# Deb's Poodle Inn in Canada?



## linQ (Nov 29, 2016)

Anybody knows or has had interactions with this breeder? Ontario breeder. Really really cute toy poodles on her website.

debspoodlein.com


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

Never heard of her but I don't like what I see on her website. No discussion of showing or testing is the first red flag. Lots of cutesy pictures of untrimmed puppies with chicken nugget tails dressed in clothes, ugh. 

Maybe somebody here can help you find another breeder in Ontario--is that where you are looking?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I would pass. No showing, no field work, no testing. Nothing interesting really.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Even the cutesy name is a bit scary. If you want a quality Toy in Ontario, speak to Cathy Siverns at Cavri Poodles or Carolyn Savage at Denali Poodles.


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## linQ (Nov 29, 2016)

I have no problem with the cuteness but I am worried that she doesn't have any health test for her dogs. I am looking for a red toy or mini poodle. And I don't have a very big budget. How about Kimron Miniature Poodles in Washington State?


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

linQ said:


> I have no problem with the cuteness but I am worried that she doesn't have any health test for her dogs. I am looking for a red toy or mini poodle. And I don't have a very big budget. How about Kimron Miniature Poodles in Washington State?


Denali has some of the loveliest red Toys I have seen. I do not know Kimron but have heard the name and have heard nothing negative.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

linQ said:


> I have no problem with the cuteness but I am worried that she doesn't have any health test for her dogs. I am looking for a red toy or mini poodle. And I don't have a very big budget. How about Kimron Miniature Poodles in Washington State?


I would not go down that road (meaning the original breeder about whom you inquired) for many reasons.

First I would expect to see well groomed dogs and all I see are puppies that have had no grooming done suggesting they will have no experience with a process that should be a routine part of their lives starting when they are young. Little sweaters and such may be covering over poor conformation and make me wonder.

I would also expect to see health testing, genetic information and some evidence of being involved in some sort of dog sports.

Finally I want to urge you to wait until you have more abundant financial resources for getting a good puppy from a good breeder. Although it isn't a guarantee that there might not be a health problem it does shift the balance towards good health and excellent temperament in your favor. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish trying for an "economical" puppy at the expense of problems and heartache later. Those kinds of problems can require deep pockets to resolve. A quality breeder is also more likely to offer you a clear contract with provisions as to how to resolve problems with a pup.

I strongly urge you to check out this thread which has excellent contributions about all sorts of puppy buying experiences and best practices. http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/33522-buying-puppy-safely-basics.html

That said I do hope you find your dream pup and will share lots about the little one when it all comes together.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

if you're talking about as far away as ontario, you may as well look at gail zamora in grass valley, ca. she has some red puppies on her site right now. she does not ship, however, so be aware of that before even looking. also, zamora is a large scale breeder which some people don't like. on the other hand, she doesn't ship, so no one can say they haven't seen the dogs/kennels in person. 

another breeder of red (and other) toys closer to you than ontario is rainbow toy poodles in utah. she has an ad up saying a red/apricot male is available, but her pups seem to move quite quickly. i'm assuming she does ship.

no idea of pricing for either.


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## linQ (Nov 29, 2016)

I appreciate all the replies. I will keep searching for my options. But right now, I feel that Kimron is our best option. Kimron is the closest to us and she says she had genetic tests and offers a 4 year guarantee.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

patk said:


> another breeder of red (and other) toys closer to you than ontario is rainbow toy poodles in utah. she has an ad up saying a red/apricot male is available, but her pups seem to move quite quickly. i'm assuming she does ship.
> 
> no idea of pricing for either.


She does ship. I've talked with her and she's very nice and has gorgeous dogs. Her dogs are on the higher end of the pricing spectrum ($2,500).


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## Bevvie (Jun 17, 2017)

*Deb's Poodle Inn*

It’s unfortunately that a little more research didn’t go into the comments posted here. I have a poodle from Deb’s Poodle Inn so I know first-hand the quality of her dogs and I can assure you that they match each and every testimonial that is on her website. 
We picked up our pup directly from Debbie and had the chance to meet the parents, view the environment and chat with Debbie for a length of time. Our pup was pretty well paper trained by the time we got him home (at 8 weeks). He was clean, well nourished, socialized and grew into an all-round beautiful dog. 
I noticed that some of the comments here focused on “show dogs”, “field work”, etc. If you read Debbie’s About Us page, you’ll realize that she makes a point of not promoting her dogs that way. This does not disqualify a breeder from being a good breeder – rather, it is what YOU want from the dog. In my case, I wanted a loving, healthy, well-socialized dog. I was actually put off from a few of the websites I viewed because of the trend of claiming show-dogs, etc.
When it comes to breeders, it’s very easy to get caught up in the hyperbole of promotion. Suggesting that cutesy sweaters are covering up some sort of poor conformation is way off the mark. Read the testimonials and once you know what you want from a dog, the best thing to do is to make enquiries to the breeder directly. As a dog lover, your own sense of intuition will guide you rest of the way.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Bevvie said:


> As a dog lover, your own sense of intuition will guide you rest of the way.


As a dog lover, I won't support anyone who doesn't show and do health testing. Otherwise, I'd adopt from a shelter or rescue.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Bevvie said:


> It’s unfortunately that a little more research didn’t go into the comments posted here. I have a poodle from Deb’s Poodle Inn so I know first-hand the quality of her dogs and I can assure you that they match each and every testimonial that is on her website.
> We picked up our pup directly from Debbie and had the chance to meet the parents, view the environment and chat with Debbie for a length of time. Our pup was pretty well paper trained by the time we got him home (at 8 weeks). He was clean, well nourished, socialized and grew into an all-round beautiful dog.
> *I noticed that some of the comments here focused on “show dogs”, “field work”, etc. If you read Debbie’s About Us page, you’ll realize that she makes a point of not promoting her dogs that way. This does not disqualify a breeder from being a good breeder – rather, it is what YOU want from the dog. In my case, I wanted a loving, healthy, well-socialized dog. I was actually put off from a few of the websites I viewed because of the trend of claiming show-dogs, etc.*
> When it comes to breeders, it’s very easy to get caught up in the hyperbole of promotion. Suggesting that cutesy sweaters are covering up some sort of poor conformation is way off the mark. Read the testimonials and once you know what you want from a dog, the best thing to do is to make enquiries to the breeder directly. As a dog lover, your own sense of intuition will guide you rest of the way.


You don't have to have an interest in conformation showing or other dog sports to want to work with a breeder who does. What the breeder's interest in pursuing conformation and/or performance titles with their dogs indicates is a concern to breed well built, healthy, well tempered dogs who can be everything from a good couch companion to an OTCh or a GCh. as the owner's interests are oriented.

I agree that the best way to find a good dog is to talk with a breeder, but I am also very well aware that there should be reasons to do so (or not) that can be derived from looking at some basic information on a web site or a FB page or other online presence. 

Bevvie I am glad you had a good experience with this breeder, but I still stand by my original comments (made quite a while ago) regarding what the website showed at the time I looked at it and the questions it raised for me.


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## Bevvie (Jun 17, 2017)

I appreciate your comments and certainly don’t dispute the concepts you put forward. My issue rests more with the severity of postings that outlined what everyone thought of Deb’s Poodle Inn based solely on her website. Forum members directed others to seek out other recommended breeders suggesting a much higher calibre of breeder but with nothing substantive as to why. No one commented on the testimonials or even suggested utilizing the contact tab (or telephone) to ask the questions that need to be asked of any breeder. I doubt very much that Forum members even realize that their very comments (along with Deb’s Poodle Inn) are now in public domain via Google and can easily be searched.

I think we can all agree that most of us are not professional breeders and so, we do look to those who are to help our own understanding. Your link to “Buying a puppy safely – the basics” was very good. And wouldn’t you know it: Deb’s Poodle Inn passed every criteria listed there. But, nobody would have known that because no one asked. You even suggested that her dogs were “cheaper” and that people should wait till their financial resources were more favourable. 

I’m sure that most of the comments may have been well intended. For any of us who have been down the road of purchasing a dog who’s health has been misrepresented and eventually had to succumb to horrendous vet bills, it’s a lesson hard learned. We do know to ask the questions and we’re darn careful about the answers. 

Yes, do the due diligence ... but do it the right way.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

I also wouldn't give this breeder the effort of contacting them. They don't fall on the 'good breeder' scale for me. There is nothing about the parents of the litters, nothing about health testing, no 'proving' their dogs in any way. Just puppies used as props in cute pictures.
My dog is a show dog and he still 'lives life to the fullest'. He also is training for Competition Obedience and Agility.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Bevvie said:


> I appreciate your comments and certainly don’t dispute the concepts you put forward. My issue rests more with the severity of postings that outlined what everyone thought of Deb’s Poodle Inn based solely on her website. Forum members directed others to seek out other recommended breeders suggesting a much higher calibre of breeder but with nothing substantive as to why. No one commented on the testimonials or even suggested utilizing the contact tab (or telephone) to ask the questions that need to be asked of any breeder. *I doubt very much that Forum members even realize that their very comments (along with Deb’s Poodle Inn) are now in public domain via Google and can easily be searched.*
> I think we can all agree that most of us are not professional breeders and so, we do look to those who are to help our own understanding. Your link to “Buying a puppy safely – the basics” was very good. And wouldn’t you know it: Deb’s Poodle Inn passed every criteria listed there. But, nobody would have known that because no one asked. You even suggested that her dogs were “cheaper” and that people should wait till their financial resources were more favourable.
> 
> I’m sure that most of the comments may have been well intended. For any of us who have been down the road of purchasing a dog who’s health has been misrepresented and eventually had to succumb to horrendous vet bills, it’s a lesson hard learned. We do know to ask the questions and we’re darn careful about the answers.
> ...


Defensive much? And yes, I believe the majority of forum members know their words are searchable on Google. What is your point on that?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

zooeysmom said:


> Defensive much? And yes, *I believe the majority of forum members know their words are searchable* on Google. What is your point on that?


I agree with zooeysmom. I think you sell us short if you think we are so naive as to not understand that our words are public. I still stand by mine. As to suggesting that a person wait until their finances are in better shape that is because the real cost of owning a dog, especially one like a poodle with extensive grooming needs, is not anywhere near done with when the puppy is paid for. It is expensive to husband a poodle properly even when in good health. I also think it can be tragic if there are health problems and the person doesn't have the financial resources to cover the expenses of an illness or injury. I know vets who have euthanized dogs whose owners couldn't afford the bills for things that could have been repaired or cured.


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

I stand by my comments. Her website is hardly vestigial, and has hundreds and hundreds of cutesy pictures. But I did not see ONE photo of an adult sire or dam, much less a registered name. And not ONE word about health testing. That website seems designed to appeal to pet buyers' hearts, not their heads.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I only wanted a pet, I did not want show, or agility so I would buy from a breeder that did not advertise those traits in their dogs. Health testing would be important to me. I do agree it is nice to see the parents. When I start searching for poodles for me or for friends I see price ranges in toys, from 1200 to 5500. I personally do not want the care a puppy takes and I have had 2 so I want them 8 months up. That price range falls between 500 and 1500 which works for me


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## Beautiful Blue (Apr 24, 2017)

It's possible I suppose that where Deb's Poodles really needs to step up their game is, 

A BETTER WEBSITE


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## nancylynn_canada (Jun 5, 2017)

linQ said:


> I appreciate all the replies. I will keep searching for my options. But right now, I feel that Kimron is our best option. Kimron is the closest to us and she says she had genetic tests and offers a 4 year
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I am sorry that you are not willing to take into consideration all the great advice you got from very experienced poodle owners.

There are tons of red flags on this website. You are settling for low quality breeding. Having cute puppies on display like dolls does not make a breeder look very serious, and not even showing one single adult is definitely a red flag. 

Did she say what testing she is doing ? Did you ask to see pictures of the parents ?

I understand how eager you are to get your dog, but a healthy little poodle can live 15+ years. 3 months won't make a difference and it might save you heartaches and money.


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## luvdogs (Mar 11, 2016)

I heard great things about the Poodle Puddle in Ontario. I heard about this breeder from a couple of other breeders as I was going down the rabbit trail of finding a mini poo who has a good temperament.


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## Bevvie (Jun 17, 2017)

Hi all!

I really had some hesitancy about re-joining this thread as I seemed to have caused some negative feedback to my previous comments that I didn’t expect. Nevertheless, it’s all good. We live and learn and all love our poodles. That’s probably why we’re so opinionated. 

OK, been reading a lot of comments about health testing and breeder/buyer assurances of a healthy dog. In ways, it’s good that the importance of these tests has become so well known but it can be abused too and we do run the risk of it becoming a bit of a marketing ploy. From my understanding, the health test only indicates that the dog tested is healthy on the day of the test and is not an assurance that the pups will be healthy. Many conditions can appear long after breeding age. 

Please understand, I’m not suggesting that we shouldn’t consider health testing, disregard its results or poo-poo the need for these tests but I think we do have to appreciate that the testing comes nowhere near what our expectations might be of it. The cost factor also has to be considered. For more reliable, extensive DNA testing, how many breeders could stay in business? 

The field of genetics is a very complicated one. Not only mastering the role of genomes ... now we have to understand the role of phenotypes and how that plays into the whole scenario. (Pheno = genes + environment) While its an incredibly fascinating field, it is beyond the scope of most of us ... except in a very general overview way. 

If you’re interested, I’ve included a link to a write-up concerning health tests from the Institute of Canine Biology. It’s a short article and although written by a PhD, it’s very readable and you can get the gist of the science behind it. 
What does "health tested" really mean? - The Institute of Canine Biology

As for luvdogs and nancylynn’s queries about the breeders (Kimron & Poodle Puddle), I can only say that, for me, the best criteria of all is to visit the breeders in person. Quality breeders LOVE to show-off their environments. They LOVE to talk to you about poodles. They LOVE your questions and will try to answer all that they can. A quality breeder will also be evaluating you. They want their pups to go to forever homes. They understand that they’re not transacting just a “specs” deal. They love dogs just like you do. Heck, I’ve even met my current dog’s great-grandmother. And she is a beauty!!!!


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## nancylynn_canada (Jun 5, 2017)

That was not from me. Sorry. I hit post when reading the thread. New yo group. Again. Sorry. 


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## nancylynn_canada (Jun 5, 2017)

Muliti coloured poodles can not be CKC registered or shown. There is UKC. 


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## nancylynn_canada (Jun 5, 2017)

nancylynn_canada said:


> linQ said:
> 
> 
> > I appreciate all the replies. I will keep searching for my options. But right now, I feel that Kimron is our best option. Kimron is the closest to us and she says she had genetic tests and offers a 4 year
> ...


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Bevvie, genomics is genomics whether it be human or canine genomes that one is considering. The technology to do sequencing has gotten so good that it has become very inexpensive, hence 23 and me and being able to order your genome through sites like Ancestry.com. The same cost reductions will apply to canine genomics as the research that identifies disordered alleles advances and more will be revealed through these testing opportunities. While the piece you provided the link to was very comprehensive at the time it was published in March 2015 I suspect much of what is discussed there is ancient history at this point. I would not use the lack of things that could be tested for two years ago as an argument against testing. As more testing is done and more research on heritable conditions advances testing will become more and more meaningful. Again putting hands on a sire and dam, seeing their personalities around people, each other and puppies as appropriate are important and in fact would prevent me from ever wanting to have a puppy shipped to me without having been to the kennel, but I still maintain that health testing is a vital part of a good breeder's profile.


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## nancylynn_canada (Jun 5, 2017)

I health test all my poodles. Just did the nesting that's out there. I used paw genitics 


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

It wouldn't let me do multiquote for some reason, but I'm going to address your testing points one by one:

--In toy poodles especially, cutesy pictures of puppies dressed in clothes are a far more common marketing ploy that talking about testing. 

--DNA tests are definitive for the life of the dog, especially for diseases, such as PRA, that are simple recessives. The recommended tests for toy poodles are a DNA test for PRA, an annual eye exam, and a one-off examination of patellas. The purpose of the latter two are to avoid breeding affected dogs. Doing so won't guarantee no problems, but it will help. The PRA DNA test WILL guarantee that your puppy will not go blind from the most common form of PRA. 

--These tests are not prohibitively expensive relative to the price of a puppy, even with the small litters that toys have. 

--Genetics IS VERY complicated, but a puppy buyer doesn't have to understand everything about genetics to make an informed decision about breeders. The CHIC guidelines for each breed/variety is a straightforward starting point. Is it possible for a breeder to overtest, or to throw the baby out with the bathwater? I think it is, but that is more of a problem with testing that isn't relevant to a breed (the scattershot panels being offered by some companies that test for all sorts of things whether it is an issue in the breed or not). It is also more of a problem with tests with poor validity (e.g., testing as an affected or a carrier doesn't mean the dog will develop or pass on the disease). It is also more of a problem in breeds/varieties where there are urgent genetic diversity issues (e.g., standard poodles). None of the above applies to toy poodles and toy breeders who are testing for PRA, patellas, and eyes. 

https://www.poodleclubofamerica.org/images/HEALTH/Health_Screening_in_Poodles_2016.pdf



Bevvie said:


> In ways, it’s good that the importance of these tests has become so well known but it can be abused too and we do run the risk of it becoming a bit of a marketing ploy.
> 
> From my understanding, the health test only indicates that the dog tested is healthy on the day of the test and is not an assurance that the pups will be healthy. Many conditions can appear long after breeding age.
> 
> ...


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

It is important that when you see a breeder say that they "health test," you find out whether that means genetic health tests or a simple vet check.

Given the smaller gene pool that purebred dogs draw from, it's incredibly important that breeders do genetic health tests and otherwise watch their lines to make sure they're not passing on hereditary diseases. Otherwise you can easily reach a point where nearly all the dogs in a breed are suffering from what could've been preventable health issues. 

Cost or not, it's simply irresponsible to breed dogs without taking genetic health into consideration. 

Personally I can be persuaded on stuff like showing dogs or even mixing breeds, but health tests (not just vet checks) are a dealbreaker for me.


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## Bevvie (Jun 17, 2017)

Thx Lily cd re, Verve & Lisa’s Girl,

To be clear, I am not advocating that health tests are unnecessary and if you read my last post you would understand that. On the contrary. I would like to see better, standardized, controlled testing where one can be assured of their necessity, validity and interpretation. As you point out Lily, we are getting there ... crispr technology is at our doorstep, and I don’t know whether to be afraid or embrace it (ethical issues and all).

Yes, I do have an issue in that I am concerned about the possibility of misrepresentation being applied to health testing. This has been described by Verve and I agree with her totally: 
_I think it is, but that is more of a problem with testing that isn't relevant to a breed (the scattershot panels being offered by some companies that test for all sorts of things whether it is an issue in the breed or not). It is also more of a problem with tests with poor validity (e.g., testing as an affected or a carrier doesn't mean the dog will develop or pass on the disease). It is also more of a problem in breeds/varieties where there are urgent genetic diversity issues (e.g., standard poodles)._

The pet industry is a huge, multi-billion dollar industry. It has infiltrated our pets’ foods, vaccination protocol, vet-care, pharma-care, etc. Yet, it remains a largely unregulated industry. Thankfully, there are now professional challenges to some aspects of the industry. As pet owners, we are left to navigate the truth/untruth of almost every situation ... and it is in the spirit of this why I posted my last comment. 

If you view the article through that lens, I’m sure you’ll appreciate why I included it.


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## Alex1234 (9 mo ago)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> Denali has some of the loveliest red Toys I have seen. I do not know Kimron but have heard the name and have heard nothing negative.


Hello, I was wondering how to contact Denali, I looked on google but was unable to find a website.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Alex1234 said:


> Hello, I was wondering how to contact Denali, I looked on google but was unable to find a website.


Hi there! This is a very old thread, and Arreau hasn’t been back recently. You’re more likely to get a response if you post your question in a new thread over here: Finding the Right Puppy & Breeder

Welcome to the forum.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Alex1234 said:


> Hello, I was wondering how to contact Denali, I looked on google but was unable to find a website.


Here are the search results I got for Denali Poodles:



https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063804961174







__





Denali Poodles


Exhibitor of purebred Poodles and Chinese Crested




www.denalipoodles.com





I’m closing this old thread to further replies, but pop over to Member Introductions if you’d like to say hello and tell us a little about your interest in poodles.


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