# Lunging on leash



## amarantine (Sep 5, 2014)

Long post, bear with me here...but I've been lurking for a while and only now throwing my own questions into the mix.

My pup is 11 months old, standard, female, not yet spayed. Since about 4-5 months, she's wanted to run/bark at runners, bikes, and skateboards. I think these are actually somewhat separate issues:

1) Runners/bikes: when off leash, she runs up to them and then runs away again, no barking or jumping or going nuts. When on leash, sometimes they will trigger a barking/lunging frenzy. I've tried asking for sits, giving treats for looking away, telling her to leave it (she's good about leave it on food), but she's not super food motivated and sometimes she's clearly so worked up the treats don't matter. I can't figure out why some bikes trigger this and others don't, either.

2) Skateboards: this seems like a case of total freak out...she barks at them whether on or off leash. I've tried conditioning her to the noise by rolling a skateboard around, and by having my friend skateboard past her. She got used to that fast, since she quickly figured out that it was me or my friend. But the ones on the street are still problematic.

Does anyone have creative thoughts on conditioning, reducing stress, etc? It's hard for me to avoid the triggers since I live in a city and primary mode of transportation is walking. I'd also prefer not to switch to a prong collar being afraid it will make things worse...willing to hear ideas though.

Thanks in advance!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I would see if you can enlist some help from neighboring kids with bikes and skateboards. Have them go by in the street and you keep your girl on your lawn at a distance below threshold of her reactivity. Let her look at them and reward her lavishly for staying calm and for being willing to look back to you. Gradually you should be able to decrease the distance between her and the scary things.


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## aasteapots (Oct 6, 2013)

Are you able to turn back from where she is walking when this happens? The best thing to do would be to walk way from it. If she barks or starts to lunge just start walking the other way. even if she is still engaged she will eventually have to follow you because she is attached to a leash. I wouldn't reward her or try to calm or pet her that is reenforcing the behavior. just tell her no and walk the other way. Dogs hate losing ground.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Stella was 2 years old when I got her. I was her 3 owner and no one had been able to control her on leash. Her 2nd owner tried, but soon gave up. She was scared of men, children and VERY dog aggressive. I took her to the park daily for 2 months and worked with her, if she pulled, I stopped walking , it took forever to get anywhere. I tried treats and she would be too worked up to care if she saw a dog. After 2 months, my sister brought me a prone collar, it was like the magic pill. I would tell you to get one today... I can walk her now with my pinky finger, she is perfect on leash. I still use the prone collar, why not??? If she is doing good, she will not even know it is on her. I think you just need to stay at it. Take your dog where she will see bikers ect and just get her used to it. I walk my dogs 3-4 miles everyday.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

aasteapots said:


> Are you able to turn back from where she is walking when this happens? The best thing to do would be to walk way from it. If she barks or starts to lunge just start walking the other way. even if she is still engaged she will eventually have to follow you because she is attached to a leash. I wouldn't reward her or try to calm or pet her that is reenforcing the behavior. just tell her no and walk the other way. Dogs hate losing ground.


It isn't reinforcing the undesired behavior if she remains at a distance that is below the dog's threshold. She will never fix the problem if she doesn't confront it in a constructive way. I think that if you always turn around (and by implication head for home) the only place that you will eventually be able to be is home with a dog that looks out the windows and barks at the world.

If the dogs has already reacted you most certainly do walk the other way, but that isn't what I was suggesting.


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## aasteapots (Oct 6, 2013)

Per our trainer it doesn't take long for them to realize they are not going to be rewarded with a walk. Also you don't have to walk home you can just go a different direction but it will lengthen the learning process. The part you must avoid is yelling at them or reprimanding them because all they hear is you "barking" also. You don't want to give them treats or pet them because they think you are rewarding the behavior. Basically by walking the other way you are saying this is not the activity we are participating in at this moment.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think there are a few misunderstandings here. Letting the dog become accustomed to the scary or overly exciting thing from a distance that enables them to get used to it without reacting to it (desensitisation), and rewarding them for calm behaviour while doing so, thus building positive associations (counter conditioning), are very well established behavioural modification techniques. If the dog is reacting you are already too close, and the obvious thing to do is to walk away - not so much because the dog finds it aversive (if she is fearful more distance will be a huge relief), but because she is now too OTT to listen to you whatever you say or do. I do it when mine are barking out of over excitement - turning and walking away a few yards, then turning back, gives them just enough time to calm down and remember their manners. 

For this pup I would go with Catherine's suggestion, which will let you both learn to relax around fast moving bikes and boards (nothing like anticipating a sudden leash lunge to ratchet up your own stress levels!). You could also try the really simple things, like keeping your body between the dog and whatever it is, and walking in a wide curve to avoid it. Even a few extra feet can sometimes make all the difference.


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## amarantine (Sep 5, 2014)

Thanks everyone. I will try what lily suggested. One thing I forgot to say - sometimes I'll leave her tied up outside a restaurant. There's absolutely no reaction when bikes or runners go by, so I suspect I'm somehow feeding into this . Plus no reaction off leash, and sometimes no reaction when the bike is right next to us. I wish I could figure out why some bikes are chase-worthy and others aren't. I'm sure she's wondering how I don't understand the differences.

Turning and going the other way consistently would be tough since sometimes the runner is running right at us - I do try to reverse when possible. Also would be sad for both of us if I stopped the walk each time...she needs exercise and I need to get where I'm going!

Speaking of which, does exercise play into this? I think she's calmer when she's had more exercise, but upping the exercise may/may not be a permanent solution...


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

given what you've described, figuring out what the trigger is might be tough. i will tell you, though, that when i had two dogs, the very low-key introverted male became reactive to other dogs, barking away at them for all he was worth - probably resource guarding the female, because this behavior ended after she was put to sleep. i was using flexileads then and when i spotted another dog headed our way, i started tightening up the leads. it took about three times for the male to figure out what was going on. from then on, if i tightened up the lead, he started looking around for the "intruder." it's possible that you yourself are sending a signal of some kind that at least encourages your dog to act up. maybe working with a really experienced trainer a couple of times could help you determine if that is the case.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

amarantine said:


> Thanks everyone. I will try what lily suggested. One thing I forgot to say - sometimes I'll leave her tied up outside a restaurant. There's absolutely no reaction when bikes or runners go by, so I suspect I'm somehow feeding into this . Plus no reaction off leash, and sometimes no reaction when the bike is right next to us. I wish I could figure out why some bikes are chase-worthy and others aren't. I'm sure she's wondering how I don't understand the differences.
> 
> Turning and going the other way consistently would be tough since sometimes the runner is running right at us - I do try to reverse when possible. Also would be sad for both of us if I stopped the walk each time...she needs exercise and I need to get where I'm going!
> 
> Speaking of which, *does exercise play into this? *I think she's calmer when she's had more exercise, but upping the exercise may/may not be a permanent solution...


I think exercise is a big part of how almost any dog reacts to a situation. A dog that is excitable because it hasn't been exercised enough is more likely to react to things that are highly stimulating. Remember that exercise should importantly include thinking work as well as physical work. Lily can be more tired from doing complex thinking tasks that aren't strenuous than from running for a long period for no reason.

I also agree with patk that you may have a hard time between which kinds of things trigger her reactivity, so classical conditioning as I suggested against many variations of the things you know get her reactive is probably your best bet. Be patient, it can take time.


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## amarantine (Sep 5, 2014)

For whatever reason, she's been a bit calmer in the last couple days. We're still working on it but things feel less unmanageable. I'm wondering if she had a silent heat or hormonal changes also played into it?? Anyways...

Lily, do you have any suggestions as to mental challenges? Right now we do sits at stops, spontaneous downs while walking, and walking around trees etc on the sidewalk. Also lots of tug with drop it, sit, down, wait. We don't have a great formal heel...I've struggled to teach it and maybe I'll look into a training club a bit farther from home. Most of the pet classes only have you walking in circles without much refinement.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I used to do what is called doodling on leash to help Lily remember to pay attention. I'm not sure how much you want to do it in the street, but it would be a game you could play in your yard or a park. Basically you start with your dog on a sit at your left side and you say "let's go" and start walking straight but you periodically do abrupt direction changes, pace changes, etc. You would wait for a sit if you stop. Reward the dog for finding its way back to loose leash at your left side. Eventually that turns into heeling. Now what I do when I am at a place where I can let Lily be off leash I do the same kind of thing but give her sit wait, stand wait or drop wait orders while I keep going (maybe in a new direction or at a new pace). After I get some distance I tell her to "get close" which is her order to set up at heel.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

amarantine said:


> My pup is 11 months old, standard, female, not yet spayed. Since about 4-5 months, she's wanted to run/bark at runners, bikes, and skateboards....
> Does anyone have creative thoughts on conditioning, reducing stress, etc? It's hard for me to avoid the triggers since I live in a city and primary mode of transportation is walking. I'd also prefer not to switch to a prong collar being afraid it will make things worse...willing to hear ideas though.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


You might find some help here.
Barking and lunging at scooters - how Diesel's behaviour was changed (CASI) - YouTube
Start Here - Care for Reactive Dogs


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## Specman (Jun 14, 2012)

Chagall's mom said:


> You might find some help here.
> Barking and lunging at scooters - how Diesel's behaviour was changed (CASI) - YouTube
> Start Here - Care for Reactive Dogs


Chagall,

Thank you for posting this link. My guy is reactive and it was amazing to see the difference between when this dog started training and when he was finished. The thought that Max could be like that on walks when encountering other dogs is encouraging. 

The discouraging part is that it took 7 weeks with the constant help of an assistant to make it happen but it is something to work towards. It is always a process!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Specman think about it though, what is seven weeks out of the life time of the dog, not so much really.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Specman said:


> Chagall,
> 
> Thank you for posting this link. My guy is reactive and it was amazing to see the difference between when this dog started training and when he was finished. The thought that Max could be like that on walks when encountering other dogs is encouraging.
> 
> *The discouraging part is that it took 7 weeks* *with the constant help of an assistant to make it happen but it is something to work towards. It is always a process!*



I'm glad it left you feeling _mostly _encouraged!  I don't want to tamper with that, but I want to tell a friend of ours rescued a _very_ reactive but lovable Bouvier des Flandres mix who took reactive to a whole new level. Anything that came with wheels, even a baby stroller, turned Rudy into Cujo.:scared: It took a long time, I'm going to whisper how long a time, 7 months, but you can now safely take Rudy to the skateboard park! So see, it _can_ happen. And I hope it will for Max, sooner than later. Best of luck to you! This is a photo of Rudy, with his owner, along with Chagall and I watching cyclists go by on the bike path. _Woohoo_, no lunging, no barking, nada!! roud:


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

For a mental challenge (not addressing the lunging at all) that may need to wait a few months, you can train your dog to heel on the opposite side using a different command. For example if your dog heels on your left to the word "heel", you could train heeling on the right side using the word phrase "rightside". I have my dogs change sides behind me, so it is a bit advanced. It is both physically and mentally challenging to your dog and has the added benefit of having your dog walk on the side away from a busy street... or a vicious looking dog. Dogs seem to enjoy the change up. Good luck with the reactive behavior; I think you are on the right track by identifying the various triggers.


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## SteviM95 (Jul 9, 2014)

*Does this make sense?*

When I first got my spoo, she was only 7 weeks old. She did show a few signs of fear - like when meeting my neighbor's dog. One of my previous poodles was an adult with fear aggression issues, and I want to avoid that - it was a hard thing to deal with, even though he was only 12 pounds. So, when Bindi first started showing signs of fear, I simply stood tall and talked loud, completely ignoring whatever thing or situation she was afraid of. For example, when my neighbor wanted to take his dog away because Bindi seemed scared, I just kept talking to him...and within a few minutes she was sniffing. I kind of look at it as keeping a horse from spooking. When I'm riding & my horse seems to be tensing up, I start to sing really loud. It keeps me from holding my breath ( communication to the animal that I am tense), it gives a rhythm to our movements (keeps movement from getting tense), & I think its distracting. The first couple weeks, if Bindi was hesitating on our walks, seeming to be fearful of something, I would sing. I know horses and dogs are very different ( prey vs predator), but I do think this works on both when they are unsure or fearful. So, if I were you, I would probably stand like a retard singing until my dog calmed down, and then sing while we walked past the skateboarders. Bindi is not a fearful poodle...but I do think she had the potential to become one, and those creatures are sad.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

SteviM95 said:


> ...When I'm riding & my horse seems to be tensing up, I start to sing really loud. It keeps me from holding my breath ( communication to the animal that I am tense), it gives a rhythm to our movements (keeps movement from getting tense), & I think its distracting. The first couple weeks, if Bindi was hesitating on our walks, seeming to be fearful of something, I would sing. I know horses and dogs are very different ( prey vs predator), but I do think this works on both when they are unsure or fearful....


Your post reminded me of this advice. 

Handling On-lead Aggression | Suzanne Clothier
Be aware of your breathing and body posture. Since we tend to hold our breath and thus tense our muscles when nervous (facts that do not escape the dog), it is important to breathe in a more normal fashion. The easiest way is to either sing or tell the dog a fairy tale, such as Goldilocks and the Three Bears. While this sounds silly, the very silliness keeps you calm and relaxed. How uptight can you get talking about a blonde and three bears in the woods?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

SteviM95 what you have done makes absolute sense to me. When I was first able to walk Lily around the neighborhood I noticed that there were a couple of houses (with crazy reactive dogs) that she definitely didn't want to walk past. She would slow down or even put the brakes on completely. Rather than letting her decide it was ok to avoid what was making her nervous, I would stop just before the spot where I knew she would start to slow down. I would do some easy sits, down stuff and to relax both of us and to remind her she knew how to do good things then say let's go very nicely and confidently. We very quickly were able to walk past those houses with no problems. I even think the reactions we got from the reactive dogs diminished a bit because it was a well adjusted confident dog they saw walking by, not another reactive dog.

Just as with your horse, a lot of how Bindi will perceive and respond to "scary" stimuli depends on the frame of mind that you not only project but truly feel internally.


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