# Post Op Pyometra



## snow0160

As you know from my other thread that my experience with rover was beyond awful. I need immediate advice if anyone is reading this:

We picked Kit up yesterday from her operation the day before. She was prescribed Tramedol 50 mg and Amoxi/clav 625mg. She ate a handful of kibbles last night with her meds and sipped a tiny bit of water. We put her in a cone to prevent licking. This morning, I've noticed blood and discharge everywhere and it was a lot more than before the ovariohysterectomy. She had an open pyometra which is why I noticed the discharge from before. The vet told us to expect "some" discharge but this is a lot more than "some". 

I had contacted the vet several times and I asked him to prescribe Zeniquin, which is a much more aggressive antibiotic. He left the med outside his door so I could pick it up after hours because he was closing at the time of the call. 

I just offered Kit some food and water and she refused it and went back to sleep. My DH went to pick up the Zeniquin and I am still freaking out as Kit does not look like she is improving. Should I take her to the Emergency Vet? Their quality is a bit questionable or should I listen to Paul and wait to see if the Zeniquin works?


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## snow0160

It looks like the Zeniquin is for 125 mg and I am a bit concerned she would have peritonitis, which is difficult to tell since everything is stitched back up and I don't have a xray machine.


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## twyla

Go with your gut instinct if it were me I'd be at the ER


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## Viking Queen

twyla said:


> Go with your gut instinct if it were me I'd be at the ER


Always listen to your gut feelings....they are there for a reason. 

I would go to the ER.

Sending many (((hugs)))


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## fjm

Vet. Better safe than sorry. Hope she is better soon - thinking of you all.


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## marialydia

Thinking of you as you are going through this terrible time. 

The thing is, it's possible that it's not infection. It could be, since Kit's insides were a bit unusual, that something else is happening, or that something came "undone". If that were the case, the new antibiotic won't solve the problem. 

Going to the best emergency vet you can, could give you more information and a solution. 

But in the end, you need to do what will also help you heal -- that's really the most critical! 

Many wishes and hugs for the best outcome.


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## reraven123

I'd say go with the emergency vet. At the very least you will get a second opinion.


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## Muggles

What a terrible series of events for you all - I agree with the others, go to vet.


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## Dechi

I’m so sorry this is happening. Follow your instincts. If you think there is something wrong, there is a good chançe there is.


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## snow0160

Ok the anger has definitely set in!! I want to call rover and respond to the sitter’s text and shout at them but DH said I should wait until I get some money back. I have horrible stomach pains from the stress. Well at least it isn’t ovarian cramps. I just want to shout at this sitter right now via text and report her to animal services. DH said that is the wrong order. He said I should 1. Get medical reimbursement from rover 2. Get refunded from rover for the boarding 3. Get retribution on sitter and call animal services. 
Thankfully Kit’s breeder responded and is equally pissed. She has a ton of vet experience and told us to take her in if her temperature reaches 102.5. She is currently at 102. 


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## lily cd re

I agree with Paul and your breeder. Try to be calm and take care of yourself.


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## snow0160

I’ve been watching kit like a hawk for the past hour. She finally got up and drank some water. Her discharge has slowed down a lot and her temperature dropped .2degrees. Poor doggy.


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## Click-N-Treat

Snow,

I agree with your husband, but your instincts are perfectly reasonable. I am so sorry this happened. Please remember to eat something. I know when I get stressed out I forget to eat. Look after yourself so you can care for Kit.


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## snow0160

Click,
Thank you. My stomach pain is from taking 2 pills of Naproxen and 2 pills of acetaminophen in the middle of the night without much food. I did it because I had horrible post-op cramps. I was actually terrified of getting an infection like the one Kit had since my operation was in the same area.

Edit: My doctor gave me Rx for Tylenol/Codeine but I wanted to stick to OCD. Prescription painkillers freak me out and that combo in the past only worked for 20 min the last time I needed it for my wisdom tooth. I've been having horrible night time cramps that wake me up in the night.


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## Dechi

Careful with Naproxen. In Canada it’s a prescription drug. That stuff will really make your stomach hurt if you don’t take it wisely.

Take good care of yourself. Everything that’s happening to you is such a shame.


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## fjm

Good to hear she is a little better, but as others say do take care of yourself too. NSAIDs on an empty stomach are not a good idea - I found omeprazole helped when I made that mistake.


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## Mufar42

hoping both you and your little one continue to improve.


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## Skylar

I too hope that things are going better today for everyone.


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## Viking Queen

Checking in to see how everyone is doing....hope no news is good news!


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## snow0160

Thank you guys for the warm wishes.  I’ve been asleep all day due to waking up several times from acute gastritis. I was so scared yesterday because Kit had so much bleeding. As of last night her blood went from brown pus to red and this morning it is a clear liquid. Her temperature went from 102.3 to 101.8. She is still not moving much but will drink water and eat her medicine. The pug is improving a lot quicker as her eye gouge has already started filling in. I don’t know if she will have scar tissue because it is quite large. During this whole mess yesterday, I even filed my claim with Rover. 
The acute gastritis has been really bad. I’ve been feeling pretty angry and ate delicious cookies and cream ice cream to make myself feel better. Since we couldn’t leave the dogs alone, we had some pizza delivered. Wrong move! The excruciating stomach pain woke me up a few times last night and this morning. I had thought about taking Omeprzole. This is an excellent suggestion. It is an ocd here in the states but it interacts with my other meds so I’ve only been making bland rice porridge in my amazon instant pot. It is really soothing and easy to make since it it just rice. 
I have a trip scheduled for March 29- April 16 to go see my grandma in china, who has not been in good health. This would be Paul’s first trip to China. We booked the ticket about a year ago and my cousin scheduled her wedding on those dates. I am very reluctant to leave my dogs, and if I did, I would board them at the vet I trust. People sometimes don’t get it and tell me they are just dogs but I care so much about their well being. This boarding experienced has marred me for life. I feel like I should abandon the trip and stay with the dogs.


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## zooeysmom

I came here to check on you since I haven't heard from you all day, missy! Well now I know why. So sorry you're going through all of this. You deserve a BIG break! Hugs


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## snow0160

Zoeeysmom so good to see you here!! I’ve been forsaking my phone due to work emails keeps binging. I’ve been just looking at my iPad which doesn’t have work or social media here.


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## Vita

Snow, I don't often venture into the Other Animals section often, so I'm just reading this and your last thread about the horror you've been through the past three days. I'll be saying extra prayers for you and your dogs tonight and this week.


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## Dechi

Poor woman, this is a nightmare !

I really hope you don’t cancel your trip and most of all, enjoy it. There has to be a place where your dogs will be safe near your house. People leave their kids with babysitters everyday, and nothing bad happens. You can’t stay home forever.

On the other hand, I fully understand your trauma. Sigh. Let’s hope it works out for everyone... Fingers crossed.


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## Vita

I agree about taking the trip. It's not for another month and by then you hopefully will have recovered, and be ready for a nice vacation break from all the problems.


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## CharismaticMillie

Poor Kit! Hope she feels better soon. What type of surgery did she have? I didn't see your other thread. Was it a spay? How did she develop Pyometra post-spay? If the uterus is removed, it shouldn't be able to become infected!


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## Skylar

CharismaticMillie said:


> Poor Kit! Hope she feels better soon. What type of surgery did she have? I didn't see your other thread. Was it a spay? How did she develop Pyometra post-spay? If the uterus is removed, it shouldn't be able to become infected!


Kit was boarded, along with Snow's other dogs with a dog sitter she found on Rover. 

Kit, I believe was having her first heat. When she picked Kit up, she noticed an abnormal brownish discharge and took Kit to the vet where she was diagnosed with open pyometra. Kit had an emergency spay procedure to remove her infected uterus.


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## CharismaticMillie

Skylar said:


> Kit was boarded, along with Snow's other dogs with a dog sitter she found on Rover.
> 
> Kit, I believe was having her first heat. When she picked Kit up, she noticed an abnormal brownish discharge and took Kit to the vet where she was diagnosed with open pyometra. Kit had an emergency spay procedure to remove her infected uterus.


Oooh, okay. The title of the thread confused me - it sounded like she developed pyometra post op. That makes sense. So scary about the Pyo! Hope she feels better soon. At least it was an open pyo!


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## snow0160

Adorable update: everyone is feeling better! I’m so happy! Kit is moving around a lot so we separated Lucky and Kit. We were afraid she would tear her stitches. They have the sweetest relationship. Kit is laying on one side of the door and Lucky on the other. They miss each other very much and Lucky keep trying to sneak inside to see his sister. Their noses would sometimes touch through the bottom crack.


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## marialydia

Best news ever! I certainly hope this includes you, snow!


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## lily cd re

That is good news and I also hope this means you are feeling better too!


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## snow0160

Thank you Marialydia! I’m feeling better too! After my operation, I went walking around Los Angeles but immediately regretted it the next day. I rented a wheelchair and toured the Getty Villa, Griffith Observatory, and did a LA bus tour. We did that because part of the purpose of the trip was to see if we wanted to move there. So many of my friends live in LA and love it. I might have overstrained myself keeping up with friends and making the most of my trip but am recovering slowly. 

ETA: I really liked LA the first time I visited bc we just saw coastal places like Malibu, Palisades, Santa Monica but this time I’ve gotten a better sense of the whole city. My conclusion is that I don’t like Los Angeles culture or more like Hollywood culture. It creeped me out how perfect everything appeared from the shallow people to the fake weather. I felt like no one was grumpy in that city except for me bc I’m stuck in traffic and 30 min late to everything. You can’t ever go faster than 45mph and the canyon roads off Mulholland is terrifying. LA traffic makes NYC traffic wonderful. Lol. 


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## Muggles

So glad Kit is on the mend, and you as well!


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## Mfmst

When you and Paul go to China, could you board the whole gang at the vet and hire someone to do extra dog walking, play?


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## snow0160

We are thinking of doing exactly that. We are gonna be gone for 14 days but they need to be boarded for 16 bc two days fall on the weekends. The cat hospital and the bird store took excellent care of my pets during my visit to Los Angeles so I’ll give them repeat business. The dogs can go to their regular vet. 


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## Skylar

I'm so happy reading your update that all of you are feeling better.


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## Johanna

I'm so glad to hear that things are looking up for you. You have certainly had a terrible time.

I agree with your analysis of LA - our son lives there and loves it, but I, too, find it a very shallow, plastic culture. I came home to New Mexico after being away for many years. One thing I wanted to come home to was the friendly culture that mixes Indian, Spanish, and Anglo all together.


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## fjm

I am so glad to hear you are all feeling better - and that image of Kit and Lucky snuffling to each other under the door is delightful! I hope all three invalids now have a steady recuperation.


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## MollyMuiMa

Oh Snow! I live in San Diego and I HATE LA TOO!!!!! You are right it is a plastic place filled with plastic people who worship plastic surgeons LOL! but please don't base your opinion of all Calif on that icky place! The real people live in the smaller 'bedroom' communities outside of the bigger cities! Even here in San Diego the real San Diegans stay away from our downtown because of the glittery tourist trade everywhere..... we are nowhere, noway, like LA! Even San Francisco is better than LA! LOL!


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## snow0160

My neighbors have been really nice and asked about how half of my dogs have cones. Here is a photo where both dogs are surprised to see the other in a cone. Kit is saying to Nibbler “what is that on your head” Lol 











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## Asta's Mom

I would have never thought dogs in cones would make a cute shot - but that of Kit and Nibbler is adorable - you can see the love there.

So glad that all of you are doing better. Agree on your opinion of LA - the freeways are unbelievable. I was told "if you have to think, pull over"


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## galofpink

Glad to hear that you are all doing better. Despite the circumstances that put them in the cones, the cone picture is adorable!


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## snow0160

The doctor sent out a tissue sample for biopsy and the results came back today. He said there were some “weird stuff” when he cut Kit open. He literally said it was “something he has never seen before”. Well, it turn out it is embryonic stem cells from when Kit was a puppy. It never developed and just sat there. He has never seen anything like it in his entire 30 years of practice. He was not able to remove these tissues during the surgery bc he did not know what it was. The worst thing that could happen is reinfection but he said that hopefully, without a uterus and ovary, she would have no hormones causing any future infections. So it isnt bad news just odd news. Have anyone heard of undeveloped stem tissues?


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## lily cd re

It is probably not all that uncommon since most of the time it doesn't do anything, but yes there can be undifferentiated stem cell tissue or sometimes embryonic tissues that decide to develop later in life into benign tumors called teratomas. Emphasis on benign. If you look for pictures they will seem scary, but they are benign.


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## snow0160

lily cd re said:


> It is probably not all that uncommon since most of the time it doesn't do anything, but yes there can be undifferentiated stem cell tissue or sometimes embryonic tissues that decide to develop later in life into benign tumors called teratomas. Emphasis on benign. If you look for pictures they will seem scary, but they are benign.




I asked the vet if it was a tumor and he said no. Paul was the one who received this info and I was still a bit confused. Thank you for this explanation because it makes a lot more sense. All we knew before this was that she had an inverted vulva, or hypoplastic vulva. 

I talked to my mom a few days ago and told her that her reproductive organs has some malformations, she in humans that it can cause issues like incontinence. I still have no idea how large the mass is but could it along with the swollen ovaries uterus be the cause to her pooing problem? A few week ago, I started a thread about her new indoor pooing habit. I have no idea if it is related.


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## Skylar

snow0160 said:


> I asked the vet if it was a tumor and he said no. Paul was the one who received this info and I was still a bit confused. Thank you for this explanation because it makes a lot more sense. All we knew before this was that she had an inverted vulva, or hypoplastic vulva.
> 
> I talked to my mom a few days ago and told her that her reproductive organs has some malformations, she in humans that it can cause issues like incontinence. I still have no idea how large the mass is but could it along with the swollen ovaries uterus be the cause to her pooing problem? A few week ago, I started a thread about her new indoor pooing habit. I have no idea if it is related.


Wow, I think you found the answer to Kit's strange pooing problem - makes sense.


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## fjm

I think it is more likely that the pooing problem was the very first whisper of the pyometra starting - after all, the tissue has always been there, but the infection was new.

I am glad everyone is beginning to get back to healthy normality after such a thoroughly upsetting time.


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## snow0160

I really doubt that she had pyometra since we sent her off because the disease progresses too quickly. The pooing problem is probably caused by the heat cycle along with the extra tissues. Unfortunately she did not stopped dedicating indoors but her hormones levels are probably still there


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## Vita

snow0160 said:


> The doctor sent out a tissue sample for biopsy and the results came back today. He said there were some “weird stuff” when he cut Kit open. He literally said it was “something he has never seen before”. Well, it turn out it is embryonic stem cells from when Kit was a puppy. It never developed and just sat there. He has never seen anything like it in his entire 30 years of practice. He was not able to remove these tissues during the surgery bc he did not know what it was. The worst thing that could happen is reinfection but he said that hopefully, without a uterus and ovary, she would have no hormones causing any future infections. So it isnt bad news just odd news. Have anyone heard of undeveloped stem tissues?


Snow, I'm glad it's not anything worse.

After reading this, the first question to cross my mind was is Kit a chimera? It's also known as _Vanishing Twin Syndrome_. "A vanishing twin, also known as fetal resorption, is a fetus in a multi-gestation pregnancy which dies in utero and is then partially or completely reabsorbed (by the surviving fetus.)"

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanishing_twin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics)

Some wild things have been known to occur when this happens in humans:

*The Ghostly Explanation For How A Man’s Unborn Twin Fathered His Child:*

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...or-how-a-mans-unborn-twin-fathered-his-child/


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## snow0160

Hm... that is interesting Vita. I’ve never heard of that. Whether Kit is this or not is beyond my pay grade lol


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## zooeysmom

Vita said:


> After reading this, the first question to cross my mind was is Kit a chimera? It's also known as _Vanishing Twin Syndrome_. "A vanishing twin, also known as fetal resorption, is a fetus in a multi-gestation pregnancy which dies in utero and is then partially or completely reabsorbed (by the surviving fetus.)"
> 
> /[/url]


I was actually thinking the same thing. I would ask the vet about this possibility.


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## snow0160

Kit just got her stitches removed today! I was not there and shared the idea with DH and he knows about the concept and said it is highly possible. Her recheck is in a month when we will get possible answers 


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## snow0160

Bad news: 
Rover decided to only cover Nibbler's bill and nothing from Kit due to a technicality: you can't prove that pyometra is caused by just the environment because it is determined by elevated progesterone levels during the dog's heat cycle. My vet is a square although I really like the guy. I've looked up the likelihood of pyometra on a dog's first heat cycle, it is low single-digit percentage (cited below in link). I have made my arguments to rover and cited my proposal and they won't reopen the case without a vet's word. Arg!!! 

My breeder is also a vet tech and she has agreed to write something for me because she doesn't want this to end up being a congenital issue. I am not sure her words are going to carry any weight. I am open to any ideas because the case is open until March 16th. 

Here is what Paul wrote to Rover: 

"Regarding rule item (1), although the growth (which a biopsy revealed was simply undeveloped fetal tissue) was present prior to the Rover stay, the key point is that it was not infected prior to the Rover stay. It was during this time that Kit became dirty and then infected, which is what caused her to require emergency surgery.

Regarding rule item (4), the growth was unidentified at the time (though it has since been identified as benign fetal tissue) but the issue was not with the growth - the illness was the infection in her uterus, which was clearly visible in the massive swelling on the x-ray our vet showed us, and is also a well-known and recognized canine infection.
Beyond the issue of specific exclusions, there is also the issue of increased cost due to neglect. As we noted in our original claim, the sitter did not even notice either the discharge from Kit or the large gash in Nibbler's eye. If she had been properly attentive, Kit's condition (regardless of source) could have been treated immediately, which would have meant:
They could have tried treating the infection with antibiotics rather than full emergency spay. The success rate (especially on open pyometra like Kit had) can be quite high. A retrospective study of 40 cases of canine pyometra-metritis treated with prostaglandin F-2... - Abstract - Europe PMC This would have saved both money and the risks of surgery.
If the infection had been caught early, we also could have had a non-emergency procedure scheduled and saved money there as well. Again, by not simply watching the dog and taking action when the symptoms became apparent the sitter cost us additional money.
So essentially, there are two ways where the sitter's negligence unnecessarily increased our bills and put our dog's health at risk. Here's an example of the sort of situation we're facing: imagine if our dog was diabetic. The diabetes was a pre-existing condition, so that would not be Rover's responsibility. However, if a Rover sitter ignored the clear signs of worsening diabetic complications until our dog required veterinary attention, that would be Rover's responsibility because the problem was exacerbated by the sitter's negligence."


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## Skylar

Snow, do you think it would help if you had a lawyer? While Rover could argue the sitter didn't cause the pyometra, her complete inattention did cause excess expenses for you that they should cover. I presume they refuse to cover pain and suffering on both your part as well as Kit's.

Is everyone back to normal health? Including you?


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## snow0160

That is a good idea but I need to look over rover’s arbitration clause in their T&C. 
The dogs are all doing well. Nibbler’s eye was pretty crazy bc we were up one week straight administering meds. I am feeling better except I have plantar fasciitis and achilles issues. Probably hormonal changes for me and I’ve had a history of achilles tendinitis. Other than that I am doing well. 


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## galofpink

Ugh, no ideas for you Snow, unfortunately. I think Paul made very logical points for such an emotional situation. Not sure what to tell you, but I am sorry that you are still having to fight through the “legal” stuff regarding this women’s incompetence.


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