# Finding Puppy Training Classes



## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

So I tried looking through the forum about info on finding training classes. I found some info on private trainers... is that a better way to go than classes? I'm assuming I won't be able to start puppy classes until the last parvo vaccine at around 16 weeks, or am I misunderstanding things. Would a private trainer be better at first? And if I want to find classes, what should I look for? Any places I should be searching? It all just seems overwhelming. Any advice is appreciated.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Puppy classes typically just require them to have had one or two sets of vaccines so you should be able to start them very early. I would definitely go with a class rather than a private trainer. A puppy class is about socializing your puppy to different environments, different people, different sounds, and other puppies. It works much better if it's a class. I would personally look for local obedience and training clubs. They will either offer puppy classes or be able to direct you to the best local classes. I like working with a trainer that has trained dogs to compete in dog sports like agility or rally because I think they are particularly good at prepping dogs for later training success. Or one that offers classes intended to reach the goal of Canine Good Citizen achievements. These sorts of trainers have many years of experience. What I don't want is a chain type dog training business that has poorly qualified trainers that don't know what they're doing.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Repeated post... error


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Puppy classes typically just require them to have had one or two sets of vaccines so you should be able to start them very early. I would definitely go with a class rather than a private trainer. A puppy class is about socializing your puppy to different environments, different people, different sounds, and other puppies. It works much better if it's a class. I would personally look for local obedience and training clubs. They will either offer puppy classes or be able to direct you to the best local classes. I like working with a trainer that has trained dogs to compete in dog sports like agility or rally because I think they are particularly good at prepping dogs for later training success. Or one that offers classes intended to reach the goal of Canine Good Citizen achievements. These sorts of trainers have many years of experience. What I don't want is a chain type dog training business that has poorly qualified trainers that don't know what they're doing.


Obedience and training clubs? Are they like businesses? Or non profits? I am not sure how I would even start looking for that?

[Edit, okay, I may have found something now, at least I think it's what you described.]

The local Petsmart has classes - no there. But aside from that I googled my local area, I found a few businesses, lots of people that will board for 2 weeks to train (not interested, I want to be an active participant and want to bond through training) and then individuals. And I have no clue how to evaluate, lol.

Good to know about the vaccines. The breeder will have the first 2 done by the time he gets home to me.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

AliFenrisMom said:


> Obedience and training clubs? Are they like businesses? Or non profits? I am not sure how I would even start looking for that?
> 
> The local Petsmart has classes - no there. But aside from that I googled my local area, I found a few businesses, lots of people that will board for 2 weeks to train (not interested, I want to be an active participant and want to bond through training) and then individuals. And I have no clue how to evaluate, lol.
> 
> Good to know about the vaccines. The breeder will have the first 2 done by the time he gets home to me.


The obedience clubs I know about are not profit based though they may offer classes for fees. They're often run by volunteers who do it for enjoyment because they compete with their dogs. The local club where I live organizes the Rally and Agility trials. I would do a search for your city and obedience clubs. If you live near a larger city there is likely a club local to you. For example in Miami we have the Miami Obedience Club. When I lived in Austin Texas there was the Capitol Dog Training Club of Austin. Orlando has the Orlando Dog Training Club. Some larger cities will have multiple clubs. At least in Miami, all the good trainers are fairly connected in a social network and they all compete and help to run the local sporting events.

I would avoid classes at places like pet stores or any chains. The puppy class I took Misha to was taught by an agility instructor who competes in the highest levels of agility. The obedience class he's been in was taught by a trainer who is an expert in Rally. When I'm working with a trainer like this I feel very reassured that they know what they're doing. Very different from somebody who just completed a 3-week training course for the job!

If you're in a very rural area it may be harder to find good resources and you may need to drive further. But even if you don't have a very local club you can always contact the nearest one and ask for a referral closer to you.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Do you have a community website or Facebook groups? I found our trainer through rave reviews on Nextdoor. We did an initial consultation and loved how she interacted with us and Peggy. From that consultation, she matched us to an appropriate puppy socialization class, which she ran with the help of her assistant (a retired vet tech). 

Peggy was about 12 weeks old.

There were maybe half a dozen puppies, all similar ages and all on the same vaccination schedule. We did basic obedience, positive exposure to common "scary things" (like funny hats, an examination table, vacuuming, etc.), lots of relaxing time, and a free play period at the end of each class, with the duration carefully tailored to the puppies' age. (It's amazing how much they change from week to week.)

During the play period, the owners were encouraged to stay very engaged so we could learn the signs of "good" play vs. bullying, over-tired puppies, etc. We regularly interrupted to let them settle and then rejoin the fun. It was such a valuable experience and I'm glad I did it with my husband so we were on the same page. If there's anyone else in your household, see if you can convince them to attend at least a class or two.

When choosing a trainer, I recommend looking for someone who specializes in positive reenforcement. Ours is certified by the Karen Pryor Academy: 









Find a Trainer


View profiles of KPA DTP program graduate CTP certified dog trainers from around the world. Peruse our online directory to find a top tier dog training instructor near you.




karenpryoracademy.com





She also regularly does behaviour consultations for our local animal shelters, so that's somewhere you could ask for suggestions.


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> The obedience clubs I know about are not profit based though they may offer classes for fees. They're often run by volunteers who do it for enjoyment because they compete with their dogs. The local club where I live organizes the Rally and Agility trials. I would do a search for your city and obedience clubs. If you live near a larger city there is likely a club local to you. For example in Miami we have the Miami Obedience Club. When I lived in Austin Texas there was the Capitol Dog Training Club of Austin. Orlando has the Orlando Dog Training Club. Some larger cities will have multiple clubs. At least in Miami, all the good trainers are fairly connected in a social network and they all compete and help to run the local sporting events.
> 
> I would avoid classes at places like pet stores or any chains. The puppy class I took Misha to was taught by an agility instructor who competes in the highest levels of agility. The obedience class he's been in was taught by a trainer who is an expert in Rally. When I'm working with a trainer like this I feel very reassured that they know what they're doing. Very different from somebody who just completed a 3-week training course for the job!
> 
> If you're in a very rural area it may be harder to find good resources and you may need to drive further. But even if you don't have a very local club you can always contact the nearest one and ask for a referral closer to you.


I found the Obedience Training Club of Palm Beach County. Seems to be the closest one to me. So I think I'll try with them, thanks so much for your advice! If you have any other South Florida tips on poodles or dog stuff/events down here, let me know. I live in PBC but can drive down (even to Miami, though I hate the traffic), if needed.


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Do you have a community website or Facebook groups? I found our trainer through rave reviews on Nextdoor. We did an initial consultation and loved how she interacted with us and Peggy. From that consultation, she matched us to an appropriate puppy socialization class, which she ran with the help of her assistant (a retired vet tech).
> 
> Peggy was about 12 weeks old.
> 
> ...


That sounds like an amazing class, would love to take it! I'll see what I can find through Facebook. I kind of abandoned it but it's maybe time to return. 

And, yeah, I've been looking for positive re-enforcement specifically too. Thanks for the advice, it helps me order my thoughts on this. I think having all this time to anticipate the puppy is going to drive me bit crazy.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

AliFenrisMom said:


> That sounds like an amazing class, would love to take it! I'll see what I can find through Facebook. I kind of abandoned it but it's maybe time to return.
> 
> And, yeah, I've been looking for positive re-enforcement specifically too. Thanks for the advice, it helps me order my thoughts on this. I think having all this time to anticipate the puppy is going to drive me bit crazy.


For puppy classes specifically (especially with covid!) it's good to be prepared. That socialization window is small and precious.

If you've not already, give this book a read:









Before and After Getting Your Puppy: The Positive Approach to Raising a Happy, Healthy, and Well-Behaved Dog: Dunbar, Dr. Ian: 8601200633603: Amazon.com: Books


Before and After Getting Your Puppy: The Positive Approach to Raising a Happy, Healthy, and Well-Behaved Dog [Dunbar, Dr. Ian] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Before and After Getting Your Puppy: The Positive Approach to Raising a Happy, Healthy, and Well-Behaved Dog



www.amazon.com




Also available online for free:



https://www.dogstardaily.com/files/BEFORE%20You%20Get%20Your%20Puppy.pdf





https://www.dogstardaily.com/files/downloads/AFTER_You_Get_Your_Puppy.pdf



It'll really help structure your prep and channel that excited energy.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

AliFenrisMom said:


> I found the Obedience Training Club of Palm Beach County. Seems to be the closest one to me. So I think I'll try with them, thanks so much for your advice! If you have any other South Florida tips on poodles or dog stuff/events down here, let me know. I live in PBC but can drive down (even to Miami, though I hate the traffic), if needed.


Awesome! Didn't realize you were so close! I'll let you know next time there's an agility event down in Miami. They're usually every 3-4 months but obviously nothing since covid. I always try to go though I don't know when Misha will be ready to start competing.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Raindrops, would you call it a red flag if a website pronounces "In just 2 weeks...." or "we guarantee..." ?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Rose n Poos I will answer the question that you asked Raindrops and of course she can too. Yes it would be a red flag to me. No one can guarantee a specific result about training in a short window of time and to do so seems foolish in the extreme to me. Yelp has power. FB has power....

OP I am really glad you found a club that you can get to with your pup. I am not in FL and therefore am not familiar with area clubs, but obedience clubs everywhere are generally not for profit and sanctioned by the AKC. It may be that some instructors are not super terrific, but they generally have a lot of experience. I teach at an AKC sanctioned club and think all of my friends who also teach there are good even if one or two of them are a bit old fashioned. We all have shown dogs to obedience and other titles.

I also have to say that while you should be careful in choosing, going to a pet store is better than going nowhere. It happened to be more convenient to go to a store class for puppy K with Lily and Peeves. Because the instructor was really good we stuck with her for an intermediate class too. Then we were able to get into a CGC class at a good time/day for a CGC class at the club I now teach at.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

lily cd re said:


> I also have to say that while you should be careful in choosing, going to a pet store is better than going nowhere. It happened to be more convenient to go to a store class for puppy K with Lily and Peeves. Because the instructor was really good we stuck with her for an intermediate class too. Then we were able to get into a CGC class at a good time/day for a CGC class at the club I now teach at.


Good reminder that there can be good (and bad!) trainers anywhere. Our neighbours have a beautifully trained dog who works with his owner in rehabilitation centres for the elderly. He, too, got his start at a pet store class. 

The key, though, is that his owner was dog savvy to begin with. It's harder to spot a poor class when you're new to puppy ownership. But I suppose that's where we can help out! Prior research and following your gut are also important.


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> For puppy classes specifically (especially with covid!) it's good to be prepared. That socialization window is small and precious.
> 
> If you've not already, give this book a read:
> 
> ...


That is awesome! I am going to read that right away. Thanks!


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Awesome! Didn't realize you were so close! I'll let you know next time there's an agility event down in Miami. They're usually every 3-4 months but obviously nothing since covid. I always try to go though I don't know when Misha will be ready to start competing.


I would love to see an event like that, sounds like so much fun! Thanks!

Pup is not coming home until early Nov. But if you were up for any park playdates (once Fenris has his shots), I would love for him to have local-ish poodle friends.


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

lily cd re said:


> Rose n Poos I will answer the question that you asked Raindrops and of course she can too. Yes it would be a red flag to me. No one can guarantee a specific result about training in a short window of time and to do so seems foolish in the extreme to me. Yelp has power. FB has power....
> 
> OP I am really glad you found a club that you can get to with your pup. I am not in FL and therefore am not familiar with area clubs, but obedience clubs everywhere are generally not for profit and sanctioned by the AKC. It may be that some instructors are not super terrific, but they generally have a lot of experience. I teach at an AKC sanctioned club and think all of my friends who also teach there are good even if one or two of them are a bit old fashioned. We all have shown dogs to obedience and other titles.
> 
> I also have to say that while you should be careful in choosing, going to a pet store is better than going nowhere. It happened to be more convenient to go to a store class for puppy K with Lily and Peeves. Because the instructor was really good we stuck with her for an intermediate class too. Then we were able to get into a CGC class at a good time/day for a CGC class at the club I now teach at.


Thanks! I just don't trust my assessment of what is good or bad training, or what it looks like. I've watched a ton of YouTube videos and it's hilarious just how many "professional trainers" on there will say contradictory stuff. I'm more of a visual learner, which is why I turned to YouTube first rather than books, since it's easier to understand someone when I see it.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

You'll get pretty consistent recommendations here for positive reinforcement training methods. 
Names that come up frequently are Ian Dunbar, Zak George, Kikopup, Susan Garrett, to name a few. 
There's certifications to look for also, the titles and acronyms escape me for the moment. 
Poodles are sensitive dogs who generally learn quickly. An instructor with poodle experience is a help.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Kikopup, Spirit Dog, and Zak George are all online trainers I trust. Zak's got a good YouTube series called "The Dog Training Experience," which documents life with his puppy Inertia. It was really great following along as I navigated Peggy's first year:






The one thing I caution about videos, though, is they often miss a lot of the nuance of training, and they tend to make it all look a little too easy. A written guide and in-person trainer fill those gaps.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Rose and I are on the same wavelength


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Peggy look for people who are members of APDT and are CPDT-KA certified among others like Karen Pryor clicker trainer certified folks, like Click.


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

lily cd re said:


> Peggy look for people who are members of APDT and are CPDT-KA certified among others like Karen Pryor clicker trainer certified folks, like Click.


That is one thing I don't get, I've watched so much on clicker training, read about it, and I just don't get it. I've seen the people that reinforce with "yes!" and treats, that I get. Do you think one way is better than another?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

For me verbal markers work best since I don't have enough hands on my klutzy self to have good clicker timing. But there are brilliant clicker trainers including our member Click-N-Treat.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I preferred starting out without the clicker. I think those first few months are more about bonding, positive exposure/socialization, and confidence-building. With a poodle especially, obedience training builds easily on that solid foundation.

That said, the clicker was a revelation. For trick training, especially. I call it my human-poodle translator.


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I preferred starting out without the clicker. I think those first few months are more about bonding, positive exposure/socialization, and confidence-building. With a poodle especially, obedience training builds easily on that solid foundation.
> 
> That said, the clicker was a revelation. For trick training, especially. I call it my human-poodle translator.


Do you have any clicker sources that explain it for dummies? I've really had a hard time understand how clicker training should work. Verbal responses seem so easy, pup does an approximate action, give treat, praise. Then give treats periodically for closer approximations of action while praising all the time. Then even less treats, praise is paired with action. But I have no idea where clickers come into that dynamic. (My description is just an oversimplified version of my understanding of positive reinforcement training). Is the clicker like Pavlov's bell maybe?


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

It doesn’t have to be an AKC affiliated dog training club. I belong to two clubs, one is an AKC affiliated. The other is affiliated with several dog sports organizations and they offer many dog sports that AKC clubs can’t with lots of overlap. People at both my clubs participate in Trials put on by both my clubs. 

The key is these are nonprofit clubs devoted to both excellent basic dog training for pets as well as training and holding trials for those who wish to participate in dog sports. Teachers are volunteers and the money charged helps cover costs of building and running the club. 

Anyone who participates in dog sports wants a solid puppy foundation of basic obedience and they are very interested in quality class for their dogs. They are also open to people with puppies taking classes. You never know when there’s someone like me who is taking the first dog they have trained to a basic obedience class. I discovered this whole world of dog sports and fell in love with training and participating as well as the friendships etc. Quality puppy classes are where they get new members. There’s no pressure to join or enter dog sports. They know most people are there to get a good start with their new pet puppy. 

What’s wonderful about these classes is both the trainers and class members can share resources of where to get things for your puppy in your community. You will also find help with other questions that pop up that may not be in the curriculum. 

There are also excellent private trainers who usually also participate in dog sports and open a private facility the problem is there’s also some bad ones. It’s hard to know who to avoid and who are good. I started at a terrible one, she owns an agility/rally training facility. She has a horrible reputation in the area and has been kicked out of AKC because one of her dogs bit another in a competition. All her dogs are aggressive. I found her first because she advertises and always comes up on google searches as the first one. Plus she was the closest.... and more expensive although I didn’t know it when I signed up. I left there and found another private training facility which also does doggie day care and a quality dog food store. Fabulous trainer and I would have stuck with them. They participate in dog sports but only offer basic training. That’s when I found my two dog training clubs. I currently take a nose work class from yet another small private dog training place. Again owner and my teacher both participate in dog sport and my teacher is a judge for AKC. 

The dog classes at my local big box pet stores are not as good as those at the dog clubs or private businesses where the trainers also compete. If this was the only choice someone had the. I would tell them to go because you will get something out of it and you might be lucky and have a really good teacher. But look around first for other choices. 

BTW dog clubs are usually located out of the city where large industrial size buildings are cheaper to rent. I usually drive close to an hour to the various places I train. It’s worth it to travel for 8 weeks of classes to a distant location for a good class.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

AliFenrisMom said:


> Do you have any clicker sources that explain it for dummies? I've really had a hard time understand how clicker training should work. Verbal responses seem so easy, pup does an approximate action, give treat, praise. Then give treats periodically for closer approximations of action while praising all the time. Then even less treats, praise is paired with action. But I have no idea where clickers come into that dynamic. (My description is just an oversimplified version of my understanding of positive reinforcement training). Is the clicker like Pavlov's bell maybe?


I think this is a pretty good overview:









Clicker Training 101: A Quick Beginner’s Guide


If you’re just getting started with training your dog, you’ve probably encountered the term “clicker training” at least once or twice. Maybe you’ve overheard another student in your obedience class…



www.drjensdogblog.com





What makes clicker training so great is the precision. It signals to the dog that that _exact_ thing they just did was good and a reward is coming. You begin by establishing a strong connection between the sound of a click and a treat. So literally: Click. Treat. Click. Treat. Click. Treat.

Once the dog knows that click = treat, the fun begins!

I'll be honest, I didn't get it either at first. And from talking to our trainer about it, I've learned that a _lot_ of people don't get it—even those who think they're doing it correctly.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Rose n Poos said:


> Raindrops, would you call it a red flag if a website pronounces "In just 2 weeks...." or "we guarantee..." ?


Definitely. Every dog is different. Some dogs have psychological issues that make training take much more time and effort than others. Some dogs have issues that can only be managed because they are too ingrained to train out. You cannot guarantee a dog will respond to a training program. I usually see guarantees like this from trainers that use strong aversives.


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I think this is a pretty good overview:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's good to know that I'm not the only one confused there. I just have to keep telling myself that if I love him and do my best to take care of him, there is no mistake I can make training wise that will screw him up forever. At least I hope so.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

AliFenrisMom said:


> It's good to know that I'm not the only one confused there. I just have to keep telling myself that if I love him and do my best to take care of him, there is no mistake I can make training wise that will screw him up forever. At least I hope so.


You've got this.  And we're always here to answer questions.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

lily cd re said:


> For me verbal markers work best since I don't have enough hands on my klutzy self to have good clicker timing. But there are brilliant clicker trainers including our member Click-N-Treat.


I'm the opposite. I tend to have a hands on learning and teaching style. (Kinesthetic, I think it has been called.) I need something to do with my hands, especially when I'm nervous or stressed. Managing the clicker helps me focus.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

cowpony yes, kinesthetic for hands on learning. Often really good trainers use a combination of that with verbal and visual since we have so many learning styles.


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

So I am in panic mode, the local obedience and training club won't have anymore classes until the new year. I have no idea how to assess any other local classes, I even really can't find many others (except for places like petsmart) when I google local places I just see private sessions and those board your puppy for 2 weeks places. I feel like a new mom who missed getting her kid into pre-school and now he's never going to get into Harvard (yeah, I'm exaggerating but I still feel horrible and lost right now). Any other ideas where and how to find good puppy training classes?


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Run a search for agility classes in your area. Then look at the facility's list of other training classes. There's a good chance they have basic manners classes for young dogs.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

First build a list of options (consulting Facebook, Nextdoor, other local groups, animal shelters, vet, groomer) and then you can evaluate. If the only puppy socialization class is at a big box store, you could complement it with private sessions with a good positive reinforcement trainer.


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

cowpony said:


> Run a search for agility classes in your area. Then look at the facility's list of other training classes. There's a good chance they have basic manners classes for young dogs.


Good idea, I would not have thought if that. Its no wonder so many people out there don't have trained dogs, it's really hard finding a class that's not Petsmart.


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> First build a list of options (consulting Facebook, Nextdoor, other local groups, animal shelters, vet, groomer) and then you can evaluate. If the only puppy socialization class is at a big box store, you could complement it with private sessions with a good positive reinforcement trainer.


Thanks! I went on Facebook and don't have any recs yet, hopefully more will come. I don't know what Nextdoor is so that's my next stop. And sadly my cat has been going to the Petsmart vet since it is the closest vet to my house and my cat does not handle car trips well, he is a nervous pooper. So I am still looking for another vet, and again I am such a hermit who doesn't really know dog people that I don't really have anyone to ask for recs. I was also going to go to the groomer at Petsmart _hides ashamed_. And my breeder is a 1.5 hour drive away so she only has local recs near her.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

AliFenrisMom said:


> So I am in panic mode, the local obedience and training club won't have anymore classes until the new year. I have no idea how to assess any other local classes, I even really can't find many others (except for places like petsmart) when I google local places I just see private sessions and those board your puppy for 2 weeks places. I feel like a new mom who missed getting her kid into pre-school and now he's never going to get into Harvard (yeah, I'm exaggerating but I still feel horrible and lost right now). Any other ideas where and how to find good puppy training classes?


Weren't you looking at the Obedience Training Club of Palm Beach County? I checked their site and there's no indication they're not holding classes. They just give procedures for safety during covid. Their next puppy class is scheduled for later this month.





__





AKC Star Puppy - OTCPBC


Puppy classes at Obedience Training Club of Palm Beach County, Florida.




otcpbc.org


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Weren't you looking at the Obedience Training Club of Palm Beach County? I checked their site and there's no indication they're not holding classes. They just give procedures for safety during covid. Their next puppy class is scheduled for later this month.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I e-mailed them asking about any future dates and they said the one starting on Oct 26th is the last of the year (and full) and I can get on the waiting list for classes starting in January. My pup is coming home at 9 weeks and a day Nov 7, so he wouldn't be the minimum 10 weeks until the 13th of November. But the person responding confirmed no late November or December start dates.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

AliFenrisMom said:


> I e-mailed them asking about any future dates and they said the one starting on Oct 26th is the last of the year (and full) and I can get on the waiting list for classes starting in January. My pup is coming home at 9 weeks and a day Nov 7, so he wouldn't be the minimum 10 weeks until the 13th of November. But the person responding confirmed no late November or December start dates.


Ah that's weird they're not having more classes. Another in that area is Lucky Dog Training Club which looks great. They have a few classes starting every month it looks like and the one starting at the end of October has openings so the November ones should as well. If it's within driving distance I would try there.





__





Puppy Training & Socialization |







luckydogtrainingclub.com


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Ah that's weird they're not having more classes. Another in that area is Lucky Dog Training Club which looks great. They have a few classes starting every month it looks like and the one starting at the end of October has openings so the November ones should as well. If it's within driving distance I would try there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks! I'll check them out. I actually just found them after googling agility classes near me, it's not something that searching for puppy classes even picked up. And I am glad you think they look great, I was just wondering myself if it was a good place. Thanks!


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

AliFenrisMom said:


> Thanks! I'll check them out. I actually just found them after googling agility classes near me, it's not something that searching for puppy classes even picked up. And I am glad you think they look great, I was just wondering myself if it was a good place. Thanks!


The trainers look very good and they have classes that look like the sort I'd want to see. I'd feel very confident signing up with them. Searching for agility classes is actually my go-to for finding good trainers!


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> The trainers look very good and they have classes that look like the sort I'd want to see. I'd feel very confident signing up with them. Searching for agility classes is actually my go-to for finding good trainers!


Thanks! The only thing that makes we weary is that they use clickers, and I wanted to find someone that uses marker words like "yes" but I guess beggars can't be choosers. Clickers make me so nervous.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

AliFenrisMom said:


> Thanks! The only thing that makes we weary is that they use clickers, and I wanted to find someone that uses marker words like "yes" but I guess beggars can't be choosers. Clickers make me so nervous.


Classes often use clickers because beginners find them easier to use than marker words. You may be able to just ask if you can use a marker instead.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Even a not great class is better than no class in all likelihood. I would just go to petsmart or petco. We took Lily and Peeves to petsmart puppy and intermediate classes and they were fine. If the instructor wants you to do comething that doesn't feel right ask about why they want that to happen. It is your money after all. The other people and puppies/dogs in those petsmart classes had all good intentions and sincere desire to do right with their pups. After all they bothered to do something rather than nothing.

BTW I am a klutz with a clicker. My timing is much better with a verbal. I think it is worth trying the clicker, but if it doesn't work for you go with what does work.


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Classes often use clickers because beginners find them easier to use than marker words. You may be able to just ask if you can use a marker instead.


i guess I'd the odd one then. Marker words just sound so simple, the dog does something good, you tell it that it did good with "yes" (with food). I guess my problem is getting my head around how a click can have any meaning. And thank you for your help! I think waiting on a puppy is the worst, I have too much time to over research everything. Always did better by just doing.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

You have to load or charge the clicker. The first times you click it is literally just click treat click treat click treat... until the sound of the clicker become a bridge to the idea that the reward is coming. Think of it like Pavlov's dogs the bell had no meaning until they learned (were conditioned) to recognise the bell meant the food would be coming such that now they salivated at the sound of the bell not just the food presentation. Your word of yes or good has to be conditioned to serve as a bridge just like the clicker.


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

lily cd re said:


> You have to load or charge the clicker. The first times you click it is literally just click treat click treat click treat... until the sound of the clicker become a bridge to the idea that the reward is coming. Think of it like Pavlov's dogs the bell had no meaning until they learned (were conditioned) to recognise the bell meant the food would be coming such that now they salivated at the sound of the bell not just the food presentation. Your word of yes or good has to be conditioned to serve as a bridge just like the clicker.


So what's the difference between one and the other then? From your description it seems like they are the same and I won't always have a clicker on me, so wouldn't a marker word just be easier in the long run? Am I missing something about the clickers? Is there some sort of advantage down the line to using a clicker?


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

One of the advantages of using a clicker is that it takes the tone out of the communication, so the dog understands it did well no matter how you’re feeling, since otherwise they rely a lot on the tone of your voice. In addition, it’s much easier to shape a behavior when you click at the precise moment rather than have a delay between speaking and the desired behavior. That being said, it is a little clumsy to hold the clicker and treat at the same time, and takes some practice.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Sounds like you've found a good class, if they are using clickers. 

I like using a clicker a lot - Annie knows both a clicker, and verbal markers. Mine has a wrist strap, which is key - the one I had before didn't and I kept dropping it on her head lol. 

I also tongue click as a marker when carrying a clicker is awkward. Clicking is faster, and different sounding than my usual human babble, which helps a lot with her registering the sound. I'm also way less likely to click and then not give a treat (breaking the clicker contract), while I will say "good!" without giving a treat. A click is shorter than "good" or "yes", which helps target the behaviour better - sometimes when I use a marker word, she's doing something other than what I wanted by the time I finish the word, so I find a clicker helps pinpoint what I want faster. Over time, since I usually only bring out the clicker for training new behaviours, using a clicker has come to mean "we are learning something new now!" which means she's more likely to try new things. Annie gets excited when she hears me rattle the clicker, and ask if she wants to work.


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Sounds like you've found a good class, if they are using clickers.
> 
> I like using a clicker a lot - Annie knows both a clicker, and verbal markers. Mine has a wrist strap, which is key - the one I had before didn't and I kept dropping it on her head lol.
> 
> I also tongue click as a marker when carrying a clicker is awkward. Clicking is faster, and different sounding than my usual human babble, which helps a lot with her registering the sound. I'm also way less likely to click and then not give a treat (breaking the clicker contract), while I will say "good!" without giving a treat. A click is shorter than "good" or "yes", which helps target the behaviour better - sometimes when I use a marker word, she's doing something other than what I wanted by the time I finish the word, so I find a clicker helps pinpoint what I want faster. Over time, since I usually only bring out the clicker for training new behaviours, using a clicker has come to mean "we are learning something new now!" which means she's more likely to try new things. Annie gets excited when she hears me rattle the clicker, and ask if she wants to work.


Thanks, that's the best explanation that I have read about this. It actually helps a lot in understanding. And it helps a lot to see the benefit of such training. I'll try that class, maybe even try the clicker. Maybe I just dread it because it's so unknown. Thank you so much for sharing your personal story about training!


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

AliFenrisMom said:


> Thanks, that's the best explanation that I have read about this. It actually helps a lot in understanding. And it helps a lot to see the benefit of such training. I'll try that class, maybe even try the clicker. Maybe I just dread it because it's so unknown. Thank you so much for sharing your personal story about training!


I think you will do well. I felt good about taking a puppy class from an experienced trainer because I feel like they are better at answering your random questions that will undoubtedly come up. I think the issue with using marker words is what Floofy said. People have a hard time grasping that they need to say it exactly the same way each time and it must be the same word. For me, I have different markers for "Good" and "Yes" so I like it, but it can be confusing for new learners. There is really no difference between a marker word and a click. It is a signal that the dog associates with good. How does it associate it? You need to prime it by associating it with treats. It is really the same. I like the sort of clicker that loops your thumb so it doesn't mean another thing to hold. Here is the link. Available at Petco.



https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjL-MCUyKDsAhVCglsKHS_jAAoYABAHGgJ5bQ&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESP-D25PpahiDJg4OpblXxuOBitYqtaXOdHDwI_dKXPblhccvSgaU2_4Qb_9o5oy41eLH0HWbo8_26L84nInYSYw&sig=AOD64_0nt280PXBMMMR7wCPyXuB95SUsTg&ctype=46&q=&ved=2ahUKEwjuo7eUyKDsAhUt11kKHTxZCroQqyh6BAgWEEk&adurl=


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> I think you will do well. I felt good about taking a puppy class from an experienced trainer because I feel like they are better at answering your random questions that will undoubtedly come up. I think the issue with using marker words is what Floofy said. People have a hard time grasping that they need to say it exactly the same way each time and it must be the same word. For me, I have different markers for "Good" and "Yes" so I like it, but it can be confusing for new learners. There is really no difference between a marker word and a click. It is a signal that the dog associates with good. How does it associate it? You need to prime it by associating it with treats. It is really the same. I like the sort of clicker that loops your thumb so it doesn't mean another thing to hold. Here is the link. Available at Petco.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjL-MCUyKDsAhVCglsKHS_jAAoYABAHGgJ5bQ&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESP-D25PpahiDJg4OpblXxuOBitYqtaXOdHDwI_dKXPblhccvSgaU2_4Qb_9o5oy41eLH0HWbo8_26L84nInYSYw&sig=AOD64_0nt280PXBMMMR7wCPyXuB95SUsTg&ctype=46&q=&ved=2ahUKEwjuo7eUyKDsAhUt11kKHTxZCroQqyh6BAgWEEk&adurl=


You guys are starting to convert me to that way of thinking. I'm still worried I won't have the coordination needed to do everything at once with my hands but I guess we'll see. If it doesn't work after taking the class, I can try something different. And thank you for the explanations, they are better than what I have read so far.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

The clicker is a uniform bridge marker whereas voice has inflections, but they are both used for the same purpose. As I said above I do use verbal markers and just three different words. Yes means that was excellent I will give you a break and time to enjoy a cookie. Good means that was just that, good, but we will continue working and no means that was wrong, let's reset and try again. That works best for me, for some people the clicker is best. I think it is worth trying both ways and figure out what works best for you and your pup. The other thing I don't love about clickers is that they are a very short marker. I also know some folks who just lay it on too thick with a click, pressing it multiple times for one event. There is one person who I have forbade further use of a clicker in my novice class because I don't think it means anything to her younger dog. I've also seem them annoy non-clicker trained/noise sensitive dogs.


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

lily cd re said:


> The clicker is a uniform bridge marker whereas voice has inflections, but they are both used for the same purpose. As I said above I do use verbal markers and just three different words. Yes means that was excellent I will give you a break and time to enjoy a cookie. Good means that was just that, good, but we will continue working and no means that was wrong, let's reset and try again. That works best for me, for some people the clicker is best. I think it is worth trying both ways and figure out what works best for you and your pup. The other thing I don't love about clickers is that they are a very short marker. I also know some folks who just lay it on too thick with a click, pressing it multiple times for one event. There is one person who I have forbade further use of a clicker in my novice class because I don't think it means anything to her younger dog. I've also seem them annoy non-clicker trained/noise sensitive dogs.


Haha! I can so see myself multi-clicking it, trying to figure out if it's working. I also always click my pens absently, which is another reason why I initially did not think the clicker would work well. I can see myself absently just clicking it. But like you said, it's worth a try. I have to keep repeating to myself that I can't permanently screw this puppy up or the anxiety will get to me (maybe it already has).


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

AliFenrisMom said:


> Haha! I can so see myself multi-clicking it, trying to figure out if it's working. I also always click my pens absently, which is another reason why I initially did not think the clicker would work well. I can see myself absently just clicking it. But like you said, it's worth a try. I have to keep repeating to myself that I can't permanently screw this puppy up or the anxiety will get to me (maybe it already has).


Everybody makes mistakes, especially with their first dog. The fact that you are doing the research puts you ahead of 95% of people (based on my observations of the general public). It will be a steep learning curve but it will enrich your life. I like to think of training as developing a language between you and your dog. Part verbal and part gesture, but eventually the communication will come so naturally that you won't even think about it.


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Everybody makes mistakes, especially with their first dog. The fact that you are doing the research puts you ahead of 95% of people (based on my observations of the general public). It will be a steep learning curve but it will enrich your life. I like to think of training as developing a language between you and your dog. Part verbal and part gesture, but eventually the communication will come so naturally that you won't even think about it.


I hope so. I take responsibility seriously and it bothers me if I don't have the perfect plan, or even that there is no such thing. I think once he is here I'll just calm down since I won't have time to overthink everything since I'll be struggling to find a moment to sleep. Thank you for being so helpful!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I love the clicker for specific training tasks, but I don't really understand how it would fit in to a puppy socialization class, especially with novice owners/handlers. Did you read the clicker link I provided further back in this thread? It's a good overview that will answer a lot of your questions.

And have you spoken with the person who leads the class? They should be able to explain their methodology and the reason behind it.


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I love the clicker for specific training tasks, but I don't really understand how it would fit in to a puppy socialization class, especially with novice owners/handlers. Did you read the clicker link I provided further back in this thread? It's a good overview that will answer a lot of your questions.
> 
> And have you spoken with the person who leads the class? They should be able to explain their methodology and the reason behind it.


I will have to go back to that link. I think I got a bit distracted and it's still on my to read list. And I just found this place today so contacting them is on my to do list.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

There's a lot of info out there to wade through! I totally get it. But just to reassure you: It doesn't matter if you don't have a clicker when you're out and about, even if you've used it for training. It's a useful tool, but not a crutch. You can function fine without it.

What you _should_ always have is a pocket full of treats. You never know what you'll encounter out in the world with your puppy, and yummy things are a great way to turn scary situations into positive teachable moments.

If you're starting to get overwhelmed by resources, I can't recommend that Ian Dunbar book enough. I linked it on page 1 of this thread. It's honestly so much more helpful than random advice from a ton of well-meaning people, some of which will inevitably contradict.

Dr. Dunbar is a puppy socialization pioneer. His teachings will be a part of just about any class you find.

Once you read his book cover-to-cover, you'll feel much more confident evaluating classes, asking questions, and processing a variety of answers. It provides an excellent foundation.


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## AliFenrisMom (Sep 14, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> There's a lot of info out there to wade through! I totally get it. But just to reassure you: It doesn't matter if you don't have a clicker when you're out and about, even if you've used it for training. It's a useful tool, but not a crutch. You can function fine without it.
> 
> What you _should_ always have is a pocket full of treats. You never know what you'll encounter out in the world with your puppy, and yummy things are a great way to turn scary situations into positive teachable moments.
> 
> ...


Lol, I ordered one of those treat fanny pack things with a magnetic opening for easy access. 

I also just got the Kindle version of Dunbar's book, will start reading tonight. Thanks!


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

AliFenrisMom said:


> I hope so. I take responsibility seriously and it bothers me if I don't have the perfect plan, or even that there is no such thing. I think once he is here I'll just calm down since I won't have time to overthink everything since I'll be struggling to find a moment to sleep. Thank you for being so helpful!


You are right about the exhaustion. There is a thread on here that's stickied called something like Puppy Realities. Definitely give it a read through. I'd link but I'm using phone. If you expect the puppy blues, you are much less likely to suffer from them.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

AliFenrisMom said:


> Lol, I ordered one of those treat fanny pack things with a magnetic opening for easy access.
> 
> I also just got the Kindle version of Dunbar's book, will start reading tonight. Thanks!


Haha! Yes!! My husband and I each have a treat pouch, and I'm still constantly finding crumbs in my pockets. Puppy life.


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