# fromm kibble and dental issues/tear stains???



## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

My vet prescribed proviable forte probiotic - not for stomach issues, but because other people who used it for digestive issues had the added benefit of tears stains going away. My little guy had awful stains, and after about of month of taking it, they disappeared. A benefit is that my fussy eater also started eating better.

I then realized that he DID have several stomach issues since bringing him home:
-Giardia
-he ate the yellow long flowers from oak trees and was sick for 24 hours after eating one, I think he ingested about 3 before I put it together he was always sick after eating one
- he was neutered and got antibiotics

So his little tummy must have also been off


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## Pineapplepoodle (Sep 28, 2017)

Thanks, I’ll look into it! Does he also eat kibble? The worker at the pet food supply store was asking me what I feed mine, and I was wondering why and they said kibble could cause the stains (all the grains I think). Does he eat the probiotic everyday? I wonder if it’s why they sell goats milk at pet food stores lately..I really should have become a vet, I wish I had all these answers to these questions that keep me up at night lol.


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## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

He eats freeze dried raw with a bit of chicken thigh/breast mixed in. The freeze dried gets a bit mushy if we put too much liquid in it, so we leave it on the drier side. I do give him the Proviable every day. I open the capsule and mix it with his food. My vet said I could drop it to a few times a week, but honestly, his stains were so awful, and he was such a horrible eater, I give him one every day anyway. There really is no harm, except to my wallet, in doing so.

Goats milk is sold because they like the taste AND it provides probiotics. My little guy doesn't like it. I haven't a clue why any pet food store would say kibble causes tear stains. From the research I've done, it seems to be environmental and/or tummy issue related, or allergies to an ingredient.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

There is no dog food in the world that won’t cause tartar. Unless you feed frozen raw. Also, having a dental procedure every year is way too much. There are risks associated with the anesthetic they use, so you want to have it done as little as possible.

The only way to avoid it is brushing their teeth. I do it 3-4 times a week to both my toys and it works great.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I agree with Dechi toy poodles have such small mouths and their teeth are so close together gak tends to get stuck in their teeth.
I try to brush daily using an enzyme tooth paste, you could try Petzlife gel it does wonders.
I also found teeny tooth brushes because even a finger cots is too big for my Lenny
AutoWT Dog Toothbrush, 4 Packs Silicone Pro Double-Sided Soft Comfort Gentle Dental Brushes Set Kit with 5.7 inches Curved Long Handle for Puppy Small https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PRBCH9T/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apap_rGJHLC3ikhRO5


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## Pineapplepoodle (Sep 28, 2017)

mary2e said:


> He eats freeze dried raw with a bit of chicken thigh/breast mixed in. The freeze dried gets a bit mushy if we put too much liquid in it, so we leave it on the drier side. I do give him the Proviable every day. I open the capsule and mix it with his food. My vet said I could drop it to a few times a week, but honestly, his stains were so awful, and he was such a horrible eater, I give him one every day anyway. There really is no harm, except to my wallet, in doing so.
> 
> Goats milk is sold because they like the taste AND it provides probiotics. My little guy doesn't like it. I haven't a clue why any pet food store would say kibble causes tear stains. From the research I've done, it seems to be environmental and/or tummy issue related, or allergies to an ingredient.





Dechi said:


> There is no dog food in the world that won’t cause tartar. Unless you feed frozen raw. Also, having a dental procedure every year is way too much. There are risks associated with the anesthetic they use, so you want to have it done as little as possible.
> 
> The only way to avoid it is brushing their teeth. I do it 3-4 times a week to both my toys and it works great.


I’m going to try that toothpaste out! It’s the only single thing I haven’t tried (I’m currently using the Tropiclean gel and/or Petrodex chicken flavored toothpaste). They are so tiny, I feel like half the time I’m causing more harm with the tiny toothbrush or finger brush, it’s really a process trying to get them to cooperate, lol.


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## Pineapplepoodle (Sep 28, 2017)

twyla said:


> I agree with Dechi toy poodles have such small mouths and their teeth are so close together gak tends to get stuck in their teeth.
> I try to brush daily using an enzyme tooth paste, you could try Petzlife gel it does wonders.
> I also found teeny tooth brushes because even a finger cots is too big for my Lenny
> AutoWT Dog Toothbrush, 4 Packs Silicone Pro Double-Sided Soft Comfort Gentle Dental Brushes Set Kit with 5.7 inches Curved Long Handle for Puppy Small https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PRBCH9T/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apap_rGJHLC3ikhRO5


I’m going to try that toothpaste out! It’s the only single thing I haven’t tried (I’m currently using the Tropiclean gel and/or Petrodex chicken flavored toothpaste). They are so tiny, I feel like half the time I’m causing more harm with the tiny toothbrush or finger brush, it’s really a process trying to get them to cooperate, lol.


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## Pineapplepoodle (Sep 28, 2017)

Pineapplepoodle said:


> I’m going to try that toothpaste out! It’s the only single thing I haven’t tried (I’m currently using the Tropiclean gel and/or Petrodex chicken flavored toothpaste). They are so tiny, I feel like half the time I’m causing more harm with the tiny toothbrush or finger brush, it’s really a process trying to get them to cooperate, lol.





Pineapplepoodle said:


> I’m going to try that toothpaste out! It’s the only single thing I haven’t tried (I’m currently using the Tropiclean gel and/or Petrodex chicken flavored toothpaste). They are so tiny, I feel like half the time I’m causing more harm with the tiny toothbrush or finger brush, it’s really a process trying to get them to cooperate, lol.


oops I think I double replied, I meant to write that we used to eat the Stella & Chewy’s freeze-dried duck patties and they were working fine, they loved them but then the vet was wary of the freeze-dried foods because these two are so tiny (and so fragile), so I went down the kibble rabbit hole and finally chose Fromm kibble because that’s the only shape that’s small enough to fit in their mouth/s


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Pineapplepoodle said:


> I’m going to try that toothpaste out! It’s the only single thing I haven’t tried (I’m currently using the Tropiclean gel and/or Petrodex chicken flavored toothpaste). They are so tiny, I feel like half the time I’m causing more harm with the tiny toothbrush or finger brush, it’s really a process trying to get them to cooperate, lol.


You can’t do harm, really. Mine are 6 pounds and they’re fine. One was an adult when I started and the one was a little younger but I started doing it consistently when she was an adult too.

Merlin tolerates it. But Beckie.... As soon as I am done with Merlin, she pushes him off my lap because she wants her turn, lol ! I use a toothpaste they like, they lick it while I’m brushing. And when done brushing, I put a dab of some dental liquid that’s supposed to fight tartar (it doesn’t) on their teeth with my finger and they just love it ! When we’re done, they are happy and play a little bit together before going outside for the last time before bed. Brushing their teeth is a fun activity for them. Try to have a fun routine too !

The brushing itself should take about 30 seconds per dog.


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## rp17 (Jun 6, 2018)

Pineapplepoodle said:


> I’m going to try that toothpaste out! It’s the only single thing I haven’t tried (I’m currently using the Tropiclean gel and/or Petrodex chicken flavored toothpaste). They are so tiny, I feel like half the time I’m causing more harm with the tiny toothbrush or finger brush, it’s really a process trying to get them to cooperate, lol.


Getting them to cooperate is definitely a challenge! Mine is a mini, not toy, but his back teeth had gotten pretty bad with tartar. I was trying to brush a few times a week but he definitely made it challenging for me, and there were a few periods of time where I had really slacked off. The vet pointed out his tartar build-up at his one year check-up, somewhat surprised his back teeth already had so much at only a year old. Can't say this was the cause, but since you asked, he was eating Fromm (puppy gold, then small breed gold) at the time. That's when I decided to start getting serious about regular brushing as I was hoping to avoid a dental.

I'm using the C.E.T. Enzymatic Toothpaste (poultry flavor), and while our boy is a big fan of the taste, he hates the actual process. I've gotten pretty good at brushing one side of his mouth, figuring out how to cradle his head in one hand using my thumb to hold his lip out of the way, while brushing with the other hand, but for some reason I can't master it in reverse on the other side, meaning he's constantly pulling away from me and making it difficult to brush that one side. On the side where I've been able to get pretty good about the brushing, I have seen a massive reduction in tartar! I actually thought his tooth was broken at one point, but then realized it was just a huge piece of tartar/calculus starting to separate from the tooth. I was able to scratch off a big piece of it starting at that loose spot and they've only gotten better since. I'm still working on the other side...that one's still pretty bad since I haven't been able to get a good brushing technique down. 

To help him cooperate with the brushing more, I brush every other day and then give him a dental chew afterwards. He only ever gets the chew after a brushing...never anytime else. I started this to hopefully get him more excited about brushing so he would associate it with a special treat. He follows me upstairs and into the bathroom super excited, then as soon as he sees the toothbrush he kind of cowers down showing he's not happy. His tail is down for the entire process, and as soon as I use my excited voice to say "all done!" his tail pops back up and starts wagging then he stares at the cabinet where I keep the treats. It's become a pretty good routine for us.

Also, since you brought up Royal Canin, I will add that we did switch to Royal Canin Poodle over a year ago. The reason we switched was because of the whole DCM thing and we wanted to move to a brand that met the WSAVA guidelines for choosing a dog food. We actually really like the Royal Canin, it did such a great job of firming up his previously soft stools.


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## Michigan Gal (Jun 4, 2019)

My border collie died recently at age 16. He never needed his teeth cleaned. Both my vets said it was because of the bones. He was on a raw diet of mostly chicken legs. If you don't want to feed raw, give your dog a bone to chew on a couple of times a week. For a toy poodle I'd try chicken wing tips.


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## TERIN (Mar 27, 2019)

Pineapplepoodle said:


> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone here their (toy) poodle Fromm kibble (salmon) and noticed any dental issues? Both of my toy poodles are eating this kibble (with the addition of steamed veggies/occasionally a little warm chicken broth/bit of boiled chicken which makes zero sense combined with salmon but they love it).
> 
> ...


Fromm has been found very low in iron, maybe that affects tear staining,

My sister has a white Toy poodle who had bad tear stains, she put her dog on Royal Canin for poodles & RC digestive care mini food 
after 1 month her little dog had no tear stain left
My Sister is so happy with the food change over, 
We are both Royal Canin converts


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## Pineapplepoodle (Sep 28, 2017)

Sorry I havent been here in a while to respond. Thanks for all the info...I'm looking at toothpastes right now, even though I have the petrodex one. It's just so difficult to brush, I too have one that will let me brush one side/not touch the other (because I think the teeth are loose on that side). It's intersting that so many people love Royal Canin, but some stores don't sell it, but meanwhile vets rave about..and then depending on who you asks, they either love it (almost any poodle owner I've talked to uses it) or hate it (more 'natural' pet supply stores refuse to even carry it). I'm thankful for this site because, I don't have any friends who have/like dogs and I just end up going down a google panic rabbit hole most of the time. I'm still planning to buy dental wipes, but the all natural ones I want are only sold on chewy.com and with everything going on right now, I'm not sure how long shipping will take (plus you have to spend $50 for free shipping). So anyhoo, thanks!


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