# Anything about this breeder?



## Reesmom (Feb 4, 2010)

BTW She is the cheapest I have found @ 1500. I thought her website was knowledgeable and educational. Everyone looks to make something off a litter. I thought her price was extremely fair.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

I don't know this breeder, but just my two cents: I always think it's weird when a breeder says "This is not a puppy mill" on their website. The reputable breeders who I know (and who friends know) don't need to put that on their website, why would you ever need to say that? 

I also think it's weird to see this on a breeder's website: 

"I have been inspected, and have met their strict guidelines in order to register my poodles with AKC."

As far as I am aware, you don't need any special clearance from AKC. Anyone can register a litter, and just because your dogs are AKC registered doesn't mean they are healthy, sound, good examples of the breed. 

Of course, it's just wording on a website... I don't know why she decided to put these things on her site. Are her dogs health tested? It looks like she shows her dogs?

What did your trusted source say about her?


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Also, from reading her site, it looks like she carefully plans her breedings and does health testing...


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

I talked with her a bit through email last year, she was very nice but I am thinking that someone brought this up a bit ago and was unable to find much on her Dam's pedigree..... Does she have white?


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

I do not know anything about this breeder, either - but I didn't get the "warm fuzzies" from her website - Nothing glaring, just not impressed... Hope you get some better answers, and good luck in your search!


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## Cdnjennga (Jul 30, 2009)

Paddle makes good points. I took a quick look at the website. I'd be asking about health testing. The stud of her most recent litter has hips only listed on OFA, while the dam has nothing (although her website does say they've been rated). Ask what other testing she does, as doing hips only is pretty minimal. Of course she may have done the testing and have not listed it, but you definitely need to ask.


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## Reesmom (Feb 4, 2010)

Olie said:


> I talked with her a bit through email last year, she was very nice but I am thinking that someone brought this up a bit ago and was unable to find much on her Dam's pedigree..... Does she have white?


No, I'm looking for white or silver. I stumbled upon her a few weeks ago. She is close. She told me the dam was tall and elegant. I'm wondering how tall? I've asked her for full body pictures of her. I thought it strange that he is all over her website, but just the one face pic of her.


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## Reesmom (Feb 4, 2010)

PaddleAddict said:


> I don't know this breeder, but just my two cents: I always think it's weird when a breeder says "This is not a puppy mill" on their website. The reputable breeders who I know (and who friends know) don't need to put that on their website, why would you ever need to say that?
> 
> I also think it's weird to see this on a breeder's website:
> 
> ...


Only that she was a bred for money.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Reesmom said:


> No, I'm looking for white or silver. I stumbled upon her a few weeks ago. She is close. She told me the dam was tall and elegant. I'm wondering how tall? I've asked her for full body pictures of her. I thought it strange that he is all over her website, but just the one face pic of her.


I have heard she has gorgious silvers. There are people on here that are more familiar


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

Well if she close and your first impression was that you like her go and meet her see for yourself.. Youmay have been told that becuase perhaps the person you were speaking with has a personal problem with this breeder...???? Breeding for money is pretty tough to do if you are doing thisng right That is testing and showing and feeding a proper nutritious diet..
We have people just come quite often to meet our dogs and us .. WE have the greatest puppy folks that fly in to pick up their babies , I would not have it any other way .. If she has an open door policy use it ...


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

PaddleAddict said:


> I don't know this breeder, but just my two cents: I always think it's weird when a breeder says "This is not a puppy mill" on their website. The reputable breeders who I know (and who friends know) don't need to put that on their website, why would you ever need to say that?
> 
> I also think it's weird to see this on a breeder's website:
> 
> ...


I agree... I don't know any reputable breeders that post that stuff on their websites. They don't have to.... cause people know what their reputation is.

Yes, the AKC does do inspections:http://www.akc.org/about/depts/investigations.cfm 

But looking at their standards I'm wondering how many puppymills pass inspection?


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

"Breeding for money" is a pretty broad and unprovable statement. Unless they have her financial records. If she were cutting corners to increase profit, then that's a different story. And it seems like there would be evidence, like incomplete testing.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

I copied this from the AKC inspection site:

•AKC inspects breeders who register seven or more litters per year. AKC also randomly selects some breeders who register between four and six litters a year for inspection. 
•In addition, AKC inspects breeders based on written, signed and substantiated complaints.

So AKC generally inspects people who breed a lot of litters or ones who have complaints registered against them... I don't think I'd be proud of being inspected by AKC... IMHO...


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

plumcrazy said:


> I copied this from the AKC inspection site:
> 
> •AKC inspects breeders who register seven or more litters per year. AKC also randomly selects some breeders who register between four and six litters a year for inspection.
> •In addition, AKC inspects breeders based on written, signed and substantiated complaints.
> ...


Nope... these are the breeders you want to stay away from IMO. The thing with byb's and puppy millers is they'll make themselves sound very professional and good by using terms regular average joes don't understand... "we are inspected by the AKC" and people think WOW! They must be great breeders. 
More puppy mill lingo include:
"we are against puppy mills"
"USDA inspected facility"
"Comes with health guarantee"
"delivery to any location"
"AKC registered"
" have kennel license"


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

plumcrazy said:


> I copied this from the AKC inspection site:
> 
> •AKC inspects breeders who register seven or more litters per year. AKC also randomly selects some breeders who register between four and six litters a year for inspection.
> •In addition, AKC inspects breeders based on written, signed and substantiated complaints.
> ...


Very interesting... in reality, I wonder how many breeders the AKC "inspects" in the course of a year?


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

I'm wondering too why more people are now driving their puppies to new homes rather than putting them on a plane if the buyer lives out of state? I understand the desire to see the home in question but you can do some basic research to find out where the person lives and see the home from a satellite view if you want. I like the assurance that a dog has to be checked over and approved by a liscensed vet before boarding a plane to fly. Not to mention that it's cheaper in most cases to pay for a plane ride than it is to pay for a trip across country by vehicle. On top of it all it's a lot less stressful for a puppy to go on a trip that is maybe 5 hours verses one that is over 12 hours by car.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

Hopefully some one that is not doing things the right way . Such as someone saying that a certian dog is the stud when in fact it was not. Or someone saying the dog is AKC registered and refusing to provide papers at time of pickup...
They do inspections,,, I know this for a fact. A high volume breeder in Phoenix is reguarlly inspected by AKC...


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

And on another topic, how do you ever really know who a stud is if the puppy is not DNA tested? I've heard stories of people selling puppies to unsuspecting people and then later finding out that the stud in question didn't even sire the litter.


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## Reesmom (Feb 4, 2010)

I personally like to meet the parents of the dogs myself, and spend sometime in person with the breeder. A lot can be covered up over emails and internet. 

Anyway, I did email her and ask her about specific testing, and this is the answer I got. 

"Testing to both parents: SA, vWD, OFA, and eye exams. Updated eyes exams were just checked two weeks ago.

When puppies go to new homes I provide a packet, copy of all testing on parents, AKC papers, and vaccination record."

She also sent me pics of the mom, and she looks fine to my limited knowledge. In the pics she was growing her show coat, but there were never references to her actually showing. There could be dozens of reasons for that both harmless or not. I think I will take BRP'S advice and go meet her before I make a decision.


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

OK - here is the deal..

Stud is really pretty and I got photos of a dam - very beautiful dog. 

Tests : SA was done on both dogs , hips and eyes THIS year - passed. 

This is a repeat breeding - all puppies from previous litter were and are healthy

Stud was used VERY selectively and rarely and bitch was bread, as far as I know only once before - that is what how I understood it...

Both the Stud and the Dam are around 8 years old and in perfect health - which , IMO tells a lot.

Dam has a pedigree listed on the net - she misspelled her name on the site by accident - somebody of our community figured that out and found the link - I will try to find the thread ... She is definitely registered !!!!

Saw photo of one of the pups from previous breeding those 2 dogs - very pretty puppy !!!!

Lady breeds and shows mostly minis now since she is getting old and standards require much more work and investment for showing. 

So, all in all, I would not say that she breeds "for profit" :rolffleyes:, at least not standards - that is for sure ! She is not even giving her Stud services freely ! He is from a famous line and is healthy and stunning - i would guess many in her area would like to use him, but she , for her own reasons, did not like to "sell his services" . I would than conclude that money is not her main motive :rolffleyes:

People like to talk "behind back" many things - especially rival breeders. 

Your best references would be her past customers and I wold seek those especially if you live in proximity ! : )))

She is not top-notch breeder or cream-de-la -cream, but I had a feeling that she is honest person and that she cares about her dogs. She is just "old school" , little bit forgetful also, I think we should take it into consideration her age and I know she lost her dear husband recently - so she is trying her best under the circumstances. 

This all is just , of course, my subjective view, that I formed after exchanged e-mails. 

Hope it helped : )))


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## Reesmom (Feb 4, 2010)

Thanks. That helps a lot. That was my first impression, but I have been burned a couple of times. I feel better having it confirmed. She is very nice. Looks like I'm getting a puppy.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

Excellent advise wish poo that is so true that so many fellow breeders will sour grape about another for whatever reason . _*People like to talk "behind back" many things - especially rival breeders*_

I am so excited for you to be getting a new puppy !!!


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

I guess I always just feel more comfortable meeting both parents. My friend was looking to buy a doberman and the breeder sent her pictures of the dam and sire... she later found out on a doberman forum the pictures were stolen off of the forum. :scared:

Not that I'm saying there are not honest breeders out there... one just never knows unless you see it with your own eyes.
(not all of us are breeders - and not all rival breeders sour up others. JMO)


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Yes - Reesmom can easily travel and see parents : ) ! 

Frostyfire lives in Southpaws area and knows the lady and actually one of her dogs came from this lady. 

I am pretty sure Smoky and Dixie are on the premises : )). Photo that I got of a Dixie as an adult is definitely same dog that is in on the site - that face stayed same - very pretty face expression - very expressive mellow eyes that her pups inherited in the first litter. 

I will try to post a photo of a puppy ...; )

I went on the site and I see she got TWELVE puppies !!!! A lot to choose from !!!! She was expecting small litter and said that she will accept only 5 deposits before she is sure she has more.

Again - sign that she is not "money-motivated" IMO


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

PonkiPoodles said:


> I guess I always just feel more comfortable meeting both parents. My friend was looking to buy a doberman and the breeder sent her pictures of the dam and sire... she later found out on a doberman forum the pictures were stolen off of the forum. :scared:
> 
> Not that I'm saying there are not honest breeders out there... one just never knows unless you see it with your own eyes.
> (not all of us are breeders - and not all rival breeders sour up others. JMO)


Totally agree with you on the "rival breeders" thing. First of all, there shouldn't be "rival breeders". We should all be in this for the betterment of the breed and the improvement of our colour of choice. Lord knows, with quite a few commercial breeders out there, there certainly seems to be enough buyers for all of us. If you are hearing things, it is best to check them out, because it may not be a "rival breeder" at all, but rather, someone who has done their homework and knows things about this breeder that others may not be aware of or looked into. You are right, not all "rival breeders" speak badly about all other breeders. Some will speak about things they do not agree with that someone else may be doing, or they may speak honestly about the quality of anothers dog or dogs when it is justified, or they may speak out about another breeding ethics or lack thereof. But just because you have heard things from another breeder, you shouldn't disregard what has been said. The tools are there to verfiy for yourself if it is sour grapes, or if this other breeder just might be speaking the truth.


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)




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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Ooooooo :clap: :clap2: I like the white satin "backdrop" they used to try to make the picture more professional!  it needs to be a little bit bigger! Thanks for sharing the pretty puppy picture, wishpoo!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

The puppy looks lovely. Nice tail set, decent colour, good angulation, pretty head.


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

LOL Thanks - I guess  I almost feel it is my credit LOL 

By now I really know how to recognize a good puppy , and that is why I have trouble taking "something else" LOL

Satin he he, I know - it somehow makes me smile, details like that. I appreciate when people do their best with resources available to them - not everybody have much or knows the perfect way, but I respect honesty and non-pretentiousness. 

If anybody - I am the "dragon-puppy buyer" - but when I see somebody working hard and not "pulling my leg" and showing results to prove it - I mellow down LOL


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## KalaMama (Nov 20, 2009)

wishpoo said:


>


I'm confused. Are you getting this pup Wishpoo? Beautiful pup.


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## KalaMama (Nov 20, 2009)

Reesmom said:


> I have been looking for a silver or white standard. I have been talking to this very nice lady quite a bit. I had my mind made up, and then I hear from a very trusted source to not buy a puppy from her because she breeds for money.
> 
> Just wondering if any of you have had experience with her or your opinions from her website.
> 
> ...


I don't know them personally, but it seems from what I have read here they look good. I think the wording on websites is just simply that "the wording". Although, I do agree with some of the phrases brought up that could be an alarm, but not always. Good luck and let us know what happens of course


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_Absolutely lovely puppy! Good luck with picking one for yourself. You must be so excited!!
_


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

My dear fellow poodle-lovers :grouphug:

There is a confusion happening LOL - I am just giving available info about the breeder.

A member asked for an opinion and since I had info that could be valuable to future buyer - I posted all I knew , including a photo of the puppy from a previous breeding to demonstrate the quality. 

No - it is not my future puppy (I wish...). That puppy is now 3 year old female, I think ...

BUT - I made somebody happy today and I feel happy that I helped : )))) ! So all my excitement is coming from that fact *HUGS to all


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## Reesmom (Feb 4, 2010)

Thanks again Wishpoo. I am so excited!!! :dancing2: And thanks everyone for all your help. I'll post pictures when I get him. I'm sending my deposit tomorrow.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Oh wow! That was quick and I think your going to be pleased, I have heard good things from other breeders. And I LOVE those SILVER babies!!!!


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

Reesmom said:


> Thanks again Wishpoo. I am so excited!!! :dancing2: And thanks everyone for all your help. I'll post pictures when I get him. I'm sending my deposit tomorrow.


So excited for you !


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## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

Oooh that silver baby is just adorable!!


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

My second passion


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

Cheryl is a very nice person. I groom a toy she sold and he is very pretty.

I prsonally was thinking of a pup from this breeder in the future. I've got 3 growing out now, so no room for any additonal ones.

Keep us posted ))


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

tintlet said:


> Cheryl is a very nice person. I groom a toy she sold and he is very pretty.
> 
> I prsonally was thinking of a pup from this breeder in the future. I've got 3 growing out now, so no room for any additonal ones.
> 
> Keep us posted ))


Welcome back ! good to see you here!


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

Thanks!! I don't get much time to post.... trying to get UKC shows lined up


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Reesemom, are you getting a silver or white? Congratulations!


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## Reesmom (Feb 4, 2010)

Harley_chick, I am getting a silver. It is a repeat breeding of the puppy above in the picture.


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## dagnyreis (Nov 25, 2009)

*Anything about this breeder*



Reesmom said:


> I have been looking for a silver or white standard. I have been talking to this very nice lady quite a bit. I had my mind made up, and then I hear from a very trusted source to not buy a puppy from her because she breeds for money.
> 
> Just wondering if any of you have had experience with her or your opinions from her website.
> 
> ...


I would check the health background on Ch. Graphic Smokejumper


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## ToyPoodle46 (Oct 10, 2010)

Hey, I just finished contacting her!  I was recommended to her by a breeder in NC that is listed in the poodleclubofamerica  So just contact her if u'd like, but be sure to visit her before buying...


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## ToyPoodle46 (Oct 10, 2010)

PonkiPoodles said:


> Nope... these are the breeders you want to stay away from IMO. The thing with byb's and puppy millers is they'll make themselves sound very professional and good by using terms regular average joes don't understand... "we are inspected by the AKC" and people think WOW! They must be great breeders.
> More puppy mill lingo include:
> "we are against puppy mills"
> "USDA inspected facility"
> ...


Wow, thanks, didn't know this


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