# Poodle designer breeds



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I often spend hours 'playing' on my computer and today I was wandering around all the poodle sites looking at future haircuts for Molly this summer and ran into this.........(Google) 'Poodle Designer Breeds' and WOW! I've heard of most of the common ones, but on this site they show em' all and then some! There are pictures of most of the mixes, but for the life of me I could not figure out the 'WHY?' except for $$$ You'll be really surprised at some of the mixes!

:ban::ban::ban:


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## sweetheartsrodeo (Sep 19, 2012)

This weekend we were out and about with Remington. This lady stopped me to ask if he was a pure poodle, and I said yes that he was. She went on about how pretty he is, and I agreed. As we were finishing our shopping she asked me if I was leaving, and I said yes, she wanted to show me her dog... It was a poodle Old English Sheepdog mix. What a beautiful dog... She said that she got her as a rescue... A lady was breeding them and selling them for big bucks, when he mill was raided. Said some had their tails cropped and those that had not, had no hair on their tails, and were in bad shape... It just broke my heart. But, her pup, Bonnie, was a doll. She and Remi kinda sniffed at each other, but didn't get to play as we were in a parking lot... 

I am with you, I don't understand the designer doggie concept.


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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

Mutts. Of course everyone wants something mixed with poodle because poodles rock!


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## sweetheartsrodeo (Sep 19, 2012)

Poodlemama99 said:


> Mutts. Of course everyone wants something mixed with poodle because poodles rock!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


On one of my yahoo poodle list, a lady joined, and said her doodle (not sure what kind of doodle as she never said) could stand up to the rigor of showing, and was better than any poodle... This caused a huge nasty email war, and it made me wonder... I don't think that these people see their "doodles" as muts. Now, also let me back up to say, that I think anyone who rescues or adopts a pup that is part poodle is amazing.. anyone that adopt, or rescues any breed is amazing, and I don't believe that the dog that they rescued should be termed "mutt," even though it does not have pure genetic lines... But I don't understand how people can breed these dogs knowing that so many of them are ending up in the shelters, and being put to sleep.  It breaks my heart to think about it....


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## Cailin77 (Jul 21, 2012)

I don't think "mutt" is a bad word- but maybe that's because I grew up with some great mutts with completely unknown lineage. That being said, I am against the designer dog trend.

Bernadoodles- can you imagine how giant they must be? Oh and Borderdoodles (Is that right? Border collie x poodle) must be the most high energy mix ever!


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

I have a friend who bought a Labradoodle. Her daughter bought a dog from the same litter. I'm fairly sure they paid a lot of money for the dogs. My friend said, "They're sisters, but, you know, they don't look anything alike." Really?

I think, as another poster said, people who buy mixed breeds don't think of them that way. If they have a name, Labradoodle, Sheepadoodle, Cockapoo, then they're a breed. I've read that breeders sometimes even provide "registration papers."


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## Cailin77 (Jul 21, 2012)

JudyD said:


> I've read that breeders sometimes even provide "registration papers."


I came across this site once when looking into the "registry" people were talking about. Designer Breed Registry a registry for not only designer dogs your It would be funny (they "register" any mix possible) if it weren't so horrifying! 

My aunt has two Goldendoodles and is still friends with their breeder almost ten years later. The woman currently uses a mpoo stud and her "minidoodles" go for $2500!


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## My babies (Aug 14, 2012)

I just googled it and saw some of the pics. I didn't even know they bred poodles to that many other breeds. Some of them just looks so ridiculous. That's so sad. They probably end up with lots of genetic defects.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

I think the breeders also enjoy sitting around thinking up the weird names!


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## Meg (Aug 1, 2010)

Honestly, I think most doodle dogs are adorable and I was pretty set on getting a labradoodle when I first considered adding another dog a few years back. After some_ major _research I decided that I would be happier with a standard poodle, and I am. All of the things I loved about the 'doodle breeds' where available by getting a poodle and at half the cost , with greater predictability. You're right MollyMuiMa, I'm pretty sure it's all about money and selling the next big trend. Some of the common doodles are super cute but a lot of the more unusual ones are just funny lookin'! :bulgy-eyes:


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I looked at the mix pictures. It's funny they all look like an overgrown poodle!! Just grow out the face on poodle lol


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## Lene (Jan 18, 2013)

That's just one of the reasons Storm will be neutered... Cross breeding poodles are extreme business here in Australia...


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## KidWhisperer (Apr 3, 2012)

I love goldendoodles! We considered both those and spoos, but went with the surety of no shedding with the poodle because of allergies with the kids. Yes, the prices some of these "designer" breeders are charging are outrageous, ridiculous and way out of our price range. But, to be honest, so were many of the poodle breeders we researched. On the other end of the spectrum are deplorable puppy mills, but again they are common on both sides. For me, I just cant jump on the "doodles are evil, who would ever buy one" bandwagon.

Sammi's breeder is an amazingly knowledgable, responsible and experienced breeder,but with a reasonable cost that we could afford. It took a lot of patience and research to find her, and I'm so thankful. Honestly, I can't and won't pay $2500 for any pet puppy, purebred or not!

Just my 2c worth!


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

Our vet said she'd seen only two goldendoodles in her years of pactice that weren't, in her words, "crazy." I think she meant very hyper. I agree some of the Labradoodles are cute, but so are most poodles. I just don't see why you'd introduce another breed into the mix--where's the gain, other than being able to say you have something "different?" And given the possibility for a wide variety of outcomes, what happens to the puppies in a litter that aren't cute, or curly, or hypoallergenic, or whaatever else? They end up as throwaways, maybe.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

JudyD said:


> I just don't see why you'd introduce another breed into the mix--where's the gain, other than being able to say you have something "different?"


The gain is to create a breed that has all the desirable characteristics of a Poodle, but is not characterized as a girly dog. And is therefore a dog that men can own.


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

Countryboy said:


> The gain is to create a breed that has all the desirable characteristics of a Poodle, but is not characterized as a girly dog. And is therefore a dog that men can own.


Ahhh, I see. And I have to admit, my husband wasn't too keen on a poodle, until he met Jazz. Now he's as much in love with her as I am. Cultural stereotypes are a real force, aren't they?


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

> The gain is to create a breed that has all the desirable characteristics of a Poodle, but is not characterized as a girly dog. And is therefore a dog that men can own.


Grin and that sissy dog image is something that Louter Creek Hunting Poodles has probably undermined by having one of their dogs on Duck Dynasty. And in an HCC no less! I do hope he shows up in future episodes.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

One of my local rescues had a wolfhound standard poodle cross. I seriously wonder what was going through the breeder's mind. The lurcher is a very traditional type in Britain: it's a cross between a sight hound and a scent hound, collie, or terrier. The idea is to produce a dog suitable for hunting hares and such; ideally you get much of the speed and drive of the sight hound with some additional skills from the other breed. But what does a poodle bring to the wolfhound type? And conversely, what does the wolfhound bring to the poodle type? Bird dogs are not one of the traditional types used in lurcher crosses.


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## Cailin77 (Jul 21, 2012)

Countryboy said:


> The gain is to create a breed that has all the desirable characteristics of a Poodle, but is not characterized as a girly dog. And is therefore a dog that men can own.


This made me laugh! I totally understand what you're saying, and I never would have thought of doodles like that. I find it all the more interesting, because a lot of men I know "don't like poodles" until they meet Brody! It's pretty funny since he's an mpoo, which is probably another strike against him to many men. He even goes to work with my brother whe I'm away and hangs out at the construction site the "manly" dogs (huskys, labs...). I guess my point is that you're right, but I think many men would like poodles if they met one in a pet or retriever clip so they didn't look "girly".


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## spotsonofbun (Jan 3, 2013)

I love both breeds, I've had labs and I am waiting now until I get suitable accommodation to get a little poodle or a poodle mix (rescue). They are perfect in their own way's but I can't imagen they are very mixed together, a dog that sheds like a lab needs grooming like a poodle with the adolescence of the lab and the intelligence of the poodle. Doesn't sound fun. 

I think it is ignorance and partly because people are uneducated not only about poodles but also about dog genetics. They want a labrador that doesn't shed that won't magically happen by breeding it to a poodle. They don't like the poodle personality, did they think the designer dog will magically get a non shedding coat and non of the poodle personality? 

On another dog forum a new member asked for information about shih poo breeder I asked why she just didn't get a pure poodle, she answered that she didn't like poodles. The why is she getting a dog thats like 50% or more poodle? 

We did manage to persuade her to get a havanese or pure shih tzu instead and gave her information about responsible breeders.

Another thing labs can't grow a moustache but a poodle can, doesn't that make the poodle manlier than the lab?


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

spotsonofbun said:


> Another thing labs can't grow a moustache but a poodle can, doesn't that make the poodle manlier than the lab?


Now that's funny!


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## cliffdweller (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm looking at this thread : "http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/31626-theyre-retrievers-right.html"

I'm using this as an example _only_ (--- there are many possible reasons for why this dog doesn't seem to "get it"); desired quality(-ies) may vary (could be pointing or flushing or hearding, etc.)

Are Poodles retrievers ? Well, maybe, maybe not; maybe once upon a time, but no longer.... But what if you want a Poodle that is also a dynamite retriever and you cannot find one in the Poodle gene pool ? What if "being a retriever" is a defining characteristic of the breed ? Where are you going to go to get that quality once it's been lost to the closed (AKC, etc.) gene pool ?

True retrievers are "hard-wired", genetically, for retrieving, and while just about any dog can be taught to retrieve, I know through experience with field dogs that it's just not the same. The trained dog will be lackluster compared to the one who has the ability and drive in his genetic makeup.

Specific genetic traits get lost in the genetic shuffle, when breeding is willy-nilly, or not with concern for breeding that specific trait or set of traits (-- e.g., not too many Poodle breeders are emphasizing the retrieving ability in their dogs). This does not rule out the possibility that a given individual could display the desired trait --- you could get lucky ...

People breed dogs for all kinds of reasons : $$, vanity, to improve the breed, to get a dog that will serve a specific function, even if that function is just to look cute ..., etc.

Since the beginning of domesticated dogs, people have always cross-bred dogs to get what they want (--- how do you think we got Poodles ?). This process continues and will continue (despite the breed clubs).

I wonder why some Poodle owners feel a need to frequently participate in Doodle bashing ?


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## spotsonofbun (Jan 3, 2013)

I wouldn't be doodle bashing if they were actively creating a breed with a purpose (that purpose could include being a good cute pet) Right now its simply opportunistic money making. There are a lot of pure bred breeders that I would never do business with either I like dog shows (looking forward to crufts) but I do fear that health and original purpose and even temperament has been lost in the search for conformation champions. 

I guess what makes me angry is that these people are taking advantage of their consumers, they claim they are healthier but both labs and poodles suffer from hip dysplasia. 

The Cesky terrier was orginally created by mixing the scottish terrier with the sealyham. But if you now breed a scotty to a sealyham you don't get a cesky. It takes generations before they are breed, when they not only have the right look but most importantly have the temperament needed to perform their jobs.


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## cliffdweller (Jan 31, 2011)

spotsonofbun said:


> I wouldn't be doodle bashing if they were actively creating a breed with a purpose (that purpose could include being a good cute pet) Right now its simply opportunistic money making. There are a lot of pure bred breeders that I would never do business with either I like dog shows (looking forward to crufts) but I do fear that health and original purpose and even temperament has been lost in the search for conformation champions.


I think some of the original Lab-Poodle crosses ( ? ... Australian ?), were made with a specific purpose. But, in general I agree with you. All breeds and specific crosses are subject to fads, and for the most part, vanity and $$$ rule in the breeding of dogs ("purebred" and cross alike). 



spotsonofbun said:


> I guess what makes me angry is that these people are taking advantage of their consumers, they claim they are healthier but both labs and poodles suffer from hip dysplasia.


I'm not sure about all of them. Certainly, many are interested in $$$ and mislead to get it -- true of "pure-bred$" and crosses alike. In general "hybrid vigor" is a valid concept, though it is used improperly by many.

What do you think about the Pointer-Dalmatian crosses ? 



spotsonofbun said:


> The Cesky terrier was orginally created by mixing the scottish terrier with the sealyham. But if you now breed a scotty to a sealyham you don't get a cesky. It takes generations before they are breed, when they not only have the right look but most importantly have the temperament needed to perform their jobs.


Yes, of course, but you have to start somewhere, and obviously, there will be many failures in the long process of "fixing" the genetic makeup of a breed.

Modern dog breeds genetically disconnected from ancient ancestors

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Then all the field desired me to let my Laelaps go:
(The Grewnd that Procris unto me did give was named so)
Who strugling for to wrest his necke already from the band
Did stretch his collar. Scarsly had we let him off of hand
But that where Laelaps was become we could not understand.
The print remained of his feete upon the parched sand,
But he was clearly out of sight. Was never Dart I trow,
Nor Pellet from enforced Sling, nor shaft from Cretish bow,
That flew more swift than he did runne. There was not farre fro thence
About the middle of the Laund a rising ground, from whence
A man might overlooke the fieldes. I gate me to the knap
Of this same hill, and there beheld of this straunge course the hap
In which the beast seemes one while caught, and ere a man would think,
Doth quickly give the Grewnd the slip, and from his bighting shrink:
And like a wilie Foxe he runnes not forth directly out,
Nor makes a windlasse over all the champion fieldes about,
But doubling and indenting still avoydes his enmies lips,
And turning short, as swift about as spinning wheele he whips,
To disapoint the snatch. The Grewnd pursuing at an inch
Doth cote him, never losing ground: but likely still to pinch
Is at the sodaine shifted off. Continually he snatches
In vaine: for nothing in his mouth save only Aire he latches.
Then thought I for to trie what helpe my Dart at neede could show.
Which as I charged in my hand by levell aime to throw,
And set my fingars to the thongs, I lifting from bylow
Mine eies, did looke right forth againe, and straight amids the field
(A wondrous thing) two Images of Marble I beheld:
Of which ye would have thought the t'one had fled on still apace
And that with open barking mouth the tother did him chase.
In faith it was the will of God (at least if any Goddes
Had care of them) that in their pace there should be found none oddes.

-- Ovid, Metamorphoses, Englished by Arthur Golding, 1567


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## spotsonofbun (Jan 3, 2013)

I think the pointer dalmatian cross was amazing and it show's that we shouldn't be so obsessed about closed registres. However it must be taken into considerations that the pointer cross was made by a geneticist that knew how to use genetic diversity to improve the health. To be relatively certain that after he had bred the pointer cross back to the dalmatian to the point that the offsprings were identical to dalmatians but still had that extra gene to make them healthier. 

However hybrid vigour alone doesn't guarantee health, if you have a bad lab and a bad poodle then you are going to get a bad doodle. 

Genetic diversity alone doesn't guarantee health but excessive inbreeding will lead to problems eventually. 

Unfortunately there are a lot of breeds that are in danger because of us, the cavalier's heart problems can be traced to a popular stud dog decades back. 

I think there are several breeds that might benefit from a similar thing like the pointer cross but it has to be done by very knowledgable people to be as confident as possible (you can never be 100% certain) that the benefits of the outcrossing carry's on and makes a difference. It can't be oh because I have mix the cavalier with a poodle it magically won't have a heart murmur pay lots lots for the puppy.


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## julietcr1 (Nov 10, 2012)

If I was a breeder I would post pictures of my poodles in a “doodle” like cut and retriever cut and advertise them as "not a doodle but really smart and non shadding". No more continental cut, puppy cut or any other “old fashion” cut. When people pay hundreds of dollars for a dog they are looking for a good dog but also for a “look” and you can’t blame them for that. Even if you call doodles “mutts” they don’t care, they know they are mutts, they want the “look” not the breed. The majority of poodle breeders and groomers have been grooming poodles the same way for years and years (50 years maybe more?) to the point where people don’t even know they can be groomed a different way, specially men! 

To all breeders on this forum, why do you still show your poodles in cc and other "old fashion" poodle cut?


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

There are just as many poodle breeders out there that are just as terrible as doodle breeders, and while there aren't as many doodle breeders out there that do things right, they do exist.


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## katbrat (May 8, 2011)

Countryboy said:


> The gain is to create a breed that has all the desirable characteristics of a Poodle, but is not characterized as a girly dog. And is therefore a dog that men can own.[/QUOTE
> 
> My six foot tall, Southern born and bred, military husband says all he will ever own is a poodle and it stated with a black and tan, six pound ball of fluff.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

katbrat said:


> My six foot tall, Southern born and bred, military husband says all he will ever own is a poodle and it stated with a black and tan, six pound ball of fluff.


Good for him, eh? 

I'm a six foot tall, ex-hippy . . with a grandson who's allergic to dogs and cats. I'm used to going toe-to-toe with construction superintendents . . and old enuf now to not care too much abt what other people think. If I ever did...  lol

Yr DH and I would probably get on well. U have to be able to take teasing with a big grin.  

But we're few and far between...


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

nu2poodles said:


> The Grewnd pursuing at an inch
> Doth cote him, never losing ground: but likely still to pinch
> Is at the sodaine shifted off. Continually he snatches
> In vaine: for nothing in his mouth save only Aire he latches.
> ...


Hahaha! Sounds just like Tonka chasing Spud!


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## kcp1227 (Jan 25, 2013)

I think if there were some sort of standard that these breeders were working towards, I would be more okay with it. But the never knowing what you're going to get aspect and claiming that they're all hypoallergenic and crap is just plain wrong. At least with a purebred you have a standard to look at and say, yes I'm okay with paying x amount of money because I know what I'm getting. I mean, I think pomapoos are adorable, but I'm not going to go out and buy one. I'd check the shelter. 


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I bought Carley for 50th Birthday. I heard so much negitivity before getting her... I just knew I wanted a big dog that did not shed. I am crazy for the breed now and don't want to ever have any other breed. What could be better??? The one thing I don't like and I continue to hear is that Poodles are old women's dogs. lol I don't like it, but I can see how it might be true. I would not have had the time for my spoos when I was a young mother with children to care for, trying to work ect. 

I did see a black golden doodle the other day that had to be the prettiest thing I have ever seen. It did not look a bit crazy either, but I would still have to say, " No Thanks!"


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

tokipoke said:


> I looked at the mix pictures. It's funny they all look like an overgrown poodle!! Just grow out the face on poodle lol


Exactly, why get a mix if u can have the best dog ever , in any haircut u want?!



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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

I meant no disrespect to any dog by referring to them as mutts. When I grew up any dog that was not a pure bred dog was a mutt. I guess mixed breed is more pc but still don't understand people paying huge amounts of money for any mixed breed dog. 


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## sweetheartsrodeo (Sep 19, 2012)

cowpony said:


> One of my local rescues had a wolfhound standard poodle cross. I seriously wonder what was going through the breeder's mind. The lurcher is a very traditional type in Britain: it's a cross between a sight hound and a scent hound, collie, or terrier. The idea is to produce a dog suitable for hunting hares and such; ideally you get much of the speed and drive of the sight hound with some additional skills from the other breed. But what does a poodle bring to the wolfhound type? And conversely, what does the wolfhound bring to the poodle type? Bird dogs are not one of the traditional types used in lurcher crosses.


There have been many of the wolfhound-poodle crosses in the shelters here... We are also seeing a german shep. poodle cross....


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

100% standard poodle!









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## sweetheartsrodeo (Sep 19, 2012)

nu2poodles said:


> I'm looking at this thread : "http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/31626-theyre-retrievers-right.html"
> 
> I'm using this as an example _only_ (--- there are many possible reasons for why this dog doesn't seem to "get it"); desired quality(-ies) may vary (could be pointing or flushing or hearding, etc.)
> 
> ...


I am so sorry, if something I said made you think I was "doodle bashing". I believe that everyone should have whatever type of dog that makes them happy. My cousin loves her doodle, and I know they went out of state to get him. He makes her beyond happy, and that is what works for her. My point was that it is sad to me to see so many of the doodles ending up in the shelters, or on craigslist, or something because it is such a gamble to know what you will get with the crosses. I mean in no way to disrespect anyone, or their choice of dogs.  It just hurts my heart to know they are being put to sleep because someone didn't have the right information...


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## Cailin77 (Jul 21, 2012)

Have you ever noticed how many doodles end up in shelters? And at least in my area, they usually seem to be 7-18 months and often described as "too much to handle with our kids". Most labradoodles and goldendoodles I have met are really high energy, with really high grooming and exercise needs. Yet, I've often heard them advertised as "great family dogs." Thats really makes me mad- its just setting everyone up for heart brake!


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I can't understand the attraction. I would never pay for one , unless it was a rescue. I think some of them are very cute, but you could get lots of different looks from the same litter. I like to know what I am getting, that is a big part of the reason I prefer adult dogs... no surprises! I also like for someone else to do most of the work for me. lol


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

:aetsch: I'm a MUTT Molly's a MUTT but sticks and stones ya know? I don't care personally, but I hate the fact that people are breeding dogs that, when I was a kid, they gave away FREE! I feel people are being sold a false bill of goods and are being ripped off for huge amounts of money for dogs that will turn out to be a guessing game as what traits they will carry! 

Yeah, I agree that most pure bred dogs came from mixed breedings, but the difference is the care and consideration and years spent in attaining a dog that retained every trait that it was bred for. What is being done now is just 'greedy breeding'! 

I was lucky with Molly but I know she's a one-of-a-kind that can't be replicated without cloning Hahahaha!!!!! GOD, I LOVE MY MUTT!!!!  I just can't think of a good name for her 'breed' LOL!


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I know the perfect name for Molly's breed. A Dollypoo!


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## Cailin77 (Jul 21, 2012)

MollyMuiMa said:


> :aetsch: I'm a MUTT Molly's a MUTT but sticks and stones ya know?


I suspect that Brody isn't 100% poodle. He was originally rescued as a puppy in SC- to me that suggests he came from a puppy mill. I think he's mostly poodle, but has another breed or two somewhere in his background. Of course I love him just as much! 

When I was looking for a dog I was open to poodle mixes, if it was the right mix. I was looking for a rescue dog, so I wasn't going to be lining any breeder's pocket.


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## Poodlelvr (Mar 13, 2010)

I think that what is wrong with the doodles is that they are oversold to gullible people. The "breeders" have no real idea how the puppies will turn out. The buyers are into the latest craze, but if their designer dog doesn't turn out the way they hoped, it ends up in rescue. Even though I do not want another dog at this point, I still look at Pet Finder sometimes. There are groups called "Oodles of Doodles." It is sad--so many young dogs in rescue.


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## cliffdweller (Jan 31, 2011)

Poodlemama99 said:


> ... still don't understand people paying huge amounts of money for any mixed breed dog.


As I've said before, they're _all_ mixed breeds at some point in time, & this is not the _end_ of time.

I fail to see why anyone should pay huge amounts for "pure-bred" dogs, all else being equal. 

It's been admitted by many that shoddy breeding practices are as prevalent among those who breed "pure-breds" (primarily for $$) as they are among those who breed cross-breds (primarily for $$). If any of these breeders really cared a great deal about the _dogs_, they would take the money out of the equation and breed only to better the breed, pure or crossed (as many field-dog people do). That would surely contribute to separating the wheat from the chaff.


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## Cailin77 (Jul 21, 2012)

I think I saw a Bernadoodle yesterday. I'm not 100% certain, because I was too busy trying to keep Brody (who isn't very big for a mini) from being crushed to ask! I'm pretty sure it was though, because it had St Benard coloring, and a poodle like wave to its coat. It was very big and gangly, but I think he/she was pretty young. I think he/she was actually taller than a St Bernard, but not as bulky. Isn't it strange how so many doodles (at least the ones I've seen) end up taller than either of the original breeds?


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

All you have to do is look at the original breeds and then the mixes. I will never understand why people would pay money for the mix when you can find the same thing for free/near free by the dozen in shelters everywhere. Makes absolutely no sense to me. If you really want a nondescript dog, please do those shelter dogs a favor and give them a home.


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## cliffdweller (Jan 31, 2011)

sweetheartsrodeo said:


> I am so sorry, if something I said made you think I was "doodle bashing". ...


My reference to "doodle bashing" was general, as many comments in threads such as this amount to just that ...



sweetheartsrodeo said:


> ... My point was that it is sad to me to see so many of the doodles ending up in the shelters, or on craigslist, or something because it is such a gamble to know what you will get with the crosses. ... It just hurts my heart to know they are being put to sleep because someone didn't have the right information..


I'm not sure there are more Doodles than Poodles in shelters or rescues. Though not scientific or sufficient to prove anything, I counted listings for Poodles vs Doodles on 20pp of Petfinder (obviously, some Doodles might be listed as Poodles and _vice versa_), in different areas of the country. The count was (roughly) 281 listings for Poodles and 237 listings for Doodles (Poodle crosses of various configurations).

I hear this complaint fairly often in this type of thread. But, so far, I have seen nothing to support the claim that Doodles are more subject to rescue than Poodles. Perhaps someone has more accurate information ? 

There may be many reasons for so many dogs being in shelters and rescues. Unless someone can show definitively that there are more Doodles than Poodles needing homes, there is no basis for the complaint that people are disappointed with the unpredictability of Poodle crosses.

Lots of people get dogs of all kinds, for all kinds of wrong reasons, and not realizing the commitment owning a dog requires.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Yeah I don't know of any statistics of which breeds frequent the shelters more, although I'm sure the shelters keep them, but I do know that where I've lived in Northern BC and Alberta, and here in Southern BC now you can never find a poodle or a doodle in the shelters (before I got my girls, I looked). Makes me wonder if some organization should export some from shelters in the U.S. up here for adoption (there is an organization that exports pit bulls from kill shelters in L.A. up here and adopts them out), if there is a problem finding rescue homes in the U.S. Oh and by the way, they're not free or nearly free here to adopt from shelters, it's $350 - $400. I don't know why so expensive, I guess just less donations come in here for shelters, or maybe less subsidization? I've had lots of mixed breeds in the past and loved them very much...but I do have to say, if poodle breeders put a few dogs in kennel clips or sporting clips on their web pages that would be nice but I sure do love to see the CC or HCC too...those powerful hind legs are so beautiful on a well-bred poodle.


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## kcp1227 (Jan 25, 2013)

nu2poodles said:


> Lots of people get dogs of all kinds, for all kinds of wrong reasons, and not realizing the commitment owning a dog requires.


This is my biggest issue, no matter what kind of dog a person is getting. I get so any new customers who have their cute little puppies, who after a few months or year decide they can't handle them anymore. Didn't realize their dog needed to be brushed or groomed as often as it does (and I'm talking all higher maintenance breeds) or the dog isn't house training immediately and they start talking about finding it another home. I also have customers that are constantly rehoming dogs only to get a new one. The behavior makes me sick, but what are you supposed to do?


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## cliffdweller (Jan 31, 2011)

Indiana said:


> ... Oh and by the way, they're not free or nearly free here to adopt from shelters, it's $350 - $400. I don't know why so expensive...


When I was seeking a rescue (long story, without success), I had the feeling that some "rescues" were really fronts for puppy mills ~~~ ... some puppies were offered for adoption at $800 on Petfinder, and the questionable "rescues" _always_ had puppies ...


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Yikes! I was talking about the SPCA here charging $350 to $400, but that reminds me! I heard this story on the news about a so-called rescue in Vancouver that was actually stealing dogs and re-homing them for big fees! Can you imagine; guess there are lots of strange people out there and some love dogs


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## kcp1227 (Jan 25, 2013)

nu2poodles said:


> When I was seeking a rescue (long story, without success), I had the feeling that some "rescues" were really fronts for puppy mills ~~~ ... some puppies were offered for adoption at $800 on Petfinder, and the questionable "rescues" _always_ had puppies ...


Yikes!!


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## AngelsMommy (Nov 3, 2012)

nu2poodles said:


> As I've said before, they're *all* mixed breeds at some point in time, & this is not the *end* of time.
> 
> *I fail to see why anyone should pay huge amounts for "pure-bred" dogs, all else being equal.*


I agree that all breeds started as quite different than they are now, but they were breed at some point for a purpose. For some that purpose no longer exists. But they went through things to get that *purpose* fulfilled in that dog. But most of us hopefully would not longer be willing to do all of the things that used to be done to dogs to accomplish such breeding. Such as culling the pups with a ruthlessness that I find appalling, but that was the norm for the times. In some breeds that is still done. Fortunately now we have testing. That is what hopefully is being done to improve the breeds nowadays. 

I have poodles because they have a trait that for me is needful, to have any kind of a dog long term. They do not shed. At least not like most furred breeds. I have tried with my fostering efforts to see if I can handle other types of dogs and for me, the answer is no, for more than just a very short term. 

So if this is an all things being equal, which I am not sure what you meant by that, then I have to have a purebred or no dog at all. Which for me is not a happy option. 

I know why caring breeders get angry over what they see as uncaring about dog breeding. They are willing to spend time and lots of money to check out all of the possible traits that their dogs might pass on and work to see that they only pass on the positive ones.

Dogs that you know the genome type and traits are needful to children with allergies. I was one of those. I have out grown some but not all of my issues. Poodles allow me to have a wonderful companion. I have tried hard to see if I can have other rescues, but for me no. I would give a place for all of them if I were able. 

I know that caring purebred breeders may seem to be in it for the money when you are paying so much for a puppy. But considering the costs of testing and quality dogs to breed, trust me they are not. The ones that are are in it for only money are the ones that do not test and just breed to breed regardless. But still ask the price of a tested animal. 

But there are many breeders both purebred and doodle just out to make a fast buck. The breeding of doodles has become just another fad, which will pass just like the other dog fads have done. And they will go on to the next hot breed. I remember all of the dalmatians in the shelters when they had the movie when I was a child. They ended up there because the buyers had no idea what they were getting, only that their child wanted *THAT* puppy! 

This is a hard issue on a poodle forum and I know there will always be folks that disagree, but I hope that we can all play together and have fun. And sometimes just agree to disagree! :deal:


Hopefully we all have the best thing in mind for our poodles, be they mutt or purebred, show quality or byb bred. I know that I would do anything for my baby. :love2:


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Indiana said:


> Yikes!I heard this story on the news about a so-called rescue in Vancouver that was actually stealing dogs and re-homing them for big fees!


I suppose that will happen more and more, eh? Even scammers tryin' to make a living flogging puppies would be better off calling themselves something like Angel's Wings Rescue than Cruella's Discount Dalmatians.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Countryboy said:


> I suppose that will happen more and more, eh? Even scammers tryin' to make a living flogging puppies would be better off calling themselves something like Angel's Wings Rescue than Cruella's Discount Dalmatians.


Yeah, no kidding. Here's the link Global BC | Two women from A Better Life Dog Rescue charged with stealing a Coquitlam pet


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## AngelsMommy (Nov 3, 2012)

Indiana said:


> Yeah, no kidding. Here's the link Global BC | Two women from A Better Life Dog Rescue charged with stealing a Coquitlam pet


OMG! I went and read the link and I am appalled! I have often wondered about the rehome fees on some sites and I have heard rumors in the rescue community, but this is terrible. I did hear of someone who was "rescuing" pets with no authority, but they thought that it was something they "should" do because the dog was outside all day....
So sad. 

One more reason I am glad that my Angel is with me 98% of the time.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Oh Yes! Here you can adopt a dog from County Animal Services that has been spayed/neutered and given all it's shots and a exam for $69.00 ($35.00 if you are a senior or disabled or if the animal is 5+ yrs old) I counted 15 mpoo & mpoo X's on their site today! What is happening here is the 'rescuers' go and 'buy' the best ones and turn around and 'rehome' them for a min. 250.00 to 450.00 . That isn't to say there aren't legitimate rescues but craigslist so full of expensive re-homes & so called 'rescues' it's sad!


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## Lene (Jan 18, 2013)

The other day I browsed our local RSPCA site... They had a 2 months old puppy for rehoming for $600... It was of an uncertain breed...

I paid $1000 for Storm... He's on open papers, so I can breed him, show him or anything else I want to do... He's got a terrific temperament... Just to clarify, I'm not going to breed or show him... He's purely a pet.,..

The RSPCA charge you money for taking in dogs, and then they sell them for such a large amount of money... They also have a shop connected to their site, and their merchandise is 10% more expensive than the price my vet is selling them for...


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

sweetheartsrodeo said:


> On one of my yahoo poodle list, a lady joined, and said her doodle (not sure what kind of doodle as she never said) could stand up to the rigor of showing, and was better than any poodle... This caused a huge nasty email war, and it made me wonder... I don't think that these people see their "doodles" as muts. Now, also let me back up to say, that I think anyone who rescues or adopts a pup that is part poodle is amazing.. anyone that adopt, or rescues any breed is amazing, and I don't believe that the dog that they rescued should be termed "mutt," even though it does not have pure genetic lines... But I don't understand how people can breed these dogs knowing that so many of them are ending up in the shelters, and being put to sleep.  It breaks my heart to think about it....


I agree with you a 100%. I own a yorki-doodle/poodle/poo or whatever else they call it and I love her to death. But I always tell people she's a mutt when they ask, and I've had some other doodle owners look at me like I just insulted them or as if I don't love my dog. Fact of the matter is they are mutts - and I love my mutt. I rescued her from a puppy mill situation in VA 6 years ago as a puppy and with her last round of puppy shots my vet recommended I breed her because she had such a nice personality. My jaw dropped and I never visited that vet again and Ponki was spayed shortly after. Regardless of whether she had a nice personality or not... to me breeding a mutt (and one that was later diagnosed with a long list of health issues) is just pure insanity... not to mention all these poor dogs that are bred for profit.

And the only dog I'd pay $2500 for is a high quality show dog that can produce champion offspring... for a mutt?!? That mutt better poop gold!


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

> And the only dog I'd pay $2500 for is a high quality show dog that can produce champion offspring... for a mutt?!? That mutt better poop gold!


Hahaha. Yes I agree!! I think it's rediculous to pay so much money for an untested, un-papered dog! I have clients who get doodles and one in particular who got an "Australian doodle" that she had to fly here from California about a month ago. I know she paid more then I paid for my show poodle with papers and champion blood lines and all the genetic testings. She never saw the parents the breeders nor the place the puppy was bred, and had no idea how often she needed to bring her puppy in for grooming or how much. I know she can afford to take care of this puppy and she will get regular grooming and great care, but the most common complaint I get from doodle owners is how expensive our grooming prices are and that their "breeder" says that their dogs are shedless and only require grooming about every 6 months!!!! It drives me NUTS! I always say, can you imagine going 6 months without brushing your hair or taking a shower? Lol




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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

*Off topic here*...Just piping in to say I've had the heartwarming privilege to be involved in or privy to some PCA-affiliated Rescue groups good works. I've seen these rescues step in and finance testing for poodles that weren't in their rescue. I've witnessed them moving heaven and earth to expedite getting a poodle out of a household where it was in jeopardy, or posing a hardship on the owner. I've seen them network like mad to provide long distance transportation in quick order to facilitate a rescue. And I've seen the magic a devoted foster home can bring about in saving a poodle. I've also seen rescuers dig deep and quietly into their own pockets, willingly forgoing reimbursement to help a poodle in need. And I've watched in wonder as a kind rescue representative stood by to help ease an owner's sorrow at having to surrender her poodle, arranging for her to have ongoing contact with the new owners. I realize I'm not offering any real new (or perhaps even relevant) information here, we all know there's good and bad and generous and greedy in all walks of life. I segued off topic I know, my "excuse" is at my age my thoughts are rather random and I don't hold my tongue so well. Though I have matured sufficiently so as not to stick it out quite as often.:focus:


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

hunny518 said:


> Most common complaint I get from doodle owners is how expensive our grooming prices are and that their "breeder" says that their dogs are shedless and only require grooming about every 6 months!!!! It drives me NUTS! I always say, can you imagine going 6 months without brushing your hair or taking a shower?


I think a lot of doodle breeders bamboozle people into buying doodles... they tell buyers all kinds of fairy tails which make it seem that doodles are flawless because of the "cross".
I've heard some stories about what doodle breeders have told doodle owners/buyers that could fill up a dictionary that I'd happily call the 'doodle joke book'.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I also believe they use the term "rescue" and "rehome" since Craigslist (I think) prohibits selling animals on the site. More and more I see very young pups advertised as "rehomes" and know they are BYB's just trying to sell their dogs. I usually flag those posts. Very disconcerting.


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