# Your Dog is Matted, You Don't Comb Him.



## Tiffany (Feb 13, 2014)

I'm extremely new to the poodle community so I feel a little ignorant about this. 

The other day I took him to some groomer shop I had never been before just because my dog was rolling around in the mud earlier and I just wanted him to have a quick bath.

I brush his hair every 2-3 days... He still has some puppy hair and it isn't that long. But his hair was damp when I brought him in, not to mention dirt and twigs so on and so fourth. 

The groomer then came out took my dog out of my boyfriends hands( I yelled at my BF for that) and said he cannot do anything with him because my dogs hair was completely matted. 







HUH?!? This is his hair when it dried and I picked out everything. 

I said okay "fine I'll bathe him and comb him myself because he lets me comb him" 

Then the cashier said no no no we can bathe him just not cut his hair.

What?? I'm standing there like how are you going to comb his hair and there saying no we just give bath we won't touch hair and I'm like his hair is going to get knotted if you don't comb it after a bathe and their like no it won't we'll do it. And the groomer is holding my dog a VERY HARSHLY running it in quick jerks on his hair and he's whining a little bit. And the groomer is like see he doesn't like it I can't groom him. But the cashiers are like no we'll just bathe him and give him sanitary clip??

Excuse my French but what the hell??!??

Is this normal, are some groomers lazy... Would they rather just shave it off... I have curly hair and it's not the easiest to comb but it's not matted either. Now I'm just confused how do I know the difference between an honest groomer and a bad one...


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

It is my experience and understanding that most groomers don't deal with matts. It takes a LOT of time and it's miserable for the dog, which sets the dog up for hating going to the groomers. You want the dog to associate the groomer with a pleasant enough time.

I brush my dogs every day and comb through all the way to the skin, every square inch because it's so easy for them to get matts or tangles and it happens very fast. Every 2 or 3 days isn't enough, at least with longer haired dogs. Maurice is clipped very close, so he can go every other day. But Matisse, in his long hair needs it every day. My groomer said every other day so I don't pull out so much hair, but it gets matted if I go that long and the hair gets pulled out anyhow, so I do his every day. Plus, he's going through the coat change to adult hair. (a nightmare)

That groomer sounds rude though....could have explained a better. And I wouldn't put up with rough handling of your pup. Find another groomer. And just keep up with the bathing once a week or so and brushing/combing every day. You want to brush and comb through it, get all tangles out BEFORE you bathe, as the wet hair causes the tangles and knots to tighten. So, before and after a bath, brush/comb and every day between.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Definitely find another groomer, one that is gentle with your pup and prepared to explain things politely. But be aware that many, many people, when they first get a poodle, are convinced they are brushing thoroughly and end up with a matted dog. You need to first brush, then comb, taking care to get right down to the skin all over. You may already be doing this, but groomers see many dogs whose owners have not been shown the right method. Once the coat is matted, it is very painful to do anything other than shave it close and let it grow again.


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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

That groomer sounds like a jerk but I don't brush out full body mats either. I shave. It is most comfortable for the dog, and my wrists. Dematting a whole dog takes too much time and time is money plus it hurts the dog. I would find a groomer who is willing to educate you on how to brush/ comb out your dog daily instead of being rude.


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## Tiffany (Feb 13, 2014)

I know combing out matted hair is harmful to the dog but I don't believe my dog has matted hair... And it didn't make sense to me that they said they could bathe him but not cut his hair... I wish I had time to comb him more but I work full time because it's peak hours at my job. 

I have very curly hair myself and during summer when I was younger my hair would get matted from days of in an out of the beach and pool with no combing... 

I thought my dogs hair was perhaps a tad knotty but not at all matted.. 

I'm just confused what you groomers mean by matting...






this is what I think of. It doesn't have to be all over but I dunno I'm just confused....


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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

Tiffany said:


> I know combing out matted hair is harmful to the dog but I don't believe my dog has matted hair... And it didn't make sense to me that they said they could bathe him but not cut his hair... I wish I had time to comb him more but I work full time because it's peak hours at my job.
> 
> I have very curly hair myself and during summer when I was younger my hair would get matted from days of in an out of the beach and pool with no combing...
> 
> ...


That is very extreme matting, just like burns there are different types of matting. Some are extreme, like that picture, and some are more typical. I don't see matting like that often but when I do the dog usually has bruises from the mats pulling and constricting the skin


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

I used to be office manager at a groom shop. I checked in all the dogs and assessed their coats. Feeling a dogs coat for matting really is a skill. There were countless times people came in with their dogs and thought there was no matting, and looking at the dog there didn't appear to be any. But when you put your hands on the dog, it can just feel a little denser. Not the dread locks like in your picture. I would show the owners and try to have them feel what I was feeling and it was often very difficult for them to feel it. The best way I could show them was to take a comb and take it all the way to the skin and then have them try to comb. Many times they were just skimming the comb over the top, so the ends of the hair were not matted but deep down it was. 

This may not be the case with your dog, but I think you might want to stay open minded about possibly not brushing properly. Find a new groomer and have them show you how to brush. If you do it every day it really doesn't take much time.


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## Rachel76 (Feb 3, 2014)

Tiffany, I am a first time poodle owner too. Luckily I had a better experience at the groomers and I made sure to ask him to tell me if he found any mats. I have Hemi cut fairly short as she plays in lots of dirt and mud. Im sorry you and your dog had a bad experience. Whether your dog is actually matted or not the groomer handled your dog and you very poorly. I agree with you that the semi conflicting information you got was very strange. It's sounds to me like they were trying to get what ever money they could out of you. Very fishy, and very smart of you two to walk out of there.


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## Pluto (Jul 8, 2012)

Matted or not, this wasn't the groomer for you. I have to ask though, did you have an appointment or just do a walk in? Because standard poodles are not like other dogs, pretty much no groomer will do them as a walk in or without an appointment due to the time they take. It sounds like it would benefit you to find a good groomer that is willing to do a squeeze in bath and blow for established clients on a regular schedule.

I have found self serve dog washes are invaluable. My girl gets filthy, with stickers, foxtails, and mud completely inbedded in her poms. If I took her into a shop (even her regular groomer) they would be horrified by how bad she can get in even a two-hour hike when all the grasses are going to seed and would likely assume she was not brushed regularly. But I can throw her in a self serve wash, pick out the big stuff, soak her in shampoo and continue to pick while she marinates, do the same with conditioner, and then blow the remainder out while drying (using a silk finishing spray). The problem is that even though the brushing is minimal, it still really takes 2 hours to do it right, between washing/ soaking, picking, and fully drying, and she is in a miami/bikini cut so really it's just leg, tail, and head poms! And no, I don't spend two hours at the dog wash every time we go for a hike, but definitely after a week in the wild or a camping trip


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Learning how to comb all the way through takes practice. You can think you are getting everything but just be catching what is near the surface. You the comb or brush to part small sections of the hair and make sure you see clear down to the skin. Things can look ok on top and be terrible underneath.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Tiffany, my dog, Matisse is in a show coat...lots and lots of hair. I spend an hour at least every day working through his coat. His adult hair is coming in which makes it twice the nightmare. I go through multiple times with a comb after using a pin brush. I turn the dryer on him sometimes while I do it, which parts the hair so I can see right down in there. And I STILL miss places. It's amazing how you can think you've gotten everything and there are a few tiny little knots and if you don't get them, they turn into bigger knots the next day. It does take practice and a really systematic process.


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

I got read the riot act by our wonderful groomer the one time I brought Beau in with matted ears. Yes, I was mortified, but she was right to scold me, because I have done everything I can ever since to make sure that doesn't happen again!


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## Wild Kitten (Mar 13, 2014)

Tiffany said:


> I wish I had time to comb him more but I work full time because it's peak hours at my job.


It doesn't take that long to brush a dog with fairly short hair like your puppy has..... unless it is a show coat, it is easy to brush daily. Takes much longer when you do it less often.
On the picture you posted in your first post, your dogs hair is similar length to my Lucia's. 
It takes me around 5 minutes every day to brush + comb Lucia's hair.


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## Specman (Jun 14, 2012)

I think it really depends on the dogs coat and knowing how to brush properly. I rarely brush Max more the every 2-3 day but, I make sure to get down to the skin and check how I am doing with a comb. Check out YouTube for videos on line brushing. You really need the right technique. None of the groomers who have seen Max have ever found any mats when I have had him groomed.


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## MrsD2008 (May 26, 2014)

Call me stupid but can someone post photos of the comb they use and the pin brush. I think I know what they are, but I just want to make sure I am right..thanks x


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

MrsD2008 said:


> Call me stupid but can someone post photos of the comb they use and the pin brush. I think I know what they are, but I just want to make sure I am right..thanks x


This is a poodlecomb


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Pin brush

Ha, I finally got a picture to post! I will have to post Swizzle.


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## MrsD2008 (May 26, 2014)

Ah, ok, I was right, my pin rush is double sided. Is the black brush side any good, say for brush the face when short? Need to get a comb for when my pup comes home


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I have a double sided pin brush - I use the bristle side for the cat, who likes to be groomed! It might also be useful for getting your pup used to the idea of brushing in the first day or two, as it is very gentle, although it won't get through much poodle coat. I have found mine is not very good quality, though, as after a while the pins tend to bend. I use a Greyhound type comb (named for the original manufacturer, not because they are suitable for greyhounds), which is very similar to the one above but has half widely spaced pins, half narrower. They are easier to find than the poodle combs, and I like being able to do the final comb through with a comparatively fine comb.


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## Wild Kitten (Mar 13, 2014)

I don't use a pin brush, never had, I don't like them.... I use a slicker brush and a simple comb..... but my dog is not in show clip... never will be, so what I use it is perfect for what I need.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I tried with a slicker brush, but found it hard to use without scratching, and as I already had pin brushes for Sophy used those instead. I do have a hedgehog brush (a sort of nylon slicker with added bristles) which is useful for getting burrs out of Poppy's coat.


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## Wild Kitten (Mar 13, 2014)

Guess it also depends on the brand (type) of the slicker brush, I like this one, it is rounded and I don't scratch with it...... if I try some other types (which are widely sold in pet shops) I am not that keen on them. I only like this brand which is quite hard to find actually, you don't find them in shops, so it is either to buy them on line or on dog shows.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Wild Kitten said:


> Guess it also depends on the brand (type) of the slicker brush, *I like this one,* it is rounded and I don't scratch with it...... if I try some other types (which are widely sold in pet shops) I am not that keen on them. I only like this brand which is quite hard to find actually, you don't find them in shops, so it is either to buy them on line or on dog shows.


Were you going to post a link? I'd love to know. I have a fairly soft one but it could be softer still.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Were you going to post a link? I'd love to know. I have a fairly soft one but it could be softer still.


It's gone, but earlier when I read the thread it was a picture of a Universal Slicker. Those are nice. I really like the Chris Christensen round slicker.


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## BeckyM (Nov 22, 2013)

I use this slicker brush and it's very gentle. I rubbed it along my skin before trying it on Polly and it doesn't hurt. It does get a little static-y in the winter but it's inexpensive.


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## Wild Kitten (Mar 13, 2014)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Were you going to post a link? I'd love to know. I have a fairly soft one but it could be softer still.


I posted a picture in my earlier post (if you scroll up)  

But here it is again:


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## Specman (Jun 14, 2012)

I have a Millers Forge slicker that is very soft. Something like this:

Amazon.com : Millers Forge Stainless Steel Pins Designer Series Soft Slicker Pet Grooming Brush, Large : Millers Forge Dog Brush : Pet Supplies


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## Spoos+Ponies (Mar 26, 2014)

Thanks for the link specman. I just checked the price on amazon.ca. $18 on amazon.com, $94 on amazon.ca. Aaaaargh. Why is everything more expensive in Canada - it drives me nuts.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Is there any way someone in the states can buy it for you and then mail it to you???


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## MrsD2008 (May 26, 2014)

The mailing would bring the cost back up I fear. Thanks all


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## Spoos+Ponies (Mar 26, 2014)

I can actually just order from amazon.com. I've done that before, it just takes a little longer to get here. That is a crazy price difference, though.


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## Wild Kitten (Mar 13, 2014)

Have you try ebay?

In my experience ebay is usually cheaper than amazon...


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## Wild Kitten (Mar 13, 2014)

MrsD2008 said:


> The mailing would bring the cost back up I fear. Thanks all


Not really, the mail is not as expensive as those sellers make out... 

I have ordered things from ebay which were sent from the US and the mailing was fairly cheap... I really depends on each person how much they want to charge, if a friend sends it, they would probably only want their real cost reimbursed.


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## ItzaClip (Dec 1, 2010)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Were you going to post a link? I'd love to know. I have a fairly soft one but it could be softer still.


My absolute favorite for flexible soft slicker is paw brothers double sided slicker from Ryan's pets in USA. 
For my own poodle I have 6 different tools. Chris Christenson round slicker is soft. Also a cc pin thats ionic. 
A lot of when people are "brushing every day" and still having mats is either tools /technique/or dogs lifestyle and the hair length & grooming rotation need to be adjusted. 
Also grooming is not a regulated industry. So at any shop you will find inexperienced under educated groomers who don't have all the v wonderful equipment and knowledge to get knots out. 
I was taught to brush dog before bath and if it wasn't comb Worthy it was matted and had to be shaved. Well 12 years later and a heck of a lot education and investment in tools I don't consider it a Matt unless it is still there AFTER I bathe with recirc, soak in quality products, HV and hand fluff dry with my wall mounted ionic stand dryer. If I have to thinning shear it out after that it's a mat. 
Point is that the groomer could also have been inexperienced. Your pup could have been spiderweb knots from coat change or frolicking in mud. I have very few clients that truly brush dog properly, that's why there is professional groomers. 

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## loves (Jul 2, 2013)

Use a leave in spray when you brush out your dog too. Brushing dry hair will break it. Slicker brushes are not that harsh, you are brushing hair not skin. My favorite is Les Pooche brush and when Sully was younger I used CC pin brush with wooden pins because it was gentler. A pin brush really won't get through the coat. Spray a section of hair, about 4"x4" or so, brush it in layers with slicker, then go through it with comb. comb goes through easily? on to next section and from then on it is rinse and repeat. You can brush a dog and it will look all soft and fluffy on top while being matted underneath, the comb is the key. Slickers are much kinder in brushing out mats than pulling on them with a comb, and if the whole dog is matted, and doesn't brush out/blow out easily, off it comes. I have bloodied my own cockers trying to demat, too much in one spot will give you raw spots. Also, dematted coat is damaged coat and will only mat up worse the next time. I wouldn't even give a matted dog a bath and send it home matted. I just love it when I point out mats on a dog and the owner starts pulling it apart showing me how to get it out. Fine, take the dog home, get ALL the mats out and bring it back. Humanity before vanity is what a groomer should strive for.

Oh yea, as a groomer it is not my job to keep your dog unmatted when I only see him maybe every 4 weeks, but usually 8+ weeks in between grooms. That is the owner's job, if you want the groomer to keep your dogs coat unmatted, then the dog should be seeing the groomer once a week. Do you expect your hairdresser to keep your hair brushed out?


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## Pluto (Jul 8, 2012)

Groomers get to charge for the services they want to provide, but for me as a pet owner I use a groomer when I don't have the time to groom my dog myself - so I won't use a groomer that refuses to brush my dog out. There are groomers that are willing to pick out coats and give a good bath, condition , and blow a try and ones that prefer to limit their service to the more technical work (limited brushing, washing and blowing just to get a clean base for the cut). Just remember that because one groomer says they won't doesn't mean no groomer will, and if the groomer is used to your dog and knows they can get the tangles out during the bath and blow vs hours of brushing, they are going to be less freaked out when you bring a dog fresh in from the field, muddy and full of burrs.


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## loves (Jul 2, 2013)

Pluto, there is brushing a dog out and then there is being asked to brush out a mess. It often couldn't be done anyway and does not mean that the groomer is lazy if they won't put your dog through hours of "brushing out". Also for a groomer, time is money, so I guess if you are willing to pay a few hundred dollars for a groomer to spend all day tormenting your dog trying to demat it, then go for it. A good groomer knows what can be brushed out and what can't. It is so sad that so many poodle owners do not trust or even barely like groomers.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Spoos+Ponies said:


> Thanks for the link specman. I just checked the price on amazon.ca. $18 on amazon.com, $94 on amazon.ca. Aaaaargh. Why is everything more expensive in Canada - it drives me nuts.


Hi Spoos+Ponies, I think the price difference in part is down to the fact the Canadian seller is a private party and the US seller is amazon.com. I've seen similar price variances here on the US site before, sometimes surprisingly wide like this one.

Will amazon.com allow you to place your order at the US site and ship to yourself in Alberta?


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Spoos+Ponies said:


> I can actually just order from amazon.com. I've done that before, it just takes a little longer to get here. That is a crazy price difference, though.


Oops, sorry, just saw this. Glad you can order from the .com site .
I want to get one of the Miller Forge soft slickers in the small size, and also want to say I love my Chris Christensen Mark I small slicker--it's perfect for my tpoo and allows for great line brushing. Now I want to order the Paw Brothers double-sided one Itza mentioned too LOL! Also adore my super soft Madan pin brush.
I agree about avoiding dry brushing and as helpful as the pin and slicker brushes are, my metal comb is the bee's knees....of course I am a Poodle beginner so grain of salt on my suggestions!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Doggyman makes a nice slicker!! #1 All Systems, too.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

A COMB is one of the most important tools in your grooming arsenal. I use a CC curved Slicker brushes for I find Pin Brushes do nothing for me. Now if I am doing a "Brush out" between bathing then I always use a Spray. One of my favorites is Mane N' Tail Dematting spray. I do 1 section at a time starting with back leg at the paw, Spritz, use your dryer to seperate the hair, brush a section against the grain, comb down with the grain. Work yourself up the leg getting both the front part, rear & hock area. Then do your other hind leg, body etc.... & work yourself forward. Now if bath day shampoo, conditioner or oil, then while drying use same method by section, brush, comb & if a little matted area then Spray that section & work out.

As a groomer there are mats, matting, spider matting, sweater cast, dreadlock etc... I remove mats & some matting but all others are clipped down & coat re started. The picture that was posted is total & complete NEGLECT.

Personally if a dog is getting a bath then it must be brushed & combed out & fluffed. I think you need to find another groomer that not only understands Poodle coats but can hand you a comb if the groomer declares matting.

My own personal dogs I do not brush between their baths unless waiting for a client then I will get a leg, ear or TK combed out. Otherwise my dogs are bathed every 7-10 days & I don't have a matting problem.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I know that I am going to be the odd man out here, but I never use a comb on my girls - just line brush with a slicker, every 1-2 days, and they never mat.


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## Marcie (Aug 2, 2011)

Tiffany said:


> I'm extremely new to the poodle community so I feel a little ignorant about this.
> 
> The other day I took him to some groomer shop I had never been before just because my dog was rolling around in the mud earlier and I just wanted him to have a quick bath.
> 
> ...


GRAB YOUR DOG AND RUN LIKE HELL FROM THAT PLACE! Warn any friends with dogs not to use them. No this is not the norm, and you do not have to tolorate your dog being roughly treated. When she pulled his hair and he cried I would have snatched him away and slapped her face and asked her how she liked being hurt because that is exactly what she did to your dog. 

You are correct he should be brushed before he is bathed or the tangles he has will mat. Once he is bathed he should be dried and brushed. 

There are a lot of groomers out there, go in with your dog and talk to them, see how they handle your dog, ask if you can watch. If you don't get good vibes, go somewhere else until you find someone you feel comfortable leaving your little one with. 

By the way your pup is absolutely adorable!


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## kanatadoggroomer (Jan 24, 2010)

I'm a certified groomer with my master certification obtained on poodles.....people are often confused what matting is, so I explain that if a comb won't go through the coat, it is matted.....tangled in basic english. It is a steep learning curve to figure out how to care for poodle coats. Often a brush will go right over mats, but a comb never lies. I tell my poodle owners to throw out their brushes and use only a comb. I spend a lot of time showing owners how to comb and find a suitable style that suits the lifestyle of the owner and coat type of their dog. I find that the lighter the color of poodle, the easier they mat. More than a few mats, it is more humane for the dog to be shaved and start over. You can't pay me enough to torture your dog dematting extensively. You probably got a groomer who wasn't very tactful. Not a good experience for you as a new owner. On behalf of my industry, sorry 'bout that.


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## LauraRose (Dec 26, 2012)

I currently have Lula in a Miami style & typically brush/comb her every other day. I use CC round slicker & poodle butter comb - fantastic combo. 
I have a few other brands, and a pin brush too, but find they don't work as kindly on her coat. 
CC is definitely worth the investment, in my opinion. 

I find that Lula's front bracelets are the quickest to mat, and the most difficult for me to keep tangle-free. She tolerates grooming well, but most dislikes having her front paws handled, no matter for clipping, dremeling, shaving, brushing, etc. 

I'm already considering taking her bracelets off again, a la last summer. 
Should probably do another photo shoot first... 


Be well,
Laura & Lula
& the 3 parrot girls


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## BigRedDog (Mar 2, 2011)

Well, I have not worked professionally as a groomer for some years. I do groom my own standard and taught grooming in a well known school in the area. Lazy and grooming do not go together. As a matter of fact, those students that worked with horses first, turned out to be great dog groomers. I don't like prima donna's which is what this sounds like to me. Brush it off and you can take care of your dog until you find a really good professional groomer,(they are out there),


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## Lizspit (Mar 6, 2014)

loves said:


> Pluto, there is brushing a dog out and then there is being asked to brush out a mess. It often couldn't be done anyway and does not mean that the groomer is lazy if they won't put your dog through hours of "brushing out". Also for a groomer, time is money, so I guess if you are willing to pay a few hundred dollars for a groomer to spend all day tormenting your dog trying to demat it, then go for it. A good groomer knows what can be brushed out and what can't. It is so sad that so many poodle owners do not trust or even barely like groomers.


I think you are my hero  Lukily we do not have this problem i my shop, but most of our standard poodles are in 7 shave downs! 



As for those who are having a hard time with the slicker brush, I'm a little concerned that people are scratching skin. If you are Line brushing using the 'pat and pull' method, and not flicking your wrist at all then you should barely be touching the skin at all. Flicking your wrist will send the tips of the slicker brush into the dogs skin, so keep it in mind! Don't brush the skin, just pat the brush down onto the fur and pull it out towards you, away from the skin. 
At least this is what works for me! I never got much use out of my pin brush, Just line brushed with a slicker and checked my work with a comb. Obviously, whatever everyone is using is working for them already though! 

Regarding groomers being too rough on dogs, obviousely I wasn't seeing what the original poster was seeing, but I wonder if it is possible that normal handling seems rough to some dog owners? When I brush out my own poodle puppie's top knot my sister laughed about how it startled her that I was so rough by holding his muzzle in my hand and shifting his head the way I needed it to be facing as I was brushing. Clearly we should be kind with dogs! I just wonder often if people treat their dogs so delicately that what we groomers do just seems barbaric , when it really is normal handling. 

Maybe that's not so much in THIS case, but it's a question I ponder over often.


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## Wild Kitten (Mar 13, 2014)

Lizspit said:


> *Regarding groomers being too rough on dogs, obviously I wasn't seeing what the original poster was seeing, but I wonder if it is possible that normal handling seems rough to some dog owners? * When I brush out my own poodle puppie's top knot my sister laughed about how it startled her that I was so rough by holding his muzzle in my hand and shifting his head the way I needed it to be facing as I was brushing. Clearly we should be kind with dogs! I just wonder often if people treat their dogs so delicately that what we groomers do just seems barbaric , when it really is normal handling.
> 
> Maybe that's not so much in THIS case, but it's a question I ponder over often.


I like to watch grooming videos on youtube so I can improve on my grooming skills, and it is interesting to read the comments after...... I see so often that the groomer is handling the dog fine and people are commenting on how rough the dog is handled..... when it isn't rough at all!


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

As a professional groomer myself. I would still say, get a different groomer. Both people you dealt with were highly unprofessional. First of all, a quality groomer would never suggest to bathe a "matted" dog and not brush them and only do a sani trim. If they bathed a matted coat, as it dried, the mats would tighten and make it harder for you to get out at home. Also, I've had plenty and plenty of proud clients come in because they brush their dogs and at first glance the coat looks good, but then I have to be the wicked witch of the east and bring them down with the bad news that their dogs are really matted down to the skin and I may need to shave. 
From the picture of your pup I don't see any problem with his hair and don't see the problem the groomer had, but sometimes you have to put your hands on a coat or even get it wet before you see the problem. It could be full of pin mats that are a real time consuming pain to brush out. Also though, with the puppy coat, its possible that any mats or tangles in his coat could brush out with ease. 

What do you use to brush him with? Many clients use the wrong tools and all the effort they do put into their dogs coats are wasted when they use the wrong tools. 

Finally, no matter what shape your dogs coat was in, the groomer sounded like an ass. I will demats coats, as long as I know I have time to do it and that I can keep the dog comfortable. If I start and the dog is very I tolerable of it, the. I stop And call the owners to give them other options. If the owner wants to try it at home well than more power to them. In the 13 yrs as a groomer I have not had a single client come back with a brushed out dog when they took them home to brush them out when their only option was a shave down.

Also, anytime you get a bad vibe off of a groomer, vet, kennel personnel... RUN! there are plenty of us good ones out there who would never man handle your pet, especially a puppy, don't let an ass give your pups first experience a scary one, it could set them up to be really traumatized for the rest of their life.

And one last thing. Unfortunately there really lazy groomers out there who are not willing to demats anything. We have hired and fired a few through the years. But at the same time, I had one groomer who was like that a lot, but as a manager I never allowed anyone to shave down a dog until I assessed it first and I was finding many of her dogs she claimed to be "pelted" to have little mats here and there. Her problem was, she never was taught proper dematting so what would take me 5 minutes litererally took her 45 min. So I really worked with teaching her techniques and it really helped her and she wasn't wanting to shave nearly as many dogs after that, so sometimes it really is just lack of experience.

My suggestions is to go around and interview groomers. Take your baby in to meet them and ask them what they would be willing to do with his coat and see what they are suggesting. Plus if someone tells you there are too many mats. Tell them you brush him regularly and ask if they can show you what they mean

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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Hunny518 thank you so much for that excellent step by step explanation of your take on this situation. I hope the OP will take what you've said to heart. The puppy is really cute and obviously is well loved. I know I had lots to learn when Lily was a puppy about how to properly care for her coat. If I had been able to access your thoughtful advise I might have been able to avoid a severe shave down when she was just transitioning to her adult coat.


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## MrsD2008 (May 26, 2014)

Hi there. I have heard the term line brushing often on this thread. Can someone please explain what this means, as I think I am having a brain dead moment, thanks in advance x


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

As a non-professional groomer here is my (perhaps lame) explanation. You want to work through each section of your dog's coat on its own and get all tangles and beginnings of matting out before moving onto another area. So rather than pulling a comb or brush through the dog's coat from the withers all the way down to the tail in one long stroke you start by parting the coat so you can see down to the skin and comb through that little area below where the part is. You should start at the bottom of each leg and work up towards the body and then do the body from tail towards head. Do the head in little sections from back to front. Always make sure you part down to the skin and check carefully that each section can have a comb or slicker brush go through it smoothly before moving on.

Doing this right every few days is worth way more than running a slicker over the top of the coat without checking what is happening underneath even if you do that superficial job everyday.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Not reading through a ton of pages but! lol This is my favorite slicker, a DoggyMan brush, it's super soft and seems to be pretty durable. I'm not sold on CC or #1 All Systems produces, I groom regularly and this comb is cheap and has lasted me YEARS of grooming without losing any teeth.

Just 'brushing' your dog isn't enough, when you think your dog is brushed out with a slicker brush, take the comb over everything. The brushes lies, but the comb will tell you everything you need to know. Lots of matting is web-like right against the skin, and can be a pain in the butt to brush out.


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