# good at home, bad in class??



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I know any number of trainers who reckon "But he does it perfectly at home!" is one of the commonest things they hear from owners! It is probably partly his age, and partly the very distracting environment - plus, perhaps, a full bladder or bowel (I eventually learned that when mine stopped listening to me in class, a quick walk outside frequently sorted he problem!). Have you started practicing the behaviours out of your home? Don't expect quite as long, or for him to stay quite so far from you. Think about the three Ds - distance, duration, and distraction - and reduce distance and duration when yo ask him to do something in a more distracting environment. And perhaps keep some even better treats - chicken or cheese - that he only gets in class. Be patient, practice while you are out and about, and I will almost guarantee that in a few weeks or months he will once more be top of the class.

Jean Donaldson's "Train your dog like a pro" is excellent on how to proof behaviour in different environments.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

And you know what else it could be, that Sprout's so darn smart! My previous non-poodle dogs were so easy to train; I'd repeat the exercise about 100 times and treat them whenever they accidentally did the desired behaviour, and presto! Once they learned something, they learned it for life. With my POODLES, I now believe they know what I want after about the 2nd or 3rd repetition, they just find it boring to do on command. I'm no expert, but maybe you could try mixing up the training so that you ask Sprout to do it in unexpected situations and have your attitude up, up, up so it's super fun! This is what I'm doing, but I have kind of the opposite problem; Maddy is like the cartoon Tasmanian devil in a perpetual tornado at home but in class she's kind of sedate and well, sleepy. When the instructor is talking, Maddy lets out a huge squeaky yawn and flops down on the ground to catch a few zzzz's. The time she really perks up is when another dog comes near during an exercise because she hopes that I will have relaxed my grip on the leash and she can launch herself into the air from a sitting position to land on some poor unsuspecting dog's neck--oh what fun! (p.s. that really happened)


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## jfo (Nov 19, 2010)

My 1-year-old spoo Raven is the exact same. She's so well behaved at home and super sassy in class. For us, it's the excitement of other dogs. She loves everyone and sometimes can't contain herself! It's our main obstacle!


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Lrkelly, just because hot dogs are the most exciting thing the living room doesn't mean they're the most exciting thing in class! : ) I mean, you may love an ice cream cone, but would you give a hoot about the person trying to give you one if Ed McMahon was trying to hand you the giant check?! I'm with fjm about trying different treats, that's a very good idea. And remember, even if you do bring his favorite food IN THE WORLD to class, he still may find watching other dogs or sniffing after them or greeting new people more fun than food. So, again like fjm said, you may need to gradually build up to Sprout listening better to you amidst distraction. Going to class is still great even if sometimes it proves to be too much excitement, but also make sure you're adding new distractions at home. Once he's a pro inside, start rehearsing in the yard, then down the block, then in the parking lot of the local pet store, then in the pet store. He'll start to connect these behaviors to your requesting them, as opposed to connecting them to his environment, in no time! I think Sprout's behavior is PERFECTLY normal!! : )

Actually, the only thing that seems off in your experience is your trainer not believing you. It is *very* common for dogs to have behaviors down pat in one situation and seem completely oblivious when presented with a new/exciting/scary/etc. environment. Is she experienced? Had you accidentally rewarded the wrong behavior in class that she saw, or she's just going on assumption that you're making mistakes even though you say no? I'm worried that if she's not explaining this very common issue to you (and the other students - I mean, this is what "basic obedience" is about!), what else is she leaving out? Maybe you could call around a few other classes and tell them what Sprout's been doing and gauge their responses. You just might find that many of them will understand and be more than happy to help you build his reliability under distracting circumstances. : )

And, one more reference to fjm's post, Jean Donaldson - anything by Jean Donaldson! She's great!


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Welcome to poodle training :smile:.

I save the super good treats for high-distraction environments like classes; at home, we train with kibble.

It will come, be patient and keep working. 

I find it helps to take any of our training "on the road". We train on the high street with lots of shoppers about, at the vet's office, in the post office, etc. Anywhere there are distractions. We practice stays while out hiking and I am not averse to asking total strangers to help me practice "stand for examination".


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## lrkellly (Jan 6, 2012)

*Thanks*

Thanks everyone...

This is all _REALLY_ good advice! I love this forum . 

He definitely was 'into' watching the other dogs... although he was still treat motivated, jumping up for treats when asking him to sit (so bad!) etc... 

So, yes, other dogs + probably a bit of boredom as well, with the training. Maybe he needed more challenge, although how can you get to more advanced behaviour if they're not offering the simple ones first...

When I told my partner that the trainer thought we were rewarding bad behaviour he got really angry... since we're paying $125 for 6 sessions, and we honestly make a point of never rewarding bad behaviour. We've both read many dog training books, and Sprout's already been to puppy class.... I actually was only interested in learning how to get better recall, since he could already sit and wait etc. He sits, waits, etc. on walks and at the park, and I practice at my parents' house and at friends' houses, he does them all there. Perhaps it was just having the other dogs around...

Anyway...thanks again for your advice!! Joe says he doesn't want me to go to the last class because it is a waste of time since she couldn't really offer us a solution to the problem (and just blamed us). I thought he was over-reacting a bit. Thoughts?? Oh.. and no, she didn't see me reward him for bad behaviour in class, she's just assuming.

The trainer was actually a dolphin trainer before becoming a dog trainer. I'm not sure what her dog training certification is... 

In any case, I'm REALLY glad I'm not the only one! 

Thanks for the Jean Donaldson recommend! I have read Julie Bjelland - are the techniques very different between the two?

Thanks again everyone 
Laura.


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## Theo'sMom (Mar 23, 2011)

I think you can go to class for sprout's sake. Even if he's distracted or bored, it still gives you both an opportunity to practice. Theo had classes where he'd make his own curriculum too. :argh: And then he'd have a good class.
It was embarassing but we did our best and appreciated it when someone else's pup was worse. :devil:
I think it was good for Theo to keep going.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would keep going too, as long as Sprout is enjoying it. I found getting well away into a corner helped when my pups were a bit stressed and distracted by the other dogs. I tried to create a sort of bubble of calm around us - not always easy with a manic youngster howling on one side, and some undertrained doofus careering about on the other - and that was the owners!


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Yes, go to class. As long as the trainer isn't attacking you or your dog, it's still a great place for you to practice! : )

As far as boredom goes, I remember Lumi would get bored in puppy kindergarten. She already knew sit, down, stand, etc. (although we definitely needed the distraction practice!), but most of the puppies there had never been taught any of those things before coming to class. So, while the trainer was demonstrating how to lure the sit or down, and then during the time she gave everyone to work with their own pups, I had to add more stuff for Lumi. For example, whenever the trainer was talking and we humans were all listening (remember, that's a very boring time for Sprout! - it put Indiana's Maddy to sleep!), I was nonchalantly giving hand signals to Lumi and dropping down treats when she responded. This was *really* helpful, because once Sprout decides you're boring and starts sniffing about for something more fun, it's hard to get them back into training mode. Lumi was usually readily awaiting my attention again because I was rewarding her for doing so. Then when the trainer would say "Try it with your dog." and Lumi didn't need as much time as she was allotting for the the other dogs who were being taught a new behavior, we'd do a few reps of that behavior, then I'd ask something else, then something else, then back to the same behavior as the rest of class, then something else, just to keep it interesting for her.

Hehe, it's kind of funny that you say she was a dolphin trainer. No wonder she isn't familiar with the distraction dilemma - how often did she take her dolphins to the pet store to practice stay?! ; ) Still, she's probably a genius in animal conditioning. Dolphins don't wear leashes and you can't "choose" who wins the game of tug - you absolutely have to work with them on their terms. I just hope that she does have some significant experience with dogs, as well. A lot of my dog training techniques work really well on children, but I'm not about to go into childcare! : P


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## lrkellly (Jan 6, 2012)

*Thanks*

Thanks!

Based on your advice I decided to go to the last class. Unfortunately ended up having the same problem again...

There was a spoo owner in the class, who has an amazingly beautiful very large 3 year old ... she said her dog behaved the same way at 9 months, and wouldn't obey until about 1.5-2 years. At three he learned everything quickly and willingly.

So, I'm thinking I should just practice the basics, especially those things we want him to learn (to stay when we have visitors and re-call). We're doing really well with getting him to only bark once when he hears a strange noise. He barks once and comes right to us for a pet and a 'good boy'. 

Anyway... to sum up, I'm interested in putting him in more formal training but I'm thinking of waiting until he matures, maybe next fall when he's 1.5 yrs.

Thoughts? Has anyone had experience just 'waiting out' the adolescent years?

Thanks again!!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think classes at this age are more about socialising, and learning to deal with distractions, than formal training. As long as you can keep him from distracting other dogs and owners, and as long as the instructors are happy to have you there, I would continue going - perhaps there are joint walks, or fun classes, you could go to, rather than obedience? I would concentrate more on polite behaviour when out with other dogs at first, and keep the more formal stuff for home where there are few distractions. But it is important for him to be able to relax and listen to you when other dogs and people are around, and the more practice the better.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Good advice here, I am soaking it in for my experiences with Maddy! The thing is, my Maddy is a really challenging dog and it sounds like Sprout way outshines her when it comes to obedience. But we also have Maddy's full sister Indy, who is a born obedience dog--she learns things in one or two repetitions and loves to work and to please. Now if I didn't have Maddy, I too might think there is a formula you follow with dogs, and if you do it right you get a dog like Indy. But obviously not! Everyone needs to be around a Maddy to realize that dogs are really individual...they all have their strengths (I think Maddy is going to be a fantastic agility dog) but no instructor should assume the owner is doing something wrong at home if their dog doesn't respond the way they think they should! What she said would make me mad too, but she may just be inexperienced with a wide range of poodle personalities, to give the instructor the benefit of the doubt. In our current obedience class, the other dogs are a bunch of bullie breeds (which I love, I have to say), some Finnish breed I can't pronounce and a little older poodle mix with a very hyper little boy as the trainer. The bull terriers get quite flustered when they're asked to do something, bark, charge other dogs, and poop. So in that environment, Maddy is the star too! She LOVES it, ha, ha.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

lrkellly said:


> Anyway... to sum up, I'm interested in putting him in more formal training but I'm thinking of waiting until he matures, maybe next fall when he's 1.5 yrs.
> 
> Thoughts? Has anyone had experience just 'waiting out' the adolescent years?


I'd carry on if I were you, but I'm a training junkie :smile: so my advice may be biased.

It really depends on what you are looking to get out of it. If you get frustrated with slow progress, it might be better to wait. But you can just look at it as time with the dog, and work on easy things until he has more focus. Or maybe look to do something else for a while? Agility or flyball or dockdiving or nose work or .... 

There might be something out there that engages him more than straight obedience work.

There is value IMO in building a habit in the dog of working with you. Waiting until he's older won't help with that.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

JE-UK said:


> I'd carry on if I were you, but I'm a training junkie :smile: so my advice may be biased.
> 
> It really depends on what you are looking to get out of it. If you get frustrated with slow progress, it might be better to wait. But you can just look at it as time with the dog, and work on easy things until he has more focus. Or maybe look to do something else for a while? Agility or flyball or dockdiving or nose work or ....
> 
> ...


I agree; plus you might think to yourself, if you keep up the classes, by the time he's 1.5 years old he'll probably have learned a lot! Even if it's more slowly than you think he should be learning, he's still learning. I said to my SO when we signed up Maddy, let's just get a delicious coffee, relax and try to have fun with this thing--we didn't have great expectations because of Maddy's highly distractible, reactive personality. She's doing better than we thought BUT you mentioned Sprout does great at home, which is the whole point!! Anyway, it's up to you. I wish I lived closer to you, we could go together  p.s. when my instructor asked me what kind of dog I had, when I first signed up, I said, "well I'm embarrassed to tell you but I have a standard poodle." She said, standard poodle! They're great at obedience! I said, "that's why I was embarrassed to tell you."


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## lrkellly (Jan 6, 2012)

JE-UK said:


> Or maybe look to do something else for a while? Agility or flyball or dockdiving or nose work or ....
> 
> There might be something out there that engages him more than straight obedience work.
> 
> There is value IMO in building a habit in the dog of working with you. Waiting until he's older won't help with that.


Thanks JE-UK, I might look into flyball. He loves running and moving around, he has so much energy, directing it I think would be a good training experience for both of us!

Indiana: I'm so glad to hear that I'm not the only one with a highly distractible poodle! It _is_ embarrassing as they are supposed to excel at obedience. I'm happy to hear that your attitude is to have fun with it. I think it would have been better if the trainer hadn't been so accusatory...

Would be great to go to obedience together... too bad .


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## Poodle Head (Sep 12, 2011)

My spoo is just a year and we have done puppy K and basic manners. We started an agility for fun class and honestly, the hardest part of the class is getting her to sit!! Luckily we have been with her trainer for other classes, so she knows she knows how. She runs through the course no problem, but getting her to sit/wait at the begining is hilarious. She sits facing the other dogs in the class - not facing the course! When I tell her it's time to go she follows me... but boy does she love to look at the other dogs! I agree with the other posters, keep at it - distractions are frustrating, but very important. Good luck!


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Mine tends to focus in class better if I stop "revising" all the commands that morning before going to class and just have fun with him. Before we go to class, we usually go for a run - no practicing, no training, just run. It's a chance for him to let his energy out and he tends to focus better in class. And also, I always pick a late morning class and we skip breakfast that morning. Oh, and in class (or any high distraction situations), we use a special treats. At home, we train with kibbles.


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## Leooonie (May 30, 2009)

I want to point out that dogs are terrible generalisers unlike people.
what may seem to you as a simple 'sit' ..to a dog may appear much more to do with your position, tone of voice, location... many small things. the best thing you can do is try it in different positions ie sitting on the floor, ona chair, bending over, crouching.. then try in different rooms, in the garden and gradually find other places. this will eventually knock in his head that 'sit' is sitting in any location, in any position. etc etc..
there will obviously be set-backs..

one other suggestion is getting him to LOVE making eye contact with you. that way he will be more inclined to watch you and therefore pay attention to what youd like him to do


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## lrkellly (Jan 6, 2012)

Thanks Schnauzerpoodle and Leoonie,

I appreciate your advice... as it happens with Sprout I did try withholding food before one of the classes, and I took him for an hour long walk at a dog park (where he could play with other dogs) before one of the other classes, neither of these worked! Treats included hot dog pieces, sliced chicken, cheese and hamburger... sigh.

We've also practiced in other locations (indoors, outdoors), and he does fine if I'm sitting or standing over him, or in another room... he's great to obey. He also obeys other people, my boyfriend, my dad, and friends who stop over. 

I'm glad I have an obedient dog, but I definitely have to work on getting him to obey when there are other dogs around. Not an easy task


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