# How to have a happy outside poodle? No longer in house



## FozziesMom

have you considered having him eat a diet that doesn't give him the runs? Like a high quality kibble or even raw food? He might be allergic to something in the food.

Just saying, poodles are VERY human centric and I think you are going to have a very sad dog who is not able to be near his people whenever possible. 

Have you also considered day care for him while you are at work?


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## usviteacher

thanks Fozzie. I just got off the phone with our dog trainer/pet sitter. i called her with one of those what to do what to do. 

She thinks that he has giardia again. He's had it twice. 

Talking to her. she suggested that if we sincerely decide to care for him as an outside dog, Maybe we can put his crate in the garage and have him sleep there rather than outside. She suggest getting his tested for giardia again. 

He's on a pretty decent dry kibble. We are aware of his allergies. I am a stay at home mom. so there's no need for full day doggie care. When we are gone for an entire day or more, then the dog is left at the pet sitter. Other than that, dog is crated for short periods during the day. to drop kids to school etc...dr appt. etc.


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## pudlemom

usviteacher said:


> My question is..how do i keep a poodle happy outside? What supplies? He looks so sad..breaks my heart.


No offence but I don't think you can make a poodle happy outside they a people orientated dogs and I think he is going to be very unhappy not being able to be near his people.
I agree with FM I would try and solve the issue that is causing the diarrhea have you spoke with your vet about it? Maybe a diet change will solve this issue,I have had to change foods a couple of times before finding a food that agreed with all my dogs so I know where you are.

I wish I had some good suggestion on how to keep him happy outside,I guess if I were in your position I would try to get as many different stimulating toys as I could and change them out every couple of days to keep him interested, long walks and plenty of play time with you.
I wish you the best of luck I know this must be a hard decision to make and only you can judge what is best for your situation.


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## Olie

Work on the stomach problem. 

I had to change to Raw with my spoo because she just didn't do well with any kibble I tried. For 6 months while we were at work we came home to terrible messes on our carpet - cream colored. BAD! I had to go to Raw feeding. I am not pushing Raw BUT I had an exceptionally wonderful house trained dog (great breeding) and I live in the south - being an outside dog was NOT an option. PLUS I don't care for dogs living outside. 

Get a crate, when you are not around, place her in it. At least you confine any messes. She has lived all this time inside, I kind of feel bad that you would place her outside now....try a new diet and be patient. :act-up:

Poodles LOVE their humans - I am not sure you will find a happy outside poodle


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## flufflvr

Really, the only way I can imagine a poodle happy outside is if you move outside with him. 

Maybe if you can't fix the stomach issue, and this will be chronic, perhaps you could get a dog door so he could race outside when he needs to.


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## Keithsomething

I agree with everyone else...I don't think poodles were made to live outside, I know my girls would go insane if they weren't around people constantly.

Work on the tummy issues, have you taken him to the vet recently?

What sort of food are you feeding? If you have tried the best kibble, I would suggest raw feeding or cooking his food, I know Plumcrazy had alot of success with cooking her Lucy's food

on a side note...I don't like any dog living outside =\
...have you considered rehoming him with someone that would be able to better care for his stomach issues? Or contacting the breeder and seeing what advice they have?


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## schnauzerpoodle

I can't imagine my poodle could be anywhere near happy if he is kept away from the center of the family activities. 

It's not about living inside or outside. It's about his tummy problem. When nobody's home, do you think you can keep him in an exercise pan placed in a non-carpeted area?

Giardia can be tricky. Nickel had it when he first came home and we had to do multiple treatments and tests. 

Good luck!


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## Bella's Momma

I agree with everyone else, he is a sick dog. Get him well. I know it's hard, our baby was sick like that for 6 months. I also thought Giardia several times, but she always tested negative. We finally put her on Z-D (you need a vet Rx, but I would presume you've taken him to the vet often enough to have heard of this). I really resisted and did NOT want to put her on this food, but she is healthy again.


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## jasperspoo

As with everyone else, I'd agree that he'll likely be miserable if he's away from you. Have you thought about crating him overnight so at least it will be contained?


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## usviteacher

Thanks everyone. I just don't know what to do. Its been a Long day for everyone involved. This is a very heart felt post. 

my poor dog is so confused. heck I'm confused. I know that everyone here loves poodles. That's why i remain on the boards. but deep down in my heart. i think it may be best to re-home my boy. I posted a few weeks ago about re-homing him in regards to behavior. now here we go again. 

I question myself/family maybe we weren't ready to have a dog when we purchased him? maybe we are just don't dog people? maybe we are not poodle people? I don't no.

We have such a nice dog. but he is the last on the list in terms of needs being met. His is trained, well groomed, etc. but just last on the list. Its not fair to him. 

He is not meant to be an outside dog. He is use to being right under our foot. As i type this he's barking/howling away outside in the backyard. He is usually in a deep sleep on this back with his legs leaned to the side cuddled next to the couch. 

Please don't judge me..as i said this is a very heart felt post. I just don't know what to do.


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## MGA828

I have to agree with everyone in saying that I just don't see your poodle or any poodle being happy outside. Poodles love and need to be with people, I always call them part human because they thrive on being with us, are so smart, understand us, and love to learn. Sometimes I swear that have some human in them. 

I know my poodles would die out of depression if they were outside dogs, they would just go insane. They hate being away from me and follow me everywhere I go. Most of the time I have to go outside with them or else they will just sit and wait at the door without even going potty.

Your dogs bathroom problem is now his fault at all, he is sick and can not help it. Ontop of that he doesn't feel well, imagine always having the runs, I am sure you won't feel well after awhile. He needs to get healthy again and I am pretty sure the cause of this is from his food. Poodles doe have very sensitive stomachs and sometimes finding a food to agree with them is not an easy thing. Just because your kibble is high quality and such does not mean it will agree with you dog. Both of my girls have very sensitive stomachs and finding a food for them has not always been easy. One of my dogs was on a rx food for years because of her stomach problems. My other one did great on a food and then one day it just stopped agreeing with her and then finding a food that did work was no easy. 

I would get your dog checks out by a vet and make sure he doesn't have gardia or anything else and then work on changing his diet.


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## fjm

If the dog is unhappy, and you cannot make him happy, then I think you should rehome him. It does sound as if he could have either a recurrent infection, or a food intolerance (I cannot tolerate any of the allium family - I sympathise with him!). If he had grown up kept outside with plenty of canine company he might be reasonably happy there. As it is, he has been banished from his family - the most important thing in a poodle's world - for something that he has no control over.

Bring him in, get his digestive problems sorted, and make him part of a happy family life. Or find him another home where he can prosper.


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## first poodle

I remember your other posts about re-homing and as another issue raises it's ugly head I think re-homing is just about the only answer. You need to find a good way to re-home too b/c that in itself puts this dog at risk, I'm sure others can offer advise on how-to.

Until the cause of the illness is identified though, any family is going to have the same problems you have. 

Early in my days on this forum someone took their spoo to a holistic vet or naturopathic vet I think and was finally able to sort out the dietary problems with great success. Each dog is different but our spoo has few problems with any part of her digestive system, but if she's stressed that's where we'll see the results!!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

I agree with everyone else. No dog should live outside, particularly a velcro dog like a Poodles. Do whatever you must to get to the root of the problem and fix it. Poor guy. If he is house broken, cannot imagine how much this embarrasses him. Please....I hope if this is a serious consideration, that you will think about re-homing him instead.


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## faerie

poor pupper. 

i'd get his health in order and then at the same time work on rehoming him. it sounds like it may be the best for everyone. my dogs are outside and inside.

an option for the time being is a run attached to th back door with a pet door and he can go out when his tummy is rumbling?


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## Dallasminis

I know this must be incredibly frustrating and a big mess, but the poor pup is really sick! Hopefully you can get to the bottom of this mystery illness with perseverance, and you have done so much with him already, but if it is just too much for you guys, consider rehoming him to someone who has the time to figure it out. No dog, poodle or no, should have to be separated from his family and relegated to the "outside". A dog is a responsibility the same as a child..so you must do the right thing for him...I don't mean to make a judgement here, but if this is too much for you -look into a poodle rescue, they will have people that that take him if need be...


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## Dallasminis

*How should she go about rehoming when still sick?*

Oh, I just read your recent post where you agree that you should rehome. So I ask everyone on the poodle forum to give you advice on how to do this humanely. All I can think of is poodle rescue, how else could this be handled, guys?


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## taem

usviteacher said:


> Please don't judge me..as i said this is a very heart felt post. I just don't know what to do.


I don't judge you at all. This isn't supposed to be about your quality of life plummeting; this is supposed to be about a relationship that makes life better on both sides. Even if you were to keep the dog in the house, there would be no way for you to disguise your fury and disgust at the runs; and there is no way your dog would fail to pick up on that; that's not a good life for either party. You are in a very difficult position and whatever you decide to do, I hope you will find peace with your decision.


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## Olie

Yes, now I remember the rehoming thread.

Find the dog another home - there are too many issues that are not manageable in your home - simply said. 

I think the dogs being somewhat normal for having stomach issues. But some people just cannot deal/handle that. It is what it is.

I would try a Raw or home cooked diet - place an ad to find a home with an experienced dog owner that can feed a special diet or try a poodle rescue.


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## Keithsomething

if you're serious about rehoming, contact your local poodle club/rescues they're the ones that would be able to best assist you.

If he his having behaviour issues, as well as some health issues , like Olie said, you're going to want an experienced dog owner to have him. I'm not sure where you're located but there are a few poodle clubs on the west coast

Heres the link to the PCA, it has an interactive map that you can click on the area for you and see if there is a rescue close to you.

PCA Rescue

I hope everything works out for you and your boy


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## Poodle Lover

I am very sorry your are having all these problems with your dog. I too remember the previous thread about rehoming. 

I can't imagine any dog, let alone a poodle, being happy living outside. It might be in the dog's and your best interest to find him a new home. I am not being judgmental at all and you are not a failure, sometimes a new home truly is a best solution for everyone.


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## Feathersprings

You have had a lot of great advice here. I hope you know that rehoming your puppy is not a failure on your part...sometimes certain situations just don't work for what ever reason. I think if you could turn him over to rescue they might be able to figure out just what is going on with him and get him on the right track before rehoming so he will more likely find a forever home. I have known happy outside dogs.. But not poodles... In and out maybe.. But I could not listen to mine cry to come in like that.An outside dog often just becomes a responsibility and not a joy like they should be.


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## LEUllman

If you are anywhere in Southern Cal, and do decide to rehome, this is the place to go: Poodle Rescue of SoCal. Madeline is an angel and her husband Brad is a terrific vet. I can't think of anyone better qualified to sort out his health issues and find him a home.


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## Winnow

Hope you rehome the dog. 

No poodles is a outside dog.
They are so bound to there humans.


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## Beach girl

Chiming in with one more point - keeping your sick dog outside could make his problems even worse. If he doesn't already have giardia, keeping him outside makes it more likely he will get it. If he has something else, being exposed to biting insects and other animals' pee and poop (any cats cross your yard?) might complicate matters further.

Plus surely your neighbors will object to your dog's barking and whining.

Do you have a crate to keep him in? I'd put him in the crate for naps, overnight, anytime you can't watch him closely. Other than that, if at all possible, keep him in easily cleaned up rooms when you are there (like the kitchen). 

I agree with those who say that rehoming through a poodle rescue sounds like the best plan. Rescue usually have a vet affiliated with them who can make an educated guess at sorting out problems like this.

It's no judgment on you, as others have said. Sometimes things just don't work out.


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## fracturedcircle

poodles are NOT outside dogs.


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## neVar

you will hav issues rehoming him if he's still sick. It's just the truth. 

If it was me i'd 

1- TAKE him to the vet 

2-switch his food personally i'd try raw but on kibble i'd look at a grain free like NOW or Orijen. NOt to some 'medical' type food yur vet might recommend

3- i'd contat a rescue get him on the list and let them know YOU will 'foster' him until a home is found. This will get hiim into the resue system much easier. the biggest issues for many resues is lack of foster homes. and we turn dogs away daily due to this issues. be open and honest with his issues.


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## plumcrazy

LEUllman said:


> If you are anywhere in Southern Cal, and do decide to rehome, this is the place to go: Poodle Rescue of SoCal. Madeline is an angel and her husband Brad is a terrific vet. I can't think of anyone better qualified to sort out his health issues and find him a home.


I would think if this is a viable option for you - it would be the BEST one! If Madeline and Brad are able to take Winston, there isn't a better place for him to get his health issues solved and the perfect new family found for him. I went to their site and they do want the rescues they take to be delivered to Ventura County - not sure how far that is from you...

Wishing you the best of luck and praying that your family can get back to normal soon!

Barb


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## CharismaticMillie

usviteacher said:


> Thanks everyone. I just don't know what to do. Its been a Long day for everyone involved. This is a very heart felt post.
> 
> my poor dog is so confused. heck I'm confused. I know that everyone here loves poodles. That's why i remain on the boards. but deep down in my heart. i think it may be best to re-home my boy. I posted a few weeks ago about re-homing him in regards to behavior. now here we go again.
> 
> I question myself/family maybe we weren't ready to have a dog when we purchased him? maybe we are just don't dog people? maybe we are not poodle people? I don't no.
> 
> We have such a nice dog. but he is the last on the list in terms of needs being met. His is trained, well groomed, etc. but just last on the list. Its not fair to him.
> 
> He is not meant to be an outside dog. He is use to being right under our foot. As i type this he's barking/howling away outside in the backyard. He is usually in a deep sleep on this back with his legs leaned to the side cuddled next to the couch.


WOW! I can't believe how nice people are being regarding this situation. I'm not going to be so nice because it sickens me that a person would consider making a poodle, or any dog, an outside dog. I am disgusted that someone would consider tying up any dog, let alone a poodle, outside...

If you are considering making your poodle an outside dog as opposed to actually making your sick dog better, you do *not* deserve to have this dog. You just said yourself that he is last on the list. It should not be that way. 

You should contact your breeder as he/she will want the dog back (assuming it is a reputable breeder). 

I'm not sure how you ended up with a dog in the first place?!?! Did you research what actually goes into providing a loving home for an animal? It involves caring for your dog when he is sick instead of kicking him outside. I hope with all of my heart that you give this dog the home he deserves...


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## taem

I notice that OP is in "West Coast." Two other members here on the west coast, both SF, their poos are going thru digestive issues right now.

Also, I too think poodles are not outside dogs. But I have no basis for believing that other than it feels right, there is no medical or scientific basis for my belief. But I also used to hug my dogs and pet them on the head and stare at them directly for long periods, because it felt right.

Also also, I happen to think there is no such thing as an outdoor companion dog. I don't think this is something unique to poodles.


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## mandyand casey

I to hope you rehome the dog rather then make your dog an outside dog. I see no use to have a dog if it must live outside.
Casey had poop issues for over the first year of his life I was told he was crate trained ya he was trained to poop and pee in his crate. I spent many a day bathing him.
I did put him outside while i went to work in the summer months and it made matters worse as he screamed and cried outside.

I tried foods and other things the one thing that worked the best was giving him a asidopholis pill with each meal they work like magic and stopped the issue on the first dose.
If interested you need to get the ones with at least 2 BILLION active cells

This dog really neads a new home though it sounds from your posts as if he is not the dog for you NO shame in admitting it didnt`work I would find it far worse if you kept the dog as an outside dog living alone and unwanted.


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## onlypoodles4me

I have to agree with everyone. Poodles are not outside only dogs. They long to be with thier people, thier pack. He is young and hopefully someone will be able to devote the time and energy to find out the cause of his issues.
Our first rescue was a dog like yours. He was the last on the list for a busy family. He also had poop issues. With time we were able to correct his poop problems and he turned out to be a great dog for nearly 13 years. Give him the chance to have the life he deserves.


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## PoodleLicious

He is sick. There is no other explination for a house trained dog to be having diarhea in the house other than not being able to hold it in.

If your dog is sick and you cant get him proper vet care or just dont want to then it is most definitely more humane to rehome him than to just let him sit out in the yard living in his own feces feeling sicker and sicker.
he is probably feeling absolutely terribly, not only is he sick, not only is he having embarrasing accidents in his home, but now he is being outcast from his family.

To get his stomache back on track it will take many fecal exams, many tests, possibly a very restrictive diet, lots of cleanup to keep him from being reinfected if its bacteria or parasites, this will cost you.

Rehome rehome rehome. let his new owners know he is sick and because of this has had accidents on the floor. Tell them he needs immediate vetrinary care. Tell them about past giardia. 

If I was adopting your dog before he came to my house I would take him in to the vet for the works. To find out if parasites and bacteria are in his body. 
Because if so, your yard is infected. Which is why this is reaccuring. The new owner can make sure not to infect their yard too thus cutting off the problem. 

Im not judging. It is what it is and this dog needs to be rehomed. Not exiled to the yard for something thats not his fault. No dog, ever, needs to live outside. That is such old world thought.


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## pigasus

I agree with what the other's have said. Your dog is sick. He needs veterinary care. If your primary reaction is disgust at your dirty house and to tie him up in the backyard- you need to rehome. Contact your local poodle rescue, they will be able to give him the care he needs.


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## Rayah-QualitySPs

Dear USVITEACHER;

I am not judging you but think _you_ should _listen_ to your heart. 

You _feel_ Winston should be rehomed so just call a poodle rescue and have them come and get him. Do *not* change your mind. Just do it. 

You will provide the dog with a new home where he is not so confused and you will allow yourself some time to get back on track.

If and when you decide on a new dog try and buy from a breeder who will make sure that they help you pick a dog that will suit your homelife. Sometimes life is just too much for anyone to handle easily.

On a totally different note is the breeder of this dog aware of your problems?

Good luck and please let us know when Winston is in the care of a reputable rescue.


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## FozziesMom

Sorry I've been away from this thread but as most people know dear Fozzie had a horrible vomiting episode and was in the hospital. (imagine the cleaning we did to our carpets!)

USVIteacher, I KNOW how hard dogs can be. Just read my thread on Resource Guarding. http://www.poodleforum.com/23-general-training-obedience/8744-fozzie-resource-guarder.html My poor boy bites when you take a toy away. He could be put down with few objections on most people's parts. I would never give up on him, and his problem is probably 10 times harder to solve than a little poo. I can sympathize with wondering though, and feeling despair and hopelessness. You are not alone. This is hard. You can do it. 

I PROMISE YOU that if you make the commitment to see this through, to not just quit when it gets hard, you will know a love that you have never seen. And one day, when your pup is sick and you think he's going to die (as i just did), you will realize that in spite of how hard it was and is, that he's a part of your life and you could NEVER, NEVER let him go. He will repay you ten thousand fold. 

If you don't feel that, or don't think you could feel that, then by all means, find him a home with someone who will. He deserves that, at least. Yes, I do judge. When I make commitments, I keep them. I think if you are married and/or have children, you must understand that at least a little bit. 

FM
who just spent $1000 on vet bills and prayed for my little dog to survive and is happy he's going to be with me for a while longer, even if he just guarded his own pee just now. :wry grin:


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## grab

Giardia is notoriously hard to clear up..it's generally not a matter of one treatment clearing it up..usually you need to retest to be sure. If he frequents the area he picked it up before, he could easily have picked it up again. Or, it may not have cleared up entirely. Giardia is stubborn.

I would hope that, even if you choose to rehome, you'd treat the medical issue first. If not, please be up front about the issue with the rescue or potential new owners. It is not a matter of the dog 'going in the house'..there is a legitimate medical issue going on. So please make sure they are aware of the issue so that, somehow, the dog's issue can be treated


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## Birdie

Honestly, I was thinking the same thing as CM. I'm shocked that people are being so lax about someone willing to toss their dog outside just because he is ill and they don't feel like fixing it. I can't even imagine why you would have a dog if he is "last on your list" and one sick spell is enough to let you want to rehome him (or keep him on a tie-out for the rest of his life). I just can't even fathom that reasoning. 
I get that you are a kind person, OP, and I do not want to imply anything otherwise, but your best bet is rehoming him through a Poodle Rescue or something like it. If 6 or 7 diarrhea spells is enough to put him permanently outside, then you do not belong with a dog at all. He needs to go with someone who will actually care when he is ill, and not punish him for something that is 100% involuntary and already unpleasant. Sorry OP. You got some good advice on this thread, and I heavily suggest you take it.


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## JE-UK

I remember your previous posts, and would suggest again that rehoming is probably the best solution, and now, before he gets much older.

I am a huge fan of this breed, but would be the first to say they are a very poor choice unless you get your jollies by working with, training, and generally interacting with the dog. I do, so poodles are great for me. It sounds as if you have too many other things competing for your time and attention. 

Making your dog live outside is akin to torture for such a sensitive, needy breed. I can't even imagine how much mine would suffer if I turned around one day and decided he should live outside. Alone. It would be Poodle Hell.


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## taem

It's a touchy subject so let me try to be careful here, and I do not mean to offend anyone. All of my dogs have lived indoors, have slept in my room, and all of my dogs will do so going forward. The issue here is how we react to the prospect of a dog living outdoors.

I just want to point out, non-toy companion dogs living indoors is a very new, western concept practiced by I would guess a minority, or a bare majority at best, of dog owners in the US and England. The position that many of you take, you guys are essentially asserting that a great many companion dogs in the US should be rehomed, and pretty much all pet dogs outside Europe and North America. I mean every pet store sells outdoor dog houses.

Secondly, canine companionship and tending to a sick animal are different things. Caring for a sick animal is a wonderful thing to do, and if you have the temperament, circumstances, and finances to do it, you are a hero in my book. But if you don't have the temperament, or the life circumstances, to do that, well then you shouldn't be morally condemned for that. Imho the great majority of dog owners are folks who could provide a wonderful life for a dog without serious issues, and the fact that they might not be in a position to help a dog with issues isn't cause for condemnation.

And in this particular instance, it's not like she's tossing the dog out for going on the carpet once. This is the 6th or 7th time, and this is the first time the dog is going outside afaik (don't know the history here, which is also why I don't want to judge), and she's here just hours after making that decision asking for help. It seems to me what she wants here is way to keep her dog, and I feel for her. I do agree with others that it's not worth trying to keep the dog under these circumstances.

Finally, most of the dog owners on my street, they're gone all day, walk their dogs for about 5-10 minutes at around dinnertime, and you never see those dogs other than that. Even the walks, the dogs never get to sniff anything, they just tugged up the street and then taken in as soon as they poop. To me it's entirely possible this woman is giving her dog a better life than most of our neighbors.


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## CharismaticMillie

taem said:


> It's a touchy subject so let me try to be careful here, and I do not mean to offend anyone. All of my dogs have lived indoors, have slept in my room, and all of my dogs will do so going forward. The issue here is how we react to the prospect of a dog living outdoors.
> 
> I just want to point out, non-toy companion dogs living indoors is a very new, western concept practiced by I would guess a minority, or a bare majority at best, of dog owners in the US and England. The position that many of you take, you guys are essentially asserting that a great many companion dogs in the US should be rehomed, and pretty much all pet dogs outside Europe and North America. I mean every pet store sells outdoor dog houses.
> 
> Secondly, canine companionship and tending to a sick animal are different things. Caring for a sick animal is a wonderful thing to do, and if you have the temperament, circumstances, and finances to do it, you are a hero in my book. But if you don't have the temperament, or the life circumstances, to do that, well then you shouldn't be morally condemned for that. Imho the great majority of dog owners are folks who could provide a wonderful life for a dog without serious issues, and the fact that they might not be in a position to help a dog with issues isn't cause for condemnation.
> 
> And in this particular instance, it's not like she's tossing the dog out for going on the carpet once. This is the 6th or 7th time, and this is the first time the dog is going outside afaik (don't know the history here, which is also why I don't want to judge), and she's here just hours after making that decision asking for help. It seems to me what she wants here is way to keep her dog, and I feel for her. I do agree with others that it's not worth trying to keep the dog under these circumstances.
> 
> Finally, most of the dog owners on my street, they're gone all day, walk their dogs for about 5-10 minutes at around dinnertime, and you never see those dogs other than that. Even the walks, the dogs never get to sniff anything, they just tugged up the street and then taken in as soon as they poop. To me it's entirely possible this woman is giving her dog a better life than most of our neighbors.


In this situation, she is throwing the dog outside *because she cannot deal with him. * She is putting him outside* even though she knows he is unhappy*. She explained herself that the *dog's needs are last on the list.* Someone like this should not own a dog. 

If she was putting the dog outside because he enjoyed being outside? Well..that would be different. 

You have to consider the breed here, Taem. Poodles are a breed that, in particular, need to be close to their owners. These are not independent dogs that are happy outside. 

If you don't have room in your home for your dog, how do you have room in your heart for your dog? I do judge.

When you decide to take in an animal, you are making a promise to that animal that you will tend to that animal in sickness and health. A dog is there for you no matter *what*. If you cannot provide love and care for your companion dog, who is there for you through everything, when they are sick, I don't think you deserve to have a dog. If everyone took pet ownership more seriously, we would not have so many dogs in rescue. 

My heart literally breaks thinking of this poor dog who has only love to give but is tossed outside because of illness. How is that responsible dog ownership? I hope this dog finds a loving home.


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## cliffdweller

ChocolateMillie said:


> WOW! I can't believe how nice people are being regarding this situation. I'm not going to be so nice because it sickens me that a person would consider making a poodle, or any dog, an outside dog. ...


Whoa ! ... _any_ dog ? It's been my experience that many dogs kept outside, under proper conditions (including with the companionship of other dogs), are actually _happier_ than those kept indoors. & I agree with taem, in this respect. In addition, it's hard on dogs to take them from the comforts & conditions of an indoor lifestyle and put them out for a week or more of field trialling in cold, wet & icy weather. These dogs absolutely _love to be out in the fields_; indoors is boring and restrictive in comparison.

But this is not the issue here. It is quite a different matter to take a dog that's grown up amongst humans, indoors, and put it outdoors to live without companionship. I believe a dog, even, perhaps, a Poodle, could adjust well to such a change, provided it's needs were supplied _and it had the companionship of another dog_.

But this is not a possibility here. It compounds the problem &, if I recall correctly, completely negates your desires regarding having a dog in the first place.

This dog is certainly aware of your dissatisfaction and unhappiness, & the stress is not good for anyone.

*________________________*


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## plumcrazy

ChocolateMillie said:


> When you decide to take in an animal, you are making a promise to that animal that you will tend to that animal in sickness and health. A dog is there for you no matter *what*. If you cannot provide love and care for an animal when they are sick, I don't think you deserve to have a dog. If everyone took pet ownership more seriously, we would not have so many dogs in rescue.


A little off topic, (and quite long) but related... I haven't mentioned anything here on the PF yet, but my non-poodle Hannah Banana has had something happen to her health about 3 weeks ago that we're still monitoring. I adopted Hannah when she was somewhere between 3 - 5 years old. We've had her for 9 years. Right around St. Patricks Day, she started showing signs of partial facial paralysis/paresis (the left side of her face basically quit working, her left eye didn't blink, her left jowl hung very loose and slack.)

I took her to the vet and had a complete examination including blood panel done with little to no answers received. She did have slightly elevated white count so the vet put her on antibiotics and gave me some ointment to put into her non-blinking eye to keep it hydrated. A couple of days after her appointment, the right side of her face went slack too, and her balance is wonky... When she's outside, it looks like she's on the deck of a ship being rocked by waves. When she's inside, she is always sitting or lying down - she doesn't move around too much inside anymore... So now we're just keeping her comfortable until she either gets better (best scenerio) or until her quality of life declines to a point where we can't allow her to suffer.

Her appetite is still great (feeding canned food now, since she was getting her rubbery cheeks caught in her teeth while crunching kibble) She still wants to take the steps to the backyard (we have a walkout basement so the dogs have to go down two sets of steps to get to the back door - I had been carrying her downstairs when she first started losing her balance, but "she told me" she felt offended by that, so I let her take the stairs, but I walk down beside her to catch her in case she falls... she hasn't fallen yet!!) I'm putting eye drops or ointment into both eyes several times a day and she does have occasional pee accidents (before her decline in health, we were managing a little age-associated incontinence with Chinese herbs and acupressure - we were managing it very well but whatever it was that she has suffered, has upset that balance and sometimes she just can't hold it) I've been using puppy pads and she uses those if she needs to go between the time I leave for work and come home for lunch or after lunch before the end of my workday. I know she tries as hard as she can to stay clean, and most of the time she succeeds, but I never want to make her feel uncomfortable, so she has the option to go if she needs to.

This is what I signed up for when I looked into Hannah's eyes in 2002 and asked her to come live with me. I can't say that I like it (hell, I HATE it!!) but I will do everything I can to keep her happy and comfortable for as long as I can. I'm in contact with my vet whenever there's a change. She has told me that Hannah may recover, or she may not. She suspects something neurological. Hannah still has a good attitude and appetite and loves to curl up next to me when I'm home for the evening. 

Hannah has me 'til death do us part... and I'm hoping that parting is many years down the road...

Barb


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## CharismaticMillie

nu2poodles said:


> Whoa ! ... _any_ dog ? It's been my experience that many dogs kept outside, under proper conditions (including with the companionship of other dogs), are actually _happier_ than those kept indoors. & I agree with taem, in this respect. In addition, it's hard on dogs to take them from the comforts & conditions of an indoor lifestyle and put them out for a week or more of field trialling in cold, wet & icy weather. These dogs absolutely _love to be out in the fields_; indoors is boring and restrictive in comparison.
> 
> But this is not the issue here. It is quite a different matter to take a dog that's grown up amongst humans, indoors, and put it outdoors to live without companionship. I believe a dog, even, perhaps, a Poodle, could adjust well to such a change, provided it's needs were supplied _and it had the companionship of another dog_.
> 
> But this is not a possibility here. It compounds the problem &, if I recall correctly, completely negates your desires regarding having a dog in the first place.
> 
> This dog is certainly aware of your dissatisfaction and unhappiness, & the stress is not good for anyone.
> 
> *________________________*


It is my personal opinion that no _companion_ dog (I'm not talking livestock guardians here) should be forced to stay outside all of the time. Alone and unhappy. 

Being allowed to romp in the fields is quite different than determining that your previous "inside" dog is now going to be an "outside" dog. When I hear "outside dog" I interpret that the dog will not be allowed in the house. Ever. Not at night, not when you are gone, not in the heat of the summer and not in the dead of the winter.

It is particularly heartbreaking to hear of this happening to a poodle, a known velcro-type breed. She even said _herself_ that her dog was screaming when outside because he was so unhappy.

Anyway, my opinion of inside/outside dogs really isn't important in this situation. A healthy poodle is not going to have diarrhea throughout the house. This is the real problem. I don't see throwing a sick dog outside as appropriate. Treating the issue is part of providing *basic* care for this dog. Then, I do think that this dog probably will do better in a home that is willing to spend the time necessary to work on the behavioral issues and possible lingering health issues. 

And I agree, caring for a needy dog is not for everyone, but it is part of the package when you decide to bring home a dog who depends on you for everything.


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## Feathersprings

I understand what Taem is saying.. Lots of dogs live outdoors happily. i have had a couple (not poodles) that were much happier spending most of their time out. i think in this situation though with this breed, the fact that he is not well and knowing there have been other problems that have made the family consider rehoming in the past that this is not a good situation for this particular dog. it broke my heart when it was posted that he was howling and crying outside  If the dog was well loved and liked staying out and the family spent lots of time out in a yard with the dog....it might work. I have seen just this scenario over and over again though. He most likely will be in the yard with no companionship, become more unruly , destructive and hard to handle and resented for the time and care he takes. We don't all have perfect situations for our dogs.. I don't.. Wish I could spend the hours a lot of people talk about exercising Hoolie for instance, but I don't have the inclination or energy. Hopefully I make up for it in other ways. I know that my poodles would not be happy members of our family if they werent able to be right in there with us participating in out daily lives. For some people it is the idea of having a family dog that is appealing but really having a dog is not...


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## cliffdweller

ChocolateMillie said:


> It is my personal opinion that no _companion_ dog (I'm not talking livestock guardians here) should be forced to stay outside all of the time. Alone and unhappy.
> 
> Being allowed to romp in the fields is quite different than determining that your previous "inside" dog is now going to be an "outside" dog. When I hear "outside dog" I interpret that the dog will not be allowed in the house. Ever. Not at night, not when you are gone, not in the heat of the summer and not in the dead of the winter.
> 
> It is particularly heartbreaking to hear of this happening to a poodle, a known velcro-type breed. She even said _herself_ that her dog was screaming when outside because he was so unhappy.


We are basically in agreement on the issue at hand. 

However, it should be recognized that there _are_ ways of keeping dogs outdoors where the dogs themselves are _very happy _& do not deserve to be imprisoned by human designs on them_ ... (lol, from the "Big Red" school of thought ...)_


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## CharismaticMillie

nu2poodles said:


> We are basically in agreement on the issue at hand.
> 
> However, it should be recognized that there _are_ ways of keeping dogs outdoors where the dogs themselves are _very happy _& do not deserve to be imprisoned by human designs on them_ ... (lol, from the "Big Red" school of thought ...)_


Possible. But I cannot imagine this being the case with any of mine. They sit at the gate and bark if I leave them outside without me for more than 5 minutes.

My dogs would prefer to lay on my bed than be outside alone. Heck, I can't even go to the bathroom without someone pushing the door open with their nose!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

I would highly recommend that you contact the rescue organization mentioned to you previously. They are very close to you geographically. The husband is a vet who will get this boy's health issues in order, then they will find a wonderful, loving, forever home best suited to him and his needs. This situation is not one where you can throw an ad in the paper and try to recoup some of your money. His health issues MUST be dealt with properly for him to be placed successfully, otherwise, he could end up in an unsuspecting home and spend his life being bounced from place to place. PLEASE...I am literally begging you...give this boy a chance to have the life he was meant to have. Give this rescue a call and let him go to them. It will be best for you, your family and this boy.

I have to add...my heart is just sick. You are not happy, your family is not happy, the dog is not happy. Please, let him go to these people and have a happy ending. PLEASE....


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## Jennifer J

Just saw this thread and wanted to put in my 2 cents. If this spoo has had giardia in the past, he is going to have tummy issues for a long time. I speak from experience - I understand how upsetting it is for both you and the dog to have the horrible diarrhea spells. We had to treat 3 times before we erradicated the giardia in Ellie, and for a long time after that she had an extremely sensitive stomach. We had to change heartworm meds, be careful of foods and stress. Had to keep the poops picked up in the yard. Lots of cleaning, crying, and hugging my poor sick dog. It never occured to me to make her an outside dog, re-home her, or anything like that. She was sick. Period. Nor would I ever consider making a poodle a full-time outside dog, especially one raised in the home from puppyhood. It's just not fair to the dog.

Now, if the dog is just not a good fit for your busy family (I well understand having young kids and all that), that's a completely different matter. No matter how well trained you dog is, there will be accidents. They occaisionaly puke, poop, or even pee in the house. And the likelihood of that happening increases later on when that dog gets old as mentioned above. I have a 13 year old mini who has had several issues lately. We visit the vet regularly and make sure the needs of all 3 of our poodles are met. It's a commitment that I made to them the day that I brought them to my home, and one that you made to your dog the day that you brought him home. If you aren't able to keep that commitment to him, rehoming him is the best thing for both of you.

Have you taken him to the vet to be checked out? Do you still want to keep him if the stomach issues can be resolved? If not, please contact the rescue group mentioned before and see what can be done for you boy. Best of luck to you in making this decision for what is best for your family.


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## Keithsomething

Though bit more blunt than I like...I agree with Chocolatemillie...I don't believe that poodles can thrive outside, and I mean living outside my dogs go out all day and love it...but they prefer living in the house XD (my own emotions may weigh into that) 

The part I definitely agree with, is that if you aren't able to care for this dog and meet ALL of his needs sufficiently you should rehome this guy...rehoming is sad, but if its in the best interest of the animal I say it's NEEDED...one shouldn't let their own personal feelings befuddle the situation, you can't deal with the diarrhea (though I think thats just a part of dog owning...) you need to rehome him, not shove the poor guy out the door =\

Hopefully you take the advice given and do what's best for the dog, and not what makes YOU feel happier (unless you being happier is taking the dog to the vet and having his stomach issues evaluated...then by all means do what makes you happy)


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## nlrussell

I have to say that I agree with taem and nu2poodles. There ARE dogs who are quite happy outside. Dogs living inside houses are a relatively new, "Westernized" thing. I believe it is OUR feelings making us feel bad about a dog living outside. Of course the other owners here are talking about their poodles who are accustomed to living inside with their owners, and so those dogs don't understand being put outside. My Border Collies were outside dogs (occasionally coming in when the weather was severe), farm dogs that are owned on farms or dairies are also mostly outdoor dogs. However, these dogs are never just stuck outside and ignored. They are working dogs and their humans are right there outside with them. 

That being said, your dog is not accustomed to living outside, and it sounds as if he may be neglected out there instead of being a companion with someone who is outside with him. If that is the case, do you have an area in your home (laundry room or somewhere like that) where he can live until he is better? If not, or if you are simply "finished", then the most humane thing to do is to find a home for him.


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## usviteacher

Thank you to all. I just got back to the board, I will read through all replies.

short note..

Our dog is positive for girarda. The vet had a very long stern talk with my husband and I. He said we did the best thing to protect our human family from the parasites in our dogs stool. Before spreading in our house and transferring to a human family member and making one of us ill. I have two young children. 

We have taken precautions in sanitizing our home and now sanitizing the area where our boy is temporarily hanging out. 

A bit off topic , but our vet went on about how most dogs are happiest outside with the proper secure living arrangement. As i was hystical about putting our dog outside while we figure out his illness and keeping parasites outside of home. 

Hence my original post coming here to ask YOU all , experienced poodle lovers how to house our dog outside while we sort through his illness. I knew he wouldn't be happy that why i posted here for suggestions. But i also knew that he had to go outside due to stool infection. 

I will be back to post, i want to read thru all the feed back. thank you. 
i will be back to post


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## nlrussell

I think it is very interesting that your vet said that dogs are happiest outside. Did he give a reason? Did he give you any suggestions about how to help your poodle be a happy outside dog? 

I believe you can make this work if you love your dog and want to keep him. You sound like you care for him. You take him to the vet, you take him to a trainer/sitter, you get him groomed, you bathe and feed him. You aren't hitting, kicking, or screaming at him. There are many dogs who live inside who are treated MUCH worse than this. Like someone else mentioned (taem?), many dogs are barely given any attention even if they live inside. (Crated all day long, rarely given attention, rarely given exercise, rarely given training, etc.)

Your sitter/trainer suggested putting his crate in the garage. What about a doggie door leading into the garage where you have an Exercise pen or large crate? If that won't work for you, what about a water-tight, weatherproof dog house outside in the shade? The dog run/kennel should also have a shade/rain cover and be kept clean of mud, feces, etc. Fresh, clean water will have to be consistently added and changed to keep him healthy. You'll still have to do something for severe/extreme weather situations.

However, the MOST important thing if you do this is to make sure your dog has companionship. You'll have to work harder at this than ever. I would think at least an hour or two a day training with your dog, playing with him, brushing him, walking him, etc. (Most outside dogs I know have more than this, though. They ride around with their farmer in the truck, they follow him as he checks his cows, etc. Outside dogs usually have outside people giving them a lot of attention. Some standard poodles are still used for hunting. I'm not sure if they are kept inside or outside, but I found information about those when I was researching poodles.) When he is no longer a danger to other dogs, then taking classes with him would be a good idea to keep you both on track and focused on something. 

I'm not trying to be hateful with this question, but I think it is a good thing to ask yourself. If you can't dedicate the time to him, whether he is inside or outside, then why have him?


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## PonkiPoodles

I can see how most dogs can be happy living outside - given it's more than one dog we are talking about. Leaving one dog outside, I can't see how they can be happy? Dogs are pack animals and need to feel like they are part of a group... even if that group only consists of 2. When living with humans, they consider the humans as part of their pack. So once again, I really can't see how one dog left outside unattended can be happy... on the contrary.. I think those dogs are the neighborhood barkers and trouble makers. 
Animals are social beings... and just like us humans none of them likes being alone... IMO


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## taem

Generally, this thread reminds me a bit of that scene in Persuasion where Anne defines "good company" and Mr Eliot replies, "No Ms. Eliot, that is not _good_ company, that is the _very best_ company." (I have two older sisters...) I think that's what some of you guys are pushing, the ideal, rather than a realistic norm. Let me ask you this: what % of current dog owners do you think would satisfy your standards and be eligible for canine companionship?


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## CharismaticMillie

taem said:


> Generally, this thread reminds me a bit of that scene in Persuasion where Anne defines "good company" and Mr Eliot replies, "No Ms. Eliot, that is not _good_ company, that is the _very best_ company." (I have two older sisters...) I think that's what some of you guys are pushing, the ideal, rather than a realistic norm. Let me ask you this: what % of current dog owners do you think would satisfy your standards and be eligible for canine companionship?


Of course I am pushing the ideal. Owning a dog is not a basic human right. It is a privilege. 

I don't know anyone in _person_ that keeps a companion dog living outside permanently. 

How many people do you know that have outside dogs that aren't neglected? When I see dogs chained outside, my heart hurts. These dogs often are neglected. I don't think I have *ever* seen an outside dog properly cared for. Aside from livestock guardians or other working dogs who have been raised and bred to work outside. 

Perhaps some breeds may be happy kept outside, I wouldn't know because I have never had any breed other than a poodle and never will (allergies). What I can tell you is that my dogs would NOT be happy kept outside permanently. Even if they were together.

ETA: I did not ever expect everyone to agree with my opinion that companion dogs *in general* should not be kept outside. This is my personal belief because when I open my heart to an animal I devote myself entirely. The reason I feel this way is because this animal has no choice in my decision to take over his or her life. I feel that I owe everything to this animal. For this same reason, I feed a prey model raw diet as opposed to processed kibble. 

I do, however, think that it is unlikely for the poodle breed, particularly a poodle who has been socialized with humans since birth, to be happy as an outside dog. I apologize if anyone took offense to my belief that dogs should not be kept outside with no option to be in the house.


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## CharismaticMillie

usviteacher said:


> Thank you to all. I just got back to the board, I will read through all replies.
> 
> short note..
> 
> Our dog is positive for girarda. The vet had a very long stern talk with my husband and I. He said we did the best thing to protect our human family from the parasites in our dogs stool. Before spreading in our house and transferring to a human family member and making one of us ill. I have two young children.
> 
> We have taken precautions in sanitizing our home and now sanitizing the area where our boy is temporarily hanging out.
> 
> A bit off topic , but our vet went on about how most dogs are happiest outside with the proper secure living arrangement. As i was hystical about putting our dog outside while we figure out his illness and keeping parasites outside of home.
> 
> Hence my original post coming here to ask YOU all , experienced poodle lovers how to house our dog outside while we sort through his illness. I knew he wouldn't be happy that why i posted here for suggestions. But i also knew that he had to go outside due to stool infection.
> 
> I will be back to post, i want to read thru all the feed back. thank you.
> i will be back to post


I did not interpret your original post as you were putting your dog outside temporarily until you spoke with the vet. It clearly sounded as though you were turning your dog permanently into an outside dog due to the fact that he was having accidents. It sounded as though you were reacting to the situation of your dog's illness by throwing him outside.

I am glad to hear that you have taken a proactive approach and have taken him to a vet. I still think you should rehome him. What will you do the next time he is ill? How do you plan to deal with his behavior issues? Perhaps this is just not the breed for you or perhaps you should consider a lower maintenance pet.


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## 2719

I feel very sorry for you. You have quite a predicament on your hands. I can see why you would want to put your spoo outside if he is unable to hold his bowels (due to giardia). I know how stressful and awful it is to have to contend with both a sick dog, a putrid mess, and children.
Years ago two of our spoos contracted virulent diarrehea after being at the kennel for a week. For over a week I would awake to find the kitchen floor (where they slept at night) just covered from one end to the other with fecal matter. My son was a toddler at the time...and it was quite stressful to have to clean up a disgusting mess, deal with sick dogs..so I could let my son into the kitchen for breakfast.

Thankfully, with proper medication the giardia can be alleviated and you will see some improvement with your spoo.

A temporary home in the garage should be just that...temporary. But I agree..please don't make him feel isolated...this will stress him out even more and he will have diarrehea from the stress alone.

I agree that the Poodle breed is not meant to be an outside dog. We have four spoos..and even then two of them just do their business and then come right back on the porch and stare in the window at me. They want to be with me...and I mean it...they follow me everywhere. Poodles are not outside dogs...even in groups.

Our neighbour have a labradoodle that he banished to his backyard with access to the garage. That labradoodle was extremely unhappy.

I hope things settle down and your poor sick fellow feels well soon. i have had giardia and it is quite painful in the bowels.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

I am going to go out on limb here...I think most of the reason some of us are reacting to this thread as we are is because it was NOT presented in the original post as a temporary plan for the dog to be put outside. AND for those of us who have been around awhile, I don't believe this is the first time this family has been flustered by this dogs illness. Only the first time, the solution was re-homing him.

This quote: *"I question myself/family maybe we weren't ready to have a dog when we purchased him? maybe we are just don't dog people? maybe we are not poodle people? I don't no.

We have such a nice dog. but he is the last on the list in terms of needs being met. His is trained, well groomed, etc. but just last on the list. Its not fair to him."* tells me a lot. If he is last on the list for his needs being met, and the OP knows this, my heart is telling me this is not the right home for him-period. Perhaps when the children are older, a dog could enhance this family's experiences, but right now it seems like he is just a nuisance to them.


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## partial2poodles

After reading all of these posts then reading about the giardia....my first concern is to protect the children. The giardia will be a small bump in the road of this dogs long life. There is no reason to rehome him and upset his system even more. We all know that moving causes stress. Once he is well, he will be very forgiving and can once again be the family dog. I knew a lady who was building a newhome and her airdale had to live outdoors for 1 winter. It resembled a mammoth but it lived and is now a cherished family member. Quit being so harsh.


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## CharismaticMillie

partial2poodles said:


> After reading all of these posts then reading about the giardia....my first concern is to protect the children. The giardia will be a small bump in the road of this dogs long life. There is no reason to rehome him and upset his system even more. We all know that moving causes stress. Once he is well, he will be very forgiving and can once again be the family dog. I knew a lady who was building a newhome and her airdale had to live outdoors for 1 winter. It resembled a mammoth but it lived and is now a cherished family member. Quit being so harsh.


P2P - Perhaps you missed the previous rehoming discussions in a different thread involving this same OP. This is a trend and I am a firm believer that if someone's gut keeps telling them they need to rehome their dog, it is probably in the best interest of both the person and the dog.

From a completely non-judgemental standpoint, it seems as though the OP might have the right idea about rehoming the dog. Look at Arreau's post.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

ChocolateMillie said:


> P2P - Perhaps you missed the previous rehoming discussions in a different thread involving this same OP. This is a trend and I am a firm believer that if someone's gut keeps telling them they need to rehome their dog, it is probably in the best interest of both the person and the dog.


I agree 100%. I am not judging the OP. Sometimes it just does not mesh. The timing might be off, the dog might not be a good fit, the entire family may not have been on the same page when they got the dog...but I too feel it is in the dogs best interest, and the best interest of the family, that this guy be re-homed. And the rescue in their area would be perfect the one party being a vet.


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## Olie

You know I have made it no secret on rehoming threads on how I despise people that decide to do this quickly and without thinking it through. Clearly this dog was bought from a BYB, she stated it before, it has had nothing but health problems. It's not easy for any family with children to endure the messes and constant care needed to manage a sick dog not to mention constant vet bills.

You tried longer than some - I will give you credit for that. BUT again, he needs another home. He needs to get his health problems fixed this time. Placed on a good diet and in the meantime be looking for another home. It's not his fault and he needs a new home likely a nice couple with no younger children so the focus is on him. He deserves that. 

Everyone has communicated their feelings on it an outside dog. Its pretty much all agreed upon but there needs to be a solution to finding this dog a good home now.


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## fracturedcircle

I do not understand the refusal to _judge_ stuff like "my pet's needs are last" but it doesn't surprise me. lack of judgment has become very common. I just really wish people started seeing their refusal to judge as a problem.


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## CharismaticMillie

fracturedcircle said:


> I do not understand the refusal to _judge_ stuff like "my pet's needs are last" but it doesn't surprise me. lack of judgment has become very common. I just really wish people started seeing their refusal to judge as a problem.


I agree, fracturedcircle. I do judge when someone says their dog's needs are last on the list". See below:



ChocolateMillie said:


> If you don't have room in your home for your dog, how do you have room in your heart for your dog? I do judge.


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## fracturedcircle

ChocolateMillie said:


> I agree, fracturedcircle. I do judge when someone says their dog's needs are last on the list". See below:


yes, I "thanked" you for your earlier post, CM. :smile:


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## JE-UK

taem said:


> I just want to point out, non-toy companion dogs living indoors is a very new, western concept practiced by I would guess a minority, or a bare majority at best, of dog owners in the US and England. The position that many of you take, you guys are essentially asserting that a great many companion dogs in the US should be rehomed, and pretty much all pet dogs outside Europe and North America.


Fair point.

However, there are some "new, western" concepts that we all agree are civilised and beneficial: flush toilets, a ban on public floggings, property rights for women. For me, dogs inside is one of these. For a social species, living alone is torture. I used to occasionally see (moronic) people who'd keep a single horse on its own; the poor horse was invariably neurotic and desperate for company. 

I'm sure there are breeds that would be at least not *totally *miserable living outside, alone, but poodles aren't one of those. And when I see a dog that lives outside, I always question WHY EVEN HAVE THE DOG? What can you possibly get out of that?

Anyway, this is probably the wrong audience for this type of question. People interested enough in their dogs to participate in a forum aren't going to be the types to throw the dog outside and forget it.


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## Rockporters

When you said that he's outside "barking his head off"... that's going to be your next issue to deal with. Angry neighbors, and rightfully so. If they call the Police or Animal Control his health issues will be a walk in the park.

My advice to you is to quit beating yourself up. Re-home the dog, or turn him over to rescue, where he'll get the treatment, attention, and love that he deserves. Clearly you are not prepared, or choose not to be, to take care of him in the way that he needs.

Poodles aren't for everyone. They're incredibly intelligent and not dogs that can be pushed in a corner to be ignored. Your going to cause, and deal with, more behavioral issues by doing this imo. I think your life is about to get harder, not easier, once you head down this path.

BTW what part of CA are you in? Won't it soon be too hot for the dog to be outside for hours at a time?


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## Aidan

When growing up our family dog stayed outside. My parents both had allergies but wanted the kids to have a family pet. They bought food, we did a training class with our dog, the dog regularly saw a vet for yearly shots, etc.. and all of us kids would walk her, play with her, she had a pretty good life. She lived till she was about 14 years old. I hate to think that she was neglected because she stayed outside.

I think a dog can be happy outside..but I think part of the reason my family dog then didn't mind is because it's all she ever knew. If we had a really hot day or snow we did bring her inside. My parents set up a gate in the laundry room and if she had to come in for weather reasons we certainly didn't leave her out there to be uncomfortable. She was usually itching to get back outside after being indoors for a day or so.

Now, once I moved out on my own and got my own dogs..they stay indoors and I couldn't be happier. When my mom comes to visit the dogs have to stay outside more often and they are clearly upset. Luckily it's just the German Shepherd who bugs her allergies..the poodles are allergy friendly! 

For the most part I think dogs should live wherever is comfortable for them. If you allow your dog into your home and then suddenly turn around and make them be an outside dog...I don't think that's fair. The dog doesn't understand why he's been shut out. You really do have to be consistent with your dog..such a change can really cause more problems.

Good luck with your dog. Just do what you think is best for him..as long as you are putting him first in your decision I'm sure he will be fine!


----------



## taem

ChocolateMillie said:


> Of course I am pushing the ideal. Owning a dog is not a basic human right. It is a privilege...


Here's the thing: my personal views on dog ownership are identical to yours. So I don't quibble with anything you say, in terms of what I would do, that's why I'm not giving specific comments on your points, I don't disagree with them. The only real difference between us is, I consider myself to be wholly unreasonable when it comes to dogs and do not expect my views to be widely held.

I also think that when you look at the mythology and romance of the dog, what humans seem to like most about them is that we can mistreat the hell out of them and they still love us. I think that says a lot about what dogs can expect out of us.


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## cavon

I am a bit surprised that your vet reacted so dramatically about your dog having giardia. My Finnegan suffered with it for 3 months last summer. 

Perhaps I am misinformed but as it was explained to me, while it is true that giardia is contagious contact would have to be direct to transfer the parasite. Basically, in dog terms, one dog would have to shove his nose right into the infected poop or up an infected dogs' butt with some poop present and the parasite would have to be present and live in that particular poop (giardia can be present in one stool sample and not another, which is what makes it so difficult to diagnose or to be sure that it has been eradicated), so children would likely have to touch an infected poop and put their hand in their mouth in order to get it.

I'm not saying that therre isn't a concern, but I don't think the situation is as dire as your vet seems to have indicated.

That being said, did I clean a lot and let diluted bleach sit on my hardwood floor when Finnegan had an accident and i cleaned it up - yes. Did I take him to training or let other dogs sniff him when we were out for walks - no. That is just responsible pet ownership in my opinion.

Did I ever consider putting him outside until he was better - not a chance.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

fracturedcircle said:


> I do not understand the refusal to _judge_ stuff like "my pet's needs are last" but it doesn't surprise me. lack of judgment has become very common. I just really wish people started seeing their refusal to judge as a problem.


I do not think any of us has the right to judge anyone else...ever! I am surprised to see you do. We do not know the entire story. We do not know the backgrounds of the people involved. We know nothing about these people. We only know their dog has had issues. I think it is disgusting how judgmental society is today. I have said it before and I'll say it again. If a fifteen year old girl sleeps around, she is judged to be a slut. Do the people calling her names ever think for a moment that perhaps there is something going on in her life that makes her feel it is necessary to give her body to someone who does not care one iota about her? My oldest son is a recovering, hard core drug addict. We live in narrow minded, small town Ontario. He is judged every moment of his life, everywhere he goes, and in everything he does. This affects every aspect of his life, from visitation with his son, to trying to get a part time job, to dating...Nobody has the right to judge him. You can choose to not let certain things or certain people into your life because you do not agree with something, but there is only one entity, in my humble opinion, who has the right to judge...and I know it isn't me!!


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## FozziesMom

this is *such* an interesting conversation. On one hand, i agree that we can all be more compassionate towards others. 

On the other hand, it's tolerance for "bad behavior" that erodes politeness, courtesy, and even ethical/moral considerations. 

Many people saw mistakes being made at Enron, Worldcom, etc; but few spoke up, because "it's not their place to judge."

So while I think in the case of our fictitious 15 year old girl, we should be more compassionate, a certain amount of shame and public humiliation might be good for some banking and corporate executives I can think of.

And to bring it back to dogs....it's often that "refusal to interfere/be nosy" that leads to many things like spousal abuse, child abuse, animal abuse. In so many communities when tragedy happens you hear: "oh they were kind of weird, but it wasn't my place to judge...." our instincts are powerful and sometimes it IS our place to judge else we will have a society with no morals or rules whatsoever.

(ASP so sorry about your son, I have some personal experience in my family with addiction. The word itself comes from the latin root meaning "to be chained." that says a lot to me.)


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

I think there is a HUGE difference between judging and getting involved. How does judging someone or something make any difference? In my opinion, it just shows our own shortcomings.


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## taem

FozziesMom said:


> And to bring it back to dogs....it's often that "refusal to interfere/be nosy" that leads to many things like spousal abuse, child abuse, animal abuse. In so many communities when tragedy happens you hear: "oh they were kind of weird, but it wasn't my place to judge...." our instincts are powerful and sometimes it IS our place to judge else we will have a society with no morals or rules whatsoever.


This is the poodleforum. Purebreds have health issues. Some purebreds, like English Bulldogs, are a form of animal cruelty simply by the fact that they exist, imho. Some of you got rescue poodles; the rest of us are paying $1000+ for these purebreds, rather than going to the pound and donating that money to animal welfare charities. Fact is, I think more people in this country would give us grief for owning a purebred, than would give us grief for keeping a dog outdoors.

Just about every one of you has a poodle with a docked tail. Read what Coren has to say about that -- a docked tail = massive increase in probability of getting in a dog fight. At least with viszla the docking occurs due to split tail; with poos, it's all cosmetic.

Tom Lonsdale would argue that if you give your dog pet food, then you are poisoning them. I will bet Lonsdale would prefer you feed your outside dog RMB, then feed your inside dog Purina.

Etc.

I understand what you're saying here (and it reminds me of "What's the Matter Here?" by Ten thousand Maniacs, one of my fave songs of all time; that song bleeds with the grief and outrage you are expressing), but there's a lot that pisses me off more than a dog living outdoors. And here, I never even thought outdoors was the issue; to me the issue here was being moved outdoors (demoted, kicked out of the pack, etc). Had this poodle started outdoors it would be perfectly fine. It was never the case that poodles moved indoors because they need it emotionally; they moved indoors because someone invented chemical flea/tick control. It really is that unromantic imho. And also, I simply do not believe that a great pyrennes without a herd to protect is any happier outdoors than a poodle.

Btw I haven't been keeping track, but is there a regional split to the opinions here? I grew up in Kansas, where I knew more outdoors dogs than indoors (and weather in Kansas is brutal beyond words). I know CM is in Missouri, but she's probably not in the rapey incestey part of the midwest like I was.


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## Olie

taem said:


> Btw I haven't been keeping track, but is there a regional split to the opinions here? I grew up in Kansas, where I knew more outdoors dogs than indoors (and weather in Kansas is brutal beyond words). I know CM is in Missouri, but she's probably not in the rapey incestey part of the midwest like I was.


I grew up in Pennsylvania and seen both inside and outside dogs. I live in SC now and I rarely here of it here because the heat would kill a dog. Oddly enough this state has high (IMO) incidents of children dieing in cars left unattended in the heat - SICK. More inland then MB.

Anyway - moving an inside pet that has been in a home for over a year outside because of pooping was most of our issues, I thought, I have not read every post. I would have crated anytime I was not in view of the dog. Had a doggy door. But I would have come to a forum for advise. And even though we don't all agree, offering advise/support to the issue is key. I believe our opinions can effect people decisions too, opinions are like :reddy: everyone has one - As long as this thread is now I am not sure the OP needs anymore :ahhhhh:


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## FozziesMom

taem said:


> Btw I haven't been keeping track, but is there a regional split to the opinions here? I grew up in Kansas, where I knew more outdoors dogs than indoors (and weather in Kansas is brutal beyond words). I know CM is in Missouri, but she's probably not in the rapey incestey part of the midwest like I was.


I grew up in Northern Illinois but have also lived in the NYC metro area, as well as San Francisco. So I tend to be more balanced. I can say that raising a dog in an urban area is 10x harder than in the suburbs.


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## bigpoodleperson

Hey FM, off topic, but where in IL did you used to live?


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## Birdie

I'm in Tennessee, but I know mostly indoor/outdoor dogs. I have only known a few outdoor-only dogs, and they were never well off... however, I know plenty of dogs can be fine, happy, and well-cared for as outdoor-only dogs, even if it's not my preference for companion dogs. My issue wasn't the fact that she was making her dog an outdoor-only dog, it was more WHY I thought she was doing it. I was under the impression she was putting the dog outside permanently because of potty issues, due to an illness that she didn't feel like treating. I'm pretty sure that wasn't actually the case, but that was what angered me. Even still, I wouldn't make my dog that unhappy and force him to live outside for a while just because of an illness... But I do understand OP's sentiment to protect her children if it is that contagious.


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## Curlydogs

I am from NY (suburbs) and I have lived in WA state and upstate NY. I don't see anything wrong with a dog living outside IF that is the life they enjoy and are used to. I think putting a family/house dog outside to live is cruel if the dog does not want to or does not accept staying outside. (Confining an outside dog to a house would probably be just as cruel and hard for a dog to accept.)

With a health issue like Giardia if there a worry that it may be transmitted to children, it seems like keeping the dog in a quarantined area of the house that the children were not allowed to access would be the best/only way to handle the situation until the health issue cleared up. 

It seems impossible to have a "happy outside poodle" if the dog is ill and distressed at being left outside. Not to mention that the stress will likely make it much harder for the dog's health issue to resolve.


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## taem

I just want to add this, two things have increased my natural penchant for laissez faire when it comes to dogs: (1) animal shelter zealots who give me grief by the metric ton (they call me things like "unindicted co-conspirator in the puppy mill industry") and (2) Animal Cops -- holy smokes why do some people even exist. One makes me not want to judge; the other makes me wonder if there is even a standard to judge with.

Anyway, one of the things that this thread made me think about is how a dog views the various parts of a house and the lot it sits on. I'm not sure they draw a sharp distinction according to where the walls are. For example, a room that a housetrained dog is not in very often might get treated as functionally equivalent to the yard and get pooped in, right? What, to a dog, is the difference between a room far away from its humans and the patio?

I do have one intriguing example to offer but I'm not sure what to make if it. When the first big snow hit, our first toy really didn't like that, she took a few steps out, then started lifting one foot after another shivering, and then demanded to be let in. I let her in laughing but wondering what we'd do for potty. Well she beelined for the garage door and barked a few times. I let her in there and she went potty. So she clearly either defined the garage as outdoors even though it had walls and a ceiling, or, more intriguingly but perhaps romantically, she figured out that this was an area in-between based on the fact that the car was placed here. (Incidentally this is when I began falling in love with poodles, vs my dog. My friends dogs didn't do things like this. My poodles did things like this fairly regularly.)


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## faerie

I"ve been thinking about this. there are so many different views on what is seen as appropriate pet treatment.

i got reamed a new one on another forum i frequented when I posted that my inside/outside cat had been killed by dogs who had gotten loose as he was sunning himself in my yard. 

Instead of sympathy (I got some), I also got told how I was partially responsible for his death because I didn't keep my cat as inside only. I live on a dead end road and I have never had an inside only cat. I thought I was a good cat mom. I was told I was not. Obviously in some people's eyes I was not a good cat mom.

With dogs, there are so many variations of what a dog's role is and what is appropriate. Some people think I'm not a great dog mom because I feed them kibble instead of raw. some don't approve of crates. some don't approve of having mroe than one. purchasing akc registered rather than going to a shelter ...

some people see dogs are family members aka furkids with same rights and privileges as a human kid.

Some people see dogs as family member with a job (guarding). some see dogs as working (herding, lhunting, guarding livestock, keeping vermin away etc). some see dogs as livestock. and they make sure that their needs (food, water, shelter, health concerns, etc) are met and offer some affection and attention.


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## northerndancer

Well said faerie. There is no one-size-fits-all human to pet relationship. 

I'm sorry you were judged about what happened to your cat. That serves as a good example of how wrong some of the judgements can be.


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## Chagall's mom

usviteacher said:


> Hi all,
> 
> well 3am this morning. hubby and I agreed that our standard boy will be an outside only dog. He's now 1 1/2 years old and has been in the house since we got him as a pup.
> 
> Anyhow, the main reasoning for moving our boy outside is due to his on/off tummy trouble. Last night he had the runs inside the house. This is maybe the 6th or 7th time. Carpet, his crate, sofa and pooh tracked all over down stairs. We live in a brand new house and it now smells.
> 
> So far, hubby is almost finish with the dog run. We have to put him in a safe confined area at night and during the day when we are away.
> 
> I can't imagine putting him on a long leash and staking it in the ground. when away or not watching him. but he has to be secured.
> 
> He is still digging in the yard and a tad bit destructive , and will dig under our property fence to get to the neighbors yard.
> 
> I know i will have to keep his coat very short as he will dirty quicker. Will still bathe him once a week.
> 
> My question is..how do i keep a poodle happy outside? What supplies? He looks so sad..breaks my heart.
> 
> edit to say that he is house trained. these pooh accidents happens when his stomach is sick and he has instant diarrhea. We realize his stomach is sick after the fact. Also he does not get any table scraps what so ever.


Dear Owner:
It's 3 a.m. in the morning and my intestines cramped so badly they gave way. There was no one up and around soon enough to let me out so I lost all bowel control IN THE HOUSE! I am _so sorry_ I soiled the carpet, the stairs, my crate. I know you must hate me. I hate myself for disappointing you, but honestly try as I might I had absolutely no control over my system. 

I try not to bother you with it, but the truth is I feel sick most of the time. And now, I feel sick at heart because I know how annoyed you are with me. I've known all along I'm not exactly the dog of your dreams: you think I haven't bonded well enough with the kids; you think my allergies and food sensitives are a bother; you think I require a lot whole more time and energy than you have to give. I understand. I forgive you. Please forgive me. 

Please help me, I would help you. You've thought about finding me a new home since at least January;_ I beg you to do it now. _I know you were put out last year when I had Giardia, but honestly, it wasn't my fault! I don't know where on earth I caught it, and I'm sorry I caught it _again_. I certainly don't want to give it to anyone; man, woman, child or dog. I am not a bad poodle, though I am a very sick and sad one. What makes me the saddest is the look in your eyes when you look at me, and the tone of your voices when you and daddy talk about me. I have nothing to give you it seems but my forgiveness. I will leave quietly. 

Don't be concerned with what other people think about you surrendering me. I know you will try very hard to get me to a new home where the people will understand and take care of my needs. If no one else will take me in, maybe the lady in New Jersey who typed this for me will. 

_Thank you_ for the chance to be your dog! I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. You can keep my toys and food bowl and collar and leash; maybe you can sell them to get money to get the places I accidentally soiled professionally cleaned. The kids can have fun with other people's dogs or maybe you can take them to volunteer to walk dogs at the local shelter from time to time. 

I know there's no "perfect" dog any more than there are perfect owners. But you should know I was perfectly happy to try to be your dog. Please just know too it's perfectly okay with me for you to let me go. I will always remember you, when you think of me, please think kindly.

Love & Licks,
Winston


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## PaddleAddict

Chagall's mom, that made me cry. I can just imagine how Winston is feeling and I think you really captured it.

I think everyone needs to stop berating the OP. It only makes her feel guilty and reluctant to rehome this dog. It sounds like rehoming Winston (responsibly, not just dumping him off at a shelter) is not just the best thing for the family, but the best thing for the dog. It has never been a good fit... he would be happier in another home and it sounds like they would be happier not having a dog.


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## Feathersprings

ok, i am sitting here with tears in my eyes... I have had so many rescue dogs come through my home with the same situation. I agree with you PaddleAddict, it is a situation that just didnt work . I have had dogs myself that werent a good fit and am able to look back kindly on them and be happy that though they didnt work for my family ( or me for them) they went on to a home where they were totally appreciated and loved.


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## FozziesMom

Chagall's mom, your post made me cry. I*know* this is how they feel. I just know it. 

i found this part the most heartwrenching:

"I am not a bad poodle, though I am a very sick and sad one. What makes me the saddest is the look in your eyes when you look at me, and the tone of your voices when you and daddy talk about me. I have nothing to give you it seems but my forgiveness. I will leave quietly. "

I certainly agree it's better to responsibly rehome than dump the poor boy in a shelter. So on that alone, I can give the OP a break.


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## CharismaticMillie

I apparently particularly offended the OP, as a thread was created directed specifically at me. I do apologize if anyone was offended. I am a blunt, straightforward speaker. I see no need to sugar coat things. 

I share the same opinion as stated by many others on this thread, but I was specifically singled out for being ":argh:". 

Chagall's post says, in a much more effective and dramatic way, what I and many others were trying to get across the entire time.


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## BigRedDog

*Outside dog*

Sounds like the "tummy trouble"is the problem with him being in the house. You might consider dry kibble dog food (no table scraps, oils etc) for a few days. see if he doesn't improve on that. If he's well housebroken and his stomach is OK he should be fine in the house. I would also get a large crate for overnight so there are no "issues".

Some breeds have senstitive digestions, but almost every dog will get loose with unfamiliar foods. Our dog was fond of the guava tree, so I had to keep her away from that. She was picking fruit off the lower branches for snacks!

My dog loves to be outdoors. She has the strongest hunting instinct of any dog I've ever owned, including my Golden Retriever! I keep her busy with cooked beef knuckle bones from the butcher,a stuffed kong toy and various other interesting things (park is across the street and can be seen from our yard.) I wouldn't leave her out all the time, but she does love it.:amen:


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## taem

Chagall's mom said:


> Dear Owner:
> It's 3 a.m. in the morning and my intestines cramped so badly they gave way. There was no one up and around soon enough to let me out so I lost all bowel control IN THE HOUSE! I am _so sorry_ I soiled the carpet, the stairs, my crate. I know you must hate me. I hate myself for disappointing you, but honestly try as I might I had absolutely no control over my system.
> 
> I try not to bother you with it, but the truth is I feel sick most of the time. And now, I feel sick at heart because I know how annoyed you are with me. I've known all along I'm not exactly the dog of your dreams: you think I haven't bonded well enough with the kids; you think my allergies and food sensitives are a bother; you think I require a lot whole more time and energy than you have to give. I understand. I forgive you. Please forgive me.
> 
> Please help me, I would help you. You've thought about finding me a new home since at least January;_ I beg you to do it now. _I know you were put out last year when I had Giardia, but honestly, it wasn't my fault! I don't know where on earth I caught it, and I'm sorry I caught it _again_. I certainly don't want to give it to anyone; man, woman, child or dog. I am not a bad poodle, though I am a very sick and sad one. What makes me the saddest is the look in your eyes when you look at me, and the tone of your voices when you and daddy talk about me. I have nothing to give you it seems but my forgiveness. I will leave quietly.
> 
> Don't be concerned with what other people think about you surrendering me. I know you will try very hard to get me to a new home where the people will understand and take care of my needs. If no one else will take me in, maybe the lady in New Jersey who typed this for me will.
> 
> _Thank you_ for the chance to be your dog! I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. You can keep my toys and food bowl and collar and leash; maybe you can sell them to get money to get the places I accidentally soiled professionally cleaned. The kids can have fun with other people's dogs or maybe you can take them to volunteer to walk dogs at the local shelter from time to time.
> 
> I know there's no "perfect" dog any more than there are perfect owners. But you should know I was perfectly happy to try to be your dog. Please just know too it's perfectly okay with me for you to let me go. I will always remember you, when you think of me, please think kindly.
> 
> Love & Licks,
> Winston


I know the politically correct thing here is to applaud you. But this post isn't about compassion for the dog imho. This post is about making a human being feel bad. I'm sorry if I'm misreading you but I don't think I am. This thread is chockfull of compassion delivered with a dollop of nastiness.

Silly to say this after this many posts but wow this really is not the thread for me, and this forum may not be the place for me.


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## FozziesMom

Taem, I don't think you need to go away. The OP asked for input, and it was given. In most situations, kindly and with a focus on practical help and advice. compared to other places I've been on the internet, this is one of the least "flamey" places I've been. That's why I stay. 

But yeah, if this thread is upsetting you, a break might be in order. It's just the internet and not worth getting too upset here. All voices are welcome and it's okay to disagree with us. I for one, still like you and can't wait to meet you if you are still going to Poodle Day. After all, you love your Poodle, and that's what we all have in common. 

Warm regards,

FM


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## Chagall's mom

taem said:


> I know the politically correct thing here is to applaud you. But this post isn't about compassion for the dog imho. This post is about making a human being feel bad. I'm sorry if I'm misreading you but I don't think I am. This thread is chockfull of compassion delivered with a dollop of nastiness.
> 
> Silly to say this after this many posts but wow this really is not the thread for me, and this forum may not be the place for me.


My goodness, you sure misread me! I have nothing _but _compassion for both Winston _and_ his owners._ Nastiness?_ Hmm, I guess we see things very, very differently. I've replied to Winston's owner before, when she was contemplating re-homing him. I feel pretty certain she well understands I want the best for everyone; human _and_ canine. Same for you and your poodle, wish you the best whether you choose to stay or go.


----------



## Olie

taem said:


> I know the politically correct thing here is to applaud you. But this post isn't about compassion for the dog imho. This post is about making a human being feel bad. I'm sorry if I'm misreading you but I don't think I am. This thread is chockfull of compassion delivered with a dollop of nastiness.
> 
> Silly to say this after this many posts but wow this really is not the thread for me, and this forum may not be the place for me.


I kind of took it the same way you did. Although I know Chagalls mom is probably one of the most companionable people on this forum. She always brightens threads up with her optimistic attitude and quirky stories. I try not to be so politically correct after 5pm. 

Chagallsmom just to clarify, what did you mean?


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## Chagall's mom

Olie said:


> I kind of took it the same way you did. Although I know Chagalls mom is probably one of the most companionable people on this forum. She always brightens threads up with her optimistic attitude and quirky stories. I try not to be so politically correct after 5pm.
> 
> Chagallsmom just to clarify, what did you mean?


Gee, I'm about plum out of words here! My intended point is that Winston is sick, through no fault of his own; he needs care, the family sounds overwhelmed, there are ways to get him the care he needs and give the family relief as well. No hard feelings intended.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

How in the world did anyone read CM's post and see anything nasty in it? She is the kindest person on this forum, and I do not believe she has a nasty bone in her body. SHEESH!!!


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## Olie

No need to be dramatic LOL!!

This clearly can be interpreted different ways, Although it was a post made for a great kennel commercial where non caring parents give their pets away. 

Get it now??

I know CM is a nice member of this forum. I was taken aback over at first. MY OPINION.


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## FozziesMom

I really see this thread starting to interfere with our harmony around here ...can everyone PLEASE take a deep breath, hug their poodle, and try to get some perspective? We really are more alike than we realize sometimes.


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## Olie

Just because some people seen a post from a different perspective that was not the majority is upsetting the harmony? 

Really???


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## Olie

Here is my real feeling:

I didn't care one bit of outing the dog - posted that.
I gave straight forward advice. I don't agree with letting a dog run free to make messed versus crating and minimizing the impact.

So I agree on most things but because I feel that the post CM made was very good writing and a wonderful story speaking from the perspective of a sick dog a bit insensitive. 

There was a turning part where people were helping and making suggestions for the dog.......saying that to my was inappropriate IMO. So to say the harmony is being messed up after my response...... really?


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## FozziesMom

Olie said:


> So to say the harmony is being messed up after my response...... really?


Don't take it personally, it wasn't aimed at you. It was aimed at *ALL*, and I do mean *ALL* parties, anyone who was feeling perturbed or upset. 

It's this kind of sensitivity that has kept me out of internet forums for years. I have had my share of flame wars, and participated in more than my share too. _I now give people the benefit of the doubt, assume they are coming from a helpful place and try to just breathe and let.it.go. _

This is just the internet. I enjoy coming here for peace, fun, help, relaxation camaraderie. When Fozzie was sick last weekend I sincerely needed that support and safe space. thank you to all who were there. 

The OP asked for help, she was given pretty polite responses, and when you put yourself out there in a public forum you have to be prepared to get what you get. CM was only trying to help too. Neither was wrong. Both OP and CM have been helpful to me on this forum. I value them both. 

I can feel myself starting to get upset because honestly I hate arguing over stuff that doesn't matter. What matters to me is that we all love our dogs, or we wouldn't be here. I hope others can see that. 

Regardless, I have promised myself that I will only participate in online forums when I'm in a mental place where the crap doesn't bother me. So I'm moving on to other topics in this forum. See you there.


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## Olie

I feel its pretty sad that seeing another side of things provokes the dramatics in people as Arreaus did. Really? we cannot continue to hold a conversation without saying _who would ever feel that way geez?_ Well that would be me, what the point? Seems a bit judgmental....wasn't it you Arreau that said judging is just WRONG! 

Mature conversations should be able to continue without playground antics and maintaining respect regardless if you agree or don't for some that will never happen. 

Onward Harmony - so sorry I messed that up because I didn't see one post as agreeable - will my banishment be next?


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

Olie said:


> I feel its pretty sad that seeing another side of things provokes the dramatics in people as Arreaus did. Really? we cannot continue to hold a conversation without saying _who would ever feel that way geez?_ Well that would be me, what the point? Seems a bit judgmental....wasn't it you Arreau that said judging is just WRONG!
> 
> Mature conversations should be able to continue without playground antics and maintaining respect regardless if you agree or don't for some that will never happen.
> 
> Onward Harmony - so sorry I messed that up because I didn't see one post as agreeable - will my banishment be next?


O.M.G.!!! What has happened to you???!!!

You know what...I wasn't even talking to YOU! I am not responding on this thread anymore. This is beyond ridiculous! I did not imply or mean any disrespect to anyone, and I did not judge anyone because their opinion differs from my own. I do however deeply respect and appreciate Chagallsmom and do not believe for one nanosecond that she intended to elicit the kinds of feelings her post obviously stirred up in some here.

Best of luck to the OP in figuring out a solution that works best for your family and your Poodle.


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## spoospirit

_I don't believe your banishment will be next, Olie. 

I would never have read that into what Chagall's Mom was saying because I have never known her to say anything that was other than positive, helpful and loving. I am sure she meant nothing but good for all by it. At least, that is what I read.

Obviously, we all come from different places in our lives and there are certainly some who would interpret the message as negative depending on their experiences. And, you are as much entitled to your opinion as any of us are. You doubted its sincerity and voiced that; which is fine. 

I think, however, it is sad that it has become the focal point for the argument that has erupted. Now the thread appears to have gone off on what the meaning of that one post was. It is no longer focused on the OP and the dilemma before her. 

I think we should take it back there; unless, of course, the OP is no longer following the thread she started. I haven't seen anything recent to indicate that she is still involved or what she has taken from all the discussion here._


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## Olie

What does that mean Arreau? Nothing has happened to me accept I didn't get the jist of a post! And then I didn't like the harmony comment after my post to yours? Why does something have to be wrong with me?

You were just rude! 

Nobody ever questioned CM! I said very nice things but because I didn't get the same as the majority I am, busting up the harmony and now being asked WHAT HAPPENED TO ME. What kind of crap is that?


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## spoospirit

_I haven't weighed in on this thread yet although I have been following it. I don't usually care to get involved in threads that I feel are going to become contentious. I also feel that this is not as easily answered as it may seem. In fact, it think it could be made very complicated.

This fellow obviously has health issues and cannot help having accidents in the home from time to time. Soiling in the house is very upsetting to OP for reasons stated. The poodle is not happy outside as it is an inside, family dog. I don't believe there is anything that you can give to a dog to 'train' it to be a happy outside dog. It goes against its nature.

If this were my poodle and I was struggling with these issues, I would be doing my very best to find him a new, forever home where he will be understood, vetted when needed and loved for who and what he is.

I don't find the OP to be a bad dog owner; just overwhelmed with a problem that she cannot deal with. For her sake, the sake of her family and, of course, the sake of the poodle, I believe this is the kindest thing that she can do for all concerned.

My advice to the OP would be not to get another pet unless fully prepared to deal with whatever comes along with pet ownership. We can never know when we bring home our precious furbies what the future will bring for them or for us. It may be a near perfect 13 years of life with them or many years of endless issues. But, we can prepare ourselves to deal with issues; be they behavioral, health, etc. 

In my home, a pet or a horse is part of the family. It is cared for as a member of the family would be. I put money aside to deal with unforeseen issues. I steal myself for illnesses that cause messes or worse so that I can deal with them. And, when I find myself unable to care for my pets for whatever reason, I rehome to owners that I know will care for them and love them as they deserve to be. 

After becoming ill with Fibromyalgia several years ago, we lost income. A year and a half ago we were no longer able to provide appropriate care for our three horses anymore. I rehomed them all over a period of five months. I even went to the homes to see where my horses were going and under what conditions they would be living. That is what a responsible pet owner has to do. I cried a river, but I did the right thing.

I saw where it was questioned as to how a dog sees its environment. I know with my dogs that they definitely have their own idea of what is off limits and what THEY think is not. My dogs are left loose during the night as they are not destructive. There is the very occasional accident when one can't make it until morning. They will NOT defecate in the house. They will, however, go into our exposed basement where we have a half finished family room (no floor; just the cement slab) and will relieve themselves there. They do not see this area as a place that is part of their environment that they share with their humans. I would actually prefer that they do that than to find them laying in diarrhea and covered in it in their crate.

Also, Dianne's dogs come with her to my home once in a great while. If they are all wet when they come in from play, they go into the basement. They always relieve themselves down there despite the fact that they had been outside and despite the fact that I use a very good cleaner that leaves no odor and accidents are cleaned up immediately. They would never do this in her home.

On the rare occasion when they were gated into the house and had an upset tummy, they chose a spare room with a carpet rather than a bare floor. Perhaps they think of the texture of a carpet as being more like a grassy ground.

We have 10 acres of land. Our dogs will not defecate anywhere near the house. They will run to the wood line along the fields to do their business. Whatever is mowed is, in their minds, off limits. I have no idea what motivates their thinking when it comes to this._


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## Birdie

Fozzie's Mom is right: everyone who is getting upset needs to _breathe_. Okay??  Please? 

Remember... it's the internet, and things are VERY easily misinterpreted and misread in text posts without the body language and vocal inflections we all rely on in conversation; don't take things personally. Fortunately for everyone, this thread isn't about you guys. It's about OP and her dog and her situation, and I agree with Spoospirit to bring it back on topic. This forum has a bad habit of hijacking threads and turning it to personal drama, which is a bit disrespectful when OP is asking for advice and input. 
I have already told OP my opinion on the situation, and apologized because I misunderstood it initially, which is why my post came off as harsh. I still think it is in everyone's best interest to rehome the dog- the match between them just wasn't quite right. And that's fine, it happens. Sometimes people just don't mesh with certain dogs. I know I don't get along with every single dog I meet!


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## Olie

I still feel the dog should be rehomed if the issues cannot be resolved.




Chagall's mom said:


> Don't be concerned with what other people think about you surrendering me. I know you will try very hard to get me to a new home where the people will understand and take care of my needs. If no one else will take me in, maybe the lady in New Jersey who typed this for me will.


I did not pay attention to what you were saying in this statement. Very kind of you to offer to take the dog. I never said a bad word about you as was being implied I just didn't get your entire display. 


The dramatics afterwards.......cant say much on that as I am not the one usually tied up in drama.


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## Beach girl

Giardia

I'm actually not sure where to post this, now that there have been threads started and deleted and not started and so on, but here goes:

*USVITEACHER, * You mentioned in another thread possibly giving Winston some fruit-flavored yogurt you have. BE VERY CAREFUL with any flavored yogurt; most of them have artificial sweeterners in them and those can CAUSE MORE TUMMY PROBLEMS. For safety's sake, if you want to give yogurt, give plain, ONLY, and even plain, read the label to be sure there is no aspertame or other sweetener in it.

Coincidentally, both my guys are now coming off their 5 day treatment for giardia. Pippin went in for his routine annual exam, and the fecal test came back positive. He had NO symptoms.

Casey's fecal test came back negative, but he had had two incidents of vomiting a brownish bile.

So I suggested, and the vet agreed, that the safe thing to do would be to treat them both. They had a 5-day course of Panacur C (a de-wormer) and they are both fine now. The vet also gave me a special shampoo to use on both of them before and after their treatment. 

Other things to beware of: as someone else has stated, it's very, very important to keep your yard clean and to pick up dog waste immediately. ESPECIALLY if Winston should have the habit of eating his poop (Casey did this, too). If he does that, he will constantly be re-infecting himself. If at all possible, it would be a good idea to establish a certain corner of the yard as his "potty area," distinct from the dog run where you keep him. I realize that might not be practical, but whatever steps you can take to keep his potty area separate from his activity area would be good.

I have had outdoor dogs before. When I lived in Africa, I had a guard dog named Killer. Since his purpose was to be a guard dog, he had to live outdoors. He saved my life at least once, by going after someone trying to climb the walls to break into my house. He may have saved my life again by going after a supposed door-to-door "solicitor" in daylight.

We had a human guard on duty at all times (2 or 3 different people over the course of a 24 hour day), and a gardener, so Killer was never alone out there. He was perfectly fine being an outdoor dog. He also spent time inside with me, too, during the day, so I knew he was house-broken and could adapt to being inside. He was fine either way.

Of course it was a warm climate, all year round, so there were no worries about him ever being cold. He had a shaded place to sleep, food and water bowls cleaned every day, and so forth.

Then when I moved back to Washington, I took him with me and he transitioned into being just a pet. He was fine living in an apartment; was wonderfully gentle with children; and still retained enough of his guard dog instincts to bark when someone came to the door or when the phone rang, just exactly what I wanted him to do.

It sounds like you are working hard to do the best you can for both Winston and your family. If you should decide to responsibly re-home him, I hope you don't feel that would be a failure. If you keep him outside, under the conditions you have described, maybe you can make that work, although I would hope it doesn't turn into a long-term thing.

Your child's health has to come first, and that's very understandable. I wish you all the best as you figure out what to do with the whole situation.


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## usviteacher

Thank you Beach Girl. No i will not give Winston anything besides his current medications, dry kibble, and fresh water. 

I will wait for all test to come back normal, re-testing of stool etc. before i give him anything new. Maybe in a few weeks i will add yogurt, enzymes etc. 

His stool is back to normal. 

However, we have pigeons that hang out on top our roof. They pooh along one of our side yards. Winston enjoys sneaking up (tip toeing - gotta catch him on camera) and chasing the birds out of the yard. The new issue is winston licking up the bird pooh then he is immediately marking the spot. 

I went to Home Depot this am and purchased several big plastic owls. They can be used to scare unwanted birds away. Hubby is gonna put some up on the roof edge. I will place some on the ground etc. 

I will call the vet and groomer and ask about special shampoo. 

thanks again

Oh editing to say, Winston eliminates in one corner of the back yard. I am now cleaning up after all bathroom breaks.


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