# New Groomer ?



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Well yesterday my sister and I went another dog boutique that had doggy day care and grooming. Well everyone was nice but they where those Hollywood type people who thought they knew everything , they would not let my sister and I get a word in ( which is so annoying) ( I know they talked about us when we left too lol ) 

Anyways they saw Enzo and went crazy over him and we told him we will be showing him. One of the employees was saying o we have a person who grooms show cuts… and he called her out to look at Enzo. She was bitchy saying o “his hair is dry and needs conditioning and he does not look right as in his coat not being neat ( he has not had a bath for a week does she really think someone will keep the dog fluffy for days …) 

Anyways we might have her groom Enzo to smooth him out only she said it will be $85 my think is she said his coat is dry which is not. I am afraid she will condition his coat to be soft and fluffy … I have been told several Times that you do not want a poodles coat super soft. IMO Enzos coat feels right, it thick and slightly coarse it is also soft but not soft as maybe as a pet who gets deep conditioned all the time. I am also afraid she will not cut him right.

Should we just finish the job ourselves ? because at the end of the month we have two breeders that will help us and they will probably smooth him out and set a pattern for free..

His show is sat and the groomer could do him Thursday.


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

If she really seems like she knows what she's doing I'd go for it, and $85 imo isn't bad for a show cut. That's about the standard price for spoos in the salon that I work at and we don't really do show cuts. In fact most of the standards we see are matted to the skin and get a shave down, no exceptions. I won't torture a dog. I would at the least ask for references and check up on them, if she does show cuts she should have something to show for it.

I have also heard not to condition a dogs coat that you want fluffy. I don't use conditioner on bichons or poodles that are getting really fluffed out for scissor work. I believe the conditioner weights the hair down when trying to make it stand out straight.

I do take a little bit of conditioner (I use Tomlyns nova pearls) and mix it with some water in a spray bottle and i'll spray vegas coat while fluff drying just lightly to try and avoid breaking coat while brushing it out. It makes him feel soft but not TOO soft and his fur will still fluff out.

He isn't a show dog though so I just do it for kicks, lol. I like him all nice and fluffy.


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Does she have any pics of other show dogs she has done? Better yet pics of dogs she's groomed, competing (and doing well) in a show? Has she ever shown herself or worked with/for a breeder or handler? I personally would have to see her work, before I let her groom a show dog.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Yes I want to see pictures of her work , before we send Enzo to her. But I know that the groomer my get offended cause like I said she was all bitchy snooty. When we walked in she was grooming a soft coated wheaten terrier in a “show groom”. 

That fact that she was telling us his hair is dry lets me know she does not know what poodle hair should feel like…..
So I will call maybe next week and ask if she has pictures of the “show” poodles she has done if she does not have any I will not go to her. 
Also its only $85 because she is just smoothing him out for a cut I bet its in the hundred range


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

I paid $35.00 for a show groomer to set pattern on Sting a few months ago and she let me stay and watch so I could learn. I bathed and dryed him at home and she clipped him and mentored me. Also, your right that you dont want the coat too soft and Enzo's coat looks very health in every pic you have posted of him lately. (not that it didn't before but Im just talking about him now)

I would say to tell the snooty lady to kiss off and wait for a nice person that truely wants to help you. Not just take your money and complain about his coat. Seriously, what more is she possibly going to do??? He is already well clipped so your paying $85.00 for her to bath, dry and trim a few hairs. I dont think its worth it in my opinion.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Oh Roxy, 

Ask Susan to see the freshly groomed pics of Bonser she just sent me. He's her male in Texas that out showing. He is absoluely gorgeous (in puppy clip)and you can really see where the lines should be and what to improve on. Im printing them out and posting them onto my mirror to help me with my own outline on Sting. lol He's true motivation on what I want to achieve with Stings clip. You'll love him too!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> I would say to tell the snooty lady to kiss off and wait for a nice person that truely wants to help you. Not just take your money and complain about his coat. Seriously, what more is she possibly going to do??? He is already well clipped so your paying $85.00 for her to bath, dry and trim a few hairs. I dont think its worth it in my opinion.


Yes she was like ummm no I need to bath and dry so I can get him super fluffy to cut him right...........
Cause my sister asked her can we just bring him bathe and dried already.

Thats hollywood for you LOL the owner ask if me and my sisters where 4H girls lol I didn't even know what that was until he explained it . I mean I have no problems with the owner he was nice and giving us tips on showing. 

its just the groomer was snooty

I think we will just wait because I don't want to spend 85 when all we want her to do is smooth him out. The sisters we have are temp scissors we got from groomers.com they are by heritage.

I will just buy some steel combs so it will help my sister out.

I saw this on youtube 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWf7hkp4AhY


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> Oh Roxy,
> 
> Ask Susan to see the freshly groomed pics of Bonser she just sent me. He's her male in Texas that out showing. He is absoluely gorgeous (in puppy clip)and you can really see where the lines should be and what to improve on. Im printing them out and posting them onto my mirror to help me with my own outline on Sting. lol He's true motivation on what I want to achieve with Stings clip. You'll love him too!


Ok I will email her today for the pics thanks !


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Ive done rear angle's like that on Eli and it actually does work well and is very easy. She was really making me nervous with all the clipper usage on the legs and side of the ribs. I would not recommend the clipper on the side of the legs or rib area though. I thought she was going to mess up her clip there for a minute. lol The final leg result looked good however.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

I forgot to mention (im super excited) that I finally ordered CC products just today. I hear they work wonder's and Sting's hair can flop over sometimes so I got the thick and thicker, black on black, a conditioner and the ice on ice. Its a "travel pack" for like $10 bucks. I'll tell you if I see a big difference. 

I think they have one for red toned dogs as well. Anyhow, I'll keep in touch and relay how I liked them. What are you using now on Enzo?


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

Roxy, I wouldn't do it either... 85 dolllars is a great price, for a handscissor (loads cheaper than the 130 and up I charge), but you seem to have concerns on what she will and won't do. Unless you can stay, which may not be possible for insurance reasons, I wouldn't leave him with her. Your post gave me a kind of funky feeling. 

Does she actualy show poodles?? Unless she does or has done so heavily OR maybe is a breeder I most definitly WOULDN'T allow her to trim Enzo at all. I think that's asking for trouble...

I do show clips in my salon, BUT I won't clip a show dog. I won't ready your dog for a the ring unless I'm the one showing it, (or you're a friend). It is just to easy to mess something up. Show grooming is less about getting the correct pattern on the dog than it is about making that pattern work for the dog you're clipping. You can't do that without really being an expert on the breed standard so you can clip the dog to his/her best advantage. 

It's to easy to disregaurd what an owner says they want because you think that you know better and go ahead and use the shampoo you had in mind, or condition the coat if you feel like it, or trim it shorter or leave it longer than they wanted.... All in the name of you being the expert. I think every groomer is guilty of this at one time or another, I know I've done it in the past, and normaly it wouldn't present such a huge problem... in your case though it could set you wayyyy back


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

SECRETO said:


> I forgot to mention (im super excited) that I finally ordered CC products just today. I hear they work wonder's and Sting's hair can flop over sometimes so I got the thick and thicker, black on black, a conditioner and the ice on ice. QUOTE]
> 
> I hated the thick and thicker and the superhold, I had trouble keeping topknots up but some people swear by it


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

WonderPup said:


> Roxy, I wouldn't do it either... 85 dolllars is a great price, for a handscissor (loads cheaper than the 130 and up I charge), but you seem to have concerns on what she will and won't do. Unless you can stay, which may not be possible for insurance reasons, I wouldn't leave him with her. Your post gave me a kind of funky feeling.
> 
> Does she actualy show poodles?? Unless she does or has done so heavily OR maybe is a breeder I most definitly WOULDN'T allow her to trim Enzo at all. I think that's asking for trouble...


I agree 
its not the right price even for around here (NC ) 
and unless she has a bunch of pictures around I wouldnt let her touch him. Dont worry about offending her, if she screws him up, she sets you back months. the whole "dry hair " thing doesnt sit right either, I have seen pictures of him and didnt think he looked dry at all. 

there was a girl who worked at the same shop that i used to that did "show clips"(continental) and the dogs looked rediculous the rosettes were completly on the sides of the dog,and too far back and the Jacket was too far up. If she doesnt have experience with showing or grooming winning poodles , run, run far far away :sheep:


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## cuddleparty (Apr 27, 2009)

Roxy - I think when we are dealing with our babies we become subjective to people and their opinions. If the A-list groomer had said that Enzo's hair was fine, would you still think she was being a stuck up bitch? Maybe not...
You yourself have said that they are these Hollywood know-it-all types.. snooty, self-righteous, etc etc... If you get a bad vibe from them then I would personally suggest not giving them a second thought.  IF you decide to bring Enzo there for grooming of show coat and they mess up.. well.. then it's really gonna kick off isn't it?!
You know your Enzo the best and if it is your opinion that his coat quality is fine.. then you should go with that. If you are willing to put trust in this groomer who does it for a living (but that's not to say she knows best), then that is at your own risk.

Let us know how it turns out!


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## SophieGirl (Jul 17, 2009)

Talking about conditioner; You want the poodle to keep a soft coat in between shows i have heard so inbetween baths i apply mane and tail to Sophies coat. I really notice a differance in the grooming and the way it clips. the thing is with their hair being like ours, we use those high powered dryers on them so it splits their ends and it helps to prevent matting which is important, even though i spend an hour per day just going through her coat to keep it comb free.I think if you apply conditioner all the time it can make the coat flat, but every so often just to keep the coat healthy i think is good. I will probably only apply once more before her show in three weeks. Tell me if this is wrong.


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## stepanelle (Aug 3, 2009)

Hi,

OK I only just signed up to this forum; but I have shown my poodles in Uk for nearly 19 years. I also groom my friends standards for show. 

If an actual show/breeder has offered to do your Enzo before the show; that has got to be tempting! Does this include any extra clipping to help you with your lines?

Don't worry too much about his coat being too soft at his very young age. A poodles coat will not mature until around 2 years. 

I normally condition before shampooing! I know that sounds mad! It works for my kids, use a pin brush on all the long hair (no bobbles on the ends) and a slicker for finishing and shorter bits.

The coat absolutely has to be completely straight everywhere. If you bath him the night before and he looks kind of curly the next day; you are going to have to spray him down and blast his coat straight again.

Make sure he has no knots anywhere and this will give the showperson a very nice canvas to work on. I only wish I could zoom over there to help you!!

My kids are on the beach and in the pond etc. etc. most days I blow them through everytime! That coat has to be treated like silk! Blow them through with the dryer on lukewarm so not to cause damage and spray spray spray all the time ice on ice or similar.

I truly hope this helps, please don't think I am pushy brit! But my passion is poodles and grooming!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

stepanelle said:


> Hi,
> 
> OK I only just signed up to this forum; but I have shown my poodles in Uk for nearly 19 years. I also groom my friends standards for show.
> 
> ...



Thanks for you reply , I posted this months ago and decided we don't need that groomer at all. We have help from a top poodle handler so he has been telling us what to do with his coat. I am just now understanding that climate and location has a lot to do with how you groom you poodle. 

We condition Enzo also but not to the point where its too soft this I what I was referring to when I said the groomer state his coat was dry. In fact it was soft enough. We condition Enzo because its dry in CA .

I dunno if you seen the picture of Enzo after a pro trimmed him for us ? if not here it is 










I can not get how to do the top knot really when people try to type out instructions lol but I have done it my own way. I don't know where to put second band at.

I will post some pictures of how I do it maybe you and others can guide me more.


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## thestars (May 2, 2009)

I AGREE with Wonderpup. I'd be careful with that groomer. Not only pictures, I'd ask for Poodle people references of Breeders or handlers that she has cut poodles for. AKC Handler Grooming goes for $150 in middle america. The ones that I have talked with and have provided me with instruction definately use conditioner and are proponents for it. I got a few different kinds from their recommendations.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_I use Mane & Tail to condition after a bath. As long as the dogs aren't showing, I use it after each bath which is 7 - 10 days. If they are going to show, I stop using the conditioner at least 2 weeks before so that it will be stripped from the coat and let it blow out full and straight. I do also believe it weighs the coat down so it needs to be removed to get a really got cut.

Taffy has soft, fine hair that does not stand well or blow out full. Any suggestions in what to use to volumeize her coat before her first show?

Good luck with getting Enzo's clip done. Would love to see how he looks afterward.
_


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

Roxy,

If you decide you want a professional groomer to do a showcut, there is a fantastic groomer in the valley. She competes with her silver standard in grooming competitions, shows her miniature poodles at AKC shows, so she really knows her poodles. The name of the grooming shop is Shampoodle and the groomer's name is Mimi. Just in case..... 

Edited to add that she is not cheap, but she is good.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Thanks for the recommendation poodle lover , but We are going to keep using Allan Chambers. We will have him put Enzo in clip in 2 months. I can't wait to see it ! 

Spoospirit We use this product called mega tek and leave in in some times for a week then rinse it out when he gets a second bath. On show days we use clarifying shampoo and a rinse conditioner then a volumeizer mousse not a lot just a little bit. 

When we band Enzo some times I use the mega tek or I just you shea butter. 

For taffy you can try a volumizing shampoo and conditioner or a mousse. The one we tried is by John fridea ( blue bottle) I forgot what other one we used. It really makes a difference on the coat especially the top knot. 

The ones we used don't leave any residue at all.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Here you go spoospirit try this stuff 

http://www.cherrybrook.com/index.cf...icker_Volumizing_Protein_by_Chris_Christensen

I think he has a mousse also but its not listed on the cherrybrook website. 

I used this ( human shampoo) for clarifying 
http://www.drugstore.com/products/p...am=herbal_essences_degunkif&CAWELAID=61280990

this one for volume ( we has the conditioner and shampoo) It was buy one get one free at the time lol

http://www.e-sen-cia.com/vol-shampoo.htm

then this 

http://www.johnfrieda.com/products/...ection=products&subSection=luxVolume&lineID=8


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

Another great site for all the showdog/grooming need is this:

http://www.showdogstore.com/

Right now they are having a $10.00 off coupon with $100.00 purchase, which pretty much covers the shipping. Here's the code:

SDS123109


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## stepanelle (Aug 3, 2009)

Wow, loving the picture of Enzo, I saw the post was a while ago after I posted!

He has been done beautifully! For the 2nd band, does he really need one yet? I don't start putting a 2nd band in until the coat really flops forward, then for a standard just put one in straight behind the front one using abour 1/2 inch of coat when you have pulled the front one out into a bend then attach to the back one with another band about 1/4 inch above....does that make sense?

I have never seen such a striking coloured dog in this country! All the best of luck with him.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

stepanelle said:


> Wow, loving the picture of Enzo, I saw the post was a while ago after I posted!
> 
> He has been done beautifully! For the 2nd band, does he really need one yet? I don't start putting a 2nd band in until the coat really flops forward, then for a standard just put one in straight behind the front one using abour 1/2 inch of coat when you have pulled the front one out into a bend then attach to the back one with another band about 1/4 inch above....does that make sense?
> 
> I have never seen such a striking coloured dog in this country! All the best of luck with him.



Well IMO he does not need a second band yet. I am not sure I will post some pictures. I don't understand what you mean by "have pulled the front one out into a bend then attach to the back one with another band about 1/4 inch above....does that make sense?"

Is the bend call the bubble?


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## stepanelle (Aug 3, 2009)

Hi,

Wasn't sure what to call it, bubble sounds fine! I agree he probably doesnt need a second band in yet. It is hard to write it down. I could probably draw it but that won't help. I have a good poodle book from Sweden with photos of step by step topknots. I will post the name of it tomorrow sometime.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> Here you go spoospirit try this stuff
> 
> http://www.cherrybrook.com/index.cf...icker_Volumizing_Protein_by_Chris_Christensen
> 
> ...



_Thank you, Roxy, for the links._


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Wow! Enzo is a great looking Red. Definitely one of the nicest I've seen. I can see why Susie and Terry want to be your new best friends! You get this boy finished and he will be in demand.

I'm glad you are passing on this groomer. In a million years I would not let her touch one of my dogs. The pro-handlers know what to take off and what to leave on. They do this weekend after weekend and know how to hide the bad and accentuate the good.

One thing. Do you have a satin collar to protect the neck hair? If not, you MUST go buy one. They really keep the neck hair from breaking/webbing.

As far as shampoo goes, Laurel Berg swears by Isle of Dogs Royal Jelly for giving texture and body. She is forever after me to buy it.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

cbrand said:


> Wow! Enzo is a great looking Red. Definitely one of the nicest I've seen. I can see why Susie and Terry want to be your new best friends! You get this boy finished and he will be in demand.
> 
> I'm glad you are passing on this groomer. In a million years I would not let her touch one of my dogs. The pro-handlers know what to take off and what to leave on. They do this weekend after weekend and know how to hide the bad and accentuate the good.
> 
> ...


HAHA thanks Cbrand 

We are making the satin collars this weekend. I bought satin and silk a while back but I was waiting for my mom to show me how to sew.

We bought wind breaker material for leggins so I should be posting the results maybe by next week?

We have Isle of dogs conditioning spray. I will see if my sister can get the royal Jelly. She works as a groomer at this up scale pet boutique in down town LA. She can probably get it for nothing lol


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## SophieGirl (Jul 17, 2009)

Roxy,
One thing about banding and someone may have already said this, but you can put two bands in, but the first band you seperate the hair from the corner of the eyes across and then the second one cannot be past the stop on their head. Does this help any?



roxy25 said:


> Thanks for you reply , I posted this months ago and decided we don't need that groomer at all. We have help from a top poodle handler so he has been telling us what to do with his coat. I am just now understanding that climate and location has a lot to do with how you groom you poodle.
> 
> We condition Enzo also but not to the point where its too soft this I what I was referring to when I said the groomer state his coat was dry. In fact it was soft enough. We condition Enzo because its dry in CA .
> 
> ...


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## thestars (May 2, 2009)

Make sure if you make your own snoods and leggings that there is no stitching on the inside against the show coat, with movement it can break the hair!!!


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