# Picking out a puppy, how important is a site visit and other questions



## Lea (Oct 20, 2012)

Buying a puppy safely - the basics

Check out this sticky at the top of the poodle talk section. This could help out some of your questions. Good luck!


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## Saphire (Nov 15, 2013)

Thank you, I had already read the sticky before I posted.

I know all of the breeders are reputable, the question is how to decide among them and find the puppy that is the best fit.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

saphire, i don't have a poodle (yet), but it's my firm belief that a really good breeder will be able to pick a puppy for you based on your requirements and the best will tell you outright if they don't have the right one from the current litter. since you seem to have a pretty well vetted list of breeders, why not talk to them and tell them what you want. if they are good, they should be asking you questions, too, not only to make sure you get the right puppy, but also to make sure you are the right person to get one of their puppies. don't trust a breeder who isn't interested in both.

p.s. my opinion about breeders is based on having obtained a retired female lowchen show dog from an australian breeder who sent me the perfect dog for my household. i believe a really good breeder knows how to do that.


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## Saphire (Nov 15, 2013)

Thank you. Yes both breeders require applications


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

The Volhard can be very accurate, it or variations on it are used by almost all guide and service dog programs to evaluate puppies. Most breeders will combine the Volhard or something similar with their own observations of the puppies while growing up to get a pretty accurate picture of what kind the of basic temperament the puppies have. They will use the application and interview with you as a way to help match up activity levels, temperament and yes sex to get you the puppy that will be the best match. If they are good breeders it really does pay to rely on them to help pick the best match as they are not swayed by the oh he looks lonely or she is really bouncy and friendly... 

While they may encourage you to come see the puppies before pickup so they can get a better feel for you it is not generally required. Due to the risk of cross contamination please don't visit more then one place UNLESS you make arrangements with the breeders first. Let them know what your plans are and ask if that would be acceptable. It is not just Parvo that is a threat to young puppies. At 7 weeks most are just starting to get their shots and their immune systems are still not functioning like a full grown dogs. Puppies are like human babies, while we may get a sniffle or feel icky for a bit when exposed to germs in a new area a baby can get really sick from them. If you have been around dogs that carry different well germs then the one at a second breeders house the puppies may react poorly to them.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I think it is best to let the breeder pick the pup for you. You pick the breeder. I trusted my girls breeder, and agreed to both my girls without ever seeing them , I did not know what color they were ect. If you have the right breeder, you will be fine.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Sounds like you are really doing your homework, and I bet it will pay off in getting a fabulous pup. 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned that I think is extremely important is the energy level of the dogs in the lines that you are buying from. I am probably over-sensitive to this because of a difficult experience with an extremely high-energy spoo. Many years ago, a couple that I am close to purchased a pup from an extremely reputable breeder. The poodle turned out to be so high energy that he just didn't work out in a family that was not able to give him the exercise that he needed. After a few frustrating years, he was rehomed with a man who gives his dogs 2-3 hours of vigorous exercise a day, including off-leash time where they run all over the place, chasing balls, squirrels, groundhogs, whatever, and splashing through a stream that is about a mile from the new owner's home. With this amount of exercise this poodle is fabulous. Without it, he is very difficult. I know of 3 poodles from this breeder, and all 3 owners have had problems managing a dog with very high exercise needs. In contrast, my dogs are calm and they do just fine with far less exercise. So I think that there is a huge variety in the energy levels of standard poodles. None of these energy levels are bad. It is just that you need to find the right match for your lifestyle. Lots of breeders say that they will pick the right puppy for you (that's what the above-mentioned breeder did). But that doesn't help if all of the pups are high energy and you were thinking that 2 half-hour walks a day and an occasional trip to the dog park would be sufficient. 

So how do you pick a breeder that has poodles with the energy levels that fit your lifestyle? I would ask a lot of questions about the temperaments and energy levels of the parent dogs. If you want a relatively calm dog, stay away from agility lines, and look for breeders whose dogs are good therapy dogs. Meeting the dogs helps. However, sometimes it is hard to tell even when you meet a dog. Even a high-energy dog can be calm if he/she has just had a lot of exercise. I think that most breeders will give you honest answers to your questions. Might also be a good idea to ask if you could speak to a couple of people who bought from this breeder previously--from the same dam, if she has had a previous litter.

Of course, there are significant variations from one pup to another in the same litter, and asking the breeder to help you choose a pup from within the litter is a good idea. But I think that some lines have different energy levels than others. And it is a good idea to figure that out before you buy, if you can.

Hope this helps. All the best to you as you make this important decision.


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## Saphire (Nov 15, 2013)

Thank you so much Spindle, Carlys Mom and Pepper for the helpful replies.

Spindle, I would never want to do anything to potentially harm the puppies, I will be very careful. Carly's Mom, I would like the breeder to pick a puppy for me although I do have a strong preference on gender. However, while the breeder came recommended, it is not someone I know personally and I have no experience with this stuff. All of my prior dogs (not too many) were take it or leave it situations, no litters involved. I feel like while a breeder may know their dogs, they have never met me. 

Pepper, you absolutely articulated my fear! That is precisely the dog I DO NOT WANT. We are a family of couch potatoes! I will PM you as we are within driving distance of where you live and potentially could get a dog from the breeder you describe. Someone looking at our family might think that type of dog would be good for us (have 3 boys!) but it would not be. Thank you


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## fuzzymom (Sep 19, 2013)

When you say you're a family of couch potatoes I wonder if you should be getting a poodle at all. What size are you getting and what made you decide on this breed? I know you mentioned having had other dogs, but it sounded like it's going to be your first poodle. 


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I second the couch potato = no poodle. lol. They are a breed that was selected to work...it even transfers down to the toys. They need a job and plenty of outlets for their energy...both physical and mental. (in most cases, as a whole) If you want a dog that is happy to laze around the house a lot, your best bet would be one bred strictly for companionship....a Shih Tzu or King Charles spaniel. There are others, but those come to mind first.

You _should_ care about whether their teeth are crooked or they have lousy conformation. If that's the case, then the breeder isn't top notch and may have let other things go by the wayside too, like temperament, other kinds of health issues etc. So, pick a _reputable_ breeder...get lots of references and if you do go for a Poodle, be prepared to give it the necessary exercise and mental outlets. When you hear from other show people and former buyers from a breeder who know his dogs well, they'll let you know that the breeder has great temperaments, good, healthy dogs with lovely, correct conformation. 

Describe what you're looking for, what your life style is, what you plan to do with the dog, how much exercise you like to do with a dog.... and let the breeder pick the right puppy match for you. An experienced and good breeder knows his/her dogs best. There's no need to travel twice, imo.


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## NYNIC715 (Oct 15, 2012)

I have owned 3 spoos so far... My first two I went and picked them out from the litter and both turned out to be wonderful dogs (luckily!) With my current white spoo, Polo, I did things much differently... I had a list of highly reputable breeders, such as how you said you did as well. I reached out to them via email first to see if they did have all the testings/certifications completed on their bitch and sire and is the paperwork readily available to be reviewed if I wanted to see it. All said that they did - next it was the typical "phone interview" while yes they were interviewing me - I also was interviewing them... After that I found 2 breeders that I actually felt comfortable with... a good reputation / recommendation, I learned, doesn't always cut it... My spoo was about 4 1/2 hours from where I live.. Did I go to visit - no. Should I have - maybe - but no good breeder will let anyone in to see the pups until after the first vaccine had been administered and at that point its almost time to bring home the pup.... Visiting mom and dad should be done prior to pregnancy so you can see their true personality... Getting back to which pooch I picked... I have a list of requirements for my breeder - White Male Spoo - that was non negotiable. The other items I had were PERSONALITY, larger size, calm - etc. Personality was the biggest priority as I want to train him to get a CGC and evantually be a certified therapy dog... Did I have to wait yes - did I let the breeder pick out the pup - yes as with my breeder that is the way you get the dog (which I noticed in researching seems to be the norm from good breeders). She picks based on your requirements what will suit you best - doesnt mean that the litter on the ground is going to have what you want - thats if it isnt already sold... When I got to my breeders house - she let out all the males for me to see - then asked which one would I pick, if I could... I told her which one. She then smirked and said that is the one you are slated for and showed me the list - whatever color collar he had on had my name next to it... Maybe my "pick" was lucky - but she hit the nail on the head with this boy... He is everything I wanted in a pooch plus more... I couldn't be more satisfied

Bottom line is this - let your breeder choose the dog for you. All puppies are cute - but when they mature and are the exact opposite of what you thought you were getting - you will be dissapointed. Your breeder knows this pups from gestation through the time they go to their new homes - they know the pups the best.... I NEVER thought I would sign up for that program or the idea of using a crate - but damn I was fooled on both accounts... Now I 10000% pro breeders choice & pro crates... 

Lastly - with the drive being as far as it is... drive up there - get a hotel - a good nights sleep and pick up the pup the next morning & head home. Remember your ride home will be longer (pee breaks for pup) and if they barf the entire way home - you gotta pull over to clean up...


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

You should look at breeders that also send dogs off as Service Dogs. I know a few people with Poodles that are Service Dogs & are very different then their show dog, hunting, fly ball Poodles. You might want to look into Poodle Rescue it a regime. An older Poodle out of Puppy stage might be a good fit. I think Sookster on here is a
"Puppy Raiser" for Poodles & she might know of the breeders the dogs she trained are from. I know she trains a group of Spoke in Georgia. I have a Rescue Spoo & HD is awesome but he is high energy. Luckily WD have 6 other dogs to play with, neighbor dogs, & a fenced 1/2 acre to work out his energy needs, HD doesn't do balls or swim, so the other activities keep him worn down. I now have Toy Poodles for their activity level, health, & size suits our family better.


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## Saphire (Nov 15, 2013)

Thanks for the replies.

I would love to NOT go to visit before. My first reaction was that I did not need to and then I wondered if I did. While I do not want to list them, the breeders have spotless reputations. I am not worried that the dog will be a hunch back or anything. I was simply making the point that he has some type of mismark, I am ok with it because this dog will never be bred.

We need a dog that is as hypoallergenic as possible, I know that may not be a reality. And no it is not for anyone that lives with us but for a member of our extended family, who understands that we are getting a dog, will try to adapt but if she cannot, she cannot. Plus my kids bring home friends and if I can make it work with allergies great. A spaniel will not work. I also prefer a large, highly intelligent and trainable dog. My husband is not a fan of sheperds, goldens shed too much and are not hypoallergenic, PWD are too much excitement as are wheatens and doodles may or may not be hypoallergenic.

As for couch potatoes, we are very mellow. As Pepper described, a 30 minute walk 2 x per day with shorter trips in between sounds about our speed. That is a huge difference from a daily hike lasting 2 hours. Does not mean we will be letting the dog spend its life using wee wee pads. Calm is VERY important to us and with lots of kids I would think someone would think we would be ok with a hyper dog and I am not. Plus I have read other threads where people describe their poodle as energetic outside, yet content inside, that is what I would like.

I spend 1.5 hours at the gym 4x per week (can always walk outside instead if the kids are not around). I have 3 boys and girls who will run the dog (in between playing video games of course!) and are all on soccer, lacrosse and hockey teams. We have enough people that there will always be someone to play with. Someone is almost always home, usually me

Thanks for the tip about seeing if a dog is certified in therapy as a sign its personality is calm 

We would have loved a rescue or older puppy, however there is never one available or if available, will not give to a house with a child under 10 or whatever or in some cases without 3 years tax returns (dont get me started on my friends recent cat adoption story). I put myself on the list at a local animal shelter that gets purebreeds in June and never heard from them. The service dog schools have waiting lists for rejects so long that they closed them


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## Saphire (Nov 15, 2013)

My son has a friend whose family raises labs for a seeing eye school. She says they usually breed their own including poodles and there is no way to get one unless you raise the puppy and it is rejected


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

Who choose your puppy for you is up to you, you may want to let the breeder choose for you or you choose for yourself. I choose on my own. I end up with a sweet goofy energize ball of fun, Edison.

I didn't meet Edison's mom and dad either. It really doesn't matter to me. What matters is your feeling toward the pup of your choice. Try not to over think it (I did it too trust me but wish I didn't).


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

Saphire,

I think your lifestyle sounds like mine, without the children. I am very active, used to go to the gym every day. But since Charlie walks well on leash (after hours of training), I quit the gym and walk him daily (am and pm). He used to pee on wee wee pad, now he prefers to do his business outside. I still lay a wee wee pad indoor just in case.

Edison is mostly indoor, except Friday in daycare and weekends. 

In addition to walking, daycare and dog park on weekends, I play fetch with them in out spacious apartment. We shrink our couch and dining table specially to open up room for playing fetch. I threw the ball for Charlie and Edison to catch. We do this for hours with intermission here and there.

My toys are hyper but they are couch potato also. They would sit with me for hours watching tv series or while I'm doing webinar and such.


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## Saphire (Nov 15, 2013)

Thanks. I am an over thinker by nature, cannot help it!


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

My girls are very calm in the house. I often say, " Cat Like". But outside they run , jump and zoom around. I do walk them everyday for over a hour. I got both my girls as adults. I tried the rescues, but they did not have anything for me at the time. I started emailing all the good breeders within a days drive from me. I told them what I wanted and what kind of home I could offer. I did not hear back from most of them, a few offered to sell me a puppy, but I did get two replies and got my first spoo within 2 weeks. She was a retired breeding bitch and the best gift I ever gave myself. However, she was almost 7 years old... but because of the great home I did have for her and the relationship that formed with her breeder, she gave me my 2nd spoo the following year for free. She was a untrained, return, 2 years old and a handful. That was a year ago and today, I have 2 trained, wonderful dogs. You might want to try that and get an older dog. I think that would be your best fit.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Well, I just have to disagree with everyone who questions whether a poodle is a good fit and/or questions whether a puppy is a good fit. I think Saphire sounds like she'd provide a fabulous home for a poodle puppy. She should just try to find one that is from lines that are not at the top end of the poodle energy scale. And that's what she is trying to do. One of the most important things IMO is that Saphire says that she is home most of the time. Poodles love to be with their people. And living in a household with 3 children would be great for a poodle pup. It sounds like Saphire has the time and commitment to do the work that it takes to raise a puppy. I think there is some lucky puppy out there that is going to have a fabulous home!


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## fuzzymom (Sep 19, 2013)

peppersb said:


> Well, I just have to disagree with everyone who questions whether a poodle is a good fit and/or questions whether a puppy is a good fit. I think Saphire sounds like she'd provide a fabulous home for a poodle puppy. She should just try to find one that is from lines that are not at the top end of the poodle energy scale. And that's what she is trying to do. One of the most important things IMO is that Saphire says that she is home most of the time. Poodles love to be with their people. And living in a household with 3 children would be great for a poodle pup. It sounds like Saphire has the time and commitment to do the work that it takes to raise a puppy. I think there is some lucky puppy out there that is going to have a fabulous home!


I don't think anyone's saying she wouldn't provide a good home, but if you are a family of "couch potatoes" and are very worried about a high energy dog, there are other breeds that may be a better fit. 


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

As a breeder who chooses everyone's pups for them, I think that is the way to go. I ask everyone to email me info about their family dynamic- Ages and genders of all the people, other pets, plans for the future of the pup (do you work, will you hire a dog walker if you do, will the pup be doing therapy or obedience or will it be strictly a companion dog) and we have been 100% successful in placing the right pup with the right family.

I would hope that nobody entering my home to visit pups will have been elsewhere with dogs or puppie sprior to arriving. And I would hope their clothes would be completely laundered if they haave been elsewhere a day or two before. We make everyone remove shoes and socks outside and give them fresh socks from here before they go near the puppy room. We also mist them with Lysol and everyone Purells from their elbows to fingertips with me watching.


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## poodlecrazy51 (Dec 31, 2012)

I deleted my post. it was too long.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

poodlecrazy51 said:


> I deleted my post. it was too long.


Is there some law about long posts? If so, then I better go on the lam...I'm in real trouble. I wish you hadn't deleted your post. Put that right back! LOL.


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## Saphire (Nov 15, 2013)

Thank you Carley's Mom. I would have loved an adult and we have been casually looking for almost a year. So we have decided against that mostly because when we had been looking we could not find one.

Thank you so much Pepper for your support! I think poodles are the right breed.

Fuzzy, if you can think of a mostly hypoallergenic (yes I know a saliva allergy is still possible), non shedding, intelligent, easily trainable, larger breed (I would consider anything from the size of a large mini on up to a typical standard!) I would certainly consider it. In all honesty, we are very flexible on breeds, it is the intelligence and the hypo that I am not flexible on. 

We already considered and rejected a bunch of breeds because they are either not as bright or way more hyper than a poodle, such as Wheatens. And yes I know there are huge variations. Our neighbor has a hyper Wheeaten, his sister in law has a nice calm one, same breeder

Arreau, I completely understand. Since I have never been to a breeder before I had no idea if what I was reading on the internet was correct or not. My other dogs were take it or leave it situations. Thank you for confirming that we do need to be careful. We do not have a pet now so at least that is not a concern

Saphire


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> As a breeder who chooses everyone's pups for them, I think that is the way to go. I ask everyone to email me info about their family dynamic- Ages and genders of all the people, other pets, plans for the future of the pup (do you work, will you hire a dog walker if you do, will the pup be doing therapy or obedience or will it be strictly a companion dog) and we have been 100% successful in placing the right pup with the right family.
> 
> I would hope that nobody entering my home to visit pups will have been elsewhere with dogs or puppie sprior to arriving. And I would hope their clothes would be completely laundered if they haave been elsewhere a day or two before. We make everyone remove shoes and socks outside and give them fresh socks from here before they go near the puppy room. We also mist them with Lysol and everyone Purells from their elbows to fingertips with me watching.


Well, I just think that you are the best kind of breeder, and I feel very blessed that I have a toy poodle breeder like you whom I can absolutely trust to match me with my ideal puppy, but I would like to point out to the OP that in the past, I did work with a reputable show breeder who was the nicest woman ever, our first phone conversation must have ben two hours long, and yet the puppy turned out to be quite the opposite of what I was looking for. In retrospect I guess I feel that the breeder really liked me for an owner, knew that this was a puppy who really needed an experienced home, and so her answers to me were kind of "glass half full, rather then glass half empty" - SO, I would just like to emphasize that if the OP is going to do this long distance with a breeder that she does not know, it would be very important to speak with as many customers of the breeders as possible and to question them extensively about how good a match maker the breeder was for them - not necessarily about what their particular puppy is like, but ask them what qualities in a dog they told the breeder that they needed, and how well the puppy matched what they were looking for.
With my current breeder, so far I have gotten two puppies sight unseen (not even a photo), and yet it felt like I had known them their entire lives - which is why I won't even consider looking at other breeders and will continue patiently waiting for her to make my ideal match for the third time, because her accuracy and integrity is what it takes to do it long distance - but I admit that I just got really lucky in finding her - it could/should take some work to replicate my experience!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

And I second what PeppersB said. I LOVE getting my pups in homes with kids! (As much for the kids as the dogs) My first Poodle arrived when I was nearly seven, and I had the priviledge of growing up with dogs my entire life. They were my best friends. When I reached the age when "mean girls" tried to ruin my day, I KNEW what I had to look forward to when I got home and could honestly walk away from that drama because I had a house full of dogs who thought the sun shone out of my bum! Kids and dogs are the world's BEST combination!


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## fuzzymom (Sep 19, 2013)

Deleted lol!


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> And I second what PeppersB said. I LOVE getting my pups in homes with kids! (As much for the kids as the dogs) My first Poodle arrived when I was nearly seven, and I had the priviledge of growing up with dogs my entire life. They were my best friends. When I reached the age when "mean girls" tried to ruin my day, I KNEW what I had to look forward to when I got home and could honestly walk away from that drama because I had a house full of dogs who thought the sun shone out of my bum! Kids and dogs are the world's BEST combination!


Aha! Here I thought I survived mean girls situation due to my strong character. That was my dogs for me too. I always have two dogs growing up. One big and one small. 

Now, I have Charlie (big) and Edison (small) and God bless them for being the sun in my life. My only hope is that I am also making them happy.


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## Lou Allin (May 2, 2010)

*Teeth and Retinal Atrophy*

You should care about the teeth because underbite is somewhat common and can cause eating problems. The breeder may tell you that the second set will grow in fine, but that's not always true. Some vets will pull the upper and lower front part to allow for more room, and that's $500. Our breeder gave us all our money back at that point and we kept the dog. She didn't want the bad publicity.

Retinal atrophy occurs in poodles and can show up at age five or so, eventually causing blindness, for which there is no cure. There is a genetic test for it now, but there wasn't when we bought ours 12 years ago. Make no mistake. We adore her, and she gets along fine, but I miss her being able to run and play wildly when she could see. For a look at her as a pup, see her book BUSH POODLES ARE MURDER.

Good luck! Poodles are fantastic and much smarter than our border collies.


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## HOTW (Aug 31, 2010)

When my boy's breeder said the pups were ready to go I went down to see them(only two) and I picked the one I wanted(puppy back agreement) she really thought I would go for the flashier one but I prefer more bone and I much preferred Joker's temperament. He was a thinker even at 9 weeks. With Dolly I looked for breeder who did all the testing I wanted and then I watched videos she had of the litter and narrowed it donw to two. I asked her for the measurements of the 2 bitches and picked Dolly based on those. She attached herself to Hubby on the long ride home(he has never had anyo f our dogs since marriage "fall in love " with him and he is thrilled ot have his own dog(I however would be more thrilled if he worked with her a little more!) I find her inquisitiveness an excellent foil for Joker and her nose is nothing I have ever encountered before! She has an incredible ability to track just by air scent! However th eone day DH threw her toy oin top of the roll top desk and she jumped up onto about a 1.5 sq foot spot to grab it off the top of the desk was the day DH almost had a heart attack because he knew I was close to killing him!:argue:


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