# genetics again



## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

vix2000 said:


> I have a brown miniature, she has white chest and feet and a little apricot beard. At 17 months she is still very dark brown. Her mum is a grey and white merle, her dad an apricot. I saw her sister who was white. There was a 3rd pup but I have no information on that one. Does this mix of colours mean that there could be any prediction of outcomes with different coloured sires? Thank you.


It is very hard to tell what colors she carries without a DNA test. I would have her embark DNA tested to know the color. But as merle is not a naturally occurring poodle color, she must also be a mix of another breed to have had a merle mother. This can result in unpredictable color genetics. The only merle poodle-mixes I've seen have been black and grey. I'm unfamiliar with a grey and white one and what sort of colors that would result from.


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## vix2000 (Sep 29, 2020)

This is a photo of Mum. Does that mean that she is not a full pedigree poodle?


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## Ava. (Oct 21, 2020)

No, also looks like some double merle problems are happening here too... Piebald and merle = issues.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Merle is not, historically, a poodle color. Therefore, I think there's a pretty good chance a charming sheepdog paid a visit to one of your girl's ancestors. Cute results in that pretty little girl.

I agree a genetic test would shed some light on the colors your girl carries. I'm pretty certain both brown and apricot are present, but it would be fun to confirm. Additionally, sheepdogs have a high incidence of an MDR1 mutation that makes them unable to properly metabolize common medications such as ivermectin. Affected dogs easily overdose and die when they ingest certain medications that cause no problems for other dogs. It might be a good idea to get your girl tested when you do the color tests, as poodles are not a breed with a high incidence of this mutation, and It's probably not on your vet's radar.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

vix2000 said:


> This is a photo of Mum. Does that mean that she is not a full pedigree poodle?
> 
> View attachment 471803


Ahh now I see, she is a parti merle. So your dog probably carries the parti gene and that's why she has a small amount of white.


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## vix2000 (Sep 29, 2020)

This is the mum of my girl, so could my girl have the bad sheepdog gene?


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

The mum of your girl is not 100% poodle. That fancy merle pattern came from another breed of dog - not a poodle. Merle patterns are naturally occurring in several herding breeds such as shelties and border collies.

Multidrug Resistance Mutation (MDR1) is a very serious problem found in many herding breeds. Many common drugs prescribed for dogs, such as heart and tick medication, seizure treatments etc. if prescribed for a dog with MDR1 could make it sick or dead.

Since you don't know what kind of dog is in your dog's mum's heritage, you should assume it's possible that your dog might have inherited MDR1 from a herding dog. 

My daughter has a rough collie - another breed at risk for MDR1. She had her dog tested and thankfully her dog doesn't have it. I highly suggest you have your dog tested.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Since the mum has merle, I think there is a good chance she has some collie, Aussie, or other sheepdog in her. Not a 100% chance: dachshunds and some other breeds also carry merle. However, I think a sheepdog of some sort is the most likely outcross due to their size, structure, and availability. 

If she has sheepdog, she has a chance of the MDR1 mutation. Despite the high frequency in sheepdogs, not all have the mutation. I've heard the frequency ranges from around 70% in collies ( the Lassie type) to 50% in Aussies to 15% in Shelties. I'd guess her chances are greater than zero but nowhere near 50% for having the mutation. 

If you were going to breed her (keeping in mind that the pups probably can't be registered due to their merle grandmama), I would want her tested for the MDR1 along with recessives common to poodles. Low chance is greater than no chance.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

This site may have some useful information for you:




__





Dog Coat Colour Genetics






www.doggenetics.co.uk





This thread has additional discussion and resources:


https://www.poodleforum.com/threads/merle.252346/thread



If the merle weren't present, this site would be another resource:





COLOR BREEDING IN POODLES


ARPEGGIO Poodles information on color breeding in poodles



arpeggiopoodles.tripod.com


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

I second what Skylar said about the MDR1 possibility. I have a beautiful blue merle Rough Coated Collie. You literally have to be careful with everything. If she got dihrea, you can't treat her with imodium or pepto. I keep a big bottle of stuff I get from Petco/Petsmart for dogs that she can take. She can't take a lot of meds that everyone else takes for granted in dogs. And depending on the dog there can be little to no margin of error. The pattern of blue merle/silver on the head & how the white is looks very much to me like a sheltie, collie, sheepdog, etc... pattern of color in a merle. It's almost like a color cap laid on a white head. I'm putting in quite a bit of time on the color of the Poodle. I have yet to find proof or convincing evidence that the poodle has merle in it (at least the purebred ones).


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