# Should I be concerned? - hips



## Milliekins (Mar 31, 2012)

I've noticed that when Millie sits her left knee is upright quite close to her body but her right knee leans outwards a bit loosely? away from her body at maybe about a 45 degree angle. She can only give paw / high five with her front left leg as her front right leg is definitely supporting her and if it is lifted (with the left one on the floor), she collapses to a laying position.

This is actually an improvement from when she first came to us - she wouldn't sit properly at all, instead sitting on the side of her back left leg with both back legs out to the right side.

Also, when she goes into the "down" position, she always puts her legs out to the right side. I have not managed to get her to do this with her legs tucked underneath her like every other dog I have seen.

I don't know if this is likely to just be a habit she got into when she was a young puppy, whether it could be to do with needing to build up her muscles and strength from being underweight (and I think under exercised) before she came to us, or if it's actually a sign of problems with her joints. I am aware that poodles can have bad hips which is why I'm not wanting to ignore this if she could be in pain. When we got her we took her to straight to the vet the following day for an examination and he didn't pick up any health problems.


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## peepers (Apr 13, 2012)

*hips*

Have your vet check for hip dysplasia. I had a Dobie with a similar problem. It was a mild case and she lived a good long time. Best of Luck.


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## Arcticfox (Dec 12, 2011)

Milliekins said:


> Also, when she goes into the "down" position, she always puts her legs out to the right side. I have not managed to get her to do this with her legs tucked underneath her like every other dog I have seen.


I don't know about the rest of it but my instructor in puppy class actually encouraged the laying with legs off to the side. When Tesla does "down" with her legs tucked under, she'd not really lying down - her belly barely touches the ground. She's actually hovering there ready to spring back up as soon as she thinks I'm not looking. The side legs "down" is a more relaxed pose. Anyways that's what I was told.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I am struggling to remember exactly what was said at a McTimony seminar I went to recently about sitting/lying cock-eyed - I think it can definitely be a sign of something not quite right. As Peepers says, it is worth getting it checked by your vet, and getting advice on good management.


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## Milliekins (Mar 31, 2012)

How does the vet check for hip dysplasia is it xrays? Our vet felt her joints when he checked her over when we first got her - should he be able to feel if there is a problem?

I've noticed that when her knee is leaning outwards it's because she's sitting half properly and half on the side of her right hip, so it's the side of her right foot that's touching the floor, not the bottom of her foot, hence the knee sticks out.

Sometimes when I'm doing training with her I have noticed her sitting properly, with both feet down on the floor and both knees close to her sides so I know she can do it. She also sits properly to look out of the window as far as I'm aware - I will check next time she does it.

When she doesn't sit properly (sitting on side of her hip), she doesn't usually stay sitting for long - she slides down into lying position with her feet out to the side. I'm wondering if this sitting position is to make it easier to lie down? Or she could be lying down because she doesn't find sitting comfy?

She is still very boney on her back end - not sure if this would affect the way she sits?

Thanks for the advice, it's also helpful to know the laying with feet out is actually good not a problem. It does take her a long time to assume the "down" position like this though!


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

I am not sure how old your dog is? The vet could get ge an idea with a pysical exam but the best time/way to check a dog for HD is v-ray and when they are getting spayed or neutered. 

This could very well be one of the silly ways poodles sit too. Mine all sit off to the side oddly sometimes. 

I would watch how the dog plays. A consistent bunny hop when running, they say can be a sign of HD.


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## Milliekins (Mar 31, 2012)

Millie is 10 months old approx. (rescue dog so exact age not known). I will watch more closely when she runs and plays but I don't think she always bunny hops.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

My boy Bob sits with both legs way out to the side. The first photo below was taken 2 years ago and the second was taken just a few weeks ago. He has always been slower than other dogs and I have attributed that to his bad breeding and terrible conformation. His bones are just not put together right. (I love him anyway.) Now at 11 1/2, he is unable to go on walks of more than about half a mile (and we do that slowly), and I need to carry him downstairs each morning. I asked my vet about this. He suggested testing for Lyme's disease just to rule that out. Well it turns out that Bob does have Lymes disease. The medicine for Lymes has made him feel better generally, but unfortunately he is still having problems with his hips. Long walks and coming down the stairs are still a problem. I'm talking to the vet about where we go from here, and it looks like we will continue using pain meds. At his age, I'm not expecting any miraculous cures. My sweet boy.

Not sure if any of this would apply to your situation. But I do think that sitting with a leg out is a sign that something is not as it should be. My guess is that it is something minor that you will just live with. A good vet should be able to guide you. I have a terrific vet and have appreciated his skill as a diagnostician over the years. One of the things I like about him is that he does not order tests unless they are necessary. His "wait and see" approach has worked well for me in a couple of situations. In your case, Xrays might give your doctor a better idea about what's going on. But I'd ask whether the results are going to make any difference in the treatment. Or is it best to just wait and see? Your vet should be able to advise.

Can't seem to upload the second photo. But you get the idea...


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

My last standard sat like that as a youngster and developed hip dysplasia. She used to sit practically on her tail with her legs splayed out, too (much like Peppersb's pic). At around 7 years old on she had problems, She stopped running or doing other physical activities at around 8. She passed away quite crippled at 11. This doesn't mean your dog does have hip dysplasia, but I knew the exact position you are talking about. Building up muscle and health will help. Also, when he runs if he does lots of running where the rear legs move together, that can be another sign of hip dysplasia. 

That being said, there isn't anything you can really do about hip dysplasia. It is possible there is another issue going on like: loose ligaments, a hip issue in one hip only, conformation like hips that are placed a bit off so the leg doesn't fall quite right, or muscle wasting from malnutrition so the legs aren't held up due to lack of tone. If your dog isn't uncomfortable, it could just be the way he is put together and not HD at all. Since there isn't much you can do about it, unless he starts limping or seemingly in pain, you could just let it slide as the cute way he sits. If you really want to know you could pay for a hip xray. 

Find a vet who does OFA hips and you won't likely need sedation and they are very efficient with the xray and the vets knowledgeable in reading them. 

My current girl has excellent preliminary hips per her OFA hip xray. She sits with her legs close to her body like this:


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Henry sits like this!

I honestly don't know the answer. Maybe it means the hips are lax? The correlation between hip laxity and the development of hip dysplasia is not 100%, though the idea is that higher degrees of laxity do predict hip dysplasia as is the point of the PennHip exam.


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## MamaTiff (Sep 23, 2011)

Darby sits like that too. I have been silently worried since I got her. Hopefully it doesn't cause her much pain in the future. For now she jumps, runs, hops, plays and all without issue or pain.


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## Milliekins (Mar 31, 2012)

*Pics*

First of all I have to say how absolutely gorgeous your dogs are! So pretty!

I've taken some pictures today of Millie sitting kinda sideways on her hip. I am trying to upload them on here but not sure if it's working. Apologies for the muddy Millie - needless to say she is due a bath again!

When she sits up "properly" (with both knees close in to her body) her back legs are a lot closer together. In the photos you guys posted it looks like when your dogs sit their back legs are almost out at the side, certainly wider than the front legs. Millie's back legs are much more in the middle, and you can see her back paws together between her front paws.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

outwest said:


> That being said, there isn't anything you can really do about hip dysplasia.


This is not true. There is TPO if the dog is diagnosed at an early age (usually before 10 months old). It is not cheap, but it is an option.

ACVS - Triple Pelvic Osteotomy

I'm not saying this would be appropriate in the OP's case, as it seems her dog is not exhibiting pain or lameness, but just pointing it out.


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## peepers (Apr 13, 2012)

*Agree*

I know of owners who have had the surgery done even when breeders have offered to take pups back.


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## Milliekins (Mar 31, 2012)

*Trying again with photos*

Have had to figure how to resize photos so hopefully this will work..

These aren't good photos at all (apologies!) but just trying to show how she sits. The pink photo is her sitting "properly" but when her back paws close together in the middle.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Hmmm.....in the pink one her feet are touching, so that isn't quite right, either. 

You know, if she isn't having any pain, she runs and plays, she is adorable (yes) and you don't plan to breed her, maybe you should let it slide? She doesn't sit quite right so she may have some kind of issue. It is just as likely to be a hip placement issue rather than hip degeneration. She is also a puppy. Puppies are notorious for growing unevenly (front taller than back taller) which could also be accounting for it. 

When you have some extra money lying around, who don't you have her hips xrayed?


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## Liafast (Apr 9, 2011)

I had a newfie whose hip were real bad....Its been years ago so I don't remember how she sat but when she laid down she always went down front feet first. When she walked on concrete the top of her nail scrapped the concrete and you could see the wear on them.


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## Milliekins (Mar 31, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice, and photos. It's all really helpful.

I've come to the conclusion that Millie doesn't sit or run quite "properly", but she absolutely loves being outdoors running about, up and down banks, playing chase with other dogs, jumping over logs and streams, and she shows no sign of pain or wanting to stop (nor does she ever really want to come inside again apart from to get her biscuit!). So I think for now I'll keep an eye on her but not worry about it and next time we go to the vets we'll see about checking further, unless of course she shows any sign of pain or if things were to get worse in the mean time.

I'm guessing this could be the reason she ended up a rescue dog maybe, if her hips aren't quite right. But I am more than happy to have her  :smile:


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