# If Loving you is wrong...I don't want to be right...



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Training is a good start  The adolescent months can be very challenging, but hang in there!


----------



## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Life with a puppy can be a three ring circus! Poodles are so smart. You are going to be happy that you signed him up early.


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

If the harness had become uncomfortable it would explain why he was not keen on having another one put on, especially by a stranger. It does sound as if just possibly Toby is getting a little too used to getting his own way though! I believe that it is extremely important for all young things to learn to cope with frustration - not through unkindness, but through learning that good things come to he/she who can wait with patience: You Can't Always Get What You Want | Dog Star Daily

A couple of kikopup videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2oeOUZ8kls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wesm2OpE_2c


----------



## Myleen (Apr 30, 2016)

fjm said:


> If the harness had become uncomfortable it would explain why he was not keen on having another one put on, especially by a stranger. It does sound as if just possibly Toby is getting a little too used to getting his own way though! I believe that it is extremely important for all young things to learn to cope with frustration - not through unkindness, but through learning that good things come to he/she who can wait with patience: You Can't Always Get What You Want | Dog Star Daily
> 
> A couple of kikopup videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2oeOUZ8kls
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wesm2OpE_2c


Thank you very much for the information! Much appreciated!

I keep telling myself...this too shall pass. 

Some times I feel overwhelmed. There is so to learn. I don't know what to concentrate on first. 

One step at a time.


----------



## Myleen (Apr 30, 2016)

From the Dog Star Daily...
_Gradual steps can be taken to teach dogs to accept things like brushing and nail-clipping._

I think this would be a very good thing for me to start with!
Toby lets me brush his back (just barely)

Please...suggestions on brushing/combing.

Would love to have this a nightly ritual!!


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

It sounds like you are letting Toby decide too many things for himself. None of us would let a two year old child decide most things for themselves would we? I agree with fjm that it actually is not a kindness to let a dog think it is in charge. A spoiled puppy may well turn into a dangerous unmanageable adult. Make sure that you do your homework for your training class in small sessions several times every day. He will learn better that way. IMO you should already have been teaching him all sorts of things like sit, down, stay, acceptance of grooming, leave it and come. A four month old should not be just barely allowing brushing of his back. He should allow a full groom calmly.

To help with getting him used to the grooming start doing a game we still do with all of our dogs every day. When any of them is relaxing on the sofa or bed with us and even when they are on their own beds we touch all of their feet, tail, boy bits and muzzle. We make it seem funny to them with words like "I caught your foot" or "show me your snarly teeth." If you do this without the grooming then Toby will learn that having all parts of him being touched (and I really mean hold onto his feet, tail, etc) is part of the routine of life. 

Love him yes, but be fair to him and give him an understanding that the people are in charge, not him and that you being in charge is about keeping him safe and healthy.

Good luck.


----------



## Myleen (Apr 30, 2016)

Thank you very much for replying to my post. I sit here with hopes people WILL reply to my plea.

I think I need to clarify something. We didn't realize we were spoiling Toby. Being a puppy...and because we need training as much as he does... our start was not the best.

You see, we signed him up for puppy classes _way long ago_...however we were told until he had all of his shots he needed to wait before interacting with the other dogs and so for the first two classes my husband and I went, without Toby. This was not easy...we did not understand some things but none the less we were determined ....

We have taught him, *sit*, *come*, ...we have always touched him all over. He has no problem with me touching his feet ever...or spreading his toes apart...we touch his ears, face, tail....all... every day.

We thought, yeah...we can take Toby to the classes starting next week...however after seeing the Vet for the first time...she said NO for another 2 weeks ...she gave him a shot (she felt one of his first shots would not be efficient due to mother's milk) ... so when we talked to the people at the training center...they felt we should wait until the *next* class started...gee, :sad:... that was/is not until July 11th!!!!  
I started to tear up, holding back the emotions inside. I so much wanted him to start classes...everything seemed to be going against us. 

Going to the pet store... the opportunity to join the class was given to us...of course we jumped on that wagon!!!
Truly I can't wait!!

We truly did not realize the mistakes we were making.

I have 9 weeks off from work right now (my husband is retired; i'll be retiring in 2 years) all of this time is devoted to Toby and learning to do the right thing. 

I thank you in advance for any and all suggestions. 

I will work on giving a full groom to a calm Toby.  I need to figure out how to get him to let me brush his legs and underside. 

Thank you again! :shakehands:


----------



## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

What helped me groom Dakota when he was a young puppy was to wait till 9:00 or 10:00 at night when he was tired. I would put him on the grooming table and brush him till he fell asleep. Then he was pretty much a rag doll. I would trim his nails and even shave his face while he practically slept through it.

Dakota's big problem is that he did not want to be held still at all, which made grooming diificult. So part of my training was just holding him still in a sit position and then releasing and treating.

I also used a grooming noose to help me groom him.

It takes time to teach a puppy to allow you to groom him. Practice when he is tired and reward him for good behavior.

By the way, I would not chase a puppy. Run from them to get him to chase you, or get a toy he likes and play with it till he comes over to see. I use a leash as a lure toy and if I want Dakota to come I swing it back and forth and he comes over to chase it. Then I leash him and continue playing.

Do not dispair. Only the first year is really hard.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

With a puppy nearly all mistakes can be fixed, so don't stress out. Your intentions clearly have all been good and it certainly can be difficult to make sense out of conflicting information, especially when all of it comes from "experts" like vets and trainers one is thinking of working with.

I am sure that in the next weeks you will see great progress just be patient, persistent and consistent. Help Toby to understand that you are the benevolent dictator and that he doesn't rule the roost and I am sure he will be an absolutely wonderful companion for your retirement life.


----------



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Raising a puppy looks easy but it is far from it. You need to do your homework and then apply the theory to a living creature who won't be exactlyas described in the books. That is quite a challenge ! But don't get discouraged, you are on the right track and you are quite motivated to succeed, so you will.

The fact that nobody told you about not leaving the harness on is simply because they never thought you would leave it on. This tells you that you need to ask a lot of questions because other people cannot know that you don't have this kind of basic knowledge. There is no shame in asking tons of questions.

I was a bit worried when I read about leaving the harness on your puppy. How long ws it for ? Days, weeks, 2 months ? You should examine his skin where the straps layed, just to make sure he doesn't have irritations. If he grew into the harness, this must have been really painful and the reason why he was so frantic about not having another one on. If you think he has skin rash, a good short clip (by a professional, because it might be painful) would help let the skin breathe and heal.

Also, for a toy or mini, harnesses are better because they have small tracheas and can choke easily just by pulling a little bit. You should wait until he has healed physically and psychologically and get him used to wearing a comfortable one, just just going on walks of course.

I wish you the best with your baby.


----------



## Summerhouse (Jun 12, 2015)

I think there are 2 things to keep in mind

1, They're called puppy classes but actually it isn't the puppy that is there to be taught, it's the owners. Make sure you practice everyday short sessions 5-10mins a few times a day in between classes. Don't just do the class and nothing again until the next class. 

2, The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask. Everyone here is happy to help no matter how silly you might think the question is. Nobody knows everything.


----------



## Myleen (Apr 30, 2016)

Mini Poo:
I have a grooming table coming today/tomorrow with noose (plus another noose) I will set up the table and get him acclimated to them.
I will also pick a night hour to accomplish!!!
This is great --Thank you very much. I now have a main short term goal that I know will be successful!  :marchmellow:

Do NOT :nono: _chase puppy_...got it!! 

_"Do not dispair. Only the first year is really hard. "_

Now THAT is good to hear!!!! :cheers2:	

Thank you kindly!!


----------



## Myleen (Apr 30, 2016)

lily cd re:
It is good to hear that mistakes with a puppy can be fixed!!

You are right...there is conflicting information everywhere!

Toby is the benevolent dictator and he doesn't rule the roost! :blowkiss: :flowers:

Thank you kindly!!


----------



## Myleen (Apr 30, 2016)

Dechi:
You are correct. Raising a puppy is far from easy.

I would say around May 5th is when we had the harness put on him.
The only saving grace is that is was a tad big to start with.

Yes,...we actually did just that!! We took him to a professional groomer and they cut his hair very short.
He does not seem to have any problems however he is also seeing the Vet tomorrow. 

Yes, the reason we got the harness to begin with was because we did not want him to choke on a collar. 

Yes, we will get a new harness. 

_Any suggestions as to a particular harness would be welcomed!_

Thank you kindly!!!!


----------



## Myleen (Apr 30, 2016)

Summerhouse:
_Make sure you practice everyday short sessions 5-10mins a few times a day in between classes_
Yes! most certainly!!!

Thank you kindly!


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Grooming - show him the brush, treat; touch with the brush, treat; repeat several times and end session. Then several touches and treats and one quick brushstroke, treat and end the session. Gradually build up to several brush strokes for each treat - probably across a dozen sessions, with a number of sessions every day, keeping each session short. Think of having him happy with a full groom - brushing, combing, bathing, drying, clipping, scissoring - as being at the top of a huge flight of stairs, and teach each tiny step along the way. Keep the steps small, and don't be discouraged if he gets bored or obstreporous sometimes.

I always try to remember that I am teaching a puppy all day every day - training classes can be great, but they are only one or two hours a week. You have obviously already done lots of work with him very successfully - just remember that he is learning through every game, every meal, every time he gets your attention, every time you ignore him, every treat, every fun thing he finds to do by himself. Remember that what is rewarded (whether deliberately or accidentally) will tend to get repeated; what does not work to get him what he wants will tend to fade; and don't forget to reward calmness and settling down, as well as more obvious behaviours!


----------



## Myleen (Apr 30, 2016)

fjm:
I like the visual of the huge flight of stairs; Love the detailed grooming sessions!!!
These sessions begin today... I am writing out a schedule of sessions (i am visual learner) 
If he acts up in any way I will not let his behavior deter me from accomplishing this goal! 

Eventually we will have good / calm / enjoyable grooming sessions every evening! 


"what is rewarded (whether deliberately or accidentally) will tend to get repeated"
reward calmness and settling down, as well as more obvious behaviours!

Thank you kindly!


----------



## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

A caution about using a grooming noose: you do not want your puppy jumping off the table with a grooming noose around hus neck. So block his jumping with your body and if possible put one hand somewhere on his body to keep him from blocking.

Also put the noose around one front leg and his neck.

When Dakota was young I often put a flexible very comfortable halter on him. With 2 others dogs, I needed to leash him a lot in the house because he picked on my older dogs. So he often wore a halter. I always took it off when crating him. So you are not the only person to leave a halter on their young dog.

Now Dakota gets a halter for walks and sits nicely for me to put it on.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Myleen said:


> lily cd re:
> It is good to hear that mistakes with a puppy can be fixed!!
> 
> You are right...there is conflicting information everywhere!
> ...


He can't be the dictator. You and your husband are the ones who need to be in charge of everything. Pick a set of strategies that are based on positive reinforcements with informative corrections. Don't allow bad behaviors become habits by allowing them to go uncorrected. It will be harder to extinguish undesired behaviors once they are habits and once Toby is older. Always end your multiple short training sessions on a success.


----------



## Myleen (Apr 30, 2016)

MiniPoo

Thank you. I will be careful with the grooming noose. The table came today. It is very strong and sturdy. I also have an extra noose to use. I will have to figure out how to use them. 
I wrote down the grooming suggestions from fjm and did 5 sessions today...I will continue with these sessions and eventually have Toby on the grooming table . 
Here are some pics of Toby that I took today:


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Very hard to resist that face, and there is a very definite twinkle of adorable mischief in those eyes! Everyone melts sometimes - I took Sophy to a puppy class run by an ex-military instructor, Margaret, who was extremely definite about not rewarding bad behaviour. Sophy was having fun, and for the first time ever refused to come during the off leash recall but bounced off to talk to the other pups and then to the instructor, where she sat and grinned, flicking her ears and tail, hoping for sausage. Margaret managed to keep a blank face for all of two seconds before melting, and had to be reminded that cuteness was not sufficient grounds for a treat!


----------



## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

One command that is invaluable when training a puppy is wait and leave it. Wait to get permission to exit through the door, to eat ect. It really helps them learn self control. Although many would disagree I prefer a snap collar on my toy instead of a harness and taught Swizzle to walk with a loose lead. I feel harnesses train a dog to pull and they are very irritating to the skin.


----------



## Myleen (Apr 30, 2016)

I have been trying to teach Toby "leave it" however with NO success.
I'm doing something wrong; however I do not know what	:questionmark:


Have not seen anything on "Wait" :confused3:

I did learn something today. Toby does *sit *very well ... In the kitchen that is!
Tried it outside on our morning walk ... it was very hard to get him to finally sit, he eventually did. :whoo:Worked on that 3 times on the way back home.


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Myleen said:


> I have been trying to teach Toby "leave it" however with NO success.
> 
> I'm doing something wrong; however I do not know what:questionmark:
> 
> ...



I think that a good, positive reinforcement based class will do wonders for you. I am very experienced at training puppies, but still I always take classes with a new one, because it is always helpful to have an outside eye to catch the little moments when you may be inadvertently confusing or misleading a puppy. But please remember that there are lots of bad training methods out there - make sure that the class that you signed up with utilizes lure/positive reinforcement, that evolves into hand signals only! I once signed Teaka up for a popular class without checking, and found their methods to be so horrible that we dropped out (after three classes, but I was kicking myself for not doing it sooner)!


----------



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

CT Girl said:


> One command that is invaluable when training a puppy is wait and leave it. Wait to get permission to exit through the door, to eat ect. It really helps them learn self control. Although many would disagree I prefer a snap collar on my toy instead of a harness and taught Swizzle to walk with a loose lead. I feel harnesses train a dog to pull and they are very irritating to the skin.


You won't have a problem with a collar until something bad happens. Like what happened to me last night with me two small dogs. My 6 pound toy had a 90 pounds lab mix come running to him, do fast I didn't have time to pick him up. With a collar, he would have choked himself trying to get away from the dog, but still on a leash. I couldn't let go of the leash or he might have been stepped on and kill. The harness protected him.

Meanwhile, my daughter was walking our Chihuahua back home and they ran into some kind of big dog, on a leash, across the street on the side walk. Our chihuahua is hysterical when meeting big dog, she goes for the kill. She was squirming and barking so much that she managed to get her head out of the collar and ran into the street. Fortunately, nothing bad happened, there was no car, and she got home safe, my daughter picked her up and walked with her on her arm. A harness would have prevented that. She has one but we couldn't find it and used a collar. Never again. We got her another harness today.

You can find very good harnesses that don't irritate the skin. Poodles have lots of hair, so it also protects then. Also a dog who pulls will pull no matter what. Collar or harness. I'd much rather have a tiny dog pull a little bit that get choked to death.


----------



## Myleen (Apr 30, 2016)

Toby had his Vet check :doctor: ... he weighed in at 7.5 lbs. 

Toby is doing great she says! He had a great time ... everyone loved him .....and boy did he soak up all that attention! :star: :star:

We told her about the harness; she said he is fine, give him a couple of weeks and then we could buy another harness or other type. 

She said he is teething and lost two teeth! 

He was quite energetic and happy... he saw where she put her treats and jumped towards the cabinet...then sat prettily with a look that said,_ "where is my treat for sitting prettily?"_ :laugh:

He is going to be very excited when he finds out that he gets to run around in the back yard now!!!! ... AND he is no longer limited on his walks!! He can now walk as far as WE walk! 

He is sleeping now. Can't wait til later when we get to see his reaction of being let out the back door with out a leash!!!


----------



## Myleen (Apr 30, 2016)

Dechi:
I am so sorry to hear about your experience last night!! How awful!!

I truly don't know what I would do if that happened to Toby. 

I feel very bad for your little ones.


----------



## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I treat for good behavior, and I have found I use to different tones to my voice when training. My deep voice is use for drop it, stay, No leave it, sit, back, NO jump, No down. I think the NO gets the attention quickly. I have only had 3 pups, the others have been 8 mo to 3 years, but only one of the teen or adult dogs was really trained, the other 3 were not.


----------

