# Sticky  When is a Poodle not right for...



## Rose n Poos

a person? a family? 


I don't remember which member spoke of this recently so I can't give credit, and I don't remember the exact words but the gist is in the title.

Most of us have seen one or more of the periodic "Is a Poodle right for me?" threads. I remember in a discussion probably in the last year or so where a member, again, I can't remember who but I think one of our European members, wrote that in Europe, they were far more open, even to outright discouragement, when asked "Is this breed right for me?" and it wasn't likely to be.

Instead of possibly having to hurt someone's feelings, I thought if we consolidated some of these points in an independent thread, it could be helpful to some.

The idea isn't bashing but giving the reality checks that might just prevent an unrealistic choice from becoming a rehome?



There are universal things that apply to all poodles and others that apply more to specific varieties.

A universal is grooming, things like frequency, time, physical labor and/or cost, and whatever else there might be.

For varieties, some examples are toys being more fragile, miniatures being more active (I still don't see it lol), standards taking so long to mature.



What else would be good for new to dogs/new to poodles folks to be aware of and consider seriously before choosing?


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## fjm

I think most poodles of most sizes can be considered high maintenance, and not just in terms of coat care. The smaller sizes in particular have been bred as companion dogs for many, many generations and they require a lot of companionship, stimulation, and interaction. A friend who bred first German shepherds then papillons had long considered a toy poodle until she looked after Poppy for me while I was on holiday. She found the velcro tendency too much to cope with long term! Papillons are also companion dogs but in my experience they are less completely dependent on human interaction and more able to entertain themselves for a while. Tiny, non-scientific data sample, of course, but I would never recommend a poodle to anyone who was not prepared to spend many hours a day entertaining their dog.


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## Tulsi

My miniature x toy poodle, Rusty is an absolute velcro dog however he is much lower maintainance than my border collie Tass (rip) when it comes to needing to be entertained.

He has 2 walks a day up to 40 minutes each and has a gentle grooming session each day (he went right off being groomed so I am having to start with the basics).

For me the main thing is coat care. He tangles fairly easily and in very sensitive places like his arm pits and groin. He loathes me cutting the tangles and gets all wriggly ... So yeah, coat care is the biggest issue for me.

I love how clever he is and how sensitive.


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## Starla

It was @Happy'sDad who recently said a poodle isn’t for everyone, and he is right.

I’ve only a sample size of 2 standard poodles, but neither of them were inclined to crawl in my lap and settle down for a nap as puppies, which is one of my favorite things about puppies! No, both of my girls have been go go go until put away for a nap. There is no self-regulation or sweet sleepiness, just wilder antics until they’re put away. It’s like they miss the 1-year old human baby phase and jump straight to the 3-year old human toddler phase. I’ve never heard another breed referred to as “land shark” so much, and I think it’s related to that.

The intelligence. It’s one thing to know it’s a smart breed. It’s another thing to live with smart breed daily and have to stay a few steps ahead of their always-working brain. They can learn anything! But anything isn’t necessarily good, and they’re excellent self-studies.


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## Dechi

They’re very sensitive dogs. Even when confident. That means you can’t use harsh methods with them, or raise your voice too much, let alone yell or use physical punishment. 

They can’t be left alone all day when you work. They will be miserable and probably scream, howl or have other behavior problems.

They cost a lot of money to groom, or a lot of time and dedication will be spent grooming. You need to have more money than just enough to survive and feed yourself to own a poodle.

I love both my dogs, but as a disabled person, they are my last poodles. Too much work for me.


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## BennieJets

The sensitivity, I think, is huge.
I am new to dog ownership (on my own), and a poodle at that. I went into it aware I'd need to learn grooming... and I also have a lifestyle that fits being home for most if not all of the day. But I know there are a lot of folks who may mistakenly believe a poodle is the type of dog happy to be "put away" in the yard or whatnot, and brought back out when it's convenient. I have a family member who owns a mutt that spends all day in the garage or crate... I cannot fathom Bennie functioning well in that situation. I wouldn't want any dog of mine to live that way, but I think it's obvious that the sensitivity of the poodle and their need to be with their people is a biggie. 

The need for training, too... jeez if I didn't keep her brain engaged I don't want to know what state our lives would be in.


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## TerraFirma

This is a wonderful idea for a thread. 

As a future Poodle person....I will be reading! It's especially helpful to those of us who are new to Poodles if their not so ideal characteristics are compared against other breeds (i.e. I think of all Malinois as brilliant "land sharks", so if an adolescent SPoo is a "land shark" are we talking apples to apples or ... Great White vs Hammerhead? 😁). 

In my breed (SFT), discouraging people is the norm. When people notice how well behaved my two are in public and start asking what they are and where I got them, it's time to cue the truth. In the wrong hands, these cuties can be like having a brilliant ADHD child with operational defiant disorder _and_ a predilection for killin' all wee critters. In the right hands, they're amiable dolls...with a predilection for killin' all wee critters.


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## fjm

Don't want to take the thread too far off-topic, but Jerome K Jerome has a chapter on fox terriers that should be required reading for anyone considering getting one! I am sure you know it TerraFirma - in Three Men in a Boat.


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## Basil_the_Spoo

In my opinion, if your under 30, single income, making $15/hour, then a poodle is not for you.

You're probably changing jobs so your schedule is shifty, paying off debt, trying to survive, don't have an emergency fund, and not ready to settle down. So, maybe a cat is better.


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## Oonapup

One thing that I didn't exactly anticipate about my poodle, even after knowing other family-friend poodles, is how they need a variety of activities to keep them happy and balanced. It's related to their intelligence and need for stimulation. A lot of people lean hard on one or two kinds of activity to meet their dog's exercise and stimulation needs (walks + dog park or ball chasing). While that might suit some dogs, I think Oona might become unbalanced and obsessive if it was the same thing every day. She does best in a week where she gets at least 3 of the following: play with another dog, training, and some other type of physical exercise (ie, ball time, zoom games, or a quiet off leash/long line ramble). And of course, walks and play sessions in the house which don't even count. I feel like her social and academic calendar is equivalent to my 10 year old's.


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## TerraFirma

fjm said:


> Don't want to take the thread too far off-topic, but Jerome K Jerome has a chapter on fox terriers that should be required reading for anyone considering getting one! I am sure you know it TerraFirma - in Three Men in a Boat.


I do indeed, and have always assumed it's a wire. Smooths are angels with nubby horns that keep their halos in place. 😂

Back to learning about these gorgeous Poodles!


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## Mel

I agree they are very sensitive breed. Mine are both Velcro dogs. When I go to the bathroom mine are right outside the door and during showers they constantly check on me. Sandy would come right in and stare at me if I let her 🤦‍♀️. If I walk to the kitchen my dogs are right behind me . Sometimes we run and play chase on the way 🙃.

They may not be for someone who travels a lot. We do travel and usually the dogs come with us. Right now I am out of town for the week and they can’t come. It’s costing me $550 to have someone watch them for me. Last time it was over $1000. They are in a home that is not much different than mine. They can sleep in the bed and get cuddles if they want and I get daily updates. So if someone doesn’t have family that can watch their dogs then they need to factor in that cost.


They are not for the person who works all day and is only home in the evening.

A outdoor life would be torture for a poodle ..not to mention their coat would get nasty. I cant even understand someone who would want to put one outside and leave them. My MIL isn’t a dog person and for awhile she had a dog kept in the garage. It makes me upset thinking about it. Would you leave your baby outside or in the garage? Other than farm working dogs it’s abuse. Dogs not just poodles want to be your buddy or your baby and part of the family. I‘ve learned a friend of mine on Facebook is a big kennel breeder. I would not want a dog of mine to go into kennel home and would not sell a dog to them. They deserve a good life and a family that loves them.

I think toys could work with young children if they teach their child to be gentle and never let them alone together. It’s not ideal for most homes and that is why I got a mini when I had babies. Just because a young child could hurt the dog.

Grooming can be a lot of work and I don’t think some realize how much until they get a poodle. . I know I didn’t but I really enjoy grooming my own dogs so Ilearned and I am still learning. A poodle isn’t for someone who doesn’t want to take the time to groom them or take them to the groomers. I think a bath every 4 weeks isn’t often enough . On the groomers forum some charge $80 a hr. If your not grooming your own dogs then that really needs to be taken under consideration.


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## The Popster

Great thread Rose n Poos !
And have 'enjoyed' the comments.
Funny though, because - and this hurts to say - I have on occassion .... wondered... Oh, can't say it.
At least not right out.

Been a 30 odd year gap since me and 'mum' had a dog.
Kipper, a mongrol, from Battersea dogs home,, just under 1 year old when we got him.
What a boy his was.( as they all are ).
Devastated when we lost him.
It changed our lives, without the dog ownership responsibility we ended up doing a lot of long term travelling.
Which we are very happy about.
But we always knew one day we would like another dog.
As it happens in recent years good friends of ours who had dogs asked what dog would we get.
I said depends on circumstances obviously, but actually I would like a Poodle.
Oh how they giggled at that. ' Roughty toughty biker' .... ( I'm not, but they kind of say so ).( Ha!! ironically one friend now has a Cockerpoo...).

With the pandemic and lockdown, working from home for 'mum', we thought we might bring a dog back into our lives a little earlier than planned.
Mostly in the sense we plan to move out of London, countryside - and not be in a first floor flat.
Now, I suppose I could say that my recent thoughts or doubts about should we have done this ?, might be breed irrelavant to some degree.
But we are where we are and this is about ye old Poodles.

So the gamble was taken, 'mum' was going to be working from home - ( not happening back to the office two days a week next month ), so me being out to work wasn't a problem.
But I still thought we needed to make life a bit more simple ( Ha!!! ), and that meant a 'smart' dog.
And having been told by mother who was a big dog / horse person that Poodles were extremely clever .....
So a mini Poo was decided upon.

I did my research, and thought I was well aware of the high level grooming needs, seperation anxiety and possible fussy eating, and of course being such a bright animal the need for brain stimulation.
I really did lots of research.
And thought I had a handel on it.

So Sorry, but Poppy is now asking to go out, before it gets dark. I'd like to continue this later.


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## EJStevenP

Compared to other dogs I've had and known poodles are different in that:

They are sensitive and can hold a grudge. I don't care what my trainer says...they do.
They are very, very smart and know how to use things to their advantage. The big ones will track what and where something is left on a counter and snatch it when your back is turned. The little ones will sneak and grab. 
Grooming obviously. Not just the hair cuts but the brushing. Especially around the ears and tail. And of course teaching the patience to let you brush them. 
The tendency to pick a person as their preferred person and be with them. This can be hard in families with children. A friend of mine got a standard as a family dog and he only wants to be with her. He's perfectly kind to everyone else but I know her son was disappointed that the dog didn't want to cuddle with him. 
Their desire to be with their person. I've noticed as they age they have moments of less velcro behavior but it is still there.


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## Dianaleez

Normie's an emotional barometer. If one of us gets tense, he's right there trying to fix it. And of course, making things far worse. 

I would strongly suggest not putting a poodle into a tense household.


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## For Want of Poodle

If you don't want to spend 3+ hours per day with your dog, doing dog stuff every day (brushing, exercise, tricks, feeding, bathroom breaks, cuddling, etc), poodles are probably not for you. If you can't commit to that EVERY day, they are probably not for you.

If you work overtime most days or travel without your dog constantly, poodles are probably not for you.

If you have a house that's stressful/angry, probably not for you. Annie is very sensitive to angry people, even if those people aren't angry with her.

If you are paycheque to paycheque - maybe not. If I broke my arm tomorrow and couldn't groom, I would need to bring Annie to a groomer to shave her down. I need to be able to afford that. Even for people with pet insurance, being able to cover deductibles is important, plus routine vet bills. It's quite possible for a dog to end up needing specialty food, medication, etc. All these cost extra. .

If you don't have access to somewhere you can let your dog run, either offleash or ona long line at minimum, poodles are probably not for you. Having a standard poodle as a yard free apartment dweller was HARD. They need to stretch their legs at least a few times per week, not just walk sedately on leash.

If you believe dogs should do what you want just because you said so, or should fear the consequences, poodles are definitely not for you.


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## Phaz23

My poodle is more like raising a child than a raising a dog compared to every other dog Ive owned. My rottweiler growing up was a calm, independent, house ornament lol. My miniature pinscher (17 yrs old) asks for pets but then is off to her own devices for most the day and was content to be left alone for hours after around age 3.

My toy needs a structured day, good conversation, hobbies, friends, play-dates, games, sports, likes to watch basketball, enjoys a good Starbucks, and can not be left alone for longer than 3 hours (he won't scream but he’s visually heart broken if you watch him on camera). Poodles are “people” more than any other dog breed Ive met. They have preferences, opinions, friends, and enemies. They even hold grudges even lol. I think if someone isn’t ready to live with a perpetual 7 year old then a poodle may be a tough pup to live with (I know dogs are actually more comparable to 2 year olds but when I think of an adult poodle I think of more of the things a 7 year old wants to do compared to a 2 year old).


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## PowersPup

Sometimes I wonder if a miniature poodle was the right breed for me. We adopted my previous dog, a Papillon, from aging relatives when he was 5 years old - already house-trained, fairly calm and partially trained to walk on a leash. We lost him to kidney disease when he was 16 years old. For our next dog, husband wanted something sturdier than our 5-pound butterfly dog, and much less shedding. I wanted a smart dog sturdy enough to go for long hikes, canoe/kayak adventures, etc. We decided on a Havanese or a mini poodle. The Havi's long back dissuaded me a bit, plus there were very few of them available when we were searching. I found a poodle breeder who was willing to spend a lot of time educating me about the breed, and I figured I could handle one of these energetic little furballs. Maybe the ones she bred were lower energy and lower drive than the pup I brought home from a different breeder (the first breeder didn't do the recommended testing on her dogs and assured me that I could keep Topper properly exercised playing fetch in our house._

Topper requires a TON of time and attention - grooming, exercise (brain and body), entertainment, training, etc. This is a mixed blessing. He has broadened my horizons and keeps me active. I have engaged in dog sports that I may not have tried with a Havanese. I may need to up my physical fitness to do agility with him because he loves our "agility for fun" class. His velcro tendencies are very annoying when I need to leave him in the car or with another person for a few minutes. He is very dramatic at the groomer.

So, no, you shouldn't have a mini poodle if you want a couch-potato dog. You shouldn't have a mini poodle if you can't spend a couple of hours per day on exercise, entertainment and maintenance. And you shouldn't have a mini poodle if you can't afford at least $100/month for grooming (includes tip), and more for enrichment toys. And I don't think you should have a mini poodle unless you're willing to continually learn how to train an intelligent high-drive dog. They're wonderful dogs, but they're not for everyone.


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## The Popster

Back from the walk....
And Poppy managed to grab a disguarded chicken bone from the pavement!!
Ho hum...
So worry time.... but that is breed irrelavant.
As we walked round the lake I was thinking further about this thread.
I told 'mum' about it, and recounted the points that we know and many on this thread have said.
Then it struck me, just as I said 'perhaps we should have got a 'simpler' dog...' But then we would miss out on what is a quite extrodinairy experience to have a Poodle in your life!!
And actually how many owners of other breeds we meet are having all sorts of issues, not neccesarily breed related - though often is - but just dog related problems.
Some major issues in fact.
And when we hear about this or that, we sometimes say actually Poppy is a breeze!!
And in truth she is. 
Most of the problems are ours.

I have to say though, as mentioned here in several posts - the financial side is an important factor - probably the one that all my research beforehand did'nt really sink in.
Poodle's can be expensive.
Though old hands might say 'not really', if you know what you are doing, and not 'soft' ( in the head ).
Yes, everyone here has made the salieant points, I concur wholeheartedly.

But I come back to that moment walking round the lake when I realized what an extrodinairy relationship it is with your Poodle.

Poppy has eaten, and I just heard 'moan' behind me on the sofabed.... she's wanting attention.
Laters


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## EJStevenP

Another thought. If you don't want to be pinned to the couch or bed or chair for hours a poodle is probably not the best dog. Same if you don't want to be climbed on like a jungle gym. Because even though a certain poodle was able to snuggle behind my neck when she was little and a maximum of 10 pounds she still is determined to do the same even if it means draping all 70 plus pounds of herself DRAMATICALLY behind my head and down my shoulders and arms like a living mink stole. Oh and while she's there why not help herself to whatever might be making its way to my mouth.


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## Oonapup

EJStevenP said:


> Another thought. If you don't want to be pinned to the couch or bed or chair for hours a poodle is probably not the best dog. Same if you don't want to be climbed on like a jungle gym. Because even though a certain poodle was able to snuggle behind my neck when she was little and a maximum of 10 pounds she still is determined to do the same even if it means draping all 70 plus pounds of herself DRAMATICALLY behind my head and down my shoulders and arms like a living mink stole. Oh and while she's there why not help herself to whatever might be making its way to my mouth.


Hmmm why does this sound so familiar...


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## Mel

This my Nova all the time except when she is playing. She can be high energy though and when she isn’t cuddling she is running/playing or getting into trouble. She is very needy and demanding of her belly rubs and I absolutely love it. If she isn’t with me and I’m busy she is cuddled up to the kids. Sandy my bigger mini doesn’t need to be constantly touching but wants to stay close. They are so like children.


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## Anana_F

Basil_the_Spoo said:


> In my opinion, if your under 30, single income, making $15/hour, then a poodle is not for you.
> 
> You're probably changing jobs so your schedule is shifty, paying off debt, trying to survive, don't have an emergency fund, and not ready to settle down. So, maybe a cat is better.


Just curious questions because you seem straight to the point. I’m still living with my parents for the next 2-3 years because of school (vet tech), I worked my butt off for a year at a high paying job and have a lot of money saved since I barely have any expenses (also no debt whatsoever not even for school). I made the choice to not work (at least not full time) until I get my diploma, which means I have a lot of time for training/taking care of a dog, and members of my family are currently working from home so they would be able to take care of the dog during the few hours a day I’m not there. Do you think it would work? Even though I’m not settled down? I have a 99.9% employment rate in my field, so I’m pretty confident about my situation in 2 years. I want an honest opinion because I don’t have a lot of experience with poodle and wouldn’t to make a bad decision. Thank you!


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## LittleCloud

Honestly Nano is pretty chill and doesn’t need much entertaining or exercise. Although I pretty much take him with me everywhere, so I guess that counts. And I also do some trick training, fetch, nature walks and doggy school courses(plan to do truffle hunting this year), but it’s all not very structured in my week/month. In fact my breeder said he has owners who never take their dogs anywhere, so I think it might have to do with his lines(he only breeds for show, not for sports or therapy). So two 30 minute walks and some fetch works for us on most days.

He is very clingy a true single owner velcro dog but I don’t mind. I’m able to leave him home alone for a few hours, but I needed to work on it with him. 

Like many poodles, he's sensitive but resilient and also a picky eater.

I do a big groom about every 3 months, it takes a day, but that’s because I break up the tasks(brush, bath, dry, brush, trim). About twice a week I do some kind of maintenance (brushing, nail trim, face or feet trim) usually no more then 30 min.

I had a hard headed reactive puli mix before, a poodle is like a dream in comparison. Super easy to train, even temperament, eager to please, reserved with strangers at first but warms up, good with dogs, cats, humans old and young.


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## LittleCloud

Anana_F said:


> Just curious questions because you seem straight to the point. I’m still living with my parents for the next 2-3 years because of school (vet tech), I worked my butt off for a year at a high paying job and have a lot of money saved since I barely have any expenses (also no debt whatsoever not even for school). I made the choice to not work (at least not full time) until I get my diploma, which means I have a lot of time for training/taking care of a dog, and members of my family are currently working from home so they would be able to take care of the dog during the few hours a day I’m not there. Do you think it would work? Even though I’m not settled down? I have a 99.9% employment rate in my field, so I’m pretty confident about my situation in 2 years. I want an honest opinion because I don’t have a lot of experience with poodle and wouldn’t to make a bad decision. Thank you!


I also got my dog while living with my parents. It sounds like a good time to me if you can put in the work(the first 1-1.5 years can be pretty intense). My question is: What will life be like when you finish school and start working? Will you be able to take your dog to work with you or will they stay home? If the latter, for how long, and will someone be there with them? Will it work for the next 12-18 years?


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## cowpony

I think poodles are a bad choice if you aren't ready for an alert, observant, opinionated, and possibly vocal dog. All my poodles are keenly interested in the comings and goings of pedestrians, other dogs, and wildlife passing in front of my house. All of them have barked at pedestrians and other dogs. Pogo and Snarky also used to alert me to FedEx and fuel deliveries. (Galen and Ritter don't, so far.). Snarky would alert bark when he heard owls. Ritter whimpers, moans, and yodels when he wants me to get dressed faster or when he doesn't like the leash I've chosen for a walk.


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## Oonapup

cowpony said:


> I think poodles are a bad choice if you aren't ready for an alert, observant, opinionated, and possibly vocal dog. All my poodles are keenly interested in the comings and goings of pedestrians, other dogs, and wildlife passing in front of my house. All of them have barked at pedestrians and other dogs. Pogo and Snarky also used to alert me to FedEx and fuel deliveries. (Galen and Ritter don't, so far.). Snarky would alert bark when he heard owls. Ritter whimpers, moans, and yodels when he wants me to get dressed faster or when he doesn't like the leash I've chosen for a walk.


Yes, your poodle is not going to fade into the background. No wallflowers or shrinking violets here.


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## MyMiles

Basil_the_Spoo said:


> In my opinion, if your under 30, single income, making $15/hour, then a poodle is not for you.


Haha, most of these applied to me when I brought home my first poodle. Single, early 20s, entry level job... It may not have been financially responsible, but dogs never are, and my life is so much richer for having had him in it.

I think maybe this could be broadened to say that before getting a dog, people should make a realistic budget (of time and money) to make sure they can provide adequate care, and honestly asses the likelihood of their long term stability for the lifetime of the animal. Regardless of breed, people should think this through before taking on the responsibilities of a pet.


While I also have a list of things that could be problematic with poodle ownership (young kids, apartment life, personal health challenges...), I also know plenty of people navigate these challenges with a smart and active breed and do perfectly fine. I hope prospective owners can see this thread as challenges to consider and plan for rather than reasons to not get poodle or other dog. While poodles certainly aren't for everyone, I think it mostly comes down to how much mental energy you have to engage with your dog.

For instance, I was surprised and a bit worried when I learned a member of my extended family got a standard poodle. She had only ever owned cats, lived in a townhome with a tiny garden, and had already had several surgeries on her hips and back within the past few years. How on earth was she going to manage such a dog? Turns out, her boisterous giant of a poodle is the center of her world and they do quite well together. I never would have predicted just how well they get along.


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## Misteline

I think that a poodle isn't right for you if a small child isn't right for you. With no intention to over-anthromophize them, I've always thought of a dog as like a baby that will never grow up and move out. Poodles are a little further along in intelligence and creativity so they're more like a small child. They require the same amount of commitment and attention. You have to bathe them, comb and brush their hair, brush their teeth, find engaging mentally stimulating activities for them, feed them properly, lavish them with love and attention, supervise them, and all the other things you need to do for a small child.

I am Ev's whole world, and that's a lot sometimes. I'm very happy that when I decided to get a second dog I didn't get another poodle. I love Ev, and firmly believe another poodle will follow him, but I couldn't bear the weight of having two. I don't know how those of you with multiple do it. The day to day work is very manageable imo (though Ev seems pretty easy compared to some of the other members' poodles), but I couldn't provide the same amount of attention he needs to two dogs. Ranna definitely loves me, and will follow me around the house, but he doesn't _need_ me the same way Ev does. Everytime I go somewhere and Ev can't come too I feel a little guilty.


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## Spottytoes

My best friend of decades asked me just recently, what DO you do with your poodles? Why do you need to spend so much time with them and what do you actually do? She basically could not understand the time I spend. She meant it kindly but just couldn’t understand as, while dogs are fine for other people, she is not a dog person. She doesn’t dislike them, but just doesn’t relate or understand them or understand the giving up of one’s freedom, always having to think about the dog’s needs. And she seriously does not understand why poodles are so time consuming compared to most dogs she has met. It’s ok by me, I just lovingly educate 
her.😉 One of her sons has a pittie mix. Lovely family dog but pretty easy peasy as far as dogs go. I had to explain the difference as far as dog needs between a sweet pitmix and a poodle. 😉 She’s never known anyone with poodles, except me.

Anyway, back to her question. I explained a typical day and a typical grooming session. She just laughed and said, “ No way could I do that!” In explaining it all I basically said, I have a “poodle lifestyle.” 😉 I’ve been thinking about this conversation with her as I read through this thread. So many poodle truths shared. In a nut shell…you have to be willing to live the “poodle lifestyle” every, single day. 😊 People inquiring about poodles need to know this and the reality of it. Not only do you live it, it’s quite important to love it as well. And definitely, the brilliant, emotionally in tune poodle will know if you don’t. 😊😉


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## lily cd re

If you think that a poodle will be an easy keeper because of how smart they are then think again. They can be quick learners but if you try too hard and overdrill them then they will get creative and change the exercise on their own. You may not love what they do with it. They can learn by watching and as noted above they know where you leave things. If they have interest they will snatch the item when you aren't looking. Their cleverness can lead to you being trained by your dog not the other way around. I had that happen when Lily was young. For one example she figured out that if she sat crooked at heel I would have her fix it and then she would get a treat. Pretty soon she would sit straight and if no cookie was given the next time she would sit crooked on purpose, dopey me I fell for her trap and had her straighten the sit then give a cookie. She conned me out of many cookies that way.

Smart and easy to train don't always go together.


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## Rose n Poos

I grew up essentially with miniature poodles so that's all I have for my frame of reference. The boxer and somekindofterrier are too far back in my past to remember much about life with them. 

After joining PF to thank the collective members for sharing their experience and knowledge, and gain some of my own, my two boys and I survived their puppyhood. It had been over 30 years since there was a puppy in the house, so I was sort of starting from scratch and just figured whatever we were going thru was nothing unusual. 

Land Sharkery, house-training, other training, play, exercise, cleaning, near complete exhaustion for the first 2-3 months, more than a few breakdowns into tears and wondering if this was a horrible mistake and I'd need to find them another home, doing all this without much in-house support, oh, and severely sprained wrist after stepping on and falling over puppy Neo making me one-handed for those early months, that puppy time I wasn't prepared for. It may have been good that I didn't have other breeds to compare to. 

Fast forward and I think of some threads where folks had already committed but were writing in here, so overwhelmed by what they'd taken on, not fully knowing, and wondering if they should rehome their poodle. The biting, the jumping and being knocked over, often their first dog or first poodle. 

It's usually a standard, but not always. Thinking on those threads, I wouldn't call a standard poodle a starter dog if someone new to dogs, especially poodles, was looking at them as a first dog. 

Those of you with standards, would you generally agree or disagree? Would this apply to miniatures and toys too?


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## Basil_the_Spoo

Anana_F said:


> Just curious questions because you seem straight to the point. I’m still living with my parents for the next 2-3 years because of school (vet tech), I worked my butt off for a year at a high paying job and have a lot of money saved since I barely have any expenses (also no debt whatsoever not even for school). I made the choice to not work (at least not full time) until I get my diploma, which means I have a lot of time for training/taking care of a dog, and members of my family are currently working from home so they would be able to take care of the dog during the few hours a day I’m not there. Do you think it would work? Even though I’m not settled down? I have a 99.9% employment rate in my field, so I’m pretty confident about my situation in 2 years. I want an honest opinion because I don’t have a lot of experience with poodle and wouldn’t to make a bad decision. Thank you!





LittleCloud said:


> My question is: What will life be like when you finish school and start working? Will you be able to take your dog to work with you or will they stay home? If the latter, for how long, and will someone be there with them? Will it work for the next 12-18 years?


There's an age old "test". Would you rather have 1 marshmallow now or wait and have 2 marshmallows later?

Instant gratification vs. Delayed gratification 

Adding ontop of what @LittleCloud mentioned. I think "if there's a will, there's a way" to make it work, but if you intend to use family for free baby sitting, has that been discussed with them? If not, what's your gameplan? Are you/can you bring poodle to work? If not, how much is day care? What's your plan B?

If you're making $15/hr full time, then you'll be bringing home $2000/month. 

Making decisions to say "yes" to whatever comes your way is a heck of a lot easier when you only have 1 mouth to take into consideration. But some other things that you need to consider/factor --

Do you intend to drive to get around? Do you need to save for a car? How much is insurance? How much do you spend on gas/mo?

Do you plan to live at home forever? (No lol). How much is rent for a studio? How much is utilities (gas, garbage, electrical, internet)? + Pet fee? 

What's your social life like? Going out with friends is expensive. 

Are you dating or involved with anyone? Dating is expensive.

How far below your means do you live? What does your budget look like? How much do you spend on yourself a month? You will know by tracking your expenses.

Are you maxing out your Roth IRA and HSA contributions every year? (This is the goal)

How much expendable income do you have?

Just because it might look okay now doesn't mean it will for the course of your poodles life. I think exercising delayed gratification in your 20s with no poodle is the way to go so you have less baggage.

Some of the best advise I got from a mentor was to live like you make $12 an hour. Then once you make $30+/hr you will have options.


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## Spottytoes

To answer Rose n Poos, personally, I would not recommend a Standard Poodle for a first ever dog particularly if not exposed to them. I’m guessing not every pup was like Bobby but he was not an easy pup and he wasn’t my first. We were not nearly prepared enough for Bobby for the reasons stated, the mouthing, jumping, the training, etc. I cried many times thinking we made a mistake or that we were ruining our dog. Fast forward…Bobby is a wonderful dog. He’s not perfect, too smart sometimes, but definitely an amazing dog who has taught us so much. I do not think we could have managed well such a dog if he had been our first. I don’t know what other Standards are like but it sounds like Bobby was not unusual. 

Not sure about a mini since our Joey is a second dog who plays with Bobby and burns a lot of that puppy energy through play. He’s been a pretty easy puppy. I would say that definitely certain things are easier so I would be inclined to say a mini would be better for a first time dog owner. Definitely easier to groom, not as strong but definitely faster! Man they can run fast! They are more portable. Joey is definitely easier to train. He’s much easier to walk at his young age too. Joey hasn’t pulled me to the ground like Bobby did when was younger. Every dog is different though. This is just my experience.


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## Misteline

Rose n Poos said:


> I grew up essentially with miniature poodles so that's all I have for my frame of reference. The boxer and somekindofterrier are too far back in my past to remember much about life with them.
> 
> After joining PF to thank the collective members for sharing their experience and knowledge, and gain some of my own, my two boys and I survived their puppyhood. It had been over 30 years since there was a puppy in the house, so I was sort of starting from scratch and just figured whatever we were going thru was nothing unusual.
> 
> Land Sharkery, house-training, other training, play, exercise, cleaning, near complete exhaustion for the first 2-3 months, more than a few breakdowns into tears and wondering if this was a horrible mistake and I'd need to find them another home, doing all this without much in-house support, oh, and severely sprained wrist after stepping on and falling over puppy Neo making me one-handed for those early months, that puppy time I wasn't prepared for. It may have been good that I didn't have other breeds to compare to.
> 
> Fast forward and I think of some threads where folks had already committed but were writing in here, so overwhelmed by what they'd taken on, not fully knowing, and wondering if they should rehome their poodle. The biting, the jumping and being knocked over, often their first dog or first poodle.
> 
> It's usually a standard, but not always. Thinking on those threads, I wouldn't call a standard poodle a starter dog if someone new to dogs, especially poodles, was looking at them as a first dog.
> 
> Those of you with standards, would you generally agree or disagree? Would this apply to miniatures and toys too?


Evelyn is my first dog to own, but I lived with a variety of breeds before him (giant schnauzer, Bichon Frise, border collie mix, bearded collie, some kind of weird German shepherd mix). A lot of the people who seem to have the biggest issues with their poodle seem to have done minimal research and more often than not have never spent enough time with a young poodle to know what they're signing up for. I'm not convinced they're any worse starter dogs than most active breeds, but I don't think any of the breeds I've lived with would be considered "easy." I think a poodle is a terrible choice to rush into or to underestimate the work involved for, but unless you're going for a couch potato breed every dog is going to be a lot of work and have their foibles. In some ways I would say he was the perfect first dog for me because I had to learn to do so many things to care for him. But I got a dog because I needed a reason to keep going, so a low maintenance breed wouldn't have worked. If I had the life I have now when I got him, maybe he would have been too much. But I'm not sure if I would have the life I have now if I hadn't have gotten him then.

(Of course my experience isn't universal. Most of the behavior issues people with standards post about on the forum I didn't experience with Ev. He never nipped and rarely jumped or knocked me over. My biggest problem with him is his separation anxiety, which I think is a risk with poodles of any size. I'm not a exceptional owner. I exercise him far less than advised and work between 8-10 hrs a day. From home now, but a year or so ago I was working retail.)


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## Starla

From 8 months ago, :


Starla said:


> Phoebe is 11 weeks today, about 15 inches tall, and 16.4 lbs. She’s had the pukes for the past day, so she’s just on plain chicken, which she loves! It’s a really, really, REALLY good thing she’s not my first dog, or I would think there is something wrong with either her or me, because she is so difficult!


Looking back, I haven’t enjoyed her puppyhood like my past dogs, and I’m one who really loves puppyhood typically. I love _her_, but I am looking forward to when she is more mature, and I know I won’t be looking back on her puppyhood with heart eyes!

However I do disagree with waiting until you’re 30 to have a pet. If you have financial stability, I don’t see the point in waiting to live your life. I can’t imagine my life without a dog in it. I had so much more time in my 20s than I do now! I do think if you have to save up for a poodle then you’re probably not financially in the right place to have a dog that requires regular grooming like a poodle.


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## PeggyTheParti

Fabulous thread. I’ve nodded along with every post, and laughed along with more than a few. 

I recall a member a while back who accused some folks here of “gatekeeping” poodle ownership. But I don’t think that’s what Poodle Forum is about at all. Nor do I think that’s what this thread is about.

We want to see poodles thrive rather than just survive. We’ve seen the misery of people who come here overwhelmed and ill-prepared for the demands of raising a happy, healthy poodle. We empathize with them, and we know their poodle is struggling right along with them. That hurts a poodle lover’s heart.

Peggy blossomed into an indescribably wonderful companion when we learned to meet her needs. In theory, anyone can do that. But I do think it takes a special sort to a) have an interest in figuring out what those needs are and b) have the time, desire, and financial freedom to fulfill them.


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## Misteline

Starla said:


> However I do disagree with waiting until you’re 30 to have a pet. If you have financial stability, I don’t see the point in waiting to live your life. I can’t imagine my life without a dog in it. I had so much more time in my 20s than I do now! I do think if you have to save up for a poodle then you’re probably not financially in the right place to have a dog that requires regular grooming like a poodle.


I agree that waiting until you're 30 isn't a bright line rule I would endorse. Different people want and prioritize different things in their 20s and for most that money would not be going into their savings regardless.

But I disagree that needing to save up is a sign that you're not ready for a poodle. I definitely had to save up for Ranna and should have saved up for Evelyn, but I don't think that having to save up is a sign of not being able to afford him. Although grooming is expensive it was definitely easier to factor into my budget than to drop $2000+ on a whim ever will be, and I have a good set of clippers that costs the same as a single groom. I may not be able to do the same quality of cuts that a groomer or someone with more tools would be able to, but Evelyn is taken care of.

Frankly I doubt all that many members are in a position to just spend $2000+ on a dog without some form of pre-planning.


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## PeggyTheParti

I got Gracie (half poodle) from a pet store in my 20s. I was on my way home after dinner with a friend and just wanted to peek in at the adorable rabbits. But....there she was.

Our chemistry was so immediately apparent, so intense and instantaneous, I actually opened up a line of credit with the store (eeeeeesh) and bought her on the spot. In retrospect, that decision could have financially ruined me for many years. Luckily I was able to pay her off before the predatory interest kicked in.

I don’t think we need to write rules for poodle ownership. Just offer up a reality check:

Gone were spontaneous post-work drinks. Gone was a good chunk of my disposable income, as I had to pay for a dog walker, regular grooming, and the medical bills that go hand-in-hand with sickly puppy mill puppies. Gone was that glorious freedom of being an unencumbered single 20-something in a cool city.

In exchange for those sacrifices, I got the greatest companion of my life. My truest love. And I learned so much about selflessness and responsibility. No regrets.

BUT, as I entered my 30s, my life promptly started twisting and turning. With a standard poodle, I’m not sure I could have enjoyed the ride the way I did. I’m not sure I could have taken that ride at all.

For that reason, I will always encourage people to go small with their poodle if they don’t have at least a basic plan in mind for how they want their next 15 years to look. And if those next 15 years are likely to include a baby, I would encourage them to think doubly hard about getting a poodle at all. Just too many sad stories.


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## Raindrops

I am 30. I got my poodle when I was 27. I make less than 30k a year and live in a crazy expensive city. I am a full time PhD student. I rent an apartment or cottage depending on the year. I have no family living in this area of the country.

Based on some of these comments I think some people in this thread might write me off... which I do find kind of silly and maybe I feel a bit of classism. I can see where some people would read gatekeeping. Though I also know plenty of our members make it work just like I do.

My dog gets 1.5-2 hours of outdoor exercise everyday. He is on the highest quality raw diet. I groom him myself and he has never been to a professional groomer. He attends weekly agility classes. He has had health insurance since the day after he came home.

A person's income and living situation or even job shouldn't prevent them from being a good poodle owner. What's important is for them to know the costs involved, the time involved, the exercise needed, and how different factors might make things easier or more difficult. Dogs are _wonderfully_ adaptable and you can provide a dog with a wonderful life even if you have limitations. It is only important that someone know what they would need to do to accommodate a dog.

Regarding things that might make a poodle a poor fit... I would say they are emotionally sensitive dogs. They are not a good fit for people who want a simple-minded dog that won't have complicated emotional responses. My boyfriend is terrible at reading Misha. He prefers more simple dogs that aren't so emotionally dependent.

My poodle is _not soft_ and actually needs decent corrections. I know many poodle owners report their dogs are the same way. It varies by individual and line.

I would agree that they are not for a person who is not able to commit to grooming needs. This could be a shavedown every 6 weeks for low maintenance. But if long hair is desired that is a lot of in between maintenance. Home grooming is also time consuming and initially expensive. Grooming is the main reason I caution others of the breed. But it can be managed by anyone if they commit.

They are smart dogs that need mental stimulation and lots of time spent with owners. They are not outside only dogs. They are not good for very low activity people. Smaller poodles are indeed easier to accommodate than larger ones.

I'm very glad my dog's breeder didn't see any of my qualifications as lacking. I think she would agree that it was a good choice on her part.


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## Misteline

The space issue is definitely one of my biggest pain point with regard to having a standard. The bigger the dog the harder it is to rent with one and travel with one. I'm not sure that a mini has the type of personality range I'm looking for, but a toy seems too delicate. Next time I'll probably put in more effort to get a small standard. If Ev had grown as big as the breeder expected (65+lbs) it would have been a big problem. I looked at his birth weight and his rate of growth with the breeder and made an informed bet that she was wrong and the growth charts were right. Thankfully the growth charts were right and he's under 50lbs.

My job is location dependent and the cost of homes in my area is high enough that it is unlikely that I'll ever be able to afford a house on my income alone. So whether I can rent with a dog is a big factor in what I can keep. 50lbs is the weight limit in my area for most rentals unless you're willing to pay a very high amount in rent or live in very bad neighborhoods.


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## Miki

There are hundreds of kennel helpers, grooming assistants, kids of professional handlers, etc. (among others who got bit by the poodle bug) who saved and saved and listened and learned and took the plunge without that proverbial pot to piss in and are now the awesome, responsible, experienced breeders we rely on today to keep our breed going as the best it can be. 

If someone can save for a well bred poodle, they've pretty much proven they can figure out how to pay for the ongoing costs of owning any doggo. Should they know some of those costs specific to poodles - financial and time-wise - upfront? Fer Shure, especially after committing to the upfront price. But give them the credit they deserve.


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## twyla

I say I want a laid back easy keeper, that means something vastly different in the world of dogs. My poodles are low drive for poodles.
Poodles are smart, busy and very vocal( mine are not barky although if not reminded they would because weee) they have so many vocalizations.
I waited a long time to get a dog my first poodle yes she came from a pet store. Baby was wonderful and trying, so trying I never wanted another puppy. I instead brought home three adults. I tragically lost my Baby in a freak accident she was 8 1/2 three days later I got my beautiful Beatrice.
People who want poodles should find a reputable breeder, it is so worth it. Owning any pure bred dog is an investment..
I am seven poodles in, although I am not crazy for puppy antics, perfer them 2 years or older as we all know that hasn't happened and I will strive through puppy training again to get my poodle to a good place.
I have found training never stops, the joy and woes of a thinking dog. 
I bathe my poodles every other week with a full groom they once a month, there are faces to wash and trim in between along with regular nail care. I am consistent about grooming, it is the only time I give treats to my dogs well besides trick training. They get treats after the bath and blow dry, and again after clipping and trimming.
It makes me cringe every time I hear a poodle needs to be groomed every 6-8 weeks, it should say professionally groomed and regular daily brushing and combing.
If you cannot take care of that long hair cut it off,.
Train those little poodles, they need structure.


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## Happy'sDad

This thread is a really great idea. Of course, grooming is my number one reality check for prospective Poodle parents. It's so important because both the dog and owner could end up suffering if grooming is neglected.


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## 94Magna_Tom

I'm single, financially well off, and took an early retirement. I've always wanted a dog, but never thought it would be fair to the dog to have him while still working (being away) 8-10 hrs/day. Elroy, Standard Poodle, is my first dog ever. Under these circumstances, a Standard Poodle is not too much! I'm so glad I chose this breed!


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## Mfmst

Buck is my first poodle, after years with dim, aloof Scottish Terriers. I don’t regret the poodle experience/life, but it’s been a steep learning curve with respect to training. Costs of grooming, insurance were not an issue at this point in my life, and I have 4 fenced acres. Thank goodness, I could afford weekly private training for his first year plus. I was out of my depth with a MENSA dog. Eric, a PF member from Australia, who had trained dogs for the police, first wrote that they were not the easiest breed for a novice trainer and thankfully I read that post before Buck came home. LilyCD just reinforced that on this thread. 

I don’t think a Spoo is the best choice when you have small kids. Age 10 and up and it could be great. A mini is not going to knock them flat with their exuberance, nor intimidate their friends as much. (Some of my son’s friend’s were frightened by a Scottie!). A toy is too delicate for many households with kids, all ages. Most of my life with dogs, also included kids, which is why the mention of this concern. That said, I have read of smooth integrations into young families of poodles, all sizes on PF. I can’t trust Buck with the young grandsons, other than a meet and greet. I can’t risk any tears on their infrequent visits. He is not chill enough, especially for the wild four year old. Give him a wild 11 year old and it would be fair


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## TerraFirma

So grooming, costs, and intelligence aside, do you all find that you have to put breakables up out of reach with an adult Standard who has been through training and understands house rules? 

This may sound terribly shallow, but I really value my furniture, rugs, and decor. I've _never_ had a dog (not even my 90lb Doberman or GSD) that even bumbled into things. You reinforced a leave it, gave them their beds and treats, and no issues. Even Christmas trees loaded with antique glass ornaments I've never given a second thought, and my dogs are free range. My family swears I have brainwashed every dog I've ever owned....but....uh....tell me it's not like bringing a Tasmanian devil into the house for 12-15 years. lol


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## The Popster

Rose n Poos said:


> I grew up essentially with miniature poodles so that's all I have for my frame of reference. The boxer and somekindofterrier are too far back in my past to remember much about life with them.
> 
> After joining PF to thank the collective members for sharing their experience and knowledge, and gain some of my own, my two boys and I survived their puppyhood. It had been over 30 years since there was a puppy in the house, so I was sort of starting from scratch and just figured whatever we were going thru was nothing unusual.
> 
> Land Sharkery, house-training, other training, play, exercise, cleaning, near complete exhaustion for the first 2-3 months, more than a few breakdowns into tears and wondering if this was a horrible mistake and I'd need to find them another home, doing all this without much in-house support, oh, and severely sprained wrist after stepping on and falling over puppy Neo making me one-handed for those early months, that puppy time I wasn't prepared for. It may have been good that I didn't have other breeds to compare to.
> 
> Fast forward and I think of some threads where folks had already committed but were writing in here, so overwhelmed by what they'd taken on, not fully knowing, and wondering if they should rehome their poodle. The biting, the jumping and being knocked over, often their first dog or first poodle.
> 
> It's usually a standard, but not always. Thinking on those threads, I wouldn't call a standard poodle a starter dog if someone new to dogs, especially poodles, was looking at them as a first dog.
> 
> Those of you with standards, would you generally agree or disagree? Would this apply to miniatures and toys too?


On balance, knowing what I know now, if someone was thinking about getting their first dog, then I would advise against a Poodle.
But then I would probably advise against certain other breeds too.

I would also advise against a rescue older than 1 year, pedigree or mongrol.

My advice would probably be a mongrol .... 

Breeders bare a responsibility too.
Afterall Battersea dogs home and other such organisations have really upped their requiremnets for rehoming, compared to 40+ years ago when I got our Kipper from Battersea.

A nice couple we have met in the park had two male sibling Border terriers from puppys, same age as Poppy.
As well as a not uncommon genetic problem with gluton intolerance / scavanging leading to mini fits, out of the blue the two brothers began to fight, really fight.
A not unexpected problem with this breed.
As first time dog owners I surprised that the breeder sold them the siblings, with or without an warning - simply should not have done.
So sad as they were heartbroken, having to give one of the boys up.
Whilst they love their dog(s), without any experience of dog ownership it really has been a rough journey for them - a simple mongrol, rescue or not might have been a better intiation to dog ownership.

That is of course not to say that a mongrol won't be a problem possibly inheriting negative traits traits from it's parents, but....

Responsibility, human responsibility.
I know shouldn't throw stones, glass houses and all that... latest news from the UK is the dog care / walking business is booming.
Because those ( like us ), who used lockdown and working from home as an excuse to get a dog are now returning to the office!
Hmmmm.... Poor Poodles in that mix I'm sure.
Ho hum.


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## The Popster

And yes there are certain factors associated with Poodle care ( I prefer care to ownership ), £'s $'s 💇‍♀️ 💈🥩💡📚💔😍
But ultimately the most important thing with care for a dog / horse / is COMMUNICATION.
If you can't communicate or don't have the patience to develop that 2 way communication, then probably any animal in your care is not the best option.


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## Spottytoes

The Popster said:


> On balance, knowing what I know now, if someone was thinking about getting their first dog, then I would advise against a Poodle.
> But then I would probably advise against certain other breeds too.
> 
> I would also advise against a rescue older than 1 year, pedigree or mongrol.
> 
> My advice would probably be a mongrol ....
> 
> Breeders bare a responsibility too.
> Afterall Battersea dogs home and other such organisations have really upped their requiremnets for rehoming, compared to 40+ years ago when I got our Kipper from Battersea.
> 
> A nice couple we have met in the park had two male sibling Border terriers from puppys, same age as Poppy.
> As well as a not uncommon genetic problem with gluton intolerance / scavanging leading to mini fits, out of the blue the two brothers began to fight, really fight.
> A not unexpected problem with this breed.
> As first time dog owners I surprised that the breeder sold them the siblings, with or without an warning - simply should not have done.
> So sad as they were heartbroken, having to give one of the boys up.
> Whilst they love their dog(s), without any experience of dog ownership it really has been a rough journey for them - a simple mongrol, rescue or not might have been a better intiation to dog ownership.
> 
> That is of course not to say that a mongrol won't be a problem possibly inheriting negative traits traits from it's parents, but....
> 
> Responsibility, human responsibility.
> I know shouldn't throw stones, glass houses and all that... latest news from the UK is the dog care / walking business is booming.
> Because those ( like us ), who used lockdown and working from home as an excuse to get a dog are now returning to the office!
> Hmmmm.... Poor Poodles in that mix I'm sure.
> Ho hum.


There is something to be said about a mixed breed for a first dog although every dog, every person and every situation is unique. I’m just sharing my experience. 

Our first dog as a married couple, Corky, was a small lab mix. His litter was brought to a vet clinic to be euthanized and of course, the clinic wouldn’t do it and found homes for the pups. This was 30 years ago. He was bottle fed and taken care of at the clinic until 8 weeks old which at that time we brought him home. The kids were thrilled. We knew the basics of dog care but not much. We muddled through. He was a happy boy who loved his people and all who walked through our doors. He adorned kids and teenagers. He had a few issues but really, considering, he was a great family dog considering we didn’t do any formal training. I will say, the expectations were “lower” so things that would bother me now didn’t bother me then. 😉 He was amazingly healthy too. No health issues whatsoever until he was an old dog, not even diarrhea. He was an easy keeper and he lived until 14 years. At that time in our life a poodle definitely would not have been a good choice for us. As an older couple now, I do think a mini poodle would be a quite doable 
as a first dog though.😊


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## EJStevenP

cowpony said:


> All my poodles are keenly interested in the comings and goings of pedestrians, other dogs, and wildlife passing in front of my house.


God yes! Heaven forbid someone walks down the street!


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## cowpony

I think a lot of people get into trouble when they see pictures of cute fuzzy poodle in an Asian fusion clip and think the dog will be content to hang out on the couch like a teddy bear. Just because a poodle might look like a plush toy doesn't mean he has the passivity of one.

I do think, also, that people can be matches for unlikely dogs when they truly understand what they are getting into. An example that comes to mind was an elderly couple that picked up an Aussie from a shelter. The shelter was dubious. This was the couple's first dog ever, elderly people aren't known for having a lot of physical stamina, and Aussies drink rocket fuel for breakfast. It worked out beautifully. The couple had the time to dote on the dog, and they spent all day entertaining him with games of fetch and various mental challenges. Compatibility really requires people to understand the dog's needs and make a realistic commitment to meeting those needs.


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## lily cd re

One thing that cowpony's last post above made me think about was something that I have always wished for as a trainer...pre-purchase/pre-adoption screening to match people with dogs that will be excellent companions for one another. In the first part is the lack of understanding of certain expectations such as a tpoo in an Asian fusion being somehow automatically just a cute couch potato. The time (even just day to day at home) and the expense of an extraordinarily skilled groomer will not show in a cute online pic.

I would not particularly think of an elderly couple being a good match for an Aussie, but a couple of interactive pre-adoption sessions of this couple with the dog they ended up adopting would have shown that it really would be a good match.

This is such an awesome thread I just "reported" that I think it should be made a sticky.


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## cowpony

lily cd re said:


> One thing that cowpony's last post above made me think about was something that I have always wished for as a trainer...pre-purchase/pre-adoption screening to match people with dogs that will be excellent companions for one another.


This is one reason I like working with a good breeder who does interviews. A while back I applied to purchase a puppy from a breeder who gets a lot of performance titles on her dogs. The sire and dam were gorgeous and had health screenings to the sky. The litter was the color I wanted. The line produced dogs in the size range I wanted. There were puppies available after the waiting list obligations were met. And...the breeder rejected me. She felt the puppies would have too much drive for me to handle. Did the rejection sting? Of course. However, I don't take that rejection personally. That breeder knows her dogs better than I do. She knows how they think and what it's like to live with them. In looking out for them she was also looking out for me. I have no hesitation in recommending her for other interested puppy buyers and have, in fact, done so.


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## MyMiles

TerraFirma said:


> So grooming, costs, and intelligence aside, do you all find that you have to put breakables up out of reach with an adult Standard who has been through training and understands house rules?


I think if this is something you care about and have trained before, you can teach a poodle to behave in your house. 

I will say that poodles can be super curious, and some are more prone to standing on their hind legs than other dogs I've met - so manners training is essential. My current pup (still very much in Tasmanian Devil/ Chaos Gremlin mode) is very interested in what's on surfaces above his head. Not necessarily to steal or destroy, but he just wants to check it out and has the height and agility to do so. An adult poodle that visited my house had a similar tendency, but his people had discouraged it to the point that he would just stand on his hind legs to look, sometimes barely touching the edge of the table/counter with his front paw to balance. 

My previous gentleman of a poodle was occasionally tempted by food on an unattended counter, but was never as curious and nosey as the other two I described. So some of this may vary by individual personality.


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## Oonapup

TerraFirma said:


> So grooming, costs, and intelligence aside, do you all find that you have to put breakables up out of reach with an adult Standard who has been through training and understands house rules?
> 
> This may sound terribly shallow, but I really value my furniture, rugs, and decor. I've _never_ had a dog (not even my 90lb Doberman or GSD) that even bumbled into things. You reinforced a leave it, gave them their beds and treats, and no issues. Even Christmas trees loaded with antique glass ornaments I've never given a second thought, and my dogs are free range. My family swears I have brainwashed every dog I've ever owned....but....uh....tell me it's not like bringing a Tasmanian devil into the house for 12-15 years. lol


I think this one varies a lot. Oona, now 1.5, generally leaves things on surfaces alone and I hope to keep it that way. She also leaves rugs alone now and doesn't chew furniture, books, or moldings. Occasionally though she does go looking for trouble and will grab paper to shred or pencils to chew (only from the low coffee table though). When we first started letting her sleep uncrated we would do a general pick up of stuff that we wanted to keep safe from her. Now she's fine at night and we don't need to pick much up (except used cloth napkins and rubber erasers, which are irresistible if in reach). As Canadians we do keep our shoes in the mudroom so I don't know if she would try to chew these if they were more accessible. The first Xmas with her she was still very much a puppy and we did block her from the accessing the tree and ornaments by putting the ironing board in front of it. I think she'd be ok with that kind of thing now. I don't think she'd have interest in breakable ornaments but might be interested in ones that look like toys, food, or stuffies.


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## Nana06

I work an average of 11 hours per day (my boyfriend works around 13). I'm 27. I live in a flat in a very big and urban city (London). I never had a poodle before. Actually I never had a dog before - only cats. Heck, I never even lived with a dog before Wellie. I'm the first family member to ever get one. 

Taking into account all of the above, people would have perhaps told me that a spoo was not for me but I am certainly glad they did not, because I would have listened. And I would have missed out on one of the most beautiful love stories of my life.

I think poodles are for everyone, as long as you are willing. I love this thread because it educates future dog owners - I think people need to know what they might get and decide whether they are willing to take it on or not. Please do not think your situation prevents you from getting a poodle, you can *rise* above that. Just think whether you are willing/ would be happy to take on this mission. You CAN but do you WANT to? Yes, they usually need exercise, yes, they need a lot of grooming, yes they are often very velcro, yes they struggle with being left alone (even for 10 minutes).

I knew my hours were long but I wanted to brush my dog at midnight if needed. I knew the park was far but I wanted to go every morning for an hour when it's still dark. Thanks to PF I felt I knew a lot, and I wanted all of it <3 Best decision ever.


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## Happy'sDad

Mfmst said:


> I don’t think a Spoo is the best choice when you have small kids. Age 10 and up and it could be great.


This is exactly why prospective Poodle parents need to do some honest self-analysis. Happy is wonderful with small children. Has she inadvertently knocked them over during spirited play? Of course she has. But one of the reasons we gravitated towards a SPOO was being robust enough to withstand our, at the time, 5 year old son. I also think most Poodles have a great temperament towards kids and other animals when properly exposed. I would definitely recommend a SPOO for families with small kids as long as they’re willing to properly supervise and correct during kid/dog interactions.


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## beowoof

i'm 27 and also a full time, PhD student. i agree with Raindrops that poodles, even smaller ones are work. at 11 months, my mini Kirby feels like a part-time job. i was used to much more relaxed dogs but also dogs much less capable of learning, growing and being truly in tune with me.

i spend 3-4 hours on Kirby daily be it grooming, walking, training or spending focussed companion time together. the first few months of having him my work and research really suffered. i felt like i had nothing left for myself. it's really only been this year that i feel like we've settled into a routine that allows me to get work done and allows his needs to be met. structure, routine and having a mental checklist of: exercise, mental stimulation, play, feeding, handling... it can be a lot at times and living in an apartment has its own host of challenges. i feel like i have been pushed to grow and really learn to be more patient, more forgiving, more routine - but i've certainly had my share of meltdowns along the way. training and maturation takes time, repetition and patience. i'm grateful to have him, but would certainly tell people to think twice before getting a poodle.


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## PeggyTheParti

This great thread is now a sticky in our Finding the Right Puppy & Breeder forum.  I hope prospective poodle owners find it helpful. Thanks, @Rose n Poos!


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## Retro Chick

I gotta say, this is the kind of stuff I hate about these forums. I know it all seems to come from a helpful place, but really, who are we to decide what is right for anyone? I think we’re all under the delusion that if we just say the right thing we can prevent a rehome, and I admit I’m guilty of thinking that from time to time too, but at best its a waste of time and at worst it’s extremely arrogant. People will still get pets they aren’t ready for and rehome them because it’s just not always possible to tell until you do it. And some people never learn and won’t listen and can’t be taught. And it isn’t our place to teach them anyway. And wouldn’t our time be better spent lifting each other up and encouraging and telling people why they can make it work? We are ultimately not responsible for other people’s decisions. Poodles as a breed are supposed to be considered such a great breed because of their universality. We aren’t talking dangerous guard dogs here, and how many people buy Pitt bulls that are no where near able to handle them?

waste of time.


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## Misteline

Retro Chick said:


> I gotta say, this is the kind of stuff I hate about these forums. I know it all seems to come from a helpful place, but really, who are we to decide what is right for anyone? I think we’re all under the delusion that if we just say the right thing we can prevent a rehome, and I admit I’m guilty of thinking that from time to time too, but at best its a waste of time and at worst it’s extremely arrogant. People will still get pets they aren’t ready for and rehome them because it’s just not always possible to tell until you do it. And some people never learn and won’t listen and can’t be taught. And it isn’t our place to teach them anyway. And wouldn’t our time be better spent lifting each other up and encouraging and telling people why they can make it work? We are ultimately not responsible for other people’s decisions. Poodles as a breed are supposed to be considered such a great breed because of their universality. We aren’t talking dangerous guard dogs here, and how many people buy Pitt bulls that are no where near able to handle them?
> 
> waste of time.


People ask, and if some forum members want to discuss it why not start a thread about it? 

Although I haven't agreed with everyone else's opinions I have enjoyed reading and replying to this thread.


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## TerraFirma

Retro Chick said:


> I gotta say, this is the kind of stuff I hate about these forums. I know it all seems to come from a helpful place, but really, who are we to decide what is right for anyone? I think we’re all under the delusion that if we just say the right thing we can prevent a rehome, and I admit I’m guilty of thinking that from time to time too, but at best its a waste of time and at worst it’s extremely arrogant. People will still get pets they aren’t ready for and rehome them because it’s just not always possible to tell until you do it. And some people never learn and won’t listen and can’t be taught. And it isn’t our place to teach them anyway. And wouldn’t our time be better spent lifting each other up and encouraging and telling people why they can make it work? We are ultimately not responsible for other people’s decisions. Poodles as a breed are supposed to be considered such a great breed because of their universality. We aren’t talking dangerous guard dogs here, and how many people buy Pitt bulls that are no where near able to handle them?
> 
> waste of time.


From my perspective, and perhaps I'm accustomed to far more negative/blunt talk being a Terrier person, this is a very positive, practical thread. 

Maybe it doesn't prevent a rehome, and definitely, people who see a dog as a disposable accessory or are of the "a dog is a dog" mindset won't be persuaded to think otherwise. But, this is valuable information for those of us who don't have poodle experience and are concerned about making a wise decision. Just because I _can_ make it work doesn't mean I will _enjoy_ and feel _fulfilled_ making it work. May no one ever leave me with a Labrador--sure, I can make that universally easy happy dog work, but I'll always wish he wasn't a simple hairy bumbling Lab. Only through knowing the good, the bad, and the ugly can we make an informed decision of what will be the most seamless fit into our lives. 

So, thanks to all for sharing because it's definitely making me think deeply.


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## Rose n Poos

PeggyTheParti said:


> This great thread is now a sticky in our Finding the Right Puppy & Breeder forum.  I hope prospective poodle owners find it helpful. Thanks, @Rose n Poos!


Thanks for this news. Many of us have joined PF because there were things we didn't know, or needed help with, and along the way many of us found other things we didn't know about because it had never come up before.



Retro Chick said:


> who are we to decide what is right for anyone?


I hope this discussion will always get new comments and continue to give folks things to consider and to research for themselves before they make that lifetime commitment.


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## Minie

I think this is a great thread. When looking to add our second poodle, I have used information, stories and experiences from others to ask informed questions to the breeder. It turned out beautifully. 
I think the most important thing to know is, that poodles are super intelligent and if bored, will find something creative to do. It might not be something you want. So help keep them occupied and train them to settle aswell to avoid being over stimulated. They are sensitive and pick up on your mood and feelings - and react on that. They have such huge personalities and will creep in under your skin. I often hear people talk about their best dog as a child (a poodle) and when they see our poodles feel the urge to reminisce. Walking a poodle forces you to be sociable.


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## kontiki

Mfmst said:


> Thank goodness, I could afford weekly private training for his first year plus. I was out of my depth with a MENSA dog. Eric, a PF member from Australia, who had trained dogs for the police, first wrote that they were not the easiest breed for a novice trainer and thankfully I read that post before Buck came home. LilyCD just reinforced that on this thread.


Yup - a MENSA dog. That says it. You need to be able to stimulate them, not just keep up with them but be one or two steps ahead, and continue to do so. Or you will be the one being trained. So many people have told me, "I am going to get a poodle too because I want one just like yours. He is so awesome!" I explain they can't buy one like this. It is a huge amount of training and work involved. They always look a bit deflated.

And now he is 12 and sadly slowing down, but then so am I at 75 I do not know if I have it in me to do all over again. I wish he was still 3


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## TuttoBene

TerraFirma said:


> This is a wonderful idea for a thread.
> 
> As a future Poodle person....I will be reading! It's especially helpful to those of us who are new to Poodles if their not so ideal characteristics are compared against other breeds (i.e. I think of all Malinois as brilliant "land sharks", so if an adolescent SPoo is a "land shark" are we talking apples to apples or ... Great White vs Hammerhead? 😁).
> 
> In my breed (SFT), discouraging people is the norm. When people notice how well behaved my two are in public and start asking what they are and where I got them, it's time to cue the truth. In the wrong hands, these cuties can be like having a brilliant ADHD child with operational defiant disorder _and_ a predilection for killin' all wee critters. In the right hands, they're amiable dolls...with a predilection for killin' all wee critters.


I can only speak to the Standard Poodles, my own first and those I know through owning my Standard Poodle after a lifetime of greyhounds. The land shark reputation may be from their puppy period where they just plain like to bite.. and bite: your clothes, your hands, anything that moves. They are NOT killers. (unlike greyhounds which can go either way).

Poodles do require grooming. 

Poodles are very intelligent and need to be engaged or they can turn into mischievous rascals and make their owners very stressed. Yes, you do have to stay one step infront of their thinking. It helps that I am a decent chess player.

Having a Standard poodle isn’t about getting a dog. It’s about getting a hobby.The poodles I know are very engaged in their owner lives and visa versa. The most common topic of conversation is “what classes are your dog taking.”
If they are not learning..they are thinking..and that can lead to trouble. Hahaha.

They like to play. My dog’s motto is Ludere Supra Omina “Play Above All”. Learning always has to be fun. If something makes you laugh..even a naughty behavior.. they will relish that reaction and play the same behavior over and over for your “delight”.

My biggest regret? Not getting a Standard Poodle sooner.


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## Happy'sDad

TuttoBene said:


> Having a Standard poodle isn’t about getting a dog. It’s about getting a hobby


You nailed it!


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## Mfmst

Retro Chick, I think this thread and the forum, in general, are more about sharing experiences and advice, and helping members rise to meet any challenges they face. I did steal that verb, rise, because that’s what I had to do. Members helped and no one suggested I shouldn’t have gotten a poodle, that I wasn’t worthy of a poodle. You can make poodle ownership work in an apartment, on limited income especially if you DIY groom and your dog is healthy. (Pet insurance is more affordable in the early years.) What is necessary for a poodle is fair and constant training, exercise, attention and fun. Poodles are slow to mature but retain a joie de vivre that means they will always act younger than their actual age. They keep you on your toes for a long time which is a positive aspect, unless you thought you were getting a couch potato after one year.


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## Lubancoco

Dechi said:


> They’re very sensitive dogs. Even when confident. That means you can’t use harsh methods with them, or raise your voice too much, let alone yell or use physical punishment.
> 
> They can’t be left alone all day when you work. They will be miserable and probably scream, howl or have other behavior problems.
> 
> They cost a lot of money to groom, or a lot of time and dedication will be spent grooming. You need to have more money than just enough to survive and feed yourself to own a poodle.
> 
> I love both my dogs, but as a disabled person, they are my last poodles. Too much work for me.


I can understand about the grooming. That’s why I only have one toy poodle dog, at a time. During the pandemic I learned to groom my poodle myself after watching a bunch of grooming videos and having the time to do it because Covid killed my career. 
I have kidney problems and couldn’t be around it, as a nurse. Anyway, I live in an expensive area and it was costing me 90$ a pop, with tip, to get my late poodle groomed and I couldn’t afford it anymore. It also helped toward the end of her life, when she was ill and wouldn’t tolerate a full grooming session so it took me several days, in short snippets.
I enjoy the grooming sessions with my dog but can see why it could be exhausting if one is disabled. I am enjoying my last poodle puppy. If she lives a long life, I probably won’t get a puppy again, but an older poodle rescue. Puppies are very entertaining but exhausting.


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## Starvt

Misteline said:


> I think that a poodle isn't right for you if a small child isn't right for you. With no intention to over-anthromophize them, I've always thought of a dog as like a baby that will never grow up and move out. Poodles are a little further along in intelligence and creativity so they're more like a small child. They require the same amount of commitment and attention. You have to bathe them, comb and brush their hair, brush their teeth, find engaging mentally stimulating activities for them, feed them properly, lavish them with love and attention, supervise them, and all the other things you need to do for a small child.
> 
> I am Ev's whole world, and that's a lot sometimes. I'm very happy that when I decided to get a second dog I didn't get another poodle. I love Ev, and firmly believe another poodle will follow him, but I couldn't bear the weight of having two. I don't know how those of you with multiple do it. The day to day work is very manageable imo (though Ev seems pretty easy compared to some of the other members' poodles), but I couldn't provide the same amount of attention he needs to two dogs. Ranna definitely loves me, and will follow me around the house, but he doesn't _need_ me the same way Ev does. Everytime I go somewhere and Ev can't come too I feel a little guilty.


This exactly is how I feel!
I'm not the kind of person to say my pets are my babies/kids etc, but I have told my kids that Raffi is like my next child.
100% I feel guilty if I can't take him with me. My husband asks why he is the favored dog- but you are exactly right- he just needs me more. I have two other dogs but I don't think I could own more than one poodle at a time. 
And yet, when I consider all my dogs (and previous ones too), Raffi is the easiest to live with. 
Hard to explain how that is not a contradiction, but it's the truth!


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## lily cd re

I don't think we can expect to make decisons for people here, just to offer experience so that prospective new owners can learn and take all kinds of information on a puppy decision into account. For people who think this kind of discussion is a waste of time you don't have to participate.


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## Raven's Mom

Poodles do become a lifestyle more than many other breeds. I have told many people that I vastly underestimated the time and energy commitment. I had always had herding breeds, which were intelligent but nothing like Spoos. Raven was such a difficult puppy, her care and mental needs ran my life for the first year or more. I fully intended to do obedience all along with her but it was so much more than what I had done with my collies. I do my own grooming and enjoy that aspect. She is willful but sensitive, fearful but headstrong. I have certainly learned a lot. I absolutely have fallen in love with the breed, but I am not sure about another puppy… may go with another young adult Rehome like my boy, who I got at 22mo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Retro Chick

lily cd re said:


> I don't think we can expect to make decisons for people here, just to offer experience so that prospective new owners can learn and take all kinds of information on a puppy decision into account. For people who think this kind of discussion is a waste of time you don't have to participate.


I wanted to participate to voice a different opinion. I’m not just trying to stir the pot for the sake of irritating all of you, I really do believe what I said and I have every right to voice it. I don’t recall reading anywhere on this forum that you had to agree with everyone and not ever make anyone uncomfortable in order to be a member. If I was just spouting off to play devils advocate then yeah, you’re right, I shouldn’t participate. But I do feel strongly and differently than a lot of you. That’s ok, I still get to have a seat at the table.


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## PeggyTheParti

A good conversation is never a waste of time, so let’s not derail it.  All perspectives are indeed welcome, as long as they’re delivered with kindness and respect.

Here is the original question again, for anyone who’d like to weigh in:



Rose n Poos said:


> What else would be good for new to dogs/new to poodles folks to be aware of and consider seriously before choosing?


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## Minie

Retro Chick said:


> I wanted to participate to voice a different opinion. I’m not just trying to stir the pot for the sake of irritating all of you, I really do believe what I said and I have every right to voice it. I don’t recall reading anywhere on this forum that you had to agree with everyone and not ever make anyone uncomfortable in order to be a member. If I was just spouting off to play devils advocate then yeah, you’re right, I shouldn’t participate. But I do feel strongly and differently than a lot of you. That’s ok, I still get to have a seat at the table.


I definitely agree with you about the importance of voicing different perspectives. As the original question was about important things to know and consider before getting a poodle, then that is what most of the posters responded to. That is a very individual response. I responded to your post, because I read it as an attempt to shut down a thread you did not agree upon. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I now see you reserve the right to your opinion, as everyone else does. Thankfully there is room for all here. 🙃


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## NaturalPoodle

This has been a very helpful thread, thanks to all who shared, all opinions on poodles and the thread itself were great.

I am a member of this forum not as a poodle owner but as a poodle enthusiast, and everytime I get the "I want a poodle" bug, things like this help me immensely. My health at the time definitely does not accommodate 3 hours a day of attention to this wonderful breed, and to be honest I am such a low maintenence person that plants seem like too much work to me.

Maybe one day things will change for me, but for now all this doesn't mean I cannot continue this poodle obsession I have as it's own hobby, whether it is reading these wonderful threads on PF, learning more about the breed, attending shows or stopping people on the street walking these magnificent creatures


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## fjm

I met a striking example of a dog not right for a particular home yesterday - not a poodle but a cockerpoo. A dog walking acquaintance is looking after him for a friend of a friend - the rather elderly owner had fallen and is in hospital with a broken shoulder. The dog is 9 months old, had never been groomed properly so was severely matted when it arrived; it's nails were so overgrown that the dew claws had grown round and into the skin; he had never been off lash and barely walked even on leash; having spent his entire life glued to his owner's side has severe separation anxiety, chewing up car or house if left alone for even a few minutes; and was being fed a cheap older adult food completely unsuitable for a still growing pup. This is a dog that is greatly loved by an owner who has no idea how to care for him - top of the list of his favourite things was a MacDonald Happy Meal, with fries but no pickle! Informed that the dog had now been groomed, price a very reasonable £45/$60, and needed to be clipped again in 6 weeks max, the owner was first horrified at the cost and then upset at the lost shagginess. When told he was also now crated in the car she disliked the thought of him being in a cage...

You will be glad to hear that when I met him Charlie was running joyously across the fields with the other dogs, revelling in being free of painful mats and claws. He is on a more appropriate diet, has started crate training and learning how to be alone, and it is being gently intimated to his owner that he might be happier in a more active home.


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## Johanna

Mfmst said:


> I don’t think a Spoo is the best choice when you have small kids. Age 10 and up and it could be great.


When I was breeding standard poodles I had a couple of people who came to buy a standard because they had young children. In one case, that turned out to be a life-saving decision - the poodle saw their toddler heading for a drainage canal and ran out to grab the child by his clothes and drag him away from danger. The parents of that toddler came back many years later to buy another standard poodle. 

I had one standard poodle who was great with handicapped children and with children in general. I took him to the center for children with cerebral palsy from time to time. For those children who were unable to sit or stand, he knew to carefully lie down next to them. He was is full show coat, so kids loved to bury their hands in all that fur!


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## Charmed

Life with poodles is not an owner/pet relationship. It is more like a dance. A good fit happens when you learn to dance together. You learn the rhythm of your partner and what works best with that individual. I have had three poodles; all were very different form each other. The female was stand-offish and attached very strongly to one person and all children. The second was very focused and calm taking in new things for a few moments before acting. He was slower to learn than the female, but was rock solid when he got it. Both did therapy work, but she did it because she thought she deserved to be worshipped by everyone. He did it because he truly loved everyone. I learned to tailor visits to fit the dog. She loved nursing home and special education visits. He preferred mobile kids, giving them cart rides, running around the field with them and doing tricks. My third poodle was born happy-go- lucky. I learned when he needed to be calmed down and how to best enhance his training sessions with out squelching his joie de vivre. So they all were great partners but I had to learn how to dance with each of them. Poodles are not a one size fits all type of temperament.


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## flashieparti

Rose n Poos said:


> I grew up essentially with miniature poodles so that's all I have for my frame of reference. The boxer and somekindofterrier are too far back in my past to remember much about life with them.
> 
> After joining PF to thank the collective members for sharing their experience and knowledge, and gain some of my own, my two boys and I survived their puppyhood. It had been over 30 years since there was a puppy in the house, so I was sort of starting from scratch and just figured whatever we were going thru was nothing unusual.
> 
> Land Sharkery, house-training, other training, play, exercise, cleaning, near complete exhaustion for the first 2-3 months, more than a few breakdowns into tears and wondering if this was a horrible mistake and I'd need to find them another home, doing all this without much in-house support, oh, and severely sprained wrist after stepping on and falling over puppy Neo making me one-handed for those early months, that puppy time I wasn't prepared for. It may have been good that I didn't have other breeds to compare to.
> 
> Fast forward and I think of some threads where folks had already committed but were writing in here, so overwhelmed by what they'd taken on, not fully knowing, and wondering if they should rehome their poodle. The biting, the jumping and being knocked over, often their first dog or first poodle.
> 
> It's usually a standard, but not always. Thinking on those threads, I wouldn't call a standard poodle a starter dog if someone new to dogs, especially poodles, was looking at them as a first dog.
> 
> Those of you with standards, would you generally agree or disagree? Would this apply to miniatures and toys too?


I wouldn't call a Poodle a "starter" dog, simply because of the large amount of coat care. I am currently raising Standard puppy #6, and while he is challenging (and I'm older!), his intelligence and quickness to learn is astounding. All pups are different. I've had quiet ones, dumb ones (who was a wonderful pet), byb dogs (both exceptional), self-reliant dogs and velcro pups. But what dog is "easy"? Puppies are a challenge, and many people underestimate the amount of time, patience, and training it takes to raise a "good dog!"


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## Raven's Mom

My mother had bouviers for years and that is also a breed where the devotees of the breed frequently caution others the breed may not be right for them. Many of the same issues apply… grooming, size, length of time to maturity. Obviously, there is less change of someone getting a bouv so not as big an issue, but I think threads like this are important so people ever the relationship with appropriate knowledge!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sooky

TerraFirma said:


> From my perspective, and perhaps I'm accustomed to far more negative/blunt talk being a Terrier person, this is a very positive, practical thread.
> 
> Maybe it doesn't prevent a rehome, and definitely, people who see a dog as a disposable accessory or are of the "a dog is a dog" mindset won't be persuaded to think otherwise. But, this is valuable information for those of us who don't have poodle experience and are concerned about making a wise decision. Just because I _can_ make it work doesn't mean I will _enjoy_ and feel _fulfilled_ making it work. May no one ever leave me with a Labrador--sure, I can make that universally easy happy dog work, but I'll always wish he wasn't a simple hairy bumbling Lab. Only through knowing the good, the bad, and the ugly can we make an informed decision of what will be the most seamless fit into our lives.
> 
> So, thanks to all for sharing because it's definitely making me think deeply.





Minie said:


> I think this is a great thread. When looking to add our second poodle, I have used information, stories and experiences from others to ask informed questions to the breeder. It turned out beautifully.
> I think the most important thing to know is, that poodles are super intelligent and if bored, will find something creative to do. It might not be something you want. So help keep them occupied and train them to settle aswell to avoid being over stimulated. They are sensitive and pick up on your mood and feelings - and react on that. They have such huge personalities and will creep in under your skin. I often hear people talk about their best dog as a child (a poodle) and when they see our poodles feel the urge to reminisce. Walking a poodle forces you to be sociable.


I find this an extremely useful thread! I had a mini poodle decades ago and I would never recommend a poodle to someone unless they were willing to commit financially, emotionally, and understand how engaged and attentive they needed to be with this breed. I don't think I realised how much 'work' was involved when I had my minipoo - she was a first-time dog for us as a couple (altho he had grown up with a minipoo). In retrospect, it was to our advantage that we had no kids. I brushed Keiko almost every day (I just really enjoyed it, too); I clipped her nails and plucked ear hair; she got a lovely haircut every 5-6 weeks max; I had a set of dental tools and scraped her teeth at least 1x a week (she'd lie down on the table and actually fall asleep while I did this!); she ate a high quality raw food diet; she went to agility classes; i trained her; I took her to parks where she could run off-leash at least once a day; she went everywhere with us; slept with us; was rarely alone; and my husband built a back yard agility course for her to use. She WAS our child! I ended up divorcing and moving back to Canada from the US when she was about 5. It was a no-brainer to leave her with him bc he could take her to work every day where she was with humans all day and I knew he would lavish her with love and attention. I was going to grad school and knew there was no way I could provide her with the quality of life she'd always known. All that to say - true responsibility for any sentient creature is a serious endeavour, and all the more so for this breed. They are highly perceptive, sensitive, intelligent, require a lot of input, and suffer when not an integral member of their pack! Just as children are NOT for everyone, it's the same for a poodle.


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## Charmed

MyMiles said:


> I think if this is something you care about and have trained before, you can teach a poodle to behave in your house.
> 
> I will say that poodles can be super curious, and some are more prone to standing on their hind legs than other dogs I've met - so manners training is essential. My current pup (still very much in Tasmanian Devil/ Chaos Gremlin mode) is very interested in what's on surfaces above his head. Not necessarily to steal or destroy, but he just wants to check it out and has the height and agility to do so. An adult poodle that visited my house had a similar tendency, but his people had discouraged it to the point that he would just stand on his hind legs to look, sometimes barely touching the edge of the table/counter with his front paw to balance.
> 
> My previous gentleman of a poodle was occasionally tempted by food on an unattended counter, but was never as curious and nosey as the other two I described. So some of this may vary by individual personality.


This reminds me of the bowling bin game we played out at the dog yard. Nine pins were set up in a triangle about a foot apart. The original goal was to send your dog through the pins and get them to knock over as many pins as possible. Australian Shepherds did exceedingly well at being "destructos." My old girl poodle invented her own version of the game, which became an option...the goal was to send your dog through the pins without knocking any pins over. Poodles did very well at not even touching the pins. So your household delicate objects would certainly have been safe with her.


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## PhoebeDuck

I was told not to get a poodle because they're high maintenance. So am I, thank you very much! I was warned about the coat maintenance, read online that they are very smart (I think the articles understated exactly how smart!), and read that they are energetic. This all matched what I wanted in a dog. What I was never warned about was their prey drive, although perhaps I should've figured that out on my own. My three cats are just now coming back inside the house, and it's been almost 7 wks since we brought Phoebe Duck home. Yes, they insisted on staying outside that entire time. Only one stayed inside part of the time, and she hid in the attic. Phoebe is learning not to chase the cats, but I'm pretty sure that's because the cats first learned not to run. So a poodle might not be for you if you have small animals that make fun prey. You'll have to invest the time and energy in training one not to run and/or the other not to chase. Much easier to teach the dog to ignore a cat that just sits there. Much harder when the cat takes off. Then it's go time!!!


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## Johanna

I once had a standard poodle who had a learning disability concerning initial consonants: she could not distinguish between "rat" and "cat". She loved to hunt and kill rats (we lived in a semi-rural area of Florida). Ditto cats. One day I took her with me when I went to visit a friend who bred miniature poodles. She also had a big, black tomcat named Sugar. Sugar was sitting in the kitchen calmly grooming his face when my cat-killing poodle spotted him. She gathered herself up to pounce on her intended prey. Sugar kept cleaning his face but shot an evil side glare at the poodle. I heard her say, "Ooops, my mistake. I mistook you for a cat!", and she backed away quickly. Some cats are really, really tough!


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## Tulsi

Rusty (mini x toy poodle) was really good with my rabbits (never in the same room as them) until I moved one outside in a shed and run so that she could be next to two of her friends (tried to bond them into a trio but the two girls fought).

She is a very brave and active rabbit and Rusty has started to rush her. She ignores him but I have put double fencing up around her run so that he cant get too close.

He knows I dont like him doing it and tends to save it for when he is crazy tired and looses some impulse control.


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