# Toy Breeder -



## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I'd say your best bet to meet your specific criteria is to contact your local, regional or the national Poodle Club and speak to the breeder referral person/s. Your criteria is understandable and those folks will have best knowledge of what you're asking. 

Finding a puppy on the ground unaccounted for is very unlikely but has happened. Deposits and waitlists are handled as the breeders choose. 

PCA National Breeder Referral - The Poodle Club of America 

Search for Local Clubs/Breeders - The Poodle Club of America


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## minimoon (Aug 4, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> I'd say your best bet to meet your specific criteria is to contact your local, regional or the national Poodle Club and speak to the breeder referral person/s. Your criteria is understandable and those folks will have best knowledge of what you're asking.
> 
> Finding a puppy on the ground unaccounted for is very unlikely but has happened. Deposits and waitlists are handled as the breeders choose.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Rose. And thanks for listening to me vent.  I decided against the cream girl based on what my gut was telling me and will go from there. There is a certain breeder who I really like, it's just hard to feel like you put all this time and hope into something that may not happen, then you have to basically start over with either that same breeder (and wait) or someone else. 

Thanks so much for the links. Take care!


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

You're welcome . 

The waiting is definitely tough. One other thing I'm reminded to mention from other members experiences is to clarify with the breeder what their wait process is once there is a mutual commitment. Some are very communicative, sending photos and updates, some respond eventually and succinctly, some are even less communicative until you get the Your puppy is ready call/text/email. 

If you don't mind saying what part of the country you're in or how far you'll travel to meet the breeder and poodles, there might be some specific breeders someone will know of. Every so often someone hears something while on their own quest.


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## TK9NY (Jan 6, 2017)

minimoon said:


> There is a certain breeder who I really like, it's just hard to feel like you put all this time and hope into something that may not happen, then you have to basically start over with either that same breeder (and wait) or someone else.


I feel you. 100%. It's a huge risk to put everything into hoping that a planned litter turns out what you want....but unfortunately most reputable breeders start taking deposits and setting up waiting lists before they even breed. It's NOT all that common to find puppies on the ground. 

And it's totally understandable why they do it that way - they want to be sure they have homes for the puppies lined up so they don't have to scramble to find them when puppies are born. 

Anyway Limerick, my cream, was supposed to be a silver. I specifically sought out this breeder because she had silvers and was planning two silver litters. She's also friends with Dublin's breeder (my other standard) and came highly recommended. I put a deposit down and waited for the dogs to be bred, for pregnancy confirmation, then for whelping.... only for nature to kick us all in the teeth.

Two litters. Thirteen puppies total. Only six silver/blue. I was at the bottom of the waiting list, so my options were to either go with a cream or wait for the next litter. Which... she didn't believe would produce silvers. And her next "planned" silver litter wouldn't be until winter, or next spring, depending. 

She was just as upset as i was. She had a whole list of people waiting for silvers, and had planned for... well, more than six lol. But nobody was at fault. Yes, i was upset. But.... i got over it. 

I picked the cream. I didn't want to wait another 6+ months on a hope, and the timing was too perfect. The second i saw Limerick in her arms, when i went to pick him up, i knew i made the right call. He fits in PERFECTLY and is exactly what Dublin and i needed. So it did work out, and eventually i'll go back and try for another silver. 

So my advice would be -get in touch with this breeder you like. Get a deposit in so you're top of the list, or as close to it as possible. They will do their absolute best to get you your choice in color and gender. And if the original litter falls through, know that there WILL be another. It WILL happen. It may just take some extra patience. Try not to be too hard on yourself, or the breeder. 

My first standard, Dublin, is white - i chose white for the same reason. Creative grooming.


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## minimoon (Aug 4, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> You're welcome .
> 
> The waiting is definitely tough. One other thing I'm reminded to mention from other members experiences is to clarify with the breeder what their wait process is once there is a mutual commitment. Some are very communicative, sending photos and updates, some respond eventually and succinctly, some are even less communicative until you get the Your puppy is ready call/text/email.
> 
> If you don't mind saying what part of the country you're in or how far you'll travel to meet the breeder and poodles, there might be some specific breeders someone will know of. Every so often someone hears something while on their own quest.


Excellent advice. That is something that has been hard to nail down even—what their waitlist process even is. I am willing to travel in the US for the right pup. Thanks!


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

minimoon said:


> That is something that has been hard to nail down even—what their waitlist process even is


Some spell it out on their sites, but not all. When there's nothing spelled out either on their site or thru communications, this is when you'll need to ask what to expect. There are reasons why not all breeders stay in frequent communication. A lot has to do with how they handle wait lists. These are rarely first come/first served, also for good reason. These are two examples copied from another thread.

_There seem to be two main ways that breeders handle wait lists and deposits, whether they stay in touch or not.

To some breeders the two are essentially the same. The new family and the breeder have had back and forth communications, vetted each other (an application also may or may not be required), and there is agreement between all parties. The good faith deposit is placed to hold a suitable puppy but there may not yet be puppies on the ground.

The other way is to follow the same procedures listed above but the waitlist and deposit are treated separately. The waitlist is the breeders way of keeping track of who wants what in a puppy, who's ready for a puppy, but the deposit is not required until puppies are on the ground.

There is a third way that can happen and that's serendipity. Possibly the new family and breeder have already gone thru this process with a prior dog and both feel comfortable with each other. Possibly the new family and breeder are introduced by someone known to each other so they feel comfortable. Waitlists and deposits may not figure in at all, puppies may be on the ground or planned, but the vetting either has been done before or is being vouched for.

Pros and cons to each way but that is between the breeder and the new family.

These are some examples of how a quality breeder handles deposits:


Example A

"Please be as thorough as possible when answering. Your answers help me choose which pup in the litter will be best suited to you and your family. Complete answers go a long way towards matching the best pups for the best families. Filling out the application is not a guarantee of approval. I require a $500 deposit to hold a puppy for approved families. If a litter does not result from a breeding then I will refund your deposit. Your deposit is not refundable in the event that you change your mind, purchase a pup from another breeder, etc. If you wish to be added to my waiting list complete the puppy application. Once approved you may send me a $500 deposit. Families who have been approved and send deposits are given first priority."

Example B

"Step 2: Waiting List

The "waiting list" is a document filled with dozens of potential families for our future puppies. They range in colour preferences, family dynamics, time frames for bringing home a puppy, etc. When we are planning a litter, I will go through the waiting list and contact one family at a time until I find a few homes that are prepared for a new puppy. This is not necessarily a "first come, first serve" basis, but suitable families who have been waiting for 1 year will take priority over suitable families who have been waiting for 3 weeks. The order in which potential owners are contacted entirely depends on what we are expecting in the litter. If the parents of the litter are high energy and known for having more rambunctious puppies, we will be contacting more active and experienced homes. If the parents are mellow and easy-going dogs, we might contact the quieter, less active dog owners on our list.

Step 3: Litter Announcements

Litter announcements are posted on our social media pages, "Puppies" page of our website, and emailed to potential puppy owners (previously contacted and corresponded with before the litter was born). After this announcement, we will maintain contact and provide puppy updates while personalities begin to develop.
Step 4: Matching Puppies to Families

Once the puppies are 4+ weeks old, we will evaluate temperaments and conformation, and decide whether we want to keep back a puppy to show. We typically have input as to which puppy will do best with which family, but the information gathered from 4-6 weeks old will confirm that. We will be able to tell which puppies are shy, high-drive, patient, etc. When possible, we encourage the potential owners to meet the puppy/puppies of our recommendation to ensure it will be a good fit.

Step 5: The Contract

Before taking reservations on any puppies, each potential owner will be emailed a copy of our contract of sale. This document outlines our requirements for spaying/neutering, taking proper care of the dog, and an agreement that the dog will be returned to us if the owners can no longer keep him/her. This contract is to ensure that each party knows their responsibilities, and that the dog will be cared for during their entire life. Any questions or concerns regarding the contract should be addressed before the puppy is reserved.
Step 6: Reservation Fees (Deposits)

A non-refundable fee of $500 is required to reserve a puppy, and goes towards the final purchase price. This secures the puppy to their family until pick-up day. We will then arrange a date and time for pick-up. This is the time to start purchasing supplies, puppy-proofing your household, and brushing up on dog training and behaviour."


Features in common:

There is a planned litter. Each parent has been health tested and then matched to each other for (hopefully) specific results in the litter such as temperament and drive.

The deposit is a good faith guarantee on both sides. The first states that the deposit will be refunded if there is no pregnancy and therefore no puppies. It would not be refunded because the buyer simply changed their mind.

The second breeder requires the non refundable deposit but not til after the puppies are on the ground.

With these types of breeders, they've not only made an investment in all their dogs, they've made an investment in you, the buyer who they've also carefully selected.


We have a member who went thru this lack of communication with their (different) breeder. After some months of not a lot of communication, suddenly the day came.

If you and the breeder came to an agreement with clear understanding that you are on a waitlist, it's most likely true. Not saying it doesn't bite big ones not knowing what's going on.

Some breeders are very in touch with their folks on waitlists and some aren't until the day. _

Quality breeders rarely have more than a few litters a year, if that many, since breeding isn't truly a business for them. It tends to be a very expensive, very passionate hobby. They breed when they see potential to improve something in their line and not to market puppies.


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## minimoon (Aug 4, 2021)

TK9NY said:


> I feel you. 100%. It's a huge risk to put everything into hoping that a planned litter turns out what you want....but unfortunately most reputable breeders start taking deposits and setting up waiting lists before they even breed. It's NOT all that common to find puppies on the ground.
> 
> And it's totally understandable why they do it that way - they want to be sure they have homes for the puppies lined up so they don't have to scramble to find them when puppies are born.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this story. It does help to hear others’ experiences. I decided against the sweet cream girl, and I went with my gut. Let cream breeder know how appreciative I was to be offered one of her pups, and then called and spoke with the breeder with whom I want to move forward. 

She gave me some clarity on her style—she does reservations; which I didn’t realize is different than a waitlist. I filled our an application and we plan to speak again sometime soon. I’m willing to be patient for the right pup. No sense in rushing.🤍


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## minimoon (Aug 4, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> Some spell it out on their sites, but not all. When there's nothing spelled out either on their site or thru communications, this is when you'll need to ask what to expect. There are reasons why not all breeders stay in frequent communication. A lot has to do with how they handle wait lists. These are rarely first come/first served, also for good reason. These are two examples copied from another thread.
> 
> _There seem to be two main ways that breeders handle wait lists and deposits, whether they stay in touch or not.
> 
> ...


Thank you. It seems the breeder I chose (who hopefully chooses me back!) does reservation-style. So once I am ‘accepted,’ I can place a deposit I believe. We have spoken twice now on the phone and she asked me to complete her application, which I did. We plan to speak again soon. I also realize that asking for a white or silver female will limit my options but I’m okay with waiting. Thanks for all the information; I read it all.


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