# M/F size difference in Standards?



## Jems (Jul 30, 2018)

I realize that there are genetic differences and differences between lines. However, in general, how much bigger/taller are males than females?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Taking into account that my spoos are from totally unrelated lines, Lily is about 37 pounds and 22 3/4" at the withers and Javelin is about 50 pounds and 24" at the withers. Their heads are also obviously dimorphic to my eye (but interestingly when they are together many people think they are both girls).











Javelin is on the left and Lily on the right.


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## Jems (Jul 30, 2018)

lily cd re said:


> Taking into account that my spoos are from totally unrelated lines, Lily is about 37 pounds and 22 3/4" at the withers and Javelin is about 50 pounds and 24" at the withers. Their heads are also obviously dimorphic to my eye (but interestingly when they are together many people think they are both girls).
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> View attachment 442557
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They're from different breeders?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Yes they are from different breeders. I would have gone back to Lily"s breeder, but they took an "early" retirement once their human kids hit their teens and acquired super busy schedules. Javelin is from Madela in Connecticut and has a lot of Ale Kai in him.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

My girl is 24" tall, 48 lbs. and boy is 25.5" tall and 54 lbs. Like lily's dogs, they show obvious sexual dimorphism to someone who is familiar with spoos.


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## rkj__ (Dec 24, 2017)

While I have not done a meaningful collection and analysis of statistical information, from my casual reading, it looks to me like females are typically about 5-10 lb lighter, all other considerations reasonably equal.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

That all other things being equal is important. These are both adult male standards. Cole maybe up to 21 inches tall and is about 35 pounds. Monster aka Apollo is 26+ inches and is over 65 pounds. My girls are 21 inches and 24 inches tall. My small girl has a littermate that is the same size as Monster.


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## Suzysue (Feb 3, 2016)

Cooper and Mini have the same dad and Cooper is 25” and 55lbs whereas Mini is 22” and 40 lbs. Cooper is the biggest from his litter and Mini is the smallest from hers.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I had occasion to meet Javelin's half sister (same sire) last week and she is very dainty, maybe even a bit smaller than Lily).


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Renn @ 8 months is 25 1/2 inches at withers and 55 lbs. He will put on a few more pounds I'm sure. I don't think he will get too much taller.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Iris was 21" and 37 lbs her brother, littermate, Louis was exactly the same size.

Poppy is 23" and 43 lbs. She has a brother, littermate who is approximately the same size, maybe a couple of lbs lighter than she.


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## barbiespoodle (Apr 25, 2010)

Once apon a time in a Galaxy far, far away, I worked for a breeder/handler of poodles. I took care of upwards of 20 to 60 poodles at any given time, from many different breeders or bloodlines. I really never gave much thought to size since, in my eyes, they were standards, mini's and toys. As far as size, we only really worried that the mini's and toys were going to fit under the wicket.

But this post made me think back. Even after all these years I can still see so many of those dogs I tended to, I loved so many of them, and I can see where the females tended to be smaller than the males. Of course there were exceptions, but it was a pretty constant thing. 

And I also remember being able to tell a male from a female in a mature dog just by looking at the face. And this goes with other pure breeds as well. 

K, to the point, akc says that a standard is any poodle over 15" at the withers. Of course a 16" is a oversize mini, and while it could be shown as a standard, it would never win no more than a 11" oversize toy shown as a mini would win. 

Reading your size and weights on your spoos makes me wonder about my Roland. At 8 months of age, I took him to the vet to use their scales and he weighted just short of 60 lbs at the time and he doesn't have an ounce of fat on him, I call him my boney butt since Eustace is fat. I don't have a accurate number for how high he is because I can't find my yard stick(darn husbands) but using a tape measure, he's now about 24" at just reaching 10 months old. Right now I'm just hoping he's at a gangling teenager stage because he is long backed and not a perfect square. It's possible, they change so much at this life stage and do go through what I call the fugleys. I'll never get rid of him, he's my little man, but my poodle snobbiness wants a square poodle. 

Lily, you made me feel my age. Ale Kai kennels, what a flashback. Founded in Hawaii, they were the ultimate show place of kennels. All pink, air conditioned, those dogs lived better than some people. But what I remember was when Wendall Sammet was at first the handler of the spoos, but then took over the breeding of the line. The one I remember best was Ali Kai Aphrodite, she was the top winning spoo at the time and a real show stopper. I think her father was Ali Kai Zeus, another glorious top winner, but don't quote me on that. For a while, the Ali Kai spoos had Greek god names. And believe it or not, I can even give more history on the kennel, they were a part of my past. I'm an old lady, I know more historical kennels than present kennels, lol. But it's those historical kennels that got us to where we are today.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

And Wendell has given over the well reknowned Ale Kai lines yet again to Karen LeFrak. Delana and Mark got their foundation dogs from Wendell and also had mentored working relations with Joesph Vergnetti. Javelin's grandfather is Ale Kai Mikimoto on Fifth, and we all know who that is, right? I feel very fortunate to have been welcomed into that extended family on the recommendation of Debbie Dubay (who you will know of if you do agility).


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## barbiespoodle (Apr 25, 2010)

Lily, been a long and I do mean, long time since I played the game. It's great hearing how some of the old lines I use to know are still continued today.


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## gateapples (Jul 31, 2018)

This has been such an interesting topic for me. I have two spoos. Different breeders. Both boys. My black spoo weighs 64 pounds and I’m not sure how to measure him but he is tall. My white spoo is only 5 months but will probably weigh in the neighborhood of 50 pounds based on doubling his weight at 4 months. Their faces are so similar! I do see the male face as different from female. In the picture with the black spoo (Bear) you can kind of see his size compared to me. I am 5’4” and was crouching.






The picture with the white spoo pup (Bailey) was taken July 23 when he was about 18 weeks. I’m going to try to figure out how to do 52 weeks with Bailey to record and share his first year!









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Charley02272019 (May 29, 2019)

Charley (male) weighs 46 lbs and about 24” at withers and is almost 7 months old. I am so curious if he will get much bigger. He is my first standard. I have had two miniatures. Love him. He is starting to turn silver!


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