# Silver phantom pup born black?



## Sachaanouk (Jan 28, 2021)

Hello. I am curious if there are silver phantom poodle breeders here who can tell me what colors these pups have when new born. 
I have been on a long long waiting list for a female pup. Mum is a black and cream phantom. She was bred with a Dutch apricot champion. ( I am from the Netherlands) Finally 2 pups were born, 1 female, 1 male. Male red and female black. But no apparent blacks in the bloodlines. Only sable, phantom, reds. Is there a possibility that this black pup is a silver phantom? When should I be able to see? Or is there a good change this is a recessive black pup?


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## Sachaanouk (Jan 28, 2021)

Sachaanouk said:


> Hello. I am curious if there are silver phantom poodle breeders here who can tell me what colors these pups have when new born.
> I have been on a long long waiting list for a female pup. Mum is a black and cream phantom. She was bred with a Dutch apricot champion. ( I am from the Netherlands) Finally 2 pups were born, 1 female, 1 male. Male red and female black. But no apparent blacks in the bloodlines. Only sable, phantom, reds. Is there a possibility that this black pup is a silver phantom? When should I be able to see? Or is there a good change this is a recessive black pup?







  








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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Phantom is a modifier. The dog is genetically black or brown. The phantom gene modifies the solid black/brown to have red points. Cream is another modifier. It lightens a red dog to cream, but it doesn't affect black. Combine the two genes, and you get a black phantom with cream points.

My boy Pogo took a few weeks to show his full black and cream color. His breeder told me she was surprised none of the puppies looked phantom when they came out. The eyebrow pips developed pretty soon; Pogo had very dramatic eyebrows by the time he was weaned and I brought him home. His cheeks continued to lighten for the next few months.


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## Sachaanouk (Jan 28, 2021)

cowpony said:


> Phantom is a modifier. The dog is genetically black or brown. The phantom gene modifies the solid black/brown to have red points. Cream is another modifier. It lightens a red dog to cream, but it doesn't affect black. Combine the two genes, and you get a black phantom with cream points.
> 
> My boy Pogo took a few weeks to show his full black and cream color. His breeder told me she was surprised none of the puppies looked phantom when they came out. The eyebrow pips developed pretty soon; Pogo had very dramatic eyebrows by the time he was weaned and I brought him home. His cheeks continued to lighten for the next few months.


Thanks for your reply, the pup is now 4 days old and looks solid black. When did the eyebrows turn color with your Pogo?


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## Darling Darla (Sep 20, 2020)

I have never seen a phantom born solid black. Phantoms are born with the markings. I believe the puppy will be black.


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## Sachaanouk (Jan 28, 2021)

Darling Darla said:


> I have never seen a phantom born solid black. Phantoms are born with the markings. I believe the puppy will be black.


Yes, black and tan and black and cream are born with their markings. But black and silver? Silver is always black when born, so what about a black and silver phantom ?


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## Darling Darla (Sep 20, 2020)

Sachaanouk said:


> Yes, black and tan and black and cream are born with their markings. But black and silver? Silver is always black when born, so what about a black and silver phantom ?


Still would have to be born with Phantom markings.


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