# puppy vaccination quarantine and housebreaking/outside training



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Oh dear, that is complicated. It is too bad the vets and the local conditions all weighed so heavily in favor of doing things that seem to have been counter intuitive to you (and certainly are to me). Given that this is water under the bridge I am sure you will do things that will make it all okay for you and your pup.

For the potty outside I would try taking a pee pad (maybe with one pee scent already on it outside to your little park. Carry her there so you will know she has to go when you get there and put it down for her to use. If that works then I would start cutting or folding pads smaller and smaller as she adjusts until she adjusts. While you are doing that teach her to potty on command.

For the nerves on busy streets I would just take her out and take plenty of treats. Mark good interactions heavily with lots of praise and treats. I would start by sitting on a bench with her and letting her be an observer. She will tell you when she is ready to walk on the busy sidewalk with you. For time with other dogs limit it to one dog you know to be of reliable temperament until you see her hesitance fade away. It will take some time but so long as you prevent really scary interactions she should gain confidence with experience.

I wish you great success.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Sorry it’s so complicated for you. About housebreaking, it’s always harder when you have to undo what was previously taught.

I got my puppy at 4 1/2 months old ahd she was pad trained. Now 6 weeks later, she’s just stsrting to whine to go outside.

Here’s what I would do :

- do a deep cleaning of floor where pipi pad was

- restrict access to room / spot where the pipi pad was

- leave no more pipi pads around

- no more walks to pee, just find a grass spot she likes and teach her to pee on command (just wait until she does it and say the words, then praise. After a few hundred times she’ll pee on command, or at least understand what it means)

- make sure you have lots of time when you take her to pee, until she can do it fast. Don’t, ever come back in the appartment if she hasn’t done it. If she really won’t do it, bring her back but watch her and as soon as she starts to circle, pick her up (she won’t pee on you) and take her back to the grassy spot. She will pee, say the command words and praise. Do this as long as you have to.

- if she happens to pee on walk, say the command while she is doing it and praise.

So first step is to get her to per on command on a grassy spot. Then, when she’s really good at it, if she hasn’t started to pee on her own during the walks, you can start giving her the command to pee. But you have to demande that she does it. So wait until she’s really ready for that.

It’s not natural for a dog to pee on cement on other non-absorbent material. Because it spreads and that means walking in pee, which they don’t like. That’s why untrained dogs pee on towels, beds, ect. And also why they do on pipi pads.

That’s why it will be a lot easier to start on grass. 



It takes patience but it can be done.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Well you just have a bit extra work but you will do it. Take her pee pad out with you to the area near your home where you wold like her to go. Just walk around that area and when she goes to her pad reward her just like you did with her indoors as a puppy. Eventually you can reduce the size of the pad, say each week make it a bit smaller as she learns to potty on command. In time you won't need it. If it is possible take yourself one of those3 folding chairs and just sit in a busy area with your dog leashed, read a paper or whatever to get her use to those everyday distractions. There is a command "sit on the dog" of course you don't sit on the dog you simply have her sit net to you or lie down and you basically are sitting on the leash. She learns to stay there and learns to accept the distractions. It takes time but she sounds very smart so.. Good luck.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Yikes on the recommendation to shelter her during the most critical time in a dog's life. The first 12 weeks are the most influential and referred to as the sensitive period. During this time, pups brains are like sponges and they have the least amount of fear. This is the time to expose them to the world because the same exposure after 16 weeks, when vaccinations are complete, will not have the same effect. 

After 16 weeks, you are no longer able to socialize a pup. It's all training after the window of socialization closes. Training requires more effort and has less effect. So now you must desensitize her to the things that scare her when, prior to 12 (or 16 weeks in some cases), the same exposure could have shaped her to not be afraid of those things at all. So sad to hear that this was needed, although I wonder if it really was necessary or if there was just a less progressive understanding of the importance of socialization over disease risk. I'm not sure what country this is. But if the parents were immunized against parvo and distemper, you probably had some leeway.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Yikes on the recommendation to shelter her during the most critical time in a dog's life. The first 12 weeks are the most influential and referred to as the sensitive period. During this time, pups brains are like sponges and they have the least amount of fear. This is the time to expose them to the world because the same exposure after 16 weeks, when vaccinations are complete, will not have the same effect.
> 
> After 16 weeks, you are no longer able to socialize a pup. It's all training after the window of socialization closes. Training requires more effort and has less effect. So now you must desensitize her to the things that scare her when, prior to 12 (or 16 weeks in some cases), the same exposure could have shaped her to not be afraid of those things at all. So sad to hear that this was needed, although I wonder if it really was necessary or if there was just a less progressive understanding of the importance of socialization over disease risk. I'm not sure what country this is. But if the parents were immunized against parvo and distemper, you probably had some leeway.


There is still a very good opportunity to reverse this fear. I got a 16 months old dog that had never set foot outside. He was soooo scared of the street, cars, people and anything that moved outside.

I made sure to walk him and play with him outside as much as I could. i taught him to be reliable off leash and we went to his favorite spot and I let him run and play. When you see him so happy outside today, you’d never believe how he as was a teenager. It took about 4-8 weeks to achieve that level of comfort inside. I have told his story on this forum. His name is Merlin.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Dechi said:


> There is still a very good opportunity to reverse this fear. I got a 16 months old dog that had never set foot outside. He was soooo scared of the street, cars, people and anything that moved outside.
> 
> I made sure to walk him and play with him outside as much as I could. i taught him to be reliable off leash and we went to his favorite spot and I let him run and play. When you see him so happy outside today, you’d never believe how he as was a teenager. It took about 4-8 weeks to achieve that level of comfort inside. I have told his story on this forum. His name is Merlin.


Yes...you can train a dog throughout their life, including desensitization and counterconditioning fears. It's just that you can shape them much more and with much less effort prior to the end of the window of socialization. And after the window, it requires exponentially more work to make progress. In some cases, socialization before the closing of the window can prevent certain fears from even developing. A lot will depend on the genetics of the dog.


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## hmmm (Nov 8, 2017)

Thank you all for your replies! 

I've already started applying some of the advice you guys have given me - more treats, no pee pad at all, and things are going much better! I even took her out a couple of times just to go potty, no walk, and she did! She still has an accident here or there, but I'm more confident things will get better.

I give her a treat now every time she freezes as we walk when she sees a stranger approaching (usually she does this for unknown men), and when dogs approach - and she's no longer barking at them. Instead, she started turning to me, looking for a treat! We even had a few short interactions with a couple canine friends, and one lengthy play session on our last outing last night . She did great, and was very happy playing with a new friend .

She knows (mostly) to pee on command on the pee pad, so I'm working on getting her to do it outside too, I have faith it will happen.

I'll definitively try the 'sit on a dog' method too - we did it (without knowing what it was, hehe) for cafes and restaurants, and she did well, so I'll repeat that outside too. 

I'm amazed at how just a few alterations to what I do have made such a huge difference in her behaviour so soon - thank you all again for helping me make that happen! 

*Quick question - could she be afraid of the wind? It just so happened that her first days of going out we had terrible windy days with persistent wind gusts of 35km/ph or more. It finally died down yesterday afternoon - could this also have made a difference?


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## hmmm (Nov 8, 2017)

@CharismaticMillie

Yes, I know all about how important the early socialization period is, that's why we did everything possible with her in and out of the home, just without putting her on the ground. She experienced lots of people around, busy streets, buses, trolleys, shopping centres, etc. 

It is simply the way it has to be done here. I'm currently in Belgrade, Serbia - and this is how every single dog is brought up here (we've spoken to countless owners, and they all commiserate with us about the quarantine period, which their dogs also had to go through). Luckily, all of these dogs seem to be perfectly well-adjusted and happy. There are simply way too many stray dogs around. The authorities have vaccinated most (all in cities) against rabies, many are sterilized too (they have special collars they wear), but it's not like they are regularly dewormed and given vaccinations against diseases that can kill a puppy, etc. And their poo (and that of irresponsible owners) unfortunately litters the city. It is one downside of a city that is pretty much incredible in most other ways!

Then there's the fact that it is not only dogs who can spread these diseases. Hearing three first hand accounts of people who lost their first puppies to distemper, and just how awful it was - the disease itself, the loss - we couldn't risk it.

@Dechi 

Thanks again for the advice and for your personal story - it has boosted my confidence that it can be done, and I do think my attitude and persistence are half the battle here!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think the wind certainly might have made matters worse - ask any teacher about its effect on small children! It sounds as if you are well on the way to helping her through the adjustment to being on the ground out of doors. I've found it can help to visualise the world from the dog's eye level - it must be quite scary to have people and dogs looming close when you have been used to looking at them from much higher up! But pairing the experience with good treats is an excellent way of making it enjoyable, along with a matter of fact jolliness that tells her all is well.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

@hmmm you’re welcome !

I should mention that Merlin has a very severe anxiety problem and is a fesr biter. His genetics is very poor, as far as temperament goes. His condition is barely relieved with medication. So if he could do it, so can your pup !

About the wind, yes, it can be very scary for a pup. So can heavy rain, and snowstorms. The trick is to take them outside in any weather. Never back down. Just go and they will get used to it. 

My puppy now goes in the high winds and in heavy rains. She hasn’t seen the snow yet but she will get used to it too, since she won’t have a choice. The first few times the weather wasn’t nice, she would go outside, crouch down in fear, not pee, come back inside and do it on the floor. Grrrr.

Hang in there, you’re doing great work !

And yes to positive attitude and persistance !


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## hmmm (Nov 8, 2017)

Thanks fjm and Dechi! Of course the weather would do it - I was muttering (that's putting it nicely) under my breath out there, so why wouldn't she?  

That said, she and I shouldn't complain - I read some of your posts earlier, Dechi, about housebreaking before winter ... and don't envy you the Canadian one that's coming! You got lucky this year with the Indian summer (I have family in Ontario, so I follow, hehehe), but what's coming ... ugh! 

I thought getting a puppy at the beginning of September here would be great, as I'd have more than two months for housebreaking in what Canadians would call summer weather ... so finding out about the quarantine only after picking up the puppy was a blow. Still, the forecast calls for a mild winter here, which is great, no psycho windchill factor to turn muttering into outright cursing


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I am glad you are seeing some payouts already from changing things up. It does sound like a very challenging place to raise a puppy, but it also sounds like you did a decent job given those oddities.

Remember to be very patient and consistent with your pup and don't get too worried if you feel like you take two steps forward, one back, three forward, three back etc. Overall you will move forward.

I think heavy wind is maybe not only scary but really irritating to a dog. The sound of it whistling past their ears, having blow hair into their eyes and mouths, small particles into eyes and mouths are all super annoying to us so those things must annoy them too.


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