# possible diabetes



## ellenkb (Nov 29, 2011)

My six year old, spayed female has become incontinent in the last few weeks. Mostly it's a problem while resting, although this evening she peed on the bedroom floor, right in front of me! The vet started her on Proin about 4 weeks ago which worked like a charm for the first 2 weeks then totally stopped working. She is now wearing doggie diapers but still gets me up several times a night to go outside (note that it is now 1:38AM and I am here posting). To complicate matters, she is on a hypoallergenic diet due to IBS! She has started drinking a lot so it occurred to me that she might have diabetes. I am taking her in for a fasting blood glucose test at 9:00, then a consult at 2:15. If she does not have diabetes then I guess Plan B is to try hormone therapy. Any thoughts or suggestions?


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

My 8-year old neutered male toy poodle was put on insulin shots twice a day for diabetes and I tested his urine with strips every day. I never liked needles but I learned how to give shots and use testing strips, and it all became very routine. He did well......maybe get a second opinion to be sure.


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## roulette (Feb 18, 2011)

I had a standard that suffered from spay incontinence. It went hand in hand with bladder infections, which made it hard to tell if she was just "leaking" or peeing often from an infection. I knew it was an infection if she strained to pee, or if just a few drops came out. You may wanna check for that, too.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Thanks, I've never had a dog with "spay incontinence".....what causes it?


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

My very first rescue, Brandy, was a 14+ year old diabetic. I've never heard of hormone therapy for treating canine diabetes. What is that exactly? (I'll Google too!)

When I first adopted Brandy, he was a mess. He would stumble around, wee everywhere and he guzzled water. I discovered Belly Bands and my floors were saved. Of interest, he didn't develop diabetes until he was 14.  

Once we got him stabilized, he was fine. He had to get two injections per day (insulin) twelve hours apart and frequent glucose curves, but he took it all in stride. He was also blind when I adopted him--he had developed diabetes-related cataracts. Thankfully, they were operable and his sight was restored. 

There are other illnesses that cause similar symptoms (frequent urination, drinking more water, etc.) so it's good that she's seeing the vet. Please keep us posted and I'm curious to learn about the hormone therapy. I wasn't sure I could cope with a diabetic senior poodle but Brandy proved me wrong. See? There's truth to that old saying: you don't always get the dog you want but the dog you _need_. Brandy taught me a lot!

I hope your girl is okay!!


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Coco went blind and was not a canidate for eye surgery and he did very well, anyway. I wouldn't hesitate to do it all again, if the need arose.


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## A'n'A Mom (Dec 4, 2010)

ellenkb,

Has Paris' vet tested her for a bladder infection? That's where I'd start. 
If that's negative, since she's also increased her water consumption, the vet will probably want to run a blood panel to check her kidney function.
If it was spay incontinence, I think the PROIN would have kept working.
AFAIK, diabetes isn't that common in Poodles...so start with the easy stuff first ;-)


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Definatly rule out UTI, first. 

Also, in case it helps at all, I had really good results from a suppliment called Bladder Control for my Aussie bitch with Spay Incontinence. I have also used it in younger dogs with UTIs. You may want to ask your vet about trying that as well.
Nutri-Vet Bladder Control Supplement for Dogs | PetFoodDirect

Best wishes! I hope she is feeling better soon!


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Spay incontience sounds like something that might have happened in surgery. Would anyone please explain.....


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## roulette (Feb 18, 2011)

Spay incontinence is technically caused by a reduction in hormone production (estrogen), which weakens the bladder sphincter, causing urine to leak out, especially when the dog is relaxed or asleep. But..spay surgery (in most cases) is basically a "keyhole surgery" where a small incision is made in the bitch's abdomen, and the vet reaches in there with an instrument kinda like a crochet hook, extracting the uterus and ovaries. Sometimes the bladder and/or ureters can be "tipped" or "nicked" causing changes in bladder function. So..determining the source and real reason for the leakage is necessary for proper treatment. I only found out how common it is once my dog exhibited symptoms right after recovery from her surgery at 8 months of age. The hormonal deficiency usually exhibits more as the bitch ages. Our particular situation was difficult to cope with, and although her situation (unsocialized rescue girl) demanded spay, I will think twice about spaying my female dogs ever again. I'd rather manage heat cycles.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

Any word, Ellen?
I've got my fingers crossed but the increased water consumption combined with the frequent urge to urinate have me worried. I hope she's okay!


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## ellenkb (Nov 29, 2011)

Thanks, Roulette for that explanation. We now know that she has neither Cushings nor diabetes. She has developed a UTI though which is being treated with antibiotics. I suspect the UTI is from wearing diapers. Whatever! I guess the next step is estrogen and back on Proin. This is a very frustrating process not to mention $$$$! She is also on Hill's prescription diet Z/D which is really expensive and STINKS! Would love to find an alternative. Her bowel problems started in May and lasted through the summer - this food does seem to help a lot so I hesitate to change but if there is an alternative I am all for trying it.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Seeing a holistic vet might give you other ideas to try. They can be very reasonable in cost and can help with the overall health of the animal. You might inquire of those you trust, dog professionals, and the poodle rescue people in your area for referrals.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

ellenkb said:


> ...We now know that she has neither Cushings nor diabetes. She has developed a UTI though which is being treated with antibiotics. I suspect the UTI is from wearing diapers. Whatever! I guess the next step is estrogen and back on Proin. This is a very frustrating process not to mention $$$$! She is also on Hill's prescription diet Z/D which is really expensive and STINKS! Would love to find an alternative. Her bowel problems started in May and lasted through the summer - this food does seem to help a lot so I hesitate to change but if there is an alternative I am all for trying it.


A UTI is a much better diagnosis than Cushing's or Diabetes. If she's been diagnosed with a UTI and is being treated with antibiotics, why does she need to go back on the Proin/estrogen? I agree with *petitpie *that a holistic vet can help if she's prone to UTIs for some reason. 

If you examine the ingredients in the Hill's Z/D, there's nothing "special" about it. In fact, it's crap. There are _allergens _in this food. You should be able to find an equivalent food or even make your own. Merlin had bowel issues a while back and my vet _immediately _brought up Science Diet I/D. I flat out told her there was no way in hell I was feeding that crap to my dog.  (Sorry to be so blunt, but that's my opinion of this food. It's crap. Dogfoodadvisor agrees: Science Diet Dog Food | Review and Rating)

If the Science Diet doesn't work out, you have many options to consider. For example: Nature's Variety Instinct: Grain-Free Canned Diet for Dogs: Rabbit Formula | Nature's Variety It will just take a bit of research to determine which will work best for her (holistic, raw, homecooked, etc.). There are many options: Hypoallergenic Dog Foods



> Science Diet Z/D Ingredients
> Water, Hydrolyzed Chicken Liver, Corn Starch, Powdered Cellulose, Soybean Oil, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Citrate, DL-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Iodized Salt, Vitamin E Supplement, Taurine, Ascorbic Acid (source of vitamin C), L-Threonine, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, L-Tryptophan, Beta-Carotene, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Calcium Iodate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin, Sodium Selenite, Folic Acid.


Now for an example of much higher quality food


> Nature's Variety Rabbit Formula ingredients
> Ingredients
> Rabbit, Pork Liver, Water, Ground Flaxseeds, Tricalcium Phosphate, Montmorillonite Clay, Peas, Carrots, Calcium Carbonate, Lecithin, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Dried Kelp, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Taurine, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide), Artichokes, Cranberries, Pumpkin, Tomato, Blueberries, Broccoli, Cabbage, Kale, Parsley.


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