# Correct number of dogs is n + 1?



## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

I can't answer to the crate. Frannie sleeps on the couch or a dedicated chair. Phoebe sleeps in the crate and will be getting her own dedicated bed soon.

Re: feeding
In the beginning, Frannie's food would go in it's usual spot, Phoebe's would go around the corner. I stood watch between them to make sure neither would steal from the other. Phoebe would steal from Fran, and at first, Fran was upset about the puppy, so she would just walk away without eating. Giving her "special" food and standing guard helped.
After everyone got settled in and accepted, Fran would steal Phoebe's food. I got tired of ushering her back to her own bowl, so I just switched her over to the same thing Phoebe was eating. Large breed puppy food is not very different from senior dog food. Since Fran is more active than she had been, any extra calories are being burned off. They now steal from each other, so I just make sure both dogs get plenty to eat and we're good.

Re: jealousy
This was a big prob for us. I have to give Frannie extra attention, at least equal treats, and she has special "jobs" that are hers and hers alone. She had her spot, which Phoebe was not allowed on, so if she wanted to escape from the puppy, she could. They now share or rotate, but Fran lets me know when she wants Phoebe out of her spot. She's nipped Phoebe once. And only once. It did not take much for the pecking order to be established. As long as Frannie sees that she's getting her "due" and not being forgotten, we don't have any further issues. 

I hope something in all that helps! 🙂


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

A second crate will give you much more flexibility. And since it may take a while for the older dog to warm up to a noisy nibbly puppy, he may need peace and quiet. (I did)


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## JasMom (7 mo ago)

I would not use your older dog's crate for the puppy. That is her personal space, even if she doesn't use it at all times, and to have a puppy take it over could cause some jealousy or even resource guarding. A second crate is ideal for many reasons.

As for feeding, I would start out using the puppy's crate or an x-pen for feeding times. The dogs can see each other but can't interact, steal from each other, etc.

Puppies obviously take extra time and attention which can be difficult. I used the pup's nap time as special time for the older dogs. I could give them a special treat, sit on the porch or couch with them, take them for a walk. All without the puppy. I do one on one training sessions with our puppy. I give the older dogs a chew during that time.

ETA: I also did not let Jasper harass the older dogs. He could try to initiate play but if he was pestering them or they did not respond to his invitation to play, I removed him. I also did not admonish the older dogs for gently telling the puppy he was over the line. 

Now, the boys sleep in a pile. They play together and even sometimes eat from the same bowl.


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## Sroodle8 (Dec 23, 2021)

JasMom said:


> I would not use your older dog's crate for the puppy. That is her personal space, even if she doesn't use it at all times, and to have a puppy take it over could cause some jealousy or even resource guarding.


Good point, JasMom. I was thinking it might work because we have watched a friend's beagle for a week or so and the dog takes nap in the crate. Scout never seems to mind. But it might be different with a pesky pup. The resource guarding is a concern; I'm not sure how she will react to someone else chewing on her toys.


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## JasMom (7 mo ago)

The toys part is easy, just get more toys! 😊


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Sroodle8 said:


> Crating.
> Current dog is 7.5 years old. She sleeps in her crate at night, but has the run of the house during the day. Can I just use the crate for the new pup (it has a divider to adjust size) and allow Scout to sleep where ever she likes? Or do you think I should get a 2nd crate? The current one is in a small room off the kitchen and there is no space for another crate in that room. If I get a pup and want to crate train during the day, will Scout be upset about the pup in the crate or vice versa?
> Feeding.
> How do you keep pig-dog from eating the newbie's food? Is it best to feed in separate rooms? Hand feed them?
> ...


Free for all… First are you sure your current dog would want another dog in the house? I knew my older minipoo would be excepting of a new puppy. She loved playing with other dogs and was great when dogs stayed at our house or we visited other dogs. She respected dog bowls, treats and toys. OTOH I have a friend who brough home a new puppy a few months ago and her older dog is still petrified of puppy to the point that the older dog had to be fed outside of the house for weeks and still refuses to be in the same area of the house. The two dogs have never actually been in the same room. Her older dog competes in dog sports and is well behaved around other dogs and my friend was shocked and regrets getting the puppy.

Crating.. get a new crate for puppy. Both dogs need their own special space. If they decide to share later on then it’s their choice. Ideally puppy should have a crate inside a play pen or gated enclosure.

Feeding… each dog should have clearly separate areas to eat. Puppy is best fed inside their play pen. Pig-dog wouldn’t have access to puppy food. I do hand feed a new puppy at the beginning, I use food for training treats as well as food in a bowl. Feeding from your hand and training helps develop a close bond between you and puppy.

Jealousy… both dogs need special alone time with you. Take your adult dog outside for potty at a different time you take the puppy out. Have training time for the adult with special treats. Puppies sleep a lot which gives you time for the older dog. Introduce puppy to your older dog away from your property then bring them home together. Do try to keep your older dog on the same regular schedule.

I tethered my puppy to me with a 6 foot leash for the first six months when he was not in his playpen. By six months he had earned some freedom in part of the house but when he became naughty he was tethered again. tethering allowed me freedom to do some work in the house knowing that the puppy was safe next to me. Tethering also allowed me to block puppy from unsafe activities and to watch the interaction between puppy and my older dog. My puppy doesn’t shred Kleenex, eat inappropriate items, steal socks or shoes or rummage through garbage cans. Because he was not allowed to do naughty behavior as a puppy and had plenty of appropriate toys to play with, he did not develop some unpleasant hobbies.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I would let your senior dog keep her crate. Be attentive to her need to get away from the puppy. Both Pogo and then adult Galen retreated to the safety of the couch when they had enough of being bothered by the tiny land shark. Pogo, who was normally very kind to puppies, growled at puppy Galen when he didn't want to be joined on the couch. Adult Galen became more possessive of things he hadn't previously cared about when I brought Ritter in. Toys he hadn't looked at in weeks got removed from the toy box and piled on the couch for safekeeping. 

Eventually Pogo and his littermate Snarky worked out their sharing issues by developing a preference for different toys. Pogo liked tennis balls and stuffed animals. Snarky liked bones. In the evening Pogo would lie on the couch contentedly squeaking a toy, while Snarky would lie on the floor contentedly chewing on a bone. Galen and Ritter have come to a similar arrangement. Galen prefers tennis balls, while Ritter prefers rope toys and stuffed animals.


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## Sroodle8 (Dec 23, 2021)

Skylar said:


> First are you sure your current dog would want another dog in the house?


Skylar, thanks for your insights. In answer to your question about whether current dog wants a puppy, well, how do I figure that out? She has a couple of dog friends that she loves to play with and does not display any issues when I pet her best friend. She seems attracted to the puppies that people bring to agility trials and/or to training sessions. Whines and wants to interact with them, no aggression noted. On the other hand, sometimes she gets chesty when we encounter a dog while walking. I haven't noted a pattern, big dog or small, male or female, and I never allow her to interact with random dogs. When we babysat the beagle for a week, she was excited at first and tried to engage the guest in play. The beagle never responded and this seemed to baffle my girl, but she accepted it.

Your other comments are helpful as well and pretty close to what I was thinking.


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## DogtorDoctor (Mar 20, 2020)

Just offering my "general second dog thoughts"! Some people always like multiple dogs, but as a first time "two dog household," I very much prefer to keep it at one (in hindsight).

I do not regret my second dog, Jango, at all. His personality is exactly what I was looking for. They downside is that he and my first dog, Cassius, do not play together (Cass tolerates Jango, but I wouldn't say that he likes him). Jango (1.5 years old) is much higher energy and higher drive. Cassius is 5.5 years, doesn't play as rough as he used to, and has some injury-induced arthritis that Jango sometimes triggers. Luckily, they coexist very nicely, but there is definitely some management on my end.

I did not get Jango "for" Cassius. I had hoped that they would play and be friends, but oh well. 🤷🏼‍♀️ After Cassius passes, I will not get another dog until Jango joins him.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Lots of good ideas and thoughts regarding adding a second dog so I won’t repeat. There is much to consider and definitely to learn if you have not lived with multiple dogs.Two dogs was new to us and we had a lot to learn. We added our second dog last year. I even started a thread on PF about having two dogs because we had never had two dogs before. 

My husband and I took a year to finally decide on our second dog. That was probably overkill but we wanted it to be the right time for us.😉We wanted a dog for us as I’ve always wanted 2 dogs but we also wanted a dog that was a good fit for Bobby our
Standard. While I knew there was a possibility they may not be friends I was really hoping they would as Bobby is a very friendly and playful dog. A good match really was the most important thing to us. And of course, we also needed a dog who was a good fit for us as an older couple and our lifestyle. We considered so many possibilities and looked at different breeds, breeders, rescues, and the Humane Society for a year. We asked ourselves so many times, puppy or adult? We went back and forth with our ideas, changed our minds multiple times, talked to people, and we always talked with each other about what we hoped our second dog would be. We also researched two dog households in general as we wanted to be as prepared as possible. While again, no guarantees, the research helped a lot.

We finally ended up choosing Joey, our mini poodle. He came to us as a puppy. Absolutely the best decision ever! We love having our poodle boys! We couldn’t have asked for a better fit as they immediately bonded. We were very blessed as this isn’t always the case as each dog is different, just like people. There is much to consider when choosing a second dog such as breed, personality type, play style, size, energy level, etc. I guess what I’m really trying to say is, when you do decide to get a second dog, do all you can to find a good match and prepare and learn as much as you can ahead of time. No guarantees but I think finding the best match you can and learning as much as you can will go a long way in helping the two dog adventure be a great adventure for humans and dogs alike.😊


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Sroodle8 said:


> Skylar, thanks for your insights. In answer to your question about whether current dog wants a puppy, well, how do I figure that out? She has a couple of dog friends that she loves to play with and does not display any issues when I pet her best friend. She seems attracted to the puppies that people bring to agility trials and/or to training sessions. Whines and wants to interact with them, no aggression noted. On the other hand, sometimes she gets chesty when we encounter a dog while walking. I haven't noted a pattern, big dog or small, male or female, and I never allow her to interact with random dogs. When we babysat the beagle for a week, she was excited at first and tried to engage the guest in play. The beagle never responded and this seemed to baffle my girl, but she accepted it.
> 
> Your other comments are helpful as well and pretty close to what I was thinking.


Thank you.

Based on your description it does sound like she would be accepting and perhaps enjoy a puppy. Tethering and a playpen will allow you to control their early interactions so they remain positive for both dogs.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Random thought. If you are the type of person that likes to "take your dog everywhere with you" concider how you would handle that with 2 dogs.


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## Sroodle8 (Dec 23, 2021)

DogtorDoctor said:


> Just offering my "general second dog thoughts"! Some people always like multiple dogs, but as a first time "two dog household," I very much prefer to keep it at one (in hindsight).


That's a good point DogtorDoctor. I thought about this a little more and, if it were not for one thing, I would stay with one dog at a time. But that tiny little thing...agility! I love it. And my dog loves me. And she loves jumping into the car with me when we go to a trial. And she loves spending time with me. But I don't think she particularly loves agility. We have fun, and I love her in the way we always love our first dog. I would like a dog with a bit of drive and speed in the ring. I would guess that Scout has maybe 2 more years of competition? Maybe 3? If I got a pup this summer, it would take me around a year for general training (sit stay come etc) and then maybe another year before competing (letting the growth plates close before jumping and weaving). And then there is the side issue of handler fitness--how many years can I run a dog, but let's not get into that right now!


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

@Sroodle8 Off topic, but I heartily agree with the title of this thread. The correct number of dogs is always "one more!"


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## DogtorDoctor (Mar 20, 2020)

Sroodle8 said:


> That's a good point DogtorDoctor. I thought about this a little more and, if it were not for one thing, I would stay with one dog at a time. But that tiny little thing...agility! I love it. And my dog loves me. And she loves jumping into the car with me when we go to a trial. And she loves spending time with me. But I don't think she particularly loves agility. We have fun, and I love her in the way we always love our first dog. I would like a dog with a bit of drive and speed in the ring. I would guess that Scout has maybe 2 more years of competition? Maybe 3? If I got a pup this summer, it would take me around a year for general training (sit stay come etc) and then maybe another year before competing (letting the growth plates close before jumping and weaving). And then there is the side issue of handler fitness--how many years can I run a dog, but let's not get into that right now!


That's actually very similar to the reason I got Jango, so I think that you sound very well equipped to welcome another dog into your house! Definitely listen to all the wise words about managing a puppy and an older dog, but I'm sure a new pup will enrich your life.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Sroodle8 said:


> That's a good point DogtorDoctor. I thought about this a little more and, if it were not for one thing, I would stay with one dog at a time. But that tiny little thing...agility! I love it. And my dog loves me. And she loves jumping into the car with me when we go to a trial. And she loves spending time with me. But I don't think she particularly loves agility. We have fun, and I love her in the way we always love our first dog. I would like a dog with a bit of drive and speed in the ring. I would guess that Scout has maybe 2 more years of competition? Maybe 3? If I got a pup this summer, it would take me around a year for general training (sit stay come etc) and then maybe another year before competing (letting the growth plates close before jumping and weaving). And then there is the side issue of handler fitness--how many years can I run a dog, but let's not get into that right now!


That’s basically why I got Theo. I had to retire Babykins from several sports although she still competes in Scentwork.

I looked for a minipoo with drive for dog sports. Getting the second dog was my choice. Like you I gave it a lot of thought and planning. I also knew if the dogs didn’t get along that I could safely keep them separated, but thankfully they love each other and want to be together.


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## Sroodle8 (Dec 23, 2021)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Random thought. If you are the type of person that likes to "take your dog everywhere with you" concider how you would handle that with 2 dogs.


Tom, that is a good random thought. I don't think I'd put myself in that category, so we should be good there.


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## Sroodle8 (Dec 23, 2021)

@Spottytoes I love the part where you describe how you went back and forth and talked to people and changed your mind and...wound up with the perfect match!


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Random thought. If you are the type of person that likes to "take your dog everywhere with you" concider how you would handle that with 2 dogs.


While is certainly is easier to take one dog while running errands, I have spent a lot of time training mine so I can take them together. I train for competition obedience where group stays and downs are important. Both mine will quickly sit or down while we are waiting in line. I keep the leash short so they walk politely in a store or with a grocery cart close to me. it does take commitment to train good behavior in a store as a pair as well as individually if that’s important to you.


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