# Need to Find a Groomer



## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

I believe that the National Dog Groomer's Association has a place on their website where they list their Master Groomers. However, just because someone is a "Master Groomer" doesn't necessarily mean that they can do a show puppy trim...I would definitely check them out before trying them!! I have a friend who is a Master Groomer, and while she is very good at grooming and is always learning new things, she herself will tell you that she cannot do a good show trim on poodles. HTH!


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## fairhavenmagick (Jan 19, 2011)

Thanks for the website! I don't know much about grooming so put master groomer out there because I thought they tended to have more experience. I'm just looking for someone that can do it well.
What kind of questions would you ask a groomer when looking for a show worthy groom (puppy cut in my case)? Do most groomers have pictures of their work (not that I know exactly what to look for).
Hopefully someone from the DFW area will be along to give me suggestions from personally experience!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Most professional groomers who primarily groom pets are not going to be able to do a show puppy trim. I fear that if you take your puppy to a professional groomer and ask for a puppy trim, you will end up with something much different from what you need. This is a mistake that I have heard of happening WAY too many times both on this forum and in real life! "Puppy cut" means something entirely different to most groomers than it does to those who show standard poodles. 

There is a puppy showing in my area where the owners made that mistake...set him back several months...

I would suggest contacting a handler who has experience grooming and showing poodles. I know some handlers will teach you for a fee. Also, you might want to look around for a mentor. I think your best bet is to locate a mentor in Texas via this forum or to go to a handler. I think that all of this will be easier than trying to find a professional groomer who has experience doing show trims...The key is that the person *must* have experience grooming *for the show ring*.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I would suggest contacting a handler who has experience grooming and showing poodles. I know some handlers will teach you for a fee. Also, you might want to look around for a mentor. I think your best bet is to locate a mentor in Texas via this forum or to go to a handler. I think that all of this will be easier than trying to find a professional groomer who has experience doing show trims...The key is that the person *must* have experience grooming *for the show ring*.


 What CM said...that's what I was going to suggest next!


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## fairhavenmagick (Jan 19, 2011)

Thanks! I did manage to find one groomer that is also a professional handler. However, the prices he gave me are a bit cost prohibitive for one show. In my mind especially since she is currently the size of a mini and really doesn't have enough coat for a true puppy cut (some people have said).
That may just be the way it is...but my husband might keel over if I tell him it's going to cost ~ 1/2 the price of the dog to get her groomed for a $10 class. 
I am still looking around but I'm thinking that might jut be how much things costs. I guess in my mind I thought it the cost would be a little bit closer to a normal groom. 
To me at this point a cut is a cut. What is the difference if I want my dog in a german or a show puppy cut (or any cut that isn't a basic shave down)? I'm honestly asking...I understand these things in the horse world, so I get that there may be a difference, but the poodle world is so new to me.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

fairhavenmagick said:


> Thanks! I did manage to find one groomer that is also a professional handler. However, the prices he gave me are a bit cost prohibitive for one show. In my mind especially since she is currently the size of a mini and really doesn't have enough coat for a true puppy cut (some people have said).
> That may just be the way it is...but my husband might keel over if I tell him it's going to cost ~ 1/2 the price of the dog to get her groomed for a $10 class.
> I am still looking around but I'm thinking that might jut be how much things costs. I guess in my mind I thought it the cost would be a little bit closer to a normal groom.
> To me at this point a cut is a cut. What is the difference if I want my dog in a german or a show puppy cut (or any cut that isn't a basic shave down)? I'm honestly asking...I understand these things in the horse world, so I get that there may be a difference, but the poodle world is so new to me.


 Wow...I don't know how much you payed for your puppy, but I'm assuming she wasn't cheap.  Which means that groom wouldn't be cheap...I also think that groomer should ask to look at your pup before quoting you a price...at the least, he should just give you a rough estimate that isn't final. I would keep looking...you never know what you may find out there! The DFW area is huge. 

As far as differences in the trims...yah, they are pretty big. For one thing, the hair is way longer on a puppy trim, which makes for more work in the bathing/drying/brushing department. A puppy trim is also usually scissored entirely...some people use clippers on the body for a German, which makes things a lot easier. You also have to take into account that your poodle is a puppy...which means that she won't necessarily be perfectly still or behave as well as an adult would. I know my puppy was bad for grooming until he got a little older! Even just scissors near his face would send him into a screaming, struggling fit. And clippers made him almost hysterical. Of course, I worked with him almost every day and he's now an angel to groom, thank goodness! Now, I know that your puppy isn't going to behave like mine did, but when you are trying to scissor a pup up for a show, even the smallest wiggle can cause you to make a wrong cut and then you have to rework at least that area, if not more. For example, if a puppy wiggles at the wrong moment and I accidentally take a chunk out of a front leg, that means that that leg is now going to have to go shorter in order to look right, which means I also have to rework the other leg if I've already done it, plus I'm probably going to have to rework the chest and possible part of the shoulder/mane now too so that they balance. And then, if after I've fixed the mistake, I take a step back to look, I might find that since I had to take things a little shorter on the front half now I need to rework the back half because it has been thrown out of balance. Granted, that is an extreme example.   But hopefully it will help explain the price that goes with a show groom. And maybe somebody else to has actually shown poodles or groomed them for show will hop over and fill you in on anything I may have missed. Whatever I tell you is what I have learned either here or from people I've talked to who have shown poodles, so...


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

fairhavenmagick said:


> Thanks! I did manage to find one groomer that is also a professional handler. However, the prices he gave me are a bit cost prohibitive for one show. In my mind especially since she is currently the size of a mini and really doesn't have enough coat for a true puppy cut (some people have said).
> That may just be the way it is...but my husband might keel over if I tell him it's going to cost ~ 1/2 the price of the dog to get her groomed for a $10 class.
> I am still looking around but I'm thinking that might jut be how much things costs. I guess in my mind I thought it the cost would be a little bit closer to a normal groom.
> To me at this point a cut is a cut. What is the difference if I want my dog in a german or a show puppy cut (or any cut that isn't a basic shave down)? I'm honestly asking...I understand these things in the horse world, so I get that there may be a difference, but the poodle world is so new to me.


That is just insane! I would assume your dog was in the $1,500-$2,000 range if show quality, so we are talking $750-$1,000 to scissor? I have never heard of this. You could get your dog scissored for $100 by someone very experienced. Heck, my handler roughed Millie, a spayed pet, into a CC for half that.

Show cuts cost more because a) it takes a LOT of skill and, b) the time spent scissoring. You don't use the clippers *anywhere* on the body except FFT when doing a show puppy trim. It takes a LOT of time. A german would take a lot of time too, but there is significantly more opportunity for using clippers on the body....

ETA: Back in the days when I took my poodles to PetsMart for grooming, any scissored clip was over $100. And they turned out like crap because your average groomer doesn't know the little details about grooming poodles (how much of tail to shave, NOT to delineate topknot, etc.). I now groom my dogs myself because the grooms that I desire require too much scissoring to honestly expect a busy pet groomer to be able to do. I have found a wonderful pet groomer who is now a friend and who groomed her two champion standards. But, I even do not expect her to be able to spend hours upon hours scissoring my dog into a show trim.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

*Puppy Trims*

Here's my guy, Spud, in his 'Puppy Trim'. A lot of labour must have gone into this clip. Probably not half of what he's worth, tho...


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## fairhavenmagick (Jan 19, 2011)

To be fair I did get a pretty good deal on my pup. The breeder appreciated that I was going to be doing SAR with her. She was the breeder's pick and if everything goes very well SAR, testing, performance, and conformation wise the breeder will eventually get a puppy back.
That being said- it was still A LOT of $, there was the intial put in place cut which was very expensive, then an additional weekly upkeep groom of $150.
So knowing that I could probably find someone to help with scissoring for $100 (or up, I'm okay with going up from that some) is a good starting point for me. 
Thanks for explaining, a german was the first clip to pop in my head for an example but I get the idea. I'm sure hand scissoring is very laborous and time consuming. Lucky for me- so far my pup has be fantastic on the table. Much better than I would expect any pup her age to be. She is very still other than bending her head to watch me grind her nails. And she can't stand for a long time so she gets lots of lay down breaks.
Thanks again!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Okay, let me see if I am reading this correctly.

With the handler that could do the show trim, you would pay a pricey initial cost, and then $150 WEEKLY for upkeep? You don't need any weekly upkeep! Just setting the pattern would be fine for your needs! 

When I got my first show dog he came to me scissored in show trim already by his breeder (he was 6 months). Then, about a month later he stayed with his handler when I was out of town. She scissored him for me. He wasn't scissored again until he went into the ring at 9 months.


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