# found a breeder in my state!!



## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

akbirdy said:


> ready to go home the first week of September!!


Do you mean "December"???!!!  I can tell you're excited! Congratulations!! We just welcomed our red poodle princess into our home on October 25th - and I'm STILL as excited today as I was then! Yes... PICTURES PLEASE!!


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

Congratulations, I can't wait to see the pictures of little darlings. Did you mean they are ready to go the first week of December, as September has long passed.


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## Evik (Sep 2, 2009)

Congratulations on your new puppy :cheer2:



akbirdy said:


> Thanks all for the great info I have gotten on here along the way... I think the breeder was impressed on how much I knew


I feel the same :hail:


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

OH I'm so happy for you, what an exciting time! Can't wait to see the cutie.


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## akbirdy (Sep 15, 2009)

Yes yes DECEMBER! Haha... ya I can't wait till September. :doh:


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Congrats!!!!!


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

I am soooo happy for you  !!!! Can't wait to see that precious baby !!!

What state you are in Akbirdy : )) ???


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## akbirdy (Sep 15, 2009)

wishpoo said:


> I am soooo happy for you  !!!! Can't wait to see that precious baby !!!
> 
> What state you are in Akbirdy : )) ???



We are in Washington... just moved from Alaska (AKbirdy)


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## akbirdy (Sep 15, 2009)

Here are some pictures the breeder just sent me... she said she's only gotten to some of their face shavings... I honestly like them furry at this age!! Unfortunately she didn't say much about about what pup is what... I know she mentioned the apricot and one red female that she thinks would be good for our family with a 4 year old...


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

Oh I adore that apricot! They are both really cute.


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## akbirdy (Sep 15, 2009)

Do you think the two that look like apricot are the same dog?? Are all the red ones without shaven faces the same dog?? Haha, they look like it to me, and I was wondering if they were since she had mentioned she had two in particular that she thought would fit our family. I was hoping a more trained eye could tell... or I could just calm down and wait till Sunday when I get to meet them!!


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

akbirdy said:


> Do you think the two that look like apricot are the same dog?? Are all the red ones without shaven faces the same dog?? Haha, they look like it to me, and I was wondering if they were since she had mentioned she had two in particular that she thought would fit our family. I was hoping a more trained eye could tell... or I could just calm down and wait till Sunday when I get to meet them!!


Okay the two apricot dogs aren't the same dog. One is very light with darker ears, which later that is a very stunning color, and the other is almost a faded red but med. shade apricot. The first two reds look like the same dog and the last two reds look like the same dog because they both have the white on the chest in the same spot.


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## akbirdy (Sep 15, 2009)

Ya I think your right... I love those red ears on the apricot too! Does that normally stay? I'll have to google pictures and see if I can find some adults like that. Super pretty. I was hesitant about getting a lighter dog, we live 2 blocks from the beach and I've heard (on here I think??) that white dogs can get "stained"? Just not sure how much harder it would be to keep a lighter dog nice and clean looking... coming from a complete newbie to poodles here. I just remembered we had a white American Eskimo growing up that never had a problem staying clean looking. So maybe that answers my question.


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

Well, apricot isn't white so although it's a lighter color I think you'd be okay. I wouldn't let my dog swim in salt water daily but that's just me. Plus you can buy whitening shampoo and that really cleans the coat to brighten it up. 

I'm not sure if the ears stay red but they do stay darker than the rest.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Very sweet! I wish you many, many happy, healthy years together. Congratulations!


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

I am not certain that these guys are registered ? I do not think she has papers just an FYI


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

bigredpoodle said:


> I am not certain that these guys are registered ? I do not think she has papers just an FYI


Uh oh.... Find out about this. Do not take a puppy if the papers are not there when you go to pick up and pay. 

You may not care about papers, BUT if this breeder was sold dogs on AKC Limited Registration, that means that she was not supposed to and agreed not to breed her dogs. Please, please do not reward people who go behind other breeder's backs and breed dogs that were sold as pets on spay and neuter agreements!!!!!! 

Along those same lines..... have the breeding parents been tested? How old are the breeding parents?


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

I have to agree. Check into it .


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

cbrand said:


> Uh oh.... Find out about this. Do not take a puppy if the papers are not there when you go to pick up and pay.
> 
> You may not care about papers, BUT if this breeder was sold dogs on AKC Limited Registration, that means that she was not supposed to and agreed not to breed her dogs. Please, please do not reward people who go behind other breeder's backs and breed dogs that were sold as pets on spay and neuter agreements!!!!!!
> 
> Along those same lines..... have the breeding parents been tested? How old are the breeding parents?


they have not


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

bigredpoodle said:


> they have not


OH ugh, not good.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

I am so sorry


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

bigredpoodle said:


> I am so sorry


Oh don't be sorry for me. They weren't for me.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

bigredpoodle said:


> they have not


Not tested? So... no testing and likely they were sold dogs on a spay and neuter agreement that they turned around and bred anyway? 

Wait my head is spinning.

Do not buy a dog from these people. Do not reward this type of behavior. God! This is exactly why we need breeding legislation.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

They're gorgeous puppies hopefully everything works out perfectly for you ^_^

I know we shouldn't condone this sort of breeding ((if is what you all think it might be)) but isn't it better to take a puppy from a situation that might not be ideal and give it an amazing home?

and I agree Cbrand, there needs to be some sort of legislation on breeding in this country.
even on the people who are "reputable" breeders
a limit to how many litters permitted a year


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

Sometimes if it is not easy for them to sell the puppies... They will hesitate to do it again .


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Keithsomething said:


> I know we shouldn't condone this sort of breeding ((if is what you all think it might be)) but isn't it better to take a puppy from a situation that might not be ideal and give it an amazing home?


Absolutely not!!! This simply creates a market and breeders like this will breed again. If they bought a Poodle on a limited registration then they agreed to not breed it. They basically stole a breeding dog and or are breeding a dog that is NOT breeding quality!

My contract says that if you breed a Poodle that I sell on Limited Registration, I can take back the dog and ask for substantial damages. Does anyone know where these breeding Poodles came from. The original breeder might like a phone call. I know I would!


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

I can understand that, 
Neko ((our lab/poodle mix)) was the result of that
the breeder had this BRILLIANT idea that if she bred an "F1 Labradoodle" to her female standard it would make the PERFECT puppy...unfortunately it didn't so we adopted Neko from the local shelter where 5 out of his 9 puppies were still at =\ ((when we got him last February))

I'm not sure if the lady still breeds but I like to think the guilt she feels for those puppies has made her rethink breeding anything ever again


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

cbrand said:


> Absolutely not!!! This simply creates a market and breeders like this will breed again. If they bought a Poodle on a limited registration then they agreed to not breed it. They basically stole a breeding dog and or are breeding a dog that is NOT breeding quality!
> 
> My contract says that if you breed a Poodle that I sell on Limited Registration, I can take back the dog and ask for substantial damages. Does anyone know where these breeding Poodles came from. The original breeder might like a phone call. I know I would!


It would be considered a breach of contract ((if your contracts were notarized)) most breeders forget that step so most contract mean nothing in the courts =]
mine is one of them my dad looked at my contract when I brought it home and told me he hoped nothing was wrong with my dog because there was nothing ((other than small claims court)) I could do if it were sick

and I agree giving them a clientele isn't right...but we don't know their situation to pass judgments on them


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Keithsomething said:


> They're gorgeous puppies hopefully everything works out perfectly for you ^_^
> 
> I know we shouldn't condone this sort of breeding ((if is what you all think it might be)) but isn't it better to take a puppy from a situation that might not be ideal and give it an amazing home?
> 
> ...


OMG!! I could not agree more. We have two breeders in Ontario, both mentioned on various threads here, who breed ridiculous numbers of litters per year. One in particular, is looking at eighteen litters over a 24 month period. This is just ridiculous, and those litters are clearly posted on their web sites, and people STILL buy from them!! I guess it`s true...when people decide they want a puppy, they want it yesterday, and these folks have a market the rest of us do not have.The fact is that when a person checks out their sites, there are ALWAYS puppies available of different colours and that seems to turn people`s cranks because this means they do not have to wait. Something is ALWAYS available!!! The pups are registered and most of the parents health tested, but the sheer volume would have alarms and sirens going off in my head!!


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

I have to admit I was one of those people who couldn't wait to get my puppy so I took a very IMMATURE step in getting her by going with the fastest easiest...and cheapest way

but my next standard ((circa summer 2012)) will be well thought out I've already started looking at breeders checking people off the list and adding some

but if someone has the resources to take care of a puppy ((albeit out of a not so hot situation)) why not let them enjoy that puppy?


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> OMG!! I could not agree more. We have two breeders in Ontario, both mentioned on various threads here, who breed ridiculous numbers of litters per year. One in particular, is looking at eighteen litters over a 24 month period. This is just ridiculous, and those litters are clearly posted on their web sites, and people STILL buy from them!! I guess it`s true...when people decide they want a puppy, they want it yesterday, and these folks have a market the rest of us do not have.The fact is that when a person checks out their sites, there are ALWAYS puppies available of different colours and that seems to turn people`s cranks because this means they do not have to wait. Something is ALWAYS available!!! The pups are registered and most of the parents health tested, but the sheer volume would have alarms and sirens going off in my head!!


I agree 100% people can not wait they want it now or never. I had a feeling the puppies posted was probably from a not so good breeder, Its not like there is a sea of good red breeders anyways lol


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

Where do these puppies go if someone doesn't buy them? I hate that they bred this litter without the consent of the original breeders of these dogs. It really makes it a lot harder for those of us that are honest to get a really good quality puppy because breeders don't want to trust anyone.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

WE do not know that this is the situation for sure. But these puppies will find homes. She needs to price them as tho they are pets with no papers 500.00 or so would be fair and she will sell them. BTW this is her second or third litter


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

that is awful that this breeder could potentially be ...pardon my language... screwing so many families who just want to bring a another member home.

I know personally thats how I felt about Elphie I felt like the breeder REALLY let me down but oh well "alls well that ends well'


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

bigredpoodle said:


> WE do not know that this is the situation for sure. But these puppies will find homes. She needs to price them as tho they are pets with no papers 500.00 or so would be fair and she will sell them. BTW this is her second or third litter


This is another thing that bugs me is the pricing on BYB puppies with parents with no health testing! They are pricing them at $1000-$1500! It's mind boggling that you can pay that ($1500) for a show quality puppy from a highly reputable breeder that's tested most of a 3 generation pedigree. 

I ran across a parti breeder that had pretty parti puppies and she had no titles on the parents and was asking $1800. Well, it's just me I guess but I don't think you deserve that much money for a puppy when you haven't proven the parents. I guess that sounds kind of snobby but I certainly wouldn't pay it.


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## akbirdy (Sep 15, 2009)

How can you find all this out?? I'm really confused... I did talk to her once on the phone, for a very long time... she sounded like she only breeds once in a while, her child went away for collage and she had the empty nest syndrome. After her telling me she likes to meet the families, and she wont sell to anyone, it made me think she wasn't a puppymiller, she really wanted to know a lot about me. I'll ask her about the registration, really after all she had to say I just assumed they were, but had planned on talking to her about it once we met her.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

KPoos said:


> Where do these puppies go if someone doesn't buy them? I hate that they bred this litter without the consent of the original breeders of these dogs. It really makes it a lot harder for those of us that are honest to get a really good quality puppy because breeders don't want to trust anyone.


Best case scenario they go into rescue where they are spayed and placed. Worst case.... they go into puppy mills and other BYB programs.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

maybe she isn't a BYB akbirdy 
I think cbrand ((and all the other lovely breeders here)) as breeders just want to uphold the standard that they strive for in their everyday lives and thats VERY commendable! 
but hopefully she isn't =\ ((a BYB that is))
...

the way I see it is...if you want a puppy from this lady, and you don't see a problem with her breeding habits get your companion and show it all the love and affection you can ^_^


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

I agree make sure that you are paying the price for an untested dog tho. If she has nothing to show you such as OFA certifiable test or a CERF not the form but certifiable stuff then you are risking buying a dog that may or may not be healthy. so pay accordingly ..


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## akbirdy (Sep 15, 2009)

I just emailed her, will let you guys know how she responds... I can't tell you how crushed I'm feeling right now. I was (obviously) excited to have a breeder in drivable distance so I could meet the parents, the puppies and see how they have been raised before buying, something I really wanted.... but not sure how this will end out.  

Thanks everyone, I know you are all just trying to help.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

bigredpoodle said:


> I agree make sure that you are paying the price for an untested dog tho. If she has nothing to show you such as OFA certifiable test or a CERF not the form but certifiable stuff then you are risking buying a dog that may or may not be healthy. so pay accordingly ..


Bingo please do not pay a high price if she did not health test these dogs.


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

akbirdy said:


> I just emailed her, will let you guys know how she responds... I can't tell you how crushed I'm feeling right now. I was (obviously) excited to have a breeder in drivable distance so I could meet the parents, the puppies and see how they have been raised before buying, something I really wanted.... but not sure how this will end out.
> 
> Thanks everyone, I know you are all just trying to help.


Don't be crushed. We can't make your decision for you. This is completely up to you and what you feel comfortable doing.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

I am so sorry ?!


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

don't get down akbirdy <33
you'll find an amazing puppy for you and your family whether it comes from this particular breeder or not


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Chin up!!! Wait until you hear from the breeder - she may have all the answers you seek! If, after communicating with her, you're not comfortable with her answers - you can at least make an educated decision one way or the other... Knowledge is power - just get the facts (maybe you'll get a good "deal" on the puppy if she knows she can't pull the wool over your eyes!)


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## akbirdy (Sep 15, 2009)

No no no not crushed because of you guys, just crushed that this breeder is looking like she's not all I hoped for... She emailed and did say "the litter is not registered at this time" blah blah... I'm unsure if I'll go meet the pups this Sunday or not.


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

Honestly if it were me I wouldn't bother with someone that didn't even register the litter.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

If you do not have the papers on the dogs you cannot egister the litter I am so sorry 
akbirdy  Did you ask if she was willing to sell for less?


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

So sorry Akbirdy . It is very frustrating when we discover that we were deceived - but it happened to me even when I talked with people who had 10 Ch in their "resume" !!!!!!:scared: I found many times that they lied about test results - either if they were done OR what was the result !!!!! 

I many times went in circles thinking WHAT THE HECK _ I might as well go with BYB than - RIGHT !!!!??? I have to be honest that many days I still wonder if it is better to be "shaven" off 2000 $ with "maybe" all tests done or 800$ with no tests done :fish:

I hate that I do not have the perfect answer for you :smow:. I would be afraid to buy a puppy without at least CERF and Hips done - but it is me *sigh...


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Regardless of price, if she bought a Poodle with Limited Registration then she was NOT SUPPOSED TO BREED THE DOG! Many breeders have a much different pricing structure for breeding dogs vs. spayed pet dogs. If she paid a pet price, then it is like she is stealing from the original breeder she bought the dog from.

Just a note about the different price. This always bugged me. It is like saying if you pay $1000 more, then suddenly your Poodle is somehow breeding quality. But... that is another conversation.

Anyway....would you pay less for an Ipod off the back of a truck knowing that it most likely stolen?


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

I agree w/ Cbrand, no papers= no deal. What possible reason could there be for not having the litter registered? Many breeders (BYBs, puppymiller and reputable breeders) manage to get their litters registered just fine and if this person has bred a litter before, she knows how things work. It's completely up to you, but it would be a shame for you to pay big bucks for an untested, unregistered puppy. JMO, but puppies like that shouldn't cost anymore than a pound puppy. W/ the pound puppy, you usually get free vaccinations and spay/neuter. 

As for what happens to the puppies that don't sell, ideally the breeder ends up discounting them to the point that they lose money. Since these people are usually motivated by cash, losing money is enough to convince them that breeding isn't the best get rich quick plan.

I think anyone who would buy a dog on limited registration and/or a spay/neuter contract and then breed it, is a seriously unethical person. I would never want to buy a dog from someonelike that. If they will screw over the breeder they got their dogs from, they will screw over a puppybuyer.


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

Stuff like this really irritates me. It's dishonest and then they will play on someone's guilt because of the cute faces of the puppies. Do you mind disclosing how much they are asking for a puppy?


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

I agree with Harley chick the motivation here is certainly not to improve the breed. i have a bad taste in my mouth for th not registering the puppies. I feel like this is the worst kind of BYB and knowing that she has had other litters makes it worse. I am sorry to say. That at 1200.00 and 1500.00 she should at least have papers if not testing. It is expensive to test.. 
If you have not any expenses then why the high price? 
you have to go with your heart and do what is best for you .


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

I really wonder what is the price too ??? It would be really ridiculous to pay that amount of money for untested dog and with no papers !!!

It never occurred to me that she might be breeding dogs that were sold on "non-breeding" contract :wacko: I thought that BYB just do not have any contracts whatsoever to begin with - that they also buy their dogs from BYBs who got dogs from BYBs and so forth. There are poodle breeders who do sell pups with breeding rights - right ???? I know that we are talking about completely low quality poodles - but still - I found many on the net that sell spoos with papers and with breeding rights !!! So - if somebody buys a poodle of that kind - than it is up to that person to register puppies or NOT register - isn't it ? I am really trying to learn something here - sorry for my BYB breeding practices ignorance (*blush ...blush...) .

I would never buy from unethical person - that is for sure - BYB OR the top breeder :arrogant (2):


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Unethical breeders (I not neccessarily talking about the one akbirdy is speaking with) charge that for untested, unregistered puppies b/c they can. People pay it! If you can charge $1800 and get it, why ask $500? Some petstores are charging $3-5K for "teacup" puppies, with iffy pedigrees(ConKC/APRI), straight off some midwestern puppyfarm. Why: b/c people pay! Legislation sounds great, but we can't even enforce anti-cruelty and leash laws. Puppymills are already licensed and look at the garbage they get away with.

Wishpoo, I think people are starting to wise up. BYBs know "Champion Bloodlines" means more money and more credibility. We know one CH four generations back means very little but most people are impressed by that. My guess is BYBs buy dogs on s/n contracts and limited registration, for the same reason educated buyers do. They are getting healthier, better quality dogs. Some people feel they should be able to make their money back. Other start out as good breeders and go off the reservation.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

It is not just here in america i guess from what I have read it is in our neighboring countries as well so where can it even begin . I remember when they wanted to shove the kennel licence down everyones throat , man that got ugly . It is a let the buyer beware type of thing. And in a thread such as this one it is hard to be quiet and let a lamb go to slaughter so to speak . There are lots of folks out there doing the right thing. And how can we talk / With our wallets and our mouths.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

bigredpoodle said:


> There are lots of folks out there doing the right thing. And how can we talk / With our wallets and our mouths.


Exactly! If people stopped buying puppies from pet stores and they stopped buying from BYBs and high volume breeders then these folks would slowing go away because breeding would be a money losing operation. 

But buyers don't care. I got a call from a woman last week asking for my help. She had been to breeder called ACC Ranch here in Colorado. She said that the dogs and multiple litters of puppies were kept in pens in a barn and that the smell was so bad she could not breath. She said the parent dogs were afraid of her and that the puppies were covered in their own filth. She saw a 14 week old puppy who had been returned who was put into a pen where he was kept outside even overnight.

The thing that truly fried her mind though? As she was arriving, she met some folks who were leaving who had just put a deposit down on a puppy. They didn't care. They wanted a Poodle and this woman had a bunch of them. You can not believe how many puppies this place sells. And the buyers just keep coming!


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

O M G ! That is a horrible story


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

What is wrong with people?


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

cbrand said:


> Exactly! If people stopped buying puppies from pet stores...


I go one step further... not only do I not buy live animals from pet stores (EVER!) I also never buy as much as a milkbone from stores who sell kittens or puppies... I'm sure they probably don't miss my measly $$, but if EVERYONE who had a moral disagreement with puppy mills would quit buying food, supplies, etc., at pet stores, they might get the message... (in my wildest dreams!!) I will patronize our local PetSmart (they do sell fish and small animals) mostly because they allow the local rescue that I provide doggie foster care for to showcase their adoptable cats in the store... but the stores who sell canines & felines?? Not a dime will I spend there!

ETA: Speaking of puppy mills like the one cbrand was describing... there is one here in ND where the owners are PROUD of their operation - they have a website and they advertise on our local online classified all the time... They have many, many different breeds and none look like they're good quality... Local humane organizations have tried to get them shut down, but they're not doing anything illegal (just immoral and stupid!!) and people BUY from them!!! That's what I don't understand! http://www.wildwindkennel.net/ Don't miss the photos of their yard & runs (GAG!!)


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

"None of our dogs are kept in wire bottomed cages. They all have large, open pens that are bedded on shredded paper. We often have people ask, "Are your puppies raised in your home"? ......and we tell them ..."If they were...they would be alone..as we are always in the kennel" !"
:doh::doh::doh::doh:


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

jak said:


> "None of our dogs are kept in wire bottomed cages. They all have large, open pens that are bedded on shredded paper. We often have people ask, "Are your puppies raised in your home"? ......and we tell them ..."If they were...they would be alone..as we are always in the kennel" !"
> :doh::doh::doh::doh:


Exactly!!!! WTH???? They're always in the kennel because they have too damn many dogs to keep in the house in the first place! And what kills me is they "WELCOME VISITORS"!!!


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

OH looking at the boxer out in the snow freaks me out. I can't believe they leave them out in the snow. Do they have inside kennels? I didn't look really closely. They all look like mutts. Nothing wrong with a pound puppy but they are making a living off of selling mutts.


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Well .... GASP .... that is more than disturbing ....I do not know even where to start :wacko::wacko::wacko:

It would be hilarious if it was not TRAGIC : (((((((((( !!!! It is a dog breeding compound and it is just unbelievable - TO PUT THAT ON THE WEB and having nobody closing that thing down :doh:

Oh boy ... I guess we never say "saw it all " till we die : ( !!!

May "favorite" is also : *"I used to groom dogs...and also board some for customers..so it seemed natural to raise a few puppies when we were asked for certain breeds. We have added the breeds that we enjoy and also that are popular. "
*
Geeeezzzz- this should be posted here with a "sticky" (the link ) as an example to allll newcomers to see and learn what are the "red flags" LMAO *cringe cringe *

UNBELIEVABLE !!!!


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

I actually can understand the people who put the deposit down on the pup in cbrands story...

its guilt it stabs you right in the heart...in all honesty thats how I got elphie I spoke to the breeder a few times and she invited me to her HOME and I was so disturbed at what I saw I had to have her IMMEDIATELY 
I took her home gave her 4 baths in one day ((the smell of ammonia was OUTSTANDING))

I got her like dirt cheap ((probably because she isn't registered to the best of my knowledge...which is QUITE extensive)) but I felt like it was my duty as a concerned person/buyer/consumer to take this poor little puppy and get her an amazing home

I know some of you probably don't agree with how I obtained my poodle...but alot of people share that same story ((and if we feel like we saved one dogs life why bash it?))

and everyone who shares my story...we all know we could have gone a better route to getting a standard... I just don't think we can chalk it all up to "can't wait to get one"


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

So sorry to hijack this link akbirdy... but at least the breeder you were talking to isn't the worst thing out there, eh?? I love North Dakota, but I am deeply ashamed to have something like Wild Wind within the confines of my state... And, truly??? They don't seem to understand how bad they really are... I had a teenage volunteer at the humane society I managed who posted some stuff on our online classifieds about Wild Wind being a puppy mill and they actually tried to prosecute him (I guess even if it's the truth, he couldn't be sayin' it!) sad, sad, sad...


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

"A BARGAIN !!! Litters" is reallly really MESSED up...event he awful breeder of mine didn't advertise like that
=\


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Keithsomething said:


> I actually can understand the people who put the deposit down on the pup in cbrands story...
> 
> its guilt it stabs you right in the heart...in all honesty thats how I got elphie I spoke to the breeder a few times and she invited me to her HOME and I was so disturbed at what I saw I had to have her IMMEDIATELY
> I took her home gave her 4 baths in one day ((the smell of ammonia was OUTSTANDING))
> ...


I'm sorry to have to say this and it is not directed at you personally. People need to understand. You do not save puppies when you buy from breeders like this. You instead create a market that drives the breeding of these puppies.

If anyone comes across a situation like this they should call Animal Control and the local Sheriff. Get breed rescue involved and if and when the dogs are confiscated, you can adopt them from rescue.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

I know it wasn't directed at me and I know you weren't being mean sharing that story 

I just can empathize with someone who feels the little twinge of guilt for leaving the pup there...

Elphie has a sister from her litter that her breeder got back in early November and it takes everything I can muster not to go buy her =\


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

cbrand said:


> I'm sorry to have to say this and it is not directed at you personally. People need to understand. You do not save puppies when you buy from breeders like this. You instead create a market that drives the breeding of these puppies.
> 
> If anyone comes across a situation like this they should call Animal Control and the local Sheriff. Get breed rescue involved and if and when the dogs are confiscated, you can adopt them from rescue.


What will animal control do or the local sheriff? If they dont see puppies in what they call a bad enviroment.

I support your opinion and share the same. I can also see how it could be tough to walk away..... but what grounds would there be?


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