# Inbreeding - half siblings



## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

I am not the person to answer this question.I will just add that judicious line breeding, as defined here does improve the breed. I have no idea if half siblings are verboten. 

In looking at the pedigree of my new pup Gracie, there are some repeat names 4 and 5 generations back...on both sides. There is also a large variety of different names in the entire pedigree. Gracie is a beautiful, healthy, robust pup, so I trust that good decisions were made with more knowledge than I have. I know the breeder put some thought into choosing the sire of Gracie, as she shared that before the dam was bred.

Again, I am not the person to explain this in any detail, I just know it makes sense if done correctly. Someone else may ring in that knows more...I also would ask the breeder about it and see what their rationale is.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

In breeding and line breeding have their place, but they have to be well done and done sparingly. If you have a tight breeding, but then breed a total outcross, their COI (coefficient of in breeding) can drop dramatically.
Also if they have had diversity testing they may have actually been not as genetically related as it may seem.
In-breeding/line-breeding can set in good qualities, but it can set in bad qualities so it needs to be done with thought.
This is one example here.
As you can see the 2 dogs on the top of the pedigree are half siblings. the result of the 2 being bred together resulted in a dog (tiger by the tail) with a COI of about 20%. But whitediamond is a result of a complete outcross and her COI is only about 2%.
The 'ideal' that I've heard most people desire is 5-6% or less COI but sometimes you need a higher COI to stamp soemthing into the line.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

oh the link didn't post. weird. let me try again
Pedigree: CrystaltonChikota white diamonds


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

your best bet for informed advice here is from arreau, who breeds standards and even imports dogs from europe to help strengthen her lines. check the archives. also see poodlesdegrenier dot com for the views of someone long associated with the poodle diversity project. you haven't said which variety of poodle you're looking for. but i know of only one poodle breeder (of toys) who says she offers a lifetime health guarantee for her dogs. so caveat emptor.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

IF we are talking standards here, most standards were heavily inbred in the 60s and go back to the same 10 dogs (look up Wycliffe it will scare you) because that is what their knowledge at that time said was the way to produce good quality dogs. Many standards regardless of their pedigree are actually genetically as close as 2 half sibs... so pedigree is not always the best way to evaluate a breeding. 

Many breeders do still line breed and inbreed as it does produce what they want AND they are careful in the selection of breeding dogs with health as important as type. So this breeding is not an automatic OH NO!

Since diversity testing was started what looks like a very tight inbreeding on paper may in fact be a carefully planned breeding between two dogs that are as genetically different as possible. 

My suggestion would be to ask the breeder why they chose to do that particular breeding. A good breeder should be able to explain in detail why they planned that breeding and what they hope to get. They will not get upset and in fact most will be thrilled to explain the what and why.


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