# Looking for a working Poodle



## jason_mazzy (Dec 17, 2013)

My name is Jason. I am a US ARMY disabled combat Veteran. I grew up with toy poodles and have always found poodles to be great dogs. I am a former breeder of game hunting breeds (patterdales and APBT). I have raised thousands of dogs and currently have ZERO dogs. 

I have a small farm and am on the lookout for a Standard poodle for working. I came to this forum to hopefully help me find a sound body dog who has working lines and working drive. 

My needs are:

Must be a Poodle. I need the skin and hair type to fit my children and wife's lifestyle. We are sans dogs because of the constant shedding and mild allergies of my former dog life. 

Poodle must be sound in Body for light physical work and sound in temperament. The dogs primary job will be to guard the family (6 children and 1 wife) while I am away. 

Secondary Job would be to tolerate the miniature cows and goats and ducks etc.... Preferably it would be willing to protect them also. Raccoons and occasional foxes like to eat my birds or young goats or harass my calves.

Least on the list is tracking skills. Always thought it would be nice to have a dog that could track but it isn't a priority. 

I have seen a Poodle do Schutzund so protective work is my priority. Sound body and temperament are priority. The dog WILL NOT be schutzund trained but I would expect basic obedience and protective drive.



I hope I can contribute here and I really hope you can point me towards a reputable working line breeder. 

Thank you all for allowing me the opportunity to join.

Jason Mazzy
USA ARMY (RET)
Master Mason 32°


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

Louter Creek Hunting Poodles in Ga. Have really smart, working Poodles. My friend with her Poodle had a great working/training down there.


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## Curls (May 14, 2013)

I was recently on a similar search but for a poodle well suited for detection work. I spent a year on research and learned about the health problems associated to standard poodles and their typical drives. In my case, a breeder I had contacted before deciding on a poodle needed to place a dog who had been returned to her, and so we ended up bringing home the amazing Malinois in my avatar. She is a rock star of a dog and has taken to the work like a pro, but my allergies mean she cuddles my husband instead of me, so I'm back to looking for a poodle buddy for myself. 

As for protection drive, I'm not sure how far you want to take that? Bark at strangers at the door? Or? It's a rare dog, of any breed, that will go beyond barking when it gets down to it, and that can be a good thing. In spoos, you may need to be careful to avoid dogs showing aggression born of fear and instability. They don't typically have the temperament for protection work, that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish as I'm sure you're aware. You may already know about it, but check out the working dog forum for ideas on that. They will be admirers of your patterdales and APBTs for sure.  I'm familiar with the black spoo in schutzhund and he does pretty well, but the "aggression" shown there is strictly a game and often doesn't translate to a dog who will actually protect. My girl is from French Ring lines and many of those dogs are squishy off the training field.

Gardenpath Standard Poodles has had great success, especially in tracking. If you google hunting poodles, there should be a few kennels popping up. Look for health testing and guarantees. You could also go on the Versatility in Poodles website and look for kennel names producing successful dogs. Versatility In Poodles Poodles are smart and do well in canine sports in general.

You should also become familiar with the impact of the Wycliffe kennel on the health of standards, the coefficient of inbreeding and it's impact, the frequency of bloat, as well as the specifics of genetic health problems. Trust me, you really don't want to skip this step. I avoided an epileptic poodle by very little...

Poodle Health Registry
Poodle Pedigree

This group of people is wonderfully helpful and I'm sure will be able to add tons more than I have.  Good luck!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

It sounds like you need a Great Pyrenees or a Rottweiler or Doberman...GSD. For protection, Poodles aren't really known for protection.


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## jason_mazzy (Dec 17, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> It sounds like you need a Great Pyrenees or a Rottweiler or Doberman...GSD. For protection, Poodles aren't really known for protection.


rule 1: it must be a poodle


this does not need to be a herd dog as it is not living with the animals BUT I am hoping that it would recognize an intruder. 

I have seen them work Schutzund so I know they can do protection work. My work is mostly obedience and the ability to bark and show presence enough that a person would not want to enter the home. 


I am also open to pairs of dogs.


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## aasteapots (Oct 6, 2013)

Check out Alexanderpoodles She donates many of her puppies to working for the blind and disabled. I have one of her pups now that will be used as an Autism service dog for my two sons. Her dogs are bred for temperament not show. I know she has a littler coming the end of this month. I have heard nothing but positive reviews about her and her dogs. Our Pup is almost 6 months and is an amazingly smart and well tempered young lady.


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## Curls (May 14, 2013)

jason_mazzy said:


> rule 1: it must be a poodle
> 
> 
> this does not need to be a herd dog as it is not living with the animals BUT I am hoping that it would recognize an intruder.
> ...


Just be careful not to equate schutzhund and personal protection training. Schutzhund is like a sword fight in a play. From a distance it looks real, but when you get closer you realize that the swords are cardboard and the actors have never been in so much as a fist fight. Schutzhund dogs are talented at flashy obedience and playing tug with a bite suit. Most handlers admit their dogs wouldn't be any use in a back alley. 

A poodle could pull off the trained bark and hold, but they really don't have the temperament to go beyond that. If that's all you're looking for, then you should be good to go. Focus on dogs with working titles in their backgrounds and go from there.


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

True Story - 

As told to me by the Deputy 


Domestic Disturbance call. The Deputy Sheriff and ride along (new Deputy and my friend) pull up and there is a Standard Poodle at the door...

Deputy Sheriff says to the new guy (my buddy who until this occurrence did not fully appreciate the versatility of a poodle)

"Oh No! It's one of those big poodles!"

He goes on to explain the following:

Rottie - lotsa bark and bluff - maybe go after you but depends on the dog.

Dalmation - never know what one of those will do....

That poodle - it will eat you to protect its family. Watch out for them!


Now ya'll can discuss it all you want. This was a conversation that went on between 2 officers on a call. It was told to me as it was told to the officer. I didn't quote - but you get the idea.

Gave my friend a new respect for my poodles. 

So, if the OP wants a poodle for protection, let him pick his dog! 

OP, I'd start with Gardenpath, given their broader experience (tracking and obedience and field title. I'd say Louter but they focus on the field) and let them direct you.

Tabatha
NOLA Standards

PS From the daughter of another Master Sergeant, Thank you for your service.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> It sounds like you need a Great Pyrenees or a Rottweiler or Doberman...GSD. For protection, Poodles aren't really known for protection.


I beg to differ.  My poodles sound like they would eat you alive if you came to the door and Jazz has an enormous bark. The fact that they wouldn't doesn't matter, but they are protective. At least, the standards are. They can also be trained easily. They make good natural guard dogs, but are not prone to bite.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

outwest said:


> I beg to differ.  My poodles sound like they would eat you alive if you came to the door and Jazz has an enormous bark. The fact that they wouldn't doesn't matter, but they are protective. At least, the standards are. They can also be trained easily. They make good natural guard dogs, but are not prone to bite.


I agree. Lou and Apollo scare people sometimes (even though they are super sweet) they look big (lots of hair) and their barks are thick!
I had a door-to-door salesperson here the other day and the guy froze in place when he saw my poodles coming down the stairs, he said "oh my...oh my.. Those are big big dogs ma'am" and I laughed and told the poodles to go say hi and they were waging tails and all. But if someone walks near my window or anything suspicious the dogs sound mean! 
Oh! Recently my poodles scared some religious door-to-door people away too. I looked through the peep hole, 
and they were about to knock but the barks made them change their mind, they just left a flyer  hehehehe good babies! Good babies!!!!! lol


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Oh! Here! A picture I just took like 5 minutes ago  
The poodles favorite spot (to protect us AND cool their bellies) that's my front door.








And Here they are making sure no one is coming in unannounced. (Watching out the front window)








And here ... They heard something suspicious so they are barking . If I say "it's ok" they stop.








EDIT: I just told my husband about this thread and he said he has had 6 standard poodles in his life (not including these 2) and he said most of his friends were like "can you put the dog away?" Cause his poodles were huge. And they all barked to defend him/his family/ and the house 




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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

I think standard poodles make extremely good watch dogs; they are very sensitive though, so you might have to temper your usual training approach if you are used to being abrupt. Poodles are wicked smart, will appreciate a strong leader and can be trained to do anything, but it has to be fun for them; they think for themselves and that can be a MAJOR advantage. Also though, some (like mine) have a high prey drive so you might have to work on that with a poodle, training them to handle all your animals in the correct way. Mine love kids, so you can definitely find a great standard poodle that guard your family with it's life and help with the animals, too.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I totally agree that you don't train them in quite the same way you would a German Shepard or other working type dog. They are more sensitive. One of the poodle traits is an inordinate desire to please their owners (they call it 'biddable'). Because of that trait, harsh training techniques that wouldn't phase some breeds could break a poodles spirit. Make training fun and reward based and you'll be amazed how fast they learn.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Poodles make excellent *WATCH* dogs but are a poor choice for a *GUARD* dog. IF what you really want is a GUARD dog look into other non shedding breeds such as Bouvier, Black Russian Terrier, or Giant Schnauzers. Even a Kerry Blue might be a better choice. If what you really want is a WATCH dog then yes a poodle could be a good choice. 

They are soft dogs, most are softer then Pitties which if your stock was like others I have known says a lot. They are also super intelligent which is a devilish two edged sword. It means they learn quickly both the things you mean for them to learn AND the things you don't want them to learn. They are thinking dogs and don't like doing the same thing over and over. It also means as thinkers they can apply something they learned before to a new problem and come up with their own solution again this can be either good or bad....


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## cliffdweller (Jan 31, 2011)

I agree with spindledreams, there is a significant difference between a watchdog (dog that gives alarm) and a guard dog (dog that is protective and will actively defend against intrusion with aggression). I think many Poodles would be suitable as watchdogs, but I'm not sure about guarding. In my experience, really "sharp" dogs require careful training.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

*jason mazzy*: This is a bit off-topic, but I thought it might be of interest to you. 

PoodlesinWWII
...by spring of 1942, 32 official breeds were classed as war dogs by the Army. Of the breeds listed, Standard Poodles were included. It was noted:

"This breed has unusual ability to learn and retain and keen senses. A drawback is a rapidly-growing coat, never shed and required constant cutting to prevent its becoming matted."4

In late 1943 that acceptable list was cut to 18 breeds, still including Standard Poodles. By the end of 1944 breeds preferred was cut to five, finally eliminating the Poodle. In 1946 the German Shepherd was named the official US Army dog. Doberman Pinschers were named the official Marine war dog.

While evidence suggests that Poodles were never shipped overseas for service, there is a great deal of documentation to show that Poodles were used with some frequency on the home front, doing just what Mrs. Erlanger had suggested; guarding defense plants, military instillations, and the nation's coast-line...


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## Spoobark (Jul 17, 2013)

They can look aggressive... even when yawning ;-)


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## jason_mazzy (Dec 17, 2013)

the discussion here is well directed and showcases many interesting facts about poodles. Watch dog is most accurate in describing my NEED vs. want. if there is some guard personality that is great but temperament around the children and natural Watchdog instinct are paramount.

Any and all leads would be well appreciated.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

A watch dog barks. A protection or guard dog backs up his bark and won't back down. Even a lot of Dobermans, for instance, can get very fierce and protective, but when push comes to shove, they'll back down. They're not all "sharp" enough. And you never know just how tough they are until something happens.

Most dogs will bark at intruders and let the owner know of the intruder. A good guard dog will attack if need be and not back down. I believe a good guard or personal protection dog needs to be very strong and have some weight behind him and good agility and be VERY well socialized to know the difference between a friendly stranger and a bad guy.


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## Curls (May 14, 2013)

outwest said:


> I totally agree that you don't train them in quite the same way you would a German Shepard or other working type dog. They are more sensitive. One of the poodle traits is an inordinate desire to please their owners (they call it 'biddable'). Because of that trait, harsh training techniques that wouldn't phase some breeds could break a poodles spirit. Make training fun and reward based and you'll be amazed how fast they learn.


Don't discount the sensitivity of working dogs. I've met many, my own malinois included, who are highly sensitive, handler soft and fall on the floor in horror if you raise your voice. Their biddability and pack drive is part of what makes them excellent working dogs. There are more points of commonality between malinois and poodles than you would expect. The working dog community is advancing pretty quickly in training techniques suited to soft dogs as the old boys age out.


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## Curls (May 14, 2013)

spindledreams said:


> Poodles make excellent *WATCH* dogs but are a poor choice for a *GUARD* dog. IF what you really want is a GUARD dog look into other non shedding breeds such as Bouvier, Black Russian Terrier, or Giant Schnauzers. Even a Kerry Blue might be a better choice. If what you really want is a WATCH dog then yes a poodle could be a good choice.
> 
> They are soft dogs, most are softer then Pitties which if your stock was like others I have known says a lot. They are also super intelligent which is a devilish two edged sword. It means they learn quickly both the things you mean for them to learn AND the things you don't want them to learn. They are thinking dogs and don't like doing the same thing over and over. It also means as thinkers they can apply something they learned before to a new problem and come up with their own solution again this can be either good or bad....


x2 on all points. My male bouv was an impressive natural guard.  Sounds like the OP is looking for a watch dog, which a poodle would be excellent at. I think this is a very worthwhile thread especially to help describe the differences between a watch dog and a trained protection dog.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Curls said:


> Don't discount the sensitivity of working dogs. I've met many, my own malinois included, who are highly sensitive, handler soft and fall on the floor in horror if you raise your voice. Their biddability and pack drive is part of what makes them excellent working dogs. There are more points of commonality between malinois and poodles than you would expect. The working dog community is advancing pretty quickly in training techniques suited to soft dogs as the old boys age out.


Absolutely true. Dobermans can be tough when called for, but also _very _sensitive at the same time. They have to be to be as in tune with their family as they are and so much in tune with their environment...very sensitive to small nuances or change. My Doberman had to be handled with PR and never harshness. They also have a rather low tolerance for aggressiveness directed at them by humans. A Doberman, (I use this breed because it was "my" breed) also is not _trained_ to be a personal protection dog. They are naturally....if they're worth their weight.




> The working dog community is advancing pretty quickly in training techniques suited to soft dogs as the old boys age out


So true. Check this guy out. Steve White



Well, I guess I'm veering off topic a little bit. But yeah, a good, scary bark is all a person really needs typically. I wouldn't really like my dog to become vulnerable to a human bad guy by getting tangled up with him. Humans can over take a dog with weapons and other means. A good, sharp bark, whether from a big dog or my shrill sounding little dogs, that was above the normal yap yap, would find me ready with my Glock.


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## Curls (May 14, 2013)

On reflection, I think it's a very good thing that poodles are soft given their intelligence. My bouvier was a lovey boy, but highly intelligent and handler HARD. He was capable of problem solving and didn't give a flying @%#$. If he felt the reward was worth the punishment, he'd do what he wanted to do and accept the consequences. The neighbours min pins harassed him continually and I always had to pay attention to his latest scheme to get his very large teeth around them... :frusty:

I have a feeling that a hard poodle would be quite the headache. :ahhhhh:


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## Curls (May 14, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> So true. Check this guy out. Steve White


I'm a fan of Michael Ellis and Ivan Balabanov, myself. :adore: I'll look into Steve White.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

One lady in a Facebook group I am in got stuck with a Schnoodle. (Giant Schnauzer x Standard Poodle) that she said was the most untrainable dog she has every had in over 30 years of training. Poodle smarts, and just don't give a damn, could care less what a person wanted him to do it was his way ONLY. Not a good service dog prospect and she rehomed "the thing" to someone who felt they could make him into a good dog. Wry grin she will NEVER recommend that cross. Grin and your smart don't give a damn poodle would probably be a Flandoodle...


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Well, I guess I'm veering off topic a little bit. But yeah, a good, scary bark is all a person really needs typically. I wouldn't really like my dog to become vulnerable to a human bad guy by getting tangled up with him. Humans can over take a dog with weapons and other means. A good, sharp bark, whether from a big dog or my shrill sounding little dogs, that was above the normal yap yap, would find me ready with my Glock.


The trainer I've been working with is of the same opinion. A barking dog is all you need to deter most house-breakers. He said, "If your dog barks at someone trying to get into your house, and they keep coming, they're armed and they're going to shoot your dog first thing."


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## Jacknic (Sep 14, 2010)

I would check out Tudorose Standard Poodles


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## Oreo's Mommy (Dec 18, 2012)

Oreo is a miniature poodle. He just turned a year and is all of 12.4 pounds. He is an amazing watch dog. I wish he would take a vacation sometimes though  
He will not bark if someone comes near the house and we aren't home unless they knock on the door....this is nice for Hawaii living since we all leave our windows open and live close to each other. He will bark like crazy if I am home or if the kids are home if anyone comes around.... I guess he figures my husband can fend for himself. He also barks once to let me know when the kids come home from school or my husband from work....no one can sneak up if I am home alone with Oreo. 

Oreo loves everyone when we are out and about. He is fascinated with birds, unsure of cats, and scared ****less (pardon the expression) of chickens. He loves motorcycles and dirt bikes but is not too keen on thunder. 

For us, Oreo is the perfect dog for condo living with an active lifestyle.


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## HOTW (Aug 31, 2010)

I used to think Poodles were naught but watch dogs til someone came into my shop and my Std almost ate off his face. He tried to come into my grooming area and I didn't hear him but Dodger sure did he went after him and wouldn't back down. The guy wouldn't leave until I told him I was calling the local cops and since I groomed their dogs they would be there fast as they could. He beat it pretty quick. I was hanging onto my dog who was trying to go over the grooming room gate at him! 

And this was the goofiest(albeit he was a barker) dog I have ever had, many people thought he was the youngest dog because he was such a would up ball of energy.

And he would tolerate way more abuse from little kids than he should have, he never ever threatened to bite another human for the rest of his life, so I trusted his judgement that time!


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## jason_mazzy (Dec 17, 2013)

HOTW said:


> I used to think Poodles were naught but watch dogs til someone came into my shop and my Std almost ate off his face. He tried to come into my grooming area and I didn't hear him but Dodger sure did he went after him and wouldn't back down. The guy wouldn't leave until I told him I was calling the local cops and since I groomed their dogs they would be there fast as they could. He beat it pretty quick. I was hanging onto my dog who was trying to go over the grooming room gate at him!
> 
> And this was the goofiest(albeit he was a barker) dog I have ever had, many people thought he was the youngest dog because he was such a would up ball of energy.
> 
> And he would tolerate way more abuse from little kids than he should have, he never ever threatened to bite another human for the rest of his life, so I trusted his judgement that time!


Sounds like he may have saved you from something terrible.


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## HOTW (Aug 31, 2010)

jason_mazzy said:


> Sounds like he may have saved you from something terrible.


I agree, the guy kept telling me to put him away and I told him No, since my dog didn't like him and he was attempting to enter an area that had a very clear Keep Out sign! His son is very different but I do not doubt he would do the same. He is even more tuned to me than his Father was. The guy kept trying to get me on the other side of my gate and I was getting very bad vibes from him. A few years later on the few times I ever left him home he drove off an intruder that my neighbor saw breaking into my house!(forgot about that one)


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## jason_mazzy (Dec 17, 2013)

Still looking and listening to advice on kennels and breeders. Quality over quantity.


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

jason_mazzy said:


> Still looking and listening to advice on kennels and breeders. Quality over quantity.


You may want to check out hunting dog forums and ask for recommendations there.


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

read this post a few days ago...and have been thinking about my group of dogs. Each one has something different to bring to the table.
Madonna and Ziva are the alert dogs. they would not let someone they were not "friends" with enter the house. If my hubby is sleeping, they are on the bed. Hubby is in a wheelchair and they take guarding "Daddy" very seriously. 
Levi barks when someone come sup, but very friendly to all humans. would defend against other animals, but probably nor humans
Tammy, Bunny would bark, but would run if confronted by human..would fight another animal.
Cory/Layla/ Billie..love people, would maybe bark, again..would probably back down from humans

the 2 dogs that are most likely to protect the family are the ones that I would have to be careful placing in the right home. Both are more high drive, easy to obed train ( reward system) but also get bored quickly.
Everyone loves Cory, Layla, Levi...they are the fun loving cuddly friendly types 

Good luck in your search! I'm sure the right dog is out there


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

agree- as a watch dog- a loud bark and size the poodle is a very good deterant. and i don't doubt that bella would protect me if need be. i do think my aussies would beat her to the punch however on that end. 

One of our puppies went to a home for a similar reason- family pet but wife home while the husband is deployed- wanted something to deter robbers etc not not have to worry on temperament. Husband wants the dog for some possible hunting as all our pups tested well for hunting. I will say the phantom coloring does tend to make people look twice too- as they assume it's a dobie x not a poodle. LOL


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