# Questions about if spoos are right for me



## AnnD (Jul 5, 2017)

Hey everyone!
I recently posted in the forum here : http://www.poodleforum.com/23-gener...struggling-6-month-spoo-puppy-im-new-too.html

If you didn't read that post, I'll fill you in here. If you did you can skip to below the dotted line.

I got my first spoo at the end of March. Asked the breeder if she did temperament testing (said she did) and I asked for a calm puppy (among other things). I have a chronic illness, and while I am up for exercising the puppy and doing the whole puppy thing, I knew I wouldn't be able to handle a super high energy dog. My ideal dog was pretty easy going (I knew he would be a puppy so obviously have puppy energy), sweet and fairly cuddly and just to be able to go out and about with them. Ideally was hoping to train them as my service dog to help my illness (although I know not all dogs are up for that, so short of that I would be happy with a well trained dog). She assured me he was these things.

Immediately on bringing him home (12 weeks) he was very nervous around people (no one can pet him and he will bark/lunge at certain people), not cuddly, hates being brushed or groomed (bites), is extremely bitey in general, is super reactive (lunging like crazy and barking) to basically any moving thing (bikes, cars, birds, people) and I am not able to have anyone over to the house without him barking and being afraid of them. Basically, it's like the opposite of what I was hoping for.

I have been doing tons of LAT and counterconditioning and it is making a small dent in all the behaviors. In my last post, I asked for suggestions and if I should rehome because I'm at my wits end. Many suggested I should rehome to someone more experienced/a better fit (obviously he's a lot to handle), mainly because of my illness, and as a first time owner, he is just too much for me to handle and I'm so stressed out from all the reactivity and lunging. I am still in this process of deciding for sure. I'm still trying not to feel like its my fault (even though he started out like this) and like I'm giving up, but since I got him it just has been overall not a great experience and I have literally done so much (behaviorist, 3 trainers, etc), that I think I need to just let it go and decide what is best for me....
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Anyways...At this point I am wondering is if a standard poodle is right for me...ever? I did do research beforehand and really thought the breed would be a good choice, but now I'm not so sure. I do have a chronic illness, but I am physically able to do a fair amount and am okay to train daily, go play fetch daily, walk etc. It's just beyond that that it can be too much for me. Like, I can't go on 5 mile hikes at this point.

I was hoping to get some insight into general poodle temperament and what is "normal." Like, are they cuddly? How much exercise on average? How are they with strangers? I don't feel like I have a good measure of what a poodle is like at all with this puppy.
Also, do you think I should try to find an adult poodle (like 2+ years) instead of going with a puppy? If so, how would I go about doing that? 
Or even a mini?

On another note, I'm also very concerned that if I re-home him I'll have a hard time finding a breeder/someone who will be willing to give me another dog...do you all think this is true or not? I have tried incredibly hard with him, and it would be so sad to not be able to get another chance. 

Thanks for listening!


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

I was hoping to get some insight into general poodle temperament and what is "normal." Like, are they cuddly? *My boy is not super cuddly. At home when I'm watching TV 
he's lying on the floor away from me. However he does come over for short cuddles,
though this has been more so since he's been older (he's 15 months) *How much exercise on average? *He currently gets 20-30 mins off leash runs a day. Half fetch,
half wandering around sniffing and running about on his own. He usually gets some light 'fetching' in the house throughout the evening.*How are they with strangers?*Asher LOVES all people. All people are his favourites. He can be iffy towards other dogs. Nothing that would bother us going for a walk unless a crazy puppy ran up in his face, but at my grooming shop with crazy dogs coming in I have to be aware and either put him away or hold him, though most dogs he's fine with coming into the salon.* I don't feel like I have a good measure of what a poodle is like at all with this puppy.
Also, do you think I should try to find an adult poodle (like 2+ years) instead of going with a puppy?*You should be able to tell what the dog's temperament is most likely going to be. However if it has any 'faults' they will be harder to work out (not that they can't necessarily be worked out but I would not take on a dog if an issue isn't something I could live with in case you can't fix it)* If so, how would I go about doing that?* Talk to breeders. They may have retired dogs in need of new companion homes.*
Or even a mini?

On another note, I'm also very concerned that if I re-home him I'll have a hard time finding a breeder/someone who will be willing to give me another dog...do you all think this is true or not? I have tried incredibly hard with him, and it would be so sad to not be able to get another chance. *Explain your situation, explain that you talked to a breeder about your issues, and what kind of puppy you were looking for and unfortunately the puppy has blah blah blah issues and after trying to work through them you realized that you just aren't capable of handling them. 
Don't rehome unless the breeder won't take the dog back. Cause a new breeder you talk to would not be happy if you just rehomed the dog without talking to the breeder and trying to return him back. If the breeder won't take the dog back, then regular rehome,
and the new breeder will realize that you weren't dealing with the best breeder and will probably be more understanding of the dog having issues you can't handle due to subpar breeding*


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I'm training Noelle to be a service dog. Noelle is a smaller poodle than a standard, being sort of an in-between size. She's 20 pounds, and a good size to help me deal with my disabilities. Mostly, she works as a diabetes alert dog. 

When I looked for a poodle, I searched for a breeder who had placed therapy dogs and was proud of his therapy dogs. He had also donated puppies to service dog organizations and they had successfully completed the program and become service dogs. I avoided any breeder that said anything about agility because I can't take care of a high energy dog. 

After I found my breeder, I let him know what I was looking for: a calm, stable, even tempered pup who was happy to follow the rest of the pack of puppies. Middle pup in the middle of the pack with a middle temperament. Not too forward, not to shy. Not too tough, not to fearful. 

My breeder selected a puppy for me. When I went to his house to get my puppy, I had pick of the litter. As soon as I sat down, I was mobbed by three puppies right away. They came flying at me, and flew away to play with each other. The fourth puppy to greet me climbed in my lap. I set her down to meet other puppies. I think there were seven or eight in this litter and I wanted to say hi to all of them.

While I was trying to meet other puppies, puppy number four climbed back in my lap. Every time I set puppy number four aside, she came back to my lap. The fourth puppy to greet me was the puppy my breeder chose for me. The fourth puppy to meet me is Noelle. 

When I took her to the vet for her first exam, the vet was astounded by how even tempered Noelle is. She's got a very quick recovery from startle, which is essential for service dogs. At some point, someone is going to throw a glass bottle in a metal trash can one inch away from your dog's ear. Your dog must not freak out over this clanking noise. They will be bonked with a shopping cart, and bumped by a stranger. Instant, or near instant, recovery from startle is critical for SD's. 

Your SD candidate must have low body sensitivity, because it will be bonked by someone's backpack at some point. A stranger's child is going to grab your dog. If the dog freaks out when roughly handled, this will not work. 

I worked with a service dog for 13 years before I got Noelle, so I understood the demands the real world places on a dog. So, I had a very clear picture of the puppy needed. Nature had to build me a stable foundation and I am glad I found Noelle. 

Nature and nurture are both part of shaping the puppy into a service dog. The dog you have now isn't suitable, and you already know that. When approaching a breeder, let them know you had to wash out your SD in training, even though you tried. Your nurture couldn't overcome what nature created, so you had to wash out your dog. Given your commitment to training, when you find the right puppy I believe magic will happen. 

Noelle is a sweet dog. She snuggles me awake in the morning. She also likes a little space. Middle of the cuddly/not cuddly spectrum. Middle pretty much describes Noelle. Middle size, middle disposition. Noelle is, how can I put this, delightful. Noelle is sweet, gentle, fun, and adaptable. If I want to play ball outside, we can do that. If I want to go for a walk, we can do that. If chemo has me stuck in bed all day, we can do that. She adapts herself to me and my needs. My poodle's temperament is joyful, full of fun and frolic, and yet dignified and sensitive.

One thing I super, really, totally love about working with a poodle SD is her reaction to strangers is aloof. Noelle doesn't want to go out in public and make friends with everyone. At the same time, if someone wants to say hi, Noelle melts into their petting and enjoys the attention. So, I have this combination of a dog that doesn't solicit attention, but adores attention when it happens. Noelle was my Christmas gift December 2015. Her registered name is Gave Great Light. It's a lyric from the song the First Noel. And Noelle gives me great light every day. 

If you want to follow along with Noelle's progress toward becoming a SD, check out this thread.
http://www.poodleforum.com/23-gener...21474-diabetes-alert-dog-training-update.html


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

*The intelligent dog.*

Some people are of the opinion that an intelligent dog is easier to train than a lesser intelligent one. This is not true. The standard poodle is an intelligent dog and a handful for an experienced handler to train. Many dogs as puppies are head-shy. This is often because they are not human socialized enough when very young. They only socialize with their siblings and humans are different and need time to assimilate. The dog will accept a pat on the flank or backside but will avoid head contact. This slowly becomes less as the dog learns how humans show affection and the dog will copy. Standard poodles are an excitable breed. When young they will react and become exited extremely quickly. Their head spins and they hear nothing and just react. Later with time and training they will slowly become calmer. Some become very calm. Biting and mouthing is a common problem during the assimilation phase. 

You need help in order to train this dog. The dog is too young to need a behaviorist but needs an experienced trainer. You were not properly prepared for the task at hand and you should either re-home/return the puppy or elicit aid from an experienced trainer. Preferably one who knows standard poodles. They can be a placid, highly intelligent and valued family member but they can be a REAL handful as a puppy. Seek help. You have done well to start here.

Eric.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I agree with much of what has been said above.

That said let's assume that this dog is successfully re-homed. I don't see any reason for you not to get another standard puppy, but make sure that you find a breeder who will have the right general temperament for your needs in their lines. Starting with some reasonable level of confidence that the temperament will be right and with a puppy that has no issues is more likely to get you to the point where the dog is able to provide the assistance you require.

Eric is right that smarter doesn't particularly equate to easier to train. It means the dog will pick things up and remember them more readily if properly trained. However if smart dogs are left with too much time to come up with their own ideas about things they show their propensity to be evil geniuses.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Everything said about poodle puppies is true. I like the term EricWD9 used, Handful. Yes, they are a handful. One thing that helped me was realizing poodles are very similar to gifted children. https://www.nagc.org/resources-publ...mon-characteristics-gifted-individuals/traits

If you go through that chart and eliminate the obviously human abilities, you're left with a creature that's very similar to a poodle.

Keen power of abstraction
Interest in problem-solving and applying concepts
Persistent, goal-directed behavior
Creativeness and inventiveness
Keen sense of humor
Intuitiveness
Flexibility
Unusual emotional depth and intensity
Spontaneity
Boundless enthusiasm
Impulsive, eager and spirited

That's a poodle. A genius, and sometimes an evil genius. Realizing that poodles are like gifted people helped me tremendously.


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## AnnD (Jul 5, 2017)

Mysticrealm-thanks for your responses, I appreciate it! I have talked to the breeder about returning him to her. 

Click-N-Treat-Wow! It sounds like you have a really special relationship with Noelle (love her name btw). I read a bit of your thread on training, and its really interesting and very inspirational! Is it okay if I PM you about something?

Ericwd9- It was actually recommended to me by others to get a behaviorist to look at him and do another temperament test, so I did. And I do have a trainer, and have had two other trainers. Are there specific training methods that you recommend? I didn't think it was going to be all rainbows and butterflies having a puppy (especially an intelligent one) but all the others who have been talking to me (and the trainers I work with) seem to think its more than him just "being a puppy." I am not trying to come across as confrontational at all just so you know, but I am just curious as to how you would be training a puppy like him. Or are you saying you think most poodle puppies are like him and I will never be properly prepared for the task, even with another puppy/dog? 

Liily cd re- Thanks for the info as well, that's very helpful to know!


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## Beautiful Blue (Apr 24, 2017)

What did the breeder say about the prospect of returning him? 

Truthfully, if you are able to start fresh with a different dog, I would go with a different breed. I love my poodles...am on my 3rd Standard and my older granddaughter has a miniature. Love so much about them. And you know I'm no expert, just a pet owner.

The most difficult to reign in was the first. She was the brown clown - I think haphazardly bred - and had compulsions that were almost impossible to overcome. Some good, some very much not! 

But your expectations and needs from this dog are your own...not mine. If you can get a pup from a breeder whose dogs' temperaments and train-ability are a known - I would be more confident in a happy outcome down the road.


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## AnnD (Jul 5, 2017)

Beautiful Blue- She said I could return him if I needed to, but that I could also rehome him with permission. I had a lot of reservations about him from the very beginning, but whenever I contacted her she was not helpful/understanding....it has been tough.
Thanks for your honesty about the breed. Do you have a breed you might recommend?


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## Beautiful Blue (Apr 24, 2017)

What I'd really love for you to have is a different poodle...one that is well bred, and from the home of a good breeder who socializes and broadens the horizons of her puppies, selected from the litter by a knowledgeable breeder specifically for your needs, acquired by you at about 9 weeks of age. 

Click N Treat's post says a LOT!

If you don't need a strong, large dog...my friend has a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel that is the Definition of a little Love Bug Snuggler!

I have heard that (surprisingly, to me) greyhounds make good therapy dogs. And beagles. There are drawbacks to all. 

I wish you lived down the street from me and we could go back in time 3 months. My re-homed Rio would be the dog for you!!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I don't know just from a forum post if a poodle is the right breed for you, but can share my opinion on the answer to these questions:

I was hoping to get some insight into general poodle temperament and what is "normal." Like, are they cuddly?: My experience is that they like to be close at all times but still want their own space, so not touching or anything. 

How much exercise on average?: A lot. I look for very active owners who like to go hiking and do lots of outdoor stuff on a regular basis with their dogs as opposed to mostly hanging around the house pet people. I can hike 9-10 miles with mine and they are ready to keep going. They do have an off switch at home, but they are happier when they are getting what they need. I don't consider poodles to be a laid back, calm breed, although some are that way. 

How are they with strangers?: It depends. Anywhere from aloof and uninterested to outgoing is within breed standard. I've seen some who are fearful, though. If you do get a puppy, it's important to expose them to as many different people as you can and ensure they have a positive experience each time all before they hit 12 weeks. If you get an adult, you can see how they are with strangers.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Service dogs are my passion. The training of them, the proper handling, socializing and manners makes a huge difference in the life of a person with a disability. I would not be here without Honey my former dog, and Noelle my SDiT. Feel free to PM me with any questions.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

*Like, are they cuddly? *

Mine are extremely cuddly! Maizie was too busy as a puppy, but now she snuggles against my body at night and during the day. Frosty is a love too, and always has been. 

*How much exercise on average? * 

Tons, but mine are both young. I let them run off leash at a park, I walk them about a mile several times per week as well, and they play in my large yard together. I also work on training them throughout the day in small sessions. 

*How are they with strangers?* 

Mine are _extremely_ friendly. They have never met a stranger! Maizie is a registered therapy dog who thrives on meeting new people--that's her passion in life. Frosty is not quite as outgoing, but he's still sweet and will even lean on someone he just met for cuddles. No snootiness with these two!

*Also, do you think I should try to find an adult poodle (like 2+ years) instead of going with a puppy? If so, how would I go about doing that? 
Or even a mini?*

I would definitely look for a young adult spoo first. If you can't find one (and they're hard to find), look for breeders who breed for calm, tractable temperament. Frosty's breeder, Rock'nRolla, is one of those. 

*On another note, I'm also very concerned that if I re-home him I'll have a hard time finding a breeder/someone who will be willing to give me another dog...do you all think this is true or not? I have tried incredibly hard with him, and it would be so sad to not be able to get another chance. *

I'm sure breeders would get a good sense about you, as I have from reading your posts. I really do think they would be happy to give you another chance.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

AnnD said:


> Mysticrealm-thanks for your responses, I appreciate it! I have talked to the breeder about returning him to her.
> 
> Click-N-Treat-Wow! It sounds like you have a really special relationship with Noelle (love her name btw). I read a bit of your thread on training, and its really interesting and very inspirational! Is it okay if I PM you about something?
> 
> ...


You would not be the first prospective owner who has rejected this puppy. I would say the puppy is confused and possible frightened. Who would know what the first owner did with this puppy? The breeder is aware that there were problems with the first try. As a person new to puppies you have taken on someone else's failure. This is a difficult situation for an experienced trainer. Add to that the nature of an intelligent standard poodle puppy who might well have been abused by someone ignorant in training recalcitrant puppies and you have a potential disaster. It sounds very much like the breeder has not been honest with you and has palmed off a reject from a previous home. Who knows what the history of training for this puppy has been?

It sounds like you have covered most bases. With a behaviorist and three trainers you must have had a lot of advise. I hope not too much of that advice was conflicting. I would hesitate to give specific advice for a dog I can not meet. It sounds like the consensus of the advise, you have been given, is that the puppy has specific problems that might preclude it being a suitable subject for a support dog. I have only the least idea of the real problems but I suspect that the puppy was not properly socialized with humans when in the early development stages. Breeders can either be too busy or not have the family around to socialize a puppy and will pass it on to a home where it is expected that it will be socialized later. This does not always work out. A puppy who has spent most all of its time with its siblings is dog socialized and will treat humans it meets as it did its siblings and adult mother. This means a lot of mouthing and competing for food. Fighting for ascendancy in the hierarchy of puppies and rough house play take a while to train out. After this it went to its first home where it was rejected. Why was this and how did they treat the puppy? If this was a child (and children are not so very different) there might be action taken considering maltreatment and abuse.

Just adapting to humans rather than puppies takes a while and can slow training down a lot. As with all training consistency and patience are the most important aspects. Standard poodles do not respond well to negative reinforcement and will rebel. Positive reinforcement often works well as does "clicker training". This is your first puppy. Training is time consuming and needs to be spread over several _short_ sessions each day If you find you can not devote the time and patience needed or that the behavior of this puppy is beyond your abilities, consider an older dog of 18 months to 2 years that needs a home. Ensure that it has been socialized and trained.

Eric.


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## Beautiful Blue (Apr 24, 2017)

Please let us know how things work out as you go forward.


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## AnnD (Jul 5, 2017)

Okay, I see what you mean Eric, thank you for explaining further. 
I will let you all know what I do as I go forward. I appreciate all your well thought out responses. It gives me a lot to think about, and has also been encouraging to me because I felt so lousy that I was thinking about rehoming him. 
I'll be in touch!
Thanks


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

AnnD said:


> Okay, I see what you mean Eric, thank you for explaining further.
> I will let you all know what I do as I go forward. I appreciate all your well thought out responses. It gives me a lot to think about, and has also been encouraging to me because I felt so lousy that I was thinking about rehoming him.
> I'll be in touch!
> Thanks


Don't feel lousy. You have done all that anyone could in the circumstances. Re-homing might be the way forward if the dog has been mistreated in it's past. The breeder accepted the dog back from the first owner he was placed with. She should also do so with you. Did you know the puppy had been rejected by a previous home?

Eric.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

AnnD, I just want to add that cuddling can be taught to dogs, as a command. We used to do it all the time with service dogs, and to a lesser degree with therapy dogs. The easiest way is to 'capture' the behavior when it occurs, label it, praise/reward the dog. For less relaxed dogs you may have to guide them into position, label it, praise/reward the dog. My Wilson was a prime example of a non-cuddler. I worked with him for two fifteen minute periods per day.I remember at first, that I said it was like trying to hold a basket of snakes. Tenacity paid off, though. By the time Wilson was nine months old, he would flop into my lap and lay there like a rag, rubbing his head back and forth...gently. I could also have him lay on his side for grooming. Wilson was extremely energetic, bouncing four feet into the air for sport. Some of the service dog teams wanted their dogs to lay on top of them on the bed, or across their legs. All theses things can be taught with the same procedure. For therapy work, we had a few dogs that did not really care for people. We taught them to "Give love" on command. The dogs would walk up to clients and very gently rub their heads up and down on the clients arm/legs/chest, depending on where they were signaled to "love". Mind you, these dogs were not stressed by strangers they were just aloof. Knowing the "give love" command made them much better therapy dogs, and the clients were thrilled.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I don't have a Spoo, I have a Tpoo with tons of issues, but that's another story...

I do have a chronic illness though and I just wanted to share my thinking about getting a new dog. Unfortunately I have allergies too, which complicate things, but since you don't, there is a whole world of dogs out there waiting for you !

My criterias for a dog, as someone with a chronic illness :

- Must not require too much care (I keep my grooming at a minimum)
- Must not require a lot of exercise
- Must not tire me with excitability (heavy body jumping on me, loud barking)
- Must be perfectly happy not going on regular walks (I have a big backyard)
- Must not be too heavy to lift if need be

Since my dear Chihuahua passed away recently, I have been really looking for the best dog for me. And after a lot of consideration, my favorite dog was the Greyhound. It fits all criterias except the last one. And saving a retired Greyhound was very appealing to me. There are tons of adoption videos on Youtube and they are all marvelous.

Greyhounds are very easy dogs and they are perfect for first time owners. Contrary to what people think, they don't need a lot of exercise and the rescues happily place them in small appartments, even 2 of them. They are true couch potatoes ! 

If you're interested in them, find the Greyhound rescue nearest you. You won't find them in regular shelters. Also it's relatively easy to get one, thousands of them need new homes when they retire from the track, regularly. And they retire young, 2-3 years old.

I didn't go for a Greyhound for fear of being allergic and breaking my heart and the dog's. But I really recommend you look into this breed for yourself.


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## Beautiful Blue (Apr 24, 2017)

Dechi said:


> I don't have a Spoo, I have a Tpoo with tons of issues, but that's another story...
> 
> I do have a chronic illness though and I just wanted to share my thinking about getting a new dog. Unfortunately I have allergies too, which complicate things, but since you don't, there is a whole world of dogs out there waiting for you !
> 
> ...


And I have some knowledge of the Tucson Arizona Greyhound Rescue...this is from their website. They have one wonderful dog being sent to train for service work.


"If you are looking for a service dog, please email [email protected] "


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## AnnD (Jul 5, 2017)

Eric- Thank you for being so nice about it, and reassuring me about not feeling lousy. Also, I did not know that he was returned as a puppy. The breeder told me were that he was "spoken for" until I got him. It was not clear to me at all that "spoken for" meant he had gone out at 7 weeks and was living with another family. I just thought someone else had put down a deposit and that they backed out, making him available again. I didn't find out till I picked him up, which at that point I had already paid a non-refundable amount for him. 

Charmed-thanks for the info about cuddling, that makes sense! That would be something to work on if I decide to keep him  

Dechi- I don't have allergies to dogs, so I think a greyhound would be fine!

Beautiful Blue-do you mean they have a dog someone is training for someone else right now?


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## Beautiful Blue (Apr 24, 2017)

AGR Available Hounds

They have a large, retired male that they have determined would be a good service dog and he has been accepted in to their Heartfelt Hounds Program. Name is Kip


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## oooo (Jul 18, 2017)

*Story of my 7mo reactive apartment-living standard poodle*

Hi AnnD, I just registered so I can reply to your post. *I really can relate to what you are going through right now since I have been in a very similar situation recently.* I am a first time dog owner, live in big apartment complex (dog park nearby), asked for the calmest, laziest, not barking pup in a well-bred litter (after month of research and waiting). And still life does not happen as planned, I had to delay his pick up date. Picked at at 4 month old, he totally missed early socialization to city life and was barking/lunging at any thing upon arriving (I could not even turn on sound on my cellphone for a few days, nor watching TV, or even cough without him go nuts).

*I cannot give any suggestions since I am not a professional trainer and I do not know your pup, but I want to share my story with my reactive pup just so you know you are not alone. It is possible to tough through, but it is also not a bad decision to re-home. *I would say do not be too harsh to yourself. I toughed through the 3 month with him and I can basically bring him every where with me now as 7 mo pup (and he is loved by neighbors, being commented on very well behaved from time to time), but it had been INCREDIBLY HARD 3 month (crying and on edge of re-homing all the time.) I am a very emotional strong person and thought I would love training as I have cognitive psychology background and am fascinated on reading dog behaviors. But it was just PLAIN HARD, emotionally and physically, even looking back, so do not beat yourself up. 

If you decide to re-home, I truly understand your decision and sometimes it really might be better if the dog can find a home which could handle the issue. I know how stressful it is to have a reactive 40+lb pup. Every potty break, there will be ton of people/dog/kid playing right outside of the building door that he reacts to(his potty area). There are also ton of people passing right at my door (live next to building gate) that he will bark his head off. His training is now eventually working out, but it would be sooo much easier and quicker if we were in a house with yard. I cannot find any good positive trainer specialized on this issue in my area so I read a dozen of books about it and spent HOURS EVERY DAY (more than 3) on training him. I used 'nothing in life comes free' and he got all his food from training. I got him because I need to de-stress from my job, but now I de-stress by working since training him is way more stressful:aetsch:. Most of the good books I read about reactive training needs the dog to have a cortisol break for at least a few days without him being triggered to go crazy, so his stress hormone can subsidies. Then we should be working in an empty place and re-introduce his triggers very gradually at the distance that he does not react to. However, living in apt means he gets reactive every 10 min simply because he is living with me, which makes his training crazy hard. I feel I owe him by picking him up too late because of my personal reason, so I toughed it through (so does he). But that does not mean every one should be or can be (having hours of mental/physical energy to put into a dog every day), and also not every dog can improve in an environment that does not facilitate training even if the owner tries hard. If my pup had been less resilient, or I had any more things going on in my life, I seriously think we would not have made it (I simply is not able to provide the proper training environment described in the book no matter what I do) and he would better stay with some one who has big yard (so pup is not reactive and on high alert constantly) and can do proper training so he does not stuck this way.

For your question on whether spoo pup might be the fit (getting another spoo pup), I want to say my pup is from a very good breeding and some of his siblings are now training to be therapy dogs, but he still can be barking/lunging at very thing. When I visited him during his 5-12 weeks, all the pups are very social/out going/playful, love strangers/cuddle, not mouthy at all, and can handle alone/storm/loud machine/cat no problem. He was treated well and right at the breeders place with great temperament (easily passed therapy dog test when little) and is the not barking one in the litter (still is very quiet except his alarm bark). But from what I read while training and experienced from him, poodle makes great watch dogs, which means they can be cautious and alert on ANY potential threat and alarm barks. Missing good early social gets my seemingly perfect confident pup go nuts on every thing. For him, a piece of paper on the grass was worth lunging/barking (he is not afraid of paper, nor grass), because he remembers : yesterday, there was no paper on this piece of grass. And because he is so smart, he notices and alarm barks at EVERY thing that is outside of his tiny dictionary of 'normal world'. He is even by no means a fearful pup, he can run over repeatedly and calmly face a super loud grass mower car driving direct at him outside of dog park fence so he can sniff it. I think the barking training for spoo (when to bark, when do stop) would be harder than say a breed that does not likes to alarm bark by gene and would rather uses avoidance as a fear reaction strategy.

He is not hyper among spoos, very calm and very well behaved indoor with minimal training, laying around all the time (mid-energy in his litter). My friends like him a lot and commented he is old-dog like calm/sweet (when not reacting). But when he is up, he is *UP*. (I heard similar description about spoos from other owners.) He turns ON/OFF very easily. Now, he is one of the most playful dog in his daycare and he can play hard for 5 hours straight. Then if I bring him out, he can still gets into this crazy excitement of wanting to play, but sleeps like a rock or laying around for almost 20 hour straight if I stay indoor. His emotion is INTENSE and in his dictionary, the only way to express is barking/lunging. When he was fearful of every thing, he barks/lunges. Now when I finally convinced him that strange dogs/people can be fun, he barks/lunges because he is too excited to greet/play. (Now, more training on being calm/contained.)

For the fear grooming thing you mentioned, he never saw a scissor before I got him so he did not let it near him. Well, after I gained his trust (a week or two for him to settle in), I just show scissor/treat, move near a little/treat...touch his shoulder/treat...He thought it is a game and got happy when I pick up scissor in a few days. Then I can give an empty air clip/treat, etc.Now he does not mind whatever I do with him on grooming. It just takes a crazy amount of patience and hours of playing stupid scissor-gets-food game. 

As big a flaw his overly emotional is, his good parts are also 'big'. I never thought of a puppy could NEVER mouth people no mater what, could stop humping after a few no, never jumped on furniture after a few off, and lying quietly if I am working/eating/sleeping. One of the reason I stuck through was I feel that is just what puppy is. Like people kids, they have flaws and if it were not barking/lunging, I would still be dealing with some thing else. I knew puppies are a lot of work and really thought through what I can provide (fetch daily training etc) just like you did, but I never knew it would be this hard until I actually live in it. He just opened my mind of how much work, love, faith, and sense of duty (if not in mood of love), it can be to properly raise a pup. There are times I just want to escape from my home so I do not need to see him. I could be desperately crying and then jump up get myself appears to be all fun/hyper the moment he kicks his potty bell, so that I can trick him to be playful to not be as reactive during his potty break.

I do feel an already trained adult dog would be better for you if you need a large breed dog as service dog. A large breed (strong puller), smart (easily bored), energetic (can go on forever), fun (way too excitable) pup can be hard. Every dog is different and I believe some have 'flaws' that is easier to deal with, but puppies just needs to be taught every thing from scratch, which I took for granted when seeing other people's dogs. If I can choose again, I would do the small LOW-ENERGY pup whom were bred to be cuddle with owner for hours on couch and not barking by gene (like already suggested king charls spaniel), whom I can tired out easily and will not cause much a scene even if barking/lunging.


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## AnnD (Jul 5, 2017)

oooo-I feel like your pup and housing situation is very similar to mine! He is pretty intense outside, like you talk about. I think the main difference is that you sound like you have quite a bit more energy than I do. I really wish I had more energy and could tolerate stress better, because similar to your dog, he is pretty laid back (for a puppy) in the house. He just has so many fears outside our home, and with my low energy and his higher needs, I just am leaning towards it not being the best match for either of us long term. I think what I am worried about is him ending up bouncing from home to home. BUT 
I am meeting with a poodle rescue this week to talk about their process and what it would look like if I decided to re-home him through their program. They said I would likely be able to have contact with the new owner if I wanted to as well.
It's just really sad.


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## oooo (Jul 18, 2017)

AnnD, yes. Training a reactive high energy pup is just sooo hard. My old knee injury started hurting, besides all the body ache, because of training him. And he brought me so much stress/anxiety the past three month and I did not even get many moments of seeing his cuteness because I was just so worn out by him emotionally. I am a calm person and should have gotten a small low energy dog. I love walks and have no problem bring him to community dog park for fetch. If his problem were not reactivity, but potty train or chewing, things would be totally ok. But reactivity is just so hard to deal with, especially as first time owner. Re-home had crossed my mind like a million times. Who knows why and how I pulled this through. I am now in the middle of not crazy in love, nor super stressed out (just matter of fact most of time) and just hoping things will get better after he gets 1 year old like others' said. 

But barking outside at strangers/dogs is actually his only problem (otherwise super good as a puppy, cuddly, house trained, no biting) so my stress level might be lower than yours (thinking： I just need to train this ONE problem then we are good dozen times a day) and get recharged a little when he is cuddly. If he have not improved recently, I do not think we could continue living like this and he would be better off stay in a home outside of city and be a WONDERFUL dog.

Sounds like you are near on figuring out what to do. If your pup can find some one who is equipped and committed to train s/he through the reactivity, (and you know he/she gets bonded with them and being treated well) hope it can be easier on you. I actually googled get through re-home dog sadness and read through those posts when things were really tough for us. Who knows why I did not proceed contacting breeder for rehome...Maybe it is as hard as continue pulling through. Please keep us posted no matter what you decide.


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