# Felting vs Matting



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I'm not a groomer, but I think of felting as just really bad matting. You need to shave him down if you want him to air dry or dry him with a dryer after swimming.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I too think mats and felt are degrees of the same thing. You may be able to get curls without mats by keeping him short, brushing him well before bathing, then drying without brushing. But I suspect it will depend upon his coat and how long it is - short wiry coat is less likely to mat than long soft coat.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Yeah, in the grooming world we don't call it felting, it's matting.

You can spritz him with water after you brush him out and pat the hair, maybe mix a little bit of leave in conditioner in the water.


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## KirklandPoodle (Oct 22, 2012)

Boy, if that was matting that was salvageable...I can't even imagine matting that would be worse. Ugh. Poor guy. Well, no more air dry then. And if it happens again due to circumstances (long park visit) I guess the best response would be to soak him down when we get home and lube him up with conditioner. Typically he gets blown dry after swimming trips, but he and I went on to other adventures that day and it didn't happen. I couldn't see spritzing him with water after his groom, he's too cute that way too. Not that he ever has a "not cute" day...

Thanks for answering my question and not telling me what a bad mommy I was...I'm kicking myself already...


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

You're not a bad dog mom at all! You brushed him out! You didn't leave the matting in for days and let it continue to grow and grow, and if he tolerated it then you've also trained him well!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Sometimes I let Bonnie air dry because i love all those curls! Once they get through coat change and if you trim them fairly short, you can let them air dry all curly. I use Coat Handler leave in conditioner after her bath.


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## Oreo's Mommy (Dec 18, 2012)

I never blow dry Oreo. He doesn't enjoy it and it is just too hot here. I do keep his hair pretty short though. I love the soft curles.


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## Ciscley (Jul 16, 2013)

*Coat Type + Product*

Definitely not a groomer here, but I've experienced the two ends of the poodle hair spectrum and it's relevant to the long & curly but NOT matted topic.

Danno has powder puff hair. It's super soft and fluffy. It's not coarse and tightly curled at all. After I comb through his hair it stays straight looking for days. I probably comb him more to get him tolerant of it than to actually groom him. 










I don't let him air dry because blowing him dry is the #1 way that I remove the few matts that he ever does get (arm pits mainly). And because with his health issues, I just don't like him to stay wet for any amount of time.

My original Spoo, Jules, on the other hand had this intensely curly coat. The hair I first combed would be curled again by the time I got to the last row of hair for his nightly (yes, NIGHTLY) full body line brushing.

His hair would matt in a heart beat if I didn't constantly comb and brush him. But we lived alone together and that's what we did together. We both enjoyed it.

I had actually been recommended to let his hair cord because it was so natural at it. So I kept his coat completely uncut until coat change. The photo below shows his "mock cords" as I called them. Each little clump of hair is just a natural segment of curl. It was combed and slicker brushed out every night. There were not matts. You can see how it all moves all the way down to the skin even though there was like 8+ inches of body hair. 










We quickly bailed on the cording experiment come summer, but I kept him in 3 inches of hair at a minimum until his cancer diagnosis and never blew him dry at home myself. I used leave in conditioner. I blotted him dry, NO rubbing! I used a large plastic hair pick to "comb" through the curls while damp and then I switched to ever smaller toothed combs as I combed through his hair till it was dry. In between baths I used a lot of ethnic hair care products my girlfriend recommended. The Soft & Beautiful Just for Kids line in particular. 









All of which is simply to say that long and curly does not automatically equal matted. But you have to work with the hair before it's dry and especially before the dog has rolled around on the wet hair or heaven forbid slept in it. I essentially treated my dog's entire body like it was human hair and didn't do anything to it that I wouldn't do to my niece's head. I used to even french braid his top knot so it would dry away from his face.

I do not recommend my madness, but everyone who ever met him adored running their fingers through his hair.


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## KirklandPoodle (Oct 22, 2012)

Can I quote that, "I don't recommend my madness"? It seems appropriate to all of us spoo lovers some days

In early summer I took Arthur down with a #3 comb, about 8 mms. He looked motheaten. Not enough length for either the curl to develop, and the waves just looked choppy - even though he'd been blown as straight as I could get him. That's part of what led to the 19mm curl event. He must be closer to Ciscley's Danno than her Jules, but I think he is not that soft. Everyone does comment on how soft he is though, but I wouldn't describe him as powderpuff. Rather as fresh from the dryer plush bath towel.

Outwest: one of the things that appealed to me about the Chris Christensen Kool Dryer is that it doesn't have a heater. It only uses the air from the room you are in. So it seemed a lot safer to me, so I wouldn't have to worry about overheating Arthur.

Oreo'sMommy: Does Oreo swim in saltwater? How does that go? I'd imagine a fresh water rinse afterwards. I think Arthur would love to live in Hawaii.

Ciscley: Thank you for telling me about Danno and Jules. Sounds like you gave Jules an amazing life with lots of love, and that Danno is also very lucky to have you. Absolutely gorgeous spoos! We did daily brush/comb up to and thru coat change, I knew from reading here it would be important to have him relaxed with it. Now it's about every 2-3 days, depending on what we've been doing. I do shave his armpits, as that was a frequent matt area for him and we are both happier with it short - and no one can see it, so it's like we are cheating. That kind of time, daily combing, can be so special with them. 

He was so relaxed during the big matt/felt comb out the other night. It must have been really uncomfortable with it so tight. Definitely not something I will subject him to again. Good thing the seasons are changing, I am in the mood to comb more hair. Not sure if we are going to stick with bell bottoms, or head into a conti. Hmmm.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I feel like I have the opposite problem. No matter how carefully I dry them under the warm stand dryer, I can't keep the coat straight for more than a few days! Tiger's body at the moment, it was clipped to 13 mm last weekend. In fact, I feel like I can get the long hair to stay straight longer than the short hair. :confused3:

If I wanted to keep him curly, I think 13 mm (1/2 inch) is a good length with little risk of matting.

But, how old is your dog? Don't you have a puppy? Adult coat is coarser and tends to curl nicer than soft puppy coat.


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## Oreo's Mommy (Dec 18, 2012)

Oreo does not like the waves at the beach! He does go in the little inlet of salt water when it is calm. He can swim...even has a life jacket...he just prefers to dig in the sand. It is a shame...I am two blocks ocean!


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Are you just using a comb? I wouldn't recommend just combing your dog, first I'd take a slicker brush through your dog completely, since that's much more gentle at taking mats out than picking like a comb does. I only use a comb as a 'find the tangles I missed' through dogs, not as a dematter.


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## KirklandPoodle (Oct 22, 2012)

Hi Fluffyspoos - I am using both a slicker and a comb. One definitely helps with the other. I also use a wooden pin brush and a giant wide stagger tooth comb for variety. Depending on the length, area of the body, I definitely get different results. Some day I want to spring for one of the hundred dollar awesome combs I read about on here (gosh, the manufacturer name is escaping me at the moment - as I recollect I want the silver double sided brush) and find out if it really is that much better.


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## KirklandPoodle (Oct 22, 2012)

Hi Charismatic Millie - It seems like Arthur is still a puppy, but no, he'll be 3 next month. He is just a soft and relaxed curl, a silver, if that makes any difference. I don't know that there is any correlation between curl tightness and color tho.

13mm is nice. I think Arthur is finding 19mm a bit hot for this time of year. He likes to look for sprinklers that are on when we are walking, then stands in them and has a drink. Someday someone is going to walk out of their house and ask why I am watering my dog in their yard, from their sprinkler...

How humid is Missouri?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

KirklandPoodle said:


> How humid is Missouri?


Pretty dang humid!


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## loves (Jul 2, 2013)

As a groomer I've never heard of a "felted" coat. Now, pelted coats, have heard and seen many of them and when a dog is pelted the coat is one big solid mat, comes off in one piece and all I can say is shame on the owner. As for air drying, that is the way to get curls, but it is still important to completely brush/comb through the coat then let it air dry. My favorite brush is Les Pooche Mat Zapper and then a metal comb. Chris Christianson makes awesome combs. 

A cool dryer will NOT straighten the coat and on a standard will take forever to dry the dog completely. Stand dryers are the only ones the come with actual heat settings, the others are not "heated" but the air will heat up the longer they are on. 

Best dematting is what someone already mentioned, combination of slicker type brush, a good spray and comb. Brush out a section, then go thru it with the comb. Comb doesn't go thru, then back to brushing where it sticks. Personally, I hate seeing groomers who use combs to demat, that is a lot of tugging and pulling. No wonder the dog will snap at them. Again, the mat zapper is awesome. On mats, it is simply a tap and brush, tap and brush and the mats work themselves out. CC Ice on Ice is awesome as is Nature Specialities Quicker Slicker.

He isn't matting because you are letting him airdry, but because you are not brushing him completely out before he dries.


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