# Attn; GROOMERS! I need help with a Border Collie shave down...



## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

I offered to go over to my in-laws tonight and help them with their 10 yr old Border Collie "Archie". My father in law has cancer and is pretty much bed ridden, therefore my mother in law spends all her time and energy caring for him (her health is not good either) . When we were there for mother's day on Sunday, I noticed Archie was in pretty bad shape; a very matted long bushy (dirty) coat, and very long nails! Over the last 6-8 months, they've been in and out of hospital with my father in law so I totally understand that this dogs' grooming needs have been slightly neglected. I wished I'd noticed sooner, but to be honest, the dog isn't usually around when I've been there. 
So, I offered to help get the dog feeling a bit more comfortable and they were very accepting of my help. They want him shaved down actually, which may be my only option, based on how much matting has occurred. My biggest concern at this point, is that I don't want to ruin my clippers!!! (sorry if that sounds selfish, but really, they're basically new and were not cheap!) So, do I bath this dog, mats and all, and then get him dry enough to clip him? I guess my plan is to cut a lot of the matting out with shears first, and then bath him somehow (they won't allow this to happen in their bath room, so I'll be outside with a garden hose - something I've never tried before!) then cut the mats out as best I can, then clip his coat down from there depending on how badly matted he is. Would I just go with a 10 blade? I have a 13mm as well, which might be better looking when all is said and done, but I'm not sure if it will work under the mats. 
Anyway, just hoping to get a few pointers with this whole process... I'm pretty good at grooming Rogan by now, but this is a whole other story!
Any help you can provide with be greatly appreciated!!  Maybe I'll take some before and after pics to show you all when I'm done! 
THANKS
h


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## partial2poodles (Feb 11, 2010)

I feel bad for both of you. The clippers will be OK...you'll need 2 blades, both #10's. Take the filthy coat off FIRST. If you are squeamish at all about your clippers being ruined, take him to a groomer (Me! I'll volunteer to help the poor old fellow) Do NOT attempt to whack thru big chunks with scissors. It does no good what so ever, and you will still be ruining the clippers. No soap and water can cleanse the skin while that stinky pelt is attached to the body.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Do not use shears!! I have seen HORRIBLE accidents done by owners trying to cut the mats out of their dogs and take a chunk out of the dogs flesh as well. And like the poster above, although I think your clippers should be okay as long as you give them a throughal cleaning afterwards, if you're uncomfortable just take him to a groomers. Bathing a dog with mats makes the mats tighter, and due to the air not being able to get down to the skin the don't will take a long time to dry and can cause bacteria buildup against the skin.

I'd rather put my clippers on a somewhat dirty dog than a wet dog, rusted blades are the worst. I don't know how some groomers do wet shaves.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

How will this ruin the clippers? Wouldn't it just be the blade?


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

partial2poodles said:


> I feel bad for both of you. The clippers will be OK...you'll need 2 blades, both #10's. Take the filthy coat off FIRST. If you are squeamish at all about your clippers being ruined, take him to a groomer (Me! I'll volunteer to help the poor old fellow) Do NOT attempt to whack thru big chunks with scissors. It does no good what so ever, and you will still be ruining the clippers. No soap and water can cleanse the skin while that stinky pelt is attached to the body.


haha, I'd love to take him to you p2p, but you're a days drive from me at least!! thanks anyway, I think I'll manage! thanks so much for the tips I'll just skip the bath and go straight for the shave! (and I'll leave my shears at home!)

I'm really glad I posted this, THANKS to ALL of you for steering me in the right direction, I'll keep you posted how it turns out!


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

poor you, and poor doggie. you definitely dont want to bathe him with all that matted hair. you'd have a devil of a time getting it clean in the first place and matted hair doesnt dry well. plus a bathe usually makes the matting worse. just make sure the blades you're using are sharp so you do as little puling as possible. honestly though if the matting is so bad that the 10 blade doesnt zip it off with little to no trouble i might suggest taking him to a pro for his safety. 
dont dare try and cut the matting off with scissors. asides from messing up your shears you're likely to cut the dog if the matts are close to the skin. skin sometimes gets pulled up inside the matts like a little tent and even though you think you're cutting flat against the skin you might get a surprise which is a bummer. i have alot of clients that have learned that one  it cuts a nice little circular hole. 

would love to see before and after pictures. good luck and good for you for helping them out!


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

*heather* said:


> I'm really glad I posted this,


Me too This is a good post to learn from. So I am rating it! We don't do that often in this group. So I have been

OH and good luck!!!


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

Olie said:


> How will this ruin the clippers? Wouldn't it just be the blade?


yes, mostly wear and tear on the blade but also dirt and grime getting into the clippers themselves I think...


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

Olie said:


> Me too This is a good post to learn from. So I am rating it! We don't do that often in this group. So I have been
> 
> OH and good luck!!!


woohoo! a rating, that's cool!! THANKS! :flowers:


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

Do you have a force dryer? You could try taking the dryer to the dog while dry to help loosen some of the mats to make it easier for the blade to go through when taking off the dirty/matted coat.

I had to do that with a soft coated wheaten just recently..poor thing was so matted and I didn't want to bathe and wait the entire drying time to get that coat off...I had a difficult time getting the clippers through even using a 10 blade but after seperating some of it and loosening it from the skin a bit with the dryer it saved me a bunch of time and frustration.


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

Aidan said:


> Do you have a force dryer? You could try taking the dryer to the dog while dry to help loosen some of the mats to make it easier for the blade to go through when taking off the dirty/matted coat.
> 
> I had to do that with a soft coated wheaten just recently..poor thing was so matted and I didn't want to bathe and wait the entire drying time to get that coat off...I had a difficult time getting the clippers through even using a 10 blade but after seperating some of it and loosening it from the skin a bit with the dryer it saved me a bunch of time and frustration.


great tip, but I don't have a force dryer yet...


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## partial2poodles (Feb 11, 2010)

I have a new trainee and I asked her to read the question and TELL ME what she would recommend. Her NUMBER ONE suggestion, don't use the really cheap clippers. I have to 100% agree. It will not ruin your clippers at all...In fact, it really wont ruin the blades. I groom these types of dogs all the time. After I am done with the shave down, I blow out the dust particles and put a drop of oil on them. On REALLY bad skin (things that might be contageous) I put the blade in some clorox water and then HV dry it really well. Water doesn't hurt good stainless steel blades at all. If I had your dog here, I could demonstrate wet shavedowns. They are messy but super fast and effective.


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

Yeah when working at Petco all I did pretty much were shave downs..it's also why I hated working there..or at least one of a long list of reasons.

It never hurt my clippers..and i have a back up of each blade so it wasn't a big deal if I needed them sharpened more often because of it.

If you don't have a force dryer you may want to consider seeing if you have a self serve wash place. It might be easier to do the grooming process and they usually have supplies for you as far as shampoo, a dryer, conditioner and that sort of thing...although depending on how picky you are the shampoo at those places I usually don't like very much.

When I was in Dallas my parents wanted their dogs groomed and bathed but didnt want the mess at their house so I ended up going to a self serve place to do it...it was cheap and much easier than doing it in the backyard. 

I'm not sure how much grooming this dog had prior to your dad getting sick but it can be difficult to shave down a dog that does not want anything to do with the process and having a raised table and such might make your job that much easier. It's just a thought.

Good luck!


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

partial2poodles said:


> I have a new trainee and I asked her to read the question and TELL ME what she would recommend. Her NUMBER ONE suggestion, don't use the really cheap clippers. I have to 100% agree. It will not ruin your clippers at all...In fact, it really wont ruin the blades. I groom these types of dogs all the time. After I am done with the shave down, I blow out the dust particles and put a drop of oil on them. On REALLY bad skin (things that might be contageous) I put the blade in some clorox water and then HV dry it really well. Water doesn't hurt good stainless steel blades at all. If I had your dog here, I could demonstrate wet shavedowns. They are messy but super fast and effective.


I have a pretty decent set of Andis (AGP) 2 speed clippers, they were about $140, so not top of the line, but not the walmart crapola either. My blades are in good shape since they've only ever been used on Rogan and he's only 11 months old, with pretty soft fine hair still and I only ever trim him after he's been bathed... 

I would love for you to demonstrate wet shave downs! Or any other grooming technique for that matter, I love grooming, but I really only get to practice on Rogan and he's so easy!! Too bad we don't live closer


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

Aidan said:


> Yeah when working at Petco all I did pretty much were shave downs..it's also why I hated working there..or at least one of a long list of reasons.
> 
> It never hurt my clippers..and i have a back up of each blade so it wasn't a big deal if I needed them sharpened more often because of it.
> 
> ...


The nearest self serve place is over a half hour away... and to be honest, I think this dog might freak out more if he's in a strange place.... he's a sweet old lad, extremely laid back and very loving and friendly! I don't foresee a problem with him and the grooming process... he will probably just love the fact that he's getting attention, he's that type of dog.


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## BFF (Jun 10, 2009)

I don't have any grooming suggestions. I just wanted to say that I think you are doing an absolutely amazing thing. Very thoughtful of you to see how you can help their busy schedule while making one of their best friends more comfortable.

Bless you!


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

It went amazingly well!!!!! I am uploading pictures as we speak  Even after a long shower, I still feel itchy all over! haha! 
ARCHIE WAS SOOOO GOOD!! I was very impressed! He wouldn't let me near his feet, but that's ok, we got a lot accomplished! He seemed so happy after we were done, I haven't seen him that active and bouncy in a long time!! yipee! Seriously, made me happy to see him like that! Mom and Dad had a good giggle when they saw him all shaved down, and must have thanked me a hundred times. Anything I can do to lighten their burden right now is important, and that old Archie deserves to be happy and comfortable too! 

Thanks, for all your support here! I greatly appreciate it!!


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## grooming goddess (May 2, 2010)

[Would I just go with a 10 blade? I have a 13mm as well, which might be better looking when all is said and done, but I'm not sure if it will work under the mats.]


Whoa! A 10 blade is WAY too short! You will do permanent damage to the coat not to mention the fact that you will be leaving this dog with no protective insulation to help ward off a heat stroke. Sunburn is a huge concern with a dog that short also.
Here is the method~
1. bathe dog matts and all
2. condition the dog well (I like Natures specialties EZ Shed or EZ Dematt)
3. rinse, rinse, rinse til you think your arms might fall off
4. dry dog completely with a high velocity dryer
5. shave with the grain of the hair with no shorter than a 7F blade


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

I had already started when we realised we hadn't taken any before pictures, so my daughter took one from the side I hadn't really touched yet! 
















during... 








it came off in chunks! and there was a lot of 'stuff' trapped under there, poor boy, was pretty gross... and dusty, and smelly!


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

grooming goddess said:


> [Would I just go with a 10 blade? I have a 13mm as well, which might be better looking when all is said and done, but I'm not sure if it will work under the mats.]
> 
> 
> Whoa! A 10 blade is WAY too short! You will do permanent damage to the coat not to mention the fact that you will be leaving this dog with no protective insulation to help ward off a heat stroke. Sunburn is a huge concern with a dog that short also.
> ...


well, you were too late  we did it with the #10 with the grain of the hair 
... I cautioned them strongly about sunburn... and to keep him out of the heat... remember we're in Canada, it's not that warm here these days ... I normally would NEVER do this to a dog, I would try to save the coat and wash and dematt etc... this dog was beyond saving the coat, and after all, it's hair, it will grow back right?


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## Cameo (Feb 5, 2010)

you look like a real PRO peeling that onion 

Looks like you did a pretty good job ^5

That coat will grow back just fine unless the dog has some health issues that would affect coat growth (such as thyroid or adrenal issues).


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

here's a couple more... we were totally brain dead and didn't get a full after shot! 









don't mind me in this pic, I'm mid-blink or something, lol I just love how Archie's got his head high in the air all proud and feeling mighty good about himself and all these women fussing over him!! what a good boy! 



















Anyway, he's going to smell a lot better that's for sure!! and I will teach them how to maintain the coat once it comes back in, heck, I may even just do it myself!


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

Cameo said:


> you look like a real PRO peeling that onion
> 
> Looks like you did a pretty good job ^5
> 
> That coat will grow back just fine unless the dog has some health issues that would affect coat growth (such as thyroid or adrenal issues).


Awe thanks Cameo!! That means a lot!! he won't win any beauty pageants that for darn sure!! ...but he'll feel better and be easier to live with and take care of  and no, he has no health issues other then some arthritis.


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## BFF (Jun 10, 2009)

Good Job!!! He looks so thankful you saved him from that mess. Yes, he will need to be careful in the sun, but this is SO much better. It won't be long until he has some hair growing back in.

Cracks me up that in one photo, it looks like he has a tu tu on!


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

BFF said:


> Cracks me up that in one photo, it looks like he has a tu tu on!


I KNOW!! We were letting him have breaks in between sections etc... we thought he looked like a hula dancer!


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

From what I can tell you did a really smooth shave! Great job! Did he get a bath too?


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

grooming goddess said:


> [Would I just go with a 10 blade? I have a 13mm as well, which might be better looking when all is said and done, but I'm not sure if it will work under the mats.]
> 
> 
> Whoa! A 10 blade is WAY too short! You will do permanent damage to the coat not to mention the fact that you will be leaving this dog with no protective insulation to help ward off a heat stroke. Sunburn is a huge concern with a dog that short also.
> ...


WTH are you talking about? Being a groomer I'm sure you shave poodles with a 10 blade all of the time. I realize this is a double coated breed but come on! Show poodles in continental are done either with a 40 or 30 blade. That's surgical. I think you are way overexaggerating and I'm glad she didn't see this before she went and shaved that poor dog. I doubt a 7 would have even made it through that mess.


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

KPoos said:


> WTH are you talking about? Being a groomer I'm sure you shave poodles with a 10 blade all of the time. I realize this is a double coated breed but come on! Show poodles in continental are done either with a 40 or 30 blade. That's surgical. I think you are way overexaggerating and I'm glad she didn't see this before she went and shaved that poor dog. I doubt a 7 would have even made it through that mess.



I was thinking the same thing but wasn't going to say anything. To each there own I suppose. I personally do a lot of my SOA's with a 7 against the grain for larger dogs. I don't notice any super damaged hair on my dog's faces and such and they are shaved with blades shorter than a 10, like you mentioned. Different hair though. 

I'm sorry but a dog who is matted SHOULD be shaved with whatever blade goes through the hair the easiest. If that happens to be a 10 blade then so be it. Bathing a dog with who is as matted as it looks like this one was is not going to get him clean down at the skin level, especialy since she didn't have an HV dryer. You end up wasting a lot of time and energy and you still have to rebathe the dog after the shave. All to save a little hair and it seems to me that you might just be doing the dog a disservice in doing so. Plus running the risk of stressing a 10yr old dog... 

Also, you CANNOT permanent damage to a coat with one shave down. Hair grows, sheds, and re-grows all the the time. The hair growing back in *may* be damaged but will shed out in time and eventually the coat will right itself (assuming you even notice a difference in the first place) in the absence of any underlying health conditions in which case grooming is the least of the dog's worries. 
Repeated shaving, even with longer blades, *can* result in a coat that stops growing back. I would call that permanent damage but it's not something that even happens to most dogs. 

Another thing, I don't know where this dog lives but here in Fla I get tired of getting clients who come to me with the bullcrap story about how a groomer told them shaving their dog would hurt him. I have a new one this week, with four aussies in fact. She was told but this groomer that she would not shave the dog down b/c it was bad for it. The lady wants the dog shaved down b/c she has five of them (why is a good question) and she can't keep up with the hair between whats actually on the dogs and what ends up in her carpets. It doesn't hurt them and in this humidity it kind of helps. Yup, your dog sure CAN get sunburned but not much else. Any advantage to keeping a coat VS shaving it short (maybe not so short as a 10 blade though) in the dog's ability to regulate their body temp is minimal. I have yet to see a shaved down dog overheat and frankly, even here in the sunshine state, I have not seen any sunburned dogs that weren't white/very light in color, or very very thin haired. Even those have been few and far between. Do I like doing shave downs? Not really, I'm a scissor type of person. Do I do them anyway to make my clients and their owners happy? Yes and I try hard not to complain about it. 
Now throw an unmatted shih tzu on my table and ask me to do a 5 all over and I will surely argue... lol ironic isn't it. I do my VERY best to talk small dog owners (with the exception of POMS) OUT of shave downs and into short guard combs. Labs and goldens... It is easier not to argue and just buzz them.


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

Good job heather  Bet he feels better!!


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

WonderPup said:


> Labs and goldens... It is easier not to argue and just buzz them.


$$$ for an easy groom I always say!


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

My poodles get sunburn on their noses when they get their faces shaved on a 15. I mean I get a sunburn if I don't wear sunscreen because I have skin! Anything with skin exposed to the sun can get sunburn. If that is the most of your worries, you are golden because there's a little thing called sunscreen. I have never heard of wetting down a dog that's that matted in that condition unless you are going to sit there and try to rake through the hair and save some of it. If you are doing a shave down, then get started and don't give the dog grief by trying to cut through and comb through mats you know? I'm sure it's the most uncomfortable thing in the world to be matted that way and then to be wet so that it weighs it down, HV dried, (blows the matted hair all which way) and then an attempt to comb out...ha I'd never put a dog through that mess.


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

Well I do think that a 10 blade on a double coated dog IS much shorter than I'd ever want to do too. A 10 on any other dog is a different story, we're not talking about poodles here!!! If I HAVE to shave a double coated dog down, it goes no shorter than a 7F. I'd avoid it at all costs though... Shaving a double coated dog is a last resort for me. And YES wet shaving is definitely the way to go! 

NOW, in saying all of that, you had limited resources and equipment, so you did a great job with what you had!!! I would also NEVER recommend trying the wet shave technique if you don't have re-circulating bathing system and a HV dryer. You NEED both those to be able to use the wet shave method! And you only had a garden hose available, so you most certainly did the good thing NOT going with that method or you'd have made it all much worse!! lol And I don't know if you had any blades longer than a 10 anyway? It was nice of you to offer to do the groom for them as it was, I wouldn't expect you to go and buy a new blade just to do him with!!! 

So yes, I agree with GG that in any other circumstance I'd not like to see a double coated dog done shorter than a 7F, and that a matted dog is best done with the wet shaving technique (done properly it does NOT tighten the mats up nor rust your blades! It slicks those mats off and keeps your blades cool!!!) but for what you had for an impromptu groom; you did good.


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

Thanks, a lot of interesting stuff here, I've learned a lot. ... The person who mainly takes care of Archie is my 36yr old sister in law (she's the one in the pink in the pics who didn't leave Archie's side the whole time I was working on him) she lives at home and always will; she's mentally challenged. This dog is her baby. I will be buying her some proper grooming tools and helping her keep up with the coat as it grows out. This was a one time thing, I wouldn't expect that we'll need to do it again, I completely disagree with shaving down long double coated breeds, but this was an exception. IMO complete shave downs are almost always due to owners negligence and neglect and I would be embarrassed if I ever brought a double coated breed to a groomer that needed to be shaved down... shame on those owners that let it get that bad... my inlaws have limited resources and are going through some pretty rough stuff and Archie got lost in the shuffle, won't happen again, I'm on it! 

I'm going back in a few days to help with the bath, and put some ear cleaner in his ears ... we were losing sunlight and it was getting cold so we didn't get finished. His nails are probably going to have to be done by a vet the next time he goes in, and maybe under sedation, he was not into me touching his feet at all! He had a foot injury a while back and I'm sure that's part of his issue. 

I came home and looked at my Rogan and just thanked God for how gorgeous and CLEAN and lovely he is!! He's so fun to groom and easy on the table, letting me just do whatever I want to him, handing over his feet so I can tickle him between his toes with the clipper and he barely moves... love love love it!! Glad I've taken the time during this first year of his life to get him accustomed to being handled and pruned and prodded. Makes me happy to comb through those gorgeous red curls every day and prevent him ever from getting anywhere close to that point! 

sorry, didn't mean to write a novel here! Lol Thanks again for all the help


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

I think you did a great job. I agree with the others about not wanting to shave down a doublecoated dog but it looks like in this case you didn't have much of a choice.

As long as they are aware of the issue with getting sunburned and try to avoid it I think he will be fine.

There are some double-coated dogs that do not grow back properly..if you notice this being the case a vet check-up is probably recommended. As already mentioned it's usually the result of an underlying condition.

I'm sure that dog feels much better and is much happier. 


I've never done wet shaving. What is involved? How is it done?


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

*heather* said:


> He seemed so happy after we were done, I haven't seen him that active and bouncy in a long time!! yipee! Seriously, made me happy to see him like that!


*YES!!!!! *That's what I was looking for!!!!! The entire reason this project was conducted - the comfort of the dog!  I'm sure his matted hair was pulling and pinching and it made it uncomfortable to be active and bouncy - Now he can move freely, without pain!! God bless you, heather, for helping this poor old guy (and your parents)!! The coat will grow back eventually and as long as you and other family members will keep on top of the situation, he'll never have to get into that condition again! YOU ROCK!!! :rockon:


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## first poodle (Jan 12, 2010)

Heather - your pics reminded me soooo much of my daughter's farm dog and his seasonal "shaves". He gets the odd brushing but always seems to have a ton of mats by spring so he gets a shave. She uses her cattle clippers and it seems to work. Her past experience is clipping horses and a persian cat that doesn't groom herself. Their dog Tucker appreciates his shave just as Archie did and seemed to understand that the process was worth the result. Good work. P.S. my cousin sends her border collie in to a groomer each spring for a clip down as well. They do get a very heavy winter coat up here that takes a lot of brushing if you don't want a matting problem in the spring when it tries to come out.


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## first poodle (Jan 12, 2010)

I thought I should also mention that I've never had to clip my Border Collie but that's because I'm lazy about that heavy brushing and send her to the groomer with the spoo 4 times a year!!!


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Wow what a wonderful job Heather!! Thanks for posting pictures.


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

Aidan said:


> I've never done wet shaving. What is involved? How is it done?


A matted gross dog will invariably have to be shaved with a 7F or 10 blade, and it'll generally wreak havoc on your blades with the dirt and grit being ground into them. Bring on wet shaving.

Using a recirculating bathing system (a system that does what it sounds like, and the water is continually recirculated over the dog; it cleans far more effectively and efficiently than hand scrubbing, as well as meaning you don't need to scrub and tighten the mats yet still getting them clean) you get the dog THOROUGHLY shampooed. Generally at least twice. Yes it takes a bit to get the skin soaked through mats, but that's why your'e using a recirculating system cos it pumps and pumps that soapy water under the mats.

Now there's a few options you can take, you can condition them now too, you can go right to shaving them now, or you can rinse them a bit and then shave. Personally I have done a very very light rinse to get rid of any bubbles but not worrying about getting rid of all the shampoo.
Then the dog comes out onto the table (or if you can clip in the bath, leave them there) and standing on a towel, you clip them off. No rubbing with the towel (I squeeze some water out, but otherwise they're literally still dripping wet) You can usually get a 4F under those wet soapy mats, sometimes you have to go down to a 5F too. The dripping wet mats land on the towel, to be scooped up and dumped. 

The dog can then have another quick bath & proper rinse, and just carry on drying and finishing as per normal; but they have a lot more hair left and your clippers are much happier (the wet coat also keeps the blades cool; bonus for a matted shave down!) You obviously need to dry and oil your blades afterwards, but I've never had a problem with rusting or anything.

Note that it's NOT like trying to shave damp hair. Damp shorter hair clogs up blades like nothing else. Dripping wet mats come slipping off with no problem. Honestly!

http://www.poodleforum.com/7-general-off-topic-chat/5748-guess-breed-game-21.html there's a husky on that page that I wet-shaved, there's pics of the wet shave itself on the following page too.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Man FD I just don't think I could do that x_x I'd be really afraid to screw up my clippers and blades.


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

I would be up for trying that next time I get a really matted dog in the shop. I don't have a recirculating bathing system though but I wonder if it could still work.

I saw Cameo post something awhile ago about making your own from parts you buy at a hardware store and a pump online but I would have no idea how to put something like that together.

The husky came out beautiful. Considering how difficult those coats are to get even and smooth she looks fantastic and i'm sure the owner was thrilled.


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## Mister (Sep 10, 2008)

Whoever posted to bathe mats and all is not correct imo. Why would you bathe a dog with mats that are skin tight? It makes them tighter for 1 and creates a huge mess and shaving a wet dog is not fun....getting a dog dry comepletely after bathing it with mats is a mess and makes things so much more difficult on you.

If a dog is matted it gets shaved down then bathed where i used to work.

Oh and to the OP great job on shaving that old guy! Im sure he feels like a million bucks and looks amazing! On an old dog like that its easier to just shave them down as fast as possible (giving breaks if necessary) and then bathe and let em air dry lol. No sense putting an old dog threw a bunch of brushing and stress if you dont have to. My 15 year old dog doesnt tolerate grooming that long anymore so i run over her with an E comb do light scissoring and voila she is done and it only took about 15 mins.


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

he looks much better. i'm so so so against shaving collies/aussies (i see it done all the time drives me nuts) but there's cases like this where he NEEDED it done. 

good job!


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

Mister said:


> Whoever posted to bathe mats and all is not correct imo. Why would you bathe a dog with mats that are skin tight? It makes them tighter for 1 and creates a huge mess and shaving a wet dog is not fun...
> 
> On an old dog like that its easier to just shave them down as fast as possible (giving breaks if necessary) and then bathe and let em air dry lol. No sense putting an old dog threw a bunch of brushing and stress if you dont have to. My 15 year old dog doesnt tolerate grooming that long anymore so i run over her with an E comb do light scissoring and voila she is done and it only took about 15 mins.


totally agree  thanks


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

The wet shaving method has been around for awhile. I don't think groomers would be doing it if they were tearing up the blades and clippers after every few grooms.

I've heard it mentioned on groomers.net and seen amazing results with it but never attempted it myself..although I kind of want to if I can ever get a recirculating bathing system.

At Petco they always shaved dogs before bathing as well..and i remember having to send my blades out it seemed like way too often to be sharpened..it was a pain..i ended up ordering another set of blades just because of the hassle. I believe it was all the dirt and such getting into the blades that was doing the damage.

Now I rarely ever shave a dirty dog. I always bathe them first and then shave down if it's what im going to do anyway..the life of my blades has been extended by quite a bit. I don't get them sharpened nearly as often.

I also like how smooth the Husky came out. We had a husky come in and the groomer couldnt get a 7 through it. She eventually got the dog shaved but he looked horrible..choppy..uneven..and it took forever. I imagine if she knew about the wet shaving process it could have possibly been avoided.


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

I'm sorry Mister, but pre-shaving dogs before a bath, in a grooming salon, is fairly old fashioned now days. I'm not tlaking about this instance with the collie, as I think a good job was done with him!!! I'm talking about in a salon now.

Bathing a dog does NOT tighten the knots up with the equipment we have now days. It USED to; with old fashioned hand scrubbing and only lil fluff dryers to dry them, it was NECESSARY to pre-shave and brush out every dog that walked through the door. Unfortunately because it is so ingrained in so many people that it is necessary to do it this way, it continues to be taught that it's necessary to pre-shave everything, when in reality it isn't! The only dogs I pre-shave are the really really hairy dogs that are being shaved short anyway. In particular the cockers that aren't knotted, but are hairy and getting shaved down really short cos cocker coats are an ass to dry anyway so I pre-shave them before the bath. But all the lil dogs (poodles, bichons, maltese, shih and the various crosses of them all) go straight into the bath without any brushing or clipper work done on them at all. A good shampoo and HV and THEN I set to work on grooming them. Matted dogs go straight into the tub too, for a wet shave.

Check out petgroomerforums for more info on wet shaving and bathing dogs first etc etc and other testimonials to it too if you don't believe me


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

wet shaving is becoming quite popular with horses as well (and we clip against the grain  )


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## Cameo (Feb 5, 2010)

A wet shave is great when the mats are really tight and you'd have to go REALLY short otherwise. Plus, the blade doesn't heat up if your working on a wet coat. 

I rarely ever preshave a dog. You'd really be surprised how easily the matting brushes out when the coat is clean and properly set up. The HV dryer actually helps to loosen up tightly matted areas, which makes brushing out A LOT easier. Bathing itself, doesn't tighten mats, but letting the coat cage dry will make them tighten up.


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## Cameo (Feb 5, 2010)

Making your own recirculating bathing system is EASY as 1 2 3

I'll try to attach pics, but what I did was, bought a 1/6 hp Water Ace brand utility pump, a 6' leader water hose, and a nozzle from a watering wand. Screwed on the hose and the nozzle and put some nylon screen on the bottom of the pump (or you can slide a panty hose or stocking on it) and it was ready to bath. It cost me around $65 to make my own and it's been running great for nearly 2 years.


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## partial2poodles (Feb 11, 2010)

I also made my own recirculator but I hated it so much, I quit using it after a week. It tipped over cause the dog kept knocking into it.

I think its the FOREVER STAINLESS company that makes this really nice bathtub that has its own "well" that the pump sit in but the water circulated in the stainless tub. 

My tub is a human bathtub/shower. It does not have a thingy that you flip up to make the water stay IN.....the water always drains. I use one of those flat rubbery things over the drain grate when I have to do a medical soak...but I also have to put a FULL gallon of heavy shampoo on that thing to hold it down tight against the grate.


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## Cameo (Feb 5, 2010)

P2P, I have a tub grate to keep the dogs up out of the water and my recirc sits down in the tub, I run some water into it and a couple squirts of shampoo and go at it! The dogs are up out of the water and I can get their feet rinsed clean and leave no shampoo residue  I really LOVE having a recirculating bather, especially for the big and/or hairy dogs. Saves shampoo, is VERY fast bathing and rinsing, and gets them super clean!

Over time (when I worked in another place where we had no grate), I've found that dogs who's feet are not rinsed clean, will lick and chew their feet. When I opened my salon, I got a grate (raised platform) for the dogs to stand on and I have only a few feet-lickers (know it's not from not getting their feet clean). When working at the other salon, we had TONS of dogs that licked and chewed their feet and I don't know if there is any correlation or not, but like I said, I have very few that come in to my salon on a regular basis.


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## Reesmom (Feb 4, 2010)

I have to put my 2 cents in here, because I was really skeptical of the wet shaving method until I got a dog in that was so matted I decided to try it. I don't know how I would have done it any other way, and it took half the time. I was much easier on the dog. His feet were so tight the circulation was being effected. I've since done it on several dogs and I love it. 

Awesome job on the BC. He has to feel better!!!


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## Mister (Sep 10, 2008)

I would never wet shave a dog and drying even with ahigh velocity drier would take too long with a heaviliy matted dog (im talking when you shave its like shearing a sheep). Why not just shave before the bath since they are tight before and if they are so matted the skin isnt really exposed and the bath isnt doing much good. Im not about to try to save any hair on that dog except maybe the tail or some hair on the head or manybe the ears. Its not the dogs fault the owners didnt brush it so im not putting the dog through the time and pain it takes to dematt and brush through all of that. Call me crazy but in my head thats tyhe logical way to do it and i might be old fashioned in that sense but it saves a lot of time and saves the dog from not feeling dicomfort from the tugging and dematting.


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## Cameo (Feb 5, 2010)

Mister said:


> I would never wet shave a dog and drying even with ahigh velocity drier would take too long with a heaviliy matted dog (im talking when you shave its like shearing a sheep). Why not just shave before the bath since they are tight before and if they are so matted the skin isnt really exposed and the bath isnt doing much good. Im not about to try to save any hair on that dog except maybe the tail or some hair on the head or manybe the ears. Its not the dogs fault the owners didnt brush it so im not putting the dog through the time and pain it takes to dematt and brush through all of that. Call me crazy but in my head thats tyhe logical way to do it and i might be old fashioned in that sense but it saves a lot of time and saves the dog from not feeling dicomfort from the tugging and dematting.


Mister, it's not always about saving hair, sometimes it's about saving the DOG'S SKIN! A wet coat is a heavy coat and when mats are weighed down, they pull AWAY from the skin and it makes it much safer to get the blade under it (less chance of nicking in tight spots). Think about those areas that are prone to nicks and cuts being casted with mats and now imagine actually being able to get a blade under it  Not to mention, a wet coat is MUCH less prone to irritation from close clippering, as well as, the blade running thru it stays cooler. When you are working on a LARGE dog, that is worth it right there! 

Never say never  As a groomer, we must be open to trying all the methods available in order to be the MOST HUMANE, for the pet's sake. Wet shaving is just another trick in our arsenal. I may not use it EVERY time I get a pelted dog, but there are times when it's really the best choice. As for getting the dog clean, you can always run them back thru the wash after, if you feel it didn't get clean the first time around.

As a professional, I want my passion to reflect in the work I produce and while sometimes "peeling the onion" is unavoidable, it is preferable (for ME) to make the dog looks as nice as it can look given the situation because they are a reflection of my reputation. If it's within my capabilities to make a pelted dog look a bit prettier, you better believe I'm going to do whatever it takes (within reason) as long as it's not inhumane.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Will the water ruin the clippers? Will it rust the blades? These are my worries. I've done only slightly damp dogs because they just would NOT come dry and my blades rusted, even oiling and using a force dryer on them after and cleaning the hair out.


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## Reesmom (Feb 4, 2010)

When you are done oil your blades good and they are fine. I spray mine really good with coolant and then oil for extra protection when I was done. No problem. My clippers were fine. It can be messy, but is saves so much stress on the dog and time also. Your blades don't get hot either. 

The dog should be rinsed, but dripping wet. On one I did I had to rewet the last parts I did. I don't know what shape his legs would have been in if I'd done it dry. The matts peeled off like a sock. I've read some articles that say it really does a number on your blades, but I don't think so. Thats been 2 months ago and I'm still using that blade. That is why you bathe the dog. You want to get the skin clean. Don't worry about the coat.


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## partial2poodles (Feb 11, 2010)

Reesemom, I do my wet shves different than you. I make them very lubricated either with shampoo OR conditioner. If I get to an area that is sorta just wet, but not slippery enough, I put a squirt of diluted shampoo down at the skin....I use it like shaving cream. Once its all off, I shampoo again and use my rubber curry so as to not scrape the skin and make it too pink. I use enough pressure to slough off all the dead skin cells....I use whatever each dog needs.


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

I've never had a problem with my blades either, I give them a blast with the HV and oil them again of course, but I've never had a problem with rusting or anything. I can say that it's rather different to doing a damp dog too, damp unmatted hair clogs, WET matted hair slips off, and no problem for the blades.

Go easy on the coolant reesmom, check out some of the articles on here for the reasons why: The Blade Guyz


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## Cameo (Feb 5, 2010)

GOOD quality blades shouldn't rust, but I've never used the off brands (top performance/master groomer, etc), but the Buttercut, Laube, Wahl, and Andis blades I use have never rusted from wet shaving. I feel it's actually EASIER on your blades than clippering thru dirty coat. Just make sure to dry them off and oil them well after your are finished.


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## Reesmom (Feb 4, 2010)

partial2poodles said:


> Reesemom, I do my wet shves different than you. I make them very lubricated either with shampoo OR conditioner. If I get to an area that is sorta just wet, but not slippery enough, I put a squirt of diluted shampoo down at the skin....I use it like shaving cream. Once its all off, I shampoo again and use my rubber curry so as to not scrape the skin and make it too pink. I use enough pressure to slough off all the dead skin cells....I use whatever each dog needs.


I'll have to try that. I watched a video of the lady that supposedly started wet shaving and just followed her instructions. I'll give your way a try. 

Thanks FD. Great articles.


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