# Is my spoo puppy fat? Are traditional guidelines inappropriate?



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

My own vet is always happy with Sophy's weight, even when I think she is getting a bit podgy - I think he sees so many thoroughly overweight dogs that his idea of normal may be a bit more forgiving than mine... Poodles do tend to be lighter than many other breeds their size. I suspect that your pup might be a little more solid than the breeder's own agility dogs, especially as he is just finishing his rapid growth phase. I always found my pups filled out, then stretched up, then filled out again. I would watch his weight carefully, but it doesn't sound to me as if he needs to diet yet awhile!


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

Thanks FJM! that sounds pretty reasonable. You are right that poodles are supposed to be kind of 'skinny dogs' I have always noticed that a shaved down poodle looks a bit like a mix between a lab and a greyhound.

It is true that his build is inherently solid. He has been checked by a judge before who commented that he is very square and compact, and that this feature is ideal for a Spoo. The little agility dogs (the one's that I am referring to) are certainly not like this. 

And I think you are right that the best thing to do is just to watch the food intake. He does have some small amounts of fat now that the growth cycle has changed and so we will monitor that and ensure we don't overfeed him, all the while ensuring he gets plenty of exercise. 

No midnight snacks, and no diet either. I know that up until 10 months his growth plates are still in action and I certainly don't want to interfere with his growing body by putting him on some sort of diet. The vet (who, granted, probably IS used to dealing with properly fat dogs!) said that these kinds of fluctuations are pretty normal for a growing puppy. I'm keeping an eye on him at any rate!

Also I think you are right about this filling and stretching process. He has so much extra skin at the moment, I think his body is making room for the coming months of his puppy growth.


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## Sammy the spoo (Jul 7, 2016)

From everything you have described, I would not consider him fat. My spoo was 38lbs 9oz just a week before 7 months old. He was likely 23 in/24in then too. 

You probably have read the other thread that called for all spoo heights and weights, and you'll see that your pup is just about the same as the others . Also you'll find a range in there too. If he is somewhere between 2-3 on your chart, I probably won't worry too much about him being "fat" or not. He's a growing puppy and maybe he is the type that pudges up a bit before growing. 

My human children go through a phase of eat, pudge up, then grows. And they are super lean. Maybe the breeder friend caught him at the awkward time. Sounds like you are very conscientious about what and how much to feed your pup, and I think he will be ok!!! I would assess his weight once he has reached his full weight and height (which is like 18 months?)


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Your pup sounds pretty close in height and weight to what Javelin was at that age. He has never been called fat. He is now 18 months old and has been pretty steady in the 48-50 pound range and is probably about 24" at the withers.

I would trust your vet.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Trust your Vet and your instincts.

I have a 9 month old spoo pup who has gone through stages where she looks chunkier, but isn't. And stages where she is lanky and skinny looking. She went through growth of 2# a week and growth of 1# every 3 weeks.

Last week Poppy looked too short for her body length then all of a sudden she was taller yesterday and better proportioned. I can easily feel her ribs and spine, but she is not too skinny. When her puppy coat is fluffier she also looks more chubby.

Relax, enjoy your pup, ignore what that breeder says and listen to your vet. 

:angel:


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

Dolly (8 1/2 mths) is 22 1/2" and holding at 42 lbs, and I don't consider her fat at all. He sounds a perfect size to me, and I wouldn't give the "really fat" remark any thought what so ever. I had both girls in the pet store the other day and a woman said "she's loosing her shape" (about Abbey), I laughed and said "you can feel her ribs under that winter coat she's growing".


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I actually don't really know what you mean about loose skin, that's not something I've experienced with my standards.

I will say that vets often refer to what I would consider to be heavy as ideal. Also, remember that a puppy should be kept lean. AKA, on the thin side. Somewhere in between a 2 and a 3 on the chart. 

40 lbs at 23 inches sounds just fine for a male of that height. My refined bitch at maturity is 23 inches and 36 lbs. She has refined bones but holds good weight. So, a larger boned male dog of the same would very well weigh a few more lbs. 

I wouldn't worry too much about what your friend's breeder thinks. It sounds like possibly that breeder just likes them thin. Or maybe they have a line that struggles to keep weight on and aren't used to easier keepers, so yours seems very "different". Sounds like you are very careful and mindful, and your pup sounds within average to me.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Maizie has really loose skin around her neck especially. She's on the thin side of normal.


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## sidewinder (Feb 3, 2016)

My spoo pup Mackey is a little short of 7 months, born April 11. He is Maizie's full brother from a younger litter. Your description of your pup sounds very much as if he is in similar condition to my Mac, if a little smaller dog. Mackey's about 50 lb, and 26" tall. I can feel his ribs and his backbone, but they are not prominent. He's very muscular and fit. Your pup sounds perfect! I wouldn't listen to the medium poo breeder, she sounds as if she breeds dogs with a different body type.

My previous spoo was a smaller dog and very hyper and active. Somewhat nervous in temperament. She was always very thin...looked at times liike a walking skeleton! At age 15, she bloated 3 times. I changed her over to a raw diet and she actually gained weight for the first time! I think she had a grain sensitivity that I had not known about. At the time, it was not easy to find kibble with no grain. Something for the medium poo breeder (and your friend) to think about.

Also...Mackey has very loose skin on his neck and head. I really hope he grows into it! It's very hard to shave his face without damage!

I wouldn't worry about your little guy..he sounds perfect! BTW, I have never bred poodles, but I bred and showed Scottish Terriers for 20 years. I have had lots and lots of dogs. In my experience, if you can feel the dog's (any breed) backbone, you are OK. If you can't, the dog is overweight.


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

Thanks a lot to everyone who has chimed in here! It is nice to hear from people who have first hand experience with Spoo puppies, and it helps to assure me that my puppy is really pretty normal. 

I think that he probably is just in a funny phase of growth where he might be preparing for the final puppy growth spurt that will occur over the next months. Also, as Sammy the Spoo pointed out, sometimes kids (human and dog alike!) are skinnier than other times and it's a normal phase of the growing process. This is also what the vet said. 

My instinct was indeed that the breeder was comparing him to an unrealistic standard, because she doesn't have any experience with Spoos which are generally 3 to 5 times the size of her little dogs. I know that the puppy my friend has didn't grow after he was 6 months old (sure he will fill out a bit). Anyway, I don't think she realizes that a 6 month old Spoo is still such a 'child' that has a long way to go. However, without some further opinions I was a bit confused because she is the closest thing to a "breed expert" who has seen him lately. Anyway, you guys have helped me to see this all more clearly. 

I also realize that not everyone is familiar with lose skin, Charismatic Millie has pointed out that she never even experienced it with her spoos. It is genetic and very common in Spoos, that said, not all lines will have it. It is common in all larger breed puppies. their skin literally grows first in order to accommodate an upcoming growth spurt. You can actually grab a hand full without hurting the puppy! Someone who isn't familiar with this might be thrown off and think it is all fat or something. It is a bit alien if you are unfamiliar with it, for sure. 

Puff Daddy's ribs and spine are very easy to feel. I could even count the bones If I were so inclined! He is surely not fat. However, I am just going to monitor his growth as I always have. I expect that he will be gaining weight of course, but if he actually starts to 'feel fatter' then I will just have to adjust his feeding from there. As it stands, I am expecting a bit of a growth spurt and we will continue living our life, without fear of Puff Daddy falling down the rabbit hole of k9 obesity!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I've seen the loose skin in giant breed puppies but just not in any of my standards. However, I consider standards to be more of medium to large breed and I go out of my way to support very slow, steady growth. Now, I am familiar with the undesirable genetic loose skin (throaty or flappy) but I don't attribute that to puppyhood since it's undesirable characteristic evident in adulthood.


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## PuffDaddy (Aug 24, 2016)

From a biological standpoint, loose skin can occur for a phase in preparation for growth (in height) before 12 months in many puppies, and it isn't reserved only for giant breeds. Of course, the bigger a dog will become, the more they have to grow into, so it's more noticeable in large dogs and you won't notice much in small breeds that finish growing relatively fast. This is not to say that every puppy or line will experience it, only that a variety of puppies could. 

Interestingly, the loose skin turned up kind of recently (in the last month?) and wasn't always a feature. It isn't hanging or floppy; not a visible turkey neck feature or anything. But I can feel it on his upper torso and the back of the neck and hips. These points are indicative of, although not exclusive to, future height growth. 

Time will tell is that is just a part of his development and his body is planning on growing into it over the coming months/year, or if it's just a part of his future make up. 

The only definitive that can be said here, is that it is beyond fascinating to watch a puppy grow and change! I am always curious about how he is going to end up, and I have seen him go through a myriad of phases both physically and psychologically.

As long as he is healthy, happy and fit, then I am am happy, too!


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## Dina (Jan 24, 2016)

Hugo is 5.5 months old and weighs 40.2 lbs. He has put on some weight these last few weeks as before you could feel every rib indentation as you pet him but you could not see them. Now you can still feel them, but less predominant. Which is great! I think he is ideal right now as he is farly tall  i need to neasute him but i think he around 23 " 

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