# Resource Guarding rearing its head 😣



## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

Hey all.

So, firstly, I've read both PtP and Fozzie's Mom's threads on resource guarding, and did so ahead of this incident I am about to share with you. 
I understand it to be a normal thing... that is, from a dog's perspective, I think I get it. I have compassion for it, at the least. 

I also know not to punish it or to specifically punish growling, and that rather I must take both a preventative approach and work with B to teach her good things come when she's approached and has a treasure. 

So far, she's growled once at me with a bone. This was weeks ago and with her first bone. 
I quickly started using the tossing treats game and now have no problem approaching her or picking up the bone. She seems to trust all is well there.

Last night however we experienced an interesting event. 

First-- I am definitely Bennie's main "person."
She is good with the kids and good with my partner but it's clear that she and I have the best connection. That's natural given I am home with her the most. 
I am making sure to give the kids opportunities to do little training sessions with her, and now that we have begun puppy classes, they'll each take their turns coming with me to those too.

Anyhow last night I was upstairs with my youngest, getting her to bed. 
Typically at this time, Bennie is in her "place" (a cot bed in the living room), or she is crated (also in living room). I'm still working on training her to like the crate rather than minimally tolerate it so if it seems her anxiousness is amping, settling on the cot suffices. 

My middle child (8 year old) and partner read together in the living room as I get the youngest to bed. 
On occasion, Bennie will hang out with my 8 year old in my big oversized chair while I am upstairs. This is also the same chair that she knows she gets to cuddle with me on once all kids are in bed. It's also the only human furniture she is allowed on thus far. My partner has allergies and though he's been good with Bennie, we have opted to have a no couch policy (as that's his evening hang out place) and no bedroom policy. 

So last night was one such night that Bennie was in the chair with my daughter.
She proceeded to lounge out, edging my daughter out. When my daughter attempted to move her over, Bennie growled. This understandably scared my kid, who is oh-so-sensitive to boot, so my partner got up from his place on the couch, told Bennie to move over, and tried to sit with her himself. She growled at him. 
So he put her collar and leash on and crated her. 

When I came downstairs Bennie was still in her crate in the room with them. 
I opened the crate door and acknowledged her but instructed her to stay put. Amazingly she did (honestly she wouldn't hang out in there given the choice).
My partner and I watched a tv show, with Bennie staring at me longingly from her crate. Not a whimper, not a whine, no noise. I praised her for settling.

At the end of the tv show, my partner got up to say good night to me. As an experiment I invited him to sit with me on the chair, and as he did, Bennie exited her crate and trotted toward us. I led her back to her crate, and she stayed there once more with the door open while partner went to bed. 

I had a hard time sleeping last night! 
I need my whole family to get along and Bennie's growl certainly unnerved both my partner and my child. As my kid said, "I don't know why she doesn't like me, I just wanted her to move over a bit."

I plan on keeping her off of the chair for the next while and involving the kids even more in her training. 
I do understand that my partner would have been better off to instruct her "off" and to toss a treat on the floor. That's what I would have done. But he's doing the best he can given that he agreed to a dog mostly because the kids and I were really hopeful for one. 

Any other recommendations or something I may be missing?! I need to make sure that Bennie respects all family members and that this incident doesn't grow into something more.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I’m not an expert but at least while you seek help (I would make it permanent), there should be no more chair, couch or anything of the sort. No bones or high value treats or toys; only things she finds so-so and won’t care if someone takes.

This behavior has nothing to do with liking your daughter, or you, or anyone else. This dog has a strong temperament and needs a strong hand (I don’t mean physical correction). Maybe it’s your first dog or maybe you’ve just always had easier dogs.

I‘ve had a few dogs that were good with me (one rescue I had to work on) but when they went in their new family, started having resource guarding issues. So it’s not the dog, it’s the way you interact with him. The good news is this can be fixed if you have the right person to help.

For now protect your kids and be firm on the rules, both with them and the dog.

I wish you the best.


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

I would also consider whether this is solely resource guarding or also something about the way your daughter and husband tried to move her. The above tactic will certainly prevent her from continuing the resource guarding behavior with those things, but if there's an underlying physical discomfort issue you'll see this behavior in other situations anyway because there's a different problem.

I am in no way trying to suggest that you shouldn't take the advice to prevent/mitigate resource guarding. Just suggesting you take a two pronged approach and make sure to rule out or address any other issues.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

My gut tells me your girl requires consistency. _Predictability_. That can be hard to achieve with a bunch of different personalities and levels of dog savviness in the home. But that’s how you build up her confidence, and a confident dog doesn’t need to be so defensive.

A single online session with a behaviourist could be very helpful for you and your partner. That was the key for my husband and me. The whole household really has to be on the same page when raising a puppy, especially a smart puppy like a poodle.

If your partner is not interested in learning about dog handling, the best thing he can do is defer to you. In this situation, he could have asked you for assistance, right? His instinct in that moment was correct—to protect your daughter—but the means to that end is a longer term plan, and that’s the part he’s either going to need to work on or hand over to you. 

I suspect you know this, but you really want to constantly fuel Bennie’s _optimism_. If physical touch means getting displaced from her one cozy spot in the home, you know where that’s headed. Human hands should = good things. Especially in the evening when her sleep hormones are kicking in. I find that to be an especially vulnerable time.

(Side note: It sounds like you’ve made good progress with approaching her when she has a bone. Speaking from experience, just keep in mind that a few weeks is enough to see positive changes, but you’re still working on building a foundation of trust. That trust needs to be reinforced every day, ideally without removing the treasure. At minimum I try to work at a 10 to 1 ratio, either giving Peggy the treasure back most of the time or not taking it in the first place, just approaching with something good.)


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> My gut tells me your girl requires consistency. _Predictability_. That can be hard to achieve with a bunch of different personalities and levels of dog savviness in the home. But that’s how you build up her confidence, and a confident dog doesn’t need to be so defensive.
> 
> A single online session with a behaviourist could be very helpful for you and your partner. That was the key for my husband and me. The whole household really has to be on the same page when raising a puppy, especially a smart puppy like a poodle.
> 
> ...


This resonates with me, all of it. 

I do need my partner to both defer to me, but also to have a better understanding himself. It's just not realistic to assume that I will ALWAYS be home to deal with issues even though I am most of the time as it stands. 

The more I reflect on what happened, the more I think there are a couple of factors at play: 
1) Bennie definitely hadn't gotten the same amount of napping in yesterday as she usually does. She was tired and I'm sure more vulnerable due to that factor. 
2) I've had to speak to the kids about refraining from trying to pick Bennie up. She is great with being handled, truly, and we continue to maintain this by passive restraint and handling because I don't want a ticking time bomb of a dog with kids. But at the same time, I'd be truly annoyed to be swooped down upon and picked up. I didn't see what happened, I don't think this was the case in this incident but perhaps there has been behaviour in the past that made Bennie suspicious. As you said, various levels of dog savviness. I am thinking of @Misteline 's comment here too. 

Thank you for your recommendations. I'm going to keep up the approach of giving treats on top of treasures etc. I have the rest of the family doing it too. Your resource guarding thread with Peggy has been such a good wealth of info for me to get right on this issue without delay.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Annie occasionally grumbles when my mom sits next to her on the couch. It's not even a growl, just a grumble, glare, hop off. Mom isn't always careful sitting down, and has sat on her tail/back end! So I've worked with my mom to tell Annie "off" before sitting down. I would also hate to be sat on, or near, without warning, and I think Annie likes the warning even if it means she loses her spot on the couch. She will also growl if my mom picks up Trixie and tries to put her down near Annie. They snuggle on the bed together, but Mom has put Trixie down on top of Annie (why?! Just why?!) And now Annie growls. 


So as prevention 'off!' 'Good girl, have a treat!' might help. We also use the cue 'move, please!' or 'shove over, dog!' to let the dogs have an opportunity to move over without us moving them. You can teach both cues positively. Rather than just teaching the dog to be passive - teach consent, and teach kids to understand signs of discomfort. Consent is a good thing for both dogs and kids to understand.

Have you seen this video? Or more importantly, have the kids? 






As for picking puppies up... I taught Annie a 'ready? Up?' cue. She rotates to make it easier if she wants up and even lifts herself to make it easier. She moves away if she doesn't. 

As a kid, I had a puppy who one day finally growled at me when I picked him up. He was a confident, good puppy, but finally had enough or wasn't interested. I picked him up again later, but stopped picking him up all the time. Message acknowledged. No big deal. My parents response when I mentioned it was 'well, why were you picking him up?' That was the only time in his life he ever growled at me, and that included when he lay down and let me pull porcupine quills from his face and feet.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Those two factors could absolutely combine into the incident you described. Do you positively reinforce restraint? Or touch? Not sure how old they are, but your kids might enjoy the method I still occasionally use. Hold the collar, treat. Pat the bum, treat. Place my hand on the back, treat. Touch the top of the head, treat. I build positive little touches like that into every day. I try to think of them as investments. Maybe your kids would be okay with not picking up Bennie if they had some alternative interactions like that to practise.

And when you need encouragement, think about this: It was an incident with a sock that prompted us to finally reach out to a behaviourist. Just a few minutes before I read your thread, I was napping on the couch and felt something on my chest. It was a sock. Peggy had dug it out of some laundry and carefully placed it on me.

Poodles have infinite potential.  And they’ll always do what’s most reinforcing to them. Once you wrap your head around that—or, in this case, once your partner wraps his head around that—anything is possible. It’s like a secret formula.

I recently heard my husband _beautifully_ managing some mundane situation with Peggy. He was using a light, jolly voice. Afterward he muttered to himself, “_I sound ridiculous._” But.....he still did it. And that’s because he learned the formula.  In our case the behaviourist really was necessary, though. Taking direction from a professional is often easier than listening to a nagging partner. And I was definitely turning into a nagging partner. No fun for either of us.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

That is such a great video, @For Want of Poodle.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Gosh, it's hard with a sensitive and affectionate kid. Maybe you could explain Bennie's reaction in terms of how a kid would react if her sister tried to push her off her chair while she was watching cartoons. It's not that the cartoon watching kid hates her sister. She just hates it when her sister interrupts the cartoons. And, really, who would be in the wrong?

I have two tactics when a dog is lying someplace where I want to sit. 1) I find someplace else to sit. 2) Instead of shoving the dog out of the way (which never works with a 50+ pound dog anyway) I ask the dog to get off the couch. Sometimes, when I know the dog is having a mood, I scatter treats on the floor and quietly sit down while the dog is snarfing them up. The treat hunt gives the dog a positive reason to vacate the spot where I want to sit. After I sit down I invite the dog back up with me, praise him for jumping up next to me, and gently massage his head to encourage him to settle calmly. The end result is that the dog gets treats, a massage, and a place on the couch when I sit on the couch. It's a positive experience for him.

I also practice having my dogs jump onto and off the couch, chairs, my bed, the tailgate of my car, and even foot stools. Part of the reason for this training is to get them used to jumping up when I need them to get into the car or onto the scale at the vet's office. However, part of the reason for it is so they always think "Off" is part of a game instead of a punishment.


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

I don't want to pile on your husband too much, but regardless of whether he really wanted a dog or not...a dog your family now has. That means he has to learn the proper way to handle the dog and all dog related situations. There is no "their dog" or "her dog" or "my dog" when it comes to the proper training of a dog in a home in which there are young children. It's all hands on deck, because dogs can be _dangerous*. *_Mixed signals and confusion lead to fear and fear leads to danger.

He needs to know how to handle the dog properly and consistently so he doesn't confuse the dog or the children. Puppies and children are wonderfully adaptable, but both deserve every advantage they can be given.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

cowpony said:


> I also practice having my dogs jump onto and off the couch, chairs, my bed, the tailgate of my car, and even foot stools. Part of the reason for this training is to get them used to jumping up when I need them to get into the car or onto the scale at the vet's office. However, part of the reason for it is so they always think "Off" is part of a game instead of a punishment.


I love this. I will often follow “Off!” with “Up!” followed by another “Off!” Sometimes I’ll treat for it, but Peggy thinks this is a pretty fun game so the reward is built-in.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

Thank you so much, all, for your replies.
You've offered me some food for thought and now I'm curious about what you think of it:

Firstly, Bennie still can't jump up on the furniture herself (too small). We've made it a rule that it's by invitation only- and again, only the oversized chair, not the couch. She's still too little and needs to be lifted. So it was my daughter who actually lifted her to be on the chair, _with her. 

So it wasn't as if she was already in the chair and then my kid came and tried to budge her off. They were sitting together and then Bennie stretched out._
(I don't know how this is italicized but it won't let me change it). 

Okay so given THAT info, do you think? (And, again, I appreciate what's been offered so far and am going to apply it all to future interactions for sure). 

I find myself attempting to the best of my ability to transmute my anxiety into curiosity. 
Bennie is most definitely not a scary or vicious creature. I know this is something to take seriously- and I am- but I know if I let myself spiral into paralyzing fear I won't be helping anyone. 
Curiosity is my best tool when I encounter something that feels big and intimidating.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> That is such a great video, @For Want of Poodle.


Agreed! I'd seen that somewhere before but I just watched it with the kids. I was thoroughly impressed with how quickly they "got" it! 😍


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

You know Bennie best, so if you read it as a growl, then it probably is one, but other things might be informative too. Like, did she move toward or away from your daughter, or stiffen up? Getting tense would make me think it's more likely the kind of growl that you are right to be concerned about. If she stayed relaxed and flooped away or toward your kid, I might wonder if it was a different kind of protest vocalization. Oona makes all kinds of crazy sounds with my daughter on the couch, including yodeling. These are playful though, and Bennie's do sound more defensive/reactive based on the circumstance.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

Oonapup said:


> You know Bennie best, so if you read it as a growl, then it probably is one, but other things might be informative too. Like, did she move toward or away from your daughter, or stiffen up? Getting tense would make me think it's more likely the kind of growl that you are right to be concerned about. If she stayed relaxed and flooped away or toward your kid, I might wonder if it was a different kind of protest vocalization. Oona makes all kinds of crazy sounds with my daughter on the couch, including yodeling. These are playful though, and Bennie's do sound more defensive/reactive based on the circumstance.


I just asked my daughter for even more specifics after reading this. (And honestly I thought I'd grilled her and my partner). She said Bennie was curled up on her side, almost asleep. Her eyes were closed. Daughter says she didn't notice her body tense at all, nor did her eyes open. Maybe it was a protest, I am wondering if it was more of a grouchy don't touch me I'm sleeping as opposed to an alert and stiff on guard situation. When my partner came over to assess the situation, Daughter says "Daddy didn't touch her when she growled but I think it's possible that he did sit on her tail."

Well then, this changes a lot in my opinion! Still a situation to learn from and proceed with caution, but I don't feel nearly so sick about it.

Also, what I wouldn't give to hear your dog yodel!!!


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

BennieJets said:


> I just asked my daughter for even more specifics after reading this. (And honestly I thought I'd grilled her and my partner). She said Bennie was curled up on her side, almost asleep. Her eyes were closed. Daughter says she didn't notice her body tense at all, nor did her eyes open. Maybe it was a protest, I am wondering if it was more of a grouchy don't touch me I'm sleeping as opposed to an alert and stiff on guard situation. When my partner came over to assess the situation, Daughter says "Daddy didn't touch her when she growled but I think it's possible that he did sit on her tail."
> 
> Well then, this changes a lot in my opinion! Still a situation to learn from and proceed with caution, but I don't feel nearly so sick about it.
> 
> Also, what I wouldn't give to hear your dog yodel!!!


Um it’s hilarious and I can try to get a video, but since it’s a sort of obnoxious mouthy play behavior we try to avoid it. She only does it with my daughter and I think she is a little over threshold and/or trying to encourage her to turn into a puppy.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

BennieJets said:


> Firstly, Bennie still can't jump up on the furniture herself (too small). We've made it a rule that it's by invitation only- and again, only the oversized chair, not the couch. She's still too little and needs to be lifted. So it was my daughter who actually lifted her to be on the chair, _with her.
> 
> So it wasn't as if she was already in the chair and then my kid came and tried to budge her off. They were sitting together and then Bennie stretched out._


Since you already mentioned in another post that your partner might have sat on Bennie's tail, my answer is really more general than applicable to what happened that night.

Some dogs don't like to be lifted. I needed to carry my boy Galen up and down stairs when he was still to small to climb them himself. Eventually he indicated that he really disliked being picked up by backing away whenever I went to scoop him up. A few toy owners have also posted here about issues they've had with their dogs not wanting to be picked up. I wonder if, at some point, Bennie will also find it annoying and stressful to be picked up.

With a spoo this dislike of being picked up tends to cause less conflict when they get older. They are too big to pick up just because you want to give them a hug, and they are capable of hopping up onto much of the furniture you might want them to sit on. I'm also assuming that Bennie, your daughter, and your partner will soon stop fitting in the chair together. Even so, it's worth watching to make sure Bennie is comfortable with being picked up.

I dealt with Galen's dislike by reducing the amount I needed to carry him. Our yard has a bit of a slope to it, so our two back doors exit from different floors. I started taking him out one back door and in the other instead of using the stairs. I also clicker trained him to consent to having a hand placed under his chest and being lifted. Eventually, of course, he figured out how to climb stairs, and I no longer needed to worry about lifting him.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

On picking up a Spoo puppy, I think it will soon be almost impossible for a child the age of yours to pick one up safely. I would consider starting to discourage it. A dog needs both ends supported to be comfortably and safely lifted, whether small or large.

Bennie is going to be a wonderful family member. The wise words above can help you all be on the same page. And you might consider consulting PtP's remote behaviorist proactively to provide the entire family the benefit of an expert.

Years ago I consulted one, and a single appointment brought a permanent, kind, workable solution for the problem. We had a different issue, but it was still a problem and the solution was not intuitive or common sense for a layperson, but the behaviorist knew her stuff and explained things so we could understand what was going on in my dog's mind.


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

BennieJets said:


> I just asked my daughter for even more specifics after reading this. (And honestly I thought I'd grilled her and my partner). She said Bennie was curled up on her side, almost asleep. Her eyes were closed. Daughter says she didn't notice her body tense at all, nor did her eyes open. Maybe it was a protest, I am wondering if it was more of a grouchy don't touch me I'm sleeping as opposed to an alert and stiff on guard situation. When my partner came over to assess the situation, Daughter says "Daddy didn't touch her when she growled but I think it's possible that he did sit on her tail."
> 
> Well then, this changes a lot in my opinion! Still a situation to learn from and proceed with caution, but I don't feel nearly so sick about it.
> 
> Also, what I wouldn't give to hear your dog yodel!!!


I'm happy you came to us and ended up with a better understanding of the situation! Seems less and less like resource guarding and more like a handling issue. If she was asleep she might not have had full awareness of your daughter and it might have actually been more of a grumble. And if a grown man sat on me I'd growl too! The big chair might not be big enough to sit next to Bennie and eventually it might not be big enough to sit with Bennie even in one's lap. (Evelyn is a testament to some dogs having the opinion that any space is big enough for a dog to sit on a human's lap.) I think any sitting with Bennie may be better positioned on a cushion on the floor unless you plan on getting a second couch or something.

But the other situation with the bone does indicate that resource guarding is an issue to continue to work on. We live and learn.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

As a puppy, Peggy would startle if bumped while sleeping and this sometimes would produce a growl. I worked to desensitize her to this type of touch and it’s happened only once that I can recall in the past year. Some dogs are more tightly wound than others, but I don’t think it’s all that weird. My husband flails if I wake him from a deep sleep. And while I don’t lash out physically, I get a huge adrenaline search.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

Streetcar said:


> On picking up a Spoo puppy, I think it will soon be almost impossible for a child the age of yours to pick one up safely. I would consider starting to discourage it. A dog needs both ends supported to be comfortably and safely lifted, whether small or large.
> 
> Bennie is going to be a wonderful family member. The wise words above can help you all be on the same page. And you might consider consulting PtP's remote behaviorist proactively to provide the entire family the benefit of an expert.
> 
> Years ago I consulted one, and a single appointment brought a permanent, kind, workable solution for the problem. We had a different issue, but it was still a problem and the solution was not intuitive or common sense for a layperson, but the behaviorist knew her stuff and explained things so we could understand what was going on in my dog's mind.


Oh the kids most definitely know not to try to pick her up without an adult present... I made that an absolute rule before she even came home out of fear she'd be dropped and whatnot. She'll be a smaller Spoo, but nonetheless I can absolutely appreciate how just scooping an animal up, regardless of size, disregards their ability to consent to it. 

Such great advice and insight I've gotten on this thread!


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

Misteline said:


> I'm happy you came to us and ended up with a better understanding of the situation! Seems less and less like resource guarding and more like a handling issue. If she was asleep she might not have had full awareness of your daughter and it might have actually been more of a grumble. And if a grown man sat on me I'd growl too! The big chair might not be big enough to sit next to Bennie and eventually it might not be big enough to sit with Bennie even in one's lap. (Evelyn is a testament to some dogs having the opinion that any space is big enough for a dog to sit on a human's lap.) I think any sitting with Bennie may be better positioned on a cushion on the floor unless you plan on getting a second couch or something.
> 
> But the other situation with the bone does indicate that resource guarding is an issue to continue to work on. We live and learn.


We've joked about Bennie not understanding she's not a lap dog. She routinely crawls into laps if we're on the floor. She is a smaller Spoo, but I do agree that the furniture bit has to be rethunk. Especially with kids.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> As a puppy, Peggy would startle if bumped while sleeping and this sometimes would produce a growl. I worked to desensitize her to this type of touch and it’s happened only once that I can recall in the past year. Some dogs are more tightly wound than others, but I don’t think it’s all that weird. My husband flails if I wake him from a deep sleep. And while I don’t lash out physically, I get a huge adrenaline search.


I wake muttering a swear under my breath 😣 which always made me feel like I was the WORST mom when it was one of the kids over the baby monitor. But yeah, adrenaline surge is certainly a thing isn't it?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I will make a disclaimer on perhaps having missed something since I only read your original post. On that basis Iyou do understand that it is most likely that the resource being guarded is you, not the chair per say. I would take the chair out of the picture and I would also make sure that Bennie has training time with everyone so she learns to respect everyone.

One other thing to think about while you are working this out is to do some environmental management to prevent situations where there are conflicts about treasured objects. I would not give bones or other things that Bennie is likely to protect for the time being.


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