# Poodle vs. Boxer



## ArreauStandardPoodle

cash said:


> From those of you who have experience in the AKC show ring, what is your opinion on the competitiveness of Standard Poodles versus the Boxer ring? I know both breeds utilize Professional handlers, but what's your opinion? Hubby really loves Boxers. I love Boxers, but I think I love Spoos more.......


How do you mean?? I think a Boxer win is a lot more in the realm of reality, because what you see is what you get. There is nothing there to cover up flaws with. A Poodle is a work of art, and you can certainly hide a lot with their coat. Is this what you meant??


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## cash

Sort of, I kow the boxer grooming is WAY WAY WAY easier than poodle. Before I got into showing we were thinking of a Boxer to begin with and I was told by several people that I shouldn't start with a Boxer as a first conformation show dog because they're so political, so many pro handlers are used that coming in as a newbie I'd have very little chance of finishing one. So comparing a the boxer ring with the poodle ring and suppose you had equally correct dogs to start with, which ring will put up a newbie to the breed first? Am I making any sense?


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

I don't think there'd be any difference. The show world pretty much uses pro handlers now, and bred by dogs are likely not going to have too much of a chance. It is political no matter what breed you are showing. So I don't think there is much if any difference at all.


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## KPoos

They are probably similar to Dobermans. Dobies are a very pro handler breed at least here in the US they are. I think any breed that needs a lot of strict training and muscle mass is going to be a pro handler breed. I read a great article written by an owner handler of a doberman and he said you can go out there and compete with the pros but you and your dog had better be ready and with a breed that doesn't have hair to hide flaws, your dog had better look in specatular shape so it's a lot of commitment to exercise and training with those working breeds. With a poodle you expect them to be little clowny and funny and prancing around the ring. With a boxer, you expect them to be completely focused, very well muscled, and obedient to what you want it to do.


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## bigredpoodle

I guess I go to different show than all of you . I see lots of owner handles winning in all breeds and even at westmister there were owner handlers in the ring..You do not have to be a prfessional to win. End of story.. You need to have a nice dog impeccibly goomed and present in a professional manner Look up George Alton He puts on a GRET handling class.. He is well worth the money.. He teaches owners how to become professionals I took his class 4 times... I love boxers.... BTW


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## KPoos

bigredpoodle said:


> I guess I go to different show than all of you . I see lots of owner handles winning in all breeds and even at westmister there were owner handlers in the ring..You do not have to be a prfessional to win. End of story.. You need to have a nice dog impeccibly goomed and present in a professional manner Look up George Alton He puts on a GRET handling class.. He is well worth the money.. He teaches owners how to become professionals I took his class 4 times... I love boxers.... BTW


I'm pretty sure that's what I said, owner handlers can win but to compete with pros you had better present yourself like one. Have your dog in impeccable shape and make sure that the handling is flawless. Of course if you are picking up 1 pointers and not majors in a breed like boxers or dobies then you might not have to be so strict on yourself but at some point you are going to have to go up against a bunch of pros to get those majors so you had better do your reading, watching, training, and practice to be prepared.


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## amerique2

Hey, BRP, I googled George Alston and went to the AKC site where they have a list of all the seminars that are going on. Found he has a 2-day seminar coming up March 6 in Southern Pines, NC; another one March 13 in Salisbury, MD (doesn't say 2-day so may be only a day); and a 2-day seminar March 27 in St. Louis. I've checked out his book from the library before and would definitely like to go to his seminar. You can even attend without a dog just to audit (for some of us who have not yet gotten a poodle). By the way, there's a Poodle Seminar (Miniature) on March 17 in Independence, MO. 

There are hundreds (may be exaggerating by 30 or so!) of seminars on every imaginable breed and dog concern from breeding, to training for conformation, obedience, rally, tracking, ...Thanks, BRP, for mentioning his seminar. Now I have a great site to look up seminars.


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## bigredpoodle

He is the best I read his book before every show just to tone up.. You will not be sorry . I know that you will learn every time that you go but it is best the second time around to take a dog .. The more you can learn the better off you will be .. Sign up ! 
The stars is going and I think it might be this very same one in March .. PM her and ask how fun would that be


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

bigredpoodle said:


> I guess I go to different show than all of you . I see lots of owner handles winning in all breeds and even at westmister there were owner handlers in the ring..You do not have to be a prfessional to win. End of story.. You need to have a nice dog impeccibly goomed and present in a professional manner Look up George Alton He puts on a GRET handling class.. He is well worth the money.. He teaches owners how to become professionals I took his class 4 times... I love boxers.... BTW


But you must believe too that if Kaz walks into a ring with a dog on the end of a leash, a breeder/owner/handler or owner/handler better have a dog bordering on PERFECTION to even get a second glance from the judge! And even then it might not have a hope in you know where.


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## bigredpoodle

Why not ? You gotta start somewhere you cant just naysay all the time .. If you never get out there and try you certainly cannot win and you will never learn.. Handling classes and fun Matches.. Just do it !


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## AgilityIG

Some breeds are more political than others - It would be much easier for me to finish one of my Italian Greyhounds than my Whippet (I have shown both in the breed ring and have shown a couple other breeds for other folks).

I would guess that Kaz would NOT walk into the ring with a dog that wasn't top quality :biggrin:


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

AgilityIG said:


> Some breeds are more political than others - It would be much easier for me to finish one of my Italian Greyhounds than my Whippet (I have shown both in the breed ring and have shown a couple other breeds for other folks).
> 
> I would guess that Kaz would NOT walk into the ring with a dog that wasn't top quality :biggrin:


I am sure you are right, but you know what I mean. The judges are used to him coming in with quality dogs, so even if he DID come in with a poor quality dog, he would likely be put up because he is Kaz. Same with a lot of handlers.

Iris' breeders goes to the shows and barely talks to any of the other Whippet people because of what gooes on. She said if she got involved in the crap that goes on, she would never show again because it is vicious. And keeping her nose out of the "stuff" she quietly turns her girl into the top winning Whippet in Canada in 2008. Love it. More fuel for their fire!!


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## AgilityIG

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> I am sure you are right, but youy know what I mean. The judges are used to him coming in with quality dogs, so even if he DID come in with a poor quality dog, he would likely be put up because he is Kaz. Same with a lot of handlers.
> 
> Iris' breeders goes to the shows and barely talks to any of the other Whippet people because of what gooes on. She said if she got involved in the crap that goes on, she would never show again because it is vicious. And keeping her nose out of the "stuff" she quietly turns her girl into the top winning Whippet in Canada in 2008. Love it. More fuel for their fire!!


I know exactly what you mean - there is so much political stuff that goes on at breed shows - it's unreal. My BIL is a professional handler and it's crazy the stuff that people say and do. I'll stick to performance events :biggrin:


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## bigredpoodle

I talked with all the other exibitors at the show that was the fun part . Looking at the dogs asking questions and sharing in each other wins and losses. Crying for each other when we lost a dog .. I cannot imagine having to be like that ..How awful ! I have found the poodle people to be quite kind....Everywhere..... I have been to the Las Vegas Specialty the Phoenix Specialty and several other all breed shows and all was positive ...I guess the world is what you make it ..


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

bigredpoodle said:


> I talked with all the other exibitors at the show that was the fun part . Looking at the dogs asking questions and sharing in each other wins and losses. Crying for each other when we lost a dog .. I cannot imagine having to be like that ..How awful ! I have found the poodle people to be quite kind....Everywhere..... I have been to the Las Vegas Specialty the Phoenix Specialty and several other all breed shows and all was positive ...I guess the world is what you make it ..


Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha!!!!


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## KPoos

bigredpoodle said:


> I talked with all the other exibitors at the show that was the fun part . Looking at the dogs asking questions and sharing in each other wins and losses. Crying for each other when we lost a dog .. I cannot imagine having to be like that ..How awful ! I have found the poodle people to be quite kind....Everywhere..... I have been to the Las Vegas Specialty the Phoenix Specialty and several other all breed shows and all was positive ...I guess the world is what you make it ..


Oh were you competing in these shows? Boy putting a positive spin on something that everyone KNOWS is very political and can be extremely catty is one way to go I guess.:wacko:


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## bigredpoodle

Yes I did compete in these shows..


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## roxy25

I think if you live in a state where not a lot of shows occur you will see owner handlers only. The pros try to get majors so they go to more populated shows. I know in CA the only owner handler dogs I see are Irish water spaniels lol. Some hounds breeds and a few from the sporting group.

Pros are every where in CA !


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## KPoos

roxy25 said:


> I think if you live in a state where not a lot of shows occur you will see owner handlers only. The pros try to get majors so they go to more populated shows. I know in CA the only owner handler dogs I see are Irish water spaniels lol. Some hounds breeds and a few from the sporting group.
> 
> Pros are every where in CA !


Yeah tons of owner handlers at the specialty shows too.:doh: I'm not saying they aren't out there but this "sport" is run with pros. If they didn't win they wouldn't get paid and therefore have no profession.


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## wishpoo

> I know in CA the only owner handler dogs I see are Irish water spaniels lol.


I am telling you guys IWS is way to go LMAO ! I think that a lot of Welsh Springers are also shown by breeders and owners, and some Bierdies :rolffleyes: Actually - perhaps any rare breed is in that category :rolffleyes:

But - regarding Poodles and CA - LMAO - you must have a lobotomy to enter a ring as a novice and stay sane :bump2:

I know of CA breeders who show on the East Coast exclusively LMAO so they do not have to deal with "whatever" is part of a show ring in CA - even though they use professional handlers LOL


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

KPoos said:


> Yeah tons of owner handlers at the specialty shows too.:doh: I'm not saying they aren't out there but this "sport" is run with pros. If they didn't win they wouldn't get paid and therefore have no profession.


OMG..here too. The handlers are known by first name only. I don't very often go to shows and could tell you the names of eight to ten who you see in class after class after class after class. You look at Dawins show photos. It isn't Lisa Goodwin or any of her dogs owners showing those dogs, and on Facebook, their photos are coming up every day...another champ and another, and another. They are gorgeous, and they have won fair and square, I think owner/handlers are rarer here too than in the US.


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## bigredpoodle

So essentially what you are telling all the folk on this forum , that want to show their own dogs.. Forget it you will never win You have no chance or hope up against the professionals because they do this for a living right? 
I say bull. I have done it and intend to do it again Several others that own Poodles are doing it right now and have in the past . 
I agree with Roxy tho in California dog shows are big business...They always have been The California ladies use to say that they were coming to Arizona for cheap majors  
I will always encourage the owner handler . There is nothing like finishing your own dog... Especially out of the BBE . The last two show I was at WD and WB came out of the BBE, for those that don't know that is Bred By Exhibitor class..Only Breeder / Owners can show in this class No Pros...Unless they are the breeder of the dog of course..You guys are stacking all dog show against the eukanuba and Westminster shows . They are not all like that .. Until you really get out there ( Except CA :0) You will not know what I am talking about ....Dog shows can be fun and learning experience winning is a bonus.. I intent to show in an HCC because I refuse to confine my dogs..So we will see ....If my knees hold up that is ..


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

bigredpoodle said:


> So essentially what you are telling all the folk on this forum , that want to show their own dogs.. Forget it you will never win You have no chance or hope up against the professionals because they do this for a living right?
> I say bull. I have done it and intend to do it again Several others that own Poodles are doing it right now and have in the past .
> I agree with Roxy tho in California dog shows are big business...They always have been The California ladies use to say that they were coming to Arizona for cheap majors
> I will always encourage the owner handler . There is nothing like finishing your own dog... Especially out of the BBE . The last two show I was at WD and WB came out of the BBE, for those that don't know that is Bred By Exhibitor class..Only Breeder / Owners can show in this class No Pros...Unless they are the breeder of the dog of course..You guys are stacking all dog show against the eukanuba and Westminster shows . They are not all like that .. Until you really get out there ( Except CA :0) You will not know what I am talking about ....Dog shows can be fun and learning experience winning is a bonus.. I intent to show in an HCC because I refuse to confine my dogs..So we will see ....If my knees hold up that is ..


You can read into this or misconstrue it however you wish. If it it something someone would like to do, and they can afford to keep showing and showing and showing,and don't mind maintaining that coat, and have it possibly take an extremely long time to gain their dogs championship over the pros, then they should definately go for it. Or, they may be fortunate enough to live in an area where there are less pros and more owner/handlers. Or they may be able to afford to travel to areas where there is a higher ratio of owner/handlers. Or they may decide they can get the same commaraderie in obedience or agility or rally, where the coat isn't a neccessity, and the dog is actually judged, without the possibilty of the handler being part of the equation. It is a fun, learning experience, but it is also political and back stabbing, and you need to be prepared to take the bad with the good, spend a ton of money, devote an incredible amount of time into coat care, and possibly still not do anything but make friends with a select few and become experienced.

In my experience, the most wonderful pairings in the ring are the dog and the owner/handler. The dog LOVES this person, looks at it's owner differently, they seem to be one, the dog wanting to do anything to please its master. But, unfortunately, that doesn't seem too hold a lot of weight with the judges.


It will be interesting to see if you feel the same way after showing Poodles to their AKC championship. Not Setters. Poodles. I HAVE been out there, and am not a novice who hasn't experienced it. If I showed my Whippets, maybe it would be different. I doubt it, but maybe. But I know what it is like in Poodles, and it is political and sometimes extremely disheartening. How many years have you been involved in Standard Poodles? Not Setters. Poodles. How many years have you shown Standard Poodles? Not Setters. Poodles. How many championships have you gotten on your Standard Poodles? Not Setters. Poodles.Setters and Standard Poodles are two entirely different stories, and comparing your experiences in Setters to what is being discussed about Standard Poodles could be (maybe not) like comparing raising cats to dogs. We have seen on here that the experience in IGs is different to the experience in Whippets, so just because your experience in Setters was as it was, does not mean it will be the same for you in Standard Poodles.

From the time we began showing Standard Poodles when I was about seven, until I was about sixteen, it was fun, it was nearly all breeder/owner handled dogs and everyone rooted for one another and egged each other on, encouraging, supporting and genuinely happy for one another. Thjen it changed. And it was no longer fun. Our dogs still won, but the atmospshere was entirely different, everyone sniping about everyone else...it was harder to win now, so a lot of the good times and fun was lost. It has evolved now to the point where the breeder/owner handled dog is a rarity, so it has turned entirely around from how it used to be. Though I have not personally shown a dog for quite a number of years, I have never lost touch with the Standard Poodle show world because of my Mother's involvement with Bibelot Poodles, and because of my Mother's continuing attmepts at showing her dogs. I supported her in her attempts, attended shows with her when I was able, and still attend outdoor shows from time to time, so for 47 years I have been involved in the showing of Standard Poodles in one aspect or another. And what it has become is something that is neither appealing or attractive to me personally.


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## bigredpoodle

I have been involved with poodles 10 years now a relatively short time I know But having dabbled here and there with the show with poodles I am truly seeing the same thing.
And you know this from showing now right? I could ask you the same thing Cherie...How many of your dogs are you showing now ,,,,not in the 60"s but now ? You have obviously been to the dog shows recenty and talked with people and passed out business cards as per your prevoius post .....Why not enter ?????.......I have been just last summer and am still finding the same atmosphere BTW.... I have no setters that I am showing right now only poodles The setters are all dead .except for the rescue that i have and he is far from being show quality  But we love him anyway.......I do not remember being specific in my prevoius posts *in this thread *to setters? ..... The comraderie that was there and all of my old friends in POODLES as well as setters are still there so ? ... I guess if winning is the ONLY thing then perhaps you should get a handler.. But if it is about making friends, being with your buddy and networking with other breeders then owner handler is the way to go..... I am sorry that you had such a bad experience. I did not ...I had a great experience and I want everyone that wants to show owner handler to know about it....Does it matter what the breed was ? Really? I had fun and still do. I do have bad knees (Joined curves this year hoping to make them better ) and I am *very* far from ANYTHING now so my showing is a bit limited ....But this will not stop me. And you are correct you will not finish a dog overnight .. True ! But then you could spend thousands on a handler and not finish either.. So ....The point is what? 
As I said before life is what you make it....Take it whatever way you want I am not going to debate this with you . This is *my story *and I am stickin to it  This was my experience .....I had so much freakin fun ! TA TA carry on

So back to the origination of the thread. Show what you feel confident with go to handling classes learn from everyone that you can and go to the shows And once again I love Boxers my son has had two. 
I remember meeting the top Boxer in the country at the Tucson dogs shows and he was stunning....Would be much easier to show because of coat for sure .. I love the Dobies too Especiall a nice liver OOH LAH LAH .......I guess I just love dogs period....


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## spoospirit

_As everyone knows, Dianne and I are new to owner/handling in the poodle ring. My experience in the four shows that I have been to is that there are a few that are friendly and willing to share information with you. At ring side, no one talks to anyone. You could cut the stress in the air with a knife. It is not a relaxed atmosphere that encourages newbies to succeed. Most winners are professionally handled. We were lucky to show under a judge this time around who looked at the dog and and not who was handling it. I know that this is not the norm here. I see the same pro-handlers at all of the shows we go to and they are always in the win. But, I will not let this discourage me from showing my own dogs. At least, not at this point.

If this does become a discouraging experience, I will show in performance classes only._


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## bigredpoodle

spoospirit said:


> _As everyone knows, Dianne and I are new to owner/handling in the poodle ring. My experience in the four shows that I have been to is that there are a few that are friendly and willing to share information with you. At ring side, no one talks to anyone. You could cut the stress in the air with a knife. It is not a relaxed atmosphere that encourages newbies to succeed. Most winners are professionally handled. We were lucky to show under a judge this time around who looked at the dog and and not who was handling it. I know that this is not the norm here. I see the same pro-handlers at all of the shows we go to and they are always in the win. But, I will not let this discourage me from showing my own dogs. At least, not at this point.
> 
> If this does become a discouraging experience, I will show in performance classes only._


Keep on Keepin on .. You will make friends.. They figure you are just a flash in the pan . Here today gone tomorrow.. Prove them wrong ... The handlers win because they have had the training and they do it EVERY day .. So get the training ... And do it as much as you can


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

spoospirit said:


> _As everyone knows, Dianne and I are new to owner/handling in the poodle ring. My experience in the four shows that I have been to is that there are a few that are friendly and willing to share information with you. At ring side, no one talks to anyone. You could cut the stress in the air with a knife. It is not a relaxed atmosphere that encourages newbies to succeed. Most winners are professionally handled. We were lucky to show under a judge this time around who looked at the dog and and not who was handling it. I know that this is not the norm here. I see the same pro-handlers at all of the shows we go to and they are always in the win. But, I will not let this discourage me from showing my own dogs. At least, not at this point.
> 
> If this does become a discouraging experience, I will show in performance classes only._


Good for you Spoospirit. You and Diane have the right mindset. You KNOW this could be difficult, but will give it a go, and if it turns out to be too stressful or you realize it just isn't going to happen, it is not the end of the world. Performance events are definately fairer and it is the dog that is judged. You have a girl there, who unless the judges are blind or blatantly biased, should do well. If Chantal isn't getting points relatively quickly, then my suspicions are correct, but my God, she will make one stunning performance dog!!!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

bigredpoodle said:


> I have been involved with poodles 10 years now a relatively short time I know But having dabbled here and there with the show with poodles I am truly seeing the same thing.
> And you know this from showing now right? I could ask you the same thing Cherie...How many of your dogs are you showing now ,,,,not in the 60"s but now ? You have obviously been to the dog shows recenty and talked with people and passed out business cards as per your prevoius post .....Why not enter ?????.......I have been just last summer and am still finding the same atmosphere BTW.... I have no setters that I am showing right now only poodles The setters are all dead .except for the rescue that i have and he is far from being show quality  But we love him anyway.......I do not remember being specific in my prevoius posts *in this thread *to setters? ..... The comraderie that was there and all of my old friends in POODLES as well as setters are still there so ? ... I guess if winning is the ONLY thing then perhaps you should get a handler.. But if it is about making friends, being with your buddy and networking with other breeders then owner handler is the way to go..... I am sorry that you had such a bad experience. I did not ...I had a great experience and I want everyone that wants to show owner handler to know about it....Does it matter what the breed was ? Really? I had fun and still do. I do have bad knees (Joined curves this year hoping to make them better ) and I am *very* far from ANYTHING now so my showing is a bit limited ....But this will not stop me. And you are correct you will not finish a dog overnight .. True ! But then you could spend thousands on a handler and not finish either.. So ....The point is what?
> As I said before life is what you make it....Take it whatever way you want I am not going to debate this with you . This is *my story *and I am stickin to it  This was my experience .....I had so much freakin fun ! TA TA carry on
> 
> So back to the origination of the thread. Show what you feel confident with go to handling classes learn from everyone that you can and go to the shows And once again I love Boxers my son has had two.
> I remember meeting the top Boxer in the country at the Tucson dogs shows and he was stunning....Would be much easier to show because of coat for sure .. I love the Dobies too Especiall a nice liver OOH LAH LAH .......I guess I just love dogs period....


My experiences in showing, personally, ended when they did because of the changes that began to take place in the mid seventies. Once it became the norm for handlers to be showing dogs, everything became different, and it was then not something I, personally, wished to pursue anymore. But, I didn't lose touch with the people I knew from way back when, and still was involved in one aspect or another. If you recall, I also posted in a thread on cheating, that even my sweet Mother, who wanted "one more champion before she died" came home from the Poodle Club of Canada Show" and promptly clipped down her two Poos in show coat. This after helping a handler break down two Spoos, and seeing extensions and wiggies all over the table. She was NOT prepared to cheat to win, so decided another champ was not important to her, if that was what she had to do to win. This is part of the reason, though I attend outdoor shows from time to time, that I have no interest in showing at this time. Always though, my involvement in showing, has been in Standard Poodles, whether it was me showing, my mother showing, or either of us encouraging someone else we knew who was showing, it was ALWAYS Poodles.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

I guess some of this should answer the OP's original question. If you get a Boxer to show, you do not have the coat maintenance to deal with. You cannot have the same degree of cheating, because there is not the coat to hide the flaws, and a Boxer would look pretty silly in a wiggie or extensions. You will likely still have the politics, but you will have a better chance at doing it saving some dollars because of the coat difference, and if you are prepared to do it knowing you may not ever win against the pros (but you might), and just make up your mind to enjoy yourself, make some friends and have some fun, and have the disposable income to take the risk, then if I were you, I would look at a Boxer to show.


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## Trillium

bigredpoodle said:


> I have been involved with poodles 10 years now a relatively short time I know But having dabbled here and there with the show with poodles I am truly seeing the same thing.
> 
> 
> Just out of curiousity I've got to ask how may years have you been actively showing poodles and how many years have you been breeding them? Its always good to know what experience people have when they are giving you advice.


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## bigredpoodle

Trillium said:


> bigredpoodle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been involved with poodles 10 years now a relatively short time I know But having dabbled here and there with the show with poodles I am truly seeing the same thing.
> 
> 
> Just out of curiousity I've got to ask how may years have you been actively showing poodles and how many years have you been breeding them? Its always good to know what experience people have when they are giving you advice.
> 
> 
> 
> Showing On and off for the entire ten years Man have I ever learned ... It sort of crossed over witht he Irish ... Started with our cream girl Nikki then I had a silver Male then my reds.. But the reds are all pretty young.. I have not been breeding for very long as I truly had no interest until I met my first red ....Then I knew that I had a quest..
> How about you ? How long have you been showing and breeding ?
Click to expand...


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

bigredpoodle said:


> Trillium said:
> 
> 
> 
> Showing On and off for the entire ten years Man have I ever learned ... It sort of crossed over witht he Irish ... Started with our cream girl Nikki then I had a silver Male then my reds.. But the reds are all pretty young.. I have not been breeding for very long as I truly had no interest until I met my first red ....Then I knew that I had a quest..
> How about you ? How long have you been showing and breeding ?
> 
> 
> 
> Are the cream girl and silver male champions then?? What are their registered names? Do you think Rojo is too young to show at nearly four? Did you show Sadie? Is she a champ?
Click to expand...


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## roxy25

Other than the grooming you will see pros with boxers. In my conformation class I went to there was a lady there who has a boxer. She looked like a pro but was not winning and its probably because she is not know or that her bitch was masculine. IMO you would think her dog would have been CH already she has been showing her for a while now and I forgot how many points she needs. 

I agree with wishpoo rare breeds are going to have owner handlers, Breeds like poodles hell no lol. I am not saying it can't be done but over the many years I been going to AKC shows I see nothing but handlers. UKC is all owners mostly but you get a ch with out competition so its like :wacko:

Me and my sister and my friend are the only owner handlers at the show for poodles. I been learning every ones names and can list the poodle handlers, I can also list other handlers with other breeds. When I go to jack bradshaw's website all i see in results is agents :fish:

BRP ( not to pick on you but) 
I also agree that poodles and setters are not the same when showing. You have no titles on your poodles. Enzo has no title either and I am not saying that it can't be done but poodles are a whole another ball game.


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## cash

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> I guess some of this should answer the OP's original question. If you get a Boxer to show, you do not have the coat maintenance to deal with. You cannot have the same degree of cheating, because there is not the coat to hide the flaws, and a Boxer would look pretty silly in a wiggie or extensions. You will likely still have the politics, but you will have a better chance at doing it saving some dollars because of the coat difference, and if you are prepared to do it knowing you may not ever win against the pros (but you might), and just make up your mind to enjoy yourself, make some friends and have some fun, and have the disposable income to take the risk, then if I were you, I would look at a Boxer to show.


This is the type of answer I was looking for. If you read it it shows the opinion of comparing boxers to poodles in the conformatin show ring. There are others who have posted who have stuck to the topic and for that I thank you. 

Sorry gals, but I wasn't looking for a debate or for anyone to poke or pick at anyone else.... If you would like to post your opinion on my original topic I would love to hear it!

Thanks


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## roxy25

cash said:


> This is the type of answer I was looking for. If you read it it shows the opinion of comparing boxers to poodles in the conformatin show ring. There are others who have posted who have stuck to the topic and for that I thank you.
> 
> Sorry gals, but I wasn't looking for a debate or for anyone to poke or pick at anyone else.... If you would like to post your opinion on my original topic I would love to hear it!
> 
> Thanks


If you decide to get a boxer I say make sure you get a good dog. As long as you get a good dog , I would not worry about the competition so much. Take classes like me and my sister get to know handlers and breeders at the shows, they will help you. I just know its hard to show anything in CA under owner handler and I think owner handler is a big accomplishment. 

Breeder owner handler is even sweeter !


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## bigredpoodle

Sorry it turned out that way I was trying to encourage you !


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## KPoos

I already said what I wanted to say in the beginning of this thread. In my opinion working dogs are going to need a certain type of person to own them and train them. Let me find that article written by an owner/handler that was showing a dobie.


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## roxy25

O I wanted to add this also Cash when looking into a new breed read the breed standard, and then look up who is winning or what breeder has BIS or BISS dogs so you can get an idea of what to look for. 

This website here helps 
http://www.caninechronicle.com/Statistics/ ( you can look up the top dogs )


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## cash

Roxy, you and I posted at the same time. 

I've handled two Belgians to their AKC CH, again, not the same as poodles or boxers, I do realize that! Whatever I end up with, I will show myself. At least to begin with. I've got a few years to decide and I love doing the research almost as much as actually getting the puppy but if someone were to put a show puppy in my hands right now and say show it, right now I wouldn't care about the breed, I'd just be so excited to get back in the ring!


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## bigredpoodle

Right on Cash !


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## thestars

amerique2 said:


> Hey, BRP, I googled George Alston and went to the AKC site where they have a list of all the seminars that are going on. Found he has a 2-day seminar coming up March 6 in Southern Pines, NC; another one March 13 in Salisbury, MD (doesn't say 2-day so may be only a day); and a 2-day seminar March 27 in St. Louis. I've checked out his book from the library before and would definitely like to go to his seminar. You can even attend without a dog just to audit (for some of us who have not yet gotten a poodle). By the way, there's a Poodle Seminar (Miniature) on March 17 in Independence, MO.
> 
> There are hundreds (may be exaggerating by 30 or so!) of seminars on every imaginable breed and dog concern from breeding, to training for conformation, obedience, rally, tracking, ...Thanks, BRP, for mentioning his seminar. Now I have a great site to look up seminars.


I'm going to the March seminar. I have read his book cover to cover and made notes in it. Seminars are a great learning place and you'll also meet with breeders and handlers and have more time to chat before, at breaks and after the seminar. I have meet many people through these types of events. Even got great tips from Pro handlers there as it is more relaxed and everyone there is interested in learning the same thing.

BTW - All dogs have grooming to do at a show. Just go to the AKC shows and walk around the grooming area. short hair dogs are usually being chalked or trimmed with strippers etc. Pick the dog you want to put the time into. Mind you line combing a poodle regularly in show coat takes up time but then again training a boxer to have the nice muscle structure is time consuming to. It's like a cup of tea, pick your flavor and go for it!


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## roxy25

cash said:


> Roxy, you and I posted at the same time.
> 
> I've handled two Belgians to their AKC CH, again, not the same as poodles or boxers, I do realize that! Whatever I end up with, I will show myself. At least to begin with. I've got a few years to decide and I love doing the research almost as much as actually getting the puppy but if someone were to put a show puppy in my hands right now and say show it, right now I wouldn't care about the breed, I'd just be so excited to get back in the ring!


What I posted was not towards you sorry lol 

I am glad you are excited to show again ! Please keep us updated on what you end up with. Can I send you Enzo ? lol


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

thestars said:


> I'm going to the March seminar. I have read his book cover to cover and made notes in it. Seminars are a great learning place and you'll also meet with breeders and handlers and have more time to chat before, at breaks and after the seminar. I have meet many people through these types of events. Even got great tips from Pro handlers there as it is more relaxed and everyone there is interested in learning the same thing.
> 
> BTW - All dogs have grooming to do at a show. Just go to the AKC shows and walk around the grooming area. short hair dogs are usually being chalked or trimmed with strippers etc. Pick the dog you want to put the time into. Mind you line combing a poodle regularly in show coat takes up time but then again training a boxer to have the nice muscle structure is time consuming to. It's like a cup of tea, pick your flavor and go for it!


Shouldn't a Spoo have well muscled back ends? So, there is that in them too.

Way to go Cash. I hope you find your dream dog, and enjoy the entire process. If getting into the ring is what you want, go for a low maintenance dog and just wallow in the showing without all of the other stuff involved. Haved fun, whatever you do!


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## KPoos

thestars said:


> I'm going to the March seminar. I have read his book cover to cover and made notes in it. Seminars are a great learning place and you'll also meet with breeders and handlers and have more time to chat before, at breaks and after the seminar. I have meet many people through these types of events. Even got great tips from Pro handlers there as it is more relaxed and everyone there is interested in learning the same thing.
> 
> BTW - All dogs have grooming to do at a show. Just go to the AKC shows and walk around the grooming area. short hair dogs are usually being chalked or trimmed with strippers etc. Pick the dog you want to put the time into. Mind you line combing a poodle regularly in show coat takes up time but then again training a boxer to have the nice muscle structure is time consuming to. It's like a cup of tea, pick your flavor and go for it!


Most short hair dogs are prepped before the show and then there are minimal things done at the show. Did you read the thread about what it takes to get a poodle ring ready? I think that gives a good example of what goes into a show day for a poodle. The smaller the poodle the less time obviously but still a lot of work.


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## cash

The only problem with my Belgians is that they finished so quickly I didn't get in the ring with them as much as I wanted... lol Heck of a problem to have, huh! I never thought I would, but I am 1/2 way thinking about them again. Just 1/2 way though.... I really, really like the spoo personality... At least the one Cash has!


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## cash

roxy25 said:


> What I posted was not towards you sorry lol
> 
> I am glad you are excited to show again ! Please keep us updated on what you end up with. Can I send you Enzo ? lol


Sure, send him this way! Oh, but remember, I'm still learning and practicing on the coat care and clipping!!!!!!


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## roxy25

cash said:


> The only problem with my Belgians is that they finished so quickly I didn't get in the ring with them as much as I wanted... lol Heck of a problem to have, huh! I never thought I would, but I am 1/2 way thinking about them again. Just 1/2 way though.... I really, really like the spoo personality... At least the one Cash has!


LMAO 

That must be nice ! I wish it was like that for poodles ! My friend who handles amstaffs does nothing to his dogs and they are smooth coat. he does not use chalk because if its a good dog its a good dog. Some people with short hair breeds don't do anything. It just depends on the person. If i get an amstaffs I wont be using chalk just a bath and we are ready to go !


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## roxy25

cash said:


> Sure, send him this way! Oh, but remember, I'm still learning and practicing on the coat care and clipping!!!!!!


:fish: lol 

get some practice in with Cash !


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

cash said:


> The only problem with my Belgians is that they finished so quickly I didn't get in the ring with them as much as I wanted... lol Heck of a problem to have, huh! I never thought I would, but I am 1/2 way thinking about them again. Just 1/2 way though.... I really, really like the spoo personality... At least the one Cash has!


I hear ya'. But showing and preparing a dog for show are two different aspects. Do you think you could handle all the work involved? What about a toy or mini? A lot less time involved in looking after those sizes.


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## cash

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> I hear ya'. But showing and preparing a dog for show are two different aspects. Do you think you could handle all the work involved? What about a toy or mini? A lot less time involved in looking after those sizes.


That's one of the things I am taking my time to determine. I don't want to jump into something and not be able to do what I set out to do, but I also don't want to say no to a breed and find that I could have done it.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

cash said:


> That's one of the things I am taking my time to determine. I don't want to jump into something and not be able to do what I set out to do, but I also don't want to say no to a breed and find that I could have done it.


There are lots of minis out there with the same beautiful dispositions as their bigger cousins. I am rooting for you whatever you decide.


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## cash

Thanks!


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## AgilityIG

cash said:


> From those of you who have experience in the AKC show ring, what is your opinion on the competitiveness of Standard Poodles versus the Boxer ring? I know both breeds utilize Professional handlers, but what's your opinion? Hubby really loves Boxers. I love Boxers, but I think I love Spoos more.......


We've done a lot of talking about what breed you want to show, but ultimately it should REALLY be about what breed you want to LIVE with. A dog's show career is such a small part of it's life in comparison to the whole picture. Just a thought for ya :biggrin:


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## KPoos

AgilityIG said:


> We've done a lot of talking about what breed you want to show, but ultimately it should REALLY be about what breed you want to LIVE with. A dog's show career is such a small part of it's life in comparison to the whole picture. Just a thought for ya :biggrin:


So true great point!


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## bigredpoodle

A very good point at the end of the day you do have to live with them....


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## cash

Exactly, which is why I said I really, really like the poodle personality! I'm keeping in mind my husband's likes and dislikes and which is why I brought up the boxer again, since everyone in my household will live with the dog.


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