# Tail Docking



## Tux

This has probably been discussed at great length prior to my joining. 

Here in the Atlantic Provinces of Canada tail docking is no longer permitted. 
How is that going over in the Standard Poodle show world? I suppose it is a look we will all get used to, but it is not exactly how I expect a poodle to look. Do judges have a hard time with this? Hopefully not. Will these dogs still be shown in the USA and not be penalized?

I know of several breeders, of other breeds, who are taking their puppies over to the USA to have it done. Such a shame .... new little puppies being forced to travel at 2, or 3, days old. My opinion only. Some breeds I just cannot visualize with undocked tails, actually much more so than poodles.

The Portugese Water Spaniel sort of precondtioned me for what an undocked poodle might look like.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

Tux said:


> This has probably been discussed at great length prior to my joining.
> 
> Here in the Atlantic Provinces of Canada tail docking is no longer permitted.
> How is that going over in the Standard Poodle show world? I suppose it is a look we will all get used to, but it is not exactly how I expect a poodle to look. Do judges have a hard time with this? Hopefully not. Will these dogs still be shown in the USA and not be penalized?
> 
> I know of several breeders, of other breeds, who are taking their puppies over to the USA to have it done. Such a shame .... new little puppies being forced to travel at 2, or 3, days old. My opinion only. Some breeds I just cannot visualize with undocked tails, actually much more so than poodles.
> 
> The Portugese Water Spaniel sort of precondtioned me for what an undocked poodle might look like.


Well, it can still be done in the Atlantic Provinces just not by a vet. Most breeders do their own tails and dew claws, because most vets, not being breeders, do no know the correct length to dock and turn a lot of the tails they do into chicken nuggets or bunny tails.

Poos with natural tails are not to be penalized when shown, but they do stand out for being different. Each show we have been to, Quincy has been the only Standard with a natural tail. Some natural tails are a decent length, and some are crazy long. Some are lovely and straight, some are gay, some have a huge curl like a Pug. I have a friend with a red whose tail is so long, that when it curls over her back, the little tip nearly touches the back of her head.

My vision of a Dobe is with cropped ears and a docked tail, and it is going to take me a long while to get used to seeing them au naturel. That is just my opinion.


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## Fluffyspoos

I would personally like to see natural tails more accepted :x I'm pretty sure it's bound to happen.


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## Gorky

@Fluffyspoos Here, here to that!


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## Ruth

I'm all for natural looking dogs and I'd love to see more natural tails too!


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## Tux

*Tails*

I have no strong feelings, either way. However, I am rather pleased both Tux and Raven have docked tails, they look so sharp. I am glad I did not have to make that decision, it was made for me by both their breeders. Cowardly way out, I know. :aetsch:

Many years ago, when I was a child, we had a Great Dane, who had cropped ears. Mark Anthony did look very sharp, however I have gotten used to Danes now having hanging ears. It took awhile.


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## SnorPuddel

I totally love natural tails !

I do understand why many breeders are reluctant to stop docking. Many undocked tails are very gay even Basenji looking, but you do also get some incredible tails too.

In the UK where they stopped docking 5 years ago, the Kennel Club gave poodle breeders an "unofficial" 5 years to get their tails sorted out. You don't know what kind of tail a dog will produce until you see the tails in natural state for a couple generations, so a grace time makes sense. But judges still award curly tailed poodles. A friend of mine was at Crufts and said she could not believe the ugly tails she saw on the British poodles.
Whereas in Australia, they show poodles with natural tails and heavily penalize curly tails. Curly tails are despised by most Australian breeders ...because it completely ruins beautiful poodle balance and their outline.

The same litter may produce the occasional curly tail...but a breeder should never disregard the type of tail a sire or dam produces (regardless of other qualities/pedigree) when making breeding choices. Consistency should always be overarching goal.

Baldr has a natural tail and I love it !! I was very lucky to get a boy from a litter that Ora did not dock or remove the dewclaws on


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## papoodles

I do not like undocked tails at all; to me they destroy the elegant lines and symmetry of a classically beautiful poodle, esp if shown in a anything but a utilitarian cut.
But I would never breathe a word of criticism to the owners of said undocked tailed dogs.


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## farleysd

I too do not like undocked tails. I agree that it changes the balance of the standard poodle. 

However I will not criticize someone who has a poodle with an undocked tail.

As far as showing, if a dog does not have a docked tail I do not believe it should be penalized, but on the other hand,if a dog comes from a country where docking is permitted and shown in another country, then this dog should also be granted the same respect in the ring. It should be a two way street.


Terry
Farleys D Standard
"One must first build their house before they can paint it!"


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## Tux

I agree a dog in the show ring should not be penalized either for being natural or for being docked. Judges are only human, it must be difficult for them to get past their own idea of how a poodle, or any other breed, should look. I have not seen enough undocked poodles to get to like the look yet, but I expect that will change as time goes on. 
It seems strange that only a couple of the eastern provinces have gone that way, should probably be total country, or not at all.


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## Spencer

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> Well, it can still be done in the Atlantic Provinces just not by a vet. Most breeders do their own tails and dew claws, because most vets, not being breeders, do no know the correct length to dock and turn a lot of the tails they do into chicken nuggets or bunny tails.


I own a chicken nugget tail, lol... and while cute, definitely doesn't fit the body. Tate's tail is about 3 inches long, and he is a small teeny-mini/inch-too-tall toy. I can't imagine a poor standard with the hackjob of a tail that is the same length of his!

(As a side note... has anyone ever felt the end of their dog's docked tail? T's is weird!)


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## faerie

i love natural tails and long docks.
one day i'll add a poodle with a natural tail to my poodle arsenal. heh.

temperance's dock is the standard length. not too short.
seelie's is longer (and i love it)
and then poodle 3 when i get my dog farm tee hee, i hope will be natural.


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## Rowan

I prefer poodles with natural tails. They look so elegant with the long, fuzzy pipe cleaner tails. I also prefer Dobies and other breeds with natural ears too!


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## Tux

Spencer, sorry someone did a "hack job" in docking your poodles tail. I wonder if that is why it was banned, people doing it that did not know what they were doing? I wonder if it would have been better to outlaw it being done by anyone other than a vet. Would it not have been better to have breeders assist in advising the proper length? I agree breeders probably have a better idea of what would look best.

I thought Tux's tail was a tad too long when he was smaller, but he seems to have grown into it. Looks right now. The groomers do a great job with the pom pom, they keep it fairly large, he is a large dog. When my brother was here the other day, he remarked on Tux's tail being so much thicker than Raven's. Tux has big legs, big feet, his collar is the same size as Raven's but about three holes farther out. Raven's is in the smallest hole and quite loose. Raven is much finer featured, more like a female should be. 

I feel sorry for Raven when people talk to Tux and say _"And this is your little sister!" _ Poor Rave, he is a boy too.

Both Tux' and Rave's tails just feel like a bone that ends, not strange feeling.


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## Gorky

I love full tails on a poodle because they are so expressive, communicate and dance through the air.


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## Cdnjennga

Aesthetically I tend to prefer the look of a long docked tail. But morally I prefer the idea of an undocked tail. I would like it if docking and cropping eventually went the way of the dodo bird. I cringe whenever I see a puppy with freshly cropped ears especially, it just looks so painful.

My mini poodle is all natural (tails and dews) and I wouldn't have it any other way, even if his tail does curl over his back a little like a pig's.  I love how he expresses himself with it and how it helps him power through the water like an otter. 

If docking eventually was banned or became uncommon, I do think breeders would eventually straighten the tails, because it would become a higher priority. It would take time though, as evidenced by the UK. My mini poodle's mom got her CKC championship in Canada with an undocked tail, so it is possible.


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## Tux

I am happy with Tux's tail now. I am sure we will all get used to the idea of undocked tails with time. 
I have only seen one poodle with an undocked tail. "Cuddles" is a black mini, her tail curls over her back as well when she is excited. Her people walk her past here a lot, when she sees my two the tail flies high like a wagging flag over her back. She too is very cute.


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## Tux

Thanks for all of your thoughts on tails, I will be looking at undocked tails in a different light from now on. Live and learn.


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## Fluffyspoos

I think this standard has one of the most beautiful natural tails

Freshly Groomed - Ready to Get Dirty! | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/urbantreader/4666408926/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/urbantreader/4599252749/in/photostream


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## Tux

*Beautiful tail*

Yes, he certainly does have a gorgeous tail, love it! Reminds me of a Golden Retriever tail. Now, I sure would not have an objection to that tail at all.


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## Gorky

That tail really is beautiful. Fergus is a beautiful dog!


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## JE-UK

Cdnjennga said:


> Aesthetically I tend to prefer the look of a long docked tail. But morally I prefer the idea of an undocked tail. I would like it if docking and cropping eventually went the way of the dodo bird.


That's sort of how I feel ... docking has been illegal in the UK for five years or so, and I'm pretty used to seeing undocked dogs in breeds that were traditionally docked. I don't miss docking and wouldn't countenance it for one of my own dogs, but it is a shift in aesthetic appeal.


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## AgilityIG

I had never thought about tails on Poodles until I got Vinnie. I love natural tails. Vinnie's is a bit gay, but it totally fits his personality :lol:


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## faerie

are you saying vinnie's gay?


JUST KIDDING!


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## AgilityIG

faerie said:


> are you saying vinnie's gay?
> 
> 
> JUST KIDDING!


:rofl: Nope, just a very happy guy!


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## Cdnjennga

AgilityIG said:


> I had never thought about tails on Poodles until I got Vinnie. I love natural tails. Vinnie's is a bit gay, but it totally fits his personality :lol:


My mom was at an agility trial a couple of week-ends ago with Darcy and talking to a miniature poodle breeder. She said "oh we wouldn't even call that a gay tail, that's a squirrel tail." :curl-lip:

Here's little squirrel nutkin (from last summer)


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## AgilityIG

I just love Darcy!!! He reminds me so much of a little Vinnie (another "Squirrel Tail" - I won't tell Vinnie that though!!) :lol:


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