# Amala and Lumi - Happily Home Alone!



## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

seems to be working, doesn't it? isn't the reward, though, always physically paired with your presence? my dog used to howl when ieft. i started giving him treats just before i left; they became a signal that i was leaving, but the end result was that he actually started looking forward (!!!) to my departure and the howling stopped. when my mother was alive, he would see that i was getting dressed to go out and scurry down to my mother's room to check on her progress, too. nothing like being hurried out the door by your dog!


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

*Patk*, you're right, it is! I don't argue with results, though, so since their length of time being alone and calm is extending, I'm not going to question it! Haha The marker, I think, is pretty key here. It teaches them that waiting for a glimpse of me, or trying to seek me out, is not necessary for my return or any other type of reward. Simply being away from me is the condition for earning rewards, including the reward of my return!! I don't mind at all if they think of my return as a reward, so long as they're learning that being relaxed without me is part of the pattern that predicts the reunion. : ) I know a lot of separation training is based solely on rewarding the dog with the owner's return, but I love giving treats and the dogs seem to enjoy it, too! : P 

Eventually, I figure I can just leave out the clicker as the association will be made that my leaving predicts the clicker which predicts the reward. So the clicker can be removed from the association to leave the dogs thinking "Mom's absence predicts positive feelings". I love the way dogs think with their emotions. : )

I can't wait until they become like your pup and get excited at the signs of my departure! Just today I started adding unlocking the front door while the dogs are settled in the kitchen. That usually gets them to their feet, but today they just decided to play it cool and lie in their bed. Yays!!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Good for you! Whatever works for you, and if your end results are what you wanted, then it's all good! Happy training!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I will have to try this. Swizzle is fine with me leaving the house, he often gets a raw bone so it is a case of hurry up and get out of here. If I go to the bathroom or upstairs without him he barks for a couple of minutes or jumps up and down. I have not used a clicker before but it could probably help me with this.


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## Lily's-Mom (May 31, 2012)

Looks like they are very calm and relaxed about your leaving the room. Good job!


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## AleKaiRowdie (Mar 25, 2014)

They're doin well! You are workin hard to help them deal. Good work-you should give yourself a reward! Got any people treats? Lol


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Always enlightening and inspiring to watch you work with Lumi and Amala. I continue to marvel at the inventive and patient way you train. And your keen awareness of girls' emotional state. I see success coming your way, yet again! Chagall is very comfortable with my comings and goings because he anticipates a food stuffed Kong or Planet Dog food dispensing ball to make up for my absence. Regrettably, food doesn't soothe MY separation anxiety one bit when I'm away from him.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

You have such patience, building up in small steps in exactly the best way for your dogs. I have a bad habit of trying to jump ahead... Looks like you are making excellent progress, yet again!

I taught mine a cue for when I was going out without them - like you, I am at home with them most of the time, so they are used to being able to follow wherever I go. They begin to get excited at the first sign of my getting ready to go out, so I taught them "Stay and be good", which gets me sighs, and sad eyes, and drooping ears, and general guilt inducing behaviour, but also means they have settled down before I am even out of the door. I also use it if I am taking just one dog, which can be stickier than leaving them both together.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Good job! They look quite content and relaxed!


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Time for an update! Progress has been slow and steady! I can now leave the girls in the kitchen as in the video for as long as FIVE MINUTES without them feeling the need to get up and investigate. Wow! It may seem like a short time, but when you spend three years not being able to pee without a dog either watching you, or nervously trembling the entire time outside the bathroom door, then you realize five minutes is a huge achievement! I see that I didn't post an actual time in the first post, but 2 minutes was about the longest they'd stay put on their beds without me. I'll have to make a new, and very boring, video of the girls just lying on their bed for five minutes when I'm not in the room. : P

I honestly have not been putting much effort into this training, as it's a bit stressful for me to focus on their anxiety, due to *my* anxiety! Hahaha I've kept the same routine I described in the first post of having them barricaded in the kitchen while I cook and clean in there, and keeping a clicker and treats handy for any time I have to leave the room. We're actually making progress simply by taking advantage of regular chores, like when I leave the room to scoop the cat box, change the bed sheets, tidy the living room, etc. Our old routine would just involve the dogs following me around while I did those things, usually all in one 10 to 20 minute sweep. Now I just make a point to do these little things individually as they're perfect training moments for the dogs, and my housework gets done without me really noticing. : P In the beginning, I'd even have to break some chores up. Putting sheets on the bed might require me to just put on the fitted sheet then click and return to the dogs, and a few minutes later leave again to put on the top sheet. They also can now handle me coming and going in quick succession. In the beginning after I returned, the dogs would both watch me very closely for the next few minutes, and if I tried to take another outing they'd already be a little wary and sometimes get up and try to follow me. Now they seem very relaxed to have me come and go back and forth. Sometimes they don't even pick their heads up from their blanket until they see the treat coming towards them! : )

About a week ago I set a daily training goal for myself, since I really need to overcome my own anxiety about this in order to teach them to be left lone in other settings or situations. And also, so we can pick up speed with this! My goal for the next month is to do one "10-click" session each day with them in their metal crates. Those are the crates they go in when I actually leave them alone. The only rule is that I click and treat ten times while they're in their crates. I can do it while standing right in front of their crates with the doors unlatched, or I can walk out of sight and reward them for whatever length of times seems appropriate. This way I can make it short and sweet on days that I feel a little anxious, or we can take it to the limit on days when we're all confident about it. Even the quickest, easiest treat deliveries will still be a good experience for all of us so there can be no harm done! It's much more to re-train *myself* to feel confident doing separation work with them, and break the habit of avoiding such training. There is no reason I can't find the time and courage to hand out ten treats on even the busiest or most stressful days! I decided I'll do this for a month, and then reassess. Hopefully I'll be able to commit to even more then, like 2 sessions a day! For now I'm just making it super easy so I'll practice sticking with it!

And, I've already seen a positive result from this. Today I had to leave the girls so I could grocery shop. When I return from an outing like that, Amala is usually really wound up and won't even eat treats for a minute or two, and then continues to pant, pace, and whine for about 5 to 10 minutes after my return. So, today when I returned I let them out of her crate and offered treats which, like usual, Lumi ate and Amala spat on the floor. However, Lumi must've remembered all the treats she's been getting in her crate lately, and I suppose since I just gave her one and we were next to the crates she thought it'd be a god time for a little session. She just walked right back in and lied down and looked up at me expectantly. Haha So, I gave her another one and when Amala saw Lumi lying in her crate and getting a treat, she darted into her own crate and lied down! So, I gave her a treat, too, which she gobbled right up! This was about 5 seconds after she'd just declined a treat and had been whining and panting at my feet. So, we just had a spontaneous and short training session - about ten treats while I opened and closed their doors a few times, then cued them to come out and said "That's all!" like I do when I end a session. Amala wasn't even panting! She came out almost completely herself! She was a little bit "fidgety", just sort not sure where to be or what to do, but dialed waayy down. Really, pretty normal behavior for any dog who's just experienced something exciting or upsetting. That was just so amazing! She snapped right out of her mood when she just went through the motions we've been practicing every day. So proud of her, and excited to see more results as we stick with this!


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

Wow! Huge congratulations! You know your girls so well, and this tailored training shows what a great job you are doing with them. Well done and keep us updated on the progress!


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

Wow! So proud of you and the girls! Any kind of anxiety is absolutely the pits!


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Here's a new video of the girls all alone! Soon I'm going to have to start speeding up the intervals as they'll just be too looooonnng to sit and watch in real time!! :bounce:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KDlUCed3AU


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## plr (Oct 20, 2012)

PP: It's great to watch your progress. It's an inspiration.


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## Wild Kitten (Mar 13, 2014)

Great to read about your progress..... and I'm making notes too because I will need to do this with Lucia  

Good luck to you all


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Little change since my last post, but I just noticed it's been over two weeks since I committed to a daily training session in their metal crates, and I'm proud of my own achievement! : P This used to be a potential trigger for my anxiety and now it's a daily routine I enjoy! They're coming along very slowly with these crates since they do actually experience be left alone in them for hours when I leave the house. But, they *are* coming along! Now they happily bound in when it's training time and we've gotten as far as latching them in without anxiety. These are also the crates I put them in when our grooming clients arrive, which always provokes a little fear and barking, so they're understandably wary. Just one session a day may not be enough to combat the negative associations, but I am just feeling so good now that I'm sticking with it! We can build on this over time. : ) 

I've also just added another daily goal, which is a second 10-click session of teaching them to wait alone in the bathroom. They already LOVE this game as they have no previous negative associations, and they're used to just sleeping on the bathroom floor for 20 minutes or so while I shower. When I put them in there for this training I run a fan and my laptop plays an ocean waves white noise video to drown out most of the noise of the house. My hope is that I can eventually use this "oasis" as a place to put them before clients arrive and have them wait there, blissfully unaware during check-ins. Then they can come out and be in the grooming room with me during the dog's groom. They're fine with that part, it's just the initial arrivals that upset them. We only need to get to about 10 minutes of alone time before I can start trying this method with some of my quicker drop-offs. : ) So far, as I just started this a few days ago, they lie on their bathroom blanket for about 3 minutes while I stay mostly in sight. I've also walked out of sight down the hallway and closed the bathroom door (with me on the other side) without any signs of stress from them. Now that it will be a daily practice, I'm sure we'll be seeing lots of progress! I'm excited that I can now work with them on separation without getting sweaty palms. : P


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

Oh... This game sounds like fun!!


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## Beaches (Jan 25, 2014)

I was going to ask if you leave a radio or tv on when you leave the house? This really helps us as all the outside noises aren't heard. You're really doing well with them.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Very well done. You've achieved amazing progress with your little ones. You should be so proud. Just goes to show what a little science behind the training can do. You rock girl!


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

*Hopetocurl*, they seem to think so! Whenever I walk down the hallway they rush before me to the grooming room door, and then if I don't open it for them they rush to the bathroom door. They want to play their games!

*Beaches*, yes, I keep a radio on when I'm gone to drown out the street noise, as I know that can startle them. They still bark and howl, though, just because I'm gone. But at least the radio prevents them from being upset about the outside world, too!

*Poodlebeguiled*, thanks! I'm always trying to figure out ways to train *myself* before the dogs, haha. It's really the exact same science! Set myself up for success, focus on baby-steps, and make sure it's always rewarding. My anxiety makes it pretty challenging to work with them in a lot of settings or on stressful issues (any thing that causes them distress, like separation anxiety or reactivity). I now enjoy our mini-session every day and that's building a positive association with their separation training. I've also found I feel really good when I get to check the session off of my daily to-do list. Haha, so that actually is motivating for me. Then I look at the whole row of tally marks and see just how long I've been keeping it up, and I know that whether or not I'm noticing the progress, it's there. If you work towards a goal every single day, you get closer! : D


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## Rachel76 (Feb 3, 2014)

Reading your works in progress gives me motivation. Thank you.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Well, something very awesome happened today! I took Lumi to the vet alone so that she could have my full attention while she got needled. Amala was crying as we left and I imagined she'd have a horrible couple of hours. However, when we got back I noticed an absence of screeching, her usual behavior when I return. I walked into the room with her crate to find her curled up watching me enter, with sleepy eyes. She was sleeping! And she didn't even freak out when I returned! She came out of her crate calmly, although I could hear a really high frequency whine coming from her. So she was a little stressed, but it was barely noticeable. What happened??!! I don't know if it was a fluke or if it could be related to all the work we're doing. I mean, it would seem obvious that it is, but we still don't work on intervals longer than a few minutes, and she was *already* upset when I left. Still, I guess those fond memories of being happy without me, even for only moments at a time, may be adding up and giving her the idea to just relax even when the situation seems dire. 

I am SO happy but a bit scared to credit it to our recent training. It seems too good to be true!! Either way, I'm just so glad she wasn't miserable the *whole* time I was gone, because Lumi and I did have fun together. (It's nice to have one on one time!) I think I may need to start filming in my absence again. I used to do it often to see just how bad they were and if maybe they had brief periods of calm or even naps between my departure and return (they didn't). It may be time to start again because I might be pleasantly surprised! : )


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Just a quick update, I'm on day 29 of a daily crate-training session! Tomorrow will be 30 whole days of sticking with this, no matter how busy or stressed I was! I'm kind of blown away, because I've had some hard days this month. Sometimes the dogs could tell I was so anxious that they wouldn't even eat (when I get like that we usually all just go to bed!). Still, since they *had to* have their ten treats in their crate, I'd find or cook something especially yummy and win them over. Then we'd go to bed! : P It's been an excellent ritual to help me learn to cope or push a little harder than I have been when I'm stressing out. I love the way my doggies help me even when they're not trying! 

I'm going to go for two sessions a day for this next month! I know I can do it. Also, I won't stick to the "10-treat" rule, because now I feel capable of using my own judgement to tell when we're done. I needed that literal number to strive for in the beginning, but now I can actually engage my brain in spite of feeling a bit anxious. : ) I've also been sticking with the daily bathroom session, which is now at day 16. This is probably more about my progress than my dogs', sorry! But I know I need to get my head on straight before I can help them. Also, I feel like I need to explain that I'm not always a basketcase during training! It's just that *sometimes* I am, and it's so stressful to me (and I can tell it's a bad experience for the dogs!), that I tend to just avoid training altogether, because I don't want to chance it. So I'm teaching myself and the dogs, that being in a weird mood doesn't mean that all operations must be shut down. : P And that a training session doesn't have to contribute to my/their anxiety on a bad day, it can be the one thing that's simple and good and (relatively) predictable!

Regarding their progress, they can now wait in the kitchen while I do stuff around the house without me really even thinking about it! I don't know how many minutes because I stopped trying to stretch it out, but it's now long enough to go about the house and do what I've got to do. It's totally old hat for them. That's not where I would leave them when I go out or when clients arrive, so it's just a nice bit of freedom for me and extra independence for them. : ) I still give them treats most times I return to the room because, why not? Haha But I don't click and they don't get up or get excited, they just lie there and don't really seem to care. Also, I often leave the barricade at the kitchen door down and they still choose to just lie in their bed when I leave the room. They're very comfortable now. : )


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

:adore: You are amazing! The differences you are making to your own life in order to make a difference to Lumi and Amala's lives is simply inspirational and a shining example of how sheer determination can win the day.

One person's molehill is another person's mountain, and you girl - you are scaling your personal Everest. 

Keep up the fantastic work - and keep us updated!! LOVE reading your posts.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

**Disclaimer** This post is ridiculously long! Just skip to the end if you want to see pictures of cute Poodles without reading my memoirs!

So, update! I officially fell off the training wagon, broke a wheel off, and used it as a planter in the front yard! :aetsch: I forgot about separation work for a long time and just let myself ignore the problem and justify it by the fact that the dogs are, in truth, rarely left alone. 

But, I've recently discovered that Amala has gotten worse and now will howl for me and refuse food even when she's with other people. People that she knows and is close with. Poor girl! 

I reevaluated all of the obstacles that were causing me to avoid the training, and addressed each one. I had already bought them "safe" crates, that would only be used for training and never when they'd be expected to go over threshold (like, when I actually have to leave them to run errands or check in clients). But, I wasn't training with them because they were by the front door, and how would that even help me during client check-ins (when they have to be in another room)? And also I would need to literally walk out the front door over and over again during training sessions, which is definitely something I'm averse to with my anxiety about leaving my house! So, I rearranged my bedroom to accommodate their crates. This way they can learn to be left alone in there, and it won't matter (to them) whether I go out the front door or not because they won't even know. Unless they hear me, which brings about the next solution...

Amala and Lumi have a TV! Haha, I had a spare one that wasn't in use and so I set it up in my bedroom with a VCR. Now I can run a fan and play a movie and they'll be none-the-wiser if I'm coming or going or checking in clients!

Finally, I had to try to find a way to manage my anxiety when I train. I get tense and second-guess myself when it comes to raising criteria or rewarding on a random ratio, and therefore tend to bounce between over-rewarding and not asking for more, ever, to spontaneously expecting way too much and frustrating or demotivating my dogs. So, I went full-nerd and found some apps on my phone to help me. Haha Try not to laugh at this! Or laugh, it doesn't matter to me because it's working!! :amen: 

I first downloaded a random number generator. I can set the minimum or maximum. So when I want Lumi to receive a treat every 1-3 seconds of remaining in her crate, I don't need to guess my own random intervals as I go (the problem being that I don't trust myself and might lean too heavily toward one end or the other, which makes me so tense I just don't enjoy the game). I let the app generate a list for me, and then it's just a matter of counting off the seconds in my head, no in-the-moment decisions required! My phone sits just above the crates, so it's very easy to work from. 

Still, I had trouble keeping accurate time (sometimes I'd count to three in just one or two seconds!), so I got a ticking clock app to keep me in time. I want to defend myself here and explain that this is anxiety-specific stuff! I actually have good rhythm when I sing and dance, when I'm not stressing! Haha I just need a little help when I'm worried about screwing up, which is how I often feel when I start training. So afraid of making mistakes!

I also got a random timer app that just goes off at random intervals (between the minimum and maximum you choose), but that will come into play when we're working with minutes, not so much seconds. It's easier to just count for now. 

The result has been that in under a week, Lumi has learned a 6 second crate settle (lying in her crate with her head down). One session involves being in the crate for 3-4 minutes, with rewards coming every 1-6 seconds, and I count from the moment her chin is on the ground (which ends up meaning a treat every 10 seconds or so, counting treat delivery and crunching time!). I give about 15 rewards per session, so when her rewards were every 1-2 seconds, she was only in the crate a minute or two. At first she would just tap the ground with her chin and then immediately look up for her treat, but now she rests her head between her paws and waits calmly for her marker. She even does some nice, relaxed sighs now and then. I don't know if going from less-than-1-second to 6 seconds in a week is slow or reasonable progress for others, but I'm taking it as a huge success for us! And having such irrefutable data as numbers on a screen - what she can do today but could *not* do last week - gives me so much confidence and makes me so proud of her! And if we can go from 1 to 6 seconds, we can go from 6 to 12, and 12 to 24, and 24 to 60, and you get the picture!!

Oh, and I'm using the same process for Amala, but she's still a bit stuck at the gate. She has a tendency to rest her head in the doorway of the crate (I'm pretty sure with the idea that I then can't close it!), so I'm still shaping a settle I like from her before I can build the duration. But since she is naturally a "settler" (Lumi's a "fidgeter"!), I'm not worried about her late start. She'll probably catch up to and then pass Lumi once she gets going! : P

I'm only working on duration right now, not distance or distraction. I was always trying to combine duration and distance/absence in past separation work, and I think that's what caused a lot of road blocks. I'm going to try to keep it very controlled this time. I combine things because I'm impatient, but as I learned a few days ago when I tried increasing Lumi's duration too rapidly, you lose more time going back and rebuilding a behavior than if you just go at an appropriate pace to begin with.

Because you read my novel, here are some recent pictures of Lumi and Amala!

The ever-fabulous Lumi!



The never-neat Amala!



Two tired dogs who still can't be separated from their Christmas presents from Gramma!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

So great to see you posting again!:whoo: And to hear about your clever and ever-so-disciplined training strategies! Bravo!!:adore: REALLY delighted to see the girls. Love Lumi's trim and oh, that precious little Amala, she is so stinking cute! Been wondering how you three gals were doing. I feel like that thought somehow traveled through the ether to you. Now _please_ find an app that will remind you to post updates at frequent random intervals!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Now that is really sensible - I shall borrow your ideas to work on getting Poppy to settle when I am not around!

It's good to hear from you again - and to see photos of the gorgeous duo.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

REALLY! I agree with Chagall........where in the heck have you and the fabulous Lumi and Amala been? I miss seeing and hearing about your adventures in the big scary world! You sound pretty happy with your progress and that is good! Anything that works for you is good!!! The girls look adorable ! BTW what did you find to work on the tears stains? They look great........Now don't disappear again!!!!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

It is great to hear from you! I was thinking about you earlier this month since I was in Syracuse for a trial the first weekend of the new year. You have done a great job breaking that training apart into simple segments. Keep at it and you will get there. The girls look wonderful too.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Thank you, everyone, for the warm welcome back! : D. Lumi continues to do great during her crate settle sessions and Amala has finally gotten pretty reliable at settling with all her appendages inside the crate. : P We'll keep working on this.

I'm trying out a new idea, too. The super-calm crate settle will be great to build up to hours of alone time, but I think I can get to just 15 minutes of alone time much faster if my criteria aren't as specific. A short period like that is more than I need to do client check-ins, so that could help us right away with a near-daily issue. So now they're learning to hang out in their pen! I got this pen to travel with and set up at parks or cookouts or other events (it has a screen top so birds and bugs can't get 'em!), so if they just learn to feel safe and content in there, that's all I want. No need for a chin-on-the-floor settle (although those will certainly earn some jackpots!), just don't freak out if I walk 20 feet away, or you can't see me for a few minutes. So, here they are - totally not freaking out - in their pen tonight!





*MollyMuiMa*, the girls are still getting Tidy Tears everyday, although they also do have some staining! It's not too bad and it's hard to see from the front because of their fuzzy muzzles. The best results I had was when they were on Tidy Tears and also were eating homemade food. But it's just so hard to give up the kibble when it's sooo perfect for training! : P


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

What a pretty, peaceful, poodles-in-pink-pen sight to see! Such good progress, thanks to your thoughtful training and patience.:thumb:


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Awesome pawsome, you rock it!


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Working with them in the pen is going great! It's just so fun and easy! I've left it permanently out and open, so they explore it through the day. They like to settle in there if I'm in the room, and sometimes Amala will even do so when I'm not in the room! It has two doors, so sometimes they'll race right through one side and out the other while they're playing. So cute!

They're getting treats every 8 or 9 seconds at this point. : ) And I haven't been timing the sessions, but I think they're usually in for about about 2-3 minutes before I release them, then I send them back in and do a second round. I'm going to start running a timer so that I can monitor myself. Don't want to run too long for them! 

I'm using my random timer app now, which is so neat! I have it running through my bluetooth and it just makes a little beep when I'm supposed to click and treat. I'm very well trained now! Haha I still count the seconds while I wait so I can tell when it's a long interval and give the girls a jackpot for it. : ) They get a combination of kibble and one or two different treats as rewards, and never know which they'll get or when they'll get a whole pile of things!

I'm still standing right by the pen when I train. Not sure what interval without treats I should build up to before I start adding distance, but I'll just keep doing what we're doing until I get a better idea. : )

I used to have to push through feelings of dread or remind myself to breathe when I would begin (or sometimes even *think* about) separation training. Now that's sooo much better, and nearly gone! It may seem weird that it had to do with apps on my phone, but I really think automating some of the aspects of training gave me a little breathing room in my brain (I don't even know what that means, it just sounds right, haha), and I no longer get so overwhelmed by the emotional/anxiety aspect. This is really cool! : )

A bit of a funny coincidence, too. I'm sure a lot of you remember the "There's an app for that." advertising campain. Well, Lumi and Amala's favorite treat is dehydrated apples. I always have a piece on me, always available so that I can reward the girls for whatever wonderful thing they do on their own. And I'll say "Good girl! There's an app for that!", as in, apple!! Go figure that our silly little app joke actually ties in to something that turns out to be really important for us! Haha, there really is an app for that!! My memoirs might be called "Apps and Apples: How I Beat Anxiety with Technology and Dehydrated Fruit" Hahaha


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

PammiPoodle said:


> ...A bit of a funny coincidence, too. I'm sure a lot of you remember the "There's an app for that." advertising campain. Well, Lumi and Amala's favorite treat is dehydrated apples. I always have a piece on me, always available so that I can reward the girls for whatever wonderful thing they do on their own. And I'll say "Good girl! There's an app for that!", as in, apple!! Go figure that our silly little app joke actually ties in to something that turns out to be really important for us! Haha, there really is an app for that!! My memoirs might be called "Apps and Apples: How I Beat Anxiety with Technology and Dehydrated Fruit" Hahaha


Your ingenuity continues to inspire! I have visions of a whole new Apple ad campaign featuring your girls, earning APPreciation from dog lovers everywhere!


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

Wow, they are doing really well! And so are you. Glad to hear from you!


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

I've adapted my plan one more time! Haha, I feel a little silly that I keep changing my goal, so feel free to weigh in whether this sounds like a good idea or not. 

I decided to go ahead and start training them in their grooming room crates. These are the crates they sleep in while I work (quite contentedly, since I'm in the room), and also the crates I use when I actually have to leave them for real, including client check-ins which I do outside the grooming room. I thought I should just let those crates keep being "scary" while I just train them to be alone in other settings, since there's no way I can eliminate their bad experiences with those crates through the duration of their training.

But then I thought I could create a "safety" signal to let them know this is training time and they don't need to be worried. I decided to make that my blow-dryer, since they won't be able to hear what's going on outside the grooming room. Now they can learn to at least go in there when I need them to (typically, Amala will whine and run when I open her crate for her), and as long as I keep the "safety" signal going, they'll be receptive to training. 

So far, it's working great! They rush to the crates before me hoping I'll let them in, which is sooo helpful when I really need them in there. Sometimes Amala seems to get wind that it's "for real" but that's only on ocassion. I first have them go in, then click and treat, then turn on the dryer so that it doesn't become part of the cue. Then we continue with an open door crate stay for about 2 minutes, with treats every 8 or 9 seconds. Same interval as several days ago, I know, but we're in a new setting so I made it easier at first and now we're back to 8 or 9 seconds again.

They seem to trust that when the dryer's on it's a whole new game, and they've never broken before being released, and sometimes are slow to come out because they're enjoying the "treat train"! Haha I started closing the doors briefly, and Amala refused her treats. That makes her nervous! I'd like to desensitized her to that quickly so that they can learn to go in and be locked in before expecting a reward. Just to help everything go smoothly when I am using the crates "for real". (Gosh, that sounds so manipulative!)

This has already improved check-ins a little. Up until last week, Amala would whine and avoid me before being bribed by something very special to go in, and then the moment my hand was on the door to close it, she would start panic barking (and her ever-supportive sister would join her), and keep that up until I was done checking in the groom dog and back in the room. Now she eagerly pushes her way in the crate as I'm opening the door for her, and only begins barking as I'm going out of the room, sometimes even waiting a few seconds past that. 

It feels kind of bad to know I'm "tricking" her, but in the end she's spared some stress by not starting up right away. Her sister begins when she does, and so is also waiting a few moments longer to get worried. 

Here is a video of the (believe it or not) improved situation! You can see Amala is pulling her door open at the very start! I didn't want her to go in too soon and be locked up longer than needed. Anyway, this can give you all an idea of what we're working to overcome. It may seem mild here, but given 20/30/60 minutes they get quite worked up.

And if I'm allowed to find something endearing in my dogs' misbehavior and distress, I love the moments when they both stop and listen. True Poodles, taking a break to thoughtfully reassess the situation before resuming barking! I'm looking forward to sharing a more triumphant video soon! : ) 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SeOkmqIae-4


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Just wanted to update that we've been keeping up our work! I've even "taken off the training wheels", so to speak, and usually just work with them without the apps on my phone! I still don't know if my "random" intervals are truly random, but we are making progress so it must be good enough! 

The girls are settling in their open crates in my bedroom until released for 2-3 minutes, with rewards coming every 6-16 seconds. They settle with the door closed for about a minute with rewards every 3-5 seconds. Amala is no longer refusing treats when her door is closed! : D 

This is all with me pretty much sitting in front of the crates. I'm just starting to add distance now with the crate door open, and will go as far as the doorway and closing the door with me still in the room with them. They wait in their crates with rewards every 2-5 seconds, which typically matches the number of steps I've taken to the door. Today was the first day I started adding that and they didn't even seem tempted to follow! For a week or so we've been practicing me closing the door on them (meaning, leaving them alone in the room) while they settle on the floor, with me returning to reward every 3-5 seconds. So, basically, now I'm beginning to combine that experience with actually being in the crate, and they're doing great. Soon I'll be combining my absence with being in the crate *and* the crate door being closed! I'm so excited!

As you can tell, I'm being very thorough about introducing each aspect of being alone separately before combining them. We even had several conditioning sessions of me closing the bedroom door while on the same side as them, since Amala would tuck her tail and appear nervous anytime I closed it. That door needs to be slammed to latch (old house) and Amala decided it was scary. Now I can close the door to get her to come running hoping for a treat! : )

We still also practice with the pink pen and the grooming crates, but I've gravitated back to the bedroom crates again for some reason. I try to practice little settling or separation games in all different places, though, even at friends' houses! Just closing a door between us for a second, or asking them to wait on their bed while I take several steps away and then return. Trying to find little moments to make separation a regular, unremarkable occurence. So far, so good! : )


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

Great progress!! You're doing cracking work, all three of you


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

PammiPoodle said:


> ... now I'm beginning to combine that experience with actually being in the crate, and they're doing great. Soon I'll be combining my absence with being in the crate *and* the crate door being closed! I'm so excited!...So far, so good! : )


They are indeed doing GREAT! And that's because you are a dog training :angel2:, so very thoughtful, patient and resourceful! :thumb: The video of Amala and Lumi "sister barking" made me smile. (It's like they truly "confer" with one another!) It also woke Chagall up from his nap with great expectations of having poodle playmates in the house.  So happy to hear of (and see!) the girls' great progress. Keep at you gals!!
:dog::dog:


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

We've got the treat interval up to seven seconds now with the crates closed and latched! For several days I had to open the door to feed the treat and that would seem to reset Amala's tension from having the door closed, so I wasn't latching them. But now I can feed her through the bars for the entire crate-stay (one to two minutes), so I just latch them up. I've even started to add standing and turning away while they're in the *closed* crates! Things are coming together! What am I going to do with all my "free time" once they learn to be alone?! Hahaha I think I'm still weeks or months away from having any real, useful amount of time away from them. : P

It seems like our progress is sooo slooow and I wonder if it's what they need or if I'm just being overly cautious. But, if the end results are the same, what do I really care if I spend 2 months on this training or 5? The slower we go, the more often they get reinforced at a given interval, so the stronger the positive association. 

I'm feeling so excited and hopeful! I think things have truly changed and this is the beginning of the end of their separation anxiety. Happy Valentine's Day, everyone!


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Today Lumi started playing with the toy in her crate during training! I have a plushie and a chewie in each crate for them, and figured they wouldn't really come into play (haha, no pun intended!) until they're alone for several minutes at a time and finally get tired of staring at the door I left through. Well, I guess Lumi's already getting bored of staring at me during training! I was standing right next to the crate, but between the 3-7 second interval between treats, she just kept turning around and grabbing her bear, and giving it a little shake. 

I love that! She must be quite content now for her to take her focus off of me and want to play by herself! Both girls like to kill their toys on their own when they're loose in the house with me, but not so much whenever penned or confined. Does that mean that being in a closed crate feels as comfortable to Lumi as being loose around the house?! Wow! That's just the sort of association I'm going for and why I'm taking this so slow. 

I feel very happy with our "slow" progress right now, and this is on the heels of feeling very discouraged by it just this morning. That little bear attack was just what I needed to see. We're definitely moving in the right direction! :cheers2:


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Another great training day! We're now working on fewer individual criteria, meaning separately, and lumping more things together. I don't even do any open-crate work with them anymore, except for a few rewards for remaining in the crate after the doors are open, until I cue them to come out. I want the hehe theheohemo always wait for theheohemo hehe signal, not just an open door. (Okay, that autocorrect had me laughing out loud so I had to leave it in for y'all! I meant "I want them to always wait for the signal, not just an open door." I don't know what language my phone just reverted to..) So far, they're never in a hurry to come out! Amala will usually just barely come out, like a clown fish, and keep her back end in the way so I can't lock her out. This is the same dog who used to lie in the crate with her head hanging out so I couldn't lock her in!! I would say we've come a long way, but apparently she's still the one calling the shots, so I don't know! :aetsch:

My discouraging experience yesterday morning was that Lumi was fussing and moaning when I tried to raise the criteria (in this case, the interval between treats) too fast. It made me sort of panic and feel like everything was falling apart, as I'm prone to irrationally do when either of my dogs are in distress. I vented to a loved one about it and there was some misunderstanding. I have very high standards for myself as their "mom", and for the quality of life they deserve. My goal is to teach my girls to love crate time and alone time. To happily enjoy the opportunity to take a nap or play with their toys and not have to share with/fend off a bossy sibling (not naming names..but, Amala, I'm looking in your direction...). Not everyone thinks this is practical, or even achievable. But I have faith. : ) If anyone wants to share about their confident pup who can relax and even enjoy having the house to themselves, it'd be great to read! 

Thank you for sharing in our journey! I always know I'll get nothing but support and encouragement on this forum. As I've said in the walking thread, your kind words not only have an impact on me, but Lumi and Amala have a better life because of the motivation I get from you all. :grouphug:


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think that you are doing amazingly - and your extremely high standards give you the impetus and the patience to train things really well. You and the girls have made so much progress with this over the last week or two - I am sure one tiny step backwards is not going to undermine it, and I am equally sure that your slow and steady approach will get you to your goal of them settling happily. As you say, most people would be satisfied with them staying in their crates without shouting - being prepared to invest the time and effort to ensure Lumi and Amala really enjoy their peaceful rest time alone shows how much you love them!


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Thank you so much, *Fjm*! : ) 

Today we extended the treat interval for being in their closed crates, and I'm adding distance when they're in their closed crates and also open. The sessions are getting much simpler now! 

In the past month I've worked with them on **deep breath** having me sit by the crate with the door open, then sitting with the door closed, then standing with the door open, then standing with it closed, then walking away open, walking away closed, and then opening and closing the bedroom door with them (not crated) on the same side as me, then opening and closing the bedroom door with them (not crated) on the opposite side as me. **phew!** Now, it's finally getting so streamlined! Sessions usually consist of practicing duration in a closed crate with me sitting by them, and then walking away with the crate doors open, and then walking away with the crate doors closed. Soon I'll drop the open-door walk away, and eventually the close-proximity duration. I'll just crate them up and walk out of the room and gradually extend that duration!

It's been hard to not just skip to the "pay dirt" - actual separation work - but I'm hoping that all this conditioning has given them a really firm foundation, and a totally mellow baseline from which to adapt to being alone.

The only problem now is that I don't want to go more than a few seconds out of sight without a camera on them, so that I can replay our sessions to see that they're truly at ease without me. I knew this day was coming, but I guess I hadn't expected it so soon because, here I am, camera-less. Now the dogs are ready for me to leave them, and I'm not! Hahaha How the tables have turned!


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Today and yesterday we've done several sessions where I just crate them and immediately begin walking away, no staying by the crate. Basically, what I've been prepping them for all month. So far, so good! : ) I even walk through the door and almost close it behind me, but not quite latching it yet. This morning Amala declined the first treat I gave her in one session and seemed a little wary, and I thought "Oh, no, I moved too fast and everything's falling apart!" But I just did a few reps with the crate door open and then closed it and proceeded as planned, and she seemed to be convinced that everything was okay. It was only later in the day that I realized I was still wearing my coat from shoveling, so she probably was worried I was about to leave *for realz*. Haha 

Just a quick update! Everything's going great!


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

My goodness, you are so incredibly patient and your attention to detail in trying to figure out what makes your dogs tick is amazing. Have you considered looking into training as an animal behaviorist? You seem to have a natural inclination for it!


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

*Carolinek*, thank you for that! I actually worry that all the details I'm sharing might make make me seem neurotic (which is partly the case!), so I'm glad it comes off as knowledgeable to you! : P Yes, I would love to be a dog trainer and actually have been certified as one for years, but I have to overcome some personal anxiety before I can work with pet-owners that way. I'm a bit self-conscious about working directly with people and teaching them what to do. Also, I won't feel confident charging people for my services so long as my own dogs still have unresolved issues! My dream is that one day Lumi and Amala can be my co-workers or demo dogs, giving myself and my clients confidence in my abilities. : )


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Your work has inspired me to try and "up" my level of patience with Buck. He's a bratty teenager now, and some days I get discouraged. He knows which of my buttons to push and I'm still figuring out his! I love the careful and kind way you've worked with the girls so everyone can relax when they're home alone.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Hello again, all! Update time! I split it into two parts because I had too much to say! : P This part is about my decision to work with a trainer and how the initial meeting went. The next post is back on track talking about their separation training.

Something went wrong with our previous routine, and Amala had a few more instances of not wanting to go in the crate, or not even come into the bedroom with the crates! I couldn't figure out what was putting her off, so I ended up scrapping the whole thing. Which is what I have a history of doing with this separation work. It's so hard for me to see them anxious or upset, and when working with something that's potentially upsetting for them, it's inevitable that it will happen sometimes! I also stopped posting because I felt so embarrassed that, once more, I talked about how hopeful I was and how great we were doing, yet it went nowhere.

I stayed in my avoidance-bubble for another month or so, then decided to reach out to a local trainer who I'd been interested in talking to for a long time. She's force-free, a CGC evaluator, and runs a local therapy animal group, along with the usual dog training classes and private sessions. I figured, if a professional writes me out a training protocol, I'll follow it without changing my mind or method every few weeks, or after one snafu. And even if I do feel compelled to change or question something, I'll have a pro to consult with and won't be so impulsive or emotional in my decisions.

We met with her two weeks ago, and she was great! Of course, the doggies loved her! She was very positive and understanding and definitely very knowledgeable. And she told me something I wasn't expecting; she thinks Amala has issues with emotional instability that are severe enough for medication. I've definitely seen that Amala is easily over-aroused, with resource-guarding, bullying behavior toward her sister, and poor bounce-back after being spooked. But it's been relatively easy to (mostly) prevent her from engaging in these things with management. I didn't ever think she might need meds! 

It's an interesting thought and I'm definitely open to it if it will help her feel better all-around. But, I decided to continue on for a while without meds to be able to tell how effective the training is without wondering whether it's the training or the meds! Also, perhaps when I can more easily manage her once separation anxiety isn't an issue, I'll have better control over her training and any exposure to situations that are difficult for her. I haven't decided either way, but it was really enlightening to hear from a pro just how out of the "normal" spectrum she is. I knew my little baby was "special", but not that special! Haha

More about the actual training protocol and how it's going in the next post!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

It's good to hear from you! Wow! Meds? That's a pretty drastic recommendation! I'm hoping the trainer is having you try some things before you go that route, but sometimes they ARE needed just to take the 'edge' off to get a dogs calm attention! Good luck on your new regime ...will be waiting for the update!


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

The method the trainer wants to use is leaving the dogs alone with a long-lasting treat or treat-dispensing toy, as opposed to delivering treats to them at intervals. She wanted something that was constantly reinforcing, not intermittent. Makes sense to me! We've done this before, too, and I can't even remember why it didn't work. But I'm sure it had to do with me feeling like it wasn't working "perfectly", or the dogs having an off-day, and me giving up on it.

Today is one full week since we started doing a couple minutes a day with a Kong in their pens - all alone! For the past 4 or 5 days it's been 5 minutes! : )

The trainer, Danielle, has helped me every step of the way. The first day, I did 5 or 6 sessions, and the dogs were eager and happy to get in their pens each time. But the next day, they had one rep where neither ate a bite and Lumi barked. Then Amala didn't want to come into the same room as the pens! On my own, I would've thought "So much for that plan.." and went back to the drawing board. Danielle, however, told me to skip a day, and continue on only doing one or two max sessions a day. She said sometimes with two much repetition in and out of the pen, coming and going, it isn't as clear to the dogs just what's happening (in this case, good food is available when Mom goes away, good food goes away when Mom comes back). So, I did what she said, and the dogs did great after the day off. : ) And I would've just quit! : P

I have been filming the sessions to see how they do, and some days Amala gives up on her food after 2 or 3 minutes, and then just watches the door. I would've thought "She's declining food, therefore over-threshold, 5 minutes is too long.." and shortened our sessions. Danielle, however, said it's great that Amala is starting out eating the food, and that she's not getting panicy when she decides to wait for me. She's stressed, but handling it well, and we should keep doing 5 minutes. Okay, I'll listen! The next day she did the same, and the following day she didn't miss me for a moment! I thought we had gotten over a hurdle, never to be seen again. Silly me. Haha

The following day she didn't touch her Kong, or her treat-dispensing ball, and she literally jumped and clawed at the walls of the pen while whining. After that I thought "This must be wrong, she needs shorter sessions or something!" I wrote Danielle an email, our usual way of talking, but she hasn't replied yet. I didn't even do a session the next day (which was yesterday), partly out of avoidance but also thinking a day off might refresh them and make the pens more exciting and fun the following day. 

Today is the following day. I didn't want to take two days off. I didn't want Danielle to get back to me after a few days and find out we did *nothing* simply because I didn't hear from her. I'm deferring to her, but I don't want her to think I'm totally helpless! So, I thought I can't go wrong with just 2 minutes, right? But I tried to think like Danielle. I imagined that she probably would tell me to try for 5 again. She seems much less afraid of "ruining" something or destroying all progress, which is a fear that dictates a lot of my decisions. So, I went with 5 minutes today. And when I returned to the room, neither of them even cared! The were still picking at their treats and toys and didn't particularly want to come out. When I watched the video back, that's what they were doing the whole time. Neither even glanced at the door for me!

There seems to be a fine line between letting them "cry it out", and letting them feel bad or worried and process it on their own. I'm okay with the latter, but it's still hard to know just where to draw the line. Also, in theory, I don't see why they should have to feel bad at all, at any point of a training process. But I guess it's less that the unpleasant experiences are required for the learning, and more that they're relatively unavoidable. If the process is perfectly done and never causes the least bit of stress to the dog, that's fine, but is it reasonably achievable by the owner? And if it isn't possible to do things so perfectly, is it better to do it the best you can, or not do it all?

I'm really not sure how I feel. I hope I don't sound like a hipocrate now that I'm working with a trainer and I may seem suddenly not as committed to my dogs' happiness. I'm just trying to approach things a little differently since my way hasn't gotten us very far in 3 years! I'm fortunate to have found a trainer who seems very trustworthy and capable. I wouldn't be as agreeable if she didn't seem like the perfect fit.

I hope these posts don't seem pointless! I almost didn't share this and thought "Bah, I'll just update some day when Lumi and Amala can be alone for two hours, that's real news!" But I guess I feel like the ups and downs and different techniques and changes along the way are part of the process, and it might be helpful for anyone working with their dog to see all the boring details and low moments that another pet-owner went through, and still resolved the issue. I still have faith that we'll get there! And because it's so hard for me, I really hope that somehow journaling our progress could help someone else who's struggling themselves. : )

*MollyMuiMa*, thank you! Yes, as you can see, the trainer is very focused on their training as well! Funny, my vet mentioned the same thing when I talked to her about it, "Oh, did she suggest any training techniques, as well..?" I thought it was a silly question, but now that you're having the same thought, maybe it's more common than I realized for some trainers to just recommend a pill as a magic solution. What a shame! The trainer didn't push it at all, I think she just wanted me to know that Amala is a little extreme and it would be reasonable to include meds in her toolbox. She specifically recommended Prozac, and advised against anything else, most other drugs either having lasting effects on the brain or being sedatives. The Prozac would help to stabilize her mood so she won't become overwhelmed or fixated whenever she experiences something unpleasant. : )


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I find your updates fascinating - and I think it is an excellent idea to work with a really good trainer. I am particularly interested in her saying that too much coming and going and intermittant rewarding is confusing for the dogs, as I think that is where I have gone wrong with mine. Working with Poppy on her CGC got much easier once we mutually decided that the reward came when we got back to our chair after the exercise, and thinking about it, if Sophy can stare at me for a full 5 minutes to persuade me to do as she asks, it proves she can concentrate for at least that long! Sometimes we are just too close to a situation to see the wood for the trees, and it needs someone else to help us to see the way through.

Please do keep updating when you can - your patience combined with a willingness to try new ways is inspirational!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Pammi I am so happy to hear from you! As fjm said I do find your deep thoughts about understanding Lumi and Amala and their well being to be very interesting to follow. I hope you can work through this with no meds. Your trainer sounds great. I am glad you reached out to her.

For those who are following this discussion and have young pups I will say that one of the things our vet said when we brought Lily for her very first visit was to never make a big deal out of saying goodbye. He said just put her in her crate, make sure all is secure and walk away and out the door. That is what we did and I still never make any deal out of leaving. If the dogs aren't in sight when I leave I say nothing. If they are near me I just quietly say something like be good or see you soon. I don't pet them and I don't look back as I am going out the door. It is really important not to make your leaving important or concerning.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

PammiPoodle said:


> ...And if it isn't possible to do things so perfectly, is it better to do it the best you can, or not do it all?
> 
> I'm really not sure how I feel. I hope I don't sound like a hipocrate now that I'm working with a trainer and I may seem suddenly not as committed to my dogs' happiness. I'm just trying to approach things a little differently since my way hasn't gotten us very far in 3 years! I'm fortunate to have found a trainer who seems very trustworthy and capable. I wouldn't be as agreeable if she didn't seem like the perfect fit.
> 
> I hope these posts don't seem pointless! ...


Your commitment to your poodles' happiness and well being continues to shine bright as ever! It makes perfect sense to modify your approach, using the guidance of a qualified and resourceful trainer and your own considerable wisdom, just as you are. :nod: Lumi and Amala are showing progress, embrace that! Setbacks are to be expected and overcome, just as you are doing. You present _so many_ good points and thoughts in your posts, please don't ever doubt or underestimate their worth and the tremendous benefit they are to so many others. You are my role model for patience and kindness. :thumb:


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Well, the short stints in the pen with a Kong stopped working for Amala. She kept alternating between good days and bad days, and little by little her bad days got more intense and more frequent. Lumi was doing well, but considering I have to change techniques for Amala, I'd rather just move them both along with the same method. Unless the new method isn't a good fit for Lumi, of course. But she seems to be the easier one.

We couldn't quite nail down what was causing Amala to fail on some days and not others. That supports the idea that she's just got a problem regulating her emotions. I want to try some more methods before medicating, though. Even if the meds work, then we still haven't resolved the origins of the anxiety, and I'd like to know what would/could work with her in the hopes that she can be weaned off the meds someday. Of course, if we find what works, then she won't *need* meds, so it's all a little conflicting. The trainer is putting together a new game plan to try. : )

Of course, I'm still trying my own things (and consulting with the trainer so I don't somehow negate what she's suggesting). We've had and *big* break-through this week. Lumi and Amala can be crated for long intervals in rhe kitchen with me! They previously only tolerated being crated while I work in the same room. No other room/setting or activity would work. Only crated in the grooming room, while I worked with a groom dog. Probably because I'm so in the zone they know they might as well just sleep!

We use the crates that I spent ages conditioning them to (from the posts rarer this year). Then, the plan was to teach them to go in and be left, which ultimately didn't work. But, since they usually relax in the kitchen with me, I thought maybe they could learn to be crated there for long periods, and truly settle, before I even add absences. So far, so GREAT!! I put away all the other beds and blankets that are usually available in that room, and all they have are the crates, which are kept closed unless I "let" them in. After a walk, they make their way to the crates and look to me to open the door. In the evening, they paw at them for the opportunity to curl up. They have beds in other rooms, but since they'd rather settle in my "headquarters", they kitchen. : P

Now that being crated several times a day just normal business, I know they'll feel 1000 times more comforted by it in my absence! (They can't yet have free reign alone, as they scuffle over prized resources, the very type I would only give them in my absence.) It also creates such a clear distinction between "social time" and "personal time" - for all parties! Haha I feel very refreshed and focused when I invite them out after an hour of not being leaned on, nose-nudged, or required to call off a cat chase. : P Now, I do love the first two, but still, it's nice to miss them a little, and surely will help them to feel more confident on their own if they have to refrain from touching me for an hour or so, even if I'm still in sight.

Something I'm very excited about its introducing absences in the middle of a good long settle! Now there won't be any action required of them in the moments before I leave, to get them all excited, they can just sit tight where they are as I come and go. : )

Now I can crate them for up to a few hours while I'm cooking, cleaning, surfing the web, etc. They are very calm and actually dig/nest and curl up for sleep in there. 

Part 2 coming right up!


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

I've also started testing the limits of leaving them totally loose and walking out the front door. They've gotten used to me going out for under a minute to get the mail, take out the garbage, get something from the car, etc. This was just something they accepted from exposure and learning that anytime I only close the screen door, I will be *right* back. Well, I've learned that I can stay out for about 5 minutes with little to no whimpering. Amala is actually the champ with this method! She lies right down on a blanket by the door, and doesn't move or make a peep. Lumi stands or sits, fidgets a little, sometimes goes into another room to check for me, and ocassionally whines. 

Not perfect, but this is definitely passable as management so that I can get my yardwork done! I go out 2 to 5 times a day and mow a few lines or trim some of the hedges. Amala doesn't tolerate well being tethered away from me in the yard, which is necessary for mowing, and they're both a bit reactive with passersby which is very distracting and stressful to me when I'm trying to focus on another task. They are more comfortable with being left inside than coming out with me when I'm not available to work with them. This means they're getting really great at staying calm when they do come outside! It's always training time! : )

Lastly, I finally got a camera to watch them when I'm gone! This is how I can tell they're doing okay for those short yardwork outings. I can see/hear them from my smartphone hooked to my belt! I debated buying one forever, and finally made the decision when the trainer supported it. I feel like it's a must-have for separation anxiety! How can you know what your training or how you're progressing if you can only go by audible barks from outside the room, or the behavior you see in the moments you leave or arrive? I mean, I know it's possible to do, but removing the mystery of "How are they doing? Should I come back now? Or maybe little longer?" makes this camera worth its weight in gold! I got something on the low-end, about $60, and it was a piece of cake to set up and use. Love it! I even check it when I'm out with the dogs tod see what the cats are up to. Always just sleeping, though. : P

I'm just going to stop here because I wrote a novel. So much to report! Thank you all for your support and encouragement! : ) I'll try to update more often. There's stuff I still want to mention now but it'll just have to wait! Haha The dogs are nearing three hours in their crates and I want to roust them while they're still sleepy.  Always leave 'em wanting more! ; )


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

That is excellent news that they settle so happily in the kitchen - I think it is easier to establish behaviour patterns through almost unconscious "this is the way we do things here" than conscious training (witness how easily unwanted habits get established!). I never set out to crate train my dogs, but have a crate in the car for safety reasons. The crate has become completely associated with going on walks, or snoozing comfortably on longer journeys, so that they are happy in it even when it is not in the car, and it seems I have sort-of-crate-trained dogs after all!

Interesting about the good days/ bad days. Have you been able to see any pattern in them - amount of exercise, or stimulation, or food, or your own activities? I have come to realise over the years that Poppy is both easily overwhelmed by too much excitement, and needs quiet space and time, and that she is very sensitive to temperature, especially when it is cold. I left the dogs with my younger sister at her house for a whole day, worrying rather that Poppy would mither, but my sister gave her a safe electric warm blanket to snuggle on, and Pop spent most of the day in silent cosy bliss!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Thanks for the update. I am sorry you have had some set backs, but I know you will succeed with your tremendous patience and perseverance.


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

I always enjoy reading your updates! I was surprised to read that you have human children... Because you seem so focused on the dogs. (But, I am too...and I have human children, too)


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

*Fjm*, no, we couldn't identify a common factor for her off days, although we could possibly have been missing something. But, unless that's the case, it seems that her moods/emotions are just a bit unstable. She has good days and bad days. However, as far as I can tell, the things she's okay with are never a problem on bad days, it's just her ability to cope with things that she's already not okay with that's altered. That's why I'm still hopeful we can solve this without meds. Once she's confident on her own, it won't matter that she's having a sensitive day. Well, that's my hope!

*Lily cd re*, thanks for the confidence in us! 

*Hopetocurl*, I don't have human children! I do take care of my nieces 2-3 days every week, so maybe I said something about taking care of them all together and it seemed like they were mine? Let me know if you remember what I said and I can clarify. : ) And I don't know how I could handle being a mom to humans and dogs at once (although I'd like to), since whenever I'm with my nieces I feel like I'm neglecting my dogs! They're 4 and 7, and really well behaved. Still need lots of my attention, though! I think I may give them too much, honestly, as the 4 year old has trouble giving me even one minute to myself, say, just to go to the bathroom! Goodness, I leave a trail of separation anxiety everywhere I go! : P


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I am an aunt too! I just had a lovely few days making a costume for a party with my niece - she is nearly 40, though, so at least I get to go to the loo on my own!

Poppy definitely gets overwhelmed more easily than Sophy - she will take herself off to a quiet spot away from people when it all gets too much, although usually she is never more than a few metres from me. I have wondered if dogs get headaches, as she certainly behaves that way.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

So, the dogs are still getting crated for a few hours every day, with me present. They're completely comfortable with the routine. I alternate periods of treating every seven minutes with periods of not treating at all. They really don't need treats at this point to be relaxed in there, but I always open the crate doors before treating them, so I mostly do I to teach them to be calm even if the crate is approached or opened. The other day I forgot to close the door, and seven minutes later when I went to treat them again, it was already open. : P They hadn't moved, so they definitely like it in there! 

The crates have been personalized just for them, and are now referred to as their S.C.U.B.A. crates! (Super Customized Ultraluxe with Bonus Amenities) 



They were shivering a bit, and clearly trying to stay in the tightest ball they could when in there. So, the crates are on supports to be off the cold floor and wrapped in a huge comforter to stop drafts. Then I installed a blanket on the inside of each crate, draped from the ceiling to be easily snuggled under. It's really low at the back and high in the front, so they can scoot back for warmth or hang near the front for more airflow. Amala figured out that climbing on top of hers puts her in the "loft" where it's the coziest! Interestingly, she can't see me in there, so she has just separation trained herself as she'll hide away in there for an hour or so! : P I finally figured out a reliable way to dispense form the Treat & Train directly into the crates (meaning that no treats bounce out, or land in their top knots and get stuck, etc.), and also doesn't require them to get up to eat it, pretty much wherever they chose to lie down.

I now leave the room at times when they're completely settled, and stay out for a few minutes with treats being dispensed every 15-30 seconds. They don't get up, though they do pick their heads up and look for me sometimes (I LOVE my surveillance camera!). I think in no time that treat interval will lengthen, as they're just lying calmly between treats!

The trainer and I have stopped talking for now. She had a new method in mind for Amala, but I felt like I was on to something promising with this method, and also felt a bit like I was asking took much of her with the near-daily correspondence when I'd only paid for one consultation at the start. She said I didn't need hands-hands-on couching or to pay for follow-up sessions, but I still felt a little greedy. I didn't actually tell her I wanted to stop, but in one email she thought I was and responded very kindly and wishing us luck, and I just kind of let it be. It's actually a little awkward and I definitely intend to update her and clarify what I meant. : P I would definitely schedule another session with her if things are not on track in a couple of weeks/months. And then I know we'll both be justified in scheduling another payed appointment so I won't feel like I'm asking too much! : )


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

I feel like that last paragraph about the trainer might be written badly, and makes it sound like I just decided I didn't need help anymore, when I was/am still very much open to her advice! I didn't decline further help from her, and in one email she asked if I'd be interested in x method that she's seen success with, and I replied with "Yes, please, tell me more!" I also shared the success we'd been having with the kitchen crates and adding brief absences there. She must've completely missed my request for more information (it was litterally one sentence, as it's own parahragh), as her response was basically "I'm glad you've found something that's working for you!" I felt too sheepish to point out that I still wanted her help, as I already felt like the amount of time she'd spent advising me over the past weeks was a lot for having only paid to see her once. And, since things did look promising I thought I'd just let the mistake slide and contact her again if needed, and if a few more weeks/months had passed, then we'd both feel justified in scheduling a new paid consultation to sort of "restart". And then I wouldn't be worried I'm asking too much...for a while! : P

Today was the first time I left them in the kitchen crates while my nieces were with us! Me and my nieces left them alone in the kitchen and they loved watching the pups in the surveillance cam from another room in the house. And, of course, at treat time they got to press the buttons and see the machines spit treats into the crates! Fun stuff for a kid, but I admit I find ot about as exciting as they do! Hahaha : P


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Well, today we passed the 10 minute mark! I left the girls alone for 13 minutes, with the Treat & Train dispensing once a minute. They were totally chill! The most they did was lift their heads up from time to time and glance around, obviously wondering where I was. But, they would just put their heads back down after a few seconds. It feels like it's only going to get easier and easier from here! My goal now is to have them okay with at least a half an hour by September, as that's when my niece starts daycare and I'll be the one driving her there. This looks promising! : D


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Omd, I just left them alone for 15 minutes with treats coming every 2 minutes! Wow! And they were even closing their eyes between treats! Something amazing is happening now where they seem to become *more* relaxed the longer I'm gone. Like they stop expecting me and start just settle in for some quiet time. I'm sure it's a bell curve, so I'm being careful not to push my luck!

The camera can take still shots, so here's one with their sleepy eyes almost closed:



And here they are snacking on some dispensed treats:



I couldn't be happier! This is so amazing! At this point, I crate them and wait about ten minutes before leaving the room. I'm eager to shorten that transition period so they can just be crated and left. But for now, I can work with these conditions! : D


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Okay, I'm sorry about the million updates lately, just too excited not to share! I thought I'd just test and see what would happen if I crated them and immediately walked out. I did it after a short romp outside when I expected they'd be ready to settle. I let them in, latched the crates, and walked right out without so much as looking at them. Once I got in the other room and checked the camera, I saw that Lumi was still standing/sitting. I thought "Shoot! I should've stayed at least until she settled down, I don't think she'll do it now that I'm already gone." At one minute in, she was still sitting up and seemingly watching for me. I dispensed a treat. She stayed up for almost another minute and then, wonder of wonders, stretched and lied down! After being all alone for two minutes! I dispensed a treat right away, and then went to the two-minute schedule. They both stayed down, mostly with their heads down, for the next ten minutes until I returned. Phenomenal!

I'm also still leaving them alone and loose for 5-10 minute stints while I do yardwork or other outdoor things. They aren't nearly as comfortable, probably because there's no magic treat machine, but they don't get upset like when I leave them in the crates I use when I really have to leave for a "long time". They just watch the front door with baited breath. I grabbed this picture from the camera. It lends some validity to their separation anxiety - from this perspective, going through that door must look like I've crossed over! : P


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Brilliant! I have been working on a major DIY project in my garage, doing stuff that is Not Safe For Dogs, so they have had a lot more time home alone than usual. Our cue is Stay and Be Good, but after a week or so of seeing me putting on my paint splattered scuffs, being given a treat and then told to Stay and be Good, both dogs got into the habit of simply heading for my bed the moment I got changed! So now I know where they spend their time when I am out...


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Today I went through the front door and started my car while they were crated!!! Two very mellow dogs didn't seem to care at all! I gave extra treats, more than just the two minute interval. I gave a treat when I opened the front door and again when I closed it behind me. When I slammed the car door getting in and getting out, and another treat when I let myself back in the house. They stayed lying down the whole time, about 10 minutes, although Amala didn't put her head down. She was also holding her head up during a 15-minute absence I did earlier in the morning. I think she's just less inclined to settle and nap because we're not really taking walks lately. (In case you didn't read in the other thread, the girls burned their pads on a hot surface and are not to take walks for two weeks while they heal up. Watch out for hot cement/sand/blacktop/etc. out there!)

Being able to leave and start my car basically means I'M FREE!! I can go *anywhere* and do *anything* my heart desires - as long as I'm back in my kitchen in 15 minutes. Hahahahaha! Oh, well, I'll take what I can get! It's basically all about increasing the duration now. 

This is so amazing to me. I've been making arrangements for their anxiety for almost 4 years now (yes, Lumi is FOUR now!), so leaving the house without bringing the dogs or hiring a petsitter (or the guilt of not doing either of those things) feels like a super power! Haha This is so cool! I've heard of this thing called "a life" and I think I'm going to get one! :aetsch:

*Fjm*, I love that your pups see alone time as nap time! That's what I've always wanted for Lumi and Amala. That way it doesn't matter if the stuffed Kong runs out or the chew toy rolls under the couch while you're gone. When there's nothing fun to do they can just take a nice little nap while they wait! Most dogs need several hours more sleep than their people, so it seems so perfect to me for them to catch some Zs while we run our human errands. : ) Hopefully my girls take a lesson from Sophy and Poppy!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

We do have the huge advantages of a climate where it is very rarely too hot, too cold or too wet for walking, and of living in an area with lots of lovely off leash walks, so it is easy for me to give them enough exercise and that definitely helps them settle. Although you have reminded me that we are due a heat wave later this week (well, a heatwave in NW UK terms - around 30 centigrade/85 fahrenheit), and I must plan to walk them very early. They seem to spend very large chunks of the day snoozing, then bouncing awake the moment something fun offers.

I suspect that now the girls feel secure with your leaving, and are not frantic when you return, it will get easier and easier for them. The camera was such a good idea - so reassuring to know exactly how they are reacting.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

I have not been following this thread and it is quite amazing what you have accomplished. I like that you have admitted how free you feel being able to leave the dogs safely for a few minutes. The SCUBA device is a crack up, but quite effective. I can imagine that your niece really does enjoy watching the dogs on the camera. I know I would. A huge kudos to you for all you have done and sticking to it. Many people would have given up. Hope you enjoy continued success and more freedom. Your dogs are lucky that they belong to you!


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Today I left them alone for 30 minutes!!! They got treats every 2-3 minutes, and stayed lying down the whole time, mostly with their heads down, too. They both got up at one point just to lie right back down, and I think that was a good thing. They occasionally get up to reposition when I'm in the room and I think it's just finding a new comfortable spot as they switch from "watching Mom" mode to "we're gonna be here for a while" mode. So that means they weren't totally watching/listening for my return, but were just acting naturally and relaxing. : ) 

*Fjm*, we've been having lousy weather since the vet told us to take a break from walking. Makes it much easier to follow orders! Hopefully we can get enough rain and clouds in these two weeks for the rest of the summer to be great walking weather! : ) And yes, I think you're right that it's just going to get easier and easier. I've read in many different places that generally the first 20 minutes is the hardest window for dogs with separation anxiety. So far, so good! : )

*Charmed*, thank you! Yea, I'm not ashamed to say I want some time away from my dogs! Haha I've been in "puppy prison" for a very long time! : P They are very cute and fun guards, but everybody needs some freedom! Thank you for the kudos! : )


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I just caught up with your most recent updates. I am thrilled for you and your girls. It is good for everyone's "mental health" not to be so tied to one another that you can't be out of sight or out of earshot. Keep up the good work and keep us up to date.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Another day, another acheivement! One of the things I'd like to prepare Lumi and Amala for by September is to go straight from a car ride to crated alone time. I take care of my nieces at their home in the mornings, and get the older one ready for school, then drive her there. The pups can ride along because I just drop my neice off outside the school and she walks right in. However, next school year my younger niece is starting preschool (I accidentally called it daycare in an earlier post!), and I'm assuming she'll need/want to be walked into the building. So, I'm going to need to drop my pups off at my home on the way to preschool. I'm hoping they can handle that kind of transition from being in the car with their "cousins" to being alone in my empty kitchen! 

So, of course, we're going to practice it over the summer. And today I tried it with just me. After a brief outing to the pet store, when we got home I put them straight into their crates, latched them up, and left the room. They did great! Again, Lumi was still sitting up when I left, but she curled up after a minute or two. And actually curled up, with her face tucked in by her tail, as opposed to her "watching" settle position with her nose up to the bars of the crate. They don't seem to be overly concerned about where I am or when I'll be back anymore. : ) 

I've been making it a routine (when I don't work right up until bedtime) to crate the dogs for the last hour or two before bed. So far, they're game, and it seems to be a great way to cement crate time as unwinding time. That way, even when they come out, it's just to walk down the hall and go back to sleep (with me). I usually leave the room at some point when they're very mellow to practice alone time, and I'd ultimately like to move that as early as possible, until eventually they have a daily routine of going into their crates and being left immediately for, basically, their bedtime.

It's not that I need or want them to be "put away" for hours every day, but that I want to establish a strong new positive association to override the years of disliking crates and hating being alone. Now crates and alone time will mark the end of the day and time to let out a big sigh and relax for the evening. : )


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

What amazing progress you have made. Life is going to be so much easier for all of you now that they are happy to be left for a while.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Things are still going great! 

We did have a major hold up for almost a month after my last post. The girls burned their pads on a walk, and so were not allowed to go for walks for two weeks, and then we traveled out of town for a week. Not going for walks had a huge impact on Lumi's ability to settle, especially alone, and we ended up basically at square one! Lumi would whine after only a few minutes of being crated, even if I was still in the room! 

I just started at the beginning, with short sessions and a high rate of reinforcement, and we got back to where we were before in no time! Now we've made some additional progress past that. The girls were comfortable with 40+ minutes at a 3-minute treat interval. I'm stretching out the interval again to every 4 minutes, and now the sessions are mostly between 20-30 minutes. However, I can do them multiple times a day, and easily pop them in the crates and walk right out of the room. They've become very comfortable with that, so sessions can be frequent and spontaneous. Woo-hoo!

I have to watch the clock and use the remote to dispense the treats myself, since the Treat & Train doesn't have a setting for 3 or 4 minutes. Also, I like having the ability to dispense exactly when I want. So if it's treat time and suddenly Lumi pops her head up and looks for me, or noses her treat dispenser, I can wait for a better moment to press the button. 

Once they get to the 5 minute mark (the machine has a setting for that), I'm going to have to let my babies fly solo and trust that we've had enough practice that when those treats come out automatically, they'll be getting reinforced for good, calm behavior more often than not. I don't care if they get up and look for me, or randomly paw the dispenser or things like that, just so long as they don't get consistently reinforced for it and think that's their job! : P

I'll have to try them with longer intervals than 5 minutes, too, since the Treat & Train's 5-minute setting is variable. I don't know how much it varies, maybe they'll have 10 or 15 minute intervals sometimes. I do need to throw some of those in to prepare them beforehand. But, once we get there, I can just turn on the machines, and leave the property. Gone. Farther than the remote could ever reach! Bwahahahaa! 

Of course, I'll still be checking my nanny-cam neurotically to see that they're happy and that the machines haven't jammed or run out of battery or who knows what else. I pretty much plan to leave it running on my phone like a baby monitor so I could hear if anything was amiss. Oh, my gosh, I'm such a crazy dog lady! :aetsch: I figure the more meticulous I am with this process, the better the results will be, and the easier life will be for me and the girls from here on out. Having dogs I can leave is worth everything, including sacrificing a bit of my sanity! 

Btw, this picture is what they do whenever we walk in the kitchen. Always hoping to be let into their crates. They like them! They really like them! (Sorry if the pic is upside down..it flipped during the upload so I don't know how to fix it!)


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

That photo says it all! How lovely to have them waiting hopefully for crate time, insted of dreading it.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

PammiPoodle said:


> ...Btw, this picture is what they do whenever we walk in the kitchen. Always hoping to be let into their crates. They like them! They really like them! (Sorry if the pic is upside down..it flipped during the upload so I don't know how to fix it!)


Just delighted to hear of the girls' continued progress, setbacks aside. (Oh their poor little burnt paw pads!):hurt: So wonderful to see them eagerly standing by their crates. That picture is a delight! (Took the liberty of making it upright.)  Woohoo to you all! :dancing2:


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Milestones!! Yesterday I left the girls home alone for about 20 minutes while I ran a quick errand with my nieces. This was the first time I crated and left the house with my neices, and was a bit of a test to see if we're ready for September when I'll be taking my niece to daycare. The presence (and then absence) of the girls changes the criteria and might throw them off.

Nope, they did GREAT! I, however, did not - I forgot to turn on the auto-dispense!! I had ONE job!! Hahaha I noticed it when I checked on them before coming home, and they were very calm and settled. Of course, I was sure that I'd ruined everything because they couldn't possibly stay calm for ten more minutes without a single reinforcer. They were still very relaxed when I got home, and I pulled over in front of my house where the remote was in range. I just held down the dispense button for more than ten seconds! A constant stream of treats, a true jackpot!! Hopefully they decided that the wait was worth it! : ) I then turned on the 2-minute auto-dispense and waited outside for a while to let them have a bit more "normal" practice.

Now, today was something shorter but way more exciting to me. I left them alone while a client arrived to pick up their dog! And they were perfectly calm!! I brought the dog to the client's car, so they couldn't hear voices or anyone coming in the house. But still, they had just watched me groom the dog and they know the routine; after the groom come the visitors. Everytime. Always. So I imagined that even if I greeted my client outside, the girls might know what's up and not be able to settle. Nope! When I let them out of their grooming room crates, they were dancey and whiney like usual, expecting the excitement/stress of the owner arriving. But I then walked out of the grooming room and into the kitchen - unusual! They immediately went into their crates when I opened them, I turned on the auto-dispense and walked out. And that was it. That simple. They didn't get antsy, excited, frustrated, nothing. 

It was almost too good to be true. I even showed my client the camera feed on my phone and gushed about them! Hahaha 

I noticed Amala was doing a lot of sniffing and rooting in her bed, but didn't think much of it. When I got back in the room, I saw a whole backlog of treats stuck at the top of the "treat-shute". I don't know if she got even one the whole time! But she could hear the machine running and dispensing them. What torture! I pushed them through and she got her jackpot, and I adjusted the shute to not do that again. It's like there's a curse of technical difficulties any time it's not drill!! Haha But, fortunately, they've been taking them in stride.

I am just so excited that they could be put away for an exchange with a client. They get riled for every drop-off and pick-up, every day. I feel like it's the #1 stressor in their life that we can't even avoid. Soon it can be managed and that stress can be completely removed from their day-to-day life. : ) 

I don't feel like I can use this management for every exchange at this point, though. I'm going to start with just the pick-ups, so that when it's over and I let them out, it will be a normal, groom-dog free house. If I do this for check-ins, they might quickly figure out that when I come back for them there will be a new groom dog in the house, and start expecting something exciting like that. Check-outs are perfect, though. Brief, they may even hear someone enter the house and talk with me, but when it's over the house will be empty and all will be normal. Perfect training opportunies!! : )

*Fjm* and *Chagall's Mom*, thanks! Yes, that sight warms my heart! : )

*Chagall's Mom*, thanks for fixing the photo! I usually upload to a photo site, then paste the link in the post. But since my phone/tablet's newest update, I no longer knew how to open a second tab to do the that. And for some reason the image flipped as an attachment here! Anyway, your favor made me feel a bit lazy for not figuring out how to post the picture right in the first place. : P So, thanks for fixing it, *and* motivating me to learn the new update on my phone! Hahaha You get a bonus picture!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Sounds to me as if they are well on the way to seeing the crates as a Good Thing in their own right, with or without treats. Wonderful that they can be relaxed through something that used to be so stressful - it just shows what patience and perseverance can achieve.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

PammiPoodle said:


> *Chagall's Mom*... You get a bonus picture!


Love the adorable bonus picture and I'm over the moon happy for your training successes! :whoo:


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Another milestone!! This week I crated them to check-in a client. That means they went in their crates when the house was normal and visitor-less, and when I released them, I had a cute little Yorkie in my arms. 

They didn't give her a second glance, as they're normally unconcerned by dogs that are on the table or in my arms. But still, since this one came out of nowhere, I didn't know if they'd be thrown. Nope! They followed me into the grooming room, went into their grooming crates, and napped while I worked.

I think they *were* a little confused when I closed their grooming crates and just began the groom, without walking away to greet a client at the door. That's the usual drill, and they hate it. They go into their crates nervously, Amala even whines, and once I'm out of the room they both start barking! 

If I can keep putting them in their "safe space" - the kitchen crates - for check-ins, then they won't have to go through that anymore! And the groom dog doesn't have to hear other distressed dogs as they walk in the door. And I don't have to feel embarrassed that I, the canine "professional", can't even manage something as simple as 5 minutes of quiet from my dogs! : P

Also, for this check-in and a couple of the check-outs that they've been put away for, I did greet the client inside, not at their car. So Lumi and Amala could hear visitors talking with me, and the groom dogs walking, sniffing, and tag-jingling around our feet (though a bit muffled by white noise in the kitchen). And still calm and quiet!

Today I ran an errand that had me out of the house for 40 minutes. The dogs were fine and happy with their treat machines delivering every two minutes, on average. It's definitely the longest we can do until they're ready for the five minute average setting. They were like stuffed turkeys after that many treats in 40 minutes! Haha

Btw, I use the word "treat" loosely. They actually get mostly kibble from the machines, with about 10% chickpeas to add variety. I call their kibble treats - they don't seem to disagree!

Pro (obsessed-owner) tip! Run your nanny cam audio through your Bluetooth to monitor your dogs the entire time you're away, even during conversations with other people! Hahahaha


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

I just left them alone for one hour! ONE WHOLE HOUR!!!!! :whoo: 

I still have to be on the property since we're between time settings on the machine so I have to use the remote. Can't wait to hit the next setting and just set it, and forget it! And do whatever I want for one hour!! Can't believe we're finally putting this separation anxiety behind us! :amen:


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

You are so awesome! Rock it girl!!!


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Oodles of progress! The girls are only one minute away from the long treat interval they need for me to just let the machine run while I'm not home (and be gone longer than 30 minutes)! Hoping to be there by the end of the week! : D

We've reached a point now where a "bad run" - as will sometimes happen if someone needs to potty or hears a strange sound or any number of things is off - does not leave a bad taste in their mouth. They used to be so biased to hating alone time, that just one failure would overshadow weeks of happy, restful alone sessions, and undo some of our progress. 

Now, even when they do pout or whine a bit during a session, we rarely lose any progress as they don't seem to associate their bad feeling with the fact that they were alone. I mean, alone happens everyday, and includes tasty treats. If one time they're scared or uncomfortable, in their minds, it probably has nothing to do with being alone. We still sometimes have to go back a step because I asked too much, but not 3 steps because they became extra wary.

On my days off when I can really prioritize training, they have two 30-45 minute alone sessions. Nearly every normal day they have one session. It's rare that we miss, I can almost always just do a quick 10 or 15 if it's all we have time for. 

It's just becoming a normal part of life for them now. And not in a so-just-deal-with-it way, but in a I-love-this-part-of-the-day way. : ) I'm starting to feel like a fit Mom who is actually giving them the quality of life they deserve! :angel:


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

You truly are an example of someone who refused to give up on a tough situation. I love that your dogs are now not upset when there is a glitch in their treat dispenser. What a success story!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

You are a true beacon leader for what thought, patience and persistance can achieve! I think we all tend to try desensitising and counter conditioning, keep it up rather erratically for a few weeks, then decide it is not working and forget about it - your two happy little dogs show how important it is to take things slowly, and not to be discouraged by early hiccups. Many, many congratulations to you and to Lumi and Amala!


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

A-MAZE-ING!!!!! 

I really haven't got the words to express how impressed I am by how you have worked with the girls and yourself to get to this point. When you read back some of your older posts it is clear you have come such a tremendous way both with getting the girls onto a much more even keel and also getting yourself calmer and enjoying life!!

We know you've had set-backs but you have overcome them and not given up.

You truly are an inspiration, PammiPoodle!!!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

That is great to see! It is so wonderful that you have continuously updated this thread. If others follow your lead they will surely work through whatever issue they may be dealing with.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Today was deadline day! The first day I took my niece to pre-school. And we made it! The dogs were up to the longest treat interval setting on the machine. An average of five minutes between treats, but sometimes the interval is as long as ten. Ten minutes alone without a single reward! 

The girls did great! I was gone for about 45 minutes. I had their camera audio playing through my bluetooth the whole time (except when I lost signal inside the pre-school building, about 10 minutes). I heard not one peep or whine. Every time I looked at my phone, they either had their heads down settled, or were eating a treat.

I did rig a pb-stuffed Kong to drop into their crates about 10 minutes after I left, so they had an extra special surprise for this session! 

I couldn't be happier! They are up to the long interval! I can leave the property for tasks under an hour and have happy, comfortable dogs waiting at home! I can't even believe this is real!! :jaw::elephant::elephant::elephant:

Oh, and my niece did excellent, as well! All smiles and literally pushed me out of the classroom so she could play with her friends! But this wasn't her first day, just the first day that I brought her. I'll be bringing her about once a week from now on. And not fretting about it one bit! : )

*Charmed*, thank you! And, "a glitch in their treat dispenser" - you talkin' 'bout me? Haha I glitch out sometimes and don't reward when I should! 

But, as far as the Treat & Trains, Amala had the best glitch a couple days ago. It got stuck in dispense mode! Constant! I was in the shower (yup, I monitor them and use the remote while I shower - I have to multi-task to fit in two 30+ minute sessions!), and watched feeling helpless for almost ten seconds. What do I do?! But when my brain clicked on again I just pressed the dispense button and it seemed to reset it. Thank goodness! 

And, yea, it has been very tough at times (I'm sure it will be again as we continue to progress), and I have given up many times! But, the good thing about being a quitter is that I also would give up on quitting eventually and try again! : P

*Fjm*, thank you! "I think we all tend to try desensitising and counter conditioning, keep it up rather erratically for a few weeks, then decide it is not working and forget about it." Yes, this is exactly what happens! I still do it! It really takes time to see a new emotional response after something's gotten, and it's easy to think that nothing is happening and give up. This has taken a lot of time, and hopefully this experience will help me "keep the faith" and stick it out with other conditioning we need to do, like bath time and being handled by strangers/the vet!

*Manxcat*, thank you! I was also just scrolling through the early days. I'd almost forgotten how hard it was for all three of us. I need to remember that stuff so I can not give up when it gets tough with other training. Kind of like what I just said to Fjm, just another way to help me stick things out!

*Lily cd re*, thanks! It would be awesome if this thread helps other people/dogs achieve their training goals. It definitely helps me! : )


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Congratulations! You set a target, decided on a method, stuck at it, and helped your dogs to get there! And now all of you get to reap the benefits for years to come. Well done, all three.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

This story is the model of how persistence, patience and being consistent even if there were set backs get things accomplished. I think too many people try something and when they don't get instant results they give up. I guess it is one of the consequences of our instant gratification based society. As fjm said so well you all will derive benefits from this for years to come.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Thank you so much! Yes, I'm excited about the benefits for all three of us! I can get some distance and enjoy more of the dog-free side of life (movie theatres are still around, right?), and they can just stay home whenever it's not an ideal outing for dogs to tag along.

Today I left them home alone for an hour! Then when I came back inside, I sat in the entry area for about 20 minutes. They heard me come in and looked a bit hopeful for a minute or two, but then settled down as much as before. 

However, at the end of those 20 minutes Lumi whined with her head still down. Not super upset, but feeling the strain, I guess. A minute or two later, I walked in the kitchen where they were crated. 

I discovered that Amala had been going without treats for probably the last half of the outing! Tube was jammed with a huge backlog of treats that never got to her! Oops! If that had been Lumi, she would've lost it long ago! : P

End result, they both did great today, for over an hour on the longest treat interval! Amala managed near-treatless for the last half, and Lumi wasn't quite comfortable with the suden increase in time. That's okay! I guess it was a bit of an experiment on my part; Just how long *can* they do?

They also had another pb-Kong dispensed about 20 minutes in. That might've help tide Amala over with her jammed machine! :amen:


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

*PammiPoodle*, If they gave ribbons, trophies and titles for devotion, patience, persistence and _truly_ caring for your poodle's emotional state, and helping them comfortably adjust to feeling safe and content, you would be first in the winner's circle, best in show all the way! You really are one heck of a stellar poodle owner, role model and clearly a very good hearted woman. :adore:
:first:


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Yup! You totally get the 1st prize for patience and persistence! You're much better than I could EVER be Hahaha!!!!!!!


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Aw, thank you both! That's so sweet! I hope my pups think I'm so devoted, especially considering how often I've been "ditching" them lately! : P

Today was my first time making an actual social outing during one of their sessions, not just running a needed errand! I visited a friend with a new baby, who has been hard to spend time with when I previously had to manage my dogs around her cats (one of which especially dislikes the dogs and can be aggressive) and her baby who likes the dogs a bit *too* much! : P

She's ten minutes away so I spent over a half an hour with her and her baby/critters, undistracted by dogs! It was lovely! I still braced myself and prepared to keep the dogs close and calm when the cat came near, but then realized I didn't have to referee anything. Great!

When I walked through my front door, I dispensed a treat before I came into the kitchen, but Lumi wasn't interested. I think she was a bit too excited at the prospect of me coming back in. We need to put some work into that aspect for her. She does well with silence throughout the house, and with me making noise in the house. But she gets a bit too tense when the noise begins again after a long silence. 

Probably reminds her of the way she used to feel, before we started this training. I would always be gone for more than a half and hour, the house would be empty and quiet, and my return would be a BIG deal to her! Would hate for her to lose her calm if someday I return after 30 minutes because I forgot something and then just leave again. We'll keep working on that. : )


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Still doing good! We had a hiccup after reaching an hour on the 5-minute treat setting. I think I rushed the interval increase a bit, and also abused the one hour limit by giving them only one hour sessions for several days, without mixing in short ones! 

The behavior fell apart almost completely! Lumi started whining and barking within the first five minutes, for each session, each day, for about three days! I was crushed, obviously. We took about 3 or 4 days off. No kitchen-crating. The dogs and I were both sad about it. Then the "grand reopening" started with under-ten-minute sessions with very frequent treats. Within about four days, and 6 or 7 sessions, we were back to the hour long sessions with treats every five minutes! Phew! Now I'm being more careful to keep things less predictable, and throw more short sessions into the mix!

Yesterday I played with my 4 year old niece at the park without the dogs. I could climb on everything in the playground with her, go down the slide, and race around the field with her! So fun and freeing - for both of us!! 

I'm still monitoring them with my earpiece whenever I go out. I'm not sure when it'll be enough successful outings for me to decide I don't need to listen in anymore. Haha We'll still be training for a while, though. I want to lower the treat rate to 30-60 minutes, or even none at all. And I need to build then up to several hours alone. So, I expect I'll be monitoring them when out for a long time still! : P. Small price to pay for the reward of dogs I can leave home and happy! : D


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