# Does your poodle play rough?



## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

Well....sounds like a normal play to me. If the other dog owners have problems with that then they should just keep their precious pups at home, no?


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## Meg (Aug 1, 2010)

I agree Joelly, I never even had a second thought about his play until a few new faces at the park shied away from Darcy. I figure as long as he (or any other dog in the park) isn't harming anyone then its fine, still curious to see if anyone had a poodle who mouths and plays hard.


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## Vixen (May 31, 2011)

I don't know what's normal play for a spoo as mine is only 13 weeks old, but I admit that if another dog was pulling my dog's ear or tail I'd get upset. Maybe I'm too overprotective though? 

Misha likes to latch onto Vixen's tail and I stop him every time so I'm hoping to stop the behavior before it becomes too bad. Vixen doesn't have much hair so I really want her to keep what little she has, lol. Just my 2 cents :creep:


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

My guys do for sure. One of the first pictures I have of my boys is the pair trotting along single file, one pup holding the tip of the other pup's tail in his mouth. 

They still like to play tackle fetch. I throw the ball. The fetching obsessed one of the pair races after the ball and scoops it up. Then his brother chases him and grabs hold of a hind leg. Sometimes they stop to wrestle a bit, and the lead dog manages to rescue his leg. Other times they just come bombing back to me with the lead dog hopping on three legs, clutching the ball in his jaws, and towing his brother.


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## Meg (Aug 1, 2010)

> I admit that if another dog was pulling my dog's ear or tail I'd get upset. Maybe I'm too overprotective though?


I see this happening with a handful of people at the park and this is whats making me worry. If the shoe were on the other foot I could absolutley see this being my response too Vixen. I'm not even sure when his style began and have no idea how to stop it. He loves going to the park and meeting other dogs so I'm not sure what my workaround for this would be. 

Also to clarifiy, he isn't tugging on tails or ears, he is just kind of mouthing them. Most dogs love the attention and off they go to play, but some owners don't like thier dog to be so rough and tumble. I have never seen Darcy aggressive in any way whatsoever (his response to fight or flight is always flight) so I know he doesn't realize he is being a brat.


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## Abbe gails Mom (Nov 8, 2012)

Ok, so what would you think or do if a bigger dog ran up to Darcy and did that? I don't think that is a good thing to be doing, the little dog you have the pict. of is smaller, look at it this way, if Darcy does that to a dog the same size or bigger, there might be a bad fight, would hate to see that, so why not put a stop to the aggressive so called play now, befor someone gets hurt.Or let him play with bigger dogs, I just hate to see anyones dog get hurt.


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## WillyBilly (Jan 8, 2013)

Willy is 10 months old now. I got him when he was four months old. We go to the dog park often and he avoids rough playing dogs. He gravitates towards dogs that are there to run. He loves full stride runs. The rougher playing dogs seem to seek themselves out as well. Rough play seems to be the norm for some breeds. I noticed that Poodles seem to gravitate toward other poodles and they all seem to enjoy running. I have seen a few rough playing Labradoodles though. I guess all dogs have their own personalities and play styles. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## Meg (Aug 1, 2010)

Thanks for the perspective Abbe gails Mom. The little dog in the picture lives with Darcy and they like to play together and have no issues with play. The park I go to is seperated for big dogs and little dogs and we always go into the big dog section. Darcy has been rolled by bigger dogs in the park and he just avoids that dog there on out. My biggest concern is for the peace of mind of the other owners. 

Most dogs I've known will move away from a dog they don't want to play with, in this case, both dogs want to play, but the owners don't like the terms of play. I don't like the way Darcy is being pushy and the other owner doesn't like that thier dog is being pushy in response to Darcy's play initiation. Does anyone have any ideas that would curb the pushy play? I am willing to try them out.

WillyBilly: Darcy loves to run too! In fact, I think he mouths tails in order to get the other dog to run and be chased. You're right, play styles tend to stick to the same play styles in the park. I just hate to think that my dog is fostering pushy behavior in someone else's pet.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Maddy plays like that too and it's gotten her into trouble many times with other dogs, because many don't like her getting into their personal space like that. Indy on the other hand does not like other dogs to touch her or she gets a little defensive, so I guess I have one of each end of the spectrum. But they play really rough with each other! Personally (probably because I have Maddy) I wouldn't mind if other dogs were rough as long as it was all in play, but there have been a couple of dogs (a sharpei-pit mix, and a pit bull) who just ran at her like a freight train and pinned her on her back, and that was the game. No running around, no chasing each other, just flattening her until I intervened. I worried that with a determined charge like that, when I got her loose, the way she runs really fast would trigger a prey drive maybe they didn't know they had before. I didn't care for that!


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

To make it a win-win situation for everyone (dogs and owners) where the same size dogs are grouped with another same size dogs, why not try a daycare? 

Play is just like sit, with a dog, they need to be train to sit so they also need to be train to play, play nice that is.


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## Luce (Mar 4, 2013)

My little mpoo is only 10 weeks old and I see rough assertive play with me. grabbing my arms and nipping my pants. At puppy training class, she want to see the other pups - a 16 week old Husky, and a 9 week old Shepard-Lab mix. The Husky towers over her but she doesn't care! He put her in her place Saturday which was a good thing - she needs to learn dog manners.

I would be concerned also if mine grabbed other dogs like that and it wasn't reciprocated in fun.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think there are two separate issues - dog etiquette and human etiquette.

If he is reading other dogs correctly, recognising those that don't want to play and avoiding them, and adjusting his play style to suit the way other dogs like to play, he is unlikely to get hurt or into a fight. At worst he will push things a bit too far, get snapped at, and accept the rebuke.

Human etiquette is a bit more difficult. Many people find it hard to tell the difference between rough and tumble play fighting and real fighting - I have seen people gasp in horror at some of the games my two toys play together and the noises they make! It's interesting that you say it is the new owners, unfamiliar with his play style, who seem worried by it. I think I would work on his manners, and make sure I could call him to me when he approaches a dog I don't know well, or one who might not want to play his way. It is then for the other dog - or their owner - to decide whether to initiate play. 

I walk a dog who hates other dogs pushing into her space - the number of owners of large exuberant dogs who see me leashing her and moving off he path, here me say she does not like other dogs, and respond with "It's OK, my dog is friendly!" as their dog lollops over to sniff at her, is beyond belief! Every time she is pushed over threshold a week's worth of counter conditioning goes out of the window! Dogs like Jill should not, of course, be in dog parks, but it is still unfair to push dogs and their owners into reacting. Don't be a MDIF - if in doubt, call him away!


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

Jazz is ten years younger than Luke and 40 pounds lighter, but she's the one who initiates rough play. She grabs him by a hind leg or by the ear and they go at it, snarling and growling, rolling on the floor, but it never takes a nasty turn. Eventually they just go on about their business. I'm assuming, since she's still mostly puppy and he's the adult, that he'd stop her if she got out of bounds. 

Just in the last couple of weeks, she has tried to play with me like that, in the middle of a walk. She'll do the head-down, butt-up play bow, then run at me, leap in the air high enough to look me in the face, growl, drop to the ground, run back and forth, repeat, repeat, repeat. No mouthing, and it was cute the first couple of times, then not so much, so I put a stop to it.

I've never taken Jazz to a dog park, don't understand the etiquette, so I can't speak from experience, but I'd probably be upset if someone's dog just "attacked" Jazz without warning, even if it was all in play. I guess it would depend on what happened next--play or true fight. On the other hand, although I know Jazz isn't a fighter, I'd be just as upset if she did the same to another dog, mostly because I'm not sure she would read the doggy signs properly and avoid a dog who didn't want to indulge her.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

fjm said:


> I think there are two separate issues - dog etiquette and human etiquette.
> 
> If he is reading other dogs correctly, recognising those that don't want to play and avoiding them, and adjusting his play style to suit the way other dogs like to play, he is unlikely to get hurt or into a fight. At worst he will push things a bit too far, get snapped at, and accept the rebuke.
> 
> Human etiquette is a bit more difficult. Many people find it hard to tell the difference between rough and tumble play fighting and real fighting - I have seen people gasp in horror at some of the games my two toys play together and the noises they make! It's interesting that you say it is the new owners, unfamiliar with his play style, who seem worried by it.


Quite right FJM . . two types of etiquette. 

But at our dog park, 'dog etiquette' rules. 'Coz human etiquette, depending on the owners, is all over the map. Most of them can't tell an intimidated dog from a fire hydrant. Or they expect two new dogs to go off on a tranquil sniff holding hands and romping joyfully together. 

And our parks are much different than yours. People who bring their dogs in on a leash are discouraged in the most friendly way possible. Then, if they comply, I will try to explain some of the intricacies of dog interaction. Tail up/tail down is usually the first one. 

The ones who are open to learning generally fit right in with the crowd of owners. And are quite pleased to see their previously nervous dog emerge from the pack, tail up, and charging at another dog in mock battle.

The humans who bring their own, human, manners to the dog park are generally left alone.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

fjm points out one of the biggest things I don't like about our dog parks, the people. Many of our local dog park people think of their visit as a chance to have coffee and gossip or play video games on their phones while ignoring their out of control dogs. Most of the time dogs can figure each other out, but when there is a dog with bad manners it spoils the whole vibe and can set other dogs off. The next thing you know chaos ensues and all your training goes out the window. We don't go to dog parks because I really don't want to take a chance of having Lily have a bad experience that puts her off her performance, besides Peeves is intact and unwelcome anyway.

As to playing rough, Lily weighs about 35 lbs and Peeves is over 90. She body slams him, takes his herding body block no problem and often is the instigator of play sessions that look like a cross between professional wrestling and a kangaroo boxing match. Usually Peeves cries uncle before she does.


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## logan0423 (Feb 13, 2013)

My wife and I have a mpoo, Dobi, and my parents have a maltese-poodle mix, Cappi, and they are both puppies. Cappi is about a month older than Dobi and she initiates the rough play, but once she gets Dobi worked up he gets rough also. They growl and bark a lot and bite each other, especially on the ears. I've read that if the biting gets too rough the one being bitten will whimper, as if to say they have had enough, so I don't bother with breaking them up. I'm not really worried about them even though I'll jump in and settle things down from time to time - once I caught Dobi pulling Cappi across the room by her ear, but she just let him as if it was part of the game. I know it's all play because once they get tired they lay around with each other and get along very well. My mom says Cappi gets sad when we take Dobi home with us. What I do worry about is that Dobi is going to think this type of play is ok with all dogs. My wife's brother has a standard that, obviously, is much larger than Dobi and Dobi tries to get rough with him also. I let it go expecting Jake to show Dobi his place and help Dobi learn what is acceptable. Jake can sort of pin Dobi a few times, but this gets Dobi even more worked up and Jake gets nervous because Dobi starts darting and jumping around and Jake can't keep Dobi off of him. I would like to discourage Dobi from playing like this because I also worry about how others owners feel about this rough play, but I know for Dobi it's just that - playing.


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## sarahmurphy (Mar 22, 2012)

As others have said, it's pretty typical poodle play. Spike is pushy, bossy and nosy in play, but he's not too mouthy (unless licking ears counts...) Fritz is a bit more mouthy and more likely to grab hold of a tail or leg or ear to convince Spike that he wants to share the balls... We generally stick to poodle playdates for this reason, in one of our yards. We do have playdates with another set of dogs, Spinone Italianos, and they do correct him when he is rude enough, and ignore him when he is a pain and they are done, but they hare incredibly well trained and well behaved hunting dogs who are titled in obedience, etc. and are also therapy dogs. I would not let him try it with a dog he did not know, especially of a different breed/size/temperament.


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## MTWaggin (Nov 17, 2010)

There are MANY dogs that cannot handle the energy level and play style of a poodle. Small dogs especially are intimidated (and should be) by it. There are "appropriate" play modes for the dog parks and sadly most people don't know what that is. I'm sad to see people saying that the "other dogs" should stay home. If you want to play at the public playground you need to understand proper dog play roles. My standard poodle intimidates many dogs although HE would be the one to run if someone did that to him. My other non poodle that is similar size, HATES what Sterling thinks is "play". Sterling too does the retriever "mouthing" of other especially small dogs including his brothers at home and I just plain don't allow it. Why? Because those big spoo teeth and and will break skin and a standard poodle plowing into a small dog can and will break bones. 

Okay that said I am NOT a dog park fan...too many possibilities for harm on all sides. Controlled play dates would maybe be a much better idea.

Sherry in MT


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## cindyreef (Sep 28, 2012)

I have a big spoo. 11 months old. He only weights 70lbs but he is tall 28". We only have the one dog and he gets VERY excited to play when he sees other dogs. We do not have a dog park and Im not sure if I would take him. Im scared he will get hurt, not listen etc. We live in the country so he can get out allot. My son has a golden retriever the same age, shorter but about 65 lbs. He also has an older 5 yrs, a smaller mixed breed dog. When my spoo visits them, or vice versa, he and the retriever play rough steady. For hours. The smaller dog will run but snaps at the pups and they leave him be. Im worried because my spoo plays rough and mouths allot. My son complains that his dog will need a bath because he is soaking wet from salivia. I don't know how to stop it. And I noticed that my spoo sometimes gets mad at the other dog and is obviously dominate. Should this be corrected? They never hurt each other. And we always correct it when we see it but...
Also my sons retriever will tire and my spoo wont. I suppose my dog doesn't see other dogs as often where his dogs always have each other.

Just reading the above post now maybe its because his energy level is higher because he is a poodle??? I wish there was other poodles close by.


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## sarahmurphy (Mar 22, 2012)

Cindyreef, there may be other poodles nearby. We've watched the forums here and we are in contact with several local poodle friends. Ask at your vet, the pet store, etc, to see who might have Poodles, and even consider putting up a flyer and creating your own poodle playgroup. Don't feel bad about excluding other breeds. If you had an Autistic child, and wanted to create a playgroup for your child, you might not accept a kid with Down's Syndrome. Yes, they are both differently abled, but an Autistic kid might not want to be touched, and most kids with Down's are pretty tactile.... not a good mix if your point is socialization with like animals. 

I am also not a fan of dog parks, and am, in fact, terrified of unknown dogs, personally. (as in that freeze up and can't even speak, might even pee my pants, sort of terror and not that "Oh, I am worried someone will get hurt" sort of "terror"). I do not approach unknown dogs, and I flip out if they approach me. I'm wary of many that I really do know, and know to be harmless, even. I got a dog originally so I did not pass my fear on to my children. I avoid dog parks so I do not pass my fear onto my dog - because everyone seems to think I am a "Dog Lover" because I happen to have a well behaved canine at the end of a leash, which is in my hand... I wish people would realise that I am willing to have MY DOG in my lap, in my face, licking, playing, kissing, whatever - I am NOT WILLING to have EVERY DOG do that to me! (yeah, I pretty much hate the dog park and let my husband do that if he wants...) 

I have made sure I reach out and find poodles and poodle people I like to hang out with on a pretty regular basis. Some we don't see too often because of the distance, but it's great when we do get together!


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Stella is very rough! Most of the time Carley refuses to play with her. I have found a young Lab and a Doby that can keep up with her though. No way could I turn her loose with a little dog like you have in your photo. Her first owner never did find a dog that was dog enough to handle her...


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## frankgrimes (Nov 28, 2011)

Ralph will play differently with different dogs. He copies their play style so they play with him. He does on occassion play roughly, like you describe. I think the key is he stops when the dog tells him off. Does your Poodle stop when told? There are some owners who I can tell are uneasy with Ralph, so we move on. Ralph will do almost anything to make himself desireable to the other dog so that he can get a play buddy. Sometimes he can be seen as a pest by other owners. We just walk ahead and leave them alone.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

cindyreef, I like sarahmurphy's idea for you. Do I recall that someone else introduced themselves around the same time as you from your town? I don't remember whether that person had a spoo or not though.

Meg you should make sure that if you do continue to use the dog park that you reinforce your commands under very distracting circumstances. If you can get a solid recall that your dog will listen to even when worked up you will probably give reassurance to those people who are nervous and you will be able to get your dog back to you if you see they are getting close to being into serious conflict with another dog (which I don't think it really sounds like is happening).

I actually think things are a bit safer if a "bossy" dog has a softer dog as a companion. The soft dog will not take the bait from an insistent, persistent dog. When Peeves decides he's had it he just walks away and generally Lily gives up. On the other hand when Lily has played with a certain high drive boy from CT, there was no giving up on either side. No violence and nothing close to a fight, but very, very intense play. For me, it was exhausting to watch. 

Someone I know has two drivey bitches (not poodles and both different breeds, but both herding group breeds) and one dog (same breed as one of the bitches). There were no problems until the younger bitch started to get bigger than the older one. They now had to break up nasty fights and change the way they leave all their dogs when not at home.

Many people who don't read canine body language well will read rough play as fighting. You need to really look at your dog's body language to understand his or her intent. Pay close attention to the other dogs around your dog to see how they read your dog's demeanor. I don't love all of the Cesar Milan stuff, but if you watch episodes where he brings dogs to his facility for rehab you can learn how to read the body language that dogs use when in groups.


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## Meg (Aug 1, 2010)

Thanks for the great response everyone. Thankfully Darcy has a great recall and will come even with high distraction. We practice it frequently at the park, when he gets over-excited and when I just want to reinforce his recall. I am watching him the entire time and can tell when an owner is concerned over his pushy play. When that happens I remove myself and Darcy from that area of the park. Darcy and Joey will follow me and sort of 'orbit' around me playing with nearby dogs so I can limit his interaction that way. 

Darcy does seem to know when a dog doesn't want to play and will leave a dog alone if the play isn't reciprocated. I have never seen any aggression manifest from either dog, mostly I think because Darcy can pick his partners fairly well. I will definitely be more mindful of his excitement level now though. I can get him to stop the play, but where I run into problems is that the other dog is often happy to play this way and will follow us and reinitiate play, which just re-triggers his climbing excitement level. I have no issues with a dog that wants to play but I can tell that some owners don't want their dog to play with a bigger, rougher dog (for example maybe they have a 35# dog and Darcy is 55#). 

I guess ideally the other owner should also practice a little obedience with thier dog, but thats usually not the case and I am stuck supervising my dog and thier dog too. Like I said in an earlier post, I'm not even certain when his rough and tumble play style started. He was quite shy and it took him a long time to warm up to strange dogs as a puppy. Now he's over-confident! I will work with him on being pushy with other dogs for his own safety. I'm glad to hear that some other poodle people have a dog that plays a little rough too, I thought I was a horrible mom. :shame:


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## Dawnsohma (Jan 24, 2013)

Esther plays rough teeth and all my chihuahua thinks she is annoying.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

yes, my Bonnie does....well, so does Jazz for that matter. Jazz grabs their tails and pulls. They don't hurt anyone. I don't go to the dog park much anymore, so it hasn't been an issue. At home they rough house together all the time.


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## TrueColors (Nov 18, 2012)

I find Jenna plays rough too. While playing with our neighbours dog she will chase the other dog relentlessly and pins her/runs over her to the ground and starts to nip at her ears and sides while standing over her not letting her go. I worry sometime that jenna could be hurting the other dog ( she's a smaller dog ) but she doesn't seem to mind


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

I suppose it helps being a tall guy with jeans, heavy boots, and light gloves at a dog park. I usually have no problem 'wading in' between an aggressor/over-exuberant dog and a cowering dog. 

It does the old 'pick play' on the aggressor and establishes a safe place on the other side of my legs for a dog that seems intimidated. *Some* of the time I can even distract the aggressor by giving them a new, fun target to play rough with . . . me! 

I have no real problems with dog parks. But I'm beginning to understand from some of the telling stories in this thread *saramurphy  lol* that there would be some people not at all comfortable with my attitude . . . 'coz they have a different attitude. And are perfectly entitled to it, BTW.  

So play dates would be perfect for them. 'Coz really, anywhere I can watch my favourite sport, Dogs Playing, would be just fine by me!


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

yes! Teddy is here for a visit and he is playing more rough with Ginger than ever! She gets really mad at him - I worry about a fight but he seems to listen when she really yells (barks loudly) at him. he is soooo excited when with her - I am really glad he has a happy new home where he can be more laid back because there are not other dogs with him. I would be afraid to take him to dog park


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Oh My, Yes! When we go to my Son's house (he has a Golden Ret. & a Yellow Lab) Molly plays as if she's a Pitty!LOL! What's funny is that they will tolerate it & indulge her by going into the 'down' position, so they don't tower over her! While she actually 'mauls' their necks & ears & any other loose body parts, they just 'mouth' her & shove her around with their noses. They are very gentle with her brattiness! But I also think she knows they 'could' hurt her!:croc:




This is Molly & Zoey!


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## Mikey'sMom (Feb 21, 2012)

My spoo plays rough at home with our mini...at least, it is rough given their size difference. He uses the drive-by tag (bash?) with his nose method, as well as mouthing the back of our mini's neck. He kind of runs all over the place and jumps up and down in front of our mini (although not ON him), while our mini stands in one spot and engages as the spoo runs past (with an occasional chase for good measure). My mini generally puts his head down when the spoo runs by (which gives the spoo a handy target to mouth) and mouths at the spoo's front legs, or rears up on his hind legs and flails at him with his front paws. Sometimes the mini hides next to (or under) our grill so he can fight from cover, too. They really don't wrestle though, just mouth. 

I was worried about my spoo's energetic playing not going over well at the dog park, since some owners/dogs seem ok with that kind of play and others not so much, but oddly, our spoo is a total chicken around unfamiliar dogs. He wants to play but doesn't seem to know how, so he stands on the edges of the activity and watches, and if another dog comes over he gets excited, but generally hides by my legs (generally body slamming my knees in the process, lol!). 

We do have to stop him at home with our mini sometimes, though. Our mini NEVER initiates the play, but he can be goaded into it and generally seems to have fun. Sometimes though, he runs for the rooms our spoo isn't allowed in, or sits/lies down while leaning away or looking away, or will roll onto his back and whine. We take that as our cue to help him out and redirect our spoo to something else. It is kinda odd, because our (older) mini is the alpha, but doesn't seem to know how to make the spoo stop...he'll sometimes nip a little harder when he has had enough, but it only deters our spoo for a few minutes, so he looks to us for help. It is odd...our mini can take toys, treats, etc from our spoo with no problem, but can't end the play fighting.


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## cindyreef (Sep 28, 2012)

Mikey'sMom said:


> Sometimes though, he runs for the rooms our spoo isn't allowed in, or sits/lies down while leaning away or looking away, or will roll onto his back and whine. We take that as our cue to help him out and redirect our spoo to something else. It is kinda odd, because our (older) mini is the alpha, but doesn't seem to know how to make the spoo stop...he'll sometimes nip a little harder when he has had enough, but it only deters our spoo for a few minutes, so he looks to us for help. It is odd...our mini can take toys, treats, etc from our spoo with no problem, but can't end the play fighting.


This sounds familiar. We only have one dog but 2 cats. One of the cats loves the spoo. He will look for attn. from him. But sometimes the spoo Dex will be too rough and the cat will whine and howl for help. I wish he would swat Dex and teach him a lesson in rough play but he wont. I don't understand why the cat puts up with it. It can be excessive. The other cat will not put up with it.


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