# Poodle x dog colour question



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Welcome!

With so many breeds involved, I’m not sure there’s any way to know how she’ll turn out. That’s a _lot_ of variables.  But I doubt she’ll stay a true black.


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## Eclipse (Apr 26, 2010)

Penelope1803 said:


> Hello all,
> I’m new to the forum but also new enough to poodles as more than “they’re adorable”.
> 
> I’m wondering if you have any ideas on how this puppy will look like once fully grown. I’m aware that black dogs may never change colour but at the same time I read a few stories where they have.
> ...


There is no way anyone can predict what your dog will look like due to the mixing in of the other breeds which muddles the color genetics of the poodle stud (and truthfully, who knows what his genetics are if the stud owner was willing to purposely breed to some mixed breed bitch).


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Hi and Welcome!

I am sorry that we aren't able to help with your color question. We'd be in the same boat if you were to ask about health issues from genetic origins. 

Here's an explanation 

*Canine Genome Summary*
_ *What is the Canine Genome?*

A dog's body contains trillions of cells. Most of these cells contain a nucleus. 

*In dogs, 38 pairs of autosomes (non-sex chromosomes) can be found in every nucleus, for a total of 76 chromosomes plus the two sex chromosomes (X and Y) for a grand total of 78. During conception, a dog gets one copy of each chromosome from each parent*. 

Chromosomes are made of deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA), the "molecule of life".


DNA is made up of small chemical building blocks called "nucleotides" or "bases," which come in four types: adenine (A), guanine (G), cytosine (C) and thymine (T). All living organisms, including humans, use this four-letter code. The bases are paired in fixed units of adenine-thymine (A-T) and guanine-cytosine (G-C). Dogs have approximately three billion base pairs in each cell. 

*Genes are defined by a unique sequence of nucleotides which can be as few as a hundred bases or as many as a million. The sequence of each gene is called its �code.� For example, the code from one gene may lead to proteins that add color to a hair shaft, the code from another gene produces enzymes to digest food, and a third gene will direct the formation of antibodies that fight diseases. *

For a given gene the code is a very precise; a single mistake in the DNA sequence could have disastrous consequences for the health of your dog.


*Each of the 78 chromosomes contains the codes for hundreds of genes.* 

Genes encode the necessary machinery for manufacturing proteins, which in turn make up the body�s physical structure. Proteins are needed for all of the key systems in the body such as the nervous system or the digestive system.

*Each gene has a specific code that is passed from parent to offspring*. 

The term "canine genome" refers to the entire sequence of the dog genome including all the genes and the spaces in between. 

*Genes can determine how your dog will develop from the color of his fur to his personality traits and, in some cases, the diseases your dog will be susceptible to.*_


Multiply that by three breeds with different genetic characteristics and you'll see the difficulty. 

If you have more poodle specific questions, we're happy to help


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

So the darker brown poodle is when the dad was younger, and the pale beige with when he is mature? If so, then he certainly carries the 'fading gene', he looks silver beige to me in which case he would pass that fading gene to all of the pups (if he is cafe then he could pass it to only some). This means that your black puppy will likely lighten/fade. But, I don't know anything about bichon color genetics, or cavalier beyond the basics- I don't think they normally fade but ??- and definitely don't know how they combine with each other or with poodle so unless the family you are getting her from have examples of previous pups, I would say it's a mystery!


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## Penelope1803 (Feb 27, 2021)

Thanks everyone for the response. I know it’s not a “true poodle” question, and I’m trying to understand how the poodle will affect it. The other mix tends to lighten a little but not much.

The poodle is what is confusing to me. I’m trying to see if he carries the fading gene or not. The breeder told me the photo where he is lighter is after his groom and before it he’s darker. The photo of two dogs he’s at the back, so his colour changes quite a lot, which is so different to me. As I said,I’m not familiar with poodle genetics.

Appreciate the answers!


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

Black toy poodles with two non-black parents very often slowly fade to "blue"; you initially would see gray and/or brown hairs sprinkling in the hair, usually starting at 18 months to 2 years old and progressing. One other thing I noticed, and it might be too early to tell and from only one photo, but I suspect this one will have fairly short legs.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Penelope1803 said:


> I’m trying to understand how the poodle will affect it. The other mix tends to lighten a little but not much.


This is not a scientific site but a breeder's perspective on poodle color breeding. It might help you get a feeling for why poodle colors can be quite tricky 






COLOR BREEDING IN POODLES


ARPEGGIO Poodles information on color breeding in poodles



arpeggiopoodles.tripod.com


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

Penelope1803 said:


> Thanks everyone for the response. I know it’s not a “true poodle” question, and I’m trying to understand how the poodle will affect it. The other mix tends to lighten a little but not much.
> 
> The poodle is what is confusing to me. I’m trying to see if he carries the fading gene or not. The breeder told me the photo where he is lighter is after his groom and before it he’s darker. The photo of two dogs he’s at the back, so his colour changes quite a lot, which is so different to me. As I said,I’m not familiar with poodle genetics.
> 
> Appreciate the answers!



So both darker and lighter are at maturity? He could be a chocolate sable then. Normally a sable is tan (darker or lighter) with black tipped hairs, but if he also is bb (so chocolate/brown in place of black) then that would be cream/beige with brown tipped hairs. That would make him darker when long haired and light when trimmed.
Many sables have heavier tipping on the ears so that fits.
But tbh he really looks like a silver beige or cafe au lait to me...

Lol that would throw another whole twist in the color game for sure though!
I believe sables often look like solid dark color at birth and they lighten up as they age.


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