# Show clip question for 6-12 month group!!



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Here's a picture of a show puppy groom of my 8 month old boy done by a showgroomer and currently successful AKC breeder. This must be correct.  The only thing I see that appears different from your picture in the area above the tail. She shaved it up quite a lot! 








he has a chunk of hair to grow around his neck, but if I pull the hair forward it doesn't show.








Here he is a month later (9 months) and one more groom of shaping later:









He has a 'mane' up his back and it is shorter on the sides. I will go take a photo of his tail area right now and post it for you. Yours seems a bit long in comparison there. It is shaved onto his back!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I tried, but couldn't get a decent picture. I'll try again tomorrow if nobody else chimes in. His hair is quite closely cropped at the lower back area and gradually goes up in a wedge. 

I watched her do it. She spent a good amount of time trimming in between his front legs so that his chest width was clearly visible (I think you can almost make that out in the last picture). When just running around his cut looks odd, like he has a lump in his back where the mane was left, but one swoop of the hand in the opposite direction from the hair and it is a wedge. The mane starts right at the last rib and is blended into the shorter area around his rear. He is quite angular in the rear, not really a shelf. Maybe that is just a style? 

Up the front of the rear leg his hair is left longer at the top where it joins his loin and blended in. You have a little more demarcation there I think? 

On the thighs she scissored down a little bit making the area flatter and the lower legs longer. 

I found one showing his neck. She trimmed the extra hair from the sides of his neck and it is pretty short around the V.










I think you can see the tail area in this picture, too. You can see how he has a lump from the mane when he isn't fully brushed. All the more reason to fully brush him. 









Instead of a shelf in the rear, he has more of a squared off butt. I watched her scissor almost straight down for several inches. 

Your girls chest and shoulder area are a little fluffier, I think? It takes several trims to get it completely smooth and perfect. She is doing him once a month and I am bathing in between.

When she shaved his face the second time it was to the skin, I swear, but within 5 days is was a velvety black covering and every bone in his face showed. She said to shave close about 5-7 days before the show. 
I hope other people chime in!


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

Thank you!! Your pictures are helpful and I hope others share their insight too 


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I am wondering if you would get more response by posting this in the grooming thread? You could copy your first post over there. I can try to copy my input. I have some more pictures I could show you. Maybe one from the front and one from the rear? I think you have too much hair on her chest area, but wait until you are sure because you can ALWAYS take hair off, but not put it back on. 

I asked her about snipping off the sunburned area on Jazz' back and she did not want to trim but a pinch of hair off the tips. From the top of his head to the end of his ribs all along the top was not touched with scissors. Only his sides gradually blended down. He was smoothed close to his chest underneath to make it smooth. His neck was trimmed on either side and in the front. 

I will post a few more pics for you sometime today.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Since these were from a UKC show, he has no spray on him - ie" he isn't perfect and smooth so you can see the cut better. I thought it would give you a better idea since it's unsprayed. A couple of these are blurry, but they give you the overall shape. Also, since she didn't trim parts of him, you can see where it was left long because he was badly sunburned and they have a brown tint. Where ever she trimmed is black. I guess she'll tip those areas and slowly the brownish stuff will be gone over time (it is original puppy hair). Lots of black dogs here are sunburned - they use black on black by chris christenson shampoo, but in UKC you are disqualified for that if you aren't careful, so sunburned he is.  

I wish I had a rear shot for you.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

It's hard for me to tell on what to change simply because she isn't stacked right in either photo. Maybe if you could get some photos of her stacked (and take the photos from straight on, don't look down/up on her or take the photos at an angle) then we could give you more advice and even draw over her to give you an idea of some lines. From what I can see now, her rear isn't quite right, the angle is too steep along her pelvis and there is too much length on her butt/topline. Her tuck up may need to come forward and yes it looks like some could come off her chest. I am impressed on her scissor finish though, puppy coat is a pain to get smooth!


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## Ellyisme (Jul 17, 2012)

This book will tell and show you exactly how to do all show and pet trims step by step as well as how to spray and band.

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0876052650[/ame] 


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

I have that book and it really isn't that helpful. I need pictures off all angles.

But THANK YOU for All your pictures out west!! Very helpful

And I will try to get a picture of her correctly stacked. It's hard without someone to actually help me because if I stAck her and step away she steps right out of place. We start our handlers classes together this coming Thursday taught by Jane Anderson. So, I'm super excited because I think she will be able to hook me up with some good connections. My breeder is 3 hrs away so I feel a little alone right now.. Lol 
He will be at our first show and he has some people he wants to connect me with, but I want to get to know people before that. I am so afraid that we aren't going to be ready in April, and I already feel we are starting late because she will be 10 months old at that show.

I never intended to get into show, but I was encouraged by my breeder and a groomer I work with who supposedly show groomed poodles, but it almost seems like since I agreed to show Aria, he seems to retract a bit and now I'm wondering how much experience he really has with show poodles (he is a new groomer to our shop) and I have not been impressed with his hair cuts which really makes me hesitant to allow him to take any shears to my girl. 

I appreciate everyone's input 


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

hunny, I am kind of in the same boat as you. I have a nice dog, but am on my own more or less. It's really hard. The main thing with my guy is holding still for a stranger. I tried the UKC show because it is cheap and low stress. He did good one show, horrible one show and so-so one show. I hesitate to spend a bunch of money on AKC or on a handler until I feel he can handle it mentally. It's hard because he should be competitive in AKC, but not if he is unsure of himself!

I think hunny is the same age as Jazz. His birthday is in May. When is hers? If she is bold, friendly and outgoing with strangers then she will do well. They don't expect puppies to be perfect in the ring.  

I might recommend that you consider taking her to a show groomer and having her done absolutely correctly. If you are a groomer, you can follow the pattern and maintain it.


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

Hunny518,

Take your pup and have her groomed by a handler. Watch while they set it and have them talk you through what they are doing (i.e. building her shelf, setting a tuck up to shorten her, cutting in more neck) while they are setting her pattern.

Your finish work looks really good, as does your scissoring, but the pattern is an art. Different for every animal and designed to enhance the good attributes and play down the bad. 

Del Dahl in the Complete Poodle book has a couple of good chapters on the puppy pattern - probably the best I have read.

Poodles are a "handler's breed" for a reason! But that doesn't mean that we can't do a good job and be successful as Owner Handlers. Just recognize the learning curve and don't be ashamed/afraid to learn from those who are the best and who know.

It (having pattern put on your pup by a pro) will be WELL WORTH the $ you spend. You'll be able to keep that pattern grooming every couple of weeks and having the coat tweaked will give you more than just a leg up on the competition!

Best Wishes!

Tabatha
NOLA Standards


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

Thank you Tabatha,
I have connected with an amazing show groomer who is not too far from my home. I told her how I'm a professional groomer but how I'm am completely clueless and new in the show world.. Lol 

I watched for almost 2 hours at the dog show as they were prepping them and that helped me sooooo much. 

I have already tweaked Aria's cut a bit since then, and will get some pics up later this week. 

In a couple weeks I will take Aria to this groomer and she is going to walk me through the cut and tweak anything I still may be unsure of


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

I know it's not perfect but I've reshaped Aria a bit more, still afraid to touch anything in front, going to let the show groomer do that. But here is a picture.









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## Lene (Jan 18, 2013)

In my non-professional opinion she looks great!


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

Thank you lene


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

So I've gotten a bit braver and took some off the front. My confidence is getting better.

Opinions and constructive criticism is much appreciated!! 























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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

She looks beautiful! 

But, I am a wee bit worried about the person falling over the chair in the background of the first photo. Everybody ok?


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

Haha. Thank you  that is my son, and he is actually spinning on that chair and falling off I'm slow motion. Poor kid was finding Anything to keep him entertained.. Lol


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Ah, that looks much closer! I think she needs the top of her back made flat in the tail area, but let the handler do it the first time. Jazz really needs a trim. He is meeting his handler tomorrow for the first time. I am not sure if she will be doing his grooming or the show groomer will be. I am still bath, brush, blow, dremmel and shave only.  You are much braver than I!


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

Thank you Outwest!! I'm going to have the show groomer groom her before May. We were originally going to hve her groom her by now, but we decided to wait because we ended up not entering in the show this month? Instead, we are bringing her as a spectator. We have been having trouble with her behavior with other dogs and I want to see how she does around so many dogs before she is entered.

She has made a few strides this month though, I'm so proud of her for working hard and making improvements on her impulse control 


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

hunny518 
Great! Now I feel better. My daughter was bored while we were wainting for the plastic surgeon for a consult on my broken jaw. She sat in his stool and started spinning, she went flying off it as he opened the door to wlk in - the look on his face as she stumbled around was priceless. 

Note: It really hurts to laugh hysterically with a bdly broken jaw.


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

Lol!! That's great!! I hope your daughter didnt get hurt though. That sounds totally like something that would happen to my son too. One day he came running down the stairs and tripped and flew head first down the stairs. What made it so funny was, it was almost as if he was superman. His hands went straight out and it was like he went in slow motion. Even his scream was slow,low and exaggerated. He landed on his hands and knees and burst out laughing. My husband and I stood there in shock. I thank God he didnt get hurt., but we can't help but look back and laugh about it because it looked so funny. I myself have taken 2 falls down those stairs but both times I fell back and hit each stair as I went down. 


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

She was ok, but I'm guessing the poor doctor now assumes that falling down must run in the family since I fell and broke my jaw (in three places) lol We should probably be wrapped in bubble wrap.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

BorderKelpie said:


> hunny518
> Great! Now I feel better. My daughter was bored while we were wainting for the plastic surgeon for a consult on my broken jaw. She sat in his stool and started spinning, she went flying off it as he opened the door to wlk in - the look on his face as she stumbled around was priceless.
> 
> Note: It really hurts to laugh hysterically with a bdly broken jaw.


BorderKelpie! How in heavens did you break your jaw?????? OUCH! Are they going to wire you shut??? That is totally disastrous when you have to yell at kids LOL! But it's a great way to lose unwanted lbs!!!!! Hope you don't hurt too much....& heal quickly!


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

It was easy. I have a metabolic disorder and my blood pressure and blood sugar crash and then I do. I fell flat on my face breaking my jaw in three places - compund fracture in the front. I was wired for 8 weeks and have a metal plate in the front. Unfortunatly, I have a hard time maintaining weight, that was a disaster for me. 

Sad part is, looks like it didn't heal correctly, I may have to go back in for more surgery. There's just so far muscle relaxers and pain meds can go (especially when I'm afraid to take them). 

It's all good, though. A few more scars and broken bones to compare with buddies.  I have quite the collection now. lol The jaw thing is my masterpiece.


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

I've gotten some great advice over the weekend and it has really helped me adjust Aria's haircut. We are excited because I have entered her in her first show, May 5th


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## farleysd (Apr 18, 2011)

Fantastic Hunny518! When I first started so many people were helpful, keep in mind that grooming does vary from region to region of the country. It is good to get the help and advice from people in your region.

Enjoy the show. Showing poodles is magical.

Terry
Farleys D Standard
"One must first BUILD a house before painting it!"


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

She looks fabulous! So smooth.  Have a great time in May. It is okay to tell the judge that it is her first show.


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