# Adanac Poodles



## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

You should know who the parents are, see pictures of them (or visit if you are close enough), and also know the importance details regarding the health testing of each parent. Even if it's for a future litter, the breeder should have a plan about which dogs will be part of the breeding process.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I agree with Dogs4Life on all of the above, and I will also add that I think having breeding stock with foster homes just feels like a way to hold onto more dogs than might be ideal. Other people may have different thoughts on that part of it, but the poodle and GSD breeders we have dogs from don't have dogs out with foster families.


Giving a deposit before there are paws on the ground is not such a big deal, but it should be for an already planned or completed breeding (so you know who the parents are and can know their background) and be able to be applied to a future litter or refundable if the suitable pup for you isn't among the litter your deposit went towards. For our three dogs, Lily's breeder took a $500 deposit, Peeves litter (who BF had previously had a dog from) required no deposit and Javelin's breeder took a $100 deposit. The poodle deposits were given after the breedings, but before whelping.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

The foster designation could be a co-breeder, owner/mentor situation. I found an old 2011 post from Arreau that she hadn’t heard a negative word about them. Personally, I would want to know the sire and dam on any pup before I put down a deposit. I expect from this breeder that both are Canadian conformation CH’s.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I've never heard of them but that of course is not unusual. I don't have a problem with their foster program, though to me it indicates this is a business to sell pups. I'm ok that they don't just keep a bunch of dogs in kennels to breed & sell. For me I want copies of all healttesing on sire & dam in my hand or where I can view at an official site. That being said I want to know the sire & dam they are planning to breed before I put a deposit on a puppy. I also want to know if my deposit will be refundable if they cannot provide a puppy from this planned litter. I don't go for well we will try again or have another puppy from a different litter. Basically I want to know what I getting and when.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

i don't know anything about adanac either. but fostering may not be just about the bucks. it's one way smaller breeders who don't want to become puppy mills can promote diversity - depending on the breeder, of course. i believe poodles de grenier, a pretty well-known name in promoting diversity in poodles, used or uses the fostering system.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

The website shows they are expecting puppies now, so they should definitely be able to tell you who the parents are and give you information on their health testing (if you were expecting a puppy from the upcoming litter/one is available).


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I agree patk


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## Michigan Gal (Jun 4, 2019)

I think co owning or having "foster" homes is fine, many breeders do it. 

However, last year I put a deposit on a p puppy from a known breeder of champions after speaking to people at a couple of dog shows. I went to pick up a puppy after putting down a deposit. We talked for quite a while but something was just wrong. First of all, my email said I wanted to show the dog in conformation and performance. The two puppies were mismarked, so could not show in conformation. I just got a bad feeling and left with no puppy. Broken hearted.

On the way home I realized my concern. Neither puppy, at 16 weeks, was interested in people. You know how puppies are.. but they weren't. No interest at all and the female seemed lethargic. Hey, those puppies were not handled. They were from another home that co-owned the dam. Missed a bullet there.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Michigan Gal said:


> . Missed a bullet there.


Wow, yes, you did! I'm sorry you had that experience, but you were very wise to walk away.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

GreyPepper said:


> My initial contact was great but I was asked to send a deposit via e-transfer before the pups were even born without any information at all about the parents. I wasn't too comfortable with that. It felt very impersonal. Is that standard procedure now?
> 
> With my last mini, I got to meet the mom and got lots of info about the dad and both parent's temperaments.


I would absolutely not buy from a breeder without seeing the pedigrees of the parents, seeing health testing of the parents (preferably listed on OFA), meeting the breeder, seeing where and how the pups will be raised, meeting the mother dog (and preferably the father). You should also see their contract (if they have one) before sending a deposit. Possible exception on the requirement of meeting the breeder and the parent dogs if someone I knew and trusted personally knew the breeder and his/her dogs. The idea that you would send a deposit to a breeder that you don't know for a puppy of unknown parentage just seems absolutely crazy to me. No way!


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

Never send a deposit to someone you're not comfortable with. I have to know what I'm getting myself into before I'd send a deposit. Gotta know about parents, health testing, etc... if they can't show me proof of health test results, I assume they're blowing smoke. At any point if something seems off or I'm not comfortable, I'm out. Maybe I miss some good puppies from great breeders that way but I have been burned really badly a couple of times. And if the breeder I'm doing business with isn't raising his/her own puppies... I'm out. I am supportive of fostering but if someone else is raising the puppies then I'm not interested at all.


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## GreyPepper (Aug 4, 2019)

Dogs4Life said:


> You should know who the parents are, see pictures of them (or visit if you are close enough), and also know the importance details regarding the health testing of each parent. Even if it's for a future litter, the breeder should have a plan about which dogs will be part of the breeding process.


They have pictures on the website but I would have liked to have a chance to meet the parents ideally. I was told it wasn't possible to even come to make the deposit in person because visitors would stress out a momma dog with a previous litter. 

I'm sure their dogs and pups are fine but there was too much blind faith for me to go through with it.


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## GreyPepper (Aug 4, 2019)

lily cd re said:


> I agree with Dogs4Life on all of the above, and I will also add that I think having breeding stock with foster homes just feels like a way to hold onto more dogs than might be ideal. Other people may have different thoughts on that part of it, but the poodle and GSD breeders we have dogs from don't have dogs out with foster families.
> 
> 
> Giving a deposit before there are paws on the ground is not such a big deal, but it should be for an already planned or completed breeding (so you know who the parents are and can know their background) and be able to be applied to a future litter or refundable if the suitable pup for you isn't among the litter your deposit went towards. For our three dogs, Lily's breeder took a $500 deposit, Peeves litter (who BF had previously had a dog from) required no deposit and Javelin's breeder took a $100 deposit. The poodle deposits were given after the breedings, but before whelping.


That definitely sounds much reasonable if you already know who the parents are ahead of time! Any breeder recommendations?

I was ready to put the deposit down because we have recently lost our mini to heart failure and we wanted a pup sooner rather than later. But then it just didn't sit right that I wasn't even told the parent's name. Though to be fair I would have been less hesitant if it had been possible to meet the parents.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

GreyPepper said:


> They have pictures on the website but I would have liked to have a chance to meet the parents ideally. I was told it wasn't possible to even come to make the deposit in person because visitors would stress out a momma dog with a previous litter.
> 
> I'm sure their dogs and pups are fine but there was too much blind faith for me to go through with it.


Well I can see not allowing people to meet a litter that is less than 4 weeks old. Momma dogs do get protective of their babies, and introducing strangers to the momma + young babies would not be a good idea. But what do you mean by "momma dog with a previous litter"? If it is a previous litter (not the litter you would be getting a puppy from), you do not need to meet that momma dog. But you do want to meet the momma of the litter you are interested in, either before the pups are born, or after they are about 4 weeks old.

Getting a puppy from a momma who has a wonderful stable temperament -- one who is not easily stressed out -- is extremely important. Mommas pass their temperaments along to the puppies in two ways: (1) genetics and (2) by taking good care of them (the breeder and the momma dog together provide the puppies with a safe, secure and happy environment). I think you are wise to be cautious.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

Sorry for your loss. Arreau is in Ontario. They breed standard poodles....not sure if you might consider that size. There are several PF members who have gotten a poodle from Arreau.


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## GreyPepper (Aug 4, 2019)

Mfmst said:


> The foster designation could be a co-breeder, owner/mentor situation. I found an old 2011 post from Arreau that she hadn’t heard a negative word about them. Personally, I would want to know the sire and dam on any pup before I put down a deposit. I expect from this breeder that both are Canadian conformation CH’s.


Good to know! My advice to others would probably be to try to talk to them by phone and have all questions ready. I corresponded with them by email and maybe that's why there was missing information. I think it can be hard to communicate by email that "hey I'm very serious about getting a puppy but I'd love to get as much info as possible before I pay a deposit."


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## GreyPepper (Aug 4, 2019)

Mufar42 said:


> For me I want copies of all healttesing on sire & dam in my hand or where I can view at an official site. That being said I want to know the sire & dam they are planning to breed before I put a deposit on a puppy. I also want to know if my deposit will be refundable if they cannot provide a puppy from this planned litter. I don't go for well we will try again or have another puppy from a different litter. Basically I want to know what I getting and when.



I agree with this sentiment.


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## GreyPepper (Aug 4, 2019)

peppersb said:


> I would absolutely not buy from a breeder without seeing the pedigrees of the parents, seeing health testing of the parents (preferably listed on OFA), meeting the breeder, seeing where and how the pups will be raised, meeting the mother dog (and preferably the father). You should also see their contract (if they have one) before sending a deposit. Possible exception on the requirement of meeting the breeder and the parent dogs if someone I knew and trusted personally knew the breeder and his/her dogs. The idea that you would send a deposit to a breeder that you don't know for a puppy of unknown parentage just seems absolutely crazy to me. No way!


So it was not possible for me to come to even put a deposit down in person because they had another dog with pups in the house and the visit would stress her out. I definitely did not want to stress out a mama but there was no mention of a contract or anything, just a request to send an e-transfer.

I'm sure their pups are fine but as much as I wanted one it just didn't feel right.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Since I am in New York and have standards, not mpoos I don't have suggestions other than reaching out to Arreau to see who she knows that might be good on minis in your area.


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## GreyPepper (Aug 4, 2019)

peppersb said:


> Well I can see not allowing people to meet a litter that is less than 4 weeks old. Momma dogs do get protective of their babies, and introducing strangers to the momma + young babies would not be a good idea. But what do you mean by "momma dog with a previous litter"? If it is a previous litter (not the litter you would be getting a puppy from), you do not need to meet that momma dog. But you do want to meet the momma of the litter you are interested in, either before the pups are born, or after they are about 4 weeks old.
> 
> Getting a puppy from a momma who has a wonderful stable temperament -- one who is not easily stressed out -- is extremely important. Mommas pass their temperaments along to the puppies in two ways: (1) genetics and (2) by taking good care of them (the breeder and the momma dog together provide the puppies with a safe, secure and happy environment). I think you are wise to be cautious.


I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and say maybe it was a matter of miscommunication because the correspondence was over email. However, when I asked them what the process was, they did not mention meeting parents or any sort of contract. They just mentioned putting a deposit down and when I eagerly said I can come as soon as possible to put a deposit down in person, I was told this wasn't possible because it would stress out a momma dog they had in their house. 

I can respect their reasons 100% but I did not feel comfortable sending a deposit to someone I don't know without too much information. 

Hopefully, other people have better luck with them.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

GreyPepper said:


> I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and say maybe it was a matter of miscommunication because the correspondence was over email. However, when I asked them what the process was, they did not mention meeting parents or any sort of contract. They just mentioned putting a deposit down and when I eagerly said I can come as soon as possible to put a deposit down in person, I was told this wasn't possible because it would stress out a momma dog they had in their house.
> 
> I can respect their reasons 100% but I did not feel comfortable sending a deposit to someone I don't know without too much information.
> 
> Hopefully, other people have better luck with them.


i think you dodged a bullet here. Their website had potential to pursue but when you don’t even know the parents and they refuse to set up a reasonable date to see the puppies when they are old enough for visitors or a bitch early in the pregnancy; that’s a huge red flag.


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## Dapper (Aug 31, 2017)

I had similar issues with them about 2 years ago. I had quite a long e-mail exchange with them (about 15-20 e-mails, though she was giving short 1 or 2 sentence replies) with all my questions being answered by the book and I was feeling satisfied. Then, when I asked if I could visit the puppy parents before giving my payment, they rejected me because of recently newborn puppies. Somehow (I don't remember how, sorry) it ended up turning into them being born in 2 weeks soon after. I asked them, "But didn't you say the puppies were already born?" and they reminded me that I should make a payment to get on the wait list as they have very few spots left. This was the first puppy breeder I contacted, so I ignored that red flag and tried to compromise by asking if I could see the parents a couple of weeks or a week before the puppies are given away, because I don't feel comfortable paying for the puppies otherwise. They rejected me again while still reminding me that there's not much time to leave a payment. I decided this specific litter wasn't for me, so I told them I'll wait for the next litter, and if I could see the puppy parents sometime after the puppies are given away. They rejected me yet again, saying some bull about the doggy parents being exhausted and having depression from the puppies leaving that will last a few weeks. But, once again, I was reminded that I can leave a payment on the next litter and that I will have first dibs. At that point the red flag became obvious enough for me, and I started thinking they just purchase the puppies from somewhere else and resell them. I'm glad to see someone else had a weird experience with them and that I didn't overreact.

I wasn't given any proof of health records of the parents, the grandparents, and information about the line.

The only time I was allowed to come was only if I paid first, and it was for a puppy meet and greet with the mom there as well. (Edit: I originally put that the parents wouldn't be there, but I think I remembered wrong.)


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

Dapper said:


> The only time I was allowed to come was only if I paid first, and it was for a puppy meet and greet with the mom there as well. (Edit: I originally put that the parents wouldn't be there, but I think I remembered wrong.)


I can totally see the breeder not following through with having the mother there. This actually happened when my family got our first dog (way back in the 90s). Saw the puppy, but not the mom, a few weeks after she was born. When we picked her up at 10 weeks, again no mom. I don't remember what the excuses were and I also don't think we saw pictures of the parents.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I think all said and done. They could very well be good and produce nice pups but as a consumer we have choices. We all have an idea of what we expect and want in a purchase agreement and when unsure or not fully comfortable we should go with our gut feelings.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Any breeder I work with would give me health records (OFA) back 3 generations, and allow me to meet the parents and grandparents. I can see if the father wasn't there as much is done by artificial insemination. I would want pedigree, titles, etc.

You can tell a lot about the temperament of the puppy by meeting the mother. 
As well as seeing the location the puppies are bred in. 

There site doesn't provide enough information at all. Very suspicious.

Here is an old thread on safely choosing a well bred poodle puppy and a breeder:
https://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/33522-buying-puppy-safely-basics.html


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

I'm sorry but my first question that pops into my mind everything I read about this breeder is, "Why are they breeding from dogs with such fragile nerves?" I am not being unreasonable. I have worked in kennels of both large & small breeds. I have worked for breeders, trained for breeders. Any of them I ever heard give this kind of nonsense answer were doing so because they didn't want to deal with people or they had something to hide. If it was the 2nd, I didn't work for them for long. 

I hope that is not the case & that this breeder is really good however a litter of puppies needs to be weaned before the puppies leave for their new homes. By that time the Dam is generally very mentally fit to see people. She may not like to be handled by strangers & that is fine but she should be able to handle someone visiting. And the sire of the litter may be a good sport & play with his pups or tolerate them but it's rare to find a stud who 'mothers' pups enough to be too stressed to meet his puppies' new families. Quite frankly a lot of sires & dams are happy to see the little belly biters go! I would have to question do these adult dogs get human socialization or are they latch key where they only handle their humans comings & goings? Is that why mommy & daddy are so nervous or upset by visitors? Again, I would not want a puppy from parents with that kind of issue. 

While searching for my Standard Poodle pup, I ran into some of the most bizarre things. I have added a few more red flag indicators to my list.


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## Dapper (Aug 31, 2017)

Dapper said:


> I decided this specific litter wasn't for me, so I told them I'll wait for the next litter, and if I could see the puppy parents sometime after the puppies are given away. They rejected me yet again, saying some bull about the doggy parents being exhausted and having depression from the puppies leaving that will last a few weeks. But, once again, I was reminded that I can leave a payment on the next litter and that I will have first dibs.


Hello again. Sorry for reviving an old thread, but I just wanted to correct this part I posted. I was deleting old e-mails and found I still had the e-mails when I was looking for a dog. The above quote happened with a different breeder and it was for a Bichon (the rest of the original quote doesn't need correcting). The way it ended with Adanac had no mention from me of visiting the dogs after. I'm ashamed I spread misinformation. I was absolutely sure it happened with Adanac, but I guess 2 years can mix up information.


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