# What to do with oily dog for an hour?



## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

My vet is mystified by my 16-month-old pup's hair loss and dandruff/scaling on both ears. I will take him to a dermatologist and possibly test him for SA, but meanwhile I am leaping into home treatment for SA on the theory that if it works, it increases the likelihood that this IS SA and makes it more worthwhile to pay for this costly test. Note: this is a neutered pet dog. 

My first two treatments have been briefer than intended. He hates baths and won't stay still while I am rubbing him with oil... which gets old fast for me too. Any suggestions on how to make long oil soaks more bearable for both of us? There isn't any space in our house where I can let loose an oil-coated dog other than a tiny powder room, and it's coooold outside.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

A snowsuit, to protect furnishings, and keep him warm outside?


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

A crate? Much easier to clean oil off of than walls!!!! If you don't have one....borrow one?


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks, guys. :angel: I will try the snowsuit as this may well be a lifetime proposition. The crate is perfect, of course, but it will have to wait. Unfortunately he came to me as a completely non-housetrained adult a few months ago and he is already miserable about his crate time. I am tethering him to me in the daytime and crating him at night or when I am away, but there is little if any progress. But that is another story. :Cry:


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Good for you for being matter-of-fact and proactive about this. If it's NOT SA, he will probably have the nicest conditioned hair anywhere! Not sure how often you have to do the oil treatment, but what about sometimes if you took him for a long run or walk to tire him out, then came home, did the oil treatment, and plugged in a movie for yourself and cuddled him in a fluffy towel for the hour?


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Just a thought....probably not...but here goes....when my chihuahua Emilio got his Rabies shot, about 2 weeks later all the hair on his ears disappeared, he had scaling and eventually scabs and bleeding. Turns out it was vasculitis caused by a reaction to the shot. Look up vasculitis, it was misdiagnosed by 2 vets before the 3rd vet figured it out  They can get vasculitis without a shot too.


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## Dawnsohma (Jan 24, 2013)

what kind of dog food are you feeding??? normally when dogs have skin problems that is the first thing to check.


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

Indiana said:


> Not sure how often you have to do the oil treatment, but what about sometimes if you took him for a long run or walk to tire him out, then came home, did the oil treatment, and plugged in a movie for yourself and cuddled him in a fluffy towel for the hour?


It sounds great in theory... especially he is in his new snowsuit for those moments when he just has to jump down and chase the cat or fight with his sister over a chewy. Thanks to all of you guys for helping me see how this onerous routine can be normalized.

As for the idea of vasculitis, he doesn't (yet) look like any of the pix of it I see
online -- no inflammation as yet -- but you make it all the more clear that he needs to see a dermatologist and I will ask her/him about it.


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

Dawnsohma said:


> what kind of dog food are you feeding??? normally when dogs have skin problems that is the first thing to check.


 I am feeding them Orijen kibble with yogurt and a spoon or two of canned dog food i(Cesar or Drs Foster/Smith st the moment) in the am, with a sprinkling of dental supplements (either seaweed or some white stuff my vet gave me). At night they get cooked meat, canned mackerel or salmon (packed in water, no salt added), or egg, together with a spoon of cottage cheese and sometimes a little more Orijen kibble. Mashed sweet potato once a week and raw, somewhat meaty bones also about once a week. They have been getting a lot of Zeke's Natural treats lately too. Oh, and they get Stella and Chewy's raw medallions or whatever they are called for snacks or toppings, the duck version right now. 

Does anything sound suspect? You probably didn't mean for me to write it all down here, but I get your point -- this is definitely something to list for the dermatologist and/or my regular vet. Thanks for that important tip.


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## Dawnsohma (Jan 24, 2013)

id skip the Cesars all together it has meat by products otherwise looks great. maybe try feeding a few less things because there is a possibility he may be allergic to something.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

North JerseyGirrl, I also think I'd skip the Cesar's. I hope you get all this figured out. It sounds like you have lots to deal with in getting this baby all figured out. I hope you will keep us updated and that we will hear good news soon.


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## Ladywolfe (Jan 11, 2012)

What kind of oil do you use on him? I have been heading into all-natural cleaners and beauty products, DIY. After a few months of this, I have started to wonder about these products for my dogs. I conditioned my own hair overnight with nothing more than coconut oil, and I couldn't believe how well it worked. Some people sy it is one of the few natual oils that penetrates the hair shaft. Of course, my next thought was poodle hair. I am going to try this, so I wondered what type of oil you are using?


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## HerdingStdPoodle (Oct 17, 2012)

*Oily Dog*

I'm wondering too...what kind of oil are you talking about and what do you mean by a snowsuit? Sorry, I'm lost. HerdingStdPoodle


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I can't say anything about the oil, but here is what we are talking about in terms of snow suits. The way it looks outside my window right now Lily will need hers the next time she goes out.


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

So far I am using baby oil because it was what I found in the grocery store, but it doesn't wash out well. I have ordered this stuff which sounds better.




 If it doesn't work well I'll try coconut oil -- do you think you could update us on how it works on your poodle, Ladywolfe?

Have ordered some different, limited ingredient dog food. I will give the Cesars we have to our feral cat colony. It will be a treat for them in the big snowstorm we are getting ready for here. 

And lily, I mean Catherine lol, you are right about having my hands full with this baby. I got him from a top breeder but apart from being beautiful and totally sweet, he seems more like a rescue dog. Oh well, we love our chocolate-eyed boy.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

His color is beautiful. My mom has an apricot mini boy who will be six months old at the end of the month. I hope his color holds since he is almost a red in his puppy coat. I also hope you get all your problems fixed asap.


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

Oh thank you but the dog in my avatar is my old dog, who was killed the summer before last in an accident at her groomer's. He left an outer door open.... She was only four. Her coat was red to start with but faded to apricot. 

My poodles now are red/apricot (also with fading, but less) and coal-black. The black one is the one I am writing about in this thread. I have never left either of them with anyone but my husband and, once, his daughter, an animal-loving medical student. We don't travel much these days....


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Ditto....everything sounds good EXCEPT the Ceasar's. Why not just leave it out for a bit.


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks. It's gone. I also decided to drop a dental additive that I have been putting in their water. I got it on Ebay and who knows if it is really what it is supposed to be.


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## Apres Argent (Aug 9, 2010)

I am confused.....

SA is diagnosed by a biopsy OFA instructions and approved labs listed below. 
The ear seems to be a common first site of expression. You can crate a dog soaking in oil for an hour or so with a kong to keep him occupied. UC Davis is still looking for samples from affected Poodles. Links below. Also please take the time to report to PHR. 
UC Davis 
Some info and also links for submission forms
UC Davis School of Vet Med: Center for Companion Animal Health: Poodle Club of America Foundation supports study in sebaceous adenitis in Standard Poodles

Submission form
http://www.poodleclubofamerica.org/files/pcaf/SA_Study.pdf
OFA Biopsy Information
http://www.offa.org/pdf/saapp_bw.pdf

PHR report form
http://www.poodlehealthregistry.org/docs/PHR_RegistrationForm_0212.pdf


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

What is confusing you? 

I have read on this site that the test is expensive and elsewhere that it often gives false negatives which means I might need to do it more than once. If my vet does the biopsy, she would want to do it under sedation which only adds to the cost. As I said, I am starting with the recommended home treatment which, correct me if I am wrong, is the only remedy - it is not a curable condition. If I do the test and get a positive, the home treatment is what I would do next anyway! If the treatment works, that gives me more reason to think it is SA and do the test. The only real reason I have to do the test which may not even give me a true result is that a diagnosis will allow me to get a refund from the breeder who sold me this dog in November. Again, this is not a breeding dog, but a neutered pet. 

If I go ahead with the test, I will work with OFFA and PHR, but the UC Davis study is for standards only, right? Mine are toys. 

I did not realize that ears are a common first site for symptoms. Ugh.... it makes it even more likely. But as of now I am still thinking a visit to a dermatologist who might be able to rule out (or in) other possible conditions is a higher priority than the test. A dermatologist may also know how to do the biopsy with local anesthesia only. But your further thoughts are welcome. 

Meanwhile, I am also trying unsuccessfully to get a urine sample from the same dog because he drinks way too much (water, LOL!) which is not helping the housetraining. My vet says it could be due to any number of things. If anyone has tips on how to do that, please let me know! I am following him around holding a plastic cup with long cooking tongs, but he just turns around and stares at me and refuses to pee. But at the moment he is getting a break from my pursuit because of the snowstorm.


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## Apres Argent (Aug 9, 2010)

The biopsy is pretty simple and straight forward. Most vets can follow the OFA directions and do an SA biopsy. I pay 50.00 for vet to take samples then lab fee's, I have heard of people paying much more. Yes the study is mainly standards but it is not unheard of in other varieties.


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## Ladywolfe (Jan 11, 2012)

Darn, my first response accidentally got deleted. Well, my (also black) spoo is now coated in coconut oil. I meant to do it before bed last night, but will try to leave this on him for 5 or more hrs today. It is not supposed to stain like a lot of other oils, and is rumored to wash out easily. The dog loved the smell, and it wont hurt him a bit if he licks it. I don't think baby oil is too good to eat. LOL. Another bonus is, my hands are soft and smooth from the application & my dog loved the smell of it. This is a nice treatment for paw pads, as well.

I can think of a ton of other natural oils that can be used, and can even be infused for any scent you might like, (think peppermint, or euclalyptus for flea deterrent, etc.) The thing is, this is rather inexpensive, one ingredient, simple, and can be used for your own hair/skin softening and a million other things, including cooking. Sort of, more bang for the buck.

I will let you all know what the end result is. But, I can say, his skin and hair soaked this stuff right up. And, while it is on, he is that super shiny black color. His winter skin was getting sort of faded looking. And, hey, we can all use a "spa day" once in a while. Maybe I should be coated in oil from head to "tail" too today. LOL


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

*NorthJerseyGirrl*: So sorry to hear what you're dealing with! Just want to mention the Watchung Mountain Poodle Club Health Clinic and Screening is held annually in August at Top Dog Flanders, NJ and offers the SA tests without sedation. Last year the fee was $40 for the biopsy, and I think $60 for the lab fee and $7.50 for OFA registration.

This video shows how to collect a urine sample, though I realize it makes it look easier than it may be!
How to obtain a urine sample from your dog - YouTube

I so wish you the best of luck with everything. Do I recall correctly that your other toy had some dental problems? Oh my gosh, even if not, you've sure been through the mill!! Hope things will get better. I know collecting a urine sample in the winter wonderland we have right now will probably be next to impossible, but it's forecast to warm up a lot so maybe you'll have better luck next week. Hang in there!!:clover:

ETA: A friend of mine told me the easiest way to collect a urine sample is to use a long handled large cooking spoon or a soup ladle. It worked like a charm for her.


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

Ladywolfe, thanks for the update. Wow, a 5-hr soak. That is one patient dog you have! Please let us know how it washes out and what the general effect is. Where do you get this oil? What are the other natural oils you are talking about? I have to say I love coconut so this one does sound very nice to me, and ditto for the soft hand effect. 

Chagall's Mom, yes, you remember rightly that my other pup has had significant dental problems (although her new regular vet thinks that the dental specialist exaggerated them somewhat). Thank you for your sympathy! I am indeed overwhelmed and have been slacking on both grooming and dental care since the holidays (which were totally exhausting!) but gradually am getting back into the groove. 

I spoke to my brother last night, a vet in another state, and he too (like Apres Argent) seems to lean toward doing the SA test sooner rather than later. His only other suggestion was scabies and it doesn't sound like that at all (thank heavens). My next step is to send pix to the dog's breeder and see if she has any immediate ideas. Then back to a/the vet next week after getting the #%^*$& urine sample. Thanks for the youtube, CM. It is NOT that easy!!! But I will try a shallower cup and a ladle and see if they help. My dog just does not like my creeping up under him. I guess I have to work on my speed. :car:

ETA: CM, I forgot to thank you for the info on discount SA biopsies with local anesthesia! I will definitely keep that in mind!


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## Ladywolfe (Jan 11, 2012)

While I was hoping for wonderful improvements, I gotta say it improved his color and "dandruff" but probably no better than other products. If staying natural is important, might be worth it. If not, probably not worth the extra efforts. You can buy this at many grocers and likely all natural foods stores.


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

It's a good start though, no? I just oiled my guy (in a crate, with a kong) with grapeseed oil that we had iin the pantry. It definitely washed out better than the baby oil. It will take time to see how it works for the skin/hair problem. Anyway thanks for the ideas!

He ignored the kong and screamed for the whole hour. He really hates the crate because of having to spend his nights there in exile from the family bed, due to his weaknesses in the housetraining dept.


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## Ladywolfe (Jan 11, 2012)

Poor guy. Maybe you should oil him at bedtime, and let him spend the night in the crate; or would he lick if off all night?


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

How about giving him a raw bone to eat when you put him in the crate. It is great for his teeth and will help calm him. I would also feed him in the crate so it does not feel like jail. I have not seen Susan Garret's crate games video but all her stuff seems great.


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

Thank you, I think the raw bone in the crate should work better. I am leery of leaving him oiled up all night esp. since the thought of a greasy dog first thing in the morning, jumping all over me and everything else until I could get him shampooed... before I could even have my COFFEE  ... is more than I could face. :afraid: I also think and hope that he will not need seven-hour soaks. I guess time will tell. Thanks for all the input!!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I have on occasion used warm olive oil on my hair and it was easy to wash out. I think a oiled dog is hard to stomach first thing in the morning. I also think the dog would feel cold spending the night greased up. Collecting a urine sample does not sound like fun but I bet it is funny to observe. I can just imagine your boy shooting you dirty looks as he tries to do his business in peace. The ladle is a great idea but the mental picture makes me giggle. Kudos to you for being proactive treating your dog.


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

You are right on about the dirty looks. Now you are making me laugh. Better that than weeping! 

I am going to try the grapeseed oil on my own hair. I can use some more shine myself! And it is a lot less smelly than any of the other oils in our pantry.


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## DavidT (Apr 15, 2010)

Hi,
I can only tell you what we do with our male Standard Poodle w/ SA. 

We started out doing what you are doing....traditional oil bath, put in crate for an hour, wash/rinse etc. etc. until I was told about a Poodle person that had been working on a special goat milk soap and special oil treatment that she had good results with. We have now been using it for about 2 years and while it doesn't make the SA go away completely it definitely has helped and the process is comparatively easy. Basically, the process is to wash the dog with the soap, followed by a vinegar rinse and then dry the dog. After that, you spray the dog with this oil product, rub it in a little. I then, take our dog out for "Frisbee" time for a short while and when brought back in he is dry.

If you are interested contact....Sheree Stone at 1-832-212-1306 or [email protected] (she is in Texas I think)

Hope this helps,

DavidT


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

Thank you. I may give that a try. I am not seeng any new hair growth yet from the "standard" treatment, but he's only had four of them. I don't think there is any new flaking, but the ears are still losing hair. 

When you spray him with that oil does it dry non-greasy?


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## DavidT (Apr 15, 2010)

Hi again,

It does seem a little greasy for a short while, but goes away and doesn't seem to leave oil on anything that we have noticed. Smells fairly strong for awhile also. Also, if you go to arpeggiiopoodles.tripod.com/growinghaironadoorknob.html there is a recipe entitled "Growing Hair on a Doorknob". I have not tried this, but if you do, please let me know how it worked.

DavidT


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

Oh, I remember seeing that piece. Now I know what she was talking about. I will take another look at it. Thanks.

ETA: I'm guessing it was the price of the Lixotinic that kept you from trying the doorknob hair formula (over $100/gallon)? Yikes. I will keep it in mind though. Desperate times call....


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