# Health testing



## julietcr1 (Nov 10, 2012)

I am not a breeder but when I was looking for a standard poodle I looked at this site to know how to find a good breeder Versatility In Poodles. Under "Find a Poodle" you will find a link "Health Tests Recommended by VIP for Standard, Miniature, and Toy Poodles". This is where I found what test I should be asking my breeder about. Breeders Don't always test for everything but I will let breeders explain why they choose to test or not.


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## Lene (Jan 18, 2013)

Darcy said:


> Just wondering what health testing should my standard poodles have before breeding, any advice would be greatly appreciated.


I would ask your breeder... They would know..

I wouldn't just put a male and female together, without knowing their back ground, so again.... your breeder will be your best bet...


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Here are the tests recommended by OFA:

Canine Health Information Center: CHIC Information

I am planning to breed Cammie, and I had her tested for hips (OFA), eyes (CERF), thyroid (full thyroid panel according to OFA specifications), and von Wildebrands disease (DNA test by VetGen). I did not do the Neonatal Encephalitis DNA test because she is clear by parentage and she is being bred to to dog who has been tested for that (pup cannot get the disease unless both parents are carriers). I also spent a lot of time reviewing her pedigree and the pedigree of the stud we will be using on phrdatabase.com and I asked her breeder about any health issues that she might know about.

Question for anyone who might know the answer: Why are the DNA tests for von Wildebrands and Neonatal Encephalitis not included in OFA's recommended tests for breeding dogs? Unlike hip Xrays and eye tests, these DNA tests give 100% certainty that the pups you are breeding will not have these diseases. I would think that at least one dog in any breeding pair should have these tests, and I am surprised that OFA standards don't even mention it. Any comments?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

OFA is the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals, so I suppose it makes sense that they mainly list orthopedic results, although eyes are not exactly orthopedic! A generic health tests database would be extremely useful, though - perhaps they will gradually expand to include other results.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

fjm said:


> OFA is the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals, so I suppose it makes sense that they mainly list orthopedic results, although eyes are not exactly orthopedic! A generic health tests database would be extremely useful, though - perhaps they will gradually expand to include other results.


OFA is definitely interested in more than orthopedic testing. They now have their own eye registry, competing with CERF. Their recommended testing and their CHIC numbers involve more than orthopedic testing. Seems strange that they don't mention the DNA tests in their recommendations.


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## AngelsMommy (Nov 3, 2012)

I think that von Willebrands testing is important as a person with family members with hemophilia! I know personally how painful this kind of thing is.

I lost my dad when I was three to hemophilia and my nephew has it as well. This is why I only have furbabies. I would be horrified to find out I had a furbaby with this. 

Testing is not perfect on all of these issues as yet although the DNA ones on dogs are so far. But if it helps the furbabies that we share our lives with have longer healthier lives, it is worth it.


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## gr8pdls (Jul 13, 2010)

*OFA does post vWD, heart, blood, etc results*



peppersb said:


> Question for anyone who might know the answer: Why are the DNA tests for von Wildebrands and Neonatal Encephalitis not included in OFA's recommended tests for breeding dogs?


OFA does list other types of tests including von Wildebrands, Cardiac, Thyroid and NE. 
Here's an example: Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

I wonder if you filed the paperwork correctly.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

gr8pdls said:


> OFA does list other types of tests including von Wildebrands, Cardiac, Thyroid and NE.
> Here's an example: Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
> 
> I wonder if you filed the paperwork correctly.


Sorry if I wasn't clear. I know that they list the other tests and I have filed the paperwork correctly. In fact, here's Cammie's testing:

Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

The thing that seems strange to me is that they have a list of the tests that are recommended for standard poodles (the tests that you need to get a CHIC number) and the DNA tests for von Willebrand's and Neonatal Encephalitis are not mentioned. The DNA tests are (1) 100% reliable in determining whether the breeding dog can pass the disease on to its offspring and (2) testing for some very important conditions. I don't think poodles should be bred without at least one of a breeding pair being tested for these conditions (or clear by parentage). Not a huge deal, but it just seems strange to me that OFA/CHIC doesn't mention that these are tests that should be done. I am referring to their list of required/suggested tests here:

Canine Health Information Center: CHIC Information

Hip and eye are required plus one of 4 "electives." No mention of vWd or NEwS.


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## gr8pdls (Jul 13, 2010)

*ahh*



peppersb said:


> Sorry if I wasn't clear. I know that they list the other tests and I have filed the paperwork correctly. In fact, here's Cammie's testing:
> 
> Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
> 
> ...


Oh, I got ya, now. I was wondering why that myself. 

My guess is that vWd and NEwS carriers could be clear by parentage and that if a breeder knew that their breeding pair wouldn't be affected, why force someone to test for something that is not needed. 

I'm pretty certain that it is the breed parent club that determines which tests are needed to gain a CHIC number, not OFA.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

That's a good point. Each of the tests that are required are phenotype tests, correct? They test to see if a dog is affected (whether symptomatic or subclinical) with various health issues. 

I know that I personally consider the OFA recommended/CHIC required tests to be the minimum for health testing.


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## AbigailJoy (Apr 1, 2013)

*health testing*

I'm not a poodle breeder but I would recommend testing for Cushings. My poodle just died 4 weeks ago March 6th from Cushings. She only lived 5 months after diagnosis. The doctor said she had up to 2 years but she went quickly. She was only 9 years old. When she first was diagnosed I did a lot of research on Cushings and poodles are always the first breed listed that are prone to the disease. I'm hoping to find a new furry baby that has been genetically tested. I don't know if breeders follow up with their litters and know if any develop Cushings or other genetic diseases.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I do not believe a Cushings test would be helpful. Kind of like breeders who say they test for Addisons. That only tells you if a dog has it...right now. Does not tell you if they might develop it later, if they are likely to produce it. In my opinion, not worth the money.


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## AbigailJoy (Apr 1, 2013)

So it sounds like there isn't anyway to genetically test a breeding pair to make sure they are not carriers?


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

AbigailJoy said:


> So it sounds like there isn't anyway to genetically test a breeding pair to make sure they are not carriers?


Testing to see if a breeding dog is a carrier only works for diseases that are caused by one recessive gene which has been identified. For those autosomal recessive diseases (e.g. von Wildebrands and Neonatal Encephalitis), a breeding dog can be DNA tested and identified as clear, carrier or affected. These diseases can be completely wiped out by responsible breeding.

The problem is that most diseases are quite a bit more complex than that, and many diseases are caused by factors other than inheritance. 

The mode of inheritance of Cushings (too much cortisol) is unknown and it seems to have more than one cause (a tumor is behind many but not all cases of Cushings). Addisons (not enough cortisol) is more common than Cushings in poodles, and recent research indicates that it is caused by multiple genes. In other words, the inheritance of Addison's is quite complex. Testing for it, as Arreau suggested, is not going to give much certainty that that the breeding dog will not produce puppies who eventually get the disease. 

For more information on Cushings in poodles:

Poodle Health Registry Breed/Disease Listing!

Hyperadrenocorticism (Cushing's syndrome) | Canine Inherited Disorders Database | University of Prince Edward Island


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

Cushings I have only seen in dogs 10+ years of age. As a groomer I currently groom 4 dogs with Cushings,1 Poodle, 1 Cocker, 2 Shi- Tzu. None of these dogs are being treated. I had 1 other Shih with Cushings the last one to be diagnosed, 1st to die & the only one being treated for Cushings.


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## knightrider (Sep 13, 2010)

Curious what the costs are for all these tests? Can anyone share ballpark figures? I'm sure it varies between states or vets. A friend of mine does all the testing for her Shiloh Shepherds and she said it ran her around $5000??? is it really that much?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

It's not going to cost $5,000 to fully health test a poodle. Maybe $500, $600, $700 ish. I spent about that much on both of my dogs and did pretty extensive health testing. I did hips, SA, CERF, thyroid, DM, vWD, NE. On one, I also did Cardio.


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## knightrider (Sep 13, 2010)

lol...wonder why she would tell me it costs that much (even with her vet discounts as she is a vet tech)? People are so strange. Maybe I could see it if she thought I was going to be competition for her dogs, but she breeds Shiloh Shepherds and I want to breed poodles. She was also complaining about how much work it was... which I know, I've fostered litters of puppies before.


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## 2719 (Feb 8, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> It's not going to cost $5,000 to fully health test a poodle. Maybe $500, $600, $700 ish. I spent about that much on both of my dogs and did pretty extensive health testing. I did hips, SA, CERF, thyroid, DM, vWD, NE. On one, I also did Cardio.


You must have gotten some real good prices for your testing. I am taking mine to a health clinic next weekend for cardio testing. The only definitive test for Atrial Septal Defect in Standards is Echocardiograph. So the Doppler in tandem with the auscitation is going to cost me $400.00, cerf is $45.00. I already did Vwd which was about $90.00 (again a health clinic rate). I have gotten quotes for hip and elbow for $180.00. So already I am over $700.00 and that is without DM, NE, SA and thyroid. By the time I get that done I will be will be in the mid $1000. range.

I wish I was in the United States because it appears there are many more health clinics available.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

TLP said:


> You must have gotten some real good prices for your testing. I am taking mine to a health clinic next weekend for cardio testing. The only definitive test for Atrial Septal Defect in Standards is Echocardiograph. So the Doppler in tandem with the auscitation is going to cost me $400.00, cerf is $45.00. I already did Vwd which was about $90.00 (again a health clinic rate). I have gotten quotes for hip and elbow for $180.00. So already I am over $700.00 and that is without DM, NE, SA and thyroid. By the time I get that done I will be will be in the mid $1000. range.
> 
> I wish I was in the United States because it appears there are many more health clinics available.


Yes, Americans have no idea the crazy rates we pay here in Canada! We pay $1,000 for hips, elbows, eyes, thyroid, heart, S/A, vWd, NE and DM. Then the cost to post it all on OFFA.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Wow! Thats a lot! I had a cardiac echocardiogram done by a cardiologist at a specialty veterinarian and it was $150. It wasn't a discounted clinic by any means.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I have heard $400-700 for echocardiogram.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> I have heard $400-700 for echocardiogram.


Wow!!!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> Yes, Americans have no idea the crazy rates we pay here in Canada! We pay $1,000 for hips, elbows, eyes, thyroid, heart, S/A, vWd, NE and DM. Then the cost to post it all on OFFA.


Holy cow! Why don't you drive across the border?  Your Canadian dollar exchange is 1.02 canadian : 1.00 US (about the same). 

I paid $85 for hips, $40 for eyes, $60 for thyroid (lab fees), $90 for SA (2 punches), $28 for cardiac (practitioner, not echo), $35 for patella. What is that, about $338 total? vWd, NE and DM were all clear in all four grandparents, so no need to do any of those (no way to get it). After all that we are not breeding Bonnie, but it's nice to know.  Jazz may have to get all that. We did his hips at 5 months, but too young to be on OFA. I went to clinics for everything except the SA from a vet who does loads of them for a discount and the hips at a different vet who specializes in those without sedation. 

I did pay $105 for haplotypes for both dogs (to Canada), which I might see SOME day. I am super curious about Jazz! I suspect he will be 1:something or 1:1, but maybe not. Can't wait to hear. I submitted them in November and have yet to hear a thing!! Anybody know what's going on with those?


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I think most of the vets right across the border are aware of what we pay so set their prices accordingly. We too did the haplotypes and it was $100 a dog, so even that is more expensive and it was PCC that organizedd it.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I think most of the vets right across the border are aware of what we pay so set their prices accordingly. We too did the haplotypes and it was $100 a dog, so even that was more expensive and it was PCC that organized it.


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