# Dog park



## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

I've heard so many bad things about dog parks on this forum and others, that I never thought I'd take Abbey to one. But... We have been 4 times recently and she is doing pretty good, and gets very excited when we drive into the park area. There are of course a few owners and dogs to be aware of (all you have to do is watch), but for the most part people and dogs are respectful of others. My biggest beef and concern, is the people who bring their small children and toddlers and let them run free amongst all the dogs. Not if, but when a dog bites or knocks a child down (whether accidentally or not) it will be the dog that pays the price. There were two little girls there tonight, maybe 4 years old, running, screaming and grabbing at the dogs. One came running up behind Abbey and grabbed her tail, startling her. Within earshot of the parents I told her nicely but firmly, she should not do that to dogs she doesn't know and that she should stay with her parents and her own dogs. Well if looks could kill... Although many people there made a point of agreeing with me privately, no one else spoke up as these children were allowed to continue putting themselves and our dogs in danger. I hope I'm not stepping on too many toes here, but I just don't think it's a place for young children to play.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

you have my vote. how anyone could be stupid enough to think a dog whose tail is yanked on would not turn around and possibly bite is beyond me. it's a dog park, not a kiddie park, for pete's sake. protect your child and your dog by teaching your child boundaries!


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

I believe our dog park has ruled against children under a certain age being in the dog park. Still people don't listen to it. I try to be understanding of some children in the park. I let them hold or pet my dogs for little bit then ask they let them alone. I actually enjoy responsible children playing fetch with Branna and giving my arm a break. But there is always some of those children that are not well behaved around dogs. I think I would be telling that little girl that she needs to leave the dog park as well as her parents if she acted that way. If they had a problem with me saying that well I would show them the rules and then go off on them about how they are being irresponsible parents and risking their child's and more importantly my dogs safety, then request they leave.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

I hear you and agree with you. It is really tough to be put in that situation - and I sometimes want to just shake these parents!

I'm a mother of five - I get that children are very important. I look out for children pretty much constantly every day - taking a little detour around jumpy children when walking Dulcie -- having her sit politely to be greeted by calm children. I always put the welfare of children first, while trying to be watchful so that I can protect Dulcie as well.

When people bring small children into dog parks, it is truly unfair to the dogs-- forcing everyone to be on high alert to protect the children from themselves and from the potential of startled dogs becoming reactive. 

I think it is the best approach to speak up as you did. 

Yesterday, I ran into some children who had played with Dulcie a few days ago (and who were quite a handful, while parents were preoccupied with chatting to friends - in spite of several attempts by the children to get their attention). I had little choice but to supervise and keep children and DUlcie safe, and I was more than a little exasperated by the end. However, I was not actually in a dog park (I was int he green space next tot he park) so it was my choice to stick it out.

When I ran into them again yesterday, the children shouted WE WNT TO PLAY WITH THE DOG AGAIN! and seemed to expect that it would be OK. I steeled myself and said, No not today. I am training her today.

It wasn't easy and the children protested, but I stuck to my guns.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Well you all know me and my mouth - if somebody brings kids in and if I feel in any way they are behaving in a way that is dangerous to my dog, I will say "your kids have the entire to park to play in, this little area is for the dogs to play, please stop"
Worse yet a couple of times I have to deal with adults who think that it is the place to have themselves a game of handball slamming one of those hard rubber balls (with the dog part being that their 25 pound "small" dog will chase after the ball after the bounce) - really, I have to tell an adult that you could kill my small dog with that thing?!


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Isn't there RULES written on a board somewhere at the park? If not, there should be. My goodness, it's not safe for children and dogs if there are no rules, and people don't abide by any rules. Besides that, I always thought a dog park were just for dogs and their owners. I didn't know people could bring in children as well.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Well you all know me and my mouth - if somebody brings kids in and if I feel in any way they are behaving in a way that is dangerous to my dog, I will say "your kids have the entire to park to play in, this little area is for the dogs to play, please stop"
> Worse yet a couple of times I have to deal with adults who think that it is the place to have themselves a game of handball slamming one of those hard rubber balls (with the dog part being that their 25 pound "small" dog will chase after the ball after the bounce) - really, I have to tell an adult that you could kill my small dog with that thing?!


No Balls in dog parks, period.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

Caddy said:


> Well if looks could kill... Although many people there made a point of agreeing with me privately, no one else spoke up as these children were allowed to continue putting themselves and our dogs in danger. I hope I'm not stepping on too many toes here, but I just don't think it's a place for young children to play.


You have my sympathy. I can speak from both sides of the fence here. When me and my daughter used to go to the dog park with out spoos, we would sometimes have her babies with us. My daughter would stay outside and I would have to go in with both our dogs. How a parent could not have the common sense to protect their children is incomprehensible. What a bunch of dopes you were dealing with. The owners in the dog park that allowed their dogs to put the children in danger were just as bad. And then they are going to speak up in private after the fact? What's up with that? 

Good for you for speaking up. How do people just look on mutely when something is clearly not ok? I will never understand that.

pr


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## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

this is such coincidental timing, as I've just had a negative experience with a child in the dog park. I don't think children under a certain age (probably 5 at th youngest) should be allowed in dog parks at all, and that even older children should be with a parent. I think bringing a child at all shows the dog owning parent is going to have their attention divided, which makes the whole experience more dangerous for both the child and the dogs.

Yesterday I had Jasper at the dog park and we'd been there having a very good time (there were several dogs he loved, and we managed to avoid the dog there that I've seen cause issues) and we're getting close to leaving when a mother and her 6 or 7 year old came in with a large Shepard mix. As soon as they were in the gate the dog bolted to the far end of the park (it's a 10 acre space so he was FAR away) and the mother sat down near the gate (back to her dog) with a book while the daughter started kicking around walnuts. Jasper went up to sniff her as I was making my way toward her, and by the time I reached them he'd gone back to playing with other dogs nearby.

and then, for whatever reason, this child starts excitedly screaming "don't chase me doggies!" repeatedly and running in circles. she's laughing and smiling as she does this and the mother glances up once before reading. OF COURSE several dogs start to chase and jump at her, including Jasper. I grab him right away and the mom looks up and tell her daughter to stop, and when she doesn't gets up, takes her hand, and heads toward the back corner of the park where her dog is. I let Jasper go because he's interested in another dog at that point, but the the girl starts screaming "don't chase me doggies" again and Jasper takes off after her. I grab him as he jumping on her and start to leave, but stop and tell the mother that "If she yells and runs like that, dogs will chase her", and the mother replies with "she knows, that's why she does it". All I could say back was "Well, she shouldn't", because verbally expressing my fury would have been too colorful for the child standing nearby. I got several sympathetic comments from other dog owners as I walked out of the park carrying Jasper, some of which were also holding theirs back from chasing the girl.

It just baffles me why a parent would let a child do that. Jasper is too small (now) to knock her down but there were several larger dogs after her as well. One wrong jump and she falls and breaks something, and of course it will be the fault of the "vicious dog". God forbid a dog get excited and nip at her as she runs.

People sometimes :/


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

We have a one (human) bite law in Texas. The dog can be confiscated, quarantined and possibly destroyed if it bites. A squealing "chase me doggies" child inside a dog park would be an invitation for disaster, especially with my land rocket. We would have had to leave, because I couldn't be relaxed for one second with a small child in the mix. And as we are leaving, I would say something to the parent. If they can't see the dozens of permutations for a disaster, I would feel a duty to warn. Hopefully, there would be some printed rules to back me up.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

We don't allow children in our park. But when they do come in, largely due to innocent ignorance of the rule, it's easy for me to reinforce the point.

I will walk over and stand right beside their child. Dogging the child around the park if necessary. *Protecting it from rambunctious dogs - but the parent doesn't know that.* Most of you are mothers, so you would probably know why that always initiates a conversation.

Once initiated... it's easy to take it calmly in the right, educational direction.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I agree that this sounds like a recipe for disaster! One of the reasons I don't frequent our dog park is that too many of the people don't follow the rules. I can't say I've seen small children there, but the place is littered with balls. The last time I went with Lily (Peeves not allowed since he is intact) she found a ball, became obsessed with it and spent most of the time we were there going from person to person to make them throw it for her. If some other dog had tried to take it from her I am sure she would have fought over it.


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## Marcie (Aug 2, 2011)

You were perfectly right to school the child. In fact you were much nicer than me. I just yell "NO" point at the child and say "GIT". It startles the kids so much the children then make sure they stay away from me and my dogs with no more reminders from me.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

The two dog parks that I go to are not official dog parks. They are just parks where people come and let their dogs play off leash. Children have just as much right to be there as anyone else. Of course there is the potential for things to go wrong, and things sometimes do go wrong. But for the most part, parents do a good job of monitoring their kids and dog owners do a good job of taking care of their dogs. Toddlers are generally kept close to mom or dad where they can't be knocked over by a dog. Some families come with dog and kids, and it is nice for them to be able to walk the dog and the kid at the same time. Some dogless families come to give their kids an opportunity to interact with dogs. Mostly, the kids or the parents ask before approaching the dogs. It is great to see kids learn to ask first and to be gentle with the dogs. Poodles of course are great at showing kids how nice a dog can be. But they need to be approached properly and with the permission of the owner.

I definitely agree with you that the small children that were running around pulling the tail of dogs they don't even know were just asking for trouble. I'm glad to hear that you spoke up. 

I know that there are risks when you mix running dogs with children (and with adults). But I get a bit tired of the increasing emphasis on safety in our society. I know that a number of people have been knocked over by dogs. And I know of at least one dog bite and at least one broken leg. But I also know that the local newspaper quoted a dog person as saying that our park is the "happiest place on earth." Yes, stuff goes wrong. But my vote is still in favor of a beautiful big park where dogs run around and play, neighbors chat, and kids are always welcome.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

ericwd9 said:


> No Balls in dog parks, period.



There is not that rule here, but where is the common sense - slamming a hard hand or racket ball as hard as you can amongst small dogs?
A few weeks ago I had to stop some teens from tossing a football the size of Timi inside the small dog run.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Mfmst said:


> We have a one (human) bite law in Texas. The dog can be confiscated, quarantined and possibly destroyed if it bites. A squealing "chase me doggies" child inside a dog park would be an invitation for disaster, especially with my land rocket. We would have had to leave, because I couldn't be relaxed for one second with a small child in the mix. And as we are leaving, I would say something to the parent. If they can't see the dozens of permutations for a disaster, I would feel a duty to warn. Hopefully, there would be some printed rules to back me up.



Not that you want to test it, but I wonder if bite laws apply within dog parks? I mean you enter there knowing that you will be exposed to unrestricted dogs engaged in play. Dogs use their mouths in play and even with no aggression behind it, an injury can occur.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I think it would depend on the severity of the attack and how determined the person bitten is to pursue legal remedies.


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

I'm pretty sure being in a dog park would not protect a dog from bite laws, the dog would be labeled dangerous. We are very watchful of other dogs when at the park, you get to know very quickly which owners are responsible and which are not. Children, even well behaved children in a dog park, makes me very nervous. The only rule posted at this park is "pickup after your dog", it seems the city has provided the land, fenced it, and then turned the other way. I intend to call and get some information on the park next week, it is our only park. I think the no ball rule would be a good one to have too.


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

peppersb said:


> The two dog parks that I go to are not official dog parks. They are just parks where people come and let their dogs play off leash. Children have just as much right to be there as anyone else. Of course there is the potential for things to go wrong, and things sometimes do go wrong. But for the most part, parents do a good job of monitoring their kids and dog owners do a good job of taking care of their dogs. Toddlers are generally kept close to mom or dad where they can't be knocked over by a dog. Some families come with dog and kids, and it is nice for them to be able to walk the dog and the kid at the same time. Some dogless families come to give their kids an opportunity to interact with dogs. Mostly, the kids or the parents ask before approaching the dogs. It is great to see kids learn to ask first and to be gentle with the dogs. Poodles of course are great at showing kids how nice a dog can be. But they need to be approached properly and with the permission of the owner.
> 
> I definitely agree with you that the small children that were running around pulling the tail of dogs they don't even know were just asking for trouble. I'm glad to hear that you spoke up.
> 
> I know that there are risks when you mix running dogs with children (and with adults). But I get a bit tired of the increasing emphasis on safety in our society. I know that a number of people have been knocked over by dogs. And I know of at least one dog bite and at least one broken leg. But I also know that the local newspaper quoted a dog person as saying that our park is the "happiest place on earth." Yes, stuff goes wrong. But my vote is still in favor of a beautiful big park where dogs run around and play, neighbors chat, and kids are always welcome.



That's how our parks are. We don't have specifically dog parks. All parks are family oriented where families and dogs are welcome. However, rules do state that dogs and children must be kept under control at all times. We do have a city leash law, so any dog that is out of the park must be leashed, or a fine will be imposed. 

While picnicking in one of the parks recently, there was a commotion going on a little ways away, and I thought it was a dog fight, but it wasn't. It was two women fighting. I mean they were really going at it, hair pulling, fighting on the ground, etc. It was really starting to draw a crowd. Police were called and broke up the fight, and I believe one of the women was arrested. But the funny part in all of it was, as people were going over to see what was going on, there were three dogs left unattended ( one big, two small), and they were just sitting there very nicely, looking intently at the two women fighting. I would have given anything to know what was going on in their minds, lol. As I was walking back to our picnic table, I overhead someone say, "there should be a rule in the park saying dogs welcome, humans are not". That struck me as funny, lol.


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## Naira (Jan 9, 2015)

Dog parks are not for everyone. I wish there were a camera where I could see which dogs were in there prior to driving there. Naira loves dogs that love to chase, play, tag each other and be goofy. 

Last week we went to the dog park after almost 3 months of not going. The only reason why we hadn't gone for so long is because I found an abandoned field near my house where we could play and that is about 30 minutes closer to me than the dog park. 

Of course there was a pitbull there. I had my reservations about going in but I'd already driven all the way over there and I just decided to go in anyway. I really hate most of the pitbull and bully breed play styles. Some of the biting they do and pulling and dragging and rolling the dog over on their back and ganging up… It's really frightening.

The thing about the dog park is that you have to know when to leave. And when it became too much for me and naira I left. There are a lot of dogs that go to the dog park that really have no business being there. There was a dog park I used to go to in Atlanta and I was warned that there was a pitbull that came during the evening that did not like puppies and would attack them. Why the heck would you bring that dog to the dog park? 

Naira is really good with crazy rambunctious kids and very gentle with them but I agree they probably should not be in the dog park either. When all else fails, I will remove me and my dog from the situation to protect us from the stupidity and ignorance of others.


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## Naira (Jan 9, 2015)

In the beginning of the year a dog was shot and killed at a dog park because the owner did not like the way the dog was playing with his dog. That owner should have left the dog park in my opinion instead of shooting. Dog parks aren't for everyone. 

http://m.click2houston.com/news/dog-dies-after-being-shot-at-bay-area-dog-park/30913058


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## Naira (Jan 9, 2015)

One time I came into The dog park and the owner of a lab immediately came up to me and said my dog does not like poodles. He said his dog was attacked by a poodle one time and now hates poodles. 

After entering the dog park and talking to the owner I realized he did not know the difference between a poodle and a poodle mix. He commented that there were so many poodles in the park that he sees which is false because naira is the only standard poodle that ever regularly goes to our dog park. 

The lab had some initial reservations but ended up getting along with Naira just fine. But in my opinion if I had a dog that hated a specific breed of dogs that was pretty popular I would not be bringing my dog to the dog park. I wasn't going to leave because his dog did not like poodles.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Oh that story about the shooting is horrible!

I think you make a lot of sense - know when to leave for our OWN safety and our dogs' -- and also know when it's fine to be there and let others deal with their own dogs' issues.

The idea of parks just being parks is one I would love to see happening more, too. However, I don't think the momentum in society right now is moving in that direction - but rather the opposite. There are already so few safe places to exercise dogs in the city and when people insist on making even dog-specific spaces child-friendly too (mutually exclusive concepts, folks, with young and unprepared children), I find I do feel resentful.

As I said, I am a mother and I really like children (even those not my own! ) ad I often will take the time to let an interested child play with Dulcie safely. But man it really chafes my hide when I am at the relatively small dog park, next to an enormous humans only playground -- and surrounding humans only greenspace -- and yet people insist on also claiming the dog park space for entertaining their young children too.

It grinds my gears - there is so much for families and children and more being created all the time - while dog-friendly space is being cut more and more -- and yet some people want to have even more and get pretty irate if dog-owners would rather not give up their last few remaining spaces.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Naira said:


> In the beginning of the year a dog was shot and killed at a dog park because the owner did not like the way the dog was playing with his dog. That owner should have left the dog park in my opinion instead of shooting. Dog parks aren't for everyone.
> 
> Dog dies after being shot at Bay Area dog park | Latest News - Home



Just yikes. Crazy people everywhere!

And apparently the guy with the lab who didn't like poodles actually has a dog that doesn't like doodles I guess.


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Naira said:


> In the beginning of the year a dog was shot and killed at a dog park because the owner did not like the way the dog was playing with his dog. That owner should have left the dog park in my opinion instead of shooting. Dog parks aren't for everyone.
> 
> Dog dies after being shot at Bay Area dog park | Latest News - Home


OMG! That's terrible and dangerous! Poor dog. Poor owners. The guy should have been arrested! He had no right to shoot, plus if there were children around, that would have made it even more dangerous. I sure hope the guy was held accountable for his actions!


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Re the dog shooter. It could be a case of a sweet dog misjudged by an off-duty deputy or he may have viewed the Staffordshire as an imminent threat to his dog. If only he had had a break stick or pepper spray, instead of a gun. Of course, then we wouldn't have heard about it. I'm glad no human bystanders were killed or injured and I'm sorry if an innocent dog died. If another dog had a death grip on mine, and I had a gun and knew how to use it, I can't say what I would do. It's open carry country in Texas... Another thing to worry about at a Texas dog park besides balls, leashes, small children and vicious dogs. Who's armed?


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

As always, its the main problems that are on the other end of the leash. What is needed is education. Year 3 school children should be exposed to dogs and dog training. They might then have some respect for the danger of unknown and possibly untrained dogs. In time (3 generations) maybe the whole population might have that knowledge.
Eric


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## spookiesmom (Dec 31, 2011)

I guess in a way, I'm lucky. We go to our park almost every day. But Kris does NOT like kids. Up to about 15 years old. So if a kid comes in, we have to leave. But I tell the offending parent he doesn't like kids, this is a DOG park, and the kids park is up by the entrance. Gee, you must have missed it.


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

spookiesmom said:


> I guess in a way, I'm lucky. We go to our park almost every day. But Kris does NOT like kids. Up to about 15 years old. So if a kid comes in, we have to leave. But I tell the offending parent he doesn't like kids, this is a DOG park, and the kids park is up by the entrance. Gee, you must have missed it.


Yeah really, there should be a sign with rules stating very clearly that this area is just for dogs and their owners. Children may play in the other part of the park, and an arrow can be pointing in the direction of where they may go. 

In every day life, we all have to abide by certain rules. I would think the same should be at dog parks as well.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

ericwd9 said:


> As always, its the main problems that are on the other end of the leash. What is needed is education. Year 3 school children should be exposed to dogs and dog training. They might then have some respect for the danger of unknown and possibly untrained dogs. In time (3 generations) maybe the whole population might have that knowledge.
> Eric


true, eric. but i wouldn't want them trained on my dog - esp. not at a dog park. feel like the professor in my fair lady: why can't parents teach their children like they should?!!


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## Raven's Mom (Mar 18, 2014)

Raven doesn't like kids much either. Fortunately our dog park has more than one fenced area and people tend to all congregate in one or the other so I go to the one less busy. It was a good thing today because a idiotic family came in with three kids and a huge rubber ball like you could sit on top of. I could not have taken Raven in that side because first she would have ripped the ball to shreds and then jumped all over the kids. We played by ourselves on th empty side. It infuriates me when people bring kids, I totally agree with the statement above there are plenty of places for kids, the dog park is for DOGS!!


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## spookiesmom (Dec 31, 2011)

What's worse, I'll grumble about it, and say the KIDS should be on leash in there. Then some will agree with me, and others get quite vocal about allowing the brats in there with free run. I don't think my town would put up such a sign. And those who need to wouldnt/couldn't read it because the rules don't apply to them.


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## spookiesmom (Dec 31, 2011)

My dog park was an afterthought. 10-12 years ago people wanted a dog park, my town is pretty much built out. There was some empty land behind a school, adjacent to 3 softball fields and the Toronto Blue Jays training complex. It also floods every summer. There are signs on the fence Happy Tails dog park parking only. Ignored constantly. So a sign banning kids would be too.


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## Khaleesiandthepoms (Feb 25, 2014)

Let me first say I love kids, all ages they are awesome (when they are not in dog spaces or allowed to run uncontrolled in dangerous situations) but I'm a firm believer in dog parks are for dogs and playgrounds are for children. I own one dog who came from a home where children tormented him so as a result he isn't crazy about very young kids or hyperactive kids, through training he has learned to tolerate them without complaint, but he shouldn't have to get ambushed at the dog park by children when he's trying to enjoy himself. It doesn't help that he's snow white and small an fluffy and that seems to be a flag to children to pull his hair, pick him up and poke at him. Something else I hate is the moment I tell the kid to stop and even when I'm nice about it it's pretty much a guarantee some entitled jerk parent will get mean with me for protecting my dog from hair pulling and chasing by their child. Seriously I am sorry but I do not understand how someone will bring a child in a stroller amongst dogs they don't know or a children barely walking is allowed to wander towards dogs they don't know and stick their hands or face in their face, my heart jumps in my throat because its scary as all heck to see and the parents want that dog dead when the dog has finally bit after having enough. Dogs over 50 pounds running and playing just slamming into the child at a high speed can cause fatal injury.
We end up leashed up and leaving, even though my pack is trained to avoid little ones they always end up following us running and screaming and the parents are always upset when I deny their screaming, running children the opportunity to pet them. As their leader I will not force them into situations that are uncomfortable when I can avoid it. A child about 3 fell over on my small pom when I first adopted him and he bit in fear and pain, he didn't break skin and we immediately started tolerance training w children and I can trust him w children now but no, we avoid kids at the park like a plague now.


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

Khalee, I so agree... I love kids, but a dog park is a dog park, and for the safety of both dogs & kids they must have separate play areas. There's enough to worry about and watch out for in the dogs and owners, keep the kids out.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

In my case it isn't the kids that I worry about getting hurt, it's my dog.
I couldn't believe it once when Timi was the only dog in the park, and a Mom brought her toddler in like it was a petting Zoo, doesn't say a word, just sets her loose.
Of course she heads straight for Timi, falling twice on her way over, so I just scoop up Timi and stand there, and the Mom calls out "no, no, that's OK, you can put her down, she isn't scared of dogs". And she kept repeating it - I finally had to spell out for her that it would not be the best idea for her 30 pound kid to fall on my 3 pound dog. Held Timi for her to pet for a minute or two, and then said "ok, I would like to let her play now, bye-bye"


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

Would some of you with much more dog park experience than I make a list of your "dog park rules". I want to make suggestions to city council and need your input for dog park rules.


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Caddy said:


> Would some of you with much more dog park experience than I make a list of your "dog park rules". I want to make suggestions to city council and need your input for dog park rules.


Great idea!!!


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

This is for our dog park. I guess it doesn't say no children just that they should be supervised closely.


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## Muggles (Mar 14, 2015)

This is the etiquette brochure for dog parks in my city. Unfortunately the people who don't pay any attention to their dogs are the ones who are pretty unlikely to read rules, but still. 

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/a...9061_Territory_Services_Dog_Etiquette_Rev.pdf


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Town Dog Park Rules where I am:

*Dog Run Rules*


A permit from the Town Animal Shelter is required to use the run.
To qualify for a permit dogs must be licensed as well as spayed/neutered with proof of current rabies vaccination.
To use the run, Dogs must wear a collar and tag.
Owners must have a leash and dogs must be leashed on the way to and from the run.
Owners must clean up after their pets. (Dog feces must be picked up immediately and deposited in the designated container.)
Dog owners must be present at all times and in view of their dogs.
Owners should know the difference between play and aggression. (Leash and remove an aggressive dog from the run area.)
Owners must immediately fill any holes dug by their dogs.
Excessive barking must be controlled.
*Refrain from bringing children into the run. (If present, children must be accompanied by and under the direct supervision of an adult.)*
In all cases, owners are responsible for the actions of their dogs.
Dogs must be four months of age or older.
There is a limit of 2 dogs per person per visit.
Professional dog trainers are prohibited from use of the run for business purposes.
No smoking or eating is permitted in the dog run area.
Discretion should be used when giving treats or toys in the run.
 Violators and their pets are subject to removal from the dog park, suspension/revocation of their use permit and/or issuance of summonses under the Town's Animal Control code. For additional information, call: 


County Dog Park Rules where I am:

*OFF LEASH DOG EXERCISE AREA RULE & REGULATIONS *​ Dog owners are responsible for their dogs behavior.​ Dog owners must clean up after their dogs.​ Dogs using the facility must be licensed and vaccinated.​ Leash dogs to enter and leave dog run area.​ Dogs must be under owners control.​ Owner must be present within the fenced area with their dogs at all times.​ Dog owners must carry a leash at all times.​ Dog owners must prohibit digging and fill in any holes dug by their dogs.​ Dogs are encouraged to wear a collar and ID, but no prong or choke collars allowed as they can be dangerous when playing.​ *Children under the age of 12 must be closely supervised by and adult and these supervising adults assume all risk and liability when entering the dog park.*​ Aggressive dogs must be leashed and removed from the dog park immediately.​ Dogs with a history of aggression are not permitted.​ Dogs in heat are not allowed. It is strongly recommended that dogs using the facility be spayed or neutered.​ Violators are subject to removal from the park and suspension of park privileges.​ 

The town rule regarding children is more clearly directed towards discouraging children entirely. The county rule is looser. I think the county is not really going to be held harmless if something happens to a child while at the dog parks.

Neither place specifically forbids toys or treats although the town discourages their use.


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## Greenfoley (Jan 26, 2011)

I haven't read all the posts but I'm at the dog park right now and thought of this thread as I was coming in and took a picture of the rules.


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## janet6567 (Mar 11, 2014)

It is the unruly children that keep me from taking my two to the dog parks. Maggie gets very upset when she hears children squealing. She has always been very protective of our grandchildren and I believe she thinks when they are squealing that they are being hurt. (I have a no squealing in the house rule when they visit.) Neither of my "girls" has ever bitten or snarled at anyone, but I won't take a chance when I have no control over the unruly kids.


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

I agree with you Janet. Allowing young children in is what I don't understand. It seems that young children can go into the park just as long as they're accompanied by an adult and under strict supervision. Well, we all know that the more children are in a group, the more they can get loud and unruly. I just think there should be a "no children under the age of 13 ( or 14)" allowed in, and just make sure there is a special area with swings, etc just for the kids.


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

Ugh, it drives me crazy when kids come to the dog park. The dog park up the street is not fenced, it's just a designated leash free zone that is at the back/side of a larger park. Most of the time, parents/caregivers respect the space and keep their kids away from the dog area, but the dog space is the only part of the park with a hill, and in winter, kids will come and toboggan down it. I can't believe parents are so careless as to think it safe for kids to go tobogganing around strange dogs!!!
I was always taught to act calmly and never run/scream/bike/etc. around strange dogs because not all dogs are comfortable with kids. Is this not taught in school anymore?


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## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

Here's a link to our dog park rules:
http://www.urbanaparks.org/assets/1/6/Members_Manual_-_20151.pdf

Yesterday there was a 2 year running free in the dog park. His sibling (maybe 10 or 11 years old?) was with him while the parents sat on a bench at least a hundred yards away. He was, of course, jumped on by a dog and knocked down. Fortunately he seemed used to it (the family came with two big Weims) and it was enough of an incentive for his father to pick him up, but that could have gone SO wrong if the dog hadn't been as friendly as it was. 

I'm seriously considering carrying a copy of our park rules and a highlighter with me when i go, just so i can hand them to the rule breakers :argh:


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

lily cd re said:


> I think the county is not really going to be held harmless if something happens to a child while at the dog parks.


Even though they have each member sign a waiver?

pr


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

Coldbrew said:


> Here's a link to our dog park rules:
> http://www.urbanaparks.org/assets/1/6/Members_Manual_-_20151.pdf
> 
> Yesterday there was a 2 year running free in the dog park. His sibling (maybe 10 or 11 years old?) was with him while the parents sat on a bench at least a hundred yards away. He was, of course, jumped on by a dog and knocked down. Fortunately he seemed used to it (the family came with two big Weims) and it was enough of an incentive for his father to pick him up, but that could have gone SO wrong if the dog hadn't been as friendly as it was.
> ...


I love this idea about the rules and highlighter. Although, you are dealing with some kind of moron that is either too stupid or too young to have children. The odds of people like this of understanding what they read are not good. This is another reason I don't go to dog parks. 

pr


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Poodlerunner said:


> Even though they have each member sign a waiver?
> 
> pr


Nobody signs anything. Anytime I've been there I've never seen a county official. It is a free for all. The town dog park is next to the town shelter so that one is a better supervised place.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> In my case it isn't the kids that I worry about getting hurt, it's my dog.
> I couldn't believe it once when Timi was the only dog in the park, and a Mom brought her toddler in like it was a petting Zoo, doesn't say a word, just sets her loose.
> Of course she heads straight for Timi, falling twice on her way over, so I just scoop up Timi and stand there, and the Mom calls out "no, no, that's OK, you can put her down, she isn't scared of dogs". And she kept repeating it - I finally had to spell out for her that it would not be the best idea for her 30 pound kid to fall on my 3 pound dog. Held Timi for her to pet for a minute or two, and then said "ok, I would like to let her play now, bye-bye"


Was the jerkstore calling on your cell phone to tell you they are out of her?

pr


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

Caddy said:


> Would some of you with much more dog park experience than I make a list of your "dog park rules". I want to make suggestions to city council and need your input for dog park rules.


#1. No children under 12 allowed.
#2. No feeding
#3. No pit bulls or pit mixes over the age of 10 months.
#4. No benches for people or dogs. 
#5. No intact dogs over the age of 6 months
#6. Dogs must be licensed and vaccinated against rabies
#7 Dogs that have bitten another dog or human are strictly prohibited 
#8 Dogs that display any type of dominance behavior must leave.

pr


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## Khaleesiandthepoms (Feb 25, 2014)

Poodlerunner said:


> #1. No children under 12 allowed.
> #2. No feeding
> *#3. No pit bulls or pit mixes over the age of 10 months.*
> *#4. No benches for people or dogs. *
> ...


I respectfully disagree these two:
While I know this is just a rule some parks have I think asking for no specific breeds in the park is not okay, to ban one breed and allow others I think is usually motivated by personal bias and I don't think personal bias has any place in creating rules that should be fair and unbiased. Every well adjusted dog should be given a chance to play and socialize. 
Also benches besides being a place for folks to zone out on their cell phones or books and not watch their dogs yes sucks and should be discouraged BUT disabled and elderly folk need somewhere to sit as well when they get tired.

The no intact dogs rule I think is valid though I'm not crazy about it personally I have an intact female standard BUT I can understand this one and if it was suddenly a rule I could respect that and not bring Khaleesi, not everyone is responsible with the way they monitor their intact dogs and testosterone pumped males can be feisty.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Khaleesiandthepoms said:


> I respectfully disagree these two:
> 
> While I know this is just a rule some parks have I think asking for no specific breeds in the park is not okay, to ban one breed and allow others I think is usually motivated by personal bias and I don't think personal bias has any place in creating rules that should be fair and unbiased. Every well adjusted dog should be given a chance to play and socialize.
> 
> ...



I too would have a problem with the no bench thing -firstly because 
I could not stand there for an hour, secondly because in the small dog area if people are standing around chatting, with little dogs running around them and between their legs, they invariably wind up stepping on them - I always have to be wary and call Timi off when she gets close to a pack of humans standing around chatting, but fortunately it does not happen often because there are benches and lastly because under the benches is Timi's safe zone - when she is running a pack of 5-6 dogs 2-3 times her size around the park and they are hot on her heels, she breaks them up by slipping under the benches and popping out the other end while they are still trying to squeeze under.

About the breed restrictions I am ambivalent -while I feel the unfairness of it, at the same time, every serious fight that I have ever seen at a dog park has involved a male pit type dog.
If I owned a Spoo I simply would not want to risk bringing my dog into the dog run with a Pit type dog. Sure there may be some that would be fine, and never turn, but no way would I allow my dog to be the test of that, so I guess as unfair as it be, if I had a large dog, I would be relieved to have a run that banned pits.

As for the unaltered dogs, got to agree with that - dogs will act crazy around a female that is in season, and boys will pick on males who are unaltered, so it just makes sense.
But nothing wrong with allowing unaltered females who are not in season - Timi would not have become the great dog park dog that she is had she not been allowed to go to the run until after she was altered at 18 months.


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Khaleesiandthepoms said:


> I respectfully disagree these two:
> While I know this is just a rule some parks have I think asking for no specific breeds in the park is not okay, to ban one breed and allow others I think is usually motivated by personal bias and I don't think personal bias has any place in creating rules that should be fair and unbiased. Every well adjusted dog should be given a chance to play and socialize.
> Also benches besides being a place for folks to zone out on their cell phones or books and not watch their dogs yes sucks and should be discouraged BUT disabled and elderly folk need somewhere to sit as well when they get tired.
> 
> The no intact dogs rule I think is valid though I'm not crazy about it personally I have an intact female standard BUT I can understand this one and if it was suddenly a rule I could respect that and not bring Khaleesi, not everyone is responsible with the way they monitor their intact dogs and testosterone pumped males can be feisty.



Just responding to the no bench thing. I thought all dog parks had benches. No one should have to be standing for any length of time. There are a lot of disabled folks out there who want to take their dogs to the park, and they should have a place to sit.


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## Greenfoley (Jan 26, 2011)

Of the two dog parks we've been to (I think there are actually 4 in town, one I just heard of, have no idea where it is, one I know where it is and have been to that park but have never been into the dog park, one is the oldest in town and I used to take Henry to it back in the late 90's when he was young, the last is my favorite and the most convenient to me), one has a single bench in one of the runs, the other run I have no idea as I've never been in there. The other park, my favorite, also has two runs, one side has a water fountain (with a high bowl for humans and a ground level bowl for the dogs), a picnic table and a plastic adirondack (sp?) type chair. The other side has no water access and two picnic tables. While I don't sit down the entire time, I, too, would not be able to go if I could not sit down. I simply can't stand for very long, walking around is a little better but I need to be able to sit down after a few minutes.

As a pit lover (I know, I'm in the minority in this forum on this subject) and an intact dog owner, I am glad our parks allow both as the potential problems with both and the reputations of both (assuming they are responsibly owned, trained and handled) can only be helped by socialization and being seen. It bothers me to see intact dogs not allowed in training classes because, really, how is it helpful at all to not allow any dog the opportunity to be trained? I do agree no bitches in season but what moron would turn her loose with a bunch of potentially intact dogs anyways? 

I guess it is all part of the same issue of creating rules that are either common sense or impact responsible owners more than the irresponsible owners who probably are the ones causing the issues and probably don't care about/follow the rules anyways.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Greenfoley said:


> Of the two dog parks we've been to (I think there are actually 4 in town, one I just heard of, have no idea where it is, one I know where it is and have been to that park but have never been into the dog park, one is the oldest in town and I used to take Henry to it back in the late 90's when he was young, the last is my favorite and the most convenient to me), one has a single bench in one of the runs, the other run I have no idea as I've never been in there. The other park, my favorite, also has two runs, one side has a water fountain (with a high bowl for humans and a ground level bowl for the dogs), a picnic table and a plastic adirondack (sp?) type chair. The other side has no water access and two picnic tables. While I don't sit down the entire time, I, too, would not be able to go if I could not sit down. I simply can't stand for very long, walking around is a little better but I need to be able to sit down after a few minutes.
> 
> As a pit lover (I know, I'm in the minority in this forum on this subject) and an intact dog owner, I am glad our parks allow both as the potential problems with both and the reputations of both (assuming they are responsibly owned, trained and handled) can only be helped by socialization and being seen. It bothers me to see intact dogs not allowed in training classes because, really, how is it helpful at all to not allow any dog the opportunity to be trained? I do agree no bitches in season but what moron would turn her loose with a bunch of potentially intact dogs anyways?
> 
> I guess it is all part of the same issue of creating rules that are either common sense or impact responsible owners more than the irresponsible owners who probably are the ones causing the issues and probably don't care about/follow the rules anyways.



Isn't it true that neutered males will start fights with unaltered males? I have a neighbor with a very docile Mastiff who told me that she had to have him neutered because all of the neutered males kept attacking him (we don't have the must be altered rule here).
Since the majority are neutered, seems like no intact males would be the fairest rule.


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## Greenfoley (Jan 26, 2011)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Isn't it true that neutered males will start fights with unaltered males? I have a neighbor with a very docile Mastiff who told me that she had to have him neutered because all of the neutered males kept attacking him (we don't have the must be altered rule here).
> Since the majority are neutered, seems like no intact males would be the fairest rule.


We have had in our house up to two intact males at the same time (currently - 10yr old Bilal and 10month old Linus), up to 3 intact females (Akita, border collie/lab and chi/dachshund), an intact male (Bilal) and a neutered male (Mini Schnauzer, henry). One of the bitches (Akita) was completely dog aggressive, could only be with Bilal. The other two bitches were together along with the neutered male and Bilal floated between hanging out with the trio or with the dog aggressive intact bitch. We never had problems with the males at all. In Henry's 14 years we were around a LOT of other dogs including dog parks, out on the town, we lived in a vet clinic/boarding kennel for a while, I fostered for a rescue group, with my mom for a while with her dogs, on a farm with many other dogs, etc. I never noticed any difference in his treatment of intact vs neutered males. With Linus and Bilal we've never noticed other dogs treat them any differently than any of the other dogs around us. I don't recall any of the dogs I worked with necessarily treated any differently by any of the other dogs based on testicles or a lack thereof. I mean, sure, there are always dogs that take a dislike to another dog for no obvious reason but on a large enough scale to say his reproductive status is the reason? No, not in my experience.


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## Greenfoley (Jan 26, 2011)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Since the majority are neutered, seems like no intact males would be the fairest rule.


IMO the fairest rule is no exclusions, if your dog causes a problem, he or she must leave. Period.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Peeves (intact) has been attacked by neutered males a couple of times, not at dog parks since he isn't welcome, but in my neighborhood.


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## Dreamboy (Aug 29, 2015)

*children are too small for dogs parks*

A few weeks ago, I was at the park with my spoo. I was watching him play with a lab. Suddenly, I was sent in the air by a boxer running at full speed towards me. He never stopped or attempted to go around. I fell flat on my face and thought for a minute that my hip was broken. I am an adult and I weigh 130 lbs. I ended up with a sprained knee and ankle. I can just imagine what could have happened to a child. As a matter of fact, the owner had a toddler with him in the middle of the park. It shows very poor judgment. I now stand by the fence when we go to the park.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

Greenfoley said:


> IMO the fairest rule is no exclusions, if your dog causes a problem, he or she must leave. Period.


what about when a "problem" immediately results in injury or death? years ago i showed up with my dogs at a dog park and there was a man going from owner to owner of small dogs telling people his yorkie had been killed a few days before in the park by a pit bull. quite a bit later, i walked in one day with my dog and two dogs came charging down the hill and bowled him over. i had never heard my dog scream before. i yelled at the dogs and the owner of one of the dogs came over and tried to tell me i was out of line and only she gave her dog orders. yeah, right. her dog was running around the park growling at other dogs and she didn't get it.

so, no, i don't think any dog - or any owner - should be able to enter a dog park. irresponsible owners don't belong there and neither do their dogs. too many people take their dogs to the park for the same reason they take their children to "playtime" or "child care" - they want relief from the responsibility involved in having a child or a pet.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Dreamboy said:


> A few weeks ago, I was at the park with my spoo. I was watching him play with a lab. Suddenly, I was sent in the air by a boxer running at full speed towards me. He never stopped or attempted to go around. I fell flat on my face and thought for a minute that my hip was broken. I am an adult and I weigh 130 lbs. I ended up with a sprained knee and ankle. I can just imagine what could have happened to a child. As a matter of fact, the owner had a toddler with him in the middle of the park. It shows very poor judgment. I now stand by the fence when we go to the park.



How horrible! I tell you, I am glad that I have small dogs - I look over at the big dog side and I don't think that I could handle that!
How did the owner of the Boxer respond?


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

patk said:


> what about when a "problem" immediately results in injury or death? years ago i showed up with my dogs at a dog park and there was a man going from owner to owner of small dogs telling people his yorkie had been killed a few days before in the park by a pit bull. quite a bit later, i walked in one day with my dog and two dogs came charging down the hill and bowled him over. i had never heard my dog scream before. i yelled at the dogs and the owner of one of the dogs came over and tried to tell me i was out of line and only she gave her dog orders. yeah, right. her dog was running around the park growling at other dogs and she didn't get it.
> 
> so, no, i don't think any dog - or any owner - should be able to enter a dog park. irresponsible owners don't belong there and neither do their dogs. too many people take their dogs to the park for the same reason they take their children to "playtime" or "child care" - they want relief from the responsibility involved in having a child or a pet.



Very true - who is the arbitrator of which dogs are problematic and should leave?! Responsible dog savvy folks like us are often going to have different views on that than novices!
In an ideal world, all dog parks should have trained monitors, and there should be at least 5-6 separate areas for different sizes and temperaments, but since that isn't likely to happen, the rules should attempt to eliminate as many problems as can generally be anticipated. And like I said, every serious fight that I have ever seen involved one or more male pit type dogs...


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## Dreamboy (Aug 29, 2015)

*how did the owner react?*



Tiny Poodles said:


> How horrible! I tell you, I am glad that I have small dogs - I look over at the big dog side and I don't think that I could handle that!
> How did the owner of the Boxer respond?


He asked me if this happened to me often, as if I go to the dogs park and fall on my face every Sunday. I am still limping. We have not seen him since...


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## CoffeeN'Cream (Sep 14, 2015)

I dont take Misha to the dog park often any more but used to when he was younger. Misha's favorite playmates were always the pitts. He would always get very excited when he saw one because they would play tag with him. The only breeds we ever had issues with were the labs and boxers. In our area we have mostly labs, boxers, heelers, border collies, pitts, and chihuahuas. 

Im pretty sure the reason so many labs are untrained and very unruly here is because people hear they are great family dogs so assume that means they dont require ANY training, and a lot of people have them for outside only pets, so naturally the dogs have no idea how to behave. The pitts around here are usually inside companions and are usually trained so seem much calmer than the labs. The boxers around here are just full of energy and beans and dont seem to speak dog so dont know when they are pushing it. I really think its cultural thing here. 

I completely agree that there should be no kids allowed in a dog park under 12. Dog parks should be an escape for both the dogs and owners from havimg to tip toe around kids and non dog people, plus its just unsafe. I completely trust Misha with kids, but dont trust kids that arent my own with him or any other dog.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

Tiny Poodles said:


> And like I said, every serious fight that I have ever seen involved one or more male pit type dogs...


The ones I've seen have mostly been small terriers or cattle dog types. There are quite a few pits and pit mixes who come to my local park, but they're more likely to have pent-up energy issues (like bowling people over and not knowing their own strength) than outright aggression. I still keep a good eye on them, but it's the little terriers who seem super playful and then suddenly switch to snarling/snapping/biting that really make me nervous.


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## Khaleesiandthepoms (Feb 25, 2014)

To be honest I tend to see the huskies and shepherds and labs getting 'scrappy' more than other breeds at the park, the pits tend to be goofy silly things, my poodle loves running with the pitties.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Khaleesiandthepoms said:


> To be honest I tend to see the huskies and shepherds and labs getting 'scrappy' more than other breeds at the park, the pits tend to be goofy silly things, my poodle loves running with the pitties.



Scrappy yes, but all of the serious, injurious fights that I have seen have involved pitties.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

lisasgirl said:


> The ones I've seen have mostly been small terriers or cattle dog types. There are quite a few pits and pit mixes who come to my local park, but they're more likely to have pent-up energy issues (like bowling people over and not knowing their own strength) than outright aggression. I still keep a good eye on them, but it's the little terriers who seem super playful and then suddenly switch to snarling/snapping/biting that really make me nervous.



Yes, those guys can be a problem over on the small dog side, but small dogs are oh so much easier to break up than big dogs.


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## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

I think all breeds can have problem dogs, but the real issue comes down to their owners who don't train them, and not to the genetics of breeding and the way the dog looks on the outside. It's simply coincidence (and trends in dog ownership) that cause us to think poorly of one breed over another. 

A reporting system, with which dog park users can anonymously submit the names/info of people casing issues would go a long way in a lot of parks I think. If the problem person is a registered dog they can be contacted, and if they're not perhaps a city official can come by more frequently and do sweeps for registration on the dogs. (Obviously that only works if the dog parks where you all are require registration like ours does.)


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

imo, a reporting system unaccompanied by effective enforcement will fail; i say this based on having just rewritten the house rules for my condo association and finding that at least one board member seemed to think that just writing a rule meant the problem was "fixed." hah! without enforcement, rules fail. the best system would require owners to ensure that their dogs have something like a cgc before they could be admitted to a park not restricted soley to puppies - at least then there would be some evidence of training of both the owner and the dog. short of that, competent park monitors are one's best bet. problem is they cannot forestall unforeseen attacks.


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

After many phone calls and being passed from person to person, it seems the dog park rule board was defaced and the new one was in the works. Well, it showed up yesterday and is such a joke and not one mention about children, it basically says leash your dog on the way in and out, all dogs should be vaccinated, licensed and tags visible, and if your dog becomes aggressive you should emmidiately leash your dog and leave the park. Also yesterday, Abbey had the run put on her by a very large dog that appeared to be a black lab/pit bull cross. My fault, I saw that dog do the same thing to another dog minutes before Abbey and should have got her out of there right away. After yelling "who owns that dog" a woman came over (Timies in hand) saying "I don't know what's the matter with him today, he's usually really good with other dogs". Well, she leashed her dog and left but the damage was done, Abbey was scared of every dog that came near so we left. Not sure if we'll try it again, there have been lots of positives for her there, great dogs and responsible people, but it only takes one and the rules have no teeth. So instead of going to the outdoor park today we went to the indoor dog social, they charge $5.00 for the hour and have a large indoor space. We've gone here before mostly during the winter, they also do training classes, doggie daycare and grooming. Today when we went we hesitated as there was a woman watching with a pitbull, the dog was agitated and she was trying to control him with a prong collar, never a good sign. The lady behind the desk said "don't worry, she won't be taking him in they are just watching to get him use to other dogs" so we paid and went in. Everything was great for 15 minutes and then they brought the pitbull in with a wire muzzle on and said "don't worry he can't hurt anyone". The pit got a nail caught in the wire muzzle trying to take it off and then attacked a golden pup (10 mths) Abbey had been playing with. The pitbull couldn't bite the pup, but plowed it right through the fence gate surrounding the play area. That was it for us, Abbey was by me feet, my husband through me the leash and we got the heck out of there. Not a lot of our friends and family that live close by have dogs, so we try to give Abbey some playtime with other dogs, but these are not positive experiences.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Caddy said:


> After many phone calls and being passed from person to person, it seems the dog park rule board was defaced and the new one was in the works. Well, it showed up yesterday and is such a joke and not one mention about children, it basically says leash your dog on the way in and out, all dogs should be vaccinated, licensed and tags visible, and if your dog becomes aggressive you should emmidiately leash your dog and leave the park. Also yesterday, Abbey had the run put on her by a very large dog that appeared to be a black lab/pit bull cross. My fault, I saw that dog do the same thing to another dog minutes before Abbey and should have got her out of there right away. After yelling "who owns that dog" a woman came over (Timies in hand) saying "I don't know what's the matter with him today, he's usually really good with other dogs". Well, she leashed her dog and left but the damage was done, Abbey was scared of every dog that came near so we left. Not sure if we'll try it again, there have been lots of positives for her there, great dogs and responsible people, but it only takes one and the rules have no teeth. So instead of going to the outdoor park today we went to the indoor dog social, they charge $5.00 for the hour and have a large indoor space. We've gone here before mostly during the winter, they also do training classes, doggie daycare and grooming. Today when we went we hesitated as there was a woman watching with a pitbull, the dog was agitated and she was trying to control him with a prong collar, never a good sign. The lady behind the desk said "don't worry, she won't be taking him in they are just watching to get him use to other dogs" so we paid and went in. Everything was great for 15 minutes and then they brought the pitbull in with a wire muzzle on and said "don't worry he can't hurt anyone". The pit got a nail caught in the wire muzzle trying to take it off and then attacked a golden pup (10 mths) Abbey had been playing with. The pitbull couldn't bite the pup, but plowed it right through the fence gate surrounding the play area. That was it for us, Abbey was by me feet, my husband through me the leash and we got the heck out of there. Not a lot of our friends and family that live close by have dogs, so we try to give Abbey some playtime with other dogs, but these are not positive experiences.



Geez, what kind of supervised play group is that? I would have blasted the people who work there for letting that dog in!


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Caddy said:


> After many phone calls and being passed from person to person, it seems the dog park rule board was defaced and the new one was in the works. Well, it showed up yesterday and is such a joke and not one mention about children, it basically says leash your dog on the way in and out, all dogs should be vaccinated, licensed and tags visible, and if your dog becomes aggressive you should emmidiately leash your dog and leave the park. Also yesterday, Abbey had the run put on her by a very large dog that appeared to be a black lab/pit bull cross. My fault, I saw that dog do the same thing to another dog minutes before Abbey and should have got her out of there right away. After yelling "who owns that dog" a woman came over (Timies in hand) saying "I don't know what's the matter with him today, he's usually really good with other dogs". Well, she leashed her dog and left but the damage was done, Abbey was scared of every dog that came near so we left. Not sure if we'll try it again, there have been lots of positives for her there, great dogs and responsible people, but it only takes one and the rules have no teeth. So instead of going to the outdoor park today we went to the indoor dog social, they charge $5.00 for the hour and have a large indoor space. We've gone here before mostly during the winter, they also do training classes, doggie daycare and grooming. Today when we went we hesitated as there was a woman watching with a pitbull, the dog was agitated and she was trying to control him with a prong collar, never a good sign. The lady behind the desk said "don't worry, she won't be taking him in they are just watching to get him use to other dogs" so we paid and went in. Everything was great for 15 minutes and then they brought the pitbull in with a wire muzzle on and said "don't worry he can't hurt anyone". The pit got a nail caught in the wire muzzle trying to take it off and then attacked a golden pup (10 mths) Abbey had been playing with. The pitbull couldn't bite the pup, but plowed it right through the fence gate surrounding the play area. That was it for us, Abbey was by me feet, my husband through me the leash and we got the heck out of there. Not a lot of our friends and family that live close by have dogs, so we try to give Abbey some playtime with other dogs, but these are not positive experiences.


Poor Abbey. I'm so sorry for the bad experiences. It seems like all it takes it one bad thing to go wrong, and then it ruins it for so many others. 

I wonder if the time of day might make a difference in how many dogs are in the park. Such as earlier in the day instead of afternoons. I don't know if that would even make a difference or not, but it's just a thought.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

patk said:


> imo, a reporting system unaccompanied by effective enforcement will fail; i say this based on having just rewritten the house rules for my condo association and finding that at least one board member seemed to think that just writing a rule meant the problem was "fixed." hah! without enforcement, rules fail. the best system would require owners to ensure that their dogs have something like a cgc before they could be admitted to a park not restricted soley to puppies - at least then there would be some evidence of training of both the owner and the dog. short of that, competent park monitors are one's best bet. problem is they cannot forestall unforeseen attacks.



Well a CGC would rule out Timi - she does not want strangers to put their hands on her fluffy little body, and I like it like that - it keeps her safer in intensely crowded NYC! 
I vote for competent park monitors and a park pass system that would evaluate your dog's behavior before a pass is issued!
If such a park existed around here I would gladly pay to be a member!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Ian Dunbar often talks about private members only dog parks.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> Ian Dunbar often talks about private members only dog parks.



Where are they, I want to move there!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

It's funny really, I've often told people with so-called problem dogs to come in, meet Tonka. Tonka is a big boy, he's seen all kinds of dogs... good and bad, He's been there, done that... whatever happens he can handle it.

Most of the time, their dog turns out to be no problem at all. Just imaginary.


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Countryboy said:


> It's funny really, I've often told people with so-called problem dogs to come in, meet Tonka. Tonka is a big boy, he's seen all kinds of dogs... good and bad, He's been there, done that... whatever happens he can handle it.
> 
> Most of the time, their dog turns out to be no problem at all. Just imaginary.


Good for you and Tonka! And I agree, most of the time, there isn't a problem. I agree also of what someone else said, I think park monitors would be a great help. All Parks and Rec. has to do is hire people to work in shifts, just to go around and supervise. We all know that young people, who have just graduated from high school, are looking for jobs.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

TrixieTreasure i agree with you, that gives the young person responsibility and is very helpful. I would have no problem paying a membership to cover the expense, if someone was there to monitor the park


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

No matter how much bad press they receive and no matter how much real information and evidence is out there, you will never convince pit-bull owners that their dog is dangerous. Then there are those who know they are and like it that way.
Eric


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

After we had Ourselves & Abbey out of there I felt sorry for that lady, she obviously loves her dog and is trying to make things better for them both. I just don't believe that is going to happen for her or the dog, sad really, but I'm beginning to believe a pitbull, is a pitbull, is a Pitbull.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Countryboy said:


> It's funny really, I've often told people with so-called problem dogs to come in, meet Tonka. Tonka is a big boy, he's seen all kinds of dogs... good and bad, He's been there, done that... whatever happens he can handle it.
> 
> Most of the time, their dog turns out to be no problem at all. Just imaginary.


Countryboy, it seems like a difference could be you may be meeting people already concerned up front about their dogs. So many with the bully breeds seem to assume all is and will be well and that their poor dogs are being discriminated against. In this case Caddy's play group 'organizers' did a lot of assuming as well. What they did was almost criminal.

Would your group have turned this Pit Bull loose in your local dog park?

I don't hate all Pits. There are some nice ones. I'm sensible about Pit Bulls. Have to be; they are maybe 60% of the dogs I see around town. Bad Rap is local to me. But taking out one like this who is already over his limit, not being able to fully control it, and then putting on a muzzle (likely for the first time), and turning it loose with other dogs? Oh hexx no. Not where my dog is. I believe if someone wants to experiment as was done with this pay-to-play group, it should ONLY be done with fully informed and willing participants.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Caddy said:


> After we had Ourselves & Abbey out of there I felt sorry for that lady, she obviously loves her dog and is trying to make things better for them both. I just don't believe that is going to happen for her or the dog, sad really, but I'm beginning to believe a pitbull, is a pitbull, is a Pitbull.


I can surely see where you are coming from, Caddy. I feel bad for the owner too, because she was sold a bill of goods somewhere along the line, plus she doesn't have a proper mentor to help her manage her dog in a way s/he can be safe.

So sorry both your outings were spoiled . Soft kisses for Abbey.


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

I have never taken the stance that all pit bulls are bad, in fact found it to be very discrimatory, but I must admit to being increasingly more afraid (yes afraid) of pit bulls and pit bull mixes. We took Abbey to the outdoor park again today, mostly So she would associate happy memories with it, knowing we would not take her in if it didn't feel right. Turns out we went at a great time, lots of friendly well adjusted dogs and responsible owners. There was a young couple there with the most adorable 4 month old pit bull, beautiful dog, sweet, happy little guy, but I just couldn't help remembering the one from yesterday and thinking "what will he be like in 10 months"!?! They said the breeder told them if you treat them right, and lovingly, they will never be a risk to anyone...


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## Raven's Mom (Mar 18, 2014)

Lily, you are right about the membership parks...we belong to a membership dog park by my mothers's house in KY and its sooo much nicer! It's $35 a year and requires proof of vaccination, county registration and alteration. Most folks there are really on top of things. Kids must be over 10 to enter and I've never had a problem with kids there. 

By contrast, we go to an open community dog park near my house with no membership and have had various issues with dogs and kids. Pitts and "bully" breeds are prohibited because it happens to be in a city where it is illegal to own them. That doesn't stop people by a long shot, we see them in there fairly often. It scares me because I figure if they don't mind breaking the law why should I believe they are nice dogs and/or well trained enough to be with my dog?


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

I would absolutely love to pay for a regulated dog park, sign me up!


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

Park monitors, membership, etc. sounds to me more like dog daycare than the typical dog park. All the dogs are temperament tested, then allowed to show up on a drop-in basis based on either a per-visit or monthly fee, and there are always volunteers around to keep an eye on things. Of course, the dogs are typically there for several hours and the owners aren't present. But I find the similarities interesting. 

I wish that more trainers offered adult play groups - it seems like you can only find them for puppies, but it would be nice to have a park/play environment that's populated with adult dogs who you know have had some training and can handle themselves around other dogs. It would be nice if more training schools and obedience clubs would offer play sessions on the weekends or something.

I do think that bans based on temperament/behavior rather than breed make the most sense. Archie has some great dog friends that are pits and pit mixes, and they play nicely with him even though he's a fraction of their size. At least in my area, the tendency to be untrained has more to do with their widespread availability compared to other types of dogs. Like I said, though, cattle dogs have been much more dangerous in my experience. And I love cattle dogs - they're just tough and tend to use biting/nipping to get what they want (since it's their herding style), so they can get a bit scary if they're not trained and handled well. And the only dogs Archie's ever fought with have been terriers and one lab mix.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

glorybeecosta said:


> TrixieTreasure i agree with you, that gives the young person responsibility and is very helpful. I would have no problem paying a membership to cover the expense, if someone was there to monitor the park



A young person lol? You need an experienced adult who is extraordinarily dog savvy and has a high level of people skills - folks can get awful testy when being told that their precious baby is causing trouble and needs to leave! And not just any kid would even understand which dog has the problem behavior!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

lisasgirl said:


> Park monitors, membership, etc. sounds to me more like dog daycare than the typical dog park. All the dogs are temperament tested, then allowed to show up on a drop-in basis based on either a per-visit or monthly fee, and there are always volunteers around to keep an eye on things. Of course, the dogs are typically there for several hours and the owners aren't present. But I find the similarities interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There used to be a place like that here in the city, and there is currently one like that on Long Island. Unfortunately the LI one does not seem to have a separate area for small dogs, or Timi and I would be on the railroad going there!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Caddy said:


> After we had Ourselves & Abbey out of there I felt sorry for that lady, she obviously loves her dog and is trying to make things better for them both. I just don't believe that is going to happen for her or the dog, sad really, but I'm beginning to believe a pitbull, is a pitbull, is a Pitbull.



Yes I felt really sorry for the little old lady with the hyper young pit that was jumping up and snapping at Timi in a class - all she could do was talk about how adorable Timi was and how all of hr friends had tiny dogs like hr. So what the heck was she doing with a hyper, snappy Pitt that she could barely hold onto? She was in tears when the instructor told her she couldn't come back to class, would have to take private lessons. But what are you going to do? She would probably cry more if her dog had caught Timi and killed her....


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

ericwd9 said:


> No matter how much bad press they receive and no matter how much real information and evidence is out there, you will never convince pit-bull owners that their dog is dangerous. Then there are those who know they are and like it that way.
> Eric



That is why they need to be banned.


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Raven's Mom said:


> Lily, you are right about the membership parks...we belong to a membership dog park by my mothers's house in KY and its sooo much nicer! It's $35 a year and requires proof of vaccination, county registration and alteration. Most folks there are really on top of things. Kids must be over 10 to enter and I've never had a problem with kids there.
> 
> By contrast, we go to an open community dog park near my house with no membership and have had various issues with dogs and kids. Pitts and "bully" breeds are prohibited because it happens to be in a city where it is illegal to own them. That doesn't stop people by a long shot, we see them in there fairly often. It scares me because I figure if they don't mind breaking the law why should I believe they are nice dogs and/or well trained enough to be with my dog?



I think a dog membership park is the way to go. And $35 a year ( or around that) is a small price to pay in order to have better peace of mind. I would think cities all over the Country would do that.


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

glorybeecosta said:


> TrixieTreasure i agree with you, that gives the young person responsibility and is very helpful. I would have no problem paying a membership to cover the expense, if someone was there to monitor the park


Yep, and it also gives the person responsibility and it would be perfect for those who are thinking of going into the veterinary field of medicine, dog grooming, or even a dog walker. 

When we say, "young person", we're not talking about a kid. Heaven's no. We're talking about someone who is out of high school, and who is responsible in taking charge of things. One doesn't 'need to be' an experienced adult who is dog savvy. It does take, of course, someone who is able to handle difficult situations, if they arise. And that absolutely can be a young person. Just as with all job opportunities, applications have to be filled out and interviews have to be taken, in order to find the right kind of person to fill the job.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Tiny Poodles said:


> A young person lol? You need an experienced adult who is extraordinarily dog savvy and has a high level of people skills - folks can get awful testy when being told that their precious baby is causing trouble and needs to leave! And not just any kid would even understand which dog has the problem behavior!


I guess it pays to be 6' tall, have a rather stern face, AND to know dogs. 

I am my own park monitor. A couple of hints to take your dog off the leash is all you get. When I got no response to the hints I had to tell a guy the other day to either take his dog off the leash or leave the park. 

He left... muttering all the way but he left. 

I've since heard that he's been there with his Rottie but took it off the leash in the enclosure before entering the park. Good!


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

lisasgirl said:


> I do think that bans based on temperament/behavior rather than breed make the most sense. Archie has some great dog friends that are pits and pit mixes, and they play nicely with him even though he's a fraction of their size. At least in my area, the tendency to be untrained has more to do with their widespread availability compared to other types of dogs. Like I said, though, cattle dogs have been much more dangerous in my experience. And I love cattle dogs - they're just tough and tend to use biting/nipping to get what they want (since it's their herding style), so they can get a bit scary if they're not trained and handled well. And the only dogs Archie's ever fought with have been terriers and one lab mix.


See, the difference I see here is if a cattle dog nips/bites, more often than not the owners can step in and stop it before the victim is killed. With a Pitt, not so much. One bite, can't get the dog to let go, victim is dead. 

Sure there are nice Pitts, but personally I'm not going to take the chance.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Countryboy said:


> I guess it pays to be 6' tall, have a rather stern face, AND to know dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't think that you are a kid either, with age comes respect  plus it sounds like you have managed it so that you have the whole crowd at the park standing behind you, so I bet that helps too. I don't have a particular time and go to several different parks, so it is not as easy. 
But yeah, I do admit that I do seem to get more respect at the park when Timi's 6'2" bodybuilder Dad is standing behind me


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Countryboy said:


> I guess it pays to be 6' tall, have a rather stern face, AND to know dogs.
> 
> I am my own park monitor. A couple of hints to take your dog off the leash is all you get. When I got no response to the hints I had to tell a guy the other day to either take his dog off the leash or leave the park.
> 
> ...


Good is right!! Hey, you should get paid then for doing what the Parks & Rec would have to do if they hired someone!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I don't think that you are a kid either, with age comes respect  plus it sounds like you have managed it so that you have the whole crowd at the park standing behind you, so I bet that helps too. I don't have a particular time and go to several different parks, so it is not as easy.


Yes on all counts. The same park, and to some extent the same time, is the beginning of networking. And that's when you start to make progress. 

I should say to the OP *Caddy??* that the lady who was the driving force behind the establishment of our park also created a Fb Group of the same name. So we can at least talk about some of the issues there without actually meeting. 

And that's another reason why I can kinda 'steer' people thru some of these issues. She and I back each other up completely. 

Tho we've never met... lol


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

A Facebook group sounds like a good way to communicate with all users, and would be users at the park. There may be one or two people who sort of regulate things, but I haven't noticed anyone that stands out yet.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Caddy said:


> There may be one or two people who sort of regulate things, but I haven't noticed anyone that stands out yet.


LOL - It sounds from your OP that you were the one who stood out. 

And that you've sort of picked a park. Does it have a name? Search that in Fb... it's probably not Secret. If you don't find a Group, step right up and create one!


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

N2Mischief said:


> See, the difference I see here is if a cattle dog nips/bites, more often than not the owners can step in and stop it before the victim is killed. With a Pitt, not so much. One bite, can't get the dog to let go, victim is dead.
> 
> Sure there are nice Pitts, but personally I'm not going to take the chance.


I'm not talking about play-nipping here - ACDs are strong, very fast, and determined by nature, and if they want to do real damage they will. As will any very strong, determined dog. Pit Bulls don't automatically do a latch-on type of bite - they'll do it in the same circumstances as any other large dog trying to kill another dog. Statistics about them indicate a strong correlation between Pit-type dogs and aggression, but you also have to keep in mind that they're a breed that's widely available to and seemingly encouraged among very irresponsible people. In that sense, it's like labeling all chihuahuas as neurotic and unruly.

I completely understand being wary about them because they're strong and attractive to bad owners. Banning them outright is a step too far, though.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

lisasgirl some of the people who have posted in this thread have had dogs killed or severely injured by pitties/mixes. I don't think minds will ever change about them among the members here.


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