# Feeding issues



## sam20e (Mar 20, 2015)

Hello friends,

Im having feeding issues with my 6.5 yrs old toy poodle. he is just 5.8kg/12lbs. I'm giving him 1st choice brand kibbles mixed with some wet food (once daily - at night). the thing is, at times he is not eating properly. Leaves like half of his food. even though my kibbles main ingredient is chicken meal, he cannot take any wet food with chicken (for some weird reason he will have upset stomach with a lot of blood n his stool )  because of this im being very careful. I dont like to feed him random stuff. just 1 slice of wholemeal bread in between and then his kibbles thats all. I tried few different wet food brand also. I mixed them with his kibbles but its not working... im scared to change his kibbles brand coz of his sensitive stomach...

any idea? should i completely switch to wet food? I know its not gonna be cheap but any other idea? I cannot give him and cooked/raw food also.. bit stuck here 

so far he is ok with Duck, Lamb wet food topups.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Is he actually losing weight? Have you tried feeding him twice a day, or even leaving the kibble down for him to eat when he wants to? The chicken intolerance is worrying, as it is an ingredient in so many foods even when not specifically mentioned. I wonder if perhaps chicken in the kibble is making him uncomfortable, even if it does not have the extreme effect of the wet food. I think, if he is losing weight, I would try limited ingredient kibble that does not contain chicken, or feed only chicken-free wet food, and feed twice a day.


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## sam20e (Mar 20, 2015)

fjm said:


> Is he actually losing weight? Have you tried feeding him twice a day, or even leaving the kibble down for him to eat when he wants to? The chicken intolerance is worrying, as it is an ingredient in so many foods even when not specifically mentioned. I wonder if perhaps chicken in the kibble is making him uncomfortable, even if it does not have the extreme effect of the wet food. I think, if he is losing weight, I would try limited ingredient kibble that does not contain chicken, or feed only chicken-free wet food, and feed twice a day.


Hi, thanks for the reply.

No he is not losing weight. I tried feeding him twice a day but end up wasting kibbles  if i leave the kibbles overnight he wont eat it. Yea im gonna explore other options like wet food.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Just for background, how much is he fed daily? and is this a new thing, recently started or occasionally since you've had him?


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## sam20e (Mar 20, 2015)

Rose n Poos said:


> Just for background, how much is he fed daily? and is this a new thing, recently started or occasionally since you've had him?


its not a new thing.. i dont feed him a lot because he is a picky eater. i'd say around 70-80g daily?


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Ok, so any wet food with chicken is right out but dry kibble with chicken meal by itself, or with alternative protein, is not a problem except he doesn't much like it, and the reason for the wet topper is to make the kibble more appealing. Does that cover the important points? 

If it does, I'm sure you've been thru a number of kibbles already. When was the last time you tried something different? 
Do you remember some of the ones that didn't fly? 

I ask because I also have a picky eater but switched again recently and to my great surprise, he's been eating his kibble, along with the usual topper of whatever dinner protein and veggies we had, for two to three months now, with no reluctance or fuss. If anything, he's eating a bit faster than before and even makes little "feed me" noises along with a bit of a pre dining jig. 

Leading up to the possibility of trying yet another kibble to find his taste buds truly tickled. Brainstorming will continue .


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

If he is an appropriate weight for his size he may simply be good at self regulating - 70g of kibble is quite a lot for a toy dog. Don't pay too much attention to the amounts suggested on the packet, as they tend to be on the high side. It is better to look at calories and energy requirements - lots of calculators online.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Hi there!

If he's getting a quarter of his day's calories from a slice of bread, is it possible he's just not all that hungry? Or perhaps the bread is bloating him, which would make him reluctant to eat a full meal.

If he's not losing weight and is otherwise healthy, I'd personally not worry. Our poodle is good at self-regulating. She eats when she's hungry. 

I'd be more concerned that by replacing so much of your dog's daily calories with bread, he's missing out on valuable nutrients.


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## sam20e (Mar 20, 2015)

Rose n Poos said:


> Ok, so any wet food with chicken is right out but dry kibble with chicken meal by itself, or with alternative protein, is not a problem except he doesn't much like it, and the reason for the wet topper is to make the kibble more appealing. Does that cover the important points?
> 
> If it does, I'm sure you've been thru a number of kibbles already. When was the last time you tried something different?
> Do you remember some of the ones that didn't fly?
> ...


Thanks for the reply. This is what im feeding him right now - Toy & Small Breeds - Adult

never changed his kibbles before. I'm ok to try some other brands like wellness but im not sure if he will like that or not but its worth a try 



fjm said:


> If he is an appropriate weight for his size he may simply be good at self regulating - 70g of kibble is quite a lot for a toy dog. Don't pay too much attention to the amounts suggested on the packet, as they tend to be on the high side. It is better to look at calories and energy requirements - lots of calculators online.


Yup, he is not a very active dog. mostly indoor exercises only.. i will check out those calculators.




PeggyTheParti said:


> Hi there!
> 
> If he's getting a quarter of his day's calories from a slice of bread, is it possible he's just not all that hungry? Or perhaps the bread is bloating him, which would make him reluctant to eat a full meal.
> 
> ...


Yes, im not giving him only a slice of bread daily because like you said its not a balanced food. I just give him 1-2 slices in between and at around 9pm he will get his kibbles mixed with wet food..


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

sam20e said:


> Yes, im not giving him only a slice of bread daily because like you said its not a balanced food. I just give him 1-2 slices in between and at around 9pm he will get his kibbles mixed with wet food..


2 slices of bread would be close to 50% of his daily calories. So by filling his little belly with bread, he's not going to be taking in enough nutrients from his kibble. 

Is there a reason you're giving him bread?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Agreed - that is a _lot _of bread for a small dog! I would cut out the bread, or reduce it to a couple of pieces the size of your thumbnail, and offer him a few pieces of kibble instead. I suspect the problem is less that he is not eating than that he is eating too much of the wrong things.


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## sam20e (Mar 20, 2015)

Hm that's a valid point. I normally give him only 1 slice. Sometimes 2 slices. Mainly because I thought he'll be hungry coz I'm feeding him only one time. 

So basically this is the routine - 

2pm - 1 or 2 slices of bread
8-9pm - kibbles with wet food.

I guess you're right. He is very small so I think his tummy is filling fast. But then again today I never feed him anything. Not even a slice of bread. Then I just gave him kibbles mixed with some wet food and he ate only half of it :/


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## sam20e (Mar 20, 2015)

Can you recommend a reliable calories calculator?

His profile :

Toy poodle
13lbs 
6.5 yrs old
Activity level - normal
Daily treat - none


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Good thoughts above. Here's the feeding guidelines from what I feed my boys. These guidelines assume no additional food given which is why the kibble amount for my two is adjusted downwards. 

WeightFeeding Amount(lbs)(kg)(cups)(grams)3 - 121.4 - 5.41/2 - 149 - 9713 - 205.9 - 9.11 - 1-1/297 - 146

They currently weigh 12.5 lbs for my smaller and 14 lbs for the larger. 
Their kibble portion is at the low end of the guidelines, about half of the suggested amount. 
They each get 1/4 cup, adjusted slightly under for the little guy and just over for the larger, two times a day, brunch at noon ish and dinner at 7pm ish. They get the topper as described previously with each meal and a few small treats scattered thru the day for training rewards. 
We take a walk of a bit under a mile daily, weather dependent, we play in the backyard for short bursts two or three times daily. 
If your boys activity level is equal to or less than that, I'd consider cutting his full daily portion by 1/3 to start
and I'd consider trying to split his daily portion to two meals daily. This way he'll have a more even flow of nutrients thru his full day and not all at once later in the evening close to bedtime.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

My understanding is that dogs need roughly 30 to 40 calories per pound. That would put your dog at needing roughly 500 calories a day, maybe less if he's not all that active.
Bread is around 110 calories per slice.
I couldn't find your brand's calorie count at a quick glance; the kibbles I feed Pogo are around 390 calories per cup.

So, with those numbers in mind, half a cup of kibble and two slices of bread might be plenty of calories for a mellow middle aged dog.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

I agree with the posters - reduce the bread, find a kibble that is not chicken based, try feeding a little earlier and cut the amount in 2 servings. I think the answer may be the kibble. Keep us posted.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

You definitely want to look at calories, not serving size, as some kibbles are more calorically dense than others.

Using the formula from this Mercola article, your dog needs approximately *247 calories* per day to maintain his weight.









Easy Tips for Helping Your Overweight Pet Slim Down


Get these pet weight loss tips to help your overweight pet go back to his/her ideal weight.




healthypets.mercola.com





This is a little lower than the 25-30 recommended calories per pound I've read elsewhere. But seems accurate given your dog's low activity level.

Instead of bread, I think he should be offered a second serving of kibble, to ensure his nutritional requirements are met. Talk to your vet about this to verify. I'm confident they'd say the same thing, but they know your dog's health best.

Transition slowly, reducing the amount of bread over a period of weeks, ideally by breaking it into small pieces and incorporating a little more kibble every few days. And be sure to keep an eye on his weight.

Of course he's going to prefer the bread. I'd happily eat 10-15 slices a day myself if allowed! (Which would be the human equivalent of what he's currently getting.) But you know better than he does.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

PTP, you're right about figuring the kcals to determine the amount so I set myself on a refresher course. What the OP is feeding now per the website link provided is:

Daily feeding guidelines

adult

KgLbGramsCups1 - 8 years0.5 - 11 - 215 - 251/8 – 1/41 - 1.52 - 325 - 351/4 – 1/31.5 - 33 - 635 - 701/3 – 2/33 - 5.56 - 1270 - 1102/3 – 15.5 - 9.512 - 20110 - 1451 – 1 1/4







A standard 250 ml (8 oz)measuring cup = 115 g
Calorie content Metabolizable Energy(calculated) *475 kcal/CUP*
4130 kcal/kg

so if the amount fed is 70 gms or 2/3 cup approx per sam20e, then the kcal per serving is approximately 320 kcals.

****
To compare the kcals, here's the info on what my boys are now eating. Their 1/4c x2 or 1/2 cup = 49 gms. With the additional bits I add, call it 65 gms daily. The kcal figures here are 393 kcal per cup, a substantial reduction from sam20e's food rating of 475 kca. I'm guessing that means the food sam20e is feeding is more nutrient dense.

Feeding Guidelines

*RECOMMENDED DAILY FEEDING AMOUNTS*
Using a standard 8 oz/250 ml measuring cup which contains approximately 97 g of Pro Plan.

WeightFeeding Amount(lbs)(kg)(cups)(grams)3 - 121.4 - 5.41/2 - 149 - 9713 - 205.9 - 9.11 - 1-1/297 - 146

Calorie Content (fed) 4034 kcal/kg *393 kcal/cup*

*****

Here's what I had been feeding before our last switch, same amounts as above

Calorie Content (FED) 
Metabolizable Energy 4,262 kcal/kg;* 476 kcal/cup*


2 – 8 lb9 – 12 lb13 – 20 lb21 – 30 lbAdult Maintenance¼ - ¾¾ - 11 - 1¼1¼ - 1¾Weight Loss⅛ - ⅜⅜ - ½½ - ¾¾ - 1
*Standard 8 oz dry measuring cup
*Puppies:* Feed up to twice the adult maintenance amount shown above.
*Pregnant/nursing females:* Feed up to three times the adult maintenance amount shown above.

This food has a comparable kcal count to the food sam20e is giving.

*****

My boys were very slowly continuing to gain weight on the higher kcal food, hardly ounces over months.
With the new food, lower kcal, they have dropped a very few ounces over the last several months on it.

*****

To go along with PTP's link, I found this from the Veterinary College at Tufts









How much should I feed my dog or cat?


Veterinarians decide how many calories your pet needs by looking at their current weight, their body condition (are they over or under-weight or just right?), and what they’re currently eating.




vetnutrition.tufts.edu





and then calorie calculators from two other sites which I think are similar to the one PTP linked to but give a bit more detail, reminding that these are all guidelines only:





__





How Many Calories Does a Dog Need | PetMD






www.petmd.com










Basic Calorie Calculator | Veterinary Medical Center







vet.osu.edu





***

With all this said, it might just be that sam20e's little guy is self regulating, as many poodles do. If he likes the kibble and toppers as described then possibly just reducing the kibble amount by a moderate percentage, reducing the bread to treat like status and replacing it with half the daily kibble portion as a first meal of the day, and giving the second half of the daily kibble as an evening meal will work for his poo. 

******

Stay in touch and let us know how your boy is doing .


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## Michigan Gal (Jun 4, 2019)

Try feeding him twice a day. When you eat breakfast, and around the time that you eat dinner. Give half at each meal, then see if he needs more in the morning and less in the evening. He does not need bread.


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## Maggied (Sep 6, 2018)

sam20e said:


> Hi, thanks for the reply.
> 
> No he is not losing weight. I tried feeding him twice a day but end up wasting kibbles  if i leave the kibbles overnight he wont eat it. Yea im gonna explore other options like wet food.


My mini eats anything. But the breeder said a half cup of food day was the right amount. I never can get grams straight, but I wonder if he needs that much. She weighs 17 pounds.


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## Maggied (Sep 6, 2018)

Maggied said:


> My mini eats anything. But the breeder said a half cup of food day was the right amount. I never can get grams straight, but I wonder if he needs that much. She weighs 17 pounds.


That being said, I can understand you being concerned about his eating. He does seem to have a delicate system. I assume the vet has checked out the blood in the stool.


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## Maggied (Sep 6, 2018)

Maggied said:


> My mini eats anything. But the breeder said a half cup of food day was the right amount. I never can get grams straight, but I wonder if he needs that much. She weighs 17 pounds.


Now, I'm worried that I am starving her. Although she is certainly not skinny, I do supplement her food with plain leftover meat and chicken we have. 1/2 c a day didn't seem like enough, but when I compared it to my weight (unsaid) and how much food I would eat on that basis, it wasn't out of the ballpark calorie wise.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

What PTP reminded me about is that the portion size is important primarily to figure out the calories provided by that particular food. There is a lot of variation from brand to brand and even within brands. 

On the back or side of the bag or can, what does it give as the kcal content for 1 cup? Divide that in half and you have the daily calories provided by 1/2 cup of that food. Then figure out how much might come from the supplemented portions and from any treats and add that.

That'll give you a general idea of full daily calorie intake. Then you use those formulas to determine where you are in that ballpark guideline range. 

Or, just monitor her weight and see if she's gaining, maintaining, or losing . That's how I track my boys. I don't doubt they'd like more tho .


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## Lily5949 (Jan 10, 2020)

sam20e said:


> Hello friends,
> 
> Im having feeding issues with my 6.5 yrs old toy poodle. he is just 5.8kg/12lbs. I'm giving him 1st choice brand kibbles mixed with some wet food (once daily - at night). the thing is, at times he is not eating properly. Leaves like half of his food. even though my kibbles main ingredient is chicken meal, he cannot take any wet food with chicken (for some weird reason he will have upset stomach with a lot of blood n his stool )  because of this im being very careful. I dont like to feed him random stuff. just 1 slice of wholemeal bread in between and then his kibbles thats all. I tried few different wet food brand also. I mixed them with his kibbles but its not working... im scared to change his kibbles brand coz of his sensitive stomach...
> 
> ...


Sometimes it is not necessarily the ingredients , say chicken, but the fat content that is causing the stomach issues you are having with your boy. I have had several dogs that cannot tolerate fat, they did well with low fat diets. I would also, as other people suggested try a different kibble. Depending on where you purchase the food, if the dog won’t eat it , it may be returnable. Good luck 😀


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## Benji1125 (Aug 16, 2019)

sam20e said:


> Hello friends,
> 
> Im having feeding issues with my 6.5 yrs old toy poodle. he is just 5.8kg/12lbs. I'm giving him 1st choice brand kibbles mixed with some wet food (once daily - at night). the thing is, at times he is not eating properly. Leaves like half of his food. even though my kibbles main ingredient is chicken meal, he cannot take any wet food with chicken (for some weird reason he will have upset stomach with a lot of blood n his stool )  because of this im being very careful. I dont like to feed him random stuff. just 1 slice of wholemeal bread in between and then his kibbles thats all. I tried few different wet food brand also. I mixed them with his kibbles but its not working... im scared to change his kibbles brand coz of his sensitive stomach...
> 
> ...


I had the very Same problems with out blood but lots mucus and throw up bile content yellow. I tried reg vets holistic vets and vet that for a $300 fee provides a diet tailored to him 
after much trial error we gave settled on Fromm canned turkey pate only not lots other foods in turjpket pate. He loves it some times soft bowels but basically eliminated most foods. He has no kibble I can not add grounds turkey rice and cooked pears he eats 3 snpmall meals a dat for total 8-9 oz totally 1 day. I use a slow feeder and key him relaxed after eats for 35 minutes. He is 4 weights 8.6 lbs. we did x rays ultra sounds put him in proxac. Holistic vet believes he is very high strung nerds quite peace when eats and eats slow. He had lots energy. He no can try more food and I cook ground turkey with sweet potato or rice and cooked pear or mashed cooked apple. He is also on daily the purina probiotic you sprinkle over his food. I know it is a lot but worth it all to see him so healthy and happy 
diane


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Maggied said:


> My mini eats anything. But the breeder said a half cup of food day was the right amount. I never can get grams straight, but I wonder if he needs that much. She weighs 17 pounds.


The recommended serving size will vary by food and brand. There's no one-size-fits-all serving size. Best to go by the guidelines for your particular brand of kibble, making a general note of the calories so you can avoid over-treating.


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## sam20e (Mar 20, 2015)

Update -

You guys are absolutely spot on! Thank you very much for helping. Thanks for all those links, advices etc.

This is what I did:


Completely stopped giving him bread slices
Started giving him a second serving of kibbles

So now he gets 1/4-1/2 cup of kibbles mixed with lil bit of wet food topper in the afternoon around 1pm and then another 1/2 cup around 8pm (lower side of the recommended feeding guidelines). 

He is eating now without any leftovers. I didnt realize all this while that he was full by eating 1-2 slices of bread  

All good now, thank you all once again


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Excellent - glad we were able to help. I would now watch his weight and condition, and adjust the amounts up or down as necessary.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Woohoo! Just keep an eye on his weight and adjust the kibble amount up or down as needed. Stay in touch and let us know how it's going in a few days!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Glad to hear you're seeing such quick results.  But I'd still recommend tapering off the bread slowly rather than cutting it off cold turkey. It's a lot of carbs to suddenly pull from his diet. It could also be keeping his stool firm.


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## sam20e (Mar 20, 2015)

Sure thing, will keep you posted  I will keep an eye on his weight. and sure PTP I will give him like half a slice now and then


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## CSC (Dec 17, 2019)

sam20e said:


> Hello friends,
> 
> Im having feeding issues with my 6.5 yrs old toy poodle. he is just 5.8kg/12lbs. I'm giving him 1st choice brand kibbles mixed with some wet food (once daily - at night). the thing is, at times he is not eating properly. Leaves like half of his food. even though my kibbles main ingredient is chicken meal, he cannot take any wet food with chicken (for some weird reason he will have upset stomach with a lot of blood n his stool )  because of this im being very careful. I dont like to feed him random stuff. just 1 slice of wholemeal bread in between and then his kibbles thats all. I tried few different wet food brand also. I mixed them with his kibbles but its not working... im scared to change his kibbles brand coz of his sensitive stomach...
> 
> ...



Gentle Giants available from Walmart, Chewy and their website. Only food my poople will eat.....


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## sam20e (Mar 20, 2015)

Hii friends just an update -

my boy is doing great with 2 servings. I'm really happy. Thank you very much, all of you


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Hooray! Great to hear. Thanks for the update.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Thanks for letting us know. Your taking the time to update us is appreciated. We'd love to know his name and see a picture, if you don't mind .


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## sam20e (Mar 20, 2015)

Of course. His name is boo and he says Hi 



http://imgur.com/17eRSep2


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Oh so cute! Hi Boo


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