# Pit Bull in the Park.



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Eric this is an excellent article! I learned something new too! I wasn't aware that a break stick should only be used on pits....I guess I kinda thought you could use the same method on any dog that had a grip on your dog.....how wrong I was!!!! Thank you for the article!


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

I don't agree about the whole "its the owner not the dog thing". My daughters boyfriend got a pitt that was 8 weeks old. That puppy came in, growled seriously at me, went after the cats and my dogs (this was before we had Misha). He had serious problems, but her boyfriend and his family were dog people and had another Pitt at home and thought with proper socialization and training they could handle it. When the pup was just 4 months old it latched on to the other pitts throat and when the dad tried to get him off, he latched onto the dads hand and ripped it to the bone. So they gave him to a woman who specializes in Pitts and rehab, and has helped many "red zone" dogs. Well, this pup attacked her, 3 times! The humane society confiscated the dog and destroyed it. 

A friend in Norco heard a commotion in his back yard and went out and the pitt next door had their 18 month old in its mouth and was shaking her like a rag doll. He jumped the fence and was able to get the baby away. This Pitt had grown up with this child and was socialized. The baby walked out into the yard and the Pitt just snapped. 

I don't care how well socialized they are, and I know there are many sweet loving pitts. I sure as heck wouldn't trust one around my other animals or my grand child. I don't care how wonderful the dog and/or it's owner is. I am not willing to take that chance.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

N2Mischief The articles addressed your same thought that pits could attack at any time even if socialized and raised with other dogs and children ....it was a very honest article about the natural behaviors of pitbulls..........I personally would never own one, I hear too many stories just like yours, right here in S.D.!!!


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

very interesting that owners with a lot of experience with the breed and who obviously love their dogs were adamant that pits are bred to be aggressive and essentially need to be protected from themselves. spot on. even that infamous pitbull advocate cesar millan has stated that he has not trained his dog, junior, in guarding activities because he does not want him to be in touch with his aggressive side. funny how people have no trouble recognizing that in herding dogs the instinct to herd prevails, among sight hounds, prey drive will prevail, but when it comes to dogs bred to fight, some claiming expertise re dog behavior continue to claim that well, gee, you can turn them into soft, sweet love bugs. even the two female owners where i live, one with an akita and the other with a staffie, knew enough to warn off other owners with dogs from letting their dogs approach. neither dog was ever reported even once for any kind of aggression - but then, their owners carefully kept them away from situations that would bring out their aggressive instincts.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

I've had a lot more experience with other breeds than with poodles. I inherited a mini from my Mom who was devoted and rather smart. I trained GSDs and sight hounds. While training GSDs I came across a standard poodle, who was trained as a sniffer. But she also worked well in other areas and was the smartest dog I ever encountered. Now well retired And needing a dog as a companion and helper I chose a Spoo. She's been a handfull to train, in her early months, but is easy now and she lives to please. She has been well socialized with dogs and people but It is my opinion that a standard poodle is most like a sight hound with extra brains. And I think, if not socialized and trained, a spoo could be as aggressive as any dog. It is interesting that experienced pit bull owners, know well that their beloved breed have problems with dog aggression and advise others to forget about dog socialization and concentrate on human socialization, keeping the pitty away from other dogs and their provoking influence. This, I feel, shows that a pit bull owner, that takes his dog to a dog park is being irresponsible with his "time bomb". His more experienced peers say "keep your dog home and away from other dogs where possible and be prepared for severe dog aggression at any time."


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

I have to say I never heard this about pit bulls.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

I have to say I have never heard this about pit bulls. I appreciate reading it because my dog park has lots of pits or pit mixes. It's too bad the world has been overrun by this mixes of this breed rather than say, poodle mixes. Most of today's mutts have pittie like heads where none of the mutts when I was growing up were pit mixes. They were more rangy type dogs with moderate sized heads. I can't ever say that I was a pit lover but people have convinced me what awesome dogs they are.

pr


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I would never have a pit. I would not be afraid for myself, I would just not want the responsibility that comes with the breed. I don't think it is the way they are treated, it is bred into them and the breed has been ruined IMHO. My daughter was attacked by her friend's Pit and it was loved and treated like a child. My daughter did nothing wrong was just standing at the door waiting on her friend, she was not scared, did not try to pet it, NOTHING. It got her boot instead of her leg and she was okay, but that a was it for me and that breed.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I appreciated the link to that very informative article. I had never heard of a break stick and noted that the author advises every Pit Bull owner to have one. Pit Bulls are like loaded guns, and I can't tell you how refreshing it was to read a breed advocate practically say that. Keep your loaded gin in a locked gun safe, i.e. out of dog parks, so that there are no more horrific headlines or incidents that resurrect breed ban initiatives. Patk makes the important point that owners should not forget the purpose of a breed and then be surprised when it exhibits those instincts. I also believe that there can be "canine terrorists" in every breed, even Poodles. I would rather take my chances with a crazed Poodle than any of the guarding breeds... After my husband and late Scottie were attacked by two pit bulls, and survived, I became understandably prejudiced against the breed. After reading the article, I feel completely justified.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

I was intrigued and read the whole thread through. The scary thing is that there were some with young pits that insisted that their dogs would never do that in spite of people in there with years of experience in the breed warning them! See, it is the people, not the dogs. As pointed out, the dogs are just doing what they were bred to do.

I'm all for BSL. I'm sorry, I'm a home teamer and simply worry for _my_ family, not anyone's right to own a pit bull. Another alternative would be licensing. I'll group any breed in there in which a breaking stick is an accessory.

pr


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I've met a lot of Pit Bulls and they can be lovely dogs...very loyal to their families, people friendly and smart. They do not belong in a dog park. Yes, they were bred to fight other *animals*...and are very capable and strong. There are a lot of irresponsible dog owners who shouldn't own Pit Bulls. There are a lot of irresponsible people who shouldn't own a lot of animals. There are a ton of irresponsible breeders of these dogs who breed lousy temperamented dogs. They're very popular and anytime there's a trend, you get a lot of lousy examples of the breed. They should not be human aggressive, not the way they were bred. Only toward animals. HA and DA are two separate things entirely.

My son's dog is at least half Pit. We think she may have some GSD in her. She is extremely people friendly, very smart, she learns a new trick in a hot second...she's loving and trustworthy with all humans, any age, any size, whether she knows them or not. She is not dog aggressive and has had many doggie friends, lived with me for a couple of years...with my Doberman, two Chihuahuas and Lab. Perhaps because she is mixed with something else, she really doesn't show much, if any dog aggression....no more than any other dog. There have been a couple of dogs she didn't like. She is 14 years old and in all these years she's been one of the best dogs I've ever lived with.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I've met a lot of Pit Bulls and they can be lovely dogs...very loyal to their families, people friendly and smart. They do not belong in a dog park. Yes, they were bred to fight other *animals*...and are very capable and strong. There are a lot of irresponsible dog owners who shouldn't own Pit Bulls. There are a lot of irresponsible people who shouldn't own a lot of animals. There are a ton of irresponsible breeders of these dogs who breed lousy temperamented dogs. They're very popular and anytime there's a trend, you get a lot of lousy examples of the breed. They should not be human aggressive, not the way they were bred. Only toward animals. HA and DA are two separate things entirely.
> 
> My son's dog is at least half Pit. We think she may have some GSD in her. She is extremely people friendly, very smart, she learns a new trick in a hot second...she's loving and trustworthy with all humans, any age, any size, whether she knows them or not. She is not dog aggressive and has had many doggie friends, lived with me for a couple of years...with my Doberman, two Chihuahuas and Lab. Perhaps because she is mixed with something else, she really doesn't show much, if any dog aggression....no more than any other dog. There have been a couple of dogs she didn't like. She is 14 years old and in all these years she's been one of the best dogs I've ever lived with.


That's why these mixed breeds are a crapshoot of what traits they are going to display. Not only is there the problem of the purebred amstafs, etc, we have A LOT of mixing of the bully breeds. So perhaps your mix did not display this inbred trait of pit bulls to be animal aggressive... it's a roll of the dice. I will not bring my Poodle back to a dog park after what I learned here from EXPERIENCED Pit Bull people who truly care about their breed. Do you think that anyone of these people int he dog park with their pit mixes even know what a break stick is much less carry one? They have names like Dixiecup and they were adopted from rescues/shelters and nobody is educated. Sorry, Piper, we are NOT going in there again, and I'm just thankful that nothing happened. 

One of the breeders on that forum makes her puppy buyers sign contracts promising not to bring her dogs to dog parks. She said she gets some nasty emails about it but it makes it easy to weed out the no-go's. 

pr


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

I also read the thread right through (large thread with a lot of interest) And yes there were those who in the face of many years of breed experience and good advise, stated that they will still take their young and unknown dogs to a dog park. They are SO sure their little "cupcake" will be well behaved. Sadly we see the same behaviour in parents. "my little Johnny would never do that". It is the irresponsible dog and child parents that are the real problem. I have seen pittys that have been much loved family pets for years, destroyed because of an attack on one of their own family, after years of good behaviour. They are little time bombs just waiting for their fuse to be lit. As for all the mixes I'm sure they could throw any or all ways. (anyone seen a poopit?) As a policeman/fireman in a previous life I noticed a lot of "low life" people chose pits and pit mixes. "Look at my tough dog I feel tough too".
Eric


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

one of the problems i have with the common wisdom "it's the owner, not the dog" idea with regards to pits is that it has come to be associated with proper training of the dog. the underlying assumption is that a well-trained dog will have no problems living in human society and it's up to the owner to "socialize" the dog and teach proper behavior. in the case of pits, however, this leads to many owners deceiving themselves about the nature of the breed. i met a young couple years ago at a dog park with two young pits, male and female. they were walking around telling people that pits "get a bad rap" - a common theme in recent years. the female's face was scarred. we asked what had happened. the answer "rough play." forgive me if i then tried mentally to calculate the iq of the owners.

i thought it was notable that in the thread about pits one of the owners even referred to cesar millan, the pitbull advocate, as an idiot for thinking he could really ultimately control the breed's genetic disposition toward aggression. several american military services have banned specific breeds in base housing. i suspect that is based on experience. 

sadly, i doubt one can ultimately control who owns pitbulls. even people who lay claim to expertise about dogs can't seem to understand that there are times when nurture cannot overcome nature. what can one expect of those who have no expertise?


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Patk, you always manage to say what I mean! You are much better with words than I, you sure are able to grasp exactly what I am thinking!


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

mischief, you know the old saying, great minds think alike! :biggrin1:


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

We well might be able to legislate and enforce the expulsion of dangerous breeds from our populous society. I sincerely doubt that any amount of legislation or enforcement would do this for the kind of people who own a known dangerous animal and expose other peoples children (and dogs) to the dangers. If you take away their pit/crosses and others, they will take up some other antisocial threat. What is more, that kind of person might well own a spoo and have it behave antisocially. I have no problems with people owning lions, tigers, gorillas or pit bulls. Keep them safe and keep us safe from them!
Eric.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

i think it would be very difficult in the u.s. recently a town in the u.s. was persuaded to lift its ban on pits - to the great joy of pit owners. the owners who really understand the nature of their dogs and don't subscribe to the knee-jerk "it's a bad rap; it's the owner, not the dog" softshoe would still probably agree there should be no ban - mainly because they would be the ones suffering. read through multiple threads at pf and you will see that even in a group as relatively small as this, as soon as a specific interest appears to be threatened by a law, or even suggestion, people with a vested interest dig in their heels. in the end no one is willing to sacrifice anything if it's his/her ox being gored. sorry if that seems a bit dark in outlook, but that understanding of human nature is, in fact, at the heart of the federalist papers. the founding fathers of the u.s. had no illusions.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

eric thank you for that interesting link. It should be required reading for all pit owners or wannabe owners. It is very helpful to those of us who live in areas with lots of pitties. I know one or two nice ones, but mostly really don't care for them at all. N2M I think that the puppy you told of must have been neurologically damaged somehow. I've known of one or two dogs that just couldn't get past their profound behavioral problems that had histories of early age head injuries.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

ericwd9 said:


> We well might be able to legislate and enforce the expulsion of dangerous breeds from our populous society. I sincerely doubt that any amount of legislation or enforcement would do this for the kind of people who own a known dangerous animal and expose other peoples children (and dogs) to the dangers. If you take away their pit/crosses and others, they will take up some other antisocial threat. What is more, that kind of person might well own a spoo and have it behave antisocially. I have no problems with people owning lions, tigers, gorillas or pit bulls. Keep them safe and keep us safe from them!
> Eric.


Keep in mind that those experienced Pit Bull owners were pretty much in agreement that their PB's had a propensity towards aggression to other dogs and animals but NOT humans. I think that's an important point. 

pr


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## Pella (Oct 7, 2014)

This is a tough thread for me to read, because I am currently fostering a "Pit Bull mix" named Matilda;










I decided to foster her because she had an intelligent look in her eye, and a softness that I thought meant she would listen well. Now that I've had her for about 6 weeks, I like "Pit Bulls" more than I did before I had her; she's a very loyal, intelligent, sensitive dog. My 9 lb terrier has been aggressive towards her (only happened a few times and now I keep them separated all the time to be safe) and she backs out of his space and makes eye contact with me. He's lunged at her snapping and she did nothing, where probably my 9lb mini Poodle that I had for 12 years would have at least snarled back. 

She regularly plays with my boyfriend's 20lb hound mix and you can see her actively compensating for the fact that she's bigger than he is. And when he tries to take space, she lets him. I have been consistently impressed with how much she understands about playing with smaller dogs. 

She's very cuddly, and learns incredibly fast (though not quite Poodle fast to be fair). 

We've had 2 incidences with her where she got very scared and barked at someone and then hid. One time she clicked her teeth too. Both were within 4 days of her arriving here, when she was still completely overwhelmed. These incidences have earned her the diagnosis of being a "shy dog" which means she may be at higher risk of biting someone if not managed properly... but it has nothing to do with aggression--her first instinct is to take space when scared. She hides, she doesn't attack. I think it has more to do with her lack of socialization in her first home than with her breeding. (She's currently 1 year 9 months old.)

Knowing what a great dog she's been up until now, I'm not totally comfortable reading this thread and saying nothing. Two of my horsey friends have "Pit Bulls" and absolutely adore the breed. When I look up "Pit Bulls" what I see as part of the breed description is that they were originally bred to guard royal children. They were highly trusted dogs. (I don't know that the breed we know of as "Pit Bulls" today retains the characteristics they had when bred to guard royal children.)

I am a Poodle person through and through, and I have felt some of the breed stigma that goes along with being responsible for a Pit Bull. It's anxiety provoking. I feel more comfortable with Poodles for sure. And it's hard to shake off all the stories shared in this thread about Pit Bull attacks, out of nowhere. It's scary to think that so many humans would own them and not know much about reading their body language. 

The rescue that I am fostering Tilda through is based in NYC where "Pit Bulls" are very very popular. They've armed me with Grisha Stweart's "The Ahimsa Dog Training Manual". I think nonviolent training is especially important with "Pit Bulls" and even more so with "Pit Bull" rescues, IN PART BECAUSE IT EMPHASIZES READING THE DOG'S BODY LANGUAGE. I don't know enough about Pits as a breed to know if body language lessons on Canines would prevent a lot of these attacks or not. But I know the rescue emphasized it to me. They also sent me this link on 



 which I think is really great for anyone with a dog to read. It again emphasizes reading the dog's body language. 

I have a problem with this whole thread though to be honest, because "Pit Bull" is such a loose term these days. Matilda might be a purebred "Pit Bull" and then again so is this guy;










They have some similarities, but they certainly don't conform to a breed standard. I think the fact that there's multiple breeds that are considered "bully" breeds makes for murky waters. Certainly it makes an impression on me when breed aficionados are saying they could attack at any time...they certainly know more than I do. At the same time I am uncomfortable with dismissing the whole entire group of bully dogs as 'dangerous.' I can't do that after the incredible kindness I've seen in Matilda. 

I agree that it's a 'breed' that's been incredibly overpopularized, and bred irresponsibly, and 'ruined.' I also agree SO MUCH that I so often see lower income people, and people living not so law-abiding lives choosing Pits in order to look 'tough.' Nothing could make me sadder. Maybe ten years ago a friend of mine had a roommate that worked at a bar that got a Pit Bull puppy and then left it in it's crate all the time and let it out to pee/poop maybe twice a day. She worked long shifts, had a "boyfriend" and should never ever have gotten ANY dog. This poor dog had gone through hell being in this crate for maybe a month when my friend the roommate intervened. We took turns taking care of the dog while our humane society figured out what to do. When I went over there to take care of this dog, she was so cuddly and thankful, not aggressive. Again...I know I can't speak for the whole breed, and maybe when she got older those aggressive instincts kicked in, I don't know...but the two times I've had "Pit Bulls" in my life I have been blown away by how forgiving they are. 

I do agree about dog parks being awful. And more so than with other dogs I wouldn't take Matilda because it may scare people, and if the breed is known for aggression when it's least expected then, all the more reason. A long time ago I took my mini Poodle to the dog park and a Rottweiler picked her up in his mouth and carried her around like a chew toy. She was never as dog social or confident after that. The owner really didn't care. I don't know that that dog was really even 'aggressive', I just think he hadn't been properly socialized to play with smaller dogs. 

Also, just a quick note; I was told the best way to break up a dog fight is to pull the dog backwards by its hips. I don't know if that's the "correct" way or not, but the rescue told me it's safer than grabbing their collars and you're less likely to get bitten. I don't know if anyone else knows more about that?


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

This is an experience I had personally just a few weeks ago.

http://www.poodleforum.com/7-genera...7-why-rules-dont-apply-you-3.html#post1497641

The pit bull in question was a fun loving, exuberant dog any dog lover could love. He played well and was popular with all the other dogs at the park. He radiated fun and happiness. He changed his behavior very suddenly, made his attack and then got on with the job of having fun with the other dogs. I spoke to the owner. He said something like "don't all dogs do that, like when they take offense at something??" This sudden change in behavior and the change back to placid dogs seems to be a well known characteristic of Pit bulls and some of their crosses. Apparently for some it happens rarely or not at all. Also aggressive behavior is usually confined to aggression toward other dogs. They are incredibly appealing and loving human pets. But the clock ticks and it only takes once, for a much loved dog, to severely injure another, then have to be put down. We then have two dogs gone and two owners grieved. Protect them and protect us from them!!
Eric.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

the 70-pound pit mix that attacked a 70+-year-old size 2 petite woman at my condo complex did so unexpectedly and without provocation. her owner was holding the leash while also holding the gate open so her husband could put something in their truck. the older woman walked by down the middle of the alleyway. the dog broke loose and attacked her, no warning. this was a dog that had previously gotten out of its yard a couple of times and been totally harmless when caught by the security guard. i was the president of my condo board at the time and heard all the details, including being treated to various descriptions of the blood in the alley way by other owners who later went by. i also heard the, frankly, bs comments by an idiot neighbor and his wife who repeated the old, "it's not the dog, it's the owner" line. i ferried the woman who had been attacked back and forth to the doctor several times for treatment by her doctor. it was pitiful to hear her talk about the fact that she would have scars for life and to hear her say, "i want my life back." the owners of the dog were horrified by what had happened. i visited the wife and daughter the evening of the incident (trying to find out to which hospital the attacked neighbor had been taken) and they were clearly shaken. they feared the dog after that incident and eventually the husband decided to put the dog down. 

was the dog evil? i don't think anyone could say that. it was, in fact, a beloved pet. but for whatever reason, at a specific moment, it attacked a person who posed no threat - was not, in fact, remotely interested in the dog, just trying to take her daily walk. so pits may originally have been bred to be dog aggressive and not human aggressive, but if one assumes the breed has been ruined by bad breeding, perhaps one should not assume they are not human aggressive. if one is determined to have a pit bull, the best one can do by the dog is follow the advice of the owners in the pit bull forum. assume aggression that needs to be carefully managed, even if the dog seems as sweet as sugar.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Well said patk, and Pella, There are a lot of pit bulls and their crosses in shelters, both for the reasons given here and because the TYPE of people that sometimes take on pittys have their ups and downs. You are to be commended for rescuing this very appealing dog. But be aware. Read the post linked to this thread, from experienced pit bull owners who love the breed. Take note of what they say about their dogs and protect Matilda from harm.
Eric.


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## Pella (Oct 7, 2014)

Eric,

Thank you for your concern--it certainly does take a lot more management to have her around than it ever did to have my Poodle. And I am certainly taking in what the more experienced Pit Bull people have said. The 'loaded gun' analogy makes sense to me. I am also guessing that ymmv when it comes to the pit mixes. Fingers crossed I can finish out the fostering experience without any mishaps.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Last night I read the entire thread and felt like I had entered an alternative universe. "Responsible" owners taking their dogs to industrial parks, empty sports fields, tennis courts or even 'No dogs allowed' places so they wouldn't encounter other dogs. We aspire to MPS and they advise that it's only a matter of time before an attack in a MPB house. "We run our house like a prison now" after a horrific two pet fight. A dog named Sweet Pea, with a nickname Peasus the Anti-Christ. "Anyways, so my dog killed the neighbor's dog and had to be put down"... "They're right to be afraid of our dogs"... Chilling. Graduate Matilda from your kindly foster care ASAP.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Pella, You did hear correct info on breaking up a dog fight. I have had to do this many times with my girls. You take hold of the back legs, lift and drag out. It is very easy if the other dog is not coming forward. My cream got attacked while on vacation, I grabbed the other dog and it stopped fighting to figure out what had it and gave Stella time to bolt. I was not strong enough to not let the dog get away and it chased her, and I lost Stella ! Thankfully, she is a poodle and was sitting by my car at the rental house...

Also, the attack on my daughter was only the first time the dog got her. It happened a 2nd time as well. The owners just could not believe that she did not do something to the dog, they make excuses for the dog that it was upset because the man of the house was away on business and invited Leah over for dinner to get to know the dog. They promised to keep it on a leash and saved bits of raw steak for her to give to the dog while eating. The dog was very calm and friendly, they asked if she was okay for it to be taken off leash and she agreed. The dog jumped up on her , playful, not aggressive, but it scared her because of the time before when it bit her and she got stiff... it then changed and attacked her again. The man was able to get it off her , but she will forever have scars on her side. 

The woman got pregnant soon after and they put the dog down.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

patk said:


> but for whatever reason, at a specific moment, it attacked a person who posed no threat - was not, in fact, remotely interested in the dog, just trying to take her daily walk.


There is no way to know. Not until we know what the woman smelled like. And we will never know that. 

This is the big point that people seem never to take into account.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Country boy, I don't understand your comment. Yes, the older woman may have smelled different and so what.... I smell different when I have been playing with shelter dogs, cooking bacon or just got out of the spa and that does not mean that a dog should attack me. Could you explain your thoughts on this?


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

That's what the pit bull thread warns. Some dangerous situations can be avoided, like Pits in dog parks. Other times you don't know why and you have 2 seconds to respond to a red zone pit bull.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

We wonder why in each case of a dog attack. Sudden movement, distraction, fear biting, territorial... why did the dog bite?

The one thing we never take into account is scent. Was there a smell that the dog didn't like. A rhetorical question, really... 'cos we can't know. But in some cases, we should at least remember to include it as a possible motivator for an attack.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

by that logic, someone's gait or whether they were breathing hard could be the reason for an attack. i see the attack itself as just about on the same level of insanity as that of humans beating a homeless person for being homeless. whether it's the dog or the human miscreant, the propensity to attack a human being for simply existing is evident - and not likely to win friends and supporters, to put it mildly.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Funny timing. My son wanted to get a new phone today, so I went with him. We are driving out of our neighborhood and come upon a small woman walking 3 tiny chihuahua's. Out from nowhere runs a huge Pitt and goes after her dogs. She had a stick and proceeded to beat the Pitt upside the head. It startled him. Before he could regroup, my son and I had jumped out of his truck and my son had his knife out and ready. The Pitt was trying to get around my son and I but my son kept blocking him. I grabbed his collar (he wasn't going after humans, just the dogs and they were now about 15 feet away now). I held onto the Pitt long enough for the woman with the chi's to RUN away. The poor woman didn't say a word, just looked terrified. 

Once again, a loose Pitt Bull terrorizing the neighborhood.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

what happened once you let the dog go?


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

He was now stopping traffic and cars were backed up. He seemed confused and didn't go after the woman. We had waited quite a bit for her to get around the corner and a ways away.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> Funny timing. My son wanted to get a new phone today, so I went with him. We are driving out of our neighborhood and come upon a small woman walking 3 tiny chihuahua's. Out from nowhere runs a huge Pitt and goes after her dogs. She had a stick and proceeded to beat the Pitt upside the head. It startled him. Before he could regroup, my son and I had jumped out of his truck and my son had his knife out and ready. The Pitt was trying to get around my son and I but my son kept blocking him. I grabbed his collar (he wasn't going after humans, just the dogs and they were now about 15 feet away now). I held onto the Pitt long enough for the woman with the chi's to RUN away. The poor woman didn't say a word, just looked terrified.
> 
> Once again, a loose Pitt Bull terrorizing the neighborhood.



You and your son are heros!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

In case you think I'm excusing the dog for an attack, I'm not. 

Simply trying to make the point that when something goes awry with a dog... we want to know what it saw, what it touched, what triggered the action. But 'coz it doesn't cross our minds, we almost never imagine that an action could be triggered by a smell. 

We should imagine it.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Countryboy said:


> In case you think I'm excusing the dog for an attack, I'm not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, I don't wonder - any dog that is going to live in our society ought to be able to handle any sight, touch, or smell that comes along (other than overt aggression directed at itself or it's family) without reacting with aggression.
You remind me of a Pitbull puppy and owner that got into the elevator with me once. I looked at the puppy and said "hello puppy", where upon the puppy leapt into the air, grabbing my entire jaw and part of my cheek in it's mouth. Fortunately it didn't latch on, it let go and dropped back to the ground. So I looked at the owner and said "oh my, are you going to be taking some training classes with him?" And he responded "I really think that it isn't training that he needs, people need to stop over stimulating him when I have him out" 
So I guess that you agree with that guy, that I triggered the puppy to grab my face?


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

"awry with a dog"
Things go awry with dogs all the time, with most all dogs. Young and exuberant puppies might react one way, older well trained dogs another. Pit Bulls, and some crosses, are quite simply, well known, for unpredictable, aggressive behavior. Some all the time, some rarely and some not at all. This kind of Russian roulette should not be played out in public. period.
Eric.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Tiny Poodles said:


> So I guess that you agree with that guy, that I triggered the puppy to grab my face?


I'm confused as hell. What are you people going on about. How many times do I have to tell you that I'm putting this out as a HUMAN fault. To not consider all factors that influence a dog.

What is all this nonsense about an elevator and what does that have to do with any of my replies?


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

puffing up and talking loudly may work in front of a market, but it doesn't work here! :lol:


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Countryboy, likes to be right, He generally is. He perceives than someone is belittling him. This is not really true. Its just that someone disagrees with him and he wants to keep the subject on his track and not wandering away. He always sees sense and he does have a good understanding of dog-dog interactions. That includes pit bulls. His views are of value here.
Eric.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

cb also has a mischievous streak and likes to stir things up a bit. he sometimes throws out "bait" for the unsuspecting.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

N2 you and your son ARE heroes! A collar grab by you was tremendously brave and I thank God you were successful! Add a break stick it your Christmas list 
This is an unstable breed, canine nitroglycerin. As someone on the pb thread posted, 'thank your lucky stars if you never experience DA'. I assume that means dog aggression but it could as easily be dangerous aggression.


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## Charlygrl2 (Mar 30, 2014)

This article was very informative and helpful. And I do believe that the responsibility is that of the owners. When we lost my little brother unexpectedly in May 2013 he had a pit mix that he adopted from his stepdaughter who could not handle her. Hippo is very sweet people and to the two small dogs my parents have however is very dog aggressive to any other dogs. The thought of losing Hippo was like losing a part Glenn again so we as a family made a safe environment for her with my parents. Within a week we had reinforced their stockade fence putting the six-foot panels back to back, adding a piece on top of that she could not break free from the backyard, added doors in the house so that when other dogs were over Hippo has a safe place. We worked with the trainer to get her accustomed to wearing a mask so my parents can take her on walks, they only do that very early in the morning to lessen the chance of interaction with other dogs. I think the responsibility is knowing your dog it's limitations, instincts and characteristics expecting them to be able to do or behave in way just because you want them to puts them and others in danger. We would love for Hippo to be able to interact with all of the other dogs when we go see grandma and grandpa however we know that even with training that is about situation to put her in. Long story short someone wants to own and aggressive natured dog of any kind they need to understand they can change its nature and it is their responsibility to create a safe loving environment for the nature of the dog they have. I'm going to get myself and my parents a break stick and learn how to use it properly because even though we segregate Hippo and have tried to take all precautions to keep her safe having one is just another safety precaution in case something does happen. I think it is and good ideal for me to have one since I am very social with my boys, we go everywhere together,parks , off leash beaches, dog events and while Pitts are not extremely popular in my area it only takes one, I would rather be safe than sorry.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

Some of the nicest people in the world have their pittie rescues and bring them to the dog park. A few of them are retirees and the dog park is a big part of their social life. These folks have no idea that their pups may be ticking time bombs. A big part of the responsibility should be on the rescue organizations to educate.

pr


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

patk said:


> puffing up and talking loudly may work in front of a market, but it doesn't work here! :lol:





patk said:


> cb also has a mischievous streak and likes to stir things up a bit. he sometimes throws out "bait" for the unsuspecting.


Speaking of talking loud... you're delusional... and taking your delusions way too far. Verbiage doesn't count. I'm not really into paragraph on paragraph of stories that make no sense and riff on a point that only you can see. You've taken a comment of mine out into left field, and then to a whole different ballpark. Am I the only one that wasn't drinking last nite?


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

The first page of adoptable dogs from the ASPCA, the next page has 2 more pits. The pittie dog profiles advise that they might not be the best with other dogs now, they just need a little guidance in that area :eyeroll: Some of them have resource guarding issues, some are "nervous" around people. So sad and scary.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Mfmst, thanks!, but really not so much. Working at a dog grooming/boarding kennel for years, I am pretty good at reading dog body language...which doesn't always work...but in this case the dog was showing no signs of human aggression. Otherwise I would have stayed in the car! lol He seemed like a young dog...not neutered. His attitude towards the chi's was aggressive 'ish". I think if he had truly wanted to hurt them, he would have tried a bit harder. Regardless, he was terrorizing the woman. I think had he been a bit older those chi's would have been in a bit more trouble.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Adorable and Adoptable.
Eric.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Countryboy said:


> Speaking of talking loud... you're delusional... and taking your delusions way too far. Verbiage doesn't count. I'm not really into paragraph on paragraph of stories that make no sense and riff on a point that only you can see. You've taken a comment of mine out into left field, and then to a whole different ballpark. Am I the only one that wasn't drinking last nite?


CB, do you feel that this thread is getting a little snarky? Should we break out the popcorn? opcorn:

According to your post in following thread, you like snarky.

http://www.poodleforum.com/7-general-off-topic-chat/121370-flame-war-member-introductions.html


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Getting back on topic, there is no way to know if a pit bull or pit bull mix will be friendly or not or will become suddenly aggressive. Since they have the capability of being deadly if they ARE aggressive, it seems wise to not let them near your dog. You can do that without saying the entire breed is bad. It doesn't matter if there are good or bad pit bulls. It just makes sense to take precautions just in case you are meeting one of the aggressive ones. I, too, have met some good pit bulls, but I still won't let them near my dogs.


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

No pit bulls around me or my dogs.

My mom and I were on a dog beach once and there was an unleashed pit bull prancing around, no owner in sight. It went after one of my toy poodles, presumably wanting to "play." The doggie freaked, as did my mom. The pitt bull almost jumped on me, at which I started screaming. Some guy intervened, got the dog away, and calmed me and mom down. He wasn't even the owner though. He was with a small dog himself.

The owner never made an appearance. Later on I saw the same dog running around kids, freely, and trying to jump them too.

I am in a wheelchair, very petite, and that dog could've injured me just by jumping at me. I do alright with much larger huskies, for instance, because, well... They look stable. That dog really wasn't. The larger dogs typically never bother my poodles either.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Some of the people from the Pittie forum in the OP, that see them as dangerous, might want to talk to this guy... who's using them as Service Dogs. Where is the truth, eh?

Updated: Tom?s Farms Responds to Accusations Of Discrimination Against Pit Bull Service Dog | Lake Elsinore-Wildomar, CA Patch


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## itzmeigh (Apr 28, 2014)

Countryboy said:


> Some of the people from the Pittie forum in the OP, that see them as dangerous, might want to talk to this guy... who's using them as Service Dogs. Where is the truth, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> Updated: Tom?s Farms Responds to Accusations Of Discrimination Against Pit Bull Service Dog | Lake Elsinore-Wildomar, CA Patch



I stopped reading when I saw they named their daughter A.B.C.D.E. Any credibility I had for the family flew right out the window at that point. 

(Kidding! sorta. I did read the whole thing.)


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