# UKC shows, show coats and other general questions



## outwest

[edited and moved this post to the show thread- SORRY!]


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## whitepoodles

Outwest:

CAVON is a wealth of information if you need to know and find out about UKC shows. Several others on the forum show UKC.


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## outwest

Thanks whitepoodles. Maybe they will see my post. Your dogs are gorgeous, by the way! Bonnie couldn't compete with them as she will likely be in the 22/23 inch tall range. I heard that UKC is more forgiving of size and holds to the 'over 15 inches' rather than 'over 15 inches, but forget it if you aren't over 23"'. 

[removed original post and moved it to the show thread- sorry]


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## outwest

[I originally posted this in poodle talk and then saw there was a thread about showing, so moved it here]

I am thinking it would be fun to try a UKC show with my puppy. There seems to be a lot of UKC shows near me. Bonnie is just 4 months old, but I know people take puppies to them. I used to do AKC shows with my boxers 20 years ago. I am not in the least interested in renewing that. At that time, it was all about having a professional handler ($$), connections and the like. I just don't have it in me to start up that merry go round again. I want to do it for fun and to meet other doggie people. 

I am not a groomer and when I tried, I was lousy at it. I took my last poodle once a month to a terrific groomer. She is now my puppies groomer. I never considered shows with her because she was not a particularly good looking poodle, but a sweet heart. This puppy, to me, is gorgeous in comparison. I would be willing to get a 'before show' groom from her if needed. 

Here are my questions about UKC shows:

Do you have to do the continental cuts in UKC? I don't think I want to deal with those cuts! I am willing to brush her a lot and have a nice lengthy cut, but not one where you have to keep them in rubber bands when they aren't showing. 

Do most people show their own dogs? I want to do it myself for FUN, not glory, but am not sure if I would be able to if everyone else has a professional handler.

My puppy is a cream. Is it impossible to win if they are not black and ice white, like in the AKC? 

I am hoping UKC shows are more relaxed and accepting of a regular person like me. I don't think I want to do agility, but maybe there are other preformance things to do. Is it all agility?

What happened in the last 20 years while I have been away from the show scene to make the UKC shows become so popular now?

My puppy is a pretty girl. The breeder talked to me about considering UKC shows with her or agility since she has a mostly preformance Canadian/European line on one side and a conformation/show line on the other. Her sire is a UKC grand champion. I know that a UKC grand champion is not on par with an AKC Grand Champion, but still, he is gorgeous. Her dam had a solid, calm personality with high intelligence. She was a very pretty girl, but not a complete stunner like my puppies papa. 

When I got Bonnie, I was not at all thinking of doing any showing. I was planning on spaying her at 6 months old. Now she is 4 months old and just keeps getting prettier and prettier. Her movement looks outstanding to me, she has a light footed driving movement that my other standard NEVER had and she is still growing into herself. [I can't believe I have this beautiful puppy!! It is so cool!]

Thanks for your thoughts and reading this lengthy post. I guess I am nervous thinking about it, can you tell? LOL


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## CharismaticMillie

From what I understand, plenty of bitches finish AKC that are around 23 inches tall...Dogs tend to be a bit larger, though. I know several finished AKC Ch. bitches that are in the 22-23 inch tall range...


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## whitepoodles

outwest said:


> Thanks whitepoodles. Maybe they will see my post. Your dogs are gorgeous, by the way! Bonnie couldn't compete with them as she will likely be in the 22/23 inch tall range. I heard that UKC is more forgiving of size and holds to the 'over 15 inches' rather than 'over 15 inches, but forget it if you aren't over 23"'. [removed original post and moved it to the show thread- sorry]



Outwest, I really dont know much about UKC, but if you contact CAVON who is a member of this forum, I know for a fact she competes UKC and will be able much more than I can to give you the information you need.

She is a lovely lady and very knowledgeable.

BTW, are you going to compete with a mini or a standard.. If it is a standard there is absolutely NO worry that your bitch is 22-23 inches from the shoulder. Most bitches are and I do quite like them this size. I do not like standard poodles that look like ponies. , especially bitches.. so I would not worry about your bitch being 22-23 inches from withers.

Thank you so kindly for your nice comments about my dogs.


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## outwest

Oh, I thought the females were bigger, too. See how naive I am.  Bonnie's sire was 22.5 inches and that is considered pretty small. Her dam was bigger than he was, but they both were smaller than my last standard (she was about 24/25). Bonnie was bigger than several of her littermates. Right now she is about 18 inches tall and 18 weeks old (4.5 months), which I thought was small compared to many of the puppies on this poodle group. 

I will try to find CAVON and send her a pm. Thanks for the tip.


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## whitepoodles

Outwest:

As long as your female is not under 15 inches at the shoulder, she can according to CKC/AKC and UKC rules compete in the ring with the rest of the standards. 

I have never heard of a standard being less than 15 inches from the shoulder, unless one breeds minis to standards, it can be although ???? I dont believe in this practice, but it is done from what I know.

I would much prefer a 22-24 inches from the shoulder for a female than a female towering over 24-25.. That is not the size I like to see in females in the ring. Males are different. Many a times they are taller than females.

Cavon's name is Crystal Avon. She just showed her beautiful red poodle at a UKC show, ( I think she purchased him from Bijou) and went BIS and RBIS (Best In Show & Reserve BIS) this past weekend.

LOL and you are not naiive. You just were not aware...we all started somewhere .


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## cavon

Hi Outwest!! First of all, Whitpoodles is very kind to say I am very knowledgeable!! 

I have shown my altered multi-colored boy in the UKC and after I finish this post I will be posting some news of my own!!

to answer your questions:

You do not have to show your poodle in a CC. I show Finnegan in a modified sporting clip. No wiggies, hairspray, dye or any other enhancing substance may be used. If they are used and the judge realizes it, you will be excused from the ring. So even spoos that are in the CC are not as extreme as some of the ones you see in the AKC or CKC. The topknots do not stand straight up in the air!

Here is a link to the breed standard from the UKC site

United Kennel Club: Standard Poodle (Revised July 1, 2009)

In the UKC, the dog must be shown by the owner or breeder ONLY. Professional handlers are not allowed and I have heard of dogs being stripped of titles when it was found out that a professional handler was used.

My boy is an altered red with a white patch on his chest and he has done very well! The UKC is the only kennel club that has accepted multi-colored poodles in competition. They are shown separately from the solid poodles and the winners of each will meet at the group level. Finnegan has placed higher than a solid and lower than a solid, so I would say it is a fair playing field - if I am not being a biased mom, that is! LOL! I have seen red, brown, black and white poodles do well in the UKC ring, so I see no reason that your cream pup wouldn't do well also.

I have only ever shown in the UKC, so for me to compare it to the AKC or CKC is a bit difficult. I have been to the CKC Canadian National show with some friends who were showing Keeshonds and PWD's and from the atmosphere, I would say that the UKC shows are much more relaxed.

I have had a wonderful time at the shows I have participated in and made quite a few friends along the way. 

Regarding performance events, the UKC has a plethera of them. Of course there is agility - Finnegan and I have just started a class for that and hope to compete next summer. There is classic obedience, rally obedience, lure coursing, weight pulling, dock jumping - or there will be soon - you name it. Using the link I provided above, you will be able to search around the site and find out all about the titles offered. the UKC also has what is called a total dog award - fantastic rosette - for dogs that place in conformation and a performance event at the same show. We would have earned one with a BIS alter win and a 2nd place rally finish, but right now, this award is only available to intact dogs. Boo. Since we brought home 20 ribbons , a silver plate, a crystal candy dish and a HUGE dog bed that weekend, I didn't think it would be right for me to kick up too much of a fuss over not being eligible for a total dog award!! LOL!!!

When I got Finnegan, I had no intention of showing him either; however, as he grew up he was quite large for a red - he is about 26 inches and weighs 63 lbs - and he is a beautiful color. My breeder convinced me to bring him to a show and he loved it and so did I. I always liked to watch dog shows and thought it would be a fun thing to do. I never imagined I would own a "show dog" but apparently I do!! LOL!! Both Finnegan and I are having the time of our lives!!


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## tintlet

outwest said:


> [I originally posted this in poodle talk and then saw there was a thread about showing, so moved it here]
> 
> I will try to answer some of your questions...look for ****
> 
> 
> Here are my questions about UKC shows:
> 
> Do you have to do the continental cuts in UKC? I don't think I want to deal with those cuts! I am willing to brush her a lot and have a nice lengthy cut, but not one where you have to keep them in rubber bands when they aren't showing.
> 
> ****The most common trim is a sporting clip or a short continental. Tops can be banded or scissored. Its hard to make an AKC length coat look good in UKC
> 
> Do most people show their own dogs? I want to do it myself for FUN, not glory, but am not sure if I would be able to if everyone else has a professional handler.
> 
> **** NO Pro handlers in UKC, unless they own the dog. Normally owner do all the handling, but at times we need xtra help. Then ask another exhibitor or a Jr Handler.
> 
> My puppy is a cream. Is it impossible to win if they are not black and ice white, like in the AKC?
> 
> **** All colors are accepted. make sure the dog is clean. Creams sometimes look like they have pee stains
> 
> I am hoping UKC shows are more relaxed and accepting of a regular person like me. I don't think I want to do agility, but maybe there are other preformance things to do. Is it all agility?
> 
> **** UKC has many performance events. Generally, UKC performance is harder than AKC. But most UKC events are geared for all breeds
> 
> What happened in the last 20 years while I have been away from the show scene to make the UKC shows become so popular now?
> 
> **** UKC originally was working/hunting dogs. Conformations shows were few. I started showing UKC to support the acceptance of Multicolor poodles.
> 
> My puppy is a pretty girl. The breeder talked to me about considering UKC shows with her or agility since she has a mostly preformance Canadian/European line on one side and a conformation/show line on the other. Her sire is a UKC grand champion. I know that a UKC grand champion is not on par with an AKC Grand Champion, but still, he is gorgeous. Her dam had a solid, calm personality with high intelligence. She was a very pretty girl, but not a complete stunner like my puppies papa.
> 
> **** I have seen AKC CH's not be able to get a UKC title ;-)
> 
> When I got Bonnie, I was not at all thinking of doing any showing. I was planning on spaying her at 6 months old. Now she is 4 months old and just keeps getting prettier and prettier. Her movement looks outstanding to me, she has a light footed driving movement that my other standard NEVER had and she is still growing into herself. [I can't believe I have this beautiful puppy!! It is so cool!]
> 
> **** if you decide to spay, you can still show in UKC Altered. But I would go have fun right now.
> 
> 
> 
> you can see our UKC dogs/Clips on our Tintlet webpage.


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## outwest

Whitepoodles, I didn't say a standard under 15 inches, that would be a miniature. I said a standard in the 22/23 inch range. 

Wow. You don't have to do the continental clip, no professional handlers, you can get them altered and still show (!), they accept all colors and have many preformance titles. It sounds pretty fun to me! 

So far, Bonnie doesn't look like she has pee stains. I didn't think of that. My last poodle was white and she didn't look like she had stains, either. Bonnie is getting lighter as she gets older, so maybe she will end up pretty light (or maybe not?). Right now she is the color of a grocery bag! 

Thank you guys. It sounds like something I could handle. I think I will go to the next UKC show and scope it out more. Thank you for the links and the answers! Fun.


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## whitepoodles

[*QUOTE=outwest;170196]Whitepoodles, I didn't say a standard under 15 inches, that would be a miniature. I said a standard in the 22/23 inch range.* 

Oops, sorry my misunderstanding..


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## cliffdweller

tintlet said:


> outwest said:
> 
> 
> 
> you can see our UKC dogs/Clips on our Tintlet webpage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoyed your Gallery very much !
Click to expand...


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## outwest

I, too, looked at your gallery, Tintlet. Those cuts are beautiful to me. I like them much better than the full AKC clips as they look more natural, but still stylish.

I have another month to decide whether to show her for fun or not. I guess I need to evaluate her at 6 months, right? The main issues I see are her tail curls a little at the end (she holds it straight up most of the time, but not in these pics of course LOL) and she is 19 inches at 5 months old, so a bit small. Her legs do not look as long as some poodles, but her dam was from a preformance line so I believe she took after the slightly heftier frame and has a nice solid chest and rear legs, although she is so pretty when she moves- very light looking then. She has excellent control of her body (can catch a frisbee now!). She is square when I measure her out. She is also a cream, but when she is clean (which is hard to do!) she is a pretty color. I will decide in a month. I am going to a UKC show in a few weeks to check it out and look at the dogs, too.

When I have her groomed next week I am asking them not to trim her topknot down this time or her neck hair, right?:


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## CharismaticMillie

I'd give it a shot - why not?!  She has nice rear angulation and bend of stifle. I'd like to see her tail set higher. She also needs improved head and tail carriage, IMO, though that can be trained. From what I can tell from these unstacked photos, her feet look good (not flat). She looks to have good depth of chest. I can't tell what her front is like. 

I don't know anything about UKC showing, but depending what trim you want to show her in, you may or may not want to have her topknot trimmed.


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## outwest

She has really nice feet. Her chest is solid and there is space in between her front legs with muscle there. The breeder told me she chose the dam because of her muscled, deep front end (she has Eastern European poodles in her line). She said it helped them not to bloat if their chest wasn't too narrow?? Her chest comes down to her elbow and from the top she doesn't look barrel chested. Her front legs are straight, but look a little short to me, but not too wide set. She measures perfectly square, though, which is interesting. 

I was glad she was running around checking everybody out at the dog park! A few more weeks of confidence building and I think she will carry herself more confidently, too. 

Anyway, it is fun to think about doing it. No poodle is perfect and I am glad to have the physical prowess she displays, which may make her more on the athletic rather than the showy side. She can stand on her hind legs stock still. Maybe because she has a good back or maybe because of strong hind end? 

When she is 6 months, I will try to take pictures of her stacked properly. I will also have husband take a video of her trotting around. When she is particularly happy she holds her head and tail straight up and pops around like a jumping bean- so cute- so I know she can physically do that, but how do you get them to do it all the time? I guess you can't- they either do or they don't.

We start puppy classes this weekend. I am hoping they can help me get her to hold still so a stranger can feel all over her.  Right now she just wants to give them a delicate kiss when they bend down.

She is an interesting poodle conformation wise. She has some great strengths that are obvious to me and some obvious weaknesses, too. Her personality is superb, and that is the most important thing to me. Today she barked at the mailman! WHoo Hoo- she will be a watch dog, yay.


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## MyDogElwyn

I appreciate this thread - I am a total newbie to showing poodles. I really would like to try out UKC but am finding myself really "out of my element" - its so different! I would love to show but dont even know where to start! 

LOVE the fact that it is so owner-handler friendly, the grooming options, etc. Sounds like a great way to get into showing! 

I have also heard you cannot use bait? What do you do?!


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## Keithsomething

MyDogElwyn the best way to start showing AKC or UKC is to find a breeder in your area that shows in it and contact them! In most cases breeders are more than happy to help out novices and lend their knowledge to them!


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## MyDogElwyn

Keithsomething said:


> MyDogElwyn the best way to start showing AKC or UKC is to find a breeder in your area that shows in it and contact them! In most cases breeders are more than happy to help out novices and lend their knowledge to them!


 Thanks! 

I have some great mentors for AKC, but was thinking maybe UKC would be fun for me to get some ring mileage.


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## tintlet

Don't be afraid of showing UKC. It really is not that scary 

They will post on the judges board if you can use bait or not. Just do NOT drop or throw it, etc. (that will get you excused). Most Judges do allow bait

Just go and have fun!!


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## MyDogElwyn

tintlet said:


> Don't be afraid of showing UKC. It really is not that scary
> 
> They will post on the judges board if you can use bait or not. Just do NOT drop or throw it, etc. (that will get you excused). Most Judges do allow bait
> 
> Just go and have fun!!


I might! There are some shows in Sept (UKC) I might go to...one of my mentors - who I just love - said to me the other day "Just do it!" 

Maybe I just need to grow some pompoms and give it a try!


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## tintlet

yes..grow "those"..and get out there and show..lol


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