# bad behavior post spay...what is going on??



## fjm

Firstly, unless you catch her in the act, she has no understanding that you are scolding her for something that happened more than a few minutes ago. Her body language is trying to calm you because you are angry, not expressing guilt because she understands why you are angry, and associates it with her behaviour. Through punishing her in this way, you have made her afraid of you, and escalated the problem.

Well done on giving her lots of exercise and company. Her change of behaviour could be down to adolescence, or triggered by post operative pain, but the key thing now is to manage it before it becomes a settled habit. I would start by only leaving her in a dog proofed room - possibly also crate training her, but certainly not giving her free run of the house while you are out in the meantime. Teach her to be alone in this new space by giving her a good chew or filled Kong, and leaving for short random periods at first, just as ou would with a puppy. Teach her "On" and "Off" the couch, so she knows what "Off" means - and keep it all light and happy. Buy a garbage bin with a dog proof lid. And remember that dogs don't understand that you can be cross with them about something that happened in the past - be cross with yourself by forgetting to put the shoes/garbage/couch/etc out of reach instead!


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## Gia

Thanks for the insight  I should clarify that we have the little "chat" with her BECAUSE we've caught her in that act. We are both calm people and aware of the energy we're conveying and have done lots of reading on training. She has NEVER been hit nor yelled at...we just change the tone of our voices so she understands that it's not ok and we send her to time-out. This has worked so well until now! We haven't seen this "fear" before because she rarely repeats the same bad behavior...

We taught her "off" months ago and she knows that the couch is off limits and we don't allow her on it when we're home. So she definitely knows better but does it anyway when we're away...it almost seems spiteful. Generally, she is very obedient, submissive and responsive...we house broke her in days. This "rebellious" behavior came on suddenly that's why we thought it may be related to the spay. 

We will start to put her in a puppy-proofed room though. How long before we should start letting her have free reign for a few hours at a time etc...?


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## PaddleAddict

Try not to apply human type emotions or motivations to a dog. It's hard, I know... she isn't being "spiteful" by getting on the couch when you are not there, she is just taking advantage of an opportunity--you're not there to correct her, so she thinks it's a good time to climb on up.

All of her behavior is likely due to adolescence rather than being spayed. My mini started acting up and being more naughty from about 8 months to 12 month old. Limiting her freedom in the house, especially when you are not there to watch her will help enormously. 

My mini is 16 month old and I wouldn't dream of leaving him alone in the house when we are away. Maybe in a few years!


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## PhaedraAllen

I would agree with PaddleAddict and fjm in their assessment. What she sees is that when you come home, you get angry at her. Therefore, she is becoming afraid of you coming home and showing that through her body language.

Jasper was a model dog for the first 8 months and we taught him that 10pm is "night-night" time. When we said night-night, he would go right into the bedroom and into his crate and wait for his night-night treat. He became so good at this that he started to become our alarm clock and right at 10pm, he would stand up and look at us to being walking to the bedroom. He would even heard us with a butt bump as we walked down the hall.

Then one day around 8 or 9 months, he suddenly refused to go into the bedroom. We were aghast and thought, okay, we will just put the leash on and lead him into the bedroom. He refused to come, refused to sit, and would even dodge us and stay just out of reach around the kitchen island. He did this every night for about 2 weeks. I refused to give in, even though my DH said, well maybe he wants to sleep out here or maybe he wants this or that. No way…this is the way it is and I refused to give in. We leashed him, guided him guided him into his crate and gave him his night-night treat.

I just refused to change the routine, he had to learn that this was the way we functioned in this household. After a couple weeks of that, very suddenly one night, he just popped up at 10pm and was back into the original routine as if the previous 2 weeks never even happened.

We thought it was so odd that he would just up and change like that but I really think that it was one of those adolescent things to test what would happen if he changed his actions. I believe that if we would have given in or altered the routine at all, that it would have given him the impression that he has control over our routines and it just isn’t so.

So I would say, stay vigilant, consistent, positive, and patient and make alterations that allow her to be successful in resuming the routines that your rules establish (i.e. removing the temptations in the room and giving her something to occupy her time. Maybe even turning on the radio for her). And leaving for small bits of time over and over again, like training sessions.

I hope everything works out well. I have lost many a high heel to chewing dogs, not to mention ALL of the presents under the Christmas tree one year. But that’s a story for a different day. Good luck!


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## JE-UK

Sounds like poodle adolescence. Mine 'forgot' all his obedience when he was a teenager. Happily, they come through it.

I'd go back to pre-trust proofing ... lidded garbage cans, shoes in closets, lots of appropriate chewables around the house.

It's likely the peeing when caught on the couch is a submissive/appeasement behaviour.

Couches and beds are lovely comfy places for dogs to lie. I still have to close my bedroom door when I go out, or my otherwise well-behaved 18 month-old makes a beeline for it. If you don't want her on the sofa when you are away, I'd remove access. Shut her in a puppy proofed room, or use baby gates to contain her.

At this age, it's very important that dogs don't build self-rewarding behaviours, as the more the dog does it (whatever it is), the more it builds into a habit.

On the positive side, they come out of it and revert back to their lovely poodle selves!


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## fjm

Sorry - didn't mean to sound bossy, but it is so easy for dogs to get a message very different to the one we intend to deliver. I have always considered myself fairly relaxed about housetraining - never making a fuss about incidents that I recognised were really my fault - but when Poppy peed on the landing carpet in the 30 seconds I was in the bathroom in the middle of the night I was filled with righteous indignation. I grabbed her and put her outside for a few minutes, and grumbled sleepily with cloths and cleaners, before eventually we all got back to bed. For the next few weeks, every time I got up in the night to go to the loo, Poppy hid under the bedroom chair. The message she had got was that sometimes I come back from the bathroom in a very bad mood, so it was best to be prepared.

Last night as I was going to bed I found a bottle of shampoo had tipped over in the bathroom, making a sticky mess all over the floor. The dogs took one look at the familiar sight of me on my knees with a damp cloth muttering imprecations, and vanished ...


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## Gia

JE-UK...can you please elaborate on "It's likely the peeing when caught on the couch is a submissive/appeasement behaviour"...

Thanks everyone...we love her and definitely want to better communicate with her and see her succeed! 

xx


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## plumcrazy

Gia said:


> JE-UK...can you please elaborate on "It's likely the peeing when caught on the couch is a submissive/appeasement behaviour"...
> 
> Thanks everyone...we love her and definitely want to better communicate with her and see her succeed!
> 
> xx


Just google "submissive urination" and you'll find lots of articles... Here's just the first one I found...

Submissive Urination in Dogs


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## JE-UK

Gia said:


> JE-UK...can you please elaborate on "It's likely the peeing when caught on the couch is a submissive/appeasement behaviour"...
> 
> Thanks everyone...we love her and definitely want to better communicate with her and see her succeed!
> 
> xx


There are a whole host of behaviours that dogs will offer up to others (dogs AND people) that are designed to reduce the perceived aggressiveness of the other. Dogs both offer and respond to these signals, which helps keep the peace. 

Have you ever seen a one dog run up to another in the dog park, and seen the second dog flop over on its back? That's an appeasement behaviour; it says to the first dog "I'm not challenging you, don't hurt me." 

Submissive piddling is one of these behaviours. If she can see you are angry, upset, agitated, she will offer up something in her own language, trying to tell you "don't hurt me, don't be angry".

Turid Rugaas book on dog body language is FASCINATING, if you are interested.


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## JE-UK

fjm said:


> Last night as I was going to bed I found a bottle of shampoo had tipped over in the bathroom, making a sticky mess all over the floor. The dogs took one look at the familiar sight of me on my knees with a damp cloth muttering imprecations, and vanished ...


I had to laugh ... years ago, I was making an abortive attempt at some DIY plumbing, and managed to tear the skin off my hand while on my back under the sink. A TORRENT of blue language followed, as you might expect. When I crawled out, both the dogs and the cat had scurried off and were hunkered down in the back bedroom waiting to see who was in trouble.


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