# Acapella standard poodles. Reputable?



## poodleloverrr (Apr 9, 2021)

Another breeder! Tell me if this one is reputable please! It would mean a lot. The name is acappelastandardpoodles.com 2 females left. Ready in May.

[_Removed details of negotiations to respect breeder’s privacy - PTP]_


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

With the best of intentions, I'm copying my criteria list again here below.

I completely understand reaching out to get input but the likelihood of any given member having personal experience with any breeder mentioned is really pretty low. This is partly why and is a very rough calculation:

PF is listed as having over 20,000 members. That's really misleading.
First, that number is since PF started in 2007. Many members join just to ask a question or a few and then stop participating, or they're here for the lifetime of their poodle and then stop participating.
Of the regularly participating members, which rotate as the membership ebbs and flows, at any given period of time, I'd generally guess around 200-250 members regularly participate.

I'm still searching for how many poodle breeders there are in the US, whether top of the line or bottom of the barrel.
The ASPCA estimates around 2000 federally licensed (larger scale, for profit style) breeders. There would easily be at least that number or more of breeders operating under that radar, and to pick a number let's say half that , around 1000 poodle breeders who are or are trying to be what I think of as quality breeders.

This is all really just guesstimating but if you have around 250 active members and around 1000 quality breeders and both of those populations change thru time, it's not really odd that a breeder may not be mentioned by more than a few people more than a few times thru a few years.


Have you used the checklist to review the site yourself? That's how I decide whether I want to learn more about a breeder, to contact them and ask what else I want to know. This isn't that I or others don't want to answer or help, we will, but you'll be able to help yourself by learning what's important to you and find breeders that meet your criteria.



Breeding Program
! to maintain, improve, strengthen the breed
by breeding to standard, for health and genetic diversity,
and will prove their dogs meet these standards by showing or competing in other activities or by breeding from titled parents.
It's not the title, but what it shows
! focus is on quality, never quantity
! they do not cross breed
! they limit breeding to one to two breeds
! they limit breeding to only a few litters per year *

Breeding Parents
! registry information available
AKC Registry Lookup
Dog Search
! not too old or young for breeding
! not overbred
see Asking questions from a breeder
and Frequency of Breeding a Bitch
! genetic health testing done appropriate to breed and variety
! other health testing by exam such as annual eye, hips, patellas
! results of testing on own website, OFA site or testing lab
see Health Related Publications - Versatility In Poodles, Inc.
and OFA Lookup Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO

Living Conditions
! in home with family
! breeder allows, even encourages home visits

Puppies
! routine and urgent vet care, immunizations, dewormings
! socialization
! first groomings
! registry papers
! they will not require spay/neuter before physical maturity
! health "guarantee" generally favors the breeder, not the buyer.
health guarantee is no replacement for health testing of dam and sire.
does the contract/guarantee/warranty rule out covering conditions the parents should have been tested for
do you fully understand the terms of any contract/guarantee/warranty and can you live with them
beginning housetraining is a bonus
temperament testing is helpful

Advertising
! individual website to detail history of breeder, goals for their program
! information on dams, sires, puppies
! no trend pricing for color, gender or size,
! no marketing gimmick terms like "teacup" "royal"

! Anything not found on a public online site should be provided by breeder before buying.

* Many people prefer small scale breeders because they feel the puppies will have better socialization and it's very unlikely to be a puppy mill-like operation.
This doesn't mean that larger scale breeders can't do things right.
The breeder of record may not be hands on with every pup or poodle on the place but they should make sure that all the quality of life and attention are paid to all their dogs.

If a breeder wants me to believe that they believe in their dogs, they won't stop the investment when it comes time to find the new families. If they want to cut costs by using free advertising sites like craigslist or listing on retail marketplaces like puppyspot or puppyfind, or other classified ad sites such as newspapers, I wonder what else they've cut costs on.

You'll find the health testing info in the Breeder List

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Acappella

_Breeding program_
Our Breeding Program (acappelastandardpoodles.com)
Breeding Healthier Dogs (acappelastandardpoodles.com)

_Breeding Parents and Health Testing_
White Standard Poodles (acappelastandardpoodles.com)





White Standard Poodles


Standard Poodle conformation photos,show photos



www.acappelastandardpoodles.com




Advanced Search | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)


and so on. I go thru the website and find as much information (not marketing) that addresses my criteria and confirm what I can.

Acappela is doing health testing. They're looking at diversity. Their poodles seem to live a full home life. They participate in AKC and UKC activities with their poodles. They talk about diet and other care given to the dams, socializing and grooming of the puppies.

There is proof of the health testing but I don't know if every one of their breeding dogs is tested (and pass) to the OFA/Chic standards. In fact, I can't prove anything until I personally go there and see for myself.

BUT I see enough promising information that I'd consider them for myself and would follow up by asking them directly, visiting if that's possible, to see for myself, what I can't tell just from an online site.

If I'd consider following up on them for myself then I'm comfortable suggesting them to you or anyone else.

What I see suggests that they're quality, conscientious breeders and worth following up with.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

+1^^
Short of another member working with this specific breeder, only you can determine this. You must do your homework.


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## poodleloverrr (Apr 9, 2021)

Yes I am doing my homework 100% I just like to get a second opinion to make sure I’m doing things right.


94Magna_Tom said:


> +1^^
> Short of another member working with this specific breeder, only you can determine this. You must do your homework.





94Magna_Tom said:


> +1^^
> Short of another member working with this specific breeder, only you can determine this. You must do your homework.


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## poodleloverrr (Apr 9, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> With the best of intentions, I'm copying my criteria list again here below.
> 
> I completely understand reaching out to get input but the likelihood of any given member having personal experience with any breeder mentioned is really pretty low. This is partly why and is a very rough calculation:
> 
> ...


Ok thank you


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## Darling Darla (Sep 20, 2020)

I don’t think anyone on this site is going to do the investigation/searching for you. Go with your gut feeling and find out all the information that you can.


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## poodleloverrr (Apr 9, 2021)

Darling Darla said:


> I don’t think anyone on this site is going to do the investigation/searching for you. Go with your gut feeling and find out all the information that you can.


Ok! I don’t want anyone to do that for me, I just wanted to know if people know anything about the breeder to see if she’s good or not etc. But ok ty!!


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## Darling Darla (Sep 20, 2020)

poodleloverrr said:


> Ok! I don’t want anyone to do that for me, I just wanted to know if people know anything about the breeder to see if she’s good or not etc. But ok ty!!


I understand. Although this search is something that you will have to do. I hope you find your puppy soon. 👏
I know a lady in Florida who has a litter of Standard poodle puppies. If interested contact me privately.


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## poodleloverrr (Apr 9, 2021)

Ok! I’ll dm you


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I think it might be helpful if you would describe here what your criteria are for a reputable breeder so we have a better idea of what's important to you.


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

Darling Darla said:


> I don’t think anyone on this site is going to do the investigation/searching for you. Go with your gut feeling and find out all the information that you can.


Not true. When asked, a variety of members routinely read through sites to assess a breeder's program and dogs. Members have checked on OFA, DNA lab reports, pedigrees, and contracts. 




Darling Darla said:


> I know a lady in Florida who has a litter of Standard poodle puppies. If interested contact me privately.


Darla, I'm speaking as a Super Moderator in this next part. You're on slippery ground here. PF Forum Rule #5 states:

_PF is not a broker for the direct selling of puppies, dogs, live animals, stud services or to facilitate breedings. All such threads and posts that attempt to do this will be deleted. _

I can't tell if you're brokering a sale for "a lady in Florida" or recommending a breeder friend whom you know to have a litter.

And why the secrecy? Is there something about this lady's breeding program that more knowledgeable PF members would find cringe worthy?

Or is your announcement on this thread a _covert invitation_ to others to contact you directly if they want a puppy, and how do you benefit from this?

I really don't understand why you didn't simply PM her with your recommendation instead of making a big deal of it here.



Darling Darla said:


> Go with your gut feeling and find out all the information that you can.


So wrapped up secrecy, Poodleloverrr who is a newbie, might now be reluctant to publicly ask about this breeder, leaving her with only your advice to go on instead of benefiting from additional input from others, or as you said, to _"find out all the information that you can."_ 

Speaking of advice, advice from multiple people _can be_ confusing and not all of it will be accurate. A deal breaker for one member may not be a big deal for another and I respect that. For Poodleloverrr, this brings me to Rose's comment:



Rose n Poos said:


> I think it might be helpful if you would describe here what your criteria are for a reputable breeder so we have a better idea of what's important to you.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Vita said:


> Not true. When asked, a variety of members routinely read through sites to assess a breeder's program and dogs. Members have checked on OFA, DNA lab reports, pedigrees, and contracts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well said. I am a member that regularly will investigate the online footprint of breeders when I have the time. I have not replied to this thread simply because I'm very busy right now. My investigation always mirrors the checklist outlined by Rose n Poos, though I am accepting that issues for me may not be issues for somebody else.

We are extremely supportive of new members reaching out to find out about what makes breeders reputable and how to find the breeder best suited to them. We also will attempt to steer people toward breeders that are breeding ethically and doing so to better the breed gene pool because that is what is best for the breed we love. I believe transparency is extremely important.

I would always advise a member to do their own research as well, but I remember being new myself and I did not understand how to access information the way I do now.

@poodleloverrr please be aware that different members on these forums may have very different backgrounds and views. It is up to you to decide whose advice is most applicable to your situation. You may find you disagree with what some members advise, but what's important is understanding why you disagree or agree.


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## Darling Darla (Sep 20, 2020)

Vita said:


> Not true. When asked, a variety of members routinely read through sites to assess a breeder's program and dogs. Members have checked on OFA, DNA lab reports, pedigrees, and contracts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No. I’m not a broker. I apologize for mentioning my friend that has puppies. Delete my reply.


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## Darling Darla (Sep 20, 2020)

Also I would never try to promote my puppies on this poodle forum. Some how my trying to help got misconstrued as malicious intent.


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

There is a Facebook Group called Uncensored Opinion of Poodle Breeders (OFFICIAL), you may find some people on there who have had interactions with this specific breeder since people go on there to discuss breeders and breeder criteria specifically.


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## poodleloverrr (Apr 9, 2021)

Vita said:


> Not true. When asked, a variety of members routinely read through sites to assess a breeder's program and dogs. Members have checked on OFA, DNA lab reports, pedigrees, and contracts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Vita said:


> Not true. When asked, a variety of members routinely read through sites to assess a breeder's program and dogs. Members have checked on OFA, DNA lab reports, pedigrees, and contracts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi there. What I would like is for people to help me dig deeper into something I may know about the breeder because it might be sunshine and rainbows in the front but in the back there’s something else. I just want to make sure I’m getting a healthy puppy. That is the most important thing for me . And I’m sorry I didn’t know we couldn’t do that.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

poodleloverrr said:


> Hi there. What I would like is for people to help me dig deeper into something I may know about the breeder because it might be sunshine and rainbows in the front but in the back there’s something else. I just want to make sure I’m getting a healthy puppy. That is the most important thing for me . And I’m sorry I didn’t know we couldn’t do that.


No, you are perfectly fine posting such queries. Ideally it is our hope to teach you how to research breeders yourself because it is always best to understand these things yourself. That is why I try to itemize my points in detail. Finding a breeder is a difficult process. If I have time I offer my thoughts. Poodle Forum has always been a place where members help newbies to screen breeders.


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## poodleloverrr (Apr 9, 2021)

Raindrops said:


> Well said. I am a member that regularly will investigate the online footprint of breeders when I have the time. I have not replied to this thread simply because I'm very busy right now. My investigation always mirrors the checklist outlined by Rose n Poos, though I am accepting that issues for me may not be issues for somebody else.
> 
> We are extremely supportive of new members reaching out to find out about what makes breeders reputable and how to find the breeder best suited to them. We also will attempt to steer people toward breeders that are breeding ethically and doing so to better the breed gene pool because that is what is best for the breed we love. I believe transparency is extremely important.
> 
> ...


Ok thank you! I of course do my own research on the breeder but I like having second opinions because it makes me feel more secure with the puppy I’m getting


Raindrops said:


> No, you are perfectly fine posting such queries. Ideally it is our hope to teach you how to research breeders yourself because it is always best to understand these things yourself. That is why I try to itemize my points in detail. Finding a breeder is a difficult process. If I have time I offer my thoughts. Poodle Forum has always been a place where members help newbies to screen breeders. Thank you


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## poodleloverrr (Apr 9, 2021)

poodleloverrr said:


> Ok thank you! I of course do my own research on the breeder but I like having second opinions because it makes me feel more secure with the puppy I’m getting


Oop that was weird I didn’t write that.


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## poodleloverrr (Apr 9, 2021)

AliFenrisMom said:


> There is a Facebook Group called Uncensored Opinion of Poodle Breeders (OFFICIAL), you may find some people on there who have had interactions with this specific breeder since people go on there to discuss breeders and breeder criteria specifically.


Ok thanks!


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Without asking for you to identify which concerns you have belong to which breeder, I'm falling back to asking what your own criteria are for a reputable breeder and, when you're asking for a second opinion, what sorts of things cause you to question? (Our turn to learn from you )

I'm sure you don't want to slant responses by leaving your request wide open, but we will be able to understand what concerns you have better if you can give some detail.


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## poodleloverrr (Apr 9, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> Without asking for you to identify which concerns you have belong to which breeder, I'm falling back to asking what your own criteria are for a reputable breeder and, when you're asking for a second opinion, what sorts of things cause you to question? (Our turn to learn from you )
> 
> I'm sure you don't want to slant responses by leaving your request wide open, but we will be able to understand what concerns you have better if you can give some detail.


Ok so, basically. The most that worries about me about breeders are the parents, fake AKC, OFA, registrations, fake health certificates and too many promises that are too good to fulfill. My criteria is to meet and make sure the breeder is not a liar etc.


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## Bigbark (Jan 9, 2021)

Sorry I don't have the time right now to help you with the research, but I think its really great that you want to throughly research a breeder before buying a puppy. If you work through the list of criteria and run if you see any red flags, you should be ok. I only considered breeders who were actively showing their dogs and breeding titled dogs. I also looked at OFA for a strong testing program. There is so much ugliness in the breeding world, and it's clear that you are trying to avoid that. Poodleloverr, I tip my hat to you for trying to find an ethical breeder. Be patient and do your research. Wishes to you for good luck in your search!


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

poodleloverrr said:


> Ok so, basically. The most that worries about me about breeders are the parents, fake AKC, OFA, registrations, fake health certificates and too many promises that are too good to fulfill. My criteria is to meet and make sure the breeder is not a liar etc.


Thanks, That makes some of this easier to vet.

Yes, AKC registrations have been faked at times. Reminder here that all the AKC/UKC registration means is the the dog is purebred.

Usually faked registrations would be from a breeder of questionable standards BUT a breeder of questionable standards is unlikely to be doing any provable health testing. This is why I start with health testing as a sign of quality. It doesn't stand alone, is an investment on the part of the breeder and suggests that if they do this, they will do more to breed quality dogs.

I don't know what fake reg's cost but test results listed on the OFA site indicate that the breeder
a/ paid the proper tester to do the test and paid for the test and
b/ paid again to get results listed if not automatically listed by testing thru OFA.

If you find the info on the OFA site it will be legit. If you find results on the PawPrint site it will be legit. If you find published info on the testing lab site, it will be legit.

You need the kennel name to do a global search of their dogs, or the breed registry name or breed registry number of the individual poodle to do the direct search.

In Acappela's case, as an example
a/ they have results and links on their site
b/ they have registry names on their site

You can go to Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org) to enter the individual name or number, or do as I also did and enter the kennel name to get a global search (filter for poodle in Advanced).

Once you get results on OFA , for example, you can search back thru the pedigree if you like. That's another sign of legitimacy. A scammer is really unlikely to fake test generations of dogs, and those results involve other kennels lines so, faking would be pretty difficult, probably cause for legal action from the other kennels, and not worth a scammers time.



Rose n Poos said:


> For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.


Scammers will usually do the least amount of work and spend the least amount of money to run their scam.

It is important to meet in person, to see the dogs in their home environment, what that environment is like but covid has put a wrench in that. Meeting the parents is a bit trickier with the pandemic but many breeders are still finding ways to do in person visits, video visits, photos, and such.The dam must be with the puppies unless she has died. It's not all that common for sires to be on site. To keep their lines healthy and diverse, to breed to improve features or structure, breeders will use dogs from other kennels. Looking thru the pedigree results on OFA will show that.

If by fake health certificates you mean on the puppies from the vet, that's a bit tougher to verify. Puppies should be seen by a vet several times before they're allowed to go to their new homes for dewormings, vaccinations, and general look-see's with possible treatment for other illnesses. I don't know how to prove those are legit except in context.
If you find proof of sire and dam testing on OFA, probably other health records will be legit. If you establish a pattern of provable care and concern with health and welfare, it'd be far more odd for a breeder to invest in only one side of the equation.

For your concerns on promises too good to be true, examples there will help too.


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

Darling Darla said:


> Some how my trying to help got misconstrued as malicious intent.


No, not malicious, I just wondered about motivation as stated earlier, and my role as Super Moderator is to protect members, so I had be sure and ask. You're good.




Darling Darla said:


> I would never try to promote my puppies on this poodle forum.


Darla, well actually, you can. PF members can have one thread in this forum to promote their litters. See our Forum Rule 5.4 thru 5.6:

_5.4 Established and participating members who are poodle breeders may post ONE self-promotional thread in the *Finding the Right Puppy & Breeder - Directory of Poodle Breeders,* which you may update at any time, about what you offer with your contact websites and/or photos, but again, you cannot directly sell puppies, services, other services, discuss prices or do transactions on that thread, other threads, or in PM's/private conversations on Poodle Forum.

5.5 Threads of self-promotion by commercial breeders, puppy mill and pet shop representatives, and doodlers will be deleted.

5.6 You are not allowed to announce your services of cross-bred poodles in the Poodle Breeder Directory, as we will not allow promotion of the breeding or selling of mixed-breed poodles anywhere on the forum. We will not tolerate anyone promoting or advertising their kennel or services in this line of business._

I've seen this go three different ways:

1) Few or any comments.
2) Praise over photos and program, especially if other members have bought a puppy from the breeder and are satisfied customers.
3) A mix of criticism but light on praise.

For the reason of #3, not many breeder-members take advantage of the free promotional thread b/c they simply don't know how others will respond. For example, some commenters will go hard on a breeder that doesn't show or do activities with their dogs. Others don't care as long as the poodles are cute. Some are big on CHIC or DNA testing, others don't need all the titles, bells & whistles. Then there's the home-raised vs dogs kept in in attached part of the house, or kenneled in the barn. Puppy socialization programs are a must-have for some people, while others never heard of them and think they're not important for an 8 week old pup. And then there's the critique of how well the breeding stock of adult poodles conform to the physical standard of breed, i.e. "your poodles have short legs" or are "roach-backed." The areas of debate seem endless and have been known to devolve in arguments..

Also when you have a litter of adorables, feel free to show them off in the Poodle Pictures section. That's more commonly done by members who had a litter and just want to brag about their new babies.


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## poodleloverrr (Apr 9, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> Thanks, That makes some of this easier to vet.
> 
> Yes, AKC registrations have been faked at times. Reminder here that all the AKC/UKC registration means is the the dog is purebred.
> 
> ...


Thank you this helped a lot


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I always like both seeing people doing their research, scoping out Rose n Poos great list and suggestions, and then coming and asking too! Yes, there may be someone else who has had experience with that breeder, or their pups, that might give very helpful input. If looking for another Spoo that is what I will do for sure! 
Wishing you the best of luck in finding your breeder and puppy!


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## poodleloverrr (Apr 9, 2021)

kontiki said:


> I always like both seeing people doing their research, scoping out Rose n Poos great list and suggestions, and then coming and asking too! Yes, there may be someone else who has had experience with that breeder, or their pups, that might give very helpful input. If looking for another Spoo that is what I will do for sure!
> Wishing you the best of luck in finding your breeder and puppy!


Hi yes I have found my breeder! The name is Callasterns Standard Poodles! Thank you!


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