# Tail docking?



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

In the US breeders dock their tails at a couple days old. It is hard to find poodles without a docked tail, but not impossible. Docking a dogs tail when they are older is not normally done and seems a little cruel to me. I do know a litter right now with half docked and half undocked tails, but most people expect a docked tail. Breeders also usually take off their dew claws, although that is done less and less. You should ask your breeder if they do those things. In other countries docking and dew claw removal is illegal, but still done here. 

The fashion now is for longer docks. Years ago a lot of poodles had little nubbins for tails. They used to dock short so with the longer docks a lot of poodles have a curl in their tail now, starting right about where they used to dock it. Most now have long tails that when held up are around the level of the upright head, but it varies a lot. 

Let us know what the breeder says.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Docking an older dog's tail is extremely painful, and should certainly not be done for cosmetic purposes - vets will do it if it is necessary because of trauma, etc, but I would be very surprised if one would just for appearance. So it comes down to whether your breeder docks or not. 

In the UK docking has been illegal for non-working dogs for some years, so Poppy has a full tail. It is about 1/3 the length of her back - perhaps a little more (she is not letting me see at the moment!), and usually carried in a slight curve over her back or behind. As outwest says, docking plus breeding for a very high tail carriage means many undocked or long docked tails are distinctly curled - it will be interesting to see how this plays out as docking becomes less and less popular worldwide.


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## Harrymummy (Aug 27, 2012)

Am in Singapore and docking is both legal and the norm here. Have seen some really sad tails of about an inch long...

Harry's tail is docked but still looks like a tail. It's his key 'play with me' indicator. It always makes me giggle when he waggles it


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## frankgrimes (Nov 28, 2011)

I love the fact that Ralph's breeder did not dock tails. I can't imagine him without his tail - he uses it so often! Here are a few pictures of Ralph's natural tail. He's a standard, but I would imagine toys/minis would be in the same proportions.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

What will He look like?......A Poodle of course!


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

If you have a choice, I'd recommend not docking the tail. It's not just a cosmetic issue, as studies show that it affects the way the docked dog is perceived by other dogs--they don't understand its intentions because the tail is not there to give a cue. 

Neely has a docked tail, but it's about 8 inches long and can clearly be seen to wag. My terriers are not so lucky. Devlin only has a nub, and I suspect Bridget might be a "natural bob," also short, about 1.5 inches.

Stanley Coren, noted author on canine cognition, has an interesting blog post about communication between dogs with both docked and natural tails.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...s-versus-short-tails-and-canine-communication


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

If I had the choice, my dogs would have natural tails! I respect those that want docked tails, but I personally prefer the look of a full tail now that I've looked at it more.

But I vote to get the dewclaws removed! Not worth the risk, imo! Here is a picture of a dewclaw that grew into the pad, then_ back out_!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Ouch - that must have been so painful for the dog. Sophy still has her front dewclaws - I watch them extremely carefully for just this reason, although I am also aware that she uses them a lot (she is the only dog I know who licks her paws and washes her face, like a cat!). She actually tore one off last year - I would have expected screams and blood everywhere, but the first I knew was when I came to do the regular trim and she was rather reluctant to let me handle that paw. It's growing back now, but another reason to keep them well trimmed...


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Fjm, his mom didn't even know, she felt so guilty, it was her first furry dog and she couldn't even see his dewclaws.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

FluffySpoos, I agree with you on dewclaws. My Aussie had them and even though I trimmed the nails he would rip them every once in a while and it would bleed like a son of a gun. My Aussie naturally had no tail but his nubbin was very expressive. I can understand how with a working dog a tail might get in the way. I honestly did not even consider this issue with Swizzle but my guess is that the breeder would not have been receptive had I requested a non docked tail.


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## meredian (Nov 5, 2012)

Our breeder docked Wade and it's sort of a nubbin at this point - a little thing. I am wondering if it will appear longer when he is older. He does have his dew claws and we are a little worried about that.


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## Oreo's Mommy (Dec 18, 2012)

Thank you so much for all the info. I love the comment that he will look like a poodle... Brought a huge smile to my face!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

meredian said:


> Our breeder docked Wade and it's sort of a nubbin at this point - a little thing. I am wondering if it will appear longer when he is older. He does have his dew claws and we are a little worried about that.


Actually, it is kind of the opposite. The dog grows into the tail. Jazz' tail looked super long as a little puppy, but much less so now. Wade will likely have a bunny tail, which is cute, too! My poodles have their dewclaws. I haven't had any issues with them as long as I keep the nails trimmed short, but theirs are attached and they only have front ones.


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## Oreo's Mommy (Dec 18, 2012)

Just talked to Noodle's breeder and his tail is not docked so he will be a Curley Q more than likely.


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## Dusty Rose (Nov 19, 2012)

*Docking*

Thank you all for sharing you feelings on tail docking. I will be breeding my spoo next year and have already been wondering about this. My girl has been introduced to upland birds and ducks and does not flinch at gun shots. We are also doing agility classes and, at 10 months, she is doing as well as the 2 year old dogs in the class. I do notice that she doesn't do tight turns as well as my other two dogs and I believe that is due to her not having dew claws and having had her tail docked. 

I intend to promote a more "back to the beginning" spoo. Healthy, sturdy, multi purpose dogs, and of course, great family friends.

I am getting a great deal of useful information from this site, thank you all.


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## Oklahoma (Dec 10, 2012)

Tail docking is the norm here in the US but I'm not a fan. We also have two miniature Schnauzers. They both have docked tails and one has cropped ears, which was done prior to us adopting him. If we had our say, they would both have natural tails and ears as we don't hunt. I don't believe in docking or cropping for cosmetic purposes, especially since we don't plan on showing.

I've spoken to a few breeders in the US and Canada that will leave the tail natural as long as you've prepaid for your puppy by a certain age. 

Totally agree about removing dew claws though. We adopted a rescue dog a few years back. Even after telling the groomer that he still had dew claws, they forgot and nearly cut one off. They felt awful and paid for the vet care. They just get in a rhythm and don't expect them to be there. It's a safety issue, at least for us.


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## caroline429 (Mar 5, 2012)

Cali's tail is undocked and she has her dewclaws. She looks just like a poodle.  Except for the glowing devil eyes. LOL


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Cali's tail is particularly short for an undocked tail. Maybe minis have shorter natural tails?? It looks the same length as Jazz' long dock. Are you sure it wasn't docked?

4 months:









7 months









It doesn't look nearly as long now. I prefer a docked tail and dew claws left. I believe most breeders will leave a puppy undocked if the puppy is chosen and fully paid for before two days old if that is what you like. Bonnie has a long dock, too, but she also has a squirrel tail. Jazz has a curve, but it doesn't go over his back. I sometimes wish Bonnie's was docked shorter so it didn't go over:









I actually think my dogs use their dewclaws when running fast and jumping. Maybe it is in my imagination, but it sure looks like they use them in right turns.


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## Dusty Rose (Nov 19, 2012)

I thought "glowing devil eyes" are the poodle, they certainly are with Maya, especially when she thinks I'm not looking!!


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## Jacknic (Sep 14, 2010)

I have two puppies in my current litter that I left undocked per owner's request. I asked that I had a deposit before they were born and that I got to choose the puppies. It is my first time with LT's and they are pretty cute, but I normally do a long dock, I just liket he look.


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## caroline429 (Mar 5, 2012)

outwest said:


> Cali's tail is particularly short for an undocked tail. Maybe minis have shorter natural tails?? It looks the same length as Jazz' long dock. Are you sure it wasn't docked?


I'm positive.  Apart from the fact her breeder told me he didn't dock her tail or remove her dewclaws, I can feel that it wasn't docked. When you feel the last vertebrae in her tail, it is teeny tiny and tapered to a little point. I'm pretty sure if it were docked, the vertebrae would be bigger and the end would be kind of square, not pointed. 

What you see in the picture is the actual length of her tail, with no extra hair on the end of it. This picture was taken just after she was groomed and I'd specifically asked the groomer to leave as little hair as possible on the tip so the tail didn't look too long. Just because it's not docked, I don't want her to end up looking like a PWD!  



outwest said:


> I actually think my dogs use their dewclaws when running fast and jumping. Maybe it is in my imagination, but it sure looks like they use them in right turns.


I used to have two Rottweilers. One had no dewclaws and one had them. The one with the dewclaws was much more agile, I used to do agility with her for fun and she did well at it. Some of it was due to the fact she was a leaner, smaller-boned Rottie than my other one, but you've got to wonder if the dewclaws played a part too. As for Cali, I've never in my life owned a dog as fast and agile as she is. Apart from the running, jumping and turning on a dime, she uses her front paws just like a cat.



Dusty Rose said:


> I thought "glowing devil eyes" are the poodle, they certainly are with Maya, especially when she thinks I'm not looking!!


LOL! I actually thought about that when I posted my comment but that was mainly true when Cali was a puppy. She's a pretty good girl these days.


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