# Feeding raw and risks of salmonella through doggy kisses



## MaceeChocKisses (May 19, 2015)

Just was wondering do you brush his teeth... I've heard that it helps!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

MaceeChocKisses said:


> Just was wondering do you brush his teeth... I've heard that it helps!


Yes, I do. But the tartar and plaque were there when I got him 12 days ago. We can't escape the dental now...


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Dechi said:


> Yes, I do. But the tartar and plaque were there when I got him 12 days ago. We can't escape the dental now...



After the dental you surely can keep his teeth clean with daily brushing. But I do think that there are better fiords than kibble. Have you considered freeze dried raw or Ziwipeak? Pricey, but do-able for a Toy.
I do believe that there have been plenty of kibbles and treats recalled for salmonella as well, so I don't think that there is any escaping that remote possibility of kiss contamination....


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think we tend to forget that most of us have a fully functional immune system, which has been developed over millions of years to deal with brushes with smallish quantities of unpleasant microbes. Otherwise we wouldn't be here. I would not feed raw if I had, or lived with someone who had, a compromised immune system but otherwise I take routine raw meat handling precautions and don't worry too much.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

After much research, I found this dehydrated, human grade, grain free food that is said to be the best alternative to raw. It's made in Quebec, Canada (not far from where I live).

CaniSource Dog Food | Review and Rating 

(This review is for their non-grain free food, it's not the one I bought, but similar).

It's 85$ for about 3 months to feed two dogs (a little less than 50 cents per day, per dog).

We'll see how it goes. I hope my finicky Tpoo likes it ! If not I can have all my money back at least...


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Dechi said:


> After much research, I found this dehydrated, human grade, grain free food that is said to be the best alternative to raw. It's made in Quebec, Canada (not far from where I live).
> 
> CaniSource Dog Food | Review and Rating
> 
> ...



Seems like there is a lot of unnecessary grain in that food...


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## kayla_baxter (Jul 17, 2015)

Canisource is alright, but I'd go with a freeze dried raw that is treated with HPP if you're concerned about pathogens before I'd feed canisource. However, unless the dog is actually chewing and crunching raw meaty bones there's not going to be much teeth benefit to feeding canned, freeze dried or dehydrated foods. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

I wouldn't worry about anything coming from raw that you wouldn't also get with kibble or any other food. Kibble is usually recalled because of contamination with salmonella, and it's a risk to the humans handling it. If you've gotten kisses from them after eating kibble I wouldn't worry about getting kisses from them after eating raw. Of course I wouldn't ask for kisses right after eating. I usually brush my Tpoos teeth after they eat, only because many times they have pieces of meat and stuff stuck between the teeth and if not taken out it will stay there and rot. I have been feeding a mix of ziwipeak lately and it is a very good food. It's expensive but well worth it. No added grains as fillers and all ingredients the average person can actually understand. Plus my tpoos absolutely love it which is the most amazing I've thing I've ever seen. If you are having that many issues with plaque build up he might just be a dog that needs dental cleanings every 6-9 months. Mine usually have to go in that often for dental cleanings because they have horrid dentition. Their breath also smells awful all the time as well. Even after a dental cleaning it takes a couple of weeks but the smell comes back. They just have really bad teeth, which is very common for small breed dogs.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Believe me I know about dental with toy poodles, out to 7 they all had to have teeth pulled and cleaned or a regular basis. In this are it is 268.00 that includes cleaning and putting them to sleep, I have spent thousand in teeth. Just to check them is 75.00


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Seems like there is a lot of unnecessary grain in that food...


There is non in the fish recipe I bought. The review was for the beef one, which has grains.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

glorybeecosta said:


> Believe me I know about dental with toy poodles, out to 7 they all had to have teeth pulled and cleaned or a regular basis. In this are it is 268.00 that includes cleaning and putting them to sleep, I have spent thousand in teeth. Just to check them is 75.00


Here it's $400-$450 for a cleaning, and the examen is not included. With no testing prior. It just doesn't make sense.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Well, Merlin doesn't like it so the canisource is going back. I'm going to go see Karnivora raw meat. If it doesn't cost too much, I'll try it. Right now I'm feeding Cesar, the only thing he wants to eat, and it's costing about 3$ per day. That's expensive ! And not very good either...

But at least he's gaining weight. He's 10 inches high by 10 inches long and he only weighed 5 pounds when I got him. He was skin and bones. Now he's near 6 pounds. I think he should probably go close to 7 pounds.


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## Summerhouse (Jun 12, 2015)

The part of feeding raw that helps with teeth cleaning is chewing on bones. Just feeding mince and pre-prepared wet food wont make much difference. You could try giving a chicken wing as a replacement for a meal every other day. Maybe just giving the tip and middle section, for his weight a meal would be around 3oz of wing.

Its fine to feed raw and dry so long as they're fed as separate meals and not together.

As others have said normal daily hygiene when handling raw meat. I have a bearded breed which can get in a mess with some raw meals, so he does get a beard wash after some meals but otherwise the saliva takes care of killing harmful bacteria.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Summerhouse said:


> The part of feeding raw that helps with teeth cleaning is chewing on bones. Just feeding mince and pre-prepared wet food wont make much difference. You could try giving a chicken wing as a replacement for a meal every other day. Maybe just giving the tip and middle section, for his weight a meal would be around 3oz of wing.
> 
> Its fine to feed raw and dry so long as they're fed as separate meals and not together.
> 
> As others have said normal daily hygiene when handling raw meat. I have a bearded breed which can get in a mess with some raw meals, so he does get a beard wash after some meals but otherwise the saliva takes care of killing harmful bacteria.


According to what I have read, it is not the bones, but the fact that meat is 100% protein, no carbs. It is the carbs and starch contained in the food that causes bacteria to thrive and tartar to build-up. If that's not the case, then feeding raw is not so much an advantage. I was planning on giving patties. I don't want bones to be rubbed all over the floors in my house. And going outside is impossible 7 months of the year because of winter.


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## Summerhouse (Jun 12, 2015)

Dechi said:


> According to what I have read, it is not the bones, but the fact that meat is 100% protein, no carbs. It is the carbs and starch contained in the food that causes bacteria to thrive and tartar to build-up. If that's not the case, then feeding raw is not so much an advantage. I was planning on giving patties. I don't want bones to be rubbed all over the floors in my house. And going outside is impossible 7 months of the year because of winter.


Yes I think you're right. I know people who feed raw as in just minces no bones or chunks of meat and dogs still have to have dentals.

Its all down to getting them chewing. The bones help to clean the teeth by scraping as they chew but also the chewing makes them produce more saliva to attack the nasties. I always hold chicken wings while he eats to make sure he really has to give them a good chew before swallowing, and of course he cant go off dropping them on the carpet.

Of course dogs are like humans. Some are just more prone to tooth decay than others no matter what we do


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Yep it is that chewing and scraping action that helps with the teeth. This is why you can feed kibble and just add raw meaty bones once or twice a week and still get the benefits of the teeth cleaning that many people associate with "feeding raw". The premade minces and grinds that don't make them do the chewing don't have the same effect and in fact my kids who have been on kibble and premade raw for the past few months WITHOUT the raw meaty bones had to have his teeth cleaned for the first time in his 2 years of life this last month. Wry grin we are going back to raw meaty bones a once or twice a week.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Oh my YES! It is the chewing on bones AND tooth brushing that does the trick.... I give Molly a raw chicken leg or thigh(she's a really good chewer!) about 3 times a week and brush her teeth, and at 3 1/2 years old her teeth still look good! If I fall behind and don't give her the boney stuff her teeth do start to get stained, but once I get back to being consistent, her teeth whiten up within days!!!
I took these pics this morning ...................BTW I have an impaired immune system due to the medications I have to take and I've never even had a hint of illness because I feed raw.............and Molly does lick my face sometimes! I just make sure I keep things clean and I wash her face every day! LOL!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Nice teeth ! Glad to know that you never got sick. I am going to see this place tomorrow that sells raw at a good price, and freshly made and frozen.

Your dog is a miniature cross ? (Mpoox)


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Dechi said:


> Your dog is a miniature cross ? (Mpoox)


YUP! She's the product of a cute mini mom and a stranger in the night! (OOPS!) I call her my "Princess born on the wrong side of the blanket" LOL!
...........Her DNA is quite amusing in it's content but her appearance tells you how strong the poodle gene in her is!


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## evth (Apr 25, 2015)

MollyMuiMa, your Molly's teeth look super. By the way her pink nail polish is tres chic!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

MollyMuiMa said:


> YUP! She's the product of a cute mini mom and a stranger in the night! (OOPS!) I call her my "Princess born on the wrong side of the blanket" LOL!
> ...........Her DNA is quite amusing in it's content but her appearance tells you how strong the poodle gene in her is!


You could never tell, she's beautiful !


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I am starting raw tonight. The guy said I should start with the beef, so that's what I did. Can't wait to see if they'll both like it, Merlin especially.

For those who give chicken bones or other, where do you give it ? Outside ? All dogs I had in the past would burry the bone instead of eating it. Here I couldn't give it outside, 4-5 feet of snow and very cold. And I don't want bones rubbing all over my floors.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I put a washable towel or other cloth down on the floor, and feed them chicken wings on that. It took a week or two of reminders for them to "keep it on the blanket", but they are very good now. After a few uses the towel goes in the washing machine.


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## Summerhouse (Jun 12, 2015)

I confine to the kitchen for easy wipe floor. I have heard of people buying the wipe clean pvc table cover material to put on the floor. They get the idea just to eat on that or confining in a crate to eat.

Just remember when you are feeding any bones that they can chomp and swallow to supervise at all times until eaten. Its easy to choke and not make a sound a bit like us if a fish bone gets stuck. Very rare but it does happen.


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## sweets (Jan 15, 2015)

I don't let my dog lick people! Lol sorry but think it's yuk but I know I'm in the minority with that ;-)


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I put down a 'special towel' too............she knows now that she has to keep her chicken on it! In the beginning, when I would give her something messy, every time she took it off the towel I took it away from her and put it back on the towel......she was smart enough to learn that is where she had to eat it if she want to eat it undisturbed by Mom! LOL!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Well, Merlin doesn't really like raw... My Chi liked it, as she usually likes just about anything. I had to mix can with it to make him eat half of what he usually eats. One more try tomorrow and if it doesn't work, I'm starting both dogs on Fromm no grains. He miraculously likes it...


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