# Question about trims in performance



## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I’ve known about that rule and because of it I’ve never tried to dye Babykins hair.

I have her currently in a Miami bikini. Last year I had her in a modified continental without the rosettes and with a trimmed topknot. Both not the traditional show clips but when people see her they know she’s a poodle. I had no problems earning titles in AKC. But you do bring up an interesting question with the bedlington trim. It’s an uncommon poodle trim. There are photos on line and I think I’ve seen instructions somewhere. OTOH it is confusing making your dog look similar to another breed.

I would send a letter to AKC and ask for clarification. It’s such a vaguely written rule and you are wise to be sure you won’t get penalized. 

I hope it’s allowed because I love seeing Luna in that clip.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

For the "Parade of Champions" part of a poodle specialty, they require the sporting trim. I don't know about other trims in shows. Interesting question. That rule seems vague to me. Color, though, that's clearly a no-no.


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

Thank you Skylar and Click. I do not like how vague the wording is here. It seems open to interpretation. It does seem absolutely ridiculous to me that a mixed breed can compete but I have to question whether or not my purebred gch can compete with the hairstyle of another purebred. I really hope there will be no issue. I will try to call akc and hope that someone can answer my question, and if they say that it is allowed then I will ask them to email me that in writing. I don’t want to have to worry about this any time I compete as I have lots of plans for different trims for Luna in the future.


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## scooterscout99 (Dec 3, 2015)

Related point, only one band is allowed to hold a topknot in place. I was warned about this in barn hunt. The judge said that she could have DQed us.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

scooterscout99 said:


> Related point, only one band is allowed to hold a topknot in place. I was warned about this in barn hunt. The judge said that she could have DQed us.


yes, I always thought this was a problem too. I understand no bows or hair ornaments but it seems to be a negative for poodles in conformation when you are protecting their hair.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Any clip you want is allowed for performance events, and yes only one band (plain) for TK and yes no dyes. I have either had my dogs in "sporting" type clips or Lily in an HCC or Miami. I know you are working on an unusual clip for Luna (Bedlington type). and while it would be allowable I don't know that I would show with a poodle in something so out of the norm for poodles since I try never to be conspicuous in any way other than our work in the ring. I don't want to distract or otherwise move the judge's attention from the work. Will confess that when I see oddball grooms on various breeds in matches my attention is pretty easily moved.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Noelle is in a boring regulation sporting clip right now. I'd love to do the Poodlington clip because it's so much fun, but I wouldn't want to confuse the judge. And like Catherine said, we want the judge to notice how the dog is doing, not be distracted by how the dog is looking.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

scooterscout99 said:


> Related point, only one band is allowed to hold a topknot in place. I was warned about this in barn hunt. The judge said that she could have DQed us.



Here is the rule for barn hunt: "A single band or small barrette may be used to tie a dog’s hair out of his/her eyes. More than one band is not allowed."


So if you are doing barn hunt with a poodle in show coat, you would have to use just one band in the topknot. Not really a problem - you just remove all the bands, participate, then put them back in. I am not sure why this is a barn hunt rule - seems a bit odd.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I have run Lily in agility with several bands with no problem, but they were plain not with bows. However Johanna should know since she's done it you can take out the extras take your run(s) and then put them back.


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

Thank you Scooterscout, Skylar, Lily, Click and Johanna. I appreciate all of the input. Wow, I never realized there were rules about the number of bands in the tk, etc. That almost punishes any poodles competing in conformation, which seems unfortunate to me, as a poodle competing in both conformation and performance is truly doing something amazing, and rare.

Lily, have you seen an actual rule or have judges told you that any clip is allowed? I can see how you would not want to distract the judge from the work that the dog is doing. If we were going to be serious about putting some major titles on Luna, I may just hold off on doing the creative grooming that I really love to play with. But as it is, we live in an area with extremely limited number of shows nearby (only 2 shows per year within 2.5 hours. All the rest of the shows are 4++ hours away.) This is also the main reason we chose to send Luna to a pro handler, as shows are just very limited nearby. So at the rate we are going, it will take many years to title in performance venues. Whereas I can practice creative grooming all the time and after 1.5 years of not being able to touch her hair, I really want to enjoy doing some fun things. I haven’t decided whether or not to enter the show at the end of March (one of our two “close” shows) but I don’t want to adjust a trim that I have been working on for many months just for one show weekend (without another show weekend coming up for many more months.)

In the very limited observation I have done of performance sports, I have seen some dirty, ugly dogs competing. Dogs that would distract me by their appearance far more than a clean poodle in a different trim.

I am just a bit frustrated with the vagueness of this rule. I have not yet competed so maybe I am far off from reality in my thinking. I will try to ask our match judge (beginning of March) for her opinion. But by the time the shows at the end of March roll around I was hoping that Luna’s trim would be looking pretty good and bedlington-like.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

scooterscout99 said:


> Related point, only one band is allowed to hold a topknot in place. I was warned about this in barn hunt. The judge said that she could have DQed us.


In CKC for obedience adn rally there is no issue with having bands and wraps as many as you want.
Never done CKC agility, but for NADAC agility the rule was no bands past the neck but it may be judge dependant cause when I went to ask the judge we did our only agiilty competition with she didn't care how many bands or wraps I had.
And sometimes just cause it's a 'rule' doesn't mean that they don't have exceptions.

I don't think the rule you circled has to do with hair cut, it's more to do with dying, or cosmetic surgeries (that don't fall under the 'normal' for the breed)


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Mysticrealm in AKC you would not be able to show with wraps, just very limited bands.


chinchillafuzzy I have not had that conversation per say with a judge on grooms, but I have asked about things like Seresto collars and been told one collar means one collar and therefore I opted against Seresto for the poodles.


I am not sure that I think the rule is so very vague, maybe hard to interpret since there are so many ways poodles can be clipped, but if you think on those terms then really puppy cut, continental, English saddle and sporting clips are the main options (although I've never had a judge take exception to a Miami). I will say I remember one of the years we did the performance parade at PCA one of the dogs had a sporting clip, but a rattail coming out of the back of the TK. Also Lily's clip is never quite a conventional sporting clip as she always has quite a long TK held up with a little girl hair skrunchy (which I have asked judges if they viewed that as acceptable, always yes on that).


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

For agility - here is the rule: "Section 11. Hair Tie Back Policy. Any dog whose hair over its eyes interferes with its vision, or whose hair on its ears interferes with the safe performance of the obstacles, may have the hair tied back with rubber bands."

So agility allows multiple rubber bands but barn hunt only one. Remember, barn hunt is not yet an AKC event - maybe if it becomes one the rules will be modified. I'm not sure why Barn Hunt is so restrictive.


I absolutely agree that if a poodle in show coat is competing in a performance event there should be reasonable allowance for protection of topknot and ears.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Johanna said:


> For agility - here is the rule: "Section 11. Hair Tie Back Policy. Any dog whose hair over its eyes interferes with its vision, or whose hair on its ears interferes with the safe performance of the obstacles, may have the hair tied back with rubber bands."
> 
> 
> So agility allows multiple rubber bands but barn hunt only one. Remember, barn hunt is not yet an AKC event - maybe if it becomes one the rules will be modified. I'm not sure why Barn Hunt is so restrictive.



I think that is a change from the past Johanna. One for the good though for sure.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

I think it's a recent change, too. AKC has been making huge changes to the rules for almost every type of event. I think they are trying to ensure participation.


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## mashaphan (Sep 4, 2014)

It would never have occurred to me that any clip would NOT be allowed in performance events! Maybe because I saw a Giant Schnauzer with a mohawk competing! Otter is in no real clip,closest to sporting,I suppose,since we don't go to a truly poodle groomer.(She keeps clipping his tail into retriever style,but I prefer bottle brush:ahhhhh:. Apparently I don't keep it brushed well:curl-lip

Martha


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## Raven's Mom (Mar 18, 2014)

Raven got her RA in a Miami clip so I know that one should be OK. I haven’t done anything else beside a lamb clip on Raven so not sure about others. She has a traditional rounded topknot and no bands.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

This is smart-alecy, but couldn't a snood count as a single band? LOL

(I know they have two elastic ends, but the entire device works as a single band.)


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