# Sable, brindle, or "seal" puppy?



## BigMoppyHead (Jul 2, 2015)

We came across this puppy in the search to add a second standard to our family. The breeder believes she is an abstract sable, but added that some of her spoo-breeding friends suggested she might be brindle or "seal" (which I haven't heard of). What do you think? And what sort of color might she turn into as an adult?
Thanks all. We're still learning our spoo color basics. She's cute, though. Gotta admit that. ?


----------



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Cute? Sure. Well bred? No. If you are still in Trabuco Canyon, you have your choice of some really good breeders down there. Jaset puppies are the same price or less than this puppy!


----------



## BigMoppyHead (Jul 2, 2015)

Thank you! I will look at Jaset Poodles and appreciate the input. I am more curious about the color and trying to educate myself--not necessarily looking to buy this puppy. But her color looked curious to me. Is it the color that tells you she isn't well bred? Or other features? I gather that "seal" is a fading black? If she is a seal, is that in itself a sign of poorly matched parents? Thank you for the response. Interesting!


----------



## BigMoppyHead (Jul 2, 2015)

I see that Jaset Poodles is in the high desert here in CA. Their dogs are gorgeous. Thank you for the referral! No standard puppies at the moment, but I will contact them.


----------



## BigMoppyHead (Jul 2, 2015)

I'm still curious about the color of the puppy in the photos above.


----------



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

ALL puppies are cute, but a well bred puppy is even better....puppyfind is NOT the place to find puppies with health tested/DNA tested breeding stock to insure your pup has a chance not to develope some of the heart breaking inherited diseases that Poodles can be a victim of!! Please read our sticky "Buying a Puppy Safely-The Basics" in the 'Poodle Talk' thread.
Another hint is to find your PCA (Poodle Club of America) affiliate and ask for Breeder recommendations! Good Luck finding your perfect-for-you pup!

As far as color for that pup....the pictures are not detailed enough to tell but I am going to tentively say that it could possibly be a sable, and if it were a brindle there would be a distinct patterning of color...take a look at what a brindle or sable looks like........ Google it!


----------



## BigMoppyHead (Jul 2, 2015)

Thank you. I'm not buying this pup and I would never buy a dog off Puppyfinder or whatever it's called. I'm interested in learning about Poodle colors and she doesn't seem to fit neatly into sable/brindle. I had never heard of "seal" and wondered if that's what this could be. That's all. I'm asking about colors and her coloring was strange (at least to my uneducated eye). I know all about health testing, references, the health registry, etc. I've spent hundreds of hours reading on Poodle forum--no exaggeration!  I'm just asking about this odd coloring. NOT buying this puppy. I've trained horses for much of my life and always done extrnsive research before purchasing a dog or horse. Thanks!


----------



## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

BigMoppyHead said:


> Thank you. I'm not buying this pup and I would never buy a dog off Puppyfinder or whatever it's called. I'm interested in learning about Poodle colors and she doesn't seem to fit neatly into sable/brindle. I had never heard of "seal" and wondered if that's what this could be. That's all. I'm asking about colors and her coloring was strange (at least to my uneducated eye). I know all about health testing, references, the health registry, etc. I've spent hundreds of hours reading on Poodle forum--no exaggeration!  I'm just asking about this odd coloring. NOT buying this puppy. I've trained horses for much of my life and always done extrnsive research before purchasing a dog or horse. Thanks!


There is no such color in poodles as "seal". Seal is not a recognized color, or color combination for poodles. Sounds like a made up term to me. Like "seal point" in siamese, which is a correct color description in some cats. Another color term that some unscrupulous poodle breeders use is "merle" . . .while there are merle poodles being sold, be aware that they are NOT purebred. Merle is not a color/pattern that occurs in poodles so any Merle poodle is likely an aussie/poodle mix. Merle's come with a host of their own potential genetic health issues.

BTW just Google London, Standard Poodle.......he will take your breath away, and he is a Jaset poodle. 

Enjoy your puppy search.


----------



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Okay, firstly, thank you for not taking offense to my comment  I'm glad you're located near Jaset! I talked with Chris on the phone and she's very nice. I was interested in getting a puppy from her before I got Maizie, but the litter didn't take. Anyway, this "seal" puppy has large, round eyes, a short, broad muzzle for a female, and a thin coat. No idea what the color really is, could be sable as Molly suggested.


----------



## BigMoppyHead (Jul 2, 2015)

Thank you, all. I looked at Jaset's London. Holy moly! ? And thank you very much for the explanation of "seal" (as I suspected) and features that indicate less than ideal breeding. Very interesting! I am educating myself and appreciate your capable assistance.


----------



## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

Seal is very much a real color! 

however, very little is known about the color. It's hypothesized to be some form of incompletely dominant black, which allows some of the base brown to "leak through". Its not predictably inherited from one generation to the next, and I've also never heard of it being identified in poodles. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist in poodles, but it does lower the odds of this puppy being a true seal. 

My guess re: the color of that puppy is a heavily shaded sable (often called a black sable). It's tough to tell from those pictures though!


----------



## BigMoppyHead (Jul 2, 2015)

Oh, and to MollyMuiMa: I'm familiar with basic Poodle colors, but had never heard of "seal" with regard to Poodles. I had the good fortune to participate in a Standard Poodle Parade in San Diego last week, in fact, and every color under the rainbow was in attendance--80 Standards in one place! I have seen numerous brindles, etc., in person.


----------



## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Perhaps I should have been more specific when I stated that "seal" is not a color in poodles.

If you try to register a poodle with AKC there is no option to choose "seal" as a color choice within AKC.....therefore, it is not a color which is recognized by the AKC.

While it may exist on puppies/dogs, it is not a recognized color, by AKC standards.


----------



## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

BigMoppyHead said:


> Oh, and to MollyMuiMa: I'm familiar with basic Poodle colors, but had never heard of "seal" with regard to Poodles. I had the good fortune to participate in a Standard Poodle Parade in San Diego last week, in fact, and every color under the rainbow was in attendance--80 Standards in one place! I have seen numerous brindles, etc., in person.


The poodle parade in San Diego must have been a wonderful sight to behold!


----------



## Beautiful Blue (Apr 24, 2017)

Yes, she *is *cute. I hope she finds a wonderful home...
You mentioned the breeder... Knowing the color of the sire and dam, and their parentage, would help predict the cleared coat.


----------



## BigMoppyHead (Jul 2, 2015)

The Poodle Parade was incredible! We smiled for days afterward. This was the inaugural, but it will be an annual event going forward. I expect it will grow quickly. Wouldn't be surprised if there are several hundred Spoos next year! It will be wonderful to have a Southern CA event. The Carmel Poodle event is a long drive and lodging is very pricey up there! 
Thanks for the clarification on coloring, Viking Queen. Yes, I had never heard seal in reference to Poodles. 
Regarding the puppy's parents: Mother is a red. Father is a silver. I don't know anything further up the line.


----------



## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

I've never heard of 'seal' in poodles, and I've been around a while. 

Pattern genetics make my head spin, but if you want to learn what colors and patterns we can currently test for, Vetgen's explanations are as clear as any I've seen. For basic color genetics (black, brown, cream/red), see their Chart B. 

VetGen: Veterinary Genetic Services - Canine - List of Services - Coat Color

As far as your new puppy, I'd contact the Poodle Club of Southern California.


----------



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

BigMoppyHead said:


> The Poodle Parade was incredible! We smiled for days afterward. This was the inaugural, but it will be an annual event going forward. I expect it will grow quickly. Wouldn't be surprised if there are several hundred Spoos next year! It will be wonderful to have a Southern CA event. The Carmel Poodle event is a long drive and lodging is very pricey up there!
> Thanks for the clarification on coloring, Viking Queen. Yes, I had never heard seal in reference to Poodles.
> Regarding the puppy's parents: Mother is a red. Father is a silver. I don't know anything further up the line.


HOLY TOMOLY! I never even heard about the parade! Wish I would have been there! Where did they have it? The only place I know of that they have 'dog events' is either Del Mar or at Liberty Station (old MCRD) everything else is farther north like in Valley Center or Escondido!
Who sponsored it and where do I find out more about it?????? :argh:



EDIT!!!! I just looked it up! Rancho Bernardo/Poway ............and ONLY STANDARD POODLES can register? !!!! Not fair to other sizes!!!! A 'Poodle Parade' should include all, not just standards imo!!!


----------



## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

MollyMuiMa said:


> EDIT!!!! I just looked it up! Rancho Bernardo/Poway ............and ONLY STANDARD POODLES can register? !!!! Not fair to other sizes!!!! A 'Poodle Parade' should include all, not just standards imo!!!


Oh, man... a Poodle Parade sounds like a blast!
You'll just have to train your girls to walk on stilts.


----------



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

MollyMuiMa, come to Poodle Day in Carmel in October! There is a parade for all sizes plus poodle mixes


----------



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

zooeysmom said:


> MollyMuiMa, come to Poodle Day in Carmel in October! There is a parade for all sizes plus poodle mixes


I've thought often about Carmel (wished I could go)...........but it is just too far for me to drive in my health circumstances.....:^(


----------



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm sorry, MollyMuiMa  I so wish you and Molly could go.


----------



## BigMoppyHead (Jul 2, 2015)

MollyMuiMa: the Rancho Bernardo Poodle Parade/Extravaganza was opened to Poodles of all sizes *after* the flyer was posted. In fact, other breeds were welcomed, as well. Come and join us next year! Do you live in SoCal? Here is a little guy who ROCKED the parade and bowled everyone over. Rufus is invited back by special demand!


----------



## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Seal is a specific term it refers to a KB- dog that for some reason has the A series gene pattern "leaking" through so they show a pattern but not a clear crisp pattern. We have a few color tested poodles with odd colors that have turned out to be seals in the color genetic groups. At least one is a very high quality poodle. I bet at least a few have been registered as blacks and sold as pet quality bad blacks. 

To find out if a puppy is sable or brindle more experienced breeders working with multi-colors will shave the puppies back half so any stripes will show if it is a brindle.


----------



## Scorteal (Jul 3, 2020)

BigMoppyHead said:


> The Poodle Parade was incredible! We smiled for days afterward. This was the inaugural, but it will be an annual event going forward. I expect it will grow quickly. Wouldn't be surprised if there are several hundred Spoos next year! It will be wonderful to have a Southern CA event. The Carmel Poodle event is a long drive and lodging is very pricey up there!
> Thanks for the clarification on coloring, Viking Queen. Yes, I had never heard seal in reference to Poodles.
> Regarding the puppy's parents: Mother is a red. Father is a silver. I don't know anything further up the line.


AHA! Someone just suggested our Toy Poodle is seal. He mom was silver, dad was red. She’s not AKC. She’s our family pet. I had never seen any other poodle colored like her till the photos attached to this thread. We love her to bits! We call her the rainbow poodle since her coat is ever changing. Maybe she’s seal and not sable after all.


----------



## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Why, oh why, do people want to purposely breed for characteristics that are opposed to the standard of the breed? Poodles are supposed to be one solid color at the skin (in other words it's OK that silvers and apricots vary in shade from the skin out). For decades, responsible breeders have done their best to breed to the standard. When a breeding turns up an abstract, the breeding is not repeated - in fact the breeder probably will not breed from those parents at all. 

In almost every breed of dog, there are people who deliberately breed for non-standard characteristics so they can advertise the results as "rare".

I realize that a dog with non-standard characteristics can still be a wonderful pet, but that is exactly what he or she is - a wonderful pet that should not be bred.

I hope I am not offending anyone. Please realize I am an old poop with nearly 50 years of owning, breeding, training, and showing poodles, so I am, indeed, pretty opinionated!


----------



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Scorteal said:


> AHA! Someone just suggested our Toy Poodle is seal. He mom was silver, dad was red. She’s not AKC. She’s our family pet. I had never seen any other poodle colored like her till the photos attached to this thread. We love her to bits! We call her the rainbow poodle since her coat is ever changing. Maybe she’s seal and not sable after all.
> View attachment 467877


She's a real cutie! Welcome to Poodle Forum. 

I love watching colour changes, so I hope you'll continue to share photos here.


----------



## Scorteal (Jul 3, 2020)

Johanna said:


> Why, oh why, do people want to purposely breed for characteristics that are opposed to the standard of the breed? Poodles are supposed to be one solid color at the skin (in other words it's OK that silvers and apricots vary in shade from the skin out). For decades, responsible breeders have done their best to breed to the standard. When a breeding turns up an abstract, the breeding is not repeated - in fact the breeder probably will not breed from those parents at all.
> 
> In almost every breed of dog, there are people who deliberately breed for non-standard characteristics so they can advertise the results as "rare".
> 
> ...


No worries. You’ve worked hard at your trade. Major respect! Mine is spayed. She is a beloved pet. Her Dad was AKC, Mom was not. The owner of the parents was very upfront about that. If I had been looking for a show pup or breeding, we would have purchased for that intent. I was more interested in what her coloring actually is. Other than the pictures at the beginning of this thread, I had yet to see a pup color like our Zooey. Now, I feel like I’ve got the answer. I had never heard of Seal till today.


----------



## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Scorteal said:


> No worries. You’ve worked hard at your trade. Major respect! Mine is spayed. She is a beloved pet. Her Dad was AKC, Mom was not. The owner of the parents was very upfront about that. If I had been looking for a show pup or breeding, we would have purchased for that intent. I was more interested in what her coloring actually is. Other than the pictures at the beginning of this thread, I had yet to see a pup color like our Zooey. Now, I feel like I’ve got the answer. I had never heard of Seal till today.


She is a unique color, and I would agree with seal.


----------

