# Service dog questions (LONG)



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

I see some problems.

Most of the time, service dogs are not allowed in hospitals. Who will take the dog out? They usually come into ER, and then someone (family/friend) comes to take the dog home.

Most service dog trainers and organizations will not work with a family with an additional dog.

There is no such thing as a "hypoallergenic dog". Poodles may not shed, but they have equally as much dander. Plus their coarse coat can hold an enormous amount of dander. There is not much hope that she would not have allergic reaction to a poodle.

If she is only out of bed 1 hour a day, they a service dog helping support her body weight is not practical. A walker is more reasonable.

As a service dog trainer, I would say no - a service dog is highly unlikely to work in your family. I am very sad for your family's situation, but I know a failed attempt at a service dog will hurt everyone worse. I know you are trying to find some hope and "sunlight" in your daughter's life but I don't think this is it.

Is she allergice to cats? A nice lazy cat that will purr in bed with her all day would be a better fit than a highly energetic and brilliantly smart dog that isn't getting the exercise or training that it needs. You could also look at other pets like a guinea pig. NOT A RABBIT - when startled they can kick hard enough to knock the wind of a person, could be very damaging for your daughter.

I truly wish you the best and am happy to answer questions. (((hugs)))


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

I need to clarify a bit. Chase is currently not allowed out of bed due to a spinal headache, not because of the disease. Because they had to poke her so many times this headache could last for at least 2 weeks and if it last longer than that they will have to do a blood patch to fix the slow leak that they believe is causing the headache.

I don't understand how a service dog would not be allowed in hospitals. She will have to be at the hospital (the oncology clinic) once every other week for a 1 hour infusion. For the first 10 infusions she will have to stay overnight due to possible side effects but after that she will not. We also can set up home health to do them and they said when she is older she can do it herself at home.

My understanding is that right now we are having so many hospital visits due to the disease not being "under control" because she has not yet started IV therapy.

Our concern is that she will no longer have the mobility that she used to have due to stability when walking issues. The enlarged liver and spleen will be a life-long complication of the disease and she will always be a fall risk because of that. The IV therapy should decrease the size of her liver and spleen and the *hope* is that they will go back to normal sizes.

We have one child who is allergic to piggy's, rabbits and the ferrets we currently own. He delevoped the allergy after we had already had the ferrets for 6 months and it is a contact allergy so we keep him away from areas that the ferrets are in or until that area has been cleaned. As far as cats .. our landlords don't care how many dogs we have BUT it is in the lease no cats! Chase is not allergic to any animals, that we know of.

We have a meeting with a group who helps to train service dogs but they use goodlendoodles on Thursday.


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

how come they wont place a service dog in a home with pet dogs already? Is it a training issue?


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## Arcticfox (Dec 12, 2011)

tortoise said:


> IMost of the time, service dogs are not allowed in hospitals. Who will take the dog out? They usually come into ER, and then someone (family/friend) comes to take the dog home.


I am confused about this part. I guess all hospitals have different policies, or maybe differ with geographical location and local laws. The hospital I work at clearly state in its policies that service animals are allowed anywhere the patient is allowed to go, except for sterile areas like special procedure rooms or the OR. I think it's part of their accessibility act or something. 

Actually, when I went up to the ICU for morning rounds a few days ago, there was one patient who had a note taped on their door warning the staff to be careful when the patient's dog visits, apparently, the dog is very protective of the owner and will bite. I don't think it's even a service dog, they aren't supposed to pass any that have aggression issues, are they? So yeah, apparently the hospital I work in has a pretty lax policy about pets.


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

My (very limited) knowledge of service dogs was that if a dog is aggressive they are not able to be a service dog. 

I did check with the Children's hospital and service dogs are allowed the same access that patients are with the expection of surgery areas or in the case if it is a danger to another patient. The example I was given was if a patient has open wounds that dog hair could get into that would be a reason to say that no the service dog could not be with Chase or if the room was not large enough to accomadate both Chase, the dog, and the doctors.


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## Ginagbaby1 (Aug 1, 2011)

My 8 yr old son is an insulin dependent Type 1 Diabetic. Although we are no where near where your daughter is with her condition, I understand how you feel. For my son, a simple stomach bug usually always lands him in the PICU. I'm so sorry that your daughter is going through this...

We know of a family who has a Diabetic Assistance Dog for their 8 yr old daughter and he is allowed to go anywhere that she does unless it is a sterile environment such as an OR setting. (He detects low/high blood sugars). Our kids have the same Endocronologist and the dog, in their case a lab, goes to all her appointments in the medical office building. When this family obtained their dog, they already two other dogs, (a rotti and terrier mix) as well as a rabbit and a guinea pig. I'm not sure if this is the same for all service dog organizations though. 

As far as a hypo allergernic dog, although poodles do not shed, they still produce dander and there is no way to guarantee that someone in the family will not be allergice to the dog.


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

I did find a training center that trains your dog as a service dog. They are the only training center (I googled to double check what was stated on their website but did not find any others) in my state that is certified as a Diabetic Service Dog training facility. 

I did not have a lot of time to look today (mid-terms due this week) but so far what I am seeing, as far as training, looks very promising.

*ETA*
My understanding of allergies (for animals anyway) is that it depends on the specific animal. It was suggest to us that we have the person who is allergic pet the animal and then rub their hands on their face, have the dog lick their face, etc because the allergic reaction could be to more than just dander, and is specific to a specific animal, even amongst littermates.

Also the headaches are believed to be because of the spinal not her disease as there is currently no studies to show that people who have this disease onset in childhood have headaches as an ongoing problem. We cannot say for certian that the headaches are not caused by the disease. She did not have any headaches until after the spinal and the doctors seem really outspoken that this is because of the spinal. Sorry I am not being as clear as I should be. It is all still so new to us and I am still learning about this disease.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think you need to pause, and take a little time to absorb all these difficult changes that have hit you all so hard. Concentrate for now on getting your daughter's condition stabilised. Once you have a clearer idea of exactly what support she will need in the future - and it will probably take several months for a routine to emerge - you will be able to discuss those needs in detail with an experienced Service Dog training organisation, and get their advice on what aspects a dog may be able to help her with. At the moment, it sounds as if it is all very much of a shock, and you are very understandably desperately trying to find anything that might make your daughter's life easier and happier - but just now you need time to get over the shock, and to adapt your family life to all the changes. It is not a good time to be bringing a new puppy or a new dog into your home.

In the meantime, it would be a good idea to look for opportunities for your son to interact with poodles - both adults and puppies. Some people are allergic to puppies, some people have faced the heartbreaking decision to rehome their dog when they found they were allergic to the adult coat. And getting in touch with service dog training organisations, so that you know their capabilities and constraints, will of course help with your thinking. But take it slowly - as you say, you are still learning, and you have a great deal to come to terms with.

Please do keep posting though - whether for information, to update us, or just for a comforting shoulder to lean upon.


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

My understanding is that it will take, at the minimum a year, to even find a suitable canidate for a service dog and that is if it is an adult and not a puppy. Added to that is trying to find a training facility can add time to that as well.

The thoughts/posts here are just to help me feel like I am doing something to help. It is really difficult to not be able to do something to "fix" what she is going through. It is hard to watch my once active, healthy, child now unable to bend over to pick something up (liver and spleen), or be so lightheaded (don't know what that is from) that she passes out just from walking to the bathroom. Up until she was admitted she was fine with no health complaints. She had just been to her ped and everything was fine. Even her bloodwork from when she was first admitted was normal other than slight anemia. To see her upset because she cannot go to bathroom, walk to the livingroom, or even just run around the backyard with our dogs like she used to. It really is a helpless feeling.

Our pets have been a God send in that they are very good at reducing her anxiety and feeling alone right now.


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## DivinityPoodles (Jan 23, 2012)

Regarding the allergies...

the 3 of my children who are allergic to dogs are allergic to our poodles. The up side is that they are allergic to the saliva (a lot of people are allergic to the saliva of an animal & don't realize it as they will have a reaction to fur - which usually has been licked at some point) so the dogs are encouraged not to lick them. 

I wish you the best of luck at this time.

God bless.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

I join the others in sending well wishes for your daughter. I think you're remarkable for being so resourceful and eager to get her the assistance she'll to get on with her life. The hospital I worked at in New Jersey_ did_ allow service dogs access to all but a few restricted areas, like the OR and other sterile areas. Therapy dog visits were just catching on back then, and just yesterday I read about pilot a program to allow some patients visits from their _pet_ dogs, now that's progress!! I hope things progress well for your family, and wish you continued strength as you champion your daughter's recovery. It haunts me to think her young life has had such an upheaval. It's amazing how much we all take for granted! Your family being service dog savvy already is sure to help. I'll keep my fingers crossed that there will be no impediment to adding another. Good luck on your exams!!:clover:


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Luvmyspoos said:


> Regarding the allergies...
> 
> the 3 of my children who are allergic to dogs are allergic to our poodles. The up side is that they are allergic to the saliva (a lot of people are allergic to the saliva of an animal & don't realize it as they will have a reaction to fur - which usually has been licked at some point) so the dogs are encouraged not to lick them.
> 
> ...


Interesting as I have had allergies since a child, got allergy shots for almost 12 years, and am currently seeing another allergist and being tested again next week. I have had poodles for 30 years and have never been allergic to them; however, cats are terrible and there are many dogs I cannot be around. So, I believe it very much depends on the individual.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

GlennBaxterFamily said:


> My (very limited) knowledge of service dogs was that if a dog is aggressive they are not able to be a service dog.
> 
> I did check with the Children's hospital and service dogs are allowed the same access that patients are with the expection of surgery areas or in the case if it is a danger to another patient. The example I was given was if a patient has open wounds that dog hair could get into that would be a reason to say that no the service dog could not be with Chase or if the room was not large enough to accomadate both Chase, the dog, and the doctors.


I think Sookster also trains service dogs, perhaps she has some additional advice she can add for you.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

liljaker said:


> I think Sookster also trains service dogs, perhaps she has some additional advice she can add for you.


Agree! Sookster could be a wonderful, reliable resource here! And maybe reach out to another one of our members, Karma'sACat, she uses a standard poodle service dog, Cole, and is sure to be a source of sound information. I don't know whether you're familiar with the Private Messaging (PM) feature here, but you can use it to contact members directly if you like.:clover:


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

tortoise said:


> Most of the time, service dogs are not allowed in hospitals.





Arcticfox said:


> I am confused about this part. I guess all hospitals have different policies, or maybe differ with geographical location and local laws. The hospital I work at clearly state in its policies that service animals are allowed anywhere the patient is allowed to go, except for sterile areas like special procedure rooms or the OR. I think it's part of their accessibility act or something.
> 
> ...So yeah, apparently the hospital I work in has a pretty lax policy about pets.





Chagall's mom said:


> ...The hospital I worked at in New Jersey_ did_ allow service dogs access to all but a few restricted areas, like the OR and other sterile areas. Therapy dog visits were just catching on back then, and just yesterday I read about pilot a program to allow some patients visits from their _pet_ dogs, now that's progress!!


I work for a disability rights advocacy agency in North Dakota - From time to time we get calls from clients who have service animals and they have problems about where the animals have or have not been allowed to go. I'm not familiar with all aspects of the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), but there must be someone in your state who is - all 50 states have a state-run Protection and Advocacy Project that advocates to protect the rights of people with disabilities.

My only experience with taking an animal into the hospital was when my (now 21 year old) daughter had her tonsils removed when she was 6 years old. She was in her hospital room post-surgery and was desperately (almost frantically) wanting to see her cat! The hospital staff took pity on her and allowed us to bring SugarPlum in to see Katy - this pound kitty was no "service animal" and our daughter did not have a "disability", they just knew she'd calm down and begin her recovery more successfully if she had a chance to snuggle and stroke her pet. They just wanted to ensure that Sugar had her shots up to date (rabies, mostly) and they wanted us to bring her in using a carrier - but then she was allowed to lie on Katy's bed until she was ready for us to take the kitty home!

I would have to guess each hospital could make their own guidelines up to a point -but if it falls under the ADA, they're compelled to allow a service animal in certain situations.

Keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers, GBF. Hoping everything starts getting better soon and you're able to do what's best for your daughter!

Barb


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## TammyQ (Feb 10, 2012)

GlenBaxterFamily: If you would contact me in a private message I will give you the contact information for the service dog organization I work with (in Bellingham, WA). We are one of the very few organizations who train service dogs for children, and our director can probably help you with all your questions.


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## Pudel-Fan (Nov 1, 2011)

GlenBaxterFamily, I am sorry to hear about your daughter's health problems. You have a lot of things to deal with now and it must be hard on everyone to be going through this. It will take some time to find an organization that trains service dogs and most likely you will have to wait on a list, so there is nothing wrong with checking things out now.

I think a standard poodle would make a good choice, if you keep the coat short, bath it often and feed a high quality diet (diet has a great affect on skin and coat), dander isn't going to be a big problem as several have mentioned the saliva is what many people have a reaction to and that can be managed. But you would have to see what the training organization has available and how they select their dogs.

I wish you the best of luck and hope having something to look forward to will help cheer your daughter up.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I am so sorry that your daughter and your family are going through all this. My niece did the preliminary training of a service dog for a man who is functionally blind and has balance issues. Her dog was chosen because he is very smart and very large (a big lab). I wonder if a standard poodle would have the mass needed to handle the balance issues? The person who received her dog is a runner and despite his vision and balance issues has been able to stay active and continue running with the dog's help. My prayers are with you and your family.


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

Some good news ... The other three children were tested to see if they have this same disease and none of them do! Two are carriers and the youngest is not a carrier!


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the well-wishes, prayers, thoughts, ideas, and opinions.

I think that I was not clear enough in my initial post and in my responses. I started this thread more to have my thoughts on paper (I "think" better that way) and to get some input. We have no intentions of going out tomorrow and getting a puppy or dog. 

I know from talking to others that finding a good breeder, with a suitable pup, can take a year if not more. In our situation I figured it would take at the minimum a year. Not to mention it is going to take until this summer to "get a handle" on my daughter disease and what she will need in the long term.

I am doing my research to find what will be the best fit for us. Whether that is through an organization or us privately training our own dog has not been decided. There are several organizations that will help us to train our own dog as well as a private training facility that also trains services dogs that the owner acquires. We have a lot of options and I need to research them all!

I think it is important for people to realize there are a wide range of service dogs that require different types of training and amounts of training. A guide dog or alert dog is going to require more intensive training than a service dog that is used to carry oxygen and retrieve medication on command, or a Psychiatric Service Dog.


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

CT Girl said:


> I am so sorry that your daughter and your family are going through all this. My niece did the preliminary training of a service dog for a man who is functionally blind and has balance issues. Her dog was chosen because he is very smart and very large (a big lab). I wonder if a standard poodle would have the mass needed to handle the balance issues? The person who received her dog is a runner and despite his vision and balance issues has been able to stay active and continue running with the dog's help. My prayers are with you and your family.


I am not sure about the balance and poodles either. Chase is on the smaller side (5'2" and 121 we just got updated weight and I was wrong in my first post about how tall she is) but I just am not sure if a standard poodle is fesiable for her, which is why I posted 

We have been pumping her full of Mountain Dew (for the caffeine) per doctor’s orders and the headache and balance issues are very slight now and seem to be going away. I am not sure if she will require more lumbar punctures or Bone Marrow Biopsy’s or if the headache/balance issue will return if she does.

Still a lot to learn about Chase's specific problems with this disease since it can have a pretty large varience between each person.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

GlennBaxterFamily said:


> A guide dog or alert dog is going to require more intensive training than a service dog that is used to carry oxygen and retrieve medication on command, or a Psychiatric Service Dog.


Incorrect! Psychiatric Service Dogs are arguably the most sensitive group of service dogs and training (and maintaining that training!) is more challenging because the disabilities of the handler inhibit training. They must meet the same industry standards as other service dogs.

I think sorting out what you want a dog to DO will be a starting place. You cannot choose a dog if you do not know what you want it to do!


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

tortoise said:


> Incorrect! Psychiatric Service Dogs are arguably the most sensitive group of service dogs and training (and maintaining that training!) is more challenging because the disabilities of the handler inhibit training. They must meet the same industry standards as other service dogs.
> 
> I think sorting out what you want a dog to DO will be a starting place. You cannot choose a dog if you do not know what you want it to do!


As I stated in my other response how much training a service dog is going to require is going to depend on what things that service dog is going to be required to perform, that includes Psychiatric Service Dogs. If the dog is being trained for someone with PTSD or to recognize Bipolar symptoms then yes they would require more training than a service dog who is going to be used for someone who suffers from depression. That being said the "standard" obedience is the same for every service dog regardless of what they are being trained for. Where the specific training comes in is with the specific person, their disability, their needs, and what they require of the service dog.

The same goes for mobility service dogs. There is a huge amount of varience of needs that service dogs are trained to meet, and some require more training than others!


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

GlennBaxterFamily said:


> As I stated in my other response how much training a service dog is going to require is going to depend on what things that service dog is going to be required to perform, that includes Psychiatric Service Dogs. If the dog is being trained for someone with PTSD or to recognize Bipolar symptoms then yes they would require more training than a service dog who is going to be used for someone who suffers from depression. That being said the "standard" obedience is the same for every service dog regardless of what they are being trained for. Where the specific training comes in is with the specific person, their disability, their needs, and what they require of the service dog.
> 
> The same goes for mobility service dogs. There is a huge amount of varience of needs that service dogs are trained to meet, and some require more training than others!


The difference between a service dog for depression and one for bipolar disorder is about 4 behaviors. Task training is remarkably similar among all but "guide dogs", there are 6 core foundation behaviors common to all tasks. 7, if you include scent discrimination.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

GlennBaxterFamily said:


> Some good news ... The other three children were tested to see if they have this same disease and none of them do! Two are carriers and the youngest is not a carrier!


How encouraging to hear some good news in the midst of such a difficult and worrying situation! I'm so glad to hear your daughter's headaches are subsiding, that's terrific. Sounds like you're on the right path with your service dog research, too. Good of you to let us know. I hope this is the start of even more good news to come.:clover:


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

tortoise said:


> The difference between a service dog for depression and one for bipolar disorder is about 4 behaviors. Task training is remarkably similar among all but "guide dogs", there are 6 core foundation behaviors common to all tasks. 7, if you include scent discrimination.


I stand by what I said, which has been "backed-up" by several service dog trainers, organizations, and a private service dog training facility in my state. Yes there is a standard "guideline" to what the training should include or focus on but again this varies greatly by the organization, trainer, or private training facility.

I agree to disagree with much of what you have posted (in my thread) as I know from personal experience and research; it is inaccurate in our specific situation. What you state as fact, is in fact, your own personal opinion, your personal training preferences, and your personal experiences. One (of several) specific example of that is stating that hospitals do not allow service animals to accompany their handler in a hospital ER. This is not true according to the Children’s hospitals that I checked with in my state and surrounding states, and according to other posters.

What I have the biggest problem with is others who read this thread are going to assume that you are stating fact and not recognize it as your personal opinion. Not everyone is going to double check facts and could become discouraged by what is posted. People in situations like ours are emotional and mentally tired. There is a lot of conflicting information out "there" and to have that further confused by people who do not clearly state that what they are saying is their own personal opinion is discouraging.

I have been in contact with several trainers, an organization, and a private service dog training facility that have no problem at all training a puppy that we picked, and is our personal dog, as a service dog. Again your personal training preferences is just that, your opinion and preference. 

I have a background in professional dog training, training a service dog (that was our personal dog) for a person in my home, and psychology - crisis counseling. I am not an “average” owner, who knows very little about what we are facing or attempting to accomplish. 

I am able to recognize personal opinions when I see them, not everyone is.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

GlennBaxterFamily said:


> I stand by what I said, which has been "backed-up" by several service dog trainers, organizations, and a private service dog training facility in my state. Yes there is a standard "guideline" to what the training should include or focus on but again this varies greatly by the organization, trainer, or private training facility.
> 
> I agree to disagree with much of what you have posted (in my thread) as I know from personal experience and research; it is inaccurate in our specific situation. What you state as fact, is in fact, your own personal opinion, your personal training preferences, and your personal experiences. One (of several) specific example of that is stating that hospitals do not allow service animals to accompany their handler in a hospital ER. This is not true according to the Children’s hospitals that I checked with in my state and surrounding states, and according to other posters.
> 
> ...


Until I became disabled, I was a service dog trainer. My clients and I have had problems with hospitals. In general, the larger the hospital, the better they are. I said that the dogs ARE allowed in ER until someone could pick them up, and if I didn't it's a typo (I do that a lot). 

I've been in the ER with a service dog and fought this before. I'm cautioning you to be sure that your goal of having a dog in the hospital with your daughter can actually be accomplished. A hospital CAN decline to allow a service dog in IF they provide a person to provide the same tasks that the dog performs. Once you're in the situation, there is almost nothing you can do if you are not well enough to speak. FWIW, in my experience Children's Hospitals have been the most accepting of service dogs.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Tortoise, it sounds like Wisconsin is backwards in regards to service dogs. The hospitals in my area are usually very accomodating to service dogs and those that are not might face a challange by using the Americans with Disabilities Act. 

GlennBaxterFamily, you must be so relieved that no one else in your family will suffer from this disease and I am so glad to hear of Chase's improvement. I think it was clear from your post that you were not going to run out and get a puppy. I know the lab that my niece raised had a year of specialized training for his owner's balance issues. Although you sound like a highly capable trainer you might in this instance let a service dog organization train the dog in this. You have so much on your plate already. Since there is the potential for balance issues even if slight I would suggest you ask the dog to be trained for it just in case. I hope that Chase continues to improve. It must be of great comfort to her to have such strong family support.


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

tortoise said:


> Until I became disabled, I was a service dog trainer. My clients and I have had problems with hospitals. In general, the larger the hospital, the better they are. I said that the dogs ARE allowed in ER until someone could pick them up, and if I didn't it's a typo (I do that a lot).
> 
> I've been in the ER with a service dog and fought this before. I'm cautioning you to be sure that your goal of having a dog in the hospital with your daughter can actually be accomplished. A hospital CAN decline to allow a service dog in IF they provide a person to provide the same tasks that the dog performs. Once you're in the situation, there is almost nothing you can do if you are not well enough to speak. FWIW, in my experience Children's Hospitals have been the most accepting of service dogs.


Your experiences are just that yours, and from what I have gathered not only in my personal experience, but from other posters, it is not what the majority of others have experienced. 

Believe me I totally understand making typo's and spelling mistakes, which is why I am very careful to write everything out in a word document and then copy and paste it into the response. Even then I still make errors that even a 2nd grader would not. I don’t know if anyone noticed but every single post I have made has been edited at least once due to spelling and or grammar errors that I typically make every time I write. Since I am a full-time college student (only electives left and I will be done) I have to be extra careful. I attended college online so I am very aware of how I come across to others when I post a thread, I would not have made the Dean’s List last semester if I was not so careful. I tend to be less careful on a forum.

That being said I would encourage you to be careful how you state things because it is misleading and confusing at times. It is great to have input about what other people have experienced but to state them as a fact rather than your opinion or experience is misleading and inaccurate to say the least. 

The training, opinions, thoughts, and ideas in the service dog training world move at a fast pace. What was acceptable 10 years ago, heck even 2 years ago, may not apply today.


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

CT Girl said:


> Tortoise, it sounds like Wisconsin is backwards in regards to service dogs. The hospitals in my area are usually very accomodating to service dogs and those that are not might face a challange by using the Americans with Disabilities Act.
> 
> GlennBaxterFamily, you must be so relieved that no one else in your family will suffer from this disease and I am so glad to hear of Chase's improvement. I think it was clear from your post that you were not going to run out and get a puppy. I know the lab that my niece raised had a year of specialized training for his owner's balance issues. Although you sound like a highly capable trainer you might in this instance let a service dog organization train the dog in this. You have so much on your plate already. Since there is the potential for balance issues even if slight I would suggest you ask the dog to be trained for it just in case. I hope that Chase continues to improve. It must be of great comfort to her to have such strong family support.


I am definitely getting a professional to help us train the puppy/dog we get. I have not professionally trained in about 3 years and trained the service dog for a family member two years ago. There is no way that I am up to par to train a service dog for what Chase is going to need. Give me a pup/dog that needs basics to intermediate and I am confident I could train a well mannered dog but service dog .. no way!

As the oldest of 11 children, what I consider to be a normal day most would say is just to busy, with to much on our plates. I have every confidence that we can, with the help, of a professional, train the pup to be Chase's service dog. I don't work at all so that helps me to be able to manage my schooling as well as home school the 5 children who still reside at home. In fact we use dog training as lessons in science, history, and social studies. Right now I have three 15 yr olds and two 13 yr olds so that helps as well since all of my children are older and able to, for the most part, take care of themselves.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Changed my mind!


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

I think that if you want to give a thank you that is totally up to you. Personally I would rather that you not give a thank you for me. Only do so for yourself, and what you felt should receive a thank you!

Personally the only reason I gave a thank you to every post in this thread is that I do appreciate every single response I got on my post, whether I agreed with what the poster had to say or not. It helps me to have so many different ideas, thoughts, and opinions!

P.S.
I am bouncing back and forth from here and my school so if I missed giving a thank you I will get to it .. I promise :angel2:


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

Countryboy said:


> Changed my mind!


lol you are quicker to respond than me and I already quoted you and responded. I'll try and fix it so your quote is not in there but make no promises


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## Pudel-Fan (Nov 1, 2011)

I am so happy that your family is getting some good news about your other children. It is really great that we live in a time when these things can be tested for in children and people planning a family. Also pleased to hear your daughter is showing improvement, thanks for letting us know. 

I have a feeling with your strong family support system she is going to do better than the doctors think. You and your family are in my prayers.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

GlennBaxterFamily said:


> Your experiences are just that yours, and from what I have gathered not only in my personal experience, but from other posters, it is not what the majority of others have experienced.


What is the harm in preparing for the worst. If you get a service dog for your daughter, who is going to come to the hospital and walk the dog 3 times a day when she is bedridden? (Maybe you stay in the hospital with her?) What if you get contagious sick and can't stay in the hospital? What about when she turns 18 and you turn over the dog's legal ownership to her? 

I am concerned when a person's disabilities make them physically or mentally unable to care for a dog. Yes, it can be done but it all is part of sorting things out ahead of time. I counsel my clients to have plan A, B, C, and have contact information for all potential dog caregivers/transporters in the dog's equipment. I use a red pouch with a clear "emergency information" and have that in there with my ID, medication list, emergency meds, etc. Just like having a fire escape plan for your family. Plan for the worst, hope for the best!

Do you know what your daughter's future prognosis is? Is there hope she can live independently? Will you be the dog's physical caretaker for life?

WI's laws regarding service dogs were updated in 2005 and are surprisingly good. Local ordinaces.... not so much. The city I live in does not recognize any service dog except a guide (vision) dog. Thank goodness the state supercedes local. I have yet to write a letter to the city clerk. My bad.

There's one local hospital that is particularly bad.  I'm not the only person to deal with them! Yes, experience shapes our cautions. There's no harm in passing caution on so people don't get hurt.


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

I was not asking you, or anyone, in this forum to prepare me for the worst. What I specifically asked for was advice on how to approach breeders. Our family is currently in crisis and trying our best to figure out what would be the most effective way for our family to do what is in Chase’s best interest. All of our pets are re-homes and I have never interacted with a breeder, hence why I made the post that I did.

The other side of this is your words. The harm that words can do by stating inaccurate information as fact can be vast and not prepare the person for “the worst”. My opinion is you are not nearly the expert that you want others to believe you are. 

Many people seek out forums for the information that can be gathered from other owners, many of which typically have many more years experience than they do. 

In this thread alone you have stated inaccuracy as fact. You continue to do so. Every time you state something as fact, that in reality is your opinion, I am going to point it out. Not to be childish but rather for those that will come behind me searching for information on service dogs.

I am acutely aware of what “the worst” could be for my daughter. Just because I have not shared all of the details on this public forum does not mean I am not informed. I shared as much as I am comfortable sharing. I am not some naive, ignorant, dog owner who does not know what she is talking about or not aware of what we might be facing in the future. How we choose to navigate the issues that will come up, in all honesty are none of your business. You overstepped a line when you did so. 

Just because you have a disability does not make you an expert on service dogs, disability, or even training.


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## oceanrose (Sep 10, 2011)

First, I want to say my prayers are with Chase, and the rest of your family on getting through this time. I am so glad that she's doing better, and that the testing turned out well for your other kids 

To get back to your original question of how to connect with breeders.

I do think your original letter was a bit wordy. I would start by outlining what you're looking for in a puppy, and what group(s) you'll be working with. I would address the financial concern in a 'need to save up money' way, and you may find a breeder that will be willing to reduce fees for you. I would focus on breeders that seem to do performance work, or at least put CGC/CGN testing on their dogs, and who temperament test. Health testing is of paramount importance too. I also wouldn't rule out a slightly older puppy in your situation. 

I do think you'll have a bit of a search, and I also think searching and interviewing breeders, making a list of behaviors to train for, and so on would be an awesome way to get Chase's mind on something that might give her hope. I think that the independence a service dog could afford her would be absolutely great. Especially if she's an active person who loves to hike and so on. 

I can't wait to hear updates on this, what a bright future Chase has with such a great supportive parent and family!


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

oceanrose said:


> First, I want to say my prayers are with Chase, and the rest of your family on getting through this time. I am so glad that she's doing better, and that the testing turned out well for your other kids
> 
> To get back to your original question of how to connect with breeders.
> 
> ...


If I could thank you x 100 I would! This is exactly the type of response that I was looking for and needed. Not to say I did not apperciate the other response 

I would prefer an older dog rather than a puppy, personally. We will be grateful no matter the age of the puppy to just find one that will be suited for service work. Given a response that I got from one breeder is why I posted here. I realized that I was not making my point well and was not being understood. Chase was actually working commands with the little dogs while she was laying down. It helped to raise her spirits up a lot!


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

I want to get this thread back on track. Originally I had posted for advice on how to approach a breeder about a pup as a service dog. It got slightly derailed by inaccurate information and I would like to correct that misinformation so that those who come behind me will have an accurate understanding and resources.

1 ~ _Someone tells you or implies that training a pup you personally pick out is not feasible due to not being able to find a private trainer or an organization that will help you train your pet as your personal service dog, or Most service dog trainers and organizations will not work with a family with an additional dog._

This is simply inaccurate at best. I have found in my state two organizations, several personal trainers, and one private training facility that will help you train your pet as *your* personal service dog regarless of what pets are in the home. The key word in that is your. I also have been in contact with several breeders who have no problem placing a puppy with us, with full knowledge that the puppy will be trained, by us, as a personal service dog.

2 ~ _You cannot take your service dog a specific place or area._

This one is a bit trickier to answer. There are many protections put in place by the ADA that allow you to take your service dog every place that the general public is allowed to go. Areas that are not public access can be inaccessible to service dogs. An example is the kitchen of a restaurant is not accessible to the general public; as such your service dog does not have coverage under ADA to be in the kitchen. This also applies to operating rooms, and other areas of a medical nature where the service dog is a hindrance to the professional staff. For the most part though it appears that service dogs are allowed in hospitals. If you are unsure it would be wise to call the facility yourself and find out if your service dog will be welcomed, if not why not, and what preparations you need for the service dog to be kept with you, if they are allowed.

3 ~ _You cannot be asked to remove your service dog because they are protected under the ADA._

This is not true. If your service dog is deemed a threat to others or is not behaving is a proper manner then yes you can be asked to remove your service dog. In those situations your service dog is *not* protected under the ADA. One example is barking continuously in a movie theater. Another is improper behavior towards another customer such as being aggressive.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

I go to a breeder looking for a puppy that didn't sell as a baby. At 6 - 8 months old you have a better idea of what the temperament will be, it can save you from a lot of money lost and heartbreak. You can evaluate the puppy without being obvious. Tossing a toy around will tell you a lot about the dog's willingness to retrieve, carry, deposit. Call the puppy to come, try luring with food, etc. Test the pup for it's attentiveness to you, etc. If you liek the puppy, have the breeder meet you at a pet store, you can see the dog's reaction to sliding doors, light reflecting on the floor, slick floors, fans, people, other dogs.

You have no obligation to tell the breeder what you want the dog for. You can say it's a companion for your daughter, which would be completely truthful. 

Once you know what you want the dog to do, you'll know what you need to evaluate. It sounds like you would want to test opposition reflex. Training bracing is sooo much easier in a dog with opposition reflex. You can test that quickly while petting the dog.

If that dog is capable and is "clear in the head", and with your experience, you can be reasonably confident the dog will work out. You don't need to worry the breeder getting them thinking that you'll want to return the dog later.

The BEST service dog I trained I found on craigslist for $100. I tracked down the breeder abd bought his half-sister. Stellar dogs. Good dogs come in all places at all prices. If you know a good breeder and the bloodline, paying for a puppy can be worth every penny. 

Sometimes looking at all your options - I mean evaluating the individual dogs - will make it very clear which one is right for you. It's really easy to evaluate a craigslist dog, people looking for a home for their dog are thrilled to have their dog tested. Worst case scenario is you meet interesting people, pet some dogs, and the dogs have a fun bit out of the house. You learn a lot. You may not need it but it's good for people who are starting from zero. If you know what you do not want, it will be very easy to identify the dog you do want!



I am incredibly sleep deprived and rambling, I hope this makes sense.


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

tortoise said:


> I go to a breeder looking for a puppy that didn't sell as a baby. At 6 - 8 months old you have a better idea of what the temperament will be, it can save you from a lot of money lost and heartbreak. You can evaluate the puppy without being obvious. Tossing a toy around will tell you a lot about the dog's willingness to retrieve, carry, deposit. Call the puppy to come, try luring with food, etc. Test the pup for it's attentiveness to you, etc. If you liek the puppy, have the breeder meet you at a pet store, you can see the dog's reaction to sliding doors, light reflecting on the floor, slick floors, fans, people, other dogs.
> 
> *You have no obligation to tell the breeder what you want the dog for. You can say it's a companion for your daughter, which would be completely truthful. *
> 
> ...


Since all of my dogs came to us as rehomes/rescue I am not opposed to getting a dog from the pound, craigslist, or classified ads for a pet. In fact our other service dog was a rescue and he turned out great for what we needed him to be able to do in order for him to qualify as a service dog for his handler. He was with us as a pet for over a year before the need to train him as a service dog came up. He is trained to carry oxygen tanks in a pack that he carries and to retrieve epi-pens when they are needed. The only reason why he qualifies as a service dog is that the person who uses him is permanently disabled. I did not use any special training for him, and he is not used in public very often as a service dog. He was not specifically trained for stability but he is a natural .. I think he gets that from his Great Dane side lol

For Chase and her needs however we want a pup from a qualified, reputable breeder, who does all of the health testing, and does temperament testing. It would also be nice to be able to work with a breeder who breeds for therapy or service dogs type lines. I think that would be a working line. 

I am not comfortable lying to the breeder that we end up working with. You are wrong when you said "it would be completly truthful to tell a breeder that we want a puppy as a companion for my daughter". Telling a breeder that I want the dog as only a companion for my daughter is a lie. We do not want _only_ a companion for our daughter. I do not know any breeder who is not going to ask what we plan on doing with the puppy, especially a responsible breeder. I will not start what will be a long relationship with a breeder based on a lie. The breeder has no way of picking the right pup for our family, and what we need this puppy to do, if she/he is not given *all* of the truth from the very beginning!

*I have to admit that I find it very discombobulating that you think it is ok to tell a lie to a breeder, but more so in my specific situation. No matter how you try and wordsmith it, it is still a lie. I think that it says a lot about you as a person and your character. That is not the type of lesson I want to teach Chase or my other children, and certainly not something that I want to nurture as a character in them. It is NOT ok for them to tell half-truths, omit parts of the truth, or to lie and then try to justify it because they want/need something. *

I want to make sure that we give Chase every opportunity that we can to succeed. At this time in her life, she is at the age where she is starting to be independent of her parents. I want to give her absolutely every chance that I can of succeeding as she spreads her wings and learns how to fly!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

GlennBaxterFamily said:


> Since all of my dogs came to us as rehomes/rescue I am not opposed to getting a dog from the pound, craigslist, or classified ads for a pet. In fact our other service dog was a rescue and he turned out great for what we needed him to be able to do in order for him to qualify as a service dog for his handler. He was with us as a pet for over a year before the need to train him as a service dog came up. He is trained to carry oxygen tanks in a pack that he carries and to retrieve epi-pens when they are needed. The only reason why he qualifies as a service dog is that the person who uses him is permanently disabled. I did not use any special training for him, and he is not used in public very often as a service dog. He was not specifically trained for stability but he is a natural .. I think he gets that from his Great Dane side lol
> 
> For Chase and her needs however we want a pup from a qualified, reputable breeder, who does all of the health testing, and does temperament testing. It would also be nice to be able to work with a breeder who breeds for therapy or service dogs type lines. I think that would be a working line.
> 
> ...


Oh goody! Another lecture!! 

I find it somewhat discombobulating that a new member would come in here asking for information and then wind up lecturing one of our more experienced trainers. If u know everything already, why are u here?


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

I have a problem with an "experienced trainer" telling me to lie to a breeder. In my opinion that is not ok. 

I never said I know it all. What I did do is respond to what I have a difference of opinion with. I have not been rude or disrespectful and to my knowledge tortoise does not have a problem with my response to what she is saying. 

She continually posts in my thread and I respond. I have pointed out the inaccuracy that she has stated that are specific to my situation and my state!

You know very little about me or what my experiences are. I have had other posts that tortoise responded to and I responded back, again to my knowledge there was no problem. If she has a problem with what I am saying then I am sure she will be a big girl and contact me directly or respond to my posts directly as she has done several times now when her opinion differed from mine.

There is nothing wrong with a healthy debate that includes exchange of opinions, ideas, thoughts, or experiences.


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## Paragon (Feb 18, 2012)

GlennBaxterFamily,

You are wise to tell the whole truth to your breeder. How else can they get you the best pup for you! If you work with a breeder with experience in the therapy field, they can prepare a pup for your needs. They can teach the pups to learn. It may be difficult to find someone willing to work with you, but it can be done! It does take a bit of a wait.

If the pups are started at birth, you have a great chance of getting a service dog, or two out of a litter. Not all pups are suited to this. 

Look for working lines, obedience titles, therapy dogs, correct front and conformation etc. The temperment for this work, and trainability is important. We start the whole litter, if there is a request. You will find the best candidates, as they grow.

If you tell the breeder the jobs the pup will need to do, rudiments can be started. It will not get you a finished dog, but a dog that knows how to learn, and problem solve, for the tasks they will need to do.

BTW we have therapy dogs, and have worked on this. It is alot of work for the same price! The satisfaction is knowing you make a difference in someone's life!

This is not to say you can't find a great dog at the pound, or rescue. Second chance dogs do appreciate the life they get.

Paragon


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Just a thought that maybe you could get some help regarding suitable poodle breeders for your service dog search from the Poodle Club of America. You might check with the breeder-referral person of your state chapter.
Welcome to PCA!


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

That is a good resource and I have emailed a couple of breeders from their list. One of them I am in contact with.


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## cavon (Aug 10, 2010)

*I find your post very disrespectful*



Countryboy said:


> Oh goody! Another lecture!!
> 
> I find it somewhat discombobulating that a new member would come in here asking for information and then wind up lecturing one of our more experienced trainers. If u know everything already, why are u here?


Two people are having an open exchange here CB, what is your problem? 

I find it very annoying that when a new member or an existing member dare to disagree with a member of the ever present "clique" the other members jump in to bully the new member. What is it, think as we do or don't come here??

Well, I for one - and I know I'm not the only one - am tired of it.

Tortoise is giving her unaccredited opinion once again - and GBF, who has obviously done a lot of research into the options for her situation and is looking for any additional help or worthwhile advice that she can follow up on with further research, not nonsense.

I further commend GBF because she is obviously concerned about setting an example about being honest for her children. No lies or half-truths need be told to a breeder or anyone else.

And guess what, they are both doing it using fully formed sentences.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

cavon said:


> Two people are having an open exchange here CB, what is your problem?


An open exchange??? 

One is accusing the other of lying. How open is that?


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## cavon (Aug 10, 2010)

CB - if you go back and read the entire posts you will see that:

Tortoise advised GBF that skirting the truth, mis-stating the purpose of purchasing a dog, or in other words, LYING to a breeder would be acceptable behaviour. 

Any means to an end, is that we are all saying now??

GBF responded that she not only disagreed with this behaviour for some very sound reasons, that she did not feel that it would be appropriate in her situation and that it was not the way she wants to raise her family.

I also agree that a "professional dog trainer" or any other person, giving such advice in a situation like GBF's would or should absolutely give everyone concerns about the character and professionalism of the person offering such guidance.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

If you're letting someone else pick, then you need to say exactly what you are looing for. But if you have the experience, you've trained a service dog, why would you let someone else pick? That's a huge risk.

Don't dismiss your training by saying "he's only a service dog because the handler is disabled". All service dogs are only a service dog because the handler is disabled. There is no smoke and mirrors in dog training. You've trained some of the basic behaviors, you'll do it again. Service dog training is not totally unlike other dog training. The dog recieves a cue, performs a behavior, and gets a reward for it. It's the application that makes it seem so different.



Let's be clear, I do not have a problem with GBF. We each have enough experience to have strong opionions shaped by that experience. We deal with different state laws and different institutions. Is it so odd to embrace debate as a means of learning and challneging one's own opionion?


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

My reasoning behind having the breeder pick the puppy is two fold.

1 ~ I do not the poodle breed very well. My personal experience with them is lmited. The breeder knows that litter and would know much better than I which puppy out of that litter would be the best match for us, as a family and for Chase.

2 ~ The breeder knows that litter and would know much better than I which puppy out of that litter would be the best match for us, as a family and for Chase.

As I have said before I believe, without doubt, you can find great dogs from pounds, rescues or even craigslist. For our case and for Chase I do believe that a puppy from a breeder who does health testing and temperament testing is the best for her. In two years she is going (well plans to) to college. She is going to need to have a dog that is going to be as healthy as possible and that would be a risk and gamble if I do not know the genetics behind the dog. 

Chase's disease is a recessive disease that both parents have to pass the gene to her. There is NO documented cases of this disease on either side of the family so I do understand that there are no guarantee that a puppy from health tested parents will not end up sick but I do believe we are "stacking the deck" in favor of getting the healthiest dog.


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

*Update on Chase*

Guess who was feeling well enough to sleep in her own room, in her own bed, rather than camping out in the parents room (like she has been since April 5)so that she could be monitored and helped to the bathroom in the night ... that is right Chase 

As I am typing this she is upright (no lightheadiness or fainting), and playing with the little dogs on my bed!


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

*GBF* 

"Stacking the deck" seemed to be the consensus here from an earlier thread on poodle breeding and puppy selection. And even older "rescues and re-homes" can have known health and tested quantities. Best wishes to your daughter and good luck finding her service dog.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

My nieces have raised 3 service dogs (one flunked out and is now their pet) and these dogs have been bred to have the right kind of temperment and there lines are health tested. I think you should stack your odds this way. I think you should keep your letter simple and heartfelt and list the kind of duties you think will be required. Considering your background of dog training and the strong family support system I don't see it as a major problem if at some point family members are called upon to assist in the dog's care. I am thrilled to hear that Chase continues to improve and is now sleeping in her own room. I am very distressed about some of the postings on this thread. The last thing you need now is for someone to give you a hard time when you are reaching out for help. I am sure, with the sterling example that you provide, that your daughter will cope with her disease with dignity and strenght. I wish I had the names of some poodle breeders to give to you that have experience with service dogs. Have you contacted the poodle club in your area? They may be able to point you in the right direction. I would also approach organizations that train other breeds of service dogs. They may know who to refer you to a poodle service dog breeder.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

GlennBaxterFamily said:


> What I specifically asked for was advice on how to approach breeders.


To answer you original question, I do believe, as you said in your original post, that you may be rambling a bit and providing a little too much personal information right off the bat. I would look for breeders who are breeding to the standard and doing the appropriate health testing. Once you have a list of breeders that you like, contact them. But I would leave it at a simple introduction, tell them the kind of lifestyle you can provide for a dog, mention the type of temperament and personality that you are looking for. For a service dog, you want a sound, confident dog who is outgoing and not aggressive in any way. Some drive is good, but not over-the-top. Mention that you are looking for a _pet dog_ that you hope to train as a service dog. I do know that some breeders will shy away from people who are looking for a service dog because they worry about what will happen if the dog doesn't work out. So I would stress _pet_ that will be a service dog if it works out. 

When buying a puppy to be a service dog, there is always a very real possibility of it not working out, and you will need to have a plan in store for that and be up front with the breeder about it. But I don't think there is any reason to go into all of the medical and personal details about your family and your daughter in your introductory email. 

To add a bit on the allergy issue. Whoever said before that no dog is hypo-allergenic is correct, but because of personal experience, I do believe poodles cause significantly less allergy response than other breeds. I have pretty bad dog allergies and react severely to certain breeds (shar peis, boxers, chows are the worst). I can live with labs, pits, GSDs and certain softer coated long haired breeds (golden retrievers, spitz, etc) as long as I don't make a lot of physical contact and keep the dogs and the environment clean. But I can sleep in the bed with my poodles with no problems. I do still react to their saliva, though. 

So yes, poodles can cause less allergy response. I would recommend, as someone else did earlier I believe, to bathe often, keep the environment clean, discourage licking, and you should be OK. 

Hope this helps, and good luck in your search!


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

For me the biggest challenge I faced was how much information to provide without feeling like I was lying to the breeder. In hindsight I should have come here first and asked how to compose a letter to a breeder! Thank you all for all of the input on what to say and I think just as important how to say it to the breeder. 

We know that Chase will need lifelong assistance with picking things up if she drops it. Due to her enlarged spleen and liver bending over is difficult at best for her. The liver and spleen should go back to normal but it will be a lifelong problem for her. We were told that even with the IV therapy it will take at least a year for her liver and spleen to approach normal size. If her enzyme levels get out of whack, even a little bit, her spleen and liver will enlarge again. Since she might have to have Lumbar Punctures and or Bone Marrow Biopsy’s in the future so we should also train for stability assistance.

If the puppy does not work out as a service dog then it will be a much loved pet that will belong to Chase. If nothing more than a companion this puppy will bring a lot to Chase and her life. The emotional and social aspects of this disease are just as important of a factor as the physical limitations that she will have.

As far as the allergy, my son is allergic to the lab/great dane mix but not to the Shih Tzu/poodle mixes or the Miniature Schnauzer. The lab does drool a lot so I think those that suggested that the allergy might be to the saliva are on to something!

Again I want to extend my thanks to everyone who has taken the time to give their input, advice, thoughts and or experiences. It truly has helped!


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

When I was picking dogs 'elsewhere' I had it set up so I could have 3 - 4 dogs at a time, washouts were trained as therapy dogs or pets. 

There's been research into the success rate of service dog training. Service dog trainers aptitude tested shelter dogs and trained them 1 in 100 made it all the way through. They aptitude tested puppies bred specifically for service dog work and trained those and 80 in 100 made it through.

Yes, there are good dogs 'elsewhere' but they are harder to find and there's more risk.

But when I needed a service dog, I searched rescues for 4 months. There were crazy adoption fees like $400 for a 14 yr old blind diabetic poodle. A google ad led me to a breeder/trainer I know and have trained with. I had no known they bred miniature poodles and I was lucky they had a really nice litter.

I didn't go into personal detail but I was clear I needed a dog with confidence and zero environmental issues. Health testing was good and going back many generations. I had video of the training done with them. I spent 2 hours training/testing the dog before deciding.

I think you'll have better luck if you describe what you want the dog to do (retrieve, brace) and where you want it to be able to go (hospital, college).


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Several posts in this thread have been reported. Unfortunately I missed the original reports as I was in Fargo over the weekend, competing in Rally Obedience with the Poodles, so the thread has continued without me!

I would like to commend the OP on her maturity and poise. No one (that I saw) "accused" anyone of lying. The OP, very calmly and eloquently, expressed why SHE would be uncomfortable withholding truths and/or misdirecting a potential breeder/connection - there were *no *accusations made.

That being said -thanks to everyone for bringing the thread back to topic, and now let's see if we can keep it here!

Barb


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## blkpudel (Jan 14, 2011)

If you are truly interested in getting a poodle as a service dog I suggest you visit this page and email this young lady. 

American Poodles At Work: Home Page

She also has a Facebook page.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

blkpudel said:


> If you are truly interested in getting a poodle as a service dog I suggest you visit this page and email this young lady.
> 
> American Poodles At Work: Home Page
> 
> She also has a Facebook page.


What an informative and useful site! I'm sure this organization does a whole lot of good for a whole lot of people. I was glad to see they use positive training methods and so diligently look out for the well being of all the poodles they train, including the "washouts." Good of you to share!:thumb:


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

We just got a letter from Chase's pediatrician (I got a copy of what it should say and more importantly what it should not say according to ADA laws) stating that she approves and supports Chase getting a service dog.

If I understood it correctly this letter is used mostly in a renter situation. I am not sure what else it should/could be used for. I got the letter because one, of many, sites I went to said it would be a good thing to have.

Any thoughts?


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

It would be used any time her access or housing is challenged, although it does not go to the landlord/business owner. It goes in your evidence for a judge if the case goes that far.

Because it's essentially a legal document, it should include the legal definition of a service dog in the language to be perfectly clear it is not an emotional support dog or pet that would not have the access or housing privledges. One of my clients has a really good one I wish I still had a copy.

That plus her disability paperwork is all you should need to prove the need for a service dog. You'll need to document the dogs training or you can do a certification. Certification is an (expensive) way to get around maintaining training logs, which are a PITA.

The other possible situation is if you go to court over access or housing, the judge may want to see the tasks performed in the courtroom. I've heard of this once when it was disputed whether a dog was emotional support or a service dog. This case changed the way I train indication/alert behaviors to make them quite obvious.


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

*doctor’s generic letter*

Since I home school I am used to keeping track of important documentations of what was done, and when it was done. I would assume (but I know what happens when I do that :aetsch: ) it would be the same for service dog training records. I might set up my own excel doc to track it all instead of using the program I use for home schooling. 

Below is the letter that Chase's doctor used as a demo to do Chase's letter. I would reference where I found this letter but for the life of me I cannot remember what website had this listed! I will look though and post when I find it!

On physician’s letterhead: 
"[Name] is my patient. I am treating him/her for a chronic medical disability. [Name] uses a Service Dog to assist him/her in managing this disability, and I support him/her in doing so. It is my professional opinion that [Name]'s Service Dog is medically necessary. Please accommodate him/her and his/her Service Dog, as requested. 
Sincerely, [doctor's name]" 

Note: Due to HIPAA regulations, your doctor’s letter should not say that the reader of the letter is "welcome to contact me if you have questions." The law does not allow your doctor to speak with lay persons about your medical condition or treatment, unless you sign a specific waiver for ‘consent for release of patient information’.

*ETA*
I cannot find the exact source for the letter we used but I did find one that I can link to that I think is really good. The link is http://servicedogcentral.org/content/node/304


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## TammyQ (Feb 10, 2012)

If you apply with an organization that trains service dogs, you will need the medical information for the application process. The trainer will need this information so the right dog will be matched with you (or your daughter) and will receive the appropriate training for the specific needs it will be required to perform. 

Once the dog has been trained and successfully certified, you will get an ID for both the dog and the owner that will have all the service dog information on it.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

That's a pretty good letter. 

I think service dog organizations sometimes are invasive in their application!! I've had client give me applications they refused to fill in because of that. I did everything in an interview so I didn't need to ask anything more than I needed to know.

Certification is not necessary and does not aways include an ID. You can buy an ID many places online and can make one easily at home. They are not necessary but do make access easier. You can actually BUY a service dog certification package to slap on any dog. Several hundred dollars and makes a lot of people in the service dog world angry!


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## GlennBaxterFamily (Apr 28, 2011)

We will not be going through an organization. We have decided that for our family, training our own dog (through a certified training facility) is the way for us to go. However I completely support those who decide that an organization is the right way for them to go.

The service dog ID being available online is a HUGE debate and I understand why it is a huge debate. There are people who have dogs who are not trained, and are not qualified to be service dogs due to the handler not having a disability. They still insist on saying they are a service dog. and use online sources to get ID's. In my opinion that is wrong. That, I believe, is the reason why many people refuse to allow service dogs in areas that pets are not allowed. They have bad experiences with "so called" service dogs and it has caused problems in their establishment.

I can see both sides of the argument but not sure where I stand on it. On the one hand I do believe there needs to be some regulations but I am undecided on how much regulation, or who should oversee those regulations. For example I see nothing wrong with a person training their own dog and using a professional trainer, who is accredited, to train service dogs. I do not believe that only organizations should be able to train and or accredit service dogs as service dogs. If only organizations are “allowed” to train service dogs then there are many people, who for various reasons would never get a service dog. This decision is based on the organizations qualifications, which are not always based solely on whether the person is disabled but rather on other factors!


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