# Help with top knot



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Banded first part ( I am not sure if I did this backwards which is done first ?)










Then I took comb and used tooth of comb to pull the band up to create bubble


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

video lol



but it looks kind of funny to me with all the hair around his face ? so I added second band ( i know I did this wrong)


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I'm not 100% familiar with how to tie the topknot, but I will say that I think you did a beautiful job tying Enzos!


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## SophieGirl (Jul 17, 2009)

You did it great! That is pretty much how to do it! His hair is long enough though to start banding all around his head, bc if your not carefull it will get dirty and break. Good job


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

How much hair do you put for the second band? I notice on some dogs they grab the hair on the side so you can see where you trim like this 



































are we supposed to part the hair where his ear starts ?


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Are you talking about for show? Or for home maintenance? 

If for show, I think you need to go a little farther back behind the eye and take up more hair. Then the bubble needs to be fuller and the back of the band needs to be pulled "down" tight towards the skull. Again, I'm not good at this and I'm on my third show coat... it is why I use a pro.

If you are talking about home maintenance, I would part the hair down the middle and band back both sides to at least the occiput. Are you using a knitting needle to part the hair? If not, go get one. It makes the job so much easier. Also, you should think about wrapping. I know it looks dorky, but it really does save the hair because you don't have to use as many bands on each section of hair. 

Finally.... are you wrapping those ears? Time to start. When does this boy go into pattern?


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

cbrand said:


> Are you talking about for show? Or for home maintenance?
> 
> If for show, I think you need to go a little farther back behind the eye and take up more hair. Then the bubble needs to be fuller and the back of the band needs to be pulled "down" tight towards the skull. Again, I'm not good at this and I'm on my third show coat... it is why I use a pro.
> 
> ...


I am talking about for show I need to practice how to do it my self, I don't have that kind of money right now to have some one groom him for every show lol My sister does his body and I guess I been dubbed " I do his top knot better than she can lol" 

I think The book said about half inch or one inch ( I will have to go look)behind the eye for adults I will try this tonight and take more pictures. I did it right at the eye. 

We wrap his ears some times not all of the time I will tell my sister to start wrapping his ears.

He goes into pattern in 2 months Oct to be exact. So we are trying to get his neck hair to grow more. and his top knot. I hope he looks ok by then. I was kind of worried about his pompons being too short on his hips ,but when the groomer trimmed him she told us that to let it grow and do not shape him down like how she did it. So we have not clipped him his hair, it has grown a lot since june.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Once in pattern, this boy is going to have to sit out and grow hair on his head and neck. It is just a fact of life. Banding, wrapping and that satin collar will help keep the ends of the hair from breaking.

The next time you go to a show, ask one of the pros to show you how to do the bubble. There really are a couple of tricks to it that the books just never tell you. You have to pull the bubble forward, pull up the center of the hair to tighten the sides, and then pull down the back of the band so that it gives the bubble more of a pompadour look. 

If you see Laurel again, she will help you when she is free. She is great about mentoring people.


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## mercymoon (Aug 29, 2008)

Just wanted to throw out there he looks great, Roxy! His top knot really is growing, such a striking red boy! Looks like your doing fine, keep practicing!


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## LovePoodles (Aug 11, 2009)

Looks lovely to me! Gorgeous boy! Practice makes perfect


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## SophieGirl (Jul 17, 2009)

I normally will do the first banding from each corner of the eyes across and then start the second one right where the ears start. But if you go farther it is fine, BUT JUST DONT GO PAST HIS STOP. They can dock you for that. it is only legal to do it before the stop. I will post pictures tonight.



roxy25 said:


> How much hair do you put for the second band? I notice on some dogs they grab the hair on the side so you can see where you trim like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SophieGirl said:


> I normally will do the first banding from each corner of the eyes across and then start the second one right where the ears start. But if you go farther it is fine, BUT JUST DONT GO PAST HIS STOP. They can dock you for that. it is only legal to do it before the stop. I will post pictures tonight.


I am not sure I am understanding what you mean don't go pass his stop? 

I don't think Enzo has hair at the stop ?


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

I think she meant occiput not stop.

He has some good hair! If I were you, I'd start wrapping it. You might want to wrap down his neck too. You haven't been trimming that hair have you? If so, STOP. I would be concentrating on his future continental and not worrying about his puppy trim right now.

Gosh! He is a great color!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

cbrand said:


> I think she meant occiput not stop.
> 
> He has some good hair! If I were you, I'd start wrapping it. You might want to wrap down his neck too. You haven't been trimming that hair have you? If so, STOP. I would be concentrating on his future continental and not worrying about his puppy trim right now.
> 
> Gosh! He is a great color!


We have yet to trim him since the groomer helped us in June. I just told my sister what you said about when he is in clip he has to sit out for a while so it can grow. 

Ironically i think we have no shows after he is in clip for at least 3 months, There is on that is at a UKC show but they don't care how your poodle is groomed really lol.


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## thestars (May 2, 2009)

I recommend these grooming Videos from "The Styling Academy" by Philip Langdon (a Master of the art). They show the skills and techniques on how you need to do they top knot and show cuts as well as others. I got Modules 2, 3 & 4.
Module 2 - The Lamb Trim plus Extra Features
Module 3 - Puppy Pants & Show Preparations (Maintenance and show bathing)
Module 4 - Continental & English Saddle Trims (I recommend this one for your top knot questions even how to spray it.)


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

cbrand said:


> I think she meant occiput not stop.
> 
> He has some good hair! If I were you, I'd start wrapping it. You might want to wrap down his neck too. You haven't been trimming that hair have you? If so, STOP. I would be concentrating on his future continental and not worrying about his puppy trim right now.
> 
> Gosh! He is a great color!


Where is the occiput located ?


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## stepanelle (Aug 3, 2009)

Hi the occiput is the little boney bump at the back of his head in the middle. That is how far I band my toys in coat.

I have found keeping it oiled up helps to grow coat and stops it knotting up.

What Phillip Langdon doesnt know about grooming a poodle is not worth knowing! he has won groomer of the year many times in the UK and has campaigned a fair few champions.

I wouldn't worry about a 2nd band yet he looks just right with one at the moment.

I have included a picture of Dom with one band in at around 18 months.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

stepanelle said:


> Hi the occiput is the little boney bump at the back of his head in the middle. That is how far I band my toys in coat.
> 
> I have found keeping it oiled up helps to grow coat and stops it knotting up.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info and pictures Dom is so beautiful !

I think I see what I have to do I will post more pictures tonight.


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## stepanelle (Aug 3, 2009)

Hi Roxy just wondering how the top knot is going!


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