# chocolate standard



## kitman01 (Jul 27, 2011)

I everyone I’m pretty new to this forum, I did do a brief introduction yesterday
My name is Dee 
I had two dogs a Shiba-Inu (Spencer) and a chocolate standard (Moose) and a cat Kitman
Well, last Tues 7/19/11 we lost Moose to cancer, Moose was 11yrs old. The Monday after 7/25/11 we lost our cat to kidney failure Kitman was 18yrs. Now it’s just Spencer and myself. Spencer is 12yrs. We are going through an adjustment not having the other two here. Spencer is missing his brothers and so am I. So now I’m searching for another chocolate standard male pup. I’ve talked or e-mailed with a few breeders. Bijou poodles out of Canada & ben-chers poodles out of Minnesota used to be in Alaska I’ve been searching the Internet for chocolate standard poodle; there are of course tons of breeders out there. How does a person know if the breeder isn’t just trying to make a sale and the dogs will be what the breeder says it is? I know there aren’t any guarantees in life; I live in RI, and willing to buy from anyone in the US or Canada. I’m just trying to get a good healthy pup. I don’t need one right away but hopefully in the near future if possible. Anyway it’s a bit over whelming and a little depressing trying to research them all, any pointers or recommendations on breeders would greatly appreciated.


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## 2719 (Feb 8, 2011)

Hello, welcome to this forum.

I am sorry to hear you lost two great companions in such a short time. 

I noticed in your post you have contacted Bijou about a brown standard. I was just at a UKC show in Ontario where this Breeder was showing her Red standards. So I was curious to learn about her breeding program. I was a bit dismayed to read this line in her website quote"There really is no guarantee on colour even though we do 
DNA test to ensure our poodles do not carry the fading gene.

I would contact Bijou and ask her to explain how this is possible as currently there is no definitive test for finding the so called "fading gene".


Also you might not want to search for a Chocolate Standard as this is not a true colour to the breed. Many BYB use the term Chocolate as a term to describe their brown poodles. Try searching Brown Standard Poodles.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I was just going to tell the OP that according to people on this group the term is Brown, not Chocolate, so maybe she is having trouble finding nice ones because of the term used. I prefer to call them chocolate myself. 

I would recommend she starts at the Poodle Club of America:
Welcome to PCA!

You have to sift through the site and look by state then look in local clubs, which usually have members listed there. You can cross check against the AKC site if you like, but a lot of people here don't hold stock in the AKC Breeder of Merit, although I thought it was a good designation. 

You will want to know if the dogs are shown AKC or UKC or CKC. UKC shown poodles are often particolored or smaller or more agility type poodles. That can be very nice depending on what you want. AKC only poodles are terrific, too. My puppy is registered with both. There are also hunting lines or pure conformation lines. You'll want to ask how big the standards are because standard poodles vary an enormous amount in size. 

I totally feel for you going about this search. I did it on my own before I knew this site existed. I am very happy with my puppy, but it was certainly a trial finding one that met my criteria (namely fully health tested parents that looked nice with a low COI, too). Even then some people disagreed with my choice! LOL Personal opinions abound on different breeders and you are safer not mentioning them by name.

I found that in order to get the puppy I wanted I did have to wait a bit. That was the hardest part. You will find a nice puppy, I know you will.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

To the OP - I will send you a PM re: brown breeders. My brown girl has a sire from te peckerwood line - Tom Carneal has been breeding for over 30 years and is a well respected AKC judge. He has contributed greatly to the brown poodle. I recommend contacting him. He is near Kansas City, MO. I will message you his contact info. 

Outwest - LMAO you are too much for me. It is not according to the people on this forum that there is no chocolate poodle, only brown, but it is according to the actual breed standard.


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## kitman01 (Jul 27, 2011)

Hmmm, I’m more naive than I thought. I didn’t realize that brown is the standard, no pun intended. I’ll reword my search.
Thanks


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## kitman01 (Jul 27, 2011)

thank you


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Great that CM is able to help with a brown breeder.  I just like ribbing you guys. Honestly, brown and chocolate are just descriptive words, but maybe it makes a difference when you do a search.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

outwest said:


> Great that CM is able to help with a brown breeder.  I just like ribbing you guys. Honestly, brown and chocolate are just descriptive words, but maybe it makes a difference when you do a search.


It makes a huge difference in a search as no reputable breeder would ever advertise "chocolate poodles" only backyard breeders.

Outwest, you say you are a former breeder, so I am suprised at your lack of knowledge regarding breed standards... many things are spelled out in breed standards, including the proper terminology of the breed. Would you ever say on your website that you bred tiger-stripped boxers, no of course not, it's brindle. Equally so, you would never say you breed brown Labs, you have a chocolate Labs, and you wouldn't say you have golden Labs, the color is called yellow Lab, and you don't have a chocolate poodle, it's a BROWN poodle.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

kitman01 said:


> Hmmm, I’m more naive than I thought. I didn’t realize that brown is the standard, no pun intended. I’ll reword my search.
> Thanks


Ha ha, I liked your pun!  Good luck in your search!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Paddleaddict, I get where you and CM are coming from. As you know, I think the breed standard has issues and needs upgrading. I don't respect it hook, line and sinker the way you guys do. For example, toy poodles do not have the same shaped heads as minis and standards. A good toy often has a slight wedge yet the standard is the same for the head of a toy compared to a mini or standard. The size lacking a definition in the standard poodle is my biggest pet peeve and has allowed some poodles to grow into a giant breed (I saw one the size of a small great dane the other week!). On the flip side, the medium sized poodles are looked down upon by 'standard' breeders. I hope the current Poodle Club of America has the chutzpa to update it, but I'm not holding my breath. 

That's not to say I don't accept brown poodles as being officially called brown not chocolate, but to get all hoity toity about a descriptive word isn't something that matters to me. Yes, boxers are brindle not tiger striped, but tiper striped describes it, too. People say chocolate because it sounds nicer, that's all. It doesn't bother me in the least. 

Saying brown rather than chocolate is important to many poodle people. Poodle breeders like to stay with the official word brown, so the original poster will have better luck finding a nice brown poodle by using that term.


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

PaddleAddict said:


> It makes a huge difference in a search as no reputable breeder would ever advertise "chocolate poodles" only backyard breeders.


In my country, I've seen them advertised that way before. I admit I didn't dig particularly deep as it wasn't a colour I was particularly interested in when I was looking to buy a dog, but many of them looked to be professional with COIs and health tests and champion ancestors posted. I kind of assumed they were meant to be dark brown rather than the dilute browns. Possibly the breed standard is not so specific here. Definitely worth looking for 'brown' as well though.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

outwest said:


> That's not to say I don't accept brown poodles as being officially called brown not chocolate, but to get all hoity toity about a descriptive word isn't something that matters to me.


Ummmm... it has nothing to do with being "hoity toity." It's just a fact. I'm not sure why you are so bent out of shape over this (or the poodle breed standard for that matter)? It's just totally bizarre to me. :confused2: 

Just as I would advise puppy buyers to avoid breeders hawking "teacup" poodles and "royal" poodles, I would also advise them to avoid breeders hawking "chocolate" poodles. It's just one initial step (among many others) to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

zyrcona said:


> In my country, I've seen them advertised that way before. I admit I didn't dig particularly deep as it wasn't a colour I was particularly interested in when I was looking to buy a dog, but many of them looked to be professional with COIs and health tests and champion ancestors posted. I kind of assumed they were meant to be dark brown rather than the dilute browns. Possibly the breed standard is not so specific here. Definitely worth looking for 'brown' as well though.


In the OP's country of residence, there will be no reputable breeder that will sell a standard poodle labeled "chocolate."


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

I tend to agree with PaddleAddict and CM, though its a "descriptive" word the weight behind the word is very important...

I would suggest contacting Bellefleet poodles, they seem to have decent looking browns :]


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## vtomblin (Jul 18, 2010)

I would suggest Sanvar out of Ontario. Anne Bell is her name and has really nice browns. She is also a member of the Poodle Club of Canada and I have heard from many good people she is respectable. Show and obedience dogs. Good luck. I know Anne will help direct you if she has no pups at the moment. Her website said she was expecting black and brown puppies this month.


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