# How to teach a dog to walk backwards?



## vicky2200 (Feb 14, 2012)

I am in the process of teaching Weegee to walk around me on command. I would also like to teach him to walk backwards around me. I should specify I am talking about with all 4 feet on the ground. How would you go about teaching this? I am stumped?


----------



## Ellyisme (Jul 17, 2012)

I've never taught a dog to walk backwards, but I have an alpaca for an obstacle course. What we did was take the lead with two hands and hold it in front of it. This basically creates a barrier. Then gently tap the lead to their chest and say "back". They'll be pretty crooked at first, but it didn't take long for them to learn it. I would assume the same principle would apply to dogs, and they'll probably be a faster learner with a few treats in your pocket.


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

vicky2200 said:


> I am in the process of teaching Weegee to walk around me on command. I would also like to teach him to walk backwards around me. I should specify I am talking about with all 4 feet on the ground. How would you go about teaching this? I am stumped?


I lOVE this trick! It is so easy to train! It is a combination of 2 behaviors.

The first one is a flip finish. This is where the dog comes to heel by staying on your left side and moving his hind end to pivot around. Keep your shoulders square as this is how your dog lines up square and it's essential for teaching the second part.

The second one I call "scoot". It is teaching the flip finish but against your calves. Once your dog is solid on the flip finish, turn your upper body sideways and give the cue. The dog will "flip" since it is cueing off your upper body, not your legs.

Once you got those, you're almost there. Cue the flip, then the scoot. Turn around. Cue the flip and scoot again. There - your dog just went in a circle!

Now make it fun and fast! When your dog can do all 4 steps without a command for each one, stop turning around. He can do it himself now!

Here's a dog I trained this trick with:


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Tried it with my dog. Captured the first attempt at the "scoot" with him (yay!!) and how the beginning of this training looks. It will take a while to get video up, I'll post back.


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)




----------



## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I will look forward to seeing the training process for this trick-it is adorable and I would like to teach Swizzle. Swizzle does what Jet does in the swivel to heel position but not as well. He often does not finish on the correct plane with my knee and so I do not reward until he is in the proper position but he still often is a few inches back from where he should be. How can I correct this?

Thank you for these great videos Tortoise.


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

CT Girl said:


> I will look forward to seeing the training process for this trick-it is adorable and I would like to teach Swizzle. Swizzle does what Jet does in the swivel to heel position but not as well. He often does not finish on the correct plane with my knee and so I do not reward until he is in the proper position but he still often is a few inches back from where he should be. How can I correct this?
> 
> Thank you for these great videos Tortoise.


Hanging back is probably because of confusion/stress. Just being a little unsure of where to be. Build his enthusiasm with a high rate of reward. You can try running 3 steps into the heel. You can try getting the lagging heel position then bait 1 step forward to correct. Jet lagged in the heel position. I gave up and came back to it a few months later. Something "clicked" in his little doggie brain and he "gets it" now, so the hestitation and lagging are gone.

Check your clicker/marker/reward timing. That can confuse. Check your placement of reward. The reward needs to come at the place you want him nose to be. If he is too polite and you are bringing the treats to him, you might need to take a break from the position and teach him to drive into your hand for treats. Also check your body language and make sure you are presenting a square anchor for him to line up with. Check each time that your feet, hips and shoulders are straight forward. Do not turn or lean towards your dog. If you taught your dog right and then turn towards your dog, your dog will line up with your shoulders and be too far back - exactly what I use to teach the dog to stand against my calves. If you are standing square you cannot see your dog. So bend forward at the hips so you're still completely straight but "looking at your toes". Then you can see your dog and still be straight.


----------



## MaryLynn (Sep 8, 2012)

I really look forward to more videos on this! So helpful.

Edit: I just subscribed to your channel


----------



## waltersmom (Sep 8, 2012)

AMAZING, I love it!!!!!


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

MaryLynn said:


> I really look forward to more videos on this! So helpful.
> 
> Edit: I just subscribed to your channel


Oh shoot, now I have to actually train my dog. :lol:


----------



## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

That right and we will be lined up to watch you videos which are great by the way. If you want to throw in some front and rear crosses that would be the icing on the cake. I don't know why I am having such a hard time doing them correctly when they look so easy.


----------



## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

MaryLynn said:


> I really look forward to more videos on this! So helpful.
> 
> Edit: I just subscribed to your channel


Can you really do this? I am not utube savvy. I did look up other videos with Diablo's Emerald.


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

I am going to post unedited training session video - complete with all the bloopers - on youtube. Feel free to ask questions because there are lots of mistakes in there that you should try to not copy! Knowing how to do it right and actually doing it right are 2 totally different things.  Thankfully dogs are forgiving and figure it out anyway.

Today I tried to raise my criteria and discovered that Jet doesn't know how to back up. After killing his attitude with low rate of reward because he wasn't offering what I wanted to reward, I switched to straight line backing - baited. And made a mess with canned food all over the floor. 

Then my silly dog is too prissy to step on the canned food. You can't see it in the video but his foot slipped on a glob of food and he got nervous.


----------



## Kloliver (Jan 17, 2012)

First of all.... most dogs don't know they have back feet. Big dogs often even less so. Just getting them to learn they do is sometimes a challenge. i wld start by having them learn to back up in a straight line. When you walk towards your dog to get him to backup, he does, but really he's just conscious of you in his space & trying to get out of the way.

Do you have an X pen? If so, then take it apart so its one long chain. Form it into a V or space ship shape. Put your dog inside the pen & you stand directly in front outside. When you back up he will try to move towards you but cannot, so they back up. Click even the tiniest flexing of the back leg muscles. Start to delay the click/ treat (C/T) until you get a full step. Then delay until you get 2 steps & so on.

Using the same gate form it in a circle. By stepping towards the dog at either his hip or shoulder (depending on whether you're teaching a fwd or back circle) you can easily shape this behaviour w/ no lures or body cues. Click even the tiniest flexing of the back leg muscles. Start to delay the click/ treat (C/T) until you get a full step. Then delay until you get 2 steps & so on. Make the circle bigger at first then smaller.


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

I definitely do not want this behavior offered! There's a reason why I train this more hands-on. I don't want my dog to offer this and trip me up at some random time - probably when I was holding something very hot. or expensive.

I'm all for hands-off free shaping. But there are some things you don't want to risk having your dog throw out there.

I'm teaching this in a process of hind end awareness training to refine heeling. So I want my dog to cue off my body.

Just sayin' there's a method to the madness.


----------



## Kloliver (Jan 17, 2012)

Everyone *(other than Tortoise, who :rolffleyes: ALWAYS :ballchain: has the best/ most efficient/ effective/ smartest/ ETC training methods) *this is a training technique used by one of the best free styler dog performers in the country. I took a 2 day workshop w/ this trainer & in two short 3-5 minutes sessions most dogs were able to readily pick it up & stop using the gate for the straight back up. The circling takes a bit longer. As with any training suggestions, take what you can from it & implement what works for you.

Use a high rate of reinforcement &, only if the dog is performing it well 80% of the time, do you raise the criteria & then you go back to a high rate of reinforcement. If your dog 'fails' 3x- NEVER go past 3x), then drop your criteria & up the rate of reinforcement.

Always have a training plan for the session. Don't wing it. Have a picture in your mind of how you want the trick to look & work towards that. Only when it looks exactly how you want it to & is done so consistently, do you name it. If you do so prematurely then simply pick a new cue marker for when it is consistently perfect. Shaping forces a dog to think & _choose_ the desired behaviour. It also lends itself to the strongest cue retention. Remember later on to employ stimulus control- ONLY C/T when you CUE the behaviour, not when it's simply offered.


----------



## vicky2200 (Feb 14, 2012)

I don't have an x-pen, but I think that would be the easiest way to teach it. I may try to improvise.


----------



## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Kloliver said:


> First of all.... most dogs don't know they have back feet. Big dogs often even less so. Just getting them to learn they do is sometimes a challenge. i wld start by having them learn to back up in a straight line. When you walk towards your dog to get him to backup, he does, but really he's just conscious of you in his space & trying to get out of the way.
> 
> Do you have an X pen? If so, then take it apart so its one long chain. Form it into a V or space ship shape. Put your dog inside the pen & you stand directly in front outside. When you back up he will try to move towards you but cannot, so they back up. Click even the tiniest flexing of the back leg muscles. Start to delay the click/ treat (C/T) until you get a full step. Then delay until you get 2 steps & so on.
> 
> Using the same gate form it in a circle. By stepping towards the dog at either his hip or shoulder (depending on whether you're teaching a fwd or back circle) you can easily shape this behaviour w/ no lures or body cues. Click even the tiniest flexing of the back leg muscles. Start to delay the click/ treat (C/T) until you get a full step. Then delay until you get 2 steps & so on. Make the circle bigger at first then smaller.


Hey, thanks for this!! I think I can train it following your clear, step-by-step instructions. I "home school" when it comes to training, and was long ago able to get Chagall to step backwards by walking toward him. He'll walk the length of the room in reverse, I use the command "back" or a hand signal. (He happens to_ really_ obey hand signals!) I first spent some time having him place his front paws on a little plastic stool (one my grandkids used when they were small to reach the sink), and had him circle around it using his back legs. Someone suggested that would help his "rear coordination." You motivated me take things to the next level and train him to circle around me in forward and reverse. He knows how to spin around on command, and weave between my legs. Once I get him to circle, we can take our dance routine on the road!! Luckily, we like the same dancing music.:dancing2:


----------



## Kloliver (Jan 17, 2012)

vicky2200 said:


> I don't have an x-pen, but I think that would be the easiest way to teach it. I may try to improvise.


Since you have a toy..... either Staples or Office Depot sell square powder coated wire mesh panels. Buy a bunch & zip tie them together. If I can find them online I'll post the link. I use these myself & are much cheaper than an Xpen- lighter too.



Chagall's mom said:


> I first spent some time having him place his front paws on a little plastic stool (one my grandkids used when they were small to reach the sink), and had him circle around it using his back legs. Someone suggested that would help his "rear coordination."


Oh yes, yes, yes.... pivot bowls are amazing tools for "I have back legs?" & for teaching really crisp 'heel' 'right' & 'front'. Video & Photo Gallery Wonder Dogs: Positive, Fun, Motivational Training for You and Your Dog (Philomath, Oregon)

I like heavier weighted plastic jobbies like Petco Heavyweight Blue Plastic Crock at PETCO in 2 sizes. Start bigger, progress to smaller.

So they don't slide, I tape, glue some Grip It Shelf and Drawer Liner to the rim that, when flipped upside down, sits on the floor.
Amazon.com: Grip It Shelf and Drawer Liner Black: Home & Kitchen


----------



## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Kloliver said:


> ...Oh yes, yes, yes.... pivot bowls are amazing tools for "I have back legs?" & for teaching really crisp 'heel' 'right' & 'front'.


*Kloliver*: Again, what a help you are!! It never occurred to me I could train a nice, close "heel" using my makeshift "pivot bowl" (the kiddie stool I use). Another great training tip from you!! As it happens, it's raining here today so you know what Chagall and I will be doing.:wink:


----------



## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

What a great thread!!! Hmmmm, my guess is Sunny would catch on quicker than I would as to how to train it though. I am going to try this this weekend! Thanks everyone.


----------



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

What a terrific video, Tortoise!


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

liljaker said:


> What a great thread!!! Hmmmm, my guess is Sunny would catch on quicker than I would as to how to train it though. I am going to try this this weekend! Thanks everyone.


Yes, that's true that the hardest part of training is learning how to communicate with your dog. I had a dog that I really struggled with training. Sometimes I would have to try several ways to teach a trick, but when I finally found a way she understood what I was asking her to do she was very willing and quick to learn.

I've struggled with teaching Jet also. It has delayed his training by months. Part of me is embarassed that he is not much further along in obedience training at his age. Some of the training methods that I've had bad or condescending attitude towards have ended up being the best for him. I used to think that touching a dog during training was a bad thing to do and that luring/baiting was purely sinful. (I exaggerate, lol). I used to want a perfectly "operant" dog and only use free shaping, splitting and chaining. I don't need a perfectly "thinking" dog, I just want a happy dog that does his job when I need him too. 

Molding and baiting really do work for him. When I give up my big fancy ideas and focus on my dog, training goes better. I have a video coming soon from tonight's training where I *gasp* lure him into position. And I go back to using a treat I am familiar in handling which helps my timing and his response.


----------



## Kloliver (Jan 17, 2012)

tortoise said:


> Yes, that's true that the hardest part of training is learning how to communicate with your dog. I had a dog that I really struggled with training. Sometimes I would have to try several ways to teach a trick, but when I finally found a way she understood what I was asking her to do she was very willing and quick to learn.
> [...]
> Molding and baiting really do work for him. When I give up my big fancy ideas and focus on my dog, training goes better. I have a video coming soon from tonight's training where I *gasp* lure him into position. And I go back to using a treat I am familiar in handling which helps my timing and his response.


LOL. Luring _definitely_ has it's place because not everything can be shaped or captured (darnit.)

I think that the mistake people often make is they jump ahead too quickly- they leap ahead from luring with food to changing the hand movement so drastically that's almost unrecognisable. 

*I* lure with food no more than 3x. Then I remove the food but keep the hand positioned _exactly_ as though there _IS_ food in it for 3-6 more repetitions. Only then do I start to smooth out the hand cue & start pairing the verbal.

:turtle: I apologise.


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Oh, no need to apologize. I insert my foot into my mouth frequently. 

I think people jump ahead to quickly no matter what the training method is. One of my repeat mistakes in clicker training is raising my criteria to quickly and then having a low rate of reward. (My last video!)

I admire your counting and planning with training. I bet it is very effective. Infortunately I lack that focus and get derailed very easily.

Here's tonight's video:


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Ooo.... getting to the fun part!


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

OK, I know nobidy watched those videos to the end because I didn't get any harassment over Jet's "naughty game". :lol:

We took time off. I tried a new treat a couple weeks ago that upset Jet's digestion. He's doing better and he wanted to train tonight. I wasn't planning on posting this video (wearing pajamas and all), but he made progress so I have to share.

I don't have to turn myself around now, he is doing the work of going around me now.

This is a short one!


----------

