# Pippin had a seizure



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Oh dear well here's to hoping it was a one off, nothings ever easy is it. Hoping that Pippin's is feeling better soon


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Hugs to Pippin, but I'll bet he remembers nothing either. It's a shut-down of the brain and body, but no visible consequences. And rictus is the most common symptom of a seizure. 

If I can allay your fears somewhat, there's probably a good percentage of members here who have learned to deal with seizures... and I would be one of them. There's little that can be done, so mostly I just let them run their course.

They always occur in the wee hours of the morning, so I don't take him anywhere. And, by the time the sun is up, there is no sign that a seizure ever happened.


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

Rictus - that's the word I couldn't find in my cold-fuzzed brain! Absolutely it was that.

Does Tonka sleep with you?? I worry if I might not hear Pippin during the night.

She's had a few mornings where she's woken us up crying - seemingly to go and eat grass - but maybe she has been having other little fits.

She's totally back to "normal" now anyway, being a little madam...


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

What a frightening thing! Relieved to hear she's okay now and you have the meds on hand, if need be. I so wish your poodle worries were fewer, my friend!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Manxcat said:


> Does Tonka sleep with you?? I worry if I might not hear Pippin during the night.


No, he doesn't. But a Standard going thru a seizure will generally wake anybody up to a rhythmic thumping... as he lashes himself against.... something. 

If I didn't hear him, I don't think it would matter. The seizure comes, and goes, and life goes on. The last time *October 15th* he lashed himself against a sharp part of the shower door. (He often sleeps curled up in the shower stall.) In the middle of the nite, I couldn't see that 'til I saw some blood next morning. 

So... if you ARE up, make sure that no harm is coming to Pippin in the throes... and make sure no harm will come to your glass doors and furniture as they go thru the 'post' phase. That phase is called by some of us 'the stupid phase'. Where they often tend to want to get up and MOVE! 'Cept they have little control of their movements. Tonka winds up staggering around the house for a while... but at a very determined high rate of speed! Once he went out the patio door and blew the screen door right off its track and onto the patio. 

If their antics weren't so shocking they'd be hilarious. 

There's a proper name for 'the stupid phase' that I can't think of right now.  Post something... like postpartum... but not.

ETA: It just came to me... post ictal.


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

Thank you CB for your insights, I'm very grateful 

Fortunately a 10lb tpoo in post-ictal state is probably a bit easier than a large spoo but we'll keep an eye on what's going on with her. I usually wake up if I hear either dog crying - I sleep on high alert most of the time anyway.

Thanks


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Sometimes life just isn't fair... I am so sorry. I hope that was the end of it.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

How terrifying! I hope it is a one off, or easily controlled - I believe most cases of epilepsy are first diagnosed between the ages of 1 and 6, so that would probably be everyone's first guess, if she is showing no other symptoms. A friend's Ridgeback had one episode a couple of years ago, and has been absolutely fine ever since.


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

Oh no! Pippin.... what's going on with you, boy? I hope this is nothing serious.
My neighbor's Lab has seizures. She said it just scares you so badly. Then, they act like nothing happened. Her dog takes phenylbarbitol every day (I dog sit). I hope that Pippin doesn't need daily meds...


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## SusanG (Aug 8, 2009)

Oh, I'm so sorry. Poor Pippin, and poor you! Its no different than if Pippin were your natural child is it? I hope all will be ok. If there is another seizure, isn't there something that can be given to prevent them, once you know? I am always worrying about Callie, even when there isn't anything to worry about. One little deviation and my mind is off worrying "what if I lose her to something, what if she has something wrong I don't know about". Oh boy, and in two weeks I will have two to obsess over! A little prayer for your baby. Hopefully 2015 will be a good year for you!


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Oh gracious goodness, Manxcat. I'm so sorry about the seizure and hope like crazy the root cause can be solved and Pippin has no more. I wish both your darlings could have perfect health, too! ((((((Hugs Manxcat))))))


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

So sorry- hope it's an isolated incident. 

People get auras sometimes right before seizures in which they see, hear, or smell funny things. Stands to reason dogs may too. I get that before my migraines and my vision is like looking through a kaleidoscope, and I know I'm in for a doozy:-( Maybe she had some kind of aura when she was lurching into things? 

Maybe if that lurching behavior happens again, give her the valium right away and it may lessen the intensity. Just a thought- you could ask your vet what he or she thinks. 

But hopefully there will be no occasion to think of this again!


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Sadly you do have two "normal" dogs epilepsy is a very normal disease. Like all children if they get sick it will always be on the weekend. anti-convulsive drugs may help but sometimes the side effects are worse than the seizures. Hope all will be as well as possible for you all.
Eric


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Oh dear, I guess that you were chosen by above to be Mum to the "special needs" poodles because they knew what great care you would take of them, and what a fantastic life they would have despite their issues. Here's hoping that this was a transient or easily manageable issue.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Oh dear. You had such an upset. It's so frightening and disturbing. I'm glad at least the blood work looked fine. When my Lab had liver disease, she had seizures and over time they increased and worsened. One here, one there isn't a big deal but sometimes the darn brain gets into the habit, once they start happening often. I hope Pippin's episode was not indicative of anything that will become serious. My daughter and son both also had on when they were babies/toddler...due to a high fever. There were no repeats. But it was very frightening to me. My daughter's lasted something like 15 - 20 minutes, all the way to the hospital, not something I read about in my text books. 

Anyhow, I'm sending you my best that this doesn't happen again and that Pippin will be fine. You just don't need this worry. (((hugs)))


CB, That aftermath is called post ictal stage. They're not quite back together yet...mentally and physically, they're just exhausted because when convulsing every muscle in the body is in contraction.


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## ChantersMom (Aug 20, 2012)

Manxcat, I will keep you and Pippin in my thoughts and hope for a good outcome!


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

I know how scary it is, My Jrt had seizures and I fostered 2 pugs that both had them. Stogy, the jrt, would have them about every 3-4 months. He was on Potassium Bromide because he didn't do well on Phenobarbital. Tippy, the pug, would have about 1 a week. Always scary but it does get easier to handle when you know what you are dealing with. Pippin may never have another. You hang in there, I bet your heart is still pounding!


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## Newmum (Jan 2, 2014)

Just when you thought you might be able to give up that reserved spot at the vets!

I'm so sorry for you and Pippin, but I'm glad she got back to herself so quickly. Before one of Ember's collapses/ seizures she starting acting really weird, it was almost like zoomies but a massively hyped up version that she didn't seem to be enjoying, then she starting limping and it progressed from there. When I picked her up she wet herself and then went limp, I had to carry her home, my mum was with me and I kept asking 'are her eyes open?' I thought she was dying too, its such a horrible feeling. 

I was on high alert for a while afterwards, every little odd step she took I was like 'here it comes!' but you do get back normal as a little time passes. It helps that almost straight away they act like nothing happened and just get on with it and wonder what they did to get all the lovely extra attention! Her behaviour in the days leading up could have been related but I think the pre-ictal stage is usually a few hours at the most, but I might be wrong there. I wouldn't be surprised if Pushkin knew something wasn't right before it happened too. I had a friend at school who had epilepsy and she would only ever have a seizure when she was a bit run down. Maybe Pippin has been feeling a bit more tired in the days leading up to it which caused her to be a little ratty and the tiredness triggered the seizure?

I really hope that its just a one off. If it is epilepsy, if the seizures aren't too close together she can probably go without the meds.

Sending you big hugs


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

How frightening, hope it turns out to be nothing! Will keep you in my thoughts.
You have had enough, praying for good health for both your babies.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I am so sorry! I understand how frightening it is. Mom had a Standard who had seizures and we had a german Shorthaired Pointer who would have two a year. My girl Whippet had one after we gave her a natural anxiety remedy. The vet said it is an unregulated industry and not to give it to her again. Have you got Pushkin on anything like that? If not, it likely is connected to being hit by the car. Hopefully, this will not be a routine thing and he will be ok. Warm thoughts!


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

manxcat, this must have scared you all no end. hoping that it was a one off and there will be no further occurrences. you all have already gone through so much with pushkin.

speaking of pushkin, i hope you don't think this ghoulish, but i do find it interesting that he may have talent as a seizure alert dog.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I suspect that Pippin would have another fit at the thought of Pushkin showing hidden depths!


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Oh, poor Pippin and poor you! I would have been a total mess and just freaking out! You did an amazing job keeping yourself together and getting her to the vet so quick. Are they going to put her on phenobarbital, or is there more testing they have to do to find out exactly why it happened? I hope you all have a restful stress free day, you definitely deserve it.


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

patk said:


> manxcat, this must have scared you all no end. hoping that it was a one off and there will be no further occurrences. you all have already gone through so much with pushkin.
> 
> speaking of pushkin, i hope you don't think this ghoulish, but i do find it interesting that he may have talent as a seizure alert dog.


Yes, it did cross our minds that we could use him as a detector! He had hubby up about 1am barking (we've only just remembered) but we assumed it was some bogus sound he objected to... but maybe not!



fjm said:


> I suspect that Pippin would have another fit at the thought of Pushkin showing hidden depths!


LOL! Oh yes! Especially if she had to give him any thanks for looking after her!!

Thanks for all the support and helpful responses - we will just have to wait and see, and not ignore night-time barking or whining (not that we do anyway but it may speed me out of bed in future!). No meds for now, just see how things go.

After various disabled or sick rescue cats over the years it would have been nice to have trouble-free dogs though...! Must be pay-back for some bad karma in a previous life!! :wink:


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## Rachel76 (Feb 3, 2014)

I hope Pippin gets well and stays well. As fjm says if Pushkin shows a talent for something it might just set her off again. Don't worry Pipin, I'm sure it was just a fluke.

(good job Pushkin  )


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> Oh, poor Pippin and poor you! I would have been a total mess and just freaking out! *You did an amazing job keeping yourself together and getting her to the vet so quick*. Are they going to put her on phenobarbital, or is there more testing they have to do to find out exactly why it happened? I hope you all have a restful stress free day, you definitely deserve it.


Hah - I arrived at the vets with bed-head, a jumper and jeans over my nightie, and no cleaned teeth!! Came home for a loooooong shower afterwards and apologised to the vet for morning-breath! Yeuk!!

Fortunately, hubby drove and went for take-out coffee while we were waiting for the results  what a star!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Been there, done that - not even a bra on lol! I was so embarrassed, but the girls at the front desk assured me that they had seen much worse - very often lol!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

To the best of my knowledge, there are no tests for Epilepsy... or seizures. And my vet was reluctant to take my word that he was having them at all. 

Maybe reluctant is the wrong word. She sure wasn't in a hurry to put him on phenobarb 'til she saw him in rictus herself... and a shot of the meds took him right out of it. That defined it clearly for her. 

But seizures are harder on owners than they seem to be on the dog. They come out of it just fine... and carry on. 

Be alert, be aware, but dinnae fash yersel lass.


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## DavidT (Apr 15, 2010)

Hi,
sorry about your having to go through this with your dog.

Our 4 year old male Standard Poodle has gran mal seizures as well as Sebatious Adenitis (no connection, we assume). He started having these at age 2 years. He was put on Chinese meds used for this purpose, and this held the seizures to about once per month for over a year. Our Vet felt that this was still too often and suggested changing his meds to Zonisimide. So far, it has been 15 weeks without a seizure. Also so far, there are no side affects except he has a little less energy. His kidneys etc. have been checked and are o.k.
I'm not saying that this is a solution for you, just keep it in the back of your mind as a possible help worth considering.

Best regards,

DavidT


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Oh Manxcat I hated reading this .......you've already surpassed your quota of worry for any human, for sure! My hope for Pippin is that it was just a one time event or at the least, minor and controllable. I'm soooo sorry you and your husband had to go through this, and I will remember your little family in my prayers. Hugs to you all!!!!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Countryboy said:


> To the best of my knowledge, there are no tests for Epilepsy... or seizures. And my vet was reluctant to take my word that he was having them at all.
> 
> Maybe reluctant is the wrong word. She sure wasn't in a hurry to put him on phenobarb 'til she saw him in rictus herself... and a shot of the meds took him right out of it. That defined it clearly for her.
> 
> ...



Isn't it so that they can tell if there was a seizure in the bloodwork if it is within a certain time frame of the event?
I am wondering what the point of doing a CT scan would be? It may or may not tell you if there was some kind of previous brain injury, but would that really change the course of treatment? I seriously doubt that would be an operable kind of thing, but just something that you would treat with meds to control the symptoms. 
But let's hope that as with many dogs, it is a one time event or so far between that it is not necessary to treat it at all.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Isn't it so that they can tell if there was a seizure in the bloodwork if it is within a certain time frame of the event?


Tonka goes for bloodwork twice a year. But only to measure phenobarb levels. I don't know any other tests.



Tiny Poodles said:


> I am wondering what the point of doing a CT scan would be? It may or may not tell you if there was some kind of previous brain injury, but would that really change the course of treatment? I seriously doubt that would be an operable kind of thing, but just something that you would treat with meds to control the symptoms.


Well they wouldn't be able to see straight-up Epilepsy thru a CT scan, but they may find something else that is visible that could be causing seizures. Maybe that's why the scan.


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## PoodlePaws (May 28, 2013)

Poor little lovey. How scary! Hopefully this is just a fluke.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Countryboy said:


> Tonka goes for bloodwork twice a year. But only to measure phenobarb levels. I don't know any other tests.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What would be the point - you are not going to do neurosurgery on a dog, so why would you put them through anesthesia for a CT scan. 
And I said bloodwork done within an hour or two after the event will tell you if it was a seizure, not when they are doing well!


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

How scary for you. One of my daughters had seizures as a newborn and I know how frightening it is to watch them happen. You feel so helpless, and the baby/dog can't tell you how they feel. I hope that Pippin will be fine and the seizures will be few and far between. What a good boy Pushkin was to sense that something was wrong.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

When Stogy had his first seizure we scooped him up and got him to the vet in about 4 minutes (very close to the house), he had another seizure while the vet was examining him. We took blood right away but it didn't indicate anything wrong. We chose not to do an MRI or CT and just treated him for epilepsy (which my vet said was the diagnosis they give when they have no idea what is causing the seizures). What I understood was bloods might indicate a condition that can cause seizures (diabetes, low blood sugar) but not an actual seizure. Does that make sense?


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## mom2m (Dec 24, 2014)

So sorry to hear of this scare. I hope things remain calm and peaceful for all...sending positive thoughts!


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Yes CBC (complete blood count) tests are used to identify/rule out things such as infections or allergies that could have caused the seizure. Chemistry panels are used test for electrolyte and blood sugar imbalances. And a complete metabolic panel would be used to detect kidney or liver damage and even diabetes which could also be causing the seizure. So basically they are used to rule out other conditions. EEG's, CT scans, and MRI's would be used to map the electrical activity of the brain giving a better idea of what could be causing the seizures and where in the brain they are occurring. This put together with the patient's medical history and blood tests will give the Vet a better idea in what type of seizure disorder or epilepsy syndrome the pet has and the affect it is having on their brain. Of course these are all extremely expensive diagnostic tests and most people and vets would chose to just start treating for epilepsy if all the blood results came back fine. And yes phenobarbital levels are taken every 6 months or so to make sure the pet is on a correct dosage. 

In Pippin's case I'm guessing the vet is worried about head trauma (from her accident) being the cause of her seizures and not the usual form of epilepsy. Hence the lack of her being put on phenobarbital and request of a CT scan.


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

Yes, I got the impression that the vet was suggesting maybe a CT scan to see if there is anything in her brain that might be causing the seizures - given that she didn't have a scan when she was run over. 

Unless I'm convinced that it will be of use we won't be having it done as it involves us ferrying over to the UK (4 hours), staying overnight etc which adds hugely to the costs for us... not that expense would stop me if it was for surgery or something vital.

I think the blood tests were to rule out any other illness that might have caused the seizure - infection or whatever - but all were fine.

We're keeping a "Pippin Diary" now on the calendar with notes of her behaviour - well any oddities anyway - just in case it happens again and there is a pattern. 

It's been really reassuring to hear from others that have dogs with seizures, so thank you all for your input. I was so scared! I will be able to deal with them now if they happen again - Nurse Manxcat - but seeing her in rictus like that will stay with me for a long time.

This "dog watch" thing is exhausting!! Watching Pushkin for bleeding and/or injury and now Miss Pip for fits... eeeehhhh, I thought pet ownership was supposed to be relaxing!!! Hah!!!

Thanks everyone, you're the best. xx


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## Newmum (Jan 2, 2014)

Countryboy said:


> To the best of my knowledge, there are no tests for Epilepsy... or seizures. And my vet was reluctant to take my word that he was having them at all.
> 
> Maybe reluctant is the wrong word. She sure wasn't in a hurry to put him on phenobarb 'til she saw him in rictus herself... and a shot of the meds took him right out of it. That defined it clearly for her.


Ember had what they called a 'fit and fainting panel' test along with all the other tests but they said it wasn't very reliable, they were taking blood anyway so I didn't see the harm. I don't think there is a proper test for epilepsy, they just diagnose it based on ruling out every other possible cause of the seizures.

I know what you mean about the reluctance from the vets, the first one Ember had I took her to the vet but she had already recovered completely, I think its more of 'I cant treat what I cant see'

On that note, I was advised to film any further seizures we saw, which I did and it might be a good thing to do with Pippin. While it feels a bit odd to film your dog in distress it was very useful for the vet and then later the neurologist to see the video.


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

Newmum said:


> On that note, I was advised to film any further seizures we saw, which I did and it might be a good thing to do with Pippin. While it feels a bit odd to film your dog in distress it was very useful for the vet and then later the neurologist to see the video.


That's a good idea - I generally have the camera within easy reach, or my phone, and now I hopefully won't be in such a panic I might actually remember to do this. Thanks Newmum x


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Manxcat said:


> Yes, I got the impression that the vet was suggesting maybe a CT scan to see if there is anything in her brain that might be causing the seizures - given that she didn't have a scan when she was run over.
> 
> Unless I'm convinced that it will be of use we won't be having it done as it involves us ferrying over to the UK (4 hours), staying overnight etc which adds hugely to the costs for us... not that expense would stop me if it was for surgery or something vital.
> 
> ...


Yeah, what's all this hype about pets lowering your blood pressure? Give me a break, right?

Hang in there. Hopefully it will be an isolated incident or at least not too frequent.


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

Yikes. Scary stuff. hope you have a better time of it soon. You've already been through enough.

Rick


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

What a drag and super scary too! I think her crankiness in the couple of days before and Pushkin's behavior are significant as potentially important predictors of an impending seizure. Maybe if you can read those signs and be prepared it will make it easier to have your wits about you to be able to catch the next one (if it happens) on video. Here's hoping for good news and easy solutions.


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