# I need advise standard show people..:)



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Ora Marcus from Ormar Poodles breeds lovely blacks and whites. She is a member here. Winnow here is the breeder of my black boy Quincy, who is being shown. And Lisa Goodwin at Tango Poodles breeds blacks and whites and is also a member. I do not believe there is a temperament difference because of colour. We live with a red, a silver and a black and they are all similar because of the way they were raised and what is expected of them.


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

Thank you so much you have been so helpful since i've been on here and your very informative.. I noticed you every color just about but whites..Is there a paticular reason??


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

soon2bmommi said:


> Thank you so much you have been so helpful since i've been on here and your very informative.. I noticed you every color just about but whites..Is there a paticular reason??


No reason. Our silver gent's Mom was was white and she was my Mom's little lamb. I owned a white out of one of my Mom's litters when I was 23 and adored him.


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

Lavonne, who is Stargazer, breeds beautiful whites.

Ora's boy is Lavonne's breeding and I believe she has a litter on the way. She is also open to placement in show homes.

She would be great to contact.

Tabatha
NOLA Standards

PS And Penndragon is a very respected breeder. They have the stunning Micah. http://www.penndragonpoodles.com/


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

I just got finished looking at ormar';s site and OMG her dogs are beautiful.. I never heard of her thank you very much.. The breeder in iceland has beautiful dogs as well.. but i wonder if getting one here would be a problem??I emailed ormar and your dogs are gorgeous as well.. i know who to contact when im ready for a red.. Thanks>>>


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## RoyalFields (Dec 20, 2010)

I own a 4 1/2 month old pup out of the Aris line. 

Calisun Aris Inspiration to Azel (will be CH. someday:0)

I can't say enough wonderful things about this pup. 
A quote from a professional handler "You really can't get much better quality than this".
At a show breeders were falling all over themselves when I brought my pup out for the evaluation. 

Beth is a wonderful person. She is fair, honest, and ethical. She knows her line like the back of her hand and can inform you with absolute honesty about what you'll be getting. 
She has become more than a breeder to me, I consider her a friend. 

BTW my girl is also drawn to children and babies like a bee to honey and she is sweet like honey with those little people too. Beth has confirmed that this is a trait consistent with her line. 

Private message me if you want to know more.


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

oooh I LOVE the Aris dogs.

and the Blue Sky ones, too 

If I weren't so bent on breeding a red show line I would want one of those puppies!


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_Hi soon2bmommi. I cannot suggest any breeders myself, but I know the ones suggested to you are coming from good breeders themselves.

I have poodles of color and I have not found a difference in temperament between the colors. I really think it is an individual thing combined with how they are raised.

Good luck and have fun on your search for the right pup for you!
_


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## jonny cash (May 11, 2010)

You couldn't go wrong with a dog from Beth. She is one of the most honest and ethical breeder's there is. I love the temperment of both my Aris dogs. Everything Royalfields said is right on. I consider Beth a mentor and a friend. Here is a pic of my Aris dogs.


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

I have a good feeling about Beth, shes great... I just keep going back and fourth between a black and a white...If i decide on a black no doubt im going with Beth:act-up:

Thanks everyone for all the comments, you guys are great


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## vtomblin (Jul 18, 2010)

I know that Sookie's brother is still looking for a home and is in show coat. If you would consider a boy. He would be 7 months now. Look at Violet Standard Poodles. Deborah is in BC, at least on the same coast. I certainly vouch for her ethics and the temperament of this litter. Ora recommended her to me. She tests tons too. I have a pic of him at 3 or 4 months. Also Nightsecho breeds blacks. Catherine Talbot is the grand daughter of the lady who bred Wycliffe if you know pedigrees. Nice blacks. In BC too. Good luck! Be sure to check out the lines on Poodle Health Registry also.


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

I love, love, love Penndragon poodles and their whites are fantastic. If you are leaning towards the black standard, have you checked out Grendeur Standard Poodles. Just like Penndragon, they are in Northern California and her blacks are stunning and she also breeds whites. Here's her website:

Standard Poodles: Breeders of Champion show dogs, companion puppies


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

Thank you so much royal fields for commenting, Your poodle is gorgeous:act-up:


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

Thanks everyone!!! Im so glad i found this forum..You guys are all very informative and soo helpful..:act-up:


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

Johnny cash that is the prettiest black poodle i've ever seen... breath taking really....:act-up:


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## jonny cash (May 11, 2010)

thank you so much soon2bmommi, and good luck in your search!


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## lcristi (Feb 27, 2011)

NOLA Standards said:


> Lavonne, who is Stargazer, breeds beautiful whites.
> 
> Ora's boy is Lavonne's breeding and I believe she has a litter on the way. She is also open to placement in show homes.
> 
> ...


Nola,
i have just visited your website. I was thrilled to your poodles and read about your journey.
Chloe is my first standard. I think I have "the bug". I want to know more about "growing a coat", finishing a poodle and showing.
Where does one start?


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

Go to akc.org and look under events.

Choose conformation and click on your state (or a state close to you).

Find a show in your area and GO!

I went to my first show just over 2 years ago. It was in Biloxi, MS. I had no idea how to even read the judging program and find out what time the poodles showed - I just went early and walked around, sat ringside and watched.

I went back the next day, made notes and took pictures and then that afternoon, once everyone was done showing, I went by the setups and introduced myself/asked questions.

Biloxi is where I met Michele - my most awesome mentor, and Kay Palade - who allowed me to use her boy Carter for my first breeding - and Miyuke and several others.

The next day I took Antoinette for Michele and Miyuke to evalute. 

I can't say that anyone said, "Hey! This will be a breeze! Come on try it out!" In fact it was rather difficult. There are so many people who come by but never follow through, that newcomers tend to be greated with a "we'll see" attitude.

But if you really get hooked, just keep showing up at the shows. AKC has a mentor program and PCA does, too. Fill out the form and request a mentor. 

Mentoring is huge if you are going to owner handle. Even if you aren't, it's a mentor that can prepare you and share with you what they have learned in years of showing and breeding. It helps sharpen your eye for your own breeding program, so you can see what is good and what needs to be improved. You learn lines and type. Movement and structure - even temperment development. Health is always being talked about, testing and even legislation.

I think, for anyone wanting to breed, and do it well, they need to be involved with the fancy. There's so much to be learned I just can't see how you could possibly stay on top of all that is going on unless you are in constant contact with other breeders/handlers/pca members.

My email is [email protected]. If there is anyway I can help you, I'd be glad to do it! I owe a lot to my mentors and need to pay it back!

Good Luck!

Tabatha


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

Beth is wonderful!!! In fact, we have a litter coming up sired by a dog she bred and co-owns ))))


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

O.k everyone it's been a while since I last posted, But since march I have been waiting for my girl from Aris and finally this week she was born!!!! I am super excited!!!!!There was only one girl in the litter so I hope everything works out. So when she comes home in December I will post lots of pictures. Thank you everyone so much for all of your advice and help


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## RoyalFields (Dec 20, 2010)

Just a note on my girl out of the Calisun / Aris line. 
She just finished her AKC championship as a puppy.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

RoyalFields said:


> Just a note on my girl out of the Calisun / Aris line.
> She just finished her AKC championship as a puppy.


Congrats! Pictures?


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

way to go RoyalFields!! I love the Aris line great dogs!!


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

YEAH!!! I read that on the Standard Poodle list...so happy for you!!!


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

congrats!!!! I know shes gorgeous please post pictures!!! How old is she and who are her parents?


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

Royalfields I just went to your profile and I see your ravens mom, Your friend on fb


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## jonny cash (May 11, 2010)

RoyalFields said:


> Just a note on my girl out of the Calisun / Aris line.
> She just finished her AKC championship as a puppy.


Big Congrats she looked great!!!


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## jonny cash (May 11, 2010)

soon2bmommi said:


> O.k everyone it's been a while since I last posted, But since march I have been waiting for my girl from Aris and finally this week she was born!!!! I am super excited!!!!!There was only one girl in the litter so I hope everything works out. So when she comes home in December I will post lots of pictures. Thank you everyone so much for all of your advice and help


Congratulations!!!!!!


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

jonny cash said:


> Congratulations!!!!!!


Thank you Natalie!!! Ive been waiting so long and it was your boy cash that made fall in love with the Aris line.


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

*I am so frusturated and disappointed*

Wow, I dont even know where to begin. I joined this forum to meet other poodle people and to get recomendations of reputable poodle breeders. A few members recomended Aris poodles, I researched her lines and her dogs are gorgeous.. I contacted her back in February, we talked in lenghths she seemed like a reputable breeder very ethical..My puppy search was over I decided to go with her. The first breeding was a false pregnancy.. I really liked her we had a great rapport so I decided to wait again. We stayed in contact, we touched bases every couple of months.. In september she contacted me telling me Promise was pregnant, now im super excited.. She sends me pictures of the pregnant mom, everything is going well. Well in october I send my deposit. The end of october promise has her babies.. 6 boys one girl.. Well I contact her again and ask her if she planned on keeping a girl or if anyone else is ahead of me in line for a female? She says No. Now im happy again, im shopping like crazy making sure my little girl has everything she may need, I purchased pet insurance and I even had a trainer come out to my home to make sure my puppy set up was correct. Now I dont think I "jumped the gun" because I asked if this girl was mine and she told me YES. Well I put all my plans on hold, awaiting my lil girls arrival. The begining of the month I was told the puppies were ready to fly out the week of the 17.. Well thats a couple of days aways., so I contact Beth to see what arrangements need to be made. This evening I received an email stating that another show breeder thinks that my little girl is one of the nicest pups shes seen in years so she MUST go to a show home and she is placing her with that breeder!!! Wow!! I am so devastated!! I passsed on a gorgeous Granduer litter, which was in driving distance from my home.. I waited almost a year for this girl.. I am so sick I dont even know what to do now..


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

That's bad.....so sorry....

Have you told all of this to the breeder? Maybe she doesn't realize how much you were counting on this little girl.....


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

petitpie said:


> That's bad.....so sorry....
> 
> Have you told all of this to the breeder? Maybe she doesn't realize how much you were counting on this little girl.....


Yes, but I guess at this point it would not matter...A champion title is much more important then a champion pet home :2in1:


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

soon2bmommi- I know it's cold comfort, but it sounds like this was a professional/business decision (the puppy must be in a show home) and your dreams were collateral damage. I'm so very sorry this happened to you, and I would be devastated, too. I'm sure the breeder must feel very bad, but as unfair as it seems since you were promised the puppy, it's her puppy and she can place her wherever she wants. 

Can you approach the breeder and see what else can be done? Perhaps she can direct you to another litter and help you out that way. I do feel she owes you something, and since she has such a good reputation, I would hope she'd go out of her way to assist you.

Or what about taking one of the boys from the litter?


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

Soon2bmommi,

I am so disappointed for you and totally understand your frustration. What the breeder did is totally and completely unforgivable, at least in my humbled opinion. You've waited for her litters for so long. Once through false pregnancy and again now for this female. She's promised her to you and you've even double checked and she was still yours. Was there a written promise that you would get this girl? That's the problem with so many so called "great breeeders". Nothing comes between them and their ribbons.  

I would never deal with her again or give her any benefit of a doubt. I would also post on her site and on face book. She needs to know she is wrong, period.


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

Poodle Lover said:


> Soon2bmommi,
> 
> I am so disappointed for you and totally understand your frustration. What the breeder did is totally and completely unforgivable, at least in my humbled opinion. You've waited for her litters for so long. Once through false pregnancy and again now for this female. She's promised her to you and you've even double checked and she was still yours. Was there a written promise that you would get this girl? That's the problem with so many so called "great breeeders". Nothing comes between them and their ribbons.
> 
> I would never deal with her again or give her any benefit of a doubt. I would also post on her site and on face book. She needs to know she is wrong, period.


No there wasnt a contract.This whole situation has really left a bad taste in my mouth, im not sure if I ever want to deal with a show breeder again.. I really want a standard and now I have not a clue where


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Gosh, what a bummer situation. Honestly, I am surprised that you would have been guaranteed a pet girl. Typically show breeders will first choose the show picks and then allow pet owners to pick after that. This is pretty common protocol. I feel as though you should have been informed of this from the beginning so that your heart would not have gotten broken in this situation. Can you take a boy?


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Gosh, what a bummer situation. Honestly, I am surprised that you would have been guaranteed a pet girl. Typically show breeders will first choose the show picks and then allow pet owners to pick after that. This is pretty common protocol. I feel as though you should have been informed of this from the beginning so that your heart would not have gotten broken in this situation. Can you take a boy?


I do not want a boy but a boy was not offered to me. I was told that she was not interested in keeping any females and any one else interested in a female could wait for the next litter, because she planned on repeating the breeding. When I contacted her when the pups were first born and if she would of been upfront with me from the begining, instead of assuring me the girl was mine... I could of made other arrangements.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

soon2bmommi said:


> I do not want a boy but a boy was not offered to me. I was told that she was not interested in keeping any females and any one else interested in a female could wait for the next litter, because she planned on repeating the breeding. When I contacted her when the pups were first born and if she would of been upfront with me from the begining, instead of assuring me the girl was mine... I could of made other arrangements.


I'm sorry...This is not a desirable situation. I can only imagine how heart broken you are!


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

Does Grandeur have any puppies?


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

Poodle Lover said:


> Does Grandeur have any puppies?


No and she wont have anymore litters until this time next year.. But when I was being told that the little girl I was waiting for was mine she did... Just my luck


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## momofthree (Apr 9, 2011)

*So sorry...and a possible idea for you....*

I can imagine that you are so disheartened! I'm sorry! But, as I was reading,I couldn't help but wonder if you had looked into Desert Reef Standard Poodles in St. George Utah? I have read nothing but praise for Karen Green's breeding practices, and her ethics. And, I think her dogs are beautiful!! 

There are a couple of people on here who have dogs from her, I believe. Maybe they will speak up....Anyway, I would encourage you to check out her site and maybe speak with her about upcoming litters. 

Good luck...hopefully the right dog for you is just around the corner!


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

momofthree said:


> I can imagine that you are so disheartened! I'm sorry! But, as I was reading,I couldn't help but wonder if you had looked into Desert Reef Standard Poodles in St. George Utah? I have read nothing but praise for Karen Green's breeding practices, and her ethics. And, I think her dogs are beautiful!!
> 
> There are a couple of people on here who have dogs from her, I believe. Maybe they will speak up....Anyway, I would encourage you to check out her site and maybe speak with her about upcoming litters.
> 
> Good luck...hopefully the right dog for you is just around the corner!


Thank you so much, After this experience I am starting to have such a strong distaste towards show breeders.. But I will research and look into Desert Reef, her dogs are gorgeous..


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

That is so wrong. I think the breeders sometimes vacillate between keeping a good pet home available and keeping their options open for their puppies, using vague but encouraging language to do so.

I had a similar situation when I bought my Borzoi. There was one red female in the litter, and per our conversations, I thought she was mine and went on a buying frenzy. Then the breeder said she'd "have to decide" if that puppy could be mine after all. Which is fine, but she should have used the "have to decide" language *first*, and the "you're the first in line for this puppy" language *second*!

I spent several weeks on pins and needles, and as it turned out I was granted that puppy. It still left a bad taste in my mouth. Now on my spoo-search I'm happy to send a (refundable) deposit to "hold my place," but I'm not getting my emotional hooks into a particular puppy until the breeder says, "Come pick up your puppy!" :laugh:

I know this was a total bummer, but don't give up completely on show breeders. Yes, their priorities are different, but that's part of what makes them better breeders. It might make their decisions bad for us in some ways (prioritizing show homes), but they are good for us in the ways that really count: health testing and breeding for sane, properly put-together dogs.

Good luck in your continued search!

--Q


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Cool Im from Biloxi!


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

Quossum said:


> I know this was a total bummer, but don't give up completely on show breeders. Yes, their priorities are different, but that's part of what makes them better breeders.
> --Q


No, that's the part that makes them all about the ribbons. A good, ethical breeder that truly has the best of the breed at heart, breed first and foremost when they need a show dog and they tell you that upfront. They usually don't have many litters and they will always tell you that they don't know which puppy would be yours until they do the temperament testing at 7 weeks and confirmation testing at 8 weeks. They will take your refundable deposit toward a puppy in the litter (noting what your preference for the puppy is such as gender and color). If they don't have a puppy for you they will either offer you a refund or put the deposit towards the next litter. That's what an ethical breeder would do and does do.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

That sounds like a win-win, Poodle Lover!


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

I ONLY deal with show breeders, and not every show person, breeder or not, are the same. My first experience with a show person left a bad taste in my mouth as well. But I also did not understand where they were comming from.. that being said there are still some bad eggs out there. 
I got my mini from a great lady(sorry doesnt have stds anymore), she was willing to give a girl a fair shot, and her word is as good as gold. Sometimes she gets busy with life and needs reminding lol BUT she never renegs on a stipulation once she has agreed to something. Plus she is very FAIR!

Anyway I have never done business with but I have met the Donnchada Std breeder. She has been a nice woman, and seems very honest as well. Her dogs are gorgeaous! Plus she is a pro handler and if you want she can finish your dog for you or at least get the majors put on for you. I believe her handling prices are fair from what I have heard.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

why do you want only a girl? i thought i only wanted female spoos until i got seelie. omg, he's a darling love. i mean, such a sweetie pie. i can't believe it.

i told gloria (at tintlet, his breeder and gramma tee hee) about how temperance is my heart dog, but she's a bit of a bitch, but seelie???? oh he's so sweet.

boys are so sweet!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I agree. You should consider a boy. Would she sell you a boy? The boys are very sweet. Girls are bitchy sometimes.  Since she only had one female, it is too bad. Usually show breeders can't tell which dogs are show dogs until around 7 weeks old. I feel your disappointment. Usually they don't promise any puppy until then. There are many other puppies for you to have. You waited such a long time.

Are you sure you wouldn't consider one of her boys? I bet they are as nice as can be. It shouldn't be this hard to find a nice poodle. I have waited for a puppy, but never as long as you have. You need a puppy...


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

I also have to second the Dessert Reef recommendation. I know someone (not on this forum) with one of her dogs and she has nothing but praise for the breeder. She shows her dogs, she health tests them. All the puppies are raised in her home not a kennel and they are gorgeous as well. Definitely give her a call.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I am so very sorry! What a lousy situation! I hope you find the puppy of your dreams real soon with no more heartache!


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

Poodle Lover said:


> No, that's the part that makes them all about the ribbons. A good, ethical breeder that truly has the best of the breed at heart, breed first and foremost when they need a show dog and they tell you that upfront. They usually don't have many litters and they will always tell you that they don't know which puppy would be yours until they do the temperament testing at 7 weeks and confirmation testing at 8 weeks. They will take your refundable deposit toward a puppy in the litter (noting what your preference for the puppy is such as gender and color). If they don't have a puppy for you they will either offer you a refund or put the deposit towards the next litter. That's what an ethical breeder would do and does do.


So agree with Poodle Lover! I guess I should have said that by those "different priorities," I meant what she speaks of in this post. Just trying to distinguish a *good* show breeder from the type of breeder who announces on their site, "I don't health test: I only raise pets," (yes, I read that before on a breeder's site!). The latter breeder would give you first pick for first deposit, no questions asked, no attempt to match puppy with new owners based on temperament or any criteria *except* first in line with cash in hand.

Of course there are also "bad" show breeders who really are all about the ribbons, unafaid to trample puppy buyers' feelings, and will willingly breed to that top-winning stud even when they hear about his awful temperament or lurking health issues. No one wants to deal with that kind of breeder!

--Q


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

soon2bmommi said:


> Thank you so much, After this experience I am starting to have such a strong distaste towards show breeders.. But I will research and look into Desert Reef, her dogs are gorgeous..


I am sorry about this disappointing situation, it truly is awful. But please don't write off all "show" breeders because you had a bad experience with one person. There are many, MANY honest, ethical show breeders... it would be a shame to throw out the baby with the bath water because of this person.


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

PaddleAddict said:


> I am sorry about this disappointing situation, it truly is awful. But please don't write off all "show" breeders because you had a bad experience with one person. There are many, MANY honest, ethical show breeders... it would be a shame to throw out the baby with the bath water because of this person.


Thank you and I agree.. It just seems like so many show breeders are more concerned with ribbons and politics then anything else.. If you truly love your dogs,shouldnt you want the best home possible? I dont think a dog being shipped away to be specialed for months at a time, away from the owner is the best situation.


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

Poodle Lover said:


> No, that's the part that makes them all about the ribbons. A good, ethical breeder that truly has the best of the breed at heart, breed first and foremost when they need a show dog and they tell you that upfront. They usually don't have many litters and they will always tell you that they don't know which puppy would be yours until they do the temperament testing at 7 weeks and confirmation testing at 8 weeks. They will take your refundable deposit toward a puppy in the litter (noting what your preference for the puppy is such as gender and color). If they don't have a puppy for you they will either offer you a refund or put the deposit towards the next litter. That's what an ethical breeder would do and does do.


I totally agree


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

Ladyscarletthawk said:


> I ONLY deal with show breeders, and not every show person, breeder or not, are the same. My first experience with a show person left a bad taste in my mouth as well. But I also did not understand where they were comming from.. that being said there are still some bad eggs out there.
> I got my mini from a great lady(sorry doesnt have stds anymore), she was willing to give a girl a fair shot, and her word is as good as gold. Sometimes she gets busy with life and needs reminding lol BUT she never renegs on a stipulation once she has agreed to something. Plus she is very FAIR!
> 
> Anyway I have never done business with but I have met the Donnchada Std breeder. She has been a nice woman, and seems very honest as well. Her dogs are gorgeaous! Plus she is a pro handler and if you want she can finish your dog for you or at least get the majors put on for you. I believe her handling prices are fair from what I have heard.


I have heard of Donnchada, very pretty poodles. I was told by this breeder that she was not keeping a female and anyone else in line for one can wait for her to repeat the breeding since I had waited so long. If she would of told me there was a possibility that she may keep her, and not three days until she was to be shipped home, I could of made other arrangements and saved my family the devastation!


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

soon2bmommi said:


> Thank you and I agree.. It just seems like so many show breeders are more concerned with ribbons and politics then anything else.. If you truly love your dogs,shouldnt you want the best home possible? I dont think a dog being shipped away to be specialed for months at a time, away from the owner is the best situation.


I hear what you are saying but I just think it's more complicated than that. These dogs have a purpose, a career. They are being shown and exposed to the world and used in breeding programs for the betterment of the breed, for the future of all poodles. Dogs are not shown forever, not even specialed forever. And don't forget that some dogs actually like this atmosphere believe it or not. When the dog's show and breeding career is done, that dog will have (ideally) contributed to the future of the breed, ensuring better, healthier, conformationally correct poodles for future owners to love.

There are plenty of breeders just churning out pets, all pets, and all of those hopefully find their way into good loving homes, but that is the end of the road for breeders like this. The are not contributing to the future. Those breeders who don't show and breed inferior dogs just because they are nice and sweet do more harm to the breed in my opinion. There is a reason that a poodle still looks and acts like a poodle, hundreds of years down the line... because dedicated people follow the breed standard and carefully preserve this breed that we all love. 

I do think the important thing is for a breeder to be very, very honest and upfront with puppy buyers, and to remember that this person, although not buying a show dog, has big plans for their future beloved family member.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Thank you, PaddleAddict, well said.....

I know how it feels to get your hopes up for a puppy and think that I was the best home ever. I've wondered for years about show breeders vs pet breeders. And I see now what the long-term goal is....especially after reading about the development of reds and kleins.....all on this forum.

I'm learning late, but learning very fast. 

Thanks all! :act-up:


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

Just have to step in here and say that Beth Harris has always been wonderful to me. She really does love her dogs and wants them in great homes. There are always two sides to a story.


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

Ladyscarletthawk said:


> I ONLY deal with show breeders, and not every show person, breeder or not, are the same. My first experience with a show person left a bad taste in my mouth as well. But I also did not understand where they were comming from.. that being said there are still some bad eggs out there.
> I got my mini from a great lady(sorry doesnt have stds anymore), she was willing to give a girl a fair shot, and her word is as good as gold. Sometimes she gets busy with life and needs reminding lol BUT she never renegs on a stipulation once she has agreed to something. Plus she is very FAIR!
> 
> Anyway I have never done business with but I have met the Donnchada Std breeder. She has been a nice woman, and seems very honest as well. Her dogs are gorgeaous! Plus she is a pro handler and if you want she can finish your dog for you or at least get the majors put on for you. I believe her handling prices are fair from what I have heard.


Her dogs are Gorgeous!!


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

tintlet said:


> Just have to step in here and say that Beth Harris has always been wonderful to me. She really does love her dogs and wants them in great homes. There are always two sides to a story.


Yes, There are always two sides to a story and when you figure out the other side , Please feel free to chime in again!! I have nothing bad to say about Beth, Her dogs are gorgeous and she seemed like a very ethical professional and respected breeder, Thats one of the reasons I waited almost a year for one of her pups.. If you read the whole thread you would see that because of this forum and all of the numerous recommendations I received, was the reason I contacted Beth to begin with. Im not in anyway trying to bash Beth, I am updating a post that I started nearly a year ago that I have continued to update throughout the time I have been waiting for my puppy.. If you followed my other posts on other threads, I was also a big Aris advocate. Not one time have I said anything negative about Beth or anyone else for that matter... I am simply stating my experience for the people who where following my thread and waiting for me to post puppy pictures next week. I am not sure but I would hope that you are not insinuating that myself or my home is the reason for Beth not placing the puppy with me.. If so how about you figure out that other side of the story and PLEASE do post!!


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

Nope..don't know Beth's side..not my business. Just stating that I have not had a negative experience concerning Aris poodles


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

tintlet said:


> Nope..don't know Beth's side..not my business. Just stating that I have not had a negative experience concerning Aris poodles


Well thats very nice to hear


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

Soon2bmommi,

I think that Cabernet Standard Poodles is expecting a litter of puppies early in 2012. You should contact Mary Olund and talk to her. Her dogs are gorgeous and she is a highly regarded breeder right here in Marin County. Here's her website: New Page 1


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

A lot of the people I have spoken to have had nothing but wonderful things to say about Beth. Her and her line are highly recommended by numerous people.. I am not a vendictive person and I would never try to hurt anybodys reputation.. I read through my post to make sure that I havent said anything that would indicate those were my intentions. I was simply just try to state MY experience and what I am going through at this present time. Its an unfourtunate situation, Im sure her decision had nothing to do with me personally and I dont hold nothing against her personally. I just hope that I will soon find my own gorgeous standard soon.


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

Thank you poodle lover, You have been very helpful.. Mary was actually one of the first breeders I spoke with but at the time she wasnt expecting any litters. After talking to Beth and having such a good rapport with her, I decided to wait for one of her dogs.Marys dogs are out of this world pretty and she was very upfront with me from the beginning.I will definately contact her after Eukanuba..


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

I'm so sorry you had to go through this! A few things: first, I'm surprised that a show breeder would promise a puppy before the litter was old enough to be evaluated, etc. From what I know, most will take your name and preferences (no contract or deposits), and only after they reach a certain age and have undergone eval, will you be given a choice. If you were led to believe otherwise, that's very unfortunate. But on another note, it sounds like this female pup was one in a million (unexpected) and to look at the glass half full: she'll go on to improve the breed and that's a great thing! 

Second, I have always had male poodles. Five of them in total. I can't say enough good things about the boys! I was told to get a female when I was searching 10 long years ago, and I'm thankful a breeder suggested Alex would be a perfect fit for me. He's that and so much more. I never looked back and went with boys from that day forward. I currently have three.

Cabryn Poodles is another option if you're willing to travel (she's in NJ). She has 100 Mini Champions and also breeds SPOOS from what I know. If nothing else, she might be able to point you in the right direction. The silver MPOO in the bottom R of my sig is a Cabryn poodle. 

Karen of Desert Reef is a very nice, professional lady. I don't know her from puppy buying but from the forum and group buys and she's super, super nice. Her poos are also gorgeous!

Don't give up on your poodle dream. This deal may have gone belly up leaving you incredibly frustrated and devastated, but that just means this wasn't the poodle for you. YOUR poodle is out there and is waiting for your family to claim him/her. 

On a side note, I believe Beth Harris co-owns a most stunning black male poodle that we all know and love :
MBIS Am Ch Jaset's Satisfaction "London" - Info | Facebook
london Jaset Poodles


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## Lilah+Jasper (May 13, 2010)

faerie said:


> why do you want only a girl? i thought i only wanted female spoos until i got seelie. omg, he's a darling love. i mean, such a sweetie pie. i can't believe it.
> 
> i told gloria (at tintlet, his breeder and gramma tee hee) about how temperance is my heart dog, but she's a bit of a bitch, but seelie???? oh he's so sweet.
> 
> boys are so sweet!


I couldn't agree more! I have a close bond with L&J but it is different for each. Lilah doesn't always need me while Jasper will not let me get out of his sight if at all possible. Lilah is very independent and bossy. Jasper is the biggest love, so laid back and easy going. While I adore Lilah and I miss Sasha (she was a lot like Lilah except black) I think I am sold on boys from now on...


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

Rowan said:


> I'm so sorry you had to go through this! A few things: first, I'm surprised that a show breeder would promise a puppy before the litter was old enough to be evaluated, etc. From what I know, most will take your name and preferences (no contract or deposits), and only after they reach a certain age and have undergone eval, will you be given a choice. If you were led to believe otherwise, that's very unfortunate. But on another note, it sounds like this female pup was one in a million (unexpected) and to look at the glass half full: she'll go on to improve the breed and that's a great thing!
> 
> Second, I have always had male poodles. Five of them in total. I can't say enough good things about the boys! I was told to get a female when I was searching 10 long years ago, and I'm thankful a breeder suggested Alex would be a perfect fit for me. He's that and so much more. I never looked back and went with boys from that day forward. I currently have three.
> 
> ...


I had actually put a deposit down before the puppies were born. All of the show breeders I have spoken to suggested and some required putting deposits down in advance because they have such a high demand for their dogs. I was told placing a female and that female in paticular with me would not be a problem be cause she did not plan on keeping any girls and I had waited so long.


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

I really like Ora from Ormar poodles as well.. Shes very honest and upfront and her dogs are STUNNING!! I dont think she gets to wrapped up in the poodle world politics, and I know she placed her pick puppy from the last litter in a pet home.. My only concern is that she is all the way in Canada. I really want an Inky black girl and two of my favorites ormar and cabernet, mainly have whites..


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Inky black is lovely! Though I would not have your heart set on inky black as IMO it is pretty unpredictable. My Henry is the inkiest black I've ever seen and he came out of a black who is VERY faded. Most breeders put color last so if a great inky black happens, that's wonderful, but if not, there's dye for the show ring  Most breeders will not want to talk about how well their blacks hold their color...:angel:


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Inky black is lovely! Though I would not have your heart set on inky black as IMO it is pretty unpredictable. My Henry is the inkiest black I've ever seen and he came out of a black who is VERY faded. Most breeders put color last so if a great inky black happens, that's wonderful, but if not, there's dye for the show ring  Most breeders will not want to talk about how well their blacks hold their color...:angel:


Ditto this. Blacks (color integrity, not the actual dogs ) are unpredictable. I also lucked out and my black (Alex) is still black at 10 years of age. Sure, he has old man muzzle and some white hairs here and there but he's so black I often lose him on dark carpets, etc. In fact, I almost stepped on him not ten minutes ago.  (Blacks are my favorite!)


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

Rowan said:


> Ditto this. Blacks (color integrity, not the actual dogs ) are unpredictable. I also lucked out and my black (Alex) is still black at 10 years of age. Sure, he has old man muzzle and some white hairs here and there but he's so black I often lose him on dark carpets, etc. In fact, I almost stepped on him not ten minutes ago.  (Blacks are my favorite!)


When I first started my spoo search I was torn between a black or a white. After attending dog shows and seeing STUNNING blacks my mind was made up. IMO nothing is more prettier then a well bred black. I have seen pets that Granduer has bred that look better then a lot of show dogs . My only concern is after waiting so long and the situation im going through now , is putting a deposit down with phylis and waiting possibly up to another year and not being able to get a puppy again. A family friend of mine breeds English bulldogs and I promised my son his 12th birthday he can pick out a dog of his own and naturally he wants a male.


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

just keep in mind that some of those "stunning blacks" in the ring... are dyed


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

soon2bmommi said:


> I really like Ora from Ormar poodles as well.. Shes very honest and upfront and her dogs are STUNNING!! I dont think she gets to wrapped up in the poodle world politics, and I know she placed her pick puppy from the last litter in a pet home.. My only concern is that she is all the way in Canada. I really want an Inky black girl and two of my favorites ormar and cabernet, mainly have whites..


Ora is a wonderful person and breeder - hands down she titles her dogs I believe more than half her litter from Cole and Lola have titles galore. Ora cares about her dogs first and foremost. And I can contest that when she makes a promise she follows through. I have Kai one of two whites from her last litter. 

She also knows the breed, gives back in so many charitable ways. 

And her dogs are known for their nice dark pigments that hold - of course nothing is a guarantee but you can sure be confident you will get a nice puppy from Ora. If it wasn't what you wanted she would give you other options.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Tintlet, is dye not able to be detected in the show ring!!!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

The point I was making in my post above was just that. An inky black is rarer than you realize and many inkies you see in the ring are puppies or dyed.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

faerie said:


> why do you want only a girl? i thought i only wanted female spoos until i got seelie. omg, he's a darling love. i mean, such a sweetie pie. i can't believe it.
> 
> i told gloria (at tintlet, his breeder and gramma tee hee) about how temperance is my heart dog, but she's a bit of a bitch, but seelie???? oh he's so sweet.
> 
> *boys are so sweet*!


Yes they are......boy pups are sweeet and baaaad and then sweeet LOL.


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> The point I was making in my post above was just that. An inky black is rarer than you realize and many inkies you see in the ring are puppies or dyed.


But arent there certain lines that are known for being inky black and staying that way? I saw a 7 year old pet from Granduer and she was inky black. I heard that nightseco


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

Olie said:


> Ora is a wonderful person and breeder - hands down she titles her dogs I believe more than half her litter from Cole and Lola have titles galore. Ora cares about her dogs first and foremost. And I can contest that when she makes a promise she follows through. I have Kai one of two whites from her last litter.
> 
> She also knows the breed, gives back in so many charitable ways.
> 
> And her dogs are known for their nice dark pigments that hold - of course nothing is a guarantee but you can sure be confident you will get a nice puppy from Ora. If it wasn't what you wanted she would give you other options.


That is the vibe I got from Ora.. When I contacted her about a show quality female, she told me that she did not have a problem placing her best with a novice.. She has GORGEOUS dogs and she did not come off as snobby like some of the show breeders whose dogs werent even as nice as her.. I think around the time I contacted her the litter she had coming up was a white litter..


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm going to echo what others have said here regarding the boys. Your user name is soontobemommi - if you really want to be a mommy, I'd highly recommend a male poodle. They so adore their mommies! My last poodle was a male, and he was devoted to me, possessive of me (in a good way), and watched over me. I purposely chose a female after he died, because I wanted Mickey to remain my only boy, at least for a while.

Angie is great in numerous ways, but she is more independent and a bit more aloof. She's also not quite as affectionate as Mickey was. 

Male poodles are big mushes and total Momma's boys. Keep an open mind!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

minipoodlelover said:


> I'm going to echo what others have said here regarding the boys. Your user name is soontobemommi - if you really want to be a mommy, I'd highly recommend a male poodle. They so adore their mommies! My last poodle was a male, and he was devoted to me, possessive of me (in a good way), and watched over me. I purposely chose a female after he died, because I wanted Mickey to remain my only boy, at least for a while.
> 
> Angie is great in numerous ways, but she is more independent and a bit more aloof. She's also not quite as affectionate as Mickey was.
> 
> Male poodles are big mushes and total Momma's boys. Keep an open mind!


Male dogs-period. They are great big bunches of love, love, love.


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

I gravitate towards lighter colored spoos, but if I were ever to get a black I would go with Grandeur poodles, hands down. There is a woman at a dog park that I frequent. She brings a 7 or 8 year old black standard. He is from Grandeur and he is jet black, so gorgeous!


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

Poodle Lover said:


> I gravitate towards lighter colored spoos, but if I were ever to get a black I would go with Grandeur poodles, hands down. There is a woman at a dog park that I frequent. She brings a 7 or 8 year old black standard. He is from Grandeur and he is jet black, so gorgeous!


Ive a seen of hers as well and they were all gorgeous! I definately want one of her dogs but im not sure if I can wait another year..


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## KalaMama (Nov 20, 2009)

What about Dawin? Beautiful blacks!


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

KalaMama said:


> What about Dawin? Beautiful blacks!


I never heard of them before and yes there dogs are gorgeous, im going to try to find more information about them. Thank you!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Also Bar-None in Texas. Beautiful dogs.


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

soon2bmommi said:


> Ive a seen of hers as well and they were all gorgeous! I definately want one of her dogs but im not sure if I can wait another year..


Wow, she is not planning to breed for a while....too bad.


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

Poodle Lover said:


> Wow, she is not planning to breed for a while....too bad.


She is planning a silver litter in the spring and after that the only other litter will be late fall she said


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Also Bar-None in Texas. Beautiful dogs.


Do you show your dogs?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

soon2bmommi said:


> Do you show your dogs?


One of them! Tiger (my white boy) is a champion.  Though, I didn't show them myself - I hired a handler. I do plan to show Tiger myself for some grand. ch. points. We're still growing hair here - he's only 13 mos old. Tiger is from Safari poodles. I adore his breeder. I know she had a brown male from her last littler still available, but I don't know about black/females. Wouldn't hurt to contact her! She is in IL. She typically breeds black/white.

Henry is my mom's poodle (black - pet) and he is out of a Bar-None dog. I admired the Bar-None dogs and they were on the top of my list when I was looking for my show puppy. I went with Safari but let's say Bar-None is up there high on my list for any future puppies! Henry's breeder (Vic-Tori Poodles) has puppies on the ground, not sure of availability, but there were whites and blacks of both sexes. I think only two females though, so I doubt there would be an available female still.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

CM, I have always thought Henry was an exceptionally beautiful 'pet' poodle. He has an amazing chest and I love his gorgeous, slightly chiseled face - obvious quality. Add to that his stunning solid black coat and I would snap up a pup from his breeder in a moment if the personality/poodliness was also there. He has a nice personality, too, doesn't he?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

outwest said:


> CM, I have always thought Henry was an exceptionally beautiful 'pet' poodle. He has an amazing chest and I love his gorgeous, slightly chiseled face - obvious quality. Add to that his stunning solid black coat and I would snap up a pup from his breeder in a moment if the personality/poodliness was also there. He has a nice personality, too, doesn't he?


He is exceptionally beautiful and has a wonderful personality/temperament! That said, the puppies his breeder has on the ground are in no way related to him.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Classique, High Profile, Ivylane, Seraphim, Signet, Marubi...seriously, you could not go wrong with any of them as far as stunning looking dogs go.


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> Classique, High Profile, Ivylane, Seraphim, Signet, Marubi...seriously, you could not go wrong with any of them as far as stunning looking dogs go.


Thank you so much!!!! Those are gorgeous spoos!!! Out of these breeders, which are known for their blacks?


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

All of them. Classique bred Classique Scaramouche, who is a hunka hunka burnin' love! This guy gave me goosebumps when I saw him in person.


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> All of them. Classique bred Classique Scaramouche, who is a hunka hunka burnin' love! This guy gave me goosebumps when I saw him in person.


Thank you again!! You have always been helpful to me and so many others on this forum. Your dogs are GORGEOUS and you are genuinely a nice person.. When I am ready for a red in a few years, you will be the only person I contact


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## vtomblin (Jul 18, 2010)

Nights Echo up in BC has the most fantastic blacks. Catherine Talbot is very nice and ethical. I would buy from her if I wasn't stuck on whites! It's possibly drivable from Ca. The right coast anyways! Wintergarden in BC has nice blacks too. I've seen them at shows but don't know the breeder. Good luck!


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

vtomblin said:


> Nights Echo up in BC has the most fantastic blacks. Catherine Talbot is very nice and ethical. I would buy from her if I wasn't stuck on whites! It's possibly drivable from Ca. The right coast anyways! Wintergarden in BC has nice blacks too. I've seen them at shows but don't know the breeder. Good luck!


Thank you! Nightseco has beautiful blacks!! Your whites are very pretty, what breeder?


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Just so Catherine knows if she happens to be reading this, I highly recommended Nightsecho to the OP in a PM. The person AND the breeder.


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## vtomblin (Jul 18, 2010)

soon2bmommi said:


> Thank you! Nightseco has beautiful blacks!! Your whites are very pretty, what breeder?


Thanks! My girl is from Violet poodles in BC and Phoenix is from Oklahoma out of a pinafore bitch. They are not breeding anymore.


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