# Expert advise needed...



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Would she allow you to visit and see the living conditions for yourself?
Puppies need socialization and enrichment, but I am not sure that means meeting a million people before you bring them home. On the positive side, it is good to live near the breeder and be able to assess the pups temperament for yourself, and not have to take it if you feel it has personality issues....
Is all of the appropriate health testing done?


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Just want to suggest if you haven't yet, you might take a look at this puppy buying thread.:clover:
http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/33522-buying-puppy-safely-basics.html#post395874J


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## Mrs. Shannan (Nov 18, 2012)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Would she allow you to visit and see the living conditions for yourself?
> Puppies need socialization and enrichment, but I am not sure that means meeting a million people before you bring them home. On the positive side, it is good to live near the breeder and be able to assess the pups temperament for yourself, and not have to take it if you feel it has personality issues....
> Is all of the appropriate health testing done?
> 
> ...


Yes, I believe she would. I didn't ask her but I assumed after speaking to her that she handles them often. It's just that other people are not around. I spoke with a few people that have pups from her and both were extremely happy and said that her dogs have the most wonderful personalities and are healthy. I believe she does the genetic testing but that's something that I will have to double check on just to make sure. I spoke with her originally about a year ago.

Thanks for your input.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I would not buy from a breeder who doesn't breed for the WHOLE dog. Not for one aspect. Find a breeder who breeds for health, beauty/conformation and it's a biggie...temperament. Puppies should be well socialized in the home from birth to about 16 weeks and thereafter.

I second Chagall's advice.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Mrs. Shannan said:


> Yes, I believe she would. I didn't ask her but I assumed after speaking to her that she handles them often. It's just that other people are not around. I spoke with a few people that have pups from her and both were extremely happy and said that her dogs have the most wonderful personalities and are healthy. I believe she does the genetic testing but that's something that I will have to double check on just to make sure. I spoke with her originally about a year ago.
> 
> Thanks for your input.


I think that it is important that you have heard from others who were pleased with the pups - if the health testing is there, you are able to visit and think that the living conditions are good, and are able to choose your own puppy that obviously has good temperament, I think that it should be fine.
What she said may have been meant in a different way - perhaps she was saying that her adult dogs are not too friendly when folks come to visit because they don't get a lot of visitors. Many poodles are not the type to run up to say hello to any stranger, but at the same time are VERY connected and interactive with the people that they know.

In fact, in my personal experience, my most connected, heart dog who followed directions from me in public like she was on remote control, could not have cared less about anyone on the planet but me - she was not afraid of strangers and tolerated them when she needed to, but she could care less about anyone but me.
And, on the other hand, my least connected poodle - the one who flails if I try to hold her for more then 15 seconds, is the first one to run up to strangers. I still remember the time that I took my three to the doggie gym, I took them out of their bag, and they were jumping around at my feet while I turned to hang up my coat, and within 5 seconds, I hear "Hi Tangee, how you doing Tangee, Hello Tangee", looked up to find that Tangee had managed to sneak into the enclosed play area with someone and was making the rounds greeting every person there, while my other two remained at my feet, never thinking of leaving my side. So I'm not so sure that "being social" is always as good as it sounds! If you see that her dogs are very connected and responsive to HER, then I think that is the only "breeding for temperament" that you need - you can take that quality in a puppy, and keep it mostly for you, or broaden it with the experiences that you provide as it develops.
You did not say what size poodle you are looking at - if it's a Standard, you will likely be allowed to take it home much younger then a toy, so will have even more input into the socialization, so if the puppy has a good starting temperament, you should have no worries at all!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Oh, and the prime thing that I look for in a puppy to judge if they have a good, human connected temperament is if they will comfortably and happily lay belly up in my arms without trying to turn over or get away.
Tangee was bought long distance and I was mislead on that. My other two were from a different breeder, also sight unseen, but were "belly-up" as promised and could not be more perfect!


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

A beautiful, SICK dog would not be much fun IMHO.


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## AngelsMommy (Nov 3, 2012)

I do not know this breeder, and I do agree that you need to find out about health testing. But if allowed to come and look at her pups on site, you will learn alot more than any other way. Being there you get the full sense of things. From sight to smell to hearing what is going on. Healthy pups smell better, lol!

Whatever you decide I wish you all the best!


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## Mrs. Shannan (Nov 18, 2012)

Chagall's mom said:


> Just want to suggest if you haven't yet, you might take a look at this puppy buying thread.:clover:
> http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/33522-buying-puppy-safely-basics.html#post395874J


I read this the other day and I think it's great!! I'm going to call the breeder again and ask her if I could come by to see her facility. I went back and checked my notes and she does the testing for the eyes for sure not sure what else but I will find out. Another person said she spent the entire day there with her and her dogs before picking out the one she wanted. I don't think that will be an issue. Thank you to everyone for your expert advise, I appriciate it all. BTW, I am getting a toy.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Best of luck! Other possibly useful links, which you may already have seen.
Versatility In Poodles - Find A Poodle
http://www.vipoodle.org/PDF_Files/TestsforToyPoodles.pdf


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Mrs. Shannan said:


> I read this the other day and I think it's great!! I'm going to call the breeder again and ask her if I could come by to see her facility. I went back and checked my notes and she does the testing for the eyes for sure not sure what else but I will find out. Another person said she spent the entire day there with her and her dogs before picking out the one she wanted. I don't think that will be an issue. Thank you to everyone for your expert advise, I appriciate it all. BTW, I am getting a toy.


That sounds great - please let us know how it goes!


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Something about the "I breed for beauty" sort of stopped me........I'd look for someone who said they breed for health and temperament, first, etc. but that's me.


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## HerdingStdPoodle (Oct 17, 2012)

*Beauty-Health-Temperament*

:cheers2:


Mrs. Shannan said:


> There is a breeder here in Jacksonville Florida that from all accounts seems to be the picture of perfection. Her poodles have won numerous championships and other breeders have given thanks to her on their websites for allowing them to have one of her dogs.


Please read the article by fmj. If a poodle breeder has numerous championships and other breeders have given thanks (recommendations)---I would certainly put this breeder at the top of my list! I'll bet that h/she would willingly provide you full access to their home to view their puppies! Socialization has many interpretations and definitions! Please call the breeder and take a look for yourself! :cheers2: Best Wishes, HerdingStdPoodle


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## Poodlemana (Sep 14, 2013)

*Precautions*

Please make sure that she does all her testing before visiting a litter. It is so easy to forget everything when you see a cute little puppy. Not so much when dealing with orthopedic problems or other health issues later. Also, I wouldn't be too concerned about visiting restrictions when the pups are first born. I didn't allow visitors for 2-3 weeks and then made all visitors disinfect their shoes in a "bath" at the door and wash hands before getting near the pups. Some people thought I was crazy but I never had problems with sick puppies. I think you should visit her before the litter is born to see how she keeps her dogs. There are some top breeders who keep their dogs like a puppy mill. You only see the show dogs in the ring and they look fine. The retired dogs and "breeders" live a horrible life. Good luck and enjoy your new puppy!


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I do not who you are looking at BUT I can give you a couple of recommendations.
1. VonStarr Poodles- this is where I got Echo my Toy Phantom. Yvonne is AWESOME. Great Groomer & almost all her dogs Compete in grooming comps. They also show in UKC & her daughter dies Juniors. Very socialized. Nice Facebook page explains so much more. I used Echos Dad as my stud with Louisa in the hopes of picking up many of his qualities.
2. Kenny the Sire at Vonstarr is a Creekvue Poodles, can't remember if in Florida but I think
3. Forever Poodles & Havanese is in Florida & Yvonne not only owns but has used Forever Stud with Echoes older Sister Pearl. 

So, I hope this helps some. Yvonne is tons of help & her pups from Pearl are around 3 wks old now. I will keep going back to Yvonne as my mentor & breed line info 411 person.


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