# Leash pulling. At my wits' end.



## Thomazine (Aug 9, 2020)

My boy is sixteen months old now, and we've had issues with leash pulling since we got him. We put him into puppy kindergarten, then Young Dog classes, Trick Novice, and now we're repeating the basics classes in the hopes of getting him rock solid. 

Ever since we got him, we've been trying to deal with the pulling by stopping when he starts to yank, backing up a couple of feet if he continues to pull, turning around so he's forced to come back to the heel position, and going forward again once we get a loose leash. It's been thirteen months of these frustrating stop-start walks. Occasionally we'll manage to go the length of a street without stopping, but today I've walked him three times and each walk was just an exercise in frustration for both of us. A STRAY LEAF! STOP. Back up. Return to heel. Go for ten yards, and OH A BIRD. Repeat. 

He is really distractible, which is why we've been repeating so many classes. He is also not treat-motivated if there is any kind of distraction around. We have gone through whole training classes with him refusing every treat I've offered if he gets excited when we go in - bacon, pieces of chicken, you name it. At home, we can do training drills around the cones in the basement fine. But after months and months, I can't get the basement heeling to translate to outside. 

I am getting so frustrated. This actually reminds me an awful lot of when my first baby refused to sleep through the night, ever, and I read the NO CRY SLEEP SOLUTION three times right through only to discover that none of the 'solution' ever worked no matter how diligently I followed it, and he didn't sleep through the night until he was three and a half. I keep reading the same advice for leash-pulling over and over on positive training boards, and I am doing it consistently, and still he pulls. We have tried a Gentle Leader, a martingale (where I got genuinely worried he would hurt his throat) and for a while, we tried a T-shaped front harness. We've been to dog training classes. We're still going. Help.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

It sounds like he’s way over threshold if he’s not even interested in his absolute favourite, highest value treats.

Have you tried walking somewhere that’s “in-between” the easy cones in the basement and the difficulty level of your street? Ideally this would be somewhere kinda boring and somewhere he doesn’t have an extensive pull history.


I should also add: He’s still at a very challenging age. The world is an absolute _thrill_ for him. It’s hard to compete with that. Can you do some less stressful exercise with him? Let him do some good runs off-leash. Put him on a long line and let him explore a beach or secluded area. Just take a break from this stressful routine you’re in.

Then maybe consider taking an online course that you can follow at your own pace (and his). I read a SpiritDog blog post a while back in which she explained that walking at a human pace is unnatural for a dog. I wish I could find it. Her course is probably the one I’d take.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

With Annie, I found having two pieces of equipment helpful. It was actually 3, but let's ignore one. A harness, where I was lenient about pulling, a flat collar, for obedience heeling (let's ignore this one) and a chain martingale, adjusted so the tightest it gets is just a bit snug on the throat, where I expected nice loose leash walking.

Annie also was more walk oriented than food oriented as a pup.

So, I'd take her for a walk. After some of the beans were gone, then I'd switch to the martingale, and institute no pulling rules. Asking a dog for attention for a whole 15 min or longer walk is HARD at the beginning. That much consistency and concentration is hard for a human, too. Better to build on 10 seconds of success than fight for a long time. 

I also personally found a 10' leash helpful for teaching good walking. I stopped if she wanted to stop and sniff. There's more margin for 'good' behaviour on a longer leash.

Her walking also gets much worse if she hasn't had a nice offleash tear recently.

One game we still play occasionally is the 'earn a walk' game.

We go for a walk. At the end of the walk, we keep going past my house until she pulls. 'oops! Too bad!' and we head home. If she walks nicely again, we keep going past the house again - until she pulls. 'Oops! Too bad!' etc. We do this as many times as I have patience for (usually 1-3) and definitely stop if she pulls past the house. Over time, I started not WANTING to go another block! So I slowed down, change pace, stop, etc, and she hit the end of the leash. And whoops! Too bad! We turnes around.

Then she caught on to me cheating, and started keeping an eye on me, and not letting me get away with that....  I also let her out on leash for pees at the same time as I was drilling leash walking. A short walk was her reward for peeing in the yard, but we played this same game for that walk. It really made loose leash walking a high stakes, high value thing for her. At first, it wouldn't have been fair to her to do it at the beigging of the walk, but earning an 'extra' felt fair to me.


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## Poodle2021 (Mar 14, 2021)

Thomazine, I am right there with you - I was thinking about this exact posting topic yesterday. I could have written your post, it is identical to my experience. My guy is 21 months old and the pulling is frustrating beyond words. Yesterday we walked and he pulled constantly, while on a 20’ line. We have also done All The Classes. He crosses threshold really easily and loses all interest in treats, praise, etc. We have tried harnesses, a pinch collar - with both he literally refuses to walk. Trust me that they have both been introduced, trained, and used humanely - he hates the sensation on his body and spends the entire walk trying to get them off. The only thing he tolerates is a martingale collar.
I might be trying out a different type of harness this week but have no expectation that it will improve anything. He has a fenced in yard with access to it all day, runs at top speed at least twice a day. So it’s not that he doesn’t get enough free running. 
Sorry I can’t give you any suggestions, just commiseration. It is hard.


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## Thomazine (Aug 9, 2020)

_He crosses threshold really easily and loses all interest in treats, praise, etc. _This. His instructors have commented on how hugely distractible he is in every class.

Everyone just kept telling me that if I was consistent, eventually it would come. I'm starting to lose faith in this.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

If you can work in a fenced in area, try to train walking at heal without a leash. If he cant/won't walk with you in the yard, he won't do it on leash either. You have to convince him to want to walk at your side. You must be the most exciting thing to him. Sounds like you're doing this in the basement, so that's a great start. Next, take it to a fenced in boring spot (school parking lot?) with not much to sniff or distract. Just go back and forth (off leash still) over the same path so he doesn't get new distractions every step. Once this is good, try a more distracting fenced area like a yard with many many sniffy spots. Again, just go back and forth (off leash) until he gets good at it. Then maybe the sidewalk in front of your house, back and forth (on leash), back and forth. Then finally work on it on your real walks (on leash). Like PtP said, it's definitely all about distractions.


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## Thomazine (Aug 9, 2020)

I really can't go leash-free anywhere except my yard. Our county has pretty strict leash laws - the only leash-free places are dog parks, which are NOT going to work for this purpose. We also don't have sidewalks - our front yard faces a pretty busy road, so I have to get him away from the house pretty fast. 

I do take him to some local baseball fields when they're empty and quiet to work on his heel on the paths around them, but the pulling still happens when there are birds (or even planes!!!) and of course, we can't go off-leash there. He is definitely better there than when we are walking past people's yards. 

I get the same advice from our instructors - I need to be more exciting than the other dogs, people and instructors. I just have no idea HOW. I think we have a really good bond and he LOVES playing games and working tricks with me at home, but once we're placed next to an adorable Cavalier puppy, I am definitely chopped liver. (Which he also doesn't care about when there are distractions!)


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## Poodle2021 (Mar 14, 2021)

I would guess that your dog, like mine, gets over-aroused easily which then quickly sends him over threshold? My guy is reactive to anything moving - bikes, animals, runners, kids, etc. So it’s not just the walking where I see it. I’ve been looking into some Denise Fenzi online courses. She’s a respected pro trainer who does a lot of dog sports with breeds that naturally have a lot of arousal & need to work with a higher level of arousal. Fenzi Dog Sports Academy - Home

Boy do I hear you on the losing faith part. Right there with you. It doesn’t help that my previous dog was an exact opposite.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

You can do everything I said on leash too. I found it was easier for me & Elroy to figure it out while off leash. Elroy is still distracted by other dogs, certain sniffy spots, people etc, but he's generally focused on me. I do have to keep calling his name, sometimes loudly, to regain his attention from exciting things. Whenever he's starting to not pay attention to you, you need to regain his attention somehow. 
The idea of no leash is to train _*you*_ to not use the leash/collar as a tool to guide him anywhere. You need to be able to control him by commands, not by jerking the leash. Work on that in your yard. Try not to use the leash as a tool to give any instructions. If you pull on his leash (to try to direct him somewhere), his response may be to pull back. I'm pretty sure this is a common response is many dogs.


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## Poodle2021 (Mar 14, 2021)

Just read your reply above - please don’t blame yourself for not being more interesting than the world. For your dog, this might be an unrealistic expectation. I know that I cannot be more interesting to my dog than a deer unless I literally turn into a deer. So far, I have managed these situations. For example: we are walking in the forest preserve, on a 10 foot line. He has a little freedom to explore. We come across a deer about 15 feet back in the wooded area. No way will we be able to walk past it without him pulling, hard, or trying to chase. I tell him to sit. He is allowed to watch the deer, quietly, as long as he is sitting. Usually the deer slowly walks away…because my dog is staring at the deer. His impulse now is to sit if there is something that has his attention / arouses him. Then we continue on our walk. I know most trainers would insist that he watch me, or walk away with me, or learn to ignore the deer. Maybe someday we’ll get there. For now, this works as a middle ground between pulling/dragging/chasing and a competition level heel past a deer.
Anyway, long example but please don’t blame yourself. You may benefit from asking the advice of another trainer or behaviorist to get a different perspective. Not that your trainer isn’t good! But we all have strengths & you may find that a different trainer has another approach that works for you. Keep trying!


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Also, for treats. I basically found out that his favorite treat one minute, isn't necessarily his favorite the next. I pack my pouch with an assortment of his favorites. This way he doesn't know what's next. This technique seems to keep him happy almost every time!


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## Poodle2021 (Mar 14, 2021)

totally agree, Tom! I mix about 4 different kinds together so it’s a random selection. Keeps it more interesting!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Peggy will be three years old in May. In the past week, we’ve had the two best walks of her life.

Don’t give up.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

Our posts have demonstrated - we all face this problem at some time. And most of us had to struggle until we hit the solution that fits our dog.

If Normie pulls when he sees something he wants to investigate I tell him 'you're pulling again' and I move to the other side of the street away from his target. Sometimes I put him in a heel for a few blocks (we both hate that) and sometimes we stop and do a few 'sit/stays.' 

Basically, I change the subject and force his attention elsewhere.

All dogs are unique.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Have you considered using a private trainer? They might be able to see something that will help your everyday walks that they’re not seeing in class.
An odd suggestion, I know, but have you tried taking a break from walking and/or training? Around 7 months old, Phoebe got super obnoxious with our training sessions, so I quit. I gave her a 2-3 week break, and she was a unbelievably better when we started again.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

I turn 180 degrees and go in the opposite direction and when I have gotten Matteo's attention again then I again turn 180 degrees and head off in the right direction again. I reward him when he focuses on me. This morning, I had to turn 4 times in less than two minutes. I could see another dod walker looking at me as if I am mad. It worked with Luca and seems to work with Matteo. It seems to create a break when they have forgotten not to pull.


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## WinnieThePoodle (Sep 1, 2020)

I have the same problem with Winnie (she is 18 months old). I have tried all of the things you mentioned and all sorts of harnessess, collars of different varieties and a slip lead. She doesn't stop even when she is choking. I am back to the harness as the choking frightens me and it's obviously bad for her. She is great when the treats are free flowing but as soon as I stop for a few minutes she starts pulling again. The only thing that seems to be helping (at the moment) is her double ended lead clipped to the front and back of the harness so it's like a reign. She does still pull but a lot less, and I can control it a bit better. We are still working on it all. She is almost perfect for me in every way except for leash pulling. I am thinking of getting a trainer in to help but I know exactly what she is going to say and do as we did it in classes and Winnie is great when she is in training. It's out of training that she wants to do what she wants.


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## Tulsi (Jun 8, 2021)

My border collie Tass always wanted to walk a little ahead of me. I used the double ended lead on the front and top of the harness which was great for when she lunged at traffic (I was never able to stop that, she could hear motorbikes waaay before I could).

She would walk jusr fine on the way home but not until she was around 2 years old.

Hope you find a good trainer to help you.


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## beowoof (Dec 6, 2021)

Thomazine, i can completely empathize. i (half) jokingly call Kirby a malamute at least once a day on walks and wonder when i will be able to enjoy a stroll whilst keeping both of my arms the same length. i wanted to remind you that you're doing so, so well! few people would have the patience to train their dog beyond a petsmart class, let alone go to several and repeat a class for supplemental learning. please be kind to yourself, this is a marathon not a sprint and you will reach your goals with some time, patience and letting your young dog mature. when things get tough training an adolescent dog, i like to remind myself that i was not my best self at 14, 16, 18 or even 20. why would my dog be showing me his best self as a raging teenager? 

regarding the lovely calm cavalier, i totally get it. this week i went to an intermediate class with Kirby my mini and i swear people were wondering why i had brought a hurricane on a leash. i stood next to some lovely, calm dogs who looked up at their owners with admiration and bemoaned that i somehow must wrangle a tasmanian devil. to this i frequently have to tell myself: you are only seeing a "snapshot" of their life. i have no idea if that dog is crate trained, has separation anxiety, is house broken, sleeps through the night, is good at the groomers', etc... this is to say that comparison is the thief of joy. 16 months is so very young, just barely a trip around the sun. it's okay to have challenges along the way and you are doing a tremendous job working with your dog.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I would try a couple of things. First if possible scrub some energy off by playing fetch in a safe fenced area. Then put your leash on (I would use a martingale, forget about harnesses and such) and do some static attention work in your yard so you start for the walk with some focus and not over the top. Then you can start out from home, but your goal is not a long walk. Rather you will go only as far as you can with calm and attention. If all that is for no is five steps down the driveway so be it. If he tunes out you turn around and go home. Give him time and attention to settle back down and try again. Repeat as needed but never continue moving with a bag of snakes on the leash, just go home at that point. Thankfully my pups were never that nutty in the neighborhood, but with each of them if they pulled we turned around right away. I particularly remember thinking my neighbors must have thought I was insane since I spent most of Lily's first year going no further than past the house next door, but after that she became a pleasure to walk with.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Oh and one other super important thing is that you be truly calm when you work on this. Leashes are like antennae for telegraphing your feelings to your dog. Lily and I had a major breakthrough when I figured that out and implemented it with inner peace. She was probably very confused by my love-hate-frustated state of being that I broadcast for much of her first year of life. I wish I could have a do over with her for that, but am grateful I held onto it for Javelin who was the easiest pup to raise and had not too many challenging moments for getting a loose leash from but not like my girlfriend.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

With Galen I was able to get him in line by simply stopping dead when he started pulling. I would only walk forward when he gave me slack. It took many many weeks of consistency on my part, but eventually he got it. One day he tried to lunge forward, stopped himself, and gave a huge sigh. I could tell at that moment he truly understood. Interestingly, he has adopted the stop dead strategy with me when he wants ME to stop pulling. He first gives a little tug and stares reproachfully at me. He then plants his feet if I miss the signal. He takes his sniffing walks very seriously and wants me to respect his interests.

Ritter, however, is a problem I have not yet solved. Unlike Galen, stopping dead and waiting him out turns up the heat. He gets more and more frustrated until he finally throws himself down in a tantrum and starts shrieking like an insulted husky. Unfortunately he is dog reactive, so I can't just work him up to increasing distances. Sometimes he is good for only 200 feet; other times he handles 3/4 a mile with no trouble. It all depends on what we encounter on the walk. Seeing a dog half a mile from home leaves me walking home with a puppy flying in low earth orbit. I will work with a trainer to get this solved, but for now I'm in management mode.

I'm currently walking him with a head collar in addition to his regular leash. The regular collar has a six foot leash attached. The head collar has a light weight two meter leash. Since two meters is slightly longer, he never has pressure on the head collar unless I choose to apply pressure. I am currently using it to turn his head back towards me when he is becoming hyper focused on something.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Does it feel like as soon as you step outside of the door the dog forgets you exist? The world is so interesting and you just become a rock blocking forward progress. Strain at the leash, yank, yank, pull, go left, right, straight, pull... If that's happening, you can fix it.

Read this and do this: http://www.mwbcr.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Auto-Check-In.pdf Once you have practiced autocheckins inside, set this game up outside, too. Make the game identical. You cannot work on loose leash walking unless the dog is paying attention. 

Play the silky-leash game with your dog inside. The game is, you put pressure on the leash and hold it, wait for the dog to move and stop the pressure, then have a party. It's the leash feels tight, dog fixes it, game. Leash should be about 3 feet long and tension should be tight enough for the dog to notice, not painful. The dog needs to learn what to do when the leash feels tight, fix it. When the dog is really good at it, try the same game outside. Make the game identical.

Shrink your walk goals down to walking from your driveway to the neighbor's driveway and back. A man ran a marathon on his balcony during lockdown. You can walk your dog for a mile going back and forth over the same area. Repeating the same patch of land over and over allows the dog to not have to read all the pee mail, chase all the leaves, sniff every bush. They get that out of their systems quickly and are able to focus more on the game you are playing which is...

1, 2, 3, treat. While you are walking, count out loud, 1, 2, 3. On 3, stop forward motion and give the dog a treat at your side. Repeat, 1, 2, 3, treat. 1, 2, 3, treat. Eventually your dog will realize the number three is important. It's pretty cute when they figure it out. 1, 2, 3, treat is high rate of reinforcement. Keep this game going for _*weeks*_ while you walk from one driveway and back again.

Then, when your dog is really into the game, expand the territory to a third driveway. Can you expand your territory all the way down the block? 1, 2, 3, treat.

Next game, final game, is putting the treats on random, from your dog's point of view. Do, Re, Mi, Fa, Sol, La, Ti, Do. One step, Do, treat. Two steps, Do Re, treat. Three steps, Do Re Mi, stop and treat. Four steps Do Re Mi Fa, stop and treat. Five steps, Do Re Mi Fa Sol, stop and treat. Six steps Do Re Mi Fa Sol La, stop and treat. Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Ti, seven steps stop and treat. Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Ti Do, eight stops stop and treat. 

Don't go higher than eight steps because your dog will get frustrated. When you've completed the scale, go back and do another scale. This is random from your dog's point of view. Eight steps, one step, two steps, three steps, four steps... The dog has no idea when a treat is coming and gets quite interested in the game because it's random. No one will spend hours putting money in a soda machine and winning a soda. But they will put money in a slot machine for hours because an unpredictable pay off is exciting.

Protocol for leash yanking: 

Stationary practice outside with autocheckins comes first. Your dog needs to learn that you are worth paying attention to, and how to filter distractions. Next we create a predictable pattern for walking: predictible in the distance, predictable in location, fairly predictable distraction levels, with a predictable high rate of reinforcement. Then we make walking un-predictable, first by expanding territory, then by transitioning treats to random.

Expect this to take three or four months. Be consistent. Be patient. Remember to laugh.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

Thanks for your - as usual - great insights. I probably won't be the only one printing out your post.
Now to follow through...


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## PowersPup (Aug 28, 2020)

I can relate!!!!!! Topper has always been a puller. He is a very sweet but high-drive mini who is now 16 months old. We are in Level 5 Obedience at our training center (the last level before CGC) so he can walk on a loose leash past distractions in class. But I have to work very hard for it by practically constantly engaging with him and rewarding any moments of attention. It is hard! I warm up with the "1, 2, 3" method CnT described - it really helps. So do frequent stops with automatic sits. I use these when we encounter distractions and am able to gain his attention. Turning away from a distraction is helpful, too. I think I'm on the right track with him. I truly appreciate all the support I've found on this forum since I decided to get a poodle.


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## naybaloog (May 19, 2020)

What about a flirt pole for a reinforcer instead of treats? That way your pup can chase something for walking next to you, especially if treats aren't their thing.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

A flirt pole is likely to increase arousal too high. Great tool for recalls, though.


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## Lilli_123 (Aug 31, 2021)

Here is another, very detailed method if you want to try something else that seems to work for a lot of people. The original video is in german, so the translation may not be perfect 




I think it is really helpful to have two "walking modes": one where you expect and enforce good behavior and one where you let the dog get away with some things. I find it exhausting having to pratice all the time on every walk, this way we both get some breaks. I clip the leash in two different places to let the dog know which mode we are in.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

All of my walks have multiple modes of nice loose leash, practice of bits of obedience and sniffy time. If I say free sniffy mode starts and if I say get close then loose leash mode kicks in. I do not expect heeling on walks at all. Heeling is formal and only for the context of matches, trials and training for trials.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I like the video. Notice they are going back and forth over the same area again and again. This helps a lot because the dog isn't continually environmentally distracted during practice.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I was out for training with Javelin that we have been going to most Tuesday mornings since earlier in the fall. He was really awesome today. My private trainer is also there on Tuesdays and we don't formally work together but use each other as distractions. Her current working Pom has had a history of bad experience with a black GSD that led to worry about any large black dog. Javelin just needed a new place to work with new distractions. He started out really off the wall when we went the first few times. He improved greatly then went a bit loosy goosy after a little break for Christmas and New Year. Today he collected his head wonderfully. I am very happy with how he did. Deb and I were talking about how much consistent and repetitive training is needed to get to the level we expect and how hard that is to convey to students/clients. It will need months to years of working every week to get reasonably close to having that perfect level of focus all of the time. Students/clients think if they get good performance on Monday of the first 2 steps in a 10 step activity that they will be all the way through the 10 steps by Thursday and then everything is good, NOT! Click's point about practice in the linked video repeating the same ground many times really does matter to long term habit formation.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

lily cd re said:


> All of my walks have multiple modes of nice loose leash, practice of bits of obedience and sniffy time. If I say free sniffy mode starts and if I say get close then loose leash mode kicks in. I do not expect heeling on walks at all. Heeling is formal and only for the context of matches, trials and training for trials.


Thank you for saying that!! Wish I could shout it from the rooftops.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

A few people have asked how to be more engaging. Varying the pace and walk-style is not only better physical and mental exercise, it makes us humans more interesting.

There’s a couple I see walking in our neighborhood sometimes. They have two dogs, and one is a springy, gorgeous standard poodle. They walk those dogs on about 6” of leash. Zero sniffing. No chance to just do dog stuff. Walking at a snail’s pace. It looks utterly miserable for everyone.

My guess is those dogs are a bundle of nerves when they get home.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

There was a couple with two outstandingly wonderful black spoo males who came to my club for a couple of years with the intention of showing in obedience. The wife worked really hard to develop her working relationship with her dog. The husband knew all obedience rules from the AKC rule book upside down and backwards, but he trained like he was in a trial. He stared straight in front on him and had no connection to the dog who was a wildman. Eventually they sadly stopped coming because in his inattentiveness the husband's dog attacked another at a class. It was broken up with no injuries and they weren't kicked out, but they never came back. Sadly she could have probably gotten through novice, but since her husband was clearly the boss and he decided he was too embarrassed to show his face again they never had the chance. It is miserable to see sad things like my folks and the couple taking regimented walks in your neighborhood.

It should all have an element of play to it. Deb and I also talked about the idea that each rally sign is like a trick and that the same can be said of obedience sport and for neighborhood walks.


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## PowersPup (Aug 28, 2020)

lily cd re said:


> It will need months to years of working every week to get reasonably close to having that perfect level of focus all of the time. Students/clients think if they get good performance on Monday of the first 2 steps in a 10 step activity that they will be all the way through the 10 steps by Thursday and then everything is good, NOT!


This is so true, and something most dog training videos I've watched seem to overlook. A lot of training schools may overlook it too. Maybe that's why my training school offers two-month or four-month passes that you can use for as many obedience classes as you feel like attending. I get frustrated when it takes so long for Topper to be consistent with a skill like loose-leash walking. I have to keep in mind that he has been practicing his most solid skills - sit, down, and wait at the door - multiple times a day for several months (about a year for sit and down.) I can't logically expect this nose-driven adolescent predator to walk on a loose leash in a neighborhood full of squirrels, birds (including turkeys), other dogs and wildlife that leave such enticing aromas around. 

Dig training requires a ton of patience, especially when the dog is a poodle.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Patience and persistence and consistence.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

PowersPup said:


> I can't logically expect this nose-driven adolescent predator to walk on a loose leash in a neighborhood full of squirrels, birds (including turkeys), other dogs and wildlife that leave such enticing aromas around.


Amen.

Walking an adolescent dog isn’t relaxing. You’re always looking ahead, looking around. That’s just life. Once we accepted this wasn’t a failure on our part (or Peggy’s!) walking got a lot more fun and a lot more productive.

Notably, we started consciously limiting walks to the times when we had the physical and mental stamina for it, and when we were in the right place, emotionally. Sometimes some low-stress frolicking in the backyard is a better option.

My husband still sometimes goes on hikes alone. He knows when his batteries need some re-charging, and by re-charging them, he can actually better serve Peggy in the long run.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

It's easy to get so caught up in the rules that we forget the joy.


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## Poodle2021 (Mar 14, 2021)

Thank you, everyone — this is all really helpful! We do have our moments of brilliance when he’s almost perfect but I’ll use some of these strategies to keep working! So reassuring to know that it’s not just me….


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

We started 1-2-3 Treat today 😄
Bennie isn't too shabby on a leash, but I won't count chickens as she's yet to go into an Adolescent Punk phase. If I treat liberally and really encourage her, I can get some good loose leash attentive walking around the block. It's pretty exhausting and I look forward to being able to enjoy walks with less work 😂. That said, I figured going back to some basics with @Click-N-Treat's suggestions was a brilliant idea. So 1-2-3 treat between here and the neighbours is the new game!


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## AshersMom (Aug 9, 2021)

Thomazine said:


> My boy is sixteen months old now, and we've had issues with leash pulling since we got him. We put him into puppy kindergarten, then Young Dog classes, Trick Novice, and now we're repeating the basics classes in the hopes of getting him rock solid.
> 
> Ever since we got him, we've been trying to deal with the pulling by stopping when he starts to yank, backing up a couple of feet if he continues to pull, turning around so he's forced to come back to the heel position, and going forward again once we get a loose leash. It's been thirteen months of these frustrating stop-start walks. Occasionally we'll manage to go the length of a street without stopping, but today I've walked him three times and each walk was just an exercise in frustration for both of us. A STRAY LEAF! STOP. Back up. Return to heel. Go for ten yards, and OH A BIRD. Repeat.
> 
> ...


I used to have Dobermans so I understand the pulling. I used to use a leash with regular collar, but after I got Greyhounds, I started using the RuffWear harnesses. I used the Front Range harness for them and it was fine, but Greys are easy walkers.
So, with my SPOO who is now 10-1/2 months old, I started him with the Front Range Ruffwear, but was using the back attachment. My breeder said it was better to use the front attachment and I have seen that on various training sites. It does work better--much better. But don't attach the leash to his collar. Way too much pressure on the trachea and it was the same with the Greys' Martingales. 
Recently I read in Whole Dog Journal about a great harness from Baumutt. It stops the dog from pulling because its design has a sliding ring in the front. That is the ring to use, not the back attachment. It has worked wonders to keep dogs from pulling you forward. "And the body of the harness should not slide sideways when the dog pulls. It does not interfere with the shoulder movement. The front connection tightens only on one side of the front of the harness (the side you are pulling from). It prevents the whole harness from sliding out of place under pulling pressure."
They are from Ireland, but the shipping does not take very long. I ordered one in Large for Asher (60 pounds) and it is adjustable. They have sizing instructions on their website baumutt.com. There are a lot of good features to it and it does work well. I found that the back padded part still slides a little to the opposite side, but I think it is my lack of adjusting the chest straps properly. The reviews were all good and dogs who were pullers no longer do and their kids can walk their big dogs. And it is very comfortable for him so he doesn't mind wearing it all day if needed.
It might be worth checking out their website. Although Asher is not a hard puller because I have worked with him since he was young, you might consider it. He did pull a lot when I had him attached on the back attachment of the Ruffwear harness, but the front attachment made a huge difference and it is Very strong and sturdy.
I have bad knees and cannot tolerate a dog pulling me down the road like my Dobermans did.


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## AshersMom (Aug 9, 2021)

lily cd re said:


> Oh and one other super important thing is that you be truly calm when you work on this. Leashes are like antennae for telegraphing your feelings to your dog. Lily and I had a major breakthrough when I figured that out and implemented it with inner peace. She was probably very confused by my love-hate-frustated state of being that I broadcast for much of her first year of life. I wish I could have a do over with her for that, but am grateful I held onto it for Javelin who was the easiest pup to raise and had not too many challenging moments for getting a loose leash from but not like my girlfriend.


That is so true. Watching Cesar Milan work with pulling dogs, he stressed that not pulling hard on the leash works better and it has when I tried it. The tighter I try to hold a dog back, the more he or she would pull. My main problem with Asher is that when he meets another dog that I know on his walk, he is a leaper. Just excited and wanting to play, but he is so overjoyed that he jumps over and over. Getting a bit better since he is now almost 11 months old, but something I know can happen. A work in progress.


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## Pcarperrn (Feb 10, 2021)

Thomazine said:


> My boy is sixteen months old now, and we've had issues with leash pulling since we got him. We put him into puppy kindergarten, then Young Dog classes, Trick Novice, and now we're repeating the basics classes in the hopes of getting him rock solid.
> 
> Ever since we got him, we've been trying to deal with the pulling by stopping when he starts to yank, backing up a couple of feet if he continues to pull, turning around so he's forced to come back to the heel position, and going forward again once we get a loose leash. It's been thirteen months of these frustrating stop-start walks. Occasionally we'll manage to go the length of a street without stopping, but today I've walked him three times and each walk was just an exercise in frustration for both of us. A STRAY LEAF! STOP. Back up. Return to heel. Go for ten yards, and OH A BIRD. Repeat.
> 
> ...


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## Meganf1027 (Oct 22, 2018)

This sounds exactly like my mini. She pulled, barked her head off at every dog and person she saw, and then worst of all, and what led me to a trainer, pulled out of her collar and harness when she got frustrated/wanted to get away from me. We took all the puppy and training classes and nothing worked. She wouldn’t take treats when she was distracted either. I finally found a trainer to work one on one with her and I am beyond happy with the difference within a couple of months. I started off with cutting out treats, and only hand feeding kibble. We began with marker words (“yes” = correct behavior and “good” = correct and stay in that command). I then taught heel with yes and hand motion, and eventually phasing out the hand motion. After she was solid with that, we worked on leash pressure… if she pulled, I would do small consistent tugs and walk backwards. When she followed, “yes” and kibble. We’re now incorporating an ecollar. All these steps combined has now turned her into the best walker- she walks in heel if asked or loose leash, gives eye contact regularly and best of all, she now knows what to do in situations where she feels the need to react. Obviously a condensed version of the training, but I would highly recommend looking into a private trainer. Group classes were good for sit and down, but I found didn’t help create actual day to day behavior.



Thomazine said:


> My boy is sixteen months old now, and we've had issues with leash pulling since we got him. We put him into puppy kindergarten, then Young Dog classes, Trick Novice, and now we're repeating the basics classes in the hopes of getting him rock solid.
> 
> Ever since we got him, we've been trying to deal with the pulling by stopping when he starts to yank, backing up a couple of feet if he continues to pull, turning around so he's forced to come back to the heel position, and going forward again once we get a loose leash. It's been thirteen months of these frustrating stop-start walks. Occasionally we'll manage to go the length of a street without stopping, but today I've walked him three times and each walk was just an exercise in frustration for both of us. A STRAY LEAF! STOP. Back up. Return to heel. Go for ten yards, and OH A BIRD. Repeat.
> 
> ...





Thomazine said:


> My boy is sixteen months old now, and we've had issues with leash pulling since we got him. We put him into puppy kindergarten, then Young Dog classes, Trick Novice, and now we're repeating the basics classes in the hopes of getting him rock solid.
> 
> Ever since we got him, we've been trying to deal with the pulling by stopping when he starts to yank, backing up a couple of feet if he continues to pull, turning around so he's forced to come back to the heel position, and going forward again once we get a loose leash. It's been thirteen months of these frustrating stop-start walks. Occasionally we'll manage to go the length of a street without stopping, but today I've walked him three times and each walk was just an exercise in frustration for both of us. A STRAY LEAF! STOP. Back up. Return to heel. Go for ten yards, and OH A BIRD. Repeat.
> 
> ...


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

AshersMom said:


> That is so true. Watching Cesar Milan work with pulling dogs, he stressed that not pulling hard on the leash works better and it has when I tried it. The tighter I try to hold a dog back, the more he or she would pull. My main problem with Asher is that when he meets another dog that I know on his walk, he is a leaper. Just excited and wanting to play, but he is so overjoyed that he jumps over and over. Getting a bit better since he is now almost 11 months old, but something I know can happen. A work in progress.


I would not particularly say that I think Cesar Milan is a source of great information (and I do watch him a bit). Aside from that though you can do many things to calm the overexcited behaviors. Think about Look At That for a start. Jumping around excitedly is not always about joy. It can be an expression of stress release too.


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## LuvMyStdPoodles (Feb 16, 2020)

Thomazine said:


> My boy is sixteen months old now, and we've had issues with leash pulling since we got him. We put him into puppy kindergarten, then Young Dog classes, Trick Novice, and now we're repeating the basics classes in the hopes of getting him rock solid.
> 
> Ever since we got him, we've been trying to deal with the pulling by stopping when he starts to yank, backing up a couple of feet if he continues to pull, turning around so he's forced to come back to the heel position, and going forward again once we get a loose leash. It's been thirteen months of these frustrating stop-start walks. Occasionally we'll manage to go the length of a street without stopping, but today I've walked him three times and each walk was just an exercise in frustration for both of us. A STRAY LEAF! STOP. Back up. Return to heel. Go for ten yards, and OH A BIRD. Repeat.
> 
> ...





Thomazine said:


> My boy is sixteen months old now, and we've had issues with leash pulling since we got him. We put him into puppy kindergarten, then Young Dog classes, Trick Novice, and now we're repeating the basics classes in the hopes of getting him rock solid.
> 
> Ever since we got him, we've been trying to deal with the pulling by stopping when he starts to yank, backing up a couple of feet if he continues to pull, turning around so he's forced to come back to the heel position, and going forward again once we get a loose leash. It's been thirteen months of these frustrating stop-start walks. Occasionally we'll manage to go the length of a street without stopping, but today I've walked him three times and each walk was just an exercise in frustration for both of us. A STRAY LEAF! STOP. Back up. Return to heel. Go for ten yards, and OH A BIRD. Repeat.
> 
> ...


Hi. Many of us can share your frustration. Let me start by saying that Standard Poodles ARE extremely intelligent and typically learn quite rapidly. Being “thinking” dogs, they can also be rather stubborn and/or singleminded at times. I’ve trained two sets of Standard Poodles sisters and each set presented their challenges. My first set, Laverne and Shirley, caught on quickly but did need refresher training a couple of times until age 2 to adjust their distraction to leaves, birds, children, etc. My current young lady twins, Dorothy and Blanche (The Golden Girls 😊🐩🐩) are now 10 months old. We went through puppy kindergarten and basic dog training with good results. Although I could control them individually (albeit with frequent correction at times), it was their behavior TOGETHER that ultimately led me to seek private professional HELP! My girls were growing fast and we had several episodes where I was walking them together and they started to engage in their typical play dog fighting. Unfortunately, they’d get totally carried away and literally pull me to the ground while wildly running around me. DANGEROUS doesn’t do it justice! Once I realized we needed PROFESSIONAL PRIVATE TRAINING, I did extensive research to find the “right” expert to work with us. I would HIGHLY recommend anyone having issues that you haven’t been able to correct or behaviors that could harm you/the dogs, to seek an expert to work with you individually. My girls actually boarded with the trainer and the ultimate results have been nothing short of fantastic! I must admit that I was initially reluctant to go the private training route thinking: “I’ve train MANY dogs… I can train these two…it may just take time…” I am beyond grateful that divine intervention made me realize my girls could injure us and sought professional training BEFORE something terrible actually happened. Recognizing the need for expert help is the first step. The next step is finding the right professional for your needs. The final step is trusting the trainer and being open to being trained yourself (it’s usually the owner who’s the bulk of the problem 😉). Best of luck!


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

Thomazine said:


> My boy is sixteen months old now, and we've had issues with leash pulling since we got him. We put him into puppy kindergarten, then Young Dog classes, Trick Novice, and now we're repeating the basics classes in the hopes of getting him rock solid.
> 
> Ever since we got him, we've been trying to deal with the pulling by stopping when he starts to yank, backing up a couple of feet if he continues to pull, turning around so he's forced to come back to the heel position, and going forward again once we get a loose leash. It's been thirteen months of these frustrating stop-start walks. Occasionally we'll manage to go the length of a street without stopping, but today I've walked him three times and each walk was just an exercise in frustration for both of us. A STRAY LEAF! STOP. Back up. Return to heel. Go for ten yards, and OH A BIRD. Repeat.
> 
> ...


I have offered this information on correct equipment for dog training. While everyone likes to condemn the use of a nylon/cotton braided, correctly sized and used choke collar, it works!!! After 40 years of owning and training GSDs, SPOOs, Golden Retrievers, SPOOs are easy walkers with this collar, I still use today. One correction and they come to walk with their nose tip in the palm of my backward facing hand. In heel position, to boot! My dogs get excited and try to put their noses into the collar before I can face it correctly in my hand. They know when I'm getting it ready that they are going out somewhere. It is not for everyday use and you don't put tags of any kind on it. It is for any kind of TRAINING ONLY! I'm attaching a picture. You measure around the neck right behind the ears. Add 1"-1+1/2" extra to length. You do not want any stretch in the collar. You need to possibly get 2 if you train with a longer coat. It is extremely important that the collar stays in the correct position on the neck/throat. Everyone worries about injury to the dog. Injuries are caused by inexperience & incorrect use. No sugar coating from me. My dogs correct themselves and behave. If they pull, the collar reminds them not to. That is it's only job for any working command. If it is on backwards, the collar will not release correctly and then you have injuries because you, the handler, did not place it on correctly. It is important to find a trainer who knows how to train with this collar. If you can't find one who recommends it either, g








ood luck, you'll never get the training you deserve for your money. The picture is the direction the collar fits over the head. Clockwise. The tug over the Top Of the neck. Never under. The collar should never fit loosely.


Thomazine said:


> My boy is sixteen months old now, and we've had issues with leash pulling since we got him. We put him into puppy kindergarten, then Young Dog classes, Trick Novice, and now we're repeating the basics classes in the hopes of getting him rock solid.
> 
> Ever since we got him, we've been trying to deal with the pulling by stopping when he starts to yank, backing up a couple of feet if he continues to pull, turning around so he's forced to come back to the heel position, and going forward again once we get a loose leash. It's been thirteen months of these frustrating stop-start walks. Occasionally we'll manage to go the length of a street without stopping, but today I've walked him three times and each walk was just an exercise in frustration for both of us. A STRAY LEAF! STOP. Back up. Return to heel. Go for ten yards, and OH A BIRD. Repeat.
> 
> ...


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## Dawn Harkness (Jan 11, 2011)

This has been a great discussion. I have Flynn, 17 month male spoo, & we are in Quebec Canada. When training should have begun, everything was shut down due to covid. Even though I have trained 4 previous dogs, (starting in 1979), Flynn is proving to be my most difficult to date. First 3 dogs were using old training method of choke collars & training started very young. 4th dog, female spoo we got at 18months old had been kept by the breeder for breeding purposes, but due to husbands heart attack she was no longer able to continue her business, & was selling her unbred dogs. She was a challenge as she was not socialised or toilet trained. I did a lot of work in classes, using some treats (altho she was not really interested in them), & lots of love once I had gained her trust. So when it comes to treat training, I am a learner. First 3 dogs trained in Canada, 4th dog in TN, so big weather difference!
Flynn is very receptive to treat training, but our present weather is NOT! We did a basic class in the Fall, & of course he looks like the poorly behave dog when the others are low key retreivers. But he would work well in area out of sight of other dogs & did perform very well for the test so got his certificate. But the loose leash walking class skills did not carry over to street walking. We did manage to do a service dog class in Nov/Dec, but weather wise that was not great for outdoor treat training, so we are now greatly slowed down. On days when the weather allows a bare hand to give treats, we do that, but on anything under 10C, 50F, its a walk around the block without, or my husband will take him down to frozen river & let off leash for good run or I will take him to dog park for a good run & play.
I have bought membership to the K9 Training Institute, - in which you follow video training, at your pace. They open one class a week, which went well til it got to outside, so we are slowed at that, Which is OK now that I have dropped my expectations. My first 3 were companion dog trained at this point, & my first was competing in companion dog excellence. Oh, it was nice to be a young thing then! Now, I just want a dog that wont pull my over on a walk. I figure by next fall winter he should be great, ha ha.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Since I got alerts for likes on a couple of my posts here this morning I just came back over to this thread and carefully reread most of the thread. I am very disturbed by some of what I see now. I was concerned to see various mentions of ecollars (and other specific tools) for basic obedience since I think they are only used in very few specific situations that are going to save lives of livestock or other animals. I do have ecollars but never use the shock mode and would never have a client use one since I never encounter a life or death sort of situation of the level where they would be needed. Also I wish that people would not offer advice with a guarantee that their method is going to work without having seen first hand what is happening.. If you have not seen the unacceptable behaviors in person and had time to get to know the client and the dog well I don't think anyone can guarantee that any particular method will work. I would not offer that sort of guarantee sight unseen, but offer ideally two or more suggestions if I haven't seen what is happening and I am a certified trainer.


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## Meganf1027 (Oct 22, 2018)

To clarify- the method that I was using with verbal cues was with the same trainer. It was a building block to make sure we had a clear communication in place. I did not just “shock” her and expect her to comply. And since I didn’t specify in my post, you have no clue the type of collar I’m using or the settings/mode I use it in. I took 6+ months worth of positive only reinforcement trainings with her, and at the last session I went to, she pulled out of her harness and ran off in the parking lot. I had a dog hit and killed by a car (while in her vets possession) so I’m sorry, but I’m not risking her life. Different dogs respond to different methods and right now I have a very happy, well behaved dog who I can confidently take into the world. I never once guaranteed this works for everyone, all I did was explain what I’m doing and recommend one on one training.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

removed specific response


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## Meganf1027 (Oct 22, 2018)

Response edited


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## Ashlie12345 (4 mo ago)

I just used the Baumutt harness for the first time on our walk this evening and I was shocked that my 10 month Spoo was literally right next to me on almost the entire walk. It took less than 50 feet of walking for him to figure out what I wanted with this Harness on. He got lots of treats and praise. Yes, I love this harness.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Oops. This is an old thread. I’m going to close it to avoid any confusion.

Feel free to start a new one to discuss harnesses.


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