# Just how bad/dangerous/horrible is it to feed grain?



## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

Fletcher is so beautiful. 

I don't know how bad it is to feed grains other than corn or wheat, sorry.

Canned pumpkin is amazing. I would add it while I was figuring things out.

Orijen is a 5 star food but I have heard of some dogs doing better on the company's other food, Acana... I think that is a 5 star food as well.


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

Quite honestly... grains are NOT bad at all UNLESS the dog has a bonafide intolerance or allergy to a particular grain! 
Grains have been wrongly vilified! I DO have a dog who is intolerant, and so, she gets a grain free food (Rotate either Precise or Fromm grain free formulas and she does great!)
My other dogs do fine on grain-inclusive foods. 

My dogs did HORRIBLE on Orijen/Acana. Sure, the people on the inter webs say it's the best thing ever, they also say grains are evil and will kill your dog. 
Truth is, they won't! 
My sensitive tummy boy does best with a chicken/rice very similar to the one you mention. (Precise Foundation)

Dogs thrive on MANY different foods, whether they have grain or not. The only thing you can do is try it and see! If he does great, keep using it or use it in your 'rotation.' 
If not, try something else. 

Try not to let all the hype get to you.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

I agree with Shamrockmommy, dogs thrive on a variety of foods. Some people are dogmatic (see what I did there? lol) about dogfood but I never have been. I fed my dogs Orijen and Acana most of their lives and their coats are awesome. The vet says Orijen has more protein than a lot of dogs need unless they're working or performance dogs, so I switched. However, I am very bad for giving the dogs people food as snacks so they still get grains from that. The first time I noticed Indy ever drool was when I was baking a batch of bread! A fresh bun with butter is still her favorite food in the world  Next is stew with a dumpling.


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

I've been doing a lot of research today (now I've got a migraine building!) and I tend to agree that the anti-grain thing is almost turning into a fad.

I myself avoid gluten due to intolerance, but enjoy other seeds and grains.

From my research today it also seems that the domestic dog may actually have more enzymes for digesting starch than their wild ancestors.

It appears that the Best Breed food has been on the Whole Dog Journal Editor's Choice list for the past few years. So it seems to be a decent quality food, but not widely available since it's a smaller company.

I'm think I'm going to introduce it very slowly and see how he does. If I see problems I'll back off and try something different. We're getting down to a couple of week's supply of the Orijen so that gives me time to transition.


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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

Every dog is different with different needs. I have three dogs, and two of them have sensitivities. Sunny, my poodle, is my garbage disposal and ends up eating all the kibble rejects from the other two - lol!

I've heard a lot of people who's dogs haven't tolerated Orijen well, due to its extremely high protein content. I have a boxer who can't tolerate any high protein kibble and needs one under 30%. I tried Taste of the Wild, which has always been my go-to kibble for boxers, and he started losing weight, due to the low calorie count (only 350 kcal/cup). I'm now changing him over to (gasp!) Pro Plan Grain Free (I NEVER thought I'd do this), along with Mercola Digestive Enzymes For Pets added to his food, and he's already showing improvement after two days.

Grains aren't necessarily bad, but I'd avoid corn, wheat, and soy. All of my dogs do better without them (they get very itchy and get runny eyes), but I know that's not true of all dogs.


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

I should add that we started using Geneflora, which is a probiotic, about 3 weeks ago. 

I think it helped with the slight itching he had, but the softer poo and anal glands are still an issue.


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## PoodlePaws (May 28, 2013)

My dogs just went from a moderate protein grain free food at 25% and I increased them to a 37% protein grain free food and their poops actually got firmer


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I am trying to remember where I read something about expressing anal glands. It seems that it said if you do it over and aver it will keep having to be done. My spoo has only had it done once and that was when he had been on kibble for awhile. Normally he is on a raw diet and has small firm poos, which somehow seem to keep the glands from needing to be expressed.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Actually usually the opposite it true. The smaller poops don't push on the anal glands helping them to express. But...some dogs are just more prone to anal gland issues. Also larger dogs seem to have fewer problems. It also has to do with diet, etc. If your dog is not having problems, butt scooting, licking, etc. I wouldn't worry about it.


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## PoodleElements (Sep 20, 2014)

I think Best Breed is a good food...we have fed one of our dogs best breed before and they seemed to do really well on it. Plus it is way cheaper than a lot of the other holistic foods available. Another option is if you have a Costco or Sam's club in the area, they offer a generic holistic food... Even in grain free and it is of course much cheaper than the name brands.


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## PoodleElements (Sep 20, 2014)

Also pumpkin won't hurt your dog it is a natural digestive aid to help regulate their system. However if your dog is used to the food, has been on it a while, and is still having soft stool then there is probably something in it that is just not going to agree with him. Pumpkin is more of a temporary fix like if you are switching foods... Not something that I would feed my dog every meal.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

More expensive doesn't always equal better for a particular dog. I think grains are only bad if the individual is sensitive to them. I also agree with N2M about smaller poo not helping to express the anal glands.

I think that if Fletcher does well on Dr. Gary then it should be fine. Dogs are not obligate carnivores the way cats are. They can do fine on a more omnivorous diet barring any allergies and such.


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## Cailin77 (Jul 21, 2012)

My dog Brody has been grain free for over a year, but I really don't think grains are terrible. Brody has itchy feet and a tendency to get ear infections- both of these issues seem to be helped by a grain free diet. 

That being said, I would avoid corn if possible. Corn is really just a cheap filler without any real nutritional value, and in my mind, the mark of a lower quality food. Growing up my family had a border collie x rottie that has terribly itchy skin until she was switched to a lamb and rice food. Turns out she had a corn allergy, long before that was a fad! 

If my dog didn't have sensitivities, I would be more worried about the quality of the food, rather than if it is grain free.


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

I wanted to update that Fletcher has been switched completely to Dr. Gary's Best Breed for a few weeks now and he's actually put on 2 to 3 pounds?! 

He isn't overweight, but he no longer has a painfully thin look, even if he's still trim.

I think the Orijen was just too rich for him.

I have noticed a bit of dandruff, and I'm going to monitor that. It could be due to my not rinsing him enough after a recent bath.

If I decide to go back to grain free, which will probably be in his feeding rotation at times, I'll probably look for one that's not quite as rich as Orijen, even though I think it's a great food.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I wonder if it could be the firmness of the poo that helps express the anal glands? Since I feed raw, with 10% bone, my Spoo's poo's are very firm. The dogs I have noticed 'scooting' on their butts seem to have soft poos. I could be totally wrong on this.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

We've kept in touch with a few families that have Hans' litter mates, and I do know that one of Hans' sisters doesn't seem to tolerate the grain free food. They initially tried to feed grain free, but she has been doing much better on a food with grain. I think it really just depends on the individual. My previous dog had horrible food allergies (corn, wheat, soy, chicken, and lamb). I wish he'd had the benefit of all of the food options there are now, because at that time just finding a food with no corn or wheat was tough. I don't feed Hans anything with corn or wheat, but have tried grain free and not grain free with no major difference. I think he likes the foods with grain a little better, though. The grain free foods we tried all had potato, and I'm not sure he was thrilled with it.


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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

Have you tried feeding less food? Orijen is very nutrient dense. If you feed too much food it can lead to loose stools.


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## Scully (Sep 30, 2014)

I thing dog food is only as good as the dogs digestion deems it. 

It could have the highest rating and be the best out there but if your dog doesn't agree with it that doesn't make it a good food for them. For me even if i was feeding a lower quality food that my dog did excellently on that would make it a good food because my dog does well on it. People get hung up on food rating and only having the best when that doesn't always work out so well. In fact we were feeding grain free high rated food, and tried a few but my dog just never did well on them. As soon as we tried a food with grain in almost overnight her poops were better and i could see she was actually looking more healthy on it over the next few weeks. So i think grain is only bad if your dog is intolerant to it, but i dont think a lot of dogs are.


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

I did try feeding less, but his stool was still funky. On the new chicken/rice food, his stool is much more consistent, he's put on some much needed weight, and I think he seems a bit calmer?

I honestly think the Orijen was just too rich for his tummy as a full meal, but he still gets it daily as training treats, so he gets some nutrition/calories from it. Plus, it gives us a "back up" if something happens and we have to change foods quickly.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Cailin77 said:


> My dog Brody has been grain free for over a year, but I really don't think grains are terrible. Brody has itchy feet and a tendency to get ear infections- both of these issues seem to be helped by a grain free diet.
> 
> That being said, I would avoid corn if possible. Corn is really just a cheap filler without any real nutritional value, and in my mind, the mark of a lower quality food. Growing up my family had a border collie x rottie that has terribly itchy skin until she was switched to a lamb and rice food. Turns out she had a corn allergy, long before that was a fad!
> 
> If my dog didn't have sensitivities, I would be more worried about the quality of the food, rather than if it is grain free.


With my current dog, she had soft stool issues and I tried various non-grain canned and kibble food and she didn't get any better. We tried antibiotics and then just probiotics. She got worse. Stopping the probiotics got us back to where we were at the beginning.

So I started cooking brown rice and chicken for her and added digestive enzymes. She got better but did not have consistently good poos. But as soon as I started adding ID canned food to my rice/chicken mixture, she got perfect poos overnight. I know ID has corn in it and did not want to use it but it was recommended by the vet, so I bought a couple of cans and saw a real difference right away.

I stopped home cooking and just did the ID food and it went well for a while, but now I am back to half home cooking and half ID canned with good results again. I tried replacing the ID with a non-grain canned and it was not good.

So I don't understand why the ID canned food with the awful corn etc. helps her digestion, but it does. Go figure...


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## PoodlePaws (May 28, 2013)

Feeding a higher protein grain free food actually makes my tpoos poops firmer. 

First they were on Natural Balance Alpha - lamb, rabbit, and chicken and their poops were fine. It's a moderate protein. They got bored of it after a year. 4 star food

Switched to TASTE OF THE WILD southwest canyon formula. The poops weren't as firm and I don't like messy poops. 4 star food - moderate protein. 

So currently they are on I AND LOVE AND YOU red meat recipe. It is grain free and their poops are the firmest they've ever been. It's high protein and 5 star rated.


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