# entropion



## poodlecrazy51 (Dec 31, 2012)

Just found out that the litter we have been waiting on has several puppies with entropion. Breeder will do the eyelid tack at about 5 weeks, then remove at 8 weeks, when puppies are going home. They explained this dam throws 1-3 puppies in each of her litters but has not had problems as those dogs mature. Has anyone had any experience like this? I am not really looking for opinions. That is for us to decide. But medical info, and others sharing their experience with a pup with this condition would be greatly appreciated. I am waiting to talk to our vet, as well, to see how this has gone with any of his clients.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Well my friend had her ****zu's done twice by the regular Vet, and when she was about to let them have a third go at it, I talked her into going to an ophthalmologist , and that surgery was successful. 
If I were you I would investigate the success rate of the procedure on such young, growing puppies. Since this would be a pre existing condition, even if you got health insurance for the pup, most eye problems would likely not be covered ever.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Well my friend had her* ****zu's *done twice by the regular Vet, and when she was about to let them have a third go at it, I talked her into going to an ophthalmologist , and that surgery was successful.
> If I were you I would investigate the success rate of the procedure on such young, growing puppies. Since this would be a pre existing condition, even if you got health insurance for the pup, most eye problems would likely not be covered ever.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Are you swearing again??? LOL.

Great post!

Personally, I'd stay clear of puppies with that condition. But like you say, that's for you to decide. Otherwise, I like Tiny's suggestions.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Are you swearing again??? LOL.
> 
> Great post!
> 
> Personally, I'd stay clear of puppies with that condition. But like you say, that's for you to decide. Otherwise, I like Tiny's suggestions.


Lol isn't funny how the website changes any word that has the letters in a "naughty" order!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Just another thought- if I were in your situation, really wanting the puppy, what I would ask my breeder (and I could because I have a long term relationship with her), would be to wait on the surgery, place the puppy free or greatly discounted, and allow me to take the pup to a specialist to have it done at the point that they think is most appropriate, rather then having her have anesthesia at 5 weeks and possibly needing more work after she grows....


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## poodlecrazy51 (Dec 31, 2012)

Thank you both for your feed back. I am sick to my tummy that this red flag came up at the 11th hour. I didnt appeciate her, oops I forgot to tell you. I will only have the pick of the last 2 females, so odds may not be good for us to get a healthy pup. I value both of your words. And I know I have to turn down a puppy with a health condition whether she feels it is no big deal or not. She will allow me 3days to have a vet evaluation. I will find an opthamologist, as well as my 2 different vet offices I use. And only if the pup is an outstanding individual in all other ways in particular her temperament. I have a 2nd breeder I have talked to for years. We really click. She knows I am on this list. She called me regarding her soon to be born litter of blacks and whites. And was willing to hold a female for me
until I assessed this first litter. I didn't want another black, and white though breathtakingly beautiful did not thrill me on our 9 acre Ohio horse farm.....but I am trying to not le color be any factor and go for health, intelligence, and firstly, temperament....I cant believe what I have gone through, just trying to find a puppy to love, since our spoo died this summer and our other one as well as my family are so sad to loose our wonderfiul old spoo. a big sigh...


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

LOL, it is actually spelled shih-tzu but I think its funny that it corrects the other spelling! I had to learn how to spell it because when I worked at a groom shop we abbreviated everything, and the four letter word it corrected was what I was using. It didn't look good to customers if they looked at our chart and we called their dog that, so the abbreviation became "shih".


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Oh, hard decision, but who is paying for the specialist appointment?? I sure would make sure the breeder is paying. You shouldn't have to pay for her decision to breed a dog she KNOWS produces this problem.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

poodlecrazy51 said:


> Thank you both for your feed back. I am sick to my tummy that this red flag came up at the 11th hour. I didnt appeciate her, oops I forgot to tell you. I will only have the pick of the last 2 females, so odds may not be good for us to get a healthy pup. I value both of your words. And I know I have to turn down a puppy with a health condition whether she feels it is no big deal or not. She will allow me 3days to have a vet evaluation. I will find an opthamologist, as well as my 2 different vet offices I use. And only if the pup is an outstanding individual in all other ways in particular her temperament. I have a 2nd breeder I have talked to for years. We really click. She knows I am on this list. She called me regarding her soon to be born litter of blacks and whites. And was willing to hold a female for me
> until I assessed this first litter. I didn't want another black, and white though breathtakingly beautiful did not thrill me on our 9 acre Ohio horse farm.....but I am trying to not le color be any factor and go for health, intelligence, and firstly, temperament....I cant believe what I have gone through, just trying to find a puppy to love, since our spoo died this summer and our other one as well as my family are so sad to loose our wonderfiul old spoo. a big sigh...


Oh, I don't like that oops I forgot to tell you either - but at least she did tell you because you know that there are those who would not say a word...
Now, if you do not mind, here is another piece of unrequested advice - from what you said, you are emotionally on edge - taking this puppy for 3 days, spending hundreds at your vet and a specialist is going to make it incredibly difficult to give her back - even if you can bring yourself to do it, it will be yet another loss - if I were you, I would save my money and my heart for the second breeder who it seems like you will have the positive experience that you need with...



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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> LOL, it is actually spelled shih-tzu but I think its funny that it corrects the other spelling! I had to learn how to spell it because when I worked at a groom shop we abbreviated everything, and the four letter word it corrected was what I was using. It didn't look good to customers if they looked at our chart and we called their dog that, so the abbreviation became "shih".


Funny that auto correct does not know that!


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## frecklesdmk (Mar 27, 2013)

We just had our new spoo's eye done last month when she was spayed and had a gastropexi. 

Spoos aren't common here and they command high prices. We had just lost our spoo to bloat and our other one several months earlier with severe arthritis. Our house was so empty. We found a litter and the only one left had entropian. The owner told us about it ahead of time and had already taken the puppy to the eye specialist. He recommended putting a lubricant in the eye until she was older, seeing if it corrected and if not, surgery. 

It wasn't a deal breaker for us because we knew ahead of time, she was already evaluated by a specialist, and she was the only one in the litter. This was not a professional breeder but a family that had one litter and was spaying mom after the litter. 


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## Spoobark (Jul 17, 2013)

Not sure which breeder is your 2nd option, but have you talked with Carol Dean at De La Passion she is about 20 minutes east of Cleveland. Also Wendy Penn at By Request she is in Columbus. They both have amazing dogs, and do all the health testing that you would want to see. Check out the attached link if interested
Breeders
Good luck with your decision, I'm sure it won't be an easy one.


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## poodlecrazy51 (Dec 31, 2012)

I have both breeders in my favorites. and visited wendy penn years ago at the vet office /grooming place, if i am not confusing her with someone else. i saw a litter of blacks and momma was a gorgeous white /light cream named marilyn. This was 6-12 years ago. i never forgot that gorgeous dam. i will check them out. oh, i just remembered, marilyn was maybe at the breeder kittles or ripples or ripley? and ripley could have been the street. i am out of state without my poodle file....ugh. thank you for the suggestions. so far, i havent been able to get breeder to tell me what pups have the entropion...not a good sign...so i am hesitating to send the signed contract and hefty deposit....


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Why start your happy relationship with a new Spoo with problems, when you have sources for a healthy one? I worked as a vet tech many years ago, and the eye surgery is a pretty minor operation, but like any other surgery, there is always the risk of complications. I personally would rather not deal with one right off the bat and would opt for a pup that is physically healthy from the start! Go with your 2nd choice.... JMO


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## brownlikewoah (May 3, 2012)

I would seriously consider passing on the puppy. If this breeder is knowingly breeding a dog who passes on this problem, what other health problems do they also not mind passing along? 


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## cliffdweller (Jan 31, 2011)

Rain developed entropion in her right eye, but it was later in life (so it is uncertain whether she had a genetic predisposition for the condition or whether it developed due to an injury of some sort). We spent almost a year medicating and had a tack done unsuccessfully. Finally had surgery to both eyes. All of this was done by an Ophthalmologist. We had a good result.

There is lots of information online. I cannot remember whether it is better to have treatment early, but there is a concern that the condition can cause damage to the cornea if left untreated. We kept very close watch on Rain's eye through the various treatments leading up to her surgery.

I would not recommend having a general practitioner perform these procedures unless you have information that she is very experienced and successful in this regard.


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## poodlecrazy51 (Dec 31, 2012)

We don't know yet, whether any puppies have entropion. I really just wanted to gather medical data, and experiences anyone has had with it as a puppy born with it. I will come to my own opinion and I will make a good decision when I have a lot of information. My 2 different vet offices have had many cases of it, and have not had any issues with it. I will just wait and see what pups have it if any, and make a decision at that time. My breeder is as reputable and honest as any breeder can be. I trust her. She DID divulge it, in her contract, I just didn't get it right away, because we didn't put a deposit down, which would have gotten us the contract. We went on her 2nd list. She is not hiding anything. My 2 vet offices are very impressed that she treats it right away at her expense. And will be spaying that female. She only breed this female a few times, as the litter was so successful, and people have come back for more pups for her. That is a huge testament to her breeding practices...I also just found out, that my other breeder with a litter has a female for me she is saving until I decide on this 1st litter. So I have happy options, and feel, we hopefully with have a puppy this fall. It has been a very very sad summer for us, losing 2 of our 3 spoos. We are devastated, as is our 6 year old spoo girl, still not eating well or wanting to play much. Thus my thread, "cross fingers.....". I appreciate the anecdotes of surgeries and situations posted by those that have experienced entropion.


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## poodlecrazy51 (Dec 31, 2012)

Sorry, I should have proof read and corrected all my typos....and for the last month, I have been taking care of daughter and new born, across country, and posting on a teeny tablet, very very sleep deprived, and unsuccessful in proofreading and editing. so lots of apologies for my bad typing skills lately. It is very good to be home, though I miss my kid and beautiful new granddaughter. But my spoo cried and whined and hugged and kissed me a long time when I finally flew home last nite at midnight...made me cry and whine...


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