# Silver Toy Poodle, About to buy this puppy. Need Help!



## Enzo_Poodle (May 28, 2020)

Hi, can you guys tell if it’s a full poodle by the pictures. ? Haven’t had no luck finding a breeder but found this little guy today.
The gentleman says he has AKC Register Dad and Mom, just don’t want be scammed. Is there a way other than paper work for me to check the puppy once I see him to make sure it’s not a mix of any other kind ?

























Thank you for any feedback.


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

Hi Enzo, welcome to PF. I've moved your thread from Member Intro to Poodle Talk where more members can see it.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

He's very cute. How old is he?

All you can do to be positive is a DNA test. Looks can be debated for years but If his parents are AKC registered as purebred poodles, and they actually are poodles, not just registered that way (doesn't happen often but has been known), then a DNA test will be pretty definitive since it only needs to verify one generation back and to a well tested gene sampling.

Just looking at him, I think he could be but can't be sure. I can't really tell anything about his conformation. Here's something to look over to help you determine when you see him. I wouldn't expect him to meet the highest standards of this, I know my boys wouldn't, but it's a guide for you.


http://www.cincinnatipoodleclub.org/uploads/PoodleBreedDocument.pdf



Ask and answer for yourself, how much will it matter to you if he isn't?

The more I look and enlarge, the more I think he probably is all poodle. Mostly, it's the expression in his eyes. He just almost looks sad to me but I think I see intelligence there too. One of my girls had those "old soul" eyes.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Are you able to meet the parents to ensure they're healthy, well cared for, and have desirable temperaments? That will also help you to confirm this really is a poodle puppy. 

He's very cute, but his coat does remind me a little of my Gracie's at that age. According to her DNA test, she was half miniature poodle.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Here's my mini, Remo, at 12 weeks. 









And this little toy guy


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## Vee (Mar 2, 2018)

Did they say why the puppy is not registered?
On looks I would say he isn’t a full poodle and possibly has some yorkie in him. His coat isn’t quite wooly and isn’t silver either, as silver starts at the roots but he is greying similarly to a Yorkie. Either way he is very cute and I’d be tempted to have him.
My main concern would be health tests of the parents and I would want to see the dam with the pup to ensure he isn’t from a puppy farm and the mother is healthy and has a good temperament.


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## Muggles (Mar 14, 2015)

I would also guess not full poodle. As a puppy, a silver poodle should still be mostly black, not as silver coloured as this. The face shape also doesn’t look quite right to me, though I don’t know toys as well as standards.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Muggles said:


> I would also guess not full poodle. As a puppy, a silver poodle should still be mostly black, not as silver coloured as this. The face shape also doesn’t look quite right to me, though I don’t know toys as well as standards.


I agree that a silver puppy shouldn't be this light at this age. It's got some other color pattern. Brindle and other interesting color variations do, rarely, occur in poodles, but they are more common in terriers. Considering the rarity, I would expect the breeder to be trumpeting the puppy as a brindle or whatever if that's what she has.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

It's hard to tell with puppies. I've had poodle mixes that looked more poodley as puppies, but when grown, looked very different. A DNA test would have to be done.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

He doesn’t have good conformation (which makes me suspect his breeder did no health testing and doesn’t care about the breed) and I don’t think he is full poodle. Maybe not even half, it’s hard to tell. He looks like he has teckel in him to me.

You can do so much better. Find a good, ethical breeder, even if you need to wait a little.


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## Whoiscoconut (May 11, 2020)

I would venture to say he's not full poodle, buuuuuttt I'm a sucker for the tiny babies and probably would've taken him home bc he's super adorable. I have nooooo puppy control.... 😂


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## Whoiscoconut (May 11, 2020)

did they maybe clip him down all over? usually they're little floof balls at pick up age and in spots his coat looks like it has some longer pieces.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Seriously good point about the coloring. 
Check out the Silver thread in Poodle Rainbow to compare.
Looking again now, I see that more *upright" face or a Yorkie or summat.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

That is not a silver poodle puppy. If this is what the "breeder" told you - I would look for another puppy AND definitely another breeder.

I have a silver minipoo. When born they are completely black - as black as puppies that will remain black. When they shave the face around 4-6 weeks you see a slightly silver, less black face but the body remains black. They slowly turn silver over a year or more.

Also it's hard to tell, but it looks like the puppy's feet turn out instead of being straight which may be a conformation problem.

This sticky has excellent information to help you find the right puppy. Buying a puppy safely - the basics


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## Vee (Mar 2, 2018)

Has he had a trim?
The more I see the pic the more I see a yorkie tbh. Especially the one of him standing his body and feet are that of a pet yorkie


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

I agree that this is not a purebred poodle. The biggest hint is the color - all silver poodles start out black.


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## Teddy’s mom (May 20, 2020)

He’s adorable! I agree I don’t think he’s full poodle.


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## Whoiscoconut (May 11, 2020)

After some closer research, I could be wrong but the silver pups when it comes to toys seem to not be all black to start. They seem to have a really good base of silver at young ages. I found this pic of a puppy around 12 weeks and he looks pretty close. I kinda think he could be and for whatever reason they may have trimmed him all over


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## Whoiscoconut (May 11, 2020)

If you look in the last pic of your puppy you can see where the fur looks cut by the eye because it’s suck a straight line. I totally could be wrong but most of the smaller toys don’t seem as black as the standards when they’re small.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

I personally wouldnt buy that puppy, just because I dont like the body language. He looks to be shying away from the picture taker and huddling in a safe spot, rather than climbing on top of them or exploring (which is the reaction of most confident, well socialized puppies). I cant speak to the colour or the structure as I dont have a toy poodle, but I would pass on this one.


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## Vee (Mar 2, 2018)

Whoiscoconut said:


> After some closer research, I could be wrong but the silver pups when it comes to toys seem to not be all black to start. They seem to have a really good base of silver at young ages. I found this pic of a puppy around 12 weeks and he looks pretty close. I kinda think he could be and for whatever reason they may have trimmed him all over
> View attachment 467483


I also came across this image. This puppy is a ‘teacup’ toy poodle which I would also be dubious of. Also, judging by the dogs they breed from they aren’t 100% poodles regardless of them being registered, they are not well bred at all. 






__





Teacup Poodle Breeders Tiny Toy Poodle Breeder Toronto Ontario Velvet Touch Kennel lines


Teacup Poodle Breeders and Tiny Toy Poodle Breeder in Toronto Ontario at My Teacup Poodles. Our poodles come from the Velvet Touch Kennel line which is renown for producing tiny teacup poodle puppies.



www.myteacuppoodles.com


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## Whoiscoconut (May 11, 2020)

my main point was that the tiny toy poodles do come out differently from the standards. My tiny toy was curly but I bet at 12 wks if i would've shaved her down she probably would've looked more like the puppy posted bc her hair was considerably softer than a typical poodle coat and stayed that way. I'm not going to argue the breeding aspect of tiny toys bc I personally don't judge breeders for the sizes they prefer. There are great, horrible, and everything in between of breeders no matter what size of a puppy you want.


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## Vee (Mar 2, 2018)

And my point is teacups (like merles) clearly have others breeds involved in their lines. 








these are silver toy poodles.


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## Whoiscoconut (May 11, 2020)

My teacup didn't. the whole lineage was poodles. Gia was just the runt. somewhere I still have her family tree. I'll try and find it but there are toy breeders that find the "runts" and breed creating the "teacup" most clarify they know teacups aren't a "thing" but they use it to clients to clarify how small a puppy is and that it's technically still a "toy" poodle.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

I think a lot of people object to the practice of breeding "the runts" to create a smaller, more fragile poodle. Or, alternatively, a poodle with shorter legs that no longer follows breed standards.


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## Whoiscoconut (May 11, 2020)

a lot of the general population doesn't understand the vast sizing of toys. A lot don't understand the toys are calculated technically by height. most people say I want a tiny dog 3-4lbs or something like that. I didn't know most of this before. When I went out looking I originally went looking at yorkipoos and they were too big. A breeder my ex was doing landscaping for breed poodles and she heard him making a fuss about me and said what about a full toy poodle, and showed him Gia. Later, I came and it was case closed that's what I wanted. she Had long legs, short body and her parents were I think 6 and 8lbs.


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## Vee (Mar 2, 2018)

Yes each of the poodle types range in sizes and I know the size a toy should be also but I’m talking confirmation. You posted a pic of a toy poodle. That poodle is from teacup breeders who’s breeding dogs have very poor confirmation and clearly have chihuahua in them. So that doesn’t confirm in mo that the dogs in the ops post is a full toy poodle.
Im well aware breeders have size preferences and aim to create smaller lines. I have bred dogs myself and know a few breeders of a variety of different breeds who have size preferences but when conformation is being compromised your doing something wrong or dodgy!


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## Whoiscoconut (May 11, 2020)

I didn't confirm the originals op was purebred, but I said it could be a possibility. I would want to see the lineage but I wouldn't necessary rule it out due to the color alone.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Tiny teacup and teacup are marketing terms invented by greeders to make their product easier to sell. There are no « teacup » or « tiny teacups » or whatever silly name you desire to add.

Only 3 sizes in North America : toy, miniature and standard. Add « moyen » if you’re in Europe. No serious breeder would ever use that term and if someone is trying to sell their dogs using these terms, run as fast as you can...

I’m sorry but well bred toy poodles look nothing like the picture we saw. Vee’s picture is what they look like. Backyard breeders will have their toy poodles looking different from what they should be.


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## Whoiscoconut (May 11, 2020)

We know there aren't teacups, yes. But I can understand why breeders use the term. the general population sees a teacup as the extra small size. Imagine if a mother of children who didn't know the poodle breed was searching for a toy poodle. (Her idea of toy being 10-12lbs) so she went to look at a toy poodle hours away and expected that size then found out the pup would only be 3-4lbs. pictures are hard for determining size, so I see why breeders use "teacup" as a size reference.


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## Whoiscoconut (May 11, 2020)

majority of them will state somewhere on the site that they use it strictly for size navigation not as a breed.


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## Whoiscoconut (May 11, 2020)

there's so many factors involved here that I'd say it's impossible to tell from the posters pics. factors like age, was he/she shaved in down or trimmed in this pic, is he/she standing weird or do the feet actually bow out. My profile pic is Gia and I think her feet look bowed out and out of conformation but her conformity was great. Pictures can be deceiving.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Whoiscoconut said:


> We know there aren't teacups, yes. But I can understand why breeders use the term. the general population sees a teacup as the extra small size. Imagine if a mother of children who didn't know the poodle breed was searching for a toy poodle. (Her idea of toy being 10-12lbs) so she went to look at a toy poodle hours away and expected that size then found out the pup would only be 3-4lbs. pictures are hard for determining size, so I see why breeders use "teacup" as a size reference.


I don’t think serious, ethical breeders use that term at all. All you have to do is mention the approximate adult size and people will understand. A good breeder’s job is to educate as well. You don’t invent terms to please the public. You make the public aware of what is.

In fact, a good way to rule out bad breeders is to avoid anyone using that term.


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## Whoiscoconut (May 11, 2020)

I haven't met a toy breeder in the midwest who has never used the term teacup. It may not be on their site but on the phone they all jump to it right away on the phone.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Take a pass on that puppy, if you want a silver toy. You can get a gorgeous puppy as shared by Vee or you can get the first fluffy available. Best wishes, whatever you decide.


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## Vee (Mar 2, 2018)

Whoiscoconut said:


> I didn't confirm the originals op was purebred, but I said it could be a possibility. I would want to see the lineage but I wouldn't necessary rule it out due to the color alone.


I know you didn’t, you went from “he’s not a full poodle” to he “possibly Is” It seemed it was based on this pic. 👇🏼 I was simply saying this puppy is clearly not a purebred either. 
View attachment 467483


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

To me the puppy looks extra fragile and scared. It is truly difficult to tell from a picture whether it is full poodle or not, and I think we all personally have a "look" we prefer to see. Me I like a sturdy looking pup even if its extra small and I want a puppy with good bone, that doesn't look scared when touched. Just my two cents.


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## Enzo_Poodle (May 28, 2020)

Update,

Thank you for all the responds and i do apologize for the late replies for some reason i never got the updates that i was getting any responds.
I ended up buying him and taking the chance and what a great chance i took.
He is now been fully registered with the AKC and i even got the family tree package to see his trail.
He's not 8 month old and only weighs 5.25lbs.
Its been such a great experience that the past weekend i ended up buying another one from my now good breeder friend.
Here are some pictures takes 1 hour ago.

Indie Boy (Silver Toy)
Hes getting lighter as hes grows which i heard if perfectly normal.









Luna Girl (Red Toy)








Happy smiles, she's only 8 weeks old.









Both of them are now AKC registered..


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Very happy for you and your quite puppyfull new family! 

Consider doing a 52 Week thread, over in the Poodle Pictures forum. We'd love to watch them grow and see them change


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