# Could I train my pup at home?



## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Absolutely! I home-trained my mpoo. He is a delight to live with, has his CGC, and if I get my lazy-bones around to taking him for the test, he'll hopefully soon have his TDI certification as well. Don't forget it's also important to socialize your pup with other dogs. Chagall and I have belonged to a dog hiking club that meets once or twice weekly since he's a pup. He learned more than a few lessons about good doggy communications and manners from the dogs there. There's a wealth of good (and not so good, IMHO!) dog training advice on-line. I learned a lot from some wonderful video and book series. If you want to see the results of a little bit of home training, take a look at this! 

IMG_0011 - YouTube


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

You can certainly train your puppy yourself - in fact, you can think of every moment of every day as being "training", as your pup learns about the world, and the best ways of coping in it. But it is very important for your puppy to meet lots of dogs of different ages, sizes and types in happy circumstances - and sometimes a good puppy class is the quickest and easiest way. I also found the qualified instructor very helpful with all the issues that cropped up during my puppies' early months. A bad class - one based on forceful, confrontational methods, or with snarky out of control youngsters allowed to bully the other pups, is worse than useless, but a good class can help to set you both on the right track, and both the instructor and the other puppy owners can be a source of information and reassurance.

Even if you do choose to go to a class, that is just one or two hours a week - far more important is what happens during the other 167 hours! Somewhere on PF there is a very helpful post of dog books, including many training manuals. One I would recommend (if only because it helps you to realise just how much goes into making sure a dog really understands how to follow a cue in all places and in all circumstances) is Jean Donaldson's "Train your dog like a pro" - it includes a DVD, where you see her applying positive techniques not only totraining dogs, but also their owners!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

I think this is the thread with the outstanding reading list *fjm* mentioned above!

http://www.poodleforum.com/23-gener...d-based-training-reading-list.html#post192149


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## Eclipse (Apr 26, 2010)

Hi W.susie,

It depends on any number of factors. Have you ever trained a dog before? Have you had poodles before? What size poodle are you getting? Even if you have trained before, at the very least I think you should plan to attend a puppy kindergarten type class for your puppy to learn proper socialization with other dogs and for you to work on basic training principles. For example, do you plan to train using a buckle collar or a choke collar. If you are going to use a choke, do you know how to properly fit and put it on - you would be amazed at how many people don't. Are you going to do positive or negative reinforcement training, or a combo of both, or do you also subscribe to negative punishment training, are you going to clicker train? Do you know the mechanics of actually teaching a proper sit or down? These are just a couple things to think about, there are many more.

It also depends on what kind of training you want to do with your dog. If you want the dog to learn some basic obedience/tricks you may be able to do that at home. But training at home doesn't expose the dog to all the outside situations and influences you will need to proof against. Because your dog will heel with you in your backyard does not mean it will heel with you on a crowded street. Because your dog will do a recall in your backyard does not mean it will come to you if it is off leash in a park. 

I show and have titled my dog at upper levels in multiple venues (obedience, rally, agility) so I train on an ongoing basis in group and private classes even though my dog just turned 5. But many people I know who did not want to show their dogs still went through several levels of group classes (puppy kindergarten for 6 sessions and pre-novice and novice for 8 week sessions each) before they were confident the dog and they had received appropriate instruction to continue on their own.

Eclipse


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Eclipse said:


> It also depends on what kind of training you want to do with your dog. If you want the dog to learn some basic obedience/tricks you may be able to do that at home. But training at home doesn't expose the dog to all the outside situations and influences you will need to proof against. Because your dog will heel with you in your backyard does not mean it will heel with you on a crowded street. Because your dog will do a recall in your backyard does not mean it will come to you if it is off leash in a park.


I just want to clarify while I home-trained Chagall, I have had dogs for over 40 years and attended various dog training classes in the past. I have also worked one-on-one with a certified positive-reinforcement dog trainer. 

My dog being home-trained did not negate him being socialized and out among other dogs and in various public places for proofing. I "home trained" him, meaning we did not attend dog training classes. I did, however, bring him to many different venues, including outdoor shopping malls, public parks, cities, fairs, cafes, outside public schools with children coming and going, to the dog park and into stores where permitted to proof and reinforce his training. Yes, I am just a pet owner with a mpoo who does a couple of silly tricks, but he is also well-behaved and welcomed nearly everywhere we go because of it. He has good leash manners, great recall, is friendly and appropriate with children and adults alike and does well in the company of other dogs.

I have nothing for but admiration for those like you who train more formally and achieve so much. I just want to say, based on my own experience and requirements for having a good companion dog, home training--meaning done by the owner, not just exclusively in the home environment, worked well for me. So I do believe it to be doable, and for some of us, preferable, for one reason or another. Your point is very well taken that the decision where and how to train depends on what it is the owner wishes to accomplish with their dog!


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Oh well, they're all silly tricks really...except for the service/assistance dogs, who expects their dog to do any really important functions after the training? It's not like they're going to go rock those weave poles along the way to get help in an emergency, lol. The important thing is to work with our dogs consistently to achieve some reliable responses to the basics so that they are good companions, have good manners so they don't get on others' nerves or get themselves hurt in situations where a reliable "come" or a "down" may make a difference. Anyone can teach their dog a few basics at home with the help of books or videos...after that, we are all just in it for the fun


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## LauraRose (Dec 26, 2012)

Eclipse said:


> Are you going to do positive or negative reinforcement training, or a combo of both, or do you also subscribe to negative punishment training, are you going to clicker train?


Just a note on terminology:
Reinforcement training can, & usually will, include both positive (+) & negative (-) components. All reinforcement (R) training has the same goal in mind: to increase a behavior's occurrence. Hence the name. You are reinforcing something: sitting, not pulling, what have you. 

All the + & - refers to is whether you are adding something, a treat perhaps, or taking something away, like when you stop if the dog is pulling at the leash. 
Giving treat when dog sits to increase sit behavior = +R. 
Stopping the walk to increase loose leash behavior = -R. 

As with +/-R training, +/- Punishment training simply means whether you are adding a negative stimulus, or taking one away. 
I don't use Punishment training, but the principles are easily understood. 

Popping a collar, using a prong collar, shocking/Ecollars are all example of Positive Punishment, since you are adding an undesired stimulus. Caesar Milan uses +Punishment techniques quite often. 

Negative punishment is trickier & I'm having trouble thinking of real-life examples. There are plenty of lab experiments that utilize this though:
Say a rat's cage floor is electrified until he presses the lever. His reward is the floor cage being de-electrified. His lever pressing caused the negative stimulus to be removed. 
Is an alpha roll -Punishment within itself? Perhaps. Depending on why the dog was rolled. Details. 

Anyway, hope this helps, from a conditioning & learning standpoint. 
The terms are often confused. 


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## Eclipse (Apr 26, 2010)

Below is an example of negative punishment.
"With negative punishment, we take away something that the dog likes: attention, an expected treat, freedom in space (time-outs), etc. 
Here's an example. Let's say your dog, Fido, barks at you for attention. What do you do? Negatively punish him for barking. He barks, you turn around and leave the room, not allowing him to follow. Or he barks and you look away. You remove the expected reward (attention) and eventually the behavior goes away. Better yet, look away and wait for him to sit. Then reward him by turning back around. Soon you have a dog who quietly sits for attention!"
Eclipse


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## Eclipse (Apr 26, 2010)

Chagall's Mom,

I am not criticizing what you have done with Chagall by any means and I was not demeaning his home training or trick skills. Tricks are great!! My own spoo does a bunch of tricks in addition to her performance training including playing the piano, and I am currently teaching her to ride a skateboard. And as someone else mentioned, all the behaviors, even the more formal obedience, rally, and agility behaviors could be construed as "tricks" of a sort. 

However, as you pointed out, you have had dogs for over 40 years and have attended training classes in the past. The wording in the OP's post made it seem as if she did not have much background in training. And, as someone who has had dogs for so long and trained before, you also understood the importance of socializing Chagall so he learned proper behavior and to hold those behaviors around other dogs and people in a variety of situations. 

I have been around many dogs who come into class at a year or 2 when their owners are at their wits end and the dogs are unruly and under socialized because their owners thought they could train them at home and didn't know what they were doing. Chagall has a CGC as does my girl. I can say without reservation that the majority of dogs I have seen trained exclusively at home by owners who did not have prior training experience would not be able to pass even the CGC test.

Eclipse


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## HerdingStdPoodle (Oct 17, 2012)

*Training At Home*

This is a very informative thread. Thank you! When I got my first Spoo a few years ago---I definitely needed help. Still do! Eclipse, your question, "Have you had poodles before" really rang true for me. Even though I had trained several dogs before, I had never had a poodle and definitely needed help with my Spoo. Talking to and observing fellow poodle owners in classes helped me a lot. HerdingStdPoodle


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Eclipse said:


> Chagall's Mom,
> I am not criticizing what you have done with Chagall by any means and I was not demeaning his home training or trick skills.


No worries! It never crossed my mind you were!


Eclipse said:


> However, as you pointed out, you have had dogs for over 40 years and have attended training classes in the past. The wording in the OP's post made it seem as if she did not have much background in training. And, as someone who has had dogs for so long and trained before, you also understood the importance of socializing Chagall so he learned proper behavior and to hold those behaviors around other dogs and people in a variety of situations.


Completely valid! In my initial post when I urged the OP to be certain her pup was socialized with others dogs, I was too brief. I was remiss in not mentioning the need for training to be ongoing, as *fjm *noted in her post, in all interactions and all settings all the time. Yup! Good thing to highlight for sure.


Eclipse said:


> I have been around many dogs who come into class at a year or 2 when their owners are at their wits end and the dogs are unruly and under socialized because their owners thought they could train them at home and didn't know what they were doing. Chagall has a CGC as does my girl. I can say without reservation that the majority of dogs I have seen trained exclusively at home by owners who did not have prior training experience would not be able to pass even the CGC test.


I imagine a good number of dog owners _do_ come to class after failing to train their dogs on their own and as a result the owners are frantic and the dogs out-of-control. 

My thought is someone as pensive as the OP appears to be in asking the great series of questions she has since joining the forum may be the type of owner who will fully commit to doing the work training takes, whether she trains in class or at home. I think there are abundant good training resources available, including having a professional trainer to one's home to set up and monitor a program. 

I think this thread is a terrific opportunity for members to share their experiences and I am very interested in and appreciative of hearing them. I will just add that I have never had a dog that's been easier to train than the mpoo I now have. I "cut my teeth" on beagles and terriers. Having a poodle makes me appear to be a far better trainer than I know I am.

Nice to have the chance to discuss things with you!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

One huge benefit I got from taking mine to classes was discovering just how well behaved and easy to train mine were compared to all the other pups. Except for retrieving, and Sophy doing Agility, of course! Sophy didn't like jumping, saw no reason why she should jump when she could go round, under, or if all else failed, through the jump, and not even chicken was going to change her mind about it. As the only reason we were there was to have fun, I accepted her decision - but while we went she was the dog that made everyone else feel better about their ability to train! When I took Poppy to the same class, she made me look brilliant - loved all of it, jumped anything, and read the tiniest hand signal or tilt of the head! I should have continued, but I was getting paranoid about slipping on the wet field...

One thing I would say is to choose your class with care - it really is worth sitting in on several without your pup, and getting a feel for how the style and methods might work for you. Run from any class that uses anything other than a flat collar or a harness on a young puppy - we've debated choke, prong and ecollars elsewhere, but I don't think anyone would recommend them for a puppy, especially a small breed pup. I also expect instructors to be kind and polite to both dogs and owners - ritual humiliation does not make for a good learning environment!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

One of the smartest things the OP has done here is ask before she got the puppy. Advance planning goes a long way in all things. 

I agree with fjm that your life with your dog can be continuous training. There are teachable moments everywhere.

To W.Susie you should make sure you socialize your puppy well when young. See Ian Dunbar's website Dog Star Daily for great information on the importance of socialization. You should also do work with your pup yourself to build your relationship. Like Eclipse I do performance sports with Lily and have lots of titles, but the best reward to me out of all that work is the depth and continuous growth of our relationship. When you get your puppy you will build a great relationship by spending training time in as many settings as possible.


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## WillyBilly (Jan 8, 2013)

I began obedience training with Willy 7 weeks ago. The trainer was highly recommended by other SPOO owners. He has several training facilities, none sparkly shiny or clean, but each provides a unique environment which addresses distractions of all kinds. With each class I became more confident with training. I signed up for a 1 year training course. I can train once a week or three times a week. Wednesdays is in a cluttered antique mall. Great place fore basic training. During warmer times, training will be in the malls parking lot. Thursday is at his farm. During rain & cold weather we train in a real old barn that has old furniture and lots of cats to tease the dogs. And old agility fixtures. The furniture assists in training sniffing dogs. In good weather we move outside in a huge fenced area with lots of trees to hide behind, as well as noisy teeter totters and tunnels for those owners wanting that. This same area is utilized as a dog park for clients only. My year membership includes the training of my two chihuahuas too. Saturday mornings are at the farm too. People more serious with training their dogs show up at the farm. I'm really enjoying this and I'm so proud of Willy. Without these classes I wouldn't have known what to do. I also think willy learns by seeing other dogs too. 


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

WillyBilly that sounds like a very cool trainer and great resources he has available. Having a dog that is perfect at home but too distracted to remember who you are or too nervous around strange things to feel safe and confident is not the end result we want. Your creative situation with all its scenarios sound like great proofing.


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## WillyBilly (Jan 8, 2013)

This trainer also travels to the Chicago area where he has another facility. He mentioned that he trains there Monday nights (6PM). My daughter lives maybe 25 minutes from there so I asked if that facility was available to me. It sure was. It's a real possibility ill go there. The whole area has l of forestry areas. Duck and water exposure would be great. 


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