# Exhausted, Confused and Frustrated



## TexasPink (Jul 3, 2016)

Not the way to start the new year i know....hope you all had a wonderful holiday. It's been a tough week with Penny, she had been doing so great with her crate training, nearly no accidents and we were able to eliminate her 2:30 am potty break. Life was good. 

This week she's gotten into a routine where she'll whine and whine at different times in the night 1 am, 3 am, this morning it was 4:30 am---and so we take her out. She pees a tiny bit and then races on her hind legs to come back inside. We try to leave her out a bit longer to make sure she's done all her business but she is not interested and pleads to go in.

We bring her in and then she starts whining again. Out we go. Sometimes she pees again (not even 15 mins later!) and sometimes she turns around to come home again. 

This morning she started at 4:30 am. Went out, peed, came back. Whinned. We tried to wait it out---she had just gone potty! But after about 15 mins I open the crate and she peed in it. Clean her up. Back in the crate. Whinning. Try to let it ride....but it's non-stop. Open her crate and she peed AGAIN! Back in crate. Whines again. I take her out. No pee. I want to cry I'm so tired. What the heck is going on??

Signed,
Exhausted, Confused and Frustrated


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Make sure she doesn't have a urinary tract infection


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

What Twyla said. Take Penny to a vet. Her behavior sounds classic for a UTI. If that's the problem, it's easily treated with an antibiotic.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

That does sound like a UTI and an exhausting, annoying night for you.


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## TexasPink (Jul 3, 2016)

Thanks guys, I was thinking maybe a UTI too but it only happens in the wee (no pun intended!) hours of the night. She's fine during the day. 

I don't know if it has something to do with her giardia/coccidia and/or the fact that my husband has been home with her the last couple of weeks for the holidays and giving her more than typical amount of attention.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

It just better to eliminate health issues first and then if it's "I just want to be with you or the crate is no fun" that's another issue. I understand that all to well but it wasn't until each pup was around 9 months that they felt the crate was no fun at night, though I got my girls older ay 4 1/2 and 5 months.

I honestly feel your pain it can't be something else as well, Pia had giardia for months and months( she's a poop eater) so she had mild diarrhea/soft stools all the time. Finally after treating everyone in the house for Giardia, she came back clear and guess what she still had mild diarrhea/soft stools all the time, turns out she has a food intolerance to chicken, beef and lamb. She eats Fish, Salmon and Bison now.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

If you verify that she doesn't have a UTI then I would ignore her at those small hours of the morning. She will give up when she learns that whining doesn't get her anywhere. Peeves used to do this to BF who would take him out and let him wander about for as long as he wanted. Conniving dog did a good job training BF.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

May want to give he less space in the crate if she has no health problems, they do not like to do their business and have to lay in it normally


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I agree with Lily. If all medical causes have been eliminated, she is just manipulating you into going outside, just for the fun of it. She wouldn't be the first one pulling that stunt...

Dogs are sociable creatures, and being crated at night is no fun. So she's making it into a pleasurable activitiy ;-)

When she whines, I would no longer let her out. This is only possiblemif you are 100% sure that she doesn't need to go. So maybe for a while reinstate the 0130 outing. You take her out while she's not whining, don't look at her, don't play with her, don't say a word. If she hasn't done anything after 2-3 minutes (it has to be boring), then back in the crate, still no talking.

Next time she whines, hopefully she did her business before and you don't have to get up. Just give her a cue to stop whining. Don't talk to her besides that.

When she sees you don't give in anymore to the whining, she will stop. But if she's been winning for 2-3 weeks, it might take the same amount of time for her to stop. Just be patient.

Good luck !


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Dechi you are absolutely right about the nocturnal outing needing to be 100% boring, potty and back to crate with no play, no talking, etc. I don't have enough fingers to count the number of rounds of manipulation Peeves has won with BF about going out in the middle of the night.


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## TexasPink (Jul 3, 2016)

Thanks everyone. Last night she didn't whine--yay! But when I woke at 5 am to take her out per our normal routine I saw she had peed in her crate. Boo!

Unfortunately it's about 20 degrees so it took her about 40 mins and three trips outside because it is so cold to get her to pee and poop. But she did.


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## TexasPink (Jul 3, 2016)

Forgot to mention..do you think it's possible still that it's a UTI if she doesn't go in her crate during the day only at night?


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

TexasPink said:


> Forgot to mention..do you think it's possible still that it's a UTI if she doesn't go in her crate during the day only at night?


Personally I would still want to rule it out. It's such an easy test - the vet just needs a urine sample. Some vets will even let you drop off a sample without bringing the dog in. My mom's dog recently had a UTI and wasn't having any accidents...the only reason she took her to the vet was because Hans was extra interested in her...he's intact but normally he doesn't try to hump and if he does a simple "off" does the trick. He wouldn't leave her alone though, so I knew something was up. So I think it's worth investigating.

If it's really cold out, have you considered pad training? I'm wondering if the cold will make housebreaking harder if it's so unpleasant for her to go out.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

No the same thing exactly, I trained Cayenne for a potty patch by using a treat, well the next thing I know every time I turned around she would pee and come running for a cookie and me praising her. She really did not have to go that much, once the cookie and praise stopped she goes about 4 times a day to pee, not cookies or praise any more.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

TexasPink said:


> Forgot to mention..do you think it's possible still that it's a UTI if she doesn't go in her crate during the day only at night?


Yes it is worth testing for a UTI. Be sure to also have the urine cultured.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

TexasPink said:


> Forgot to mention..do you think it's possible still that it's a UTI if she doesn't go in her crate during the day only at night?


Yes, I do think it is actually the most likely explanation for this behavior. During the day when everyone is up and active, she is not apparently having the difficulty but it is possible that you are not as aware of just how often she is going outside or whatever as you are at night (understandably!) and furthermore, she is wide awake and able to be more conscious of trying to control her bladder. Whereas at night, it is harder on all fronts, and your pup is tired and less able to wake herself quickly enough to deal with the accidents.

I honestly think it is highly likely that she has at least a mild UTI and if I were you, I would have her seen by the vet on Monday (or sooner if you have one available today). 

I don't think your pup would wet her crate voluntarily.

P.S. Especially with the little bits of pee when she does go out, and then more little bits. That is a classic sign of a UTI. I would definitely want to rule that out first before moving on to managing a possible behavioral issue (which is also a valid possibility and will be solvable once you know for sure she isn't coping with a UTI).


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## TexasPink (Jul 3, 2016)

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all of your replies. I brought her in to the vet first thing this morning and the vet wasn't really 100% sure either, said it could be a UTI but of course they'd need some pee to really know. Unfortunately her bladder was like bone dry so they couldn't get any. 

The vet was going to give her the antibiotics just in case but she's already on 2 medications to treat her Giardia and Coccidia so I was a little hesitant to put her 3 lb body on a 3rd medicine if we're not sure. So the vet's office kept her for a few hours and let her drink more hoping they could get some pee. They even gave her some kind of fluids indirectly to try to get her bladder more full.

But nada, well to be fair she had a few drips they were able to get but no enough. 

So home we went with the "kit" to retrieve her pee.

Against my better judgement, and because she was way past her mealtime I fed her when we got home and then asked my husband to watch her while I got her more water. 2 seconds later a good ol bucket o' pee on the floor. 

I was so mad at myself. Such a rookie mistake. I almost cried, truly. But whatcha gonna do, yet another learning experience for us.

We just took her out for another break and got about what would be 1/8 of a thimble of pee. It's just really hard to catch it on the tray because she is so low to the ground. 

Hopefully we'll get some more later today. Otherwise the vet said to leave her with them on Monday and they'll try all day. 

They also mentioned some kind of needle? that they go into her with to extract urine sometimes. Never heard of anything like that..have any of you?


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Argh, I am so sorry this has been so frustrating. Sleepless nights, no answers yet and such a difficult thing to collect a sample. No wonder you are exhausted, confused and frustrated!

Sending you positive vibes and I hope this will all be resolved as speedily as possible!

Btw, I think you were wisely cautious about not adding a medication to your 3 pounder's regimen until you know for sure if she needs it. Dang, your little one has been through the wringer with the giardia and coccida already. Perhaps her little system has just been overwhelmed with so much going on -- illness and medications and so forth? It isn't a lot of consolation right now while you are exhausted and in the thick of it, and maybe once she has recovered and finished all these meds, things will settle back down. Here's hoping!


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

TexasPink said:


> They also mentioned some kind of needle? that they go into her with to extract urine sometimes. Never heard of anything like that..have any of you?


Yes, a vet wanted to do cytocentesis with Zooey, but it freaked me out too much. I'd only do it if collecting a sterile urine sample was absolutely necessary.

I think it's a UTI from what you describe, especially given that she has those parasites. Poor thing, and poor you! Did she come from a reputable place?


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## TexasPink (Jul 3, 2016)

@zooeysmom yes I believe so, I did a ton of research over nearly a year because I was so cautious about getting a sick pup. The guy was well regarded online from what I saw, had a special designation from AKC and was super involved in the local poodle club. 

So I don't know why my girl is having such a tough puppyhood--at least she is always in good spirits! Ok off to pan for gold!!


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

The needle method is cystocentesis, and it's typically used for cats. Also, it ensures a clean catch that doesn't accidentally pick up any external bacteria. It's a good thing.

I would also refer to Jean Donaldson's Culture Clash specifically in her house training discussion. While I think your sweet puppy could well have a UTI and you are smart to keep testing, I also wonder if I'm seeing a pattern with her eliminating when you are out of sight. Just something to mull over and be sure every time she eliminates appropriately you are reassuring her she is the best, smartest puppy on earth. And when she eliminates inappropriately you are not scolding or punishing her in any way. I've even read don't let them see you clean up the inappropriate elimination product, but am not sure of the relative importance of that.


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## TexasPink (Jul 3, 2016)

I heard back from the vet last night and she said there is a trace of protein and more white bloodcells than normal (but also said this could be due to the concentrated urine we provided) and no bacteria. So it could possibly still be a mild UTI (we'd have to pull the sterile sample by needle to confirm). 

She is still peeing in her crate though. Last night we added back the 2:30 am potty break (we also do it at 9:30, midnight, and 5 am) and she was good when I took her out at 2:30 but then when my husband got up at 5 she had peed in her crate and it wasn't warm so wasn't super recent. So tonight we're going to try moving the 2:30 break to 3 am. 

But when the dog walker came at 9:30 she also came to find an accident and that has never happened at that time of day so we're really regressing it seems. 

The vet said it could be ectopic ureter and that would require x-rays and more tests. 

So we left it off that she'd follow up with us in a week and we'd try to rule out whether or not it could be a potty training issue. I wonder if us being home for the holidays threw her off course. She was doing so good for a while. 

So---still exhausted and now less frustrated but more confused than ever before. 

P.S. Today our new dog walker came and accidentally fed her her whole day' worth of food. Aye!


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