# Teaching fronts (and finishes)



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Very interesting to see, thanks for the videos !


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

Fun to watch! He was really focusing in there towards the end. Nice progress; can't wait to see more!

--Q


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Q he is a quick study, no surprise though. He is a poodle after all. I can't get over how big he looks. I don't think he is quite as tall as Lily yet though.

I should add that for the teaching video with Javelin I was not using a front/finish box. I like to start with getting the dog to understand a decent approximation of the behavior requested in a few different places and level of distraction before I start to work on getting great positions. The most important thing early on is to get the tuck sit and get rid of the tendency for a rock back sit.


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## Axeldog (Aug 29, 2014)

Just took a quick peek at these at lunch today. Need to look again tonight when I can hear what you are saying. Thanks for posting. 

I loved watching Javelin figuring it out. Such adorable puppiness!


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## snmim (Sep 7, 2015)

That was nice to watch and see all of your dogs in action, thank you for the videos. I am also working on fronts with Mira, although with a different method. I did not think to generalize the behavior like you did first, I just went all in to get the right positions. She is placing her two front feet on a small box and pivoting to wherever I move. I click once she she is aligned with my body. So far she is doing great with that, although she needs some work on turning right. Javelin looks to be an enthusiastic learner!

Can you explain to me the difference between a tuck sit and a rock back sit? I've read about it before but I'm still a little confused on what exactly the difference is. **I forgot to add how you would achieve to fix the sits as well!


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

What a great video! All of your dogs are so adorable. I love seeing Javelin jump about because my dad gets on my case about Maizie's jumping and I always tell him it's just a phase that even really good Spoo puppies go through.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Tuck sit - the dog moves his hindquarters towards his front feet as he sits. Their shoulders end up about where they started so they remain in "heel position"

Rock sit - the dog rocks back onto his hindquarters and moves his front legs back. This means the dog is now BEHIND you and no longer in correct "heel" position. This is the type sit most dogs learn as puppies with food held over the head. Unless you are competing of course this is not that big a deal but for competition you want them to learn the tuck sit.

when doing a come front you still want the dog to tuck so he is closer to you. 

One word of caution do not always end a come front with a finish or your dog will start to anticipate the command and go right to heel position. There may be times when you want them to come to you and go right to heel but for Obedience competition it is necessary for them stop and sit in front of you until commanded otherwise.


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## Axeldog (Aug 29, 2014)

Catherine
Thanks for posting these!

I wonder how to teach the tuck sit? Vs. the rock back sit? I think Axel does it both ways right now. He will tuck when he is scooting in closer to get the lure.

Is there a specific thing you can do, or do you just wait for them to do it naturally and then click/treat it?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

spindledreams thanks for that nice explanation of a tuck sit vs. a rock back sit. And yes, one should be careful about turning the dog into an anticipating auto-finisher.

Axeldog, I can make another video that shows more closely how to get the tuck sit but it may take some time to get to it since the poodles and I are going to a big show this weekend. In words, what you want to do is sit on a dining or desk chair. Put a collar and either a traffic lead or a tab on the dog. Put gentle upward pressure on the front of the dog's neck by just putting the slightest bit of tension on the lead or tab with it coming up behind the dog's head. Hold the leash in your left hand. Have a treat in your right hand and hold it right in front of the dog's muzzle so that they don't have to look up to get it. As you tell the dog to sit he will try to rock back, but keep control of his front end and again say sit if you need to. As soon as he sits give the treat. That will get you started.


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## Axeldog (Aug 29, 2014)

lily cd re said:


> spindledreams thanks for that nice explanation of a tuck sit vs. a rock back sit. And yes, one should be careful about turning the dog into an anticipating auto-finisher.
> 
> Axeldog, I can make another video that shows more closely how to get the tuck sit but it may take some time to get to it since the poodles and I are going to a big show this weekend. In words, what you want to do is sit on a dining or desk chair. Put a collar and either a traffic lead or a tab on the dog. Put gentle upward pressure on the front of the dog's neck by just putting the slightest bit of tension on the lead or tab with it coming up behind the dog's head. Hold the leash in your left hand. Have a treat in your right hand and hold it right in front of the dog's muzzle so that they don't have to look up to get it. As you tell the dog to sit he will try to rock back, but keep control of his front end and again say sit if you need to. As soon as he sits give the treat. That will get you started.


Catherine
Thank you - this is a perfect explanation, and I get it. Now Axel and I have another fun thing to work on inside when it is cold outside! 

(I need to send you a check for all of my obedience training lessons you are giving me )

Good luck and success at the show this weekend!!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Axeldog said:


> Catherine
> Thank you - this is a perfect explanation, and I get it. Now Axel and I have another fun thing to work on inside when it is cold outside!
> 
> *One of the keys is to keep all of it fun!*
> ...


*As to sending a check, I wouldn't take it, but thanks for the vote of confidence. *I have always done service work in relation to everything I do. I have been a volunteer for Literacy Volunteers and have served on the boards of a number of professional organization. In the dog world I have volunteered at trials by stewarding and ring crewing. I also am a frequent obedience and rally match show judge. I like to think that I can use my experience to help people here as an extension of that service.

Thanks for your good wishes regarding the weekend. I have Lily entered for four days of rally (which should put me one leg away from an RAE7). We are also doing agility two days (not sure how that will go, but standard should be good). I also am hoping to see Javelin's breeder there. Separately I plan to run down to Yale tomorrow for an initial visit at the canine cognition lab for Javelin. I also hope to get together with my niece who goes to Mt. Holyoke. It will be busy but fun.

This show has great shopping too.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Here is more information on the difference and another way to teach it since you can never have too many tools in your training tool box. 

Competition-Quality Sits


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

spindledreams said:


> Here is more information on the difference and another way to teach it since you can never have too many tools in your training tool box.
> 
> Competition-Quality Sits


That is an excellent explanation spindledreams. I agree the more ways you have for approaching an issue the better!


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