# Dog Insurance?



## murieics (May 10, 2009)

Do you have insurance on your dog? If so, through what company? What has your experience been like with that company so far- how do they handle your claims? Do you have to pay the bill up front, and then get reimbursed, or do you just pay a copay on your vet visits?

I've been looking into getting insurance for the new puppy, and was hoping there would be people with experience with dog insurance on here, who could enlighten me some more. 

Also, if you do or don't have insurance- why or why not?


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

We did not get insurance b/c a friend, who had previously had it, recommended we did not. She said in her experience having a pure bred dog, just about anything that went wrong the insurance company said was inherent to the breed therefore they wouldn't cover it. So, to me, she said she'd only get it again if she had a complete "mutt." At one point she and her husband joked that if her dog had gotten out and got hit by a car they'd likely said that sneaking out was inherent to her breed. So we opted not to get insurance at this time.

So, I would say see if you can find insurance that doesn't exclude breed-specific issues. 

Anyone else?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I have always been insured with PetPlan in the UK, and have found them excellent - I have made a number of claims and the have been helpful, sympathetic, and paid promptly and in full. The cost is now astronomical, though - well over £1,000 a year for the 4 animals, with a high excess, so I have decided to set aside a lump of capital instead. With only one dog, I think it is worth it, especially for the first few years. Look for one that does not limit lifetine cover, and is sensible about breed-specific issues (I have had no problems insuring papillons and poodles - bulldogs etc may be different).


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Bella's Momma said:


> We did not get insurance b/c a friend, who had previously had it, recommended we did not. She said in her experience having a pure bred dog, just about anything that went wrong the insurance company said was inherent to the breed therefore they wouldn't cover it. So, to me, she said she'd only get it again if she had a complete "mutt." At one point she and her husband joked that if her dog had gotten out and got hit by a car they'd likely said that sneaking out was inherent to her breed. So we opted not to get insurance at this time.
> 
> So, I would say see if you can find insurance that doesn't exclude breed-specific issues.
> 
> Anyone else?


That was the case when I had VPI on my schnauzer. Now, after extended research, I have Nickel with Petplan and it's GREAT. It covers hereditary conditions too. I have to pay up front and get reimbursed but they process the claims really fast. I got Nickel on the plan a week before he came to our home so there's really no "pre-existing condition" so basically everything's covered except for regular checkups and shots, dental cleaning, neutering. They cover holistic treatments and emergency too.

I like it so far. I would recommend it to my fellow pet owners.


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## Karma'sACat (Jun 1, 2010)

I definitely recommend insurance however, your experience depends on the company and plan you choose. Choose a bad company or crappy plan and it won't cover much. Choose a good company and a good plan, you'll be covered.
This website and this one are great places to start your research. Look at different companies, get quotes from them and then decide.
I'm deciding between Pet Plan and Embrace. Just waiting to hear back about a couple discounts.


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

schnauzerpoodle said:


> That was the case when I had VPI on my schnauzer. Now, after extended research, I have Nickel with Petplan and it's GREAT. It covers hereditary conditions too. I have to pay up front and get reimbursed but they process the claims really fast. I got Nickel on the plan a week before he came to our home so there's really no "pre-existing condition" so basically everything's covered except for regular checkups and shots, dental cleaning, neutering. They cover holistic treatments and emergency too.
> 
> I like it so far. I would recommend it to my fellow pet owners.


may i ask how much you pay for it?


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

i was looking into Embrace, but i'm afraid nearly $400 per year is a bit too much for me.

how are Petplan's cost structures?


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

fracturedcircle said:


> may i ask how much you pay for it?


I'm paying about $420 per year (bronze plan, $100 deductible and 0% coinsurance). 

https://www.gopetplan.com/Dog-Insurance-Policies/Compare-Pet-Policies.html


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## Lilith (Sep 29, 2010)

Thanks for starting this thread. I was just searching around a bit on dog insurance myself - great tips and great timing!

Unrelated - Schnauzerpoodle I adore that pic of Nickel with the light behind him... just gorgeous!


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

schnauzerpoodle said:


> I'm paying about $420 per year (bronze plan, $100 deductible and 0% coinsurance).
> 
> https://www.gopetplan.com/Dog-Insurance-Policies/Compare-Pet-Policies.html


what made you choose Petplan as opposed to Embrace?


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

fracturedcircle said:


> what made you choose Petplan as opposed to Embrace?



I chose Petplan instead of Embrace because of the following reasons:

1. Higher premium: 
I don't have the quote from Embrace anymore but I believe it's almost $100 higher than Petplan)

2. Pre-existing conditions policy http://www.embracepetinsurance.com/coverage/pre-ex-conditions.aspx: 
If your cat or dog has had any of the following prior to enrolling in an Embrace plan:

Respiratory infections
Urinary tract infections
Vomiting and/or diarrhea
Bladder infections
Other curable conditions

Vomiting and/or diarrhea??????????? Seriously??? If my dog has one incident of diarrhea, any recurrence will be excluded for 12 months from the date of the last episode??? I don't think that's reasonable.

Allergies is considered to be "incurable" and will be forever excluded from coverage by Embrace. Petplan considers those related episodes as "continuation of a previous claim". I can go for multiple visits for the same problem and don't have to worry about the deductible. I think vomiting/diarrhea/allergies are the most common problems of any animals and based on this reasoning, I didn't choose Embrace.

3. Annual and lifetime maximums:

Embrace allows you to customized your policy to have an annual maximum to be somewhere between $2,000 and $15,000. The annual maximum of the Petplan (bronze) Nickel is on has an annual max of $8000. BUT, there's no lifetime maximum for Petplan while there is a $50,000 lifetime maximum at Embrace. Poodles can easily live up to 15 years so that gives an average of $3333/year. I don't like the idea of having a cap like that. What if Nickel has some serious, long-term disease later on in his life? I don't want to keep worrying that we would soon reach that cap.

4. The premium of Petplan does not increase according to the pet's age and the numbers of claims that have been filed. It goes with the average vet fees charge at the area that you and your pet are residing.


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## rubymom (Apr 24, 2010)

I am definitely purchasing either Embrace or PetPlan, seems like you bring up more positives with Pet Plan!


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## cdensmore (Jul 13, 2010)

I have both of mine on the accident/illness plan with the AKC. Nora ate a rock when she was four months old, and had to have emergency surgery, to the tune of $1800 (they threw in the spay at the same time for free!!). So, I got the insurance only to cover big stuff in future. Thankfully haven't used it yet, but they both run less than $20 per month per dog. I think I have to pay up front and get reimbursed.


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Lilith said:


> Unrelated - Schnauzerpoodle I adore that pic of Nickel with the light behind him... just gorgeous!



Thanks! I really should take more pictures of Nickel. He's growing so fast!


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

schnauzerpoodle said:


> I chose Petplan instead of Embrace because of the following reasons:
> 
> 1. Higher premium:
> I don't have the quote from Embrace anymore but I believe it's almost $100 higher than Petplan)
> ...


what a helpful response!

yes, i also thought Embrace was pricier. great points about vomiting and diarrhea--Llama definitely had both...


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## flufflvr (Mar 20, 2010)

allmutt said:


> I personally try to self insure (at least take highest available deductible) or self warrant and find I save a lot of money. In effect, I am betting on the most likely scenario or best case scenario will occur, not on the worst case scenario.
> 
> Check my math on this. If you had the plan that is $420 per year plus $100 and a Poodle that lives 16 years the total cost would be $6720. Is it very likely that your vet bills will exceed that amount? If not, put that money in the bank. It also may limit what the vet recommends, it does limit my dentist.


Doesn't help much though if the 2nd month you have a dog something happens and costs a thousand or more. Optimally, this would be perfect if nothing happened until you'd built up a good amount of money in the bank, but who could guarantee that? I couldn't take the chance and went through Petcare. I had both dogs insured before I even brought them home. I got Cosita 8 years ago and there weren't many options back then. I can't switch now because everything they've had would be considered pre existing. My next dog will be insured with Petplan though. I've heard great things about them on several forums. The other thing is that I don't want my vet to feel restricted because of my lack of funds. I know when I was trying to get a diagnosis for Liberty's Addison's it was like pulling teeth to get the vet to do the tests I wanted done (acth stimulation). Finally we went to another vet, and I told him she had health insurance, and I didn't care how much it cost, I just wanted some answers. He ran tests that the other vet thought were superfluous, and found her Addison's.


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

schnauzerpoodle: did you get Petplan online or via phone?


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

fracturedcircle said:


> schnauzerpoodle: did you get Petplan online or via phone?


I did it online. It's super easy. If I refer you, they give me a $25 AMEX gift card which I can just mail back to you. [Of course, only if you want to take advantage of that.]


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## Lilith (Sep 29, 2010)

Shoot, the petplan website won't accept my zipcode. Usually I can slide by because even though the zip refers to the federal government diplomatic pouch facility, the zipcode is still in Virginia. Seems like Petplan is one of the savvy companies that has done their homework and realized that anyone living in my zipcode actually doesn't live in the United States at all.

I'm betting that I'm going to end up on that self-insured plan rather I like it or now... 

:disapointed:


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

schnauzerpoodle said:


> I did it online. It's super easy. If I refer you, they give me a $25 AMEX gift card which I can just mail back to you. [Of course, only if you want to take advantage of that.]


sure, please refer me! PM me and i'll tell you my name and all.


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Lilith said:


> Shoot, the petplan website won't accept my zipcode. Usually I can slide by because even though the zip refers to the federal government diplomatic pouch facility, the zipcode is still in Virginia. Seems like Petplan is one of the savvy companies that has done their homework and realized that anyone living in my zipcode actually doesn't live in the United States at all.
> 
> I'm betting that I'm going to end up on that self-insured plan rather I like it or now...
> 
> :disapointed:


well, if you are not currently living in the states, then you might want to check out VPI. I had VPI for my late schnauzer and they accepted claims worldwide, as long as the vet is a licensed one. I'm not sure if that's still true but it was like that 10 years ago.


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

do people think it's better to have a higher deductible?


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

I think it really depends on your dog but I can share with you some numbers here. For Nickel: $100 deductible and 0% copay; premium ~$420

From May to now, I have faxed in 5 forms (2 for eye infections and considered to be 1 incident; 2 for ear infections again 1 incident; 1 for infection at the incision from neutering) and have received checks totaling the amount of about $370.

I remember my schnauzer almost made no claims when he was 2 to 5 yrs old, so I guess when Nickel gets 2 years old, I will have higher deductible for him and save on premium, at least for a few years. Before he hits middle age, I will make another adjustment. Of course, everything depends on how his health condition and medical needs go.


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## murieics (May 10, 2009)

schnauzerpoodle said:


> I think it really depends on your dog but I can share with you some numbers here. For Nickel: $100 deductible and 0% copay; premium ~$420
> 
> From May to now, I have faxed in 5 forms (2 for eye infections and considered to be 1 incident; 2 for ear infections again 1 incident; 1 for infection at the incision from neutering) and have received checks totaling the amount of about $370.
> 
> I remember my schnauzer almost made no claims when he was 2 to 5 yrs old, so I guess when Nickel gets 2 years old, I will have higher deductible for him and save on premium, at least for a few years. Before he hits middle age, I will make another adjustment. Of course, everything depends on how his health condition and medical needs go.


I never thought of doing something like this- that's a good idea!



fracturedcircle said:


> do people think it's better to have a higher deductible?


So far, from what I've looked at, I would say not really, but I guess it depends on how you look at it. 

When looking at pet plan, at the gold policy ($20,000/year coverage) A plan with a $50 deductible that reimburses 100% is $46.19/month. A plan with a $100 deductible that reimburses 100% is $35.96/month. A plan with a $200 deductible that reimburses 100% is $25.74/month. So out of those three options, I feel like the middle plan is the best value.

The reason I say that is that the difference between a $50 deductible plan and a $100 deductible plan is $10.23/month. The difference between a $100 deductible plan and a $200 deductible plan is $10.22/month. I feel like the savings between $50 and $100 makes it worth it. But when you jump up to a $200 deductible, you still only save $10.22 a month.

That being said, if you put the money that you are saving on your premiums every month into a savings account, it probably wouldn't really matter that you had a $200 deductible vs. a $50 deductible, as you would be putting $20/month into a savings account, and could cover the difference pretty quickly. But if your dog has several separate issues crop up over a year that are relatively minor (this has always seemed to be the case with my dogs so far- very few major incidents, but the occasional ear infection,etc), the higher deductible will mean that you won't really actually see much savings from your plan, so it would be more for emergencies. 

A big part of the reason I was curious about insurance is that I know someone who has had a whole bunch of issues with their dog. He's a doberman, and he got away from them one day on a walk, and got hit by a car. He didn't have any major injuries, mainly just bruises, but they spent quite a bit of money having X rays and other diagnostic tests run on him just to make sure he was ok. Then, about three months after that, his back went out (I can't remember what it's called right now, but basically one of the disks around his spine filled up with extra fluid, putting pressure on his spinal cord- he's pretty much completely paralyzed, but still has feeling). He spent a week in ICU at our local vet school hospital. They've done hydrotherapy. They've tried everything they can think of. He can't use the bathroom by himself, so they have to catheterize him three times a day. That requires equipment and medicine (to the tune of basically something like $9/catheterization). The vet told them it wasn't something they could fix with surgery. They are going to have to make a decision on what to do for him pretty soon (he still isn't better- this has been going on for almost three months now)- which is really sad, because he isn't an old dog (but he isn't getting any better- and there really isn't any quality of life for a parapalegic dog). At this point, they've spent probably almost $15,000 on him- trying to get him better. He doesn't have insurance.

So when I think about dog insurance, it's always with something like that in mind. Granted, I don't think I would keep my dog alive for three months if he was completely paralyzed- it seems cruel to me, as the dog has no idea what is going on. But if there was a situation where there was some sort of technology that would help my puppy get better easily- I wouldn't want money to be an issue.


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## Lilith (Sep 29, 2010)

schnauzerpoodle said:


> well, if you are not currently living in the states, then you might want to check out VPI. I had VPI for my late schnauzer and they accepted claims worldwide, as long as the vet is a licensed one. I'm not sure if that's still true but it was like that 10 years ago.


Thanks, I'll check them out.


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Yeah, I don't think I would keep a dog for 3 mths if he's completely paralyzed but at the same time I understand it's a very very difficult decision to make. But I guess the doberman case is the worst scenerio and you really shouldn't make your decision based on that one story.

How old is your poodle? I'm wondering why you would need the Gold plan for him?


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## murieics (May 10, 2009)

schnauzerpoodle said:


> Yeah, I don't think I would keep a dog for 3 mths if he's completely paralyzed but at the same time I understand it's a very very difficult decision to make. But I guess the doberman case is the worst scenerio and you really shouldn't make your decision based on that one story.
> 
> How old is your poodle? I'm wondering why you would need the Gold plan for him?


I know the doberman is a worst-case scenario. But I guess in a way I feel like that's almost what I am protecting against with insurance. If I knew that the puppy would never have any major issues, I wouldn't even consider insurance. It would be cheaper to just pay for the minor issues (ear infections, etc) out of pocket. 

Jake is 11 weeks old. In deciding between Gold vs. Silver, it makes more sense to go with the Gold to me, because the difference in policies is only a few dollars a month. Again, I guess I am looking at it from a worst-case scenario point of view. If I can have $20,000/year in coverage for $35.96/month and its $32.48/month for $12,000/year in coverage, then I might as well spend the extra $3.48/month for an additional $8,000/year in coverage. It just makes sense to me to have almost double the coverage for so little extra (is that rational? Probably not... :lol.


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

murieics said:


> I know the doberman is a worst-case scenario. But I guess in a way I feel like that's almost what I am protecting against with insurance. If I knew that the puppy would never have any major issues, I wouldn't even consider insurance. It would be cheaper to just pay for the minor issues (ear infections, etc) out of pocket.
> 
> Jake is 11 weeks old. In deciding between Gold vs. Silver, it makes more sense to go with the Gold to me, because the difference in policies is only a few dollars a month. Again, I guess I am looking at it from a worst-case scenario point of view. If I can have $20,000/year in coverage for $35.96/month and its $32.48/month for $12,000/year in coverage, then I might as well spend the extra $3.48/month for an additional $8,000/year in coverage. It just makes sense to me to have almost double the coverage for so little extra (is that rational? Probably not... :lol.


Right, Jake is the 11-wk-old silver boy that just came home! He's my boy's half brother (You have probably read that from your Jake's introduction thread).

For me I don't think my boy would need the $20000 coverage at this age (Nickel just turned 8 months) but the compensation on death due to illness/injury may not be a bad idea [I would never ever want to get that $1000 but ... ]

Don't know how useful this piece of info from their policy documents is for your decision-making process: You can downgrade the plan thing as many times as you want to but you can only upgrade ONCE per year.


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## rubymom (Apr 24, 2010)

With everything being weighed, pros and cons for our situation, I purchased the Bronze Plan for Ruby, w/100.00 deductible and 0.00 copay.
I took her to the vet today to document her good health!
I guess we are set now!
Best case scenerio, I'll never have to use it! 
But, just in case, having some financial backup sure gives me peace of mind!


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

rubymom said:


> With everything being weighed, pros and cons for our situation, I purchased the Bronze Plan for Ruby, w/100.00 deductible and 0.00 copay.
> I took her to the vet today to document her good health!
> I guess we are set now!
> Best case scenerio, I'll never have to use it!
> But, just in case, having some financial backup sure gives me peace of mind!


Yeah, that's what I got for Nickel for now. I'll probably make some adjustment as he gets older.


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

i got Petplan. :act-up:


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## CurlyDog (Aug 20, 2008)

Up until our experience with Max, I always said it wasn't worth it. I did my research when we got him, crunched the numbers and came to the conclusion that it was good if you didn't have an emergency fund and weren't able to take a big hit to your budget. I thought I could handle anything that came up and in my mind a "big hit" would be a $3000 surgery. Well I was WRONG. So much has changed and vets have so much to offer. It's awful to be in the position of deciding which test or procedure to authorize when you know in your gut it isn't going to help but you want them to try everything. 

The other thing is these things don't come in neat little packages with the vet saying, "I think your dog has xxx and it will cost $$$ to fix this problem. For us it was two sleepless nights with endless swipes of the credit card. I realized that if he had survived our costs including post op care were easily going to get in the five digits. 

I have a new opinion now and bought a plan for our little Raleigh. Our vet recommended PetPlan based on customer experience. I have yet to use it but it seems that it doesn't have a bunch of exclusions.


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