# Feeding kibble AND raw?



## Milliekins (Mar 31, 2012)

I'm just wondering if it's a good/bad idea to feed kibble for 'breakfast' and then raw for 'tea'? Whether it would be unbalanced? And whether I'd still need to feed a great variety of raw?

With Millie's digestion issues a friend recommended feeding raw chicken wings for one of her meals each day to see how Millie does on that. It's definitely seems to have improved things for the last few days, from better digestion to having more energy. And she loves them!

But.. if we carry on with one meal kibble and one raw, would I have to include as much variety as if I was feeding completely raw?

I'm guessing that kibbles are highly supplemented and that's why they are considered a 'complete dog food' even though they may only have one or two meat/fish ingredients? Compared to feeding raw where it seems you need to include lots of different meats and organs etc.

I know it might seem a bit crazy thinking of feeding half and half, but I'm stuck for storage space for raw, and may not have enough space to feed half raw depending on how much variety it would need. I also find it easier to feed raw at teatime when I've got a bit more time usually to do all the cleaning up. Kibble is far less messy which is ideal for busy mornings.

Would love to hear your thoughts about the pros/cons of feeding like this! :smile:


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

The advice I have read is that you need to start thinking about balancing the diet if you feed more than 25% or so non-kibble. But chicken wings are reasonably balanced in terms of meat/bone, so you don't need to worry too much about calcium. I think I would make up a batch of liver cake (make it into biscotti if you are short of freezer space - it then keeps for ages in a tin) for healthy treats and a regular dose of liver, and replace the occasional kibble meal with something easy like canned sardines or scrambled eggs. One big bag of tripe chunks doesn't take up too much room in the freezer, and would help keep the balance.

Helpful info here: DogAware.com: Adding Fresh Foods to Commercial Dog Food


----------



## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I did that for quite a while . Just don't feed raw and kiddle at the same meal. I still give Carley kibble once in a while , so if I ever have to for some reason, she will eat it.


----------



## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

For the last week I've been giving Cairo kibble in the morning and raw in the evening. Lately he looks at me like I'm joking when I put his kibble down and he'll follow me for a bit as if saying 'Is this all you're giving me?!' then he'll eat it. 

Thanks for the link, fjm, I've been meaning to get out and fish up some trout for the dogs (freeze for a week or so, then thaw) so they have /fresh/ fish.


----------



## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

I've been doing that with no problem for quite a while. SOmetimes a day or two of raw, then back to kibble. Or kibble in the morning and raw at night - switching for days I work to raw in the mornings, etc. I also modified the Satin Ball recipe a bit for treats and weight gain. My guys also get hard boiled fresh eggs regularly (shells on) and for a nice treat, sometimes scrambled and mixed in their kibble. 
They go absolutly nuts for canned mackral, too. I also add fish oil, vit E and vit c to their kibble. That has really helped my dughter's itchy shih tzu who has battled dry skin his whole life. His coat is now almost full length and thicker than ever. He just turned 9 yo old on the 3rd and looks better than he did as a younger dog. 
When I first got Paige, the breeder let me have her at a discount because she was a picky eater and thin. I took the sample bag of kibble that came with her and soaked it and offered it to her. She HATED it and ate only enough to keep herself alive. I went out and got her raw chicken leg quarters, chopped them into baby toy poodle hunks and crated her with one. She looked at it, looked at me, sniffed it, licked it then turned into a tiny hyena and crunched it down looking for more - she'll eat practically anything I offer her now, except Diamond dog food (what she came home with) lol There's something funny about a tiny dog ripping into raw poultry that looks too big for them and seeing the happy, pudgy full bellied look of satisfaction on her face. 
You can't go wrong with a good, balanced and varied raw diet, they love it and they look/act incredible on it.


----------



## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

When feeding raw chicken, do you give them with bone and skin too? 

I plan to give these to Charlie, toy poodle mix, who is also picky on food. Although he did eat his kibble mix canned mix dried duck stella chewy this morning.


----------



## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Yes when feeding chicken you give the bone and skin with it, though with Cairo when I gave him his first chicken wings, I pounded the bones with a hammer because I wasn't sure if he would be able to crunch through them completely.


----------



## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Yes when feeding chicken you give the bone and skin with it, though with Cairo when I gave him his first chicken wings, I pounded the bones with a hammer because I wasn't sure if he would be able to crunch through them completely.


Will they eat the bone as well? So sorry, I'm very new at this raw feed thing.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Joelly said:


> Will they eat the bone as well? So sorry, I'm very new at this raw feed thing.


Yes


----------



## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I have not been giving Swizzle the skin. Is he missing out on something because of this? Great idea - canned sardines. Swizzle only gets fish when we have it. Now that can be a special treat. I am still looking for a good source of green tripe around me.


----------



## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

CT Girl said:


> I have not been giving Swizzle the skin. Is he missing out on something because of this? Great idea - canned sardines. Swizzle only gets fish when we have it. Now that can be a special treat. I am still looking for a good source of green tripe around me.


There's no reason NOT to feed it. I've heard of people that feed prey model and give the whole animal as is, be it still having feathers or fur on it.


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

When Tilly brings home a rabbit, the whole thing can vanish in the night, except for the famous green wobbly bit (gall bladder), and the intestines which usually get left till last. I think the advice not to feed chicken skin comes from feeding cooked - especially raost - chicken, which can be very fatty and highly seasoned. Raw skin and fat is much more easily digested, I believe. Although tiny scraps of crispy skin make good training treats!

I wouldn't recommend feeding feathered food though. Not in the house, at least, unless you have a very good vacuum cleaner...


----------



## Milliekins (Mar 31, 2012)

fjm said:


> The advice I have read is that you need to start thinking about balancing the diet if you feed more than 25% or so non-kibble. But chicken wings are reasonably balanced in terms of meat/bone, so you don't need to worry too much about calcium. I think I would make up a batch of liver cake (make it into biscotti if you are short of freezer space - it then keeps for ages in a tin) for healthy treats and a regular dose of liver, and replace the occasional kibble meal with something easy like canned sardines or scrambled eggs. One big bag of tripe chunks doesn't take up too much room in the freezer, and would help keep the balance.
> 
> Helpful info here: DogAware.com: Adding Fresh Foods to Commercial Dog Food



With the tripe - would I feed that on it's own as a meal, or along with raw chicken? To figure how much to feed should I work out how many calories were in the kibble for that meal, and give either the amount chicken or tripe that will have about that many calories?

We've had a bit of a set back as Millie's had diarrhoea for more than a day after a meal of raw chicken wings, which has made me more apprehensive about feeding raw. The chicken was in date, and had only been in the fridge 2 or 3 days which I wouldn't expect to be a problem? We're sure it must have been the chicken as she'd been having good stools up until that meal, and then suddenly started with diarrhoea a couple of hours after eating.

FJM, do you have a recipe for liver cake biscotti? A lot of treats seem to upset Millie's stomach and so something homemade where I know the exact ingredients would be fab (as long as it's not tooo smelly! :smile

Carley's Mom, I would love to know why kibble and raw shouldn't be fed together; does it cause problems with different rates of digestion or something else? Does that include biscuit treats being fed near a raw meal time?

Thanks :smile:


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I feed the tripe on its own, but there is no reason why you couldn't feed it with a chicken wing. Mine are so tiny that half a wing is a whole meal, so they tend to get either/or!

Liver biscotti - first make liver cake. About 200g/8oz liver, one egg, whizz in a food processor until gloopy. Add enough plain flour/wholemeal flour/mixed plain flour and rice flour/ or cooked shortgrain rice (about 4oz uncooked, cooked until very soft) to make a soft dropping consistency mixture. Scrape into a non-stick cake or loaf tin - doesn't much matter how deep it is - and bake at around 160c until firm (about 25 minutes in my fan assisted oven). Don't let it burn, but make sure it is cooked through. Turn out and cool, then cut into slices and cut the slices into fingers. Try not to give into pleading eyes too much at this stage, although you will inevitably find yourself dropping the odd bit accidentally-on-purpose! Spread out on wire trays (I use the grill pan) and leave in a very low oven for several hours or overnight, until very dry and hard.


----------



## Milliekins (Mar 31, 2012)

fjm said:


> I feed the tripe on its own, but there is no reason why you couldn't feed it with a chicken wing. Mine are so tiny that half a wing is a whole meal, so they tend to get either/or!
> 
> Liver biscotti - first make liver cake. About 200g/8oz liver, one egg, whizz in a food processor until gloopy. Add enough plain flour/wholemeal flour/mixed plain flour and rice flour/ or cooked shortgrain rice (about 4oz uncooked, cooked until very soft) to make a soft dropping consistency mixture. Scrape into a non-stick cake or loaf tin - doesn't much matter how deep it is - and bake at around 160c until firm (about 25 minutes in my fan assisted oven). Don't let it burn, but make sure it is cooked through. Turn out and cool, then cut into slices and cut the slices into fingers. Try not to give into pleading eyes too much at this stage, although you will inevitably find yourself dropping the odd bit accidentally-on-purpose! Spread out on wire trays (I use the grill pan) and leave in a very low oven for several hours or overnight, until very dry and hard.


Thanks for the recipe that's great! :smile: Can't wait til Millie can try it, I'm sure she will LOVE it! :smile:


----------



## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I was told not to feed raw and kibble together because the digestion time differs. I did not have any issues with Carley switching or going back and forth. I have noticed now that when I give her kibble she gets stinky gas...it has been a few months since I started raw, this week, for the first time, she turned her nose up to raw chicken in her morning meal. I don't know what that was about except I put her outside alone to eat it. I took it back in and gave her kibble inside and she ate fine. She ate the same chicken outside for dinner... with me outside as well... I think she did not want to be outside alone, even for chicken. Sorry to hear that your dog is having some trouble adjusting, hope it gets worked out soon.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Carley's Mom said:


> I was told not to feed raw and kibble together because the digestion time differs. I did not have any issues with Carley switching or going back and forth. I have noticed now that when I give her kibble she gets stinky gas...it has been a few months since I started raw, this week, for the first time, she turned her nose up to raw chicken in her morning meal. I don't know what that was about except I put her outside alone to eat it. I took it back in and gave her kibble inside and she ate fine. She ate the same chicken outside for dinner... with me outside as well... I think she did not want to be outside alone, even for chicken. Sorry to hear that your dog is having some trouble adjusting, hope it gets worked out soon.


I don't think that "digestion time" differing matters much as some claim for it to.... Dry food does take longer to digest than any moist food, whether it be homecooked, canned, or raw. Where I have experienced an issue and I have heard of many other people experiencing issues is when you feed both kibble and whole, edible bones in the same meal. Personally, I don't feed edible bone and kibble on the same day, ever. But I have and do sometimes feed kibble one meal and raw the next meal.


----------

