# Choker collar for Standard Poodles?



## Geneva77 (May 20, 2011)

Are these needed? I saw some photos posted with choker collars on the dogs. Are these really necessary for standard poodle?


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Geneva77 said:


> Are these really necessary for standard poodle?


Necessary? I assume u mean necessary to keep the dog from pulling too hard on the leash. 


If that's yr problem then a choker collar is somewhat effective in slowing them down. But only if u keep the collar tight up under the dog's ears . . . where it may contact the soft part of their throat and actually choke them. Once it slips down lower the dog can and maybe will pull as hard as they can with no damage.

One of the Poodles in our group is so strong that the owner had to use one of those collars with the blunt spikes to walk him without being dragged all over the place. 

I'm fairly sure that once he learns to 'walk properly' and also matures some she can go back to using a normal collar on him.


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## Geneva77 (May 20, 2011)

I haven't had the need for one yet but she is only 14 weeks old and walks pretty nice on the leash. I was just wondering if I will (I did need one for my lab and weimeriner...heck I needed a big spoked one for her). I am afraid poodles might be too delicate for a regular choker.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would concentrate on teaching her good walking manners on a plain flat collar - or even a harness - while she is young. If she never learns to pull, life will be better for both of you. There is a lot of evidence out there that choke and similar collars can do permanent damage to a dog's throat, neck and spine. I would rather use a Halti or Gentle Leader myself - carefully introduced, of course.


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

In my opinion choke collars only choke the dog even more. I've seen very few dogs react to a choke collar..not to mention the damage they can do to your dogs trachea.

I only use the choke collar on dogs that already walk properly..it's usually just a matter of convenience since I don't keep collars on the dogs indoors. It makes it easy to throw on a leash/collar and go for a walk or go to work... but they don't pull on the collar and it doesn't choke them.

If pulling is an issue...I suggest a pinch collar. The dog self corrects, there is no need for "jerking" and the dog stops pulling.

The pinch collar may look horrible, cruel and mean but I assure you it's much better then slipping on a choke chain and watching the dog literally choke himself.

Both are a temporary fix and should only be used to train the dog to walk properly. These types of collars are a tool to aid in training..not an ultimate solution.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

i use a "pinch" or "prong" as it's also called on temperance. she's not a bad puller, but it's enough she hacks and gags when she's on leash w/ buckle.

(she pulls when she first starts walking and then when sees someone she likes or another dog she wants to greet or a squirrel. heh)

currently i have her on that and the martingale. i'm hoping i can wean her to martingale from prong soon. 

she's still a teenager so she has her moments of not minding all the way. i feel like i can get her off that as she matures.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I have used choker collars on a lot of dogs. They aren't meant to 'choke' them. You use them as a quick jerk that releases instantly. You MUST put them on correctly or they do not release. Too many people put the ring coming up from the bottom and then it truely is a choke collar that does not release instantly and serves no useful purpose in my opinion. The ring the leash attaches to must come across the top of the head on their right side with the dog is on the left. These were a must have with my boxers! I didn't have to resort to the pinch collars. 

That said, I now have a whippet and a standard poodle puppy. The whippet did not require a choke chain. With his long, thin neck I didn't want to hurt him (boxers have huge muscular necks). A whippet breeder recommended the Martingale semi choke collar. I was so happy with it that I decided to use one on my standard puppy. I have had great success with it for her, too. 

They are hard to find, but I ordered them on line. It makes a quick, gentle snap when pulled which startles them, but does not choke them and releases quickly. Whippets and poodles tend to be responsive, easy-to-leash-train breeds, unlike my boxers were. 

I transitioned my whippet to a wide all cloth martingale once he learned to walk nicely on the leash. My standard may be transitioned to a regular collar, but I may just continue with the martingale semichoke with her. It is only for walking and she wears her tags on another collar. 

A standard poodle is a large, strong breed with much potential to drag you around. I do not think a regular collar would work well when training a standard poodle. Once you have consistent control when walking, you can transition to one if you like, though. 

Here is a pic
Martingale semi choke collar:


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

Even properly placed a simple choke collar will do more damage to the trachea than a pinch collar.

The reason why is pretty simple...a pinch collar distributes the pressure evenly around the dogs neck. A choke collar does not, it puts the sole pressure on the underside of the neck resulting in trachea damage in many dogs.

It may not look like it but in inexperienced hands a choke collar can do far more damage than a pinch collar. I would never, ever suggest someone use a choke collar unless the dog doesn't pull or they are a trained, qualified and experienced dog trainer. A normal dog owner would have to pull very very hard to do damage with a pinch collar..unfortunately there are people out there who use both incorrectly.

Just do research on both, most trainers will favor the pinch collar for the even distribution of pressure.. but there are many hack trainers out there who aren't anymore qualified than you or me.

Ed Frawley and Michael Ellis are really the only trainers I go to for information regarding dog training.


Leerburg Dog Training | 16,000 pages of dog training information, 300 free streaming videos, DVDs and Free Dog Training ebooks - tons and tons of free ebooks and articles on dog training. 
Leerburg | How to fit a Prong Collar - how to properly fit a prong so that it's actually useful.
The Michael Ellis School for Dog Trainers

I can't find it and don't have the time to look for it right now but awhile ago on the german shepherd forums there was a huge debate on the pinch vs. choke collar and someone posted an experiment someone did putting both of these collars on a melon and pulling. The pinch collar did little damage where as the choke collar eventually split the melon in half.


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## Dolce and Louis (Feb 23, 2011)

Has anyone heard of or used a gentel leader? My neighbor swears by it and has all of our neighbors using it (she is the nehiborhood dog walker) and the other day someone had a boxer in my store and had one on him.....


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

The gentle leader is for people too lazy to train their dog. It does the same thing as the pinch collar, or choke chain by restraining the dog; only it makes controlling the animal even easier. I'm not so sure how it got the name "gentle" leader. I guess marketing can suck a lot of people in so they came up with a name that sounds dog-friendly and safe..unlike those *gasp* abusive pinch collars that cause dogs to walk perfectly without ANY harm done whatsoever.

I've also seen it keep dogs from being able to see/sniff and enjoy their walks. I know when my dogs are out on walks they like to turn their heads around and get a sniff of the air..or the ground. Dogs learn a lot by the sense of smell and restricting that freedom seems almost cruel. I've also seen dogs have the fur rubbed off from near the eyes because of the collar usage. Nylon is actually a very harsh material (hold a nylon leash and let a dog jerk as hard as he can) I had this happen while holding a friends dog and the leash sliced my hand open. I needed 5 stitches. Ouch.

I've seen people use a gentle leader in combination with a retractable leash and the results are almost youtubeable. Dog runs.. jerks his head back so quickly, whines in pain while the owner brags about how dog friendly the gentle leader is. The dog getting hurt is unfortunate but the clueless owner is definitely worth an appearance on youtube.

I have to sit and admire the dog trainers at places like petsmart who are putting one of these things on one of their "victims". It's amusing to watch the dog try to claw his own eyes out in hopes of getting this head collar off. 

People are so consumed with animal friendly and "safe" ways to train their animals when really some of the safest ways have been around for years. People read one bad article on how a pinch collar killed a dog and get scared for life. Any tool is going to have negative consequences... mostly because people don't research things before using them. I very rarely see people have a pinch collar fitted properly.. most leave the collar hanging down so low you could fit another dog into it.

In any case...I don't believe in the gentle leader one bit. Head collars are made for horses, not dogs. The only exception would be for the handicapped or people who are physically incapable of restraining their dog otherwise. Even then, I would promote a pinch collar, electronic collar and maybe even a choke chain before I would a gentle leader, or harness or any other form of "gentle" control they come up with.

The martingale collar posted earlier is something I would use and have used in the past. They work great, they don't harm, apply more even pressure than choke chain and keep a dog from slipping out of a collar. I love martingale collars. They can actually be found at petsmart and petco so they aren't too hard to get. I think every dog owner should use a martingale when out in public. Any dog, even the best trained dog, can slip out of a collar at the worst possible time. It's always good to have a no-slip when out in public.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I agree with you about the 'gentle' leader. I think they are cruel for most dogs. Only impossible to control dogs can benefit and then I think once they learn their manners they should use something else. I see why a dog walker would like them, but someone walking one or two dogs doesn't need one. 

I do think a choke chain can be useful on dogs with large, strong necks like a labrador or boxer, but they HAVE to be used correctly. You are so right that too many people haven't a clue how to really use them and they can hurt the dog. If used properly, they do no damage. 

Pinch collars work well. They just look so darned evil.  

My dogs like to 'read the newspaper' when they go for a walk. I often wonder what they are thinking while they sniff the air and that spot on the ground. My whippet spends a lot of time lizard hunting near the edges of bushes since we have so many lizards out at dusk. He has yet to catch one, but it is fun watching them scurry away. As long as they aren't pulling me, I allow them the enjoyment. I also train them to heel immediately when asked. I am not a strict walker, it is their fun time also, but I am the boss. I like to think I am a kind boss. They LOOOVE their walks.


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

My German Shepherd while walking keeps her nose to the ground..occasionally she will sniff the air but I always imagine she's tracking something. She will raise her head only when out for a run...otherwise the sniffer is on the ground. It used to be annoying but I've learned to accept the fact that she just likes to sniff the ground. I guess she would make an excellent tracking dog.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

i got temperance a martingale from doginstyle and i quite like it. 

what i do rignt now (got the advice here) is i have temperance on both prong and martingale. i walk her, then after she settles in (and on prong that is immediate) but i give it a few more mins ... then i slip the lead off the prong and hook it only on the martingale, but leave prong on.

main reason is that the prong get's tangled in her hair (i do have a cover that i use but right now i'm training so i'm not using it.


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## LPacker79 (May 19, 2011)

> I very rarely see people have a pinch collar fitted properly.. most leave the collar hanging down so low you could fit another dog into it.


I see this far too often, and watching someone put on one of these much too large collars is cringe-worthy indeed! I have visions of the poor dog losing an eye while the clueless owner simply slips the prong collar over the dog's head.


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

Yeah..the larger pinch collars don't even work as well. My favorite are the small to medium size links and I just buy extra for my shepherd. The more links that go around the neck the more even pressure you get from a correction. I also often keep the leash on the dead ring..very rarely on the live ring.

I think some people buy pink collars for a fashion statement. :argh:


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## sschoe2 (Mar 16, 2011)

I found the easy walk harness works well for Sari though she is a moyen (25#). Also use Victoria Stillwell's technique of when they pull turn around and walk back in the other direction for 5 paces. Keep doing that until they get the message. I don't like to have the leash directly attached to the collar as poodle's have delicate trachea's.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Not trying to start anything here, and I womanfully restrained myself as long as I could, but I am weak :smile:.

I don't like choke chains or prong collars. Aidan, I don't understand your comment "People are so consumed with animal friendly and "safe" ways to train their animals when really some of the safest ways have been around for years. "

I think people are 'consumed' with animal-friendly, effective, and kind methods, which prong collars definitely aren't. For me, safe is absolutely a requirement, but the real driver is kind & effective, i.e. not abusive. 

I've put a prong collar around my arm and yanked it, and it bloody hurts. It doesn't really matter what sort of spin one puts on it, the use of devices that cause pain to train is just wrong. Not saying they don't WORK, of course they work, but so does beating a kid bloody when he fails a math test, and we don't do that anymore. There are kinder, nicer ways to train that don't involve inflicting pain on your dog. 

We could talk about shock collars now if anyone wants to ..... :smile:


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## Geneva77 (May 20, 2011)

Shock collars? LOL So far so good with heeling so hopefully a regular old collar will be sufficient.

I'm just waiting for the day that she is "full grown" so I can gift her with a beautiful rhinestone jeweled collar. There are some gorgeous ones on ebay that I have my eye on. My husband is going to freak. :aetsch:


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

If you are using the prong collar on a dog correctly there is no "yanking". If you are yanking your dog around with any type of correction collar you're doing it wrong.

Pinch collars self correct..it takes very very little pressure before a dog stops pulling with a pinch collar.

I don't know about you but the more gentle option seems to be to use what causes the dog to walk nicely without pulling, gagging or applying pressure on the trachea.

Using things like flat collars, martingales or anything on the neck if the dog pulls it can do damage. I have not seen very many dogs keep pulling on a pinch collar. Even so..there is never an excuse for a dog owner to jerk or yank a leash while the animal is wearing a pinch collar. That is abuse and it isn't training your dog anything.

When you pull back on a dog the dog naturally wants to keep lunging forward so people who yank on the leash are not doing anything beneficial for their dog. In fact..with a pinch or choke collar if you do need to correct for some reason you would pull to the side..not back..and if you have the collar fitted and placed properly the pressure would be on the side of the dogs neck...again not on the trachea.

Most of the "harm" these collars do is from improper use.

I personally believe that pinch collars and choke chains should only be sold by licensed dog trainers. I don't think they should be easily available at petco/petsmart. People buy them and end up hurting their dog.

Also electronic collars are another story. They have their place.. mostly for hunting or schutzhund. You wouldn't want to be training a dog for schutzhund without an e-collar. Most likely someone will get hurt.

The same goes for training K9 dogs. 

As far as the average pet owner..they probably don't need an electronic collar and if they do they should go through a behaviorist or trainer first and try other options.


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## MyDogElwyn (Nov 27, 2010)

I remember a time when trainers were all about their training collars - some where 100% slip collar, some were 100% prong, etc etc...I think now we know its much better to see what is best for your dog - there can be no generalization. 

I think you have to just try to find quality examples of them and see how they work for you...you and your dog can decide. If you are interested in training collars, try collars out on your own arm, that can help you decide!

Definitely try to use positive training techniques and maybe you can avoid the use of training collars all together!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Geneva- I, too, want one of those rhinestone babies for Bonnie. I just can't decide whether to keep her hair short or let it grow. I was playing with the idea of UKC shows for fun and have been letting her hair grow, but it keeps getting longer and longer! I gave her a bath the other day and she was a little think under all that enormous hair. I don't know if I can deal with those show coats and a collar messes them up. sigh. What to do, what to do. 

Rhinestone collars are cool on a big spoo.


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

I don't understand with these choke and martingale collars and anything else with chain links, how people can use them on a poodle (unless clipped very short) without the links catching in the dog's neck fur and tearing/knotting it. I've never used headcollars (haltis), but I know someone who did use one on her dogs in an attempt to train them not to pull, but she said the fabric rubbed the fur across the nose and the dogs' faces were sore.

I'm also not convinced that routinely using a training aid that hurts the dog is going to help to train it. The dog will eventually either develop a tolerance for it or develop avoidance behaviours. Electric collars and hitting and these sorts of methods have their uses, but they need to be used very sparingly to be effective, and only when more moderate methods have failed. I used a technique I call Sheer Bloody Mindedness on my dog to make her walk properly. I attach her lead to her ordinary collar and walk. If she starts to pull, I walk slower. If she continues to pull, I stop and stand still until she stops pulling.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

I call it "being a tree", but I like your name better :smile:.


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

As a somewhat unrelated but almost-is-related note; prong collars are illegal in NZ. Entirely. Doesn't matter if it's a pet, a show dog, a trainer, a guard dog. Nothing. They're illegal here in all cases and any shape or form.

Choke chains or other slip leads are fine though. *facepalm*

So here there is no option of using a prong collar!!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

I like the 'Being a Tree' method too. And if yr dog is small enuf it should work well for everybody. But it won't work for all dogs.

A rambunctious 45lb Poodle, on a retractable leash and sprinting after a Squirrel, can do some *serious* damage to yr Rotator Cuff tendons when he gets to the end of the leash. *A prong collar may not stop this the first time, but they'll only do it once.*

IMO the collar u use for yr dog should depend on the size and personality of the dog.


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## Charley'sMom (Jun 16, 2011)

I totally agree with Aiden. When my Standard Poodle was young, he would get sooo excited to see other dogs that no matter how much I trained him (many different obedience classes) nothing worked. He ate the gentle leader and the regular choke chain would make him cough for a day or so after use and didn't control him anyway. When I got that prong collar it was magic!! I turned so many people on to it and they always had results. You find yourself having to defend it but it is very humane. I would get a "quick release" model as it's much easier to get on and off.


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## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

Geneva77 said:


> Shock collars? LOL So far so good with heeling so hopefully a regular old collar will be sufficient.
> 
> I'm just waiting for the day that she is "full grown" so I can gift her with a beautiful rhinestone jeweled collar. There are some gorgeous ones on ebay that I have my eye on. My husband is going to freak. :aetsch:


Funny that you said that, this weekend I've been looking for a 18 jeweled collar, I've looked on line, went to several pet stores and pet groomers, when I found a black velvet one at the groomers sister store. The reason I'm having a hard time is I want red. I ordered it on Firday and its gonna cost about 36.00 dollars, he should be able to wear it for at least 5 months I hope. We will see.


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## 2719 (Feb 8, 2011)

Aidan said:


> The martingale collar posted earlier is something I would use and have used in the past. They work great, they don't harm, apply more even pressure than choke chain and keep a dog from slipping out of a collar. I love martingale collars. They can actually be found at petsmart and petco so they aren't too hard to get. I think every dog owner should use a martingale when out in public. Any dog, even the best trained dog, can slip out of a collar at the worst possible time. It's always good to have a no-slip when out in public.


I totally agree...the martingale is the best collar. For years I used the collars with the plastic snap lock but with age the plastic degrades and the snap lock can break....not safe when walking your dog in a high traffic area.

I prefer the entire cloth martingale...not the part chain one because I find the cloth one easier on the Poodle hair.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

truelovepoodles said:


> I totally agree...the martingale is the best collar. For years I used the collars with the plastic snap lock but with age the plastic degrades and the snap lock can break....not safe when walking your dog in a high traffic area.
> 
> I prefer the entire cloth martingale...not the part chain one because I find the cloth one easier on the Poodle hair.


_This is the type of collar that I am now using on my dogs. It is one of the very few collars allowed by the Delta Health Pet Partner program. Not only is it more humane when control is needed, but it has extra rings on it so that a patient can have a lead hooked to it so that they feel like they are walking your dog while you have the main lead.

I have used the choke collars in the past with my dogs. I found that they really didn't need it. They are not rambunctious animals dragging at the end of the lead or dragging me down the street, so it served no purpose. 

I, of course, do not have any need for the prong collar, however, I have seen it used at obedience classes with good results on dogs who were completely out of control. The important thing about this is that it was being used at a class with instructors showing the owners how to use them properly and are not meant for long term use. _


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## phrannie (Jan 8, 2011)

Aidan said:


> Yeah..the larger pinch collars don't even work as well. My favorite are the small to medium size links and I just buy extra for my shepherd. The more links that go around the neck the more even pressure you get from a correction. I also often keep the leash on the dead ring..very rarely on the live ring.
> 
> I think some people buy pink collars for a fashion statement. :argh:


*I like the medium prongs also...(not to mention, my hands aren't strong enough to hook and unhook the large size)...After months of trying all the tricks, and having a virtual "dog tack" room...I bought a prong collar. At a year old, MoJo was 111 lbs, and I weigh 95....it was almost an instant fix, and he did his own discipline. 

I did not like the Gentle Leader at all. I was very nervous of spraining a neck...and Moj was miserable in it. They say they get used to it, but Moj spent every minute of his walks trying to rub it off on anything he saw (other people, trees, bushes)...in a month he still hated it. When I'd pull it out, he'd just lay down....when I pulled the prong, he was delighted. Leerburg.com has a good pictorial on how to place and fit a prong....

p *


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

First, I'm no dog trainer or dog accoutrement expert. I'm just a dog (now poodle) person.  

I've always used harnesses since rescuing two mini poodles with collapsed tracheas that my vet attributed to collar issues. I realize harnesses don't work for many dogs to include poodles with show coats; I've been lucky in that my poodles are all well-mannered on leash. I worked with the two I acquired as puppies from an early age, and then we used to run a lot and they just fell in line. I'm a huge proponent of exercise (for both humans and canines alike).  

Like other posters here, I like Victoria Stillwell's method of turning around or just stopping when a dog is pulling. They soon realize that pulling doesn't get them what they want, and that's to move forward. And yes, again this doesn't work with all dogs. I'm also not an advocate of prong and choke collars--namely for the reasons Aidan and CM have stated. 95% of people using such devices have no clue what they're doing, and thus do more harm than good. Gentle Leader head collars? As a horse person, halters are very much for horses and not dogs! 
I found this amusing: Gentle Leader Frequently Asked Questions - Premier Pet


> How does a Gentle Leader® Headcollar work?
> The principle behind the Gentle Leader Headcollar is one that allows owners to communicate with their pet *in a way that dogs instinctively understand*. Huh? The nose loop encircles the dog’s muzzle and applies light pressure in the same manner in which the lead dogs naturally communicate with dogs lower in rank. Because of the placement of the nose loop, the dog immediately understands his/her place in the hierarchy. The dog considers the owner his/her leader.


 Again, huh?
Those martingale collars are awesome though. I also detest retractable leashes. How can you have any control over a dog on a retractable leash? I can't tell you how many times I've been wrapped up in those while trying to run (solo). 

On any given day, I can go for a walk with my dogs / run and the majority of people are _being walked by their dogs_, large and small. There's something wrong with this picture. It's not so bad when it's a pomeranian or yorkie (*speaking purely to safety issues, as ALL dogs, big and small, should and can be well-mannered on leash*), but when it's a powerful breed like a pit bull or a rotweiller, it's an accident waiting to happen (IMHO).


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Using a choke collar in my house would be BAD NEWS! My dogs always wear their martingale collars very loosely, and we walk on the prong collars. When walked alone they do fine on their flat collars, but when walked with each other it's a race to see who can choke themselves first. When walking with prongs I am able to control both standards without them doing any harm to themselves by choking.

I wish I could just tell them "The reason you can't breathe is because you're pulling" but I'm still waiting for them, and about 70% of dogs I groom, to understand this logic.


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## EmilyK (Mar 26, 2011)

We have hired a personal dog trainer to train us to train our dog and she just recommended the Sporn Halter which loops around their legs and pulls a bit on the top of the legs when you yank it - really around his armpits. The collar part sits very low, almost around his shoulders more than his neck. Our spoo was already doing fairly well on the leash but still needed some work and this really seems to do the trick gently. She also suggested switching back and forth between attaching the leash to the regular collar and the halter depending on how he's doing and in the interest of weaning him off the halter. This might be an idea for you if you have some corrections to make but nothing major like a completely out-of-control puller that is unmanageable.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

outwest said:


> I have used choker collars on a lot of dogs. They aren't meant to 'choke' them. You use them as a quick jerk that releases instantly. You MUST put them on correctly or they do not release. Too many people put the ring coming up from the bottom and then it truely is a choke collar that does not release instantly and serves no useful purpose in my opinion. The ring the leash attaches to must come across the top of the head on their right side with the dog is on the left. These were a must have with my boxers! I didn't have to resort to the pinch collars.
> 
> That said, I now have a whippet and a standard poodle puppy. The whippet did not require a choke chain. With his long, thin neck I didn't want to hurt him (boxers have huge muscular necks). A whippet breeder recommended the Martingale semi choke collar. I was so happy with it that I decided to use one on my standard puppy. I have had great success with it for her, too.
> 
> ...


That's the collar that is on Lou all the time,(picture attached) it's great for walking her, it only tightens to the exact size of her neck, so she cant escape. 

I also have a prong collar but dont use it too often (its great, she doesnt pull at all with the prong collar)

But I wanna buy a collar for identification only that does not loosen or come off unless I take it off. How much "slack" does a regular identification collar need to have? 1 finger? 2? I'm going to buy one today and use the other collar for walks only.
Any suggestions? Thanks so much


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