# Trying not to panic, but JRD is my fear!!



## Hey_j (Apr 27, 2011)

Okay, so we've had Callie since April 2nd, and she'll be 20 weeks next Wednesday. 
Housebreaking has become uncontrollable. She can sleep through the night, but during the day
she can be outside for almost an hour playing with our Pap/mix and come right in and flood the floor within minutes.
It's almost always like very faint yellow (very faint) or clear! She drinks alot of water, admittedly.
But, when she goes she goes SO MUCH! So, I'm thinking, this housebreaking thing is not working,
and I started to do a thread on getting advice of what to do when I decided to check and see how early
signs of diabetes can be and what to look for. Instead, in the list of symptoms of all sorts of 
health issues Standard Poos seem prone to, there are hers under Juvenile Renal Dysplasia!
Anyone else ever have a puppy with this?? It doesn't sound good!!! She's very healthy otherwise. 
The only other concern we've had is how rapidly she breathes at night when she's sleeping. It is actually 
impossible for us to duplicate the rate of her puffing, so fast that I can't imagine she is drawing a 
breath between puffing!!! But I know that's impossible. Some nights it's worse than others but it 
goes on and on and on when it is bad!

Now I'm scared!

Here are some links I found about the disease:

http://www.standardpoodlesusa.com/juvenile-renal-disease.html

http://www.vetprof.com/clientinfo/poodlerenal.html


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## spoowhisperer (Apr 26, 2010)

You've been to the vet then, right? Did your vet run tests for a bladder infection?
As far as the fast breathing, my first standard did that too as a puppy and young adult, but your vet should have told you if his heart rate was abnormal.


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## Hey_j (Apr 27, 2011)

Thank you, Spoowhisperer, I've just gotten to the point that I've realized something is very wrong, within the past hour, so no, haven't been to the Vet.
But, I am definitely going to! I don't think the VOLUME can be explained as a urinary tract infection especially with no pinkness
in the urine and it being so light colored.

When we first brought her home, after a 3 hour ride, she was so thirsty, I had to drag her away from the
water dish and she kept racing back to it. She was 13 weeks at that point! This continued till we finally put her to bed. 
In the morning it started up all over again and I kept pulling her away, making her wait a few mins. and then let her go for
more. FINALLY she was quenched. I emailed the breeder to ask why she thinks she would be acting like that and all
she could tell me is that she hadn't had anything to drink after her bath, which was mins. before we showed up. 
That would have been around 2:30 p.m. and we got home at 10:00 p.m. with her. We were at the house for about 3 hours
and stopped at a local petstore for a carrier etc. and then we stopped for some drive-thru food, etc.

I've noticed that she does drink alot of water all along, and needs to urinate alot but it is ramping up! 
It wasn't until 3 HUGE deluges this afternoon that I became very discouraged with the problem. 
Then, as I described above I suddenly wondered if it could be a health issue!!

I just let her out to go, and she didn't make it to her spot in the back, squatted urinated and then ran to her spot to go again.
I had to drag her head out of the water bowl on the way out and on the way back in! This is not right!!

Again, with a UTI I would expect frequent urinating, and not very much at the time, but definitely not the volume I'm seeing!!!
It's like someone has thrown a quart of water on the floor!

Thank you for your response Spoowhisperer,
Janice


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## Ruth (Nov 18, 2010)

Hey_j, please don't panic.

I had a puppy with JRD and I hope that's not what your puppy has, but the only way to be sure is running tests with your vet.

Please go to your vet if you suspect anything. It might only be that she's drinking tons of water, the weather is getting warmer, but as I said, that's the only way to be sure.

Please keep us updated!! Tons of hugs for you!


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## Hey_j (Apr 27, 2011)

Thank you, Ruth! I pray you're right!!! She's just having so many accidents in the house when she's had plenty of time
outside!! And she's doing it on her vinyl bed pillow and it just sits there like this huge dump of water!!
And she's doing it in the middle of the kitchen floor, thank God it's porcelain tile, and she'll do it right in 
front of us! Then we'll find where she's gone on the carpet in the bedroom and it's very fresh within mins.
of the other, apparently!

I'm on high doses of prednisone right now for a bronchial spasm so I'm not handling this well, I'm afraid.
I'm going to bed now and try to not think about it---RIGHT!!!

Thank you, Ruth!!! 

janice

Had to ask--how old was your SPOO when you realized it had JRD?


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## Ruth (Nov 18, 2010)

More hugs for you, please try to get some rest!

She wasn't a Spoo, she was a German Shepherd and while I knew something was wrong ever since she was around 8-9 months, the tests our then vet ran on her were only basic and showed nothing.
It was only til she had real problems at 15 months old when it was confirmed that yes, what she had was JRD.

Before this, I hadn't even hear about this nasty disease, so please don't let your vet talk you out of it and be firm if you suspect that's what it is.

If I had only known what I know now, I would have demanded complete blood tests and everything possible when I first started suspecting something was not ok with her.

Hugs to you and Callie, praying that it's something minor!


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## rubymom (Apr 24, 2010)

Does sound like more than a UTI kinda thing. And it is the NOT knowing that causes such fear I'm sure! Hang in there! You'll get some answers soon from your vet!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

You poor thing, what a worry! I can well understand how upset you must be. Ruth gave you good advice (as she always does). I'm glad Callie will be seen by the vet soon. 

I hope you quickly get the right diagnosis and things can be well managed. Hard as it is, you're doing the best you can for now. You're caring for Callie and the extra housekeeping that comes along with her at this point. And you're scheduling her veterinary visit. You have to somehow find a time to take care of yourself, too. You must be feeling pretty unwell with those bronchial spasms, this emotional upset can't be good for you. I know that prednisone can take a toll on you too. I wish you well on all fronts. I'm anxious to hear what your vet says. I hope with all my heart things will get better going forward, for you and for Callie.


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## Trillium (Sep 1, 2009)

That is so rough. Please keep us posted on how its going. I hope and pray its something not serious.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

A vet trip is in order. I wouldn't let a vet talk me out of "Nothing is wrong" because the bloodwork came back fine. Those of us who are with us day & night know when something is wrong. Just a case with this scenario- My parents Golden started to exhibit aggressive behavior when my dad would help him up in the car. At first it was written off with his hips being sore from his surgery long ago from HD. But this dog then started to bite my dad when he lifted his hind end up & there were other subtle signs. Took him into the vet & his "bloodwork" came back normal. My parents took their GR home & the behavior got worse with now drawing blood with his bites when lifted into the car. My dad's hands, head etc.... Something was not right. Took him back to the vet after only a few weeks from the last time. Same thing vet took blood came back fine. My parents insisted something was wrong with the dog so the vet finally caved in & took chest x-rays. On those x-rays found a huge cantaloupe tumor in the chest cavity. No wonder every time my dad had his hands on the chest to help him in the car the dog was in pain & bit. Surgery to remove said tumor. Then of course by this time the dog had more cancer spread through his body. 

So, please don't let the "blood test" is normal routine sway you that all is o.k. You feel all is not right so go from there.


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## Hey_j (Apr 27, 2011)

Thank you all, (Ruth (again) RubyMom, Chagall's Mom & Trillium, & 3dogs for your attention to my dilemna and your kind words and advice--I am listening to you closely and accepting what you're advising me as very worthwhile!

I made an appt. for Monday afternoon. What an ordeal to find someone who would actually give me an idea if I am pursuing this too soon. My initial Vet, was honest to say he was unfamiliar with this syndrome and recommended me to two other clinics. One, is apparently very upscale and expensive with a $300 fee to even confer with one of their staff re: occular problems with a cat (daughter's experience) and when I asked to speak to one of the Vets to understand a better timing (age-wise) to be assured of a more accurate results in diagnosing, I was told that was not possible, that I would have to first come in for a consultation to discuss such a thing. I said, so, I could bring her in, only to find out I need to wait a few more months and then walk out with a huge bill to find that out? And, she said basically yes! And, I said, well I won't be doing business there, then if no one can at least tell me if my timing is diagnostically advisable.

So, I contacted the second referral and was told (after the reception spoke with one of the vets) that they are born with it, if they have it, and now is not too soon to do the bloodwork, initially, and could possibly negate any need to follow up with an ultra-sound, but even so, she is not too young to spot if her kidneys are underdeveloped. It will be $50 for her to be seen with bloodwork to be sent out from $70-$120 and an utrasound up to $200,if the bloodwork isn't fairly conclusive!

I'm really doing my research on the disease right now, and am finding this is a VERY SERIOUS DISEASE (that is apparently on the increase)! I found this part of an article (linked above) very disturbing *:afraid:*especially in light that I believe that out of the litter of 12, (Callie's from) one died, possibly stillborn:

By Susan L. Fleisher, [email protected]. Copyright 1996, all rights reserved. 

"*Recognizing the Problem*_*If *a breeder is informed about a medical problem in a puppy she has sold, *and often she is not*, or, if just the owner of the dam is informed, and it is only one puppy in a litter about whom she is informed, it is usually treated as an isolated incident. _Unless there are multiples in a litter, and the breeder is informed about each, *the fact that the illness from which a puppy is suffering is a genetic disease is not recognized*, and no recognition is made nor thought given to those littermates who are carriers. Without an understanding of the genetics involved, and_ most veterinarians treat isolated incidences as being from an unknown cause rather than as Juvenile Renal Disease,_ veterinarians are unable to offer counseling to breeders, and more and more carriers are unknowingly bred. _In the breeds in which JRD is known to occur many of the puppies who fall into the "fading puppy syndrome" and die at a young age may well have died of JRD. _Many stillborn puppies are victims of this disease. Often, however, an affected puppy will grow normally until it is between ten and twenty four months of age before it is symptomatic, diagnosed and dies. 

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*
Heritability*George Padgett, D.V.M., a geneticist and professor of pathology at Michigan State University, told me that JRD affects about 20 breeds. *In most of the breeds in which it has been studied it is a simple (one gene), autosomal (not sex linked), recessive (both parents have to carry the gene) disease.* *Both parents of an affected puppy are therefore defined carriers.* *The presence of just one affected puppy determines that both parents are carriers.* _Littermates of an affected puppy have a 66% chance of being carriers_. Aunts and uncles of an affected puppy have a 50% chance of being carriers, as do grandparents. According to Dr. Padgett, if a sire has produced an affected puppy, and is therefore a defined carrier, he has also proven bitches who are probably clear: those who when bred to him have produced sizeable litters in which there were no affected puppies. "Proven" is used rather loosely here, since statistically a dog mated to a carrier and producing six normal offspring would still have a 17.8% chance of being a carrier. Twelve normal offspring would reduce that chance to 3.17%. The preceding figures which refer to simple autosomal recessive anomalies are from Malcolm B. Willis' book Genetics of The Dog. If the disease is caused by a simple autosomal recessive gene, both parents must be carriers of the gene to produce an affected puppy. However, even if only the sire or only the dam is a carrier, the other parent being clear, 50% of all the puppies born are carriers themselves. If the cause of JRD is polygenic, several genes would be necessary collectively in order for the disease to occur.

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*Eliminating JRD* *Among the pedigrees I have collected are those of twenty five litters of an American Champion sire. **There are a large number of American Champions among his offspring.* In two of these litters there was one puppy with JRD. *The sire is therefore a carrier,* and *half of the puppies in every one of his litters are carriers.* *This is just one sire: the arithmetic is stunning. **The possibility that this will not eventually touch every breeder in the breeds in which it is known is unlikely, and, by the time it does, it will be difficult if not impossible to eliminate. *In order for Juvenile Renal Disease, sometimes called Familial Renal Disease, Renal Dysplasia, or Congenital Hypoplasia to be studied in any breed, several things have to occur. Breeders of breeds affected by this disease should have any stillborn pups and all pups who die before being sold, autopsied, if only to look for this one disease. If the puppy is seen to have JRD, (the kidney cells actually have to be studied under a microscope, since occasionally the kidneys appear normal to the naked eye), the rest of the litter can be tested. *Bloodwork should be done to look for an elevated BUN, and urine tested to establish a urine protein creatinine ratio. Unaffected litter mates should all be considered carriers, since there is no way to distinguish a carrier from a non carrier puppy. *The only positive outcome of having an affected litter that I can think of is that it enables the breeder to identify carriers and potential carriers. Every affected litter has the potential to stop carriers from producing more carriers. If an autopsy shows that a puppy did not die of JRD, that is also useful information. I realize that post mortem examinations are expensive, though *a restricted exam to look for one specific finding would be much less expensive.* I can assure anyone that is infinitely more expensive on an emotional as well as a financial basis not to have an autopsy done to look for this disease. *Once carriers and dogs who are clear have been identified, concerned and careful breeders can work to systematically breed the disease out."* 
*(all emphasis added were mine/janice)*


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## Hey_j (Apr 27, 2011)

*More of the article*

I decided this was important from that article to point out, too!

*Symptoms*

_*"Early*_ symptoms of Juvenile Renal Disease include *drinking copious amounts of water*, something that might not be readily apparent in a house with more than one dog, *frequent urination, and dilute urine which has little color or odor*. *Some affected puppies will leak urine, others won't*. 

As the disease progresses, vomiting, weight loss, anorexia, lethargy, and muscle weakness are seen. There is often a chemical odor to the breath, and teeth are sometimes discolored. *Some puppies grow normally until they are diagnosed,* and some appear as failures to thrive. 

Treatment for JRD consists of *a low protein prescription diet, Hill's K/D, and, in addition, IV fluids can be given to act as a kind of dialysis.* *Epogen, an expensive drug which needs to be carefully monitored*, can be also be given to treat the hypoproliferative anemia of chronic renal failure. Some Veterinary schools are experimenting with kidney transplants, but *transplanted kidneys in dogs are commonly rejected. *These treatments are palliative at best, and the prognosis for JRD is grim. *Puppies usually die within several months of being diagnosed, almost always before age two. *I do know of several dogs who have JRD with less severe kidney involvement, and who are *being well maintained on low protein diets.* These dogs are both more than three years old, and *were diagnosed before they were symptomatic.* One because his litter was decimated by the disease, and one because his vet was giving free BUN tests to his/her clients." 

(again, all emphasis are mine)


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

I really hope it's not JRD. My dog was a huge water hog as a puppy, especially after playing, and he would pee so much dilute urine. He still does this (drinks lots of water) when we go to the dog park, but otherwise does not. Maybe your puppy just likes water? When Jäger was 20 months I still had to take him out on a leash to his potty spot to pee every two hours minimum. He just did not develop good bladder control until later. He's fine now... Maybe your pup is similar? I know that just letting him out in the yard didn't do it, I had to leash him and tell him "Fo potty" or he would forget to go because he was having so much fun sniffing and playing outside. Once he was back inside he would remember he did actually have to go. Just a thought, I hope you get good news from the vet.


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## Hey_j (Apr 27, 2011)

Oh thank you for some hope Paddleaddict!! I hope it's true!!! 

I don't know whether to hold off on all the testings, and just get more and more attached (I do love her ALOT already) 
and find out it really is a serious problem or just bite the bullet. If I do, go ahead, and they can guarantee me 
(probably not) that she's not having JRD, then I *could *relax, (maybe?)I suppose! 

I'm praying to know what to do! If any of you are prayers, please help me in this decision. I am seriously feeling 
grieved already--and trying not to but with prednisone in form of pills, after an injection of it and in an inhaler, 
I'm pretty shakey anyway and becoming a tad emotional. What TIMING!!! I knew I WOULD get this way, from 
having to go through this 11 years ago, but rats--to have something upsetting like this on top??? Whine, whine, whine!
I'm blaming the whining on the high dosages as well--not normally inclined to given in this way!:boring::Cry::hurt:


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Keep your appointment... It's better to know for sure what is going on. I hope it's nothing, but if there is a problem it's better to have as much info as possible.


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## Hey_j (Apr 27, 2011)

First of all, thank you, Janet (Sisko & Janet) for pm'ing me and letting me know we are in your thoughts!!:angel:

I am copying most of my response to her, as I've got a busy schedule today and it will help me save time. I hope you don't mind, Janet?

" On Sunday afternoon, I became aware that she was dripping pink urine prodigiously! She had also vomitted her meal of earlier in the day, almost not digested at all. We immediately took her to the emergency clinic where they diagnosed her as having a UTI, of the bacterial strain which was in their opinion a good thing in that she had a highly acidic environment as opposed to one with a ph that would have spelled 'stone-making'! 

Oh, and she vomitted slightly while waiting and there was blood in her phlegm. To say the least, I found that very alarming. But, I was assured that it can happen with UTI's!

Sooo, I cancelled the appt. for Monday with a veterinary clinic and am waiting to see if the things that have caused me concern, might not be, afterall, Urinary tract infection, as was suggested by Ruby's Mom (thank you)!!! If so, I will be* VERY *THANKFUL!! :amen: 

The Vet also assured me that drinking copious amounts of water (your suggestion, too, Paddleaddict) is a common complaint by puppy owners and that she's probably evidencing that in her output of urine. And, *I'm* hoping that if she's been working on this infection for awhile, may explain the random splashing of urine, seemingly by the cupfuls!!

I do feel the issue about the syndrome of JRD needs to be out there. The Vet I usually go to knew *nothing of it *and referred me to the clinic I WAS scheduled to take her to, and the emergency Vet knew *nothing of it *and had to look it up on the computer. She said it is apparently more breed connected and can be dealt with, by genetic screening if breeders are willing to do what is necessary to assure good healthy lines that won't overtake the breed completely. It would call for a high degree of ethics, integrity and scruples I'd think and would be evidenced by those who would be *the most conscientious *lovers of the breed.

I do love her dearly, already. She and I spent some 'quiet time' on our deck in the middle of our gardens and she was so affectionate and loving and sweet, and obviously feeling much better. She'll be 5 months tomorrow and weighed in at 30 lbs. so I think she's tracking well on her health, otherwise!!!"

The vet did tell me, that female dogs, with the long hair have more problems with this type of UTI, because the vulva is tucked in more deeply and covered with the hair which becomes a breeding ground for bacteria. So--she will have her bottom exposed asap and it will be the case from now on. Very good advice from her, I thought!! Now I know more than I would have had I not had this experience and hopefully poor Callie won't have to go through this again! The vet also said she would not bounce back *as quickly* as 'we' _human_ gal's can, when we're prescribed the appropriate antibiotic. Thankfully, I only had one such experience, personally, and I'm telling you, within the course of an hour after the first pill, I was well on my way free from the intense discomfort and 'bright' evidence of a UTI. Poor Callie!! But, today, like I said she seems MUCH better!!!

And, AGAIN, thank you for your concern, Janet! You made my day!:act-up:

janice

P.S. Thinking we might just change her name a tiny bit, to Cala, (pronounced the same as 'Callie' but pronounced 'Cowl-la', like also 'Calla Lily') cause it's easy to say and I was born and reared in Ocala, Florida (lived there till I went away to College and finally moved to Ohio when I got married to my hubby of 42 yrs. now). Now, you know more about me than you were ever wanting to know!!

I doubt she'll be bothered by the change--the whole family might cause I've gone through 'Marley' (named at birth) to 'Pringle' the one most loved by the family to 'Carley' cause it was closer to the original, then to 'Callie' cause our other dog, 'Barney' seemed confused when I called to her as 'Carley'!:bounce:


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

I was wondering about Callie last night. I'm glad you got a diagnosis and it isn't as serious as you feared. I hope she feels better soon... UTIs are no fun, I've had more than my fair share unfortunately.


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## Underpants Gnome (Oct 12, 2009)

Hey_j,
I am glad that you have a diagnosis of UTI now. I had this same problem with my puppy Nell, drinking constantly, peeing huge amounts - almost always peeing inside!! Grrr! I took her to the vet immediately after I got her and they discovered bacteria and crystals in her urine. After a course of antibiotics it still had not cleared up, so the vet suggested an ultrasound to rule out kidney problems. I think she was concerned about JRD, although she never actually called it that. So we had an ultrasound which showed that the kidneys were normal and were functioning normal, but other odd things showed up. So another round of antibiotics plus 6 weeks of kibble for UTI. The new kibble caused her to drink more and pee huge amounts, again often in the house. I remember one night when she had been outside for an hour, came in and within 45 minutes had peed in the house 3 times! I was so close to tears that after cleaning up the 3rd mess, I put her in her crate and told my husband to take care of her and I went to bed. I am such a baby sometimes.

It was a very trying time, but at least I was fairly certain that she would either outgrow the potty problems or we would find the correct drug to clear up the UTI. Let's not talk about how much I have spent on vet bills so far. We were doing UAs every week and always finding crystals.

I am happy to say that she had a clear UA last week (she's 5 1/2 months), her follow up ultrasound showed no further issues, and she is finally holding her pee and mostly going when she is outside. She still has accidents, but not every day. I feel like there is light at the end of the tunnel but it was a 4 month nightmare. And I honestly don't know what we did that cleared up the problem. Maybe the kidney food for 6 weeks - we had her on Hill's c/d and then some version of Royal Canin. 

One other thing that I will tell you about is the ultrasound. I really feel that the ultrasound was not interpreted correctly the first time, causing unnecessary concerns. One of the things they said they found was that her bladder was set too far back and this could cause UTI and be a long term problem. Well, one month later, they didn't find that. Does not make sense to me that a structural problem would completely resolve itself in 4 weeks, even though I know she is growing and changing. I am glad we did the ultrasound to rule out kidney function problems, but . . .

Anyway, I feel your pain and I hope clearing up the UTI clears up all of the problems. Don't you just wish they could tell you what hurts? Would make it so much easier. Good Luck!


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## Hey_j (Apr 27, 2011)

Oh, thank you, 'U.P. Gnome?' (I hope there's another name I can call you--lol) for sharing your trial and the good outcome--eventually! How awful for you and your pup!!! I hope we aren't having the crystal situation, and it seems the vet made that point in saying it was an acidic based sampling (?) of urine they found. She said it would make it less likely she would form stones, which begin with crystals, I believe (?). 

I can certainly understand the extreme frustration you experienced just having gone through what we have on a fairly short term basis--to date! I know I sure went through the paper towels (Bounty even) by the ROLLS!!! So far, she only had one accident yesterday. And, I knew she really probably couldn't help it so that helps me understand she's not just being stubborn. She's at my feet right now, resting her head on my foot. I think the anti-biotic may be bothering her stomach as she's eating grass and almost up-chucked earlier on today.

I do hope and pray your SPOO is really done with her issue! Maybe maturing of the bladder and her body in general will better equip her to deal with such things--I hope for you and her sake!!

Thank you for checking back 'Paddle addict' and commenting, too! 

janice


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## Apres Argent (Aug 9, 2010)

It is young for Addison's but it also can cause the symtoms you are describing.
An ACTH stim test is the only way to be sure, looking at sodium and potassium is not an accurate method.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Diabetes also causes prodigious drinking, fast breathing (diabetic ketoacidosis) and lots of peeing. I am glad you have a UTI diagnosis and hope that is really all that is going on. It would be better if they did a little blood work...


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Im glad its just a UTI! Hopefully she improves quickly!!

OW, in this age of a puppy I would not be concerned with diabetes. Also, it is standard practice when running a urine to run a "urine stick" too. It tells you a glucose and ketone reading also. If she is diabetic then it will/would of picked it up. Also, if a dog is ketoacidodic then they are life-threatenly sick and will look like it. This puppy is not.


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## Ruth (Nov 18, 2010)

So glad and relieved to hear it's just a UTI! *hugs*

Can I ask where you got all the info on JRD you copy/pasted here?


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## spoowhisperer (Apr 26, 2010)

You must be so relieved! Hoping to hear soon that your floors are no longer graced with puddles!


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## Hey_j (Apr 27, 2011)

Oh dear, Addison's and Diabetes (my first fear) I hope are not in the picture for our Callie!! Thank you for your thoughts on the possibilities Apres Argent, and outwest, and bigpoodleperson for your reassurance that she so far doesn't fit the profile for either, hopefully!

Ruth, I googled symptoms of diabetes in Standard Poodles and found several sources and one had an extensive list of the possibilities for health issues in the breed! Reading along, I scrolled on down to spot the Juvenile Renal Disease or Dysplasia subject line with a link from there. I think I have it linked on the first page of this thread! I just felt many would not take the time to read the particulars that I found important to keep in mind with this possibility looming as a real threat to the breed, and in fact is well on it's way if the research is to be believed!

Spoowhisperer--I had to laugh at your comment because the puddles have drastically lessened and short of buying stock in Bounty paper towels, or at least getting a better wholesale price, I was really at my wits end wondering if I could ever relax with her movement about the house! So far, she only slipped up once last night--and this time it was on the bedroom carpet NOT the porcelain tile in most of the rest of the house! Sigh--oh well, thankfully, with the water she drank before, it was pretty diluted--and I was able to see that there was no PINK on the towels after cleaning up!!!

Again, thank you so much for those of you who have taken the time to comment and commiserate with me during this time. I will be following up with our Vet though--her rabies shot is due (20 wks today) and I am concerned about her rapid breathing at times!!!

janice


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## mandyand casey (Jan 12, 2011)

Casey would drink tonnes of water and pee constantly Just because pup is outside doesnt`mean it is doing anything and perhaps she is not taking the time to stop playing and pee.
I actually didn`t let mine outside to play unless i saw them pee first then they could play together outside. We also tried to use different yards to play and pee in as not to confuse to much at first.

Casey had a problem on the high protien foods like Orijen especially On a lower more normal food he was fine but a few days on orijen he could not control his bladder at all


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## Hey_j (Apr 27, 2011)

Mandy, thank you for sharing your experience and ideas! I have been supplementing her food with home cooked ground beef, fresh steamed green beans and fresh steamed broccoli, brown rice and grated carrots all mixed up in her Nutro adult dog food. It may be too much protein although I thought for a growing puppy it was needed since I am not giving her the puppy formulas. 

I also scramble a couple of eggs and add it in the mornings, to her regular food.

Maybe I need to back off if I see she is unable to control her bladder, but the past two days have been a great improvement already!

janice


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## jade cat (Sep 22, 2009)

Dear Hay_J,

I do not want to worry you, but I feel I need pass on some information! We had a beautiful little Chow Chow girl, that came to us from the breeder at 12 weeks. She had the drink and urination issues and rapid breathing while asleep that you mention. We took her to our then vet whom reassured us she had an UTI, gave antibiotics. this did not help much and she still peed all the time vet said it might be Diabetes insidious do a input out put chart for a week or two and see how we go!! Well we got concerned and took her to another vet! Our new vet just looked at our poor girl and told us that she was a very ill little girl and she would need to go to the Vet hospital as soon as possible! Sadly she did not make it to the hospital as she went into cardiac shock when she had her preliminary bloods done at our vet.
We later found out that our poor little girl had a congenital liver shunt and a congenital heart defect:-

"Patent ductus arteriosis (PDA) is a birth defect representing the second most common congenital heart defect of dogs. Approximately seven out of 1000 live birth puppies are affected.cardiac shock when she had her preliminary bloods done at our vet." 

in her case probably inoperable, BUT the big but is that many pups with this condition can be operated on and be given a good chance of a good healthy life. Had we gone with our gut feelings and pushed, she might have been in the position to have been helped!!
Now I am not in any way saying your little girl has this OK but I would hate to sit here and not point out this condition, just in case. Same simple test like bloods X-ray or ultra scan can rule this problem out. 
Hope this does not alarm you too much!! It is only meant with good intention.


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