# Color vs focus/intellect



## Turbomelvis (Oct 4, 2011)

When I rescued Jackson, I was advised that the reds and chocolates tend to be a bit more aloof/hyperactive than the black/white lines. Is there any basis to this or maybe just a personal observation on their part?


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I have lived with blacks, whites, blues, silvers and reds and do not feel colour has made a bit of difference. These dogs were all similar because of our expectations of them. My Mom, as a breeder of silvers, used to get comments about silvers being the nastiest and most inclined to bite. Well someone should of told her boy Thinker that, who welcomed every dog, in tact or altered, and loved having babies and toddlers climbing all over him.


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## Turbomelvis (Oct 4, 2011)

Thanks.. Im more inclined to think that sub-par breeding may have more inclination to it than color genes. Thoughts?


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

Turbomelvis said:


> Thanks.. Im more inclined to think that sub-par breeding may have more inclination to it than color genes. Thoughts?


i'm the proud mom of a brown girl and she is not aloof or hyper. poodles are very in-tuned to their owners and their surroundings. standards are usually more calm than other sized poodles. i can't imagine how color could effect a personality. i would have to agree that it has more to do with breeding - not just color based. it also has to do with the way the puppy was socialized by the breeder. so whether a spoo is hyper, aloof, fearful, protective, aggressive, etc depends on their experiences in their first 12 weeks of life as well as their heritage. again, not color.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Turbomelvis said:


> Thanks.. Im more inclined to think that sub-par breeding may have more inclination to it than color genes. Thoughts?


I would think that plays a role. But, I think a pup's beginning is massive in how they end up. Is the litter raised in a home, part of the family? Are they handled and cuddled constantly? Or are they in a kennel building where they see humans a couple of times a day when they are fed and watered? Learning to trust people and knowing what it feels like to be loved right from the start, is in my opinion, the most important way to have sound, stable pups who will go on to accomplish things and put the Poodle intelligence to be best use when these pups become adults.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> I have lived with blacks, whites, blues, silvers and reds and do not feel colour has made a bit of difference. These dogs were all similar because of our expectations of them. My Mom, as a breeder of silvers, used to get comments about silvers being the nastiest and most inclined to bite. Well someone should of told her boy Thinker that, who welcomed every dog, in tact or altered, and loved having babies and toddlers climbing all over him.


I don't see why color would be tied to personality either. Swizzle is silver and even as a puppy very rarely mouthed us. When he teeth were bothering him and he wanted to bite he would always bite something near us. Although I never had the pleasure of meeting Thinker from all accounts he set the gold standard for outstanding personality. I think the best indicator of personality of a dog is their close relatives and of course socialization.


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## Q313 (Nov 3, 2011)

I can't speak to poodles but many people in doberman world swear there are personality differences between reds/blacks. I've yet to decide.

Don't know if anyone saw it but there was a study done in Russia w/foxes, selecting for extremes in temperament either for most vicious and least aggressive, and separated for a breeding program study. It was found over time that the more tamed strains of fox, chosen for low levels of aggression, over decades began to develop different color patterns (parti) and starting to show signs of flopped ears.

It was a fascinating documentary, even landing a spot in Nat Geo magazine within the last year.

Anyway my point being I don't entirely discount color/personality traits. 
For instance I've yet to meet a pet b&w tuxedo cat that wasn't just a doll, and while i would have to live w/more dobermans than I have, 2 to date, one was black, our girl now red, the differences in personality do so far seem to fall in line w/the red/black stereotype. Our girl being a hilarious goof, overly friendly w/strangers; my boy was a much more serious classic personality.



Just sayin... 

eta: also the fox pups taken from aggressive mothers to be placed with docile fox still grew up to be aggressive.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Did not the aggresive foxes have the same changes in color as the docile foxes in that study?


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

CT Girl said:


> Did not the aggressive foxes have the same changes in color as the docile foxes in that study?


One of the shows that featured that study was 



 As I recall the tamer lot of foxes also showed changes in tail length. Look abt the ten minute mark of this clip.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

The sound is not working on my computer. I actually saw the show; I just can't remember if the aggressive foxes showed the same changes in coloration that the tamer foxes did.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

The color changes in the foxes were only in the docile ones. 

I do think there is some color/personality tendencies, but not enough to make a firm statement. I, also, have found black and white cats to be the sweetest. I did work for a veterinarian when I was young and the vet believed there were color differences in the personalities of cats. I don't know if it holds as much for dogs. Someone really should do a scientific study on this as it comes up again and again. All we need is a animal behavior scientist who loves poodles.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I saw the show and only the tame foxes changed in looks. I have heard that the blue and black poodles are the sweetest ect. This comes from a groomer she truely believes that color matters in personality... I guess since Carley is blue, I will agree... just kidding.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

It is hard to imagine a poodle sweeter than Swizzle although looking at pictures on the forum it seems that every color is sweeter than the next. It is possible that hair color is linked to seemingly unrelated traits. I am a redhead. When I had to have an operation the anesthesiologist told me not to worry he was aware redhead felt more pain than other people. I thought he was joking and he said no there was just a big study. For years anesthesiologists have noticed that sometimes redheads woke up during an operation and seemed to need more pain medicine so they did a study. We have more pain receptors. Who would think that such a thing could be related to hair color?


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## Maddysmama (Apr 14, 2010)

*adopted browns beginnings in life*

I only have the comparison of the two big browns that we adopted from a NC large breeder for free at the age of 7 month and our two red service spoos in training that we got at 9 and 11 weeks.

Our brown boys are still skittish at times, not always wanting to come in, as if before they were always jut locked away, if someone drops something or makes another loud noise, the bolt to the other side of the room and bark. I don't see any change in that behavior.

The reds are stable well rounded, happy, noises don't bother them unless it i legitamitely something outside at night etc. I would say much easier to train. I believe it is from their beginning at the breeder and their beginning here...


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

My brown is the most intelligent, athletic, calm and stable of my three poodles. She is a very adaptable, easy going girl. She is bull-headed and food obsessed.

My white is extremely calm and quite too, even when he was just 6 months old (when I got him) he would just chill out in the house, happy as a clam. His biggest quirk is that he is a sensitive boy and does not like to be redirected. He will pout if he gets in trouble. He is smart, but not as quick to learn as Millie.

Henry, our black, is a sweet, sweet goober, but his exuberance is of an extraordinary level.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

To weigh in on this thread, I have two blues, full sisters, and one is the MOST outgoing dog I've ever met...she loves all dogs and people alike. She is also hyper and mischievous. People ask me how I tell the two apart and I jokingly say, I just follow the path of destruction and at the end of it, there's Maddy! ha, ha. Her sister Indy is a bigger boned dog, a real beauty, and she's far more aloof to dogs she doesn't know. She does love all people so far though. But I would speculate that when people isolate gene pools (i.e. to breed reds to reds and chocolates to chocolates, that sort of thing), temperament might also be isolated and any unique tendencies would be reinforced by breeding only within that smaller gene pool.


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## Siskojan (Mar 13, 2011)

Sisko is silver with blue stripes,and I believe it's just coincidence that he is the mouthiest son of a gun and we constantly have to distract him with toys and commands like "No biting". To be fair, he really really likes to get a hold of your hand and taste it gently as a sign of love, but if he's excited and tries it, his big poodle teeth can hurt. He likes to nibble at and tug on the cuff of pants legs or sleeves. He is just like a toddler who hasn't yet got the words angling for your attention. I spent his puppyhood screeching with pain faked and real with no discernible change in him, I tried gagging him with a finger down his throat a la Monks of New Skeet - no change. He came home to us at only 7.5 weeks, just ahead of a major snowstorm that would have prevented us getting him for several weeks and I think he would have benefitted from being bitten back by his litter mates for another week or so. At three years old he's finally learning to go pick up his blankie to chomp on when he gets the urge. We had a lovely border collie who as a very young pup taught herself to pick up a twig or a leaf or anything to hold in her mouth so that she wouldn't nip the kid's heels when they were playing in the yard. Maybe BC's are smarter after all?


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Bonnie is mouthy some, too. It's how she says hello to us. It is very gentle and so far she hasn't done it with others. She stands up on her hind legs and balances one foot on an arm, ever so gently, and mouths us. I did the yipping thing when she was younger, but all it did was make her mouth softer, it didn't stop it. We have trained her not to jump on us, so this is her solution to the problem. 

I think there are a number of mouthy standards. One at the dog park runs up and mouths everyone very gently to say hello and then jumps around everyone. He is really friendly. He's black, so it isn't color related.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Wow, Sisko is really pretty. I wonder how light my blues will get...it's kind of like a surprise package isn't it?


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## Siskojan (Mar 13, 2011)

Thank you, he is pretty when he's clean and freshly groomed like in his signature picture! I'd say he is more silver overall, that is his background colour, and all his stripes are blue. He is registered in CKC as a blue brindle.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

Interesting thread.  I've had apricot, white, sable, silver and black poodles and while they were all very different, I'm not sure I can attribute these differences to their coat colors. 

Brandy (apricot) and Lord Byron (white) joined me in their golden years, and both were pretty much set in their ways. Brandy lived with a decent family his entire life while Lord Byron ended up on the street as a stray. Brandy was _tough_--Chesty Puller tough--while Byron was the sweetest, most sensitive soul I ever met. 

Pippin is a sable and is very, very high energy and somewhat anxious. He's smart and eager to please, but is easily frustrated. Short and sweet training sessions work best for him. 

Merlin (silver) is not mean or "bitey" at all. He's 100% lover and not fighter. He's a very sweet and intelligent boy, who like Pippin, has trouble focusing, but when he does, nothing can stop him.

Alex, my black and my once in a lifetime dog, is what I'd call a perfect dog with an ideal temperament. He's calm/laid back but can be energetic, he's a love bug, loyal and the most intelligent dog I've ever met. He taught himself most of the basic commands: Sit, stay, down, shake, high five, and up, along with "get your toy" and related. He taught himself to walk on a leash. He has incredible focus and can learn anything after 5 repetitions. (I'm not kidding.) I've never had a dog who can focus like him. There's no frustration or anxiety in Alex, and he has taught me more than I'll ever teach him. 

Blacks are my favorite in both look and temperament (of the poodles I've lived with). I love them all, don't get me wrong, and I appreciate their differences. But I think everyone has that one special dog they just click with who will always hold a _very _ special place in your heart and mine just happens to be a black poodle. (Of course mine all hold _special _places in my heart.)


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

i don't know the answer to the question, i just have to say i'm so jealous (teasing, in a way) that so many of you are already having the mps experience....sigh....i would love 3, but just having a second right now would be a dream come true. however, i'm a mature adult (ok, maybe sometimes) so i know i have to wait until the time is right...in the meantime, i live vicariously through all of you!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Jessie's Mom said:


> i don't know the answer to the question, i just have to say i'm so jealous (teasing, in a way) that so many of you are already having the mps experience....sigh....i would love 3, but just having a second right now would be a dream come true. however, i'm a mature adult (ok, maybe sometimes) so i know i have to wait until the time is right...in the meantime, i live vicariously through all of you!


It will happen! Hang in there.


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## Trillium (Sep 1, 2009)

I really don't buy into the colour of the dog influencing the temperament of the dog. My first spoo Rusty was an apricot and he a very energetic boy. In many ways he remained a pup till he died. He was always ready to play!! He loved people especially kids who he assumed all belonged to him. He was a little suspicious of any strange male approaching any kids in my care. 

Sport was my next spoo another apricot and was incredibly laid back!! So much so that when we had neighbours over they'd at him when he got up to go somewhere and say they didn't think he could move. He was an amazing gentleman of a dog and loved everyone. He was the easiest dog we ever had. You almost never needed to correct him. 

Betty Jo and Jenny are litter sisters and both red. Jenny is sweet and quiet. She loves to climb up on you lap and snuggle. She is a sniffer and rarely licks. She loves everyone and has loved almost every dog she has ever met. She is so gentle she will let Cayenne our 4 month old puppy take food out of her month. She is also in many ways my most independent dog. While she checks up on what I'm doing from time to time she isn't always at my heels. 

Betty Jo is my life of the party and always has been. If any two of my dogs are playing you can almost always be sure that Betty Jo is one of them!! She a bit barky at times and very playful. She is also my shadow. She is very self confident. She assumes that everyone that comes has come to see her and loves them all. We warn everyone that her tongue is hung in the middle and licks at both ends!!

Cayenne is our 4 month old and is a ball of energy and such a puppy. She is a loving, licking, playing, ball of fire that keeps the party going. My other two spoos are sure we kept her for them and we laugh ourselves silly over her. 

All this said if there is such differences in the personalities of my spoos that were so similar in looks (Rusty and Sport looked enough alike that my parents and other family members used to call Sport Rusty and people constantly ask me how I can tell Betty Jo and Jenny apart) and in colour (2 apricots, 3 reds) that I just can't believe that colour influences what what temperament they have. I think it has much more to do with many other factors. Breeding is part of it as well as early influences etc.


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