# Flea and Tick Meds



## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

My breeder says she once had a bad reaction (seizure) in a 8-9 week old puppy with Bravecto oral meds, and recommends a topical, like Frontline, for the first couple of months. The Frontline Small is for 11-20 lbs, 9 weeks minimum age. Elroy is 9 weeks old tomorrow, and is 10.9 lbs (yesterday). I'm thinking of applying it as soon as he's 11+ lbs (probably Sunday). Any advise for topical application manner? Any Flea & Tick prevention advice in general?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Bravecto is definitely linked to seizures. And for the Frontline just follow the directions! I have decided I will not use any of the widely used things like Bravecto or Advantix anymore though. I have decided there are just too many reasons not to use them. I am going to try an essential oils based topical called wondercide, recommended to me by a friend.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

I use Nexgard for my dogs. I've found Frontline to be (considerably) less than effective in my area.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Check with your vet. Some products that are effective in one part of the country may not be in another area. I wouldn’t wan to expose my dog to chemicals that may not even be effective.

When I took my puppy in for his first visit we discussed choices and based on his weight she sent me home with a single dose appropriate medication. In his next visit, his weight changed so the dose increased to a different sized pill.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Skylar said:


> Check with your vet. Some products that are effective in one part of the country may not be in another area. I wouldn’t wan to expose my dog to chemicals that may not even be effective.
> 
> When I took my puppy in for his first visit we discussed choices and based on his weight she sent me home with a single dose appropriate medication. In his next visit, his weight changed so the dose increased to a different sized pill.


My vet said the Bravecto is safe for 8 week old puppies, but she understood my breeders concerns and was fine with Frontline for 3 months. My breeder, and Vet are both fine with Bravecto or Nexgard after that. Do you (all of you) think these are safe when used as directed? Do you need to do liver function blood testing to verify? I'm just very cautious about these meds as I lost a cat due to my improper use of flea collars (added a 2nd collar when 1st collar was ½ used up). It was a sad rookie pet owner mistake and has made me very aware of how close to the fatal edge of poisoning your pet these things really are.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

My vet gave Ritter Nexgard and Triheart Plus. I've used Frontline on my adult dogs for many years.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

My vet prefers nexguard and heartgard. I’ve also used trifexis. I have always loathed flea collars and haven’t used topical flea meds since I first got pregnant. They were losing effectiveness in our area by then anyways, it seemed.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

I've given my dogs Nexgard for years without seeing any issues. My nine year old GSD had bloodwork before a dental a few months ago, and everything looked fine. 

I also prefer an ivermectin/pytantal based heartworm preventative. That way, I can split things up, and skip the flea treatment if I don't need it.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Elroy just took his 1st Heartgard Plus, 0-25 lbs, today. The product is the ivermectin/pyrantel product, but it doesn't mention anything about it treating for fleas. Is this actually the case? Or did I misunderstand you? I still need tick protection too, so either way it probably doesn't matter much.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Tom, my vet gave me two pills, one for heartworm and one for fleas. I was instructed to wait several days between each one so if he had a reaction we could determine which medication was the problem. He was given Interceptor (similar to Heartguard)(heartworm) and Nexguard (Ticks/fleas). Frontline doesn’t work in my area. 

My vet is not using Bravecto but I’m not sure why.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

For fleas and ticks I prefer to treat the environment with diatomaceous earth rather than use poisons. I use it when I lived in Florida and Texas. You have to treat the house and the yard. Diatomaceous earth is not a poison, it is made from the shells of extinct sea animals. The stuff gets into the places between the harder "shells" of insects and abrades the "skin" until they bleed out. It is absolutely harmless to mammals. In fact, many horse breeders, owners, and trainers feed it to their horses to kill intestinal parasites. I used to feed it to my horses.

The one issue with the stuff is to avoid handling it in such a way as to produce a cloud of dust that you or your animals might inhale. It's not good for the lungs.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

Skylar said:


> He was given Interceptor (similar to Heartguard)(heartworm) and Nexguard (Ticks/fleas).


Heartgard is an ivermectin/pyrantal combo. Interceptor is Milbemycin Oxime.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I've seen some recommendations for nematodes that kill fleas outside. I think you are supposed to mix them in water and then spray the water around the yard. Has anyone tried them?


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

Cats are far more susceptible to adverse reaction to prevention (seen so many cats with seizures/muscle tremors/ twitching from pet store flea products). It's also why there are minimal options for ticks for cats.
If you use a topical for flea/tick, one way to reduce the chance of reactions is to pop open a Vitamin E oil capsule and apply it to the same spots as the Advantix/or whatever. This is a tip I got from the Advantix rep so it won't reduce the effectiveness.
Of course it depends on the area but I have seen way more illnesses from tick borne disease than reactions to prevention. And I live in Ontario, the one vet I work with said he saw way more symptomatic dogs when he worked in the States (Michigan maybe?).


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Johanna said:


> For fleas and ticks I prefer to treat the environment with diatomaceous earth rather than use poisons. I use it when I lived in Florida and Texas. You have to treat the house and the yard. Diatomaceous earth is not a poison, it is made from the shells of extinct sea animals. The stuff gets into the places between the harder "shells" of insects and abrades the "skin" until they bleed out. It is absolutely harmless to mammals. In fact, many horse breeders, owners, and trainers feed it to their horses to kill intestinal parasites. I used to feed it to my horses.
> 
> The one issue with the stuff is to avoid handling it in such a way as to produce a cloud of dust that you or your animals might inhale. It's not good for the lungs.


How do you treat the house and yard with DE? Wouldn't you need a ton of it?


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

TeamHellhound said:


> Heartgard is an ivermectin/pyrantal combo. Interceptor is Milbemycin Oxime.


Yes, different medication but the purpose is the same, to prevent heartworm.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Elroy just took his 1st Heartgard Plus, 0-25 lbs, today. The product is the ivermectin/pyrantel product, but it doesn't mention anything about it treating for fleas. Is this actually the case? Or did I misunderstand you? I still need tick protection too, so either way it probably doesn't matter much.


HeartGard plus is for prevention of heart worm disease and to treat ascarid and hookworm infections. 
NexGard kills fleas and ticks.
I use both for my dogs and have for well over 9 yearswithout any issues.
Renn however is the first that does not like to eat the NexGard so I have to split it and hide it in something tastier. I am in Louisiana and we have more than our share of pesky bugs.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Thanks for the advice thus far. I'll use the Frontline for the 1st 3 months (the package I bought has 3 doses). After that (around end of July) I'll switch to a chewable. I haven't heard from many Bravecto users here. I think it lasts 3 months vs. Nexgard which lasts 1 month. Which of the chewables would you (all) recommend? I have a lot of trees and shrubs with years of leaf litter beneath them (I'm a gardener, leaf litter is best for soil development), so I don't think I can combat fleas and ticks effectively with DE (although it can't hurt).


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

My experience in New England is that ticks and heartworm are a bigger concern than fleas. Yes, my dogs have had a few flea bites over the years, but I've never had a bad infestation take hold. (Cats are a different story.) Ticks are a seasonal thing. Spring and fall are the worst times for ticks here. They wake up and become voracious when temperatures are just above freezing. I'm extra careful with my tick exams in March and November. Ticks seem to subside when the weather is hot and dry. I rarely find ticks on my dogs or horses in July and August. 

I haven't found a product which 100% _repels_ ticks. Various products I've used over the years definitely _kill_ ticks, as I've found stone dead ticks embedded in my dogs.

They way I check for ticks is to gently rub the dog with my fingers. I concentrate on the head, ears, and neck, as these are the areas I've found ticks most often in the past. Usually I feel a small lump. Sometimes the lump is just a seed or a hair tangle; sometimes it turns out to be a tick. My favorite tick remover is Ticked Off. It looks like a teaspoon with a notch in it. Point the notch in the general direction of the embedded tick; slide the spoon through the fur until the notch catches on the tick; gently lift the spoon until the tick pops loose. Tweezers are a pain, because I have to go find my good reading glasses, set up a bright light so I can see the dratted tick, and then persuade the squirming dog to LIE STILL FOR HEAVENS SAKE. I much prefer a tool I can use under less than ideal conditions.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

94Magna_Tom said:


> How do you treat the house and yard with DE? Wouldn't you need a ton of it?


You sprinkle it along the baseboards in the house and use it in parts of the year where dogs tend to lie. It comes in 50 lb bags at feed stores and is very cheap.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Johanna said:


> You sprinkle it along the baseboards in the house and use it in parts of the year where dogs tend to lie. It comes in 50 lb bags at feed stores and is very cheap.


I think I'll get a bag and try it on some of my garden pests (aphids). I'll sprinkle it around the shaded areas Elroy likes to lay down in too. This is good because I really don't care for poisons, although I do spray my roses with a fungicide/pesticide 2x/month starting in May and thru July/August. I'll have to keep Elroy away from them until it dries. Maybe I can use it on the roses too!


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

94Magna_Tom said:


> I think I'll get a bag and try it on some of my garden pests (aphids). I'll sprinkle it around the shaded areas Elroy likes to lay down in too. This is good because I really don't care for poisons, although I do spray my roses with a fungicide/pesticide 2x/month starting in May and thru July/August. I'll have to keep Elroy away from them until it dries. Maybe I can use it on the roses too!


I use de in my garden but take care not to put it where the bees frequent, on or around blooms. It effects all bugs the same, friend or foe. 😕


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Starla said:


> I use de in my garden but take care not to put it where the bees frequent, on or around blooms. It effects all bugs the same, friend or foe.


Thanks. I read that too. I will only use it on the vegetation. No blooms. I have tons of bees/birds & blooms 3 seasons strong.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

A Bravecto user for several years now. Love that is 3 month protection. Fleas and Ticks are murderous here -I've never had a problem with the Bravecto. On Heartguard for heart worms and some other types of worms that I can't recall at this moment. Both the Bravecto and Heartguard are chewable. I keep them in Asta's treat drawer so when I take them out he thinks it is a treat. No problems with him taking them.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Some wooded areas I want to walk Elroy thru is fairly heavily tick infested (invasive barberry has taken over, and they're a tick magnet). I've given him a monthly dose of Frontline, but that won't repel ticks from climbing on board. Does anyone has experience using an essential oils based product like Wondercide or Vets Best? Seems like a good idea, but figured I'd ask here.


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## Rocky'sDad (Aug 19, 2012)

Seresto collars are under congressional investigation due to EPA concerns about its possible link to cancer in dogs. I had used a Serseto collar as well as advantix and, for heart worm, revolution at the direction of my long time vet from Angell Animal Hospital in Boston. Well, I have no idea of what caused my dog's stomach cancer last year, but will not use any of the above on my new puppy when I get him in late June. I will ask a new vet, one who cared fro my dying Rocky for a month before his passing and one whom I trust for a topical treatment that is safer than either Advantix, Revolution of the seresto collar. (Advantix and Revolution are tropical treatments, but are designed to enter the dog's bloodstream, so to me are topical only in their application, not in their design.) I understand that there is or may soon be a Lyme disease vaccine for dogs and a google search revealed a couple of seemingly safe so-called natural sprays to repel ticks and fleas.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Behavior in animals and flea meds:









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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

The way I see it is balancing risk based on what we know and how prevalent disease-carrying ticks are in your area. There is evidence of side effects like seizures from some of these meds, but they are still fairly rare. I balance that against how bad ticks where I am, where I want to go with the dog, and how worried I am about the ticks. The study referenced in the video above, on behavior change, is one study that "suggests" a correlation - I wouldn't say this is conclusive at all, but it may be something to watch for more evidence on. Also in the video he conflates the different types of medications when they aren't all the type discussed in the study, so that makes me a little suspicious that it's uncritically adopting an anti-medication stance.

On the other hand, we know with good certainty that ticks can cause serious disease and not just for dogs, but for us as well, so there's extra reason to want to avoid your dog transporting ticks into your home. We chose to give Oona Bravecto after talking with her vet and another vet who is a relative. She is in the woods several times a week and I am constantly seeing posts from members of our training group about finding ticks on their dogs. We have yet to find one on her or in the house. Could be we are just lucky, since Bravecto kills them after they bite. Our vet cousin who lives in a tick-ridden area gives her dog an oral med like Bravecto or Simparica Trio and a topical to repel/kill them before they bite.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Does anyone has experience using an essential oils based product like Wondercide or Vets Best? Seems like a good idea, but figured I'd ask here.


I haven't seen any responses regarding Wondercide or other essential oils. Any one tried them, or have any data on them?


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I've read that eucalyptus oil can be toxic to dogs, and especially cats and birds. I would always check withy vet before using even "natural" products as now you can buy them anywhere and you really are never sure of what your getting.


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## Piper 2020 (Aug 16, 2020)

Johanna said:


> For fleas and ticks I prefer to treat the environment with diatomaceous earth rather than use poisons. I use it when I lived in Florida and Texas. You have to treat the house and the yard. Diatomaceous earth is not a poison, it is made from the shells of extinct sea animals. The stuff gets into the places between the harder "shells" of insects and abrades the "skin" until they bleed out. It is absolutely harmless to mammals. In fact, many horse breeders, owners, and trainers feed it to their horses to kill intestinal parasites. I used to feed it to my horses.
> 
> The one issue with the stuff is to avoid handling it in such a way as to produce a cloud of dust that you or your animals might inhale. It's not good for the lungs.


Also great for killing ants.


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## Julie_Bailey (Mar 21, 2021)

Sadly, I know too many dogs that have had uncontrollable seizures from topicals like Frontline. I also know too many dogs that added up contracting tick borne illnesses, both Lyme and Anaplasmosis, despite using topicals. So as much as I hate the idea of oral meds, I give Nexgard for fleas/ticks and Interceptor Plus for heart worm. I am fortunate enough to live in an area of the country where it’s only warm enough for fleas/ticks/mosquitos to survive for 6-7 months, so we get a reprieve from meds for half the year.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I don’t give any flea, tick medication or heart worm preventative. I used to, many hears ago, but I think in my area at least, they’re mostly a way for vets to make money. I give flea medication when they have fleas (they needed it once or twice in 6 years). I test for heartworm disease and Lyme every two years. I just don’t want to give chemicals to my dogs if it isn’t necessary.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I have used heartgard plus and nexgard for the past 10 years without any incident of health issues. I do live in an area where it is warm to hot and humid and the pests are around all year. So its basically part of their diet. I do not like the topicals as the dogs are always on me. I had a cat that could not handle topicals. I have found that I do not need to use anything on my indoor cats as the dogs no longer seem to bring anything inside the home. (knocking on wood)


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