# Heart murmur - help!



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Poppy has just been diagnosed with a Grade 2 heart murmur. I know this is nothing to panic about, but am worrying anyway! The vet's initial advice was to monitor it, and plan on a scan etc at a later stage, but then suggested that if I preferred he could do a scan very soon, to give more information and a baseline for future comparison. As I am a great believer in gathering information she is booked in for tests a week on Friday.

Reassuring advice and anecdotes preferred, of course, but it would help to begin to wrap my head around what to expect.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I hope it's an innocent murmur with an excellent prognosis and doesn't need treatment. I'm with you, I would want it investigated sooner.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I’ve had a dog with grade 2 heart murmur and she was the most active/hyper dog I’ve ever had.

She never had any medical problems due to it. I never really did any extensive testing, the vet just monitored her when we went.

I hope it’s the same for Poppy !


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I think you are very sensible to have a baseline set of tests. After that I would perhaps consider more frequent vet checks and new testing if the vet hears a change. We had a beagle with a heart murmur when I was growing up. Eventually she took diuretics but had a good long life (late teens) despite the murmur and subsequent congestive heart failure.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Thanks all - I don't think it will remain innocent, as it is a new development and she is 9, which makes it very likely that it is a mitral valve issue and will progress, but I can hope. There are new treatments that can delay the onset of CHD even if the valve shows signs of thickening (https://www.rvc.ac.uk/research/news/general/epic-breakthrough-at-the-rvc), and I am trying not to borrow trouble - I just need time and information so that this becomes the new reality. It is hard to think of Poppy as doing anything other than popping - she is a typical pogo poodle when she is excited, and she is very easily excited! 

I think she will be on 6 monthly vet checks in the future. I was rather hoping that now Pip is so much better I could have a few months without vet visits - I feel as though I have been living there of late. But my vet is the practice heart specialist and really knows his stuff, so she is in good hands and I will follow his recommendations, although leaving her for an hour while all the tests are done is going to be hard on everyone involved!

And that is exactly what I need to hear, Catherine - late teens is our aim!


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I would get a baseline of where Poppy is, and go from there. That said I have had many animals that had low grade murmurs without issue.
My former feral kitty Mr. Oliver Toes had had heart worm at some point and survived it on his own, but it left him with Asthma and a low grade heart murmur for the next 12 years, he had to take meds for the asthma and not the murmur.
You really on need to worry if there is a change in behavior, like sleeping more or tiring easier. I did had a kitty named Holly who went from having a murmur as a kitten and went to full blown cardio myopathy by age two, she took atenolol but ended up having a heart attack and passing at age six. 
Flower had a low grade murmur in her latter years no ill effects.
Beatrice has a low grade murmur, she is being monitored... yeah on top of everything else.

I wouldn't worry yet


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

I think it's very wise to get the baseline tests done, I know it's hard not to worry but try to think positive. We will be thinking of you and Poppy, hugs.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

fjm said:


> And that is exactly what I need to hear, Catherine - late teens is our aim!



I should add that that was over 40 years ago that we started with CHF in our beagle and clearly there are many better treatment options now. I do wish you the best in all this!


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Copying this from a post of mine in November. It's our experience with our Noel. It is different for everybody, but some things may apply.

https://www.poodleforum.com/29-poodle-health/250098-mini-poo-mix-heart-murmur.html#post3018266

https://wyss.harvard.edu/gene-therapy-for-canine-heart-failure/

The pimobendan has proven so beneficial that it is becoming the new standard for treatment, and even to being given earlier in the course of treatment. I haven't looked to se if they've gotten any more results in the gene therapy approach.

Sending positive thoughts your way.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I think I too would have wanted a baseline. On a good note, my neighbor recently lost her almost 17 year old shih tzu to CHF she had it for many many years and it was treated with good result, she was 9 or 10 when diagnosed. Last year I lost my 15 year old chihuahua to chf, he was a grade 3-4 for the past 5 years and only in the last year did he need medication.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

My old man supposedly has a grade 3 heart murmer. A vet diagnosed it last year and he hasn't had a lick of trouble with it. In fact, we just competed in an agility competition last weekend (We did 8 classes throughout the day).
I do plan to have him rechecked next time he goes to the vet to see whats happening there but to date it hasn't been any change.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Has anyone been given advice about diet, etc? I am wondering if there are any changes I should make. I am pretty sure she gets ample taurine, although a little raw heart may get added in future, and possibly beef for the L-Carnatine. All things that fall under the won't-harm-might-help heading, and certainly under advice from my vet.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

All those many moons ago we eventually had our beagle on a prescription diet, but nowadays I doubt I would go that route if I could avoid it.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Reading up sodium restriction is only advised in the late stages, but my dogs' usual diet is pretty low in sodium anyway - above the AAFCO minimum, but way down there with the lowest commercial diets, as well as being high in taurine and carnitine. There is advice to avoid peaks and troughs - sudden surges from high sodium treats or meals - but I haven't found any research to back that up yet. It wouldn't be difficult - just avoid buying salty snacks so the dogs don't expect to share them, and swap out canned sardines for salmon. I shall ask my vet. Fortunately all the animals consider salmon oil a perfect condiment, so I shall start adding a few drops routinely to the dogs food, and the cats can have it from a teaspoon - in this hot weather their preference for snacking and leaving the rest till later is tricky enough to manage already, without the added pong of decaying salmon oil!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I think you are being very smart about having a baseline. It is good to know at what point you began..... you need that peace of mind to know when you are progressing and at what rate. With you in charge, Poppy will be in the best hands possible!


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## Caraline (Apr 10, 2018)

I hope it turns out to be one that does not cause trouble. Both my Cavs had heart murmurs from a young age. Very common in Cavs. Beaus is still doing well as an old man now, and my recently passed Sonny lived longer than the average Cav.


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## sunfunartist (Mar 24, 2017)

Barney has had a heart murmur since he was a puppy. They told me not to worry. However I should have taken him to a cardiologist much sooner. He now is 10 and is in stage c. He is pimodin, Lasix and enapril. There is a good group called mighty hearts project. I suggest joining their FB Group. https://mightyheartsproject.org. Another good FB group is mitral valve disease and the cavalier. Apparently it is a common disease in Cavaliers. If you are willing to spend the money you can have it repaired in Japan or UK. I would have done if Barney was younger. There are no surgeries in the US. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Just home from the vets. Poppy has a very slight leak in the pulmonary artery - nothing to worry about - and the expected beginnings of nodules on the mitral valve; everything else is fine. The left atrium is not enlarged, so she is considered to be at stage B1, and the advice is to watch and wait. She could stay like this for years, or it could progress quite quickly, so we have agreed a check up on the heart murmur in 6 months, with a further scan if it is getting worse, and otherwise another scan in 12 months.

I came across this excellent article by the UK's leading expert, Adrian Boswood: https://inpractice.bmj.com/content/40/Suppl_1/12 It is good to know that there is so much research going into mitral valve disease!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Well let's hope for the slow progressing prognosis. I think it is really good that you have a clear picture of where she is now so you can understand changes as they come (very slowly of course).


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## JenandSage (Mar 9, 2018)

That sounds like good news so far. You have also learned a lot already judging from your posts about your research


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I'm so glad you had the follow up with the vet. You know what she currently has and you have a plan for following her so you can catch any progression early and treat. I do hope that her problems remains benign and stable.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm so glad to hear this good news in the midst of the scary. I had forgotten, til you wrote it, that progression is not inevitable. I'm happy that your hope for many more years with pretty Poppy is still possible.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Yes, I am very lucky that I can just get the testing done without having to worry about the cost - I have been building a savings account for the animals for a number of years, and it at least is pretty healthy. The bill came to around £250/$325, which I think is very reasonable for such a thorough investigation and careful explanation. The vet also said that he saw little benefit in trying to reduce sodium unless they were already getting excessive amounts, so crisps and breadsticks may not be completely off the menu!

Sophy and I spent the hour climbing up to Kendal Castle - a serious cardiovascular workout at 12 noon on a hot day:


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