# Healthy dog foods



## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

What do you mean by bad food? (Galen says cat food is very good, and it's really unfair I won't let him eat it for every meal.)

Why is grain free one of your criteria?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I’m a little confused by your meat-free request. Dogs are commonly referred to as omnivores, with some arguing they’re actually carnivores. Why are you looking for meat-free recipes?


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I'm not aware of any dog food which is both vegetarian and also grain free. Honestly, I wouldn't feed it if I did find one. Meats and grains have been a part of the dog diet since their ancestors crept out of the woods to sleep by our campfires. By eliminating those two food types, you are limited to getting calories from foods which were not as big a part of the ancestral canine diet: root vegetables, squashes, and legumes. While dogs are amazingly adaptable, I think you run the risk of long term nutritional imbalances with serious health effects if you drift too far away from what they naturally eat.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

To be considered a healthy food, the food needs to be nutritionally balanced. This isn't a question of which brand particularly but very much what that company does to produce nutritionally balanced foods. 

_Balanced diet isn't just having a range of ingredients, it's also a proper combination of nutrients and how those ingredients mix with each other to provide proper nutrition.

Here's some resources to help you determine whether a food will be nutritious and healthy for your poodle. A food doesn't need to be expensive to be very good so don't let that be too big a criteria. After you find a couple to try, your poodle will likely have the final say .

About ingredient lists:

*Why you shouldn’t judge a pet food by its ingredient list*
Although ingredient lists are commonly used by pet owners and most pet food rating sites to determine the quality of pet foods, this approach has many pitfalls and usually is not a good way to select a food.
vetnutrition.tufts.edu

*Some tips on deciphering dog food labels from:*
Best Dog Food: How to Know What's Right for Your Dog (akc.org)
How to Read a Dog Food Label – American Kennel Club
Your best tool for deciding what to feed your dog is right on the can or bag. But first, you need to know how to read a dog food label.
www.akc.org www.akc.org

Pet Food Labels - General | FDA
Animal Food & Feeds | FDA
Pet Food Labels
The pet food label contains a wealth of information, if one knows how to read it.
www.fda.gov www.fda.gov


*It's Not Just Grain Free

It’s Not Just Grain-Free: An Update on Diet-Associated Dilated Cardiomyopathy*
Dr. Freeman provides an update on diet-associated dilated cardiomyopathy in dogs
vetnutrition.tufts.edu

*Questions You Should Be Asking

Questions You Should Be Asking About Your Pet’s Food*
How can you tell about the quality and nutritional expertise of a pet food company? Here are some questions savvy owners should ask companies to select the best possible food for their pets.
vetnutrition.tufts.edu

*Selecting The Best Food - World Small Animal Veterinary Association*
https://wsava.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Selecting-the-Best-Food-for-your-Pet.pdf

*AAFCO - Association of American Feed Control Officials
The Role of AAFCO in Pet Food Regulation*

talkspetfood.aafco.org

I wouldn't rule a company out automatically because they have a large advertising budget. That kind of company can probably afford to have veterinary nutritionists on staff to formulate the various foods for various sizes, special needs, and stages.

If you prefer to stick with smaller manufacturers rather than big name companies, remember to look for the AAFCO label on the food, and something I knew to research on appliances but didn't think of doing for dog food til another recent thread. Search for "Who makes *___* dog food?". You might get some surprises, Some familiar names seem to have been traded around like major league athletes for some years now.

Look for the AAFCO label or stamp on any food. FDA and local and state agencies all play a role in regulating pet food and participate in the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO)External Link Disclaimer. While AAFCO itself has no regulatory authority, this voluntary association of local, state, and federal feed control officials works to:_

_Safeguard the health of animals and people;_
_Ensure consumer protection; and_
_Provide a level playing field of orderly commerce for the animal feed industry._

_*Food for thought*

“My primary recommendation would be to look at nutrients rather than ingredients in foods,” says Wortinger*. “The body does not care if the meat is chicken, beef, or reindeer; what it cares about is the amino acids included in the food. The body does not care whether the fat is animal or plant-based, but whether all the essential fatty acids are present. Look at nutrients, not marketing,” she says.

“As with any grain, when higher levels are included in the diet, protein digestibility can go down. That is why there are no ‘all grain’ diets for dogs or cats,” she says. “As a grain, it has a biologic value [a measure of the amount of essential amino acids in a food] of 74; muscle meats, such as beef and chicken, have a BV of about 75. Egg is the gold standard for BV at 100, with whey and casein [milk proteins] just below that.

“When corn is combined with other plant products, they together can easily reach a BV of 100. All plants, due to their cellulose layers, have decreased digestibility when compared to meats. But when ground and cooked, so that the cellulose layer is broken, digestibility is comparable,” Wortinger noted.

*Ann Wortinger BIS, LVT, VTS (ECC, SAIM, Nutrition). She is a veterinary nutritionist who has worked in the field for more than 20 years and is currently the hospital administrator for Animal Cancer and Imaging Center in Canton, Mich.

Jennifer Larsen, DVM, PhD, DACVN, is an associate professor of clinical nutrition at the Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital (VMTH) at the University of California, Davis. She also does clinical nutritional consulting through the VMTH Nutrition Support Service. She says, “Grains, and any other single category or individual ingredients, are neither good nor bad.

“Rather, what is important is how the ingredients work together to create the full nutritional profile of the diet. Likewise, carbohydrates, as an energy source, are utilized by the body the same way regardless of source, such as grain, legume, or tubers, and different sources of carbohydrates also bring other nutrients, such as fiber, fatty acids, and amino acids. Again, no ingredient has a simple effect since each provides multiple nutrients, and it’s not consumed in a vacuum.”

“It’s important to think of food in terms of energy; animals need energy to live,” says Robert Backus, DVM, PhD, DACVN; he is associate professor and director of the Nestle-Purina Endowed Small Animal Nutrition Program at the University of Missouri. “That energy comes from protein, fats, and carbohydrates. The question is creating the most efficient mix. You could do that with all protein, but the animal would then burn protein for energy, which is inefficient.”

Rebecca Remillard, PhD, DVM, DACVN
*Myth #3:* One can evaluate the ‘quality’ of a pet food by reading the ingredient list.

Remillard says, “Despite aggressive marketing campaigns by various manufacturers and self-appointed websites, the ingredient list according to AAFCO [the Association of American Feed Control Officials] should not impart any information regarding the quality, nutritional balance, or digestibility of the pet food product.

“The ingredient list was simply not designed, or is not regulated, as a measure of pet food quality. So the source of meat or carbohydrates in a pet food is not important to the nutritional profile in a complete and balanced product,” she notes.

*Myth #4:* Corn/grains are non-nutritive ‘fillers.’_

_Whole grains contribute more fiber and vitamins while ground grains are more digestible and provide more protein. Which is chosen will depend on what other ingredients are contained in the food._
_“I've heard concerns about them [grains] being ‘filler,’ which is nonsense,” Larsen says. “They are added because they contribute energy and other essential nutrients, as well as very useful dietary components, such as fiber, which is an underappreciated nutrient.”

Cline similarly relates that corn and other grains can be part of a nutritious pet diet: “Depending on how grains are processed, they can be highly digestible. Some grains contribute dietary fiber to pet foods, which can play an important role in intestinal health.

“Although fiber is not a required nutrient, I find that it can be very beneficial in optimizing the stool quality and the overall health of my patients. Grain-free diets can provide optimal nutrition for cat and dogs, however diets containing grain can do the same.”

Source Busting Myths, Corn and Grain - Best Friends Veterinary Center_ 


This is a site with home cooking info recommended by fjm:


DogAware.com: Diet & Health Info for Man's Best Friend


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## Olive Love (Jul 22, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I’m a little confused by your meat-free request. Dogs are commonly referred to as omnivores, with some arguing they’re actually carnivores. Why are you looking for meat-free recipes?


I am looking to make homemade food for Olive. I am vegitarian and i will not appreciate the smell that meat will bring into the house. Also I find it kind of gross, touching animal parts. I will be suplementing her diet with grocery store eggs.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Olive Love said:


> I am looking to make homemade food for Olive. I am vegitarian and i will not appreciate the smell that meat will bring into the house. Also I find it kind of gross, touching animal parts. I will be suplementing her diet with grocery store eggs.


Hmmm. I’m not sure if you’re 100% serious here, @Olive Love. But if you don’t want to cook meat, I would suggest just not going the homecooked route. Part of the responsibility of dog ownership is feeding a species-appropriate diet.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

https://www.smalldoorvet.com/learning-center/nutrition/vegetarian-vegan-diets-cats-dogs



Dogs vitamin, mineral, and protein needs are very challenging to meet with a vegetarian diet.

I have been feeding home cooked to Annie, and I have been working with a spreadsheet that compares what I feed to nutritional standards for dogs. Because of her special diet, she is only getting about 30-40% of her calories from meat and eggs. In order to meet her nutrition needs, I am having to add quite a few supplements to make up for that missing meat. What meat she is eating is about half organs - kidney and liver, plus she needs fish oil. The organ meats are needed to meet copper, zinc, and iron needs, among other vitamins and minerals. Without that meat, her diet would be reminiscent of fortified cereal, and I would have to add even more supplements. Mostly carbs with a long list of supplements. Eggs are good food, but not a complete diet and are low in some essential nutrients.

Organ meats - particularly kidney - are smelly even by meat eater standards. Oysters, which I used for zinc prior to switching to a supplement, smell gross IMO. If you have an aversion to cooking meat, I suggest sticking with a good quality kibble, and possibly adding toppings as needed.

I have been seeing fresh dog food in some grocery stores - perhaps that's an option?


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Much as I love all my pets - my horses, my dogs, my cat - it is important for me to remember they are not human. Their health and comfort require me to treat them according to the needs of their species, not mine. If I felt it ethically necessary to have a completely vegetarian lifestyle, I would also choose pets - rabbits, horses, geese, gerbils - which were compatible with that lifestyle.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Look into the Fresh Pet brand, available in grocery stores and pet stores as mentioned above (in Canada too). It's cooked fresh food, then refrigerated. Twyla feeds it to one or more of her dogs. It's completely nutritionally balanced, and is no different than if you had cooked it yourself but is done for you. It is not vegan but is nutritionally balanced. 

Where to Buy Freshpet Dog Food, Cat Food, and Pet Treats - Freshpet

There are some other companies that sell "home cooked" foods for dogs that are available in Canada. Most of these are a subscription based service where you buy, they cook, they deliver to you. The hazard with that concept is if problems with delivery arise, you and Olive might be in a pickle and will still need an alternative plan that works for both of you. Some of these might have a vegan option.

fresh cooked dog food canada - Google Search

The benefit to going the above route is that you can feed Olive a diet more natural and beneficial to her nutritional needs and doesn't require you to handle any meats or have the aroma of cooked meats. 

For a completely vegan diet, here is a link to an article written by a veterinary nutritionist. Creating a vegan diet is possible but it's not simple. If you want to home cook a completely vegan diet, it can't be stressed enough that you consult with, and create recipes with, the advice of a veterinary nutritionist. The complexity of getting the right ingredients in the right proportions that work together synergistically to meet all nutritional requirements is best done with expert advice.

Vegan Dogs – A healthy lifestyle or going against nature? – Clinical Nutrition Service at Cummings School (tufts.edu)

There are companies that have vegan kibble and wet foods (unsure of Canadian availability for all).
vegan dog food canada - Google Search
Vegan and Vegetarian Dog Food Canada | Canadian Pet Connection


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## curlflooffan (Mar 27, 2020)

cowpony said:


> Much as I love all my pets - my horses, my dogs, my cat - it is important for me to remember they are not human. Their health and comfort require me to treat them according to the needs of their species, not mine. If I felt it ethically necessary to have a completely vegetarian lifestyle, I would also choose pets - rabbits, horses, geese, gerbils - which were compatible with that lifestyle.


Sorry for the unecessary and irrelevant nitpicking but fun fact gerbils are actually omnivores! They should have a diet thats around 10 to 15% animal protein. Dried mealworms are a healthier treats than seeds. My gerbil recently tried to hunt a moth. Hamsters and Gerbils can have tiny little omlettes for a snack.

If hamsters or gerbils are given a fiber bases diet like rabbits they will die.

Another fun fact my gerbils know the difference between a dried worm and a seed. They will take seeds and grains and hide them in their food storage chamber. But if given an insect they will eat it immediately. Their instincts telling them that an insect will not store well and could if still alive eat their storage.

On to the topic at hand. I take great care to provide species appropriate nutrition and enrichment. I hide and scatter feed the food for my gerbils to replicate the foraging behaviours they would have in the wild.

Do I like putting my hand into a tub of dried worms? No. Did I like having a box of locusts in my bedroom and sprinkling salad with live worms when I had a bearded dragon? Nope.

Did I get a shiver of disgust as I had to rehide my foster dogs pill in a icky pile of wet dog food for the third time that morning because he kept eating around it. Or when I had to dislodge a sloppery mushy piece of kipple from his kong to clean it? Absolutely.

But that is just something one has to do when one has pets.

But unlike with my insect loving rodents you have an easy solution. If you cant stand the feel of fresh meat feed your dog kibble.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Olive Love said:


> I am looking to make homemade food for Olive. I am vegitarian and i will not appreciate the smell that meat will bring into the house. Also I find it kind of gross, touching animal parts. I will be suplementing her diet with grocery store eggs.


My diet is vegan, I completely understand that grossness. 

My work around is to buy precooked meat. I particularly like Costco Turkey breast. Not a lot of spices added, basic turkey meat. I don’t have to pick out bones, fat or skin. All I do it cut it up in sections and mix with other ingredients in my food processor.

I don’t use cold cuts…. Too much salt for my dogs.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

I too will flee the house if somebody's frying hamburger. The smell for me is unbearable.
But why would you have to cook meat for a dog? Surely they can deal with raw meat...


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## Jstanfill (Oct 22, 2020)

Olive Love said:


> I am loking for some heatly foods for miss picky Olivey who has been eating BAD foods.I am wondering about some HEATHY dog food brands that are grain free. I am wondering if primal pet foods ans Carna 4 are okay for her. We may just be oving away from raw, here. I am more inclined towards home made food, are they any meat free recepies for a picky eater?


Hi might I suggest the science diet chicken and barley dog food my cavapoo has gone through many bags , she loves it , vet got her started using it and hasn’t stopped


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## tupolo (Apr 24, 2021)

Olive Love said:


> I am loking for some heatly foods for miss picky Olivey who has been eating BAD foods.I am wondering about some HEATHY dog food brands that are grain free. I am wondering if primal pet foods ans Carna 4 are okay for her. We may just be oving away from raw, here. I am more inclined towards home made food, are they any meat free recepies for a picky eater?


I've learned from multiple reliable sources that grain-free dog foods are nutritionally deficient. Dogs diets should include grains!


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## Jstanfill (Oct 22, 2020)

I learned that grain free is linked to heart issues fed my chi that for years and she had enlarged heart as well as murmur , she was eating royal canin


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## tupolo (Apr 24, 2021)

On the American Kennel Club internet site, read FDA Grain-Free Diet Alert: What Dog Owners Need to Know (akc.org) www.akc.org/expert-advice/nutrition/fda-grain-free-diet-alert-dcm/


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

tupolo said:


> On the American Kennel Club internet site, read FDA Grain-Free Diet Alert: What Dog Owners Need to Know (akc.org) www.akc.org/expert-advice/nutrition/fda-grain-free-diet-alert-dcm/


There's newer information on this topic. See this thread Canine Dilated Cardiomyopathy Linked to Pulses in...


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## Deere (Jun 25, 2021)

Olive Love said:


> I am loking for some heatly foods for miss picky Olivey who has been eating BAD foods.I am wondering about some HEATHY dog food brands that are grain free. I am wondering if primal pet foods ans Carna 4 are okay for her. We may just be oving away from raw, here. I am more inclined towards home made food, are they any meat free recepies for a picky eater?


I am aware of someone whom went against their vet's and shelter's advice and fed their puppy a Vegan diet for almost 9 months because they are Vegan. This young dog got extremely ill but survived. She is 6 years old now and has numerous health problems related to her stomach, small/ large intestine and her overall health for which she's on several expensive daily medications.
If you don't want to feed what is appropriate for the species that you are caring for then Re-Home that animal!


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

Just because a dog _could _live on a grain-free and meat-free diet doesn't mean they _should_. If you are averse to feeding kibble, and don't want to work with fresh meat, there are several dehydrated, freeze-dried, and/or frozen foods commercially available. I would choose them over an unbalanced homemade diet.

When you say she's been eating "bad" food, what exactly do you mean? IMO, a "bad" food is something like Doggy Bag kibble, which I wouldn't feed even if they paid me. Something like Dog Chow or Alpo wouldn't be my first choice of food, but I wouldn't necessarily consider them a "bad" food, since lots of dogs do fine on them.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

I agree with others but want to chime in that for a picky eater I would use an air dried food like Ziwipeak or Real Meat. These are dried so you won't have to handle any meat and they are very high quality. I use them as treats for Misha. They should be highly palatable and are balanced diets. Not raw but are dried in a way that minimizes nutrient loss.


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## poodlelover6 (Aug 30, 2021)

I read about raw dog food, that its much better to feed the dog in this way.
I Also found this typo of food: Dehydrated raw dog food 
Have anybody of you guys try this out? Maybe know difference between it or any recommendations?


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Quoting TeamHellhound here


TeamHellhound said:


> Kibble is not bad. Raw is not bad. There _are _pros and cons to each of them, though. IMO, the "best food" is one you dog likes to eat, does well on, and that you can afford to feed.
> 
> There are four legal formula definitions for commercial dog food: "Pregnancy/Lactation", "Growth", "Maintenance" , and "All Life Stages". Any foods that don't meet the regulations for one of these categories must be labeled as a treat or “for intermittent or supplemental feeding only”.


I'll add "must be nutritionally balanced" to that. 
To be considered a healthy food, the food needs to be nutritionally balanced. This isn't a question of which brand particularly but very much what that company does to produce nutritionally balanced foods.

Balanced diet isn't just having a range of ingredients, it's also a proper combination of nutrients and how those ingredients mix with each other to provide proper nutrition. A food doesn't need to be expensive to be very good. Your poodle will likely have the final say.


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