# "Cleared for Addisons"?



## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

I've noticed a few breeders saying their adult dogs are tested and cleared for Addisons. Is that possible? I know their is a blood test to check whether a dog is affected, but that has no bearing on whether the dog will get sick in the future or produce affected offspring, right? Are these breeders trying to pull something?


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I thought you could just be cleared for VWD?


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

VWD, NE and the little guys can be cleared for one form of PRA.


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## passion4poodles (Apr 11, 2009)

There is no genetic test that can be done for Addisons, they can only test and get true results if the dog is exhibiting signs of Addisons. As far as other testing there are several


vWD (vetgen/OFA)
NE (vetgen/OFA)
DM (OFA)
Thyroid (again only tests the dog at that time) 2 diff tests can be ran for this, consult your vet one is more thorough then the other.
SA(again only tests at that time in that area) OFA has a list of places to send the punch tests to as well as collection instructions for your Vet.
as well as a Company in Canada has developed a test for JRD now.


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## Vibrant (Dec 7, 2009)

There is no genetic test for Addison's.
You can test the blood for electrolyte imbalances (sodium and potassium) which may point to Addison's. However, normal electrolyte levels don't guarantee that there won't be an Addison's crisis in the future.
There is also the ACTH stimulation test, which challenges the adrenal glands with the injection of a pituitary hormone. If the adrenals are working properly, the level of cortisol will rise...if not, you have adrenal insufficiency, also known as Addison's Disease. Again, this test only tells you the adrenal glands are working at this moment.
I think breeders who are advertising that their dogs are clear for Addison's are probably using one or both of these tests...and like SA and thyroid can only say that they are not exhibiting the disease at that moment.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Agreed!


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## flufflvr (Mar 20, 2010)

Yes. Liberty's parents were tested for Addison's. It's just a snapshot in time. Obviously they showed no signs of it when tested. Liberty however, has addison's.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

If a breeder is claiming they tested their dog's for addisons :doh: probably someone I would not want to deal with lol


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

flufflvr said:


> Yes. Liberty's parents were tested for Addison's. It's just a snapshot in time. Obviously they showed no signs of it when tested. Liberty however, has addison's.


That's unfortunate and I'm sorry to hear it. 


Roxy, IA. If they put "cleared for addisons" w/o explaining what that means, then I feel they are really trying to pull the wool over people's eyes.


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## Vibrant (Dec 7, 2009)

flufflvr said:


> Yes. Liberty's parents were tested for Addison's. It's just a snapshot in time. Obviously they showed no signs of it when tested. Liberty however, has addison's.


The mode of inheritance is not yet understood, but the latest thought is that it is polygenetic. The specific combination of two apparently healthy poodles can produce affected offspring.
There may some ignorance on the part of breeders who claim their stock is 'clear' of Addison's. I wouldn't want to buy from a breeder who didn't have some understanding of genetics, but I wouldn't mind betting that lack of education has much to do with such claims.


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## flufflvr (Mar 20, 2010)

Yeah, she was a first time breeder trying to do it right. She did all the health testing on both parents, I have the paperwork. Liberty was actually her "keeper' after the temperament test. I got her when she was one year old, and she is my heart dog. The family moved out of state, couldn't afford to buy a house where they were going and the rental they were moving into would only allow one dog, so I lucked out and became her forever home. She was almost 2 when diagnosed. I'm still in touch with her breeder, and let her know as soon as i knew. We both cried together. Her dam was actually spayed before Liberty was even diagnosed. Now on my list of requirements for future breeders is that they look back into the pedigrees of the poodles they breed for things like Addison's. Her dam also subsequently died of bloat and torsion, so we're really, really careful about that too. That's another thing that's genetic, but you can't test for.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

flufflvr said:


> Yeah, she was a first time breeder trying to do it right. She did all the health testing on both parents, I have the paperwork. Liberty was actually her "keeper' after the temperament test. I got her when she was one year old, and she is my heart dog. The family moved out of state, couldn't afford to buy a house where they were going and the rental they were moving into would only allow one dog, so I lucked out and became her forever home. She was almost 2 when diagnosed. I'm still in touch with her breeder, and let her know as soon as i knew. We both cried together. Her dam was actually spayed before Liberty was even diagnosed. Now on my list of requirements for future breeders is that they look back into the pedigrees of the poodles they breed for things like Addison's. Her dam also subsequently died of bloat and torsion, so we're really, really careful about that too. That's another thing that's genetic, but you can't test for.


Bloat and Torsion is not necessarily genetic, It is however labelled "familial" Bloat was not found to be genetic in origin rather familial, which means it either runs or does not run in certain families of dogs. It is very likely that when a sire/dam bloats one or more of thier progeny will too. This is what is meant by "familial". Bloat/torsion has no testing available and never will.. Clear for Addison's only means that at the time of testing the dog is clear of AD. If one notices lethargy and uncommon behavior for the dog and profuse diarrhea , weakness, thirst etc... than they should think of testing for Addison's as well as complete blood panel and kidney/liver functions etc.. to rule out any and all ailments to include Addison's.
Re: JRD testing, Dr. Whitley has numerous test results and 99% came back Carriers. There is quite a bit of controversy regarding the validity of the JRD DNA test and to date it has not been accepted by the PCA as the final test for JRD. More info is needed about the JRD DNA test.
Also inspite of Addison's having been found to be genetic in origin, there are some cases of Addison's however that are strictly due to a high stress level that some dogs can not tollerate. Having said this, the dog in question must already be predisposed to Addison's in order for a trigger (such as stress) to bring it about.


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## flufflvr (Mar 20, 2010)

So if it's "familial", wouldn't that make it genetic, since what makes a group of dogs familial is shared genes? 

Maybe "familial" is just another way of saying genetic, but we aren't sure which gene causes it yet?


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Flufflvr:
Yes and no. 
Familial is occuring in or affecting more members of a family than would be expected by chance
Genetic is pertaining to and determined only by genes , NO OUTSIDE FACTORS, meaning NO environmental factors (which may contribute to the ailment).
There is much debate when it comes to these two terms. Many feel they are the same others dont.
Familial ailments can also be attributed to both genes AND environmental factors whereas Genetic ailments deal strictly with genes.
In the case of Bloat and Torsion, this is not necessarily genetic UNLESS there are numerous dogs in the same pedigree that have proven to bloat and torsion. Bloat can also be brought upon by external/environmental factors such as stress, change of owner for a dog, being keneled and missing their owner. These can bring about Bloat and torsion, but it does not mean it is necessarily genetic in origin.


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## flufflvr (Mar 20, 2010)

Genetic, familial, sounds like semantics to me. Regardless of what it's called, we're very, very careful, as her mother died of bloat.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

flufflvr said:


> Genetic, familial, sounds like semantics to me. Regardless of what it's called, we're very, very careful, as her mother died of bloat.


You may be right there. Some view both terms as the same others make a slight distinction. Even in medical dictionaries there is a distinction between the 2 however slight.

Bloat is running rampant in large breeds and more so in stand. poodles now than ever. There are certain dog food companies which even state that feeing dogs with brands preserved with Citric Acid is not a good idea since this preservative was found to be responsible for bloat (it is still in research stages but when there is a red flag I read and pay attention to it).

Since poodles are also among the breeds that are prone to bloat, I have discussed this condition in depth with my veterinarian who also purchased a puppy from my 2009 litter. We decided that it is best that all pets I sell who are local will have gastropexy (tummy tuck) when they are spayed/neutered.
My veterinarian agreed to do this surgical procedure on all stand. poodle puppies sold by me to my local clients when the puppies turn 10-11 months old not before (since prior to this the puppy is still in growth stages and if the stomach is tucked before they attain full growth then the tucking can tear) My vet charges the spay/neuter fee plus for males $300.00 extra for the gastropexy and for females $150.00
This is a wonderful offer he has presented to me and many of my clients are taking him up on this offer and have done the gastropexy on their 10-11 mos. old puppies. No side effects except for some burping episodes. The client now can rest assured that their puppies will never die of torsion.. They can still however bloat but never die of torsion because their stomachs are now tucked.
I will NOT do this surgery on females and males which I use in my breeding program (my own dogs) as this would be UNFAIR. I would like to know if a dog I use in my breeding program bloats because if they do, they will be spayed/neutered asap and never again used by me to produce puppies. 
I do agree with you flufflvr that you should be careful about your dog since you know that her mom bloated. It does tend to run in families, but as I say it is not necessarily genetic in origin.


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