# Tear Stain Free Gene Breeders?



## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_I'm not aware of such a gene. I did some searching on the web and didn't find anything about a gene that contribute to tearing in some breeds.

What I did find were reports giving the many reasons why there can be tearing and the dogs and cats most prone to it. I copied the information from one site. I found this on a Havanese site. There were actually several Havanese sites addressing this._

"Also known as Poodle Eye. There are few things more unsightly than rusty tear stains marring the appearance of an otherwise beautifully groomed Havanese. This will of course be most noticeable on white and other light coloured Havanese. Stains are not the only problem, you should take note of tearing and/or eye discharge regardless of the colour of your Havanese. There are a number of reasons for eye discharge and excessive tearing and the unattractive stains that may result. Excessive tearing, blocked tear ducts, acidity or pH of the tears, bacterial or yeast infections, genetics, teething, irritation, allergies, hair in the eyes, environment (smoke & other pollutants) , shampoo and chemicals, diet, food allergy/intolerance are all potential culprits. Camouflaging the stains is a popular option, but in truth, understanding the causes, prevention, and controlling the tear staining are more important than simply covering up. Removing or camouflaging the stains is temporary at best as the stains will reoccur unless the source of the staining is removed. See our Eye Care page in Tid Bits for additional information for preventions on solutions."

_So there are, as I know, many reasons for tearing. If someone is advertising their puppies as basically tear free due to the fact that they don't carry the supposed weak gene, I would be very suspicious of that. 

I have four Standards. One is prone to tearing; the other three are not. One of my creams tears and the other hasn't teared since she went through her teething stage a couple of years ago. 

Good luck on your search for your puppy._


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I agree with Spoospirit - Sophy had problems with tear staining when she was a pup, which were largely down to teething and she grew out of them. As far as I am aware no one has ever identified a genetic link for staining, although genetics may, of course, underly some of the things that cause likelong staining, like narrow tear ducts, entropion, allergies, etc. I would be very dubious of such a claim - the most that could be promised is that the parents and grandparents show no staining, and that - so far - neither have their offspring!


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

Thanks guys, yeah it seemed pretty far fetched. Thanks for the feedback fjm and spoospirit, I think it may have been a mis-translation considering the website is of a breeder who is overseas and had an english version of their normally Taiwanese website.

I only recently learned about weak red color genes because I happened to stumble across it when I was reading an article about poodle colors and I thought I had stumbled across another poodle fact.

I am still looking at toy poodle breeders near me though, if anyone has any positive feedback.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

I am interested in the word "weak" as used to describe the gene causing fading, as I'm not schooled in genetics. Can you say more or provide a link?


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

Streetcar said:


> I am interested in the word "weak" as used to describe the gene causing fading, as I'm not schooled in genetics. Can you say more or provide a link?


Hi Streetcar,

Sorry I have been out of the US and wasn't able to check out the forums. I haven't run into any official scientific articles about color genetics in poodles, but I remember going to this website when I was looking at blue colored poodles which explained how different colors come to be.

Explaining Poodle Colors - Stunningly Sweet Standards

My friend's red toy poodle faded into a cream after about 2 years and as a red owner, I got a little worried. I do know that the "fading gene" is carried by dogs with silver, blue, or white in their lines. I believe apricots also carry the fading gene which is what reds stem from (which would explain the fading).


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Excellent Link!!
Eric


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## Mahlon (Jun 8, 2014)

hollyollyc said:


> Hi Streetcar,
> 
> Sorry I have been out of the US and wasn't able to check out the forums. I haven't run into any official scientific articles about color genetics in poodles, but I remember going to this website when I was looking at blue colored poodles which explained how different colors come to be.
> 
> ...


Just a warning for that link, its not a bad general outline, but it definitely has some serious mistakes in the descriptions so take it all with a grain of salt. For instance it states silver-beige can have a black nose, which is just not true, all Silver-beige have liver noses as it is the brown version of silver.

Hope that helps,
Dan


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

From my understanding, talking with my vet, tear stains happen mostly on toy breeds because of anatomy. They're small. Their tear ducts are small and often can't drain away the tears quickly enough and sometimes they get plugged up and backed up. So the over flow comes down on their face. As it sits there, dampness is a friendly environment for certain organisms. Bacteria congregates there and causes the discoloration. There is nothing about genetics that I've ever seen that makes any sense, as in breeders such as you mention. It's an anatomical thing from the start. Small dogs tend to have small tear ducts. And once in a while a larger dog will come with smallish tear ducts I guess.


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> From my understanding, talking with my vet, tear stains happen mostly on toy breeds because of anatomy. They're small. Their tear ducts are small and often can't drain away the tears quickly enough and sometimes they get plugged up and backed up. So the over flow comes down on their face. As it sits there, dampness is a friendly environment for certain organisms. Bacteria congregates there and causes the discoloration. There is nothing about genetics that I've ever seen that makes any sense, as in breeders such as you mention. It's an anatomical thing from the start. Small dogs tend to have small tear ducts. And once in a while a larger dog will come with smallish tear ducts I guess.


Very true and factual. I believe the color that you see is because of red yeast. My vet hasn't said anything about Jelena's tear stains (I wipe them with distilled water on a cotton ball every night to maintain it at a safe level.), but I heard people have their dog's tear ducts flushed out. Has anyone noticed a major difference from doing so? I would assume when you see a big increase in staining that you would consider it as an option?


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Thank you for that link, Hollyollyc! I am going to learn a lot there. So glad I checked this thread again.


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