# Understanding Puppy Food



## SmilesToday (Apr 11, 2021)

My breeder used Royal Canin puppy food and I have kept with it. My pup’s stools are well formed and small. His coat is shiny and thick. He is not scratchy and he is growing. I think he might go oversize for a miniature. All good things right? The trouble is Royal Canin is so expensive. I wonder if there is another choice. My vet says don’t use grain free especially for puppies. RC poodle puppy is 31% protein @$25 a bag. Purina Pro Plan small puppy is 33% protein @$20. Science Diet puppy is 25% protein @$18. My vet recommends these brands. They all say they are formulated to meet requirements for puppies. Is there an ideal protein % for a miniature? RC says to switch over to adult food at 10 months. Purina says 1 year. When should I switch? I did try Merreck Ancient Grains puppy food and he seemed to be wetting more frequently. You don’t need to increase the house training work! One night he wet 3 times in 15 minutes. After that I switched back to RC and wetting frequency immediately decreased. I think something in the food was irritating his bladder but I don’t know what. I am apprehensive about switching again. I would like to hear about other peoples experiences with puppy food and their transition to adult food.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Any well balanced (nutrition wise) quality puppy kibble will do. Most folks stick with whatever puppy is happy to eat! I've used Purina Pro Plan Puppy with Elroy (spoo). I switched to adult (Purina Pro Plan) at around 13½ months. I let him finish his 35# bag of kibble before switching, otherwise I would have switched anytime after 12 months.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I had my previous pair of standards poodles on ProPlan for the last few years of their lives; they did well on it. Unfortunately ProPlan disagreed with my current pair; it gave them gas and smelly soft stools. I blame the inulin fiber, but who knows. Personally, since your guy is doing well on Royal Canin, I'd stick with it until you are ready to switch him over to an adult food. I switched my guys off puppy food early than recommended (around 6 months) for various reasons, mostly involving the puppy wanting to share a bowl with the adult dog. I was using an all stages food for the adult dogs, so the nutrition wasn't too far out of whack for the puppies.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Can you comfortably afford this food? If so, I wouldn’t switch if your puppy is thriving.

But you could start introducing some other kibbles as training treats in low-distraction environments, keeping careful track of what you feed and when, so you can connect the dots should any worrying symptoms arise. Our local pet food store has loads of free samples available, in handful-sized packages.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

(And yes, what you or your puppy consumes can absolutely irritate the bladder. I learned this the hard way when I started drinking a daily glass of pineapple juice. Ouch.)


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## SmilesToday (Apr 11, 2021)

Why do you think Royal Canin charges so much? Because they can? They charge what the market can bare? Do they pay their workers more then the other pet food companies? Is it imported and shipping costs are high? This food does not have exotic ingredients. Because RC has so many varieties of food on offer you wind up paying for the variety? Combination of all the above reasons?


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

The best food is one your dog likes to eat, does well on, and that you can afford to feed. Royal Canin, Hills, and Pro Plan have a long history of being good foods, and at one time, they, along with Iams and Eukanuba, were probably about the best foods out there. There has been a veritable explosion of dog food brands in the past few decades, though. 

If the Royal Canin is at the extreme upper end of your price range, or even just out of it, then switching foods to something less pricey is fine as long as it also meets the first two requirements. If you have a Tractor Supply Co. store near you, then their 4Health brand is a pretty decent food for the price. If you order from Chewy, then their American Journey food would be an option. 

I've fed an all life stages food (Blackwood Sensitive Salmon & Brown Rice) to my SPoo puppy since he was about four or five months old (easier to feed all three dogs the same thing). My GSD was raised on adult food from the get-go. Both my Rat Terrier and mutt were raised on puppy food, and switched to adult food at around a year. Not a clue what my APBT was raised on, but she's been eating adult food since I got her at about ten months old. 

If you calculate the cost per feeding, it might surprise you to find that feeding a more expensive food might actually cost less per feeding than a cheaper food. Make “Cents” of Your Pet Food Budget by Calculating Pet Food Costs


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

I think RC has veterinarians and other experts on staff, and they work to maintain high standards. I don't feed it to my Poodle, but fed their Rx cat food for a few years. It helped save my then cat's life and cured his crystals ❤‍🩹❤.

Years ago during the melamine troubles so many companies experienced, I rang them and they actually passed me through to one of their vets. He was very real with me, very straightforward and honest in tone, and even expressed his personal worries about his pet cats at home, whom he fed Royal Canin.

I have a high opinion of this company, and suspect they have a lot of expertise on board. And that takes money.


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## SmilesToday (Apr 11, 2021)

He does like to eat it and he does well on it. I just wanted to try and understand the why of pricing. I did not want to be overpaying. If it is an import shipping challenge maybe a domestic prepared food would be a better choice. I did notice the recommended amount to feed him is less then other brands. That fact does make it more affordable. Royal Canin does have good perscription food. I fed the hepatic food to my previous poodle with the liver shunt for many years. He did well on it. You are right. That prescription food research does have to be paid for.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

I hope the risk is worth the reward. We tried going really cheap and it's not worth it. Basil's diet is really clean and she has a cooked chicken breast every day with breakfast. Her diet costs ~$3/day. 

It's either $3/day on food or diarrhea at 2am - the choice was easy.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

RC is owned by the Mars Corporation, which also owns a number of other dog food, human food, and even veterinary/medical care services. They have several manufacturing plants in the US and Canada, and I believe in Europe. I'd expect the food sold in the US to come from the US plants. 

Their dog food products are very specialist-driven, life-stage, breed, health conditions, size, which requires specialists in the fields of nutrition and research, in addition to infrastructure, quality, safety, the workers in all stages of production, all the usual suspects. 

This might partly explain why their food costs more, but yeah, theirs isn't the only quality, well researched and formulated food brand out there. 

When to switch is going to differ based on the individual company's formulas and research. 
Puppy of all breeds go thru their most rapid growth in these first months. Puppies need the higher protein and fat to fuel that growth (large breeds will have a different need here). 

This is a chart showing typical miniature growth patterns for height and weight.









My vet recommended staying on puppy food til around 1y old. You want to keep the fuel available in the right formula to help maintain healthy growth. 

The whole field of dog health has changed dramatically in the last couple of decades. Because of this, there are a number of companies producing quality foods. 

You've already noticed that the RC guidelines suggest lower amounts than some other foods. They're more calorie dense with useful nutritional elements. Less needs to come in to get all the nutrients into the body, and something I noticed when stepping up my boys food was that less was coming out . 

I'm not touting RC. I feed a different brand but it's from a company that also employs veterinary nutritionists and is generating research. 

You'll usually, sensibly, hear "if it ain't broke..." but keeping costs lower is understandable. If you ask for brand recommendations, you'll get about as many different ones as folks responding. 

Look for companies meeting the AAFCO guidelines and that have on staff or work with veterinary nutritionists to develop the various formulas. Then, as THh says


TeamHellhound said:


> The best food is one your dog likes to eat, does well on, and that you can afford to feed


I started my boys on two different brands of puppy foods with two different protein sources (which might be an option for you). When it was time to transition one of the made it clear that he was no longer interested in one of the protein sources, so we went on a long quest for a new food. 

Finally, I found one that he liked! I still intend to add another kibble protein source to rotate but logistics aren't sorted. Instead, I change up their single brand of kibble by adding a very small portion of whatever protein we had for dinner into their meals, along with a dash of warm, filtered water to au jus it up.


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## SmilesToday (Apr 11, 2021)

Thank you for your informative post Rose N Poos. Lots of good advice. Basil what you are doing is good too. My childhood dog was a spaniel mix in the 1960’s. My mom cooked chicken for him too. He lived to be a few weeks shy of 18. The vet said he was the oldest dog in his practice when he passed of a stroke.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

These might be helpful too.

*Why you shouldn’t judge a pet food by its ingredient list*
*by Clinical Nutrition Team
JUNE 21, 2016*

Although ingredient lists are commonly used by pet owners and most pet food rating sites to determine the quality of pet foods, this approach has many pitfalls and usually is not a good way to select a food.
There are specific regulations that govern how ingredient lists must be presented on the label. Ingredients must be listed in order of weight, including water, so ingredients with high water content (like fresh meats and vegetables) are going to be listed higher than similar amounts of dry ingredients even though they may contribute fewer nutrients to the overall diet. So a diet with chicken (70% water) as the first ingredient may have less actual chicken than a diet that has chicken meal (< 10% moisture) as the second or third ingredient. Additionally, ingredients from the same source (i.e. chicken meat, chicken fat, chicken by-product meal) can be split into component parts, further complicating assessment of how much of each ingredient is actually present in the diet.
Many pet food manufacturers take pains to make sure that their ingredient list is appealing to pet owners. They know that many pet owners are looking for meat as the first ingredient, so they may use just enough fresh meat to get it listed first on the ingredient list. Some manufacturers may add ingredients to diets solely for marketing purposes, to increase the appeal of the diet to consumers. These ingredients may have unproven benefits, be present in miniscule amounts, and provide nothing to the diet but added expense. More ingredients also mean more quality control (and more time and expense) is necessary to ensure that the finished product adheres to the desired nutrient formulation.
One good example of adding ingredients to a diet solely to make the diet sound more appealing is ingredient lists that have fruits and vegetables or other whole foods listed after the salt or other vitamin and mineral supplements. These ingredients may be present in the diet in amounts less than a few grams per pound of food (amounts that we call “fairy dust”) and are often contributing no measurable nutrients, yet the food looks more appealing to pet owners because it has fruits and vegetables.
Also beware of companies using the term “human grade” to describe their ingredients, as to use this term, _all_ of the ingredients, as well as the final product, must be “stored, handled, processed, and transported” in ways that meet federal regulations for human foods. If the entire food isn’t human edible, then companies should not be claiming that individual ingredients are. Once an ingredient is destined for inclusion in pet food, then it is no longer fit for human consumption by definition, unless it never leaves the human food chain and the pet food is made in a human food plant. More importantly, ingredients sourced from the human food chain are not necessarily any more nutritious, wholesome, or safe than ingredients initially destined for pet food. Therefore, manufacturer’s claims of “human grade” ingredients should be taken with a grain of salt at best.
In summary, while we may feel better about feeding a diet full of great-sounding ingredients, these diets are usually similar or even potentially less nutritious than diets containing less appealing (to people) ingredients. There is no way to determine diet quality from the label or the ingredient list. The only thing that is certain is that you will pay more for the food with the more appealing ingredient list. It’s critical to have high quality ingredients and to have a company that has the expertise to put them together in a way that meets all your pet’s nutritional needs. However, this isn’t something you can tell from the ingredient list. Think of it this way – a terrible cook can make even the most expensive ingredients inedible, while an excellent cook can work magic with basic ingredients.
Don’t worry about whether the ingredient list of your pet’s food sounds like something you’d eat in a gourmet restaurant – look for more useful information on the label so you don’t get tricked by ingredient lists. This will help you to select the food that is truly best for your pet – not just the one with the best marketing!

Why you shouldn’t judge a pet food by its ingredient list – Clinical Nutrition Service at Cummings School (tufts.edu)


Pet Food Labels - General | FDA


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