# Breeder questions (from TX)



## pieces of arzt (Jul 30, 2011)

Hi all. As I stated in my intro post, I am interested in standard poodles. I wasn't really sure if this post should go in this forum or the other breeding forum, so hopefully if it's in the wrong spot an administrator can move it.

How do you know if a breeder is reputable and trustworthy? It has been several years since I purchased a dog from a breeder. I have already looked through several websites of breeders in Texas, but I'm not really sure what I should be looking for, and I'm not really sure what to ask when I email or call. Some websites talk about screening for various health conditions, genetic testing, and so on, but I don't really know much about any of those things.

So what should I be looking for? What testing/shots/screenings/etc should a good breeder provide? I'm also not really sure what is appropriate to ask about their interaction with the dogs. For example, is it normal to inquire about housebreaking (if they at least start to potty train, take the puppies outside, etc)? 

Also, are there any specific poodle things I should be looking for? I don't know much about what a standard poodle is "supposed" to look like, nor is that of the utmost importance since this will just be a family pet.

Thanks for any tips and info you can provide!


----------



## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Hopefully this would help answering some of your questions: Versatility In Poodles - Find A Poodle


----------



## ToyPoodle46 (Oct 10, 2010)

pieces of arzt said:


> Hi all. As I stated in my intro post, I am interested in standard poodles. I wasn't really sure if this post should go in this forum or the other breeding forum, so hopefully if it's in the wrong spot an administrator can move it.
> 
> How do you know if a breeder is reputable and trustworthy? It has been several years since I purchased a dog from a breeder. I have already looked through several websites of breeders in Texas, but I'm not really sure what I should be looking for, and I'm not really sure what to ask when I email or call. Some websites talk about screening for various health conditions, genetic testing, and so on, but I don't really know much about any of those things.
> 
> ...


The best breeders that there will ever be can be found in these two websites. I really do recommend you reading a book about your breed. The very important thing that you will need from a breeder is the PRA papers of the dog. 

http://www.poodleclubofamerica.org/find
"Poodle Breeders" Standard Poodles, Miniature Poodles, Toy Poodles Breeders Directory!


----------



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

ToyPoodle46 said:


> The best breeders that there will ever be can be found in these two websites. I really do recommend you reading a book about your breed. The very important thing that you will need from a breeder is the PRA papers of the dog.
> 
> http://www.poodleclubofamerica.org/find
> "Poodle Breeders" Standard Poodles, Miniature Poodles, Toy Poodles Breeders Directory!


Sorry to disagree, but I do. Poodlesonline is good in that they only allow breeders who can confirm testing to advertise, but so does poodlebreeders.com Not everyone who is a member of a club is ethical. And not every breeder who tests advertises. Do your homework. Lots of good breeders do no advertising at all. The VIP site gives good advice.


----------



## ToyPoodle46 (Oct 10, 2010)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> Sorry to disagree, but I do. Poodlesonline is good in that they only allow breeders who can confirm testing to advertise, but so does poodlebreeders.com Not everyone who is a member of a club is ethical. And not every breeder who tests advertises. Do your homework. Lots of good breeders do no advertising at all. The VIP site gives good advice.


Oh really, i didnt know that about poodlesonline. Anyways, just use poodleclubofamerica and contact the affiliate members for a list of breeders in your area. Good luck!


----------



## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

ToyPoodle46 said:


> The best breeders that there will ever be can be found in these two websites. I really do recommend you reading a book about your breed. The very important thing that you will need from a breeder is the PRA papers of the dog.
> 
> http://www.poodleclubofamerica.org/find
> "Poodle Breeders" Standard Poodles, Miniature Poodles, Toy Poodles Breeders Directory!


These are good starting points but there are plenty of good breeders that are not listed there.


----------



## pieces of arzt (Jul 30, 2011)

ToyPoodle46 said:


> The best breeders that there will ever be can be found in these two websites. I really do recommend you reading a book about your breed. The very important thing that you will need from a breeder is the PRA papers of the dog.
> 
> http://www.poodleclubofamerica.org/find
> "Poodle Breeders" Standard Poodles, Miniature Poodles, Toy Poodles Breeders Directory!


Thanks. Any books you recommend? Also, sorry if this is a dumb question, but what are PRA papers?


----------



## ToyPoodle46 (Oct 10, 2010)

pieces of arzt said:


> Thanks. Any books you recommend? Also, sorry if this is a dumb question, but what are PRA papers?


Your welcome. I personally recommend a book that I bought from amazon.com Check it out: Amazon.com: Poodles (Complete Pet Owner's Manual) (9780764136665): Joe Stahlkuppe: Books

I contacted Caroline Hair (shes an affiliate of poodleclubofamerica in NC) and she answered it best:

We recommend than pet buyers buy a puppy only
from a litter whose parents have had the DNA test for the gene for
Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA), a form of genetic blindness that
develops between the ages of three and seven years. It is possible for
two normal parents to each carry a single recessive gene, and if bred to
each other some of the puppies will inherit a defective gene from each
parent and will then become blind at a young age. PRA has been a problem
in a number of breeds for fifty years, but the new DNA test will
identify carriers, and if used prior to breeding can prevent the
accidental breeding of two carriers. No line is clear of this problem. This
is not the AKC DNA profile,
which is for identification of dogs and offspring, but will say "Optigen
Laboratory" and clearly state the dog's prcd-PRA status as clear, carrier
or affected.

We also recommend that you inquire if the parents have had their
patellas (kneecaps) certified by Orthopedic Foundation for Animals, as
patella problems are not uncommon in all toy breeds, and can cause
painful lameness which requires surgery to correct. We recommend
requesting copies of the test reports on both parents before making a
commitment to buy a puppy. Responsible breeders are happy to supply
these. It is also wise to request that the sale not be final until the
puppy's patellas have been checked and approved by a veterinarian of
your choice, preferably within forty-eight hours of purchase. More
information on this and other health issues can be found at
Welcome to PCA! .

When choosing a breeder, you also want to visit to see how the dogs are
kept, their temperaments, and how the puppies are raised. The place should
be clean with no odor. All the dogs, including puppies over six weeks old
should be clean and groomed and you should be allowed to meet the dogs, with
the exception of a bitch nursing a new litter. Puppies should be kept in the
house with constant contact with people, and be given daily periods of
individual
socialization from four weeks of age. It is not a good idea to purchase a
puppy from a person selling at a flea market or from a pet shop, as these
puppies may have changed hands several times, and the buyer has no way to
tell how they were raised or under what conditions. Responsible breeders
sell only directly to people they have met and are sure can give the puppy a
suitable home.

Please understand that responsible breeders plan and space litters
carefully so they are able to give every puppy individual attention.
Only puppy mills have puppies all, or even most, of the time. Toy litters
are usually small with three being a very large litter, so be patient, and
be willing to be put on waiting lists for a puppy.

Hope this helps!


----------



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

ToyPoodle46 said:


> Your welcome. I personally recommend a book that I bought from amazon.com Check it out: Amazon.com: Poodles (Complete Pet Owner's Manual) (9780764136665): Joe Stahlkuppe: Books
> 
> I contacted Caroline Hair (shes an affiliate of poodleclubofamerica in NC) and she answered it best:
> 
> ...


You are searching for a Standard, correct? Standards are not required to be tested for PRA because it is not an issue in this variety. Standards are CERFed. Any breeder you are looking into should provide you with documentation of all testing that has been done. Don't take their word for it. Ask to see documentation or have them tell you how to use the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals web site to look it up if posted there.

A wonderful book is The Complete Poodle.


----------



## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

You should be able to find out the tests that should be done for each Poodle variety at the VIP link I posted earlier. You can also see explanations on what those diseases are and why those tests are important.


----------



## ToyPoodle46 (Oct 10, 2010)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> You are searching for a Standard, correct? Standards are not required to be tested for PRA because it is not an issue in this variety. Standards are CERFed. Any breeder you are looking into should provide you with documentation of all testing that has been done. Don't take their word for it. Ask to see documentation or have them tell you how to use the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals web site to look it up if posted there.
> 
> A wonderful book is The Complete Poodle.


That question isnt for me is it? Probably not. Anyways, i never knew standards weren't required to do PRA testing...


----------



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

schnauzerpoodle said:


> You should be able to find out the tests that should be done for each Poodle variety at the VIP link I posted earlier. You can also see explanations on what those diseases are and why those tests are important.


The question was for the OP. I was pretty sure she was looking for a Standard and PRA is not an issue in Standards.

If you search around on the OFFA site, they also tell you variety specific tests which should be done on breeding dogs, and they break it down and explain how one acquires a CHIC number.


----------



## pieces of arzt (Jul 30, 2011)

schnauzerpoodle said:


> You should be able to find out the tests that should be done for each Poodle variety at the VIP link I posted earlier. You can also see explanations on what those diseases are and why those tests are important.


On the VIP website it states:

In order to obtain a Canine Health Information Center (CHIC) number, the Standard Poodle must have completed testing and be registered with the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) in the following areas: 
• Hip Dysplasia evaluation from an approved agency 
• Eye clearance by the Canine Eye Registry Foundation (CERF)

One of the three following tests:
• Autoimmune Thyroiditis (primary hypothyroidism) evaluation from an approved agency 
• Sebaceous Adenitis evaluation
• OFA cardiac evaluation

Just curious, anyone know why only one of those last three is needed? Those are three entirely different issues. 

Also, when looking for a poodle puppy, should I inquire about the CHIC or OFA numbers to look up the testing of both puppy and parents, or just puppy?


----------



## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

Check out your local affiliate clubs - Bluebonnet Poodle Club is in Houston, Lone Star in Dallas and San Antonio has a club as well, I think. (PCA website will also have the info on the affliate clubs if you have trouble finding site/members through googling.)

Breeder referral out of PCA or an affiate club is going to focus on breeders who not only test their breeding adults but who are also active in the breed - whether they are showing, working rescue, working in agility/obedience or in the field - even those breeders who no longer actively participate with their dogs- yet they give their time working in education and legislation. 

They (PCA breeder referral) does not refer to breeders who are breeding untested and unproven animals (read that as breeding for the sake of producing puppies for "a dollah" and not giving back to the breed). 

Good Luck!

Tabatha
NOLA Standards


PS In reference to your CHIC and OFA question. CHIC is basically a collection of the OFA testing. Parents will have it or OFA testing. You can locate it on the main page with the animal's registered name or the OFA number.

The breeding parents will have the testing. A pup won't. You might find, depending on how deeply you are researching, siblings with testing as well.


----------

