# Spoo too much to handle?



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

It depends on the individual and its drives and energy levels. I know some spoos who are very mellow and others who are over the top in energy. I don't think you should dismiss a spoo out of hand. Understand though that they are very smart and need interaction and mental challenge in addition to physical exercise to be happy and well adjusted. The timing of your post is very funny since matching dog personality to owner needs and expectations is something I just started a thread about a few minutes ago. Please see this thread for advice. http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/121346-getting-puppy-right-you.html

My Lily is a very high drive dog and she has been known to give me a run for my money (even in trial rings she can make me work pretty hard) but she loves me to pieces (as I do her) and the best thing in the world for her is to make me happy which is why we have accomplished so much together. I will never be without a spoo as long as I am physically able to care for them.

PM me if you want to talk more directly about this.


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## Beaches (Jan 25, 2014)

Hi Deanna,
We are new to Spoos but have had many dogs over 47 years of marriage. Our girl is 11 months and the greatest girl we could imagine. She is happy and loving to everyone. She is off leash most of the time (we are rural) and she has both beach and woods close by. She loves being outside with hubby when he cuts lawn or washes the car. Loves to play fetch with a ball to the point I wonder if she is part jack Russell. She was easy to housetrain and has no bad habits (counter- surfing, barking etc). She still jumps up when meeting people - sigh- but I can't imagine having any other breed from now on. I am only sorry we didn't find Spoos earlier.


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## Deanna (Dec 4, 2013)

Beaches said:


> Hi Deanna,
> We are new to Spoos but have had many dogs over 47 years of marriage. Our girl is 11 months and the greatest girl we could imagine. She is happy and loving to everyone. She is off leash most of the time (we are rural) and she has both beach and woods close by. She loves being outside with hubby when he cuts lawn or washes the car. Loves to play fetch with a ball to the point I wonder if she is part jack Russell. She was easy to housetrain and has no bad habits (counter- surfing, barking etc). She still jumps up when meeting people - sigh- but I can't imagine having any other breed from now on. I am only sorry we didn't find Spoos earlier.


I read those kind of stories about spoos so often! That's what made me so surprised to find not one, but two trainers who actually advise to pick a different breed and classify spoos as very difficult dogs...


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## Rhett'smom (Sep 23, 2012)

To chime in... I have 2 spoos and a toy... The second spoo is a puppy of 4.5 months. 
As with any breed you must must must research the breeder. Visit shows, talk to people who own them. Any one can have horror stories. Find a breeder who understands what you are looking for in temperament. It is a long process at times but well worth the effort. I have been blessed with a wonderful breeder who has brought into my life two amazing spoos Rhett (2years black male) and Scarlett (4.5 month white female).







They are "work" but the love that they give far outweighs any effort you put in!


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## Deanna (Dec 4, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> It depends on the individual and its drives and energy levels. I know some spoos who are very mellow and others who are over the top in energy. I don't think you should dismiss a spoo out of hand. Understand though that they are very smart and need interaction and mental challenge in addition to physical exercise to be happy and well adjusted. The timing of your post is very funny since matching dog personality to owner needs and expectations is something I just started a thread about a few minutes ago. Please see this thread for advice. http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/121346-getting-puppy-right-you.html
> 
> My Lily is a very high drive dog and she has been known to give me a run for my money (even in trial rings she can make me work pretty hard) but she loves me to pieces (as I do her) and the best thing in the world for her is to make me happy which is why we have accomplished so much together. I will never be without a spoo as long as I am physically able to care for them.
> 
> PM me if you want to talk more directly about this.



I'm glad you say I shouldn't dismiss them that easily, I can honestly say I'm in love with the breed. It would be painful to admit they might not be for me.

I understand all dogs (especially puppies) require a lot of time and patience, I'm willing to do all the basic obedience courses etc. But I have to keep in mind we're looking for a dog to mainly be a loving companion, by no means getting a dog to have a nice challenge. Especially the trainer telling me many of the poodles she's worked with have aggression issues really scared me, I'm not up for such a challenge. 

I'll definately take a look at that topic


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## Rhett'smom (Sep 23, 2012)

Ps ... Sometimes trainers do not like dogs who " are challenging ie smart"


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## Deanna (Dec 4, 2013)

Rhett'smom said:


> Ps ... Sometimes trainers do not like dogs who " are challenging ie smart"


I think that's exactly the reason the second trainer advised against it. "They're so difficult to own be cause they're so smart." 

How does the intelligence of a poodle make owning them so difficult? It sounds like a lot of fun to own a smart dog...


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## Rhett'smom (Sep 23, 2012)

It is a lot of fun to own a smart dog!!! They keep you on your toes!!! I have three!! So I am very quick on my toes including a 9 year old human child!!!


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## BeckyM (Nov 22, 2013)

Polly is the first poodle I've ever owned and I tell you what... I'm grateful for all that I've learned on this forum. I was prepared for the needs of a poodle. I knew that if I wanted a well behaved, family pet, I'd have to do the work. I knew poodles needed a lot of exercise but also a lot of mental stimulation. I started training her as soon as I brought her home (Kikopup on youtube is amazing!!) and I still work with her each day (she's 9 month old). She's been in 4 obedience classes so far and we're getting ready to start our 5th. 

So, with daily obedience work, games, running around outside, and a brisk walk each day... Polly is the best dog I've ever had. She's calm when she's inside because she gets enough outside exercise, she's sweet with people she knows... but a little shy at first with strangers who come in the house, she's obedient but not in a "push button" way.... more in a way of "I've decided to listen to you right now" way. She's very smart and you can see her thinking about things. I've never had a dog be so much of a partner to me instead of just a furry couch ornament. Polly knows me so well and anticipates my needs and what I'm going to do next. 

I can honestly say I'll never want another kind of dog. That said... you have to be ready for the work and the grooming. If you're dedicated to spending the time training, exercising, and grooming your spoo, you'll never regret it!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Think of having a really smart dog like having a toddler who is testing boundaries. You have to be the one in charge. I have a friend who owns a spoo (has had a number of them) who is also a professional animal handler/trainer in advertising, etc. Over the summer we were in the same class at our obedience club one day. I was having a hard time with Lily being off kilter and performing poorly. She was hopping on the floor for dropped bits of food and trying to steal treats out of other people's pockets instead of doing what I wanted her to do. My friend made the comment that she was working for herself and not for me. He was absolutely right. I instituted a tough love policy with her and asked all of my training friends who normally put lots of free attention on her not to feed her at all and to only pet her if she did sit down sit for them first. It worked very quickly to remind her that I was the source of all good activities, treats and meaningful guidance.


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

I think your trainers' advice was misguided, but to play devil's advocate, they are probably responding to years of seeing owners get a breed that is not suitable for their lifestyle, and then having to deal with the undesirable behaviors that erupt when the dog doesn't get what it needs. Then the dog winds up in the shelter, or shuffled from one house to another, and none of that is good. 

A much better way to approach it would have been to talk to you about the commitment that is involved with owning a smart, high energy dog and see if it fits your lifestyle- rather than talking down such a wonderful breed of dog. Every breed has its quirks, and good points and bad. I have never owned a spoo, but it sounds like you have a lifestyle that would work and understand the commitment. Too bad you had such a negative response :-(


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## Anniehen (Sep 13, 2014)

For many bright people, training a poodle is easy because they learn so quickly and are so attentive to their people. The thing is they learn bad habits quickly too, so if someone has no idea how to train a dog (its not rocket science and there are many good books out there), I think it might be easy to end up with problems. Then of course, trainers are more likely to see problem dogs, to happy, well trained dogs. It sounds like the trainers have only met dogs from the problem category. Most Poodles are not problems, they are fabulous.

As someone else said though, its crucial to do your research and obtain your puppy from a good breeder. See the parents, or at least the dam. If they don't appear to be of a happy disposition (the natural state of a poodle), walk away.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Good points carolinek. I also agree with Rhett's Mom about trainers who talk down certain breeds. Anyone can train an "easy" dog that is highly biddable, but most people can't figure out what to do with a dog that isn't just happy to do anything the trainer/owner asks for in exchange for a cookie or a pat on the head. For me it is the challenge of figuring the difficult dog out that makes training fun. Helping people understand their dog so they can reach a harmonious relationship is just tons of fun for me, but I can see how others would be frustrated. My best clients are those who know how to be patient and persistent. You need both to train a poodle of any size.


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## Deanna (Dec 4, 2013)

Thank you for all your replies!
As long as the dog will be happy and sweet, I'll have no trouble teaching it manners and tricks, I've read a lot into positive dog training techniques. 
Basically what I'm looking for is a well-tempered and stable dog, who won't easily be scared. I've always pictured as poodles being just that, stable and confident dogs. But the trainer portayed them as skittish, shy, unconfident, which I don't feel confident enough to train. I'm by no means an expert and looking for such a challenge of a timid dog. 

I'm very relieved to hear it depends a lot on generally putting some time in the dog, and also looking for a good breeder. A friend of mine is a professional golden retriever breeder, and she'll never allow me to get a dog from a bad breeder  So no worries there. A good breeder is definately worth the investment.


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## Anniehen (Sep 13, 2014)

Good luck Deanna, let us know what you do


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

I had one of those super high energy Standard Poodles as my first dog. He was a handful every day of his life, but oh how I miss him!

Part of me wonders if the poodles that these folks have seen are from quality breeders or if they're from a local byb who isn't as interested in producing a mentally sound dog?


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## Deanna (Dec 4, 2013)

Sparkyjoe, that is exactly what I'm wondering. Though the two poodles the trainer adopted as adults do have their pedigrees. 
I think Carolinek als has a very good point. Trainers are bound to run into the 'worst version' of the breed. Also don't get me wrong, that same trainer is thinking of buying a spoo puppy in the future, so she likes the breed enough. She just advised against inexperienced people to chose to buy a spoo, as they, in her experience, can be very much a handful (growling, biting etc).


So just to be sure, I ask once more.. Can poodles be described as stable and confident, happy and sweet peopleloving dogs as I've always pictured them, granted they're from a good breeder? Because those are the things I'm looking for


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## amarantine (Sep 5, 2014)

Hmm I have my first dog and she's still a teen so take my experience with a grain of salt. Learning rate: high. Ease of training: medium high. Confidence: good but not as stable as say, a good golden.

She picked things up crazy fast but in class, I have to work hard to keep her focused on me, not on playing with other dogs...to the point where it was mentally draining for me. Not super food motivated if there's excitement elsewhere. Prey drive turned on at about 6 months, so now she'll work for the tug, but also wants to chase bikes and runners.

Confidence...she's a little nervous about slick surfaces and automatic doors (probably not a big deal for most). Not scared of strange dogs or people! Instinctively calms down for kids. I do think she is a little more wound up, quick to react than a golden would be.

Overall she is a fantastic active first puppy ever. She does need a lot of mental energy from me, paying attention to what she sees and experiences so I can encourage the behavior I want. Part of this may also be related to city life - I have her at my parents' place now in the suburbs, and was thinking how she's so mellow a little kid could walk her...

And - my mom loves her, and she's somewhat scared of dogs 

Hope that helps!


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## Rachel76 (Feb 3, 2014)

Here's my two cents..... I think I got Hemi from a good breeder, and I socialized her with lots of people and dogs, I think by nature she is shy and standoffish with people. I love her very much and I am very glad she was not my first dog. Both her parents are therapy dogs and very tolerant, easy going, and friendly. She is great with other dogs and does not enjoy pets from strangers. She needs plenty of exercise and lots of mental stimulation but I was prepared for it. We are working hard on building her confidence and comfort level with strangers. 

Having said all that, I think her shyness is more an exception to the rule rather than the normal. I think any breed of dog could be the wrong breed for a first time dog owner. I think you seem to be doing your homework on the breed and that alone is a good sign of a responsible pet owner. Good luck I feel you can find the right spoo puppy for your lifestyle.


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## Anniehen (Sep 13, 2014)

Deanna said:


> So just to be sure, I ask once more.. Can poodles be described as stable and confident, happy and sweet peopleloving dogs as I've always pictured them, granted they're from a good breeder? Because those are the things I'm looking for


Absolutely, a well bred, healthy poodle is exactly that


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## Nora O (Sep 27, 2013)

I have two spoos - a red male, age 9 and a black female, age 8. My male is very cuddly and sweet and was very easy to train. His only issue is that he occasionally marks (he's intact). My female, on the other hand, is very high energy and would prefer to only learn what she wants to learn. I should have had her do agility - she's small for a standard (36 lbs.) and very agile. When I had her spaid, the vet told me she was the worst kind of poodle -"Extremely bright and extremely determined to have her own way". She was very skittish with strangers until recently, although very loving with her own family. I let her find her own way. Neither of my dogs has ever bit anyone. Hotspur (my boy) came from a well known breeder. I would never buy from Roz's breeder again (all she does now is doodles and her combinations are getting really strange). Find a good breeder who will work with you on finding the right puppy for you.

As far as I'm concerned, "Spoos rule"!


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

this video will give you a good idea of what amazing dogs spoos really are. The puppy in this video is 4.5 months old... and the dog's trainer is 20 months old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lW4r9wLf-E


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

I'm on my third Standard Poodle and love the breed. I also was part of a training yard for seven years, and saw my share of unruly spoo pups. They always belonged to families who were inconsistent with training. You must be willing to dedicate time on a daily basis for training and socialization, especially for the first year (minimum). I still train every day... nothing major just reinforcing manners, like sitting for meals, waiting politely at an open door, etc.. In my opinion, for what it's worth, poodles are very intolerant of what they perceive to be unfair treatment. So, my female used to take offense and she would refuse to make eye contact and stare off into space (still obeying every command in slow motion) We, jokingly referred to it as, "she's gone to her happy place and we aren't invited!" Versatility is a big plus. Two of the spoos were therapy dogs, and one is my service dog, one passed his herding instinct test and two pulled a cart. None of them came from the same breeder, but I chose better breeders with each dog and it makes a huge difference. Find a reputable breeder and be sure to let the breeder know what your expectations are for the pup; a good breeder will help match you to your pup.


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

Almost 15 years ago, when I was looking for my first dog, I had originally thought I wanted a Mini Poodle. But, after meeting a few Standards I loved their personality and ended up deciding that I could do a Standard Poodle. 

Back then I think I did everything possible wrong, from overestimating how much time/energy I could commit to training, to getting a dog from an out of state breeder who I had never met. My parents actually picked him up and brought him home to me. While they were at the breeder's house my pup's doggy Aunt actually lunged at my father and ripped his shirt. That should have been a warning sign, but I let it go. Thankfully my dog was never aggressive, but he was almost too much for me to handle.

I'm not sure that the breeder was 100% honest with me about the energy level of the pup because he was the last in the litter and I think she just wanted him gone. I actually ended up developing a better relationship with the owner of my first dog's sire than I did with the actual breeder. The sire's owner knew that the pup I got was prone to anxiety, and was a super high energy/high drive dog who probably would have been better suited to a performance home than to a first time owner who lived in a condo with no fenced yard.

Now I'm not saying that you can't get a GREAT puppy from a breeder you've never met in person, but I've learned a lot since then and when we went for this puppy I did a lot of things differently.

This time, when looking for our new puppy, I was adamant that we actually be able to travel to meet the breeder and pick out our puppy. And I was willing to walk away if I didn't feel like there was a puppy for us in the litter. Both my husband and I wanted a smaller dog, so we went with an oversized Mini/small Standard who will be around 18"/25-30lbs when full grown.

I had many conversations with the breeder about what we were looking for in a pup/dog and by the time we went to meet the breeder and pick our pup, I actually felt like I had added a friend to my life.

Now we've got a pup that multiple trainers have said they would LOVE to have. He's smart, he's active and willing to work but has an on/off switch, and he's very food motivated (he works for treats!). He's as close to bomb-proof as any dog I've ever seen, and loves everyone he's ever met. We're getting a fence put up in the next month or so, which will really help with allowing him burn off energy, but I've been exercising him on a long line and he's been able to burn off enough energy every day.

He's only 5 months old, but we started socialization early, when he was around 10-11 weeks old (just as soon as he had has his second puppy shot) and I think that was a huge help. We're now working with a trainer who specializes in CGC training and we'll hopefully be able to get that certification.

Very, very, very long story short... I think the Poodle can be a great dog for anyone. But it might not be easy. You have to put in the work to find the right dog for you, and then you have to be willing to put in the work to socialize and train that puppy so it grows into the dog you want.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Amarantine one of the most active breed rescues in my area is the golden rescue. I am friendly with one of the leaders of the group and she refers people to me for aggression, shyness and all sorts of things one would characterize as unstable. No breed has a corner on the market in being good or being skittish, etc. I think the key is in your description "good golden." I think a good poodle beats a good golden hands down in terms of being a creative and thoughtful dog. Goldens are good (like border collies) if you want a dog you can drill and always get the same response from, but poodles are awesome to work with (once you get through the puppy crazies).


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

lily cd re said:


> Goldens are good (like border collies) if you want a dog you can drill and always get the same response from, but poodles are awesome to work with (once you get through the puppy crazies).


The trainer I'm working with now has Goldens and she's super impressed with our little Poodle.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

My sister is a dog trainer and she laughed out loud when I said I was going to get one... she tried her best to talk me out of it as well. 

DON'T LISTEN ! Carley was the best gift I have ever given myself. I just hate that I waited so long and may be too old to ever get all the colors I want to try...lol

I would advice a first dog owner to make sure you go to a great breeder and let her pick the puppy for you, or get a retired, older, fully trained dog like I did. 

If you are willing to put in the time, you will be fine.


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## amarantine (Sep 5, 2014)

lily cd re said:


> I think the key is in your description "good golden." I think a good poodle beats a good golden hands down in terms of being a creative and thoughtful dog. Goldens are good (like border collies) if you want a dog you can drill and always get the same response from, but poodles are awesome to work with (once you get through the puppy crazies).


Yeah! Pup is tons of fun, responsive when she's turned on, and I am always impressed by her ability to discern different situations (kids, food on the counter, etc). But she has also been more challenging than expected, and what she wants (really wants!) isn't always what I want. On the third hand, I've consistently felt that the issues were solvable, and that's coming from a first time dog owner...

Goldens just seem a bit more unconditional and forgiving when done right; the poodle's been more of a wit with her own mind.


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## deemarie03 (Jul 7, 2014)

there has been lots of good advice so far, here's my two cents work. We have an 8 month old Mini (we've had him for a little over a month), he's our first poodle, and we absolutely adore him! Granted he has been a bit more "high energy" than I thought he would be (having never been around one til we got him!), but I love the fact that he's playful, active and so much fun. He can be all over the place one minute when our son is playing with him, but when I sit down to read he becomes as calm as can be, asleep at my feet. It does take work to train them, consistency is the key and having a relaxed, positive and confident attitude. I'm a Cesar Milan fan and believe that our dogs mirror our energy and I've seen that it's true with Jaxon. If you're ready to commit the time to exercise them, you can train your dog to be what you want it to be. I find that having an active dog has been good for me - I'm getting more exercise and fresh air  Go with your heart and good luck!


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

i don't have a poodle, let alone a spoo, but i can well envision situations in which a spoo might be too much to handle. mostly, if one is talking about a well-bred spoo, i don't think it would be about things like fear aggressive behavior; there will be some variant of sometimes exasperating behaviors in any breed and that's one reason one works with the dog. for me, the issue would be size of the dog given my own size. a dog that as a pup/teen could pull or knock me over would be an issue - mostly because it's far harder to train a dog when one is lying flat on one's back or face!


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## Tally (Jul 21, 2014)

Hi
I have a miniature named bear, I have personally found that despite extensive socialisation and good breeding bear is not fantastic with strangers, he is not aggressive, he is happy to see new people, but he will be cautious. Once you win his trust he will adore you. 

Perhaps standards are different but I have always been told that in general poodles are sensitive to new people, of course no one dog is the same. 

I would also not say they are easy to train. They learn incredibly quickly, but they generally seem to push the boundaries. I have worked with a lab before and found him to be much easier to train, and much more consistent. 

Bear is wonderful and I don't think I would ever want another breed of dog. But in all honesty if you want a easily trained dog that is (in general as a breed) great with strangers I would not go for a poodle. Their amazing but their also challenging. Of course every dog is different, but I have generally noticed that they are so smart they challenge their owners and don't instinctively trust. 

I like a challenge and if you do to then a poodle with time and effort could be your dream dog.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Vegas was literally the second dog I've ever owned. He's SO easy, absolutely not bitey, doesn't jump on people when meeting them, doesn't counter surf, can be left out of a crate when we're not home, is off leash when we're outside in the non-fenced yard.. actually all three of my poodles fit these criteria. Vienna was a rescue, and is STILL so easy.

Just be sure to get a dog from parents with good temperaments.


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## Mahlon (Jun 8, 2014)

This is a tough one to describe well in my opinion. It really comes down to the unique characteristics of the poodle, and the devotion and expectations and skill level of the owner.

There are many reasons why poodles and people have such a tight bond, from their high level of intelligence, to their dependence on humans for grooming, often clownish personalities, and beautiful (and varied) looks. As well they are such an old breed, and so varied in size that these traits have all had a very long time to "fix" within the breed, resulting in a healthy well socialized and trained dog being very social with its humans.

One thing that I didn't see others mention is the fact that the first trainer you spoke with had experience with owning adopted animals that were already a year or older. While not impossible to deal with bad habits, it can be extremely difficult and from the sounds of it, your trainer possibly rescued or adopted animals that might not have had the greatest start. I've met, and had friends who are very dog experienced who have told me stories, about dogs such as you describe. Skittish and reactive to strangers, biting when grooming or at the vet, etc. Most of the times this is the result of inexperienced or overindulgent owners. Raising a poodle is not like raising any other dog by any means. Acclimating them to be comfortable in new situations, grooming, handling, strangers, kids, and more is necessary for the life they are going to live. With their social nature, and high intelligence being separate from their people, such as being left outside the majority of the time alone, is a cruel punishment whether intended that way or not. As well they are like small children in that if not encouraged to deal with their energy in constructive ways, they will destroy or learn that bad behavior gets a reaction and attention from their humans.

I hate to classify poodles (especially standards) as non beginner dogs, as I truly feel responsible and motivated first time owners willing to put in the time and effort, and do their research can and will be successful. But if that new owner expects a dog they can leave outside alone for extended periods, not groom for weeks at a time and then take into a groomer to deal with the mats and mess, or unwilling to harness that energy and intelligence constructively, then they are going to have a very hard time, and a very confused and reactive animal within months. In the case of a standard that animal could be 70+ lbs. and come up past the waist of a grown adult, which makes dealing with problem behaviors even tougher. Obviously a misbehaving toy or mini is going to be much easier to deal with in getting past issues than a 70lb behemoth. The flip side to that though of course is that smaller dogs tend to do less well with small children especially. Toys in particular usually only really warm up to children as they get 10+ from my experience, and some minis sooner, but in general small dogs and small children don't mix. I've heard of and seen a few great examples of standards that under supervision are beyond great with small children. I think the size gives them confidence and trust, and a buffer in how much accidental abuse they can take without stress or reactivity.

From the sounds of your posts, you are willing to do what it takes, put in the time researching before hand, and doing the things needed to raise a healthy and happy pup. As others stated find a good breeder, within a few hours, and be patient for the right time and right puppy for you and your family. It takes a lot of self reflection in my opinion to be a successful poodle owner because of their high intelligence, but the pay off is so incredibly worth it. I myself like a smart dog that has an on/off switch (no border collies thank you!) but the flip side is that you have to keep them motivated to work with you, as they don't like extended repetitions, and think more for themselves, and in a complicated sense.

Hope that helps 

Dan


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

patk, if it were about muscling my dogs into what I wanted I would have turned into a little puddle or road grease about five and a half years ago. Its all in those vulcan mind tricks!


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

catherine, i was being facetious, but there is a physical aspect to training a large breed. it's not about the owner muscling the dog. most who come to pf and stay do not want to have that kind of relationship anyway. but the dog can indeed muscle the owner. teaching my 5 month old 15 pound lowchen not to jump on me (or anyone else) was easy. for someone with a much larger pup, there may be a few bruises on the human before getting to the desired point. a friend (who is about my size) complained that her sil's 6 month old lab/boxer mix almost took her eye out when it jumped up on her. 

so as folks have pointed out, energy level, temperament, how much time and thought the owner is able and willing to invest in working with the dog all come into play. maybe even more so with a large breed dog - whether a poodle or another breed - and maybe especially if one takes in an adult dog. and that from an advocate - me - of getting retired show dogs.

getting the right dog is key to having a great dog. but so is being the right owner.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

I agree with lily cd re, it's the Vulcan mind trick. When my daughter just had to have a Rottweiler; we got him as a young pup and from day one we never let that dog know that he could out muscle us. Being barely five feet tall and not physically strong, I had to rely on mind over matter. I do think that the bigger the breed, the more important it is to start training right away. It is more complicated to work with a big dog who has had no or poor training. Like most intelligent breeds poodles are always learning; they just may not be learning what you are trying to teach.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Oh patk I knew you were being facetious, which is why I answered with vulcan mind tricks. But you are right, training a big dog is very different than training a small one. I also think there can be drawbacks with training tiny dogs. For example my mom is quite tall and her mpoo is on the small side. She has had a hard time getting him to connect with her for heeling because her face is so far away from his!


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## Bizzeemamanj (Apr 14, 2014)

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but wanted to chime in with a bit of a different perspective. I have a mini, so have no spoo experience, but I do work closely with a local trainer with Cooper. She LOVES to work with poodles for the exact reason the trainer you spoke with does not. She says poodles are one of the most intelligent, eager to please breeds, so they learn quickly and they remember what they learn. She often remarks she'd rather work with a room full of poodles than any other breed.


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## SAS (Jun 16, 2013)

If you want a couch potato with no mind of its own, dont get a standard poodle.
If you have no patience for dissent and alternative ideas and no fenced yard or other opportunity to let a young dog run, i would not get a standard poodle.

However, of you want a dog that is truly a companion, that is a superb athlete, smart as a whip (by dog standards) and even seems to have a dog sense of humor, standard poodle is the way to go. It does take time and patience and it does require some willingness to give and take. A poodle is not a dog to leave alone 12 hours a day and just take out on weekends.

All that said, personalities vary. Our first spoo was in my own words 'the puppy from hell'. She was extremely high energy, had strong prey drive and very confident and independent. Not mean at all but as a trainer said, very stubborn. She loved all people and all dogs and was a magnificent athlete. In truth, she probably should have been a field dog. She'd have loved the job. But by and by, we made our peace with one another and she moved into our hearts. When she died at 14 we wanted another just like her. This time, we got another athlete, not quite as large, and not as independent or confident. She listens much better, is very affectionate but is a little wary of other dogs. She is just right for us in our senior years now. 

I have to say, dont get a dog unless you are willing to take what you get. You can specify this and that but a litter is not necessarily going to produce exactly what you ordered. If you have a big yard and time and willingness to put into the dog, i think a spoo is tops.

Btw, our yard is fenced with the invisble fence and it has worked for 3 dogs over more than 20 years. There are pros and cons but it is much cheaper than a traditional fence.


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

Deanna said:


> Hey everyone
> 
> For several years now I've been in love with the standard poodle, unfortunately not being able to buy one for myself yet. However, this week two independent dog trainers practically advised against getting a poodle.
> 
> ...


I couldn't disagree more with your trainers. Although like lily cdre said earlier Standards can range from high drive super spunky to couch potato. I've had three Standards and they have all been great dogs. They've all had individual personalities but they have all been happy, loving, sporty, cuddle hounds. Except when it's hot. Having a thick fur coat on in the summer might put me off to cuddling to. Roxy used go to work with me and we would take her to meet clients and go on sales calls with us. We photographed fine art and antiques. Couldn't do that with an aggressive, aloof, don't touch me dog. Beau had his issues but that was from a poor puppy situation before we got him but he still was a happy boy who just wanted to please. And Penny couldn't be a happier, friendlier Spoo. Seriously, everyone she meets is her new BFF.
The only thing I can imagine is these trainers have had a few bad experiences and are now generalizing a whole breed. My suggestion is to find a local Poodle club and go to their meetings, gatherings and shows and meet a few Spoos and come to your own conclusion.

Rick


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## Deanna (Dec 4, 2013)

Thank you so much for all your replies, I love reading all your stories and experiences. 

I just received a poodle breed profile, could anyone confirm or reject this list?

Suitable: nearly anything
Exercise: moderate (toy) to a lot (standard)
Care: intensive brushing, grooming every second month
Activitylevel: reasonable to very high
Guarding: good
Children: moderate (toy) to reasonable (standard)
dogs: reasonable to good
Obedience: fine
Health: HD, PRA, epilepsy
Occuring problems: fear and distrust (standard) , dominance aggression (toy) 


I am worried about the 'very high activity' and 'a lot of exercise'. Hour walk a day, nature in weekends, training courses now and then..? Perhaps going running now and then, but we are by no means a highly active family like some athletes. 

Also 'reasonable' for children, while I find it very important for the familydog not to be stressed around children and prefer a 'good' or 'very good' ranking, even though they'll never be unsupervised. 

The fear and distrust problem in standerds also sounds troublesome, but then again, every breed has its issues..

Luckily we're not in a hurry with getting a dog


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## Deanna (Dec 4, 2013)

PoodleRick said:


> I couldn't disagree more with your trainers. Although like lily cdre said earlier Standards can range from high drive super spunky to couch potato. I've had three Standards and they have all been great dogs. They've all had individual personalities but they have all been happy, loving, sporty, cuddle hounds. Except when it's hot. Having a thick fur coat on in the summer might put me off to cuddling to. Roxy used go to work with me and we would take her to meet clients and go on sales calls with us. We photographed fine art and antiques. Couldn't do that with an aggressive, aloof, don't touch me dog. Beau had his issues but that was from a poor puppy situation before we got him but he still was a happy boy who just wanted to please. And Penny couldn't be a happier, friendlier Spoo. Seriously, everyone she meets is her new BFF.
> The only thing I can imagine is these trainers have had a few bad experiences and are now generalizing a whole breed. *My suggestion is to find a local Poodle club and go to their meetings, gatherings and shows and meet a few Spoos and come to your own conclusion.*
> 
> Rick


I think that indeed is the best thing for me to do, step away from the internet and just experience the breed in real life.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

From my own experience, I can say that yes, there are crazy Poodles. I believe they are pretty rare. I personally know of one that was returned to the breeder at 8 weeks, then the breeder sold him again at 6 months, and he was returned to his breeder again because he was crazy. The woman who got him the second time had a husband who would not have this Poodle in his family. The Poodle would forget his family every time they left. When the kids came home from school, he would scream and urinate because he forgot them  He was the most beautiful spoo. OMG! and he loved loved loved his human mother and grandmother with whom he was the most devoted and loving baby  and he never forgot them... so even though he was crazy, he was amazing  My point is, you would know instantly that the puppy was ill. At least his illness wasn't dangerous. I've never seen that, personally in a spoo.

I've also observed that Poodles can be friendly enough to strangers but so bonded with their family that that's where they shine. I hope you watched my video of Bodhi (5 months old) with his toddler sibling. He is simply amazing and totally what I expect from a well trained spoo. Have fun in your search. If you get the right spoo puppy, you will be so happy 

pr


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## Deanna (Dec 4, 2013)

Poodlerunner said:


> From my own experience, I can say that yes, there are crazy Poodles. I believe they are pretty rare. I personally know of one that was returned to the breeder at 8 weeks, then the breeder sold him again at 6 months, and he was returned to his breeder again because he was crazy. The woman who got him the second time had a husband who would not have this Poodle in his family. The Poodle would forget his family every time they left. When the kids came home from school, he would scream and urinate because he forgot them  He was the most beautiful spoo. OMG! and he loved loved loved his human mother and grandmother with whom he was the most devoted and loving baby  and he never forgot them... so even though he was crazy, he was amazing  My point is, you would know instantly that the puppy was ill. At least his illness wasn't dangerous. I've never seen that, personally in a spoo.
> 
> I've also observed that Poodles can be friendly enough to strangers but so bonded with their family that that's where they shine. *I hope you watched my video of Bodhi (5 months old) with his toddler sibling. He is simply amazing and totally what I expect from a well trained spoo.* Have fun in your search. If you get the right spoo puppy, you will be so happy
> 
> pr


I actually watched the video multiple times, haha. Bodhi is absolutely beautiful, so gentle and calm. He sounds like the perfect poodle, exactly what I'm looking for.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Lily is great with kids and has no fear or distrust of anything. I see those to be at least as much about training as innate to the breed.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

Deanna said:


> I actually watched the video multiple times, haha. Bodhi is absolutely beautiful, so gentle and calm. He sounds like the perfect poodle, exactly what I'm looking for.


Bodhi was a little monster there for a while... it started at about 13 weeks which was about 2 weeks after we got him. He was trying to nip at the children and jump on them and knock them over.

pr


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## Anniehen (Sep 13, 2014)

A well bred, well socialised Standard Poodle, raised with children, can be expected to be excellent with children and should have no mistrust or fear issues. Any breed can have these, but the Standard Poodle is less likely to than others. They also missed out sense of humour. I have never found the love of life, love of people and sense humour in any other breed come close to that in a 
Standard Poodle. As for exercise. They vary a lot. As someone above said, some are coach potatoes. I had two litter sisters. As different from each other as they could be. Jasmine's favourite thing was snoozing. She enjoyed a walk. She would run off the lead for a while, then come back and walk along beside me. Stella (who my heart still breaks for as I only lost her two weeks ago) was high energy. She would run and run as long as she could. Even with a high energy poodle though, in the house, they tend to lie quietly. They like to be with you and look in every bag, drawer of cupboard available, but they only bounce around if something is happening e.g. someone arrives home, calls at the house, there is mention of a walk etc. 

Also, mine did very well with one 30 minute walk a day in the park by my house (mostly free running) and time in the garden (that would not be enough for a dog that would be left alone for long periods, but that situation isn't good for any dog) They don't have the exercise needs of a Husky. You'll be fine with the exercise time you have planned.


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## Mahlon (Jun 8, 2014)

First and foremost, I totally agree with the idea of going out and meeting poodles of all sizes, at events, at classes (most will let you audit for free aka just watch), shows, etc. That combined with talking and learning on here should be a recipe for success, and I encourage all sizes of poodles because as a breed, there are a lot more shared characteristics than differences.



Deanna said:


> ...I just received a poodle breed profile, could anyone confirm or reject this list?
> 
> Suitable: nearly anything
> Exercise: moderate (toy) to a lot (standard)
> ...


Suitable: There isn't a type of dog event that I know of that at least some poodles have loved to participate in, and even excelled at. (ALL)

Exercise: For most dogs I think that term works well, for poodles not so well as physical is just as important as mental exertion/stimulation. These dogs need interaction of all types and challenges. If you rate them based on this and not just physical exercise it would definitely be (HIGH). The wonderful part about poodles though is that they tend to be able to turn it off, and enjoy calm house time, and the other flip side is that mental challenges, games, and training can tire them out extremely well. 

Grooming: There is not another dog who requires more grooming care than a poodle IMO. Its the tradeoff for the hypoallergenic qualities and the non shedding. Even if you use a groomer, you can't expect to do nothing at home. The longer the hair as well, the more time and energy (and money) intensive it will be. As well, a huge part of being a responsible poodle owner is making sure the dogs are acclimated to the sensations of being handled (feet, ears, tail, etc.), the noises and sensations of being groomed (brushing, sound of clippers, sound of dremel, etc.), and all around just comfortable with the situation, as its going to be a part of their lives for a long time, even if kept same length all over and short. (VERY HIGH)

Activity: I think that reasonable covers the entire poodle spectrum in my humble opinion. Poodles are not border collies, or weimaraners and while they have plenty of energy, its very focused and not excessive as in the above mentioned breeds. With SPOOs they are big dogs, and they are active, but they also like downtime which is important for me, and I know its common to see people mentioning often that their standards know how to relax in the house, and play hard when its time outside. Because of the high intelligence though, its important to make sure they do not get bored, as this can lead to problem behaviors as well as destruction. (REASONABLE)

Guarding: I think good is a great rating in this regard. A SPOO usually has a very deep bark, and they are very keyed in to their surroundings, and will generally do well at alerting. As well they are fast, protective, and smart and can be wary of strangers, but not to the point of being a fault usually if well trained and healthy. (GOOD)

Dogs: Reasonable to good sounds right to me as well. Not all poodles are going to be ultra outgoing with other dogs, but its very rare in a well socialized and healthy poodle (IMO) to see dog aggression that is overly intense. (REASONABLE->GOOD)

Children: I would change it to Toy (BAD), Mini (REASONABLE), Standard (GOOD). Especially if talking about children under the age of 10, and this is from my own experience. Its not that the little dogs hate children, its because they are smaller and more at risk of being manhandled, and don't have the buffer with their small stature to take any abuse at all. In my opinion, a well trained and socialized Standard should be great around children usually. This isn't to say a puppy won't be a challenge with little children, but especially as a grown dog they tend to be very patient, and they have the size to them that they can take some accidental abuse without being hurt or becoming reactive.

Obedience: (GOOD). Modern obedience classes were originally created for poodles (iirc) and there's not many dogs that can excel in this area as well as a poodle. 

Health: (REASONABLE - > VERY GOOD) There are issues as with any breed, but due to the amount of time they have been domesticated by us people, and the average expected lifespans for their size, they are usually on the top end of the spectrum. We had a mini who lived past 20 years old, and its not uncommon for toys to be up there too. For a spoo that's more in the 12-15 range, but that is still unbelievably long for a large breed.

Occuring problems: IMO what you had for this section wasn't a generalization for poodles I agree with at all. Standards tend to be a bit standoffish with strangers until the owner reassures them, but I wouldn't say this is due to fear/distrust as much as their intelligence and working through the new situation intellectually.

Sorry for the length but figured I'd address your list as best I can.

-Dan


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## Anniehen (Sep 13, 2014)

Yep, they can be a little standoffish with both dog and human strangers, unless its another Poodle. Once past about 2-years-old, they don't feel the need to be every stranger's best friend and many Standards have a preference for their own breed.


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## Deanna (Dec 4, 2013)

Dan, thank you so much for taking your time writing the reply! I am very relieved as my concerns are definately gone now  .

In the first place I feared not being able to meet the exercise requirements (I know quite many people who walk their dog 2-3 hours per day, something I'm just not up to), draining energy through (clicker) training in the house sounds like a lot of fun. I can handle 'reasonable' physical exercise  . What you and many other people in this topic say about standards & children also reassured me a lot, as it's a big deal to me. Though my biggest fear was the entire temperament the trainer used to describe her expierence with spoos. I'm very very very relieved to read from multiple people that those traits should not be seen in a well-bred poodle, given the preferences of temperament I'll voice to the breeder 


Also, the standoffish temperament towards strangers, I'm quite happy with. My parent's dog looves every dog and human, to the point of dragging me across the street to greet whomever she sees fit. Teaching her some selfcontrol has been a struggle. As long as the 'standoffish' doesn't become fear(aggression), I see it as a very positive trait to have.


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## Anniehen (Sep 13, 2014)

Deanna said:


> Also, the standoffish temperament towards strangers, I'm quite happy with. My parent's dog looves every dog and human, to the point of dragging me across the street to greet whomever she sees fit. Teaching her some selfcontrol has been a struggle. As long as the 'standoffish' doesn't become fear(aggression), I see it as a very positive trait to have.


The source is from a different place to fear/aggression. Its simply lack of of tremendous interest in people and dogs that are not 'significant' to them. They don't all have it to that extent.


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## Marcie (Aug 2, 2011)

I volunteer at Poodle Rescue of Houston and have seen abused and neglected standards come in and have never seen one that is aggressive, pushy or mean spirited as your trainer described. I have seen them frightened (neglected or abused), depressed (usually owner surrenders and who could blame them for being depressed) but as soon as they are showered with attention and love they blossom in to sweet, loving dogs that want nothing more than to please. They seem to thrive on petting and attention and want nothing more than to be in your company with their head under your hand. 

One of our older volunteers both in years and length of volunteering at PRH adopted a beautiful young chocolate standard that is a LOVE and thinks he is a lap dog. When he came to us he was high HW positive and had to be kept quiet and on low activity for a couple of months while under treatment. He is now an active, happy, loving boy that is the love of her life. 

We get letters and emails all the time from people that have adopted standards from us and there has never been any negative reviews. Mostly it is "I don't know how we ever lived without (insert the name of the dog). We love (insert the name of the dog) so much". Then they go on to tell stories about how wonderful he/she is.

Another volunteer has a retired show standard that is a beautiful, regal girl and she comes up and puts her head in your lap to be petted and will sit and give you soulful looks until you have to pet her again. She is now 10 years old and so hugable!

Maybe we have just been lucky but then PRH has only been around for about 15years.


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## Tally (Jul 21, 2014)

I think the best thing to do is to be honest with yourself, poodles are a high maintenance dog, if you think it might be to much for you then there nothing wrong with getting a less demanding dog. 

Thats not failing, its just doing the right thing for both the dog and your family. Its easy to say your happy to have a challenging dog, but is have a poodle worth the extra work for you and your family?

You might get chilled out Poodle, but I would not say your typical poodle is a chilled out, stranger trusting, easily trained dog (by this I mean they learn quickly but don't always do what they learn). There are always exceptions to the rule. 

Bear as we speak has just been timed out for the 6th time tonight, he challenges us every day! The lab cross I worked with was younger and much less of a challenge, he wasn't perfect but he didn't push the boundaries as much.

Would I trade bear?

No! 

For us the breed is amazing, he keeps us on our toes and we love him to bits, but easy is one thing he's not. He is fantastic with children, he adores them, but his breeder had young children so he sees them as playmates.

Grooming for us is 15 minutes everyday or every other day, depends what hes been up to. He gets bathed and dried once a week, I clip his face every week as well but thats certainly not needed, I'm just trying to get him accustomed to it.

I have to say miniatures are a great size for kids 

In conclusion, great dogs, incredibly intelligent and challenging because of that. They need to be kept both physically and mentally active. Grooming is demanding, but also fun. The first year is the hardest I have been told, were 5 months in. I love having such an athletic intelligent dog. Theres so much good advice on the forum! 

Hes just started running laps around the flat, its 11pm...


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

I note that the "first trainer obtained her spoos as adults. This means the early training was absent or NOT under her control. Under these circumstances I would not trust her judgement one bit. Spoos are intelligent and are siad to be able to learn up to 350 different English words. Some people might be challenged by this!!!!

There are dogs that are easier to train. They are usually compliant and dumb. Spoos are a family member and need the time and energy you would spend on a child. If you don't have this time or energy don't have a spoo or a child please. A puppy will make the best "family member" but is an equal investment in your time and energy to any child. Don't take the advise of two "trainers" who like compliant dogs to train. Surf around and see what others have to say.
Eric


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## dial59 (Sep 17, 2014)

Wow, I can't even believe two trainers would say to not get a poodle. I have a spoo, and cannot even remotely think of having another breed. After sooooo much research and discussions with trainers and dog owners at dog parks, everything lead me to the poodle. It seems to be the perfect breed lol (no, I'm not biased).

'Tux', my spoo, is my first dog, and I wonder if I was just lucky but there isn't one thing that bothers me about him. Sure sometimes he could be a pain (like any other dog) but he's adapted to our lifestyle so well. Training was a breeze, star of his class lol. Maybe it helped that we got him when he was 8 weeks old. He's now approx 2. He's a great dog, rings the bell to go out, very smart - teases all the other dogs lol. He's a clown...

The one BIG thing to keep in mind with poodles is the grooming. I started doing my own grooming to save money (you actually start loving it) but if you don't have the time, it could be very expensive.

Anyways, I wouldn't take that advise from those trainers. Strange! Go online lol, get real opinions.


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## SAS (Jun 16, 2013)

Grooming doesnt have to be a big deal if you have the money to have the dog clipped every six weeks and keep it in a short puppy clip. We do very little- basically nothing - between trips to the salon and spoo gets compliments whereever she goes. Just be faithful about the regular appointments.

Spoo is lying beside me on the bed as i type.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

I should say, I AM biased, I have trained dogs and horses for 40 years. I trained dogs for hunting, retrieving and police service work. German shepherds have been the dog of choice for police work for many years. It has been because of their intellect, their intimidating appearance and their ease of training (for a pro). S/Poodles have the same or better intellect and have a snarling growl that some shepherds would be jealous of. In addition shepherds do not have the best of noses. Spoos have as good a nose as any other dog. But in normal work they are not intimidating. Some police forces are using spoos as service dogs. They are good at it and felons usually relate well to them as do the general public. I have yet to train a dog that worked as hard at being "good" as much as spoos have. I have used them to heard sheep, hunt foxes and retrieve wild foul. The same dogs were inside family members and companions to very young children. But I warn, Intensive training and exercise are essential. I always found myself saying "good girl/boy" a lot more often with spoos and needed less treats. Just the praise was all that was later needed. Many other breeds need a toy or a treat as a continuing incentive for "good' Behaviour.
Eric


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## Deanna (Dec 4, 2013)

Tally said:


> I think the best thing to do is to be honest with yourself, poodles are a high maintenance dog, if you think it might be to much for you then there nothing wrong with getting a less demanding dog.
> 
> Thats not failing, its just doing the right thing for both the dog and your family. Its easy to say your happy to have a challenging dog, but is have a poodle worth the extra work for you and your family?
> 
> ...


Thank you for your story  . To me there are different types of 'demanding'. Things I wouldn't be able to provide are 2-3 hour walks every day, or a dog who just won't lie down and relax (no off-switch), or a dog nervous around children to the point of growling, etc.
Though I am convinced every puppy of every breed requires a_ lot_ of time and energy for at least the first year of its life. If we do go for a pup, I realise that's what I'm getting myself into  . Adopting an adult spoo is an option as well, though I don't see spoos needing rehoming in the Netherlands that often.


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## Tally (Jul 21, 2014)

Deanna said:


> Thank you for your story  . To me there are different types of 'demanding'. Things I wouldn't be able to provide are 2-3 hour walks every day, or a dog who just won't lie down and relax (no off-switch), or a dog nervous around children to the point of growling, etc.
> Though I am convinced every puppy of every breed requires a_ lot_ of time and energy for at least the first year of its life. If we do go for a pup, I realise that's what I'm getting myself into  . Adopting an adult spoo is an option as well, though I don't see spoos needing rehoming in the Netherlands that often.


Your welcome, if I were you I would go for a larger miniature, they can run around the home and get rid of excess energy themselves and require less exercise, Bear has around 1 hour walk everyday, and we play games in the flat as well. If you have your heart set on a standard though I would go for the standard, but if your open to considering having a miniature go to some breeders and see what you think. 


I think getting a puppy is worth it if you have the time, especially if you have children. 

This is bear, hes only 4 months here 










I groom him myself, just started learning so its not great!










Hes 4 and a half months in this one, hes a lovely size for kids, sturdy enough to play, but easy to handle.


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## Anniehen (Sep 13, 2014)

I believe Miniatures are more high energy than the average Standard and often require more exercise. It sounds like you want a Standard Deanna. Truly they are fabulous dogs. All breeds have their challenges, I don't think you need to worry. You have done your research, the trainers whose opinions worried you were wrong. Just go for it and enjoy


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

Tally said:


> Hes 4 and a half months in this one, hes a lovely size for kids, sturdy enough to play, but easy to handle.


Hijack! Bear is gorgeous. 

pr


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I also think that the OP will be fine with a spoo. They don't need 2-3 hours of walking a day. They need a chance to run every day and they need to be mentally challenged every day which can be done very easily in or around the house. There are many days where Lily and Peeves don't go for formal walks, but instead exercise each other in the yard and play games with us at home. BF plays hide and seek with them and I practice rally exercises with them. To earn their buffalo ears and salmon skins they have to practice position changes in the kitchen, but they each do different things. Peeves down, Lily sit. Lily stand, Peeves sit, etc. At the end of that routine I put them both on down stays and put out the treats across the room for them. They have to wait until I say ok to get the treat. I don't say ok until they both have looked away from the treat and made eye contact with me.

BTW ericwd9, Lily does have a much better nose than Peeves, but you are also right about the needs of police he does scare people and she does not. When I walk with both of them, many people want to come say hello to Lily but won't because of Peeves being with us. Both of them have scary barks and pretty intimidating warning growls.


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## Dolly's Mom (Feb 14, 2014)

Deanna said:


> Hey everyone
> 
> One of the trainers has personal experience training poodles, and owns two standards with pedigree whom she adopted after adulthood. According to this trainer the poodles she's worked with are difficult, pushy to get their way, very high energy, mutliple biting incidents with the vet and groomer, and very aloof to strangers to the point of growling. She also said her poodles don't like being touched or cuddled, and she'd never recommend them to first time dog owners.[/I]



This has been my experience, both of my girls have lacked socialization, came from calm uneventful settings to my busy house. They both growl,jump,bark, one counter surfs, one's super high energy with a very high prey drive.
With work there's none of these issues anymore but they are SMART (maybe too much so for there own good) and in my experience need firm guidance to avoid being trouble makers. I am NEVER owning another breed, they are hilarious comedians, they possess an empathy I've never experienced in any other dog, they are snuggly and loving. My current 7 year old was my first personal dog. I was 21 when I got her but also a dog trainer. People always ask my opinion on buying a poodle and I do not recommend them for first time owners who aren't prepared for the (awesome) challenge of a smart breed.
Hope this helps.


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

2 to 3 hours a day is not needed. If it was I wouldn't be the tub that I am.  If you can do this for 30 to 45 minutes a day plus some training to keep the brain going you should be ok.


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## Tally (Jul 21, 2014)

Poodlerunner said:


> Hijack! Bear is gorgeous.
> 
> pr


Thanks, I was trying illustrate his size, I should have put in a coke can for size reference!

I'm not sure they need more or less exercise as I don't have a standard. But he can run around the flat and tire himself out I imagine easier than a standard who might feel cramped. 

I agree if your heart is set on a standard then don't settle, but if you are open to getting a mini then its worth considering, their much easier for children to handle, especially when their boisterous puppies (my breeder was a child-minder).

Good luck, Poodles are great regardless of size.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

PoodleRick, you have quite a pitching arm! Buck doesn't get any kind of a workout with my lame throws. Wonderful to see your beautiful girl in action.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Deanna said:


> Thank you so much for all your replies, I love reading all your stories and experiences.
> 
> I just received a poodle breed profile, could anyone confirm or reject this list?
> 
> ...


Hi Deanna, I don't have a Spoo; mine is a Toy and he's my first Poodle. He is definitely not my first dog, though I'm not an expert. The point I want to make is I call into question the accuracy of the breed profiler you're using, based on a few things and especially this phrase: "'dominance aggression (toy) '". 

Dominance has been debunked and imho a source using the phrase may be less than authoritative. Poodle Club of America and even the AKC site as well as multitudes of great Poodle breeders will have good Poodle information. 4PawsU has some great articles in their online library addressing dominance: Dog Training and Behavior Advice and Information .

Those breed selectors come up with some wonky stuff at times ;0). If you are worried about handing a Standard, maybe consider a Miniature? You'd still get a great mind, happy energy, wonderful companion, and he or she would surely enjoy the hiking trips. Your research process is super and I know whichever variety you eventually choose, your Poodle will be one lucky, happy dog!


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## SAS (Jun 16, 2013)

Another option for mind training and physical exercise is agility. Spoos are very good at this. Despite the breeder and a trainer raising their eyebrows when i mentioned taking my young dog to agility, i took her to a class for 'all levels'. The raised eyebrows were regarding me (age 66) not the dog. We did great. At this level, it was all on leash, no real running on my part required. We both had a blast. Spoo caught on right away and seemed to love the up and overs and be fine with weaeve. She got the tunnel pretty quickly after a period of study on her part (spoos think about things ). I cant wait to go back. She was exhausted when she got home. Gym class is way more fun than obedience in both our opinions and spoo was ready for a good nap when we got home. I find she likes all new things when we walk, although once again, she wants to study them before jumping in and someti es needs a little tug on the leash to try it the first time. The beach and any open area that contains birds .... no encouragement needed. The athleticism of the standards is a sight to behold and one of my favorite things.

I encourage the original poster to find a good breeder, not a backyard breeder, go visit them, their dogs, tell her what they think they can and cannot handle and see what comes of it. I predict a spoo puppy in her future, lol.


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

Mfmst said:


> PoodleRick, *you have quite a pitching arm!* Buck doesn't get any kind of a workout with my lame throws. Wonderful to see your beautiful girl in action.


Oh I wish but thanks. But after my second motorcycle wreck where my arm separated from my shoulder all I can do are these short throws. I used to throw a baseball all the way home from left field.
My arm never came out out the rotator cuff but the arm and rotator cuff separated from the clavicle. Ortho guy said if I were 25 and an athlete they could cinch it up but since I'm fat and 50 he said eventually the ligaments would regrow and reattach. They have but it's loose. It only shows up when I'm carrying something heavy and can feel my shoulder and top of my arm moving in different directions. No biggie really.

Rick


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## SAS (Jun 16, 2013)

Another advantage to the standard poodle that i dont think has been mentioned, is that you have a big dog who is still light in weight. They are not frail but basically a grayhound with curly hair. Ok, a little more dog than a grayhound but not a lot. This means it does not take a weightlifter to control the dog or lift it if need be. And if per chance the dog runs into someone it is not like being hit by a mack truck and it does not have jaws like a vice grip. 

My first spoo was a tall girl who topped out at 65 lbs in her prime. Our current girl looks to be ending up at about 45 lbs. but both were as tall as dogs that weighed 30 lbs more. In other words, they are more manageable. Of course proprt training makes size less of an issue but stuff happens especially when they are young and a standard is a lot of dog without the struggle. Also, very little in any other breed can make up for the lack of shedding. What a joy not to have furniture and clothes covered with dog hair.


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## Dapple (Sep 16, 2013)

This is my first Spoo, and she's been the easiest, most laid back, loving, sweet amazing dog ever! I know that her breeder here in Ontario has a few of her sister litter mates available, who also have similar temperament. Let me know if you want her info!


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

SAS said:


> Another advantage to the standard poodle that i dont think has been mentioned, is that you have a big dog who is still light in weight. They are not frail but basically a grayhound with curly hair. Ok, a little more dog than a grayhound but not a lot. This means it does not take a weightlifter to control the dog or lift it if need be. And if per chance the dog runs into someone it is not like being hit by a mack truck and it does not have jaws like a vice grip.
> 
> My first spoo was a tall girl who topped out at 65 lbs in her prime. Our current girl looks to be ending up at about 45 lbs. but both were as tall as dogs that weighed 30 lbs more. In other words, they are more manageable. Of course proprt training makes size less of an issue but stuff happens especially when they are young and a standard is a lot of dog without the struggle. Also, very little in any other breed can make up for the lack of shedding. What a joy not to have furniture and clothes covered with dog hair.


Good point. My first, Roxy was tall and 58 pounds, Beau was a little taller and 62 and Penny is "travel sized" at 23 inches and 35 pounds so far.


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## Rhett'smom (Sep 23, 2012)

Rhett is a moose who really doesn't shed.. But he is no light weight... Maybe Scarlett will be less than 70..


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