# "Onyx"



## whitepoodles

We had exciting news today from our wonderful U.S. Handler, Becky Arch.

Onyx started his U.S. show career with Becky this weekend winning back to back Winner's Dog for 5 points including a 3 Point Major.

We are very proud of our "Onyx", Multi Group Placing and BPIG winner, Ch. Ormar Back'N Black.

Onyx is the winner of 10 best puppy in group's , finished his Cda. Ch. his first weekend out, in two days at age 6 mos. with multiple group placements.

He has wonderful temperament and a COI of 1.33%


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## outwest

Congratulations! What a pretty boy he is! I love that puppy cut they are doing now, too. It makes their legs look so long. 

I thought in Canada they had to be a minimum of 2 years old to finish, but maybe it Europe where they have the age requirement? I always thought that was a good idea. Most dogs in the US get a majority of their points as a puppy, don't they?


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## whitepoodles

outwest said:


> Congratulations! What a pretty boy he is! I love that puppy cut they are doing now, too. It makes their legs look so long.
> 
> Outwest:  Thank you.
> 
> The puppy cut, as depicted in this photo is the pattern which is acceptable in N. America for any puppy 6-12 mos. to be shown in.
> 
> When the dog is 12 mos. old, according to AKC/CKC show rules and regulations all dogs must be in open trim (continental pattern) in order to continue compeeting.
> 
> In Europe they can be shown at all ages in this puppy cut, they call the Scandinavian trim, which is much more ellaborate and extreme and sports a much longer top knot ,neck hair, and leg coat, but at the same time is so overly exagerated that it lends to be decieving to the eye unless you have your hands on the dog to see what is really under the massive coat, and the overly done and exagerated scissored front and rear angle. Given the Scandinavian trim is very exagerated and in many instances
> even masks many faults that the dog has in a very exagertated way , still many European exhibitors show their dogs in this trim. There are however others who do put them in the Continental pattern in which case the structure of the dog and movement is much easier to evaluate from a spectator's point of view since judges have the option to go over the dog piecemeal, while spectators evaluate a dog based only on what they see in the ring without touching or grading the dog's conformation.
> 
> I thought in Canada they had to be a minimum of 2 years old to finish, but maybe it Europe where they have the age requirement? I always thought that was a good idea. Most dogs in the US get a majority of their points as a puppy, don't they?


 In both Canada and the U.S. any dog can finish at any age, unless it is before 6 mos. of age, which is the age that show dogs are allowed to compete for championship points, according to AKC/CKC rules and regulations.
The age at which a dog completes his/her title is not necessarily a measurement of their quality or worthiness as a show dog. Many dogs which should not even be shown are and finish thier titles and then go on to be cut down and labelled "champions", but does this mean they are worthy of the title.... not necessarily so.

Same applies in Europe, just because a dog is not allowed to finish their conformation title before the age of 2, meaning they can finish their title earlier , but they are not allowed to receive their Ch. confirmation from the FCI until such time they are 2 years of age, does not mean that they are worthy to be labelled Ch. There are many factors and variables involved in a dog attaining their title in both Cda., U.S.A and in Europe, and one must really be deep in the show world to be able to know what is really involved, as it is not always the quality of the dog which attains its Ch. title, but other factors and many breeder exhibitors will know what this means.

Many dogs in both Cda. and the U.S. do attain their points and Ch. title as puppies, BUT..... there are puppies which attain thier Ch. points and finish as puppies with BEST OF BREED OVER SPECIALS, GROUP PLACEMENTS, GROUP FIRST WINS, MULTIPLE BEST PUPPY IN GROUP & BEST PUPPY IN SHOW HONORIFICS AND THIS is a worthy championship as a puppy.

For any puppy to finish with a point here and a point there is a nice achievement as a puppy, BUT when a puppy attains their Championship in BOTH Canada and the U.S. with honorifics such as Breed from the puppy class, or multiple best puppy in group wins, and multiple group placements at such a young age, is definitely an indication that the puppy is WORTHY as a show dog/bitch and its conformation and showmanship is indeed worthy to be put up and credit.

I love when puppies finish their CH. title as puppies as long as they have multiple BPIG, Group Placements and Breed wins from the junior and/or senior puppy class, and this is what I as a breeder/exhibitor will label a WORTHY PUPPY CHAMPIONSHIP TITLE.


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## Olie

That is wonderful! Now Onyx is a stunning boy! Kudos to you for your program Ora, you put out show stoppers. :angel2:


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## whitepoodles

Thanks Katina for your nice comments. We try our best. 
Cant wait for May 19


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## cavon

Go beautiful Onyx!!!!! It won't be long now!!!!!


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## tintlet

YEAH!!!! He should finish FAST!!!!


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## Chagall's mom

Congratulations, Ora! Onyx is positively superb! He's a total looker, destined to go all the way from the very start. Your poodles are just exquisite!


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## rubymom

Such grace and beauty! Congratulations on your new champion!
And thanks for the photos!!!


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## whitepoodles

Thanks guys for the wonderful comments.

It seems many of us on PF and FB had a good weekend with our spoos.
Congratulations to all .


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## pudel luv

CONGRATS Ora and Onyx !

Onyx has a lot of style for a youngster ... of course, 
we'd expect nothing less from the Ormar Gang. 
As Olie said, show stoppers they are !

Look forward to seeing this boy soar lane:


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## whitepoodles

thanks Pudel Luv.
Hope you are well. Great to see you posting again.


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## Sapphire-Light

Congrats!! what a handsome boy :angel:

I love his muzzle, the tail and the deep color, has he stared the coat change yet?


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## whitepoodles

Sapphire-Light said:


> Congrats!! what a handsome boy :angel:
> 
> I love his muzzle, the tail and the deep color, has he stared the coat change yet?



Thanks Sapphire-Light:

He has a strong foreface with tremendous underjaw.
His coat from what my handler told me is fabulous and has amazing texture and quality, he had this as a puppy and continues to have it. He is a coat factory and grows coat from night to day LOL

His coat change was trully uneventful. He has such good coat quality that it does not lend itself to mats so dealing with his coat during the coat change was a breeze. The handler did however tell me that it takes her forever to blow him dry because he has so much coat and it is so thick and profuse she needed 1.5 times the amount to do him out than it required her to do her other standards. This boy never wore a single switch in his top knot. It is all his coat and it is huge..


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## Raena

I absolutely LOVE your boys!! (well, really all of them )


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## whitepoodles

Raena:

Thank you for your nice comments. 

WOHOOOO Onyx won 7 points including a 3 point major in his first 4 days of showing in the U.S. 

His half litter sister "Nina", our 8.5 mos. old Cole X Lola daughter, won back to back group placements, 3 Best Puppy In Group wins and again this past weekend went Winner's Bitch for additional points under well known and respected U.S. judge Mrs. Keke Khan. 

The Ormar kids have done us proud.


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## whitepoodles

Nina's sister "Willow" will be starting her show career in Canada owner handled by Christina of Belleville, Ontario.

she is pictured below at 5.5 mos. old. A real sweetie with a wonderful and showy temperament just like her sire Cole.

Christina would like to do it owner/handler and I have encouraged her to try it out. I wish I had the guts to step in the ring with my guys. 

Too old for this anyway, LOLOL


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## whitepoodles

Not a great stack photo of Willow, but one that was taken of her for the first time after she was put into show pattern at age 8 mos.

Her owner sure knows how to grow coat on this puppy.

Next to Willow's photo is proud dad, "Cole" (butt)


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## cavon

I'll try to get some good photos of both of the Ormar girls at Erie, Ora!!


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## whitepoodles

Thank you PonkiPoodles and Cavon.

Crystal, I would trully appreciate you taking photos of the two sisters for me, as I wont be at the Nationals this year, I am going to Mass to the Poodle Club of Massachusetts to see my boy Onyx being shown there by Becky and to meet my U.S. breeder friends. Will be a hoot, looking forward to this mini vacation and seeing my boy again.


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## Olie

:beauty:

 your dogs! Cole looks good from any side LOL.


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## whitepoodles

LOL I wish my butt would look as good as his. 

He has been biked everyday during summer months , and was in top condition while he was showing.

Winter, I am working them on a treadmill at home and also 1 hour off lead walk in the woods


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## caboodles

What a handsome young boyy!!!
He's going to be a heartbreaker around the lady poodles I bet!


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## whitepoodles

[*QUOTE=caboodles;171408]What a handsome young boyy!!!
He's going to be a heartbreaker around the lady poodles I bet![/QUOTE]*


Caboodles:

He already is... .. He loves the ladies and passionately courts them before getting down to business  

I get out a nice bottle of red when a girlfriend of his comes over for a romantic weekend...... LOL


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## caboodles

Candlelight dinner by the fireplace?


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## whitepoodles

caboodles said:


> Candlelight dinner by the fireplace?




Definitely, a juicy Angus beef 16 ouncer


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## CT Girl

He is so handsome - it is not surprising he has done so well. I am interested in what you said about his coat quality. Lots of hair is a plus but what texture and other qualities do the judges look for in a quality coat. Swizzle has his puppy coat which seems soft. Is this considered a flaw? Can you tell from a puppy coat how the adult coat will turn out?


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## whitepoodles

CT Girl said:


> He is so handsome - it is not surprising he has done so well. I am interested in what you said about his coat quality. Lots of hair is a plus but what texture and other qualities do the judges look for in a quality coat. Swizzle has his puppy coat which seems soft. Is this considered a flaw? Can you tell from a puppy coat how the adult coat will turn out?



CT girl:

Thanks for your nice comments re: Onyx.

Onyx has a profuse ,dense , black coat, which hardly mats and he has gone through coat change in a very uneventful manner.

He did not require the hard work that some put into dematting due to matting overnight.

The texture is harsh specific to the breed standard.

When he was 4-5 mos. old strangely enough he had soft coat, yet still thick and profuse, but once he turned 7-8 mos. old his coat started to change and acquired beautiful harsh texture which you want to see in a poodle, as it is the correct texture judges look for in the ring.

Soft coats tend to mat, but grow much faster once the dog goes through coat change. Dogs who have harsher, denser and coarser coats tend to grow it at a much slower pace. The latter will break if not gingerly taken care of while growing into special's coat.

Both Cole & Onyx have profuse, harsh and heavy coats. When I do Cole out, I dread the blow drying since it takes me literally hours to dry him out his coat is so thick. Onyx is currently with his U.S. handler so she is the one who takes care of him. (LOL so sorry Becky  as he has the same texture as Cole does.

Judges who know and are familiar with the breed standard and have had thier hands on various types of poodle coats will usually know what is and isnt a good quality coat and do come to appreciate a harsh textured profuse coat if faced with it in the ring.

I will accept a soft coat on a puppy, but once the coat has gone through changes circa 15-19 mos. it should be of profuse, dense and harsh texture.

Althgouh softer coats will grow faster than the harsher denser one, they do not hold a scissoring job as well as the harsh profuse coat and require a ton of spray to put the dog properly up in the ring. 

The dog sporting a profuse harsher wiry coat will hold a nice scissoring job and will require much less work in putting the top knot and neck hair up before they step into the ring , they will also hold the spray better and require less spray than the dogs who have softer coat.

It is great if one can accomplish producing a line which consistently produces correct poodle coats.

I have no idea how old your dog is, but if he is still a puppy give him sometime to see what his coat is like after the coat change (should be around 17 mos. of age).. If after this his coat is still soft that means he just has a soft coat but nothing that will detract from his quality ofcourse. And.. NO it is not considered a flaw at all, many show dogs sport a light soft coat and they are still showing and finishing, and... at times you can and at times you cant tell from a puppy coat what the adult coat will mature like and become. 

Perfect example with Onyx, he had soft coat as a puppy up to 8 mos. old and then after the uneventful easy coat change , his coat is of beautiful dense and harsh texture.. so you can never 100% predict what a coat will be like at maturity from puppy hood, like you cant always predict what a puppy will look like at 9 mos. old when you see it at 9 weeks old.


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## tintlet

I have a 1/2 sister to Onyx...Anna has the same type coat. very little matting thru coat change, although I did keep her short. We have a new girl working at our shop, she bathed all our dogs last weekend. when she got to Anna, her comments were that it was the coat was so easy to wash and rinse, and dry!! 

Keep us posted on his wins )))))


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## whitepoodles

tintlet said:


> I have a 1/2 sister to Onyx...
> Keep us posted on his wins )))))



LOL and you are only telling me this now ? 

Did you breed one of your bitches to Patrick or did you purchase a bitch from someone who bred to Patrick. Love this boy. Pls. post a photo of Anna.

Onyx has only been shown 6 days and is up to 9 points including a 3 point major. We miss him so.

More good news, this weekend was the first time that Nina's sister (Cole X Lola) "Willow" was shown by her owner, Christina Pattison of Belleville, Ontario. This was the first time Christina ever stepped into a show ring with a dog.

She wanted to show her girl owner/handled and won Winner's Bitch, and was pointed her first time out, under noted breeder judge Sue Ellen Remple, much to the delight of her owner/handler 

Willow's regist. name is Ormar Whisperin Willow. I will post a photo of her, although it is not the best as she was not stacked but just stood there while Christina took the shot.


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## whitepoodles

This is our Nina's litter sister, "Willow" .... Ormar Whisperin Willow.

Pointed her first time out at the shows at 8.5 mos. old owner handled.

Way to go Willow.

Head shot taken when she was 5.5 mos. old, and body shot taken when she was 7.5 mos. old.

Both Nina and her sister Willow are half littermates to my boy Onyx and his sister Ceili, both Can. Ch. in short order and Onyx well on his way to his U.S. Ch. and his sister Ceili pointed at her very first U.S. shows, owner handled from the junior puppy class.


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## Dolce and Louis

Ora

He is beautiful!


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## Teffy

Beautiful! There's something about white poodles...like graceful clouds floating by. Willow is a very nice name. If my next dog is a female...Willow is definitely it. Hey...I think I'm off topic. I think, this was about Onyx LOL! Good luck with Onyx...he's gorgeous too!


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## whitepoodles

Teffy:

Thanks so much. I just came back from the Mass. U.S. shows and am thrilled with what Onyx won in the U.S. and Nina at the Can. National Specialty and all breed show. I will post photos.


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## outwest

Looking forward to the pics!


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## CT Girl

Whitepoodles - thank you for your very informative post on judging coat quality. Swizzle is almost 8 months old so I guess I will have to wait and see about how his coat turns out. He has a lot of hair and it does not mat easily but I was expecting a harsher texture. He is my 1st poodle so I have a lot to learn. 

Willow is lovely. Very nice tail - I am picky about tails.


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## whitepoodles

*


CT Girl said:



Whitepoodles - thank you for your very informative post on judging coat quality. Swizzle is almost 8 months old so I guess I will have to wait and see about how his coat turns out. He has a lot of hair and it does not mat easily but I was expecting a harsher texture. He is my 1st poodle so I have a lot to learn. 

Willow is lovely. Very nice tail - I am picky about tails.

Click to expand...

*
Outwest: Thank you, much appreciated.


CTgirl: Coat texture can varry from puppy to puppy. I would not worry at this point in time about your 8 mos. old puppy's coat. They can change and do.

First of, a puppy's coat naturall is much softer than the adult coat. Your puppy has not started going through coat change yet, he will start though in about 1-1.5 months time and you have to start being very dilligent in seeing that it does not mat. 

What my handler does in order to maintain the coat free of mats during coat change which can start at 9 mos. of age and end at about 15 months and then it is a breeze (trust me)... you will have to bath and condition your odg's coat on a weekly basis. That means that in between baths you do not need to brush out your dog unless you find he is matting overnight during coat change.. Then you will have to gently and I mean gently take out the mats and never brush a coat dry, always mist it with a conditioner diluted with water, make sure that the conditioner does not have build up properties and is mild and basically a hydrating conditioner not oily or thick. Diluted with water and sprayed lightely on the coat while you line brush the dog out.

Once the coat changes you will be pleasantly surprised as in most cases the puppy coat is finished and the dog starts to acquire a harsher outer layer and the coat becomes profuse,

Now that is not to say that every dog acquires a harsh coat as an adult. there are some who never graduate from a chicken feathers coat type as puppies to a harsher denser coat as an adult but that is genetic and if one is to improve on thier coats, they must then seek dogs with a good quality coat to improve their coats with.

A softer coat has its advantages in that while it is growing it wont break as fast as the harsher denser type coat and the latter takes infinitely more time to blow dry but holds a beautiful scissor job and needs much less sparying in the ring prior to judging.

A lighter softer coat will grow much faster but will always require diligent care and the scissoring job will not hold as nicely as the thicker harsher type does.
The thinner lighter and softer coat will also not break as easily as the harsher/denser type but the handler will alway struggle to keep it in shape in the ring.. Also this type of coat blow dries much faster but after it dries it splits in the middle and each part falls to either left or right side of the dog's head and spring of rib.

If it is a pet, nothing to worry about and if it is a show dog, then the breeder must improve on their coats by breeding to a line which is known to produce profuse, harsh and thick coats.

Some handlers use Ile Of Dogs quite successfully and others have found that WHY BITCH (or something like that ) is a great shampoo/conditioner product. 

Anything that works for you is a good product.


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## CT Girl

Whitepoodles thank you for your post. Both Swizzle's parents are champions and there are a lot in his line so perhaps he just needs to grow into his adult coat. If not he is a pet so it is not a big deal. I guess I should order some Ile Of Dogs conditoner. So far I have just been combing him dry. He really does not need to be combed every day I just want him to get use to this kind of handling so he is good for the groomer. You mention brush the coat - should I start brushing instead of combing? I purchased a Les Pouch small silver brush but I always seem to end up combing him instead. I want to thank you again for your in depth explainations. I have a few poodle books but no one has explained things as well as you have.


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## whitepoodles

*


CT Girl said:



Whitepoodles thank you for your post. Both Swizzle's parents are champions and there are a lot in his line so perhaps he just needs to grow into his adult coat. If not he is a pet so it is not a big deal. I guess I should order some Ile Of Dogs conditoner. So far I have just been combing him dry. He really does not need to be combed every day I just want him to get use to this kind of handling so he is good for the groomer. You mention brush the coat - should I start brushing instead of combing? I purchased a Les Pouch small silver brush but I always seem to end up combing him instead. I want to thank you again for your in depth explainations. I have a few poodle books but no one has explained things as well as you have.

Click to expand...

*CTgirl:
Thanks it is a pleasure to help anyone who needs/wants advice and learn.

What you are doing is just fine.

One question though on which my answer below will depend on.

Did you purchase your pup with the intention to show it or just have it as a loving companion?

If you purchased the dog to become your companion but not a show dog you do not have to worry or try to manage his coat thin or thick. Just shave him down with a 3 and 3/4 blade fluff it up and have it smelling and looking great and enjoy outings with it.

If your purchased your pup for the purpose of showing and (potentially) breeding in future that is with your breeder's consent than the coat upkeep will be totally different than if it was just a pet.

So combing the show coat dry is not good and can damage it unless you spray it with a diluted conditioner plus water in a spray bottle, and line brush the dog spritzing that light conditioner/spray on each line of hair then brushing it with a brush or slicker.

Care should be taken that a SLICKER should never be used on the dog's top knot or neck hair as these are the main areas where coat breaks and is the hardest to grow out. also these areas do mat extensively especially neck and side coat when the dog goes through coat change,

If one is to use a slicker brush on the sensitive hair spots such as neck hair and top knot which are notorious for breaking and easily being damaged they will ruin the coat in those areas and never manage to grow it there.

Any other parts of the body, under the belly, arm pits, legs, rozettes, tail ears can be groomed with a slicker brusch BUT NOT harshly very very lightely and certainly not by pulling on the slicker once a mat is encountered. 

Take the little mat (or big one  and start to detangle it from the bottom to the top until it is all detangled, then you will lightly brush it out.. You would lose far less coat if you do this this way than yank at the mat with either a pin brush, comb or slicker brush

Lay the dog initially on its side and start from the bottom to top, meaning from the belly to the spinal cord with line brushing and spraying lightely with each line of coat you brush out. Then sit the dog and start doing the same from the back (near the tail set) and continue to the top knot until the dog is throroughly brushed out and having NO mats.. Then.. GENTLY comb out each area and NEVER tag on the coat if ou find a mat,, gently pull the coat apart until your fingers get to that mat and unmat it using the same procedure I have described above.

Then wrap the coat starting with the ears and then graduating to the top knot. In order for you to nourish the coat and prevent the ends from breaking and splitting, I use a FANTASTIC grooming product made by Vellus, NOT cheap but works like a charm and put the cream on the TIPS of the coat I wrap and band.. This keeps the ends nourished and prevents breakage.

I used to upkeep coats myself but since I was operated on my left hand (Trapezectomy) and my age 57 started to prevent me from successfully standing on my feet and having back pains as a result I opted to give my dogs to live with the handler and have coat upkeep in their home. 

I have two wonderful conscientious and top professional handlers to whom the dogs in their care are not merely meat on a hoof and they love my dogs and their clients dogs and give them a home away from home. 

My handlers Becky in the U.S and Allie in Canada upkeep my show coats and do a fantastic job at that. I cant thank these two wonderful ladies enough.

If you have any questions, please let me know. Here to help.


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