# Growing pains/ Panosteitis



## Nana06 (Oct 18, 2021)

Happy new year everyone! 

Has any of your poodles (mainly spoos I assume) have had growing pains in their back legs? What was the symptoms and how did you figure it out? What did you do to relieve your pups’ pain?

I’m seeing a vet on Wednesday (they said it was not an emergency).


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

I'm not sure how I would identify growing pains in localized area in a dog. In humans it's usually general soreness from what I understand. (What everyone told me was growing pains as a human turned out to be inflammation I've had my whole life.) Can you describe what you're identifying as growing pains? My dogs stretch more often and maybe had some difficulty getting comfortable before a big growth spurt, but often people use that term for any variety of behaviors or pains.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Mia had them about a half dozen times. She'd be playing and suddenly come up lame in one leg. Sometimes she healed as swiftly as an Italian soccer player (i.e. as soon as play stopped) and sometimes it took a day or two of crate rest (no running or jumping). The only cure is rest and time.


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## Nana06 (Oct 18, 2021)

Basically he has been very lethargic for the past week and whines/whimpers when we touch his back legs. He never whined before but for the past few days, he will just jump up from his nap crying as if he was in pain… very weird behavior which we thought was emotional but seems to be physical… he is still running/eating/playing but something is very off. I had a video call with my vet today and she says it might be a soft tissue injury and that he should no longer play or run for 7 days. I cannot see a vet IRL before Wednesday. Because it comes and goes I don’t think it’s a soft tissue injury, so I was wondering if it could be growing pains. But I guess I won’t know for sure before they do an MRI & X-Ray on Wednesday


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## Nana06 (Oct 18, 2021)

Liz said:


> Mia had them about a half dozen times. She'd be playing and suddenly come up lame in one leg. Sometimes she healed as swiftly as an Italian soccer player (i.e. as soon as play stopped) and sometimes it took a day or two of crate rest (no running or jumping). The only cure is rest and time.


When you say “come up lame”, do you mean she was limping?
PS: as a French person, your message about Italian footballers made me laugh 😂


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Nana06 said:


> Basically he has been very lethargic for the past week and whines/whimpers when we touch his back legs.


This doesn't sound like growing pains.


Nana06 said:


> When you say “come up lame”, do you mean she was limping?


Yes, she'd yelp in pain and then hold one paw up in the air. She'd limp when she walked, unable to put much weight on it.


Nana06 said:


> PS: as a French person, your message about Italian footballers made me laugh 😂


Ha!


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

That sounds more like an injury than "growing pains." Dogs do not show pain as readily as humans do and depending on the severity of the injury may not show any signs of pain when sufficiently aroused. Later the pain may catch up with them.


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## Porkchop (Sep 2, 2019)

Happy new year!
Good luck with the vet appointment on Wednesday. Your pup sounds to be having some real discomfort beyond growing pains. Hopefully it’s just a simple injury that requires rest to heal up.


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## Nana06 (Oct 18, 2021)

Many thanks guys, I wish I could see a vet earlier!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

To me that doeas actually sound like growing pains. Lily and Peeves both had a fair amount of discomfort from it, Javelin not so much. It was intermittent and most episodes were localized. Our vet gave meloxicam and directed it to be used rather like advil. We knew they needed meds when they groaned after exertion. I would not panic, but just use your time between now and seeing the vet to do some brain game work so as not to aggravate things.


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## Nana06 (Oct 18, 2021)

lily cd re said:


> To me that doeas actually sound like growing pains. Lily and Peeves both had a fair amount of discomfort from it, Javelin not so much. It was intermittent and most episodes were localized. Our vet gave meloxicam and directed it to be used rather like advil. We knew they needed meds when they groaned after exertion. I would not panic, but just use your time between now and seeing the vet to do some brain game work so as not to aggravate things.


Thanks, we are doing a few 5 minutes walk on leash per day and trying to stimulate this poor puppy mentally in the meantime…. He loves fetching more than anything else on this planet so I do pity him but… 🤷🏻‍♀️


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## Nana06 (Oct 18, 2021)

Hello again - just to update you guys. The vet examined Wellie this am and said she did believe it was growing pains in addition to muscle stiffness due to the veryyy long car ride from the Netherlands last Thursday. She said to keep on resting until Friday and it should go away. Poor puppy is in a lot of pain in his back legs apparently. She said that it was common at around 6 months and we should not worry (perhaps I was getting slightly too stressed out, already giving her his parent’s hip dysplasia scores - which are excellent- and begging her to x-ray him ASAP 🙈).
PS: she prescribed anti-inflammatory medication for him to take with his food


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Phew! Glad you were able to get him sorted. I now how I feel after a long car ride, poor guy.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I am glad you have answers and that literally this is something your pup will outgrow! NSAIDS will help for sure.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

I'm hoping that's all that is wrong with Simon. He cam up lame on Christmas day, and was finally able to get in to see the vet last Friday. They couldn't find anything obvious, and prescribed carprofen and to go ahead and start him on a joint supplement now, rather than in a couple of years, like I was planning. He was slowly getting better, and even had a bit of a walk and recall training yesterday. This morning, he seemed find, but started limping on the same leg again when we were taking a walk. 

I got some video of him this evening. 






When Leo had pano, she was never lame for long, and it usually moved around from leg to leg. He's got another appointment tomorrow afternoon, and we might do x-rays if they still can't find anything with just palpation and manipulation.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Poor guy 😢. I imagine you've already examined him for slivers and foot injuries?


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Poor guy 😢. I imagine you've already examined him for slivers and foot injuries?


Yeah, he was poked, prodded, wiggled, and jiggled. I was concerned about a possible broken toe, so the vet paid special attention to his feet, and didn't feel or see anything.


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## Nana06 (Oct 18, 2021)

I'm so sorry.... The vet told us that when limping is involved on young dogs, it is often a soft tissue injury (ligament rupture/sprain...). Did the vet had any idea of where the pain was coming from during the physical examination? Is it only one leg? The issue is that an xray (x-rays) will visualize the joints and bones but won't be able to pick up on a potential soft tissue area, only a MRI can. I hope they find the answers soon!! My Wellie is much better, but every time we play fetch again, he will whine for a little bit afterwards - clearly in pain. So we are keeping it to 10 minutes tops.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

He doesn't like being touched by strangers (requires a muzzle, even), but the vet manipulated and palpated both hind legs, and got the same response on both of them. So far as I can tell, it's just his right hind. If it's pano, there is a good chance it will show on an x-ray.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

And $200 later, we are home.

The good news is that the x-rays don't show anything obvious.

The bad news is that the x-rays don't show anything obvious.

The so-so news is that if we could send the x-rays to OFA today, his hips would probably be rated as Fair. He's got good balls on each femur, and everything looks nice and smooth, but his acetabulum are a bit shallow.

Right now, we will continue with the carprofen and institute even stricter crate rest, and if he's not better in a couple of weeks, I'll have to decide just how far I want to chase things down as far as diagnostics go. He's got insurance, but I went with a $1000 deductible, and with today's bill, we are only around $350 or so...

A friend of mine suggested finding a chiropractor. She has her dogs (Dobermans that compete in conformation and performance) done on a pretty regular basis. I might look into it if he doesn't get better.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

This is probably considered an old school suggestion, but when our Airedale had "pano", her vet said to take her off puppy food and put her on an all stages dog food. He said that studies were inconclusive however there was some thoughts that "pano" was correlated in some way with too much supplemented proteins in the food. Prior to being diagnosed our 'dale limped on alternating limbs (all four).She was put on an anti-inflammatory and we stopped her puppy food. We also quit giving her a daily vitamin. She was about 7 months old. By the end of six weeks all her limping had ceased. She never had any more symptoms.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

It's more the calcium to phosphorous ratio than protein levels. Leo was raised on adult food from the time she was four months old, and Simon's been on an all life stages food the past five months. Also, if he had pano, it should have shown up on the x-rays. Panosteitis - Mar Vista Animal Medical Center


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## Nana06 (Oct 18, 2021)

Thanks @Charmed! I was totally unaware that was a thing, I thought it was super important for puppies to be on puppy food. I will research this.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Nana06 said:


> Thanks @Charmed! I was totally unaware that was a thing, I thought it was super important for puppies to be on puppy food. I will research this.


You're right. It is super important. "All Stages" food must meet the criteria for all stages, including puppies. 😁


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## Nana06 (Oct 18, 2021)

94Magna_Tom said:


> You're right. It is super important. "All Stages" food must meet the criteria for all stages, including puppies. 😁


yes that’s what I just read! Makes more sense thank you 😅


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

TeamHellhound said:


> It's more the calcium to phosphorous ratio than protein levels. Leo was raised on adult food from the time she was four months old, and Simon's been on an all life stages food the past five months. Also, if he had pano, it should have shown up on the x-rays. Panosteitis - Mar Vista Animal Medical Center


Thanks for clarifying. It's been more than a decade...


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