# Breeding Silver-beige with other colours in the line



## cbrand

Silver Beige is a "Brown" color. To get it, both parents have to carry a Brown gene. On top of this, a true Silver Beige comes from Silver in the lines. 

In your example, Silver Beige would only be produced if the White Poodle carried a Brown gene. You would know this right off the bat if the White had liver pigment (genetically bbee). However, the White could still carry a recessive Brown gene if it has Black pigment if it is genetically Bbee. 

Note... we are talking here about true clear colors. There are a whole bunch of heavily grizzled Brown dogs that people call Cafe and Silver Beige ( you see these in pet breedings a lot). These greyed out dogs are not IMO true Silver Beige or Cafe any more than a grizzled out Black is a Blue or Silver.


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## cbrand

I'd love to know the name of the Silver stud who carries Brown. I'm thinking in the future that I'd like to purposely breed a Cafe/Silver Beige litter and I'd like to keep tabs on any possible stud dogs.

I have a Silver dog in mind, but the breeding would give me 3 crosses to Ultra Knight and that makes me a little nervous.


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## zyrcona

I have been doing research on this sort of thing and what I'm currently understanding is that the dilution gene that causes black and brown to fade to blue, café, silver, and silver beige exhibits a sort of partial dominance. In order to be blue, a dog needs to have at least one black gene and one dilution gene. A café dog has at least one black gene, two brown genes (which modify black pigment and cause it to come out brown), and one dilution gene. Silver and silver beige are the same as blue and café respectively, but they have two copies of the dilution gene instead of one. These genetics are separate from the undesirable genes that cause greying, and cause silvers and silver beiges to start to clear in the first two months of life and blues and cafés to start to clear in their second year. There are a variety of ways you could in theory get silver beige. The following assume dogs with two copies of the black gene (if both parents don't have two copies, the breedings could result in cream or apricot puppies, quite likely with undesirable brown points):

a. Silver beige to silver beige breeding -- all silver beige puppies

b. café to café -- mixture of brown, café, and silver beige puppies in 25:50:25% ratio

c. café to silver beige -- café and silver beige puppies in 50:50 ratio

d. two blues who both carry brown: 25% puppies of some sort of brown, with the same ratio in dilution of the café to café mating above. Other puppies will be black, blue, and silver.

e. blue and silver who both carry brown: 25% puppies some sort of brown, same ratio as café to sb etc.

f. blue carrying brown to silver beige -- 50% brown spectrum, 50:50 café silver beige

g. café to silver carrying brown. -- same as f

useful link:

Color Genes in the Poodle (note: seems to incorrectly identify café as silver beige and silver beige as 'champagne')


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## CharismaticMillie

I have been told by brown breeders that cafe breeds true. In other words, cafe to cafe will produce cafe. I am not entirely sure if this is true. Maybe a brown breeder will step in.


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## Toodle

zyrcona said:


> I have been doing research on this sort of thing and what I'm currently understanding is that the dilution gene that causes black and brown to fade to blue, café, silver, and silver beige exhibits a sort of partial dominance. In order to be blue, a dog needs to have at least one black gene and one dilution gene. A café dog has at least one black gene, two brown genes (which modify black pigment and cause it to come out brown), and one dilution gene. Silver and silver beige are the same as blue and café respectively, but they have two copies of the dilution gene instead of one. These genetics are separate from the undesirable genes that cause greying, and cause silvers and silver beiges to start to clear in the first two months of life and blues and cafés to start to clear in their second year. There are a variety of ways you could in theory get silver beige. The following assume dogs with two copies of the black gene (if both parents don't have two copies, the breedings could result in cream or apricot puppies, quite likely with undesirable brown points):
> 
> a. Silver beige to silver beige breeding -- all silver beige puppies
> 
> b. café to café -- mixture of brown, café, and silver beige puppies in 25:50:25% ratio
> 
> c. café to silver beige -- café and silver beige puppies in 50:50 ratio
> 
> d. two blues who both carry brown: 25% puppies of some sort of brown, with the same ratio in dilution of the café to café mating above. Other puppies will be black, blue, and silver.
> 
> e. blue and silver who both carry brown: 25% puppies some sort of brown, same ratio as café to sb etc.
> 
> f. blue carrying brown to silver beige -- 50% brown spectrum, 50:50 café silver beige
> 
> g. café to silver carrying brown. -- same as f
> 
> useful link:
> 
> Color Genes in the Poodle (note: seems to incorrectly identify café as silver beige and silver beige as 'champagne')


Hi Zyrcona & cbrand,
I booked a silver toy, after shaving the face at 7wks.. breeder said likely to to be blue, then called me yesterday and said she thinks it is a black.
His Dam is silver and sire is white. Dam's and sire's pedigree are primarily silver and white with 2 blacks and 3 blues total.
If I am aiming for silver pups, should I still use him? I was reading about colour breeding and it seems that black is bred to red frequently, and red has fading genes. It seems to darken the reds yet not affect the blacks. What do you think will happen if black is bred to silver?


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