# 6 Month Old Standard Puppy & Hard Biting



## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

A few ideas from the other members...

Physical correction is rarely used, but we have some very experienced members who have done a tap on top of the nose, or a hand circled around the nose but not tightly, with "No bite" as the instruction. This can backfire badly so usually isn't recommended to inexperienced owners who aren't used to using positive reinforcement methods, and only carefully using the negative quadrants.

With my two mpoos, the bitey behavior went on, reduced, for probably two months more after full adult teeth were in. Distraction and redirection were our primary tools. Trading out for an appropriate object/toy to place in the mouth instead worked for mine. Over 4 years later, Neo still gets excited and mouthy in some circumstances. He remembers his manners and will still stuff his face with one of the very available toys strewn around rather than bite.

Another member distracts by asking for a different action, "sit", "down", any tricks they might know or start teaching a new trick.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

PoodleSeekin said:


> When he's overstimulated he bites like a menace.


You recognize the problem … overstimulated. I found both my minipoos at that age had that same annoying behavior when they were overstimulated, tired or both. Echo will exhibit certain behaviors indicating he’s getting tired. You can head off problems by encouraging a nap or quiet time before he escalates to naughty behavior. Maybe this happens at a particular time of day? You know he does it when he doesn’t get enough attention. I found naps to be very helpful with my current puppy.

What behavior do you do that can set him off? I found coming home set it off so I had a toy In my hand ready to stick in the mouth to block any excitement biting. Can you modify your behavior to avoid the problem? I couldn’t stop coming home, but I could carry a toy to put in my dog’s mouth. I could end play time earlier before it got my dog too excited, or avoid “teasing “ kind of games.

When he is wild, have something handy to stick in Echo’s mouth (toy or bully stick) before he takes a chomp. I walked around with stuff in my pockets for a few months so I would be prepared. My older dog quickly learned to find a toy to put in her mouth when she was wild. Maybe Echo will learn too. You know when they jump, that mouth is open and it’s going to catch on something, so get that toy in the mouth as quickly as possible, even mid jump. Like Neo, my dogs also learned to find a toy to put in their mouth those rare times they get too excited. 

You can ask for other behaviors such as sit, but I found my dogs were over threshold when it happened and couldn’t follow cues. It’s worth trying.

Eventually this behavior faded.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Everything Skylar said, yes, yes, and yes!

Knowing exactly what sets the dog off is how you correct the problem before it starts. Think of dog training like a traffic light. Red zone is overstimulated. Green zone is calm and collected. What does amber behavior look like in your dog? When your dog is in the amber zone, that's when you intervene and prevent red zone. The dog shouldn't be in the red zone. Dogs can't think in red zone. They just go bananas and can't listen anymore. 

When I am working with dogs who run yellow lights and get into the red zone in a blink, I play a game with them called Ping Pong. Ping Pong is a pattern game you can play in a hallway. You can use your dog's food for this. Toss a piece of food to the left for the dog to chase. Toss a piece of food to the right for the dog to chase. Repeat, left, right, left, right, until the dog is anticipating the pattern. It gets their body moving away from you, and builds confidence because they can anticipate the pattern. After about five minutes of ping pong, I bring the dog to the center in front of me. Sit, treat, back to ping pong. Down, treat, back to ping pong. 

I love this game. Dogs I train love this game. You can use it to calm a dog who is way over-threshold, or doesn't even seem to have a threshold. They learn the difference between running in excitement and calmly offering quiet behavior like sit and down and stay. Once I have dogs really good at ping pong, I add a mat in front of me. Run left, right, left, right, left, right, mat and stay for a breath. Repeat the pattern again. Stay for two breaths. Stay for five breaths, stay for one breath... Play this game with your dog for a good 20 minutes, potty break, and then crate the dog for a two hour nap. Puppies at that age need 16 hours of sleep a day. What looks like out of control behavior is often an exhaustion meltdown. 

And remember too, puppies teeth molars at around five months and final teething is finished at around 8 months. This can make dogs extra nippy at this age. Noelle was so mouthy at that age we couldn't pet her without putting something in her mouth first. We all carried chew sticks in our pockets. Bite this, not me. Right now I am training a poodle at work that is all teeth and silly. We play ping pong a lot! She's learning to settle by feeling the difference between so excited and calm. 

Whatever you do, don't yell at the dog, or get excited when the dog nips at you. You'll accidentally train your dog that nipping makes something exciting happen. Then you have a feedback loop of...

Done chewing this bone. Feeling kinda bored. Wonder what I could do? Nip!
"OW! HEY! STOP THAT!"
Oooh, that was interesting. I'm not bored anymore. Next time I'm bored, I think I'll nip.

Personally, I'm a big fan of silently leaving the room when a dog nips me. You won a free trip to Alone Land. Nipping makes everything interesting leave. This works extremely well with wee puppies. Your dog is older, but it's still worth remembering. Don't add excitement to an already excited dog. Good luck.


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## star (Feb 20, 2011)

We are dealing with that. I do a loud growly voice DON'T BITE! and take a step towards her and she stops in her tracks. Then I will wait a couple minutes and call her to me and get her interested in a toy or toss a ball. Its frustrating but I find it happens when she is over stimulated or needs a good run to burn off the energy. Exercise exercise exercise. A tired puppy with a full belly is better behaved at our house.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

Naps were my "go-to" behavior solution when Basil was under 1 year old. (Female, spoo).

Basil listened the best in the morning from 8am-10am. Why? Just woke up and battery was at 100%. Poodles are smart. So, why was she not listening to me and being a naughty girl in the afternoons? Her battery was low and she needs a recharge. Solution: Naps

Plus, you don't have to be some god-tier pet parent to turn the lights off, and do nothing for 2 hours so your dog can sleep in the middle of the day. Anyone is qualified to enforce nap time. Turn the lights off, shut the blinds, get on your phone or laptop, and don't move or make a noise.

Plus, a poodle that's sleeping cant be mouthy.. obviously. lol.


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## X skully X (Nov 21, 2021)

Oh wow I bet your mom had a great time raising and training German Shepherds! Maybe you can gently remind her that she is now helping you raise and train a poodle. Plus there are so many new things that we have learned over the past 10-20 years about dog behavior. I grew up surrounded by dogs. I didn’t expect the collies to behave the way the Labradors did. I didn’t train the chow chow like I would train a spaniel…. My parents also took the alpha dog of the pack approach, it’s not going to work that way with a poodle. Positive reinforcements are going to be your best friend while training Echo, and the training will go on and on for the rest of your dogs life. You’re not going to wake up in two years and say “yep! Training is complete!” I would just ask your mom again to compromise with you and tell her you really need her help so you can both help Echo be the best dog he can be 💜 it sounds like you are on the right track and doing your best. Big hugs to you! A lot of really great advice above 👆🏻 I’ll second the pocket stuffing with toys and treats. Even if my pup is overstimulated and getting into the red zone a dog treat waved in his face will have him dropping his butt to the ground and paying attention. That’s just MY pup though. Let us know how things are going over the next few weeks. If anything else you can rant and unload some frustration here. Wishing you the best.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I don't like to do anything that might teach my dog to be head shy. Poodles, unlike German Shepherds, need to get their muzzles shaved and topknots groomed. I don't ever want my dog thinking a hand on their face is a form of punishment. I work too hard to get my dog to accept grooming. I don't want to undo that work by slapping their face or wrapping my hand around their muzzle.

I tend to shut down any rowdiness in the house before it escalates to damage. I shove the boys out into the backyard if they are wrestling in the living room. I move into another room and closes the baby gate behind me if they are mouthing me. 

I hadn't heard of Click-n-Treat's ping pong game before, but it sounds fun and helpful. I play a similar game where I teach the dog to back away and catch a treat. I also tend to completely ignore my dogs when I get home. (It's actually pretty easy to ignore them. I've usually been out of the house for a while, and I desperately need to pee. The dogs have learned to scatter lest they get trampled as I sprint for the bathroom. They occupy themselves by sniffing my bag until I'm ready to be friendly.)


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## PoodleSeekin (May 8, 2021)

Thank you so much for all the kind and helpful replies! You're all so understanding and reading thisi s making me feel a little more like I can do this.

I am going to have my Mum read the thread, and we're going to work out a game plan. Last night we set up a little barrier that sort of divides the main part of the house in half, so it is easier to put him or ourselves behind the baby gate. Aside from that we also have started trying this ::

When it was TV time and he was very growly and tantrum-y and biting as a result, everytime he got too intense about it we put him on his leash so he'd settle a bit (treats when behaving nice of course) and then let him off when he'd chilled back out again. Repeat. Does that sound like an alright method? It did seem to work really well!

@*Click-N-Treat*
The Ping Pong game sounds very fun! Echo probably won't do it with kibble (he's a fussy little monster) but treats for sure- still doable with treats?

@*X skully X*
Thank you very much honestly, poodles are just so different from most dogs. I think in a lot of ways they're harder 'cuz they're so dang smart lol. Your post got me a tiny bit emotional.

Anyway, will keep updated with how this all goes, and thank you to everyone again.
Here's Echo by the way


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

I think we need to remember that little puppies bite one another when playing together. They learn not to bite too hard when the bitten puppy complains and leaves the game. So they need to learn that if they bite on a person that person will complain and stop playing with them. 

Yes, I do correct dogs who bite too hard by tapping the nose or grasping the muzzle and saying "no bites!". But keep in mind that I have been raising dogs for over 50 years and have a pretty good sense of just how hard to tap. Also keep in mind that poodles are very mouthy and really love to hold your hand - gently - in their mouths.


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## PoodleSeekin (May 8, 2021)

Johanna said:


> Also keep in mind that poodles are very mouthy and really love to hold your hand - gently - in their mouths.


Omg yes, Echo's favourite thing as super-baby=puppy at like 8 weeks was napping just with my hand in his mouth. He never hurt me. When we first wake up in the morning he likes to take my hand as well, always very gently. Is that alright to let continue, or do you think it'll confuse him that I'm letting him bite sometimes but other times no??


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## X skully X (Nov 21, 2021)

PoodleSeekin said:


> Your post got me a tiny bit emotional.


 Oh goodness I hope not in a bad way! Every word was meant with compassion 💜 I’ll admit I’m pretty old school myself and when my pup bit me really hard that first week here my knee jerk reaction was to pop him in the mouth, his reaction to that was to get real excited and bark at me and bite me harder. Had my own rude wake up call that I wasn’t training a breed I’m familiar with and needed a much different approach.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

My miniature poodle Cooper was very mouthy for pretty much all of his life (14 months old) and having jaw dysplasia didn't help, chewing on things seemed to soothe him. This is what we did and I am pleased to say that with perseverance and consistency, it worked a treat.

Cooper got overexcited if any of his favourite people came to the house or if he was doing exciting play or zoomies and that's when he became mouthy. We literally just stuffed something in his mouth, a chew or a toy. We did this every single time. After maybe 1 or 2 months of consistently doing this, he started to do it himself. My sister was one of his favourite people. If she came to visit, he would run and get a chew before he said hi to her. He would be really excited but no teeth because his mouth was busy. Once he knew he was calm enough, he would spit the chew out and then the kisses would start. If we were playing and he started rough housing, I would walk away and tell him to get a toy. It was enough to interrupt his excitement and again, as time went by, he would stop himself when he was getting too excited and go and get a toy.

It takes work and patience but there is no better feeling than seeing it work.

Good luck


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## PoodleSeekin (May 8, 2021)

X skully X said:


> Oh goodness I hope not in a bad way! Every word was meant with compassion 💜


Not at all! You were very kind, and it made me feel heard.

@*Sole0102*
While I'm willing to do this and have tried in the past (admittedly I definitely needed to be more consistent!), my family finds it a bit cumbersome to have to carry around a toy. They're a bit old school and have been a touch resistant to my "newer" methods haha.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

PoodleSeekin said:


> Not at all! You were very kind, and it made me feel heard.
> 
> @*Sole0102*
> While I'm willing to do this and have tried in the past (admittedly I definitely needed to be more consistent!), my family finds it a bit cumbersome to have to carry around a toy. They're a bit old school and have been a touch resistant to my "newer" methods haha.


I have been there with a friend who visits us almost daily. She wouldn't listen to what I said and thought I was being mean to Cooper by stopping him from having "fun" or making excuses that he was still a puppy 🙄. What she didn't understand was that Cooper was my boy and he listened to his mumma. Everyone else took my advice and rules on board and once Cooper learnt my way of doing things, he did the same with everyone. If I saw him getting carried away with my friend, I called him to me and he came or I would say his name and tell him to go and get a toy and he did that too. He was so clever. Eventually my friend realised that I was right all along and was relieved that Cooper was learning some self control. I notice that you said you are disabled, I am too and believe me, your little poodle will tune into that and want to be with you. That gives you a certain amount of control over the situation. I know that it's difficult but sometimes we have to stand up for ourselves and our dogs and what's best for them. You are doing great ❤ x


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## PoodleSeekin (May 8, 2021)

Sole0102 said:


> I know that it's difficult but sometimes we have to stand up for ourselves and our dogs and what's best for them. You are doing great ❤ x


Thank you! Your situation sounds like it was so frustrating. I'll definitely re-pitch the toy on hand at all times idea. I've seen videos of goldens that automatically go get ap illow every time they're overexcited and I imagine it's because of this exact thing


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

PoodleSeekin said:


> Thank you! Your situation sounds like it was so frustrating. I'll definitely re-pitch the toy on hand at all times idea. I've seen videos of goldens that automatically go get ap illow every time they're overexcited and I imagine it's because of this exact thing


It was very frustrating but I can be quite stubborn when I need to be and especially if I know I'm right. I also believe that if I say that my dog can or can't do something, that should be respected. Sometimes it's really important. Something else that I will suggest, especially as you said that he can get bored, is try to work his brain. We did recall training with Cooper for an hour once per week with a dog trainer and he slept for about 3 hours after each session. It involved him having to focus for that length of time and it tired him out. Try giving Echo a job to do, I know he is young but that poodle brain will amaze you x


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Sole0102 said:


> Try giving Echo a job to do,


Trick training?


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

PoodleSeekin said:


> Omg yes, Echo's favourite thing as super-baby=puppy at like 8 weeks was napping just with my hand in his mouth. He never hurt me. When we first wake up in the morning he likes to take my hand as well, always very gently. Is that alright to let continue, or do you think it'll confuse him that I'm letting him bite sometimes but other times no??


I think most people would tell you not to do it. However, in my opinion dogs are capable of understanding certain actions are only permitted at certain times and places. We would never manage to housebreak them if they didn't. If my own dog got comfort from hand holding, I would let him hold my hand as long as he followed very strict rules: 1) Always grasp gently 2) Always let go when asked 3) Only grasp when invited 4) Only have these mouthing sessions in the quiet sleepy morning time when you are still in bed. If violates any one of these rules, then revoke his hand holding privileges.


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## PoodleSeekin (May 8, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> Trick training?


Absolutely! He catches on to tricks so fast- most anyway. I want to teach crawl and roll over but we have hardwood flooring and he does NOT like scooching in a lie down on it. I'm currently teaching 'Cicle' which isn't as complex as crawl or roll over, but it is very cute. (Make him walk a circle around me then sit nicely in front).



cowpony said:


> I would let him hold my hand as long as he followed very strict rules: 1) Always grasp gently 2) Always let go when asked 3) Only grasp when invited 4) Only have these mouthing sessions in the quiet sleepy morning time when you are still in bed. If violates any one of these rules, then revoke his hand holding privileges.


I'll make sure I'm strict with this and enforce the rules! Thank you.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

If you like teaching him Circle, look up "Middle" training. You teach him to go into the middle of you legs then sit. Cooper learned this in only 2 sessions. It is very cute but also comes in handy if you need him back to you when outdoors or for putting his lead on or taking it off once he is at that stage.


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## PoodleSeekin (May 8, 2021)

Omg that's a great idea, thank you! I didn't even know that was a thing. He loves curling around our legs thru the middle already, so I think it'll be an easy one 

What are some other good tricks??


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I actually haven't looked thru all these but scrolling partway down the page offers various trick levels to consider. In AKC it is a title which can be earned.
AKC Trick Dog – American Kennel Club

I haven't looked to see if the CKC offers something similar
And now I have 
CKC Welcomes Do More With Your Dog!® Trick Dog Title Recognition Program | CKC
Teaching Skills and Sparking Excitement! | Do More With Your Dog!

Whether you eventually try for titles is less important than the experience. My boys aren't great at this - check that, I'm not great at training - but it has a lot of benefits for you, Pup, and just builds smiles.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Some of the tricks I've taught my guys include waving a paw, waving the other paw, backing up, catching a treat in mid air, spin, hop up on a stool, and ring a bell.
I would skip teaching your dog to open doors and drawers unless you are fine with installing child locks on all your cabinets afterwards.


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## PoodleSeekin (May 8, 2021)

Omg I can't even imagine teaching him to open drawers, he'd be too powerful!
Thank you for the link rose n poos! The videos are tremendously helpful


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