# Toy Poodle vs a Maltipoo



## Ava. (Oct 21, 2020)

Size --> . - You will not know how big a mutt will get. I've seen "maltipoos" ranging from 20m-34cm.. toy poodles should not be any taller 25"cm, mostly they range smaller than that.
Separation anxiety --> - toy poodles are not known to have separation anxiety tendencies. If you get a toy from a reputable breeder, they should have stable temperaments.
Health - of course. --> - I do not know of a SINGLE doodle breeder who does the appropriate health testing. I know several toy poodle breeders who do.


As far as "fading syndrome" I have never heard of it before. I know lots of breeders, so immediately I am confused. I googled it and "*Fading* Puppy *Syndrome* is not a specific *disease* or diagnosis, but a description of signs that may be due to environmental factors, *genetic* causes or infectious agents. It is used to describe a puppy that appears normal at birth, but “*fades*” - fails to grow and thrive during the first weeks of life."... I don't think a puppy should just die, especially due to environmental causes. Most reputable breeders don't experience many puppy deaths


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

Thank you so m


Ava. said:


> Size --> . - You will not know how big a mutt will get. I've seen "maltipoos" ranging from 20m-34cm.. toy poodles should not be any taller 25"cm, mostly they range smaller than that.
> Separation anxiety --> - toy poodles are not known to have separation anxiety tendencies. If you get a toy from a reputable breeder, they should have stable temperaments.
> Health - of course. --> - I do not know of a SINGLE doodle breeder who does the appropriate health testing. I know several toy poodle breeders who do.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much!! This is so helpful. I agree with you. Yes, she said the puppy did not exhibit any signs of illness and then at around 3/4 weeks just passed away. Odd!!! Thank you for replying.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I think it's impossible to tell how a mixed breed will end up, either physically or temperament wise. So if you want to know what dog you’re getting, get a purebred. Poodle or other. My opinion on « doodles » is that they are scams : mutts with a fancy name to make more money. Not so long ago these dogs were given for free or sold for 50$.

Poodles in general are not dogs who do well when left alone for too long because they are very close to their humans, but any well adjusted dog will tolerate being alone sometimes, as long as you get them used to it early and correct problems if need be. This is not just a poodle thing; any dog has to be taught.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Welcome, @ScoobyDoo1992! And I’m sorry to hear about the loss of your newborn puppy:

Here is a detailed analysis of fading puppy syndrome:









Causes of fading puppy and kitten syndrome


Chances are that you have been presented with puppies or kittens that have failed to thrive, some of which have eventually died.



www.dvm360.com
 




As you can see, it’s not all that uncommon and can be the result of myriad factors.

But I still think you’re best to go with a small preservationist breeder, who is going to ensure you’re getting the best traits of your desired breed. For more information on what to look for in a toy poodle breeder (including appropriate health testing), this site was recently recommended in other thread for buyers in the UK: Champdogs Guide to Buying a Puppy


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Mine visit work regularly


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## thiisismegan (Jul 22, 2020)

I don't know much about Maltipoos, but I have a very similar lifestyle to what you described, and added a toy poodle to my life late last year. She has been nothing more than an angel and any dog will add so much love and happiness to your family. Even with a toy poodle, size is unpredictable...her parents were both in size, about 7-8 pounds and she is still sitting at 3.5 pounds lol. I guess it is what it is! Good news is she has flown on a plane 4 times in less than 6 months and has been so easy to manage. I have no problem leaving her alone, even though she is very attached, although I do have resources for a sitter if she is home all day. Even though she is so small, she was spayed at 6 months, and recovered more easily than all my friends dogs. She hasn't had any health issues whatsoever, although I hear teeth can be an issue with the small babies and joints-- you can do your best to go with a reliable breeder to prevent that, but ultimately health issues can arise in even what seems to be a healthy puppy. Again, I know nothing about maltipoos, but I can say based on my experience a toy poodle would be a great fit for your needs.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Since Maltipoo is on your "definite maybe" list, I'm wondering why you haven't also mentioned looking at pure Maltese. I've met some that were quite lovely little dogs.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

twyla said:


> View attachment 473890
> 
> View attachment 473891
> 
> Mine visit work regularly


Love those pictures. especially the 'hey, I'm down here' one.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

I have had 4 mixed breed dogs in my life. Two were cocker spaniel/poodle mixes, and both were fantastic dogs. One, though, had major health issues, but she lived a very long life. The last 2 poodles mixes in my life had major personality/behavioral and health issues. One was a rescue and the other came from a breeder. My maltese/poodle mix is still living, and I love him dearly, but I would never go the route of getting a poodle mix again, unless from a rescue. It would be very challenging to find an ethical "maltipoo" breeder. Why not research the maltese and poodle breed and determine which breed would be best for you? You might also look into the havanese breed.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Hi and Welcome!



ScoobyDoo1992 said:


> My min pin was a big dog in a small dog's body so he is not IMO a true TOY breed. That thing had the energy of a big dobermann.


See if this might suit for big dog energy in a small body 









Toy Poodle takes Super Saturday by Storm! | Wow! This Toy Poodle just took Super Saturday by storm, in the Team Agility Small Final! Watch #Crufts 2017 LIVE on YouTube here - http://bit.ly/2mJg7W3 | By Crufts | Facebook


157 тыс. views, 2,7 тыс. likes, 367 loves, 536 comments, 1 тыс. shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Crufts: Wow! This Toy Poodle just took Super Saturday by storm, in the Team Agility Small Final!...




fb.watch











Poodles are very people oriented but as mentioned, early training to accept absence is key.

It seems that maltipoos might have the same people orientation.

"Maltipoos are highly affectionate and would make a great choice for a novice pet parent. However, they’re highly sensitive and do not like being left alone for long periods of the day. As companion dogs, they crave the company of their humans and may develop separation anxiety when they don’t get the attention they need. But if you can provide a loving home that meets this mix’s needs, you’ll have an adoring family member who can dish out plenty of cuddle sessions.

Dog Breed Group:
Hybrid Dogs
Height:
8 to 14 inches tall at the shoulder
Weight:
5 to 20 pounds
Life Span:
10 to 13 years
Maltipoos are a popular cross of the Maltese and Toy or Miniature Poodle.

Before buying a Maltipoo, it's important to research the health concerns that affect both the Maltese and the Poodle. Both parents should have health clearances from the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals for patellas (knees) and thyroid and from the Canine Eye Registry Foundation (CERF) certifying that the eyes are normal, including a DNA test for progressive retinal atrophy (PRA). (The Kennel Club will have it's own health testing standards, but are likely similar.)

Because some health problems don't appear until a dog reaches full maturity, health clearances aren't issued to dogs younger than 2 years old. Look for a breeder who doesn't breed her dogs until they're two or three years old."









Maltipoo Hybrid Dog Breed Information, Pictures, Characteristics & Facts – DogTime


"Maltipoo" Maltese/Poodle mixed dog breed information including pictures, training, behavior, and care of Maltipoos. Meet this affectionate, low-maintenance hybrid breed!




dogtime.com







Resources you may already have, but jic.

*United Kingdom

The Kennel Club*

*  The Kennel Club | Welcome to The Kennel Club website  *
We are the UK’s largest organisation devoted to dog health, welfare and training. We work to ensure dogs live healthy, happy lives with responsible owners.
www.thekennelclub.org.uk

*Kennel Club UK Health Testing Guidelines*
Potential dog owners should be aware that, at present, the application of various health screening results to breeding programmes is not always straightforward, and breeders may make choices for various reasons. A responsible breeder though, will always be willing to discuss relevant health issues with you. Breed clubs are often useful sources of breed-specific information.

*





Poodle (Toy) | Breeds A to Z | The Kennel Club


Characteristics, health and breeding details of the Poodle (Toy), to help you decide if this breed is right for you.




www.thekennelclub.org.uk




**Priority health schemes and tests*

The Kennel Club Assured Breeders must use the following (or equivalent) schemes, tests and advice. All other breeders are strongly advised to also use these.

Eye screening scheme (BVA/KC/ISDS)
DNA test - prcd-PRA (find a list of clear, carrier or affected dogs)
*Important health schemes and tests*

We strongly recommend that all breeders, both assured breeders (ABs) and non ABs, use the following (or equivalent) schemes, tests and advice.


Check inbreeding calculators
*Other health schemes and tests available*

Linkage test (DNA based) - Prcd-PRA (find a list of clear or carrier dogs)


*Breeder Listings*

*All UK*

*Champdogs

Champdogs Guide to Buying a Puppy*

 *Pedigree Toy Poodle Puppies for Sale - Champdogs ®  *
Find the best Kennel Club Registered Pedigree Toy Poodle Puppies at Champdogs - The pedigree dog breeders website.
www.champdogs.co.uk


*Kennel Club UK Find a Puppy*





Find a puppy | The Kennel Club


Want to buy a puppy? Search for pedigree puppies or rescue dogs for sale near you. Browse ads from reputable breeders.




www.thekennelclub.org.uk





*Kennel Club Assured Breeders*





Find a Kennel Club Assured Breeder | The Kennel Club


Search our database by breed and location to find a Kennel Club Assured Breeder in your area.




www.thekennelclub.org.uk






Look for "The Poodle Club of (your country, region, city). They may have breeder referral folk to help your search.

I found these searching for The Poodle Club UK






Headed Breed Standard | Uniting the Poodle Clubs Of Great Britain | Poodle Council


, Poodle Council, Uniting the Poodle Clubs Of Great Britain




www.poodlecouncil.com










The Poodle Club


Find Contact Details for The Poodle Club at Champdogs.



www.champdogs.co.uk













Toy and Miniature Poodle Club UK | Facebook


This group is primarily for toy & miniature poodles; poodle crosses/other breeds/species are fine as long as they are chaperoned by a poodle and not promoted as a breed. No advertising of mixed or...




www.facebook.com


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## mandy1010 (Feb 13, 2021)

ScoobyDoo1992 said:


> Hello there,
> first of all, thank you to everyone for posting here, such an amazing community.
> So, I (28, Female, no kids) am looking to get a toy poodle... or a maltipoo. I know this will cause a visceral reaction in many if not most - people seem to get angry even at the mention of the poodle crosses and I get it. I will list what I am looking for and prepared to give to my furry friend, and let me know if you have any thoughts or advice at all
> What matters:
> ...


 I was going through the same dilemma toy poodle versus Maltipoo, I did a bunch of research and realized if I wanted to know exactly what I would be getting a pure breed would be better, so I went with a toy poodle, also if you are traveling and want to ensure it would fit in cargo, which is something I requested as well, I would go with a toy poodle. Just be careful the smaller the toy poodle the more fragile and easily they can break their bones and legs, so just be careful about the weight and height in reference.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

I suspect a Maltipoo's coat would mat very, very easily. I really do not like to see people doing crosses like that.


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## curlflooffan (Mar 27, 2020)

Of course I am biased toward the poodle. But you have a lot of options with your requirements. Toy poodle, Maltese, yorkshire terrier. Also some rarer breeds like Bolognese. I met one once when living in the UK. I went to the KC annual event I think it was called 'meet the breed' or something. A huge event with lots of breeds so you can meet them and talk to the breeders to help you pick which breed fits you. It helped me narrow down to poodle. Its a shame that it no longer happens due to Covid. I think going to that might help you. 

Regarding SA. That is primarily a training issue. Now all of the small companion breeds are going to be more prone to this because they are bred to be around people. But with proactive effort from day one you should be able to leave for 3 or 4 hours. I have never been told that a poodle cant do that. If a breeder has such SA in their line then I would avoid them regardless, that seems odd to me.

On a general point. When getting a mix, only do so if you love all of the aspects of all breeds in that mix. If you think that a breed does not fit your circumstances then dont get a dog that is 50% that breed. If toy poodles really are so much more likely to have SA then a poodle mix is also going to have that risk. 

A mix is a random combination of both breeds. It doesnt magically get just the good parts from both sides. I speak from experience here. Not a poodle mix but a labrador x border collie from my childhood. We wanted a lab but couldnt afford a purebred. Got a lab mix hoping it would be more lab than collie, we were very mistaken and the dog ended up rehomed. I have never had the guts to investigate what happened to him after he left us but I highly suspect that he was euthanised young.


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

Dechi said:


> I think it's impossible to tell how a mixed breed will end up, either physically or temperament wise. So if you want to know what dog you’re getting, get a purebred. Poodle or other. My opinion on « doodles » is that they are scams : mutts with a fancy name to make more money. Not so long ago these dogs were given for free or sold for 50$.
> 
> Poodles in general are not dogs who do well when left alone for too long because they are very close to their humans, but any well adjusted dog will tolerate being alone sometimes, as long as you get them used to it early and correct problems if need be. This is not just a poodle thing; any dog has to be taught.


I agree with you. All dogs especially the smaller ones need to be taught to be alone, I was just thinking if poodles are _especially_ prone to having separation anxiety, but sounds like the overwhelming consensus is, no. 
Regarding doodles, true, it's a big trend. But on the flipside, if they are THAT popular, isn't there something to it? i.e. Isn't there a reason for the popularity? The way the doodle breeders position these dogs are hypo allergenic dogs, poodle's intelligence + cuddliness of the maltese/cavapoo (best of both worlds), less likely to have health isses given the gene crossing, etc etc. Is that all a load of BS?


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Welcome, @ScoobyDoo1992! And I’m sorry to hear about the loss of your newborn puppy:
> 
> Here is a detailed analysis of fading puppy syndrome:
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your reply! This was an interesting read. Sounds like it is definitely something that can happen, so maybe not totally the breeder's fault. But I agree, pure bred is probably the way to go.


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

T


Rose n Poos said:


> Hi and Welcome!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you, what a comprehensive guide! I've already been browsing the Kennel Club but the rest is also much appreciated. In your view, if both parents are extensively health testes and KC registered (i.e. the maltese, and the toy poodle), wouldn't that "guarantee" that the maltipoo pups are therefore healthy and be effectively the same health wise as getting a pure bred? Or at least reduce the likelihood of genetic diseases? Say if all the generations of the maltese, and all generations of the toy poodle are healthy, why would there be unhealthy pups?
Oh and the video made my weekend  Thank you!


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

Johanna said:


> I suspect a Maltipoo's coat would mat very, very easily. I really do not like to see people doing crosses like that.


Yes, seems like they do mat easily... is that why you don't like these crosses?


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

twyla said:


> View attachment 473890
> 
> View attachment 473891
> 
> Mine visit work regularly


So cute!!! Thanks for sharing


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

T


mandy1010 said:


> I was going through the same dilemma toy poodle versus Maltipoo, I did a bunch of research and realized if I wanted to know exactly what I would be getting a pure breed would be better, so I went with a toy poodle, also if you are traveling and want to ensure it would fit in cargo, which is something I requested as well, I would go with a toy poodle. Just be careful the smaller the toy poodle the more fragile and easily they can break their bones and legs, so just be careful about the weight and height in reference.


Thank you, that's really helpful. Did you end up going for the toy poodle?
Something that I am seeing in some online forums/reviews is that the maltipoo tends to be more "cuddly" because of the maltese genes (a truer lap dog), but then people tell me toy poodles love to cuddle too...for the most part. 
Re being smaller, is your recommendation to not go for an extremely small one then? I know people breed teacup poodles, they seem so tiny


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

thiisismegan said:


> I don't know much about Maltipoos, but I have a very similar lifestyle to what you described, and added a toy poodle to my life late last year. She has been nothing more than an angel and any dog will add so much love and happiness to your family. Even with a toy poodle, size is unpredictable...her parents were both in size, about 7-8 pounds and she is still sitting at 3.5 pounds lol. I guess it is what it is! Good news is she has flown on a plane 4 times in less than 6 months and has been so easy to manage. I have no problem leaving her alone, even though she is very attached, although I do have resources for a sitter if she is home all day. Even though she is so small, she was spayed at 6 months, and recovered more easily than all my friends dogs. She hasn't had any health issues whatsoever, although I hear teeth can be an issue with the small babies and joints-- you can do your best to go with a reliable breeder to prevent that, but ultimately health issues can arise in even what seems to be a healthy puppy. Again, I know nothing about maltipoos, but I can say based on my experience a toy poodle would be a great fit for your needs.


Thank you, this is so helpful! Do you mind if I ask you a few more questions? Are the plane travels easy? Does she get nervous when flying / is it easy to put her in the bag? It was hard with my previous dog, he was extremely nervous. Is there anything you don't like about your little girl? Do you feel she is easy to train and does she love to cuddle?
Wow 3.5 pounds is tiny but I guess she is still so young!!


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

cowpony said:


> Since Maltipoo is on your "definite maybe" list, I'm wondering why you haven't also mentioned looking at pure Maltese. I've met some that were quite lovely little dogs.


So I think Maltese are a little too relaxed for me... Poodles are meant to be a lot more energetic, so the mix at least on paper seems ideal - a calm, cuddly maltese + an intelligent and loving and energetic poodle. I also love the wavy poodle coat....


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## Mr.Ziggy (Jul 14, 2020)

ScoobyDoo1992 said:


> So I think Maltese are a little too relaxed for me... Poodles are meant to be a lot more energetic, so the mix at least on paper seems ideal - a calm, cuddly maltese + an intelligent and loving and energetic poodle. I also love the wavy poodle coat....


With a mix you could get all the the genes you want. Or all of the genes you don't want. Anyone who tells you that you will get all the good and none of the bad is lying to get your money. 
Good breeders are doing it to better the breed. Mixes are not a breed and their breeders are just in it for the money and will tell you whatever you want to hear. It may turn out well, it may not.


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

Dogs4Life said:


> I have had 4 mixed breed dogs in my life. Two were cocker spaniel/poodle mixes, and both were fantastic dogs. One, though, had major health issues, but she lived a very long life. The last 2 poodles mixes in my life had major personality/behavioral and health issues. One was a rescue and the other came from a breeder. My maltese/poodle mix is still living, and I love him dearly, but I would never go the route of getting a poodle mix again, unless from a rescue. It would be very challenging to find an ethical "maltipoo" breeder. Why not research the maltese and poodle breed and determine which breed would be best for you? You might also look into the havanese breed.


Thank you. This is helpful. Why do you feel like you wouldn't go down the maltese/poodle mix again? Is it because of health issues? I guess what I am trying to wrap my head around is, if both parents, say, are extensively health tested, and so were their parents, then why would the mixed offspring have health issues? Is the issue here that the "maltipoo" breeders do not do these health tests, or that even if the parents are health tested there can still be health problems? The mixed breed breeders even go as far as to say the mixed offspring will have LESS issues vs a purebred dog so I am quite confused.....


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

curlflooffan said:


> Of course I am biased toward the poodle. But you have a lot of options with your requirements. Toy poodle, Maltese, yorkshire terrier. Also some rarer breeds like Bolognese. I met one once when living in the UK. I went to the KC annual event I think it was called 'meet the breed' or something. A huge event with lots of breeds so you can meet them and talk to the breeders to help you pick which breed fits you. It helped me narrow down to poodle. Its a shame that it no longer happens due to Covid. I think going to that might help you.
> 
> Regarding SA. That is primarily a training issue. Now all of the small companion breeds are going to be more prone to this because they are bred to be around people. But with proactive effort from day one you should be able to leave for 3 or 4 hours. I have never been told that a poodle cant do that. If a breeder has such SA in their line then I would avoid them regardless, that seems odd to me.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply!
I love either a curly coat (Poodle), or a thin one (min pins, dachshunds, etc), but not the long fluffy ones like Maltese, Bolognese, Even a Yorkie. Somehow those breeds don't appeal to me at all. So maybe that indeed is an indicator to go for toy poodle vs maltese/poodle mix if I don't particularly love the maltese component of it....
Sorry about your childhood experience. So sounds like the main issue with the mixes is that you don't know what you're getting? If the parents are healthy etc, you may still get a great dog but you just don't know which way it will sway in terms of looks, personality etc?


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## Mr.Ziggy (Jul 14, 2020)

ScoobyDoo1992 said:


> Thank you. This is helpful. Why do you feel like you wouldn't go down the maltese/poodle mix again? Is it because of health issues? I guess what I am trying to wrap my head around is, if both parents, say, are extensively health tested, and so were their parents, then why would the mixed offspring have health issues? Is the issue here that the "maltipoo" breeders do not do these health tests, or that even if the parents are health tested there can still be health problems? The mixed breed breeders even go as far as to say the mixed offspring will have LESS issues vs a purebred dog so I am quite confused.....


If you think you have found a breeder of a mix that does ALL of the appropriate health tests, feel free to post them here! I know a lot of folks have been searching for years for a mix breeder that does all the right health tests and have not been able to find one. This is because folks who breed mixes are in it for the money.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

These designer mixes 
Neither parent will be the best example of it's breed because a good breeder will not allow that to happen.
I am on the bad side of mixed, I inherited a chihuahua pomeranian mix, sold as a "breed", she is 15 1/2 years old, such a beautiful dog but extremely neurotic, with a lot of physcotropic drugs she is a good dog but without she is food aggressive, toy aggressive, people possessive and has bitten people and other dogs. 
I would not ever pay money to a breeder for a mixed breed, go to a shelter or rescue group.
Am I anti mix breed? Not to the dogs themselves, but the "breeders" of doodles, hybrids, designer dogs I have no time for. 
I own a dog that without meds is a lit stick of dynamite, that I cannot take most places.
I also frown on the term teacup as there is no recognized poodle size, toy poodles are small enough as it is.
Get a toy poodle from a good breeder one that health tests, my oversized show fail is not quite 6 1/2 pounds and is 11" tall, very petite boy, very healthy, beautiful and a good temperament.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Doodle breeders are like car salesmen. They are notorious in the dog world. If you go to an obedience or rally or agility trial you won't see doodles. Maybe one or two rescues. But nobody looking for a stable well bred dog would entertain the thought of a doodle. There are a few breeders of labradoodles in the US that do all health testing and title their dogs. But very very few. So far not a single maltipoo breeder has been found to complete these requirements.

People buy doodles because they are a fad, and that's it. The doodle market preys on uneducated buyers who don't research and don't have much dog experience. Doodles tend to be riddled with health issues because their parents are from puppy mills and are not health tested. A purebred from a responsible breeder would have all health testing completed on parents. So yes doodles have very poor health. Mixes often are not spared health issues as many breeds share diseases. Most small dogs are at risk from the same health issues. PRA and luxating patella run in most small breeds. So having a mix won't make it healthier. In fact, it will be less healthy as it isn't from health tested parents who were shown to be clear of disease.


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## mandy1010 (Feb 13, 2021)

ScoobyDoo1992 said:


> T
> 
> Thank you, that's really helpful. Did you end up going for the toy poodle?
> Something that I am seeing in some online forums/reviews is that the maltipoo tends to be more "cuddly" because of the maltese genes (a truer lap dog), but then people tell me toy poodles love to cuddle too...for the most part.
> Re being smaller, is your recommendation to not go for an extremely small one then? I know people breed teacup poodles, they seem so tiny


yeah i went with a toy poodle, i have spoken too many many many breeders and i don't advise for a smaller toy poodle cause you risk them easily getting hurt they're so small and tiny and fragile you have to be extra cautious. I do recommend the normal conformation which good breeders stand by promoting healthy breeds with the correct ratio. I did look at tiny toy poodles because they're adorable but sometimes the risk outweighs the cost, so decided to look for a toy poodle with the correct height and weight. If you are looking to walk your dog out a tiny toy poodle you should be extra cautious, for me i am looking for a pet that is small enough to travel and still be able to run around a bit. Those were my priorities. I didn't get a maltipoo cause my sisters best friend had recently bought one from a breeder than 9 weeks later he passed away due to pneumonia and complications and it steered me away from mixed breeds cause i wasn't sure of the outcome and i like knowing lineages, blood lines and health of the sire and dam and so forth, but that is me i like knowing a lot cause i'll be investing 12-15 years in my puppy. I recommend talking to various breeders and getting there suggestions it only cements your vision of what you want in the long run. Hopefully this helps you out in your seach!


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

ScoobyDoo1992 said:


> Yes, seems like they do mat easily... is that why you don't like these crosses?


I do not like crosses because they are almost always scams. People who are reputable breeders work hard to breed to the standard and to breed out hereditary health issues. Reputable breeders do not cross-breed, they concentrate on improving their chosen breed. I doubt any of the people breeding poodle crosses have much knowledge of the dogs behind their breeding stock. Some of them do not even know the grandparents of their dogs, let alone the health history.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Raindrops said:


> Doodle breeders are like car salesmen. They are notorious in the dog world. If you go to an obedience or rally or agility trial you won't see doodles. Maybe one or two rescues. But nobody looking for a stable well bred dog would entertain the thought of a doodle. There are a few breeders of labradoodles in the US that do all health testing and title their dogs. But very very few. So far not a single maltipoo breeder has been found to complete these requirements.
> 
> People buy doodles because they are a fad, and that's it. The doodle market preys on uneducated buyers who don't research and don't have much dog experience. Doodles tend to be riddled with health issues because their parents are from puppy mills and are not health tested. A purebred from a responsible breeder would have all health testing completed on parents. So yes doodles have very poor health. Mixes often are not spared health issues as many breeds share diseases. Most small dogs are at risk from the same health issues. PRA and luxating patella run in most small breeds. So having a mix won't make it healthier. In fact, it will be less healthy as it isn't from health tested parents who were shown to be clear of disease.


Raindrops, you are so right! Those are all very serious issues.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

mandy1010 said:


> yeah i went with a toy poodle, i have spoken too many many many breeders and i don't advise for a smaller toy poodle cause you risk them easily getting hurt they're so small and tiny and fragile you have to be extra cautious. I do recommend the normal conformation which good breeders stand by promoting healthy breeds with the correct ratio. I did look at tiny toy poodles because they're adorable but sometimes the risk outweighs the cost, so decided to look for a toy poodle with the correct height and weight. If you are looking to walk your dog out a tiny toy poodle you should be extra cautious, for me i am looking for a pet that is small enough to travel and still be able to run around a bit. Those were my priorities. I didn't get a maltipoo cause my sisters best friend had recently bought one from a breeder than 9 weeks later he passed away due to pneumonia and complications and it steered me away from mixed breeds cause i wasn't sure of the outcome and i like knowing lineages, blood lines and health of the sire and dam and so forth, but that is me i like knowing a lot cause i'll be investing 12-15 years in my puppy. I recommend talking to various breeders and getting there suggestions it only cements your vision of what you want in the long run. Hopefully this helps you out in your seach!


Good for you, Mandy. I hope your careful research pays off in years of companionship with your new puppy. Please keep us up to date.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

ScoobyDoo1992 said:


> The way the doodle breeders position these dogs are hypo allergenic dogs, poodle's intelligence + cuddliness of the maltese/cavapoo (best of both worlds), less likely to have health isses given the gene crossing, etc etc. Is that all a load of BS?


Yes, I think it is. When you cross two breeds, the offsprings aren’t necessarily going to have the genetics you want from either parent. Some « doodles » shed hair, some don’t, some have curly hair, some have flat hair. Some have the temperament of one of the parent and some have a complete different temperament. I think the best testament to that is the creator of the labradoodle admitting creating this mix was a huge mistake and even called it a « Frankenstein monster ». Talk to groomers and they will tell you many doodles are a nightmare to groom because they are so hyper.









Labradoodle creator says he regrets 'Frankenstein's monster' - CNN


The creator of the Labradoodle cross-breed has said he inadvertently unleashed a "Frankenstein('s) monster".




www.cnn.com





Creating a breed is not taking a male and female from two different breeds and giving it a new name. It takes generations to do and it has to be done by knowledgeable people. Mrs Smith crossing her female with Mrs Rose’s male is not cutting it...


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

Mr.Ziggy said:


> With a mix you could get all the the genes you want. Or all of the genes you don't want. Anyone who tells you that you will get all the good and none of the bad is lying to get your money.
> Good breeders are doing it to better the breed. Mixes are not a breed and their breeders are just in it for the money and will tell you whatever you want to hear. It may turn out well, it may not.


Thank you. That makes sense. I am so glad I did my research before going for one of the crosses although I almost did. I guess there's a chance it would be fine, but if it isn't, I don't want a high vet bill nightmare and more importantly the grief of a really sick dog.


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

Dechi said:


> Yes, I think it is. When you cross two breeds, the offsprings aren’t necessarily going to have the genetics you want from either parent. Some « doodles » shed hair, some don’t, some have curly hair, some have flat hair. Some have the temperament of one of the parent and some have a complete different temperament. I think the best testament to that is the creator of the labradoodle admitting creating this mix was a huge mistake and even called it a « Frankenstein monster ». Talk to groomers and they will tell you many doodles are a nightmare to groom because they are so hyper.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for your perspective. Actually just read about this guy today! So interesting. I hadn't appreciated how hard breeding is, not just putting A and B together. So glad I posted here, a few months ago I was so torn among all the different doodles and now I am totally off them....


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## thiisismegan (Jul 22, 2020)

ScoobyDoo1992 said:


> Thank you, this is so helpful! Do you mind if I ask you a few more questions? Are the plane travels easy? Does she get nervous when flying / is it easy to put her in the bag? It was hard with my previous dog, he was extremely nervous. Is there anything you don't like about your little girl? Do you feel she is easy to train and does she love to cuddle?
> Wow 3.5 pounds is tiny but I guess she is still so young!!


I am not a poodle expert by any means, but I think "cuddliness" can vary based on the individual dogs personality. Our family dog is a 14 year old toy poodle- she will not sit or relax anywhere other than touching a human body (unless she is left alone which she happily does for 6+ hours) whereas my toy poodle puppy voluntarily lounges anywhere *but* my lap lol. I don't mind at all- in fact prefer she doesn't need to be physically attached to me at all times so I can work-- it wasn't something that I considered when choosing a pup though. As far as plane travel, she doesn't get nervous at all, has never had an accident (although I always take her potty on the plane but she never goes) never makes a peep in the bag, and is very very happy in her bag-- she surprises me every time! I didn't do anything special...other than I think that her first flight was at 10 weeks and she has flown multiple times since. She has been super easy to train, I have no clue how I got so lucky. She actually tends to be 'easier' and more relaxed when we are out and about than at home. Regardless of which direction you go, I am sure you will be happy. It's hard not to love them for exactly who they are once you bring home your pup.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

ScoobyDoo1992 said:


> if both parents are extensively health testes and KC registered (i.e. the maltese, and the toy poodle), wouldn't that "guarantee" that the maltipoo pups are therefore healthy and be effectively the same health wise as getting a pure bred? Or at least reduce the likelihood of genetic diseases? Say if all the generations of the maltese, and all generations of the toy poodle are healthy, why would there be unhealthy pups?


The testing is not going to cover every possible health issue for any breed.

Every established breed, and therefore also crosses between two breeds, will have known health issues. Some of these issues are significant enough to become life-altering or worse. Some issues are evaluated thru physical exams, x-rays and such (phenotype testing) and some are DNA testing for affected or carrier genes for specific conditions (genotype testing).

If the maltese parent tests clear/good/normal for the conditions the maltese may develop and was tested for, any pups are very unlikely to inherit those conditions from the maltese. 

If the poodle parent tests clear/good/normal for the conditions that poodles may develop and was tested for, then their pups are very unlikely to inherit those conditions from the poodle.

This doesn't mean that the pups can't inherit something that wasn't tested for. This doesn't mean that maltese and poodles have the same known health issues that are tested.

Not every health condition can be tested for, not at this time anyhow. Someday, maybe. Until or unless that level of testing is available, there will be a chance that something might be inherited. Testing is like having insurance for the tested conditions.

"Healthy" actually needs to be defined to answer these questions better. As far as generations of dogs having been "healthy", if the definition of "healthy" is that no dog in the lineage has ever developed one of the conditions that can now be tested, it would be unusual for those pups to develop any of those conditions, but it could happen. This is what breeders depended on before the types of testing now available came to be.

This is the real life example I use. My house used to have a wood shingle roof. This made my house susceptible to fire from lightning or fireworks hitting the roof. I replaced the roof with a composition shingle material making a fire from those sources very unlikely. My house can still catch fire but it's not likely to be from a lightning strike or burning fireworks on the roof.


Using OFA criteria as an example there is a "cleared by parentage" possibility.

_"What does “clear by parentage” mean?

OFA records results of approximately 120 DNA tests, all of which are currently “direct mutation” tests, meaning that the test results are 100 percent accurate and not subject to interpretation. For direct mutation tests, OFA will clear by parentage for one generation.

That means that if both parents have been DNA tested clear for a disease, OFA will declare offspring clear by virtue of the fact that the parents tested clear. However, there are a few requirements to clear by parentage.

1.) As mentioned, both sire and dam must have tested clear, and those test results must be on record with OFA.

2.) The sire, dam and the offspring to be cleared must all have been DNA identity profiled, and DNA profiles must be on record at OFA.

Once those requirements are met, the owner of the offspring to be cleared will fill out the application for DNA Based Genetic Disease (available on the OFA website), writing “clear by parentage” in the blank line at the top of the form, and submit the form with the $15 OFA processing fee. That’s it—your dog is now cleared by parentage for that disease.

The resulting certification will have a suffix of CBP, indicating that the dog itself was not tested and that the clearance is based on the sire and dam’s test results. OFA will only clear by parentage for one generation, due to the possibility of new mutations or as yet undiscovered gene mutations.

Bear in mind that DNA-based screening is an evolving science, and OFA policy is subject to change as technology and science advance._


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> The testing is not going to cover every possible health issue for any breed.
> 
> Every established breed, and therefore also crosses between two breeds, will have known health issues. Some of these issues are significant enough to become life-altering or worse. Some issues are evaluated thru physical exams, x-rays and such (phenotype testing) and some are DNA testing for affected or carrier genes for specific conditions (genotype testing).
> 
> ...


Thank you, this makes a ton of sense. So it's my understanding that the doodle breeders don't even do the appropriate tests for the known diseases, and adding the uncertain factor of unknown ones, plus nature at play, the outcome may be quite bad. I am so glad I posted here as I am skipping all doodle breeders like a rock now!


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

thiisismegan said:


> I am not a poodle expert by any means, but I think "cuddliness" can vary based on the individual dogs personality. Our family dog is a 14 year old toy poodle- she will not sit or relax anywhere other than touching a human body (unless she is left alone which she happily does for 6+ hours) whereas my toy poodle puppy voluntarily lounges anywhere *but* my lap lol. I don't mind at all- in fact prefer she doesn't need to be physically attached to me at all times so I can work-- it wasn't something that I considered when choosing a pup though. As far as plane travel, she doesn't get nervous at all, has never had an accident (although I always take her potty on the plane but she never goes) never makes a peep in the bag, and is very very happy in her bag-- she surprises me every time! I didn't do anything special...other than I think that her first flight was at 10 weeks and she has flown multiple times since. She has been super easy to train, I have no clue how I got so lucky. She actually tends to be 'easier' and more relaxed when we are out and about than at home. Regardless of which direction you go, I am sure you will be happy. It's hard not to love them for exactly who they are once you bring home your pup.


Oh she sounds lovely  What colour did you get?


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## Ava. (Oct 21, 2020)

toy poodles and Maltese don't even have the same body structure. With toy poodles being petite, skinny, and overall small. Maltese are more heavy boned. The mixing of two, completely opposite breeds adds the risk of oddities with structure! 

Personally I think it might be harder to find more colorful toys, I personally haven't found any UKC toy breeders.


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

Ava. said:


> toy poodles and Maltese don't even have the same body structure. With toy poodles being petite, skinny, and overall small. Maltese are more heavy boned. The mixing of two, completely opposite breeds adds the risk of oddities with structure!
> 
> Personally I think it might be harder to find more colorful toys, I personally haven't found any UKC toy breeders.


It is difficult! I am in search of a red one... it's tricky. Lots of blacks, even silvers available from good breeders but a red one is harder. I may look for chocolate brown too.


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## curlflooffan (Mar 27, 2020)

When I was looking I said any colour except white or black. I was also looking for toy. Now I am on a waiting list for a black miniature haha! 

I liked the breeder the most, she does additional health tests, good results in shows but most of all the character of her dogs fit what we are looking for. Sometimes you have to compromise, just never compromise on character, health or quality. 

Also, while you should stay away from any breeder who is advertising teacup or tiny toy. I think its perfectly ok for you to tell your breeder that you have a very practical reason (the travel) for needing a small dog. That its important for you not to get an oversized toy.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Why not a maltese or toy poodle? I think you would basically get what you want with either and not necessary to mix the breed. The maltese may have a easier coat to deal with. My neighbor had one for 16 years, she was a very quiet, calm and sweet lil dog. I think a maltese is more of a lap dog, probably on the smaller side than a toy poodle.


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

curlflooffan said:


> When I was looking I said any colour except white or black. I was also looking for toy. Now I am on a waiting list for a black miniature haha!
> 
> I liked the breeder the most, she does additional health tests, good results in shows but most of all the character of her dogs fit what we are looking for. Sometimes you have to compromise, just never compromise on character, health or quality.
> 
> Also, while you should stay away from any breeder who is advertising teacup or tiny toy. I think its perfectly ok for you to tell your breeder that you have a very practical reason (the travel) for needing a small dog. That its important for you not to get an oversized toy.


Haha that's great! Glad you found a breeder you like. I have been in touch with some KC assured breeders here in the UK and WOW are they a night and day difference versus the maltipo breeder I was talking to. It's a no brainer. 
Yes, definitely no teacup. It's so crazy I saw this one instagram blogger who bought a "teacup" poodle who is so tiny and doesn't even look like a poodle to be honest and is just WAY TOO SMALL. And everyone's like oh how cute. Ugh.  She's basically promoting that it's disgusting.


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

Mufar42 said:


> Why not a maltese or toy poodle? I think you would basically get what you want with either and not necessary to mix the breed. The maltese may have a easier coat to deal with. My neighbor had one for 16 years, she was a very quiet, calm and sweet lil dog. I think a maltese is more of a lap dog, probably on the smaller side than a toy poodle.


Thanks for your perspective. I think toy poodle would be the way to go for me. I do not like the Maltese coats  And this will be weird but I associate them with old lady dogs, in my country a lot of grandmas have Maltese / Havanese dogs and I don't think I 'd like the personality, it just seems way too chill. Maybe I haven't spent enough time with them. For me, it's now either between a toy poodle, or maybe a min pin, a breeder I had before, but their characters can be tricky.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Oh dear, I am having a difficult time even posting here. IMO there are no such thing as an ethical poo cross breeder. Absolutely no top poodle breeder, or top breeder of another breed will agree to having their incredible dog cross bred. So, you are already having lesser quality dogs to be cross bred. 

I am so sorry about your puppy lost to disease, as that is heart breaking, ... but sadly I am not surprised.

Please go only with a top spoo breeder, or even with a top malti breeder. Otherwise you might as well just go the dog pound route.


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## blackcurls (Dec 15, 2009)

ScoobyDoo1992 said:


> Hello there,
> first of all, thank you to everyone for posting here, such an amazing community.
> So, I (28, Female, no kids) am looking to get a toy poodle... or a maltipoo. I know this will cause a visceral reaction in many if not most - people seem to get angry even at the mention of the poodle crosses and I get it. I will list what I am looking for and prepared to give to my furry friend, and let me know if you have any thoughts or advice at all
> What matters:
> ...


Hi Scooby
Just get the poodle. You’ll get all you want plus . You will never even contemplate another “dog”.🤩


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## curlflooffan (Mar 27, 2020)

@ScoobyDoo1992 sorry I wanted to write this earlier but I didn't have the time. 

I grew up with only large dogs and actually had very bad experiences with a small white dog as a child. I really didn't like small dogs at all. But I came to the realisation a few years back that a small dog was the most sensible choice for my lifestyle. So my research began. 

I have to say that doing internet research and meeting dogs in person are two very different things. My original list of desired breeds changed a lot when I actually met the breeds in person. I must admit that I was more attracted to the exotic and unusual appearance of the hairless chinese crested, the italian greyhound and some of the more rarer terrier breeds. I also wasn't very interested in the solid white breeds like the Bolognese. 

But then I went to this event by the UK Kennel Club called 'Discover dogs' and later to a local dog show and I ended up removing the italian greyhound and the chinese crested of my list and adding the Bolognese and the Maltese to it. It's not that they are bad breeds, just don't have the type of temperament that I am looking for. 

And I met a little Bolognese who was so delightful that it made me completely forget about my aversion to little white dogs. 

Unfortunately, this advice is not as useful during the pandemic as you can't just go to local shows or ask breeders if you can visit. But its good to keep in mind.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

It sounds as if you are well on your way to deciding on a well bred toy poodle - I don't think you will regret it. I think there are a number of reasons for the explosion of poodle mixes: the claim of non-shedding (and people being unaware that non-shedding automatically means high maintenance when it comes to grooming and coat care); the cute names; a belief that if over breeding leads to health issues cross breeding will automatically produce a healthier dog; the ease with which people can mate their own dog to a fairly random breed and, in these Covid times particularly, charge a small fortune for the pups while bypassing even such limited controls as the Kennel Club exerts over the age and frequency of the dam, amongst others. I have known some delightful crosses, and rather more that were extremely hard work, including several that were rehomed.

Good luck in your search - litters are thin on the ground at the moment, but it looks as if more breeders may have matings planned this Spring.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

It is fiction that poodle crosses with other breeds are non shedding. 'Some of them turn out to be non shedding' is the only truth.


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

ScoobyDoo1992 said:


> Hello there,
> first of all, thank you to everyone for posting here, such an amazing community.
> So, I (28, Female, no kids) am looking to get a toy poodle... or a maltipoo. I know this will cause a visceral reaction in many if not most - people seem to get angry even at the mention of the poodle crosses and I get it. I will list what I am looking for and prepared to give to my furry friend, and let me know if you have any thoughts or advice at all
> What matters:
> ...


Hi. You can check out the Poodle Rescue of CT. They recently posted a Miniature white male who's parent passed and family doesn't want to keep him.


ScoobyDoo1992 said:


> Hello there,
> first of all, thank you to everyone for posting here, such an amazing community.
> So, I (28, Female, no kids) am looking to get a toy poodle... or a maltipoo. I know this will cause a visceral reaction in many if not most - people seem to get angry even at the mention of the poodle crosses and I get it. I will list what I am looking for and prepared to give to my furry friend, and let me know if you have any thoughts or advice at all
> What matters:
> ...


The Poodle Rescue of CT recently posted an older male white minature. His parent passed away. Family doesn't want to take him. I wouldn't wait to apply if interested.


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

fjm said:


> It sounds as if you are well on your way to deciding on a well bred toy poodle - I don't think you will regret it. I think there are a number of reasons for the explosion of poodle mixes: the claim of non-shedding (and people being unaware that non-shedding automatically means high maintenance when it comes to grooming and coat care); the cute names; a belief that if over breeding leads to health issues cross breeding will automatically produce a healthier dog; the ease with which people can mate their own dog to a fairly random breed and, in these Covid times particularly, charge a small fortune for the pups while bypassing even such limited controls as the Kennel Club exerts over the age and frequency of the dam, amongst others. I have known some delightful crosses, and rather more that were extremely hard work, including several that were rehomed.
> 
> Good luck in your search - litters are thin on the ground at the moment, but it looks as if more breeders may have matings planned this Spring.


Thank you!! Absolutely agree with everything you said. There are indeed more litters coming up this spring. So you, too, would seriously advise against crosses? And yep the prices people charge for the mixes - Ive seen up to £5000 is mind boggling....


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

twyla said:


> These designer mixes
> Neither parent will be the best example of it's breed because a good breeder will not allow that to happen.
> I am on the bad side of mixed, I inherited a chihuahua pomeranian mix, sold as a "breed", she is 15 1/2 years old, such a beautiful dog but extremely neurotic, with a lot of physcotropic drugs she is a good dog but without she is food aggressive, toy aggressive, people possessive and has bitten people and other dogs.
> I would not ever pay money to a breeder for a mixed breed, go to a shelter or rescue group.
> ...


Thank you, thatis really helpful. Thanks for sharing the photos as well, I definitely welcome that cuteness in my life!!!!


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

curlflooffan said:


> When I was looking I said any colour except white or black. I was also looking for toy. Now I am on a waiting list for a black miniature haha!
> 
> I liked the breeder the most, she does additional health tests, good results in shows but most of all the character of her dogs fit what we are looking for. Sometimes you have to compromise, just never compromise on character, health or quality.
> 
> Also, while you should stay away from any breeder who is advertising teacup or tiny toy. I think its perfectly ok for you to tell your breeder that you have a very practical reason (the travel) for needing a small dog. That its important for you not to get an oversized toy.


I agree with you!! This is what I have realised; an amazing breeder matters the most, at the end of the day you will probably also be in touch with them etc.
and I have changed my opinion on the colour, I was obsessed with the red colour, but now it has become such a trend.... I want something different. Either apricot or black and I didn't want a black at all! I think black ones are cute


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Yeah! I ended up with the opposite of what I thought I wanted and have been incredibly happy about it  Keep us informed.


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## Darling Darla (Sep 20, 2020)

Poodles are fantastic although they are not for everyone. There is nothing wrong with crosses. I love all dogs. I have pure breeds and crosses. Have had all my life. The best dog I ever had was a mutt. She lived to be 16.5 years old and was never sick a day in her life. There is confusion about reputable breeders being only those who breed purebred dogs. You can test till the cows come home and still sell a puppy that will get the issue it’s parents are cleared for. I snicker at puppy ads that say one year health guarantee. Generally puppies don’t show anything till older. I provide one month free health insurance for my puppies. I am a firm believer that a person should get whatever dog they want. I know I love the 7 dogs I have and none have any health issues as of today. 5 months old to 11.5 years old and all dogs are doing great.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Darling Darla said:


> Poodles are fantastic although they are not for everyone. There is nothing wrong with crosses. I love all dogs. I have pure breeds and crosses. Have had all my life. The best dog I ever had was a mutt. She lived to be 16.5 years old and was never sick a day in her life. There is confusion about reputable breeders being only those who breed purebred dogs. You can test till the cows come home and still sell a puppy that will get the issue it’s parents are cleared for. I snicker at puppy ads that say one year health guarantee. Generally puppies don’t show anything till older. I provide one month free health insurance for my puppies. I am a firm believer that a person should get whatever dog they want. I know I love the 7 dogs I have and none have any health issues as of today. 5 months old to 11.5 years old and all dogs are doing great.


It is possible to breed crosses while using structurally and temperamentally sound breeding stock that is titled in relevant training venues and health tested to meet breed club requirements of both parent breeds. But you will find very very few breeders checking these boxes for "designer" dogs. I have seen attempts to locate even moderately ethical breeders of "malti-poos" and "bernedoodles" with zero success. There are a few labradoodle type breeders that check these boxes but they are rare. That is why I will always steer people away from these mixes when possible, even if I disregard my additional feelings on the matter.


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## 5girls1guy&apoodle (Jun 12, 2016)

I think some of the “mixes are healthier” mindset might come from old wive’s tails. My parents always said mutts were healthier and usually had better temperaments. I find it so amusing. maybe they just liked to say that since we always had mutts growing up. I’ve never had a Maltese so I can’t speak for them but my poodles are very cuddly. Even my standard all fifty pounds of her likes to lay on my lap sometimes. My toy girl climbs on the back of the couch like a cat and will then climb over my shoulder and flop down against my chest. She is so funny and very cuddly. She likes her space sometimes, but she loves cuddling. It’s so funny to watch toy poodles get zoomies too. I was so shocked the first time I saw one run. They are hilarious. I love poodles. I might be biased since we are about to get a fourth, but I love them.


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

kontiki said:


> Yeah! I ended up with the opposite of what I thought I wanted and have been incredibly happy about it  Keep us informed.


Which colour did you end up getting?


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

Raindrops said:


> It is possible to breed crosses while using structurally and temperamentally sound breeding stock that is titled in relevant training venues and health tested to meet breed club requirements of both parent breeds. But you will find very very few breeders checking these boxes for "designer" dogs. I have seen attempts to locate even moderately ethical breeders of "malti-poos" and "bernedoodles" with zero success. There are a few labradoodle type breeders that check these boxes but they are rare. That is why I will always steer people away from these mixes when possible, even if I disregard my additional feelings on the matter.


Now having spoken to a LOT of breeders, I have actually found one which breeds KC registered healthy cavaliers and KC registered healthy toy poodles. And now has decided to make cavapoos. She does extensively test all her dogs so that box would be ticked. I guess the question is - why is she doing it? Seems like just jumping on the bandwagon. So that bothers me. Also, after reading all these threads extensively, whenever I see a doodle now, I can't see them in a good light anymore, like they are a fraud somehow and just the product of people's greediness. But now I think I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I got one, even if it was from a decent place.


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

5girls1guy&apoodle said:


> I think some of the “mixes are healthier” mindset might come from old wive’s tails. My parents always said mutts were healthier and usually had better temperaments. I find it so amusing. maybe they just liked to say that since we always had mutts growing up. I’ve never had a Maltese so I can’t speak for them but my poodles are very cuddly. Even my standard all fifty pounds of her likes to lay on my lap sometimes. My toy girl climbs on the back of the couch like a cat and will then climb over my shoulder and flop down against my chest. She is so funny and very cuddly. She likes her space sometimes, but she loves cuddling. It’s so funny to watch toy poodles get zoomies too. I was so shocked the first time I saw one run. They are hilarious. I love poodles. I might be biased since we are about to get a fourth, but I love them.


Wow!!! That's a lot of poodles!!! Thank you for your input!!! Yeah I also heard mutts were healthier growing up...


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## Darling Darla (Sep 20, 2020)

There are breeders that have really nice dogs and have two different breeds. I know a lady and her daughter that breed Cockapoo in order to keep showing and running their kennel. Beautiful puppies they sell. Totally up to you on what you can live with.


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## Darling Darla (Sep 20, 2020)

I know a Doodle breeder she contacted me about poodle puppies. She decided to buy a Cockapoo to breed back to her doodle. I asked her if they will be called Cocka doodle poo puppies? She hasn’t talked to me since. 🙄😂


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

ScoobyDoo1992 said:


> Now having spoken to a LOT of breeders, I have actually found one which breeds KC registered healthy cavaliers and KC registered healthy toy poodles. And now has decided to make cavapoos. She does extensively test all her dogs so that box would be ticked. I guess the question is - why is she doing it? Seems like just jumping on the bandwagon. So that bothers me. Also, after reading all these threads extensively, whenever I see a doodle now, I can't see them in a good light anymore, like they are a fraud somehow and just the product of people's greediness. But now I think I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I got one, even if it was from a decent place.


ScoobyDoo, I think you are quite correct about those crossbreds being a fad. Poodles and CKCspaniels are so different in head, body, and coat type that any resulting crossbreds will vary wildly. Besides, there is no valid reason to cross breed other than, as you said, greed.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Darling Darla said:


> I asked her if they will be called Cocka doodle poo puppies? She hasn’t talked to me since. 🙄😂


Now THAT'S funny!😂🤣


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

kontiki said:


> Yeah! I ended up with the opposite of what I thought I wanted and have been incredibly happy about it  Keep us informed.





ScoobyDoo1992 said:


> Which colour did you end up getting?


White, of course, which would have been my last choice! Love him to bits


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Perhaps the 'mixes are healthier' idea came from seeing dogs from breeders that were in-breeding their dogs.


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

kontiki said:


> Perhaps the 'mixes are healthier' idea came from seeing dogs from breeders that were in-breeding their dogs.


Yes!!! This is what I was told as a child - purebred breeds have a number of issues bc they are overbred and so best to go with a mutt...


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## ScoobyDoo1992 (Feb 19, 2021)

kontiki said:


> White, of course, which would have been my last choice! Love him to bits


I love this!!! I used to really not want a white but now I have been looking for whites as well  The only thing I don't like there is the tear stains.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

ScoobyDoo1992 said:


> Yes!!! This is what I was told as a child - purebred breeds have a number of issues bc they are overbred and so best to go with a mutt...


And that is why it is so important to go with an EXCELLENT ETHICAL BREEDER that does not do any of those things!


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## Milohsmom (May 3, 2021)

ScoobyDoo1992 said:


> Yes, seems like they do mat easily... is that why you don't like these crosses?


Im not sure why the person said maltipoos would Matt easily. Toy poodles will definitely Matt very easily if not taken care of. I comb and brush both of my toy poodles regularly and groom them myself


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## Milohsmom (May 3, 2021)

My toy poodles stay home alone for a few hours. They do just fine. I think they do better now since they have each other. My first one had severe anxiety when he was a puppy hehe. Did not want to be left alone at all. He’s such a mature loving dog now though.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

No ethical well bred poodle breeder will allow their dogs to be bred with other breeds. Just as no super well bred Lab for instance would allow their dog to be bred to a poodle. The only 'breeders' who allow their dog to generate mixes are lesser quality dogs. 
I am quite sure that the people who love doodles/maltipoos/etc do not agree with me. I will never buy a poodle from a breeder that has allowed any of their dogs to be used to create fad non-breeds.


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