# Weight Loss on Raw food



## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

We’ve switched Lucky on the Honest Kitchen months ago and he has lost a noticeable amount of weight. We had him on Fromm Gold before and did not think it was quality food. We feed Lucky the recommended amount according to the HK box. I didn’t realize how much weight he really lost until I shaved him last night. To be honest, it freaked me out a bit because I had supplemented his diet with Acana for breakfast and HK for dinner for the past few weeks. My husband said Lucky is always hungry after eating the HK but not after Acana. I wonder if this happens to other dogs on raw food. Do we just have to feed him significantly more than what the box says?


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## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

while i don’t have experience with feeding pre-made raw, i do know that the recommended “feed 2-3% of the dog’s ideal weight” doesn’t apply to all dogs, especially young and active dogs. Some working dogs eat up to 5% of their body weight a day, which makes sense since they burn it all up! 

if he’s thinner than you think is normal and he doesn’t have any health issues, I’d suggest increasing the amount he eats.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I agree with Coldbrew's assessment that what the box says is not necessarily correct for all dogs. When I switched from Blue Buffalo to home cooking I used a basic recipe that had been calculated for a 45 pound dog and adjusted the amounts for the weights of the three dogs in our household. It has been fine for Lily (who actually put on a tiny bit of weight) and for Peeves who lost a little (but needed to shave off a bit). I was giving Javelin what I thought would be correct for him at about 50 pounds. He ended up losing a significant amount of weight and now I am working really hard to get him to fill back out. I have upped his portions and also give him satin balls for lunch several days each week. It is going very slowly. I think he just has a wicked high metabolism along with his high level of activity.

If you feel Lucky's hips he should have the bones that stick up on either side of the spine well covered with muscle and subcutaneous tissue. That is the best place to evaluate an underweight dog according to my vet.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

My breeder advised exactly as others have written, use the serving size as a guide and tweak up or down. I can’t recall which PF member said they added lots of extra meat to put weight on their female that had been ill.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Thank you guys, I will keep that in mind. Lucky is very active outdoors and from wrestling around with Kit. It seems like adding Acana was not enough. We are going to up his total food amount. Lucky is doing well on Acana Wild Atlantic and is no longer experiencing diarrhea so perhaps we might have everyone on that from now on. We had not fed anyone else Honest Kitchen because he is the only one with the sensitive stomach. Lucky is the most active of all my dogs so it make sense that he eats more. I can’t believe working dogs can eat 5% of their body weight! That is really fascinating. Back when the olypics was on, I saw Michael Phelp’s diet and was truly envious. In one day, he consumes the same amount I would in a week.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

snow, professional cyclists during the grand tours (Italy, France and Spain) generally eat 10 to 12,000 calories per day, at least a week's worth of food per day, and they finish weighing less than when they started. Wow! I guess Lucky and Javelin are pro athletes with elite metabolisms.


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## kchen95 (Jan 6, 2016)

Yup my minipoo Vontae is another one of those pro athletes with a fast metabolism. He's 13.5 inches tall and around 14 lbs - up from 11 lbs when I first got him when he was 2 (he's now 2 months shy of 4). When I first switched him to raw and fed him the recommended 2-3% body weight, he lost weight. Right now, given his active lifestyle (we hike, catch frisbee and swim for at least one hour daily), he needs about 4% to maintain his weight, and I will feed up to 5% on days of especially rigorous workout (e.g. if we're out for 2 or more hours of all-out exercise).

I would recommend continuing to up Lucky's food intake until the amount allows him to maintain his ideal weight. Looks like you have a Michael Phelps on your hand 

Kevin


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Haha! Lucky as Michael Phelps. Lucky went psycho yesterday at the dog park and we’ve definitely need to double his food intake and give him some home cooking. I wish I was able to eat like Michael Phelps. I will keep him on The Honest Kitchen but might need to give him a much larger food bowl. The raw food mix takes up considerable volume. The recommended amount fills up all the way over the top right now. His food bowl is quite large but not XL. We are probably going to give him Kit’s XL bowl because she now has a slow eater bowl. 


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Also realize that for some reason most people overfeed their dogs. When their dog loses weight they think they are too skinny, when if fact that may be their ideal weight.

Check with your vet! I am constantly being congratulated by my vet on my Spoos slim trim line. She says the majority of people vastly overfeed.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Unfortunately, he is quite thin. His hip bones are sticking out and you can visibly count his rib cage.










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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

You are right for sure He is slim enough. What are you feeding him? Sorry if I am asking something you may have previously answered.

My Spoo is totally raw and stays a really healthy weight. I am referring to raw meat and fruit, not any kind of processed raw.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

He is fed the Honest Kitchen and I’ve mixed in acana. He was previously on Fromm and that stuff has a lot more fillers in it and he put on weight very quickly but with raw food the volume is large but it seems like he needs more. We were also thinking about putting him solely on Wellness Core with maybe 25% raw. Grain free usually gives his sensitive tummy diarrhea and gas so I must put some raw food in there.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I am not sure what to recommend. My Spoo almost died on kibble, so that is why he is on total raw plus fruit and some veggies.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

kontiki said:


> I am not sure what to recommend. My Spoo almost died on kibble, so that is why he is on total raw plus fruit and some veggies.




Oh no! How did that happen? I don’t know if all poodles have sensitive stomachs but Lucky is my only dog that has digestive issues. My other dogs will eat anything. I might just have to feed him a specialty diet.

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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

snow0160 said:


> Oh no! How did that happen?


One day he just started throwing up and having diarrhea and then quit eating and drinking. The vet tried to put him on meds, did hundreds of dollars worth of blood and lab tests, recommended so many different dog foods, all of which either came up or went out in the runs. Finally, after almost 2K in tests and hundreds in expensive kibbles, he had lost about 1/3 of his body weight and had to go on IV fluids. He just laid there...

I was so scared. He was/is my service dog. I had been doing research and finally just told my vet I didn't care anymore that she didn't approve of a raw diet. I had to try something or he was going to die. I got some chicken thighs, bone in. He ate one, and had no diarrhea and did not throw up. The next day we did the same thing three times. At the end of the second day he actually got up and went out to pee and came back in and drank water.

It took him almost three months to gain his weight back. Then we started adding other meats, which are now quite varied, .... etc, etc.

He also loves the most expensive fruits, in small amounts... raspberries, blueberries, strawberries, and fortunately one cheaper fruit - bananas.

His vet now supports raw.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Iris had a tough time retaining weight her whole life. The only food that worked for her was EVO which is grain free and VERY high protein. There are three different varieties so I could vary the protein. She ate it her whole life and while still petite and thin, was not underweight as she was on other foods. Other foods gave her gas and soft poo.

When I got Poppy I tried, Honest Kitchen, she hated it. Then I tried Acana and then Origen. On both she was ravenous and way too thin even eating 4 cups per day. On both Acana and Origen she had soft poo, not well formed. A little gassy too.

So I went to my old standby...EVO. Her poo firmed up. No gas. No starving dog...she reduced her intake to 1 3/4 a 2 cups per day.

I am sticking with that....it worked for 14 years for Iris so it's good for Poppy!


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

I went to look for EVO but our boutique stopped carrying it. I even went to a Petland to check for EVO and they didn’t have it either. I had wanted to get a trial size sample first but it seemed like it fell out of favor. I’ll check chewy. The only weird thing about wellness is the green tea extract


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Viking Queen said:


> I.... The only food that worked for her was EVO which is grain free and VERY high protein. There are three different varieties so I could vary the protein. She ate it her whole life and while still petite and thin, was not underweight as she was on other foods. Other foods gave her gas and soft poo.
> I am sticking with that....it worked for 14 years for Iris so it's good for Poppy!


Yes, EVO worked for my Spoo for about 1 1/2 years. But then he got really sick - see above. 

Every dog is different, just like people. Some of us can eat some things and do well on them, and other people may try to eat that way and do badly.

I am so glad you have found the food that works really well for your dog


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

snow0160 said:


> We’ve switched Lucky on the Honest Kitchen months ago and he has lost a noticeable amount of weight. We had him on Fromm Gold before and did not think it was quality food. We feed Lucky the recommended amount according to the HK box. I didn’t realize how much weight he really lost until I shaved him last night. To be honest, it freaked me out a bit because I had supplemented his diet with Acana for breakfast and HK for dinner for the past few weeks. My husband said Lucky is always hungry after eating the HK but not after Acana. I wonder if this happens to other dogs on raw food. Do we just have to feed him significantly more than what the box says?


Well, first, Honest Kitchen is not raw food nor does it claim to be raw food. It is a cooked (dehydrated food). 

Have you compared the calories you are currently feeding to the calories he was eating before?


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

snow0160 said:


> I went to look for EVO but our boutique stopped carrying it. I even went to a Petland to check for EVO and they didn’t have it either. I had wanted to get a trial size sample first but it seemed like it fell out of favor. I’ll check chewy. The only weird thing about wellness is the green tea extract


Chewy does carry it. Recently, our local store where I worked, raised the price to $70 per bag. If you go on the auto reorder plan through Chewy it is $60 a bag so that is how I get it. Also, because of their great customer service, Chewy will issue refunds if the food does not agree with your dog.

With both Poppy and Iris I tried transitioning gradually to EVO and each dog picked out the EVO kibbles and ate that while leaving the other food all over the floor or in the bowl. Funny girls.

If EVO is too rich for Lucky then I recommend trying California Natural. They are a quality food, same company that makes EVO, and have lots of variety from which to choose.

A tour of the manufacuring plant in Nebraska a few years ago was an enlightening experience. after going there I was so impressed with the care they take while manufacturing the food, as well as how fresh the ingredients are.

PM me if you have any questions.

Cathy


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Well, first, Honest Kitchen is not raw food nor does it claim to be raw food. It is a cooked (dehydrated food).
> 
> 
> 
> Have you compared the calories you are currently feeding to the calories he was eating before?


That is a really good point. Clearly, I have some issues differentiating it. We wanted to put him on raw to help with teeth plaque caused by the Fromm. The HK did not help with the teeth and I was wondering why. Duh because it isn’t raw food. We might just have to get his teeth cleaned. He isn’t even two years yet and has plaque in the back molars. The HK does wonders for his stomach. 


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

The aspects of a raw diet that are most helpful to teeth are the large, edible bones like chicken backs, legs, and turkey necks. Also large pieces of muscle meat that floss their teeth. Have you tried just feeding him a chicken back maybe once a week (with the skin removed)? What about the gel to help loosen plaque? What else is he getting to chew?


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

CM where do you find chicken backs? I feed drums, wings, and feet but those are the only bones she gets. I did find pork neck the other day but it was pretty expensive and I didn't know if it would be a good choice because I haven't ever really heard it mentioned.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Honestly...I pick mine up at whole foods. Not the most economical option..but..


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Lucky eats Himalayan yak cheese and that is about it. I wonder if my whole foods would carry this. I will check the local supermarket first. I think we might just move everyone to Wellness Core. My only issue with that one is the odd greentea extract that is in all Wellness products.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Just called the people at the supermarket and they told me to feed them beef marrow bones instead. They said the chicken back can break apart and cause blockages. Does beef marrow bones when fed raw help with plaque as well? I remembered Molly mentioned this before on a different thread.


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

Ah, whole foods! I wish we had one!! Of all our grocery stores, Walmart is the only one that has chicken feet, hearts and gizzards. I hate shopping there but have to now. Snow, it is my understanding that weight bearing bones in cattle and large animals shouldnt really be given because they are too dense and can break teeth. I definitely don't think they should be eaten, like as part of the diet. Maybe as a chew toy?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

snow0160 said:


> Just called the people at the supermarket and they told me to feed them beef marrow bones instead. They said the chicken back can break apart and cause blockages. Does beef marrow bones when fed raw help with plaque as well? I remembered Molly mentioned this before on a different thread.


I wouldn't really pay attention to what the supermarket people have to say in regard to feeding dogs raw.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I think beef marrow bones would create more problems than they would solve regarding teeth. As chinchillafuzzy pointed out they are very dense and there is a risk of breaking a tooth. Also I think they would cause excessive wear and I am not sure that they are the right size and shape to scrape junk off of molars anyway.

Raw bony bits of chicken or turkey like backs and necks are generally fine to give since the bones are digestible since they aren't all that hard. I don't do raw for a bunch of reasons and Javelin does have some tartar that my vet made note of last week on his annual wellness and vaccine visit. One doctor has shown me how to scrape his teeth with a dental tool, but her is really not happy about that so I ordered one of those dental sprays we had talked about somewhere here not so long ago. He clearly doesn't like it as a spray, but tolerates it if I pour some on a gauze pad and use that in place of a tooth brushing (which none of our dogs is good about). I am starting to see improvement even in just a week.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Those dental sprays work? I purchased one a long time ago with Sahara and used it for a week but didn't see much improvement. I stopped using it because it made Sahara angry and I didn't want to get bitten. We had also received the solution you add to their water but unfortunately, it gives them diarrhea. Hm... I might just get our nonanesthetic dog teeth lady to do Lucky's molars. She is a miracle worker. 

I might also try the chicken parts because what you said about their softness makes sense. Thank you for the explanation.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

snow I will update you about the dental spray and give you the information for the specific one I am using if I think it is worth it for you to try it.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Buck has never had a problem with chicken necks. He’s been eating them since he was a puppy. I order them by the case from HEB, a Texas chain. When I was switching kibbles, they were all I could count on that he would eat. I use towels, tongs and a dedicated metal tray and Buck wears a snood. I always tip the butchers and tell them to buy a coffee.


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

Snow which of the honest kitchen foods are you feeding Lucky? I home cook and add hk to their meals, for breakfast I use the "complete meal) and I add the "base mix" to their lunch and dinner. I have noticed that Abbey has lost weight over the past few months, but she does a lot of swimming during summer so I figure that's probably the reason. For breakfast i add fruit to their "complete meal" everyday and alternate other things like Greek yogurt, kifer, an egg or even pasta. Abbey is getting more of these extras right now to hopefully gain some weight back. For lunch and dinner they have home cooked protein with the "base mix", and whatever else I've cooked that week, vegies, rice, pasta etc. One meal a day gets a dose of krill oil, probiotic, ground eggshell and a sprinkle of a powder tarter cleaner. It sounds like a lot of bother, but it's not really. I've always been scared of choking with chicken necks, it sounds like they really work on teeth cleaning and I should give them a try. I do give the girls marrow bones, which they love and they actually do help with the teeth cleaning although probably not as good as the necks. I scoop out some of the marrow first so they don't get too much of that. They also love bully sticks to chew on, and I give them a dental stick most days too. I use the same type of thing as lily for Abbey's teeth in particular, only mine is a gel instead of a spray. Dolly lets me brush her teeth so I don't use the gel on her as often. 
It can be worrisome when they loose weight, I know I was shocked how all of a sudden it seemed Abbey lost weight.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Lucky is on the grain free chicken and I mix in the Acana. Lucky ADORES the HK and he eats a lot of it. I can make things in batches and freeze them but my problem is that I don’t enjoy cooking. I like baking but don’t enjoy using the burner. It is kinda odd. Right now I am on a smoothie/ juice kick. Both Lucky and Kit really enjoy it when I make my morning smoothies. I drop kale on the floor sometimes and they really enjoy the leafy greens. I am pretty surprised by this because our previous doggy never ate any veggies or fruits. I might go back to the grocery store today and get some chicken neck to help with his teeth. Lucky is even more active now that he is shaved down. Not sure how he is going to keep weight on given his increase energy level. He also does poorly on high protein kibble, which is recommended for active dogs like him. It gives him diarrhea. HK has only 24% protein which is probably why he does so well on it.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

I just got Lucky some chicken back and he ate it up and loved it. From everything I’ve read online, I think feeding raw uncooked meat seems like an excellent supplement to his existing food. It is suppose to improve coat, get rid of plaque, and be great for their digestion. These are all the things I look for when I feed Lucky a new food. The chicken backs were so cheap that if this works to get rid of plaque, it saved so much money at the vet. Thank you guys so much for the priceless recommendation.


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