# Best Training Treats?



## nifty

Hi All,

Dr Dunbar recommends having some sort of frozen liver treats ready to stuff into kongs along with kibble and to feed a dog all of his meals like that - using a portion of the daily food in training treats as well.

I want to be sure to understand this fully - does anyone (lily cd re?) know if this is meant for even young puppies (i.e. 8 weeks +) or is it meant for after the very early puppy period? 

What is meant by this liver treat for the freezer? Do I buy raw liver, cut it up and freeze? Are there safe products out there? (I found one at Petco with only one ingredient - 100% freeze dried liver which looks like a great option) - and if you use this liver as a training treat, how do you calculate how much of the poodle's daily diet was taken up by the treats?

I also liked kikopup's video showing her delicious variety of "soft smelly" treats. It looks like she maybe cooks up chicken and other things and then dices them very small for treating - which sounds like a good idea to me and maybe cheaper in the long run. Also the petco liver treats looked huge - though I can still see them being useful for the middle of a stuffed kong). Again, though, if I cook and dice up all of my treats - can someone suggest an easy way to figure out how to deduct treats from daily food so that I won't overfeed or underfeed my dog? Thanks!


----------



## Poodlebeguiled

I make liver treats. Here's my recipe: 

Take a container (not sure the size...just one of those little tubs they come in) of chicken livers from the meat dept. 

Put in blender, add an egg, mush it all up. Put in a bowl. Add 2 cups oat flour. I put in a teensy bit of garlic. (not too much) About 1 small clove.
Spread in greased 9x12 Pyrex baking dish. And sprinkle parmesan on top. Bake 350 for 1/2 hour or until sides pull away from edge of pan. cool, cut into as small pieces as you can. Probably about 1/4" and cool some more. Put into baggies in the freezer in an amount that takes 2-3 days to use. No more. 

Or you can buy healthy treats. You can use a little string cheese cut up reeeeeelly small. Regular kibble is okay IF your dog goes ape over it. If not, it's not much of a reinforcer. So use something your dog is nuts about for rewards if you want better odds of repeated wanted behaviors.

I don't calculate. I try to make the treats extremely tiny and if I've used a lot that day, I cut back a tad with the meals. Those 1/4" treats would be broken up even smaller before furnishing to the dog. I vary the treats too so it's not always the same ingredients or the same value. I use lower value for some tasks, higher value for others. I go onto a variable schedule of reinforcement once the behavior is learned. 

I give treats periodically through the day. But if I'm going to do some serious (lol, I'm never serious) training...as in, a "session," I try to do it when they haven't had their dinner yet and they're a bit hungry. (not starved, as "someone" on this forum has alluded to.


----------



## nifty

Thank you, Poodlebeguiled, this is very helpful!


----------



## poolann

When Racer was young, I used a portion of each meal for training. I started this at 7 weeks the day he came home. He is a spoo so pretty sizeable meals. As he began to lose interest in kibble as a reward I changed over to treats. I am stingy with my treat portions so I don't worry about reducing the food. As Poodlebeguiled suggested I use different value treats for different activities. 

One thing I do is cut up chicken gizzards & hearts and boil them. I strongly recommend cutting up gizzards when they are raw as they are rubbery little boogers that are almost impossible to cut after cooking. I separate them into bags and freeze them for later use as needed. I like to use one of the bags over about 3 days. 

I have done beef liver by boiling it and then baking it until it was very dry. The smell was terrible and got worse the longer it cooked. I just couldn't take and it took hours to get the smell out of the house even though the windows were open while it was cooking. There is minimal smell with the chicken I suggested 

I have used freezed dried duck liver in the past and it worked fairly well too.


----------



## Shamrockmommy

I use either cheese sticks or frozen bil jac for training. Both things are doggy crack


----------



## Indiana

I used kibble when they were little; they went crazy for it. As they got older, I just put some cooked chicken livers in with the kibble (so it was all flavoured and scented like liver) because I, like you, was afraid of throwing their nutrition out of balance. I found that was the perfect solution because livers, oily fish or strong cheeses flavour the kibble and you can use it as a treat without worrying about not giving them their necessary daily nutrition).


----------



## nifty

These suggestions are all very helpful, thank you!


----------



## Flying

I think we are using the same book! haha. My girl actually didn't like liver (We gave her Stewart Pro-Treat freeze dried beef liver), so I switched her "jackpot" treats to boiled chicken. She's absolutely nuts over them. I think Dunbar just means any treat that will drive your pup nuts.


----------



## nifty

That makes sense! I am going to try out all of these suggestions and that will give me variety, too - and I will know what are the highest value treats in my specific puppy's opinion!

LOL Yes, it sounds like we are reading the same book, Flying!


----------



## Newmum

Cheese! Yum! Ember will turn away from chicken for cheese!


----------



## lily cd re

Use only kibble for training for young pups. If you want a jackpot later on I just used the freeze dried chicken liver from the pet store. You could also try Charlie Bears, they are very low calorie. They look like oyster crackers for soup. Remember too that you need to not fall into the trap of food being a bribe. Fade it completely as fast as you can.


----------



## GeriDe

Shamrockmommy said:


> I use either cheese sticks or frozen bil jac for training. Both things are doggy crack


I read that cheese and dairy products are one of the foods that should never be given to dogs on several sites. Many are lactose intolerant. But if it works for you with no issue, go for it.


----------



## Shamrockmommy

The lactose in things like cheese, yogurt and kefir has been digested out by the bacteria. My dogs have zero issues with string cheese (or yogurt) and neither do several other dogs in the obedience classes I attend. 

Milk? yes, for sure, can cause issues (as can the carageenan hidden in milk to give the fat free/low fat milks that mouth feel that whole milk has!)


----------



## poolann

Shamrockmommy said:


> I use either cheese sticks or frozen bil jac for training. Both things are doggy crack


Totally forgot about the bil-jac. We use that at the school. I thaw it enough to separate into freezer bags for training, enough to use over 2-3 days. You can squish it into a ball to carry in your hand. Most dogs love it! Don't ever leave it in your car or purse though. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Poodlebeguiled

If you want good behavior repeated, it must be reinforced. A reinforce must modify behavior and must be something the dog considers wonderful...stupendous. Kibble is wonderful to Jose`. My Doberman turned up his nose at kibble. It had to be something much better. Absolutely no bribing. It comes after the behavior...within a couple seconds. _Once learned _you can go onto a variable schedule with treats. And then fade them more, but if you give no pay off for a long time, it's _very_ possible that the behavior will regress. That is a fact of behavioral science. If your dog begins to get sloppy or flags with a behavior he has been doing well with before, bring out your check book and pay him for his best work. Don't punish him. He's not being stubborn or blowing you off. He's operating under the laws of learning.


----------



## Tiny Poodles

Poodlebeguiled said:


> If you want good behavior repeated, it must be reinforced. A reinforce must modify behavior and must be something the dog considers wonderful...stupendous. Kibble is wonderful to Jose`. My Doberman turned up his nose at kibble. It had to be something much better. Absolutely no bribing. It comes after the behavior...within a couple seconds. _Once learned _you can go onto a variable schedule with treats. And then fade them more, but if you give no pay off for a long time, it's _very_ possible that the behavior will regress. That is a fact of behavioral science. If your dog begins to get sloppy or flags with a behavior he has been doing well with before, bring out your check book and pay him for his best work. Don't punish him. He's not being stubborn or blowing you off. He's operating under the laws of learning.



I used to train Taylee with her little rubber ball - food, she didn't care about, but that ball meant everything to her! In fact that ball is what helped her earn the highest score out of hundreds of dogs in a dog IQ test. You just have to find what motivates a particular dog, and training is easy (at least when it is a dog with a poodle IQ)!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Poodlebeguiled

Tiny Poodles said:


> I used to train Taylee with her little rubber ball - food, she didn't care about, but that ball meant everything to her! In fact that ball is what helped her earn the highest score out of hundreds of dogs in a dog IQ test. You just have to find what motivates a particular dog, and training is easy (at least when it is a dog with a poodle IQ)!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Absolutely. There are many types of rewards. If a dog likes treats, I use them for many tasks. For instance, teaching heel. I want to be able to keep the dog heeling and treat every few steps with something the dog can eat quickly without breaking his pace and without stopping for a game. But if it's something where there's a finish to it, a special toy or game can be great. When I was in agility with my Dobe, I'd reward the end of a run by throwing his squeaky toy over the finish and he'd run fast to get it, getting him in the habit of racing past the end. 

I use life rewards all the time, trying to keep in mind throughout the day what it is my dogs would like...or would like to do and then I wait until their behavior is what I'd like to give them what they want...be it going outside, getting up on my lap, getting their toys dumped out for them, going on a walk etc, etc. I'm teaching them to use the stairs to get off the couch. So, when I am wanting to take them for a walk, I don't say, "wanna go for a walk" UNTIL they do something like go down the steps for me first, then I snap on the leash and off we go. So, that can be a reward for their stair stepping.


----------



## nifty

Poodlebeguiled said:


> If you want good behavior repeated, it must be reinforced. A reinforce must modify behavior and must be something the dog considers wonderful...stupendous. Kibble is wonderful to Jose`. My Doberman turned up his nose at kibble. It had to be something much better. Absolutely no bribing. It comes after the behavior...within a couple seconds. _Once learned _you can go onto a variable schedule with treats. And then fade them more, but if you give no pay off for a long time, it's _very_ possible that the behavior will regress. That is a fact of behavioral science. If your dog begins to get sloppy or flags with a behavior he has been doing well with before, bring out your check book and pay him for his best work. Don't punish him. He's not being stubborn or blowing you off. He's operating under the laws of learning.


Makes sense, Poodlebeguiled! I'm going to start by using kibble and play it by ear as the training proceeds, being open to making adjustments as necessary. As both you and lily cd re have pointed out, I will be careful to avoid bribery and will fade the lure as soon as the behavior is learned, while being sure to occasionally reward to keep the behavior fresh.

Thanks to everyone for these helpful responses!


----------



## PammiPoodle

I do a lot of low-calorie and very natural stuff, like cooked veggies and dried fruit. I love apple rings for their ease of transport/dispensing. I can keep one or two in my pocket, and while it's not the most sanitary thing, they don't leave juice or grease on my clothes. Sometimes my pockets smell like apples! Also, it's so easy to just hold one in your hand, or even stick your finger right through the ring, and just tear off pieces as needed. Of course, my little girls get twenty rewards from one apple ring, bigger dogs will need more than one! : P Other common treats for us are Cheerios, regular kibble, peas, peanut butter, applesauce, and then whatever I'm eating that's dog safe can be used as a very special reward. I feed them the wet stuff off of a utensil.

I don't worry too much about treats throwing their diet out of whack, but my dogs are adults I think our treat-to-food ratio is pretty safe. With a puppy it is hard to balance! When mine were younger they ate a wide variety of treats to introduce them to different foods and flavors, but I still mostly used their kibble for training. The other day I experimented with microwaving kibble. It made my kitchen smell like french fries (must've been the oil?) and the dogs went crazy for their stinky, toasted kibble!! Haha Obviously, you'd have to be very careful to let the kibble cool a bit and not have hot spots that could burn, but it might raise the value in your pup's eyes (or nose!) of basic kibble!

Ian Dunbar has said that some of his instructions are especially specific simply because people are more likely to follow a specific instruction than a vague one. So he may say "After your puppy potties outside, give him three liver treats and then return inside to play with an empty bladder." It doesn't really matter if the treat is liver, just that it's highly appreciated by the dog, or if the number is exactly three, but give a little treat party. : )


----------



## kontiki

When I am training my spoo I make up a variety of treats and put a few in about 3 or 4 small bowls or cups near me. I may have two different low value treats, and one high value treat. I use the high value ones for when he really catches on fast, or when he finally gets it, or for more difficult things.

For low value treats I get those little sample bags of kibble. I only use ones that are grain free, the puppy ones are pretty small bits. I also cut up cheese really tiny for higher value treats. I bake chicken livers - just plain - in the oven on a tray with aluminum foil for about an hour at 350. I freeze them 2 - 3 to a baggie and defrost slightly cut up really small. Also If I cook any meat for dinner I cut off a few small pieces and use those for high value treats later. Also, my spoo loves blueberries, raspberries and blackberries and I use those too!

If I purchase treats I get only the ones with one or two ingredients. I totally avoid anything with chemicals, wheat, etc.

Have fun training! Oh - just a note, I never give out a treat unless he does something first, even if it is just to sit. With so much training he thinks he was just rewarded for something if he gets one, so whatever it was he was just doing before has become reinforced. It's lot easier to have him do something, anything, before a treat than to discover I have just rewarded him for barking or jumping or something I didn't want!


----------



## mother4

One site I visited mentioned Merrick dried lamb lung - we break that up into small bits - our three dogs all love these -


----------



## jessiemarielo

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I make liver treats. Here's my recipe:
> 
> Take a container (not sure the size...just one of those little tubs they come in) of chicken livers from the meat dept.
> 
> Put in blender, add an egg, mush it all up. Put in a bowl. Add 2 cups oat flour. I put in a teensy bit of garlic. (not too much) About 1 small clove.
> Spread in greased 9x12 Pyrex baking dish. And sprinkle parmesan on top. Bake 350 for 1/2 hour or until sides pull away from edge of pan. cool, cut into as small pieces as you can. Probably about 1/4" and cool some more. Put into baggies in the freezer in an amount that takes 2-3 days to use. No more.
> 
> Or you can buy healthy treats. You can use a little string cheese cut up reeeeeelly small. Regular kibble is okay IF your dog goes ape over it. If not, it's not much of a reinforcer. So use something your dog is nuts about for rewards if you want better odds of repeated wanted behaviors.
> 
> I don't calculate. I try to make the treats extremely tiny and if I've used a lot that day, I cut back a tad with the meals. Those 1/4" treats would be broken up even smaller before furnishing to the dog. I vary the treats too so it's not always the same ingredients or the same value. I use lower value for some tasks, higher value for others. I go onto a variable schedule of reinforcement once the behavior is learned.
> 
> I give treats periodically through the day. But if I'm going to do some serious (lol, I'm never serious) training...as in, a "session," I try to do it when they haven't had their dinner yet and they're a bit hungry. (not starved, as "someone" on this forum has alluded to.


Can I ask roughly how long this batch lasts you and approximate cost? Wondering if it is easier to just buy them.


----------

