# How Old is Too Old to Breed?



## Saphire (Nov 15, 2013)

There is a breeder who comes highly recommended and when I did a search her name came up many times positively on this site. I am thinking about the breeder but am not certain only because this is not the color I pictured myself with (I know, color is not important but since I have not found the perfect breeder hopefully I can get that too).

She has a standard puppies available. She mentioned health testing in her email and listed a bunch of world reknown vets (or so she said, they probably are) but the mother definitely does not have a Chic number. Other dogs she has bred do. I assume there are other organizations other than OFA. 

Her questioneer was quite extensive.

The father was born in 2010 and the mother was born in early 2009 or possibly late 2008 (was shown in late 2009 and she looked fully grown). My neighbor has a retired female breeder and she was 8 when he got her. How old is too old? The puppies seem good


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

I've read it many times here on PF that color doesn't matter. Unless someone really doesn't care, I strongly believe that color does matter as much as the breed one has their heart set on. 

For example, if you want a white Spoo b/c you just like the look or want have some fun with color dyes over the years, then another color Spoo just won't do. Or maybe ebony black that won't turn blue (gun metal gray), or flaming red or soft apricot excites you. Some like the elegance of true silvers. And so forth. 

One ingredient in love is visual pleasure. If this wasn't true, many of us would have another breed of dog, because poodles don't have a monopoly on beauty, smarts, and elegance. 

There are also LOTS of fine poodle breeders out there and not all are mentioned on PF. For example, smart hobby breeders who only have one litter per year and never shows their well-bred female but mates it to a champion is a good bet if both parents past the DNA testing. 

Again, this is a matter of preference; personally I could care less if one of the parents isn't titled in anything, but the other parent is and at least half the dogs on both sides of the pedigree are champions. Again, that's just me. 

And, whatever pup you end up with will hopefully last 15 years, so waiting a few extra months to find exact look you really want is just a few minutes on the clock. 

Oh! About age. I don't know. To me it's kind of pushing it to breed a female over six years old; seems like she's entitled to a rest, but that's a moral issue rather than a biological one. AKC says sires can breed up to 12; the advantage of that is you know if they've developed cataracts, etc, and if they haven't had health problems by 12, they're probably pretty healthy.


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## Saphire (Nov 15, 2013)

Vita said:


> I've read it many times here on PF that color doesn't matter. Unless someone really doesn't care, I strongly believe that color does matter as much as the breed one has their heart set on.
> 
> For example, if you want a white Spoo b/c you just like the look or want have some fun with color dyes over the years, then another color Spoo just won't do.
> 
> ...


You are absolutely correct. I think about a great puppy that is a color I do not want and there is a part of me that is disappointed, I feel like I am compromising. Then I wonder if I am silly to give up a great personality because of color. I guess it will depend on what else is available.

In this case, it is not my least favorite color but not my favorite, the idea was starting to grow on me because the puppy apparently has a great personality. Then I noticed that it appears the Dam was born in early 2009. I did not know that was even possible but seriously, a dog who is at least 9 giving birth? While I have never witnessed a dog pregnant, old or young and I personally did not find pregnancy more difficult at 40 than at 33, what do people who have witnessed this think? I am sure the dog is treated well but is there a moral issue here? Next, morality aside, in humans there are more issues when the parents are older. For example they found an association with Autism and fathers over a certain age (I forget the age). Perhaps there are or will be issues from having older poodle parents? Is that possible?

AKC recommends dams retire at 8 and the stricter guideline is 5 or 6. A dog who is over 9 is geriatric although I guess it is technically possible the dam had not turned 9 yet when the puppies were born


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I think 9 is a bit old and I would ask the breeder about it. May be a reason she bred her or could possibly be a misprint. Color..yes I would not give up a pup because of color. I wanted a rich red or dark brown. My guy is white...I'm not sorry and I don't feel I compromised . He is a great boy.


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