# Topknot or not?



## Tink (Mar 14, 2012)

My 12 week old puppy Pearl has a grooming appointment. She is currently in the puppy show cut but I think I want to lose a lot of length because of the heat here in Kansas and the upkeep. I have been looking at the Miami clip. I'm not sure if the groomer can achieve this with a wiggly puppy.

Pearl has tear stains and I don't know if it would be better for her to have a topknot to keep the hair out of her eyes or have it cut shorter. I would appreciate any advice on which would work better to keep eye irritation to a minimum.


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## Anntig (Jun 9, 2010)

If you can keep up with rebanding (every two to three days) a banded tk does seem to cause less irritation, however if you don't want to be bothered with that a scissored tk works if it's redone every two weeks or so.
However tear stains often have more to do with diet than hair, so neither method is likely to solve that.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Has your puppy ever been groomed before? At all? I would not recommend a full body groom on a puppy that's never been in a grooming salon before, I'd have at least 2-3 times of face/feet/tail and a bath/brush before attempting a full body groom.


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## Tink (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for the reply. We feed a homemade raw diet, so I think she is getting great food. I have read everything I can find on tear stains. I was just wondering what would be the best I can do to keep her fur out of her eyes.


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## Tink (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes she was completly groomed by the breeder twice before she came home with me. I have done her face, feet, and tail once and have given her many baths and blow dry.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Okay good!  Just making sure!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Tink said:


> Thanks for the reply. We feed a homemade raw diet, so I think she is getting great food. I have read everything I can find on tear stains. I was just wondering what would be the best I can do to keep her fur out of her eyes.


Yes, I disagree with the above poster about diet being a more likely cause of tear stains. I am not convinced that diet will make a huge difference except in the case of allergies, which would could cause excessive tearing. Dogs without allergies, on the best possible diet (homecooked, raw, high quality kibble) may still get tear stains if they tear. My white dog tears a little bit naturally from chewing when he eats, plays or chews on bones. He is raw fed. The moisture from the tear stains causes a reaction/sort of bacterial infection which is why antibiotics are used very effectively to completely eliminate tear stains. 

Hair in the eyes can cause irritation and watering, which is probably exactly what you are noticing.

When I first got Millie as a puppy, she was 10 weeks old. It was not until 12 weeks that I took her to the groomer for her first full groom. She had had FFT done with her groomer, though had never had a full groom. That said, she did just fine at the groomer's. I am sure you will be OK taking your puppy at 12 weeks to a groomer. 

Why is your puppy in show trim? Were you planning to show? If so, don't give up now! Just start banding the top as soon as you can - little devil horns - part down the middle so you can band one little section above each eye. At such a young age, you may have to redo bands quite frequently but IMO it's worth it!


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## Tink (Mar 14, 2012)

Pearl is cream with liver pigment so she is not show quality. The breeder keeps all of her puppies in the show puppy cut.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Bad tear staining is often the result of bacteria. I forget what kind, my vet explained it to me. Angel Eyes is a product that I've heard good reviews from. I haven't needed it so I can't personally say if it worked for my dog.

Tell the groomer that you want a Miami if possible with her behavior. If your pup is good, you might get the Miami. If she's not cooperative enough, your groomer will have a plan B. My puppy was groomed a lot at the breeder and at 12 weeks I could have done a Miami if I wanted to. But that's not normal. I groom dogs that are 6 months old and still don't have the training/experience for a body shave. 

Also keep in mind that puppy hair often lacks texture to make the pretty bracelets in a Miami. If your groomer has experience with poodles s/he can tell you what to expect.

For the topknot - I have a strong preference for a banded topknot. It stays out of a dog's eyes better/longer. It does need to be reset fairly often. I'm lazy. I band it and then use a little butterfly clip over the first band to pull back hair that slips out during the week.


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## Tink (Mar 14, 2012)

I have been going to this groomer about 3 years with my other 2 dogs. I plan on talking with her about what kind of clip can be done due to her age and coat. 

My vet doesn't want me to use a product that contains an antibiotic until she is full grown and has all of her adult teeth. In the meantime, I am looking into all other remedies and hope keeping her hair out of her eyes will help a little.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Tink said:


> I have been going to this groomer about 3 years with my other 2 dogs. I plan on talking with her about what kind of clip can be done due to her age and coat.
> 
> My vet doesn't want me to use a product that contains an antibiotic until she is full grown and has all of her adult teeth. In the meantime, I am looking into all other remedies and hope keeping her hair out of her eyes will help a little.


I agree about not using Tylosin until they are older. Even then, I have only used it during extended periods of showing.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Has anyone ever researched "natural antiboitics" for dogs? I know that people can use garlic, goldenseal and echinacea. I bet there are more, but those are the ones that I personally have used. I wonder if they could be used ? Just throwing that out there, might be worth looking into...


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## Apres Argent (Aug 9, 2010)

I have a cream who went through a period of time when he was tearing while chewing or playing, I washed his face daily and used a tiny bit of desitin being very careful not to get it in the eye to prevent staining and it worked very well. CC Ice on Ice put on your finger and applied under the eye will do the same.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Carley's Mom said:


> Has anyone ever researched "natural antiboitics" for dogs? I know that people can use garlic, goldenseal and echinacea. I bet there are more, but those are the ones that I personally have used. I wonder if they could be used ? Just throwing that out there, might be worth looking into...


Many people give their dogs garlic - but it is toxic for dogs. If you choose to use it talk to your vet and be careful about dose.


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## Tink (Mar 14, 2012)

I have CC ice on ice, I'll give it a try. 

I have read about garlic being toxic even though it is in some of the dog treats and food.

I will talk more with my vet at her next visit to see if we can find the cause of the tearing.

Pearl goes to the groomer in the morning. I'm excited to see her new hairdo.


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## Agidog (Jun 4, 2012)

*TEar staining*

Can be associated with yeast and grain in diet and is often result of yeast based fungul infection, you can use a product like petroleum jelly smeared lightly under eyes which deflects the tears away from the fur. 
Certain breeds aremore susceptable to this condition and often it is just more prevelent in some then others like maltese and lighter coloured poodles, some suggestion has been put forward that these dogs have a higher UV factor sensitivity akin to humans who need to wear sunnies. Also the more almond shaped the eyes the worse it is. My daughter has a bull dog who has white on face with bad staining and was due to grass seed allergy, they changed diet, used cream to deflect tears, put dog rocks in water bowl to change PH of secreations and also went on course of anti fungal medication and now it has cleared up.


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

Cant wait to see what clip you choose! I have a white standard that has problems with tearing and staining..I do think that having a long TK has made it worse at times as it was growing out...but once it got long it doesnt bother too much. I do use angel eyes and have had excellent results with it. I think I used it daily for a few weeks then only a couple times a week. She is a grown adult however. Im sure you have read the many reasons for tearing...and what leads to staining. Tooth problems, allergies, genetics, anatomy...all can play a role. My standard just seems to have watery eyes. If hair gets in them it acts like a wick and causes tears to run down the face. wiping the face often will help and keeping it shaved close will get rid of it totally! My other white standard who is much younger never tears..they are from the same line. Good luck and post some photos of your new clip!


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