# breeding a good idea or no?



## katey96 (Aug 20, 2009)

ok before i start I would like some serious answers and no hostile ones please.

I have my minature puppy and me and my fiance are debating whether to spay her.

I want to breed her as she has a good temperment, no health issues and shes gorgeous. I want to keep her line going and have a pup of hers as well. I know that other people would like to buy her pups if I breed her also. 

He says to spay as there is health issues involved. Such as small dogs have bad time giving birth, cancer, and she will live longer which i would love also. 

i am having a really bad time. We had made the deal that if we cant breed her than I am allowed to get to rescue pups but i am very torn. 

help? I would like some opinions please!


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

You aren't going to get the answer to breed her from most of the people here. I think that there needs to be a reason you want to breed her other than the ones you've listed. Breeding should be about bettering the breed and I don't think all dogs need to be show dogs in order to do that but you have to think long and hard about why you want to do that and if in the long run you've done something positive for your breed by breeding your dog.


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## katey96 (Aug 20, 2009)

I totally understand but I know it would be better not to. I still want to rescue pups out there. I dont think I am going to breed her but its hard as she is perfect to breed and will continue to keep the breed better than others have. 

I think i just need some strength to go ahead and get the spay and have good reasons behind it from others than the ones in my family.


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## gwtwmum2 (Sep 14, 2008)

Are you willing to get her and whoever you mate her with health tested? Saying she is "healthy" really isn't a good guarantee. But health tests do help. Also, I agree that your purpose should be to be better the breed. 
There are so many poodles out there (and other breeds) needing good homes, I would really think twice before deciding that bringing more puppies into the world is the best choice. Especially if NOT breeding her means you are able to help by adopting a rescue dog that already is living and needing a home.


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## gwtwmum2 (Sep 14, 2008)

I think we were typing at the same time. I can definitely say that I understand your struggle. I have a Chinese Crested that is a beautiful example of the breed. It "killed" me to spay her, in that it meant she would definitely never show (which I had toyed with) but in the end, I knew I would not be able to really show her competitively (as I can't travel much) and so I did get her fixed. I am glad I've done it. Good luck as you choose. I think you are smart for thinking it all through.


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

You said she has no health issues; how do you know? What was her OFA rating, how did her CERF testing go, does epilespy run in her bloodline, what about Addison's? You also need to know the ratings for the dogs in her pedigree and whether they've produced affected dogs. See where I'm going? Has she been shown or competed in anything? What about the dog's in her pedigree?


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## katey96 (Aug 20, 2009)

I know, I know i know. Like i said, I would love to breed her but I know I am not. I just need some STRENGTH to get her spayed and choose it as the right decisiion. I do really want to but saving dogs that are already in trouble means alot to me to. I know I am being selfish in breeding her too. I just want some reinforcement and tell me everything is for the better spaying her than not.


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

katey96 said:


> I totally understand but I know it would be better not to. I still want to rescue pups out there. I dont think I am going to breed her but its hard as she is perfect to breed and will continue to keep the breed better than others have.
> 
> I think i just need some strength to go ahead and get the spay and have good reasons behind it from others than the ones in my family.


You kinda just gave yourself the answer there.

Even if your dog is a good example of the breed, it doesn't mean her puppies are going to be. Reputable breeders do a lot of research, and they put a lot of time into picking the perfect stud for their dogs. They don't just breed because the dog is perfect to breed. There are so much more involved in breeding.
If everyone who feels they have a dog perfect to the breed breeds their dog we would REALLY have an issue when it comes to k-9 overpopulation.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Reason to spay? Pyometra!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyometra


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## taxtell (Sep 17, 2009)

cbrand said:


> Reason to spay? Pyometra!
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyometra


That!
And we see alot of breast cancer in dogs that weren't spayed prior to going into heat.


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## Cdnjennga (Jul 30, 2009)

Agreed with the reasons given above. Also consider the stress (and mess) of having a bitch in season every few months. You have to keep them away from other dogs, they might bleed all over your home and they can get pretty bitchy and irritable during that time. Having a bitch in season is no fun and it's easy for them to be accidentally impregnated. You don't want to inadvertently end up with a poo mix!


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## Cdnjennga (Jul 30, 2009)

cbrand said:


> Reason to spay? Pyometra!
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyometra


Pyometra is very scary. A breeder I was recently talking to had to do an emergency spaying on her bitch due to this and it was not a pleasant situation at all.

Sivaro had a scary experience during a breeding recently: http://www.poodleforum.com/showthread.php?t=2994

And the final thing to consider is that you can lose both the bitch and puppies during pregnancy/ whelping. Breeding is not for the faint of heart - could you face it if your girl died because you decided to have puppies?


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## cybercat (Nov 15, 2008)

Beside all the above reason here are a few more. The economy is a good one. Can you make sure the pups you sell will go to home that can afford to take care of them RIGHT. That means grooming every 6 weeks which for poodles that size is normally $35 or more dollars.

To me it sounds like you really rather resucue so do it and fix her. You will be so much happier in the long run. Instead of adding to a problem you will be helping with it. Not saying your pups would end up in shelters but you have no control what happens after they leave you.


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## puppylove (Aug 9, 2009)

You'll feel so much better if you rescue. It's incredibly rewarding.


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## taxtell (Sep 17, 2009)

puppylove said:


> You'll feel so much better if you rescue. It's incredibly rewarding.


So true!!


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## Barbaloo (Oct 7, 2009)

So whats the rush. I have gone thru 3 heats waiting to evaluate my bitch. why don't you let the dog grow for three years to decide then what you want to do.


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## artsycourtneysue (Jul 21, 2009)

My mom went through the same thought process with our bichon for years.....she kept thinking maybe she would breed her, and then at 10 years old, she developed breast cancer....So she went into surgery to both spay her and remove the cancerous lumps. She is doing well now at 13 years old, but now she knows she will spay any puppies early to avoid such situations.

We just had our pup, Cozi, spayed this week, at 7 months. I, too, feel that she is a good example of the breed, and it would be great to have her puppies, but realistically speaking, I don't have time to show her and I don't think I would be doing it for the right reasons. So we are so happy that we did this for her health


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## TinyPoodles (Nov 25, 2009)

*Getting the Breeding bug*

OK I recognize the signs and symptoms here...LOL

If I am correct (maybe I'm not) I don't think you will easily get over this Breeding Bug...

Sooo why don't you examine what you have to work with here.

1. WHat was the contract and breeding agreement you purchased her under ?
If you tell me "non-breeding" OK you are done.

2. Is she AKC registered ?
If you tell me "no" ..ok you are done.

3. What is her 5 generation pedigree ?
if you don't have this you really do need it.
You can start out with a free one using your AKC registered parent's names
www.poodlepedigree.com but you really do need to order an official one (including colors) from AKC. 

*Above are basic starting points you should check BEFORE even going any further. *

EVERY breeder has had to start somewhere and in my experience MOST breeders have started out with this nagging feeling that they would like to "try" breeding and eventually, they will do it. 

I'm going to talk about the bad stuff now since you should hear that side of it.

I will tell you this... nothing worse that having birthing issues and having to rush to the emergency Vets at triple the price and perhaps not the most experienced VEt to do the C-section and loosing all the pups (maybe one living one) and maybe even the mother and STILL have the $1,000.00-$2,000.00 Veterinary bill
and having already paid the $300.00-$1500.00 stud fee. 
If you took deposits... well you have to pay those back too. 

and what if she has to be spayed after that...you loose all your investment and still have the bills. 

As for dealing with sales... (here is a tip...take only cash when you first start)
bounced checks (from every end of the economic scale)
forged money orders
Money orders from the bank that are cancelled (yes just ask the bank) or you will find out when your mortgage bounces... 
Payment Plans that Stop and you loose

Dealing with people after purchase....
BE prepared for the phone calls of:
why is puppy limping
Why is puppy sneezing
Why is puppy hic cupping
why won't puppy stop barking
Puppy won't stop nipping
Can I return the puppy for a refund
neighbors are complaining about the puppy what should I do
I got a fine from the city because of the noise violation 
Puppy has fleas what should I do 
Puppy has loose stool why is that and should I go to the vet 
Vet says the hospital bill is Breeder's responsibility

Selling to friends or family...
oh boy... better have a contract that covers ALL the bases as you get one medical bill and a dispute over it and that friendship will be on the rocks.
AND... What if they wish to breed

Registration....
Where are my papers
Why didn't I get a pedigree
Why didn't I get the insurance or a DVD

Basically if you are selling your pups you make sure to keep at least 50% of that money to cover future expenses. 

Just some things for you to consider... as a "breeder" people want you to know all the answers to everything from behaviour, health to training and as a responsible breeder you SHOULD know these answers.
Buyers also want to know that they bought quality...even if they ony pay $200.00 and actually in my experience, the least they pay the more pet people seem to expect. 

They tend to also view the puppy as more "disposable" if they pay very little.
If a Vet bill is above the price they paid for the puppy... well what are they going to choose, should the puppy need medical care. ANd guess what "breeder" they will give the Vet your name and number and you will get the call "they are going to put the puppy down as they can't afford the medical care. Do you wish to pay for it". 
Of course you will pay for it and then does that mean those people get a refund or that they now keep the puppy ?? What happens ?

Tough choices and expensive.


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## desertreef (Nov 14, 2009)

Seeing how much you love your girl, I think the one reason to enjoy her without pups is the fact you can lose her. Anyone who breeds a litter has to realize, this could be it. How upseting that would be... and it has happened.


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