# Halona Before/After - Advice/Opinions?



## Servicepoodlemomma (Jun 22, 2013)

Woops, forgot photos







Before
















After

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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I'm no groomer, but I can see that you did not shave her far enough - she should be naked (except if you are going to try to do hip poms) up to the rib.
As a self taught groomer of my own dogs, I actually find the continental the easiest to do - the jacket pretty much shapes itself, and the tail and bracelets are pretty easy to scissor with curved shears - what I could never do is the styles where the hair is longer all over like a teddy bear or a show puppy clip.


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## Servicepoodlemomma (Jun 22, 2013)

I do not want to try for pom poms on her hips which is why I left the hair on her rear the way I did. 

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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Then I really don't understand what you are trying for - leaving her hair that far back will make her back look longer - something that we don't usually want in poodles.


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## Servicepoodlemomma (Jun 22, 2013)

Sorry, fingers go faster then brain. I DO want to try for pom poms, so I didn't want to shave all her rear hair off. 

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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I found that poms are too much for my toys - but somebody gave me a good idea to do them once - find a cap (like for a hairspray bottle) in the size that you want them, hold the cap there and then just shave around it!


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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I found that poms are too much for my toys - but somebody gave me a good idea to do them once - find a cap (like for a hairspray bottle) in the size that you want them, hold the cap there and then just shave around it!


I used that trick for Kennedy and it worked pretty well. Someone on here also told me to use vet wrap tape to set the line at the end of the ribs and that worked well too.


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## Servicepoodlemomma (Jun 22, 2013)

Jamie Hein said:


> I used that trick for Kennedy and it worked pretty well. Someone on here also told me to use vet wrap tape to set the line at the end of the ribs and that worked well too.


So you basically vet wrapped just in front of the last rib and shaved back from there?

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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

I vet wrapped directly after the last rib to be safe and clipped from there using a #10 in reverse the first time with a toe blade in between the poms since he is a toy. The second time I did a touch up I used a #40 on the shaved parts (face, feet, legs) and that worked better.


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## Servicepoodlemomma (Jun 22, 2013)

OK, you convinced me to go all the way! More shots later - but here is basically how it turned out.







Ignore the red - it is just tint from the light. This is with a 10 blade. May try a 15 next time. But may leave her jacket further back????
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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm not the best one to give you advice since I'm still learning but you have shaved the jacket up too far. It should be a little after the last rib ( a finger or two depending on the dog and how long the body is).


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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

The jacket is up a little bit too high but other than that, fantastic job! Here is the thread of Kennedy's continental and critiques on it: 

http://www.poodleforum.com/9-poodle-grooming/57049-kennedy-his-continental-critiques-please.html


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## Servicepoodlemomma (Jun 22, 2013)

Thanks, will grow the jacket back further. I am a novice learning as I go! LOL. 







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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Well now in the top view I agreed that you went too far, but in the next pictures I am not so sure that you did.
Also, and I do not know if this is correct or not, but I shave all the way up the front arms, allowing the jacket to grow over them - leaving hair on the top as you did I think is just an invitation for under arm tangles- but I would like to hear what the experts think of that!


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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Well now in the top view I agreed that you went too far, but in the next pictures I am not so sure that you did.
> Also, and I do not know if this is correct or not, but I shave all the way up the front arms, allowing the jacket to grow over them - leaving hair on the top as you did I think is just an invitation for under arm tangles- but I would like to hear what the experts think of that!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


That part confused me. I assumed that the way the cut originated that the elbow joints should be covered with hair. So I shave right up to the elbow joints. Edited to say that I still do shave directly in the arm pit, but you can't see that anyway.


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## Servicepoodlemomma (Jun 22, 2013)

I also shave the arm pit. I do think I went a little to fat, but got do many compliments in her at the park!!!!

I will see what the exerts say but I always thought you left the hair from the elbow up also. 

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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Servicepoodlemomma said:


> I also shave the arm pit. I do think I went a little to fat, but got do many compliments in her at the park!!!!
> 
> I will see what the exerts say but I always thought you left the hair from the elbow up also.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I don't know, I have always thought it was just extra bulk to tangle or mat because it's constantly in motion - the jacket will cover the area either way, but I would love to know what is proper!


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## Servicepoodlemomma (Jun 22, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I don't know, I have always thought it was just extra bulk to tangle or mat because it's constantly in motion - the jacket will cover the area either way, but I would love to know what is proper!


Me to!

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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Why doesn't anybody who knows more then us reply to this thread!
Groomers - Show Breeders - hellllloooooooo - where are you!


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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Why doesn't anybody who knows more then us reply to this thread!
> Groomers - Show Breeders - hellllloooooooo - where are you!


Hey, I'm a groomer! Just not an experienced one


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## Servicepoodlemomma (Jun 22, 2013)

Jamie Hein said:


> Hey, I'm a groomer! Just not an experienced one


Me as well - but I am use to pet trims, can't find it on google either - will ask at my next poodle club meeting (if they don't laugh me out the door for my rookie job on Halona LOL

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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

Servicepoodlemomma said:


> Me as well - but I am use to pet trims, can't find it on google either - will ask at my next poodle club meeting (if they don't laugh me out the door for my rookie job on Halona LOL
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I found directions for the trim in the Grooming for Dummies book, although it wasn't very precise.


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## Servicepoodlemomma (Jun 22, 2013)

Jamie Hein said:


> I found directions for the trim in the Grooming for Dummies book, although it wasn't very precise.


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Never been into those, I am more of a hands on type learner. But this is why I love coming here. We all have things and areas we are stronger or weaker in - and your tip may save us both a lot of painful hours dematting underarms down the road. I made my share of mistakes, OK, more then my fair share the first time I got into showing dogs. That is why when fate brought Halona and I together - I knew I would practice with her grooming, feed, love, and care for her as though she is a top Westminister Champion, so when I am ready to start back into the ring and put that show lead back between my fingers - I will know with a confidence I will not make the same stupid mistakes again.


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

Ok. I used to show toys so here goes. The jacket needs to come back about 2". Your hip rosettes are too small, and also, one is higher up than the other. Use the spine as a guide to set your line between the rosettes. Use a 5/8 toe blade and go right up the spine. 
I have a hard time using words to describe so bear with me. The rosettes are not something as simple as putting a jar on the dog and clipping around them. You are scissoring up and around, almost an oval shape with regards to hair left on the dog, but you then scissor it into a round shape. Make those rosettes bigger, not so small. On a standard the rosettes should be a good 6-7" across. That will also help make your jacket set up better.

You shaved up to the elbows, that's perfect. When you do the back feet pom poms, take two fingers above the hock joint. Shave from there. Now, the front pom poms should be at the same height as the back ones. It looks to me like you did a pretty darn good job. The back poms are an elliptical shape. The front ones are more like a column with the top ever so slightly rounded. If you round up there too much, the poms look too narrow. 
Shirley Kalstone's book is VERY good. I highly recommend to anyone doing their own grooming. 
And the bonus of poodle hair is that it grows back  So you can make adjustments as necessary.
Another thing that helps is to find a picture of a show dog in continental, print it out and look at it as you go. Really study where the rosettes are in comparison with the tail, and the jacket as well, and the rosettes fill in the space in-between. 

HTH. If I were near you I could show you more easily


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## Servicepoodlemomma (Jun 22, 2013)

Shamrockmommy said:


> Ok. I used to show toys so here goes. The jacket needs to come back about 2". Your hip rosettes are too small, and also, one is higher up than the other. Use the spine as a guide to set your line between the rosettes. Use a 5/8 toe blade and go right up the spine.
> I have a hard time using words to describe so bear with me. The rosettes are not something as simple as putting a jar on the dog and clipping around them. You are scissoring up and around, almost an oval shape with regards to hair left on the dog, but you then scissor it into a round shape. Make those rosettes bigger, not so small. On a standard the rosettes should be a good 6-7" across. That will also help make your jacket set up better.
> 
> You shaved up to the elbows, that's perfect. When you do the back feet pom poms, take two fingers above the hock joint. Shave from there. Now, the front pom poms should be at the same height as the back ones. It looks to me like you did a pretty darn good job. The back poms are an elliptical shape. The front ones are more like a column with the top ever so slightly rounded. If you round up there too much, the poms look too narrow.
> ...


Thank you for the excellent advice. A lot of the problem is I know she has a lot of flaws when compared to the standard but will still be a fun dog to get my grooming techniques perfect on!

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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

Servicepoodlemomma said:


> Sent from Petguide.com Free App
> Never been into those, I am more of a hands on type learner. But this is why I love coming here. We all have things and areas we are stronger or weaker in - and your tip may save us both a lot of painful hours dematting underarms down the road. I made my share of mistakes, OK, more then my fair share the first time I got into showing dogs. That is why when fate brought Halona and I together - I knew I would practice with her grooming, feed, love, and care for her as though she is a top Westminister Champion, so when I am ready to start back into the ring and put that show lead back between my fingers - I will know with a confidence I will not make the same stupid mistakes again.


Me neither, it is better to learn hands on. Poodle hair grows quickly so it is fun to be able to try many new styles  I would love to do show grooming but I have no idea how to get into it and I need WAY more practice with grooming in general! Maybe in a few years haha.


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

Servicepoodlemomma said:


> Thank you for the excellent advice. A lot of the problem is I know she has a lot of flaws when compared to the standard but will still be a fun dog to get my grooming techniques perfect on!
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Even the nicest show dog has flaws  They are generally camouflaged with hair! lol

Really look at pictures, study them, look at where the bottom of the rosettes end in relation to the flap of skin that connects the tummy to the thigh, look at how much is shaved in front of the tail before the rosette. Your other lines look really good, honestly. You'll need more hair on the front of the rear pom and the back. Get the Kalstone book so you can see the general shape it should be. 
Look at the pictures... memorize them, especially if you are a visual learner. Eventually you'll start to see the balance. Try to visualize her with all the hair she needs, don't look at the hair she has (short) but think of where it needs to fill in. If that makes sense.

Keep posting pics as she grows out, I'll help you as best I can! :act-up:


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