# Entropion.



## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Ugh! Get it fixed. If it truly is entropia then it can damage the eye over time. Your dog will be much more comfortable.

I can't remember if Flip is a rescue or not but this is a genetic issue and the breeder should be told. Also, I would think that the breeder should pay for at least part of his surgery.


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## taxtell (Sep 17, 2009)

He is a rescue, he was a breeder relinquish, so I'm sure the breeder was crap. 
The rescue insinuated that the breeder was shut down. The foster mom said the dogs were emaciated and matted with urine/feces when they arrived. 

I was hoping he might grow out of it, I'm vigilant with tears, I just did a stain as well to make sure there were no ulcerations. 

My boss, who isn't a veterinary ophthalmologist, just general practice, seems to think he might grow out of it. He said it was very mild.

I hate to have to go through the surgery/e-collar thing if he doesn't have to.


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

we had a dog a long time ago with a very mild case. It didn't require any drops or anything though. Our vet advsed us NOT to fix it b/c it was just in the corner of the eye and being such a mild case she felt like it wasnt worth the risk of damaging the tear ducts. 

I would consult an eye specialist were I in your position though. I have not heard of a young dog having it and growing out of it but it isn't an issue I've really delt much with before. If I were having to use artifical tears daily I would probably want to have the problem fixed.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Oh, is that when the eyelids are all saggy? Isn't that more common in bassets, shar peis, and other saggy skin breeds? I had no idea it was a skin/eye condition, I always thought that's how dogs were =/ learn something new every day.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

I had a Silver Standard with Entropian it was a nightmare three surgeries then he developed Dry eye. Because of where we live and all the dust I thought I would have to put him down Fortunately the breeder found him a GREAT home and he is till with her today ..I think the reccomendation to wait is a good one as your dog is still growing..


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

fluffyspoos, it's where the eyelid curls inwards, and the eyelashes rub against the eyeball itself. It can be very damaging if it's bad!
bigpoodleperson recently (this year?) had the surgury for her boy after trying just tecks for a start, hopefully she'll spot this and offer some help too.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Holy cow! @[email protected] That sounds very unconfortable!


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Yes, my boy had it this year. Im back to work from lunch, so ill reply later tonight!


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## jade cat (Sep 22, 2009)

Eddy had surgery on his Entropion at 3 months, on both eyes. His breeder did not want Eddy to suffer any permanent damage to his cornea and had him operated on swiftly after finding a problem. Eddy's eyes look a good shape and he has only a very little over tearing, his drainage is good, as he grows he might need some corrective surgery if his eyes change shape a lot, but at the moment his eyes do not look like he ever had an op. 
We did know Eddy had had this op before we brought him, but he and my Autistic son connected instantly, we just had to have him even if Eddy had his problems too!
My vet explained that sadly more often than not dogs will need corrective surgery to prevent damage to the Cornea, the main problem that might occur after the op is that the tear ducts might not drain properly or that you get a 'U' ish droop to the eye lid that collects tears and these spill on to the face, causing heavy tearing. 

Anna


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Ok, so like i said, Riley had his surgery in July of this year. He developed the entropion late winter/early spring. Riley is 7 years old. We tried a couple different drops first to see if it would help. It reduced the frequency of the rolling, but did not cure it. Once off the drops again he was pretty much rolling full time. My doctor talked to an opthomologist at the university. They suggested for us to first try "tacking" his lids down. That ment that we placed sutures in his lower lids to pull them down. The opth. recc. that we over tack them, so we pulled them out farther then normal. The hope was that his started the rolling because of an irritation. His eye muscles got so used to rolling, that there was too much muscle memory there. So by tacking them down for 14 days it would break the muscle memory. 

It worked for about a week after we took the sutures out. He then started rolling really bad again. We decided to bite the bullet then. He went up to see an opthomologist at the university. My vet wasnt comfortable doing the surgery on Riley. She does entropions, but since this happend so much later in life then normal she wanted him seen by the opth. We went up to the University of Wisconsin- Madison to see the opthomologist, and had the surgery done the same day (my vet pulled alot of strings/favors, as they normally dont do them on the same day). Riley has had dry eye for about a year, so that was another reason my vet didnt want to do it. 
We had the surgery on both eyes, and he has done Wonderfully since!! No more excessive tearing. I didnt realize how uncomfortable he was with it until it was fixed either (he never would paw or squint at his eyes to indicate he was uncomfortable). He obviously still has dry eye, and they said he might have to have the surgery again in the future. If he needs it, he will have it. 

I informed my breeder of it, but she didnt offer to help with it (and i didnt ask). So, that is our story. 

Rileys rolling was pretty bad. Here are some pictures i took to show the university of how bad it is.

This is him rolling the skin under the eye inwards. See the patch of dark hair right under the eye.










Here is the eye with me pulling the skin down. See that same patch of dark hair now at the bottom of the picture? That is how much he rolled.


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## taxtell (Sep 17, 2009)

Thank you so much for the reply.
I showed the pictures to my vet and he said Flip was no where near as bad and still thinks he'll grow out of it.

I guess we'll see.
Sharing that info was really really helpful! 


I hate to ask this, but I need to prepare, just in case, but was the surgery expensive?


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

So how many feel as if this is a inheritied disorder? Or do you feel like this just happens?


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

The surgery price actually wasnt as bad as i expected it to be or what they quoted me. The doctor doing it quoted me about 1500-2000$. This was for both eyes, anesthesia, etc. The price came out to about 750-800$. I had a full blood panel done at my vets (Much cheaper b/c of my discount), and was able to get all the medication done at my vets. Those (esp the blood) would of driven the cost up more (plus i had my own E-collar ). I also had them give Riley a pain injection there as he is a wimp. This is for university/specialist prices though! I was VERY pleased with UW though, and wouldnt hesitate to go back for any other problem! The doctor was great, and they let me do alot that they normally wouldnt (like have it done on the same day, and i was able to bring him home very early, he was still very gorked from the anesthesia, but i deal with that every day). 
Im glad our "story" helped!

This seems to be a very inheriated problem, although it can "just happen". None of Rileys relatives have had problems with this (or nearly the amount of problems in general we have had).


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

I groomed an apricot standard who had this, she came in about every 6 weeks, and even though the owner wiped her eyes daily, she still had gunky build up ( the owner was waiting for the surgery date) 

I have one with dry eye didnt know that dogs could even have it, but he does, and when its really bad (allergy time) he has terramiacin for it


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## taxtell (Sep 17, 2009)

Bigred: I think it is, definitely. Especially when it occurs in a young age.
Bigpoodleperson: Thanks again!

I'm still not 100% sure what I am going to do yet.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Personally, if he was mine and he was still growing then i would wait. Riley never got any ulcers on his eyes and we waited a long time (since he obviously wasnt growing anymore we wanted to try other meds, get him through allergy season to see if it would help with the irritants gone, the tacking, etc). 
Riley had alot of tears and staining during this time. He is not a runny eye dog (well, now he kinda is with the dry eye drops every day), and he looked horrible. 

Taxell, would your vet do it if needed? Your close to Madison if not, and i would recc. going there. Most vets are able to do a good job though (since Rileys was odd and happened later in life we wanted it checked out, also they found some corneal swelling).


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## taxtell (Sep 17, 2009)

bigpoodleperson said:


> Personally, if he was mine and he was still growing then i would wait. Riley never got any ulcers on his eyes and we waited a long time (since he obviously wasnt growing anymore we wanted to try other meds, get him through allergy season to see if it would help with the irritants gone, the tacking, etc).
> Riley had alot of tears and staining during this time. He is not a runny eye dog (well, now he kinda is with the dry eye drops every day), and he looked horrible.
> 
> Taxell, would your vet do it if needed? Your close to Madison if not, and i would recc. going there. Most vets are able to do a good job though (since Rileys was odd and happened later in life we wanted it checked out, also they found some corneal swelling).


I have been staining his eye off and on to check for corneal ulcers and nothing so far. The only symptom he is presenting is green **** in the morning and occasional squinting or rubbing (but he is gentle). Doc said that it was only in the right eye and that he thought it was looking better. He said he'd do the surgery if I want him to (he's done them before), but he wouldn't feel bad if I went to Madison or took him to the veterinary ophthalmologist.

Dr. Collins (the ophthalmologist) actually helped me out before with my horse. He had to fit him for a bandage contact. Putting a giant contact in a horse's eye is um...fun, but I digress.

I am going to let it ride a bit longer, he's just hit a growth spurt again. 

Thanks so much for all the info, btw. It's helped a lot.

It's hard to see clearly for me when it's my own pet, it's like I can't take my own usual advice! Hehehe.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

I completely agree!! I go back and forth on issues for Riley that i would know just what to tell a client to do. Like i am debating on bringing Riley in for some x-rays of his back right now. If i was my client i woud tell them to bring him in as it couldnt hurt. Sigh. We get a little "love blind".


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## taxtell (Sep 17, 2009)

My boss took a look at Flip's eyes today and said it was a huge improvement and that he's growing out of it!

He thinks it might have to do with his being so emaciated.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

That makes sense. The opth. said that Rileys was probably partly due to the fact that as he aged he lost face fat. Thus causing the rolling as there was more skin then before.

Im glad he is doing better and growing out of it!


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_That must be a great relief for both of you. I'm so glad to hear that he is doing better.
_


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