# Breeding bitches on back to back cycles



## Poodlemanic (Jun 27, 2016)

There've been some threads on this forum where vets have been quoted as saying, an empty uterus is a dangerous uterus; as long as health isn't compromised, breed the dog a few times back to back and have her spayed sooner. I'd look it up and provide a link but I had such a long day, I'm collapsed on the couch! Even my fingers don't want to work.


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## itzmeigh (Apr 28, 2014)

Hazel's breeder has done some amount of research into the subject and she believes that breeding them back to back and then retiring them young is the best bet.

One reason I've read for this is that a bitch will think she's pregnant even when she isn't. So after their heat their body still goes through the surge of pregnancy hormones (unlike a human who only has pregnancy hormones when she is actually pregnant). Because of this she feels it is healthier for the bitch to go ahead and carry a next litter verses skipping that cycle only to breed the next cycle. 

Also by doing this she she retires her bitches quickly. She'll only breed them about 3-4 times and then they are spayed and go into their forever home and have a nice long life left just being awesome family pets. (All of her dogs live in homes. None are kenneled.)

I'm comfortable with her program, her dogs are all extremely happy and healthy.


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## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

I have also read some articles saying that dogs are meant to be bred each heat cycle. I don't know many breeders personally who do it (lots of work to raise a litter plus you need buyers lined up I assume) but I have heard the same thing as Poodlemanic.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Thanks for your input, everyone! It makes sense to me now.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I read in that PV discussion of Toy breeding, that back to back breeding wasn't unusual at all. Not all Toys can self whelp and that practice may make future litters easier to deliver. I have to believe that the difference between an ethical breeder and a puppy miller is that the breeding pairs are carefully vetted and chosen, the health of the Champion bitch is paramount. Aren't females retired at their upper limits by five? For SPOO's that's still a long life ahead.


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## sidewinder (Feb 3, 2016)

In the Scottie world, ethical breeders breed their bitches only once a year. A bitch is never required to have more than 3 litters in her lifetime, and she's retired from breeding no later than age 6 (more usually 5). She isn't bred the first time until she has had at least 3 seasons. Since Scotties usually come in season the first time at 6 months, that means she is bred at the earliest at 18 months. Often, it's later, in order to give her time to complete an AKC championship.

I have read that many reputable repro vets recommend that a bitch, if she is in good health and recovered well from her last whelping, be bred every season. The idea is that her uterus is bombarded by hormones when she comes in season, pregnant or not, and if not, it is dangerous. It can set her up for cancer or (more often), pyometra. 

I always gave my girls a year off between litters, and I never did have a bitch I bred more than twice. Mostly that was because I was exhausted after whelping and raising a litter to 12 weeks and needed at least a year off to catch up with my real life! Scotties are hard to breed, hard to whelp (often needing c-sections) and hard to raise! Out of 9 litters in 20 years, I only had one litter that I was able to raise all the pups to 12 weeks old. I think that Poodles are easier (though I have not bred them)! Moms whelp more easily, and are more careful with their babies.


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## RylieJames (Feb 3, 2016)

*Back to Back*

I'm not a breeder (yet), but I did study this in college. There is nothing wrong with breeding a bitch back to back, assuming she is in good health and had no problems with past litters.

I wouldn't worry too much about the risk of reproductive-related cancers as the risk is relatively low and often over-exaggerated by spay/neuter activists. What is a signifiant issue is pyometra though. If you have a bitch, you need to be on top of her cycle and make sure you watch out for this (it can occur at the end of a heat cycle). It is a life-threatening emergency if it happens.

Also, regarding the bitch's hormones after her heat--they typically return to normal if she isn't bred. A previous poster mentioned something about her body responding like she was pregnant anyway. That only happens in pseudopregnancies. They are not uncommon, but typically if a bitch isn't bred, her hormones return to normal and don't mimic a pregnancy.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

RylieJames said:


> I'm not a breeder (yet), but I did study this in college. There is nothing wrong with breeding a bitch back to back, assuming she is in good health and had no problems with past litters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Right, so if a bitch has back to back litters, the risk of pyometria is almost none. 
I think resting between litters might be anthropomorphizing - back to back litters are what would happen in nature, and I think that in order for a species to have survived, nature has already chosen the right way to do things...


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## sidewinder (Feb 3, 2016)

Breeding a young healthy bitch on back to back for her 3 or 4 lifetime litters is usually ok. It is healthier for her uterus. Definitely reduces (not eliminates) the chances of pyometra. However, some folks are greedy and don't stop after 3 or 4 litters. Whelping and nursing a litter is a drag on a bitch's general health, and if she's not well cared for between litters, she can't recover fully. Sometimes a c-section is necessary and it takes longer than the 6 months between seasons to recover from the surgery. I just wanted to point out that it's hard to make generalizations about these things. Sure, breeding back to back may have ensured survival of the species, but it's not always so good for the individual bitches.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

sidewinder said:


> Breeding a young healthy bitch on back to back for her 3 or 4 lifetime litters is usually ok. It is healthier for her uterus. Definitely reduces (not eliminates) the chances of pyometra. However, some folks are greedy and don't stop after 3 or 4 litters. Whelping and nursing a litter is a drag on a bitch's general health, and if she's not well cared for between litters, she can't recover fully. Sometimes a c-section is necessary and it takes longer than the 6 months between seasons to recover from the surgery. I just wanted to point out that it's hard to make generalizations about these things. Sure, breeding back to back may have ensured survival of the species, but it's not always so good for the individual bitches.



But it definitely isn't the greedy abussive thing that folks used to think it was - it is for sure one of several reasonable approaches that a breeder may take.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Several years ago, I enjoyed reading an educated dog person (not Poodles, but an educated fancier in a different breed) share info that theriogenologists were recommending back to back breedings in proven bitches, just not in the first two litters. The writer indicated it might be acceptable to breed a bitch four, maybe five times total (which first seemed high to me as an undereducated layperson) and is maybe applicable to those who have dogs with genes a breed needs to advance. I have read many breeders will stop after two or three litters and go ahead and spay the bitch, but understand there could be very reasonable variations where someone very educated in lines and genetics would make a different choice.

I've read in one breed and imagine it could apply in others, that it is suggested perhaps waiting to breed until after the age of five. Cavies were the specific breed where I read that (on a layperson's board, written by a knowledgeable breed fancier), and the intent was to rule out cardio problems. It's an interesting approach. Wondering if advances such as the wonderful diversity test from UC Davis may eventually assist other breeds where fanciers are trying to breed away from problems.

Anyway, I went off topic. Short answer for me, is depending on the breeder, one might salute b-2-b breeding to keep a bitch healthier in the long run. Or not, again, depending on the breeder, education, and plan. I'm no expert, and might consult a breed expert who knows breeding through and through but is not a stuck in the mud person if I had to make a choice based on such a situation. Doubtful that will arise for me , but who knows. I don't tend to assume breeders are doing it wrong if all the signs are they are right, so now at the end of writing this, I do start to see how the question could have almost political implications . Especially from those not well educated in such a topic, what with the ARers always so close at hand.

Ack, I do go on and on!


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