# Question about types of coat



## lavillerose (Feb 16, 2011)

The AKC Standard says: "Of naturally harsh texture, dense throughout."

That can be interpreted a LOTS of different ways, right? In my time grooming, I've noticed that yes, different colors seem to have different textures, particularly incorrect textures (being a pet groomer I see more incorrect texture than correct). Whites are sometimes be cottony/linty. Creams tend to be extremely dense (more hair per square inch), and slightly soft. Black and blues tend to have the harshest textures, with some of them so harsh they feel like steel wool. Apricots and reds sometimes have sparse coats (I see this mainly on the minis and toys, the standards seem to have better coats). Some of the browns I've seen have a somewhat looser curl.

However, you see big differences within the same color too. My parents Spoos for instance are both blacks, but Pepper (a BYB spoo) has very tight harsh ringlets and a tendency to be oily, which makes him cord like no tomorrow (we keep him short because his oil control issue makes him stinkier than the average spoo). Bella, our rescue, has a coat that lacks much curl at all, and with more than an inch on it it looks more like a wavy PWD coat than a proper poodle. My black mini, from show lines, has what I'd call a correct coat, dense, shiny and a nice springy curl too it, but she's still in puppy coat, so it remains to be seen how she'll mature. Coats also change quite a bit with age, becoming coarser or sparser when dogs age past their prime and get old.

So yes, there's a lot of variety out there, and I think color and bloodlines to a certain degree has something to do with it.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I have noticed this as well. My Cream Spoo has beautiful thick hair & it seems that his curl is almost on individual hairs have a kinkiness to them & instead of large curls he just denses up. Almost as if it were to cord BUT it is not soft nor does it oil up. If you ever have felt an actual sheep that is what he feels like. My mini Black abstract has beautiful curls all over, little less on the back of her neck & hoping this tighten ups some but she is 19 wks so coat change will happen but I am loving her coat now. So many dogs I see have almost straight hair & hardly getting a curl even at 1 year. I find the "coat curl" an interesting subject.


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## Siskojan (Mar 13, 2011)

Thanks for your answers. I think I need to see and feel a lot more poodles. One of the only other ones I know is a 9 year old apricot and her coat seems thin and the other is an elderly black with a very dense very curly coat. Sisko's coat is thick and feels soft to me. I really really want another poodle!


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## lavillerose (Feb 16, 2011)

I found a pic of all three of my family's blacks so you can see some of the difference (it's hard to get them all in one frame!). Albi, the mini is mine, and that's still puppy coat (8 mos). It's very springy and thick, with nice shiny hair shafts, but I don't think it will get it's full curl until she changes coat. The second photo is a close up of her coat freshly blow-dried. It's very much like those tibetan lambskin throws you find at Ikea.

Compare that to Pepper, the (huge) old man. Like I said, very tight ringlets. This dog's coat never straightens out no matter how much you blowdry, and it's so oily! He has to be bathed a lot. He's also a senior at 9yrs, so I've stopped playing with his haircuts and he gets an easy buzzdown these days.

You can't really see Bella in the background, but hers is the wavy coat. Her topknot won't stand up at all if it's as long as I prefer them to be, it just doesn't have any curl to give it body.

Hopefully that helps. I left it full sized so you can see the differences.


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## Siskojan (Mar 13, 2011)

Thank you for the pics. Albi's puppy coat is very impressive. Pepper certainly is a big chap isn't he. How tall and how heavy is he? His coat is more like what i was trying to describe and I think Bella looks like my Sisko who isn't at all oily. I've been bugging him all evening by feeling different bits of him to judge soft or harsh and disturbing his beauty sleep. Poor dog.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

This is interesting. My 4 month old spoo puppy has dense cottony hair when it is brushed out, but it gets curly within a couple days. The comments about the different colors was interesting. She is a cream. I have been brushing her out every couple days and she looks like a giant cotton ball. I should just let her be for longer before I brush her and then it will curl more, but it is fun to brush her. She enjoys sitting on my lap getting all that attention. 

Her parents were both blacks. One had very dense, soft hair with a loose curl (but maybe he was just brushed out?). The other had soft, tighter curls, but not corkscrew ones. There is a spoo at the dog park with the very tight, oily kind of curls you talked about. He isn't very soft to the touch and doesn't need much trimming. Another Spoo there, from show lines, is black and has tons of hair that is so soft you just want to bury your face in him and he is almost 2. I thought they had a rougher coat by then, but I guess they don't always.


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## lavillerose (Feb 16, 2011)

Siskojan — Pepper is very oversized, he's nearly 29 inches and about 80lbs. He's our first poodle, and my parents didn't take me with them when they went to see this breeder (who I would have known not to buy from even then, but my parents were and still are a bit naive about this stuff, they don't like to listen to me). He hasn't been the healthiest dog, but we love him, even with his stinky greasiness and other issues.

Outwest — Your cream pup's coat sounds very typical. Even from black parents, creams nearly always maintain a less harsh coat than a black. It's not incorrect, but it can be hard to take care of, especially through coat change. But your puppy is young and it sounds like very normal puppy fluff, you don't have to worry about it changing for awhile. And brushing often is much better than not brushing in a groomer's opinion!

Pepper's coat does not grow fast at all, which I think is due in part to his oily skin. It attracts more dirt and dirt causes breakage, as well as the fact that he's old and older dogs tend to have a slower rate of hair growth. Bella and Albi both grow coat like weeds.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

O.k. so I took pictures of Leif's coat today. You will see the kink in his hair esp. in the wet photo's. I do believe "Kink" is different than "Curl". My Mini has a "Curl" to her puppy coat that is visibly seen as "Curls" but Leif has a Lamb texture & a "Kink". Here goes. A before of chest where almost a curl but I think if worked right it would do better as a "cord", one of his head, a wet shot & then when he is roughly fluffled out. I haven't touched his coat in 2 wks & not a single mat in it, just loads of sand & dirt from playing. I will enclose Louisa's before of her curl.

Does anybody think that the original "corded" coat maybe is what the "kink" is today in Poodles? Maybe the looser "Curl" is what made the difference back when "they" decided another coat type?


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## Siskojan (Mar 13, 2011)

Thank you for Leif's pictures. Sisko's coat is just like that and I have imagined it going into cords. He is a grubby poodle at present, lots of rain and nice puddles to play in, but being a mix of silvers and blues it doesn't really show!


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

cording was just that. cording. managed mats (dreadlocs). I am cording temperance's topknot and tail. 

here are her cords 3 months in. i'll take pics of them in a few weeks as i'm recording the process.


Temperance cords, april 15. Three months in by faerie made, on Flickr

she's a black spoo and has a nice dense coat w/ a tight curl. 
this was taken back in february. shows her coat before i clipped it. her tk 
was only 1 month in cording so it's not matted, but you can see natural separation. 


DSC_0041 by faerie made, on Flickr


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

Understand that a cord is a managed mat BUT do certain coat types have an easier time at it than others? Like Leifs coat has the "kink" but not curl, after 2 wks of no brushing he still is mat free "yeah" but it is a different coat than a "curl". He has great density to it. When I groomed a "Puli" in a managed clip it always came in with cords starting on their own & that could just be 8 wks out. I also groomed Pulik's with cords- not a fun chore & they always stank, but their cords hit the ground. I loved the Puli that was in a style clip he was so very cute.

I think I have to start seeing & feeling what a "good, proper" coat is. I too often only groom toys with straight as can be coats, soft coats too.


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## FozziesMom (Jun 23, 2010)

LeULLMAN's dog, Beau, has a super soft fluffy white coat--all the time. I thought I was a bad poodle owner because Fozzie's coat is ALWAYS curly, I can brush him out but never straight and he curls again within hours. 

So one day I said as much on the form to leULLMan and said he'd always wished Beau had a curly coat, that the hair never curls on Beau very much, just stays naturally soft and fluffy. Funny, eh?


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