# Pet Fooled Documentary



## canicheconnoisseur (Apr 24, 2017)

I was browsing Netflix the other day and came across a documentary entitled "Pet Fooled". It takes a critical look at the dog food industry especially dehydrated kibble and advocates for a more biologically appropriate diet. Naturally this made me curious about the BARF and PMR diets. I'm going to research them both in depth and hopefully will be equipped to make a decision on my future puppy's diet when I bring them home. Has anyone else watched the documentary? What are your thoughts?


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## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

I did like the documentary, but they used an excessive amount of scare tactics, especially the videography of food processing. Not all dog food is made using the processes they showed, and not all kibble is made from ill animals or roadkill. 

i believe that, like people, all dogs are different. Some will thrive on PMR, others on quality kibble. I personally feed a high quality kibble and supplement about 25% raw in the form of chicken leg quarters because i've seen the improvement it makes in my dogs' dental health. I don't have the resources to feed a completely raw diet, but in the future I'd love to be able to raise rabbits and chickens to supplement their high-quality kibble diets and add more - healthier - variety.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I haven't seen the documentary, but am aware of it and its POV. I will say that while I am sure some kibble is awful and that the preparation of such would curl many people's hair I think there are also many good quality commercial diets and that many dogs will do very well on them. That being said I did do NutriScan on my dogs to evaluate food sensitivites in relation to some health concerns. Since I wanted to keep all three dogs eating the same thing and each of them has their own things they shouldn't eat it was impossible for me to find a diet that would work for all three. I switched to a home made cooked diet. Personally I have microbiological concerns (for the people in my household) about feeding raw so cooked food has worked very well for us. It has cleared up almost all of the issues I was concerned about and has given me a diet that can be prepackaged if I am traveling with a dog(s) or if we are traveling and having other people care for them. You may also want to consider home cooked.


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## canicheconnoisseur (Apr 24, 2017)

Coldbrew said:


> I did like the documentary, but they used an excessive amount of scare tactics, especially the videography of food processing. Not all dog food is made using the processes they showed, and not all kibble is made from ill animals or roadkill.
> 
> i believe that, like people, all dogs are different. Some will thrive on PMR, others on quality kibble. I personally feed a high quality kibble and supplement about 25% raw in the form of chicken leg quarters because i've seen the improvement it makes in my dogs' dental health. I don't have the resources to feed a completely raw diet, but in the future I'd love to be able to raise rabbits and chickens to supplement their high-quality kibble diets and add more - healthier - variety.


I would agree that there were parts that even I, who is completely unaware of the pet food industry, knew that all meat was not sourced from sick animals. What did alarm me was how misleading the labels of food can be. I definitely don't eat like that and wouldn't want me dog to either. It's interesting to hear you mention high quality kibble, from watching that documentary it seemed that all kibble was evil lol. May I ask what you feed?



lily cd re said:


> I haven't seen the documentary, but am aware of it and its POV. I will say that while I am sure some kibble is awful and that the preparation of such would curl many people's hair I think there are also many good quality commercial diets and that many dogs will do very well on them. That being said I did do NutriScan on my dogs to evaluate food sensitivites in relation to some health concerns. Since I wanted to keep all three dogs eating the same thing and each of them has their own things they shouldn't eat it was impossible for me to find a diet that would work for all three. I switched to a home made cooked diet. Personally I have microbiological concerns (for the people in my household) about feeding raw so cooked food has worked very well for us. It has cleared up almost all of the issues I was concerned about and has given me a diet that can be prepackaged if I am traveling with a dog(s) or if we are traveling and having other people care for them. You may also want to consider home cooked.


I can understand the concern about feeding raw and to be honest I'm a bit nervous about it myself and will research thoroughly...I would hate to spread or catch something. I will also look into cooked foods, I think I want to feed bones though because I've seen a lot of people rave about how their dogs dental hygiene improved significantly.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Instead of bones my dogs get buffalo ears and/or salmon skins and chewing on those has significantly improved their teeth. For Javelin I found that it was much easier to scale what tartar he had once I switched to cooking since I think his oral chemistry changed along with the other things I had concerns over (mostly excessive ear wax for him).


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I will check out that documentary. It's very possible I've seen it, as I've seen several things like that in my research before switching to a raw diet. I realize that sometimes people are over zealous in their disdain over commercial food. I've been pretty much sickened by some of what I've seen and read. But the bottom line for me, "scare tactics" aside, is that commercial food hasn't been around that long, it's processed food and the companies are in it to make a profit, not because they care about my dogs' health. I've seen too much bad stuff, really scary stuff that it makes me afraid. :afraid: (for the most part) My dogs have thrived on this fresh, whole food diet and many dogs do. There sometimes needs to be a tweak or adjustment here and there but over all, my dogs have done so much better than when on commercial food. And no...no humans have become ill from the handling of raw food, just as they haven't from preparing human meals, starting with raw food...not in my house. And I know many, many people feed a raw diet without being affected by bacteria. We live full time with bacteria all around us. With reasonable cleanliness, most people don't get any major illness who feed their dogs this way. At least I've never heard of anything. I suppose if you're really careless...But then so can you get sick from raw or under cooked chicken for humans.

I prepare food for myself and family...when they're visiting. It starts out raw and winds up cooked. There might be chicken, pork, beef, you name it. I put it on a cutting board, some might get on the counter, in the sink, on utensils...it all gets sanitized and washed. No one has ever gotten sick. I don't buy food that is already cooked for the most part. 

Now...switch that to the dogs. I do the same thing minus the cooking part. The raw food gets cut, bagged, frozen, cutting boards and knives, poultry shears get used, washed in hot soapy water, counter, if it gets anything on it, cutting boards etc all get washed and sanitized. 

The dogs eat in their crates or out on the lawn. The gobble it up. Some might stick to the little hairs around their mouths or something might drop on their blanket in their crate. I don't wash those things every day, but fairly often. Not only I, but loads of people feed their dogs this way and have not gotten sick. The little bit of germs they may shed in their poop is in their poop. Unless someone eats poop, it's highly unlikely that they'll get some disease. Come to think of it, handling kibble is just as dangerous. Just think of how many recalls there have been for things like salmonella and listeria! What do we do? Wash our hands and their bowls. And be sure not to eat their poop. 

Eating a raw diet is compatible with their digestive systems. While dogs have evolved, their digestion has evolved very, very little. My dogs have never been healthier or had better teeth. Other than a non-related illness I'm just now finding out I have, I've never had any food borne problems from feeding a species specific pmr diet. 

As far as kibble, imo "high quality" and "kibble" are an oxymoron. I do have some I keep for emergency and to use sometimes on our walks. They don't mess up my pockets and they're quick to deliver. The dogs seem to like the crunchiness. So, a little bit. But as far as their main nutrition... I am skeptical. 

Yes, the mislabeling, the recalls, the cheap protein sources, inadequate meat, supplements added back in instead of getting their nutrients from the food, to me is not as good. Cooking destroys many of the benefits...not all, but many. So, those are the reasons I switched to a species specific diet that closely resembles what a canine eats when we don't cook and over-process it for them. And even though our domestic dogs have evolved with us, their digestive systems haven't changed substantially. They can digest some grain because they have some pancreatic amylase but does that mean they do better? I don't think so. I think it puts a strain on the pancreas. They have no salivary amylase so there's no digesting starch up front. They can't digest plant matter. I've been trying some steamed, pureed vegetables...just a tad and rather than for the nutrient value, I'm feeding that for the fiber value since they're not getting any hair in their diet, as they would if eating whole prey...not that hair is fiber, (only plants are fiber) but it acts like fiber. 

Anyhow, good luck with your research. It is more work intensive that kibble or canned but less than cooking. I just grab from my freezer some muscle meat, sometimes tripe, a small bone, some organ (alternate between liver and another organ) and a teensy bit of mixed, steamed, pureed, frozen in ice cube trays vegetables, sardines once or twice a week and sometimes eggs are added, plus a squirt of sardine/anchovy oil. No other supplements are needed with this kind of diet. imo. 

But correctly* balanced* is vital or a dog can become _very_ ill with deficiencies and die eventually. Almost any commercial food is superior to an improperly balanced home made diet. So do your research.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Well said Poodlebeguiled. What you do is almost identical to what I do with my Spoo. 

Mine also loves berries, so he gets blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, etc. in addition. I also make sure that the liver, kidneys, etc. that he gets is grass fed, or wild. He refuses to eat CAFO organs. Somehow he knows the difference. I wish I could afford to feed him totally grass fed.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I try to feed only grass fed and while I can very often find some, sometimes I can not...not on sale anyhow. lol. So we do the best we can. What is CAFO organs? 

Back when I lived in north Idaho, I had a whole long row of raspberry bushes. They were wonderful and prolific and took very little care. I could pick a big bowl of raspberries every day in summer. And while I picked the dogs would all come around and get some off of the lower branches and sometimes off the ground. But they didn't eat too many. Mostly they waited for me to pick one and give it to them. Now I see them in the stores for sooooo much money for just a very few. It really bugs me when I had ALL those many berries every day for nothing. Those bushes volunteered all over my yard. They came up like weeds in the lawn. I had to pull them from other gardens lest they take over. They were already there when I bought the place. I miss those raspberry bushes. One problem though...the bears liked them too. LOL.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> What is CAFO organs?


CAFO organs are organ meat like liver, kidneys, etc. from feedlot animals.

From Wiki - "a concentrated animal feeding operation (CAFO) is an animal feeding operation (AFO) that (a) confines animals for more than 45 days during a growing season, (b) in an area that does not produce vegetation, and (c) meets certain size thresholds."

In other words, confined feedlot animals often fed things that would not be part of their natural diet. Unfortunately the average meat we get in the grocery stores in the US is CAFO. 

Don't ask me how my spoo can tell if organs are grass fed or CAFO. He will eat most CAFO meat, but not the organs. I have tried several times when I had no choice, like when traveling or I ran out. He either totally refused to eat them, or will take a couple of bites and back up, sometimes even throwing them up. ...Yuck... 

I have often wondered. Don't our livers filter toxins and harmful substances? And kidneys remove waste? Somehow he knows and readily gobbles up grass fed organs. So now I won't eat liver unless it is from pastured and organically fed animals either.


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## Red lippy mel (Mar 1, 2017)

Thank you for your insight poodlebeguilded. I'm hoping to have a spoo puppy by the end of the year, so am only raw feeding my beautiful cat Kingston. He has the prey model diet-80% meat 10% bones 10% organs. Every two weeks I bag and freeze his meals, and I stick to animals he could possibly come across "in the wild" and could tackle on his own with regards to size. So occasionally rabbit but mostly chicken and small fish and eggs. Kingston does catch his own mice  I'm sticking to smaller bones, wings necks etc. 
I'm assuming you would consider bone sizes when raw feeding a spoo? 
I'm sure big beef bones are fun to chew but could be too hard and cause unnecessary wear to teeth? If smaller bones are consumed daily teeth should be spot on?
Sorry for lots of questions!


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## mjpa (Dec 11, 2016)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I just grab from my freezer some muscle meat, sometimes tripe, a small bone, some organ (alternate between liver and another organ) and a teensy bit of mixed, steamed, pureed, frozen in ice cube trays vegetables, sardines once or twice a week and sometimes eggs are added, plus a squirt of sardine/anchovy oil.


That's pretty much how I feed Rizal! Right now the freezer door is all his stuff in pre-measured portions and I just combine meat + bone + liver + kidney. I'll also give him frozen fish or sardines and egg every other day or so.

Pretty simple though not as simple as kibble, but he is so happy at mealtimes! It cracks me up. He dances around then sits or lies down (coz that's the rule) until I let him eat.

I watched the Pet Fooled documentary soon after it came out. It was obviously slanted but I did like it overall, specially in light of recent dog food recalls including the one where there was euthanasia poison in the food. It makes me feel that I can't really trust commercial food 100%. 

I don't worry too much about grass-fed honestly. If it's human-grade meat (preferably red meat) or bone without added stuff and I can afford it that's good enough for me.

I think doing this for Rizal is making me more conscious about buying real unprocessed food for us humans in the family too.


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## RD. (Jul 19, 2016)

Kevin posted back in Feb about this (cough-cough) documentary. 

http://www.poodleforum.com/32-poodle-food/224354-new-documentary-pet-food-industry.html

I found the producer and most of his factoids to be more than just slanted, some were down right idiotic. But then I feel the same way about some of the comments I read on public forums .....


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## kchen95 (Jan 6, 2016)

RD. said:


> Kevin posted back in Feb about this (cough-cough) documentary.
> 
> http://www.poodleforum.com/32-poodle-food/224354-new-documentary-pet-food-industry.html
> 
> I found the producer and most of his factoids to be more than just slanted, some were down right idiotic. But then I feel the same way about some of the comments I read on public forums .....


The idiotic extremes, unfortunately, seem to define the world we live in. The way our markets and societies are set up, you pretty much need to take an extreme position (e.g. raw food is the food for gods vs. raw food will kill your dog instantaneously) in order to be noticed and achieve fame/make money. I mean, can you imagine if there's a documentary that comes out that takes the viewpoint of "food is a tough issue without definitive scientific proof, so, watch how your dog's doing and make your best guess." Not only will very few people watch it, but practically speaking the movie would never be made because it wouldn't have the funding and support from anyone in the industry - people would fund a project only if they have reasons to believe that the project will end up supporting their position.

Kevin


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## RD. (Jul 19, 2016)

No argument there .....


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Red lippy mel said:


> Thank you for your insight poodlebeguilded. I'm hoping to have a spoo puppy by the end of the year, so am only raw feeding my beautiful cat Kingston. He has the prey model diet-80% meat 10% bones 10% organs. Every two weeks I bag and freeze his meals, and I stick to animals he could possibly come across "in the wild" and could tackle on his own with regards to size. So occasionally rabbit but mostly chicken and small fish and eggs. Kingston does catch his own mice  I'm sticking to smaller bones, wings necks etc.
> I'm assuming you would consider bone sizes when raw feeding a spoo?
> I'm sure big beef bones are fun to chew but could be too hard and cause unnecessary wear to teeth? If smaller bones are consumed daily teeth should be spot on?
> Sorry for lots of questions!


It looks like you're already in the swing of feeding your cat. That is great. I have little toy poodles so the bone size is minuscule compared to what one would feed a spoo. They don't even get a whole bone because I try to balance the meals daily. For some reason, that seems to work better for them than balance over time. For a spoo, one could feed chicken legs or backs I guess. Someone who has a spoo or larger dog of another breed could probably give you better advice on what kinds of bones work well for them. I'm really quite new at this so when I had bigger dogs I wasn't feeding raw.

One thing that caught my eye is that you're feeding necks. I would not feed necks from any animal in light of some information I've gotten regarding hyperthyroidism in animals who eat necks. The trachea that goes up the neck has the thyroid gland on top, wrapped around the trachea. The trachea can absorb some of that hormone. So, even if they're cutting that gland off, which in some commercial food, it was not found to be so, that absorption can cause serious illness and even death eventually. They were throwing necks into those big vats of slop they create kibble from. I use to give an occasional chicken neck, but no more. With my tiny ones, I feed chicken wing parts and chicken and duck feet. (toes) lol. Seriously, these dogs don't eat much. 

Oh yes...those big weight bearing bones from ungulates like cows are way too dense and hard...could fracture teeth. 

I'm no expert by any means. I just read a lot and pick up little tid bits along the way.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

mjpa said:


> That's pretty much how I feed Rizal! Right now the freezer door is all his stuff in pre-measured portions and I just combine meat + bone + liver + kidney. *I'll also give him frozen fish or sardines and egg every other day or so.
> *
> Pretty simple though not as simple as kibble, but he is so happy at mealtimes! It cracks me up. He dances around then sits or lies down (coz that's the rule) until I let him eat.
> 
> ...



It looks like your dog is loving the food you feed him. Eggs are great! One thing I noticed and am careful about is the amount of fish my dogs get. They get fresh sardines I get at an Asian market but only once or sometimes twice weekly. And no more. That's because some fish contains an enzyme thiaminase which can make vitamin B-1 (thiamine) inaccessible to the dog. This can cause horrendous consequences. Not all species of fish have this enzyme. I have seen so much different information as to how much sardines specifically have. But fish, imo, while an incredibly valuable thing to feed, should not be fed more than once or twice a week to be on the safe side. Cooking the fish destroys that enzyme. But if feeding raw, freeze first, then limit the amount of fish fed. (jmo) Here's some info for you.

All about pets and pet nutrition: Raw Feeding: The case for and against raw fish and specifically, what about sardines?


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## RD. (Jul 19, 2016)

Thiaminase is a non issue if one supplements their dogs diet with B1, or feeds other foods that contain adequate levels of B1. Personally I would be far more concerned about the source of the fish due to the risk of heavy metal accumulation. (mercury, PCB's, dioxins, etc.)


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## mjpa (Dec 11, 2016)

Thanks! I wasn't aware of the thiaminase thing. Raw fish is pretty expensive for me (I try to keep his meals under $3/lb) so he just gets some canned sardines (no salt) in treat sized portions.
I did find some cheap frozen cod at Aldi's and gave him a big portion this week (around half a meal size).


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Well, I feed my dogs _primarily_ red meat, as that is best for a dog and some chicken and pork and fish only once a week, occasionally twice.

It is possible to deplete the reserves for thiamine. (vit b1)

Here's something that might interest you Mjpa: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1680895/pdf/canvetj00569-0085.pdf



> Thiamine is heat-labile and water soluble and may
> be destroyed by cooking. Over-processing of commercial
> dog foods, the feeding of raw frozen fish, and the
> ingestion of thiamine antagonists have been implicated
> in causing thiamine deficiency in the dog


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## RD. (Jul 19, 2016)

> It is possible to deplete the reserves for thiamine. (vit b1)


While this is true, it's also possible for an asteroid to come crashing down on ones head. Possible, but not very probable. 

This is especially true in today's world where commercial food is light years more nutrient controlled, and nutrient dense, than 30 years ago when that study took place. 

Unless one is feeding fish every day, fish that actually contain the thiaminase enzyme, and not supplementing B1, Thiaminase is a non issue. 

As an example, in the north country, salmon is a key staple among dog sledders., and has been for 100+ years.
Wild Alaska Salmon Ranks High for Musher, Racing Sled Dogs' Diet - Fishermen's News

In the study linked to previoiusly, the dogs were being fed a staple diet of carp, and suckers, sourced in Southern ON.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Whatever...:yawn2: My recommendation is not to feed fish every day or even more than once or twice a week. A healthy raw food diet includes a varied diet consisting heavily of red meat.


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## RD. (Jul 19, 2016)

It's ok to have an opinion, I would just hate to see anyone getting confused between personal opinions, and actual facts.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Exactly. Hence, my posts, with reliable sources and articles to back them up.


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## canicheconnoisseur (Apr 24, 2017)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I will check out that documentary. It's very possible I've seen it, as I've seen several things like that in my research before switching to a raw diet. I realize that sometimes people are over zealous in their disdain over commercial food. I've been pretty much sickened by some of what I've seen and read. But the bottom line for me, "scare tactics" aside, is that commercial food hasn't been around that long, it's processed food and the companies are in it to make a profit, not because they care about my dogs' health. I've seen too much bad stuff, really scary stuff that it makes me afraid. :afraid: (for the most part) My dogs have thrived on this fresh, whole food diet and many dogs do. There sometimes needs to be a tweak or adjustment here and there but over all, my dogs have done so much better than when on commercial food. And no...no humans have become ill from the handling of raw food, just as they haven't from preparing human meals, starting with raw food...not in my house. And I know many, many people feed a raw diet without being affected by bacteria. We live full time with bacteria all around us. With reasonable cleanliness, most people don't get any major illness who feed their dogs this way. At least I've never heard of anything. I suppose if you're really careless...But then so can you get sick from raw or under cooked chicken for humans.
> 
> I prepare food for myself and family...when they're visiting. It starts out raw and winds up cooked. There might be chicken, pork, beef, you name it. I put it on a cutting board, some might get on the counter, in the sink, on utensils...it all gets sanitized and washed. No one has ever gotten sick. I don't buy food that is already cooked for the most part.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for all your information! I'm heavily considering going with Clarion and I read that she recommends home feeding over kibble so, for me, it is good sign that she cares about her poodles. You've given me a lot to consider and I will definitely have to continue researching for myself, but I'm about 99% sure I'm going to prepare my own food of which at least part will be raw.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Thank you. But don't go off of everything I say. I am relatively new to feeding raw. What helped me a lot in the beginning too, besides reading a lot of stuff was Prey Model Raw - PMR dog food They can give you more help. Or check out some other kinds of diets. Some people like to feed more veggies, some don't. 

Good luck with getting your puppy. Betcha can't wait!


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## kchen95 (Jan 6, 2016)

FYI Pet Fooled is now on YouTube for free:






Kevin


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## kchen95 (Jan 6, 2016)

So here's a "rebuttal" against some of the assertions in Pet Fooled. Honestly, if this is the best rebuttal there is, I'm inclined to say the movie is legit. 






Kevin


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I can't even finish watching her. She needs to read info from the Centers for Disease Control. 

How much human grade meat is withdrawn for salmonella poisoning for example? 

Compare that to how much kibble is taken off the shelves and with warnings for salmonella contamination.


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