# Supplementing kibble with raw... questions?



## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Ok, I REALLY want to feed Nova raw (I already feed my cat raw, so pretty much know the drill) but I don't have the freezer space to go all the way raw right now. I am looking for a floor freezer, but don't really have the money for one just yet. 

BUT I want to give her at least some fresh, raw food. My questions: 

1. What sort of RMB's do you recommend for such a large spoo girl (she's 70lbs)? I am used to raw feeding a 7lb cat, so I'm not really sure what to buy. 
2. How often should I give RMB's? I am thinking 3-4 times a week, is this too much or not often enough? 
3. She gets kibble twice a day (morning and night). When could I feed her a RMB without worrying about it being unsafe? 
4. Any suggestions for adding fresh food to her diet other than RMB's? I already add a raw egg to her kibble a few times a week. I am thinking about also adding some fat free yogurt and cottage cheese a few times a week. Any other meats that would be good to add occasionally without worrying about un-balancing her diet? 

Thanks in advance!


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Chicken quarters
Chicken breast - any chicken really
Turkey drum stick/wing
Pig feet (more of a bone meal)
Country style pork ribs
Pork shank
Any beef - avoid ribs

I would supplement one of the meals for the RMB versus feeding kibble and raw. Kibble in the AM/RMB meal in the PM. Just my opinion, some do it and it can work, with my breeds it didn't. For me personally I worry as kibble swells...

Any meats are fine to add but because you are supplementing you may want to take it slow and see how they do. Chicken/poultry and pork are good to start with. 

Try craigslist or local adds for the freezers. I watched for sales at lowes to get mine.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Yeah, I don't plan on feeding kibble and raw together, I just want to add a bit of raw at some point throughout the day and was wondering what opinions were for the best way to do that. I don't want to mix them because kibble takes so much longer to digest. But I also don't want to mess up nutrient levels since I won't be feeding actual correctly portioned raw at this point, so I don't want to take away too much kibble and add too much raw. 

I was also curious as to whether or not pork would be an ok thing to add in, you say feet are ok but what about bone-in pork tails? I was looking for turkey necks at the grocery store today and didn't have any luck but they had pigs feet and tails.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Mexican grocery stores have all those things plus chicken feet, beef tripe, tongue and all the organ meats for very little money. Look for a Mexican grocery store (do you have them in Georgia? Probably not, huh.)


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Thanks Outwest. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a Mexican grocery here... there is an Asian market I believe. I need to spend the day checking out places like this to try and find some things that I haven't had luck with in regular grocery stores.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Everything Olie said. 

Your best bet is to feed kibble in the AM and raw in the PM (or vice versa). You can try adding in a raw snack in the middle of the day, but you'll have to remember to cut down the other meals and you'll have a smaller amount of time in between kibble and raw, which may or may not be an issue for your dogs.

Also, I wouldn't waste your money on tripe from a grocery store - unless you are just looking for a good chewy item. It has been scalded or bleached and contains little to no nutritional value for dogs. Green tripe is the only kind of tripe you'd want to feed - and it cannot legally be sold anywhere that food for human consumption is sold.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Thanks, that is what I was worried about with trying to add it in the middle of the day was the amount of time that would be between kibble and raw. Right now I will only be able to do the raw a few days a week, probably three or so, because I just don't have the freezer space for it. So on days she doesn't get raw, do you recommend just doing her regular kibble meal in the evening? On days she does get raw, should I give her more kibble in the morning, or should I try and exchange an entire kibble meal for raw? I'm not really sure how much raw I should give to make up a whole meal. Would I have to worry about this much kibble upsetting her nutrient balance, since I will not be "balancing" this raw yet? (again, not enough freezer space to store all the parts; I share a teeny tiny freezer with a roommate and she gets angry when I use up the freezer space with organs for my cat)


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I think the general rule of thumb is that anytime you supplement an already "balanced" diet by more than (25-30% - don't quote me here), you run the risk of throwing off the balance. If you are under that percent with your supplementation, you should be fine.

If you were to, say, feed 50% raw, 50% kibble, I _think_, but am not positive, that you would need to make sure the raw and the kibble component were both balanced. Kinda tricky if you are doing homemade raw + kibble, easy if you are doing pre-made raw + kibble.

If you always separate a kibble meal from a raw meal (AM and PM) you _should_ be fine. You'll know, though, whether or not you are fine by your dog's digestive reaction.

On days your dog DOES get raw, I would give a normal kibble meal for breakfast, and supplement the entire kibble dinner meal for raw. However, if you are only giving a tiny amount for that raw dinner, you might want to make her kibble meal bigger. Me? I'd give a large enough raw dinner to just make that her whole dinner.

On days your dog does NOT get raw, I would just feed kibble as usual. 

Again, you'll know whether or not it is working for you!  So far, this has worked for Tiger.

Right now, I feed Henry and Millie homemade raw 100%. However, Tiger eats a mix of pre-made raw, kibble and homemade raw. I probably will get him down to only a meal or two a week of kibble, with the rest of his diet being a balanced, homemade raw diet. (I will be keeping a kibble meal each week because he might need to eat kibble when he goes away with the handler to show.)

Anyway, the past few days, I have given Tiger:

For breakfast: 1 cup Acana *OR* 1/2 cup Acana, 4 Primal Medallions
For dinner: 1 chicken back *OR* a drumstick, *OR* a pre-made raw patty. Eventually, I'll add some boneless.

Once I run out of the pre-made stuff, I'll probably start switching him to a homemade prey model diet and just give him kibble once or twice weekly. I can't wait until I do this because it is confusing feeding Tiger this combination of items when Henry and Millie are so simple with their prey model raw diet.

ETA: Do you feed once or twice daily? I assumed you feed twice daily, but if you feed once daily, that will be easy peasy. Just feed either kibble or raw for that one meal.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Thank you! I was thinking it was around 25 % too, but wasn't sure. I can't wait for the day that I can go all raw, but Nova is such a big girl that she will require a LOT of meat. I'm moving out of this apartment next month and into my own house (excited!) and hope to get a freezer then just for Nova. That will make things so much easier. But until then I do want to at least give her some fresh meat, as I would hate to eat processed food all the time. Glad to know someone else is doing something similar and it is working out well! 

PS: Tiger is so pretty! I have been following his photo thread and he is such a handsome guy!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Thanks!! 

I was going to go against my "values" and feed him kibble until he was done showing, to keep things simple, but the colossal kibble poop, doggie breath and the beginnings of tartar on his molars is too much for me to deal with when I know the _simple_ solution!


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

outwest said:


> Mexican grocery stores have all those things plus chicken feet, beef tripe, tongue and all the organ meats for very little money. Look for a Mexican grocery store (do you have them in Georgia? Probably not, huh.)


Outwest - in the south they sell a lot of pig parts right beside the more common meat items. Piggly Wiggly  is a great store in the south to get a variety for reasonable prices for the dogs. I only discoverd this about 6 months ago. (was never a pig fan) 

Here we have minimal asian and mexian stores, they are a rare find so they tend to be $$$.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Olie said:


> Outwest - in the south they sell a lot of pig parts right beside the more common meat items. Piggly Wiggly  is a great store in the south to get a variety for reasonable prices for the dogs. I only discoverd this about 6 months ago. (was never a pig fan)
> 
> Here we have minimal asian and mexian stores, they are a rare find so they tend to be $$$.


We actually have a Pig in Athens, but I don't see many of them around any more. My home town has one as well. I hadn't even thought to check them out, but I definitely should. I probably haven't been because it is on the opposite side of town from me, but the house I am moving into is very near the Piggly Wiggly so we may be shopping there more often!


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

ChocolateMillie said:


> Thanks!!
> 
> I was going to go against my "values" and feed him kibble until he was done showing, to keep things simple, but the colossal kibble poop, doggie breath and the beginnings of tartar on his molars is too much for me to deal with when I know the _simple_ solution!


Nova came to me eating Iams... talk about colossal poops! The Taste of the Wild has helped that some. But she does have rank dog breath. Her previous owners sent her with toothpaste and a toothbrush (among other things of course) so I think they must have brushed her teeth often, since she has minimal tartar and was eating Iams. But I am excited to start raw. It has done amazing things for my cat. Makes me less allergic to him and I swear he doesn't hardly shed at all on raw.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

*Fist try = success!*

So I decided to give Nova some raw chicken tonight and just see what she would do with it. She was hesitant at first, as if she didn't know what to do with it. She licked it and sniffed it (and the cat tried to steal it) but she finally got up the courage to try and eat it. It went well, and she at it all! I still am not sure how much to give her to make up an entire kibble meal, but we will figure it out as we go.


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