# Puppy Boot Camp



## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

I accidentally posted this in another thread in Poodle Talk - I meant to start a new thread here! Oops! Here goes:

I am thinking of enrolling Dulcie in a puppy boot camp near here. I've read fantastic reviews and it sounds like it might be just the thing for us. Although I am seeing progress with her, in many ways I find myself very frustrated at times because just as I praise, she begins something really NOT ok and then I've reinforced an undesirable behavior. The puppy classes are helpful from a socialization standpoint (but only to a point - most of the other owners hold their dogs on a tight leash and I wind up spending a lot of time in the class pulling Dulcie away as she tries to play with all the other dogs) but most of all, I learn a bit and I hear a lot that I already have learned on here and from reading. I try to practice at home mostly (which I am sure is the real point) and yet I am frustrated that I am not seeing much real progress.

Don't get me wrong - Dulcie is learning and she is doing really well in many ways - however it is clear to me that I have a growing dominance issue and I am not very skilled at how to handle that.

I would be interested in others' opinions on the idea of a puppy boot camp. This would involve my leaving Dulcie there for a week or more while they train her and then I would attend a training session with her before taking her home. I have heard a lot of great things about this training outfit - and some of the nicest and best behaved dogs I have met have been trained at least partly in this manner.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I personally do NOT recommend the type of training where you send your puppy away. Also, I would hesitate to label your pup with a "dominance" problem. If you don't feel that the group classes are beneficial you could try individual training lessons or group classes with a different training club and work on your timing for reinforcement. I use a marker word "yes!!!" and load it like you would with a clicker. This way you say the marker word right when the good behavior happens. It doesn't matter if you feed be treat after another behavior has happened - As long the pup knows the marker word, she will know what she did right.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

I hear you CM. "Dominance" may not be the right word - and yet, she is still humping my legs in spite of my consistent reaction (turning aside, statue, etc), she will go through her puppy skills (sit down etc) for treats - perfectly - if she is in the mood - and if she is not, she will decide not to. Walking on leash is a nightmare of lunging and pulling most of the time. And at other times, she walks perfectly (with lots of praise from me). It just seems that she is controlling when and if she will comply with my commands and not me.

I should add that when practicing leash walking, I am consistent about stopping until she stops pulling. The moment I start off again, she is lunging forward immediately. I just came in from a lurching walk which was literally one step, lunge, stop. One step, lunge stop. Eventually I was concerned that she was exhausting herself (and all that pulling and lunging on her collar) -- she was panting and exhausted, so after 15 long frustrating minutes, I picked her up and carried her home.

I am just really getting concerned - she isn't 10 lbs anymore either. I seem to have no control over her and I am getting concerned. I've worked with her every day - it has been my main focus from the day she came home. Still, I am not seeing this aspect improve, it is perhaps getting worse.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Right, I hear ya! Puppies will be puppies! If what you're not happy with your progress, I would definitely look into some private training lessons.  I would steer clear of sending your pup away for someone else to train though.


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

I second the private training. What type of leash are you using with Dulcie... a Flexi- or a lead? I have been doing private training with Willow, I really enjoy it and the trainer is focused on you and your dog instead of whoever else.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Yes I third private training. I just don't believe in the bootcamp type training where the dog is sent away. Part of dog training is teaching the owner as well.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Since we're still under "quarantine", I decided to get Buck some private lessons. I'm going to continue with them. We worked off lead, in Buck's part of the house and outside. Best of all the bad behavior enabler, my husband, got a lesson too. (Stop praising a nippy jumper!) it was fun, personalized and I didn't have the stress, mine and Buck's, or the chaos of a puppy class. Buck got all of the trainer's attention and admiration. I could really listen. It was a very good experience. Buck, best student in the class (ha!), loved it. Gave me confidence too.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I also would avoid 'boot camp'. I thought about it too when my spoo was a pup during those frustrating stages. However someone pointed out to me that we aren't there to see what happens, so I asked if I could attend. The answer was a firm NO. Upon further questioning they finally admitted they were using shock collars and punishment methods. I dropped that idea quickly. 

Then I went on a search for a trainer. The first two trainers I tried did not help much, even with private. I finally found an expert through my vet. Her classes were exceptional, as were her private lessons. 

Another thing I discovered was that if I got him good and tired before I did his training sessions, either with her, or just with my own practicing, that it really improved his responses. Is there a place he can chase you, or balls, or frisbees to help him get enough exercise first?


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Make sure the private lessons are good. In my area it is so expensive so I found a good deal with Bark-busters for a year of training for around 6oo$ . I thought that sounded amazing so I went for it.
As a new dog owner I purchased that before bringing Zoe home. Now I found it is a waste of money. He hasn't done squat. I guess I can make some more lessons since paid for.
If you are doing private lessons before you plop down money make sure the person will be helpful and have many suggestions. See if you can call other people who they worked with before.


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

I suggest going through your vet, too. I did not...but only because I had a friend who'd just used the same trainer.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Groomers are also a good source of information on trainers. My vet had the Bark Buster's brochures, but his receptionist said they hadn't gotten any positive feedback on them. If I had pre-paid them, I would feel compelled to use them and would insist on their best reviewed trainer or the franchise owner.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Private trainer!!!!!!!!!!!! It will not help you to send Dulcie away and then just get a session where they show you what she's done. Work on your timing for reinforcing if you need to. I agree with CM to use a word (I also use an enthusiastic yes) rather than a clicker if timing is an issue. My clicker timing stinks, but I can always put a word on the right instant. 

Humping is not about dominance or sex in puppies. It is about excitement and not knowing what else to do with themselves.

If you go to the APDT website https://apdt.com/trainer-search/ you will be able to search a member trainer directory there. Look for someone who has CDPT-KA certification if possible and don't hesitate to reject someone who you don't think will be a good match for you. I always give a free consult to new folks so that we can evaluate the issues as well as getting a feel for whether we will be a good fit.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Sorry for the double post. (SPOO duties...). My trainer, an owner of a Border Collie, says to expect the puppy stuff to get worse before it gets better. Of course, I knew that but it's comforting to hear. OFTEN. The best piece of equipment I have, is something my breeder gave me: a slip lead. It's light and very convenient, since Buck doesn't wear a collar in the house. I use it for potty in the dark and as an intro to leash walking. Won't work for much longer, but I don't have door drama fumbles. He can drag it without feeling the weight of it and I can pick it up for practice or safety.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Thank you, everyone, for talking me down off that ledge!

Haha, last night we went to a make up puppy class (I had to miss the regular one due to a commitment that went on much longer than expected) - and ho boy! She lunged, she nipped, she BARKED and BARKED. I was almost ready to slink out of there in shame. Then one of the instructors (I really liked these instructors - wish I had been in this class all along) came along and said what you've said here - she is a puppy and entering adolescence and its normal. She is smart and she is lively and she is also doing pretty well really! (That last part, I think she was being kind as Dulcie was at that moment hanging off my jeans by her teeth!)

I bucked up though and decided to just have fun with it and not stress out so much. Yes, it had crossed my mind that we are going to flunk the Star Puppy test next week but hey, it has still been fun and she got to meet a ton of new dogs. Which was kind of the problem. lol At home,s he does all her exercises really well - but with the distractions of 5-6 other dogs in the ring (and more in other rings) it is just too exciting for her. The woman who was so kind, also pointed out that these were all NEW dogs again, since we were joining a new class for the evening.

Anyway, she did settle down a bit and did beautifully on a few things. Then they set up the tunnel and a little jump. hahahaaaaaa. I was thinking Oh GOODY! DUlcie loves this tunnel! And so up she went, and then she jumped ON it - the instructor got her in position, I called and she ran around it. Back in position. Then she raced through - so fast I could;t grab her leash - she careened around the ring with me trying to grab her leash and just as I got hold of it, she leaped for the little jump and raced around the posts, twisting her leash around it and dragging it several feet before tipping it over. :O !!!

Let me just say I was feeling sheepish enough before th instructor took the opportunity to give us all a tip not to "chase" our dogs if they get away. Oh my, wanted to put my tail between my legs and craw, out of there. Haha Oh Dulcie! You will keep me EVER so humble!

ON the up side, they had us pass the dogs around and I was able to get every body's dog to sit, down and walk nicely! Even the little shy one who kept lying down and would not walk for her master and when walking would then not sit or down. I guess all of us owners have these embarrassing moments at puppy class! The instructor pointed out in a loud voice - LOOK! DUlcie's mom has got Gracie to down! Did you see that The fastest down I've seen her ever do!!!" and then she made me do it again and Gracie performed like a champ! A sweet little pup - a golden I think and still very young - maybe only about 11 weeks.

SO, anyway, it was all good. Of course, I left knowing that the Star Puppy test will mortify me down to my toes - especially as we are enrolled in TWO classes and still I have the wild child in every group!  Oh well. It's been great experience! 

I'm sticking with working with her myself and with classes. I will look into a private instructor if I get really frustrated again - however, I think maybe I was just exhausted the other day and just needed to chill out a bit!


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

P.S. I just wanted to add that the boot camp I had in mind uses positive reinforcement and rewards, not traditional methods. They are highly regarded. Nevertheless, I take the point about sending her away being counter-productive. I want to be the one training her and I want to build OUR relationship, not a relationship with someone else without me there.\\

Thanks for helping me think this through!


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## justaddsarah (Jan 14, 2014)

I know most people do not agree with puppy/dog bootcamp, but I personally loved it. It just so happened that I was going to be out of the country for about 3 weeks when my spoo was about 5 months old. Off to the boarder/trainer he went. Granted, my family has used this facility for years for both boarding and training classes and I love the methods they use to train dogs. I had been training my puppy at home on my own before this (he didn't have all his shots at the time to attend puppy classes) and he knew most of the basic obedience commands. After I returned I kept up the training and he's currently in an intermediate obedience class so I still get the hands on training how I want to, but it was a perfect solution in my case.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Thanks for another perspective, justaddsarah. Your remarks are similar to what I have heard about the training school I was thinking of.


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## Beaches (Jan 25, 2014)

Nifty,
So glad you've decided on another method. Dulcie is just a baby and you want to have fun with her.


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## Nicolen (Nov 24, 2013)

Nifty, you totally made my day describing your puppy class! I think Dulcie and Wallace would be fast friends! We are working on our crazy puppy issues too and it's nice to hear that other people are going through the same thing  and that it's normal. Good luck!


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Nicolen, I often read your posts and think "That is me and Dulcie right there!"  Some days, I just have to call it a challenging day and just look to tomorrow lol. Other days, I see the wonderful dog she is truly growing to be and I know we are going to be OK.

But it is really helpful and encouraging to hear from other SPOO owners and experienced dog people who watch and smile and say Yep, that is typical puppy behavior. Carry on!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

justaddsarah that certainly was fortuitous timing for you to be able to send your pup to board at a place where training would continue in your absence. For your situation and others in the same position that is way better than sending the pup to a boarding place where there wouldn't be training.

For people like nifty and Nicolen part of their goals with their pups is very dependent on the pup having great centripetal attraction for them and so training their way through adolescence sounded better for that to me.

For those of you who think you will languish and perish in adolescence with naught puppyish ways still in evidence I will tell you I've been there, done that. Lily took off and did zoomies more times than I can possibly recount for you. Not only did she regularly do it in class, she also did it in trials a couple of times as well. She has left the rally trial ring two times also. Now look where we are! It will all come together. If it did for me it will for you.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Thanks, lily cd re! That is very reassuring - especially when I look at Lily's long string of titles - she is beautiful AND accomplished!


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