# Breeds that get along with mpoo's?



## Clarrity (Mar 5, 2012)

Hi Everyone!

I have a beautiful 6mo mpoo and I’ve been thinking about getting a second dog one day in the future. My husband reeeeeally wants a Staffy but the thought of a Staffy with my little Sora scares me. What are your thoughts on having a Staffy and a mpoo?

I’ve been told that any dog can get along as well as they are socialised but I do worry that some dogs might snap at Sora because he is sooo playful and full of energy. The other day at the dog park he kept coming up to one dog and would put one paw on its back, then the other dog would growl at him and Sora would run away but then come straight back and do it again. 

Are there any other breeds that have lower maintenance grooming requirements but have a similar playful nature?

I would love a Chihuahua but I worry that it might be snappy at him.

Thanks


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

I loooooove staffy's, but no. Dog versus dog aggression is inherent and uncurable. It can be managed through training and "crate and rotate", but it is a lot of work and doesn't eliminate the dog fight/bite risk. Typically DA gets worse with age and peaks at 18 months - 4 years old. So what-you-see is not what you get most times.

I have a very "drivey" mpoo, his temperament is similar to a terrier. There are plenty of terrier breeds that don't have that inherent dog-versus-dog aggression. There are short-coated terriers too. Thinking along the lines of rat terrier or jack russel terrier.

Don't forget that every dog is an individual and you will find every temperament in every breed.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

By Staffy, I bet a hundred bucks you mean pitbull. Staffy is a nice way to say the original Staffordshire Terrier. People commonly pass off a pitbull for a Staffy. 

Hmmm...not such a good idea. Pitbulls were originally bred to kill other dogs. Staffordshire terriers (the true ones) can be equally fierce, but tend to be more stable personality wise than many pitbulls. Granted, there are some very sweet pits now who have been purposefully bred to try to get rid of that quality (I met some at the UKC shows), but it is still not a great idea to me. A friend of mine at work has (had) two pitbulls. One is a complete sweetie and would never hurt a fly. The other attacked both the neighbors dog and then a few weeks later the sweet dog so badly she was hospitalized for over a week and almost didn't make it. They had to put the mean one to sleep. My friend was terrified because his mother was at his house and started to intervene during the fight. Luckily, he stopped her. 

People like pits because they were bred to be super gentle and loving with people and most are, but at the same time they were bred for that trait, they were also bred to kill other animals. It is so ingrained in them it isn't a great idea to get one with your minipoo. 

There are a bunch of dogs that resemble Stafford Terrier's/pitbulls without the agressive component that is bred into them. Show him:
A boxer, a whippet, a doberman, a bull terrier, rhodesian ridgeback (many of these are very sweet, but some retain their roots, so choose carefully). The boxer is one of the closest in looks to a pitbull, but generally they have super sweet, loving personalities and should get along well with your minipoo. Whippets have the athletic, muscular build, but are racehorses of dogs rather than weight lifters and far calmer than pitbulls plus are generally not dominant. Doberman's have a bad reputation, but I have found them to be great dogs and have that manly look that he seems to like and should get on well with a minipoo. Bull terriers resemble pitbulls in the breadth of their bodies and also have massive heads, although somewhat smaller overall. They tend toward obsessive/compulsive behavior, but are not mean at all. Rhodesian Ridgebacks looks mean, sound mean, but they really are not and are a larger dog. Avoid Rottweilers and Chows (same issues as pits). 

Show him some pictures of boxers. They don't look all that different than a pitbull except for pitbulls have those massive heads and jaws. The bullterrier is another pit look alike. You could look at the mastiffs, too. They are enormous, but sweet in general and not very active. I didn't mention bulldogs because they have so many health issues and are also dog aggressive at times. 

I have met some very sweet pitbulls that got along with other dogs fine, but there are waaaaaay too many that don't. I have to qualify my response by saying the pitbull is my least favorite breed of dog because I have seen far too many viscious attacks from them: in the paper, on the news, when I worked for a veterinarian, with my friends dog that was torn to shreds plus my own whippet who was attacked by one in the dog park (owner claimed she never showed any aggression before - yah, right). In the neighboring city they are proposing spay or neuter for all pitbulls. 

Chihuahua's are a lot of dog in the tiny little package. They tend to be very dominant and can also be mean to other dogs. I would choose a boxer over a chihuahua to get along with your current dog. Don't underestimate the chihuahua because of size!!! There are dozens of chihuahua's in the animal shelters here. People get them and then realize what a lot of dog is in that tiny body. The long haired ones have sweeter personaities than the short haired ones. 

Just my opinions (and I do have them), but you asked.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

I would go for a similar size and play style. Bully-type breeds (Staffies, Boxers, bulldogs) generally like a rousing body-slamming type of play. My miniature HATES that. His favourite dogs to play with are Border Terriers, Jack Russells, Whippets, spaniels, Bichons, etc. Dogs of similar size, who like the chase-me, chase-you type of play. And of course other poodles :smile:. 

I personally would stay away from Staffies. I know they can be lovely dogs, but I've met too many that are scary aggressive to other dogs. And they can do real damage.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

I would not pair a much larger dog with a mini. Unless your mini is very oversized. Minis are sturdier than toys, but still quite small. I wouldn't want the stress of worrying that play between a 15 pound dog and a 50 or 60 pound dog could result in accidental damage to the mini.

Maybe if it was a standard poodle, I don't know... even play between my mini and my FIL's standard can get rough at times. Maybe someone who has minis and standards together can chime in. But definitely not a GSD, Lab, pit bull type, Rott, etc., they large, heavy-boned breeds.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

It looks like key consideration is low (grooming) maintenance, which would eliminate some of my other suggestions -- my neighbor has a Havaneese mix little boy who is the darn sweetest, fun little guy and loves to play and loves the world (Sunny loves him). However, there's regular grooming there, too. 

I'd look at some of the small dog rescue groups and there are tons of smaller playful energy breeds that would probably be a good match. Just bring your mpoo in when you go to see the pets and see how it goes. I'd probably just look at another mpoo --- but again, you have the grooming issue.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

JE-UK said:


> I would go for a similar size and play style. Bully-type breeds (Staffies, Boxers, bulldogs) generally like a rousing body-slamming type of play. My miniature HATES that. His favourite dogs to play with are Border Terriers, Jack Russells, Whippets, spaniels, Bichons, etc. Dogs of similar size, who like the chase-me, chase-you type of play. And of course other poodles :smile:.
> 
> I personally would stay away from Staffies. I know they can be lovely dogs, but I've met too many that are scary aggressive to other dogs. And they can do real damage.


Quoted 'coz I agree with the 'body slamming' part, and quoted 'coz I agree with the 'run and chase' play style of Poodles.  *Tho I've seen some who like to 'box' too. *

........................................

The Staff that I dog-sat for a few months was a beautiful, fun and affectionate dog to be around. Fantastic with humans!  

He was hell-on-wheels around anything on four feet tho. He wanted to taste them all . . . squirrels, cats and other dogs. He would never bark or growl, but simply charge the other animal, with no warning, and knock it off it's feet. It never even knew the Staff was coming. 

By the time it knew what happened, the Staff would have a big mouthful of it's belly..... 

Amazing to watch . . . but tooooo scary to keep around!


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## Clarrity (Mar 5, 2012)

Thank you everyone for your replies! I really appreciate the time that you all spent giving me advice. You all just confirmed my initial fears about having a Staffy. I really do not want a staffy so it works out! hehe

I really like the idea of going to the RSPCA to find another dog that he gets along with. When we are ready to get another dog, we'll go for a trip! 

Thanks again


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

It really depends on the individual dog, I've met some beautiful and sweet staffy's at shows. In fact, I met a standard poodle and staffy at the same time last weekend, I had Cairo with me. The standard about trampled Cairo, but the staffy and Cairo just touched noses and wagged tails together.

Look in shelters, there really are a lot of pits in shelters that are going to DIE because of their rep, they're not my breed, but I'm a dog lover and it makes me sad so many die. Lots of these dogs are fostered and they can tell you if they're good with other dogs or not.

Example, here's Vienna playing with my parents really fat boxer/pit mix. Who's the trouble maker here? (;


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## qtpoodle (Jan 15, 2012)

My mini and my little girl's chihuahua are great together. The chi is only 4 lbs and my mini is 11 lbs. I must say that my chi adores all people, and she is great with any dog who is nice to her. She doesn't have a mean bone in her body, and she's not a yappy, nippy, and stereotypical chi. You see my mini and chi in my avatar.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Also, pitbulls, staffordshire terriers, and american staffordshire terriers are three entirely different breeds. Amstaffs and Staffys are both an AKC breed and pits are a ukc breed.

This adopted pitty is really quite aggressive, eh? (;






Pitty









Amstaff (gorgeous imo)









Staffy









Not meaning to hijack anything, just think it's important people know what they're referring to.


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## sneakers012 (Jun 2, 2011)

I have a spoo- and evidently a relatively large one at 26" tall and ~65-70 lbs. At a year old. Anyway... our tenants originally told us they had a lab mix, so when they brought their rescued "Willow" over for a meet and greet with the resident Spoo (who was smaller then), I nearly died. Into my yard walked a smaller female bully breed cross who has since turned out to be my dog's best friend. They play, racing back and forth across the yard, for HOURS at a time. 

We're also regular visitors to a dog park in the area, where some of the nicest dogs are bully crosses of all types and sizes. Loki now picks them out because, and I don't know what else to think, they remind him of Willow. 

Now, mind you, I advocate for these dogs because I've never seen them be really "bad". I've seen them made bad... But I also have seen some pretty messed up poodles out there. And I grew up with a Springer Spaniel bitch who took crap from NO DOG. I watched her dive off an 8' retaining wall onto a German Shepherd who had the misfortune of wandering up our driveway.

So... while I wouldn't put a huge dog with a little dog, Miss Willow weighs maybe 30 lbs soaking wet and doesn't do the body-slamming thing so many have mentioned. All in all, it's an avenue you could look into- there are so many dogs out there desperate for homes, I'm sure you will find one that fits your needs- bully or not.


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## Clarrity (Mar 5, 2012)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Also, pitbulls, staffordshire terriers, and american staffordshire terriers are three entirely different breeds. Amstaffs and Staffys are both an AKC breed and pits are a ukc breed.
> 
> This adopted pitty is really quite aggressive, eh? (;
> 
> ...


Thank you for the videos and input! They were absolutely adoreable! 

Just to clarity my husband wants a Staffy (the short legged muscular one). We've got one in dog school and it's just a ball of muscle! When they were at puppy school together they would play well together but eventually it would become a little too rough for him and sora would start snapping. But that wasn't exclusive to the staff it was also with any pup that became too rough with him.

My only worry is that Sora is only 4.6kg which i think is about 10 pounds give or take and just under 15inchs tall. It wouldn't take much to hurt him. 

And while I'm at it, I might as well show off his cuteness!


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## sneakers012 (Jun 2, 2011)

Oh man, he's so cute!!!


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

My husband and I like the bully breeds and had one for a short time with our 5lb toy. They got along well were kenneled seperately when we couldnt supervised and were supervised when together. I miss that dog.. But because of our lifestyle and all the breed banning we cant have one at this time.. perhaps when we retire lol. Anyway IF you do want one I would be careful.. They are a lot of dog, and need plenty of excersize, which may be too much for the avg pet owner. It can be done. Perhaps going thru a rescue and adopting an an older female that is lower keyed than your current dog.

As for minis being fragile and shouldnt be around labs, gsds.. I dont believe that much either.. My mini is about 13 3/4" tall and about 12-13lbs.. and she can hold her own. She is not an aggressive dog and doesnt go looking for trouble, and loves to play with other dogs. However if a dog oversteps his or her bounderies she will under no uncertain terms let them know that. The first time was a lab that was very exhuberant and snatched one of her hair wrappers, and the second was a husky that placed its paw on her back( a dominant gesture).. both times definitely were more warnings than actual attacks. The lab she never forgave.. perhaps cause it hurt lol, and the husky she was fine with afterwards. But she doesnt hold it against other members of the same breed either. Every dog is an individual!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I assume you are in the UK? Staffies can be delightful dogs, but as JE says, their play style may not be suitable for a poodle. There are so many Staffy crosses in rescue, though, with such a huge range of shapes, sizes, backgrounds and temperaments, that it may yet be possible to find a dog that was exactly right for all of you! Perhaps a regular scan of dogsblog.com might be a good idea (or there again, perhaps too tempting...).

A whippet would be a good combination in terms of weight and play style, if you have the enclosed space to keep one safe. My toy poodle, Poppy, who is just a little smaller than your boy, gets on very well with Sophy my papillon - but a papillon may not have the masculine look your husband is possibly after ... a border terrier could be a good match (although even borders can be dog reactive). In the end the temperament of the individual dog is more important than the breed, so choose your rescue or breeder with care!


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## agilityfreak (Mar 14, 2012)

In our house we have two "large" dogs and a mini and they all get along fine. We have a boxer(maybe 75lbs won't know for sure until his vet app.) and a lab mix(she's 20in at the shoulder and about 41 lbs) and they all get along well.

My boxer in general is a nutcase and full of energy. my mix is a little on the calmer side, but when she's in the mood can be a nut. Twister generally stays out of their way when they are rough housing together(he has his little safe spot between the sofas where he watches or he goes to his crate) and when they're not he tries to play with them, but they're not interested. However when Abby tries to play with Twister she tones it down, but she's very vocal when she plays and that's what scares him. For some reason he's petrified of barking dogs...And Bo honestly has no interest in him at all. He'd much rather play with Abby, pester the cat, or play by himself(he's really good at that because Abby usually never plays with him).

I personally absolutely adore boxers! And I plan to always own at least one. I mean they are just huge clowns/goofballs who think they're lap dogs... I know plenty of people who own boxers(and other large breeds) and other small breeds together with no issues(A lady on the boxer forum has her boxer rocky and about 2-3 mpoo mixes -I believe mixed with yorkies- and all play together wonderfully and rocky thinks he's a small dog).

So yeah I wouldn't rule out owning a bigger dog I think it depends more on the individual dog. And honestly I'm a big dog person Twister is our first small dog and when I first found out my parents were getting him I wasn't to thrilled partially because I didn't think we were ready for number three and because I was a bit worried about my two bigger dogs, but now I have him I'm honestly really happy we do. Abby and Bo are great with him and he's definitely not afraid to let the big dogs know when they're over stepping boundaries. But when it comes to choosing a companion for your pup I would say maybe visit some shelters(If you're planning to get a shelter pup?) with your pup and then go with the one that connects and seems like a good fit with him


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

I don't know much about staffies, but in deciding on a second dog, I would look at eating style as well as playing style. My two spoos are grazers and I keep kibble out all day. When friends with other dogs visit, I have to take the kibble up and have specific feeding times with the dogs separated. Much easier IMO if the dogs are on the same page when it comes to eating. 

My girl Cammie plays with a young pitbull in the park and they have a great time. I'm a little nervous given what some people have said about how pits are bred to have dog on dog aggression. Anyone have any opinions about whether I need to worry? They are both about a year old and they seem to play nicely together. Here they are playing.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

peppersb said:


> I don't know much about staffies, but in deciding on a second dog, I would look at eating style as well as playing style. My two spoos are grazers and I keep kibble out all day. When friends with other dogs visit, I have to take the kibble up and have specific feeding times with the dogs separated. Much easier IMO if the dogs are on the same page when it comes to eating.
> 
> My girl Cammie plays with a young pitbull in the park and they have a great time. I'm a little nervous given what some people have said about how pits are bred to have dog on dog aggression. Anyone have any opinions about whether I need to worry? They are both about a year old and they seem to play nicely together. Here they are playing.


Young, immature pit bulls/amstaffs/staffybulls are usually very dog friendly. When they physically mature the aggression comes out. It can be constant, but more dangerously it can be inpredictable. I can't count how many dog park pit fights I've broken up because "she's never done that before"!

Like a pit that lives fine with another dog and will randomly attak with zero provocation. That's how they are. It might happen once in a lifetime, but it's going to be bad when it does.

I love the breeds so much, but I can deal with the DA stuff. So I have a poodle.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

tortoise said:


> Young, immature pit bulls/amstaffs/staffybulls are usually very dog friendly. When they physically mature the aggression comes out. It can be constant, but more dangerously it can be inpredictable. I can't count how many dog park pit fights I've broken up because "she's never done that before"!
> 
> Like a pit that lives fine with another dog and will randomly attak with zero provocation. That's how they are. It might happen once in a lifetime, but it's going to be bad when it does.
> 
> I love the breeds so much, but I can deal with the DA stuff. So I have a poodle.


So Tortoise, it sounds like I should keep Cammie away from the pitbull in the above photos. That's what you are saying, right? I hate to walk away when this neighbor shows up with her dog, but your comments about inpredictability, zero provocation, etc. are very sobering.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

My vote is Havanese! Similar in size to a mpoo. But of course you wanted low maintenance grooming... If you are just looking for a companion, I'd say a mixed dog from the shelter will do!


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

tortoise said:


> Young, immature pit bulls/amstaffs/staffybulls are usually very dog friendly. When they physically mature the aggression comes out. It can be constant, but more dangerously it can be inpredictable. I can't count how many dog park pit fights I've broken up because "she's never done that before"!
> 
> Like a pit that lives fine with another dog and will randomly attak with zero provocation. That's how they are. It might happen once in a lifetime, but it's going to be bad when it does.
> 
> I love the breeds so much, but I can deal with the DA stuff. So I have a poodle.


It makes me sad that that's your opinion.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Fluffyspoos said:


> It makes me sad that that's your opinion.


I'm sorry that makes you sad. 

Use your judgement. There are great pitties out there. There are nasty ones too. Training and socializing is not a complete control. It is NOT "all in how you raise them." DA is as ingrained in pitties as retrieving is in labs. Sure, there are labs that don't retrieve... just not a lot of them.

My last (of many) pitties I raised to be extremely social. She did everything, went everywhere, lived with other dogs, played with other dogs. I was starting to think I have been overly-concerned. THEN she hit 2 - 3 years old and would happily kill another dog. I still had her in a multiple dog household. Most days were fine. But other days, they would each be laying on their own beds - far apart - and we'd be watching TV. As calm a situation as you can imagine. My baby would some days spring up, run across the room and attack the other dog. So much for integration.

There are good ones out there. But be really cautious with the young ones because many do not stay that dog-social into maturity. DA in pts peaks at 1 - 4 years. If you adopt an older dog you can expect the level of DA to be exactly what you see. If you have a younger dog it might change.

DA was bred into pitties and I dearly hope it is bred out. They are absolutely lovely dogs. The problem is, breeding them is socially unaccpetable and considered irresponsible. So only the scumbags beed them, making them worse.

If I won the lottery (and am magically cured of my disabilities) I might re-create them into a non-DA version of themselves. I am passionate about the breed even though they are more than I can handle now.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

tortoise said:


> The problem is, breeding them is socially unaccpetable and considered irresponsible. So only the scumbags beed them, making them worse.


I am really at a loss for words. Why do you make such ridiculous blanket statements like this? 

I am sure the member breeders of these clubs and their Grand Champion dogs would disagree with your statement that only scumbags breed them!

STCA Homepage

National American Pit Bull Terrier Association


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Well you're very entitled to your _opinion_, tortoise.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

PaddleAddict said:


> I am really at a loss for words. Why do you make such ridiculous blanket statements like this?
> 
> I am sure the member breeders of these clubs and their Grand Champion dogs would disagree with your statement that only scumbags breed them!
> 
> ...


I think some people make blanket statements because they are trying to stir the pot. Honestly, I find most of the posts lately pretty ridiculous regarding the pitbulls. ....."I love them so much." Ok, what are you doing on a poodle forum for then --- perhaps you should be advocating on the bully breed forum. Unbelievable.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

liljaker said:


> I think some people make blanket statements because they are trying to stir the pot. Honestly, I find most of the posts lately pretty ridiculous regarding the pitbulls. ....."I love them so much." Ok, what are you doing on a poodle forum for then --- perhaps you should be advocating on the bully breed forum. Unbelievable.


Um.. they're on a poodle forum because they're obviously dog lovers.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Well you're very entitled to your _opinion_, tortoise.


Entitlement and having them make any sense are two different things ----


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

The OP is British, and the dog her husband would like is a British Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Properly bred, raised and socialised Staffies are no more prone to aggression than any other breed - probably less so than most. Pit bulls are a banned breed in the UK, so she could not easily buy one even if she wanted to! 

My only concern about choosing a Staffie as a companion for a miniature poodle would be the possible differences in weight and play style. But there are uncountable Staffy crosses in rescue looking for good homes, and amongst them there must be many that would be just right.

I do not know any PBTs, of any age, so cannot comment; I do know many Staffies - good, bad and indifferent, just like every other breed of dog.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Um.. they're on a poodle forum because they're obviously dog lovers.


One would THINK so, I am not so sure.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

liljaker said:


> One would THINK so, I am not so sure.


Since everyone is entitled to their opinion, my opinion is that some people may be here for other reasons.......IMHO.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

liljaker said:


> Entitlement and having them make any sense are two different things ----


Oh you've owned them? Please tell me about your experiences


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Lots of opinions on the bully breed, especially here in the U.S. That said, and having owned a pitbull, I consider myself an expert on them (I can do that right, since I owned one?) and I would never get a pit with a poodle. IMHO!


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

liljaker said:


> Lots of opinions on the bully breed, especially here in the U.S. That said, and having owned a pitbull, I consider myself an expert on them (I can do that right, since I owned one?) and I would never get a pit with a poodle. IMHO!


Having three poodles, I'm far from calling myself an expert on poodles, how can you call yourself an expert with bully breeds from having owned one at one point?


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Well, since this forum allows everyone to say they are an expert for any reason, I thought I would throw my hat into the ring. Yes, I owned one and his name was Gilligan, was 48 pounds of muscle and given to me by Barry Gordy (yeah, the Motown one) because it attacked his poodles. IMO I would not pair them with a poodle ---- in my expert opinion. Also, since I have taken a poodle to obedience training and have read many books I consider myself an expert at dog training, too!


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Having three poodles, I'm far from calling myself an expert on poodles, how can you call yourself an expert with bully breeds from having owned one at one point?


I am just following suit from others on the forum who declare they are experts in everything and knowledgeable in nothing. IMHO. Nothing personal just my opinion -- and well, we are all entitled to them.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

liljaker said:


> I am just following suit from others on the forum who declare they are experts in everything and knowledgeable in nothing. IMHO. Nothing personal just my opinion -- and well, we are all entitled to them.


Good! I'm just as glad that you have an opinion


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

My spoo's favorite playmate is a Boston Terrier. There are so many in rescue and my mom has gotten two of them. She picked her dogs by how long their noses were, she wanted them to have long noses. Her dogs are able to play, and hike and do anything any other dog can do. Show your husband a few Boston Terriers, they look like bully dogs, but are not at all.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

They're not really an issue here in Ontario. 'Pit Bulls' *whatever breed that is* have been banned since 2005. No buying, selling, breeding, or importing. 

Pretty soon we'll see the last of them... :/


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Countryboy said:


> They're not really an issue here in Ontario. 'Pit Bulls' *whatever breed that is* have been banned since 2005. No buying, selling, breeding, or importing.
> 
> Pretty soon we'll see the last of them... :/


Here in the midwest I am amazed at the % of rescues they make up (bully mixes, etc.). I never really paid attention to it, but since I was on a few email lists for rescues, I have looked at most of the midwest sites. It is such a shame that there are so many bully breeds homeless, in rescues, etc. and many of them high kill shelters (at least in Chicago area). There are tons in Evanston, too, as most people here adopt larger rescue breeds, etc. Good thing Sunny has had only positive experiences in life (except maybe the plane ride here) and is totally neutral with all dogs since a guy walked by with a 5 month old pitbull pup (female) with I swear a 3" prong collar on her and she was still pulling him all over and about knocked over my neighbor trying to get to her dog. The guy could hardly control her, and although I didn't see any meanness in her, the sheer strength and determination would have set my poor Jake off in a heartbeat and the result would not have been pretty (IMO). Sunny sort of observed and walked the other way --- waiting for us to continue. Oh well, there are lots of opinions on this for sure.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

BTW, the breed I owned when I lived in Sherman Oaks, California, was a Staffordshire Terrier ---- he was a brindle.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

I haven't bothered to read all the replies, I got the drift.

There are a few pit bull circles. There are the pet and rescue folk, the scummy breeders - some of which STILL use dog fighting to "test" their dogs, and then there are the show breeders.

I have nothing against "show" breeders. And by that I mean UKC or AKC breeders honestly trying to better the breed.

But in the rest of the community - especially in rescue circles, _anyone_ who breeds is vilified. Including the thes best out there. It's a dounle-edges sword because the scummy breeders don't care and the "show" breeders are trying to do the right thing.

I'm not attempting to "stir a pot". I'm telling you how it is - from me having been immersed in pits from 2001 - 2010. It a breed I'm passionate about, but I've lost a lot of patience and a lot of my ability to fight for them.

I don't understand why someone would object to having the knowledge that DA develops at maturity in pitties, so the happy-go-lucky dog park playmate is likely to have an aggressive inicident. The dog didn't "turn" it's just what to expect.

I will happily go meet a pittie. I love 'em. But I won't trust one with my dog. If I'm in a pet store and see a pit that I'm dying to meet, I put my dog in a sit stay at least 20 feet away before I approach the owner and see if they're feeling up to chatting. Overly cautious? Maybe. But for good reason, I've broken up more dog fights than I care to think about.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Tortoise -- I appreciate what you have shared here. I was pretty comfortable with my girl playing with the pitbull puppy, but he's now close to a year old. I think we will be avoiding that kind of interaction in the future. If other people have a different opinion on that, I'd love to hear other perspectives. I also plan to ask my vet about it. Thanks for sharing your opinions and experience!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

liljaker said:


> Here in the midwest I am amazed at the % of rescues they make up (bully mixes, etc.)....It is such a shame that there are so many bully breeds homeless, in rescues, etc. and many of them high kill shelters (at least in Chicago area). There are tons in Evanston, too, as most people here adopt larger rescue breeds, etc.


You have such a great, loving heart for dogs,* liljaker*! I know how you watch out for rescue dogs and admire your diligent, unadvertised efforts to help them find good homes. Thanks too for sharing your experience with pitbulls. I continue to find you to be a most caring and devoted dog lover, not to mention a wonderful mpoo owner!:thumb:


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## Clarrity (Mar 5, 2012)

fjm said:


> The OP is British, and the dog her husband would like is a British Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Properly bred, raised and socialised Staffies are no more prone to aggression than any other breed - probably less so than most. Pit bulls are a banned breed in the UK, so she could not easily buy one even if she wanted to!
> 
> My only concern about choosing a Staffie as a companion for a miniature poodle would be the possible differences in weight and play style. But there are uncountable Staffy crosses in rescue looking for good homes, and amongst them there must be many that would be just right.
> 
> I do not know any PBTs, of any age, so cannot comment; I do know many Staffies - good, bad and indifferent, just like every other breed of dog.


Thanks  I'm actually Australian, but pit bull are banned here as well. But yes thats the dog my husband wants. I completely agree with you with the play styles etc. the one at dog school seems to want to wrestle but Sora wants to run.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Another Poodle!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Clarrity said:


> Thanks  I'm actually Australian, but pit bull are banned here as well.


Well OK . . I'll be the sucker. I just gotta ask... where is he planning on getting his brand new pit bull then?  lol

But even up here in Canada, I had an Australian Shepard for many years. One of the best dogs I ever had. Quick to learn, a good companion, very protective and eager to have fun! 

Surely yr DH could find one of them down there, eh?  lol


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## Clarrity (Mar 5, 2012)

Countryboy said:


> Well OK . . I'll be the sucker. I just gotta ask... where is he planning on getting his brand new pit bull then?  lol
> 
> But even up here in Canada, I had an Australian Shepard for many years. One of the best dogs I ever had. Quick to learn, a good companion, very protective and eager to have fun!
> 
> Surely yr DH could find one of them down there, eh?  lol


Lol no no, he wants a Staffy not a pit bull! Sorry I wasn't very clear in my last message. 

We've got an Aust Shepard in dog school as well, beautiful dog! hehe


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

I had an Australian Shepard, too, and Panda was a great dog.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

The Staffordshire Bull Terrier (informally: Staffie, Stafford, Staffy or Staff) is a medium-sized, short-coated, old-time breed of dog.[1] It is an English dog, where it is the 5th most popular breed, and related to the bull terrier. Having descended from dog-fighting ancestors, it is muscular and courageous. It is the subject of breed specific legislation in some jurisdictions.

aka Pitbull


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

liljaker said:


> The Staffordshire Bull Terrier (informally: Staffie, Stafford, Staffy or Staff) is a medium-sized, short-coated, old-time breed of dog.[1] It is an English dog, where it is the 5th most popular breed, and related to the bull terrier. Having descended from dog-fighting ancestors, it is muscular and courageous. It is the subject of breed specific legislation in some jurisdictions.
> 
> aka Pitbull


If a staffy is a pitbull then these are poodles


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## Clarrity (Mar 5, 2012)

liljaker said:


> The Staffordshire Bull Terrier (informally: Staffie, Stafford, Staffy or Staff) is a medium-sized, short-coated, old-time breed of dog.[1] It is an English dog, where it is the 5th most popular breed, and related to the bull terrier. Having descended from dog-fighting ancestors, it is muscular and courageous. It is the subject of breed specific legislation in some jurisdictions.
> 
> aka Pitbull


We don't classify staffordshire bull terriers as pit bulls in australia, pit bulls are banned here. In fact most Aussies love them and think they are great family dogs and wouldnt hesitate to leave them with kids. I assume that it's different in other countries.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Clarrity said:


> We don't classify staffordshire bull terriers as pit bulls in australia, pit bulls are banned here. In fact most Aussies love them and think they are great family dogs and wouldnt hesitate to leave them with kids. I assume that it's different in other countries.


No, it isn't any different here. I'm not a pitbull fan, but the breed hate going on in this thread is insane. I've been snapped at no more from a pit or bully breed than I have from shih tzus, chihuahuas, huskies, poodles, rotties, ect. You can't say you love a breed then throw them under the bus.

If you have your heart set on something, go for it, and if something else happens, that's fine too. I had my heart set on a papillon for my toy dog, I had my breeder picked, the route to drive picked, and found a toy poodle puppy that needed a home. I may not get a papillon for awhile, but at least this dog is at his forever home.


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## Clarrity (Mar 5, 2012)

Fluffyspoos said:


> No, it isn't any different here. I'm not a pitbull fan, but the breed hate going on in this thread is insane. I've been snapped at no more from a pit or bully breed than I have from shih tzus, chihuahuas, huskies, poodles, rotties, ect. You can't say you love a breed then throw them under the bus.


Sorry just to clarrify I hope you dont mean I threw the breed under the bus? If I made it seem that way I'm sorry, it wasn't intended like that. I like the breed but I'm more of a little dog fan but my husband like dogs with a bit of muscle.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Clarrity, it's not you! You are fine.

In fact, even though I participated in the pit bull discussion maybe this thread has gotten too far off topic. It might be best to stick to the OP's original topic, which is breeds that are a good match for a mini poodle.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Pm'd ya, Clarrity


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

*Fluffyspoos*, what drew you to the Papillon? Just curious what draws mainly poodle lovers to other breeds, and why toy breeds when owners own bigger dogs. I was drawn to the Havanese for their size, temperament, and coat type. I feel Hav's are the cutest drop coat breeds (my opinion of course). Maybe shedding light on other breeds, similar in size to a mpoo, will help Clarrity consider other breeds.

When choosing a dog, I always ask "Who am I getting another dog for?" You have to ask, is it for you, the husband, the dog? I got a toy breed for myself. I wanted another dog for the healthy canine competition to motivate Leroy and for me to play with a different coat texture. If my husband really wanted a dog and he would be the primary caretaker, then I'd let him choose the breed. If I wanted a companion for my current dog, I would definitely focus on size and temperament before deciding on the breed.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Sorry for placing you in the wrong hemisphere, Clarrity - I saw RSPCA, and jumped to conclusions! Have you looked at Border Terriers? A wirier coat than a Staffy, and not so solidly muscled, but an easier temperament than most terriers and a good match for a mini.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Fluffyspoos said:


> No, it isn't any different here. I'm not a pitbull fan, but the breed hate going on in this thread is insane. I've been snapped at no more from a pit or bully breed than I have from shih tzus, chihuahuas, huskies, poodles, rotties, ect. You can't say you love a breed then throw them under the bus.


I haven't seen any breed hate going on, but a lot of pragmatic realism. Of course, any dog with teeth can bite, no dispute there.

But I am no more surprised by aggression in bully breeds than I am by herding behaviour in collies or digging in terriers. It's a trait that's been bred into them, and failing to acknowledge that propensity is just naive. 

I would second the recommendation for a Border Terrier. I know a few, and they are lovely dogs, cheery and pretty biddable for a terrier breed.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

From a general standpoint, what I meant to convey and goofed by pulling the breed information, is that generally in the U.S. pitbulls (ABT) and the Staffy (Staffordshire) are considered pitbulls. You can argue the "lines" but at the end of the day, NO this is not a breed that I would put for a companion animal to my poodle. I had the actually "Staffy" which was a purebred dog when I lived in California as I mentioned on an earlier post and they had to rehome him because he was attacking the poodles. Through with this discussion since there is no winner here and IMO no good outcome for pairing one with a poodle.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Actually, here is a summary I was provided which explains the two. And, since this breed is probably the most hotly debated breed issue here in the States, I am signing out on this with reiterating that "no, not a good choice for a companion for a mini poodle." Have a nice day everyone. There will be no winners especially on an internet forum on this one.

Summary:
1.The American Pitbull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier both belong to the molesser breed group. Both originated in Europe.
2.The Pitbull is taller, heavier and more muscular than the Amstaff. It also exhibits more aggression and power than its counterpart.
3.Pitbulls are known to be passionate, aggressive, and physically powerful. Amstaffs are generally affectionate, protective, gentle, energetic and intelligent.
4.Some pitbulls today are used as police and therapy dogs. With proper training, both breeds make for excellent guardians and companions.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Speaking of Breed Specific Legislation . . BSL . . here's a link that somebody just popped into my newsfeed.

This is a meeting of the BSL Committee. The people on the left are the present Ontario *Liberal - Left-leaning* government members. The people on the right are the *Conservative - Right leaning* opposition members. 

The government has passed a breed ban. The opposition is trying to soften the result of this outright ban . . . clause by clause.

If u've really got the time, see what happens...

But I'll give u a clue.... pretty much nothing happens. The Breed Ban stays intact. 

Bill 16 - BSL Committee votes NO to Amendments - Randy Hillier - YouTube


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

*Claritty*: Would your hubby perhaps consider a Doberman Pinscher? My mini plays_ beautifully _with two well bred Dobbie siblings, one male the other female.They're easy keepers in terms of coat care, and enjoy and need exercise. My mini can out run 'em though! Some think of them as a "manly breed," whatever that means! 

The AKC website says: 
"The Doberman Pinscher is known to be energetic, watchful, fearless and obedient. He is ready to give prompt alarm (and back up that warning) but is also affectionate, obedient and loyal. The breed requires regular exercise, but needs only minimal grooming for his short coat."


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

I feel the answer to the question is really ANY breed can get along with a mpoo...if you purchase a puppy of any breed from a reputable breeder that knows the temperaments in their line/litters and you raise said puppy along side the mpoo you'll be perfectly fine


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## t_meghan (Apr 26, 2012)

Keithsomething said:


> I feel the answer to the question is really ANY breed can get along with a mpoo...if you purchase a puppy of any breed from a reputable breeder that knows the temperaments in their line/litters and you raise said puppy along side the mpoo you'll be perfectly fine[/QUOTE
> 
> I agree 100% any puppy that is raised right and your mpoo gets along with would be fine. As long as the pup is socialized and trained well any dog can learn to behave no matter what kind of speculations are made against them. My mpoo has played wirh many bully breeds and is usually much rougher then them. Pits get bad reps because of bad owners the breed is not born to be natural killers, any dog can bite and turn on its owner in a minute. Just my input not trying to step on anyone's toes.


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## t_meghan (Apr 26, 2012)

Sorry I can never get the quote box to work right!


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

liljaker said:


> Actually, here is a summary I was provided which explains the two. And, since this breed is probably the most hotly debated breed issue here in the States, I am signing out on this with reiterating that "no, not a good choice for a companion for a mini poodle." Have a nice day everyone. There will be no winners especially on an internet forum on this one.


Your summary is not correct, but it doesn't matter since all that either of us want to say is that they're not a good choice for a multiple dog household.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

t_meghan said:


> Keithsomething said:
> 
> 
> > I feel the answer to the question is really ANY breed can get along with a mpoo...if you purchase a puppy of any breed from a reputable breeder that knows the temperaments in their line/litters and you raise said puppy along side the mpoo you'll be perfectly fine[/QUOTE
> ...


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## t_meghan (Apr 26, 2012)

Please Read!! 

Fact vs Fiction 

Aren’t Pit Bulls hard wired to be dog aggressive? Another myth, although it is true that these breeds of dog were originally bred to be animal aggressive, it does not mean that they will be. Hundreds of Thousands of “Pit Bulls” have passed of old age, after living their lives as loving family pets, in multiple dog households with no trouble what so ever. (quoted from cite)

As I said before it just depends on how you socialize and raise it and how other dogs in the family get along with it. Bully breeds can be wonderful compnian pets in the right home with the right owners.


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## Clarrity (Mar 5, 2012)

my husband wants a staffordshire terrier not a pit bull. there is no point discussing the aggression of pit bulls when it isn't even what I was asking about. Now we've established that some pit bulls have aggression issues and some don't despite the fact that wasnt my question.

Thank you to all the people who gave me advice regarding the actual topic.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

t_meghan said:


> Please Read!!
> 
> Fact vs Fiction
> 
> ...


That's disingenuous, t_meghan, and potentially dangerous for a novice dog owner who thinks their new pit bull puppy will be fine with other dogs, just because they have raised it with lots of love. Yes, many pits live eventless lives as family pets. Many require constant management. And a percentage are dangerously dog aggressive.

That site you linked to has the biggest piece of bull I've ever seen:

_If Pit Bulls are not aggressive, then why did one kill my neighbors little dog? Dogs have no concept of size but, a deep sense of protocol, often a smaller dog will challenge a larger dog and the results can be tragic. A rude dog is a rude dog even if it weighs only six pounds Human error is primarily the cause of most small dogs being attacked. Humans do not always prevent their smaller dogs from barking or lunging at larger dogs, dogs often perceive barking, lunging, or pulling ahead of a human on leash as confrontational. _

Are they really suggesting that it is JUSTIFIED for a pit to kill a smaller dog if the dog is rude? If that's the case, I've been being far too gentle with people who bump into me on the Tube :smile:. I didn't realise rudeness was sufficient justification.

I would have much more respect for bull breed aficionados if they'd be honest about both the strengths AND the failings of their breeds.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Clarrity said:


> my husband wants a staffordshire terrier not a pit bull. there is no point discussing the aggression of pit bulls when it isn't even what I was asking about. Now we've established that some pit bulls have aggression issues and some don't despite the fact that wasnt my question.
> 
> Thank you to all the people who gave me advice regarding the actual topic.


I think it's a terminology thing. There is the breed, the American Pit Bull Terrier, and then there is the category, pit bull. Breeds bred for pit fighting (and the Staffy is one) are often lumped in the same category as the APBT.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

my son's pitt bull plays with any dog beautifully. they play with my 18 pound cairns beautifully. dogs know how to adjust their playing based on size.

my friend has am staffs who live and play with dachsunds and mini bull terriers. she also does breed rescue of boxers/pitt bulls and am staffs. she used to show in akc her amstaffs, but quit because of her health.

amstaffs, pitties, any of them etc are the bad breed now. it's annoying to read. in fact, i didn't bother opening this thread because i have spoos and no mini. 

please do not generalize a breed based on anecdotal bunch of bs.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

oh and by the way my daughter was bitten in the face by a mini poodle.

so what is up with that? huh? should we ban mini poodles? it wasn't my daugher's fault. she was sitting with the owner and petting the dog.


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## t_meghan (Apr 26, 2012)

I just want people to not judge based on what society has made the breed to be. I want people to see for themselves and yes any dog is capable of aggression they are animals in he end.


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

I have a "Poodle News" feed in google news. Every few days, without fail, there is another story about a pitbull attacking a poodle. Here are two such stories just from the past week:

Another Attack: Pitbull kills poodle, then bites owner

pitbull-charges-poodle-on-gladys-avenue-owner-cited

My search brings up any news story with "poodle" in the headline; it doesn't look for pitbull attacks, in particular. Yet, in the many months I've been running this search, the villain in every single one of these stories has _always_ been a pitbull. Always.

Believe what you like, but as far as this poodle owner is concerned, pitbulls are the terrorists of the canine world.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

faerie said:


> my son's pitt bull plays with any dog beautifully. they play with my 18 pound cairns beautifully. dogs know how to adjust their playing based on size.
> 
> my friend has am staffs who live and play with dachsunds and mini bull terriers. she also does breed rescue of boxers/pitt bulls and am staffs. she used to show in akc her amstaffs, but quit because of her health.
> 
> ...


I'm sure your son's pit bull is a great dog. I never said, no one has ever said, even the people that are very pro-BSL, that ALL pits are aggressive, to either people or other dogs. I've known some really nice ones. I've also known ones that should never be allowed out in public. Some of that is training/rearing, some of that is breed traits.

Bullies aren't 'bad' breeds, they are breeds that demonstrate traits that have been bred into them. 'Bad' for me may not be bad for someone else. There are a whole lot of breeds I would never own, because there are traits that those breeds AS A WHOLE are MORE LIKELY to demonstrate. Sight hounds chase things that move. Northern breeds howl. Discussions of bad or good are irrelevant. These are traits I don't want to have to deal with in a dog I own. 

Yes, you can train a Northern breed not to howl, but you have a harder job, as you are working against a trait that comes naturally to MOST EXAMPLES OF THE BREED. You can train a bull breed dog to play nicely with strange dogs, but you are working against a trait that comes naturally to MOST EXAMPLES OF THE BREEDS. It isn't a value judgment, it just is what it is. If we could just deal with bully breed aggression as another breed trait to manage, the discussion could be a lot more productive. 

And I'll just bet your AmStaff rescue friend doesn't blithely throw new strange rescues in with her dachshunds.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

I know many of us are passionate about a number of dog topics, but this thread has gone way off topic. The OP asked about breeds that get along with mini poodles and she's expressed more than once that Staffies are now off the table. Could we maybe get the thread back on track and perhaps move further pit bull discussion to a new thread in the Off Topic forum?


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

How about Boston Terrier, Pug, or a sheltie? The Boston Terrier will be easy in the grooming department.

Every poodle's preference in temperament and play style is different. Leroy (standard) LOVE huskies. He will recognize them immediately and always wants to play. It's usually a game of chase or tag. The Sheltie on the small dog side really likes Leroy and they tried to play when that dog came over to the big dog side. Another game of chase. Leroy does like rough play but he dislikes body checking. He avoids older bully breeds cause that's all they want to do. He loves playing with adolescent large breeds like Great Danes, Bernese Mountain dogs, Great Pyrenees, and Rhodesian Ridgebacks.

My preferences lean towards low shedding/low dander dogs (due to husband's allergies) so usually the suggestions that are on the tip of my tongue are high maintenance grooming dogs. If you were looking for this type of dog, I'd suggest a Bichon! They are so cute. I also like dogs that are happy-go-lucky, with "soft' personalities. I have nothing against bully breeds but I just know that I could not handle so much power on the other end of the leash!


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## lrkellly (Jan 6, 2012)

Sprout, my mini, loves all kinds of dogs, but his best friends are:

Black lab mix, Cotton de Tulear (who is sooo cute), beagles, cairn terriers, dachshunds, AND one of his best friends is a Newfoundland, although she is very large and we have to monitor their playing. 

Sprout has also played a few times with a doberman, and they were totally fine. This dog was about a year old, and I felt Sprout was totally safe with him.

Getting a dog who is the same age could help them to get along as chances are their energy levels will be similar. If you don't want to have to monitor their play-time, then I would think twice about getting a large dog and look for a medium or small dog.


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