# need a little help, crate info



## Littleknitwit (Jul 19, 2010)

Hello...So Daphne girl is 9 weeks old and being a little bit of a butthead at night. She sleeps in a crate next to my bed. She whines every few hours so I take her out to potty. She always goes... Then I put her back and sometimes she whines and I ignore her. Few hours later she whines again. I take her out again, but then she is whining and barking and wants out of the crate. Last night I actually put the crate in my closet (large walk-in) because she is being really bossy wanting to get out.

What should I do?

I am considering leaving her in the crate downstairs... How often do they HAVE to go potty in the night? I don't mind taking her, but what irks me is when she went and then whines just because she has to go in the crate again. It's so NOT playtime at 4am! 

Any advice?


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I took Vegas out once every night until he was about 4 months old, but it was on a schedule when I wanted to take him out, not when he was barking. We went to bed at 12am (I'm a night owl) where he went out before, then we got up every morning at 4am and went outside, then back into the crate, then we got up at 8am to start the day.

By letting her out whenever she whines, you're teaching her that whining is the way to get out of the crate. When she's whining, wait for 20 minutes of silence before taking her out so she associates quiet with coming out.

Mine has been sleeping through the night without potty breaks (8 hours straight) since 4 months though.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Jager could sleep through without potty breaks since 14 weeks. 9 weeks is still pretty young, so middle-of-the-night potty breaks might be necessary, but then it needs to be back in the crate. 

Jager never made a peep at night, but the minute the sun started to come up, he was crying to come out and play. We covered his crate with a towel so it was pitch black in there and that helped tremendously. 

In the beginning when he would cry and whine in the morning, I would jump up and take him outside immediately, thinking he really had to go potty. But as he got older, I would ignore him and make him wait longer and longer between his first whine and actually getting up to take him out. Now, if he whines before it's time to get up, he quickly realizes that I'm not taking him out yet and settles down.

It was a process, though, and I was a little sleep deprived for a while!


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

I never take a 9 week old puppy out in the middle of the night. At this point in a puppy's life, my schedule looks something like this:

1. Late night play time until around 11:30.
2. Last potty of the night.
3. In crate until around 5:30a.m.

I extend this time every week so that by 12 weeks they are on a 10:30p.m. to 6:00-6:30a.m schedule and certainly by 16 weeks they are good to go 10:00p.m. to 7:00a.m. (Note.....I feed at 6:00p.m and take water away by 8:00p.m)

I would put her away in an area where her whining will not bother you. She will learn to settle.


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## Beach girl (Aug 5, 2010)

Every dog is different, but middle of the night breaks for a nine week old seems pretty normal. Perhaps you could limit water intake after say 9:00 p.m. to cut down on 2:00 a.m. walks. If she always does indeed go when you take her out after she whines, then she needs to go, so it's a good idea to pay attention to that first whine.

After that, yeah, she's just negotiating for some freedom! The towel over the crate is a good idea to keep it very den-like and quiet.

From what I've read, and from personal experience, it seems that most dogs make a big leap in bladder control around 12 - 14 weeks old. They should also be able to associate the command "Go potty" or whatever word you use by that age. I've also found that if you are training other commands, "sit" and "come" and whatever else, they learn how to learn, and figure out that words mean something, so also begin to pick up on the potty command as they learn their other training words.

My first poodle I got at 12 weeks old; he needed to go out in the middle of the night for another week or so, then was fine being in the crate all night long. Casey I got at about 15 weeks; he went out at night for the first two nights, and then settled. Pippin was an older dog when I got him and never needed a wee hours walk.


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## Littleknitwit (Jul 19, 2010)

I think I will try this, cbrand. That was what I was unsure of... I thought I had read somewhere that if they whine, to take them out because they may have to go potty. I liked her by me for the first week or so for her sake, but now i am over it! So sleep deprived. I'll put her somewhere else and ignore her for a bit. If she is old enough to go five or so hours I'll wait. 

I am a little hesitant to take water away since we live in AZ...but I definitely limit it. 

Thanks everyone for answering my post!


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## Littleknitwit (Jul 19, 2010)

I have done the towel over the crate thing too, I swear it just pisses her off. I think she's smarter than I. ha ha. She already sits on command and knows "go potty"... 

POODLES ARE SO SMART!


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Littleknitwit said:


> I think I will try this, cbrand. That was what I was unsure of... I thought I had read somewhere that if they whine, to take them out because they may have to go potty.


I start crate training my puppies at 7 weeks, a week before they go home so that they have a good start on it for their new owners. I don't let them out in the middle of the night and I have never had a wet crate. I don't think puppies need to go out in the middle of the night. I think they just train owners really really quickly. They whine, owners take them out, they learn that they get some attention at 3a.m.! What could be better! (except for the owners). I know a couple who have three mature Goldens. To this day, their dogs get up at 4:30 EVERY MORNING because the dogs were allowed to set that schedule for themselves. :scared: 



> I am a little hesitant to take water away since we live in AZ...but I definitely limit it.


Ummm... if you are like everyone else in America you and puppy are living the majority of the day inside in air-conditioning set to 70 degrees? This is practically Seattle weather. I don't see any reason you can't take water away at 8:00p.m.


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## Littleknitwit (Jul 19, 2010)

She peed in her crate last night... but she'll just have to learn I guess. We'll see. Should I just continue from about 11 to 5:30 or so with no out? What if she contiunes to pee in the crate? She is little, only about 6lbs...could that have anything to do with it?

I used to yell at my husband because he used to wake up and feed our Lab immediately. Of course then he started waking us up! We nipped that in the bud pretty quick though. Totally get the dog training the owner thing...  

We keep our air at 80. I can't imagine our bill if we kept it at 70. YIKES... I still think it is a little different here because it is so dry....you dehydrate quicker...but I think 8 is probably reasonable to take away water though... not any earlier though.

THanks for your help! Hopefully tonight will go better.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

6lbs? That is pretty small for a Standard at 9 weeks. How big is her crate? She should only have enough room to stand, turn around and to lie down (not even lie stretched out). If she has too much room, she will look at her crate as being "en suite" and she will potty in one part and lie in the other part.

If her crate is too large, you can use things like Rubbermaid tubs or cinder blocks make the space smaller and then enlarge it as she grows.


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## Littleknitwit (Jul 19, 2010)

Yes she is small. She was the smallest in the litter, but she has gained about a lb a week, so I think it is ok.

Yes the crate is probably too big... maybe I'll try to make it smaller like you suggested. It is a crate for a dog up to 35 lbs I think. Although she certainly "danced" around in her pee.


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## ziggylu (Jun 26, 2010)

We're in Arizona too. Our Standard Poodle is 17 weeks old and he's been home with us for 5 weeks now. We keep our a/c at 78. He was warm the first week because the breeder kept her house at 74 but he adjusted. We made sure he was well hydrated and did wet him down on the really bad days(he came home during the 115 streak we were having last month) 

I do pick up the water at 8...we're early to bed early to rise people so the pup is in the crate at 9:30 at night. He sleeps through the night and we let him out about 5:15, he goes out, comes in and the drinks water. We haven't had any issues with dehydration. I did the same with my greyhound when he was a puppy. 

As for weight he was 20 lbs at 12 weeks and 29 lbs at 16 weeks. He'll likely be a bigger guy from what the vet is telling us. Dam's line doesn't have a lot of big dogs but sire is 26" or 27" and our pup was the largest of the litter. 

The biggest challenge I find in AZ isn't the water but burning off the late afternoon energy when it's too hot to walk. Whew. If we ever have another puppy it will be one born in August that's ready to come home in October when the weather is cooling off and there's 9 months before the hot weather is back again for growing, training, routine building and playing!


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## partial2poodles (Feb 11, 2010)

I alwAys seemed to get my pups in Jan/Feb. I would go to bed around 11 and I took my hoode winter coat and rubber shoes which were placed carefully beside the bed. I would only wait 1-2 minutes of puppy crying, then I'd whip on coat, shoes and scoop the puppy up, run down to the basement and run down the steps into the frozen yard. Normally it took 1-3 minutes before being back in bed. I did this routine and included all the other dogs as well. I never had accidents only because I was neurotic with my puppies learning that OUTSIDE is the only place to go.


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## Teffy (Jul 4, 2010)

I agree with everything that cbrand posted. 

I too did the late night potty and early morning, no potty break in between, no water passed 10 p.m.. The crate was just right, only big enough to stand up and do a spin. Buffy never soiled her crate. It's the whole 'keep my den clean' mentality and whining means I get my way trick.


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## Beach girl (Aug 5, 2010)

I think it's very important to set the dog up for success, not failure. If she pee'd in her crate, then she's learning that she can pee in her crate! You really don't want that.

If she's so little, she still has a small bladder. What time did you take her out before putting her in the crate for the night? If you are asking for more than 5 hours of control from her, maybe that's too much.

If it were me, I'd suck up the middle of the night/wee hours of the morning walks for about another week or so, to prevent the crate accidents.

However, it is also important that these business trips remain strictly business - no extra cuddling, absolutely no play, nothing that is otherwise rewarding to her other than just the opportunity to empty her bladder and then go back to a clean bed.

She will probably develop better bladder control within the next two weeks, and/or when her weight goes up another pound or two. If she was the runt of the litter, she might not have been quite as developed as her litter-mates from the time she was born, so might need just that extra bit of patience until her system catches up.


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## kimstm (Jun 24, 2010)

Bella is 10 weeks old and sleeps through the night w/o a potty break. We got to bed usually between 10-11:30 and let her out between 5:30-6:30 depending on if my husband wakes her up while he is getting ready for work. The first week we had her she would wake up normally once a night but after that she has been pretty good sleeping through the night. We have a 42" crate and use a divider to keep it just the right size. I am in Louisiana where the humidity is awful and the heat index has been 110-115. I take the water away at night too. We keep the a/c set at about 77. Once the water is up, we have more down time so she will not be running around or playing hard and want more water.

Good luck!

Kim


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## Littleknitwit (Jul 19, 2010)

I am definitely thinking my crate is too big... it is certainly not huge, but I left her to go to dinner tonight for only 2.5 hours and she peed. I totally don't mind taking her out in the night and I never cuddle or talk to her...it is all business for sure. What drives me crazy is the whining and barking. She doesn't like her crate and fights being in there... I am trying all the stuff, feeding in there, treats in there, leaving door open. She just doesn't want to be in there...

I really think this is a bossy bossy poodle I have! Uh oh... I'll just have to stand my ground.


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## kimstm (Jun 24, 2010)

Bella's crate is 28 x 42. At one point I had the divider in there to make the crate 28 x 13. I did exactly what they said and made sure she just had enough room to stand and turn around. I have slowly adjusted it as she has gotten a little bigger, but it is still small. 

The barking can be so annoying, huh? I always make sure she has gone to potty before she goes back in her crate so that I know that isn't an issue. I think that sometimes you have to just shut the door and let her yap away till she learns that when you put her in there that is where she stays. When I first put her in her crate she did yap. I even had a post on here titled something like Crate training is going to be very loud. She does really well now. How long do you leave her out before she goes back in the crate?

Kim


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Littleknitwit said:


> I am definitely thinking my crate is too big... it is certainly not huge, but I left her to go to dinner tonight for only 2.5 hours and she peed.


This is very unusual. Is it possible that she has a urinary tract infection?


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## ziggylu (Jun 26, 2010)

I've been using a large crate, 42", the whole time with our puppy. It was the crate I used for my greyhound puppy many years ago and I can't find the divider. Our puppy came home older, 12 weeks, so we've been OK without the divider.

Given the barking and peeing after a short time I wonder if your puppy has some separation anxiety. I went through this with our greyhound. Are you only crating when you leave the house? Do you routinely put her in and out of the crate to get her used to kenneling on command? 

With my greyhound crating was part of our training routine. Several times throughout the day I'd have him go in and out on command. Usually I'd have him go in and out three times. Sometimes on the third time I'd leave him in for a bit and sometimes I'd just let him out and that would be it that for that point. I would crate him while I was home as well to get him used to being in the crate and not always associating it with being alone. I'd put it in a central place in the house, crate him, and then go about cleaning the house, etc. It took about a week for him to settle into the routine and be OK crated. 

When introducing him to the crate we went very slowly. We started with a small veri-kennel with the lid off, then added the lid and then a couple weeks later moved to the larger wire crate. As the standard poodle puppy was older when he came home we started with the wire crate but did the same routine. He's much more independent and has so SA issues so he adjusted much more quickly.


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## Littleknitwit (Jul 19, 2010)

OK, last night I stuck an upside down storage bin in there and it made the crate half like 2/3 as big. She can sit, lay down, turn around just fine... She did not pee in her crate...so that is good! She went to bed at midnight. I did take her out to pee at 2am though when she was whining. Then my husband got up at 6:45 and took her out.

I don't believe she has a bladder infection... although I am not sure how I would know... She seems to be a happy camper, goes pee fine outside, not having accidents in the house...but I'll definitely keep an eye on that...esp if she keeps peeing now that I have the storage bin in there.

The barking has subsided at night for sure... Last night was all quiet except for mild whining to go out when she woke up. I feed her in the crate... leave it open all the time... yesterday I did some training with a treat and told her "crate" and she got it and would do it but she was reluctant to put her back legs in the crate! She wanted to just go halfway in... 

Part of the problem is probably that I don't crate her enough during the day... She usually falls asleep on the floor and I just leave her there because she is happy. I'll do more of that today...when she naps I'll have her go in her crate... I would like to be able to leave the door open, but I know she'll just come out.


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## kimstm (Jun 24, 2010)

Hi,

So glad that last night went well. I really think you will find the smaller area will help. My spoo is 10 weeks and we do crate her a good bit still during the day. Once she has been up and played with and she seems to be wanting to lie down, we put her in the crate. I also have a bone in there she will play with some, but she pretty much just goes to sleep.

Kim


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## Mumzilla (Aug 4, 2010)

My spoo was mostly crate trained when I got her - in fact I think she must have lived in a very confined space. She would piddle everywhere - but not in the crate. She is a year old now and sleeping on the couch next to me at this moment, but she does go into her crate sometimes to nap. Whenever I have to leave her home all I have to do is say 'cheese' and she goes right to her crate! I guess I always gave her a little piece of cheese to get her in the crate without piddling on the way in, so now if I get cheese out of the fridge or say cheese, she runs to her crate!


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## poodleholic (Jan 6, 2010)

> =Littleknitwit;109277]Hello...So Daphne girl is 9 weeks old and being a little bit of a butthead at night. She sleeps in a crate next to my bed. She whines every few hours so I take her out to potty. She always goes...


Hmmm. She's a 9-wk. old infant who does not have muscle control over her bladder, so she can't hold it, she's got to pee. Sounds like a good puppy to let you know she's got to go, hardly being a butthead! 



> Then I put her back and sometimes she whines and I ignore her. Few hours later she whines again. I take her out again, but then she is whining and barking and wants out of the crate. Last night I actually put the crate in my closet (large walk-in) because she is being really bossy wanting to get out.
> 
> What should I do?


Again, this is a 9-wk. old INFANT, away from her mommy and siblings, and feeling very vulnerable. Instead of ignoring her and putting her in your closet, why not reassure her by putting your hand by the crate. 



> I am considering leaving her in the crate downstairs... How often do they HAVE to go potty in the night? I don't mind taking her, but what irks me is when she went and then whines just because she has to go in the crate again. It's so NOT playtime at 4am!
> 
> Any advice?


[/QUOTE]

My advice is to remember that she's just a baby, and you're the one who made the decision to get a puppy. Puppies require your time, and above all your patience. It takes a lot of work the first two years to raise a confident, well balanced dog. Getting irritated by normal puppy needs isn't going to be helpful to either one of you.


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## Littleknitwit (Jul 19, 2010)

I actually have an eight year old dog from the time he was 7 weeks old, and have always had dogs, so I am an experienced dog owner. I am also in my thirties and have two small children, so I definitely know what it is to have patience to raise a puppy. I have been absolutely devoted to caring for this dog one hundred percent. 

I can tell the difference between "I am sad and miss my mommy" whining and "i want out of this crate to play" bossy barking. She is an extremely confident and independent dog already. She is definitely trying to get me to let her out of her crate. She does the same thing when she is trying to get us to play with her (and she does it to our older dog too).

Like I said I have no problem taking her out to go to the bathroom... but she needs to learn how to settle down after that. And putting my hand by the crate only made it worse.


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