# Lexi starts Puppy Kindergarten on Tuesday....



## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

Do they have classes for "mini" dogs? If not, she's so itty bitty tiny that I would caution you to be very careful. The bigger puppies can easily do damage to the little tykes. I know the place I'm taking Jas has "mini" classes for just about everything including agility. 

Jasper starts his puppy classes on the 27th. So excited!

Hope your class is lots of fun!


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

I am not sure I would do a class that young....IMO. Too much potential of the young pup picking up something.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

How old is she?? She looks to be very young. I always advise my buyers not to take their pups anywhere where there are other dogs until they have had their third shot and had two weeks to let it kick in. Even with three shots, the pups aren't fully protected. Apparently distemper is on the rise because of racoons getting the same strain that infects dogs, and parvo seems to be everywhere right now. Scary enough to take an immunized adult out, but a young puppy....please think about waiting a bit. I would not want to see you go through the heartache of losing this precious wee girl.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> How old is she?? She looks to be very young. I always advise my buyers not to take their pups anywhere where there are other dogs until they have had their third shot and had two weeks to let it kick in. Even with three shots, the pups aren't fully protected. Apparently distemper is on the rise because of racoons getting the same strain that infects dogs, and parvo seems to be everywhere right now. Scary enough to take an immunized adult out, but a young puppy....please think about waiting a bit. I would not want to see you go through the heartache of losing this precious wee girl.


I agree with Arreau completely! This class is kind of a sweet thought - but honestly wasted money SORRY! You can do everything they will right at home Lexi wont miss a thing. Being that the age group is up to 14 weeks -that is such a risk for young puppies.....


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Our local kennel club had an obedience class series that started the week we brought Lucy home (at 8 weeks old), but there was NO WAY I was going to take her out where she may pick something up and get sick (even though I was ITCHING to show her off to everyone I know so they could tell me what a beautiful dog I had!!) 

I waited until the next class sessions started in January, after Lucy had acquired all of her vaccinations and I was confident that she was as protected as possible from the diseases that could make her sick (or worse!) 

She wasn't a sweet, wee puppy anymore when we started our rally obedience classes, but everyone was just as blown away by her beauty and brains!!

You need to do what you feel is right, but IMO waiting for the puppy classes until Lexie is a little older and her vaccinations are well under her belt would be the prudent thing to do... You may feel that the class is full of harmless puppies, but it is what those harmless puppies may be carrying that could be heartbreaking!

Good luck!!


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## LexisMom (Feb 16, 2010)

I honestly did not think about it that way.I think I may write them and just wait.I would not want anything to happen to her..that would break all of our hearts.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Another thing to remember is that there is no reason that you cannot play with some of the elements of the training while at home with her... YOU can help her learn to walk nicely on a leash, YOU can help her learn to sit and down, YOU can teach her the basic manners that will help her be a success in class when you finally DO take her to a structured program!! We did this with Lucy and it's a great bonding experience and it helps keep puppy safe! Have fun!!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

LexisMom said:


> I honestly did not think about it that way.I think I may write them and just wait.I would not want anything to happen to her..that would break all of our hearts.


You can thank Olie for this one. I don't know where my head was, but until I saw her post, it never dawned on me, and I go through this over and over again with my puppy people. I give a whole run down on how to handle the vet's office (never, ever walk the puppy in. Always carry it, sit with it on your lap. Don't let any dog or human touch it but the vet. Don't use the scale (they never disinfect it between dogs) Don't let it walk around outside to pee or poop. Animals are usually there because they are sick. Ask the vet if the table has been disinfected prior to setting the puppy down. And take Lysol with you and spray your shoes before you get back in the car). You cannot be too careful. Way too many things can happen. And if a young puppy gets sick, the outcome is usually not good. So much better to err on the side of caution than risk losing your baby!!!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

plumcrazy said:


> Another thing to remember is that there is no reason that you cannot play with some of the elements of the training while at home with her... YOU can help her learn to walk nicely on a leash, YOU can help her learn to sit and down, YOU can teach her the basic manners that will help her be a success in class when you finally DO take her to a structured program!! We did this with Lucy and it's a great bonding experience and it helps keep puppy safe! Have fun!!


Completely agree. You can start all of her basic training in your own backyard, and it IS a wonderful bonding experience. And, it is much safer.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Yes, training can be done at home, but you miss out on the socialization aspect of classes. If you wait to take the puppy anywhere until they are 4 months (when the last vaccine is given) then you have pretty much missed the Key socialization time frame with puppies. I personally would not wait that long, but thats just my opinion.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

The puppy can socialize with humans inside the home, and will be fine to wait until it is flour months old to socialize with other dogs. I am so sorry if this sounds coarse, but cannot think of another way to emphasize how important I feel it is to wait, but having a well socialized young puppy who is dying of distemper of parvo is no good for anyone.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

I sort of have the best of both worlds since I have my own fully vaccinated adult pack at home and they were all more than willing to help socialize Lucy until she was old enough to visit with strange dogs... I agree that socialization can still be conducted in the safer confines of your own home or yard with the help of the family and if you have friends who would be willing to come in and do safe, clean stranger socialization; then you're not really missing out on a lot...

I used to manage a humane society and I have seen, smelled, felt the devastation of parvo... it is not something I would wish on my worst enemy. Viruses are invisible, pervasive, and dangerous. IMO, I would rather modify my socialization training than put my puppy at risk for picking up one of these diseases... I'm not saying put the puppy in a bubble, but be aware of risks with whatever you choose to do with your new baby!!


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

I still think that puppies need outside stimulation before 4 months of age. 
I have seen way too many puppies be kept in the home and be extreamly fearful out of the home when they are older. They become used to you and your pets quickly, but cant adjust if you take them out of their comfort zone. 

This is a wonderful link explaining why it is important. It also has the AVSAB position statement on puppy socialization (american veterinary society of animal behavior).

http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/puppy%20socialization.pdf


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Sorry, I just think it is far more improtant to keep this baby safe, especially when there seem to be outbreaks of two diseases all over the continent. Didn't we have someone on here not too long ago whoise neighbours dog died of Parvo, and she was fearful for her own dog?

There a loads of puppies in breeding kennels until they are six to nine months old, and they don't get out to things to socialize, and they adjust and do fine. I may be over cautious, but I would rather be careful. The idea of taking this tiny little muffin out at this age scares the bejeepers out of me.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

bigpoodleperson said:


> I still think that puppies need outside stimulation before 4 months of age.


No argument with outside stimulation - I just don't think outside stimulation amidst a bunch of not-fully-vaccinated, strange puppies is the best choice... Take the puppy to grandma's house, a neighbor's house, a co-worker, church friend, sister, brother, aunt, uncle's house... just places where there aren't a lot of potential disease passing playmates - IMO it's only common sense.


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

I am torn on this as well. I too have seen a puppy die of parvo. 

Willow contracted Parvo when she was 5-7 months old (I cant remember quite when it was) up until that time we had not taken her anywhere. Not to petsmart, not to a class, I groomed her at home. 

Our vet said that it could have washed in from someone else's yard, we could have walked in it, our car could have driven through it. 

Personally I would be ok with taking my puppy to a class 3 weeks after they had recieved their second vaccine.

While a puppy CAN be socialised after they have recieved all their vaccines, it is harder. 

just my $0.02 (when did they take the cents sign off of keyboards?!)

Edited to add that Willow made a full recovery from her parvo,and was fully vaccinated except for Rabies when she contracted it.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

frostfirestandards said:


> Personally I would be ok with taking my puppy to a class 3 weeks after they had recieved their second vaccine.


This would probably be just fine... I think Lexie is just 8ish weeks old and I'm thinking she's probably only had one vaccination so far...

It's really weird about Willow (being fully vaccinated) getting the disease - I wonder if any of her vaccinations were mishandled at some point in the delivery to your vet and became ineffective... Hmmmm... She was at a better age (if there IS such a thing) when she got it, too... I think an older puppy stands a better chance at surviving parvo than an 8 week old baby... Although I've know adult dogs to get it and not survive... I'm glad she pulled through and is now happy and healthy!!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

plumcrazy said:


> This would probably be just fine... I think Lexie is just 8ish weeks old and I'm thinking she's probably only had one vaccination so far...
> 
> It's really weird about Willow (being fully vaccinated) getting the disease - I wonder if any of her vaccinations were mishandled at some point in the delivery to your vet and became ineffective... Hmmmm... She was at a better age (if there IS such a thing) when she got it, too... I think an older puppy stands a better chance at surviving parvo than an 8 week old baby... Although I've know adult dogs to get it and not survive... I'm glad she pulled through and is now happy and healthy!!


I am glad she pulled though too!! What a horrible ordeal.

It is up to the individual I guess. Personally, I would not take a single chance. I know how easy it is to pick stuff up (my Mom lost her first Spoo puppy when she contracted Distmeper from the vet's office and died at about thirteen weeks old. And my Brother had a white Standard that contracted Parvo at about eight months old, and died a slow, horrible death). I would not take a puppy into any place where there are other dogs (unless I know these dogs, and know they are fully vaccinated) until they have their four month shot with 2 weeks to kick in. Better to have the fully vaccinated dogs come to your home.

And Plumcrazy is absolutely correct. The older the puppy, the better its chances. It is not a guarantee, but makes the odds a bit better.

If you treid to get this puppy boarded at a reputable boarding kennel, they would not do it. They will not board a pup until it has had all of its vaccines including kennel cough and rabies. There is a reason for that!


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

bigpoodleperson said:


> Yes, training can be done at home, but you miss out on the socialization aspect of classes. If you wait to take the puppy anywhere until they are 4 months (when the last vaccine is given) then you have pretty much missed the Key socialization time frame with puppies. I personally would not wait that long, but thats just my opinion.


I disagree with this and I've read many sites that disagree with this as well. I think you can socialize a dog at any age. There's no miracle number that escapes from you and then you can never go back. Unless the dog has a negative experience you can always turn a new experience into something positive therefore creating an interest in it and you. Personally I feel too much pressure is put on "socializing" dogs when really if you look at some of the very experienced trainers, they state that the dog's focus needs to be on you, not other dogs or other people. If you are training a dog and they are overly interested in other dogs, you have a harder time training. I posted a link from the Leerburg website for people with puppies that I find very interesting for beginning training. Take away from his teachings what you will but he has some very valid points about a dog's interactions with humans and other dogs.


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## Cdnjennga (Jul 30, 2009)

One way to get your puppy out and about safely is to carry her in a backpack. We have done this with all our pups to get them used to the sounds and sights of the city. Just carry it on your front, put some towels in so she's at a good height and off you go. This way she's protected from all the nasties that might be on the ground, but also getting exposed to the sounds she will have to get used to in life. I plan to do this with my pup and will be taking him over to the local school to meet some kids, taking him on public transport, etc. I live right downtown so it's important then he get used to the sounds of the city.

I personally would also wait to attend obedience class. Partially bc of her chances of picking up something, but also just because she is so tiny. I'm guessing she will be much smaller than many of the other pups in the class and could get hurt.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

I too like a dog that is focused on their handler, but how can it be if it is too scared of the world around it because it is new. There are Tons of links on puppy stages with key socialization times. I will have to search for them later, but they are pretty much known as fact, not opinion.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

bigpoodleperson said:


> I too like a dog that is focused on their handler, but how can it be if it is too scared of the world around it because it is new. There are Tons of links on puppy stages with key socialization times. I will have to search for them later, but they are pretty much known as fact, not opinion.


Yes it is important to socialize a puppy, but at what cost? There is no reason a puppy cannot be socialized in the home. If you have friends who have dogs who are fully vaccinated, they can come and visit and help with the socializing. Cdnjenga had a great idea which gets your puppy used to sights and sounds of the world around them without putting them at risk. Why anyone would risk the life of their new puppy, whom they love, whom they paid alot of money for is just beyond me.


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

bigpoodleperson said:


> I too like a dog that is focused on their handler, but how can it be if it is too scared of the world around it because it is new. There are Tons of links on puppy stages with key socialization times. I will have to search for them later, but they are pretty much known as fact, not opinion.


I think what's most important are sounds to different stimuli not people and other dogs. These are dogs, not children and through positive reinforcement training you should be able to train any dog (that hasn't had a negative experience) if you have trained well in the home. Having a household with children is one of the best ways to get a dog used to many unexpected sounds because in the end, it's more important that your dog is healthy than out there playing with another dog or another human.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

I guess one should weigh out the options 

- socialize as much as possible from home or I liked the idea of carrying the dogs around to places _OR_ increasing the risks of a sick dog, or worse. 

I do not look at it as NOT socialization but socializing a bit differently until they have better protection....The recommendation is not to keep them in the home away from everyone/thing. I cannot see a dog being traumatized by not attending a puppy class that young.


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