# To breed or not to breed?



## jessnicole10 (Mar 8, 2012)

I'm not going to be of much help, as I am not a breeder nor have I bred Bo. I asked a similar question about wanting to breed Bo a few months ago, and the basic consensus is to be sure you know pretty much EVERYTHING about breeding before you decide to get into it. There are plenty of people around here, as well as websites to help you understand, but there is A LOT of information! I was advised to possibly co-own a dog with a reputable breeder to learn the ins and outs of a breeding program before jumping into it. I haven't done that yet, but I am currently working with a breeder and learning about it all. I just don't co-own yet, but it is something I will consider.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

i do not support purposefully breeding poodle mixes nor do i support breeding a poodle to another poodle just because one has an intact dog or two whether they have full breeding rights etc.

i think breeding should be left to those who are experienced enough to provide health testing, breeding to the standard, finishing/titling the dogs in some way and really be on top of the game.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Chiara said:


> So i want to bring more poodles to Scotland!


Have you had any contact with the Poodle Club of Scotland? You may want to explore what they do and put your efforts behind theirs to spread the word about the poodle breed. That could be a meaningful way to educate the public about poodles. Just saw this on Facebook, hope the link works for you. 
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Poodle-Club-of-Scotland/193602264032224

Home - The Poodle Club of Scotland


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## Servicepoodlemomma (Jun 22, 2013)

I am absolutely completely against the breeding of MUTTS! Call it whatever doodle you want - the shelters are packed full of both pure and mix breed dogs DYING because there's not enough homes for them all. 

That said - I am also completely against the breeding of PUREBREDS as wells UNLESS done by an individual that has done ALL the research knows exactly what health testing is needed, has spent the time and energy to carefully research bloodlines and pedigrees, and then willing to take responsibility when things go wrong AND to take responsibility for the LIVES they bring into this world, and then only bred when they believe that by doing so they will IMPROVE the breed in some way. THAT is what responsible breeders do. Please - get a mentor and learn all the ins and outs, the ugly realities that every breeder faces. Puppies die. Mothers for giving whelp. Health problems crop up sometimes seemingly out of nowhere. 

Take my experience as a case in point. I use to show Italian Greyhounds. I knew little and wasn't wise enough to admit it. I bred a beautiful litter - didn't listen to anyone, kept what I thought would be the best puppy, turns out I kept the worst, the best was finished by 9 months old with a BIS! So I repeated my mistake. Yes I said mistake. Sure I'd produced a beautiful litter - and even my "worst" finished. The repeat litter was my last. I ended up with 5 beautiful puppies. All are spayed and neutered. Why? Because of my beautiful Aiyana. She was born deaf. By 9 months she developed epilepsy. By 2, she'd developed Addison's disease. She appears the perfect example of the breed for those only judging her beauty - but they know nothing of the heartaches it's taken to get her to where she is today - to even have her with me today. BUT I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR IT, and love her regardless. Now are YOU ready to commit to that? To pay vet bills for a entire litter of sick puppies? To take back a dog regardless of it's age or health? 

I am proud of my babies - but I learned a very hard lesson. I love Aiyana in a way I love no other dog - but as they say, if I knew then what I know now, her parents never would have even been bred the first time. Knock on wood - Aiyana has been the only one to have health problems (the first litter is 6 1/2, Aiyana turned 5 in May). 

PLEASE do NOT repeat my mistakes - it's the dogs that pay the ultimate price!

As far as neutering early vs late - there is no research supporting it's better to neuter at 1 year vs 1 month (ok, maybe to extreme), but there is valid evidence supporting waiting until they are MATURE before neutering - a Standard Poodle isn't going to reach full physical maturity until around 2 years depending on your bloodline. There are pros and cons both ways - Are you really ready to deal with an intact male that marks in your house? Gets in fights if another male approaches at times (especially if the other male is also intact)? Will try to escape your yard any way possible if it gets a whiff of a female in season? Please, there are lots of pros and cons both ways out there - I personally like to wait until a dog is mature, and for females the spay can be done midway between heat cycles, but this is also why I wouldn't want a male dog that wasn't a rescue and neutered when I get it at this stage of my life. 

I may be extreme - but I don't think there's any danger of poodles ever dying out as long as enough TRUE REPUTABLE breeders focus on keeping the health and integrity of the breed alive. This isn't done by random breeding, but by years of research. This is why even though I know I want another Spoo, and eventually to show a Spoo, I'm looking NOW, YEARS before I'll be ready to take that on, and finding a good mentor now! Please reconsider neutering your boy when the time is right - let him enjoy being a pet, and start trying to find a good mentor that can really teach you the proper way to preserve the breed if that's what you want to do. The fact your puppy was sold without any stipulation of showing or spay/neuter tells me your puppy's breeder probably won't be a good place to turn for this. With thousands dying daily - the world doesn't need more dogs. In needs those dedicated to the health and preservation of their chosen breed(s) to do it right and make sure there are dogs for future generations to enjoy without the shelters having little choice but to kill the masses that nobody wants.


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

I have to agree with others, I have nothing against mutts, I have owned many, but I think it's utterly irresponsible to intentionally breed mixed breeds. There are way too many homeless pets and I think breeding should be left to the professional breeders who invest heavily into their breeding time both their time and money


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would think in terms of what would your dog bring to the breed that no other dog can? (I am assuming you are too responsible to listen to owners of bitches just thinking of the money they can make from a litter of poodle crosses!). Is your dog of outstanding conformation? A champion athlete? A renowned working dog? Has he - or will he - also pass all the necessary health tests with flying colours? I don't think every dog needs to achieve championship status before being bred, especially in the UK where it is far harder than in the US, but nor should every dog be bred. It is an expensive, time consuming, often heart breaking undertaking, and any responsible owner is going to be looking for an outstanding dog to cover their bitch. And in my limited experience, dogs that have learned what it is all about are much keener on tracking down every female in season in a five mile radius than those who lack that knowledge!

Not breeding him doesn't mean you have to neuter him early, or even neuter him at all. The evidence is building that there are health - and even behavioural - benefits to keeping a male entire, as long as you can ensure his safety. But don't be persuaded into allowing others to use him for their BYB plans!


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## Chiara (May 22, 2013)

Just to make things clear, I do not want to breed a poodle with anything but a poodle. Sorry, I was rambling so I didn't realise that wasn't clear lol. 
Thank you all for your information. I have always wanted to go into breeding later on in my life and I guess I just got excited and wanted to do it right away. I'll calm down now. 





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## Abbe gails Mom (Nov 8, 2012)

I am no help what so ever. I am Not for Breeding at all, I see way too many Poodles 3 months and up in the shelters that are being PUT Down, because there are just not that many homes for them, and I know Responsible Breeders , Bull, If you were a responsible Breeder you would rescue your breed , not make more of them, I know, not going too be very Popular on here after that statement, But I am sick of looking into the HELPLESS EYES of the homeless , dumped ones being Killed , any one that is thinking about or IS breeding should have to spend ONE day holding animals that are being put down,


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

You do know you should not breed a dog until two years of age, is has been fully tested and cleared of what you test for? Even with passing every test under the sun, you can still see something produced. It takes intense scrutiny of both pedigrees to see what has been going on behind the dogs, plus the testing, to even have a clue where to begin. And you might look at the pedigrees and see no illness, because people have to report the illness to the right places like PHR for this information to become public. Breeding is not for the faint of heart! Nor should it be taken lightly.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I would not even entertain a discussion about cross breeding, so I am not much help here, and there are so many dogs in rescue now, why would you even consider it? Just my opinion.


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## Servicepoodlemomma (Jun 22, 2013)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> You do know you should not breed a dog until two years of age, is has been fully tested and cleared of what you test for? Even with passing every test under the sun, you can still see something produced. It takes intense scrutiny of both pedigrees to see what has been going on behind the dogs, plus the testing, to even have a clue where to begin. And you might look at the pedigrees and see no illness, because people have to report the illness to the right places like PHR for this information to become public. Breeding is not for the faint of heart! Nor should it be taken lightly.


So true! And many pet owners don't test their dogs. Also a responsible breeder isn't looking at JUST the dogs in the pedigrees but their siblings and offspring that aren't as well - just because one dog tests well for everything doesn't mean the entire litter did! And even when everything looks perfect - at best breeding is a crap shoot for recessive genes that may have been hidden for generations to appear, or non-hereditary congenital defects to show up. It happens ALL THE TIME. 

I COMPLETELY agree that breeders should have to spend a day in a high kill shelter in the "euth room", holding the innocent squirming body of a dog who's life is about to be ended far to soon. Then see if they still want to breed! 

Now I don't think that there are NO responsible breeders - but those that are KNOW that, and are actively involved in rescue as well - maybe not physically but in other ways whenever possible. All my poodles have been rescues. And while I'd love to get into showing Spoos, it would take a truly exceptional example of the breed to even make me THINK about breeding! And even then, I'd only do so with plans to keep a puppy myself - and spay/neuter everything else that wasn't going to an already trusted peer that I knew would meet or exceed my own standards and ethics. With no reputable breeders the breed would be ruined by all the mills and back yard breeders that don't know or don't care how big of a problem they create!!! They will never die out completely until people STOP SUPPORTING THEM! And sadly I doubt that'll ever happen! So my hat goes off to those who truly do all they can to preserve and protect the breed in it's purity so it's around for future generations to enjoy!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

To be fair to the OP, I doubt many - if any - poodles are PTS in Scottish shelters unless they are so ill that it is a veterinary decision. Poodles and most poodle crosses are comparatively easy to home here, and there are breed rescues ready to step in. Far too many healthy dogs do die, but they are predominantly Staffy mixes, greyhounds and terriers. The message remains though - there is a great deal more to think about when considering breeding than introducing a handsome intact male to a pretty intact female!


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## Carrie-e (Oct 23, 2012)

If I had a pound for everyone who had said to me you should breed your poodle,(referring to my 11 month old standard boy Billy) I would be rich. I think they think its as easy as popping to the shops for a pint of milk. I signed a contract when I picked billy up at 8 months to say I would not breed from him and he has just been neutered. There are so many things to consider when breeding and I don't know any where near enough about it to even think about it. It's true in the UK it is easier to rehome poodles,but if you look on the Internet there is still a lot on there that are up for rehoming,the usual reason given that the owner doesn't have the time for them. Owning a dog is a privilege not a right and should be thought about a lot before entering into it.


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

I have another dog aside from my poodle, he was bred as one of those 'designer breeds' they call a peek-a-chu. Half Pekingese half chihuahua. My father in law (a man who should never own animals) bought my dog and his brother for 800 bucks each. I year later I took them off his hands( rescued) them. 
I gave one to a co-worker, and I kept one. The day I brought my boy home I called my vet and had a neuter appointment for the following monday.















Anyways, my point I'm getting at is. You will not believe how many people will ask me if he is intact because they want to breed him with their whatever. Sometimes it's other crossbreeds, sometimes it's chihuahuas or what ever other "cute" dog they have. 

When ever I'm asked this, I always am appalled and get really disgusted. My response always is. " no, he is neutered and I don't participate in such irresponsible behavior!!" And then I go on with an educational lecture and always make sure they know that he was a rescue too.
My father in law kept he and his brother locked in a small kennel out in the garage most of their life once the novelty of them wore off. This is the second dog I have taken from him, he had an old English sheepdog who lived in the garage for the first 4 years of his life, but got to live out the rest of his life as part of our family because of me and my husband. The worst part about my father in law is, for 8 years he was an animal control officer who saw the horrors of animal cruelty and abandonment and overpopulation. He believed that taking the animals he did take was his way of saving them because they didn't have to be put down if he had them. He never neuters his pets because "it's taking away their manhood" r u kidding me!?!?!?!? He has put down several healthy puppies because there wasn't any room in the shelter for them and he still has this attitude. I don't really have anything to so with this man, neither does my husband. I've tried educating him, but you know, he was an animal control officer so he is an expert when it comes to animals and he knows it all. It doesn't matter that I've been a pet professional for 12 years and a large advocate for rescues and now I'm into showing and constantly educating myself with mentors and the whole nine yards.. Lol

Sorry for my rambling, kind of glad to have a chance to fume a little.


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## MaryLynn (Sep 8, 2012)

I think you're gazing upon the world of dogs with a narrow scope if you're entertaining the idea of breeding your pet.

Just my 2 cents.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I'm showing my male poodle. I haven't even considered whether he will be bred or not. He'd have to pass all his testing with flying colors and have something to offer a girl. It would have to be the right girl who also had testing and something to offer. 

If you think breeding would be neat, first get yourself a male or female that you can prove in conformation or obedience or agility or something. Contact an established breeder near you to talk to them and attend a dog show or two to find out about things. Please don't breed mixes for the money. Do it right. For all I know your boy is a great poodle, but you need to show it first (and do the testing).


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## Luce (Mar 4, 2013)

Luce is all poodle - she is from an accidental BYB. She doesn't have reg. papers. Her parents owner was only 18 when she bought the father at 8 weeks old and either forgot to send in the papers or lost them. I forgot how she came to own the female - friend or cousin who didn't have time for her anymore! The poor thing was 6-8 months old when she went to her current owner.

So the parents aren't registered, but they are poodles - you can just tell, so I know Luce is all poodle. Some people do know she is a poodle!!! Those are the people who have owned and or bred them so they can tell a poodle puppy when they see one.

Most people ask if she is a cockapoo. I politely say "No, she is all poodle". It's almost like real 100% poodles just don't exist anymore - cockapoo, peekapoo, doodles, pugapoo. I was talking to the young lady who owns Luces parents and she told me her aunt or friend or whoever wanted to have her dachshund mate with her female!!!!!!! She said "Are you going to take all of the puppies and find them homes? No? Good - that's not going to happen!" Even though I am not happy about them having another litter, I have to say I was proud of her for not giving in to the pop-a-poo culture of mixing anything with a poodle.

My experience with unaltered males. When I was a child we had 2 unaltered males - a mpoo and tpoo. The male was blind with cataracts by the time he was 4 or 5. He was a great dog. Every once in a while he would climb over the little fence we had, cross the street, go through the yard across the street, through the next yard, cross that street, make a right, go down about 8 houses and sit there in the front yard and wait. He didn't bark, howl or do anything that was not becoming of a suitor lol - according to the owner of the female in heat. As far as I know the tpoo never got out of the yard for that purpose. Our males NEVER marked inside the house! My mother would NEVER put up with that!! LOL The only reason we had poodles was because they don't shed! She wouldn't put up with that either! I never heard of that (marking in the house) until about 2 years ago. I have no idea why ours didn't and have no idea why others do.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

There are enough dogs in the world and we don't need more. I know it is a temptation to breed your dog, but please get him neutered as soon as possible. Think of all the thousands of dogs being put to sleep in the shelters every day. We as responsible pet owners don't need to add to that. 


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## taem (Mar 5, 2011)

I would never breed a dog now, but when I was a kid my family bred two litters of toys. My parents wanted us to have the experience, and it was magical. I find it sad that kids today can't have that experience. I understand what folks are saying about too many dogs being out there, etc. But on some level this is the rest of us having to give up something precious so we can pick up after irresponsible bastards. That doesn't sit entirely well with me. I don't see any awareness campaigns about not being irresponsible bastards - I just see ad campaigns about how the responsible folks have to adopt poorly socialized dogs with big medical issues so the irresponsible bastards can keep right on rolling.

I'll also say, breeders and advancing the breed standard, that's not for everyone. Those dogs cost a lot. Some people just want a GSD or a poodle or whatever, but they can't afford two grand. So they go to puppy mills. I think it's entirely possible that the pressure to not breed your dog is helping puppy mills flourish. When I was a kid there were always folks in the neighborhood who had pups available. Not pro breeders, but not mills either. Good healthy puppies from happy, well taken care of dogs. But now everyone is told you have to spay or neuter, so you don't get neighborhood dogs anymore - it's a breeder or the mill, if you want a pure breed.

But like I said I won't breed, not with what I know now about the medical and other issues you need to be on top of. It's a lot of work too, raising a litter of puppies. But I'm glad I had the experience. I'm probably the last generation who got to have that experience.

We made a lot of money off those toys though. Thy were dark apricots when they were the rage, they went for $500 a pop and that was a lot of money in the early 80s.


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## ICouldntThinkOfAName (May 16, 2013)

Abbe gails Mom said:


> If you were a responsible Breeder you would rescue your breed , not make more of them, I know, not going too be very Popular on here after that statement, But I am sick of looking into the HELPLESS EYES of the homeless , dumped ones being Killed , any one that is thinking about or IS breeding should have to spend ONE day holding animals that are being put down,


I see your point, but it's not the breeders fault that whoever buys the puppy decides to give it away. Most people who buy from them keep the dogs. Breeders are there to PRESERVE the breed, and keep it true to it's purpose and standards. I always neuter and spay my dogs, and up until my current poodle, I only had strays as pets my entire life. I do, however, think breeding should be left up to responsible breeders who test for genetic problems and only breed healthy dogs.


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## Caniche (Jun 10, 2013)

So let me start off by saying - I sympathize with you. I grew up in a household with dogs who were mixed breeds. My first family dog was a maltipoo. She was an accidental puppy, but it was the early 90s and a small town and Backyard Breeding wasn't as widely researched as it had been now. Or at least, it was as common in my area. Since Penny, our beloved maltipoo, we've had other poodle mixes in our house - currently we have a maltipoo and shih poo mix. All from breeders, none from shelters. They're all great dogs (one has many health problems and the other wasn't mixed with what she was supposed to be mixed with)

Then it came time to get my own dog. And I researched and researched and realized how ....wrong mixed breeds are. My first dog ("my" dog, not a family dog) was a purebred toy poodle. I'm on my second poodle now. My first dog came from a wonderful woman. Everyone on this site who knows more about poodles than I do, would call her a backyard breeder. I'm not sure I'd put her in that category. She was completely devoted to her dogs. She had some testing done, but not as much as some breeders. Her place was so clean - and I know she loved her dogs more than any breeder I've met. That being said, she was still wrong because she was breeding purebred poodles as well as poodle crosses. 

I didn't know mixes were bad or the amount of testing that's needed before I came on the site (years ago, different screen name) And, like you, I asked questions - and I took the responses as being harsh, rude and sometimes even mean.

They're not.

The people on this page are one thing - passionate. They don't want to see another mixed breed end up in a pound,
on the streets, or euthanized. They don't want to see another purebred poodle who was bred poorly end up with Addison's, luxating patella, blindness or other issues that result from improper testing. 

I am proud to say I'm one of those people now.

My rule of thumb is - if you're thinking about breeding, don't. Let people who are and have devoted their lives to this do that. Let the people who have done years of research and experience bring the best poodles they can into the world. If you're asking "should I?" then you're not ready.

I think there's a place for breeding in this world. But I think it should be done by the people who have the time, money, energy and dedication to commit to it. 

I think you should neuter your boy when you've decided to and enjoy him for who he is - your best friend. 


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## StephenSaved (Sep 1, 2013)

*To breed or not to breed*

Okay,

So we are getting another Standard following our Angel passing of cancer. A lovely brown standard with exceptional blood lines.

Here's my question. While we will almost certainly never breed her, is paying the extra for a fully registered (read could be used to breed) dog a good or bad idea?

And as we only saw our new baby at 3 days old, when are the tails bobbed and what is the accepted length of the remaining tail?


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

I came across a great chart today on whether or not to breed yr dog.

I love the last line in the yellow box. "If u are doing it right, u will not make any money breeding dogs."


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

StephenSaved said:


> Okay,
> 
> So we are getting another Standard following our Angel passing of cancer. A lovely brown standard with exceptional blood lines.
> 
> ...


If paying extra will get you full registration, you're most likely not dealing with a reputable breeder...:/. Responsible/ethical breeders sell all companions on a spay/neuter contract with limited registration. This is done to protect the breed.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

Tails are docked usually 1-3 days after birth. I have read that from 1 breeders experience docking at 1 day produces a longer dock. Having papers is fine if you want to show in conformation & then possibly breed. I believe the pups are evaluated @ least 2x before they are ready to go to homes. So, you should know if you are getting a " show" quality which would be more expensive then a "pet" quality. One should not have to "buy" the papers it should be in the purchase price of a " show" quality dog. Now in the US you can show in ALL events without papers except conformation.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

StephenSaved - Let me elaborate on my response above. Reputable breeders sell companions on spay/neuter contracts and with limited registration only. _You cannot simply pay more to attain full registration._ Full registration is given only to very carefully screened buyers who purchase the puppy on a co-ownership agreement and who plan to show their poodle and/or compete in agility, obedience or other performance events and who are well educated in the health issues that exist in the breed, who share the same breeding ethics, and who are well versed in the poodle breed standard.

If a breeder lets you simply pay more for full registration, that is a red flag that this is most likely a backyard breeder. It speaks volumes as to the breeder's dedication to protecting the breed.


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