# auto immune disorder, after effects



## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

I don't know if this is even related. But after Misha got her rabies, about 2 months later, she started getting lesions on her snout and ear pinna. The edges of the pinna thickened and got crusty and itched horribly. 

She was diagnosed with Rabies induced vasculitis and was put on Pentoxifylene(sp?) and it mostly cleared up. Because Misha also has MVD I couldn't put her on prednisone but the doc said that would have helped. When I took her off the med, it flared back up. I kept her off the meds and it seems to be getting better.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

you may want to pm n2mischief. i believe her tpoo had a reaction to the rabies vaccine. i may have misremembered what she said some of the reactions were, so i won't mention that. but i do know mischief is concerned about the rabies vaccine.

lol. mischief, our posts crossed. glad you chimed in.


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## Jennifer J (Apr 22, 2010)

Thanks for the replies. Her illness was quite severe. Her white blood cell count was out the roof, her platelet count dropped to 27 (she bled profusely out her nose a number of times), her liver numbers went sky high, and so many other things that I can't even type it all out. She was at the vet's office during the day for 3 days, and the last day I dropped her off I cried all the way home because I didn't think she would be alive to pick her up. We then kept her home and gave her IV fluids for 3 days over the weekend. 

As a result of all this, she is not ever going to be vaccinated for anything again, it would be too much for her immune system to handle and could quite possibly kill her. I'm seriously considering getting rabies titers for my other 2 spoos. We seriously over-vaccinate our dogs IMHO. So, no more therapy dog work, no obedience work, just happy puppies at the house for me.

I am in the medical field, I understand what happened to her and why. I'm really just looking at any supplements, shampoos, treatments, that have worked for any other poodle.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

My Cream spoo came to me at age 2 . Her coat was thin and would pull out like cotton when I brushed her. She also had allergies and had been given allergy shots every few months ... I have worked on her health for 2 years and her coat is very different, curly and thick like a poodle coat should be. Right now she is itch free, but that had come and gone before, so fingers crossed. ( I have never given her an allergy shot.) I give her fish oil everyday along with dinovite. I feed a kangaroo kibble, that has proven to be better for her as well. I have also decided NO MORE SHOT FOR EITHER OF MY DOGS EVER. I don't use heart worm prevention and only use flea prevention when I have too.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Any systemic infection will of necessity produce impaired immune response. Vaccines will have the same effect. The reduction in immune response is normally for less than 2 weeks. Hydrophobic vaccines are very aggressive in their effect and should be given alone and with a post vaccination observation period of 24 hrs. The legally proscribed dosage in some states is high and can be damaging to small dogs. Auto immune disorders can be caused by the immune system overload that can occur. Most other vaccines are trouble free and their role in the prevention of disease and its spread is positive and well documented.

It is thought that some dogs are prone to this and would eventually develop the problem in any case. The rabies shot being the cause of initiation.

Thank "Dog" rabies is unknown in Australia.

Eric


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## Jennifer J (Apr 22, 2010)

I really don't want this to become a debate about vaccines and how they work. I have been a PHARMACIST for over 30 years and am well versed in how the vaccines work and affect the immune system. I should have left the part regarding vaccines out of my first post, I in no way am seeking advice, information, or opinions about immune system disorders and vaccines. 

Ellie had a catastrophic failure of her immune system and almost died. That is a fact. She now had a new problem with flaky skin and what looks like dandruff and it looks like crap on her since she is black.

All I wanted was some help with dry, flaky skin that is a very new problem with her that she never had before her illness. Any advice on that issue will be greatly appreciated.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I feel like I'm missing something possibly, but as I read through the replies I didn't see anyone trying to give you vaccine advice or debate with you. My interpretation was that some members were empatheticaly sharing their similar vaccine reaction experiences.


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## Jennifer J (Apr 22, 2010)

not being snarky, just wanted advice regarding dry flaky skin. 

I'm going to request the post to be removed.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

The thread will not be removed or closed. There is a lot of good information here for the entire membership. When a thread is initiated, it is obviously one person's idea/thought/question/celebration, etc., but once the comments start to flow, it becomes of interest to the entire community. I also did not see any debate or argument regarding vaccinations. And even if there were, sometimes debate is a good thing. If this thread is closed or removed, the one piece of information the OP was looking for will never be able to be shared. By keeping it open to discussion, more may be learned.

ps... I did see some ideas regarding skin issues in this thread as well - diet, supplements, medications, etc. Keep the ideas coming please.

Barb


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

With Killa's immune issues she gets a few areas of flaky skin as well as hair loss. I haven't found that anything really helps. This flaking is different than say a dandruff type flaking. It sticks to the hair and won't come off no matter what. I have tried combing it out with a flea comb, no luck. The bigger flakes do come off but there are a lot of smaller flakes. I've also tried blasting them off with the velocity dryer. Again it works for some of it but not the majority. Even conditioning the skin and moisturizing doesn't seem to help. I think it is specifically issues within the body and only clearing up those issues will make it go away. Even shaving the areas bald with a #40 surgical blade didn't help. The skin seems to be thickened and just flakes. Wish I could help you more. My next option with Killa is finding a homeopathic Vet and doing a full detox and getting her put in some Chinese herbal treatments, instead of pumping all sorts of drugs and chemicals into her. Her immune system started with attacking her skin and has now moved on to attacking her muscles and making them atrophy (specifically in her face). She doesn't let any of it get in her way though. She acts like a perfect happy and spunky little girl.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I know of a drug called Apoquel which is hard to get. The company can't keep up with the demand and it's very expensive. But it is a _miracle_ drug for about 80% of skin allergy cases. (And I'm not even a pharmacist!):act-up:


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> With Killa's immune issues she gets a few areas of flaky skin as well as hair loss. I haven't found that anything really helps. This flaking is different than say a dandruff type flaking. It sticks to the hair and won't come off no matter what. I have tried combing it out with a flea comb, no luck. The bigger flakes do come off but there are a lot of smaller flakes. I've also tried blasting them off with the velocity dryer. Again it works for some of it but not the majority. Even conditioning the skin and moisturizing doesn't seem to help. I think it is specifically issues within the body and only clearing up those issues will make it go away. Even shaving the areas bald with a #40 surgical blade didn't help. The skin seems to be thickened and just flakes. Wish I could help you more. My next option with Killa is finding a homeopathic Vet and doing a full detox and getting her put in some Chinese herbal treatments, instead of pumping all sorts of drugs and chemicals into her. Her immune system started with attacking her skin and has now moved on to attacking her muscles and making them atrophy (specifically in her face). She doesn't let any of it get in her way though. She acts like a perfect happy and spunky little girl.



Did you try nizoral shampoo? Petplan will pay for it!


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## Jennifer J (Apr 22, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestions folks. 

Ellie's problem seems to be a lot like the one that poodlecrazy has with Killa. It's mostly in the area where the texture of her hair changed, and I couldn't even blast them off with the HV dryer this weekend either. It doesn't seem to be regular dandruff but it could be. I might end up trying the Nizoral shampoo in that area, but it's going to take a lot since she is a standard.

I'm also going to try adding in some dietary fish oil (instead of a supplement) to see if that helps. She's eating so much right now from the prednisone that she will enjoy a few more treats


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I know of a drug called Apoquel which is hard to get. The company can't keep up with the demand and it's very expensive. But it is a _miracle_ drug for about 80% of skin allergy cases. (And I'm not even a pharmacist!):act-up:



Yes! I can't wait till its back out! They say it should be by May or June. And yes it is extremely expensive but it is worth it. and all the Meds and diagnostics to keep up with them add up to be even more expensive.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Did you try nizoral shampoo? Petplan will pay for it!



No I haven't yet, I still need to get some. I've just been so busy lately, she hasn't even had a bath for a few weeks!


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Jennifer J said:


> Thanks for the suggestions folks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would definitely get her on the fish oil. I feed mine dried fish skins (probably should more often though) and that seems to help. I also had them on a probiotic and missing link and they seemed to do good with those. I've never seen them eat better than when on that probiotic!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> I would definitely get her on the fish oil. I feed mine dried fish skins (probably should more often though) and that seems to help. I also had them on a probiotic and missing link and they seemed to do good with those. I've never seen them eat better than when on that probiotic!



What kind of probiotic do you use? I have been giving Tangee Prostora, and it is working very well, but it is $35 for 15 pills. Maybe Petplan would pay for it, not sure, I have not reached the deductible yet ,but I would rather find something that isn't made by IAMS anyhow.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

I use some I get from the vet as well, it's called Synacore. They were put on it because even though they were on a high protein food their blood work showed low protein levels. So we thought it might be the fact they weren't absorbing the food properly. What ever the reason the Synacore worked great and even got my pickiest eater to eat what ever it was on. Oh and it is a powder that is sprinkled on the food and is made by VanBeek Pets.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> I use some I get from the vet as well, it's called Synacore. They were put on it because even though they were on a high protein food their blood work showed low protein levels. So we thought it might be the fact they weren't absorbing the food properly. What ever the reason the Synacore worked great and even got my pickiest eater to eat what ever it was on. Oh and it is a powder that is sprinkled on the food and is made by VanBeek Pets.



Oh, that wouldn't work for Tangee as I have to hand feed her (mostly dry) food since she had her teeth removed. The Prostora is one of those big flavored tablets that she absolutely loves and scarfs down. So I guess that we will have to stick with that and ask Petplan to pay for it


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Does she take any type of wet food? If she does you can just mix it with that. The nice thing about the Synacore is that the probiotics are microencapsulated. 2 reasons why I like this is that it is more palatable and they can make their way through the stomach and be released in the small intestine where the probiotics are actually needed and used. Many probiotics are burnt up and lost in the acidity of the stomach acid and never actually make it to the intestinal tract where they do all the good stuff they are meant to do.


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## sunshine (Jan 31, 2015)

I'm not sure exactly what the side effects are with prednisone in dogs but it might have something to do with the coat and skin changes. If you just want relief from itching there are some really good anti itch shampoos out there. It may not fix the cause but it might be worth trying just to sooth her skin. 
 
Look for something hypoallergenic, maybe oatmeal or something similar.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> Does she take any type of wet food? If she does you can just mix it with that. The nice thing about the Synacore is that the probiotics are microencapsulated. 2 reasons why I like this is that it is more palatable and they can make their way through the stomach and be released in the small intestine where the probiotics are actually needed and used. Many probiotics are burnt up and lost in the acidity of the stomach acid and never actually make it to the intestinal tract where they do all the good stuff they are meant to do.



Just hamburger, chicken or steak, but like I said I have to hand feed her, she might drop each piece 3-4 times - a lot of it would be lost with that. Anyhow, she does great with the Prostora - I was just hoping for something cheaper so I wouldn't have to bother with Petplan claims, but I am sure that they will cover it once we meet the $200 deductible since it was the vet who first gave it to her. Or, I have to ask the Vet if she thinks the GI problem might be a side effect of one of her heart meds - if so, it would be covered under that deductible that we already met


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## Feelingdoc (Feb 18, 2014)

My 3 year old standard has had several episodes with auto immune (and like you nearly fatal ones). She had been on pred. now she is on another immune suppressant. Her skin doesn't flake but the texture change and hair loss is significant. I'm not sure she will ever be totally off immune suppressants because she relapses. I think it is a sacrifice I have to pay for keeping her alive. She could be a bald ugly mess for all I care...I love her.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Dinovite has probiotics and digestive aids . I think it has really helped Carley's coat from being dry. I got it for Stella's allergies and then decided to give it to both my dogs. Carley has a thyroid condition that was making her coat dry. You guys should check it out. I am really liking it and both my dogs like it on their food.


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

Sorry, late to this thread as usual...

Our Pushkin has an on-going immune problem and is on prednisolone and azathioprine.

He also lost a lot of hair and had a dry flaky skin. He also gets scurfy patches, notably on the ends of his ear flaps and on the end of his tail - again, like Killa, these are almost greasy flakes which are a bugger to get off.

As his pred has reduced we have noticed his hair is re-growing but is of a different feel to the rest of it - slightly coarse and dark. It still isn't "thick" but as he was diagnosed with a platelet count of 5 just after we re-homed him we're not sure whether his hair is thick even when he's "normal"! 

I gave him Extra Virgin Olive Oil in his food (about 1/4 teaspoonful) for months but didn't notice any improvement particularly. I'd think fish oil would be better.

I also use a very gentle shampoo on him, for sensitive skin with aloe vera which does seem to help. Also, I don't blow dry him extensively, just get the worst of the damp out then let him dry off naturally. Of course, that means a lack of styling, but blow drying will dry out hair and skin on humans so I figured the same applied to dogs! Slicker brushing (gently) seems to help, maybe it stimulates the skin a bit (just guessing here) but he does seem to have improved since I changed from combing to slickering.

If you have any other queries about managing a dog with immune problems, please feel free to PM me - Pushkin was diagnosed over a year ago so we're getting really used to the ups and downs of it!


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