# Should Frosty receive a 4th DHPP vaccine?



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

His schedule has gone like this:

-vaccinated by breeder's vet at 7 weeks old
-vaccinated at my vet at 10 1/2 weeks old (with oral bordetella)
-vaccinated at my vet at 14 weeks old (with rabies, unauthorized :angry

Maizie was done at 8 wks, 12 wks, 16 wks, with rabies and bordetella at 5 months. This is the schedule I prefer. But how do I solve this for Frosty? Thank you guys for the help.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Personally, I would do a titer at 18 weeks (not sooner) and decide from there.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Great idea, CM--thank you! The vets in this town have probably never heard of titer testing, I swear. But I will do that.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Are you prepared to just tell them what to do? Ha. Dr. Schultz does titer testing for $25. You'll need to have a tech pull blood as directed (and pay the vet for that), and then mail (via regular mail, pay your vet the postage or you can do it yourself) the blood, application and $25 check to Schultz at U of Wisc.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Thank you, CM


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

If you send me a PM with your email address, I can forward you the info!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

We do nine weeks, 13 weeks and 18 weeks then titer at a year. In your case I would titer as CM suggested before considering a 4th shot.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Arreau, if his titer is positive, would you also titer at 1 year? I'm assuming so.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I think that's a great idea for Frosty to titer. Good luck. Wow! I would be livid about that unauthorized rabies shot!


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I think that's a great idea for Frosty to titer. Good luck. Wow! I would be livid about that unauthorized rabies shot!


I am extremely livid. Like I don't even know how to deal. He just turned 14 weeks old today. All of my childhood dogs got the rabies vaccine at 6 months. CA law is 4 months, but my vets in non-hick cities would let me do it later. Why did they do this to my little baby at 3 months?? Oh, they mentioned "convenience" for me. Ha! The freaking office is 10 minutes away. It's convenience for them in every way.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I am so sorry Zooeysmom. Maybe you should call a lawyer and get a free consultation. These bold-as-brass idiots shouldn't be allowed to get away with doing stuff like this. I am holding you and little Frosty in my heart with love and concern. But I am also very hopeful that he'll be okay. Don't give him another rabies shot regardless of the stupid laws. He'll be immune for life. (((hugs)))


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I am so sorry Zooeysmom. Maybe you should call a lawyer and get a free consultation. These bold-as-brass idiots shouldn't be allowed to get away with doing stuff like this. I am holding you and little Frosty in my heart with love and concern. But I am also very hopeful that he'll be okay. Don't give him another rabies shot regardless of the stupid laws. He'll be immune for life. (((hugs)))


The only issue is my home preschool--licensing requires the dogs to be current on rabies. But maybe they only check when they do the initial inspection, in which case all my dogs will be covered.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Oh that's a problem. I wonder if there's a group to join that is trying to change the law so it coincides with science. Maybe you can change professions when the next one is due in 3 years. Or get some fake certificate made. :act-up: It's just disgusting how some agency has to tell us what to do at every turn. These vaccines should last for a minimum of 7 years, probably longer. I don't think our antibodies forget that easily.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Yeah...I always like to keep mine legal


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

zooeysmom said:


> Arreau, if his titer is positive, would you also titer at 1 year? I'm assuming so.




Yes I would. I like Jean Dodds' test that you can order through her company Hemopet. It gives you levels of antibodies and a timeframe to re-titer or re-vaccinate if necessary.


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

I would titer at 18 weeks. I did 8 and 14 weeks for my last puppy and he titered fine at 6 months. I posted the links to $25 titers from Dr. Schultz on another thread here.


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## SammyG (Oct 12, 2016)

Having the vet pushed me to do rabies at 14 weeks and not allowing any future appointments (including emergencies) unless I comply was exactly the reason this vet no longer has me as a client. If they did unauthorized shot for my puppy the legal action would be the least of their problems 

The new vet agrees with me regarding the schedule though she mentioned that a lot of people do get rabies vaccine at around 3 months for convenience and law compliance. She also mentioned that there is a study that proves rabies vaccine at 3-4 months does not actually develop antibodies, and only the next vaccine after 1 year does the trick. But legally we have to have it even though law and science is not exactly on the same page.


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

SammyG said:


> The new vet agrees with me regarding the schedule though she mentioned that a lot of people do get rabies vaccine at around 3 months for convenience and law compliance. She also mentioned that there is a study that proves rabies vaccine at 3-4 months does not actually develop antibodies, and only the next vaccine after 1 year does the trick. But legally we have to have it even though law and science is not exactly on the same page.


That's odd. It was my understanding from the AAHA vaccine guidelines that the rabies vaccine stimulates a very strong immune reaction.


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## Lori G (Sep 19, 2014)

Zooeysmom, this topic is very timely for our own situation. Our puppy will arrive at 10 weeks of age, having had one DDHP vac at around 6-7 weeks, and another shortly before coming to us. So she will have had two DDHP vaccinations by 10 weeks of age. 

Today I took our cat to a new vet whom I was/am hoping to use for our puppy vet also. So, after the cat exam, I opened conversation with him about the pup, specifically about vaccinations. He said the bottom line is that she needs to have two distemper/Pavo shots after 12 weeks of age. He does agree that basically the first vac is null and useless. So at this point I think I will also be "forced" to give the fourth DDHP vac, simply because she gives that first shot so early.

So, I feel your concern. And I'm also really sorry to hear about the rabies vac. "May the odds be ever in your favor!" ?


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

Lori G said:


> He said the bottom line is that she needs to have two distemper/Pavo shots after 12 weeks of age. He does agree that basically the first vac is null and useless. So at this point I think I will also be "forced" to give the fourth DDHP vac, simply because she gives that first shot so early.


Whether or not she needs a fourth shot really depends on when she gets the third shot as well as other factors. My pup (now two) got two parvo/distemper shots at 9 and 14 weeks, and titered well at 6 months. 

This document from Drs Foster and Smith does a great job of explaining how maternal immunity works, and why and when you need to vaccinate a puppy several times. 

Colostrum and Passive Immunity in Dogs


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Thank you, Lori. If I were you, I would insist that the vet titer her instead of giving the 4th vacc.


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## Lori G (Sep 19, 2014)

Yes, thanks for the suggestion. I will discuss that with the vet when we go for our well puppy check up.


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## aasteapots (Oct 6, 2013)

Leia got Distemper and Parvo at 11 weeks and will not receive another shot until she is 17 weeks of just Distemper and Parvo. She will then get her one and only rabies shot at 12 months. So my feeling is no he shouldn't but that is really up to you.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Just wanted to update that tomorrow is titer day. I'll let you know the results. I assume it takes at least a week to get them back from the lab. Pretty sure he'll be positive, but it'll be good to know for sure.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

If anyone is interested, his titers are positive with a VERY GOOD level for parvo and distemper :adore:. Hemopet is freaking awesome--I mailed the blood on Tuesday and they received it and tested it today and emailed me the results this evening. Thank you to all who helped with this situation.


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## sidewinder (Feb 3, 2016)

Life has been happening and I consequently missed this entire string! I'm really glad you got such good advice and decided to titer instead on doing a 4th vac. My vet wanted to do a 4th vac for Mackey, it turns out that the reason was a minor epidemic of parvo locally. So...I wondered why don't they just do an extra parvo instead of an extra 4-way?? I guess they just don't keep the parvo only vaccine on hand. I turned it down anyway, and plan a titer. At least my vet will do that. Nice to know about other options, though.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Excellent news!


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

sidewinder said:


> Life has been happening and I consequently missed this entire string! I'm really glad you got such good advice and decided to titer instead on doing a 4th vac. My vet wanted to do a 4th vac for Mackey, it turns out that the reason was a minor epidemic of parvo locally. So...I wondered why don't they just do an extra parvo instead of an extra 4-way?? I guess they just don't keep the parvo only vaccine on hand. I turned it down anyway, and plan a titer. At least my vet will do that. Nice to know about other options, though.


If he received his vaccs at 8-12-16 weeks, I personally wouldn't even bother with a titer. But if you do, I would go through Hemolife or Dr. Shultz, as they are less expensive than most vets' labs.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Yay! for the good titer!


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## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

zooeysmom said:


> If he received his vaccs at 8-12-16 weeks, I personally wouldn't even bother with a titer. But if you do, I would go through Hemolife or Dr. Shultz, as they are less expensive than most vets' labs.


May I ask what you paid?


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

oshagcj914 said:


> May I ask what you paid?


$52 (plus the exam and blood draw and shipping


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Ha! Just received a call from the vet asking if I wanted to schedule Frosty's 4th DHPP vacc. I left a message back for the vet to call me. I'll be encouraging her to use titers next time they think a dog needs a 4th vacc. Worth a try to help some other dogs, I think.


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## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

zooeysmom said:


> $52 (plus the exam and blood draw and shipping


Wow, good deal! I'm pretty sure I paid over $300 for titers for 2 Danes. Came with a free lecture though :/


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## Kanoodle (Dec 10, 2016)

Get a new vet...

If the vet thought that 14 weeks is ok for rabies, than there is no room for them to say Frosty needs another Distemper.

Honestly it's probably fine, but I would suggest titers at around 24 weeks, just to be sure, since you have access to it and it's worth the money to be sure. I have seen so many unvaccinated and loved pets die from this stuff, its scary. Parvo especially, I have known two dogs die from parvo that were vaccinated as puppies - which always make me think they got their puppy series but not re-vaccinated once their immune system had matured. 

Actually I wasn't aware of the affordable titer test so I always did my dogs (and cats) last vaccine at 1 year. I never vaccinate past 1 year unless I have to for doggy daycare etc... I will probably start titering at 1 year instead! I also always vaccinate against diseases that kill, I would rather deal with a vaccine reaction than mourn my pet. But I do not vaccinate against things that don't kill, unless I have to for some reason.

Most vets don't carry individual vaccines, but some do and some will order them in for you. It doesn't hurt to ask. 

Also, I have never been to a vet or worked for a vet that vaccinated against a client's will or refused service if they were not vaccinating! That is unheard of here, and as a LVT I have dealt with a lot of vets and a lot of opinions! I can't imagine the arrogance that takes. I showed this to a couple vet friends and they were shocked as well. I guess I just happen to know vets that work with clients to do what is best for them, and not make assumptions...


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## Kanoodle (Dec 10, 2016)

Vaccinating puppies is kind of useless but kind of not... No it isn't going to last until they are adults. But what it is doing is providing temporary immunity for several weeks until the dog is mature enough that the vaccines effect is permanent. This is why it was SUPPOSED to be that puppies are vaccinated young, every few weeks, for deadly diseases, receiving their last one when they are older and it will "stick." Rabies, in my area at least, is very rare in pets so I don't mind waiting until 6 months. Parvo and distemper - I will vaccinate every 3 weeks until 16 weeks without fail, so I KNOW they are covered until they can make their own memory B & T-cells.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Appreciate your input, Kanoodle. You seem very educated on the topic.


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