# No more off leash dog park for puppy



## Countryboy

snow0160 said:


> Off leash dog park does not create positive behaviors in puppies.


Absolute nonsense. It's you that creates positive or negative behaviours, not the park. 



snow0160 said:


> Lucky has learned several bad behaviors from other dogs such as rolling in mud, running away when it is time to go, jumping and pulling when he sees other dogs. In fact, no more off leash anything until he gets older. But on top of all of this, it was a really traumatic incident happened at our daily neighborhood romp.


It sounds like you should stick to living rooms with your mutts. We don't demand human etiquette from our dogs at the park. We let them be dogs.

Also, an off-leash park is not a place for a dog on-leash. Nobody who knows anything about dogs would let a free dog interact with one on-leash. It's the FIRST rule of dogs meeting.


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## snow0160

Countryboy said:


> Absolute nonsense. It's you that creates positive or negative behaviours, not the park.
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like you should stick to living rooms with your mutts. We don't demand human etiquette from our dogs at the park. We let them be dogs.
> 
> Also, an off-leash park is not a place for a dog on-leash. Nobody who knows anything about dogs would let a free dog interact with one on-leash. It's the FIRST rule of dogs meeting.


He was off leash because that is a requirement for the romp. It is in the photos! I put him on a leash while searching for the other missing dog.

ETE: Seriously? "It sounds like you should stick to living rooms with your mutts. " That is your takeaway from this? Happy trolling!


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## zooeysmom

Countryboy, IMHO you don't know what you're talking about in your post and you're being extremely rude. 

Dog parks can be great and they can be dangerous. It really depends on the particular mix of people and dogs. I love my group in San Jose, but I've had some bad experiences in Chico. Most people here are really good, but Maizie has gotten played with too rough, and Zooey recently got trampled by a dog who was trying to get away from a huge GSD puppy with terrible play manners. I am very happy to be taking a LONG break and I won't take Zooey back to this park that doesn't separate sizes of dogs. No way, no how. 

As for jogging on leash, I wouldn't do it before 15 months.


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## Sammy the spoo

Wow, that must have been a very intense meet-up, between the little puppy going missing and the biting incident... I'm glad to hear that Lucky was ok. 

I have heard mixed reviews on dog parks, and I have only attempted it 4 times so far. So far so good. I'm not sure if it will be a regular experience, but I wanted to take Sammy a few times so he gets some exposure to it should we want to go later on his life. We go at a godly hour (7am on a weekend) for about 15 minutes, and we leave while things are going well. 

I think you are amazing for taking Lucky for a 2-mile walk each morning. Sammy gets probably 1.2 km on a regular day, split into two walks... Instead, I have switched over to doing more attention work, and I am happy to say that he is not wild. I have been doing a few games off of Javelin's games, and the YouTube video that JudyD had posted. It's been working for us . 

It's a challenge to keep them exercised and growing well, isn't it? It certainly has been for me!



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## lisasgirl

Are you doing mental exercise with Lucky? That's often more effective than physical exercise, particularly in puppies who seem to have an endless supply of energy. You can search for "mental walk" which has come up a couple of times of late - it's basically taking the dog on a walk, but mixing in obedience and impulse control behaviors (stopping and sitting, waiting, staying, heeling while going faster and slower, etc.) rather than just letting the dog wander at will. You can also do treat-finding games, puzzle toys, training sessions, etc. 

I find that impulse control exercises really wear out my dogs. A simple one is to hold a treat in your hand, and every time the dog lunges for it, close your fingers so he can't get the treat. Don't say anything, just cover the treat. Keep going until he stops trying to grab it from you - he should either stand still and wait, or offer some other kind of behavior like a sit. Then you open your hand and say "Take it." Only then is the dog allowed the treat.

EDIT: If you do clicker/marker training, then shaping games are also awesome. Google "1001 Things to Do With A Box" and give that one a try.

If you're already doing a 2 mile walk every day, then it sounds like mental exercise should be your focus for now, not jogging. You shouldn't really jog with a puppy until they're finished growing anyway. I think puppies can even get kind of over-tired if they're doing too much physical work every day without the right balance of breaks, naps, and mental stimulation.

As for the dog park, it's like any other social activity in that the other people and dogs there are going to make or break the experience. If you don't like the crowd at your park, then don't go, or try going at a different time. I find the after work crowd at my park tends to be less-experienced owners and much more hyped-up dogs (many of whom were stuck inside all day and then immediately taken to the park, so of course they're nuts). I absolutely love dog parks and have mostly had awesome experiences at them (though yes, puppies do mimic the older dogs there - Archie never cared about chewing sticks until he saw an older dog doing it and decided to try). But you should really only go if the people and dogs there are, well, your type of people and dogs.


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## snow0160

*Any exercise ideas?*



Sammy the spoo said:


> It's a challenge to keep them exercised and growing well, isn't it? It certainly has been for me!


Thank you. This is very true! He is very bouncy! He would jump my couch in the evenings. We have to keep him separated from the other pets because he enjoys jump attacks. I tell him no and put him in the crate but it makes him more energetic. For now, he runs around with a leash on and is mostly good until the evenings. He spends about 2 hours in the crate daily because my fiance works from home. I think his energy is increasing ...he is about to be 7 months.

Thank you Zooeymom I heard you aren't supposed to jog until he grows older as well. That's why I thought the supervised romp was great. It isn't like the dog park where people just leave their dogs. We play fetch but he gets bored and just lays down. I hate to take away the romp from him because really enjoys playing with other large dogs. Any idea for exercises?


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## snow0160

lisasgirl said:


> Are you doing mental exercise with Lucky? That's often more effective than physical exercise, particularly in puppies who seem to have an endless supply of energy. You can search for "mental walk" which has come up a couple of times of late - it's basically taking the dog on a walk, but mixing in obedience and impulse control behaviors (stopping and sitting, waiting, staying, heeling while going faster and slower, etc.) rather than just letting the dog wander at will. You can also do treat-finding games, puzzle toys, training sessions, etc.
> 
> I find that impulse control exercises really wear out my dogs. A simple one is to hold a treat in your hand, and every time the dog lunges for it, close your fingers so he can't get the treat. Don't say anything, just cover the treat. Keep going until he stops trying to grab it from you - he should either stand still and wait, or offer some other kind of behavior like a sit. Then you open your hand and say "Take it." Only then is the dog allowed the treat.
> 
> EDIT: If you do clicker/marker training, then shaping games are also awesome. Google "1001 Things to Do With A Box" and give that one a try.
> 
> If you're already doing a 2 mile walk every day, then it sounds like mental exercise should be your focus for now, not jogging. You shouldn't really jog with a puppy until they're finished growing anyway. I think puppies can even get kind of over-tired if they're doing too much physical work every day without the right balance of breaks, naps, and mental stimulation.
> 
> As for the dog park, it's like any other social activity in that the other people and dogs there are going to make or break the experience. If you don't like the crowd at your park, then don't go, or try going at a different time. I find the after work crowd at my park tends to be less-experienced owners and much more hyped-up dogs (many of whom were stuck inside all day and then immediately taken to the park, so of course they're nuts). I absolutely love dog parks and have mostly had awesome experiences at them (though yes, puppies do mimic the older dogs there - Archie never cared about chewing sticks until he saw an older dog doing it and decided to try). But you should really only go if the people and dogs there are, well, your type of people and dogs.


Thank you. I was responding to an earlier post and didn't see it until just now. This is very helpful!


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## Countryboy

The problem with coming into a forum and posting all over the place is that you have no history. You couldn't possibly know that I'm the staunchest defender of dog parks in the forum. But...

Dog parks are a place, they don't 'teach' anything, they don't 'do' anything. Don't expect them to... and trash them for coming up short. Anything that happens at a park is YOUR responsibility. Not the dog's, not the park's responsibility... your responsibility.

Come in here and rant about this dramatic thing that happened to you, but it's silly blame 'the park'. Tho I'm sure the park would apologize if it could. 

And off-leash is the rule, people... not on-leash with an excuse.


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## patk

snow what about checking out some of your fellow dog owners and their pets and trying for a play group instead of a dog park free for all? a play group would be moderated - people agree to watch their dogs and intervene if play gets out of hand. if you put together a good group, it might work.


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## snow0160

Dog parks are really great in theory. It really isn't the park but more the irresponsible people in the park who leave their dogs there. I've met a lot of trainers who strongly disagree with dog parks not just for the traumatic experience, but also for the contagious diseases you can't vaccinate against ie giardia. It is up to the individual if they want to expose their dogs to that. Also, I wasn't in the dog park. I was at a neighborhood romp which happened outside the park.


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## snow0160

patk said:


> snow what about checking out some of your fellow dog owners and their pets and trying for a play group instead of a dog park free for all? a play group would be moderated - people agree to watch their dogs and intervene if play gets out of hand. if you put together a good group, it might work.


Unfortunately, I think that was the "good" neighborhood dog group the st. bernard lady was trying to put together. My previous dog loved the dog park and was very obedient...I miss those trips with her. I think I'm gonna just stick to dogs I personally know for a while until he obeys off leash commands. I really do think Lisa's advice about mental training is good because it does wear him out.


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## lisasgirl

People at your local park just drop off their dogs and leave? That's very unusual. Sounds more like a dog daycare to me. At any dog park I've been to, the owner is expected to stay and supervise their dog the entire time (though how much attention any particular owner is giving varies, of course). So not too different from the neighborhood romp that you describe.

I've heard of training schools hosting play groups where they only allow certain dogs and supervise people a bit more, though I'm not sure how common that is.


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## snow0160

*Lake Baldwin Park formerly "Fleet Peeple's Park"*

Most people supervise their dog. Some of the veterans of this park say a lot of people drop off their dog and come back in a few hours. The park is gorgeous! It is 17 acres with a beach, cypress trees, wood hike, boat launch, and dog wash station. It is really fabulous but ruined by the few irresponsible folks. It is less than a mile from my home and people either love it or hate it. It has 139 reviews on yelp and more on google. I personally had always been a huge fan (until recently). Although, I would never take my small dogs there. 

https://www.yelp.com/biz/lake-baldwin-park-winter-park

I've attached some photos of this park.


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## Countryboy

*No more off leash dog park for puppy*



snow0160 said:


> I saw a few weeks ago that someone posted a very traumatic incident about off leash dog park. Lily is correct from "puppy thread", being off leash should be earned. Off leash dog park does not create positive behaviors in puppies.





snow0160 said:


> Dog parks are really great in theory. It really isn't the park but more the irresponsible people in the park who leave their dogs there..........Also, I wasn't in the dog park. I was at a neighborhood romp which happened outside the park.


Perfect! If you agree that it really isn't the park we're on the same side.


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## snow0160

You are correct CB. I do love the dog park but what am I suppose to do about another bad/ traumatic experience at the park? I'm probably gonna wait until Lucky comes when called every time. I usually carry pet corrector but I don't think that would work on a 200 lb St. Bernard or Neopolitan Mastiff? Those guys are supposed to be nice. I usually bring my fiance but I've seen several instances where one dog gets into a fight and multiple dogs jump in to make it worse. I guess this is pack behavior....human equivalent of rubbernecking? The owners are either freaked out when there are 10 aggressive dogs. I've seen several instances where a very fast running dog pissing off Pitbulls who flip them on their bellies. Nothing nearly as bad as the St. Bernard incidence.


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## lily cd re

snow I am not a fan of dog parks for my dogs, but I have specific reasons (not wanting my poodles injured since they work with and for me, picking up bad habits from ill mannered dogs (whose people are there for the lattes and social scene who don't pay attention) and because my males are intact and not welcome at any local dog park). While I know they work for some people and some dogs they aren't for everyone. 

I am also a very strong proponent of thinking (mental) work. I am sure that if you do some brain games with Lucky you will reap many benefits. Including, but not limited to: better connectedness to you and therefore better obedient manners, a great recall because you will become more meaningful and more fun to Lucky than anything else on earth and the ability to return to the dog park later in life if you so choose.

Countryboy, if you find the OP here to be so bothersome, how about skipping her threads entirely? You have been rude to her more than once with no good reason to be so. I rather doubt she will miss your sagacity. And as for your dressing her down here for being new, maybe you should remember that you and I were both new here once too and that we were welcomed and learned the ropes and chose to stay because people were nice to us, not mean spirited.


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## Click-N-Treat

I don't take Noelle or Francis to the dog park because of the risk of dog attack at our local park. Idiots have decided it's fun to bring their future dog fighting ring puppies to the park for "practice." and by practice, I mean taking bets on which dog their little monster would stalk, attack, knock over and make scream. While they laughed and praised their dog. No thanks. Depending on the social mix, and the dogs there, dog parks can be fun or really scary.

Plus, as a future service dog, I want Noelle to view every dog she sees (other than Francis) as someone to ignore, not a potential playmate. Since she's never had an off leash romp with a strange dog, she doesn't see them as a playmate. Quick nose to nose sniff in passing and done.


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## Countryboy

lily cd re said:


> Countryboy, if you find the OP here to be so bothersome, how about skipping her threads entirely? You have been rude to her more than once with no good reason to be so. I rather doubt she will miss your sagacity. And as for your dressing her down here for being new, maybe you should remember that you and I were both new here once too and that we were welcomed and learned the ropes and chose to stay because people were nice to us, not mean spirited.


I can't remember your joining but when I came here I scratched, clawed, and fought my way into this forum. I speak my mind. The two women who were spouting BS and attacking me are now banned... I'm still here.

Why do I not scroll by a title that attacks dog parks? Even you know the answer to that. If, as the poster said eventually, dog parks are not the issue, why would that not be the title? 

Sooo much hypocrisy... so little time.


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## snow0160

I had no intentions of attacking anything. I think everyone can agree that it is the irresponsible people that make dog parks an unpleasant place. For every 10 good experience, the one bad one ruins it. Lets all be nice and agree to disagree.


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## shell

Snow, if you don't feel good about the park, it doesn't make you happy and you don't like the habits that are forming then don't go-you are doing the right thing for your and your pup. The older I'm getting I'm also realizing that I have to stay away from negative people as much as I can in person and on the web. Sometimes it's a matter of ignoring posts, sometimes it's a matter of avoiding the dog park. :dontknow:

I think it might have been lily that also suggested mental work for for Addison when she was a little younger and even more crazy then she is now-and it really helped us a lot.


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## snow0160

shell said:


> The older I'm getting I'm also realizing that I have to stay away from negative people as much as I can in person and on the web. Sometimes it's a matter of ignoring posts, sometimes it's a matter of avoiding the dog park. :dontknow:


You are right! Must learn to ignore.


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## lisasgirl

When I first adopted Archie, he was 10 months old, completely untrained, and full of teenager energy. Something that helped was just incorporating obedience practice into EVERYTHING he did throughout the day. He had to sit before going out the door, do a trick before he got to play with a toy, stop playing tug in the middle and restart when I asked him to, etc. For the first few months, he basically never got anything good without doing something for us first. It was an easy way of incorporating mental work and practicing what he was learning. Anyway, just throwing out the idea that mental exercise doesn't necessarily have to be something you set aside special time and training sessions for - you can build it into your overall lifestyle to help create good habits and structure.

ClickNTreat, that's interesting about not letting Noelle play with strange dogs so she can learn to ignore them! I'm betting Archie's regular dog park habits are part of why he has a hard time being low-key about friendly dogs he meets out in the world - he thinks all of them are new play-buddies.


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## lily cd re

lisasgirl you are absolutely correct on the idea that mental work can be a great part of everyday life. For example if someone follows me into a room where I need to be able to focus on doing something that doesn't involve the dog I put them on a sit or down stay. When I finish what I am doing I take a few extra seconds to have the dog go from down to sit or sit to stand or something along those lines before I tell them they are free. Right now the poodles are on down stays while I look around here for a few minutes and then check on my email.


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## Marcie

Is there another dog park in the area you could take him to instead? Or go at different times when those people aren't there.


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## snow0160

There is one that is usually a ghost town but has an agility course. I've never been there but worth checking out. Thank you for the suggestion


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