# Silver breeding



## Toodle (May 12, 2012)

Hi, just saw this thread so I thought I will post Here as well.

I have always loved poodles, and aspire to show and breed good quality poodles whilst enjoying them as part of the family. Life has come to a point where I can do so without consideration for money or time and I can just do it because of the love of it, so after discussion with the husband and with his support.. I went in search of our new family members. Since I have not seen a single silver or silver beige in my area and I have always loved all shades of silver, and grey. I wanted to introduce that amazing colour here but have met some challenges along the way. 

Hi everyone,
My breeder just contacted me yesterday and said that it seems more and more to her that my 'silver' pup may be BLACK and not Blue... She is an experienced breeder of silver and white poodle of at least 20years! 

What should I do? My dream was to bring silver poodles to my region as all I have seen through the years outside and in dog shows were red, white and the occasional apricot, and I LoVe silvers, or any shade of grey. Now, IF foundation boy is Black, doesn't that make it an impossible dream? I have read different poodle books and online articles over the past few months, and it seems black should NEVER be bred to silvers. ???
What is the difference between a dominant black and a black? This blue/'black' comes from a silver and white breeding. On both parents linage, there is only 1 blue and 1 black (so, total 2 blues & 2 blacks).
Also, I wanted to show my boy in the ring... I heard that Blues are not preferred because they take a long time to clear (but I was still gonna try), how about blacks? Are they also less favored?

The more I look at the photo of my blue/'black' pup, the more I want to keep him. Am I not being logical about it? 

This breeder has a older 4 1/2 moth old silver to silver breed toy now and ahe will have a white to white breeding later in the year. Should I just follow the dream or go with my heart at this time?

Sorry, I have asked so many questions. I have already arranged for the flight for my pup and to have this thrown at me 2 days before I leave for a month long trip is no fun..

Everyone, especially the experienced breeders.. Please share your thoughts.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Blacks and whites are easiest to finish, it's what judges are more used to seeing. If you get the black with the blues/silvers/whites in his lines you can expect he'll produce that depending on what he's bred to. I wouldn't rule out a well comformed dog, go with your gut feeling


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## Toodle (May 12, 2012)

*black to silver?*



Fluffyspoos said:


> Blacks and whites are easiest to finish, it's what judges are more used to seeing. If you get the black with the blues/silvers/whites in his lines you can expect he'll produce that depending on what he's bred to. I wouldn't rule out a well comformed dog, go with your gut feeling


Thanks for the input, Fluffyspoos,
I just looked at blue/'black' pup's parents pedigrees again. His dam is silver from a white to silver breeding. I see on her pedigree: 7silvers, 5 whites, 1 black & 1 blue.
The sire is white from a white to white breeding from nz. The pedigree does not say what colour they are, but I was able to find some online. So far, there's 
4 whites, 1 blue, 1 black. Couldn't find the rest online.

So, would it be ok to mate a black with this background to a silver? How should I work towards having silver pups? Or should I go with white female with silver in her linage?
Thanks. Would be great if silver girl will work too, I would love to have one in the family


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I wouldn't be the one to ask, since I'm not a breeder! But if you send me a PM I can recommend you to some very nice and experienced breeders that may answer your questions.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

I'm not speaking to the colour combinations for breeding, but I would say, get the best quality dog you can and don't worry so much about colour. It seems to be true that blacks and whites win more, but if your dog has excellent conformation, you'll finish him/her and like you said, time isn't really a big deal for you right now (so jealous!). But having said that, don't compromise on what you really want for your foundation dog because you'll be building on his/her lineage for many years! This first dog will be key part of your future endeavours, so take your time in choosing. Wishing you the best!


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

I'm not sure why anyone would think you shouldn't breed a black to a silver. I know of one silver standard that was bred twice to a black bitch. Pups were mostly blue, with a couple of blacks. Of course, what you get may vary depending on what is behind your black and your silver. You can see photos of these two dogs here:

Small Standard Poodles

The sire is the silver boy at the top front, and the dam (New Destiny's Minuet) is the one on the right (she is actually black--the photo was lightened a bit to show the details).


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## Toodle (May 12, 2012)

*Thank you*

Thank you all so much for sharing your thooughts. Talking to you all and your breeder friends really helped to provide more understanding in this matter.

I have decided to go ahead with this boy and have settled balance payment to the breeder and arranged the freight. Should have him by mid June


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

Toodle said:


> Hi, just saw this thread so I thought I will post Here as well.
> 
> I have always loved poodles, and aspire to show and breed good quality poodles whilst enjoying them as part of the family. Life has come to a point where I can do so without consideration for money or time and I can just do it because of the love of it, so after discussion with the husband and with his support.. I went in search of our new family members. Since I have not seen a single silver or silver beige in my area and I have always loved all shades of silver, and grey. I wanted to introduce that amazing colour here but have met some challenges along the way.
> 
> ...


Hi. Congrats on your position and on having the opportunity to pursue your dream.  Replying in here to your comments in the other thread also:

Black bred to silver should usually give you blue, and possibly a few cream colours depending on whether both dogs carry the e allele. Blue (clearing blue to differentiate it from grizzle and born blue colours) can produce silver if it is bred to a silver or another blue.

Usually when people refer to 'dominant black' they mean an EEBB dog. This dog can only ever sire offspring in black-spectrum colours (black, blue, and silver). If one of your dog's parents was white, he will carry the gene for apricot-spectrum colours (Ee).

Red and apricot breeders will often breed to blacks if their dogs are showing a tendency to lose their colour when they grow up. The idea is usually that the breeder chooses a black puppy from the litter (the black ones can apparently be recognised because they don't have white hair between their paw pads like blues and silvers will shortly after they're born) and the black puppy can easily be identifiable as not having clearing genes while hopefully carrying the genes for red/apricot. The other puppies are sold to breeders interested in other colours or as pets.


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## Toodle (May 12, 2012)

Thanks Zyrcona..
Wow, what a whole lot to know. 
It is ok whatever his colour is. I just didn't like not knowing at all, and the spin around on his color.
I should have asked the breeder why she thought he was silver in the 1st place, they must be a reason? Maybe she saw some hints on the pup like you mentioned? But then again, maybe I will just let the matter rest and go on my 3weeks trip and receive my pup when I get back


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