# UK Kennel Club Delays - finding a pup



## Caroline987 (Jun 28, 2021)

For months I’ve been researching the best dog for our family (minipoo) and how to care for it. I’ve also been following Kennel Club like a Hawk to get a feel for what we should be looking for to find the right puppy when the time is right. As we have a holiday at the end of July (next week) we’ve waited until after this to bring one home, so that we can give it our full attention when it arrives.

However, now that we’re ready to approach breeders with interest there have been no litters added for well over a month that are less than 8 weeks old in August! I had hoped to visit the litter when it was registered at about 4 weeks then go home and get insurance and all the other things we need to buy ready to bring the pup home when it’s ready. Being registered so late it feels like we would have to make an on the spot impulse buy on a pup and could regret it. 

How do I find a reputable breeder sooner than when they’re 8 weeks? I’ve looked at breeders near us by distance and there are none, so am happy to travel to England, Scotland or Wales.

Is it the end of the world to bring home an older dog? I keep hearing the first weeks are really important for settling in and getting them used to your family.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

It is not the end of the world to get an older dog. It's just a different starting point . 

You may not be thinking quite this age, but bringing home two almost two year old sisters from a breeder who was changing her breeding program, was the absolute best decision for my husband (first puppy ever) and myself at that time. I hope they felt so also. 

Yes, you miss the puppy phase but ultimately, the bond is no different. We were together around 14 years. 

In fact, when we were looking to add to our family again, we went looking for another older puppy or young adult. That we ended up with two almost 9 week old pups was not our plan. We all survived .


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## Caroline987 (Jun 28, 2021)

That’s a relief to hear. I’m actually dreading the puppy stage as it’ll be like having a baby again. If I could adopt a fully trained, well adjusted dog about a year old it would be perfect 😆. I just want to make sure I’ve trained him well for when he’s older so that he doesn’t have bad habits. Everything I’ve read says that the first months are critical. We have 2 young children who are quite noisy, so I don’t want the pup to be alarmed by them. I do over think everything as you can tell!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Be aware that litters are still selling fast, and reputable breeders may already have a waiting list. You may have to wait a while for your puppy...


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Caroline987 said:


> I just want to make sure I’ve trained him well for when he’s older so that he doesn’t have bad habits. Everything I’ve read says that the first months are critical.


It will depend some on what the pup's life has been in that time. but I can't think of anything that can't be addressed. Our girls weren't wild by any means, but still needed some "education". Being a bit older, they actually were able to focus better. 

If you haven't already been mentioning this to the breeders you're making contact with, go back around to them and let them know you'd be happy with an older pup or young adult. They may be a good source for pups needing a rehoming, or there may be a pup who was held back to assess show quality and then a small show "fault", still flawless as a pet. With lockdowns easing, there are likely to be families that suddenly realize the time they had to devote to their pup has gone.


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## curlflooffan (Mar 27, 2020)

I was on a waiting list for a year but I was also super picky. But the benefit of a waiting list is that you can visit and see the parents/mother even before the litter is born. That its easier to walk away if something isnt how you want it to be because you arent emotionally invested yet. 

That was my plan but covid prevented that. I ended up visiting when the pup was 7 weeks (comes home in september at 15 weeks). Thankfully everything was as promised. Excellent dogs, excellent temperament and good environment for the pups. 

But yeah the first thing I had to sacrifice in my puppy search was timing...


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Caroline987 said:


> there have been no litters added for well over a month that are less than 8 weeks old in August! I had hoped to visit the litter when it was registered at about 4 weeks
> Being registered so late it feels like we would have to make an on the spot impulse buy on a pup and could regret it.
> 
> How do I find a reputable breeder sooner than when they’re 8 weeks?


I think most toys go "home" at 10+ weeks, and most mini's go at 8-10 weeks. It sounds as if you think by visiting at 4 weeks, you'll get to "know" the puppies and that will help you to choose the puppy that is best for you. Many (most I think) good breeders don't let their clients choose the puppies, they evaluate them over the course of the 2+ months they are with them, then at 7 weeks they will do a personality assessment called the Volhard test. After the tests results are known, they can then logically, based on clients wants/needs, place the puppies with the best matching people.
What are you trying to achieve by looking for puppies younger than 8 weeks?
To locate a breeder that is having puppies on your schedule will be very challenging.


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## Caroline987 (Jun 28, 2021)

fjm said:


> Be aware that litters are still selling fast, and reputable breeders may already have a waiting list. You may have to wait a while for your puppy...


Thanks. By reputable, do you mean I should wait for an ‘assured breeder’? I’m happy to wait if that’s a better idea. That’s a good point too that just because some litters are being advertised and remaining on Kennel Club for several weeks it doesn’t mean they’re still available.


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## Caroline987 (Jun 28, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> It will depend some on what the pup's life has been in that time. but I can't think of anything that can't be addressed. Our girls weren't wild by any means, but still needed some "education". Being a bit older, they actually were able to focus better.
> 
> If you haven't already been mentioning this to the breeders you're making contact with, go back around to them and let them know you'd be happy with an older pup or young adult. They may be a good source for pups needing a rehoming, or there may be a pup who was held back to assess show quality and then a small show "fault", still flawless as a pet. With lockdowns easing, there are likely to be families that suddenly realize the time they had to devote to their pup has gone.


 Thanks that’s reassuring to know that older dogs can still be trained too. I’d had stressed how important the first 16 weeks were and that was worrying me about getting a dog later.


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## Caroline987 (Jun 28, 2021)

curlflooffan said:


> I was on a waiting list for a year but I was also super picky. But the benefit of a waiting list is that you can visit and see the parents/mother even before the litter is born. That its easier to walk away if something isnt how you want it to be because you arent emotionally invested yet.
> 
> That was my plan but covid prevented that. I ended up visiting when the pup was 7 weeks (comes home in september at 15 weeks). Thankfully everything was as promised. Excellent dogs, excellent temperament and good environment for the pups.
> 
> But yeah the first thing I had to sacrifice in my puppy search was timing...


This is why I was expecting two visits. The first to meet the breeder and dog’s parents and to get a feel to see if everything seemed legitimate. Just turning up one day and taking a dog away doesn’t give much time to reflect on whether we’ve made the right decision and get everything set up at home. I expected that to be the case here to have two visits, as when I was looking at Kennel club a couple of months ago the litters were being advertised at about 4 weeks old (to collect later when they’re older). Now litters are not being advertised until they’re 8-13 weeks old. So by the time we went for a second visit they would be much older. On the plus side from other comments I don’t need to be worried about taking. Dog over 12 weeks old, which is a relief.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

The 16 weeks isn't a limit to learning, it's more to do with socialization, the exposure of the pup to sights and sounds in the human world, including other humans. 

This time frame is referenced because puppies generally haven't yet learned fear so exposure to new things is easier for them to accept. 

Learning can always happen . Socialization can too, but it might need to be approached a bit differently.


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## Caroline987 (Jun 28, 2021)

94Magna_Tom said:


> I think most toys go "home" at 10+ weeks, and most mini's go at 8-10 weeks. It sounds as if you think by visiting at 4 weeks, you'll get to "know" the puppies and that will help you to choose the puppy that is best for you. Many (most I think) good breeders don't let their clients choose the puppies, they evaluate them over the course of the 2+ months they are with them, then at 7 weeks they will do a personality assessment called the Volhard test. After the tests results are known, they can then logically, based on clients wants/needs, place the puppies with the best matching people.
> What are you trying to achieve by looking for puppies younger than 8 weeks?
> To locate a breeder that is having puppies on your schedule will be very challenging.


I don’t have a date exactly when I want to visit the litter (litter age wise). I would just like to make a visit before I take the dog home, in order to meet the breeder and the parent dogs. I’ve heard so many horror stories about puppy farms. It would also give me time to prepare for the dog by buying insurance, correct size harness, etc. I don’t want to make a rash decision, then get home and realised we didn’t have a good feeling about the place but it’s too late then, if that makes sense? It’s not about choosing which pup. If I knew the breeder was good, I’m sure they would know much better than me. I also definitely dont want a pup too young to leave.

in terms of getting a pup we’re not in a rush. We’ve been talking about it for 4 years but wanted the kids to be a bit older first, so a bit longer is no issue. I just didn’t want to bring a pup home before our holiday next week as we couldnt take it and wouldn’t want to ask my parents to dog sit already when it was so young. So had been waiting until after this holiday.

I just thought it was strange after monitoring Kennel Club for months, that litters are suddenly being 4-13 weeks older when they’re advertised than they were a couple of months ago. Previous responders don’t seem to think that’s a problem though for the pup settling in and being trained, which is reassuring.


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## Caroline987 (Jun 28, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> The 16 weeks isn't a limit to learning, it's more to do with socialization, the exposure of the pup to sights and sounds in the human world, including other humans.
> 
> This time frame is referenced because puppies generally haven't yet learned fear so exposure to new things is easier for them to accept.
> 
> Learning can always happen . Socialization can too, but it might need to be approached a bit differently.


Good to know thanks. I plan to get the pup (and us) booked in for training with a company once we have one, so hopefully they can help with that if any issues.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Rose n Poos said:


> The 16 weeks isn't a limit to learning, it's more to do with socialization, the exposure of the pup to sights and sounds in the human world, including other humans.
> 
> This time frame is referenced because puppies generally haven't yet learned fear so exposure to new things is easier for them to accept.
> 
> Learning can always happen . Socialization can too, but it might need to be approached a bit differently.


^ This. A good breeder will work on exposing young puppies to various things even before they are ready to go home. The pups should have been bathed and had their faces/paws/tail base trimmed several times. They might have gone on car rides, played with the breeder's grandchildren, met other dogs owned by the breeder, romped in the breeder's garden, etc. What you don't want in an older pup is one that has spent its entire life confined to the whelping pen it was born in.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I know there are delays at the KC end registering litters, which may explain why they are older when listed. The KC Assured Breeder scheme is much improved these days, but there are still many good breeders who are not part of it, especially those who have been established for many years or who only breed occasionally. I would start with an email or a phone call to one or two that you are interested in, with a little information about the home you offer and what you hope for in a dog, and take it from there. The dog breeding world is pretty small in the UK, and good breeders tend to know each other, and what litters are available or planned.


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## Caroline987 (Jun 28, 2021)

fjm said:


> I know there are delays at the KC end registering litters, which may explain why they are older when listed. The KC Assured Breeder scheme is much improved these days, but there are still many good breeders who are not part of it, especially those who have been established for many years or who only breed occasionally. I would start with an email or a phone call to one or two that you are interested in, with a little information about the home you offer and what you hope for in a dog, and take it from there. The dog breeding world is pretty small in the UK, and good breeders tend to know each other, and what litters are available or planned.


Thank you, how would I find out who are good breeders to contact, especially if they aren’t on Kennel Club? I assume I should be staying clear of any sites such as Pets4Homes, Gumtree and similar sites. We live in North Yorkshire but are expecting to need to travel out of the area.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would start by contacting any Assured Breeders you like the look of, asking them if they have litters planned or know of any. Champdogs is another good source of breeder information: Miniature Poodle Breeders - Champdogs ® and Pedigree Miniature Poodle Puppies for Sale - Champdogs ®. 

Pets4Homes can be a very mixed bag - if you look for KC registered puppies from health tested parents (not simply vet checked, but tested according to the breed club recommendations) that gives you a starting point for further research. Some very well known breeders advertise there, but so do a lot I would not touch with a barge pole! 

You still have to be sure you are comfortable with the breeder, their dogs and their set up, of course.


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## Caroline987 (Jun 28, 2021)

fjm said:


> I would start by contacting any Assured Breeders you like the look of, asking them if they have litters planned or know of any. Champdogs is another good source of breeder information: Miniature Poodle Breeders - Champdogs ® and Pedigree Miniature Poodle Puppies for Sale - Champdogs ®.
> 
> Pets4Homes can be a very mixed bag - if you look for KC registered puppies from health tested parents (not simply vet checked, but tested according to the breed club recommendations) that gives you a starting point for further research. Some very well known breeders advertise there, but so do a lot I would not touch with a barge pole!
> 
> You still have to be sure you are comfortable with the breeder, their dogs and their set up, of course.


Thank you very much, this is very useful


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## Finn's mum (Mar 11, 2019)

Hi, I found both of my minis through Champdogs. The breeders were nice taking time to find out about us as a family and what we could offer their pups in respect to a good home life. It is a good place to start as is the assured breeders on the KC. If you reach out to breeders on both sites I’m sure they will either be able to help you or point you to a breeder who is planning a litter. Good luck with your search.


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