# Eyes



## caboodles (Jan 7, 2011)

THERE IS!! I've done it once..

With the dog steady on the grooming table, when you approach their eye they will have a natural tendency to close it. Then with your finger, you can easily part/separate the lashes downward from the rest of the topknot and trim the hair above. Not too sure about the bottom lashes though....

The lashes do grow pretty long if you leave them.. I left them on Hudson for a while and the only issue I had was them getting bent as they slept on their side, so they would constantly need adjusting otherwise they would go downward into the eye ball and probably irritate them. It's a shame that they aren't as coarse as their guard hairs or something!

PS. Rain is absolutely BEAUTIFUL! In every cut she has.. just stunning!! I never thought a poodle could look so good with such a close shave and she definitely proves my thoughts wrong!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I used to ask for the lashes to be left on my last poodle because they were black and her hair was white and they looked so great. I have no idea how they did it, but it can be done.


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

Top eyelashes can be kept easily enough AS LONG as they're straight! The bottom ones not so easily. Dogs don't have the extra 'whisker' type ones though (might do on top a little, but those are long if the topknot is left long! lol) 

Poodles have curly coats though, so their eyelashes don't tend always grow out long very well (depends on the individual) Now, try a cocker or a shih tzu and their eyelashes can be ridiculously long (2" or more) and straight! lol. I'm often asked to not trim the eyelashes on them... haha

Also note that dog eyelashes don't tend to provide the 'fan' of protection that the deer shows, if they get long, dogs eyelashes tend to just clump into a long skinny 'stick' of hair (I'm talking several inches long easily) and just get in the way! lol. 

So for the best eye protection they are actually better off to be trimmed with the topknot, so they have a little length, but are not stupidly long. Hair in the eyes could do as much damage as brush and field rubbish...


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## cliffdweller (Jan 31, 2011)

caboodles said:


> THERE IS!! I've done it once..
> 
> With the dog steady on the grooming table, when you approach their eye they will have a natural tendency to close it. Then with your finger, you can easily part/separate the lashes downward from the rest of the topknot and trim the hair above. Not too sure about the bottom lashes though....
> 
> ...


Thank you so much ! I never really gave much thought to this before Rain's eye "injury" (though the cause has not been precisely determined -- so I'm still seeking answers). I've always had dogs with very short coats (Weims), and never clipped any hairs. I hope the groomer can be sensitive to this need, because Rain will be (if all goes well) turned loose in some heavy cover this Winter.

I love naked Rain, lol. Thanks !


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## cliffdweller (Jan 31, 2011)

flyingduster said:


> Top eyelashes can be kept easily enough AS LONG as they're straight! The bottom ones not so easily. Dogs don't have the extra 'whisker' type ones though (might do on top a little, but those are long if the topknot is left long! lol)
> 
> Poodles have curly coats though, so their eyelashes don't tend always grow out long very well (depends on the individual) Now, try a cocker or a shih tzu and their eyelashes can be ridiculously long (2" or more) and straight! lol. I'm often asked to not trim the eyelashes on them... haha
> 
> ...


Hi flyingduster,

When Rain developed the eye problem, I thought that it was perhaps because I had let the hair get too long around her eyes. So, when I had her groomed, I asked that the hair be clipped short all around her eyes. This ruined the appearance of her topknot, I think, but we'll work that out later. I notice the existence of a clump of "guard hairs" (that would be long, had they not been clipped with the face) right at the point where her "eyebrow" would begin, if she had eyebrows. These, I believe, could be important in avoiding "dead on" or "slightly above" sticks or twigs, when running in heavy cover -- providing an extra sense, as it were, to protect the eye. I think I need to leave these "stupidly long" for this reason, lol. 

You can see the "brow lashes" in the photo here : World Through A Dogs Eyes.jpg - a photo on Flickriver

I'll have to wait and see what configuration they take on Rain once they grow out again.


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

Yup, those 'eyebrow whiskers' are common, though offer very little real eye protection on a smooth coated dog (they're 'wimpy' weak whiskers at best, not stiff and guarding), and certainly not as much protection as a full topknot would be... Just grow the topknot into a normal scissored poodle topknot and it'll protect as well as allow those whiskers get a bit longer within the topknot too! Even if you get a bit more of an 'overhang' on the topknot, still keeping it trimmed from the eyes, but at an angle so it overhangs above the eyes and keeps things away. 

See Paris' topknot at the moment here:

















it's a big full topknot, it's not in her eyes (ok, it is getting there right NOW cos it hasn't been trimmed in ages, but she's getting done on friday! lol) but it offers pretty good surrounding eye protection from rubbish... Especially if she puts her head down and the ears get in on the act too. lmao!


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

*Sella gets that heart hair too *



flyingduster said:


> Yup, those 'eyebrow whiskers' are common, though offer very little real eye protection on a smooth coated dog (they're 'wimpy' weak whiskers at best, not stiff and guarding), and certainly not as much protection as a full topknot would be... Just grow the topknot into a normal scissored poodle topknot and it'll protect as well as allow those whiskers get a bit longer within the topknot too! Even if you get a bit more of an 'overhang' on the topknot, still keeping it trimmed from the eyes, but at an angle so it overhangs above the eyes and keeps things away.
> 
> See Paris' topknot at the moment here:
> 
> ...


My husband and I joke about it all the time...that part down the middle that makes the cutest heart


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## cliffdweller (Jan 31, 2011)

flyingduster said:


> Yup, those 'eyebrow whiskers' are common, though offer very little real eye protection on a smooth coated dog (they're 'wimpy' weak whiskers at best, not stiff and guarding), and certainly not as much protection as a full topknot would be... !


Well, OK, flyingduster, perhaps there is something to what you are saying. But test it out. Those 'eyebrow whiskers" act like eyelashes : if you touch them, they trigger a reflex that closes the eye, just like your eyelashes do. Normal hairs do not do this.

So, I would say that this is part of "eye structure" that is commonly ignored because it is relatively insignificant for show/pet purposes, but is important if you are taking your dog into heavy brush. I think a full topknot will be a detriment, not an aid, to the dog in the latter conditions, conditions like these :










Can you imagine ? Admittedly, these are not normal hunting conditions, but this is what we have here. I'd like to take Rain into this "backcountry" because I think she will really enjoy it and I enjoy it too. 

I am obsessing over the "eye structure" because Rain sustained Entropion that we think resulted from an injury of some sort. I am concerned about her getting hurt again.

Even in relatively open conditions here, I was spending an enormous amount of time "deburring" Rain _before_ I had her trimmed short. Sandspurs are really nasty & painful.

( btw: I seem to have lost reasonable word wrap on my posts !? Is it a function of the size of the images ? ... nope, I see now, it's only in preview, so ignore ~~~)


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

The first image is huge and has made my whole page need to be scrolled sideways to read anything, but it's too late to change it now so I haven't commented before. lol!


Anyway, yes they do trigger a reflex, BUT how on earth will you keep them long and the topknot short? It's NOT possible to grow only the whiskers longer and trim the hairs around them shorter. Either they all get long (ie the whole topknot) or they all get trimmed (including whiskers) 

So I would still go with allowing the topknot to be longish (perhaps not as long as Paris' though!) to help protect the eyes and keep those whiskers somewhat active. Yes, even with those undergrowth conditions.


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## cliffdweller (Jan 31, 2011)

flyingduster said:


> Anyway, yes they do trigger a reflex, BUT how on earth will you keep them long and the topknot short?


LOL ! ~~~ yes, I know, that's what the question was about, lol ! caboodles made a very good suggestion, I think, insofar as the "eyebrow whiskers" are concerned. And I believe these are the most important under the circumstances. It _will _be a challenge though.



flyingduster said:


> So I would still go with allowing the topknot to be longish (perhaps not as long as Paris' though!) to help protect the eyes and keep those whiskers somewhat active. Yes, even with those undergrowth conditions.


Ok, we'll see how it goes, thanks (~~~ contemplating seeing Rain hanging from a tree by the topknot, lol ... just joking; she's a really nice little dog and I'm not really determined that she travel the backcountry -- we'll start out slowly, and only if she really likes it will we go there --- we have alternatives).


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