# Question... I'm curious



## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

My Standard poodles never never growl at me, they don't snarl, don't bark at me, don't even give me a dirty look.

And I read a lot, here on poodle forum, about people's poodles growling, barking and even biting occasionally and I am assuming it's a common thing and that sometimes it's not a major issue.

Now here is the dumb question:
Is it more common with minis and toys?
Are there standard's parents out there that have this happen?

Because, for instance, if one of my standard poodles have an ear infection or something and I accidentally touch the inside of the ear, they cry and lick me, which to me seems like they are just letting me know that it hurts and to not do it again.

I also know they hate when use baby wipes on their butt but they don't ever growl, bark, or anything.. 

It makes me really curious to know more about this.

Thanks 


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## Lea (Oct 20, 2012)

Hahaha baby wipes on their butts! Murphy hates that also!


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Lea said:


> Hahaha baby wipes on their butts! Murphy hates that also!


LOL I always check  because I don't want poo poo on my leather couch.. Or should I say THEIR leather couch! Hehehe 


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## Wren (Jul 2, 2013)

*Barking, growling*

My spoo never growled, ever...never, ever heard him. He barked all of 4-5 times in his life, so little that I never recognized his bark and was always astonished to hear it. He never snarled.

He never snapped at or bit anyone either. 

Now, I don't take credit for this, he was a Ch. that was rehomed to us at a year and a half due to health issues. I don't know if his breeder trained him through this or if this was just his nature, but I tend to lean towards it was his nature.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Mine are the same as yours, they never show any signs of aggression, even when they were spayed and I put ointment on their incisions or when Indy had that hot spot and I treated that, or when I clip their nails which they hate. They just put up with it all. But they're all individuals and just like people, some have different challenges. That's what I think, anyway


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

No way, no how, never would any dog of mine ever growl or snap at me.
Now the family dogs growing up, that was a different story - first we had a min pin that was a year older then me, and he was my protector and would bite anyone he did not know, but never me. Then we had as GSD that would only not bite the family - in order to see the Vet they had to muzzle. Him and tie him to a pole outside. Then we had a mini Schnauzer who saw herself above me but below the rest of the family in the pack order - if anybody would raise their voice or argue and I just happened to be in the room, she would turn and attack me - she would literally shred my pants and leave bruises all over my legs.
Nope, no dog that I have raised would consider curling a lip at me- I have even held them during vet procedures where they were screaming and flailing and used my face to block their mouth to make the Vet feel comfortable - that is how much I trusted that they would not bite!


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Thanks for replying  so far I'm still wondering if it happens more often with the little poodles.

But another thing to point out is that if my standards are chewing on a bully stick or anything they really like, if I just reach my hand toward them (about 10 inches away) they immediately spit it out or move away from whatever they are chewing on and wag their tails.
No guarding. actually the opposite. they immediately drop it, without me even asking for it. Sometimes I just wanna pet them  and they don't seem like they feel threatened or anything, they just drop it and act real sweet

Ps. Anytime I take away something they like i give them a couple treats to replace it with.

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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Not with Misha, she has never offered to growl or bite. I can take anything from her as can my 2 year old grand baby. She is all about pleasing, all the time.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

None of that stuff with Molly either! She even lets other dogs take her bully stick without a growl or snap! Her friend Pepe does this all the time, and what's so cute about it , is he runs away with it, and if Molly doesn't chase him, he brings it back and drops it in front of her to give it back!

I really think it's how you socialize them when they are very young,how you teach them to be handled/touched and that they learn to trust that no will hurt/harm them!
Unfortunately you hear about snappy little dogs because usually they are considered so 'harmless', people let them get away with bad behaviors that you would never allow a large dog to do!


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## Dallasminis (Feb 6, 2011)

Indie and Jack would NEVER growl or bite. Lady growls to let you know she doesn't want you to do whatever....she would never bite though, sort of a "don't DO that" growl...she is skittish, the other two, no.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Lou said:


> Thanks for replying  so far I'm still wondering if it happens more often with the little poodles.
> 
> But another thing to point out is that if my standards are chewing on a bully stick or anything they really like, if I just reach my hand toward them (about 10 inches away) they immediately spit it out or move away from whatever they are chewing on and wag their tails.
> No guarding. actually the opposite. they immediately drop it, without me even asking for it. Sometimes I just wanna pet them  and they don't seem like they feel threatened or anything, they just drop it and act real sweet
> ...


I think what you are trying to get at here is do small dog owners let their dogs get away with being brats more because they are small and can't do that much harm. Maybe - at least that is what people say, but maybe a novice owner, but not a dog savvy one. 
What I have noticed amongst other little dog owners that I know though is that often let them get away with not being housebroken, and I think that is really outrageous - I can't tell you how many times we have gone on play dates and seen people's carpeting mottled with pee stains, or they will come over here and their little brats immediately poop on my rug!
I mean really, I treat my dogs like royalty, but the things I firmly demand of them is "don't ruin my stuff, and don't bite me", and I don't think that is too much to ask for a life of luxury and pampering to their every desire!
So no, it's not something inherently wrong with small dogs or small poodles - it is something wrong with some owners, no matter what breed or size dog that they have!


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

wow ...little ones can't do that much damage so they get away with stuff and maybe it escalates...Makes sense!
I appreciate the responses, hope we keep getting more. 


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Lou said:


> wow ...little ones can't do that much damage so they get away with stuff and maybe it escalates...Makes sense!
> I appreciate the responses, hope we keep getting more.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Sure, how many people would have responded STRONGLY as I did when 1.5 pound ball of fluff Taylee snapped at them her first day home? Well, she grew up as a true alpha amongst dogs, but she never, no matter the circumstance, ever even raised a lip to another human being again- she was my belly-up, listened like she was on remote control heart dog - but I could easily see how she could have been a little monster if she had landed in a different, less experienced home!


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

I had a GSD and miniature schnauzer before. They never growled at anyone. Now I have a mini poodle. He came to us when he was 9 wks old. When he was young, he growled at me and my husband when we tried to move him when he was sleeping. He never snapped at us. He never attempted to bite but he did growl. I corrected him and he has learned what to expect from his humans. 

To be honest, I was a little shocked when he displayed that kind of behavior because he's the first puppy that I got from a reputable breeder. He's a very good dog but he's not an easy one and definitely not the puppy for a first time dog owner.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

My dogs have never growled or snapped at me or at any human. The only time I've ever heard them growl or snap is at another dog, and that has always been (IMO) appropriate dog-to-dog communication. For example, we have a poodle and her owner visiting right now and sleeping in my spare bedroom. A couple of days ago, the poodle wandered into my bedroom while Cammie and I were still in bed. The visiting dog put her front legs up on the bed to say hello. Well the bed is Cammie's territory and visiting dogs are not welcome! She delivered a sharp bark and a snap in the direction of the intruding dog and the message was very clear. The visiting dog retreated immediately. If this had been a new dog that was going to be living with us permanently, I would have corrected Cammie and let her know that everyone is welcome on the bed. But I didn't feel that it was necessary to welcome a visiting dog on to my bed, so I let Cammie's reprimand stand.

Lou -- Your dogs sound like they are exceptionally sweet! They'd probably welcome anyone and everyone into their house!


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I think the discussion based on the "variety" of poodle will get lots of input. However, it gets back to the basics. If you have a well bred poodle where the breeder bred for temperament, etc. in addition to the other breed standard attributes, it won't matter. If you get a dog from a breeder where they are more concerned about color or size, maybe. Lots of the BYB would produce poodles, IMO, that are snappy or growly, or basically not a solid temperament.

In my neighborhood I can think of 2 standard poodles that have growled at other dogs, snapped at one, and are generally a bit over zealous. I don't know where they got the dogs, but I would think that breeding plays into that.

I also think that from a training perspective, if you dote on a dog, treat them like babies, etc. (c'mon, we all have) which is easier on smaller poodles, that can backfire on you too and bring on many behaviors that are frowned upon. So, I would think that the question would be the kind of training and behaviors are reinforced. I think generally one associates with the very small dogs (poodles included) the tendency to be the barkers, growlers, biters, but I would not classify that as a characteristic the dog comes with. I would bet it is one that is developed over time and points back to how dogs are treated from the time they are a pup.

I know people who walk around with their "smaller" poodles and treat them like young children, and don't see that as much with larger dogs since it's more difficult. I am not saying the owners create dogs that growl or bite -- there are many reasons and I am not a dog trainer. I just think that it's easy to compare behaviors based on the size of a dog --- but I do think the owners play a huge part, too.

So, before the discussion gets overly tilted to the "small dog syndrome" I would like people to consider some of the above. None of my poodles have been biters or growlers and I have had one toy and 2 miniatures. Pet shop dogs, BYBs and people who just decide they want to breed a dog --- well, I think temperament is the first to be compromised.

Just my opinion, of course....


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Yes, Lou's dogs do sound exceptionally sweet; also I wanted to just plug my support here for people who do have to work on problems like growling, snapping, resource guarding and similar issues. My dogs don't do any of those things but I've never done anything special with them to prevent that, they are just naturally hakuna matata  It's like my kids, altho we have lots of discussions and cheerfully disagree with each other if applicable, they've never screamed at me or defied me or gotten involved in anything scary; they are just naturally happy-go-lucky kids. But I feel for parents who have had more challenges than me and freely admit it's not my skill! Just luck of the draw  Same with dogs who have more challenges than mine. And I take my hat off to those who are doing their best to meet those challenges.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

peppersb said:


> My dogs have never growled or snapped at me or at any human. The only time I've ever heard them growl or snap is at another dog, and that has always been (IMO) appropriate dog-to-dog communication. For example, we have a poodle and her owner visiting right now and sleeping in my spare bedroom. A couple of days ago, the poodle wandered into my bedroom while Cammie and I were still in bed. The visiting dog put her front legs up on the bed to say hello. Well the bed is Cammie's territory and visiting dogs are not welcome! She delivered a sharp bark and a snap in the direction of the intruding dog and the message was very clear. The visiting dog retreated immediately. If this had been a new dog that was going to be living with us permanently, I would have corrected Cammie and let her know that everyone is welcome on the bed. But I didn't feel that it was necessary to welcome a visiting dog on to my bed, so I let Cammie's reprimand stand.
> 
> Lou -- Your dogs sound like they are exceptionally sweet! They'd probably welcome anyone and everyone into their house!


Thanks dear! But well.... Ring the doorbell or knock on the door and they sound like big mean Rottweilers or something!! 
But as soon as I welcome the person into the house with a big high pitched "hi !!" and a "it's ok" ... Then the poodles are all happy and excited to greet the person.

They will let strangers know there are dogs defending the property  lol but they are super sweet once they know the person is not gonna harm us/them  all I have to say is "it's ok Lou, it's ok Apollo" and they relax.




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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Lou said:


> Thanks for replying  so far I'm still wondering if it happens more often with the little poodles.
> 
> But another thing to point out is that if my standards are chewing on a bully stick or anything they really like, if I just reach my hand toward them (about 10 inches away) they immediately spit it out or move away from whatever they are chewing on and wag their tails.
> No guarding. actually the opposite. they immediately drop it, without me even asking for it. Sometimes I just wanna pet them  and they don't seem like they feel threatened or anything, they just drop it and act real sweet
> ...


I think you are lucky that the dogs you took bullys away from let you. I can think of 2 that I know (spoos) that would not be so kind to you and one is a 70 lb spoo. Depends on the dog. My dogs (smaller dogs) always gave me anything of theirs I wanted and, I did not have to give them something in replace of what I took either.


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## ChantersMom (Aug 20, 2012)

Chanter, our spoo only growls when I brush his legs and undercarriage. I can pretty well do anything (take food away, which I don't b/c that is mean), toys etc and he doesn't do anything. I can reach deep into his mouth and get that nasty bit of something away and there is no growling. But the leg brushing, he doesn't like...


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Actually, as an afterthought, it seems appropriate to ask that question to breeders of spoos, mpoos or tpoos that may be on the forum. I would like to hear from them if they believe one variety has a tendency towards this or that more than another. I know we have spoo breeders, but not sure if there are mpoo or tpoo breeders offhand. That would be a good thread!


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Indiana said:


> Yes, Lou's dogs do sound exceptionally sweet; also I wanted to just plug my support here for people who do have to work on problems like growling, snapping, resource guarding and similar issues. My dogs don't do any of those things but I've never done anything special with them to prevent that, they are just naturally hakuna matata  It's like my kids, altho we have lots of discussions and cheerfully disagree with each other if applicable, they've never screamed at me or defied me or gotten involved in anything scary; they are just naturally happy-go-lucky kids. But I feel for parents who have had more challenges than me and freely admit it's not my skill! Just luck of the draw  Same with dogs who have more challenges than mine. And I take my hat off to those who are doing their best to meet those challenges.


I do too Indiana, thanks for saying that. All of us deal with challenges and difficulties at one point or another , that's life. and I believe it's tough sometimes. I wish the best to everyone, always 


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

Jazz, at 13 months, has never growled or snapped at me, and I've taken raw chicken from her without a problem. She does mock-growl when she's harassing poor Luke (who really should just snap at her and put her in her place, but he's too old and gentle), but the only real growl came once during the night, when she heard something out of order in the house, so that was totally appropriate. She barks at anything unusual outside but quiets immediately when she's told to. On occasion, when I'm brushing her teeth, she has lifted her lips, as if to say, "Hmmm, look at all these sharp teeth I have in here," but I think she's just feeling the toothpaste. Certainly she has never tried to use those teeth on me.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Growling/barking at other dogs while playing wrestling is not the type of growl I was thinking about when I made this thread. In my opinion that's part of the fun when they play hard. I meant poodles growling, snarling, barking and/or biting - directed at their parents/owners.
I also think it's actually a good thing if Lou or Apollo growl to let me know someone is trying to come in the house or something like that! But not if they snarl/growl aggressively at me.



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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

liljaker said:


> I think you are lucky that the dogs you took bullys away from let you. I can think of 2 that I know (spoos) that would not be so kind to you and one is a 70 lb spoo. Depends on the dog. My dogs (smaller dogs) always gave me anything of theirs I wanted and, I did not have to give them something in replace of what I took either.


I dont Have To give something back if I take the bully stick away. I only do it to avoid causing them to start walking away from me with it when I go to grab the bully stick. I hear some dogs that never guarded their bully sticks before started walking away with it every time their owner went to get it, as if They're saying "Don't take it from me, I'm enjoying it" . Taking it away makes them sad so I only give treats to avoid starting an unwanted behavior, cause I would hate having to chase my dogs, i taught them: "you don't run from momma, bring it here" for that exact reason. So I just think replacing the bully sticks with a couple training treats is just good habit.


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## pgr8dnlvr (Aug 7, 2011)

I'm surprised (and a bit disheartened) that there hasn't been more response from toy owners to this thread. I have a toy that I love (of coarse), but she has absolutely been a challenge. Even at close to 8 weeks she is/was a resource guarder . We worked hard though to try to get/keep it under control. 

A week or two ago, my husband decided to tease my very overly hungry, and un excercised girl with a pigs ear. I chastised hubby and let the dog have her ear. Not five minutes later I hear my 10 year old daughter SCREAMING. She had sat next to Lucy and was going to give her a cuddle and ended up getting bit in the face hard enough that blood was drawn.  Very depressing and disheartening to me. All that work and now I have to go back to square one...

The house training has also been a huge test of patience. Every dog I've had (never toys) I trained right away, no problems, no challenge. This toy poodle? She took over a year to get it (she wasn't having accidents all the time but one every day or two, sometimes she'd go a week or two with nothing). Hell, she still sneaks a poop in on some nights with my daughter, but thankfully it seems to be months in between now instead of days.

I always used to blame "toy dog syndrome" on owners. But now I honestly feel that sometimes yes, breeding absolutely enters in on some dogs... .

Rebecca

PS - I work at a vet clinic, we have about 4 standard poodle clients, all backyard bred, all are fearfull and "would be" fear biters. I absolutely believe that there are lots of backyard bred lines of standards with this temperment.


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## Ciscley (Jul 16, 2013)

Lou said:


> I also think it's actually a good thing if Lou or Apollo growl to let me know someone is trying to come in the house or something like that! But not if they snarl/growl aggressively at me.


I think this is a key point for me when people rave about how "naturally" good their dogs are (not singling anyone out here, it's just a general anti-training comment I get from people - "Oh, well, *I* don't have to positive train my dogs because I'm ALPHA and they know to XYZ") - it is what YOU perceive to be an issue that you notice with other dogs and which you don't allow with your dogs - or any pet animals for that matter - that they become good at.

I always thought it was disgusting when Martha Stewart had her cats on her tables. And she's freaking MARTHA. I know her house is better cared for and generally cleaner than mine, but no cat paws are allowed on tables or counters here. I didn't spray bottle the cats or set booby traps, etc. I was just consistent about immediately removing the cats from those surfaces and NEVER rewarding them by petting or giving attention when they ever did get on them as kittens.

Same thing with dogs. What YOU are consistent about, *IF* your dog has no underlying temperment issues and *IF* everyone else in the dog's life is also consistent (hard to be 100% when you have children or a rescued dog) then the dog will behave the way you think they should. But that doesn't mean I'm going to think they are the most well behaved darling's ever.

For example, I think dog's barking when people approach my house is a NUISANCE and I would put it a million times above a toy barking at a person who grabs her too quickly or steps on her. The dog is not there to guard my house, the house does not belong to the dog, it belongs to me and anything beyond a happy, Hi! Who are You? Can I meet you? kind of yippy bark is bad behavior. IMO.

This is just my way of saying growling, etc, is no worse and no different than a million other dog good citizen behaviors. So I'm not going to over-react to a person with a growly dog or congratulate a person with a non-growly dog who barks or face licks or can't walk in a heel and do a reliable come on command, etc. Those are all equally important life skills and we all need to continually reinforce good behaviors and use non-threatening dog training to improve the ones we personally dislike.


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## Carrie-e (Oct 23, 2012)

My first standard used to guard food and would growl if you wanted to take it away,but I was very inexperienced then,but he never made any attempt to bite or snarl ever,my second standard used to growl if people put their feet near him,he had a thing about feet,but again never snarled or bit,my third standard I have now I have never herd him growl either at people or other dogs,he is 1 and has an amazing temperament. I had a toy poodle who growled at other dogs if they were unfriendly to him,but was good with dogs who were ok with him,but never growled at people ever or snapped. My mini pup play growls and sometimes growls at the brush! She licks me while I'm brushing her but will try and bite the brush sometimes! She has never growled or snarled in a bad way. Don't think it's anything to do with size of poodle,think any dog of any breed can growl,sometimes it's the only way they can express their unhappiness about a situation,doesn't mean they are vicious.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Ciscley said:


> I think this is a key point for me when people rave about how "naturally" good their dogs are (not singling anyone out here, it's just a general anti-training comment I get from people - "Oh, well, *I* don't have to positive train my dogs because I'm ALPHA and they know to XYZ") - it is what YOU perceive to be an issue that you notice with other dogs and which you don't allow with your dogs - or any pet animals for that matter - that they become good at.
> 
> I always thought it was disgusting when Martha Stewart had her cats on her tables. And she's freaking MARTHA. I know her house is better cared for and generally cleaner than mine, but no cat paws are allowed on tables or counters here. I didn't spray bottle the cats or set booby traps, etc. I was just consistent about immediately removing the cats from those surfaces and NEVER rewarding them by petting or giving attention when they ever did get on them as kittens.
> 
> ...


my dogs bark when someone knocks on the door or aproaches the backyard gates, but they are friendly and once the person comes in they dont bark anymore. They may bark just to let me know someone is out there, doesnt have anything to do with aggression.


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## poodlecrazy51 (Dec 31, 2012)

*the standard for standards*

My vet told me, that he has been bitten more times by a standard than any other breed. That is very disheartening. And not my experience with 3 of them in 30 years at all. Our newest spoo, our 4th, and a puppy, is a different story. The lesson I just learned: I need to watch out for that impulse breeder, that sees a new color, or a new trend, for some breed or mix of a dog that is the popular fad. I need to pay better attention to my instincts and not my heart, in picking a puppy. I need to be doubtful when a breeder is telling me things that are too good to be true. That are absolutes, like, I have NEVER had a puppy returned, I have Never had any health issues, I have Never had a puppy have a bad experience shipping in cargo. All my pups are all confident. We all need to talk to each other, and name names, of those breeders that are less than ethical and not heeding temperament as well as health issues. I would love to see a temperament registry like we have health registries...OFA, PHR. We just went through a terrible heartbreaking situation with our puppy. I knew in the first hour of having her, that she was not normal. At 2 wks old, I was absolutely sure she was not normal, and going to be a fearful, unpredictable dog, that was so independent, she wouldn't respond to us. I felt a strong instinct to return her to her breeder. My family objected...saying, "you are so good with animals, you can fix her". Well, I tried for 6 months and $2000 spent on behaviorists, trainers, calming equipment, reading, researching, travelling with her 100's of miles trying everything. The breeder completely blew me off, making it all my fault and that I ruined this perfect puppy. She said I gave you my pick of the litter, in temperament and conformation. She not only was diagnosed, high risk for fear biting, but was built very poorly, including cowhocks and roached back. She has a host of health issues, huge vet bills. I wish, as soon as people see any growling in a very young puppy, they would recognize this is not normal, for a standard poodle. Have them evaluated by a specialist, a behaviorist. Poodles should be confident and can even be bold. But social, watch dogs and never guard dogs. Some can be a bit reserved at first meeting someone, but within a minute of looking them over, should be welcoming. Not fearful, shy, aggressive, overly submissive, territorial (toy and food guarding) ,etc. It turns out, this breeder is basically a puppy mill in sheeps clothing. 4 litters at a time, 30-40 puppies at a time. dams being rebreed at their next heat. Everyone kept in a kennel building. Bragging about her rich colors. Definitely this puppy was not socialized. She was scared to death of people, noises, new objects, even the breezes. With reactive behavior escalating by the month. If we all returned these puppies, demanded our money back, (which is extremely difficult to do, believe me, we didn't, but a trainer now has ours, so she can keep the puppy stable and from harming anyone), that breeder would not be profitable enough. It is very evident, this breeder we trusted had money as her only concern, not the puppy or us. If we had a registry, where we could lodge our problems with a breeder, in a public way, she would eventually have fewer and fewer puppy buyers and figure out, she should hatch fewer and fewer puppies. Maybe she would start selling socks, instead of living things. We should hand the breeder a contract of our own for her to sign. Sorry, I am angry that I stupidly trusted this breeder and all her smooth talking. I don't even feel I can safely name her here, for fear of retribution, from her or others. ( But I doubt she would waste her time talking to all us poodle lovers, she is busy selling her product.) I am sure, statistically, that there is a percentage of good puppies she has sold. But how many of us, that just want a poo to love, have one that is causing us concern, expenses, having to "manage" it so it doesn't do any harm? I really believe, no poodle, toy, miniature, or standard, should have the personality that would growl, or guard or snap at their humans, any human. They are known for being people dogs. But we can't raise them like children. They must be kindly shown, in a very positive, reward based method, that we are in charge, we are the leaders. An exercised dog, that is a trained dog, is a happy dog in a happy home. (and I don't mean we are the alpha pack leader, I don't really believe that is the right approach, as do the experts that first laid out that training technique, they found, it isn't really effective nor appropriate for our domestic canines.). This is JMHO, and I mean no offense for anyone with an opposing view. I am basing my opinions on my life experiences, and what has worked for me and not worked for me. I have just learned one of the most horrendous, rip my heart out, watch my 6 year old grandson cry, painful lesson, and my only hope is to prevent even one other person from going through what I went through with my family. In the quarter horse industry, we have a saying, Buyer beware. And we have contracts, that go both ways, that protect the buyer and the seller...jmho.


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## Carrie-e (Oct 23, 2012)

I'm so sorry poodle crazy that you have had this experience. Having owned standards before you know of course how they should be,it is such a sad story.


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## Ciscley (Jul 16, 2013)

> my dogs bark when someone knocks on the door or aproaches the backyard gates, but they are friendly and once the person comes in they dont bark anymore. They may bark just to let me know someone is out there, doesnt have anything to do with aggression.


Absolutely, the barking doesn't have to have anything to do with aggression was my point. Growling at humans doesn't have to have anything to do with aggression either. 

Personally I think the barking you describe is rude and a poorly behaved dog. But I have absolutely no right to criticize your pups, and am not trying to, just giving it as an example of perspective. You think it's a plus and I wouldn't.


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## Ciscley (Jul 16, 2013)

Poodlecrazy51, so sorry for your situation with your puppy. I agree that the fearfulness behind most of the growling we are talking about is definitely an A1 critical thing to be watching out for. As a buyer that's one of the reasons that meeting and interacting with the parent dogs was so important for me - checking what temperament the breeder is focused on.

Sadly, growling tends to be one of the only signs of fearfulness the general public pays attention to, my Danno is text book fearful dog, but because he is timid and extremely gentle in his fear many people actually comment on his behavior as a positive! I'm certainly not complaining, especially when the alternative is so painful as you describe, but I think it's why many people don't recognize the fear in the breeding lines. I've heard people describe it as a "subdued" dog or a "reserved" dog, but a confident and reserved dog is much different than a fearful one.


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

Charlie barks at strangers when they just ignorantly reach out to him to pet him. He doesn't like that so he barks at these selective strangers. I've been taking him a lot now to shop with me and he has been good at allowing people to pet him so I think when he barks at a stranger, there is must be something wrong with the stranger.

Edison loves people, he welcomes people who wants to pet him, kiss him, hug him and take a picture with him. I think this is anxiety thing. He is a people pleaser but I don't like Edison being over familiar with strangers. I don't trust strangers.

Both barks whenever a stranger come near the door. Growls are very rare. I usually the one who growl at them when we play tug. Not sure if this is a good thing but they thought it was fun.

Charlie bit me many moons ago but he is a rescue so he didn't trust me at the time. Obedience training fix that and we're best pals now. I could put my whole finger in his mouth and he'll just lick it or push it out with his tongue.

Edison doesn't bite at all.


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

Lou said:


> Thanks for replying  so far I'm still wondering if it happens more often with the little poodles.
> 
> But another thing to point out is that if my standards are chewing on a bully stick or anything they really like, if I just reach my hand toward them (about 10 inches away) they immediately spit it out or move away from whatever they are chewing on and wag their tails.
> No guarding. actually the opposite. they immediately drop it, without me even asking for it. Sometimes I just wanna pet them  and they don't seem like they feel threatened or anything, they just drop it and act real sweet
> ...


This is exactly the way Charlie and Edison is too. Although I didn't know it means no guarding at all. Lol. I thought they scare at me. Sometimes I look at them just because I want to know what are they doing and they will look at me and spit out the toys out of their mouth. I would say "Carry on, boys!" then walk away. Sometime they would come after me or just carry on. Lol.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

poodlecrazy51 said:


> My vet told me, that he has been bitten more times by a standard than any other breed. That is very disheartening. And not my experience with 3 of them in 30 years at all. Our newest spoo, our 4th, and a puppy, is a different story. The lesson I just learned: I need to watch out for that impulse breeder, that sees a new color, or a new trend, for some breed or mix of a dog that is the popular fad. I need to pay better attention to my instincts and not my heart, in picking a puppy. I need to be doubtful when a breeder is telling me things that are too good to be true. That are absolutes, like, I have NEVER had a puppy returned, I have Never had any health issues, I have Never had a puppy have a bad experience shipping in cargo. All my pups are all confident. We all need to talk to each other, and name names, of those breeders that are less than ethical and not heeding temperament as well as health issues. I would love to see a temperament registry like we have health registries...OFA, PHR. We just went through a terrible heartbreaking situation with our puppy. I knew in the first hour of having her, that she was not normal. At 2 wks old, I was absolutely sure she was not normal, and going to be a fearful, unpredictable dog, that was so independent, she wouldn't respond to us. I felt a strong instinct to return her to her breeder. My family objected...saying, "you are so good with animals, you can fix her". Well, I tried for 6 months and $2000 spent on behaviorists, trainers, calming equipment, reading, researching, travelling with her 100's of miles trying everything. The breeder completely blew me off, making it all my fault and that I ruined this perfect puppy. She said I gave you my pick of the litter, in temperament and conformation. She not only was diagnosed, high risk for fear biting, but was built very poorly, including cowhocks and roached back. She has a host of health issues, huge vet bills. I wish, as soon as people see any growling in a very young puppy, they would recognize this is not normal, for a standard poodle. Have them evaluated by a specialist, a behaviorist. Poodles should be confident and can even be bold. But social, watch dogs and never guard dogs. Some can be a bit reserved at first meeting someone, but within a minute of looking them over, should be welcoming. Not fearful, shy, aggressive, overly submissive, territorial (toy and food guarding) ,etc. It turns out, this breeder is basically a puppy mill in sheeps clothing. 4 litters at a time, 30-40 puppies at a time. dams being rebreed at their next heat. Everyone kept in a kennel building. Bragging about her rich colors. Definitely this puppy was not socialized. She was scared to death of people, noises, new objects, even the breezes. With reactive behavior escalating by the month. If we all returned these puppies, demanded our money back, (which is extremely difficult to do, believe me, we didn't, but a trainer now has ours, so she can keep the puppy stable and from harming anyone), that breeder would not be profitable enough. It is very evident, this breeder we trusted had money as her only concern, not the puppy or us. If we had a registry, where we could lodge our problems with a breeder, in a public way, she would eventually have fewer and fewer puppy buyers and figure out, she should hatch fewer and fewer puppies. Maybe she would start selling socks, instead of living things. We should hand the breeder a contract of our own for her to sign. Sorry, I am angry that I stupidly trusted this breeder and all her smooth talking. I don't even feel I can safely name her here, for fear of retribution, from her or others. ( But I doubt she would waste her time talking to all us poodle lovers, she is busy selling her product.) I am sure, statistically, that there is a percentage of good puppies she has sold. But how many of us, that just want a poo to love, have one that is causing us concern, expenses, having to "manage" it so it doesn't do any harm? I really believe, no poodle, toy, miniature, or standard, should have the personality that would growl, or guard or snap at their humans, any human. They are known for being people dogs. But we can't raise them like children. They must be kindly shown, in a very positive, reward based method, that we are in charge, we are the leaders. An exercised dog, that is a trained dog, is a happy dog in a happy home. (and I don't mean we are the alpha pack leader, I don't really believe that is the right approach, as do the experts that first laid out that training technique, they found, it isn't really effective nor appropriate for our domestic canines.). This is JMHO, and I mean no offense for anyone with an opposing view. I am basing my opinions on my life experiences, and what has worked for me and not worked for me. I have just learned one of the most horrendous, rip my heart out, watch my 6 year old grandson cry, painful lesson, and my only hope is to prevent even one other person from going through what I went through with my family. In the quarter horse industry, we have a saying, Buyer beware. And we have contracts, that go both ways, that protect the buyer and the seller...jmho.


Thanks for a very informative post. I am so sorry for the heartache that you experienced with your poorly bred poodle. I just hate to hear stories like this and like the one about your vet being bitten by poodles.

I just watched a very interesting show called "Dogs Decoded"-- a Nova Nature program. One of the segments examined wolves that were brought up with lots of love and nurturing, like a pet dog. They grew up to display wild behavior like wolves, not at all like dogs. They also looked at the foxes that have been bred in Siberia and concluded that the genetics was much more important than environment in determining how calm or aggressive a fox would become. It appears that there is some solid scientific evidence that genetics plays a bigger role than environment/upbringing. So all the more important to make sure that you get a pup whose parents have the kind of temperament that you want. It is just tragic to see poodles who have questionable temperaments being bred.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Ciscley said:


> Absolutely, the barking doesn't have to have anything to do with aggression was my point. Growling at humans doesn't have to have anything to do with aggression either.
> 
> Personally I think the barking you describe is rude and a poorly behaved dog. But I have absolutely no right to criticize your pups, and am not trying to, just giving it as an example of perspective. You think it's a plus and I wouldn't.


Dear, if my dog barks at the doorbell and I tell her "it's ok" (meaning hubby is home etc.) she stops. I don't think that seems like a poorly behaved dog. 
A poorly behaved dog in my opinion would be one to do things the parent/owner does not want them to do. Or to do something that would bother others.. 
Barking at the doorbell to me is a "at parent/owner's discretion thing" it was something I encouraged, because Lou never barked at all before she turned 1.
It's another benefit of owning large dogs, i feel safe at home that if someone was going to rob my house they'd go away after hearing the thick barks! (The thief doesn't know my dogs are friendly  ) if I wanted Lou to not bark to let me know when someone is here, I'd train her to just come get me, silently. 


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

peppersb said:


> Thanks for a very informative post. I am so sorry for the heartache that you experienced with your poorly bred poodle. I just hate to hear stories like this and like the one about your vet being bitten by poodles.
> 
> I just watched a very interesting show called "Dogs Decoded"-- a Nova Nature program. One of the segments examined wolves that were brought up with lots of love and nurturing, like a pet dog. They grew up to display wild behavior like wolves, not at all like dogs. They also looked at the foxes that have been bred in Siberia and concluded that the genetics was much more important than environment in determining how calm or aggressive a fox would become. It appears that there is some solid scientific evidence that genetics plays a bigger role than environment/upbringing. So all the more important to make sure that you get a pup whose parents have the kind of temperament that you want. It is just tragic to see poodles who have questionable temperaments being bred.


I watched that documentary too!!! It was very very interesting!!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Joelly said:


> This is exactly the way Charlie and Edison is too. Although I didn't know it means no guarding at all. Lol. I thought they scare at me. Sometimes I look at them just because I want to know what are they doing and they will look at me and spit out the toys out of their mouth. I would say "Carry on, boys!" then walk away. Sometime they would come after me or just carry on. Lol.


If I ask my girls what they have, they will bring it over to me, drop it for me to see, and pickit up only if I say ok you can have it! My girls are so wonderful, sometimes I just melt from joy!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Joelly said:


> Charlie barks at strangers when they just ignorantly reach out to him to pet him. He doesn't like that so he barks at these selective strangers. I've been taking him a lot now to shop with me and he has been good at allowing people to pet him so I think when he barks at a stranger, there is must be something wrong with the stranger.
> 
> Edison loves people, he welcomes people who wants to pet him, kiss him, hug him and take a picture with him. I think this is anxiety thing. He is a people pleaser but I don't like Edison being over familiar with strangers. I don't trust strangers.
> 
> ...


It saddens and surprises me how many people will say that they would get their fingers taken off if they tried to brush their dog's teeth - I cannot imagine having to live in fear of harm from my own dog!


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## Carrie-e (Oct 23, 2012)

All the dogs I've ever owned have loved having their teeth cleaned,and the two we've got now run into the kitchen when I get the brushes and toothpaste out! Think they love the taste of the paste!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

poodlecrazy51 said:


> My vet told me, that he has been bitten more times by a standard than any other breed. That is very disheartening. And not my experience with 3 of them in 30 years at all. Our newest spoo, our 4th, and a puppy, is a different story. The lesson I just learned: I need to watch out for that impulse breeder, that sees a new color, or a new trend, for some breed or mix of a dog that is the popular fad. I need to pay better attention to my instincts and not my heart, in picking a puppy. I need to be doubtful when a breeder is telling me things that are too good to be true. That are absolutes, like, I have NEVER had a puppy returned, I have Never had any health issues, I have Never had a puppy have a bad experience shipping in cargo. All my pups are all confident. We all need to talk to each other, and name names, of those breeders that are less than ethical and not heeding temperament as well as health issues. I would love to see a temperament registry like we have health registries...OFA, PHR. We just went through a terrible heartbreaking situation with our puppy. I knew in the first hour of having her, that she was not normal. At 2 wks old, I was absolutely sure she was not normal, and going to be a fearful, unpredictable dog, that was so independent, she wouldn't respond to us. I felt a strong instinct to return her to her breeder. My family objected...saying, "you are so good with animals, you can fix her". Well, I tried for 6 months and $2000 spent on behaviorists, trainers, calming equipment, reading, researching, travelling with her 100's of miles trying everything. The breeder completely blew me off, making it all my fault and that I ruined this perfect puppy. She said I gave you my pick of the litter, in temperament and conformation. She not only was diagnosed, high risk for fear biting, but was built very poorly, including cowhocks and roached back. She has a host of health issues, huge vet bills. I wish, as soon as people see any growling in a very young puppy, they would recognize this is not normal, for a standard poodle. Have them evaluated by a specialist, a behaviorist. Poodles should be confident and can even be bold. But social, watch dogs and never guard dogs. Some can be a bit reserved at first meeting someone, but within a minute of looking them over, should be welcoming. Not fearful, shy, aggressive, overly submissive, territorial (toy and food guarding) ,etc. It turns out, this breeder is basically a puppy mill in sheeps clothing. 4 litters at a time, 30-40 puppies at a time. dams being rebreed at their next heat. Everyone kept in a kennel building. Bragging about her rich colors. Definitely this puppy was not socialized. She was scared to death of people, noises, new objects, even the breezes. With reactive behavior escalating by the month. If we all returned these puppies, demanded our money back, (which is extremely difficult to do, believe me, we didn't, but a trainer now has ours, so she can keep the puppy stable and from harming anyone), that breeder would not be profitable enough. It is very evident, this breeder we trusted had money as her only concern, not the puppy or us. If we had a registry, where we could lodge our problems with a breeder, in a public way, she would eventually have fewer and fewer puppy buyers and figure out, she should hatch fewer and fewer puppies. Maybe she would start selling socks, instead of living things. We should hand the breeder a contract of our own for her to sign. Sorry, I am angry that I stupidly trusted this breeder and all her smooth talking. I don't even feel I can safely name her here, for fear of retribution, from her or others. ( But I doubt she would waste her time talking to all us poodle lovers, she is busy selling her product.) I am sure, statistically, that there is a percentage of good puppies she has sold. But how many of us, that just want a poo to love, have one that is causing us concern, expenses, having to "manage" it so it doesn't do any harm? I really believe, no poodle, toy, miniature, or standard, should have the personality that would growl, or guard or snap at their humans, any human. They are known for being people dogs. But we can't raise them like children. They must be kindly shown, in a very positive, reward based method, that we are in charge, we are the leaders. An exercised dog, that is a trained dog, is a happy dog in a happy home. (and I don't mean we are the alpha pack leader, I don't really believe that is the right approach, as do the experts that first laid out that training technique, they found, it isn't really effective nor appropriate for our domestic canines.). This is JMHO, and I mean no offense for anyone with an opposing view. I am basing my opinions on my life experiences, and what has worked for me and not worked for me. I have just learned one of the most horrendous, rip my heart out, watch my 6 year old grandson cry, painful lesson, and my only hope is to prevent even one other person from going through what I went through with my family. In the quarter horse industry, we have a saying, Buyer beware. And we have contracts, that go both ways, that protect the buyer and the seller...jmho.


I am very sorry that you had to have that sad experience. Thank you for sharing - it may help someone else to avoid doing the same. In fact, pethaps you should put it under the poodle breeder directory section where many people from the general public looking for pups can see it!


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Tiny Poodles said:


> It saddens and surprises me how many people will say that they would get their fingers taken off if they tried to brush their dog's teeth - I cannot imagine having to live in fear of harm from my own dog!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I feel the same way, I am so glad that I can brush their teeth, they even know when it's their turn and step forward toward me when I'm done with the other one.

And I know some people that would say if their dog bit them, they'd take it in the woods and...

I just hope that people that first get a puppy, or specially before getting a dog would research research and study and study! Lots and lots. It may help avoid the sad outcomes. 
In general i just wish these sad stories didn't have to happen... And I'm learning a lot in this thread which helps me understand why



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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

Tiny Poodles said:


> It saddens and surprises me how many people will say that they would get their fingers taken off if they tried to brush their dog's teeth - I cannot imagine having to live in fear of harm from my own dog!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Are you serious? Living in fear of their own dog, that's news to me. I train my dogs that my roof my rule. I punto. 

So far, Charlie and Edison has been very good. A little bit of lack of exercise is due to me having to slave away at work. BUT come Sunday, we usually will use the school yard to run around like crazy, me included.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

My two have never done it either ! I think they learn early to tolerate a lot due to all the grooming that poodle have to stand for. I have only had one dog growl or bite me and it was a rescued Shih tuz and I had only had him a few days.


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

Just a couple of additional comments to my post above. 

We live in the country, the only house on the street, not really isolated but very private. I would never tolerate growling at one of the family or at a visitor, but growling at an intruder would be a very good thing. I also want my dogs to let me know someone is coming. Both will trot to the door and look outside when a car pulls into the driveway. Jazz will bark when someone walks down the street in front of the house or steps up onto the deck. Highly desirable behavior, from my point of view, especially as they settle down immediately when told to.

As for the tooth brushing, I didn't mean to indicate that Jazz was threatening me. Both dogs do enjoy it and follow me into the bathroom when it's time. While Jazz occasionally exposes her teeth, it's never in an aggressive manner, and neither dog has ever made an attempt to get away or keep me from brushing their teeth.

As Lou noted, it's all in the owner's perception of the behavior.


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

JudyD said:


> *While Jazz occasionally exposes her teeth*, it's never in an aggressive manner, and neither dog has ever made an attempt to get away or keep me from brushing their teeth.
> 
> As Lou noted, it's all in the owner's perception of the behavior.


I think Jazz is trying to ask you to brush only the shown teeth. :act-up:


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Joelly said:


> I think Jazz is trying to ask you to brush only the shown teeth. :act-up:


Hehehe  since we are talking about teeth... something my poodles do that makes my heart warm and makes me giggle a lot is:

When they are super happy to see me, or when they are sorry for stepping on my phone (i didn't even complain! Lol) or when I talk really high pitched to the them while i grab and kiss the sides of muzzle... THEY SMILE!!!!!  hehehehe they squint their eyes and show their front teeth while wiggling their entire bootie and wagging their tails !!!! It is the cutest thing I have ever seen in my life, but i've tried so hard to get a picture/video but they do it quickly so it's hard to get a good picture hehehe 
Ps. It doesnt happen all the time, just in special occasions LOL Lou also does it when she is flirting with my friend hehehe she also cover her eyes like a panda bear and lays all over my friend's lap

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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Joelly said:


> Are you serious? Living in fear of their own dog, that's news to me. I train my dogs that my roof my rule. I punto.
> 
> So far, Charlie and Edison has been very good. A little bit of lack of exercise is due to me having to slave away at work. BUT come Sunday, we usually will use the school yard to run around like crazy, me included.


Absolutely - I remember once at the doggie gym someone's JRT grabbed a tissue out of my pocket and stood over it guarding - the owner had to hold a treat over it's head and cautiously sneak her other hand around to get the tissue - her own dog would have bitten her if she had tried to take the tissue away! The same day that dog bit me as I blocked it from biting Tangee!
Last I saw her she( the owner) was pregnant - sure hope that the dog and the baby made it, but I doubt it....


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

I would never allow aggressive behaviour or pottying in the house, small or big dog, but little things...well, I'm guilty of letting bad behaviour slide with small dogs but not with large dogs. I KNOW it's wrong and I know it's bad, but for some reason, I still find myself letting Smiley jump up on me, whereas with my past big poodles, jumping up was a HUGE nono!!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Locket said:


> I would never allow aggressive behaviour or pottying in the house, small or big dog, but little things...well, I'm guilty of letting bad behaviour slide with small dogs but not with large dogs. I KNOW it's wrong and I know it's bad, but for some reason, I still find myself letting Smiley jump up on me, whereas with my past big poodles, jumping up was a HUGE nono!!


Oh my gosh, I never even thought if jumping on me as being bad behavior, but can definitely see how it would be bad for a big dog! 
Oh well - guilty as charged- my little ones are bad dogs lol!


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## Carrie-e (Oct 23, 2012)

I think we are all guilty of that with little dogs Locket. I definitely wish I had trained my toy poodle Toby better. He did lots of naughty things that I let him get away with because he was so small. I feel sorry for Billy my spoo,as he isn't allowed to jump up at people but Tia my mpoo gets away with it. I'm trying to train her not to but it is hard as somehow it doesn't seem a problem whereas huge Billy doing it would be a big old problem!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

JudyD said:


> Just a couple of additional comments to my post above.
> 
> We live in the country, the only house on the street, not really isolated but very private. I would never tolerate growling at one of the family or at a visitor, but growling at an intruder would be a very good thing. I also want my dogs to let me know someone is coming. Both will trot to the door and look outside when a car pulls into the driveway. Jazz will bark when someone walks down the street in front of the house or steps up onto the deck. Highly desirable behavior, from my point of view, especially as they settle down immediately when told to.
> 
> ...


That is true - once was sitting in a cab waiting for the light to change - window open, sun was in my eyes, with Taylee in my lap when an arm reached into the window. - well before I even knew it was happening Taylee turned into a Tasmanian devil and that arm was gone! That, in my opinion is good aggression!


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

As we can see from this thread alone, there are lots of differences in our poodles, not just in the varieties. Some are rescues, some are BYB, some from pet shops, some from breeders who say they are reputable and maybe are not so much, and some from top breeders who breed for temperament FIRST. So, if you take all of that into account, and then the differences in how they were trained and socialized (or not), lifestyles (young children or not; single owners; busy families), to even try to come to some conclusions based on variety (size) would be impossible. Genetics does have a huge part in how our dogs react to situations, as do lots of other factors including how we treat them from the time they are a puppy.


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

Joelly said:


> I think Jazz is trying to ask you to brush only the shown teeth. :act-up:


Hmmm, well, that would be all of them, and a very impressive display it is, too. Many, many, big, sharp, white teeth. If she were to combine that with a growl, an intruder would surely turn tail and run. :biggrin1:


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## sweetheartsrodeo (Sep 19, 2012)

This has been such an informative thread! Both of my poodles are rescues, and Echo is blind as you know. It has been an interesting journey with him. He has been here since mid-May and improved by leaps and bounds. However, he still wants to take other dog's toys and will play growl to get them. When he first got here he would hide food in his bed, and use his nose to push it under stuff this skinning his nose. After much work he no long hides food but still plays a little rough... we are working on that


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Ciscley said:


> Absolutely, the barking doesn't have to have anything to do with aggression was my point. Growling at humans doesn't have to have anything to do with aggression either.
> 
> Personally I think the barking you describe is rude and a poorly behaved dog. But I have absolutely no right to criticize your pups, and am not trying to, just giving it as an example of perspective. You think it's a plus and I wouldn't.


Your dogs don't bark when someone comes to the door?! Seriously I have never had or been to a house with a dog in my life that the dogs don't bark when someone comes to the door - it would not even occur to me that it was possible to train them not to do it (unless it's one of those rare, non-verbal dogs who barks once a year)!


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## rubymom (Apr 24, 2010)

Just wanted to add anther mild manner mpoo to the list! LOL! 3 year old Ruby has such a sweet, trusting temperament, she allows me or the groomer to do anything with no protest whatsoever! Teeth brushing is a breeze! and, Yes, I can take any toy or bully stick from her with no problem at all. Ruby is not a yappy poodle ! (I noted early that Ruby's mom and dad were not yappers either!)
Bottom line.......I think that I lucked out on my girl being blessed with a great temperament! And all the early, varied exposures have simply layered in for a well behaved poodle! Just my opinion!


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## Ellyisme (Jul 17, 2012)

In my grooming experience just looking at poodles and no other breeds, it is the toys that seem to be the most temperamental. I think it is because their owners let them get away with more than the larger poos. Then again, I also groom your dogs, who are absolute angels for grooming, so that skews my opinion a bit. 

That being said, there are some spoos who can be mean. I can almost tell immediately at check-in which dogs are going to be problems by the way their parents act. And there's always the random dog that will act up for grooming *cough*Hibbert*cough*. He can be a real a-hole when he decides to see how far he can push someone before they've had enough.


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## cindyreef (Sep 28, 2012)

Its not so bad when a small dog jumps up on you (kinda cute) but when a big one does, it hurts. 

But seriously, my spoo has never growled at me but he will bark when a car drives in the yard or the doorbell rings. I admit I encourage that. 

I think dogs all have different levels of dominance. Some seem to be born quite submissive. I was worried I would get a submissive dog and it would pee when nervous. My spoo breeder reassured me that he was too dominate for that and he was. When he plays with my sons retriever, after a while my Dex will display his dominance. A little scuffle will break out. No dogs ever get hurt. They just work it out. 
He has never growled at me but when I hit a snarl in a sensitive area while grooming, he will grab my hand sometimes. Not hard and never breaking the skin. Then he will lick and lick my hand and the comb. Im sure he is sorry. I cant reprimand him, because it must of hurt. My heart goes out to him. He is so loving its amazing.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Ellyisme said:


> In my grooming experience just looking at poodles and no other breeds, it is the toys that seem to be the most temperamental. I think it is because their owners let them get away with more than the larger poos. Then again, I also groom your dogs, who are absolute angels for grooming, so that skews my opinion a bit.
> 
> That being said, there are some spoos who can be mean. I can almost tell immediately at check-in which dogs are going to be problems by the way their parents act. And there's always the random dog that will act up for grooming *cough*Hibbert*cough*. He can be a real a-hole when he decides to see how far he can push someone before they've had enough.
> 
> ...



I think it's really cool how u can tell, just by watching the parents interacting!
and random dog?! I think I'm the random mom!!!! meaning random _crazy mom !_with chillaxed poodles LOL By the way we miss u and....
Apollo is not white no more :aetsch: he is some shade of *dirty *blonde -LITERALLY - needs-bathed-asap (I'll bring 'em to ya when you're free)

But anyways :focus: hehhehehe I'm sure your experience with all kinds of different dogs give you a great idea about dogs behaviors in general, and that's pretty awesome. If you feel like it, share some of your personal experience/knowlege with us. I'm still intrigued by this "growling/snarling toward parent-behavior"


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## poodlecrazy51 (Dec 31, 2012)

Tiny poodles. How do I put it in that directory? Where is it? and do you mean that I should name the breeder?


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## poodlecrazy51 (Dec 31, 2012)

tiny poodles, cute post. I think you get to allow your pups to jump on you. It doesn't matter if it isn't right for someone else. My spoos are big. Joon is 26", 67# . So I can't let her jump up on me. But I tap my shoulders, and she will gently
stand up and hold her front legs out so I can take hold of them, she then gives me a full body hug. On occasion, When she really needs me, she will stand up trying so hard to not touch me, asking for a hug, even though I haven't invited her. She is very careful to not hurt me or bump me. She doesn't do it to anyone else, unless they invite her. That works for me.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Lou jumps up and down sometimes, but not to the point of pushing on your chest or anything! just gently stands on back legs and will try to kiss the people she really likes, she won't jump on strangers. and a lot of it has to do with my friends teasing her with a very high pitched voice like saying: "Whats uuuuuuuup Lou-bear!!!!!!!" over and over and rubbing her face with both hands etc... It gets her going! And I just say "whatever" cause I'm tired of correcting and trying to TRAIN MY FRIENDS not to tease Lou cause she gets really excited and happy. For instance she won't jump on me... The problem is Lou is starting to teach Apollo to jump and that's not gonna fly!! LOL  they are just happy friendly pups, but BIG pups, so I have to make sure this doesnt escalate to jumping on others too. 


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

poodlecrazy51 said:


> Tiny poodles. How do I put it in that directory? Where is it? and do you mean that I should name the breeder?


Um, I am not really good at explaining how to use the forum, but I think that the breeder directory is on top of the poodle talk section - at the bottom of that page would be a button to start a new thread- think of a catchy title for it, copy it here and paste it there. Can somebody else explain it more clearly?
If you wish to post the breeder's name is entirely up to you - it certainly could be helpful to others, but then you could take a lot of flack for it too - both from people who might be happy with them and from the breeder them-self if they lurk on the forum.


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## Pluto (Jul 8, 2012)

I am not really sure, but I can say that our Spoo is the most resistant to snarling/growling that I have every seen. Our other dogs have always rough houses, including snarling and growling at each other in play. The first time another dog did that to our Spoo at the park (in full play mode) she tucked her tail, froze, and then sulked back to me and was done playing for the day. Even now, she refuses to play/engage with dogs that make a lot of snarling/growling, though she has been known to let out a bark or two and doesn't begrudge her companions the same.


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

Lou said:


> My Standard poodles never never growl at me, they don't snarl, don't bark at me, don't even give me a dirty look.
> 
> And I read a lot, here on poodle forum, about people's poodles growling, barking and even biting occasionally and I am assuming it's a common thing and that sometimes it's not a major issue.
> 
> ...


Sounds normal to me.

Rick


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## PoodlePowerBC (Feb 25, 2011)

pgr8dnlvr said:


> PS - I work at a vet clinic, we have about 4 standard poodle clients, all backyard bred, all are fearfull and "would be" fear biters. I absolutely believe that there are lots of backyard bred lines of standards with this temperment.


It might be so, but maybe it's because Back-yard breeders just sell their puppies to whoever shows up without asking the right questions? I know when I applied for Russell, the breeder asked whether I had owned a large-breed dog before. She stated that the pups from the litter I was inquiring about tended to be strong-willed and needed a firm hand. She was bang-on. He was one of the most headstrong puppies I've ever raised and he is an absolute gem of an adult! At about 4 months my hubby kept telling me to go easy on the dog because he was just a puppy. I never hit him, but I was firm with him, and made sure if I gave him a command, we followed through on it. It paid off, no growling or snapping now, and anyone can take food out of his mouth. A 3 year old child can help brush his teeth  
So I wonder if he would have turned out as good if he would have been raised by an inexperienced person? 
And I have met a few of the dogs from local BY Breeders, and from talking to the owners, if you have the $ ... you can have the dog! Fancy dogs at fancy prices that have never been to a show or done agility, or been proven in any way. And the price you pay for these pups are ... WOW!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Well, I may be the odd "man" out, but I don't see a little resource guarding in a very young puppy in particular, as poor temperament at all. I see it as absolutely normal animal behavior. And I've studied animal behavior in school and been a professional trainer/behavior consultant for some time, worked primarily with dogs that had behavior that the owners couldn't live with and made house calls to show them new ways of working through the problems successfully. I think resource guarding must be prevented and stopped if it shows it's scary head because that just doesn't work for humans when living with dogs even if it is natural. It can be* very *serious and needs to be turned around or prevented in the first place _but_.... it is normal animal behavior. I can remember a few dogs that were extreme with this and it took a very systematic approach. From an evolutionary standpoint, without resource guarding our very successful domestic dogs wouldn't have lasted for the thousands of years that they have. They couldn't have passed on their survival genes because they'd have starved to death and couldn't breed.

My toy Poodles come from a breeder with a very good reputation and I've seen his dogs, talked to people who have bought his dogs in the past. He's notorious for breeding good temperaments. 

But, Maurice gave a little growl when I went to take something away from him...a chewy bone, I think it was. He has given a short, little grrr when I hurt him brushing through a tangle and kind of jumped at the same time, like, "ouch! Puleeeze." I don't see this as anything worrisome. A growl is simply a communication that they don't like something. Do we expect our human friends, spouses or children to never voice displeasure at something? Yes, growling can be a threat as well, a serious "Stop doing what you're doing because in about 3 seconds, I might escalate to a bite!" Or it can evolve into it.

We see tiny puppies, still with their mom and siblings growl at each other when trying to eat or get priority access to something. It's absolutely natural to work things out this way.

With Maurice, these couple of vocalizations are seemingly coming to be history. And why I say this is because I have been proving to him that the scary things I do, like hurt him pulling hair out of his ears, combing burrs out of his hair, taking away a fabulous, tasty bone is actually going to pay off big time...that the yucky thing is really not going to be so bad after all. I have taught him to "give", to "leave it", "drop it" and retrieving is on it's way. I've traded him when I have to take away something he loves and he hasn't had any issues since that first time. But since there's always potential, I will continue to get him into the habit of believing me that he's not going to lose out...not in the end. It's really always going to be a win, win for him.

The prevention of any escalation can and should be carried out with puppies because you don't know if they're going to be automatically fine with taking things away or not so fine. Good temperament doesn't mean that a puppy is not going to be a dog with behaviors that are dog behavior. That's why I always recommend going through little exercises to prevent resource guarding from turning into something problematic. You may not have ever had to do this. I've had dogs in the past where I didn't know this and didn't do anything in particular and they were fine. But different dogs display different levels of instinctive behavior, even if they're Poodles that have been selectively bred to get along so exceptionally well with humans. Instincts can't be eradicated. They may be occluded, but they're still in there.

And I absolutely don't recommend a scolding "correction" or a physical one, force of any kind with this kind of behavior. This is where people have gone wrong when they called on me to fix their vicious dogs. Again, not every dog is going to wind up being vicious with the use of force or compulsion. But many will. This is not a case of being higher ranked than the dog and taking something away from him is your right. No. Even in wild dogs that do have a hierarchy, the alpha does not take food away from another dog, once in possession. If on a rare occasion he does, it is acceptable protocol for the lower ranking dog/wolf to object and fight for his food or other resource. So, thinking that you're of a higher status, makes no sense in the way dogs operate. Teaching them that what we do that they don't love, is actually going to be a good thing is what we need to do. Since dogs have evolved with humans, probably a convergent evolution, they have come to understand and get along with people very well, as we know. But there are still those instincts in there too.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Pluto said:


> I am not really sure, but I can say that our Spoo is the most resistant to snarling/growling that I have every seen. Our other dogs have always rough houses, including snarling and growling at each other in play. The first time another dog did that to our Spoo at the park (in full play mode) she tucked her tail, froze, and then sulked back to me and was done playing for the day. Even now, she refuses to play/engage with dogs that make a lot of snarling/growling, though she has been known to let out a bark or two and doesn't begrudge her companions the same.


I don't think that snarling and growling with other dogs - in play, or as in "don't get close to me while I am sleeping" is aggression, but normal communication - my girls do that all day long to one another, yet they do not fight, and they would sooner die then raise a lip to a human!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

PoodlePowerBC said:


> It might be so, but maybe it's because Back-yard breeders just sell their puppies to whoever shows up without asking the right questions? I know when I applied for Russell, the breeder asked whether I had owned a large-breed dog before. She stated that the pups from the litter I was inquiring about tended to be strong-willed and needed a firm hand. She was bang-on. He was one of the most headstrong puppies I've ever raised and he is an absolute gem of an adult! At about 4 months my hubby kept telling me to go easy on the dog because he was just a puppy. I never hit him, but I was firm with him, and made sure if I gave him a command, we followed through on it. It paid off, no growling or snapping now, and anyone can take food out of his mouth. A 3 year old child can help brush his teeth
> So I wonder if he would have turned out as good if he would have been raised by an inexperienced person?
> And I have met a few of the dogs from local BY Breeders, and from talking to the owners, if you have the $ ... you can have the dog! Fancy dogs at fancy prices that have never been to a show or done agility, or been proven in any way. And the price you pay for these pups are ... WOW!


Excellent Point!! I firmly believe that a couple of my girls would have turned out to be horrible dogs in less experienced homes!


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Excellent Point!! I firmly believe that a couple of my girls would have turned out to be horrible dogs in less experienced homes!


Probably would have turned out like Pippin... 

Me, I blame us as owners. We have a pup with a pedigree as long as your arm, multi champs, lovely (dog) parents, but sadly... totally inexperienced owners who are now trying to undo the problems they caused by letting her get away with too much and did not always act responsibly due to genuine ignorance. 

Pippin loves 99.9% of people but she has bitten one person (a groomer) when she was 4 months old (I'm still getting the dog over the trauma of that whole situation), has snarled at the vet (not lately), and has snarled at my husband. We're working on this of course, it's not a case of tolerating it or thinking it is acceptable, it is an "OMG where did that come from and what do we do?" thing! I'd trust her with anyone else including children (who she absolutely loves), but she still takes liberties with my husband, her slave. She has never snapped, snarled or growled at anyone else - if she doesn't like them, she avoids them and we take our cue from her as to whether they pet her or not. Socialising her was probably the one thing we got right! 

And we are not stupid, read up a huge amount before getting her, checked out the breeder, sire and dam, spoke to our vet at length etc etc - and still were totally overwhelmed within the first 3 months with this excitable, intelligent, TINY little thing that I nearly had a breakdown and seriously considered sending her back to the breeder.

I would like to say that reading and research are fine - except you can get totally confused by different approaches in different books. But _nothing _can replace experience. We called someone in to help us which was a God-send, and I've benefitted from advice on here, but if I had another dog I'd do things a WHOLE lot differently!

So I guess I'm in the "owner at fault irrespective of size of dog" camp!! LOL


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Manxcat said:


> Probably would have turned out like Pippin...
> 
> Me, I blame us as owners. We have a pup with a pedigree as long as your arm, multi champs, lovely (dog) parents, but sadly... totally inexperienced owners who are now trying to undo the problems they caused by letting her get away with too much and did not always act responsibly due to genuine ignorance.
> 
> ...


Well, you know we can't be born knowing everything - you have to experience things to learn, but I think that you have a healthy attitude, you are a great owner, and I am sure that you will be even better on your next go round! It's the people who blame the dog ("he's spiteful", he's stubborn") who never learn, never get any better, and are truly the ones at fault for bad dogs (and the poor dogs usually pay the price getting dumped at the shelter)


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I think this just shows that there is not one variety more prone to one behavior than another although people immediately think of the toy breed as having more "issues", then minis and then spoos. It sounds like most of the "issues" are a result of many other things including us, as owners, playing a huge role in whether they develop at all (or not).


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## PoodlePowerBC (Feb 25, 2011)

Manxcat said:


> Probably would have turned out like Pippin...
> 
> I would like to say that reading and research are fine - except you can get totally confused by different approaches in different books. But _nothing _can replace experience. We called someone in to help us which was a God-send, and I've benefitted from advice on here, but if I had another dog I'd do things a WHOLE lot differently!


Good point!
My last spoo Roscoe was from a BYB that I believe breeds for the bucks. I had previously only owned rescues, and small ones at that. Roscoe was a real learning experience, let me tell you! And the "breeder" was NO HELP AT ALL!! I truly believe my experience with Roscoe is the reason I was so consistent with Russell, and so Russell is a well mannered, properly trained pal. I know I did things a lot differently the second time around.


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

peppersb said:


> I just watched a very interesting show called "Dogs Decoded"-- a Nova Nature program. One of the segments examined wolves that were brought up with lots of love and nurturing, like a pet dog. They grew up to display wild behavior like wolves, not at all like dogs. They also looked at the foxes that have been bred in Siberia and concluded that the genetics was much more important than environment in determining how calm or aggressive a fox would become. It appears that there is some solid scientific evidence that genetics plays a bigger role than environment/upbringing. So all the more important to make sure that you get a pup whose parents have the kind of temperament that you want. It is just tragic to see poodles who have questionable temperaments being bred.


Thank you for that post!

Ive been studying animal behavior as an amateur enthusiast for years, so I am completely aware of the power of genes to influence behavior. (Not even just in animals, but in people too.) Ive seen the show you are talking about. In fact I was searching for it on youtube just two nights ago. That is powerful to watch, and demolishes the idea that aggressive temperament is "all in how they are raised". Loved the part where the wolf wants her sandwich and she tells him "NO!". :laugh:
And the foxes that resulted from a few generations of breeding the most aggressive ones.. They are like Tasmanian Devils! :devil:

I couldnt find the show two nights ago, but now that I know what its called, I did. For anyone who wants to see it, it is here:






The fox segment starts around 35:25.

I would think most people who have two or more kids also get quite an education in how different individuals can be "out of the box".


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## Pluto (Jul 8, 2012)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I don't think that snarling and growling with other dogs - in play, or as in "don't get close to me while I am sleeping" is aggression, but normal communication - my girls do that all day long to one another, yet they do not fight, and they would sooner die then raise a lip to a human!


I agree, I just found it interesting that it was so intimidating to her that she absolutely would not engage with a dog that vocalized that way for months. She has definitely gotten more confident.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Interesting thread. I have a toy. I do let him get away with something things I never would have allowed from my Aussie. He does get on furniture. I allow this from him because he is small it does no harm and it is a safe refuge for him from other dogs or people stepping on him. He also does occasionally jump up on me. I send him mixed signals on this though because if I feel there is a dangerous situation I will pick him up as he jumps on me.

Swizzle has excellent bite inhibition but he did once nip the groomer one of the first times she groomed Him. I was concerned and asked the vet about it. He said Swizzle was one of the least aggressive dogs he had ever seen and if he nipped the groomer it was her fault! Nevertheless I worked diligently in getting him use to the grooming process and when she nicked his private area last year he did not retaliate. There was also one time when he was a puppy when I took a bone away from him and he growled for a split second. There was a resource guarding thread on here at the time so I started playing the swop game and teaching him a strong leave it. I remember at the time I wasn't sure if it was a play growl or a real one but I decided it was better to be on the safe side. He will occasionally growl at something in the woods which is understandable as we have had coyote, bear ect. Other than that he has not growled at all except play growls for tug games except for yesterday. Swizzle is good at the groomer now though occasionally he will squirm. She had him in a crate and her vet tech came in and Swizzle started growling at him. The groomer told me as this was very unusual for Swizzle. I have felt him all up and checked his ears and everything seems OK. Why would he growl at just that one guy? She said other people came in and there was not a peep out of him. I do think a lot of poor dog behavior is from poor training usually but I have seen poorly bred dogs have issues too. I do think a toy is more challenging than larger dogs to potty train as it took me longer than I expected even though the vet warned me to expect this.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CT Girl said:


> Interesting thread. I have a toy. I do let him get away with something things I never would have allowed from my Aussie. He does get on furniture. I allow this from him because he is small it does no harm and it is a safe refuge for him from other dogs or people stepping on him. He also does occasionally jump up on me. I send him mixed signals on this though because if I feel there is a dangerous situation I will pick him up as he jumps on me.
> 
> Swizzle has excellent bite inhibition but he did once nip the groomer one of the first times she groomed Him. I was concerned and asked the vet about it. He said Swizzle was one of the least aggressive dogs he had ever seen and if he nipped the groomer it was her fault! Nevertheless I worked diligently in getting him use to the grooming process and when she nicked his private area last year he did not retaliate. There was also one time when he was a puppy when I took a bone away from him and he growled for a split second. There was a resource guarding thread on here at the time so I started playing the swop game and teaching him a strong leave it. I remember at the time I wasn't sure if it was a play growl or a real one but I decided it was better to be on the safe side. He will occasionally growl at something in the woods which is understandable as we have had coyote, bear ect. Other than that he has not growled at all except play growls for tug games except for yesterday. Swizzle is good at the groomer now though occasionally he will squirm. She had him in a crate and her vet tech came in and Swizzle started growling at him. The groomer told me as this was very unusual for Swizzle. I have felt him all up and checked his ears and everything seems OK. Why would he growl at just that one guy? She said other people came in and there was not a peep out of him. I do think a lot of poor dog behavior is from poor training usually but I have seen poorly bred dogs have issues too. I do think a toy is more challenging than larger dogs to potty train as it took me longer than I expected even though the vet warned me to expect this.


Maybe because he was in his crate, he felt that the tech was sneaking up on him in his private space?


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I am really puzzled because other people came to get their dogs. Maybe the vet tech was close to his crate. As he is her vet tech she probably let him in that area and usually people stay more in the front. Lou, my husband, thinks he may have had a lab coat on. Swizzle is always good at the vet but I am with him. Swizzle has been fine since his visit so I don't think he was feeling poorly.


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## Ellyisme (Jul 17, 2012)

Lou said:


> I think it's really cool how u can tell, just by watching the parents interacting!
> and random dog?! I think I'm the random mom!!!! meaning random _crazy mom !_with chillaxed poodles LOL By the way we miss u and....
> Apollo is not white no more :aetsch: he is some shade of *dirty *blonde -LITERALLY - needs-bathed-asap (I'll bring 'em to ya when you're free)
> 
> But anyways :focus: hehhehehe I'm sure your experience with all kinds of different dogs give you a great idea about dogs behaviors in general, and that's pretty awesome. If you feel like it, share some of your personal experience/knowlege with us. I'm still intrigued by this "growling/snarling toward parent-behavior"


Want to get the, groomed next week sometime? You can text me if you like. 


It's not really growling and snarling towards the PP, it's more of the PP's insecurity with the dog. The dogs feed off this lack of confidence and it doesn't know how to trust me when I need them to. It takes a lot of work on my end and the PP's end to help them. I get that their dog is their baby (mine is too!), but when they treat them like actual babies and don't let the dogs gain their own understanding and confidence in different situations, then we have problems. Those dogs are the ones that scream when I simply pick up their feet or swab out their ears, or get sent home because they are too violent to safely finish a groom. "Oh! My baby doesn't bite!" or "she doesn't act like that at home!" are the usual responses from people in those situations. It's really hard to politely help them with a problem they don't know exists because they are almost blinded. The sad thing is I see this happen every day. (A good example of this is chihuahuas and miniature dachshunds. I cringe when they walk in and make sure I count my fingers afterwards. Shih tzus are up there on that list too.) It has become very easy to read these behaviors in a person when they walk in then mentally prepare myself for the challenge that is sure to follow. 

I really value those owners (like you, Lou!) who trust me because it shows with their dogs. If someone comes in with confidence and knows this is what's going to happen, their dogs will too. Those dogs are a dream to groom because they understand that I have a job to do and they are going to let me do it, even if it is their first time in the shop. It seems like most of the time they don't believe me when I tell them how wonderful their dog is! 

Please keep in mind that these are my own personal observations and that not every dog is like this. These are simply just generalizations to help me make a point. 

Here's a cute picture of Hibbert because, well, he's just the greatest.  
(And also a pain in my rear for grooming!)









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## Ellyisme (Jul 17, 2012)

Lou said:


> Lou jumps up and down sometimes, but not to the point of pushing on your chest or anything! just gently stands on back legs and will try to kiss the people she really likes, she won't jump on strangers. and a lot of it has to do with my friends teasing her with a very high pitched voice like saying: "Whats uuuuuuuup Lou-bear!!!!!!!" over and over and rubbing her face with both hands etc... It gets her going! And I just say "whatever" cause I'm tired of correcting and trying to TRAIN MY FRIENDS not to tease Lou cause she gets really excited and happy. For instance she won't jump on me... The problem is Lou is starting to teach Apollo to jump and that's not gonna fly!! LOL  they are just happy friendly pups, but BIG pups, so I have to make sure this doesnt escalate to jumping on others too.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


This friend is untrainable. Hahahahahaha!


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Ellyisme said:


> This friend is untrainable. Hahahahahaha!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Right?!??!!! hahahaha


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Ellyisme said:


> Want to get the, groomed next week sometime? You can text me if you like.
> 
> 
> It's not really growling and snarling towards the PP, it's more of the PP's insecurity with the dog. The dogs feed off this lack of confidence and it doesn't know how to trust me when I need them to. It takes a lot of work on my end and the PP's end to help them. I get that their dog is their baby (mine is too!), but when they treat them like actual babies and don't let the dogs gain their own understanding and confidence in different situations, then we have problems. Those dogs are the ones that scream when I simply pick up their feet or swab out their ears, or get sent home because they are too violent to safely finish a groom. "Oh! My baby doesn't bite!" or "she doesn't act like that at home!" are the usual responses from people in those situations. It's really hard to politely help them with a problem they don't know exists because they are almost blinded. The sad thing is I see this happen every day. (A good example of this is chihuahuas and miniature dachshunds. I cringe when they walk in and make sure I count my fingers afterwards. Shih tzus are up there on that list too.) It has become very easy to read these behaviors in a person when they walk in then mentally prepare myself for the challenge that is sure to follow.
> ...


My Chihuahuas are the gentlest souls you ever saw and have not one iota of that feistiness or snappishness everybody talks about. They're quiet, calm and absolutely tolerant of anything anyone dishes out. They're like the _stereotypical _Golden Retriever. They're from a lousy breeder too. But have stupendous temperaments and I've never seen them grouch at anybody. Just lovely little dogs.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> My Chihuahuas are the gentlest souls you ever saw and have not one iota of that feistiness or snappishness everybody talks about. They're quiet, calm and absolutely tolerant of anything anyone dishes out. They're like the _stereotypical _Golden Retriever. They're from a lousy breeder too. But have stupendous temperaments and I've never seen them grouch at anybody. Just lovely little dogs.


Gotta think they are so good because you are! But typically Chi's tend to have owners who are looking for small cute, but easy dogs (most other small lap dog types have difficult coat upkeep), and they don't have a clue about dog behavior. I bet that Chi owners are the vast majority of "afraid of their own dog people"!


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> My Chihuahuas are the gentlest souls you ever saw and have not one iota of that feistiness or snappishness everybody talks about. They're quiet, calm and absolutely tolerant of anything anyone dishes out. They're like the _stereotypical _Golden Retriever. They're from a lousy breeder too. But have stupendous temperaments and I've never seen them grouch at anybody. Just lovely little dogs.


She mentioned that not ALL chis are that way but just what her personal experience as a groomer has shown her like the "percentage" kind of. 
Like labradors are just known for being super mellow but once in a while she may have to groom one that is not. 


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Lou said:


> She mentioned that not ALL chis are that way but just what her personal experience as a groomer has shown her like the "percentage" kind of.
> Like labradors are just known for being super mellow but once in a while she may have to groom one that is not.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Oh I know Lou. She didn't mean every single individual. That wouldn't be logical. But I just had to throw that in because I adore my wee, sweet Chi's. They've always been treated the same way as any dog I've had except where some things are different because of their size. But they've not been overly pampered...still have pretty decent consistency with consequences and so forth. They've been avid hikers in the wilderness mountains of Idaho along with my big dogs. Coats in cold weather, yes, but still perfectly capable hiking companions. So, they're not fru fru by any means. I don't believe in being harsh or punishing, sometimes a little bossy I am.... and I think that they never developed any kind of defensiveness...that along with their own personalities.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Gotta think they are so good because you are! But typically Chi's tend to have owners who are looking for small cute, but easy dogs (most other small lap dog types have difficult coat upkeep), and they don't have a clue about dog behavior. I bet that Chi owners are the vast majority of "afraid of their own dog people"!


Thank you Tiny. 

Yes, I believe that nature and nurture both play important roles in their behavior.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Oh I know Lou. She didn't mean every single individual. That wouldn't be logical. But I just had to throw that in because I adore my wee, sweet Chi's. They've always been treated the same way as any dog I've had except where some things are different because of their size. But they've not been overly pampered...still have pretty decent consistency with consequences and so forth. They've been avid hikers in the wilderness mountains of Idaho along with my big dogs. Coats in cold weather, yes, but still perfectly capable hiking companions. So, they're not fru fru by any means. I don't believe in being harsh or punishing, sometimes a little bossy I am.... and I think that they never developed any kind of defensiveness...that along with their own personalities.


Yup Tiny knows... You sound like a REALLY good mom to them  <3


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## Ellyisme (Jul 17, 2012)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Gotta think they are so good because you are! But typically Chi's tend to have owners who are looking for small cute, but easy dogs (most other small lap dog types have difficult coat upkeep), and they don't have a clue about dog behavior. I bet that Chi owners are the vast majority of "afraid of their own dog people"!


My point exactly. 


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