# Black poodle getting white hairs - grizzling or color change?



## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

He could be blue or bad black. I THINK my dog is a bad black, but he has a couple 'blue spots'.
This picture is of his foot which is his most prominent blue spot (he also has a blue spot on his chest, and it is BLUE not a white mismark)
He also has plenty of white guard hairs throughout his coat.

Brown hair around the nose may lean more towards a blue.


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

The whites in his pedigree could carry fading genes, so that is something to be aware of, he could have gotten the genes for blue. Some blues clear very slowly. But it could go either way, blue or bad black.


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## Kalin (Jun 5, 2019)

chinchillafuzzy said:


> The whites in his pedigree could carry fading genes, so that is something to be aware of, he could have gotten the genes for blue. Some blues clear very slowly. But it could go either way, blue or bad black.



Here are photos of his parents:










Not the clearest, but they’re all I’ve got - his dad (bottom) doesn’t really look like a true black to me, but I guess it could just be that he also has white skin and is shaved close?


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## Kalin (Jun 5, 2019)

UPDATE: I just went back and checked, and the skin on his face is definitely white, but on his body it’s much more of a gray color. Not sure if this makes much of a difference! I feel like I’m grasping for straws here but I think it would be awesome if he turned out blue since his name is Indigo!


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Pretty sure you are going to have a blue boy there. Indigo is a great name.

My Poppy was an inky black at that age and she had just a tiny bit of silver on the inside edges of her ears. She also had some brownish tone around her eyes and muzzle. She started her puppy coat change at about 8 months and finished at about14-15 months and was still mostly black with some white guard hairs. 

At age 2 she suddenly went through another complete coat change which lasted longer than the first. Now at 3 yrs she is a beautiful blue. Her skin has always been a blue/white tint. Poppy's Mom was black and her daddy white....must have been some fading genes in there somewhere.

My previous girl Iris was an inky black her entire life of 14 yrs. she got a bit of silver on her muzzle at 10 but was still inky black everywhere else. Iris also had the blue/white skin.

Coat change can be a big challenge. Both of my girls got shaved down very short on the body, but I left a topknot and floofy tail. Poppy kept her floofy ears but they matted horribly, for months, no matter hat I did or how often I brushed and combed. Iris HATED having ears brushed so I shaved them down and liked them so much I kept them short her whole life. They really helped show off her pretty face. I have considered doing that for Poppy just for fun.

Go to youtube and look up videos on "line brushing a poodle" that will be helpful.
Come back to us for help if you have challenges or questions about coat care, especially during change.

Most of all....enjoy your Indigo Blue!

Attaching pictures of my blue girl Poppy and pretty little Iris with her short ears. The picture of Poppy is from a few weeks ago, she is 3 yrs old. The one of Iris is from when she was 10.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

If there is a bit of growth of hair on the muzzle and it has gotten wet it will oxidize as it dries (especially so if it happens repeatedly). It will turn reddish brown as is Javelin's muzzle right now. He is black and his muzzle will look clearly black when I shave him. His pedigree is mostly blacks and some whites (Mikimoto is his grandfather), but since both his parents were black the only pups from that breeding are black. He does have a very small number of white hairs on his belly but that's about it for white hairs.











On the other hand Lily is quite grizzled and her mother was white so I am not so surprised on that. She also has a less coarse coat than Javelin.


I actually rather disagree with the prognosis that your pup will turn blue. If he were going to blue the new hairs wouldn't be white.


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

Have you posted pics of your puppy? I still think it could go either way at this point. The father of your pup was a gorgeous show dog and dyed black like almost all black show poodles. So it is hard to tell if he was a blue dyed black or if he is a black that hasn’t been out in the sun enough to tan. Black dogs (and on the black spectrum) have white skin that turns black when it gets “tan” and white/cream/red/apricot poodles (except when they have liver points) have pink skin that turns black when it “tans” if they have good pigment. Probably in the case of your pup, only time will tell. But the inside of the ears like VQ mentioned is a good place to look.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

My Asta has sporadic white hairs and very small white patch under his chin and on the bottom of one foot. I would say he is a bad black. His father was a black and mother a black/white parti, so I always say those little white spots and occasional white hairs are from his mother -LOL


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## Kalin (Jun 5, 2019)

chinchillafuzzy said:


> Have you posted pics of your puppy? I still think it could go either way at this point. The father of your pup was a gorgeous show dog and dyed black like almost all black show poodles. So it is hard to tell if he was a blue dyed black or if he is a black that hasn’t been out in the sun enough to tan. Black dogs (and on the black spectrum) have white skin that turns black when it gets “tan” and white/cream/red/apricot poodles (except when they have liver points) have pink skin that turns black when it “tans” if they have good pigment. Probably in the case of your pup, only time will tell. But the inside of the ears like VQ mentioned is a good place to look.




I have loads of photos of him, but the hairs started cropping up so recently and there aren’t many, so I don’t think photos would be super accurate. For example, I can’t see any of the light hairs on his face in any photos I have - I only noticed them myself a couple days ago. Thank you for the pointers! I guess we’ll see what happens!

Edit: I took a close look at his ears and he does actually have a few silver hairs on the edges of the insides (fine, like his black hairs, different than the white on his back) but they are very few and I definitely wouldn’t have noticed them if I hadn’t been looking.

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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Asta's Mom said:


> My Asta has sporadic white hairs and very small white patch under his chin and on the bottom of one foot. I would say he is a bad black. His father was a black and mother a black/white parti, so I always say those little white spots and occasional white hairs are from his mother -LOL



Then Asta is an abstract with just those few and small white spots. And yes, that is presumably from is mom. One of Lily's sisters was an abstract with a white spot on her chest. Part of what I liked about Lily (although not the main reason) was she was all black. Lots of abstracts are really really cute.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

chinchillafuzzy, is that true? That most blacks in the show ring are dyed black? Color me disappointed. Someone (wise) on PF once wrote that the only color that doesn’t fade is white.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

Asta is an abstract?-didn't ever think of that. Guess I am confused as to what is a bad black, an abstract and a mismark. Couldn't really define any of these. Still a poodle newbie-LOL


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## Kalin (Jun 5, 2019)

Asta's Mom said:


> Asta is an abstract?-didn't ever think of that. Guess I am confused as to what is a bad black, an abstract and a mismark. Couldn't really define any of these. Still a poodle newbie-LOL




If I’m not mistaken, abstracts have actual markings (for Asta, these would be the spots) and bad blacks have white hairs mixed in with their black ones, but I’m also a poodle newbie as far as colorations go!

Edit: oh, and I believe abstracts and mismarks can be used interchangeably. They just have markings that don’t follow one of the specified ones (e.g. tuxedos) and don’t have enough white to be considered a parti.


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## Kalin (Jun 5, 2019)

I found out today he actually has some silver/brindle in his dad’s background too! Just not registered as such, I suppose. My trainer (very close with his breeder) said it isn’t unlikely he’ll turn out blue, especially since I’ve been finding lighter hairs between his toes and on his face the past few days 


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