# Might be time to switch foods... advice?



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Have you considered raw feeding? I know it is not for everyone, but it does sound as if Ralph might benefit from having a diet that was entirely under your control.


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

*Ralph's tummy*

It wouldn't hurt to try a grain free kibble, but do it gradually. My vet told me to keep with the puppy food until Callie was 9 months or so (because it has more fat in it and a growing puppy needs more fat than an adult.) Callie has had gas and loose stools a few times, and it turned out she had a mild case of GI infection and needed an antibiotic. Puppies will pick things up so fast and eat them that sometimes you can't grab them fast enough to stop them from gulping down something icky, especially outside. We attributed one such episode to some sort of chewy dried meat, skins, antlers, rawhide, etc. She seems to have a problem digesting anything like that and gets loose bowels and growling stomach - especially avoid anything not made in the US. The only thing she can tolerate is kong ziggies, nylabone edibles and Merrick Texas Taffy.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

For a large breed puppy (if you consider spoos to be large breed), I tend not to promote grain free foods other than Orijen, which has a puppy specific foods. Most other grain free foods are listed as all-life-stages but do not have appropriate calcium/phosphorous ratios for large breed puppies. Does Orijen's counterpart Acana make a puppy food? It's a lower protein version of Orijen. I have heard of Orijen simply being too dense/rich for some dogs' tummies.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I have also heard that Origen can be too rich for some dogs. Mine did fine on a quality food with grain (no wheat, corn or filler) as a puppy. Maybe you could try one with grains in it and see what happens. Buy a little bag.


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## mdwcarolina (Dec 9, 2011)

Yikes, well-timed thread for an issue I am looking at as well. I am just about to try switching Ziva (3 months) from Blue Buffalo Wilderness puppy to Orijen Large Breed Puppy. Reason I was about to do it was because Ziva too was having soft (and some liquid) stools, and I had been feeding quite a bit of white rice and chicken baby food to counteract that, and when I started re-introducing the BB kibble, she was uninterested. Having researched the foods I was impressed by Orijen, and honestly just felt that it was an even better food than I had thought BB was. Figured since I was re-introducing kibble it might be a good time to make the transition.

For my part, I have not been sure that the soft/loose stools were not caused by treats, as I am still trying to sort my way through which ones might be irritating. I try to take it really easy on treats, and be careful to use treats that are designed for puppies and have natural ingredients and not fillers, but with the early stages of training, I need to use something ... and using her regular kibble (the BB) wasn't working since she got bored or whatever by it.

I feel for you, frankgrimes, on trying to figure out what is causing Ralph's stool issues -- it is hard to do! I am so grateful for all the input we get from our more experienced folks here!


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## Hayley22 (Sep 21, 2011)

I have heard that a raw diet does wonders for firming the stool.

I am currently feeding a homemade cooked diet. (It's only been about a week or so...) and Delphi's stools are much better. (We also had runny tummy issues.) I did put veggies in the cooked mixture, but now I'm wondering what the point is, as she poops the veggies out whole! I've heard that dogs can't digest veggies, so that's probably why.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Mine was transitioned from puppy with grain to BB Wilderness as an adult without an issue. Maybe it is the grainfree puppies that are causing the problem? 

Keep in mind that just like humans, puppies digestive systems are still developing. Loose stool is very common and not always related to the food. More often than not it is just their digestive system working too quickly or slowly as their body matures. Often the issue is solved by 4/5 months, in other words, time.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Our two get Orijen too, with some raw and we switch it up to Acana every other week to hedge our bets about the high protein level  I like the combination and our dogs are thriving on it, also their coats and teeth are looking good on this diet.


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## WestCoastSpoo (May 11, 2011)

When we got Huxley he was fed a local brand that we couldn't get in our area so we switched him to Horizon Legacy (we were told by the breeder and our vet to feed large breed puppies adult food- and both considered the spoo "large breed" although I know there's debate about that). Anyway, after the switch the red tear stains he had had on his face disappeared and he had a lot less gas. We've been really happy with it (although only one store carries it in our area!) but I'd also like to start feeding some raw (when I can muster the courage to try it!!)


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## PoodlePowerBC (Feb 25, 2011)

WestCoastSpoo said:


> (we were told by the breeder and our vet to feed large breed puppies adult food- and both considered the spoo "large breed" although I know there's debate about that).


I was told the exact same thing by my breeder, my vet, and the holistic type breeder in my home town and on a dog food forum I'm on. Bear in mind, this was specifically for a Standard Poodle. They still recommended puppy food for a mastiff, Dane, etc. Russell was also on Origen at the time, lots of loose stool and hunger pukes in the morning. I switched to Acana fish for nearly a month ...then lept into Raw and haven't looked back. If you do switch to raw, the Dog Food Forum is a wealth of information and they are SUPER helpful. If you can't find an answer through browsing, you usually get a bunch of answers within an hour! 
Good luck!


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## WestCoastSpoo (May 11, 2011)

PoodlePowerBC said:


> I was told the exact same thing by my breeder, my vet, and the holistic type breeder in my home town and on a dog food forum I'm on. Bear in mind, this was specifically for a Standard Poodle. They still recommended puppy food for a mastiff, Dane, etc. Russell was also on Origen at the time, lots of loose stool and hunger pukes in the morning. I switched to Acana fish for nearly a month ...then lept into Raw and haven't looked back. If you do switch to raw, the Dog Food Forum is a wealth of information and they are SUPER helpful. If you can't find an answer through browsing, you usually get a bunch of answers within an hour!
> Good luck!


THANKS PoodlePowerBC!! I'm getting closer and closer to taking the leap into Raw!! The more I research it the more it looks like the absolute best nutrition for a dog.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

mdwcarolina said:


> Having researched the foods I was impressed by Orijen, and honestly just felt that it was an even better food than I had thought BB was. Figured since I was re-introducing kibble it might be a good time to make the transition.


Orijen is a GREAT food. In my opinion (only an opinion, of course) it is the absolute BEST kibble on the market. Both for quality and for the company that makes it. But, I have heard of it being too "rich" for some dogs. Some dogs just don't tolerate the protein level, or the calorie density, that well. Their lower-protein counterpart, Acana, is also a _very_ high quality food and could be a better option. I'm currently feeding this to Nova and Juniper.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Sookster said:


> Orijen is a GREAT food. In my opinion (only an opinion, of course) it is the absolute BEST kibble on the market. Both for quality and for the company that makes it. But, I have heard of it being too "rich" for some dogs. Some dogs just don't tolerate the protein level, or the calorie density, that well. Their lower-protein counterpart, Acana, is also a _very_ high quality food and could be a better option. I'm currently feeding this to Nova and Juniper.


Count Sunny in on the "too rich for me" group -- found out the hard way. Jake, my previous poodle, was on it though and it was great.


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## PoodlePowerBC (Feb 25, 2011)

Sookster said:


> Orijen is a GREAT food. In my opinion (only an opinion, of course) it is the absolute BEST kibble on the market. Both for quality and for the company that makes it. But, I have heard of it being too "rich" for some dogs. Some dogs just don't tolerate the protein level, or the calorie density, that well. Their lower-protein counterpart, Acana, is also a _very_ high quality food and could be a better option. I'm currently feeding this to Nova and Juniper.


I agree and I have to add ... if I was going to feed Kibble, it would be Orijen (or Acana) all the way! With all the research I did, I find the company is a very responsible company that puts a lot of care and thought into their product.


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## mandyand casey (Jan 12, 2011)

I am another raw feeder and it is so easy once you get going. I get most meats under a buck a lb and think how much your paying for the kibble a 30 lb bag costs how much


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## Tymaca (Oct 13, 2011)

My Spoo had all these issues that I wasn't sure how to fix when I got her - goopy eyes, gas, cracked paws, bad breath, etc. Everytime I researched new food, and what was the best, I always landed on raw! I was so nervous to take the plunge, but after weeks of nothing getting better, I finally did it. Everything cleared up the first week!!! We have been doing it for a couple of months now and it is awesome, AND surprisingly easy. I have 3 kids and was so worried about the germs, etc...and no problems here.  GL finding an answer. Consider raw if you wouldn't mind doing it.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Have you thought about probiotics? I feed Fromm's Four Star Nutritionals and toss a raw duck neck or two in there for a treat.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Welll...I'm a raw feeder but I do keep EVO or Orijen or Acana on hand for lazy days. I also feed Honest Kitchen Occasionally. Or Lotus or EVO canned food. Honestly, my dogs eat a hodgepodge. I have built up their tummy strength by feeding a varied homemade diet.

Anyway, I'd suggest Acana, Orijen or EVO hands down as kibble options.


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## frankgrimes (Nov 28, 2011)

Yes, I am already feeding ORIJEN which is supposed to be the highest quality kibble out there. I love it, but maybe Ralph's tummy doesn't. I will try the Acana version which is a little lower in protein and see if that helps at all. I also wonder if it is the protein he is allergic too, perhaps the chicken? Acana puppy has the same protein so if that's the case it wouldn't help. Orijen has the 6 fish, but it is for adults and Ralph is only 7 months old... what to do what to do.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Has anyone experience with Burns kibble? A small pet store here in town carries it and the owner (does her research, etc.) carries only high quality kibble and premade raw, etc. She loves Burns for the kibble. I was reading the packaging today and it's holistic, and lower in protein, supposedly easier on tummies, etc. Just thought I'd mention, and I did notice that even Whole Dog Journal rated it this year in their top kibble. Not sure how available it is; think all US-sourced ingredients and made in Indiana??


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## mdwcarolina (Dec 9, 2011)

FWIW Ziva at 3 months now was running really sloppy stools for quite a while on Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy (and possibly treat combos, or something else unknown).

I love the idea of raw by the way but just cannot handle it with my crazy work life, disabled mom care, limited fridge space, and general inability to find time and organization beyond the things I'm handling now.

So I switched her gradually to Orijen Large Breed Puppy. (Though I thought hmm, large breed? not so much.) Anyway, her stools have settled down and she's doing great. Really not positive that it is due to the food change, but at the very least the food is working well with her system.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I also like Nature's Variety Instinct kibble.


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## meghf (Mar 15, 2010)

Hey Frankgrimes,
I'm definitely interested to hear what you decide to do and how it goes. My 13 week old puppy is on Orijen Puppy, no large breed. He came home from the breeder on a homemade diet and ee started with Acana Pacifica but he couldn't seem to chew the larger kibble so I switched to the Orijen Puppy. I discussed with the food store owner large puppy vs puppy and she recommended puppy. Now that I see most of you feed large breed I'll be switching depending on what I decide to do.

Anyway, we have a lot of the same problems, normal formed stool in the morning, softer stools at lunch, pudding type stools in the evening (can you tell I'm a nurse since I use the word "stool"). He also has really bad gas, so bad it clears a room. Now, he's never *knock on wood* had explosive diarrhea or anything but I'm not loving the pudding stools. So I'm toying with the idea of trying the Acana again now that he has the hang of crunching on kibble. We also have him on a probiotic, it does seem to help a little because if we forget to give it his stools are more soft. He's also going into the vet for shots in the next week or so and are supposed to take a stool sample so maybe there's something going on there that I'm unaware of. 

I'm curious what you decide to do with Frank as it sounds like we're in the same boat. We really can't do a raw diet even though that sounds like the best option. We also tried to cut out training treats and use kibble for treats instead (subtracting how much we give from meals) as I thought maybe the treats were too much. That hasn't seemed to help a lot.

We feed a total of 2 cups per day which is the low end of the recommendation, he's 17 pounds and 13.5 weeks old. He's definitely a slender guy but I read that feeding too much can cause loose stools and sometimes he starts the meal ravenous but then has a hard time finishing.

Good luck with Frank!


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## frankgrimes (Nov 28, 2011)

***Update***

So I have decided that I am going to switch Ralph over (SLOWLY) to Acana Pacifica. The Acana is a 60/40 where the Orijen 6 fish is still an 80/20. So, I think by switching to Acana Pacifica (Only fish/fruit/veg) it will address both the possibilities: Eliminiate the chicken (possible allergen) and also lower the protein (He's currently on 80/20). I will pick up a small bag this week and start to gradually add it to his normal rations. I will keep you guys posted as I have read quite a few of you are having similar issues. I am going to cut out all treats (Even ones I think are ok) and just see if I can get his tummy in good shape and then reintroduce treats I have semi-determined are safe for him. Wish us luck!


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Luck!

My dog has an iron stomach, but I'm always interested in food & food issues. Keep us posted.


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## dcyk (Nov 30, 2011)

My little fellow just transitioned to purely acana pacifica, i feel the kibbles are a bit too big, and my little guy just gobbles down without crunching them.

I also feed him Fish for Dogs Treats and it's way smaller than the kibbles, yet he crunches the treats before swallowing.
:argh:


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## Kloliver (Jan 17, 2012)

frankgrimes said:


> He is currently on Orijen, Large Breed Puppy. It is 80% protein (from chicken, fish and eggs) and 20% carbs from fruit/veg.


Rango had the same problem with Origen, digestive enzymes helped but that was a band-aid so we switched foods


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