# want to kill my son not my dog



## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

So Zoe is turning 6 months soon and has not had an accident in many weeks.
She was spayed 11 days ago so she was gated in kitchen for past 10 days.
The past day she has been enjoying having her freedom back. Before being spayed she was starting to go to the door to let me know she needed to go out. It was very subtle , but definitely happening.
I want to kill my almost 25 year old son. He left a pile of all his crap from his car about 4 feet in front of door. I asked him several times to put it away but he left it. I usually take Zoe out regularly through out the day, play, and crate her in between. I leave her out of crate from 5 until 11pm with her signaling me to go out. That has been our routine for a few weeks.
So at 7pm she was outside playing with kids and I saw she peed, so I knew to watch her in about 2 hrs. I saw her go in the direction of the door a few times while I was watching tv, but then turn into a different room. I can see the front door well while watching tv.
It seems she peed in hallway before going to door. I realized after i saw the pee she might have been afraid to go to the door because of all the crap there. After seeing pee it was confirmed.... as I called her to go outside she dashed around it fast like she was afraid.
I am frustrated because we have made so much progress and I thought we were almost 100% housebroken. In truth we are almost there, but now I am nervous this is a setback.


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## Suddenly (Aug 8, 2013)

Hmm, I would tell your son to get his things off the floor and put away. I'm sure you did that already. Then I would continue to take her out more and have her go by the area that his things were. Maybe she'll feel more comfortable since his things are gone. Haven't trained a dog in a long time but I think this seems logical. Keep us posted!


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Suddenly said:


> Hmm, I would tell your son to get his things off the floor and put away. I'm sure you did that already. Then I would continue to take her out more and have her go by the area that his things were. Maybe she'll feel more comfortable since his things are gone. Haven't trained a dog in a long time but I think this seems logical. Keep us posted!


I don't need to take her out more, she is doing great. We go out very often. That is the front door where we use all day. she was just nervous to pass his pile to get to the door.
I can talk to him until I am blue in the face. I guess I am just venting , hoping that this little accident wasn't a setback and she will continue in the evening going to the door to let me know she needs to go out.
If not, it is very logical that after two hours I just need to take her out. I was just finally after many months enjoying the freedom of my eyes not being on her 100% of the time. I don't want to go back to that.
I think that is what I am most upset about.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Arg! How frustrating! I know exactly what you are describing (have three grown sons- I hear you!).

I think you've had such great progress with Zoe lately, this doesn't have to be a huge setback. Zoe did in fact try to signal (by heading toward the blocked door) and so you know she does know what to do and tried to do it. It is understandable since she has been getting so reliable and you've been reading her signals so well, that of course you didn't expect that she would turn into another room unless she did not have to really go. 

I would take the approach that this little hiccup never happened! Use your enzymatic cleanser on the spot, read the riot act to the son and get his stuff put away and then carry on with Zoe as if it never happened (of course, being extra vigilant for a day or two - which I think you've already shown you tend to be anyway!).

I bet Zoe will continue with her great progress!


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

If your son dumps stuff by the front door and doesn't move it, would it be possible for you to move it? Perhaps dump it in his bedroom? Also, can you put up a baby gate in the hall so Zoe can't be out of your sight? Just some suggestions.


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## HerdingStdPoodle (Oct 17, 2012)

*Wheelbarrow*

Hi mom2six;

:mad2: I think a wheelbarrow would be a great tool: 
- set all of your son's stuff inside
- dump his "stuff" outside or far away from the door

Perhaps you could tether your little Zoe to your side, and watch television together. Then when you are back up to your 100% housebreaking level, you can relax! You & Zoe will do great. 

HerdingStdPoodle


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

i think i'd teach zoe to pee on your son's stuff. can't send a better message than that. :devil:


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

patk said:


> i think i'd teach zoe to pee on your son's stuff. can't send a better message than that. :devil:


 i like this one.

Thanks for the suggestions. i
I do not need to tether Zoe to me to watch tv, as i watch her carefully. We both are enjoying her new freedom which took many months to achieve. When she leaves the room I will have to be very careful watching her the next few days.
She has freedom all day and does fine. In fact any accidents she has ever had have always been in the evening. Which always seemed funny cause at that point she isn't drinking anymore .
Moving my sons crap wasn't an option because I am an enabler, he needed to know he had to clean it up. I just didn't realize it was going to bother Zoe, or I would have in retrospect.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Oh I agree with patk! I don't think you will find this is a big set back, just go back to the routine you've been relying on. Zoe is a smart girl. Talk to your son about how she reacted to his pile of junk and let him know that the next time he leaves stuff around that he doesn't seem to care about you will put it out at the curb for collection day.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

lily cd re said:


> Oh I agree with patk! I don't think you will find this is a big set back, just go back to the routine you've been relying on. Zoe is a smart girl. Talk to your son about how she reacted to his pile of junk and let him know that the next time he leaves stuff around that he doesn't seem to care about you will put it out at the curb for collection day.



Threats never worked with him. He is my oldest9 almost 25) and always thought he knows better. That typical first born.
Also on the tethering idea... If i did that Zoe would not learn to signal that she knows to go. She would not be going to door tied to me.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I don't think it was a set back. I agree she was probably confused or wary of a pile she's never seen before. I remember those stationary piles by the door or on the stairs...Warn the kids that she just might pee or poo on their little landfills of school debris. Maybe that will keep Zoe's exits clear...


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

I think I'd train Zoe to pee on your son's stuff. Bet that would make him move it. Call it Son training.

Rick


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

.... or make your son clean up the pee if there are any more accidents! Or suggest he get his own place if he doesn't respect your house rules i.e. cleaning up after himself!

I don't think this will be much of a set back for Zoe - you're doing so well with her. Pippin once got scared to go near the door and it took us a while to realise it was the golf umbrella stood next to it that was spooking her! I went over and handled it while she was there, as in "look it isn't scary", let her have a good sniff at it and she was soon fine.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I agree you don't need to tether Zoe with you. She was wary of the pile of stuff by the door and didn't signal one time. That does not warrant starting from scratch. As for the threat not working with your son, maybe you just have to put all the stuff in a garbage bag next time and leave it outside somewhere, or making him cleanup after Zoe could be a good idea too. I really don't think this was her fault.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

mom2six, I hear you on the frustration and needing to vent about the situation. I really think you've been making fantastic progress with Zoe and she won't be set back much by this incident.
Regarding the enabling conundrum - oh so familiar! - something to think about: If you moving the pile is enabling and NOT moving the pile brings you even more trouble - then other people have you over a barrel. Perhaps if you approach the talk with your son as not a THREAT, but an explanation of consequences if he refuses to respect your request to put away this things. He has a choice - he can keep the house tidy as you prefer it, or he will have chosen to let you dispose of his things as you see fit. 
I have followed through on this kind of discussion (after too many years of being over that barrel and so angry and frustrated) by doing just what I had explained I would have to do if they chose not to honor my request to keep family space tidy - I threw it all in a garbage bag and put it outside. It isn't a threat when you follow through in that manner - it is simply consequences. You discuss, they know what will happen if they don't pull their weight, and you follow through if they make that choice. 

It is really hard to follow through - many of us are so well-trained to swallow our quite natural frustration and anger, and yet I have learned that not taking some proactive action is actually enabling the disrespect, too.

Once I got over my reluctance and discomfort with actually creating a boundary and sticking to it, I found my anger much reduced. It's not easy, though!


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I made a habit of not saying a word but simply taking all the things my family left in places that they shouldn't and putting them in the drivers seat of their car... it works pretty darn good.

Your pup will be okay, you just need to housebreak your son.


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

I totally agree with nifty's post. A long time ago my friend and his wife had this same kinda thing going on. He was a slob and left his socks and underwear all over the bedroom floor. At first she'd pick up after him. Then she asked him to pick up after himself. They argued a lot over this. After he ignored her final warning she waited till he was wearing his last clean pair or socks and undies. She nailed them all to the floor right where they were. He never left his stuff on the floor again and learned to stop being a slob.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I like both nifty and Carley's mom's ideas. Rick I'm not so sure nail holes in the floor is worth getting socks off the floor.


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> I like both nifty and Carley's mom's ideas. Rick I'm not so sure nail holes in the floor is worth getting socks off the floor.


True, but it's funny. 

Rick


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

I agree that the nails might not have been my choice, but it sounds like it was effective!


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Lol. All that crap came from the teenage car. My 21 and18 yr olds were complaining the car smelled , so he took the stuff out.
I have tried everything with this son that was mentioned. I've given up with him . He is not trainable , at least Zoe is.
The good news is he just got engaged , so soon he will be someone else's problem


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

PoodleRick said:


> True, but it's funny.
> 
> Rick


Oh I never said I wasn't laughing!

mom2six, does she know what she's in for?


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## Suddenly (Aug 8, 2013)

Yipee engaged how great is that!! Congratulations!! When's the wedding?


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

the other side of that is the old saying, "don't think of it as losing a son, but as gaining a daughter." gotta hope the new daughter is not like the son, then! :laugh:


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Rick I was reading quickly before on my phone and missed that entire nail thing. Oh my g-d lol....
That would only hurt me though, he would care less.

They are getting married in march.
She knows a little what she is in for, but does anyone ever really know.


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

LOL- I have three grown kids and can so identify- they can drive you crazy!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Mom2six, I just read this whole thread and I have to say.....Zoe will be fine, but your son? His poor fiancee is in for it!!!!!LOL!
Btw....even at 2years old, Molly will avoid anything 'new' in her path too! Complete circle around object with side glance to make sure it ain't gonna 'get her'!!!!! Hahaha!


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

MollyMuiMa said:


> Mom2six, I just read this whole thread and I have to say.....Zoe will be fine, but your son? His poor fiancee is in for it!!!!!LOL!
> *Btw....even at 2years old, Molly will avoid anything 'new' in her path too! Complete circle around object with side glance to make sure it ain't gonna 'get her'!!!!*! Hahaha!


This is so true! I thought Zoe was doing exactly what I have seen other smart little dogs do. My daughter's toy will trot merrily along and then if she sees something out of place, she kind of startles slightly and then starts barking at it! She is not happy until someone moves the offending article and puts it where it belongs! LOL I think a few of us Moms of teens/twentysomethings could use the help of that little dog!


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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

Our daughter (first born child) was a slob, too. After repeated warnings about picking up her stuff, I finally warned her that it would disappear the next time. She didn't believe me, of course, so more stuff was left everywhere. I even asked her before she went out one day if she'd cleaned up her stuff, and she assured me she had - right... When she left, I bagged it all up and took it to Goodwill. She was FURIOUS when she got home and went tearing off to Goodwill to try and get it back, but it had already been processed. She ranted and raved that I was going to have to replace all of it - not! Things were better after that. Sometimes you just have to draw a line in the sand.

Thankfully, your son's getting married and will not be living with you, right?


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

georgiapeach said:


> Our daughter (first born child) was a slob, too. After repeated warnings about picking up her stuff, I finally warned her that it would disappear the next time. She didn't believe me, of course, so more stuff was left everywhere. I even asked her before she went out one day if she'd cleaned up her stuff, and she assured me she had - right... When she left, I bagged it all up and took it to Goodwill. She was FURIOUS when she got home and went tearing off to Goodwill to try and get it back, but it had already been processed. She ranted and raved that I was going to have to replace all of it - not! Things were better after that. Sometimes you just have to draw a line in the sand.
> 
> Thankfully, your son's getting married and will not be living with you, right?



Omg , I love this!!!! My son is J crew obsessed and has more clothes than anyone needs. I could never try this because I would have to just buy him more clothes, especially because he is getting married and will be poor. He hopefully is going to med school and his fiancee law school.
I think you rock for actually do it though!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Maybe if just a few things disappeared? Not enough to warrant replacing, but enough to be noticed....


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Tell your son, that you're planning on having Zoe perform at the rehearsal dinner or that you would like her in the wedding party, so her training is paramount. Say this with a straight face. Your son will be training her himself! BTW, I laughed so much at this thread. I'm a big fan of the cartoon strip, "Zits", it applies through college and beyond


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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

Why would you have to buy him more clothes if you gave him fair warning? He's a grown man now. He's very lucky that you're letting him live at home. Yea, I'm a tough love fan.


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