# Covid puppy nightmare



## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

I don't have a whole lot to offer other than that really really sucks. I'm so sorry for them. Having your first dog is hard enough without extra trouble.

I would say I'd get a different vet if they're requiring him to go through a full vaccination schedule. For an older dog the full course of vaccines would not be necessary because the mother dog's antibodies won't block the vaccine anymore. I would guess he will only need one dose (at most two) to achieve full immunity. I believe recommendations are that dogs over 16 weeks just get a single dose. They can always have him titer tested to ensure he is immune. A more progressive vet that is up to date with current research is likely to give better advice.

Here is where I checked on vaccination schedules 








Pet Vaccines: Schedules for Cats and Dogs


Are you up on your pet’s vaccines? Use these handy reference charts from WebMD to keep up with the vaccination schedule for your dog or cat.




pets.webmd.com






https://www.aaha.org/globalassets/02-guidelines/canine-vaccination/vaccination_recommendation_for_general_practice_table.pdf


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

PeggyTheParti said:


> _*Note: I’m posting this here even though it doesn’t involve a poodle, just in case it’s helpful to anyone else who’s bringing home a puppy during these challenging times. Identifying details have been changed for privacy.*_
> 
> 
> My poor friend.
> ...


How big is Toto? I'm dual tracking here: thinking separately around management vs fixing.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

cowpony said:


> How big is Toto? I'm dual tracking here: thinking separately around management vs fixing.


Based on photos, I believe he’s a shih-tzu. They have no information on his parents at all. He could be a mix. But he’s definitely lap-sized.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Raindrops said:


> I don't have a whole lot to offer other than that really really sucks. I'm so sorry for them. Having your first dog is hard enough without extra trouble.
> 
> I would say I'd get a different vet if they're requiring him to go through a full vaccination schedule. For an older dog the full course of vaccines would not be necessary because the mother dog's antibodies won't block the vaccine anymore. I would guess he will only need one dose (at most two) to achieve full immunity. I believe recommendations are that dogs over 16 weeks just get a single dose. They can always have him titer tested to ensure he is immune. A more progressive vet that is up to date with current research is likely to give better advice.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this. I’ve recommended they seek the opinion of a more progressive vet. I don’t think they even know with complete certainty how old Toto is.


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## Ava. (Oct 21, 2020)

Sending your friend my best wishes. I hurt for all of those raising puppies during this time, its hard enough without these challenges


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## Mr.Ziggy (Jul 14, 2020)

What a tough situation. It sounds like they are doing a lot of the right things and working with a trainer. 
I would also recommend desensitizing him to outdoor sounds and other dog noises with YouTube. Playing nose games and training can help build his confidence which goes a long way as well.

If it helps you feel better, my pup was just over 6 months old when I brought him home and he was severely undersocialized. It took time and patience, but he is very well adjusted now at 15 months. While it is not ideal to start late, it doesn't mean he can't get there.


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## Pearl Grey (Nov 20, 2019)

My last puppy, Faith the border collie, had giardia. This may be why it's taken me fifteen years to get another puppy. It's an incredible amount of work, and yes, you're so busy cooking chicken and rice and trying to keep them alive that it's very easy to neglect socialization. Even without a pandemic going on.
But why the repeat vaccines? My vet never suggested such a thing.
Oh, yeah, ETA: Aoife (pictued at left) showed up on my farm at around 10 months old severely undersocialized. As in, could not see another dog, no matter how far away, without having a major meltdown.
It took a long time. Like years. Of daily walks and hiding in shrubbery or doing whatever it took to gradually stretch her comfort zone. I was extra-cautious because Aoife weighs 80 lbs and thinks the best defense is a good offense. So we took it very slowly.
But now, she plays with her dog housemate, a very submissive Brittany, and she can walk past another leashed dog most times without even noticing its existence.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Based on photos, I believe he’s a shih-tzu. They have no information on his parents at all. He could be a mix. But he’s definitely lap-sized.


 I was wondering if they might be able to use a dog stroller to start getting him out into the world. It would allow him to observe things from a safe distance. Definitely not a cure for being poorly socialized, but it would reduce the likelihood of a bad interaction that could set him further back.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Mr.Ziggy said:


> What a tough situation. It sounds like they are doing a lot of the right things and working with a trainer.
> I would also recommend desensitizing him to outdoor sounds and other dog noises with YouTube. Playing nose games and training can help build his confidence which goes a long way as well.
> 
> If it helps you feel better, my pup was just over 6 months old when I brought him home and he was severely undersocialized. It took time and patience, but he is very well adjusted now at 15 months. While it is not ideal to start late, it doesn't mean he can't get there.


This is an encouraging story. Thank you.  I think, too, of all the rescue situations that turn out well. I think a good, solid temperament plus an engaged owner can overcome so many obstacles.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Pearl Grey said:


> My last puppy, Faith the border collie, had giardia. This may be why it's taken me fifteen years to get another puppy. It's an incredible amount of work, and yes, you're so busy cooking chicken and rice and trying to keep them alive that it's very easy to neglect socialization. Even without a pandemic going on.
> But why the repeat vaccines? My vet never suggested such a thing.
> Oh, yeah, ETA: Aoife (pictued at left) showed up on my farm at around 10 months old severely undersocialized. As in, could not see another dog, no matter how far away, without having a major meltdown.
> It took a long time. Like years. Of daily walks and hiding in shrubbery or doing whatever it took to gradually stretch her comfort zone. I was extra-cautious because Aoife weighs 80 lbs and thinks the best defense is a good offense. So we took it very slowly.
> But now, she plays with her dog housemate, a very submissive Brittany, and she can walk past another leashed dog most times without even noticing its existence.


Thanks for sharing your girls’ stories.

I’m not very clear on the vaccination situation. When I inquired further, he said their goal right now is to get a negative giardia test. At that point they’ll revisit the vaccination discussion. Maybe I’ll research vets in their area to suggest one that looks more progressive. They have plenty of options.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

cowpony said:


> I was wondering if they might be able to use a dog stroller to start getting him out into the world. It would allow him to observe things from a safe distance. Definitely not a cure for being poorly socialized, but it would reduce the likelihood of a bad interaction that could set him further back.


That’s a good idea. Just being exposed to the sights, sounds, and smells of the busy city they live in would be valuable.

When Gracie could no longer go for walks, a wagon allowed her to keep participating in daily activities and stay engaged. And a dog stroller would have the added bonus of mesh to prevent escape or interaction with passing dogs.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

Oh, I just read what Giardia is.. that would be really stressful and tough. I don't even know what to say. I know what it feels like to be stressed and overwhelemed and in a situation that you didn't sign up for that is currently your reality.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

I have had a puppy come to me with giardia from a very experienced breeder. Her brother/littermate came with her on the plane to another family. He did not have giardia. We doctored her for 3 months with round after round of metronidazole and still she had it. I changed vets to someone who listened carefully to my statement that the other vet said “ONLY metronidazole works” and who refused to try any other treatment. The new vet rolled his eyes, gave me 3 packets of Panacur to give, one packet each day three days in a row. Then we waited a week and repeated the three days of treatment and the nightmare was over. Iris was 9 weeks old when she came to me. We gave her only her rabies vaccination as her others were already done. During this whole time I was determined to socialize her. To keep her safe and other dogs too I would take a clean bath towel with me to put into a shopping cart and she would sit on that and ride around the stores taking in the sights and sounds and meeting people. We went to Home Depot, Lowe’s, Home Goods, TJMax and a local pet friendly sporting goods store. We went to a different store every 3-4 days...we purposely stayed away from pet stores. Her bath towel got washed after each outing. By the time we had her healthy she was used to going places and meeting new people. We used YouTube videos to practice basic skills, until we could go to classes. Find another vet for your friend, someone who will try something different than what has already been done. Hint....Panacur is available without prescription in pet stores and on Amazon. They should Discuss with a vet before using It. Giardia is stubborn to get rid of but once they conquer this they can do anything!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Viking Queen said:


> I have had a puppy come to me with giardia from a very experienced breeder. Her brother/littermate came with her on the plane to another family. He did not have giardia. We doctored her for 3 months with round after round of metronidazole and still she had it. I changed vets to someone who listened carefully to my statement that the other vet said “ONLY metronidazole works” and who refused to try any other treatment. The new vet rolled his eyes, gave me 3 packets of Panacur to give, one packet each day three days in a row. Then we waited a week and repeated the three days of treatment and the nightmare was over. Iris was 9 weeks old when she came to me. We gave her only her rabies vaccination as her others were already done. During this whole time I was determined to socialize her. To keep her safe and other dogs too I would take a clean bath towel with me to put into a shopping cart and she would sit on that and ride around the stores taking in the sights and sounds and meeting people. We went to Home Depot, Lowe’s, Home Goods, TJMax and a local pet friendly sporting goods store. We went to a different store every 3-4 days...we purposely stayed away from pet stores. Her bath towel got washed after each outing. By the time we had her healthy she was used to going places and meeting new people. We used YouTube videos to practice basic skills, until we could go to classes. Find another vet for your friend, someone who will try something different than what has already been done. Hint....Panacur is available without prescription in pet stores and on Amazon. They should Discuss with a vet before using It. Giardia is stubborn to get rid of but once they conquer this they can do anything!


I’m going to copy and paste this into a message for them. Thank you!! I think being novice owners just makes this all so much harder to navigate. Sharing your experience will provide them with some much-needed, empowering wisdom. Thank you again.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I’ve passed on all your helpful advice, thank you. I also recommended a probiotic to help get him back on track. Apparently he’s completed a course of panacur, then metronidazole, and now is midway through another round of the panacur. He’s super lethargic (not surprising) and was happy to be taken out for a “walk” in a carrier today. Lots of curious sniffing. I suspect the lethargy may actually be working in their favour right now.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I’ve passed on all your helpful advice, thank you. I also recommended a probiotic to help get him back on track. Apparently he’s completed a course of panacur, then metronidazole, and now is midway through another round of the panacur. He’s super lethargic (not surprising) and was happy to be taken out for a “walk” in a carrier today. Lots of curious sniffing. I suspect the lethargy may actually be working in their favour right now.


Keep us posted on their progress with all of this. It was difficult for Iris and me to go through persistent giardia and I am an experienced dog owner. Can not imagine being a novice pet owner and going through this. There is light at the end of the tunnel and they will win!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Well I am very happy to report that Toto is negative for giardia. He’ll need a second test, but hasn’t shown any symptoms in weeks. My friends pushed back against the vet’s decision to start the vaccination schedule from scratch, and they ended up picking up where they left off. Toto’s been going out regularly in their arms or a carrier, and showing lots of interest in people, dogs, and the world in general.

Hooray!

Thanks again for all the great advice shared here. Hoping for continued good news.


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## Thomazine (Aug 9, 2020)

Wonderful news! I had so much empathy for them reading that. My six month old was diagnosed with giardia five weeks ago, and we are just through with a second round of Panacur and metronidazole (plus stool hardener and probiotics). The time spent sterilizing and steam-cleaning and meal prep is unreal, not to mention the 2 am frantic potty runs (and the frantic game invention for a very bored boy who doesn’t understand why his walkers, play dates and classes have gone away.) But at least mine got through two rounds of puppy classes before this thing hit...


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Thomazine said:


> Wonderful news! I had so much empathy for them reading that. My six month old was diagnosed with giardia five weeks ago, and we are just through with a second round of Panacur and metronidazole (plus stool hardener and probiotics). The time spent sterilizing and steam-cleaning and meal prep is unreal, not to mention the 2 am frantic potty runs (and the frantic game invention for a very bored boy who doesn’t understand why his walkers, play dates and classes have gone away.) But at least mine got through two rounds of puppy classes before this thing hit...


Aw, I’m so sorry to hear that. Thank goodness for those puppy classes, but I can’t imagine how exhausting it’s been for you. When will you know if this round of treatment worked?


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## Thomazine (Aug 9, 2020)

I need to test him again soon, but he is just producing watery diarrhea, despite rice/chicken/pumpkin so my hopes are not high. He is due a grooming soon, but I can’t possibly take him like this, poor baby.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Thomazine said:


> I need to test him again soon, but he is just producing watery diarrhea, despite rice/chicken/pumpkin so my hopes are not high. He is due a grooming soon, but I can’t possibly take him like this, poor baby.


Sigh. I’m sorry.  I’m not sure if this will be helpful for you (and I don’t know anything about giardia-specific dietary guidelines), but when Peggy had a rare bout of severe diarrhea, she didn’t do very well on rice and chicken. As soon as I got her back on kibble, her poops firmed up.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Thomazine said:


> I need to test him again soon, but he is just producing watery diarrhea, despite rice/chicken/pumpkin so my hopes are not high. He is due a grooming soon, but I can’t possibly take him like this, poor baby.


If the chicken & rice isn't working you could try lean ground beef and white rice. When I use chicken I always buy boneless, skinless chicken breast and boil it . I use those prepacked white rice bags, then I cut up the chicken add the white rice to it and feed it for 5-7 days, no treats and slowly add back kibble , and as long as they are tolerating it until back to kibble.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I have found Royal Canin Sensitivity Control canned very helpful in case of both acute and ongoing diarrhoea - even better than chicken and rice congee and a balanced food so OK to feed longer term.


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## Thomazine (Aug 9, 2020)

Raw ground beef or cooked..? How would you cook it to keep it plain?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Thomazine said:


> Raw ground beef or cooked..? How would you cook it to keep it plain?


It would have to be very lean, plus I’d drain (or cool and skim) the fat off, too. Just cook it gently in a little water.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Toto tested positive for giardia again


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Toto tested positive for giardia again


That's unfortunate. I don't know much about it, but from what I've read, it's very prolific. Is this a common parasite in dogs? Is there a prophylactic or vaccine? How do you keep your pet safe?


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## cmac4103 (May 5, 2019)

PeggyTheParti said:


> _*Note: I’m posting this here even though it doesn’t involve a poodle, just in case it’s helpful to anyone else who’s bringing home a puppy during these challenging times. Identifying details have been changed for privacy.*_
> 
> 
> My poor friend.
> ...


This is helpful, thank you so much!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

cmac4103 said:


> This is helpful, thank you so much!


You’re welcome.  As far as I know, the puppy has been giardia-free for a while now and has blossomed into a wonderful little family member.


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