# White puppy color info



## Kblubyu (Aug 25, 2013)

I was interested in a ice white puppy, but the breeder I am talking to has one that she says is more of a vanilla shade (only 3 weeks old). Has anyone seen puppies this color and how white do they get? I wouldn't mind cream at all, just don't want an off color. Don't know if I am patient enough to wait for a future litter, but don't want to make a mistake since I've waited this long. I appreciate your help.


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## poodlecrazy51 (Dec 31, 2012)

We have a cream standard female. I think a beautiful color. But she has liver points,
even though they are dark liver and her eyes are dark brown. There is something about a white poodle with those black points that is breathtaking. So, I would like a vanilla white, as long as it had the black points. If you will be showing her in conformation, than maybe that will help you decide just how white it needs to be. I do not know how much her color will change
as she clears it as she matures and she gets her adult coat. Our cream is the same color she was all along....Don't know if this helps you much.


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## Kblubyu (Aug 25, 2013)

Thanks Poodle Crazy 51. I actually forgot to ask about points, although black eye rim s and nose was in my request to the breeder. She breeds black for show, so I suspect any whites would have black points. You made me feel more confident in this puppy so thanks!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Most cream puppies will lighten to white. There is white and there is white. You can't tell the difference until you have a bunch of whites standing next to each other. 

I would ask for the colors in the pedigree, preferrably with some pictures. My female Bonnie was cream as a puppy. My sister in law's male was cream. Bonnie turned light apricot and Chili turned stark white with only a touch of cream on the ears, which is still fading to white (he is two). They were the same color as little puppies. They are from different breedings. Bonnie had apricot close up in her pedigree. Chili had white close. Both came from two black parents. Bonnie had a black nose until she hit about 18 months old. Now it is dark brown. Still attractive, but no longer black. Chili's nose and lips are very black still. I don't think his will fade (because he is white). He also had dark toenails. 

The only way to stack the odds that this puppy will turn white without cream and keep their black nose is if the pedigree shows white poodles. The best way is if a white and black are bred together and you get white and black puppies. Those puppies will likely be white with good black points.

[pay no attention to that disheveled black moose. I was getting ready to wrap him when Chili came over to visit.]


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

My puppy, Matisse is white. He's now 16 weeks old and his ears are a little on the cream side. But the breeder said they will brighten up to a nice, bright white as he matures. With Poodles, the colors are a little bit of a guess, at least to a degree. That's what makes them interesting.

My other pup, Maurice is black with a little silvering on the insides of his legs. I think he has a little on his tummy too, but I can't remember and I'm not about to wake them right now to check. lol. Once they're asleep, ahhhh, time for me to relax. He may well turn out to be a phantom. It will be interesting to watch him grow and change. He's a doll.

Outwest, I love both those colors; the cream and the bright white. Beautiful! And of course, that striking black.


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## poodlecrazy51 (Dec 31, 2012)

someone told me to not feed or water my spoo from a fiber or plastic bowl, either ceramic or stainless steel. My cream was getting what I think is called a butterfly nose. Some liver with pink in small areas. (her eyes, eye rims, and lips have stayed very dark.). I swear, since I have switched to stainless steel bucket and bowls, her nose is now evenly liver. Old wives tale? coincidence? (it is summer and her nose will turn pink once it is cold outside and in the house?)


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## poodlecrazy51 (Dec 31, 2012)

outwest. You have a lovely poodle parade. I miss mine. Until last month, we had a blue, a darker cream, and a red. Now we have just the cream. sniff sniff. Who does all the grooming? They all look really good!!!!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

PS It is often a little harder for breeders to sell white puppies because most people don't want the white. I love the white, but they do look dirty if not bathed frequently. I would think you could find a nice white.

Grooming- Chili (the little white guy) is my sister in laws. She has him bathed every week by a groomer. It's cheap that way and he always is white. I do Jazz' shaving and some bathing, but he is being shown, so his handler bathes and trims him when he is being shown (I don't dare touch him with scissors). Bonnie is bathed by either me or the groomer (depending on how lazy I feel) every two weeks. It is so much easier to do it frequently. Once I got all the needed equipment, it's kind of fun. Bonnie is short right now for summer. Actually, they all look a little messy in that picture, but we just took it yesterday and thought it was a good example for this post.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I am sure that by the time the puppy is 8 weeks or more that the breeder will be able to tell you with a good degree of certainty what the final color will be, but you know it will take a year or two for her to clear completely.
The white that I previously had came to me with cream on the ears and the tips of the coat but ultimately cleared to pure white.
Silver is also a good color to have in the pedigree - it lightens the white and keeps the points black, as silver is genetically black plus a fading gene for the coat, so they always have jet black points.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

If I was looking for a white toy my biggest concerns would be that it had black points and was not a tear stainer - the latter being pretty rare in white toys!


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## katbrat (May 8, 2011)

Lexi is white and has great black points on the rims of her eyes, but her nose goes from black to brown and I really think it is because of where we live with the weather. We have no tear staining at all, never have. The really funny thing is I haven't bathed her myself in over a year. I bathed her after Memorial day and realized that when she is soaking wet, parts of her ears are a light cream. Bone dry, she is stark white.  They mysteries of a poodles color.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

I agree with previous posts, check the pedigree for whites and black points. I think black points are gorgeous regardless of what shade of white/cream 


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## Kblubyu (Aug 25, 2013)

outwest said:


> Most cream puppies will lighten to white. There is white and there is white. You can't tell the difference until you have a bunch of whites standing next to each other.
> 
> I would ask for the colors in the pedigree, preferrably with some pictures. My female Bonnie was cream as a puppy. My sister in law's male was cream. Bonnie turned light apricot and Chili turned stark white with only a touch of cream on the ears, which is still fading to white (he is two). They were the same color as little puppies. They are from different breedings. Bonnie had apricot close up in her pedigree. Chili had white close. Both came from two black parents. Bonnie had a black nose until she hit about 18 months old. Now it is dark brown. Still attractive, but no longer black. Chili's nose and lips are very black still. I don't think his will fade (because he is white). He also had dark toenails.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for all your info and the picture. You crack me up apologizing for their grooming--they look great!


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

It is a great picture of the 3 of them side by side! Isnt it? Such good pups! 


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

Not sure about the point and all that. But Edison here is cream poodle. I love his color.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Grin it is called a winter nose and occurs in many colors and breeds of dogs. Even my rusty black Shar Pei would lighten to liver color in winter and darken again in summer. ArreauStandardPoodle once hypothesized in a thread that the reason Apricots and Reds are allowed to have brown noses is so the dogs with winter noses could be shown.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

If the pup is "a vanilla shade" at 3 weeks, I think it is likely to be very white an adult. There are exceptions (Outwest's girl got darker), but most white/cream poodles get lighter as they get older. 

My Cammie is cream. She is definitely not ice white, but generally people at the dog park refer to her as a white poodle (no one says "cream"). Photos of her look white in some lights and cream in others. She was an apricot color when she was a puppy, with darker ears. The breeder knew that she would fade and registered her as cream. See photos below.

If you want a white poodle, I'd definitely go for the vanilla shade at 3 weeks. IMO, a "vanilla shade" pup should be registered as white, especially if the ears are also light.


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## Kblubyu (Aug 25, 2013)

Joelly said:


> Not sure about the point and all that. But Edison here is cream poodle. I love his color.


Love Edison's color


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## Kblubyu (Aug 25, 2013)

peppersb said:


> If the pup is "a vanilla shade" at 3 weeks, I think it is likely to be very white an adult. There are exceptions (Outwest's girl got darker), but most white/cream poodles get lighter as they get older.
> 
> My Cammie is cream. She is definitely not ice white, but generally people at the dog park refer to her as a white poodle (no one says "cream"). Photos of her look white in some lights and cream in others. She was an apricot color when she was a puppy, with darker ears. The breeder knew that she would fade and registered her as cream. See photos below.
> 
> If you want a white poodle, I'd definitely go for the vanilla shade at 3 weeks. IMO, the pup should be registered as white.


I see how different they end up being! Thank you!


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## Kblubyu (Aug 25, 2013)

Thanks to all the people who posted, most helpful!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Joelly said:


> Not sure about the point and all that. But Edison here is cream poodle. I love his color.


Gorgeous Edison!
I know that photo's can be deceiving, but to me he looks like he will be completely white when his ears clear - does he look cream in person?
No matter the color, he is a looker!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

peppersb said:


> If the pup is "a vanilla shade" at 3 weeks, I think it is likely to be very white an adult.


I agree. Bonnie and Chili were both about the same color as Cammie as little puppies and I would not have called either a vanilla color. They were both sort of orangey. Most will fade to white. Bonnie was a surprise, but when we really looked at her pedigree it was clear why she darkened. She didn't have much white in her pedigree, but a lot of apricot. Chili didn't have any apricot, only a lot of white.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Joelly said:


> Not sure about the point and all that. But Edison here is cream poodle. I love his color.


Wow! Edison is GORgeous! He looks like he will be totally white soon.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

outwest said:


> I agree. Bonnie and Chili were both about the same color as Cammie as little puppies and I would not have called either a vanilla color. They were both sort of orangey. Most will fade to white. Bonnie was a surprise, but when we really looked at her pedigree it was clear why she darkened. She didn't have much white in her pedigree, but a lot of apricot. Chili didn't have any apricot, only a lot of white.


And this puppy was Born a vanilla color- much lighter then the poodles on this thread!


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

outwest said:


> I agree. Bonnie and Chili were both about the same color as Cammie as little puppies and I would not have called either a vanilla color. They were both sort of orangey. Most will fade to white. Bonnie was a surprise, but when we really looked at her pedigree it was clear why she darkened. She didn't have much white in her pedigree, but a lot of apricot. Chili didn't have any apricot, only a lot of white.


Cammie has a lot of white in her pedigree. Her parents are both black, but 2 of her grandparents and 5 of her great-grandparents are registered white. She has no apricot and no brown in her 5-generation pedigree (brown can be associated with liver noses).


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Right. Bonnie's nose has turned dark brownish black (not really liver colored). In the standard it is still acceptable for an apricot, but black like Lou's is nicer.  Chili has dark grey/blackish toenails and the blackest nose, lips and eyerims I have seen. It is a striking contrast and very attractive. 

Does the puppy have a black nose, lips and eyerims?


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

Leif is a Cream. If I had to buy a Poodle I would choose White over Cream. Cream always looks dirty no matter how fresh the bath. These photos taken right after bath.


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## Kblubyu (Aug 25, 2013)

3dogs said:


> Leif is a Cream. If I had to buy a Poodle I would choose White over Cream. Cream always looks dirty no matter how fresh the bath. These photos taken right after bath.


Wow, he is gorgeous!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

3dogs said:


> Leif is a Cream. If I had to buy a Poodle I would choose White over Cream. Cream always looks dirty no matter how fresh the bath. These photos taken right after bath.


He is beautiful!


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## pinkteaji (Dec 7, 2012)

idk if this will help but when Shelton was a puppy and I received him from the service dog foundation, they listed him as cream though I think they only said that because of his ears. I thought he might turn cream when he grew older, though his body was white but his ears were very very cream so I thought that's what he'd turn to. 

Now he's completely white and has faint cream (but I think they may go away, or maybe not. You can't really tell sometimes but I definitely see it when he's wet). He does have all the black points (black eyes, black nose, black lips, black toes)

here is a picture for comparison


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

My girl is a cream, but you wouldn't be able to tell unless she was next to an ice white poodle. Though unlike a lot of creams/white/apricot/reds she's kept her pure black pigment, even at over 5 years old. I'll take dark pigment over body color any day.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Fluffyspoos said:


> My girl is a cream, but you wouldn't be able to tell unless she was next to an ice white poodle. Though unlike a lot of creams/white/apricot/reds she's kept her pure black pigment, even at over 5 years old. I'll take dark pigment over body color any day.


She is just gorgeous - and I very much agree, the black points make the white/cream poodle!


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

If you do trurly want an Ice White & not like many if us have which are Light Creams then as others suggest YOU must look at the whole pedigree for 4 or 5 generations & see White, White, white on it with some Black mixed in since Blacks keep the points BLACK. Maybe Silver too. Stay away from red, brown, apricot, silver beige since brown points are brought in or potentially can be brought in since reds can have brown points.
Let us know how your search goes. Poodle Pedigree at a glance is a good reference for color research.


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## Kblubyu (Aug 25, 2013)

outwest said:


> Right. Bonnie's nose has turned dark brownish black (not really liver colored). In the standard it is still acceptable for an apricot, but black like Lou's is nicer.  Chili has dark grey/blackish toenails and the blackest nose, lips and eyerims I have seen. It is a striking contrast and very attractive.
> 
> Does the puppy have a black nose, lips and eyerims?


Thanks for your response. I have't seen a pic of puppy yet, but it is out of a black breeding, so I think it does have black points. I hope to go see it in a couple of weeks. I have learned SO much from this forum! I would never have known to check these things without everyone's helpful posts. I have read back through hundreds and have spent this waiting time learning. Thanks to all.


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## ItzaClip (Dec 1, 2010)

The day I got vogue at 10 wks
Dirty girl out in rain at 5 months.
She is out of silver dad and silver beige mom.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Kblubyu said:


> Thanks for your response. I have't seen a pic of puppy yet, but it is out of a black breeding, so I think it does have black points. I hope to go see it in a couple of weeks. I have learned SO much from this forum! I would never have known to check these things without everyone's helpful posts. I have read back through hundreds and have spent this waiting time learning. Thanks to all.


Time will tell, but I really think that this is going to be your puppy!


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## Kblubyu (Aug 25, 2013)

So beautiful. What a difference in color, thanks!


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## Kblubyu (Aug 25, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Time will tell, but I really think that this is going to be your puppy!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Thank you! She will be about 16 weeks before I could get her. What do you think about that?


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Kblubyu said:


> Thank you! She will be about 16 weeks before I could get her. What do you think about that?


I honestly prefer that!! Lou had a lot of time with her siblings and mom so she behaved really well when I got her and training was soooo easy because she could understand my every command! She wasnt so little that she couldnt understand when I was happy or displeased with her!! I think I would never never get a puppy at 8 weeks old , way too little! Oh I got Lou at aprox. 3.5 months old  and she has been wonderful! I got Apollo later on but he was a rescue at 11 months old ( but he is also perfect, so maybe I'm just lucky hehehe  ) but I do believe 3.5 to 4 months old is the best age to get a puppy ( if the breeder is a good one and treats them well/correctly)


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## Kblubyu (Aug 25, 2013)

Lou said:


> I honestly prefer that!! Lou had a lot of time with her siblings and mom so she behaved really well when I got her and training was soooo easy because she could understand my every command! She wasnt so little that she couldnt understand when I was happy or displeased with her!! I think I would never never get a puppy at 8 weeks old , way too little! Oh I got Lou at aprox. 3.5 months old  and she has been wonderful! I got Apollo later on but he was a rescue at 11 months old ( but he is also perfect, so maybe I'm just lucky hehehe  ) but I do believe 3.5 to 4 months old is perfect!! ( if the breeder is a good one and treats them well/correctly)
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Or maybe you are a really good trainer! I think you may be right though. I have always gotten puppies that were 6-8 weeks old and I always had a nightmare potty training. Of course, I also didn't know about crate training. This forum has been a god send, and having had to wait to find a puppy has given me the time to do a lot more reading and researching...even things like Showing and Agility! I am going to go to several dog shows in my area over the next few weeks and have fun watching. Thanks for your thoughts, love your posts about your dogs!


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Kblubyu said:


> Or maybe you are a really good trainer! I think you may be right though. I have always gotten puppies that were 6-8 weeks old and I always had a nightmare potty training. Of course, I also didn't know about crate training. This forum has been a god send, and having had to wait to find a puppy has given me the time to do a lot more reading and researching...even things like Showing and Agility! I am going to go to several dog shows in my area over the next few weeks and have fun watching. Thanks for your thoughts, love your posts about your dogs!


Thanks dear!!

Yup! Every time the puppy poops in the house it kind of reinforces that he can do that because he doesnt understand that you do not want him to do that :-/
So Lou was very focused on me and looked like she was really trying to understand me, she is so bright! I taught her to bring her leash to me when she wants to go potty outside. She learned in 2 days!! (When she was a puppy) so.. I really am so glad she was a bit older. There is a video on my photobucket of her first day with us and my first correction with her when she tried to lick a newspaper on the table. I said Noooo. And she immediately gave me "I'm sorry eyes" even before she learned her name  it's really cute. (There's also a video of her bringing the leash first few times)
 http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/...LOUfirstvideo3mooldfirstdaycaptions.mp4.html 




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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Kblubyu said:


> Thank you! She will be about 16 weeks before I could get her. What do you think about that?


That is exactly the age that I got all of my girls at so I may be biased, but I think that it is the perfect age - their personalities are well formed so the breeder can tell you what they are like down to the finest details, and they are hardy and ready to go out and learn all about the world. And they are done or almost done with their shots, so you do not have to worry about sheltering them from other dogs!
It did not take more then a day or two to housebreak all of mine at this age! 


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Jazz Tazz was 16 weeks when she came home but Apollo due to weather came home early at only 8 weeks. NEVER again will I get a puppy that young. Jazz was just so much easier to house train and eager and ready to learn compared to Apollo who was still very much a baby.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Kblubyu said:


> Or maybe you are a really good trainer! I think you may be right though. I have always gotten puppies that were 6-8 weeks old and I always had a nightmare potty training. Of course, I also didn't know about crate training. This forum has been a god send, and having had to wait to find a puppy has given me the time to do a lot more reading and researching...even things like Showing and Agility! I am going to go to several dog shows in my area over the next few weeks and have fun watching. Thanks for your thoughts, love your posts about your dogs!


Oh they are still infants at that age - at 4 month they are really ready to learn!
Please be careful when you go to the dog show because of that new disease going around which they do not know how it spreads - take your shoes off outside, change cloths and wash up before touching any surfaces in your house!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Lou said:


> I honestly prefer that!! Lou had a lot of time with her siblings and mom so she behaved really well when I got her and training was soooo easy because she could understand my every command! She wasnt so little that she couldnt understand when I was happy or displeased with her!! I think I would never never get a puppy at 8 weeks old , way too little! Oh I got Lou at aprox. 3.5 months old  and she has been wonderful! I got Apollo later on but he was a rescue at 11 months old ( but he is also perfect, so maybe I'm just lucky hehehe  ) but I do believe 3.5 to 4 months old is the best age to get a puppy ( if the breeder is a good one and treats them well/correctly)
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Thinking back, the only poodle that I had difficulty housebreaking was one that I got many years ago from a Greeder - she was supposed to be 11 weeks old, but both my vet and I thought she was more like 7 weeks - she took several months to housebreak.
So yup, I still feel that 16 weeks is the perfect age. I might go a couple of weeks earlier if I had to, but absolutely NOT before 12 weeks!
But I have absolutely no worries about socialization with my breeder - my girls from her were great at 4 months and I have known several who got poodles from her at 6 - 12 months who had great personalities, so why not let her hold onto the puppy and do the work for me lol!


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## Kblubyu (Aug 25, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Oh they are still infants at that age - at 4 month they are really ready to learn!
> Please be careful when you go to the dog show because of that new disease going around which they do not know how it spreads - take your shoes off outside, change cloths and wash up before touching any surfaces in your house!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Oh my gosh! Good advice!


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## Kblubyu (Aug 25, 2013)

Lou said:


> Thanks dear!!
> 
> Yup! Every time the puppy poops in the house it kind of reinforces that he can do that because he doesnt understand that you do not want him to do that :-/
> So Lou was very focused on me and looked like she was really trying to understand me, she is so bright! I taught her to bring her leash to me when she wants to go potty outside. She learned in 2 days!! (When she was a puppy) so.. I really am so glad she was a bit older. There is a video on my photobucket of her first day with us and my first correction with her when she tried to lick a newspaper on the table. I said Noooo. And she immediately gave me "I'm sorry eyes" even before she learned her name  it's really cute. (There's also a video of her bringing the leash first few times)
> ...


Hilarious video, what expression!


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