# Calling all tracking poodles!



## lily cd re

If you have any interest in tracking, but don't have a tracking club near you, post here for Q and A. Let's hope for some brags in 2016 too!


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## bigpoodleperson

We went out again today on our own (gosh I miss having a mentor with me). We did several short tracks. The park I know of up here (new to area, so hopefully Ill find more spots to track) was Crawling with people and dogs because of the nice weather! One lady walked right up to my track with her dog, and let him walk the whole track and eat all the treats along the way on it! :argh:

Draco did so so at first. Was more distracted by the treats then helped by them. I did two small tracks there, and then went to a different area. I laid 2 short straight ones in the tall dead grass thinking that would hold scent better, and laid treats every few steps again. Did so so again, again distracted by the treats and looking for them rather then focus on tracking.

We took a break and played ball for a bit (his favorite thing). Then I laid two shorter ones in the regular grass with no treats along the way, but a jackpot on the end article. He did those two perfect!! They were really short, but he actually got the jist, head down and following the track even though he could see the article at the end. We ended on that happy note! I wont have time to track him until maybe Thursday, and then I leave for a week. 

I really do miss it! I hope I can do as well on my own as my mentor did with Riley and I! I would like to start the new guy out right away when we get him, and just bring both with to track. Having Draco go first on the track will help the second dog too (shorter tracks at first though).


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## ericwd9

*Poodle Honors*

I gave Grace some tracking with her early training for variety and interest. I had found (in police work) that one particular standard poodle had a better nose and a more determined attitude to tracking than the GSDs used. Grace (then Gracie) (Ms rather than Mm) was 12 months old. She would readily follow a trail of treats. Now a GSD would quite quickly follow the scent without treats if a reward (game of TUG with toy) was at the end. Gracie refused to follow anything without treats. Intelligence??? Intransigence??? stubbornness??? (Do you think I'm some kind of idiot??) I was a little frustrated. I sidetracked the usual early training and had her mummy (my wife) with a very high value treat (for her piece of bacon) Take the treat in hand and go out some distance (about half a mile in Forrest) My wife took a zig zag path to her hide. On release Gracie ran unerringly direct to the treat! following the zigs and the zags nose down and intent on the _prey_. Now (though I rarely invoke the need) Grace can track her mummy (or another person of note) for a few miles without any more reward than my "good girl" Iwould not know where the nose and determined ability of a standard poodle would place in the overall breed stakes but I do know they are better than a GSD. I have been told that during the second world war (when some poodles were used as war dogs) It was found that they would follow an old scent silently and unerringly, where a bloodhound would bay, make a noise and side track on a newer scent not related to the required one. It was this fact and the "medal of honor" given to one poodle (who had the rank of Sergent) that had poodles being a "preferred breed" for war dogs. Sadly there were not enough poodles for the purpose and the care of their coats was beyond the average handler. 
I was particularly transfixed by the image (passed on to me) of the President of the United States coming to attention and saluting a standard poodle who had the Medal of Honor about his neck (as in fact, as a member of the armed forces, regardless of rank, he was required to do). This poodle (I have been told) was buried at Arlington with full military honors). There have been other dogs so honored. At the time (and maybe now) dogs in the armed forces were given rank and "dog tags" Only two were ever made Sergent I was told.
How much of this is "Urban Legend" and how much is fact, who knows.
Eric.:angel2:


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## lily cd re

Bigpoodleperson I never would have thought to send Javelin along a track Lily had already worked. That is so clever to use the more experienced dog to teach the green dog that way.

Eric I will have to look into the story of the war dog poodle with the medal of honor. My father is buried at Arlington and although I haven't been down there recently I would make sure to find the poodle's grave the next time I go.

I do have some books and other resources on tracking I will post information on them later.


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## Mfmst

Great thread! I am starting from ground zero, lol, so basic 101 of tracking would be helpful. Do you always need a treat trail to accompany the scented item? How long should beginning tracks be? Useful skill for a dog: "find Timmy!"


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## lily cd re

Mfmst, here is a good book (a classic on this topic), Tracking Dog: Theory and Methods by Glen R. Johnson. When I have a chance I will add a couple of other references, just can't put my finger on them right now.

You do need a harness so that once Buck starts really leaning down and forward there is no pressure on his throat. You can start with a regular leash though.

Some dogs will turn this into look for treats, so be careful not to rely too much on them. You can use old socks as on the tracks finds. Scent them by putting them in the waistband of your pants for a half hour or so. Since they will be visible that will help Buck make finds along the track. I would start with a short track leaving a sock on track about every ten steps with 5 or 6 socks then a real find of a leather glove or wallet (also scented). Leave a few really lovely smelly treats (bits of hot dogs) on the final article. Watch for Buck to indicate that he is on the track by how he moves his head. I would encourage a drop at the final article so you have a clear indication of the find. 

This is fun stuff and because it relies on the dog's nose to do all the work it really lets them work in their world.

Here are links to a couple of places you can get tracking gear.

Dog Harnesses and Packs | RuffWear Dog Harnesses | RuffWear Dog Packs | Dog Harnesses | Dog Packs | JJ Dog

Pawmark - Trainer Proven Products

tracking, line, lines, synthetic, tracking dogs, riveted

Even if you aren't interested in tracking look at the Palomine's site. You will see something cool there.


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## grab

I'm wanting to do tracking with Brooks  Have you found any issues with confusion in finding the article (indicating with a down, for example) and the articles in Utility? I'm guessing not, since lots of dogs do both, lol.


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## Mfmst

Yay! I already have an order in for a RuffWear harness. Hope it fits!


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## bigpoodleperson

My trainer used to do that alot at first, start out the more experienced dogs first on the track, and then it would be well worn and scented to help the greener dogs. 

I personally want Draco to differentiate "find" with "track". We play hide and seek, find it games alot where he air scents and uses vision to find something. Tracking is different as I want him to follow the exact path and not skip corners or miss something. I use the command "track it". 

One thing I had to learn (and be reminded of alot) is to be quiet! I use very few commands and words, and actually sparingly and soft praise (unless we come to an article then it is more and party at the end). Just a soft "good boy, track it" as he is going. I found with my old dog the more I spoke, the more it distracted him. The more I talked, the more it seemed like he would tune me out like the adults in Charlie Brown.

Hey, I have a Palomine line! I like it! I used to use a thick rope like line that was 30'. I really liked it and the weight in my hands (I could still feel it with gloves on), but it would pick up burrs and such. When I first started Draco I got the new line and had them put a rivet every 10'. I really like it so far! Hopefully it will be as lucky as my last!

This weekend was beyond nice, but we are now back in reality with 6" of snow expected tonight. Not sure when we will get to tracking again as I leave on a mini vacation/work trip next week.


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## lily cd re

grab said:


> I'm wanting to do tracking with Brooks  Have you found any issues with confusion in finding the article (indicating with a down, for example) and the articles in Utility? I'm guessing not, since lots of dogs do both, lol.


No problems there so far. I have put our tracking bit on the back burner while trying to straighten out utility. I think though that since dogs are not so great as generalizers that there shouldn't be confusion, especially if you give different orders. For Lily "find mine" means go to the pile and find the article that smells like me and "track it" means just what it sounds like it means.


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## bigpoodleperson

We have been out a few more times, and Draco is doing pretty great! This past weekend felt like 2 steps forward, one half step back. It was really windy though and he has never worked in wind. 

I did some straight tracks to warm up, and then did some longer ones with corners. He didn't do the corners as well as the very first one, but he still eventually worked them out which I was very happy with! I even put in a very short track that took us over a small pavement road to get him used to that. He didn't totally balk on it and walked across and found the other side even! Didn't track across it, but my last poodle didn't really nose to the ground pavement either. 

My biggest thing is that he is Happy and excited to go out to track each time! I even brought his beloved (well, any are beloved to him) ball, and after he finished a track we played ball. I can't wait to go out again with him!

I am in need of a new fanny pack though. Between a ball, keys, cell, compass, whistle, water bottle for him, clothes pin flags, treats and a bunch of articles we are running out of space!


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## lily cd re

That is a great update. I plan to do some short straight tracks this weekend to get a refresher for Lily and a booster for Javelin.

Have you thought about a fishing vest instead of a fanny pack? They usually have tons of pockets and sometimes loops that you can clip things too.


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## ericwd9

Grace did some "tracking" yesterday. My greenhouse was broken into and damaged by thieves, who likely thought I had drugs growing in there. Grace was VERY interested and raced around "nose down" and tracked to a side gate. I told her she was a "good girl" and opened the gate. We live in a small fishing village and everybody knows everybody else. I let her out the gate and encouraged her to continue. She tracked effortlessly to a home nearby. I leashed her and went to see them. The adults were not home and away with a health problem. Their young "man" of about 18 y/o came to the door. Even I could smell the weed smell on him. Grace was growling low and menacing. I took the opportunity to tell him what she and I might do to him if he returned. He looked sheepish, head held low and if he had a tail, it would have been between his legs. I will inform his Mom, who is a seriously honest and forceful lady. I live in hope he will become a decent man one day. With a little help from us all, many young men in this village have made a good life for themselves.
Eric


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## lily cd re

Grace you rocked it girl. Tracking really is all on the dog and Grace showed that in spaded. Eric I hope the young man gets his act together.


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## ericwd9

lily cd re said:


> Grace you rocked it girl. Tracking really is all on the dog and Grace showed that in spaded. Eric I hope the young man gets his act together.


Yes Catherine, she surprised me!! We _have_ tracked wallaby together in the forest. They hide in the thick bushes in the daytime. Grace likes to find them and induce deafness by barking in their ears. I actually think, she wants them to play?
Eric


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## lily cd re

One of the biggest problems I have with tracking training is finding places with sufficient space to move beyond basics like getting the dog started and article indication. Since I am really determined to work on this with all of the dogs this year I have been taking various detours on my way here and there to find good spots that I think I can access without getting chased off.

I found some fields in a dog friendly county park that I think I can use, but today I think I hit the jack pot while making lemons out of lemonade. I had to jumpstart BF's jeep to go out to do a quick trip through the food store. I figured I should drive around for a while since it was dead as a door nail (I think I left something on overnight). I got on the parkway and ended up deciding to turn around by getting off at the exit for the Pilgrim State Psychiatric Center. This is a very large property that is now only in limited use (because of the deinstitutionalization of psychiatric inpatients that happened in the 70 and 80s). Well imagine how happy I was to see lots of open space which seems like it gets mowed but doesn't look like it is sprayed to be a clean lawn. I don't know that I will go by myself until I know the vibe, but hopefully I can drag BF out there to lay tracks for the poodles and I will lay tracks for Peeves.

Here's is what it looks like, really boring for most of you but like nirvana to me with a tracking eye.


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## FireStorm

That looks like a great spot! I feel your pain - I've run into similar space issues training a retreiver, with the added complication that he needs to be able to work off lead. The only thing saving me is that I'm near a wildlife management area and I have access to an airport that's not too busy. Too bad you are not in FL - I could hook you up!

I've been following this thread because I've always thought tracking looked pretty cool...in a perfect world I'd be able to do Schutzhund (I wonder if there are any poodles doing that?), but I don't live anywhere near a club.


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## lily cd re

Thankfully with tracking the dog is always on lead and if someone seems skeptical about what you are doing you can assure them the dog will never be loose and will be cleaned up after. If they are still skeptical you can tell them that a dog that is learning tracking is a dog that could then be trained for search and rescue. The idea that the dog would do that kind of work wins most people over. I am not sure about SAR for Lily or Peeves, but I do think about working on it for Javelin if he gets onto tracking well.

I have a friend on Long Island who breeds GSP and they show in conformation as well as putting field titles on them. For the field work he sends his pups to a handler in Georgia. I get your dilemma for training your retriever.

There is a Schutzhund group here, but I am not convinced that they really know what they are doing and a few of the people seem to just be into the idea of having a tough dog. They are all about the bite work and not the other work. They allow any kind of dog to join them. I just think you can't get titles on breeds not officially recognized for IPO.


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## ericwd9

It would be a great thing if we could get the "tough dog" and tough guy image sorted out. If young men had access to rewarding work they might not need to feel tough and encourage other to follow suit.
No tracking here today. Strong wind, trees down, power out, flood tide.
Thank dog for batteries and solar power.
Eric


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## lily cd re

Yes here too aimlessness of disenfranchised and disengaged young men leads to men with too much time on their hands and foolishness about the dogs they keep. It is very sad...

Eric I hope your power is back soon.


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## FireStorm

There is one club I liked, that says you can participate with any dog of stable temperament (though everyone in the club seems to have GSDs, Malinois, and Dobes) but they're over 2 hours away and you have to commit to making it to a certain number of training sessions per month. The time commitment makes sense to me, I just don't think I could make it work with all the driving involved. I really did consider taking Hans to be evaluated when we got him, but then I though I'd just be more disappointed if they said he could do it and I couldn't make it work. So, retreiving is it for us. 


I think it is so awesome that you do so many sports with your dogs. Living in a rural area and working most weekends (I'm self employed but make about 80% of my income on weekends) makes it so hard to join any clubs or go to trials or classes.


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## bigpoodleperson

That looks like an awesome place to do tracking!! I too have been limited on the places I have found to do tracking. My time has been really limited as well lately it seems. I am still super eager to continue tracking though!


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## bigpoodleperson

In the town I used to live (and where I had my first poodle I did tracking with) there was a dedicated area in a state park that was only for dog training. Mainly tracking, but retriever training as well. I was pretty close to my house, and there were so many areas that were fantastic for tracking! They held tracking tests there alot too. I need somewhere like that here. :/


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## lily cd re

So I didn't take any dogs with me today but I did do some work on tracking. The club I am a member of had a track layer certification workshop today.

For each of the people trying to certify we had to make a map for a track of roughly 350 yards (so shorter than a TD, but long enough to get key points across). We then walked the track and added additional information to the maps and flagged the track as a track would be plotted for a TD. Later, we re-walked the track checking the number of steps we took on each leg against the information on the map. We took up the turn flags as we went through the track this 2nd time and replaced them with ground markers. The last walking of the track was one more check on measured pace where we used our counted steps and maps to find the ground markers. To pass this practical you had to return with the correct number of ground markers and the start and direction indicating flags from the first leg. I was happy to pass this as I took it as an indicator that my knee held up well enough that my measured pace didn't change during the day.

In between the 2nd and 3rd pass through our tracks we took a written exam (open book thankfully) of questions based on the current AKC tracking rules as they apply generally and for a TD test. A perfect score would have been a 200 and you had to get at least a 170 to pass (I got a 186). There were seven people working on certifying and although everyone passed their practical, 3 people failed the written test.

So aside from now being certified as a track layer by the club I feel I have a much better understanding of how to plot and lay practice tracks. Now I just have to get myself and the dogs out of the house early in the morning a couple of days a week.


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