# Service dog questions



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

It seems like at least half of the members of PF have a service dog. I am wondering if you can answer the following questions to help educate me. I've been reading very contradictory information here lately and would like to clear some things up. Thanks in advance.

1. is there accredited training for service dogs?
2. what disabilities qualify one for a service dog?
3. are service dogs allowed to go everywhere with their owner? any exceptions?
4. can strangers pet a service dog?
5. can anyone say their dog is a service dog and get away with it?
6. are service dogs allowed to be protective of their owner?


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## West U (Jul 30, 2014)

I have been a landlord for 25 years, properties in Florida, Colorado, NEW Mexico. I am a big animal person, but some of the properties are HOA regulated.... good and bad. Very few dogs are considered service dogs. Just because we say so, or the internet says so, does not make it so. Therapy or emotional support animals \ dogs \ lizards, etc. Are not service animals. The legal definition of service animal is not well defined, but the law is being defined by real need and of course abuses. I chuckle when I see a dog or cat with a service dog vest, flying in and out of Aspen, CO, there are always a variety of "service animals" on the plane.


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## King Louie (May 27, 2016)

1. is there accredited training for service dogs? Yes there are some places that will help train your dog but it must pass a series of test to determine whether it will make a good service dog or not. If not they usually will help set you up with a dog that will fit your needs but these services can be very costly. 2. what disabilities qualify one for a service dog? Extreme Asthma, or breathing problems, high blood pressure, diabetes, having seizures, neurotic problems, being blind, or having physical disabilities like having trouble walking or getting around etc. 3. are service dogs allowed to go everywhere with their owner? Yes. Any exceptions? If the dog is being disruptive in an environment you can be asked to leave. 4. can strangers pet a service dog? Yes but should always ask first not everyone will allow this. I let people pet Adonis because I can sometimes answer their questions or help educate them but more importantly I need Adonis comfortable in any environment with anyone so if god forbid something were to happen he can go and get help from someone. At my local grocery store since I go there so much I like him to know the employees so he can identify who can help if the situation requires it. And they know if he ever comes to them barking and pawing at them then something is probably wrong and they should follow him where he leads them. 5. can anyone say their dog is a service dog and get away with it? Yes but if they ask to see the card and you don't have one then you could be in serious trouble. 6. are service dogs allowed to be protective of their owner? No because if something serious was happening and their not allowing anyone to help then what good is that doing.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

King Louie said:


> 1. is there accredited training for service dogs? Yes there are some places that will help train your dog but it must pass a series of test to determine whether it will make a good service dog or not. If not they usually will help set you up with a dog that will fit your needs but these services can be very costly. 2. what disabilities qualify one for a service dog? Extreme Asthma, or breathing problems, high blood pressure, diabetes, having seizures, neurotic problems, being blind, or having physical disabilities like having trouble walking or getting around etc. 3. are service dogs allowed to go everywhere with their owner? Yes. Any exceptions? If the dog is being disruptive in an environment you can be asked to leave. 4. can strangers pet a service dog? Yes but should always ask first not everyone will allow this. I let people pet Adonis because I can sometimes answer their questions or help educate them but more importantly I need Adonis comfortable in any environment with anyone so if god forbid something were to happen he can go and get help from someone. At my local grocery store since I go there so much I like him to know the employees so he can identify who can help if the situation requires it. And they know if he ever comes to them barking and pawing at them then something is probably wrong and they should follow him where he leads them. 5. can anyone say their dog is a service dog and get away with it? Yes but if they ask to see the card and you don't have one then you could be in serious trouble. 6. are service dogs allowed to be protective of their owner? No because if something serious was happening and their not allowing anyone to help then what good is that doing.



You may want to read up on this since, you know, you breed, train, and utilize multiple Service Dogs.
https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html


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## King Louie (May 27, 2016)

Tiny Poodles said:


> King Louie said:
> 
> 
> > 1. is there accredited training for service dogs? Yes there are some places that will help train your dog but it must pass a series of test to determine whether it will make a good service dog or not. If not they usually will help set you up with a dog that will fit your needs but these services can be very costly. 2. what disabilities qualify one for a service dog? Extreme Asthma, or breathing problems, high blood pressure, diabetes, having seizures, neurotic problems, being blind, or having physical disabilities like having trouble walking or getting around etc. 3. are service dogs allowed to go everywhere with their owner? Yes. Any exceptions? If the dog is being disruptive in an environment you can be asked to leave. 4. can strangers pet a service dog? Yes but should always ask first not everyone will allow this. I let people pet Adonis because I can sometimes answer their questions or help educate them but more importantly I need Adonis comfortable in any environment with anyone so if god forbid something were to happen he can go and get help from someone. At my local grocery store since I go there so much I like him to know the employees so he can identify who can help if the situation requires it. And they know if he ever comes to them barking and pawing at them then something is probably wrong and they should follow him where he leads them. 5. can anyone say their dog is a service dog and get away with it? Yes but if they ask to see the card and you don't have one then you could be in serious trouble. 6. are service dogs allowed to be protective of their owner? No because if something serious was happening and their not allowing anyone to help then what good is that doing.
> ...


I have read that and know the rules. I only suggest showing the card because it's easier takes 2 seconds and I'm fine. And really if they ask the dog to leave they might as well just ask you to leave what are people supposed to do put the dog in the car or tie it up somewhere in front? I've only been asked once if Adonis is a service dog and I've taken him to restaurants, Casinos, hospitals, and countless other places usually the workers get distracted by how cute he is and forget to ask. I suggest using small dogs as service dogs if you don't need the dog to physically help you walk or maneuver or guide you. Because I don't know how many people have actually put a large under the table laying down but for me and my long legs it's a bit of a hassle there never seems to be enough room it's so much easier just having the dog sleep on the bench next to me or on my lap. All of my dogs are trained to do tasks. I'm currently teaching Adonis how to open a cabinet then we'll work on retrieving the medicine or phone out of it. So far he's mastered when to detect if my breathing is off when I'm asleep and how to wake me to alert me. He's also learned how to speak and get attention now we're also working on the leading them to me part he has it about 40% down.


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## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

King Louie - a LOT of the information you provided is either misleading or completely wrong. I'd take TP's suggestion and refresh your knowledge of the laws. I'm usually hesitant to correct others on this forum (everyone has their own opinion and I'm no one's mother) but providing misinformation about service dogs is incredibly damaging to both handlers and the general public. 

1. There are places that offer service dog training, as well as organizations that provide fully trained service dogs. Many handlers also do their own training. There is no universal training or accreditation for service dogs in the US.

2. To qualify for a Service Dog, you require a disability and your disability must substantially limit one or more major life activities, including, but are not limited to, caring for oneself, performing manual tasks, seeing, hearing, eating, sleeping, walking, standing, lifting, bending, speaking, breathing, learning, reading, concentrating, thinking, communicating, and working. A dog must also be able to be trained to assist you with your disability in a way that goes beyond emotional support.

3. They can go anywhere with their handler EXCEPT places not covered by the ADA (churches, tribal land/buildings, etc), sterile envirnments (like an operating room), food prep areas like restaurant kitchens, and anywhere where a dog's presence might disturb (like in an open air aviary at a zoo where the birds might panic). You can also be asked to leave if your dog is being disruptive.

4. They can. They should not. Doing so without asking is a felony. Allowing strangers to pet your service dog (even if their 100% focus does not need to be on the handler) is considered very bad practice by most handlers, as it gives the public the false idea that all service dogs can be petted.

5. Yes. It is a felony if they are caught. The flexibility allowed in the law is for use by disabled individuals, but unfortunately it allows for abuse as well. 

6. This doesn't have an easy answer. Some members of the SD community considered being trained in a protective sport as a disqualification since under the law they are then also guard dogs. But there is no language prohibiting a single animal from being both a guard and a service animal - hence the disagreements. there are some cases where a service dog might be TRAINED to be protective of their owner. If the handler is dissociating and needs to be alone, a dog can be task-trained to clear space around them and give them space. 

There are NO cards for service dogs. Some handlers carry them, most don't. Lots also carry a little card with information about the ADA that basically says "stop asking about my dog". I'm writing from my phone right now, but if you're interested I can find the links on my computer to show a few examples


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## aasteapots (Oct 6, 2013)

Cold brew covered the answers properly. except #2
You do not have to have a disability that substantially limits major life activities. The other thing I would like to clarify is that your dog has to perform at LEAST TWO things to help/aid you to qualify as a service dog. 

There are no documents to prove your dog is a service animal. Anyone who says differently is wrong. The web sites that sell you paper work are bogus. If for some reason you are asked to show papers all you are required to have on you is an current registration/license from your town/city. It doesn't hurt to carry a small note card with your dogs hours of training and what their specific tasks are if you feel it necessary. Beyond that you own no explanation and you are not legally required to have some sort of documentation beyond what I noted above.

1. is there accredited training for service dogs?NO but there are places who will train service dogs
2. what disabilities qualify one for a service dog? there is no specific disability but you cannot count emotional or therapeutic support
3. are service dogs allowed to go everywhere with their owner? Yes any exceptions?Yes Non ADA compliant venues such as churches.
4. can strangers pet a service dog? Yes but they shouldn't and you shouldn't allow it. It distracts the dog while working which can put the l owner at serious risk
5. can anyone say their dog is a service dog and get away with it?THey can but they shouldn't. slapping a vest on a dog doesn't make it a service animal. Often times you can tell when someone is trying to pass off their dog because the behavior is not what you would expect.
6. are service dogs allowed to be protective of their owner?Yes and no. They can be protective for issues regarding PTSD where the dog places themselves between their owner and other but the dog can not be aggressive. EVER! There is a difference in training for protection and training a dog to be able to protect your space.


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## King Louie (May 27, 2016)

Coldbrew said:


> King Louie - a LOT of the information you provided is either misleading or completely wrong. I'd take TP's suggestion and refresh your knowledge of the laws. I'm usually hesitant to correct others on this forum (everyone has their own opinion and I'm no one's mother) but providing misinformation about service dogs is incredibly damaging to both handlers and the general public.
> 
> 1. There are places that offer service dog training, as well as organizations that provide fully trained service dogs. Many handlers also do their own training. There is no universal training or accreditation for service dogs in the US.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure where you think I'm wrong. If I choose to let someone pet my service dog it does not make me wrong I've met plenty of people that let people pet their service dogs. It's 100% up to the handler there is no wrong or right it's only one person preferences over another. As far as the disabilities I only listed a few I'm not going to go and list every single problem when I can name a few and you can still get the point or idea. There are places that help train service dogs I've been to a few but I prefer to do it myself it's cheaper and I go at my own pace. And like I said showing a card is whole lot easier and faster if someone ask it literally only 2 seconds. I have taken Adonis to church no problems he just recently went with me to a funeral no problems whatsoever. Maybe where you guys live it's really strict for me not so much. I don't believe in training a service dog to be protective if you're seriously injured and unable to command the dog and he goes into full on protect mode how is someone supposed to help you and all the training centers I've talked to and worked with highly discourage such training.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Thanks for your answers, everyone. I have more questions. How can a small dog be a service dog? Why is one with PTSD okay to have a service dog, but not someone with, say agoraphobia or bipolar disorder? Is PTSD the only mental disorder that qualifies someone for a service dog?


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## aasteapots (Oct 6, 2013)

a small dog can be a service dog if it can retrieve things for you. ( thats just a quick answer) No emotional problems of all kinds can use service dogs Here is the kicker... They have to be able to perform 2 tasks according to your disability. A comfort dog is just that. A dog that stays with a person to relieve anxiety and other mental health issues. NOW if a service dog used for emotional disabilities such as self harm,blocking,signaling, and proprioceptive therapy/feedback, then yes it can be used for mental or emotional issues. The key is what 2 tasks do they perform.


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## someday (May 3, 2016)

Just a note on small service dogs: A small dog worn on the chest is becoming more common for diabetic alert dogs. They smell their handler's breath often to detect chemical cues that indicate changes in blood sugar levels


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## someday (May 3, 2016)

I haven't seen anyone post this yet. This should be the first thing anyone reads if they have questions about service animals

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

zooeysmom said:


> Thanks for your answers, everyone. I have more questions. How can a small dog be a service dog? Why is one with PTSD okay to have a service dog, but not someone with, say agoraphobia or bipolar disorder? Is PTSD the only mental disorder that qualifies someone for a service dog?



They can be if they perform a task that mitigates their disability such as alerting them to take medication or leading them away from a trigger, or blocking people from approaching them.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

aasteapots said:


> a small dog can be a service dog if it can retrieve things for you. ( thats just a quick answer) No emotional problems of all kinds can use service dogs Here is the kicker... They have to be able to perform 2 tasks according to your disability. A comfort dog is just that. A dog that stays with a person to relieve anxiety and other mental health issues. NOW if a service dog used for emotional disabilities such as self harm,blocking,signaling, and proprioceptive therapy/feedback, then yes it can be used for mental or emotional issues. The key is what 2 tasks do they perform.



You appear well educated on this issue, except this "two task thing" - please show me the where in the ADA it says that. There are guide dogs that only lead the blind, there are hearing alert dogs that only alert the partner to sounds, there are medical alert dogs who only alert to a particular medical issue, there are allergy alert dogs that only alert to what their handler is allergic to. Mobility dogs usually will do multiple tasks such as retrieving dropped items,opening doors, carrying packages, turning on lights, etc. But there are many SD which only perform one function, and if that function does indeed mitigate a disability which impacts a major life function, they are indeed a legitimate SD.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

zooeysmom said:


> Thanks for your answers, everyone. I have more questions. How can a small dog be a service dog? Why is one with PTSD okay to have a service dog, but not someone with, say agoraphobia or bipolar disorder? Is PTSD the only mental disorder that qualifies someone for a service dog?


Just to be 100% clear, I don't have a service dog. I just happen to have done a lot of reading on the subject because I think it is amazing what dogs can learn to do and how they can help people.

There are quite a few tasks that small dogs can do. For example, diabetic alert, seizure alert, alerting a hearing impaired owner to sounds (smoke detector, phone, doorbell, etc), or interrupting obsessive compulsive behaviors (depending on what behavior the person does, of course). It probably makes a lot of sense for some owners to choose a small dog, since they are easier to take places. 

Any mental disorder can qualify someone for a service dog if that disorder limits major life activities. I think PTSD just gets the most press because we have a lot of veterans who suffer from it. I read an article not too long ago about a service dog for someone with depression. The dog had been trained to push a button on a device that would call for help if the person wouldn't get up after a certain period of time. The dog would try to get the person up by pawing and licking them, and then if they didn't respond the dog would push the button and the device would automatically make a phone call. It could be set up to call a family member, a Dr. or therapist, or even 911. 

Another thing to keep in mind is that something could be a disability for one person even though it isn't for another person. For example, my fiancé and I both have asthma (both were premature babies, lol). Asthma isn't a disability for either of us, because it really only impacts our lives if we happen to get sick, and it was worse when we were kids. But it could be a disability for someone else. I had one really bad asthma attack as a child (bad enough for 911 to be called). I remember it vividly because it was one of the scariest things that has happened to me. Fortunately when it happened my mom was right there because I woke up unable to breathe or ask for help. I can see where if someone frequently had attacks like that a service dog could be needed/helpful. The dog could go get medication, another person, or possibly call 911 if the person had a device like the service dog for depression was trained to use.


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## 67x (Jul 3, 2015)

That all fell far short of my expectations. You can claim anything and you don't have to prove it. Really? 

I'm now the proud owner of a service dog, I guess. Leila alerts me when I'm about to sneeze and she lets me know when I have to poop so I don't poop my pants. 

Don't you judge me!


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

As a greater variety of service dogs has begun to be deployed, while it has in some cases made it easier for fakers, I still want to never approach someone with a stated or implied service dog with suspicion. It is I think hugely cruel and humiliating to presume a service dog is a fake because one cannot see a person's disability.

And I'm seeing that happen often online. Often in a somewhat sneering, superior, holier than thou tone of posting. I feel it is important to, if one has to bother to get involved in the first place, first assume good rather than ill intent. Not speaking directly to anyone here, and am speaking indirectly to exactly such a statement I have seen within the last week.

I have also read the whole 'everyone's trying to fake it now' was a rumor started by a service animal agency, and that the actual incidence of such situations is far fewer than the public is now led to believe. Perhaps it's time to let our laws evolve to less and less reflect pets as livestock and allow them easier access to more parts of our lives. I wonder if that wouldn't reduce rehoming by many thousands of pets.

May I as a wholly imperfect person please offer no harm nor hostility. Nor pry into another's private medical details--the horror of doing so! May I do what leaves a good memory, if any. Then if things go south, may I walk away or take the least possible action, for I have no idea of the troubles running through any other human and that person's life. (A prayer.)


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

67x said:


> That all fell far short of my expectations. You can claim anything and you don't have to prove it. Really?
> 
> I'm now the proud owner of a service dog, I guess. Leila alerts me when I'm about to sneeze and she lets me know when I have to poop so I don't poop my pants.
> 
> Don't you judge me!


To me the law as I understand it and what I have read is written expecting people to behave as adults and use the rules appropriately. It has to create a balance and offer appropriate levels of protection so as not to expect people to have to divulge great personal details. In a free land, there is much to consider. Coldbrew described the magnitude of what false claims can cost a person.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

Streetcar said:


> As a greater variety of service dogs has begun to be deployed, while it has in some cases made it easier for fakers, I still want to never approach someone with a stated or implied service dog with suspicion. It is I think hugely cruel and humiliating to presume a service dog is a fake because one cannot see a person's disability.
> 
> And I'm seeing that happen often online. Often in a somewhat sneering, superior, holier than thou tone of posting. I feel it is important to, if one has to bother to get involved in the first place, first assume good rather than ill intent. Not speaking directly to anyone here, and am speaking indirectly to exactly such a statement I have seen within the last week.
> 
> ...


I agree 100% with this post. My mentality has always been that I would never feel that it was appropriate to question someone who was using a wheelchair, cane, oxygen tank or walker, or accuse them of not really needing it or not really being disabled. I don't think it is any more appropriate to question someone with a service dog.


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## aasteapots (Oct 6, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> You appear well educated on this issue, except this "two task thing" - please show me the where in the ADA it says that. There are guide dogs that only lead the blind, there are hearing alert dogs that only alert the partner to sounds, there are medical alert dogs who only alert to a particular medical issue, there are allergy alert dogs that only alert to what their handler is allergic to. Mobility dogs usually will do multiple tasks such as retrieving dropped items,opening doors, carrying packages, turning on lights, etc. But there are many SD which only perform one function, and if that function does indeed mitigate a disability which impacts a major life function, they are indeed a legitimate SD.


There are NO guide dogs for the blind that only lead the blind person. if a blind person has a guide dogs it has many many tasks. 
Medical specific service dogs are still required to perform 2 tasks. I have been working closely with Guiding eyes for the blind, ECAD and NEADS for over four years and they all insist that a service animal must perform 2 tasks directly related to your disability. They are the experts. If you don't believe me feel free to inquire on your own. Legally you are required to say what those tasks are if questioned.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

aasteapots said:


> There are NO guide dogs for the blind that only lead the blind person. if a blind person has a guide dogs it has many many tasks.
> Medical specific service dogs are still required to perform 2 tasks. I have been working closely with Guiding eyes for the blind, ECAD and NEADS for over four years and they all insist that a service animal must perform 2 tasks directly related to your disability. They are the experts. If you don't believe me feel free to inquire on your own. Legally you are required to say what those tasks are if questioned.



Those agencies may have decided that that is their policy, and that is fine, however their policies do not re-write the ADA, nor should it. Most pieces of medical equipment only serve one function, and legally a Service Dog is a piece of medical equipment.
Please do not quote any Service Dog facts that are not contained in the ADA.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

there may be some confusion here re the role of the number two in assessing whether a dog is a service animal. as tiny said, there is no two task rule under the ada, which supersedes any state or local law. but the person using a service dog must be able to answer two (and only two) questions if asked: is this a service animal and what task does it perform. preservation of individual privacy and respect for the individual is paramount in selecting this approach and overrides the possibility of scammers and fakes. (by the way, only dogs and miniature horses are recognized as service animals by the ada, which governs access to public areas or businesses/organizations, etc., considered to be providing services to the public.)

there are differences with regard to service and emotional support animals governed under the fair housing act. the need for a service or emotional support animal in one's home generally supersedes any hoa no pet/animal rules. but i suppose because of the fact that it's a living situation, more extensive documentation of the service or support provided can be required of the person claiming to need such an animal, including documentation from a physician.

my aoao was sued by someone claiming our requirement that her dog be leashed was a violation of her rights under the fha. she could not, however, demonstrate how being unleashed in public was necessary for her dog to perform its function as a seizure alert dog and lost her case before the civil rights commission. i was a witness to her dog (a yorkie) running about 100 yards behind her while she roller skated, which certainly raised questions about his ability to alert for seizures from that distance, but the real question was how being unleashed was _necessary_ to his abiiity to perform the alert function.


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## aasteapots (Oct 6, 2013)

if the law has changed it is very very recent. I am not speaking form inexperience. So recent in fact that my friend who just brought home her service dog in June had the same requirements. The trainers are not ADA lawyers and I'm sure you are speaking from experience as you are one? Is that correct? The legal standing documents from the ADA are long and complicated. Changes made are also long and complicated as well so if you are so adamant About being the service dog police then I urge you to read the documents themselves and not the simplified requirements on the ADA web site for people who are not Ada lawyers. You do not have to explain to me that service dog are medical equipment. These organizations have been around A long time and have made it clear that it is the law not their policy. Again if the law has changed and you as an ADA expert know of This change then thanks for the info. Until then I will stick to the service dog training experts.


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## aasteapots (Oct 6, 2013)

Look under the heading work or tasks last paragraph. 
What are the Minimum Training Standards for a Service Dog? - Anything PawsableAnything Pawsable


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

it does have a disclaimer saying "while not required by law." i am not a lawyer, but i did work closely with our attorney in the case brought against my aoao. i did a lot of the research, including finding material our attorney used, and also looked into whether we were missing something applicable under the ada despite our being under the fha.

i really didn't find that any facility subject to the ada can ask what two tasks your service dog performs. they can only ask what service they perform. if you say you are legally blind and your dog is a guide dog, that's pretty much it. i think we have to keep in mind that at one point service dog and seeing-eye dog were synonymous and there was no expectation of two distinct tasks, even though i'm pretty sure many of these dogs can and do do much more than the general public realizes, but i also think that the ada was not meant in any way to override assumptions about seeing eye dogs performing one task or create any impediment to their recognition that did not exist before.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

67x said:


> That all fell far short of my expectations. You can claim anything and you don't have to prove it. Really?
> 
> I'm now the proud owner of a service dog, I guess. Leila alerts me when I'm about to sneeze and she lets me know when I have to poop so I don't poop my pants.
> 
> Don't you judge me!


.

Let's go over some basic ground rules: What is a disability?

"An individual has a “disability” under the ADA if he or she has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, including major bodily functions such as the functions of the immune system; has a record of such an impairment; or has an actual or perceived mental or physical impairment that is not transitory and minor and is subjected to an action prohibited under the ADA."

What is a service dog?
"A service animal is a dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for a person with a disability."

Alerting you that you are about to sneeze, not a service dog task.
Alerting you that you are about to have a seizure, service dog task.

Alerting you that you need to poop, not a service dog task.
Fetching a colostomy bag for you, service dog task.

Review: 
A condition that limits normal life functions is a disability. 
Service dogs are individually trained to do specific work to help a person with a disability.

I hope this clears it up for you.

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm


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## Camaro (Aug 29, 2016)

I am the handler for my son's service dog, my son is on the Autism Spectrum so Camaro is trained in behavior disruption, tethering, and tracking.

First thing I want to address is your second set of questions, specifically the one about PTSD and other psychiatric disabilities. The best way I know to explain it is that it is not the diagnosis that determines if it is a service dog it is the training. For example before we applied for a service dog we got a cat as an Emotional Support Animal (we were living in no pet rental housing at the time). When my son would have a meltdown one of us would hold him and the other would get the cat and when we touched the cat to his face it would redirect and refocus him, which would end the meltdown. The service dog is trained to recognize the beginnings of a meltdown and depending on the situation respond on his own with the appropriate disruption technique. End result is the same, stops the meltdown, but how it happens is the difference.

We do allow others to pet him depending on the situation. Though it does not count as a task the resulting social interaction has been a great benefit for my son's development. In the resulting conversation we do explain that while we allow it most service dog handlers do not, and explain why we do and they do not.

The ADA does not require more than one task, and it never has. Training organizations may make their own rules requiring a specific minimum number, ADI organizations require 3, but the federal regulations have no such requirement. Notice it says "task(s)" in the question and answer sheet released by the Dept of Justice, allowing the possibility of a single task. https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html Here is the complete 2010 (most recent) regulations including section by section guidance of both the 2010 regulations and the 1991 regulations, nowhere is there a requirement for more than one task. https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/titleIII_2010/titleIII_2010_regulations.htm

In the 2010 section by section analysis from that link there is a discussion about "minimal protection". It is lengthy, and since there are no page numbers in that do a "control f" and search for "minimal protection" to find it. This is a statement from the concluding paragraph "Therefore, the Department has decided to modify the ‘‘minimal protection'' language to read ‘‘nonviolent protection,'' thereby excluding so-called ‘attack dogs'' or dogs with traditional ‘‘protection training'' as service animals."

Someone mentioned service animals on flights. Here is an important point that most people are not aware of, the ADA is not the only federal law that covers service animals. The Rehab Act, Fair Housing Act, and Air Carrier's Access Act were all put in place before the ADA, each of the 4 laws has their own area they apply to and are regulated by different agencies. https://www.ada.gov/cguide.htm

Section 504 of the Rehab Act of 1973 "states that "no qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall be excluded from, denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under" any program or activity that either receives Federal financial assistance or is conducted by any Executive agency or the United States Postal Service."

The Fair Housing Act as amended in 1988 applies to most housing in the US. It requires landlords to make reasonable accommodations for "Assistance Animals" which include both Service Animals and Emotional Support Animals. When the disability and/or disability related need is not obvious landlords may require documentation from a treating licensed medical professional.

The Air Carrier's Access Act of 1986 is the one that can cause the most confusion. Unlike the FHA which uses the term "Assistance Animal", the ACAA uses the term Service Animal but defines it differently than the ADA does. The ACAA defines Service Animal as "Any animal that is individually trained or able to provide assistance to a qualified person with a disability; or any animal shown by documentation to be necessary for the emotional well being of a passenger." So unlike the ADA, under the ACAA, Emotional Support Animals are considered Service Animals. However the ACAA allows airlines, in the case of ESAs and Psychiatric Service Animals, to require 48 hours advanced notice and recent (less than a year old) documentation from a treating licensed medical professional.

If you want to know anything else or want me to clarify anything feel free to ask.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

aasteapots said:


> Look under the heading work or tasks last paragraph.
> 
> What are the Minimum Training Standards for a Service Dog? - Anything PawsableAnything Pawsable



Well that's just another self-appointed "certification seller" - yes, with much higher standards than most of them, but still at it's core it is just the same. Their rules, while mostly drawn from ADA, are partially their beliefs, and nothing more. And thank goodness - it would be a shame if the ADA told someone that their dog who alerts them when the phone rings, but does not also bring the phone to them, or that their dog who alerts them that their blood sugar is low, but does not also bring them a candy bar are not Service Dogs!


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## Camaro (Aug 29, 2016)

Streetcar said:


> I have also read the whole 'everyone's trying to fake it now' was a rumor started by a service animal agency, and that the actual incidence of such situations is far fewer than the public is now led to believe. Perhaps it's time to let our laws evolve to less and less reflect pets as livestock and allow them easier access to more parts of our lives. I wonder if that wouldn't reduce rehoming by many thousands of pets.


I don't know if this is what you have read but it is a very good take on it. "Fake Service Dogs: Problem or Propaganda?" by the President of the National Assoc. of Guide Dog Users.

I think he left out some key points that he should have added.


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## 67x (Jul 3, 2015)

For the record, I read all the responses and all the articles presented. I fully understand the intent implied. I'm simply underwhelmed by how vague the needs and requirements turned out to be. I in no way begrudge an honest persons use of a legitimate service dog.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

The ADA was written to be as inclusive as possible, hence the vague language. The key things to remember are a disability interrupts at least one major life function. And a service dog is trained, on purpose, to assist with the loss of a major life function.

Not all disabilities are visible, but invisible disabilities can be just as crippling as visible ones. Like it was said before, we don't assume someone who uses oxygen is faking, let's not assume someone who has a service dog is faking, too.

That being said, it's the training that tells you the difference. A service dog should behaving in public as well, or better, than a five-year-old child on their best behavior. If you look at the criteria for passing the CGCA test, that's what a service dog has to be able to do in public at a minimum. 

Life with a service dog is not easy. There will be people who yell at you.
There will be people who deliberately distract your dog. Teenagers will dare each other to kick your dog, or pretend to kick your dog. Children will scream at your dog. Adults will also scream at your dog. 

That being said, a service dog is a life changer. I miss Honey. On the day Honey died, I dropped my glucose meter on the floor. She got up and retrieved it for me before I had a chance to get it. Such a good dog. 

Noelle is Honey's successor. She'll be trained to unload the dryer, pick up dropped things, and alert to blood sugar changes. I have several disabilities. Right now, Noelle is at least a year away from being a service dog, maybe even two years. But she has promise and that gives me hope.


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## aasteapots (Oct 6, 2013)

For Tiny and Camaro....
third line down.....ADA Training Requirements

I am sure this is what they are speaking of. Task and work and requirements may be muddled. Like I said I have been doing this since 2005. This is not my first rodeo and this will be my 2nd & 3rd service animal both dogs will work for my sons with autism. 

Also Tethering is highly frowned upon by the service dog community including dogs for autism. MOST ( not all) reputable programs that train dogs for autistic children will not allow them to be tethered to the child it is to great a risk.


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## aasteapots (Oct 6, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Well that's just another self-appointed "certification seller" - yes, with much higher standards than most of them, but still at it's core it is just the same. Their rules, while mostly drawn from ADA, are partially their beliefs, and nothing more. And thank goodness - it would be a shame if the ADA told someone that their dog who alerts them when the phone rings, but does not also bring the phone to them, or that their dog who alerts them that their blood sugar is low, but does not also bring them a candy bar are not Service Dogs!


I Was just showing you that other places beyond just the amended ADA web page does state two tasks. I wasn't pulling this out of thin air. I was just showing a different source of the same belief.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

This is copied from the DOJ's response to public comments that it received during the review of the ADA regulations regarding service animals. The bolding is mine.



> “Doing work” or “performing tasks” The NPRM proposed that the Department maintain the requirement first articulated in the l991 title III regulation that in order to qualify as a service animal, the animal must "perform tasks" or "do work" for the individual with a disability. The phrases "perform tasks" and "do work" describe what an animal must do for the benefit of an individual with a disability in order to qualify as a service animal.
> 
> The Department received a number of comments in response to the NPRM proposal urging the removal of the term "do work" from the definition of a service animal. These commenters argued that the Department should emphasize the performance of tasks instead. The Department disagrees. Although the common definition of work includes the performance of tasks, the definition of work is somewhat broader, encompassing activities that do not appear to involve physical action.
> 
> ...


Here's my take on all this: The ADA uses "tasks or work" in the definition of what makes a dog qualify as a service dog. Based on that, a lot of organizations have interpreted that to mean that a dog needs to do two or more tasks. Those organizations can't determine if your dog is a service dog or not because they are private organizations. However, they can set whatever standard they want for their membership or dogs that they train. 

Reading the DOJ response to public comments, it certainly seems like the DOJ would consider a dog trained to simply recognize an impending seizure or change in blood sugar and alert the handler to be a service dog, as would a dog trained to respond a certain way to a handler's panic attack or other psychiatric event.


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## Camaro (Aug 29, 2016)

aasteapots said:


> For Tiny and Camaro....
> third line down.....ADA Training Requirements
> 
> I am sure this is what they are speaking of. Task and work and requirements may be muddled. Like I said I have been doing this since 2005. This is not my first rodeo and this will be my 2nd & 3rd service animal both dogs will work for my sons with autism.
> ...


Again that is someone's interpretation of the law, the regulations say nothing about more than one task being required. Second it doesn't say what you seem to think it says. Two training requirements, trained to perform a task and trained to behave in public, not trained to perform 2 tasks.

"The Definition of a Service Animal under the Americans With Disabilities Act and Guidance documents from the U.S. Department of Justice have established *two training requirements* for a Service Animal. The first is that a service animal must be individually trained to perform tasks or work for the benefit of a disabled individual. The second is that a service animal must be trained to behave properly in places of public accommodation. Inappropriate behavior that disrupts the normal course of business or threatens the health or safety of others is automatic grounds for excluding the team from the premises."

Tethering is a tool, like most tools when used incorrectly it can be dangerous. When done correctly there is minimal risk.


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## Granberry (Nov 17, 2014)

Camaro said:


> ...The best way I know to explain it is that it is not the diagnosis that determines if it is a service dog it is the training. For example before we applied for a service dog we got a cat as an Emotional Support Animal (we were living in no pet rental housing at the time). When my son would have a meltdown one of us would hold him and the other would get the cat and when we touched the cat to his face it would redirect and refocus him, which would end the meltdown. The service dog is trained to recognize the beginnings of a meltdown and depending on the situation respond on his own with the appropriate disruption technique. End result is the same, stops the meltdown, but how it happens is the difference...


I think this is the type of situation (i.e., with the cat as an "Emotional Support Animal") that gives service dogs a bad rap. Just because a fuzzy cat may be helpful in a situation doesn't mean that a cat should always be allowed. As you said, it isn't trained...it's no more skilled than a stuffed animal. A landlord should be allowed to say "no" to that cat even if it's helpful...cats cause odor and fur, and everything else. Personally, I am violently allergic to cats, which is probably why this gets my dander up a bit (forgive the pun).  People can't readily see the difference between the "Emotional Support Animal" and a service dog, so they lump them in the same category. 

It seems like as soon as someone allows veterans to use a trained service dog for emotional support, someone will take that and twist it and abuse the privilege.

I'm glad you have a full-blown service dog now, even if I am not a fan of the cat.


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## Granberry (Nov 17, 2014)

67x said:


> For the record, I read all the responses and all the articles presented. I fully understand the intent implied. I'm simply underwhelmed by how vague the needs and requirements turned out to be. I in no way begrudge an honest persons use of a legitimate service dog.


I'm with you, actually. I appreciate those who've quoted the ADA and the other acts, though. I think I just want the rules to be set in stone because humans have a tendency to stretch the rules to get what they want.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

it may be somewhat hard to wrap our heads around, but as streetcar and click-n-treat pointed out, a choice was made in crafting the ada to lean in favor of persons with disabilities. even then, people wanted all kinds of emotional support animals included and congress decided to stick with service dogs (and, in some instances, miniature ponies), probably precisely because we have lots of documentation of trainability. 

i have a french acquaintance who proudly set forth the french system, which involves having government issued papers that can be shown if challenged. can you imagine someone with a disability having to go through all kinds of hoops and then having to wait to get such documents issued? and the cost of administering a system, to both the disabled person and the government? nightmare.

there were also "professionals" who wanted certification of animals as fully trained, which, of course, would be at the end of a course given by them. nice way to build a business for oneself were that to become a requirement. and an unnecessary financial burden for many who have testified here they are training their dogs on their own.

given the nature of government in the u.s., i think the ada is in many ways a remarkable document that recognizes the stakes for the most important person involved - the disabled individual faced with living in our society. it actually takes great skill and experience to create rules that allow people to move forward without being wrapped first in red tape. 

enforcement is always seen as a serious issue by both the person needing to be understood and the person being asked to understand. but if there is an enforcement burden, should it be taken out on the person most in need of help, keeping in mind the difficulties they face in living in society? minimizing harm means compromises. not everyone is happy with the end result. but without the ada, many who are now able to fend for themselves in society would instead be confined at home.


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## Shadoo (Jun 8, 2016)

Granberry said:


> I think this is the type of situation (i.e., with the cat as an "Emotional Support Animal") that gives service dogs a bad rap. Just because a fuzzy cat may be helpful in a situation doesn't mean that a cat should always be allowed. As you said, it isn't trained...it's no more skilled than a stuffed animal. A landlord should be allowed to say "no" to that cat even if it's helpful...cats cause odor and fur, and everything else. Personally, I am violently allergic to cats, which is probably why this gets my dander up a bit (forgive the pun).  People can't readily see the difference between the "Emotional Support Animal" and a service dog, so they lump them in the same category.
> 
> It seems like as soon as someone allows veterans to use a trained service dog for emotional support, someone will take that and twist it and abuse the privilege.
> 
> I'm glad you have a full-blown service dog now, even if I am not a fan of the cat.


Emotional service animals can be very important and are much different than a stuffed animal. I looked into them a lot becuase of my disability mosty impacts me at home emtionally. They have different rules and regulations and their biggest privilege is to be able to live in no pet housing. They cannot be disruptive or damaging to the integrity of the house. They also must be prescribed by a doctor. 

The main problem is that people are clueless about the difference between ESAs and Service animals, which is the actual issue, not people owning an animal that helps them not have panic attacks at home etc.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

This is a serious question, I'm not trying to be snarky - for those of you that think the current requirements are too vague, what sort of requirements do you think there should be?


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

ONLY 1 TASK is required by the ADA the 2 task thing came from ADI which is NOT a regulatory agency. After all most DAD do one thing alert to blood glucose levels that is ONE task but they are still considered legitimate service dogs. Same with allergy dogs.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

One thing to keep in mind regarding US disability law is that many disabled people live below the poverty line and in rural areas of the United States. So any kind of in-person certification program becomes a problem both in terms of expense and access. If you live, say, 100 miles away from the nearest accredited trainer, and you have a disability that makes travel difficult, then you can end up in a situation where either the government is expending enormous resources to get you the accommodation you need, or you're effectively cut off from it altogether. If you look at disability demographics, that's a very real scenario.

When evaluating whether laws are strict enough or not, you have to look at the balance of harm. At present, there's more potential harm in cutting disabled people off from what they need, than there is actual harm being caused by people exploiting the law. If there's a big problem with fake service dogs in an area, then it may be time to educate businesses on the rights they already have - for example, they may eject a dangerous or disruptive dog even if the handler is legitimately disabled.


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## aasteapots (Oct 6, 2013)

Camaro said:


> Tethering is a tool, like most tools when used incorrectly it can be dangerous. When done correctly there is minimal risk.


Tethering and the Autism Assistance Dog - Monkey Tail Ranch
Tethering | Service Dog Central
Story of My Service Dog: Tethering Kids to Dogs


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Coming late to the party and many have already answered your questions but here are my answers... 


1. is there accredited training for service dogs?
Not in the US but there are in other nations.
2. what disabilities qualify one for a service dog?
Any disability that impairs your quality of life, it can be physical or mental as long as it keeps you from living a “normal” life. 
3. are service dogs allowed to go everywhere with their owner? any exceptions?
There are exceptions such as churches, federal properties, private homes, Sterile environments and kitchens in restaurants are also off limits. 
4. can strangers pet a service dog? 
Yes but they should ask first and the handler may or may not allow it. Please don’t bitch us out if we say no sometimes all we want to do is run in grab the milk and run out again not become a circus attraction or educational event. 
5. can anyone say their dog is a service dog and get away with it?
Well yes and no. Legally a service dog is individually trained to perform work or tasks that help their disabled handler live as normal a life as possible. That said some people feel that they are privileged and can take untrained pets anywhere by simply calling them service dogs. There are two questions a business or gatekeeper can legally ask: Is that a service dog? and What tasks or work does it perform? Comfort is NOT a task, making you feel better is NOT a task. Psych service dogs are as highly trained as mobility and guide dogs and will perform tasks that help their handlers. 
6. are service dogs allowed to be protective of their owner? 
Not in an aggressive manner but their mere presence can have a protective effect.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I loved that list! The circus act issue. OMG! Exactly. We're not here for your entertainment. We're not here for your inspiration. We're not here for your education. We're not here to edify you. We are here in this store to buy milk because someone put the milk carton back in the fridge with 1/4 teaspoon of milk left in the bottom and.. and... hmm, sounds like this belongs in pet peeves! LOL! 

I trained Honey, "Be boring" Which meant don't react to petting. It was pretty funny when people got zero satisfaction from petting her because she sat still like a dog statue. "Make a friend" gave her permission to greet. Honey and I had a psychic bond. She knew what to do before I told her. And... now I'm gonna cry again. Wow, I miss my service dog.


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## Camaro (Aug 29, 2016)

aasteapots said:


> Tethering and the Autism Assistance Dog - Monkey Tail Ranch
> Tethering | Service Dog Central
> Story of My Service Dog: Tethering Kids to Dogs


I'm not really sure what your point is. I said that like any tool it can be dangerous when done incorrectly. The first link you posted talks about the dangers of doing it wrong and then talks about how they train and use tethering. The next two links are blogs talking about examples of doing it dangerously. 

Here is a link discussing the most dangerous tools, the difference is they don't say the tool is bad and should not be used, just that it needs to be used correctly and with care. The 5 Most Dangerous Tools, And How To Use Them Safely


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## 67x (Jul 3, 2015)

FireStorm said:


> This is a serious question, I'm not trying to be snarky - for those of you that think the current requirements are too vague, what sort of requirements do you think there should be?


I don't have that answer. What I do have is something to consider. By law you are allowed to bring your service dog into a business, be it a restaurant, a bar, kiddy play land, whatever, that does NOT want animals of any kind. The rules as written also suggest to me that if you were to simply doubt some ones service dog as being legit you've now opened yourself up to a lot of negative potentials. I believe if you deserve these privileges then they need to be readily supported, openly via some form legitimacy. I cannot see where making your disability some one else's problem is a good thing and this law does just that. A lot of people don't trust dogs, nor should they be made to.

I have to go to bed but understand this, I'm very sympathetic to every ones disabilities and I wish you did not have them. For what it's worth, I believe we ALL have issues. I appreciate the effort of everyone that has contributed.


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## someday (May 3, 2016)

67x said:


> I don't have that answer. What I do have is something to consider. By law you are allowed to bring your service dog into a business, be it a restaurant, a bar, kiddy play land, whatever, that does NOT want animals of any kind. The rules as written also suggest to me that if you were to simply doubt some ones service dog as being legit you've now opened yourself up to a lot of negative potentials. I believe if you deserve these privileges then they need to be readily supported, openly via some form legitimacy. I cannot see where making your disability some one else's problem is a good thing and this law does just that. A lot of people don't trust dogs, nor should they be made to.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to go to bed but understand this, I'm very sympathetic to every ones disabilities and I wish you did not have them. For what it's worth, I believe we ALL have issues. I appreciate the effort of everyone that has contributed.




I know that you're not intentionally being insensitive, but I think you should know that it definitely sounds like you are implying that disabilities aren't all that bad because sometimes the average person goes through draining/difficult things too. And that disabled people who use service dogs are a burden to other people for using accommodations to improve their quality of life in a way that may be inconvenient or unpleasant for others. 

I really believe that this is something people will just have to accept a compromise on. I can see how it seems unfair for several reasons, but people need their service animals. What's more unfair: someone afraid of or allergic to dogs having to be around a service dog, or someone housebound because they live by themselves and fear being alone in the big, crazy world because they never know when they may have a seizure at a moment's notice? Someone who dissociates/loses track of reality and wanders away into a dangerous part of town because you can't just hire a human being to keep tabs on you all the time? There are so many more. And having them go through registries or pay tens of thousands of dollars and all the other issues people brought up in the thread, that's just not right. People with disabilities don't need more obstacles. 

It's not an even deal, I know, but look at how many people service dogs help. I think it's worth it.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

67x said:


> I don't have that answer. What I do have is something to consider. By law you are allowed to bring your service dog into a business, be it a restaurant, a bar, kiddy play land, whatever, that does NOT want animals of any kind. The rules as written also suggest to me that if you were to simply doubt some ones service dog as being legit you've now opened yourself up to a lot of negative potentials. I believe if you deserve these privileges then they need to be readily supported, openly via some form legitimacy. I cannot see where making your disability some one else's problem is a good thing and this law does just that. A lot of people don't trust dogs, nor should they be made to.


The problem with that mentality is that if you give businesses the option to ban service dogs just because they don't want them there, you are also preventing a disabled person from accessing the business. It's unfortunate that a non disabled person might be mildly inconvenienced by the needs of a disabled person, but I can say with 100% certainty that the person with the disability is experiencing a greater degree of inconvenience. People shouldn't be interacting with the service dog, and the dog shouldn't be trying to interact with the dog, so I think the vast majority of folks can be in the same room with a properly trained service dog without an issue. And if someone is so afraid of dogs that they cannot be in the room with one, why does that trump whatever issue the disabled person is dealing with?

It can be difficult, if you've never experienced a disability that limits your ability to do normal day-to-day activities or had a family member with such a disability what that is like. It's easy to sit on the outside, and look at that person and say that they should be able to cope better because we all have issues. The reality is, the person would probably really like to be not dealing with their disability but it just isn't that simple.

I wish I could do a better job of explaining what I mean. To give an example...maybe it's not a good one, but I suffer from severe migraines, as I mentioned in another thread. When I tell some one that, instead of thinking "migraines, a neurological disorder" they hear "headaches" and think something along the lines of "everyone gets headaches, she should just toughen up and deal with it. I wouldn't let a headache stop me from doing what I needed to do." They don't grasp the reality that I would love to be able to do whatever it was that I had planned, but instead I spent 12-24 hours curled up in the dark throwing up, not able to even open my eyes, and then another day or two feeling hungover. I can't tough it out. It is physically impossible. 

It's like if someone says they have an anxiety disorder or PTSD, and someone else thinks/says "everyone gets nervous or stressed from time to time, it's not a big deal." But it is a big deal, if the anxiety is so bad stopping the person from leading a normal life, stopping you from doing normal things like buying groceries or going to work or school. 

Businesses do have rights, they can ask two questions to verify the legitimacy of a service dog. They can also ask that the service animal be removed if it is disruptive or damaging property. I think the biggest problem is that some businesses do not understand the law. So if there is a person with a poorly trained/misbehaving dog (real service dog or fake) the business owners or employees don't know what they can do. I think perhaps educating people about the laws that are already in place could be a big help to everyone involved.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Access to places of public accommodation is a civil rights issue. The dog has zero civil rights. The PERSON has civil rights. People with disabilities accompanied by service dogs can go anywhere a person without disabilities can go. Exceptions are private spaces like churches and private members only clubs. 

There are federal and state consequences for violating the civil rights of a person with disabilities. "But, I don't want the dog in my store," is not an acceptable answer. Substitute the word dog with any race or religion and read it again. The ADA is not a new law, but a 26-year-old law. 

Business owners can ask, "is that a service dog?" And, "What is your dog trained to do?" I would always drop a credit card on the floor. Honey would pick it up and hand it to me. She also picked up dimes, dollar bills and...

This isn't about forcing my dog on people who don't want her around. It's about living with dignity.

Life is so hard without Honey. If I drop something in the store, I have to ask someone to help me pick it up. And if I drop it again, they give me a dirty look. And I don't like that. I don't like having to hang on to the edge of the dryer, try to keep my balance when I take the clothes out. I miss having Honey pop her head in the dryer and empty it for me. If I dropped a bag of chips in the store, she picked it up and handed it to me. I lost independence when she died, and as an American... Independence matters.

I gotta go cry now.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

there's a saying about walking a mile in someone else's shoes. the truth is that if any of us without disabilities had to do that, we probably wouldn't make it 10 feet. and there is no guarantee that any without difficulties now will never have them. age changes our bodies and our lives. this is about finding a way to treat fellow human beings with the same respect and dignity we want for ourselves. and that's why i find the ada to be such a remarkable piece of legislation. it's not perfect, but it basically touches all the bases with regard to that respect and dignity.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Patk, you said it. I lose dignity every time I drop something, ask a human to pick it up for me, and then drop it again. How many times will you bend over and pick up a dollar for me before you get angry? Four times? Seven? I dropped the same dollar 18 times in a row. Honey got it for me 18 times and never once made fun of me for it. She didn't tease me, or laugh, or judge me, or hurt me. She just retrieved it 18 times.

And I really miss her right now. 

Noelle starts CGC class tomorrow night at the same club where Honey got her CGC. At the same club where I met my first poodle and decided my next dog would be a poodle. Noelle has potential. Tomorrow will be our first real step toward creating a magical life together. Time to dry my tears and charge up my clicker. Noelle, are you ready? Because I am.


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## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

lisasgirl said:


> One thing to keep in mind regarding US disability law is that many disabled people live below the poverty line and in rural areas of the United States. So any kind of in-person certification program becomes a problem both in terms of expense and access. If you live, say, 100 miles away from the nearest accredited trainer, and you have a disability that makes travel difficult, then you can end up in a situation where either the government is expending enormous resources to get you the accommodation you need, or you're effectively cut off from it altogether. If you look at disability demographics, that's a very real scenario.
> 
> When evaluating whether laws are strict enough or not, you have to look at the balance of harm. At present, there's more potential harm in cutting disabled people off from what they need, than there is actual harm being caused by people exploiting the law. If there's a big problem with fake service dogs in an area, then it may be time to educate businesses on the rights they already have - for example, they may eject a dangerous or disruptive dog even if the handler is legitimately disabled.


This is an excellent point. Here's an example from my work regarding durable medical equipment. My territory is largely rural, many are below the poverty level, and those that aren't are generally on a limited income (Social Security). My patient needs a walker, bedside commode, bed rail, or other piece of DME. Medicaid or Medicare will cover some or all of the cost. I get a script from the doctor. Then I have to find a DME provider that is in network for their insurance. The patient can't drive, and many of my patients are at least 50 miles from the nearest DME provider. So I have to hope I can find one that is both in network and delivers, and is close enough that they deliver for free - my patient can't afford a $50 delivery fee. Sometimes I can't find a provider that is in network, and will deliver without a fee. The patient also can't afford to just go to the pharmacy and buy what they need. In the past, some of our patients only got what they needed to safely care for themselves because the DME fairy dropped it off on their doorstep.

This happens to me pretty frequently. I had a very young patient who had a stroke and was unable to get in the shower without a transfer tub bench. We went through so much red tape and waited nearly 5 months to get that stupid thing. Five months. Imagine being young and unable to care for yourself or your children and being unable to get in the shower because you're waiting for a stupid plastic bench because the doctor's signature got partway cut off on a piece of paper or someone didn't remember to fax the right thing to the right place. More strict legislation does not benefit the disabled person. Yes, maybe it allows for abuse, but it also allows disabled people to have their needs met.


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## 67x (Jul 3, 2015)

Now that was some good feed back. I do not agree with everything and I sincerely apologize for any offense I have brought. I'm not going to lie, in my mind I figured half or better of all service dog people were in it for the attention. I'm probably wrong.

Recently a member here in the 'pretty face' thread took a high road and implied the breeders to many high end poodles are not worthy of producing her/him a service dog. Turns out they are. 

In addition, I did a little research today on a local level and my preliminary conclusion to all this is that people with service dogs need to police there own while they can because changes are on the horizon. 

This is all just my opinion and I'm nothing more that human #5,923,521,067 so take it for what its worth.


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## Camaro (Aug 29, 2016)

67x said:


> In addition, I did a little research today on a local level and my preliminary conclusion to all this is that people with service dogs need to police there own while they can because changes are on the horizon.


I am curious what changes you think are on the horizon.


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## kmart (Apr 28, 2015)

Whew, I didn't read through all these replies because I get a little riled up about this controversial topic and the things I read from King Louie were enough for me. But I have done A TON of research and talked to a lot of people who are local experts on the subject because I am planning on training my own service dog when I find the right one for me due to debilitating anxiety. 

1. is there accredited training for service dogs?
If you find a place claiming to be accredited, do some major research on what "institution" provides the "accreditation." You are probably walking into a scam. Lots of places like that where I live. 
2. what disabilities qualify one for a service dog?
Any and all that can be helped whatsoever by the performance of their service dog. 
3. are service dogs allowed to go everywhere with their owner? any exceptions?
Yes. No exceptions that I know of except in certain cases where the dog cannot physically fit or be comfortable. 
4. can strangers pet a service dog?
They won't be arrested if they do, unless the owner calls the police. Strangers are not allowed to, but they do anyway. 
5. can anyone say their dog is a service dog and get away with it?
Yes, if they can make up the answer to "what task does your dog perform as a service?" 
6. are service dogs allowed to be protective of their owner?
That depends on the establishment. The one exception to service dogs being allowed in public places is that they have to be under control and not "at large," and they have to be house trained. 

There are some things that are state-specific. For instance, any service dog "in training" is granted the same rights as a fully-functioning service dog. That is not the case in most states. 
Example: My sister has mobility problems. She can walk, but she has awful balance and weak trunk muscles. She would hugely benefit from a stability dog. She is small and short, so a smaller dog would work find for such a task. However, it would be obviously a service dog because of the handle. 

Another example: a diabetic alert dog could be small, I would think. Or a seizure dog. 

Finally, my take on the current "system:" This system has it's flaws. But I've never actually had an issue with the dogs people claim as "Service dogs" when they're obviously just trying to get around the rules. Those kinds of people are always going to be doing things that appall me and honestly I've never seen a "service" dog cause a problem in public. 
Any kind of service registry would likely start a rift between visible and invisible disabilities, or would simply certify any dog that had an application. It's not an easy solution and I think that the way things are now is about as good as can be expected. ALTHOUGH I will say that I think anyone other than the government attempting to "register" or "certify" service dogs should be fined.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

kmart, check out post #44 by spindledreams. i believe you'll find some clarification re permitted access and protection.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

The most valuable certification for my service dog was a prescription from my doctor. Yes, my service dog Honey was prescribed to me. I'll get another prescription for Noelle. 

I never had to show it to anyone, but Honey always had it in her little vest. A prescription and a CGC is a good place to start my new journey with Honey's successor, Noelle.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

67x said:


> I'm not going to lie, in my mind I figured half or better of all service dog people were in it for the attention.
> .


Most of the people I've met who do have service dogs have expressed feelings similar to those of Click-N-Treat and spindledreams - they dislike the attention that the service dog attracts. I've also met people who have chosen not to have a service dog because they are concerned that would draw attention to them and their disability. Most people who have disabilities just want to be treated like everyone else. For people who choose to have a service dog for a disability that is otherwise invisible (seizures, diabetes, psychiatric conditions, narcolepsy etc), the service dog actually makes their "invisible" disability "visible." Not everyone is comfortable with that, even if they could benefit from a service dog. 

Personally, I don't think the ADA is going to change significantly any time soon...the Department of Justice has expressed a commitment to making sure it stays as inclusive as possible.


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## sweetheartsrodeo (Sep 19, 2012)

I have skimmed the responses in this thread but ended up not reading a lot of them. I want to let you know a few things. Depending on the disability a self-trained dog can often alert better than one that is facility trained, it is a different bond. Secondly, a note from your doctor and a well made a small binder with vet information and doctor stuff will stop anything quickly. I have only had to use mine once, and that was when we went to a hotel, and the manager was being a jerk. She did not believe that there was anything wrong with me, and furthermore a poodle could not be a service dog. I plopped my binder down with his CGC certification, public access test certification, all our vet records, prescription from my doctor as well as my diagnosis and notes from my endocrinologist. However, It is something I carry in my truck, just in case. It is always better to be prepared. Also note, there are many people who do not know the law. I carry an ADA card, and if you PM me I will send you several of them so if someone does hassle you, it has the law printed on it. I do hope that this helps  
Mindy, Remington and Jackson


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

FireStorm said:


> Most of the people I've met who do have service dogs have expressed feelings similar to those of Click-N-Treat and spindledreams - they dislike the attention that the service dog attracts. I've also met people who have chosen not to have a service dog because they are concerned that would draw attention to them and their disability. Most people who have disabilities just want to be treated like everyone else. For people who choose to have a service dog for a disability that is otherwise invisible (seizures, diabetes, psychiatric conditions, narcolepsy etc), the service dog actually makes their "invisible" disability "visible." Not everyone is comfortable with that, even if they could benefit from a service dog.
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I don't think the ADA is going to change significantly any time soon...the Department of Justice has expressed a commitment to making sure it stays as inclusive as possible.



Very true. 
And to those who are worried about fakers, I say AS LONG AS THE DOG IS BEHAVING appropriately in public, don't worry, it isn't hurting anybody and it isn't your job to find the one in thousands that may be faking.
But if you see a dog that does not have appropriate public access skills, and you do not see the handler actively working to correct it, then by all means, call them out, educate the person's in charge as to their right to evict them if the dog is mis-behaving like that - in that case it doesn't matter if the dog is trained to mitigate a disability or not, they have no right to have an out of control dog in public!

And this goes for agency trained dogs too - I have a friend who had to return a dog to ECAD because it was almost completely unresponsive to commands, and Richard had to ask a blind customer not to bring her guide dog to the gym because it would flip out when it was separated from her by ten feet while she worked-out!


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

yep many of us who owner train (OT) use a CGC as a starting point. The new SPOT testing from the UKC could also work just as well or perhaps a bit better as there are components of both the CGC and the CGCA in it. 

Before anyone throws a fit these are STARTING POINTS. They are a simple and recognized way to say Hey Look my dog has these behaviors down. After housebreaking, and basic obedience comes task training. AND this is where the different types of service dogs really happens. 

If you think you may want a service dog do a LOT of research, you will notice that many of us who use them will talk about the circus act reaction, drive by petting, extremely nasty remarks either about the fact we have a dog with us OR because we refuse to allow them or their children to pet, feed, or play with our "medical equipment" A 5 minute trip without a dog becomes a 30 minute ordeal with one. I honestly think most pets in vests end up being left at home pretty quickly as the owners realize it is not as fun or easy as they think for service dog handlers.


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## 67x (Jul 3, 2015)

Camaro said:


> I am curious what changes you think are on the horizon.


'There are no requirements': Service dog misrepresentation a growing problem | Local News - WMTW Home

That is just a sample of what a local on topic search will produce. The first clicky option is always a 69$ service dog kit lol.

We live in an era of rules. I cannot go onto certain job sites without annual 'training'. The schooling is a joke and its painful to sit through. Its mandatory and people are making money off it. My point is that you, the service dog user/trainer are going to get your fair share of over regulation and people are going to profit. I believe the only reason it has not happened yet is on account of the word disability.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I hear you. There is nothing more irritating than having a real disability, and an actual trained service dog, dealing with a faker and their little monster in public. It confuses the working dog, and frustrates the handler. There's etiquette involved in having a service dog, and it takes time for the handler to learn, and for the dog to learn. 

I see the CGC as a starting point. I see this public access test as a starting point. Public Access Test for Minimum Service Dog Behavior 

My steps for training Noelle, my successor service dog are:
CGC first.
Public access manners test second.
Task training third.
Final public access test, which includes doing trained tasks (retrieves, etc).

Then, and only then, will I consider Noelle a service dog. Fakers are easy to spot, but difficult to stop. Anyone can slap a vest on Fluffy and say it's a service dog. But Fluffy growls at people. Fluffy barks in public. Fluffy wanders over and eats a child's ice cream cone. Then people look at me, thinking my dog is just like Fluffy, and treat me badly.

Honey retrieved a quarter dropped in a pile of French fries. That's an elite service dog task. Preventing dogs like Fluffy from screwing things up is a good idea. However, legislation to prevent owner trainers isn't the answer. What is the answer? Proof of disability from a doctor, proof of training submitted to the county, a special tag issued by the county, and a $5,000 fine for not having one? I'd be OK with that, believe it or not, because my service dog is, you know, actually trained to do work to help me.

I don't know what the answer to the faker problem is, I just know it's not cutting me off from the help only a dog can provide me.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

re "fakers" (I do prefer the term "pets in vests") MANY of the stories about how awful the problem is simply turn into a how to take your pet everywhere. One of the very best article out there I have seen this this one written by Marion Gwizdala who is the president of the National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU). 

This article needs MUCH better circulation. 

yes there are people who bring their pets in vests out and pretend they are service dogs. yes there are problems in some areas but the size of the problem varies WIDELY from area to area. For instance here when I see a team I can be pretty sure it is a real team with a well trained dog who can walk within inches of my dog with no more then a quite "leave it" or "watch me" from the handlers. On the other hand in more populated areas my friends can and have run into problems. Some of the worst offenders in one area are actually PROGRAM trained dogs and more then one handler I know turns and moves away as quickly as possible when they see one of those program vested dogs coming as they know they are as rule unruly, untrained, and often dog aggressive... which makes one wonder who the problem actually is.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

when talk turns to fakers and prevention, i find myself thinking of a story about israel's former prime minister golda meir. there was growing concern about women in public after dark being attacked. one proposal was a curfew: women should not be out after 10 p.m. meir said, no, that would be punishing the victim. imo that's the gold standard of the ada. no changes that will harm the people the law is meant to protect.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

spindledreams said:


> re "fakers" (I do prefer the term "pets in vests") MANY of the stories about how awful the problem is simply turn into a how to take your pet everywhere. One of the very best article out there I have seen this this one written by Marion Gwizdala who is the president of the National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU).
> 
> This article needs MUCH better circulation.
> 
> yes there are people who bring their pets in vests out and pretend they are service dogs. yes there are problems in some areas but the size of the problem varies WIDELY from area to area. For instance here when I see a team I can be pretty sure it is a real team with a well trained dog who can walk within inches of my dog with no more then a quite "leave it" or "watch me" from the handlers. On the other hand in more populated areas my friends can and have run into problems. Some of the worst offenders in one area are actually PROGRAM trained dogs and more then one handler I know turns and moves away as quickly as possible when they see one of those program vested dogs coming as they know they are as rule unruly, untrained, and often dog aggressive... which makes one wonder who the problem actually is.


Spindledreams, thank you for linking that here. It is highly informative; I've bookmarked it.


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