# Breeding age



## bigpoodleperson

I completely agree!! I feel that breeding a young dog is like having a teenager get pregnant. They are not physically or mentally ready for a litter.


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## Cdnjennga

Cbrand, I'm so happy you started this thread! I was actually considering starting one the other day on this exact topic. I have always thought 2 years old was the absolute earliest that a dog should be bred. You need to consider the mental and physical well being of both the bitch and the pups.

I started questioning myself when I looked around some "reputable" poodle breeders and noticed that they were breeding before the magic 2 year mark. So I'm happy to hear your thoughts on this, as they confirm what I have always understood to be best practice. That's certainly been the earliest age we would ever consider breeding a PWD, as they have many of the same health problems as Standard Poodles.


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## Cdnjennga

cbrand said:


> My foundation bitch, Sabrina, bloated two weeks ago. She gave us a scare, but she is fine. However, I have made the painful decision to spay her daughter, Izze. Bloat is genetic and I could not in good conscious breed Izze knowing that I might be passing the bloat problem down to another generation of dogs and owners. Now Sabrina was around 5.5 yrs old when Izze was born. Had I run out and bred Sabrina right when she was 2 and bred Izze right when she was 2, I would have three generations of dogs on the ground before I realized that I had a problem.


I'm really sorry to hear about this. But I'm happy to hear from a responsible breeder who recognizes that they have to do what's best for the breed and all future pup owners.


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## cbrand

I always say.... what's the hurry. There are other things to do with poodles than fill their uteruses. Breeders would be better off using the time to put performance titles on their breeding dogs.

But I know what the hurry is. Breeders want to turn a buck more quickly. Waiting 3-4 years means waiting for income.


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## Fluffyspoos

So two years is the minimum for a litter, but what about the other end of the page. What's too old for a bitch to produce a litter? Assuming she's healthy and has shown no genetic problems. For all the poo sizes, toy, mini, and standard.

We had a yorki in the salon a couple months back that accidently got pregnant at 12.. lol. She had had false pregnancies throughout her whole life, and I found it funny that she gave birth to two puppies after so many 'fake' babies, aka, her toys. She appeared to be fine, and was 14 years old when she came in. I KNOW that 12 is too old though..


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## Cdnjennga

cbrand said:


> I always say.... what's the hurry. There are other things to do with poodles than fill their uteruses. Breeders would be better off using the time to put performance titles on their breeding dogs.


Completely agreed! I love to see titles on both ends of the name. Sadly it's not as common as it could (or should) be.


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## cbrand

Fluffyspoos said:


> So two years is the minimum for a litter, but what about the other end of the page. What's too old for a bitch to produce a litter? Assuming she's healthy and has shown no genetic problems. For all the poo sizes, toy, mini, and standard.


I think that is dependent on each bitch. Sabrina was an easy natural whelper actually put on weight after each whelp. I think she could have been bred at age 6, 7 or even 8. 

I bred Gracy for the 1st time at age 6 and she had a pretty hard time. We knew that she wouldn't be able to do it again and we spayed her.

Bitches also lose fertility as they age. They will have smaller litters and more difficulty getting pregnant.


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## Fluffyspoos

Do dogs that have been bred in the past produce larger litters each time they're bred?


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## Cdnjennga

According to this link, "As a rough approximation, the human equivalent of a one-year-old dog is between about 10 and 15 years—a one-year-old dog or cat has generally reached its full growth and is sexually mature, although it might still be lanky and need to fill in a more mature musculature, similar to human teenagers. The second year is equivalent to about another 3 to 8 years in terms of physical and mental maturity, and each year thereafter is equivalent to only about 4 or 5 human years."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aging_in_dogs

So breeding a 1 year old dog (depending on breed/ size) is like breeding a 10 to 15 year old human, while breeding a 2 year old dog is like breeding a 13 to 23 year old, if I'm reading that right.


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## Purple Poodle

I think for a first litter the dog should be between 3 and 5 years old as like it was mentioned hips needs to be scored and eyes need to be clear and most signs of PRA show up between 4 & 6 years of age.

As for when to stop breeding I think no bitch should be bred after 8yo, for a dog 10yo.


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## Cdnjennga

The thing that really confuses me is why people would even want to breed younger than 2 years old. Looking at the litters produced by one breeder who regularly breeds Standard Poodles well under 2 years old, I'm seeing quite a few small litters (1 to 3 pups each) from a variety of different bitches. The average litter size for a SPoo is 7. Surely breeding at a young age is contributing to small litter sizes? So why not wait until the bitch is older and mature and get one good sized litter?


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## roxy25

I pretty much agree with cbrand. IMO when you are dealing with a breed that has a lot of health issues why would you want to breed early and risk your bloodline like that ?


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## redvelvet

I think some is greed...but there is another thing and a lot of the people, DO NOT want to talk about and WILL NOT prove me wrong...is reds
The color in most cases fades out by the age of 2.5 years. Now try to convince the puppy buyer this apricot is dark red !!!!


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## roxy25

redvelvet said:


> I think some is greed...but there is another thing and a lot of the people, DO NOT want to talk about and WILL NOT prove me wrong...is reds
> The color in most cases fades out by the age of 2.5 years. Now try to convince the puppy buyer this apricot is dark red !!!!


LOL Its true , I am still waiting to see a dark red that over 3 years old. Most breeders i seen ONLY post young pictures and never recent picture.

I also LMAO when I see some breeder posting pictures of how red their dog is but I can tell they altered the pictures or take pictures of dogs in shade or take picture when its the golden hour of the day. :rolffleyes:

I think its sad that some of these breeders do these things to people looking for reds.


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## redvelvet

I guess I can post pictures in three more months Lucy is almost 3.
I'm looking for BIG TROUBLE if I start or ask red breeders to help in a standardized color grading program......................
Whats that I hear.......nothing


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## redvelvet

perhaps this why the reds are so expensive....lots of leg work and self controll.....she faded out so we fix her? I wish


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## Purple Poodle

redvelvet said:


> perhaps this why the reds are so expensive....lots of leg work and self controll.....she faded out so we fix her? I wish


Reds are so expensive beacuse they are the "Fad" color right now. 99% of so called "Red" will fade.


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## roxy25

redvelvet said:


> I guess I can post pictures in three more months Lucy is almost 3.
> I'm looking for BIG TROUBLE if I start or ask red breeders to help in a standardized color grading program......................
> Whats that I hear.......nothing


LOL you are dead on ! If you did start to ask for a color grading system none of the red breeders would like you hahahahah


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## cbrand

What would be the purpose of a color grading system? Is a dark Red somehow more desirable than an Apricot? Is a dark Brown more desirable than a Cafe?


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## redvelvet

The gene pool is a fraction. so if your not doing your homework poof the color is apricot
if you are looking for a color that isn't that common and you are holding it
then it's a lot more rare ....should it cost more ....maybe not but the back yard breeders are not holding color....if I could not get but $500.00 for the my reds I don't think it would be very smart to spend what I'm willing to spend for my friends comfort.I'm not going into the hole for others to be able to breed the hell out of one of my puppy's. so no full rights and a break even price.


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## redvelvet

We, my wife and I started this for our self's. I wont live with out several poo's under foot. We are going to build a better RED poodle for our selves


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## bigredpoodle

cbrand said:


> What would be the purpose of a color grading system? Is a dark Red somehow more desirable than an Apricot? Is a dark Brown more desirable than a Cafe?


Yes I am afraid that they are more desirable... But you are comparing an apricot to a red there is no comparison .. A cafe to a brown no comparison.. 
If I were looking for either i would look to the parents and want one that is proven not to fade .. But then that is just me ... 
Why would I want afaded brown or a faded red ?


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## Purple Poodle

bigredpoodle said:


> Yes I am afraid that they are more desirable... But you are comparing an apricot to a red there is no comparison .. A cafe to a brown no comparison..
> If I were looking for either i would look to the parents and want one that is proven not to fade .. But then that is just me ...
> Why would I want afaded brown or a faded red ?


A faded Brown is a Cafe and faded "Red" is an Apricot  They are the same color (brown/cafe or "red"/apricot) just in different shades/intensities.


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## Olie

redvelvet said:


> We, my wife and I started this for our self's. I wont live with out several poo's under foot. We are going to build a better RED poodle for our selves


And how many spoos do you have?


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## roxy25

redvelvet said:


> We, my wife and I started this for our self's. I wont live with out several poo's under foot. We are going to build a better RED poodle for our selves


So you not brp Husband ?

I think I am confused what is your kennel name ?


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## Olie

roxy25 said:


> So you not brp Husband ?
> 
> I think I am confused what is your kennel name ?


Yes I am curious too.


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## Olie

I smell something.......


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## roxy25

Olie said:


> Yes I am curious too.


LOL Olie I am sorry I dont have time to look at everyone intro's So I am not sure who is who sometimes. I never saw a kennel namd with RV so I thought it was someones husband on here LOL 

Sorry if I am wrong


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## Olie

roxy25 said:


> LOL Olie I am sorry I dont have time to look at everyone intro's So I am not sure who is who sometimes. I never saw a kennel namd with RV so I thought it was someones husband on here LOL
> 
> Sorry if I am wrong


Oh no I have my own thoughts on something else. I though RV just had Lucy only which is why I asked what I did.


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## roxy25

Olie said:


> Oh no I have my own thoughts on something else. I though RV just had Lucy only which is why I asked what I did.


O ok I am was just referencing the wife comment lol


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## redvelvet

This is sounding a lot like a hen house...
shall WE all leave phone numbers?


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## plumcrazy

701-391-7586 

1314 N 18th Street
Bismarck, ND 58501


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

If we are only going to breed for dark red spoos, and never try and improve their quality, and risk having the occaisional apricot litter for the sake of improving the conformation of our puppies, we ought to just pack it in. If the only thing that matters to a breeder is colour, they need to be rethinking things. The qaulity of mostg of the red sppos is not up to snuff, and it is up to us to try and fix that without being so fixated on what is the easiest sell. 


I do not agree that a faded red is apricot. A faded red takes on rust tones and an apricot takes on yellow tones. A faded red is still a red. If you have a faded red and an apricot side by side, they do look resemble on another in colour. trillium had an apricot and his colour was not remotely like 
Holly's and she is a faded red. That being said, how many of us know what other breeders reds really look like anyway? Half the breeders dye their dogs, or use colour enhancing shampoos, or enhance their photos. 
My girl has the fading gene, obviously, and this was apparent when she was fourteen months old. I would still have bred her, and am glad I did because the puppies she produces do not fade like her and are deep, deep red. If I had waited until she was four, I still would have bred her and would still be glad I did because of what she produces-period.


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## bigredpoodle

So do other colors dye their dogs ? For the show ring from what I have heard they all dye their dogs what is the point that you are trying to make REALLY ? I have seen reds that have faded to brown paper bag color too ... Isnt this a breeding AGE thread ? I am confused...


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## bigredpoodle

HA HA HA I hope that doesnt backfire on you ! Brave girl !


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

redvelvet said:


> This is sounding a lot like a hen house...
> shall WE all leave phone numbers?





I am not accusing anyone of anything here, but do think it is ridiculous that people cannot be verified on this forum. There must be a way that the administrators can assure that people are indeed who they say they are. We have all watched one person in particular come on here under an assumed name, touting the other as the best breeder on earth. Most of us are aware that this party has been back on and banned under yet another assumed name more recently. So yes, this forum has become paranoid, and rightly so. 519-334-3916 if anyone wishes to know.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

bigredpoodle said:


> So do other colors dye their dogs ? For the show ring from what I have heard they all dye their dogs what is the point that you are trying to make REALLY ? I have seen reds that have faded to brown paper bag color too ... Isnt this a breeding AGE thread ? I am confused...


Pardon me for having an opinion. I mentioned my girls age in my post. Another post mentioned reds.Would I haved opted to not breed her
if I had waited till she was four and she had faded? NO!!!! THAT WAS MY POINT? IS THIS OKAY WITH YOU???????????????????????????????????


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

oooops...


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## plumcrazy

bigredpoodle said:


> HA HA HA I hope that doesnt backfire on you ! Brave girl !


How could it possibly backfire? I have nothing to hide and I don't believe I should be afraid of anyone on this forum. I love to talk about poodles so people can call me if they want to (that's my cell phone number btw) - I also welcome presents in the mail (or visitors!) and besides, my home address information is listed in the phonebook anyway so no worries!! Iyam who Iyam!!


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## bigredpoodle

you are a crack up and you know it .. I cant believe taht you did that .. Funny girl ...


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## roxy25

plumcrazy said:


> How could it possibly backfire? I have nothing to hide and I don't believe I should be afraid of anyone on this forum. I love to talk about poodles so people can call me if they want to (that's my cell phone number btw) - I also welcome presents in the mail (or visitors!) and besides, my home address information is listed in the phonebook anyway so no worries!! Iyam who Iyam!!


lmao i AM SERIOUS when I say you crack me up !

I am going to save your info if its ok with you ? I will send you something


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## plumcrazy

roxy25 said:


> lmao i AM SERIOUS when I say you crack me up !
> 
> I am going to save your info if its ok with you ? I will send you something


Wheeeeee! A present from Roxy!!! Make sure there are holes in the box so Enzo can breathe!! :lol: ound: You are more than welcome to keep my info, just call before you come so I can pick up all the toy guts from the disemboweled stuffies in the living room before you get there! HAAAAA!


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## Purple Poodle

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> I do not agree that a faded red is apricot. A faded red takes on rust tones and an apricot takes on yellow tones. A faded red is still a red. If you have a faded red and an apricot side by side, they do look resemble on another in colour. trillium had an apricot and his colour was not remotely like
> Holly's and she is a faded red.


Agree or don't agree I really don't care but genetically "Red" and Apricot Poodles are the SAME color. Just in different shades. 

lmao at Roxy, you would know huh? :lol:


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## redvelvet

roxy25 said:


> So you not brp Husband ?
> 
> I think I am confused what is your kennel name ?


I'm sorry I didn't believe being male or married or more than one dog would start such a clucking flurry of imaginations


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## Purple Poodle

redvelvet said:


> I'm sorry I didn't believe being male or married or more than one dog would start such a clucking flurry of imaginations


Watch it buddy or these cluckers will cluck you up! :sinister:

I'm sorry I couldn't resist!


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## KPoos

redvelvet said:


> I'm sorry I didn't believe being male or married or more than one dog would start such a clucking flurry of imaginations


If you call us HENS one more damn time I'm going to get really pissed. No one around here said anything about your gender so stop referring to ours in the negative, got me?


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## redvelvet

I dont think of my hens in a negitive way but ok.....sorry


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## redvelvet

you made me laugh purple
thank you


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## KPoos

redvelvet said:


> I dont think of my hens in a negitive way but ok.....sorry


Look maybe because you are a man you don't GET that calling women hens or saying that they are "clucking" is a bad or negative thing but I'm here to tell you not to say that to any other woman ever again. It's meant in a derogatory manner, the entire generalization of women talking in a group resembling a hen house is negative and you know it. Men say it because they want to insult women and that's it.


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## bigredpoodle

:rolffleyes:Wow i guess I am weird cause it did not bother me ! I kinda thought it was a funny way to put it:rolffleyes:
Purple cracked me up too !


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## redvelvet

KPoos said:


> Look maybe because you are a man you don't GET that calling women hens or saying that they are "clucking" is a bad or negative thing but I'm here to tell you not to say that to any other woman ever again. It's meant in a derogatory manner, the entire generalization of women talking in a group resembling a hen house is negative and you know it. *Men say it because* they want to insult women and that's it.


isn't that generalizing

shouldn't we get back onto topic
breeding age


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## roxy25

redvelvet said:


> This is sounding a lot like a hen house...
> shall WE all leave phone numbers?


You know what we had a few members on here who did not give kennel name and guess what ?

:wacko:


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## KPoos

redvelvet said:


> isn't that generalizing
> 
> shouldn't we get back onto topic
> breeding age


Are you a man? Did you say it? Get back to whatever you want just stop talking about the hens or I'm reporting it.


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## jak

Redvelvet -that was an insensitive thing to say

And quite frankly, I'm getting sick of the games you are playing BRP,
*SO STOP IT!*


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## jak

bigredpoodle said:


> :rolffleyes:Wow i guess I am weird cause it did not bother me ! I kinda thought it was a funny way to put it:rolffleyes:
> Purple cracked me up too !


Hmmmmm...

I wonder why you weren't bothered... such a hard question there.

IDK, maybe because he is your husband???

Correct me if I'm wrong,

but isn't Redvelvet's avatar the same as this dog on your website???










http://www.sherocstandardpoodles.com/images/Picture_0145.jpg


Your games are childish, and really quite pathetic


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## KPoos

What the heck?*sigh*:doh:


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## bigredpoodle

jak said:


> Redvelvet -that was an insensitive thing to say
> 
> And quite frankly, I'm getting sick of the games you are playing BRP,
> *SO STOP IT!*


I guess I am confused I did not realize I was playing games ... 
I took alot of this as light hearted and as funny ... Some folks have a twisted sense of humor,, 
Sorry If I offended you somehow ..


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## bigredpoodle

And so am I responsible somehow ? I am really confused here...Please splain ....


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## Cdnjennga

Wow, I didn't know where you were going with that Jak, but this thread just got interesting! No pulling the wool over your eyes.


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## jak

bigredpoodle said:


> I guess I am confused I did not realize I was playing games ...
> I took alot of this as light hearted and as funny ... Some folks have a twisted sense of humor,,
> Sorry If I offended you somehow ..


Look, I have not contributed in any of these 'heated' threads,
I don't have 'alliances' with any one on here
And as an outsider it is extremely clear over the last couple of months the little games you play when you post subtle things just to niggle at certain people for whatever *twisted* reasons you have -humour?

I think it is quite clear the games you are playing, when your husband comes on with a very small introduction, and then launches straight into heated threads with you, and then no one actually knows he is your husband??

I have nothing to hide on here, why do you??


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## wishpoo

WOW >>> WOW>>> WOWWWWW !!!!!!!!

*JAK* - YOU AAAAAARRRREEE *THE *MAN !!!!! 

:hail:

Always knew it - just today you are my super-hero !!!! LOL


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## roxy25

bigredpoodle said:


> And so am I responsible somehow ? I am really confused here...Please splain ....


So you are going to tell this forum that is not your dog now ? WOW LOL


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## bigredpoodle

I denied nothing ! I am not responsible for what he says that is my confusion You guys really are crazy if you think I am .. He is his own person ..


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## bigredpoodle

jak said:


> Look, I have not contributed in any of these 'heated' threads,
> I don't have 'alliances' with any one on here
> And as an outsider it is extremely clear over the last couple of months the little games you play when you post subtle things just to niggle at certain people for whatever *twisted* reasons you have -humour?
> 
> I think it is quite clear the games you are playing, when your husband comes on with a very small introduction, and then launches straight into heated threads with you, and then no one actually knows he is your husband??
> 
> I have nothing to hide on here, why do you??


So in your opinion he should have introduced himself as my husband right ? Why ?


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## KPoos

Wow, Jak you are a good detective. Why post the dog in the avatar if you aren't going to just come forward and say who you are? Wonder how many husbands have accounts here so that a person can post under two separate names? That might explain Fur Elite's split personality! That would at least make more sense than her posting to herself as poodlepal.


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## jak

bigredpoodle said:


> I denied nothing ! I am not responsible for what he says that is my confusion You guys really are crazy if you think I am .. He is his own person ..


You've completely missed the point...


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## KPoos

bigredpoodle said:


> So in your opinion he should have introduced himself as my husband right ? Why ?


Um well, why not? Isn't it lying by omission?


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## Cdnjennga

jak said:


> Look, I have not contributed in any of these 'heated' threads,
> I don't have 'alliances' with any one on here
> And as an outsider it is extremely clear over the last couple of months the little games you play when you post subtle things just to niggle at certain people for whatever *twisted* reasons you have -humour?
> 
> I think it is quite clear the games you are playing, when your husband comes on with a very small introduction, and then launches straight into heated threads with you, and then no one actually knows he is your husband??
> 
> I have nothing to hide on here, why do you??


I could not agree more Jak, you said that so well! BRP, you contribute a lot to this board, but you seem to play a lot of games while doing so. You getting at Arreau all the time is tired, and your false naivete (which you did again just now!) is frankly boring. Say what you mean and stop pretending you have no idea what's going on!

And the reason he should have identified himself is because that fostering thread was SO OBVIOUSLY targeted at Arreau. It's so juvenile and depressing that two adults are behaving like this.


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## jak

bigredpoodle said:


> I denied nothing ! I am not responsible for what he says that is my confusion You guys really are crazy if you think I am .. He is his own person ..


You've completely missed the point...


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## bigredpoodle

GEEEEEEZZ the dog was right on the site and the site is tied to my avatar that is not hiding guys sorry .. But that is being craxy Thisk what you want but I have nothin gto do with what he says.. Sorry !!!!! I am not his boss... Let it go picl on him ... He is in big trouble


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## bigredpoodle

Whatever ..


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## jak

bigredpoodle said:


> So in your opinion he should have introduced himself as my husband right ? Why ?


:doh::doh::doh::doh:

I don't know what to say...

really, come on!!!!

Does that post really even deserve an answer!?!??!?!?!?


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## jak

bigredpoodle said:


> Whatever ..


Just be a mature adult, it's really not that hard.

There is no point playing games any longer,
you've made some good contributions to this forum, but like cdnjennga said, the games are pathetic

all you have to do, is just be a helpful and nice contributor, it can't be that hard if we already have a lot of people doing it.

otherwise, I can't see the point of you being here......


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## KPoos

Might be to sell puppies and discredit other red breeders with an agenda to promote their friends and themselves to sell more puppies.


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## bigredpoodle

Good one Kpoos that is not the reason they are all sold remember...


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## Olie

Let's talk about picking on someone OK when I asked earlier in this thread about how many dogs Red Velvet had because he mentiond 1 at the intro and mentioned here that he had several spoos under foot......I immediatly got a PM asking me what my problem was and why I am always picking on BRP, and I DO NOT, I defended Cherrie once because things were getting ugly (and I was reminded of that) as well as barking up the wrong tree HA! I am here to say I have no click or was the term Arreau Pack? Anyway, this clearly shows that you were trying to hide the husband - which by all means is welcome, just be honest about it!!! Trickery...........

And purple poodle "cluck you up" is for the books, LMAO! 

Jak - I always liked you, you are such a rspectable man and I appreciate your straight forwardness and it was a well deserved recognition IMO


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## roxy25

I totally agree with Jak .

This is becoming ridiculous that I have to ban people because they can't be civil.


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## KPoos

Did a board member buy one? What about future litters? I personally don't care but other people might since the admin has said you aren't to advertise litters here.


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## bigredpoodle

Thanks redvelvet I guess this was coming all along you just forsced the issue.. Isnt this what happened to bijou as well everyone packed up thenm and then they were kicked off? Well kick me off now cause I am so done ...


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## roxy25

Olie said:


> Jak - I always liked you, you are such a rspectable man and I appreciate your straight forwardness and it was a well deserved recognition IMO


Bravo Olie I agree 

BRP we are sick of the lies , your husbands post is here So he lives in CA ? and your in Utah ?:rolffleyes::wacko:

http://www.poodleforum.com/showthread.php?t=5178


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## bigredpoodle

roxy25 said:


> I totally agree with Jak .
> 
> This is becoming ridiculous that I have to ban people because they can't be civil.


So remove me K?


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## bigredpoodle

Im waiting


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## Olie

OMG can we vote YES DO IT!!


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## bigredpoodle

Please !


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## jak

bigredpoodle said:


> Thanks redvelvet I guess this was coming all along you just forsced the issue.. Isnt this what happened to bijou as well everyone packed up thenm and then they were kicked off? Well kick me off now cause I am so done ...


We are not packing up against you!
All I am trying to say is be a mature adult and face up to what you have done!

Stop pretending like we are all in the wrong here! I am not saying you are completely in the wrong, but seriously, face up!

Stop feeling sorry for yourself, and just be an honest person


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## Cdnjennga

Wow... This is ridiculous and frankly embarassing for you BRP. If I were you I would remove myself before tarnishing my kennel name any further. It's a shame this has descended into such insanity.


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## bigredpoodle

roxy25 said:


> Bravo Olie I agree
> 
> BRP we are sick of the lies , your husbands post is here So he lives in CA ? and your in Utah ?:rolffleyes::wacko:
> 
> http://www.poodleforum.com/showthread.php?t=5178


See other post ..


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## bigredpoodle

Cdnjennga said:


> Wow... This is ridiculous and frankly embarassing for you BRP. If I were you I would remove myself before tarnishing my kennel name any further. It's a shame this has descended into such insanity.


I agree I cannot believe that this is happening I have asked to be removed..


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## Purple Poodle

I'm glad I can ad some humor to this thread, I quite amused myself lol

I would just like to say this is a really sad display of immaturity by bigredpoodle, to see someone who breeds the breed that we all love and adore act like a child. It saddens me.


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## bigredpoodle

I AM NOT REDVELVET !!! That is my husband that is in big trouble ..


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## jak

bigredpoodle said:


> I agree I cannot believe that this is happening I have asked to be removed..


Come on!!!!

I do not want to see you removed!!

this isn't a witch hunt! 


grrrgghhh!!!


just face up and stop being childish, *please!!*


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## Cdnjennga

bigredpoodle said:


> I agree I cannot believe that this is happening I have asked to be removed..


It's called closing the browser and doing it yourself. And I didn't mean you were being embarassed. I meant you are embarassing yourself and your kennel!

I've enjoyed your contribution to this forum for the most part. But this deceptive behaviour by your husband (seemingly condoned by you) is really a shame.


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## bigredpoodle

Howa in the he.. am I being childish ..


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## Cdnjennga

bigredpoodle said:


> Howa in the he.. am I being childish ..


Yikes... Seriously, step away from the computer!


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## bigredpoodle

Seriously how am I responsible for him ..


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## jak

bigredpoodle said:


> Howa in the he.. am I being childish ..


ok - you have had plenty of chances

please just go

you have clearly just demonstrated to the entire world your lack of maturity

.......................


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## redvelvet

My wife is in town I'm at home and not having any one tell me what to say


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## redvelvet

I have a opinion and so does everyone else


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## KPoos

I'm not sure if you realize this or not but this forum is public so anyone can read it even without signing up and signing in so unfortunately for you, everyone will know what's gone down here. If you want to leave on that note, that's up to you but I think you might want to at least just admit to what's gone on here and apologize for being deceitful.


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## bigredpoodle

I agree !


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## jak

redvelvet said:


> My wife is in town I'm at home and not having any one tell me what to say


ok, whatever


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

dear sweet Jack...you are officially my hero!!! i have been picked at, every word I say is nit picked, by this sad, sad woman!!! I knew the Redvelvet was connected because it seems people just pop in here in support of one another like Tinypoodles (aka Bijou) when things might be getting a tad heated for BRP. And out of the blue Redvelvet has appeared. It never entered my mind it could be her husband but it all makes sense now. 

Why ban her Roxy??? She'll be back under another name shortly.


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## redvelvet

So jak am I not allowed to say anything?
I am so sorry if you or anyone else can not LET a spouse voice an opinion that is DIFFERENT. My intent was not to be treated as anyone than myself, not part of anyone or kennel


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## jak

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> dear sweet Jack...you are officially my hero!!! i have been picked at, every word I say is nit picked, by this sad, sad woman!!! i knew the Redvelvet was connected because it seems people just pop in here in support of one another like Tinypoodles (aka Bijou) when things might be getting a tad heated for BRP. And out of the blue Redvelvet has appeared. It never entered my mind it could be her husband but it all makes sense now.
> 
> Why ban her Roxy??? She'll be back under another name shortly.


I do truly feel sorry for you.

From everything I have read, you have always been mature, and have held your integrity. I just wish this nit picking would stop.

You sound like a really nice person Arreau, and I commend you for what you've done 

I don't know what this has all been about, jealousy?


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## redvelvet

arreau your wrong again this Rocky


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## jak

redvelvet said:


> So jak am I not allowed to say anything?
> I am so sorry if you or anyone else can not LET a spouse voice an opinion that is DIFFERENT. My intent was not to be treated as anyone than myself, not part of anyone or kennel


The whole point of all of my posts is so that *you will say something!*

you and your wife are breeding partners!!!

you are meant to be breeding together?

You can hold your own opinions, that's the point!

but so far, I haven't actually seen any opinions, so to speak,
rather, just making snide, and pathetic comments and jibes to people that you've only known for a week!!!


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## jak

jak said:


> you and your wife are breeding partners!!!
> 
> you are meant to be breeding together?




ooopps -lmao

that totally came out wrong


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## Cdnjennga

jak said:


> ooopps -lmao
> 
> that totally came out wrong


Haha, Jak! TOO FUNNY!!!


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## Olie

jak said:


> ooopps -lmao
> 
> that totally came out wrong


lmao!!!


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## Olie

Cdnjennga said:


> Haha, Jak! TOO FUNNY!!!


What was really funny was step away from the computer, that was another witty comment, that I am sure you meant it was funny. At least there is always humer.......


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## roxy25

RV you are allowed to say anything you want but it is CLEAR that you intension was to deceive us from the start.

My first post was I thought you where BRP husband? and she says this forum is too paraniod. :rolffleyes: as if it was not true you are her husband


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## redvelvet

why do I as a person want my opinion to be slanted by anything but what I say?
I will never understand why I 'am being accused of being decieving I do not want to sell a poodle in this forum I do not take out ad's Iwill improve these friends I live with.
AND I HAVE NOT LIED


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## jak

redvelvet said:


> why do I as a person want my opinion to be slanted by anything but what I say?
> I will never understand why I 'am being accused of being decieving I do not want to sell a poodle in this forum I do not take out ad's *Iwill improve these friends I live with.*
> AND I HAVE NOT LIED


Exactly, you admit to being a breeder.
Seriously, why come on here, not tell anyone who you actually are, in relation to BRP

deliberately stir up trouble

and then you go on to say that you want to be independent of BRP???

First off, 

why do you go into the same heated threads and agree with everthing she says??

why say you're in a fake location?

why use an avatar linked to BRP?

why, after only being here a week or so, start making jibes at people you hardly know???

Ah!!

maybe because you are BRP's husband, breeding partner (lol), so you actually share the same goals and motives.


Arreau is a lovely person, from how she has composed herself on here, and not *stooped so incredibly low* to deliberately be a horrible person and play little games, it just shows how she is mature and you are not.

We all know that BRP has a stick with Arreau

GET OVER IT!

*I'm sorry, but it is clear you are deliberately playing games with us, and being deceitful, all to make jibes at Arreau!*

Seriously, what kind of people are you?


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

redvelvet said:


> arreau your wrong again this Rocky


yes Rocky..I did not know if was you, but knew you were connected. Were you going to join your wife in the Arreau bash fest??? Why not, all of your other friends and acquaintances have. I am a big girl, and the opinions you and your wife have of me don't matter to me one bit. I was hoping when Sheryl came on here that we could help educate people about red Spoos, but as soon as we disagreed about her opinion of Bijou Poodles, I have been fair game. I have tried so hard to bite my tongue. I have never told anyone on here that Rojo's COI is through the roof, I have never dissed you guys for breeding young, untested dogs when your dear wife harps and carps about testing, testing, testing, and posting the results on OFA. Now that is hard to do when you are breeding a ten and a half month old male (who was pre lim'd at ten months...accidental breeding?? REALLY?) or again at thirteen and a half months old (same age as the dam of the litter) then again at 18 1/2 months, which was a back to back breeding for Sadie, then again at 27 months of age when the testing for both parents could not have been back ahead of the breeding according to PHR and your own web site. So you know, this is why your opinion of me does not matter. And thank you both for finally giving me a reason to get this crap off my chest. I have known all of this and kept my mouth shut, hoping one day we might mend fences and just agree to disagree on Bijou, but it is not my desire to ever sort things out with you people because I do not approve of your ethics, I am disgusted with the way you treat people, and have gotten to know some of the breeders your wife used to talk about, and I happen to like them.Is there another red breeder out there that you DO like? Is there another human being that makwes you happy? I feel really sorry for you people!


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