# Help, please!



## Pinky (Jul 21, 2010)

I bought my first puppy EVER and will be receiving her on Tuesday, hopefully. This is my first pet ever so I'm reading tons about them bc I want my puppy to be happy and healthy. I have a lot of questions being a first time parent ha so I'm hoping you guys are able to assist me. 

I live in a fairly small apartment. My bedroom is pretty big, but the bathroom isn't too spacious. I want to train my puppy to use a litter box bc I'm trying to hide her so I don't have to pay extra for rent ha. In the case that I'm caught I am prepared to pay the extra $200, but if there's any way to avoid it I will which I plan on doing by making my puppy go to the bathroom indoors and I'll take her to my friend's neighborhood for walks bc I don't really want her walking around my apartment complex anyway. What I'm confused on is crate training. I play on keeping my puppy in her crate when she's sleeping and whenever I'm not home to watch her. I've read that this is an effective way to housebreak them, but I'm getting confused as to HOW. The way I understood it was that they are to not go to the bathroom in their crate..but then it says to have a pee pad or something in there with them for the pups to use the bathroom. Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? As I said my bathroom isn't too big, will that be a problem with her using the litter box?

Also, with food I read that they can either always have food available or I could put her on a food schedule. I was leaning towards the latter because it also stated that when you have scheduled feedings you can better housetrain them as their bathroom use is more predictable. But everything I've read after that stresses the importance of always having food available for the puppy. I don't know which one to do! Also, I asked the breeder company what type of food she is eating right now and she's on Pro Pac and they suggested I keep her on that at least until she's an adult...is this good dog food? I will do my own research, of course, but wanted to see if anyone has used that food and whether it was good for your puppies or not. She also said I should give her Nutri Cal for the first two weeks. Not really sure what the purpose of that is..I read if their blood sugar gets low they can get comatose and that freaked me out! I don't know what I would do in that case. Has anyone ever had that happen? Should I keep food available for her always to avoid that? I'm concerned about her overeating. 

I have to pick her up from the airport. She's 8 weeks so she's just a baby..should I not take her out of her crate while at the airport since she doesn't have all of her shots? Has anyone ever had a puppy arrive to them via airplane? I'm really concerned that she's going to be super scared. I wish she didn't have to be sent that way, but I couldn't find any toy poodles in AZ 

Sorry for all of the questions. I am feeling overwhelmed and I want to ensure I'm a good mommy to her.  Forgive my pet ignorance. I probably should have educated myself more before I bought her, but at least I'm doing it before her arrival.


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

Congratulations on getting your new puppy, and welcome! This forum is a wonderful place to learn. I am "poodle-less" right now, so I will let others with more expertise handle your questions! Best of luck to you!


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## Pinky (Jul 21, 2010)

Thanks  Oh, and she's a toy poodle. I forgot to mention that. I am naming her Charlie


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## Littleknitwit (Jul 19, 2010)

Hi...what about one of those pet park things...kind of like a "litter box" box for dogs...they are a little grass thing... 

Like this one, for example..

https://www.pottypatch.com/

I don't think that is a good dog food... I was looking at some ingredients and the second ingredient is corn...not good. I'd transition her onto something better... 

It is quite common to ship animals... Does seem scary for them, but I am sure she'll be fine! You might have to take her out because she might be a little dirty... may pee or poop... Not sure how long she'll fly... Plus I am sure a little snuggle would do her good... Just don't put her down anywhere...Bring a blanket if you have to put her on a counter or something...Maybe wipe it down with some wipes... Or just wait to get to your car?

HOW exciting... I get my puppy in about a week! What are you naming her?


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

1. Crate training...the reason why it is generally effective for potty training is because most dogs do not like to go to the washroom in the same area they sleep. Most pups will cry, bark, whine if they need to go to the washroom but are in their crate. Also, because they are in the crate, they cannot go somewhere in the house. DO NOT put a pad or anything in the crate until the pup is potty trained. 

2. Food...schedule feeding is best in my opinion. You know how much they eat, when they ate it, and when to expect a need to potty. Also, with toy poodles, the margin between being a healthy weight and overweight is VERY small, and without controlled proportions, the dog can easily become fat.

3. Airport...leave the pup in the crate until you can access a safe grassy area. The pup will likely need to potty, unless they went in the crate already. Avoid areas that are frequented by dogs. Some pups are very scared by the experience, others come out of the crate as though they've been with you forever. The good thing is that scared or not, puppies tend to be very resilient and she should get over it in a few days time, at most.

4. I would not try to hide the dog.


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

I wanted to mention, there is a thread about parvo going on here. I would wait until you get to a safe, grassy area, like Locket mentioned. I think puppies will chew a pee pad if you put in it the crate; I would leave it bare. Potty park sounds like a good idea.


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## CelticKitti (Jul 1, 2010)

Kodi was shipped, we had just had a major ice storm, so I also had to wait a few extra days for him. I only live about 10 miles from the airport so I didn't let him potty until we got home. He didn't have all of his puppy shots when I got him so I didn't want him down around the airport.

My dad drove me to the airport so I could sit in the back seat with him. (He took the day off and everything! My dad LOVES Kodi, and has spoiled him from day 1) I took a bunch of towles, and paper towles, baby wipes and a bottle of water just in case he was messy when we picked him up. When we got into the car I put a towel on my lap and I opened his crate door(I couldn't wait). He was a little shy at first. But after a few moments he crawled out onto my lap. Luckily he wasn't very messy. 

When we got home we walked around a good bit before he pottied. But when he got inside he opened up right away and started playing.


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## Margotsmom (Jun 6, 2010)

I am very surprised someone would ship a puppy to AZ this time of year. I thought the airlines would not do it due to the heat.


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

I think I can share my experience regarding the litter box. Nickel, my 20 wks old mini poodle, is using the Purina dog litter box and litter with no problem. He took onto it within 5 days he came home (he flew in when he was 9 wks old). There were a few times that he peed right before he could reach in the box but that was when he was very young. Now he has no problem doing his businesses in there. The litter is made of recycled paper and it really absorbs odor well. We tried the Petco dog litter and it's terrible. We put the litter box on our balcony and Nickel is now bell-trained - so every time he needs to use the litter box he would ring the bell hung on the balcony door. Oh, I crate-trained him too. So he stays in the crate at night and whenever we are not home. For the first 10 days, I carried him to the litter box straight from the crate. After that he could pretty much walk to the balcony by himself without any accident. He tried to eat the litter sometimes but since it's paper, it's okay. Once he realized it's nothing as tasty as his after-business treat, he gave up on that habit.

Regarding picking up your new puppy at the airport, I would not take him out of the crate. Your new puppy may not be leash-trained and he would be very scared after the flight so it can be dangerous letting him out of his crate (he may try to run away while you are putting a collar + leash on him, etc). And like CK said, your new puppy probably hasn't got all his shots so I don't think letting him use the potty area at the airport is a good idea. He would probably have relieved himself in the crate anyway. Why not just drive him back to your place, give him a bath and clean up the crate? At least that's what I did when Nickel flew in.

And I agree w/ Locket, try not to hide your dog. He needs to go out and walk and run even if he's using the litter box indoor. I don't think you can hide him for too long.

Good luck with your new pup. Looking forward to seeing the pictures of your new family member


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

B/c hypoglycemia is such a risk, very few reputable breeders will sell any toy breed puppy before 12 weeks of age. I hope you've really checked out this breeder.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I agree about not hiding the pup - not good for either of you, or your neighbours. I have two toy dogs - whether you leave food down, or feed on schedule will depend on whether you need to leave your pup. I would not leave a toy puppy without food for more than a few hours during the day (you don't say how old she is, or what the breeder recommends as a feeding schedule, but I would expect her to be on 3 or 4 meals a day). I would never leave one without water, especially if feeding a dry kibble. I know it is sometimes recommended that you remove the water bowl at 7pm while housetraining, but for a young puppy, of a small breed, I would prefer to risk a few puddles than potential damage from dehydration. 

Food - if you decide to change from the breeder's recommendation, change her over slowly. An upset tummy will be unpleasant for both of you!

Are you getting a bit muddled between a crate and a puppy pen? A crate should be just big enough to make a safe, cozy den for your puppy. A pen gives her space to run around, play, and use her litter tray. Small pups have small bladder capacities - she may need to pee more often than a bogger pup, and may take longer before she can fully control her bladder too.

Don't risk putting her down anywhere other dogs may have been until she is fully vaccinated, and I agree schnauzerpoodle - don't take her out of her crate at the airport if you can possibly avoid it (how long is your drive home from there?). Far better that she meets you for the first time in the calm comfort of your home, rather than the scarey chaos of the airport.

Finally, invest in a big bottle of Simple Solution pet stain and odour remover - no matter how careful you are, you will need it, especially with rented carpets, rugs, etc! And start looking for a really good, reward based puppy socialisation class - not one that lets the pups run loose in a free for all, but one that teaches them to feel safe around other dogs and people (in the UK the classes run by APDT trainers are excellent). Not only will this be good fun for both of you, and set your puppy on her way to being a civilised adult, but it gives you access to all the expertise and experience of the trainers - I have found them very, very helpful with advice and support.

Lots of good advice here - look particularly at the free downloads "Before you get your puppy" and the other puppy raising articles in Training Textbook - http://www.dogstardaily.com/


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## kimstm (Jun 24, 2010)

I wanted to say congrats on your new puppy. 

I also wanted to mention, as a previous manager of an apartment complex and as a new owner of a spoo puppy, the yapping that will come from the crate when you leave the puppy will give you away in a second. It is a good thing you have the money as a back up.  

Have fun! This place is a great information site.

Kim


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## Pinky (Jul 21, 2010)

Littleknitwit, congrats on your puppy as well! We're both getting them next week  I'm naming her Charlie. What are you naming yours? That potty patch thing is awesome. I had never seen it before. Can they poop on that too, though? I mean I get them not wanting to put that in the infomercial ha but all I'm reading is how it absorbs urine. Seems like it'd be a pain to clean poop off of it. Has anyone ever used this? 

Margotsmom, they're sennding her on Continental Airlines bc I guess they have the temp controlled the whole way through and they're sending her at night. I have to pick her up at 9:30 which kind of sucks bc I wanted to play with her, but Phoenix is so miserably hot that's really the only way to do it safely. 

Schnauzerpoodle, OMG! Bell trained! Ha I love it. That's so awesome. What a smart dog! Everything I read said not to use newspaper bc it's messy, but I didn't consider that the puppy might try eating the litter. That's not good. Do you think I should use newspaper instead? It seems easier to me. Has anyone litter trained a toy poodle? I'm wondering what size of litter box I should get since she's so super tiny. 

Harley, I did check out the breeders. I fell in love with her and everything I've ever read says toy poodles are ready to go home at 8 weeks. She will be 9 weeks by the time she arrives. They seem reputable enough. I got her from purebredbreeders.com which is where celebrities get their dogs so I felt they were a safe company to go with.

FJM, she's 8 weeks right now. I tried contacting the breeder directly but the company I went through said they don't give their contact information during the sale and I will have it once the puppy arrives which I found odd. I wanted to know what her feeding schedule is, what she's eating which is when they told me that food and how if they're trying to housetrain her. I get grossed out really easily so I'm dreading accidents. Luckily my little brother has offered to do the cleaning up ha. The drive home from the airport is only about 10 minutes. I just didn't want to wait to hold her, but I think I will. Although in the directions I got for her arrival it says to give her Nutri Cal as soon as I pick her up from the airport. I don't know if I should slightly open the crate to give it to her or if I should wait until we get home..what did you guys do? I suppose it's different for toys since they're much smaller than the other poodles. I've been looking for puppy training classes to help train her as well as socialize her but the only one I know if is provided by the pet store Petsmart and I've had friends take their dogs there and they said it sucks. And I'm worried about her being around bigger dogs since she's so tiny.


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

You're getting your puppy from a puppymill.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Congrats on your new puppy and best of luck in raising her to be a happy companion. Poodles are great dogs, and take to training like ducks to water. There are some very good youtube videos out there on training in general and clicker training in particular, if you are interested. It's a great way to engage with your dog. Someone on this forum recommended Kikopup's videos, and I would pass that recommendation on. Clicker training could make you litter box training super easy. 

Not bashing, but I had a look at website you referenced, the one you've ordered your puppy from, and to me, it screams puppy mill broker in about a thousand ways. 

If it were me, I'd get the pup checked by a vet first thing.

I have never heard of this broker before, but it is pretty easy to find people who have had experience with them; there are some comments by previous customers of this site at Purebred Breeders.com Reviews, Complaints and Compliments and Purebred Breeders LLC Review | Rip-off Report #612372.


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## Pinky (Jul 21, 2010)

Whaaaat? Puppy mills are what I was trying to avoid. Oh, no. I hope she's ok  I still want her, though. That's what I get for trusting those damn Kardashians..anything they promote I'm all over. I'm such a sucker for celebrities. I am taking her to the vet, though. It's required, actually. Ugh I'm so worried now. They seemed reputable to me! I didn't think to research them, I just saw that celebs got their dogs there so I figured they were ok. Ugh ugh ugh!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I would like to implore you not to take your pup out in public until it has had its third shot. I always wait two weeks after it before taking them anywhere another dog may have been.

I free feed my dogs, but not when they are puppies. Pups are schedule fed, because food in, poop out. It is so much easier to potty train if you know when they are schedule fed.

Crate training in my opinion is imperative. Pups are teeth with legs. If you crate the puppy when you leave your home, you will always know what you are going to come home to. No chewed couches, no chewed garbage...a much nicer thing to come home to.

I recently shipped a puppy from Iceland. When they brought the crate to me, I opened the crate door and let him walk out on his own steam to me. He came bouncing out of the crate, tail wagging 90 miles an hour. He was fabulous!!! They are so resilient and accepting. The flights do not bother them in the least. A Facebook friend just shipped a breeding puppy from Australiia to Sweden and that was a three day affair from beginning to end, and he was absolutely fine when he arrived at his destination. 

I do agree however that this is a lot for a toy dog at eight weeks of age. I would ask your breeder to hang on to the pup for a few more weeks, even if you have to pay board for them to keep it. Much safer for the puppy. Just my opinion.


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

Honestly, I would not get the pup. Not only are you supporting these disgusting puppymillers, you're risking getting a very unhealthy dog and a very temperamentally unstable dog. 

If you want to start off on the right foot, DO NOT get this dog.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

If you compare the claims made on the purebredbreeders website with those in this article Pet Store Doublespeak : The Humane Society of the United States, it is almost a complete match.


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## Pinky (Jul 21, 2010)

I just want to cry now. I think I have to get her because I signed a contract. If I cancel now I'll have to pay $500. To me, technically an adult but I still consider myself a kid, that's a lot. And I am so in love with her. Ugh I don't know what to do.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Locket said:


> Honestly, I would not get the pup. Not only are you supporting these disgusting puppymillers, you're risking getting a very unhealthy dog and a very temperamentally unstable dog.
> 
> If you want to start off on the right foot, DO NOT get this dog.


I agree. If you haven't already paid for the puppy, cancel getting it. I'm sorry, but you can do much better than that.


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## Pinky (Jul 21, 2010)

I already paid for it  Reading over the contract now and I can't cancel it. Ugh this sucks. I should have known better, but it was my first time buying any sort of pet and once I saw the celebrity testimonials I thought they were a safe bet. And the puppy is so cute I'm already in love with her.


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## Pinky (Jul 21, 2010)

I have to take her to the vet within 2 days from getting her, isn't that good? Then at least I'll know if she has any problems, right?


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

The unfortunate thing is that celebrities aren't always the smartest people or best role models lol


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

Pinky, I am so sorry things are like this for you but do understand... you try and do things right and find they arent. I am assuming the you have paid the money up front and even paid for transport? Im sure it will be next to impossible to recover the costs. Sometimes we have to make to most of things and hopefully you will have a healthy happy puppy arrive for you. I have known many Puppy Mill puppies that have been great pets no thanks to their disreputable breeders. I think what I would hate the most is feeling like i have in some way supported them but it is a live and learn thing. My puppy didnt come from a Puppy Mill but didnt come from a big time breeder either. I did have the advantage of meeting his parents and the people that raised him for the first 4 months and finding that they had done some testing of the parents. He is not top quality but he is pretty, smart and will be a wonderful companion for many years. I am sending good thoughts your way that your little one will be the same for you. I Would have her vet checked so if there is a real health issue you can try and work something out with that but then you have the issue fro transport again... always hard and expensive... Good luck and try and stay positive and enjoy the experience if you decide to accept delivery of her!


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## Littleknitwit (Jul 19, 2010)

Pinky did you pay with a credit card? If so you may be able to call them and they can help you back out and get your money back if the company won't allow it.

I am sure there are many people on here who can help you find a reputable breeder. 

If you can't get out of it, don't beat yourself up. You are young and made an honest mistake! You live you learn. 

With all that said, you really should try to get out of it. It seems like a lot of money for a dog that is badly bred...


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## Pinky (Jul 21, 2010)

Thank you, feathersrpings. I'm going to hope she is a good and healthy puppy. I guess I'll find out once I take her to the vet. My friend bought a dog from a puppy mill unbeknownst to him at the time, and he turned out alright. I'm hoping my little Charlie is the same way. I do feel guilty buying from a puppy mill, though. But it's like you said, you live and learn.


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## Pinky (Jul 21, 2010)

I did pay with a credit card. I know I can dispute it through Visa, but since I signed a contract I don't think that would work. And like I said I really am so in love with her as is my mom and my little brother. We were looking forward to her being our first pet. Plus, all pets need love, right? Despite of how they were bred. This is so discouraging. I went from being super excited to super heartbroken.


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

Pinky said:


> I did pay with a credit card. I know I can dispute it through Visa, but since I signed a contract I don't think that would work. And like I said I really am so in love with her as is my mom and my little brother. We were looking forward to her being our first pet. Plus, all pets need love, right? Despite of how they were bred. This is so discouraging. I went from being super excited to super heartbroken.


I really hate for you to feel that way...  I will be looking forward to seeing your pictures and Im sure you will get that excitement back when she gets here!! I have had a lot of dogs shipped and I have never had a problem. The climate controlled cargo areas have been great. My friend is having a rescue bird shipped across country that way as we speak.

If you are having any second thoughts ( though I dont think you are) you could just try and call the credit card company and see what they say... Im sure they could tell you if the contract would make it impossible to cancel the sale and get a refund. 

Sherry


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## Pinky (Jul 21, 2010)

Yeah, I think I'm going to do that anyway just to see what my option are. Blah. This sucks.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Good luck whatever happens.

With puppy mills, it isn't the pups I feel sorry for. They generally escape. 

The ones that suffer are the breeder dogs, alone and lonely, breeding litter after litter, living really miserable lives. I've seen a few ex-puppy mill breeding dogs, and they are the saddest things on the planet, frightened of everything, frightened to DO anything, convinced that there is nothing good in life for them, ever. 

Those are the ones that break my heart. 

When dogs signed up to be man's best friend, I'm pretty sure that's not what they had in mind. 

We, people, have a responsibility, and puppy mill breeding dogs have been let down badly.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

This is such a very sad situation, and shows just how clever the puppy farmers and wholesalers can be in tweaking heart strings and confusing well-meaning puppy buyers. Pinkie, if you can you may be safer walking away from this one. There will be other puppies - perhaps even a rescue pup - all of whom need happy loving homes. But if you decide to go ahead, then I hope your puppy is a darling, and gets a clean bill of health from the vet. Remember she may not have had the very best start in life, and concentrate on making up for it in her life with you. And spread the word about how deceptive these puppy selling sites can be - it is largely your age group that will be buying pups for the first time in the coming years - you can do a LOT to help educate them.


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

JE-UK said:


> Good luck whatever happens.
> 
> With puppy mills, it isn't the pups I feel sorry for. They generally escape.
> 
> ...


This is so true... it is difficult if not impossible for some to integrate into any sort of normal life. The whole puppy mill thing make me sick ( as well as a lot of other sick things allowed to go on in our society in the name of money. Hopefully someday it will not be allowed.. we are so overpopulated with puppies and kittens anyway that we sure dont need them!


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Oh, I replied to a post, went to bed and got up and saw all these. Pinky, I'm so so sorry to hear that your pup is from the puppy mill. My first dog was from a pet store. He's the sweetest and most loyal friend of mine. BUT he had almost every single genetic diseases that are prone to his breed. He had multiple surgeries and ER visits since he was five. He was a tough little guy and didn't complain a bit and loved me till he left me when he was 10. Do I love him? Yes, I loved him and I still do and I still have tears in my eyes as I am typing this, even though he left me 6 yrs ago. Would I buy another pet from pet store/puppy mill? Hell no. First, I don't think I can bear that kind of pain seeing a pup getting sick and being put on prescription diet half of his life. Second, I don't want to encourage those 'breeders'.

So, if you can back out from this 'transaction', it would be great. I'm sure you can find a healthy, intelligent, even-tempered puppy from a reputable breeder who has his/her dogs health-tested. If not, then focus on creating the best life for her. Have you made a vet appt yet? Have you locate an emergency facility close by your house? You should start looking for puppy training classes too. Have you prepared your shopping list? There are a lot of experienced poodle owners here who are willing to help you. I have learned a lot from them and I am still learning. Good luck with everything and keep us updated.

p.s. Here's a link to one of Nickel's 'business trips'. Just wanted to let you know that the litter box (and bell training) is totally doable. Dog litter is so much better than puppy pad or newspaper. It's so much cleaner - odor-free and track-free and no wet print all around.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1429929/Silver Boy/IMG_0255.MOV


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

Pinky, it is unfortunate that you did not find the forum before purchasing your pet! Like others have said, it can work out. I personally would try to get out of the transaction. You can rescue a pup, in my area there have recently been 2 litters of puppy mill toys up for adoption through local rescues. Or, we could help you scout out a reputable breeder. I know you are already attached to this little one, though. We will hope for the best. We all have to be prepared to spend money on vet visits and things that "pop up". It can happen with well bred dogs, even though it is unlikely if their parents have had all of the proper testing. We are here to support you, no matter what choice you make, and watch your little pup grow! 

Best of luck, and do keep us posted!!!1


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## Karma'sACat (Jun 1, 2010)

If at all possible, I would get out of this transaction. Call Visa, see what your options are.
If you can't, start researching pet insurance since there is a large possibility you will need it. This site and this one both have reviews of companies and policies so you can find one that will cover hereditary diseases as well as other illnesses. If you can't or don't want to do the insurance route, start a large pet emergency fund just in case you need it.


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## Margotsmom (Jun 6, 2010)

Please DO tell everyone you know about the fact that you can NOT trust buying animals over the internet. Educating your friends and acquaintances can save them from this heartbreak. And, the heartbreak of all of us who have seen these trainwrecks time and time and time again. If you go through with this I truly hope your puppy is not currently ill or genetically ill. You may end up with a big vet bill and a dead puppy. I am sorry but I have seen this happen all the time. I want you to really take a look at the possibilities here. As to the contract, if you break it will they come after you? That would cost them money so I doubt it. I am not a lawyer, but holding the contract over your head is just another way of trying to tie you into the deal. They are only interested in making money, not spending money. You should also consider that the plane may arrive with no dog. I have seen this happen too. You might want to take a look at www.dontbuypippies.com which is run by Best Friends Animal Society. You could probably call them for advise, and to report this mill (which they may already know about and what you may expect to result from your transaction, as to health issues, legal issues etc). I am glad you have found this forum, and can now help others avoid your learning experience.


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## Margotsmom (Jun 6, 2010)

sorry - Puppies Aren't Products - Best Friends Network


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## puppylove (Aug 9, 2009)

Pinkie, I am so sorry for this whole situation. I would love for you to be able to get out of it. There are toy breeders in Arizona and even some bybs that would be far better than a puppy mill that would ship a dog to Arizona in July. And there are dogs in rescue.

If you cannot get out of it, please get that dog out of it's crate as soon as you can, even in the terminal if possible. Night-time lows here are over 90 degrees, airports are huge heat sinks. If he spends any time on the tarmac, even at night, it could be deadly. Be sure that your puppy is well-hydrated (feel his gums). 

Good luck. Let us know what happens.


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## Pinky (Jul 21, 2010)

I can cancel it bc they haven't "shipped" her yet, but I will have to pay them a fee of $500 which is a large amount for me. That's like almost my car insurance for 6 months! On the phone right now with Visa...


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

Pinky said:


> I can cancel it bc they haven't "shipped" her yet, but I will have to pay them a fee of $500 which is a large amount for me. That's like almost my car insurance for 6 months! On the phone right now with Visa...


Good luck... hope they can do something for you ...$500. is a lot for me too...


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

Good for you for trying to get out of it. That is a lot of $$$ to anyone, for nothing, I think! Hope it turns out in your favor.


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## Pinky (Jul 21, 2010)

Visa said I don't have any grounds for a dispute since I don't even have the puppy yet and can't prove that she isn't a pure breed puppy. Which that isn't even really my main worry, I just don't want a sick puppy. She said their website doesn't say it's a puppy mill (ok, like it would) and I can't go off of reviews I've read online. She said if it dies then they do have a gurantee that they will replace her but hello, first that will be beyond traumatic. And two, I wouldn't just let my dog die...I'm going to have to spend a ton on medical bills if she's sick. A ton of money that I don't have if she's SUPER sick. I told her how it was weird that they didn't ask any questions about me before I bought her...for all they know I could be some evil person that would abuse her. And how they're sending her on a plane to AZ in July..I don't know why I didn't find that suspicious before. I mean, I guess I did bc I asked for a breeder IN AZ that I could drive to bc I didn't want my puppy traveling on a plane but they said they didn't have any. She (Visa) said the airlines wouldn't allow the puppy to be sent without it being safe. 

I'm so mad at myself. Not to be all woe is me, but I've had a really tough year. I mean like the worst year of my life. It's been tragedy after tragedy. I had a miscarriage last month and in a way I think getting a puppy was my way of trying to fill the emptiness in my heart from that and now I've just made things worse for myself. I have the worst luck of anyone I know. Seriously. I always get screwed. It's a running joke between my friends and I...where there's a chance for things to go wrong, it will always happen to me. I should have known better. All I can do at this point is either take the $500 hit or take the puppy and pray she isn't sick. What do you guys think I should do? Will the vet be able to know if she's pure bred or would I have to do some form of DNA testing for that? If that even exists..ugh what a mess. FML.


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## Pinky (Jul 21, 2010)

I could also try calling the breeder company directly...I just figured since I have a contract I'm SOL which is pretty much what Visa told me. Should I give it a try? I'm too upset to do it right now, but maybe I'll try them later.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

If it were me, I'd take the hit and lose the $500. I would not want a puppy mill puppy for many reasons, but mainly for the health risks. Puppy mills don't do health testing, and poodles have several serious health issues. You could end up paying much, much more down the road in medical bills.

Of course, it's a personal decision and only one you can make. 

Just so you know, if you bought a puppy from a reputable breeder, one who did health testing and perhaps showed their dogs in conformation or performance events to prove their dogs' conformation, temperament and structure, you would pay much more than $500. My miniature puppy was $1500. However, for me, I would rather pay more up front for peace of mind that my dog's parents were tested for genetic diseases. Of course, any dog can get sick during its lifetime. Heath testing isn't a guarantee, but it is a wonderful start.


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## Pinky (Jul 21, 2010)

I paid $1,400 for the puppy, if I cancel they refund me all but $500 of it. If I was getting all of my money back I wouldn't have such a problem with it. I'm torn.


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

It probably IS a purebred puppy. It is not hard to register the dogs as AKC purebred dogs. Where the problem is, is the fact that health testing is not done. Also, proper socialization/ only breeding dogs with a good temperament is not a priority for a puppy mill.

Some people do "get lucky" with puppy mill pets. 

I have no more advice to give you, you have done all of the right things to try to get out of it. You are also not the first person that has gone through this. Many people on this forum (and elsewhere!) have unknowingly done the same thing. It is so easy to fall into a trap like this, especially with your first pet and all. I am just so sorry you are going through this.

Sending you hugs!!!!


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Pinky said:


> I could also try calling the breeder company directly...I just figured since I have a contract I'm SOL which is pretty much what Visa told me. Should I give it a try? I'm too upset to do it right now, but maybe I'll try them later.


I don't think it could hurt to try. I would not accuse them of being a puppy mill or selling a sick puppy, but maybe lie and say you had second thoughts, you're moving, your landlord said no to a pet, or something...


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

I knew they had to be some kind of puppy mill ! any time some one says celeb Testimonial 9 out of 10 its a puppymill type operation.

I would too just take my losses , I would never buy from a puppy mill. There are breeders in AZ because I know one and he could help you with finding a toy poodle.

edit to say there are plenty of toy breeders in CA and if you where going to ship a dog CA is only one state over. I can get you in contact with some reputable toy breeders also


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Don't be mad at yourself - at least you are now trying to do something to fix it!! $500 is a lot! Going through the disappointment is hectic and we all understand it.

Good luck!


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## Pinky (Jul 21, 2010)

Well, I talked it over with my mom and I've decided to leave it as is. I made an appointment with a vet for the afternoon after she gets here and hopefully she gets a clean bill of health. If she doesn't...well, I'm hoping they will be able to help me or Visa will be able to dispute it at that point. I'm praying everything will turn out fine. I really do already love her and I haven't even received her yet. It may turn out to be an expensive lesson for me to learn but I'm hoping for the best. I know I will love Charlie regardless of where she came from.


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

Pinky said:


> Well, I talked it over with my mom and I've decided to leave it as is. I made an appointment with a vet for the afternoon after she gets here and hopefully she gets a clean bill of health. If she doesn't...well, I'm hoping they will be able to help me or Visa will be able to dispute it at that point. I'm praying everything will turn out fine. I really do already love her and I haven't even received her yet. It may turn out to be an expensive lesson for me to learn but I'm hoping for the best. I know I will love Charlie regardless of where she came from.



Of course you will! We are all hoping for the best for you! Best of luck!


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

Not that i would ever suggest people go to a puppy mill to get a puppy but a majority of Poodles that I groomed over the years didnt have any testing done and some were from Puppy Mills and some form back yard breeders..I love that testing is available and really helps us to not breed more genetic problems but there are lots of dogs that arent tested that are healthy and happy. I wouldnt use her for breeding .. way too many out there to not only breed the best available but I think you have a great possibility of getting a puppy that will be fine. As far as socialization goes it would be great if she had more than she probably has so though i would prefer a puppy be older to leave the breeder in this case it is probably for the best. ...it just bothers me that they charge the same as you could buy a much better quality puppy for that was home raised... So , when is she arriving?? What color is she??? ...


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

well, if it's too late, then it's too late. get your baby. give her lots of love and hope for the best health wise. and spay/neuter as soon as you can. 

i have a cairn terrier i got from a breed rescue who came from a puppy mill/byb/hoarder lady. he was surrendered to the breed rescue because she had too many dogs. he's a very hardy fellow and i've not had any health issues (except bad breath when i got him, but a good diet helped that) ... he's snuggling with me right now.

and thing is, now you know. so love your baby and help to educate others to NOT be lured into false advertising. 

hugs.


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

Another story to encourage you; my sister bought a chihuahua from a pet store. That was about 6 years ago. He's been fine. It happens. Focus now on socializing, training, and loving up that baby!!!


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## Pinky (Jul 21, 2010)

Thanks guys  I appreciate that. I've been stressing over it all day, but I'm just going to hope for the best. She's arriving on Tuesday and she's cream colored. She's soooo freakin cute I can't stand it. I'll be sure to post pics once she arrives.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Good luck and I hope you get a healthy puppy. Be sure to tell the vet that this puppy came from a larger-scale breeding operation and to check her carefully. Especially because she is a toy. I am hoping she is normal sized or oversized and not undersized like many puppy millers try to shoot for...


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

So, Pinky, is she here yet????


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## Pinky (Jul 21, 2010)

No, she will be here on Tuesday evening


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