# CALLING ALL standard "Red" know it alls



## OneillR (May 18, 2013)

Hello, i am new to this forum and joined specifically to ask some questions about a soon to be new addition to the family. I put a deposit down for a Red standard poodle pup in Florida (where i live) and was wanting to know some information as this is my first red standard poodle. I have had one Black and one Apricot before. 

I know all Reds fade with age, some more then others and that is is within their pedigree lineage that determines how "red" they will stay if im not mistaken.

My question to you all is to help me determine if i am:
A) Getting my money's worth

B) Getting a well bred Red standard puppy

C) and how much based of experience of you all will the pup fade with age. 
Here is the link from where i contacted and put a deposit down for the pup. 
Darlasredpoodles - About Us - Brooksville, FL
The puppy i paid for was bred frome Sire "Pepper" and Dam "Scarlett", i have looked through the pedigree and while most of the lineage was red, there were some apricot and cream thrown in the mix i saw. 
I am new to understanding and reading these pedigree lineages. 

If one of you kind knowledgeable friends on this forum were able to help me in whether or not i am getting a good healthy dog and the color is proper i would greatly appreciate you taking your time to help and educate me. 

I have put a $500 deposit down on the pup and will be paying a total amount of $1500. Thanks for taking the time to read this.


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

This "Red Know It All" thinks you would have been smarter to ask BEFORE spending your deposit money....

But, I what do I know! :aetsch:

To Answer Your Questions: 

Fading and Lines: All lines fade. Pups from repeat breedings will hold color differently from breeding to breeding. After years of breeding red to red to "fix" the color, red breeders still get the same results they always have. And they don't know how or why.

Your pup will be the color it will be, which will not be the color it is when you get it. 

Getting Your Money's Worth: It's a little late now for you to be asking that question! Hopefully you are getting your moneys worth. Hopefully the parents are health tested. Would be nice if they were titled. Would be even better if you are supporting a breeder involved in the breed. Involved would equal doing more than breeding dogs. Rescue - Therapy - Field Work - All Breed Club - Breed Specific Club - Conformation Been able to check off any of these yet? Fingers Crossed for you!


Well bred: On my web page there is an article I found. I copied it and reworked most of it. It's called "Just a Pet" It's a good read, if I did re-write a portion of it myself! :argh: If you did any research prior putting down your deposit, you will have read how some (more and more) of us believe strongly in titling our animals that we plan to use for our lines. PROVING that those animals SHOULD be bred - not that they can be bred (male cross eyed and pigeon toed + female roach backed and slab sided = BYB breeding pair) I did not go to the web page you linked to. It's not my place to critique their dogs. Odds are REALLY good neither you nor them would appreciate a critique of their reds. There are only 8 AKC CH Standard Red Poodles in the US. If that doesn't give you an idea of the quality (or lack thereof) then I certainly can't (and shouldn't) elaborate...

HOPEFULLY, your pup will be well socialized out of tested parents and your breeder will have put their heart and soul and considerable resources into the breeding. That would equal a well bred puppy.


Don't worry about the creme or apricot or black in the pedigree. That was for your breeder to worry about.

Good luck with your soon to be new pup.


One of the Resident Red Know It Alls
Tabatha
NOLA Standards


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

You already put a deposit down. Nobody here likes to rain on someone elses parade. You are excited about your new puppy and maybe having second thoughts? Is that why you are asking? Please share him or her with us when you get them! Because once they are home and in your hearts, not much else matters. 

If you aren't sure you want to hear, please read no further, but you did ask...

I did look at the website. They are posting health clearances, but only for two of the dogs. I hope you noticed one of those isn't registered with the AKC. It is registered Universal Kennel Club and CKC, or continental kennel club. You can register any dog with those registries.  If your new puppy is not AKC I would not pay $1500, but that is only me. The dogs in the pictures look like nice, well cared for pet dogs with typical pet conformational issues (lack of chest, roach backs, cowhocked). They won't be particularly athletic dogs, but maybe you don't care about that. I do wish they could have had someone proof their grammar and punctuation. 

I would ask:
Will my puppy be AKC registered?
Do you have the health testing for both the sire and dam? 
Do you have pictures of the sire and dam? (don't you want to know who the parents are and what they look like?)
Will my puppy come with a health check from a vet and a health guarantee?
Will they have their first vaccines and worm check? (some people do late vaccines and don't believe in early vaccination, though)
Will my puppy have a docked tail or/and dewclaws removed? (not an issue in a pet, but nice to know)

Once you get your puppy home and they are healthy and sweet, you will forget all about what they cost and it won't matter what they look like conformationally or what color they are. What will matter is health and personality. They may have great personalities and chances are he or she will be absolutely perfect in your eyes.


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## 2719 (Feb 8, 2011)

I am not a Red "Know it All". I am not a "Know it All" at all...just a dedicated poodle fancier. But I do not support Doodle Breeders, and hope others would not as well. A reputable poodle breeder is looking to better the breed by breeding. They would never, ever breed their Standard Poodles with other breeds. 

You have chosen to purchase your pup from someone who is not looking to enhance the Standard Poodle Breed so that others may still be enjoying healthy standard poodles in years to come. She choses to breed Poodles, Golden Doodles and Golden Retrievers. As her ad here confirms. Continental Kennel Club


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

ouch- she did not mention breeding doodles on her poodle website. If I had known that I would have said cut your losses and don't get a dog from her. Period. End of story. I guess I will say that now. Run for the hills.

You have to be particularly careful with red poodles because some people are jumping on the bandwagon of fad and trying to make a buck off of the color. In that breeders case she is trying to make a buck off of the red color and off of doodles, too. Her golden retriever looks like a poor representation of a golden retriever, too. 

Some breeders love the color and are trying to improve the breed- they are very careful and conscientious. I can assure you they won't be breeding doodles. There are a few red and apricot breeders on this group doing very good things for the breed. Look at their websites and you will see the difference.


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## Angl (Nov 9, 2012)

Max's breeder gives an 8 year guarantee for Addidon's and Sebaceous addinitis. 2 year guarantee for other health problems if it dies. However, Max had OCD in both front shoulders which have been surgically repaired. Without my asking, she is giving us pick of the litter for free just because our vet said it was genetic. She is going above and beyond the health guarantee. 
Both parents of Max are registered in the poodle health registry. No record of anything like this before.
Check the poodle health registry to see if her dogs are registered there. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

OH MAN! :afraid::banghead:


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I hate to say this but I think you might be better off forfeiting the deposit. You are going to have this dog for many years. So many issues can arise from poor breeding.


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## Qarza (Feb 23, 2013)

I feel so sad and so sick that this is happening in such a huge amount out there. Poor unsuspecting people are buying these pups truly believing they have the best of pedigree poodles, when all it is really is someone making a lot of money out of them and ripping them off.


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## OneillR (May 18, 2013)

Thank you all for you input and good advice. After long spent hours researching and talking with different breeders i have decided to cut my losses on this pup. Upon confronting her about breeding "Doodles" and Labs, she lied to me and said she does not breed those types of dogs and only breeds standards. She has told me the dam is AKC registered and the sire was not because he was "bred" out. However she assured me that the pup will come AKC registered. After recent insight i will look for a new pup elsewhere.
Special thanks to Tabitha from NOLA Standards for all the good information that she gave me earlier and steering me in the right direction! Hopefully i find my special friend to take home soon.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I am boiling mad on your behalf and also relieved that you made the difficult decision to cut your losses. I believe in the long run you have saved yourself a lot of heartache. I am so glad you are on the right track now.


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## Cailin77 (Jul 21, 2012)

I would see if there is some legal action you could take to get your money back. If you were told the puppy would be registered, but the father isn't then it could be considered fraud. Often, just the threat of legal action is enough to scare unscrupulous people into giving you the refund you deserve.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

OneillR said:


> i have decided to cut my losses on this pup....Hopefully i find my special friend to take home soon.


Good for you for thinking things through as you have. I'm sorry for what's transpired, but I believe you'll be well rewarded for stepping back and starting your poodle search anew. This site may help you as you go forward with your breeder search. Best of luck!:clover: 
Versatility In Poodles


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## Lene (Jan 18, 2013)

Cailin77 said:


> I would see if there is some legal action you could take to get your money back. If you were told the puppy would be registered, but the father isn't then it could be considered fraud. Often, just the threat of legal action is enough to scare unscrupulous people into giving you the refund you deserve.


I agree with Cailin77... but applaud you for giving up your deposit...

The price of a puppy is really the smallest expense in owning a dog...


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I don't care who you are, that is a lot of money to lose. You should attempt to get it back. If the sire is not registered AKC than the puppies can not be registered unless she lies to the AKC. I bet you would have never gotten AKC registration papers. You would have gotten CKC or Universal registration papers. She may be reasonable and give your money back to you. Please try and let us know.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I am sorry for your deposit & the not so truthful responses from this person. I am glad though that you stepped away from this person. Lying to you about "doodles" when you have proof that they are breeding them is just a huge red flag. They state they have been breeding reds for 30 years, I would expect them to have done something with their Poodles than just churning out pups. I hope you have gone to the OFA database to know what health testing should be done with Poodles. There are lots of great people here that can help you in your search.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I would think this would be an easy win in small claims court. I hope the breeder will be reasonable or that the threat of legal action will make her reasonable. Is it too late to issue a stop payment on the check?


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## OneillR (May 18, 2013)

Thank you all for your time and responses. I sent her the deposit through Paypal as payment for "goods". My plan is to dispute with her about sending my money back, if not most of it and if she is persistent in withholding my deposit then I will file a full claim with Paypal to get my money back. It could take up to thirty days but I am hopeful i can get my money back. Throughout the past days I have been referred to different good breeders from this forum. I have now since opened my options to several different colors including brown/black and apricot in hopes of finding a new puppy soon. I am patient and looking into everything this time around as well as getting second opinions. I will keep you all updated on what transpires from this.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Paypal might help you in your fight. Let them know the pup was misrepresented to you and see if they will help.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Check paypals time limit! She may drag things out to pass the time limit by giving you stories and putting you off. That happened to my daughter who bought a bassoon through paypal that never arrived. By the time she forced the issue with the seller the time limit had expired to file a claim with paypal (45 days). We called the police who investigated and told us the seller was listed in the US, but the business was actually in Canada! They used a US address to ship from. Canadian laws were different and there was nothing we could do from here. We were so angry that she had been dupped that we caled the Canadian police where they lived (the US police gave us the address), explained the whole situation and they went over to the house and scared the beegeebers out of them. She got her money back within a week (thank you canadian police- it was several thousand dollars from a young musician!). 

Sorry for the long story, but file your claim right away and don't let her string you out like we did


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I would not wait to lodge a complaint with PayPal. As Outwest has pointed out the clock is running. If she refunds your deposit you can always drop the complaint.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

paypal is most often on the side of the "buyer". i'd file a dispute asap. you can always drop the complaint.


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

OneillR said:


> I have now since opened my options to several different colors including brown/black and apricot in hopes of finding a new puppy soon.


Good for you! Too many people are focused on color when they should be more worried about getting a healthy puppy  I think you'll definitely get a puppy that will bring you many years of love and joy! Good luck in your search


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## pgr8dnlvr (Aug 7, 2011)

Wow! According to her ad which mentions Doodles, she's been breeding for 30 years and NEVER had a genetic issue! I think we need to give this woman a Nobel Prize in genetics, befriend her, and learn her secrets in eliminating genetic disease! We may not need genetic engineering or stem cell research after all, Praise the lord! Lol


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## MTWaggin (Nov 17, 2010)

Bless you for taking the advice of these folks and not "taking it personally". This is a great place to find out what to watch for and how to help get you the best companion you can possibly get!


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## OneillR (May 18, 2013)

Hello to you all, I have been quit busy these past weeks and decided to take some time to write you all an update on things. I have good news that I was able to get a refund back on $400 of my $500 deposit. I agreed with the breeder to part with $100 for her "troubles" but am rather happy the way things turned out. 
I also finally found my red boy to join the family on may 24th! I am very happy with Kerry from Regaliz Poodles and how welcoming, professional and smooth she handled every part of the process. He is a 4 month old male weighing in at 24.6 pounds and is everything I wanted and more. He has very good temperament and is a hasty learner! I fell in love with him the moment I saw him in the airport terminal. He is already reminding me of my old standards with some of his "poodle" tendencies. 
I wanted to thank you all for the information and support you were able to bestow upon me. I hope to continue posting in these forums and become part of the forum. I am glad everything worked out in my favor and could not be happier. I will post more pictures as he grows but this is from his first beach day!!


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## Dawnsohma (Jan 24, 2013)

what a lovely new baby! glad you at least got some of your money back.


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## Qarza (Feb 23, 2013)

Oh he looks simply luscious.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I love a happy ending. It is hard to tell someone to walk away from $500.00 and it is even harder to be prepared to do so. I do think you were very smart to walk away from the other breeder. Now you have a health tested lovely red boy who is properly socialized and he is adorable! Best of luck with your new baby.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Congrtaulations! So glad things worked out for you. Do you want to tell us your pretty red boy's name? Until you do, we'll just call him "*OneillR'*s love"! :love2: Enjoy him!


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

Congrats! I am so glad things worked. I do have to give kudos to the "breeder" that gave you back $400. There are plenty out there that wouldn't have given you a penny. Can't wait to hear more stories of your pup.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

HOORAY! Congrats on your pretty boy! Doncha just love our PF Family? They're the best poodle people in the universe!!!!!(I'm a little biased) But sooo glad you got educated on your choice of a well bred Spoo! Don't forget us now! post lots of pics!!!!


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## PoodlePowerBC (Feb 25, 2011)

Congrats!!! Love a happy ending!!!


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## OneillR (May 18, 2013)

Chagall's mom said:


> Congrtaulations! So glad things worked out for you. Do you want to tell us your pretty red boy's name? Until you do, we'll just call him "*OneillR'*s love"! :love2: Enjoy him!


After being nameless for almost two weeks, deciding what suited him best, i decided to name him "Lager" like the type of adult beverage. One of my interests is trying different craft beers from different brewers across the world and his color looked to be of an "Amber Lager" shade.


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## plr (Oct 20, 2012)

Congrats on Lager -- he is a pretty boy. I think you should start up a 52 week thread and give us lots of pictures of Lager as he grows. . .


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## Qarza (Feb 23, 2013)

I like that. I can't say I like Lager but I like the name.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

OneillR said:


> After being nameless for almost two weeks, deciding what suited him best, i decided to name him "Lager" like the type of adult beverage. One of my interests is trying different craft beers from different brewers across the world and his color looked to be of an "Amber Lager" shade.


Very clever!! I like it! Great way to combine your interests, too. (Bet your favorite Larger is now the one with four paws.) Have a ball with him!


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## OneillR (May 18, 2013)

Chagall's mom said:


> Very clever!! I like it! Great way to combine your interests, too. (Bet your favorite Larger is now the one with four paws.) Have a ball with him!


I am most definitely thinking of starting a 52 week thread! Thank you he most definitely is my favorite lager and will probably always be  I will try and get some more pics this weekend, im taking him on a day canoe trip.


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## spoo novice (Mar 22, 2013)

I googled darlasdoodlesandpoodles.com and got an ad from the Continental Kennel Club that had her ad for a golden retriever. It said Darla's Doodles and Poodles and was the same address. 
Perhaps you could have your attorney write her a letter threatening a lawsuit if you didn't get your money back. It might not work, but might be ethically worth it. Or, perhaps you could report her to the BBB for lying about the doodle issue. 
Or, maybe just chalk it up to experience...$500 over 12-15 years isn't much when you are selecting a new family member.


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## spoo novice (Mar 22, 2013)

pgr8dnlvr said:


> Wow! According to her ad which mentions Doodles, she's been breeding for 30 years and NEVER had a genetic issue! I think we need to give this woman a Nobel Prize in genetics, befriend her, and learn her secrets in eliminating genetic disease! We may not need genetic engineering or stem cell research after all, Praise the lord! Lol


LOL! So Funny!


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