# "The Moyen Poodle" breeder in Georgia



## poodlecrazy#1

I wouldn't go anywhere near them. Breeding minis to standards is not the way to get a Moyen it's the way to get bad conformation. Also is there any health testing listed? Even a sentence mentioning health testing? They also seem to have a lot of nothing on their website. You have to contact them in order to really get any info. 


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## GraceFam

I'm confused then bc it looks like they are breeding Moyens with Moyens. How did you figure that out?

I also read somewhere (maybe her FB page) that she's only doing one litter a year...

I guess the "standard" for puppy breeding is just not something every one understands across the board and people get sucked into seeing that cute little pup.  I don't want to be that person!


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## poodlecrazy#1

It's the differences in conformation that you have to look at not just stats with hight and weight. When looking at her stud dogs conformation he obviously is a large miniature. He also looks to be longer than he is tall which is not proper conformation. Now when looking at her females conformation the are obviously small standards. It is much harder if not impossible to see their conformation because they are laying down and not standing. Another issue I have with her breeding practices is I don't see anywhere on her website that she shows or competes with her poodles. Two companion dogs should not be bred just because they are cute. Dogs that compete in sports obedience or conformation are the ones that should be bred. I absolutely love this chart because it really shows to a person that if they and their dog has not done all of these things then there is no reason to be breeding them. The standard for puppy breeding is defiantly not something everyone understands. It's a very complicated process that take research. It wasn't until I joined poodle form that I really understood what a good breed is. I mean look at my Tpoos, they are completely BYB status dogs. I still absolutely love my breeder and think she is a very caring person. But I would not purchase another dog from her that's for sure (Killa doesn't count because I didn't purchase her she gave her to me ) . 











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## FireStorm

I don't know anything about the breeder you asked about, but I just wanted to say that we started our search looking for a Moyen poodle, but ended up with a standard instead because it seems like options for finding a quality Moyen in the US are limited. I felt Karbit, in Nevada, had nice dogs (but I am certainly not an expert) but she is in Nevada and we are in FL and I do not think she ships.


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## liljaker

Also, FYI, moyen is not a recognized variety of poodle in the U.S. I'd stick with a mini or a standard and when you speak with the breeder, look for a larger mini or a smaller standard since there are usually different size pups in each litter.


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## CharismaticMillie

GraceFam said:


> What do you think?
> 
> TheMoyenPoodle.com - Premium Moyen Poodle breeder


First, moyen/klein is not a size acknowledged in the United States. Poodles are classified in the US as either toys, miniatures, or standards. 

Next, they have a cute website to attract customers, but upon looking at their dogs I see a standard poodle bitch who is on the petite side, but at 21 inches tall most certainly does not full under the European moyen or klein classification. 

They do have a 17 inch height stud dog. He looks to be an oversized miniature.

No mention of health testing, no pedigrees available.


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## kcp1227

I did a little nosing into her a while back when I was still looking. I would not go with this breeder. Very little health testing, no proving of her dogs, and I also came across where her dogs are used in doodle breeding (I had to dig to find that!). 


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## CharismaticMillie

kcp1227 said:


> I did a little nosing into her a while back when I was still looking. I would not go with this breeder. Very little health testing, no proving of her dogs, and I also came across where her dogs are used in doodle breeding (I had to dig to find that!). Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Yes, I found that too. It accidentally came across it because I accidentally clicked on the link on the bottom of the website that says "made by doodledesigns". When I got to that website, a website of a doodle breeder, I saw where the doodle breeder had at least one dog from the moyen breeder.


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## poodlecrazy#1

Wow! Never knew that one and I even have her on Facebook! Like I mentioned earlier there is a lot of nothing on their site and I feel like there are many more secrets behind all that. 


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## kontiki

CharismaticMillie said:


> .....a website of a doodle breeder, I saw where the doodle breeder had at least one dog from the moyen breeder. /QUOTE]
> 
> Oops. I refuse to work with a breeder that does doodles.


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## hunny518

They do claim they health test and will provide results upon request. But I would not go to this breeder for other factors listed by previous posts

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## DancingBay

I found this breeder (The Moyen Poodle) yesterday and thought she might be what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a small standard 18-23" tall. She has a litter coming up that's with 2 obvious small standards. The creme female with black nose and a light chocolate male who is not shown on their website. I've emailed her several times today, and she's supposed to send health testing for the parents, but haven't seen it. The doodle thing really bothers me though. Also, as far as I can tell, there is no limited registration. It looks like all are full registrations.

There's another breeder near me and am wondering if anyone knows anything about them: Te-Awa. It does look like they show. I emailed them last night, but have not heard anything back from them yet.

Personally, I'm not all that hung up on whether the parents have confirmation titles. Health testing yes. I know of one Breeder of Merit who does not title all of her females. Or at least they aren't listed on her website with CH in front of their names.


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## DancingBay

Also, does anyone know anything about this breeder: Char-Nel Kennels?


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## spindledreams

There are many good Standard breeders that are producing females in the 21 to 22 inch range. I have one here that is barely over 21 inches tall and weighs between 36 and 37 pounds. Her mother, grand mother and sister are all about that size. 

Just another avenue for you to explore.


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## kontiki

DancingBay said:


> I found this breeder (The Moyen Poodle) yesterday and thought she might be what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a small standard 18-23" tall. ..... The doodle thing really bothers me though.


Hmm - apparently TheMoyenPoodle.com - Premium Moyen Poodle breeder does allow their dogs to breed doodles since Molly shows up on this Doodle site: Our Breeding Dogs – Dreamydoodles NW- Aussiedoodle and Labradoodle Puppies | Best Labradoodle Breeders in Washington State, Portland, Oregon that shows a Moyen Poodle. I would be very leery of any breeder that allows their poodles to be used to produce doodles. 

Out of curiosity I have emailed the moyen poodle to see if Molly is actually one of theirs.

I hope you will look for small standards.


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## peppersb

DancingBay said:


> I found this breeder (The Moyen Poodle) yesterday and thought she might be what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a small standard 18-23" tall. She has a litter coming up that's with 2 obvious small standards. *The creme female with black nose and a light chocolate male who is not shown on their website. *I've emailed her several times today, and she's supposed to send health testing for the parents, but haven't seen it. The doodle thing really bothers me though. Also, as far as I can tell, there is no limited registration. It looks like all are full registrations.


Breeding a cream to a brown is what produces the liver-colored noses. So that's another reason to pass on this litter.

I found it very difficult to find small standards that are well-bred. There are plenty of marginal breeders that are advertising small standards or moyens (the moyens are usually standard-mini crosses). I think your best bet is to talk to breeders that are not specifically advertising small standards. The upper end of the size range that you mention should not be hard to find. Lots of females are 22 or 23 inches. Find some good breeders in your area and ask how big their pups are likely to be. That's how I got my Cammie (she is 21.5 inches and 33 pounds).

I would love to see more responsible breeding of a smaller sized standard. Lots of people love this size.


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## hopetocurl

Oh, check out ArreauStandardPoodles, she is a forum member.


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## DancingBay

> There's another breeder near me and am wondering if anyone knows anything about them: Te-Awa. It does look like they show.


I heard back from this breeder this morning. All of their stock is from Germany. She said that German Kleins don't have some of the health issue that US poodles have (due to stricter testing requirements on breeders in Germany) so they test for fewer things. Parents on her current litter have been cleared for Hips, PRA, and Legge Calve Perthes which goes several generations back. She also said that her puppies should top out around 16"-18". Opinions?


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## lily cd re

In addition to health testing I think it is important that a breeder shows their dogs in conformation and/or performance sports and has proven them with titles.


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## poodlecrazy#1

DancingBay said:


> I heard back from this breeder this morning. All of their stock is from Germany. She said that German Kleins don't have some of the health issue that US poodles have (due to stricter testing requirements on breeders in Germany) so they test for fewer things. Parents on her current litter have been cleared for Hips, PRA, and Legge Calve Perthes which goes several generations back. She also said that her puppies should top out around 16"-18". Opinions?



I don't know, to me that sounds like an excuse but who knows it might be true. At least she does do some testing and showing. The website is very limited on info, I would definitely request proof of the health testing before proceeding. As for the Moyen Poodle, I would avoid for sure. If I remember correctly the OP actually did get one of her puppies and it came to her sick, with horrible yeast infections in its ears and either lice or fleas I think. The breeder of course refused to help with any medical care and referred her back to the contract she signed saying once the puppy is in the hands of the new owner the breeder is not responsible for anything. 

Even though you are not wanting a pup to show or compete in anything, you should still look for a breeder that shows or does something with their dogs. Breeding two companion dogs is not helping improve a breed. Breeding a dog that competes in agility, conformation, or is a therapy/service dog, now that is improving the breed and shows that the breeder cares about what they are breeding.


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## blkpudel

It is very difficult to find quality small standards or moyens or kleins in North America. 

Those who are breeding good health tested dogs like Karin Benker of Karbit Poodles or Julie Borst Reed of Tiara have imported a number of dogs from Europe either small standards (because there is an upper height limit in their standards, usually 24 inches + a little bit) or old kleinpudel or moyen lines. They have also done Inter variety matings with good results by breeding like structure to like structure.....so you don't get wonky looking dogs. Because these sizes are not officially recognized in North America by the official Poodle clubs they often get slammed by mainstream breeders. However, pet people and performance people love the size. I know I do.

These matings have been done to increase genetic diversity and health. The bonus is that you get a dog that falls within the huge "no-mans land" of between 16-20 inches....too big for a mini and too small for a standard. They usually have standard-like personalities but can be more active.

Rudy has been bred to a standard and has produced standard sized puppies and has recently been bred to a French import moyen.

Be very careful where you look for your "small standard" because there are many who are doing it just for the money and have no interest in health testing or proving temperament by having dogs in their lines get performance titles. Good breeders back up their program by posting health testing results to OFA and having dogs from their breedings in performance homes. They can provide references.

Orthopedic Foundation for Animals


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## kontiki

kontiki said:


> Hmm - apparently TheMoyenPoodle.com - Premium Moyen Poodle breeder does allow their dogs to breed doodles since Molly shows up on this Doodle site: Our Breeding Dogs – Dreamydoodles NW- Aussiedoodle and Labradoodle Puppies | Best Labradoodle Breeders in Washington State, Portland, Oregon that shows a Moyen Poodle.
> Out of curiosity I have emailed the moyen poodle to see if Molly is actually one of theirs.


I got an answer back.

This is what I emailed to MoyenPoodles: "I was looking for a doodle and found this poodle(Molly) as a parent. Is she one of your poodles? Molly – CKC Moyen Poodle- Aussiedoodle and Labradoodle Puppies | Best Labradoodle Breeders in Washington State, Portland, Oregon "

Here is the answer I received today:
"<[email protected]>	
8:38 AM (6 hours ago)
Yes she is a grandpuppy. Great girl, great breeder, you will get a great puppy from her program."

So yes, they do let their poodles be used to breed doodles.


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## N2Mischief

RUN!!!!! BTW, one of my silly pet peeves is anyone who refers to a brown poodle as a chocolate. Just that makes me believe they know nothing.


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## GraceFam

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> I don't know, to me that sounds like an excuse but who knows it might be true. At least she does do some testing and showing. The website is very limited on info, I would definitely request proof of the health testing before proceeding. As for the Moyen Poodle, I would avoid for sure. If I remember correctly the OP actually did get one of her puppies and it came to her sick, with horrible yeast infections in its ears and either lice or fleas I think. The breeder of course refused to help with any medical care and referred her back to the contract she signed saying once the puppy is in the hands of the new owner the breeder is not responsible for anything.
> 
> Even though you are not wanting a pup to show or compete in anything, you should still look for a breeder that shows or does something with their dogs. Breeding two companion dogs is not helping improve a breed. Breeding a dog that competes in agility, conformation, or is a therapy/service dog, now that is improving the breed and shows that the breeder cares about what they are breeding.


She did come to me with what had to have been kennel cough. Since she didn't cough well at the vet, he couldn't say but said it was a good possibility from the way I described her cough. It did get worse before it got better.

Her ears did smell funky but after a good cleaning and some home remedies she seemed fine to me.

I will update to say that we are getting another poodle and while I love my dog and her disposition, it sadly won't be from The Moyen Poodle. I wish I could say it were, bc I think there are some good things about the breeder. It makes me sad to hear that they may just be small standards. Hard to know what to believe really.


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## StandardLovie

Since I am relatively a 'newbie' at this forum, I don't want to seem classless, but I've had a run - in with this breeder. 


Almost seven years ago, I was looking for my first Spoo, and searching high & low for the right fit for my family. After posting several ads on internet forums, I was emailed by the said 'moyen' breeder, claiming that she had an almost 6 month old Moyen named 'Buddy', that for some reason, couldn't seem to be rehomed. When questioning this, I was told that because he had a strip of white on his chest, she couldn't find a single soul who wanted him. After driving almost two hours to meet her, I arrived at a very run down building, only to be met with the sight of 'Buddy' running free in the street, adjacent to a very busy intersection. After spending an hour playing with Buddy, I realized that he was the perfect Poodle for me. This was on a Thursday evening. Fast forward to Saturday morning, Buddy, renamed Jackson, is home with me, vomiting profusely, and is very lethargic. After rushing him to our Vet, we are told that he has some sort of a bacterial infection. After spending almost two weeks hooked up to IV's at our Vet Clinic, Jackson was able to come home & made a full recovery. After calling the breeder, I was told that the illness wasn't her problem, and that she NEVER guarantees the health of ANY of her puppies. I then found out that she had provided me with phony Vet records, of where the litter of pups had 'supposedly' been vaccinated.

Needless to say, in my opinion, this breeder isn't responsible, and DOES NOT need to be breeding.


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## Naira

StandardLovie said:


> Since I am relatively a 'newbie' at this forum, I don't want to seem classless, but I've had a run - in with this breeder.
> 
> 
> Almost seven years ago, I was looking for my first Spoo, and searching high & low for the right fit for my family. After posting several ads on internet forums, I was emailed by the said 'moyen' breeder, claiming that she had an almost 6 month old Moyen named 'Buddy', that for some reason, couldn't seem to be rehomed. When questioning this, I was told that because he had a strip of white on his chest, she couldn't find a single soul who wanted him. After driving almost two hours to meet her, I arrived at a very run down building, only to be met with the sight of 'Buddy' running free in the street, adjacent to a very busy intersection. After spending an hour playing with Buddy, I realized that he was the perfect Poodle for me. This was on a Thursday evening. Fast forward to Saturday morning, Buddy, renamed Jackson, is home with me, vomiting profusely, and is very lethargic. After rushing him to our Vet, we are told that he has some sort of a bacterial infection. After spending almost two weeks hooked up to IV's at our Vet Clinic, Jackson was able to come home & made a full recovery. After calling the breeder, I was told that the illness wasn't her problem, and that she NEVER guarantees the health of ANY of her puppies. I then found out that she had provided me with phony Vet records, of where the litter of pups had 'supposedly' been vaccinated.
> 
> Needless to say, in my opinion, this breeder isn't responsible, and DOES NOT need to be breeding.


Wow! That is horrible. Thank you for sharing. I was actually considering them at one point but was really turned off by the confirmation of her poodles, and the liver noses on whites and creams. 

I will not be considering them in the future

Edit: I might have actually given up on the moyen size. I just remembered there was another breeder that I was considering but she clearly breeds for profit, and breeds aussiedoodles. Going to stick with standards and hope for the breeder to predict which ones will be smaller. Unless I am lucky enough to find a moyen breeder with true moyen lines


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## Poodlerunner

blkpudel said:


> It is very difficult to find quality small standards or moyens or kleins in North America.
> 
> Those who are breeding good health tested dogs like Karin Benker of Karbit Poodles or Julie Borst Reed of Tiara have imported a number of dogs from Europe either small standards (because there is an upper height limit in their standards, usually 24 inches + a little bit) or old kleinpudel or moyen lines. They have also done Inter variety matings with good results by breeding like structure to like structure.....so you don't get wonky looking dogs. Because these sizes are not officially recognized in North America by the official Poodle clubs they often get slammed by mainstream breeders. However, pet people and performance people love the size. I know I do.
> 
> These matings have been done to increase genetic diversity and health. The bonus is that you get a dog that falls within the huge "no-mans land" of between 16-20 inches....too big for a mini and too small for a standard. They usually have standard-like personalities but can be more active.
> 
> Rudy has been bred to a standard and has produced standard sized puppies and has recently been bred to a French import moyen.
> 
> Be very careful where you look for your "small standard" because there are many who are doing it just for the money and have no interest in health testing or proving temperament by having dogs in their lines get performance titles. Good breeders back up their program by posting health testing results to OFA and having dogs from their breedings in performance homes. They can provide references.
> 
> Orthopedic Foundation for Animals


Yay! for this great post. I find this topic fascinating. I find it very hard to believe that breeding a standard to a miniature is going to cause one-eyed-monsters. I love the Tiara Poodle site because of what it shares about this topic. It's too bad the site does not seem to be recently updated. She shares a lot of good ideas for holistic rearing too.

pr


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## Poodlerunner

kontiki said:


> I got an answer back.
> 
> This is what I emailed to MoyenPoodles: "I was looking for a doodle and found this poodle(Molly) as a parent. Is she one of your poodles? Molly – CKC Moyen Poodle- Aussiedoodle and Labradoodle Puppies | Best Labradoodle Breeders in Washington State, Portland, Oregon "
> 
> Here is the answer I received today:
> "<[email protected]>
> 8:38 AM (6 hours ago)
> Yes she is a grandpuppy. Great girl, great breeder, you will get a great puppy from her program."
> 
> So yes, they do let their poodles be used to breed doodles.


When I looked at the website, I was not thinking I would ever buy a dog here and I would never support a breeder that promotes doodle breeding by buying a puppy from her.

pr


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## Poodlerunner

blkpudel said:


> It is very difficult to find quality small standards or moyens or kleins in North America.
> 
> Those who are breeding good health tested dogs like Karin Benker of Karbit Poodles or Julie Borst Reed of Tiara have imported a number of dogs from Europe either small standards (because there is an upper height limit in their standards, usually 24 inches + a little bit) or old kleinpudel or moyen lines. They have also done Inter variety matings with good results by breeding like structure to like structure.....so you don't get wonky looking dogs. Because these sizes are not officially recognized in North America by the official Poodle clubs they often get slammed by mainstream breeders. However, pet people and performance people love the size. I know I do.
> 
> These matings have been done to increase genetic diversity and health. The bonus is that you get a dog that falls within the huge "no-mans land" of between 16-20 inches....too big for a mini and too small for a standard. They usually have standard-like personalities but can be more active.
> 
> Rudy has been bred to a standard and has produced standard sized puppies and has recently been bred to a French import moyen.
> 
> Be very careful where you look for your "small standard" because there are many who are doing it just for the money and have no interest in health testing or proving temperament by having dogs in their lines get performance titles. Good breeders back up their program by posting health testing results to OFA and having dogs from their breedings in performance homes. They can provide references.
> 
> Orthopedic Foundation for Animals


Rudy is beautiful~ I would love to see more pictures of him.

pr


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