# What Does This Obedience "Points" Award Mean?



## HerdingStdPoodle (Oct 17, 2012)

At the dog show, there were several TOP obedience handlers trying to earn something called "Auch" (spelling?) points. Can someone please explain to me what this term means and how it is earned? I have never heard of this term, but wow, these handlers really caught my attention! These dogs had focus-focus-focus. 
HerdingStdPoodle


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Could you mean OTCH?

Quoted from AKC:

The Obedience Trial Championship (OTCH) title is often referred to as the “PhD” for dogs, is the highest obedience honor a dog can receive.
To obtain an OTCH title, a dog and handler team must receive 100 points by placing first, second, third or fourth in the Open B or Utility B classes and a first place in Utility B and/or Open B three times.
To compete in the AKC National Obedience Invitational dogs must be the top OTCH and OTCH-pointed dogs in each breed.


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## HerdingStdPoodle (Oct 17, 2012)

*Otch*

CharismaticMillie;

OTCH---that's the term! Why first place sometimes and then other times first or second or third or fourth? 

Only "B" and never "A?"

Sorry, but I don't really understand this graduate degree.
HerdingStdPoodle


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Well it means that of those 1st-4th places, three must be first places.


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

I don't know how many Obedience aficionados there are here, but I used to be into that world many years ago (now I'm more of an Agility person). Never got the OTCh, though!

It is truly one of the most difficult titles to achieve in the AKC performance world, because, unlike the Agility Championship (MACH), the OTCh requires *placements* in competition.

First the A and B classes. The Novice A class is for a dog and handler that have never earned a title before. You only get one chance to be in Novice A; every other dog you have later will start in Novice B. (I think that now there is a Pre-Novice class as well, though I'm not sure if it has an A and a B.)

After "graduating" from Novice (by getting three acceptable scores), you go on to Open A, which has more difficult exercises. Experienced and inexperienced handlers all go to Open A. Once you get your three qualifying scores, you can keep on competing, now in Open B. Same exercises; you'll just be with the more experienced dogs and handlers who are going for their OTCh.

Once you "graduate" from Open, you can compete in Utility A, which has even harder exercises. It works the same A / B system as Open: Once you get your title in A, you keep on competing in B, trying to get your OTCh.

Now, unlike Agility, where a mere qualifying score gives you some progress towards your championship title (not that those qualifying scores are oh so easy to get!), in Obedience you must also get not only qualifying scores, but also placements, beating other dogs and handlers, some of whom possibly already have multiple OTCh's on their dogs and / or are "professional" dog trainers. The amateurs and the pros compete head to head once you're out of the A classes! As in the regs CM quoted above, you can see that while 2nd, 3rd, and 4th will do for most of your points (which are earned based on number of dogs you beat, IIRC), you have to prove your mettle by earning a *first place* at least three times.

So...you can see why this would be so very difficult to do. Mere half points separate the placements, with the High in Trial dog often earning a perfect 200, or two dogs having to do a heel-off to break a tie. This forces judges to really dissect the performances down to the slightest crooked sit or ever so forged position in heeling. The placements aspects fosters a competitive and sometimes tense atmosphere. For a performance event, it's quite intense! Just visit a huge megashow that has both Agility and Obedience, and witness the difference in the whole "feel" of the place as you walk in the different sections. (And of course Flyball and Conformation have their unique atmospheres as well!)

To sum it up: the A classes are where you get your title, then you can stop...or you can go on to the elite B classes and keep on competing for your OTCh--but it ain't easy!

Rally is similar to Obedience in a way, but more relaxed and "fun." I really need to investigate that sport more--it came along after I left the scene.

Sorry for the novel; hope this helps!

--Q


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## HerdingStdPoodle (Oct 17, 2012)

*Excellent Explanation!*

Quossom;

Thank you so much for your simple and clear explanation! I am going to print it out and put it in my file for future reference.

- Can you please tell me if the number of participants in any given competition determine the number of points a winning competitor earns toward their advanced degree (OTCH Title)?

- Why are there so-o-o many Golden Retrievers in advanced obedience? Many of the 197-198-199 scores were awarded to handlers of this breed.

Thank you,
HerdingStdPoodle


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

You're welcome!

Yes, the number of dogs in the class at the trial determines how many OTCh points you earn for your placements. Sort of like the awarding of conformation points. Did some digging and found the present schedule of points: so, for example, if there are 36 dogs in Open B, 1st gets 22 points, 2nd gets 7, 3rd gets 3, and 4th gets 1. And so on. 

I found it in this, a PDF of the present regs (includes Rally, too, and info about the "new" classes like Beginner Novice and so on). http://pdf.akc.org/pdfs/RO2999.pdf#page19

Goldens are a very strong breed in Obedience for several reasons. (Generally speaking of course...) They have very good temperaments for the game, tending to be handler focused, strong work ethic that doesn't mind drilling, alert and physically and mentally capable of precision, intelligent but not of the, err..."inventive" style of intelligence of say, a Poodle. (I am speaking in very broad terms, of course--there are Goldens unsuitable for the sport and many, many Poodles who have multi-OTCh'ed.) Not to mention some early "famous" successful handlers had Goldens and some breeders specialize in the "Obedience-type" of Golden (which looks more like a field dog than the typical conformation Golden). (See one of the most famous here. The first dog on their Agility pictures page is one belonging to one of my Agility instructors.) I have many Agility friends with Goldens, almost all from these performance lines rather than the show lines.

Another novel! LOL Hope this helps!

--Q


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Wow, Quossum, those Goldens in your link bear little resemblance to the goldens in the conformation ring.


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

So true. Like many breeds, the "working" type is quite different from the "conformation" type. The working type, though, is doing what the breed is meant to do, though, so...why the huge difference? Hmm... To be fair, though, I have a friend who happens to have a conformation-style Golden, and he does very well in Agility (though he's not as fast and agile as the others).

Cool fact: it was a Poodle breeder who first promoted the idea of competitive Obedience to the AKC. Her name was Helen Whitehouse Walker and (even back then) she was fighting the prejudice that poodles were silly, foo-foo dogs. She bred standards with the kennel name Carillon.

--Q


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