# Sebaceous Adenitis



## tktorrance (Mar 21, 2017)

Hello.

I wanted to learn more about this Disease SA.

I am Japanese Akita breeder and SA is becoming more problem with our breed. 

I found out that this is also going on with Standard poodle and see if I can get advise from expert breeders in this forum.

i do have 1 fixed male that has SA as well. and I have 2 intact females for showing and breeding. all imported from japan except one female that I kept from my last litter. 

i bred my female when she was around 4 and male was from my friend and he was around 2 and half. 

My best pup from litter is now 1 and did great at showrings, very good example of breed. We have very small gene pool in USA due to breed is not in AKC. only UKC.

I just found out last week that sire of this pup has SA. and one of his pup from other litter(not mine) has SA.

Is it too risky to breed my puppy? since sire has SA? or is it ok to breed around this problem? like wait till 3 years old and make sure all of my pup from this litter are ok? and breed? 

I do not want to take too much risk but it is very hard to have good quality Japanese akita. 

Please let me know your advise.

thanks

TK


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

tktorrance said:


> Hello.
> 
> I wanted to learn more about this Disease SA.
> 
> ...


Do you have any mentors in your breed who might be able to help you weigh the pros and the cons? My understanding is that the genetic diversity situation in Akitas is likely to be similar in some ways to that in poodles, so you might want to consider VGL testing to help you decide. Are you familiar with that at all?


----------



## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

Did you see my response to your intro post?


----------



## tktorrance (Mar 21, 2017)

Verve said:


> Did you see my response to your intro post?


I just did.^^ 

and I do have test for my pup as well. we did run the test for some dogs that has SA and pups from that sire just found out who has SA.

What I want to know is if anyone has bred dog who doesn't have SA but from SA sire or Dam. and I wanted to see how all the pups came out. and had any issue.

i'm not expert of this testing although I'm trying my best. I do have mentor for this breed but like I said, it's very small here in USA and we only have around 10 breeders in club. 

we have different opinion. some says breed around it. some says not breed at all if line has SA dogs. But with specific color of breed I prefer to breed, most of dogs has atleast 1 dog who has SA.


----------



## tktorrance (Mar 21, 2017)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Do you have any mentors in your breed who might be able to help you weigh the pros and the cons? My understanding is that the genetic diversity situation in Akitas is likely to be similar in some ways to that in poodles, so you might want to consider VGL testing to help you decide. Are you familiar with that at all?


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

tktorrance said:


> I just did.^^
> 
> and I do have test for my pup as well. we did run the test for some dogs that has SA and pups from that sire just found out who has SA.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if anyone will be able to tell you if they've bred a dog with SA or if they would admit it if they had. It's inherited, and no specific genes have been found yet, so breeding a dog who has a parent with SA (which is the same as breeding a dog with SA, since the parent was bred and has SA) obviously comes with a greater risk of producing SA. Whether or not it might be able to be done carefully is sort of beyond the scope of my knowledge, and something you'd want to maybe refer to VGL data on. In poodles, certain haplotypes and OI indicate risk or protection. I don't know what that data is for your breed.


----------



## tktorrance (Mar 21, 2017)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I'm not sure if anyone will be able to tell you if they've bred a dog with SA or if they would admit it if they had. It's inherited, and no specific genes have been found yet, so breeding a dog who has a parent with SA (which is the same as breeding a dog with SA, since the parent was bred and has SA) obviously comes with a greater risk of producing SA. Whether or not it might be able to be done carefully is sort of beyond the scope of my knowledge, and something you'd want to maybe refer to VGL data on. In poodles, certain haplotypes and OI indicate risk or protection. I don't know what that data is for your breed.


Thank you very much. I know they won't breed dog with SA. but sometimes They get it after sudden age. And already produced puppy. We tested out dogs. with hips, Eyes, etc and there was no problem with stud dog. it just came too late and now I already have pups from him. i was just trying to see if anyone had same experience and what they did with their pups, and see if all the pups were ok from SA. I kinda feel like both of parents has to be carrier in order to pass SA to their pups. but no one actually knows.


----------



## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Sebaceous adenitis in the Akita: clinical observations, histopathology and heredity - Reichler - 2001 - Veterinary Dermatology - Wiley Online Library

Surely this has been studied in Japan, too. You could contact their embassy for some leads or resources. Your Akita is very beautiful, btw.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

tktorrance said:


> Thank you very much. I know they won't breed dog with SA. but sometimes They get it after sudden age. And already produced puppy. We tested out dogs. with hips, Eyes, etc and there was no problem with stud dog. it just came too late and now I already have pups from him. i was just trying to see if anyone had same experience and what they did with their pups, and see if all the pups were ok from SA. I kinda feel like both of parents has to be carrier in order to pass SA to their pups. but no one actually knows.


While no genes were found in the poodle study, the most current theory that I am aware of is that it definitely involves multiple genes and most likely has a recessive component as well. So if a parent has SA, you know for sure that some of those genes are there. I don't think you can know whether or not breeding this dog will produce it in that generation.


----------



## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Here's a link to a recent study on SA in standard poodles.

https://cgejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40575-015-0026-5

One of the authors of the above study is Natalie Tessier, a poodle breeder. She says this on her web site:

-----------
Recently, thorough studies show that what causes this autoimmune disease in which the sebaceous glands are destroyed remains unclear. The researchers write that "there is no evidence for a single mutation causing the disease" and that in their most current research, "the data further strengthen our belief that SA is a more complex condition with perhaps several genes involved." 
------------

So this is more complex than a simple single gene inheritance where both parents have to be carriers. I am certainly not an expert, but I would be quite uncomfortable with breeding a dog whose parent had SA. But I don't know your breed or what options are available to you. Good to hear that you are taking this so seriously.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Adding to my posts above that per Natalie, a study should be coming out soon for the akitas. So I would just hang on tight.


----------



## tktorrance (Mar 21, 2017)

Mfmst said:


> Sebaceous adenitis in the Akita: clinical observations, histopathology and heredity - Reichler - 2001 - Veterinary Dermatology - Wiley Online Library
> 
> Surely this has been studied in Japan, too. You could contact their embassy for some leads or resources. Your Akita is very beautiful, btw.



Thank you so much!


----------



## tktorrance (Mar 21, 2017)

peppersb said:


> Here's a link to a recent study on SA in standard poodles.
> 
> https://cgejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40575-015-0026-5
> 
> ...


Thank you!!!


----------



## tktorrance (Mar 21, 2017)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Adding to my posts above that per Natalie, a study should be coming out soon for the akitas. So I would just hang on tight.



Great!

Thank you.


----------

