# Question about “PopularPoodlesofLI” Breeder



## TK9NY (Jan 6, 2017)

If the website/facebook i found are the ones you're talking about, then you can do MUCH better and i would say hard pass on these "breeders" from me.

Their facebook/website only go back to Sept 2020, so it looks like they're very new and i'm not really liking what i see so far. There is a HUGE lack of actual information even though the website/facebook has been up since 2020. Nothing on the adult dogs at all aside from pictures and a generic statement of "great pets, good bloodlines". No mention of genetic testing (or results of), no mention of what these dogs have accomplished (title/show, work, obedience, therapy, etc).

Puppies sold can be bred, as early as "second heat or 18 months". No mention of how they determine which puppies can be sold on full registration for breeding purposes. No requirement the puppies have testing done prior to breeding. Males/females are priced differently, and further priced differently for full/limited registration.

Their genetic guarantee has me a bit worried, too. Two years is bare minimum, IMO. They also only cover hip dysplasia and "life threatening genetic defects." And there is a TON of wiggle room in that they state "excessive jumping" can "cause hip dysplasia" and "SELLER reserves the rights to have a second veterinarian of her choice evaluate the dog's condition before the warranty will be honored". They could potentially have a vet they know well state that "the dog jumped too much as a puppy and caused it - not genetics" and void the guarantee. Also, many genetic conditions are not life threatening but are debilitating and costly to manage. 

So, in short, not enough info and too many red flags for me - i would dismiss them entirely. I didn't even look at the testimonials page - it's not hard to add those yourself and if they've really only been breeding since 2020 (i could be wrong but again, everything seems to start Sept 2020) then the pups from any initial litters wouldn't even be two years old yet.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Does AKC mean a quality dog

I have no information on the breeder but you should read the link I put above to help put things into perspective


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I live on Long Island and have never met nor even heard of them.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Since I replied above I also looked on FB and in addition to all of the concerning issues I saw that were noted by TK9NY I also saw various puppy personality descriptions that included hyper, shy and other sort of extremes of the spectrum of temperament traits that can be problematic. Shy is not something any puppy of any breed should be. Hyper is also really a challenge unless you know how to handle it. Many people would describe each of my poodles as hyper. I think of them more as high drive and I chose them for those traits because they are both dogs that work with me as performance sport dogs. Lily is 13 and just last night worked as the neutral dog for CGC preparation in a relatively big mixed group of green to experienced dogs. We all went out this morning to train (Lily for rally and Javelin for obedience). Even though Lily worked pretty hard last night she was very up for going out this morning. Javelin went out to train each morning since Thursday even though he just had fairly significant dental work on Wednesday.

And one other thing I noticed is different prices for bitches vs. dogs and open vs. limited registrations.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

twyla said:


> Does AKC mean a quality dog
> 
> I have no information on the breeder but you should read the link I put above to help put things into perspective


The fact that a dog is AKC registered is absolutely not a guarantee of quality. The very first thing to look for is whether or not both parents have complete genetic testing. If not, don't waste your time and certainly do not waste your money!


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Hi and Welcome,

I would not consider that breeder for myself if I were looking.

In case selecting a quality, conscientious breeder is new to you, or it's been some years, adding to the good info above, here's some more tips.

*We often hear from folks that they just want a pet.* What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that the kind of quality, conscientious breeders many of us prefer to support are _always_ breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions, but are flawless to us .

*It's not unusual to think that there are possibly thousands of breeders to choose from*. For quality, conscientious breeders, that number is more likely only in the hundreds in the US or Canada. A bottom line difference is between those who're breeding primarily for profit and those who're breeding because they feel not only love for poodles but an obligation to the entire breed. Each of their, usually infrequent, breedings are thoughtfully chosen to try to improve something in their lines and consequently the future of the breed.

*About reviews,* a happy owner doesn't necessarily mean an informed owner. It's as likely they've just been lucky, so far. Review any negative comments carefully, if they're allowed to appear.

*Getting a puppy from a quality, conscientious breeder is something like insurance*. Their investment in the health, welfare, and soundness of all the dogs in their care including the puppies they offer to new homes is part of the reason you're not likely to find a less than $2000 USD puppy from them.

The saying is "pay the breeder or pay the vet". Price alone isn't the only thing to separate quality breeders from those less than. We've seen members quote as high, and even much higher pricing for pups from parents not health tested, not proven to meet breed standards, sold as purebred when only a DNA test could determine that since they may be sold without registration papers.

If I knew the risks and have dedicated poodle health savings of several thousand dollars or pet insurance, knew that basically that the breeder and I would part ways as soon as the pup was in my hands because they're very unlikely to stand behind their pup and me thru the pups life, I might proceed with a breeder that doesn't meet my criteria.

But

I also wouldn't pay quality breeder prices, and over, unless I'm getting all the quality breeder perks.


*Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder.* The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

*Look for and verify OFA/CHIC level testing at a minimum.*
There are also poodle specific DNA panels for other testable genetic conditions. Those are companion tests with the OFA/CHIC testing, not in place of.
CHIC Program | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)
Browse By Breed | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)


*A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much to back it if *the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

*Read thru any contracts that may be listed. *If they rule out coverage for conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?

*Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times* and with pandemic puppy seekers, that wait is stretched well into 2021-2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs, 9-5 paying job, and family, rather than keep a website updated.

*When you start making contacts, *let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.

*Color preferences are understandable but* keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies.
That beautiful color you fell for may not look the same in a few weeks, or months, or years. Most poodle colors fade.

*Gender preferences* will also limit your options.

*Temperament and personality* are lifelong traits.

*Be prepared to spend *in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

*Be prepared to travel *outside your preferred area.

*As a very general rule, websites to be leery of* are those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience".

Be wary of a breeder who sells a puppy with full registration rights (breeding rights which allow pups to be registered with the AKC) simply for the price of admission. A responsible breeder will not allow their reputation and their poodles to be bred by anyone, to any dog, without having a contractual say in the breeding and the pups. They will want to be involved. 

One additional caution, be very wary of those very cute short legged poodles. That's a genetic mutation which may carry serious life-altering disease.

*An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. *An online search for "Poodle Club of *___* (your city or state/province)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.
PCA National Breeder Referral - The Poodle Club of America
Search for Local Clubs/Breeders - The Poodle Club of America

*As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, this is my shortlist criteria.*

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come.
Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is _well bred._


*Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time *

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards physically and temperamentally, and are sound by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them


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