# Training for CGC



## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

How old is Kit now? Sometimes you just have to let a dog get through the teenage crazies before you can expect too much from them.

Cleo's my non-poodle mystery mix, and training her is vastly different from training Archie. She has a very different personality from his, though - she's very shy and reserved where he's extremely gregarious and friendly. But even aside from presenting different challenges, she just operates differently. She'll do anything for food, but she doesn't enjoy training for its own sake the way that Archie does. She also doesn't pick things up as quickly. For her, these are just hoops to jump through in order to get her treat, and if there's no treat at the end then what did you put her through that for?? Where for Archie, things get to a point where he's happy just to know he did what he was supposed to.

Some dogs' brains are just wired differently. Breed can have a lot to do with that, IME. Archie's got a poodle brain - it's designed to quickly learn and execute what his handler wants from him, and he's plainly driven to do that. Cleo just doesn't have that. She's much more independent. I don't have the same training goals for her as I do for him, and she seems fine with that, haha.

That said, is there anything that motivates Kit besides treats? Cleo learned to sit at doors without treats because getting the door open was enough reward for her. And her recall is strong mostly because she doesn't want to be left alone. So I was able to play to those to teach her those things.


----------



## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Kit sounds more like Archie. Shy is not in this dog's vocabulary. She loves training and enjoys the attention because she is an attention whore. She doesn't love toys as much as Lucky but it definitely excites her. The thing that motivates Kit the most is attention from strangers. Kit likes training because she sees it as an adventure and fun time. Lucky enjoys training because he wants to please me and was never really that food motivated. Lucky never really enjoyed training at strange places and enjoys routine whereas Kit is a dog that easily gets bored and needs constant stimulation. The problem is any stimulation just makes her nuttier. She also tend to do ok in very large crowds but it becomes an issue when one person or one dog gives her attention. Then she loses her marbles. I can't replicate it so sometimes it is hard to show our private trainer. She probably thinks she is super well behaved. I should probably start recording how uncontrollable she can sometimes get...particularly around certain people like my dad. If you didn't know her, you'd probably think her growling and barking and lunging behavior towards my dad is aggression but once he comes close to her she will sit there calmly to be petted.


----------



## galofpink (Mar 14, 2017)

I give you props for being able to get Lucky's CGC so young and for working so diligently with Kit on it. I can't even imagine being ready in a month or so to test Shae (almost 7 mos old now)! Every dog is different in their personalities and experiences, so I wouldn't be disappointed in Kit if she's just not quite ready yet and takes more time compared to superstar Lucky.

Not sure how much of it would be breed related vs temperament, but the fact that Kit is an LGD may have quite an influence. She's bred to be romping the fields protecting livestock - thinking independently and being constantly aware of and stimulated by her flock. Her strongwilled-ness, independence and need for stimulation is likely at least partially deep rooted in that. 

Shae is only my second dog, but she is soooo different from my first training wise and I've struggled with some confidence issues with her because of it. I feel like she's crazy a lot of the times; others (family/friends) don't seem to agree, so part of it may be me "over-reacting" or expecting too much, but she's definitely crazier than Rocky.

From the beginning, Rocky was laid back, confident, content, obedient, eager to please and he really loves training as a way to develop skills. Yes, Rocky loves treats and food, but you can also tell that he loves the shared experience and the bonding that takes place over exercises. So fading rewards was never a big deal. The only thing I ever had difficulty with was him jumping up; I never had a lot of visitors (I should have done more mock visits) so he was always super excited to see people.

Shae on the other hand is completely different; she sounds mostly like Kit. Smart as a whip, but extremely independent and essentially deaf to you if you don't have a reward that she deems valuable enough, especially if she has decided that she wants something or wants to do something on her own. I feel like it's going to be a long time before I can consider fading treats considerably. Rocky just obeys, she tries to buck the system every chance she gets. She is very affectionate and loves attention, so if she is calm enough and paying enough attention I will try to get her to do the very basic commands (sit or down) with a lot of affection. Usually it works, but I know what kind of state of mind it works in and only do it then. She also needs a lot of stimulation. Lots of games, thinking, training, physical exercise or she's a monster. She is just developing an off switch now, one that consists of maybe 15 mins laying on the floor.

She gets very over-stimulated very easily. I was able to go to a dog festival this weekend. We practiced sitting look at mes in different spots, but I made sure I had really high value treats to reward. She did well (I was astounded really) except for when a singular person would come over to pay attention to her. Enter basket case. 

When I'd go to training class everyone would put on these cute, excited, happy training voices. If I tried that with Shae, she would go nuts with excitement. While practicing and training at home, I've found that using hand signals and body language with very little vocalization has really pushed our training along. She is very motion sensitive and picks up on very minimal body movements, so she has picked up on hand signals quite well and I find it keeps her calmer and more tuned in. 

It's very interesting how dogs can be so different!


----------



## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

I wonder if you could have your trainer come with you on an outing, like to an outdoor mall or a pet store or something? Maybe then they can see what it looks like in real time.

It does sound like Kit and Archie are very similar. One thing that really helps with Archie is if I have a cooperative person to reinforce his greeting behaviors. If he knows the other person will only greet him if he keeps all four paws on the floor, he's a lot better about doing it. But if he gets a hint that they're OK with him jumping up, then forget it. Attention from a new stranger or friend is way more reinforcing than treats are, so there's not much I can do if the person really insists on paying him attention.

Honestly I've also just done a lot of waiting for him to mature. Archie was almost 2 when he passed his CGC, and that involved a lot of luck. He was really tired out going into the test, and it happened in the same room where all the training happened. The trainer was even present for the test. If he'd had to do it in a new environment with all new people, he would've failed instantly, but because of the familiar surroundings and the fact that he was too exhausted to be a wild-boy about it, he passed. Our evaluator also decided that whining during the separation was fine as long as the dog wasn't shaking, peeing, or otherwise showing serious signs of separation anxiety. So he passed despite his dramatic complaints.

Most of the work I've done with him in the last year has been just focus and attention work. At first it just seemed like nonsense but I can see how it's really paid off. A lot of it was stuff we don't use day-to-day (like long stays with distractions), but it's like it rewired his brain a little bit.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I meant to pop in here sooner, but got sidetracked.

One thing I would suggest is to take her for a good long walk the day of the test to take the bouncy edge off. Work in the place the test will be as much as you can so she is as familiar with the place as possible and try to make the conditions harder than they will be for the actual test.

The hardest things for Lily were supervised separation and greeting a friendly stranger, but when it came to it, she held herself together. She had just turned one when she passed her CGC. Peeves did the CGC at the same time, just before he turned one. Javelin was about 14 months old when we did his CGC and he did really well and even ended up being one of the group of neutral dogs for someone else doing a CGCA the same day.

Remember too that she is a baby dog and there will be plenty of other chances to pass if it doesn't happen this time. Lily will send you good luck vibes on September 5th which is a very auspicious day, her birthday.


----------



## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Noelle was just shy of two when she passed. Some of Kit's wild and crazy behavior is just puppies being young. Noelle was barely ready for her CGC at 20 months, mostly because she loves when people pet her. She was stellar with the sit for petting, but the grooming exam, look out. She was super duper happy dog, but still passed.

My suggestions if you want to do this at the end of class is wear Kit out. Devote test day to making her exhausted. Flirt pole, running, leaping, jumping, ball chasing, get rid of the excess energy. A tired dog is a good dog. Who knows, she might surprise you in a good way. Good luck.


----------



## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Haha thank you guys. Lucky is like an old man when he was a puppy and everyone said we just got Lucky with him. Kit is more like the norm. We might sign up for the Petco class with the trainer, who also trained Lucky's brother. She said that Lucky's brother/litermate Rex was insane like Kit. Rex jumped, lunged, and barked at people or dogs. She told me it wasn't me lol and some dogs are different even from the same litter. What is interesting is Kit picks up new tasks faster than Lucky but is not consistent and behaves like a nutter. I forget sometimes that she is still just a puppy and the still by far the youngest dog in the CGC class. 

My new signature photo was actually me taking all four dogs to get their canine flu vaccine. It was the first shot for Kit and Lucky and the second shot for the little guys. I had to wait on Kit because we just finished a month long antibiotic for her kidney infection. It was a mistake taking four dogs to the vet at a time. I could hold all three dogs with one hand and my husband had to wrestle with Kit with both arms because she keeps jumping on the new people coming in and out. She was the only one that was super thrilled to be there and she was jumping, barking, and embarrassing the crap out of my husband. It was pretty hilarious from my perspective because I sat away from them and it was like scene out of Beethoven or Marley and Me. Lucky was so good he was underneath my legs and waited quietly. The two little dudes were sitting on the chair and also being good. It looked like Kit is from another family lol.


----------



## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Haha, I loved your story about taking all 4 dogs into the vet at the same time. I've done nutty things like that too.

I wouldn't worry if Kit doesn't pass the first time because she is young. While I do think you should continue to work with her remember there is no deadline by which she must pass. Try to lift the stress off your shoulders by telling yourself it's okay if she fails. You can always take the class again, or you can work on your own and register just to take the exam at a later date. 

When I took the test, the trainer warned us that there will be 10 handlers with dogs that he didn't know who had signed up just for the exam in addition to the dogs in our class. I noticed that Babykins was the only dog in the group under 3 who passed, all the other dogs were older than 3. Two other dogs under 3 failed just from the excitement and novelty of the new dogs.


----------

