# Collapsing Trachea in Miniature Poodle?



## Chagall's mom

Anyone have a miniature poodle (or know of one) with a collapsing trachea problem? If so, what are the symptoms and at what age did it become apparent? How was it treated; with medication, rest, surgery?


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## rubymom

Personally, I have not known of a miniature poodle with a collapsing trachea, just two yorkies and a shih tzu. 
I thought that it was pretty much a tiny dog thing. Although, I have read that it may be assosciated with the bordetella vaccine.


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## FozziesMom

I hope dear chagall is not sick!


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## schnauzerpoodle

Is Chagall okay?

I don't know of any mini that suffers from that. I know of a toy though. I think the vet told her owner to use a harness instead of a collar and to avoid any intense activity with the dog.


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## Chagall's mom

Thank you my wonderful poodle pals for your replies and concern. Chagall does not appear to be sick, I'm just a bit of worrier.

Yesterday I was at the vet's just to weigh Chagall and I mentioned to him that Chagall _occasionally_ makes a "honking" sound when he pulls on his leash. (I know, he should _never _pull; he is _not_ convinced!). The vet threw out "collapsing trachea" and I almost collapsed on the floor! He said just use a harness and don't worry about it, unless it gets worse. (While watching my poodle zoom around his waiting room.) I flew home and began surfing the internet and started a "journal" to document when Chagall has "episodes," of course there have been none. The local pet boutique is richer today; Chagall now has three lovely new harnesses. 

I tossed and turned all night while my husband and poodle slept like logs off the same tree. I don't know how concerned to be. I've asked everyone who sees Chagall-- his trainer, pet sitter, local pet store owners and other dog owners, to watch him for this._ If_ Chagall is starting up with something I just have to get ahead of it. I may just run him over to the University of Pennsylvania Veterinary Hospital for a thorough going over. Alternatively, I may have to check _myself _in somewhere!

_Whew_, I feel better splashing all that out on the screen. Thanks again!


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## schnauzerpoodle

Ah… that honking/coughing sound when pulling … yes, Nickel does that too when he's pulling REALLY hard (when he sees his friend across the street and we are waiting at the light). I talked to the vet and we are now using the Easy Walk harness and no more coughing. 

I have heard the toy poodle with CT cough. It's a totally different thing. That toy poodle sounded as if she was coughing her lung out and followed with some whizzing sound, you know, like she needed an inhaler or something. 

I don't think you should be too worried


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## Chagall's mom

schnauzerpoodle said:


> Ah… that honking/coughing sound when pulling … yes, Nickel does that too when he's pulling REALLY hard (when he sees his friend across the street and we are waiting at the light). I talked to the vet and we are now using the Easy Walk harness and no more coughing.
> 
> I have heard the toy poodle with CT cough. It's a totally different thing. That toy poodle sounded as if she was coughing her lung out and followed with some whizzing sound, you know, like she needed an inhaler or something.
> 
> I don't think you should be too worried


Oh Josie, I love you!! This is EXACTLY what I needed to hear! So Nickel (well-behaved boy that he is) sometimes tugs hard to get to something (his buds) and makes that noise? Yup! Same exact scenario for Chagall--he sees his hiking buddies up on the path and he goes to pulling and honking a time or two. And to you it _doesn't _sound like a poor dog with CT? Oh, is that ever a RELIEF! I'm old enough to be your granny but you just gave me the kind of comfort only a mother could give. Thank you my silver mini mom friend!! Thank you sooooooo much!


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## rubymom

I think that lots of dogs will cough at times when pulling on a lead, particularly with some types of collars! I agree with Nickel's mom, a case of CT sounds so much more intense and repeated.
Happy to hear it was just a suspicion!


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## schnauzerpoodle

Nickel is NOT that well behaved  And yes, he does pull and tug when he sees his BFFs. That cough doesn't sound as intense as the CT "cough", not even close. Of course, what I am saying is based on that one case (toy poodle) so I am not saying every single CT case would sound the same. My friend's toy made that whizzing sound even at rest (like when we were watching TV together and she was sitting next to us and would get up and cough and hiss a few times and then sat down as if nothing had happened.

I think a harness and some loose leash training will do the trick.


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## Chagall's mom

rubymom said:


> I think that lots of dogs will cough at times when pulling on a lead, particularly with some types of collars! I agree with Nickel's mom, a case of CT sounds so much more intense and repeated.
> Happy to hear it was just a suspicion!


*rubymom: * _Really_ appreciate your thoughts on this! I guess my overblown worry reflects my rather intense attachment to my poodle. We are just inseparable, never had another dog like him. Thinking more rationally (at the moment, which could pass!), I am much comforted to hear other "pullers" sometimes "honk" too. It's so infrequent, I guess I was being a wee bit overly concerned. None of my other dogs ever did this, so I was uncertain. It's _so helpful _to have others here on PF to bounce things off of, and to hold ya' down on the ground when you're bouncing around! (And oh how my husband appreciates it! He thinks I'm a tad obsessive.) [_guilty_!]


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## 3dogs

What you describe is very common of any size dog pulling on a collar & leash. Almost all of my dogs at one time or another have coughed from pulling too hard. My Spoo is in obedience right now & I use a flat collar & at times he will hack a quick cough. I do have a Pom X that I don't know if he has a collapsed trachea or he just has reverse sneezing but he is the only dog that can hack, wheeze, snort etc...

Of my clients I see with collapsed trachea are Poms, Shih Tzu, t.poo, yorkie but then again I groom small dogs so I do see it. Either the dogs are on a harness or nothing at all.


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## FozziesMom

Chagall's mom said:


> So Nickel (well-behaved boy that he is) sometimes tugs hard to get to something (his buds) and makes that noise? Yup! Same exact scenario for Chagall--he sees his hiking buddies up on the path and he goes to pulling and honking a time or two.


Fozzie makes exactly the same sound in that situation. I figure since HE is pulling on the lead he'll stop when it bothers him. I make sure I'm not the one pulling on him in those instances. Make sense?


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## fjm

I try very hard to ensure mine don't pull on the lead, but they too have occasionally seen something so irresistable they have tugged themselves into a coughing fit. And Sophy does the reverse snezzing too - very worrying the first time you hear it! The harnesses are a good idea though - think of them as preventing any possibiity of the problem in the future!


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## Chagall's mom

FozziesMom said:


> Fozzie makes exactly the same sound in that situation. I figure since HE is pulling on the lead he'll stop when it bothers him. I make sure I'm not the one pulling on him in those instances. Make sense?


Dear* FozziesMom*: I continue to find you to be one of the most remarkable poodle people I know! I've followed the tough issues you deal with in giving Fozzie such a good life. Frankly, it makes me feel silly for I posting about my CT concern. But still, there you are reaching out to support others. Your compassion always shines through. Lucky Fozzie, lucky anyone who knows you.

Thank you for sharing your experience with the "pulling and sounding off" business. You make me actually feel completely certain I'm just dealing with a delicate necked dog who responds to his own self-inflicted leash pulling in a way that's rather common among poodles What's _not_ common is to come upon such a fine woman as yourself. I hope Fozzie continues to adjust to his new day care free schedule and has his full energy and zeal back soon. I know you worry about him around the clock, but it sounds to me as though he couldn't have a better life than the one you give him.


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## phrannie

*My sister's Toy Poo had a collasping trachea....and the "cough" is not that honking noise a dog makes when they are pulling on a lead...it's a real coughing fit. With my sister's dog, it only took the lightest touch on his throat to get one of those fits going...We were always very careful to not touch his throat when we picked him up....always used a harness if he had to be on a leash... in the house he wore nothing. It was a progressive thing, probably starting when he was middled aged (8? 10?).....and got worse as he grew older. The little guy lived till he was 18...so it didn't shorten his life.

I think it's ok for you to relax, it doesn't sound like your pup is suffering from collasping trachea.

p*


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## CT Girl

The dog does not have to have a delicate neck to have this issue. I have seen it with dogs of all sizes and with my Aussie - ah rabbits - and figured if it reallly bothered him he would stop pulling. The possiblility of being able to chase rabbits was worth choking himself to him. I can understand your concern; it sounds dreadful.


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## Chagall's mom

*Phrannie *& *CT Girl*: Thanks for making me feel so much better about this!! Having nearly driven myself and my vet crazy over it, I now see my concern was _way_ overblown. I am using a "Gentle Walk" harness now and it makes a world of difference. I continue to work at trying to help Chagall contain his exuberance (though it is so dear!). When he sees a Robin or a Dove on the ground, it's still a bit of a challenge. But, his loose leash walking _is _more reliable using the harness. I switch back to the collar periodically and most of he time he "transfers" his nice harness walking manners to it.


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## LEUllman

Beau used to do the coughing thing when wearing a regular collar, and he isn't even much of a puller. Scared the heck out of me, the first time he did it. Then I got a 1.5"-wide martingale "kindness" collar from Carol at Dogsinstyle; problem solved 100%. I wouldn't even consider using a regular collar now, unless for some unusual activity. As an added bonus, the custom blue brocade collar Carole made for us is a real beauty.


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## Rowan

Chagall's mom said:


> Anyone have a miniature poodle (or know of one) with a collapsing trachea problem? If so, what are the symptoms and at what age did it become apparent? How was it treated; with medication, rest, surgery?


My two senior rescues (one was 14+ and the other 13+) had tracheal issues and were on medications to control the cough. They tend to do a goose like cough with a gag at the end (not the soft cough associated with heart problems). My vet said the surgery is tricky and not always successful (not something he wanted to put a senior dog through either). They were on hydrocodone for the cough and I always use harnesses with my poodles. 

Dog Coughing: Types, Treatments, and Causes

ETA: And as everyone else pointed out, a dog with a collapsing trachea will cough at all times and not just when on leash or pulling. My two senior rescues would cough when they were sitting, lying down or walking. Stress tended to exacerbate it too--the hydrocodone did help and for the most part, they had restful nights, etc.


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## Chagall's mom

LEUllman said:


> Beau used to do the coughing thing when wearing a regular collar, and he isn't even much of a puller. Scared the heck out of me, the first time he did it. Then I got a 1.5"-wide martingale "kindness" collar from Carol at Dogsinstyle; problem solved 100%. I wouldn't even consider using a regular collar now, unless for some unusual activity. As an added bonus, the custom blue brocade collar Carole made for us is a real beauty.


That really is a _stunning_ collar!! And lucky me, I have an "excuse" to get one for Chagall, "it's for his health." lol!


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## Chagall's mom

Rowan said:


> My two senior rescues (one was 14+ and the other 13+) had tracheal issues and were on medications to control the cough. They tend to do a goose like cough with a gag at the end (not the soft cough associated with heart problems). My vet said the surgery is tricky and not always successful (not something he wanted to put a senior dog through either). They were on hydrocodone for the cough and I always use harnesses with my poodles.
> 
> Dog Coughing: Types, Treatments, and Causes
> 
> ETA: And as everyone else pointed out, a dog with a collapsing trachea will cough at all times and not just when on leash or pulling. My two senior rescues would cough when they were sitting, lying down or walking. Stress tended to exacerbate it too--the hydrocodone did help and for the most part, they had restful nights, etc.


Appreciate the info,* Rowan*! And your postscript, too, lest I re-imagine a problem where there is none (oh, and can I ever do _that!_). The article was helpful. I am now a "harness" convert, though I'm jonsing for a Dog-in-Style martingale collar too.


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## Feathersprings

Tizzy pulls something awful.. I hate it and do worry about collapsed trachea... I have seen too many . It is seen more often in small dogs but I wouldnt consider a Mini to not be small... I was told they( smaller dogs) have less muscle in the neck than the larger dogs so it happens easier.. not sure if that is accurate. I use an easy walk harness on Tizzy where the leash connects on the chest. The other harnesses seem to teach them to pull  This one turns them into you when they pull so they get nowhere fast like that! It seems to be helping. Once I get her to the point of not pulling we are off to classes. This kind of harness was the turning point for Hoolie also... he did great with it. Before that he was almost pulling me over on walks. Now he is our little Canine Good Citizen !


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## schpeckie

OK, time for me to get on this bandwagon - my girls also pull on their leash and every once in a while, they will let out a little cough. So, of course like the mother I am, worry about them being choked with their collars. I'm wondering, is a harness the way to go? The girls get so excited when it's walk time, they just want to go!


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## Feathersprings

Here is a link that shows you how the easy walk harness works. I really dont like regular harnesses though. 
Premier Pet No Pull Easy Walk Harnesses


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## Rowan

These are my favorite harnesses--my poodles must have one each for every season! 

Up Country Inc

On a side note, my guys don't pull. But after seeing the suffering of two miniature poods with collapsing trachea problems firsthand, I've always used harnesses.


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## Chagall's mom

Feathersprings said:


> Tizzy pulls something awful.. I hate it and do worry about collapsed trachea... I have seen too many . It is seen more often in small dogs but I wouldnt consider a Mini to not be small... I was told they( smaller dogs) have less muscle in the neck than the larger dogs so it happens easier.. not sure if that is accurate. I use an easy walk harness on Tizzy where the leash connects on the chest. The other harnesses seem to teach them to pull  This one turns them into you when they pull so they get nowhere fast like that! It seems to be helping. Once I get her to the point of not pulling we are off to classes. This kind of harness was the turning point for Hoolie also... he did great with it. Before that he was almost pulling me over on walks. Now he is our little Canine Good Citizen !


*Feathersprings*: Thanks to *schnauzerpoodle*'s recommendation, I've been using the Easy Walk harness with great success! Two other members of our dog walking club have also become "converts" to it. The other style of harness I tried, which attaches over the dog's back, just seem to reinforce Chagall's "opposition response" to pull like a sled dog. I am alternating back and forth to his buckle collar in a effort to keep him reliably in the loose-leash walking groove. So far, so good!


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## Chagall's mom

schpeckie said:


> OK, time for me to get on this bandwagon - my girls also pull on their leash and every once in a while, they will let out a little cough. So, of course like the mother I am, worry about them being choked with their collars. I'm wondering, is a harness the way to go? The girls get so excited when it's walk time, they just want to go!


*schpeckie*: Though opinions understandably vary about using a harness, my vet advocated doing so from the start. Chagall's trainer, however, felt otherwise. I had, until recently, been adhering to his school of thought that "the harness isn't teaching him how to walk politely." Well, if heaven forbid Chagall was injured by pulling, my last concern would be how "politely" he'd walk! The trainer has now changed his tune and wants to try the Easy Walk harness for two large breed pups he's working with, having seen the incredible and instantaneous improvement in Chagall's leash manners. I would encourage you to give it a try. Though some have great luck using the back fastening harness style, I hit the jackpot with the front attaching Easy Walk. it's a product that really lives up to its name!


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## schpeckie

Chagall's mom said:


> * The trainer has now changed his tune and wants to try the Easy Walk harness for two large breed pups he's working with, having seen the incredible and instantaneous improvement in Chagall's leash manners. I would encourage you to give it a try. Though some have great luck using the back fastening harness style, I hit the jackpot with the front attaching Easy Walk. it's a product that really lives up to its name!*


*
Thanks Chagall's Mom - Wonderful, I am definately going to give the harness a try. Sylvia*


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## schnauzerpoodle

Chagall's mom: I am happy to hear that the Easy Walk harness works out for you and Chagall. Nickel's loose leash walking has improved tremendously since he started using it. I have been doing what you do, i.e. switching between the EW harness and the traditional collar. I still have both on but I would attach the leash to the collar. He can walk using the traditional collar with the leash buckle perpendicular to the ground - not 100% but I would say 75% of the time. Of course the calm loose-leash atmosphere gets disturbed once he spots his friend across the street.


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