# Really Need Advice



## Megan (May 1, 2011)

Diamond has a problem with coming when she is called. If she is inside the house she comes to you every time. If she is outside on a leash she comes to you. However, if she is outside without leash on she thinks it's all fun and games and will NOT come. Not for a toy, not for a treat. Nothing. I just spent the last hour chasing her around in two feet of snow because she managed to get out through the open garage door. Pleas help me!


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Fjm is a real font of wisdom on this forum and will have good advice for you but I'll tell you what I'm doing: obedience lessons until they're completely reliable and practicing, practicing, practicing. In my opinion a good reliable recall is the most important lesson of all because it can save their lives, so it's worth investing your time into. In obedience lessons they teach us to use high-value treats and practice on-lead until the dogs is completely reliable, then off-lead in a fenced area, and always make sure you win. That is, if you call Diamond once, you MUST ensure that she comes to you (physically moving her to where you called her, if necessary) and then lots of praise and treats. Persistence is the key!


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## Arcticfox (Dec 12, 2011)

Hmm... Perhaps try it with a long line? You can get those really cheap in walmart or even some grocery stores. I got a 20 foot one for $3.00 to practice recalls with. 

How old is your dog? Could she just be going through a phase? Sometimes when Tesla's not being very responsive I make funny noises and run AWAY from her. I never ever chase my dog if I can help it, to teach her that that is NOT a fun game to play. I get her chase me all the time though so that's a fun game. If she's off leash and not coming when called, I run away while calling her so she thinks we're playing a game again. Also I get my boyfriend to help, while we're in the park, we stand at opposite ends and call her back and forth between us. It's teaching her to differentiate between "go to daddy" and "go to mommy" ^.^ Try some of these when there are no other distractions around - like in an empty dog park or if you have a large fenced yard. If there are no distractions and you're the most interesting thing around, she might be more likely to engage.

Some people have also found the "touch" command much more effective than "come". Where the dog has to come and touch your hand for a treat. Then they can go back to playing after. I haven't tried this long distance yet but it works with Tesla when we're indoors.


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## afkar (Dec 9, 2011)

You must insure the treats are really high value. The other thing that I always use with mine is to not just call & put on leash or whatever. Call, treat then release Diamond to do whatever she wants. Do this & sometimes offer her a toy & game on release. This way she isn't going to associate coming with the end of fun but possibly an even more fun game as well as a treat..


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Have you tried running in the opposite direction to initiate a chase, then giving a treat when she gets close enough?


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## Mom of Sophie (Feb 2, 2012)

Thank you, Megan, for asking this question. My Sophie is 8 mos. old and we have the same problem part of the time. We have 2 male dogs that live behind us and she answers to their barks before she will us when it's time to come inside! It's very frustrating.


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## Megan (May 1, 2011)

*Thanks Everyone*

Thank you everyone for your quick replies. I agree that a reliable recall is very important. I often worry about her getting out, running away from me and getting hit by a car or something awful like that. The problem I have is that she wants me to chase her. Unless she is on a leash, she thinks we're playing a game. I did get her to chase me, and she will, but she will not get close enough to let me grab her. When I get close she darts away again. I have bought a long 30 foot lead I use when we're outside to practice her recall. She also does know the touch command but she's not really enthusiastic about it. I have tried offering her hot dogs, and it seemed like she got bored so I started playing tug with her or throwing a toy for her when she came to me. Like I said, inside the house her recall is great. She'll even come and sniff me out if I'm hiding from her. Just when she is outside and off leash, she turns into a brat. It's like I haven't taught her anything.


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## Arcticfox (Dec 12, 2011)

Yikes, that's a little discouraging :afraid: I'm so not looking forward to puppy adolescence. Has anyone had good experiences with the teenage poodle? Where they just got better and better with no regressions? 

I think if it were me, I'd just not let her off leash for a couple of weeks. How does she do on long lead? Does it help at all?


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## Megan (May 1, 2011)

On a long lead, she does fine. She doesn't even wander that far away from me to go explore. I call her and she comes. Sometimes I have to give her a little tug but that's it. I really want to take her to the dog park so that she can play, but I'm worried that she would never come back to me


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Ah, the joys of adolescence! I think I would teach a different word, as she has learned to ignore "Come". If she loves to play, could you have a really exciting squeaky tug toy that will fit in your pocket, and that only comes out when she returns to you and lets you hold her collar for a second? Calling her back, then sending her off to play again is also hugely rewarding - I once, with great difficulty, persuaded Sophy away from a neighbourhood BBQ (burgers, hot dogs, crisps all raining from the sky - dog heaven!). She really did not want to come, and when I released her to go back it was the best reward ever!

I've taught Wait as a back up to Come - If something is simply too exciting for them to turn away from, I at least can usually get them to stay still until I get to them. In fact Wait is probably the most useful safety word I have - waiting to go out of the door, get out of the car, to have leads put on, when bicycles go past - so it is in constant use, and constantly reinforced.

I have also been given a simple method for teaching an emergency recall: 1 - lay in a supply of really, really good stuff your dog does not usually get - whole slices of roast beef, chicken breast - the luxury to end all luxury of dog treats. 2 - package three generous portions in sealed bags, and place them around the house, where the dog can't find them. 3 - choose a word that you will remember easily in an emergency QUICK! or DANGER! and when the dog is not expecting it call her to you using her name and the new word, and reward with the whole of the super duper treat. 4 - repeat every day for a week, by which time the emergency word should have your dog galloping to find you.

I did try, but we fell down on step 2 - anything I can hide, Sophy can find! I need to buy some bags that she can't smell through ...


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

A reliable recall in the face of distractions is never "finished", in my view. We still practice all the time.

My rule of thumb is that for every 20 times I recall the dog, only one of those can be something the dog doesn't desire, i.e. going home or leaving the interesting bit of trash. The other 19 times, it is games, yummy treats, or release to go back to whatever was so interesting. My theory is that the result is two-fold ... the dog builds the habit of returning quickly, plus he feels happy about it.

Because we do our daily walks in a park where teenagers leave fast food trash, I practice recalls every day with MAJOR distraction :smile:. 

Poodles are smart; I'm not surprised the OP's dog knows the difference between wearing a leash and not. Mine certainly does. Lots and lots (and lots!) of recall practice off lead builds a reliable recall, starting with minimal distractions and slowly working up.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

fjm said:


> I have also been given a simple method for teaching an emergency recall: 1 - lay in a supply of really, really good stuff your dog does not usually get - whole slices of roast beef, chicken breast - the luxury to end all luxury of dog treats. 2 - package three generous portions in sealed bags, and place them around the house, where the dog can't find them. 3 - choose a word that you will remember easily in an emergency QUICK! or DANGER! and when the dog is not expecting it call her to you using her name and the new word, and reward with the whole of the super duper treat. 4 - repeat every day for a week, by which time the emergency word should have your dog galloping to find you.



I cannot thank you enough for sharing this bit of brilliance! I never heard of doing something like it before, and I certainly wouldn't have come up with it myself. I will both employ it, and share it widely!!:smile:


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## Megan (May 1, 2011)

I agree, that is a really good piece of advice that I will use with Diamond. I guess I will have to teach her a new word in place of "come" since to her it means "come catch me" instead. How should I go about teaching it to her? I would only need if for when she's off leash and outside since that's when she doesn't listen to me. Should I just take her in the backyard without a leash to practice or should I keep her on a long lead at first?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Behaviour first, word later is a good rule - and probably easier t achieve with a long line. Jean Donaldson's 'Train your dog like a pro" is excellent on the incremental stages of teaching a behaviour, through duration, distance, distractions, etc.


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## afkar (Dec 9, 2011)

Another encouragement (not always easy to do depending on ground conditions & your nerve) is to just call her name without anything else then when you have her attention lie face down on the ground with a yummy treat concealed in your hand. Wait till curiousity works for you & Diamond comes to investigate - don't grab but do treat & slowly sit up, stroke or play then release a bit more treat. Send her off again to play, then call again turning your back & wait for curiosity to help again. I have always done the recall/release/ play/ recall etc with mine & have always got great recalls even at places like the beach. The treat value is always high when away from home. Cheese, coconut cubes, liver & the like.


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## Arcticfox (Dec 12, 2011)

I remember back when we were petsitting a friends 5 year old golden retriever, who'd never been off leash before except the odd time she managed to dash out the door and played keep away up and down the neighborhood. My dad and I would take her down to a huuuuuge park in our area and let her run free. At first she wouldn't want to come back to us, but we would just practice our new phrase along the lines of "head petting!" in in Chinese, and just give her some love and petting then letting her go. She LOVED attention so eventually she came for her petting session whenever we said that, even when offleash, and we'd do it every few minutes on walks and such as well. She never did end up coming when we called "come here" though.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Good ideas here. I would mainly recommend making it obviously clear that you will not chase her. Whatever word you decide to use, I would practice on the long line until she comes bounding back to you *every single time*. You mentioned in one post that she "sometimes needs a little tug". Then she doesn't know the command well enough. Once she no longer needs that little tug, I would let her loose in the yard with the long line still attached but dragging the ground (you aren't hold it). This way, if she chooses not to come to you, you just need to get to the end of the line and re-enforce instead of trying to actually catch _her_. 

Get down on her level when you call her to come. Kneeling, crouching, or lying down, as afkar mentioned, will peak her interest and encourage her to come to you (practice these first _on_ lead, then progress to off-lead once she is 100%). Facing the opposite direction (not looking directly at her) can also help in some cases. 

And I can't stress enough that the rewards need to be extremely high value, as several others have mentioned. Find the one thing she loves more than life, and use that as a reward for recalls. 

Remember, you don't need to up the criteria (asking her to come off leash) until she fully understands what you are asking. This will cause failed attempts, and if she gets by with not following through on recalls, she will learn that she doesn't always have to listen and that is when your recall command becomes useless.


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## katbrat (May 8, 2011)

I use "come touch" with Lexi and she has gotten to the point that she will come for that every single time. The "come" command, she acts like she can't hear, doesn't understand or walks really, really slow to where you are. When we were learing "come touch" I would reward every single time with high value treats. The instructor when we did obiedence used the phrase "you will become a human Pez machine!" I always thought that was a pretty funny analogy. Now, I will give the command and sometimes she gets treats and sometimes lots of praise. We will practice this outside or just when she is in another room. Is it just in the snow that Diamond wants to be chased? I ask this because when Lexi first saw snow and when we have gotten a good amount of snow, it's like she would get outside in it and forgets everything she knew. I had had to be very firm and for awhile she only went out in the snow when it was deep on a leash because all she wanted to do was root around and play in it. No snow on the ground and she would listen every time, snow on the ground and it's a maybe and back on the leash she went until she was consistant. Over time and with being very consistant, she would recall with "come touch" even in the snow. Good luck with Diamond!


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## PoodlePowerBC (Feb 25, 2011)

I am reading "The Other end of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell. She has some very interesting points ... one of which is that dogs work better by sight than command. When you are training a recall, she recommends to have a hand signal as well as a command, and body signals are very important as well. Great book! Think I'm going to have to read it a couple of times to really get it though  From day one I used hand signals with Russell , and when he was going through the terrible teens, I switched from "Come" with a hand signal to "touch" with a hand signal. It really worked for him! He was maybe 50/50 with "Come" at the time ... Now he has a near perfect recall at 15 months with any distraction that has come up so far. Good luck!


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

I'm huge on recall. My pup is 3 months old and I have barely started training it. BUT, I cannot, will not, tolerate a dog running off, or doing the chase me thing. Twice in the house my puppy has decided to run off. I chased him down and scruffed him, then crated him for a couple of hours. Harsh? A lot kinder than getting hit by a car, right? Yesterday, he was loose outside when a neighbor was walking by with their dog. I called him and he stopped dead and came to me. That is _without_ training. He has never heard the words "come", "here" and his name is only used when I'm training the come.

A dog has to learn that you are in control even when you're not in control. And the dog needs to learn self-control. 

You have 2 options:
1. Add corrections. I'm not a fan of throw chains and don't incorporate them into training. But, if chucking my keys at the heels of a naughty puppy will help create life-saving recall, that is what it takes. I own an electric collar, but if you're already having problems with leash-wise, you'll probably have worse problems with collar-wise. A long leash is perfect with all the advice here.
2. Retrain with rewards. _In this situation you have to WITHHOLD to create value of the reward. _ If you are using food rewards, withhold food for a day first. If you are using play, take all the toys away for a week first. If you are using praise, crate your dog and don't pet it for a day first. (This can seriously backfire with a couple different temperaments of dogs.)

But in reality, you need to use both rewards and corrections. Finding the balance for you and your dog is the really hard part! It so depends on the dog, but I encourage you to really WORK at playing with your dog. Don't let this get your cool. Work at playing with your dog on a long leash. As soon as she stops playing with you -step on the leash walk away. Put her in a crate, quiet room, or if you were playing outised, just go inside. The better your relationship with your dog, the easier this training will be. If you can get your dog _engaged_ with you, you won't have this problem anymore. 

This is a problem that can be fixed with rewards-based training. (Yay!) But it will take a lot of work. A lot of work! It's worth it.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

I have never heard any trainer I respect recommend things like this. I don't mean to offend, but starving the dog to increase interest in food rewards is WAY old school, Tortoise. 

Better, kinder ways are available and *they work*. I don't hit my dog, I don't scruff him (I don't really know what that is ... shaking the dog by the scruff?), I don't starve him, I don't deprive him of toys, and he has a brilliant recall. He can be running in the opposite direction, and I whistle and it's as if I've yanked him on an invisible long line ... he turns that fast and comes hell-for-leather back to me. 

Do I think there is no place ever for a correction? No. But I can think of about 1 in 50 things that I would correct for, and my corrections tend to be along the lines of a sharp "hey!" or (maximum punishment) a 30 second time-out in the kitchen. 

Dogs WANT to work with us. They do. I'm always troubled when people (and it is us, not the dogs) turn training into an artificial battle of wills. Give a dog a reason for doing something your way, and he'll do it with joy, forever. Punish him for not doing it your way, and he may do it, but not with joy. I don't want my dog slinking back to me on a recall cue because he's afraid he'll be hurt if he doesn't. I want him RACING back to me with a big goofy grin on his face.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I was frankly horrified to read your advice, Tortoise. OF COURSE we all need a good recall to keep our dogs safe, but punishing a puppy for doing what puppies do? Starving a pup to make him more interested in you? Pups start life wanting to be with their humans - as JE says, build up a joyful relationship, and the dog will come because you are the Best Thing in the World. There will be wobbles, especially during adolescence, but you manage and work through those. 

I suspect you are at the cusp of cross over training, T - exploring reward based training, but not yet certain enough of the results to let go of methods you have used in the past. A pup is far more likely to associate being shaken and crated with you than with whatever he was doing when you grabbed him - and that is going to make him less likely to come to you next time you call. Which sets you on the slippery slope to yanks on the lead, and on to shock collars ("better than risking his life ..."), etc, etc. And they may work - for a while at least - but at what cost to your relationship with your dog? And to your dog's long term stress levels?


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

JE-UK said:


> I have never heard any trainer I respect recommend things like this. I don't mean to offend, but starving the dog to increase interest in food rewards is WAY old school, Tortoise.


You have not read the book "Purely Positive Training" by Sheila Booth. It is very good, I suggest you pick it up sometime. Withholding food and toys to increase the dog's desire for them is strongly recommended by Patricia McConnell. Both of these trainers/teachers are well-respected positive dog trainers.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

fjm said:


> I was frankly horrified to read your advice, Tortoise. OF COURSE we all need a good recall to keep our dogs safe, but punishing a puppy for doing what puppies do? Starving a pup to make him more interested in you? Pups start life wanting to be with their humans - as JE says, build up a joyful relationship, and the dog will come because you are the Best Thing in the World. There will be wobbles, especially during adolescence, but you manage and work through those.
> 
> I suspect you are at the cusp of cross over training, T - exploring reward based training, but not yet certain enough of the results to let go of methods you have used in the past. A pup is far more likely to associate being shaken and crated with you than with whatever he was doing when you grabbed him - and that is going to make him less likely to come to you next time you call. Which sets you on the slippery slope to yanks on the lead, and on to shock collars ("better than risking his life ..."), etc, etc. And they may work - for a while at least - but at what cost to your relationship with your dog? And to your dog's long term stress levels?


Yes, yes. "On the cusp" is a great description. Some trainers use the words "cynopraxic", "holistic", or more commonly, "motivational" to describe this training. It is highly effective to combine all the good thing of reward-based training and all the good things about using corrections. Plus, you get great attitude and willingness to work.

I trained this dog with "motivational" training: Check out her attitude. 




Another dog I trained, it's a heeling video. 




This dog I got before I learned positive training methods. I raised her with far too heavy hand. But, even with that she had great attitude. 




See, markers are crucial in training. If you never train a marker your dog WILL associate a punishment with the person. But, if you train markers and use them, your dog understands crystal-clear the moment and behavior that 'earned' the correction. Clicker training IS marker training. The dog understands the click marks the behavior or location, and the reward comes later. When a marker is applied to no-reward and correction, you eliminate confusion and stress. PLUS, you get the oppotunity to teach self-control to your dog. _The purpose of corrections is to not have to use them again._ My dog hears the marker, and fixes its behavior - without recieving a correction. We talk a lot about correction because it is so easy to do it wrong and damage the relationship. Doing correction wrong can ruin a dog's quality of life. Motivational training is 90% or more positive training. We talk about the 1% because doing it wrong can be devestating.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

I agree with much of what you've said, Tortoise, but I also disagree with much :smile:. But it's always worth having the conversation.

I also used to train with heavy-handed correction/punishment methods, and those methods do work. But they work at a cost. The dog doesn't learn as well, and (importantly for me), stops trying new things, because he's afraid of doing it wrong. If you watch dogs trained with punishment methods, they may be very, very responsive to cues, but in the absence of a cue or command, they stand there helplessly, afraid to try something new.

I have seen this helplessness in dogs I've owned previously.

In contrast, my 99.9% reward-trained dog LOVES to try new things. As an example, the other night in my obedience class, the trainer set a coat tree in the middle of the floor. As a fun exercise, she wanted us to teach our dogs to go around it, first clockwise, then counterclockwise, then incorporating a twist to change direction. My dog looked at the new item, and IMMEDIATELY engaged with it ... he looked at it, he went round it, he pawed it, he touched it with his nose, all with no direction from me. He knows from the training we do that SOMETHING will get him a reward, and he's willing to try stuff on his own in order to earn a microscopic bit of hot dog. He loves the game more than the reward. He mastered going round the coat tree on cue in about 10 seconds.

Now, this was a fun exercise, and doesn't MEAN anything. But if he'd pawed the coat tree and I'd corrected him, even with something as mild as a tug on the collar, I'd have spoiled that lovely eagerness he has to TRY to figure out what I want.

In terms of the withholding you mentioned in an earlier post, I think you may have misinterpreted the intention of Patricia McConnell's methods. Certainly, I train before I feed my dog his dinner; that's common sense. And I may keep back a couple of extra special toys for training particularly difficult things (like weaves!). But I am utterly sure she never recommended that you starve your dog or withhold attention for an entire day. That's abusive.

Just my personal view, but I loathe this trend for mislabeling. I hear people talk about "motivational" training, which sounds completely positive, but usually isn't. I've heard trainers who use shock collars call themselves "motivational". If you shocked me, it would motivate me for sure, but it's misleading to novice pet owners.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Trainers never agree about anything. 

I do so love a dog that will try things. They are so easy to train. But, I raised a puppy 100% no corrections. (The dog in the first video). And there was definitely a sacrifice of control. Without that 1% or 0.1% of correction, there is a glass ceiling. Some trainers admit it is there and accept it. I did not like the result, and I added in corrections to gain consistency. 

When training tricks or trying new stuff like you coat tree, I don't use any correction except a no-reward marker. It's a gentle verbal cue that means "that's not right, please move on and try something else". The other thing I would use as "correction" is to stop smiling. The last video I posted, that dog is sooo responsive I didn't need a clicker, just a smile. Very fun. There's no place for correction in the teaching phase of dog training. You are 100% correct that will shut a dog down, for a session or manybe permanently.

I use corrections for household manners. These are pretty normal. A verbal correction. A time-out on a rug or in a crate.

But when it comes to behaviors that are life-or-death, that's where I teach the behavior first with the positive training, train it, and then finish it off with what you think of correction, I would call it compulsion. It usually only takes once for a dog to decide that misbehavior is a really bad idea. I'm not walking around jerking a confused dog around (that makes me sooooo angry). I know it's worth it when I've recalled a dog off a highway. Or when a former client calls to tell me their service dog saved their life. Or when a previously aggressive dog gets a second chance at life. Or when the puppy I raised goes on to be a police K9.

And stay. I'm fussing about recal and stay. I can put previous service dogs I've trained in a sit-stay in the middle of a busy shopping mall and LEAVE the mall. Come back and there's a crowd of people staring at my dog, but he hasn't moved. Or another dog in a 4 HOUR long down in a chemistry lab. That's what I mean by "stay." I do use some correction in stay, but not until after I've done A LOT of positive training and the dog fully understands what is expected.

Some dog owners, mostly raw feeders, will fast their dogs 1 day a week. They believe it is beneficial for the dog's digestive system. Now there is no evidence to say that is true (or false). There IS research into the effects of starvation on dogs. The study I can think of starved dogs for 17 days. Maybe more. The conclusion was that dogs don't need to eat every day. They are quite resilient to fasting. So coming from that background and with a lot of exposure to trainers that only feed while training, I have used fasting to try to get a difficult dog interested in training. Never with a puppy, of course. If a dog will accept treats, then there's no place for it, IMO. But if we're talking about a dog that MUST be trained, the training should be done reward based, but the dog is refusing treats, then it can be tried. I'm not asking you to agree, but does it make sense that you can increase motivation by restricting the reward and saving it for training?

I use corrections and it has taken years to learn it well. But I see it done wrong too often, it is obvious in a dog's manner. My friend was petsitting a dog. I walk in her house and the first thing out of my mouth "Oh look, he's been beaten into good behavior". Correction doesn't teach what you want a dog to do. It teaches you what you don't want a dog to do. _Which means your dog still has no idea what it is supposed to do_, but know that trying anything is dangerous. But when a dog is taught with clicker training, trained with positive training, it's possible to finish off the behavior with correction _because_ correction teaches what you don't want the dog to do. Only this time, the dog knows what is is supposed to do, so it's not stressed out. It refines the behavior a little bit and it teaches your dog that disobedience during that behavior has a consequence. Your dog learns to make a good choice and gets rewarded.


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## Megan (May 1, 2011)

katbrat said:


> I use "come touch" with Lexi and she has gotten to the point that she will come for that every single time. The "come" command, she acts like she can't hear, doesn't understand or walks really, really slow to where you are. When we were learing "come touch" I would reward every single time with high value treats. The instructor when we did obiedence used the phrase "you will become a human Pez machine!" I always thought that was a pretty funny analogy. Now, I will give the command and sometimes she gets treats and sometimes lots of praise. We will practice this outside or just when she is in another room. *Is it just in the snow that Diamond wants to be chased?* I ask this because when Lexi first saw snow and when we have gotten a good amount of snow, it's like she would get outside in it and forgets everything she knew. I had had to be very firm and for awhile she only went out in the snow when it was deep on a leash because all she wanted to do was root around and play in it. No snow on the ground and she would listen every time, snow on the ground and it's a maybe and back on the leash she went until she was consistant. Over time and with being very consistant, she would recall with "come touch" even in the snow. Good luck with Diamond!


No it's not just in the snow that she likes to be chased, although the snow does get her extremely hyper and crazy. If it's snowing, Diamond is outside zooming around the backyard


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## Megan (May 1, 2011)

*Thanks!*

I just want to say thank you to everyone who has given me advice, I really appreciate it. I have basically started back at square one with Diamond and her recall to make sure she fully understands what I expect from her. She now has to let me grab her collar or harness before she gets the treat, and I'm hoping that this will prevent her from dashing away from me when we're outside. We have't done much practice outside yet since my backyard is still covered in snow, but I will be sure to keep everyone's advice in mind when we do progress to that. Thanks so much! I don't know what I would do without the forum


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

My trainer had us play the grab it game from when Swizzle was a puppy. I grab Swizzle's collar and he gets a yummy treat. Start off gently and get so you grab it somewhat roughly - like he is running lose about to go into the street. Swizzle loves it when I go to grab his collar and comes closer to facilitate him getting a treat. Another thing I have done with Swizzle is call him with an angry voice. His recall is good so he came (reluctantly) and then it is party and treat time. I want him to know that even if he thinks I am mad at him coming to me is always good. I think this is important because if you are in a dangerous situation it may reflect in your voice and throw her off.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Megan said:


> I just want to say thank you to everyone who has given me advice, I really appreciate it. I have basically started back at square one with Diamond and her recall to make sure she fully understands what I expect from her. She now has to let me grab her collar or harness before she gets the treat, and I'm hoping that this will prevent her from dashing away from me when we're outside. We have't done much practice outside yet since my backyard is still covered in snow, but I will be sure to keep everyone's advice in mind when we do progress to that. Thanks so much! I don't know what I would do without the forum


You can also give the treat with her between your legs. With a dog like Diamond, I have the dog _come touch me _on the recall. Add a little bit of time/duration to that touch and you won't have a problem capturing her. 

I'd rather have my dog touching or bumping me, working for a treat rather than risk the possibility of creating conflict (stress) on the recall. "I'm gonna grab you then give you a treat" might work for some dogs, but I can think of some that it would create conflict and cause slow recall or refusal.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

CT Girl said:


> Another thing I have done with Swizzle is call him with an angry voice. His recall is good so he came (reluctantly) and then it is party and treat time. I want him to know that even if he thinks I am mad at him coming to me is always good. I think this is important because if you are in a dangerous situation it may reflect in your voice and throw her off.


:amen:

I thought I was the only person who did this.  I teach my dogs that that angrier I _sound_, the bigger the reward will be. It IS lifesaving on recalls.


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## Megan (May 1, 2011)

tortoise said:


> You can also give the treat with her between your legs. With a dog like Diamond, I have the dog _come touch me _on the recall. Add a little bit of time/duration to that touch and you won't have a problem capturing her.
> 
> I'd rather have my dog touching or bumping me, working for a treat rather than risk the possibility of creating conflict (stress) on the recall. "I'm gonna grab you then give you a treat" might work for some dogs, but I can think of some that it would create conflict and cause slow recall or refusal.


Diamond does know the touch command but it's not something that she particularly enjoys doing. When I "grab" her all I'm really doing is petting her on her neck with one hand and giving her the treat with the other at the same time. It's like a double reward, treat plus petting. I'm just trying to get her used to me bending over when she comes so she doesn't take it as an invitation to play and runs away


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

tortoise said:


> :amen:
> 
> I thought I was the only person who did this.  I teach my dogs that that angrier I _sound_, the bigger the reward will be. It IS lifesaving on recalls.


I ***LOVE*** this idea!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

fjm said:


> I have also been given a simple method for teaching an emergency recall: 1 - lay in a supply of really, really good stuff your dog does not usually get - whole slices of roast beef, chicken breast - the luxury to end all luxury of dog treats. 2 - package three generous portions in sealed bags, and place them around the house, where the dog can't find them. 3 - choose a word that you will remember easily in an emergency QUICK! or DANGER! and when the dog is not expecting it call her to you using her name and the new word, and reward with the whole of the super duper treat. 4 - repeat every day for a week, by which time the emergency word should have your dog galloping to find you....


Back with BIG thanks to report I've been training this for six days and it works like a charm! I just told our dogwalker Chagall's emergency recall word and had him try using it while we were up at my neigbhor's horse farm. It worked like magic for him too! He recalled Chagall from getting too near Elvis, their miniature pony. Though there isn't a sweeter, more tolerant animal than Elvis, who's very accustomed to being around dogs, I wanted to try it out. Thanks again for the tip!:thumb:


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Right - I must find some containers that are proof against Sophy's nose, and follow my own advice!


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

I've just now found this thread and wanted to share what I've been doing. I, too, don't like fasting them to increase food value. But, my GSD is shall we say, stubborn? Anyway, Zeva gets her meals only from my hands now. I am now using a clicker (new to me, but I love it). She gets a click and treat (which is actualy her meal). I can feed her the entire meal while working on several commands. Fuss, hier, touch, etc in the 10 minutes or so it takes for her to 'work' for her food. She gets her full meal, I get in 20-30 minutes total training time in a day (two meals a day at approx 10 minutes a piece), plus whatever treats/training throughout the day. I have also found that the cheap little Home Depot tool bags are a great way to carry treats/toys/meals for training purposes. All my dogs have to see is me pulling out that bag and they all come running. 
Zeva gets all her meals out of my hands for now, no bowls to wash for a while. See, a win-win situation.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Great plan, BorderKelpie. No rule that says the dog has to eat out of a bowl. In fact, Ian Dunbar recommends throwing dinner bowls out altogether and delivering all food either in a food dispensing toy or through training.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

It's a whole new concept for me, but I can not argue the results - so fast and the dogs are so enthusastic. Zeva and my poodles are learning so much so fast. My daughter is doing this now with her 10 yo Kelpie teaching her to track. At the rate we're going, I may have several dogs title this year in performance events without even really working hard.  a much better track record than ever before. (no pun intended - lol _track_ record lol)


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## Dunkin' (Feb 16, 2012)

We are going through the same thing with Dunkin. When he is loose in the yard he becomes a wild beast. He had shoulder surgery and could not be off the leash for a over a month, so that set the training back. 

I am loving some of these tips, though. I think I need to find a more enticing treat, make sure there is still fun after the recall, and work on "touch".


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