# Jeesh - potty training is hard



## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

Oh, and I stop all water at 9pm and we go to bed about 10:30 and the funny thing is - he doesn't pee in the house at night. His crate is open but he sleeps in it or anywhere within the gated room we're in. I sleep on the couch, have for years so he has access to the living room and kitchen - no hiding places in either - and no accidents.

So he holds it from 8am to 4pm and from about 11pm to 5am - but that 5 hours in between he can have 0 - 5+ accidents.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

If you search the forum there are many posts on potty training. Were he mine, anytime he is in the house out of his crate or pen, I would have him tethered to me, NO EXCEPTIONS. If you have to take your eyes off of him for even a minute he must be put in the crate.

Also make sure he knows the command to go.

You really are doing a good job! The key is to give him every opportunity for success and eliminate the chance of failure. Keep at it, you will get there!


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

geri de, i reread your other thread and i am wondering... i note you said you give your dog the treat when you go outside, but it sounds as though it's before he has actually urinated. i'm wondering if changing the order of giving the treat - as in, after he has urinated outside, not before - would help. at the same time, if he does go inside, i think i would consider putting him in a time-out (for about a minute) in his crate and out of sight from everyone else. it may be a matter of helping him to make the connection that the reward is for urinating outside and doing so inside is an unwelcome behavior.


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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

I give him a reward for following the command "Let's go peeee" (to learn that cue) when he sits at the door at the command and exits on his leash without pulling and tugging then when he's done peeing he gets a more excited reward/treat for peeing. It's gotten to the point with "Let's go peeee" that he goes and waits and the reward is less treat and more "good boy".

Tethering him to me just seems so restrictive and he's always at my side wherever I am. Rarely is he more than 6-8 feet away from me. Jeesh, he's always under my feet. It's odd though, he and I were playing on the floor last night and as he brought the toy to me he suddenly stopped and peeeed - I sternly said NO he cut the pee, I put him outside, he finished. Sigh


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

GeriDe said:


> I give him a reward for following the command "Let's go peeee" (to learn that cue) when he sits at the door at the command and exits on his leash without pulling and tugging then when he's done peeing he gets a more excited reward/treat for peeing. It's gotten to the point with "Let's go peeee" that he goes and waits and the reward is less treat and more "good boy".
> 
> Tethering him to me just seems so restrictive and he's always at my side wherever I am. Rarely is he more than 6-8 feet away from me. Jeesh, he's always under my feet. It's odd though, he and I were playing on the floor last night and *as he brought the toy to me he suddenly stopped and peeeed* - I sternly said NO he cut the pee, I put him outside, he finished. Sigh


Ha, he must be related to Penny. She still gives no warning and she's 5 months old. We haven't had any accidents for about two weeks though mostly because we're on a schedule of going out every 2 1/2 hours and she's older now and can hold longer.

Rick


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

I would try waiting to reward until he actually pees... Outside. I think it is the next step in the process you have already started. He'll make the connection from waiting at the door to peeing. It might help to make the treat high value at this point!

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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

My 4.5 month old puppy has only ever had a couple of accidents. I take her out to potty immediately upon leaving her crate, immediately after eating, and every couple hours when she is out of her crate.

I don't even reward - I just open the door, stand there and watch while she walks out, potties, and walks back to the door to come back inside.  Getting to come back inside must be rewarding in itself. 

Lula is never tethered to me, but then again she tethers herself to me with an invisible leash!

Edit: this is how you teach them to potty immediately upon going outside - walk outside with pup on leash. If pup doesn't potty within, say 5 minutes, bring pup inside and crate for a little bit before trying again. After they potty successfully, you reward them in some way - even playtime will do and then they focus less on the treat.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

GeriDe said:


> *I give him a reward for following the command "Let's go peeee" (to learn that cue) when he sits at the door at the command *and exits on his leash without pulling and tugging then when he's done peeing he gets a more excited reward/treat for peeing. It's gotten to the point with "Let's go peeee" that he goes and waits and the reward is less treat and more "good boy".
> 
> *Tethering him to me just seems so restrictive and he's always at my side wherever I am. Rarely is he more than 6-8 feet away from me. Jeesh, he's always under my feet.* It's odd though, he and I were playing on the floor last night and as he brought the toy to me he suddenly stopped and peeeed - I sternly said NO he cut the pee, I put him outside, he finished. Sigh


I would drop that reward since it isn't really helping to teach potty outside. Like CharismaticMillie I never rewarded peeing and pooing on orders with anything other than big praise. 

Keeping him that close will help his bond to you. If he is peeing in the house he hasn't earned the freedom to be anywhere other than right next to you or in his crate.


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## Tiffany (Feb 13, 2014)

GeriDe said:


> I give him a reward for following the command "Let's go peeee" (to learn that cue) when he sits at the door at the command and exits on his leash without pulling and tugging then when he's done peeing he gets a more excited reward/treat for peeing. It's gotten to the point with "Let's go peeee" that he goes and waits and the reward is less treat and more "good boy".
> 
> Tethering him to me just seems so restrictive and he's always at my side wherever I am. Rarely is he more than 6-8 feet away from me. Jeesh, he's always under my feet. It's odd though, he and I were playing on the floor last night and as he brought the toy to me he suddenly stopped and peeeed - I sternly said NO he cut the pee, I put him outside, he finished. Sigh



I think what N2mischief means is something that I found on the internet as puppy umbilical cord training. The tether isn't just there to make sure you puppy isn't getting in to anything he shouldn't but it will prevent accidents in the house. That's what I did and it worked for me. The point is you want to be on your A game as if potty training is the NBA playoffs and the puppy is the ball. It only takes 2 seconds of eye aversion and the other team gets a dunk on you aka your puppy has an accident. If you keep your dog on a short leash I would say a 4 foot leash (what many refer to as a training leash) or shorter distance depending on how good he is with accidents in the house because puppies go away for you to go potty. I would say 5-8 feet is the perfect distance for an accident where was 1 or 2 he wouldn't be so apt to pee on his humans feet. Puppies just won't do it, because your puppy would be on the leash he would be tugging and pulling to get away from you thusly he probably needs to go out.

I read on the forum somewhere if you catch your puppy having an accident get some rolled up newspaper and hit yourself for not watching the puppy. And honestly it couldn't be more true about 99% Of the time my puppy had an accident I stopped looking for maybe 2 seconds the other 1% mid play he would just stop and start peeing like you mentioned.

I know you mentioned the leash sounds restrictive but with potty training unfortunately as much as it hurts that's how you want to be.

Think of your house as like one HUGE crate! Okay if you get too big of a crate he'll pee in the back and sleep in the front. Well that's a big nono the crate is for sleeping just like the house is for dwelling. You give him to much space he will do exactly that with your house. You want to let him run free it needs to be around where he doesn't have accidents which would more than likely be around where he sleeps at night I believe it was your room and expand that space as he grows. Every accident is a step back towards your house breaking goal. I've seen videos where people have held the puppies the whole time and had given the puppy no free time except outside and boom back in the crate it sounds harsh but I can guarantee you that the man in the video wasn't having accidents in the house . He basically made it impossible to happen and that's what you want to do as long as it's possible it's GOING to happen. If you don't want your puppy on a leash or in the crate for most of the day I would look into more creative methods at this point. 

I highly recommend puppy umbilical cord training though just because it's easier. IMO
I



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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Tiffany said:


> I read on the forum somewhere if you catch your puppy having an accident get some rolled up newspaper and hit yourself for not watching the puppy. And honestly it couldn't be more true about 99% Of the time my puppy had an accident I stopped looking for maybe 2 seconds the other 1% mid play he would just stop and start peeing like you mentioned.
> 
> I know you mentioned the leash sounds restrictive but with potty training unfortunately as much as it hurts that's how you want to be.
> 
> ...


Well said, Tiffany. The responsibility is ours and the failures are from little mistakes we make. GeriD, I am not trying to suggest you are doing things wrong. You just need to be consistent and tough about this now for the benefit of the long lifetime you want to enjoy with a housebroken dog. Don't feel sorry about it. Look at it as an investment for the long term.


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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

I HAD A BRAINSTORM

It occurred to me that I take him out - he pees immediately and I bring him in. THAT DIDN'T MEAN he emptied on that first pee. So now, I take him out - he pees immediately and we walk 10-15 minutes and he pees 1-2 more times, then we do a little loose leash play training and end it with a final 5 minute walk and he pees again.

Let's see how this works - he was dry after last night's one oops


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Consistency, consistency, consistency....discipline, discipline, discipline....

But seriously, I am glad you have hit on something that helps you.


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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

GeriDe said:


> I HAD A BRAINSTORM
> 
> It occurred to me that I take him out - he pees immediately and I bring him in. THAT DIDN'T MEAN he emptied on that first pee. So now, I take him out - he pees immediately and we walk 10-15 minutes and he pees 1-2 more times, then we do a little loose leash play training and end it with a final 5 minute walk and he pees again.
> 
> Let's see how this works - he was dry after last night's one oops


32 hours and the only weeee in the house was when I feel asleep and he did it on a puppy pad!


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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

56 hours, no mess in the house!


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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

72 hours and no mess in the house


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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

He went days without a mess - then last night - I was distracted cooking when my phone alarm rang - I thought I'd get to him in 5 minutes. When I turned around 5 minutes later he was sitting at the door. I thought "oh boy, he's letting me know he needs to go" then saw the puddle.

I just leashed him and took him out and he emptied a couple more times then came in and cleaned it up. "oh boy, he let me know he already did the deed" LOL

BUT he went FOUR DAYS without an accident of mine


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

Tethering to me in the house was the BEST ever method to potty train. Having Jack tethered to me meant that I had to keep my eyes on him a lot. I caught him peeing inside twice, corrected him for it, took him outside to finish and praise him like crazy. I then let him have just ONE room after he was very reliable on the tether. Then two rooms, then... the dogs only get the main floor, which is the kitchen/mud room, dining room, den and living room, they don't get the up or downstairs (carpet). 

It's a pain to be fumbling with a leash for a couple months but it works out really well. Jack is now very reliable indoors, even intact!


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

Four days is pretty good and all it takes is one "I'll take you out in a few minutes" and boom, there it is. Penny's gone several weeks now with no accidents. Still taking her out an a fairly regular basis. But I think she's making progress. Sometimes when we go out she only makes it a couple of steps in the yard and has a looooong pee. Which tells me she knows to go pee outside and is holding it until her next walk but she still doesn't alert me in anyway. She's just happily playing with me or her toys or just laying around. at least now she's waiting to go outside. 

Rick


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## Beaches (Jan 25, 2014)

Yeah.


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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

*Anti-tetherer here*



Shamrockmommy said:


> Tethering to me in the house was the BEST ever method to potty train.


I'm glad that works for you and I've heard much praise and also displeasure regarding it - I will not tether him. Dogs are trained every day and very well without being tied to their owner. I, personally, don't like the idea.


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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

PoodleRick said:


> Four days is pretty good and all it takes is one "I'll take you out in a few minutes" and boom, there it is. Penny's gone several weeks now with no accidents. Still taking her out an a fairly regular basis. But I think she's making progress. Sometimes when we go out she only makes it a couple of steps in the yard and has a looooong pee. Which tells me she knows to go pee outside and is holding it until her next walk but she still doesn't alert me in anyway. She's just happily playing with me or her toys or just laying around. at least now she's waiting to go outside. :amen:
> 
> Rick


I'm noticing, when the alarm on the phone rings, Khaos heads to the door. I've also noticed a few times, when we're playing in the house or laying around - he goes near the door and I let him out and he does his thing. I'm thinking of trying bells but need to research it more. He definitely CAN hold it - he does for 4-5 hours in his crate and for 2-2.5 between phone alarms and another 4-5 at night when I sleep (I don't crate him, we sleep in the living room, fighting for sofa space LOL).

Patience and persistence and consistency - it'll happen.


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

GeriDe said:


> I'm glad that works for you and I've heard much praise and also displeasure regarding it - I will not tether him. Dogs are trained every day and very well without being tied to their owner. I, personally, don't like the idea.


Okie dokie!


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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

*Anti-tethering*

Thanks for sharing though - others may love it


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

PoodleRick said:


> Ha, he must be related to Penny. She still gives no warning and she's 5 months old. We haven't had any accidents for about two weeks though mostly because we're on a schedule of going out every 2 1/2 hours and she's older now and can hold longer.
> 
> Rick


I know, quoting myself is weird but, good news: Either Penny is now signaling or I'm just now getting it. Three times now in the last few days I've seen Penny go to the door then turn back and look at me. Well more like stare at me so I let her out and she peed immediately. Hoping this is a pattern and not just an odd occurrence. WooHoo!!!

Rick


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Even if it was sort of a coincidence that she went to the door and looked at you, you have now made an association between standing near the door looking for attention and a let out opportunity. Keep watching and even if the signal didn't mean much to Penny the first couple of times it will gain meaning. That's great news.


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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

Hmmmm are setbacks normal at 5-6 months? He's teething, uncomfortable, his leg his hurting (that medical issue) and last night, we were playing and he was on the sofa attacking the cat who in turn was attacking him (a normal nightly routine) and while he was playing he suddenly peeeeeeeed. 

He also just got over a tummy ache yesterday - didn't eat or drink all day until evening so he consumed mass amounts of water. He peeeeeeeed and suddenly looked at me as if to say "Oh Fu........" stopped mid-stream and ran to the door.


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

I think even at 5 or 6 months old a lot of playing can make them forget they really have to pee until it's too late. But at least he stopped and ran to the door so that sounds to me like he know he's supposed to go outside and this really was an accident.

Rick


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I think you are on the right course but just need to tweak it a bit. Instead of saying "No!" when he starts to pee, just scream as loud as you can, or yell some noise very, very loudly. Basically scare him just a little showing that unpleasant things happen when he goes in the house. Then take him outside to finish as you had done. Then jackpot reward.

If you go outside to play and he doesn't pee, and you think it is time, don't let him walk around free inside. Either he goes in the crate and you take him back outside in 10-15 minutes, or you teather him to you so you can grab him easily and take him outside to finish (after you have roared your displeasure at his going inside). Teathering is not evil, and it is only temporary.

I agree that you need to give him zero chances of going inside. Setting a timer is also a good idea.

Putting him a crate all day from 8 to 4 seems excessive. It would be nice if you could come home for lunch or have a friend or dog walker help you out. It would give you more opportunities to take him outside during the day to do his business.

PS - Just saw your anti-teathering comment. We all have things we don't like to do with our dogs that others think are great. I personally would never crate my dog from 8a to 4 pm but that's just me. Leashing my dog to me as I walk around the kitchen fixing dinner sounds less restrictive to me than that.


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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

MiniPoo

Trust me, my "no" strikes fear into all creatures big and small - I've been an educator for 30 years. It's loud and it gets his attention. I only say "no" firmly and it gets his attention

Yep, if I take him out and he doesn't pee or poo in 5 minutes we go back inside for 15 then start again. He gets to play AFTER doing his business, usually - sometimes I get distracted though./COLOR]

I started Pavlov's classical conditioning with his potty training about a month or so ago - I set my phone for every 2 hours and his ringer is barking dogs - he's up to every 4 hours now. He hears those dogs bark, he perks up and he's ready to go outside

He is not in his crate from 8-4. I do come home daily for lunch and spend 45 minutes with him walking him, playing with him ALL after he's done his business. He loves his crate and goes in on the verbal cue "mommy's going to work now" with no problem.

COLOR="blue"]some people have no choice regarding crates, they have to work, and once he's out of puppy stage and safe outside the crate when I'm not home, he won't be crated. I've started keeping him uncrated when I do short 1-2 hour errand runs. He can't learn how to stay outside the crate unless he's given the chance and I know that.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

GeriDe, I misunderstood you before. It sounded like you crated him all day without a noon break. That was my only objection. I am a big believer that crates are the safest place for dogs when you are working. I just try not to crate my dogs longer than around 4 hours, less if they are young.

Good luck with your house training. Sounds like you know what you are doing.


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