# Temperament of "performance" poodles



## Lori G (Sep 19, 2014)

While I was researching mpoo breeders, I found one in my local area. I contacted her, told her what I was looking for--silver female companion-- and she said she wouldn't have any silvers in my time frame. We've kept in touch and enjoyed pleasant exchanges via social media. I've never met her personally. I saw recently she had a litter that had a couple silvers so I reached out to to see if any were available, or if things had changed and she may have a silver litter planned after all. I informed her that I am on the waiting list (she doesn't take deposits till pups are born) with a breeder in MN but was just wondering in case things didn't pan out. She asked me if the MN breeder's poodles have good temperaments. I said yes, and volunteered the MN breeders name. Here is what she wrote back to me:

"Ok, she breeds beautiful poodles, I know someone who owns one and she says he's extremely prey driven and does not settle down very well, just giving you someone else's perspective."

I replied: "I know some of her breeding is done with another MN breeders who specifically breed for performance...(named a couple of the breeders)"

She replied: "I breed for performance as well, but I also breed for good temperament, a dog you can live with." I told her I'd keep that in mind and the conversation ended.

So, I'm wondering what she means by that. The implication seems to be that performance poodles are difficult to live with. ? Is there something I don't know? I've been in contact with a PF member who has a 6-month old puppy form our prospective breeder and she is extremely pleased. In fact, her description of her pup sounds IDEAL to me.

Was my local breeder just being catty, trying to diminish my opinion of the MN breeder? I don't get it but it's raised questions in my mind that I know the wisdom of this forum can help me understand.

I've always understood temperament to mean "nice, friendly, cuddly, etc". Isn't suggesting a performance poodle could have a problem settling is a little like suggesting a marathon runner could have a problem laying on the couch to watch TV?


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Within any litter you can find a puppy that has "no off switch." So I imagine not every puppy of a performance breeder will be high drive high energy dogs.

That being said, I have a mini poodle from a performance breeder and I also have a Portuguese Water Dog from a performance breeder. Both these dogs are high energy. Both of these dogs were very difficult as puppies because of their high energy. At the same time, they both DO have off switches and will settle when necessary.

I had a choice of 2 puppies when I went to pick up my mini poodle last year. The breeder had made a lot of videos of the puppies as they grew, and I could see how hyper the silver was, so I chose the blue who we named Dakota.

I personally believe that it is true in a general sense that performance dogs have a higher prey drive and more energy. They are also very playful and very smart. Once you get past the puppy stage, they are a joy to have, but they take a lot of work as puppies.

I wanted a healthy dog and felt a performance breeder placed a premium on good body structure, but as I am getting older, if we do get another puppy, I think I will get a non-performance breeder so that I have a better chance of getting a lower energy dog that is easier to raise as a puppy.

See Dakota and Neeka in my signature picture. Proof they have an off switch.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

For a breeder to make a blanket statement like that with only one dog as an example sounds pretty catty to me. And why didn't she inform you about her silver puppies? This sounds like a breeder I would not get along with. 

If the breeder you have in mind can give you several references, check them out. I bet there is a range in energy levels among the dogs. Not every performance bred litter is going to produce an entire litter of performance champions. Tell the breeder what you are looking for. If she has a good reputation, she'll make a good match. 

My girl has a performance temperament. She is very sweet and loving, and has her snuggly moments, but she also has trouble settling much of the time. She wants to be busy, and she loves to work. Not the right dog for everyone, but the right match for me because I love the challenge and I look forward to rally, obedience, and ability with her in the future.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Oh, I'm interested, too. Have performance poodles gone the way of performance border collies? I didn't think there was the same demand.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

My 3 month old show prospect standard poodle (plus wanting to do agility and rally) is nice and friendly (his fave thing is meeting new people), and he's starting to become a little bit cuddlier, but I don't think he'll ever be a dog that wants to climb in your lap for a cuddle.
However he had a lot of 2's in his temperament test and you can tell. He is very self confident, self assured, high energy, nippy, little brat. He does have enough 3's and 4's on his test that he isn't too impossible to live with. (btw, I love him and he's great, but he does try my patience sometimes  )
A dog for a 'normal' pet household you really want them to have a lot of 3's and 4's on their temperament tests. Very middle of the road type temperament. Not super bold and obnoxious, but also not timid and overly shy.

If the one breeder is breeding dogs that produce puppies that have a lot of 1's and 2's on their temp tests that could make them dogs that are hard to live with.
For performance it's not a bad thing to have some 2's on those tests as you want a dog that thinks it's all that and a bag of chips and be bold and not afraid of things, but too many or combined with 1's and that's going to be a dog that's tougher to live with especially if you don't really know what you're doing.

But not knowing either breeder or their dogs, one cannot really say one way or another.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

I don't necessarily see her statement as catty. She may personally only know one of the other breeders' dogs, but breeders know of one another and I think generally know what the others produce.

If you want a more cuddly type of Poodle, then going with the local breeder may offer more of what you want. Or, your planned breeding may result in a puppy the Minnesota breeder feels is great for you. I would be sure she knows you want a puppy who is a bit more cuddly. A Poodle or other dog can have a correct temperament and yet not be a cuddly dog. Can you try and meet some of the local breeder's dogs?

Have you been attending local shows to chat with people there? That's a good way to get others' experiences with different breeders' lines, too. Conformation, agility, and rally/obedience are all worth attending to do this and get a feel for how your dog could act in your home.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I don't think she is lying to you. There has to be a difference between a pet dog and a performance dog. I personnally will never buy a dog from a performance breeder, even their most laid back one. I need a laid back dog with low energy.

I think this lady is just trying to help. Performance dogs are not for everyone and she knows it.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Double Post.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Streetcar said:


> I don't necessarily see her statement as catty. She may personally only know one of the other breeders' dogs, but breeders know of one another and I think generally know what the others produce.
> 
> If you want a more cuddly type of Poodle, then going with the local breeder may offer more of what you want. Or, your planned breeding may result in a puppy the Minnesota breeder feels is great for you. I would be sure she knows you want a puppy who is a bit more cuddly. A Poodle or other dog can have a correct temperament and yet not be a cuddly dog. Can you try and meet some of the local breeder's dogs?
> 
> Have you been attending local shows to chat with people there? That's a good way to get others' experiences with different breeders' lines, too. Conformation, agility, and rally/obedience are all worth attending to do this and get a feel for how your dog could act in your home.



I very much agree with you. Of course any human can be catty, but breeders KNOW what other breeders produce like we could never ever hope to! They don't need to personally meet the other breeder's dog's, they know exactly what happens with those dogs at every show or event they attend!
That being said, the two highest energy/drive poodles that I have ever had (Taylee and Timi), who both in my opinion would have made exceptional performance dogs, were/are also the most connected, loving, and trainable dogs that I have ever known, both with perfect "off switches" that kicked in sometime between age 1-2. I don't know if all performance dogs are like them, and I won't lie to you, that first year is challenging, (I expect that from the reports of Trulee doing perfect cartwheels at six weeks old, she will be similar, and I am sort of dreading that first year lol - and you really do have to be committed to training, but after that, oh my, they become, in my opinion, the most perfect dogs that I enjoy, and am proud of every moment, no matter what we are doing or where we go!
Teaka on the other hand, she was the most loving, and easy going puppy ever. I really don't remember ever having to train her, like maybe within 2 days of her coming home, she was doing all the basics that you would want a puppy to do. And a total love, that would happily spend 24/7 in your lap. But as wonderful a house dog as she is, she is a terrible "world dog", and nothing I could do ever changed that, therefore, things like having people over, or taking her anywhere are torturous experiences. So in my experience, the easy puppy turned into a difficult dog, but the high drive ones, after putting in lots of work the first year, they became my ideal dogs, who behave perfectly in any situation, and become totally in sync with whatever is happening in my life at the moment (I write as Timi is curled up in a ball in my lap waiting for me to get up and play with her), so for me, that high drive (but loving and connected) puppy is well worth the effort!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Dechi said:


> I don't think she is lying to you. There has to be a difference between a pet dog and a performance dog. I personnally will never buy a dog from a performance breeder, even their most laid back one. I need a laid back dog with low energy.
> 
> 
> 
> I think this lady is just trying to help. Performance dogs are not for everyone and she knows it.



You say that you need a laid back dog with low energy, yet Merlin, just like Teaka is a dog with many issues that you want to work on.
High drive Timi on the other hand, other than loose lead walking, which is mostly an issue of the environment that we live in, what other issues have you heard me complain of? She doesn't have any. She is pretty much the perfect dog in every situation!
Not trying to make you feel bad. I know that you love Merlin with all of your heart, just as I love Teaka. Just food for thought.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Tiny Poodles said:


> You say that you need a laid back dog with low energy, yet Merlin, just like Teaka is a dog with many issues that you want to work on.
> High drive Timi on the other hand, other than loose lead walking, which is mostly an issue of the environment that we live in, what other issues have you heard me complain of? She doesn't have any. She is pretty much the perfect dog in every situation!
> Not trying to make you feel bad. I know that you love Merlin with all of your heart, just as I love Teaka. Just food for thought.


I know, but I prefer a dog with issues like Merlin to a high drive dog. I am not like most people, in the sense that I prefer a dog who doesn't go to everyone and whose trust you have to work hard to gain. These dogs are the most devoted and faithful ones, in my opinion. They will follow you anywhere, they have no desire to go anywhere but where you are. All they want is to be your companion. I like to work for my relationships. I think the ones you work for are the most rewarding. In humans and dogs.

I am sure performance dogs are very rewarding, but I couldn't stand their energy level. It would aggravate me. My brain is always thinking and I can't shut it off so I need calm energies to help me relax. High energies make me go nuts and I have no patience for it.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Dechi said:


> ...
> I am sure performance dogs are very rewarding, but I couldn't stand their energy level. It would aggravate me. My brain is always thinking and I can't shut it off so I need calm energies to help me relax. High energies make me go nuts and I have no patience for it.


There are dogs that are high energy all their lives (like Border Collies) and there are dogs that are high energy and hard to train as puppies because of it, but they mellow out and once trained with the basics are not the same as adults. They go up and down with their energy levels and adapt to their owners.

My Dakota, a high energy poodle from a performance breeder, now curls up by my side on the couch when I am sick, and Neeka, my high energy PWD from a performance breeder, curls up by my legs. They sleep beside me quiet, but if I get up and want to play with them, they are ready ready ready. 

Again, Dakota was not the highest energy dog in his litter, and once he got to about 10-11 months he started adjusting his energy level to what I could handle.

So we can make general statements about performance dogs but individually they have different levels of energy, and if you do not pick the highest energy dog in the litter, you will probably get a happy, playful, active dog when they mature, and not a crazy make hyper poodle.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

I think that a lot of breeders produce a range of temperaments in any given litter, but of course some lines will consistently produce more higher drive dogs than others. 

I grew up around working dogs, and Hans is high drive because we wanted that. He's a great dog, very friendly, and loves people. We train almost daily and we do a lot to keep him from being bored. I also did have days where he drove me nuts, especially before the age of 2. We are both self employed, so he goes to work with us a lot. If he belonged to someone who worked all day and left him home alone and/or someone who didn't have any interest in training, I'm sure he'd have been terrible to live with. For us, he's perfect. As long as he gets enough work during the day, he can chill just fine when we need him to.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Dechi said:


> I know, but I prefer a dog with issues like Merlin to a high drive dog. I am not like most people, in the sense that I prefer a dog who doesn't go to everyone and whose trust you have to work hard to gain. These dogs are the most devoted and faithful ones, in my opinion. They will follow you anywhere, they have no desire to go anywhere but where you are. All they want is to be your companion. I like to work for my relationships. I think the ones you work for are the most rewarding. In humans and dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure performance dogs are very rewarding, but I couldn't stand their energy level. It would aggravate me. My brain is always thinking and I can't shut it off so I need calm energies to help me relax. High energies make me go nuts and I have no patience for it.



I hear what you are saying, and I think that you would probably hate the first year as much as I do (I write with Timi again curled up on my lap in a ball) after that first year, that high energy comes out only at the time that you say and pretty much in exactly the way that you direct it! 
Honest to goodness - I just recently spent about 12 days in bed 23 1/2 x7 ill, and Timi spent the entire time next to me or on top of me. I am not even sure, she may have missed meals, but she was right there with me. But I could go right now and spend five hours at the park with her, and she (ignoring all strangers) would be right there with me too!


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

I have been told and I have observed that temperament is heritable.

I chose Neely (a standard poodle, intact male, now 4 years old) after observation and testing but also influenced by the breeder and the breeder's mom, who owns and shows my boy's grandfather. 

Both women and my friend Judy, who went along to help pick out the puppy, thought he would be the performance dog I was looking for.

Indeed, after we had tested the other two boys, they brought Neely over, set him down, and he pranced in as if to say, "Why did you bother even looking at those other two guys?" He was certainly a handful for ... oh ... two years, and still can be. On the other hand, he's working very competently and happily at the Utility level of obedience and he is everything I hoped for. It is much easier to learn to send energy in the right direction than it is to try to generate some energy when it just isn't there. [Edited to add: he DOES have an off-switch. He and Devlin are currently under my desk, napping on the dog bed I keep there.]

This is all a rather long way of saying that I never once considered getting a purebred puppy where I hadn't met at least the dam, if not both parents, nor of meeting and evaluating the puppy for myself.

My two rat terriers are rescues, but I met and evaluated each of them days before bringing them home, too.

I would strongly advise you to get a puppy from someone who will let you meet the dam and evaluate HER temperament, and meet the puppies too, even if you allow the breeder to choose one for you.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I have no doubts, TP. But I don't want to go through this first year or two. Anyways, I don't buy puppies anymore, so if the dog has the temperament I want, I can see it right away.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Lily and Javelin both are great workers and have lots of drive, but they aren't really anything like performance border collies. Their off switch is easy to find. Lily is in her bed in our room right now and Javelin is sleeping with his head on my foot right now. Neither of them did anything special today since I was gone for about ten hours. It would be very easy to wake one of them up and do some training and then come back in and chill.

I think the thing is to find a breeder who you have a good feeling for and tell that person very clearly what your expectations and plans are. Lily was not from a performance breeder. Javelin's breeder shows in obedience but many of her puppies go to pet homes, as well as a few to show homes.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Dechi said:


> I have no doubts, TP. But I don't want to go through this first year or two. Anyways, I don't buy puppies anymore, so if the dog has the temperament I want, I can see it right away.


Since most people want to buy a young puppy, it good that there are people like you who want to raise an older dog.


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## ItzaClip (Dec 1, 2010)

It depends a lot on what you want and like and can live with.she sounds like sh eis voicing her honest opinion.
i have always loved training animals. as a kid i had my dogs fetching my horses by name and doing crazy trricks., I am fascinated by the way animals learn. So although i got my first white girl based on how she was raised and the only white girl available, i totally selected my silver boy based on temperament. I CHOOSE the boldest, highest drive, the brassyest that will push me. I love the training oportunity, i train an "off switch" and am used to high drive kelpies and border collies that do not settle. My silver boy and a good trainer/agility judge friend of mine have very similar dogs, my silver 15 month old and her 9 month old working line kelpie. 

so, if you do not have the experience, time or energy for a high drive dog, then go with a calmer line. that being said my two dogs are night and day being from different parents but same breeder.

side effects of high drive are energy-needs more physical & mental exercise
stimulated by motion - can easily develop bad habits of chasing livestock, bikes, kids, rodenst etc at the risk of getting hurt & ignoring you. It can be very successfully delt with right from puppy by training using a program such as recallers. 
drivey dogs can become obsessed with things like toys or other dogs and ignore all else-this can be turned into focus for you and agility if you want. or if allowed to practice self rewarding behavior can develop a "deaf ear" when they want.


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## Lori G (Sep 19, 2014)

I'm so glad I brought this topic to the forum! Lots of great advise, as I knew there would be! I will be talking to the breeder later this week so I have new questions to ask.

Overall, we're NOT looking for a couch potato dog. I walk 3-5 miles almost every day. We travel a lot in our RV. We are in lots of new situations and environments, and meet lots of new people who usually have a dog with them. I think my ideal temperament would be very cuddly and strongly bonded to me and hubby, and social, easy going with other dogs, with at least medium to (maybe) medium-high energy level. Our mini Aussie would retrieve a ball, literally, till she could barely walk. I hope my assumption is correct that even a high energy poodle will be like my Aussie--given enough exercise, she would settle at home and was very easy to live with. I guess what I'm hoping will be different in the "poodle temperament and personality" is a little more cuddly and social. Our Aussie loved 99.9% of people, and was ok with other dogs as long as they didn't get "in her face", but she never would PLAY with other dogs. It's partly my fault, which I intend to change with this dog.


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## ItzaClip (Dec 1, 2010)

regarding play, look for confidence, a shy dog is less likely to go greet people without barking, and usually only comfy playing with other shy dogs. Confidant doesnt have to equal high energy. and yes you can get naturally ball crazy an dyou can create ball crazy.


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