# Attempting to buy a toy poodle for my father as a gift!



## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Unfortunately you will not find a reputable breeder selling puppies for that price. Toy poodles typically run $2500-3000 USD (more in Canadian $) from reputable breeders. Toy poodles from disreputable breeders are prone to terrible health problems and poor temperaments. You want a breeder that does health testing on the parents to ensure the dog will not soon go blind or require expensive surgery to walk. Please do not buy your father an unhealthy problem dog he will have to pay for for the next 15 years.

Aside from that, I would urge you to be very transparent with your father. If he really wants a dog he will be thrilled with the plan but may want you to take his preference into account. If he is not really prepared for a dog he will really not appreciate the gift. Breeders also will typically not sell to people gifting the dog. The receiver needs to be a part of the process. That may be another reason nobody is answering you.


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## TK9NY (Jan 6, 2017)

Have you discussed this with your dad? Did he specifically come out and say to you that he wants a dog, in a serious manner and not a passing "i love your dog, i wish i had one just like it hahaha", and is welcome to the idea of you purchasing one for him?

Dogs make terrible surprise gifts - you're basically giving someone something that they will be physically and financially responsible for, for the next 15+ years. If they're not actually prepared for it, that's when the dog ends up dumped in a shelter. Or worse. 

You are not going to find a purebred puppy from a reputable breeder for under $1,000. Most reputable breeders are going to range from $2,000+ for a pet quality, non-show prospect, puppy from health tested parents. At minimum you want to see health testing - hips/elbows, eyes, etc. A good quality dog, even non-show quality, is not going to run cheap. 

If you're lucky you MIGHT find a breeder looking to re-home an older young adult dog in that range, maybe one that was returned or they no longer plan to use in their breeding program. But that's pushing it a bit. 

Rescues are not going to sell you a dog you plan to give as a gift - again, dogs make terrible gifts and they know it. Many of their animals are likely there BECAUSE they were gifted to someone who wasn't actually ready or willing to take on the responsibility. Most rescues will want to run backgrounds checks and/or a home check. They'll want to know financial history. Etc. 

If your dad actually wants a dog, he should do his own research. He should reach out to some breeders and talk to them. Meet some puppies if he can. Go to some rescues. When HE finds the puppy that HE wants, you can purchase it for him. That way he can choose the personality and energy level that HE wants, not a guess (which is how dogs wind up re-homed or dumped.... wrong match.)

Hypoallergenic is a misleading term - no dog is truly free of allergens. Hypo merely means "less likely to cause an allergy". Your dad could be allergic to any dog he comes into contact with. A poorly bred dog is MORE likely to produce dander/allergens due to the poor breeding - lots of poorly bred dogs have skin allergies, skin issues, etc that produce dander. A cross breed is only half likely to inherit the poodle hypoallergenic trait - the other half of it is still a different breed. A purebred, well bred dog is less likely to have health issues that could contribute to allergens (IE poor skin, skin allergies, etc). 

I would discuss this with dad before you get too involved.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Very, very good advice here.

I’m just popping in to add that I _love_ the name of your poodle. So cute!


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Popping in with a warning about puppy mills in Ontario. West/South of the GTA, especially the Kitchener area tends to be a bad area for puppy mills run by local Mennonite/Amish farmers.

You are unlikely to find anything but a puppy mill dog for 800-1000 in Ontario and even that is unlikely. Right now, even backyard breeders random large breed mixes are going for $3500 (!!!!!) On Kijiji, so a $1000 toy poodle would be very suspicious to me.


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## 5girls1guy&apoodle (Jun 12, 2016)

I love the sentiment. It’s incredibly sweet that you want to do that for your dad. It truly is thoughtful and heartfelt. You want your dad to have the same joy as you. That being said I do agree with other posters. Dogs are bad gifts. Maybe if you could surprise him by saying we want to gift you a dog and offering to pay for it or help pay for it. Then let him be in charge of the choosing process and you can then pay the bill or part of the bill still. Maybe if you could pay a thousand and your dad could do the other half he could have a dog. Maybe he’s been wanting one, but couldn’t foot the whole bill. Truly beautiful thing you want to do for your dad. Maybe just go about it differently. That way he can let you know if it won’t work for him. Also I love your poodles name! Pickle, too cute!


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Hi and Welcome! 

All good info above even if not what you're hoping to hear. 

We often hear from folks that they just want a pet. What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that the kind of quality, conscientious breeders I, for one, prefer to support are always breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions, but are flawless to us .

Getting a puppy from a quality, conscientious breeder is something like insurance. Their investment in the health, welfare, and soundness of the puppies they offer to new homes is part of the reason you're not going to find a less than $2000 USD puppy from them. 

The saying is "pay the breeder or pay the vet". Price alone isn't the only thing to separate quality breeders from those less than. We've seen members quote as high and even much higher pricing for pups from parents not health tested, not proven to meet breed standards, sold as purebred when only a DNA test could determine that since they may be sold without registration papers.

Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder. The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

Look for and verify OFA/CHIC level testing at a minimum. Poodle specific DNA panels for those testable conditions are companion testing with the OFA/CHIC testing.
Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)


A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much to back it if the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

Read thru any contracts that may be listed. If they rule out coverage for conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?

Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times and with pandemic puppy seekers, that wait is stretched well into 2021-2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs rather than keep a website updated.

When you start making contacts, let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.
Color preferences are understandable but keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies. Many poodle colors change thru their lives.
Temperament is lifelong trait.

Be prepared to spend in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

Be prepared to travel outside your preferred area.

As a very general rule, websites to be leery of are those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience".


An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. An online search for "Poodle Club of *___* (your city or state)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.


As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, this is my personal criteria (I have another more detailed but just this for now):

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come. Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is _well bred._


Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time 

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards and are physically capable by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them. 

Be extremely cautious of puppies sold thru pet stores, or online marketplaces like puppyspot, puppyfind, kijiji, craigslist, classified ads, etc. Many of these puppies will be mill puppies and while you may get lucky, the odds are against you and that sweet puppy. 

One additional caution, be very wary of those very cute short legged poodles. That's a genetic mutation which may carry serious life-altering disease. 

Even if you don't post here again, I hope you understand that this information is meant to help you find a happy, healthy companion for your father to share many happy, healthy years together.


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