# Aggressive puppy? Help!



## geriluis (Mar 31, 2013)

My almost 17 week old standard poodle has been growling, lunging, barking and trying to get small children. I have a 4 year old who us very very good with him, and he's fine, but even today a woman was scared because Shadow went crazy, growling, showing teeth, a deep growl that turned into barking and lunging in a matter of seconds! It scared me, he's has been socialized and its surely NOT PLAY. I'm worried, please help!

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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

It sounds like a child did something to him. 


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think you need to contact a qualified, professional behaviourist (not just a trainer) ASAP. And in the meantime manage the pup carefully, making sure to give children a wide berth and not allow adults to approach him closely. It could well be fearfulness, in which case there is lots that you can do to improve things, but it really needs someone there to assess his behaviour. Look for someone who only advocates reward based methods - any kind of "dominance", "positive energy" or punishment based approach risks making things much, much worse.


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## Lene (Jan 18, 2013)

I think you need to take your puppy to the vet for a full check up... Sudden changes to behaviour could be caused by injury or illness...

Hoping you find out what's causing it...


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

PLEASE do not delay in seeking the help and guidance of a veterinarian and qualified dog behaviorist. Here's why. 
http://www.poodleforum.com/2-member-introductions/27026-new-poodle-mom.html#post321058


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## MaryLynn (Sep 8, 2012)

This is a very serious situation, and one that you will not be able to solve through research online alone. Your dogs life, and the safety of others depends on you. 
A qualified animal behaviorist, and a trip to your vet are in order. 

I agree with fjm, avoid any "professional" that utilizes "dominance" or punishment based training, as it could risk creating more reactivity in your dog.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I concur it is extremely important that you see not just a trainer but a qualified animal behaviorist. My trainer is one and I have seen her work miracles in a relatively short amount of time when the owner really follows her direction. I am so sorry this is happening to you. You must be worried sick. Please visit the vet and keep the four year old away from your dog until you get a handle on what is going on.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

*geriluis*: In case you aren't familiar with the work animal behaviorists do, here are links to two Certified Applied Animal Behaviorists in your state. Your vet will probably be able to refer you to someone, just thought this info might be of some help. Good luck with you pup! I hope you'll let us know how things go for you. 

Susan D. Kapla, Ph.D. 
Canine Consultants

Janice Siegford, Ph.D.
Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I hope things are going OK geriluis, I am worried about you and your difficult situation.


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## geriluis (Mar 31, 2013)

fjm said:


> I think you need to contact a qualified, professional behaviourist (not just a trainer) ASAP. And in the meantime manage the pup carefully, making sure to give children a wide berth and not allow adults to approach him closely. It could well be fearfulness, in which case there is lots that you can do to improve things, but it really needs someone there to assess his behaviour. Look for someone who only advocates reward based methods - any kind of "dominance", "positive energy" or punishment based approach risks making things much, much worse.


So I took your advice, as it turns out shadow has some fear issues, currently he is in a 'foster' home with his trainer and she is working him through it, especially since he's going to be a service dog. So far he's progressing great! 

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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I am so glad to hear this - we have heard so many stories where the owner has tried to struggle on while the pup got more confused and frightened, until things reached a very unhappy crisis for both dog and humans. It is wonderful that you sought out the right help immediately.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I hadn't seen this when you first posted. I am so glad to see that you acted promptly and are seeing progress. The advise to get outside help was spot on. Keep updating, we want to hear a happy ending.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Good for you that you took charge of the situation and got him the help he needed. Thank you for the update.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

Sounds like she may be going through her 2nd fear period. It varies from dog to dog, breed to breed the timing of puppy fear periods (they have two) but that may be what this is. Keep it very positive and she should bounce back soon once she learns she has nothing to fear.


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## geriluis (Mar 31, 2013)

fjm said:


> I am so glad to hear this - we have heard so many stories where the owner has tried to struggle on while the pup got more confused and frightened, until things reached a very unhappy crisis for both dog and humans. It is wonderful that you sought out the right help immediately.


Shadow is doing great. He does great around kids. Yesterday we had a family get together in the park and kids were running all around us. They even had lots of food within reach. Shadow did great! No barking, growling, jumping. He just enjoyed the day. However, the only issue we are still having is his being possessive over some small things. If he has something he DOES NOT let my 4 yo son get too close. He will jump up and move to a different area. My son is in a body cast right now due to a broken hip. Shadow will freeze if he gets too close to whatever he has, and gives a very soft growl. Almost the same growl as when he is playing, but this is a little different because of the way he freezes. It kinda scares me. I was thinking about having Landyn start doing 'trades' with Shadow (give him a yummy dog treat in exchange for what he has and use the command of either drop it or trade). If I go near them, my son can get whatever Shadow has because I am there, but if its just the two of them, he does the same thing. He doesn't show teach, has never bitten him, and doesn't bark. Just the Jump up quickly and move, pull whatever it is away from my 4yo, or freeze and growl. 
Any advice?
I haven't yet asked his dog trainer about this since she is out of town for a while.


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

Glad to hear things are improving! That's wonderful news.

With resource guarding (which it sounds like you're describing), you're correct in thinking that trading games are good. Resource guarding (RG) is thought to be rooted in fear / insecurity - the dog is afraid that his treasure will be taken away and does his best to keep it. The dog determines what is a treasure - so it may be things like pens, tissues, socks, etc. Not things you or I would fight about.

*But* because a child is involved, if I were you, I'd wait for hands-on advice from your trainer. Resource Guarding: Treatment and Prevention by Patricia McConnell is a nice blog post on RG and [ame="http://www.amazon.com/dp/0970562942"]_Mine!_[/ame] by Jean Donaldson is an often-recommended book on RG. Personally, I wouldn't expect a 4-year-old to attempt to take something away from a dog - no matter how friendly the dog is and how mature the child is. 

However, *you* could do trading games with him - this might have a general effect of making Shadow less concerned about losing his valuable items. It couldn't hurt if done properly. Read thought the blog post linked above for info.

Did the behavior start after your son broke his hip? Your son's "strange" appearance (because of the body cast) may be contributing to Shadow's behavior.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Firstly, it is wonderful to hear that Storm is doing so well, and a tribute to all the work that I am sure you have put in.

When it comes to teaching him to let your son take things, it is a little difficult, as you are trying to train a behaviour that will hold even when you are not present, while knowing that your presence changes things completely for Storm. I think that, until your son is older, I would turn things the other way up. ALWAYS supervise when he and Storm are together - if you cannot actively supervise, ensure there is a safe partition between them. Teach your son what Storm's stillness means - "This is MINE, and I will protect it from you!" As children we were taught to leave dogs alone when they were eating, or had other items they valued, and I think this is a very valuable lesson. As long as you are supervising and managing both sides of the equation, I think a trading game might work well - small children usually have an intrinsic sense of fairness, and I'm sure your son will understand that Storm needs to be paid for giving something special up. Just make sure that he understands that if Storm refuses the trade, or decides to take the treat AND the toy, he complains to you and not to the dog.

But safety first in all things - interactions between small children and dogs need to be watched and managed, for everyone's safety.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

One thing I would suggest it don't correct the growl. You need that warning. I also would not have a four year old take anything away from a dog. I love the swop game. I start this early and the dog always gets something better when he swops. The cast may be scaring the dog, nice spot cookie face. If you don't feel comfortable trying the swop game without your trainer make sure not to take anything in the interim. You don't want him to practice the wrong behavior. 

I am so happy you sought the proper help for your puppy. It sounds like it has made a world of difference. I wish all pet owners were so proactive.


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## geriluis (Mar 31, 2013)

cookieface said:


> Glad to hear things are improving! That's wonderful news.
> 
> With resource guarding (which it sounds like you're describing), you're correct in thinking that trading games are good. Resource guarding (RG) is thought to be rooted in fear / insecurity - the dog is afraid that his treasure will be taken away and does his best to keep it. The dog determines what is a treasure - so it may be things like pens, tissues, socks, etc. Not things you or I would fight about.
> 
> ...


THANKS SO SO SO MUCH FOR THAT BLOG ARTICLE!!! I read the entire thing and that sounds EXACTLY like what Shadow does. He has never been possessive of his food and water bowls or anything other than his toys and his bones. My son usually feeds him also, but since he has been in the cast he can't do as much. I havn't pushed the issue too much because I know it might be strange that your humans come home and your entire schedule is changed and your boy cries all the time in pain and can't run and play around as usual. He is very attentive to my son, usually even now, he will lay his head near him and just watch him oh so gently, that is why the growl and frozen stare scared me so much, Its just not like him to be like that. I really liked this part of her blog...
..."the most effective technique for stopping a dog from guarding resources from human intervention is to change your dog’s internal response to anothers attempt to possess their “treasure.” That is why you are best off using Desensitizing and Classical Conditioning to teach your dog to love it when you approach and reach toward an object. In other words, in this case you are not training your dog to respond to a cue, but conditioning an internal response to someone approaching something that they cherish."

I think that is what Shadow really needs is to be desensitized not trained on this matter. I will definitely start to follow her steps on how to do so, and I will talk to his trainer about it also ASAP. Shadow only just turned 6 months old and I was told that he was starting to get some attitude, but that its normal for his age- kinda like a teenager- to push his limits. I wouldn't change him for the world, but I can't wait until that Resource Guarding attitude is replaced with Oh goodie, My humans have something even BETTER for me! 

Thanks everyone for the great advice! I will also try to write in what his trainer recommends.

-Ger


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## geriluis (Mar 31, 2013)

So, Shadow's trainer said we have to not allow the growling at food, bowls or any sort of possessiveness. She said as soon as I see him freeze to be 'mama' dog and a light claw like hand onto his neck as soon as I see him start to react, then to make him roll over and 'settle down', to not allow it. 
I mentioned about doing the treat thing (mentioned earlier) she didn't seem to have much interest in it but said that that is good also (but to do as she said). She said his acting like that will cause him to be dropped from their program (being a service dog for my son). Does this sound ok? I personally want to do the treat desensitizing and get him to think, 'Cool, whenever they need to take something from me I get something better, its not bad- its GOOD!' 
Please, any dog trainers, dog behaviorists, or those with service dogs- let me know what you think, ANY advice would be greatly appreciated. 
She did say that for only being 6 months old he is doing great in his training. So far his only issues is barking at people or things that he is unsure of, the possessiveness of his things and learning to obey commands immediately even with distractions.


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

geriluis said:


> *So, Shadow's trainer said we have to not allow the growling at food, bowls or any sort of possessiveness. She said as soon as I see him freeze to be 'mama' dog and a light claw like hand onto his neck as soon as I see him start to react, then to make him roll over and 'settle down', to not allow it. *
> I mentioned about doing the treat thing (mentioned earlier) she didn't seem to have much interest in it but said that that is good also (but to do as she said). She said his acting like that will cause him to be dropped from their program (being a service dog for my son). Does this sound ok? I personally want to do the treat desensitizing and get him to think, 'Cool, whenever they need to take something from me I get something better, its not bad- its GOOD!'
> Please, any dog trainers, dog behaviorists, or those with service dogs- let me know what you think, ANY advice would be greatly appreciated.
> She did say that for only being 6 months old he is doing great in his training. So far his only issues is barking at people or things that he is unsure of, the possessiveness of his things and learning to obey commands immediately even with distractions.


I'm not a trainer or behaviorist, but my advice is please, please do not respond to his growling with assertive methods (bolded statements). You will only convince him that you are indeed a threat and he needs to be more aggressive in guarding his valuables. Re-read the McConnell blog post and get a copy of the Donaldson book.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

+1 to what *cookieface* said.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I would be very careful with my child. Just because he has not biten does not mean that he will not. My daughter's friend let her dog bit her toddler right in the face... her dog was moving away the child kept following. She was so sure her dog would not bite. Now her son has a scar on his face, and she had to rehome a dog that she loved very much.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I really don't like your trainer's approach - it smacks too much of old-fashioned "dominance" techniques for me, and not permitting growling means you leave him few safe options to express his feelings. I would work on changing the way he feels by offering Good Stuff for Poodles, rather than try to squash it out of him and have it pop up as a worse problem somewhere else. Lots of good advice above!


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

NEVER, EVER correct a warning growl. 

I have a dog here that was dumped on me because the growl was knocked out of him and then the owners could not understand why he was fearful and biting everyone at such a young age (less than a year). It took a while, but his warning growl is back and he no longer feels the need to protect himself or his thngs. We worked on trust and built a relationship based on mutual respect. THat, in turn, has turned him from a fearful biting monster into a happy-go-lucky dog that now gets along with other dogs (he ws terrified of them), strangers, kids, etc. I can take very high value items from him with just the promise of goodies. It's neat watching a dog go from stiff and scared to relaxed and trusting. He knows now that people are there to protect him and guide him, not whale the snot out of him. He was not 'abused' in the true sense of the word, but he was mishandled enough to be a cowering shadow of a dog. He now happily goes to run errands and visit. He calmly accepts grooming (which was a nightmare for the first year) and even allows us to color him for holidays and events and will happily come when called - even if you're holding a brush or comb. He is now confident enough to learn new things. Your service dog will need confidence and a lot of it. 

Work on trust and respect and you will be surprised just how far your relationship will go. 

Isaac will be 10 this year, he has gone years without feeling the need to RG, hide or defend himself. Even the growl is fading, unless you hit a snag while grooming and it hurts. He usually just places a paw on me now instead of a verbal warning and I apologise and continue on. 

There is no dominance/submission in a working partnership. There is trust, respect, compassion and mutual comunication. Listen to him and he will learn to listen to you.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

You might want to read this thread. It's lengthy, offers good bits of advice and has a happy ending.:clover:

http://www.poodleforum.com/23-gener.../8744-fozzie-resource-guarder.html#post110496


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

The person that gave you this advice is a trained behaviorist or are they just a trainer? I am neither but this advice seems to be counter to current techniques. I know my trainer, who is a trained behaviorist, would not agree with correcting a growl. Take away the growl and the dog is left no recourse but to bite. I really think this dominance nonsense just escalates things. I am not trained but to me it is common sense. She has already told you your dog's aggression is based in fear. How does this correction make your dog more secure?


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

Never correct a fear with harshness. I definitely would stick with your treat reward idea. Also, always keep treats nearby and when you notice your dog not reacting in an aggressive way in situations where he normally is, then make sure to reward him. Poodles are very smart and he will catch on to why he is getting rewarded out of the blue.

Another suggestion is when you notice he has something he may posses over when your son is headed in his direction , get your treats ready and grab your pups attention with positive praise. Divert his attention away from the object and if he drops it and leaves it, immediately reward it. 


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

We've already spoken in private messaging about this but this so called "professional" is giving you very dangerous and counter productive "advice". A growl is a warning. A growl is your dog KINDLY letting you know he's uncomfortable and DOESN'T want to have to bite you. This is him trying NOT to bite you. If he really wanted to bite, he wouldn't bother with the snarling, growling, lunging, etc. He wouldn't be putting on this show, which is a bluff. 

Again, if you do the stupid hand claw thing, no he will NOT think that you're his mother, dogs aren't retarded. They don't think we're dogs anymore than they think they're humans. AND you will be making yet MORE uncomfortable. 

Forcing him to his side and pinning him there is TRAPPING him. Why in the world would that calm him down? It will cause him to stop struggling because he can't win. That doesn't mean he's calm. That just means he's still. 

All this is going to get you or your poor son badly bitten! And your dog is very young and you're leaving very bad impressions on him that could last his for a lifetime and forever influence his behavior in the future. 

Don't you see what's wrong with all this?

It's instinctual for a dog to guard a valued possession. Something is great, they don't want to lose it. Makes sense. Make it worth his while to trade it for something better! When this is established, you can trade him for something lower in value than what he already has. Eventually, you don't have to offer anything in trade, a simple "Good boy!!!" will be enough because he will already have a positive association to giving what he has up.

You do this in controlled situations. Set him up and practice. It easily becomes a fun game. 

It works. I know. I train animals day in and day out. It works with any species.

I'm waiting for your PM so I can get you that referral. 

For the sake of your own and your son's safety and your puppy's, stopping following the dangerous nonsense your trainer is spewing. It's irrational and has no basis in behavioral science. You're setting everyone up for a very dangerous bite and a ruined dog.

I'm sorry if this was harsh but I'm kind of pissed at the advice a so-called "professional" is giving a client. I'm pretty sick of this happening. This field NEEDS regulation so that dangerous advice like this will stop being bandied around by self-proclaimed experts who don't know anything about the science and application of behavioral science. Clients don't know better since this isn't their profession but trainers definitely should! What exactly are they being paid for when they know the same or little more than their clients? Get enough leverage on a dog and you can bully them into suppression. It's not rocket science, ANYONE could figure that out for free if they wanted, and it gets you little better than a puppet. Is that what people want?

Sorry.


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## Codysmom (Jul 11, 2012)

I'm so sorry to hear about the resource guarding. Prior to Cody we had had a cockapoo that resource guarded and my youngest son was 3-4 at the time too. Please do not do any dominance based "training". I had had experience with trainers who recommended that and it did not have a good outcome as it made her even more fearful and anxious. With Cody I immediately started to teach trades as everyone here is recommending. I know Shadow is older but it's not too late. I would be happy to talk to you more, even on the phone as I really know what you are going through. Can we message privately?


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## Codysmom (Jul 11, 2012)

Hi, I tried to respond to your PM, did you get it? It seems like it didn't send.


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## geriluis (Mar 31, 2013)

Yes I got it


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## geriluis (Mar 31, 2013)

*Update*

So since I was told to start doing a trade or drop it with something better on hand and also since Shadow has never done more than the freeze and growl, I started to do what that site said and throw treats to him but stand in the spot of right before he is uncomfortable, which just happens to be when you are either reaching for it, or stand over his head. So we did that the day that I read it with amazing results, EVERYTIME he got up and walked to me for more treats, but I did like it said and waited for him to go back to his 'treasure'. 
Later that evening, I decided to let my son have a handful of doggy treats, I told him, whenever Shadow starts to chew on his bone or his toys for a minute, throw him a treat. He did PERFECT (he is very mature for his age- I think going through everything he has at sound an early stage in life has made him past his years). 
Before bed a couple nights ago my son was laying on the couch watching TV when out of NOWHERE Shadow gets his FAVORITE bone and drops right in front of him and sits! I was so happy. Gave him a treat a he gave it to Shadow. Yesterday we continued the process, but since my son is in a body cast and we have a very small house they come into contact often. So as I laid him on the floor I gave him a little baggy of treats, and the same instructions, 'If you see Shadow with a toy or bone say Drop it, when he does give a treat'. 100% success! 
Yesterday we stayed doing the same thing. Thankfully Shadows dog treats are small and we have a huge baggy full! Yesterday once Shadow was playing and he jumped up, I thought it was an RG time of a thing, until I watched and he was trying to play with my son but he was playing a game on the TV. 
We will keep up the same process of Drop it and reward since he is doing really well with that. I hope he continues doing great. I have also been keeping him tethered to me or something all day long to make sure he stays out of trouble. Just this morning since I was the only one up, I let him walk around and found him trying to get into the trash which has never been an issue before :/
I will update again. I am trying to keep a note of every time Shadow reacts to something we do, or what he is comfortable with so that we can help him more. I am so happy he is doing as well as he is. I hope it keeps up! I never imagined it would be sooo much work, I have had many dogs before but I have never had a dog with RG issues, I am trying SO hard- my whole family is! I just want us to have a happy dog that is obedient ))
Thanks to everyone for your constant support, I have really needed it!


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

So glad to read things are going well with Shadow!! Keep up the good work, but remember to go at _his_ pace, don't try to rush things  At our training class last night, we were introducing new equipment and experiences and one thing the instructor repeated constantly was to let the dog set the pace.

Are you familiar with calming signals? If not, you might want google the term to get a sense of dog body language. It's amazing how much dogs can tell you without saying a word.

Thanks for coming back with an update


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Thank you for the update that is such good news. Your little boy sounds very smart, a natural trainer. I am so happy to hear you opted for positive ways to work on this behavior. Your work is paying off big time. I think you witnessed a breakthrough moment when Shadow gave your son his favorite bone. The fact that you and the whole family is committed to put the work in is why you are seeing such a turnaround. Well done!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

It must seem very hard work - but it is really paying off! Just look how far you have come in the last couple of months, and how much better you are at understanding Shadow, and he at understanding you. Everything you do now to build his trust and confidence in you and your family is setting you up for years of happy life together - and it must be really nice for your son when Shadow shows he understands him and wants to share!


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## Codysmom (Jul 11, 2012)

I'm so happy that things are working out. And having your son so involved with the training is wonderful. I'm so impressed that he can do it at only 4!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I am so glad you chose not to do the dominance route. The trade up game will have much more lasting and meaningful results. Since Shadow is expected to be a service dog for your son it is fabulous that he is helping in the work to correct this behavior in a constructive way. It will help their team building.


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

So glad to see the progress without the dominance route. Dominance doesn't work. Fun and treats work all the time. It takes work I know. Charlie (the dog in the picture below) is not an easy dog, he was born afraid so we went thru scores of trainers till I met one who believe in fun and games. It takes lots of work and practice but the reward is sweeter than honey. 

I think your dog is on his way to become a service dog. Do keep us posted!


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