# Growling at my son



## DixieMae (Jan 22, 2018)

My 10 month old has recently been growling at my 6 year old son. She doesn't growl at my 7 year old daughter, but today I thought I heard a growl at my daughter. This is new. Over the weekend there was a low growl and then when my son went to back away, she nipped him in the face. Not a bite, but not playing either. It broke the skin. She does this when he goes to hug her or pat her when she is lying down with and without a toy. 

I have tried rewarding her when her interactions with him are positive but it doesn't seem to have an effect. 

I brought her to the vet to pick up heartworm medicine. When we were in there an unleashed dog ran out and ran up to her. She was fine until the other owner pulled her away and then went crazy. It was so embarrassing that I tried to intervene as she was frantically barking and I grabbed her and she turned and nipped me. She was so frantic that I am not sure she even realized. Yet, I took her to the dog park for the first time the other day and had no issues at all with her. She didn't bark at any of the dogs or even the strangers. Yet, I walked her down the street on a leash, a neighbor went to say hi and she barked like crazy and then lunged on the leash. I wasn't sure what she would do so I turned her around and apologized. I can't tell if the barking is normal but didn't want to take a chance. 

We are doing training through Petsmart and she picks up training easily. She will do anything I ask, but mostly only if I have a treat.

I have spoken to K9 Trainers and those who work with behavioral issues as it sounds like behavioral issues. They promote positive reinforcement but also e-collars as well as the pronged collars. All of them say the positive reinforcement is what the majority of training is but the e-collars and prong collars are for the corrections. And they said I need to get this under control NOW.

I am curious if others have gone through this and how they dealt with it. Other than this, she is a very sweet dog and I have no issues with her. I should also mention that my husband has yet to witness her growl at my son. It tends to only happen around me.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Any trainer advocating e-collars and prong collars for "corrections" is not one I would want anywhere near my dogs, and more especially near a dog showing behavioural issues. I think you need a qualified professional behaviourist, rather than simply a trainer - someone who will come to your house and watch how you, your family, and the dog interact. I agree that this is something that needs to be addressed ASAP (the snapping at children is particularly worrying), but it sounds as if there may be some underlying fearfulness (the reaction to the neighbour), and I would be wary of harsh methods that may make that worse. In the meantime I would set firm rules for both dog and children - no dog on beds, no disturbing the dog when she is eating, has a chew or toy, or is sleeping, and I would start playing lots of games of swapsies and on/off for good rewards. She is still young and you can sort this, but given that there are children involved and she has shown that she is prepared to use her teeth to get her own way I think you need proper professional help immediately.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

E-collars can be effective tools. Asta had an e-collar for training and I only had to use the beep or in the worst instances the vibration - never the shock. It helped me greatly as he did not take treats.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

You do need to deal with this ASAP. I would suggest finding either a trainer who is CDPT-KA (certified professional dog trainer-knowledge assessed) for a start. You can use the trainer search tool at the APDT website to find someone. https://apps.apdt.com/eweb/DynamicPage.aspx?webcode=TrainerSearch Not all of the listings will be CPDT-KA trainers, but the people who are will have lots of experience and will be well versed in positive methods as well as being smart enough to know if the issues would be better handled by a behaviorist.

In the meantime, do not allow your children to be alone with the puppy or to hug the dog or do the other things that are provoking the bad behaviors. I would also stay the heck away from the dog park.

As to tools like pinch collars and e collars they can be useful if used correctly but shouldn't be the first method used. I would be concerned about a trainer who said they would use a pinch collar to give a correction. The proper way to use a pinch collar is to allow the dog to decide how it will respond to the collar not for a person to give a collar pop with one. I also have e collars for my dogs and only use the vibration setting for barking or the tone to mark positive behaviors at distance. In other words neither of those tools is terribly appropriate for what is happening with your puppy (at least not at this time).

I wish you the best in getting a handle on this very quickly.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Many won’t like what I’m about to say but I would rehome this dog ASAP.

Growling would have set me on high alert, but biting and drawing blood would have been the end of it. Some dogs just don’t like children. They don’t trust their energy. This cannot be taught. Yes, you can work with him and he might curb the behavior, but this uneasyness he has about kids will remain, even if hidden.

I would not risk endangering my kids. This dog is young, he will have no problem adapting to a new family with teenagers or no kids.

My human kids come first.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Dechi that certainly is also a possible outcome here. There are people at PF who have had a puppy that wasn't a good fit for their family. In addition to physical hazards for children it would be really terrible if the children end up with life long fear of dogs because of a bad experience with the dog that was to have been their childhood best pal.

The key thing is to work on this right away.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

I've had an aggressive dog and a truly aggressive dog should NEVER be put on an E-Collar because it can trigger aggression. E-Collar might work on a rowdy dog but not one that exhibits aggression.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Those of us who have been around dogs a long time see distress in every single one of the dogs in this video. The whites of the eyes, the stress on their faces, these dogs hate what is happening to them. Hugs, being grabbed, being sat on, all of this upsets dogs.

Daisy Mae is growling a warning. When she is lying down, don't bug me. Growling is a good thing. I'll say that again. Growling is a good thing. I'd far rather have a dog that growls discomfort than a dog that snaps and bites without warning. Dogs that are punished for growling can end up biting without warning, because you trained them to not let you know they're upset.

This is why I think a correction with a prong collar or e-collar for growling is not a good idea. Growling is your dog's way of saying, "I'm not comfortable right now." It's not, I hate you. Or, I want to hurt you. It's information. I never correct a dog for growling. Growling tells me my dog is uncomfortable and is asking for my help. Why would I want to stop that? Instead I listen to what my dog is saying, look for what is upsetting her, and then reassure her that I'm in charge and will fix the situation.

Learn some things about kids and dogs at Stop The 77 Simple things like the first video will help Daisy Mae feel more comfortable immediately. No hugs, no grabbing, no running up to the dog. Yes crouch down, yes, pat your leg, yes pat the shoulder, pause to let the dog leave. 

It can be so hard for children to understand that dogs have feelings, wants, needs, fears and wishes just like they do. When my daughter was being too rough with our pets, I taught her to think about the animal's feelings. Aggression is an emotion that all of us have, pets and kids, and adults. I could provoke aggression in you by taking your pizza off your plate before you were done. "HEY! I was eating that!" Or by flicking the lights on and off while you're sleeping. "HEY! I'm trying to sleep!" We hate that kind of stuff, and so do our dogs. 

Don't take away an animal's food. Don't pet a sleeping dog. Ask the dog if they want to be petted. Don't hug dogs, let them hug you. I still think you should consult a professional trainer because this situation with your son could turn ugly and I don't want it to. Lily's resources are spot on. You can't fight your dog's aggression with more aggression. Please don't use a trainer who wants to to use a shock collar. Run far away and find someone else to help.


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## Red lippy mel (Mar 1, 2017)

This must be very overwhelming for you and your family!
I’d get advice from a professional immediately or find your puppy a new home. 
I too feel children’s needs come first, and I don’t tolerate canine behaviour like this ever. 
However I’ve read about situations like this before, with ideas like to let your son (if he isn’t afraid to) be the only person to interact with the dog with your closest supervision. 
To keep his face away from your puppy and refrain from hugging. 
To have him do all the feeding, playing, treat giving, training with your supervision, and you refrain from doing anything other than close supervision. 
Other than these interactions the rest of the family ignore the puppy. 
It would be continued until the puppy sees your son as someone who’s instructions are to be obeyed. (I read this in a reply to an online question from a friend who is a dog trainer.)
On my friends advice, I relay all of the training I do in puppy classes with the entire family. 
We have a big spoo and she is often more boisterous around our 4 yr old just because she is at the moment as big as he is. 
So he feeds her, does basic training and plays with her everyday. 
It takes a lot of patience but totally worth it!
I hope you get good advice, and find a solution ASAP. 
All the very best.


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## Red lippy mel (Mar 1, 2017)

Click and treat, dixiemae said her son heard the low growl and backed away. The dog still chose to attack the boy’s face regardless of him giving space. 
And with this behaviour happening only when dixiemae is present, I’d say it’s a possession issue. Dixiemae said SHE rewards good behaviour with interaction with her son, so it’s all coming from her. The dog still sees dixiemae as the giver of all, and it’s possention alone. 
This would also explain the bite at the vet. 
I’m no expert, but my friend is and this was her take on this. 
Territory and possessions are issues for many dogs, and I’m sure there are lots of ways to deal with it. 
I agree with not using prone collars, I hate using pain and fear to counteract would could be fear!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Click-N-Treat made a very important point that growling is communication from a dog who is in pain, or otherwise uncomfortable/unhappy with what is happening and she is absolutely correct that it should never be trained away as part of the dog's language. My dog's growl occasionally and I never reprimand them for doing so. I look at what is happening and respond to the situation rather than directly the growl. As an example Lily and Javelin often are at odds trying to get next to me on the sofa. Lily will sometimes just plop herself down on top of Javelin and he will growl. Since he defers to her in all things he is really just saying I am annoyed but okay and he moves. Nothing more ever happens. The growl in that situation is appropriate and conveys an in kind level of response. Lily will growl at me sometimes when she has given me a toy that she wants me to thrown and I am ignoring her. She will wait patiently for a while and then growls to show she is impatient. If I hear growling in other situations then I look very closely at what brought it on before deciding what to do. If two dogs are growling and have bad body language, the one closest to the back door goes outside right away.

Back to the OP's situation following up on the growl with a bite suggests that the puppy feels very overwhelmed and maybe feels that way a lot. Dixie Mae I would suggest along with the other things discussed here to really learn to read your puppy's body language to see how often or for what lengths of time she is feeling stressed. As Click also mentioned, seeing whites of eyes is a stress sign as are: yawning, sneezing and excessive scratching. You also want to look at the set of the lips (tight, curled, loose) and tail set (down is scared or stressed, but wagging doesn't always mean happy--slow side to side wagging is uncertainty) and ear set (up or down, pulled back). A roached back means the dog is uncomfortable too. Brenda Aloff has a great book on canine body language and my have some video material on her website.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Lucky and Kit would do the same thing! They fight for the seat next to me in bed or on the sofa. Usually, Kit just sits on Lucky to get him to move. Lucky would make a noise that sounds like growling but it is just him getting annoyed. I can see how some growling sounds can be confused for aggression. Lucky is like the least aggressive dog on earth. I've never seen him show any signs of aggression.

My previous dog Sahara had aggression and was given to us because she snapped at a newborn. The easiest way to see if a dog is being aggressive is the lip curl or hair rising on their mane. I guess the mane might be less noticeable on a spoo but the lip curl is unmistakable. Sometimes a low growl precedes a lip curl.


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## DixieMae (Jan 22, 2018)

For the past couple of days, I have had my son pet her, with me right there and praise her and give her a treat. I have also had him do the sit/lay down command and mark it with a treat and good girl. There hasn't been one growl since. I am wondering if she saw him as a peer. He jumps around a lot and maybe that made her nervous but we have talked to him about being more settled around the dog as to not make her nervous. We have also been working on more socialization things with the dog. I have taken her to the dog park now several times. She has not barked once at strangers or other dogs and there have been zero issues with her when we are there. 

I am a new dog owner so there is a chance that I am misinterpreting signs. The growling, I didn't misinterpret. It was a low growl that I felt meant, please let me alone. It wasn't growling with teeth. Don't get me wrong, I am still concerned with this behavior and am consulting professionals for this. 

I am also currently working with a trainer. The trainer that I am working with hasn't seen any signs of aggression with the dog at all so far. We have been in training for 5 weeks and around other dogs all on leashes. I am hoping because this behavior is brand new, we were/are able to correct it early. It was also suggested that because she hasn't been fixed yet, that may also be contributing to this. I don't believe she has had a heat yet unless it was a silent one. The breeder said generally a heat would come between 6-8 months based on past litters with the parents. Also, the leash aggression I may not be assessing correctly either. I can't tell if it's aggressive barking and lunging or I want attention barking and lunging. I noticed she did the same barking lunging with a neighbor she never met as she did with my husband who she adores. 

I am reading through everyone's comments and feedback and it's all so helpful and I really appreciate it! I think the biggest problem might be with my assessment of the situation. But I would rather assume the worst and address it than underestimate something and have a bigger problem.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

You've gotten such good advice, and I'm pleased that you're willing to try to work things out. When I had my home nursery school, I had my dogs and a small group of 2-5 year olds running around. I taught those kids from day one to let the dog approach them, never disturb them when they're eating, never take a toy from them, and never disturb their sleep. Children can be very irritating to dogs because they have so much energy and move so fast, and they love to give hugs to dogs. The poodles weren't fazed by any of this. 
However, Zooey (my Maltese), gave quite a few warning barks and even a snap to a child who forgot the rules. But, overall, everyone got along amazingly well.

I like the idea of your children helping with the training. That is a great way to get a dog to respect them and not see them as peers. Good thinking


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## HeritageHills (Sep 4, 2017)

I had the same problem with a Goldendoodle puppy we used to own. She would nip my toddler to the point of drawing blood after normal attempts at petting, and growling just from close proximity. I tried the wait and see tactic, and while it improved for a time it became worse once Mia (the dog) was about two. For her it WAS fear based, but it was still dangerous, so we had to re-home her to a home without young children. She had other behavioral issues(peeing over excitement/intimidation which happened ALL.The.Time and barking) but that was the one we just couldn't tolerate.


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## Rrelkins23 (May 20, 2018)

I had this problem with my 9 week old standard poodle puppy and my 4 year old son. She would growl at him when he hugged her, usually when she was sleeping. He never hurt her, but he did startle her a lot with his loud personality. My sister told me how to deal with it. She needed to learn that he was not a peer she could warn off, that he was no different than me in terms of the hierarchy of the pack. She basically needed to learn that he was master. I think she had never met a child his age before which is something I now know is essential if I ever buy a dog again. 
We carefully cultivated his dominance by having him give her commands like sit and come followed by treats when she successfully did what he told her. And I never allowed her not to follow his commands. I also had him take over a large part of her “care.” He helped to brush, bathe, and lead her. I spent countless hours teaching them both how to act with each eachother. We spent a lot of time with him holding her down on her back while rubbing her belly and giving her treats when she accepted it without trying to squirm away. I also let him be the only one to feed her for a while. Her behavior towards him changed immediately. She went from leaving whenever he entered the area of the room she was in, to following him around every step he takes and curling up next to him for every nap. I know this might be a controversial idea, but I won’t tolerate her showing signs of annoyance from him hugging her (he does it gently and lovingly,) or carrying her (which he does with my supervision even though she’s as long as he is) even if she is sleeping. The way I see it is that I groom and bathe and do all sorts of things she does not like, but she would never even think of growling at me and she should consider him the same. I feel like a dog that accepts that children are going to be unpredictable and sometimes annoying when they are puppies, are much safer dogs to have around children when they are big enough to do them harm. If you have a child who is calm and caring enough not to injure the puppy, then I think it is very beneficial to have them teach the dog they are the boss. There are obviously some children who this method won’t work with; children who are far too rough on animals and will end up only scaring them more and that’s why it takes teaching the child and the pup equally how to behave. 
All that being said, my puppy was 9 weeks old and not able to do much more than scratch him if it all went wrong, and so I don’t know if any of this will be beneficial in terms of your 10 month old pup. I would ask not just a trainer, but a dog behavior expert for help. And if you get another puppy, start very early establishing the dominance of the children. And look for a breeder you know has socialized the puppies with small children from a very young age. Of course, I am not a professional and you should always follow the advice of the experts, but my sister has had many dogs over the years, and she has never had an aggressive one. And my dog and my son are inseparable now. And she listens to him which is quite an amazing thing.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

Dechi said:


> Many won’t like what I’m about to say but I would rehome this dog ASAP.


I am so sorry, but I have to agree with this. 

Based on my experience with 2 dogs that have shown aggression toward my nephew, some dogs just can't handle being around children. My parent's dog was fine being around my nephew until he turned 2, and then she lunged at him when he went to pet her. She has not been allowed to be in the same room with him since. He is now 7, has a dog of his own, and he does a great job interacting with Jasper, my maltipoo. Jasper is fine with everyone, including children, so it's not a big deal. 

Miracle met my nephew for the first time a few weekends ago and was allowed to interact with him with direct supervision last weekend. This is a dog that allows me to kiss her head, touch her face, groom her face, and she loves to snuggle. But, she does growl at strangers, so we waited and gave him opportunities to feed her favorite treats and just be in the same room as her. We also taught him to let her approach him. Day 2, she was going toward him, wagging her tail, and wanting to be pet. He was SUPER gentle with her, used slow movements, but he kissed her head one too many times. She lunged at his face. Fortunately I had control of her leash and pulled her back immediately. This was really unexpected, and I will never allow her to be around children again.

Miracle is the 5th dog in my life. Three of them have been good with all people, including children. I don't know what makes Gracie and Miracle act differently toward children, but I believe that there are some dogs that just can't handle being around children for whatever reason. Safety first. Sorry


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