# Anyone have an older Fromm gold puppy bag?



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Poor Lacey.  That really stinks. And with no warning about the change, you couldn’t transition her slowly to ensure she liked and tolerated the new formula.

If I were in that situation, I’d probably start exploring other kibble options, with a similar protein/fat/fiber ratio. I actually let Peggy choose hers from samples at our local pet food store.

Is there a reason you don’t want her on an adult food? This might be a good opportunity to make that change, but I know it’s hard once you’ve found something that works.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

It says 2018, not 2021 as the date for the change.

Possibly Lacey is just growing up? Have you checked what amount she should be eating recently? Maybe try adult Fromm, or look at other foods? Annie is intolerant to the two main protein sources on that bag, but I think chicken and fish is a really common food base.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Hey Porkchop maybe Fromm could provide the information you are looking for.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Didn’t Lacey just turn two? Why is she still eating puppy food?


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

When I was tracking down when PPP had made some changes I found by searching sites that have the product don't always update their listing as the changes happen. Can't say when this was posted but here's what I found here:
Fromm Gold Puppy Dry Dog Food | PetFlow

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
NUTRITION DETAILS
*Ingredients*
Chicken, chicken meal, chicken broth, oat groats, pearled barley, menhaden fish meal, brown rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), dried tomato pomace, dried egg product, potatoes, chicken liver, whole oats, salmon oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), whole barley, cheese, flaxseed, brewers dried yeast, duck, lamb, carrots, sweet potatoes, celery, alfalfa meal, potassium chloride, Vitamins [choline chloride, Vitamin E supplement, ascorbic acid, calcium carbonate, riboflavin supplement, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, Vitamin A supplement, Vitamin D3 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, biotin, Vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid], monosodium phosphate, salt, dl-methionine, chicory root extract, taurine, calcium sulfate, chicken cartilage, Minerals [zinc sulfate, manganese sulfate, ferrous sulfate, magnesium sulfate, zinc proteinate, ferrous proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper sulfate, magnesium proteinate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate], sorbic acid (preservative), l-tryptophan, yucca schidigera extract, sodium selenite, dried Pediococcus acidilactici fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Bifidobacterium longum fermentation product.
*Guaranteed Analysis*

NUTRIENTUNITS27% minCrude Protein18% minCrude Fat5.5% maxCrude Fiber10% maxMoisture
*Calories*
3849 kcal/kg 1749 kcal/lb 420 kcal/cup

2018 is the only date, so far, that I find any online chatter referring to any changes that wasn't on the Fromm website. 
Fromm Gold Puppy food has changed recipe | Sheltie Forums


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## Porkchop (Sep 2, 2019)

Sorry I’m so late in responding here. 

You guys are right, the change in formula above officially from Fromm was from 2018, before Lacey was born. That explains why I never remembered duck being the protein source. But something is definitely different now in color, size, and smell of the food. At least in this most recent bag I bought.

Thankfully Lacey has gotten used to whatever change they made and is back to eating both meals a day regularly as she was before. Poops are good consistency. They were a bit softer than normal for short time after opening the new bag in august. I’ll compare my bag to the ingredient list from rose n poos. It also wouldn’t hurt to email Fromm but Id have preferred to see an older bag’s ingredient list with my own eyes.

She is now 2, but I plan to feed the puppy kibble for the foreseeable future. She does well on it. It has a slightly higher fat and protein content, therefore requires less physical amount of kibble she has to eat. Obesity isn’t a concern since I monitor her weight and measure her food with a digital scale for accurate calories. She gets the right amount of calories using her rmr and activity levels. I’m really on top of that stuff since she’s small and I don’t want any extra weight stressing her knees as she ages.

Is there other reasons puppy kibble is bad for a 2 year old puppy? I haven’t found any other info besides obesity concerns. My vet didn’t have much more to say when I asked them about it in the past. 

I’m hesitant to try another kibble with how sick she got from the Farmina, despite really loving it during the slow transition period. 

I would consider transitioning to the adult Fromm adult formula if there is reason to.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Porkchop said:


> Is there other reasons puppy kibble is bad for a 2 year old puppy? I haven’t found any other info besides obesity concerns. My vet didn’t have much more to say when I asked them about it in the past.


Bad might be a bit strong to describe continuing puppy food into adulthood. "All Life Stages" is essentially puppy food according to a source cited below. 

You're correct about the higher fat and protein content being things to watch carefully if you continue. The other point of interest is the differing nutrient profiles for puppy vs adult. 

I wouldn't say it's requiring a switch but the nutrient profile also runs to higher values in puppy food. I haven't looked further into whether this might come under "too much of a good thing" for an adult. 

I'd be curious to look at the analysis on the puppy vs adult version. (so guess what I'll be doing lol)

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Excerpt from:
What’s the Difference Between Adult Dog Food and Puppy Food?

_Reputable manufacturers produce foods that follow the guidelines put forth by the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO). The following table compares the AAFCO minimum requirements for a variety of vital nutrients:_



_*Puppies need to eat more in the way of protein (including higher concentrations of specific amino acids), fat, and certain minerals than do adult dogs. Additionally, many manufacturers provide higher amounts of nutrients that are not regulated by AAFCO in their puppy foods.*

Good examples are the omega-3 fatty acids that have been shown to promote healthy brain and eye development in young animals.

*The caloric density of foods designed for adults and puppies can also be very different. Growth and development take a lot of energy, so puppies need to take in more calories than do adult dogs of a similar size.*_

source: PetMD

additional info:

Excerpt:
_*The biggest primary difference between puppy food (growth and reproduction recipes) and adult (maintenance) food relates to protein. Puppy food should derive 22.5% of their calories from protein sources, while adult foods need only 18% of their calories from protein.

Adults can certainly tolerate the higher protein levels of puppy food, but it may lead to weight gain, due to the higher amount of protein calories.

However, puppies will often suffer from developmental problems if fed an adult food and deprived of the proteins they require.

Remember: “protein” really refers to a soup of different amino acids. Because not all amino acids are created equally, the AAFCO recommends differing amino acid compositions for adult and puppy dog foods.

Some of the starkest contrasts of amino acid compositions include:*_


_Argine_
_Histidine_
_Isoleucine_
_Leucine_
_Phenylalanine_
_Ohenylalaline-tyrosine_
_Thereorine_
_The AAFCO requires nearly 2x the amount of each of these amino acids in puppy foods than it does in adult dog foods. That is because these amino acids are intrinsic to the growth process.

The AAFCO also requires puppy foods to contain a bit more fat than adult foods do. Per the guidelines, adult food need only derive 5.5% of their calories from fat, while puppy food must derive 8.5% of their calories from fat. This is primarily to ensure that puppy foods are “energy dense.”

Fats contain more calories per pound than either proteins or carbohydrates do, which ensures that puppy food is packed with energy for stoking their internal fires. Adult maintenance formulations, by contrast, are designed to be leaner, so they contain less fat, and therefore fewer calories in every bite.

The mineral content of puppy foods also differs from those of adult dog foods. For example, per AAFCO guidelines, puppy foods must be 1% calcium, while adult foods need only be 0.6% calcium. Similarly, puppy foods must be 0.8% phosphorus, while most adult dog foods are only 0.5% phosphorus.

What about Foods for “All Life Stages?” Are They Safe for Puppies?
In addition to foods that are labelled as being appropriate for “growth and reproduction” or “adult maintenance,” you may also see foods bearing a label that indicates they are appropriate for “all life stages.”

These foods are appropriate for most healthy dogs (they may not be good for some senior canines), so you can go ahead and feed them to your puppy.

These foods are designed to meet the requirements for “growth and reproduction” and “adult maintenance.” But because the nutritional requirements for puppy foods exceed those of typical adult foods, it means these are essentially puppy food._

source:
Can Puppies Eat Adult Dog Food? Puppy vs Dog Nutrition & What You Need to Know! (k9ofmine.com)


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Not apples to apples but the first listed ingredients on another page were similar. The biggest numeric differences are in the last photo. In most all else, the puppy profile is higher values but the adult values are higher in the last group. The non-puppy version is under the All Life Stages. (chicken}



























This is the Adult vs All Stages (chicken)


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