# Embark dog DNA test kits



## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

If you choose the Embark Purebred test, the testing will cover some DNA testing specific to the poodle breed and a lot that's not particularly relevant for poodles.

I chose this test for my boys (then known as their Purebred test) to get more poodle specific results.

It also identifies breed (there's some tricky bits along with that but if both parents are purebred, and all their parents are purebred, it will most likely be a 100% poodle result).











The PRA should be a part of that Embark kit.

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What you're _not _getting is the full recommended health testing of the dogs before being bred and a very new breeder who doesn't seem to follow the Poodle Club of America guidelines.

You can find some very good breeders in the AKC Marketplace and GoodDog, but be aware that AKC _does not vet _these breeders beyond the selling of AKC registered dogs. All they need to do is pay the listing fee and sell registered dogs. Sadly, even high volume breeders could do that.

If the breeder is asking $2000 or up, there are other breeders with more experience, doing all the recommended health testing, showing their dogs in confirmation to prove that they meet the breed standard, or at least engaging in some sort of competitions to prove the soundness of their dogs, that are probably within your reach financially and geographically.

(ETA I see that they are asking varying prices for different puppies, from $2200 to $2900 to $3200 and Wowza up to $3500 on their Marketplace listing! The varying prices are a caution flag, and in that price range you can definitely find a breeder more suited.)

It sounds like you are really wanting a healthy puppy with lovely temperament from proven parents, and a proven breeder.

We can help with that . Just ask!


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

You didn't say if this would be your first poodle or first search for a quality, conscientious breeder, so I'll add the tips list, jic. 

It can be helpful as a reminder even if you've recently gone thru this and especially if this is new to you or has been some years. Things have changed.
There are more For-Profit breeders who are learning to use the language of quality, conscientious breeders but are not investing the time and money to back up the words.

You can also read information directly from one of our members who is a very well-respected breeder here.

A quality breeder isn't location dependent. Their characteristics are the same everywhere.


*We often hear from folks that they just want a pet.*
What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that quality, conscientious breeders are _always _breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions but are flawless to us .
Outside of covid, these breeders will almost always welcome, even encourage, home visits to see the puppies and dam in person and see how they live.

*It's not unusual to think that there are possibly thousands of breeders to choose from.*
For quality, conscientious breeders, that number is more likely only in the hundreds in the US and Canada. A bottom-line difference is between those who are breeding primarily for profit and those who are breeding because they feel not only love for poodles but an obligation to the entire breed. Each of their, usually infrequent, breeding's are thoughtfully chosen to try to improve something in their lines and consequently the future of the breed.

*About reviews*,
a happy owner doesn't necessarily mean an informed owner. It's as likely they've just been lucky, so far. Review any negative comments carefully, if they're allowed to appear.

*Getting a puppy from a quality, conscientious breeder is something like insurance.*
Their investment in the health, welfare, and soundness of all the dogs in their care including the puppies they offer to new homes is part of the reason you're not likely to find a less than $2000 USD puppy from them.

*The saying is "pay the breeder or pay the vet".*
Price alone isn't the only thing to separate quality breeders from those less than. We've seen members quote as high, and even much higher pricing for pups from parents not health tested, not proven to meet breed standards, sold as purebred when only a DNA test could determine that since they may be sold without registration papers.

If I knew the risks and have dedicated poodle health savings of several thousand dollars or pet insurance, knew that basically that the breeder and I would part ways as soon as the pup was in my hands because they're very unlikely to stand behind their pup and me thru the pup's life, I might proceed with a breeder that doesn't meet my criteria.

But

_I also wouldn't pay quality breeder prices, and over, unless I'm getting all the quality breeder perks._


*Doing the PCA recommended health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder. *The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

*Look for and verify OFA/CHIC level testing at a minimum. The recommended testing by The Poodle Club of America is a mix of physical exams and, for each variety, there are also recommended DNA tests.*

The OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) registers testing from other countries as well as from the US.

There are additional poodle specific DNA panels for other testable genetic conditions.
Those are companion tests with the OFA/CHIC testing, not in place of.

CHIC Program | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)
Browse By Breed | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)


Toy Poodle recommended testing from the PCA with results listed on OFA

*Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)*
DNA-based test from an approved laboratory; results registered with OFA ➚
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Patellar Luxation*
OFA Evaluation, minimum age 1 year ➚
Miniature Poodle (just in case you expand your choices)

*Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)*
DNA-based test from an approved laboratory; results registered with OFA ➚
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Patellar Luxation*
OFA evaluation, minimum age 1 year ➚
*Hip Dysplasia* (One of the following)
OFA Evaluation ➚
PennHIP Evaluation
The PCA Foundation strongly recommends the DNA test for Miniature Poodle Dwarfism (Osteochondrodysplasia) to avoid breeding two carriers to each other and producing puppies affected with this deforming and crippling disorder. Research suggests that about 10 percent of Minis carry the mutation that causes this disease and that it is not limited to a few bloodlines.

The PRA test is a DNA test. The others are physical exams done by a qualified vet.
The DNA panels are nice and have helpful info but should not be accepted as the only health testing.

Standard Poodle

*Hip Dysplasia* (One of the following)
OFA Evaluation ➚
PennHIP Evaluation
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Health Elective* (One of the following)
OFA Thyroid evaluation from an approved laboratory ➚
OFA SA Evaluation from an approved dermapathologist ➚
Congenital Cardiac Exam ➚
Advanced Cardiac Exam ➚
Basic Cardiac Exam ➚
The PCA Foundation recommends all three electives for Standard Poodles and also strongly recommends the following DNA tests from an OFA listed lab to easily avoid breeding two mutation carriers to each other and producing affected puppies: DNA Test for Neonatal Encephalopathy with Seizures (NEwS) and DNA Test for vonWillebrand’s Disease (vWD)


*A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy*
doesn't have much to back it if the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety recommended by the Poodle Club of America. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

*Read thru any contracts that may be listed*.
If they rule out coverage for health conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?
For example, some breeders require that a specific food be bought and fed, often thru them, or the health warranty is curtailed or voided entirely.

*Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times*
and that wait is often 6m to a year. These breeders aren't pumping out puppies for profit.
There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs, 9-5 paying job, and family, rather than keep a website updated.

*When you start making contacts*, let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.

*Color preferences* are understandable but keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies.
That beautiful color you fell for may not look the same in a few weeks, or months, or years. *Most poodle colors fade.

Gender preferences* will also limit your options.

*Temperament and personality* are lifelong traits.

*Be prepared to spend* in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

*Be prepared to travel* outside your preferred area.

*As a very general rule, websites to be leery of are*
those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience". A breeder using marketing terms like teacup, royal, giant don't really know poodles in relation to the breed standard. Pricing differently for size or color is also marketing.

*Be wary of a breeder who sells a puppy with full registration rights
(*breeding rights which allow the next generation of pups to be registered with the AKC) simply for the price of admission. A responsible breeder will not allow their reputation and their poodles to be bred by anyone, to any dog, without having a contractual say in the breeding and the pups. They will want to be involved.

*When looking at online sites, it's not just what you see, it's often what you don't see that's most important.*
Is the dam (and sire) also listed on the site, with full registry name and OFA testing?

*One additional caution, be very wary of those very cute short legged poodles.*
That's a genetic mutation which may carry serious life-altering disease.

An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. An online search for "Poodle Club of ___ (your city or state/province)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

PCA National Breeder Referral - The Poodle Club of America

Search for Local Clubs/Breeders - The Poodle Club of America

West of the Mississippi Breeder List
Microsoft Word - breeder_members_west_mississippi_may_12_2022.docx (poodleclubofamerica.org)

East of the Mississippi
pca_active_breeder_members_east_of_mississippi_march_17_2022.pdf (poodleclubofamerica.org)
Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.


As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, this is my shortlist criteria.

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come.
_Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is well bred._


Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time 

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards physically and temperamentally and are sound by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.


To start a search for a breeder, use the official Poodle Clubs first. PF has a lot of resources to view also, and individual recommendations will be made too. Compare those to the information above for a good shot at a quality, conscientious breeder and a happy, healthy poodle.

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A note on "Champion bloodlines" or variations of...

The phrase "Championship _lines_" is nearly meaningless unless, as Phaz23 points out, the dam and sire are the champions, and their dams and sires...

"Championship" counts in the conformation ring, to prove that each generation is meeting the breed standard. It's not a given, an inherent trait that gets passed down.

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A quality conscientious breeder doesn't have to be a PCA member to follow the Code of Ethics. I believe that every breeder should.
Code of Ethics - The Poodle Club of America


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

I certainly can't add anything to Rose's post. She's far more knowledgeable than me.

When I decided on a Standard Poodle, I did various searches on the internet and came across GoodDog.com. I live in Southern California but I was willing to go as far east as Arizona and as far north as Washington State. Rather than using the GoodDog service (they charge a fee), I went to the various websites of the breeders and made some phone calls. I was able to find a good breeder (in my opinion) within about a two hour drive. I visited and immediately fell in love with the puppies. There was a wait list, but a few people dropped out so I confirmed to the breeder with a 10% deposit that I wanted one of the females. I couldn't decide which one so I told the breeder my lifestyle, what I was looking for in the way of a companion dog, etc. The breeder chose one for me. The breeder was spot on. On the breeder's website was posted the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) general health results and the Embark DNA results for the dam. So, it wasn't a total crap shoot. I later tested Rhonda;s DNA through Embark and got pretty much the same results as her mom. And yes, Embark will tell you if your pup is 100% poodle.


So, I think it's pretty important to do some research before getting into this. There are some unscrupulous breeders out there, and it's important to find a good one. A lot of people on this site can help with that.


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## chan11 (3 mo ago)

Thanks so much for the answers.
We Live in Southern California in Riverside County.
This will be our first dog for my 8 yo son who has been begging for a Brown Puppy for more than a year. He calls himself a dog lover and wants to pet every dog he sees and compliments everyone with a dog. He has moderate dog allergy, so do I. But we really need to get him a dog that is at possibly Hypo-allergenic. That is why we are looking for a Toy Poodle. We almost bought a poodle online but I figured they were getting there dog from some breeder in Midwest- seemed like a puppy mill. But website was very deceptive. 
Dog does not have to be a perfect Dog show level dog but healthy Dog who can be a good companion. I have been doing some online reading to educate self. I hear OFA, CHIC, genetic testing etc being mentioned but I am trying wrap my head around all this.
Once we bring a dog home, we won’t be able to return it no matter what – I know it will be cruel to my son therefore my apprehension. I will really appreciate if I could get some REFERRAL FOR A GOOD BREEDER in California. I am willing to travel as well. Or even have the puppy fly to California if that is a reasonable thing to do. But Local would be better in the off chance my son has significant allergic reactions. I emailed San Diego breeder club and some other clubs nearby, but nothing panned out. 
This dog breeder is asking for 3.5K. he lists himself as Yanni’s Poodle on AKC marketplace. I am willing to spend up to 4K if that gives more assurance regarding the health of the dog. We are going to go see the puppies tomorrow – 9-week-old brown/reddish Toy poodle. He allows 1 month return but I do not think we can send a puppy back once we bring one home.
Thanks RosenPoos about the information you posted. I will read it. 
Based on my situation - What specific Questions should I ask the breeder tomorrow? the most relevant ones at least- that will be be helpful. 
If the parents of the dog have no genetic defect, should the puppies still be tested? I can offer to pay for genetic test if it is a cheek swab.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I've only skimmed so don't have full answers yet but a few things jump out.


I would never choose this breeder for myself and so could not possibly recommend them to anyone else. I don't have a long history of poodles from quality, conscientious breeders and those hard lessons are why I hope that others will hear me when I say

Do Not Settle.

I'd already found the breeder info, such little as is available online. $3500, far too much for what I see offered, is as much or more than you would pay for a puppy from correctly health-tested parents, proven to meet the breed standard and bred for temperament. If these things are a priority, this is not your breeder.

The correct testing for toys is only one DNA test, the PRA test. The other two are for a yearly eye exam to avoid conditions that there are no genetic tests for, and knees/patellas.

If dogs with luxating patellae are bred, that can mean several thousands of dollars per knee for correcting surgery. Dogs don't die from this, they just can't live like normal dogs.

I understand that you've been waiting. Quality breeders are not volume breeders. They have wait lists because they may only breed 1 time, maybe two times a year, if that much. Puppies always available, or available monthly is a big caution flag. These folks are breeding as a business. If they truly cared about the future of the breed, they would invest in the proper health testing and prove their dogs are meeting the breed standard.

You are making a lifetime commitment. For toys, that's often 15y and more. As much as a puppy is wanted you don't want to make the wrong decision just because this puppy is available right now, and you can afford it, right now.

Do you know that most poodle colors fade? This reddish brown puppy is likely to look very different in a few months. I understand having color preferences but health and temperament need to be your priority.

Toys can also be rather fragile, especially the smaller they are bred. Easily broken bones can be another concern. You want to meet the dam at least, also the sire if on site (not necessarily a good sign), and see their color, their height, their weight, and how they behave. You want to see poodles of 8-10" at the shoulder, and probably 8-9lbs.

Have you looked a miniatures also? They're generally less fragile.

The best "pet" puppies come from breeders who show their dogs, and those "show" dogs are also someone's beloved pet.

From one of our breeder/members, FarleysD:

_When evaluating a dog for breeding I reference an equilateral triangle,,,,,, all three sides of this decision must be equal, the three sides are * health *temperament * conformation. Each are equally important:

Health -- I want a healthy dog in my life, I want my dog to live a long, happy, and carefree life. (Testing is important)
Temperament -- My dog will live in my house with me and my family, I must have a good dog that I never worry will be disruptive in any manner. (Temperament testing is important)
Conformation -- the make and shape of the dog also impacts 'form and function' form and function will also determine how this puppy will be able to move and live a daily existence. (Evaluation is important)

To what end: I cannot keep, show, or breed, every dog in the litter, what is important to me will benefit the people that wish to have one of my dogs. I do not know which puppy I will keep until the day of my "puppy pick" so each puppy will be raised as the one who will potentially be the one that stays. Each puppy will receive the "military training exercises," (now known as early neurological stimulation exercises) temperament testing at 49 days old, and show evaluation at 8 weeks old. I can only keep one, so the rest are raised as if they are going to stay.

ALL POODLES ARE IMPORTANT: Confirmation flaws just separate the ones that go into the show ring and will eventually be bred. I don't like it when someone states the are 'just looking for a pet' every drop of love and respect should be given to each dog, show or companion, for once a show dog is retired from the ring, it is still my companion.

Is conformation important? short answer , Yes. Is conformation showing important? Yes, this help determine health, temperament, and conformation.

--- _

Even if your son doesn't react to one poodle doesn't mean he won't to others. Poodles aren't non-allergenic, they are low allergenic, and we have members that still must take precautions, meds, air purifiers, no licking...there are threads on this. Search "allergies" and look for some personal experiences from members.

Puppies aren't tested by the breeder, only the breeding dogs, so that's really too late if you think testing after the fact will help. It takes several weeks to get the results and runs around $150.

Much safer to find a breeder who's doing things right from the start.

A quality breeder does the recommended health testing, also tests temperament of the puppies so there will be a good energy match, and they will offer support to you all thru that puppy's whole life.

You can get much more for your $3500.

Some additional Poodle Club links are in here, and some breeder names also. We've had several members recently get puppies from Ash's Mystical Poodles in Nevada. They are a larger breeder but are a quality breeder.

(8) 🐩 Breeders Listed by Location 🐩 Plus Additional Resources 🐩 | Poodle Forum


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

All of what @Rose n Poos said, and please call Mary Olund, who is the Western half of the U.S. breed referral person for the Poodle Club of America. She's up here in NorCal, and won't steer you wrong.

Number in the link:








PCA National Breeder Referral - The Poodle Club of America


On this page...Breeder Referral ContactsPCA National Breeder Members Lists Breeder Referral Contacts Breeder referral West of the Mississippi: Mary OlundPhone: (415) 457-4648Send email to: [email protected] calls from 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Pacific time Breeder referral...




poodleclubofamerica.org


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

It may be too late but probably the most important thing to you would be to ask to see the health guarantee.
By not testing per the recommendations, I would expect that coverage for patellae and eye conditions other than the PRA would be excluded, That's another flag.

Some breeders exclude patellae because "this can be caused by an injury", which is true, but it can also be a congenital condition. If the parents have been evaluated by a certified vet and have good knees then the pup will probably inherit good kness. If the parents didn't have good knees, even breeding them could be considered irresponsible, without excellent understanding of genetics and a definite plan to improve.

Do they require you to feed a certain food, with the health guarantee dependent on that to honor? What if the pup doesn't tolerate that food well as he/she grows?

A guarantee for "...genetic conditions" of 1-2 years is almost without value as many genetic issues don't present until the pup is mature.

For you, are you prepared for the daily combing and brushing? Bathing every two weeks? Doing the clipping yourself or paying for a groomer, up 1o possibly $100 every 4-8 weeks?

Do you have a vet lined up? A groomer? Appointments for both are hard to find and often are booked out for months.

Since this would be your first dog, puppy kindergarten classes are highly, highly recommended. Look for classes thru the AKC. There should be some in your area,

Poodle puppies are known as Land Sharks. Puppies explore the world thru their mouths and their teeth are verrrry sharp. Search PF for "Land SHark". Since they can't "speak" any human language, they communicate with the sounds they have available to them. A heads up that a puppy growling is rarely "aggression" (deliberate intent to harm). Growling is a way of communicating discomfort.

And these resources to help you prepare, whether now or in the future. Thank you to Liz for compiling these!

*While You're Waiting for Your New Puppy to Come Home*
Whether you are eagerly awaiting the arrival of puppies or have already come home with an adult dog and are wondering what you've gotten yourself into, this is where to start. Between shopping trips for essentials items and puppy-proofing your home, here is some reading to get you in the mindset of life with your new dog:

Whole Dog Journal: Kidnapped From Planet Dog
Eileenanddogs: Life Lessons For My Puppy
Ian Dunbar: Before You Get Your Puppy
Ian Dunbar: After You Get Your Puppy
* Word About Housetraining*
A perennial topic, careful management of your new dog's access to space in your house during the first few weeks will prevent dreaded accidents and teach your dog the boundaries of their new home.

Ian Dunbar: Errorless Housetraining
Much more here
(8) Pandemic Puppy Primer | Poodle Forum


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

chan11 said:


> We almost bought a poodle online but I figured they were getting there dog from some breeder in Midwest- seemed like a puppy mill. But website was very deceptive.


Your instincts are good. 



chan11 said:


> We are going to go see the puppies tomorrow


How did the visit go? Do you have a puppy or more to think about?


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## chan11 (3 mo ago)

We did not get go see the puppies after all. His dam was in labor. Most his puppies were sold already! It seems like people do not care that much. But We decided not to get the dog from him. he did not respond to my question regarding parents genetic / health testing. I ended up talking with Ann from Clarion Poodles - She seems like a responsible breeder and has good reviews on this forum. I will contact Gail Zamora and Ash's Mystical Poodles tomorrow. My kid is fixated on Red/Apricot color dog. Color ought to be the last on the list of preferences and requirements- but he has his kid fantasy. I am told that red color poodles are a new phenomenon or are at least rare. 


Are Miniature poodles in general healthier than Toy Poodles? 
It may be a a hearsay on this forum - But what are people's thoughts about the cross breeds such as Maltipoo, Cavapoo?


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

chan11 said:


> We decided not to get the dog from him. he did not respond to my question regarding parents genetic / health testing.


I hope you understand when I say I'm relieved. Not answering your question sounds like it was all the answer you needed to know whether to proceed.



chan11 said:


> I ended up talking with Ann from Clarion Poodles - She seems like a responsible breeder and has good reviews on this forum. I will contact Gail Zamora and Ash's Mystical Poodles tomorrow


Every one of them is a great choice. You may find that you "click" better with one. That feeling of connection is a great thing to have because these are the level of breeders who will stand behind you and your pup and will be happy to help you with questions thru your pups lifetime.
I had one set of girls from a conscientious breeder. We've stayed in contact thru our girls lives and beyond.



chan11 said:


> My kid is fixated on Red/Apricot color dog. Color ought to be the last on the list of preferences and requirements- but he has his kid fantasy.


There's really no reason that you can't have it all, but you might need to wait a bit for the stars to align.

Color preferences are almost inevitable and understandable. Just remember that the red/apricot colors, and others, almost always fade.

My little guy went from









to









in just 10 months.



chan11 said:


> I am told that red color poodles are a new phenomenon or are at least rare.


Not really "new" in an immediately new sense, and not really "rare".
There are so many for-profit breeders cashing in on the trend that it's hard not to trip over them but these won't be well bred. Well bred is harder to find.

Well bred is very different from purebred. Well bred is what you're looking for by focusing on the right health testing, sound structure, sound temperament, the things that make a poodle unmistakably a poodle. The breeders who are doing this, not for profit, but because they not only love their poodles, they love the breed and are doing what they can to improve the breed for the future.
Well bred.

The Apricot Red Poodle Club Apricot Red Poodle Club - Red Apricot Poodle Club
has some info on how the red poodle came to be.
History (apricotredpoodleclub.com)
Red Standard History (apricotredpoodleclub.com)

The AKC didn't add red to accepted colors until 1980.

Tangent - most poodle colors are in a spectrum, not truly distinct but a family of colors.
Here's my go-to for a laymans overview of poodle colora
POODLE COAT COLORS: OVERVIEW OF ALL COLORS (tripod.com)
POODLE COAT COLORS: RED, APRICOT &amp; CREAM (tripod.com)
COLOR BREEDING IN POODLES (tripod.com)




chan11 said:


> Are Miniature poodles in general healthier than Toy Poodles?


I don't really think so. Miniatures are probably a bit more robust. I happen to love that size, all mine have been. I'm comfortable with them jumping up and down on furniture, and less concerned that I'll step on them and break them.

Be very cautious of the short-legged poodles of any variety. That's a genetic mutation that carries a great risk of lifelong health problems.

A poodle should stand square.









My about 13" at the shoulder, 13lb miniature poodle

At the kitchen table










His bigger brother, still an in-size mini.










the stepstool is 9" high










I'm 5' 3"




















For general health, all purebred and even mixed breed dogs are subject to various known conditions. Popular knowledge is that crossbred dogs are healthier but once you realize that a cross is mix of two or more purebred dogs, you see that they have as much potential for inherited conditions.

The health testing I noted above adds some recommended testing to the miniatures but while these are known issues, they are neither common or likely.

Health testing is like insurance rather than a 100% guarantee. This is because there are many more known conditions, just like in humans, but not many have definitive DNA testing which is why the other conditions require actual physical exams.





chan11 said:


> It may be a a hearsay on this forum - But what are people's thoughts about the cross breeds such as Maltipoo, Cavapoo?


LOL, kind of, but it's not the dogs, it's the breeders. I touched on some concerns above. If people breeding for profit aren't inclined to do the proper health testing for the breed, what's the likelihood they'll do the testing for two breeds? Adhere to the breed standard of which breed?

The Poodle Club of America has it written into their Code of Ethics that no breeder will ever deliberately allow their dogs to be crossbred. That does nothing to improve the poodle and doesn't help their reputation.

This is also why any breeder that sells pups with full registration, which means that pup can be bred and resulting pups can be AKC registered, but without retaining a legal say in who that dog is bred to, also doesn't care about improving the breed. Have you ever wondered how puppy mills can sell AKC registered pups? That's how.

This also means that any breeder breeding crosses is not going to have the best dogs to breed so it's often a downward spiral. That said, most of us have had and loved to distraction one or more crossbred dogs in our lives.

All that said, certain crosses such as the two you mentioned are more likely to produce dogs with fewer structural issues. They're similar in size but you'd still want to be familiar with the known health issues. Cavaliers have some very serious health concerns, so I'd be wary on that side.


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