# Determining the best clip - Recommendations?



## OverTheTopFarm (Nov 13, 2010)

I am trying to determine what the most attractive clip is for this pup ... this is my new 11 month old standard poo ... he is registered AKC and UKC and is my new service dog. He is a medical alert dog so the plan is that he will eventually be with me 24/7. His public access is not yet ready but is getting closer every day. 

I do expect to show him conformation UKC and performance AKC and UKC just to keep things interesting for us. As a result, I don't need to keep him in any particular clip, as even in UKC conformation we have flexibility and don't have to do the CC (in the event we do that in the future).

When I first got him, he was completely shaved down for transportation across the country in a kennel (including his ears). I got really tired of people asking me if he is a labradoodle, so I promised I would keep him in a fru-fru trim so I wouldn't have to deal with that at all.

What I'm noticing, is that he is starting to really bulk up, obviously both age and increase in hair contributes to that. He has REALLY nice coat ... curls without matting. I did a crummy job blowing him out with a shop vac and it only lasted a day, hindered by the snow and rain. When I blow out the curls, his body hair is probably about 3" long now.

I do not believe, unless I get a better dryer, that I will keep him blown out all the time; I fear the weather will likely re-convert it to curly. so I need a trim that will look good both blown out and curley.

In looking at him, I would like something that makes him look a little "finer" ... but I do not want to shave him all the way down again. I'm looking for something that definitely differentiates him from a labradoodle. He appears to be relatively square in build, and his major fault is what I would call a low tail set ... so it would be nice to have something that doesn't make that look so obvious. He normally does hold his tail upright, but he's been working on free stacking and his feet were SUPER cold in the 18 degree weather and snow.

In these photos, his feet, face, and tail need done as well as his body. I'm not really afraid to try anything ... it's hair and it will grow back. Although we will have our first really big trip including an airplane ride the end of January, so if it goes badly, hopefully it can be fixed by then. 

What would you recommend? Just realized the snow really messed with the lighting on my camera


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

To be honest the easiest trim is to shave the body down short (especially along his topline) and leave his legs long so he still looks elegant...

See: 








She has around half an inch on her body there and certainly still looks poodle-y. It's serviceable for being out and about with not toooo much hair, and cos it's shorter it won't look so floppy and labradoodle-ish when it curls. 
Short ears and tail are optional of course, and tweaking it to suit his conformation etc, but it's a nice trim that's not too hard to do.


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

Here is a link that I found very helpful when attempting something along the lines of what FD suggested:

Groomers BBS: How to - The Modern?

Keeping the hips, belly/chest and upper rear legs pretty short will help him look more refined. You will create a squarer look if you leave the backs of the front legs and the fronts of the back legs a little longer (visually shortening the distance between them).


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

I started this one recently, it was easy and can be kept in any length. I have him at about an inch right now. I think he looks poodle-like and kind of sporty. Definitely an improvement over the continental he had previously. This boy also is a bit on the bulky side and also has a low tail set (among other "faults" lol) though I think he's beautiful of course  

Sorry neither of these photos are the best but i forgot to photo the groom i di today, which is closer to the finished look. i photo almost every groom 'cause i'm weird like that lol. anyway, these are the best i could come up with


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## OverTheTopFarm (Nov 13, 2010)

*Thanks for the responses*

A lot of beautiful dogs here! The kennel clip is an obvious choice, and I see I can dress it up a bit. The most recent post with the black poo is very nice and gives me an opportunity to kind of talk about what I'm looking for. Please, pretty please, do not take anything I am saying personally.

Thank you so much for posting that clip because it illustrates what I'm wondering. I like the possibility of a more "sculpted" clip, but I wonder if the band in the middle makes the dog look shorter in length? And if the bands on the legs make the legs look even stockier? Not necessarily on your particular dog, but I'm wondering if it would on mine? 

So ... if you have a dog with a somewhat low tailset (as mine has) ... you could groom to make that less obvious by: __________________. Is that cutting the topline a little shorter from the croup back and then making a more vertical line from the base of the tail down (which would end up quite close to point of buttocks) in order to make the tail set less obvious.

I like the section that talks about if you have a dog that is slightly long in the back you could leave the hair longer on the back side of the front legs and front side of the back legs in order to make the dog's back appear shorter. 

What other conformation faults here could you help to enhance? I think he actually has a pretty good neck, but the point of his breast (what is that called?) seems kind of forward ... would growing out the hair on the chest make that less obvious? 

I really wish they hadn't docked his tail so short ... is it better to just take it for what it is and make it an almost round pom pom or should I do a skinnier band at the base of the tail and try to make it a longer pom pom?

Anyway ... you get the picture. I guess I'm kind of using this guy as a conformation example for what you would do in grooming to enhance what he's got and hide what needs to be hid. I also am looking at putting him into some kind of a clip that would make him look good.


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

Hehehe, No worries. He's only "my dog" twice a month when his real mommy is sick oh him and needs a break (and he needs a haircut) She does by the way give me permission to use my photos of his grooms in case anyone wonder's why I have only ever posted photos of him and two other's when talking about grooming. 

I don't think it makes him look shorter but I look at him all the time. Also since he is strictly a pet and just wants a fancier than a lamb/modern type trim I doubt it matters much. His owner thinks he could be a show dog except it his coat is to soft. Yup, she said that to me not to long after I got my silver girl. I just shrugged and thought to myself Ok, sure, we'll go with that reason  

I think the bands on the legs DO make him look a bit stockier which he needs, he is kind of fine boned in person with a chunky-ish head. By the bulky comment above I ment his noggin and the fact that he frequently carries a bit of extra weight  Sahve him down and he's got chicken legs.  He also has almost no neck, that is ALL hair shaped and scissored and blended into his TK to make is look like he has a neck. I've shaved this guy down twice and have been grooming him every three weeks or so for two years now. I see him a lot and know his shape well. He also has no chest at all, that too is just hair to give kind of give the illusion of a chest and a better shoulder placement. His momma asked me once why show dog's coats came further out in front (chest) than his did so I started leaving more since she likes the look. So I guess what I'm saying is that with enough hair you can make almost any shape you want (within reason). 

Just a side note, I think the angle of the second photograph makes him look shorter b/c it's neither looking down or looking in profile if that makes sense. 

Here is a different view of the same dog partial shave down ummmm maybe April of 09. I had to shave his jacket but she begged and pleaded to keep the big huge bracelets and rosettes and keep him in the pattern. I do what I;m told, customer is always right kind of thing  He's actually in this photo got his head pulled straight up like he would if he were on a tight leash, even though the grooming loop is loose, and it makes him look like he has a bit more neck. The jacket here was set just behind the last rib and the rosettes are in the point of the hip neighborhood and are kind of big I think. One of those always learning and tweaking type haircuts. I think you can also see that his tail isn't quite as low as that second photo makes it appear, but it IS low. 


I don't know how to explain what I tried to do about my dog in the photo to minimize his low tail set. For you're dog, were he mine, I might just do a plume tail but I'm lazy and you'd probably get doodle questions about that = no good. With shorter tails in general I shave about a finger's width around the base (longer tails get two fingers) and I try and grow the hair on the tip of the tail longer and shape that into more of an oval leaning towards round pom. Assuming the hair cooperates and isn't so soft that it just falls flat (like my silver dog)

I can say that shorter backed dog's look better (IMO) in dutch various (band around the middle) than do longer backed dogs. To adjust the illusion of length simple adjust how wide the band is. The one on the dog above is a little on the wider side. I could do it narrower though if I so desired.


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

OverTheTopFarm said:


> So ... if you have a dog with a somewhat low tailset (as mine has) ... you could groom to make that less obvious by: __________________. Is that cutting the topline a little shorter from the croup back and then making a more vertical line from the base of the tail down (which would end up quite close to point of buttocks) in order to make the tail set less obvious.


Take the topline (along the spine) as short as you can. Like I'm talking a 1/4" or less if that's what it takes. All the way along though, not just from the croup back. You can do a sloping topline only if your'e going for the show puppy style, otherwise stick to a level topline only swooping up just behind the withers into a nice neck. Don't cut in a more vertical line from the tail down, slope it out more and it'll look like the tail is sitting up on the pelvis more (sloping it down more will make the ass end fall off under the tail. Look at show dogs, they have a 'shelf' sticking out under the tail; create a false one of hair a bit!)



OverTheTopFarm said:


> I like the section that talks about if you have a dog that is slightly long in the back you could leave the hair longer on the back side of the front legs and front side of the back legs in order to make the dog's back appear shorter.


In the same idea you want to leave more hair on the back of the neck too to shorten the visual 'gap' in the middle (between the back of the neck & the tail, and between the legs)



OverTheTopFarm said:


> What other conformation faults here could you help to enhance? I think he actually has a pretty good neck, but the point of his breast (what is that called?) seems kind of forward ... would growing out the hair on the chest make that less obvious?


that chest sticking out is GOOOOOD; a lot of poodles lack in that decent chest in the front, and it's built up from hair. You want to enhance that; have a big proud chest puffing out the front (so to speak)



OverTheTopFarm said:


> I really wish they hadn't docked his tail so short ... is it better to just take it for what it is and make it an almost round pom pom or should I do a skinnier band at the base of the tail and try to make it a longer pom pom?


Still shave in the same bit on the bottom. If you shave a smaller band it really makes it look dumpy, and will only sit his tail lower [visually] on his body too, so keep the band the same and grow the tail out a bit. it may be he can never have a big poofy tail. Or go for the carrot tail. it's classy and nice too...


A better pic would be easier, but I'll see if I can edit yours a bit....







I took hair OFF his topline, & shelf, the back of his back legs, his throat and his tuck up. I put hair ON the front of his back legs and the back of his front legs (and a slight fill on the front to even it up) a little on his chest both underneath and at the front, his hocks and the back of his neck & topknot.

Obviously not all of that hair coming off will be possible as I really don't know his actual structure under the fluff so it would have to be tweaked as you go, but it gives you the idea I'm thinking of anyway!!!

it ends up with him looking finer and more elegant and leggy... And poodley!

For best effect, right click the attachment and 'open in new tab' [or similar], and do the same for your original pic. Then flick quickly between them to see the changes. lol


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

This is an excellent example FD! I just did some of it on Olie. It needs work but what a difference!! When you are a home groomer these are things that are touch to achieve without hands on examples.


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## OverTheTopFarm (Nov 13, 2010)

*Here's an Update ... Finally clipped him today*

After I started this thread, I didn't end up clipping at all, just groomed and brushed out and let it grow. However, even here in WA where the temperature is around 35-55 degrees F, and I keep my house at about 66 degrees, he was frequently hot; and with his purpose as a medical alert dog, I feel most comfortable when he is in bed with me at night to wake me up (although even from the floor he gets up and on the bed to wake me when necessary at night). 

Anyway ... here are some updated photos. Boy a good photo of a black dog is very difficult! I used my white kitchen cabinets as a backdrop hoping it would help. In order to get the whole dog, I had to be too far back to see much detail, but hopefully you can see him better in this photo than the last.

I decided I wanted to put him in a lamb cut ... not too short in body, and not too full in legs. I was actually amazed at the dog I had underneath all that hair, he's actually not that bad!

Here he is in my backseat in between stores Christmas shopping, then before grooming and after the lamb clip.


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