# Potty training a standard Poodle puppy.



## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

Sounds... Normal lol. 

You're trying your best. We went through 6+ rolls of paper towels during our potty training stage. (Female, Spoo too)

Create a journal so you can track when her last pee is so you can get an idea to be proactive. 

Also, keep in mind poodles are people pleasers. So, be over the top enthusiastic when puppy does something that makes Mom happy.

There's light at the end of the tunnel. Your furbaby just needs time for her bladder to get stronger and to be a big little girl.

You'll get a full night's sleep... In August.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

I suggest you take the puppy to a vet and describe to him/her how often the puppy tries to pee and the fact that sometimes does not produce urine. This sounds suspiciously like a bladder infection, so best to check it out.


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

I agree about checking for a bladder infection. If you've been rewarding her for each pee, she might also be learning that more pee attempts outside means more treats. I think Ian Dunbar has guidance on "paying more" for longer pees that empty the bladder.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I’m going through potty training with my 4 month old puppy. This does not sound normal and I too recommend getting your puppy to the vet ASAP because this does seem to be urinary tract infection (UTI).

UTI that are not treated quickly and completely can move up to infect the kidneys making it more difficult to treat and more harmful to the pet. 

My female minipoo pee marks, but this doesn’t seem like pee marking. When she marks it’s because she has searched for and found a great smell to respond too. Her nose is on the ground, she’s sniffing, it’s clear she will then very intentionally pee. When she’s pee marking, she is very careful where she is directing her pee, it looks different from when we go out to potty in the morning and her bladder is full and she just quickly squats to releive herself. It’s not a pattern, she may pee, then pee 10 minutes later, or she may pee and find another spot 30 minutes later.

Poodles as a breed are known to be easy to potty train, especially minis and spoos.

Do clean areas with dilute vinegar or an enzyme product or you may find both your dogs drawn to potty in those areas. 

Lastly (((hugs))). Those first few days and early weeks are tough. You know from your mastiff puppy it will get easier soon.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I, too, had a female marker and it was very deliberate. Although I guess it’s possible she’s marking everywhere your mastiff pup had previous accidents?

Nevertheless, I’d get her checked out.

I’d also start keeping some notes on her potty times, because everything does become a blur in those early days. If you write down every time she potties, ideally with additional notes like food, naps, etc., you may see a pattern emerge.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I agree it might be worth checking for a bladder infection if she is squatting non-productively. Puppies also vary. My boy Pogo was a prodigy, pretty much fully housebroken at 4 months apart from submissive piddling. His brother Snarky was a little less reliable until 6 months, but I could trust him too if I had just seen him go outside. My current boy Galen was just terrible. He would poop outside and poop inside five minutes later. He could pee twice outside, do a lap around the living room and then take a leak on the carpet. It happened so fast I didn't even see him setting up. He seemed to have no clue he even needed to go until he went. Just bombs away, instant damp spot. At 5 1/2 months I was sure I was going to be keeping him crated until he was a year old. Then, suddenly, he just got it. Starting some time around 6 months he just seemed to figure out the drill and stopped peeing in the house.


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## Beaumont (Apr 23, 2021)

Oonapup said:


> I agree about checking for a bladder infection. If you've been rewarding her for each pee, she might also be learning that more pee attempts outside means more treats. I think Ian Dunbar has guidance on "paying more" for longer pees that empty the bladder.


That thought crossed my mind. I've noticed that right after she pees outside, even if its a few drops, she is immediately expecting a treat. Sometimes looking at me as she starts to setup into position. 
The thought of rewarding more for longer pees, which do occur. Right after a nap or sleep, I take her outside and when she pees, its a puddle. 
So that makes me think there is no obstruction and there is no strong smell either.


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## Beaumont (Apr 23, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I, too, had a female marker and it was very deliberate. Although I guess it’s possible she’s marking everywhere your mastiff pup had previous accidents?


Yeah outside on the lawn, she does a circuit. She walks around, nose in the turf constantly. Then will stop, circle once and squat. Then look at me for the expected treat. 
That seemed like marking. But I am very new to this breed.


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

Beaumont said:


> That thought crossed my mind. I've noticed that right after she pees outside, even if its a few drops, she is immediately expecting a treat. Sometimes looking at me as she starts to setup into position.
> The thought of rewarding more for longer pees, which do occur. Right after a nap or sleep, I take her outside and when she pees, its a puddle.
> So that makes me think there is no obstruction and there is no strong smell either.


It is still worth having her checked, but, per Dunbar, I suggest paying really well - like 8-10 treat bits - when she does a big pee after waking up and don't reward her (or don't reward as much) for tiny pees. If she pees inside and you get her outside and she finishes peeing or pees again, don't reward. Our current dog trainer doesn't do food rewards for peeing at all because they say it can encourage the mini-pee for treat thing, though we never found to be an issue (and weren't with them when Oona was in the potty training stage). Instead I think they encourage you to be boring and stand in one spot with the pup on leash until they pee, and then you can be interesting and play as the reward. Your puppy is still really little. It will get better and she will figure it out.


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## Beaumont (Apr 23, 2021)

I will definitely get her checked out. In fact, I had a mini exam done for her when she got her 2nd set of shots. I asked about this very issue. 
The Vet told me I'll need to get a urine sample. That will be very very difficult. 
She is very small, I'm not small. I have old knees.
This would require me to be at the ready with some sort of cup to capture it in, the pee is originating about 2 inches off the ground. 
So this is something I can't figure out how I'd do.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Beaumont said:


> Yeah outside on the lawn, she does a circuit. She walks around, nose in the turf constantly. Then will stop, circle once and squat. Then look at me for the expected treat.
> That seemed like marking. But I am very new to this breed.


I recommend sticking closely to Dunbar’s method:









Errorless Housetraining


Housesoiling is a spatial problem, involving perfectly normal, natural, and necessary canine behaviors (peeing and pooping) performed in inappropriate places.Housetraining is quickly and easily accomplished by praising your puppy and offering a food treat when she eliminates in an appropriate...




www.dogstardaily.com





Have you read his book, Before and After Getting Your Puppy? If not, I’d suggest quickly reading it:








Before and After Getting Your Puppy: The Positive Approach to Raising a Happy, Healthy, and Well-Behaved Dog: Dunbar, Dr. Ian: 8601200633603: Amazon.com: Books


Before and After Getting Your Puppy: The Positive Approach to Raising a Happy, Healthy, and Well-Behaved Dog [Dunbar, Dr. Ian] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Before and After Getting Your Puppy: The Positive Approach to Raising a Happy, Healthy, and Well-Behaved Dog



www.amazon.com





Also available online for free:



https://www.dogstardaily.com/files/BEFORE%20You%20Get%20Your%20Puppy.pdf





https://www.dogstardaily.com/files/downloads/AFTER_You_Get_Your_Puppy.pdf



Poodles are soooo wildly smart and sensitive. You’re constantly training your puppy whether you realize it or not.


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

If it helps at all, when Oona had a sudden UTI at not much older than that, when she was not sleeping she was trying to pee almost constantly unless distracted. It was clear that something was up as this behavior was not usual for her. I wasn't able to get a sample from her since by the time we packed up to get her to the vet, barely anything was coming out when she peed, but the vets were able to get enough from her when she attempted to go in the clinic that they were able to test and indeed it was a UTI. I think she was on antibiotics for 2 weeks, but she was feeling much better and peeing more normally within 24 hours. So it doesn't always take a long time to resolve (if your pup even has a UTI, which maybe she doesn't)


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Catching a urine sample is always tricky for a dog but you can rig up something to stick under her to collect it which involves minimum bending. 

You might need to be creative but you might have something in the house already. A plastic kitchen spoon that has nice size scoop will work...use the handle to stick the scoop part under your dog once you see the stream. Or tape a stick onto a small container that can be pushed into place. This isn’t a sterile sample, but with an eye or even better a microscopic you can see white blood cells or bits of blood indicating a UTI. For a true sterile sample you need a sterile container or the vet can insert a needle into the bladder which was done on one of my cats (Cystocentesis) or they can use a catheter.

If you think it’s a training problem with treats, changing your approach to treats should make a difference.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Beaumont said:


> Hi,
> She is a 10 week old Poodle puppy. This is our first poodle. We've had labs and English mastiffs previously. We also have a 6 month old Mastiff that is currently house trained.
> We're trying hard to potty train the new puppy but she is not like any other dog we've had.
> We reward her for going outside, she squats to pee about every 2-4 minutes it seems like. I have not actually timed it and I am sleep deprived so I could be wrong.
> ...


You didn't mention anything about if you are using a crate or exercise pen (x-pen) in her training. Are you? They really do help in peeing, pooping, and chewing training.


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## Michigan Gal (Jun 4, 2019)

The reward for peeing outside can be something other than a food treat. It could be you saying "Good, good, come along" and running away. It could also be a leash clipped on going outside the yard for a minute or so. You need to keep her outside and running around anyway to make sure she's empty.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Some ideas here on getting a sample that should do for any size poodle puppy:
(10) Getting a urine sample from a toy poodle | Poodle Forum

94Magna_Tom has a good thought. It does sound like she's got free rein thru the living space. If you're not directly engaged with her for playing, training, exercise, then her full freedom still needs to be earned. She's far too young to know what's allowed and what's safe, and you could use the break too .


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## Beaumont (Apr 23, 2021)

94Magna_Tom said:


> You didn't mention anything about if you are using a crate or exercise pen (x-pen) in her training. Are you? They really do help in peeing, pooping, and chewing training.


Well yeah, we were letting her have free reign. So we bought a 60" Puppy Play Pen. 
We started out putting her on the bed with us, she had a towel over a thick rubber pad. But I couldn't sleep because she wanted to toddle around on the bed and was getting curious. 
So we tried crating her. OMG. The dramatic crying from that crate sounded like she was being tortured by the Taliban. 
At someones suggestion, we got this product called a "Snuggle Puppy". Its a little stuffed dog, that you put a warming device into and this small device that has a heart beat. Runs on a couple of AAA batts. 
We put her in there and for about 25 minutes she cried her tortured cry and then she quieted down and slept for a long time. 
So that has helped us immensely to get through the night but she starts crying at about 3:30AM and my wife takes her out. There usually is a long pee then. 

Now about the pen. 
How should I use that with respect to her training? 
I keep thinking she's just gonna constantly pee in there. 
I need a few tips on how best to use the play pen for her training. 
I'm clueless there. 

Thanks everyone for all the advice, 
B


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

94Magna_Tom said:


> You didn't mention anything about if you are using a crate or exercise pen (x-pen) in her training. Are you? They really do help in peeing, pooping, and chewing training.


I'll add a photo of PTP's setup until you see this and add yours 



PeggyTheParti said:


> Should add that we actively taught her to love it in there. We gave her _loads_ of things to chew, shred, and play with. She was never expected to just sit quietly in a sterile space. Her pen was always a bit of a puppy wonderland.














Beaumont said:


> Now about the pen.
> How should I use that with respect to her training?


Set up the pen area with zones.

1/ If you don't have urineproof floors, somewhere like Home Depot or Lowes sells inexpensive vinyl flooring precut sections for around $25. Put this under the pen.

Tarkett 6-Ft x 8-Ft Sheet Vinyl Assorted Styles in the Sheet Vinyl (Pre-Cut) department at Lowes.com

2/ Put her food and water in there in one area
3/ Put a crate or crate mat (very washable for that) in another area
4/ Put a pee pad in another area if you need to leave her unsupervised
5/ Put some toys in there

You're creating a hang out space for her. The "training" is a lot about keeping her safe but in sight when you can't be giving her full attention. She'll learn, with help, how to settle down and be okay being around but not underfoot.

At her age now and for quite a while yet she'll need as much as 20 hours of sleep a day. If you've had or been around children, you know that overwrought state when they're tired and don't know it? Same thing with puppies. 

If you have the space to attach a crate to the pen, or if it will fit inside, that's a start with crate training. I's something of a misconception that dogs are den animals. That's true only for birth and those very vulnerable early weeks. Most need to be taught that having a cozy, quiet space to retreat to is a good thing. Cover the crate with a blanket if you're not already doing that. 

Start with short sessions. Toss a treat or a favorite toy in. Hopefully she'll go in and get it. Keep trying in short sessions. When she does go in, don't close the door, let her come right back out.
Build on that. If she'll go in pretty readily, close the door for a second then open it right back up.
Do you have a Kong toy that can be stuffed with kibble (part of her daily portion of food) to occupy her while in the pen or crate? Or peanut butter (no xylitol), maybe plain yogurt, which can be frozen in the Kong to occupy her longer.

I think you can see the idea here, very small steps, build on success.

Others will drop by with much better descriptions and methods, but this is a start.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Beaumont said:


> I need a few tips on how best to use the play pen for her training.
> I'm clueless there.


Bits and pieces of advice are wonderful, but honestly - read the book I linked above. It’s like a poodle puppy user manual.  It’s an easy read, and you’ll get a much clearer picture of how to go about this whole process.

Currently you should be proactively taking your puppy out to pee, not letting her wake you up in the middle of the night. This will not only prevent accidents, it establishes clear rules: The humans decide when puppies wake up.

Just make sure she has 24/7 access to fresh water, even while confined. A small bedtime snack (just a bit of her usual food) is also good for soothing nighttime bellies and ensuring good sleep.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Here is my crate/x-pen set up. Elroy is sleeping in the crate here.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

If I go into the pen, he happily follows me in. Chew toys, tug toys, stuffed kongs, water, potty, and bedding in the crate. Everything happy/great happens in the x-pen. I have a really large (48") crate, so the cardboard box is being used to make the space smaller than even the divider can. You don't want much more room for him to stretch out when laying down. Too much room, and he'll be OK with using the "extra" space as his potty (Elroy did before I added the box). After sleeping in the crate for an hour, take him out to pee/poop whether he needs to or not.


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## Beaumont (Apr 23, 2021)

OK, I like it. 
I will order that book and I'll follow the tips placed here. 
Thanks so much for everything so far. 
I'll get my wife to read this thread and she'll be here when the book arrives, I have to go out of town tomorrow. I'll be gone a week. 
Hopefully we get some more progress. 
Thanks again, 
M


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Beaumont said:


> OK, I like it.
> I will order that book and I'll follow the tips placed here.
> Thanks so much for everything so far.
> I'll get my wife to read this thread and she'll be here when the book arrives, I have to go out of town tomorrow. I'll be gone a week.
> ...


Good luck.  Hope you’ll keep us posted!


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## Beaumont (Apr 23, 2021)

Well the puppy is now nearly 4 months old. 
We've had to travel for our jobs and both our dogs were in a kennel for about a combined 3 weeks. This last trip was about a 9 day stay for them in a kennel. This place allowed the dogs to be in their own enclosure that allows for a small fenced yard with an indoor shelter they can freely go in and out of.
I fear that the stays at the kennel has set her back in her potty training back to zero.
Because we're home now, its been a few days and there seems to be no improvement in potty training. 
Our other dog, when he was at her age, would give some sort of indication that he needed to go. He would whine. 
She gives zero indication. We reward her with food treats when she goes outside. But there is zero improvement. It feels to me that the moment we turn our back, she quickly poops or pees. Almost like she's waiting for us to be distracted. 
We ordered the book "Before and after Getting Your Puppy" and were expecting it to be here waiting for us. 
It was not. 
Apparently they attempted delivery and it went back? Normally they leave it on our covered porch and all is fine. So I had to re order it. 
She's been to the vet and looked over and she has her shots and the vet thinks there isn't anything wrong with her. I can see that she hears us just fine. So I can't figure out why the training that worked with our other puppy who is now 6 months old is not working at all for her. 

Its also complicated because I recently sustained a knee injury and I'm hobbling around. So my wife is taking the brunt of this. Further complicating issues is the fact that there appears to be a rattlesnake den under our deck. We've seen 8 rattlesnakes in very close proximity to our back door in the past 2 days. They are unusually aggressive too, so I have to go out and patrol for snakes 3 times a day. Maybelline the 15 lb Standard Poodle puppy would probably not survive a bite. She is not cautious and when allowed briefly off leash, (usually by accident) she bounds around the yard happily. Our other puppy is now 105 lbs at 6 months and she has no fear of him. She goes right at him. She seems to be bossing him around. It looks like she's playing with an elephant. So a rattlesnake I fear she'd have no fear of and go directly after it. Which could be fatal. I've ended up having to do the thing I never ever wanted to do, I've had to kill a few of these rattlesnakes. 

I can say having two puppies in the house at one time is not a good idea. At least not for us. We should have seriously thought this over. 
We're sleep deprived. 
I may end up posting from a hotel if this grand idea of 'lets get two puppies' gets me divorced.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

The kennel is probably the culprit for the setback. What do they do for potty? Probably some untraining needed now.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

As an owner of two littermate puppies, I feel your pain lol. 

This stage will pass. Just start over with the Errorless Training and since you and she were getting there before, you will again, and likely faster since it's already been working. 

The kennel time was a setback you'll get past. 

The rattlesnakes are another matter. 
If you haven't already, ask your vet about rattlesnake vaccines 
I only know there is such a thing but no more than that.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Is there such a thing as rattlesnake relocaters?


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I struggled with baby Galen last year. He was the worst puppy I've ever housebroken. When he was at 5 1/2 months he still couldn't be trusted inside at all. He would pee outside, play for five minutes inside, and then pee on something. It was utterly depressing. I really wanted to return him to the breeder the day he hopped up on the couch, looked out the window, and peed on the couch cushions while continuing to look out the window. Then at a bit over six months he suddenly got his act together. I realized we had gone a full day, then two, then a week without him peeing inside. This change seemed to coincide with maturity; he started lifting his leg around the same time.

One important thing is not to punish the puppy for peeing inside. Chastising the puppy is likely to lead more problems. The puppy might become reluctant to pee outside within view of a human, for fear of getting scolded, and the puppy might also start sneak peeing inside. Neither are helpful. Galen got the message pretty clearly when I sighed, stopped playing,, put him back in his play pen, pulled out the bottle of stinky floor cleaner, and spent 10 minutes making the house smell like citrus fruit.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

cowpony said:


> One important thing is not to punish the puppy for peeing inside. Chastising the puppy is likely to lead more problems. The puppy might become reluctant to pee outside within view of a human, for fear of getting scolded, and the puppy might also start sneak peeing inside. Neither are helpful.


This x a million. I suspect your poodle puppy is extremely clever and is learning habits you don’t even realize you’ve trained her to do.

Honestly, poodles are really on a different level. I felt like a total dog novice raising Peggy. But when the good stuff clicks, oh boy! You’ll be thrilled. Just keep up the positive reinforcement. Keep those potty treats coming fast and furious, the _moment_ she’s done pottying outside. You can even hover the treat under her nose as she’s finishing up to ensure the connection is 100% clear. And make sure they’re the GOOD treats. A bit of skim string cheese is Peggy’s favourite. She’ll also do just about anything for a bit of plain chicken breast.

It’s unfortunate she had to be kennelled at such a pivotal age, but what’s done is done. And those rattlesnakes sure do add an extra layer of complication! Sheesh. I’m sorry.  Your poodle girl needs to be able to stretch her poodle legs with some yard zoomies.

Will someone be coming out to relocate them? Seems like an urgent situation, for sure.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Another thought...if she's not signaling or her signal is very subtle, have you tried training to ring bells at the door? Hang a string from the doorknob or place a bell or recordable button on the floor.

Several of us have trained our dogs to use these tools to communicate. Some folks have had issues with "go outside all the time" abuse but that can be managed by timing the treat/rewards only at the time and place of the act. Some do get a bit proud of themselves and go overboard but usually grow out of that overuse stage.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Since she’s still so young, it’s very possible she doesn’t yet have the control to recognize she has to go, signal she has to go, and then wait to be taken to her potty spot. Plus, with all that kennel time, she really hasn’t been housetrained yet.

I’m all about going back to basics and sticking with it religiously until she’s had at least 3 weeks without an accident. That means outings every hour or two, even though it may feel excessive, plus outings after every meal, play session, or confinement. It’s also important to make note of the exact time of all pees and poos (along with relevant details such as “just woke up from nap”) so you can start building a schedule.

She’s been at a boarding facility for close to half the time you’ve had her, right? With no potty training while she was there? Expecting her to have any idea what’s expected of her doesn’t really seem fair right now, even though I know it’s frustrating. Treat her like an 8-week-old puppy and try to be patient. If you can be _consistent_ for the next month or two, she’ll figure it out.


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