# How to make him eat his food?



## Joelly

Hi Everyone,

I own a toy poodle mix (his trainer said he is mix with westie but judges still out on that). His name is Charlie. He is an extremely picky eater. At 4 months old, his weight is 9 lbs. 

Here is his usual food: Kibble (BilJac Chicken), Innova Canned Food and Stella Chewy. I usually mix the kibble with warm water and add Innova canned food then sprinkle with stella chewy duck. Usually he gobbles this down but lately he just sniff it and go to sleep next to the bowl. It frustrates me. I can hear his stomach growl but he still won't eat.

I bought bacon and cooked that and pour the oil over his kibble and serve and he refuse to eat that as well.

I sprinkle parmesan cheese onto his kibble mix with canned food and the stella chewy and he gobbles that. I'm happy then repeat that menu for the next day, he sniff it and walk away to sleep. :argh:

So I bought chicken wing and boil it and mix the kibble with the broth, same thing happens, he sniff it and leave it alone. But when I scoop a little of it with my finger and hold it in front of his nose, he sniffs it and lick it then he clean the bowl. I can't do this on a busy morning.

I'm very sad for Charlie, I don't have anymore ideas on what to do. I want to keep him on kibble mix with a home-cooked broth or chicken but I hesitate to go to raw as I don't have a clue of it. This whole food thing used to be so simple. Sorry for venting.

Please give me ideas on what I can do. 

Thanks so much!!!



Kind regards,

Joelly and Charlie


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## NorthJerseyGirrl

How frustrating! You are trying so hard. And poor little hungry guy. 

My dog (age 13 mos. and around 4.5 lbs.) is a bit picky too, especially because I am restricting her diet due to dental problems (she is very decay-prone). I am bending a little on the rules because I can't stand it if she refuses to eat at all, but her diet is 80-85% kibble coated with a tiny bit of wet food, with healthy treats, chicken, cheese (tiny bits), occasional eggs, and bones on the side. I find she does get bored with the kibble, so I alternate and combine brands. Is it possible for you to mix up his diet a little instead of expecting him to eat the same thing all the time?

Also, make sure the kibble is fresh--very important. My poor dog almost starved one week because I didn't realize the kibble had gone bad. It was brand new, and I'm a vegetarian who doesn't like the smell of any dog food except Orijen for puppies (smells like peanut butter), so it didn't even occur to me. 

Have you tried boiled chicken? Lightly cooked beef bones (knuckle bones are a great size for toys)? Scrambled egg? (Stir, microwave for 30 seconds, and serve at room temperature? Little bits of hard cheese, like cheddar? All those worked for me when Libby was a finicky baby, and still work every time.

Sorry, the bacon fat does not sound too healthy IMO!

Good luck!


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## CharismaticMillie

Hmm..Stomach growling could mean he is hungry or it could mean something else is wrong. When my boy started refusing to eat and had rumbling noises from his tummy he actually had a stomach bug.


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## tokipoke

I would think rotating the food too frequently would encourage picky eating?

Maybe a checkup at the vet will indicate if there's any medical reasons for the pickiness.

You can try premade raw like Nature's Variety to see if he likes it. He won't need that much food on raw being small so it is affordable. My 13lb dog Louis eats 4ozs of raw food. I think puppies will require more food during puppyhood but raw is still doable.

When I got Louis I fed him the kibble he came with. Barely ate it and picked at it. He was so skinny I was worried. As soon as I switched to raw, he ate so fast he almost choked. Now it turns out he isn't a picky eater at all (very food motivated), just didn't want that particular kibble.


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## TrinaBoo

My toy Trina was extremely picky. She would pick out a couple pieces of kibble a couple times a day. I went and bought some Natures Variety Frozen Raw to help with allergies and was shocked when she had the 2oz serving gone in seconds! Her food costs went from almost non existent to about $30 a month.


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## LEUllman

Another vote for NV frozen raw. Beau loves his bison.


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## pgr8dnlvr

I just wanted to say I can sympathize .

My 5 1/2 month toy is still supposed to be growing, yet she has stopped eating again for who knows what reason, and has now started LOSING weight. As a pup she should not even be maintaining, but rather GAINING weight! She's even somewhat picky with people food. I'm so tired of trying everything on the market. I can't afford it and how they heck do you store six or seven different bags of food?!

I've had blood tests and urinalysis done and know there is no clinical reason for her to refuse the food right now.

What's worse?! She's starting signs of a food allergy. How the heck is one supposed to figure out what she's allergic to when I'm literally trying EVERYTHING under the sun right now including multiple cat foods?!?

Rebecca


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## TrinaBoo

6 or 7 bags of food? For what?


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## pgr8dnlvr

Trying every brand I can. Gotta buy a bag each time . Also, like someone suggested earlier on this thread sometimes rotating seems to work.

Rebecca


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## fjm

Both my toy dogs went off kibble at about that age - I realised that they were teething and the hard kibble was uncomfortable for them. Sophy also hated kibble the moment it began to go stale - and a typical bag of kibble lasts a toy puppy forever! Premixed raw is definitely a good idea, if you can find it, or even one of the good moist foods. In the UK we can get NatureDiet, which most dogs love - it was looking at the ingredients and working out their cost versus what I was paying per pack that convinced me to move to raw and home cooked! Lots of good ideas on different diets for dogs here: DogAware.com: Diet & Health Info for Man's Best Friend


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## Lily's-Mom

I just wanted to mention that some of the better pet supply stores around here will take returns if the dog doesn't like the food. I am not sure if they give a refund or store credit since I haven't had to do this, but I asked about sample sizes one time and they told me of their policy. Also, many stores do carry sample size bags of food to let you try them (another shop around here gives the one serving sample bags for free). Something to ask about instead of having so many bags of uneaten food.


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## Joelly

Everyone, you have no idea how very grateful I am for your thoughts and cares. Thanks a million for all the advise. I will definitely try the Nature's Variety Frozen Raw. Also, thanks for the idea to ask for sample dog food, I've never thought of that. I think DH returned a stella chewy lamb to Centinela once because Charlie doesn't like it and they suggested the duck instead which Charlie likes then but not now. About the bacon fat, he doesn't like it at all so I won't be giving that to him. DH and I don't eat bacon so it isn't a staple for us either. 

Last nite, I boiled three chicken wings and I break them in three pieces. Charlie ate two wings last night. Even the bones. However, I notice he ate very slowly like he isn't sure what he is eating. BUT he finished one-and-a-half wings and I'm happy happy. Half an hour later, we walk as usual. This weird thing happens. His poo is liquid and very little poo. He tried the first time come out liquid, then we walk then he tried again and another liquid very little, then we walk again and he tried again and this time nothing comes out. He kept looking at me and I keep praising him and giving him his treat but inside I'm screaming like whats wrong with him. He doesn't act sick, in fact he is his happy prancy galloped self all the time that we walk. He loves to stop and sniff and I try to let him do that, except if he smell something dangerous or bad or dirty.

After about 45-min walking, I took him home and I gave him chicken broth, instead of water. He drank a little broth then he looked at me asking for water so I gave him water and he drank that too, a lot of water. He doesn't act like he is sick. He is still hyper jumping around even after that walk.

This morning we walked again and he peed outside (twice). His breakfast is kibble mix with broth and some pieces of chicken. He ate a little of that but he ate. I took his plate and replace the broth-mix-kibble with the dry kibble, as I was getting ready to work I noticed that he nibble at them so I thought maybe he like it dry and not mix with broth. So there's hope after all. Before I went to work, I left a handful of kibble in his play pen. As I walked out the door, I saw him eating his kibble so I'm a little happy about that.

What do you think of his weird poo? Should I go to the vet? What should I do when I hear his stomach growl? Could he has an acid stomach?


Kind regards,

Joelly and Charlie


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## fjm

DO NOT FEED COOKED CHICKEN BONES! Do not feed ANY cooked bones, but especially not chicken bones! The meat and the broth from cooked chicken is fine, but the bones can splinter and be very dangerous. Watch him carefully, and if there is any sign of pain, or fever, get him to the vet ASAP.


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## Joelly

Oh my gosh, how do I do this? I feed like that last nite. Oh gosh! Thanks for alerting me!


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## fjm

He will probably be fine, but don't take the risk again. Raw chicken bones are safe, but cooked bones can be very dangerous.


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## Silver Lace

Hi,
I agree that your baby should see the vet if he has suddenly just stopped eating and his stomach is growling. At least call the office and ask to speak to your vet and find out what the vet thinks about it. There could be a medical reason why he is not eating. It is a very scary and frustrating situation to be in. I am so sorry that this is happening to you and your little one. I never had a problem with a dog not eating until I got my Yorkie two years ago. He started this right after I got him and it drove me nuts but now he does not give me that problem and I was so relieved that it stopped.


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## Joelly

Thanks fjm. Is there any special food I can feed him to make sure he's ok?


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## CharismaticMillie

Joelly said:


> Thanks fjm. Is there any special food I can feed him to make sure he's ok?


There is no special food you can feed to lessen the risk of eating a cooked chicken bone, which is known to be extremely dangerous due to it's tendency to splinter. Just keep a close eye and go to the vet if you notice any of the symptoms FJM described. 

Cooked bones are brittle and sharp.

Raw bones are soft, pliable, and easily digested by dogs without risk of splintering.


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## Joelly

I told DH about this. DH left his store and now at home checking on Charlie. DH said he seems okay. He still his happy self, galloping around in his play pen as he saw DH came in. DH just give him cooked rice with broth, which he eats, but very little. We hope he will be okay. Gosh! What an idiot I am.


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## CharismaticMillie

Joelly said:


> I told DH about this. DH left his store and now at home checking on Charlie. DH said he seems okay. He still his happy self, galloping around in his play pen as he saw DH came in. DH just give him cooked rice with broth, which he eats, but very little. We hope he will be okay. Gosh! What an idiot I am.


We all make mistakes, don't feel bad! Just keep an eye on the pup, which it's clear you do anyway.


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## NorthJerseyGirrl

People please correct me if I am wrong, but lightly cooked beef bones are okay... So my breeder told me and she gives them to all her dogs... It's just chicken bones that cannot be cooked. Raw chicken bones incl. wings are great. Tricky!

Joelly, bones can lead to constipation and very hard stools. That may be what happened to Charlie. If that is it, he will be fine again as soon as he poops. It is good to give him some other things to eat that balance out the bones, like just a tiny amount of fruits or veggies if he will eat them, or (I think) animal organs (liver, heart, etc.). Hard poop is good, but if it's like a rock it is hard for them to pass (and painful). Since my pup is on a mainly kibble diet that is all I know about bones but others here can tell you more. Good luck with your problem baby!


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## CharismaticMillie

NorthJerseyGirrl said:


> People please correct me if I am wrong, but lightly cooked beef bones are okay... So my breeder told me and she gives them to all her dogs... It's just chicken bones that cannot be cooked. Raw chicken bones incl. wings are great. Tricky!
> 
> Joelly, bones can lead to constipation and very hard stools. That may be what happened to Charlie. If that is it, he will be fine again as soon as he poops. It is good to give him some other things to eat that balance out the bones, like just a tiny amount of fruits or veggies if he will eat them, or (I think) animal organs (liver, heart, etc.). Hard poop is good, but if it's like a rock it is hard for them to pass (and painful). Since my pup is on a mainly kibble diet that is all I know about bones but others here can tell you more. Good luck with your problem baby!


Well, whether or not cooked bones of any kind are appropriate is highly debatable. But yes, chicken is the big no no.

Personally, I won't feed cooked bones of any kind because they _all_ can splinter, even lightly cooked beef bones. A raw beef bone is much safer.


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## taem

Isn't Stella & Chewy raw? (Some of their freeze dried raw is one of the few things my stupefyingly finicky puppy will eat.) So you're already doing some raw. There's a ton of frozen, freeze dried, and air dried raw out there that's as convenient as kibble and might be tastier than his kibble, and to the best of my knowledge you can mix and match these safely, though ideally you'd want to feed only one brand.

For frozen raw I like SmallBatch because they come in 1 ounce patties and have a lot of flavors including duck and rabbit. It also smells like meat, unlike say Aunt Jeni's which smells like wet kale and which Sydney runs away from.

You could reconstitute freeze dried raw like Stella & Chewy or K9 Naturals with low sodium chicken broth instead of water, Sydney sometimes like that. I usually serve freeze dried raw dry though, since if Syd is refusing frozen raw that means she doesn't want something wet that meal.

Ziwi Peak makes an air dried raw, their Daily Cuisine line, it looks like tiny little jerky pieces and I can get her to put some of that down by putting it in various treat dispensers like balls with holes in it, or those nina ottosson style games.

There's a dried raw called Dried & Alive which looks and crunches like kibble but has live enzymes.

For toppers Sydney really likes PureBites brand duck liver, it also crumbles very easily into a powder, just take out a piece and rub it between your fingers over the food. The chicken flakes very easily also, and the whitefish is nice and stinky.

Also, I can get Syd to eat a little better if I put her food in front of me at the table and give her a little at a time. She's much more likely to eat it if she thinks that's what I'm eating.


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## fjm

What Sophy the formerly picky eater ate yesterday:
Breakfast: Half a raw chicken wing
Supper: 2 ounces raw green tripe
Treat: A raw lamb bone (that turned out to have more meat on than I thought)
Without my knowledge till too late: Half a young rabbit that Tilly-cat gave her, complete with fur, etc, etc

What Sophy the formerly picky eater will get to eat today:
Very, very little! So far a small spoonful of cooked mixed meats and vegetables. For some reason she says she is not very hungry...!


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## Joelly

Thank you so much for sharing your dog feeding habit. This really helps.

Yesterday, Charlie picked me up at work. DH and I took him to Centinela to find out about the Nature's Variety Frozen Raw. DH was not convinced so he bought a ball for Charlie instead. Charlie pooped inside the store and his pooped seemed normal. He didn't seem to be in pain. Hopefully the bone comes out. 

While waiting for me to cook dinner for DH, DH and Charlie went to a park nearby and play. He got so exhausted when he got back. He drank his water and went napping. I have to wake him up for dinner.

For dinner, I fed him rice, cooked chicken meat and chicken broth (all home-cooked meal). He ate the chicken and a little rice and finish the broth. Half-an-hour later we went for his usual walk. He peed and pooped as usual and prancing around and barking at a GSD who ignores him completely.

He loves his kibble actually but he wont eat it when its wet or when I mix it with Stella Chewy. Usually he likes them mix with canned and stella chewy. Now he sniffed at it and walk away. However, this morning and yesterday morning, he ate his kibble dry. I use BilJac Chicken. Before walking out to work, I usually left some kibble out for him, just in case he is hungry during the day.

I tried my best to feed him but feel frustrated at times when he just sniff it and walk away. He plays hard so he should have appetite, or so I thought. He has changed so much from the way he was when he was 3.5 months old. He doesn't like his usual mix food, he likes them separate now. 

Also, we don't give him treat as freely as we did before. Usually we give him treat just because he is cute. We realize that this is not good for him so now no treats unless he earns it. He definitely will get treat when he pees and poos outside. He is getting treats when he pees and poos inside on his wee wee pad. Going back to basic is what happen at home now. Even DH and I need to retrain ourselves.


Kind regards,

Joelly and Charlie


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## Joelly

fjm said:


> What Sophy the formerly picky eater ate yesterday:
> Breakfast: Half a raw chicken wing
> Supper: 2 ounces raw green tripe
> Treat: A raw lamb bone (that turned out to have more meat on than I thought)
> Without my knowledge till too late: Half a young rabbit that Tilly-cat gave her, complete with fur, etc, etc
> 
> What Sophy the formerly picky eater will get to eat today:
> Very, very little! So far a small spoonful of cooked mixed meats and vegetables. For some reason she says she is not very hungry...!


Sophy might still be full from yesterday food. I am curious on the vegetables part. What type of vegetable do you feed her? How do you cook it? Do you serve raw veggies as well?


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## Joelly

taem said:


> Also, I can get Syd to eat a little better if I put her food in front of me at the table and give her a little at a time. She's much more likely to eat it if she thinks that's what I'm eating.


Lol. Syd is so cute. I wonder if this will work for Charlie.

I didn't even realize that Stella Chewy is raw.:dazed: We got that because the staff at Centinela recommends it for Charlie. He usually hates it but at about 3months old, he loves it when we mix it with the kibble and canned food. Now, he only wants to eat it unmix. He is such a picky eater.


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## CharismaticMillie

Joelly said:


> Lol. Syd is so cute. I wonder if this will work for Charlie.
> 
> I didn't even realize that Stella Chewy is raw.:dazed: We got that because the staff at Centinela recommends it for Charlie. He usually hates it but at about 3months old, he loves it when we mix it with the kibble and canned food. Now, he only wants to eat it unmix. He is such a picky eater.


Stella & Chewy sells frozen raw and freeze dried "raw". Franky, the freeze dried is not raw, because it's freeze dried...


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## fjm

Sophy is most certainly full from yesterday - she is also on a strict diet for a while until she runs off all the extra calories!

They have a mixture of vegetables - no onions, which are bad for dogs and worse for cats, but carrots, peas, green beans, cauliflower, broccoli, a little green leafy veg - anything I have in the fridge or freezer. I cook it either with the minced meat and ofal, or in some of the gravy, and mix it in with the cooked meat. The quantity depends upon whether I am trying to get their weight down after rabbit season or not. 

Neither of them like raw veg much - they accept a piece politely, and then leave it somewhere in the house, so I have stopped giving it to them.


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## CharismaticMillie

fjm said:


> Neither of them like raw veg much - they accept a piece politely, and then leave it somewhere in the house, so I have stopped giving it to them.


Yep, that's what mine do too! Ha ha. Mine also prefer veggies of cooked.


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## taem

CharismaticMillie said:


> Stella & Chewy sells frozen raw and freeze dried "raw". Franky, the freeze dried is not raw, because it's freeze dried...


I wondered about that, but the freeze drying process does not cook the food or change its chemical composition afaik. I'm being told it's the same as frozen raw without the moisture. It's got live enzymes, which is one of the principal differences between raw and cooked.

There's also two different kinds of freeze drying process, one of which uses much higher pressure and amounts to pressure cooking. Stella & Chewy and K9 Naturals uses the lower pressure process which is better nutritionally.

I do prefer the frozen simply because Sydney, in addition to not eating, doesn't drink either (it's a miracle she's still alive frankly), so I like the moisture content of frozen.


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## Joelly

taem said:


> it's a miracle she's still alive frankly.


Sometimes I thought the same thing about Charlie.


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## Joelly

Yesterday Charlie refused to eat his breakfast. DH came by the house at 4.30pm and found his bowl still full and untouched. So DH gave in and bought Nature's Variety Frozen Raw Organic Chicken from Centinela. He befriended the sales associate there who assure him if the dog doesn't like it, eventhough the bag is half eaten, DH can always bring it back either for a refund or for an exchange. According to the sales associate, the returned food will be donated to the animal shelters. DH felt good about it and bought the Nature's Variety. DH thawed it and gave it to Charlie who ate one medallion. There is progress after all.


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## taem

Joelly said:


> So DH gave in and bought Nature's Variety Frozen Raw Organic Chicken from Centinela... DH thawed it and gave it to Charlie who ate one medallion. There is progress after all.


Nature's Variety 1 ounce patties is what my neighbor feeds her mini doxie, who is almost 13 and in great condition, I think that's a good diet, Trudy has a glossy coat, no health issues, is very energetic and active, plays like a puppy. Hopefully Charlie will take to it and continue eating it.

Do you plan to try to feed the NV patties as long as he's eating it? With Sydney, even if she likes it, if I give it to her too many meals in a row she will lose interest.


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## Joelly

taem said:


> Do you plan to try to feed the NV patties as long as he's eating it? With Sydney, even if she likes it, if I give it to her too many meals in a row she will lose interest.


It is my fear too. Charlie lose interest so quick. To keep him interested in it I think I will alternate it which means he won't be getting NV every meal. One day he'll have it for breakfast and another day will be for dinner. This way he'll eat his kibble too. Last nite he had NV, this morning for breakfast he ate his kibble, of course not right away because he waits to see if NV will be served, he kept his eyes on me waiting but after about 10-15 min later when he realizes that that is it, he ate them but not finish them.

We found he likes honey peach. He ate those with gusto. I wonder if it is okay to feed him peaches. I hope so. DH loves peaches so we have lots at home when it is in season. 

BTW, I love Sydney and I enjoyed your videos. Charlie is a mix toypoo so I think his hair wont be as poofy as Sydney but I do hope so.


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## mom24doggies

Glad you seem to have figured Charlie out.  I just wanted to mention that BilJac isn't a very high quality food (IMO) and it might be a good idea to switch to something else; in fact it may be why Charlie is giving you so much trouble, some dogs refuse to eat a lower quality kibble. It has a lot of corn and by products and fillers in it. Plus the meat ingredients aren't in meal form, which means by the time all the moisture is removed you have a food with mostly corn in it. Just thought I would run that by you.


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## Joelly

mom24doggies said:


> BilJac isn't a very high quality food (IMO) and it might be a good idea to switch to something else; in fact it may be why Charlie is giving you so much trouble, some dogs refuse to eat a lower quality kibble. It has a lot of corn and by products and fillers in it. Plus the meat ingredients aren't in meal form, which means by the time all the moisture is removed you have a food with mostly corn in it.


Thanks so much for mentioning it. I have no clue. Which brand should I get? The Centinela Staff suggested Merricks or Lotus. I am open for any suggestions.


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## CharismaticMillie

Joelly said:


> Thanks so much for mentioning it. I have no clue. Which brand should I get? The Centinela Staff suggested Merricks or Lotus. I am open for any suggestions.


I'm a lotus fan! I feed a combo of raw and Lotus right now.


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## tokipoke

It may be helpful to stick to one type of food to curb his pickiness. If he is craving the NV, why not just go 100% NV medallions? You did say he ate the whole thing. If he loses interest in it, try a different flavor of NV.
There are many different kinds: chicken, beef, bison, venison, lamb, duck. Each has a different smell and will pique interest.


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## Joelly

tokipoke said:


> It may be helpful to stick to one type of food to curb his pickiness. If he is craving the NV, why not just go 100% NV medallions? You did say he ate the whole thing. If he loses interest in it, try a different flavor of NV.
> There are many different kinds: chicken, beef, bison, venison, lamb, duck. Each has a different smell and will pique interest.


DH and I just talking about it now. Charlie just ate dinner consist of two medallions and his kibbles. I mixed them and he ate them with gusto. Once finished, he come and look up at me like "I want more". I've been burned before when he ate too much dinner and completely ignore his breakfast so no more for me. I gave him his honey peach though and he finished that too.

So far I've been very happy with NV raw. I will change around the taste if he grew bore of it. Gosh, I hope he doesn't but if he does then at least I have a plan B.


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## NorthJerseyGirrl

Can anyone advise on how NV frozen food affects teeth? As mentioned above and elsewhere, my toy has problematic, very decay-prone teeth. Her dental specialist vet advised a 100 percent kibble diet but I am finding that impossible to implement. So many people here as well as her breeder recommend bones for dental health. What about raw? 

About kibble, Joelly - have you tried Orijen puppy kibble? That was Libby's main food. I haven't had as good luck with Orijen adult kibble (got an awful smelling bag, called the mfr, and was told it was normal :2in1, but now she's on Arcana. I ordered it without realizing it was made by the same company. So far so good. I alternate or mix it with Evo, also good. 

This website might help you.
Five Star Raw Dog Foods | Dog Food Advisor


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## tokipoke

Joelly said:


> DH and I just talking about it now. Charlie just ate dinner consist of two medallions and his kibbles. I mixed them and he ate them with gusto. Once finished, he come and look up at me like "I want more". I've been burned before when he ate too much dinner and completely ignore his breakfast so no more for me. I gave him his honey peach though and he finished that too.
> 
> So far I've been very happy with NV raw. I will change around the taste if he grew bore of it. Gosh, I hope he doesn't but if he does then at least I have a plan B.


Nothing wrong if you choose to mix the kibble and NV. People will tell you to never mix kibble and raw but if it works for your dog so be it. There are many raw feeders who feed kibble as a separate meal as a backup if they cannot feed raw when traveling.

I feel that just sticking with the NV medallions will be easier for you in the long run. Charlie will look forward to his meals, and eat all of it, and look for more! That is how Louis is. He acts like he's starving, which is a great contrast to him barely sniffing his kibble. Sure, the raw medallions will cost more than the kibble but will be worth it (especially for a small dog). Think of all the different kibble, wet food, and such you buy that he doesn't want to eat. That is money wasted right there.

If Charlie loses total interest in all of the NV flavors, then you can entice him with raw chicken necks, maybe some raw tripe. And before you know it, you're a prey model raw feeder haha.


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## tokipoke

NorthJerseyGirrl said:


> Can anyone advise on how NV frozen food affects teeth? As mentioned above and elsewhere, my toy has problematic, very decay-prone teeth. Her dental specialist vet advised a 100 percent kibble diet but I am finding that impossible to implement. So many people here as well as her breeder recommend bones for dental health. What about raw?


It's always good for dogs to chew on bones for dental benefits whether fed pre-made raw or kibble. But even on pre-made or ground raw, raw meaty bones help with teeth. Of course Leroy was born with bad teeth so I don't see spectacular effects people always talk about with the RMB's. But at least Leroy's teeth aren't looking worse. Louis's (toy breed) look great. The only RMB's he's had so far are chicken necks, one small turkey neck, and chicken wings. He doesn't get the RMB's all the time. 

I also give my dogs dried bones, which some people will tell you to never do. I only get the knee-caps though (I think that's what they are, looks like the size of a plum) because it has the perfect amount of stuff to chew off and then they grind their teeth on the bone. It's the perfect size to satisfy chewing without ruining the appetite. AND I can have these bones in my living room without worrying about spreading blood and germs. I do not give the sliced, dried knuckle bone because that is too much marrow for a small dog. Louis ground off most of the marrow on one of these and he literally pooped 10 times in one day, all dry, powdery poop.

A friend told me she stopped completely with rawhides and bones because her dog chipped her canine on a rolled rawhide. She said her vet said that dogs shouldn't be given anything that has no give to it, because they can easily chip their tooth on it. Due to her $800 vet visit to fix the tooth (quote from another vet was in the thousands), she no longer gives dried stuff. It's up to you what you want to give your dog, but just keep in mind many have their own opinions on what's good/bad for dogs.


FYI - whether dried or raw - no weight bearing bones! They will definitely chip their tooth on these type of bones.


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## CharismaticMillie

NorthJerseyGirrl said:


> Can anyone advise on how NV frozen food affects teeth? As mentioned above and elsewhere, my toy has problematic, very decay-prone teeth. Her dental specialist vet advised a 100 percent kibble diet but I am finding that impossible to implement. So many people here as well as her breeder recommend bones for dental health. What about raw?
> 
> About kibble, Joelly - have you tried Orijen puppy kibble? That was Libby's main food. I haven't had as good luck with Orijen adult kibble (got an awful smelling bag, called the mfr, and was told it was normal :2in1, but now she's on Arcana. I ordered it without realizing it was made by the same company. So far so good. I alternate or mix it with Evo, also good.
> 
> This website might help you.
> Five Star Raw Dog Foods | Dog Food Advisor


Kibble is TERRIBLE for teeth. 

NV Raw medallions should not cause your dogs teeth to progressively get worse the way kibble will. But it won't improve teeth the way eating a homemade raw diet with whole pieces of bone-in and boneless meat will.

The reason whole pieces of edible bone and boneless meat help with teeth is because the edible bone (and we are not talking recreational or "wreck" bones like marrow, knuckle, that will break teeth, but bones like chicken legs, turkey necks, pork/lamb/beef ribs) is because as they EAT the bone, it scrapes against their teeth knocks off tartar. Chicken bones, in general, will do a little for teeth, but not a lot. Harder, but still at least partially edible bones, like beef/pork/lamb ribs do a lot more for teeth.

Boneless (whole pieces) of meat is helpful because the meat serves to floss in between and against the teeth.

Finally, raw, in general, does not stick _to, on, or in between_ the teeth the way that kibble and canned food both do. This is why even a premade raw diet (like Natures Variety) will not lead to *additional* plaque buildup the way that kibble and canned will.


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## Joelly

tokipoke said:


> Think of all the different kibble, wet food, and such you buy that he doesn't want to eat. That is money wasted right there.


True!!!


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## taem

I made a mistake earlier, Stella & Chewy *is* hydrostatic pressure treated (both the freeze dried and frozen), so the enzymes are all killed off. If you use this you should add enzymes. (I add enzymes anyway, ever since I was forced off raw meaty bone diet by puppy's uncooperativeness. I use Animal Essentials Plant Enzymes and Probiotics powder.)

K9 Natural does *not* hydrostatic pressure treat, that line (again both frozen and freeze dried) is better for that reason. SmallBatch also does not hydrostatic pressure treat, but that's a local firm and I don't know how available their products are elsewhere.

Or so I am informed.

I'm not sure about Nature's Variety.



CharismaticMillie said:


> Chicken bones, in general, will do a little for teeth, but not a lot. Harder, but still at least partially edible bones, like beef/pork/lamb ribs do a lot more for teeth.


Dang that is bad news, I was using bone-in chicken for dental purposes. I guess I need to switch. Wonder what would be good for a mini poodle, lamb rib? Those are expensive though. And I'm not sure she can eat them because I sometimes get her lamb shoulder blade chops which are cheaper and those often have a bit of the ribs hanging on and she only chews those clean, she doesn't eat them.

I give puppy a lot of marrow bones, those round ones. She doesn't try to chew the bone, she just gnaws the marrow out and scrapes the stuff on the outside of the bone. When it's stripped clean she leaves it and walks away, she doesn't even try to bury it like she does with bones she eats. She gets some buildup of whatever from freeze dried raw and these marrow bones take that stuff right off.


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## tokipoke

taem said:


> Dang that is bad news, I was using bone-in chicken for dental purposes. I guess I need to switch. Wonder what would be good for a mini poodle, lamb rib? Those are expensive though. And I'm not sure she can eat them because I sometimes get her lamb shoulder blade chops which are cheaper and those often have a bit of the ribs hanging on and she only chews those clean, she doesn't eat them.


I like pork ribs. More crunch, but the whole thing is still edible.


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## Joelly

Wow! So many great information here.

What do you think of NV raw bones? They have those available as well. Has anyone try it? 

Where could I get pork rib?


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## CharismaticMillie

taem said:


> Dang that is bad news, I was using bone-in chicken for dental purposes. I guess I need to switch. Wonder what would be good for a mini poodle, lamb rib? Those are expensive though. And I'm not sure she can eat them because I sometimes get her lamb shoulder blade chops which are cheaper and those often have a bit of the ribs hanging on and she only chews those clean, she doesn't eat them.


Yep, I'd use pork ribs. 

About the HPP - Nature's Variety and I believe at least one variety of Primal Frozen is also HPP. This is why I feed raw in bulk tubs from My Pet Carnivore and/or the premade from Northwest Naturals.


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## CharismaticMillie

Joelly said:


> Wow! So many great information here.
> 
> What do you think of NV raw bones? They have those available as well. Has anyone try it?
> 
> Where could I get pork rib?


I think of the NV raw bones as a waste of money. I'd go to the grocery store and buy the same thing cheaper.

Pork ribs can come from your local butcher - at the grocery store or a butcher shop.


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## taem

CharismaticMillie said:


> Yep, I'd use pork ribs.
> 
> About the HPP - Nature's Variety and I believe at least one variety of Primal Frozen is also HPP. This is why I feed raw in bulk tubs from My Pet Carnivore and/or the premade from Northwest Naturals.


Dang Nature's Variety Raw Instinct pellets are something I just tried, which Sydney ate as soon as I set it down. I don't understand why so many firms hydrostatic pressure treat, afaik the only purpose is to kill salmonella for safe human handling. But humans buy raw meat at the grocery store! Why can't they put a label on there, "this is raw, don't be stupid now."

I'll have to go get some pork ribs. Pork scares me though. Sydney's vet encourages raw feeding and the use of edible bones, but even she's leery of pork.


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## CharismaticMillie

taem said:


> *Why can't they put a label on there, "this is raw, don't be stupid now.*"
> .


My thoughts _exactly!_


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