# Re-home Roger???!!



## forthwife (Dec 5, 2010)

*Sigh* I do not know what to do. I adopted Roger (you can read all my last posts) in December he was 9 months old at the time. I know little about his history other than he was only owned by his prior family for 2 months and came from a breeder at the time they got him. He's been in training and is doing very, VERY well learning commands but is completely uninterested in people other than me. This includes my family. He tolerates my husband and children but does not like or care for them. My girls love him, feed him, brush him and he still has no regard for them. He is not agressive, but just generally unfriendly. He has (once) growled, barked and jumped at my 84 year old neighbor but has since been around her and was fine as long as she did not attempt to touch him. *sigh again* We've been to a vet and had his thyroid check and are meeting with a behaviorist early next week. The behaviorist and I have extensively talked on the phone and she has said he may simply be a one woman dog. So, where does that leave Roger in my family equation? I'd love thoughts and suggestions. I don't want to "abandon" this poor dog, but I just wonder if he wouldn't be happier in a different family situation. 

Thanks.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

The only thing I have to offer you is my support. I think it's true enough that some dogs are "one person" creatures. The desired outcome here is for your family_ and_ Roger to be as happy as possible. I salute you for trying to get him to bond with your family, and for seeking the services of a behaviorist. DO NOT FEEL GUILTY if re-homing turns out to be the best path. I know you'll fairly represent his personality to potential new owners and will make the right decision when the time comes. It's heartbreaking, I realize, but not all relationships, human or animal, go the distance. I've been wondering how things were going for you and I'm glad you resurfaced. Wish the best for all.


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## forthwife (Dec 5, 2010)

If we do have to rehome him, how does one even do that? What is the best way?


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## Beach girl (Aug 5, 2010)

Good advice. 

So Roger has been in your family two or three months now? Are you almost always the one to train him, walk him and feed him? You mentioned that your girls feed him; how often do they do it versus you? 

Roger is barely one year old now, is that right? And he's been in three homes so far - the breeder, the first owner, and you? He might be having a confusing time trying to bond. 

You might try "the circle game" with him where you, your husband, and your girls sit or stand in a circle, with Roger in the middle, and take turns calling him and giving him treats.

It's possible that he is by nature just a one-woman dog, or he could be bonding more intensely with you because you are mostly the one giving him directions (training), food, care, interactions, etc. 

I'll be interested in hearing what the behaviorist has to say.


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## forthwife (Dec 5, 2010)

My daughters are the exclusive feeders of Roger. My oldest daughter races out of bed each morning to take him out, feed and do his morning training (she is 8). His afternoon feeding is done my my 6 year old after school. She will also do training at this time. I occasionally feed him dinner, but that too is generally done by my girls. 

I tend to walk him, but my girls are always with me when we walk him. 

As far as fetch and back yard play goes, that is exclusively done by me becase he is still unpredictable and jumpy. I worry he'll knock one of my girls into next week if he gets too excited. (I too have to becareful because I am pregnant and can't risk getting bowled over by him!)


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

Beach girl said:


> Good advice.
> 
> So Roger has been in your family two or three months now? Are you almost always the one to train him, walk him and feed him? You mentioned that your girls feed him; how often do they do it versus you?
> 
> Roger is barely one year old now, is that right? And he's been in three homes so far - the breeder, the first owner, and you? He might be having a confusing time trying to bond.


I agree with Beachgirl--if you can, you might want to give him a little more time to settle in. Also, he is still very young...standard boys are adolescents mentally until they are two or more. 

I would go through a poodle rescue if you decide to rehome him. The following link will take you to various poodle resources in Florida. Breed clubs (with rescue contacts) are in the left column and breed rescue organization are in the right. 

Affiliate Clubs, PCA Member Breeders and Poodle Rescue Contacts


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

forthwife said:


> If we do have to rehome him, how does one even do that? What is the best way?


I would go online to the Poodle Club of America and check to see if your state poodle club has a rescue group and contact them. 

*Beach girl* gave you great suggestions, though I realize you've already tried to do so much. The thought of Roger bouncing from home to home weighs on my heart, I can only imagine how it feels for you. I deliberated about that before replying to you initially. I still hold out hope things can work out for him with your family. Fingers crossed! I'll be checking to see what the behaviorist has to offer, it says a lot about you that you sought one out to help. This must be a disappointing and difficult thing for you, I'm truly sorry about that. Hoping for a happy ending here and that you're doing well with your pregnancy (extra stress/worry isn't good!).


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

i think a lot of dogs choose 'their person' and that's ok- as long as the entire family stays involved with him the dog will still learn to respect and enjoy the company of the rest of the family. 


My only suggestion is TIME TIME TIME. dogs who get bounced around- it takes TIME they don't quite trust it. Sometimes they come in and play perfect for a while, and then start to have behavior issues. but give it time- expect a good 6 months of before making any decisions. It can take up to a year for a dog to settle in and find it's place when it's rehomed (I Do a lot of rescue work fostering and helping with behavior issues with dogs we've adopted out). So give him TIME before making any decisions.


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## Lilah+Jasper (May 13, 2010)

neVar is spot on. 

My Jazzi is just now starting to settle in and really feel at home and it only took 10 months!!! At age 14 months, we were his third home. He seemed detached and uninterested in almost everything as a general rule. I would see glimpses of the real Jazz and this gave me hope. I knew that I just had to garner his trust and let him know that he is here to stay. Just recently he has started to show his poodley happiness on a regular basis. He really loves balls and it makes me so happy to see him pounce on one. Jasper's personality is starting to shine  Prior to meeting him, my family discussed that it could take up to a year for him to become adjusted so we were ready for the challenge.

Now, my black spoo Sasha (rip sweet girl) was *my* dog. It was very evident that she was ok with the rest of my family but I was her person. She would interact and play with my daughter if Gabby initiated it. Sasha never sought out attention from anyone but me. She would just seem uninterested and aloof. It was just a fact that we all accepted.

I wish you well in whatever you decide to do...


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

As beachgirl and others have said, he may need more time to adjust. He has been through quite a lot in his young life and must be quite confused.

My Mitch had a similar start in life. He was in three homes by his first birthday through no fault of his own. When I got him at age two, he was happy and I LOVED him, but he didn't really give much back. It took at least 6 months before he really started to come out of his shell and treat us and the house like it was his very own. 

What helped Mitchell and I bond was NILIF - Nothing In Life Is Free. He had to sit before everything and anything. You could easily switch in a sit command for a "watch me" or "look" command, so that Roger has to acknowledge your daughters before he gets his food, walks, toys, treats, etc. 

I know it must be really hard, and perhaps he is just a one person dog. I know a few poodles like that. Do what is best for you and your family, and if it doesn't work out, I would contact a poodle rescue or even contact a local breeder to see if maybe someone is looking for an adult poodle.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

I would give it more time. At least six months from the time you brought him home. Also, Roger is an adolescent and teenage dogs can be notoriously "off"--aloof, dsitracted, etc. From 9 months to about 13 months my mini was not quite himself. He was more aloof with me than he was before and after that time.


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## Beach girl (Aug 5, 2010)

FWIW - when I take Casey to his obedience class, there are 7 other owner/dog pairs there. One dog he seems to like quite well (a cocker spaniel). He will always go over to her and give her a sniff when we both arrive a few minutes before class starts. He doesn't pay much attention to the cocker's owner.

There is another woman with a Visla, I think. He seems to like her, will go to sniff her hand, but ignores her dog.

There are a couple of golden retrievers there who LOVE me, who come up and lean against me and look up at me like I am the bestest person in the whole wide world. And then they'll wander over to someone else and look at THAT person like they are the bestest person in the whole wide world.

Casey never does that to anyone he doesn't know; he barely shows that much affection to us (as in the leaning over and looking adoringly part).

My point: poodles just aren't golden retrievers. They don't have the wiring to love everyone and everything and every dog unconditionally. They just don't; they pick and choose. We can modify that behaviour and encourage more bonding with our family members. But the poodle is just more reserved by nature. Once the bonds are formed, they are strong (IMHO). But it might take a while, and the small steps toward bonding we might not even recognize as they happen.

So - it's as much a function as what you want from Roger as what Roger is. As he goes through adolescence, as others have said, he will change and mature. If you can stick with it, you and your family members will probably be rewarded for it.

But he might never become a lovey-dovey, love everyone equally dog. Can you accept that in him?


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## FozziesMom (Jun 23, 2010)

I also want to encourage you to hang in there. I thought I would lose my mind when Fozzie was a year old and resource guarding like a nut. As he ages, his other behaviors are reducing and he is becoming calmer and more loving. We still have setbacks but they are far fewer and less severe. Given Roger's multiple homes, and assuming no danger to you and your family, I'd really give it til he was a full 18 months to 2 years and see where you are at. He may surprise you . Just when I was about ready to give up on Fozzie, he changed again. That amazed me, how much they change and evolve once they are physically fully grown. 

my heart goes out to you.....


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## forthwife (Dec 5, 2010)

Thank you all for the supporting words and suggestions. I don't want to give up on sweet Roger, he really is a good dog. I guess I just feel the pull of maybe he'd have a better life elsewhere because my 3 year old is just terrorified of him (he tends to chase her) or she _FEELS_ she is being chased (even if she is not). Because of that he does not have full roam of the house and spends most his time in the long hallway that is parallel to the family room/kitchen. He is able to see us and isn't technically alone, but he's not on the floor at our feet. Then again, I guess this isn't really different than most dogs who's owners work. Maybe it's a luxury that I'm home all day and am looking at it the wrong way. *sigh*


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

He's not showing agression which is great. 

Guess what- your 3 year old won't be 3 forever.  and Roger won't be this age forever either. which will stop the chasing. when we got our second aussie i was constantly yelling at my SON DO NOT RUN IN THE HOUSE THE DOG WILL TACKLE YOU! he was 5. now? now my son at 7 takes care of the entire herd if he has his way. 

Roger has people who love him. No one's beating him up. Give it time- HE won't be happy someplace else. There are times that yes tht would be so. but sure he's not getting full roam of the house RIGHT NOW- but that's not FOREVER> and my gosh he could have it MUCH MUCH worse. 

Now agression- another dog who after 6 months still wants to kill him non stop (why i had to rehome my bernie i rescued) those are good reasons to say "he's not happy" but right now? no not at all. my dogs are in a kennel during the day (i am so not taking 4-6 dogs to work with me daily) no different. He gets your love and attention during th eday and more so when the kids are asleep he's got a kid who wants to feed him. THIs will SOOOOO pass. DO NOT worry.


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## FozziesMom (Jun 23, 2010)

I know first hand the sadness of seeing your dog crated or tethered or restrained because they can't behave. This is a normal feeling. It is not bad for the dog to be kept out of trouble and in fact you are doing Roger AND your 3 year old a favor by teaching them BOTH how to interact, and preventing them from making negative associations with each other. 

As neVar said, this will not last forever. I started keeping fozzie more and more off leash about 15 months and each day he gets a little bit more time off as i trust him more. Now he's mostly off leash in the house (with doors to certain rooms closed, and other temptations like garbage cans removed) unless I need him to settle. After about 10 mins of that, he comes off leash again and seems to understand: "Me being crazy=this restraint thing I'm not fond of". 

I used to feel so guilty and think I was a bad mom--how can this be a good life for my dear dog. So please, hang in there....it WILL get better.

(maybe we should do a series of "it Will get better" videos for dog owners...LOL)


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## Purley (May 21, 2010)

I felt exactly the same about Lucy. Every time she was shut in the crate because we couldn't watch her - I felt guilty. So I would let her out of the crate and let her have freedom and then she peed or pooped in the house and it would annoy me. It took me a long while to realize that while it looked like she was being punished, being in the crate was better than the way I got frustrated with her when the messed in the house.


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

Give him more time. 

My dogs come from other families except Dima and they all needed at least 6 months to get into our life completely. 
At first they where all just stuck to me not really sure of things but as time went on they all relaxed and get along with everyone now.

I think when you re home a dog the dog needs at least 6 months just to get his head around everything that is happening.


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## first poodle (Jan 12, 2010)

I'd be giving Roger more time too! Our Ginger was rehomed twice before we got her at 2 yrs of age. My husband does the morning feed b/c he's up so early and dogs want fed. For the first 4 months we actually had to put Ginger's leash on her to get her to go from the bedroom where I was to the kitchen where the food was and she LOVES to eat! Now after living with us for just over a year I would safely say she is as much if not more attached to my husband. He is the primary walker and feeder and I am the primary playmate. The other people who are routine in our lives like grown children - Ginger has no bond with but then she doesn't live with them day in and day out! I've heard several people call poodles velcro dogs and they are but they just take longer to decide who to attach themselves to. But that dedication is something else, there's nothing fickle about Ginger's loyalties. It will come, Roger can't help but fall for 2 girls that want to spend so much time with him, they'll be his playmates for life! He's just making sure they'll be there forever before he gives them his heart!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I tend to agree that if the problems are no more serious than those you describe, and you truly like him, it would be sensible to give him more time. He is still a very young dog, and may be needing to make up for a considerable lack of socialisation in his previous homes. There is no guarantee that the next home would be better for him than yours - think of all the positives - you care for him well, you train him appropriately, you worry about what is best for him, and you give him love. It is still very early days for him to trust the whole family, especially if he had reason to trust in the past. Only two months in his first home argues that his first family had little real interest in him.

What I would definitely do is address the issues with your three year old. It sounds to me as if the chasing may have become reinforcing for both the child and the dog - an attention getter on both sides. Screaming, running children and over-excited dogs are not a good mixture. I would start with the child, and seek her help in teaching Roger how to be polite - I am sure she already understands the need to say Please and Thank you, and teaching Roger to Sit politely as a way of minding his Ps and Qs would stop him bouncing her. Keep the reward treats in a pot within her reach, but not on her!

I taught visiting children that sitting down on the ground was the best way to encourage pups to play nicely. This was partly because mine are tiny, and I didn't want small children picking them up and possibly dropping them, but also helps to stop things getting too heated.


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## forthwife (Dec 5, 2010)

Regarding the dog and my children. He doesn't mind them nearly as well as he does me. This is mainly why I have them feed him. Before he eats, they give him several rounds of commands so that he knows they are his BOSS. Is there more I can be doing?


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

forthwife- truthfully? I think your right on the ball. 


first off i think it's VERY RARE for most dogs to pay attention and respect the kids as much as they do the adults. It's just reality- KIDS are not adults  

I do know lots of folks who have had good luck having one of the older kids handle the dog in obedience class. it gives a time for the dog and kid to bond plus helps establish some commands between the two of them. but that's the only thing i'd suggest adding in i think your doing it EXACTLY how i'd recommend (From your description) 

just give it TIME  (NOW my dogs don't respect my kids at all- they know the kids are total push overs *L* MY aussie girl would NEVER steal food from me (We had a discussion about that this fall  ) But the kids? OOH fair game. My job? to make sure that i don't set the kids up for the dogs to steal their food.


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

Forthwife, I don't think you should be feeling guilty--it sounds like you are doing an awesome job. As for the problem of chasing the 3-y-o, have you thought about trying tethering him to you as an alternative to gating him off? That way he's more integrated, but can't chase. 

Depending on how messy his food his, you have the kids actually hand feed him his dinner, and make him work for all or part of it. No kidding...it is part of the NILIF program. 

Also, it isn't *all* about being the boss--have you found safe ways for your kids to play with Roger (e.g., fetch) without anybody going over the top? Playing is another great way to bond with a dog--agility people swear by it. It can also be as simple as having Roger do "puppy pushups" (rotations of sit-down-stand-spin-shake-whatever) for yummy treats. Praise is also key--praise him effusively in a high squeaky voice and with baby talk. 



forthwife said:


> Regarding the dog and my children. He doesn't mind them nearly as well as he does me. This is mainly why I have them feed him. Before he eats, they give him several rounds of commands so that he knows they are his BOSS. Is there more I can be doing?


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## forthwife (Dec 5, 2010)

Feralpudel said:


> Forthwife, I don't think you should be feeling guilty--it sounds like you are doing an awesome job. As for the problem of chasing the 3-y-o, have you thought about trying tethering him to you as an alternative to gating him off? That way he's more integrated, but can't chase.
> 
> Depending on how messy his food his, you have the kids actually hand feed him his dinner, and make him work for all or part of it. No kidding...it is part of the NILIF program.
> 
> Also, it isn't *all* about being the boss--have you found safe ways for your kids to play with Roger (e.g., fetch) without anybody going over the top? Playing is another great way to bond with a dog--agility people swear by it. It can also be as simple as having Roger do "puppy pushups" (rotations of sit-down-stand-spin-shake-whatever) for yummy treats. Praise is also key--praise him effusively in a high squeaky voice and with baby talk.


I have tethered him to me in the past, however I'm 13 weeks pregnant and STILL non-stop vomiting so I have NO energy to literally be tied to my dog.  Hopefully I'll start feeling better soon. 

Also, fetch, he's a crazy boy for fetch and will knock my kids into next week. I have to be right there to keep an eye on all. 

SPEAKING OF FETCH, how on earth do you sucessfully teach your dog to actually bring the toy back to you rather than near you then running off to chew it?


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## CelticKitti (Jul 1, 2010)

Here are the two ways I taught my guys to fetch. When you throw the toy turn and "run" in the other direction. Make coming back to you super fun. Or if you have a long hallway block him in the hallway and throw the toy. He can't get past you so he has to bring it back. Eventually he'll learn if he brings it back he gets to fetch it again. 

Kodi is a fetching machine. I used to sit on the couch bounce the ball down the stairs while I studied. He'd put the ball on the couch next to my hand so I'd throw it again. He loves to fetch!


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## Beach girl (Aug 5, 2010)

Also, a tiny piece of hot dog or bit of string cheese as a reward for bringing you the toy works miracles.

I'd like to believe my dog loves me for my own sweet self. However, the difference in his obedience between me alone vs. me with bits of hot dog handy is quite eye-opening. ;-)


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Also chiming in with a suggestion to give him more time ... he's probably still not feeling entirely secure. What you are seeing now is likely not the "final" Roger :smile:.

I wouldn't worry so much about the dog seeing the kids as boss. Dogs (and poodles in particular) will work happily if it's fun; they don't need a heavy hand. And bits of hot dog don't hurt :smile:. 

Find games that the kids can play with Roger that are safe for all ... hide and seek can be fun, especially with squealing little girls. Or teach him to "find it" ... also a great fun engaging game. These are games that you and the kids can all play together with Roger, which will help transfer some of his 'safe' feelings from you to the kids.


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

forthwife said:


> Also, fetch, he's a crazy boy for fetch and will knock my kids into next week. I have to be right there to keep an eye on all.
> 
> SPEAKING OF FETCH, how on earth do you sucessfully teach your dog to actually bring the toy back to you rather than near you then running off to chew it?


I have also used treats for prompt retrieve to hand. Throw the ball, nice retrieve, treat, throw the ball...I would add a nice sit and wait for the next throw, which will lead to more controlled behavior. You have to work a little for that self control/contained energy, but it is beautiful to see. 

You can also have multiple toys. Dog doesn't come right back with one, throw the other one. 

I'm sorry you're feeling so bad with the pregnancy...that doesn't sound fun at all!


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

Sounds like you are doing the right things. Have you considered that in his first home there were kids who were mean to him? or that only the woman of the house bothered with him? that might be whats going on. He may feel that you are his 'mommy' and the only one who will protect him - so after time when he sees that everyone else still 'loves him' and plays with him, feeds him etc - he will start to trust them too. He probably only trusts you right now - but you need to be firm when he growls at anyone - I had to get a personal trainer for Ginger for that reason - and it really helped. she had fear agression. Now I am Ginger's "person" but she loves everyone else in the family too - but in the beginning it wasnt so. So keep on keeping on! and take the advice on this forum! good luck!


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

I can't even tell you what happened when the trainer confronted her fear - it was awful! but it worked!


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## forthwife (Dec 5, 2010)

Pamela said:


> I can't even tell you what happened when the trainer confronted her fear - it was awful! but it worked!


What on earth did the trainer do??!!

The prior owner was a college student (woman) living with a roommate. So, my kids are the first Roger has known.


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

Pamela said:


> I can't even tell you what happened when the trainer confronted her fear - it was awful! but it worked!


I hope the trainer didn't force Ginger to face her fear...I feel that slowly acclimatizing the dog to the fear trigger using positive experiences and training is much more effective in the long run and doesn't damage the dog psychologically.


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

well Ginger was growling and snapping at the vet, my daughter and sometimes me - she was a bout 5 months I guess. Anyway the trainer came and everything went really well but she didn't exhibit what I really wanted him to see. So when he was starting to leave, he said goodbye to her and she growled at him and showed her teeth. so what he ws teaching me was to put my hand (or fist so fingers are exposed lol) right next to her mouth and say "out" (which he said was more effective than 'no') and she went for him. so he went to the car and got his gloves and an arm protector and came back and did it again and she was biting him and I can't tell ya - it seemed like forever but it probably wasnt more than a few minutes. He kept his hand there, even with her biting it, until she stopped and submitted. After tha she was fine and any time she would growl at me I would put my hand there and say 'out' and she would stop. Now if I am grooming her feet and she growls and put my hand right in her mouth and tell her =go ahead and bite me lol and she kisses me. lol love that dog! anyway she loved Tony after that and he turned her into the dog I wanted - although she still is a little fear agressive but we are ok. it was a very distressing exercise and I dare say that more modern trainers might use a different approach or Cesar prob would take her to the pschology center.


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

I guess he wasnt confronting her fear just showing her that she was not or did not have to be the leader of the pack.


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

PS he said that the dog feels safer if he/she knows you are a strong pack leader - otherwise they think they have to protect themselves and you and it causes stress and fear. she was never socialized at the breeder either.


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

That's not my style of training because it does not address the "why" part of the fear aggression. "Flooding" (what your trainer did) just stops that behaviour and does not address the actual fear and then the fear can later manifest itself in other behaviours. Cesar Milan does this type of "training" and it might have immediate effects, but it doesn't teach you or the dog how to handle other situation where her fear aggression may arise. I prefer to instil confidence in my dog, not break my dog down.


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

Locket said:


> That's not my style of training because it does not address the "why" part of the fear aggression. "Flooding" (what your trainer did) just stops that behaviour and does not address the actual fear and then the fear can later manifest itself in other behaviours. Cesar Milan does this type of "training" and it might have immediate effects, but it doesn't teach you or the dog how to handle other situation where her fear aggression may arise. I prefer to instil confidence in my dog, not break my dog down.


how would you go about instilling confidence in the dog?


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

could this also be why she is such a barker and won't even stop when i tell her its ok? yesterday the neighnors kid came to sell something and I thought the two of them would have torn him apart (not really but it sounded like it) and I couldnt get them to stop barking even putting them in my room - I couldnt even hear what the kid was saying. so could that be her fear coming out that way? and what can I do to instill confidence in her? Teddy just copies her so that's not good - I think alone I could get him to stop but he looks to what she is doing. I do all the things that you are supposed to do to make them know I am the leader but this is an area where she just thinks she knows better. I appreciate what a watch dog she is but she should obey me and settle down when I tell her its ok.


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

its funny - usually - like if a service man comes I can get the situation under control and if the man isnt afraid, he gives them his hand to smell etc and they are ok - but there is something about these kids - she has always acted like they were the enemy - quiet kids - dont know what it is.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Pamela said:


> I do all the things that you are supposed to do to make them know I am the leader but this is an area where she just thinks she knows better. I appreciate what a watch dog she is but she should obey me and settle down when I tell her its ok.


I would forget about showing who is the leader, and that she should obey you, etc. Dogs don't read those books, or understand the television programmes!

Instead, teach her to do something else when people come to the door - to wait in another room, or to run to her bed, and reward her generously every time. Practice it when there is no one at the door, then get a friend to come and go so that you can practice for real.

Is she reactive to dogs or people when you are out walking? Or fearful of changes in the environment?


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## PoodlePowerBC (Feb 25, 2011)

forthwife said:


> I have tethered him to me in the past, however I'm 13 weeks pregnant and STILL non-stop vomiting so I have NO energy to literally be tied to my dog.  Hopefully I'll start feeling better soon.
> 
> Also, fetch, he's a crazy boy for fetch and will knock my kids into next week. I have to be right there to keep an eye on all.
> 
> SPEAKING OF FETCH, how on earth do you sucessfully teach your dog to actually bring the toy back to you rather than near you then running off to chew it?


This is a site I found while looking for training tips. Totally in context here.Lots of great advise for problems. Good luck
Victoria's Top 10 Dog Training Tips : Videos : Animal Planet


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

fjm said:


> I would forget about showing who is the leader, and that she should obey you, etc. Dogs don't read those books, or understand the television programmes!
> 
> Instead, teach her to do something else when people come to the door - to wait in another room, or to run to her bed, and reward her generously every time. Practice it when there is no one at the door, then get a friend to come and go so that you can practice for real.
> 
> Is she reactive to dogs or people when you are out walking? Or fearful of changes in the environment?


they are both very very good when I walk in town - but on my road if someone walks past they are not so good. I do need to do more training with treats - I have been successful in getting her to stop when someone is going by or the oil man comes and his truck is running outside (he doesnt come in) but I never saw her react the way she does to those particular kids - its really weird - and I have introduced her to them in the past and she has been ok but she does not trust them. I want her to trust me! and I don't think she always does think I know whats best.


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

Oh and she is extremely protective of me - if I am sick she sits by me and puts her face on my leg etc or if I am in bed she puts her face on the bed - oh I love this dog!!!!!


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## forthwife (Dec 5, 2010)

I met with the behaviorist the SPCA recommended and it was a TOTAL waste! She didn't tell me anything I didn't already know (her big suggestion was to have my girls give Roger hot dogs daily) and then said maybe he's not a family dog. *sigh*

I contacted Costal Poodle Rescue and they have a behaviorst they LOVE, LOVE, LOVE and I gave her a call. She's willing to help, but it'll be $125 each weekly visit. Being pregnant, having multiple sclerosis and 3 kids I can safely say I CANNOT afford that (who can!?). 

So, now what.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

forthwife said:


> I met with the behaviorist the SPCA recommended and it was a TOTAL waste! She didn't tell me anything I didn't already know (her big suggestion was to have my girls give Roger hot dogs daily) and then said maybe he's not a family dog. *sigh*
> 
> I contacted Costal Poodle Rescue and they have a behaviorst they LOVE, LOVE, LOVE and I gave her a call. She's willing to help, but it'll be $125 each weekly visit. Being pregnant, having multiple sclerosis and 3 kids I can safely say I CANNOT afford that (who can!?).
> 
> So, now what.


Why not just keep loving him and training him and give him more time to adjust? He seeks your attention and is aloof but not aggressive with the rest of the family? This would not be a dealbreaker for me. In time I bet he will bond more closely with the others, especially when he feels more secure and doesn't think he'll be shipped off to another home like has happened in the past.


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## FozziesMom (Jun 23, 2010)

forthwife said:


> her big suggestion was to have my girls give Roger hot dogs daily) and then said maybe he's not a family dog. *sigh*
> 
> So, now what.


When we were having resource guarding issues with Fozzie, our trainer suggested my boyfriend (who was getting the brunt of the bites and bad behavior) do drop offs of treats 20 times a day, and commit to this for a whole YEAR. Within a month, their relationship had improved dramatically, partially because Fozzie is growing out of the behaviors and becoming more comfortable with us and partially because of the treats and frequent interactions. I also coached him on how to interact with the dog. 

So don't poo-poo that suggestion, there's a reason for it, and it's not an unworkable idea. 

Also, I found that we only need a couple sessions with the trainer and we did a lot of homework on our own; and helped us via email. So you may not need piles of sessions. 

Either way, you are going to have to DECIDE if you want to work with him or not, if not, then you should rehome. Even though we got Fozzie at 7 months, which I thought was early enough, in hindsight we didn't consider how much of an adjustment it must have been for him. A year later we're doing MUCH much better, though still not perfect. 

I am sorry you are ill--possibly this was too much to take on at this point. There's no shame in admitting that and correcting it; but if you can at all stand to work through it, I think you will be rewarded.


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## forthwife (Dec 5, 2010)

We're not re-homing him at this time. I'm just looking for help for his excessive (crippling!) shyness and disinterest in our children. 

The one tip the super expensive behaviorsit gave was that my children should be giving him 20-30 bits of hot dog a day. I guess I hadn't comprehended that he'd need that MUCH bribery to accept an occasional pet or cuddle. 

At least I'm teaching my daugther's that a man's love is totally conditional and based upon him getting what he wants from you. (Sarcasm....kind of!) :aetsch:


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

'Twas ever thus - "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach!"

But think of it more as classic conditioning, rather than bribery - every piece of sausage is another counter in the "children are lovely" side of the scales, against whatever he has built up in the past in the "children are to be avoided" side. Eventually, with enough good stuff on the right side, the balance will swing - or that is the theory, anyway. Poppy actually voluntarily went up to three adults and a child today, without looking as if she was on her way to the scaffold - so it does work, with patience!


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## FozziesMom (Jun 23, 2010)

fjm said:


> 'Twas ever thus - "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach!"


we use conditioning on children to encourage good behavior all the time--it's called "positive reinforcement"--means exactly the same thing. 

But I'm glad you're sticking it out--I empathize more than you know with the frustration!


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## forthwife (Dec 5, 2010)

I just hated the idea of giving up on him, you know? He really is a good dog, truthfully better than many, MANY other dogs I've seen. I'm just overwhelmed with how much more he'll need when combined with a *SUPRISE* pregnancy and feeling morning sick, tired etc etc etc. I just want to make sure I've given him a fair shake in every regard.

On that note, is there a website someplace that lists certified animal behaviorists? Is it standard for it to cost $125 each session?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

In the UK I would start with the APBC - The APBC | Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors - I am not sure if it is called the same in the US. I would also be avoid any behaviourist who did not insist upon a referral from your vet - it is a dangerously unregulated "profession".


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

125 is not unusual. many behavorists have a college education behind them. plus it's aprivate one on one. not like a group class where it's 20 each but there's 8 in the class 

Dogs take work. If you had a puppy you'd be exhausted potty training while being pregnant  

Yes he may never want to sit there and be dressed by young kids. i don't kow many dogs who want that either. and no 30-40 peices of hot dog a day isn't bribing It's about creating GOOD feelings when around those people and developing some trust. 


You'll get there.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

forthwife said:


> We're not re-homing him at this time. I'm just looking for help for his excessive (crippling!) shyness and disinterest in our children.
> 
> The one tip the super expensive behaviorsit gave was that my children should be giving him 20-30 bits of hot dog a day. I guess I hadn't comprehended that he'd need that MUCH bribery to accept an occasional pet or cuddle.
> 
> At least I'm teaching my daugther's that a man's love is totally conditional and based upon him getting what he wants from you. (Sarcasm....kind of!) :aetsch:


It's not bribery. It's an aid to changing how he feels about something. Luckily, dogs are simple creatures, and there is a nice direct route to their feelings. 

There are other things you can do to link the kids up with good things in Roger's mind. Play and games are good, but they should be things Roger really likes (at least for now), rather than things the kids like, or things the kids think Roger should like. Watch the dog; he will tell you how he feels about something. If he's bounding into whatever it is, tail up, ears up, eyes bright, smiley mouth, then that's a Good Thing For Poodles, whatever it is. 

You could also get the kids to hand-feed him his dinner a few times a week, especially if it is laced with something extra yummy. Put the dinner in a bowl up on a counter out of reach, then have the kid drop it by small handfuls into his dinner bowl. (This is a good thing to practice anyway, just so the dog realises that a hand moving towards his dinner bowl is only ever a good thing.)

If a behaviourist is prohibitive on cost terms, try reading up ... Pat Miller, Susanne Clothier, Patricia McConnell, Ian Dunbar ... these are all good.

Ian Dunbar's website (dogstardaily.com) has loads of online training articles available.


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