# Moyen/Klein Poodle breeder



## Haitch (6 mo ago)

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https://www.reddit.com/r/poodles/comments/saabmb

not living in the USA I have no idea , but went looking , both at her site , Facebook page and generally .
two reviews on here where people actually have one of her dogs . I wish you joy with your puppy , wherever it comes from , and there is often doubt I think nowadays . Too many dire breeders about , we have puppy farms over here , but they are sneaky and will sell puppies from car parks , or less obviously rent a house then sell from there , too many folks fall for that one . Pretty certain this breeder is not one of those !


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

I'm sorry but no, just no to this breeder. They were starting to lose me at WAY too many dogs and not attractive AT ALL dogs, imho, and then they fully lost me at "Buy one puppy, get second one $200 off" because they believe two puppies are better than one! Hello, littermate syndrome! This is a greeder in sheep's clothing. The Better-Bred designation is about the only thing I like about them. UGH. 

Also, FYI, even the "top" Moyen breeders are mixing minis with standards with _some_ European lineage. I don't have any problem with this because it's good for genetic diversity, but just know what you are really getting.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Oh, and to your question about reserving a puppy just based on coat color, I think that is bad practice. I think ethical breeders do temperament testing at 49 days before homes are selected/people are allowed to choose their pup. That is how I bought Maizie. The breeder and I mutually chose Frosty for me when he was 5.5 weeks old.


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## ctviggen (6 mo ago)

I wonder how well that temperament testing really tells the temperament of a dog over time. I did research on this question, and found no good answers. One problem is that follow up testing is very difficult; there are simply too many variables. 

See this for instance. Testing


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## NisuMom (5 mo ago)

I hear what you're saying @ctviggen. I have a dog now who I got as a guardian for a local breeder and when she was only a few weeks old, the breeder told me she was "timid, but beautiful." I love my girl, but she is scared of her own shadow. I guess I'd just like to give ourselves the best chance of finding a balanced dog.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

ctviggen said:


> I wonder how well that temperament testing really tells the temperament of a dog over time. I did research on this question, and found no good answers. One problem is that follow up testing is very difficult; there are simply too many variables.
> 
> See this for instance. Testing


Well, I can tell you both of my dogs are EXACTLY the same as they tested as at 49 days of age. They are now 6 and 7 years old. I fully believe in the Volhard.

ETA: I socialized them and trained them well, obvi.


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## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

NisuMom said:


> I researched and researched breeders and finally decided I wanted a puppy from either Great Lakes Poodles or Moonrise Poodles, both of which are spoken (though not often) highly on this forum. I finally put down a deposit with Great Lakes and two things are bothering me. Wanted to get the group's input. Firstly, the breeder posted an entire litter of 1 week old puppies available to buy. This is so concerning to me because temperament and fit matter most to us and if anyone can pick a puppy in this way, you lose the whole benefit of having the dog matched for you. Doesn't this seem counter to good practice? And secondly, I've texted the breeder a few times asking for additional pics and have had no response. Has anyone with a puppy from Great Lakes have any insight? What do you all think? Should I be concerned?
> Thanks!!!


This is my personal opinion- Great Lakes is doing a lot of the right things but there’s one too many oddities on the site to me. I don’t love that health guarantee pending on you having to feed the puppies a specific food that reports back to the breeder. Or that it voids at 3 years old and that they won’t help you with vet bills but instead ask for your beloved dog back for a new puppy of the same color. I don’t love the amount of dogs that are being sold. I REALLY don’t love them suggesting you buy 2 puppies at the same time and getting a $200 discount like a 2 for 1 sale at walmart 😅. And hanging so many dogs was CDDY carriers I’d traps alarming. I appreciate that they health test and i know larger scaled breeders like this are needed to keep up with the massive demand in the country but if it were me, I would pass on this breeder, they’re not terrible by any means but I think you can find better.


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## NisuMom (5 mo ago)

Thank you all. I was able to get my (non-refundable) deposit back - which I appreciated - and the search continues. I'm talking with Moonrise Poodles and Aery Poodles.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

That is great news! Glad they did the right thing in refunding your deposit.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

ctviggen said:


> I wonder how well that temperament testing really tells the temperament of a dog over time. I did research on this question, and found no good answers. One problem is that follow up testing is very difficult; there are simply too many variables.
> 
> See this for instance. Testing


I find testing gives you a general picture of your pup's temperament. However, as your pup grows, the way they are brought up, socialised, experiences etc are a huge influence. No breeder can predict that.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Moonrise and Aery - 
Regarding Moonrise: since I have always tried to breed to the AKC standard, I do not support the breeding of parti-color poodles, that said, I see that Moonrise makes every effort to breed genetically healthy poodles. 
Aery - my current miniature is sired by an Aery dog (Ch Aery King of the Castle), so I traced her Aery background carefully - I was pleased to see health testing back for generations. I can certainly recommend Aery poodles (Richard Bohannon).


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Minie said:


> I find testing gives you a general picture of your pup's temperament. However, as your pup grows, the way they are brought up, socialised, experiences etc are a huge influence. No breeder can predict that.


I agree to an extent. But then I think of why one abused dog never loses their optimism while another fights back and gets euthanized. Temperament really trumps so much.

I made non-stop mistakes with my last girl and am so grateful that her temperament prevailed. On the other hand, we have poured _so much_ of our energy into socializing Peggy, but...she is always going to be Peggy.

With each of my last three dogs, I introduced them to a fuzzy wind-up chicken. Gracie interacted with it briefly and then lost interest unless I engaged her. Charlie gave it the briefest of sniffs and then ignored it completely. Peggy flipped out and tried to rip it apart.

Temperament, temperament, temperament.

@NisuMom, have you watched some of Moonrise’s temperament testing videos? They are fascinating!


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## NisuMom (5 mo ago)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I agree to an extent. But then I think of why one abused dog never loses their optimism while another fights back and gets euthanized. Temperament really trumps so much.
> 
> I made non-stop mistakes with my last girl and am so grateful that her temperament prevailed. On the other hand, we have poured _so much_ of our energy into socializing Peggy, but...she is always going to be Peggy.
> 
> ...





PeggyTheParti said:


> I agree to an extent. But then I think of why one abused dog never loses their optimism while another fights back and gets euthanized. Temperament really trumps so much.
> 
> I made non-stop mistakes with my last girl and am so grateful that her temperament prevailed. On the other hand, we have poured _so much_ of our energy into socializing Peggy, but...she is always going to be Peggy.
> 
> ...


I'm so glad to hear about your experience with Peggy. We have Maisie. 🤪
Yes! I've been watching the videos! They're addicting. So adorable. I can't wait to watch my puppy's test. I put down a deposit with Moonrise!!


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## NisuMom (5 mo ago)

Johanna said:


> Moonrise and Aery -
> Regarding Moonrise: since I have always tried to breed to the AKC standard, I do not support the breeding of parti-color poodles, that said, I see that Moonrise makes every effort to breed genetically healthy poodles.
> Aery - my current miniature is sired by an Aery dog (Ch Aery King of the Castle), so I traced her Aery background carefully - I was pleased to see health testing back for generations. I can certainly recommend Aery poodles (Richard Bohannon).


I've spoken with both breeders and due to size and timing, I'm going to get a puppy from Moonrise. So excited!!


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I agree to an extent. But then I think of why one abused dog never loses their optimism while another fights back and gets euthanized. Temperament really trumps so much.
> 
> I made non-stop mistakes with my last girl and am so grateful that her temperament prevailed. On the other hand, we have poured _so much_ of our energy into socializing Peggy, but...she is always going to be Peggy.
> 
> ...


I definitely agree, that temperament testing tells you what the fundamental of the dog is. I am very glad, that Matteo and his littermates were tested, and that the testing holds true as he grows up. However we do have an influence. We can either enhance or tone down qualities when raising the dog. 
I have seen calm puppies turn into unruly dogs and a nervous pup raised to be relatively solid. I think this is exactly the case with Peggy. You have had such a great influence on her, that you really can take her anywhere and everyone enjoys the trip. In a less experienced or less aware family, Peggy could be very different and had a much less enjoyable life.
To sum it up, I really believe in temperament testing and matching the right pup with the right family. However, I am acutely aware of the fact that what I put in, is what I get out.


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## NM0722 (6 mo ago)

NisuMom said:


> I've spoken with both breeders and due to size and timing, I'm going to get a puppy from Moonrise. So excited!!


As a new owner of a Moonrise puppy, I cannot say enough great things about this breeder! I love her dedication to the puppies, first, to ensure a good match. And, her early handling and socializing are so evident in our puppy.


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

Congratulations on finding a breeder you can feel confident with! I obsessed over that too with Gracie, but it paid off in the end.

Interesting conversation about the old nature vs nurture debate. I used to tell my students that “genetics loads the gun but environment can pull the trigger”.

I too have had rescue dogs that against all odds overcame abuse/neglect/abandonment and became well adjusted family pets. Two of them are on my couch right now, lol! However, being now involved in competition agility, I’ve also seen dogs that have had every advantage in the world but came from breeders who did not prioritize temperament and are huge challenges for their owners.

That said, Gracie is my first dog from a reputable breeder and she was a pleasure from day 1. There was nothing to fix, and her temperament is rock solid. But I specifically considered temperament and met multiple dogs from this breeder, including her mother, grandmother, and half sister. My future dogs will only be poodles from reputable breeders…preferably the same one if she’s still breeding when I’m ready for a new pup!

Looking forward to hearing about your experience with your new pup and their breeder!


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## NisuMom (5 mo ago)

NM0722 said:


> As a new owner of a Moonrise puppy, I cannot say enough great things about this breeder! I love her dedication to the puppies, first, to ensure a good match. And, her early handling and socializing are so evident in our puppy.


Thank you so much for your reply and congratulations! Tell me about your puppy! Who are the parents, is it a boy or girl, etc?


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## TuttoBene (Apr 23, 2021)

ctviggen said:


> I wonder how well that temperament testing really tells the temperament of a dog over time. I did research on this question, and found no good answers. One problem is that follow up testing is very difficult; there are simply too many variables.
> 
> See this for instance. Testing


When we received our puppy we were given a copy of the score for each exercise in the temperament aptitude test. I asked for a dog that “played well with others”. We were told that our puppy had a tendency to be a Velcro dog but would do well with confidence building. I saw the aptitude test as a starting point not a “fait accompli”. Our dog is now almost 19 months . He recieved his CGC at 10 months. He is an incredible dog with other living beings, both animal and human. He is very attached to us so separation was our last hurdle but he’s there now. I was very happy with the testing, the breeder’s match and the wonderful results.


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