# After 1st Heat - Will vulva return to normal?



## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

It won't go back 100% but it should shrink down a lot. If the discharge is completely stopped I think you should be safe. I've heard if you want to be super safe you can wait a full four weeks from the start. But I think I'd be fine with putting her back in class. I would definitely give a good bath though to try to get the scent off of her so the boys don't bother her.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Thanks, Raindrops! She'll hit the 4-week mark on Tuesday and class isn't until Thursday. I'll be sure to give her a good scrub this week.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Congrats! Big milestone. I'm sure it's nice to be done with.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Thanks  It was so much easier than I thought it would be. And she's such a cuddle monster now.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

She should be fine for the class on Thursday. Watch for signs of phantom pregnancy in around 6-7 weeks time, such as swollen nipples, nesting, even lactating - so common as to be considered normal, but disconcerting if you are not prepared!


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## Newport (Jul 16, 2014)

Congratulations on getting to the end of it. I really appreciate hearing all of your experiences so I can be ready for Violet’s (and my) first heat. I’ve had dogs so long it is strange to think there’s this whole category of dog experience I’ve never had before. Have fun at class!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> She should be fine for the class on Thursday. Watch for signs of phantom pregnancy in around 6-7 weeks time, such as swollen nipples, nesting, even lactating - so common as to be considered normal, but disconcerting if you are not prepared!


How strange! She's already shown some interesting maternal behaviour, dragging her plush toys to the couch from her crate (where they've stayed for literally months, since we got them) and _immediately_ grabbing them again if we try putting them away. She seems a bit exasperated by our failure to understand the seriousness of the situation. ?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Newport said:


> Congratulations on getting to the end of it. I really appreciate hearing all of your experiences so I can be ready for Violet’s (and my) first heat. I’ve had dogs so long it is strange to think there’s this whole category of dog experience I’ve never had before. Have fun at class!


That's exactly how I've felt! And now I regret missing out on this experience with past dogs.

Once you get into the groove, it's all rather easy and fascinating, and it has definitely improved our bond. Even my husband has looked a little misty-eyed at times, witnessing the changes in Peggy and being there for her when she's needed a little extra TLC.


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## susan Davis (Jan 28, 2020)

I had an Irish Setter when I was young (I'm 81 now) and she adopted a grooming brush as her 'baby'!!! I started to take it away, and she certainly told me in no uncertain means, that was not just a brush. Took about 7-10 days for her to release her baby!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

susan Davis said:


> I had an Irish Setter when I was young (I'm 81 now) and she adopted a grooming brush as her 'baby'!!! I started to take it away, and she certainly told me in no uncertain means, that was not just a brush. Took about 7-10 days for her to release her baby!


That is really cute. And I appreciate the warning! If Peggy did that and I wasn't prepared, I'd have worried she was starting up some new resource guarding nonsense.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

My dog’s genitals always went back to its original size. 

Beckie had a severe depression episode while being in heat, but mostly after. It lasted 6-8 weeks if I remember correctly. She was pitiful and I hated that she was in that state.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> My dog’s genitals always went back to its original size.
> 
> Beckie had a severe depression episode while being in heat, but mostly after. It lasted 6-8 weeks if I remember correctly. She was pitiful and I hated that she was in that state.


Oh that's interesting! Peggy doesn't seem depressed, but she's had some growling episodes the past couple of days, which have me on edge. I wonder if it's hormonal?

She was mostly a puddle of mush while she was in heat. And she's otherwise just so much more obedient and mature. She sticks so close to me, I feel like I have a shadow. We've finally bonded.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Peggy doesn't seem depressed, but she's had some growling episodes the past couple of days, which have me on edge. I wonder if it's hormonal?


It could be, but don’t allow it If she’s growling at people.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> It could be, but don’t allow it If she’s growling at people.


I'm so worried about making it worse. I've never encountered this with past dogs. ? I keep hearing that if you suppress the growl, you are setting yourself up to get bit without any warning. Hard to imagine our loving, social girl biting aggressively, but....I've not known her long enough to trust her completely.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I'm so worried about making it worse. I've never encountered this with past dogs. ? I keep hearing that if you suppress the growl, you are setting yourself up to get bit without any warning. Hard to imagine our loving, social girl biting aggressively, but....I've not known her long enough to trust her completely.


There are two schools of thought on this. One says correcting the growl is good and others say it's bad. My hunch is it probably depends on the dog and the circumstance. A very fear aggressive dog... probably not going to help. But a more confident dog that is being protective or possessive? Maybe that's fine. I'm not sure.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I used to growl at people too when my hormones were all over the place...

My response to that sort of grumbling is usually "I know - life is rotten sometimes. Let's go and do something nice for dogs." Occasionally, depending on circumstances, it is "OY! Enough of that! Now let's go and do something nice for dogs." If she is guarding toys or objects as if they were pups the usual advice is to distract her and remove them when she is not around to be upset, then keep them out of the way till she is through the phantom pregnancy. She is likely to feel rather confused and jangled the first time around - I am trying to remember Sophy at that stage. As I recall routine and a calm, upbeat attitude helped the most.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Raindrops said:


> There are two schools of thought on this. One says correcting the growl is good and others say it's bad. My hunch is it probably depends on the dog and the circumstance. A very fear aggressive dog... probably not going to help. But a more confident dog that is being protective or possessive? Maybe that's fine. I'm not sure.


She's often jumpy, so maybe fearful? But she's also very brave and up for trying new things so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's so much easier to figure out other people's dogs! I'm too close.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> I used to growl at people too when my hormones were all over the place...
> 
> My response to that sort of grumbling is usually "I know - life is rotten sometimes. Let's go and do something nice for dogs." Occasionally, depending on circumstances, it is "OY! Enough of that! Now let's go and do something nice for dogs." If she is guarding toys or objects as if they were pups the usual advice is to distract her and remove them when she is not around to be upset, then keep them out of the way till she is through the phantom pregnancy. She is likely to feel rather confused and jangled the first time around - I am trying to remember Sophy at that stage. As I recall routine and a calm, upbeat attitude helped the most.


Thank you!! I appreciate your perspective. I can imagine she's feeling quite out of sorts. Still too early for a phantom pregnancy, but she's matured so much in just the past month. She must be awash in hormones and experiencing all sorts of new confidence AND insecurity.

P.S. I read a lot of Patricia McConnell and I see your thoughtful comments pop up from time to time on her blog. So nice! Like bumping into a familiar face.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

In what circumstances does she growl ?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> In what circumstances does she growl ?


Well, she's generally a growly girl. Like when she hears a particularly worrying noise outside she'll give a warning, or if she's playing with a frisbee or other dogs, she'll sometimes do a breathy growl with each pounce, etc. Those don't concern me.

But over the past month or so she's done it in a more possessive way: 

-Twice when we tried picking up a frisbee to throw, in the middle of an otherwise totally normal game of fetch, she got way too intense, growled, and lunged at our hands.

-When I tried (stupidly) petting her while handfeeding her a raw chicken wing for the first time, she gave a low rumble. So low I almost didn't hear it. I immediately took it away, which might have been the wrong thing to do because....

-Just yesterday, she growled a few times while playing with her Kong and then a ball. She was trying to engage us, encouraging us to "take," but when we reached for them in her mouth, instead of dropping them (as she usually does) or even playing normal tug, she growled the moment we made contact. And it wasn't her usual play growl...BUT she didn't actually want us to stop playing. So maybe I'm just reading too much into it? I don't know. 

She's great in her classes, great playing with other dogs, great around her food bowl and treats, etc.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Well, she's generally a growly girl. Like when she hears a particularly worrying noise outside she'll give a warning, or if she's playing with a frisbee or other dogs, she'll sometimes do a breathy growl with each pounce, etc. Those don't concern me.
> 
> But over the past month or so she's done it in a more possessive way:
> 
> ...


I don't know. Misha plays that game all the time but he doesn't drop the item when you touch it. Instead he growls REALLY intensely and does a quick yank away from you like he's pretending to be really angry. It's all feigned seriousness and he definitely doesn't mean it aggressively. It's one of his favorite games. I do have to make sure people know he's joking though because he can sound pretty serious.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Raindrops said:


> I don't know. Misha plays that game all the time but he doesn't drop the item when you touch it. Instead he growls REALLY intensely and does a quick yank away from you like he's pretending to be really angry. It's all feigned seriousness and he definitely doesn't mean it aggressively. It's one of his favorite games. I do have to make sure people know he's joking though because he can sound pretty serious.


And my mini used to do it, too. It was all for fun. Peggy just sounds so much scarier!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think I would discourage it - simply stop play and walk away. If it is play growling she will quickly find a better way; if it is conflicted feelings ("I want to play; I want to keep it for myself") you avoid escalating things and give her a chance to calm down and decide what she really wants. I have seen too many injuries from dogs that grab for a ball or frisbee at the same moment as a human - drop and wait are essential skills when playing this game. I would ensure tug is for tug toys, keep away for special keep away toys, fetch for balls and frisbees, and keep the rules around each game very clear.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> I think I would discourage it - simply stop play and walk away. If it is play growling she will quickly find a better way; if it is conflicted feelings ("I want to play; I want to keep it for myself") you avoid escalating things and give her a chance to calm down and decide what she really wants. I have seen too many injuries from dogs that grab for a ball or frisbee at the same moment as a human - drop and wait are essential skills when playing this game. I would ensure tug is for tug toys, keep away for special keep away toys, fetch for balls and frisbees, and keep the rules around each game very clear.


Thank you. Really good advice.

We've just started clicker training and it's highlighting for me just how vaguely my expectations are often communicated. I can also see that she LOVES learning the rules. I'll be more diligent about enforcing them during play. 

It's definitely hard, though, with multiple people in the house. I've turned into a real nag, constantly correcting my husband so we maintain some semblance of consistency.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Well, she's generally a growly girl. Like when she hears a particularly worrying noise outside she'll give a warning, or if she's playing with a frisbee or other dogs, she'll sometimes do a breathy growl with each pounce, etc. Those don't concern me.
> 
> But over the past month or so she's done it in a more possessive way:
> 
> ...


It might be concerning. Or not. Some dogs do a « play growl » and they don’t mean it. But in her case it sounds like she means it and she might be ready to bite.

Am I wrong or was she already growling when really young and you were concerned then too ?

Can you post a video so we can see her in action when doing this behavior ?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> It might be concerning. Or not. Some dogs do a « play growl » and they don’t mean it. But in her case it sounds like she means it and she might be ready to bite.
> 
> Am I wrong or was she already growling when really young and you were concerned then too ?
> 
> Can you post a video so we can see her in action when doing this behavior ?


She did worry us!

She growled when the vet examined her at her first appointment, 2 days after coming home from the breeder. But she let everyone else touch her, no problem. Even when the assistant restrained her and the tech gave her shots—not a peep. And we returned a couple of weeks later to see a different vet, with no problems there either.

She was vomiting her food and underweight when we first brought her home, so I suspect she was under an extreme amount of stress. Luckily, she quickly blossomed with some TLC, but the experience left me extremely watchful and anxious. That's been a real journey.

Although she is fine with us around her food dish, brings us toys and chews, etc. and snuggles in close to enjoy them, I do think she might be prone to resource guarding because she was malnourished. Her breeder was free-feeding the litter, which was NOT a good idea. She seemingly had no idea Peggy wasn't getting enough. 

I can try to get a video, but the behaviour is so rare. I can literally stick my hand in her mouth and massage her gums and teeth. If I take a ball from her, her usual response is to open her mouth wide and put her tongue up as a barrier between my hand and her teeth, like she's trying to spit my hand out. She really doesn't want to hurt me. 

I could probably trigger a growl with another raw chicken wing, but I'm not sure that's a good idea....


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

In other news, her vulva is almost back to normal  Just has more of a mature shape now.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I could probably trigger a growl with another raw chicken wing, but I'm not sure that's a good idea....


Definitely do not do that. You will only strengthen the behavior and make it worse.

It’s the growling when playing that I’d be curious to see.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> Definitely do not do that. You will only strengthen the behavior and make it worse.
> 
> It’s the growling when playing that I’d be curious to see.


She's not done it again since, but if she does, I'll pull out my phone. I would really appreciate a second opinion! Thank you


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