# I want to love my puppy



## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)

Quincy is 14 weeks today and is quite the handful! He’s a handsome, smart guy who is humping My leg while nipping my butt (no laughing ) he comes at me over and over until I’m about to lose my mind. I have tried everything to stop this behavior but am unsuccessful. It’s really hurting our relationship. While he can do this at any given time he primarily does this early in the morning and last thing in the evening (both times when I am most vulnerable) he does not do this to my husband only to me.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

When you say "everything" what exactly have you tried, how consistently and for how long? What happens if you walk out of the room and shut the door on him? And do so repeatedly? Or put him on a leash? Or completely ignore him (not easy, I know, when your bum is being nipped by those sharp puppy teeth - Poppy did it for a while and it _hurt!_). Habits that are self rewarding and long established take some considerable time to change - at 14 weeks I suspect you simply have not yet had time to persevere for long enough.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Ooh yeah, that's annoying. Bad puppy!

This assault is happening in several steps:

He gets into your personal space
He jumps up on you
He wraps his front legs around you
He bites
By the time he's got to the biting stage you have already missed several opportunities to redirect him. I personally would implement a zero jumping up policy for now. Aside from the issue of humping, it's just bad manners for even a little dog to jump up uninvited. Most people don't appreciate muddy pawprints on their clothes.

This site and the Internet are full of advice on how to stop your dog from jumping. Me personally, I would give the dog something else to do that isn't jumping. Sitting is good. Sitting down in front of you gets him a treat, ear scritches, the offer of a toy, or something else wonderful.
In contrast, jumping up on you should make you turn instantly into a slippery unclimbable mountain. Turn sideways, poke your knee out, cock your heel, do whatever you need to make him slide to the floor. Push him away if he doesn't take the hint. Put him in the next room and shut the door for 30 seconds if he is persistent. He wants your attention, so a few moments of not getting attention will make him wonder what he did to lose it. At his age a consistent reaction from you is much more important than a severe reaction. Keep it simple. Puppy jumps; puppy gets the cold shoulder for 30 seconds.


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## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)

That sounds reasonable, I keep trying but he is crazy persistent


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## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)

I’ve tried distracting him by going in a sit and rewarding, adjusting my body so he slides off - which he doesn’t because he teeth are hanging in to my pants, saying off and gently pushing him off - good boy when he hits the floor on all 4. Saying nothing and pushing him off. Putting him in his crate. Those are a few


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Have you tried covering yourself with an object ? Not to hit, but just to gently keep him away ? Like a golf club. After a while, just seeing the golf club near you might deter him.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Puppies are challenging. Some days mine felt like 50% cute fluff, 25% teeth, 20% stomach, and 5% brain. 

I agree with Cowpony, but would also add to pay attention WHEN this is occurring. My puppy was terrible at regulating her energy and going for naps. If I found her becoming exceptionally bitey, it was a good sign that she was desperately in need of a nap, so I would pop her in her crate or on my bed for a bit. When she woke up, i usually had my sweet puppy back, instead of a toothy monster.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Puppies are challenging. Some days mine felt like 50% cute fluff, 25% teeth, 20% stomach, and 5% brain.
> 
> I agree with Cowpony, but would also add to pay attention WHEN this is occurring. My puppy was terrible at regulating her energy and going for naps. If I found her becoming exceptionally bitey, it was a good sign that she was desperately in need of a nap, so I would pop her in her crate or on my bed for a bit. When she woke up, i usually had my sweet puppy back, instead of a toothy monster.


Good add on! Galen's worst behavior is in the early evening. He's like a toddler that is too tired to know he needs to go to bed.

If it's any comfort, our nickname for Galen is The Little Monster. Because, well, he's not always fun to be around. One of the owners of another puppy from the same breeder keeps leaving another-day-with-my-perfect-puppy posts on Facebook. I see them and I'm, like, "I hate you, woman," LOL.


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## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)

That made me laugh so hard!


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## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)

cowpony said:


> Good add on! Galen's worst behavior is in the early evening. He's like a toddler that is too tired to know he needs to go to bed.
> 
> If it's any comfort, our nickname for Galen is The Little Monster. Because, well, he's not always fun to be around. One of the owners of another puppy from the same breeder keeps leaving another-day-with-my-perfect-puppy posts on Facebook. I see them and I'm, like, "I hate you, woman," LOL.


His worst times are first thing AM and last thing PM I could buy into the fact that the PM is tired but the other time is before he even eats breakfast!


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Misha's nickname was Tasmanian Devil at that age. It sounds like your puppy is engaging in this behavior when he is in typical overexcitement time periods. Try to think of it like this... your puppy is a tiny baby with barely any control over his emotions and excitement. He easily gets pushed over the excitement threshold and has to do something with that energy. It could be zooming or playing tug but he loves you and often directs it on you. He doesn't know how to do that in a nice way yet. So you get the attacking and humping. It's okay. It's normal. There are many ways of addressing it. But generally it will still take time because he has a puppy brain and this is a hard thing to learn. To a hammer, everything looks like a nail. A puppy sees himself as a mouth. And everything is a chew toy. The 'be a tree' game didn't work for me. My dog didn't care if I engaged. He was too riled up. I just put him away in his pen and didn't let him out until he was calm. Redirection with toys is good. Tug is especially useful for puppy energy. Have enough toys that they are always easy to reach.

Also now is a good time to start working hard on basic obedience and impulse control. Leave It is a good way to introduce this. If you can get him in a puppy class with a _good_ trainer I highly recommend it.

Deep breaths. You don't have to love this behavior. You love the dog you know he will become.


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## Michigan Gal (Jun 4, 2019)

I might spray water in his face. It has worked with my kitten using his claws on me. But, some dogs like he spray water. Another approach is to be very mean and rage (roar ferociously) at him. If raging works it should only take a couple of times.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Hi all - in case anyone is confused, I've merged the two threads "I want to love my puppy" and "Every Day is Hump Day!" (Great title for a thread, BTW. ) Same puppy, same naughty behavior, so it makes sense to have the advice in the same thread.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

McSuzie said:


> His worst times are first thing AM and last thing PM I could buy into the fact that the PM is tired but the other time is before he even eats breakfast!


For the AM attacks, some focused play time might help. If Quincy is just completely revved up, he might not be able to settle down until he's burned some energy. You don't want to let him keep acting like a little thug, but you can't expect him to just sit pretty and sing with the choir while his brain is on hiatus. In another thread I described the following clicker training exercise as a suggestion to someone whose puppy kept biting her husband:

_Your husband's unhappiness with the situation is probably contributing to the problems. Being a young creature, she wants attention. If she can't get good attention, she will settle for bad. She will keep trying to push his buttons until he reacts.

Games are a really good way to channel bad behavior into good behavior. Here's an example. Earlier this week my husband asked me how to stop out puppy from biting him. The little twerp had lunged, caught my husband with a sharp little puppy tooth, and drawn blood. When I went outside I found the puppy acting like a complete maniac. He tried to hump my leg. He jumped and tried to bite my hands. It was pretty obvious how he has slipped and nipped my husband. He was just wired.

The first thing I did was to shift my leg so he bounced off my knee, hard. That ended the humping attempt. Next I put my hands in my pockets. That ended the hand biting game. Then, since he clearly wanted to play hard, I did some challenging off leash heeling with him. I walked and ran all over our yard. I jumped up on benches and rocks. I climbed stairs. I changed directions abruptly. Every time I did something that require him to think and adjust, I looked down to my left. If I saw a puppy looking back up at me I would click and give him a treat.

The first couple times my hand came out of my pocket he tried to nip. Then he soon figured out there was no reward in nipping. The reward only came when he put himself at my left heel. He started working really hard to follow along as I moved around the yard. To me, this was training. To him, this was a game of chase in which he got treats when he caught me the right way. After 15 minutes of this work my very bad puppy was acting like a very good puppy.No anger, no punishment, just play._


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## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Misha's nickname was Tasmanian Devil at that age. It sounds like your puppy is engaging in this behavior when he is in typical overexcitement time periods. Try to think of it like this... your puppy is a tiny baby with barely any control over his emotions and excitement. He easily gets pushed over the excitement threshold and has to do something with that energy. It could be zooming or playing tug but he loves you and often directs it on you. He doesn't know how to do that in a nice way yet. So you get the attacking and humping. It's okay. It's normal. There are many ways of addressing it. But generally it will still take time because he has a puppy brain and this is a hard thing to learn. To a hammer, everything looks like a nail. A puppy sees himself as a mouth. And everything is a chew toy. The 'be a tree' game didn't work for me. My dog didn't care if I engaged. He was too riled up. I just put him away in his pen and didn't let him out until he was calm. Redirection with toys is good. Tug is especially useful for puppy energy. Have enough toys that they are always easy to reach.
> 
> Also now is a good time to start working hard on basic obedience and impulse control. Leave It is a good way to introduce this. If you can get him in a puppy class with a _good_ trainer I highly recommend it.
> 
> Deep breaths. You don't have to love this behavior. You love the dog you know he will become.


Thank you, your post made me tear up, I really want to have that sweet boy. I’ve raised a lot of dogs and have never felt this challenged - of course with each dog I was older than the last and I gets patience diminishes with age. The hard part for me is to react calmly by the 15th time he’s thrown his body at me, I feel bad at how angry I get inside while this is happening and although I don’t show it I imagine he must feel that vibe. I’ve tried putting him in the crate when this happens but he’s back at within a few moments of getting back out


cowpony said:


> For the AM attacks, some focused play time might help. If Quincy is just completely revved up, he might not be able to settle down until he's burned some energy. You don't want to let him keep acting like a little thug, but you can't expect him to just sit pretty and sing with the choir while his brain is on hiatus. In another thread I described the following clicker training exercise as a suggestion to someone whose puppy kept biting her husband:
> 
> _Your husband's unhappiness with the situation is probably contributing to the problems. Being a young creature, she wants attention. If she can't get good attention, she will settle for bad. She will keep trying to push his buttons until he reacts.
> 
> ...


thats so great! I wish I had the energy to do that at 6:15 AM before my coffee! Maybe I will have to just try


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Pushing puppy Peggy, kneeing puppy Peggy, screeching at puppy Peggy, engaging in any way with puppy Peggy....

It all sent her through the roof when she was like that. Physical contact especially is just roughhousing to a puppy, so be careful. You might inadvertently reinforce this particular "game."

If being absolutely boring doesn't work, remove yourself from the situation and then try to think about how to avoid the situation altogether next time.

For example, one member mentioned her puppy always went wild in the backyard when she tried to end play. The easiest solution would be to avoid the backyard for a week or two so puppy doesn't get to keep rehearsing that behaviour. It's amazing how quickly puppies can move on from behaviours that seem impossible to break.

Are you working with a trainer or are you enrolled in a puppy class? What does puppy's average day look like? 

Sometimes it's easier to treat the symptoms (overexcited puppy!) by addressing some of the precipitating factors.

P.S. It took me a good while to love Peggy. I was perfectly capable of caring for her in the meantime, so I won't feel bad about that and you shouldn't either. The bond will come. Just google "puppy blues." Suuuper normal, I promise.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I just recalled that this is your first poodle, correct? If so, it's possible you're using some training techniques that work well with other breeds, but are less successful (or worse—damaging!) with these sensitive, intelligent poodles of ours. Sometimes Peggy feels like a whole other species. If she's rewarded for something even one time, even inadvertently, you can bet she'll be doing it again....and again.......and again.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

Normie greets me each morning when I leave the bedroom. His impulse is to jump up to get to me, but I gently knee him, sit in a chair and bend over to pet him while calmly telling him I can only pet dogs that have four feet on the floor.

He's pretty much caught on.

When he jumps up other times, we just say 'four on the floor' and apply the knee as needed. But 'four on the floor' if successful has to be followed by petting.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

The thing with punishment is that if it works, it WORKS. Like, if a poodle were to sniff the inside of a hot oven and burn her nose, the chances of her ever sticking her nose in there again would be close to zero.

So if you're kneeing your dog in the chest and they keep jumping up, it's likely not being interpreted the way you intend. Or their motivation is so strong (e.g. desperate attempt at appeasing you or getting your attention) they will climb _any_ mountain necessary to reach their goal.

It's like yelling at a dog for barking at the front door: Has that ever worked? More likely, it winds the dog up more (and raises your blood pressure). I give into this occasionally, and am well aware it's more a release of tension for me than anything. If it worked, it would have worked long ago. 

Similarly, kneeing to an overexcited puppy can easily be misconstrued as roughhousing. "Woo hoo! Human contact! More! More! Wheeeee!" It also puts you off balance, leaning you backwards and inviting the dog to come even closer.

I don't claim to have all the answers on this. But the realization that punishment typically works swiftly (or not at all) was a real eye-opener for me. 

My most recent personal example would be Peggy's old (terrible) habit of nosing me HARD in the face. After repeat injury to my increasingly tender nose, the next time she did it, my fist went up as a pure protective reflex....and she essentially punched herself in the face.

That behaviour immediately disappeared.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

PeggyTheParti said:


> The thing with punishment is that if it works, it WORKS. Like, if a poodle were to sniff the inside of a hot oven and burn her nose, the chances of her ever sticking her nose in there again would be close to zero.
> 
> So if you're kneeing your dog in the chest and they keep jumping up, it's likely not being interpreted the way you intend. Or their motivation is so strong (e.g. desperate attempt at appeasing you or getting your attention) they will climb _any_ mountain necessary to reach their goal.
> 
> ...


Are you viewing gently moving a dog to the floor with your knee as punishment?

It's the advice our trainer gave and she was strongly opposed to punishment.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dianaleez said:


> Are you viewing gently moving a dog to the floor with your knee as punishment?
> 
> It's the advice our trainer gave and she was strongly opposed to punishment.


Kneeing would be classified as "positive punishment" — positive as in _adding_ something rather than taking something away, and punishment as in attempting to _reduce_ the likelihood of a behaviour rather than encouraging (or reinforcing) it.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around a lot of this stuff, so I hope I'm not confusing you. Here's a more detailed explanation from a pro:









What Is Positive Punishment in Dog Training?


Everything you need to know about the use of positive punishment in dog training.




www.companionanimalpsychology.com


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## Teddy’s mom (May 20, 2020)

Teddy is 5 months old and I called him savage puppy. It was rough till about 4..4 1/2 months. I’ve posted some ‘help me’ posts about his biting. Is this new behavior or has he always done this?


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Kneeing would be classified as "positive punishment" — positive as in _adding_ something rather than taking something away, and punishment as in attempting to _reduce_ the likelihood of a behaviour rather than encouraging (or reinforcing) it.
> 
> I'm still trying to wrap my head around a lot of this stuff, so I hope I'm not confusing you. Here's a more detailed explanation from a pro:
> 
> ...


I'm married to a behavioral psychologist. I have this stuff coming out my ears! (Where it's probably garbled.)

He'd call it 'negative reinforcement' rather than punishment. We can agree that attention and petting for 'four on the floor' are positive reinforcement. It's what both dog and owner want. I just wouldn't choose to do it at 7 AM.

Too much attention to undesired behavior creates more issues. Life is complicated...


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## Teddy’s mom (May 20, 2020)

Also just recently have teddy and I formed a bond. I posted a while ago about his lack of affection which he’s been changing lately and let’s us love on him and he sits with us. It’s taken awhile like since 8 weeks.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dianaleez said:


> I'm married to a behavioral psychologist. I have this stuff coming out my ears! (Where it's probably garbled.)
> 
> He'd call it 'negative reinforcement' rather than punishment. We can agree that attention and petting for 'four on the floor' are positive reinforcement. It's what both dog and owner want. I just wouldn't choose to do it at 7 AM.
> 
> Too much attention to undesired behavior creates more issues. Life is complicated...


Lol. I can imagine his expertise might be both extremely helpful and occasionally extremely wearying. Certainly useful for dog training, though!

I suppose how you perform the "kneeing" and how it's perceived by your dog could affect how it's classified. If it's a steady pressure that your dog finds unpleasant, removing that pressure would be negative reinforcement: "You stop jumping on me, and the bad thing goes away!"

I've typically seen it performed more as a swift jab, though. And 9 times out of 10, the dog gets even more amped up.

(McSuzie, I hope your takeaway from this is that we're all just muddling through, trying to figure out what works best with our dogs.  If you look around and it seems like every dog but yours is polite and docile, that's probably because those are the dogs that get taken out in public the most! Many of the rest are relegated to the yard. But you're an experienced dog owner, and you'll crack the poodle code. I have faith! And with that work and progress, and each tiny new glimmer of insight, will come waves of love.)


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## Fenris-wolf (Apr 17, 2018)

I would try walking into another room and closing the door behind you when he does this. One time Sisko had bit me while we were playing and I didn't say anything I just grad the rope toy and got up and left for like 5 to 10 minutes. Sisko has not bitten me since. I wish I had done that when he was tiny Sisko😔 It probably could have saved my clothes😖


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## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I just recalled that this is your first poodle, correct? If so, it's possible you're using some training techniques that work well with other breeds, but are less successful (or worse—damaging!) with these sensitive, intelligent poodles of ours. Sometimes Peggy feels like a whole other species. If she's rewarded for something even one time, even inadvertently, you can bet she'll be doing it again....and again.......and again.


Yes my first poodle, I raised a couple of rotties. I have been working with a trainer one on one as I haven’t been able to find any puppy classes in my area due to covid.
At his age most of my training techniques are just plain old positive reinforcement but this lunging at me, humping and nipping at me has me really thrown and upset. I’ve not experienced it before and he can be home with my husband all day and be an angel / I walk in and he turns into psycho poodle


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

McSuzie said:


> Yes my first poodle, I raised a couple of rotties. I have been working with a trainer one on one as I haven’t been able to find any puppy classes in my area due to covid.
> At his age most of my training techniques are just plain old positive reinforcement but this lunging at me, humping and nipping at me has me really thrown and upset. I’ve not experienced it before and he can be home with my husband all day and be an angel / I walk in and he turns into psycho poodle


Is it just when you walk in after not seeing him for a while? If so, that really does just sound like an overexcited poodle who has not yet learned impulse control. Peggy's still working on this!

Have you tried walking in with a toy and just sticking it straight in his mouth? Or tossing it?

Or enter with a pocket full of treats and quickly feed one straight down into his mouth before he has a chance to jump up (repeating as necessary).

Asking for a sit first might be asking too much for him in these moments. But scattering treats on the floor is another easy redirect.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

McSuzie said:


> Yes my first poodle, I raised a couple of rotties. I have been working with a trainer one on one as I haven’t been able to find any puppy classes in my area due to covid.
> At his age most of my training techniques are just plain old positive reinforcement but this lunging at me, humping and nipping at me has me really thrown and upset. I’ve not experienced it before and he can be home with my husband all day and be an angel / I walk in and he turns into psycho poodle


Sorry McSuzie - I now have "Psycho Poodle - Qu'est-ce que c'est?" stuck in my head... You may have found a new theme song for your puppy...

I'm starting to get the strong feeling that poodles aren't "easy" dogs to have as puppies.... Maybe it's self selection as to who posts here, but lots of people find them overwhelming. They are also very mouthy dogs, they chew and nibble on people a LOT. I allowed gentle nibbles as a young puppy to teach bite inhibition, but I had a big struggle to stop the more painful ones. Even at more than 1.5 years, I still manage my dog's energy to keep her from mouthing me when she gets over excited. It very rarely happens but it still COULD, so I'm careful about it.

I was very lucky with Annie - other than some expected bitey-monster issues she was a near perfect puppy. People would stop me in the street and insist 4 month old Annie must be a 2 year old she was so calm and well behaved and polite (now, at more than 1.5, they insist she must be 6 months). The vet she went to for puppy shots said she was the calmest, most well behaved and friendly puppy she'd ever met, that kind of puppy. And I STILL had a few days of overexhaustion where I sat there and cried and felt terrible for not "bonding" with her and loving her yet.

Puppies are hard. Bonding takes time.

I wonder - if he's an angel all day with your husband, maybe he is over tired when you get home? Could you insist your husband crates him for an hour or two before you get home so that you, too get to experience the miracle that is an angel puppy? I wonder if he's already tired from a long day of angelhood, then he gets crazy-wired-excited to see you, and loses all brains and self control. 

If someone else hasn't suggested it - have you looked at the "Its Yer Choice" game ? It's great for teaching dogs self control and patience, even puppies. 

Good luck, hope you keep posting here (and share more puppy pictures, too)


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## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Lol. I can imagine his expertise might be both extremely helpful and occasionally extremely wearying. Certainly useful for dog training, though!
> 
> I suppose how you perform the "kneeing" and how it's perceived by your dog could affect how it's classified. If it's a steady pressure that your dog finds unpleasant, removing that pressure would be negative reinforcement: "You stop jumping on me, and the bad thing goes away!"
> 
> ...


Thank you so much, I really hope so - I’m having trouble seeing beyond this but tomorrow is another day


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## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Sorry McSuzie - I now have "Psycho Poodle - Qu'est-ce que c'est?" stuck in my head... You may have found a new theme song for your puppy...
> 
> I'm starting to get the strong feeling that poodles aren't "easy" dogs to have as puppies.... Maybe it's self selection as to who posts here, but lots of people find them overwhelming. They are also very mouthy dogs, they chew and nibble on people a LOT. I allowed gentle nibbles as a young puppy to teach bite inhibition, but I had a big struggle to stop the more painful ones. Even at more than 1.5 years, I still manage my dog's energy to keep her from mouthing me when she gets over excited. It very rarely happens but it still COULD, so I'm careful about it.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I do feel overwhelmed and sad for not feeling bonded. What is it’s yer choice?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

McSuzie said:


> Thank you so much, I really hope so - I’m having trouble seeing beyond this but tomorrow is another day


I can relate very much to how defeated you're feeling. One thing to keep in mind is that poodles are mind readers. (Probably more like body readers.) If you're anxious, they're likely to pick up on that and will bend over backwards to appease you or "help" correct your energy.

Maybe take some time for yourself before you greet him next. Go for a walk. Just get away and do something non-Poodle for a bit. Then take a deep breath (or ten) and hit the reset button. One of these days he's going to delight you.


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## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Sorry McSuzie - I now have "Psycho Poodle - Qu'est-ce que c'est?" stuck in my head... You may have found a new theme song for your puppy...
> 
> I'm starting to get the strong feeling that poodles aren't "easy" dogs to have as puppies.... Maybe it's self selection as to who posts here, but lots of people find them overwhelming. They are also very mouthy dogs, they chew and nibble on people a LOT. I allowed gentle nibbles as a young puppy to teach bite inhibition, but I had a big struggle to stop the more painful ones. Even at more than 1.5 years, I still manage my dog's energy to keep her from mouthing me when she gets over excited. It very rarely happens but it still COULD, so I'm careful about it.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I do feel overwhelmed and sad for not feeling bonded. What is it’s yer choice


Fenris-wolf said:


> I would try walking into another room and closing the door behind you when he does this. One time Sisko had bit me while we were playing and I didn't say anything I just grad the rope toy and got up and left for like 5 to 10 minutes. Sisko has not bitten me since. I wish I had done that when he was tiny Sisko😔 It probably could have saved my clothes😖


if I were to leave the room for 10 mins he would either sit outside the door crying or eat my couch lol


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

It's yer Choice is a game. Or a series of games, popularized by Susan Garrett. Lily CD re has some instructions on here somewhere...

At the most basic - you hold a treat in your hand with it closed. The dog noses at it, bites your hand, etc. No treat. The dog backs off , you open your hand. Dog goes for the treat - snap your hand closed. Dog backs off again, you open your hand, the dog remains backed off, you say "yes!" or "good! and give them the treat. As time goes on, you can raise the criteria so ask for longer amounts of time, focus on you, etc. I often line the treats up on my knee or something. Basically, you are teaching them to pay attention to you, not the treat, and that good things come to calm puppies.

There are a million videos and blog posts - here's one with a puppy.


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## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I can relate very much to how defeated you're feeling. One thing to keep in mind is that poodles are mind readers. (Probably more like body readers.) If you're anxious, they're likely to pick up on that and will bend over backwards to appease you or "help" correct your energy.
> 
> Maybe take some time for yourself before you greet him next. Go for a walk. Just get away and do something non-Poodle for a bit. Then take a deep breath (or ten) and hit the reset button. One of these days he's going to delight you.


I so hope so


For Want of Poodle said:


> It's yer Choice is a game. Or a series of games, popularized by Susan Garrett. Lily CD re has some instructions on here somewhere...
> 
> At the most basic - you hold a treat in your hand with it closed. The dog noses at it, bites your hand, etc. No treat. The dog backs off , you open your hand. Dog goes for the treat - snap your hand closed. Dog backs off again, you open your hand, the dog remains backed off, you say "yes!" or "good! and give them the treat. As time goes on, you can raise the criteria so ask for longer amounts of time, focus on you, etc. I often line the treats up on my knee or something. Basically, you are teaching them to pay attention to you, not the treat, and that good things come to calm puppies.
> 
> There are a million videos and blog posts - here's one with a puppy.


thank you!


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## Fenris-wolf (Apr 17, 2018)

McSuzie said:


> if I were to leave the room for 10 mins he would either sit outside the door cry


😖 okay, maybe just walk away from him, but still be in the room.


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## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)

Fenris-wolf said:


> 😖 okay, maybe just walk away from him, but still be in the room.


I’ll try it!


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## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)

McSuzie said:


> I’ll try it!


This morning at 6 am, Quincy had his outdoor time, when we came in and I started to prepare his breakfast the “assaults” started. I did some quick sits and downs. After we did that I bent over to scoop his food and (music from psycho here please) he nipped me in the butt and the food fell to the floor. I walked to the nearest door - the bathroom and went in closing the door behind him. I stayed there for maybe 5 mins with him crying on the other side. I came out and he promptly started humping. I went back in and this time after crying he somehow managed to get the door open!!
At this point I was able to feed him and before he could get nuts again I took him for a long walk. He’s only just started going for walks so that’s pretty exciting for him.
It’s 10 am now and he’s napping. Hallelujah! 
Not looking forward to his renewed energy when he wakes!


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

I'm glad that worked for you (sort of). That's how I dealt with Annie's obnoxiousness too. That, or I put HER in the bathroom with the door closed. It works great for a few reasons - not the least of which is it gives the human a break from the obnoxious puppy to calm down.

As for feeding - I play a version of it's yer choice with dog food too, and have since long before I learned the name of the game. He might be old enough/dinner motivated enough to learn it ? Puppies who are sitting nicely get the food slowly lowered. If they jump up - I stand up. Sit, food lowers... etc. Eventually, it gets put on the floor, and they get permission to eat. I hate having dogs crowd me when I'm feeding them and in the end, our dogs usually back off when I even walk near them while they eat (sometimes I throw goodies on the food dish while they eat if they back off).


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I think more people can identify with how you feel than not. The perfect puppy, housebroken in a week, never chewed anything, never tried to assault you when you got home from work...at least one of those things has been a fail at first for each of our dogs. I had Lily in my heart for 20 years before I found her and brought her home. It took the better part of a year though for me to be convinced that I had been really quite insane for wanting her or any other dog for that matter. She tore many items of clothing and I had nicks all over my hands and forearms more days than not. I dreaded entering my house. BF was working on house renovations and home all the time. He often let the puppies loose and she always molested me if she was loose when I got through the door. 

One day I decided that I had to change myself to get her to change. I took a walk up and down our side street and did some deep breathing exercises before I went in the house. What my goal was was to wash away my anxiety about how she was going to act before she had a chance to interact with me. I matched my exterior relaxed with a smile exterior to a calm interior. She came charging up to me but rather than jumping all over me she stopped, looked a bit confused as if to ask what do I do, I don't know who you are. I was able to get in a quick hello and sit and she sat. I was able to have a nice greeting and realized that expression about not being able to lie to a dog was true at levels I never imagined. She taught me to soothe my own mood quickly and in meaningful ways, to leave work day stresses outside in the driveway and to be relaxed at home. After that no more biting, no more attacking clothes I was currently wearing (she still took socks and undies when she had the chance) and the start of our real journey with a connected and happy relationship we have now enjoyed for well over ten years.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Something else you could try is a flirt pole. Think fishing pole for dogs, with a toy instead of a worm on the end of the rope. I made one with a dowel rod, but you can also buy them.. There are lots of videos on how to use them. I just drag the toy in front of Galen like yarn in front of a kitten. When he pounces the chase is on. After a few swings I let him catch the toy, shake it, parade it around to show he is a mighty hunter, and then ultimately let me take it back. Lather rinse repeat until puppy is tired. I just have to make sure he doesn't get overtired and brainless. Once he is breathing really hard I stop, let him have a drink, and then work on something else like giving me a paw to shake.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

McSuzie said:


> This morning at 6 am, Quincy had his outdoor time, when we came in and I started to prepare his breakfast the “assaults” started. I did some quick sits and downs. After we did that I bent over to scoop his food and (music from psycho here please) he nipped me in the butt and the food fell to the floor. I walked to the nearest door - the bathroom and went in closing the door behind him. I stayed there for maybe 5 mins with him crying on the other side. I came out and he promptly started humping. I went back in and this time after crying he somehow managed to get the door open!!
> At this point I was able to feed him and before he could get nuts again I took him for a long walk. He’s only just started going for walks so that’s pretty exciting for him.
> It’s 10 am now and he’s napping. Hallelujah!
> Not looking forward to his renewed energy when he wakes!


Quincy sounds like a handful. I'm sorry you're frustrated. Let me see if I can help you change your morning routine and make life less stressful. The psycho dog behavior started when you reached for the food scoop. Your reaching and bending over is a cue for your dog that food is coming. Food is exciting. And being excited leads to psycho dog behavior in young poodles. Also, since this insane behavior happens around food, it is possible Quincy believes jumping and humping causes him to be fed. 

Let's change things up and see if it helps. The cue that triggers psycho dog is you bending over and scooping food. Let's get rid of the cue. Let's set Quincy up for success so he doesn't hump and jump before eating.

New Plan: Make breakfast the night before. Quincy eats in his crate, because he can't jump and hump while in a crate.

New morning routine.

Take Quincy out. Take Quincy inside. Sit and down practice. Toss treats in the crate. Send Quincy to his crate. Shut door. Get pre-made breakfast. Feed Quincy in his crate. Close the door. Open door, clip leash, and go for a walk.

One thing that helps me as a trainer, and with my own dog, is paying careful attention to what happened before things fall apart. It's hard to notice the triggers, because you're caught up in a humping biting psycho dog. But, those triggers are what help trainers figure out how to insert new behaviors.

Everything was fine and then *__* and *___* happened, and the dog went nuts. Fill in those blanks. 

Everything was fine, and then I bent over and scooped dog food, and the dog went nuts.

Change the antecedent and you change the outcome. 

You're a keen observer, McSuzie. Keep those observation skills. Look for antecedents and write them down. Fill in those blanks. Then ask for help finding solutions. I was glad you took your dog for a walk BEFORE he went nuts. Good timing on your end. That's how you do it. Rewarding correct decisions puts you on the right track. You'll get through this. It just takes time. Poodles are great dogs, but tough puppies.

Marie, KPA-CTP


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## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)

Click-N-Treat said:


> Quincy sounds like a handful. I'm sorry you're frustrated. Let me see if I can help you change your morning routine and make life less stressful. The psycho dog behavior started when you reached for the food scoop. Your reaching and bending over is a cue for your dog that food is coming. Food is exciting. And being excited leads to psycho dog behavior in young poodles. Also, since this insane behavior happens around food, it is possible Quincy believes jumping and humping causes him to be fed.
> 
> Let's change things up and see if it helps. The cue that triggers psycho dog is you bending over and scooping food. Let's get rid of the cue. Let's set Quincy up for success so he doesn't hump and jump before eating.
> 
> ...


Thank you I’ll give this a try in the morning! Honestly last night I felt completely beaten. After his dinner and potty he gets crated while we eat. Then I take him on a good long walk followed by tug or ball. And then he becomes psycho again when I finally sit down, scratching and biting my feet, trying to dig on my feet. This continues all the way through to bedtime. I’m beat, beaten by a psycho poodle, it’s humiliating and frustrating


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## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)

Sorry for the rant! Thx for listening


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I'm sorry you're not feeling a glimmer of hope yet. Have you researched puppy blues? I found it very helpful to read others' accounts of these feelings.

Regarding last night...

Do you follow Puppy Culture guidelines for puppy exercise?

At 14 weeks, sustained walking should be capped at 200 feet. Sniffy, pokey, "noodling" walks can be up to 20 minutes, but puppy always dictates the pace.

How much undisturbed sleep is Quincy getting? If it's not close to 18-20 hours, he could be chronically overtired and amped up on adrenaline.

It might be helpful if you gave us a broad overview of his average day. When you're deep _in it_ it can be so hard to troubleshoot.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

McSuzie said:


> Thank you I’ll give this a try in the morning! Honestly last night I felt completely beaten. After his dinner and potty he gets crated while we eat. Then I take him on a good long walk followed by tug or ball. And then he becomes psycho again when I finally sit down, scratching and biting my feet, trying to dig on my feet. This continues all the way through to bedtime. I’m beat, beaten by a psycho poodle, it’s humiliating and frustrating


I remember when Misha was little I would think _Thank god you're little because if you were a big dog I couldn't handle you! _I used to be able to hide on the couch where he could not reach me when he would go on a rampage. It can be so overwhelming when you're the main caretaker for a puppy. Sometimes you just want somebody to take them so you can take a nap. I remember Misha really had a breakthrough when he was about 20 weeks and our puppy class was learning "leadership" exercises and settling exercises. He went from 100% crazy to gradually learning how to control himself. I think a lot of the trouble is that their little bodies are just so full of energy and they can't figure out how to release it. Things will get better. You're in the thick of it right now but hang in there. Sometimes I think we should have zoom support sessions for threads like this.


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## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)

Oh maybe too much walk! It is a noodly sniffy walk. He sleeps 7-8 solid hours at night and quite a bit during the day while I work. I’ll slow down on the walking. He seems to enjoy it though. I can show you a typical day 
6:30 am potty
6:45 bite snd hump
7:00 breakfast 
8:00 - 8:30 walk 
8:45 - 9:00 quick puppy pushups 
9:00 - 12 perfect puppy - naps 
12:00 - 12:15 lunch 
12:15 - 1:00 train and play
1:00 - 5:45 perfect dog while mom works 
Going out to potty every 2 hours
5:45 dinner
6:00 - 6:30 potty and play
6:30 - 7:30 crate
7:30 - 8:00 walk
8:00 - 8:30 play ball and/or tug
8:30- 10:00 be as noisy and obnoxious as possible - scratching my feet, digging on my feet, nipping 
10:00 potty
10:15 hump and nip relentlessly 
10:30 good night psycho poodle 

Repeat


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Poodle puppies are hard work. I think if you shaved off all the hair, you'd discover a dog/shark hybrid. Playing gets him worked up and when he's worked up, his favorite way to deal with those over the top emotions is to jump, hump and bite. So, let's change the channel on that annoying tv show.

Some puppies need to physically beat the snot out of something. It just doesn't have to be you. I bet you could make a giant dog toy out of old jeans and old towels. Think about how you would make a scarecrow for your dog. This is something he can rip and attack and bang around. When he attacks you, as calmly as possible lead him to the big toy, and praise him for beating it up. That's a yes. I am a no.

Along side this, practice calming behaviors. The most important skill a dog can have is an off switch. Off switches don't come pre-installed on some models. You'll have to hunt through some menus to find it. You need a dog mat, pieces of boiled chicken about the size of your pinky fingernail. Place the mat on the floor and put a piece of chicken on it. After the puppy swallows the chicken, drop another on the mat. For the next five minutes, chicken pieces fall on the mat as long as the puppy stays on the mat. Leaving the mat makes the magic chicken dropping fairy stop.

That's day one. Day two, same game, only all four paws on the mat make the chicken fairy appear. Day 3, lure the dog into a down position, chicken is only available for lying down. Day 4, down on mat, chicken fairy takes one second to breathe before dropping a piece of chicken. Day 5, down on mat, chicken fairy takes a three second breather between dropping chicken. Repeat this game, inching up moments of time between the chicken fairy, until your dog is offering a five minute down between pieces of chicken. 

When do you add the word, "Go mat" or "Go bed"? You add the words the day your dog runs to the mat and lies down, waiting for the chicken fairy. That's when you name the behavior the dog is already doing. Learn concept-->Learn word for concept. Dogs brains absorb information in a more literal fashion than our own.

If you alternate getting to beat the snot out of a giant dog toy with an off switch, you'll enjoy your puppy more. Because you won't always be reacting to one crazy painful thing after the next. Instead you'll be flowing from one yes to the next yes.


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## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> I remember when Misha was little I would think _Thank god you're little because if you were a big dog I couldn't handle you! _I used to be able to hide on the couch where he could not reach me when he would go on a rampage. It can be so overwhelming when you're the main caretaker for a puppy. Sometimes you just want somebody to take them so you can take a nap. I remember Misha really had a breakthrough when he was about 20 weeks and our puppy class was learning "leadership" exercises and settling exercises. He went from 100% crazy to gradually learning how to control himself. I think a lot of the trouble is that their little bodies are just so full of energy and they can't figure out how to release it. Things will get better. You're in the thick of it right now but hang in there. Sometimes I think we should have zoom support sessions for threads like this.


Thanks it helps a lot. I never had this happen before with a puppy (or child) I find it very upsetting and (painful)


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

I like Clicks idea. I would add.... it looks like he isnt getting enough sleep. What would happen if, at 8:30 after your play session and before his nightly psycho poodle session, you stuck him in his crate for an hour or two before evening potty. I have a funny feeling he might nap then, and at minimum, not rehearse that part of his routine.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Yep. I'm thinking you've got an overtired little boy on your hands. Even if that "perfect puppy" from 1:00-5:45 is "sleeping puppy," I'm not sure his nightly sleep is long enough to be deeply restorative. What would happen if he just went to bed earlier? Would he settle into his crate and crash hard? Might be worth a try. You could just bump his evening potty to the scratching/digging/nipping timeslot and then it's puppy bedtime. Or designate an evening pre-bed snooze spot. (Peggy's was her indoor exercise pen and still sometimes is.)

And for some perspective: Peggy's training sessions at that age (aside from her weekly puppy classes) were literally 30 seconds long. Lol. Even in puppy class, she'd nail whatever we were working on in seconds and then I just had to focus on settling her while all the other puppies did dozens of reps. To this day, the settle work is what I'm most grateful for. Everything else is just icing on that puppy cake.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

It sounds like some of your worst time is in the evening. Galen acts the same way: chasing the cat, pestering Pogo, jumping on the couch, barking at us, racing around bouncing off walls, etc. We call it the witching hour. I agree it is an indication of an overtired overwrought puppy. We've learned to put him in his crate with a snack when it starts. He usually shrieks like an outraged toddler for a few minutes and then falls asleep. Now that he is six months old he is getting a little calmer and better at self regulating.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

He needs to go to bed at 8:30. At that point he has probably had just the right amount of family activity time. Rather than letting him practice the psycho behavior send him to be before he has a chance to rehearse it. And I agree with Click about not having him underfoot when you set up his breakfast. One helpful thing with predictable patterns is the people can change them for the good.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

8:30 is definitely puppy bedtime. I agree wholeheartedly.


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## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)

Click-N-Treat said:


> Poodle puppies are hard work. I think if you shaved off all the hair, you'd discover a dog/shark hybrid. Playing gets him worked up and when he's worked up, his favorite way to deal with those over the top emotions is to jump, hump and bite. So, let's change the channel on that annoying tv show.
> 
> Some puppies need to physically beat the snot out of something. It just doesn't have to be you. I bet you could make a giant dog toy out of old jeans and old towels. Think about how you would make a scarecrow for your dog. This is something he can rip and attack and bang around. When he attacks you, as calmly as possible lead him to the big toy, and praise him for beating it up. That's a yes. I am a no.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I’ll try these. Thank you again so much


For Want of Poodle said:


> I like Clicks idea. I would add.... it looks like he isnt getting enough sleep. What would happen if, at 8:30 after your play session and before his nightly psycho poodle session, you stuck him in his crate for an hour or two before evening potty. I have a funny feeling he might nap then, and at minimum, not rehearse that part of his routine.


so....that would mean putting him in the crate for a nap and then potty snd then back in the crate for bed time?


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## McSuzie (May 10, 2020)




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## Fenris-wolf (Apr 17, 2018)

McSuzie said:


> View attachment 468338


OMG so cute😢💗


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

McSuzie said:


> View attachment 468338


What an adorable mug on that little beast!


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

He looks so sweet and innocent!
And yes, even as adults my dogs all rest or sleep starting at 8 or 9, then go out for a last pee break at 10-11 before turning in for the night.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Looove him!!

It's 9pm here and Peggy just pounced on me, barked in my face, and whacked me with her paw a few times. Annnnnnnoyinnnng. But if make her sit still for a minute, I guarantee her eyes will start closing. 

Another clear indication that she's overtired is when she starts cycling through her toys, unable to really focus on anything.

Keep in mind that it's even trickier for puppies to relax right now, with these long, bright days. But being put to bed in a covered crate will help their natural melatonin kick in.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Every pup or kitten I have ever known has been prone to bedtime zoomies - just as the humans are winding down the babies get all wound up! Lots of sensible and helpful advice already that I can only echo, but remember this too will pass. And believe it or not it will be hard to remember how obnoxious he was - you may even find yourself in a few years time thinking how loely it would be to have a puppy in the house again...!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Yuppers, into crate at 8:30 and then one potty outing just before you are ready to go to bed yourself. Make it a strictly boring potty trip, no talking other than potty command if you have one and a small good dog for a prompt pee then straight back to the crate.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Yes exactly. Put them in a wind down spot, pee before bed, then put them back in their crate. The evening wind down spot doesnt HAVE to be a crate - it was often my bed when my puppy was small- but a crate might be helpful for a puppy who is determined not to shut off. Puppy in bed time between 8:30 and human sleep time is either cuddle and read a book time (like with mine) or "get stuff done while the dog is put away" time. It astonished me how much sleep my puppy needed to stay happy and cheerful and cute rather than a holy terror, easily 18 hours at that point. Any time my puppy started being a brat and leaving her didnt work, pop into the crate she went, and an hour later after a nap I had a nice dog again, like magic.


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## Phoebe’sMom (Mar 15, 2020)

Both of my dogs (2yr GSD and 10months poodle) still needs bed time to be at 9pm for them and if they are kept awake they get crazy. throwing all their toys around, chasing the cat, and baking their heads off. Usually we have cuddles till 10 on the couch while watching tv then right to bed with two zonked out pups. wishing you the best of luck finding your routine!


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