# How to remove mats without being shaved down?



## Zmyjka

Sara&Audi said:


> Hi,
> I brush my dog EVERY SINGLE DAY with a pin brush. Somehow she has become very matted again.. The groomer I visited today for a quote said she would have to use a 8 or 10"( I think) and shave her completely down. I am really confused and upset since I just had her shaved 4 months ago from matting when we adopted her. I was completely determined for her never to get matted again. The big problem is that it is freezing cold and I, in truth, really don't want to have a bald dog again. Any hope or tips I can possibly remove these mats? They are mostly around her neck, and upper back.
> Thank you.
> 
> Note: she has not seen a groomer in 4 months other than a nail trim. She is bathed weekly with a natural oatmeal shampoo.


Try some special products for brushing mats out of dog hair - for example All Systems MOISTURIZING PROTECTOR & ENHANCER, Pure Paws Classic Line Shine Conditioning Spray or Ultra Shine Conditioning Spray or maybe CHRIS CHRISTENSEN ICE ON ICE.


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## Zmyjka

Second thing is, that pin brush is not enough for poodle coat - you probably need some slicker brush and special poodle comb (Pin Brush | Slicker Brush | Metal Comb | #1 All Systems).

Good job makes also adding some salmon oil into food - it makes better hair.


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## mom24doggies

First of all, if she needs to be shaved with an 8 or 10, you are not going to be able to brush those mats out. Those blades are very short and are for tight mats, so if your groomer told you that you can assume they are tight. Have her shaved and start over again is my advise. 

A pin brush is for show coats. Get a good quality soft slicker and use that instead. Don't just run the brush over the top of the coat, (I can almost guarantee that's what you are doing now, it's a very common mistake) line brush. Start at the bottom (feet) and work your way up, holding a section up with your left hand and brushing the section below with your right until you can see the skin. Use a light spray conditioner if you want. I like Ice on Ice, and if your pup has a dry coat or a lot of breakage Pure Paws H2o spray works wonders. After brushing, go back and run through everything with a comb, re brushing any areas that catch. Don't use a comb to pull through mats though. 

You need to have her groomed more more often than every 4 months.....that isn't enough. That combined with the fact that you haven't been brushing thoroughly AND you are bathing her probably without blow drying is what has caused the mats. Bathing a mat causes it to tighten up, making it harder to remove. So for 4 months you have been bathing those mats in. 

As far as how often she should be groomed, it depends on the clip. If you want her fluffy, every 4 weeks for a clip is good. She will however need to be bathed and brushed out at least once in between, and brushed every couple of days. A lot of customers at my shop come in every two weeks....one appointment they get a bath and blow dry with a face feet and tail trim and the next they get a full haircut. That works fine for most dogs, and if you brush her in between you won't ever run into trouble again. 

Your other option is to learn how to do everything yourself. If you want I can explain how to go about that. 


ETA: please don't try to brush her out this time....those mats are probably very big and tight, brushing them out WILL be painful. Let the groomer clip her down, you can always put a sweater on her.


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## Ladyscarletthawk

I agree with m24d. It is very painful to demat a dog altho some are more tolerant than others. My preferred method to demat a dog is to shave it as it is the more humane option. If I have to demat I use my le pooch mat zapper and in extreme cases I will use a mat breaker to cut the mats into smaller mats. I haven't found anything in particular that helps with heavy mats coat dressing wise. I also go thru the dog with a comb to make sure there are no mats. Always, always use a comb to check your work regardless of brush used. Combs don't lie!

NOTE: dematting causes coat to break into differing lengths which means the coat will mat easier next time as the smaller strands wrap around the longer ones. Another reason to just start over.


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## N2Mischief

I just want to add that you have gotten really good advice. When you brush a poodle and don't get down to the skin (even though you think you are) and then you bathe the dog and don't blow it out correctly, the matting will continue to tighten. Every time you bathe they get even tighter. Also, you may have to use a sweater because your dog will be quite short. As your poodle grows out, the sweater can cause mats if you dont take it off and brush correctly every day.


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## faerie

Have your groomer show you how to properly brush your pup


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## mulligan

excellent advice here. I have been shamed by my groomer, more than once. I really thought I was doing it right! I would also recommend a shave down, get the right equipment and start over. Proper brushing is not difficult once you know how to do it. Starting with a short coat you will know that you are brushing down to the skin and as it grows you will know if you are still getting down to the skin. You might want to have the groomer leave bracelets, just so she doesn't look so pathetically skinny legged.:-D As far as cold, a coat or sweater will be good enough. I assume she spends more time indoors than outside anyway.


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## mom24doggies

Here is a video I made with my Lhasa about brushing. I really like the brush I used in it, I think someone have you the link to it earlier in the thread. It does a great job of getting out tangles without pulling too much or brush burning the dog.


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## Fluffyspoos

I thought your Lhases was a punk for grooming? (; He's making you a liar! Look at that good boy! Great video! I wish we could teach our clients this, and have them follow it!


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## mom24doggies

Fluffyspoos said:


> I thought your Lhases was a punk for grooming? (; He's making you a liar! Look at that good boy! Great video! I wish we could teach our clients this, and have them follow it!


Lol yah I guess he is making me a liar! It's just sometimes that he is a punk...mostly he wants to sit down. You can see that in the video, as soon as I let go of his leg and move to the tail he plunks down. Even during my competition I had to put a belly strap on him to hold him up as I was working on his front, he's such a lazy bum! I've pretty much just learned to deal with it there isn't any sense in getting frustrated with him.  When I posted about him I had probably just had a bad day with him lol.


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## Lou

Great how to brush your dog video!!! I had no clue of what i was doin! Lou has long hair all over, i dont think she has mats cause I brush her (incorrectly) but often, but I cant wait to try lifting the hair and brushing like you showed on the video, hope i dont find hidden mats!! Thank you 


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## PoodlePowerBC

I think because you have a poodle/bichon cross he has a different coat than a poodle would. Maybe because Bichons have finer hair? My sister has a cross as well, and she gets her dog groomed every 2 weeks because it matts so quickly. I recommended to her that she uses a comb and makes sure that she gets right down to the skin at the very least in the areas the dog matts the worst.


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## Sara&Audi

Sorry for the late reply, it was finals week(fun, fun). 
Thank you all for the advice. I made an appointment for next monday. I visited the groomers, and one of the groomers showed me how to properly brush her. She has to be completely shaved down and start over again..  I never bought a slicker brush before since they always said on the packaging for reducing shedding and removing loose hair, lol.
I will pay attention to her hair more often now with frequent grooming visits, blowdrying after baths, and brushing with a slicker brush.


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## Sara&Audi

mom24doggies said:


> First of all, if she needs to be shaved with an 8 or 10, you are not going to be able to brush those mats out. Those blades are very short and are for tight mats, so if your groomer told you that you can assume they are tight. Have her shaved and start over again is my advise.
> 
> A pin brush is for show coats. Get a good quality soft slicker and use that instead. Don't just run the brush over the top of the coat, (I can almost guarantee that's what you are doing now, it's a very common mistake) line brush. Start at the bottom (feet) and work your way up, holding a section up with your left hand and brushing the section below with your right until you can see the skin. Use a light spray conditioner if you want. I like Ice on Ice, and if your pup has a dry coat or a lot of breakage Pure Paws H2o spray works wonders. After brushing, go back and run through everything with a comb, re brushing any areas that catch. Don't use a comb to pull through mats though.
> 
> You need to have her groomed more more often than every 4 months.....that isn't enough. That combined with the fact that you haven't been brushing thoroughly AND you are bathing her probably without blow drying is what has caused the mats. Bathing a mat causes it to tighten up, making it harder to remove. So for 4 months you have been bathing those mats in.
> 
> As far as how often she should be groomed, it depends on the clip. If you want her fluffy, every 4 weeks for a clip is good. She will however need to be bathed and brushed out at least once in between, and brushed every couple of days. A lot of customers at my shop come in every two weeks....one appointment they get a bath and blow dry with a face feet and tail trim and the next they get a full haircut. That works fine for most dogs, and if you brush her in between you won't ever run into trouble again.
> 
> Your other option is to learn how to do everything yourself. If you want I can explain how to go about that.
> 
> 
> ETA: please don't try to brush her out this time....those mats are probably very big and tight, brushing them out WILL be painful. Let the groomer clip her down, you can always put a sweater on her.


Thank you! 
One question, is a conditioner needed for her hair or is a good quality shampoo enough with through blow drying after?


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## 3dogs

Great advice from everyone. Most important is the comb, comb, combe every section you brush put a comb through. The comb tells the truth. Some people only use pin brushes but you ha e to whip out that comb to double & triple check. If you bathe then the mats need to be out. Use a good conditioner to help separate those mats. A good detangler is a must. CC Ice on Ice has been mentioned, also mane & tail detangler works well. Some people like The Stuff, heck even Infusiom for humans is really nice.? I think that if your groomer was to " wet shave" you could possibly run a #4 right under those mats. I personally have never done anything shorter than a #7 except for the rare cases of 1x a year client. Wet shave is amazing & then once blown dry usually can leave 1 blade length longer.


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## paisley pup

3dogs said:


> Great advice from everyone. Most important is the comb, comb, combe every section you brush put a comb through. The comb tells the truth. Some people only use pin brushes but you ha e to whip out that comb to double & triple check. If you bathe then the mats need to be out. Use a good conditioner to help separate those mats. A good detangler is a must. CC Ice on Ice has been mentioned, also mane & tail detangler works well. Some people like The Stuff, heck even Infusiom for humans is really nice.? I think that if your groomer was to " wet shave" you could possibly run a #4 right under those mats. I personally have never done anything shorter than a #7 except for the rare cases of 1x a year client. Wet shave is amazing & then once blown dry usually can leave 1 blade length longer.




I've never heard of wet shaving wouldn't that ruin your blades?


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## mom24doggies

Sara&Audi said:


> Thank you!
> One question, is a conditioner needed for her hair or is a good quality shampoo enough with through blow drying after?


 You are welcome! Well, it depends. I personally like a conditioner, my poodles have more delicate coats, so in order to keep their coats strong they need a conditioner. So it depends on your dog's coat type really as well as how often you bathe and how long her hair is. Climate also plays into it, a dog living in a damper climate won't need as much conditioner, whereas here in Texas the heat just sucks the moisture right out of hair! Either way, conditioner probably won't hurt. I like spectrum one or Coat Handler for my every day stuff. They make them feel smooth and look shiny, but keeps that nice puffy poodle look since they aren't heavy and don't weigh the coat down. Every 3-4 baths I use H2o conditioner, kind of as my "deep conditioning treatment". Hope that helped!


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## mom24doggies

paisley pup said:


> I've never heard of wet shaving wouldn't that ruin your blades?


 Not if you dry and oil them afterwards. Actually wet shaving is supposedly easier on the blades, since the water sort of lubricates them and keeps the dirt from dulling them so much.


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## 3dogs

The blades are ruined only by lazy care or lack of care. As stated once done using the blade dry it & oil it. Wet shaving is a great technique that few take advantage of but I have never had to run an 8 or 10 through a coat that is as short as the OP. Since it has only been 4 months & the coat was in a shaved condition before I just don't see a short blade as needed. I personally would try & find a different groomer.


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## star

I would check with another groomer, a 10 blade seems very excessive. I have had dogs come in severely matted and I can usually get by with a #7f blade. You have gotton some great advice. Always brush then use a comb to check your work. Oh yes use a good quality conditioner after you shampoo 

Wet shaving is good but with a cordless clipper, you don't want to zap yourself. The blades stay cooler, just dry and oil them when done.


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## mom24doggies

3dogs said:


> The blades are ruined only by lazy care or lack of care. As stated once done using the blade dry it & oil it. Wet shaving is a great technique that few take advantage of but I have never had to run an 8 or 10 through a coat that is as short as the OP. Since it has only been 4 months & the coat was in a shaved condition before I just don't see a short blade as needed. I personally would try & find a different groomer.


 If the op has been bathing his/her dog without brushing her out correctly and then not blow drying afterwards, yeah 4 months is plenty of time for that to happen IMO. I've seen it first hand. Poodles grow so quickly! However I do agree that wet shaving might save a bit of coat...but like you said few groomers use or even know about it. I know about it, but I don't use it mainly because the people I work for are a bit old fashioned and they wouldn't like it. Love them to death though!


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## 3dogs

I personally haven't seen a poodle that was previosly shaved down to grow so fast & get so solid that a groomer needs to use a 10 blade on it, in just 4 months. I am sure some effort to just lift the mats off the skin & a wet shave will save coat. Then there are some groomers that automatically shave a dog that has any tpe of matting. To the OP please take a picture of the matted neck & body.


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## mom24doggies

3dogs said:


> I personally haven't seen a poodle that was previosly shaved down to grow so fast & get so solid that a groomer needs to use a 10 blade on it, in just 4 months. I am sure some effort to just lift the mats off the skin & a wet shave will save coat. Then there are some groomers that automatically shave a dog that has any tpe of matting. To the OP please take a picture of the matted neck & body.


 The op was bathing the dog, accelerating the matting process. Plus I am sure the dog wears a collar, or maybe even a harness/ sweater. It can happen. I have seen it. Although you are probably right it may not require a #10....a 7 or 5 might suffice. And with wet shaving, even more coat could be saved.


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## lindasdoggrooming

mom24doggies said:


> The op was bathing the dog, accelerating the matting process. Plus I am sure the dog wears a collar, or maybe even a harness/ sweater. It can happen. I have seen it. Although you are probably right it may not require a #10....a 7 or 5 might suffice. And with wet shaving, even more coat could be saved.


I agree with Mom24, a dog that is bathed and not blown out then not brushed correctly is probably matted to the skin. I see them all the time in my shop. A 10 is extreme but best case is a wet shave to save as much hair as possible and easier on the dog. A comb is your best friend when you own a poodle.


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## BigRedDog

*Brushing Correctly*

First of all I do sympathize with you. It's tricky to learn how to brush these dogs correctly but I can explain step-by-step and you won't have any more problems.
I would not try to de-mat your dog, it's very time consuming and hard on both of you, go ahead and start from scratch again. When the hair starts growing back, even before it's long, get into the habit of brushing every (2) days. That's as long as you can go.
Start at the back of the dog with her body against you, lift the fur until you can see the skin,(this is very important). You can brush and brush the surface and never get to the skin which I think is the problem here.
hold the hair down and brush a section at a time until you have no resistance to the slicker brush ( slicker not pin brush) then take your comb and comb that section. If you hold the hair down, it will not pull and hurt. It should not bother the dog at all.When it is brushed correctly, there should be no resistance, the comb should go through like your own hair. IF it doesn't...brush the section more.. Do this all over the dog...head to toe. Finish by running the comb over the entire dog.
You will need a good Universal slicker brush. A good metal comb with long teeth(greyhound is good). If you take excellent care of the coat, you could switch to a pin brush which is very nice and will keep the coat beautiful. You will always need to check with the comb and make sure the coat is combed...all the way to the skin.


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## BigRedDog

*Brushing Correctly*

First of all I do sympathize with you. It's tricky to learn how to brush these dogs correctly but I can explain step-by-step and you won't have any more problems.
I would not try to de-mat your dog, it's very time consuming and hard on both of you, go ahead and start from scratch again. When the hair starts growing back, even before it's long, get into the habit of brushing every (2) days. That's as long as you can go.
Start at the back of the dog with her body against you, lift the fur until you can see the skin,(this is very important). You can brush and brush the surface and never get to the skin which I think is the problem here.
hold the hair down and brush a section at a time until you have no resistance to the slicker brush ( slicker not pin brush) then take your comb and comb that section. If you hold the hair down, it will not pull and hurt. It should not bother the dog at all.When it is brushed correctly, there should be no resistance, the comb should go through like your own hair. IF it doesn't...brush the section more.. Do this all over the dog...head to toe. Finish by running the comb over the entire dog.
You will need a good Universal slicker brush. A good metal comb with long teeth(greyhound is good). If you take excellent care of the coat, you could switch to a pin brush which is very nice and will keep the coat beautiful. You will always need to check with the comb and make sure the coat is combed...all the way to the skin.


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## 3dogs

The following pictures are of a Doodle dog BUT to show that with the right dog, coat, shampoo, conditioner, detangler, & brushes & combs a groomer can remove mats without hurting the dog. It has been 7 wks since he was last in. Many a groomer would have taken 1 look at this dog & grabbed for their 7 blade. Pictures show a freshly bathed dog. Now time to dry & remove mats at the same time. I enclosed 2 pictures that show my HV dryer on the coat separating the coat to the skin & no mats, also NO Whip knots going on at all on this long coat.


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## Fluffyspoos

Amazing work, 3dog! I hope you charged accordingly!


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## liljaker

I ws going to suggest slicker, too. Whenever I ask my groomer if a pin brush is better, she wrinkles her nose and says to us the slicker. So, that's what I do.


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## 3dogs

On this Doodle I only used 3 grooming tools. A Mat breaker, Greyhound comb, & a 16 mm CC T brush which looks a great deal like a Pin. I don't use a slicker on this particular dog because due to the wide mats a slicker just causes skin irritation & doesn't remove the mats as well on this coat. Here is the other side. I did take a picture of the hind leg all matted up but it didn't download for some reason,


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## neVar

I rarely use a pin brush on my dogs- the bristles are just way to far apart- never get properly to thebase- 

My go to now is my Les pooches brushes- silver for a poodle- matt zapper if there's matts to save my silver brush. Before that? Comb and a slicker brush. 

I like my silver LP Brush as it has the best pin brush on the one side- so many pins vs a regular pin brush


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## Sara&Audi

3dogs said:


> I personally haven't seen a poodle that was previosly shaved down to grow so fast & get so solid that a groomer needs to use a 10 blade on it, in just 4 months. I am sure some effort to just lift the mats off the skin & a wet shave will save coat. Then there are some groomers that automatically shave a dog that has any tpe of matting. To the OP please take a picture of the matted neck & body.


Here she is before being groomed.


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## Sara&Audi

mom24doggies said:


> The op was bathing the dog, accelerating the matting process. Plus I am sure the dog wears a collar, or maybe even a harness/ sweater. It can happen. I have seen it. Although you are probably right it may not require a #10....a 7 or 5 might suffice. And with wet shaving, even more coat could be saved.


I see my mistake now over the months, I can't believe I thought just letting her air dry was sufficient.  I cannot thank you enough for enlightening me! She is my first dog so I'm still learning, lol.


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## Sara&Audi

Thank you all for your help! I took her to the groomers on monday, and the groomer did a great job. I requested her ears, paws, and tail not to be shaved. I also asked for pom poms on her paws, and a shaved clean face. I absolutely love the new look! I hope on maintaining this new look.

*For some reason uploading pictures on this reply isn't working *


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## mom24doggies

Well, I can't say with certainty since I cannot feel her, but I doubt a 10 was needed on her mats and I hope they didn't use a 10! That could contribute to her itching...some dogs don't do well with super short clips. She's a cutie though, and I'm glad your groomer could salvage some of her coat and keep her the way you wanted! If you have more questions, feel free to ask us.


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## Indiana

Sarah, good thinking about the pom-poms and the fluffy tk and ears...it makes a dog look stylish even with a very short clip. She is a real cutie! Oh and Mom24, just looked at the photo of your dogs and finally realized what an ACD is....in another thread you mentioned he's 14 years old and I was thinking, ACD, ACD...what is that breed? ha,ha!


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## mom24doggies

Indiana said:


> Sarah, good thinking about the pom-poms and the fluffy tk and ears...it makes a dog look stylish even with a very short clip. She is a real cutie! Oh and Mom24, just looked at the photo of your dogs and finally realized what an ACD is....in another thread you mentioned he's 14 years old and I was thinking, ACD, ACD...what is that breed? ha,ha!


 Lol yeah, it's annoying to type out Australian Cattle Dog every time I'm talking about her!


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## Marcoislandmom

Karat is going through coat change and gets mats behind her elbows and on her chest and neck. I use coconut oil (which is solid at room temperature) and rub it into the mat. Then I carefully heat the area with my hair dryer until the coconut oil gets liquid. It then acts as a super conditioner/detangler upon which you can use a poodle comb to comb out the matts. Its a very slow process but seems to help. Karat needs to be brushed and combed daily to assure no mats. This trick, I learned from a gal who is of african desent. She has very curly kinky hair and this is what she, and others of her race, have done for years to get the tangles out. Hope this helps you. It worked for me.


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## My babies

Do you tend to lose some hair when brushing out the Matts?


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## Sara&Audi

mom24doggies said:


> Well, I can't say with certainty since I cannot feel her, but I doubt a 10 was needed on her mats and I hope they didn't use a 10! That could contribute to her itching...some dogs don't do well with super short clips. She's a cutie though, and I'm glad your groomer could salvage some of her coat and keep her the way you wanted! If you have more questions, feel free to ask us.


She's pretty pink, and some parts of her body is just skin, so they may have been a bit excessive. Her itching has gone down thankfully. Thank you and I'm really glad to as I was dreading the reveal, lol. You're awesome for all the help you gave me!


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## Sara&Audi

Indiana said:


> Sarah, good thinking about the pom-poms and the fluffy tk and ears...it makes a dog look stylish even with a very short clip. She is a real cutie! Oh and Mom24, just looked at the photo of your dogs and finally realized what an ACD is....in another thread you mentioned he's 14 years old and I was thinking, ACD, ACD...what is that breed? ha,ha!


Thanks  I got quite a few compliments while shopping with her after she got shaved.


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## Sara&Audi

Marcoislandmom said:


> Karat is going through coat change and gets mats behind her elbows and on her chest and neck. I use coconut oil (which is solid at room temperature) and rub it into the mat. Then I carefully heat the area with my hair dryer until the coconut oil gets liquid. It then acts as a super conditioner/detangler upon which you can use a poodle comb to comb out the matts. Its a very slow process but seems to help. Karat needs to be brushed and combed daily to assure no mats. This trick, I learned from a gal who is of african desent. She has very curly kinky hair and this is what she, and others of her race, have done for years to get the tangles out. Hope this helps you. It worked for me.


Hmm.. interesting. I'll try that, thanks!


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## Sara&Audi

Pictures of her groom. Geez, I am having issues with my pictures.. I tried fixing it! Sorry about them being upside down!


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## outwest

Her trim is very cute. You might always have problems with her matting easily because she is a poodle mix. When you combine the two types of coats, they matt. Many doodles matt horribly. Take heart because you should be able to maintain her cute cut, although brushing fuzzy feet can be challenging.  I am glad you are happy with her new look!


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## -Lilith-

I won't wet shave. Don't want to do it. As a groomer, your dog will get shaved if it comes in matted. I'm not in this business to rip hair out. You may need to get her on a maintenance schedule. 


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