# Heading back to the office and away from “pandemic” puppy



## oodlypoodly (Oct 5, 2021)

Hi all, 

I’ve been informed that my work expects me back in the office in about a month, at the end of November. Despite requesting only 1-2 days actually in the office and the rest remaining work from home, I’m still worried about how my 19 week old minipoo will do at home alone. By the time I start heading into the office, he should be almost 6 months (24 weeks - June 12).

I’ve looked into other tips for all puppies, and these have included:

Less walks (in the middle of the day, etc. to get out of that routine). I’m worried about this because my minipoo, Alfie, seems extremely hyper all the time. Since I live in an apartment, I plan to leave him in his run (which is a second-hand lab-sized area), which will hopefully curb any potential destructive behaviour. I remember reading that puppies should only get 20 minutes physical activity as correlated with their months of age, but I’m sure Alfie would be bouncing off the walls if I did. Today for example, we did about 2 hours of walking altogether, and he still wanted to play ball inside for hours (my greatest apologies to my neighbours below). So essentially, I’m worried that fewer walks will cause him to go crazy, or it will pent up a lot of his energy and cause him to be crazy in the morning/evening.
Good toys. Suggestions open on this one. He seems to flit between toys, and I have tried picking everything up so they seem “new and exciting” but he still doesn’t spend too much time on one. His favourite toys to go back to are a squeaky rubber ball and a plush duck with a squeaker. 
Progressively leaving him alone for longer periods of time. The most I’ve left him alone for is an hour when he was younger, and while he was an angel and sleeping then, I do feel as though I’ve been slacking in this category. Any tips here would be greatly appreciated.

Recently, I’ve noticed that if he’s lying at my feet and I get up to go to the bathroom or something he runs after me immediately, or sometimes cries outside the bathroom door. He usually stops crying or I wait until he stops before I come out, but I’m definitely aware this is a sign I may be slacking regarding that side of training. 

And that’s everything. Are there any poodle-specific tips? Also any tips on the above items would be amazing too!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would start working towards your new routine immediately, and every day. How long will you need to leave him? Is it possible to get home in the middle of the day, or to arrange for someone to visit and perhaps take him out for half an hour?

Start walking and feeding him closer to the time you will be able to on work days. Set up a pattern of a walk or a game, then a rest in his pen with a stuffed kong or similar while you work. If he is anxious stay close at first, but get up, move around, fetch a cup of coffee, etc, so that he learns to settle when you are not where he can see you. When that is going well leave the apartment briefly a few times a day, coming back immediately then staying out a little longer. If you usually have radio or music on that might help. 

The five-minutes-per-month guideline is geared more to formal walks than puppy running and playing, but puppies do tend to be active in short bursts. I do think a visit during the day would help - it is a big change to be left for so many hours when he has company most of the time.


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## oodlypoodly (Oct 5, 2021)

fjm said:


> I would start working towards your new routine immediately, and every day. How long will you need to leave him? Is it possible to get home in the middle of the day, or to arrange for someone to visit and perhaps take him out for half an hour?
> 
> Start walking and feeding him closer to the time you will be able to on work days. Set up a pattern of a walk or a game, then a rest in his pen with a stuffed kong or similar while you work. If he is anxious stay close at first, but get up, move around, fetch a cup of coffee, etc, so that he learns to settle when you are not where he can see you. When that is going well leave the apartment briefly a few times a day, coming back immediately then staying out a little longer. If you usually have radio or music on that might help.
> 
> The five-minutes-per-month guideline is geared more to formal walks than puppy running and playing, but puppies do tend to be active in short bursts. I do think a visit during the day would help - it is a big change to be left for so many hours when he has company most of the time.


Thanks for this! I’ll need to be away from him 7:15am to 5:00pm. With my schedule it’s not immediately possible, but could potentially be if I sacrificed staying at work longer for ie. a longer lunch break, but even then it’s a longer commute.

As for getting someone else to take him out, I feel like I’d be compromising my safety as my only option would be to hire someone and lend them a building key. It’s only me in my “family” and anyone I know is working during the day.

I definitely need to start leaving him alone more, and as you said, in his run while I’m working. I’ve fallen in love with having him on my feet while I work which isn’t good for that.

I also forgot to mention my other worry - his going to the bathroom. I’ve been leaving the apartment to take him out, but I’ve also been leaving the balcony door open so he can use the grass pad there. When I leave him, I plan to move the grass pad in with him so he has somewhere to go. He hasn’t pooped on these artificial turfs at all, but maybe it’ll come.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

With an absence as long as that - 10 hours, and more if you should get delayed - I think I would consider daycare.


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## oodlypoodly (Oct 5, 2021)

fjm said:


> With an absence as long as that - 10 hours, and more if you should get delayed - I think I would consider daycare.


Yeah, I was debating this too. Only thing I was worried about was cost, his ability to stay alone & his safety (he’s already been bitten by a lab who couldn’t handle his puppy crazies). If he was older, do you think he would manage me being away that long or would you suggest daycare if he was 3+ years too?

I’m also thinking of switching my hours to line up with the bus times, so I’d away 9 hours, but still up there for sure.


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## LynnB739 (Jun 28, 2021)

I'm expected to go back to the office 2 days a week beginning in January. I am part of a big company and they decided to put it off until January. Sophie is 4 1/2 months old and I've been with her every day except one. I had relatives in the region and left her at day care for the day. 

When I have to go back, I will be leaving Sophie with my sister, who lives nearby (Sophie's auntie). Alternatively, I am going to take her to a daycare that is run by my vet and which I have used previously. 
I would consider daycare for the days you need to go in. Alternatively, I would have a dog walker come 2 times a day. I personally have had a bad experience with a dog walker. If you don't have a security cam, I would get one and I'd interview the dog walker and subtly ensure she knows you have a camera. I had sciatica and the dog walker stole all but 3 pills from my prescription. The only way you'll know if you trust the person is to interview them, ask for references, and then see how they do. With a security camera, you'll know they are just coming in to care for your pet and that they are really proving the care you are paying for. I have since found a dog walker/cat sitter who is mature and I feel really comfortable with, but I really did my homework before using her.  
Good luck. 🍀


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Oh, dear! I wish it were possible to tell your employer that this was a package deal. You and Alfie will be coming to the office. I read an article recently about a journalist making a deal on one condition of her employment being that she could bring her blind, rescue poodle to work.  They agreed. She counts it as the best deal she ever made. If that’s not possible, you need to arrange for a pet sitter, ASAP, or a full service day care. 
We have an exceptional boarding, grooming, training facility near us. I realize it’s a unicorn. Alfie is going to learn zero in day care. Start googling and all the best for your re entry and Alfie’s success.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

7:15am-5pm? That’s a long time at any age. You will need to break up his day somehow.

I would be hiring a dog walker now and having them come while you’re still working from home. I would also be enforcing nap times so Alfie’s not running on adrenaline. (That’s what you’re seeing when a puppy at that age wants to play ball for hours after a 2-hour walk.)

Whether or not you work from home, all puppies need to learn how to self-soothe and settle, whether they’re tethered, confined, or resting on a mat.

Have you read Ian Dunbar’s _Before & After Getting Your Puppy_? He goes into great detail on this subject. It’s very helpful.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

It's also helpful to do some of your leaving activities, grabbing keys, coat, changing, etc, then _don't leave. _

Save a few emails to read, clean the coffeepot or dishes, things like that. The idea is to disassociate those getting ready to leave activities from you leaving. When he seems to be getting less interested in those activities, do leave, as fjm wrote above.

Is there any sort of building bulletin board or association where you might find someone with an offset schedule or no schedule at all to look in on him those days? No building key to give out and sort of built in accountability.

Get an inexpensive camera now so you can see how he behaves as you go thru this process. I have several versions of this companies cameras and very happy with them. This particular version is a static field of vision. There is pan/tilt version but doesn't seem to be available on amazon.ca atm.

Wyze Cam v3 with Color Night Vision, Wired 1080p HD Indoor/Outdoor Video Camera, 2-Way Audio, Works with Alexa, Google Assistant, and IFTTT : Amazon.ca: Electronics

Your pup is young for that length of time alone and it would still be hard for older dogs. If it's really going to be only the two days a week, then that will make it a bit less difficult for you both.

FYI, once he's accustomed to the time alone, what you'll mostly see on the camera is this, hopefully


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

Start going to the gym in the evenings or mornings so Puppy can get use to seeing you leave.

I went vegan to maximize my bottom line, just an idea.

There's a TON of stay at home old people who are retiring who would love to watch our puppies for emotional support too, so reach out to those people in your network too as an option.


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## oodlypoodly (Oct 5, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> 7:15am-5pm? That’s a long time at any age. You will need to break up his day somehow.
> 
> I would be hiring a dog walker now and having them come while you’re still working from home. I would also be enforcing nap times so Alfie’s not running on adrenaline. (That’s what you’re seeing when a puppy at that age wants to play ball for hours after a 2-hour walk.)
> 
> ...


I think I’ve decided on daycare for him! Just have to find a good one and all that, I’m still super iffy about a dog walker, since it wouldn’t be just my home I’m putting at risk, but everyone in the building too.

Also just wanted to clarify I don’t take him on two hour walks - that seems torturous at his age. I meant rather two hours total of a couple walks over a 16 hour day, with lots of rest in between (30 mins in the morning, 30 mins at my lunch break, then 2 15 mins throughout the day, and then 30 mins in the evening). I will, however, start getting him to nap right after a longer walk to see if that makes a difference with his crazy “coming home” tendencies.

I will look into the Ian Dunbar stuff, thanks!


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## oodlypoodly (Oct 5, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> It's also helpful to do some of your leaving activities, grabbing keys, coat, changing, etc, then _don't leave. _
> 
> Save a few emails to read, clean the coffeepot or dishes, things like that. The idea is to disassociate those getting ready to leave activities from you leaving. When he seems to be getting less interested in those activities, do leave, as fjm wrote above.
> 
> ...


Awww they’re super cute! I actually do have a camera already (with two way sound) so that can be checked off, and I regularly stare at him through it whenever I actually do leave him (he normally sleeps too).

I actually moved into my current apartment pretty recently, and with COVID I haven’t been able to really meet anyone yet. That is a great suggestion though, and I think once I have/am more comfortable/grow my network, that’s totally what I’ll want to ask about! For now I think I’ll go with the daycare idea, but I’d rather not let him get dependent on it, since as you’ve shown from your camera, it is possible for the pups to be okay eventually. I do think some independence is important, especially if I want to sleep through the night with him in his run in another room (which he’s been amazing with so far).

As well, my work days of going into the office switch from once a week then twice every other week. I might apply for once a week permanently while he’s still so young.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

The boys say Thank You 
Another thought...maybe a coworker, if you know of someone who lives not too far? And probably has occurred to you but look for daycare that groups by size, and give it/them a couple of test runs before you actually need them. A couple of half day sessions should do.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Many daycare facilities require your dog to be spayed/neutered. If you're not doing that until 18+ months, you'd better be able start looking now for a facility (or home) that will accept him.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Many daycare facilities require your dog to be spayed/neutered. If you're not doing that until 18+ months, you'd better be able start looking now for a facility (or home) that will accept him.


Good point.

I did a quick search and learned that some daycare facilities will take intact pups up til 6 or 7 months old.

Some will offer "personal" daycare. They'll take your intact dog but group play isn't likely. There may be an option for 1 on 1 time with a caregiver and your pup will be taken out periodically so that's beneficial.

Tom mentioned the 18m age for neutering, if neutering is your plan. There are health benefits in holding off related to bone growth, and possibly some other issues but generally, miniatures have reached physical maturity by 1 year, so if you're considering neuter, that's the earliest. That would mean a shorter time of restricted daycare, if that should happen.

FWIW, your pup will almost surely be reliably housetrained between 6-8months old, but the hours alone are still a big ask for a young pup, even of an adult dog without some interaction or change of pace thru the time. I'd think 6 hours max is the most I'd deliberately ask of my boys unless reliably pad/patch trained for indoors.

Still, I keep coming back to this being only 1 or 2 days out of a week so long as your employer goes with this plan.


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## oodlypoodly (Oct 5, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> Good point.
> 
> I did a quick search and learned that some daycare facilities will take intact pups up til 6 or 7 months old.
> 
> ...


When I got Alfie, the breeder suggested neutering him at 9 months, and I know my vet at the time (planning to change vets since I moved and personal issues) recommended 6 months. Is 18 months more so the norm? Is 9 months too early then? Also why the heck did that vet strongly recommend 6 months and when we told her the breeder said 9 months, she said “oh, well, 9 months at the latest.” (Not a jab at you or the other commenters, more so at this vet since I didn’t appreciate her other actions).

Amazingly, since he was about four months, Alfie has been grass pad trained where I keep it on the balcony and if he needs to go he’ll ring a bell, or if I keep the door open he’ll go then too. Due to this, I’m not too worried about his need to pee throughout the day, but more so his energy levels and mental activity. 

Specifically, when I was young, my family adopted a Jack Russel Terrier and they didn’t know anything about how to raise dogs. Chaos and craziness followed, likely induced by crating this dog during the day, as she always found a way to almost kill herself if she was left anywhere else in attempts to escape. (Good reason why family is not an option when leaving him somewhere).

Alfie’s been a breeze with his crate training (not leaving him there for more than an hour if that) and his ability to sleep through the entire night in his run still stuns me. But, I hope that gives some background on why I’m hesitant to leave him alone, for fear of his going crazy the same way that Jack Russel did.

I’ve actually now been in contact (not officially decided on anything yet) with a dog sitter, who would be able to look after Alfie and Alfie alone, which helps ease my fears for his safety. The price is a teensy bit less than the local daycare facilities, and while Alfie won’t have that opportunity for socialization, it does allow him to remain intact for a while too, and I’ve heard that some pups can acquire bad behaviour from daycares. Thoughts on dog sitters?

Thank you!


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Starting with this ftm


oodlypoodly said:


> When I got Alfie, the breeder suggested neutering him at 9 months, and I know my vet at the time (planning to change vets since I moved and personal issues) recommended 6 months. Is 18 months more so the norm? Is 9 months too early then? Also why the heck did that vet strongly recommend 6 months and when we told her the breeder said 9 months, she said “oh, well, 9 months at the latest.” (Not a jab at you or the other commenters, more so at this vet since I didn’t appreciate her other actions).


Probably around the 1970's when unwanted dog population was increasing greatly, shelters overflowing, and euthanasia a sad solution to the millions of dogs with no home or family the trend turned toward what's called a pediatric spay/neuter, essentially anytime before physical maturity. Vets followed the trend, possible because they didn't feel that many owners would be responsible enough to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Other than euthanasia hanging over these dogs heads, this was not for any medical benefit to the dogs.

If it's to be done at all, holding off til physical maturity is more in the dogs best interests. The hormones lost by the spay/neuter removal of reproductive organs drive growth in all body systems, with orthopedic issues high on the list

Doing a search for threads/posts on spay/neuter will offer a lot more detail.

Physical maturity is reached at different rates with size being the major factor.

















*Some miniature poodles will take up to 12 months to finish growing. Some will finish growing in height around 6-7 months but may take a bit longer to fill out.* 

*Standard poodles can take up to 2 years to finish growing and filling out.*

Your breeder was suggesting 9m probably because mpoos are usually full grown by then but not necessarily physically mature. Think of the earlier spay/neuter in human terms. Why would someone do a vasectomy on a 13yr old male or a hysterectomy on a 13yr old female without a compelling medically necessary reason? They're still maturing and so are these puppies.

copied from another thread

It's a very simple reason but not much studied for long term implications for the individual dogs at the time. There have been studies on effects on the individual dogs since.

Most vets stick with the "party line" because they know it's the surest way to keep overpopulation down but, hopefully, are keeping up with the studies and will be willing to discuss postponement or even foregoing. A lot of their cooperation depends on them betting on the responsible behavior of their clients.

_Sterilizing dogs wasn't always common practice in the United States; throughout much of the 20th century, few dogs were neutered. That changed during the 1970s, when animal welfare groups began to advocate for sterilization as a means for reducing unplanned litters and curbing the euthanization of unwanted animals. Today, between 69% and 78% of dogs in the U.S. are neutered, according to surveys by the American Veterinary Medical Association and the American Pet Products Association, respectively.

Spay/neuter convention gives way to nuance - News - VIN_

similar info
AKC Canine Health Foundation | The Health Implications of Early Spay and Neuter (akcchf.org)

The number of dogs euthanized has dropped dramatically but studies are now showing little to no benefit to to the individual dog for early (aka juvenile or pediatric) desexing, and may be a factor in detrimental outcomes.


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