# New food question (I know, I know)...



## RedPoodleFamily (Aug 22, 2010)

I have been searching for a thread about food on here all morning and I'm just not finding what I'm looking for; so my apologies for starting another thread about dog food.

We are picking up Max (our standard poodle puppy) this weekend to bring him home. He is currently eating Blue Buffalo puppy food. I have been googling and reading reviews on different foods, but I wanted some input from people! 

My biggest question is are there any foods out there that are still good, but maybe just a little less expensive? I want to give him good food but I also don't wanna break the bank. 

Thanks!


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## taxtell (Sep 17, 2009)

I'm always up on my soap box about how much I LOVE raw, but I won't start up on it unless you ask. 

That said, when I did feed kibble, I had better luck with grain free formulas.

Acana is a very good food.
Champion Petfoods | ACANA

Specifically this:
Champion Petfoods | ACANA | Products - Puppy Small Breed

The link says small breed puppy, but it is really for the LARGE breed puppy.

Weird!


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

acana and orijen are good as with EVO... 

That said keep in mind GOOD quality food has less fillers (well practically none) so your feeding LESS cups/day then say on Eukanuba. 
So price works out about the same in the end/month


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

neVar said:


> acana and orijen are good as with EVO...
> 
> That said keep in mind GOOD quality food has less fillers (well practically none) so your feeding LESS cups/day then say on Eukanuba.
> So price works out about the same in the end/month


EXACTLY - The cheap brands packed full of crap and go through the dog and your servings are more than say BB or better quality foods. So money wise, it really does even itself out in the long run. 

I have heard that Kirklands at Costco is similar ingredients as BB - and it's cheaper. I do not know this or effects but have seen it recommended many times.


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

My sister used to feed Kirkland. If I had to economize, that's probably how I would do it. But her vet convinced her that she got what she paid for, and she now feeds something else (Wellness, I believe). 

Ditto the other posters' comments to look at the feeding directions/quantities when you are doing the math. I fed my first poodle two cups of Eukanuba twice a day. Dexter gets less than a cup of Evo plus some mix-ins twice a day. 

If you really can't afford a premium food in the long run, I would at least try to keep your pup on a high grade food while he is a puppy.


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

We love Acana at my house, although I'm not sure how much cheaper it is than Blue Buffalo. A 5 lb bag costs $20 where I live.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Blue Buffalo is a decent food if you want to keep him on that. 

I feed my standard poodle puppy Innova Large Breed Puppy. Actually, she eats Nature's Variety Raw Medallions for breakfast and Innova LB Puppy for dinner.

Other great foods: Orijen, Acana, Solid Gold, Fromm, Nature's Variety. These foods (except Solid Gold) will only be available at independent stores. Chains and supermarkets will not carry these high quality foods.

Solid Gold, Wellness and Natural Balance are good foods available at Petco. Wellness is also available at Petsmart. 

I would recommend that you only feed your puppy either _large breed_ puppy food or regular adult food to slow growth. 

Also, look for formulas without citric acid if possible because it is thought to possibly contribute to bloat.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

ChocolateMIllie:

I am not sure if it was you who knew so much about Calcium versus Phosphorous ratio in dog food so please let me know.

I remember a gal here who knew alot about the above and I would like her opinion or yours if it was you... I just dont remember the thread anymore.

I feed Fromm as you know.

I am looking at switching only ONE of my dogs onto Fromm Surf & Turf because he will be on a show circuit and my handler prefers them chunkier than I would and she feels my boy should gain a bit of weight.

He is now 9 mos. old a good eater, eats 4 cups a day of Fromm Salm A La Veggies and my handler feels it is not putting weight on him as SHE would like, (he looks and feels fine to me), she wants them fuller though.

MY question therefore is:

The Fromm Surf and Turf is Grain free. Contains 30% protein (I am comfortable with this amount but not higher) and has 19% fat which is good.

*It contains 1.0% Calcium and 0.9% Phosphorous.*

*IS THIS a proper ration to give to a puppy of his age (9 mos.)*

Also would like to mention he is a VERY BIG boy, he is very tall 25.5 at shoulder and quite substantial for his age (size wise)

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks !


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## Penjilum-Poodles (Apr 17, 2010)

Congrats on your new puppy! 

We feed Acana Wild Prairie (a no grain food) for our crew. We also feed raw, which they LOVE.  We are happy, our crew is happy!!!

We'd love to see pics of your boy when you get him!


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## Littleknitwit (Jul 19, 2010)

I feed "Taste of the Wild"... I have found it to be the most affordable high quality food...and it is grain free. It costs about 42.99 for a 30lb bag. I actually found it for 37.99 for a 30 lb bag at a store near me.

Also Canidae you can get a 44 lb bag for 44.00. Not sure if that is great or not, but it got a 5 star rating on that dogfoodanalysis.com... TOTW got a 6.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Dog owners in the U.S. are very fortunate to be able to get premium quality food SO CHEAP. I would definitely not bother to complain over a $44.00 bag of 30 pounds.

I pay for a bag of Fromm Salmon A La Veggies $74.00 plus 15% tax.

for a bag of Acana 64.95 Plus tax 

For a bag of Fromm Surf and Turf $85.00 plus tax

I feed now 5 dogs and have 7 puppies which will consume an average of 3-5 cups per day.. 

I hate to tell you what this costs me.. LOL but they are my babies and they get the best.

I feed both Acana Pacifica (no grain) my dogs are allergic to poultry and also Fromm 4 star Salmon A La Veggies. 

My lactating female I now am putting on a $90.00 bag of Fromm Surf & Turf.

I WISH I had your U.S. prices here in Canada. and Ontario is more expensive than in our city.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

whitepoodles said:


> ChocolateMIllie:
> 
> I am not sure if it was you who knew so much about Calcium versus Phosphorous ratio in dog food so please let me know.
> 
> ...


Yep, that was me! I am not an expert, and to be honest I am still trying to learn more about this, but from what I have read and heard those are good levels! Innova LB Puppy is .9 calcium and .72 phosphorus, which is the lowest I have seen and Surf & Turf is not too far off from that!!  I think the most important thing is that you want Calcium below 1.5%, if possible. I just wouldn't want to feed a puppy spoo a food that had like 1.9 -2+% Calcium. I think those really high ranges are where you risk the possibility of growing too fast. That is why I am waiting to feed Millie Instinct - it has, depending on formula, 1.9-2.5% calcium!!!!

I am very interested in this whole topic! (Probably because I _almost_ went to school to become a dietician..). I really would like to find a good holistic veterinarian or someone who knows a lot about dog nutrition!


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

CHocmillie:

Thanks ok, another question:

IF I were to switch my 9 mos. old puppy to grain free Acana (he is now eating Fromm Salm. Veggies which contains grain).
If I switch to Acana, 
the Acana has 33% protein
15% fat
*1.4% Calcium *
1.1% phosphorous.

WOULD YOU recommend this food for a 9 months old puppy which is still growing but NOT for long as stand. poodles stop growing but only start filling ouT by age 9-10 mos.

Please let me know.

You also mention that you will be feeding your Millie 1.9-2.5% calcium. Then I thought you frowned upon high calcium levels.. so I am confused by your statement re: high calcium and you waiting to feed your girl this amount???

Or I could be mistaken, is it because she will no longer be a growing puppy at the time you will be switching her to the high calcium levels? 

Please clarify.
Thanks


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

whitepoodles said:


> CHocmillie:
> 
> Thanks ok, another question:
> 
> ...


Yes, I am waiting until she is done growing (or at least very close to done) until I feed her the Instinct Kibble with 1.9-2.5% protein. (Well, sometimes I give her a handful because its what Henry eats and she LOVES it, but that's not enough to have an effect, I don't think.)

I have read some studies that say you should avoid excess levels of calcium until 80% of growth. At 9 months you are probably done with the vast majority and I would think 1.4% calcium is fine! 

See, this is where I get confused. Orijen has a Large Breed puppy food that says it has balanced calcium and phos. levels to slow growth, and they have 
1.7% calcium. Because Orijen is such a reputable company, that makes me think maybe 1.7 isn't too high. But I think that is the limit. I *DO* think that 1.9 or above is too high.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

CHocmillie:

Both Acana and Orijen are made by the same company Champion Pet foods.
They have a breeder's program to which I have signed today to get it cheaper meaning when you buy 6 bags anywhere you get 1 for free, so if you purchase 12 you get 14 bags for the price of 12 only which is not bad.

Fromm requires you to purchase 12 bags to be able to get 1 for free 

Ok now that you have explained that I am SAFE with feeding my 9-10 mos. old pup Acana with a ratio of 1.4% protein, my next question is:
You see I am drilling you.. LOLOL

Do you believe that GRAIN FREE dog food is better for (any) dog even one that is not grain sensitive.

Would you feed a dog that can tollerate grain in dog food a grain free food and do you think it will have any negative impact on him on the long run

My dogs are always OFA Good (Hips) and both Lola and Cole (who now have a litter) are both Hips OFA Excellent and I would like to continue my tradition of producing good to excellent hips..

Question would LACK OF GRAIN affect my dogs' health, hip status or anything in your opinion

You obviously know more than I know about food and I admit I do NOT know everything as some here may think I do (I dont) that is why I am interested in finding out from you what your opinion on this topic is .

Thanks


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## CelticKitti (Jul 1, 2010)

whitepoodles said:


> Dog owners in the U.S. are very fortunate to be able to get premium quality food SO CHEAP. I would definitely not bother to complain over a $44.00 bag of 30 pounds....I WISH I had your U.S. prices here in Canada. and Ontario is more expensive than in our city.


I feed a Canadian food... I wish I had YOUR prices down here!! While $55 for a 25lb bag isn't outragous, I wish it was less! But Kodi had been doing very well on the GO! Natural Grain Free Endurance so it's worth every penny!!

Oh and Petcurean Pet food has a discount program too... Avaliable only in Canada!


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

[*QUOTE=CelticKitti;120380]I feed a Canadian food... I wish I had YOUR prices down here!! While $55 for a 25lb bag isn't outragous, I wish it was less! But Kodi had been doing very well on the GO! Natural Grain Free Endurance so it's worth every penny!!

Oh and Petcurean Pet food has a discount program too... Avaliable only in Canada![/QUOTE]*

Celtikiti:

No wonder then, our Can. made foods are as expensive in the U.S. as the U.S. made ones are here in Cda. That's logical.

I am just wondering why would you feed a Cda. made food when there are so many wonderful foods made by U.S> companies which you can find as good a quality and more reasonably priced? and what is the Cda. food you feed your dogs?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

whitepoodles said:


> CHocmillie:
> 
> Both Acana and Orijen are made by the same company Champion Pet foods.
> They have a breeder's program to which I have signed today to get it cheaper meaning when you buy 6 bags anywhere you get 1 for free, so if you purchase 12 you get 14 bags for the price of 12 only which is not bad.
> ...


Oh, Whitepoodles, I really know less about kibble than your realize, LOL! I just have focused a lot of time looking into the calcium/phosphorus thing. For some reason it grabbed my attention and I have looked into it. 

I honestly have been wondering the same thing about grain free vs. grains included! Theoretically, it does make sense that grain-free is superior to grains included b/c it more closely mimics what dogs are meant to eat. However, if your dog tolerates grains just fine I personally don't think it is harmful to feed a high quality, natural food with grains.

I doubt I know any more than you about grain free - but I am part of an online dog food forum and the best I can do is tell you other peoples' opinions! This is also the opinion of the holistic veterinarian Henry has been to once. Many believe: Raw meat or home cooked is the best you can feed your dog. This is not always practical, and the next best is a high quality grain free food. Then, next in line would be high quality food with grains. And then of course there are the lower quality foods.

But personally, even though many people are adamant that grain free is the best, I can't help but think that if your dog does well on food with grains, it won't be harmful! 

I would like to learn more! I need to become best friends with a dog nutritionist and best friends with a breeder (to watch a litter be whelped) and then I will be so enlighened


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

I would like to learn more! I need to become best friends with a dog nutritionist and best *friends with a breeder (to watch a litter be whelped) and then I will be so enlighened [/QUOTE]*
Chocmillie:

You know more than you think.. Yes I do know my dog food however never really paid attention to the calc. and phosophorous ratios.. I just only paid attention to the protein and fat.. 

So I will feed them Acana it is a good food , costs less is grain free, and my dogs do tollerate grain so since I already cook legumes, brown rice, minced beef and grund fresh veggies and put 3 TBSP fulls twice a day into their food they do in a way get their grains, just not from the kibble but my homecooked food. So I am basically doing ok.

I will make sure to have my friend videotape the entire whelping process of my 2011 litter and will send you the video.. it will be like you were here.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

You are doing BEYOND okay! I want to start cooking some extras for my dogs too!

Oh I would love it if you would send me a videotape of the next whelping!!!!!


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## CelticKitti (Jul 1, 2010)

whitepoodles said:


> Celtikiti:
> 
> No wonder then, our Can. made foods are as expensive in the U.S. as the U.S. made ones are here in Cda. That's logical.
> 
> I am just wondering why would you feed a Cda. made food when there are so many wonderful foods made by U.S> companies which you can find as good a quality and more reasonably priced? and what is the Cda. food you feed your dogs?


I feed him Go! Naturals Grain Free Endurance. Go Natural Grain Free Dog Food 
When I was looking for a new dog food for Kodi I needed a few specifics:

1. A higher calorie content. Was looking for around 450Kcal/cup- he's little and won't eat more than 1 cup a day (1/2 twice daily) but is very active with a high metabolism
2. Grain Free
3. Very high quality
4. He would EAT IT!! (Picky boy!!)

I had it narrowed down to a few. Based on ingredients, availability, glucosamine content, price, user reviews and if he would eat it I ended with Go! He did well on EVO for about a year but stopped eating it, and I don't think he needs the 500+Kcal/cup anymore. I also didn't want to start on a food that was recently bought out by a larger company for fear the formulation/quality would change.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

*I also didn't want to start on a food that was recently bought out by a larger company for fear the formulation/quality would change.[/QUOTE]*
Celtikiti:

That is what concerned me most.. I stopped buying Wellness after they were bought out. I heard that the quality control has dropped significantly and I stopped Wellness and also Innova, I no longer cared for either. But wellness is what worried me most.

Acana and especially FROMM are foods I trust. Wellness has changed their ingredients once my dogs got so sick on it so I switched completely and dumped wellness food. The quality control is no longer what it used to be with this food.... so I moved on.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

Fromm is kinda ???? 
I am feeding TOW but also evangers chicken and rice plus we do modified raw...


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

whitepoodles said:


> *I also didn't want to start on a food that was recently bought out by a larger company for fear the formulation/quality would change.*



Celtikiti:

That is what concerned me most.. I stopped buying Wellness after they were bought out. I heard that the quality control has dropped significantly and I stopped Wellness and also Innova, I no longer cared for either. But wellness is what worried me most.

Acana and especially FROMM are foods I trust. Wellness has changed their ingredients once my dogs got so sick on it so I switched completely and dumped wellness food. The quality control is no longer what it used to be with this food.... so I moved on.[/QUOTE]

that is what happened to Eagle once they sold out it was over.. what a mess... I fed that food for 15 years then poof !


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

bigredpoodle;120420[B said:


> ]*Fromm is kinda ????* [/B]
> I am feeding TOW but also evangers chicken and rice plus we do modified raw...



I DONT THINK SO !!!

Fromm is an AMAZING food.

I do blood panel kidney and liver functions on my dogs including SMAC and WBC etc. etc.. on a yearly basis and I can tell you for a fact that what you put into your dogs you get out of them and my dogs are a picture of health and have stamina .

Not to mention I have very long lived dogs 14-16 years, and have never had a Fair hip, only Good, including recently two excellents (Cole and Lola)

Must be then the "Fromm Is Kinda???" food 

And.. oh yes, I do give raw, I do make my dogs Satin Balls and also give them cooked legumes, raw beef and ground veggies into their food.
The Satin ball they get as a treat before bedtime (1/4 pound each satin ball)

I think they are doing well with FROMM and the extras.. I am very happy.


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## aprhj (Jun 16, 2009)

I feed Poppy Taste of the Wild, get it from our local Tractor Supply, around $40-$45 for a 30 lb bag. The bag lasts around a month, and I feed her about 2.5-3 cups a day, based on the bag recommendation. Its grain free and although she had not show grain allergy signs, I just figured since it seems common in Standards, I would start that way. In addition to feeding less because of not having fillers, she also has much less poop and it decomposes pretty rapidly. I generally only pick-up the back yard once per month and don't get a ton then. She also gets some plain yougurt on her food in the morning, good for her digestive system.


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## RedPoodleFamily (Aug 22, 2010)

Thanks for all the food info. There is a lot more than I would've ever imagined. I'm starting to feel a little overwhelmed. 
There was some talk about feeding large breed or adult food to slow their growth. At the risk of sounding stupid, why would you want to slow their growth?


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

It makes me so sad that so many great companies sold out to the large corporations. First Wellness, then Eagle Holistic Selects and now Innova/Evo.


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## RedPoodleFamily (Aug 22, 2010)

Another stupid question but, how much do I feed him? I know the bag has recommendations, but how will I know if that's enough or too much? 
Do I just feed him in the morning and evening, like breakfast and dinner? I know it sounds like I've never had a pet before, but I promise I have. But until we decided to get this puppy, I hadn't ever done any research into all these things. With the cat, we just put food and water in his dish, he's pretty independent. We've never had such a young puppy before so we just want to make sure we start the right way and stay that way.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

RedPoodleFamily said:


> Thanks for all the food info. There is a lot more than I would've ever imagined. I'm starting to feel a little overwhelmed.
> There was some talk about feeding large breed or adult food to slow their growth. At the risk of sounding stupid, why would you want to slow their growth?


They can develop a very painful condition called Panosteitis if they grow too quickly. You want to feed them a diet that will encourage slow and steady growth without any rapid spurts. 

It used to be believed that you should feed supplemental calcium to help puppies grow more quickly, but is now understood that this is actually harmful. That is why it is important to feed a food without excessive calcium. Adult foods and also large breed puppy foods generally have better levels of calcium than Puppy food.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Poodle Lover said:


> It makes me so sad that so many great companies sold out to the large corporations. First Wellness, then Eagle Holistic Selects and now Innova/Evo.



Poodleluver:

This is the main reason why I had stopped feeding (years ago) Wellness and Innova. I used to feed both periodically but not after they have been turned over .

Fromm is a family based business and they will never change this. This is the reason why I believe that quality control is better with Fromm than with the other aforementioned brands.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

Just wanted to add in my two cents worth 

I currently feed Diamond Naturals: Lamb & Rice. We feed 7 dogs ranging in size from 7 pounds to 65 pounds and they all are doing great on it. If you're like me and have a limited about of money to spend on food I would by the best I can afford and right now, for me, its DN:LR

If/when I am back down to just our 7 (I have 10 foster dogs) they will be switched to Taste of The Wild. I feed my cats ToTW and they are in such good condition.

I agree with feeding the highest quality (you can afford) as in the long run will save you time and money.

Same goes for treats


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Purple Poodle said:


> Just wanted to add in my two cents worth
> 
> I*Same goes for treats [/QUOTE*]
> 
> ...


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

I just boil any meat.. Stella LOVES worcestershire and so did my doberman! So I put a tiny shake of that in her food..she loves it. I boil chicken, pork or grill it. Or if its ground meat I just cook in a pan on the stove..like I would for us! Easy is the key.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

I usually buy homemade biscuits at dog events or at the feed store. I tried making my biscuits before. Riley really liked them. I just totally winged it, and they turned out fine.

For one recepie it was About
1c wheat flour
1c oats
1c bran or something else i had on hand for a binder
1/2c-ish crunchy peanut butter
enough water to mix

Another time i substutied the PB for parmasean cheese and bacon bits. I baked them both for about an hour i believe on like 250ish to dry them out but not burn. I used bone and fire hydrant shaped cookie cutters! Riley LOVED them, and they turned out great!!! If i needed more binder i would add more flour, wetter then add more water. I worked the dough with my hands so it was firm enough to roll out without sticking to everything, but not crumble. 
I froze them in like 10 to a baggie and just dethawed what we needed. I learned the hard way that they do not keep at room temp for a long time (like over 2 weeks in my basement), or they will get moldy.  Hense the freezing and it works great! I havnt taken the time to do them since though. I think i need to get them really dry and crunchy though next time.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Thanks for recipes. I am going to make my own.. Here the hollistic ones sell for $3.24 a pound.. Insane. I can bend over an oven for this amount, LOL


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

i got worried years ago when wellness sold out, but it's consistently been good for my dogs from then to now. 

isn't totw another diamond brand? it was too rich for my dogs so back to wellness we went.

my retailer is also working on getting orijen in ... it's stalled because they are also a non profit 501 c3.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

I like to make my treats. I normally just Google or Bing "dog treat recipes" & pick one that sounds good and a easy.

Or if I don't have the time I will buy Loving Pets brand treats they are all natural, no by products, no preservative. I'm not sure if I'm aloud post a link to their website so just do Google/Bing search


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

whitepoodles said:


> Purple Poodle said:
> 
> 
> > Just wanted to add in my two cents worth
> ...


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Thanks again great information and very useful.


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