# Spoo Service Dogs



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

I train psychiatric service dogs. 

I am in intense pain now, I will be back and very talkative later when I feel better.


----------



## Northern Lights (Feb 26, 2012)

tortoise said:


> I am in intense pain now, I will be back and very talkative later when I feel better.


I hope you're feeling better quickly! :smile:


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

I had dental work done last week. It's getting better. I was at the end of a dose of pain meds.

I tend to write too much and be overwhelming, so I think I'll stay back a bit unless you have specific questions.


----------



## Northern Lights (Feb 26, 2012)

O.K. -- Specific question --

Do you train them for public behaviors first, or do you train the service behaviors at the same time? I'd been planning to train for the CGC first, then add the service behaviors, but was very impressed to see the video of a quite-young Ziva pushing a button on command. Because the main service I need involves pushing a button, I'm now thinking about starting that early.


----------



## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

*Northern Lights:*

PF member *Sookster *has extensive experience training service dogs. I'm sure she'll pop in once she notices this thread. If not, I highly recommend you shoot her a PM. 

Here's one of her threads about Sonya (service dog in training):
http://www.poodleforum.com/3-poodle-pictures/15717-goodbye-sonya.html


----------



## Northern Lights (Feb 26, 2012)

Rowan said:


> *
> Here's one of her threads about Sonya (service dog in training):
> http://www.poodleforum.com/3-poodle-pictures/15717-goodbye-sonya.html*


*

That was beautiful! I so admire people who are willing and able to raise these pups to help others. I've been getting some advice from a friend who is a puppy-raiser for the blind; It's hard to imagine how she manages to give them back after a year together, but she's done this repeatedly.*


----------



## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

Northern Lights said:


> That was beautiful! I so admire people who are willing and able to raise these pups to help others. I've been getting some advice from a friend who is a puppy-raiser for the blind; It's hard to imagine how she manages to give them back after a year together, but she's done this repeatedly.


A dear friend of mine from work used to raise puppies for SEGDI (along with his wife). He often said that while rewarding, it was difficult to say goodbye to those pups. 
Southeastern Guide Dogs - Home

When he was transferred out of the Tampa area, he continued to help the school by fundraising for their _Paws for Patriots_ program. Of course I volunteered to help him with that endeavor--what a great cause.  

I wish you the best of luck with new SPOO--it sounds like she'll have a great home with you and your family. I'm sure *Sookster* will be willing/able to give you some guidance, and she might even know of resources in your area.


----------



## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Hey there! I will try and provide some insight here for you, but feel free to ask specific questions, either here or by PM. 

First of all, I have been a "puppy raiser" for the past 4 years and oversee a group of puppy raisers in the area that I volunteer in. I also work as a professional dog trainer and have helped several of my clients train their own service dogs. 

Second, here is a link to the access laws for Wisconsin: 
http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2005/data/acts/05Act354.pdf

Reading the laws, it is very, very unclear whether owner-trained service dogs in training are given public access rights. This law seems to lean toward only giving access rights to SDIT's that are being trained with a "school", but it doesn't explicitly state that. It does, however, make clear that any SDIT's should be clearly labeled as such, by wearing a special leash, harness, or cape, and that handlers of SDIT's can be asked to provide documentation that the animal is in fact training as a service dog. 

So in regards to your question about task training first vs socialization first: 
If your state does in fact NOT allow public access to OT'd service dogs in training, then you would need to do task training before you started public access. According to the ADA, a service dog is: 

"An animal that is individually trained to perform tasks for people with disabilities – such as guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling wheelchairs, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, or performing other special tasks."

They make no qualifying statements about the level of training the dog must have received, or that the dog must already be public access trained in order to be considered a "service dog". If the dog has been trained to do something for you that you cannot do yourself, then it is considered a service dog. 

So, *if you don't have access rights*, I would proceed with socialization to as many pet-friendly locations as possible and get started on your task training. Once your dog is reliably task trained, then I would classify it as a fully trained "service dog" and start your real public access training. You would just need to be aware that the dog may not be able to concentrate on it's "work" in the beginning of the public access training. Preparing for the CGC is a good start for this, but realize that your dog is going to have to behave far far better out in public than even CGC certified pet dogs do. Here's a link to the psychiatric service dog society's "public access test". 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cts=1331490568151&ved=0CDEQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.psychdog.org%2Fattach%2FPublic_Access_Standard_Test_Sheet.pdf&ei=_u5cT7mKNZG5twfK0fmFDA&usg=AFQjCNFGcKclJXAf83R31kkdkHCHotXscA

This test isn't required of service dogs, but is a good goal to work toward. If your dog could "pass" this test, then you are good to go on your public access. I also stress again that even if you aren't doing real "public access" (taking your dog into public places where pet dogs aren't allowed) that you should be regularly (at least once a day, 5-7 days/week) be taking the dog to pet-friendly public places. Examples are: 
-Lowes (call ahead and make sure they are pet friendly, most are)
-Home Depot (call ahead and make sure they are pet friendly, most are)
-Tractor Supply Co.
-Pet Stores (Petco, Petsmart, etc. *AFTER* the age of 16 weeks and last vaccinations)
-Restaurants with pet-friendly patio seating
-Strip malls, walking around outdoors
-Area's with heavy traffic (traffic sensitivity is a BIG deal for a lot of service dogs in training)
-You can also call a lot of your local retail stores (Target, clothing shops, etc.) and places like banks and ask if they mind of you bring the dog in. 

*If you DO have access rights*, then I would proceed with public access training immediately. You want to make sure you don't overwhelm your puppy by taking him/her on very short, low-key outings at first, and I recommend carrying pups that are less than 16 weeks old to avoid accidents out in public. Good first outings are: 
-"pharmacy" type stores such as Walgreens, for 5-10 minutes
-coffee shops during non-peak hours
-libraries

As your pup becomes older, longer outings in higher intensity situations become possible. I would not do outings longer than 20-30 minutes with a pup that isn't completely housebroken, and again I would carry puppies under the age of 16 weeks to avoid accidents and also keep them from coming into contact with pathogens. However, I highly caution against the "keep them inside at home until they are fully vaccinated" attitude because the 8-16 week time frame can be critical in developing confidence out in public. Raising and training a dog that has to be able to work and function out in public is a lot different than raising a pet, which you will come to understand fully. 

Ok, now on to training. I think you are off to a good start, but I would really suggest finding a trainer who you can work with on how to task train and work through public access problems that you have (things will happen that you don't know how to handle). There may be those who disagree with me, but I don't think service dogs can be trained reliably by _only_ using clicker training and positive reinforcement. I think that both of these things can help and get you a long way, but you are going to have to get comfortable with giving corrections to your dog. Good example: 
-It's annoying for your pet dog to jump on guests, so you use clicker training to reward for the proper behavior, not jumping. In this way, you will eventually get the dog to a point where they realize that not jumping is generally the most reliable way to get rewarded. 
-Out in public, it is absolutely *unacceptable* for a dog to jump on a passing stranger. This is something that can get you kicked out of a building in a heartbeat. So I would use stern leash corrections, coupled with praise and reward for the appropriate behavior (ignoring the stranger). This is just my opinion, but service dogs tend to need more strict training protocols and some behaviors are so completely unacceptable or dangerous that the best way to teach them is through the use of appropriately applied corrections. 

Ok this post is way too long already so I'm going to stop rambling. The last thing I want to say is be prepared for 18-24 months at least of intense, daily training. It's a lot of work to take a puppy to fully trained service dog, but it's rewarding to do it yourself and well worth the effort in the end. Please let me know if you have any specific questions and I will offer the guidance that I can. I'm no expert, by any means, but consider myself to be fairly knowledgeable on the subject. I'm not sure what the best way would be to determine if you will have public access rights or not, because it probably depends on the interpretation of the law. Maybe you could call and talk to a local representative in your area and feel them out, because sometimes city's have their own ordinances that are more compliant than state or federal laws. 

Good luck, and enjoy your new puppy! 



Northern Lights said:


> I was so excited to notice on the 52 weeks section that Ziva is going to be a service dog! I'm a newbie waiting for my spoo to be born -- she should come home late May or early June, and I'm getting her in hopes of training her to be my service dog!
> 
> Have others on here trained service dogs? I'm getting a bit of help from a friend who's a puppy raiser for a guide dog program, and I've read the Teamwork books and have the Clicker Train Your Own Assistance Dog DVD set, but I'm still planning out what and how I'll teach her and I'd love to have advice from those who've BTDT. My current plan is to train her (using clicker-training/positive reinforcement) for AKC's CGC, then add the service behaviors I need, particularly calling for help (looking for a programmable cell phone that a dog could push the button on, or perhaps we'll make a one-button holding box for the phone that would push the necessary button), elevating my feet, and giving medical equipment from her pack to someone coming to my rescue. On top of that, if she's big enough, I may occasionally use her for balance as well (I'm a small woman!).
> 
> ...


----------



## Northern Lights (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks, Sookster.

I'm trying to see whether there's a way to get documentation that my dog will be a service dog in training, but, happily, I live in a small town and should be able to get access in a lot of places just by explaining what we're doing. We've already made a list of places to socialize the puppy between 8 and 16 weeks, and then beyond. One of the places I hope to take her is to the police department, so they should know, after that, that she's a service dog in training.

I've ordered a dog stroller for some of our early outings, to keep puppy out of parvo contamination but still be able to see, hear, and smell a lot of new places, plus, there are a few places, such as my husband's workplace, where it should be safe to let puppy out and about to experience new things. (The only other dog allowed in the building is the one of the friend who's a puppy raiser for Service Dogs for the Blind.) I'm also hoping to let the pup socialize in the early days with the vaccinated older dogs of a couple of friends.

I do agree with you on the clicker/reward-based training. I'm guessing that a lot of the problems come from the people who don't study it deeply enough. Those books I've read on dog training also emphasize that the dog needs to know and obey commands such as "No!" "Off!" and "Leave it!", and I will be teaching and enforcing those, as well. I'm assuming it will be a lot like raising children -- you use games and rewards to teach them the desired behaviors, but then you expect, and insist, those behaviors to be maintained without constant reward. I have found a trainer nearby who does testing for CGC and Therapy Dogs, but, from her brochure, it seems that she may be a more Caesar Milan style trainer, which wouldn't fit us. We don't have a lot of nearby choices, so I'll probably be coming here for advice if we get stuck!

Thanks for your words of wisdom. Now I'd better get back to searching for a one-touch cell phone usable by a dog -- harder to find than I'd suspected.


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Northern Lights said:


> O.K. -- Specific question --
> 
> Do you train them for public behaviors first, or do you train the service behaviors at the same time? I'd been planning to train for the CGC first, then add the service behaviors, but was very impressed to see the video of a quite-young Ziva pushing a button on command. Because the main service I need involves pushing a button, I'm now thinking about starting that early.


Training tasks is the easy part. Really easy. 

You'll need to assess where your dog is. Some puppies (rarely) are "wash and wear", and need very little obedience or public access training. I worked with a puppy that it took 2 years to get the manners in public, but this puppy was fully functioning with the assistance tasks when she was 6 months old.


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Northern Lights said:


> Thanks, Sookster.
> 
> I'm trying to see whether there's a way to get documentation that my dog will be a service dog in training, but, happily, I live in a small town and should be able to get access in a lot of places just by explaining what we're doing. We've already made a list of places to socialize the puppy between 8 and 16 weeks, and then beyond. One of the places I hope to take her is to the police department, so they should know, after that, that she's a service dog in training.
> 
> ...


Return the doggie stroller. It will only hurt training progress. Millions of puppies DON'T get parvo. You don't let a service dog in puppy interact with other dogs. You need your puppy to grow up to ignore other dogs. "Socialize without interaction." The dogs needs to be able to move around and work without interacting with each other. If you start a puppy allowed to play, it is extremely difficult to teach. 

In WI, service dogs puppies only have access rights if the dog is being training for a school. You're supposed to have an in-training certificate from the trainer. But NOBODY knows it. In fact it's faster to get through store people if it's in training versus handling a dog for an invisible disability. Just ignore people and walk in like you own the place and you'll be fine.


----------



## swismiself (Feb 26, 2012)

tortoise said:


> In WI, service dogs puppies only have access rights if the dog is being training for a school. You're supposed to have an in-training certificate from the trainer. But NOBODY knows it. In fact it's faster to get through store people if it's in training versus handling a dog for an invisible disability. Just ignore people and walk in like you own the place and you'll be fine.


I always wondered this. Thanks for clarifying!


----------



## Nova (Mar 11, 2012)

I'm a dog trainer and I can tell you that training a dog just the basics is easy if you know what you're doing, but is a lot of work, and the work does not end. You don't just train them, and suddenly they behave and that's the all of it. You have to train them daily from the moment you get them, for many years, to have a properly trained dog. 

Everyone always asks me how I acquired such well behaved dogs, and the answer is that they weren't born that way. My oldest are four this year, and while at this age you can easily slack off on the training, you still have to do brush ups on all their obedience and 'trick' commands. 

Clicker training is the best method. It works, it's positive, and most people can learn it.

When you get to the 'service dog' portion, the problem you're going to run into is communicating what you want them to do in a way they understand.

I would recommend not taking your puppy to public places at all until they've had all their puppy shots. Parvo and distemper aren't something to take chances with. You can get puppy shots at your local feed store usually, and that will cut down on vet costs. You give them the shot between the shoulder blades, just under the skin (do not go into the muscle).

In my state service dogs have to be certified. I wouldn't undertake training them to be a service dog anyway if you have zero experience in dog training. It's going to be very tiring and difficult, and dare I say, frustrating for you. Certainly not impossible, but you're taking a big chance there if they do not turn out to be the dog you want them to be.

Hope this helps some. You might consider just looking into submitting them to a 'school' for service dogs.


----------



## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Nova said:


> I would recommend not taking your puppy to public places at all until they've had all their puppy shots. Parvo and distemper aren't something to take chances with. *I disagree with this, but you will find many opinions depending on who you ask. If your puppy came from a vaccinated mother, then they will have maternal antibodies up until somewhere around 16 weeks. For a service dog in training, those two months between the ages of 8-16 weeks are a crucial socialization and exposure period. *
> 
> In my state service dogs have to be certified. I wouldn't undertake training them to be a service dog anyway if you have zero experience in dog training. It's going to be very tiring and difficult, and dare I say, frustrating for you. Certainly not impossible, but you're taking a big chance there if they do not turn out to be the dog you want them to be. *No state can require that a service dog be "certified". It's a violation of the American's with Disabilities Act. Some states register dogs as service dogs when they sign up for their dog license, as service dogs are exempt from the licensing fee.*
> 
> Hope this helps some. You might consider just looking into submitting them to a 'school' for service dogs. *You can't "submit" your dog to any school that I am aware of for training. Service dog schools usually breed and raise their own dogs, then match them with disabled recipients. The wait list for these schools are usually between 5-10 years for a dog, hence the reason a lot of people choose to owner train instead of going the "school" route.*


*And I totally agree that it can be frustrating and difficult. There will be so many setbacks along the way, not every dog is cut out for it, and it's hard to put months and months of effort into a puppy only to realize that you may have to "wash them out" for things that are out of your control. Owner-training a service dog is hard, and not for everyone.*


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Statistics are NOT on the side of owner trained dogs. For a start, only 1 in 100 of average (shelter) dogs that PASS APTITUDE TESTING can make it to industry standard level of training. This study was done with all professional service dogs trainers selecting and training the dogs. In contrast, dogs coming out of breeding programs specifically for service dogs had a 8 in 10 (80 in 100) chance of reaching industry standard and becoming a service dog.

Now when you have a completely unexperienced handler choosing a dog without really knowing what they are looking for.... bad things happen. Even with good training, it's pretty unlikely to have a happy ending.

I've seen it happen once. I talked to the owner for hours before she picked her puppy. She had to do it due to the nature of her disability. I could not choose a dog for her and she could not get a young adult dog. I had it in writing that if the puppy didn't meet my testing I would not train with her. She worked VERY hard for 2 years and they passed MY testing. They function, but her dog will always be higher maintenance than whe I think of as a service dog. 

You MUST get your puppy out before puppy shots or you miss ALL the socialization periods. I'm not going to get into immunology here, but it's quite safe IF the mother was vaccinated or exposed to the diseases. Puppy shots are timed to "maintain" immunity as mom's antibodies fade. The only exception is if there is parvo or something going around (call the vet clinics to find out). Then I strictly avoid pet stores (usually my first training locations), and train in places with no dogs (library, grocery store).


----------

