# Trying to narrow down my choices - looking for some direction



## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

No, you are not picky. Don't be embarrassed for knowing what you want and doing your homework.

I like Noriko - honest and very willing to work with potential buyers - but as far as I know she docks tails. But it never hurts to call her and see if you can work out something.

Another one that's not on your list is Karen of Desert Reef. She docks tails too but again, it never hurts to just call Karen up and talk. She is very knowledgable and honest and super pleasant to talk to. I know she sometimes has petite spoos.

If you want red/apricot spoos, have you checked out NOLA NOLA Standards - fine red standard poodles ? 

Would you consider an oversized mini? Mine is 17.5" tall and weighs 20 lbs. Would that work for your family and your poodle mix? I feel that it's easier to find an oversized mini that a small spoo in the size you are looking for (17-20").


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Sotoya said:


> Hello all!
> 
> I am looking to add a poodle to my family in the next few years and have been having a heck of a time trying to narrow down a breeder from some amazing ones I've found. I guess I'll say what I'm looking for and then who I've been thinking of.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for including us in your list. Our pups tend to be average or the smaller side of average, but no, we never have any as small as you would like. When I read the top half of your post, the first breeder I thought of was Karbit. There are a few members here who have furkids from her and they are delighted with their choice.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Sotoya said:


> As far as requirements goes, health testing, temperament, tail, color and in that order. I want a breeder who waits to test their dogs until at least 2 years of age and I want those tests to come back with flying colors!
> ...
> Bayrock (formerly Barefoot) Poodles - Again, full testing, natural tails (from what I can tell), temperament testing, eager to educate, very informative. However, whenever I see different prices for different color dogs in a litter, it raises a red flag. I understand it takes a while to get a color you're proud of but I guess it's difficult for me to understand justifying a change in price in the same litter since it's difficult to tell what color the puppy is going to be when it grows up (even _with_ knowing the colors in their pedigree).
> ...
> -Katie


Love to hear how careful you are being in your research! Best of luck as you search for the perfect companion.

Bayrock/Barefoot does not wait until their dogs are 2 years old. Currently, they have a 9.5 week old pup advertised on their site from a LaRoux x Victor breeding. If you check the pedigrees on poodlepedigree.com, you will see that LaRoux (Karbits H Barefoot Sienna La Roux) was born on 2/19/2011 and Victor (Kayekids Barefoot Bon Voyage) was born on 7/25/2011. So if the pup is 9.5 weeks old, it would have been born in early August, and bred in early June. In early June, LaRoux would have been 16 months old and Victor would have been about 10 1/2 months old! Wow.

BTW, poodlepedigree.com is a great tool for checking the age of parent dogs. This is not the only litter of Barefoot's from young dogs, and Barefoot is not the only breeder to do this. Interesting to search a breeder's name and then see how many litters are born to moms (or dads) that are less than 2 years old.


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

Just a mention about temperament testing- i don't do temperament testing at 7 weeks. But i do place my puppies based on temperament to the right homes. For kicks we temperament tested my aussie litter this year- yeah every dog went to the same home i had already determined- it just confirmed what i new. I Do think that for breeders who are in a kennel situation temperament testing is a good tool. For those of us who have the pups in our house exposed to many things- we already know who reacts what way in most situations. 

IM assuming by tail you mean FULL tail?  you may want to look at Silken (who i got my bella from) she has started doing OFAs on her dogs (Vs just Geulph) I was quite pleased dealing with her when i got my Bella from her- very good to work with.


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## Rayah-QualitySPs (Aug 31, 2010)

neVar said:


> she has started doing OFAs on her dogs (Vs just Geulph)


Hi neVar the University of Guelph does not evaluate hip x-rays anymore.


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## Sotoya (Jul 3, 2012)

schnauzerpoodle said:


> No, you are not picky. Don't be embarrassed for knowing what you want and doing your homework.
> 
> I like Noriko - honest and very willing to work with potential buyers - but as far as I know she docks tails. But it never hurts to call her and see if you can work out something.
> 
> ...


Desert Reef was actually on my radar when I was thinking spoo but from an initial viewing of her site it seemed like most of her dogs were on the larger/heavier end. I haven't actually contacted her yet (sometimes I get self-conscious because I feel like I'm emailing different breeders the same questions and fear they might be talking with each other! "Did you hear from so-and-so? Hey! I heard from her too! I thought she was interested in my dogs?" Eep!) but I will keep her on my radar for sure. Her dogs are very beautiful!

I had heard of NOLA but their website didn't offer as much info on first look. Again with me not wanting to come off as too flighty in emailing breeders. I should probably get over that because I'm sure great breeders expect people to look at all the options and want to give you the best information that they can 

As far as an oversized mini, I didn't want to offend anyone on here by saying oversized mini vs. klein/moyen. I'm not sure how particular people are when it comes to size classification and I didn't want it to seem like I didn't know what I was talking about by just saying an oversized mini (which really seems like it would fit the bill!). But yes, your pup sounds just delightful in size and weight! May I ask where your baby came from?



ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> Thanks so much for including us in your list. Our pups tend to be average or the smaller side of average, but no, we never have any as small as you would like. When I read the top half of your post, the first breeder I thought of was Karbit. There are a few members here who have furkids from her and they are delighted with their choice.


You're very welcome! I didn't think you had smaller kiddies but it doesn't hurt to dream  And I do keep coming back to Karbit in my search. I just wanted to branch out to make sure I wasn't just having tunnel vision and to get a good idea of what other breeders test for, how they raise & socialize their pups, etc.



> BTW, poodlepedigree.com is a great tool for checking the age of parent dogs. This is not the only litter of Barefoot's from young dogs, and Barefoot is not the only breeder to do this. Interesting to search a breeder's name and then see how many litters are born to moms (or dads) that are less than 2 years old.


It might be the nerd in me, but I really enjoy poking around poodlepedigree.com and offa.org. It's pretty fun to see where a particular dog came from and what kind of testing it's done. As far as learning how early Bayrock breeds, it makes me sad to think about  There's a doodle breeder that comes into our clinic with her puppies and it pains me and the doctors to hear that she breeds dogs that are less than a year old and that have obvious anxiety issues. It's good and bad to be as familiar as I am with testing because on the one hand I'm better able to evaluate potential breeders, but on the other hand sometimes I'd rather not think about the problems that breeder's puppies & breeding dogs might have in the future 



neVar said:


> Just a mention about temperament testing- i don't do temperament testing at 7 weeks. But i do place my puppies based on temperament to the right homes. For kicks we temperament tested my aussie litter this year- yeah every dog went to the same home i had already determined- it just confirmed what i new. I Do think that for breeders who are in a kennel situation temperament testing is a good tool. For those of us who have the pups in our house exposed to many things- we already know who reacts what way in most situations.
> 
> IM assuming by tail you mean FULL tail?  you may want to look at Silken (who i got my bella from) she has started doing OFAs on her dogs (Vs just Geulph) I was quite pleased dealing with her when i got my Bella from her- very good to work with.


One of the things I find interesting about temperament testing is that they take the pups out of a familiar environment and place them into something new with someone new. Obviously great breeders will pretty much know the personalities of their dogs if they do all the legwork when it comes to socialization and early stimulation, but I like to think of temperament testing as another tool that can help determine good family fits. Then again, they could test as one number and grow up into another. Proper nurturing & guidance when young and as they grow can usually make for a happy pup and family 

And yes, I've looked at & emailed Silken, but I think their size might be one of the only things that I'm hesitant about.

Thank you all for the great responses! There's a lot to mull over and it's never a chore to think about and look at beautiful dogs all day


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Sotoya said:


> As far as an oversized mini, I didn't want to offend anyone on here by saying oversized mini vs. klein/moyen. I'm not sure how particular people are when it comes to size classification and I didn't want it to seem like I didn't know what I was talking about by just saying an oversized mini (which really seems like it would fit the bill!). But yes, your pup sounds just delightful in size and weight! May I ask where your baby came from?


I got mine from Aery. There are quite a few oversized minis here. Off the top of my head would be Chagall, a silver boy from Cabryn Poodles For Sale and Beau, the beautiful handsome white boy from Noriko.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Tiara poodles may offer the size you are looking for. I would have also suggested Karbit but you already have them on your list.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

i had the pleasure of meeting a few aery poodles recently. really nice dogs.


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## happybooker1 (Dec 6, 2011)

Sotoya said:


> As far as an oversized mini, I didn't want to offend anyone on here by saying oversized mini vs. klein/moyen. I'm not sure how particular people are when it comes to size classification and I didn't want it to seem like I didn't know what I was talking about by just saying an oversized mini (which really seems like it would fit the bill!). QUOTE]
> 
> Nah, you're good. Now if you'd asked for a smaller-than-normal TOY poodle you'd have been in trouble.


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

Curious as to exactly what information you are looking for on a website.

Possibly - likely - won't result in me promoting pups for sale - as that isn't my purpose, but I am curious as to what people find "informative".

And something to think about....Waiting 'til 2 to breed is one thing - waiting until 2 for testing is another. ESPECIALLY if a breeder is investing in the dog - not just waiting on it to be old enough to breed.

I begin testing my Krewe around 9 months and testing is repeated throughout their breeding lives.

You will find breeders who show will dock with an eye towards balance - usually resulting in a much longer dock than those who don't (participate in conformation competition).

And dogs (and bitches) in the ring are typically smaller than those who are not. My girls are 20 inches, Lombardi (that's now AKC GRAND CH Lombardi for those that don't know) is 25", though I don't think you will find breeder/owner handlers ever promoting their lines as "moyen" or undersized/small standards, because we don't consider them to be (undersized) and do not recognize moyen as a size in the U.S.
_(Edited to add there are some breeders who have imported a size recognized and registered as Moyen in Europe. Not sure beyond that if they are importing collections as well when breeding or if they have imported both male and female. Not what I'm interested in at all and therefore off my radar.)._

Best of Luck in your search.

Tabatha
NOLA Standards


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## Sotoya (Jul 3, 2012)

NOLA Standards said:


> Curious as to exactly what information you are looking for on a website.
> 
> Possibly - likely - won't result in me promoting pups for sale - as that isn't my purpose, but I am curious as to what people find "informative".
> 
> ...


I guess personal preference is test results and pedigrees promoted or easily accessible, information on where/how they're raised, what their diet is, what their height/weight is and the other things I listed before. It's nice to know these things at a glance, but on the flip side without them it forces individual communication between breeder and potential buyer. 

As far as testing/breeding goes, that's what I meant by waiting until 2. Plus at 2 the hips are going to be able to be reliably tested as opposed to preliminary evaluations. So I guess I should have been more specific in that 

Also, I've found it to be a bit difficult to find specific sizes of standard poodles since the range is so open ended (15" +). So I figure if I say I'm looking for a moyen/klein people will know more of what I'm talking about vs. a "small standard" because that could be variable dependent on the breeder (ie. someone's small could be 22" and another could be 24"). I believe peppersb on this forum started smallstandardpoodles.com as a way to help people find more information on spoos of the smaller end, but it is still in its infancy. I think it's a good idea for people looking for something a bit smaller 

Thank you everyone for the additional suggestions - Tiara, Aery, Cabryn! It's so very helpful!


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

Thanks, Soytoya.

If I promote a litter on NOLAStandards.com, I'll remember your requests for easily accessible information. :angel2:

Hope you find the perfect "small standard".

Tabatha
NOLA Standards


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

Just a comment on Aery -- a friend of mine recently got an Aery large mini. She's stunning-- magnificent, spirited, friendly -- really an amazing dog. If our house weren't full I would have been on the phone with them already.


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