# Frustrated - switch from SD to TOTW



## MamaTiff (Sep 23, 2011)

Have you tried the different varieties of TOTW? Maybe she wants a different flavor?


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

I'd try different things. Maybe the kibble is too hard? Soaking it in a bit of chicken broth can help. I find mixing scrambled egg in with ANYTHING makes it palatable. I could mix scrambled egg with cardboard and mine would eat it :smile:.


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## Minnie (Apr 25, 2011)

MamaTiff said:


> Have you tried the different varieties of TOTW? Maybe she wants a different flavor?


So far just the lamb but this is typical for Bella - she's extremely picky and so far only eats the SD well. Other than canned or the roll food.



JE-UK said:


> I'd try different things. Maybe the kibble is too hard? Soaking it in a bit of chicken broth can help. I find mixing scrambled egg in with ANYTHING makes it palatable. I could mix scrambled egg with cardboard and mine would eat it :smile:.


I've never thought of this - I've always heard that people food was not good for dogs - am I wrong????


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Minnie said:


> So far just the lamb but this is typical for Bella - she's extremely picky and so far only eats the SD well. Other than canned or the roll food.
> 
> 
> 
> I've never thought of this - I've always heard that people food was not good for dogs - am I wrong????


I believe this myth was started by the pet food companies, understandably :smile:.

Lots of "people" food is perfectly healthy for dogs, and they love it. Mine eats all sorts of things ... he gets to clean the plates after dinner and we generally tithe a bit to the dish cleaner. 

Sweets, starches, and grains aren't particularly good for dogs, but meat and vegetables (and eggs!) certainly are. Some dogs have trouble with dairy products, although mine handles dairy fine. 

In addition to table scraps, mine gets a variety of stuff added to his food: sardines or mackerel, eggs, grated cheese, cottage cheese, olive oil, chicken broth if I've been boiling chicken, a drizzle of the fat drained off the mince I cooked for dinner, etc. I am careful not to overfeed, but I like his meals to be interesting. Food is SO significant to them!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

My dogs eat all sorts of people food for snacks. They're dogs. They are able to digest better than we can. 

Instead of mixing the foods, throw out the science diet and only give the food you wish to feed. Mix it with a little warm water to release the flavors. If she doesn't eat it, pick it up and try again next meal. Your dog will not starve herself. Within a couple of days she should start eating. If her system is used to all that filler in the science diet, you may have some loose stools for up to a week during the switch. That isn't going to kill her. Her body needs to readjust to the new food the same way a humans body readjusts with a big change in diet. I know when I realized I needed to increase fiber in my diet I had some digestive issues for a short while, for example. 

Throw the science diet away. If you decide that the TOTW isn't working, choose another food. Also, try mixing a tablespoon of a can of high quality meat in with her warmed kibble. My dogs lick their bowls clean at every meal. There is no reason yours won't do that. Try a little olive oil on her food if you choose to not put canned or an egg. My sister in law does that instead of the canned and her dog also eats every bite.

Feel her sides. If you can feel every rib and they have a tiny bit of meat over them, she is the correct weight. Go by her ribs to see if she is too thin or heavy. It could also be that she doesn't need as much food as you are giving her. Toys eat a tiny amount of food! Many poodles self regulate and don't want to be overweight.

Toys are a little more delicate than the larger poodles, but if she is healthy otherwise try not to worry too much.


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## Lilah+Jasper (May 13, 2010)

Add a little bit of tripe - it is great for delicate digestive systems and dogs usually cannot resist it. Brace yourself - it does have an unpleasant aroma (to people) but my dogs go crazy for it.

Because of Jasper's medical issues, I have been adding more tripe to his diet. I have been testing several brands. The solid Gold Beef Tripe was the worst in terms of smell - I won't buy this again. ZiwiPeak Lamb & Venison Tripe has a very mild aroma - we like this one. My next trial is Tripett brand and blends from mypetcarnivore.com

I have also used tripe treats: Vital Essentials 100% Raw Beef Tripe (both frozen and freeze dried) and I found hardly any smell to these at all.


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## Minnie (Apr 25, 2011)

outwest said:


> Instead of mixing the foods, throw out the science diet and only give the food you wish to feed.


I have to admit I'm surprised by this - I thought it was very important to mix the food and not do an immediate change? But as you can tell unfortunately I'm not an expert in doggie diet (we fed kibbles n' bits when I was a kid).

She seemed to eat a little bit of it today - but again spit out the TOTW on the floor and the SD is gone.... We self feed as I've been concerned about hypoglycemia because she is a tiny 4 lbs. If we add a perishable to her food then we'll need to rethink the self feed idea.....

I did check her ribs as suggested and she is at a good weight - maybe even a touch over - she saw the vet a couple weeks ago and she said that she was about right for her size.

Thanks for all the suggestions!!!!


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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

I disagree with switching cold turkey. Some dog's systems can tolerate it, but most dogs will suffer digestive upset, diahrrea, etc. using this method. 

If your dog doesn't like TOTW, maybe she'd like Earthborn. My boxer puppy loves TOTW, but it doesn't like him! Earthborn is holistic, and it comes in both grained versions (no corn, wheat, or soy) and grain-free versions. I've heard good things about it on another forum. Here's a link: Home : Earthborn Holistic Pet Food


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Is your little Bella 10 1/2 years old? 

Has she had her teeth checked by a veterinarian lately? Maybe she is having a dental issue that makes chewing kibble painful?

Lots of people feed canned only or the Natural Balance rolls only. If she doesn't like kibble I don't see why you couldn't feed the soft stuff instead. People used to think that kibble "cleaned" the teeth and soft food "ruined" the teeth, but some studies have recently shown that this is not true at all. 

The only way to keep the teeth clean is by brushing, veterinary cleanings and giving chews like raw meaty bones.


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## Minnie (Apr 25, 2011)

PaddleAddict said:


> Is your little Bella 10 1/2 years old?
> 
> Has she had her teeth checked by a veterinarian lately? Maybe she is having a dental issue that makes chewing kibble painful?
> 
> ...


Sorry about that.... no she is only 10.5 months....


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I have done a cold turkey switch in kibble and it has never hurt my dogs. I do give a wide variety of all kinds of other foods, though, so their systems are used to lots of things. I think it is a mistake to feed one type of food exclusively. I like to feed a good kibble base, so I know they are getting all their vitamins and minerals, but the rest is variety: a raw chicken wing throw on top occasionally, different brands of cans, different types of treats and biscuits, a piece of cooked broccoli, a raw carrot to chew on, etcetera. 

I suggested it because her dog was refusing the good food and only eating the SD, which means she may not have been getting enough food. I admit a toy is more delicate, but I don't see the deal with doing this big one/two week switch in foods, especially when she is refusing the better food. One or two days should suffice and she has done that already.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Pertaining to "people" food. Food is food is food. What is in quality kibble? Chicken? Rice? Veggies? Sounds like a nice dinner to me. Things such as eggs, cottage cheese, chicken broth, fat-free yogurt (not sugar free; has artificial sweeteners: ICK!) can all be flavorful and healthful additions to your dogs food. 

Pertaining to "cold turkey": if she's vomiting and not eating, I think you are past the point of worrying about that. I agree that I would throw out the science diet. Maybe try mixing the TOTW with some plain boiled white rice and a little water (or chicken broth) to soften the kibble and make it all "mush" together (so she can't pick out pieces). Gradually increase the amount of kibble and decrease the amount of rice, monitoring her stool quality. 

Petaining to the NB rolls: I believe they have a pretty high amount of sugar in them. Be cautious using this as a main source of sustenance. They are "treat" rolls, not "meal" rolls and thus are not nutritionally balance. 

Of course, there is nothing wrong with feeding straight canned food, other than it can get expensive.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I use NB rolls for training treats- they're terrific for that, but I don't think I would do more than a grated shaving on the base food. I think your idea of the rice and broth is great Sookster.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

I might think about trying another good quality kibble if TOTW isn't appealing for her. I feed Orijen/Acana, and mine likes it so much that I can use it for training treats as well. It's nice that excellent quality kibble is relatively easy to find now.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

JE-UK said:


> It's nice that excellent quality kibble is relatively easy to find now.


I agree, but it is overwhelming! When I went to switch mine to adult food I had to walk out of the store because I couldn't choose which one to use. There are so many! After a couple days of research I went back.


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## Minnie (Apr 25, 2011)

She's still not liking the TOTW.... the new pup loves it and digs through the NutriSource from the breeder to get to the TOTW bits 

Gemma has her first vet appointment this morning and Bella is going with to have her teeth checked - she has an underbite that may be causing an issue.... BTW - she loves the TOTW canned food. The odd thing is she'll eat bones and chews the ends of nylabones (we have to take them away) with no problems...

Wish me luck!!!


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## flightsoffancy (Nov 9, 2011)

I experienced this years ago with an under weight dog I rescued. It was incredibly stressful! I feel for you!
I ended up buying the raw diet and cooking it a little.(I know that is taboo for raw diet but she preferred it warm) She really really liked the Nature's Variety Beef patties. The aroma of the warm beef made her crazy! I was forced to make a complete change because she would pick through the old food. (Little Caesars) I monitored her stool and odd enough she did not experience any upset. However, your vet can provide you with something to help with tummy upset if she needs it. Once I got her eating it well and she gained weight, I was able to add a kibble food she and I agreed on.  I top dressed the kibble with the real meat and we were all happy and she was healthy.
I guess you could do the same thing with high quality/organic ground beef in the store. I say beef because of the high allergen rate of chicken and Lamb allergies are on the rise per my Vet.
Good luck!!!


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## Minnie (Apr 25, 2011)

I don't want to upset anyone but I'm quite surprised by the vets that I spoke with this morning during Bella's dental checkup and the puppy's exam.

I mentioned switching over to TOTW and they both were very very much against feeding TOTW (btw I don't purchase food from their office). They both prefer proven companies that have proven long term track records.

They suggested Royal Canine as an alternative. I mentioned that both pups were coming home one NutriSource and that Bella will eat this food and they were absolutely fine with this brand and that since Bella is so tiny she can stay on the puppy formula until it's time to move to adult food.

Interesting comments and as they weren't pushing SD or ordering from their office I don't think it was $ related - just a different view point.


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## flightsoffancy (Nov 9, 2011)

TOTW is a made by the same company as Diamond. They have had a few problems in the past. The Vets I know feel the same way. They also said that most middle of the road dry extruded food are about the same. Nutrisource has a good reputation and has a grain free line that is highly recommended. Let me know how it goes. I am bringing a tpoo home next week that is also on Nutrisource. :alberteinstein:


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

It's an unfortunate (but pretty well known) truth that most veterinarians receive little nutritional training during their time as students. And even greater problem is that what little training they get is from representatives from Science Diet, Royal Canin, Purina, and Iams. So what do you think they will recommend? The only thing that they know anything about. Vets that care to educate themselves can find a wealth of information available to them through other sources. My vet is one such vet, and he highly recommends TOTW to any client who has a dog that gets ear infections, skin infections, is itchy, has stool or stomach issues. 

I feel that you should do your own research and form your own opinions, rather than believing what you are spoon-fed by vets (who may or may not have a clue about nutrition) or what you are told on a forum of non-professionals (for the record, I have worked extensively in the veterinary field and have many colleagues who are currently in vet school or practicing veterinarians). So I'm going to provide you with some information and resources and I would strongly urge you to do some research and form your own opinions about what is best for your dog. Also for the record, Royal Canin is EXTREMELY overpriced for a not-so-high-quality food (low grade ingredients and cheap fillers). 

This will be long. Bear with me. 

Royal Canin was established in 1967. They are owned by Mars, a large food product manufacturer (one of their more popular products is a well known candy-bar brand). They manufacture lots of things other than pet food, and a lot of their "byproducts" from the products marketed at humans go into their pet food line. They were involved in the high-volume pet food recalls of 2007 due to melamine contaminated kibble. One of their biggest marketing ploys is advertising pet food that is "breed" specific (this causes me to shake my head every time I think about it). Royal Canin is based out of France. List of recalls since March 2007: 
List of recalls for Pet Food Products from Royal Canin


Diamond Pet Foods (manufactures TOTW) was established in 1970 (what was that your vet said about long-running?). TOTW is a newer product line by a well established company (RC comes out with new product lines yearly; this is common). This company also produces Solid Gold, Canidae, and several other high quality dog foods. Compare to RC which uses corn in most of their products. Diamond Pet Foods is based out of Missouri, with plants in various states in the US. This company solely manufactures pet food. They were involved in a low-scale recall in 2005 due to aflatoxin contaminated kibble. Here is a list of recalls since March 2007: List of recalls for Pet Food Products from DIAMOND

May I add that TOTW is much higher quality for significantly less cash. Now, I chose to just compare these two particular companies here since they were the ones in questions. There is a WEALTH of information out there on both of these companies, as well as many many others. I will end by providing you with some extra reading to begin you on your quest to become more knowledgeable about pet food. 

The Dog Food Project - How does your Dog Food Brand compare? -- excellent site to explain all of these things I have talked about, how to read a label, ingredients to be cautious of, etc. 
Dog Food Analysis - Reviews of kibble -- great for comparing kibbles to each other. 
Complete and Final.doc - 4shared.com - document sharing - download -- file to download. If you read nothing else, read this. It's long, but is very concise, well written, and easy to understand. 

So do your research and YOU decide what's best for you dog. No one here can tell you that, and honestly your vet can't either. They just simply (and tragically) don't get enough training in this field by unbiased sources to be reliable. That is, _unless_ they take initiative to go beyond what they are provided in vet school and educate themselves.

ETA: I am not familiar with NutriSource but at first glance it appears to be a decent food (much much better than RC). So if she will eat that, I say stick with it. Still won't hurt for you to read up on it though. That way you will know WHY it's better than RC.

ETA, again: Some varieties of Nutrisource contain menadione sodium bisulfate complex, a synthetic source of Vitamin K with many known (sometimes lethal) side effects. I would be wary and read labels very carefully.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

I decided to add something else but too late to edit  Sorry! 

I wanted to say that TOTW isn't the only high quality food on the market. Open yourself up to trying new things. For puppies, some of my favorites are: 

Blue Buffalo Puppy
Wellness Just For Puppy
Orijen/Acana puppy 

Other good brands (this is not a comprehensive list): 
Solid Gold 
Canidae 
Back to Basics 
Nature's Variety 
Before Grain 
Blue Buffalo Wilderness (grain free BB line) 
Natural Balance (a little grain heavy but widely available)

There are lots of new foods on the market that I'm unfamiliar with. You just have to shop around. And know what to look for.


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## dcyk (Nov 30, 2011)

you could try soaking your kibbles for 30 minutes with warm water before feeding, see if she likes it. Some pups like soft food. I know a maltese who won't even touch her bowl if it's not soaked

I've switched from First Choice Puppy Chicken (Ugh recommended by the shop) to First Choice Puppy Lamb, to Nature's Variety Instinct Grain free Salmon (hard to find suppliers where i live) to now Acana Pacifica Grain free All life stage. 

I use Fish For Dogs/Natural Balance/Evo treats, all fish stuff. And i noticed my boy's coat was shinier and nicer after i switched him to grain free itch less(Still itching but less), never had a loose stool after the switch unless it was after a vet visit for a jab or such.

Wanted to try TOTW Pacifica, but found it hard to get around where i live as well, so it'll be Acana all the way unless i want to swap with Orijen, im just worried he'll get itchy again from the chicken.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Go onto:

The Dog Food Project - How does your Dog Food Brand compare?

for a wealth of information on how to choose your own dog food. The whole site is informative but I look at the :

The Dog Food Project - Ingredients to avoid

and specific product groups section.

I personally will not feed TOTW foods.. it has been known that ethoxyquin in Diamond foods has been used in the past and some say currently. Before I knew they were owned by diamond I was trying to feed this to my girls.. I do long switches like maybe over a three week period and when they started eating it full time both dogs threw up and had diarrhea. My toy poodle had never thrown up from eating a food before or diarrhea. I stopped feeding it immeadiately and they were fine.. and it has nothing to do with how rich it is cause they had been on Evo and other grainfree just fine. 

As for feeding the pup, I free fed my toy and it made her picky as well and constantly switched foods. It wasnt until I realized that she wouldnt starve herself and started putting my foot down.. ONLY kibble, 2x a day, and if she didnt eat then she would have to wait till next meal time. In 2 days she started eating her food.. 

I also feed Fromm Four star products which are meant to be rotated.. My dogs love this food and I trust the food/company. When 5 wk old puppies snub the proplan that their breeder wants to feed them, for their mother's tastier Fromms.. well that tells me something lol.


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## 12489 (Apr 2, 2013)

I have one small suggestion since I use Earthborn Holistic and my Bichon has done great one the small dog bites and they are much easier on little ones. She had great success on the grain free meadow feast as well. It's a great product and highly recommended by several people who care for my dog. 

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## Caniche (Jun 10, 2013)

Ryker is *extremely* picky as well. I've tried just about every form of kibble for him and this is what I've found...

His favorite brands are Fromm and Wellness Core.

He wants his food soaked in warm water to soften it (I used to think he needed to crunch of kibble to clean his teeth, but if you ever noticed dog vomit, the kibble is whole, so they don't chew it anyways).

I top his food with boiled beef, scrambled eggs, deli turkey, white meat, fish (he doesn't like it, Cash does), peas, carrots, etc. And he loves raw green beans!

Also, if the bile thing is an issue, I've introduced Ryker to Famotidine and it has helped SO much.

And since he's underweight, I give him a hunk of Nutracal before food so he gets an appetite. 


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## PoodlePaws (May 28, 2013)

Are you in the U.S? I have a small roll of NB you can have. It's the lamb one. I can mail it to you. I won't ever use it as my girls are on grain-free. Just PM me and its yours. 


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## Cailin77 (Jul 21, 2012)

Maybe you could try to get samples of various foods to see if you can find one that she will eat? Several of the "boutique" pet food stores in my area carry free samples. Even feed stores like Agway sometimes have samples. Brody will eat anything, and doesn't get sick from switching foods, but I'll often grab a few grain free samples to use as treats. It's also been helpful, because my cats can't tolerate all foods and a sample size bag is enough for me to see if it might work for them. (My cats' diet is an on going project- my older cat had been grain free for months, but suddenly couldn't tolerate it any more. Now I can't seem to find anything other than Nutro max that doesn't make her sick! But I hate feeding her Nutro because it's not very good quality and has corn as it's second ingredient!) 

As other people pointed out, there are lots of good brands out there. I like TOTW because it's high quality, but also affordable. Earthborn Holistic is also high quality, and similarly priced. Nature's Balance has good options as well, but I just found that they weren't the best value for quality level. Merrick's Before Grain is also good... I just couldn't find anyone near me that carries it in a size that was reasonable for a small dog (obviously 30 pound bags won't work for my single mpoo). Brody is on grain free, so all the brands I suggested have grain free options, but there are even more great brands if you don't need to limit ingredients for allergies like I do!


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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

Minnie said:


> My picky little Bella (10.5) is driving me to distraction with her pickiness/food issues. I've been slowing trying to change her food from that horrid Science Diet she was started on at the breeder.
> 
> Our latest try is TOTW - she digs through the bowl and picks out the TOTW and spits it out on the floor - and when it finally looked like she ate a little she threw up a little and then had bile come up as well.
> 
> ...


Check out the Natural Balance roll ingredients... sugar is number 3 or 4. No wonder she loves it  For the kibble I have heard Taste of the Wild is bland compared to other brands (an interesting groomer at another shop tries the kibbles and she says it is bland lol). Maybe try another good brand. You could also try crushing up the SD in a baggie, mixing it with water and coating the kibble with it and then weaning her off of that.


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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

flightsoffancy said:


> I experienced this years ago with an under weight dog I rescued. It was incredibly stressful! I feel for you!
> I ended up buying the raw diet and cooking it a little.(I know that is taboo for raw diet but she preferred it warm) She really really liked the Nature's Variety Beef patties. The aroma of the warm beef made her crazy! I was forced to make a complete change because she would pick through the old food. (Little Caesars) I monitored her stool and odd enough she did not experience any upset. However, your vet can provide you with something to help with tummy upset if she needs it. Once I got her eating it well and she gained weight, I was able to add a kibble food she and I agreed on.  I top dressed the kibble with the real meat and we were all happy and she was healthy.
> I guess you could do the same thing with high quality/organic ground beef in the store. I say beef because of the high allergen rate of chicken and Lamb allergies are on the rise per my Vet.
> Good luck!!!


Be careful about cooking prepared raw diets. If the ground bones get cooked in that food it can cause blockages (raw bones are safe, cooked bones are not safe).


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## Minnie (Apr 25, 2011)

OP here - this is a very old thread - nearly 2 yrs ago  

It is interesting to read back though the struggles we had with picky Bella. We researched a ton and got wonderful help on this forum and have completely switched over to a prepared raw diet - recently changing from freeze dried to frozen raw after our move as there is a lot of good options in our new area. 

Bella is doing wonderful on this diet and does the happy dance at each meal so any effort this causes is more than worth it!


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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

I totally did not see how old this thread is! Glad to hear that she's doing good


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