# Are poodles hard to house break?



## minister man

We got our miniature in Dec, and I think she is getting worse instead of better! We have house broke large dogs before but it didn't go like this! We take her out first thing in the morning, after meals, every time she wakes up. She will go outside, and come inside and pee on the floor. It sure is frustrating! We can take her out, bring her in and put her in a crate, and she will pee in the crate. Is that normal? we always use to rub thier nose in it and put them out. I know that they say not to do that anymore, but it use to work at least! dogs didn't take for ever to house break. What do I need to do differntly???????


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## Brittany May

Um, you need to stop rubbing your dogs nose in her own excrement.

It will only make her scared to eliminate around you and she will go and find a hiding spot to do it.


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## Fluffyspoos

Where did you get her from?


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## minister man

she came from an individual that had a pair of poodles, said he only raised one litter per year, and the pup was vet checked and needled. 


I think Britany May needs to reread the original post. I said we ALWAYS USED to rub a dog's nose in it AND that dogs weren't this hard to house break. I am tempted, because I have to soon do something differnt! What I am doing isn't working. That is why I asked for your help


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## Rowan

First, rubbing her nose in her waste is counterproductive not to mention cruel. She doesn't know why you're doing it or why you're angry/frustrated. She will come to associate eliminating as a negative thing if you continue doing this. 
*ETA: I don't think Brittany May needs to re-read anything. I took your post to mean you consider this a viable training method which is why we both recommended against it. You said "we always use to rub their nose in it" and for all we know, you're still doing it since it "worked" with previous dogs. Your statement isn't very clear.*

First, has she been checked by a vet? If not, I'd make an appointment ASAP to rule out a medical problem, especially if she's a rescue. Also, make sure your crate isn't too big for her size. If she can wee in one end and sleep in the other far away from it, the crate is probably too big. 

Second, puppies need to go out immediately after eating, waking, playing, etc. You have to watch them constantly because consistency is key during house training. If you catch her in the act, don't yell or scream but calmly pick her up and take her outside and encourage her to wee. When she goes, use a code word/phrase like "go squirt" and repeat it calmly during the process and then praise praise praise when she's done. Puppies are a lot of work and they don't cater to our schedules and needs, but if you put in the time and effort you'll reap the rewards a few months down the road. 

Note: If you're crate training, as a general rule a puppy can hold it for her age in months plus one. So a 4 month old puppy can hold it up to 5 hours maximum. 

Here are some great tips from CPR (Carolina Poodle Rescue). You'll also find a lot of great tips on this forum. 



> House Training Instructions
> by Caroline Hair of Central Carolina Poodle Rescue
> 
> Dogs can be house trained because they are born with an instinct not to soil where they live and sleep. Most puppies begin learning to leave their bed area to relieve themselves when they are very small and this is continued when they are weaned and go to new homes.
> 
> Unfortunately, when a dog is kept in unclean surroundings, with no opportunity to go to another place to relieve itself, that instinct becomes repressed. When that happens, before the dog can be house trained, it is necessary to reteach this instinct.
> 
> Step one of these instructions is for dogs who have been kept in such small and/or dirty surroundings that the instinct to be clean has been repressed to the point that the dog wets or soils a crate. Dogs that are already clean for at least four hours or overnight in a crate may begin with step two. Your newly adopted poodle, _______________ should begin on step _________.
> 
> STEP ONE
> First the dog is taught to be clean in a crate. This is done by being sure the dog is taken outdoors every hour, and praised and rewarded for relieving itself. No bedding is kept in the crate, so that if he soils it, he will be very uncomfortable. If this happens, he is bathed, the crate washed, and he gets another chance to learn that it is possible to "hold it", and that clean is better than dirty. This is repeated as long and as often as necessary. As the dog learns to control bowel and bladder functions, the time between 'potty trips' is gradually lengthened, and the dog is introduced to the house.
> 
> STEP TWO
> When an unhousetrained dog first is allowed in the house, it is essential that he NEVER be placed in a position in which he could make a mistake. Prevention is the key to successful house training, and that is YOUR job. To do this, he is kept at all times on a six foot leash for a large dog and a four foot leash for a small one, and the leash fastened to a person. A large safety pin can be used to fasten the leash to the person's clothing. In this manner, the person will always be aware of what the dog is doing and can quickly take him outside when necessary. Set a timer to remind you to take the dog outside, first every thirty minutes, then every hour, so that the dog gets ample opportunity to "do the right thing" and be praised and rewarded for it. Every time he relieves himself outside, he should be praised and given a treat. If you are unable to keep the dog on leash with you, he should be crated to prevent accidents. After several weeks of this, the dog can be allowed off the leash inside.
> 
> STEP THREE
> When first taken off leash inside, the dog must be kept within sight of a responsible person (not a child) at ALL times. He still doesn't know the difference between another room and outdoors, and if allowed to wander off, he will make a mistake, and set the training back. Start by allowing the dog to be loose in the room with you only after he has just relieved himself outside. Use closed doors and/or baby gates to keep the dog in the same room with you, and watch him constantly. If you are too busy to watch him, he should be put in his crate. Again, set a timer first for thirty minutes, then an hour, gradually lengthening the time between outside visits. Only after the dog has been reliable in your sight for several weeks, should he be allowed more freedom. If there is a relapse in training, go back a step and try again.
> 
> If at any time the dog soils the floor, take him outside, then clean the spot so that no odor is left there. White vinegar, Odo-Ban, or OxyClean are all good for this, as well as products designed to remove pet odors. Do not scold the dog; instead, fold a newspaper, and hit yourself over the head with it three times, while chanting "I will watch the dog more closely."
> 
> Remember that prevention of mistakes is essential. If you allow the dog to have free run of the house too soon, he will go into another room to relieve himself. Every such accident will set the training back, causing it to take much longer. Follow each step in the training carefully, and within a couple of months, you should have a house trained dog. Even after the dog is dependable in the house, it is still a good idea to crate him when you must be away from home, in order to prevent any mistakes if you are delayed in returning, as well as to keep the dog from getting into things that could be damaged or could harm him.


There are many threads so I'm only posting a handful of links:
http://www.poodleforum.com/23-gener...long-did-take-you-potty-train-your-puppy.html
http://www.poodleforum.com/23-general-training-obedience/17901-potty-training.html
http://www.poodleforum.com/23-general-training-obedience/16323-house-training-n-apartment.html
http://www.poodleforum.com/23-general-training-obedience/16996-potty-training-reading-signals.html
http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/17728-first-day-doggy-help.html
http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/17587-potty-training-other-things.html
http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/16783-how-does-your-dog-let-you-know-he-needs-go-out.html


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## Arcticfox

minister man said:


> We got our miniature in Dec, and I think she is getting worse instead of better! We have house broke large dogs before but it didn't go like this! We take her out first thing in the morning, after meals, every time she wakes up. She will go outside, and come inside and pee on the floor. It sure is frustrating! We can take her out, bring her in and put her in a crate, and she will pee in the crate. Is that normal? we always use to rub thier nose in it and put them out. I know that they say not to do that anymore, but it use to work at least! dogs didn't take for ever to house break. What do I need to do differntly???????


How old is she? And how often/how many times a day are you taking her out? I got my spoo puppy late december, and in order to actually get her potty trained - I took her out EVERY HALF HOUR for a few days, then every hour, then every two hours, etc until now, 2 months later, we are going out every 3 - 4 hours and have not had an accident since I started this regime. Before I started taking her out every half hour, she was having accidents several times a week, often several times a day. Don't count on any rules saying how long they can hold it, just because they're capable of holding it, doesn't mean they will. 

Also, when you say you let her out to pee, are you going with her on leash to a designated potty spot? Or just letting her out into the yard? When you take her, you have to make sure she has actually gone to the toilet, rather than just ran outside and played for a few minutes. Don't forget to give a high value treat for going toilet outside. We have done this so consistently that every time Tesla potties, she comes back to me to get her treat. 

The best way to correct potty problems is to prevent them from ever happening again! If every half hour doesn't work, do every 15 min. ONLY give water right before you are about to go outside, remove access to water when she comes back in (don't limit amount, just when she can access it). If I took mine on a long walk, I make her potty before coming back indoors because it's been a long time since her last pee.


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## Carley's Mom

I would be sure you are taking her outside for long enough time. Don't get in a hurry even if it mean getting up earlier ect. Take her out at all the right times, as soon as she gets up, plays, eats ect. And you have to watch her!!!! It is not easy. When she starts trying to go off by herself and looking around, she needs to go outside. Then treat her. The main thing is to stay calm, don't make her feel that she needs to hide from you to go. Good Luck, it will come...smiles.


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## fjm

I suspect small dogs ARE harder to house train than large ones - they have smaller bladders, so cannot hold on as long; they can disappear into small spaces out of sight; the puddles etc are smaller and less obvious; and they are closer to the ground, so find going outside in cold wet weather more aversive. It sounds as if you need to go back to basics: put a big open pot of some really good treats right by the door so it is easy to grab a handful in passing, always take her out on a leash so you know when she has done something, and set an alarm to make sure you take her out regularly - plus never letting her out of your sight when she is loose in the house. 

It is possible she has learned not to go while you are watching her. I caught Sophy peeing on my curtains once, and was unable to stay totally calm and collected (slight understatement, that) - it took days of cooing sweetly before she was comfortable peeing with me close by again, and she still prefers her privacy if possible. A longer leash may help, or encouraging her to go under a garden table or bench where she feels safer. Mine much prefer the dryer grass under the bench in winter, and as no one wants to sit there at this time of year I let them go there. Once a spot smells right, it is much easier to persuade them to use it the next time.

What are you using to clean up with inside? It is important to use a biological washing powder, or an enzyme cleaner - many household cleaners contain ammonia, and that smells like urine so encourages the dog to use the same spot again.


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## kdias

I agree with Articfox. I use this method and it works, it doesn't give them much of a chance for an accident and it's very positive. I take him out often and I go out with him and stay out with him until I actually see them tinkle or potty. I consistently use these words and many times he will learn to tinkle or potty on command, (when necessary). Then, I have a container of small pieces of treats sitting by each door and treat him as soon as we come in the door. It takes up alot of time in the beginning, but is soooo worth it in the long run. They will soon be asking to go out to do their business so they can come back in for treat and a praise.


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## minister man

She is 21 weeks old. We have tried differnt things and have resorted to some things that have worked, Although I am sure they aren't best either. We have conquoured nights..... Sort of. We started out crating her by our bed and taking her out when she stirred, that worked for a few days, but we must have started sleeping through her stirring because she started peeing in the kennel on her blanket. So we started letting her sleep with us. She would wake us when she needed out, usally once a night. Now if we take her out at 10 she lasts the night until 6. So we know she can do it. It is winter here. ( -20 C), but she loves to go out and play in the snow. She doesn't seem to have any problem peeing in front of us when she is outside. but she may go again as soon as she is inside! or 5 minutes later! So we need to get her out more often, and keep a closer eye on her when she is in. She does tend to go into the other room and pee. My wife works about 2-3 hours a day, and it is not unusual to come home to no accidents. So I guess she just likes to go in the house. She doesn't always use the same spot in the house.


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## Olie

I never understood rubbing a dogs nose in pee/poo.....and in the days when this was accepted I believe the training that was "accomplished" was from pure fear. 

From your original post it did sounds as if you have changed from old approaches even if you felt they did work with previous pets. That's a great start!! I am glad you won't be doing that anymore. Hang in there and try not to be too frustrated as your dog will pick up on this and could even be peeing in the house afterwards because he senses your frustration. 

I like the suggestions given in regards to training and I want to add what I did with my small breeds and large actually.

Crate size is key when crate training. There should only be enough room for the dog to stand, turn around and lay easily. As the training improves you can increase the room. 

I set their crates up close to the door we would go in and out of to potty. For a solid month (maybe more) I took them out every 20-30 minutes and I never went empty handed. Get some great treats so when they do potty you can treat and praise. Once this showed progress I moved the crate further away from the door AND I stopped treating outside and treated once dogs came inside. Poodles are smart, they figure out quick what gets them treats. (I have heard of dogs peeing air for treats LOL) 

During potty training I tethered while in the house. This helps you keep a better eye on the signs the dog has to go out. Make sure the line is long enough to reach the out door so that the dog can start showing signs of communication that he has to go out.

Now are poodles are hard to house break?

Olie was 6 months before we started trusting him and 9 months before he was solid. He didn't go in the house often but he was by far the hardest dog to house train.

Kai was trained after 6 weeks of bringing him home. 

I believe temperament plays a part as well in dogs training quicker then others but that's another thread! 

Good luck!


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## minister man

We do take her out side on the leash, and when I put my barn stuff on, she runs to the door, she loves the horses and barn cats. can't go to the barn without her. If she poops in the house ( not very often) she usually runs out to where I keep my barn rubber boots and goes on that boot tray. :angel2:
Because she so loves to play in the snow, we also made a clothes line with a small rope ( complete with swivles) so she can go out on her own. She will play about an hours ( of course we keep checking on her) and then come to the step and bark once to get in. Those times she would probably come in and pee, because she was too busy to go outside. I guess we should take her out a few minutes after such an adventure. If she is home alone, and we take her right out when we get home, She won't go because she is so excited she hasn't greeted everyone yet, but if we wait five minutes for her to say "hi" then she goes inside. At least she is consistant, now that I am thinking about it, so that will make it easier to come up with a schedule.


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## fjm

minister man said:


> At least she is consistant, now that I am thinking about it, so that will make it easier to come up with a schedule.


I think you are right, now you have thought about exactly when and why she is doing it it should not take long to teach her. She sounds great fun and quite a character!


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## Arcticfox

My pup loves to play in the snow too! So we have a no potty no fun rule. Every single time we go outside, we go to her potty spot first, keeping her on short leash until she goes, then it's treat and play time! Similarily, we have a no dookie (our euphemism for poops) no walk rule. If she doesn't poop within 5 minutes of asking her to "make a dookie!" she goes back inside for another half hour. 

As for peeing when she comes back indoors, we have started crating her for the last 30%-40% of the time she spends indoors. For example, when we were taking her out for potty every hour, she would come back inside, staying leashed to me for about half an hour to 40 min, then back in her crate for the last 20 min. I don't know if this will work if yours goes in her crate though.

Tesla messed her crate twice, and after that I took out all the blankets/mats so she sleeps in a bare crate now. Eventually I'll put a bed back in there, when she's older and is 100% potty trained, and doesn't like to chew as much. Also, I've given her a bath immediately after crate messes (she hates baths), so she's learned that being covered in pee means it's bathtime. I think it's a combination of the 2 that convinced her not to pee in the crate again. Oh, I also moved the divider so that she had less space than before. 

I was also slightly harsh in my corrections if I caught her in the act - grabbing the scruff and a loud "NAH AH!" in her face while dragging her out. But she was never fearful of pottying in front of me because her only opportunities to potty are when I'm around unless it's in her crate. I keep her leashed to me at all times if she's not in her crate, it makes it much easier to monitor her for chewing and potty. So her options are either pee in front of me inside and earn a correction, or pee in front of me outside and earn a treat.


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## Indiana

Some dogs are just easier to house break too, it depends on the individual. Indy never had an accident in the house, until we got Maddy. Maddy took a bit more time to housetrain, but when Maddy had a few accidents in the house, Indy regressed and had a couple also. But they all learn eventually! Keep at it, it will be worth it  Also this period when she's really young is the shortest period of her life, soon you'll be looking back and reminiscing, "say, remember when we were so worried about housetraining? Boy THAT seems like a lifetime ago!"


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## minister man

We got through yesterday with only one puddle and no poo accidents. That is the best she has ever done. She asked to get out at 4 this morning, went potty and back to bed. So I guess I am starting to get myself trained a little better! thanks for the advice.


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## fjm

minister man said:


> We got through yesterday with only one puddle and no poo accidents. That is the best she has ever done. She asked to get out at 4 this morning, went potty and back to bed. So I guess I am starting to get myself trained a little better! thanks for the advice.


Well done to both of you! You know the rolled newspaper method, I am sure? You keep a rolled up newspaper to hand, and when the pup makes a mess in the house, you take the newspaper and hit yourself over the head with it while chanting "I must remember to watch the puppy and take her out, I must remember to watch the puppy and take her out!"


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