 3 meals in a row he has eaten when it's been given to him. Good progress on the feeding method switch. I have not noticed a change in his attentiveness, but I wouldn't expect that to be immediate.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Well Elroy didn't eat his meal this morning. But it triggered a thought. Am I overfeeding him, or trying to?
I've done some homework and have decided the answer is more than likely a whopping YES!
I'm going to start another thread about how much do you feed your poodle per day. I calculated how many calories I've been feeding him per meal, and on average, it's been around 800 kcals (and that's not including treats)!
I've thought about how many meals he's skipped and did the math to come up with how many calories he's eaten since I started the 2 meals/day feeding. I also did the math for a 34 lb bag of PPP kibble that lasts him about 9 weeks. The results are closer to 900 kcals/day vs the 1600 kcals I've been putting in front of him. No wonder he doesn't eat all the time🤦!
I'm going to reduce his meal size to 430 kcals/day to start and see how it goes. I will keep updating this thread for my own (and all of PF of course) future reference.
I may even go back to self regulating with a 430 kcal portion size.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I think it’s normal for Elroy to have higher energetic needs some days. And other days he might not need much at all. You may also notice some differences seasonally.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Bobby’s appetite varies and always has. Right now, I’ve noticed with both Bobby and Joey, that they are quite hungry at mealtimes this past week and I’m quite sure it’s because cold winter weather has kicked in. As a whole though, their appetite really does vary and both will totally skip meals periodically. Neither ever eats the recommended amount and both are at their perfect weight so I don’t worry. I get a little more nervous with Bobby because he is very prone to barfing bile on an empty stomach so I will offer him canned food or cooked meat if he skips a meal for too long. That will often perk up his appetite and he will then eat his kibble as well. For him, it doesn’t seem to make him picky as when he is hungry he eats his kibble with enthusiasm.

One thing I really notice in both of my boys is that they do have favorite times to eat. Both like to eat early, 6:00 AM (my husband is up very early for work so that’s how that early feeding started.😉)and later evening. Due to bile issues Bobby does get an extra meal late afternoon. For the morning feeding in particular, if we wait until later, even a couple hours, they often won’t eat or eat very little. They often go back to sleep mode. It’s like their guts are programmed for certain times and they often don’t seem as interested if we veer from these times.
Neither is very hungry if there is a lot of excitement going on. Also, my boys don’t like to eat alone and will ignore their food if alone unless they are extra hungry.

I think you really notice their patterns much more when you feed on a schedule vs free feeding. It sounds like things are getting better with Elroy’s feeding schedule and I’m guessing things will improve and schedules and amounts will get figured out. 😊


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

For AM bile, a bedtime snack can really help. Peggy gets a quarter cup of Honest Kitchen in bed, right after her last toilet outing. She looks forward to it every night.

For a while we also gave her a spoonful of wet food immediately upon waking, before any play or exercise. This ensured she had something in her belly before getting things moving in there.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Elroy ate his smaller, appropriately sized dinner tonight. He didn't eat anything this morning so I actually gave him a little bit more than the calorie estimater formula came up with. Per the formula, Elroy should get 430 calories per meal. He had about 475 tonight at 5:30pm. I'll weigh him as often as convenient (vet, groomers, some pet stores) to see if he stays at his 58/59 lbs. Tomorrow and going forward I'll be giving him the calculated 430 kcals per meal.


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## TuttoBene (Apr 23, 2021)

It’s so interesting to read the answers here because every dog is different. As they say in Italy “know your chickens”. We have always free fed . We free feed greyhound and poodle. Both of them like to eat in the middle of the night which I find very interesting.
For Rally we take the food bowl away 5 hours before hand and use a special high value treat. Our poodle is very treat motivated especially when a little bit hungry.


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## TuttoBene (Apr 23, 2021)

For Want of Poodle said:


> I had issues with Annie getting distracted after half a rally course, too.
> 
> I started doing a jackpot when she got back to her crate, switching up between toys and treats in the ring, having a celebration at the finish sign, and most effectively, walking a LOT faster.
> 
> ...


I agree walking fast and peppy helps a lot!


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Interesting, My Spoo started out as a puppy on 3 meals a day, but by about 6 months I put him on two meals a day. But I never feed him at the same time. I don't stick to much of a schedule myself and don't want to have to be at a certain place to feed him on time. I have a friend that always has to leave wherever she is to get home by 3 or 3:30 to feed her dog, and she said he always wakes her up at 6 am to eat. 

Interestingly she went on a trip to Europe for a month and I lived with my spoo at her house to be able to take care of her dog and cat. My Spoo always sleeps with me, and gets up when I do, and then I feed him. Within two days her dog was also sleeping in bed with us, and getting up when I did, even at 9:30 am. I told her that but she didn't believe me


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

So here's my latest update on switching to two meals a day (rather than free-feeding).
I've basically decided Elroy just isn't interested in eating anytime near when he gets up. I guess he's just not a breakfast kind of guy 🤣. We've been having pretty good success with early afternoon and late night feedings. Average meal times are 2pm and 10pm. I say average because I also decided he's not always hungry at a given time. I'll put it down, and if he doesn't eat it, I'll put it away for an hr or two (or three) and then put it down again. I do only leave it out for 10-20 minutes. If he's not interested, I put it away. Each meal is approx. 640 kcals, so 1280 per day plus treats (100-200 kcals?). My next chance to weigh him in 11/30 at his next grooming.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Time for an update.
So I think we've got this pretty much figured out now. Elroy likes to eat his first meal around 4pm, and his second around 10-11pm. We go to bed around 10:30-12 so basically he eats his second meal right before bedtime. He still isn't excited about getting his food, pretty sure he never will be. After asking him for a sit, I'll mark it, and then put his food down. Sometimes he'll eat after 10 seconds of looking at it, other times after 2-3 minutes (after insuring I'm not going to give him another alternative, ie. Treats). He eats different amounts of food each meal (probably because he gets different amounts of treats every day), so what he doesn't eat all at once, I put it away and offer it again in another hour or two. At 10:30/11, he gets his whole 2nd meal, then if he wants more, I'll give him any remaining leftovers (if any, from his 1st meal). Leftovers get thrown away after that.
He weighed 57.8 lbs at his vet exam. About ½ lb. lighter than the last time, but basically the same.
Bottom line (for now) is that he'll be getting served 2 meals/day, one at approximately 4pm and the other at approximately 10:30pm.
He seems happy with it!


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## Looniesense (Jul 10, 2021)

Have you noticed that the meal changes has made a difference in training (rally or other training)?


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Looniesense said:


> Have you noticed that the meal changes has made a difference in training (rally or other training)?


No I haven't really. At least not that I can attribute to changing his feeding method. He is getting better at it but I think it's due to us training better. We're going to try again for his first Rally Novice Q's this week, Thursday afternoon and again Friday late morning. If we're successful, we'll come away with two Q's. Wish us luck!


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## Looniesense (Jul 10, 2021)

Good luck to both of you. I’ve never tried rally but it definitely sounds like a team effort! Just a thought, maybe you should both compete in a hungry state and bring special treats for both you and Elroy (not the same treat LOL but one that you like and one that he likes) for when it’s over.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Looniesense said:


> Good luck to both of you. I’ve never tried rally but it definitely sounds like a team effort! Just a thought, maybe you should both compete in a hungry state and bring special treats for both you and Elroy (not the same treat LOL but one that you like and one that he likes) for when it’s over.


🤣


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I am so curious since your dog doesn't seem to like to eat. First of all, I would not offer meals a second time in awhile. I am not sure why you are doing that. And secondly, are you feeding kibble for his meal? Totally boring food.

I fully agree with the person saying to take him to rally, or in fact any other type of training either with a trainer, or even at home, without having eater within 3 - 4 hours beforehand. 

And then discover high-value treats that your dog loves. 

Maybe tiny bites of raw steak, or smelly cheese in tiny bites. To be used only for the training, and not given in anything except tiny bites (size of your smallest fingernail.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Yes. Generally he gets kibble (Purina Pro Plan, Shredded Chicken). I enhance it by adding in a fist full of Dr. Marty's freeze dried raw. Occasionally he'll get a half of can of Wervura paw lick'n chicken. It's not that he doesn't like to eat. He just has to make sure there aren't better alternatives at hand. Most times when he eats, he eats his entire bowl. If you look back at the whole thread, you'll see I've tried putting his food down, giving him 20 minutes to eat it, and putting it away until next meal comes around. I did this for a couple of weeks at approximately 8-9am, and 6-7pm. He was rarely interested in the morning meal and ate his evening meal. I think I had more angst about him not eating enough than he did. I finally figured out he likes his meals around 4pm and 11pm. I no longer have angst about him not eating enough, and he gets all the yummy training treats he deserves. Treats are not a problem.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

So glad you figured out when he likes to eat! That is key, no dog, or even human, likes to be on a schedule to eat when they are not hungry. He will finish what he wants. No need to put it out again  

My dog hates getting the same thing at every meal. I only feed him what he will eat at every meal, no left overs. Today he had a raw chicken leg quarter at about 10:30 am, and Taste of the WIld Roasted Duck Kibble at 10:00 pm. Tomorrow he will get about a pound of beef early - bone in, and then Orijen fresh and raw high protein dog food at night. 

Your dog sounds like he would fit my schedule just fine My schedule has never fit anyone elses! 

Still my suggestions for the training treats.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Another update on this (switching to 2 meals vs free-feeding).
We've got this figured out. Elroy eats his first meal around 2-4pm, and his 2nd around 9-11pm. This has been working very well now for over a month. I like being able to just give him his food and in 5-15 minutes I know he's got a whole meal in his belly.
I don't see that it's changed his behavior at all regarding Rally classes. Whoever mentioned that my instructors recommendation may not apply to Poodles (someone said something like "he's not a Lab") is right, I think. *Poodles are a little different. *


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

At least you transitioned away from free feeding. But I agree, living with a poodle is a lot different from other dogs I've lived with! In a good way.


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Poodles are a little different.


Poodles are from another planet!


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