# What did you guys think about Heather Dubrows "Doodle Puppies"



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I don't watch the show, but I'm confused. A doodle isn't a purebred!


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

My point !!! They are passing them off as purebred dogs , just adding to the doodle trend. I could scream ! I was excited to see which breed they would get and I just knew it would be a poodle , but they got these two. They did not say what breed they are, but to me it is plain to see that they are golden doodles. I think they should have gotten a rescue !!! But even if they decided not to, they should have shown how to get a purebred pup the right way, not just sit at home and have two doodles delivered. It made me see RED.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Certainly they could have at least rescued a mutt if that was what they had their hearts set on!


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Reality T.V. for you - everything is fake! They just needed some cute set decorations. It would have been better if she just happened to find them at a shelter. Maybe the director is setting up a confrontation with a fellow housewife who calls them "knockoffs".


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Fake, Real, Whatever, I just think they had the perfect platform to show a rescue pup... it makes me mad that they are showing mutts as purebreds, that their kids won't be allergic to. It just adds to the doodle trend and that is so wrong.


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## Ms.Bijou (Jun 17, 2014)

They look small for golden mixes. Also, not only did they want "purebred" pups but she said she wanted "pedigreed" pups. And I bet most here don't have "rescue" dogs. 3 of mine are rescues, one is not. They are all purebreds. Our very favorite dog is our pet store poodle! He's perfect in every way. 

I had rescue mutts for years. Sickest dogs I've ever owned. Seizures, cancer, allergies, digestive issues. Might be coincidental. 

I don't hold Heather Dubrow to higher standards than I do myself. But I agree she got the pups for a storyline!! Other than just being a huge negative, self-absorbed s###-disturber, she has no story line. Weird, hyperactive children do not a storyline make.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

To be clear, my rescue comment was with regard to her choosing mutts.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I think it is so unfair to suggest that most rescue dogs are sickly. All my dogs, but two , have been rescues and rehomes. I have never had a sickly dog. I have had many wonderful dogs. I do hold her to a higher standard, she has a platform, most of us, myself included, do not.


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## Ms.Bijou (Jun 17, 2014)

I didn't say anything about rescues being sickly. My mutts were sickly. It had nothing to do with them being rescued. If she was trying to find a purebred dog to get a hypoallergenic pup, but got a mutt instead, I think she made a mistake. If it's a mutt of two hypoallergenic dogs then not a problem. Though we all know people can be allergic to "hypoallergenic" dogs, just less likely to cause reaction.

I was just wondering if she will use the "hybrid vigor" excuse at some point. I think it's a myth myself. 

I can tell you that I COULD NOT find a rescue poodle during the year I tried to find a poodle. I couldn't turn around without being offered handfuls of rescue Chihuahuas tho. So maybe she couldn't find a rescue puppy of the breed she had in mind. I did eventually find an older poodle female at a local rescue but she got adopted by someone else the next day so I just gave up!! 

Like I said, my other 3 I have currently are rescues (albeit purebreds). But I think if I had 4 young children I would want a puppy, not an older rescue dog. I know so many people who got rescues and had small kids and it didn't work out. Not knocking the older dogs, as I already told you I got most of mine as rescue adults. The only one I can really trust around my grandkids is the one I got as a pup. I think it is because I was able to control any interactions he's had with kids and made sure they all went very well. I don't know the background of my others as it pertains to kids.

In other words, I wasn't trying to argue with you. But remember that this entire thread is about what others think about Heather Dubrow and the puppies she adopted. O r did you not really intend to hear others' opinions? I can't tell through written text.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I did NOT mean to snap at you... I just have strong feeling about this. I agree that with 4 children a pup could be a better match, but if she was going to get a mutt, I think she could have found one in rescue easily. If she wanted a purebred as she stated, she could have gotten one and talked about health testing, went to look at some puppies , talked to some breeders ect. I just hated the way it was done. I think they could have done so much better.


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## Ms.Bijou (Jun 17, 2014)

Yuck they ARE "goldendoodles"!! I think anyone who thinks their half-golden dog is "hypoallergenic" just because the other half is poodle is an idiot. 

Also, we really have no idea what they went through to get those pups. If it wasn't VERY interesting to the powers that be at Bravo, they are not going to show it. 

For example, that comment Terry made about her idea of donations to shelters or rescue being her way of alleviating guilt? The reason she reacted so oddly to him saying that was because it was HE who was so adamant about getting a "pedigreed" dog. That is what she said on Twitter. And that makes sense if you rewatch that discussion.

But still, I am of the opinion that anyone should be able to choose any dog, or dog breed, they want. I'm definitely not worried about being judged by others for buying my sweet poodle from a pet store. I don't give one single care what others think. Though I did try to acquire one in another way for a year before I just got sick of running around in circles!!


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## Ms.Bijou (Jun 17, 2014)

Carley's Mom said:


> I did mean to snap at you... I just have strong feeling about this.


You DID?! OK. That's OK ough I'm unsure why you would ask for others' opinions unless it was to prompt a debate about it?


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Ms.Bijou said:


> You DID?! OK. That's OK ough I'm unsure why you would ask for others' opinions unless it was to prompt a debate about it?


lol! I'm sure it was a typo. I met the sweetest little doodle the other day too; I don't care what kind of dogs people have, but I too wish people would use a celebrity profile to shed some light on the disadvantages of breeding to dogs that are not health tested. You know, if doodle owners did the health testing that good breeders do, I wouldn't care if they bred poodles to pit bulls, lol.


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## Ms.Bijou (Jun 17, 2014)

Carley's Mom said:


> I did mean to snap at you... I just have strong feeling about this. I agree that with 4 children a pup could be a better match, but if she was going to get a mutt, I think she could have found one in rescue easily. If she wanted a purebred as she stated, she could have gotten one and talked about health testing, went to look at some puppies , talked to some breeders ect. I just hated the way it was done. I think they could have done so much better.


I don't think Bravo would air it even if she did do that. I really don't.

And while I was typing, Sonja "ordered" a new puppy from what appears to be a store for dog supplies. I missed the conversation though so don't know if it's a pet store or a reputable breeder who owns a dog supply store.


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## Ms.Bijou (Jun 17, 2014)

Indiana said:


> lol! I'm sure it was a typo. I met the sweetest little doodle the other day too.


 Yikes. The only one I ever met was so annoying and PUSHY! And so was the last golden I knew. Haven't known any since since most of my friends have small dogs.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I DID NOT MEAN TO SNAP AT YOU ! lol I TYPE FASTER THAN I THINK, OR READ... Sorry !


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## Ms.Bijou (Jun 17, 2014)

Carley's Mom said:


> I DID NOT MEAN TO SNAP AT YOU ! lol I TYPE FASTER THAN I THINK, OR READ... Sorry !


 I knew that but could NOT resist messing with you!! :angel2:


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Ms.Bijou said:


> Yuck they ARE "goldendoodles"!! I think anyone who thinks their half-golden dog is "hypoallergenic" just because the other half is poodle is an idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> Totally! that is why I went with a purebred because I have terrible allergies and asthma and couldn't take that chance.


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## kcp1227 (Jan 25, 2013)

I do not watch this show, but I do think that it would be awesome if celebrities would use their influence and show people the right way to buy a dog. Surprisingly (and as much as I dislike her) Miley Cyrus did go about purchasing her sheltie in the right way. I'm actually quite impressed and hope her fans take note http://www.woofipedia.com/articles/why-i-sold-a-puppy-to-miley-cyrus



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## Ms.Bijou (Jun 17, 2014)

KCP, EVERYTHING about Miley Cyrus makes me gag, except for the way she cares for her pets! She really loves them, doesn't she? I will read your link in a minute.


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

They don't look like doodles to me they look like shih-poos or something. 

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## Ms.Bijou (Jun 17, 2014)

The bsite says they are goldendoodle. I think they look.way too small and just don't look anything like goldens either.


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

There was a post recently about a super expensive "micro mini doodle"

http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/111578-5000-micro-mini-doodle.html

Crazy.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Looks like a miniature golden doodle. There was one in my training class that looked just like that picture of the two puppies.


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Looks like a miniature golden doodle. There was one in my training class that looked just like that picture of the two puppies.


How does one end up with a "miniature" golden doodle? Please tell me they are not mating a miniature poodle to a golden? :afraid:


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

:ahhhhh:


LEUllman said:


> How does one end up with a "miniature" golden doodle? Please tell me they are not mating a miniature poodle to a golden? :afraid:


Who the heck knows! Wouldn't surprise me, though...


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## kcp1227 (Jan 25, 2013)

LEUllman said:


> How does one end up with a "miniature" golden doodle? Please tell me they are not mating a miniature poodle to a golden? :afraid:



When I looked up the place from the other thread about the $5000 micro mini doodles, it actually did look like they had bred a mini poo and a golden together. The dog looked like a golden in the face and hair type, but it was really long bodied and very short legged. Just awful looking. Why anyone would pay so much for an ugly dog is beyond me. 


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## Cdnjennga (Jul 30, 2009)

Miniature golden doodles are all the rage around here, I'm pretty sure they do just mate a male miniature poodle to a female golden retriever. They tend to be super cute puppies but often kind of odd looking adults.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I am willing to bet that H.D. will not keep those pups. She will come back that the kids are allergic to them after all... I can't stand her ! That comment about now is the time to get a dog while they are building and living in a " Rental" really got to me , we own two rental homes... 

Wait and see, two more doodles will soon be looking for a new home. And I hate to think about how many more pups, because someone watched the show and thought they too wanted one. It is just all so disappointing.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

A friend of mine brought over a thoughtful new puppy present for my August SPOO. It's not something that would ever have occurred to me to purchase - one of those "real feel heartbeat/heater" plush toys. Guess what "breed" it is? Golden Doodle !!! The posh pet boutique says they fly off the shelves. So Snuggle Puppies - Official Home of Snuggle Pet Products to leave a comment. Their models are brown mutt, GR and Lab. I called and suggested they re-name my model cream mutt. (734-697-3757)


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## jazzipoodle (Mar 30, 2010)

I thought it was weird that they were talking pedigreed puppies and got mixed breed pups instead. When that episode first aired I googled Heather Dubrow puppies and found a website that said it sold HB the puppies. Doodles for $5000! I looked at the website just now and it no longer mentions Heather Dubrow. I think it was silly to get expensive mutts that may not be hypoallergenic. I guess she doesn't know any better. I think it was pretty tacky and inconsiderate of her to say it is a good time to get puppies because she's in a rental.


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## ivy6 (Jul 1, 2014)

Well, I'm going to make myself very unpopular, but here goes.

I'm in Australia, where the labradoodle originated. I had a lot of contact with women who breed oodles assistance dogs while I was choosing a dog for myself, because, as a dog novice with health problems, I wanted a good dog that I could train to give some help around the house. 

There is a lot of difference between a proper, well-bred, labradoodle / groodle, and a mutt. Parents will have been selected for health and temperament, and reputable breeders will be many generations in, and, here, seem to have established a fairly solid "type" of temperament that can reliably be used as helping dogs. 

There's a lot of difference between a properly bred oodle - and remember, they were bred to be helper dogs - than the dogs back yard breeders have bred. A proper oodle isn't a random breeding, but a planned one, with temperament in mind.

My 2c. I would gladly take on a good labradoodle or groodle. Gladly. It's the same as having a well-bred poodle vs a backyard breeding poodle. A good poodle should have a good temperament. A backyard bred one mightn't.


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## poolann (Jan 31, 2013)

ivy6 said:


> Well, I'm going to make myself very unpopular, but here goes.
> 
> I'm in Australia, where the labradoodle originated. I had a lot of contact with women who breed oodles assistance dogs while I was choosing a dog for myself, because, as a dog novice with health problems, I wanted a good dog that I could train to give some help around the house.
> 
> ...


Ivy6 don't worry about being unpopular. I think you make some valid point in regards to the background of dogs (known & health tested vs byb.) That being said what was the justification for using mixes vs pure lab, golden or poodle? All can be well suited to being assistance dogs if they have the right temperament & training. Many organizations have their own breeding programs for assistance dogs that are purebred so they have knowledge of the background & health testing. I'm just curious, not judging.

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## ivy6 (Jul 1, 2014)

I think the original intention was to create a helper dog suitable for someone with allergies, and that's why they crossed the poodle with the lab.

As far as temperament goes, I think they're now trying to get the best of both breeds, while breeding out the less helpful temperaments. A good groodle or labradoodle, then, will have the intelligence of both breeds, but without the fearfulness you can see in some poodles, and the silly bounciness you can see in some labs & golden retrievers. 

In other words, you should have a friendly and outgoing dog (lab / retriver) with a lot of intelligence. 

I'm irritated by the trendiness of these dogs. They were created for a purpose, just like any other "breed", and should be bought with the purpose and temperament in mind, not because they're fashionable. It's appalling, the way these dogs are being bred for profit. I'm most horrified by cavoodles (King Charles cav x poodle), because we all know the health problems that cavs can have, and to breed them indiscriminately and then sell them for profit is cruel, I think.


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## Stephanie_Smith_1992 (Feb 18, 2014)

doodles are the only dog that raise my allergies really bad when grooming them. hair everywhere and makes my eyes red and itch and makes me sneeze, supposedly they hypo allergenic...i think not


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## ivy6 (Jul 1, 2014)

Aaaah, but you're in America. 

American oodles are not the same as Australian ones, or so I've read. 

Interesting, anyway, and a reminder to everyone not to believe the hype


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## ApricotsRock (Jan 10, 2014)

I'm still stuck on the $5000 price tag for a mutt. I had to read that twice.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I did not have a problem so much with the fact that she got a couple of doodles. I would have been smiling from ear to ear had she gotten them from a rescue. I just hated that they were presenting them as something they were not. I think she got them because they are trendy. I feel people in the public eye have a responsibility to do better than that.

I have a friend with 3 doodles, each came from the pound, all big loving , funny , cuddle bugs. She has to sweep up piles of hair everyday, but she loves those dogs more than life. And I love her for adopting dogs in need.


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## Bizzeemamanj (Apr 14, 2014)

I'm not overly educated in the "designer breed" craze that seems to be happening these days, but I did look into getting some sort of an "oodles" mix when looking to add a pup to our family. I did it for the reason most people do - I wanted a non-shedding, more "hypo" dog and I thought a broader "genetic pool" would limit potential future issues.

After doing all my research, I quickly discovered two things - mixes, no matter how stringent the breeding are mixing ALL the traits of both dogs, including all the genetic issues both breeds are known for. So there is no guarantee you'll get the non shedding hair of a poodle in any mix you buy. Especially not in a golden or lab mix. And secondly, these mixes are ridiculously expensive. That alone is a red flag for me. The more I looked, the more I realized the traits I really wanted could be found in a purebred Poodle.

From there, it was just a "simple" matter of finding the right breeder.  But perseverance prevailed and I found just the right dog for my family. I will say, I have yet to meet an oodle owner who doesn't love their doggie with all their heart, but who also doesn't complain about the fact that they are more like a golden/lab than a poodle in terms of shedding/allergies/temperament. They can be great dogs, but they are not Poodles.


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## Marcie (Aug 2, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I don't watch the show, but I'm confused. A doodle isn't a purebred!


This is sarcasm, right?


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## Marcie (Aug 2, 2011)

ivy6 said:


> I think the original intention was to create a helper dog suitable for someone with allergies, and that's why they crossed the poodle with the lab.
> 
> As far as temperament goes, I think they're now trying to get the best of both breeds, while breeding out the less helpful temperaments. A good groodle or labradoodle, then, will have the intelligence of both breeds, but without the fearfulness you can see in some poodles, and the silly bounciness you can see in some labs & golden retrievers.
> 
> ...


I guess I am confused because all the poodles (Standare, Mini and Toy) I have met are highly intelligent, sweet tempered, kind and on the most part healthy. Color me stupid but why would you mess with perfection?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Marcie said:


> This is sarcasm, right?


No? Why would that be sarcasm?


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## ivy6 (Jul 1, 2014)

I dunno, Marcie.

I will say that a simple cross between a lab and a poodle is NOT a labradoodle. 

For those of you on a mind to puzzle over the intricacies and reasons for crossing, backcrossing and all the rest of it, pages on this website are quite informative:

website link removed as promoting doodles - against the rules


In Aus there are only a very few breeders that seem to be well thought of in the oodle community, and the rest are more amateur hacks. I'd imagine the same is true in the US. 

I agree that five thousand dollars is steep :-/ but hey, if you're rich and know that you're getting a wonderful dog, why not. It'd be interesting to know who the breeder was (does anyone know?) and whether s/he is actually decent, or just hiding behind trendiness and a flashy website.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

The link in the above post was reported as advertising doodles. The Poodle Forum has a rule about actually promoting or advertising the sale of mix breed (poodle) dogs:

14. Poodleforum.com will not allow promotion of mixed breed fanciers/breeders. If you are cross breeding poodles you are more than welcome to join and discuss poodles with us but we will not tolerate anyone advertising their kennel or services in this line of business. There are hundreds of dogs who need a new home in our local shelters. A large number of the dogs in shelters are purebred, while the rest are cute mixed breeds! We advise anyone who is looking for a dog to always check out your local dog shelter before purchasing a dog.

Please do not link doodle sites on the Poodle Forum.

Thank you!

Barb Plum
Moderator


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## ivy6 (Jul 1, 2014)

Fair enough, but Barb, how am I supposed to answer a question about why the cross breeding is done, without providing a link to the answer?

Not trying to make trouble; just trying to answer the person's question :-(


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## ivy6 (Jul 1, 2014)

I'll try again. Barb, I hope this is ok.

Rationale for different types:
- F1 labradoodles (poodle cross lab) - likely to shed; but may not cause problems to people with allergies.
- Backcross labradoodles (F1 labradoodle cross poodle, ie 75% poodle) - very unlikely to shed. Have a very calm temperament, thanks to the poodle.
- Golden labradoodle (golden retriver x lab mother, and poodle father) - tend to a coat that people like (long, soft, low-shedding). Gentle and laid-back temperament.
- Goldendoodle - less outgoing than labradoodle, which some people like. Different coat type, as well - heavier, needs clipping, but is less likely to shed.

So, that's the rationale. As you can see, some of it's for appearance, some of it's for temperament, and some of it's also to put a bit more genetic diversity back into the dog blood lines.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Like said above, Why would you change a breed that is already perfect? The poodle has all the necessary attributes if a service or assistance animal and prove that regularly. And it's definitely not for health reasons because labs have their list of health issues as well. I just don't understand why adding a Lab (which personally is a breed I can't stand) to the the mix is seen as a positive. No matter how far back it is in lineage you will still get lab behaviors/characteristics coming through. I think you are fighting a loosing battle here. We are all pro poodle not pro Lab or Labradoodle or Goldendoodle. I personally like the term Poodle don't Doodle because no matter where the bloodline is from your are still getting a mixed breed dog. 


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I am a little late to the party, but I thought the Australian Labradoodle (the certified one) actually has is very rigid in its pedigree.......I found it very interesting on one of the breeders' sites in Australia. Anyway, as we all also know, the guy who actually created the cross said that he was sorry he did (I think). Most of the "doodles" here in the U.S., however, are really just a mix of poodle and another breed and they look like a mutt IMO. I agree with earlier posters that one should not "mess with perfection!"

A neighbor has one of the "Real McCoys" imported from Australia and I must say, this guy is beautiful, smart and has wonderful conformation. Of course, I don't think he comes close to a well bred poodle! 

Taken from the Australian Labradoodle Club of America site:

"WHAT IS AN ORIGINAL AUSTRALIAN LABRADOODLE?

The Australian Labradoodle is different from all other labradoodles. 

In the early days, the Australian Labradoodle was simply a cross between a Labrador Retriever and a Standard Poodle. Dogs from this cross typically were bred to each other over future generations, whereby the Australian dogs are also know as "Multi-generational" Labradoodles. 

Then, in the late 1980's, Tegan Park and Rutland Manor, the two founders of the Australian Labradoodle as we know it today, began carefully infusing several other breeds into early generations of their Lab/Poodle crosses, to improve temperament, coat, conformation, and size. The infused breeds include Irish Water Spaniel as well as the American and English Cocker Spaniel. The resulting labradoodles subsequently have been bred to each other, continuing the multi-generational tradition.

Today, Australian Labradoodles are wonderful, intelligent dogs with lush coats that are more reliably low to non-shedding and allergy friendly than other types of Labradoodles such as first generation Lab/Poodle crosses, or first generation crosses bred back to Poodles. Even when the other types of Labradoodles are bred on for generations, the result is not an Australian Labradoodle, as the attributes of the infused breeds were not included in their ancestry."


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## ivy6 (Jul 1, 2014)

It was explained in that page I posted, which the Moderator removed.

Me, I just don't see the point in breed snobbery. I'd rather have an animal with good health and temperament, than one that fits conformation and show standards and has a bunch of health and temperament problems. But that's me. Partly I'm just sticking up for a breed (labradoodle) that was created in my own country.


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## ivy6 (Jul 1, 2014)

What's PWD?

Yes, there is an extra dog breed in there. Can't remember what it is, though. But that's why I said that the Australian doodles were different to the American ones.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

PWD is Portugese Water Dog.


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## ivy6 (Jul 1, 2014)

Interesting! I didn't know that.

On a side note, one of the people on an Australian 'oodle forum works in a genetics lab, so tested her own oodle out of interest, and it turned out that her dog was a weird mix of sausage dog and who knows what else... and this dog came from a fairly good (though not top-line) breeder, not a back-yard breeder.

In such cases, yes, I think mutt is right... especially when the poor person paid top dollar for it. It'd be interesting to know how common such instances are.


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## ivy6 (Jul 1, 2014)

ps. She isn't bothered because it's a lovely dog and she loves it to pieces, but it bothers me - I wish breeders would just be honest and say that they are cross-breeding lovely-natured dogs that make great family pets, and not pretend that the animals are of any particular breed.


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## AluePoodles (Jun 25, 2013)

I do not consider the preservation and continued health of my breed "snobbery". Wanting to keep the Standard (and now Mini and Toy, apparently) health and conformation moving forward instead of being irresponsibly and and unethically thrown into a doodle breeders backyard is not snobbery. 

I care too much about the health and preservation of the Standard Poodle breed to condone doodle mixing, ever. Call me a purebred snob if you want, I don't care. I have a mutt, and I love her. But she is not a "designer breed", she offers nothing to further a gene pool, and her breeding did nothing to move forward to help eradicate health problems.

To each their own with this whole doodle thing, but do not call be a "breed snob" because I care about my breed.


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## ivy6 (Jul 1, 2014)

Sorry :-(


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

ivy6 said:


> It was explained in that page I posted, which the Moderator removed.
> 
> Me, I just don't see the point in breed snobbery. I'd rather have an animal with good health and temperament, than one that fits conformation and show standards and has a bunch of health and temperament problems. But that's me. Partly I'm just sticking up for a breed (labradoodle) that was created in my own country.


So are you saying that a poodle that fits conformation and show standards has more health and temperament problems then a labradoodle? And if so, where did you get your information other than from a labradoodle "breeder"?


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## ivy6 (Jul 1, 2014)

That BBC documentary, Pedigree Dogs Exposed. That scared me silly, especially about cavs.

I'm really not wanting to argue - I was just wanting to participate in chat, based on stuff I've read, rather than on experience (in other words, I'm fairly ignorant). Hey, I don't even *have* my poodle yet. By this time tomorrow, I may be completely besotted and not knowing why anybody would fiddle with the breed either .

One thing that interested me on that breeder's page that was edited out by Mod was that she started trying to intelligently interbreed because *back yard breeders* have done so much damage to the original breeds, resulting in a rise in health problems and aggression. (She's a vet; this was all discussed at a conference). It was labs and golden retrievers the people at the conference seemed particularly concerned about, so she tried to introduce some poodle into the mix, to see if it would fix the problem.

One thing that worries me is that you can't fix a problem caused by backyard breeders by doing expensive "responsible" breeding. People who buy from backyard breeders tend to pay low cost for dogs, and will baulk at paying high cost from a "proper" breeder. So... is the "fix" actually working, or just introducing more cross breeds into the mix?

Maybe vets might be better off advocating for more responsible pet ownership, more desexing, less backyard breeding, no sales of pets from pet shops, etc, rather than getting into the breeding game themselves.

What do you think?


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I know what you're saying Ivy. I have heard of an Australian breeder who has striven to fix the type...that is, breeding scientifically, correctly until there becomes homogeny in the breed, uniformity. It's how all breeds were developed. They're bred from various breeds, sometimes many, for example in the case of my "other" breed, the Doberman. They're not sure what all went into them exactly because the records were lost. But there is some information intact still. Anyhow they start out where the puppies all come out a little differently. But eventually, the way the genes are selected for etc, they become what's known as a fixed type and they all come out quite uniform and when that happens, clubs such as the AKC will declare them a breed. So not all Labradoodles are created equal. There are many, as we know, breeders who are simply trying to cash in on the trend and don't breed scientifically and don't strive to really create a "purebred" dog. But I have indeed read about (quite a while back) a breeder or possibly a few in Australia who are doing a very good job at creating a real, honest to goodness new breed. 

There is nothing wrong with this imo. As long as there is some purpose for the dog that another breed can't completely satisfy. And maybe there is a point to the more robust Labrador, what I have experienced with my Labs and others I've known...a calm disposition, (the old fashion Lab, the way they're suppose to be...not these hyper, out of control dogs I've been hearing about lately) and the Poodle with it's non shedding, hypoallergenic coat, perhaps the heightened intelligence. I don't know. I have mixed feelings about the need for another breed I guess. But who am I to say? 

I have known a few Labradoodles...not from an Australian breeder of distinction, but from here someplace and I liked them fine. The ones I met had nice temperaments, were cute, sturdy as all get out and curly. Of course, they won't all be like that at this point around here because I don't know that there are any breeders doing it quite right in this country. 

I guess my point is, that if a breeder or group of breeders are setting out to create a new breed....a real breed, where the type is fixed and they're doing everything correctly, health testing, temperament testing, know what they're looking at etc etc, then I see this as not any different from how they came up with all the breeds we have now, which are called a particular name and accepted into a club that can over-see that they stay uniform. (so the theory goes) Unless...there's no added purpose for the breed. But then, that's subjective.

eta: this post was in response to your earlier post...not the one you just wrote, which I missed while typing.


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## ivy6 (Jul 1, 2014)

Thanks so much, Poodlebeguiled. I'm glad you understand where I'm coming from, and that I'm not trying to argue.

Another oodle breeder - a vet, but not breeding therapy dogs - told me that she started cross-breeding because she was so concerned by the health problems etc she was starting to see in pedigree animals, and was trying to add some genetic diversity to the mix to help the dogs.

I still think it's sad that all this has come about because of bad breeding - either because of backyard jobs, or because of "pedigree" breeders who weren't properly interested in the health of their animals.

If all dogs could be responsibly bred, with their full welfare in mind, we wouldn't have a need for this sort of discussion :-(


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## AluePoodles (Jun 25, 2013)

ivy6 said:


> That BBC documentary, Pedigree Dogs Exposed.


I'm going to first start off by saying it is incredibly short sighted to take a stance on something based on a documentary, but especially when you do no other research beyond that. 

I think the show incredibly biased considering they didn't show any healthy examples of purebred dogs. They looked for the most extreme cases and left out the many healthy animals. I do think breeding a trait to the point that it harms the dog is not fair or moral in any way but not ALL purebreds, or even show dogs, are like that. It would have been nice if they showed breeders that are trying to improve health, also show some performance dogs.

However, I will not disagree that there are PLENTY of dog breeds that humans have smashed into the ground for selfish reasons. No one will EVER deny that. BUT, and this is a HUGE but, there are PLENTY of breeders who are working HARD to change those breeds around. People need to realize that change will not happen with one breeding- it will take GENERATIONS of breeding before you will see any change.

But to me it seems you are believing the "hybrid rigor" theory which has long since been disproved to be true. If that is not true, than I apologize.


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## ivy6 (Jul 1, 2014)

*smiles* I'm still learning, so am happy to hear opinions on all sides. It's an interesting subject.

My poodle breeder sources her parent dogs from all around Australia to avoid inbreeding as much as possible, and I think that's wonderful. 

I have to leave to pick up my own lovely little poodle now...


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