# Stomach Tacking?



## rempoo (Aug 11, 2014)

I am new to owning a Standard poodle and we are getting ours this weekend.. I have heard that these breeds may need this Stomach Tacking and was wondering peoples options about it? I have ask two Vets now and they are not really for it unless it is really needed.. However, some breeders have told me to get it done at the same time as the spaying.. I really would not like to do un necessary surgery if I do not have to but will if it is needed. The breeder that we are getting it from said she has not had a problem in her line with this. Any suggestion or info would be great..


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

if you do a search on gastropexy - in the health section especially - you will find some discussions on this issue, including by people who have had it done - for good or for ill.


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## TrueColors (Nov 18, 2012)

I've heard allot of different opinions, it's quite the controversial topic. Some people praise it and other do not. I think if you have the money why not take the extra step to prevent your dog from bloating ?


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Elective gastropexy is platinum preventative vet care. I believe that every owner should talk to their vet and together evaluate the risks and the benefits. (See the threads in Health Forum.). I spoke to am Irish Setter breeder, who says her line is clear and does not do it. They are at an even higher risk than Poodles.*
My breeder does, even though her line is also clear. She thinks it makes good sense with a spay for her girls, who have done the show circuit and produced some litters. She wants them to have the longest possible life as family pets. The tack lasts about 10 years and as we have recently read not without risk. Take your time doing some soul searching, talking to your breeder and your vet; whatever you decide is your best effort for your Poodle.

*If anyone knows Great Dane owners/breeders I would love their thoughts for my decision tree.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

No such thing as a line clear of bloat


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## rempoo (Aug 11, 2014)

Thanks for everyone's reply.. I will look further into this..


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

A 'tack' involves stitching a section of intestine to the inner lining of the ribs. Scar tissue will form around the stitch permanently bonding the intestine to the ribs. 

If somebody says that that permanent bond last ten years I would be questioning them. It's like saying that a cut, stitched together and healed over, will somehow fly open after ten years. 

Also, this tack prevents bloat from torsion... absolutely, completely and forever. Tho you could probably induce non-torsion bloat by feeding your dog rocks and tennis balls.


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## poolann (Jan 31, 2013)

Tacking does not prevent bloat. Your dog can still bloat but they are less likely to torsion if they do bloat. Torsion causes constriction and tissue damage in organs which can lead to death. While it buys you time if your dog is "in bloat" or showing symptoms you should seek veterinary care immediately!

Time is of the essence in these cases. My mother lost a dog to bloat a year or two ago. 30+ years of breeding GSDs and she had never seen it. She did not believe it to be in her lines. That being said they live over an hour from the nearest veterinary ER. En route to that hospital she was calling other nearby vets & those who answered (holiday weekend) stated they were not equipped to handle the necessary surgery should it be needed. Sadly bloat is a fast killer & when they reached the hospital the vet there shook his head. After testing he said it was too late & did not recommend surgery. The dog was around 6 years old.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

My vet (who has his own spoo) did not recommend gastropexy for Lily or for Peeves.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

lily cd re said:


> My vet (who has his own spoo) did not recommend gastropexy for Lily or for Peeves.


Did he say why?


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## brownlikewoah (May 3, 2012)

I am personally not going to have the surgery done for Zora. From what I've read it is less likely for raw fed dogs to have complications from bloat. It forces her to eat slowly since it is frozen and she really doesn't get gassy. I would just follow the rule of no heavy exercise an hour before or after eating and know what the signs are. I used to work at a boarding kennel and saw probably a dozen dogs bloat, so I've got more of a visual of what to look for, so knock on wood that we have no issues. 


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

We've never had a conversation about it MiniPoo. Both of my dogs are grazers so they don't eat fast and they don't gulp a lot of air when they eat. I've never worried about it.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I honestly don't believe eating habits have much of an impact on bloat risk.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I'm not sure about that either. I think there is a genetic component, but obviously there are environmental factors at play as well. That being said, we watch closely and also take some level of comfort in knowing that neither Lily nor Peeves has relatives that bloated as far as we know.

One certainly can read a myriad of thoughts about what contributes, genetics, very cold water, eating too fast, gulping air, having to bend down to food, using an elevated bowl to feed, etc......


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## rempoo (Aug 11, 2014)

Lots or reading and getting lots of comments about this.. I thought with everything it would make it a easier but I think I am more confused as ever? I want to do the very best for my dog.. For now I guess I will get her and just watch to see how she eats and do the higher bowl and no hard play before and after meals.. To start and go from there till I have to spay her. Thanks everyone for all the input


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

lily cd re said:


> I'm not sure about that either. I think there is a genetic component, but obviously there are environmental factors at play as well. That being said, we watch closely and also take some level of comfort in knowing that neither Lily nor Peeves has relatives that bloated as far as we know.
> 
> One certainly can read a myriad of thoughts about what contributes, genetics, very cold water, eating too fast, gulping air, having to bend down to food, using an elevated bowl to feed, etc......


Have you listened to the webinar on bloat by the AKC Health Foundation? This is a great video for any poodle owner to watch, IMO. It's really not thought that it makes any difference how you feed your dog...The bigger players are genetics and anatomy as far as a basic predisposition (as seen in certain breeds) and individual factors really seem to be stress, personality, etc. but it is just not known for sure exactly what leads one individual dog to bloat.

I'm excited about the initiative and hope we learn more to help us move beyond the anecdotal information we currently have about what leads one individual dog to bloat.

Bloat: What Every Dog Owner Needs to Know | AKC Canine Health Foundation

One topic covered in the webinar is methods of prevention. She mentions that there really isn't anything, from a feeding standpoint, that is going to lessen the risk of bloat. Also, Standard Poodles are specifically indicated as a highly at risk breed and a preventative gastropexy is suggested as the single best way to prevent the individual dog from developing GDV.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

rempoo said:


> Lots or reading and getting lots of comments about this.. I thought with everything it would make it a easier but I think I am more confused as ever? I want to do the very best for my dog.. For now I guess I will get her and just watch to see how she eats and do the higher bowl and no hard play before and after meals.. To start and go from there till I have to spay her. Thanks everyone for all the input


if i may make a suggestion - i would check around to make sure i had best emergency care options lined up. there are a lot of spoo owners at pf and comparatively speaking i suspect the %age who have experienced bloat issues is not that large. but i would still have a back up plan just in case - and keep it updated.


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## SquidPup (Apr 4, 2014)

My breeder is STRICTLY against it and the elective surgery is even against her contract. She's been in the holistic pet industry for decades so I trust her judgement, along with my own experience.

I also feed bishop raw so food does not last long in his stomach and it doesn't ferment because there's no carbs. So much less gas and stress on the stomach 


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I've purchased and read the key studies. Looked at the sample sizes, footnotes and percentage of confidence that are the underpinnings of which breed is at the most risk claim. Much more study is needed and I am encouraged that so many breed clubs are contributing funding and hopefully adding to the data bank. An elective gastropexy could save your Poodle's life, but the odds are overwhelming greater that your Poodle will not experience GDV. Your dog, your decision tree.
Since I was imprecise earlier, I meant a breeder can make the claim that their line has not experienced GDV.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

SquidPup said:


> I also feed bishop raw so food does not last long in his stomach and it doesn't ferment because there's no carbs. So much less gas and stress on the stomach
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I have a hard time understanding a breeder being blanketly "against" a potentially life saving procedure but personally support every owner's right to make that choice for themselves. Raw fed dogs bloat too and there really isn't anything to suggest that it really lowers a dog's risk. We really just don't know what causes an individual dog to bloat and in my opinion it's safest to consider that any standard poodle has the potential to bloat, even though statistically the chances are greater that they won't.


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## fel (Jan 8, 2014)

Please read my post in poodle health on the dangers of elective gastropexy prior to going forward with the surgery. Long story short, my poodle puppy almost died from a post-op infection after the elective gastropexy. While I now blame his vet, the fact is that there absolutely no indicators the vet would give him poor care prior to the point of the surgery, so I had no way of predicting this would happen. If we did not have a $4,000 life saving procedure, we would have lost Kepler. Even with that procedure, he is still at risk for further infection for a period of time. 

We are heartbroken from the pain and suffering we caused our pet by electing to do this procedure.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

fel said:


> Please read my post in poodle health on the dangers of elective gastropexy prior to going forward with the surgery. Long story short, my poodle puppy almost died from a post-op infection after the elective gastropexy. While I now blame his vet, the fact is that there absolutely no indicators the vet would give him poor care prior to the point of the surgery, so I had no way of predicting this would happen. If we did not have a $4,000 life saving procedure, we would have lost Kepler. Even with that procedure, he is still at risk for further infection for a period of time.
> 
> We are heartbroken from the pain and suffering we caused our pet by electing to do this procedure.


I think Fel's story is a great example that any surgery, including a prophylactic gastropexy, comes with a risk of complications. While it doesn't make Fel feel any better to be in the minority, I think that the chances of needing a life saving procedure as a result of a prophylactic gastropexy is extremely rare. 

However in a dog that has already torsioned, the emergency pexy is much more expensive and comes with a real risk of complications if there is any necrosis of the stomach, shock, etc. and the incision is MASSIVE and healing time is long and rough. Been there.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

I read Fels story and it makes me sad, but once again, I think making this type of surgery the villain is wrong. ANY surgery carries the risk of infection.

As for this surgery, I have a toy so it has not been an issue with us, but had I a standard it would be a decision I did not take lightly. 

Yes there is the risk of infection, though with the right doctor and hospital I think it is relatively low and the risk of bloat which too is relatively low. 

Then I see all the trouble Fels has had, but then there is the recent loss of beloved Rhett to bloat and torsion at only 4 years old. 

I would hate to see people warned off the particular surgery for infection when this could happen with a spay or neuter as well. Again, I think this is a personal decision and one would have to weigh the pros and cons and research for themselves. 

For Fels there is regret because the decision almost took her dogs life, yet with others like Rhett, maybe it could have saved their life. No way to know.


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## Raven's Mom (Mar 18, 2014)

Raven is still recouperating from her spay/pexy last Friday. My vet highly recommended it and honestly I was looking at the financial implications. It was only $75.00 charge over and about the spay and we would never have the resources to pay for a $2-4,000 emergency procedure, so this was definitely the way to go. So far she has been fine, a little too fine, in that she is hard to keep calm, but overall doing great. She is not a fast eater and prefers to graze but is gassy and with a very sensitive stomach.


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## Lisa75 (Jul 16, 2014)

Vivian had gastropexy done with her spay at 2 1/2. Both were laparoscopic, she had virtually no recovery time. Ethan did not have gastropexy only because I didn't learn about it until he was 7 1/2. My new puppy will have it done. I've known too many standards who have bloated to risk not doing it.


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## SAS (Jun 16, 2013)

Has anyone whose dog had the pexy, subsequently had to have abdominal surgery for that dog and did it cause any complications? If so, what kind of pex was done? This is something that my vet mentioned.


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## frecklesdmk (Mar 27, 2013)

I found this list of the types of gastropexi. 

My Lexi had a belt loop

http://www.gdca.org/health/gastropexy.pdf


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## Nicolen (Nov 24, 2013)

Frecklesdmk, thank you so much for that link. I've been trying to find information on the different kinds of procedures as we make our decision.


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