# CGC Advice



## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

After seeing Skylar "I'm So Proud" thread, I decided to ask for some help on Elroy's CGC. I'd like to work on getting Elroy (7½ months old now) more prepared for his CGC test sometime in the future. Not sure how old is a normal expectation for CGC but after he completes his "Family Dog II" class in a anther month, he will have the necessary prerequisites a per my training centers requirements. The bullets below were taken from online, so hopefully they are the actual requirements. Following each bullet is my grading of where Elroy stands on each item. If you've BTDT, please feel free to give me some advice on how to overcome his shortcomings. He's pretty good at everything, but is easily distracted. 

The CGC test evaluates dogs on the following:

Greets a friendly stranger: No. Elroy jumps up on them and give kisses. He's getting better, but he's pretty much very excited about meeting all new people (and people he knows too). He's successful sometimes on our walks. 

Sits politely for petting: Yes for me. Only after he meets/greets (see above) if it isn't me. After he's greeted and then settled with a stranger, I suspect he would pass. 

Welcomes being groomed, brushed; allows paws and ears to be handled: Yes, for me and my groomer anyway. Not sure beyond that.

Walks as directed on a loose leash: Yes, but easily distracted by (excited/excitable) people, children and dogs 

Moves politely through a crowd: Yes, but easily distracted by (excited/excitable) people, children and dogs 

Sits, lies down, and stays in place on command: Yes for me, but only after he meets/greets (see above) of it isn't me.

Comes when called: Yes, but only reliable in a training environment (when he knows he's working for treats & praise). He doesn't always come when I want him to in real life environments. Only if he wants to. Example is if he's playing in the yard or in the house, he generally won't stop playing just to come. 

Behaves politely around other dogs: No. He always has to instigate play. If the other dog doesn't want to play, he'll playfully circle, poke, and nip at them until they play (or until he gets them mad at him). If I don't actually let them meet-up, I've got a chance at getting him to sit/settle. 

Reacts with confidence to distractions: Yes, very few things startle him. Some sirens can startle him if we're close, like on a walk and they go right by us. Very loud motorcycles if close too. OK with traffic, thunder and lightning, annual fireworks (haven't been at an event, just all the local 4th of July week stuff), trains, and other common noises. 

Can be left with a trusted person: Yes. He loves it! No separation anxiety. He misses me, but he's OK with it.

Looking forward to your feedback!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Hey there Tom. I think it is great you are thinking towards a CGC with Elroy. As an age reference point, Lily (and Peeves) had just turned one and Javelin was about 15 months old when they earned their CGCs. For Lily and Peeves we took a class at my obedience club with the last night being the CGC teests. For Peeves he was always a happy pack member and he had almost no problems with any of the test items even in the training sessions. For Lily, being the social butterfly she continues to be to this day, jumping up to greet and wiggling around, licking people were all thing she had to work hard to settle down for. Even last night my assistant in the CGC/CGCA training class had Lily jumping up on her a few times. Lily loves Cathy but rarely gets to play with her and since I was working with someone else she took advantage. So those friendly traits will probably be lasting things to contend with but it doesn't mean Elroy won't learn the impulse control needed to pass.

For most people I think taking a CGC class is a great approach since you will teach the appropriate responses in the setting where you will do the test. You will also have the class instructor as the evaluator in all likelihood so you will practice not jumping up and have the person be not so strange when it comes to the actual test That said, I did not do that with Javelin. I did much of his general puppy training and virtually all of his CGC oriented training in two local big box pet chain stores. We started each new task in a quiet aisle and gradually moved to busier parts of the store. I used the space in front of the window to the doggie day care to do sit and down stays. I made sure he was comfortable in a quieter place before moving to the final proofing areas by the doggie day care and near the front of the store. I got to know the trainers in one of the stores pretty well and they helped with things like accepting the friendly stranger (they probably could have gotten in trouble for doing so if their boss had noticed). I had Javelin evaluated for the CGC at a four ring obedience and rally trial in an ice hockey arena. It was tough but he did it!

Either approach should work for you and I am sure you will be successful.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

It’s reassuring to know that the impeccably trained Miss. Lily still occasionally shows her love with poodley leaps.  

It’s such a pleasure watching you grow your relationship with Elroy, @94Magna_Tom. Does your training facility offer a CGC class? I’d love to find one near us.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Peggy I hope you can find a place to work towards the CGC. While AKC had adapted to COVID times with virtal rally and virtual trials and even some virtual obedience I understand why they haven't and won't add virtual CGC. The CGC program (for all levels) reuires some evaluator hands on and some observations of social interactions between the testing dog and people as well as the behavior of the testing dog around other dogs.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

lily cd re said:


> Peggy I hope you can find a place to work towards the CGC. While AKC had adapted to COVID times with virtal rally and virtual trials and even some virtual obedience I understand why they haven't and won't add virtual CGC. The CGC program (for all levels) reuires some evaluator hands on and some observations of social interactions between the testing dog and people as well as the behavior of the testing dog around other dogs.


Yeah, that makes sense. At almost 2.5 years old, Peggy would pass the test with flying colours some days, and fail _spectacularly_ on others. If I were to do a video submission, it would be too easy to fudge a pass.

Our trainer specializes in nosework and doesn’t offer any formal CGC training.

Tom, you’re lucky to have found such a great place to train with Elroy. Our options are certainly limited out here.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Peggy AKC has a directory of CGC evaluators. Maybe you can find someone to work with that way.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

I found a CPDT-KSA local to me who does all evaluations for a $40 fee. She also has individual training. If you think Peggy’s ready, you might be able to find an evaluator nearby.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Thank you @lily cd re for your guidance! I like the idea of practicing doggie and people greetings in public places/pet friendly stores/shops. I don't want him to pass just because he knows the instructor. I truly want the benefits of CGC, not just the ribbon. 12-15 months should be plenty of time to get him trained on the remaining issues. Today we had the town "Chile Fest" on the Green. It's also a rent a space for local vendors (think crafts fair, etc). Elroy and I attended. There were an endless supply of people (and things) to greet as well as an ample supply of leashed pooches. After he met a dozen or so people, he began to stay calm with the rest of the dozens of more meetings. He also met close up an personal with 4 new dogs, one of which he played super good with, the rest we just nosed up a bit and he was pretty well behaved! He also must have seen at least a dozen other dogs at a distance (15 ft plus) and was well behaved. A little pulling on a couple of them, but mostly just carefully ogling them. Later on during a walk, we ran into our female mailman. He's met her probably at least a dozen times and she is quite dog savvy/friendly. He didn't jump on her when greeting her, AND he even sat when she she asked him to! Very good progress, although he still had a hard time not nibbling on her loose clothing bits, nosing around her mail and pockets and other mailman implements!


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Does your training facility offer a CGC class? I’d love to find one near us.


They list the class on their website, but for dates it just says "More classes coming soon". I'll have to inquire about it after our next class.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> At almost 2.5 years old, Peggy would pass the test with flying colours some days, and fail _spectacularly_ on others.


HaHa! I think Elroy could (I said think, and could!) possibly pass on a GOOD DAY too!


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

In the meanwhile, you might be interested in the Virtual Home Manners Test. https://www.akc.org/products-servic...n/akc-family-dog-program/virtual-home-manners. 

For the Puppy version, 12 weeks to one year, it covers:

1. Allows owner to pet (head/chin, shoulders, back) 
2. Grooming - brushing by owner (back/chest) 
3. Sit on command - can use lure 
4. Down on command - can use lure 
5. Comes when called - from 10 ft in house 
6. Go to place - stay 15 seconds 
7. House-trained - owner attests, describes training 
8. Demonstrates relationship Plays indoors - w/ family member/owner (Choose 1: gets stuffed animal, ball, simple trick, preferred game, etc.)
9. Out for a walk - outside on leash (straight line - 20 ft) 
10. Exercise outside - w/ family member/owner (fetch toy, chase, swims, run with owner)

For the Adult version, 4 months and over, it covers:

1. Owner pets, then grooms dog (head/chin, shoulders, back, chest, belly; check ears and feet) 
2. Sit on command (no lure) 
3. Down on command (no lure) 
4. Comes when called indoors (from 20 ft. or another room) 
5. Manners related to food Choose 1: *_* owner has a snack *_* owner puts dog’s dish down 
6. Doorbell\knock - dog behaves appropriately 
7. Go to place/crate - stay 1 minute 
8. Demonstrates relationship Plays indoors - w/ family member/owner Choose 1: *__ hide & seek __* scent game (3 cups) *__ do a trick __* toy, stuffed animal, etc. 
9. Out for a walk Do both: *_* leash on, calmly exit door *_* walk on loose leash 
10. Exercise outside - w/ family member/owner Choose 1: *__ fetch or catch disc/toy __* other: *____*

I would try it with my dogs, but well, they take their of of alarm system a bit too seriously, and anyone knocking on the door is met with a cacophony of barking.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Tom, I am impressed with your evaluation of Elroy so you know what you need to work on. From your class you should have learned how to train it… but if you are having problems, post back and PF can help.

Wait til you finish your class because maturity plays a role. One month makes a huge difference. Theo for the longest time was a major pogo stick when cued to sit or lay down. He goes down so quickly, you would miss it if you blinked, and back up on 4 paws just as quickly. I kept working on him staying seated or down for longer and longer… it seemed to take forever but recently I started to see progress. Progress built on progress so now I can leave him seated and walk across the room and back or do a recall. I’ve also made progress on duration too … Novice Obedience has a long sit or down where you walk 6 ‘ away and my pogo stick is now keeping position for 1 minute. I do a little training on this every evening.

I have a friend who encourages Babykins to jump up on her and groan, if Babykins really likes you she will jump with excitement. With strangers she sits nicely. I think it’s a poodle trait. Get lots of strangers to pet Elroy while you treat him sitting. No treats if he stands or jumps. Keep the treats coming fast while he’s sitting so he doesn’t have a chance to think about moving. 

In your classes aren’t the instructors brushing Elroy? Bring them a brush or comb of Elroys to use. I brought Theo’s comb because it’s his favorite. The test is a quick brush on the side, they aren’t spending much effort or time to really groom your dog.

I spent a lot of time working on attention and getting Theo to focus on my hand with nose taps. He heels following my hand. All treats come from this hand. I also speak to him when walking, telling him he’s a good boy or watch it if he’s not looking. Work on keeping his attention when you walk. Do it in short sessions. The test is walking among dogs and people in the classroom so it’s back and forth a few times. This is different than a long walk outside with distractions. Focus on a short walk. With maturity and practice he will build to a long walk.

Sits, lies down, and stays in place on command … go lots of places and practice this …. Your dad’s house, the park, street corner. Practice everywhere will make this a solid behavior so he’ll do it for the exam.

I practice “come” multiple times a day all over the place. Come never ends something fun, Theo is always released to go back to fun. We do come all over the the house even into dark rooms or with me hiding. One game dogs love is you toss a treat a couple of feet away with your dog watching then send them to get it. Call come and have your legs spread apart and as they come toss food between your legs behind you so the dog goes through. Quickly turn and toss food ahead of you, then call and toss food between your legs again, do it theee times, on the fourth time close your legs and treat near your tummy. Tossing food is thrilling (sets off prey drive) and teaches dogs to come in close. 

Once we finished puppy class, Theo is no longer allowed to play with random dogs we meet. He can have a quick sniff meeting but I prefer he not meet. He plays with his sister, and can play with my daughters dog. Elroy has dogs he plays with regularly but he can learn to to not play with random dogs you meet if you keep him moving away or have him sit to your side when you talk. One of my trainers said dogs can have 5 seconds to meet then move on. You never know when someone says their dog is friendly… and it’s not. Or you assume a dog you see often is safe. In Europe dogs don’t meet. I’m sure in your current class Elroy is not being encouraged to play with the other dogs.

Some dogs need to repeat the obedience 2 class several times before they are ready to pass the exam. There’s no shame in that. Anyone taking dog sports will tell you they repeated classes because there’s always something new to learn. Theo is repeating basic 1 because the level 2 class at my club conflicted with my teaching. I’ve been practicing CGC in this class and working in such a distracting class was an advantage because I had to work harder to keep his focus.

it is easier for older more mature dogs, but it does help to take a class designed to train and test CGC. I hope others like Peggy who are interested can find this type of class. Doesn’t have to be an AKC club, even some humane societies and private trainers offer these classes.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

TeamHellhound said:


> In the meanwhile, you might be interested in the Virtual Home Manners Test. https://www.akc.org/products-servic...n/akc-family-dog-program/virtual-home-manners.


I've seen this online somewhere already. I think he'd pass the puppy version except for 5 and 6.
5. Comes when called - from 10 ft in house 
6. Go to place - stay 15 seconds
Both of those would be toss ups.

For the adult version, I think he'd pass except for 4, 6 and 7.
4. Comes when called indoors (from 20 ft. or another room) 
6. Doorbell\knock - dog behaves appropriately 
7. Go to place/crate - stay 1 minute


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Skylar said:


> Tom, I am impressed with your evaluation of Elroy so you know what you need to work on. From your class you should have learned how to train it… but if you are having problems, post back and PF can help.
> 
> Wait til you finish your class because maturity plays a role. One month makes a huge difference. Theo for the longest time was a major pogo stick when cued to sit or lay down. He goes down so quickly, you would miss it if you blinked, and back up on 4 paws just as quickly. I kept working on him staying seated or down for longer and longer… it seemed to take forever but recently I started to see progress. Progress built on progress so now I can leave him seated and walk across the room and back or do a recall. I’ve also made progress on duration too … Novice Obedience has a long sit or down where you walk 6 ‘ away and my pogo stick is now keeping position for 1 minute. I do a little training on this every evening.
> 
> ...


The Family Dog II class doesn't touch on grooming, and no, the instructor is not brushing anybody's dog. In fact there is no test at all. Everyone gets a completion certificate when they're done. A participation certificate really. 
I'm pretty sure I could bring Elroy's brush and ask the instructor to brush him a bit after class. Then I'd know where we are with it.
As for sit, down, stays,... good advise. I will practice these with him at more places. We do "Sit" at every road crossing, but not downs or stays. I'll add this into our daily routine somewhere.
As for meeting/playing with new dogs, I guess I hadn't thought about this. If I had my way, I'm actually teaching him that he gets rewarded with doggie play every time he comes across another dog. I guess on walks, I need to restrict the dog greetings to a calm sniff and then move along. Play will have to be reserved for play dates when they're off leash and fenced in.
I know you touched on more that I should comment on, but suffice it to say, nighty night! Time for bed! Thanks for the helpful tips!


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## Thomazine (Aug 9, 2020)

I am steadily working towards Remy’s CGC, and at this point, I’m hoping he’ll get there by eighteen months. He’s always been very high-energy and distractible, so we’ve been repeating our classes - not because he doesn’t know all the tricks, but because I want him to be able to focus, and settle, and perform even with a gorgeous cavalier spaniel on one side of us and an excitable Aussie on the other.

I will say that even at thirteen months, he is light-years away from where he was at eight months in terms of his ability to calm himself and focus on me in class. He just seems to need TIME.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Thomazine said:


> he is light-years away from where he was at eight months in terms of his ability to calm himself and focus on me in class. He just seems to need TIME.


With Elroy now almost 8 months, this is very encouraging! I agree! Time!


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## Thomazine (Aug 9, 2020)

I would also add: I have a special leash and bowls for his classes, and I do not allow him to greet the other dogs. I try to communicate that We Are Working Now.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Thank you @lily cd re for your guidance! I like the idea of practicing doggie and people greetings in public places/pet friendly stores/shops. *I don't want him to pass just because he knows the instructor. I truly want the benefits of CGC, not just the ribbon*. 12-15 months should be plenty of time to get him trained on the remaining issues. Today we had the town "Chile Fest" on the Green. It's also a rent a space for local vendors (think crafts fair, etc). Elroy and I attended. There were an endless supply of people (and things) to greet as well as an ample supply of leashed pooches. After he met a dozen or so people, he began to stay calm with the rest of the dozens of more meetings. He also met close up an personal with 4 new dogs, one of which he played super good with, the rest we just nosed up a bit and he was pretty well behaved! He also must have seen at least a dozen other dogs at a distance (15 ft plus) and was well behaved. A little pulling on a couple of them, but mostly just carefully ogling them. Later on during a walk, we ran into our female mailman. He's met her probably at least a dozen times and she is quite dog savvy/friendly. He didn't jump on her when greeting her, AND he even sat when she she asked him to! Very good progress, although he still had a hard time not nibbling on her loose clothing bits, nosing around her mail and pockets and other mailman implements!


What I bolded makes me really happy. I have a few people wanting to do every single version of CGC right now and I think their main interest is to add titles, not to have their dogs realy be good citizens in all places and circumstances. I will test them all for whatever they want since it puts some $ in my club's coffers but feel a little ambivalent about it. The CGCA makes sense for a lot of them, but the CGCU is really not testing things that matter in the burbs of Long Island. I can't even give this test at the club since we have only single level buildings, no sidewalks and no controlled street crossings (all of which are needed for CGCU). The Chile Fest sounds like a great place to have gotten good training into Elroy's experiences.

My next planned time for doing CGC/CGCA training and testing will be in January 2022 (weather permitting). We are about 40 minutes from the Port Jefferson ferry so if you want to make an outing out of a couple of Fridays LMK.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

@lily cd re 
Well that is just too far out of the way for me with my training center being only a 20 minute drive away! Thanks for the offer though!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I figured that would be a stretch but it didn't cost anything to offer.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

94Magna_Tom said:


> The Family Dog II class doesn't touch on grooming, and no, the instructor is not brushing anybody's dog. In fact there is no test at all. Everyone gets a completion certificate when they're done. A participation certificate really.
> I'm pretty sure I could bring Elroy's brush and ask the instructor to brush him a bit after class. Then I'd know where we are with it.


Tom, the trainer comes close to the dog and does a quick light brushing on the side … it almost like a quick petting of the dog. Elroy goes to a groomer and you are brushing him regularly so he should be okay with this.

If you go on the AKC website you can find where testing for CGC are going to be held and who is doing the testing. If you find someone local, you an ask where you can find a training class. Lots of places near me offer CGC training, you don’t have to find an AKC club.



Thomazine said:


> I am steadily working towards Remy’s CGC, and at this point, I’m hoping he’ll get there by eighteen months. He’s always been very high-energy and distractible, so we’ve been repeating our classes - not because he doesn’t know all the tricks, but because I want him to be able to focus, and settle, and perform even with a gorgeous cavalier spaniel on one side of us and an excitable Aussie on the other.
> 
> I will say that even at thirteen months, he is light-years away from where he was at eight months in terms of his ability to calm himself and focus on me in class. He just seems to need TIME.


Thomazine it is good to look back and see how far you have come. It’s fun to watch them mature and settle down. I had the advantage in that I had trained my other dog for CGC. As soon as I brought my puppy home I was training him for attention on me and to prepare him. Keep working on that focus and you will get there.


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