# Need to vent



## EJStevenP (Oct 27, 2021)

Hey all. Long time lurker. First time poster. I’m making this post because I’ve to go get this off my chest and no one in real life understands the big issue with this and there’s obviously no one to report it to. Here we go….about a year ago I was looking for a standard to add to my family. I came across what looked like a super impressive breeder in my state. They ticked off all the boxes. Iron clad contracts, transparency with health results, three generations of family members with a ton of years in breeding, etc. I was excited and headed to the Dams section. GORGEOUS dogs. Then to the Sires where…..there’s a Merle. Face palm. Check out the past puppy gallery and tons of merles. Then I notice under each Merle picture there’s a notice of not using it for defamation or slander or legal action will be taken. Obviously I gave them a hard pass however the other day I went to their website just to see what was new and they have a new dam who is…..a Merle. I’m sure you can see where this is going. Sure enough under future litters they have the two merles having a litter later this year. It’s so infuriating and there’s not a thing I can do.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

There is something important that you can do. And you've done it.

You passed.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Grrrrrrrr. . . people who breed merle poodles make me furious! Why, oh why, would anyone introduce a trait that can potentially lead to health issues and even death! Furthermore, it is clearly the result of crossing to another breed, so what you really get is a mutt! I don't approve of people breeding for any trait that is not correct for the breed, so breeding for phantom markings, spots, or patches is undesirable, too. Poodles legitimately come in a rainbow of colors, so anyone who is breeding merles or mismarks is doing it so they can advertise their puppies as "a rare color"! Darn right it's rare! It's supposed to be non-existent!


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

Johanna said:


> Grrrrrrrr. . . people who breed merle poodles make me furious!


And here they are deliberately breeding merle to merle.


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## EJStevenP (Oct 27, 2021)

reraven123 said:


> And here they are deliberately breeding merle to merle.


That’s what is really getting me. Merle poodles are never okay but the audacity to breed two together!!! It’s so wrong on so many levels!


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

It is good to meet you here, and thank goodness you knew your facts and were not fooled. One thing I'd maybe consider adding to your criteria is finding a breeder who legitimately shows their Poodles in AKC conformation, or UKC in some cases. I think one is truly less likely to find this dishonesty in such breeders.


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## Audi (Aug 3, 2021)

Johanna said:


> Grrrrrrrr. . . people who breed merle poodles make me furious! Why, oh why, would anyone introduce a trait that can potentially lead to health issues and even death! Furthermore, it is clearly the result of crossing to another breed, so what you really get is a mutt! I don't approve of people breeding for any trait that is not correct for the breed, so breeding for phantom markings, spots, or patches is undesirable, too. Poodles legitimately come in a rainbow of colors, so anyone who is breeding merles or mismarks is doing it so they can advertise their puppies as "a rare color"! Darn right it's rare! It's supposed to be non-existent!


Are part poodles under the same category? I know they can’t be shown(yet),but AKC does register them. I think they’re beautiful obviously.


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

No, parti poodles are beautiful! They can't be shown in AKC conformation, but they can be shown in AKC performance events, and in UKC. The problem we have with merle poodles is that merle is not a color that occurs in poodles, and therefore merle poodles are not purebred but have been mixed with another breed at some point. The problem with bringing the merle color into the poodle breed is that it brings with it serious health concerns including blindness and deafness. Breeding a merle dog to another merle dog greatly increases the chances of problems in their offspring.

There are a number of poodle breeders claiming their merle dogs and puppies are purebred; they are either lying or else they don't know much about poodles. In either case they shouldn't be breeding.

Parti colors have always been present in poodles. At some point breeders started selecting for solid colors only and banning parti's from the show ring, but parti's have always been there. Merles are a new and very unwanted development.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I thought that merle was a registration no-no for both AKC and UKC.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

cowpony said:


> I thought that merle was a registration no-no for both AKC and UKC.


You can't register a dog with a breed DQ in UKC. For AKC, considering they register albino Dobermans as "white", they probably don't care. I daresay that a lot of of merles are registered as "black and grey", black and silver", or "brown and apricot", depending on if they are blue merle or red merle.


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## Audi (Aug 3, 2021)

reraven123 said:


> No, parti poodles are beautiful! They can't be shown in AKC conformation, but they can be shown in AKC performance events, and in UKC. The problem we have with merle poodles is that merle is not a color that occurs in poodles, and therefore merle poodles are not purebred but have been mixed with another breed at some point. The problem with bringing the merle color into the poodle breed is that it brings with it serious health concerns including blindness and deafness. Breeding a merle dog to another merle dog greatly increases the chances of problems in their offspring.
> 
> There are a number of poodle breeders claiming their merle dogs, and puppies are purebred, they are either lying or else they don't know much about poodles. In either case they shouldn't be breeding.
> 
> Parti colors have always been present in poodles. At some point breeders started selecting for solid colors only and banning parti's from the show ring, but parti's have always been there. Merles are a new and very unwanted development.


Thank you for explaining.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Merle x Merle = disaster in the making. Just horrible.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

reraven123 said:


> And here they are deliberately breeding merle to merle.


Yes, reraven123, that is an awful thing to do. I wonder if the person is simply ignorant of the problem of breeding merles?


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## EJStevenP (Oct 27, 2021)

Johanna said:


> Yes, reraven123, that is an awful thing to do. I wonder if the person is simply ignorant of the problem of breeding merles?


I feel like based on the threats of legal action pinned on all of their Merle pictures they must KNOW something. Whether they are ignorant of what Merle means or they think they can beat genetics or they just want money is a whole other question. The killer is the non merles they breed are absolutely gorgeous and their breeding practices tick off all of the Things to Look For In a Breeder boxes.

By the way I was able to find a wonderful breeder and standard. Well actually two breeders and two standards. Ethel is almost 8 months and a feisty red. Jeffrey will be 10 weeks old and is looking to be a silver beige. The story of how I got to this point with these two is a Whole Thing.


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## EJStevenP (Oct 27, 2021)




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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Welcome to you and your beautiful puppies. Ethel is such a rich red, and I understand that silver beige is a rare color. Trifecta win. You passed on a breeder threatening legal action for even mentioning dangerous breeding practices and got two awesome colors in the poodle rainbow.


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

Johanna said:


> Yes, reraven123, that is an awful thing to do. I wonder if the person is simply ignorant of the problem of breeding merles?


I would hope that it's only ignorance but in the same thought, my brain screams: WHY ARE THEY BREEDING if they're too lazy to do their homework? I have seen in the Collie breed people make horrible mistakes. One breeder was really thinking they had some white collies in their litter. I saw the eyes & knew it wasn't so. Those pups were blind & were in trouble. They were double merles. No, no, the breeder argued with me. It couldn't be the sire (if I remember right) was a sable & the dam was a blue merle. Yes, I explained, your female is a blue merle but your stud is a sable merle... it is a thing. I sent him many reference pictures. Took the pictures of his stud & drew lines where the merle markings were, which were VERY subtle & would be easy to miss. Sent him breed club information. Even educated him on double merles & what this meant for his little puppies. He was mortified. There are beautiful white collies that are not double merles but these pups ended up having to be put down. They had a lot of issues. I don't know if he still breeds or not. I had a blue merle collie & she was a beauty but I did my homework before buying, after buying & in deciding she would never be bred. I kept hoping the ethical Poodle people would win out over the merle nuts but I feel the problem creeping up on the breed.


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