# Let's Chat About: Resource Guarding



## AbBen (May 31, 2020)

Interesting thoughts. Peggy is so lucky that she has humans in her life that work so hard at understanding her. 

There’s a video trend that was going around tiktok (I think anyway, my husband showed me some of these videos) where people would “trick” their dogs by only putting a small portion of a meal then follow with the camera to catch the dogs reaction. There were some funny confused dogs but also some examples of RG behavior and the humans comments were almost always along the lines of “haha, look how mad Fido is at me for only giving them a mouthful of food”. It made me wonder if these people knew what the dogs were doing and were just making a joke for the camera, or did they genuinely not know it was RG?

I personally do not have experience with RG. I do watch all interactions between our guy and my family closely. The other humans don’t always recognize his very subtle poodley communication that he’s uncomfortable and I don’t want him to feel like he has to escalate to be respected. Dog body language can be misinterpreted if you don’t really understand what you’re seeing.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

AbBen said:


> There’s a video trend that was going around tiktok (I think anyway, my husband showed me some of these videos) where people would “trick” their dogs by only putting a small portion of a meal then follow with the camera to catch the dogs reaction. There were some funny confused dogs but also some examples of RG behavior and the humans comments were almost always along the lines of “haha, look how mad Fido is at me for only giving them a mouthful of food”. It made me wonder if these people knew what the dogs were doing and were just making a joke for the camera, or did they genuinely not know it was RG?


Yes! I saw one of those videos and was horrified. It's also pretty common to see "funny" videos of snarling Chihuahuas who appear to be fighting for their very lives while the humans laugh.



AbBen said:


> The other humans don’t always recognize his very subtle poodley communication that he’s uncomfortable and I don’t want him to feel like he has to escalate to be respected.


Are there any particular signs of discomfort you've noticed? 

Peggy, for example, will turn her head away in an exaggerated way. (Or at least it seems exaggerated to me. I'm sure some people might miss it altogether.) Tonight she had a chew in her bed that she usually likes me to hold for her. But when I sat down next to her, she turned her head towards the wall and I immediately left her alone, passing by again only to drop some cheese in her bed. She quickly joined me on the couch to see if I had more cheese, and then ran back to her bed to bring me her chew to hold. Good Peggy. 

Those are the sorts of management techniques I use—respecting signals and very basic counter-conditioning. I'm not following any sort of program because her episodes are so few and far between. Plus they're not specific to food, toys, found objects, etc. which certainly makes things trickier. I'm hoping the webinar will help.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

And P.S. We're lucky to have Peggy, too! She's a fabulous companion in nearly every way. This paragraph from the article I posted above really resonated with me, and especially the very last line:

"Resource guarding is both common and absolutely normal canine behavior. I’m not excusing it or saying that it’s not a problem, but like barking and chewing, it is accepted by many people as part of living with a dog—although clearly, it’s nobody’s favorite part. As is true of other undesirable behavior, though it can be changed and improved with behavior modification, tons of people choose to accept it, figuring that life is too short to demand perfection of their best friends in all contexts."


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Yes, I have experienced it, when I gave my first papillon (and first "own" dog) her first ever raw bone and she turned into a snarling, bug eyed monster. I never gave her a bone again. She also used to guard the warm spot in the bed from me if I got up in the night, although we worked through that one. I hope I am a little wiser these days and more able to recognise and circumvent RG - when Poppy as a puppy decided my lap was hers I immediately started praising and rewarding her for sharing, and putting her down on the floor if she refused. It was many years ago, but she will still - with a rather bad grace - move over when asked to make room for Sophy or one of the cats.

I agree absolutely - it is yet another natural dog behaviour that we humans find unacceptable - more so now than when I was a child, when we were warned not to disturb a dog if it was eating or sleeping, and most especially when it had a bone, with the words "If you do and get bitten then it's your own fault!".


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

I'm looking forward to hearing what you learn, PTP. With my first dog, I had heard of RG described in terms of things, especially food and toys, so it was a surprise to discover Zulu guarded space, sometimes an entire room, and Mia learned to guard me.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> And P.S. We're lucky to have Peggy, too! She's a fabulous companion in nearly every way. This paragraph from the article I posted above really resonated with me, and especially the very last line:
> 
> "Resource guarding is both common and absolutely normal canine behavior. I’m not excusing it or saying that it’s not a problem, but like barking and chewing, it is accepted by many people as part of living with a dog—although clearly, it’s nobody’s favorite part. As is true of other undesirable behavior, though it can be changed and improved with behavior modification, tons of people choose to accept it, figuring that life is too short to demand perfection of their best friends in all contexts."


This really resonated with me as well. While I’m all about good training, of course, I sometimes feel anxious or frustrated because my dog doesn’t “measure up” or isn’t on the right timeline. I think a lot of dog owners can get like this as we expect more and more from our dogs. I have to talk myself down and remind myself that my dog is a dog and he has his own personality and quirks, just like we humans. It’s a great thing that we are learning more and more and we definitely should train to the best of our ability but sometimes, as my husband tells me.... “he’s just being a dog” and that’s ok. 

Sometimes it’s a matter what you feel comfortable with. Each dog and each family situation is unique. Bobby....wait for it....is a master counter surfer. 🤣😱 I’m sure there are all kinds of training tips but for us, we just manage it. We keep the counters clean, he knows the word “Off” quite well...we can live with this. Because it’s just the two of us this is fairly easy to manage and it’s pretty easy to keep an eye on things. If we had a bustling household with children the situation and training would look different. Would I love a dog who wouldn’t even dream of counter surfing? Ever? Absolutely! But for us, we just accept that as dog behavior, definitely impolite and it’s not allowed but it sometimes happens because he is the smart and opportunistic dog that he is. Someday I may work harder with this behavior but that’s another thread. 

As far as resource guarding we have been super lucky with Bobby. However, I was making some mistakes early on when he would grab things he shouldn’t. I would just take things right out of his mouth. No issues. 
But as he started maturing he wound start holding on with a vice grip. Never once growled but I did realize I needed to change things up. So we started doing the “Trade.” We still work on the “Drop” indoors and out. He still loves to find and
steal “treasures,” especially pens and the remote when indoors and nasty face masks when we are outdoors.😉 He responds pretty fairly consistently to both approaches although sometimes he has to take a moment to think about it. 😉


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I haven’t experienced it with any of my dogs that I can remember. When I was young, we had a schnauzer mix that went for my brother’s bare foot while he was walking next to him eating a bone. Back then there was no trying to fix these behaviors and the dog was euthanized.

Beckie does guard her valuables against Merlin. But not against me. I allow it as long as it stays mild, and it always does. But I would intervene if I had to. Merlin doesn’t seem to resource guard but I wouldn’t take anything he likes away from him. I feel he might bite although he never has. In general, I just don’t mess with my dogs eating. I’m horrified when I see videos of people tormenting their dogs and laughing at them growling.

Great subject PTP !


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

It is interesting to me how resource guarding can take different forms. Early on we had virtually no resource guarding issues with Pogo and Snarky. Part of the reason was inherent temperament. Part of the reason was that I always made sure each dog got the same presents and treats. I trained them together to take turns: Pogo would sit and get his treat, then Snarky would sit and get his treat. I think the taking turns training I did with them created confidence that they did not need to compete. Ultimately there was no reward in doing so. Simply wait your turn and good things will come.

However, as he got into his senior years, Pogo got to be very protective of my husband. He would occasionally give me or Snarky the stink eye when we got too close. I think, without ever realizing it, both Snarky and I simply deferred to him or redirected his attention. Snarky would lie on the floor instead of climbing on the couch. I would call Pogo into the kitchen for a treat or call him to go on a walk. The problem is that the cat, being a cat, didn't have the same ability to read Pogo's signals that Snarky and I had. He would approach my husband for pats, and Pogo would react with a snap and and outraged yip. Sometimes it even turned into a chase. Eventually Pogo succeeded in training the cat to steer clear.


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## AbBen (May 31, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Are there any particular signs of discomfort you've noticed?
> 
> Peggy, for example, will turn her head away in an exaggerated way. (Or at least it seems exaggerated to me. I'm sure some people might miss it altogether.)


Many people would choose to ignore it even if they noticed. 

The signals I’m watching for are mostly during play. We like to play you chase me, I chase you in the yard, and it’s all fine until one of the humans catches him in a corner or there’s accidental contact that’s too hard (he crashes into a knee or something). His body language to my eye immediately switches from happy bouncy poodle to I’m feeling nervous about this. Tail drops, face tightens and his whole body stiffens slightly. When I’m playing with him if this happens I immediately disengage and sit down, he takes a moment then comes and sits for snuggles and we recover quickly. The rest of the family doesn’t always catch this and will keep trying to chase him. I don’t as much worry about him doing anything to them (I believe he’s had some unkind treatment from people in the past and from what I’ve seen I think would completely shutdown long before before he acted out, he’s a very soft dog) but I am conscious of his feelings and trust in us. He’s the type of dog where you have to work for everything, I want to keep building up the trust bank. Although I haven’t seen anything RG it’s on my radar and I’ve tried to do some trading work. 

I have to continually remind everyone that he’s not Buddy, an opinionated mixed breed shepherd we had when the kids were younger, he was very nice but very clear and direct in his communication. Came off the streets and was tough. Displayed some RG tendencies in very specific circumstances but we just managed the environment to never create those situations (bones).

It’s interesting to hear how this changes over time too with age, life experiences and circumstances. Thanks for sharing everyone!


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

I am struggling with this one a bit. Especially with the dynamics of a multidog household.

I was also always taught as a child that resource guarding is normal dog behaviour - more of a surprise if the dog doesn't resource guard than if they do! I think because we never took it for granted, it never really developed much in the dogs we had. I have learned more about how to prevent it, but it's still well in the range of unsurprisingly/ expected to me. I basically expect any dog that is not mine to resource guard from me. There is a huge amount of trust involved for a dog to relinquish something valuable to a human.

Annie has never resource guarded from ME but Trixie is a nuisance dog and likes to steal. Mom just laughs "oh how cute! She stole Annie's toy/Kong etc". I worry and try and block her from stealing because I am watching how Annie turns her head and occasionally warns her off with a low growl which Trixie ignores. If Annie choses to snap it will be a big issue! But frankly, if someone came up to me while I was lying down relaxing with a toy, snatched it from me and then ran around the room crowing about it, I might growl or snap too. And then if Trixie has it, Trixie will sometimes snarl over it (other times she tries to get Annie to chase her around the house). So now I often encourage Annie to sit with me on the couch with her toys so Trixie can't get them. Or sit on the ground between her and Trixie and run defense or try and distract Trixie with another game that isn't 'Steal Annie's toy and make her chase me, then growl if she gets too close!"

Annie doesn't resource guard from other dogs at the park, just with Trixie. So I am not really sure how to deal with this. Trixie is a sneak and I don't know how to stop her either.

Because I EXPECTED resource guarding as just default dog behaviour, I did a lot of work with Annie as a puppy trading toys, random garbage outside, etc, for treats, inspecting toys and garbage and handing them back, and holding on to the end of things as she chewed in my lap. We even play fetch with her raw bones! I don't guarantee Annie wouldn't resource guard from someone else, though. 

Lately she does occasionally grumble (not growl, different noise) at Mom when Mom sits on the couch next to her, then hops off. I don't think it is exactly resource guarding - Mom often sits kinda on top of her tail/butt! I would grumble too. I have asked Mom to tell Annie to get off the couch before she sits on it, since grumbling over the couch isn't okay. And... She did it for one day, and now she doesn't bother. I am frustrated. 

I watched someone in the park the other day. He had complimented me on how nicely Annie retrieves. Annie brought and gave him a ball and he proceeded to tease her with it and took a good minute to throw it back. This was the first time she had brought him her ball, and Annie didn't bring the toy to him again - her trust that he would throw it was broken. I can see how that could eventually escalate to resource guarding if he tried to take a toy from her, got it, then didn't return it or teased her with it for a long time. I don't always immediately throw the ball, but we have enough of a relationship of trust for me to get away with it (and usually I am asking for something like a stay, a heel, or a sequence of behaviours so she trusts that when she is done, she gets the reward).

Trixie has resource guarded from me, and mom and Annie. She enjoys it as a game, but is sometimes very serious. Bones and high value chews from me, and toys from Annie - snarling and bluff charges. We had about 6 months where we refused to give her any sort of high value chew. I still won't give her any chew that needs to be taken away, and I feed Annie bones outside so Trixie can't get at them (she will steal them from Annie then resource guard them from all of us), and I leave Annie outside anytime Trixie has a chew. I give Trixie bones only in one particular room where she can't escape without human help so she doesn't start guarding where the bone USED TO be. I have done as ton of work to get her to let me hold them while she chews ( I have a duck wing tip offer it to her, and don't let go but let her chew the end) eventually, since she isn't really HAPPY about that, the moment she releases the bone to me, I drop it and leave the room (big reward). Wouldn't recommend the method to anyone, as there is definitely a risk of a bite. I have also done some work with coming back and giving her a SECOND chew, as me approaching was enough to trigger her at one point. It's gotten a lot better but I don't trust her more than 80%. Also have been working on trading 'toys' for treats.

Life would be a lot easier if I could fit a crate or an ex pen in the house!


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## Ava. (Oct 21, 2020)

The family dog, Zeus will guard his toys. He growls at us when we get near him.. its SCARY because he has a big head, and he weights over 90 pounds. I'm not even sure how to begin training his out of him. I have been trying the "toy switch" to try and get him to let go of one, but he still ends up with another one in his mouth as soon as possible. Rewarding him for not growling also helps, but i'm really not as "on top" as it as I should be, sometimes I feel too overwhemed with my "heart dog" (who is also a family dog) who has sorta become my responsiblitiy that I don't quite have time to work with the other dog.. I do try though. That's something c:

Deacon has never had any issues, never once showed any sort signs of being uncomfortable with me around his food, or toys. He's never been around another dog with his food or toys, but he doesn't mind sharing with the cats.


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## stealthq (Aug 4, 2011)

Kohl was terrible about guarding his food when he was a pup. I’ve had dogs all my life, and one thing that’s been standard is to regularly check that the dog will let me reach into his bowl, get a piece of food and feed it to him without any sign of stress. Did not have to check with Kohl. He seriously went for the cats when they just looked at the full food bowl - the cats that to this day are his boss at any other time. He growled at me if I approached before finishing his food. He is very, very food- and prey-driven.

There was no way I was tolerating that, so for the next couple of months, I hand fed him all of his meals. I taught him ‘leave it’ and ‘take it’ using toys ASAP, then graduated to food. I’m lucky that Kohl is smart. The first time he very reluctantly spit out food when I said ‘leave it’ only to immediately get much more than he gave to ‘take’ as a reward he became 100% reliable on ‘leave it’, LOL. I went back to feeding him like normal and did the usual check. He’d stopped the guarding behavior.

However, I still have him eat in his crate to protect the cats even though he’s not seemed bothered by them since the training. One mistake there and the kitties are seriously injured or dead, so I’m not taking the chance. I‘m not confident that he’d let other familiar people near his food without a reaction either, nor am I interested in testing him. Other people can feed him or take an empty bowl and he’s fine.


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## curlflooffan (Mar 27, 2020)

Spottytoes said:


> This really resonated with me as well. While I’m all about good training, of course, I sometimes feel anxious or frustrated because my dog doesn’t “measure up” or isn’t on the right timeline. I think a lot of dog owners can get like this as we expect more and more from our dogs. I have to talk myself down and remind myself that my dog is a dog and he has his own personality and quirks, just like we humans. It’s a great thing that we are learning more and more and we definitely should train to the best of our ability but sometimes, as my husband tells me.... “he’s just being a dog” and that’s ok.


I don't think I ever completely appreciated the difference between individual dogs before I spent a lot of time with two females, of the same breed, from the same breeder, living and raised by the same person. The difference between those two dogs is like night and day. I swear one of them must have doggy ADHD, its not the energy level per se but the lack of impulse control (I have ADHD myself). I know that the owner has put A LOT more effort and time into increasing the impulse control of that dog.

I know it was very hard on the owner because she was putting more work in that dog than she had with her other and was, as far as she could see, getting a fraction of the results. But as they live far away from us there would often be months between our visits. The difference that I saw from visit to visit was remarkable! There was a lot of progress happening if you compared the dog to how she had been before, rather than comparing her to her sister or to other dogs of easier breeds.

Sometimes the progress is so slow that if you are living with the dog everyday you don't see it as clearly. Especially when you are trying to change behaviour, not teaching obedience. One time when I would visit she would jump on me relentlessly (this was a rodesian ridgeback). But then three months later she would jump 3 times before pausing and think 'wait what was I suppose to do in this situation??' It wasn't perfect, there is still a long way to go, but it was tremendous progress. Very impressive considering that she was still a teenager.

It has really taught me that there is no right timeline for the most part. Of course early intervention is incredibly important but every dog is different and they need to learn things on their own pace.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I should’ve known better, but I was actually starting to believe the resource guarding was behind us. Tonight I got a little reality check.

You may recall this:



PeggyTheParti said:


> Since Peggy's first episode, I've made some mistakes (so many mistakes), but I've also made some progress. When I started to see subtle shades of anxiety around the acquisition and possession of socks, for example, I successfully turned it into a game. Now she's more than happy to trade socks for treats. (A little too happy, if I'm honest.)


So you can imagine my shock when I saw my husband tossing treats down the hall, but Peggy standing frozen like a statue with a pair of my socks in her mouth. Before I could even ask what had happened, I heard an ominous growl. It was triggered just by me stepping out of the kitchen.

I told her to go to her bed, which she did immediately. But when I grabbed some treats to toss, just the slight bend of my body forward triggered another deep growl, socks clenched tightly between her teeth.

This has never happened with socks. This hasn’t happened _period_ for months and months. So what went wrong??

Well....

Peggy has a strong drive to retrieve, but she also enjoys playing keep-away. Lately we’ve been playing games where she trades her ball in for a treat, so before dinner I decided to actively practise this with her beloved wool dryer ball: Toss, retrieve, trade. Toss, retrieve, trade. Toss, retrieve, trade.

After half a dozen enthusiastic repetitions, I noticed her growing reluctance. She wanted the treat, and was willing to drop the ball, but she was trying to put the ball out of reach before she reached for the treat. So I stopped. Shortly afterwards, she stole the socks.

I probed my husband: Did you initially bend over her to take them away? Did you toss treats towards her or away from her? But as I’m trying to understand the events so I can figure out a gameplan, the whole time I’m thinking, “_How_ am I going to manage this around friends? Family members? Dogsitters? Is this really going to be a constant worry for the rest of Peggy’s life?” Even as I’ve got my problem-solving hat on, my stomach’s in knots.

It took me a long time to bond with Peggy, and a big part of our dramatically improved relationship has been the absence of guarding behaviours. Even at her last playdate, when she gave a little growl to a dog who tried to steal something from her, I called her and she instantly dropped the item and ran to me, all anxiety forgotten. I was overjoyed and the other humans present were amazed by her recall. Enough moments like that and it’s easy to forget Peggy still has a very real RG issue.

Probably, too, I’ve slacked on trading. Lately, if I’ve dropped a pair of socks while putting away laundry, instead of treating it as an opportunity to reinforce Peggy’s newly easygoing attitude around them, I was just picking the socks up from underneath her nose.

I’m rambling now. I just hate this. Intellectually I know resource guarding is normal dog stuff. But my heart doesn’t quite get it. In my silly human way, I feel....betrayed? And I’m also so scared it will someday escalate.

Thanks as always for the place to vent.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

That is truly not fun. At all. I don’t know what I would do in your shoes but I would be besides myself. In my opinion, you’ve gone wayyyyyy beyond what the average owner can do in such a situation. 

There is a real risk here and I know you’re well aware of it. If she was a toy, okay. But a standard has a lot of power. Time to get serious professional help ! People ask for consults for a lot more trivial stuff. Get the burden off your shoulders. That’s what I would do.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Isn't Peggy also in heat right now? A bit more temperamental and sensitive than usual? Didnt you have issues with resource guarding on one of the other heats, too? 

Not excusing it, just wondering if that may be a factor.

I live with a resource guarder too - Trixie. I really do have to be careful and conscious, and yeah, it's a forever thing to be watchful for, even though things have really improved and I have worked a lot with her.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Isn't Peggy also in heat right now? A bit more temperamental and sensitive than usual? Didnt you have issues with resource guarding on one of the other heats, too?
> 
> Not excusing it, just wondering if that may be a factor.
> 
> I live with a resource guarder too - Trixie. I really do have to be careful and conscious, and yeah, it's a forever thing to be watchful for, even though things have really improved and I have worked a lot with her.


Yep, she’s about two weeks into her third heat. I did consider that might be a factor, but she’s been so docile this time around. Just an absolute dream.

I wish I could see how the scenario actually started with my husband. Almost every resource guarding episode I’ve experienced with her began with an interaction with him. I’m not saying he’s doing anything wrong. But it’s clearly a piece of the puzzle.

It’s frustrating because we can work through the standard RG protocols with no issue. I’m willing to keep working on it, but we have to work smarter not harder. I’ll take your advice, @Dechi, and ask our trainer for a referral to a behaviourist. We don’t have any around here, and travelling’s not an option with covid, but maybe they’ll consult remotely.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I just watched my husband put Peggy’s diaper on her—how she stood so politely and stands so politely for multiple changes each day. I think about all the tricks she knows, how she’s a masterful cuddler and how she walked so beautifully today, she literally stopped traffic...more than once! And it struck me just how complex our dog friends can be.

I sent emails to a couple of board-certified animal behaviourists, but I need to let go of my desire for perfection. Tonight was a setback. Tomorrow will probably be better. Onward.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

One more update for the night, because this whole thing is just so baffling to me:

I decided to see if I could rapidly lower the value of socks. I have a pair I was about to toss because they have holes in the heels, so I knotted them together, dropped them on the floor, and my husband and I sat down to watch a movie. As expected, she swiftly snatched them up and retreated behind the couch.

“Don’t make eye contact,” I said. “Don’t even look at her.”

Mere seconds layer, she came skipping out from behind the couch and tossed the socks in the air. As we continued to ignore her, she hopped up onto the couch, curled up, and put the socks on my leg_. _And that was that. As I type this, she’s curled up against me, snoozing.

Does this even sound like normal resource guarding? Or could it be something else?

I went back through my notes and the last time she growled while guarding something was two weeks after her last heat, when we were cooped up in the middle of all that awful wildfire smoke. I walked away and—moments later—she brought me the item in the _exact_ same way she did tonight. Placed it right in my lap and everything.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I didn’t realize she was in heat, I thought she was closed to being spayed. Being in heat might be a trigger in my opinion. You know what crazy hormones can do to person or animal...

The test you did with ignoring her is very smart. It showed that paying no attention to her extinguishes the behavior. It doesn’t fix it but it helps. If she was ever only in contact with you two, it wouldn’t be so bad. The problem is that you can’t expect other people to know what to do, especially children.

That’s quite the challenge you have on your hands and I admire your tenacity.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

I'm assuming you've already gone through Jean Donaldson's book Mine!, right?
And does your husband work through some of the protocols too?
About her heat, I know you say she has been so cuddly and loving this time around, but keep in mind that just because the hormone fluctuations are causing mainly positive (to you 😉) effects, they are still changing her behaviour and therefore it's quite possible this is part of it.
My last female was barely affected by her heat cycles, but my current female is VERY hormonal. Last heat cycle, she tried to take over Raffi's crate, showed some mild RG signs (stiff body). I had to close the crate when it was not in use to prevent her. I think it's related to nesting behaviour. Maybe the sock/item thing is too.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> I didn’t realize she was in heat, I thought she was closed to being spayed. Being in heat might be a trigger in my opinion. You know what crazy hormones can do to person or animal...
> 
> The test you did with ignoring her is very smart. It showed that paying no attention to her extinguishes the behavior. It doesn’t fix it but it helps. If she was ever only in contact with you two, it wouldn’t be so bad. The problem is that you can’t expect other people to know what to do, especially children.
> 
> That’s quite the challenge you have on your hands and I admire your tenacity.


Thanks, @Dechi 

Yep, she’s in heat. Her spay surgery is scheduled for May. I’m just a bit of a planner when it comes to this stuff. Because of her early behaviour issues, the trauma of spay and subsequent hormonal changes really worry me.

I do feel she’s in the perfect home with just the two of us. She had a rough start with kids, so unfortunately I don’t think I could ever fully trust her alone with one even though she’s very interested in them now and loves to soak up their love. I think those early experiences leave such a mark.

It’s sad. I never imagined having a dog I couldn’t trust with everyone. And it’s confusing when she’s fine 99.9% of the time. Our trainer actually tried to recreate a resource guarding episode with her and couldn’t.

And here’s what’s been going on as I type this...










I tied some more socks together and left them in the hall as though I’d dropped them. I heard her steal them, but she immediately brought them to me.

Then:










And now:


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Starvt said:


> I'm assuming you've already gone through Jean Donaldson's book Mine!, right?
> And does your husband work through some of the protocols too?
> About her heat, I know you say she has been so cuddly and loving this time around, but keep in mind that just because the hormone fluctuations are causing mainly positive (to you 😉) effects, they are still changing her behaviour and therefore it's quite possible this is part of it.
> My last female was barely affected by her heat cycles, but my current female is VERY hormonal. Last heat cycle, she tried to take over Raffi's crate, showed some mild RG signs (stiff body). I had to close the crate when it was not in use to prevent her. I think it's related to nesting behaviour. Maybe the sock/item thing is too.


This is such an excellent point. She’s definitely been a different dog—_extremely_ sleepy and docile—and I never stopped to think that maybe what she’s feeling isn’t entirely pleasant....much as we’re enjoying it. She’s also missed out on two weeks of playdates because she’s in heat. She adapts so readily to changes in her routine, it’s easy to forget they’re still stressors and they can pile up.

I enjoyed _Mine! _but Peggy does fine with all the training protocols. She’s had only a handful of RG episodes in the year and a half that we’ve had her, but maybe that’s because I quickly shifted us into management mode?

My husband definitely does his part with training, but he’s more likely to inadvertently escalate the situation because he’s still learning to read her body language.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I had a great consultation tonight with a behaviourist. She works full-time at a shelter and is offering very reasonably priced personalized plans and remote sessions during the pandemic. The “covid puppy” epidemic of under-socialization is real and she’s on the front lines. 

Anyway, she was a pleasure to speak with and wholly understands the challenges of owning a VSD (very smart dog lol). She asked loads of questions, gave an initial assessment, and we will be meeting Monday via Zoom for our first 30-60 minute session.

She can’t offer any guarantees, of course, but based on Peggy’s history, she doesn’t feel her resource guarding episodes are likely to get worse or “spread” (i.e. generalize) the way this issue can. It sounds like her hardest cases are the ones in which owners have already tried to address resource guarding themselves through aversive methods and/or suppressing the growl response.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

That sounds very positive - and it must feel very reassuring to know you did the right thing back in the early days. It will be interesting to learn from your experiences over the coming months.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> That sounds very positive - and it must feel very reassuring to know you did the right thing back in the early days. It will be interesting to learn from your experiences over the coming months.


It was definitely reassuring. I’ll admit to having a few moments over the past year where I worried I was “letting” her resource guard, knowing full well that’s not how it actually works. In fact, I should feel very pleased that our Dunbar approach to feeding has at least given us a dog who is delighted to have her food bowl approached.

I look forward to finding out what our next steps are. My husband will be participating in the session, which is good.


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

Susanne Clothier is doing a webinar on resource guarding on March 25. She is an excellent trainer, I have been to several seminars with her. Can't recommend her enough, she truly understands and uses the relationship between people and dogs to solve problems. She wrote "Bones Would Rain from the Sky: Deepening our Relationships with Dogs", which is an excellent book.



https://register.gotowebinar.com/register/8466230050597992973?source=MailChimp&mc_cid=d73fc9453b&mc_eid=3b2a21705d


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

As part of my homework for the behaviourist, I compiled a list of the six times Peggy has guarded something with a growl. My memory’s pretty good, but to be safe I dug back through my posts on Poodle Forum for a refresher.

And you know what?

*YOU ARE ALL SO WONDERFUL.*

So much excellent advice. So much patience. So much _kindness_. And always a little bit of much-needed laughter. Big hugs from Peggy and me.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

3/4 of a million posts, sounds like someone here got one right. Good job y'all!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Tomorrow is our first session (it was delayed by a week) and I just received our personalized training plan. It’s divided into two parts and the first is absolutely something we need to work on and work on slowwwwwly. This can be problematic in a multi-person household, so I’m happy we’ll have some structure.

The second focuses on trading games, which I’ve put a lot of emphasis on in the past, to the extent that it’s maybe actually increased Peggy’s anxiety around resources.

For example, if I’m asking for her tennis ball in exchange for a treat or other toy, she’ll happily trade the first few times. Then she’ll start dropping the tennis ball a little further from me, putting her foot in front of it to gently shield it (still letting me take it, but with growing trepidation). Then eventually she makes it clear she’s done. This is what we were doing shortly before her last resource guarding episode, and I can’t help but think that I triggered it by cranking up her cortisol levels.

Do I explain this to the behaviourist? Or is it going to seem like I’m being difficult/questioning her expertise?

If I’m completely honest, some of the most dog savvy people I know don’t really seem to _get_ poodles. But I found a blog post last night, by one of my favourite online trainers, and I think this part especially really nails my experience with trading:

_“If my dog for example is chewing on a shoe that I want to exchange for a more appropriate chew toy, I would not hand him the chew toy and as soon as he looks at it, opens his mouth and lets go of the shoe I snatch the shoe away. Movement attracts dogs – chances are that the moment I swiftly remove the shoe his attention is captured by that motion and he wants the shoe back. If I try to win by being speedy this may work now, but he will learn for the next time to hold on better and be more observant – unfortunately we will have a hard time ever winning against our dogs in speediness._









Tips For Preventing Resource Guarding in Dogs


Does your dog guard resources? Does your puppy growl at you when he has a bone? Let's address this resource guarding habit safely!




spiritdogtraining.com


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## Ava. (Oct 21, 2020)

I think that being transparent to your trainer and letting her know about all your questions and concerns is very important. Your concerns are valid, and something a good trainer (and a good person, nonetheless) should take into consideration.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Thanks, @Ava. That’s what I needed to hear.

I know I’ve made mistakes along the way with this issue, but I’ve also learned a lot. The more information I can give her, the more effective I hope this process will be.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Tomorrow is our first session (it was delayed by a week) and I just received our personalized training plan. It’s divided into two parts and the first is absolutely something we need to work on and work on slowwwwwly. This can be problematic in a multi-person household, so I’m happy we’ll have some structure.
> 
> The second focuses on trading games, which I’ve put a lot of emphasis on in the past, to the extent that it’s maybe actually increased Peggy’s anxiety around resources.
> 
> ...


Your concern makes sense to me! Would more times in a day but fewer reps work ? 

For example - when I was dealing with Annie and seperation anxiety - a different stress based behaviour. I couldn't drill it. If I, say, went 5 times to the door repeatedly in a row, by the 5th she was not cool with it. But, if I went to the door, casually passed by it, then an hour later did it again, then a couple more times through the day... By the 5th rep maybe she wasn't reacting at all. 

With recalls - I find I have the best, snappiest recalls if I call only once or twice with many minutes between them. Annie and I almost didn't pass a class we took because they had us practice recall before the 'test' and by the 5th time, which was the test, she was like 'weee!!!! Time to run!" Recalls have some inherent stress because I am asking the dog to stop what they are doing - less is more. 

Does that make sense in the context of trading games?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

To me you don’t sound like your questioning her ways at all. I think not telling her this will keep her from adjusting (or not) her method according to the dog she is dealing with. The more you tell her, in my opinion, the better. Even very subtle behaviors description might help her understand Peggy better.

Don’t doubt yourself, you have a level of knowledge and understanding of dogs above the average owner. Do not underplay it.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Your concern makes sense to me! Would more times in a day but fewer reps work ?
> 
> For example - when I was dealing with Annie and seperation anxiety - a different stress based behaviour. I couldn't drill it. If I, say, went 5 times to the door repeatedly in a row, by the 5th she was not cool with it. But, if I went to the door, casually passed by it, then an hour later did it again, then a couple more times through the day... By the 5th rep maybe she wasn't reacting at all.
> 
> ...


Yep! This sounds like a perfect way to practise trades without muddying the exercise with the stress of repetition. Thank you!

Interestingly, the one scenario in which she loves both trading _and_ repetition is when we play “Find It.” She’ll play forever, trading or even just dropping the item, and has never once attempted to shield it from me. Hmmmmmm. That’s actually rather odd. Could it be because I’m the only one who plays this with her and not my husband?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> To me you don’t sound like your questioning her ways at all. I think not telling her this will keep her from adjusting (or not) her method according to the dog she is dealing with. The more you tell her, in my opinion, the better. Even very subtle behaviors description might help her understand Peggy better.
> 
> Don’t doubt yourself, you have a level of knowledge and understanding of dogs above the average owner. Do not underplay it.


Thanks for the encouragement, @Dechi.  I just want to strike the right balance between learning from my observations and being open to seeing the situation from a fresh perspective.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

A fabulous session! The behaviourist was a great listener and able to think on her feet, adapting our training plan as she learned more. My husband joined us and is enthusiastically onboard.

We’ll be checking in weekly, but she also wants us to reach out any time with questions or videos.

I feel very lucky to have found her, and possibly wouldn’t have if not for covid, as I would have been reluctant to stray beyond Washington. (She’s located in Oregon.)

If anyone’s thinking of getting some professional help, but feels constrained by geography, don’t. Remote options are plentiful right now, and perfectly adequate for working through resource guarding protocols.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

That's really good to hear - and especially that something so positive has come out of the pandemic. If good Behaviourists become adept at working remotely it will be a boon for many people.


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## Charlie's Person (Dec 9, 2018)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Thanks, @Dechi
> 
> Yep, she’s in heat. Her spay surgery is scheduled for May. I’m just a bit of a planner when it comes to this stuff. Because of her early behaviour issues, the trauma of spay and subsequent hormonal changes really worry me.
> 
> ...


Really appreciate your posts. Lots of issues I have never encountered and I learn about new behaviors. 

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> That's really good to hear - and especially that something so positive has come out of the pandemic. If good Behaviourists become adept at working remotely it will be a boon for many people.


Agreed. The dynamic of a Zoom call is so different from in-person. Definitely requires some deft communication skills.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Charlie's Person said:


> Really appreciate your posts. Lots of issues I have never encountered and I learn about new behaviors.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


I’m glad you’re learning something from my experience. I hope others are, too.

Not saying this is the case with Charlie, but almost all dogs will show signs of resource guarding at some point. It’s _extremely_ normal. It can be as subtle as a turned shoulder or even “funny” like faster chewing. It can also quickly turn into a medical emergency, like when they decide gulping found items is the best way to hold onto them.

As I learned from yesterday’s session with the behaviourist, I’ve been remiss in claiming my last girl never resource guarded. She absolutely did. But it never escalated beyond early warning signals, possibly because she never had anything snatched from her during those impressionable first months like Peggy did. In fact, I can recall forcibly taking something from her only once—a chicken wing she found at the beach. But by then she was approaching her senior years. We knew each other pretty well.


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## Charlie's Person (Dec 9, 2018)

You are right! While Charlie allows our 2 1/2 year old grandson to climb all over him, take food and toys right out of his mouth, there have been other problems. Charlie gulped down a J Cloth that I demanded he surrender, a sponge and a couple of other awful items.









Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

This was a fun one today. 

I was sitting on the toilet—Peggy keeping me company as she does for most bathroom visits—when she noticed a brand new tube of toothpaste, still in the box, sitting on the bathroom counter. I have _no idea_ what she was thinking, but she grabbed it, brought it over, and dropped it at my feet. I assumed she wanted me to take it, so I wasn’t especially concerned as I leaned forward, but then I saw her stiffen: No growl, but clearly defensive posture.

So what was the “fun” part? With Peggy and her precious toothpaste between me and the door, _I was trapped in the bathroom! _

We’re supposed to be doing everything we can to prevent escalation while we work through the behaviourist’s RG protocol. But the bathroom is only four feet wide. How was I supposed to get out of there without making her think I wanted her treasure?

I had to CALL MY HUSBAND FOR HELP. Yep. I literally shouted for him, because my darn POODLE was blocking me with a tube of toothpaste.

Sigh.

He came running (good to know I can count on him in an emergency), and as soon as he opened the door, I said, “Call Peggy out NOW.” But of course she was already happily trotting after him, toothpaste forgotten.

Now I’m wondering if she was even guarding it at all or if my caution is tipping over into paranoia.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think better safe than sorry - if she was not thinking of guarding then no harm done, if she was then situation avoided.

I know many people who yell to be rescued from spiders between them and the door, but you are the first to need o be rescued from toothpaste!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> I think better safe than sorry - if she was not thinking of guarding then no harm done, if she was then situation avoided.
> 
> I know many people who yell to be rescued from spiders between them and the door, but you are the first to need o be rescued from toothpaste!


Haha! I’m also one of those folks who must regularly be rescued from spiders. Luckily, Peggy takes hunting them quite seriously. I’m just a little worried one day she’ll proudly deposit one on my knee.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I spent the night dreaming of three poodle puppies. Even when I’d wake up, I’d go right back to my poodle dream. I was trying to choose one of the three for myself. My sister was being given second choice. My husband ended up with the third.

I am feeling positively _tortured_ today by this dream. It won’t let me go.

I really believe we should be getting on a waitlist for a puppy, but I’m worried that it’s a bad idea with a dog who already resource guards. It might be perfectly manageable or....my poodle dream could quickly become a nightmare.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I’m glad you like the behaviorist you found. I wonder what she’ll think of the toothpaste episode ?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> I’m glad you like the behaviorist you found. I wonder what she’ll think of the toothpaste episode ?


She’ll likely say what @fjm said: Better safe than sorry.

But the more I think about it, the fact that she instantly lost interest in the toothpaste when my husband opened the door suggests to me she wasn’t actually guarding it. If she was, I think being cornered by his sudden presence in the doorway would’ve surged her adrenaline even higher.

I probably need to chill out a bit.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Just here to vent a little, as I find this whole resource guarding thing exhausting. Note: I hope no one feels like they actually have to read all this.

Tonight the toy at the end of Peggy’s flirt pole suddenly split open and a plastic piece went flying out. Peggy did her automatic leave-it, which was great. I rewarded her with some yummy treats and then examined the toy, trying to figure out why the heck it had something so dangerous inside. As I’m doing that—argh—a second plastic piece falls out. This time Peggy couldn’t control her curiosity and reached for it. I knew it was potentially dangerous and so quickly grabbed it away, practically out of her mouth.

(Yes, this is very unfortunate, but...life happens. In those moments you have to weigh the risks.)

I initiated play by animating and then tossing some treats, and she seemed to forget all about the toy, but I knew she was now a ticking time bomb. Sure enough, I dropped a dirty sock while doing laundry (which, thankfully, already had a hole in it) and she snatched it before I even realized she was watching.

So here’s where things get exhausting: I have _no_ _idea_ if she was guarding the sock or just playing with it/enjoying carrying it around. As I’ve mentioned, during this counter-conditioning process, to avoid triggering guarding, we’re not supposed to step towards her if she has a high-value item or try to take it from her (unless it’s dangerous, of course). *But if we avoid triggering her guarding behaviour, we don’t actually know if she is guarding the item! *Does that make sense? Makes my brain twist into a big ol’ pretzel.

So all night she had the stupid sock. She’d toss it around a bit, chew it on her bed, bring it over to the couch and abandon it right next to me. And the whole time I had to pretend I didn’t care that apparently my dog now controls whatever item she wishes. <—Yes, that’s my ego speaking.

I’m so glad we are working with a behaviourist, as otherwise I would be tempted to just throw everything I know out the window and make the whole thing worse by showing force/snatching these sorts of things away.

On that note, if you’ve read this far, _please_ don’t listen to anyone who tells you to take things from your dog because you “should” be able to and that your dog “should” be okay with that. I treated Peggy like my previous dogs, assuming she’d respond like my previous dogs. And she did....at first.....until she didn’t. You may get lucky with ten dogs in a row, and—like me—be tempted to believe it’s because of your superior leadership skills (lol), but then the 11th dog comes along with that guarding seed buried way down deep, and now you’re obliviously dumping fertilizer on it.

Let’s just say I’d love to go back in time to that very first scrunchie theft and handle it _completely_ differently. Live and learn.

RIP cozy brown sock.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I‘ve been doing the behaviourist’s resource guarding protocol for a couple of weeks now. It’s been going well, but in the back of my mind I knew that eventually a real-life guarding episode would happen and could potentially set us back. Well, that real-life episode happened tonight when a piece of a stuffed toy suddenly ripped off during play and Peggy got that gleam in her eye.

I knew I had to play it cool so she wouldn’t swallow it. I walked to the kitchen, chatting about rotisserie chicken, and she followed me in, carrying the toy. That she followed me was a good sign.

Still babbling about chicken, I grabbed a piece, turned back towards her, and as _soon_ as she saw the chicken in my hand, she frantically gulped the toy down.

_Note: This toy is attached to a flirt pole. It’s one I’ve used for the past year as part of our drop-it and leave-it practise. She’s never guarded it from me. She’s never even tried playing keep-away. If I take too long to ask for it back, she pushes it into my hand so I’ll make it “fly” again._

The problem was the abrupt shift in energy that occurred when it ripped. There is literally no way I can hide my desperation from her in those moments. She can feel the mood change. She can see right past my faux calm. I have _no_ idea how to fix that.

So now she’s got a big hunk of fabric working its way through her digestive system. If we’re lucky, she’ll poop it out or at least vomit it up. If not....well, I’m not letting myself think about that right now.

Just two hours ago, we were walking past the loud, smelly automotive department at Costco. There were people rattling massive carts past us. Children skipped by. Cars pulled in and out of the lot. Dirty masks and other tantalizing treasures littered the ground. She was, in every way, a perfect dog. I could feel eyes on us. I’m sure more than a few people wondered, “How do I get my dog to behave like that?” And then we come home to this.

Resource guarding is so uniquely dispiriting.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Oh, and afterwards my husband said, “We need a better solution. We can’t just let her swallow things.”

No offence to him, but I inwardly screamed. That’s _exactly_ why we’re working with a behaviourist—so we can get things back that might pose a danger to her, without using force and risking our own safety.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I‘ve been doing the behaviourist’s resource guarding protocol for a couple of weeks now. It’s been going well, but in the back of my mind I knew that eventually a real-life guarding episode would happen and could potentially set us back. Well, that real-life episode happened tonight when a piece of a stuffed toy suddenly ripped off during play and Peggy got that gleam in her eye.
> 
> I knew I had to play it cool so she wouldn’t swallow it. I walked to the kitchen, chatting about rotisserie chicken, and she followed me in, carrying the toy. That she followed me was a good sign.
> 
> ...


Oh no! I hope she's going to be OK. Just fabric, no sharp anything I hope!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Oh no! I hope she's going to be OK. Just fabric, no sharp anything I hope!


No sharp anything, thankfully. Not even any stuffing. Just a fluffy scrap of fabric.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

A fluffy scrap sounds reasonably safe - nothing sharp, no long threads to tangle and contract. Here's hoping it goes through quickly.

I wonder if singing would help? There is something about chanting that keeps voice and breathing steady - perhaps add a silly song about swapping stuf for chicken into your practice sessions, until it becomes second nature? I have been amazed at how the Flappy Flappy Bang Bang song calms the dogs when the window cleaner visits, and am now trying out a Tickle Toes chant with the aim of eventually being able to trim Sophy's nails without a screaming fit.


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

Urgh I feel your pain with resource guarding. Years ago I adopted a 10 week old border collie mix puppy and she came with so many problems. One of them was resource guarding. I was a dog trainer at the time and knew how to go about training positively so she didn't do it anymore. But it was quite the experience to have your new puppy growl and snap when trying to take something away (especially when you are quite aware how abnormal it is for such a young puppy to do that behavior). I was like "Welp we've got a lot of work to do pup"

Keep up the good work... There is going to be set backs. But you'll get there... Baby steps and one day you'll realize that you haven't had a guarding instance in months and you'll be in aw of it.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> A fluffy scrap sounds reasonably safe - nothing sharp, no long threads to tangle and contract. Here's hoping it goes through quickly.
> 
> I wonder if singing would help? There is something about chanting that keeps voice and breathing steady - perhaps add a silly song about swapping stuf for chicken into your practice sessions, until it becomes second nature? I have been amazed at how the Flappy Flappy Bang Bang song calms the dogs when the window cleaner visits, and am now trying out a Tickle Toes chant with the aim of eventually being able to trim Sophy's nails without a screaming fit.


That’s a really good idea! Your “Flappy” song already inspired a song of mine, actually, which I used when Peggy was a puppy and the landscapers were working outside the windows. It was very effective, possibly because I am a terrible singer and she wanted to know what was wrong with the poor, obviously ailing human.

I did realize last night that almost every time I’ve needed to get something from her, I follow the same routine—the abrupt walk to the fridge, etc. She knows what’s about to happen and she has mixed feelings about it. So I guess you could say that routine has been poisoned?

I’ll start working on a new routine that she will come to associate with nothing but joy.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Sophy actually asked for a Tickle Toes session this evening! We are still a long way from nail trimming, but from screaming "_Don't touch my toes!"_ to asking for more neck and toe rubs feels like major progress in just a few days. The difficult part is making myself go slowly - I know it works, I know forcing the pace is completely counterproductive, but I feel an overlong nail and think how much more comfortable she would be if it were a few millimetres shorter...

New routines that mean nothing but joy - that is a truly excellent aim.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> Sophy actually asked for a Tickle Toes session this evening! We are still a long way from nail trimming, but from screaming "_Don't touch my toes!"_ to asking for more neck and toe rubs feels like major progress in just a few days. The difficult part is making myself go slowly - I know it works, I know forcing the pace is completely counterproductive, but I feel an overlong nail and think how much more comfortable she would be if it were a few millimetres shorter...
> 
> New routines that mean nothing but joy - that is a truly excellent aim.


That is great news! And I know what you mean about how hard it can be to go slowly. I’ve found it helpful to track my methods and progress on paper, writing little updates after each session.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

naybaloog said:


> Urgh I feel your pain with resource guarding. Years ago I adopted a 10 week old border collie mix puppy and she came with so many problems. One of them was resource guarding. I was a dog trainer at the time and knew how to go about training positively so she didn't do it anymore. But it was quite the experience to have your new puppy growl and snap when trying to take something away (especially when you are quite aware how abnormal it is for such a young puppy to do that behavior). I was like "Welp we've got a lot of work to do pup"
> 
> Keep up the good work... There is going to be set backs. But you'll get there... Baby steps and one day you'll realize that you haven't had a guarding instance in months and you'll be in aw of it.


Thank you! And good for you for sticking with that puppy. Sounds like she landed in the right home. 

Peggy’s first episode didn’t occur until adolescence, which makes me think it was mostly our fault. But there’s really no way to know.

Her episodes are so infrequent, I’m not sure we’ll know when celebration is warranted. I’m hoping the very methodical exercises we’re doing, under our behaviourist’s guidance, will eventually show us that we are in fact making progress.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Hooray! The toy appeared this morning in a 7am bout of vomiting. Peggy carefully carried it out of her crate and then left it on the floor. My husband, vividly recalling one of her first guarding episodes (a vomited up hair scrunchie), made the executive decision to leave the toy undisturbed and carry on with their morning. Peggy showed zero inclination to guard it or even engage with it beyond a passing sniff. It’s now in the trash.

I think this absolutely qualifies as progress, for him _and_ her.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I don't know which of them to congratulate most! Bet it was you who eventually cleaned it all up, though!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> I don't know which of them to congratulate most! Bet it was you who eventually cleaned it all up, though!


Lol! I did. But my husband is typically a much better housekeeper than me. I’ll never forget him refolding a basket of my freshly laundered clothes when we were still dating.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Something really interesting happened today. Peggy was playing with her dog friends when she stumbled upon an old plush toy with all the stuffing removed. It was perfectly mouth-sized. Oh noooo. A Peggy delicacy.

She immediately picked it up and started glancing back and forth, willing the other dogs to stay away. I explained to our friends, one of whom is our trainer (although classes have been on hiatus for almost a year now), that this is the exact type of item Peggy will guard by gulping it down.

So what happened next? Our trainer called Peggy over.

“Here we go...” I thought.

Peggy trotted over to her, dropped the toy at her feet, and sat neatly for a treat. Our trainer calmly placed her foot over the toy, gave Peggy a treat, and Peggy trotted away to play. The end.

WHAT THE HECK???


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

Eh don't be too weirded out by it. There's a different learning history and dynamic between dog and trainer and dog and parents.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

naybaloog said:


> Eh don't be too weirded out by it. There's a different learning history and dynamic between dog and trainer and dog and parents.


If anything, I suppose it should give me hope.


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

Right! She has the skills in her, she just has to apply it with everyone and in all settings!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Peggy trotted over to her, dropped the toy at her feet, and sat neatly for a treat. Our trainer calmly placed her foot over the toy, gave Peggy a treat, and Peggy trotted away to play. The end.
> 
> WHAT THE HECK???


I’m not surprised. Peggy senses your anxiety and reacts according to it. Your trainer had a calm energy, no fear, no anxiety. 

What you are going through is so frustrating and I really command you for the way you’ve been dealing with it. I don’t think I would be capable of it. Or maybe so, if I was in the middle of it and had no choice.

It reminds me a bit of the few times Merlin bit me because I was exasperated with him and my anxiety was showing. I knew the more frustrated I became, the more fearful he would be and the more likely I was to get bitten. I quickly learned not to handle him when I was in that state and that solved the problem. But in your case, you can’t do that because it could be a risk for Peggy’s health if you don’t intervene. So it’s very complex, mainly because your anxiety is in the way. 

I’m sure you’ve thought about it but what about a spraying collar or other type of immediate negative consequence ?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> I’m not surprised. Peggy senses your anxiety and reacts according to it. Your trainer had a calm energy, no fear, no anxiety.
> 
> What you are going through is so frustrating and I really command you for the way you’ve been dealing with it. I don’t think I would be capable of it. Or maybe so, if I was in the middle of it and had no choice.
> 
> ...


Yes, there’s definitely anxiety around it now, but the first time it happened with me there wasn’t. I just reached for a clump of grass and my poodle turned into Cujo. It was a shock.

That said, I’m the one who chased her like a lunatic when she stole things as a puppy. I made some _big_ mistakes. My husband, too. Our trainer has never done that. They don’t have that same history.

We—it pains me to say—absolutely earned Peggy’s distrust and now we’re trying to mend that.

And no, we will not be punishing her for guarding. That’s one of the first things our behaviourist had to question us about, because it can make guarding so much worse. The last thing we want to do is escalate it.


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

Yeah don't punish guarding. The humane society switched to a positive method and now work on positive reinforcement methods that gain trust and have a specific protocol for it. They've seen the percent of dogs rehabbed through the protocol something like 93% (not sure of actual numbers I can't find the study). 

I also don't think it's really the anxiety that you have about guarding thats causing guarding. AND personal opinion, I think it was a little bit rude of the trainer to show off like that with your dog.
1. It was risky
2. If it worked, it only served to make you feel bad

But seriously, don't take it personally. Like you said it's a different dynamic between you and you dog and the trainer and your dog. Your dog has a different history with your trainer than you. You are a wonderful dog mom whose doing the best they can. Good on you for getting a behaviorist.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

naybaloog said:


> Yeah don't punish guarding. The humane society switched to a positive method and now work on positive reinforcement methods that gain trust and have a specific protocol for it. They've seen the percent of dogs rehabbed through the protocol something like 93% (not sure of actual numbers I can't find the study).
> 
> I also don't think it's really the anxiety that you have about guarding thats causing guarding. AND personal opinion, I think it was a little bit rude of the trainer to show off like that with your dog.
> 1. It was risky
> ...


I really appreciate your insights! Thank you. 

And our trainer has become a dear friend. So no ill feelings there at all. This was a social setting and she was just helping us to prevent a dangerous resource-gulping situation. But she’s also never actually seen Peggy guard from a human and was probably interested in seeing how she’d react. (Beautifully, apparently! Ha!)


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

(I should also add that she can read dogs in a way I can only dream of. She was probably letting Peggy lead in that situation, setting her up for success.)


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

Sounds like you have a great trainer!!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

naybaloog said:


> Sounds like you have a great trainer!!


She’s wonderful. Too bad our classes have been shut down for almost a year now.  When possible, she’s done a few puppy sessions. And I think she’s helping people with severe cases. But day-to-day training has been largely unavailable around here.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> She’s wonderful. Too bad our classes have been shut down for almost a year now.  When possible, she’s done a few puppy sessions. And I think she’s helping people with severe cases. But day-to-day training has been largely unavailable around here.


Where are you from?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Where are you from?


We’re in Washington state. Some trainers have shut down altogether. Others switched to remote teaching and consultation. Some, like ours, have adapted—rolling with each new set of requirements, opening and closing as mandated, etc.—but it’s exhausting. I don’t blame anyone for triaging the needs of their human and canine students.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Well I guess I won't be running into you anytime soon being 3000 miles away!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Well I guess I won't be running into you anytime soon being 3000 miles away!


Well, I’m originally from 3,000 miles away.  Toronto, Canada. I don’t make my way back there nearly as often as I’d like. Hoping to change that post-covid.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Really lovely Peggy moment today, but maybe a stupid human moment? She was lounging on the ottoman and I went over to say hi. I noticed she was holding something in her mouth, and—_without even thinking_—I tucked my fingers inside and pulled out a small piece of packing tape. Realizing what I’d done, I fluttered it around a bit, turning my “rude” behaviour into a game, and then walked away.

When I came back, the tape was just sitting on the ottoman next to her. I picked it up again, played with her a little, and then she batted it onto the floor and curled up for a snooze.










I don’t know why she didn’t guard this treasure from me. I wish I could see the nuances of these moments through her eyes.

The other day I left her snoozing on the bathroom floor while I took a shower, only to realize I’d accidentally dropped a sock next to her. For 15 minutes she’d been ignoring that sock, and when I reached for it, she didn’t even bat an eye.

Is the resource guarding protocol working? Is she simply growing up? Or are these situations somehow less emotionally charged for her?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Today I heard a banging sound while I was making dinner. I ignored it for a while, thinking my husband was throwing a ball for Peggy. But nope. She somehow had gotten her mouth on a new _hardcover book _and was flipping it in the air and watching it hit the ground, over and over and over again.

I had to get quite close to see what it was. It was a very strange sight, and my brain couldn’t quite understand what was going on at first.

So what did she do as I approached?

She looked up eagerly and stepped away from the book. 😭

This is exactly the response that our current RG protocol is intended to foster—a dog who looks up from a treasure with anticipation rather than anxiety.

Just doing a little happy dance over here.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Today I was sitting on the toilet (lol) when Peggy pushed the door open dramatically and delivered this to me:










It’s the shopping list I accidentally left on the couch where she was snoozing. Let me just say: I am _so impressed _by her newfound commitment to relinquishing treasures.

If anyone else is struggling with a possessive poodle, I highly recommend—first and foremost—getting good professional help. But also I came up with my own little exercise that seems to have really clicked in Peggy’s mind:

Whenever she drops a treasure for me—either voluntarily or because I’ve asked her to—I reach down and place a treat on it.

And then I walk away.

Nine times out of ten, I have no reason to take it from her. So I don’t. That’s the key. That’s why she increasingly feels optimism/anticipation when I reach towards an item of value, rather than defensiveness or anxiety.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

*Update:*

It’s hard to believe Peggy was ever a resource guarder.

Who knows—maybe it’ll happen again at some point. I definitely don’t want to get complacent. Preventing resource guarding should be a lifelong effort with any dog.

But the transformation has been an incredible thing to behold.

For us, I believe the turning point was when Peggy had stolen something silly and I heard my husband tell her, “_I know that is the most important thing in the world to you right now. Don’t worry. I’m not going to take it.”_

That shift in understanding—that promise of trust—is at the heart of all the progress we’ve made.

And no, it doesn’t mean that Peggy can have whatever she wants, whenever she wants it. It just means she doesn’t go into a state of primal fear when she finds herself in possession of a treasure.

She is happier. We are happier. And I continue to play the “Put a treat on the treasure” game every chance I get, so that old anxiety doesn’t bubble back up.

I’ve yet to push our luck with anything like a raw bone. But maybe at some point I’ll give it a try. If it’s worth it for her health, it’s worth the effort to try and make it work.


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## Tulsi (Jun 8, 2021)

What a beautiful thread. Put the treat on the treasure sounds such a great idea. None of mine seem to rg but Rusty poodle pup will always take Jojo labrador's toy away from her, just as Tass collie (used to do). 

Want to work on that one.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Tulsi said:


> What a beautiful thread. Put the treat on the treasure sounds such a great idea. None of mine seem to rg but Rusty poodle pup will always take Jojo labrador's toy away from her, just as Tass collie (used to do).
> 
> Want to work on that one.


Glad you enjoyed the thread! I’m still amazed by our progress and am glad I documented our experiences here for anyone who may need a little encouragement.

I think “put the treat on the treasure” is a great exercise to do with any dog. It promotes trust and optimism, all good things.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

A weird thing happened tonight. Peggy guarded a bully stick.

This was weird for multiple reasons:

1. It’s been _such_ a long time since she’s displayed this behaviour.

2. She’s never guarded a bully stick before. In fact, she will actively seek us out while she chews, happily accepting cuddles and often begging us to hold them for her.

3. Tonight’s episode aligns with the time in her heat cycle when she’s prone to guarding......except she was spayed in May!!

I can find no information online suggesting this is possible. *Is it possible? *The timing is just too perfect.

Then again, we’ve admittedly gotten lax with the RG protocol. Maybe we’ve been pushing her too far? Today we asked her for a hair elastic she found, and she happily handed it over. Same with a napkin from dinner. If we were still following the protocol, she’d have gotten the napkin back because it wasn’t dangerous. Not a big deal on its own, but maybe these incidents have been piling up?

Tonight’s incident was preceded by my husband misinterpreting a warning stare from her. (Hindsight is 20/20.) She was laying with me in the dark with her bully stick, with only the light from the TV. I’m injured, so she has been sticking close and may have been feeling protective. He saw her staring at him when he walked into the room, and instead of giving her a treat to reinforce optimism/reassure her, he assumed she wanted attention (which she generally does), bent over her, and pet her on the back. Her growl wasn’t a deep warning rumble. It was actually kind of shrill. (Off topic, but her voice has been very different since her spay surgery.)

I’m just thinking aloud here, as usual, but would really appreciate any thoughts on the heat cycle thing.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think hormones can take a long time to settle down, and in some cases don't completely - I had a cat who was spayed at around 5 years old, and who exhibited calling behaviour for a few days every month or so for years after. Was Peggy tired, as well as stressed from your injury? It could be trigger stacking, +/- a bit of hormones.

Either way you know what to do - back to the RG protocol, restful downtime and easy going walks for the stress, etc, etc.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> I think hormones can take a long time to settle down, and in some cases don't completely - I had a cat who was spayed at around 5 years old, and who exhibited calling behaviour for a few days every month or so for years after. Was Peggy tired, as well as stressed from your injury? It could be trigger stacking, +/- a bit of hormones.
> 
> Either way you know what to do - back to the RG protocol, restful downtime and easy going walks for the stress, etc, etc.


I think you nailed it, @fjm.

She was definitely tuned into my injury. And I was propped up in a chair I don’t usually use, leaving little room for her to tuck in, with my husband repeatedly checking in on me. I’m sure she felt all the strangeness.

She also had a vigorous flirt pole session this evening, which left her both adrenalized and exhausted. After picking up random toys for 20 minutes, she curled up in a dark corner, in a bed she rarely uses. That’s when I gave her the bully stick, thinking it would soothe her. In retrospect, I should’ve just left her alone.

Thank you for sharing about your cat. Peggy was so affected by her hormones, I wouldn’t be surprised if she experiences similar echoes over the years. Plus, early repeated experiences can carve such deep muscle memories.

The upside is she didn’t show any stress afterwards. Just ate the last of her bully stick and then flopped onto her back, perfectly relaxed.

My husband handled it less well. Resource guarding has a strange way of offending humans. But really....how would we feel if Peggy stole something straight from our mouths? Can’t forget how many times we did that to her before she decided nope, no more. Also can’t forget how quick she was to trust us again when we started applying that protocol. Will get back to it.

Thanks again.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> He saw her staring at him when he walked into the room, and instead of giving her a treat to reinforce optimism/reassure her, he assumed she wanted attention (which she generally does), bent over her, and pet her on the back. Her growl wasn’t a deep warning rumble. It was actually kind of shrill. (Off topic, but her voice has been very different since her spay surgery.)


I don’t know anything about RG protocol. When she behaves that way, is she being told to get off the couch ? That’s what I would do but I’m wondering what the protocol says ?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> I don’t know anything about RG protocol. When she behaves that way, is she being told to get off the couch ? That’s what I would do but I’m wondering what the protocol says ?


We’ve been told to never punish Peggy for guarding, and especially not for growling. I know it seems weird, but growling is a good thing. It’s her communicating her discomfort. If you punish that behaviour, you run the risk of shutting it down. Meaning next time she could go straight to a bite. Or you reinforce her worry that bad things happen when a human approaches.

The protocol is for behaviour modification/prevention, not for addressing active RG episodes. It’s all about changing her feelings about being approached when she’s got a “treasure.”

And it works!

Even though Peggy’s guarding has always been very sporadic, her whole attitude towards found items has changed. For Peggy to literally toss a hair elastic at my feet like she did yesterday....well, that feels like a miracle.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

My husband added the dialogue bubble and sent me this yesterday. Rather fitting for this thread. Lol.


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## Tulsi (Jun 8, 2021)

I agree re hormones. It is certainly the case for rabbits adter spaying/castration that they get a hormone surge for a few weeks afterwards.

At least you have protocols in place that work!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> We’ve been told to never punish Peggy for guarding, and especially not for growling. I know it seems weird, but growling is a good thing. It’s her communicating her discomfort. If you punish that behaviour, you run the risk of shutting it down. Meaning next time she could go straight to a bite. Or you reinforce her worry that bad things happen when a human approaches.


I agree with that 100%. Same thing with parrots and I suppose most animals. Growling (or other sign) is a warning and it needs to happen.

But by getting her off the couch, I don’t mean it as a way of punishing. To me her behavior is not « up to required standards in a home » and I would want her down because she doesn’t have the required manners to chew near other people on the couch.

I’ve never had to deal with RG and I can’t give any valuable advice but that’s my way of seeing things.

I know what you’re doing works for you so keep doing it. You know best.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

I do the same as Dechi is saying: growling on furniture=get off furniture. Growling on me=I’m going to the bathroom alone. My JRT was a noisy little boss, but I didn’t want her guarding me. She very easily could have been a little tyrant. It was never punishment, and obviously yesterday you couldn’t have walked away easily since you were injured, but I don’t see “get down” or me removing myself as punishment. In no time at all my JRT would remove herself to a dog bed to be alone rather than on the couch with younger but much larger, cuddly dog brother if he started to bother her. All dogs had to get down; I don’t think that was clear.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> I agree with that 100%. Same thing with parrots and I suppose most animals. Growling (or other sign) is a warning and it needs to happen.
> 
> But by getting her off the couch, I don’t mean it as a way of punishing. To me her behavior is not « up to required standards in a home » and I would want her down because she doesn’t have the required manners to chew near other people on the couch.
> 
> ...


She wasn’t chewing anywhere near my husband. He entered the dark room and approached her. So at this point it doesn’t feel like a furniture-related issue.

She _was_ laying with me, though, and if the growl had been provoked by me shifting around and bumping her, for example, I wouldn’t let her chew near me anymore, or at least not for a while. And then I’d probably start counter-conditioning that specific scenario.

She used to startle awake when she was a puppy, if she got bumped, and that would sometimes elicit a growl. In that case I just worked on desensitization, which was effective and surprisingly quick.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Starla said:


> I do the same as Dechi is saying: growling on furniture=get off furniture. Growling on me=I’m going to the bathroom alone. My JRT was a noisy little boss, but I didn’t want her guarding me. She very easily could have been a little tyrant. It was never punishment, and obviously yesterday you couldn’t have walked away easily since you were injured, but I don’t see “get down” or me removing myself as punishment. In no time at all my JRT would remove herself to a dog bed to be alone rather than on the couch with younger but much larger, cuddly dog brother if he started to bother her. All dogs had to get down; I don’t think that was clear.


If she starts guarding furniture, I’ll absolutely be reaching back out to our behaviourist for guidance. Hoping that never happens!

As far as guarding me goes, I’ve seen hints of that around other dogs, and I do physically remove myself from the situation, mostly for management purposes. I then will alternate treats or attention, saying each dog’s name while the other waits patiently. I’ve even been guarded by _other_ people’s dogs, and once misinterpreted it as affection until our trainer pointed it out to me. D’oh. I think it’s probably quite common for people to confuse resource guarding with “Awww! He loves me!”


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

_(I’m going to insert a general disclaimer that ultimately you know your dog best, and there’s some great info here and in other places online, but I would still advise always working with a professional when aggression is involved. You can get lucky on your own...or you can make it a lot worse.)_


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Peggy found a major treasure at the beach today—_a fish spine! ick!_—and handed it over as gently as can be. This is just one of many examples of why her particular brand of resource guarding is tricky to pin down.

We’re working on the bully stick scenario now: giving her one in the evening with the lights off and the TV on, and letting her cozy up between my legs on the ottoman. My husband then tosses high-value jerky a couple of times as he walks by without eye contact.

It took only one round before she started eagerly looking up at his approach. (Yep. She’s a smart one!) But we’ll continue to reinforce this response with yummy things, and eventually pair it with him bending over her.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Peggy gleefully stole a sock today, which I’d dropped somewhere between the bedroom and the laundry room. She tossed it around a bit and then took it to her bed and laid down.

This is the point at which I would typically call her over to the pantry and ask her to drop it in exchange for a treat. This is what we’ve been doing diligently for months.

Instead, I decided to recreate the scene that prompted us to contact a behaviourist.

I leaned over her (big no no), reached down (big no no), and took the sock (big no no). She showed _zero_ signs of stress, so I happily gave her the sock back and did the usual treat routine.

I have no intention of doing this again any time soon (if ever), but with the busy holiday season coming up, I wanted to see how she’d react if someone like the dogsitter or a family member forgot the protocol.

I don’t believe her impulse to resource guard has been extinguished. She’s still Peggy. She’s still the same dog. But she’s had enough positive experiences now that she looks up with anticipation when we approach, rather than anxiety. It’s like we’ve made enough deposits, we can now make the occasional withdrawal without draining the optimism bank.


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

It really is a very strange and unpredictable behavior. Oona does not seem to have a strong tendency to resource guard, I can take things from her usually without an issue though I always offer something yummy if I'm interrupting her time with a bully stick or yak cheese. However two days ago she found a tennis ball on the boulevard in front of our neighbor's house. She usually delights in finding treasures like this, we play a little toss and she mouths it, then we leave it behind. On a walk she sometimes finds a ball and carries it a bit before getting bored of it and dropping it. This time she carried it all the way around the block, through a pee and a poop, picking it up quickly every time she dropped it. We stopped at a park and I got her to drop it once and tossed it for her, and instead of bringing it back she zoomed around excitedly like she had something she had stolen (like a mitten or a cloth mask). And I realized she had been walking ahead of me, tense and rushing this whole walk, and ignoring my commands, and I realized she was worried I was going to take the ball from her. I let her stop to play with it, which she did. And then she took it all the way home, where I did finally ask her to trade it for a nicer treat. And after looking it over to try to understand its appeal, I gave it back to her. I think maybe it had been a formerly squeaky tennis ball, which is the kind she likes to remove the squeaker on and destroy, and she had similarly destroyed a cheap ball that was inside of a tug toy that morning. So maybe she had a taste for shredding poorly made tennis balls that day. But she took it to my office and proceeded to fervently tear it apart. I was able to gather up the pieces without any issue. Weird dog. Hoping that we'll be able to return to relaxed trading and fetching with treasures instead of weird unexplained hoarding and destroying.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Elroy doesn't guard anything. He will give up a toy, a ball, a marrow bone, anything at all, without the slightest sign of anxiety. Very nonchalant about it actually. Such a good boy!


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Elroy doesn't guard anything. He will give up a toy, a ball, a marrow bone, anything at all, without the slightest sign of anxiety. Very nonchalant about it actually. Such a good boy!


Very cute, though I fear I’ve inadvertently derailed the thread away from a discussion of resource guarding which I know has been a real struggle for @PeggyTheParti. I was aiming to share a RG behavior I noticed that I am keeping an eye on.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Oonapup said:


> Very cute, though I fear I’ve inadvertently derailed the thread away from a discussion of resource guarding which I know has been a real struggle for @PeggyTheParti. I was aiming to share a RG behavior I noticed that I am keeping an eye on.


I think you handled that situation with Oona really well! You listened to her, gave her space, and reminded her she could trust you.

I’m impressed she didn’t try to gulp that shredded ball, which is how Peggy coped with her anxiety over giving up found items. I think Oona trusts you very much. 

The first time Peggy guarded something from me—a clump of grass!—she was giving me all sorts of stress signals, which I totally ignored. She’d always dropped whatever “treasure” she had at the front door when asked, and would leave it on the porch. And I suspect we’d gotten lazy about rewarding her for what we didn’t realize was very challenging for her.

The day she decided no more, I bulldozed all of her efforts at communicating with me and just tried pulling it from her mouth. Wish I had a time machine!


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I think you handled that situation with Oona really well! You listened to her, gave her space, and reminded her she could trust you.
> 
> I’m impressed she didn’t try to gulp that shredded ball, which is how Peggy coped with her anxiety over giving up found items. I think Oona trusts you very much.
> 
> ...


I think Oona loses interest after she has finished destroying it so the pieces no longer have the value that the ball did (and she doesn't seem interested in ingesting it, same as with a cardboard tube). It occurs to me that the one time she did swallow something was when she stole our friend's entire mesh treat bag for a second time after having it taken away. I didn't register it as guarding since she was running around and swallowed it before even had a chance to get close to her. Luckily that has only happened once but I always tell our walking companions to be careful of their treat pouches with my sneaky girl.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Oonapup said:


> I think Oona loses interest after she has finished destroying it so the pieces no longer have the value that the ball did (and she doesn't seem interested in ingesting it, same as with a cardboard tube). It occurs to me that the one time she did swallow something was when she stole our friend's entire mesh treat bag for a second time after having it taken away. I didn't register it as guarding since she was running around and swallowed it before even had a chance to get close to her. Luckily that has only happened once but I always tell our walking companions to be careful of their treat pouches with my sneaky girl.


It’s really the perfect solution right? Gulp it down and the problem goes away. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ When Peggy first swallowed a hair scrunchie, it’s because I completely mishandled the situation. I’d gotten into the habit of chasing her when she found stuff, and not only did that teach her I couldn’t be trusted, it increased the value of found items _and_ sent her adrenaline through the roof. 

Peggy doesn’t want to eat non-food items. She’s not an insatiable Golden, or my SIL’s springer who could think of nothing else but filling his belly. In her case, it’s actually a very non-confrontational (but very dangerous) way of guarding high-value items.

Once I recognized gulping as a guarding/coping behaviour, my whole attitude changed, and it’s now a very, very rare occurrence around here (knock on wood).

As I was typing that, Peggy did this. Lol.


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> It’s really the perfect solution right? Gulp it down and the problem goes away. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ When Peggy first swallowed a hair scrunchie, it’s because I completely mishandled the situation. I’d gotten into the habit of chasing her when she found stuff, and not only did that teach her I couldn’t be trusted, it increased the value of found items _and_ sent her adrenaline through the roof.
> 
> Peggy doesn’t want to eat non-food items. She’s not an insatiable Golden, or my SIL’s springer who could think of nothing else but filling his belly. In her case, it’s actually a very non-confrontational (but very dangerous) way of guarding high-value items.
> 
> ...


Ha, Oona did the same thing with a scrap of the tennis ball I had missed under my desk yesterday. Yay for trust! In that 2nd pic Peggy looks like she's thinking - "I don't know why you think this scrap of trash is so great, but whatever, weirdo"


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Just a little update:

My husband left a very sleepy Peggy snoozing in the bed this morning. A little while later we heard her stirring, and then she strolled out of the bedroom, into the living room, and gave us a deli sandwich wrapper!! My husband had gotten up for a midnight snack and left the yummy smelling plastic wrap on the nightstand.

1. She didn’t chew or gulp it.
2. She brought it straight to us, unprompted.

Amazing. Absolutely amazing.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Okay, bad humans. Lol. She just brought us a sleeve of arrowroot cookies from _my_ side of the bed.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Just had our first guarding incident in 4 months and it was a *weird* one. For anyone interested:

We were all in the living room, watching TV. I peeled a clementine and Peggy was acting really silly around it, twirling in circles, play bowing, etc. It was funny, so I put the peel on the ground and told her she was welcome to it.

She stared at the peel for a sec, still loose and silly, and then suddenly she stood over it, very still, head down. My husband and I were confused. I asked him if she was guarding it and he didn’t know.

Now this is the part I wish we could do over, but hindsight is 20/20, right? It really seemed absolutely ridiculous that she’d be guarding a clementine peel.

My husband reached for the peel and Peggy did a big snarl in his direction and then quickly lowered her head back down over the peel. He was sitting only inches from her, and so was I, but I was in a lounging position and couldn’t easily extricate myself from the situation. To be honest, I was pretty scared I was going to inadvertently escalate things.

I told my husband to walk away and get the chicken jerky (part of our guarding protocol) and this made him angry. He didn’t feel he should “back down.” But that’s why we hired a behaviourist, *because our instincts in these situations are often wrong.*

Thankfully, he got the jerky and Peggy immediately relaxed and left the peel. He didn’t have to toss it or anything. She just trotted away with him. They did some gentle training (touch, paw, etc.) and that was that. I threw out the peel.

Now Peggy is sitting and staring at me, wondering why I don’t feel like playing, while I work through what the _heck_ just happened. I so wish I had a video of the incident because I just don’t get it.  It followed none of her usual guarding patterns. None. Unless I’m missing something obvious??


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I don’t know if you missed anything but I just want to say you are so much better than I would be at this ! I would have thought the same as your husband : no way I’m backing down from this. Geez, I’m not even there and I am all angry about it…

Kudos to you, really.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> I don’t know if you missed anything but I just want to say you are so much better than I would be at this ! I would have thought the same as your husband : no way I’m backing down from this. Geez, I’m not even there and I am all angry about it…
> 
> Kudos to you, really.


Lol. Thanks for saying that, Dechi 

I don’t generally feel that anger myself, but I do know it’s very common. And I do kinda want to shake her in the moment, like, “_Snap out of it!_” But mostly I just feel really, really sad, realizing yet again that I’ll never fully be able to trust her.

She’s been so easy and docile, even with my parents visiting and all the disruptions to her routine. Just a perfect dog, honestly—loving and obedient and silly and calm.

A few days ago I started hearing a little voice in my head, warning me that some of my parents’ well-meaning interactions with her could trigger a guarding episode. Like giving her a treat and then lovingly petting her while she eats it. Or letting their little dog take kibble from her bowl. So I’ve been trying _really_ hard to coach them. But it’s hard, and I think most people here can relate to that. 

It’s possible I was actually antagonizing her with the clementine peel and let my human sense of humour cloud my judgment. She kept turning her head away and holding it like that, eyes averted. But I egged her on. Still don’t understand how that would lead to a _guarding_ episode, though.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

For others dealing with this stuff, here’s an excerpt from an article I just read:

*What NOT to Do if Your Dog Resource Guards*
_
Never punish a growling dog. You can punish away a growl, sure, but all you've done is make a dog bite more likely. If your dog learns that growling to express their discomfort at your approach results in an aversive (such as yelling, hitting, a "tap" from a shock collar), and the loss of the item they were guarding, the next time you reach for it, they're more likely to skip the growl and go straight for a bite._









Resource Guarding in Dogs: How to Stop Dog Resource Guarding


Does your dog guard toys or chews? Growl when you approach while they're eating or show other food aggression? Read what to do if your dog resource guards




www.preventivevet.com





From that same article is this anecdote from the author, a certified trainer:

_Once I gave each of my dogs a new chew, a super smelly (and I'm assuming super delicious to dogs) lamb spine. They sat and enjoyed it for a while, and then I got up from my spot on the couch and walked past one of them to the kitchen. As I got near, I reached down — not to take the chew, but to give my dog a scratch on the neck — and I was greeted by a low, sustained growl. I immediately stopped what I was doing, took a step back, and assessed the situation. This was the first time that my dog had shown resource guarding behavior towards me. And you know what I did? I called him into the kitchen and traded him some cheese for the chew, and then never bought those chews again. If only all my resource guarding cases were that simple._

******

Not only do I like reading about how the pros handle this stuff, I like knowing they have to deal with it sometimes, too, with their own dogs. I like being reminded that resource guarding is normal even if it’s not desirable, and that we’re not lousy owners, nor is Peggy a lousy dog.

Kikopup, another excellent trainer, also recently posted about resource guarding over on her Instagram account. She’s had multiple dogs who were resource guarders. Her dogs that don’t resource guard, she says, “just came that way.” She doesn’t take any credit. I think that’s very cool.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I like the notion of avoiding high value items that might trigger resource guarding. I think that's an important lesson during the Christmas season, when dogs are getting special treats and might also be getting stressed due to guests and other household commotion. One of the only times Snarky and Pogo ever quarreled was when a well meaning house guest brought them a single smoked marrow bone as a present. The bone was sufficiently high value to them that they were willing to fight over it. I took it away, and they didn't see another marrow bone for several years.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Kikopup, another excellent trainer…


I really like Emily. I don’t know if you knew, but she just lost Splash, her service dog.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> I really like Emily. I don’t know if you knew, but she just lost Splash, her service dog.


Yes, so sad.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

cowpony said:


> I like the notion of avoiding high value items that might trigger resource guarding. I think that's an important lesson during the Christmas season, when dogs are getting special treats and might also be getting stressed due to guests and other household commotion. One of the only times Snarky and Pogo ever quarreled was when a well meaning house guest brought them a single smoked marrow bone as a present. The bone was sufficiently high value to them that they were willing to fight over it. I took it away, and they didn't see another marrow bone for several years.


I like it, too. It’s really such a simple management technique for a problem that can seem dramatic, but is really so normal.

I’m having a harder time understanding how I should be managing Peggy’s guarding when it’s suddenly manifested in such a random way. This morning I’m no closer to understanding what happened with that orange peel last night. But I do wonder if all the excitement of the past 6 weeks has been adding up in ways I don’t understand or may not be so obvious. Like trigger stacking.

Around the time we contacted the behaviourist, we decided to keep just a single toy indoors at any one time so Peggy wouldn’t have many resources that are “hers”. Currently there are at least half a dozen toys floating around inside, another half dozen outside, plus treats of all kinds coming from all directions, a new dog coming and going, my parents who love her and are so very kind to her but don’t handle her the same way we do, etc. Plus all the Christmas delicacies and decorations, which Peggy does an excellent job ignoring, but is obviously quite aware of.

And then I go and tease her with a stupid orange peel and laugh at all her attempts to defuse the situation. Maybe she wasn’t guarding so much as telling us to STOP? I can’t find anything online about why a dog would guard something they don’t actually want anything to do with.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

If I follow the sequence correctly, you had something unusually interesting in your hand, Peggy expressed an interest, you gave it to her, she decided it must be truly a treasure, then your husband tried to take it away without asking first. On top of a lot of unusual stuff that has been more than a little muddling. Unexpected, perhaps, but not, I think, inexplicable.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> If I follow the sequence correctly, you had something unusually interesting in your hand, Peggy expressed an interest, you gave it to her, she decided it must be truly a treasure, then your husband tried to take it away without asking first. On top of a lot of unusual stuff that has been more than a little muddling. Unexpected, perhaps, but not, I think, inexplicable.


Thank you for breaking it down so simply for me, @fjm. An outside perspective can be so valuable.

I think the part that confused me is that she really wanted nothing to do with it while it was in my hand. It was like the _opposite_ of one of her usual treasures. But as soon as it was on the ground, she stood rigidly over it.

In hindsight, it was obviously a classic guarding pose. Duh. But in the moment, in context, it seemed more plausible she was frozen in a playful, about-to-pounce pose.

Maybe I was inadvertently giving the orange peel extra value by teasing her with it?

Regardless, I feel silly for teasing her. I didn’t see it as teasing at the time. Her reactions were so funny, it felt more like play. But I realize now I was antagonizing her.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

We had another guarding episode last night, and again it didn’t quite fit her old pattern. She’s also been eating a _ton _and being even more affectionate than usual. It’s as though she is in heat, which is not possible since she was spayed back in May.

Most (or maybe even all?) of Peggy’s guarding behaviours in 2021 have been directed towards my husband. That seems noteworthy. We had a heart-to-heart last night, in which I stressed the importance of following the protocol rather than our instincts. I hate nagging. Really, really hate it. But after she growled last night, he kept reaching for her, kept trying to pet her. I am so afraid he’s going to inadvertently push her to bite.

She was half asleep at the time, and all it took was a brisk “Let’s go!” for me to snap her out of it. She immediately shook her body and trotted after me, all stress evaporated. She even grabbed the toy she was guarding and gave it to me, unsolicited.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

If she was sleeping or dosing and DH startled her then I don't think this was a guarding incident at all. Remember the expression "let sleeping dogs lie/" That is what this sounds like and gorwling doesn't always go with aggression or guarding. Javelin and Lily sleep in the bed with me most nights. If Lily or I roll over and Javelin has to move to respond to our movements he will give a small growl. He is essentially saying I wish I didn't expect to get bumped, but he never asserts his position and never tries to tell either of us to move. He is not guarding anything, rather he usually ends up deciding to get off the bed for a while.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

lily cd re said:


> If she was sleeping or dosing and DH startled her then I don't think this was a guarding incident at all. Remember the expression "let sleeping dogs lie/" That is what this sounds like and gorwling doesn't always go with aggression or guarding. Javelin and Lily sleep in the bed with me most nights. If Lily or I roll over and Javelin has to move to respond to our movements he will give a small growl. He is essentially saying I wish I didn't expect to get bumped, but he never asserts his position and never tries to tell either of us to move. He is not guarding anything, rather he usually ends up deciding to get off the bed for a while.


I’m so glad you shared this. Thank you. A toy was involved, but sleep was probably the main factor.

We had to wake her for her potty walk, but should have used words not hands.

It was after a minute of being gently stroked by both of us that she frantically reached for the toy that was on the bed with her. My husband then petted her again, trying to soothe her, and she growled with the toy in her mouth.

I think what happened is she felt our hands on her, sleepily opened her eyes, saw my husband, backlit, looming over her, and reacted with panic. She’d had a long, exhausting day, and was in a deep sleep.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Robin I think I recall you and I exchantging thoughts on not looking forward to touching people when or if restrictions on these things disappear. I really don't like hugging anyone (even family members for the most part). I love them but don't need to touch them to show those feelings. Maybe Peggy is like us more than a big pets and hugs sort of a dog. 

I see people touching, petting and hugging their dogs very often for no good reason, see tiny dogs being carried and being smothered in their owners' arms with tons of whale eye showing. Most people greatly overestimate most dogs in terms of how much they want physical contact with us or even with each other. After 6 1/2 years I see Lily and Javelin mostly seeking to avoid touching each other when they are resting. I don't know if they got the "hug version" from me or if I just picked pups that shared those traits with me. We all love one another and both poodles separately love having physical contact with me but they definitely don't love physical contact with one nother and I never try to compel them to make that contact.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

lily cd re said:


> Robin I think I recall you and I exchantging thoughts on not looking forward to touching people when or if restrictions on these things disappear. I really don't like hugging anyone (even family members for the most part). I love them but don't need to touch them to show those feelings. Maybe Peggy is like us more than a big pets and hugs sort of a dog.
> 
> I see people touching, petting and hugging their dogs very often for no good reason, see tiny dogs being carried and being smothered in their owners' arms with tons of whale eye showing. Most people greatly overestimate most dogs in terms of how much they want physical contact with us or even with each other. After 6 1/2 years I see Lily and Javelin mostly seeking to avoid touching each other when they are resting. I don't know if they got the "hug version" from me or if I just picked pups that shared those traits with me. We all love one another and both poodles separately love having physical contact with me but they definitely don't love physical contact with one nother and I never try to compel them to make that contact.


I may need to print this reminder out and stick it on our fridge.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I was initially going to post this story in my Peggy Pics thread, but I think it belongs here, as a part of our RG journey. 

Context: We’ve had a number of family members visiting from out-of-state for the past week and a half. Peggy has never had this level of social interaction before and was meeting most of them—all dog lovers!—for the first time. She’s had to navigate more aggressive physical contact than she’d probably like—lots of thumping head pats and uninvited hugs—but she always has space to retreat when she wants....which is rarely. She’s been having too much fun!! And she’s developed an extra special bond with our 11-year-old niece. 

Yesterday we took Peggy to a new-to-her city, where she escorted us on a downtown shopping trip for the first time, strolling on a very busy sidewalk from shop-to-shop and waiting at each entrance with me while the rest of the gang browsed. After about two hours of this, everyone was hot and exhausted, so we retired to a shady cluster of benches to relax. 

And that’s where it happened: a tense moment when Peggy was lying in Sphinx-pose at my feet, focused on a piece of chicken jerky in my hand, and her new little human friend surprised her from behind with an affectionate grab.

This is a scenario I’ve envisioned for three years, ever since Peggy’s first resource guarding episode—my NIGHTMARE scenario, for which we’ve trained as best we could.

An exhausted, over-stimulated Peggy, on her ninth day of visitors, in a strange, stressful place... 

Small hands reaching out unexpectedly, oblivious to Peggy’s laser focus on a treasure....

And you know what? Peggy growled. She did. After days of hands all over her, of uninvited hugs and headlocks (yep, someone put her in a playful headlock before I could intervene) and food coming at her from all directions, of missed naps and too-short nights, and dogs—so many strange dogs—in and around her personal space, her body stiffened and she rumbled:

BACK OFF.

And you know what else? Our niece immediately realized what she’d done, but Peggy realized _even faster_. In a split second she was on her feet, licking her new friend’s face, fanning her ears out in her sweetest, meekest, most endearing Peggy way, body loose and wiggling, chicken jerky forgotten.

(If you have a dog who’s prone to resource guarding, you may understand just how unusual it is for a treasure to be abandoned so swiftly.)

I cut the day short and cleared the next day’s schedule to allow Peggy to decompress. But poodle and kid remained inseparable for the remainder of their time together, Peggy offering appeasement gesture after appeasement gesture, and my watchful eyes ensuring no further missteps.

I’m glad Peggy lives in a childless household, and she will _never_ be left alone with a little one, but I think she’s really going to miss her tweenage friend. And I know her friend is going to miss her, too! She briefly floated the idea of buying a plane ticket for Peggy to come back to the Midwest with her.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

That sounds like a great success. Peggy can't help having a tightly wound temperament; genetics is what it is. However, she is able to communicate her distress and trust she will get relief.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

cowpony said:


> That sounds like a great success. Peggy can't help having a tightly wound temperament; genetics is what it is. However, she is able to communicate her distress and trust she will get relief.


Yes! Exactly this. 

I suspect we could actually go a little further, and teach her lizard brain that a touch or grab while treasure-focused means an even _better_ treasure. But I’d want to speak with our trainer or behaviourist first. They’d probably tell us to just keep doing what we’re doing and not push it.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Congratulations to Peggy, to your niece and most of all to you, for guiding Peggy to this point.


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## Sroodle8 (Dec 23, 2021)

Round of applause for both the kid and the dog! Well done.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

The way you were telling the story, I was thinking you were going to say Peggy Snapped at her, or worse, bit her. So glad it was a happy ending😁. Good job Team Peggy!


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

This is wonderful and encouraging news. Peggy has made so much progress. It's seems recent travels and exposure to different people and experiences have really made a difference. Peggy's developing ability to cope with the unexpected is definitely going to give her a better quality of life, i.e, more trips and friends. I think you can trust her. She obviously demonstrated self control and awareness with regard to what happened with your niece. I would have growled a little too if someone snuck up and grabbed my butt. Hooray for Peggy - and you too.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Today Peggy gave her bully stick to my parents’ little chihuahua mix. 🥺


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