# Why are other breeds bred to poodles



## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Anything mixed with a poodle is cute. And they think they will have a non-shedding, smart dog ect. Everything that a poodle is, without getting a poodle. They also think it will not require the grooming that a poodle needs. A lot of people don't like the "fufu" dog that they think poodles are. When all they would need to do is groom it the way they want it to look. They just don't know the facts.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

they want a poodle, but just don't know it yet.


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## Cailin77 (Jul 21, 2012)

I have an aunt that has 2 "golden doodles." She fostered a dog for a doodle rescue a few years ago that once groomed and fattened up (he had been neglected) appears pure standard poodle. She has since said that if she knew how awesome poodles were, she never would have gotten a mix! And of course, the poodle "foster" is now her 3rd dog!


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## Tink (Mar 14, 2012)

Faerie, I think you're right.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

They breed them for money.


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## PlayfulPup (Aug 8, 2012)

faerie said:


> they want a poodle, but just don't know it yet.


That is my story exactly!


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## Grace (Jul 27, 2012)

It seems really common to be biased against poodles because they're thought of only as poofy, high-maintenance, prissy dogs. That concept clouds their perception of this wonderful breed. Very unfortunate!

I must admit, this was also DH's and my initial perception of poodles UNTIL we did actual research and looked past our preconceived notions about poodles.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Money!!!


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

Because then they can add "oodle" on the end of the name, which is ever so much cuter (and marketable) than "mutt."


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## Poodlelvr (Mar 13, 2010)

This is the latest fad for dog buyers--sort of like platform stillettos for fashionistas. Unscrupulous breeders are cashing in on it and crossing poodles with whatever and charging $$$$. If you want to see what a huge mistake it is, go on Petfinder and search for poodles. There are more of these crazy mixes than actual poodles. There are even rescues called Oodles of Doodles. I HATE it!!!


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

Because some customers are nitwits and don't do their research before they buy a dog.

And because some unscrupulous people who have dogs with no papers, possibly because the dogs were stolen from their rightful owners, or who have papers with endorsements on them that the dogs' original breeders probably put there for good reasons, want to make cute puppies to sell for money but can't register dogs of a proper breed.

Or because amateurish people decide they want to have puppies for fun and money, but can't be bothered to educate themselves and travel to a suitable stud dog of the same breed.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

I think a lot of people think they can get a "hypoallergenic", smart, fluffy, cute dog without having an actual poodle. Many people think that poodles are yappy, bite, and MUST be kept in ridiculous, froufrou haircuts. 


Also, many people are ignorant and don't understand that a _____oodle is a mutt, not some rare breed. 

It's their loss for sure...I've yet to meet a poodle mix I liked better than a purebred poodle! I might be biased though.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Grace said:


> It seems really common to be biased against poodles because they're thought of only as poofy, high-maintenance, prissy dogs. That concept clouds their perception of this wonderful breed. Very unfortunate!
> 
> I must admit, this was also DH's and my initial perception of poodles UNTIL we did actual research and looked past our preconceived notions about poodles.


It's unfortunate indeed!!

But the 'preconceived notion' is not the fault of the public at large. It can ONLY be the actions of Poodles and Poodle owners that create these notions. 

When we stop maintaining these terrific companions as 'poofy, high-maintenance prissy dogs' . . only then will the public _begin_ to see them as regular dogs.

My bet is that it will never happen... and people will continue to try to create a poodle breed that is non frou-frou enuf to be accepted.

And with all due respect... Fae and others... y'all are right in a sense... IF people got to know Poodles. But y'all are sloughing this off as a triviality, IMO. People won't get to know Poodles . . 'coz they already know Poodles!

Witness the Poodle image for the last 100 years and u can see that plainly.

We're gonna hafta work like hell to change that. Not just say, 'oh well, it's their fault... those poor people. If they just got to know Poodles...'


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I was talking to a completely ignorant woman about this not long ago, who was convinced that doodles were going to become an akc breed someday. Then kept asking me over and over why I don't think they will when I answered her every time! It was infuriating!

She said that you need to mix poodles because they're too serious, and other dogs are more goofy, silly, and fun.

So, to mock her, I made this video of my 'serious' and totally not goofy or silly dog.


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## Lily's-Mom (May 31, 2012)

mom24doggies said:


> I think a lot of people think they can get a "hypoallergenic", smart, fluffy, cute dog without having an actual poodle. Many people think that poodles are yappy, bite, and MUST be kept in ridiculous, froufrou haircuts.
> 
> 
> Also, many people are ignorant and don't understand that a _____oodle is a mutt, not some rare breed.


That's what I think - people have been told (and they believe) that if you mix another breed with a poodle you will end up with a non shedding, hypoallergenic dog. Now that people think that, those breeders can charge a bucket of money for a mutt-oodle. 
I had a teenager pass us by yesterday and was petting Lily and told me they have a labradoodle at home. Then he said "but it turned out to be mostly Lab" in a rather disgusted tone. I chuckled to myself.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Also, we love our poodles because they're sensitive and intuitive, but not everyone wants a sensitive dog that gets his/her feelings hurt easily, and has to be around people all the time to thrive. So I think people breed them with other kinds of dogs in an attempt to get a tougher dog. Which as we know is a crapshoot, because you can't know WHAT you'll get then. Oh if I could count how many poodle crossbreeds I have groomed, with the short legs, long bodies, undershot jaws, weepy eyes and rotten teeth. They must've been really cute as puppies, is what I always think! Now I pity the poor Shih Tzu breed because crossing them with other small breeds seems to be taking on the popularity that cross-breeding the poodle has had over the last 30 years.


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

I agree, they want a poodle, just don't know it yet. My husband had the concept of fu fu dogs, yappy, spoiled, etc. It took me a while to convince him but we have had our little girl minipoo for a year. He absolutely adores her, and brags about her amazing intelligence, loving manner, sense of humor, total devotion etc etc. He is a total convert to the wonders and joy of being a poodle owner (or should I say, being part of our poodle's "pack").
Hard to understand why anyone would mix breeds of any sort! If you look in rescue centers you will see that most of the poor sad abandoned dogs are part pit bull. What is the matter with people doing such a thing as breeding mixed pit bulls, and then the new owner realizes that cute puppy has grown up to be too much dog. How sad (for the poor dogs who didn't ask to be born)


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

Countryboy said:


> It's unfortunate indeed!!
> 
> But the 'preconceived notion' is not the fault of the public at large. It can ONLY be the actions of Poodles and Poodle owners that create these notions.
> 
> ...


 What, so I should shave my poodles like you shave Tonka just so that the public can "get to know poodles"? No thanks! And I don't really appreciate you suggesting that me and other people who like fancier clips should do so! 

The fact of the matter is, once people have met Trev and Raven, they change their minds about poodles. Mine are calm and behave, don't bark excessively and don't bite people or dogs. Trev fetches balls and swims with as much gusto as a golden or lab. And yep, they both have froufrou hair cuts. So don't tell me I need to shave my poodles just so I can change people's minds! I can do it just as well with them in a fancy haircut.


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## PlayfulPup (Aug 8, 2012)

mom24doggies said:


> What, so I should shave my poodles like you shave Tonka just so that the public can "get to know poodles"? No thanks! And I don't really appreciate you suggesting that me and other people who like fancier clips should do so!
> 
> The fact of the matter is, once people have met Trev and Raven, they change their minds about poodles. Mine are calm and behave, don't bark excessively and don't bite people or dogs. Trev fetches balls and swims with as much gusto as a golden or lab. And yep, they both have froufrou hair cuts. So don't tell me I need to shave my poodles just so I can change people's minds! I can do it just as well with them in a fancy haircut.


poodles in shorter clips often get mistaken for doodles... I swear I have never met a spoo, but with all my time at the dog park interacting with dogs, not people, I might have because I have met some 'doodles' with great temperaments. ...I have met many yappy, frou-frou toy and mini poodles that gave me my first impression of poodles in general... that and the 'internet' saying the most common breed to bite was poodles. Of course, i either never read far enough in whatever article I found, or it never said it could be linked BYBs over/poor breeding. I think more people with fancy cuts should go out and inform people about well bred poodles ...and adding they can be cut like doodles, would not hurt either 

Thankfully those 'doodles' i met were awesome (and cute and perfectly curly and fluffy) and since I love research, I looked into the 2 breeds that made doodles... fast forward a few years and here I am, almost perfectly convinced a spoo will find her way into our house. (just a few more item to check off the list, such as actually meeting a spoo!)


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

I owned a terriepoo (toy poodle mix unknown terrier). DH gifted him to me back in April 2012. DH didn't bought it as a mix, the seller advertise it as a purebred poodle so DH is not intentionally buying a mix poodle breed. 

Maybe other buyers of poodle mix have agenda but we don't. Just want a dog in the family.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Poodles have not been represented in retriever clips until very recently, and the clip is still not accepted in the conformation ring, generally. The public has never been given a clue of any other attributes of the poodle, except what they see. How many breeders would keep show coat, if they had a choice?


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

Joelly said:


> I owned a terriepoo (toy poodle mix unknown terrier). DH gifted him to me back in April 2012. DH didn't bought it as a mix, the seller advertise it as a purebred poodle so DH is not intentionally buying a mix poodle breed.
> 
> Maybe other buyers of poodle mix have agenda but we don't. Just want a dog in the family.


 What we are discussing is people who intentionally breed mixes or who go out of their way to buy dogs that were intentionally mixed. You had no way of knowing your pup was mixed, and honestly mixes are great dogs too and need good homes just like purebreds. However, most of us would agree they shouldn't be produced on purpose. So sorry if we offended you! We just get fed up with these "breeders" claiming their mutt is better than a pure poodle.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Should we wonder whether the "oodles" craze is a reaction to the long poodle coat by unscrupulous breeders appealing to the public's misinformation from the majority of poodle images? It's an image that I personally love.


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

mom24doggies said:


> What we are discussing is people who intentionally breed mixes or who go out of their way to buy dogs that were intentionally mixed. You had no way of knowing your pup was mixed, and honestly mixes are great dogs too and need good homes just like purebreds. However, most of us would agree they shouldn't be produced on purpose. So sorry if we offended you! We just get fed up with these "breeders" claiming their mutt is better than a pure poodle.


Sorry for getting offended. I realized now that it is not necessary. But I understand what you mean. To say that their mutt is better than the purebred is marketing gimmick, same like calling them designer dogs. IMHO.


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

On poodle public perception:

I suspect the vast majority of people see the poodles on offer at dog shows as being divorced from the reality of owning a dog. But I'm not necessarily sure this means they want to see poodles in extremely short clips, or amorphous non-clips with filthy overgrown faces.

Usually if someone comments on my dog (currently somewhere between a Modern clip and a Scandinavian), they remark on how nice she is and ask if her coat needs a lot of work. I try to be honest and informative and explain that a dog in this kind of clip is brushed and combed thoroughly every few days and washed, dried, and clipped/trimmed between once a month and every six weeks, but that if you don't want the work, you can just buy a cheap clipper from Argos and clip the dog short all over with that once a month. I have only ever had two negative comments: one from a lady at the vet, who said she was afraid of my dog because a poodle once bit her as a child, and another when a friend posted a picture he took of my dog on his blog and someone commented on it that it was animal abuse and people should leave poodles to grow naturally and then 'it would look like a dog'. Actually, it wouldn't. It would look like a filthy doormat and be a welfare issue.

I suspect a lot of the people who end up buying mutts just do not take the time to educate themselves. There are curly breeds around with similar coats that aren't poodles, such as the IWS and PWD, and there are untidy-looking breeds with shaggy coats such as the Otterhound and Spinone if that's what you want. I took my poodle to a garden party recently and met a young couple there who looked to be recently married. The woman thought she was wonderful and grinned at her husband and asked if she could have one, and he said no, but then knelt down and stroked my dog. I tried to impress upon them as best as I could that if they did get one, to get a real one rather than a cross with something else. One does wonder if when a couple choose a mongrel because one wants a poodle and the other wants something more macho, both of them end up secretly disappointed because the mongrel is neither soft and non-smelly/sheddy and sensitive like the poodle one wanted, nor mudproof and twigproof or able to be significantly outdoorsy without maintenance like the other wanted.

A nurse once told me she loved poodle puppies best of all breeds, because they looked like tiny jurors in wigs. xD


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Carley is NOT in a fu fu clip. I shave her down with #4 blade all over . She is never thought of as a doodle. No one has ever asked me what kind of dog she is... She does have that "poodle walk" down...lol

I am glad that the breed is not for everyone! I don't think that many people should have a poodle. I am glad they cost alot to prevent impluse buys ect. 

I don't think many people I know would spend the time I do with my dog. I am doing something to her, with her everyday. She is always on my mind and in all my dreams...


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## Tink (Mar 14, 2012)

Sorry. I did not intend to offend you. I just find it odd that my neighbors who have mixes would not consider a poodle because of the stereotype.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

mom24doggies said:


> What, so I should shave my poodles like you shave Tonka just so that the public can "get to know poodles"? No thanks! And I don't really appreciate you suggesting that me and other people who like fancier clips should do so!
> 
> So don't tell me I need to shave my poodles just so I can change people's minds! I can do it just as well with them in a fancy haircut.


No, 'Mom'. I'm not telling u what clips u should use on yr dogs. U can use whatever clip u want. 

But I'm saying that as long as u turn yr dogs into some cartoon caricature of a real dog that u have no reason to question the promotion of doodles over Poodles. 'Coz u are the reason that people choose doodles and not Poodles.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Pure-bred dog breeders have at least equal responsibility as the general public in the education of buying well-bred dogs and the reasons why not to buy mixes from other breeders.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

You know what, never mind. Rudeness is best ignored.  

ETA: I'm with Carley's Mom, I don't want everyone to have a poodle! They certainly aren't for everyone.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Countryboy said:


> But I'm saying that as long as u turn yr dogs into some cartoon caricature of a real dog that u have no reason to question the promotion of doodles over Poodles. 'Coz u are the reason that people choose doodles and not Poodles.


What a ridiculous statement!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

PaddleAddict said:


> What a ridiculous statement!


Easy to say, P/A . . . but not an argument, really. 

All I'm sayin' is that somebody created the stereotype of a typical Poodle as a coiffed dandy. It wasn't me, it wasn't my neighbour . . and there's a whole bunch of other people who it wasn't. It was poodle owners who created it, and perpetuate it to this day. 

And ya know what??? . . . that's fine. Go ahead.

But, if u do, I don't think u have the right to speak out against practices that try to create the perfect dog . . but eliminate the stereotype of a Poodle. 

'Coz you're part of the people perpetuating that prissy stereotype that the public is wary of.


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

Countryboy said:


> But, if u do, I don't think u have the right to speak out against practices that try to create the perfect dog . . but eliminate the stereotype of a Poodle.


But poodle mutt breeders aren't trying to create 'the perfect dog'. The dogs they create contribute nothing to the future of Dogkind because they aren't a breed and are unregisterable. What they are trying to create is ERMAHGERD, CUTE PUPPEHS! for people with more money than sense. If people want a shaggy dog with a messy face, and did their research, they would come to the conclusion that they need a Spinone or an Otterhound. There are already breeds with all kinds of appearances and qualities. There is no need to crossbreed in order to make novelties out of breeds to make them marketable to people whom they don't appeal to anyway. It's nothing to do with how people choose to groom their dogs. I cannot really imagine that Joe Bloggs who sees a poodle at a show imagines for one minute that if he had a poodle, it would look like it did in the ring.


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## Lily's-Mom (May 31, 2012)

There are other dogs that are shown in a certain cut that many pet owners don't keep. But for some reason the poodle get the frou frou tag. I think a lot of people have preconceived ideas about dog breeds much the same way they do about segments of human population. They are stereotyping poodles as frou frou due to a haircut mainly used for show purposes without knowing anything about the breed itself.
And I sticking with my thought that breeders cross breeds with poodle to tell uneducated buyers that they're a poodle mix so they don't shed.
PS- _ "I don't think u have the right to speak out against practices that try to create the perfect dog " _
What exactly is the _*perfect*_ dog? Everyone has a different perfect dog for themselves and their family and lifestyle. I don't think those breeders are trying to create a "perfect" dog, I think they are trying to make money.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Countryboy said:


> But, if u do, I don't think u have the right to speak out against practices that try to create the perfect dog.


Well, I guess we had all better stop the nice and interesting discussion on this thread because Country Boy says we don't have the right. Okaaaaaaaay.

Honestly, I don't get the chip some people have on their shoulder about poodle hair. It's hair. It's awesome hair. It's versatile. You can clip it however you want. 

Personally, I LOVE the show clips and think they are incredible works of art. Not everyone thinks it's a "silly haircut."


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

PaddleAddict said:


> Honestly, I don't get the chip some people have on their shoulder about poodle hair. It's hair. It's awesome hair. It's versatile. You can clip it however you want.
> 
> Personally, I LOVE the show clips and think they are incredible works of art. Not everyone thinks it's a "silly haircut."


 My thoughts exactly. It isn't the hair that makes the dog! I don't have a problem with poodles who have short clips, I do short clips all the time in fact! But I do enjoy scissoring long hair, and I think it's incredibly rude to state that I and others like me are the cause of doodle breeders because of my dog's HAIRCUT, (come on Country Boy, seriously?!) that I don't have the right to speak out against them, and that my dogs look like a cartoon. Be rude to me all you want and I might be upset, but speak against my dog and you will have one angry person on your hands!


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## stealthq (Aug 4, 2011)

PaddleAddict said:


> Well, I guess we had all better stop the nice and interesting discussion on this thread because Country Boy says we don't have the right. Okaaaaaaaay.
> 
> Honestly, I don't get the chip some people have on their shoulder about poodle hair. It's hair. It's awesome hair. It's versatile. You can clip it however you want.
> 
> Personally, I LOVE the show clips and think they are incredible works of art. Not everyone thinks it's a "silly haircut."


Realistically, though, whether you think of a show cut as silly or not, there can't be too many people that look at one and don't think that it must take a staggering amount of time and effort to maintain - and they're right. Lots of people likely cross poodles off their list based on maintenance alone. If I had not known someone with standards that kept their dogs in kind of a retriever/puppy hybrid cut and knew that in fact I did not have to spend an hour or more brushing that coat every day, then I would never have gotten one.


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

Countryboy might have put things a bit more, uh, vehemently than some of us would like, but he does have a point. Do you think poodles would suffer from the same frou-frou stereotype if the Continental and other show clips had never existed, much less become a required part of conformation? Would the breed be perceived the same way today if it had been shown in a short retriever or working clip for, oh, the last 200 years or so? I doubt it.

Also, as stated earlier I remain convinced that the "oodle" and "poo" naming factor is a huge reason why poodles are crossbred so frequently. 

To put it another way, as far as the general public is concerned, the haircut and the cute name are the poodle's "brand." (And lest I be flamed to a crisp, I _love_ that brand, frou-frou and all.) Take away the fancy haircut and the cute name, and the poodle would be just another among several other curly coated retreivers -- an exceptional example, perhaps, but hardly one so elegant and iconic that a silhouette is all you need for instant recognition. You might see the occassional cross, but I seriously doubt anyone would try making an industry out of mixing, say "German Curly Coated Retreivers" with every other breed known to man.


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

Hmmm this is a very interesting thread. I'm not as knowleageable as anyone here but maybe some people mix the poodle with other breed just because they can only afford one poodle. They are pricey afterall. IMHO.


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

This is a great thread, very interesting points brought out by all. 

My thoughts: I think zyrcona is really onto something with the idea of people wanting a cross that will satisfy both the husband and the wife of a couple--if not a literal husband and wife, then the part of a buyer that "wants it all": the intelligence and hypoallergenic (yes, I know) qualities of a poodle and the rough and tumble manliness of a lab. (Yes, I know a spoo is JUST as big and as rough and tumble and as manly. *We* know that!) There's also a certain cache to the idea that this particular cross was "created to make the perfect guide dog!" Never mind that that particular experiment failed.)

I think Countryboy and LEUllman have a point with the "brand" of the poodle being so heavily identified with the exaggerated, stylistic "show dog" look. Poodle skirts and poodle charms and poodle "whatevers" as far as merchandise for the general public don't feature poodles in retriever clips. (Yes, I know that at dog shows and / or with a little looking you can get merchandise with poodles in utility-type clips or puppy clips. I'm talking in general, for "poodle stuff."*)

I think mom24doggies has a great point that just because a poodle CAN be trimmed in a fun way and some people LIKE it trimmed in a fun way, doesn't mean suddenly those of us who do are somehow contributing to the frou-frou image of the breed. Even the crazy Continental clip has a historical origin (though I would agree that its incarnation in the show ring has gotten a little out of hand--wiggies, really?). And what haircut is "too" frou-frou? Who gets to decide? Is everything except for a retriever cut forbidden, or we can't disagree with breeding doodles? Sugarfoot is in a town and country with a long topknot right now--is that too fancy? Are puffy legs allowed so long as the body is short?

I bet, though, that with poodles being such a popular breed, that for every person who thinks disparaging thoughts about "show poodles," there are two or three that have owned one or know someone who does, and can draw their conclusions from reality. And we all know that there are good poodles out there, and a few bad ones. 

All we can do is continue being the ambassadors of our marvelous breed, in all its sizes, coats, and colors.

--Q

*Just for grins, I did a google image search for "poodle stuff" and of the first 20 images, 13 were poodles or merchandise with poodles in either contis or creative grooms, including this cool item. A similar search for "poodle figurines" produced 12 of the top 20 images as dogs in town and country or conti clips. I was actually surprised these numbers were that low--I didn't except to see any typical pet clips at all. So I guess we're making progress!


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## Bunny (Jun 14, 2012)

LEUllman, ITA about the -oodle or -poo being so cute as a mix with another breed. And yeah, German Curly coated Retrievers" just doens't have the same ring to it.

So where did the word "Poodle" come from? It IS a funny word when you say it. LOL


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

Bunny said:


> LEUllman, ITA about the -oodle or -poo being so cute as a mix with another breed. And yeah, German Curly coated Retrievers" just doens't have the same ring to it.
> 
> So where did the word "Poodle" come from? It IS a funny word when you say it. LOL


According to the AKC:

"The Poodle is supposed to have originated in Germany, where it is known as the Pudel or Canis Familiaris Aquatius. However, for years it has been regarded as the national dog of France, where is was commonly used as a retriever as well as, the Caniche, which is derived from chien canard or duck dog. Doubtless the English word 'poodle' comes from the German pudel or pudelin, meaning to splash in the water."


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## Bunny (Jun 14, 2012)

Hm, I guess poodle is better than "duck dog." LOL OTOH, "-duck" could make some very interesting names for "designer" mixed breeds. Hah!


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## CMPB (Feb 15, 2012)

zyrcona said:


> Or because amateurish people decide they want to have puppies for fun and money, but can't be bothered to educate themselves and travel to a suitable stud dog of the same breed.


I'm not sure most people understand the sheer amount of work and effort that go into selecting a mentor, starting a dog breeding programme, paying stud fees, ect. It is certainly not something one does for money. At least not to do it well and profit. 

More importantly, I'm willing to bet most of these people wouldn't care to show a dog or improve the standard through selective breeding and unfortunately these dogs will end up destroyed as a result of their ignorance. Education really is important.


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## sophiebonita (Jul 10, 2012)

That poodle USB thing is awesome. Sorry, kind of off-topic ?


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## CMPB (Feb 15, 2012)

Quossum said:


> I bet, though, that with poodles being such a popular breed, that for every person who thinks disparaging thoughts about "show poodles," there are two or three that have owned one or know someone who does, and can draw their conclusions from reality. And we all know that there are good poodles out there, and a few bad ones.



Thank you for your thought-out and well-worded reply. I always enjoy reading your posts. I am reminded every time I hear someone say something negative about Poodles that I have an extra responsibility to ensure that Pierre grows to be an obedient and friendly "paragon of puppy virtue," as my breeder put it. Only time will tell how others will react..but I know that for my part..I intend to do all I can to boost the image of both dog owners and poodles in general.


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

Re: cartoons. Whenever I see a cartoon of a poodle, it's nearly always pink and in a weird 'bra and knickers' clip that I have never in my life seen in any grooming book, on a real poodle, or on an historical photograph. Case in point: 










(it has several very severe conformation faults as well, but that's beside the point) If this image is the show people's fault, howcome I've never seen a dyed pink poodle at a show, or one in this peculiar clip?

The coat is part of the poodle's unique selling point. For better or worse, it is crisp and curly and non-oily and can be grown very long and pruned into fantastic topiary. Unless it's kept very short with regular clipping, it also attracts burrs and debris from outside. If this type of coat fundamentally doesn't agree with you for whatever reason, the poodle is not the dog for you, and there are lots of other real breeds that need people to own and preserve them for you to choose from. This is the main reason I find this article disagreeable. It is not intended that there be one breed that everyone must own. The purpose of a dog is not for a human to just own any old dog in order that the dog's welfare needs be fulfilled with no regard to the person's enjoyment of life and ownership of a dog, despite what animal rights extremists might think. Quite the contrary, breeds exist because people have a great variety of likes and requirements and breeds have been developed to serve them -- if not, everyone would just have the generic African Village Dog still. If you don't like the characteristics of one breed, choose another one. It doesn't mean that those who do like that breed should suffer it being made out to be something else just so it can be more palatable to other people. It has nothing to do with mongrel breeders, who simply cater for the 'cute puppy' market of buyers who don't bother to research before they put their money down.


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## ekbaby734 (Jul 1, 2011)

SusanG said:


> I agree, they want a poodle, just don't know it yet. My husband had the concept of fu fu dogs, yappy, spoiled, etc. It took me a while to convince him but we have had our little girl minipoo for a year. He absolutely adores her, and brags about her amazing intelligence, loving manner, sense of humor, total devotion etc etc. He is a total convert to the wonders and joy of being a poodle owner (or should I say, being part of our poodle's "pack".


Thats funny, My Fiancee was the same way, he was out of town when we officially adopted Sooty our Tpoo. Now he proudly says when someone ask's what kind of dog we have "A Toy Poodle!"


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## dcyk (Nov 30, 2011)

Poodles serious? That person must be joking, Mine makes me laugh everyday with his silly and crazy antics. 

Clips, yep that definately defines the poodle to many people.

When i told my aunt who came to visit from Australia that this is a toy poodle, she say that can't be, it must be a xxxoodle. Because Mack's in a teddy bear cut. Fuzzy all over. Didn't correct her hahahah, maybe i would when i go visit her next week.


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## Dog catcher (May 27, 2012)

I have met three 'doodles on my walks with fang. One of the owners is the type of person who lets you know by their manor it is best to just nod and keep on walking. The other two owners and I have become friends and often chat while our dogs visit. All of these dogs are lab x poodle, and are able to drag the owner for the duration of the walk. I am a very straight forward and have asked why the labradoodle was chosen over a pure poodle. Both owners said; with the mix you get all of the best qualities of both breeds. I asked if it be possible to also inherit some of the known problems and they both said they were told that is not a possibility or would be a very remote possibility. I find it interesting that they marvel at how well behaved and calm Fang is, and how soft her coat is. One admits that his 'doodle does shed a "little bit." The other is a poorly shaped gangly legged dog that was adopted from a shelter, great personality but ugly as a plate of worms. The owner who bought his dog for his two sons said he paid $1,700 for her and thinks he got a very good deal. These are very successful people who are well educated, they just seem to be ignorant when it comes to dogs.

When I first got fang she was 10 months old and was trimmed for ease of maintenance. Her tail was not docked and being Irish setter red she did not look like a poodle to many people. I had several teens tell me they had a 'doodle at home, and they asked what kind of 'doodle mix Fang was. I would tell them she was cocker spaniel poodle mix, and was a cocka-doodle.


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

People are all individuals, with individual preferences. So far in the USA, we still have the right earn our money and spend it how we wish.. which means paying as much as we want to for a dog, be it purebred, or mutt.

Through the years, I've had a lot of people question ME about why I have POODLES. There are a lot of preconceived notions out there.. that aren't accurate at all. Those people, in some cases are really interested in why I have poodles. However, in most cases, it's THEIR snob factor kicking in.. and I can just imagine the thoughts going through their minds. " Look at that poor silly woman! She thinks she has a real dog. Can you imagine anyone dumb enough to get a foo-foo dog like that? Standard poodles are biters. Poodles bark all the time. You've got to be kidding... a poodle? Who'd want a dog that has to be groomed all of the time? Hate to own a hot house dog like that, I'd wanna dog that can go places with me! I'd be embarrassed to own a dog like that! I'll bet she got taken to the cleaners for that dog! Probably paid a fortune. Poodles sure have a lot of health issues, bet that dog dies young, Crazy! What person in their right mind would EVER want to own a poodle!?!?!". 

In most cases, people asking questions like the hypothetical ones I wrote above, aren't REALLY interested at all in knowing why I own poodles. They are uppity dog snobs, trying to give their own egos a boost because they are better, smarter than me and have better dogs. Occasionally.. someone is sincerely interested in poodles.

Think about the doodle people we encounter. When we ask questions.. is it because we are truly interested, or because we are dog snobs?

Being dog snobs doesn't benefit anyone. It's a hater kind of a thing. There's underlying maliciousness and in some cases, bullying. This type of thing is so prevalent that I'm a bit baffled that most people don't seem to recognize it when it's right in front of them.

I think most of us agree that dogs.. are pretty innocent in the big scope of things. They didn't ask for their litters to be bred, or for themselves to be born, they didn't ask to be owned by someone or paraded around on the end of a leash, yet for the most part, they tolerate it quite well. Dogs, of whatever heritage and background, do not deserve our disrespect. I believe that when we are disrespectul of owners, the dog on the other end of the leash can perceive that. 

Wouldn't the world be a bit nicer place if we all either treated each other with sincerity and respect, OR just simply walked on by and didn't say anything at all?

When people pay the big bucks for their dogs (and remember that "big bucks" is subjective) they are not only getting a dog, but they are also buying a dream. Whether or not that dream remains a dream or turns into a nightmare for them, only time will tell. But it's their dream.. and it shouldn't be up to anyone to try to ruin it for them.

Those wonderful curly haired poodles we have on the ends of our leashes did not endow us with the right of being dog snobs.....

As to the original question, I believe that people breed other breeds to poodles because poodles are about right for them, but not 100%. They are hoping for something that is a better fit for them personally. While doodles aren't a breed, that is how just about every dog breed came into being, people wanting specific traits and selecting for them. As to doodle breeders, there are doodle breeders out there who do their health testing, who follow up with their pups, who make themselves available should problems occur, who have health guarantees and who require pups who don't work out in their homes come back to them. There are a lot of poodle breeders... who don't. We are all human, but we really don't need to be dog snobs.

Darla


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## CMPB (Feb 15, 2012)

Yaddaluvpoodles said:


> Wouldn't the world be a bit nicer place if we all either treated each other with sincerity and respect, OR just simply walked on by and didn't say anything at all?
> 
> When people pay the big bucks for their dogs (and remember that "big bucks" is subjective) they are not only getting a dog, but they are also buying a dream. Whether or not that dream remains a dream or turns into a nightmare for them, only time will tell. But it's their dream.. and it shouldn't be up to anyone to try to ruin it for them.
> 
> ...


Hear..hear 





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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

Yaddaluvpoodles I totally agree, no need to be a dog snob! I love many different breeds myself as well as a good many mutts. However I feel that disagreeing with the practice of crossbreeding purposely isn't snobby, I simply want my favorite breed to be seen as the amazing dog it is and I want people to be fair in assessing them as a possible pet. I don't see how dismissng them based on appearence is fair. Although I am still of the opinion that the poodles percieved bad temper plays a bigger part in people's perception of them than a fancy haircut.


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## CMPB (Feb 15, 2012)

mom24doggies said:


> Although I am still of the opinion that the poodles percieved bad temper plays a bigger part in people's perception of them than a fancy haircut.


And who is to blame for a bad-temper? The Breeder? The Keeper? Surely not the dog...

All too often we fail to realise the commitment in breeding and keeping a pet. Poodles need attention. Call it the price for picking an intelligent breed--regardless, one has duties as a human to a beloved pet and I'm sure our neighbours, friends and passers by are no more attracted to our breed when it misbehaves than they are to a petulant child. Just as not all petulant children are bad neither are dogs. Our dogs behave in a manner in keeping with training philosophies and practices of the breeder and keeper. If others perceive our breed as picky, misbehaved and high-maintenance than perhaps we should consider what role we play in that perception and start from there. 

My 1.5 cents..


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

CMPB said:


> And who is to blame for a bad-temper? The Breeder? The Keeper? Surely not the dog...
> 
> All too often we fail to realise the commitment in breeding and keeping a pet. Poodles need attention. Call it the price for picking an intelligent breed--regardless, one has duties as a human to a beloved pet and I'm sure our neighbours, friends and passers by are no more attracted to our breed when it misbehaves than they are to a petulant child. Just as not all petulant children are bad neither are dogs. Our dogs behave in a manner in keeping with training philosophies and practices of the breeder and keeper. If others perceive our breed as picky, misbehaved and high-maintenance than perhaps we should consider what role we play in that perception and start from there.
> 
> My 1.5 cents..


. Not really sure what you are trying to say? I mean, I understand your words but what is your point? Not trying to sound rude, I'm honestly wondering. Call it my "after work" brain lol!


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## CMPB (Feb 15, 2012)

mom24doggies said:


> I'm honestly wondering. Call it my "after work" brain lol!


haha it was confusing wasn't it? My apologies. I re-read and agree. 

My point: if people perceive our breed as anything but the wonderful dogs they are (and we know they're the best), well, perhaps we should start to see how we as poodle people behave and allow our animals to behave. 

If our poodles are perceived as high-maintenance and ill-mannered we should see how much of that is perpetuated by our own lifestyles as breeders and keepers of Poodle dogs. 




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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

CMPB said:


> haha it was confusing wasn't it? My apologies. I re-read and agree.
> 
> My point: if people perceive our breed as anything but the wonderful dogs they are (and we know they're the best), well, perhaps we should start to see how we as poodle people behave and allow our animals to behave.
> 
> ...


 Thanks, NOW I understand what you are saying. And I agree! I know that for myself, my poodles are almost always received favorably. They are sweet, polite, well groomed, don't bark excessively, not to mention they demonstrate well just how rough and tumble a poodle can be! Lol....anyone who sees Trev blast full tilt after his ball or dive face first into a puddle or roll around on the ground with Raven doesn't think he's prissy or stuck up! The few times Trev has been rude to a dog or person, they see how I immediately apologize and deal with it appropriately. 

The reality is though, we should all be allowed the right to have the kind of dog we want, (with the haircut we want!) without being judged or thought less of. I know, I know, not possible, but that is how it should be! Sometimes I wish dog ownership were a bit simpler, that I could just enjoy my dogs without having to worry about everyone else and their perceptions.


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## CMPB (Feb 15, 2012)

Well, mom24, then do not. Just be yourself and enjoy your poodles. 


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

CMPB said:


> Well, mom24, then do not. Just be yourself and enjoy your poodles.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


 You are right, I should....but I care too much about what others think sometimes unfortunately.  Something I am working on.


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

Yaddaluvpoodles said:


> Wouldn't the world be a bit nicer place if we all either treated each other with sincerity and respect, OR just simply walked on by and didn't say anything at all?


While I will never verbally abuse someone about their choice of dog, and I have nothing against the dogs themselves, I guess I'm a dog snob in this respect, because to be quite honest I find the practice of deliberate mongrel breeding an anathema.

To make this clear, I don't approach or start discussions with people with mongrel dogs. I have been in situations in public places where some hairy mutt-thing has come bounding towards my dogs with an owner with an evangelical look on its face trailing somewhere behind. I get my dogs and leave, because I don't want to hear crap about how their dog is a something'oodle' (I refuse to refer to them as 'doodles', idiotic term, and so far as I'm concerned, a doodle is a scribbly drawing) and it's better than mine because it has 'qualities' from another breed in it. If someone tries to force a discussion of this sort on me, I make an excuse and leave. I have at various times doing pedigree research, come into contact with people who either breed or allow their dogs to be used to make mongrel puppies. I discuss politely what I want to discuss and don't bring up the matter. People have asked me for genetics advice on what colours they will get in their mongrel litter, and I have told them I don't know, as I have no knowledge of what colour genes occur in the other breeds involved. Just because one doesn't approve of something, it doesn't mean one has a right to be rude to someone else who is doing it when it's not breaking the law or infringing on one's own rights. But I think one can absolutely maintain a dignified and respectful stance of disapproval without backstabbing, mudslinging, rubbing one's opinions in someone else's face, or resorting to any other underhand behaviour.

But, I don't approve. The main reason I don't approve is because I'm acutely aware of the genetics problems many real breeds are facing. Buying a dog of a breed helps to support a breeder and maintain diversity in a breed. Buying a mongrel from a breeder contributes nothing to the future of dogs. The people breeding and selling these dogs frequently misrepresent them by making all kinds of wild claims about what they are like. I also really don't like that the fad market for mutt puppies and the lack of any necessity for papers or proof of ownership potentially encourages dog theft and criminals making puppies to sell. One of my dogs could be stolen, and if they took my beloved spayed pet bitch and mistreated her for a year waiting for her to come into season before they realised their error, they'd hardly take the trouble to give her back to me -- she'd end up being passed on to dog fighting gangs, or in a bag with a few rocks in the nearest canal. And I truly think that if the people who buy these puppies had bothered to research properly before they put their money down on the closest thing that everyone else is buying, they would find a breed that was suitable for them.

If that's dog snobbery, then long live dog snobbery. ;-)


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## NYCPoodle (Apr 30, 2012)

Poodles are tragically misrepresented. They are so athletic, smart and affectionate -- and if one more person looks at our spoo in shock and says, "a full poodle? are you sure?" I will explode!


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## Lily's-Mom (May 31, 2012)

_"The main reason I don't approve is because I'm acutely aware of the genetics problems many real breeds are facing."_
Strangely enough, a fellow I work with will not ever get a full bred dog of any breed because he thinks they have health issues. He will only get mutts because "they are healthier and not neurotic".
_"Buying a mongrel from a breeder contributes nothing to the future of dogs. The people breeding and selling these dogs frequently misrepresent them by making all kinds of wild claims about what they are like."_
That is exactly how they have brainwashed uninformed people to thinking mixing a poodle with any other breed will make it non-shedding.


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## Bunny (Jun 14, 2012)

NYCPoodle - I think there are tons of people who don't realize that a standard poodle even exists. I think "out there" people hear the word poodle and think toy, automatically. A small, high-maintenance, yappy thing that needs lots of expensive grooming.

When one knows _nothing_ about the breed, I can understand that impression, as that's what's usually portrayed in popular culture. I have a mini and people are surprised (when they see her) to hear that she's a poodle - due to her size and non-poodly haircut.

zyrcona - I totally understand your POV. I had no idea that these "bred" crossbreeds are so expensive! It is the passion and knowledge of people like you who will improve and preserve the breed. I can also understand, however, that someone whose expensive crossbreed (responsibly bred or not) is called a "mutt" could be upset by the term, regardless of the accuracy.


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

Lily's-Mom said:


> Strangely enough, a fellow I work with will not ever get a full bred dog of any breed because he thinks they have health issues. He will only get mutts because "they are healthier and not neurotic".


While it's a valid concern, this is a very negative and not exactly constructive response to it. :-( A mutt can potentially have any of the diseases to which the breeds in its background are prone and sometimes more. It would be more helpful to the health of purebred dogs to get involved with a breed and support breeders who test and breed responsibly than to just dismiss purebreds and divest oneself of responsibility towards them. Purebred dogs are what mutts come from, so if the health of purebreds is not paid attention to, the health of mutts will also deteriorate over time.

I don't find the terms 'mutt' and 'mongrel' offensive.  There's nothing wrong with the dogs, or with getting an accident mutt or one from a shelter. I find 'doodle' offensive, however, because it's a marketing gimmick that makes a living animal into a 'designer' novelty.


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## CMPB (Feb 15, 2012)

Bunny said:


> I can also understand, however, that someone whose expensive crossbreed (responsibly bred or not) is called a "mutt" could be upset by the term, regardless of the accuracy.


Upset or not, it is the truth. zyrcona is only expressing a private opinion in an open forum. The perpetuation of and investment in these crosses of dogs is doing nothing to encourage health and longevity of either breed and results only in irresponsibility regardless of how much is paid or how much the dog is loved and cared for. zyrcona makes a good point: there is no benefit save financial benefit. Any concerned breeder would invest his or her time, energy and effort in a breed of choice with the intention of improving the line from which the dogs came through responsible breeding in an effort to attain dogs closest to the agreed upon standard of that particular breed. Anything less is ignorance with good intentions at best and pure disregard at worst. 

And now I feel like a zealot. :2in1:


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## Clarrity (Mar 5, 2012)

I thought I'd share my experience. 

my husband and I wanted to get a dog but he and I have very different ideas of the ideal dog. I wanted the cute little dog and he wanted a medium sized muscular dog like a staffy but he said that we'd get a little one this time. 

I wanted a poodle but he had the typical public perception of a poodle in his head and thought it was an insult to his manhood *rolls eyes*. I tried to change his mind explaining thier intelligence etc but he was stubborn. 

Thats when I started looking at the cross breeds. For some reason he was ok with it if it was crossed with something else. I was very nearly set on buying a maltese cross poodle. But one day I took Dan to a pet store and they 2 mini poodles and also some crosses. The crosses just were not as cute and I showed him the cutest little mini poodle and he held him and said 'he's not so bad' and we bought him. He saw that it didn't look like the image that he had in his head of a poodle. (and btw the mini's were only $50 more expensive than the crosses, how disgusting is that!)

Sora has been such a blessing in our lives and my husband absolutely adores him! He's now defending the show cuts, explaining the history behind the cuts and their practical uses (protecting the vitals etc). And he brags about how smart he is and loves showing him off. He still says that he wants a staffy one day but I bet he'd get another poodle in a heartbeat.

I'm so glad he changed his mind because tbh I havn't seen a oodle that was as pretty as a pure bred poodle or as fun. Alot of them look quite weird and they all look very different so you can't be sure that they will stay cute as an adult. Not that it would matter I suppose, you love the dog not what it looks like.


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