# go with advice or go raw



## Vanilla-Yazoo (Jun 2, 2013)

Heya everyone!
Just a little something I am pondering about,

The breeder of my toy poodle puppy Billy feeds a part tinned part kibble diet to her poodles, she has tried over many years with different brands, price ranges ect and knows what hers will eat.

I have planned for a while I want to feed raw (minces, not prey mode) but I dont know if I should wait till he is adult, or swap as a puppy, I trust his breeder and her knowledge.
I will get about a months worth when I collect him, and a diet sheet with everything he has liked and will eat.

part of me really wants to go with what she feeds, its tried and tested, and her dogs look amazing on it, part says go with raw because its as natural as possible. I know my family think the raw feeding is being ott with things, and will prefer the breeder's diet, so maybe go onto raw after moving when he is over a year old, where I will be able to dedicate a freezer to his raw food and not worry about the space.

I am going to vaccine every 3 years (she also agree's) and I will use Diatomaceous earth for worming/flea's, so will try to keep Billy as chemical free as I can.

Thank you for your thoughts on this!
Rebecca x


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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

Vanilla-Yazoo said:


> Heya everyone!
> Just a little something I am pondering about,
> 
> The breeder of my toy poodle puppy Billy feeds a part tinned part kibble diet to her poodles, she has tried over many years with different brands, price ranges ect and knows what hers will eat.
> ...


May I ask why not prey model? Ground up meat has less taurine than whole pieces and doesn't help the dog's teeth. You would need to supplement whereas with prey model you do not need to. Unless your dog has very little teeth or problems chewing like mine it just seems odd. I wish I could do prey model with Kennedy. Take no offense, I'm just wondering.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

By the sound of it you are still living with your parentsand family? Under the circumstances, I would follow the breeder's advice until you leave home, and then go raw if you still want to. Balancing a puppy diet is more complex and more critical than getting it right for an adult, and may be an anxiety you do not need with a new puppy. And if your family are not keen on the idea they are likely to moan about it, which is also not much fun. I prefer to know exactly what mine are eating, and have fed them raw/home cooked for some years, but I bend a little to others prejudices, and don't ask them to feed the raw meals if they are uncomfortable with raw tripe and chicken wings!


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## Vanilla-Yazoo (Jun 2, 2013)

Jamie hein: I am very worried over Billy hurting himself on a bone, I will feed lamb rib bones once-twice a week but I am not yet confident enough for a full prey mode diet.

Fjm: thank you, thata what ive been trying to work out, I dont want to cause damage especially as a puppy, so swapping him over after the move when I dont have to worry about anyone feeding him the wrong thing after the swap and when I can do it with no one telling me its silly.
You are completey right about the anxiety too, I will worry myself silly over getting the balance perfect!


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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

Vanilla-Yazoo said:


> Jamie hein: I am very worried over Billy hurting himself on a bone, I will feed lamb rib bones once-twice a week but I am not yet confident enough for a full prey mode diet.
> 
> Fjm: thank you, thata what ive been trying to work out, I dont want to cause damage especially as a puppy, so swapping him over after the move when I dont have to worry about anyone feeding him the wrong thing after the swap and when I can do it with no one telling me its silly.
> You are completey right about the anxiety too, I will worry myself silly over getting the balance perfect!


The lamb rib bones would be fine in a prey model raw diet if other types of bone makes you nervous. But I liked Fjm's answer.


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

I started feeding raw when Jazz was about nine months old, and I worried even then about getting the balance right. (She's eighteen months now, and I still weigh and measure, but I'm one of those who consider OCD a good thing.) I wouldn't have been comfortable starting raw with a young pup.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I feed commercial raw since I too worry about getting the balance right. I do also feed Swizzle raw bones which he loves. I think FJM's advice is very sensible and may be less stressful for you. I urge you to re-consider raw bones. Toys are very susceptible to teeth issues and bones are wonderful for teeth. I feed a chicken neck every other day and the vet always comments what clean teeth Swizzle has.


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## Vanilla-Yazoo (Jun 2, 2013)

Jamie hein: thank you, when I start raw later I will deffo gve at least lamb ribs, I might be ok with a chicken wing but anything hard or spikey worry me.

Judyd: thank you, think that is a good way of doing it, its a big worry getting it right for a puppy. If I did prey mode or lots of rmb I would get very ocd too! He would be about 14-18 months when I move, so will be adult so a bit less to worry over!

Ctgirl: thank you, I think I will follow fjm's advice and swap later, I will get better with bones with time, I am sure once he has had a few ribs and things I will work up, I know they have bad teeth so I do want to give things to help.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I'm lazy, but, if I were in your situation I'd just use a nice premade raw that is complete and balanced! I am actually weaning a litter of standard poodle puppies using a premade raw.


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## Vanilla-Yazoo (Jun 2, 2013)

charismaticmillie: thank you, I would like to use the nutriment puppy raw diet over here in the uk, should I go for a full raw diet as a pup, it is balanced, but I dont know how well he will take to it. (I would first test him to the ones from the pet shop that have 8-10% bone, to see if theres anything he will take to taste wise)

I think it will be less stressful to let him grow on his breeder's diet then I will swap him when I feel its the right time.


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

You'll have to just try it out. Go ahead and start now since you're interested in feeding raw.

I have fed just about every way to feed except vegetarian. I fed raw in varying forms for several years, mostly before I had kids. First, it can be a lot of work if you do it from scratch (pre made minces will be much easier). It can be messy. I did Prey Model Raw for a while and 2 dogs break carnassials on recommended "soft" chicken bones. Two dogs on the same day and one again on a different day many months later because "I" felt like a raw diet was "the best." Secondly, it doesn't agree with every dog- I lost coat on some (I have 4 dogs), I have a battle with keeping stools firm with a couple as well, and one has full blown diarrhea (cannon butt) if he eats even a tiny tidbit of raw. No amount of slow and gradual introductions to raw agree with him. At all.

The most important thing in your journey into feeding a dog is: listen to the dog. how is their skin? their coat? Digestion? Ears? Stool? Any gas/burping? Most of the time it takes 2 weeks or less to see how they will handle digestion, and a month or more to see what happens to coat. 
PMR (meat/bone/organ only) destroyed 3 of my 4 dogs' coats (various breeds), not to mention the broken teeth and cannon butt.

Barf was a little better, but grinding meat and making veggie slop was very time consuming and messy for my current lifestyle. Jack can't eat raw at all, so that is out for him, not even going to bother trying.

I ended up back with a quality, simple kibble (50%) and the rest home cooked (crock potted meats plus veggies at a ratio of about 70/30). I add calcium with Animal Essentials Sea Calcium to balance the phosphorus in the meat and veggies.
They get fish, yogurt, and supplements according to each dog's needs and everyone truly thrives on this way of feeding. I do brush teeth since I no longer offer bones.

it works for me. It might not work for you. Premade raw might be best for your guy, you just have to try it and see. And then, try not to listen to too many internet guru's, because every time I do, I end up with dogs whose bodies are clearly telling me "no way, ma!"
(The Honest Kitchen was our latest disaster and I'm still trying to get coats to come back from that.)

Anyway, sorry so long, I love crock potting for the dogs and I'm a huge dog food nerd. LOL
HTH


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## Vanilla-Yazoo (Jun 2, 2013)

Shamrockmommy: thank you, you have given a lot of good advice here, I try to think of each dog and home as an individual, the idea of raw is what appeals to me, but there is so much I worry over too. I think it is deffo something I will try, maybe not when he first comes home (late feb-march, maybe when he is 4-6 months old and more developed)

His breeder has tried other kibbles and tinned with hers over years and knows what they will eat, but I would rather feed a more natural diet if Billy will eat it.

I often order from zoo plus which is a german site that delivers to the uk, I have had a look on there and found an organic tinned food called Hermann's I like the sound of. 
400g Hermann's Organic Menu Cans 5 + 1 Free | Free P&P on orders £25+ at zooplus!
"All meat in Hermanns dog food comes from organic farms where animals are humanely raised and slaughtered - love for animals is not limited to dogs" is their policy, and they do a gluten&grain free turkey and veg. 

If he likes a bit of tinned and kibble then I would be happier feeding this along with a grain free kibble such as acana( or the lily's kitchen range also on zoo plus) if I was unable to feed raw. I will see how he reacts to it, when he comes home I will make sure he is fully settled before changing his diet about, hopefully he will take to something I like!


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## Vanilla-Yazoo (Jun 2, 2013)

another little question, if I was feeding kibble and tinned (the breeder's or grain free ones) would it be safe to give the lamb rib bones? or would it be more likely to upset his tummy?
I am thinking when he is about 4-6 months then I shall try him on a few different things, swapping over a few days to see how he takes to it.
thank you 
x


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

It can be a tricky call - pups that have only been fed one food for months can get a tummy upset from changes, hence the advice to change over gradually. I think I would try the occasional meaty bone to replace a meal (assuming you are not going completely over to a homemade diet) - I'd choose ones with not too much fat, and watch his reactions. Bigger lamb bones come under the heading of recreational in our house - bones that provide much less than a meal's worth of calories, but are enjoyable to chew and (I hope!) help keep their teeth clean. I think you are wise to wait until he has settled in before making too many changes - you will by then have a good idea of his usual BM routine, and (sorry!) the colour and texture to expect.


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## Vanilla-Yazoo (Jun 2, 2013)

thank you  I know what you mean about pups tummies, so I will try things gently see how he goes, I was thinking the morrisons lamb bones for stewing, normally ribs and such, will make sure they are not too fatty, and rib bones are fairly soft, I hope itl help with keeping his teeth in good condition. I will be doing brushing too, and giving a kong with some scrambled egg and things in 
I am hoping his toilets will be better then the springers are! 

I will order a few tins of the grain free turkey veg and apple tinned, and a small 1kg bag of the kibble, even if he took to one and not the other I would be happier feeding him a tinned or dry grain free/free from rubbish diet. 
I can then try raw after moving and there will be less rubbish to detox from


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

Yeah, in my experience, I've also had trouble with puppy tummies, so if they are doing well on what they are currently eating, I'd stick with that for a good while and slowly introduce any changes once the pup is fully accustomed to your house and routine and such.

I've been experimenting with Jack (and my 3 other dogs) food and wound up with unhappy tummies. Glad they are on the mend now, phew!


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Do make sure all bones are only raw! No cooked bones of any kind. My dog loves lamb ribs - chews them to nothing. I usually give him 3 or 4 still hooked together to work on. He chews till all the meat, bone, everything is gone.


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