# Becoming Frustrated



## JagsMom (Feb 6, 2013)

My boy Jagger is so squirrely! Beginning at 4 mos I took him to "puppy socialization" class where I was never able to get him to focus on what what we were doing (unless he chose too of course!) He was much more interested in what everyone else was doing and continually flipped around at the end of the leash trying to reach the other pups. After finishing that 6 week session we enrolled with a different club with the thought that maybe the first one's techniques weren't right for Jag. The second group encouraged much more rigid guidelines but after another 4 weeks and no change, the trainer suggested I try a prong collar. After 10 minutes of that poor Jaggie was so traumatized he wanted nothing to do with me and wouldn't come to me the rest of the evening and the next day. I felt terrible! Now what? When I walk with him in the neighborhood he is great on a loose leash but all bets are off if there are any distractions--another walker, another dog, even a _bird_, LOL. He's like a kangaroo! He's now 6 mos, am i expecting too much? Any help please???


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## murphys (Mar 1, 2012)

I can only speak from my own experience. I have a almost 11 month old spoo that I got at 7 1/2 months. We are in a 6 week session of obedience and it wasn't until the 4th class that he would pay attention to me consistently rather then all the other distractions in the room (puppies, people, treats). We are still working on it but he is getting better. What our instructor is teaching us is to have him learn the command look as in look at us. Then to teach him to heel and pay attention to us. It also helps if I give him a lot of exercise before we go to class so he is a tired puppy.

I would suggest going to a "star" puppy class. I was told by the local kennel club that this class is required to be taught by a AKC certified teacher for what it is worth.

He is 6 months old. He is a puppy. I wouldn't use a prong collar on him.

By the way, I call our weekly obedience class my weekly class in humility. The most important thing is to remember to try to keep your sense of humor and love your puppy. The first class, two people were late and Fritz informed the entire class of their tardiness by barking at each of them as they arrived and that was just the beginning. Yup, he keeps me humble.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

A 4 month old puppy is too old for a puppy socialization class IMO. A STAR puppy class or even now a CGC class (which also will be an AKC approved/certified evaluator) would probably be very helpful. I would not expect heeling from an adolescent dog (which is what your dog is approaching now). There is a difference between loose leash walking and heeling. 

You want loose leash walking. I would suggest the following. Start out for your walk making sure the dog is near you and there is no tension on the leash. As soon as a distraction comes along that pulls him out to the end of the leash, give a quick pop on the leash while saying "uh oh, let's go this way" or simply "oops, let's go" and reverse your direction. Keep doing this over and over so that he learns tension on leash means I don't get to look at or interact with that thing I wanted so badly. When Lily was a puppy, I am sure my neighbors thought I was crazy since sometimes it would take me half an hour to get anything more than one house away from my own house. There were many days we didn't make it off our own short little part of our block. Now I only hold the leash so I can close my hand on it to keep her close if there is a car or some other hazard nearby.

Heeling is having your dog attentively look towards you while walking directly lined up with you left hip. When heeling a dog will take cues from your body position and pace for halts (with automatic sits) and for changes of pace. Really good heeling is not something to expect from most dogs until they are well over a year old (some even later, some never). Lily is a good heeler, but I've worked hard to get it.

Not to stir pinch collar controversy back up again (and I do use them limitedly) I would not use one on a dog the age of yours. You should look for a training class that will help your dog to learn good attention skills. As murphys said, a "look" command.

Be patient, your dog is the equivalent of a tween right now. Think about tweens...moody, unpredictable, uncommunicative, monosyllabic. But she used to be so nice and cheerful and outgoing....and by the time she graduates from high school she is all those lovely things again. How do parents live through all that? By being persistent, consistent and very, very patient.


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## Angl (Nov 9, 2012)

Omg, max's teacher told us to hold the treat between our eyes. Say "look at me." Get the time longer and longer. Oh my goodness that was the one command max is consistent with.


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## murphys (Mar 1, 2012)

Thanks Lily cd re for explaining the difference between loose leash walking and heeling. We are just beginning to learn heeling and Fritz is almost 11 months. The look command has proved invaluable.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

First, I'd bury the prong collar somewhere deep in the garden, and let Jagger help, so he knows it's gone for good. Then I would read Jean Donaldson's "How to train your dog like a pro" for a good understanding of the three Ds - Distance, Duration and Distraction - and how to proof a training exercise for all three. And then I'd do lots of work off leash - work out what he really, really loves, whether roast chicken, tug toy, squeaky toy or whatever, and teach him that walking with you round the house gets regular treats or play. Then in the yard. Then with the leash on in the house and yard. Be generous, but after the first few yards try to phase out the lure, and reward from your pocket or a pouch. "Look at me" is another really good skill to teach. 

When you are out, and he lunges, I'd turn and walk away - if possible before he gets excited enough to lunge, then turn and approach again. Calm behaviour = meet other person/dog (with their agreement, of course). Rude behaviour = greater distance from the object of desire. If you can set up sessions with friends with nice dogs, even better - they will know to ignore him when he is being rude. But as others have said, he is at that stage where stuff is easily forgotten, so you will need patience, as well as persistence!


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## milliesmom (Dec 15, 2012)

I am with Lily that I don't want to stir up the prong collar debate. I use one every so often for short sessions but if your dog is showing that she is afraid or that it is hurting her I would stop. I'm curious as to how they used it. I'm not an expert but there are def wrong ways to use tools. 

I feel like our dogs could be twins by the way they acted in class. My trainer has us take Millie to movie theaters when the movies end and everyone is getting out. Its just so exciting for her to see all those people but it helps her calm down because we are teaching her that people are not a huge deal. We also take her to pet smart and stand by the entrance.... She has to stay in a sit or else we walk away. It also helps her learn that other dogs are no big deal. We also tether her and walk up to her when new ppl come over and she only gets attention when she sits.

Hang in there! My poodle puppy has in some ways been the easiest pup I've ever had and sometimes the hardest depending on the situation.

My pet smart trainer had us take the leash and wrap it around Millie's middle and then through her collar loop so it hugged her when she pulled. She stopped pulling right away. Sorry if the explanation doesn't make sense... I can try and find pictures.


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## meredian (Nov 5, 2012)

Have you tried the Gentle Lead Collar? We've been using it to teach Wade to walk on the leash properly and it is excellent! He's not terribly fond of it when we first put it on, but once we're walking he doesn't notice at all and it keeps him heeling next to us.

As far as distractions, one thing that we've been working on with Wade is re-establishing reconnection with him when we are out doing things. If we are playing fetch, we make him stop multiple times, look at us, and sit. We also do this on walks.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Everything FJM said, and to elaborate on her post, there's a knack to effectively walking away from a distraction. Teach Jagger to change direction with you on cue, and be sure to initially teach it (and then regularly practice it) when Jagger is happy and calm. This way when you do implement it on a walk because something spooks or over-excites him, it is a behavior he's already familiar with and happy to do! Leash pressure generally increases a dog's arousal level, so changing direction without Jagger's cooperation may just wind him up even more, regardless of whether he gives in and turns to walk with you. The idea is to teach him that everything is okay and there's no need to get over-excited by giving him a little distance and time to calm himself. Also, if it's too exciting or scary for him, it may be best to just keep walking away and take a different route. If each time you try approaching again he gets just as riled, it's just a distraction that will need more work later on, once he's mastered calmness around some less exciting things. : ) Here's a video of one of my favorite trainers explaining this step-by-step. Also, at 6 months, he's gong to have bonkers moments and forget things he knew yesterday and that's perfectly normal! Good luck with him! : )

How to stop lunging and barking- Train 'Let's Go!'- clicker dog training shy reactive dogs - YouTube


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## JagsMom (Feb 6, 2013)

Huge thank-yous to each of you for taking your time to reply. I'd recently learned the stopping technique when he strains at the leash and am making some progress there. I've used the "look" command to (try) to get Jag's attention and he sometimes responds but not if there is something more interesting going on. If he doesn't turn to look at me should I position myself in front of his face so he has no choice? I have, admittedly, tried that but he often just peers around me to see what he wants anway. Should I physically turn his head toward me? Jagger's a smart boy, he knows his basic commands: sit, stay, down, and come, both on and off leash, always does them when we're alone, but decides for himself when to practice them with distractions around. After reading your reassurances though I believe I've been expecting more than Jagger can achieve at this age. Murphys, I've followed up on your suggestion by checking the AKC website for the STAR puppy program, emailed two of the evaluators in my area, and am hoping to hear back soon. I'm so glad to have joined the Forum and see already that you're all such a great support. I'm a widow and retired so Jag and I are muddling alone together. Yee haw for all of you!!!


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Sounds like Jagger just needs more practice with distractions! : ) The recommendation by Fjm for the Jean Donaldson book is some of the best advice on this thread! Just because Jagger pays attention or sits when asked in a certain environment doesn't mean that he "knows" it and is therefore choosing to "forget" in other environments. Responding to your cues is a skill he needs to practice and build, in all environments and at all levels of distraction. And it's your job to control the level of distraction that you expose him to when you expect him to work with you. If he's not listening to you in any situation, the best choice is to leave the situation. You are beyond his current skill level at that time. Simply walk away with him and practice the cue he's not responding to at a greater distance from the distraction. Have walks where this is your goal. Instead of the goal being getting from a to b, set out to have him be responsive at X distance from whatever distracts him. Putting yourself in front of him or forcing him to look at you by holding his head or any other method like that will only teach him that you act strangely (or even scary!) around whatever distraction he's focused on. He may even start subduing his reaction or even looking away from the distraction, but it's only because he doesn't want the negative outcome of your behavior. Not because he's learned that walking nicely is rewarding. If your goal is to have him confidently and calmly take these distractions in stride, it's much better to have him willingly participate in training and practicing his cues when the distraction is less overwhelming for him. : ) He's still a youngster. He's not ready to maintain composure around all the exciting or unnerving things in this world yet! He will be soon enough, though! And you'll miss his silly puppy brain. : P Let him take his time growing up.


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## JagsMom (Feb 6, 2013)

You know what PammiPoodle? You are so right and have just given me a quick swift kick in the rear! I adore Jagger's sweet, charming, clown-ish puppy personality. He melts my heart when he lays his head on my knees or tries to gradually creep his way onto my lap; first his head, then right front paw, left one, then chest, belly and galumph...he's thrown himself all the way up! I'll work at putting aside crazy perfectionist expectations and lighten up (I'm sure Jagger would thank you!) and am going to work at putting a lot of the tips I've gotten in to practice--they make so much sense.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

Your first trainer should have utilized the Premack principal so that he would have learned that he can do what he wanted (check out the other puppies) if he first focused enough to down a sit or down or whatever. It would have been his reward and instilled impulse control and focus. 

Your second trainer should have done this too instead of punishing the dog with a prong collar because they didn't know anything else better to do. Why punish the dog for the trainer's ineptitude?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I saw this wonderfully described (by a poster on here?) as similar to teaching a child to add and subtract simple sums, then expecting them to be able to manage differential calculus, because they "knew how to do maths"! I now always keep those words in the back of my mind - coming when called from across the garden when not much is happening is primary school level; leaving off chasing a rabbit to return to me is post-graduate level, and needs to be taught and rewarded accordingly!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

One thing to combine with working with distractions is using the "cue" wait. This really comes in handy helping the dog with his impulse control. I have him wait when I open a door before he is allowed to proceed, wait till he is released for food ect.


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## schpeckie (Jun 29, 2010)

Hi there, I had the same experience with my little Lacey. All she wanted to do is go socialize with other dogs, licking them & then creating such a fuss by whining being on the leash. It was almost embarrassing. But, I thought this class was for her and eventually she settled down after 3 beginner classes. It will take alot of time and patience and in the end Jag will learn too. Sadie on the other hand, is so determined to please me - she does everything that I command her and she just finished advanced level. I admit that I did laugh when Lacey pounced on a 60lb lab but he was very calm with her.
Sylvia & the Girls!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Yes, wait is really handy for many situations. For my dogs wait means don't do much of anything, don't wander off, etc. until I tell you otherwise. I don't consider it as formal as stay which means stay exactly as I left you (sit or down usually) until I return to you. I will call them to me from wait, but not from stay. If I have ordered a stay it means you must remain exactly here and I will come back to release you.


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## JagsMom (Feb 6, 2013)

We're working on incorporating a lot of the tips I received in response to my original "frustrated" post and definitely appreciate everyone's support! Jagger's becoming pretty good at accepting the "wait" command, especially when going out doors, and he's much better walking on loose leash since I've started stopping if starts to pull at the end of the leash. He looks at me and comes back, woohoo! I'm learning that I need to just continue to be consistent and to realize that it's going to take _time_ to reinforce positive behaviors. I read Leslie McDevitt's "Control Unleashed" last week and have just started Jean Donaldson's "Train Your Dog Like a Pro". AND next week Jagger and I will start working with a well respected trainer who is also an AKC certified evaluator for pet therapy programs, canine good citizen animals and others. I think I'm on the right track thanks in great part to all of you


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

It sounds like you have already made great progress. I am sure you will continue to see improvement especially with a qualified trainer to help fine tune your training.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

It is really nice to hear that you're feeling optimistic about what you've already accomplished and what you have to look forward to. Puppies are challenging, but patience and a positive attitude will pay off. You are doing great. Keep it up.


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