# Heat Already???!!! (Warning - Picture of evidence and maybe TMI)



## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

Ah - just watched a video about signs a dog is in heat and I recognized more signs. Mochi has been sitting on walks. Just suddenly sitting down. Multiple times during the walk. Not simply refusing to move like she was doing a few weeks ago, but simply sitting suddenly. When I ask her what she is doing and invite her to keep walking, she hops back up and continues the walk. The video said a dog in heat "may sit more frequently"... Also she has been more clingy with us, and has been peeing more in smaller amounts - video said peeing more frequently was also a sign... I thought it was just related to her leaking problem, but she also had more leaking indoors recently too which was concerning us as it had seemed like it was going away. And she is licking down there a lot but also, thought that was related to her leaking. Argh. Anyway, Vet appt tomorrow should help us figure something out.

Edit: Also read that humping can be a sign as well, and she has been humping us. :-/


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

If she was in heat her vulva would be VERY swollen. Are you sure it wasn't anal glands?? Smells like metallic fish.


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

No smell. I also read a lot of different resources say that there may be no visible signs a dog is in heat (like swelling) if the dog is small and that some people never even notice the heat at all... Am doing a search on PF for threads to see other's experiences again (read months ago but want to refresh my memory).


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

Did I read that right, she's only 5 months and starting her first heat? How common is it to start that early, I was expecting 9-10 months at the earliest?


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Mishas first heat was silent. She had next to no bleeding but her vulva did swell. She was 11 months I believe.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> Mishas first heat was silent. She had next to no bleeding but her vulva did swell. She was 11 months I believe.



Did her nipples also swell? Timi's vulva does look bigger to me, but not like a dog in heat. Her nipples are unchanged. I am just terrified of her having a silent heat and finding out about it at the dog park. She will be 15 months May 1st, and her breeder says her dogs come in late, around a year and a half, some as late as two years. Timi had that rough patch when she was still with her breeder, and has been a late developer, so I am guessing that she will come in on the late side, but I am worried about discovering a silent heat at the dog park!


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

*Small update*

Oh I had not heard of a silent heat either. Something else to worry about. LOL. I also thought it might be vaginitis but none of the symptoms I found say anything about this color/liquid spotting. (well, spot, since it's only happened once as far as I can tell)

I had to go to the store for more of her puppy kibble and really wanted to make it her walk for the day (since it is really far I was sure it would knock her out for the rest of the day LOL!) but was worried about what would happen if it was actually heat... I went though and thankfully nothing really happened. So either every doggy she met was fixed and not interested, or she's definitely not in heat. :amen:

Only exception: There was one young male dog though that although he had met her months ago and just sniffed noses as I was holding her then, this time was very much all over her. He kept pinning her to the ground as she tried to puppy-play with him, like he wanted to smother her. He was so eager I even got a claw swipe from him on my neck as I tried to wrestle Mochi out from under him. And he had been *very* desperate to smell her rear-end for the first half of their encounter.

Just want to get to the vet appt tomorrow and see what the vet says. Whew!


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## Scully (Sep 30, 2014)

Vets will know best

i do want to add a uti can cause other dogs to take a active interest in their back end and cause them to sit more as it becomes uncomfortable so it might be worth asking about that while you are there just to make sure.


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

So true. Our vet has been trying to help us pinpoint the leaking issue now that we seem to have cleared up her (first?) UTI a while ago. She was squatting repeatedly for weeks but not able to actually produce any pee after the first squat and was licking a lot. All of that went away soon after finishing her antibiotics. But I think she has a partially recessed vulva so that, plus the leaking issue, may be creating new issues like another UTI or even vaginitis. I will bringing up all these things to the vet, who is already aware of other possibilities like ectopic ureter. Poor little pup - she had such a wet bottom today that a person she met on the street who held her for a while on his lap, ended up with a wet spot on his jeans. I am so happy he was dog lover or I would have been (more) mortified.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Tiny her teats did swell a bit but not till after a couple of weeks in. Her vulva too swelled but not right away. I saw one drop of blood at the beginning then nothing. She smelled like heat though.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Find out from her breeder at what age her mother had her first cycle. They tend to follow what Mama did. 

At her age, I would sooner expect a UTI over a heat cycle, but anything is possible. Maybe it's some strange little hormone quirk mimicking an early heat. You may also want to find out if her mother or any female relatives have ever had issues with a split heat. (where they 'come in' for a bit, go out and come back in).


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> Tiny her teats did swell a bit but not till after a couple of weeks in. Her vulva too swelled but not right away. I saw one drop of blood at the beginning then nothing. She smelled like heat though.



Smelled like heat, huh? I don't know what that smells like, but she smells the same to me.
There was one boy at the park today - he's a notorious humper, tried to hump every dog there but Timi, including a 12 week old puppy, but he moved in from a butt sniff, and licked Timi under there - what the heck was that about!? I have never seen a dog do that before, ever!


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

The smell was bad the second and last week. She was in heat forever it seemed. Way longer than normal. She was spayed before her second heat.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> The smell was bad the second and last week. She was in heat forever it seemed. Way longer than normal. She was spayed before her second heat.



Oh gosh, I am so dreading it. I only had one dog that was unspayed (she followed Jolé who died on the table being spayed, so of course I couldn't). Vets would always ask me if she had regular heats, and I would just shrug my shoulders and say " I don't know, I guess" I thought that the hair on her vulva maybe looked a little stained sometimes, but now that I know about the vulva swelling, the smell, the nipple enlargement, I am thinking that she just NEVER came in. She would up getting spayed at age 10 when she developed a large but benign mass originating in the upper vaginal wall.


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

*Update after Vet visit*

So no further spotting. The vet is not sure what it was since it didn't happen again but she's still determined to get to the bottom of her leaking. The vet did however, confirm she has a recessed vulva, but nowhere near as recessed as many other dogs can have.

They took a sample for a urine culture (finally! The last two times were failures with her peeing on the table/towel from fright and then peeing on the floor from excitement/submission just as the vet tech greeted her). I'll know in a few days the results and if we'll need more meds or to do an ultrasound.

In other news; I found out today that at 19weeks she now weighs 9lbs 11oz! She's so big!  That is pretty much in line with that growth chart people mention as a basic guideline, which always has her topping out at 20lbs full grown. Her grown height estimate has been sporadic as she's grown though, and the most recent measurement of 12in has her stopping at about 16in tall. Which is fine by me.

Also I called PetPlan today to get the 411 on filing claims and ask questions as I noticed I'd spent over $800 on vet visits and meds since she came home February 2nd. From that call alone I am so reassured!. No time limit to file claims, and even exam fees are covered in most cases. I was not expecting either of those facts.:highfive2:


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

BrooklynBonnie said:


> So no further spotting. The vet is not sure what it was since it didn't happen again but she's still determined to get to the bottom of her leaking. The vet did however, confirm she has a recessed vulva, but nowhere near as recessed as many other dogs can have.
> 
> They took a sample for a urine culture (finally! The last two times were failures with her peeing on the table/towel from fright and then peeing on the floor from excitement/submission just as the vet tech greeted her). I'll know in a few days the results and if we'll need more meds or to do an ultrasound.
> 
> ...



So glad to hear that you got Petplan - I was just thinking that she is becoming one very expensive puppy! Exam fees are always covered - I don't know where they got "most cases! That is why I picked them - because the other companies that have a per year deductible instead of a per diagnosis one don't cover an exam fee, in effect making it like there is a deductible each and every time that you go to the Vet. The only worrisome thing is that there is a two week waiting period for the illness part to go into effect - if there was documentation of signs or symptoms of the problem before those two weeks elapsed, I am afraid that this won't be covered. Even if there was though, still put in the claim, you never know, they are often pretty accommodating in their assessments.


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

Thanks Tiny Poodles - I did a lot of research but still was under the impression regular exam fees were not covered even if the visit was due to an actual illness. So happy to hear!

I had PetPlan coverage start Feb 1, the day we brought her home and the day before she went to the vet for her first visit (Feb 2). But I see that she visited the vet once and we picked up some medicine for her a few days later in the first two weeks as Giardia was discovered from her fecal at the first visit. Those two items cost $161 and the Giardia didn't go away so we were back for more visits and medicine and tests afterwards too. I was hoping it would all add up since I chose the $200 deductible with 100% coverage, but no biggy if it doesn't get covered in the end - it's this UTI/Leaking issue that is adding up fast.

Fingers crossed.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

BrooklynBonnie said:


> Thanks Tiny Poodles - I did a lot of research but still was under the impression regular exam fees were not covered even if the visit was due to an actual illness. So happy to hear!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am glad that the UTI/leaking issue was not in the first two weeks! I don't think that they cover parasite things at all, but definitely not in the first two weeks.
Routine things like check-ups are not covered, but an exam for an illness is always covered (and if an illness is caught during the check-up, well then it would be covered - had that happen) Routine things would also be covered if it is part of a work-up, like when Tangee's cough was being worked up, they did a heartworm test, and that was covered even though it turned out to be cardiac.
When Tangee had to go to the Cardiologist, I got mostly around the fact that they only cover specialists at 80 percent (we have the same coverage as you), by taking her to the regular vet first and getting blood work and any X-rays needed done there (Petplan would cover 100 percent of that including the exam fee, then had the cardiologist do the ultrasound, and then she would send the med orders to my regular vet, and she would fill it making them covered at 100 percent. With the extra exam fee at the regular vet it probably would have worked out the same cost if Petplan just paid the cardiologist at 100 percent, but whatever...
Also you should be aware that Petplan covers over the counter things too - they paid for Tangee's nutracal and digestive enzymes, and they are paying for Timi's dandruff shampoo, and Teaka's fish oil, because all are related to a covered diagnosis! I just order them on amazon and submit my receipts!


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

Oh Tiny thank you for all the good real life examples! It is very reassuring and helpful/insightful. I assume the over the counter items still need to have the vet's recommendation/signature to be covered? I went and bought some bladder support supplements for her thinking it might help her leaking, but it wasn't something the vet had suggested so I am thinking it wouldn't be covered, correct? (Just fyi - vet knows she's on these and is fine, just said they won't help anything now).


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

BrooklynBonnie said:


> Oh Tiny thank you for all the good real life examples! It is very reassuring and helpful/insightful. I assume the over the counter items still need to have the vet's recommendation/signature to be covered? I went and bought some bladder support supplements for her thinking it might help her leaking, but it wasn't something the vet had suggested so I am thinking it wouldn't be covered, correct? (Just fyi - vet knows she's on these and is fine, just said they won't help anything now).



You would think so, but nope. I verbally discussed the fish oil with the cardiologist, but she did not write it in her notes. I know because to expedite things I always get and include the Vet's notes with the claim, which can cut weeks out waiting for them to request and receive the documentation from the Vet. I just bought it, submitted the bill, and Petplan paid. Without even discussing it with the Vet, I ordered biotin for skin/coat for Timi, submitted the bill and Petplan paid! I bet that they would cover the bladder supplements that you bought too, as long as the label says that is what it is for, if not you might have to have the Vet explain it to them.
I tell you, you they are a really good company! When Teaka had a number of teeth removed due to numerous reasons, fractures, an infection, attachment loss, plus had two skin biopsies, two different but benign things (one was a cyst, and was a dark pigmented skin tag type thing), I thought "great, there were like 15 different diagnosis', if they apply a $200 deductible to each one, I will wind up owing them money, but what can I do, that is what the policy says" but much to my delight, they only applied one deductible for skin biopsy, and one for extractions - they could have paid me ZERO, and I really would not have thought any less of them because they would have been following the policy, but instead they sent me a check for $1,500 and won me as a dedicated customer for life!


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