# Advice please!! Monty has epilepsy.



## Montys mummy (Nov 11, 2013)

Can anyone help me with my Monty noodle? He's an intact spoo and he turned 1 last week, then Friday he had a seizure, (a grand Mal) where he soiled and wet himself. He was really disorientated when he came to and started really snarling and backing away from my husband. He then had a cluster of seizures, 3 in 12 hours. He spent the day in the pet hospital, with IV fluids and they just sent him home and said that they don't think it's a tumour because of his age, and his blood glucose levels were fine. They said he most probably has epilepsy and when need medication, but they didn't want to prescribe yet, as it causes serious kidney complications. I don't really know what to do now. He's had no seizures since Saturday morning, but he vomited last night. Does anyone have any experience with this, and can you give me some advice on diet, first aid, anything that may help. Thank you. Sarah. X 


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Oh gosh, I have had three seizure dogs....two were fosters and one was my Jack Russell Stogy.

The first was a young pup, probably 12 weeks old and was turned into the rescue because of "nightmares". In the car on the way home from picking him up, he threw back his head, stiffened up for a few seconds then was fine again. One of my daughters was about 12 at the time and she said, MOM the puppy is having a seizure. He continued to have them every few minutes despite the vet's best effort to try to get them to stop. They believe he was born with neurological problems and he was euthanized. 

The second was my beloved Tippy. Her story was she had fallen off a cliff when they were hiking. Her head was tipped to one side, her tongue hung out, she was cross-eyed, and she could only walk in circles, always to the left! To go about 8 feet she would do about 5 circles. She had her first seizure on Christmas morning. It was grand mal, she lost bladder and bowel control, and was blind and confused afterward for about 20 minutes. She was first put on PhenoBarbital and it made her very ataxic (weak in the hind end) and she couldn't walk. We switched to Potassium Bromide and she did much better. She had seizures about every 2 weeks. She was a foster, but we loved her so much! Then the rescue wanted me to take her to their vet where they were going to run her MRI. I dropped her off. Then the rescue called and said the funds they were to use fell through and they would keep her with them till they again raised the funds. Last I heard she had had a horrible seizure and lost an eye. That was my last foster. I should have just adopted her. One I will never get over. I think Tippy had brain damage, I don't know if I believe the "cliff" story. With rescues though, you never know. Tippy was very happy and loving. 

The last was my JRT. He was playing ball one day and fell over in a grand mal seizure. I rushed him to the vet and at the vet he had another right on the table, which was perfect because the vet got to see what I was talking about. He was put on Potassium Bromide but would still have seizures about every 3 months. He would have a cluster of maybe 3 within a day or two then go another 3 months. Gradually the distance between seizures grew and he would only have a couple a year. 

Stogy lived a normal life. I eventually took him off the meds and he had the same amount of seizures with or without the meds. He was 3 years old on his first seizure and lived to be 11, and died of pancreatic cancer. 

Stogy went to the river with us, he was ball obsessed, he tore his ACL and did fine with the surgery. He was active and happy. The seizures didn't slow him down one bit. 

Look into the meds, I liked the Potassium Bromide better, seemed to have fewer side effects. You will have to wait and see how he does which is hard, but I have known MANY seizure dogs that do very well. If the seizures continue too often, I personally would want to run an MRI to rule out tumors. 

Hang in there! It is scary. I hope things work out for your boy and he can live a normal, healthy life. 

Just a side note: if he ever has a seizure around other dogs, be careful. My other dogs would attack the dog having the seizure. This was weird because these dogs were all best friends and the attackers otherwise would NEVER have acted this way. I have heard it is common.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

My mini poodle started having seizures at about age 3. They were cluster seizures and strangely enough seemed to happen every new moon. Got to be I hated the times the new moon approached. We tried the usual epilepsy meds but they did not help. When the seizures started, they just wouldn't stop and I had to drop him off at the vets or after hours at the emergency service. At 4 1/2 yrs my vet asked me if she should increase the meds, that it was at a dangerous level. I told her to do it. I took him home that night and watched him until he died on my couch. So my story did not have a happy ending. I am guessing he had a tumor but I did not do an autopsy. I do not think what happened to my dog was typical.

If I had a dog with epilepsy again I would wait a while to see if the meds helped. If not, I would have the MRI right away so I would know what I was dealing with. I would also have pet insurance so I would not have to worry about the expense of diagnosis and treatment.


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## GeriDe (Mar 2, 2014)

My story is about a cat - she was about 12 when she started to seizure. Vet put her on seizure meds and they stopped but she was loopy and would walk into walls. After a while, I stopped the meds and watched closely to see if there was a trigger to her seizures. I've been a teacher of special needs children for many years and know some seizures can be triggered by sounds, lights, vibrations, etc.

After a short period of time, I recognized the trigger. Now, this is OLD SCHOOL but my phone still made the clicking sound of each number dialed. When she heard that, she seizured if she was nearby. That was the old days when you had to transfer from rotary - even if you had the button phones.

I transferred to the alternative, the clicking stopped and the seizures stopped. She lived to be 24 years old, seizure free.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I think the post ictal period following the seizures are almost worse than the seizures. The dog can have vision problems and not recognise you. That is why they back away and snarl. Vision should come back if you wait a while, but definitely keep your kids away. Then there is the pacing. They want to walk but often cannot walk without help. That is when we put a halter and leash on the dog and if the weather is good, you take him outside where he can walk in circles without hitting furniture. It helps if you can take it in turns because this can go on for hours, at least it did in our case. It was this post ictal behavior that caused us to take him to the vets because we still.had to go to work.

I had a dog later with Addisons which takes a lot of work to manage but epilepsy is much worse. I think there are too many things that can cause epilepsy, and what works for one will not work for another. Close observation and as much testing as can be done, sooner rather than later, might make a difference. I would not accept the wait and see attitude for more than a couple of months if the seizures continue.


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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

I'm so sorry your dog (and you!) are going through this. Did you notice if the seizures occurred after application of flea medication or after vaccines? Some dogs are sensitive to some of the medications/vaccines on the market nowadays.

Also, since your dog is prone to seizures, I'd check your food and make sure it doesn't have any added dyes, etc. Also, some seizure prone dogs tend to be sensitive to kibbles that contain rosemary, which is in a lot of the kibbles. Evidence is anecdotal, but apparently pretty convincing.


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## PoodlePaws (May 28, 2013)

Poor Monty. Do you think he could've gotten to a toxin in the yard? Line mushrooms or something?


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## PoodlePaws (May 28, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> Oh gosh, I have had three seizure dogs....two were fosters and one was my Jack Russell Stogy.
> 
> The first was a young pup, probably 12 weeks old and was turned into the rescue because of "nightmares". In the car on the way home from picking him up, he threw back his head, stiffened up for a few seconds then was fine again. One of my daughters was about 12 at the time and she said, MOM the puppy is having a seizure. He continued to have them every few minutes despite the vet's best effort to try to get them to stop. They believe he was born with neurological problems and he was euthanized.
> 
> ...


Omg. About your other dogs attacking the one seizing!! My dogs do this. When Ash was having the first signs of something wrong and crying out in pain, missy kept attacking her!! And now with missy yelping out in pain from surgery, Ash attacks her!! I wonder why they do this. It's certainly NOT nice. 


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## Wren (Jul 2, 2013)

*Epilepsy*

Oh dear, Sarah. I am so sorry to hear about Monty. My previous spoo, Cail had epilepsy. He’s the one in my avatar. He began having seizures right around 1 year of age. (I have a new spoo pup, but haven’t had time to update my pictures.) Go look at my pictures, you will see that your Monty can have a mostly normal life and be the same happy dog he is right now.

My dog was on both phenobarbital and potassium bromide. They don’t cure the seizures, but will slow down the occurrences. He mostly had seizures in the middle of the night (think 2-3 a.m.) when he was in a deep REM sleep, although there were times he had seizures during the daytime. As a previous poster noted, many of his seizures occurred around the time of a full moon.

Be sure to document all seizures on a calendar. Your vet will want to know. Sometimes you will be able to notice a pattern. If you observe your dog carefully, you may also notice changes in energy level or certain behaviors that predict on coming seizures. 

During the seizure itself, clear away any furniture and just let the seizure happen. Do not try to restrain him or pet him or comfort him, even though you want to. He cannot hear you, feel you or see you. (I did not make my spoo sleep in a kennel/crate because I figured he would do more damage to himself in a wire crate than just leaving him on the floor.) I could slide towels or pee pads under my dog and wrap them around the belly for loss of bladder control. I could also fold a towel or slide a travel pillow under his head to keep him from banging it on the floor. If your dog snaps when seizing you may not want to risk this. I was also able to slide my dog from a carpeted area to a vinyl or tile area. Again, you may or may not be able to do this. Our dog slept in our room, but not our bed. If he began seizing on his bed, I could drag/slide the whole bed easily to our bathroom floor for easier clean up. Make sure your dog beds have liners and washable covers. There is nothing you can do if they lose bowel control. Sometimes that happened, sometimes it didn’t. They cannot swallow their tongue, so don’t put anything in their mouth. They might bite their tongue a little bit, but that is minor.

Also read up on the internet about the post ictal phase. This is when you will need to be present for the dog, they are not fully aware of what they are doing, may appear to be blind, pace in circles, etc. They may get “stuck” in room corners. Create a place in your home where the dog can pace safely, don’t try to stop him…they are compelled to do this as their electrical circuits reprogram. Watch out for heavy furniture like bookshelves and TV’s that can tip over on them (my husband anchored heavier pieces and the TV to the wall), looked for pointed things, glass doors, etc. Get down on your hands and knees at his level and really check the area out. They may pace or turn in circles for up to an hour; they will stumble and be uncoordinated. Do not grab your dog by the collar to guide him. (I learned the hard way when my finger caught in his collar while my dog turned in such tight circles that he almost wrenched my finger off.) Finally, after several attempts the dog will lie down and sleep. He will be exhausted. Just let him sleep. Usually when they wake up they may appear to be slightly subdued, or just fine and hungry. The dogs don’t know what happened to them and they don’t feel any pain during the seizure. 

Prepare a “seizure kit” or two. I kept one upstairs and one downstairs. I took old sports duffels, filled them with pee pads, a plastic shower curtain, paper towels, wash cloths, old towels, baby wipes, a leash, and plastic bags for disposal of pee pads, paper towels and baby wipes. We always took one with us when we traveled, too.

As a previous poster said, it’s best to keep other dogs well away. 

Unfortunately, with epilepsy, each seizure trains the brain to have more seizures. Other than the seizures, Cail was a completely normal, goofy, healthy dog who enjoyed his life. We took him everywhere with us, if he couldn’t go, we stayed home because we didn’t want to board him or leave him with people who wouldn’t know how to deal with his seizures. 

This will be hard for you to know, but I will say that Cail did pass away at age 5 from epilepsy. I logged over 90 seizures during those years. At the end there was just nothing that the vet or anyone else could do to stop the seizures. I had two dogs prior to Cail that both had just a few seizures and lived their full life spans. Some dogs live for a long time with a few seizures, other have increasing episodes until there is just nothing that can be done, except to be merciful. I hope for your sake and Monty’s that he lives a full life with few episodes.

I understand how devastating this must be, but I want you to know that you can manage the seizures and that you and Monty can have a mostly normal, happy life. Hope this helps and if I think of anything else I will post again.


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## DavidT (Apr 15, 2010)

Hello,

Very sorry about the seizures. I know how it is to watch your canine friend go through this. Our 4 year old male Spoo started with Gran Mal seizures at about 18 months of age. I panicked thinking that he had a stick or something sltuck in his mouth so reached in to pull it out as we had a German Shepherd Dog that had done this. Well, I was not bitten but was told that I sure could have been. 

He seemed to have a Gran Mal sizure about once per month and still does to this day. Our Vet asked us to keep track as to the length of the seizures and also furnish us with rectal Valium supplies to administer if a seizure lasted 5 minutes or more. So far they only last about 3 minutes. We now just make sure that he can not hurt himself during a seizure.

For what its worth, our Vet has extensively trained in Chinese veterinary methods and suggested that we could try that and see how it works as we could also go to conventional meds if needed. He was put on "Ding Jian Wan" powder (or capsules). The Chinese have been at it for awhile so we gave it a go. So far, compared to others with far worse episodes, they seem to work and keep his seizures down to once per month and sometimes longer and he leads a mostly normal life. I was told that the side affects from using the Chinese meds might be less than using other conventional meds.

This is not fun to deal with at all and I totally sympathize. Hang in there, you do kind of get used to it to some extent .

David


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## Montys mummy (Nov 11, 2013)

Thank you so much for all your advice. It's scary and heartbreaking to see him like this, but nice to know that most of you have managed it well and your dogs are still happy with a good quality of life. I totally agree with the post that say that the worst period is when they come out of their seizure. I feel so helpless when he doesn't even know who I am and I can't comfort him. He paces around for hours. I'll keep you all updated on how he gets on. Thank you. Xx 


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## pandj (Jun 12, 2013)

I am so sorry ! I have had several dogs with seizures ranging from very infrequently to Grand Mal cluster. Some have been put on meds others not. They all had good quality life. The first ones are always the hardest. You will get used to just doing what you need to do. I had very good results with Pot. Bromide as well.

Hang in there ! It is not so bad once you get his meds figured out.
Please keep us posted...

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## Charlygrl2 (Mar 30, 2014)

DavidT said:


> Hello,
> 
> Very sorry about the seizures. I know how it is to watch your canine friend go through this. Our 4 year old male Spoo started with Gran Mal seizures at about 18 months of age. I panicked thinking that he had a stick or something sltuck in his mouth so reached in to pull it out as we had a German Shepherd Dog that had done this. Well, I was not bitten but was told that I sure could have been.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if I'm doing this right so please excuse me if I am not, I have never replied to a post before. Trick my eight years old Spoo started having seizures a few years ago, no one could tell me why or what caused them. All the test came back fine didn't have any known reason to be having the seizures, I was just told some dogs are prone to them.
I shouldn't be overly concerned as long as he doesn't have them often, or in clusters or they are not long in duration. I did a lot of research trying to find out what I can do to prevent a seizure or if there was anything I could do to help shorten and bring him or around quicker. Ice therapy worked for Trick shortened believe tremendously and to bring him and he recovered very quickly. Luckily I've only had to try that wants because while speaking to Tricks new vet regarding his seizures she asked me if I had him on Trifexis for heartworm and flea control and I did. She explained to me that it can cause seizures in some dogs it is one of the side effects. Needless to say both of my boys are off of it now and in the four months since I've stopped giving it to Trick he has not had one seizure. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it was the Trifexis, although I still keep ice packs ready in the freezer just in case.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Charlygrl2 said:


> I'm not sure if I'm doing this right so please excuse me if I am not, I have never replied to a post before. Trick my eight years old Spoo started having seizures a few years ago, no one could tell me why or what caused them. All the test came back fine didn't have any known reason to be having the seizures, I was just told some dogs are prone to them.
> I shouldn't be overly concerned as long as he doesn't have them often, or in clusters or they are not long in duration. I did a lot of research trying to find out what I can do to prevent a seizure or if there was anything I could do to help shorten and bring him or around quicker. Ice therapy worked for Trick shortened believe tremendously and to bring him and he recovered very quickly. Luckily I've only had to try that wants because while speaking to Tricks new vet regarding his seizures she asked me if I had him on Trifexis for heartworm and flea control and I did. She explained to me that it can cause seizures in some dogs it is one of the side effects. Needless to say both of my boys are off of it now and in the four months since I've stopped giving it to Trick he has not had one seizure. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it was the Trifexis, although I still keep ice packs ready in the freezer just in case.


Could you please explain how you used ice to help Trick recover from his seizures? As has been stated in this thread, the post ictal phase where they pace continuously is one of the worse side effects of having seizures. If ice helped, that would be good to know. How did you apply the ice? Did you use ice packs? How long did you apply them?

I am very happy that your vet thought to ask about Trifexis. Here's hoping that Trick continues to do well.


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## pandj (Jun 12, 2013)

I have read about the ice pack therapy. It says to get it as soon as you realize that a seizure is coming. It says to rub the ice pack up and down on the back. Apparently it reduces the length of the seizure and makes the aftereffects much milder. You can also use a bag of frozen veggies. They stress that the sooner you get the ice on the better the results.

Crossing fingers and paws that Monty does well from now on!

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## pandj (Jun 12, 2013)

Try this ...it is a different from what I read but from a holistic vet journey so I would go with this. www.canine.epilepsy-guardian angels.com 

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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I'm so sorry about this. What a frightening thing it is to watch. I had a Lab and Doberman with liver disease. The Lab was old and started having seizures from that. The Dobe didn't. Anyhow, the vet didn't put her on anything as they were pretty spread out.

This is kind of embarrassing but have you heard how marijuana is very effective for people with epilepsy among other things? I wonder how you could do that or if it would be safe for dogs. I sure wouldn't do anything without extensive research and advice from a vet where that's concerned. But it's a thought. Marijuana and Epilepsy: Study Finds It's Not Just CBD That Can Help - Leaf Science Of course, if you don't live in a state where it's legal, I don't know how that would work.

I know of people who have had epilepsy...had many seizures a day and when they started using medical marijuana, they stopped. 

It does seem to be something that can be managed. I do wish you all the best during this scary time. And hope your pup will get the meds he needs to help manage this.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

My parents had a Malinois mix that had seizures, but his seemed to coincide with vaccines for some reason. They had the same issue others mentioned with their other dog attacking him during seizures.


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## cindyreef (Sep 28, 2012)

I had a dog live a normal life to age 13 with epilepsy. He was first diagnosed at age 4. A lot of the previous comments apply here too. The pacing, bladder loss etc. But in our case if he was on his meds he didn't have any more "bad or noticeable" seizures. If I forgot or lessened his meds, that's when it became a problem. At first the meds made him lethargic and sleepy and I tried lessening them. Not good. He would soon relapse and get another seizure. The vet said to keep giving the meds as prescribed and he will eventually get back to his normal energetic self. When we did that he was fine in a few weeks. And we had to keep the meds steady or else there was a seizure. I felt guilty if he had a seizure because I knew it was because of my own tardiness.

I could notice when he was prone to having a seizure because his facial expressions would change a few days before. I think he had mild ones while on the meds. Anxiety would bring it on. But he lived a happy normal 13 yrs and was so loved. He succumbed eventually to cancer.


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