# Standard Poodle Pedigree "Game" ,super quick and easy



## Paragon (Feb 18, 2012)

Yaddaluvpoodles,

Great idea! It would be great to find more lines!... !!!! Especially interesting for everyone to find out your own "Tail Lines". I hope there are some out there... It would be exciting to find something new in this community.... where else, but with poodle lovers....

Paragon


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## roulette (Feb 18, 2011)

Checked mine...I'm out...although I hate to think of my kids as "common"..: )

Good idea, tho !


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Minka von Strassburg on Dam's side. 

http://www.phrdatabase.com/cgi_bin/pp_pedigree.pl?id=135561

ETA: But I think I might have done it wrong. Alma II might be it. http://www.phrdatabase.com/cgi_bin/pp_pedigree.pl?id=94071

ETA ETA: I can't _believe_ how much Safari Millie has in her pedigree way back when!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I've done four and so far...on the list! Found it amusing that Quincy and Thinker are related.


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

I signed up and will love giving this a whirl. Interested in how my first two poodles (a Magnum son and a Donnchada dog) compare to my latest, a parti (sure to have a more...interesting pedigree).

--Q


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## lwm1984 (Apr 15, 2012)

Nope, Lullu and Alma II!

Vetset Kate Winsit (Westminster best of breed I think) has Dinah Doe as a tail on the Dam's side.


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## jasperspoo (Feb 25, 2011)

I got Lullu and Zulu (Miss Waldene's) unregistered on Jasper's.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

How interesting. I did 4 dogs and the first 3 had the same male tail!

One of the 4 had Gretl von Cannstatt at the end of the female line, and I came up with two new names at the end of the female lines:

Sagy de Mansigne
Modi

I sent pedigrees to Darla.


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## vtomblin (Jul 18, 2010)

My boy has some different ones from your list. His name it Paw's Finity Phoenix


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

roulette said:


> Checked mine...I'm out...although I hate to think of my kids as "common"..: )
> 
> Good idea, tho !


Hmmm.. I don't know about common, I think that every poodle is special. <VBG>


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Minka von Strassburg on Dam's side.
> 
> http://www.phrdatabase.com/cgi_bin/pp_pedigree.pl?id=135561
> 
> ...



Thanks CM! Alma II is the female tail.

Darla


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> I've done four and so far...on the list! Found it amusing that Quincy and Thinker are related.



I've had a lot of fun looking at pedigree's while looking up the tails. It simply amazes me how many names I see over and over.

The "tail" lists that I posted are the only tails I was aware of at the time I posted it. There have been a few more female tails identified, but very few so far, I'm hoping that everyone takes the time to look and see who their poodles male and female tails are.

It's really amazing.. when stop and think that (excluding the yet to be identified tails), all of our standard poodles go back to these ancestors!

Darla


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

lwm1984 said:


> Vetset Kate Winsit (Westminster best of breed I think) has Dinah Doe as a tail on the Dam's side.



Thank you!

Dinah Doe is actually the same tail line as Whippendell Corisette (I probably should have listed that a bit differently)... but am still learning about these myself.

Darla


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

jasperspoo said:


> I got Lullu and Zulu (Miss Waldene's) unregistered on Jasper's.


Happy Dance!:dancing:

I'd be very interested in seeing Jasper's pedigree.. if you feel like sharing. 

Zulu is a "new" female tail! Yes!!! Wahoo!!


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

vtomblin said:


> My boy has some different ones from your list. His name it Paw's Finity Phoenix


I took a look. 

His male tail is Lullu (clicked on the upper right hand name in the pedigree through seven screens)

His female tail is (BIG DRUM ROLL HERE): Ilse

Which is another "new" female tail. :dance2:


Thank you so much for checking and sharing!

Darla


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## jasperspoo (Feb 25, 2011)

Looking at it again, it may be Whippendell Gogo for the female tail, which is still slightly different. The last box has nothing in the lower right corner, but the rest is filled in, and the second 'box' up from the lower-right is the dog I wrote about previously. Anyhow, the pedigree below is Jasper's litter-mate Connor, since Jasper isn't on PHR.

http://www.phrdatabase.com/cgi_bin/pp_pedigree.pl?id=174328

Please let me know what you find!


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## jasperspoo (Feb 25, 2011)

Jasper's best bud Roscoe is Lullu (interesting that they're related, even so far) and Myra von der Nymphenburg.

Here's his pedigree (also a littlermate's, not Roscoe's specifically) 

http://www.phrdatabase.com/cgi_bin/pp_pedigree.pl?id=112414


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## Anntig (Jun 9, 2010)

jasperspoo said:


> Looking at it again, it may be Whippendell Gogo for the female tail, which is still slightly different. The last box has nothing in the lower right corner, but the rest is filled in, and the second 'box' up from the lower-right is the dog I wrote about previously. Anyhow, the pedigree below is Jasper's litter-mate Connor, since Jasper isn't on PHR.
> 
> http://www.phrdatabase.com/cgi_bin/pp_pedigree.pl?id=174328
> 
> Please let me know what you find!


the female tail on that line is dinah doe



jasperspoo said:


> Jasper's best bud Roscoe is Lullu (interesting that they're related, even so far) and Myra von der Nymphenburg.
> 
> Here's his pedigree (also a littlermate's, not Roscoe's specifically)
> 
> http://www.phrdatabase.com/cgi_bin/p...e.pl?id=112414


this one is Alma II

male for both is Lullu


all of our lot share the same male and female and I'm guessing most bred from long time breeders in NZ would be the same too, not a lot of diversity here until very recently. Ours are 

Lullu and Dinah doe


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## Tuomas (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, according to PHR my dog ends with Lullu and Alberte but according to Poodle pedigree Alberte leads to Alma II. So no new names.

I need to try to find official source and add missing parent data to SPD and PHR. Any hints where to look?


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

Tuomas said:


> Well, according to PHR my dog ends with Lullu and Alberte but according to Poodle pedigree Alberte leads to Alma II. So no new names.
> 
> I need to try to find official source and add missing parent data to SPD and PHR. Any hints where to look?



It looks like there are quite a few Champions in that female tail line, that will make it a bit easier to track. I would probably send PHR an "add pedigree" Add Dog request, am guessing that they may have the resources they need to add get that pedigree completed.

Darla


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

I'm not sure if I did something wrong, but my old dog, Cappy, ends up with Lullu in the male line and either Dora (#1) or Bella von Gutenberg on the female line (depending on when I was supposed to stop clicking).

My other old dog wasn't in the database (not surprised; he was never used for breeding). I couldn't find his papers, but I looked up his AKC number and I'll try to enter him, if that's enough info. I couldn't figure out how to even look at his pedigree at the AKC site.

Sugar ends with Lullu (how about that!?) and Mabel (Mr.Knight's).

Fun game! I'll have to add Sugar himself to the database (I just looked up his parents).

--Q


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

Hi Darla, not my dogs, but I know of at least two bitches in breeding programmes with a maternal tail that goes back to Ilse. The only others I'm turning up at the moment are Russian and Dutch stuff etc. that only goes back 5 generations or so and I don't really feel can be relied upon.


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

Quossum said:


> I'm not sure if I did something wrong, but my old dog, Cappy, ends up with Lullu in the male line and either Dora (#1) or Bella von Gutenberg on the female line (depending on when I was supposed to stop clicking).
> 
> My other old dog wasn't in the database (not surprised; he was never used for breeding). I couldn't find his papers, but I looked up his AKC number and I'll try to enter him, if that's enough info. I couldn't figure out how to even look at his pedigree at the AKC site.
> 
> ...


Would love to see their pedigrees if you feel like sharing!
Darla


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

zyrcona said:


> Hi Darla, not my dogs, but I know of at least two bitches in breeding programmes with a maternal tail that goes back to Ilse. The only others I'm turning up at the moment are Russian and Dutch stuff etc. that only goes back 5 generations or so and I don't really feel can be relied upon.


I wonder if the Ilse tail is more common in the UK (that's where the Nunsoe Poppy tail is the most common).

Of course you can imagine my next question... :questionmark:

Pedigrees?

It's always a long shot on the pedigrees that only go back a few generations, however, if you take a look at the few poodles on the list of tails, I think it's worth it to take a closer look at them. It's really hard tracking down older pedigrees in Russia.

Darla


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

Yaddaluvpoodles said:


> I wonder if the Ilse tail is more common in the UK (that's where the Nunsoe Poppy tail is the most common).
> 
> Of course you can imagine my next question... :questionmark:
> 
> ...


Will send you them. I emailed the Russian Kennel Club's translation department a while ago trying to get some information on poodles there, no response as yet. Russia is supposedly one of the poodle's origins, and I fantasise that there might be a huge reservoir of untapped diversity lurking over there that I can't see because I can't read Russian. Or just a lot of incomplete pedigrees going back to the same old as everywhere else.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Bonnie's are both different from your list:
male tail is: Blague
female tail is: Fiffi Von Luttringhaussen

Here is her pedigree:
Pedigree: GRCH Tiara Marmalade Skies

The mail tail is likely different because there was a male mini several generations back. The female tail has no minis. Her mother side has no minis. Doing her mothers side the male tail is Prinz Number 1. Female is the same (Fiffi).


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

zyrcona said:


> Will send you them. I emailed the Russian Kennel Club's translation department a while ago trying to get some information on poodles there, no response as yet. Russia is supposedly one of the poodle's origins, and I fantasise that there might be a huge reservoir of untapped diversity lurking over there that I can't see because I can't read Russian. Or just a lot of incomplete pedigrees going back to the same old as everywhere else.


Thanks!

Mindy Pedery (Zorcon), passed away d/t cancer, did quite a bit of pedigree research in Russia without turning a whole lot up. Olesya at Ark-Ola Ark-Ola Poodles
offered to help with translations, I don't know if that offer is still open or not.

There was a Kennel Club in Moscow called the "Moscow City Association of Dog Lovers" which has a registry and catalogs. I've tried unsuccessfully to find more information about them. Here's a link which mentions them and they are frequently abbreviated as MGOL Dobermannn kennel "iz Zoosfery" / History


Darla


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

Yaddaluvpoodles said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Mindy Pedery (Zorcon), passed away d/t cancer, did quite a bit of pedigree research in Russia without turning a whole lot up. Olesya at Ark-Ola Ark-Ola Poodles
> offered to help with translations, I don't know if that offer is still open or not.
> ...


Thanks for that. :-D Will have a look.

I have this suspicion that Leighbridge Prince Igor might have an heir hidden away somewhere. I started looking, but it's hard work trying to trace it the other way, and I looked at too many dogs and broke my PHR account.  The youngest one I've found so far was born in 1981.


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

outwest said:


> Bonnie's are both different from your list:
> male tail is: Blague
> female tail is: Fiffi Von Luttringhaussen
> 
> ...


Thanks, yes, Bonnie's male tail is different because it goes back to a toy line. Any of the mini x standard crosses will have different tails (on whichever side the mini was on) than standard x standards. 

Fiffi von Luttringhaussen is the Alma II tail line, the pedigree on PPD isn't completed and.. I haven't done it yet because there are duplicate pedigrees for Fiffi with different spellings, so I imagine it's going to take a bit of correction to get the offspring listed under the correctly spelled name before the other can be deleted. Not going to be able to get to it today, I sent it to the Poodle Pedigree list and am hoping someone else is willing to tackle that one. 

BTW you may want to take a look at Bonnie's pedigree on PHR.. the mini side has been filled in:cheers2: (Thanks again to the good folk at PHR!)

Darla


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I just did my new puppy for fun (dam from Bonnie's breeder, male from a different breeder):
Male tail is Lullu
Female tail is also Fiffi Von Luttringhaussen. 

edit: Oh! Alma. Say, thanks for telling me about PHR filling it in. I will check it because then I will have an accurate Wycliffe! he he he. off to check.

edit again: Wycliffe 28.27%, unchanged as suspected.


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

zyrcona said:


> Thanks for that. :-D Will have a look.
> 
> I have this suspicion that Leighbridge Prince Igor might have an heir hidden away somewhere. I started looking, but it's hard work trying to trace it the other way, and I looked at too many dogs and broke my PHR account.  The youngest one I've found so far was born in 1981.


:ahhhhh: re: broken account (snicker, snicker!). I think they set limits to prevent computer programs from harvesting the info there.. kind of as a protective measure. I "broke" mine twice in a 48 hour period.. the second time was after Lynn had raised my limit. It's frustrating when doing tail line work, because I have to back up to pedigrees I've already looked at when I lose a line and when I "break" my account I forget where I was at and have to start all over again. Sigh.

Darla


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

Yaddaluvpoodles said:


> :ahhhhh: re: broken account (snicker, snicker!). I think they set limits to prevent computer programs from harvesting the info there.. kind of as a protective measure. I "broke" mine twice in a 48 hour period.. the second time was after Lynn had raised my limit. It's frustrating when doing tail line work, because I have to back up to pedigrees I've already looked at when I lose a line and when I "break" my account I forget where I was at and have to start all over again. Sigh.
> 
> Darla


Ya, I keep doing this. One time I decided I would look up all the dogs with SA and record their Wycliffe and COI to see if there was a pattern. Didn't work. It might help if there was a downloadable version people could use for stuff like this.


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> ETA ETA: I can't _believe_ how much Safari Millie has in her pedigree way back when!


Interesting offtopic: the 'Safari cluster' (Safari's Evensong and a son of hers and some other male descendant I can't remember at the moment) is one of the main sources of the ky gene, i.e. the gene responsible for the expression of agouti patterns (phantom and sable). All the dogs in the cluster were white, so the breeder likely never saw it get expressed, but it passed into several other kennels this way. I seem to find quite a lot of dogs with Safari in them, but it might just be that I'm tuned to notice it because it rings that particular bell.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

zyrcona said:


> I seem to find quite a lot of dogs with Safari in them, but it might just be that I'm tuned to notice it because it rings that particular bell.


Yes, you are right. Safari's Evensong was the top producing dam in America for over 27 years so it comes as no surprise that you see a lot of Safari behind many standard poodles.


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

Stella goest back to Lulu and Fiffi Von Luttringhaussen--same as your female tail outwest!

http://www.poodlepedigree.com/pedigree.asp?ID=342373


Modonna's is exactly the same thing..


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## Tuomas (Feb 28, 2012)

zyrcona said:


> Will send you them. I emailed the Russian Kennel Club's translation department a while ago trying to get some information on poodles there, no response as yet. Russia is supposedly one of the poodle's origins, and I fantasise that there might be a huge reservoir of untapped diversity lurking over there that I can't see because I can't read Russian. Or just a lot of incomplete pedigrees going back to the same old as everywhere else.


It would be nice to get more data about this dog:
PHR Pedigree Database

All dogs missing from the 10 generation pedigree of my puppy seem to be predecessors of that dog.


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

Hey Darla, have found you a dog with a new male tail line:

'Cosmos Son of Topaz' Not quite a Prince Igor heir, but he's back there. Paternal tail goes back to Kelly (Miss McDonald's). Maternal tail is Dinah Doe (not so exciting)

PHR Pedigree Database

Born 2004, has sired offspring in '05 and so could well be still alive and entire (or one of his male offspring may be if not). Preliminary research suggests he is in the USA, possibly in or near some place called Durham (presumably named after the Durham we have here).

:-D 

Will see if I can find any more leads. Suffering from a jet-stream summer here and trying to pass the time before I take my bitch to agility this evening.

Edit: No, nothing. :-( Canen had a hell of a lot of dogs sired by Leighbridge Louis D'Ore, but very few of them and none of the males seem to have carried the line onwards.


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## PoodlePowerBC (Feb 25, 2011)

Russell is Prinz #1 and Alma II
It was fun though


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Some people have been using Russian imports and have been happy with the results. My SIL Moyen is sired by a russian Moyen import and he's beautiful. He seems to go back to some standards. Do Moyens all go back to standards, too?








female tail goes to Fiffi Von Luttringhausen 
male tail Whippendell Toro


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

outwest said:


> Some people have been using Russian imports and have been happy with the results. My SIL Moyen is sired by a russian Moyen import and he's beautiful. He seems to go back to some standards. Do Moyens all go back to standards, too?


Cute dog -- looks sort of between a standard and a miniature in his appearance. Who is his sire (is he on PHR?) and where did he come from?


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Riley's "tail male" goes back to Karo von der Donna. Tail female is Dora #1.

Draco's pedigree isnt up yet as he is only 4 months.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

So this is only a Standard Poodle pedigree and not poodle pedigree? Toy and miniatures? Guess I was confused.


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## McKay (Feb 19, 2011)

For Little Anderson it is:

Male tail - Lullu
Female tail - Morsea

Is that a new one?


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Nova's male tail is Lullu. I _think_ the female tail is "Cindy of Singing Spruce"?? The pedigree just ends at her, and I'm not very familiar with reading these. 

http://www.phrdatabase.com/cgi_bin/pp_pedigree.pl?id=32916

The female tail for her sire is Grethl von Cannstatt. I looked this up because I tried to find her mother's pedigree and couldn't, but then after some searching ended up finding her. I don't know if that's relevant or not.


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## NYNIC715 (Oct 15, 2012)

Ok I am a little confused with the PHR... I was able to find the parents to a potential pup - but I am a little lost on how you decipher the info - can someone help me with understanding how the listing next to a dog works?

I have pasted in below 2 pedigrees - other than seeing that Hips are excellent, I am a little lost  :help:

Hips=Excellent[OFA] , Parent_of=Cataracts-Punctate[OFA], IBD, Excellent[OFA](2), Fair[OFA](1), Good[OFA](6) 

Hips=Good[OFA] , Parent_of=Excellent[OFA](1), Good[OFA](2), Prelim Good[OFA](1) , Sibling_with=Fair[OFA](1), Good[OFA](2) 

Thank you! :laugh2:


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Just found this thread 2 of mine are not unique BUT I think my boy Apollo has some new names on his pedigree. Both his mom through her sire ACC's Prince Of The Basin and his sire through Kalee-Rose Mr. Miyagi go back to names not on your list.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

spindledreams said:


> Just found this thread 2 of mine are not unique BUT I think my boy Apollo has some new names on his pedigree. Both his mom through her sire ACC's Prince Of The Basin and his sire through Kalee-Rose Mr. Miyagi go back to names not on your list.


I'm no expert on this, but I think that the thing that people are interested in is the male tail line (father of father of father, etc.) and the female tail line (mother of mother of mother, etc.). If you introduce "his mom" into the picture of the male tail line, that doesn't count. That's because some genes are passed only from male to male. So if a female had an interesting male tail line, it wouldn't matter because the female would not be inheriting or passing on the genes that are passed from male to male. Apollo's male tail line goes back to Lullu who is one of the males mentioned by the OP.

Thanks for bumping this thread. I think it is a really interesting topic.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

It may not work from my boys pedigree but perhaps she can find others where the animals are in tail male or tail female. It at least gives her something to check on


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## Paragon (Feb 18, 2012)

Actually this is a good time to bring this back up!!!!

I am working on Tail lines... It is connected to a study on diversity... GET BACK AT IT. PLEASE!!!

I have posted little as I have been hung up with research... 

The study I am helping out with is at UC Davis. Dr. Pederson is the Prof. Sorry littles, we are looking for Standards only at this point. If all goes well, who knows. We are looking for different dogs. Best thing is the cost of testing is FREE. 

It is looking at the diversity of the Gene Pool and the Immune System. BORING for those with healthy Poodles, but exciting for anyone who pays vet bills because of things like Bloat, AD, Cushings, SA, IMHA.. Not fun and EXPENSIVE.... 

Have fun and see what you all can find...


Carol


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

I just registered ... Waiting for my account to be activated...

I only have Lou's pedigree ... Even though Apollo has a pedigree, because he is a rescue, I was not able to get his papers from his previous owners (they were NOT nice people)


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

nevermind


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

?............


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## Dolly's Mom (Feb 14, 2014)

Dolly's got 
Lullu
Modi


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## Dolly's Mom (Feb 14, 2014)

Georgette's got
Zulu (Miss Waldene's)
Lullu


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## Mahlon (Jun 8, 2014)

For Quinn its Lullu & Dinah Doe.

Very interesting!


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