# How to get started?



## AngelAviary (Aug 12, 2014)

I don't remember if you've posted about any experience with owning Poodles already so I am answering as if you have not owned one in the past. 
There are many ways to get into Poodles. I think you should concentrate on going to shows, meeting and talking with as many breeders/owners as you can and learn the breed. Learn the ins and outs, the ups and downs. Learn what makes a perfect Standard Poodle. Find a breeder that is well known and respected and make this person your mentor. You need to learn about health issues, the importance of health testing and proper temperament. 
Obtaining show quality dogs is important, why get into a breed without the desire to improve it with each generation. You should show your dogs, prove they are good enough to produce the next generation and that you are serious about bettering the breed as a whole! Your ideal dog is pretty, sure they all are, but are they also smart, healthy, friendly, athletic. These are the qualities of a great Standard Poodle. They should be well rounded and a great family pet. 
You really should not be thinking about breeding for at least a handful of years, lots of things to accomplish with your dogs and in furthering your experience with the breed as a whole. 
I hope this helps answer some of your questions.


----------



## RylieJames (Feb 3, 2016)

Where do I find out where to go for shows? I went to shows many years ago when I lived in Florida. But I moved and now I really live in kinda the middle of nowhere. How do I find the nearest shows in my area?


----------



## RylieJames (Feb 3, 2016)

AngelAviary said:


> You really should not be thinking about breeding for at least a handful of years, lots of things to accomplish with your dogs and in furthering your experience with the breed as a whole.
> I hope this helps answer some of your questions.


I have some follow up questions. I'm just confused and frustrated. 

Why should I not be considering breeding dogs yet? It is something I've been considering doing for many years as it is. Now I am finally in a position financially and personally that I can do it.

And how can I accomplish things with my dogs first, if you're suggesting I need to wait a handful of years? Breeders won't sell you show dogs for the confirmation ring unless you're already established. So a breeder will only sell me a "pet-quality" (hate that term) dog--with limited registration--and then I can't show or breed it.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

You can check on the AKC and UKC websites. They will have event calendars that you can search.


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I agree there is something of a catch 22, but I think the key is to find a good breeder who you can work with, and convince them that you have what it takes to succeed with one of their pups. That will mean knowing exactly what your breeding goals are (show, performance, both), and being prepared to prove your pup in the relevant fields. Yes, it means several years' preparatory work, but a Spoo pup will not be ready to breed before two years old in any case (and socialising one puppy is a tiny introduction to the work involved in raising a whole litter!). Your mentor will be able to advise on the best stud, and have the contacts to help you move forward if and when you want to expand your programme. 

There is a lot to consider beyond the mechanics of genetics and breeding. Keeping a poodle in show coat is not for the faint hearted, especially through the dreaded coat change. In the UK the maximum number of litters that can be registered from one dam is four, and she cannot be bred after the age of 8 - what are your plans when it is time to retire her? Do you have a full-scale veterinary hospital within reach in case of an emergency? Do you have back up if you are incapacitated just as a litter needs you most? And those are just a few of the considerations!


----------



## RylieJames (Feb 3, 2016)

Yeah, its a real catch 22 and that is what frustrates me. And I know it takes a couple of years before you can breed a standard. But my point is that you have to get the pup in the first place before you can train and show it.

I've done the dog show thing in the past. Granted, it was years ago--but it wasn't a very welcoming experience. Don't get me wrong--I loved seeing the poodles compete. But in terms of being able to find a mentor in the room, it just wasn't happening.

I don't want to say anything disparaging about particular breeders--but general the sense I got from ones I spoke with was that I was not part of the "in crowd" because I didn't have any proven track record. I guess I was just not lucky enough to find a breeder willing to take me under their wing.

And I have certainly given it a lot of thought--its not something I've decided on a whim. I've been studying/researching poodles for over 18 years. And I owned my baby pictured below for almost 15 years. I had her in a show coat when she was young--yes it is a lot of work and sometimes it gets old & tiring, but I do usually enjoy maintaining their coats. As far as retiring dams, they would stay with me--they're part of my family. And yes, I live only a few minutes away from one of the best animal hospitals in the country.

But anyway... this is all just very discouraging.


----------



## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

Hi there; I'm not sure if i saw your intro lost, but welcome to Poodle Forum regardless.

I have also considered the possibility of breeding (though it will be far far far in the future when I have the time and resources to fully devote to it - at least another 15 years or so)

I think the fact that you have prior experience showing is a very good thing, and something that other breeders will find valuable. The proximity to an excellent vet hospital is also a bonus, but simply being nearby is not an immediate guarantee to a fellow breeder that your dogs will be well taken care of. I also live near a teaching hospital and there are dozens of emaciated and ill animals at the local shelter.

In case it might help you, I'll share my "far away future" plan. Attend any and all shows that I can in order to meet established breeders and owners of Spoos. There is a lot of variation in them despite the breed standard, and I'd like to be able to tell for myself what a well-coformed, well-coated dog actually looks like. Once I feel I know that, my next step would be to devise a breeding goal. What would your ideal dog be? How do you plan to get to that ideal? What are things you absolutely do not want? How will you avoid those?

Armed with this knowledge (probably made publicly available on a website despite the fact that I'm unlikely to even own the prospective breeding dogs), I would then approach breeders that have the type of dog that I'd like to produce. Talk with them about your goals and plans, and find one that most aligns with your goals and ask them to be your mentor. 

You'll likely get your first puppy from them, and they can guide you through the process of raising, showing, selecting the best mate for your goals, etc. I plan to start small, with one female dog, and possibly expand. There's always the chance that I'll hate showing and breeding and will want to quit, and then I'd be stuck with several show quality dogs that are wasted as housepets.

There are "general" dog breeding things that I didn't include, such as always being prepared to keep every puppy in a prospective litter if you can't find them acceptable homes, what age to breed and what tests to perform, but they are easily found elsewhere. 

There are also several excellent breeders that are members of this forum. Perhaps one of them might be willing to speak with you from a more experienced position?

Best of luck,
Rachael


----------



## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I wouldn't be discouraged. You have show experience and money, now you have to find a breeder/mentor who will sell you the show quality bitch. Poodle Variety is the Poodle show magazine and I recommend it. This month's issue is The Stud issue, for example, and all the top breeders have gorgeous ads for their boys. I agree that you have to break into that breeder's circle somehow. Join PCA, call and visit breeders and sell yourself plus make an offer they can't refuse. Maybe you can co-own. It is a Catch 22. Breeders are protective of their lines and rightly so. Best of luck.


----------



## sidewinder (Feb 3, 2016)

My question would be "Why do you want to breed poodles?" When I was actively breeding and showing, I did have a few people approach me looking for a bitch because they wanted to breed. This approach is a signal for a good breeder to RUN the other way fast away from this person! None of us, who have spent years developing a line, and caring for our doggie kids wants to place one into a situation where the only thing the person wants the dog for is breeding and selling puppies. I'm not saying that's who you are...just what the perception of you may be. If you want a dog from a good breeder, who will mentor you and sell you a foundation bitch, you have to be ready to jump thru the hoops and prove to them that you are worthy. Be willing to co-own with the breeder, and to prove the dog in some kind of competition.

I started off with a male, and finished his AKC championship before I was deemed worthy of a bitch.


----------



## AngelAviary (Aug 12, 2014)

When I posted my reply you had not written that you had owned a Standard for 15 yrs. That is a very big plus that alot of breeders will be happy to hear. You know the ins and out of the breed and have some experience with coat maintenance. 
Dont be discouraged, alot of breeders Will sell you a show quality dog, they will just prob. do a co-ownership with you and have requirements that you have to fulfill in regards to competing. I definitely think it is going to be easier to get a male right away but you never know. I know Jacknic kennels here in Michigan has replied to another member that she has sold show quality bitches to new people in the breed but she does have requirements. Because you have to start somewhere to become a somebody! 
Join your local Poodle club (I know you said you live in the middle of no where) but there are Poodle clubs all over. Just Google Poodle clubs in your state. They will be a great source for finding a mentor and knowing where the shows are going to be.


----------



## RylieJames (Feb 3, 2016)

sidewinder said:


> My question would be "Why do you want to breed poodles?" When I was actively breeding and showing, I did have a few people approach me looking for a bitch because they wanted to breed. This approach is a signal for a good breeder to RUN the other way fast away from this person! None of us, who have spent years developing a line, and caring for our doggie kids wants to place one into a situation where the only thing the person wants the dog for is breeding and selling puppies. I'm not saying that's who you are...just what the perception of you may be. If you want a dog from a good breeder, who will mentor you and sell you a foundation bitch, you have to be ready to jump thru the hoops and prove to them that you are worthy. Be willing to co-own with the breeder, and to prove the dog in some kind of competition.
> 
> I started off with a male, and finished his AKC championship before I was deemed worthy of a bitch.


I don't understand why such an inquiry would warrant such a reaction? A person expressing interest in breeding poodles is a bad thing? The fact that the person is seeking out a good reputable breeder with healthy lines indicates that they actually care about the health of the pups and overall improvement of the breed. To be frank, it is really easy to get a bitch from a puppy mill without restrictions on breeding. In my searches, I've come across many of these.

Could you explain more about what you mean by co-own? It may be the lawyer in me, but I'm weary of joint ventures--they rarely end well and often hurt relationships.

What would you then suggest as the best approach a breeder without turning them off?

And, last, a technical AKC question: is it possible to do a limited registration on a pup initially and then have the breeder release the dog for breeding later?


----------



## WildPriscilla (Nov 19, 2015)

sidewinder said:


> I started off with a male, and finished his AKC championship before I was deemed worthy of a bitch.


I would like to become a breeder too, far into the future however. I started out by going to dog shows and talking to poodle judges and very well known breeders. Even though I don't have a show prospect yet, I've been offered a show quality male by three different breeders in less than six months time, but due to a family crisis I couldn't accept a dog during that time.

All of the breeders and judges I spoke to told me to start off with co-owning a male, do the work required to show and finish the dog and only then will I be taken seriously by breeders. It's very easy to find a show quality male and many people start off with a male as sidewinder mentioned. That will show breeders you are serious about what you want to do, from there you can always ask for a show quality female back from a litter your male sired and you'll be well on your way. 

Co owning a dog means that you have partial ownership of the dog and the breeder can take the dog back if you don't follow the agreement... usually the agreement states that you will show the dog to a certain point and if not that the dog is either returned to the breeder or altered.

As far as limited registration, I believe that could be done, but that would be part of a co-ownership agreement. You could always find a breeder that will sell you a dog without any co-ownership, but I personally wouldn't want a dog from such a breeder because I would question the quality of the dog. No breeder worth having a puppy from will just sell you a dog for breeding purposes without a contract.


----------

