# Poodle very "rough" with Terrier



## MaryLynn (Sep 8, 2012)

Gryphon absolutely adores my terrier (Bruce), and vice versa.

Gryphon obviously has a lot more energy then the little guy, and while he does insist on harassing Bruce even after Bruce is obviously "done" with playing I deem the rough housing and enthusiastic playing to be normal puppy behaviour. 

I also assume that it's normal to make a few mistakes, pull too hard, or chomp a bit too hard occasionally. 

I supervise them when they play, and for the most part it never escalates beyond good old goofing and respectful 'roughing.' 

What concerns me is that Gryphon has actually made Bruce bleed three times now, and all three times that he has done this Bruce has cried and Gryphon did NOT let go or relent-he just kept tearing into him. 

From my experiences this is not normal, usually they let go and back off if they've hurt the other one, even for a second, but he will just latch on while Bruce cries. Bruce is a tough little cookie, and he endures a lot, he only cries when skin is punctured by the looks of things, and he does not return the punishment.

So my question is: is this normal in your personal experience for a puppy to behave this way, and what would you do about this behaviour to limit injury?

Is he not learning because Bruce is too kind to return the 'bite'?

Should I be concerned? I am, honestly. Not worried about the playing, but worried that when he hurts him he doesn't back off.


----------



## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

how old was G when heleft the litter? 

It sounds to me like poodle needs some work on calming down- playing rough enough that there is blood- is a step beyond playing IMO- and is possibly a more dominant "GRRR im the boss" type thing- which can easily build out of play. 

At this time i would probably keep play times short- my poodle does this with my puppy- sometimes she just gets over the top and rolls my puppy (Puppy is 8 month Aussie BTW- but fairly 'soft" to the poodle) I keep their play times short. 

When G starts ramping up id call him off and give another toy to each dog (Kong filled with goodies) to distract and teach Play- get excited- CALM into a behavior. 

you could also lookinto some calming behavior work - good things for any dog to learn- such as Control Unleashed and Click to Calm


----------



## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

Great advice from NeVar. It also sounds like he may have never learned bite inhibition, or maybe he has but he's just getting over stimulated and he forgets.

I'd recommend the same thing that I do for overly rough mouthing with humans. 

Keep a toy handy at all times to redirect him onto it. When you see that his biting is getting too rough, redirect him onto the toy and praise him to teach him that he's doing the right thing by taking out his hard biting urges on the toy. In time, and with encouragement and reinforcement, he'll learn that a toy is the appropriate outlet for that kind of biting. Gentle biting play is appropriate for playmates. You'll need to have toys available for him to self-redirect onto when the biting urges take over. 

If they squabble over toys left out, this is the time to work on that, or keep them available for you to hand him every time.


----------



## MaryLynn (Sep 8, 2012)

neVar said:


> how old was G when heleft the litter?
> 
> It sounds to me like poodle needs some work on calming down- playing rough enough that there is blood- is a step beyond playing IMO- and is possibly a more dominant "GRRR im the boss" type thing- which can easily build out of play.
> 
> ...


I suspect that my puppy was separated before the breeder states that they were, I did not suspect this until after I had gotten him-he has other behaviours that lead me to think he did not get socialized by mom/litter mates very well. While I bought him under the impression he had the correct start, I am very unsure that this is the case. I suspect he was removed from the mother during weaning. All that aside, he is very calm all the time except when he plays with Bruce. 
I do my best to separate the play, or distract it once Gryphon starts putting the terrier in his mouth, but of course there are so many recommendations out there that some mouth is okay, some say it isn't so I appreciate your personal account. I just want to make sure that I am not hurting the situation, I guess I just want to know is if I separate them too much am I inhibiting the learning process he may not have gotten?

I am going to start working on "calm" with him, which I will of course need Bruce's help with, since he doesn't get excited very much otherwise.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I think I agree with neVar and msminnamouse that this is too much. I also agree that redirecting Gryphon when he gets over the top is probably the best strategy. Lily definitely thinks she can give Peeves behavior corrections. She has never drawn blood, but we don't like letting her think she can tell him what to do. Example, they are both called inside from the yard. She comes in right away and he often can be stubborn about it. I will stand at the door with him looking at me like no I really don't want to come in. If Lily is near the door when he finally does come in she will grab him by the scruff of the neck and drag him the rest of the way into the house. We deal with this through redirects. If she has come in before him, I put her on a sit or down stay away from the door. She has something useful to do and he crosses the threshold in peace.


----------

