# Dog heart disease linked to grain-free food, FDA says



## spicandspan (Apr 21, 2018)

This is definitely alarming. Funny how the common wisdom is that corn-based foods are bad for dogs, yet according to this article they didn't trigger heart disease in non-susceptible breeds...

Edit: I found a link on https://petdiets.com/ that seems to pertain to the condition mentioned in the article above. https://petdiets.com/userfiles/files/G Ret DCM Taurine.pdf


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

spicandspan said:


> This is definitely alarming. Funny how the common wisdom is that corn-based foods are bad for dogs, yet according to this article they didn't trigger heart disease in non-susceptible breeds...
> 
> Edit: I found a link on https://petdiets.com/ that seems to pertain to the condition mentioned in the article above. https://petdiets.com/userfiles/files/G Ret DCM Taurine.pdf


Thanks Spicandspan


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Glad I'm feeding my dogs food with grain!


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Dogs are omnivorous. Most of their diet should be meat of various kinds. Yes to also vegetables and fruits. 

The grain free foods often use peas, lentils and potatoes instead of grains. If there are problems with them causing heart disease that doesn't mean grains are nutritious, maybe just not as harmful. A lot of all of these are mainly filler. (Hey, I get yucky tummy from eating peas and lentils and potatoes! Maybe that is keeping me from getting heart disease because I then don't eat them 

I can tell by looking at a dogs poop if they are being fed dog food with a lot of filler in it instead of meat and other nutritious ingredients.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

This honestly does not alarm me as it is a problem caused more or less by a taurine deficiency........read this; 

https://www.petcurean.com/blog/taurine


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Yes, from the research I read the problem is low levels of taurine. It has long been known that cats need to get taurine from their diet, but it was believed that dogs could produce it themselves, as humans can. There has been research to show that some individuals - and possibly some breeds - do not produce enough. If an affected dog is fed a diet low in taurine (which is found in meat but not in vegetable protein) it could lead to heart problems. Simple solution - feed more meat, or supplement with taurine.


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

kontiki said:


> ... I can tell by looking at a dogs poop if they are being fed dog food with a lot of filler in it instead of meat and other nutritious ingredients.


This got me curious so I googled, and found this helpful chart:

Stool Chart aka Dog Poop Chart


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I'm glad you posted this, I was also going to ask about it. I read that most of the problems with grain free is coming from the lack of taurine in their diet. I read that taurine is found in muscle meat. I also found that natural balance is one of the manufacturers that add taurine to their foods. Not sure what I might add to help supplement the taurine since we are grain free. For now I bought a big bucket of liver treats and hopefully they have some taurine in them.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Brains and heart are the highest in taurine, followed by any muscle that has worked hard. Tough meat, in other words!


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## Moni (May 8, 2018)

Vita what's strange though is that the Bristol Stool Chart is for humans - with a completely different digestive system. So I am not so sure how the author can appropriate it for dogs - doesn't seem to add up. I am unfortunately very familiar with the Bristol chart because my son has IBS.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I wonder if we added some heart to their meals would that give them enough taurine, but how much and how often, cooked or raw. I know raw probably is better b ut it kind of grosses me out. I guess I could cook up some chicken hearts and us them as treats.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Kontiki is right domestic dogs are really omnivores, as we are. That is logical given our strongly coevolutionary history. Ours dogs are no longer the wolf ancestors they originated from and they don't need to eat like wolves.

I have never subscribed to the notion that grain free was important, but do believe that one has an obligation to feed a quality nutritionally balanced diet. Corn is really problematic for Lily and oats are terrible for the boys, but wheat is good for all of our dogs based on NutriScan testing so they all get whole grain wheat pasta as one of their components of their well designed home cooked diet. Lucky me that Peeves can't eat legumes otherwise I probably would have switched to one of those pea/lentil/potato based brands.

It does seem like this is mostly related to taurine deficiency and as long as you are feeding adequate taurine there is no reason to freak out.


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## mashaphan (Sep 4, 2014)

I am a big fan of fish,since my last whippet could only tolerate fish-based kibble. So, we eat salmon,mackeral (dogs,not me so far),sardines. I noticed some of the dry foods add taurine as well-thought it was only a cat thing,but ok,forward march.

Martha


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

I couldn't get the original citation to load, so I haven't read the article, but, from the comments, it appears low taurine is the problem. If taurine is present in meat, and if you're feeding a high quality kibble, with meat as one of the main ingredients, how can a grain-free diet by the problem?


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Vita, that is a very interesting link. I really liked some of the other articles there!

I too am curious about the poop pics. Most dog poop I see along the trail doesn't look like those.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Another site with actual dog poop photos

https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2015/07/15/assessing-dog-poop.aspx

My imagination is too vivid! I almost thought I could smell it  Haha


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Don't get too worried about the grain free aspect of it. My understanding is that it has something to do with limited ingredient/single protein foods and those with lots of legumes. Of course, avoiding grain free foods with lots of legumes is hard! But seafood based and multi protein foods may be better than those that are limited ingredient and also full of legumes.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

JudyD said:


> I couldn't get the original citation to load, so I haven't read the article, but, from the comments, it appears low taurine is the problem. If taurine is present in meat, and if you're feeding a high quality kibble, with meat as one of the main ingredients, how can a grain-free diet by the problem?


Something to do with the effect of the legumes specifically is one of the going theories


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## JenandSage (Mar 9, 2018)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Don't get too worried about the grain free aspect of it. My understanding is that it has something to do with limited ingredient/single protein foods and those with lots of legumes. Of course, avoiding grain free foods with lots of legumes is hard! But seafood based and multi protein foods may be better than those that are limited ingredient and also full of legumes.


I think most people are summing it up well. There are lots of unknowns about the legumes/potatoes aspect, but there seems to be good information about taurine. 
I vary Sage’s kibble all the time (Acana but the different flavours) and I sometimes use a cheaper grain-free. They still have meat and fish as their main ingredient. I also don’t worry about him getting grains here and there (he eats some grains at his friends’ houses when they feed him). He tolerates everything.
My take away is going to be to add a little more taurine-rich raw food to his diet. He loves that for special treats anyways


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

JenandSage said:


> They still have meat and fish as their main ingredient.


Good! Unfortunately some have peas or grains as their 1st ingredient!


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## mashaphan (Sep 4, 2014)

Ok,so until I run out of this bag of food. my temporary solution is to put rice or oatmeal or couscous (serious lack of other grains at my grocery-no one uses barley anymore?  ) in 1 or 2 of the meals!

Martha


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

mashaphan said:


> Ok,so until I run out of this bag of food. my temporary solution is to put rice or oatmeal or couscous (serious lack of other grains at my grocery-no one uses barley anymore?  ) in 1 or 2 of the meals!
> 
> Martha


If your dog has been eating a good diet daily, then a few days won't hurt the dog. My dog's food is home cooked and I add oatmeal and potato along with her meat.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Hmm, my spoo gets meat, vegetables and some fruit, plus omega 3 oils. We just skip the empty nutrient calories like grains and potatoes. They are mostly fillers.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

kontiki said:


> Hmm, my spoo gets meat, vegetables and some fruit, plus omega 3 oils. We just skip the empty nutrient calories like grains and potatoes. They are mostly fillers.


Kontiki, grains and potatoes aren’t empty fillers, they have plenty of nutrients in them including protein, vitamins and minerals. The key is balance of nutrients.


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## doditwo (Nov 7, 2017)

Do any of the studies say who funded the research?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Skylar said:


> Kontiki, grains and potatoes aren’t empty fillers, they have plenty of nutrients in them including protein, vitamins and minerals. The key is balance of nutrients.


It is very interesting to compare the actual nutrient contents per calorie of meat, veggies and fruits; to grains, potatoes, etc.

There certainly not none, but the contrast is quite something. 
Even in my own diet I have noticed a huge difference in health when eliminating the lesser.


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## dotbowels (Jan 28, 2018)

6 pound toy need food with grain recommendations Need to get my baby off grain free. What’s healthiest with a little grain? Thanks


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Just remember that corn, wheat & soy are considered 'hot' for sensitivities/allergies and go more for foods that perhaps use things like lentils, chickpeas, lima beans, & peas.. That seems to be the way of dog food recipes now............rice, barley and millet are common grains now in foods too. If you go to Chewy.com and look through their foods, you will find the ingredients of each food they sell to give you an idea for a food to try.....then after you have chosen a few go to Dog Food Advisor and see how it's rated! No matter what food you try just make sure the first ingredient listed is a named meat...even better the first 2-3! Ingredients are listed by the amount contained in that particular food so reading labels is important!


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

The story finally made the NY Times.

Possible Link Between Grain-Free Dog Food and Heart Disease, F.D.A. Says


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## RD. (Jul 19, 2016)

Thanks for posting this, a friend sent me the NY Times story this morning. It reminds of a thread I started here a couple of years ago. 

https://www.poodleforum.com/32-poodle-food/209889-have-grains-got-bad-rap.html


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## Bevvie (Jun 17, 2017)

I'm adding this article here because of the vet interview concerning this topic. The interview is nearer the end of the article ... just hit the listen button. He offers a nicely balanced opinion on the topic and is certainly not an alarmist. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/dcm-grain-free-dog-food-1.4762533?cmp=rss


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

My boy eats instinct healthy weight chicken. It’s high quality. I feed It to him to watch his weight because of a pancreatitis flare. Do you think it’s high enough quality that grain free shouldn’t effect the heart?


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

mythrider said:


> My boy eats instinct healthy weight chicken. It’s high quality. I feed It to him to watch his weight because of a pancreatitis flare. Do you think it’s high enough quality that grain free shouldn’t effect the heart?


mythrider, I suggest you make this it's own post so people will see it and can answer you.

My tpoo had pancreatic disease and for the rest of her life (she lived to be 20 yo) she had to stick to her pancreatic diet - at that time I don't believe there was commercial food - I had to make her food at home. I don't know if you will have the same experience, but the two times I went back to her old food - my tpoo had a pancreatic attack.


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## mythrider (Oct 20, 2017)

He’s fine now on his food. I originally had him on instinct beef half raw. Instinct is grain free food mostly. He’s had two bouts but we know how to help him now. I’ll do more research to see if that’s what it is. He’s been on instinct his whole life.


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