# flat top knot? what to do



## CharismaticMillie

You want to take two very small sections of hair (one above each eye) and tie them into bands. You can get little bands from your groomer or at The Color Coordinated Canine (I think Laineeltd.com). I'm not at my computer right now, or I'd post a pic of Tiger with devil horns.

Also...NO collars. Only when you are going for a walk ad you must only use a sliplead or a protective satin collar like those from Poodleit.com . YES neck hair is THAT important when growing coat for AKC showing. I don't know about UKC.


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## outwest

Thanks for the tips! I will search around the forum for pictures. Maybe when you get a chance you could post the picture? I will order some of the bands. 

I was afraid you weren't supposed to have a collar on them. I would just hate for her to get lost and not have a tag on. She is chipped, but I don't trust that someone will bother checking a chip. She hasn't gotten out of the house yet, but anything is possible including the gardener leaving the gate ajar. I will look into the silk thing on the collar, too. It seems so difficult to take care of the hair properly.


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## CharismaticMillie

It is very difficult to take care of the hair. But the no collar at all times rule is incredibly important. Tiger is au-naturale 100% of the time, unless we are going for a leashed walk, and he is in his satin protective collar during the walk, or his sliplead.

Here are the photos of the devil horns. Be sure that they are not pulling.


Also, as soon as you can, you want to start banding the bottom of the ear hair. BUT be SURE to not get the ear leather skin. Make sure you can slide a comb in between the band and the tip of the ear leather.

In the last two photos, you can see that I have the bottom of his ear hair banded. His TK hair has also finally gotten long enough to fit in one band. He is 7 months old - so this is probably when you will find that you can do this too.


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## outwest

Oh, terrific! Thank you for the great pics. Bonnie's ear hair is already starting to get in her food- yuck. That's why you band it, I guess. It is getting so pretty and long now. 

Tiger is gorgeous. I wish you great luck in the AKC shows! I may be able to handle the UKC haircuts, but I get shivers just thinking about the AKC cuts. LOL. Just keeping my dog clean is a major ordeal. Luckily, a cream doesn't have much place in the AKC, so I don't have a reason to sweat about a full continental.  

When does he start showing? I was thinking I might try Bonnie at about 8 months old. I am happy how she is turning out so far. I have to practice getting her to hold still to be examined and how to trot straight ahead without stopping to sniff everything. Lots of work to do here...


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## CharismaticMillie

He's probably going to go out in July or August, so 8 or 9 months. 

Are there any handling classes where you can take her to get some practice? I took Tiger to one class and I learned SO much. I can hardly stack him properly, but I got lots of practice in class and I am getting better!


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## outwest

Hmm...I haven't even looked for those classes. I am starting puppy classes in a week and was hoping the trainer there could help me, but maybe I am being overly hopeful. I have a feeling it will be only people who are trying to get their dogs to stop jumping on them and stuff, but I will see. 

I will go check and see if the UKC has anything near me.


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## CharismaticMillie

outwest said:


> Hmm...I haven't even looked for those classes. I am starting puppy classes in a week and was hoping the trainer there could help me, but maybe I am being overly hopeful. I have a feeling it will be only people who are trying to get their dogs to stop jumping on them and stuff, but I will see.
> 
> I will go check and see if the UKC has anything near me.


I found mine just by asking around. They aren't offered by AKC or UKC or anything - it's just a big facility that has agility, obedience, conformation handling, all kinds of stuff. 

Also, if you are serious about showing, you might want to hold off on teaching Bonnie "sit"....if it's not already too late.


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## outwest

She sits when i tell her to sit, but not when we are walking. I think I am okay there. She is a little unruly right now, but trainable. I have to start doing it. I have been working on confidence building trying to take her a lot of places. That has been going pretty well. She still holds her tail down in new situations, but holds it up in places she has gone before.


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## tintlet

The nice thing about UKC is that you CAN show with a scissored topknot..even a puppy!! The "clips" rule are vague at best. And there are no DQ's for being in the wrong clip 

We see dogs shaved down to 1/2 inch all over, up to dogs that are fluffy with no trimming. 
If you are going to show in AKC, then the top needs to be tired up and grow LOTS of neck coat ( no collar on the dog ) With UKC I do leave the back of the neck a little bit longer. And the dogs can wear a collar as you aren't trying to grow BIG hair.

Just go have fun!!!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

Just a little pointer...when getting your baby to sit, don't use food to entice him to do it. Right after we started showing Quincy, we began working on basic commands like sit, down, shake a paw, always using treats to do it. Well...he was in the ring doing his down and back and Chrystal, his handler showed him the bait to get him to perk up and stack when he stopped, and he sat. So, after s long talk we decided no rewarding of food. Sometimes doing obedience and getting a pup ready for the conformation ring at the same time can be pretty confusing. We are going to work on obedience after Quincy is a champion.


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## outwest

That's so funny Arreau! UKC doesn't allow bait, so I think we're okay there, too. The only thing I have used bait for was the Come command and it works terrifically. She was all the way on the other side of the dog park and I called her. She came tearing across the park at full speed right through a bunch of other dogs, just to get a little gingerman cracker. LOL.


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## Tulip

I just wanted to ask, why do you band the top knot? I can understand banding the ears to stop them getting mucky. Do you band anywhere else?

I fully agree about not teaching sit! I taught my Schnauzer bitch to stack in the ring and now she barely sits because she was never taught it...bit embarassing in the park when the other dog owners want her to sit for a treat and she's free-stacking for them like 'What is your PROBLEM, I'm doing what I usually do for a treat!'. I also really agree about the ringcraft classes, these were invaluble for me and really taught me how to show my bitch off best in the ring and basic ettiquette I had no idea about, such as what to wear against your dog and how to stack on uneven ground, etc. All silly little things that make a big difference!

One more; totally agree about the collar! I never had a collar on my bitch until she was done showing, and I already see the hair denting like on my pet boy. Before it was a nice smooth top line of her wire coat (she's a Schnauzer, not a Poodle!) and now it's dented!


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## CharismaticMillie

Tulip said:


> I just wanted to ask, why do you band the top knot? I can understand banding the ears to stop them getting mucky. Do you band anywhere else?
> 
> I fully agree about not teaching sit! I taught my Schnauzer bitch to stack in the ring and now she barely sits because she was never taught it...bit embarassing in the park when the other dog owners want her to sit for a treat and she's free-stacking for them like 'What is your PROBLEM, I'm doing what I usually do for a treat!'. I also really agree about the ringcraft classes, these were invaluble for me and really taught me how to show my bitch off best in the ring and basic ettiquette I had no idea about, such as what to wear against your dog and how to stack on uneven ground, etc. All silly little things that make a big difference!
> 
> One more; totally agree about the collar! I never had a collar on my bitch until she was done showing, and I already see the hair denting like on my pet boy. Before it was a nice smooth top line of her wire coat (she's a Schnauzer, not a Poodle!) and now it's dented!


You band the topknot to protect the coat from breakage. Eventually you band all the way down the neck, too, to protect that hair.


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## Tulip

Ahh, I see. That makes sense - I have to condition my Schnauzer's coats to prevent breakage and lather them in baby oil when a puppy comes to play, amazing how much a puppy can pull out of a beard in one session!


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