# Aren't Miniatures the perfect package!



## spoowhisperer (Apr 26, 2010)

So glad I ventured into the world of minis, so fun, so portable, so snuggable, less money to feed and general vet bills. They are super athletic and game minded. Oh, and MUCH less time for me to groom!
I do love my standards, and hope to always have one, but as the years go on, I think a mini or two will be very doable.

Minis are the perfect package! by maryac58, on Flickr

So what do you love about having a miniature? Lets hear from everyone, because I know when I was thinking of getting one, I really knew nothing about them and scrounged for any scraps of knowledge and or personal opinions to help me in my decision.


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## 4Paws (Dec 11, 2010)

I chose a mini because they do well in apartments. I live "downtown" so there are lots of sidewalks, so I don't feel bad if he doesn't get to run free like I would want a big dog to be able to do.
They are easier on the bills, as you mentioned. They are easier to put in the car and go someplace, even if it's an outside patio to a bar or restaurant, he's the right size to not be a nuisance to anyone for whatever reason. Minis are a great size to grab out of a tussling pack-fight if you ever need to. I haven't needed to because Polo has a great temperament and is quick to get out of the way, but I do want to be on my toes in case I ever need to grab him quickly.
I plan on grooming him his whole life, and the size makes it a snap. I used to bathe for groomers, and german shepherds and english sheepdogs are backbreaking compared to a miniature poodle. 
He is small enough to split a seat with, and to share a pillow with at night.


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

I love every size, have friends with spoos and toys that are fantastic, but I've only owned minis and it's the size I'm most comfortable with as a result. BUT, if I had the space, I would have a poodle of every size, in every color!


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## spoowhisperer (Apr 26, 2010)

minipoodlelover said:


> I love every size, have friends with spoos and toys that are fantastic, but I've only owned minis and it's the size I'm most comfortable with as a result. BUT, if I had the space, I would have a poodle of every size, in every color!


LOL! Yes! Me too! I have the space to have one of every color, but don't have a husband that would agree to that! Maybe that's a good thing, because it would be so hard for me to stop wanting one of every size and color!


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## Laceypoo (Aug 23, 2011)

Let me join in by saying - I just can't say enough good things about the mini. I grew up with all three sizes and started out looking for a spoo. The spoo I grew up with left a lasting impression on me. I decided my little 10 year old Pug might be overwhelmed by the bigger dog and thus switched my search to the mini. I wanted a rescue and she has proved to be everything I was looking for in a poodle. She definitely has faults as far as conformation, but she is absolutely perfect when it comes to heart and soul. She has gone from being a stray to working with 1st graders who read below their grade level. We did a presentation to a first grade class today and she really made me proud!!! She is trustworthy in all situations. Some days I can't believe how far she has come since we brought her home.

And it is just an added bonus that she is a rather portable size!!! I coudn't love her more.


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

I was fawning over several spoos at the groomer's place just this morning, but as far as my family is concerned, at just under 17" our oversize mini is a Goldilocks dog: He's not too big, not too small, but _just right_. He's big enough to be a great walking companion, but small enough to pick up and carry when necessary. He doesn't eat a huge amount of food (treats are another story), so we can afford to feed him frozen raw. We can also afford to have him professionally groomed, which is a good thing, as I shudder to think what he'd look like if I took clippers to him.

Beau is amazingly sweet, super cuddly, and smart as a whip. He is not at all yappy or hyper (okay, maybe _occasionally_ hyper) and is more of a couch potato than an athlete. He has a mischievous streak a mile wide, and if/when he gets bored, something is going to get chewed up into tiny bits. Often something expensive.

My wife and I sometimes look at each other and say, "Did you ever think you'd love a dog this much?" No, we did not. But we sure do now.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

When I found Alex, I knew he was the perfect size for me. He's an oversized miniature at 17.5" tall. I love the SPOOS, but that's a _lot _of grooming work! LOL Alex has the perfect temperament, is portable if necessary, and can run most people into the ground.  

I later acquired a smaller mini, then two more mini rescues, and then my most recent mini rescue, and I love the size. Mini poodles = Perfect package.


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## sandooch (Jan 20, 2011)

I don't have much more to add other than what has already been said. When I first bought Gigi, I was told she'd be a toy. But she is now 14.5 inches and is, indeed, a miniture. I love that she has no problem jumping onto my high bed or in the car. I don't worry about stepping on her now like when she was a tiny puppy. And even though it's a bit more work to groom her rather than a toy, it really doesn't take that much time.


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

At what age do minis usually stop growing? I don't remember with my other dogs. I think Angie is going to be bigger than any of my other minis....


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

What do I like about minis? How much time do you have?! They are smart, athletic, enjoy training (and are a quick study), playful, sensitive, loyal, robust, friendly, portable (yes, I can "bench press" the equivalent of my mini's weight, lol!), easy enough to groom, charming, good-looking, and many of those who own one (or more) share a lot of those attributes._ teehee!_


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

First, let me say that you have one of the best looking mini's I've seen. Most of them around here are short legged chubby little things, hardly an athletic dog. My opinions of minis changed a lot when I saw them in an AKC show. They beared little resemblance to the hourdes of minis around here! Long legged, athletic little dogs for sure! Before I saw a well bred mini my thoughts of them were "Who would want one of those yappy, stubby things?" 

I wouldn't be opposed to a wellbred mini like yours. He looks fabulous. I remember seeing his picture trying to keep up with his big brothers! LOL


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Nawwwwww. I gotta bend over too far to pet them!  

Standards rule!!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Countryboy said:


> Nawwwwww. I gotta bend over too far to pet them!


Not if you put them on a pedestal you don't!:adore:


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

outwest said:


> First, let me say that you have one of the best looking mini's I've seen. Most of them around here are short legged chubby little things, hardly an athletic dog. My opinions of minis changed a lot when I saw them in an AKC show. They beared little resemblance to the hourdes of minis around here! Long legged, athletic little dogs for sure! Before I saw a well bred mini my thoughts of them were "Who would want one of those yappy, stubby things?"
> 
> I wouldn't be opposed to a wellbred mini like yours. He looks fabulous. I remember seeing his picture trying to keep up with his big brothers! LOL


I'm sticking with my earlier answer, which inferred minis are indeed "the perfect package!" I want to add my mini is quiet, and not in the least bit yappy. Unlike some people, when he opens his mouth to make a noise, he has a good reason to do so! I admit to a bias here, but in addition to being the easiest dog to live with that I can imagine, I think he's Cary Grant handsome. He's got a natural elegance and bearing about him and I am all-out enthralled with his lovely silver hair. So I will reaffirm that_ yes, _miniatures are indeed "the perfect package," _for some of us.
_

I am unabashedly a diehard mini fan, as you can surely tell. But I so agree with you, I'm not "opposed" to a well-bred anything; dog, cat, horse, cow or person.:wink:


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Well, Chagal is certainly a good looking little chap, too! Neither of your minis seems to have the personality attributes that rule around here. At the dog park they spend most of the time running back and forth along the fence yapping at all the big dogs. One in particular you can't get near or he is trying to nip at you! They aren't very good ambassadors for the breed, admittedly.  

I have never owned a small dog. My Bonnie is the smallest dog I have had and before that my gigantic whippet Echo was the smallest. I was happy when I, like countryboy, didn't have to bend down to pat her anymore. I might be able to do a small dog at some point, as long as I always had a large dog around, too.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

Hhhmmm, I thought the purpose of this thread was to highlight what we *LIKE *about Miniature Poodles, without regard to pedigree. :dontknow: 



> *Outwest said*:
> ...Most of them around here are *short legged chubby little things, hardly an athletic dog.* My opinions of minis changed a lot when I saw them in an AKC show. They beared little resemblance to the hourdes of minis around here! Long legged, athletic little dogs for sure! Before I saw a well bred mini my thoughts of them were *"Who would want one of those yappy, stubby things?"* ...
> Neither of your minis seems to have the personality attributes that rule around here. At the dog park they spend most of the time running back and forth along the fence yapping at all the big dogs. One in particular you can't get near or he is trying to nip at you! They aren't very good ambassadors for the breed, admittedly.


To answer your question: ME, as I rescued two such dogs, and I predict a number of other dog lovers out there who can look beyond the imperfect conformation and chubby little bodies.  

But we're not discussing the merits of good breeding v. poor breeding, but the Miniature Poodle in general. 

*You probably own a well-bred Standard Poodle that conforms to AKC standards, correct? Well a Miniature Poodle is essentially the same dog only smaller. Same breed standard.* 


> Source: AKC http://www.akc.org/breeds/poodle/ The Standard for the Poodle (Toy variety) is the same as for the Standard and Miniature varieties except as regards heights.


So, if you were exposed to a "horde" or poorly bred SPOOS would that change your opinion of the size? I've seen some unruly SPOOS that also didn't meet the breed standard, and it didn't turn me off the breed or size, because I know enough about poodles to realize _that's not the norm_. As for behaviour, I also know enough to realize that in most cases, it's not the dog's fault. 

Most of us who are fortunate enough to be owned by a miniature poodle or two or three, regardless of their pedigree, seem to agree that it's the _size _that works for us. So let's take this a step further and discuss small dogs and "yappiness." 

I don't think being "vocal" can necessarily be attributed to _size_ or _breeding _(and I'm not talking about BYB or PMs here, as any dog can develop horrific behaviours if mistreated to such an extent). It's attributed to training (or lack thereof) and of course, a dog's mission or purpose. 

Smaller dogs are allowed to get away with undesirable behaviours not tolerated in larger dogs, and people have a tendency to treat small dogs like accessories, ala Paris Hilton. _In general_, when a small dog jumps on you, it's cute. When a Mastiff jumps on you, it's not so cute. We correct the Mastiff but the cute little Maltese is picked up and cuddled, that's if s/he is allowed to walk in the first place. Large dogs are expected to walk everywhere while small dogs are carried around in 15K Les Poochs bags.  And we wonder why there are so many unruly small dogs? Blame the human, not the canine. 

As for a dog's purpose and vocalization, it's actually desired (and inherent) in some breeds, such as those bred to alert us humans of an intruder or to _the location of small, trapped game_ (terriers, dachsunds, etc.). 

In summary, you obviously can't judge a dog breed or a size by its worst specimens, and smaller dogs aren't necessarily more vocal or "yappy." I guess I don't understand the logic of your stance (that you don't like Miniature Poodles based on a "horde" of poorly bred specimens at the dog park). A (Toy) Poodle is a (Mini) Poodle is a (Standard) Poodle. Blame the owners for the barking. As for the short, stubby miniature poodles being "undesirable," beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Not every dog can be gorgeous and show ring perfect, but that doesn't make them any less worthy of someone's love. 

Sorry, but as a rescuer, this is something near and dear to my heart.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Thanks for setting me straight, Rowan. The poodle IS meant to be a watchdog that barks when appropriate. I do appreciate that aspect of them and have encouraged protective barking in my little spoo. My whippet rarely barks (unless there is a squirrel on the wire). I wanted at least one barking watchdog. I have trained my spoo to quit barking when I don't want to hear it, so perhaps what you say is true- it is the owners who allow such rampant barking. With mine I just say, "Quiet!" and that's the end of it.

I mentioned before- when I saw some minis that looked like spoos I thought they were absolutely lovely dogs. I don't quite understand small dogs and the desire for them, but that is just me. What is their purpose? LOL. 

It would be very easy to have multiple poodle syndrome with minis. One spoo takes up a lot of couch room.

Now, my husband grew up with a miniature poodle named Tina. Tina was the smartest, cutest, best dog that was ever laid on this earth, according to my hubbie. HE is the one who wanted a poodle as a dog. He wanted a mini, but we compromised and got a spoo last time because I didn't want a little dog, but a dog that could hike and camp and go places with us. That spoo, Clara, was such a doll and I loved every minute I had with her. This time we got another spoo, but he still talks about that mini Tina.


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## Dallasminis (Feb 6, 2011)

Excellent, Rowan, beautifully stated. My babies are a rescue and a BYB. They are not the most beautiful minis but they have poodle smarts and poodle hearts. As far as minis go, they are compact and a dream to travel with, wonderful companions, great with other people, hysterically funny, and really, part human. As our son says: "You can tell what they're thinking by looking at their faces!" They are our family and our best friends and they fit anywhere. And did I mention how smart they are?.....


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

outwest said:


> ...
> I mentioned before- when I saw some minis that looked like spoos I thought they were absolutely lovely dogs. I don't quite understand small dogs and the desire for them, but that is just me. *What is their purpose? *LOL.
> ...


Bolding is mine

Oh boy. I'm not going to touch _that _with a 10-foot pole.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I was just playing with you. They are adorable, of course. They are just like any other poodle and work your heart, I am sure. Just look at all those lovely faces on your posts. Who wouldn't love those faces?! 

I don't want you guys to think I don't like little dogs. I just don't understand little dogs. I have never HAD a little dog and I have had many, many dogs. Even my current spoo seems small to me and she is finally approaching average female spoo size. I grew up with a large collie and shephard and large black male spoo (although that spoo was my mothers and I wasn't very attached to him). I owned boxers and australian shephards as an adult until I got the spoo for my husband. I had a couple of dogs from the pound, but both were large. I have a large whippet and another spoo. Maybe I should try a little dog some day. If you say that the things I dislike about yappy dogs is all training, it means a small dog doesn't have to be like that.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

outwest said:


> I was just playing with you. They are adorable, of course. They are just like any other poodle and work your heart, I am sure. Just look at all those lovely faces on your posts. Who wouldn't love those faces?!
> 
> I don't want you guys to think I don't like little dogs. I just don't understand little dogs. I have never HAD a little dog and I have had many, many dogs. Even my current spoo seems small to me and she is finally approaching average female spoo size. I grew up with a large collie and shephard and large black male spoo. I owned boxers and australian shephards as an adult until I got the spoo for my husband. I have a large whippet and another spoo. Maybe I should try a little dog some day.


Chagall said to tell you he isn't "little," nor is he vertically challenged. He absolutely_ insists _he's "the perfect package." He's an over-sized mini at 17.5", and an avid hiker. I swear he's part mountain goat! He also has a "cousin" who's a rather petite mini, but he believes her to be one great _big_-hearted wonderful dog for all the amazing therapy work she does at Sloan-Kettering in NYC. He says if you look at a dog for the size of its _heart,_ rather than its _height,_ you would understand the purpose, and all there is to like, about "non-large" dogs. He also says he hopes your husband gets his mini one day!


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## spoowhisperer (Apr 26, 2010)

Thanks for the compliment outwest! Kai's looks have made me a mini lover! Well not just his looks I guess but the whole package.
I would have to also share, I too hadn't ever considered a mini because of looks. Just being perfectly honest. The only ones I had seen or interacted with were long bodied, short legged,yappy, short nose and so on. *NOT* saying they aren't worthy of a wonderful home, but they were not attractive dogs, and I had no desire to have one. Seriously didn't know a Mini could look like a little standard!!! I attended a dog show in Duluth 3 years ago, and saw some of Anne Seppo's Minis and that did it. Really opened my eyes to what I was clueless about.

As far as the yappy stuff goes, Kai doesn't yap, but none of my4 female Yorkies I had at the same time for 13 years did either! I think so much of that has to do with the owner, and what you allow or what your expectations are.

What is a Miniature good for, or what is its purpose? Too many things to list! To have an awesome companion is the biggest deal for me, and any dog large or small can fit that bill.


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

My last poodle was a bit yappy (a male), but I forgave him that and really, it was just his love of life and enthusiasm bubbling through.

Angie is not at all yappy and rarely barks. I would describe her as serene. Two mini poodles, two very different personalities, though both very social and friendly and happiest when I'm home with them.

Spoowhisperer, I feel certain if Angie met your silver-beige boy, she would have a huge crush on Kai. He would make a very handsome daddy, but Angie is on a limited registration and besides, I'm committed to letting only the people who know what they're doing carry on this breed that we all love so much - no matter what the size!


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## rubymom (Apr 24, 2010)

Minis have always been my choice too, although I love all poodles!


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## 2719 (Feb 8, 2011)

spoowhisperer said:


> So glad I ventured into the world of minis, so fun, so portable, so snuggable, less money to feed and general vet bills. They are super athletic and game minded. Oh, and MUCH less time for me to groom!
> I do love my standards, and hope to always have one, but as the years go on, I think a mini or two will be very doable.
> 
> 
> Well seeing as you have both your mini wonderboy and suberb standards can you tell me...are there differences in personality?


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## DonnaM (Aug 1, 2011)

Wow, where do I begin and how do I finish describing how perfect a mini poodle is for my lifestyle. He easily keeps up with my full day hikes/backpacking trips and is fully able at challenging terrain. He gets excited anout learning new things and has been a dream in training and competing in advanced obedience. All my non-dog friends just love how excited he gets at seeing them. Thank heavens he hasn't learned how to drive or he'd get to my friends and I'd be sitting at home alone LOL. Funny how I no longer get invited alone, it's always, "Oh and you're bringing Harley, right? Everyone says that his excited bounding about and seeking interaction makes them feel happy and liked. His playful behavior makes me laugh every day. There's no hair all over the floor, furniture and clothing. I can pick him up and take him into stores that generally do not welcome dogs. No dirty looks from people when I let him run off leash in parks/fields. No problem affording home cooked meals and there's sufficient freezer space to store one month's food. I always wonder how any creature can possibly be so happy all the time, that joyfulness brightens my every day. I made a careful choice when I got my mini, but he so much more of all the great things I was hoping for.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

I guess my confusion rests in this being a _poodle _forum and everyone (for the most part) being knowledgeable poodle owners. It's not like this is a SPOO forum with a sudden invasion of alien Miniature (and Toy) poodle owners. :ahhhhh:

I'm not trying to sound combative or judgmental, but I'm a bit dumbfounded. I'd expect these responses from _non-poodle_ people. I'd expect these comments from the ignorant masses on the street who think my dogs belong in a Parisian salon and are good for nothing else. Based on the posts throughout this forum, it would seem everyone is well versed in poodle lore, history, breed standards, health, and the like. If it (conformation) applies to a Standard, it applies to the Miniature and Toy variety.  And I stand by temperaments (personalities) being very similar, unless the smaller versions are treated like sock puppets and carried around in purses dressed like Tinkerbell. 

So, yes, there are a lot of poorly breed Toy, Mini and Standard Poodles out there,_ but the breed standard is the same_. Is this actually news to anyone? When I researched the poodle, all three sizes came up on every page and I reviewed them all. Maybe I'm just an anal researcher! LOL

Short legs and barrel shaped bodies aren't acceptable in the SPOO, so what makes people believe these traits are acceptable in Toy or Miniature Poodles? Why does it take a trip to a AKC/UKC/CKC dog show to demonstrate that Miniature Poodles are just Standard Poodles in smaller packages (and that Toy Poodles are just smaller versions of their larger counterparts)? I think there are enough pictures of champion line Miniature Poodles (Chagall, out of American/Canadian CH Cabryn Lone Ranger, being but one example) on this website to illustrate this. 

If I judged all dog breeds on the poor specimens I see on the street, I wouldn't have a clue what _any _of them _should _look like. I don't even know enough about German Shepherd Dogs to fill a thimble, but I know a well-bred one when I see it. Heck, I looked it up one day. 

As for not wanting an "ugly" dog, that's a personal choice. I prefer to look beyond the exterior and consider myself fortunate because it resulted in my knowing some _very _special dogs. I don't judge people on their physical appearances, and I apply the same to dogs. (I prefer to judge people by their actions and words.) 

Having said that: Cherish your dog, perfect or imperfect, because s/he is the ONLY one who won't ever judge _you _on your personal appearance. They don't care if you're fat, thin, sickly, a marathon runner, runway model gorgeous or a plain Jane. They'll love you all the same.



> *Spoowhisperer said*:
> *To have an awesome companion is the biggest deal for me*, and any dog large or small can fit that bill.


*Bolding mine*
What if that awesome companion was less than perfect? What is s/he wasn't the most attractive? 

It's a GOOD thing poodles (dogs) don't judge their humans by the same standards, insisting on _only _going to homes with beautiful people. (I hope our poodles don't have their own forum out there on the dognet.) LOL


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## 2719 (Feb 8, 2011)

Rowan said:


> I guess my confusion rests in this being a _poodle _forum and everyone (for the most part) being knowledgeable poodle owners. It's not like this is a SPOO forum with a sudden invasion of alien Miniature (and Toy) poodle owners. :ahhhhh:
> 
> And I stand by temperaments (personalities) being very similar, unless the smaller versions are treated like sock puppets and carried around in purses dressed like Tinkerbell.
> 
> ...



I laughed at the red highlighted statement...I have often thought that there are more SPOO owners on this forum and it becomes the SPOO show here. But I want to hear about all sizes...and I am glad when I read that someone who has always had Standards is just as happy with Minis....glad to hear they have the same personalities.

As for people wanting only beautiful dogs...I agree with Rowan. Some ugly dogs can be the best companions you will ever have. Sure we should breed to the standard but for those dogs that have not been they are just as deserving of a great home. One of my first apricots had liver points and was a big gangly girl...not a beauty queen by any measure...but I never thought ill of her....she was a wonderful companion...a true treasure. I scratch my head at people that want a dog to be a fashion accessory or want it to be swooned over by others when they are walking them. Just enjoy the dog for what it offers you...unconditional love.


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## buttercup123 (Oct 7, 2010)

outwest said:


> I was just playing with you. They are adorable, of course. They are just like any other poodle and work your heart, I am sure. Just look at all those lovely faces on your posts. Who wouldn't love those faces?!
> 
> I don't want you guys to think I don't like little dogs. I just don't understand little dogs. I have never HAD a little dog and I have had many, many dogs. Even my current spoo seems small to me and she is finally approaching average female spoo size. I grew up with a large collie and shephard and large black male spoo (although that spoo was my mothers and I wasn't very attached to him). I owned boxers and australian shephards as an adult until I got the spoo for my husband. I had a couple of dogs from the pound, but both were large. I have a large whippet and another spoo. Maybe I should try a little dog some day. If you say that the things I dislike about yappy dogs is all training, it means a small dog doesn't have to be like that.


Not everyone can have a standard poodle. 
Minis and toys cost less to feed, require less exercise, less space, better suited for apartment living, less work to groom and less money to pay a groomer, you can grab them and just go, you dont need a big car to fit multiple small dogs, they cost less in vet bills (most charge surgureys and meds by weight), most older people cant handle a spoo but still want a poodle so a toy or mini are perfect. There's tons more reasons. 

I dont have a mini I have a toy, I also have a Mastiff and a Anatolian Shep x.
I love having my toy as she is always welcome everywhere because of her size. I can pick her up and cuddle her and carry her around, cant really do that with the other 2. She's not yappy at all, she barks when everyone else barks. 



> And I stand by temperaments (personalities) being very similar, unless the smaller versions are treated like sock puppets and carried around in purses dressed like Tinkerbell.


 I dress mine and carry her around, I also had to have her in a purse bag as that was the only way I could take her on the bus to come with me to work, she still acts like a big dog. 
My Mastiff also gets dressed up, she wears full body jammies with flowers and girly things in the winter as she freezes because she's a wimp.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

buttercup123 said:


> I dress mine and carry her around, I also had to have her in a purse bag as that was the only way I could take her on the bus to come with me to work, she still acts like a big dog. My Mastiff also gets dressed up, she wears full body jammies with flowers and girly things in the winter as she freezes because she's a wimp.


One of my colleagues has a Mastiff and she's _huge_. Do you have any pics of yours dressed in her jammies? LOL Clothing for warmth, ie., winter 'horse style' jackets is understandable. What do you make your Toy Poodle wear? And out of curiosity, _why _do you dress your Toy Poodle up? I understand having to stash her in a "carrier" so you can take her on the bus, but why the clothing?



> *Posted by Outwest:*
> I don't want you guys to think I don't like little dogs. I just don't understand little dogs. I have never HAD a little dog and I have had many, many dogs.


A dog is a dog is a dog, they're all members of the same biological family or _Canidae_. If you understand large dogs, then you understand small or medium dogs. They all speak the same language, regardless of the outer packaging.


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## spoowhisperer (Apr 26, 2010)

Rowan said:


> I guess my confusion rests in this being a _poodle _forum and everyone (for the most part) being knowledgeable poodle owners. It's not like this is a SPOO forum with a sudden invasion of alien Miniature (and Toy) poodle owners. :ahhhhh:
> 
> I'm not trying to sound combative or judgmental, but I'm a bit dumbfounded. I'd expect these responses from _non-poodle_ people. I'd expect these comments from the ignorant masses on the street who think my dogs belong in a Parisian salon and are good for nothing else. Based on the posts throughout this forum, it would seem everyone is well versed in poodle lore, history, breed standards, health, and the like. If it (conformation) applies to a Standard, it applies to the Miniature and Toy variety.  And I stand by temperaments (personalities) being very similar, unless the smaller versions are treated like sock puppets and carried around in purses dressed like Tinkerbell.
> 
> ...


Where to begin....Hmmm, I guess I do feel judged, because I feel as though I must defend. Not really even sure how to explain myself, and don't like the fact that I have to. Re-reading my prior post, I guess I must have given the impression I would never consider anything other than a 'perfect dog'. 

The surprise that I also would be so clueless as to what a quality breed mini would look like, well I'm sorry but it was true. In my earlier post did I not say, "Really opened my eyes to what I was clueless about." ? I was clueless, because I had only been exposed to such poorly bred dogs, and no they did not drum up interest for me. I had 3 AWESOME standards ( none who are well bred or correct) at that time, and had no possibility of adding anything else, so no, I didn't research them to find out the facts.

I did not belong to this forum until I started researching miniatures, to scour any info on the breed and photos to see if this would be a dog for me to consider. The loss of my heart dog, my red standard Koi, was what directed me to think of a Miniature. So my researching _then_ began. If I had not been going the route of purchasing from a breeder, and not spending a boat load of money on a new puppy, then my view on the looks of the dog would have been different. Please don't fault me for going this route, wanting a well bred dog.

From my prior post I probably gave the impression I would never want a dog other that wasn't the perfect package, and for that I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend. I should have been more careful, or even more so should have been complete with my thoughts and words.
The fact is I would rescue a dog who didn't fit the standards. Absolutely!
In fact, when my Koi died, I was so depressed I decided I needed to keep busy and do something good with my time, so I started grooming at a shelter in a town near me. I knew there were diamonds in the rough, and I wanted to help them shine for potential new owners.
I had won a photo contest, and had a gift card to a pet store in which I bought tons of good smelling shampoo and grooming equipment to be only used when I was at the shelter. (didn't want to contaminant my dogs)
That was a very difficult year for me. Had MUCH stress in my home because I wanted to bring home every dog I groomed! NOT kidding!
Handling these dogs, helping them shine, I was attached to so many of them I left in tears not being able to bring them home. I made so many phone calls to my husband asking if I could bring a dog home : ( and "no" was always the answer. He was crabby the moment I walked out the door to leave for the shelter because he knew he would get a phone call from me and would have to be the bad guy.
None of the dogs I groomed were perfect package, but I _connected with them, and knew I could love them._
The before, this was the photo posted on the shelter website

1257868214-l-totty-2009-11-06-063 by maryac58, on Flickr


Toddy before.. by maryac58, on Flickr 
The after

He has a cute face! by maryac58, on Flickr

Toddy after by maryac58, on Flickr

I wanted this girl too...

Next by maryac58, on Flickr

Laney, poode maltise mix by maryac58, on Flickr

My point in posting these photos is, yes, I would adopt a dog that does not fit the standards. I tried!!! but, at that time my husband did not want to add a 3rd dog back into our lives again.

Eventually when he saw I was not giving up, and I really wanted a puppy after much thought and research, I ended with with my mini Kai. 

I did not mean this post to divide people who rescue and those who choose to buy from a breeder. 
Entering a breed into your life for the first time, is an education. Some delve in right away and need to know all, for me it is still a learning process. Right now I am STILL learning what is 'correct' in a dog.

When I said, "_What is a Miniature good for, or what is its purpose? Too many things to list! To have an awesome companion is the biggest deal for me, and any dog large or small can fit that bill._" That is what I meant. However you to come to own your dog, that is a personal choice. But that personal connection, the love and fun, I hope that is something we can all have in common.

Miniatures what ever the looks or size or shape, all have the potential of being the perfect companion.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Poodle love to all, and to all a good day!!


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

spoowhisperer said:


> ...In fact, when my Koi died, I was so depressed I decided I needed to keep busy and do something good with my time, so I started grooming at a shelter in a town near me. I knew there were diamonds in the rough, and I wanted to help them shine for potential new owners....
> That was a very difficult year for me. Had MUCH stress in my home because I wanted to bring home every dog I groomed! NOT kidding!
> Handling these dogs, helping them shine, I was attached to so many of them I left in tears not being able to bring them home. I made so many phone calls to my husband asking if I could bring a dog home : ( and "no" was always the answer. He was crabby the moment I walked out the door to leave for the shelter because he knew he would get a phone call from me and would have to be the bad guy.
> None of the dogs I groomed were perfect package, but I _connected with them, and knew I could love them._
> ...


I'm sorry you felt as if you needed to defend yourself or your choice, as that wasn't my intent. As a rescuer, I'll freely admit to being very passionate about this topic. I also don't mean to divide rescuers and those who purchase AKC champion pups from a breeder, but I just wanted to point out that beauty is subjective. (I've also purchased "picture perfect" miniatures from a breeder, and I respect that responsible breeders keep the breed alive and well.) 

It truly breaks my heart to hear people say, "_Who would want that dog--he's ugly!_" Your rescue grooming illustrates this point. These dogs aren't perfect, but they'll love you unconditionally and they don't judge us on our appearance or even the way they've been treated in the past. They're willing to overlook pretty much everything. It makes me sad to think such dogs are overlooked because, through no fault of their own, they' don't meet some ideal of "perfection." 

I don't begrudge you or anyone the right to desire and own what you deem a "perfect/beautiful dog." This post elaborates on your prior message, and I now have a better understanding of your stance on the issue. I'm obviously just confused by your previous post! LOL You said you had only interacted with "unattractive" miniature poods, dogs you had no desire to own, but now you're saying you _did _want these imperfect rescues. And that alone makes me feel better. 

No harm, no foul. 

*Chagall's Mom*: Can you make the rain go away?!!??!?


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Okay, I know this is blashempy given all the flooding, but it may be a good thing it's raining. I can claim these are _not _tears in my eyes but raindrops, that's what they are, _raindrops._ I am overjoyed that mini poodle love has washed over all! I too just want them all loved and cherished. And now there you poodle passionate people go, doing good deeds and trying in earnest to understand for another and being so poodley wonderful, and then the "rain" starts to fill my eyes...:hug:


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

This is what drives my rescue obsession.

Follow the link to Lord Byron, my second rescue who was hours away from being euthanized in a rural, high-kill Ohio shelter. Nobody wanted him because of his humped back and imperfections. He was the sweetest little dog, and I was devastated the day lost him to a hemangiosarcoma. To this day, I can't talk about him without crying.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6024133674/

And here's the rescue thread:
http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/14817-rescue-stories-please-share-yours-here.html


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I don't really feel I need to defend myself, actually. I have always preferred a nice dog both in looks and personality. Dogs are a LOT of work and become part of the household. I would never want a destructive dog or a dog of uneven temperment. I want a dog I enjoy looking at because I want them around me. My whippet is like a living sphinx, so gorgeous. My poodle is cute and goofy and entertaining and pretty, too. 

In my life I have put a priority on saving money and paying for the best dog I can get. When I go places with my dogs someone invariably says something about how terrific looking my dogs are or what great personalities they have or how well Bonnie fetches or how smart she seems. 

I CHOOSE to have dogs bred to breed standard because I think breed standards are there for a reason. A labrador that can not swim or a poodle that does not prance or a whippet that can not run isn't something I am interested in. This doesn't mean I think everyone should be this way. Thank goodness there are people who adopt pitbull mixes and chihuahua's that snap. Every soul needs to be loved. I just don't have to be one of them. 

At any time I could whip down to the pound and get another dog for very little money. There are hundreds of dogs that need a loving home. I have done that in the past and both times the experience was bad. One dog died soon after I brought it home. The other one was the most anxious, destructive dog I had ever had. He destroyed an entire couch one day! He was a total wreck, poor dog. I never did get him under control. One day he chewed through the fence and escaped because I could not trust him in the house alone. I looked and looked for him, but he was gone. I called the pound and went down there. He never did turn up. I realized how difficult that dog had made my life. That was about 20 years ago. Since that time, I have only bought dogs as puppies from breeders that bred to breed standard. I have been happy with all my dogs since. 

I don't think that is a bad thing. It is just what I choose to do. I pay out the frickin' nose for those dogs and many people can't understand that. Everyone has their priorities in life. My sister in law spent over a $1000 on a purse a few weeks ago yet she thought I was weird for buying an expensive dog! 

At this point in my life I want a dog I like looking at and one I love playing with. I spoil the heck out of my dogs and they give back a hundred fold. I love the way Kai looks, like a standard in miniature. I would gladly pay a lot of money to get that myself. I don't think that needs to be defended.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

None of my poodles, purchased or rescued alike, had (have) bad temperaments or engaged (engage) in destructive behaviours. They were (are) all beautiful in their own ways. I consider myself fortunate. I think it's safe to say that most people want a "nice" dog with a great temperament, whether from the shelter at $60.00 or from a breeder at $1500+.

Rescue isn't meant to detract from breeders and breeding to the breed standard. As I've said numerous times, my hat goes off to all the responsible breeders who maintain the breed standard. It's hard work. What you want to to with your money is your business. Rescue dogs, so-called imperfect dogs, didn't ask to end up in shelters. Thankfully there are people willing to adopt them. Enough said. 

And, _I'm not asking anyone to defend themselves. _

**And now back to what we all love about MINIATURE POODLES, of all pedigrees and backgrounds. You know the ones, those smaller poodles that look just like SPOOS because they share a breed standard.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I think your Alexander the Great is a fabulous size. He is a perfect Moyen size, not an oversized miniature. We in the US just won't say Moyen without rolling our eyes. So snobby of us. I think breed standard is good except for the poodle sizes. We have that all weird for some reason. 

 Yes. Tell me about those little guys. One thing about miniatures is that they ALWAYS look happy. Are they always happy or is that just the way they look?


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

My mother and her family are from England, so I'm accustomed to both terms. Alex was _expected_ to be a miniature so he technically is an "oversized" miniature poodle.  I have no problems with any terminology, from Miniature, Moyen, Klein to oversized. 

Thank you. I do believe _my _ miniature poodles are happy dogs as they want for nothing. They get exercise, love, home-cooked meals, regular grooming and vet care, companionship, my loyalty and devotion (and vice-versa), and a roof over our heads with a nice back yard. They don't have to be perfect, just as I'm not perfect. 

Alex and Pippin have been with me since puppyhood. Brandy was a 14.5 year old, blind diabetic slated for euthanasia when I rescued him. Lord Byron was also scheduled for termination. Merlin, bred from champion lines, was a stud dog for 5.5 years. Did they lead happy lives? I can't say. Did they spend their golden years in pure poodle bliss? Yes, of that I'm certain.


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

In another thread, a member posted a link to the CT. Poodle Rescue, and I saw a cream mini that I wish I could take in. Something about his eyes....I feel like he belongs here with me NOW! However, I don't think I'm presently a good candidate for a rescue, being I have a new puppy.

I don't like to compare a well-bred poodle from a reputable breeder, to a rescue. The former has had every advantage, and the latter potentially few to no advantages. It's an unfair comparison! I could absolutely love a dog from rescue that fell far short of the breed ideal. 

I do, however, take issue with breeders who are not breeding to the breed standards, and are trying to sell their puppies with health conditions, temperament problems, lack of socialization, and a host of other isssues, to less informed or unsuspecting buyers. Now that I'm more knowledgeable, these puppy peddlers are much easier to spot.

I do plan to obtain another dog in time, and will FIRST look for a rescue.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

_


outwest; said:



. My sister in law spent over a $1000 on a purse a few weeks ago yet she thought I was weird for buying an expensive dog! /QUOTE]

Click to expand...

_


outwest; said:


> Does that purse at least have a poodle on it??:crazy:I hope she's half as generous in gifting others as she is herself!resent:


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

minipoodlelover said:


> In another thread, a member posted a link to the CT. Poodle Rescue, and I saw a cream mini that I wish I could take in. Something about his eyes....I feel like he belongs here with me NOW! However, I don't think I'm presently a good candidate for a rescue, being I have a new puppy.


That might have been me if it was in the "I want to adopt in NY..." thread. Was it Tommy you liked? Or Jonathon? I think all the available poods on that page are adorable, but Tommy is squinting at the camera and tugs at the heartstrings. My former breeder sent her few remaining dogs there, and I'm was thrilled to learn they've all been adopted.  

I agree with your assessment about breeders (ones who aren't breeding to breed standards).


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

Yes, it was Tommy <3  

Honestly, I liked them all.... even the mixed breed poodle pups at the top of the page....very different from deliberately breeding a cross for money or to cater to a new trend. These babies in need of rescue, whatever their origins, are already with us... I can certainly see why so many members here are passionate about the need to support rescue organizations in any way we can.

Also, I didn't even realize there were poodle rescue organizations until I came on this forum, though I've rescued cats and volunteered in my local shelter. I guess I can't imagine anybody giving up their poodles! but I see it does happen for a variety of reasons.


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

I took a good look through that web site, and it looks like they have an excellent success rate with placing their dogs, and that the new owners are very happy with their new babies - even the ones who have medical, etc. issues. I am glad, too, that your breeder's dogs were all adopted. I'm sure Tommy will be scooped up quickly by a good home.


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

Chagall's Mom - some of us far prefer to fill our homes and our lives with living things - animals of all types, plants, etc., to anything cold, hard, and fake. Okay, so maybe we lose a little furniture along the way, and a pair of shoes or two.....it's worth it to experience the love of an animal!


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## buttercup123 (Oct 7, 2010)

> Do you have any pics of yours dressed in her jammies? LOL Clothing for warmth, ie., winter 'horse style' jackets is understandable. What do you make your Toy Poodle wear? And out of curiosity, why do you dress your Toy Poodle up? I understand having to stash her in a "carrier" so you can take her on the bus, but why the clothing?


Oddly enough I dont have pictures of her, not even a picture of her in a sweater. I guess it will have to wait for later this year when it snows. 
As for my poodle, why not? It's cute and fun and in the winter when shes in a continental she gets cold, you would too if your bare butt was in the cold snow. 
I usually only dress her in the winter, the odd time I'll throw her pac man shirt on for fun. 

But both my poodle and mastiff wear the same type of jammies, I'll try and find a picture of at least my poodle.


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## buttercup123 (Oct 7, 2010)

The one of her dyed is last winter and the one of her sleeping was last week cause she was wet and cold.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

OMG, *Buttercup123*, she's adorable. Mine wear Land's End Squall jackets in the winter when it's in the teens outside (as they still like to go for their walks). I love those things--easy on and easy off (velcro at the chest and belly like a horse blanket). They also have similar rain jackets, which are more for _me _so I don't have to completely dry three poodles!


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## oceanrose (Sep 10, 2011)

I probably shouldn't respond on this thread, because I haven't been a member here very long, and I am still a new poodle owner.

But - I have to address the statement that minis, or toys aren't 'real' dogs, and if you want a dog to go camping, fishing, hiking, biking etc with, they aren't right.

My pomeranian, who weighs 8#, not only goes everywhere with us, but she's gone on 5-10 mile hikes, run alongside a bike for 2 miles, and will never say she's tired or ready to stop. She is every ounce as athletic, and ready to go as my 70# GSD.

How small dogs react are truly a reflection on their owners, and how they are raised. We do carry her in crowds, because of the risk of her getting stepped on, but other than that she always has, and always will be on the ground.

My decision to get a mini was strongly based on the fact I could easily fit one in the car. And Ramses, is honestly higher drive than a lot of big dogs I've worked with. In my perfect world I have 2 smaller and 2 bigger dogs, but any dog is awesome, fun, and given the opportunity ready to do anything you're willing to let them try.


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## buttercup123 (Oct 7, 2010)

> I don't want you guys to think I don't like little dogs. I just don't understand little dogs.


Just wanted to respond to this again.
If you really dont know the reason why there are little dogs I suggest you go through the AKC web site and read what every little dog was bred for.
Most of them were used for some kind of hunting that bigger dogs couldnt do.
Every small terrier was used for hunting, they could easily fit in small underground burrows where badgers,foxes,rats,rabbits etc live.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

outwest, you are a sizeist. you are in a thread where folks are talking about how much they love the size of their mini poodle and you've dissed them. heck, you've complained about the size of your own dog who is totally within the breed guidelines for a standard as being too small. 
you complain about the AKC guidelines, height/weight/etc ratio of dogs in the ring vs this or that. 
it's getting a bit old.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

I hope y'all will excuse our 'big dog' ignorance. But I can see where OW is coming from. Maybe u Mini owners wouldn't.

I can honestly say that I've never even seen a Mini 'cept in pix here in PF. So . . . for starters . . u can bet that I would easily confuse them with Toys. In fact my cynical attitude is Toys, Minis . . what's the difference? They're all small dogs and I know squat abt small dogs. I wouldn't have one for love or money. I am certainly a sizeist... 

Secondly, ya gotta remember that Poodles now form the base of some 'way high' percentage of *all* small dogs . . . cute small dogs and 'ugly' small dogs. Again, and for us naive large dog people, they tend to be all lumped together. With my friend's Toys, I can never remember their exact designer breed. So . . if asked by someone else . . I describe them as some kind of 'small poodly things'.

And the same thing goes for all the small, fat, nondescript dogs that enter the dog park, walk 20 feet inside the gate, and then sit there and do nothing but pant for the next hour. If I don't know the difference between a Malamute and a GSD, yr money's safe on me having noooo idea what actual breed these homely little dogs are. But there now is a big chance of them being at least part Poodle. So that's who they get *almost subliminally* lumped in with.....sorry.

If u ask me to defend this opinion, I won't. I will not get caught up with reasons for it. Beyond the explanation given above, I need no reasons. Neither does Outwest....


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## DonnaM (Aug 1, 2011)

Where I come from ignorance is not something to wear proudly, but to each his/her own I guess.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

In my world, the word 'ignorance' is not pejorative. It only means 'not being aware of something' . . simply that. I use the word as a synonym for 'naivety'.


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## oceanrose (Sep 10, 2011)

Before I had a toy dog, I had been training for 15 years, putting numerous titles on dogs, and thought I was pretty smart, and really a darn good trainer. 

When my pomeranian came home, 2 pounds at 10 weeks, I realized I knew nothing. Socializing a toy is different, for one thing you have to worry about people with untrained large dogs attacking and killing it, kids squishing it, and people stepping on it. You have to do all of this while not transmitting the fear to the dog. Furthermore, you can rely on any crutch that you might have as a trainer. Put a choke chain on and correct and collapse the trachea, place an e-collar on a little dog, and set it low enough, doubtful. Force a puppy into a position and break a leg. You must be a good positive reinforcement savvy training. Positive training takes longer and is more work, even though the rewards are so, so much better. The world is a scarier place to a toy or small dog, it's already scary to a big puppy, but if everything outweighs them by 100 pounds or more, it's even worse.

I was in no way a perfect toy trainer my first go-round, my pom is too dog reactive, because I didn't get her with strange dogs enough. I also didn't work on handling her while training enough (I clicker trained, and did no positioning) so she can't work if there's a hand on her. But I sure did become a better trainer, and it gave me a lot of insight into how dogs learn and react.

I too hate to see overweight unsocialized small dogs at a park. Just as much as I hate to see out of control big dogs, leaping all over with no manners who make it dangerous for me to take my 8 pound dog out in public. But the dogs are a reflection of the owner, and the choices they've made. What each dog has though, is a huge, huge heart lurking inside waiting for the opportunity to show. No matter what the size, given the opportunity that heart and spirit will shine through. I'm glad I'm open enough to see it in all dogs, no matter what their size, breed, or look, and how much any of those appeal to me on a personal level.


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## DonnaM (Aug 1, 2011)

Countryboy said:


> In my world, the word 'ignorance' is not pejorative. It only means 'not being aware of something' . . simply that. I use the word as a synonym for 'naivety'.


That is why I used the word ignorance....to mean someone is uninformed. I carefully did not intend to suggest that people are too dumb to become informed.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

oceanrose said:


> I also didn't work on handling her while training enough (I clicker trained, and did no positioning) so she can't work if there's a hand on her.


Oh yeah?! I'm about to start clicker training a dog and I never thought of that issue. Thanx! 



oceanrose said:


> I too hate to see overweight unsocialized small dogs at a park. Just as much as I hate to see out of control big dogs, leaping all over with no manners who make it dangerous for me to take my 8 pound dog out in public. But the dogs are a reflection of the owner, and the choices they've made.


Absolutely! I guess that mostly what I feel for the for the 'fat kids' is that somebody should adjust their diet . . or get them out more . . or both!!

My guys would mostly ignore yr little one. Maybe a sniff or two. Unless they wanted to run! Then they'd get a 'chaser'!!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Another thing that makes* miniatures the perfect package*...they don't give a diddly what anyone says about them--_unless it's good!_ The well-bred, well-treated, well-loved ones go merrily along knowing full well good things come in small packages, and not everyone deserves to have one.:aetsch:


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

faerie said:


> outwest, you are a sizeist. you are in a thread where folks are talking about how much they love the size of their mini poodle and you've dissed them. heck, you've complained about the size of your own dog who is totally within the breed guidelines for a standard as being too small.
> you complain about the AKC guidelines, height/weight/etc ratio of dogs in the ring vs this or that.
> it's getting a bit old.


I just wanted to QFT here.  

Big dogs versus little dogs. Sure, we all have our preferences for one reason or another, but a dog is a dog is a dog. They're all _Canis lupus familiaris._

A brief Google search will illustrate what a properly bred, AKC Miniature or Toy poodle looks like. Why is that so difficult a task? I've only seen one SPOO in person this year. Do you think I'm shortsighted enough to judge all SPOOS based on that one specimen? Of course not, because that would be _ridiculous_. 

If you have nothing positive to contribute to a thread about "love for the miniature poodle," then by all means go and start a "Why I love my SPOO" thread. I'm getting tired of the constant passive-aggressive insults aimed at miniatures and toys, and not just in this thread. 

As a poodle owner, I get enough grief from the ignorant masses and don't feel I should have to tolerate it here, on a bloody POODLE forum. I mean, come on? If you have nothing good to say, then say nothing.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_And, so, one has to wonder where the moderators are as things are getting a bit personal here. Hmmmmmm._


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Rowan said:


> I just wanted to QFT here.


QFT???




Rowan said:


> A brief Google search will illustrate what a properly bred, AKC Miniature or Toy poodle looks like. Why is that so difficult a task? I've only seen one SPOO in person this year. Do you think I'm shortsighted enough to judge all SPOOS based on that one specimen? Of course not, because that would be _ridiculous_.


You're being deliberately insulting here. 



Rowan said:


> If you have nothing positive to contribute to a thread about "love for the miniature poodle," then by all means go and start a "Why I love my SPOO" thread. I'm getting tired of the constant passive-aggressive insults aimed at miniatures and toys, and not just in this thread.
> 
> As a poodle owner, I get enough grief from the ignorant masses and don't feel I should have to tolerate it here, on a bloody POODLE forum. I mean, come on? If you have nothing good to say, then say nothing.


I will comment with whatever opinion I have at the time and will always feel to do so . . . in any thread.



outwest said:


> My opinions of minis changed a lot when I saw them in an AKC show. They beared little resemblance to the hourdes of minis around here! Long legged, athletic little dogs for sure! Before I saw a well bred mini my thoughts of them were "Who would want one of those yappy, stubby things?"
> 
> I wouldn't be opposed to a wellbred mini like yours. He looks fabulous. I remember seeing his picture trying to keep up with his big brothers! LOL


Please note that everything in blue is positive. But u took one line in this post *your red* . . . and all of Outwest's other posts . . . and got all in a knot abt it. Since then u've done nothing but force OW to defend herself by questioning almost everything she's said.

Why are u doing this?


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_I have never owned a mini, but I can see all of the benefits of owning a good one as laid out by Spoowhisperer....the smaller package, portable, quicker to groom, etc.

Dianne and I have talked about probably getting a well bred, good tempered mini when we get too old to handle the work and size of the spoo. 

Some of my favorite ones here are Spoowhisperer's mini and Chagall. I have not been very active lately due to demands on my time at home, but I am sure there are others here as well._


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

if i hurt anyone's sensibilities for calling them out for coming on this thread and dissing the subject matter (love of the mid size poodles), sorry. i just felt the "i don't get why people like small dogs" was appropriate for this thread extolling the virtues of miniature poodles.

instead, why not start their own thread and say ... aren't standard poodles the perfect package or whatever? and then list their reasons why.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_I have to agree with you there, Faerie. That just seems out of line and certainly not on topic since the thread is about the love of minis. There are definitely better ways to express one's preference without stating it this way. 

I do believe that posts are not supposed to get personal or inflammatory according to the rules. 

Starting a thread about the virtues of the standard poodles sounds like a good fix for that to me._


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

spoospirit said:


> _And, so, one has to wonder where the moderators are as things are getting a bit personal here. Hmmmmmm._


Hmmmmmmm.... I was riding my horse - and having a darn good time, too!!

This moderator has to wonder why adult human beings can't keep their comments civil and polite without having someone monitoring this forum 24/7?? 

I think most members realize and understand that there isn't a babysitter here every moment of every day reading every post in every thread... that being said, now that I AM here - I'm going to ask all of the members to monitor and moderate their own future posts... I haven't had a chance to read through everything yet, so I'll close the thread for now until I have time to see it all - probably not tonight, since it's 11 PM here now and this adult human being is going to bed!!

G'night!


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