# desperately seeking poodle - miniature near NY



## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Hello Tina,

If you are not hearing responses it may be because A) wait lists are extremely full right now as puppy demand soared during Covid or B) You may want to evaluate what you're saying in your contact attempts.

For that area I'd be looking at Eriand, Silvabirch, and Rodell's. Probably others that I'm not remembering in that location. But expect wait lists to be very long.

You may want to post a sample of what you're sending breeders in an email, and perhaps we could note if anything in the wording is causing an issue with responses.


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## TinaLina (May 8, 2021)

Raindrops, thank you so much for this recommendations. I will contact them as well. Hopefully my search will turn out to be fruitful 

As for the e-mails I sent, they do vary somewhat depending of the breeder, but the main body remains the same. Here is the sample of my e-mails. Any corrections or suggestions are welcomed with open arms 

"*Dear... I came across your name in my search for reputable breeders of miniature poodles and large toy poodles. In brief, I am searching for a breeder who knows the pedigrees for generations back, the type, movement, and structure of poodles. And, who gives their dogs the finest they deserve 
Although I prefer black color, white, blue, silver could work as well. I do not have gender preference. If you have or planning to have new litters during this year, I would like to introduce myself to you over the phone and get to know you as well. Please get back to me when you get a chance. Thank you..."*

How does it sound to you?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

In addition to Eriand and Rodell you might want to look at Songbird in Connecticut. A friend of mine has a very nice mpoo from Celestial. Your introduction seems really great BTW.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Your intro sounds great! I had a VERY hard time reaching my current breeder. Don’t give up! My husband called (I hate calling strangers and end up sounding stupid because I’m so nervous they’re going to think I’m stupid. Which is stupid. Thanks anxiety!) He left messages a couple times, and I messaged her through her site before she responded. It makes sense though, and I don’t fault her for it. High quality breeders are busy! Now we talk on email, but even that isn’t frequent.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I think your introduction sounds good. The only thing you might add, which got a very good response when we were puppy hunting, is a very small bit about yourself. For example, I was able to say that I live a dog-centric life, with either my husband or myself (or both) home most days, and that we plan lots of fun adventures for us to enjoy together, dog included. Just one sentence, but it gets them imagining one of their puppies in your household.

This is nitpicky, but you might also want to tweak it very slightly to make it specific to the breeder you’re contacting, rather than sounding like you’re casting a wide net. What do you like about them? Easy to fit that in without sacrificing brevity.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

I agree that sounds like a good intro, though I would also agree with Peggy that a bit about you and why you want a dog would be helpful. You may also hit snags if you say new litters *during this year* because many breeders have waitlists packed for this year's litters, and you may find that you need to wait until early next year. The long wait isn't always typical, but demand is just really high right now.


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## TinaLina (May 8, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I think your introduction sounds good. The only thing you might add, which got a very good response when we were puppy hunting, is a very small bit about yourself. For example, I was able to say that I live a dog-centric life, with either my husband or myself (or both) home most days, and that we plan lots of fun adventures for us to enjoy together, dog included. Just one sentence, but it gets them imagining one of their puppies in your household.
> 
> This is nitpicky, but you might also want to tweak it very slightly to make it specific to the breeder you’re contacting, rather than sounding like you’re casting a wide net. What do you like about them? Easy to fit that in without sacrificing brevity.


got it! great advice, thanks a million


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## TinaLina (May 8, 2021)

lily cd re said:


> In addition to Eriand and Rodell you might want to look at Songbird in Connecticut. A friend of mine has a very nice mpoo from Celestial. Your introduction seems really great BTW.


I did e-mail to Sonbird 2 weeks ago and do not mind following up again. Sometimes perseverance gets the desired results 
As for your friend's mpoo from Celestial - how big is he/she? I have an active life style and will be taking my poodle with me to most places. Therefore I think a smaller mpoo is what I need. If there is such a thing as a small mini.


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## TinaLina (May 8, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I think your introduction sounds good. The only thing you might add, which got a very good response when we were puppy hunting, is a very small bit about yourself. For example, I was able to say that I live a dog-centric life, with either my husband or myself (or both) home most days, and that we plan lots of fun adventures for us to enjoy together, dog included. Just one sentence, but it gets them imagining one of their puppies in your household.
> 
> This is nitpicky, but you might also want to tweak it very slightly to make it specific to the breeder you’re contacting, rather than sounding like you’re casting a wide net. What do you like about them? Easy to fit that in without sacrificing brevity.


I can definitely to add a line about myself. Thank you!


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## TinaLina (May 8, 2021)

Raindrops said:


> I agree that sounds like a good intro, though I would also agree with Peggy that a bit about you and why you want a dog would be helpful. You may also hit snags if you say new litters *during this year* because many breeders have waitlists packed for this year's litters, and you may find that you need to wait until early next year. The long wait isn't always typical, but demand is just really high right now.


Perhaps to replace it with "upcoming litters"?


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## Getting ready (May 4, 2019)

You may want to call too. Many of the breeders in reached out to responded more to calls.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

My friend's Songbird Poodle is oversize. They do performance/companion sports and just completed the Rally Champion title, so a very on the go girl. My mom has a smaller mpoo from Eriand. He goes all over with her.


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## TinaLina (May 8, 2021)

lily cd re said:


> My friend's Songbird Poodle is oversize. They do performance/companion sports and just completed the Rally Champion title, so a very on the go girl. My mom has a smaller mpoo from Eriand. He goes all over with her.


please forgive my ignorance, but how big is oversized mini? closer to standards in size? Maybe your mom's mpoo size is what I need.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

An oversize mini is over 15" at withers. My friend's dog is about 17" My mom's boy is about 11" at the withers. 10" being the max height for a toy. One thing I would keep in mind for your looking is that since you are an active lifestyle type smaller dogs can be a bit fragile.


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## TinaLina (May 8, 2021)

lily cd re said:


> An oversize mini is over 15" at withers. My friend's dog is about 17" My mom's boy is about 11" at the withers. 10" being the max height for a toy. One thing I would keep in mind for your looking is that since you are an active lifestyle type smaller dogs can be a bit fragile.


right, this is why I'm directing my search to mini breeders. Toys seem too delicate for me but if there is an oversize toy, it may be ok. I guess it is almost impossible to say 100% what the puppy will end up being. I already e-mailed Eriand 
thanks a million!


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Imagine a breeder getting a hundred, or more, emails similar to yours. I think you need to add something that makes your note rise above the rest. Try to be brief, but give them a reason to want to get back to YOU. Letting them know your ability to love, train, and make ample time for their baby may help. I wish you luck!


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## TinaLina (May 8, 2021)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Imagine a breeder getting a hundred, or more, emails similar to yours. I think you need to add something that makes your note rise above the rest. Try to be brief, but give them a reason to want to get back to YOU. Letting them know your ability to love, train, and make ample time for their baby may help. I wish you luck!


So true! Thanks Magna_Tom!


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## Getting ready (May 4, 2019)

Our Eriand boy is around 15. He can easily hike 5-10 miles but his leash manners deteriorate after about 2. Work in progress.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Getting ready said:


> Our Eriand boy is around 15. He can easily hike 5-10 miles but his leash manners deteriorate after about 2. Work in progress.


Haha Misha is the opposite. His leash manners get perfect as he tires out! I would say he could probably do the same length but not in 90+ degrees. In cool weather he can go a long time.


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## PowersPup (Aug 28, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Haha Misha is the opposite. His leash manners get perfect as he tires out! I would say he could probably do the same length but not in 90+ degrees. In cool weather he can go a long time.


Same with Topper! We did a 5-mile hike on soft forest trails yesterday and he pulled for the first 2 miles. He was so excited by the smells and sounds! He settled down after a bit and finished by walking very nicely on his 15-foot lead. He is pretty tuckered out today.


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## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

TinaLina said:


> Raindrops, thank you so much for this recommendations. I will contact them as well. Hopefully my search will turn out to be fruitful
> 
> As for the e-mails I sent, they do vary somewhat depending of the breeder, but the main body remains the same. Here is the sample of my e-mails. Any corrections or suggestions are welcomed with open arms
> 
> ...


the first part is good but you left out why YOU deserve any of their puppies. Just imagine if you were a toy poodle breeder with a huge waitlist and email after email, would you contact someone that just described what you do? Or would you contact someone that sounded stood out and sounded perfect match for your upcoming litter?

When I was searching, I let them know my dog and animal experience, what I was looking for in a puppy temperament wise, I left color off because that’s the least important thing to many breeders, and I spoke about my lifestyle, income and ability to care for the dog, and that I have no plans to ever have children. Which is important to some littles breeders.


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## Newport (Jul 16, 2014)

Include a photo of yourself/family. A picture is worth a thousand words.


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

Gracie is from Joan Markowitz, Light n Lively in Staten Island. I know Joan has a young female she just debuted in conformation, but not sure if she’s breeding right now. Gracie is a great dog, she is an in size mini, 17 lbs,13 7/8 inches at the withers. I’m very happy with her. Wonderful personality, very healthy, and just a love. She’s also shaping up to be a nice agility dog. She has a mismark (white blaze), but that was unusual- her breeder is a show breeder and has produced very nice blacks. Otherwise her coat is a beautiful inky black. My groomer breeds toy poodles and has shown for a long time, she says Gracie “has a coat to die for”.

Gracie’s grandmother is a Songbird poodle, as are several other ancestors. I met a Songbird poodle at an agility trial and she was very nice. You can’t go wrong with that lineage! as far as oversize, there’s no guarantee a dog won’t grow larger than expected but letting the breeder know you’re interested in smaller helps. Females tend to be smaller too.

a few pics of Gracie, just because 😀


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## Booksnoop (Aug 16, 2021)

I have a poodle I got from Joan of Light n Lively in October 2019. He’s now 2 years old. Darwin is a very handsome dog, and extremely intelligent and loves cuddling. However, he is the most challenging dog I have ever owned. He demands to be the center of attention and tries to dominate my other two dogs (both mini schnauzers). He frequently attacks the smaller of my other dogs, who now spends most of the day hiding under the dining room table. He has bitten me numerous times (not seriously, more warning bites) when I made him do things he didn’t want to do, such as coming in the house at night. Darwin has been to an intensive, six week training course, where he spent all day with a trainer once a week and we now attend weekly group classes, where he behaves well around the other dogs in class. However, he continues to exhibit aggressive behavior at home. My sister owns one of his litter mates and has had similar issues with her dog, except he doesn’t bite. The main thing I was looking for in a puppy was a good temperament, so while I will continue to work with our dog trainer and hope Darwin’s behavior continues to improve, I am a bit disappointed in this breeder.


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

Booksnoop said:


> I have a poodle I got from Joan of Light n Lively in October 2019. He’s now 2 years old. Darwin is a very handsome dog, and extremely intelligent and loves cuddling. However, he is the most challenging dog I have ever owned. He demands to be the center of attention and tries to dominate my other two dogs (both mini schnauzers). He frequently attacks the smaller of my other dogs, who now spends most of the day hiding under the dining room table. He has bitten me numerous times (not seriously, more warning bites) when I made him do things he didn’t want to do, such as coming in the house at night. Darwin has been to an intensive, six week training course, where he spent all day with a trainer once a week and we now attend weekly group classes, where he behaves well around the other dogs in class. However, he continues to exhibit aggressive behavior at home. My sister owns one of his litter mates and has had similar issues with her dog, except he doesn’t bite. The main thing I was looking for in a puppy was a good temperament, so while I will continue to work with our dog trainer and hope Darwin’s behavior continues to improve, I am a bit disappointed in this breeder.


I am so sorry to hear that, it sounds very challenging. That hasn’t been my experience at all. We have four dogs, all older than Gracie and she has melded into the pack nicely, and gets along with literally everyone. Absolutely no biting or aggression to humans. We play tug and she has a soft mouth with me. Her temperament is rock solid. Did you let Joan know? I wonder if it‘s a certain stud or dam? Gracie was born in 12/18, mom was Minnie on the go- go and dad was Moon walkin’.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Booksnoop said:


> Darwin has been to an intensive, six week training course, where he spent all day with a trainer once a week and we now attend weekly group classes,


Temperament can't be guaranteed in the way that some health aspects typically can, by doing recommended health testing of the dam and sire.
Speaking of health, have potential health issues been ruled out as a cause? Not every health issue can be tested for. It certainly sounds unusual if two pups from the same litter show similar unwanted behaviors.

I would also ask if you've been working with the breeder from the start on this. She'd certainly want to know.

I'd also ask what the nature of the "intensive, six week training course" consisted of. Were the trainers CPDT? Have you worked with a CBCC-KA behaviorist?


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## Getting ready (May 4, 2019)

I have had two dogs from the same breeder with very different temperaments. Blueberry is way more easy going but not nearly as fast of a learner as Noodle. But I also have two human children from the same breeders with very different temperaments. 

Both of my dogs are healthy so I do feel good about our breeder and will return. I'm hoping for a more easy going temperament even if the focus and fast learning is sacrificed. But who knows.


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

Booksnoop, Rose n Poos has a good point that temperament is so variable, and the mix of personalities in a multi dog household contributes to behvaior.

One of my older dogs, Misty, made it her mission in life when Gracie arrived to correct rude puppy behaviors. We affectionately refer to Misty as the “fun police.” I think Misty felt on some level that she was raising Gracie with me, lol. However they were good lessons for Gracie and she learned to be respectful of other dogs’ space, toys, food, etc.….from someone who spoke her language.

I’m going to say something that I hope you know is only coming from a good place. If he truly is not fitting in your household and you feel the situation will not improve, you may want to think about placing him in a different home while he is still young. A poodle is an easy dog to find a home for, and knowing his personality will help secure a good match. There’s no judgment here, dogs have unique personalities and just like people, some don’t do well together.

I see your avatar is the two schnauzers, do you have a pic of Darwin?


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

Getting ready said:


> also have two human children from the same breeders with very different temperaments.


I love this sentence!


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