# Peggy Sick - Two Classes in a Row



## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Poor Peggy! I would definitely bring it up to the trainer. It's certainly possible that she is licking a toxic cleaner. Generally they are not acutely toxic when dry but possibly they are cleaning right before the class. I would be surprised if it is the barking puppy. She has had worse shocks before I'm sure. Misha occasionally gets bad diarrhea if he eats a lot of grass. He has woken me up at night barking to go out when it happened. I know to listen to that bark!


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

Are any other dogs in the class showing the same symptoms?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Raindrops said:


> Poor Peggy! I would definitely bring it up to the trainer. It's certainly possible that she is licking a toxic cleaner. Generally they are not acutely toxic when dry but possibly they are cleaning right before the class. I would be surprised if it is the barking puppy. She has had worse shocks before I'm sure. Misha occasionally gets bad diarrhea if he eats a lot of grass. He has woken me up at night barking to go out when it happened. I know to listen to that bark!


I slept on the couch last night because I hurt my shoulder and needed the extra cushioning. Thaaaank goodness!!! Otherwise we probably wouldn't have heard her. This might be a good time to move her crate to the bedroom.

I just emailed our trainer. Thank you. She's such an awesome person, I know she's going to take this seriously and try to get to the bottom of it.

One dog actually wasn't in class this week because she had such bad diarrhea after last class and our trainer gave her work to do at home instead. Really not feeling like a coincidence. 

Another thing I thought of: We've been doing part of our class outside on a nearby laneway and a long stretch of sad-looking grass. So no fertilizers or herbicides, I don't think. But it's in an industrial park and there's lots of manufacturing nearby. I suppose someone could be dumping chemicals.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Could even be both. My guess would be something she is swallowing, though, especially if she is not the only dog suffering. Poppy's tum was always made worse by stress, but it usually only lasted around 24 hours. Since she's been on a strictly controlled diet episodes have been fewer - but of course her life has been less stressful through lock down. I hope you find out the cause soon.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dianaleez said:


> Are any other dogs in the class showing the same symptoms?


Yep! Just mentioned that in response to Raindrops before I saw your question. One dog missed yesterday's class because she had such bad diarrhea after last week's class. Our trainer thought it might have been too much stress for her (another under-socialized covid puppy) so she told her to stay home and just do homework this week.

The previous week, a sweet poodle got sick the day after class and hasn't recovered. He hasn't been back. But Peggy was fine after the class he was in, so that might just be a coincidence. Maybe?


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Yikes!!!! Definitely sounds like something chemical.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> Could even be both. My guess would be something she is swallowing, though, especially if she is not the only dog suffering. Poppy's tum was always made worse by stress, but it usually only lasted around 24 hours. Since she's been on a strictly controlled diet episodes have been fewer - but of course her life has been less stressful through lock down. I hope you find out the cause soon.


That's what I was thinking, that stress upset would be fairly immediate and short lived. And Peggy was such a stressed puppy but never had diarrhea. 

Sigh. She's such a stinky snoozing bundle right now. Breaks my heart. 

I know how much you've felt this with Poppy.  Sending hugs.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Hopefully the trainer takes it seriously and looks into safer methods of cleaning. Doesn't sound like a coincidence.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Yikes!!!! Definitely sounds like something chemical.


Yeah, as I'm typing this all out, it's sounding worse and worse. Ugh.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Raindrops said:


> Hopefully the trainer takes it seriously and looks into safer methods of cleaning. Doesn't sound like a coincidence.


I wonder if dogs from her other classes have been sick... Hoping I hear back from her today.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Poor you and poor Peggy. Cleaner could be a possibility. Suddenly eating a bunch of treats, as one does in training, is also a possibility. I know you said Peggy has a strong digestive system, but these things can change. Standard poodles are a bit more prone to allergies and autoimmune disorders than many other breeds.


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## Fenris-wolf (Apr 17, 2018)

I'm sorry Peggy isn't feeling well. It sounds like it's chemicals. I wouldn't take Peggy back until it's been solved.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

cowpony said:


> Poor you and poor Peggy. Cleaner could be a possibility. Suddenly eating a bunch of treats, as one does in training, is also a possibility. I know you said Peggy has a strong digestive system, but these things can change. Standard poodles are a bit more prone to allergies and autoimmune disorders than many other breeds.


I definitely considered the training treats, but we've been pretty lazy with them lately, and she hasn't gotten anything special in class. But you're right - the volume is definitely higher. So maybe?


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I hope she's feeling better soon. Poor you and poor Peggy Sue.

It does sound like a chemical - I know that both my training clubs had huge discussions about which products would be safe to use around dogs.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Fenris-wolf said:


> I'm sorry Peggy isn't feeling well. It sounds like it's chemicals. I wouldn't take Peggy back until it's been solved.


Our trainer said she hasn't been using any on the floor, but she did notice a dead patch of weeds where we've been walking. She's going to ask the groundskeeper if they were sprayed, and she asked if we'd get a fecal specimen from Peggy over to our vet. She wants to cover the cost.

Unfortunately (or fortunately?) Peggy seems to be done for now, and my husband hosed down the yard this morning.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Skylar said:


> I hope she's feeling better soon. Poor you and poor Peggy Sue.
> 
> It does sound like a chemical - I know that both my training clubs had huge discussions about which products would be safe to use around dogs.


Our trainer thought maybe we put treats down on a table she disinfected right before class. We did use the table, but only for our treat bags. I can't imagine enough would transfer to our hands to make Peggy sick. Especially since that stuff dries so fast.

Someone also disinfected a clicker for us. But that was just at this week's class. Wouldn't explain last week.

She hasn't been disinfecting the floor.

I'm leaning towards something on the grounds. I wouldn't be surprised if someone sprayed and didn't put a sign up.


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

The last time Fluffy had the poops like poor Peggy, one of our walking paths had just been sprayed with pesticides. It took me a bit to piece together our situation, as we haven’t had to deal with this before. I’d wager that’s what Peggy’s issue is.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

Aaww -poor Peggy. I hope that they get to the bottom of this soon. I'd ski\p classes until this is resolved.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

FloofyPoodle said:


> The last time Fluffy had the poops like poor Peggy, one of our walking paths had just been sprayed with pesticides. It took me a bit to piece together our situation, as we haven’t had to deal with this before. I’d wager that’s what Peggy’s issue is.


Grrrrrr. That makes me SO MAD. And sad. 

I wonder how many animals get treated needlessly each year for all sorts of possible ailments, possibly doing even _more_ harm to their poor bodies, when it's actually pesticide exposure.

Glad Fluffy was okay.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Asta's Mom said:


> Aaww -poor Peggy. I hope that they get to the bottom of this soon. I'd ski\p classes until this is resolved.


I've been going back and forth with our dear trainer all day. She's wondering if it might be the hardcore sanitizer she's required to make everyone use at the start and end of each session. 

To be honest, there are soooo many possibilities, I'm not sure how we'll ever know.


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## ShamrockPoodle (Jan 22, 2017)

Aww-I hope you figure out the cause soon and that she is feeling better!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

ShamrockPoodle said:


> Aww-I hope you figure out the cause soon and that she is feeling better!


Thank you! She's in her crate for the night and I can tell she's restless, which is very un-Peggy. Usually she's out like a light.


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## bluegirl1997 (Aug 10, 2019)

Someone else on this forum mentioned (years ago) that their dog drank water from a pond and got a bacterial gastrointestinal infection... could it be from a walk or hike you took? Altho 3 dogs from one class does sound like it’s from the class


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

bluegirl1997 said:


> Someone else on this forum mentioned (years ago) that their dog drank water from a pond and got a bacterial gastrointestinal infection... could it be from a walk or hike you took? Altho 3 dogs from one class does sound like it’s from the class
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We were actually thinking it might be the water at class, as we fill up her bowl from the sink there. But I think bacteria would cause much longer illness. 

Even though the diarrhea was more urgent this time around, and there was a LOT in a short amount of time, it was over faster. After last class, she actually leaked a bit in the house a few days later. This time around, she already seems back to her old self, 24 hours from onset.

So mysterious. 

I keep coming back to the volume of training treats, as this seems like the simplest explanation. But if it were the treats, I feel like she'd have gotten sick right away. Or at least that night. I'm not sure why it would take until the next day.

Peggy says, "Thanks everyone for helping us try and figure this out! Now can someone please fill up this pool for me?"


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Grrrrrr. That makes me SO MAD. And sad.
> 
> I wonder how many animals get treated needlessly each year for all sorts of possible ailments, possibly doing even _more_ harm to their poor bodies, when it's actually pesticide exposure.
> 
> Glad Fluffy was okay.


I know. I wish they were banned, or at least kept away until desperate situations. I worry about kids getting it in their mouths, we have so many younger children here. And we’re right by a nature preserve, so I hope it doesn’t affect the wildlife... At least they only seem to spray it irregularly.

Glad Peggy seems to be doing better!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

FloofyPoodle said:


> I know. I wish they were banned, or at least kept away until desperate situations. I worry about kids getting it in their mouths, we have so many younger children here. And we’re right by a nature preserve, so I hope it doesn’t affect the wildlife... At least they only seem to spray it irregularly.
> 
> Glad Peggy seems to be doing better!


I worry, too. Spraying parks, as well as hiking trails and rec paths, seems like common practise in the U.S. 

Peggy finally pooped for the first time since yesterday's horrible episode, and it was just all yellow bile and mucous. She's definitely still dealing with whatever this is. I don't think we'll be returning to class this week.


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## Teddy’s mom (May 20, 2020)

Poor Peggy and u! That definitely doesn’t seem like a coincidence! It could any of those things or all of those things. How frustrating. I’m sorry 😐


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## Teddy’s mom (May 20, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I worry, too. Spraying parks, as well as hiking trails and rec paths, seems like common practise in the U.S.
> 
> Peggy finally pooped for the first time since yesterday's horrible episode, and it was just all yellow bile and mucous. She's definitely still dealing with whatever this is. I don't think we'll be returning to class this week.


Awe poor Peggy 😔


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Teddy’s mom said:


> Poor Peggy and u! That definitely doesn’t seem like a coincidence! It could any of those things or all of those things. How frustrating. I’m sorry 😐


Thanks, Teddy's Mom.

We're going to start ruling out the many possibilities, beginning first with skipping Thursday's class. If it's something like IBD, it could come in waves, so I need to be sure she's not just going to get sick again on Friday, regardless of what we do the day before.

If she's fine, I'll give it another day or two to be safe, then do an intense one-hour training session, with a typical allotment of treats, and see how that goes. 

I feel better having a plan in place. It's hard seeing her like this.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Yellow bile and mucus on the poop, and vomitting sounds a LOT like Annie's recent experience with herbicide... If it continues, I'd be calling the vet.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Yellow bile and mucus on the poop, and vomitting sounds a LOT like Annie's recent experience with herbicide... If it continues, I'd be calling the vet.


No vomiting, thankfully. And she's got a good appetite, bright eyes, drinking fine, wanting to play—all the signs of a healthy poodle. 

When it happened last week, she was lethargic for a few days. This time around it's just the diarrhea (so far). But it's gone from urgent big messy piles yesterday to almost pure slimy liquid today. 

TMI, I know. Sorry.


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

Still sick today? smh. I hope she's completely better in the morning.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Vita said:


> Still sick today? smh. I hope she's completely better in the morning.


I think someone forgot to tell her she's sick! She's currently prancing around the backyard without a care in the world. Just tried to steal the garden hose, and now it's time for zoomies.

Hoping her tummy catches up with the rest of her tomorrow.


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## Teddy’s mom (May 20, 2020)

It helps when they act fine. Gives u hope that it will b ok and this to shall pass. Maybe vet could give her a small dose of meds to calm to gut. My vet had done that a few times for Teddy when his gut was inflamed and pooped out snotty mess. Looked like an alien. I was up all night googling dog poop. I know way more about dog poop than I ever thot I would. But we love em and we wanna help them feel better. My vet said the slime is the intestine sluffing off the hurt or sick that’s trying to go thru. Sorry for the graphic poop talk. Again it’s been my world lately. 😬


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Teddy’s mom said:


> It helps when they act fine. Gives u hope that it will b ok and this to shall pass. Maybe vet could give her a small dose of meds to calm to gut. My vet had done that a few times for Teddy when his gut was inflamed and pooped out snotty mess. Looked like an alien. I was up all night googling dog poop. I know way more about dog poop than I ever thot I would. But we love em and we wanna help them feel better. My vet said the slime is the intestine sluffing off the hurt or sick that’s trying to go thru. Sorry for the graphic poop talk. Again it’s been my world lately. 😬


Lol. For two people without kids, my husband and I also spend a considerable amount of time talking about poop! Something I always tell friends when they're contemplating getting a puppy: "Just know that at some point you're going to have to pull poo out of his or her butt. It may or may not be attached to a long human hair."

If Peggy's not back to normal on Monday, I'll be taking a fecal sample to the vet at our trainer's request. And if she gets dehydrated again like she was yesterday, I'll ask for a prescription to slow things down a bit.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Ah, the Poo Diaries... I'm glad Peggy is feeling more herself. Poppy did a Good Poo this morning, after 10 days or so of diarrhoea paste and 3 days of Metronidazole, but the last four weeks have produced nearly every variation of colour and texture, bar the horrors of actual blood. Since she was showing signs of dehydration earlier in the year I now add a little water to every meal, so her four meals a day now each consist of Royal Canin canned hepatic diet, cooked chicken breast, a dollop of canned pumpkin, a splash of water and a tiny dab of digestive paste, which my sister reckoned looked just like chocolate sauce on a sundae!

If Peggy can't tolerate pumpkin have you tried her with sweet potato? Same benefits, different vegetable.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> If Peggy can't tolerate pumpkin have you tried her with sweet potato? Same benefits, different vegetable.


It's just pure yellow liquid now, and more frequent, so I've been sticking to the most bulking, digestible, bland thing I can think of: Overcooked white rice, chicken breast, and water. Unfortunately, this morning she's even turning her nose up at that, so we're handfeeding her a bit here and there. She doesn't even want to lick one of her beloved ice cubes.

But! She did just beg for my cinnamon roll, so that feels positive. Whatever this is ran its course in three days last week, so I'm hoping that will be the case again. We're currently on day 3.

Love to Sophy and Poppy from Peggy and me.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Just catching up. Sorry you and Peggy are going through this. I hope you're able to identify the cause and that she heals quickly.


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## Porkchop (Sep 2, 2019)

I’m so sorry Peggy is still having symptoms. Poor girl. It sucks not to know what’s causing this. 
I hope she’s back to her ice cube loving self with some normal poop tomorrow.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Liz said:


> Just catching up. Sorry you and Peggy are going through this. I hope you're able to identify the cause and that she heals quickly.


Thanks, Liz. This is the first time she's really been sick since she was 9 weeks old. I love that her spirit still shines. She's out watching my husband rinse off his kayak right now, with all her usual enthusiasm for "helping."


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Probably best to make a vet appointment as soon as they are open - in my experience that often triggers an instant recovery, and if she is still unwell you can pick something up to help settle her. Poppy has now done two consecutive Good Poos...


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Yellow bile poo is scary to me after Annie's last adventure. If she isn't drinking or eating and is having bad diahrea.... doggy electrolyte solution by syringe in the mouth is what my vet suggested.

1 cup warm water, 1/4 tsp of salt and baking soda, 1 tsp maple syrup or honey is I believe the recipe she recommended. 

She also recommended pinching the back of the neck and dropping it. If it is "springy" dog is fine, if "slack" and takes a while to bounce back, dog is dehydrated.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Porkchop said:


> I’m so sorry Peggy is still having symptoms. Poor girl. It sucks not to know what’s causing this.
> I hope she’s back to her ice cube loving self with some normal poop tomorrow.


Thank you.  Just sooooooo many variables. It's overwhelming trying to figure this stuff out.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Yellow bile poo is scary to me after Annie's last adventure. If she isn't drinking or eating and is having bad diahrea.... doggy electrolyte solution by syringe in the mouth is what my vet suggested.
> 
> 1 cup warm water, 1/4 tsp of salt and baking soda, 1 tsp maple syrup or honey is I believe the recipe she recommended.
> 
> She also recommended pinching the back of the neck and dropping it. If it is "springy" dog is fine, if "slack" and takes a while to bounce back, dog is dehydrated.


Thank you for that recipe! I've gotten some salt into her, via handfed chicken and mushy rice, but we're letting her lick a bit of local honey right now. She says an enthusiastic THANK YOU!

I'm monitoring her closely for dehydration. She seems okay in that regard (better than Friday) but I know how quickly it can come on with those awful liquid poos.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> Probably best to make a vet appointment as soon as they are open - in my experience that often triggers an instant recovery, and if she is still unwell you can pick something up to help settle her. Poppy has now done two consecutive Good Poos...


Yay Poppy! I am going to do the happiest dance when I see a Good Peggy Poo in our yard.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

"Are you telling everyone about my poos again?"


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## Teddy’s mom (May 20, 2020)

Is she doing any better? Teddy loves ice cubes too!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Teddy’s mom said:


> Is she doing any better? Teddy loves ice cubes too!


Friday, Saturday, and Sunday have all been relatively the same: A ton of urgent morning diarrhea, lethargic with little bursts of energy throughout the day, and then _really_ feisty in the evening before she crashes. (Tonight was the first time in months that she refused to come inside when I called.)

She had no appetite today, which made me think she was getting worse, but then around 7pm she frantically began picking all the chicken out of her chicken & rice to gobble down. So I hope that's a good sign.

If it's like last week's illness, she'll be back to normal tomorrow. I've got all my fingers crossed.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

Poor Peggy! Her upset tummy reminded me of an incident we had in a dog class years ago. There was a woman who brought two dogs to class... Oprah and Dr. Phil were their names. The woman's voice had only one volume and it was LOUD. The people with more sensitive dogs kept moving away from the woman because their dogs were shaking and cowering. Picture a class of fifteen people with ten of them trying not to get stuck next to the loud woman. Not only was she loud, she was also quite verbose. Her philosophy seemed to be, "Why use one word when ten will do?!" There were only two dogs in the class that were not upset by this woman's litany of shouted verbiage. Yeah, Oprah and Dr. Phil were totally oblivious to their owner. They must have learned to ignore her as a method of self preservation.The rest of us were quite happy to see the class end. We saw a lot of lip licking and yawning from the dogs during that class. Hope Peggy gets back to her normal happy self soon.


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## Teddy’s mom (May 20, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Friday, Saturday, and Sunday have all been relatively the same: A ton of urgent morning diarrhea, lethargic with little bursts of energy throughout the day, and then _really_ feisty in the evening before she crashes. (Tonight was the first time in months that she refused to come inside when I called.)
> 
> She had no appetite today, which made me think she was getting worse, but then around 7pm she frantically began picking all the chicken out of her chicken & rice to gobble down. So I hope that's a good sign.
> 
> If it's like last week's illness, she'll be back to normal tomorrow. I've got all my fingers crossed.


And toes!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Charmed said:


> We saw a lot of lip licking and yawning from the dogs during that class.


1st: Oprah and Dr. Phil made me lol! I can't imagine being able to call those dogs with a straight face.

2nd: Do you think it's possible the _loud_ new barking dog (we'll call her BD) in class could stress Peggy so much it might make her sick?

BD wasn't in the first class of the session, and Peggy didn't get sick after that one. Another dog did, but his symptoms are so severe, the vets are now considering meningitis.

BD joined the second class, after which both Peggy and another dog got severe diarrhea. That dog didn't return for the third class, and I have no idea how she's doing now. 

The only other dog in class has been fine, but she's pretty unique. She was imported from overseas and was entirely unfazed by the air travel experience. Confidence through the roof and an extremely hardy breed.

But the barking really is intense. It's so shrill and stressed sounding, it gives me the same feeling as a visit to the Humane Society. And my husband commented midway through class that he's never seen Peggy hold her ears back like that.

She still did her best to focus on us, but it was obviously affecting her. She's never been around a dog like that. Certainly not confined in an indoor space with one.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Teddy’s mom said:


> And toes!


So far no poos! Keep those toes crossed!


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## Teddy’s mom (May 20, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> So far no poos! Keep those toes crossed!


I will cross it all if it means no poops! That’s a tough several days!


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## Porkchop (Sep 2, 2019)

Good! Hopefully sweet Peggy is on the mend now. Fingers and toes crossed.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Porkchop said:


> Good! Hopefully sweet Peggy is on the mend now. Fingers and toes crossed.


No change.  We were so excited when she didn't go first thing this morning, but she's since had three urgent yellow mucousy liquid poops and is back to the same low energy she's had for the past three days. I tried scraping up a sample for the vet. Hoping they can work with it.

Was really hoping it would resolve quickly like last week.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear that, Robin. Thanks for keeping us posted.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Liz said:


> I'm sorry to hear that, Robin. Thanks for keeping us posted.


Grateful to have this space to talk it through!


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> No change.  We were so excited when she didn't go first thing this morning, but she's since had three urgent yellow mucousy liquid poops and is back to the same low energy she's had for the past three days. I tried scraping up a sample for the vet. Hoping they can work with it.
> 
> Was really hoping it would resolve quickly like last week.


Maybe it's one of those things that suddenly gets worse before it gets better? Fingers (and toes) crossed that she gets better soon! I know it's no fun to have a poopy dog .


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## Fenris-wolf (Apr 17, 2018)

Fingers, toes, and paws crossed. I'm so sorry to hear that Peggy isn't feeling better. How soon can she go to the vet?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Fenris-wolf said:


> Fingers, toes, and paws crossed. I'm so sorry to hear that Peggy isn't feeling better. How soon can she go to the vet?


We dropped off a poop sample today. My husband forgot to ask when we'll hear back, but I'll follow up tomorrow.

The weirdest thing today is that she's been obsessed with _licking_ a rock. Even when I went out to play with her, which would usually have her running around, collecting all her balls, she just wanted to lay with her weird rock.


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## Fenris-wolf (Apr 17, 2018)

PeggyTheParti said:


> We dropped off a poop sample today. My husband forgot to ask when we'll hear back, but I'll follow up tomorrow.
> 
> The weirdest thing today is that she's been obsessed with _licking_ a rock. Even when I went out to play with her, which would usually have her running around, collecting all her balls, she just wanted to lay with her weird rock.


Okay

What????? That's so weird. Do you think it's okay if she licks it? Can you tell me more about this rock please?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Fenris-wolf said:


> Okay
> 
> What????? That's so weird. Do you think it's okay if she licks it? Can you tell me more about this rock please?


Lol. I present to you, Peggy and her rock:










Note that it is wet from being licked.

I wonder if it's because her stomach's upset. I know licking can soothe nausea. Or maybe she's deficient in some sort of mineral because of all the diarrhea.

Or...maybe she just loves that rock.


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## Fenris-wolf (Apr 17, 2018)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Lol. I present to you, Peggy and her rock:
> 
> View attachment 468343
> 
> ...


I didn't know licking could soothe nausea. I was wondering if she is deficient in something too.

Maybe she wants her rock named after her😧 Peggy Rock.


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## Porkchop (Sep 2, 2019)

No! I’m so sad for Peggy and you (and your husband). I hate to hear your girl still isn’t fully back to her energetic, silly self. 

I kind of hope there’s something in her poop that shows she has a curable infection that can be treated with medication for a week, if anything. Those yellow mucous poops definitely are irritation of her bowels. 

Ugh.

I don’t know if it’s a possibility, but did she maybe get one of your hair ties, a sock, or something she quickly devoured outside you didn’t see? That would be my next thought if her stool sample comes back negative.

Whatever the rock licking is about, I hope it’s making her feel better in the meantime. 

Hugs to you and your family. I hope this is all resolved by tomorrow.


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## Muggles (Mar 14, 2015)

Poor Peggy! What an ordeal. It’s so stressful not knowing what’s wrong. Rory has a pretty sensitive stomach as well as allergies to a few pretty common proteins and anything overly processed, so we had a lot of incidents like this when he was younger and I was still figuring out what his triggers were. He would also pick all the chicken out of rice and the vet said it’s fine to give plain potato instead, so you could try that with Peggy to mix things up too! 

Hope you get answers soon.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Porkchop said:


> No! I’m so sad for Peggy and you (and your husband). I hate to hear your girl still isn’t fully back to her energetic, silly self.
> 
> I kind of hope there’s something in her poop that shows she has a curable infection that can be treated with medication for a week, if anything. Those yellow mucous poops definitely are irritation of her bowels.
> 
> ...


The timing of the diarrhea—two weeks in a row with four days of being totally fine in between—doesn't seem right for a blockage. But anything's possible, right?Maybe the timing was a total coincidence and these are two unrelated illnesses.

I did notice two very strange looking shapes when I collected the fecal sample: flat, light-coloured ovals. Maybe tapeworms?

She did eat some sort of prey in our backyard a while back.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Muggles said:


> Poor Peggy! What an ordeal. It’s so stressful not knowing what’s wrong. Rory has a pretty sensitive stomach as well as allergies to a few pretty common proteins and anything overly processed, so we had a lot of incidents like this when he was younger and I was still figuring out what his triggers were. He would also pick all the chicken out of rice and the vet said it’s fine to give plain potato instead, so you could try that with Peggy to mix things up too!
> 
> Hope you get answers soon.


Thank you! I couldn't believe she didn't want the rice after devouring it the first day. But I should've known better. These darn picky poodles. 

I'm preparing to phase chicken out of her diet for a while, just to see how she does on other proteins. But now's probably not the best time to be messing around with new food since she's never had diarrhea like this before.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Poor Peggy and poor you. Has the vet suggested Metronidazole? It works very well for Poppy, mostly because of its soothing effect on the small intestine. But there may well be reasons why it is not appropriate for Peggy, of course.

When even rice and chicken was not working I have used the canned sensitive diet - Royal Canin in our case. It was very helpful, so may be another option. A year or two back both dogs had on/off diarrhoea for what felt like the whole summer - nothing like as bad as Peggy, but enough to have me up in the early hours most nights. After the obvious treatments didn't work the vet ran all the available tests, and found nothing. Fortunately both dogs were bright and bouncy and hungry (again unlike Peggy), so we decided on a few more weeks of symptomatic treatment before escalating to the university vet departments - my vet said most bugs are self limiting, and should clear eventually, and at last it did. But the sensitive diet meant I got a lot more sleep through those weeks.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Fingers crossed that Peggy is feeling better today, and that the vet has some answers.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

How is Peggy? I am not going to mention Poppy's morning poo for fear of jinxing things (ooops).


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> How is Peggy? I am not going to mention Poppy's morning poo for fear of jinxing things (ooops).


Good girl, Poppy!

We've had one urgent semi-solid so far this morning....which she then stepped in. She's turned her nose up at all elaborate food offerings and chosen instead to lick the yogurt spoon (but _heaven forbid_ not an actual dab of yogurt on a plate!) and gobble down a fibre chew.

The vet will likely offer up some treatment options once they've finished the fecal test. I just gave them a call and we should have the results later today or tomorrow. 

I had lovely dreams of tapeworms last night, thanks to all my evening research!


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Sounds like you'll have some answers and a way forward soon. Sorry to hear about the ill-fated foot fall, however. Yuck!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Roll on diagnosis - and a treatment plan!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Got the results back: Negative for parasites, though I know some can slip through standard screenings.

Now poor Peggy obviously has a very sore bum.  She's sitting abruptly and sometimes even trying to sprint away from it.

I've actually never seen a dog have diarrhea this long, and it seems to be limited to the first half of the day. So eating and drinking isn't urgently triggering it. (I know when I'm sick, just a sip of water can be enough to send me running.)

She'll be going in tomorrow for a full exam. Can't put it off any longer. I didn't want to make things worse if her condition was stress-induced, but there's no way stress would make her sick for this long.


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## PixieDust (Jun 19, 2020)

Aww, poor Peggy. Her tummy/intestines must be so angry and inflamed right now. Hoping for a speedy resolution at the vet tomorrow so everyone can rest easy and get some good sleep. It's so hard as they can't tell you how they feel. Metronidazole plus probiotics has definitely helped us at various times over the years.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

PixieDust said:


> Aww, poor Peggy. Her tummy/intestines must be so angry and inflamed right now. Hoping for a speedy resolution at the vet tomorrow so everyone can rest easy and get some good sleep. It's so hard as they can't tell you how they feel. Metronidazole plus probiotics has definitely helped us at various times over the years.


Thank you from Peggy and me.  She enthusiastically demanded dinner tonight after enjoying some licks of plain organic applesauce this afternoon. I'm guessing she's rather famished at this point.

And now I guess it's time for soccer?


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

I love that photo with the soccer ball! She has an indomitable spirit! Fingers crossed that everything goes well at the vet today.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

How did you get on at the vet's? And how is Peggy?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Liz said:


> I love that photo with the soccer ball! She has an indomitable spirit! Fingers crossed that everything goes well at the vet today.





fjm said:


> How did you get on at the vet's? And how is Peggy?


Her spirit is truly alive and well!

After last night's ravenous return to a normal, full-sized supper, I was worried about what the morning would bring. But it's now 2:25pm and she's had only a _single_ poo today: Firm and a nice boring brown!!! 

Even if it doesn't last, that's the first non-yellow poop we've seen since last Thursday. A very big deal.

So I made the decision again to hold off on the vet. She's eating, drinking, and playing. Her eyes are bright and (to be honest) she's a little _too_ alert. I know it's too soon to say we're in the clear, but I'm back to thinking two weeks of that unsocialized classmate may have done a real number on her. 

She absolutely lost it this morning, in an uncharacteristically inconsolable fashion, when she saw a calm, thoroughly inoffensive dog walking on our street. Usually she's the one watching the nutso dogs, like, "_What_ is your problem?"


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Glad to hear it! Any decisions about class this week?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Liz said:


> Glad to hear it! Any decisions about class this week?


No class. In fact, I don't think we'll finish the session. 

I'm going to ask our trainer about doing some one-on-one classes in real-life settings.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Even happier to hear that!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Excellent news on the digestion, less so on the learned reaction - I think you are very wise to avoid that class for a while. After a week of improving poos Poppy woke me an hour after we went to bed and has now done two yellow splats... I have dosed her with tummy medicine and will wait an hour before trying to sleep again.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Oh, FJM, I'm so sorry to hear that. Any ideas on the cause?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> Excellent news on the digestion, less so on the learned reaction - I think you are very wise to avoid that class for a while. After a week of improving poos Poppy woke me an hour after we went to bed and has now done two yellow splats... I have dosed her with tummy medicine and will wait an hour before trying to sleep again.


Oh poor Poppy. And you. Hope you and the whole gang are able to get some good sleep soon.

All is still refreshingly boring over here.


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## RM<3Jaanu (Jul 3, 2020)

So sorry to hear about all this @PeggyTheParti, glad things have improved and that Peggy is doing better. Definitely a good call on not going back to class.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think it is a bit of everything - liver disease, a sensitive stomach, hoovering up stuff she shouldn't and perhaps an overgrowth of bacteria in the upper intestine. She used to want to eat grass until she vomited, and was showing signs of that this morning. I had her out several times this evening knowing she needed to poo, but she waited until it was dark and raining and I didn't have my lenses in... Nothing like playing hunt the poo bent double with a very inadequate torch, while rain drips down your neck!

It's been just about an hour with no aftershocks so I think we will try going back to bed. Hope Peggy's tum stays on an even keel, and that she quickly forgets about barking at passing dogs.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Sleep well, FJM


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> It's been just about an hour with no aftershocks so I think we will try going back to bed. Hope Peggy's tum stays on an even keel, and that she quickly forgets about barking at passing dogs.


Hope you're sleeping soundly right now. 

Peggy just did an icky urgent poop, but still normal brown colour. I'm calling it a win.


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## Fenris-wolf (Apr 17, 2018)

I'm happy to hear that Peggy is doing better and that you're going to ask your trainer about real life situation training that's going to fun and awesome😎🎉

FJM I'm sorry to hear about Poppy, and I hope you guys are doing okay today.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

It's a bit of a roller coaster isn't it, anxiously watching for the Perfect Poo! I am a bit zonked this morning - just as I was getting back to sleep at 1.30am the cats arrived and started an argument with Sophy about who got the best bed spot, and I woke up with caffeine withdrawal symptoms at 6.30am. Fortunately no need to go anywhere today, so I can kip this afternoon if necessary. And when I found the Lost First Poo this morning it was formed rather than splat - not Peggy's good colour, but like you I will take it as a partial win!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I was so thrilled by today's Good Poo that I took a photo of it and showed my husband while he was enjoying a midday snack.


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## Fenris-wolf (Apr 17, 2018)

🤣


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I was so thrilled by today's Good Poo that I took a photo of it and showed my husband while he was enjoying a midday snack.


My f-i-l used to describe bowel resections at the dinner table. It all depends on what you're eating...


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## CSC (Dec 17, 2019)

Could be high glycerin content in treats... cheap treats give my Sammy


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## PipersMama (Jun 25, 2020)

Glad to hear Peggy and Poppy are both doing better. I sure hope it continues this way! Poor puppies!


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## Scorteal (Jul 3, 2020)

Sounds like the beginnings of pancreatitis.


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## Mick (Sep 7, 2012)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Grrrrrr. That makes me SO MAD. And sad.
> 
> I wonder how many animals get treated needlessly each year for all sorts of possible ailments, possibly doing even _more_ harm to their poor bodies, when it's actually pesticide exposure.
> 
> Glad Fluffy was okay.


I just saw this post. I feel so bad about Peggy. Hopefully she recovers without any long-term effect. Our first standard poodle, at ~ 2yrs. old, went into the back yard after the yard was sprayed. We waited *few hours longer than the company rep. stated it was safe* to allow our dog to go into the yard. By next day, she developed diarrhea and began omitting. We ran to the vet. Vet asked about eating anything or walking anywhere, then performed some blood work, and put our fur baby on IV fluids. After that she explained that dogs absorb pesticides through their paw pads rapidly. Depending on the chemical, how hot it was, length of the time the dog walked on the sprayed grass, the condition of the dog worsens. We got lucky, we came for help just fast enough, before her systems began shutting down. 
If the cause of Peggy’s diarrhea is a pesticide, the trainer should pay for more than just sample of Peggy’s poop. Trainer should know better than allowing a class to be held on the grass that was sprayed. FYI, after grass/weeds get sprayed with pesticide(s), both grass & weeds turn yellow to brown and look like that patch is dying out. 
I’m not trying to scare you, just sharing our experience.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

CSC said:


> Could be high glycerin content in treats... cheap treats give my Sammy


I mostly steer clear of this ingredient, too. It used to give my mini mix terrible diarrhea. 

Peggy's training treats are mostly low fat human foods, cut up into tiny pieces. She does love one processed treat that contains glycerin, but we only give it to her in moderation. Maybe I'll phase it out entirely.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

PipersMama said:


> Glad to hear Peggy and Poppy are both doing better. I sure hope it continues this way! Poor puppies!


I hope so, too! Hate watching them suffer and feeling so helpless.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Scorteal said:


> Sounds like the beginnings of pancreatitis.


Can I ask why you suspect pancreatitis? She wasn't showing any signs of abdominal pain. No vomiting either.

Was it the yellow diarrhea?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Mick said:


> I just saw this post. I feel so bad about Peggy. Hopefully she recovers without any long-term effect. Our first standard poodle, at ~ 2yrs. old, went into the back yard after the yard was sprayed. We waited *few hours longer than the company rep. stated it was safe* to allow our dog to go into the yard. By next day, she developed diarrhea and began omitting. We ran to the vet. Vet asked about eating anything or walking anywhere, then performed some blood work, and put our fur baby on IV fluids. After that she explained that dogs absorb pesticides through their paw pads rapidly. Depending on the chemical, how hot it was, length of the time the dog walked on the sprayed grass, the condition of the dog worsens. We got lucky, we came for help just fast enough, before her systems began shutting down.
> If the cause of Peggy’s diarrhea is a pesticide, the trainer should pay for more than just sample of Peggy’s poop. Trainer should know better than allowing a class to be held on the grass that was sprayed. FYI, after grass/weeds get sprayed with pesticide(s), both grass & weeds turn yellow to brown and look like that patch is dying out.
> I’m not trying to scare you, just sharing our experience.


I really appreciate you sharing your experience. Thank you.

Our trainer has offered to pay for whatever we need. I don't think she's been able to get any answers about possible spraying, but it totally makes sense that's why the whole stretch of grass was dead. I usually steer clear of overly green, manicured lawns, but this is in an industrial park, and I can imagine them eradicating weeds in the cheapest, fastest way. It was also unusually hot during our last class, which may explain why she got so much sicker than the week before.

I'm hoping we're out of the woods now. Just one normal poop today, normal appetite, and very enthusiastic play. She was literally begging me for a training session, pressing her nose into my thigh and then carefully positioning herself in my line of sight when I tried to ignore her. When she saw the clicker come out, she raced to the door and then snapped into "wait" position. Gotta love that poodle spirit.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

If I see lush grass with no weeds I take my dog far out into the street to bypass the area. I will not even walk on the nearby sidewalks as many spray right across them as they aim for the other side.

People have no clue how they are poisoning their own dogs, and even themselves, by walking on or by these hazardous chemicals. For places to let my dog run I look for fields with the most weeds, the least maintenance..... Or even better, go to the woods and mountains


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## Lisa3104 (May 29, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Hoping someone might help me troubleshoot.
> 
> Peggy has an ironclad stomach. It's her super power. We go to training classes on Thursdays, and last Friday-Sunday she had uncharacteristically horrid gas and diarrhea. She was otherwise okay, so we assumed it was something she ate. By Monday she was totally fine.
> 
> ...


Poor baby,I hope she’s OK. It could be the cleaner, I would definitely bring it up with the trainer and inquire if any other dogs had similar symptoms. It can also be nerves. Martini is only 3 yrs old and I’m her third owner. When I adopted her she was on Hills digestive care prescription food. She had every test under the sun and was perfectly healthy. From the rescue society I was told her first home had Other dogs. The second home she was terrorized by 3 kids under the age of five. She was constantly throwing up and diarrhea. I have her 2 months now and has never thrown up or had any digestive issues and no longer on prescription food. she just gets very nervous around other dogs and unruly children. He came to me already housebroken and new most commands but was inconsistent if ther was distractions, so bringing her to a class was not an option. So I work with her at home. I just put in an invisable fence and after two sessions she was so stressed she didn’t even want to go out. otherwise she is just the sweetest, well behaved rescue I’ve ever had.


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## Lisa3104 (May 29, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> We were actually thinking it might be the water at class, as we fill up her bowl from the sink there. But I think bacteria would cause much longer illness.
> 
> Even though the diarrhea was more urgent this time around, and there was a LOT in a short amount of time, it was over faster. After last class, she actually leaked a bit in the house a few days later. This time around, she already seems back to her old self, 24 hours from onset.
> 
> ...


What beautiful pics, I hope Peggy is feeling better 💕🐾


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

My tpoo had pancreatitis. It’s sometimes the result of eating highly fatty foods. In my tpoo’s case I was ignorant and the internet didn’t exist back then. I had kibble down for my cats to eat and the dog helped herself to treats regularly which were too high in fat and protein.

If you were using highly fatty treats like greasy meatballs then I would consider pancreatitis as a potential diagnosis which your vet could run blood work to confirm (when Peggy is ill). Otherwise it’s more likely something else.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I agree that poodles can be exquisitely sensitive. Our last dog (half minipoo) felt _everything_ in her gut. I can actually relate!

Peggy so far hasn't been like that, but we've also made every effort to keep her world happy and kind. It's possible that a stressed, barking classmate, two weeks in a row, took a toll. Maybe it was a combination of things. I suspect we'll never know.

As for electric fences.... 

Our trainer has said the only way to train them humanely is with flags along the fence line and the actual fence turned off until they've learned. As you're seeing firsthand, this especially applies to sensitive poodles. 

Even then, she encourages extreme caution. I don't want to be a downer, but she's seen dogs ruined by them. And we had someone here tell us about her dog being attacked through one. 

It sounds like you're making really good progress with your girl, so don't let the fence derail you. 



Lisa3104 said:


> Poor baby,I hope she’s OK. It could be the cleaner, I would definitely bring it up with the trainer and inquire if any other dogs had similar symptoms. It can also be nerves. Martini is only 3 yrs old and I’m her third owner. When I adopted her she was on Hills digestive care prescription food. She had every test under the sun and was perfectly healthy. From the rescue society I was told her first home had Other dogs. The second home she was terrorized by 3 kids under the age of five. She was constantly throwing up and diarrhea. I have her 2 months now and has never thrown up or had any digestive issues and no longer on prescription food. she just gets very nervous around other dogs and unruly children. He came to me already housebroken and new most commands but was inconsistent if ther was distractions, so bringing her to a class was not an option. So I work with her at home. I just put in an invisable fence and after two sessions she was so stressed she didn’t even want to go out. otherwise she is just the sweetest, well behaved rescue I’ve ever had.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Lisa3104 said:


> What beautiful pics, I hope Peggy is feeling better 💕🐾


And thank you! She's doing really well today, but I'll feel better once a week has passed and it's not flared up again.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Skylar said:


> My tpoo had pancreatitis. It’s sometimes the result of eating highly fatty foods. In my tpoo’s case I was ignorant and the internet didn’t exist back then. I had kibble down for my cats to eat and the dog helped herself to treats regularly which were too high in fat and protein.
> 
> If you were using highly fatty treats like greasy meatballs then I would consider pancreatitis as a potential diagnosis which your vet could run blood work to confirm (when Peggy is ill). Otherwise it’s more likely something else.


I experienced suspected pancreatitis once, and it was hell on earth. I am feeling the pain again just typing this! If it manifests similarly in dogs, that's definitely not what she had. But the yellow diarrhea does still concern me.

We recently started a new bag of puppy kibble, which I'd stocked up on at the start of quarantine. She doesn't eat a ton of it, but I think I'll switch her over to adult formula over the next couple of weeks to be safe.


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## Porkchop (Sep 2, 2019)

I’m so happy Peggy’s poops and appetite are on the right track! I hope she likes the adult formula kibble when you transition over. 

It sucks that your training class got derailed but of course Peggy’s health and mental state needs to be preserved. Your trainer sound so awesome. Eventually I’ll be getting Lacey back to training classes at a new location and I hope to find one half as good as yours!


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## Teddy’s mom (May 20, 2020)

Is she any better? Figure out what it was exactly?


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## Porkchop (Sep 2, 2019)

Just wanted to check in and see how Peggy is doing? I hope the zoomies pics you posted are a good indication that she’s feeling good.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Porkchop said:


> Just wanted to check in and see how Peggy is doing? I hope the zoomies pics you posted are a good indication that she’s feeling good.


I was literally just typing when your comment appeared! Thank you so much for checking in.

Four perfect days and suddenly it's back.  She's been totally normal—eating normal, pooping normal, playing normal—then she nudged me just now to go out and it went from a normal well-formed (big!) poop to a whoosh of liquid.


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## Fenris-wolf (Apr 17, 2018)

I'm so sorry to hear this 😔


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Fenris-wolf said:


> I'm so sorry to hear this 😔


I'm so upset


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

Oh, no.  Has she seen any other dogs, other than the one on your street? Or maybe she ate too much?


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## Fenris-wolf (Apr 17, 2018)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I'm so upset


(💗Hugs and good vibes coming to Peggy, you, and your husband💗) How is she doing other wise? Is she drinking like she should? Maybe she needs some doggy electrolyte solution. How have the other dogs in class been doing? Keep us posted.


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## Fenris-wolf (Apr 17, 2018)

We're here for you guys!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

FloofyPoodle said:


> Oh, no.  Has she seen any other dogs, other than the one on your street? Or maybe she ate too much?





Fenris-wolf said:


> (💗Hugs and good vibes coming to Peggy, you, and your husband💗) How is she doing other wise? Is she drinking like she should? Maybe she needs some doggy electrolyte solution. How have the other dogs in class been doing? Keep us posted.





Fenris-wolf said:


> We're here for you guys!


Thank you. What would I do without Poodle Forum??

She's doing totally fine otherwise. Definitely still on edge—barking at any dogs that pass by the house, growling at noises, that sort of thing—but she's an adolescent, so I'm not especially surprised. And she stops quickly as long as I acknowledge the scary thing and thank her for alerting me.

She's eating and drinking normally. Training is going great. She's sleeping fine.

She's not played with any dogs or even been _close_ to any dogs since her last class on the 16th.

I've not received any updates on her classmates that got sick. Our trainer did check in yesterday, though, to see how Peggy was doing. I assume she'd let me know if there was anything noteworthy.

With this flaring up *again* after exactly 4 days of perfect health (just like last time), it's seeming less likely to me that it's class related.


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## Fenris-wolf (Apr 17, 2018)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Thank you. What would I do without Poodle Forum??
> 
> She's doing totally fine otherwise. Definitely still on edge—barking at any dogs that pass by the house, growling at noises, that sort of thing—but she's an adolescent, so I'm not especially surprised. And she stops quickly as long as I acknowledge the scary thing and thank her for alerting me.
> 
> ...


I wonder the same myself sometimes.

Okay👍

Okay, that's great😎👍🎉!!

Okay👍

Okay. Yeah, I would think so too.

I'm thinking that this is doesn't have anything to do with class too. Has she still been licking Peggy Rock? Had she been licking Peggy Rock for those 4 days.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Lol. I think the rock has been retired. She seems to have replaced licking with barking at everything that moves.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

It sounds as if it could be a bug. I had bacterial dysentry once - every Wednesday and Thursday for several weeks... I read the whole of War and Peace while stuck in the bathroom!

There again Poppy has recently had similar symptoms, and her vet thinks her problem may be SIBO (Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth), caused by migration of bacteria from the large intestine, where they are helpful, to the small intestine, where they are not - all part of her liver disease in her case, but can happen for lots of other reasons. I am being a bit wary of probiotics for fear of making things worse.


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## Porkchop (Sep 2, 2019)

NOOOOOOO! 😭

I’m glad she’s not completely down and out and but that’s so nerve wracking not knowing whats wrong. I think you mentioned you were working at home so you don’t have to leave her, right? If so, I’m happy she’s not stuck in her crate alone when the urge to diarrhea hits her like that.

Back in June Lacey had diarrhea every day for over 2.5 weeks (and not a fully solid poop until she hit 3 weeks after it started). She was much more jumpy, extra barky, and totally freaked out whenever I took her outside to use the bathroom. This was before fireworks started happening. She’s usually an alert barker in our yard, but this was even more than usual. Peggy’s barking might be adolescent alerty girl, but it also might be one of her sign’s she’s not feeling so good.

I dropped off a stool sample and they gave me two test options. One was a $50 test they do in house but was more basic (and can sometimes miss positive results like you mentioned in a past post). That is the one where the results are float, direct, cytology, and appearance. Then a $100 test where they send the sample out to a lab for a more in depth and precise test. It also tested for additional sicknesses like c diff and some other things I can’t remember. Is the more in depth test an option for you? Maybe something got missed and she just needs a round of medication to clear it. I hope it’s something simple. 
(If you were wondering about what was going on with Lacey, I just did the regular fecal test and it came back negative. But I strongly felt it was related to a recent kibble transition so I didn’t pursue the more in depth fecal test.)

Give Peggy a good ear scratch from me and a kiss on her sweet poodle cheek.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> It sounds as if it could be a bug. I had bacterial dysentry once - every Wednesday and Thursday for several weeks... I read the whole of War and Peace while stuck in the bathroom!


Thanks for the laughter as always. 

I've been reading about giardia, as it seems like it can cause these cyclical bouts of diarrhea, and she is a shameless drinker of standing water. She always manages to find some at our weekly playdates and will then lead the others dogs to it. 



Porkchop said:


> Is the more in depth test an option for you?


I'm going to have to call and check. They assured me the test would identify giardia, but it was only $25 (which shocked me) and everything I've read said giardia typically requires repeat testing.


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## Sallygoodin (May 4, 2020)

I haven't read through all the 7 pages, so perhaps this was done, but has she been tested for Coccidia? It is hard to detect and they have to do some kind of flotatation test whatever that means but it is Highly contagious is what I read. I think Coccidia can eat away at the intestines. Not to scare you but I would ask them to do that. It is missed in just fecal exams or can be. I am not a Vet and maybe you have looked into it. It is a protozoa ....not a worm or Giardia. Poor Peggy give her a love.......🧡


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Sallygoodin said:


> I haven't read through all the 7 pages, so perhaps this was done, but has she been tested for Coccidia? It is hard to detect and they have to do some kind of flotatation test whatever that means but it is Highly contagious is what I read. I think Coccidia can eat away at the intestines. Not to scare you but I would ask them to do that. It is missed in just fecal exams or can be. I am not a Vet and maybe you have looked into it. It is a protozoa ....not a worm or Giardia. Poor Peggy give her a love.......🧡


That's funny you mentioned coccidia as my mother just called me last night to ask if it was a possibility. Her schnauzer had it years ago (from eating goose poop), but was much sicker than Peggy, who currently seems to be fine.

Each bout of diarrhea (of varying durations) has been four days apart, and tomorrow marks four days since her last one. So fingers crossed, yet again!


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## Mick (Sep 7, 2012)

PeggyTheParti said:


> That's funny you mentioned coccidia as my mother just called me last night to ask if it was a possibility. Her schnauzer had it years ago (from eating goose poop), but was much sicker than Peggy, who currently seems to be fine.
> 
> Each bout of diarrhea (of varying durations) has been four days apart, and tomorrow marks four days since her last one. So fingers crossed, yet again!
> 
> How is Peggy doing after the 4 days?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Mick said:


> How is Peggy doing after the 4 days?


Scared to jinx it, but so far so good!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Fingers crossed! Poppy is much better after three days on metronidazole, so fingers crossed here too. I think hers is now chronic, as a result of the liver disease, but at least I now know what to do to control it.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I understand the trial and error involved just to get to that point. I'm so very happy for you and Poppy. 

Only 7 hours until bedtime over here and still no diarrhea....


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

And another good 'un here this morning.

(Can't believe I am actually having a transAtlantic conversation about the consistency of poo, and getting excited by it!)


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> And another good 'un here this morning.
> 
> (Can't believe I am actually having a transAtlantic conversation about the consistency of poo, and getting excited by it!)


Lol. I love it! Very grateful for your long-distance support. And good job this morning, Poppy! 

Peggy's sleeping soundly now. Her last poop of the day got my hopes up: It was almost perfectly formed, and then the last bit was soft and covered in mucous. Not bad, relatively speaking; the last time she had icky poop, it started normal and then ended with pure terrible liquid. 

But technically the mysterious 4-day cycle continues.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Sounds like a job for Metronidazole to me - you may be of an age to need to use gloves when giving it. I was rather touched when a very young vet insisted on giving me several pairs of surgical gloves along with the prescription - at my age with the menopause many years behind me, I think the possibility of my getting pregnant is so remote that handling a possibly teratogenic tablet is the least of my worries!


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Wow, hope you find the solution. I monitor my Spoos poo. He is on a raw diet ( except now during COVID he is getting high grade kibble about every 3 meals). Whenever it is not really firm I give him a bone in chicken leg quarter for a couple of meals and it gets him right on track again.


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## Teddy’s mom (May 20, 2020)

Curious as to how she’s doing?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Teddy’s mom said:


> Curious as to how she’s doing?


She seems totally fine.

Her last two icky poops—although still on that weird 4-day schedule—have been isolated incidents. And the most recent one wouldn't have even warranted concern under normal circumstances.

I suspect her immune system is doing its job, so I'll avoid antibiotics as long as she continues to improve. I've had her on probiotics for the past week or so, just to support her gut health.


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## bluegirl1997 (Aug 10, 2019)

Yeah those probiotics are pretty good hey? My dogs are doing so well on them I went and got some human kind for myself


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I’m struggling with something similar. Babykins has ulcerative colitis. Once I figured out she couldn‘t tolerate legumes, fish and excess fat and kept her on a very strict diet, she's been good. I haven't had to treat her with medication in 2 years.

We have had a really hot summer and I know my dog gets really hot outside, I can feel the heat on her when I touch her back. I had to give her a 10 day dose of Metronidazole and that normally kicks in within a day or two and once treatment ends she's completely normal. This time it never quite got her BM nice and solid and after a few days the squirts and vomiting returned. We're on our second 10 day dose of Metronidazole and I hope this sets her back to normal. The vet is thinking it's the heat that's stressing her.

We're limited her time outside when it's very hot and I hope that solves our problem.

Do you think this could be Peggy's problem?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

bluegirl1997 said:


> Yeah those probiotics are pretty good hey? My dogs are doing so well on them I went and got some human kind for myself
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It took me a while to find a kind I could tolerate. The really good ones (expensive, refrigeration required) caused me to bloat so badly, I gave up after three weeks.

Now I take Align, which noticeably improves my digestion without any of the side effects. I didn't actually believe it would work, but I was desperate.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Skylar said:


> I’m struggling with something similar. Babykins has ulcerative colitis. Once I figured out she couldn‘t tolerate legumes, fish and excess fat and kept her on a very strict diet, she's been good. I haven't had to treat her with medication in 2 years.
> 
> We have had a really hot summer and I know my dog gets really hot outside, I can feel the heat on her when I touch her back. I had to give her a 10 day dose of Metronidazole and that normally kicks in within a day or two and once treatment ends she's completely normal. This time it never quite got her BM nice and solid and after a few days the squirts and vomiting returned. We're on our second 10 day dose of Metronidazole and I hope this sets her back to normal. The vet is thinking it's the heat that's stressing her.
> 
> ...


Aw. Poor Babykins.  We're lucky to live in a mild climate. A typical heat wave here is mid 70s with low humidity, and it's rare she's out in direct sun for very long. 

She's nearing the end of her kibble supply, so I'm exploring options for how to proceed diet-wise. But I don't want to make any quick, dramatic changes that could set us back. She actually did better once I took her off the bland chicken & rice I use for acute illness and put her back on her regular food.

What process did you use to determine Babykins' intolerances?


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I looked at most of the food and treats that I had fed her and tried to see what was common. I wrote a list out the ingredients. I didn’t worry about the “vitamins” added, just the other chemicals and identified foods.

Every time I gave her fish, she would get sick.... these were treats that were fish alone, nothing else - identifying fish as a problem was easy.

Legumes were in all the food and most treats (often lentils, peas or chickpea). I did some research and discovered legumes was high on the list of causing allergies/intolerances. By then I had switched her to chicken and rice. I used to give her some veggies as I was cutting them to prepare dinner (carrots, zucchini, lettuce) and one day I gave her some green beans. She was sick.... I googled and discovered green beans are legumes.

By this time the vet switched us to a prescription kibble, (Hills z/d) which hydrolyzed the protein (broke it up into single amino acids so nothing should provoke a response). It had hydrolyzed Legumes. She improved but not perfect. I decided to home cook so I could completely avoid legumes and got rewarded with no digestive issues. My thinking is the hydrolyzation process may not always be 100% complete especially since I bought a bag that the kibble was burnt and another the kibble wasn’t properly formed. Seemed a little sloppy. 

I notice glycerin led to looser stools, but not mucous blood or vomiting and no middle of the night crisis. I avoi glycerin but I don’t put it in the same category of fish and legumes.

I was disgusted by the burnt kibble and decided to stick with home cooking And immediately her BMs were excellent. No more waking up in the middle of the night, no mucous, blood, vomiting bile etc. 

My daughter feeds her dog Freshpet and it has peas in it. When we visited Babykins stole a few out of the bowl and got sick. More recently Freshpet has a very similar product, same ingredients but no peas, no other legumes. I use it daily as training treats and she is fine on that. That’s important feedback that she cannot tolerate legumes. 

I have tried to find other dog food that didn’t have legumes and I gave up after reading so many ingredient lists. 

I was stymied recently when her stool got soft and she had some mucus then vomiting, gas and stomach discomfort where she wants to lie quietly and not play and having diarrhea in the middle of the night. She was on metronidazole for 10 days. Normally she improves in a day or two and remains normal. This time she kept having loose stool and wasn’t back to normal. With in a week she was sick again and is back on another 10 day treatment. Her stool sample was normal, she doesn’t eat poop, lick things or drink water other than what I supply. 

I do think it’s important to look at diet, it may not be the answer but there’s a good chance that it is. I hope you find the answer so Peggy is feeling better. 

In our case we’re keeping cool getting exercise in the house when it’s so hot And I’m hopeful we’ll get our problem under control.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Skylar said:


> I looked at most of the food and treats that I had fed her and tried to see what was common. I wrote a list out the ingredients. ...
> 
> Legumes were in all the food and most treats (often lentils, peas or chickpea). I did some research and discovered legumes was high on the list of causing allergies/intolerances. By then I had switched her to chicken and rice. I used to give her some veggies as I was cutting them to prepare dinner (carrots, zucchini, lettuce) and one day I gave her some green beans. She was sick.... I googled and discovered green beans are legumes...
> 
> ...


I too have had huge problems with legumes and pea protein, both for my spoo in dog food and for me! Lots of the human protein supplements have had pea protein in then and I have terrible indigestion and bloating. It is so frustrating to find even the most expensive kibbles have legumes in them.

The best luck I have had for him is raw, not even home cooked.
Very frustrating.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Skylar said:


> I looked at most of the food and treats that I had fed her and tried to see what was common. I wrote a list out the ingredients. I didn’t worry about the “vitamins” added, just the other chemicals and identified foods.
> 
> Every time I gave her fish, she would get sick.... these were treats that were fish alone, nothing else - identifying fish as a problem was easy.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for sharing that journey. It's such a tedious one, and often just plain overwhelming. I think that written list of ingredients was a very good idea.

Really hoping this round of meds does the trick for Babykins. I've got Peggy on Purina FortiFlora right now, which is the brand of probiotics our vet sells (though I got ours from Chewy). I'm not sure Babykins could tolerate it, though, as it does have more ingredients than probiotics should.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

kontiki said:


> I too have had huge problems with legumes and pea protein, both for my spoo in dog food and for me! Lots of the human protein supplements have had pea protein in then and I have terrible indigestion and bloating. It is so frustrating to find even the most expensive kibbles have legumes in them.
> 
> The best luck I have had for him is raw, not even home cooked.
> Very frustrating.


It's out of control! They're in EVERYTHING. 

And the human equivalent for me is onion or onion powder or "spices." Ack. Just brutal on my stomach, and the effects are cumulative. So the tiniest dose can push me over the edge.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I am another who cannot tolerate alliums - one of the reasons I cook mostly from scratch, as ready meals without onion, garlic, leeks etc are few and far between. It is a surprisingly common intolerance - up to 20% of the population by some estimates - yet restaurants and food manufacturers seem completely unaware of it.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> I am another who cannot tolerate alliums - one of the reasons I cook mostly from scratch, as ready meals without onion, garlic, leeks etc are few and far between. It is a surprisingly common intolerance - up to 20% of the population by some estimates - yet restaurants and food manufacturers seem completely unaware of it.


Would you believe it took me over 30 years to figure it out?! And _not_ for lack of trying.

It was doing a low-FODMAP diet during a cross-country roadtrip that finally clued me in. What a life changer.

I can handle garlic in small quantities, but I never know when I might be pushing it too far....until I push it too far.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

And Gluten and wheat! Yikes, you do not have to be celiac to have major reactions including diarrhea 8 times a day and arthritic joint pain! You could not pay me a thousand dollars to eat anything with it in it. I will not even allow anyone to bring it into my house. Not worth it! I have now been gluten free for 11 years and no longer have diarrhea, nor arthritic pain, nor anxiety !

I simply do not understand why Medical Doctors for humans, and Vets for our dear animals do not get it.
If I feed my spoo food or treats with wheat in it I am lucky if he makes it outside before an accident. I am shocked at the 'recipes' for dog food treats that have wheat in them.

Another thing is the artificial chemical vitamins and medications that are supposed to be the same as what nature makes. The word 'natural' is sadly ... bad. OK - off of my high horse.


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## Mick (Sep 7, 2012)

fjm said:


> Sounds like a job for Metronidazole to me - you may be of an age to need to use gloves when giving it. I was rather touched when a very young vet insisted on giving me several pairs of surgical gloves along with the prescription - at my age with the menopause many years behind me, I think the possibility of my getting pregnant is so remote that handling a possibly teratogenic tablet is the least of my worries!


So glad to hear that Poppy’s poos are under control.


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## Mick (Sep 7, 2012)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Thank you so much for sharing that journey. It's such a tedious one, and often just plain overwhelming. I think that written list of ingredients was a very good idea.
> 
> Really hoping this round of meds does the trick for Babykins. I've got Peggy on Purina FortiFlora right now, which is the brand of probiotics our vet sells (though I got ours from Chewy). I'm not sure Babykins could tolerate it, though, as it does have more ingredients than probiotics should.


About probiotics, the fact that Purina FortiFlora is sold by vets is being mentioned online. Purina’s probiotic is one of the most expensive, but not the best. 
I kept reading about commercial probiotics till I felt cross-eyed. Eventually, we decided to give Sasha, st.poodle, a late afternoon snack of 2 tbsps., lactose free kefir, and she seems doing fine on it. We use Green Valley Creamery, which adds Lactase enzyme to the 2% , low-fat milk, kefir. They also add the probiotics to make kefir after milk had been pasteurized, because probiotics don’t withstand the heat of pasteurization. But, just like different people do or don’t tolerate probiotics, so are dogs.

About Peggy’s, what sounds like cyclic diarrhea, the it sounds more and more like possible case of parasitic infection. Giardia, is known to cause the cyclic, watery diarrhea, but without blood or mucus. The reason for the diarrhea being cyclic is because Giardia is shed intermittently. The same reason is making it difficult to detect Giardia on the basic feces flotation test, which may need to be repeated or stool sample can be sent out to the special lab., which has specialized testing. FJM is pretty much on the dot, by saying that it might be time for Metronidazole. Giardia is treated by Metronidazole or fenbendazole. BTW, while Peggy still has episodes of diarrhea, switching her to another kind of food might not be to her benefit. Should she react to new food, it’ll be difficult to differentiate the cause of reaction. 
I hope Peggy either recovers on her own or will get help from your vet.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Thanks so much for your insights, Mick. I find some fermented foods and high-quality probiotics extremely hard to tolerate, just personally speaking. So I decided to go the FortiFlora route for a little while. Can't really explain why. A "gut" feeling perhaps?  I do typically avoid most products that come from vet's offices, and kefir's on the list of foods I'd like to eventually incorporate into Peggy's diet. I think Peggy will love it.

In other news...
Today marks the first time since this all began that she has completed a 4-day "cycle" without any icky poops. Hooray!

In total, that was four episodes, each four days apart: One extremely minor, but lasting three days; one severe that lasted a full week; then a single whoosh of watery poop at the end of an otherwise normal bowel movement; and one poop with a slimy finish, but not anything that would have been especially noteworthy out of context.

And then a few days later.....she went into heat. Phew! What a month.

I'll be requesting regular giardia screenings from our vet moving forward, and will absolutely treat Peggy if she tests positive. It sounds nearly impossible to eliminate from the environment, though (to avoid reinfection). Will have to do a Poodle Forum search to see how folks have managed this.


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## Mick (Sep 7, 2012)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Thanks so much for your insights, Mick. I find some fermented foods and high-quality probiotics extremely hard to tolerate, just personally speaking. So I decided to go the FortiFlora route for a little while. Can't really explain why. A "gut" feeling perhaps?  I do typically avoid most products that come from vet's offices, and kefir's on the list of foods I'd like to eventually incorporate into Peggy's diet. I think Peggy will love it.
> 
> In other news...
> Today marks the first time since this all began that she has completed a 4-day "cycle" without any icky poops. Hooray!
> ...


You are Peggy’s mom and your “ gut” feeling is probably the best sensor.
Very glad to hear that Peggy made the first four days without diarrhea. Great news!
Maybe it’s a beginning of feeling better. Though being in heat is probably a big hoop to get through. Hang on, this too shall pass.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Today marks the first time since this all began that she has completed a 4-day "cycle" without any icky poops. Hooray!


Do you know for sure what 'çured' it?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

kontiki said:


> Do you know for sure what 'çured' it?


Nope! No idea. For all I know, we're not out of the woods yet.

The only change I've made was adding the probiotic. She's also not been back to class or any play dates, which is a shame. But now she's in heat, so she'd be on forced hiatus anyway.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

If it turns out to be the probiotic, I would really like to know the brand, etc


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

kontiki said:


> If it turns out to be the probiotic, I would really like to know the brand, etc


It's basically the McDonald's of canine probiotics: Purina FortiFlora.

But I'm on what you might call the McDonald's of human probiotics (Align) and I've had more success with it than the higher quality brands I've tried. 

I've also given Peggy Thorne probiotics, but they recently sold their pet division so I can't vouch for the current formula.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Yikes! I can't eat McDonalds, and I never feed Purina. (Haha..... I am gluten free, only eat organic, and feed my dog raw!) However, I can overlook the analogy and know if it is working for your dog, it probably really works 
Have you continued with it? Let us know if there is no more problem, and if there was no other change


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

kontiki said:


> Yikes! I can't eat McDonalds, and I never feed Purina. (Haha..... I am gluten free, only eat organic, and feed my dog raw!) However, I can overlook the analogy and know if it is working for your dog, it probably really works
> Have you continued with it? Let us know if there is no more problem, and if there was no other change


She's nearing the end of her first month's supply, and I'll likely taper off over the next month or two. Will update here. I don't like making any abrupt dietary changes if easily avoidable.

With Align, it typically works really well for a few months and then I need to take a break. I thought I was possibly imagining this, but my excellent doctor of integrative medicine said she's heard the same thing about other types of probiotics.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

So we've not yet resumed classes, but we did resume our weekly playdate at our trainer's property (which is different from where classes are held). Yesterday was our first day back and today Peggy has vomited three times.

Like the two classes that preceded her diarrhea, there was a dog there that wouldn't stop barking and Peggy was visibly stressed. It was so sharp and loud and persistent; we all took turns shushing him, but within minutes he'd start up again. 

The other two dogs couldn't have cared less, but Peggy would walk away and avoid him as best she could, occasionally even air snapping to get him to back off. And her ears were pinned back much of the time like they were in those barky classes.

She's not usually noise sensitive, but the stomach upset just seems like too much of a coincidence.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

It does seem to echo the pattern of a few weeks ago. I assume you weren't anywhere that could have been treated with chemicals this time? The play date alone may have been exciting enough after so many weeks of enforced social distancing, of course, even without the added stressor of a yappy dog. Would it be possible to set up a one-to-one playdate with a dog she knows and likes at the same venue, and see how she is after that?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> It does seem to echo the pattern of a few weeks ago. I assume you weren't anywhere that could have been treated with chemicals this time? The play date alone may have been exciting enough after so many weeks of enforced social distancing, of course, even without the added stressor of a yappy dog. Would it be possible to set up a one-to-one playdate with a dog she knows and likes at the same venue, and see how she is after that?


I think next week it'll just be her and a dog she's known since puppyhood, so that will eliminate the stress variable. The property is fenced and chemical-free.

When we first brought her home from the breeder, she vomited the first few days. I assumed it was the food she was on, but maybe she does have a more emotionally sensitive stomach than I thought. Would be very poodle of her!


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## Mick (Sep 7, 2012)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I think next week it'll just be her and a dog she's known since puppyhood, so that will eliminate the stress variable. The property is fenced and chemical-free.
> 
> When we first brought her home from the breeder, she vomited the first few days. I assumed it was the food she was on, but maybe she does have a more emotionally sensitive stomach than I thought. Would be very poodle of her!


I may have mentioned this supplement before, VetriScience Composure Pro chews. This supplement’s “Pro” Line is sold at veterinarians only. This product was formulated for support of dog’s cognitive behavior in the stress circumstances. Here is the link to the information








Composure Pro


Clinical strength calming support chews for cats and dogs.




www.vetriscience.com




I tried to recommend it during Peggy’s heat stress behavior, but my post seems to have disappeared...
If you are interested, check with your vet. After I could no longer purchase the “Pro“ line on Amazon, I contacted the manufacturer, informing them that our vet’s prices were prohibitive. VetriScience replied to me and informed that the cost should be around $37.00.
We checked with our vet’s office and it turned out that they lowered the price. If you would rather buy it on Amazon, this product should be in stock by 9/8/20, but Amazon’s price became >$50.
This supplement does help our st. poodle, who has severe separation anxiety problem. I don’t like to give her medications, but this supplement can be given either regularly or ~ 30min. prior to dog going into the potentially stressful situation. 
Maybe this will help Peggy and be your “ just in case” supplement.
Hope Peggy’s next play date will be less stressful.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Mick said:


> I may have mentioned this supplement before, VetriScience Composure Pro chews. This supplement’s “Pro” Line is sold at veterinarians only. This product was formulated for support of dog’s cognitive behavior in the stress circumstances. Here is the link to the information
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you!! I'm going to look into it.

We definitely could have used a little extra support during those first few days of her heat. What a nightmare that was. And we've been so careful when exposing her to other dogs, keeping it as positive as we possibly can, that maybe she's not developed a thick enough social skin.

At least her tummy is settled again, and no diarrhea, thank goodness.


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## Mick (Sep 7, 2012)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Thank you!! I'm going to look into it.
> 
> We definitely could have used a little extra support during those first few days of her heat. What a nightmare that was. And we've been so careful when exposing her to other dogs, keeping it as positive as we possibly can, that maybe she's not developed a thick enough social skin.
> 
> At least her tummy is settled again, and no diarrhea, thank goodness.


So, glad to hear her poo is ok. 
Hang on, her stress level might be up and down ( like before & after the heat) and it’ll level off as well. Hormones do their job on her. Being a real poodle, she senses and responds to perceived stressors in her own way. Are you and everyone in the family ok? I’m not being nosy. Our Sasha reacts to everything: from silence to raised eyebrow. And deals with perceived stressors by getting depressed, having GI issues or skin problems. She is like a dog stressonomer; nothing can be hidden from her. 
Maybe you have your own 😊


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Mick said:


> So, glad to hear her poo is ok.
> Hang on, her stress level might be up and down ( like before & after the heat) and it’ll level off as well. Hormones do their job on her. Being a real poodle, she senses and responds to perceived stressors in her own way. Are you and everyone in the family ok? I’m not being nosy. Our Sasha reacts to everything: from silence to raised eyebrow. And deals with perceived stressors by getting depressed, having GI issues or skin problems. She is like a dog stressonomer; nothing can be hidden from her.
> Maybe you have your own 😊


Oh gosh, you're describing my last dog, Gracie! If I got sick, she got sick. I remember heading to the emergency room once, having to maneuver around her piles of vomit on the floor to get out the door. That was like a telepathic bond. It was intense for both of us!

Peggy is more of a defuser. She's very good at making us laugh. While Gracie would crawl into my lap and comfort me if, for example, my husband and I were bickering about something, Peggy will just slap me in the face with a paw or ask us to go outside and play.

And no, nothing's especially wrong here at the moment, but she's definitely experienced a big disruption to her routine. Covid shut everything down for months, and we were just getting back to classes when she got sick. And then she was _finally_ getting better when—argh!—she went into heat. So she's definitely been more bored and isolated than I'd like. I mean, we've not had a single guest in our home since New Year's! Just a brutal situation for an adolescent dog.

By the time she experiences something like a big family picnic, she'll be well into true adulthood.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Purina's probiotic, and other probiotics in dog food are over processed which kills most of the active probiotic bacteria.
I am now giving my dog organic grass fed Kefir - plain, not flavored. He loves it.


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## Mick (Sep 7, 2012)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Oh gosh, you're describing my last dog, Gracie! If I got sick, she got sick. I remember heading to the emergency room once, having to maneuver around her piles of vomit on the floor to get out the door. That was like a telepathic bond. It was intense for both of us!
> 
> Peggy is more of a defuser. She's very good at making us laugh. While Gracie would crawl into my lap and comfort me if, for example, my husband and I were bickering about something, Peggy will just slap me in the face with a paw or ask us to go outside and play.
> 
> ...


Our first standard, Micki, we got as a puppy, from breeder, at 10 weeks. She knew me as “ mommy” and I was her primary care taker. Husband and son were afraid to break her ( she was the runt of the litter of 7, and fit into my small palm), so they began playing with her and walking her when she got a bit bigger. I fed her, groomed, took to the vet, trained her. And she kept both men “ in line”. Any playful pushing or shoving, she’d bark and pull them apart.
We had two large trees along the length of the yard. My husband connected the trees by a metal cable, running parallel along the length of the yard, thread a small metal ring, and hooked one end of her long leash (Its length was a bit longer than the whole width of the yard), the other end of leash got hooked to the dog’s collar. As the dog moved, the leash would move with her directed along the cable by the ring. because iAny time she wanted to be outside, we’d hook her up to the leash and she was free to roam around, without leash pulling on her or tangling her legs. She could run the whole perimeter of our yard. It was great, especially in the winter. She loved rolling in the snow.
We moved south for the jobs and she lost her big yard with the runner, she had to get used to having practically, no snow, and get used to the new house. But the worst was when I changed jobs and had to travel extensively. In the beginning, she would stop eating and stayed by the window, waiting for me to return. She refused to play or “ talk to anyone”. It took her a while to get used to my absences and to get closer to my husband and son.
Then I hurt my back and first could no longer travel, then got on disability and for a while, worked from home office. 
She became even closer to me. She knew that I’m getting a spasm, before I could feel it. She’d put her head on my knee or stick her head under my hand. Once, she saw me losing consciousness. After that time, she wouldn’t allow me to go to the rest room alone. She became my shadow. And around that same time, she began having occasional seizures, when her rear end and hind legs would shake and she couldn’t move. Any time she sensed the seizure could Ming on, she’d run to me, hide in my lap from the light, and stay with me until the end of seizure. 
As time went by, I got worse, she got more protective. I spent lots of time home and she was with me, wherever I was. She became my girlfriend, my link to the world outside. She adjusted her walk to allow for my limping and inability to walk far or fast. Her legs began hurting, but she tried to hide it and jumped and ran as usual. Then one Thanksgiving, we had family over, but she was unusually subdued and tried to keep to herself. After the guests left, I noticed a tiny growth on one of her toes. It looked red and exuded very unpleasant odor. 
We immediately took her to the vet. Upon exam, vet aspirated the growth and sent it to the special pathology lab. Mran while, vet told me that she doesn’t like the look and odor of the growth and insisted on removing it. That was before Christmas. Results of pathology came back - melanoma. We were referred to vet. oncologist.
He ordered PET scan, found no metastasis, said that Micki was in good shape, but immediately scheduled the surgical removal of one toe. We dropped her off her n 12/31 and picked her up early next morning. I’m a medic and knew what melanoma meant...
Upon release, we were offered to participate in clinical research study, for Micky to have melanoma vaccinations. I read the information about the vaccine, it’s side effects, and asked only 1 question - by how long this vaccine will prolong Micki’s life. I was told - possibly by 6 mos. The pain and discomfort from research treatment were too severe and living 6 more months , with such suffering, wasn’t worth it. I got all the post-op medications, strong painkiller, and supplies for changing the bandages. We turned our living room into small surgery. I changed Micki’s diet to home made rice/vegetables and salmon. We found her special booties for the rainy or cold weather, and I took care of her post-op recovery, compounded by yeast infection on all of her feet. I drove her every 3 months, alternating between oncologist ( where she was checked internally for progress of tumor) and our vet.
No one, who didn’t know that Micki had cancer and underwent surgery, could even guess, from her demeanor, that she was very ill. With my bandaging, creating her affected paw, enough padding, she was able to walk in her booties outside. Our whole neighborhood loved her and all, even children, patted her gently during our short walks. She lived 18 more months, during which, we both were laid off. 
Then on a beautiful, sunny May morning, we went for a short walk, during which she had a long seizure. Once the seizure was over, Micki pulled on her leash to go home. My husband carried her back. She began to have cluster seizures at home and I understood what it meant. 
Ironically, the previous week, she had “clean bill of health” by oncologist - no metastasis in lungs or other organs On x-ray. 
Unfortunately, her head wasn’t x-rayed. ER doctor offered to keep Micki on phenobarbital, to prevent seizures, but it meant that she would be sleeping pretty much 24/7 and wouldn’t have quality of life. I had to let go off my closest and the only girlfriend...
She fell asleep while I sung her lullaby, that she knew since her first months of living fe with us.
I apologize for teary story...
I wanted to share how perceptive st. poodles are, but instead... I told Micki’s story.
I couldn’t stop crying for 6 months. Finally, I began looking for puppy, but being both unemployed, we couldn’t afford puppy from breeders. I contacted all the poodle rescues and shelters. Finally, I saw an ad on Greg’s list for re-homing st. Poodle. And that’s how, we adopted 11months, abused physically and emotionally, Sasha. My heart went out to her. But to put her into our SUV, my husband gently lifted her up, and during the trip home, we made a stop to feed her and he lowered her down from SUV, then lifted her up back in. She knew his hands first and became his dog. I took care of her, just like I cared of Micki. But I became disabled and can’t walk her, play or train her. As a result, she completely turned away from me...
She only stays with me downstairs, during the night, because she used to sleep in my bedroom upstairs. I understand her, my husband walks with her, feeds her, and takes her to groom and to the vet. I’m home bound and barely get up. She got glued to her “ daddy”. Strangely though, she still insists on coming with me to the restroom. I wonder why?


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## Mick (Sep 7, 2012)

kontiki said:


> Purina's probiotic, and other probiotics in dog food are over processed which kills most of the active probiotic bacteria.
> I am now giving my dog organic grass fed Kefir - plain, not flavored. He loves it.


We give Sasha the same- low fat, kefir as a snack. She loves it.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Oh dear one, thank you for sharing Micki's story, and a little of yours, too. I can relate to so much of it. Wish I could give you a big, gentle hug.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I am in tears for you, Mick. Such a wonderful friendship.

Poppy definitely suffered from stress diarrhoea. It was one of the things that made recognising serious illness so difficult - after years and years of middle of the night upset tummy, completely better within 48 hours, at first the liver symptoms seemed like just another bout of the same old same old.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

What a sweet girl, Mick, and a very special bond.


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## Mick (Sep 7, 2012)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Oh dear one, thank you for sharing Micki's story, and a little of yours, too. I can relate to so much of it. Wish I could give you a big, gentle hug.





PeggyTheParti said:


> Oh dear one, thank you for sharing Micki's story, and a little of yours, too. I can relate to so much of it. Wish I could give you a big, gentle hug.


Thank you for your empathy.
As I said, it wasn’t my intention to make anyone to feel sorry for me. I meant to share the examples of poodles’ uncanny sense and ability to take our problems onto themselves. Instead, Micki’s story just poured out. I guess it’s never too far from the sirface. All around our area, people, especially began adopting dogs, to avoid the isolation and loneliness. It’s gotten so bad, that to find a puppy to adopt is close to impossible. The only ones that are left in the shelters or rescues, are the bigger and older breeds. Those who lost their jobs, can’t afford to get puppy from a breeder. So, they turned to rescues. It’s a bit concerning trend. On one hand, puppies are getting homes, but on another, what happens when cute little fur ball needs attention and becomes mischievous teenager? My heart goes to the little ones, that get adopted with the best intention, but when they will need nurturing themselves, I’d like to believe, that their owners won’t turn around and give them back to rescues. On the other hand, those who can’t provide for the sick and elderly bigger dogs, already gave them up. Our rescues are in constant need for supplies and food. People are surviving however they can, but their faithful companions end up abandoned.


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## Mick (Sep 7, 2012)

fjm said:


> I am in tears for you, Mick. Such a wonderful friendship.
> 
> Poppy definitely suffered from stress diarrhoea. It was one of the things that made recognising serious illness so difficult - after years and years of middle of the night upset tummy, completely better within 48 hours, at first the liver symptoms seemed like just another bout of the same old same old.


fjm, 
I’ve been looking for your posts. 
Don’t shed tears for Micki, dear friend. She was and is in my heart. How is Poppy and you are doing? Yours is a rocky path to walk on. Drop a line, please. My hugs to Poppy and Sofie.


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