# Trying to avoid Hypoglycemia...



## pgr8dnlvr (Aug 7, 2011)

I am a very inexperienced toy poodle owner. I've had dogs all my life but BIG dogs, as in Danes etc. I also work in a vet clinic, so yes, I know all the basics, but its the idiocyncricies of the toy dogs I'd like to know more about.

We got our girl at 8 weeks old and 900 grams (just under 2 lbs). I think she may have still been nursing a bit more than the breeder thought. She was NOT interested in the food due to the stress of coming to a new home I'm sure. Her first day was rough as she was taken for a 30 minute car ride (her first one) to our vet clinic, given her first vaccine, then subjected to waiting in her kennel while I finished my shift at work. I also foolishly pushed her by taking her a few places on her second day as she seemed spunky and actively wanted to be with us all the time. By the third day she went hypoglycemic.

As per vet instruction, after her incident I made sure to feed her even just a little bit every 2 or 3 hours during the day. No easy task since most of the time she's just not interested in eating. I have also been setting my alarm for every 3 or 4 hours through the night and encouraging her to go outside and offering her food. If she won't eat I'd give her a bit of nutrical then off to bed for another nap.

She is now just under 10 weeks and about 2lbs, but I have NO idea how much food is right for her? The feeding instructions on the different food seem ridiculous to myself and the doctor. Getting her to eat a full 1/2 cup of kibble in a day?! Really? Does this sound right to you guys?

I don't think she got quite enough that first week, as "normal" weight gain for toys seems to be about 2-3 ounces a week she gained a little less than one ounce. I guess though we have to keep in mind that she was hospitalized and on fluids the better part of one day, and going through the stress of a new home, so maybe this was ok for her? Vet says I'm being unrealistic in wanting a healthy gain during such a stressful time and I know she's probably right...

Also, for the first time I didn't set my alarm last night, and she slept a full 7 hours. She may have even slept more if I let her. I THINK she went pee once, but she definititely didn't eat any of her food and she was far from interested in eating once I did finally pull her out of her kennel. Yes, she didn't want to get up which seemed strange to me, so I physically took her out of her kennel.

What experiences did you guys have with your toy poodles? How long overnight can they go without eating? I leave food down in her pen as well as pee pads but is this enough? When should I worry about giving nutrical or some other food supplement so as to avoid another crash?

This morning after her long sleep she was a little pale, but really not shaky and she seemed active and happy once she was awake, but no interest in food, so I fed her about 2 tablespoons of moist food by opening her mouth and putting it in one big bite at a time. Is this good or should I have tried waiting to see if she would eat on her own? She can eat on her own and more and more I see her doing it, but we're talking about 6 small puppy kernals. 

Anyway, as you can tell, I'm likely being too neurotic over this, but I sure would appreciate any help, advice, or comparison on how your toy poodles ate when they first came home?

Rebecca


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

I don't think you are being neurotic... she is very tiny. I would be worried, too.

I don't have any experience with toys, so hopefully someone else will chime in. But for what it's worth, 1/2 cup kibble per day seems like a huge amount of food for a 2 pound dog. My mini who is 16 pounds and very active eats 3/4 cup per day.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

What are you feeding her? As little as she is, she's going to need the very best quality food. 

I hope not to offend and I am also a vet tech, but the food most vets carry isn't quite the caliber the food company's say they are. (read the ingredients, Science Diet and Purina are not what they could be). 

As little as your baby is, have you tried goat milk and ground beef? 

Here is a link to one of the best baby formulas I have ever found. You don't have to bottle feed your pup, but my pups get this as a meal mixed with ground beef and they really like and and thrive. Since I am also hypoglycemic/pre-diabetic, I understand how dangerous an episode can be and know just how vitally important a good diet is. Please try this and see how she does. I think you'll be pleased with the results. I always am:

Leerburg | Bottle Feeding

Scroll down a bit for the recipe. There is also a whole lot of info on raw feeding and very hig quality diets, too.

Best wishes for a healthy, happy, long-lived baby!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I have a toy also. He was about 2 pounds when I got him. I did not wake up in the night to feed him but before he went to the bed for the night I would give him a snack for the first couple of months that I had him. I feed Aunt Jenni's which is commercial raw. When I got him from the breeder I kept him on the same brand of kibble for a while as I did not want to introduce too many changes at once. I had no issues with not wanting to eat once I switched to the Aunt Jenni. Swizzle gets so excited that he quivers and he eats every bit I give him. He gets 1.6 ounces two times a day plus treats and bones (he currently weighs almost 6 pounds). With raw you feed 3% of body weight a day. (I overfeed a little bit as Swizzle burns it off as he is very active.) I had a 6 hour drive back from the breeder and I gave him a couple of days before I took him to the vet. When we go to the vet I only allow one shot at a time. I space shots out so it is not as stressful on my dog. They give an Irish Wolfhound the same amount of vaccine they give a toy so it is no wonder it is stressful on his system. My guess is the shot on top with all the activity and stress of a new home caused the problem. I didn't leave pee pads in the crate because I did not want him to go in there. I just would roll out of bed if he wimpered and took him outside. He was soon able to go through the whole night without a problem. I am not an expert but I don't think force feeding is a good idea. You don't want you dog to pick up odd eating habits. Swizzle is a good sleeper to and often does not want to wake up in the morning. This worried me at first as I always had dogs that would bound out of bed but that is just the way he is. I mention this in case this is worrying you. Good luck with your new puppy.


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## pgr8dnlvr (Aug 7, 2011)

BorderKelpie said:


> What are you feeding her? As little as she is, she's going to need the very best quality food.
> 
> I hope not to offend and I am also a vet tech, but the food most vets carry isn't quite the caliber the food company's say they are. (read the ingredients, Science Diet and Purina are not what they could be).
> 
> ...



Thanks so much for the advice and ideas 

I know about choosing quality foods, and yes, our clinic caries almost nothing of the purina and science diet variety. In Canada we have one more added choice in veterinary diets and that is Royal Canin Medical. It was so much better before Royal Canin bought out the company though. It used to be exclusively made in Canada with Canadian sourced ingredients, not so much anymore and my faith is quickly falling, but that's another story 

Yes, after her incident I IMMEDIATELY ran to get fresh whole goats milk, and I honestly think that made the biggest difference in her. It's a blessing for sure. As for other kibbled foods I am using/have tried - Blue buffalo, Go Natural, and Orijen. So I don't think the quality of kibbles is all that bad. I also do some home cooking for her, which she was eating well at the breeders. Since her incident though I haven't pushed on the home cooked due to fact it's not quite as calorie dense, so if I was only going to get a few mouthfulls in, I wanted them calorie dense!

Raw food? Sorry, I do know some of the benefits of it, but I have seen more of the negatives of it, and our clinic will likely NEVER recommend clients use or feed raw. It's completely different if the dog is out there catching their own food, but the second you involve human and the margin for error in it's preparation or quality control? Nope, not for us.

So funny you mentioned ground beef! She does love that the most. I did cut it out though due to worrying about fat content and possibility of contributing to diarrhea (something thankfully we have somehow so far dodged even with the variety in foods). Perhaps I'll cook some up and let her have more, she'll be VERY happy with your suggestion on that!

On a note, she had a GREAT day yesterday and ate two big meals completely on her own accord! I did a happy dance and jig on that success! She had 3 great bowel movements in the day too! I think I'll still be worried about her and how long she fasts overnight for quite some time though. Last small meal was last night about 11:00pm and she still hasn't wanted more than a training treat this am (8:00) so not sure if I'll put some food in her mouth or not. Probably not though since my daughter was able to get her to drink about 3 CC of goats milk  I'd like to give her a chance at anothrer "good day" all by herself!  

Thanks again! 

Any votes on whether to really push getting her to eat in the morning before she seems to want to?

Rebecca


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## pgr8dnlvr (Aug 7, 2011)

CT Girl said:


> I have a toy also. He was about 2 pounds when I got him. I did not wake up in the night to feed him but before he went to the bed for the night I would give him a snack for the first couple of months that I had him. I feed Aunt Jenni's which is commercial raw. When I got him from the breeder I kept him on the same brand of kibble for a while as I did not want to introduce too many changes at once. I had no issues with not wanting to eat once I switched to the Aunt Jenni. Swizzle gets so excited that he quivers and he eats every bit I give him. He gets 1.6 ounces two times a day plus treats and bones (he currently weighs almost 6 pounds). With raw you feed 3% of body weight a day. (I overfeed a little bit as Swizzle burns it off as he is very active.) I had a 6 hour drive back from the breeder and I gave him a couple of days before I took him to the vet. When we go to the vet I only allow one shot at a time. I space shots out so it is not as stressful on my dog. They give an Irish Wolfhound the same amount of vaccine they give a toy so it is no wonder it is stressful on his system. My guess is the shot on top with all the activity and stress of a new home caused the problem. I didn't leave pee pads in the crate because I did not want him to go in there. I just would roll out of bed if he wimpered and took him outside. He was soon able to go through the whole night without a problem. I am not an expert but I don't think force feeding is a good idea. You don't want you dog to pick up odd eating habits. Swizzle is a good sleeper to and often does not want to wake up in the morning. This worried me at first as I always had dogs that would bound out of bed but that is just the way he is. I mention this in case this is worrying you. Good luck with your new puppy.


Thanks for your input CT! Sounds like our dogs are quite similar in size. I'm hoping Lucy hits the 5 or 6lb mark when shes done, I think that's our "ideal" size for her. 

When you gave your pup a snack before bed, about what time would that be? When did he have his first meal of the day?

When you say you didn't use pee pads, but would just take him out when he cried, did you happen to take note of how often he would need out in the night? About how many hours was he able to go comfortably when he was just under 10 weeks?

I am planning on spacing out individual vaccines for sure, luckily due to working in a vet clinic there is no financial problems with spacing things out and doing more visits, heck she is coming to work with me at least once a week anyway. 

On the 12 week booster it is often then that we recommend Bordetella vaccines if going to training classes. I do hope to start classes with Lucy as soon as possible, but if I space out the vaccines then this would delay classes at least four weeks, so I'm not too sure what I'll decide there. I know that Intra Nasal Bordetella is usually decently easy on them though, so I'm just not sure... 

We do go on a very "reserved" vaccine approach at our clinic and use 3 year vaccines wherever possible. I do understand though that there seem to be a lot of people on this forum with strong oppinions on raw feeding and declining vaccines. I can see values on both oppinions and just try to make educated choices wherever I can.  With Lucy, I am more apt to go with titering once boosters are all done! 

Thanks again for the input and any more advice you have will be appreciated!

Rebecca


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## sulamk (Nov 5, 2011)

My toy Marula is 18 weeks old weighs 2kgs she is on royal canin mini junior which says 100grm per day! she never eats more than approx 50grms a day. she also has cooked chicken and veg for one of her meals and is doing very well! The breeder kept the pups until 10 weeks old. I am sure little Lucy will start to pick up soon.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Swizzle usually goes to bed at 11:00 and up at 6:30. I don't feed him immediately upon waking. We go for a short walk and he usually gets fed by 7:00. Usually Swizzle would only wake once at night a few times twice. I would take him out and then he would go right back to sleep. I did not really test the limits when he was young except for at night and would take him out every couple of hours. I did not want him to have an accidents so I gave him every opportunity to do well. I wouldn't do too much pushing of food you don't want it to become an issue. Swizzle was not hungry when he woke up and then it is like a switch was turned on and he would attack it. If you are not comfortable with raw perhaps consider cooked homemade. If you could space out the Bordetella even for a week I think it would be a good idea and I know my vet thinks especially for toys spacing vacines is better. We will agree to disagree about raw. Have you personally seen ill effects?


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