# ofa dental database



## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

I'm thinkin' of forming the FDB . . . the Frank Database. All of u that have problems with other forum members must report these problems to me.

Oh . . . and by the way . . there will be a $15 fee for single reports. $30 for problems with multiple forum members. 

The simple fact that somebody sets up a database does not necessitate my involvement in it...


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

It was the Rottweiler people who pushed for this. Their standard calls for a full set of teeth (the better to bite you with ). Judges actually count their teeth. I thought it might be of mild interest to people who are concerned about their poodle being able to carry a duck out of the water. UKC puts a higher demand on teeth than AKC, also. I don't see a problem with a poodle missing one or even two of those little premolars. So many of them are missing a couple of those. 

Did you notice that if your dog was missing teeth and you chose to report it there was no charge at all. :act-up:

I don't see many poodle people using this database.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Ya, OW . . . old friend. I sure don't mean to make a joke at yr expense. Not my intention at all. 

I think I'll continue to support Karen Mills and the PHR . . that's a useful database. I wonder what new databases that people will come up with in the future, tho.

This one may be of use to some breeds but, to me, it smacks of the trivial.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Are missing teeth genetic? It seems there are so many factors that go into oral health and missing teeth. A dog could have an accident and knock some out or get fed a poor quality diet or have an owner who neglects brushing. I think most people don't brush their dog's teeth. I also think even a novice can tell fairly easily if a dog has a good bite. I would be interested in seeing everyone's take on this. On the face of it I don't see the value but there may be factors I am unaware of or not considering. I wish they would have a requirement for champion to retrieve a duck from water - I think something like that could point out flaws in conformation and temperment.


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## missmygirls (Jun 5, 2012)

outwest said:


> It was the Rottweiler people who pushed for this. Their standard calls for a full set of teeth (the better to bite you with ). Judges actually count their teeth. I thought it might be of mild interest to people who are concerned about their poodle being able to carry a duck out of the water. UKC puts a higher demand on teeth than AKC, also. I don't see a problem with a poodle missing one or even two of those little premolars. So many of them are missing a couple of those.
> 
> Did you notice that if your dog was missing teeth and you chose to report it there was no charge at all. :act-up:
> 
> I don't see many poodle people using this database.


Hello there again, just how many teeth should a poodle have lol. Just so that when I get mine I can count them lol. Thanks Seriously though...


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I'm not sure. LOL. I know they don't have nearly the number of baby teeth that they have adult teeth. Poodle also have issues with base narrow jaws along with missing teeth. There are many on line sources for you to check the number of teeth.


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## Apres Argent (Aug 9, 2010)

*Data base*

I just had one done when I was doing testing. It is important because it will show trends and give breeders a way to breed for full dentition. We had a full mouth of teeth! :amen:


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## Rayah-QualitySPs (Aug 31, 2010)

Countryboy said:


> I'm thinkin' of forming the FDB . . . the Frank Database. All of u that have problems with other forum members must report these problems to me.
> 
> Oh . . . and by the way . . there will be a $15 fee for single reports. $30 for problems with multiple forum members.
> 
> The simple fact that somebody sets up a database does not necessitate my involvement in it...


I think you are too funny Countryboy! You idea is a good one and you might be surprised at just how many people will register with you....but you will need to accept paypal or credit cards. VBG

The teeth database is a good thing. When breeders started testing for hips many breeders thought it was a waste of time. When poodles started getting tested for heart problems most breeders of poodles pooh pawed the need but now that testing hearts is becoming the norm we have proof that poodles had heart problems!

When a poodle has too many teeth in their mouth the overcrowding leads to tooth and gum disease, (most often seen in toy poodles). Both diseases can cause *premature death* from the bad bacteria that affects the heart valves in dogs. Just like in people. 

Standard poodles are being bred with narrower and narrower jaws. This narrowness has led to *base narrow canines* in many standard poodle teeth in puppies. Puppies *usually* outgrow this condition. Base narrow canines has been around for many years now and some breeders are producing *adult dogs* with teeth that *grow into the palate*, (upper mouth area). This condition in adult dogs leaves a *hole* in the palate for *bacteria* and bits of food to get stuck in.

Ok so I *think* the *database* is a *good thing*! Of course I haven't yet had any of my dogs mouths checked but it is on my list of things to do. I also believe that some of the FEI countries make 44 teeth mandatory in poodles.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Countryboy said:


> I think I'll continue to support Karen Mills and the PHR . . that's a useful database. I wonder what new databases that people will come up with in the future, tho.


Yes...but...how do you think all those health test results _end up_ on Karen Mills' Poodle Health Registry? That's right, the test must be conducted. Having a dental database means...OFA is now testing for dentition.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Geez! All the way from last January. Hmmmmmm....

I was much younger then. Good thing I've changed, eh?


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## A'n'A Mom (Dec 4, 2010)

CharismaticMillie said:


> on Karen Mills' Poodle Health Registry?


WRONG!!!

Karen Mills founded and runs the Poodle Pedigree Database at Poodlepedigree.com. Data input is by anyone who logs on and enters data.

Susan Fleisher founded the Poodle Health Registry and the PHR Database at phrdatabase.com is maintained by Lynn Brucker with data input by several volunteers, including me, based on stud books, OFA and other sources.

Two different groups, two different databases. Each serves its purpose and each is valuable. Please don't confuse them!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

A'n'A Mom said:


> WRONG!!!


Whoa!! It was an honest mistake. No need to yell, _please_, I tried to go off what the post I quoted said, and I obviously misinterpreted the quoted text. 



Countryboy said:


> I think I'll continue to support Karen Mills and the PHR . . that's a useful database.


See how I got confused? My sincere apologies, I should have verified the names first. 

I have used both PHR and Poodlepedigree extensively the past 2 years and agree in the unique value of each. I am absolutely horrific at names, please accept my apologies. I appreciate all of the hard work that you have done for PHR.


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## HOTW (Aug 31, 2010)

I htink Poodle breeders should egt in the habit of recording the bites of all their dogs so when a bite issue shows up they can backtrack. Many Lhasa breeders do this for their breed and it provides a lot of great info annd helps to determine which studs to breed to to correct bites.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I know there and many and sometimes horrific issues with Poodle dentition. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard the words "oh my!! He has all of his teeth" when various handlers looked at Quincy's mouth and now we are getting the same thing with Journey's mouth. So clearly this is not something they see too often.

CB...you made me howl with laughter!!! That last statement of yours was priceless! :cheers2:


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Base narrow, missing teeth and retained baby teeth problems are rampant throughout poodles. 

It can be hard to find the right combination of dogs to produce all humans want from them, but bite is so essential to the health and happiness of a dog that it should be near the top of the list when considering breeding.

Yes, Arreau, having all their teeth (including those tiny premolars) plus have a good scissors bite is something to celebrate! It is certainly not the case in many show standard poodles. You should have your dogs entered into the database.  People can change these things in the future if they 1) give a damn and 2) only breed to improve bite with as much thought as they put into conformation.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Outwest, something funny I noticed this weekend (I showed both my dogs UKC!) was that 2 of the 4 judges asked for me to show my own dog's bite. I wasn't even sure how I was supposed to do it! The judges always opened his mouth themselves when I showed Tiger AKC, granted I only showed AKC myself a handful of times as well (though more than 4~)


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I hope you had fun in UKC.  Yes, they often asked me to show the bite, too. I had a couple of judges that requested I pull the lips back on both sides. I swear they were counting teeth. LOL. I haven't seen that in AKC.


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