# breeder search ????s



## cybercat (Nov 15, 2008)

I am a bit confused here. Ok I have a long history with dogs use to breed and work german import Shepherds years ago. I am a pro groomer also. 

What is allowable for a poodle breeder? To me some of what I am reading screams puppy mills coming from breeding GSDs. What I am refering to is a breeder have more then one litter a year. With many what you all refer to as top breeders many are breeding more then one color and having over 3 litters a year. Some are also breeding more than one size. Now to me this is puppy mill breeding. Way to many dogs being bred and handle by one breeder. But with poodle it seems normal.

Now I am not saying that the same female is being bred again in same year but still.. If one is breeding more than one color and one size how can one keep up. I know from breeding my dogs what one litter took as care. Some I did not let go of till later even to make sure they had the right home. I could not see having three or more litter in one year.

Am I wrong here is there something I am missing? Please explain poodle breeding tatics.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

I used to have German bred GSD out of SchH titled parents and that breeder had multiple litters a year. She had a whole kennel set up.

I don't think it is wrong to breed multiple bitches. I even think you can breed a bitch more than once a year (my foundation bitch cycled every 20 weeks like clock work). 

I don't think it is wrong to have different varieties. Poodles are one breed with three different varieties. It is very common for someone to have Standards and Minis or Standards and a Toy. Sometimes I think, the Standard breeders/showers just want to play at showing a poodle that doesn't take so long to groom!

I think the problem comes when over and over again, a breeder is breeding untitled Poodles. There are other things to do with Poodles than breed them. I would never buy from, nor recommend a breeder who does not title their dogs in some way. 

I think the problem comes when over and over, a breeder has puppies on the ground especially if the breeder has multiple litters at the same time again and again. In my opinion, puppies should be special. They take time and handling and socializing and training. Most breeders can not meet my expectation of interaction if they have 15+ puppies on the ground at a time.


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## mandi (May 13, 2009)

I am not a breeder but the larger breeders have help. I do think they will not be socialized as much as from a smaller breeder though-but more than one size and litter would not qualify them as 'puppy mills'.


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

I personally think that having more than 2 litters at the same time with Standard is really more than too much, unless breeder has extended family actively involved in training and grooming. Actually it is not unusual for a Standard to have 8 pups or more sometimes and than some pups need to be bottle fed.

Raising socialized and almost potty-trained and crate-familiar puppies asks for 24/7 attention and hard work and I would buy only from a breeder who has one litter at a time. 

Regarding color - most breeders of Standards DO specialize in one or two colors. 

In general - top breeders do not breed more than once a year . They breed only when they need to produce next Champion in line or want to explore specific crossing of specific line that might later be unpractical.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

wishpoo said:


> I personally think that having more than 2 litters at the same time with Standard is really more than too much, unless breeder has extended family actively involved in training and grooming.


And I'm such a control freak when it comes to my puppies that I simply can not delegate the job to others, even in my own family.

I saw a good example this weekend. I went to a puppy evaluation party where we look at a litter at 7 weeks and give the other breeder our feedback.

A neighbor and her two <10 yr old boys were there. The breeder said that the boys had helped socialize the puppies. I was horrified to watch the boys rough house with the puppies and encourage them to bite and chase. When I went to handle a puppy they had just been playing with, the puppy tried to mouth me. Poor thing got a big surprise! 

Now that puppy quickly caught on and behaved himself (the litter had lovely temperaments) but it was a perfect example for me how I as the breeder need to be directly involved when other people handle my puppies.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

cbrand said:


> And I'm such a control freak when it comes to my puppies that I simply can not delegate the job to others, even in my own family.
> 
> I saw a good example this weekend. I went to a puppy evaluation party where we look at a litter at 7 weeks and give the other breeder our feedback.
> 
> ...



That is crazy ! See I could not let other people help raise my dogs not unless it was my sister or mother. They are the only two people I trust. I could hired kennel help to clean up and handle the other dogs but not my puppies. 

When I would have kittens I hated it when my mom would baby sit this little boy. He was sooo bad and did not listen. he would handle my kittens ruff and not hold them right. I would never bring my kittens out when he was staying over !


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## mandi (May 13, 2009)

We found a little dog by our mailbox last night...with rabies tag but that was it...of course everyone was closed so we had to bring the little guy inside...we crated him and gave him some treats and water....an hour later the neighbor down the street was driving by and asked if we had seen a little dog (it was almost dark by then) and my husband said yes we have him....the poor nieghbor is elderly and was SO RELIEVED as he was watching the dog for his daughter while she is away...and of course he somehow got out-we were relieved also as we have 3 and do not need anymore-LOL!


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

I think a lot of big breeders get away with having a large scale kennel because they can afford to. If you can hire a kennel staff, handlers, pay for all the proper health testings, puppy welpers ect you fill the top requirements of anyones who is looking for a quality puppy: health tested, AKC champion parents.

There is a large amount of AKC kennels who have 25-60 dogs whom they "show & breed" and because of that everyone over looks the fact they they keep their dogs in kennel runs and the "breeder and owner" may only touch that dog a handfull of times.

Anyway its not just Poodles a lot of breeds have them.


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Sorry, I obviously used wrong word by saying "extended" - what I meant was "other" people in the household who are experienced and actively involved in care and handling on regular bases (like the spouse , or daughter etc.). Also - cleaning part can be delegated to immediate family members.

I think that early socialization is essential for any breed and it is just unfortunate that that particular lady choose "bad socialization" partners without ever teaching them of what to do or not to do. 

Puppy can be imprinted with bad experiences and than exposure to kids can have opposite effect. 

However, there are kids who are extremely tentative, loving and gentle and would give fantastic socialization period to puppies. I personally would always rather buy a pup from a breeder who had pups exposed to many "outside world" situations - like hearing music, riding in the car, sniffing the baby and seeing the baby carriage, playing at 8 weeks with gentle kids , being accustomed to some grooming (fan, handling paws, etc.)


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## cybercat (Nov 15, 2008)

Yep, I know of a few american GDS breeders that are top in the american lines that have those big show/breeding kennels. Thank goodness that is rare though. Thanks all for refeshing my memory it has been a long time since I was looking for a breeder.


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