# Benadryl before rabies vax



## Girlnotboy (May 28, 2014)

She has a major prolonged/probably lifelong allergic or autoimmune reaction after surgery manifesting in bilateral symmetric hair loss. Patches of hair are missing on her ears, thighs, and knees. It's been 4 months since the surgery. No vet has been able to diagnose or treat it.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

At what age did she have her first rabies vaccine? Google "rabies vaccine induced vasculitis"


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## Girlnotboy (May 28, 2014)

Thanks for your reply. Exactly 1 year ago at about 12 months. She came from a rabies-free country, and she only got the rabies vax to come to the US to live with us. But her hair loss occurred after surgery, not the vax.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

With rabies vaccine induced vasculitis the hair loss occurs about 2 months give or take after the vaccine.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Personally I wouldn't vaccinate her if she were my dog. I would titer first and think about the pros and cons if it came back that she has no immunity. Rabies vaccines are known for delayed reaction especially in toy poodles and her issues could have possibly been from the first one she got. If you are set on vaccinating her I would talk to your vet about giving her something before. Benadryl will help with any immediate allergic reaction but it's not going to help with a delayed immune mediated reaction.


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## Girlnotboy (May 28, 2014)

Sorry, I miscalculated. First rabies vax was exactly 12 months ago, so she was 6 months. This was before we got her.

She developed hair loss the weeks following surgery at about 16 months. She's actually 20 months now, not 18 months (born 8/2/13). I think 10 months from first rabies vax to hair loss would be an extremely delayed reaction to be attributable to the vax. I'm certain it was from the surgery. I'm wondering if there's anything else I can do to prevent a reaction?


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## Girlnotboy (May 28, 2014)

She had significant personality changes after surgery. My uncle vaccinated her and spayed her, and she was fine after both.

She was a different dog for weeks after surgery. She was indifferent--the opposite of her natural temperament.

Now she's basically the same girl she was before surgery. I can't stand the thought of something else badly affecting her, but the rabies vax isn't optional. It was hard enough to find a vet who carried TF vax, and they're switching vaccines (probably to something cheaper), so I had to request that they save the TF for my tiny girl. They're not going to be receptive to titering, but I'll ask. Thanks.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Some delayed reactions can happen even a year after the vaccine is given. That is why they are so hard to diagnose. Like I said I would titer first especially if she had already had it twice. If her immune system is already in overdrive giving the vaccine could make it get even worse. I don't know if there is anything your vet could give her to help with immune issues before vaccinating other than recommend not doing the vaccine. I know I have been told to never give mine another vaccine. Definitely talk to your vet and see what his/her opinion is. Maybe if vaccinating is a must making sure the vaccine is killed and not a modified live would help.


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## Girlnotboy (May 28, 2014)

She's had the rabies vax once. This will be her second. It's inactivated virus. Of all the different rabies vaxes, this one seems "best" on paper. I chose the 3-year to decrease the number of vax exposures. But I share your concern about her immune system. May I ask why you were told not to give yours anymore vaxes? I noticed you also have a tiny toy. Were you referring to her?


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## Girlnotboy (May 28, 2014)

I should mention that she had anesthesia for her spay (obviously) and had no problem. It was something about the obstruction surgery that almost killed her. I think she was overanesthetized. She was in perfect health and had incredible temperament before the second surgery. The reason for the obstruction wasn't an underlying condition. She ate a ton of something she shouldn't have. My fault. I didn't know she'd gotten into it, stepped away for a few minutes, and that was all it took. A larger dog would've been fine because it was supposed to be edible, but at the time she was closer to 2 lb. than 3, and it was too much too fast for her tiny body.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

My Misha weighs between 3 1/2 to 4 pounds, usually closer to the 4lb or just below. She has microvascular dysplasia and had a reaction to the Rabies Vaccine. Because she has a compromised immune system, my vet has recommended she not be vaccinated. The law here won't allow it so I am fighting it and I just keep paying the fines. 

I have been told reactions such as Misha's are very rare, yet Poddlecraz#1 has her little Killa that has reacted and my own chihuahua has also gotten vasculitis from the vaccine.

It is a horrible decision, follow the law and put their life at risk or don't. Because of this my dogs are not brought out in public. I believe in vaccination (though I think we WAY over vaccinate) and I wouldn't want to expose any other animals or people to problems. So my dogs stay inside my home, it is so scary with the little ones!


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Yes I have three tiny toys that have reacted to the rabies vaccine. My little boy wasn't as bad he recovered quickly. My oldest girl got a golf ball size lump on her hip with her first one. It went away in a few months. Due to that reaction the vet gave her less of the vaccine in her next one but she still reacted about 3 months later. She started losing hair on her hip, and got lesions all over her face and ears, and the skin on her feet got thick and yellow. With some steroid therapy and a lot of care to keep away secondary infections she eventually got over it. Now with Killa we are still fighting. She has horrible skin allergies we don't think this is due to the vaccine. She has lesions on her face where her eye was removed (from a congenital defect) as well as on the tip of her ears. One has gotten so bad it has split her ear in half vertically for about an inch. When she goes in for a dental cleaning we will be cutting that part of her ear off in hopes to rid the damaged vessels. The vet also wants to cut the skin off her eye socket and re stitch healthy skin over but I don't think she has enough existing skin to do that. She is also going to be out on Apoquel when it is released again in hopes to control her allergies. I was told not to give Branna a rabies vaccine again because most likely she will have another reaction and It could very possibly be worse next time. It was even noted in her medical file that she can't have rabies vaccines anymore. Thankfully I haven't gotten to the point of having to deal with the law issue, but I will sell my soul to the Devil before I give her another vaccine as long as her titer shows she is still immune. I refuse to put her through that misery again.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

The vaccine ought to last longer than 18 months....probably for at least for 7 years. I'd do titers. Any law that doesn't recognize titers needs to be broken. Laws that make people kill their dogs need to be broken. I would not do this vaccine at only 18 months past the last one.


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## Girlnotboy (May 28, 2014)

Thank you all for your insight. I'm so sorry (and scared) to hear of these terrible vaccine reactions. Upon further research it seems the TF Ft. Dodge vaccine has also caused severe reactions, so safety is far from guaranteed. We don't have the financial or emotional resources to go through another harrowing experience involving her. She only just got back to being her old self personality-wise. It's not as if immunity suddenly drops to zero when 365 days have passed. Since it's only been 1 year since her first and so far only rabies vax, I will do titers instead. I'm expecting the vet to refuse, so I may have to expand my search out of town. How much should I expect the rabies titer test to cost? I'm looking for a test that gives the specific titer instead of a binary answer. Is there a gold standard?

I'm not anti-vaccine at all. I'm pro-vaccine, but the need should be based on science not a yearly 1-size-fits-all rule Horses get 2 mL and cats and dogs get 1 mL. Clearly weight is a factor here.

Is it better for a vaccine to be administered subcutaneously versus intramuscularly?


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

If your vet is that against doing titers I would definitely search for a new one. Titers really don't cost much at all but many places will bump up the price to keep owners from doing them and just doing the vaccine. I just had all the prices of titers written down somewhere through our lab which is Abaxis, but I can not remember where I put them. I know they weren't over $150 if even that much. Many were like around $49 ect. Wish I could find that paper dang it! Of course these are just lab prices and are bumped up slightly for the veterinary office to gain some profit. Hopefully someone who has had titers done will know. I'm not anti vaccine either but I definitely am anti vaccine if they still have immunity and the vaccine causes issues. You know Many of the ingredients in vaccines are deadly chemicals like formaldehyde! Even in human vaccines! I have always done vaccines subq never intramuscular. Sometimes a dog might jump or move and it can go IM but never on purpose. You risk hitting nerves and causing more issues when doing vaccines IM and they are just as effective going subq so why risk it.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

You may be able to send a blood sample to Hemopet in California for your titers.


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