# Certain testing…share or not to share? That is the question!



## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm not one of our breeder members but this is a link to the threads that IVDD has come up in.
(10) Search results for query: ivdd | Poodle Forum

Same but for CDDY (there may be some crossover)
(10) Search results for query: cddy | Poodle Forum

If I'm the one to catch the member who posts a question about assessing a breeder, or asking about any testable condition, I tell them what to look for in the testing, where to find it, what to ask, why it matters, why any health info should be transparent not only from breeder to buyer, but from breeder to the general public, what to look for in contracts and guarantees. I'm not the only one.

These are the standards I tell any member to expect from a conscientious breeder:

_As a Breeder, I_

_Plan each breeding selectively toward the goal on improvement of the Poodle, not purely for financial gain_
_Keep accurate records as per AKC rules and regulations_
_*Test all breeding stock , as appropriate, for each variety’s genetic and acquired disorders*_
_*Remain abreast of new genetic testing available and readily participates in current genetic studies*_
_Never intentionally allow a Poodle to be bred to any other breed_
_Screen prospective buyers or individuals with whom a dog is placed_
_Provide a written contract for all interactions involving the breeding, selling, co-owning, placing and rehoming of my stock_
_Sell puppies with individual records to include:_
_A Bill of Sale stating the conditions (terms) on which the sale was made_
_A Pedigree of at least 3 generations_
_Up-to-date health record_
_*Proof of genetic/acquired condition testing ***_
_A reasonable time frame for a return_
_Never release a puppy before 8 weeks_
_Sell non-breeding quality puppies with limited registration_
_Require all non-breeding quality puppies sold to be neutered/spayed_

_Assume responsibility for the well-being of all dogs sold including taking back adults in emergency situations and finding homes for rescues that have been identified from my breeding when possible_
_As part of my selection as a member of PCA, I acknowledge the responsibilities inherit in that membership and pledge to follow the Code of Ethics of the Poodle Club of America. In addition, if I find I am no longer willing to abide by this document, I agree to submit my resignation form PCA.

** this is of course re the testing of the parents_

_Code of Ethics - The Poodle Club of America_

Whatever testing you do, including that beyond the OFA/CHIC recommendations, should be made public, and disclosed to buyers.

Chondrodystrophy (CDDY and IVDD Risk) and Chondrodysplasia (CDPA) | Veterinary Genetics Laboratory (ucdavis.edu)

Paw Print Genetics - Chondrodystrophy (CDDY and IVDD Risk) with or without Chondrodysplasia (CDPA) in the Poodle

If you also still sell with full registration and don't make this info known that will just perpetrate the issue. Full reg should be only be granted when the breeding parents have been proven to add something to improve your line specifically and the poodle breed overall.
"_Breeding programs should exist for the betterment of the breed. Each member will plan their breeding program to maintain and intensify the virtues of type, quality, temperament, and eliminate faults. All breeding shall be done selectively towards this goal and not purely for financial gain."_

Whether a carrier only or affected, this _does not_ require any external trigger to become a life altering or life ending issue. The condition precedes and progresses with or without any external injury.

*Causes of IVDD in Dogs*
_Intervertebral Disc Disease is a gradual, age-related, degenerative process that affects the spinal cord of the dog over a period of time. 

IVDD occurs when the shock absorbing discs between your dog's vertebrae gradually begin to harden until they are no longer able to cushion the vertebrae normally. The hardened discs often go on to bulge and compress the spinal cord, in many cases damaging the dog's nerve impulses such as those that control bladder and bowel control.

In other cases, a simple jump or poor landing can lead to one or more of the hardened discs bursting and pressing into the nerves of the dog's spinal cord causing pain, nerve damage or even paralysis.

Degenerative disc disease causes spontaneous degeneration of the outer part of the disc, resulting in sudden disc rupture or herniation (also called a "slipped disc"). It may not be related to injury, although the rupture frequently occurs after some sort of traumatic event, such as a fall or a relatively small jump.

Although this act is frequently blamed for the disc rupture, the injury actually occurred due to chronic disc degeneration. Most dogs with degenerative disc disease are middle-aged, from three to seven years old. There is likely a genetic predisposition to this disease. Certain breeds, especially the Dachshund, Poodle, Pekinese, Lhasa Apso, German Shepherd Dog, Doberman, and Cocker_ _Spaniel have a high incidence of intervertebral disc disease._


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

GBGP said:


> The AKC Toy Poodle breed club only suggests patellas done.


Do you have a link to that club? I'm happy to learn something new but I don't think the AKC has or sponsors any breed clubs. The official parent breed clubs are independent of the AKC but they do cooperate. The Poodle Club of America is the official breed club. They determine the recommended testing and work with OFA in the CHIC certification program. 

Testing for poodles as determined by the PCA is

_HEALTH TESTING IN POODLES 
To help ensure the future health of Poodles, good breeders screen prospective Poodle parents with tests available for primary health issues in our breed. The Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) and the Canine Health Information Center (CHIC) work with parent clubs to establish important screening criteria, and the following are tests needed to receive a CHIC number for each Poodle variety. 
Where noted, the PCA Foundation also recommends other DNA tests, some just recently developed as researchers identify faulty genes that cause disease. 
Eye exams to detect hereditary problems should be done yearly until an age suggested by your veterinary eye specialist. 
For more on poodle health, go to www.poodleclubofamericafoundation.org.

TOY POODLES 
DNA Test for prcd-Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA) from an OFA-approved laboratory. 
Yearly Eye Exam by a boarded ACVO veterinary ophthalmologist.
Patellar Luxation: OFA Evaluation. 

MINIATURE POODLES 
Same CHIC requirements as Toy Poodles with the addition of: Hip Dysplasia: OFA or PennHIP Evaluation. 
The PCA Foundation strongly recommends the DNA test for Miniature Poodle Dwarfism (Osteochondrodysplasia) to avoid breeding two carriers to each other and producing puppies affected with this deforming and crippling disorder. Research suggests that about 10 percent of Minis carry the mutation that causes this disease and that it is not limited to a few bloodlines.

STANDARD POODLES 
Hip Dysplasia: OFA or PennHIP Evaluation. 
Yearly Eye Exam by a boarded ACVO veterinary ophthalmologist. 
Health Elective (at least one of the following three tests is required for CHIC number): 
OFA Thyroid Evaluation from an OFA approved laboratory. 
OFA Sebaceous Adenitis (SA) Evaluation by an OFA approved dermatopathologist. 
Heart Evaluation by an ACVIM boarded veterinary cardiologist. 
The PCA Foundation recommends all three electives for Standard Poodles and also strongly recommends the following DNA tests from an OFA listed lab to easily avoid breeding two mutation carriers to each other and producing affected puppies: DNA Test for Neonatal Encephalopathy with Seizures (NEwS) and DNA Test for vonWillebrand’s Disease (vWD).

Note: A CHIC requirement across all participating breeds is that the dog must be permanently identified via microchip or tattoo in order to qualify for a CHIC number _

poodle_health_screening_2020.pdf (netdna-ssl.com)
Health Concerns - The Poodle Club of America

CHIC Program | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)


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## curlflooffan (Mar 27, 2020)

My breeder shared her embark results with me. Including the positive result for the CDDY gene. Naturally it freaked me out but upon researching it I found out how widespread the gene is in the small poodles and how the research in poodles for this gene variation is in its infancy. 

That did reassure me. 

It has been known that small poodles have a higher risk for IVDD. With these new gene variant we simply know why. 

Although it was scary I am glad that my breeder disclosed. It reassured me of her honesty and allowed me to also alert my vet. I can also be alert to any clinical signs (although my breeder has been breeding for 20 years without a case of IVDD). 

I think honesty is the best policy and its up to you as the breeder to help potential owners to understand the results and what the current recommendations for breeding is. 

As DNA testing becomes more sophisticated breeders will be faced with more and more complex dilemmas like this.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Are you asking if you should post the results on OFA, or are you asking if you should share the results with your potential puppy buyers? I personally like the idea of sharing the information, but I certainly understand your concerns.

If you do provide results to your own buyers, I think you should do it with an explanation about how common the gene is in the population (very), the effects on the carriers (in many cases, none), and what it would do to the breed if we culled all carriers (devastation.)


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

cowpony said:


> If you do provide results to your own buyers, I think you should do it with an explanation about how common the gene is in the population (very), the effects on the carriers (in many cases, none), and what it would do to the breed if we culled all carriers (devastation.)


Good point cowpony. There is still a lot to learn about the effects and the prevalence of the incidence thru toys and miniatures alike. Not breeding isn't the answer. There might not be a breed left. One of the authors of the latest study I can find 
Current Understanding of the Genetics of Intervertebral Disc Degeneration (nih.gov) 
offered this article 
Managing the Genetics of Chondrodystrophy (CDDY) | Veterinary Genetics Laboratory (ucdavis.edu) 
with strategies for testing and breeding.

excerpt
_*Recommendation on Genetic Testing:*

For purebred dogs, where sufficient number of dogs have been tested, and the allele is fixed (in other words the frequency is 1.00) it is reasonable to assume that all dogs in that breed will be homozygous for CDDY and therefore genetic testing is not necessary because the genotype and therefore risk of disease is known in these cases. However, in breeds where the allele is present but not fixed it is recommended to have your dogs tested and consider the breeding counseling advice presented below.

*Counseling:*

Since this mutation is dominant, dogs with a single copy of the mutation will have abnormal intervertebral discs.

In a recent study by Batcher and colleagues (Batcher et al. 2019), investigating 569 dogs, no difference in the age of surgery in dogs with 1 or 2 copies of CDDY was identified. Disc herniation with just 1 copy of CDDY was common across breeds including mixed breeds. As expected based on the well-defined types of disc herniation (Hansen Types I, II and Type III), chondrodystrophy is not the sole cause of disc herniation in dogs. In this study, 75.2% of the dogs that had surgery had chondrodystrophy. Since some of the breeds identified in this study segregated the CDDY mutation, the relative risk for disc herniation was calculated. It varied from 5.5 (Chihuahua) to 15.1 (mixed breed). This means that a dog with 1 or 2 copies of CDDY is 5-15 times more likely to have a disc herniate then a dog without the mutation.

Based on the dominant nature of the mutation and the high allele frequency within some breeds selection against CDDY should be done cautiously. Breeds with a lower allele frequency (defined here as <0.25) can use the genetic test to select away from the CDDY allele in one generation. It is recommended that breeds with an allele frequency in the range of >0.25, <0.5) select away from this mutation over several generations and to mate dogs with CDDY to dogs with two copies of the normal allele to reduce the allele frequency without a dramatic effect on breed diversity. Breeds with a high allele frequency (>0.5) will benefit from a much slower approach over multiple generations. There are some breeds that only have CDDY and no normal chromosomes in the breed and are thus said to be fixed for this trait, in these breeds all dogs test as CDDY/CDDY. It is not possible to breed away from this trait within breeds where the mutation is fixed._


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## GBGP (Aug 3, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> Do you have a link to that club? I'm happy to learn something new but I don't think the AKC has or sponsors any breed clubs. The official parent breed clubs are independent of the AKC but they do cooperate. The Poodle Club of America is the official breed club. They determine the recommended testing and work with OFA in the CHIC certification program.
> 
> Testing for poodles as determined by the PCA is
> 
> ...


Yes, thank you! It was the Poodle Club of America I looked at for what else to test for. I do way more than it suggests. I do all testing available so I can selectively breed for the betterment of the breed. I am still learning and love the knowledge you all provide. It is greatly appreciated. Wonderful info and links!


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