# Curious about 'Anti-Doodle" movement?



## Stacydub

I hear a lot of bad talk about breeding poodles to other random breeds (yorkies, Labs, ect ect ect) What's the big push behind people AGAINST "designer breeders" and why the sudden fad? What's the story there?

Not wanting to open any cans of worms here....just honestly curious for an honest, educated opinion.


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## Emily-By

Because most of them are not health tested, mutts with a high price tag. there is nothing a doodle can do that an already established breed cannot. bunch of BYB and puppymills mostly trying to move their 'product' for a higher price...


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## aki

Besides health testing, which I'm sure a good portion of people selling doodles for top dollar DO NOT do, you also have the problem with consistency.

You never really know what your going to get, especially 1-2 years after the fact. You go into a pet store and buy this cute little doodle puppy that supposedly doesn't shed but has the personality of a Lab or Golden Retriever, and lo and behold 2 years later you have a dog that sheds and is hyperactive. There is too much inconsistency between the temperament and the looks of the produced dog. Not to mention we really don't know what problems health-wise can arise from these breeding's. IMO most aren't too nice to look at either, especially when these conflicting features of each dog come together.

I honestly don't see the point. Supposedly they were originally bred as sight dogs which don't shed, but a Poodle is perfectly capable of that job, so why not just train a Poodle? It really doesn't make any sense.


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## Harley_chik

The attitude of the breeders and owners is what bugs me the most. The driving force behind DD (designer dogs) is $$$$$. People are beginning to hear more and more about health testing, so the greeders answer is to claim hybrids are healthier. They all have this idea that their mutts are superior to the shelter dogs and purebreds alike. They are too lazy to research breeders and too full of themselves to consider rescue. Yet they will turn around and call someone who disagrees with DD breeding a snob. I belong to a groomer forum and many "Doodle" owners are neglectful and the breeders are flat out liars. The dogs are sold as "non-shedding" (if you mix it w/ a heavy shedder like a lab there is no way all the pups will not shed) and easy to maintain. The owners then bring a disgustingly matted dog to a groomer and demand the dog be dematted b/c "the breeder says they should never be shaved and only need to be groomed once or twice a year." Then the owners whine, when the dog looks like a poodle. Um, they are at least 1/2 Poodle, they are most certainly going to look similar.


Most people involved DDs are flat out ignorant. They use argument like "mixed breeds are healthier" and "all dogs started out as mutts." Yes all breeds we have now may have started out as a mixture, but they have been refined and those breeders had a clear goal in mind. They had clear needs for working dogs and were affected by geography. Now days no one "needs" a gun dog and if they need a herding dog, they are usually plent available. If not they're just a flight away. I honestly don't have a problem w/ people crossbreeding for working purposes though. Anotolian/pyrenees crosses are popular amongst farmers and ranchers in West Texas. (Anatolians aren't that common and Pyrs are a bit watered down.) They are bred according to working ability and sold to working homes for fair prices.

Now days, there are millions of dogs being put to sleep every year for no other reason than they don't have a home. Plenty of these dogs are DDs. In my area, there are at least 3 "doodles" for every one purebred Poodles on Petfinder. There is no reason to breed a dog unless they add something to the breed. (I feel the same way about purebreds btw.) If these DD people were serious they would come up with goals before they ever bred a dog, they would start working on a standard and starting a breed club. Yes there are a few clubs, but they were formed for the purpose of getting more money. They aren't opperated at all like real breed clubs. You also can't start a new breed by continually producing F1 (first generation) crosses.


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## roxy25

I agree what all have said


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## Cdnjennga

Harley_chik said:


> Now days, there are millions of dogs being put to sleep every year for no other reason than they don't have a home. Plenty of these dogs are DDs. In my area, there are at least 3 "doodles" for every one purebred Poodles on Petfinder. There is no reason to breed a dog unless they add something to the breed. (I feel the same way about purebreds btw.)


I so agree with this.  There's enough dogs out there already. Breed only if you can bring something positive to the breed. Otherwise speuter and just enjoy your dog as a fantastic pet.


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## aki

Cdnjennga said:


> I so agree with this.  There's enough dogs out there already. Breed only if you can bring something positive to the breed. Otherwise speuter and just enjoy your dog as a fantastic pet.


I like that! Speuter. It's catchy lol.


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## Harley_chik

I also want to add that if the DD breeders were really interested in creating a new breed, they would quietly place most of their pups in loving pet homes(for a very small fee, if not free) and keep those that met their goals to continue their lines. Instead they start selling for top dollar from the first litter.


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## roxy25

I would like to add The usa Doodle people are way behind. In AU they at least have a breed club and have formed a standard they also have many generations of Doodles not just first crosses like 99.9 % of the USA breeders are doing. 

I have said it once and I will say it again why breed one of the world's smartest dog to a dog that is just easy to train ? lol  The poodle is perfect already.


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## cybercat

There is so much misinformation out there for pet buyers to shift thru most do not bother. Most of these dogs are impulse buys. The fact that we call them DD does not help either for it makes them sound fancy. Most of these so called breeders as has been said lie to owners. As a pro groomer that has had to deal with these dogs and owners it is hard. But I make it my business to set facts straight so these people do not talk others into there misguided buying.

For one thing many never realize how big these dogs get or how hairy. Most grow bigger than parents with hair twice as long. They are higher maintanince than poodles even because of the hair type. We charge more for them than poodles too since they are such hand fulls. Unlike good poodle breeder these pups have no grooming training when they come to see us. You wonder why so many of these dogs end up n the shelter one reason is the price of their grooming the other they are wild. Many wanted a small dog and have no clue how to handle a dog the size of most doodles.

Even the smaller poodle mixes grow bigger than the parents. Multi poos are not toys by weight. When people buy these mixes they think they nonallergiy of the poodle will carry over for that is what the so called breeder told them. When it does not and then they shed real bad and are hyper as all get out people turn them into the shelter. But no one is going public with their stories saying what these breeders are doing so the cycle just turn again and again.

You want to stop it start by taking ads out in the classified telling the truth on these mixes. Something like Want a Doodle well here is what you really get..... That would get owners looking thinking. Might tick off those breeders but what can they do when you are not mentioning breeder names. It is time to hit them where it counts if they get stuck with puppies maybe they will stop breeding these mutts so much. The dog club should be doing a national info as campain against these breeders and there dogs.


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## Harley_chik

I know many breed clubs have statements, in bold print no less, about crossbreeds. You're right though, they need to put out newspaper ads and even tv spots. I wish AKC would do more to promote responsible breeding and health testing. (Unfortunately, they seem too interested in luring back the scummy breeders that went to CKC, APRI and the like.) 

Poodles are the most versatile breed there is, there is really no need to mix them w/ anything. They can be groomed to look like anything (seen the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle poodle?), so there goes the "I don't like the poodle look" argument. They are much smarter than retrievers, so there was never any reason to dilute them for sevice work. That's not JMO btw, they outscore retrievers on just about every list ranking dog intellegence and out perform them in the Obedience ring. The only other argument left is that people don't like the Poodle personality. The problem w/ that is most people have only met poorly breed poodles from unscrupulous breeders. (Often the same breeders that decided to start producing "doodles" and "poos.") 

It also needs to be mentioned that many of these "doodle" breeders are the ones who have exacerbated the health issues that purebred dogs face b/c they refuse to health test and breed on a large scale. Then they bash all purebred as being unhealthy!


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## Stacydub

I couldn't help but google the "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle" picture.... 

http://artflutter.com/teenage-mutant-ninja-poodle/

I think that a lot of the issues people have with "Just getting a poodle" is because...well...

there is a stigma that comes along with Poodles. People imagine them as the sissy looking little creature on their grandma's poodle skirts. It's not exactly a "big scary/tough/manly" dog. 

when I told my boyfriend I was getting a mini poodle....I thought he was going to DIE. He said that he wasn't going to be seen in public with a poodle...

Of course, once he met Helmet and got to see his personality and how smart he was, my boyfriend fell in love. I'm not sure how comon that story is....but it really does seem like most people are just staying clear of the stigma. They don't realize that you can have a poodle and NOT let it look like it came off a poodle skirt in from the 50's.

JMO


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## Harley_chik

That "turtle's" a trip, isn't she? Honestly though, how do "doodles" differ? They either look like swamp thing or a teddy bear. Neither is manly or macho. Check out Todd's dog Moose, I think he looks fairly "manly." His clip is definately low maintenence. A Poodle can be kept in the same clip most "doodles are supposed to kept in" if their owner is dedicated to brushing. As Cybercat said, Poodle coats are easier to maintain anyway. I don't have much respect for anyone who wants a dog b/c it's macho anyway. I guess being a responsible Rottweiler owner makes me more sensitive to those that get a dog b/c it looks tough. I guess Poodles do have a stigma, but I think putting your gf's happiness above your ego is very manly. Kudos to your bf!


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## Fluffyspoos

All doodles look the same, imo, they just come in different sizes.

Back in the day, they didn't call them designer breeds, they called them mutts and accidents x)


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## Emily-By

No dogs are safe Look at this add 




> Portugese waterdoodle born July 30
> Cookie had 5 females 1 male puppies on July 30
> These puppies will be non shedding with wavy coats,they are all mainly black w/white chest, chins and paws (some have more than other.
> They are very intelligent, energetic, active, family friendly dogs they will need an active family who likes the out doors(hiking swimming camping etc.)
> They need grooming 3 to 4 times per year...fenced yard... and lots of love and attention.
> Grand mom retriever Netty and grand dad Oats white standard poodle and mom Cookie goldendoodle live with us.... if interested email
> dew claws removed vet check and first shots.


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## Emily-By

Fluffyspoos said:


> All doodles look the same, imo, they just come in different sizes.
> 
> Back in the day, they didn't call them designer breeds, they called them mutts and accidents x)


Thats what I still see them as and people get offendede when they say, shih-pom-malti-chin-poo and I go OH a mutt...

I have a French bulldog without a pedigree she doesn't conform to the standard AT ALL (we think she's crossed with a boston), I tell people she's a mutt, and they go ya but what kind... Ugh... I dont know thats why I'm calling her a MUTT... *sigh*


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## Dogsinstyle

I still insist I have the best "doodles". They've even ended up in National Dog of Australia mag.
Carole


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## roxy25

Dogsinstyle said:


> I still insist I have the best "doodles". They've even ended up in National Dog of Australia mag.
> Carole


LMAO I saw those pictures on google that is so cute and cool


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## puppylove

Until 6 weeks ago I had only a little knowledge of the Doodle craze. Then I decided to try to adopt a rescue poodle and ended up with a foster doodle. So my internet search into this craze started and I am now an avowed anti-doodlist. See , the name is so cute it's even adorable when used derogatorily.

My biggest problem is the huge profits being made from mutts that will have little of the qualities claimed on their behalf. Then they end up another abandonded dog. Go on to the doodle sites. Most of the happy poodle mix owners claim theirs do not shed or do so very little. In fact, in F1s only about a third turn out to be nonshedders. What happens to the rest? Maybe they aren't well-loved enough to have enthusiastic blog writers. Maybe they end up with rescue organizations (the lucky ones) or just taken to the local municipal facility. 

My foster came to me with absolutely no social skills whatsoever. She had obviously never been loved by anyone. She was probably a very adorable puppy that grew up to be an awkard wild adolescent that was starting to shed, then abandoned to the streets of Phoenix to fend for herself in the middle of summer. I picked up a skinny, scared, stinky, tick-infested girl with blistered pads that peed whenever anyone got close to her and had to be carried out to the car because she was too frightened to get up out of her submissived rollover. 

Even the doodle rescue groups are so enamored of their "breed" they have a hard time presenting them objectively. I read over and over again about 8, 9, 10 month old puppies that don't shed. I've said it there and I will say it here. Puppies don't shed. My Australian Shepherd never shed as a puppy either. It wasn't until he was 18 months that I had to start coping with massive amounts of hair everywhere (and a huge investment in lint rollers!). 

The breeders/sellers lie about shedding, lie about their non-odor, lie about the supposed healthier stock, lie about the reasons they have to charge so much for a mutt. They often lie to obtain breeding stock. They lie when they say they are not doing it for the money. 

I am anti doodle because there is so much profit in selling these mutts that there will always be unscrupulous and just plain stupid people who will continue to fill our shelters with their castoffs. And as long as their proponents perpetuate the lies too many lives will be created that end up tragically.


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## aki

Dogsinstyle said:


> I still insist I have the best "doodles". They've even ended up in National Dog of Australia mag.
> Carole


Now THAT's a doodle I'd pay top dollar for :wink:

But puppylove has also made a fantastic point, and this is how most doodles will end up. Abandoned, scared, skinny, and lacking in social skills. It's a sad reality. I wish those celebrities like Eva Longoria and all those others who really set the "doodle" craze off understood the type of damage they are doing.


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## Purple Poodle

Not all "Doodles" look the same or have the same coat its a toss up to just what kind of coat you will get. 

I currently have two Cockapoos (Cocker/Poodle cross) in my frount yard. I got a call from a friend of mine who rescues with a local group and new that my own rescue takes in small dogs. I contacted the people who called her and they FOUND these two dogs 20 MILES north of my town (3500 people) in the middle of the woods.

They are so sweet but very malnurished, the little male has signs of PRA and vison loss and they both have skin issues. Attached are pictures of them from a few days ago after a bath.

These are the 5th and 6th poodle crosses to come into foster care in my town. 

So yeah I am NOT in favor of cross breeding.


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## sloane

well, i confess, i was joining the 'doodle' craze when we first started looking into dogs.

We thought they were so cute and my partner has severe allergies so we knew we needed a hypo-allergenic dog.

I even joined a doodle forum..

However, i was not kidding myself, I knew we were talking about a 'mixed breed', or in my day, a 'mutt'.

I could never get over the money it cost to buy a 'mutt'. I thought the whole thing was ridiculous, except that we really needed to go with the hyper-allergenic stuff.

The more research I found, the chances of actually getting a 'doodle' that is really hyper-allergenic, was actually small. The doodle people I talked to, stated that there dog shed. 

The reason we were going with the doodle, and not a poodle, is because in my life I never thought of owning a poodle. they seemed to be 'stuck up' dogs for 'stuck up' people. There was this whole stigma attached to a poodle. 

Mind you, i grew up with mutts and homeless dogs, and actually, i never even got the whole 'pure breed' thing either.

But i digress..

the more research I did, there was one thing in common with all these dogs. Allot of these dogs were being matted with 'poodles'. Poodles seemed to be the 'trait' that everyone wanted.

So the more research I did, i found out that everything that I wanted in a dog, was found in the poodle.

We all are so happy with Murphy.

Poodles are known for the second most smartest dogs. the retrievers are like 4th or 5th on the list.

When i told people what kind of puppy we were getting, they were like..'oh, I hate poodles"

then they meet Murphy and they cant get enough of him.

I have no idea why people have such a strong reaction to them, as I know I did. but again, I would bet that those people never owned a poodle.

I think people who are exposed more to poodles, will realize how wonderful they are.

but anyway, just wanted to add my 2 cents. Look at me who was totally uneducated and ignorant, and now I 'get it.'


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## Harley_chik

Sloane it's so nice to hear of someone who is willing to educate themselves! Kudos to you!

There are plenty of "doodles" in shelters across America. If someone wants one, but doesn't want to hand a ridiculous amount of money to an unethical breeder, they should adopt. I've been keeping my eye on Petfinder for a Spoo and there are always more "doodles" than purebred poodles. I don't have an issue with mixed breeds (I grew up w/ one too; he'll be 15 in November!), but most of these dogs are mixed with breeds that I wouldn't want to own (Lab, Airedale, etc).


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## Fluffyspoos

I think the only way you could get a non shedding doodle was if you mixed a poodle with an already non shedding dog, like a yorkie, lhaha, or shih tzu.


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## T o d d

Look at Rusty my brothers goldendoodle in the other dogs thread it doesn't shed. 

Golden Retriever Bread with Poodle
Then their off spring bread with a poodle.
And then you get his dog.

No shedding, and there's some technical name for them 2b mix or something... but he's a good dog, no shedding either.


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## Harley_chik

What about the other dogs in his litter? Were the previous generations sold as "non-shedding"?


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## Purple Poodle

T o d d said:


> Look at Rusty my brothers goldendoodle in the other dogs thread it doesn't shed.
> 
> Golden Retriever Bread with Poodle
> Then their off spring bread with a poodle.
> And then you get his dog.
> 
> No shedding, and there's some technical name for them 2b mix or something... but he's a good dog, no shedding either.



So your brothers dog is 75% Poodle and 25% Golden, whats the point? I don't see the attraction? I like mutts don;t get me wrong I ahve my very own Cocker Lab mix and love her to death but I guess I can't get pass the fact its a MUTT.


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## T o d d

Harley_chik said:


> What about the other dogs in his litter? Were the previous generations sold as "non-shedding"?


No, their breeder told them if they wanted one with 90% chance or greater of no shedding it had to be this generation.



Purple Poodle said:


> So your brothers dog is 75% Poodle and 25% Golden, whats the point? I don't see the attraction? I like mutts don;t get me wrong I ahve my very own Cocker Lab mix and love her to death but I guess I can't get pass the fact its a MUTT.


The point?
They liked it.
That's it.

_I'm not arguing_... but just like there are 500 million car types one for each person I think dogs are the same... pure bred, mutt, etc.. different stroke for different folks. As long as he's healthy and happy.. which so far seems fine. I also don't think he was over priced, for a mutt yeah for a doodle def. not. Supply and demand drives the price of the doodle it seems like other biz.


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## Harley_chik

But dog breeding shouldn't be a "business"!


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## Purple Poodle

T o d d said:


> No, their breeder told them if they wanted one with 90% chance or greater of no shedding it had to be this generation.
> 
> 
> 
> The point?
> They liked it.
> That's it.
> 
> _I'm not arguing_... but just like there are 500 million car types one for each person I think dogs are the same... pure bred, mutt, etc.. different stroke for different folks. As long as he's healthy and happy.. which so far seems fine. I also don't think he was over priced, for a mutt yeah for a doodle def. not. Supply and demand drives the price of the doodle it seems like other biz.


So why not get a 100% chance of non shedding and get a Poodle? or a Portie or a Curly or a Chessie or a Water Spaniel or a Wheaton or any of the other dogs who are also non shedding and hypoalergenic?

I don't get the car world either, why make a new one when there is already one that will do the job? Because you don't have a gymic to sell it and make a bigger profit? 

Notn trying to argue just trying to understand why someone will spend big bucks on a mixed breed dog when you can get the same if not better for less money and still have a happy healthy companion?


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## Aidan

The original reason for a lab or goldendoodle I thought was a pretty good idea. They had an idea about having a guide dog available for people with allergies and such that couldn't handle the high shedding of a lab or golden retriever. For that purpose I think a golden or labradoodle would suit perfectly!

However, the dogs would have to be not only health tested but also temperments. I'm sure there are several responsible and reputable designer dog breeders out there. If someone is doing the proper health testing and temperment testing on their dogs then by all means do what you gotta do! If someone is willing to pay their price tags for a mixed breed dog who am I to judge them?

My only concern is making sure health puppies are being bred and sold. Unfortunately you are going to have BYBs for ALL breeds not JUST the designer dogs!

I would gladly own a labradoodle or goldendoodle someday but not for an expensive price tag. You can actually find several in poodle rescues!

I do think the original idea was a solid plan and a great idea but as people have said it just got out of hand with puppy mills and BYBs.


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## Purple Poodle

How many handicaped people acctualy have dog allergies? If they can't sweep or mop can they brush? WHo grooms there non shedding dogs? I just don't get why they did not use the Poodle? They wanted the Lab or Golden personailty? There is a breed called the Curly Coated Retriever;

From the CCRCA,
"The 
Curly-Coated Retriever 
This smartly upstanding,
multi-purpose hunting retriever is recognized by most canine historians as one of the oldest of the retrieving breeds. The Curly is wickedly smart and highly trainable. This active, intelligent dog is a charming and gentle family companion and a determined, durable hunter."

From the AKC breed standard,
"An energetic and intelligent dog, the Curly-Coated Retriever is an excellent companion, but requires training and daily exercise or a job to keep him from becoming bored and destructive. One of the more independent retriever breeds, the Curly may appear somewhat aloof, but is always willing to please. Their coat is easy to care for, requiring only occasional bathing."

*shrug*


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## Harley_chik

Purple Poodle, I agree completely, why not just choose a low allergen breed. What you don't hear about the original "doodles" is that they, just like the "doodles" being sold by unscrupulous breeders, weren't low shedding! The whole "experiment" was scrapped. If "doodles" made good service dogs, you would see them all the time wouldn't you?


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## T o d d

Harley_chik said:


> But dog breeding shouldn't be a "business"!


Like it or not it is.

Nothing you or I can do about it.

Just like livestock, dog breeding (due to demand) is an ever growing business.


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## T o d d

Purple Poodle said:


> How many handicaped people acctualy have dog allergies? If they can't sweep or mop can they brush? WHo grooms there non shedding dogs? I just don't get why they did not use the Poodle? They wanted the Lab or Golden personailty? There is a breed called the Curly Coated Retriever;
> 
> From the CCRCA,
> "The
> Curly-Coated Retriever
> This smartly upstanding,
> multi-purpose hunting retriever is recognized by most canine historians as one of the oldest of the retrieving breeds. The Curly is wickedly smart and highly trainable. This active, intelligent dog is a charming and gentle family companion and a determined, durable hunter."
> 
> From the AKC breed standard,
> "An energetic and intelligent dog, the Curly-Coated Retriever is an excellent companion, but requires training and daily exercise or a job to keep him from becoming bored and destructive. One of the more independent retriever breeds, the Curly may appear somewhat aloof, but is always willing to please. Their coat is easy to care for, requiring only occasional bathing."
> 
> *shrug*


I have no clue why they did not just get a poodle.

Why do people pick cars I think are ugly? They like them and that's their choice.


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## Purple Poodle

T o d d said:


> I have no clue why they did not just get a poodle.
> 
> Why do people pick cars I think are ugly? They like them and that's their choice.


I don't care if they use the Poodle or not I just think is asinine to breed mutts when the only reason they could come up with for doing it was "low shed" and "hypoalergenic".

*shrug* Dogs are not cars.


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## Harley_chik

T o d d said:


> Like it or not it is.
> 
> Nothing you or I can do about it.
> 
> Just like livestock, dog breeding (due to demand) is an ever growing business.


Well, when I buy my next dog, I won't be supporting anyone who breeds for profit! I will also continue to denounce the BYBs and puppymillers who do and try hard to educate those willing to listen.


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## T o d d

Harley_chik said:


> Well, when I buy my next dog, I won't be supporting anyone who breeds for profit! I will also continue to denounce the BYBs and puppymillers who do and try hard to educate those willing to listen.


How do you propose to figure out if they are breeding for profit or not? If they make 1 cent on the sale of a puppy to you they are breeding for profit.

No BYB, no Puppy mill... are you going to adopt or buy from a breeder? ??


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## Dogsinstyle

If you do like I did my last litter and lose $6,000., you don't breed very often.
Carole


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## Cdnjennga

T o d d said:


> How do you propose to figure out if they are breeding for profit or not? If they make 1 cent on the sale of a puppy to you they are breeding for profit.
> 
> No BYB, no Puppy mill... are you going to adopt or buy from a breeder? ??


If you're not breeding FOR profit but do make a profit, then that's a happy accident.

Breeders who breed once or twice a year are lucky to even cover their costs, let alone make a profit. And you can bet even if they do make a profit on one litter they will make a loss on the next so it evens out.

The breeder I am speaking to is only having one litter this year (of mini poodles). She has already spent $2000, not including the stud fee. She doesn't even know if the bitch is pregnant yet! Unless she has a freakishly large litter, she will most likely make a loss. But as she looks at it as a hobby (albeit an expensive hobby) she's ok with that.


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## T o d d

Cdnjennga said:


> If you're not breeding FOR profit but do make a profit, then that's a happy accident.
> I`m sure there are lots of happy accidents then. Like you say some breeders want to better the breed and want to deliver a dog to people they know who want one, but I would be hesitant to say that *most* breeders are like this.
> 
> Breeders who breed once or twice a year are lucky to even cover their costs, let alone make a profit. And you can bet even if they do make a profit on one litter they will make a loss on the next so it evens out.
> 
> How do you figure if they breed twice a year or once a year they don't make a profit? If the breeder does all the shots/health care and grooming then they may have a health test or two... and you know (well I know after talking to my vet) that breeders get a great discount at vets they use over and over and suggest to their clients. Sure there is time, but if it's a hobby then are we counting time as money in that instance... if not then the _profit_ could be higher. I would say that 95% or more breeders would not do it if they were not making money... that may suck but it's true. BYB, Puppy mill or 'quality breeder' its true.
> 
> The breeder I am speaking to is only having one litter this year (of mini poodles). She has already spent $2000, not including the stud fee. She doesn't even know if the bitch is pregnant yet! Unless she has a freakishly large litter, she will most likely make a loss. But as she looks at it as a hobby (albeit an expensive hobby) she's ok with that.
> How much do Poodles cost there? Out here you can spend $1500 to $2000 for *ONE.*


See my responses in orange 
Sorry if it seems I'm picking on you I have genuine questions I`m curious as to the answers!

Thanks a bunch for educating me


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## Harley_chik

Cdnjenga, said it perfectly, there's a difference in breeder to make money and breeding to improve/maintain health, temperment and conformation and happening to profit on a litter. There's also a difference in what a breeder does with their profit. Do they use it on their dogs and breeding program (a handler, new grooming equipment, a new show dog from another kennel) or do they use it for themselves (an iPod, nicer car, designer handbag).

IMHO, if some one if breeding for profit, they are eventually going to start cutting corners. It will become too tempting to not do the proper health testing, not show as much (or prove their dogs in other ways), not get the best vet care, etc. Afterall the general public doesn't know what health testing is, so there is more money to be made by cutting corners.

I feel pretty torn about adopting vs buying. I support responsible breeders but there are so many homeless dog out there already. I also feel like there are fewer responsible breeders and they produce fewer litters than their counterparts. Case in point, I've found what appears to be a great breeder only 45 mins away from me, but they don't breed very often (they had one litter about a year ago and have a female just starting out in the showring that they "plan to breed sometime in the future). They are more concerned with showing and enjoying their dogs. This makes for a great breeder but a longer wait for a puppy. Long story short, I'm keeping an eye out for the right rescue, but if it doesn't come along, I will buy from a responsible breeder.


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## Cdnjennga

I don't feel picked on, I love a good debate! 



T o d d said:


> I`m sure there are lots of happy accidents then. Like you say some breeders want to better the breed and want to deliver a dog to people they know who want one, but I would be hesitant to say that most breeders are like this.
> 
> I agree with your last point - especially when it comes to poodles. That's why it takes so long to do your research and find those breeders who are breeding for love of the breed!
> 
> How do you figure if they breed twice a year or once a year they don't make a profit? If the breeder does all the shots/health care and grooming then they may have a health test or two... and you know (well I know after talking to my vet) that breeders get a great discount at vets they use over and over and suggest to their clients. Sure there is time, but if it's a hobby then are we counting time as money in that instance... if not then the profit could be higher. I would say that 95% or more breeders would not do it if they were not making money... that may suck but it's true. BYB, Puppy mill or 'quality breeder' its true.
> 
> Low volume breeders with only a couple of house dogs are most likely not getting any vet discounts. I would guess only those who have a large number of dogs and litters per year see any sort of cost saving.
> 
> Consider the costs that go into planning for and breeding a litter of quality:
> - Obtaining your breeding quality puppy
> - Obtaining a conformation title/ other performance titles
> - All health tests
> - Stud fee (usually the cost of one puppy)
> - Travel fees to get to the stud if it's at a distance or to fly the sperm to you - if using semen, the implantation cost of the vet
> - the costs associated with 8 weeks of care of the puppies - maybe taking time off work?
> - feeding costs for the bitch while she's nursing
> - vet costs for the puppies (health checks, vaccination etc)
> 
> That's all I can think of right now, but I'm sure there's other costs I've missed!
> 
> Now, many health tests only need to be done once in the dog's lifetime or once a year. So now you can see why it's so attractive to some people to do back to back breedings, as you will most likely profit on the second. This has been up for debate already, but we saw on another thread why this isn't always a good idea... If you don't do any back to back breedings, then your costs will be double for the two bitches. So profit is still only a maybe, not a given.
> 
> 
> How much do Poodles cost there? Out here you can spend $1500 to $2000 for ONE.
> 
> A mini poodle here is about 1200. So the money she will make on 2 pups is gone on her expenses so far. The money of one pup is gone on the stud fee. She's keeping one pup. So she would need to have a litter of at least 4 to even cover the costs she has already seen, before she's even had the litter of pups! The average mini poodle litter is 5.


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## Cdnjennga

Harley_chik said:


> I feel pretty torn about adopting vs buying. I support responsible breeders but there are so many homeless dog out there already. I also feel like there are fewer responsible breeders and they produce fewer litters than their counterparts. Case in point, I've found what appears to be a great breeder only 45 mins away from me, but they don't breed very often (they had one litter about a year ago and have a female just starting out in the showring that they "plan to breed sometime in the future). They are more concerned with showing and enjoying their dogs. This makes for a great breeder but a longer wait for a puppy. Long story short, I'm keeping an eye out for the right rescue, but if it doesn't come along, I will buy from a responsible breeder.


This sums up my feelings exactly! I have been looking for the right rescue for 6 months and only decided to look into breeders when it became obvious I might struggle to find a dog that perfectly fits my needs. So I'm on the waiting list with the breeder, but also applying for rescues. Whichever I make the commitment to first is the one I'm going with. 

Back on topic, I actually put an application in for a schnoodle (? schnauzer poodle cross) the other day. I would never get a DD from a breeder but would be quite happy rescuing the right little guy. Here he is: http://uglymutts.com/1818/george-schnoodle-schnauzerpoodle/#more-1818


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## cybercat

It is such a shame that so many people get these mixes and then they end up in the shelter. One reason why they get them is they do love poodles but will not pay the money for them or can not find a breeder or there is a very long list for the breeder. Ofcourse I do not think those are the once truley turning in pups to the shelter.

Now those that are buying on impluse or to be in vogue are the ones that will turn them in. Unfortunaly that is alot of people. The sad thing is about the image of poodle being foofoo dogs is that it is so wrong. These are the first water retievers. They out class labs in trials all the time. BTW I do not own a poodle never have but hope to soon. In the past Have lived with a golden and a lab and I owned and bred import German shepherds. I do know of many poodle owners that work their dogs in water reteriving trails here and else where.

Ok I am going off topic so will start another thread on where this is leading.. But I do think part of the problem is that poodle price are too high. Yes, I know what testing cost and raising a litter. Still if you put the range out of the common people abilty what can one expect but doodles. I do not like anymore than anyone else but this is partial the fault of the poodle club and high end breeders. Only the wealthy can afford a poodle for it is a high maintance dog. Unfortunatly doodles are even more so and they cost less than poodles most of the time. I have head of a few under $1000.00 poodle breeders but not many.


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## roxy25

cybercat said:


> It is such a shame that so many people get these mixes and then they end up in the shelter. One reason why they get them is they do love poodles but will not pay the money for them or can not find a breeder or there is a very long list for the breeder. Ofcourse I do not think those are the once truley turning in pups to the shelter.
> 
> Now those that are buying on impluse or to be in vogue are the ones that will turn them in. Unfortunaly that is alot of people. The sad thing is about the image of poodle being foofoo dogs is that it is so wrong. These are the first water retievers. They out class labs in trials all the time. BTW I do not own a poodle never have but hope to soon. In the past Have lived with a golden and a lab and I owned and bred import German shepherds. I do know of many poodle owners that work their dogs in water reteriving trails here and else where.
> 
> Ok I am going off topic so will start another thread on where this is leading.. But I do think part of the problem is that poodle price are too high. Yes, I know what testing cost and raising a litter. Still if you put the range out of the common people abilty what can one expect but doodles. I do not like anymore than anyone else but this is partial the fault of the poodle club and high end breeders. Only the wealthy can afford a poodle for it is a high maintance dog. Unfortunatly doodles are even more so and they cost less than poodles most of the time. I have head of a few under $1000.00 poodle breeders but not many.


I have to disagree with you on this. Doodles and all of these designer mutts cost just as much as a purebred. There are BYB that have poodles who are cheap also. So this is why I disagree. people just want something that is vogue like you stated. 

here are a few examples 

http://www.sutterbutteslabradoodles.com/prices.html

http://www.sierravistalabradoodles.com/adopting.htm

http://www.misbhavendoodles.com/ApplicationPage.html

If someone could afford those prices for a mutt I am pretty sure they can afford a purebred. People are just impatient and too lazy to actually research. They see a puppy and must have it asap and this is why so many dogs are in the shelters today.


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## Fluffyspoos

roxy25 said:


> I have to disagree with you on this. Doodles and all of these designer mutts cost just as much as a purebred. There are BYB that have poodles who are cheap also. So this is why I disagree. people just want something that is vogue like you stated.
> 
> here are a few examples
> 
> http://www.sutterbutteslabradoodles.com/prices.html
> 
> http://www.sierravistalabradoodles.com/adopting.htm
> 
> http://www.misbhavendoodles.com/ApplicationPage.html
> 
> If someone could afford those prices for a mutt I am pretty sure they can afford a purebred. People are just impatient and too lazy to actually research. They see a puppy and must have it asap and this is why so many dogs are in the shelters today.


I would NEVER pay that price for a mixed breed! That's ridiculous!

I've known people saying they wanted goldendoodles because they 'looked cute' but I've never agreed =/ you can never really know what the dogs will look like when they grow up.

I've seen goldendoodles in the salon with THICK hair that mats if it barely gets long, I've seen them with more golden like hair, but with a curly to it, and I've seen them with wirey hair where it grows only in some parts, but doesn't continue to grow after a certain point.


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## cybercat

Ok those prices are the very high end for those mutts. Heck even for many show dogs those are high. Most prices I have seen for these mutts is in MD and FL is $800.00 and down. I am sure CA is higher like it is in everything. Probably NY and some of Tx too.


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## Harley_chik

I have to agree w/ Roxy; I don't think DD prices are any different from purebred prices. Some even cost a lot more. There's a faction of "doodle" people that spend several thousands to have "Australian Doodles" imported. Just like purebred poodles, you can find they for a few hundred in the newspaper or several thousand elsewhere.


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## aki

cybercat said:


> Ok those prices are the very high end for those mutts. Heck even for many show dogs those are high. Most prices I have seen for these mutts is in MD and FL is $800.00 and down. I am sure CA is higher like it is in everything. Probably NY and some of Tx too.


No, those prices are pretty much the average right now across the U.S. I've checked a couple of Florida breeders and that's the going rate.

Now if you looked for a doodle in the newspaper or something you will probably find doodles for under $800 in FL, and more specifically Miami. I've seen all sorts of dogs, purebred and mixed, in the newspaper for under $200.


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## roxy25

Harley_chik said:


> I have to agree w/ Roxy; I don't think DD prices are any different from purebred prices. Some even cost a lot more. There's a faction of "doodle" people that spend several thousands to have "Australian Doodles" imported. Just like purebred poodles, you can find they for a few hundred in the newspaper or several thousand elsewhere.


Yes this is typical with any breed of dogs. Hell I have seen free mixed dogs on CL and in the paper lol. 

The big problem is these BYB and pet shop dogs are more accessible and easier to find than a reputable breeder. Some breed clubs don't have a breed referral list on their websites. You have to call or email someone! Yes it sounds easy but a lot of people are not bright or they are just lazy. They want instant gratification! They will pay anything for it. A reputable breeder will have waiting list a pet shop or byb wont. Another thing is a lot of reputable breeders do not have websites. 

I wish you guys could hear the comments my sister would get when she used to work at this pet shop as a groomer. People would come in and just want to buy a dog they could care less about health testing or price. The owner of the pet shop would get puppies from local “breeders” and sell them at higher prices since it was Hollywood. A lot of these puppies where not even purebred ….. He would tell these people they would stay small etc and that the dogs where purebred…. one guy bought a small Chihuahua mix and the owner of the pet shop told him it would stay under 5lbs. Well this man came back 6 months later with a puppy that was over 12lbs the guy came in mad saying he you better take this dog back or I will kill it !!!! I am telling you a lot of PEOPLE ARE CRAZY AND ARE IDIOTS. One time while I was there helping grooming some dogs. Some guy came in the pet shop with his daughter looking for a new replacement puppy… I asked him what happened to the last puppy and he said it got hit buy a car……. So I guess there new puppy would end up the same way. 

I would like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but after I heard all of these crazy stories from my sister and experiencing a lot of events myself. It’s like damn a lot of people should not even own dogs. Every since I moved to LA my eyes have been opened up on how careless and idiotic a lot of people are when it comes to dogs. It’s a sad reality and this is why we have so many animals in the shelters and because of byb’s puppymills etc….


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## wishpoo

Some people are sooo much misinformed that it is actually sad. Just recently I met a girl in the Mall holding very lethargic, tiny white dog on her shoulder (like a baby ) . It looked like some kind of Maltese / Shih Tzu mix. Since girl was very fancy dressed I could not resist but ask what kind of dog is that . She said it was a Toy Poodle :hypnotized: and I almost fainted lol ! Than I said :" Oh, I thought that poodles have curly hair" , trying to see if something will "ring the bell" in her head, but she said - : " Oh, she is too young to be curly" ! "Where did you get her and how old is the puppy?" , I asked. "My boyfriend got it for me, it is like...ammmm...3-4 mons...I think..." In my opinion, puppy was barely 5- 6 weeks MAX old. It was obviously malnourished, dossing off on her shoulder... I was just flabbergasted with the whole situation - there was a person who had a puppy without any knowledge of the origin of the dog, breed or age, or even took time to take pup to the vet (otherwise she would be told by a vet the breed issue and how old it was) !!!!!! At that point my hubby pulled me by a hand to move away since he saw frustration in my eyes - I just could see where it all was going to end and I could do nothing about it : ((((


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## aki

Those are some horrible stories!

It's sad that most people buy dogs these days as accessories, not pets.


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## cybercat

And people like that wonder why their new puppy dies. I hear way to many times, Shots oh the breeder gave them I do not need too, and then it comes down with parvo. Hopefully these people do not buy a dog again.


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## Fluffyspoos

cybercat said:


> And people like that wonder why their new puppy dies. I hear way to many times, Shots oh the breeder gave them I do not need too, and then it comes down with parvo. Hopefully these people do not buy a dog again.


Perhaps they should stick with hampsters...


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## *heather*

http://www.dogsincanada.com/oodles-of-doodles

great article on the subject


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## Harley_chik

That was a good article! I met a dachshund/poodle mix puppy, yesterday. He didn't have a single poodle quality about him, excepty maybe color. He looked like a tiny, light yellow, Labrador Retriever. There is no way he will be low shedding or hypoallergenic. He was very cute (right now) and had a great personality. I didn't ask where he came from, but I can't imagine his owner spent that much. I was happy to hear her call him a mix and not "dachsipoo" or some other dumb name. I just hope she doesn't have allergie or anything.


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## Cdnjennga

Harley_chik said:


> He didn't have a single poodle quality about him, excepty maybe color.


I have noticed that about poo crossbreeds. They almost always look like the other breed they have been crossed with, with a "somewhat" poodle like coat. That makes it even more confusing to me as to why people would want them.

The schnauzer poodle cross I applied for (and who went to someone else ) looked almost exactly like a schnauzer. And every dachshund poodle I have seen looks like a dachshund with a weird coat. So why bother creating these mixes that looks so much like one of the breeds it comes from?


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## wishpoo

I saw boxer/poodle that was very handsome lol - looked more like a Portuguese W D. Also I saw very cute golden-doodle , had very long and curly hair. Just the other day saw black labra-doodle - he also looked like Portuguese WD.. And many times cocka-poos can be very pretty. It is not that those mixes are not attractive or do not look like something new - it is just the fact that they are bred for one purpose only - TO MAKE MONEY without any regard to puppy's health or the future. Pups are produced an mass and shipped like toys all over the USA for 1,800 US$ to 2,500 US$ !!!! 

People are "sold" on the idea to have a dog that is NOT a poodle but has poodle qualities and they end up with a dog that somewhat resembles poodle but in temperament, non shading , non smelling and personality can not come even close. 

Ignorance is "$$$ bliss" for a backyard breeder ...


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## jak

*heather* said:


> http://www.dogsincanada.com/oodles-of-doodles
> 
> great article on the subject


That is a truly great article.

Generally speaking, the general public do not deserve to own a dog,
as the general public are complete and utter idiots!
So when the general public wants a dog, they go to the local pet shop and buy whatever cute furry thing that is there, as it is hard to find a responsible breeder (as the article says, they play their breed down) that will actually sell them a puppy.
Most people when they get a dog, do not know where to find a breeder, unless they are educated or have been referred to someone, so they go to the local petshop etc. or in our country a wonderful place called trademe (new zealand's ebay) where you can sell anything from your house to your puppies. People just market these puppies for outrageous prices going on about hybrid vigour, there parents appear healthy etc.
Take a look at this ad
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Pets-animals/Dogs/Dogs/auction-244799386.htm
"The gene pool of this 1st generation x is strong, and the babies from it should be free of the adult problems the purebred parents can be prone to. 
So hopfully from this designer x a lot less Vet Bills. "
people believe this!
Hopfully, what a great guarentee!
This website provides our whole country with poorly health tested cross puppies, that can be shipped anywhere (as our country is very small), and the new owners are told that these puppies will be non shedding, low allergenic, calm and affectionate, GUARENTEED!

Now, many responsible breeders, when they have a litter, if they end up with a few puppies not gone to a good home, they have to sell them cheaply, due to the high priced mutts, or they have to keep them, making it hard to continue your lines, as you can't sell your pups for enough to cover costs etcera due to the 'stigma' of purebred dogs (purebred dogs exposed aired here not to long ago) and all the idiots spreading hybrid vigour around.

Someone we know, brought a really expensive Labradoodle pup a while ago, when it was 4 months old it broke it's leg when the owner gently pushed it off her leg, the puppy had really poor bone structure etc.

People don't hear this sort of stuff so they think designer x s are so healthy, this just really pisses me off lol

Luckily in our area, there aren't very many doodles ending up in the pound, just your typical amount of rescued dogs from bad homes etc.

I hoped this post isn't really confusing, as I am confused writing it lol
I just wrote everything on my mind after reading this thread, as this topic is really confusing lol

If you take a look around trademe's dog section you will see the vast majority of BYB we have compared to purebred dog's for sale by reputable breeders
At the moment there are a total of 908 listings of dogs for sale
On average, 131 of them are purebred NZKC breeders, not necessarily reputable
And on average the other 777, are BYB, purely for quick and easy $$$
And there is nothing we can do about it


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## plumcrazy

Cdnjennga said:


> ...And every dachshund poodle I have seen looks like a dachshund with a weird coat. So why bother creating these mixes that looks so much like one of the breeds it comes from?


I just found this ad on our local online classifieds... This looks like a shepherd with a "weird coat"...

http://www.bismanonline.com/getListing.php?tcat=8&cat=64&p=1&a=471198

I've also seen some adorable "doodle" mixes, but I wouldn't specifically search for one to add to my pack... I've had mixed breeds who are FABULOUS dogs, but they were just that... mixed breed dogs not trying to "be" something specific... The current mixed love of my life is Hannah Banana who is Boxer, Cocker Spaniel, Great Pyrenees, Labrador, Miniature Poodle and Viszla - try turning THAT into a "cute" breed name!!


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## WonderPup

Dogsinstyle said:


> I still insist I have the best "doodles". They've even ended up in National Dog of Australia mag.
> Carole


Hehehe, we'll we obviously know that I like pony doodles even though mine isn't nearly as nice as the fine examples posted up above, being my first attempt and all lol. She's not a show or breeding quality pony doodle of course, she's a my little pony cross similar to the pink one only she got the full body color. One day though I too will have pastures full of quailty pony doodles LoL.


It is sad about the isinformation floating around out there. What gets me about the doodles is that almost all of the ones I've met had come with owners who swear they don't need monthly grooming like a poodle would. Like the add posted about the dogs only needing grooming 3-4 times a year. Ugh, if it gets a very long or thick coat at all you're sure to have a matted mess. 

Anyone heard of this one http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/doodlemanpinscher.htm
I know a lot of people here have Dobe's so of course it caught my attention.


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## PonkiPoodles

WonderPup said:


> Anyone heard of this one http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/doodlemanpinscher.htm
> I know a lot of people here have Dobe's so of course it caught my attention.


NOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo! WHY???? :yell: :mffad: :bawling:
This is sad... very very sad....
I mean look at those adult dogs... they are @%^$!^ ugly! And it honestly looks like there is something seriously wrong with the one that kinda resembles a spoo :bawling:


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## Flake

For the most part I agree with you all, but to play the devils advocate a wee bit:

Alot of people who do their research, but haven't had opportunities to spend time with dogs of the breed of choice, only get very generalised veiws. Some would call a poodle 'highly strung', I know mine certainly needs alot of activity and exercise!! The reality is, dogs are great family pets, but there is enough information to advise against poodles out there. Everyone knows how wonderful they are in every other aspect, so some will head out and look for a labradoodle, in the hopes of a quieter poodle pretty much. 

The other thing I want to mention is that it was decided by the powers that be that a poodle X lab produced a 'better' guidedog, in that they were a little more settled, required a little less exercise, and didn't shed, along with the obvious brains. This made the labradoodle breed incredibly popular. As previously mentioned, the guys in Aussie have really gone about it properly, and the registered accredited breeders are doing a fantastic job ~ these dogs bring alot to the service animal industry over here. I understand that there are curly coated retrivers / PWD's etc that may have great temprement, but the reality is that down below on our side of the world, getting one with decent bloodlines and temprement is incredibly rare and quiet simply unaffordable. I paid $500 for my poodle, these other purbreeds can be $2000+. I maintain I can afford to have a dog...he is insured!! Initial outlay is a big deal. 

That said, I think any other oodle X is not so great, and wouldn't go there myself. I think the poodle has been exploited, and people are out there to make money. But I think that genuine labradoodle breeders are doing a good thing.

Just my two cents, sorry for the novel!


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## WonderPup

Didn't I read somewhere that the a great many of the powers that be who decided the pooXlab made better service dogs no longer use them because of how unstable the breeding can be? Obviously they still use them where you are, but I've never met one here in the states. As I understand it the service doodles were also not just poodle and lab mixes, they mixed a couple of other breeds in there too, The curly comes to mind, I know read that in a book they sell here about labradoodles. 

I don't agree that they needed to cross poodles and labs to make better service dogs, a poodle alone would have done the job just fine. I can understand the desire for less hair and thus the movement away from labs and goldens. 

I know CCI is using lab golden crosses for reasons that don't make sense to me but who am I to argue? Other than a couple of the CCI dogs I've had in training classes none of the service dogs I've met have been poodle crosses. I do know of ONE standard poodle who was a service dog, he was purbred though not a cross. He's since passed but the lady who owned him is getting another since the lab she has now just isn't working out for her and she feels that the poodle as a breed just makes a better dog for what she needs.


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## WonderPup

PonkiPoodles said:


> NOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo! WHY???? :yell: :mffad: :bawling:
> This is sad... very very sad....
> I mean look at those adult dogs... they are @%^$!^ ugly! And it honestly looks like there is something seriously wrong with the one that kinda resembles a spoo :bawling:


Hehe funny story I found those by accident shortly after we got Jazz last year. We went to walmart and there was a guy in the parking lot selling dobie pups and I laughed and begged my hubby for one. Said something along the lines of OMG honey thats the next big designer breed Dober-Doodles!! We can have little puppies how fun. Of course I was KIDDING and of course hubby wouldn't go near dobie if his life was at stake (afraid of them). He went home and did a google search though and what do you know they already existed. LoL. 

We also found the "Whoodle" which is a soft coated wheaten and poodle. Now THAT's a mix I cannot understand, ummm yay you take a dog that mats and cross it to another dog that matts and whooo good for you.. ???


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## cbrand

Flake said:


> The other thing I want to mention is that it was decided by the powers that be that a poodle X lab produced a 'better' guidedog, in that they were a little more settled, required a little less exercise, and didn't shed, along with the obvious brains. This made the labradoodle breed incredibly popular. As previously mentioned, the guys in Aussie have really gone about it properly, and the registered accredited breeders are doing a fantastic job ~ these dogs bring alot to the service animal industry over here.


This is a myth. The experiment with using the Doodle as a guide dog for the blind was ended very early because the majority of the dogs did NOT work out. Even today, there are only a handful of working Doodle seeing eye dogs. I think there may well be just as many purebred Poodles working as guide dogs.

As far as service dogs, Rutland Manor in Australia is considered to be the founder of the breed. They have produced thousands of dogs in the last 10 years yet they have only produced a small number of actual service dogs. If that was my breeding program, I'd call that a failure. 

If you have not seen this web site, you have to:
http://stoprutlandmanor.wordpress.com/

Read all the recent posts, but make sure you read the one about Ellie. Clearly this is not a breeder who is "doing it right". It amazes me that people in the US still brag about how they spent over $3000 to get one of these fabulous Australian Labradoodles.


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## Flake

I was under the impression labs were a lot more docile, not so energetic if they didn't get out and about as much? Maybe more suited to nondoggy people who need a dog, pretty much. I don't really know what I'm on about, I just read an article once that made sense to me, but thought the copycat designer breeds were a bit OTT.

Mums dog, a chipilata: (Chi X Sausage dog). Another weird cross, but suits her to a t lol.


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## Flake

Wow cbrand, that's crazy! I'll keep reading, and send the link to my SIL, who is refusing a poodle but wants an oodle.


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## Raiko

Idk if its true or not, but I was watching Dogs101.
They were talking about Labradoodles and said that labradoodles were being considered to be recognised as their own breed. They said that two labradoodles bred together will spawn more labradoodles similar to their own parents. Most designer breeds you dont know what you will come out with.

http://animal.discovery.com/videos/dogs-101-labradoodle.html


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## PonkiPoodles

Raiko said:


> They said that two labradoodles bred together will spawn more labradoodles similar to their own parents. Most designer breeds you dont know what you will come out with.


That's just great!:doh: 
Has anyone noticed when you go onto petfinder.com... there are no miniature poodles for adoption... and when you search under poodles or toy poodles you get a 1000 mixes. There are very few to none purebred poodle up for adoption in our area.

And I can't think on one good reason to cross a doberman with a poodle. Dobermans don't shed that much... so that excuse doesn't fly in my books!


----------



## Raiko

I was looking at poodles on petfinder today, I was thinking of adopting one from petfinder. Type in area code 60134... I am no expert on poodles, actually I am very far from that, but They look... odd.. alot are mixes, but still some of the pure breds look kinda awquard.


----------



## PonkiPoodles

Raiko said:


> I was looking at poodles on petfinder today, I was thinking of adopting one from petfinder. Type in area code 60134... I am no expert on poodles, actually I am very far from that, but They look... odd.. alot are mixes, but still some of the pure breds look kinda awquard.


I agree... most of them look awkward! And that's probably due to the fact that some shelters have no clue what a purebred poodle looks like. I've seen many people post dogs on petfinder that made me go... "that's definitely not a....."


----------



## Raiko

Those are the kind of things that make me scared to adopt from shelters, but I guess I can always go to the shelter and take a look at the dogs myself. I really think they need a better quality camera too, alot of their pics have blue glares in the eyes which makes me worried there might be eye probs, and you cant really see much definition in the coat, and some of them are just... like cell phone quality pics...


----------



## WonderPup

When you cross two breeds and then breed the offspring of those crosses wont breed true. Just looking at lab and golden - doodle breeder websites that give info on the "breed" is enough to tell you the dogs don't breed true. Supposedly there are four possible coats you can end up with and yay since poodles go through a coat change so do alot of doodle and you are likely to not know what kind of coat type you have until after said change. 

Thats kind of sad in a way that a TV show is going on about these mixes. Nothing wrong with owning a mix breed but lets keep it real, on what is and is not a true breed. LOL, We have a client who has a cavalier cocker mix, a cock-a-lier he calls it. My pricing is by breed and cockaliers aren't a breed so I put her in as a cavalier mix. He had freaking fit, "SHE'S NOT A MIX!!! SEEEEEEEE, here are her papers from petland". There is no explaining to him that she is a a designer breed is a mix. So I decided to take my Cocker spaniel price, which is higher than a cavalier price and bumped it up 15 bucks. "But Sir, this is the designer breed price... " Haha desiger dog, designer price if you're going to be a jerk about it.


----------



## PonkiPoodles

WonderPup said:


> Thats kind of sad in a way that a TV show is going on about these mixes. Nothing wrong with owning a mix breed but lets keep it real, on what is and is not a true breed. LOL, We have a client who has a cavalier cocker mix, a cock-a-lier he calls it. My pricing is by breed and cockaliers aren't a breed so I put her in as a cavalier mix. He had freaking fit, "SHE'S NOT A MIX!!! SEEEEEEEE, here are her papers from petland". There is no explaining to him that she is a a designer breed is a mix. So I decided to take my Cocker spaniel price, which is higher than a cavalier price and bumped it up 15 bucks. "But Sir, this is the designer breed price... " Haha desiger dog, designer price if you're going to be a jerk about it.


LOL... I feel just like you wonderpup. The funniest thing to me is those who get offended when you call their dog a mutt (which it IS) ROFL! 
Just like the dumb woman that tried to convince me her dog is better, cause the breeder "bred the poodle personality out of her labradoodle" :doh: 
All idiots IMO! I honestly can't believe that some people in today's society buys all the [email protected] these breeders tell them!


----------



## Harley_chik

PonkiPoodles said:


> That's just great!:doh:
> Has anyone noticed when you go onto petfinder.com... there are no miniature poodles for adoption... and when you search under poodles or toy poodles you get a 1000 mixes. There are very few to none purebred poodle up for adoption in our area.
> 
> And I can't think on one good reason to cross a doberman with a poodle. Dobermans don't shed that much... so that excuse doesn't fly in my books!


I noticed that too. There are like 3 "doodles" for every Standard Poodle, in my area. The purebred Poodles were usually much farther away too.

That Dogs 101 show is pretty much BS. I watch it for the cute dogs and I like to correct their "facts." The Chihuahua segment was a total joke, "According to the AKC, real Chihuahuas weigh less that 6lbs and can either have an apple shaped head or a deerhead." I don't know where they got that info but according to the standard, which is written by the breed club not AKC, under six pounds and an round head are within standard. Just b/c a dog is out of standard doesn't mean it's not purebred and I get so sick of people talking about their deerhead Chihuahuas from "reputable breeders." Reputable breeders don't breed for that look and they certainly wouldn't call an out of standard puppy a "deer headed" Chihuahua. They would call it pet quality.


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## Raiko

well thanks for telling me Harley.


----------



## jak

WonderPup said:


> Anyone heard of this one http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/doodlemanpinscher.htm
> I know a lot of people here have Dobe's so of course it caught my attention.


All I can say is, Why?


----------



## *heather*

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-pets-dogs-puppies-for-sale-Home-for-Nemo-W0QQAdIdZ150022365

this one kinda makes me laugh... proves my point that you never know what you're gonna get with a doodle!! wonder why they're trying to get rid of it??:doh:


----------



## cbrand

Raiko said:


> Idk if its true or not, but I was watching Dogs101.
> They were talking about Labradoodles and said that labradoodles were being considered to be recognised as their own breed. They said that two labradoodles bred together will spawn more labradoodles similar to their own parents. Most designer breeds you dont know what you will come out with.
> 
> http://animal.discovery.com/videos/dogs-101-labradoodle.html


Labradoodles are very, very far away from evr being an AKC recognized breed. 

AKC will NOT allow a new breed that is simply the combination of two existing AKC breeds. There are also very strict rules about forming a parent club and running specialty shows and events. 

Most Doodle breeders in the United States have not and will not move past breeding F1Bs. This is a mix created by breeding a Poodle/Lab (F1) back to a Poodle. This mix gives breeders the best chances of getting those cute, fluffy and minimally shedding puppies. Ironically, this mix is 75% poodle. :wacko: Trying to breed F1 to F1 or F1B to F1B gives too many flat coated puppies who don't sell. Breeding Doodles is about generating revenue NOT about breed development.

People often point to the founder of the breed, Beverly Manor of Rutland Manor, and say that her dogs are a specific mix of a number of breeds and that they breed "true" after a number of generations. It has long been the word on the street (and recent more research seems to substantiate this) that Beverly falsified her pedigrees to make her dogs look like multi-generational labradoodles when many of them were in fact purebred poodle or cockapoo. Critical analysis of Rutland Manor pedigrees shows that many purebred Australian Labradoodles are in reality as much as 86% poodle!

http://stoprutlandmanor.wordpress.com/2009/09/01/is-there-any-labra-in-your-asd-labradoodle/

(click on the pedigree to enlarge it)

Organizing nationally.... There are a couple of groups that have set up breed clubs. They have written standards (exceptionally loose) and set up a "registry". However, they have never in my knowledge held any sort of breed evaluation shows or breed specific performance events. Frankly, they are just too darn busy churning out puppies to really do anything with their dogs.


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## PonkiPoodles

> Breeding Doodles is about generating revenue NOT about breed development.


I agree 100%... why don’t people realize this? Or are they just that arrogant?


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## roxy25

PonkiPoodles said:


> I agree 100%... why don’t people realize this? Or are they just that arrogant?


People just do not care and this is why there are designer breeds, BYB, and pet shops still. 

all they care about is a cute puppy hwell:


----------



## Marian

Personally, I don't get why anyone would want to take a perfectly perfect dog like the poodle and mix something else with it. Labradors, bless 'em, are great family pets, but they aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer. And the terriers...why on earth would you take a quiet little poodle and add yippy Yorkie to the mix?? Why would you do that?

My friends call me an Aryan poodle owner. haha But seriously! I understand wanting to improve another dog, but why don't you just get a poodle??


----------



## Harley_chik

*heather* said:


> http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-pets-dogs-puppies-for-sale-Home-for-Nemo-W0QQAdIdZ150022365
> 
> this one kinda makes me laugh... proves my point that you never know what you're gonna get with a doodle!! wonder why they're trying to get rid of it??:doh:


I don't see a bit of Poodle in that dog. It just looks like a poorly bred Golden to me.


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## taxtell

Funny story, regarding doodles:

I was working and a lady came in with what she called a goldendoodle, but it looked more like a poorly bred golden as well. She was so proud of her puppy and told me she paid $2500 dollars for him (yikes!). I am 99.9% sure he is going to shed. She was going on and on about him while he was freaking out all over, pulling, yipping, etc. Meanwhile Flip was laying at my feet under the desk, she didn't see him.

So the doctor heard her speaking to me about the puppy, and he came up to see it. He asked her what the benefits of a doodle were. She was explaining the benefits of a doodle vs. a golden or a poodle. She said poodles were high strung, high maintenance and smelled bad, and the only bad thing she could say about goldens was the shedding issue. Doc kinda laughed and picked Flip up like a baby from the floor and said "Look at you, you stinky, hyper high maintenance dog!" While Flip was licking his face.
Then he put her in her place and told her that poodles were fantastic dogs, and he thought doodles were just a silly trend.

She was a little put off, but she had the good grace to apologize to me.

Flip was also about 7,000 times more calm and well behaved than her doodle.

Except now Doc calls Flip Mr. H. Maintenance or StinkyHyperBoy.  Which is usually met with Flip rolling over for tummy rubs.

Sorry for the ramble, in between patients, but I thought you all might find it somewhat amusing.


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## Raiko

Lol. What is up with people always trying to say "My dog is better?" you see it everywhere, at parks, in the vet office, even some breeders do it. ( I saw a breeder who kept comparing poodles to akitas. And not in a good way)

You shouldn't get a dog so you can say "Mines better." you should get a breed b/c it fits what you want/ need in a dog. 

Though I gotta say, When I walked Halo around town I did have alot of this.

Person A: Oh wow shes a pretty dog. 
Me: Yeah, shes pretty.. uhh.. pretty
Person: Yeah what breed of dog is she?
Me: The best kind, thats what.


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## taxtell

Good answer!
You should get her this bowl:
http://www.dogsupplies.com/products/Studio-Awesome-Blue-Dog-Bowl-Dish.html


----------



## Harley_chik

Excellent post Raiko. I get so annoyed w/ the greeder ads saying "perfect family pet." There's no such thing as a perfect family, so how can their be a perfect family pet? People are all different and we have different needs/wants in a dog. I love my Maltese and my Rottweiler, but I discourage more people from getting one than I recommend them. People don't understand the work that goes into keeping a Maltese well groomed or raising an intellegent, dominant dog like a Rottweiler. For some they are perfect, for others it would be a nightmare.


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## WonderPup

Dont you love the people who tell you that because their dog is a mix of two breeds they are going to be healthier. The pet store here that sells puppies, about half of which are designer breeds, uses this statement to push their mixed breed dogs over the purebred ones since they fetch the designer price. Then the people buying this dogs go out and repeat wha the 'expert" at the petstore told them about how their dog would be healthier and was far superior to any purebred dog. *Sigh* Sorry to break the news but thats a myth. Dogs with genetic issues pass them on reguardless of what they are bred to. If you breed two small breeds and both have petella issues then guess what... DUH! Reccently I was in said petstore and noticed two dogs up for adoption. They had both been purchased the year before from the store and the family was moving and couldn't take them with them. One was a yorkie looking thing... I guess thats what he was supposed to be at any rate he was one of their purebreds. The other was a cavalier mix (which is really popular here) Guess which dog had the joint problems?? Yup the Mix breed. There was a whole little story typed up and taped to the window about them and it detailed that the dog had slipping knee and a hip problem caps that had been caused because the previous owner let him get overweight. Uhhh nooooooo, they were caused by poor breeding, getting a little chubby made them worse.  Leaving I heard one of their "puppy experts" telling a family all about the problem and how the poor little cavalier was bound to be the better dog once his weight was done and he had several thousand dollars worth of surgery. It was the same employee I interrupted the next month after overhearing her tell a gentleman that of course all their puppy's were show quality. I just couldn't let that one pass, hope she doesn't work on commision b/c she definitly lost the sale on that one. I was ready, card in hand wit my info so that we could get in touch about a nice(and healthy) IG puppy.

I had a client who owns a chow mix she adopted from the shelter (good for her) she is pretty much nuts but she means well. Poor dog has to wear clothes and shoes ALL the time and rides around in a human sized baby stroller AND has a baby sitter for when the lady and her husband go to work. She even fired one baby sitter b/c she found out that the sitter wasn't giving the dog his mid day, after lunch snack time and wasn't making him wear his outdoor shoes when she walked him. *eye roll* Anyway she was in the shop to drop the poor dog off for his yearly shave down and she went on and on and on about how there were to many purebred dogs int he world and she would never ever own one. I'm thinking ok fine, you'll adopt all your future pets from shelters and not care what they are good for you. Then she went on to say that shelters should only adopt out mix breed dogs and put all the ones that were purebred or appeared to down. Uhhhhh?? Are you seriously telling me that a nice dog doesn't deserve a chance at getting adopted simply b/c of parentage? I couldn't help myself... sometimes my mouth just opens right up and words come out before I can stop them. I mentioned that I knew of a lot of people who shared her opinion, only they thought all mix breed dogs comming into shelters shouldn't be offer for adoption. I don't subscribe to either school of thought personaly, when we went to fish Jazz out of the shelter after her little adoption adventure she should never have taken it was kind of a schocking experience. I cried for days after having visited. Anyway, she switched gears when she spotted Jazz and Saleen in kennels and went crazy over how they shouldn't even exist and whoever had them had to be an awful person. Not only were they purebred but they were POODLES what a needless breed they should be put down right now!! Ummmmm about as useful as a chow and who knows what cross??? Seriously. I didn't tell her they were mine until she picked up her dog, she didn't even apologize, she just Hmmmphed and walked out telling her husband that no purebred should be allowed to reproduce. I groomed her dog that day, obviously, but after having to listen to her nonsense when she dropped off and again when she picked up (she is planning to breed her dog to another mix breed dog b/c they are so much better) I made sure to not have an appt. available for her next time she called.


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## WonderPup

*heather* said:


> http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-pets-dogs-puppies-for-sale-Home-for-Nemo-W0QQAdIdZ150022365
> 
> this one kinda makes me laugh... proves my point that you never know what you're gonna get with a doodle!! wonder why they're trying to get rid of it??:doh:


That looks like a golden who's face tried to morph into a poodle but didn't quite make it. Poor Nemo, hope he gets a good home that will love him.


----------



## Marian

taxtell said:


> Except now Doc calls Flip Mr. H. Maintenance or StinkyHyperBoy.  Which is usually met with Flip rolling over for tummy rubs.


That's hilarious. Where on earth did she get the idea that poodles smell bad? The Number One reason I love poodles is because they rarely have that doggy smell, even after running around outside. 

My Teddy is also very mellow and well behaved (other people comment on this, so it's not just me saying it), especially considering he's only five months old.


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## taxtell

Wonderpup: I know THAT kind of crazy client all too well. Sympathies. 

Marian: I have no idea! She clearly didn't know what she was talking about in general. $2500 bucks for a mixed breed! :facepalm:


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## Raiko

taxtell said:


> Good answer!
> You should get her this bowl:
> http://www.dogsupplies.com/products/Studio-Awesome-Blue-Dog-Bowl-Dish.html


YES! lol


----------



## jak

WonderPup said:


> That looks like a golden who's face tried to morph into a poodle but didn't quite make it. Poor Nemo, hope he gets a good home that will love him.


You're right lol, it is a golden with a poodle head?!?!

Not pretty lol

I hope Nemo gets a nice home too lol


----------



## PonkiPoodles

jak said:


> You're right lol, it is a golden with a poodle head?!?!
> 
> Not pretty lol
> 
> I hope Nemo gets a nice home too lol



I don't see any poodle in that dog... not even in it's head. Too me it looks like a very malnourished light golden.... or badly bred golden.


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## jak

PonkiPoodles said:


> I don't see any poodle in that dog... not even in it's head. Too me it looks like a very malnourished light golden.... or badly bred golden.


I mean more of its skull shape and muzzle.
Not anything about its hair etc
But its shape of its skull looks poodley to me lol


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## spoospirit

_I was really shocked when, at least twice now, I was asked if my beautiful poodles were doodles!!? Now what do you say to that._


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## Flake

I've had that! 'He's so cute, is he a something ooldle?' 
Yeah. A poodle. 

In their defence though, he generally looks like my avatar, and rarely like a properly clipped poodle. 

But still. A poodle! The real damn thing!:thefinger:


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## cbrand

spoospirit said:


> _I was really shocked when, at least twice now, I was asked if my beautiful poodles were doodles!!? Now what do you say to that._



I say, "Nope. This is the real thing!"


----------



## WonderPup

Have any of you with spoo's gotten the "No, it can't be a purebred poodle, it's WAY to big!"  That always amuses me becase the person in question is almost always convinced I have a doodle and they are an expert because their great grandmother had a poodle or they grew up down the street from a family that had a little one. 
Yup, ya caught me, I'm trying to pass off my immitation poodle who's way to big as "the real thing" as Cbrand put it.


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## taxtell

Oh sweet irony, I went to the dog park today and it was a 'doodle meet up'.

Good lord there were a TON of them. And of course they were all different.


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## jak

A friend of ours has a black standard, and she go so sick of people asking if she was a Labradoodle, she decided to give her bracelets lol


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## Harley_chik

That would be the thing that would keep from doing a teddy bear face on a Standard. Unless it's just been fluffed, it will look like a doodle. I think I would be insulted if someone thought my dog was doodle, after all I've done to research the breed and find a breeder. (On the other hand, I had no problem clipping my Maltese like a Schnauzer.)

I actually had a girl at the drive thru at Wendy's ask what kind of dog Harley was. This was right after she told me she wants to be a vet. She'd been fussing over him and telling him how pretty he was. He was eating it up and trying to figure out what those great smells were. When I said Rottweiler, she said, "Oh those are mean right?" :doh: She was the first person I've ever met that couldn't recognize a Rottie and she wants to be a vet? Plus she can't think for herself. (If I'd said he was a rare black and tan Lab, she'd have gone on gushing.) Of course I told her how they are raised plays a big role and Harley is a sweetheart. I'm interested to see the public reaction when I get my pup. I've only seen two Standards in this town and I believe they've passed. (I haven't seen them in years and the owner used to walk them several times a week.) I know one other person who owned two several years ago, but the grooming bills were too much for her, so she downsized to a toy.


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## Raiko

Cassy gets called a labradoodle alot ._. My response is always

"Yeah this mutts got papers." and then they are always like "Huh..?"
"Exactly"
"I don't get it."
"Shes a pure bred not a mutt.."
"A poodle...?"
"Yeah"
"Shes huge"
"yeah well.. you know... roid rage"
"Wtf.... sersiously?"
"You dont know much bout poodles do you? Thats a perfectly normal size for a standard."
"Oh."


----------



## roxy25

I was looking through black standard poodle breeders websites and came across this I sure hope this was an accident :wacko:

http://angiekillian.tripod.com/id30.html


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## *heather*

oh my goodness Roxy, that's a bizarre combination!! Good thing the pups are so darn cute! Hopefully that will help in getting them good homes.


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## cbrand

roxy25 said:


> I was looking through black standard poodle breeders websites and came across this I sure hope this was an accident :wacko:
> 
> http://angiekillian.tripod.com/id30.html


Paige McCarver is a pro handler. One can only hope these were not client dogs. :scared:

Clearly an accident though since they are being placed for a nominal fee.


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## Fluffyspoos

Whippet doodles.. I am going to try and not lose all faith in breeders.


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## WonderPup

roxy25 said:


> I was looking through black standard poodle breeders websites and came across this I sure hope this was an accident :wacko:
> 
> http://angiekillian.tripod.com/id30.html


LoL, OOPS! At least they are cute. I love how they have one of them stacked up lol. Adorable

We had a running joke going a couple months back when Saleen was in heat, at least we think she was - dang she's SUPER CLEAN (good girl) Howie is still intact b/c we want to collect and store him. He was very interesting in getting to know Saleen a little better which of course we didn't allow. One wonders though what it might have looked like. We spent two weeks laughing to oursevles and comming up with stupid made up breed names for the newest Tibetan Spaniel X Standard Poodle designer breed and deciding just how many millions we could charge per puppy.


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## roxy25

cbrand said:


> Paige McCarver is a pro handler. One can only hope these were not client dogs. :scared:
> 
> Clearly an accident though since they are being placed for a nominal fee.



That is good it was an accident. I was looking at the pups and I was like what is wrong with their coats lol then I read the side where it said they are whippet mixed with poodle.


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## Cdnjennga

Huh, I was seriously considering a whippet at one point then settled on a mini poodle. So maybe one of these widdle pups would have been perfect for me! They're quite cute.

And what a surprise, if these were 2 of her clients, to get your champion whippet back with the news that she's expecting cross breed puppies. Whoops!


----------



## Cdnjennga

WonderPup said:


> LoL, OOPS! At least they are cute. I love how they have one of them stacked up lol. Adorable
> 
> We had a running joke going a couple months back when Saleen was in heat, at least we think she was - dang she's SUPER CLEAN (good girl) Howie is still intact b/c we want to collect and store him. He was very interesting in getting to know Saleen a little better which of course we didn't allow. One wonders though what it might have looked like. We spent two weeks laughing to oursevles and comming up with stupid made up breed names for the newest Tibetan Spaniel X Standard Poodle designer breed and deciding just how many millions we could charge per puppy.


Haha, we've had a joke like that too. Our PWD was in season and a jack russell who turned out to be intact took a liking to her. Nothing came close to happening, but we decided they would be called "Port-o-jacks" if puppies did occur.

My favourite combo names we came up with are the Havapoo (havanese/ poodle) and the Havashiht (havanese/ shih tzu).


----------



## Fluffyspoos

Cdnjennga said:


> My favourite combo names we came up with are the Havapoo (havanese/ poodle) and the Havashiht (havanese/ shih tzu).


LOL! That's hilarious!


----------



## Fluffyspoos

Aha, so they were an accident? Okay, that's understandable.


----------



## *heather*

Cdnjennga said:


> Haha, we've had a joke like that too. Our PWD was in season and a jack russell who turned out to be intact took a liking to her. Nothing came close to happening, but we decided they would be called "Port-o-jacks" if puppies did occur.
> 
> My favourite combo names we came up with are the Havapoo (havanese/ poodle) and the Havashiht (havanese/ shih tzu).


:laugh: good ones!!


----------



## *heather*

Doodle advice needed;
I have pretty strong feelings about Doodles and the Doodle industry in general, all of which have already been expressed in this thread. So here's my problem. From walking past the local dog park (it's up the road from my house about 3 blocks) I know there are at least 2 of these enormous beasts that frequent the park. I am a chatty person and love chit chatting and getting to know people, but I'm going to have a really hard time not expressing my opinions about this breed.... especially when people start asking if Rogan is a doodle?! How do you all handle this? Do you just smile and nod and not say anything? I would feel funny being fake and saying, nice dog, when I really don't believe it is. I'm really unsure of what I will do in this situation. I kinda feel the need to educate people, but I don't want to create enemies. It's a small town and there's only one dog park!! lol
How do you all co-exist in dog parks with doodles without getting into heated debates?


----------



## Flake

Not sure how I'd handle that, aside from making it clear my dog was a Poodle, just because I don't mind doodles...still cuddly curly hair teddy bears! I'd just tell them I chose a poodle over a doodle so I knew exactly what I was getting I guess.

I was starting to think this thread was getting rather offensive to the spoodle owners on here, before learning spoodle in not a spaniel poodle, but a standard poodle :doh:


----------



## Raiko

Well, just make it clear you have a poodle
then talk about what a nice dog they have
then speak your opinions on doodle breeders


----------



## Raiko

If someone takes offense to that, dont talk to them. That would be like me saying I dont like Jewel Osco's practices after meeting you and seeing you buy a bowl of fruit.

If you take offense to that.... you are way too sensitive haha


----------



## WonderPup

just like it's a bit offensive when somebody thinks my dogs are doodles or otherwise mix breeds I would assume it would be equally offensive to somebody else for me to express my strong opinion against doodles. In your position I would keep my mouth shut unless the other person started going on about how their doodle was superior in some way to my poodle. I'd politely disagree and point out that I couldn't show a doodle where as I have plans to take Saleen into the ring in the future - thats why I went looking for another spoo Jazz cannot compete ever. Thats actualy my excuse to anti purebred/breeder type personalities. If I got a mix I wouldn't be able to compete with them, (even though now you can compete with mixes but shhhh they don't know that). Another point is that a lot of doodles end up in shelters, which is very sad, so the doodle you may have objections to may have been adopted not purchased. How can anyone object to any dog adopted from a shelter, wish they all could get a home. Now if somebody asks me about doodles, like I had a client reccently asking about a perhaps getting a goldendoodle, I am quick to politely explain my opinions on them as well as present a few facts and caution said person to really do some research. I convinced this client that what would probably fit best into his family was a spoo not the goldendoodle he first thought to get. I even told him he didn't have to clip the dog to look like a poodle if he didn't want, it was all up to him haircut wise. 

You go to the park to have fun, not get into arguements or be offended by anyone  Just my opinion. I don't go to the dog park anymore with the girls, but not for that reason.


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## Harley_chik

I agree with Wonder, don't push the issue. I too would make it very clear, my dog isn't a doodle, but if they don't start in on the propaganda, leave it alone. I would have to say something if they started in on "hybrid vigor, perfect family companions, best of both breeds" nonesense, especially if there were other people around who might believe it. In that case I would ask about the breeder, if they health test, are any of their dogs titles, how many litters do they have in a year, etc. There are way more doodles on petfinder than spoos, so just assume they are rescues unless the people say otherwise. A lot of doodle owners have the idea that there is something wrong with the poodle personality, so you have an opportunity to change their minds.


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## Cdnjennga

*heather* said:


> How do you all handle this? Do you just smile and nod and not say anything? I would feel funny being fake and saying, nice dog, when I really don't believe it is. I'm really unsure of what I will do in this situation. I kinda feel the need to educate people, but I don't want to create enemies. It's a small town and there's only one dog park!! lol


I would probably keep my opinions to myself unless they started talking about the myths about doodles. Then I would correct them with a smile on my face, but not make a big deal out of it. I think it's best to keep your opinion on doodles to yourself once someone already has one. It's a different story if they're only considering it - then I'd be providing lots of links and stories on the myths of doodles.  All's fair until the puppy's at home IMO!


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## *heather*

yes, I agree with the last few posters... keeping my opinions to myself is the best option... unless they start spouting off about how great their doodle is in comparison to my Poodle. I see so much poodle in the 2 doodles at our dog park that I can't help but love them. They're huge and awkward, but they bounce around just like poodles. So.. I will try to be exceptionally nice, and not ruffle any feathers in the beginning.. and just go from there.
Thanks for the support!!


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## taxtell

I guess you just get used to it.

I get asked at least 3x a dog park trip if Flip is a doodle, because I keep him short I suppose. And he's a puppy, so smallish still.
They also ask me over and over if our Cavalier is a puppy because he's small and cute. He's four.

I am usually polite to the doodle folks...though at that big doodle meet up some lady got really angry when they asked her if her PWD was a doodle, she kind of went off. Then when someone asked me if Flip was a labradoodle or a goldendoodle, she snapped at them too, and said "He's clearly a standard poodle, not one of your ridiculous mutts!" I just kind of meandered away.


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## Harley_chik

You know, I think it's always best to ask, "What kind of dog is that?" or "Is your dog a boy or girl?" as opposed to assuming one way or another. (I added the boy/girl thing b/c I constantly get told "She is so cute" when it comes to my male Maltese. He's in a short clip and has a blue collar too.)


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## Honeytown

Harley_chik said:


> I also want to add that if the DD breeders were really interested in creating a new breed, they would quietly place most of their pups in loving pet homes(for a very small fee, if not free) and keep those that met their goals to continue their lines. Instead they start selling for top dollar from the first litter.


I'm new here but wanted to say: YES this, Excellent point.


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## Marian

I get asked almost daily if Teddy is a cocka-poo or a malti-poo. I'm so tempted to reply, "No, he's a poo-poo."


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## Honeytown

Marian said:


> I get asked almost daily if Teddy is a cocka-poo or a malti-poo. I'm so tempted to reply, "No, he's a poo-poo."


Good answer!  LOL!!!!!!!


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## Cdnjennga

taxtell said:


> I am usually polite to the doodle folks...though at that big doodle meet up some lady got really angry when they asked her if her PWD was a doodle, she kind of went off. Then when someone asked me if Flip was a labradoodle or a goldendoodle, she snapped at them too, and said "He's clearly a standard poodle, not one of your ridiculous mutts!" I just kind of meandered away.


haha, us PWD folk are touchy... Although before the doodle craze the most common question was "is that a poodle?"


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## WonderPup

Marian said:


> I get asked almost daily if Teddy is a cocka-poo or a malti-poo. I'm so tempted to reply, "No, he's a poo-poo."


ROFL, please have camera ready to capture the look on their face when you tell them it's a poo-poo LOL.


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## Alaric

The non-shedding hypoallergenic thing is nonsense. A mutt with poodle genes (or the genes of another non-shedding breed) MIGHT have such a coat, but then again it might not. My elderly mongroodle (or would that be muttipoo?) sheds like a husky in April. Just so we're clear about this, I did not spend hundreds of dollars on my muttipoo, I rescued her twelve years ago when my neighbors decided to have her euthanized.


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## Fluffyspoos

My new bosses mother wants a goldendoodle.. I've been trying to get her to talk her mother out of it. x_x I think they need to meet Vegas to see how great standards poodles are..


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## apoodleaday

Vegas could convince even the most non-poodle person to switch over


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## Flake

Fluffyspoos, I'm having a similar issue with my husbands brother and SIL. They want a doodle because they want something curly and 'slightly stupid'. 
Then they decided Duncan seemed to be a pretty cool dog for a young family.

Is that a compliment? or not? Lol.... 

At least we may be winning them over


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## BigEdLB

*Designer Breeds - Thumbs Down*

Why on earth would ANYONE want to mix a poodle with anything. Seems the breed is fine without ANY extraneous DNA floating there.


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## Spencer

I'm anti-doodle... however the kennel where I went to pick up my food today was boarding two doodles and they allowed me to pet/love on them for a second while we all talked... can I just say that the doodle puppy was the cutest little girl ever?

She looked more like a terrier and had whispy brown hair, but was very sweet... I think the only thing that will make people guess that she is a doodle and not a giant airedale mix will be her coloring and body shape.

The other doodle... well... I actually thought she was a poodle! She was cut like a poodle, and had the body of one. She was just extra tall. How stupid of these people to probably pay MORE for a doodle... but end up getting a dog that (oh heaven forbid!) looks nearly 100% poodle!

Anyway, they were both lovely dogs... I just can't wrap my head around buying one. A rescue, perhaps... but not buying one!


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## BlueSpoo

My neighbor has one, sigh. It's a sweet, cute pup, I complement it, it plays with my spoos. What can I say? 

(Well, when she asked if I would breed some doodles from Pearl so she could buy one FOR SURE, I was vague about the hassle of puppies, etc. She's a nice neighbor, & has never touted doodle superiority, & will probably live a fine life without needing to know what I think of how much she paid for it. I hope the allergy thing works out, sigh- if it wasn't a done deal, I would have definately spoken up about the coat variability.)

PS It IS the most gorgeous color, sort of a rich fawn & blue (not phantom marked, which I find unappealling, no offense to phantom-fanciers; they look like monkeys to me, & I am afraid of monkeys).

I am pro-parti ftr, though- they are part of the historical record, & AKC _re_cognition will (hopefully) improve confirmation, etc. as for CBrand's post that the clownish air doesn't suit their dignity (paraphrased, sorry, I read it months ago), well, they are the cutest, least scary clowns ever, lol. 

And our regal self-colored spoos can be great clowns, too- Pearl just learned how to slide (on her bum, lightly lifted, lol) down the slide, & if her tail carriage wasn't gayer than Graham Norton, I think (because I am her mommy) she would compare favorably to breed standard & adore being shown. 

Sorry for the digression!


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