# Show nail length..how much more do I need to shorten?



## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

We have a ukc puppy class coming up in Jan. and I have been trying to stay on top of her nails every 3-4 days. Though I did it yesterday and went back and did it again today. I was surprised I was actually able to take a little more off. I try to be conservative as I don’t want to hurt her . 
How much shorter do I need to get them?

I just bought a diamond Dremel bit to help ( not really sure if they are that much better than the regular bit). I have a show groomer that is going to groom her for me at the end of December as I don’t really know where to start. I bought the leading edge poodle University but I’m going to watch this time around as she has a lot of hair. 










http://https://www.affordablegroomingshears.com/product/ruff-to-buff-medium-21-diamond-dremel-bits/


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

I don't have any good nail pictures...Poppy is sleeping or I would take some. These illustrations might be helpful for you.


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

This is Zephyr's foot, I dremel his nails once a week. It doesn't matter how often you do it, if you don't get close enough to the quick the vein will keep getting longer. You have to get right down to the quick without going so deep that it bleeds. If the vein has already grown out then it will take some time to get the nail shorter, but if you keep getting right down to the quick the vein will shorten.


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

I guess it’s not a good photo of her sitting down. Here is this a quick close up from this morning (wet from grass) . I’m getting new shears sometime next week so that when I will trim the hair on her feet.

Front foot 








Back foot - I see I can go ahead get the backs again today. Her nails grow so fast.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

Here is Raffi's foot, I use plier style trimmers and do them once every 1-2 weeks. Personally I prefer actual trmers because by taking off a sliver at a time I can see when I am getting close to the quick. For lack of a better description, it looks damp in the center. 
One tip to help shorten them up, is to change your angle and take more off the top of the nail than the bottom. This helps get closer to the quick without actually hitting it and it will shrink back. 
So if you are facing the paw, first trim the 'front' of the nail, angled towards the top of the toe (probably about 45* from the floor), then a little off each side.
I think they look much neater this way too. I do lots of nails trims every week and find this is the best way!


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

I can’t use trimmers because her quick is too close ( or at least I think) . I just got in a diamond bit yesterday and I’m amazed at the difference between this and the normal Bit. Nova doesn’t seem to mind it as much so I think it has less vibration (Sandy seemed to not mind it either). I think it will really help . 

Seems like the side nails I have more work to do.This was this morning. 















I’ve been told before that I did take much off the bottom and that’s why I couldn’t get Sandy’s nail short so I’ve been trying to more of a straight line or a / angle. This bit had a concave so it thinks it’s going to help.

Unfortunately my Dremel kept cutting off when I got to Sandy’s nails so it’s going to bite the bucket soon. It’s lasted almost 7years so I can’t complain even though it’s really loud. Seems like a micro mini is highly recommended so I’m going to try that out.


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## Newport (Jul 16, 2014)

Mel,

It looks like you need to look into using the alternative cut line, rather than just cutting off the ends in the traditional way. 

You can check out this link to see what I'm talking about. Also there is a Facebook group dedicated to dog nail trims- and they have master class information on trimming/dremeling dog nails.

https://www.pawsitivestepsrehab.com/blog/all-about-those-toes-the-importance-of-nail-trims/


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

Mel said:


> I can’t use trimmers because her quick is too close ( or at least I think) .
> 
> There's really no such thing as the quick being 'too close' to use a trimmer, but it does require some practice and confidence to use them. I can certainly understand that you might not feel comfortable using trimmers, but the angles I described would apply to dremeling (is that a word lol?) as well.
> 
> ...





Newport said:


> Mel,
> 
> It looks like you need to look into using the alternative cut line, rather than just cutting off the ends in the traditional way.
> 
> ...


Newport, that's a great visual of what I was trying to say! Thanks!


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

I actually joined up with that group today. I’m still waiting on approval. I thought that’s what I was doing before with Sandy’s nails but the stud owner told me that I need to change the angle that I was doing it and so I’ve been doing it differently.. still got it wrong I guess.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I was still confused by the diagram. Which angle was the correct one?


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

kontiki said:


> I was still confused by the diagram. Which angle was the correct one?


 The diagram from Viking Queen is the 'traditional' or typical way, on the link from Newport the blue line is the correct angle (the orange is the traditional) that will help shorten the nails better. I do all nails that way.
This angle applies to dremeling as well as nail trimmers.


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

One week later... every other day. Not sure they look any different but I changed the way I was doing it and I bought a new dremel. Love that it has a light and I can actually see what I’m doing and where the quick is. This was with the regular coarse bit . The diamond medium one that I have takes too long so I’m going to buy a different one.









She is laying down in both photos.


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

Also if comparing her feet to feet that are not shaved close they look completely different. In the recent photo she is shaved with a 30 (other than the itty bitty stray hairs). She still isn’t perfect with shaving so I get it done quickly then reward .


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

lt takes some time for the vein to shorten, so they won't look much different for a while. Looks like you're doing a good job.


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

reraven123 said:


> lt takes some time for the vein to shorten, so they won't look much different for a while. Looks like you're doing a good job.


Is my goal to get half of where they are currently? It’s really hard for me to tell in photos. Fortunately she is going to a professional master groomer at the end of the month so I can bomb her with questions ?.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

What is the make and model of your new dremel with the light? 
I do not have a dremel yet, and am looking for the best one. My Spoo hates having his feet done so even the groomer does not do them well.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

It looks better to me! Even 1/3 off will be a big improvement, it's hard to tell by a picture exactly how much shorter but I would guess that half is a good goal.


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

kontiki said:


> What is the make and model of your new dremel with the light?
> I do not have a dremel yet, and am looking for the best one. My Spoo hates having his feet done so even the groomer does not do them well.


I’m using a micro mini 8050 . I did get the extended warranty because that the main complaint is that they stop charging after awhile. The light is awesome. 


https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-8050-N-18-Rotary-Accessories/dp/B015DVN4E4/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2JUSH2DDVFGYE&keywords=micro+mini+dremel&qid=1576468538&sprefix=Micro+mini+drem%2Caps%2C230&sr=8-2


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Thanks Mel, it looks interesting. I was a bit startled at how much it costs.

I don't know what groomers have done that he hates having his nails done so much.

What methods have people used successfully for counter conditioning and desensitizing ? Hopefully I can get him to like it.


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

I would join th Facebook group they have a study unit on how to get your dogs comfortable with it. I am going to use some of there tips but while they are all about getting a nail done with no pressure I just get it done with treats before and afterwards (not during because they get too excited) . If they start saying no I don’t want to I’m firm and persistent about getting it done. That won’t work for all dogs. Since I’ve been doing both since they were puppies they pretty much don’t fight me. Nova’s main issue is she wants to bite or lick the dremel..so I have to keep pushing her face away.

There are other dremels that are cheaper but I like this way more than the master groomer dremel that I’ve used for 7yrs. . The light makes it so much easier to see what you are doing and it’s easy to hold. No cord either which is nice.

I hesitated with the price also. The way I figure it is if your doing your own nails and grooming you are saving in the long run so get decent tools. At least that’s what I told hubby when I upgraded my dryer and shears ?.Other dremels will work also but you won’t have the same features. 
www.facebook.com/groups/nail.maintenance.for.dogs/


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## Charleeann67:) (Nov 6, 2017)

Mel said:


> We have a ukc puppy class coming up in Jan. and I have been trying to stay on top of her nails every 3-4 days. Though I did it yesterday and went back and did it again today. I was surprised I was actually able to take a little more off. I try to be conservative as I don’t want to hurt her .
> How much shorter do I need to get them?
> 
> I just bought a diamond Dremel bit to help ( not really sure if they are that much better than the regular bit). I have a show groomer that is going to groom her for me at the end of December as I don’t really know where to start. I bought the leading edge poodle University but I’m going to watch this time around as she has a lot of hair.
> ...


How do you tell if you are down to the quick? I use a Dremel and thought that there would be a white circle (his nails are black) so that is where I should stop.


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

The white circle is the layer that means your getting closer. Near the quick with black nails should be white and then a small black dot in the middle. So if you are seeing all white you aren’t there. If you are trimming with the alternate cut you probably should stop on the top half when you see white and the bottom cut/dremmel line you want to see the dot in the middle. With Nova’s nails it’s hard because her’s is not solid. The light helps me see into the nail and on most of them I can see where the quick is. So the top half I do a \ line until I get close to the quick and the bottom line is a /. I haven’t gotten the angles really down much because I just started with this. Her quick is not long and skinny we are already to the thick part of the blood supply. The middle of Nova’s is pale pink not black so I really have to pay attention.


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

I really like how easy it is to post in this new format. I used to lurk more because it’s not easy to update but now I really like it.

Comparing it close to the first picture I can really see the difference in a week. I will update later to hopefully show a bigger difference.

This one with the wet longer hair is the older pic. The other picture with the blue background was this morning . I did it Tuesday and again on Wed. and was still able to get a tiny bit off. I haven’t done it this morning but looking at the picture It looks like I can take some off again . Just a few touches to each nail but I think that works out better because it’s quicker.

I’m also doing Sandy’s but haven’t taken photos.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

Mel said:


> I really like how easy it is to post in this new format. I used to lurk more because it’s not easy to update but now I really like it.
> 
> Comparing it close to the first picture I can really see the difference in a week. I will update later to hopefully show a bigger difference.
> 
> ...


Mel that looks so much better already! That's great improvement in only a week!


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Mel - Nova's nails look great!!! I'm really impressed. That's a huge difference!

Starvt (or anyone else with a black standard!)- I was wondering if you'd be able to take a photo of a "before and after" in one session of nail clipping. Annie's nails are a bit longer than I'd like even though i do them weekly, and I feel like it's because I am so timid with the clippers after I quicked her when she jerked a few months ago. I feel like it would be really helpful to see the change in one session.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Mel - Nova's nails look great!!! I'm really impressed. That's a huge difference!
> 
> Starvt (or anyone else with a black standard!)- I was wondering if you'd be able to take a photo of a "before and after" in one session of nail clipping. Annie's nails are a bit longer than I'd like even though i do them weekly, and I feel like it's because I am so timid with the clippers after I quicked her when she jerked a few months ago. I feel like it would be really helpful to see the change in one session.


Sorry for the super late response- I had just trimmed Raffi's nails before I read this. I tried to take pictures the next time but they did not work. These are still not the greatest, sorry. Black is so hard to work with!
Raffi is only 5 months so his nails are not as thick as an adult's will be.








You can see that the nail on the left is not trimmed but the one on the right is. Once the nail grows thicker I will be able to shape it better.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Starvt said:


> Sorry for the super late response- I had just trimmed Raffi's nails before I read this. I tried to take pictures the next time but they did not work. These are still not the greatest, sorry. Black is so hard to work with!
> Raffi is only 5 months so his nails are not as thick as an adult's will be.
> View attachment 463625
> 
> You can see that the nail on the left is not trimmed but the one on the right is. Once the nail grows thicker I will be able to shape it better.


Thanks Starvt! Seeing a picture of a "finished" nail is really helpful - I see what you mean about trimming the sides now, and it looks like maybe I can cut a bit further than I currently am. All the pictures I found online previously were of really overgrown nails, which I think look very different.


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

Does anyone know what the white line is when looking underneath the nails . Nova ‘s nails are white. I can’t tell if that’s the quick or not. I’m still working on getting them back but not making much progress..or it’s just slow.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

Mel said:


> Does anyone know what the white line is when looking underneath the nails . Nova ‘s nails are white. I can’t tell if that’s the quick or not. I’m still working on getting them back but not making much progress..or it’s just slow.


Do you have a picture, or can you describe where/when you see it? I'm having a hard time envisioning what you mean.


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

I took her in the sun where I could see better . Sorry pictures are blurry. I think it’s just part of her quick that I’m seeing. It’s been two days since I’ve dremeled.


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

After dremeling the front. Looks better. I think.









Sometimes the angles aren’t great because of the position she is at the time or if she isn’t being still. She still tries to lick the dremel.


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## EVpoodle (Sep 25, 2018)

You are doing a superb job, they are looking much better!


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

Yes the updated picture looks much better. 
The white line, do you mean straight down the inner center? Or the curve that arcs from the sides of the nail up to the bottom and top edges of where you have trimmed? 
That arc, is the dry outer layer of the nail. It's less obvious when using a dremel I think, but the more distinct difference between the outer layer and the visible inside, and the thinner the outer layer, the closer you are to the quick. 
I tried to take some pics of my mastiff. She has whitish/pinkish nails on this foot. Here is untrimmed (sack embarrassingly long):









Here I have just taken the tip off one nail:


















Here the nail is properly trimmed shorter:









You can see the slight curve/angle from the side here. Two nails trimmed and one not:


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

Thank you that helps! Will the thick quick still go back once it’s no longer skinny and long? That’s pretty much where I am at now . I’ve read on another site that if you use a little prep h on the end it will help shrink them faster.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

Yes, the quick will continue to shrink back as long as you keep it close to being exposed. Think of a person's nail, someone who continually keeps them very short has a much shorter nail bed with no sensitivity versus if you have long nails and break one at that same level. You want to trim them just before that point of discomfort, all the way around and not just at the tip of the nail, and then keep them there with regular trims (weekly is good). The bottom naturally wears a bit with walking which is why you should focus your efforts on the top and sides. 
I've never used preparation H, I can understand how it might work, but it seems to me that you would need to be at the level of discomfort for it to actually do anything. I suppose it wouldn't hurt (as long as the dog doesn't lick it).


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

Thank you ❤. I post a update next month to show the progress.


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