# When a pup is returned for no good reason



## poodlemommy1 (Jun 27, 2011)

I was just called by a woman who had purchased a pup (heavily discounted because of the cause) who wanted to train the puppy to be a service dog for her high-functioning autistic child. He had been temperament tested as excellent for this capacity, and for 2 weeks she has been thrilled. But today she says that the 3.5 month old pup has been "rough" with her St. Bernard (nipped him on the hip) and is "humping" her 6 year old daughter. When I spoke to her more depth, it seems her real issue is that her autistic daughter, who is someone who "runs away", doesn't like the fact that the pup, who has been trained to be by her side and dotes on her, is doing his job and she finds it annoying. Plus, she says, she has puppy pads "everywhere" and he keeps missing the mark. Then she revealed that her husband is "no help because he's autistic, too". I told her I would immediately take the puppy back and refund her money. I also told her that he had finally become comfortable enough in her home to start dominance stancing with her St. Bernard, who, I'm sure, would have eventually put him in his place, and that the humping is also normal and the obedience training that she is enrolled in would address that issue. But she is overwhelmed and exhausted. My concern is that the puppy has been gone almost 3 weeks now and it is traumatic enough that he left this home to begin with, now is coming home and I have no intention of turning around and re-homing him without a slow, gradual introduction to a new home. 

I would like to hear from others regarding the reasons a pup is returned to them, outside of any health issues that would of course be reasonable. I feel returning half of the price of the pup should be sufficient as he was sold to her for half of what the others were sold for; but I do not want to argue with her for fear that she would just give the puppy away to someone I would have nightmares over. He was a sweetie, my son and I are happy to have him back, but is it "normal" that people give up at certain times with a new puppy?


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think, given the circumstances, it is probably very normal. Is a professional service dog trainer involved, or have they been trying to do all the training themselves? Pups are hard work at any time - add in an autistic child and adult, and a St B, and I wonder if this woman really understood what she was undertaking!


----------



## poodlemommy1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Professional dog training IS involved, and I didn't question her further on this since she seemed defensive and I didn't want to have her keep the puppy when it seemed her mind has been made up that it's just too overwhelming. 

My own gut instincts told me at the time she came to first look at the puppy that it might not be a good fit because of her "special" circumstances, but I figured other service dogs go to families in similiar situations and adjust just fine but I agree, I think she took on more than she was able. It's just so weird that I have been speaking to her all along and every time we've talked she has praised the gods about how wonderful the puppy is and then literally overnight she'd "had enough". But it's a clear sign that the puppy needs to come home.


----------



## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Quite honestly, I think you should take the puppy back and refund nothing. It is not as if the puppy is sick or aggressive or another deal breaker. The owner simply can't handle normal puppyhood and that is you not your fault or the puppy's fault. 

Sooooo many people get puppies without understanding how much work they are. Then they don't want to do that work. I knew raising a puppy was going to be a huge undertaking and it was! Even now, caring for my very active mini is a lot of work when you consider the exercise, training and grooming (which I do myself).

As an aside, I know that many dogs are good at a variety of service work, including working with autistic childen, however, I think too many parents just get a puppy thinking they will train it to be their child's service dog. This is not likely to work considering these parents are not dog trainers nor service dog trainers. If parents want a service dog for their child they should work with a group that places trained dogs. That is just my opinion.


----------



## Fond of Poodles (Feb 1, 2011)

Please don't take this the wrong way but...

- a 14 week old pup would not be anywhere near trained to be a therapy dog for an autistic child regardless of having a professional trainer involved, the dog should and would have been evaluated by the "therapy dog trainer" prior to purchase to ensure it was a good match for the "job" and the child. It sounds like an older, trained therapy dog would have been a better fit in this situation

- if the pup was evaluated excellent in that capacity, then he must have a wonderful and stable temperament, this temperament should ensure that he won't be heavily traumatized by being re-homed. Our dogs are much more resilient than we give them credit for.

- I wouldn't hesitate to give the woman a full refund for the dog, you will guarantee you get the dog back, you and the owner will have a positive working experience together, and you will most likely be able to sell/re-home the pup successfully with it's temperament and training and so would not lose anything financially


----------



## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

poodlemommy1 said:


> My concern is that the puppy has been gone almost 3 weeks now and it is traumatic enough that he left this home to begin with, now is coming home and I have no intention of turning around and re-homing him without a slow, gradual introduction to a new home.


I would think that coming back to your house would not be an issue with the pup. And I absolutely agree with the next step in your plans. 



poodlemommy1 said:


> is it "normal" that people give up at certain times with a new puppy?


Only breeders would know how many 'times' this happens. But, knowing people, I think that too many of them don't "really understood what she was undertaking!"!! 

PA is right too. Probably a task like that of 'mating' an Autistic child to a 'service dog in training' would involve at least a couple of professionals.


----------



## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

It was unwise of the family to take on a puppy, but you live and learn. I can't imagine how busy and stressful the woman's life is! Wow! 

If I were you, I would take the puppy back, give a partial refund, and perhaps suggest looking into older, trained dogs through an organization. 

I honestly doubt that the pup will be traumatized. I've heard of and met many dogs who have been neglected, abused, etc. and while it took time for them to bounce back, they did. A pup that has been part of a family will likely adjust just fine to living in a new household.


----------



## _Cass_ (Jul 17, 2011)

Jack, my Golden/Poodle is my mom's Emotional Support Dog. Now, ESD's are for high anxiety when traveling, shopping or everyday life. Jack is there when traveling, since my mom has exrtreme anxiety on planes. We had a proffessional with us when we first went to go get him, and some lady came to visit a few times afterward to evaluate him. We went to special puppy classes, and him and my mom went to another type of class afterward.

Now, I am surprised that a Service Dog for an autistic child would not have gone through any of this... It really should have been done to ensure a good placement.

A long time ago we had a few litters of kittens and each time one of them was returned to us for one reason or another.. I agree that you should refund only a portion of the price and that they should turn to an older, pre-trained dog.

Good luck finding another home for the lil' lad!


----------



## Rayah-QualitySPs (Aug 31, 2010)

This may not be want you want to hear but take the puppy back and return the full amount. I might have read this wrong but it sounds like she has only had the puppy for *two* weeks.

I say this because if you don't you do this you will *regret* it further down the road. You are correct that the buyer has made mistakes with the puppy but you the breeder sold someone a puppy you bred that does not fit in their home or with their lifestyle. 

It is up to a reputable breeder to place puppies with homes where they fit if they want to sell puppies to forever homes.

This is a real chance for you to *show* the buyer that you *care* more about the *dog* than the *money*. This will stand your reputation in good stead.

You owe nothing to this buyer, (dependant on your contract), but I am pretty sure you can resell a well bred temperament puppy out of health tested parents for the full amount fairly soon.

I will tell you my story about a puppy sale gone wrong. 

It was only my second litter and I sold a puppy to a women married to a fairly famous athlete. I met the woman in my house and spoke to her on the phone more than once. I thought I assessed the situation well. 

There were children in the home that I did not meet but I did not put up any red flags. I sold her a puppy and my contract states the new owner must have a well puppy vet visit to make sure my vet did not miss any health issues - a win - win situation.

To make a long story short I received a call from the vet who did the well puppy visit three weeks after the puppy was sold. The vet was calling to let me know the puppy was having seizures. After talking for a few minutes the vet told me if I came to his clinic and returned the purchase price the owner paid he would give me back the puppy. 

I was three hours away from the clinic but quickly made arrangement to get him the cash and get the puppy. When I got the puppy it was 3 pounds lighter than when I sold it. Apparently the housekeeper did not feed the puppy very often. The housekeeper was not from Canada and had her hands full with the children. Oh, and the famous athlete had previously divorced this buyer.

At the time I did not even stop to think that the vet clinic should not have breeched the privacy of the owner like this but must say I was happy they did. I am sure it was because the vet wanted the puppy not to go back to this home. The buyer did raise a big stink and threatened to sue but in the end nothing came of it.

I have learned to make sure I know how many people live in the household, what their ages are and if there is any hired help. It never crossed my mind someone would pay a large sum for a puppy and not realize it was not fed until it almost died! I still have a hard time selling puppies to people with a lot of money.

Give back the money and chalk this lesson up to experience.


----------



## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

I am clearly not a breeder, but IMHO I agree with the others to just give a full refund and get your precious puppy back. In addition to the safe return of the puppy, consider it the cost of upholding your good reputation in the area. Plus, in all likelihood puppy is still healthy, well and trainable and would be able to go to another family soon, perhaps even for more of a cost since you gave them a discount.


----------



## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I don't have a comment on the "refund" as you can read there are 3 different opinions & no right or wrong. Your just going to have to muddle through that.

On another note though the pup will not be "confused", "upset" or anything else. I have a few dogs from "rescues" all with no issues, I have a Crested that I got from a good breeder that was returned to her 1 year later because "they couldn't houstrain her" WTF the dog was fine just needs to go out more often than larger dogs. My most recent addition came from CPR. He was plucked off the streets by animal control, impounded for X # of days, plucked from Animal Control to a Rescue that then had him placed in CPR, they had him for 1 month & then we adopted him. So in a 1 month period of time that dog had 3 homes & then us. He is awesome with NO issues. Dogs can be very tough & all honesty what 3 wks max has passed. This pup will have no issues in finding the right home.


----------



## pap2labc (Jun 25, 2010)

I agree with the others that the pup will most likely be fine and that mom just sounds overwhelmed. I haven't bred any poodle litters, but have bred two border collie litters. I decided that I would gladly refund the full the price of the pup, no questions asked, to get my pup back at any age.....13 weeks or 13 years old. I'd drive anywhere or fly anywhere to get them. My border collie mentor is the same way, so I suppose that is where I picked up this particular philosophy.  I made the decision to breed my bitch and I'm responsible for her offspring (and any of their offspring) for the rest of their lives. All puppies were placed very carefully and I have been fortunate.


----------



## poodlemommy1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks for the replies on the little guy's ability to be comfortable in another home. He arrived here yesterday afternoon, and I was a little shocked. He left here with good puppy health, chubby but not bloated, and has been returned with his ribs sticking out and huge dark circles under his eyes, with eyes draining. She had been feeding him Kibbles & Bits, despite the fact that I always speak to people about feeding quality puppy food. She also mentioned that treats consisted of Vanilla wafers. [email protected]!!!

Also, he urinates ever 20 minutes. Full urine stream, no piddling, but every...20...minutes. Luckily he does have a signal that he needs to go, and I can get him outside, but I am taking a urine sample in to make sure he doesn't have an infection. He was the runt of the litter so maybe his bladder is a little behind in growth, but I wonder where he stores all that water because there clearly is more going out than coming in.

Other than that, this morning he ate a huge bowlful of puppy food and boiled chicken and seems to remember his whelping room, my bedroom where they lived after spilling out of their room, and the rest of the house. His mom and dad are happy to see him. He's such a little smack-talker, he always was, he stands and barks at me when he wants attention. I have to stay stoic because each time a puppy left it truly was emotionally wrenching for me, and now I will go through the process again. :-(

I wish I could keep him but we are moving to a smaller place and I can't take a poodle herd. Here is a picture of him after his bath, his eyes cleaned and looking much better.


----------



## poodlemommy1 (Jun 27, 2011)

PaddleAddict said:


> Quite honestly, I think you should take the puppy back and refund nothing. It is not as if the puppy is sick or aggressive or another deal breaker. The owner simply can't handle normal puppyhood and that is you not your fault or the puppy's fault.
> 
> Sooooo many people get puppies without understanding how much work they are. Then they don't want to do that work. I knew raising a puppy was going to be a huge undertaking and it was! Even now, caring for my very active mini is a lot of work when you consider the exercise, training and grooming (which I do myself).
> 
> As an aside, I know that many dogs are good at a variety of service work, including working with autistic childen, however, I think too many parents just get a puppy thinking they will train it to be their child's service dog. This is not likely to work considering these parents are not dog trainers nor service dog trainers. If parents want a service dog for their child they should work with a group that places trained dogs. That is just my opinion.


Exactly. I feel the same way, that even though people talk to you about understanding the needs of puppies, perhaps they don't realistically see their own lives. I have turned people away after asking them about their lives and seeing that, for me and my pups, it wouldn't be a good fit. Boy, do they get pissy about that, even though I try to take all the blame by saying I'm just really neurotic about my puppies (just so they can rail about that, rather than thinking I'm judging them). But I happened to be one of those people who did NOT want my pups crated for long periods, or people without fenced yards. I realize I may have bypassed perfectly good puppy owners, but I also had a larger pool of people to choose from because I was asking for only $5-$600 for my puppies. 

And, yes, it was a professional service trainer that had evaluated the pup and up until he was returned, I had nothing but glowing reports. I think it was the pee problem that did it, but since she never mentioned it at first I think it may have recently developed. I have read about Kibbles n' Bits and it contains a really high degree of sodium, so if his urine sample shows no infection I am going to keep him on low sodium foods and see if it doesn't change things around. 

I met everyone in the family except the man of the house and had every indication that the daughter and dog were going to do wonderfully. My daughter has a Masters in Psychology and works with Aspergers/Autistic children and I have some understanding of the levels of functionality. I wouldn't think of *not* meeting the children if the are some in the family; kids can sometimes be cruel and you can see in their eyes or just by their demeanor around dogs (or their siblings, for that matter) if this is potentially a problem. In this case it was very heartwarming to see how the daughter and dog took to each other. Up until that time, I hadn't seen this particular puppy be very interested in children during other views by potential new owners.

Although the mom said the daughter was growing angry with the puppy because the puppy followed her everywhere, this IS WHAT the pup was being trained to do, not to mention the fact that the pup slept with the child and was forming the main bond with her. Of course she would resent it if she has flight issues. It's something that's going to have to be worked through with any service dog. 

Like I said... I think, in the end, it was the need to have the dog outside often to urinate, and rather than evaluate what she was feeding him that has caused this, or the possibility of infection, she returned him just one day short of 3 weeks.


----------



## partial2poodles (Feb 11, 2010)

Im so glad he's back with you. I wouldnt care about taking one back for no good reason...."GIMME HIM, I have ALWAYS loved him" I love poodles and cant stand the thought that someone doesnt appreciate their goodness.


----------



## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

I'm relieved this pup is back in YOUR home. I won't even comment on the situation because I have nothing good to say about that family (and for once I'll heed my mother's advice). 

It sounds like he has a UTI (Byron used to wee like that when he got them, but then he was 13 yoa). I'm sure you'll find the adorable little guy another home--and not just _any _home but a great one. Too bad you're not on the east coast as I can think of one pood who needs a sibling.


----------



## poodlemommy1 (Jun 27, 2011)

I brought a urine sample in to the vet, along with the pup. The vet emerged from the testing area and was pale. She said "before I faint from worry, did you give this puppy a lot of water before he peed?" I said yes, he drinks a LOT of water and she said the urine was so dilute it barely had anything in it to test and he is either in absolute kidney crisis or he's been drinking so much water I got a bad catch. I told her it had been really hard to stick a container under him while peeing so I had to keep trying, so I let him keep drinking. This morning the catch had a lot more color and he's ok. But, she did say that it appears that he was crated or kept completely inactive during the 3 weeks he was gone because he had lost so much muscle tone. She said I had to be really careful and not let him run and jump very much for awhile until he built up some muscle tone again. She said his hips were fine even though they protrude badly, he was just very underfed. She almost cried when I told her about the Kibbles N' Bits because it contains no protein fit for a puppy. And, when she delivered the puppy back she gave me a can of that cheesy stuff that they put in Kongs... ugh... he probably lived on that... Sodium is one of the main ingredients... Bottom line.... don't fall for ANYONE'S sob stories when it comes to placing a puppy unless you know them personally and how they live and treat their animals. This lady must have treated the little guy like a slave service dog, not allowing him any freedoms at all. He is so happy to be back at home, and yes, he does pee a LOT, but the vet told me to stop allowing him to drink whenever he wanted, some dogs learn to drink a lot out of boredom, and he is not dehydrated. So I am now monitoring the water. Also, he learned IN ONE DAY how to ring the bell to go out. So smart!! I can't believe anyone wouldn't appreciate and work with these incredible dogs. The hard part will be re-homing him... I'm falling in love!!


----------



## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_What a horror story!!

I'm glad that you got him back and will be able to rehabilitate him from his undeserving neglect. 

I was wondering if you ever had any contact with the person training the puppy during the time it was gone or if it was just with the woman who purchased him._


----------



## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

Yay for some good news. This is clearly a good story of a dog being returned home. 

OT- how did you teach him to ring the bell? I gave up after weeks and weeks. We got her to touch the bell, then we would let her out, but she'd never do it on her own.


----------



## jazzipoodle (Mar 30, 2010)

I am so glad you got the puppy back. Poor baby being treated so badly by the terrible people! She doesn't need a dog!!


----------



## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

Oh, that is horrible and no way to treat a living being! There are no excuses. I hope she suffers a karmic retribution.


----------



## poodlemommy1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Spoospirit, I could kick myself because on the phone she told me there were 2 sessions left with the trainer but she lives about 2 hours away from me, so I knew I couldn't attend... now I wish I had gotten the name of the trainer!!!

Bella's Momma, I've trained other Spoos on the bell... I hang the bell from a long piece of yarn on the doorknob. Every time it's time to go out, I ring the bell (this particular pup, as I said, had to go out a LOT.... like every 20 minutes at first). Then after awhile I just jiggled the bell and he'd come running. By the evening, he went up to the bell and hit it with his nose. Cool or what???? I will say that today he only did it once, but I am not waiting long enough (I guess) between potty breaks for him to do it... I just want to reinforce in him that OUTSIDE is where the action happens right now. 

Former owner had put a belly band on him because she didn't want to deal with his need to go out. Ugh!!! I just wonder WHY some people don't think about what they are PUTTING IN their dog that affects what COMES OUT??

The pup has been resting all day today. He and his dad played last night and I think he may have overdone it. It's so sad to see how totally tuckered out this little 4 month old puppy is. He's like an old man. But he's eating huge amounts and I am very optimistic.


----------



## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

poodlemommy1 said:


> Bella's Momma, I've trained other Spoos on the bell... _I hang the bell from a long piece of yarn on the doorknob. Every time it's time to go out, I ring the bell (this particular pup, as I said, had to go out a LOT.... like every 20 minutes at first). _Then after awhile I just jiggled the bell and he'd come running. By the evening, he went up to the bell and hit it with his nose. Cool or what???? I will say that today he only did it once, but I am not waiting long enough (I guess) between potty breaks for him to do it... I just want to reinforce in him that OUTSIDE is where the action happens right now.


Thanks! I did the first parts, but never tried jingling it to get her to come running and she never rang it on her own. Dh got her trained to hit it if he asked her to.


----------



## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

I love a happy ending, though I am enraged this dear pup was ever so maltreated! The wonderful thing about dogs is how forgiving and hopeful they are. Now that he's safely back in your good care and that nightmare is behind him, I'm sure he's going to go on and live a happy, healthy life with no memory of anything otherwise. I am so very sorry for the ordeal you and he went through. I am left wondering how this woman treats her own child, if she could be so callous and ill prepared to care for a pup. Hope your spirits are lifted by knowing he'll be safe forever more, mine sure are!


----------



## phrannie (Jan 8, 2011)

*Before I even got to the end, I was thinking....be grateful your pup was out of ignorant hands (she had to be busy before she ever thought to take on more with a puppy...so WTH was she thinking)..

You had me scared there for a second, about the dilute urine and the massive quanities of it....I am SO glad that you got some more normal urine later (I use a long handled ladel, and one of those tiny throw-away Tupperware like things when I collect urine....the lid snaps on, and is leak proof...and fits in a coat pocket )

This pup is lucky to get outta where he was....and lucky to have a mom like you...

p*


----------



## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I am glad this puppy is back with you. I am sure you will have him restored to full health soon and hopefully you will find this sweetheart the perfect family who will love and care for him. 

On a side note Swizzle picked up the bells fast too. I made him hit the ball when he was going out (only when he is going to get down to business).


----------



## itzfoxfire58 (Jun 18, 2011)

I just don't get how you can get a wonderful dog and just do that to him, but it happens all the time. Thats how dogs get tied up and just put in the yard forgotten about, this makes me so mad. Well I'm glad you got him back and he will be back to his own self in a short while.


----------



## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

i am SOOOO glad you got that poor puppy back.


----------



## Dallasminis (Feb 6, 2011)

Oh, so glad that he is away from that situation...and that he is back in a safe haven with you. Poor little puppy, he sounds like he's doing better already. How could anyone neglect a puppy? Keep us posted on his progress...please?


----------



## poodlemommy1 (Jun 27, 2011)

ok, here's my rather emotional update (sorry, but I'm obviously not cut out to be a "breeder" because I can't imagine ever doing this again and feeling this way: I loved on that puppy (I called him "runtie") and he bounced back pretty quickly. He was so happy, sleeping on my bed and running around with his mom and dad. But, I just couldn't keep him, so I started putting the word out last week and a retired couple who live on lots of acreage called and said that they had lost their 6 year old spoo to bone cancer a few months ago, so I let them come over and the puppy immediately went up to the lady and sat at her feet. He gave me the damn saddest looks, though... he **KNEW**, he just knew, he was leaving. Still makes me cry. But I was thoroughly convinced after talking to them for 2 hours that they were his people. I gave them food and treats and he kept sitting by her, but looking at me so sad.... 

I have received daily emails telling me how well he is adjusting, they named him after his dad because when they mentioned dad's name... he perked up and got animated, so that makes me very happy. I am also so very grateful that each person who has adopted these pups has made such huge efforts to keep me in the loop.

Today one of them brought a puppy over for me to groom. I haven't seen him for oh- 6 weeks... and he barked at me when he first got out of the car but then I used the call I used when they were all babies and he remembered in about 30 seconds... and it was ON. Nothing makes me happier when they are happy with their new owners but clearly remember me as well. I am very blessed that two of the pups went to "near family" so I do get to say hi to a puppy every once in awhile. 

I just know, though, that I can't do this again, have a litter. My Leo's been neutered now, so it's a done deal. It is just too heartbreaking, I don't know how anyone can be cavalier about breeding. Or OWNING.


----------



## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I can understand why being a breeder can be too heartwrenching especially after what your poor baby went through. Ironically it is people like you that make the best breeders - because they care so much. I know I am over the top with Swizzle - everything must be just so but I really don't understand how some people can be so cavelier about how they treat their dogs. I am so glad your puppy has found a wonderful forever home.


----------



## poodlemommy1 (Jun 27, 2011)

I have a very sad update. The little guy was at his new home and they noticed that almost overnight he became very lethargic and didn't eat much. They immediately took him to the vet who ran tons of tests and it turned out he had a liver shunt. From what I read, this is NOT common in standard poodles, and who know what causes it. The vet performed surgery last Weds. He came out of surgery fine and was up and around the next day, peed and poo'd and they thought he might even go home sooner than the 2 days they normally keep them. But on Friday he aspirated some vomit. This is according to the pup's owners who were visiting him three times a day and I don't want to press for more details, but evidently in the night he had vomited and aspirated some. Some they put him on antibiotics and kept him over the weekend. I woke up to the news this morning that he didn't make it through the night on Sunday. I am so beside myself, not only for me as the mom to this pup for 4 months but to the new, wonderful adoptive parents who only got to love him for 2 months. They spent literally thousands of dollars on this little guy, only to lose him after surgery.

I am equally so angry and so sad. I want to blame the vet but I know it's useless to try to figure it out. I don't want to upset the adoptive parents any more than they already are by peppering them with questions. It was the adoptive Dad that noticed that the pup seemed lethargic and set-back 2 days after surgery and told the vet that something was wrong, he could tell even by visiting Leo II (he was named after his dad, who I have) that he was having a set-back. That's when they admitted that he had aspirated and started him on antibiotics. I know it's hard to come back after aspiration, it weakens the dog terribly. I just feel it was preventable. 

I don't have any more to say right now. I think about the mightiness of this little runty puppy, he who was the one who woke me every morning because he wanted OUT of the puppy room and his brothers and sisters followed his lead; he took on all the other siblings as if he was 10 times their size, he "smack talked" me if I scolded the puppies for one reason or another, he loved his raw chicken more than any other. I am just so bereft. I have cried all day long.

I will refund fully the money the people paid for the puppy and will help them if I can to defray the enormous costs of the tests and surgery. I have to do something, this is just so unfair. I know it doesn't fall within the puppy contract but they were so wonderful, he loved them instantly, and now they have lost their second beloved dog within one year. I have neutered my Leo (which is good, just in case this is in his line) so I can't offer them a replacement puppy, but I need to do something for these people who deserved to spend the next 15 years with a Spoo!! I am just so horribly sad.

I changed my Avatar so everyone could see the wonderful little guy who I will never forget.


----------



## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

What a sad story with a sadder ending. I am so sorry for your loss as well as the adoptive family. That must be so very difficult for them and I can only imagine how hard it is for you. The picture of the pup is just precious and know that he is not suffering now, and again I am so sorry for your loss and the loss of a precious little pup.


----------



## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

dammit. that poor baby. that poor family and poor you. (((hugs))) to everyone.


----------



## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

That poor sweet boy - how tragic. ((hugs))


----------



## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm so sorry for your tragic loss. That poor little guy. I know I would keep going over the "what ifs," too, and think about what could have been done differently, but it's a painful process. It sounds like you are a caring and committed breeder.


----------



## poodlemommy1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks to everyone who has posted. My sinuses are completely stuffed from crying and remorse. I don't know that I have ever cried this hard over losing something I loved--- it seems so dramatic -- and I don't want to burden the people who adopted him because they have their own grief. It's just so weird to have whelped a puppy and been really, really involved with him for so long and carefully pick their families and then.... poof.

I'm lucky in that I get to see 2 of his siblings often, and I am dogsitting another one of his brothers for 2 weeks in November. 

It's just funny how the quirky characteristics of one puppy can really sit with you and cause you to have such mourning.


----------



## Dallasminis (Feb 6, 2011)

You did everything right for this puppy. I am happy he had love with his new family before his demise. Who can explain all that happened? But you did everything you could...I'm sending healing energy to you and the pup's family. Little puppy is whole now...thank you for being a responsible breeder....you could not have done a better job...


----------



## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

I am so sorry! You did everything in the world you possibly could for that dear, sweet little boy throughout his all too brief life. You are entitled to each and every tear you shed. Just know you did the best by him, as you are for his devastated owners. Some things in life are simply out of our control. But that little pup always knew you were in his corner. My heart goes out to you, take care.


----------



## poodlemommy1 (Jun 27, 2011)

But the thing is, he wasn't suffering before the surgery! He was playful, happy, yippy... up until 2 days before when he got very lethargic. I don't know that I would have even noticed, but his new owners were hypervigilant because they had lost a dog months earlier (to cancer). In fact, I thought they might be over-reacting, but nope, they found that shunt. They are in a great deal of pain over wondering if he would have just been better off without having had the surgery, maybe he... oh well, I know what they are going through. I just wish we could turn back the clock and pick a different surgeon, in my state there is an incredible Vet School that did state-of-the-art surgeries on liver shunts; but I didn't want to interfere with their choice.

My new mission is to find them another Spoo puppy, but I'm scared. I am afraid that I would choose badly. I am going to pay them back their fee for the puppy, it was $500, and they've indicated they would love a new puppy, but I'm concerned that I'll mess it up. 

If there are any breeders out there that would like to see this family have a new Spoo and would talk with them and bill *me* for the pup, please PM me.


----------



## buttercup123 (Oct 7, 2010)

Wow what a emotional roller coaster!!
That first picture you posted of him he looked so sad, I can see what you mean by his eyes 

Then to have found the perfect family and have him pass is just horrible. 

You sound like a AMAZING breeder though, dont forget that even if your not breeding again. 

Where are you located so we can help find a puppy.


----------



## poodlemommy1 (Jun 27, 2011)

buttercup123 said:


> Wow what a emotional roller coaster!!
> That first picture you posted of him he looked so sad, I can see what you mean by his eyes
> 
> Then to have found the perfect family and have him pass is just horrible.
> ...



oh lord that totally made me cry again. I haven't told anyone this because I thought it sounded over the top, but he ***did*** always have the saddest eyes, and the day he was adopted it was insane... he just looked at me so incredibly sadly - but I had read that humans are always projecting their own emotions onto their animals so I told myself it was all in my imagination and that he was going to have a much better life with THEM than he would have with ME because I was going back to work full time and he deserved to be with PEOPLE and these people were retired and were going to be amazing. But I'll never ever forget the sad eyes and how sweet he was, yipping and smack talking me all the time. 

OMG,,, I just remembered something. Lucy, his mom, singled him out ever since he was a puppy and would play extra hard with him, so much so that I wondered if there was a problem. She would "pick" on him, almost. I thought maybe it was because he was the runt and she was trying to toughen him up a bit. When he got a little older she was really insistent on cleaning him ---mostly licking his EYES a lot. Plus, his eyes had more of an under-eye hollow look than any other the other puppies.

I live near Seattle, in Washington State. I've told the adoptive owners of my desire to find them a new Spoo, but it would be the breeder that talks with them, because they need to be very comfortable with their pup. I am just going to be the one that pays.


----------



## vtomblin (Jul 18, 2010)

If you are looking for a really nice pup from an awesome breeder I know My breeder Deborah Foster (violet standard poodles) has a 14 day old litter right now. Same pedigree as my show girl but different parents. Sound, pretty and awesome temperament plus tons o testing. She is in Langley BC which is drivable for your area. I respect your ethics and think you would hit it off with Deborah, Told her about your story today. She has a few cream/ white boys available. I am so sorry for what you are going through. I wish I could do something to make it better. Maybe this will help. Hugs...


----------



## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

I just now read this (I've been so busy tracking the group buys). I'm so sorry you and this couple had to endure such a tragedy. My heart goes out to all of you. :grouphug:

Leo II was an appropriate name for this little guy as it sounds like he _was _a lion--tough, strong and proud. A fighter. Sometimes it's the ones who are only with us a few hours or days that impact our lives the most. It's not that we love them more than the others, it's just that they're special, possessing a spark or a gift so rare it bursts forth like a geyser. 

I often wonder if they realize something is wrong and try to cram a lifetime into those few fleeting hours, days or months, knowing they have something to teach us--to share with us--and determined to do so. It sounds like he made an impression in many lives and will live on in your hearts. 

When you're ready, will you post more pictures of Leo II? Maybe even start a memorial thread for him in the poodle picture section. I have a scrapbook for all of mine, and I pull it out often to remember the good times and the wisdom each imparted.


----------

