# breeding to blue



## louise40 (Oct 15, 2012)

Hi everyone
I am a new miniature poodle breeder in Australia, and I have come across a bit of a predicament.
A couple of years ago, I bought my first 2 black miniature poodles (one dog, one bitch, form different lines) with the intention of breeding when they were old enough. Both of them have excellent pedigrees, and I was very careful to do my research before I purchased. I only wanted the best dogs to breed from. However, an issue has arisen in that my female who I love to pieces is fading something shocking. :alberteinstein: I contacted her breeder, who was very surprised and suggested there is a possibility that she could be blue.
Unfortunately I don't know a lot about blue poodles. of course my first priority is to breed for health and temperament, but what happens now with my breeding program?
Are there big NO NO's as to what colours you can breed blue poodles to? Can I still breed her to my black sire?
I am in the process of having her colour tested, but to be honest I' a little worried about the results. Really need some help here.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Blue is an absolutely gorgeous color and you can certainly breed blue to black! I do not think that there is a genetic test that can distinguish blue from black. But genetic testing can tell you if either or both of your dogs carry a cream gene or a brown gene.

My understanding is that you would not want to breed a blue (or a silver) to red or brown as this would introduce a fading gene into those lines. But others know more than I do about color genetics. I hope they will contribute.

Zyrcona has been very helpful on this forum on issues of poodle color genetics. If she doesn't respond to this thread, you might want to try sending her a PM.

Best of luck to you in your breeding.


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## louise40 (Oct 15, 2012)

thanks for your help, it's really appreciated.
My little girl has blue, cream and white behind her, and my sire is all black with one brown in his pedigree. Any ideas on possible puppy colours?


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## Liafast (Apr 9, 2011)

Here is a great link to poodle breeding colors.

COLOR BREEDING IN POODLES


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

louise40 said:


> thanks for your help, it's really appreciated.
> My little girl has blue, cream and white behind her, and my sire is all black with one brown in his pedigree. Any ideas on possible puppy colours?


My guess is that you would have all black and blue. Cream/white is recessive, so both parents would need to carry the cream gene in order to produce a cream or white puppy. That's possible but unlikely if there is no cream/white in one of the pedigrees. Similarly, brown is recessive, so both parents would need to carry the brown gene to produce a brown pup. For more information and a very helpful chart, see this page:

VetGen Colour Test - Poodles in Scandinavia

You can have your dogs tested to see if they carry the cream or the brown gene.


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## louise40 (Oct 15, 2012)

Thank you liafast. I have visited that link a number of times; it has some brilliant info!


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

The breeder of my two dogs just bred a black to a beautiful steel blue dog. Yes, you can do it. Blue is a color just like black is a color. I would guess you would get a mixture of blues and blacks since the sire doesn't have any light colors (you sure about that?). The only caveat is if your fading girl is not truly a blue, but is a 'bad black'. Blue is a gorgeous color. Fading black not so much, but it is only color, after all. Health, temperament, structure and then color.


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

Reds already have a fading gene (that as yet unidentified and theorized about only "fading gene") as they all fade in varying degrees.

Blue is a beautiful color, and if the dog or bitch has conformation, health and temperment desired, should not be feared.

Litter of 13 - incredible blue male - blue when face shaved at 3 weeks - bred to a red bitch who was a lovely red at 5 produced 4 black that are still night black at 2, 6 apricots that are deeply colored and 3 blues that were blue when I shaved faces at 3 -4 weeks.

Evaluate your goals and don't be afraid to move beyond wives tails and fears that keep many in "the box".

Best Wishes,

Tabatha
NOLA Standards

PS The apricot male from the blue x red breeding produced 7 red pups with fabulous black points out of a (faded as they all do) red girl. Pups are 14 weeks and are darker now than at birth.


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