# Ask before you take my dog out!



## LovingCleo (Jun 16, 2014)

I'm frustrated right now. My new son-in-law took Cleo outside (leashed) and jogged with her up and down the drive twice. Our drive is approx 150 yards long. I'm aggravated because Cleo is not his dog and she was only ONE hour since she ate her dinner, and he did not ask! She only had 1 cup of kibble. She is not a fast eater, and she eats rather slowly and nibbles. 

I schooled him about not doing that again, because of the danger of bloat and asking me before he just takes her out. He apologized, but I'm still extremely annoyed.

Cleo is lounging on the couch and relaxing. Still. :argh:


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## Beaches (Jan 25, 2014)

Totally understandable!


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## LovingCleo (Jun 16, 2014)

How long do I have to wait to not be worried about her now?


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

LovingCleo said:


> How long do I have to wait to not be worried about her now?


I wouldn't worry too much. These things happen. Personally my dogs are so active, they are always playing like crazy after they eat before I can intervene and they are fine.


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

I read recently that exercise after eating is not a risk factor for bloat, but I can't remember the article. My dogs do run and play after eating and have never had a problem.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

U lectured him for taking your dog out for a walk? U've gotta be joking. If your SIL was smarter he would have kept right on running. And not come back to such unreasonable paranoia.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I am sure she will be OK.


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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

LovingCleo said:


> at again, because of the danger of bloat and asking me before he just takes her out. He apologized, but I'm still extremely annoyed. :argh:


Ok you "schooled" and he apologized and you're still annoyed? Ummmm....learn to let stuff go! He made a mistake in your eyes, don't hold onto it. Jeesh!


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

Bloat is scary and I think it's OK to be a tiny bit concerned. But you might also want to take a deep breath and look at things from your new Son-in-Law's perspective. He thought he was doing a good thing and I'm almost sure he had no malicious intent. He probably had no idea about the risk of bloat in Poodles, and would never have done it if he knew he might endanger Cleo's life.

My SP boy bloated when he was 3yrs old. I was diligent and aware and got him to the vet so early that the vet didn't even recognize the signs and tried to send us home. My boy was a high-strung, nervous dog who always bolted his food. I had him gastropexied after he bloated so I would have time if he ever bloated again. 

Earnestly, if you're so very concerned about Cleo, maybe you would want to look into having her stomach tacked so you would have a little bit of peace of mind about it?


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## all that jazz (Feb 6, 2011)

If he is a "new" son in law and in his mind he was doing something engaging and fun with the dog, after explaining to him nicely why you would want him to wait after the dog has eaten, I would let it go and give him some slack. He is a super important member of your family and his intentions were good.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I worried about every little thing that happened to/with Lily and Peeves when they were young. I called the vet's office and went to vet appointments that totally weren't necessary in their first two years. I understand wanting to be a great poodle mama, but you aren't really going to enjoy life with your pretty girl if you let everything upset you. 

I do agree that people should ask the owner before doing something new with a dog that isn't theirs, but honestly this didn't seem like such a big thing. I hope you feel better about it all by now.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

If he was my SIL, he would have to recite "I will not take the dog without permission" every time that he came into the house!
When we were first dating, I gave Richard my purse- like bag containing 3.5 pound Tasia while I went to the ladies room, came out and found her bag sitting by itself on top of a table while he stood inline to buy coffee. To this day, 23 years later, he still has to recite "I will not put the bag down, anywhere" every time that I hand him one of the girls in public!


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I agree that you should discuss prophylactic tacking with a qualified vet surgeon who does a lot of those procedures AND apologize to the SIL. He thought he was being helpful and should have asked, but if he tries to research bloat as I have , he won't find conclusive evidence for your no exercise after eating mandate. Not a good place to be as a new MIL. Just explain that you may have overreacted but due to your dog's age and all the unknowns of her genetics, since she was a re-homed cause you to be overly cautious. He can be the hero who forced you to resolve your concerns with the vet.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Jogging with a dog isn't going to give them bloat. I don't know what the most recent studies show, but even when I had a Doberman, also very prone to bloat as a breed, they were saying no hard, fast, excessive exercise right after eating...for about an hour.

If someone in my family decided to take one or all my dogs for a walk on a leash, I'd be ecstatic. I'm such a busy person that it would take a load off my day. I would think they were being very thoughtful of the dog and me if they would take one of them for a walk. As long as they were on a leash and safe, it wouldn't bother me. As it is, my family members aren't likely to put themselves out like that. I'd have to be sick in bed or something for someone to do something that nice for me. LOL. 

I think people in general should ask permission but a close member of the family? Hmmm...I guess I'm more easy going that way. All you'd have to do is explain your concerns about bloat and ask that he check in with you. I don't know why it's such a big deal. I guess we're all different in how we perceive things.



Here is something on bloat: http://www.goldenrescuestlouis.org/Bloat.asp


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

LovingCleo: I thanked your post in that I would not want anyone taking my dog out for a walk without asking first......period. However, I do believe he may not have understood your concern and I would just move past it -- everyone is ok, and hopefully a lesson learned. Hopefully, it won't prevent him from wanting to take the dog out in the future though.


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## Beaches (Jan 25, 2014)

Right on Tiny. Why would anyone simply leave with your dog?.. That would be a issue for me as well.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Beaches said:


> Right on Tiny. Why would anyone simply leave with your dog?.. That would be a issue for me as well.



Yes, the point is not if running after eating causes bloat, the point is - her dog, her choices, because SHE has to live withe consequences! Nobody has the right to take those choices away from her!


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## LovingCleo (Jun 16, 2014)

Seems I need to make some things more clear to some individuals here that assume I screamed and yelled and went off on my SIL. I did not. 

First, I spoke to my entire family about bloat a few weeks ago. I sat and read to them off of a web page devoted to the condition the do's and do not's. How else am I to learn about bloat if I don't read about? A thread in this forum states exercising after eating was a risk. So.....is it not unreasonable for me to ask that it not be done? She's my dog. 

Perhaps the word "schooled" is the wrong word. I spoke to him in normal conversational tone, and once again, explained to him what I've read numerous times. For those that believe I owe him an apology, sorry, but I do not. He owed me one (because he did what I had already asked everyone not to do), and he gave it. Did I accept it? Sure I did. I'm not allowed a cool down period, nor am I allowed to come here and let off a little steam, because I certainly did not to my SIL. I have seen a lot of people blowing off steam here. I've seen people go off on others simply for feeding their dog "the wrong food".

For the most part, i got blasted. Believe me, won't happen again.

Thank you Beaches and Tiny, and any others, for trying to understand me and not rushing to bawl me out.

Poodlebequiled, SIL took Cleo out for a run. Not a walk. Gee, I guess it's such a big deal after reading stories here from other standard owners that lost their dog to bloat. Yeah, pretty heart wrenching read. Do those owners a favor and don't mutter that risk factors are "no big deal."

Countryboy..... again, it was a jog/run. Not a walk. I didn't know you knew me so well as too suggest my SIL never come back. Snarky much?


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

LovingCleo said:


> First, I spoke to my entire family about bloat a few weeks ago. I sat and read to them off of a web page devoted to the condition the do's and do not's.


You read them a web page? All of them? And did they all hear you?



LovingCleo said:


> A thread in this forum states exercising after eating was a risk.


Threads in this forum state that almost everything can lead to bloat. 



LovingCleo said:


> So.....is it not unreasonable for me to ask that it not be done? She's my dog.


It's that element of 'control' that I see... and would be running from.


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## LovingCleo (Jun 16, 2014)

It's a dog forum. Why throw personal attacks? You don't know me, not in a million years. Just stick to the topic, yes?


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

I'm a control freak. (Literally) So I totally get it.

I'd lose my mind if ANYONE did anything with my poodles without asking me first. Except for petting them. Yup. I'm crazy I know...

Some guys, friend of hubby, used to "tease" Lou, by rubbing their hands on her face, pushing her side and making her crazy!!!!! That's when I decided on that rule. You can pet them. That's it. Just pet them. ANYTHING else ask first.

And I'm ALWAYS on the "safe side" 
I know I can't prevent cancer for instance. But EVERYTHING IMAGINABLE THAT I COULD POSSIBLY PREVENT... I'M ON IT!!

I love my babies too much not to give them my best, forever 

Call me crazy dog lady. 
Yes. I. am. And proud of it! 


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

From that link from one study I posted for you to read.



> Several popular theories regarding bloat were not substantiated during the study. *There was no correlation of bloat risk to exercise before or after eating, as most dogs bloated in the middle of the night with an empty, gas-filled stomach.* There was also no correlation to vaccinations, to the brand of dog food consumed, or to the timing or volume of water intake before or after eating. From the research performed to date, we can list several factors that, added together, can characterize the typical dog that develops bloat: a deep and narrow chest; leanness; a relative that has had a bloat episode; eating quickly; a dry-food diet; a single, large daily meal; stress; and a fearful, nervous, or aggressive temperament.


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## janet6567 (Mar 11, 2014)

Cleo's mom was understandably upset about her dog. Whether running after eating causes bloat really isn't the issue. The issue is Cleo's Mom's feelings. I am very protective of my two dogs and would have been annoyed had someone taken then out for a walk without asking me. That's like taking someone's child out without telling the parent. You may disagree with Cleo's Mom and how she handled the situation, but for heaven sakes, she was upset and needed to vent. I don't think making mean comments to her is helpful or necessary. That's just my opinion. . . for what it's worth.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

janet6567 said:


> Cleo's mom was understandably upset about her dog. Whether running after eating causes bloat really isn't the issue. The issue is Cleo's Mom's feelings. I am very protective of my two dogs and would have been annoyed had someone taken then out for a walk without asking me. That's like taking someone's child out without telling the parent. You may disagree with Cleo's Mom and how she handled the situation, but for heaven sakes, she was upset and needed to vent. I don't think making mean comments to her is helpful or necessary. That's just my opinion. . . for what it's worth.


You're right. I just think that the dog is okay. The guy got it explained to him. So, hopefully that will be the end of it and there won't be any hard feelings between the two of them. And while I understand _up to a point_, it's not possible for me to relate 100% because I wouldn't be that upset. It doesn't mean I don't love my dogs because I don't hover or micromanage as much as say, Lou does. It just means I have more confidence that they'll be okay, more confidence in my family members...just not as worried about things I guess. Nothing terrible ever happened to my dogs on account of someone doing something along those lines and I've had dogs for 55 years. So, maybe that's why I feel the way I do. 

So, on a public forum, when something is posted, along come the comments and opinions. You can't expect every single person to think exactly the same way you do. What's the point then, of a forum?


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

I think it's valid, too, to expand the discussion to possible causes of bloat, since concern about exercise was, at least to some extent, the precipitating factor for the initial post.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Countryboy said:


> You read them a web page? All of them? And did they all hear you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



She has every right to control what happens to HER dog! There are very few rights and wrongs in dog rearing - a good owner reads it all decides what is best for their dog, and since they are the one who has to live with the consequences, nobody else should dare try to change those choices for them. Country, you don't think that running after eating is a big deal, but what if your family member did something that you thought was a big deal - like they took your dog out and tried to train them to walk on hot coals or jump through a flaming hoop? Would you think that was cool if they did that without asking you?
My sister in-law once fed Tangee yogurt covered RAISINS (which are toxic) to dogs, and when I told her to stop, she said "a few won't hurt her, and handed her another one! I walked over, took the bowl and dumped it in the trash! Nobody has the right to decide what my dog can eat or do but me, end if story! No, Tangee did not get sick from the raisins that she ate, but maybe she would have given her enough to kill her if I had not stopped her.


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## LovingCleo (Jun 16, 2014)

Poodlebeguiled, I know we won't all have the same opinions, but it would be nice if we could be courteous while expressing them. Not everyone in this thread was. I was wrong for allowing it to get to me, instead of just ignoring those particular comments. 

I appreciate the link you posted. It was very interesting and I am glad to have read it. However, I can paste links that list exercise 1-2 hours before and after eating as a risk factor. 

A family gave me, entrusted me with a beautiful and loving dog. I just want to take good care of her.

I'm glad you understand, Tiny Poodles. My SIL never had a dog while growing up. He loves Cleo, but just doesn't know much about dogs. 

SIL was not intentionally doing anything to alarm me. He's not that kind of young man. We have entrusted him with our daughter  He understands the incident scared me, and my reminding him did no harm to our relationship.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

I would be upset if someone took my dog out without my knowledge/permission. I don't worry so much about bloat, but if anything went wrong - it's me and the dog that pays for it. 

What if the dog got loose and not knowing/respecting the person who borrowed him/her and doesn't respond to a command given for safety sake ie: Come or Down and gets hit by a car or attacked by another dog (very likely scenerios in my neighborhood). In my case, I have a bite sport trained dog who is extremly social but sometimes a bit strongwilled. If he should break loose and accidently scratch someone - he gets put down as dangerous and I get sued. Just a random example, but it's the dog and the dog's owner that pays for any and all mistakes made. 

I am quite sure Cleo's mum wouldn't have minded if he had asked first and maybe delayed the run for an hour - heck, she may have joined them! That would be a great bonding moment for them all. It's the whole issue of not bothering to let her know what was going on that I am guessing truly upset her. 

Hang in there, LovingCleo, I understand.


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## LovingCleo (Jun 16, 2014)

BoarderKelpie, thank you. Add to that, Cleo is deaf. 

I'm very excited about getting our fence put up in a couple of weeks. We had to clear some of our property first, which was done last week.

You are correct, if SIL would have mentioned wanting to take her outside, I would have been fine with that only letting him know she ate within the hour so no running her.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

LovingCleo said:


> BoarderKelpie, thank you. Add to that, Cleo is deaf.
> 
> I'm very excited about getting our fence put up in a couple of weeks. We had to clear some of our property first, which was done last week.
> 
> You are correct, if SIL would have mentioned wanting to take her outside, I would have been fine with that only letting him know she ate within the hour so no running her.


Oh! Deaf to boot! I so very understand now as the mum to two deafies! 

I'm going to steal something from a siggy on another forum (for working/police dogs) that you may help you feel a might better:

*"My dog, my rules."*

I think that says enough, don't you?


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> You're right. I just think that the dog is okay. The guy got it explained to him. So, hopefully that will be the end of it and there won't be any hard feelings between the two of them. And while I understand _up to a point_, it's not possible for me to relate 100% because I wouldn't be that upset. It doesn't mean I don't love my dogs because I don't hover or micromanage as much as say, Lou does. It just means I have more confidence that they'll be okay, more confidence in my family members...just not as worried about things I guess. Nothing terrible ever happened to my dogs on account of someone doing something along those lines and I've had dogs for 55 years. So, maybe that's why I feel the way I do.
> 
> 
> 
> So, on a public forum, when something is posted, along come the comments and opinions. You can't expect every single person to think exactly the same way you do. What's the point then, of a forum?



Without going into details, I had a dog killed when somebody took her out for a walk. When I called my Vet and told him that she had been hit by a car and killed, the first words out of his mouth were "who was she with" He knew it wasn't me.
If you can't learn from other's experiences, and have to have it happen to you before you behave differently, I feel sorry for you - and in this case, feel sorry for your dogs.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

LovingCleo said:


> *Poodlebeguiled, I know we won't all have the same opinions, but it would be nice if we could be courteous while expressing them. * Not everyone in this thread was. I was wrong for allowing it to get to me, instead of just ignoring those particular comments.
> 
> I appreciate the link you posted. It was very interesting and I am glad to have read it. However, I can paste links that list exercise 1-2 hours before and after eating as a risk factor.
> 
> ...


Please show me where I was discourteous. I apologize if I was. But as far as I can see, re-reading my posts, I was merely expressing my opinion or my take on it.

I'm glad that you got it all squared away with your sil.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Without going into details, I had a dog killed when somebody took her out for a walk. When I called my Vet and told him that she had been hit by a car and killed, the first words out of his mouth were "who was she with" He knew it wasn't me.
> If you can't learn from other's experiences, and have to have it happen to you before you behave differently, *I feel sorry for you - and in this case, feel sorry for your dogs.*
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Wow, just wow. Feel sorry for _MY_ dogs? Funny.


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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

LovingCleo said:


> Seems I need to make some things more clear to some individuals here that assume I screamed and yelled and went off on my SIL. I did not.


Well, seems like the telling of the story changed - we merely responded to what you presented and yes, it's a forum, sometimes we get positive feedback, sometimes negative, sometimes helpful, sometimes not so helpful but the key is to reflect on each response and not be defensive - but to reflect and one either affirms or changes their own behavior. 

Good luck with you SIL and pup.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Wow, just wow. Feel sorry for _MY_ dogs? Funny.



In reference to the idea that you won't learn from somebody else's tragedy, yes.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> In reference to the idea that you won't learn from somebody else's tragedy, yes.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I too am a control freak, but not everyone is paranoid about the same thing. I think all the posts have addressed the original poster and we all know all is well with dog, SIL, and Cleo's mom. I too try to protect my dogs as much as possible.

However, we are not all going to agree on everything. To bring up a sore topic as an example, I still use a flexi leash and consider myself a good doggie mommy even though there are lots of examples of accidents that happened with dogs on flexi leash. We should respect each person's right to determine what is a big deal for her/hisself at least on this forum (I still reserve my right to tell my DH what is a big deal).

I think Poodlebeguiled's dogs are in safe hands. JMO.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> In reference to the idea that you won't learn from somebody else's tragedy, yes.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



So, let me get this straight. You're implying that my dogs have a rotten life and you feel sorry for them because I might let my sensible daughter or someone else I trust in my family take them for a walk? Or because I don't lock them up in an apartment and never let then run around and be dogs if there is a remote risk to them? It's not like I let them go play in traffic. It's not like I've never_ heard _of accidents or dangers. This is insulting!

I managed to keep my dogs and myself alive and well when living in an extreme, pristine wilderness area of north Idaho for over 10 years...hiking daily and living right in grizzly and black bear territory, moose and cougar abounding, poisonous plants deep in old growth forests in the Selkirk mountains. I leaned how to watch for bear signs, how to track and recognize different animal tracks and how to survive in the wilderness, in part by being very aware of my surroundings.

I think my dogs will be all right living in suburbia, thank you. I've never lost a dog yet to an accident in the 55 years I've owned dogs. I've probably forgotten more about animal husbandry than a lot of people will ever know. I don't think I need you to educate me on how to keep my dogs safe and happy or how to use common sense. And don't anyone dare tell me_ I'm _"discourteous!"

This is neurotic. I can not continue this conversation.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> So, let me get this straight. You're implying that my dogs have a rotten life and you feel sorry for them because I might let my sensible daughter or someone else I trust in my family take them for a walk? Or because I don't lock them up in an apartment and never let then run around and be dogs if there is a remote risk to them? It's not like I let them go play in traffic. It's not like I've never_ heard _of accidents or dangers. This is insulting!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nope, not at all implying that your dogs have a rotten life - I know that they have a great life and you are a great owner.
I simply said that you do them a disservice by thinking that because something has never happened to you before, it means that you don't have to worry about it or consider it. I believe that it would be wiser to learn from others experience and realize that something CAN happen, and utilize that in your decision making process. I have no problem with whatever you decide to do with YOUR dogs - they are your dogs, your rules!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Nope, not at all implying that your dogs have a rotten life - I know that they have a great life and you are a great owner.
> *I simply said that you do them a disservice by thinking that because something has never happened to you before, it means that you don't have to worry about it or consider it. *I believe that it would be wiser to learn from others experience and realize that something CAN happen, and utilize that in your decision making process. I have no problem with whatever you decide to do with YOUR dogs - they are your dogs, your rules!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


*Come on, muster up a little imagination here. Do you really think I've gone through life, living where I lived in particular without considering what can happen? And taking any possible and reasonable steps to ensure my dogs' and my safety? Puleeze. Stop being so insulting. 
And some eye candy. Yep, risks here. But I wouldn't have missed it for the world. *


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Ok at first I thought this was a little dramatic and kept my distance. But now with seeing a bigger look at the situation (and some of he extremely rude comments) I completely understand where LovingCleo is coming from. I totally understand the feeling of someone, even a close relative, doing something with your dog you asked them not to. Heck! That happened to me a few years ago and it didn't end well. It was something as simple as my mother letting the dogs out of the kennel (after I repeatedly asked them to never do). Well guess what happened. It ended up with the love of my life (Carmel, my first Tpoo) going outside and getting killed by my neighbors pit mix! Did she expect this to happen? No. Was she full of good intentions? Yes, she figured it was mean to keep them locked up in the crate while I was gone. Does she regret it to this day? Yes. Will she ever do it again? Hell No! Not unless I give permission to do so and even then if they leave her sight they go right back into the crate. Unfortunately my family had to learn this lesson in one of the worst ways possible. I am so relieved to hear that LovingCleo's sil was able to learn the same lesson without any tragedy. Oh and if I was bad before having a special needs dog makes everything twice as bad! I can't leave her side without worrying about her! 


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

It would depend on who took my dogs... my mom or husband could without asking and I would be happy the dogs were taken out to have some fun. I would trust that they know the dogs, the dogs know them and everyone would be safe and happy. But if my own daughter took them, I would not be mad, but I would tell her not to do that again. I would not feel as comfortable with her. She does not know all of Stella's little tricks and I would fear that she might let her get into trouble, or come out of her collar ect.


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## sweetheartsrodeo (Sep 19, 2012)

In reading this whole thread, I have to say thank you, because you have reminded me how blessed I am. My mom is the only one who can take my dogs out, and most the time they look to me for an okay before they go anywhere... Remington won't let anyone put a leash on him unless I am there, nor will he leave me, even when we are at home... 

Bloat is very serious, and something that all spoo owners should worry about. So if one is worried, have a talk with your vet. I know that it put my mind at ease when I did. 

Best wishes to all and their poodle babies!


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## LovingCleo (Jun 16, 2014)

GeriDe said:


> Well, seems like the telling of the story changed - we merely responded to what you presented and yes, it's a forum, sometimes we get positive feedback, sometimes negative, sometimes helpful, sometimes not so helpful but the key is to reflect on each response and not be defensive - but to reflect and one either affirms or changes their own behavior.
> 
> Good luck with you SIL and pup.



No, the story did not change. I obviously used a word (schooled) that denotes a stronger action than 
what went on. I was firm and serious, because it worried me and in the process had to talk to him once again about the bloat issue. To educate someone, to school someone. Whatever. My story did not change.

Thanks so much. I have a great relationship with my SIL. Since he never grew up having a dog, he looks to me to teach him a lot about dog ownership, because he and my daughter want to have their own poodle one day. He loves Cleo too.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I'd be po'd too if someone did something with my dog that I had specifically asked him not to. I didn't get that you had already told him not to take the dog for a walk without permission before. I meant that if someone in my family just took my dog for a walk without asking me, I'd think they were being helpful. That's just me. I'm not worried about my dogs on a leash with say, my daughter or her Dad or my son because they're the only ones that would have that opportunity and they're all smart enough to not do something stupid with them. BUT if I had told them not to ever do that without asking...and they did...then I wouldn't like it either. So I see now that you had told him about bloat and exercise and he didn't think....Okay, so then you talked to him. And now, presumably, he gets it and won't do it again. So, are you now comfortable with that? Do I have it all straight?


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## LovingCleo (Jun 16, 2014)

A few weeks ago I read to them off of a web page about bloat. It listed all the risk factors. (I understand many do not agree with some of those factors, and I can respect that.)

SIL took her out without my knowledge and ran her. He came in and told me. He forgot about our prior discussion. It had been an hour since she last ate. If he would have at least let me know he wanted to take her out, I would have told him she ate an hour earlier and to please just not run her, but sure - I would not have minded him taking her outside for a walk. 

I'm confident he understands the bloat issue now.


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

LovingCleo said:


> No, the story did not change. I obviously used a word (schooled) that denotes a stronger action than
> what went on. I was firm and serious, because it worried me and in the process had to talk to him once again about the bloat issue. To educate someone, to school someone. Whatever. My story did not change.
> 
> Thanks so much. I have a great relationship with my SIL. Since he never grew up having a dog, he looks to me to teach him a lot about dog ownership, because he and my daughter want to have their own poodle one day. He loves Cleo too.



I am just adding this. I have no opinion on the thread in general. However, taking this into consideration will help you understand the source of the misunderstanding. 

The definition of schooled:

Taught a lesson (the hard way), to lose humiliatingly.



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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

hopetocurl said:


> I am just adding this. I have no opinion on the thread in general. However, taking this into consideration will help you understand the source of the misunderstanding.
> 
> The definition of schooled:
> 
> Taught a lesson (the hard way), to lose humiliatingly.


here's my apple dictionary definition: train or discipline (someone) in a particular skill or activity: _he *schooled* her *in* horsemanship | it's important to *school yourself* to be good at exams._

not to argue here, but the meaning of the word may well differ depending on the user. reminds me of winston churchill describing americans and the english as "two great peoples separated by a common language." closer to home, many eons ago, an english prof at my university told the story of misunderstandings in his marriage created partly by his and his wife's different origins - they were from different states in the u.s.!


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

So much of communication is intonation of voice and body language.....it is inevitable misunderstandings happen when we are limited to the written word and emoticons! 

Personally, right now I wish someone would come and walk my dogs because it's 90 degrees out and I don't want to leave the air conditioning- but the dogs are bouncing off the walls ready to go! My SIL, DIL, Anybody.....please come walk these crazy dogs tonight!!!! 

But I totally get your concern for Cleo's health. I have other things that are probably over the top to some people, like I have to home cook the dog food, and Max gets acupuncture and chiropractic treatments, and they all have multiple collars for different seasons, holidays, etc. These examples are just the tip of the iceberg. I am very aware that some of my friends and family think I am a little nuts.....and I don't care. There are worse things to be obsessed with!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> *Come on, muster up a little imagination here. Do you really think I've gone through life, living where I lived in particular without considering what can happen? And taking any possible and reasonable steps to ensure my dogs' and my safety? Puleeze. Stop being so insulting.
> 
> And some eye candy. Yep, risks here. But I wouldn't have missed it for the world. *



I was just responding to what you said. I have not shared your life with you.


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## LovingCleo (Jun 16, 2014)

patk said:


> here's my apple dictionary definition: train or discipline (someone) in a particular skill or activity: _he *schooled* her *in* horsemanship | it's important to *school yourself* to be good at exams._
> 
> not to argue here, but the meaning of the word may well differ depending on the user. reminds me of winston churchill describing americans and the english as "two great peoples separated by a common language." closer to home, many eons ago, an english prof at my university told the story of misunderstandings in his marriage created partly by his and his wife's different origins - they were from different states in the u.s.!


Excellent! I quoted you because it needs to be posted again.


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

patk said:


> here's my apple dictionary definition: train or discipline (someone) in a particular skill or activity: _he *schooled* her *in* horsemanship | it's important to *school yourself* to be good at exams._
> 
> not to argue here, but the meaning of the word may well differ depending on the user. reminds me of winston churchill describing americans and the english as "two great peoples separated by a common language." closer to home, many eons ago, an english prof at my university told the story of misunderstandings in his marriage created partly by his and his wife's different origins - they were from different states in the u.s.!



Well, I was using urbandictionary.com which is more of the street definition.... And likely the one that most people interpreted. But, I agree it depends on a lot of things. I was simply posting to illustrate why some felt like she went overboard... They use the common definition. 

See, this is what happens when we use terms like this and we are older than .... ahem .... Teens. 



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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

LovingCleo said:


> No, the story did not change. I obviously used a word (schooled) that denotes a stronger action than
> what went on. I was firm and serious, because it worried me and in the process had to talk to him once again about the bloat issue. To educate someone, to school someone. Whatever. My story did not change.
> 
> Thanks so much. I have a great relationship with my SIL. Since he never grew up having a dog, he looks to me to teach him a lot about dog ownership, because he and my daughter want to have their own poodle one day. He loves Cleo too.


You did not share with the forum that you had previously talked to your family, read them web site pages and a few other details that came out later. THAT is what I am referring to. I will exit not, I do not enjoy conversation with defensive people. And yes, you may have the last word, I've been effectively schooled.


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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

hopetocurl said:


> Well, I was using urbandictionary.com which is more of the street definition.... And likely the one that most people interpreted. But, I agree it depends on a lot of things. I was simply posting to illustrate why some felt like she went overboard... They use the common definition.
> 
> See, this is what happens when we use terms like this and we are older than .... ahem .... Teens.
> 
> ...


Anyone can enter a definition of any word, slang or nonsense word on Urban Dictionary but it does provide a different perspective.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

*Time to move on folks*

The OP did clarify early on what her conversation with her family had been. It is nonsense like this (where the OP probably isn't even paying attention anymore) that drives people away from PF. Each of us is entitled to our own opinion (even though sometimes threads like this one has started sinking towards makes one wonder). Each of us is entitled to live in our homes and have real world relationships of our choosing. I think it is time for the people who keep saying they are done to really be done. Let the OP enjoy her special dog and her family as she sees fit. I am sure she won't be so trusting to vent here about something that bothers her in the future. I only hope she will share her progress with Cleo (who remember is deaf and a rescue (I believe)) with us since I would find it interesting to see how she works with her.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Amen!!!!!!!! (Lily cd re)

Drama drama drama, some people just LUV it eh??!

They "need to" cause discord, trouble, they love inflicting emotional and psychological "discomfort" on others

"Sickos" if ya ask me!! ... Jeez!!

I'm so glad this is an online deal and I can shut it off at ANY point as I please!! Soooooo glad I don't actually have to coexist with some of these miserably unhappy annoying "got nuthin' better to do - evil people"

Good night y'all !! And to all of you loving caring members, thank you for being/staying in this forum, and helping so many people with things that actually matter and for making a POSITIVE difference in lives of poodles and people! 







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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

> Tiny Poodles;1277018]I was just responding to what you said. I have not shared your life with you.


And what did I say? That I would be happy if one of _my_ family members took _my_ dogs for a walk. And you spun that into implying that I don't give enough thought or concern about what possible eventualities might occur, what risks there are in such an act...that you _feel sorry for my dogs_ and me because I am not careful enough if I would let someone else take my dogs for a walk. You compared that to an accident you had happen when someone else took your dog for a walk. Accidents happen. They can happen in all kinds of ways. Wrapping a dog up in a plastic bubble is neurotic. It's some need of a person like that to compensate for some other thing. Let's face it. It's irrational. Not the fact that someone doesn't want someone to take their dog for a walk. But thinking everyone else should be as worried about that same thing, that everyone else is careless and not worried enough if they think it's okay to let someone else take their dog for a walk. 

I take my son's dog for a walk all the time when he's too busy working. My ex takes my dogs for a walk sometimes, my daughter...what's there to worry about? Do you mean that only the dog's owner (like you) is able to prevent a dog from being hit by a car when out on a leash walk? Like it happened to you? You state that your vet "knew" that it couldn't have been you. So now you figure that anyone else but you will run a big risk of having your dog hit by a car?

While I can understand some people not wanting a family member, trusted or not to take their dog for a walk, that they're worried, that's not me. I'm not worried about something like that...not with the people in my family. They're not stupid. 

I might be more careful about other things, but not taking a dog for a walk on a leash. That just isn't something I find very risky. I live on a very quiet street and it's just around the block that anyone might walk them...on sidewalks.

Before the puppies were taught to not bolt out the front door, I was intensely careful about that. I put them in their pen any time that door was opened and was reminding my family visitors to also not open the front door without putting them in their pen first or closing them in another room first or having someone hold them. Constantly. Very careful about that. Now, they have learned to stay back and never go out without being on a leash or being given the ok. I'm careful about what they eat, what they get into inside and outside, careful and worried about eagles. Or other big dogs we might come close to that I don't know. I pick them up or avoid them until I know for sure. And my family knows those dangers too and they're careful. If they made a mistake and an accident happened, that would be terrible. I'd probably get mad if it were something really stupid. So I get that. I just didn't see why taking a dog for a leash walk was so terrible. 

The bloat thing, from where the OP stood, was a legitimate concern. (even though exercise is not currently thought to cause bloat. They use to say excessive, violent exercise was thought to cause bloat and a human can't run fast enough for a leashed, larger dog to run fast enough to be excessive exercise...more like a trot) But I didn't read about her telling the sil not to take the dog for a walk or bloat or whatever, not at first. Sure, if you give instructions not to do something and someone disregards that, it's not good. I can respect that. 

What I have an issue with is someone insulting me and implying that my dogs are to be pitied because I don't learn from you and your "monumental" mistake for letting someone else besides you take your dog for a walk, that it is a very dangerous thing to do, that we all might wind up with killed dogs if we let someone else walk our dogs. That is somehow you blaming yourself, some guilt thing over your dog. It is not your fault that an accident happened. Something could happen when you walk your dog. A car could jump the curb, a city bus could go too close and knock you with the mirror. I have a niece in law or some such relative in Czech Republic whose toy Poodle got hit by a police car rounding the corner and right over the cross walk. Shi! happens and we can't always prevent it. Being careful is good but you can't sit there and worry over everything. You can't control everything. Well, I can't. I won't live that way.


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

GeriDe said:


> Anyone can enter a definition of any word, slang or nonsense word on Urban Dictionary but it does provide a different perspective.


I know, but, it is usually spot-on for pop culture.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Lou said:


> Amen!!!!!!!! (Lily cd re)
> 
> Drama drama drama, some people just LUV it eh??!
> 
> ...


Lou, I think you are a very caring person, but if you don't realize you are very much a drama queen and that you also give negative responses at times, then you need to take a little time for self reflection (how many exclamation marks did you use?). 

Especially categorizing people as "sickos" or "evil" is a bit much (unless, of course, you just LUV drama).

I had not planned to continue responding to this thread but some of your comments just pushed my buttons.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Um, I was going to leave this discussion too, but...

Is there a way we can all understand that we all have opinions and all of our opinions are based in whatever experiences we have had and that everyone experiences things differently and that we all are rather passionate about our dogs (that's why we are here after all, right?). We all also 'hear' things differently due to interpretation and differences in culture etc. 

Can we just try to be as civil as our poodles (and other wonderful breeds represented here)? This request is from the person who is owned by probably the biggest bully poodle on this forum, too.  (I admit it, Bug is a bully, ok, ok, there is also a chance that I *may* be known in real life as opinionated/bullyish myself at times).
Thanks.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Now isn't this really enough already? If any of you takes exception to something someone said that you feel misinterpreted your POV or offended you why don't you PM each other and work it out?


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> Now isn't this really enough already? If any of you takes exception to something someone said that you feel misinterpreted your POV or offended you why don't you PM each other and work it out?



UHG! I agree with Lilly, let it go or take it to PM's. I love ya'll and respect yawls opinions and responses but this bickering/ arguing gets annoying. 


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

This used to be such a peaceful place.... For about a whole year... But lately.... 


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

> fo·rum noun \ˈfȯr-əm\
> 
> : a meeting at which a subject can be discussed
> 
> ...


*Suggestion: If you don't want to analyze, discuss, debate a topic or opinions of the discussion, then skip it and try another thread and see if that one suits you better. If a rule has been broken, there are moderators for that. Telling people to shut up or else agree with each and every one just to keep it all peachy is not what a forum is about. *

*If someone feels attacked but lines haven't been crossed enough to bring on the police, then that person ought to have the right to speak out. And if the person who thinks that person is this way or that, let them say it. But don't expect everything to come to a halt without giving the chance for someone to explain. Pms are great but to leave something hanging where the person might feel he/she is being publicly slandered, for instance, he or she ought to have a chance to try to explain so everyone can see and perhaps get it clarified. No one made any direct, blatantly rude, name-calling type attacks. And as I understand it, that's against the rules.*


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## exile (Dec 15, 2013)

If there are any active moderators on this forum, may I suggest, this subject has certainly run its course and should be closed...


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I agree.


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

I feel the way you worded it on here made people imagine you flipped out on your SIL over a simple mistake. Of course, its your right to have rules about your dog! Did you over react? I dunno, I was not there. I also want to say I would not have been upset about it myself, but in ALL honesty I probably would have reacted exactly the same if not worse..lol I'm extremely controlling about my dog, and bloat is a huge feat that always is hanging in the back of my mind. My spoo eats fast and is extremely active, and I'm constantly panicking because she likes to scarf her food and then take off outside and run laps around the yard(which I do not allow her to get away with). I won't even leave my spoo home with my husband and son alone because I'm so afraid that one of them will let her out and then leave her in the yard which could give her the oopertunity to dig her way out and get lost, stolen or hit by a car. I spent 3 years looking for the perfect breeder and paid a pretty penny for my spoo, I have also invested 1000s in her show career, so yes, I can be extremely over protective to the point of irrationality sometimes, but it is my right because she is my dog, so all and all. I completely understand where you are coming from.

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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

lily cd re said:


> The OP did clarify early on what her conversation with her family had been. It is nonsense like this (where the OP probably isn't even paying attention anymore) that drives people away from PF. Each of us is entitled to our own opinion (even though sometimes threads like this one has started sinking towards makes one wonder). Each of us is entitled to live in our homes and have real world relationships of our choosing. I think it is time for the people who keep saying they are done to really be done. Let the OP enjoy her special dog and her family as she sees fit. I am sure she won't be so trusting to vent here about something that bothers her in the future. I only hope she will share her progress with Cleo (who remember is deaf and a rescue (I believe)) with us since I would find it interesting to see how she works with her.


You are right and I apologize for being snarky.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

well i started out agreeing with exile that closing the thread would be a good idea. but, without having read all posts but having heard about a few, i think there's a difference between taking potshots at others and shooting oneself in the foot. i am for freedom to shoot oneself in the foot. on top of that, if the thread had been closed, geri de would not have had an opportunity to be gracious. i am all for opportunities to be gracious and even more for people who seize it. good on you, geri de.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

This thread has been reported a few times... I've read through most of the posts and I haven't seen anything specifically breaking the rules, however the tone has approached a point where people are uncomfortable enough to report it.

I'm not going to close or delete this thread because there is some good information here - I'm just going to ask that everyone try to refrain from causing the tone to be uncomfortable for other members. 

If I continue to get new reports because of any new comments that might break the rules I'll reconsider closing or deleting, but right now I'm just asking you to play nice. 

Barb Plum
Moderator


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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

patk said:


> well i started out agreeing with exile that closing the thread would be a good idea. but, without having read all posts but having heard about a few, i think there's a difference between taking potshots at others and shooting oneself in the foot. i am for freedom to shoot oneself in the foot. on top of that, if the thread had been closed, geri de would not have had an opportunity to be gracious. i am all for opportunities to be gracious and even more for people who seize it. good on you, geri de.


Meh! I get a little snarky from time to time, it's my "winning" personality. When I realize I may have gone too far, I back up. I tend to be a shoot from the hip sorta person and I take it shot back at me with ease but I also reflect. If the thread had been closed, my apology would have been sent privately (and was).

Hell, we're all human and passionate about our dogs among other things. Truth is, this whole thing took a U turn and it just became what it became. Anywho... It's not so hard to say sorry - It's just hard to say it and mean it. I'd rather not read an apology that is not sincere. :yield:


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Y'all know that I have jumped into just about every thread on bloat with a strange attitude. Even I have felt uncomfortable urging patience and rationale with something that can kill a dog quicker than anything but poison. 

But I do it for a reason. The level of drama seems to reach it's apex in a bloat thread. To the point where people see the possibility of bloat everywhere. And are so terrified of it that strange things start happening. Like assuming that internet guesses are true... and to be avoided at all costs. And then they pass this 'knowledge' on to others. :banghead: 

Maybe I'm a bit of a fatalist. 'Coz we've heard of just about every tragedy imaginable in a few years of Poodle Forum. I like to be aware of these incidents, but choose not to live my life bound by the direst circumstances that may occur. Avoiding every such possibility comes at too high a cost for me. I like to leave Tonka as free as possible, constrained as little as possible.

IMO, if u have a Poodle, u have possibility of bloat. From where?... no one knows. And that's the bottom line... no one knows. Not even me or you.


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

Countryboy said:


> I like to be aware of these incidents, but choose not to live my life bound by the direst circumstances that may occur. Avoiding every such possibility comes at too high a cost for me. I like to leave Tonka as free as possible, constrained as little as possible.
> 
> IMO, if u have a Poodle, u have possibility of bloat. From where?... no one knows. And that's the bottom line... no one knows. Not even me or you.


Amen, Countryboy. Avoiding every risk isn't possible, and trying to consumes entirely too much energy for my taste. I want my dogs to be dogs, which involves letting them run free. They may get into a yellowjacket nest, they may run into a skunk, they may get leptospirosis because they drink from the creek or get some other disease because they eat deer poop, they may (my biggest fear) get lost. But I think I'm using reasonable caution. They run free in an isolated area, never without supervision, Jazz has good recall and the pup stays with her, they've had their vaccinations, and none of the terrible possibilities has happened. They still might, of course, but the dogs are having a wonderful life, and I don't want to take that away from them. 

As for bloat, for years we fed out Lab from a raised bowl and moistened his kibble. Now those are thought to be two risk factors for bloat. As you say, no one knows with certainty what the cause is. I'm aware of the signs, I'll act immediately if I see them. Until then, I'm not going to worry about it.


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## BeckyM (Nov 22, 2013)

I agree with Countryboy and appreciate his no-drama, shoot from the hip perspective  

I try to raise Polly the way I raise my children... without "worst first" thinking. That's a phrase I take from "Free-Range Kids" ... meaning jumping to the worst possible scenario in every single situation. Now, when Polly was new, I fell victim to the new parent syndrome of worrying about everything like I did when I had my daughter but now that she's getting older, I'm trusting my gut more and backing away from being a "helicopter mom" (that hovers over the child). Yes, Polly and all dogs need proper food and care but like with my children, I can't worry about every single thing or life isn't worth living. I chose to spend my time doing other things knowing that yes, something bad may happen, but worrying about the potentially bad thing takes away from the good times before and afterward. 

So, yes, I have Trupanion insurance for Polly so if an emergency happens, we're ready but I don't sit around worrying about emergencies. Life's too short for that kind of stress.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

there is a thread about gastropexy in the poodle talk forum.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

JudyD said:


> Amen, Countryboy. Avoiding every risk isn't possible, and trying to consumes entirely too much energy for my taste. I want my dogs to be dogs, which involves letting them run free. They may get into a yellowjacket nest, they may run into a skunk, they may get leptospirosis because they drink from the creek or get some other disease because they eat deer poop, they may (my biggest fear) get lost. But I think I'm using reasonable caution. They run free in an isolated area, never without supervision, Jazz has good recall and the pup stays with her, they've had their vaccinations, and none of the terrible possibilities has happened. They still might, of course, but the dogs are having a wonderful life, and I don't want to take that away from them.
> 
> As for bloat, for years we fed out Lab from a raised bowl and moistened his kibble. Now those are thought to be two risk factors for bloat. As you say, no one knows with certainty what the cause is. I'm aware of the signs, I'll act immediately if I see them. Until then, I'm not going to worry about it.


:adore::adore::adore:


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Worrying calms me down.
Wow that sounds like it makes no sense!  (but it makes perfect sense to me)

My point is... 
I personally like to worry!  and go through possible scenarios in my head (once! and quickly) and make a decision on a standard procedure for that particular type of occurrence. 
It's labor intensive at first (puppyhood) then it just becomes an auto-pilot safety procedure. 

Example:

One procedure is : dogs are not allowed to walk outside unless I ask "wanna go outside?" first. 
If I just open the door and don't say it they stand there and look at me and won't cross that line. 

There are a million of these "auto-pilot-procedures" I have come up with. 

It is MY personality.. I can be quite annoying. I'm glad my husband puts up with it  like the little rule: "wallet, cellphone, keys" before walking out the door.. Etc etc etc etc etc etc...

It makes my life soooo much easier!

I LOVE control... Like I said "worrying calms me down" cause I know if something bad happens at least I tried my best.

I'm not trying to say you should be like me... But I am saying that if you ARE like me it's ok. And if you AREN'T it's ok  it's a choice. I try my best to respect people's choices even if I disagree. But I like to "share" ideas because we can all learn something useful, everyday... 

I think we should respect the OP, since no abuse/neglect/crime happened. 

But that's just me.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I do that too a little bit...but I don't spend a lot of time worrying. I take precautions, think what could happen and make a plan. But I don't think endless worrying is healthy so I refuse to spend much time on that. I wouldn't be able to enjoy all the things I do if I were worrying while I'm trying to do them. lol. To each his own. My mother is a compulsive worrier. I think in her case, it makes her feel like she's doing something productive. lol.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Lou said:


> Worrying calms me down.
> Wow that sounds like it makes no sense!  (but it makes perfect sense to me)
> 
> My point is...
> ...


I don't think that teaching your dog not to go outside unless you say the magic words is "worrying." You are just training your dog, and I can see the usefulness of that particular command.

Looks like you have also trained your husband very well. I tell my DH it is the job of very wife to nag their husband because married men live longer than single men because of their wife telling them to take care of themselves. It may not be true, but I say it anyway.

PS - I don't think this thread is much about the op anymore.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

MiniPoo said:


> I don't think that teaching your dog not to go outside unless you say the magic words is "worrying." You are just training your dog, and I can see the usefulness of that particular command.
> 
> Looks like you have also trained your husband very well. I tell my DH it is the job of very wife to nag their husband because married men live longer than single men because of their wife telling them to take care of themselves. It may not be true, but I say it anyway.
> 
> PS - I don't think this thread is much about the op anymore.



HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Thanks for the belly laugh!! I'm about to tell him "he has been TRAINED well by me!! He is soooo NOT gonna like to hear that!!  

But I do make him think it was "HIS idea" all the time LOL 

And bless his heart... I do get on his nerves a lot LOL but hey!

"Married man live longer!" - Genius!!!! I'm totally gonna use that one!!)

Hugs to ya!  







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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

MiniPoo said:


> *I don't think that teaching your dog not to go outside unless you say the magic words is "worrying." You are just training your dog, and I can see the usefulness of that particular command.*
> Looks like you have also trained your husband very well. I tell my DH it is the job of very wife to nag their husband because married men live longer than single men because of their wife telling them to take care of themselves. It may not be true, but I say it anyway.
> 
> PS - I don't think this thread is much about the op anymore.


Exactly my sentiments.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

MiniPoo said:


> I don't think that teaching your dog not to go outside unless you say the magic words is "worrying." You are just training your dog, and I can see the usefulness of that particular command.
> 
> .


Well..... I HAD TO WORRY FIRST.
(They could get lost, cross the street in front of a car...... )

(The law of cause-and-effect  Hahahaha)

AND "THEN" COME UP WITH the PROCEDURE 
(The "wanna go outside-command" )

So.. Worrying rocks!! It brings about solutions to problems that don't even exist yet!!! Hahahaha
Okay okay.. now I'm getting way outta line here... 

I love to overthink and philosophy about everything, but sometimes I do tie my own brain in a knot! But it's fun 

My husband says, and I quote: 

"You just get creative with ways to justify your own insanity"

Hahahahahahshsha


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

MiniPoo said:


> I don't think that teaching your dog not to go outside unless you say the magic words is "worrying." You are just training your dog, and I can see the usefulness of that particular command.
> 
> Looks like you have also trained your husband very well. I tell my DH it is the job of very wife to nag their husband because married men live longer than single men because of their wife telling them to take care of themselves. It may not be true, but I say it anyway.
> 
> *PS - I don't think this thread is much about the op anymore.*


So why are we still on it?


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

lily cd re said:


> So why are we still on it?


Because some threads have a life of their own. The op was just ranting but people have taken sides to whether she should have yelled at her sil. I guess people aren't done voting. Maybe it is still about her. It is more fun when we branch away from topic.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

The problem with that is if our bickering chases her away. I think she is a sensible person from what I can see and I hope she isn't taking it personally.


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

Lou (and with apologies to the OP), I don't want you to think I don't worry. I'm perfectly capable of obsessing for hours (usually starting somewhere around 2:00 a.m.) about things that are inconsequential in the light of day. Normally this doesn't include my dogs, unless I've been impatient with them. Then I can beat myself up all night for being a bad companion person. :crazy:


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## LovingCleo (Jun 16, 2014)

MiniPoo said:


> Because some threads have a life of their own. The op was just ranting but people have taken sides to whether she should have yelled at her sil. I guess people aren't done voting. Maybe it is still about her. It is more fun when we branch away from topic.


*sigh* I did not "yell" at my SIL. 
The thread was supposed to be about Cleo and bloat. If you care to go back and re-read, you'll see I even asked a question. Instead of answers, I got blow back from several people that assumed I yelled or pretend that they were in my living room. You see, I can "school", "educate" in a calm tone. Perhaps many here are unable to "school" or "educate" in a calm tone, but they yell and scream and stomp. I do not. I get here and make less than 10 post and many of you think you know me inside and out. 

Glad to see you're having fun with the thread though


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## LovingCleo (Jun 16, 2014)

lily cd re said:


> The problem with that is if our bickering chases her away. I think she is a sensible person from what I can see and I hope she isn't taking it personally.


Lily cd - not chased away.  

There is much knowledge about poodles here, and I appreciate it. That's why I'm here. I must be honest, I was quite surprised at what happened in this thread. It did not have to take that kind of turn. I can tell you this, I will never post another "rant" "worry" "concern" "vent" thread again. Live and learn!  If I have a concern, I will pm you, Lily cd. You've been very kind.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Lovingcleo I am glad to see you have a sense of humor about this. I almost hate to ask, but is a helpful answer to your question buried in here somewhere? I do seem to recall that at least one person did try to address risks for bloat.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I can get us back on topic!

LovingCleo, I had a standard poodle bloat with torsion 4 years ago. It was terrifying. I remember crying in the waiting room because we didn't know if we would ever see him again. He was only 23 months old and I felt like there were so many more years I wanted to spend with him. He ended up being fine because we had recognized it so quickly, but having that first hand experience with bloat really affected us.

I consider myself to be reasonably cautious in regards to bloat. I will take my dogs for a walk before and after meals. If it is hot outside, I will make sure they are cooled off and not panting before eating. They tend to get pretty playful in the house after they eat, and I don't usually interfere. I would probably feel fairly safe going for a jog an hour after a meal. I do avoid heavy exercise an hour before and after meals - but to be honest - I really don't exercise them that hard anyway, ha!

Another point I want to make is that with each additional dog I've lived with/owned, I have become much more able to determine if something really is panic worthy or if it isn't. I've found that this has really enabled me to enjoy my dogs in a way that I didn't necessarily in the past. So, I think that it is understandable that you were really worried, but I don't think that your dog was in any real danger of bloat.


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## LovingCleo (Jun 16, 2014)

lily cd re, absolutely! My concerns were addressed and my question answered. 

CharismaticMillie, thank you for sharing your experience. From what you said, and from a previous comment earlier in the thread, I can see it's important to just know your dog. Take reasonable precautions and then when something is really off (because you've been learning about your dog), you can then act quickly. 

I believe I will take your approach as well, because it's something I'm comfortable with.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Yeah, being able to read the dog is what I was thinking about when I noted how much more I call my vet in the first two years of Lily and Peeves' lives. It took time for them to grow up and for me to know them well enough to read what was really a problem and what wasn't.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

if bloat is a serious concern (and owners do vary), the owner may want to consider whether or not capable emergency care is in fact available 24/7. whether one can read one's dogs or not, not having care available when needed is a factor. i think that may be one reason to consider gastropexy.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

patk said:


> if bloat is a serious concern (and owners do vary), the owner may want to consider whether or not capable emergency care is in fact available 24/7. whether one can read one's dogs or not, not having care available when needed is a factor. i think that may be one reason to consider gastropexy.


I think this is a very good point. This is the biggest reason we are considering gastropexy. We travel a lot, and Hans goes with us. While there is a good emergency clinic within a reasonable distance where we live, there is always the possibility of something happening while we are somewhere else, so who knows what would be available.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

patk you are so right about having access to emergency care. If you read your dog as sick but have no place to go, some other form of peace of mind would go a long way. I have not had either dog gastropexied but I also have three 24/7 emergency vet facilities within 20 minutes of me to choose from. We are very lucky to have them. One of them has a friend as one of the overnight DRs.

My main bloat reduction strategy is based on another stroke of luck we enjoy which is that neither Lily nor Peeves is a gluttonous eater. They are both grazers so they free feed and never have an overfull stomach. I just hope that when we add a new dog we will be lucky enough to be able to continue that feeding strategy.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

I'm also think dog CPR and Heimlich manouver (etc) are important things to learn if you (like me) worry about stuff ... 




Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

In the continuing education department at my college there is a pet first aid and cpr class. As the person (office down the hall from me) who teaches it says there is no ambulance service for your dog. Saving a pet's life is on what the owner does when something starts.


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