# Colour breeding



## Bfarky (May 21, 2017)

Hi All, I wonder if anybody could put me to the right direction. I am a novice breeder and i have a red miniature poodle who has a tiny white patch on her chest. My question is that what coloured puppies am I likely to get if I breed her with a chocolate phantom male who also has some white on his chest? My girl is coming from a red parents also. Many thanks in advance


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## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

poodle with residual white (called abstract) are often (but not always) carriers for piebald, which is the gene that causes parti poodles. Breeding two abstract dogs together will give you a25% chance of parti, 50% chance of abstract, and 25% chance of solid.

unless the red dog carries heterozygous or homozygous alleles for phantom, no puppies will be phantom, but all will carry for it due to the father. It's important to note that phantom markings will not show up on a red based poodle, only on a brown or black based. 

Your red girl is either:
BBee - black-pigmented yellow*
Bbee - black-pigmented yellow (liver carrier) or
bbee - liver-pigmented yellow

* what poodle people call red, the rest of the the dog world calls yellow

and the brown phantom is either: 
bbEE - liver or
bbEe - liver (yellow carrier)

unless you have them DNA tested (or are able to infer from the parents colors), you won't know for sure what colors you could possibly get.



SHORT VERSION: 
until you color test, you won't know for sure, but it is theoretically possible to have a litter of blacks, browns, and reds. they may have phantom markings, and they may be solid, abstract, or parti. Fortunately, color testing takes a fraction of the time required to title and/or prove a dog, get its health testing complete, and evaluate both dogs as adults to ensure that they are a good match for each other. Color is pretty, but it's just the outside. A quality dog is more than just good looking


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## Bfarky (May 21, 2017)

Thank you very much for taking the time for this thorough explanation. I know what you mean with quality as i health test my dog as well. Did not mean to breed just for the colour. But thank to you i now understand how they would turn out colour wise better. Cheers

QUOTE=Coldbrew;2841345]poodle with residual white (called abstract) are often (but not always) carriers for piebald, which is the gene that causes parti poodles. Breeding two abstract dogs together will give you a25% chance of parti, 50% chance of abstract, and 25% chance of solid.

unless the red dog carries heterozygous or homozygous alleles for phantom, no puppies will be phantom, but all will carry for it due to the father. It's important to note that phantom markings will not show up on a red based poodle, only on a brown or black based. 

Your red girl is either:
BBee - black-pigmented yellow*
Bbee - black-pigmented yellow (liver carrier) or
bbee - liver-pigmented yellow

* what poodle people call red, the rest of the the dog world calls yellow

and the brown phantom is either: 
bbEE - liver 
bbEe - liver (yellow carrier) or 
bbee - liver-pigmented yellow

unless you have them DNA tested (or are able to infer from the parents colors), you won't know for sure what colors you could possibly get.



SHORT VERSION: 
until you color test, you won't know for sure, but it is theoretically possible to have a litter of blacks, browns, and reds. they may have phantom markings, and they may be solid, abstract, or parti. Fortunately, color testing takes a fraction of the time required to title and/or prove a dog, get its health testing complete, and evaluate both dogs as adults to ensure that they are a good match for each other. Color is pretty, but it's just the outside. A quality dog is more than just good looking







[/QUOTE]


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

You will likely end up with puppies with brown pigment and possibly light eyes regardless of colour.


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## Bfarky (May 21, 2017)

What if i change the male to a cream parti? Would that mean i would have a 25% chance of getting red partis?

QUOTE=ArreauStandardPoodle;2841369]You will likely end up with puppies with brown pigment and possibly light eyes regardless of colour.[/QUOTE]


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## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

Bfarky said:


> What if i change the male to a cream parti? Would that mean i would have a 25% chance of getting red partis?
> 
> QUOTE=ArreauStandardPoodle;2841369]You will likely end up with puppies with brown pigment and possibly light eyes regardless of colour.


[/QUOTE]


creams are (i believe) red based dogs, so breeding to another red dog should mean all red puppies. breeding a potential piebald carrier to a piebald would result in 50% partis and 50% abstracts.

also, while health testing is important, titling a dog in conformation/performance is equally necessary. there are lots of shelter dogs that would pass health testing, but not all are worthy of reproducing


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