# Proposed Rally Changes for AKC



## Axeldog

Wow! I love the idea of an intermediate class between Novice and Advanced. 

I hope these new classes are implemented, it would be great!


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## lily cd re

Axeldog I will be interested to see what the intermediate class will be like. Will it be on or off leash? If on leash will there be a jump? I think only a broad jump is safe with a leash on the dog.

For the masters class I imagine that you will be restricted to giving just one order at each station. I would also think it might be like the RAE class for rally nationals this year where there are no reattempts of stations allowed. If you miss the first time in RAE you have to take the -10 IP and go on. This would also be like the requirement for clean runs only as qualifying in the higher classes of agility. It is hard to envision what new signs they might add, but I would also think that some of the newer excellent only signs (that many judges rarely use) would be required in the design of masters courses. Since many of those signs are based on utility obedience I don't think Lily and I would have a problem with that requirement.

I guess we will know for sure about this after the February board meeting.


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## Raven's Mom

Lily cdre, I like hose suggestions a lot! I am in that place where intermediate would be helpful. I am not totally comfortable with the advanced signs all off leash yet. I am interested to know how the intermediate might be different from advanced.


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## mashaphan

i would guess that Intermediate would be,like the obedience PCD,some off leash /some on lead work. It IS tough to go from all on to all off for young dogs. The Master's would probably be like ASCA Master's, like Lily described. I have deliberately not done this level due to the lack of "cheerleading" that Che prefers.And I do not know how I would get him through THREE classes in one day-or more likely how I would hold up! :adore: Also,at 8+,I worry about too much jumping. He DID leap onto the top of the unused console tv to get his beaver last week,so if sufficiently motivated....:angel2:. we shall see,eh?

Martha


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## lily cd re

The intermediate class might be good for Javelin if it is a good way to transition to off leash. I am also thinking that I may do beginner novice with that young man this spring.

I just wish we didn't have to wait until December for the changes if they are approved. I would love to see what masters involves and try to get Lily started for that champion title.


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## mashaphan

From what I read recently, it appears as if Intermediate will also be all on lead. Interested to see how it will differ from Novice now-distractions on Figure 8 maybe?

Martha Che, and we finally got the Spoo,Otter


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## lily cd re

I will copy from the February AKC board minutes below. The Rally program changes were approved! The intermediate class will be all on leash, but use advanced signs (at least 3 per course) and will not have a jump included. No specifics on what the Masters class courses might be like, but there is information on the requirements for the RACh title.

_ "Rally Program Enhancements _
_The Board VOTED to create two additional Rally classes – the Intermediate class and the Master class. In terms of difficulty, the Intermediate class is between the current Novice and Advanced classes. The Master class will be more difficult than the Excellent class. There will be titles associated with these new classes. In addition, a Rally Championship prefix title (RACH) is recommended for dogs that achieve a given number of triple Qs (qualify in the Advanced, Excellent and Master class at the same trial) plus earn a given number of points from the Master class. Clubs may start to apply for events with these new classes on August 1, 2017 for events held on or after November 1, 2017. (Changes Underlined) _


_ Section 22. Limitation of Entries. _
_(Beginning at Paragraph 3) When entries are limited, a club must designate an RAE and a Rally Champion (RACH) class in the premium list. Dogs entered in this RAE class would be entered in both Advanced B and Excellent B, and the combined entry fee for these two classes must be paid. If due to entry limits an exhibitor cannot be entered in both the Advanced B and Excellent B classes the RAE class will be considered closed and any subsequent entries for this class will be unacceptable in their entirety. _
_ Dogs entered in the RACH class would be entered in Advanced B, Excellent B and the _
_Master class. The combined entry fee for these three classes must be paid. If due to _
_entry limits an exhibitor cannot be entered in the Advanced B, Excellent B and Master _
_classes the RACH class will be considered closed and any subsequent entries for this _
_class will be unacceptable in their entirety.However, a club at its discretion, may choose to establish a wait list in order to fill openings created by entries that are withdrawn prior to the event closing day. If a club is maintaining a wait list, this shall be stated in the premium. The full entry fee shall be refunded to an entrant whose entry is replaced by a wait-listed entry. _
_Chapter 2 _
_Section 16. Heel Position. _
_The dog is at the handler’s left side, facing the same direction the handler is facing; the dog’s body is within the area of the handler’s left hip; and the dog should be close to, but not crowding its handler so that the handler has freedom of motion at all times. _

_Chapter 3 _
_Section 7. Qualifying Scores and General Scoring. _
_Minor to Substantial Deduction (1-10 points) _
_for each of the following: _

_ Repeat of a station -- only one (1) retry of each station will be allowed for all class levels, except there are no retries in the Rally Master class. Repeat of a station is an automatic 3-point deduction _
_Section 10. Rally Ribbons. _
_At licensed or member rally trials, the following colors must be used for prize ribbons or rosettes in all regular classes__: _
_First Prize – Blue _
_Second Prize – Red _
_Third Prize – Yellow _
_Fourth Prize – White _
_Qualifying Prize – Dark Green _
_Highest Combined score in Advanced B and Excellent B award ribbon or rosette shall be Blue and Green. _
_Section 12. Highest Combined Score in the Advanced _
_B and Excellent B Classes._
_The dog receiving the highest combined score in Advanced B and Excellent B will be awarded the ribbon and any prizes offered for this placement after the Advanced B and _
_Excellent B classes have been judged and after the announcement of those final scores. _
_The superintendent or show or trial secretary will mark the catalog with an (HC) to _
_identify the dog receiving this award. _
_Section 13. Highest Scoring Triple Qualifying Score_
_._
_ The dog receiving the highest combined score in Advanced B, Excellent B and Master class will be awarded the ribbon and any prizes offered for this placement after the_
_ Advanced B, Excellent B and Master classes have been judged and after the announcement of those final scores. The superintendent or show or trial secretary will mark the catalog with an "HTQ" to identify the dog receiving this award. _
_ In the case of tied scores between dogs eligible for the above award, the dog completing the three courses in the least amount of combined time will receive the award. In the event that both the score and time are the same, each dog will be tested _
_again, individually, by performing a course as chosen by the judge. The original scores will not be changed, but a plus (+) will be added after the score of the dog winning the _
_runoff. The judge for a run-off will be designated by the club from among the judges of the rally trial. When a run-off has been completed, the judge will record the results on a special sheet that identifies the dogs taking part in the run-off by catalog number, class and breed. When the judge has marked and signed the sheet, it will be turned over to the superintendent or show or trial secretary who will mark the catalog accordingly and forward the sheet to the AKC as part of the records of the trial. If a club chooses to allow dogs listed with AKC Canine Partners to enter their trial, such dogs are eligible for the Highest Triple Qualifying Score in the Advanced B, Excellent B and Master classes _
_Chapter 4 _


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## lily cd re

And the rest of the Masters and RACh information.

_Section 2. Rally Intermediate Class._
_ To be eligible for this class dogs must have won the Rally Novice (RN) title but have not earned a qualifying score in a Rally Advanced. All dogs are judged on leash.__ Rally Intermediate must have between 12 to 17 signs (Start and Finished not included) with a minimum of three and a maximum of seven stationary signs. Intermediate courses will have a minimum of three Advanced level signs. There are no jumps in this class. _
_ The letters RI may be added after the name of each dog that has been certified by at least two different judges to have received qualifying scores in Intermediate class at three licensed or member rally trials. That dog will receive a Rally Intermediate certificate from the AKC. _
_Section 3. Rally Advanced Class. _
_The Rally Advanced A Class. _
_To be eligible for this class, dogs shall have won the Rally Novice (RN) title, or the Rally Intermediate (RI) title, but have not won the Rally Advanced (RA) title or any AKC Obedience title (including optional class titles) prior to the close of entries. _
_The Rally Advanced B Class._
_ To be eligible for this class, dogs shall have won the Rally Novice (RN) title, or the Rally Intermediate (RI) title prior to the close of entries. _
_Section 4. Rally Excellent Class. _
_Section 5. Rally Master Class. _
_To be eligible for this class a dog must have won the Rally Excellent (RE) title. All dogs are judged off leash. The Master class must have between 15 to 20 signs (Start and Finish not included) with a minimum of three and a maximum of seven stationary signs. _
_ Courses will have a minimum of three Advanced level signs, three Excellent level _
_signs, four Master level signs plus the one required jump sign. There are no retries for any of the signs on the Rally Master course. Unlike in the Rally Novice, Intermediate and Advanced classes, in the Rally Master class handlers are not allowed to pat their legs or clap their hands to encourage the dog. Verbal encouragement, multiple commands and/or inaudible signals using one or both arms and hands are allowed; the handler’s arms need not be maintained in any particular position at any time. Handlers may not touch their dog or make any physical corrections. The letters RM may be added after the name of each dog that has been certified by at least two different judges to have received qualifying scores in the Master class at ten licensed or member rally trials. That dog will receive a Rally Master certificate from the AKC. The letters RM will be followed by a numeric designation indicating the number of times a dog has met the requirements of the RM title as defined in these regulations. (RM2 for 20 qualifying scores, RM3 for 30 qualifying scores,RM4 for 40 qualifying scores, etc.) _
_Section 6. Jumps._
_ A dog is required to jump once in the Advanced class, twice in the Excellent class and once in the Master class. _
_Chapter 5 _
_Section 1. Dogs that May Compete. _
_Rally Championship points will be recorded for dogs after they have earned the Rally Master title. When a dog earns the Rally Champion title, it may continue to compete and earn points. _
_
__Section 2. Championship Points. _
_Rally Championship points will be recorded for dogs earning a score of 91 or better in the Rally Master class. A dog must earn a total of 300 points. Additionally, the dog must have received qualifying scores in Advanced B, Excellent B and the Master class, on the same day at the same trial at 20 separate licensed or member rally trials. _
_Section 3. Point Schedule_
_. _
_Master _
_Class _
_Score  Points _
_91 1 _
_92 1 _
_93 1 _
_94 1 _
_95 1 _
_96 1 _
_97 2 _
_98 3 _
_99 4 _
_100 5 

_ _Section 4. Rally Champion Title. _
_The AKC will issue a Rally Champion certificate and will permit the use of the letters RACH preceding the name of each dog that meets the requirements. The letters RACH will be followed by a numeric designation indicating the number of times a dog has met the requirements of the RACH title as defined in these regulations. (RACH2 for 40 triple qualifying scores and 600 points, RACH3 for 60 triple qualifying scores and 900 points, etc.)"_


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## mvhplank

By my calculations, the lowest cost estimate to complete an RACH title is $3,000. That would be ...

• 60 perfect runs (5 points each) in the master class times $30/run = $1,800
• Plus 40 more runs @ $30 (for the required 20 triple Qs) = $1,200

And, given the realities of competition, it will likely cost a whole lot more to finish all the points required after you get your 20 QQQs.

By comparison, an RAE title probably costs around $1,200.

Right now, I just don't want to spend the money to chase that title--but maybe later. I'm skipping a lot of rally trials this year. I'm not even going to Premier, UKC's big show in Kalamazoo, even though Neely is the #4 dog (and highest-scoring poodle) in both Levels 2 and 3 on the nationwide 2016 Rally All Stars list.

I'm saving my money to try to finish Neely's UKC utility title, since it will mean travel and motel expenses. He picked up his first leg in December. I'm also looking for two Qs in AKC Preferred Open to finish that title. We're going to try our first outdoor AKC obedience trial in May (yes, we've already started practicing outside at the park).

Thanks for all the information!

Marguerite


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## lily cd re

It will be expensive! The training director at my club said she thought teams like Lily and me who have advanced RAE titles should be grandfathered some way, but obviously I won't hold my breathe waiting for that to happen.

Another concern raised to me was how clubs will be able to fit in the new classes. I suspect many will skip the intermediate class in favor of masters. I suppose they will limit the entries as well.


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## mvhplank

I was going to ask whether RAE had been discontinued, but I went back and read the rules to see that it was still available.

I look forward to hearing about your experiences in Masters. 

I am on my way to topping out in CDSP (just finished UDX-C2 and have 49 OTCH points to go), but since most of my runs are free, that's a nice problem to have. Like I said, I'm working on UKC and AKC obedience for now. Then--who knows? Maybe scent sports.

M


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## Verve

Thanks for doing the math, Marguerite--I was looking at the requirements and thinking that was an expensive title! It's too bad they didn't make it competitive the way the OTCH is, where you earn points towards the OTCH by placing in the B classes and beating other competitors.


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## mvhplank

Verve said:


> Thanks for doing the math, Marguerite--I was looking at the requirements and thinking that was an expensive title! It's too bad they didn't make it competitive the way the OTCH is, where you earn points towards the OTCH by placing in the B classes and beating other competitors.


You're welcome! 

At this point, I'm not a fan of the requirement of winning a class in OTCH pursuits (CDSP doesn't have that requirement--just points). Maybe if I were a better handler, I'd be in favor it.

M


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## lily cd re

I was pretty surprised at how stingy they were on the points for the masters' scoring. I could wish for ten points for a 100 down to a 1 for a 91.


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## mvhplank

Agreed!


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## lily cd re

Well maybe if enough clubs, judges and exhibitors commented about the point schedule they would consider amending it. It seems like it is harder to earn the points for a RACh than for an OTCh.


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## mvhplank

lily cd re said:


> Well maybe if enough clubs, judges and exhibitors commented about the point schedule they would consider amending it. It seems like it is harder to earn the points for a RACh than for an OTCh.


Yep, that's what I was thinking. I'm trying to get some freelance work caught up and couldn't justify taking time to look it up. 

M


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## mashaphan

i just got a look at the new signs:afraid: and glad Che retired! As directionally challenged as I am,and prone to dizziness,i cannot imagine doing some of those! Glad it is really too expensive to even seriously consider (this from someone who was not even going to do RAE,and here we are,RAE2) Since Otter is only 11 wks old (today!) ,we have a lot of time to work out those "toughies"!

Martha et al


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## scooterscout99

I attended a workshop about the new AKC signs/titles today. My boy just earned his Advanced title at our training club's annual rally trial, choosing to not wait on the Intermediate title. There are few trials within reasonable driving distance so it's unlikely that I'll pursue a title in Masters, however, the new signs look like fun. My weekly practice group (we primarily train for agility) may play with the new signs just for fun.

In my region there are more venues that host UKC and WCRL rally trials, with two trials/day for 4 over a weekend.


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## spindledreams

My fear, as a newbie working on first titles on my dogs, is how will this affect entries to Rally trials? If you have multiple people entering 3 classes so they can work on that RACH how many spaces are going to be left for newbies? I mean there are only x number of entries available for most trials in my area...

Also if being shown twice in conformation in one day is too much for a conformation dog why is being required to have Double or Triple Qs in performance events not considered to much? (Yes that is a common complaint I have heard about the double shows it is too hard on the conformation dogs to be shown twice)


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## lily cd re

At the beginning at least people will be working on the Masters Title and not looking for the triple Qs, so I don't think that will interfere with how many entries in each class are available in the first months at least. What might take more slots away from novice would be the intermediate class since anyone with a novice title could enter that class as it will be optional. Clubs will have to designate how many runs they want to allocate for the different classes and include that information in the premiums. Although AKC might not have been thinking about this hopefully the clubs will remember that rally is a great way to get people into dog sports and to grow the success of their events. This should make them hold spaces for novice teams.

As to the second point you raise about double shows for conformation the only thing I can think of is that at big shows it takes a long time to get through all the breeds then groups then BIS and I can't imagine how late it would end up being if they did two shows in one day.


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## spindledreams

I worked steward for an AKC shows that used that format at AKCs request. After it folks bitched for weeks about how hard it was on the dogs to have to compete twice in one day. It was a slightly smaller then normal show for that club due to some changes in venue and it ended about 6:30 - 7:00pm so not all that much longer then a normal show in my experience. I was sorta like ummm it was one day... I do UKC so of course my dogs are used to 2 shows a day 2 days in a row and when we attend Gateway it is 3 days of double conformation shows PLUS performance events. 

I do actually sorta understand the reason for the double Q in Obedience but still can't figure out why Rally which can be as intense in higher levels would require a triple Q... It just seems very poorly thought out but I have not sat down and really studied the requirements as it will be a very long time before any of my dogs can compete at that level especially as severely handicapped as they will be by me. Armband that is an armband turn not a blank sleeve turn. Yep that is me on a course...


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## lily cd re

Now that I ran a Rally Masters signs class I have had more conversation with people who have real interest in doing it. We all feel the points schedule is stingy and that it will be expensive to go for the RACh title. I agree that there is a lot that is complex about the upper levels of rally. Unlike obedience where you know exactly what the exercises will be, but not the order until just before hand if you are in the B classes, in rally you don't even know what the exercises will be let alone their order until that day. You also can't beg and plead with an RAE/Masters level dog to do things even though you can talk. So that is not so different from obedience. I do plan to do the Masters title with Lily and then depending on how she does we will figure out whether or not to try for RACh.


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## scooterscout99

These were linked on a breeder's website, videos of the rally signs.

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCOmnrKKiM2kcaowVl3SXeVQ/playlists


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## lily cd re

scooterscout99 said:


> These were linked on a breeder's website, videos of the rally signs.
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCOmnrKKiM2kcaowVl3SXeVQ/playlists



That is a great link!


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