# A Rant About Other People and Dogs



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

As most of you know BF and I work hard to have well behaved dogs who are a pleasure to meet in public. They all have CGCs and all of them regularly put in appearances at the nursing home where BF's mom lives. We go to pet stores, home improvements stores and the like all the time. All of our dogs at least also have a rally title or more.

I was in PetSmart yesterday with Javelin in tow. I walked to the back of the store to use their scale and then was looking for a house shirt for Javvy (New York Giants). Javelin can be a bit reactive to dogs he doesn't know if the energy level from the other dogs isn't good and I always watch for those kinds of potential problems to be able to work with him proactively rather than letting him start to act out. Sure enough we saw trouble brewing in the form of two pit mixes as big or bigger than Javvy tangled up on the end of flexi leashes under virtually zero owner control. I made Javelin move back from them but he was already wary and before I knew it one of them had pulled away from the owner and was right in Javelin's face and he had no where to go to get away. He gave the dog a seriously menacing growl as I worked to put myself between them with J behind me and the other dog in front of me. No physical contact got made but it was the kind of thing I hate since it gave Javelin one more bad experience with a dog he didn't know and I worry about how it will translate to group stays later in his obedience work.

The woman juggled the handles for the flexis the whole time we were near each other and had a real deer in the headlights look on her face. I told her I thought she was exceedingly foolish for using flexi leashes since she didn't seem to know how or why they would or wouldn't be appropriate.

Once I was able to safely get Javelin away from this woman and her poorly controlled dogs we were able to walk all the way through the store and do some Look At That work with dogs and handlers that knew how to move past others. We also walked past the doggie day care where a really high energy lab mix got a bit of a rise out of Javelin, but I was able to get him to collect his head and take some orders, so hopefully there aren't any big lasting consequences.

But boy oh boy though do I have little use for people who are clueless about their dogs and even more clueless about the proper use of training tools and equipment.


----------



## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

I never understand people who try to take two dogs on flexi leashes to do anything where you might need your hands. With a regular leash, you can slip your hand through the loop on the end and grab things off the shelves without letting go of your dog; any flexi I've ever seen had a big bulky handle that you need all your fingers on in order to grip. It's really an impractical tool for a shopping trip _even if_ your dog is well-behaved and you use it properly (ie, locked so the dog is close to you when in close quarters).

The only time I use a flexi is when all we're doing is walking, and I want something that's in between a regular leash and being off-leash. For example, wide-open areas that aren't fenced.

This owner sounds totally clueless and like she really shouldn't be going to enclosed public spaces with her dogs. Just because you can bring your dog someplace doesn't necessarily mean that you should do it.


----------



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

I feel the same way about people at the dog park. You don't have any business taking your dog there if it isn't well-behaved and under control. Ugh, people can be so clueless and dumb.


----------



## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

I hate that pet owners's poor choices can have such a negative impact on the carefully thought out choices of intelligent, informed pet owners(or dog trainers). A bad experience can happen so quickly and it can then take months to train it out of a sensitive dog. The joy of having a smart dog is that it is always learning; the curse is that it is always learning. Sigh. I find myself more and more intolerant of stupid, especially when it interferes with another dog.


----------



## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

It is a sad fact (for the dogs involved) that most pit/pit-cross owners are clueless. I have met pit owners who know their dogs and have them well trained. Unfortunately they are a minority group. But clueless owners are not confined to pities. I met a very well dressed lady with two show groomed white spoos. They were behaving well on their leashes in a city environment. One stopped in the middle of the pavement and unloaded a healthy sized poo. The handler moved on as if nothing had ever happened. I had a very well trained working GSD with me at the time and stopped to pick up with one of the bags every thoughtful handler carries. A little further on a miniature dachshund appeared handled by a little girl. They were directly in the path of the poodles. One poodle bolted pulling the leash from the handlers hand. The other followed dragging the immaculate handler behind. The dachshund was mobbed and killed. The little girl was terrified and in tears. The lady handler uttered a few words no lady should know. She was charged with bringing an uncontrolled animal into a public place and littering. (its an old statute aimed at horses) It transpired the poodles were fashion accessories housed and trained by a paid trainer. The "lady" had little idea how to train or control them. I never found out the fate of the dogs but the "lady" was found guilty of the littering charge. It was an incident I have never forgotten.
Eric


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

lisasgirl, you are so right about the just because you can, doesn't mean you should part of things!

Charmed I was fortunate to be able to do a bit of work to mitigate what happened. The sad thing is that I have a feeling the other person probably thought Javelin was the poorly behaved dog since he gave her dog quite a deeply visceral warning to get away from him.

And Eric that is just about the worst story I have ever heard. How horrible for the girl with the doxie. I guess we can chalk that up to the concept that poodles will put themselves in charge if the person doesn't take the reins the way they should.


----------



## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I can't understand the flexi-leash choice for two dogs. You could be in a heck of a tangle. The ones with line instead of ribbon can sever a digit. Glad nothing bad happened to Javvy.


----------



## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Glad Javvy is save, I maybe age with me, but I am one when I see a dog that is not under control, I try to get away. But if that dog approaches my girls ( they are shy of dogs they do not know) I will speak up instantly, and say get your dog under control away from mine. If they are that ignorant or plain dumb I do not care if I embarrass then and at times my self. People that will not take the time to learn what is socially accepted should not take their dogs in public . I have a friend like that and told her until you get them under control I am not going in public with you and your dogs, they are also toy poodles


----------



## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

A nice couple walk with their Chihuahua in our quiet neighborhood on a Flexi with a line. He's tangled us up while we were visiting! I'm glad their dog has the "free, not free" experience, but I hope the line never fails to retract. I have no problem telling people to leash their dogs or control their dogs, either. Beyond caring if they are offended.


----------



## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

Sometimes I think you should have to pass a test to both own a dog and use a flexi leash. I was at Petco today and saw a lady with a Cane Corso that didn't appear to be under very good control. I saw them through the glass store front and waited outside with Asaah until they left. Then we went in and Asaah was nearly jumped on by a crazy schnauzer. It's getting so I don't really like to take my dog to places where a lot of other dogs will be


----------



## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

lily cd re said:


> lisasgirl, you are so right about the just because you can, doesn't mean you should part of things!
> 
> Charmed I was fortunate to be able to do a bit of work to mitigate what happened. The sad thing is that I have a feeling the other person probably thought Javelin was the poorly behaved dog since he gave her dog quite a deeply visceral warning to get away from him.
> 
> And Eric that is just about the worst story I have ever heard. How horrible for the girl with the doxie. I guess we can chalk that up to the concept that poodles will put themselves in charge if the person doesn't take the reins the way they should.


I think any large dog can take charge in the right situation with the wrong handler. I have seen exceptionally well trained dogs (and Horses) take charge of a child or weak handler with bad results for all.
Eric


----------



## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Large dogs on Flexi leashes is an instant turn around and leave now situation for me. Maybe because I've worked with a service dog for 13 years, and am training a successor, I have my antenna attuned and wired for early alert. Warning, fool and a dog approaching, exit to the right. I do not trust any dog on a long Flexi. The dog is often too far out for the handler to control. I had to swerve to avoid hitting a dog on a long Flexi. handler was on the phone, dog ran into the street after a squirrel. Handler looked at me like I did something wrong. Hello, clue phone, it's for you, lady. 

Flexi's are wonderful when it's -10 and you want to stay in the house while the dog goes out and does business. They're a good way to train and reinforce recall. But in a store? Really? I know it is a pet friendly place, but wow how clueless can you get?

Have you ever noticed that fool dog handlers with out of control dogs are quick to tell you they know everything about dog training? I share your rant. It me crazy, too.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I have flexi leashes that I use regularly, but only under very specific circumstances with the poodles. I never put Peeves on a flexi. He is too powerful. I also don't do things that require him to be at distance other than tracking and tracking has its own special harnesses and long lines for each of the dogs.

I use the flexi as a way to be able to play ball with Lily when we are away at shows and I can't safely allow her to be off leash. I hook it to her harness and we play fetch.

Lily is past needing the flexi but I use it extensively with Javelin in training when I am working on distance activities. Since I don't want to allow him to think it would be okay to take the dumbbell and then take off with it the flexi keeps us connected. If he were big for ball play I would also play with him as I do with Lily with it.

It would be a great thing if the pet store chains that offered training classes would have a class that was just about training tools and their proper use! Poor use of tools is one of the biggest problems we encounter isn't it? Eric it goes along the lines of poor handling skills. People need to learn good timing, how to be taken seriously at all times by the dog (horse, etc) and how to use the right tool at the right time.


----------



## Axeldog (Aug 29, 2014)

Sigh...dogs on flexi leads, out of control. It happens so often, but I have to admit, I have never seen it happen two dogs at a time, and in a store for god's sake! That's just ridiculous. 

Every time we leave our house with our dogs, I guess we just have to be prepared to meet up with, and deal with ignorant people :-(.


----------



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I am a Flexi Leash hater..........but I got one about a month ago anyway just to give Molly a little freedom when we go down to the Bay, where at certain times, dogs must be leashed and a 4ft leash from the scooter is not very much fun for Molly! I am VERY mindful using it, but I wish others were too. I am now watchful of anyone approaching us with a dog also on a Flexi Leash and reel Molly in before they get to us......she is so attuned to not pulling, that the slightest tug makes her stop and turn back to me.........I know I can control my dog but OTHER dogs? I'd rather be safe than sorry! 
What REALLY irks me is the person walking down the boardwalk having an intense cell phone convo while their dog is running amuck even with a leash (Flex) on! A few times Molly has had to jump onboard because a big dog decided she looked interestingly like something to chase!!! LOL! THEN is when the owner is suddenly pulled down the sidewalk and HAS TO pay attention, and you hear them yelling "NO NO NO" while they wrap themselves around a pole or a bench as Molly and I breeze by! Hahaha!!!!


----------



## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

*Good will to all men etc.*

In line with the Christmas spirit, I would like to reiterate. In defense of clueless dog handlers, any dog no matter how big,small or well trained can be excited by the right stimulant or situation to behave badly. It is up to the handler to accept this as fact. It is a human trait to believe our children and fur-kids can do no harm. We defend them and ignore bad behavior others clearly see. My advise to dog handlers has always been, "Expect the unexpected, because it will happen. If you are ready for it, you can react to prevent problems. Make certain you have the tools you need. An emergency leash, (rolled up tight and can be used as a tourniquet or splint) Emergency Treats, (the one time sugar sweets make sense. They can be carried for years) Poo bags, A_* loud*_ sports whistle, (trained to it a dog will recall well in an excited state). If you walk in a crowded city or town carry a walking stick. A lightweight stick can be very useful. If you trip and turn an ankle, it is a godsend. (I have seen others trip and given over my ready stick) Other people's poorly trained dogs will often fear a stick and keep their distance without its use. When used it can save a trip to the vet. Its a handy weapon you are allowed to carry anywhere.

In defense of the poor handlers who earn our ire, like many today, they are short on education, It is education that can prevent many of the problems. I have invited myself to schools, where I have taught basic dog care. What to do if you are attacked. How to prevent attacks. Basic obedience training and how a dog reacts to training. How dogs think? Not like humans but as opportunistic readily adaptable helpers who will accept bribes.
Eric.


----------



## JamesonThePoodlePup (Jan 11, 2017)

zooeysmom said:


> I feel the same way about people at the dog park. You don't have any business taking your dog there if it isn't well-behaved and under control. Ugh, people can be so clueless and dumb.


So obviously it is too cold in Ohio right now, but I want to try taking my little guy to the dog park (when the weather was nice he was not yet vaccinated) He is friendly with other dogs, in fact maybe too friendly since he barks because he really really wants to play. I have been training my butt off with him, he typically comes when called (unless the other stimulus is more exciting than me, which at 5 months is often), good with no, down, and all his tricks but he is still a baby.

How do I test out the dog park without being a "bad owner" of a "poorly trained dog" since he is still so young I cannot claim he is perfectly trained by any stretch of the imagination.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

JamesonThePoodlePup said:


> So obviously it is too cold in Ohio right now, but I want to try taking my little guy to the dog park (when the weather was nice he was not yet vaccinated) He is friendly with other dogs, in fact maybe too friendly since he barks because he really really wants to play. I have been training my butt off with him, he typically comes when called (unless the other stimulus is more exciting than me, which at 5 months is often), good with no, down, and all his tricks but he is still a baby.
> 
> How do I test out the dog park without being a "bad owner" of a "poorly trained dog" since he is still so young I cannot claim he is perfectly trained by any stretch of the imagination.


IMO, you don't. Unless you can always be more interesting than all the other stuff then I would not take a young dog to a dog park. Javelin had definite moments of lacking in social graces when younger and I would not have risked anything in the world for him to have had a bad experience at a dog park in the name of letting him loose with "new dog friends."


----------



## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I will never use a flexi lead.
1. You have no control
2. never on a chihuahua or toy breed...I learned the lesson a hard way. I took in a ascu chihuahua, in fact he is 13 now I still have him. He came with a flexi lead and really I did not know better at the time. I would let him run while in an open area then rein him back in, one time he ran, I wasn't expecting it but he didn't stop until the end of the lead jerked him back. $3000 later he was ok he ruptured a disc in his neck. He was about 4 at the time. no collars of flexi for him since.
And I agree so many people have dogs they cannot control. I have a neighbor with two pitt mixes. She walks them on flexi, she actually had the young one maybe 7 months old on a pretty flowered harness, the dog just dragged her until she just lets go of the lead. We almost had an incident the other day with our boxer, my daughter stepped in front while keep the boxer behind her. The older pitt came running and while I've seen him do this for years he was growling at our boxer. No excuse for stupid.


----------



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

JamesonThePoodlePup said:


> So obviously it is too cold in Ohio right now, but I want to try taking my little guy to the dog park (when the weather was nice he was not yet vaccinated) He is friendly with other dogs, in fact maybe too friendly since he barks because he really really wants to play. I have been training my butt off with him, he typically comes when called (unless the other stimulus is more exciting than me, which at 5 months is often), good with no, down, and all his tricks but he is still a baby.
> 
> How do I test out the dog park without being a "bad owner" of a "poorly trained dog" since he is still so young I cannot claim he is perfectly trained by any stretch of the imagination.


Only take him when he has good manners with other dogs. Both of my dogs attended puppy Kindergarten and were well socialized with other dogs before I took them. I still watch their interactions with other dogs carefully. Frosty can occasionally be barky at other dogs to the point of annoying them. I put him on a leash for a time out until he calms down. Then I let him try again. I always make sure that my dogs and the other dogs are safe and having a good time. If not, we leave.


----------

