# What would be the best way to do this? (grooming!)



## Ellyisme (Jul 17, 2012)

Look into your state laws first. In Indiana, there is no such thing as a certification and you're basically paying $10,000 for a piece of paper saying you completed a course. That's an expensive piece of paper!

If it were me, I would invest in some equipment. You can learn everything online about faces, or what you're most unsure about, and practice hands-on on some friends dogs. Then, I would start at home just advertising somewhere simple like Craigslist and build a clientele list before thinking about renting somewhere. When you can make a steady income to pay the bottom line like rent and utilities, then I'd start to look at getting your own shop. Or, you can look at working at an already established shop such as PetSmart or somewhere local. Just make sure you take a good look at the pros and cons first before making a decision.

Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## MaryLynn (Sep 8, 2012)

*The only piece of advice that I can give you, if that is what you want to do, and it's what makes you happy then do it.*


Get the better equipment and set up a home shop, I think petsmart also sends groomers to pet school on a work contract (so you could get the trainer and experience you desire paid for-I am not sure about the quality of this, but my cousin did it and she is very happy).

When I look for a dog groomer what I look for is experience. I am most likely to hire a person with 10 years experience then someone with 2 years experience with a fancy piece of paper.

The second thing I like to see is a portfolio, maybe that person with 2 years experience is passionate and dedicated, maybe the person with 10 years experience is just knocking hair off of dogs and isn't very creative.


----------



## -Lilith- (Nov 21, 2012)

Eh there are a lot of competition groomers out there. But I would just look online. Or buy DVDs. Also go to seminars. Go to grooming expos. 
Also if you are starting your own business. Coming from a groomer. DO NOT start your prices out ridiculously low, just because you think you aren't experienced enough to charge what you are worth!!! Grooming is a difficult job


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I think that the best place these days even for seasoned groomers is an online place & I think it is called

Howtogroomdogs.com & for some reason Melisa Verplank is in my mind as one of the instructors but I will have to ask my FB friends. FB- Pro Groomer Network & Critique your Groom are great places to learn. Also FB has a Barter Pet Groomer page & I buy used stuff on there Esp. SHEARS. 

howtogroomdogs is an online I believe $40 a month & I have heard great things about it & even contemplated brushing up on my techniques.


----------



## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Lilith, that is good advice; I was thinking when I read your post, Sawyersmomma, that I don't think people up here are that sophisticated about groomers. Like, I never checked for certification before I took my dogs somewhere to be groomed, I just cared about word of mouth recommendations and a clean shop that looked well-run. But if you DID shadow a groomer for a day, I'll bet you could do that for way cheaper than $1000...maybe even just the cost of grooming a standard ($100 or so?). You could pick a day that they were doing faces. That's just my opinion, but you already have 4 years experience! That's a lot! Another thought: maybe you could challenge the exam for the certificate somewhere down the road if you want to get it? Oh and lastly, when you're grooming for a living and you want to see if you're getting something right, you could take Sawyer to the best groomer you know and see how they do it.


----------



## Sawyersmomma (May 28, 2012)

Thanks all! I guess I just lack confidence. I live in a small town and there are actually loads of groomers, so I want to somehow stand apart from the rest. 
I know it's good to research online, I just feel like it's not the same as actually DOING it. Anyway, if I just job shadow that lady I'm sure she'd let me watch for free. I met her before and she was really nice. She's slowing down and said she's glad to see younger people interested in it.

What would your best recommendation for the equipment be?
I know for SURE I need new scissors. I have the $99 set from pet edge, but could use a much better set. Other than that, I've got the HV dryer, Andis II speed clippers and quite a few blades. I recently bought a Bravura.
I can't think of what else right now, but I have all the basic needs. What would you recommend I upgrade, or look into getting as well. I know shampoo is a good idea-what kinds do you recommend? would you bother with specific colour types first, or just get a basic one, a medicated, and flea one? Other ideas? Sorry, my brain is asleep.
And how many blades of each would you recommend?


----------



## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

I'll let the groomers speak to the equipment issue, but I found when we lived in Slave Lake and Williams Lake that the groomers are booked right up all the time, I'm not sure you would even need anything to make yourself stand out. But, here's something just to kick around...what if you provided a pick-up or drop-off service? When I was grooming years ago, we used to do that on an unofficial basis just because we had good customers who'd been loyal to the shop for years and could be trusted to pay by mail or whatever, but in this day and age a person would probably want the money up front. But the customers back then loved it! On my way to work I'd pick up usually 2 dogs because not everyone needed that service; then on my way home, I'd drop them off again (they would leave a key under a flower pot or whatever). It wasn't a big deal but it helped people who worked long hours, and they got to come home to a freshly groomed dog. Just brain storming


----------



## -Lilith- (Nov 21, 2012)

I have 4 10 blades, 3 7 blades, 2 of everything else. You can stand out by hand drying every dog. And doing one dog at a time. That way they get personalized service. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

If all you need is more practice with heads - I would suggest purchasing the Super Styling Sessions DVD. It is a four-disc compilation of just heads of various breeds. Super Styling Sessions || Instructional DVD's || Heads Compilation - their website lists is for $99 - you can buy it from petedge for $89.95. I think you're in Canada? not sure about shipping to there. They are doing a special (from both websites) where if you purchase the head compilation, you get another DVD for free. Super Styling Sessions DVD | PetEdge.com

Keep in mind ordering directly from Super Styling Sessions website - you can pick ANY DVD for free - on Petedge, I think it's only the Mixed Breeds DVD that is free.


----------



## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

If you want a nice finish on a head - many dogs freak out with the force dryer on the head, it may be a good idea to splurge on a nice stand dryer. That way you can dry the head as you are brushing and fluffy dry. This will give a nicer finish when you scissor. Definitely upgrade to a nicer set of scissors. I love the Kenchii brand - the spider set is what I have (beveled edge) - I use it for everyday. A nice pair of convex edge shears will help. Beveled edge shears are nice for cutting through thick hair, drop coats, or large amounts of hair to block in a dog. Competition groomers always put on the finish work with convex shears. They are not meant for cutting large amounts of hair, just snipping the tips for a clean finish. I also love my thinning shears to blend the head for drop coats. And don't forget cute touches like bows and bandanas!


----------



## Sawyersmomma (May 28, 2012)

Thanks! Ok, so what stand dryer would you recommend?
Basically, I'm going to get screwed over with any prices. Petedge is much cheaper than renspets, but the shipping is ridiculous (yes, to BC)... but rens puts their prices on stuff way higher...
are there any other places I could order from, or brands you would recommend?
What about for scissors, Toki, you said kenchii is good, and I know people on here love chris christensen too...
So let's assume I want good quality equipment, but not absolutely insanely priced... What would you guys recommend?
Even with combs and stuff, this is all I have for combs Resco Prof Comb Fine Black Handle
Would I be better off buying only a few pieces of really good equipment? Or would that be something to do in the future?


----------



## Sawyersmomma (May 28, 2012)

I was looking on the kenchii site, and it showed the scorpion set https://www.kenchii.com/Grooming/kescSet.html
compared to the spider set https://www.kenchii.com/Grooming/kespSet.html
I saw the scorpion set was a level 1 and the spider is level 2.
Are the spider ones that much better, or would the scorpion set work just fine if I'm not planning on doing show dogs or whatever, just for the average dog...?


----------



## star (Feb 20, 2011)

This website has some good info on pet heads etc

Grooming Smarter: Teddy Bear Heads

I found that when I apprenticed I did not like how I was taught to do heads and I figured out my own way to do heads by watching other groomers, dvd's and videos. You will find your own technique and what works best for you. Results vary with coat type, condition and dog behaviour too lol. I would recommend you buy some thinners. They are like an eraser if you make a mistake you can blend and get rid of scissor marks. You do get what you pay for with equipment though but you don't have to spend a fortune to start.


----------



## Sawyersmomma (May 28, 2012)

Thanks, the one thing the groomer I worked for didn't teach or use was thinners, so I'm not sure how to do that, I guess I'll just look online to learn


----------



## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

Sawyersmomma said:


> I was looking on the kenchii site, and it showed the scorpion set https://www.kenchii.com/Grooming/kescSet.html
> compared to the spider set https://www.kenchii.com/Grooming/kespSet.html
> I saw the scorpion set was a level 1 and the spider is level 2.
> Are the spider ones that much better, or would the scorpion set work just fine if I'm not planning on doing show dogs or whatever, just for the average dog...?


I think the scorpian set will be fine for you what need. It will be a nice starter set. I love their shears. But then again, shears are very personal to the groomer, so one groomer may love a shear another dislikes. I've picked up Chris Christensen shears and they seem heavy to me. Kenchii is very lightweight. The only difference between the scorpian and spider is the material of the shear. You can upgrade later on. 

I own a very nice convex edge shear but only used that during competition. I have never really needed a convex edge shear for pet clients because 1) takes more time to scissor, and 2) most pet dogs do not have the hair to get a nice finish (many pet poodles have wispy, floppy hair). So my beveled edge shears does just fine, and it actually "lifts" the hair as you cut, so it is good for drop coats.

For a stand dryer, I like the Edemco brand but they can be pricey. Whatever you do, don't get the Master Equipment PowerDry. I have that and although I like the actual dryer - it can double as a stand dryer or a force dryer because it is variable speed and comes with a stand you can mount or dismount the dryer on - the little plastic insert that goes into the base is a poor design and has broken on me twice! Now I have to get things from the hardware store to add onto the base to make it stand again. To save money, maybe you should invest in a CC variable speed force dryer. I have used the Kool Pup (I think) and it was nice because you can turn it down low and use it almost like a stand dryer (you'll have to get a clamp to hold the nozzle if you plan to brush at the same time) or you can use it as a force dryer.

When I learned grooming, I was never taught how to use a thinning shear! I was also taught just one way of doing a teddy bear head - short and ugly. For ALL breeds! And one style of poodle topknot - short. I developed the style I liked by looking at videos and pictures. The thinning shears does add on extra time to your groom so just be aware of that. I usually use snap on combs to block in the face, scissor sticky outies, then finish up with my thinning shears to blend everything (this is on drop coats). You can also use snap on combs for curly coats, but you always want to use scissors to finish the head.

You can purcahse Jodi Murphy DVDs on shears, snap-on-combs and thinning shears (3 separate DVDs) if you want to watch some videos. Or learn2groomdogs.com has many videos you can watch over and over again for a monthly fee of $42/month.

Some grooming items I can't live without (besides your typical clipper and blades):

- kenchii spider set (8" straights, 8" curved, 44-tooth thinners) (beveled edge)
- Bravura mini (non-adjustable #30 blade)
- Les Poochs matzapper (I use this A LOT - I want to be buried or cremated with this brush when I die)
- CC poodle buttercomb
- 3-4" blunt tip scissors (great for cutting out mats or trimming ear the eyes)

I've tried a Chris Christesen slicker brush and it was really nice! My future purchases will be the CC slicker brush and a CC comb that is fine tooth. I also want to get another LP matzapper, and I am looking at their greyhound comb. I also want the Wahl Arco.

For shampoo, I love Chris Christesen products for drop coats and curly coats. For bath dogs, I use Show Seasons products.


----------



## Sawyersmomma (May 28, 2012)

Thanks!! And in case I haven't bothered you with enough questions, care to explain the beveled and convex edge thing on scissors?
Aha I was only aware of... scissors, I didn't know there were different options like that, and don't really understand


----------



## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

I have to disagree with tokipoke about using convex taking longer to scissor with.. I find the convex edge like cutting with a light saber. Mind you most of my shears are beveled, but I can put a nice finish on a dog with them. It just takes me a bit longer to do lol. Most of my pet clients don't require using a convex because they get clipper combs or blades on their bodies and you just need minimal scissoring. I also hand scissor all my heads regardless of breed, I feel it gives me more control of the finished product. I am less likely to take the head too low.. A 3/4" comb may be perfect for most heads but some would have looked better with a bit more hair. 

I think you can learn a bit from the shark fin shears website under their videos they talk about different handles and about convex and beveled.


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

Most pet dogs do not have the correct hair, so they are fine using a beveled edge shear - most of them are taken short anyway, but even at a longer length, the hair still doens't act right. Convex edge shears give a great finish, but why bother trying to get an immaculate finish on floppy hair? That's what I meant by using convex shears taking longer... they are not meant to cut through a lot of hair, and on incorrect hair, no matter how long you spend on it, it still doesn't look right. It is nice practice to use convex shears on every dog, but I find not every dog requires it. I have a pair of cheaper convex edge shears that I will try on a dog with a better coat.

I was taught to hand scissor heads, even on drop coat teddy bear heads, but it just takes longer, and then you have the dogs that move their heads, so I find the snap on combs easier just to take the bulk off. Every groomer has their way of doing things - as long as the finished product looks good and the owner is happy!


----------



## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

*Beveled vs. Convex*

Here is a link to a groomer forum discussing the differences: what is the diffrence between convex and beveled edge shears?


----------



## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

tokipoke said:


> Most pet dogs do not have the correct hair, so they are fine using a beveled edge shear - most of them are taken short anyway, but even at a longer length, the hair still doens't act right. Convex edge shears give a great finish, but why bother trying to get an immaculate finish on floppy hair? That's what I meant by using convex shears taking longer... they are not meant to cut through a lot of hair, and on incorrect hair, no matter how long you spend on it, it still doesn't look right. It is nice practice to use convex shears on every dog, but I find not every dog requires it. I have a pair of cheaper convex edge shears that I will try on a dog with a better coat.
> 
> I was taught to hand scissor heads, even on drop coat teddy bear heads, but it just takes longer, and then you have the dogs that move their heads, so I find the snap on combs easier just to take the bulk off. Every groomer has their way of doing things - as long as the finished product looks good and the owner is happy!


You're right every groomer does things different. Even if I use combs I still end up hand scissoring. It does take a little longer but not by much. Unless like you said they fight ya lol. I find less dogs fight me for their heads If I hand scissor as opposed to clippering. I used a comb once and it just went way shorter IMO so I have been hand scissoring exclusively ever since lol.
I only use convex shear on my bichons and poodle hand scissors. Otherwise regular bevels work fine, and yes they do leave a great finish. However, they take a number of extra snips to accomplish and the less wear and tear on my hands the better!
Are you allowed to use product at your work? Unfortunately we're not but if we could... On floppy coats I fluff up and scissor my imaginary lines. Yeah they will fluff down but at least I tried lol and I know I'd someone else grooms the dog they can't say I have scragglies lol! Many pet owners notice the difference too.. Not all, but many.


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Sawyersmomma (May 28, 2012)

thanks for the link! I think I'm understanding now! So you wouldn't even recommend a convex edge for finishing the dog, unless it's basically a show dog or something? 
From what I'm reading it seems like using the beveled edge would work best for pre-bath, and the convex for finishing, but you wouldn't use if for your average Fido? Just stick to the beveled for now?
Sorry for all the questions, it's like a whole new world! :shocked:
Also, do you guys have a pre-bath pair of scissors, and ones strictly for finishing? (Not even thinking of the edge, but just 2 pairs in general)


----------



## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Sawyersmomma said:


> thanks for the link! I think I'm understanding now! So you wouldn't even recommend a convex edge for finishing the dog, unless it's basically a show dog or something?
> From what I'm reading it seems like using the beveled edge would work best for pre-bath, and the convex for finishing, but you wouldn't use if for your average Fido? Just stick to the beveled for now?
> Sorry for all the questions, it's like a whole new world! :shocked:
> Also, do you guys have a pre-bath pair of scissors, and ones strictly for finishing? (Not even thinking of the edge, but just 2 pairs in general)


Work smarter not harder. I dont like to clip dirty dogs with anything unless they are so heavily matted then you have no choice. Its easier on your equipment to cut clean hair. If I did it again I would have convex shears and my $25 beveled shears for feet and small stuff. Time is money and you do get a nicer finish faster with convex than beveled. It really is going to depend on what kind of grooming you will plan to do. Some like to preclip and others do not.. If you are going to preclip/scissor then go with the beveled. 

I wan to produce the best as possible, I want to make every fido look like a show dog (at least try). That is my style. I have the best stuff for my personal dogs and show/competition dogs.. I also will use them on certain breeds/ dogs that get handscissored. I will eventually upgrade all my pet shears. What do you want to do is the question? I also am venturing into the blender world an love it esp for TBH!


----------



## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Sawyersmomma said:


> Thanks all! I guess I just lack confidence. I live in a small town and there are actually loads of groomers, so I want to somehow stand apart from the rest.
> I know it's good to research online, I just feel like it's not the same as actually DOING it. Anyway, if I just job shadow that lady I'm sure she'd let me watch for free. I met her before and she was really nice. She's slowing down and said she's glad to see younger people interested in it.
> 
> What would your best recommendation for the equipment be?
> ...


Have you thought about mobile grooming or door to door where you groom in the clients home. You would charge more than a salon would for sure and some clients really like that kind of service. If in the house grooming like someone said a express service (more like one on one grooming) would be unique since some customers are picky about how long their babies are away.. again this would fetch a premium price.

As for shears get the best you can afford. I have a pair of $25 wolffs that I use on feet for A, not to slice a pad and B not to ding my shear on a toenail. I am liking the Shark fins myself, but I also like CC shears. How many blades at least two of 4f and under and at least one if not two of larger blades OR get some guardcombs for longer hair. Shampoos seem to work better in certain climates and water ph. I have used the non soap cleanser Tropiclean it does pretty well. I love my IOD shampoos, and I have heard Nature's specialties is good in harder water. I have heard great things about B3 products and will one day get around to trying some lol. I already do sugar scrubs on my dogs.. Damn I think Ill get a sample:
B3 Salon Products

If you want to do top quality service you should use top quality products! Of course if you work for someone else you have to follow their rules. Of course as I said before what do YOU want to do? Also offering spa services would be different or hair color. What kind of clientelle are you looking for and what kind do you have to work with. Are we talking high end clients or those bargain hunters. Many variables to consider.

ETA: I would get a bathing system. I prefer recirculating systems myself.. I hate the hydrosurge kind!


----------



## Sawyersmomma (May 28, 2012)

I was taught to do a rough shave first, to get most of the hair out of the way, then bathe,dry, and finish.
Obviously this isn't the case if I'm going to leave it long, but that's normally what I do. I only scissor a bit before the bath to get through the mats. 
Also, you say you use clip on combs for the first shave, my boss gave me a bunch of blades, including 4's and 5's, but they aren't snap on combs, they're the actual blade... does this ruin it more? Or why is there really a difference?


----------



## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Guard combs tend to leave a nicer finish on some coats than blades and vice versa. They are cheaper than blades and all you need are the blades to go underneath like 9thru 50 depending on the comb brand. I have guard combs 1"-2" in length and bought 1/2", 5/8", and 3/4" blades. Much more expensive than a set of combs. I don't preclip generally I find it to be double the work. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Sawyersmomma (May 28, 2012)

I was just taught this way, it also seems like they would take forever to dry if I didn't


----------



## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Understandably, many are taught that way, I think. IME unless the dog is severely matted, hates the dryer so bad it's willing to cause itself bodily harm, it's getting a 10 ao or the dog is just plain sketchy then I don't find pre clipping faster. I may preclip some shaves but if the blade doesn't go thru easily it gets bathed and blown out. If its a double coat and ESP if it gets longer than a 7 then it gets bathed first. Why struggle getting a blade thru dirty undercoat and deal with track marks when a clean blown out coat clips better. It's still going to take me just as Long to blow out. You should time yourself to see what works for you.. I found that bathing first is faster in most cases, at least for me. If you have an inadequate dryer that can definitely add time to your grooms and pre clipping totally makes sense


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Sawyersmomma (May 28, 2012)

Also, how often do you sharpen your shears?


----------

