# Possible tooth problem for Dakota



## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Hopefully this can resolve on its own, but if not I'm sure your vet will know what to do, even if it's to refer to a dental specialist. Good luck; fingers crossed this isn't an issue and just a stage in Dakota's maturation .

He sure does have a great smile! That and his proud, happy tail make for a great photo.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

It looks like a baby tooth to me. Can you text/email the picture to your vet?


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Looks like a retained baby tooth to me. You know sometimes they just don't get all of those tiny teeth on the top sides. I am not even sure how many they are supposed to have because all of my girls have had a different number. And it makes sense, if there is no adult tooth to push it out, the baby tooth may stay put.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Mfmst said:


> It looks like a baby tooth to me. Can you text/email the picture to your vet?


Yes. I think I will email these pictures to them to see if they want to see him sooner. Unfortunately my vet does not have dental x ray machine. I would probably need to take him to university vet school for that.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Some vets won't do teeth and neutering at the same time. I called 10 vets and only two of the 10 would have agreed to do it. Ask to be sure.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Right now I had only requested they look at the tooth during the day of neutering. But I am beginning to feel like I want them to look at it before so we can make a game plan in case x rays are needed.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

MiniPoo said:


> Right now I had only requested they look at the tooth during the day of neutering. But I am beginning to feel like I want them to look at it before so we can make a game plan in case x rays are needed.



That would be crazy to do two anesthesias. I am sure that they can tell if it is a baby tooth by looking at it.
Timi is getting her spay and dental (including x-rays at the same time. A baby tooth takes but a second to pull.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Going to take in printouts of his teeth tomorrow to the vets and make an appointment to discuss the tooth. I want to know if it is a baby tooth or what. My question is if it is a baby tooth, do they have to do an x-ray to see if there is another tooth, or do they just pull the baby tooth and either leave a blank spot with no tooth or just wait to see if a permanent tooth appears.

Or is this just a late permanent tooth coming in. If so, I think the tooth might be lined up to hit the tooth below it. I don't want to wait a month just to identify the tooth although I know I might have to wait longer to resolve this issue.

I took another picture with the mouth more closed than last time.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

When does Timi get spayed and have dental work? I was just wondering which of our dogs will be first.

BTW, TP, I tried to PM you but you need to delete some messages to receive more PMs. You are a popular lady.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

MiniPoo said:


> When does Timi get spayed and have dental work? I was just wondering which of our dogs will be first.
> 
> BTW, TP, I tried to PM you but you need to delete some messages to receive more PMs. You are a popular lady.



Sorry about that, I shall delete!
Timi is scheduled for 9/23/15


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

MiniPoo said:


> Going to take in printouts of his teeth tomorrow to the vets and make an appointment to discuss the tooth. I want to know if it is a baby tooth or what. My question is if it is a baby tooth, do they have to do an x-ray to see if there is another tooth, or do they just pull the baby tooth and either leave a blank spot with no tooth or just wait to see if a permanent tooth appears.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know Timi is a much smaller dog, but her adult teeth there look just like that, just a little nub sticking out of the gum, one even shorter than the other.
But if it is a baby tooth, no X-rays needed, baby teeth do not have the kind of roots that adult teeth have, they will eventually rot, so they got to go, no matter if there is an adult tooth to replace it or not. But in this picture it really looks exactly like Timi's adult tooth. Those little ones on the side are always a bit wonky, sometimes entirely missing, or very tiny. They are also in my experience the first to go from attachment loss when they get older, so I would say he is well rid of it if it is a baby tooth that has to go and he does not have a replacement for it.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Wait a second, strike what I just said - I think I had the picture upside down. It is the tooth in front of the long canine, not behind it, right? Well if that is right, it does look like it is an adult tooth growing in, and might hit the one below. THAT is the same tooth that Timi is getting pulled because the one below is hitting it :-(
She is also getting an X-ray, not for that but because the baby canines came out after the adult ones were in, and the top part of one of them was missing so we need to make sure that it wasn't retained. If it was, they have to open a flap and remove it.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Dropped off pictures of Dakota's teeth at the vet and spoke with the vet tech who actually does the teeth cleaning. She thought it was an adult tooth but agreed it might be heading in the wrong direction. She said if the vet thought the tooth should come out, it could be done on the day he gets neutered. She also added that this tooth has a long root. So I hope that she does not have to take it out.

I have an appointment for Wed. morning to talk to the vet about this. If she thinks it is an adult tooth, we might end of waiting longer to see what direction it takes. 

I thought there would be no teeth issues with Dakota. Not happy to see there might be a problem.

By the way, which teeth are the canine and which are the incisors? I have heard the long eye teeth called both names by different people.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Cayenne is 2 and I was told they pulled all her baby teeth, but I took her to the vets and sure enought there was a loose baby tool on the right side and the vet pulled with his fingers. I am taking her next week as there is one on the other side but they have to put hour out for a second the vet said, and it looks like your photo


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

When they say "long root", they mean that they have to cut a flap in the gum to take it out.
That is exactly what they told me before Timi's canines fell out. And if that stump is in there, they will have to do it anyhow.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

The canines are the really long pointy ones, ( I call them "fangs" for fun) and the incisors are all the smaller ones in front, between the big canines.

Best of luck with your vet visit and keep us updated.

Viking Queen


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

From the back of the mouth forward, they are; Molars, Pre-Molars,Canines, Incisors.
Molly is missing several pre-molars.....genetics are probably the cause. She had all her baby teeth and lost them on schedule, but some of her pre-molars never grew in! It's actually common in small dogs for this to happen!


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

MollyMuiMa said:


> From the back of the mouth forward, they are; Molars, Pre-Molars,Canines, Incisors.


Now I understand! Thank you!


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

TP, good luck with Timi's procedures next week. I hope the x-ray shows no tooth root to dig out.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

MiniPoo said:


> TP, good luck with Timi's procedures next week. I hope the x-ray shows no tooth root to dig out.



OMG next week?! I can't breath, somehow I was thinking we had two weeks!!
Not to sound weird, but there is a 25 percent chance that Timi and I might get on a plane for Mexico instead and explore her heritage (she is 1/4 Mexican). The cost of the trip would probably be less....


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Damn it, damn it, damn it. I think Teaka broke a tooth. It doesn't hurt her, so I think I am just going to wait to deal with it after Timi. I just can't fathom having both of them go under the same day...


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I hate teeth issues! Perhaps Teaka will not need her tooth pulled, just smoothed out. That is what they did with Neeka.

I agree about your waiting until after Timi is through her procedures. Only so much stress we can handle.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

MiniPoo said:


> I hate teeth issues! Perhaps Teaka will not need her tooth pulled, just smoothed out. That is what they did with Neeka.
> 
> I agree about your waiting until after Timi is through her procedures. Only so much stress we can handle.



Sigh, this looks like a pretty deep chip on the center of the one upper molar that she has that occludes with a lower one so it would be good if she could keep it, but I doubt it. At her age, I think they would say to pull it, because you don't want to have to go back to do that when she is 15, or 18... 
Besides, either way it means anesthesia, and that is what I fear the most.
As a first step I am going to have to take her to the cardiologist.
I did not think that her body handled the anesthesia well the first dental three years ago :-(
And nope, no way could I handle them both going under on the same day, and both recovering the next week. I need to make sure that Timi is squared away first and then I can give Teaka all of my attention.
Sorry to take over you thread, but it seemed like the right place for worried Mama talk


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

But on the positive side, I should give a plug to Petplan at least this won't mean $3,000 extra in vet bills that I was not expecting, maybe 2-5 hundred. If I can get the vet to document that the Cardiology visit is part of the pre-op to the dental, that will save me a $200 deductible. And I think that is legitimate - at 13, even if she did not have a murmur, it would probably be prudent to check her heart before anesthesia.


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Dechi said:


> Some vets won't do teeth and neutering at the same time. I called 10 vets and only two of the 10 would have agreed to do it. Ask to be sure.


That's right. Once, I had asked my vet to neuter Tuffy and to clean his teeth at the same time, and he said no. I didn't understand why not ( and stupid me didn't ask him--this was way back in the 1980's), but because I trusted my vet, I let the teeth cleaning go until another time. They weren't bad anyway, but I thought I would do both at the same time. But, nope.

It all depends on the vet.


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Oops, sorry, I thought people were talking about teeth cleaning, not teeth pulling. Sorry.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

Not that this will help anyone now, but back in the old days (1970s) I asked about the unwillingness to spay and do a dental cleaning at the same time. I was told that teeth cleaning is an inherently dirty task and that the vet did not want to risk the chance of cross contamination... even though the risk could be reduced by shrouding,etc. they just did not want to do it. I also remember that the vet was reluctant to do two procedures at once on a dog if he felt that the length of time under anesthesia would be too much for the animal. Of course, this is from a long time ago, so I don't know if any of it still applies.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Charmed said:


> Not that this will help anyone now, but back in the old days (1970s) I asked about the unwillingness to spay and do a dental cleaning at the same time. I was told that teeth cleaning is an inherently dirty task and that the vet did not want to risk the chance of cross contamination... even though the risk could be reduced by shrouding,etc. they just did not want to do it. I also remember that the vet was reluctant to do two procedures at once on a dog if he felt that the length of time under anesthesia would be too much for the animal. Of course, this is from a long time ago, so I don't know if any of it still applies.



Timi isn't having a cleaning, she is getting an X-ray, and one or more extractions.
The Surgeon who is doing her spay is really fast, like under two minutes, so the time difference will be negligible. I wish she didn't need the dental because that will take more time, but it would make little difference if it was done separately.
And I really like their dental person. When Tangee and Teaka had their dentals there 3 years ago, Tangee was under nearly four hours, and Teaka two, and they both did fine, so I have to believe that some extra time should be fine for Timi.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

*Will be getting x-ray at Univ of Illinois*

I took Dakota to the vet today for her to look at the mystery tiny tooth. She also thought it was an adult tooth growing in the wrong direction. All the rest of his teeth looked fine.

She recommended that we get an x-ray even if we decide to extract the tooth just be make sure of what we are dealing with. Is it a late development? A partial eruption? Is the root long or is it short? An x-ray would help her know if she got the whole thing if she takes it out during the neutering next month and would tell her which direction the root lies. She also said that the U. of Illinois has a nationally known dental person running the department of dentistry, and she could let me know what options I have for the tooth.

So they gave me a referral to the U. of I. and made an appointment for next Wed. morning at 8:30 am for an x-ray. If they tell me they can put some sort of orthodontic appliance on the tooth, I doubt very much I would want to put the dog through that. I did that before for a crooked canine and it is several months out of the dog's life when they cannot play with another dog or have anything hard in their mouths. But the information from an x-ray would be helpful. 

The good thing is the U. of I. Vet School is 10 minutes away from where I live. The other good thing is that Dakota has a Pet Plan policy. I figure after I see the Vet School person I can submit a claim.

So I will let the forum know what the x-rays and the dental consultant says next week.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

MiniPoo said:


> I took Dakota to the vet today for her to look at the mystery tiny tooth. She also thought it was an adult tooth growing in the wrong direction. All the rest of his teeth looked fine.
> 
> She recommended that we get an x-ray even if we decide to extract the tooth just be make sure of what we are dealing with. Is it a late development? A partial eruption? Is the root long or is it short? An x-ray would help her know if she got the whole thing if she takes it out during the neutering next month and would tell her which direction the root lies. She also said that the U. of Illinois has a nationally known dental person running the department of dentistry, and she could let me know what options I have for the tooth.
> 
> ...



Yes, if it as an adult tooth Petplan should cover it at 80% for a specialist, 100% for your vet's part of it, but unless they have a different type of Dental X-ray than my Vet has, they have to be under anesthesia for the X-ray - did they discuss that with you?
I also thought about doing braces for Timi, but when they said it would be at least 3 or 4 additional anesthesias, I quickly nixed that.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Yes, they will probably anesthesize him. I will talk to them about it when I go, but it should be the quick reversible type. They did this to x-ray Phoenix who had a crooked canine as a puppy. Dakota is not a laid back easy-to-handle dog so will have to be sedated to do the x-ray. Since I think there is value in having the x-ray for the extraction, if no other reason, I will probably go ahead with it.

I have 80% coverage for Dakota. So I don't expect more than that back from the specialist or the vet. Really, anything back would be helpful. So I am not going to worry about the cost or the insurance right now.

I think I had to do the braces for Phoenix because it was a canine headed directly towards the roof of her mouth, as the baby canine had already done and created a hole in her palate. But I think Dakota can live without this tiny incisor. It would be less risk and less trauma to him than having braces, even if the specialist says braces could help.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

MiniPoo said:


> Yes, they will probably anesthesize him. I will talk to them about it when I go, but it should be the quick reversible type. They did this to x-ray Phoenix who had a crooked canine as a puppy. Dakota is not a laid back easy-to-handle dog so will have to be sedated to do the x-ray. Since I think there is value in having the x-ray for the extraction, if no other reason, I will probably go ahead with it.
> 
> I have 80% coverage for Dakota. So I don't expect more than that back from the specialist or the vet. Really, anything back would be helpful. So I am not going to worry about the cost or the insurance right now.
> 
> I think I had to do the braces for Phoenix because it was a canine headed directly towards the roof of her mouth, as the baby canine had already done and created a hole in her palate. But I think Dakota can live without this tiny incisor. It would be less risk and less trauma to him than having braces, even if the specialist says braces could help.



But if it needs to be extracted, wouldn't it make sense to have the dentist do it while he is under for the x-ray? Why would you wait to have the Vet do it while he is neutered?


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I have an appointment for a consultation and possibly an x-ray. I have not scheduled an extraction with them. So I am not expecting them to do anything but the consultation. This tooth is not an urgent matter as far as I know.

I am glad to have access to specialists but prefer my dogs to be treated by my vet unless the procedure is one requiring special knowledge. At vet schools you often get a student doing surgery. I prefer an experienced vet.

Plus I had a dog pick up a intestinal disease while being treated at the vet school. It was cured with antibiotics simply enough but I only go to the vet school when no other choice. So I am mostly interested in a consultation and perhaps a quick anesthesia to do an x-ray. If they suggest an extraction, I will have a lot of questions before I would agree to it.

Before my vet does surgery, they do a pre-opt blood test. I do not expect them to do that at the vet school for a consultation. So I would rather wait for surgery unless they give me a good reason not to wait. My own vet has done this type of extraction before.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Sorry, I missed that it was a Vet school, I was thinking specialty hospital. 
I think you had better be clear what this quick anesthesia is. It sounds like you are thinking just a light sedative, but at least with the machine they have, my vet said it couldn't be done without full anesthesia - the kind where they are intubated.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I will ask more questions about the anesthesia when I get there. If I am not comfortable I won't do it. My understanding is that it will be a reversable anesthesia that allows the dog to come out of it with an injection. I have no idea if they intubate.

I would like them to x-ray this tooth if possible. Remember, TP, although I am paranoid about anesthesia, I do not worry as much about it as you do.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I am googling dental x-rays for dogs to get a better understanding of the anesthesia and found this explanation of the drug that might be used:

Sedation During Radiographs (x-rays) in Dogs & Cats


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

MiniPoo said:


> I will ask more questions about the anesthesia when I get there. If I am not comfortable I won't do it. My understanding is that it will be a reversable anesthesia that allows the dog to come out of it with an injection. I have no idea if they intubate.
> 
> I would like them to x-ray this tooth if possible. Remember, TP, although I am paranoid about anesthesia, I do not worry as much about it as you do.



Oh is my paranoia showing? Sorry bout that! Guess my basic instinct is to avoid it at all costs....


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I sent a picture of Dakota's small incisor to his breeder and she said that Cyndi, Dakota's mom, had the same type of incisor. It did not interfere with the other teeth and they just left the tooth and even showed her in conformation with the small tooth with no penalty.

So if the small tooth is not going to grow any more, perhaps we can just leave it. I will let them know at the consult next week (Sept. 23).


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

That would be great if you could just leave it!


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