# Puppy--socialization v parvo



## Lori G (Sep 19, 2014)

When our pup comes to us in October at the age of 10 weeks, breeder won't fly a pup before 10 weeks, I'd like to socialize her with dogs we know. In our situation this would be my son and DIL's 3 dogs. Am I understanding correctly that this is ok? They also have 10 indoor-only cats. Are there diseases that cross between species?

Their cross-species "pack" is amazing and I think it would be a great start for our pups introduction to the world.

The breeder follows the traditional vaccination schedule but can we adapt to the Dodds schedule after we get her by getting the shots a little later and separated?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Yes, you certainly can and should plan to use well mannered healthy dogs you know for social opportunities. Make sure you always supervise carefully since puppies can end up getting "run over" by accident. I also think that if you can find a good puppy only social experience it is okay to take your pup to it as long as there have been a few days since the first set of vaccines. Many Petco stores have puppy play group hours on Saturday or Sunday, but a puppy pre-K that is socially oriented is even better. Javelin started going to my obedience club with me when he was 10-11 weeks old. Mostly this was to let him meet lots of people, but it also gave him a chance to meet some dogs since I know all of the dogs who come to my classes.

As to the vaccine protocol I would defer to you asking your vet. Take a print out of Dr. Dodds schedule with you (and maybe even go before your pup comes home).


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## Sammy the spoo (Jul 7, 2016)

Hi there and what an exciting time, waiting for your new pup! I'd assume that the puppy would have one shot already?

I would be ok socializing your puppy with your son's three dogs (I just don't know enough on cats to comment) - provided they are healthy and are good natured. My puppy got carried around in the neighbourhood daily (in ergo baby often lol) so he'd get used to the smell and noise. I also felt ok to let him play with a few dogs that I felt were well-taken care of and healthy in backyards - not in parks or pet stores.

Keep us updated on your new arrival!!

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I did also carry Javelin around my neighborhood and in pet stores. I think it was Caddy who took her new pup around in a child's wagon before she could have paws on the ground. I wish I had thought of that since I do have a wagon that would have been perfect. It would have given me a chance to walk Lily or Peeves and have Javelin learn the neighborhood better.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I think that it is fine to socialize her with vaccinated healthy adult dogs, but I would keep her as far away from other puppies as possible. The reason that they get a series of vaccines is because they cannot maintain the antibodies from the first or second ones longterm, the antibodies will drop, and they are once again vulnerable. And who is likely to be carrying the disease - another puppy! Ask any Vet and they will tell you (at least in this country), that they almost never see parvo in dogs over a year old, it is always puppies who get it!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Tiny Poodles you know I respect you, but on this point I have to go with Ian Dunbar. 5.06 Parvovirus vs. Insufficient Socialization | Dog Star Daily

I had a conversation with a friend who is a vet and asked her why vets are so emphatic about keeping puppies away from contact with other puppies and dogs in controlled circumstances before immunizations are done. Her answer was that while she knows me well enough to know I would do so safely she thinks most vets figure their clients will then end up taking young puppies to places like dog parks and will put them on the floor in pet stores. They are guarding against problems and complaints from people who are not savvy enough to know the limits of what is safe.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Great points on both sides  For me, the stroller was the perfect option for Maizie to get out and about. She was able to play with our 3 adult dogs at home, and then after her second shot, she started puppy class with other vaccinated pups.


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

Yes it was me that used the wagon, but I must credit DH with the idea. It was great to be able to walk them both that way, and Abbey really enjoyed having Dolly along at her level instead of in our arms. I would definitely take the opportunity to socialize your pup with known healthy dogs, I'm not sure about the cats either. I started both Abbey and Dolly in puppy socialization classes after their second set of shots, I felt the risk was less at that point and the benefit of early socialization invaluable. Our puppy classes were extremely strict, they always disinfected the area before class and did not allow puppies from farms and of course vaccination records.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

And I should add that we will take eight week old puppies in out puppy only beginner classes at my obedience club. The upper age limit at the start of a puppy only class is 18 weeks, but we really encourage people to start before their puppy passes 12-14 weeks. We also require proof of the first set of immunizations (except rabies for younglings) to enroll in a beginner class

Caddy I gave myself a dunce slap when I saw pictures of Dolly in the wagon. Tell your husband he is very clever in my book. Wagons and strollers are great ways to get youngsters, both two legged and four legged, to see the world.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> Tiny Poodles you know I respect you, but on this point I have to go with Ian Dunbar. 5.06 Parvovirus vs. Insufficient Socialization | Dog Star Daily
> 
> I had a conversation with a friend who is a vet and asked her why vets are so emphatic about keeping puppies away from contact with other puppies and dogs in controlled circumstances before immunizations are done. Her answer was that while she knows me well enough to know I would do so safely she thinks most vets figure their clients will then end up taking young puppies to places like dog parks and will put them on the floor in pet stores. They are guarding against problems and complaints from people who are not savvy enough to know the limits of what is safe.



Ah, you know that I respect you as well, and I do agree that socialization is important, but I still have to say that being around other puppies is the worst idea because they are by far the most likely carriers of Parvo.
Though I do have to admit that I am at an advantage - my puppies have been 13 -16 weeks old when they came home, and they had plenty of socialization with other dogs and puppies at their breeder until then. Plus For many years I have had the advantage of having my own healthy vaccinated adult dogs for them to socialize with. In fact my problem has been the opposite - I need to take the new one away from home for 1:1 time or I fear that I would completely lose them to the pack!
But for sure, Trulee's feet won't touch the ground outside our home until she is 18 weeks, two weeks after her final vaccination. This is how I did it with Timi and you know how well she turned out ?
What I am debating is if it is safe to carry her to the dog park while Timi walks and runs around - could we possibly carry the virus into the home on our feet? I wonder how long parvo lives outside the host? I seem to recall that if puppies have had parvo that they will use extreme disinfecting methods in the environment...
I will carry her to many places, just wondering if we should avoid the dog park until she has full immunity...


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Great question and planning ! I agree, meet with vets now to choose one you like if you don't have one already. Would not worry about illnesses from indoor kitties. Meaning, I would not hesitate to bring in a puppy to resident house kitties, and have done it.

The puppy kindergarden that is socialization oriented rather than obedience oriented is where I'd also take puppy at the earliest possible moment after she arrives home .


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Streetcar said:


> Great question and planning ! I agree, meet with vets now to choose one you like if you don't have one already. Would not worry about illnesses from indoor kitties. Meaning, I would not hesitate to bring in a puppy to resident house kitties, and have done it.
> 
> The puppy kindergarden that is socialization oriented rather than obedience oriented is where I'd also take puppy at the earliest possible moment after she arrives home .


Yes, puppy social not an obedience focused class.

Tiny Poodles we all have to make decisions for ourselves based on evidence and personal comfort.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> And I should add that we will take eight week old puppies in out puppy only beginner classes at my obedience club. The upper age limit at the start of a puppy only class is 18 weeks, but we really encourage people to start before their puppy passes 12-14 weeks. We also require proof of the first set of immunizations (except rabies for younglings) to enroll in a beginner class
> 
> Caddy I gave myself a dunce slap when I saw pictures of Dolly in the wagon. Tell your husband he is very clever in my book. Wagons and strollers are great ways to get youngsters, both two legged and four legged, to see the world.



I know that most training places will take 8 week old puppies, but sorry to say, I don't approve of it, and would not take my dog until I am certain that she has full immunity.


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## Lori G (Sep 19, 2014)

Thanks for the reassurance. Our situation is a bit different as we are on an extended RV trip and will be receiving the pup mid-trip. She will arrive while we are in New Orleans visiting my son. (Just by coincidence, it will be almost exactly two years ago since visiting there when our Aussie died. ? So, in a way, I feel like this is all coming full circle, and somehow, Gracie will be with us as we get the new pup. And by the way, I've always known losing a pet is hard but it still surprises me as, almost two years later, tears fill my eyes as I write this.) 

So, anyway, we will be there for 2-3 weeks with the new pup, then hit the road again and arrive to our winter campground in AZ 7-10 days later when she is about 14-15 weeks old. But I do have vet visits planned. As soon as she arrives I will take her to my son's vet. He is AMAZING with my son's menagerie and he was wonderful with us when we had to say goodbye to Gracie. And when we land in AZ we have an amazing vet who I discovered last winter when our cat was sick. I told her last winter while dealing with the cat illness that I'd really like her to be the vet for our poodle...and that's when her eyes lit up and she informed me she has a Spoo and its her favorite breed! I knew she was the vet I'd want! So anyway, it's that in between time of traveling that will be the biggest challenge with socialization. If we can get a solid two weeks of fun with their pack, then jump right into a puppy class in AZ, I'm hoping we'll be in good shape. Those 7-10 days might have minimal animal socialization because we will only be meeting stranger dogs of which I will be a little wary. At RV parks we've met some really nice dogs while others tend to be under socialized ankle biters. ? We were living this same lifestyle 15 years ago when we got Gracie so this isn't new to me but I am making MUCH MORE effort with the pup as we plan to train her as my DH service dog.

Also, mostly because of this wonderful forum and other internet resources, I'm a much better informed puppy mom than ever before.

I didn't know about the weekend puppy classes at Petsmart! I will check that out! There are some great dog clubs in the Phoenix area I plan to get involved with too. They offer puppy and obedience classes, etc.

The puppies are due this weekend so this is all getting real very quickly! After so long without a dog...?...I'm very ready for the hole in my heart to fill up with puppy love. LOL

Sorry this has gotten so long but BTW, I do plan to introduce Kailani (new pup's name) to my son's pack one dog at a time. But their pack of dogs and cats really are amazing. Their cats act like dogs. Cracks me up every time we visit!


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## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

I'm with lilly_cd_re on this one. The socialization window closes before most pups are finished with their vaccinations, and I absolutely would never wait to socialize a puppy with either people or other dogs until after that window is closed. I think what most people forget is that socialization doesn't mean exposing your dog to as many dogs and people as humanly (or dogly) possible, it means exposing them to lots of people, places, situations, dogs, other animals, etc and ensuring POSITIVE experiences. It doesn't mean take your dog to the dog park immediately and let them have at it. Socializing puppies requires using some common sense. Don't take your 8 week old puppy to the dog park - that's a great place to get an infectious disease or get attacked by another dog. Don't take your puppy to the pet store or other places where many dogs frequent and let them walk around on the ground. But absolutely get them out to meet people and be exposed to lots of different places, sounds, smells, etc, and find some well-socialized and healthy dogs to socialize your pup with other dogs. I like puppy kindergarten classes to start working on manners and socializing, and I plan to take all my puppies to one. To me, the risks of a poorly socialized puppy outweigh the risk of exposure to illness, assuming that the owner uses some sense when it comes to socializing.


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## cecethepoodle (Aug 23, 2014)

Everyone has some great points on this....

Parvovirus can last in the environment 6 months to 1 year..and a place like a dog park unless they require dogs to have UTD immunizations to enter is probably reinfected often..def not a place for a puppy. There are also SOOO many owners who think their dog "is just playing" but is actually very aggressive and a bad example. Not to mention the ones who weren't socialized properly themselves and play too rough and don't pick up on another dog saying no. 

I would also stay away from places like Petco etc until fully immunized. 

If your sons dogs are fully vaccinated and you know them, I am sure that would be fine. Socialization is so important, but just stay away from places where it isn't controlled whether the other dogs are vaccinated.


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## WinnieJane (May 6, 2016)

The vets in our practice are divided on this one. On our first puppy visit, I was encouraged to socialize our girl - I did so with a healthy dog who does not go to daycare. I also took her for a walk on our block, where she did not meet other dogs but likely sniffed evidence that they were there. She ended up with a cough and I saw another vet at the practice who was aghast that I had given her any exposure to dogs before all shots are complete. (Of course, she might have gotten the cough on her first visit to the vet!)

Catherine, the Ian Dunbar link is an interesting shift. In his Before and After puppy books, he is dead set against exposing the puppies to other dogs before shots are finished. At any rate, we are starting puppy class next week, before finishing all shots.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

WinnieJane Ian Dunbar would not recommend socialization with adult dogs whose health status is unknown but he does strongly recommend puppy only social "classes" for puppies starting well before 12 weeks of age. 

And cece I think it is fine to take a puppy into a pet or feed store if it is carried when young and not well immunized.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> WinnieJane Ian Dunbar would not recommend socialization with adult dogs whose health status is unknown but he does strongly recommend puppy only social "classes" for puppies starting well before 12 weeks of age.
> 
> And cece I think it is fine to take a puppy into a pet or feed store if it is carried when young and not well immunized.



That still makes no sense to me - most any adult dog is going to be vaccinated for Parvo. 99.9% of Parvo cases seen in this country are in puppies - why would you want them around puppies who may be carrying the disease when it is almost certain that an adult dog won't be a carrier.
Trulee gets her last shot tomorrow, yay!


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Streetcar said:


> Great question and planning ! I agree, meet with vets now to choose one you like if you don't have one already. Would not worry about illnesses from indoor kitties. Meaning, I would not hesitate to bring in a puppy to resident house kitties, and have done it.
> 
> The puppy kindergarden that is socialization oriented rather than obedience oriented is where I'd also take puppy at the earliest possible moment after she arrives home .


I agree with that as well. Just as long as the kitties are strictly indoor cats that never go outside.


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## Charleeann67:) (Nov 6, 2017)

I have some of the same questions and all these replies are a great help. Still, I'm getting my pup only three or four days after the first shots by the breeder due to her leaving to show her dogs and not being able to leave the pups home plus she is delivering the pup I do not choose to a new home at the show.

Ok, my thoughts are that there were only two pups in the litter so they got a ton of mom's immunity. Getting the first shots at 7 weeks, in my mind and from reading, means that the vaccines could land on the mom's immunity and make them useless or negated. The second set, which I'm going to have done 3-4 weeks from the date of the first set (not including rabies) will put the pup around 10-11 weeks of age. 
Will the pup be protected from parvo etc. at that time?
In the meantime, I live with my daughter and son in law who have two adult weiner dogs that are up to date on shots that the pup and can socialize with, with supervision and then there are always walks.
Thoughts? I really want to enroll in puppy classes and attend socializations before that window closes.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

It could be a bit better if the first shots were closer to 8 weeks so that they wouldn't interfere with maternal immunity (which will start to wane pretty after weaning, not on leaving breeder's). 

Is parvo a big problem in your area? If it is err on the side of caution. If not then your plan should be just fine. Carry pup all around no matter what to see people, dogs, cars, cats, kids on bikes even if he isn't putting his feet on the ground.

Javelin got his first round of shots at Delana's vet when he was right around 8 weeks old. She didn't do lepto, but I wanted it since we have lots of it here, so he got that around 9 weeks old from my vet and then we waited for the second round for a few weeks (forget exact dates). But I started taking him places when he was 9 1/2 weeks old. He was carried many places, but I did allow him to put feet on the floor at my obedience club. I know the dogs and people and know they take care of their dogs. I wanted him to see the environment there.


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## Charleeann67:) (Nov 6, 2017)

Not sure if parvo is a big issue or not, guess the vet will know. I know I do not want heartworm meds or a tick collar. Going to use an all natural spray that is cedar and peppermint (I think) instead. In three years I've only had one tick on my leg and it was because I crawled around the whole house weeding the landscaping.
I'm pretty excited about the holistic vet I have talked to. Hoping I'm as impressed in person as I was over our long conversation!


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