# cream to white?



## canil_quindim (Feb 22, 2009)

Hi there!

i have a question
i had a litter of standard poodles, mother is dark brown (with gen for brown, black, apricot and red) and father is black (with onlu whites and blacks)

She had 11 puppies, 3 whites/cream and 8 blacks.

two of the puppies are realy white, but there is one that i´m a little concern about his color

he was quite white all over his body at born, with a little cream on back and legs
here are some pics of him:
5 dias de vida - 5 days old | Flickr - Photo Sharing! this is him at one week

5 dias de vida - 5 days old | Flickr - Photo Sharing! anothe pic of him at one week

macho branco reservado | Flickr - Photo Sharing! this is him at two weeks

macho vendido | Flickr - Photo Sharing!at 3 weeks

san-2 vendido | Flickr - Photo Sharing! 4 weeks

San | Flickr - Photo Sharing! 4 weeks first shave

and this is how he is rigth now:
San | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

San | Flickr - Photo Sharing!bad picture this one, but on the above one you can see the white parts

he is going to be 4 months old next month, his legs are white, tail white, face white, chest white, on his topknot is a ligth cream on top, but i can see on the root is comming white, but on his back he is like a realy ligth cafe, like a dirty snow, on the under part of his ears is white and on the top of the ears is cream but on the root i can see white alreary

my question is, is he going to be all white, or he will be cream, or a white with a back line in cream??? or something else ehehe


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

No pics 

Sounds like cream. Some have different variations and could be almost anywhere on the body. As they mature it usually blends more..

Why are you concerned?


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## canil_quindim (Feb 22, 2009)

Olie said:


> No pics
> 
> Sounds like cream. Some have different variations and could be almost anywhere on the body. As they mature it usually blends more..
> 
> Why are you concerned?



i put the pictures now

thanks for the aswer!
my concern is because hiw owner has a lot of doubt if his is going to be quite white or will keep this strange color on his back


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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

Looks cream to me. Potsie, a cream, has a few patches of apricot on his back, which he developed at age 3. His ears are also a light apricot. I hear that this is common with creams.


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## sandooch (Jan 20, 2011)

Same with Gigi. She is a cream with apricot on one ear, a big apricot spot on the base of her back near her tail and apricot on the shaved part of her tail. I shaved her down once and she had all these little apricot freckles on her back. I was told that they'd go away as she got older. She used to have much more apricot on her ears. Now it's only on one ear and that is also fading. But I love it.


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## canil_quindim (Feb 22, 2009)

just went outside and took theses pics of him:
San - a set on Flickr

can he be considerer a parti cream/white??

or he will ligthen and be all white?


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

My red/apricot parti lightened so much that you couldn't tell and became creme.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

He does look like an apricot/cream parti to me in most of those photos.


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## cailinriley (Oct 30, 2011)

I'm not an expert, but I agree with Arreau. He looks like an apricot and cream parti in those photos. I have two blue and white parti boys, so I'm partial to multi-coloured spoos. I also have a cream girl, and I love that she still has a bit of apricot on her ears. Whatever colour(s) your boy is, he's beautiful!


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## canil_quindim (Feb 22, 2009)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> He does look like an apricot/cream parti to me in most of those photos.


it is posible to him be a parti if he has no partis in his pedigree for more than 15 generations?


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## roulette (Feb 18, 2011)

With his background (is there any parti in there, or not?) I would maybe venture to guess he could be darkening to apricot. If he is a parti, you could see distinct "patches" of color when he is wet, much more likely if he has parti ancestry. If no parti lines, I would suspect a tinting process as he ages...adult guard hairs could be red or apricot, with an undercoat of cream. I had a couple of pups from a blue bitch, born cream, blush out to a rich peachy tinge..they were gorgeous and the color unexpected- it seemed to start on the ear fringe and a wide feral stripe down their backs, that could only be seen when they were shaved down or wet.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

What does the pigement look like? Is it patchy silverish and pinkish?

I dought its parti.

Sometimes poodles can get darker.....If the person interested wants ALL white/cream this might not be the pup for them.


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## canil_quindim (Feb 22, 2009)

roulette said:


> With his background (is there any parti in there, or not?) I would maybe venture to guess he could be darkening to apricot. If he is a parti, you could see distinct "patches" of color when he is wet, much more likely if he has parti ancestry. If no parti lines, I would suspect a tinting process as he ages...adult guard hairs could be red or apricot, with an undercoat of cream. I had a couple of pups from a blue bitch, born cream, blush out to a rich peachy tinge..they were gorgeous and the color unexpected- it seemed to start on the ear fringe and a wide feral stripe down their backs, that could only be seen when they were shaved down or wet.


no partis in here, and no partis in his pedigree for all generations i can get to, his dad (black) is son of a Huffish dog (black) and a del zarzoso female (white), his mom is dark brown, her dad is black and mom is brown, with reds and apricots on the pedigree.

he is geting ligther, on the root of his legs, topknot , ears and some parts of his back is already white, his tail, chest, tummy, part of his legs, face and paws are white, he has no paches on his body skin of different colors, his skin is all pink in color, with face a little grey when i do with a #40 blade (quite nice pigment)


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## canil_quindim (Feb 22, 2009)

Olie said:


> What does the pigement look like? Is it patchy silverish and pinkish?
> 
> I dought its parti.
> 
> Sometimes poodles can get darker.....If the person interested wants ALL white/cream this might not be the pup for them.


his skin is pink, but where i have shaved qith a #40 blade, his skin get darker (silver), like on face, tail and feet´s, just like in a white would do


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

My guess is he'll fade to a light cream with darker spots on his ears, probably like my Vienna. She looks white until she's next to an actual white poodle, then she looks very obviously cream.

Though I have to say, with mom being a brown I'm seriously surprised his pigment is so black!


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## canil_quindim (Feb 22, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> My guess is he'll fade to a light cream with darker spots on his ears, probably like my Vienna. She looks white until she's next to an actual white poodle, then she looks very obviously cream.
> 
> Though I have to say, with mom being a brown I'm seriously surprised his pigment is so black!


i think that too, i beleave he will look white, but is a very very ligth cream, he has realy dark nose and skin too, his skin color at his tummy, face, tail and feets is very silver in color, under his feets is also all black, and with black nails! He has black pigments from day two after birth!


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I have a cream. He has very apricot markings when shaved. I doubt mine will "turn white." Even after I bathe him, people ask me if he's dirty or if that is his color, haha. Mine does not have black nails, they are brown in color. He had black nails as a pup though. I think his nose is dark, but haven't paid attention to it in the sun. Here's some pics of him through the ages. You can see his apricot markings: (at ~16 weeks, 6 months, 7 months, 1 year old)

I wonder what your pup would look like shaved. From the photos, the markings don't look too dark or specific on his body, so maybe he will lighten. Mine has apricot markings down his back (to tail), ears, and back of his legs above the hock. Next to a true white, you can tell he is definitely not white!


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## vtomblin (Jul 18, 2010)

He looks like a dark cream. Doesn't look like a parti to me. His colouring is in a pattern that many dogs have, think husky. They are light with dark ears, dark down the neck, back and hocks. Light areas on the shoulders etc. The darker areas are just where the thicker darker hair grows. My bet is he will lighten up quite a bit then after coat change he'll darken a bit again. But he will probably end up lighter than he is now. Most poodles that have any colour will be a bit darker on their ears, down the back and hocks. My cream girl went snow white and is going through coat change #2 (lucky me) and has some darker cream thick hairs coming in down her neck and back. To most she still looks white.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

vtomblin said:


> My cream girl went snow white and is going through coat change #2 (lucky me) and has some darker cream thick hairs coming in down her neck and back. To most she still looks white.


Um, what do you mean Coat Change #2?! :afraid:

I'm already trying to make it to age 2 hoping this crap will be gone for good!!


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## vtomblin (Jul 18, 2010)

Well, we went through coat change at a year for four months. She has quite a cottony coat then it went to slightly denser hair. Then, in the new year her neck hair starts breaking off where the fluff meets this newest wiry hair. Which almost made me cry. Then the matting started again. At a show I was asking WTH to a breeder and she was all 'oh that's just a second coat change, some dogs do that. lucky you'. Aaaaak! Couldn't figure why I was losing hair with everything I do. But looking at a hair you can see it is fine and pretty straight then gets thick and curly all of a sudden. Thats where it breaks. The good news is it was worth it. Her new coat is like my boy's and is brillo pad hair. I'm growing specials coat now. To the powers that be there better not be a # 3!!!! Still working on #2!!! But the funny thing is her snow white coat is really creamy coming in. On her rosettes you can see the dark wire hairs. In certain light I can see the milky cream colour deep in her coat. and her ears of course!


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

vtomblin said:


> Well, we went through coat change at a year for four months. She has quite a cottony coat then it went to slightly denser hair. Then, in the new year her neck hair starts breaking off where the fluff meets this newest wiry hair. Which almost made me cry. Then the matting started again. At a show I was asking WTH to a breeder and she was all 'oh that's just a second coat change, some dogs do that. lucky you'. Aaaaak! Couldn't figure why I was losing hair with everything I do. But looking at a hair you can see it is fine and pretty straight then gets thick and curly all of a sudden. Thats where it breaks. The good news is it was worth it. Her new coat is like my boy's and is brillo pad hair. I'm growing specials coat now. To the powers that be there better not be a # 3!!!! Still working on #2!!! But the funny thing is her snow white coat is really creamy coming in. On her rosettes you can see the dark wire hairs. In certain light I can see the milky cream colour deep in her coat. and her ears of course!


Very interesting! If there is such a thing as Coat Change #3 - mine's gonna be shaved down!!!


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## canil_quindim (Feb 22, 2009)

tokipoke said:


> I have a cream. He has very apricot markings when shaved. I doubt mine will "turn white." Even after I bathe him, people ask me if he's dirty or if that is his color, haha. Mine does not have black nails, they are brown in color. He had black nails as a pup though. I think his nose is dark, but haven't paid attention to it in the sun. Here's some pics of him through the ages. You can see his apricot markings: (at ~16 weeks, 6 months, 7 months, 1 year old)
> 
> I wonder what your pup would look like shaved. From the photos, the markings don't look too dark or specific on his body, so maybe he will lighten. Mine has apricot markings down his back (to tail), ears, and back of his legs above the hock. Next to a true white, you can tell he is definitely not white!


pretty guy you have there! he does look white on your profile picture, with cream ears, he is lovely! it look´s like my puppy is ligther than yours, he is shaved with a #4F blade on his body on the pictures
that is so complicated, these creams! i have had apricot puppies, that have turn almost white are adulthood!
my hopes are that this little guy will be very very ligth, almost white hehehe, his two sisters are ice white in color! and the other littermattes are inch black!


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## canil_quindim (Feb 22, 2009)

vtomblin said:


> Well, we went through coat change at a year for four months. She has quite a cottony coat then it went to slightly denser hair. Then, in the new year her neck hair starts breaking off where the fluff meets this newest wiry hair. Which almost made me cry. Then the matting started again. At a show I was asking WTH to a breeder and she was all 'oh that's just a second coat change, some dogs do that. lucky you'. Aaaaak! Couldn't figure why I was losing hair with everything I do. But looking at a hair you can see it is fine and pretty straight then gets thick and curly all of a sudden. Thats where it breaks. The good news is it was worth it. Her new coat is like my boy's and is brillo pad hair. I'm growing specials coat now. To the powers that be there better not be a # 3!!!! Still working on #2!!! But the funny thing is her snow white coat is really creamy coming in. On her rosettes you can see the dark wire hairs. In certain light I can see the milky cream colour deep in her coat. and her ears of course!



all my poodles do two coat changes, one starting at 9-10 months to 15 months old and the last one (when it comes that realy coarse coat) start at 2 years to 2,5 years


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