# Wolf-dog hybrids



## sophie anne (Feb 17, 2015)

Four of my friends from high school and college have recently acquired "wolfdogs," which are some mixture of a dog (generally a husky type) and a wolf. Two of them have surrendered the dog after their cute puppy turned into a difficult and unpredictable semi-wild animal.

One of them got an older wolfdog, named Dauntless, and it seems to be working out alright. The most recent one is just an 8-week-old puppy now, and is the first independently owned pet of a young woman that will be traveling and living in apartments for the foreseeable future (so we can unfortunately guess how this story will end, although of course I hope I'm wrong). "Denali" is very cute.









What are your thoughts on wolf-dog hybrids?


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## Naira (Jan 9, 2015)

My thoughts? Only extremely skilled people knowledgeable in dog behavior should own them. These are not dogs that aim to please people, want to roll over for a treat or play fetch. Thus they are not suitable for the average dog owner. In the hands of the wrong people, it's downright dangerous and irresponsible.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

ugh. every behaviorist/trainer/trainer wanna be i have ever read has tried to discourage this. what is it about the human ego that makes people who would have something of a problem with a regular but bumptious dog (and that's the vast majority of us) think they can handle a hybrid of this kind?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Denali is cute now but shouldn't exist! Sadly your expectation that it won't end well is probably true. This is just plain stupid and dangerous. I think the people who breed/greed them are just tapping into our general social notions that bigger and tougher is better.


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

My gut instinct about this breeding is also that it is very wrong. As Naira said, there are so few people who can care for this type of dog properly. The novelty of the dog I think tends to attract the type of owner that only wants it to feed a piece of their fragile ego. Then the poor animal gets discarded as soon as it becomes inconvenient, because they didn't truly want the animal. I question the ethics of creating this crossbreed.

That said, I know someone who owns a wolf dog and has for several years. She got him as an adult from a rescue type situation. She is the type of owner that should have this dog. She researched the behavior and has set up his environment to accommodate his needs. She is also a dog savvy owner. She does a great job with him, but he wouldn't be my cup of tea- he is very different. I would bet most of these wolf dogs do not wind up in a home for very long.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I agree with Naira 100%. Very unsuitable as pets. I once saw a full grown wolf hybrid alone in a car with a baby in her car seat, while the owner/dad was pumping gas. I commented, "That's a big dog" and he was so proud to tell me it was a wolf hybrid. That was years ago and it still bothers me. Thumbs down to wild animal hybrids!


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Our neighbor had one. He was husky/wolf and HUGE!!!! His name was Mojo. He LOVED me for some reason and when he saw me she couldn't control him. He would come running across the street dragging her not he leash and wiggle and whine till I petted him. 

I looked out one day and he was chasing the UPS man. Sounded very vicious. I just said his name and he came running. 

Other than that I never saw him be mean. He lived to be about 14.

But he is the only nice one I have seen.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

The wolf in these hybrids always comes through. Wolves are not meant to be human companions. I think it is foolish and arrogant to own them as pets.


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## Khaleesiandthepoms (Feb 25, 2014)

I've got a lot of experience with wolf hybrids and my opinion remains the same, they aren't suitable as pets. Their minds and natures of dog and wolf are often at war with each other and it makes for a very confused animal. We owned one when I was about 12, a family gave us a young "husky" they were giving away for free, Rainer was very tall, lanky, yellow eyed and never stopped moving, pacing about and always watching, now we'd never had any problems with aggression and could even pet him whenever but he didn't seem to care much for it one way or the other but Rainer was very...off. We could never leave for more than an hour, Rainer chewed his way out of crates, metal and plastic in no time, through household doors, jumped out of windows of glass to go explore the neighborhood, he killed the neighbors rabbits, chickens and possibly a neighborhood cat that had gone missing. No one outside of the family could touch him he'd run and pace hoping they'd go away despite hundreds of hours of socialization. We are a pretty dog saavy family and even pulled together every resource we could to get Rainer happy and under control, even running him several miles a day, but it didn't help, a wild animal is never happy in a home that asks him to do everything against his nature. He continued to get out and destroy the house, drywall, barbed wire, launch himself through closed windows... I figured it out after some research at the library, we contacted a wolf rescue and Rainer lived out his days amongst other wolf hybrids until he died of old age there, he was happier being wild, but not completely because it seemed like the dog in him sometimes wanted people, we were told that was typical and wolf-dogs are often abandoned when folks figure out their needs are very difficult to meet because of their dueling natures. I wish no one was allowed to breed the two together, even with happy ending of no major incidents these guys are often unhappy, keeping them in the home is us asking them not to hunt and kill in the home or territory and that's what they do and often the family cat or dog is a victim, ask them not to roam when a wolf does so for hours and many miles a day, we ask them not to destroy in an effort to trek their territory and we ask them not to fight us physically with the outset of sexual maturity and they usually do that as well.


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## Drala (Aug 14, 2014)

Fortunately I suspect that we poodle owners do not overlap much with the folks who are drawn to own these poor creatures


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## sophie anne (Feb 17, 2015)

Drala said:


> Fortunately I suspect that we poodle owners do not overlap much with the folks who are drawn to own these poor creatures


I wish that nobody thought that they were a good idea, honestly! Really, I don't see the appeal, and I agree with Lily cd re, Denali should not exist (he was bought from a breeder). It should be illegal to sell wolfdogs, period. To me, it's more wrong than even puppy-milling, because at least puppy mills are producing _domestic dogs_!!! If one litter accidentally happened (I really don't know how, it doesn't seem like it would happen easily) that's one thing but making them on purpose is sad for all of the very good reasons others have stated.

Denali's "mom" is a college friend of mine, and texted me that she wants to have a playdate with Denali and Ari. Ummmmmmmm, no. Ari is vaguely rabbit-sized and shaped...

Even huskies, often the dog component of wolfdogs, are not particularly easy dogs for first-timers or people without knowledge of how to work with independently-spirited dogs. Not that any of the people buying wolfdogs from breeders take the time to learn and understand that, huh?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

It actually makes me very sad that these animals are sold to people. They shouldn't exist, except for a few " natural " encounters. We are breeding these dogs and wolf for pure profit, and not thinking of their well being. The wolf is a beautiful animal and it belongs in the wild. i wonder how anyone in their right mind could think having such an animal live a dog life would be happy. Humans are selfish.


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## Khaleesiandthepoms (Feb 25, 2014)

sophie anne said:


> I wish that nobody thought that they were a good idea, honestly! Really, I don't see the appeal, and I agree with Lily cd re, Denali should not exist (he was bought from a breeder). It should be illegal to sell wolfdogs, period. To me, it's more wrong than even puppy-milling, because at least puppy mills are producing _domestic dogs_!!! If one litter accidentally happened (I really don't know how, it doesn't seem like it would happen easily) that's one thing but making them on purpose is sad for all of the very good reasons others have stated.
> 
> Denali's "mom" is a college friend of mine, and texted me that she wants to have a playdate with Denali and Ari. Ummmmmmmm, no. Ari is vaguely rabbit-sized and shaped...
> 
> Even huskies, often the dog component of wolfdogs, are not particularly easy dogs for first-timers or people without knowledge of how to work with independently-spirited dogs. Not that any of the people buying wolfdogs from breeders take the time to learn and understand that, huh?


Crazy thing is I hear a lot of the reason why people breed hybrids as wolfxhusky has the best dna compatibility of breeding their "closest relative" which is kind of a hilarious red flag that they know nothing about genetics is huskies are very far removed from wolves in fact Pekingese may be the closest related to wolves, and the second reason I hear a lot is the combination of wolf/husky makes for a more trainable companion! Huskies are notorious hard work for couch potato owners or busy people or first time owners. Mass destruction, prey drive and roaming are common problems with huskies, they need massive amounts of activity, times that by 100 and you've got a typical wolf hybrid. I wish more folks would do the work with huskies in the home than go out and get a wolfdog and have an even more major problem. We are a husky family of 20 years, well my dad is and huskies are easy compared to typical wolf hybrids. 
I don't even groom them and I take on the nastiest, most difficult grooming shop reject dogs out there. I'm not afraid of them but I'm a dog groomer and they aren't dogs and my liability in any accident with a wolf is going to be astronomical and my insurance company would likely not help in any incident, people ask me a lot about grooming their hybrid on referrals for difficult dogs, answer is always nope. I'm sure someone soon will testify to never having a problem with a wolfdog they know and that's the scary part, crazy we'd still think twice about stepping into a cage with a tiger who's been mannerable and grown up in a zoo his whole life but someone tells ya the wolfdog they know has never been mean and they forget a large part of the animal's DNA is a wild animal. It really bothers me. I don't understand this obsession some have with controlling wild animals to boost their egos especially when experts in wolves have said repeatedly its a terrible idea and the only one happy in a wolfdog relationship is the human with the huge ego and usually that happiness doesn't last.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

They breed them up here in the Rockies...they take the pups away from the mom young and bottle-feed them; the new owners take the pups home at 2 or 3 weeks old and hand raise them so as to socialize them to humans. They are advertised as always needing to be confined. I don't know WHY anyone would want one, but they are undeniable beautiful for sure. Very pricey too. But so sad.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

I have seen quite a few dog/wolf hybrids (or so claimed by their owners) over the years. None of them had happy lives. The hybrids constantly gave off signs that any animal behaviorist would recognize as stress. I would be much more comfortable dealing with a wild wolf than a dog/wolf hybrid. Why? Because you know what you are dealing with when you deal with a wolf.


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## Khaleesiandthepoms (Feb 25, 2014)

Indiana said:


> They breed them up here in the Rockies...they take the pups away from the mom young and bottle-feed them; the new owners take the pups home at 2 or 3 weeks old and hand raise them so as to socialize them to humans. They are advertised as always needing to be confined. I don't know WHY anyone would want one, but they are undeniable beautiful for sure. Very pricey too. But so sad.


I've heard of this method to curb shyness and some say it helps sometimes with antisocial behavior but never with aggression as aggression usually happens at the onset of sexual maturity as just a normal wolf behavior to challenge and push each others buttons, people usually end up badly hurt in trying to "establish boundaries" with their hybrid at that age.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

*Wild Dogs and Animals.*

There are wild dogs in many countries. There are wolves in some. each breed is different. Even wolves from North America are different in behavior to wolves in Asia. Dingos (Australian Wild Dogs) are the remnants of domestic dogs brought to Australia by emigrants from Indonesia up to 50,000 years ago. They can be domesticated somewhat but their behavior is that of a wild dog. They, like wolves, do not bark. They do howl.

There is an observed fascination some people have with wild and dangerous animals. People have attempted to domesticate African Plains Lions, Cougars, Alligators, Gorillas and wolves with varying results. Many have been attacked and some killed by their pets. This may explain why some people will chose known dangerous breeds of domestic dogs as pets.

Breeding wolves with domestic dogs? Well I would expect the same varying results that are the result of breeding poodles with other breeds. Anything from a fairly pure poodle and a pure other breed to a complete mess of a cross breed. Some will be darlings of their owners and cute as hell. Is it right or wrong? Well! once, homosexuality was a crime. Now its likely to become required social behavior.

I have no objections to anyone keeping any kind of pet. Lion, Tiger, Gorilla or Pit Bull. As long as they keep their pet safe and keep us all safe from it.
Eric:angel2:


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Of course the bad news is most most "wolf hybrids" aren't thus they will not accept them in sanctuaries and once tagged as having wolf they are unacceptable to most shelters. True wolf hybrids are a horrid idea and the poor animals suffer for mans foibles. 

The fake wolf hybrids which can make good pets make others think all "wolf hybrids" are good pets and they go get one without the slightest idea what they could be getting. 
Sigh they are illegal in many places but that doesn't stop folks who need the ego boost. They find ways around the rules.


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## Khaleesiandthepoms (Feb 25, 2014)

ericwd9 said:


> There are wild dogs in many countries. There are wolves in some. each breed is different. Even wolves from North America are different in behavior to wolves in Asia. Dingos (Australian Wild Dogs) are the remnants of domestic dogs brought to Australia by emigrants from Indonesia up to 50,000 years ago. They can be domesticated somewhat but their behavior is that of a wild dog. They, like wolves, do not bark. They do howl.
> 
> There is an observed fascination some people have with wild and dangerous animals. People have attempted to domesticate African Plains Lions, Cougars, Alligators, Gorillas and wolves with varying results. Many have been attacked and some killed by their pets. This may explain why some people will chose known dangerous breeds of domestic dogs as pets.
> 
> ...


Hmm I think there's MILES of difference in laws that NEED to change against discrimination of folks who just want to be treated as human beings and aren't hurting anyone and laws that are in place for the safety of others, (most victims of wild animals in homes severely or fatally injured aren't even the owners, they are bystanders like friends or unaware visitors) I don't think its a great comparison, sometimes laws are in place strictly to protect us from people who are too selfish to consider others safety over their own desires that's why there's a no drunk driving law for instance, I'm reminded of one of my favorite quotes in one of favorite movies found here: http://i.imgur.com/io73zOm.gif


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

In the UK first generation wolf/dog hybrids to the third generation are classified as wild animals, and require a special licence, inspection of premises, etc, etc. This more or less prevents breeding for profit - anyone wanting to own one has to prove themselves a fit and capable keeper to a government agency that considers breeding these animals for profit an automatic disqualification! There is an active market in dogs bred to look like wolves, though, which are often called wolf dogs and have romantic tales of wolf ancestry woven around their origins.

I suspect the "Dogs are just domesticated wolves" theory has contributed to the appeal of owning a wolf or part-wolf. Skip the hundreds of thousands of years of co-evolution, get right back to nature, and domesticate your own status symbol...


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

They're not allowed in some provinces here either


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

This is all part of that myth of the inner wolf in every dog. The liability issues are very scary. If you become the victim of one, how will you ever be compensated? I doubt the owner could ever have been insured in a way that would make you whole.


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## service_spoo (Mar 14, 2015)

I'm pretty sure Denali isn't a wolfdog...wolfdogs don't have blue eyes. Bue is a recessive trait that both parents have to carry, and wolves don't carry blue. I have a feeling this person has been had. Which is probably a good thing, in the big picture. 

More info on wolfdog phenotype: Physical Differences Between Wolves and Dogs? - Yamnuska Wolfdog Sanctuary


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

It seems like most of the "wolfdogs" I've seen are just wolfish-looking huskies. Occasionally you get someone trying to pass off a husky or malamute as a "high-content" mix, meaning that the dog has a wolf somewhere in its ancestry but it isn't either of the parents. Pretty sure those are just huskies/malamutes too.

Real wolfdogs are definitely dangerous and should only be kept by people who are dog-savvy and live on huge tracts of land, IMO. The wolfdog should be in a situation where it can roam as much as it wants to, attack small wild animals if it wants, and still come home when it desires human companionship. Truthfully I don't know why this hybrid should really exist at all, but if you're really passionate about having one, you need to be the right sort of owner for either a dog _or_ a fully wild wolf, because you could end up with essentially either one.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

service_spoo the pictured dog is a puppy and eye color changes in many species as the animal matures, including dogs. Blue and all other light eye colors including green and yellow are controlled by a recessive locus and thus both parents have to have had a single recessive allele to contribute to the offspring. Wolves have light eye color as do huskies. I suspect that pup's eye color will lighten over time.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

lily, if you bred to hybrids to each other, could you end up with a blue-eyed wolf hybrid?


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## sophie anne (Feb 17, 2015)

service_spoo said:


> I'm pretty sure Denali isn't a wolfdog...wolfdogs don't have blue eyes. Bue is a recessive trait that both parents have to carry, and wolves don't carry blue. I have a feeling this person has been had. Which is probably a good thing, in the big picture.
> 
> More info on wolfdog phenotype: Physical Differences Between Wolves and Dogs? - Yamnuska Wolfdog Sanctuary


Certainly not a first generation wolf/dog cross (F1), no, but a second generation (F2) cross of two 50/50 wolf-dog hybrids could result in blue eyes.. I know that Denali is not F1, mom is a husky and dad is a F1 wolfdog (supposedly).

Or, maybe she does just have a husky which would be GREAT in some respects lol. Who knows what you're getting when you answer a Craigslist ad saying something to the effect of "puppies are going to the shelter tomorrow"! My instant question when she told me all of this was, "Well if you wanted that puppy, why didn't you wait a day and get him from the shelter for just an adoption fee with all his shots?" To which she replied, "That would have been a really good idea!!!" hahaha oh my dear lord...


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

patk sophie anne is correct about the possibility of blue eyes.


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## service_spoo (Mar 14, 2015)

Ah, yes, you're totally right Lily - I kept reading the site that I linked and I did indeed see about the eye color changing  Thanks for pointing that out.


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