# Looking at Poodle Breeders: Glow Poodles, Amity Poodles etc.



## sophie anne (Feb 17, 2015)

Hi everyone!

Can anyone offer me advice/experience on the following mpoo breeders?

I've spoken to each of them and they will (or likely will) have litters in a time frame that works for me. Since a lot of them are farther away from me, I'd like to hear some more opinions before getting too attached to the idea of getting one of their pups.

Glow Poodles (poodlesglow)

Amity Poodles (Miniature Poodles - Amity Valley Kennels)
Lavandaire Poodles (Welcome)
Adelheide Poodles (Adelheid Poodles, Rochester, Minnesota)
Highview Poodles (Highview Standard Poodle Puppies)

And any additional suggestions for breeders are welcome too.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Her dogs are lovely. She had the first apricot AM. Grand champion!


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## sophie anne (Feb 17, 2015)

Removed.


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## Greenfoley (Jan 26, 2011)

Another MI breeder, I would very much recommend Logos White Miniature Poodles. My Linus that I just got on Saturday came from Linda. I was very happy with everything involved in getting a puppy from her, am happy to be a new part of her "family" and of course adore my new little man beyond reason.


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## Greenfoley (Jan 26, 2011)

You'll probably get a variety of opinions on this issue. It just means that the dogs being bred are related, perhaps closely given the specification of close. Done knowledgeably by an experienced breeder who knows what faults and weaknesses their lines carry it's not that big of a deal. Linus is also pretty tightly line bred, his sire is also his dam's sire. Breeders will do this to "fix" desirable traits by doubling up on genes. It should only be done carefully by someone who knows their lines inside and out because you run the risk of doubling up on genes for bad things as well. 

It's hard to find completely unrelated dogs especially in a breed like Mini Poodles that don't have a zillion breeders out there adding to the gene pool. The bigger questions are HOW related and a thorough knowledge of what lies in those lines. If you aren't planning on breeding your dog anyways and otherwise trust the breeder to know all the whys and hows of their lines, I really wouldn't worry about it. If you do plan on breeding, I still wouldn't necessarily avoid a tightly line bred dog, just make sure you get educated on those lines as well so you can find the perfect cross. Of course I think that's an important aspect of breeding anyways


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## sophie anne (Feb 17, 2015)

Thanks Greenfoley!

Here's what it's looking like the decision will be:
*Glow Poodles* is having a litter with Ca CH Cameo Glow Lady In Red (poodlesglow) and AKC Grand Champion, UKC CH *******'s Nuttin's Gonna Stop Me Now (AKC Grand Champion, UKC CH *******'s Nuttin's Gonna Stop Me Now!!!!(SAMMIE) | WELCOME TO).

******** Poodles* is having a litter with her AKC UKC CH *******'s Singin' A Sunshine Song (AKC UKC CH *******'s Singin' A Sunshine Song (CHESSA) | WELCOME TO) and with the same sire, AKC Grand Champion, UKC CH *******'s Nuttin's Gonna Stop Me Now.

For me, it is a definite plus that pups' tails are left on in Canada, so if I were to get a pup from Poodles Glow it would have full waggability.

But there is also the issue of importing the pup to the USA.

This seems like a "can't go wrong" kind of decision which is the hardest kind.

I'd love to hear from anybody with more poodle-breeding expertise than I (which is basically everyone here) what you think and what you would do presented with these same options.

Thanks!


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

I know! I know! Take one of each! :bounce:


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## princesspenny (Feb 16, 2015)

So either way they are basically half siblings, so same line whichever you pick. Is there a price difference..lol? Difference in contracts? I'd just go with however has the best puppy that fits you.


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## sophie anne (Feb 17, 2015)

princesspenny said:


> So either way they are basically half siblings, so same line whichever you pick. Is there a price difference..lol? Difference in contracts? I'd just go with however has the best puppy that fits you.


The biggest difference is the COI of the resulting litter and potential issues with importing a pup from Canada, because it seems that there may be a problem bringing in a dog that hasn't had its rabies vaccine (so younger than 4 mo).

The COI of AM CH *******'s Nuttin's Gonna Stop Me Now *Sammie* (the stud) is:
10-generation COI	14.27%
12-generation COI	14.99%

The COI of AM CH *******'s Nuttin's Gonna Stop Me Now *Chessa* (the dam of the ******* litter) is:
10-generation COI	4.57%
12-generation COI	5.12%

Sammie and Chessa share the same mother, AM CH Barclay Lyca Walkn On Sunshine:
10-generation COI	13.75%
12-generation COI	14.77%

The COI of CA CH Cameo Glow Lady in Red (the dam of the Glow litter) is:
10-generation COI	0.03%
10-generation COI	0.03%

So it is my understanding that the Glow litter would be considered an outcrossing while the ******* litter is a linebreeding. Like I said, lacking expertise myself I am not sure which (if either) might offer an advantage in a pet dog. Since in the closer breeding genes (both good and bad) are doubled up, while in the farther breeding more genes (both good and bad) are introduced. :argh:


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## nataly (Jul 31, 2014)

I have imported a puppy from Canada once. It was 11 years ago, so things might have changed. We just crossed the border, told the officer we were bringing home a puppy we bought. I can't remember if there was any paperwork we were given, but there was absolutely no problem. In fact the only problem we had was being asked to get out of the car and walk to security person while leaving the puppy in the car. This was soon after September 11, so the security was heightened I guess, or maybe they thought it was suspicious we drove that far just to get a puppy 
There was a line at security and we had the pup loose in the car, so I thought we'd come back to a disaster scene. We were let go quickly and when we got back to the car the puppy was asleep. That was a spinone puppy, not a poodle though and that particular dog had nerves of iron - never learned what stress was throughout his entire adult life either  If in doubt get a nap must have been his motto.
Has anyone imported a puppy more recently?


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

the law has changed re importing pups into the u.s. i don't know details, but i know arreau mentioned it somewhere. best to ask the breeder if s/he has exported to the u.s. since the new regulations went into effect.


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## PoodlePaws (May 28, 2013)

*Looking at Poodle Breeders: Glow Poodles, ******* Poodles, Amity Poodles etc.*

Half siblings? That is in-breeding. And it's different than line breeding. I would choose a different breeder. But that's just me. Too close.


In-breeding

Inbreeding is the mating of very close relatives, for example, father to daughter, half-brother to half-sister, brother to sister, mother to son, etc.

Inbreeding intensifies the faults as well as the strong points, so considerable discretion must be used in the choice of the dogs. The faults may be to such an extent, that, sometimes, entire litters have to be destroyed in cases where obvious anomalies occur. For this reason, this type of breeding is not recommended to novice breeders.
Sometimes, in-breeding is the only option available, for example, in the re-creation of a nearly extinct breed or in breeding programs of newly created breeds.

Line-breeding

Line breeding is the mating of dogs having many common ancestors or mating to a slightly removed relative, e.g. granddaughter to grandsire, uncle to niece, etc.
The benefit of line-breeding is the production of more consistent litters.
In order to have a chance to reinforce desired characteristics and eliminate health problems one has to have a thorough knowledge of both pedigrees of both the sire and the dam for at least five generations.
In general, most breeders adhere to a policy of line breeding, whereby they can assure uniformity of quality without risking the inherent dangers of inbreeding.
This technique appears to be the best compromise between inbreeding and the doubts of outcrossing or outbreeding.

Out-crossing

Outcrossing is the mating of two dogs that are the products of line breeding but of two distinctly separate lines.

Unless the two dogs involved in an outcross are strongly linebred with a possibility of a certain measure of prepotency, uniformity to the first generation is generally doubtful.
It is generally employed as a long-term proposition to bring certain traits into a line that are otherwise deficient. These traits then need to be intensified by proper line breeding or inbreeding.

Out-breeding

Outbreeding is the mating of two dogs who not only are the products of two distinctly separate lines, but on top are not the products of line breeding.
Outbreeding is seldom employed since in most breeding programs dogs that would qualify for outbreeding simply do not exist.


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## Greenfoley (Jan 26, 2011)

Greenfoley said:


> Linus is also pretty tightly line bred, his sire is also his dam's sire.


I wanted to clarify that I mis spoke here. His sire is his dam's paternal grandsire, not her sire. A common saying in breeding many species is "If it works, it's line breeding, if it doesn't, it's inbreeding"


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## sophie anne (Feb 17, 2015)

Thank you everyone. This has been an interesting turn of events... Definitely a lesson for all people considering a new puppy to do at least a cursory review of the pedigrees involved!!

I am going to take a pass on .


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## sophie anne (Feb 17, 2015)

I'd like to add MiVida Poodles (http://www.mividapoodles.com/about-us) to the list of breeders I'm considering.

Any feedback on this or the previously mentioned breeders is appreciated!


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

on your other thread, i mentioned barclay poodles (not known to me personally) in pennsylvania. no shipping and i don't know how long the drive is from where you are. i do know, however, that a bill just passed allowing pets on some amtrak lines. might be worth thinking about.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

On Aug. 11. 2014 the US Center for Disease Control changed the regulations about pups going into the US from other countries. They now have to be at least four months old with a rabies shot 30 days prior to importation. This means the youngest a pup can go from Canada to the US is 4 months because a rabies shot cannot be done sooner than 3 months. There is a confinement agreement that can be granted but it is very strict and if you followed it to the letter a puppy would end up a psychopath- in my opinion, so we have encouraged American buyers to leave their pups with us, in homes where they are comfortable, with humans they love and their Mom close at hand.There are up sides to receiving a pup four months old. For busy families, the pups are generally lead trained, crate trained and for the most part housebroken. The biggest downside is finding a Canadian breeder (or a breeder from another country) because a lot just do not have the resources to keep a puppy or several in a litter for that long.


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## Denver (Aug 16, 2015)

Sophie Anne:

I'm wondering what the end of the story is...
Thanks!


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## sophie anne (Feb 17, 2015)

Denver said:


> Sophie Anne:
> 
> I'm wondering what the end of the story is...
> Thanks!


Copying and pasting from an old thread and linking to a couple others that are relevant:

Trouble with ******* Poodles

Sent in a deposit!
"Well, I think I finally found her! I just sent in my deposit to Amity Valley Poodles in Duluth, MN for a little café au lait female who is 3 weeks old! She comes from Aery, Safranne and Hillani lines besides her heritage at Amity. I've been talking to Anne at Amity since January, and have passed on second pick of the litter several times, but I think the pup and the timing is finally right. 

Little "Miss Marianas Frizzle," Ari for a call name, will come home sometime in July! She's named after her 'aunt' Sophie (Miss Sophia Frizzle), my childhood standard poodle who will hopefully be able to meet her and tell her all about the wonders of doggy life before she crosses the rainbow bridge (Sophie is 16)."

Ari's picture thread

... and hopefully Ari's story will continue for many more years to come! :angel:


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## Denver (Aug 16, 2015)

Sophie Anne: So did you decide not to go with ******* because of the COI or what you'd read about Sherryn? I've liked my interactions with ******* and she has a litter due soon


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