# Coat change



## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I know there's threads already with the same title. I'm
just here to vent my frustration with this event. So here it goes:

I'm so exasperated by this process!!!!! Everytime I feel his body I want to cry because he's so matted... and I had just brushed him for a while only hours before. His hair is getting so out of hand that I'm really just about to shave it all off. The only thing stopping me is with winter coming, I'm afraid he'll be cold. I've been growing his coat out and everything's been just dandy until literally a week ago. It's like his hair went on mutiny. I've never seen the mats so bad. I think his coat change has officially started and he'll be 1 years old at the end of November. I'm beginning to think I'm being over ambitious trying to grow coat during a coat change. I'm sad cause I have all these haircut ideas but looks like it'll be better till I wait until the coat change is over, and just keep him in a Miami. Ugh... If only there was a cute haircut where it'd look good if I shaved his chest down to his tummy, elbows & side of forelegs, and sides of the abdomen... and shaved his neck...


----------



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Are you planning to show him? If not, why put yourself through this misery? Clip him off and spend the time you'd be brushing him just enjoying him. Coat change is EVIL! When we were growing Quincy's coat through his, it was snowy and rainy and he was damp more than he was dry which just made for mats central! It was frigging horrible, but we had to carry on because he was being shown. But if not for that, the second I realized it was coat change, I would have clipped him down immediately. And my way of looking at the cold is, with long coat, if they go out in the snow they can stay damp for hours, With short coat, a couple of good shakes and a towel down and they are dry, which I think is a much better scenario.


----------



## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

He is not being shown. I'm just stuck on the fact I want to put him in a continental clip. Maybe I should do that soon and shave him into a miami once the novelty of the continental wears off. It's funny that I'm worried about winter in Texas when many people get snow! It does not snow here and probably the lowest it gets is low 40s. Last year we had freak weather and got snow, sleet, and hail. I really don't know how show people deal with all that hair and coat change!! I'd be ripping my own hair out.


----------



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

tokipoke said:


> He is not being shown. I'm just stuck on the fact I want to put him in a continental clip. Maybe I should do that soon and shave him into a miami once the novelty of the continental wears off. It's funny that I'm worried about winter in Texas when many people get snow! It does not snow here and probably the lowest it gets is low 40s. Last year we had freak weather and got snow, sleet, and hail. I really don't know how show people deal with all that hair and coat change!! I'd be ripping my own hair out.


Well, then I would put him into his CC now and get someone to scissor him really well. At least that eliminates some of the coat. It is a difficult journey, especially if it is just for the look and not for any real purpose. And the only way to keep the dog mat free, is do a thorough brush and comb out, then bathe, condition and blow out every 1-2 weeks. Clean coat does not mat like dirty coat does.


----------



## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I am new to this poodle coat stuff, I have never even heard of a coat change... what's up with that. I just posted a new thread about a puppy cut...


----------



## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I bathe him almost weekly now. He gets really grimy from the dog park. I brush and comb out before the bath but seems like it gets clumpy again during the bath. Im careful not to overagitate the areas where it mats easily with a lot of friction when i'm massaging in shampoo. I do however work in conditioner on the matted areas. I feel like my force dryer isn't strong enough to blow apart the mats. I'm going to bring him to work with me and use the K9-III. Hopefully this will work. If so, I will be purchasing a similar model and maybe then the mats will be easier to handle. The hair where the mats occur are very very fine and wispy. The mats look like tangled spider webs.


----------



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

tokipoke said:


> I bathe him almost weekly now. He gets really grimy from the dog park. I brush and comb out before the bath but seems like it gets clumpy again during the bath. Im careful not to overagitate the areas where it mats easily with a lot of friction when i'm massaging in shampoo. I do however work in conditioner on the matted areas. I feel like my force dryer isn't strong enough to blow apart the mats. I'm going to bring him to work with me and use the K9-III. Hopefully this will work. If so, I will be purchasing a similar model and maybe then the mats will be easier to handle. The hair where the mats occur are very very fine and wispy. The mats look like tangled spider webs.


Do you have a REALLY good conditioner like Coat Handler. We would dilute as instructed, and rinse, leaving more in than we removed. Then we would drizzle the diluted CH onto the trouble spots and just squeeze out and towel off but not rinse those areas out. For us it was head, ears, neck and the insides of his elbows.


----------



## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I have not used Coat Handler. I will have to try it. I am always open to trying new products. I've been using Biogroom products: Silk Creme Rinse, and the Super Cream coat conditioner. I disliked how the Super Cream made his hair look. It looked like it had gel in it, blew out with the dryer great, but then the hair felt like it stuck to each other. I diluted the Super Cream and massaged it into his hair and then rinsed, but even with rinsing, it still left conditioner on the coat. I will have to try the blotting method you mentioned with the Silk Creme Rinse instead of rinsing it out.


----------



## vtomblin (Jul 18, 2010)

I second the coat handler. Just got through show coat change! I put about 3/4 cup in a Rubbermaid juice jug and pour it over. I don't rinse it out at all. I've tried alot of combinations and have had some. Very worrying grooming sessions trying to save coat. The only other conditioner I use between shows is pure paws deep conditioning. But we have like zero humidity here. Not sure it would help in Texas. I also bath weekly. You could put him in an HCC. Grow out from a short conti. Get rid of all the evil hair. 

Don't worry about the cold. They are good at adapting. Plus it's not really very cold where you are in the grand scheme of things. My guys are out in -40 C in bare bums. They decide when they are done. Hold in there it will pass and you'll have alot of years of nice hair after.


----------



## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

vtomblin said:


> Don't worry about the cold. They are good at adapting. Plus it's not really very cold where you are in the grand scheme of things. My guys are out in -40 C in bare bums. They decide when they are done. Hold in there it will pass and you'll have alot of years of nice hair after.


I second the "dont' worry about the cold" comment! I live in North Dakota and we have C.O.L.D here!!!!!! I had Lucy in a continental since she was about 9 months old and would shave her entire back end (minus the rosettes) with a 40 blade and she'd go plop her naked hiney in the snowbanks with her nose into the wind and just SIT there!! :lol: She is actually more comfortable in cool/cold weather than in warm/hot!

I struggled through her coat change and didn't clip her down (because I'm stubborn that way, and I KNEW I could do it!!) but if I had it to do all over again, I'd probably take the easier route and take her short - at least through the "change"... I'm starting to get a little less anal about keeping her in a continental now - she was in one from 9 months old until just after she turned 2 - now, I've taken a TON off her length and we're working on letting her short bits grow a little so she'll look good in a Miami/New York/Bikini (or whatever they're called!) She's a lot happier without all that HAIR!! :lol:

Good luck!


----------



## lavillerose (Feb 16, 2011)

I ended up doing fancy cuts when my girl was 7 months out of pure impatience, but a month later in high summer out of necessity (my broken cooler) I shaved her to a miami. I am SO GLAD I did, because I skipped coat change all together, never dealt with a single mat. And now it's been six months, and Albi is back to being uber fluffy, 2"+ long again (and now that its winter and snowy, I'm probably going to cave and take it off in the next couple months because snow is murder!).

Now granted, Spoos are bigger and need more coat to look fluffy than a Mini, you'll have to grow it for more time to get what you want, but it does grow back.

And I wouldn't worry about cold either. They're largely indoor dogs, if they are cold while playing outside, they'll let you know they want back in. Poodle hair isn't terribly insulating anyway, they don't have undercoat like other breeds, so no matter if it's an inch long or four inches, it isn't helping that much unless you have something more solid on top, like a coat holding their body heat against them. They don't need a coat just to go out and pee, more just for extended outdoor time. 

I just ordered Albi a bodysuit from K9topcoat.com. They have lots of types. Expensive, but I'm hoping it'll be worth it.


----------



## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I know it's just hair and it'll grow back, I'm just so shocked in the difference in texture all of a sudden. I did shave him down to a Miami when he was 7 months old. I thought I skipped the coat change altogether, but to my surprise, it's only the beginning! Now I wonder when it'll be complete. He's almost 1 yo, so maybe by 2 yo he'll have a plush poodle coat. I know I have haircut ideas but the clip will only look good if the hair is good, so might as well save the ideas and wait.


----------



## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

Why not just put in a "Lamb" clip. That is exactly what you described- chest, stomach, uneder arms, neck all taken short then you have long legs, TK, ears & tail to deal with. It will grow out fast enough. The body length is up to you but maybe start off with a #1 SOC & scissor full legs.


----------



## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

3dogs said:


> Why not just put in a "Lamb" clip. That is exactly what you described- chest, stomach, uneder arms, neck all taken short then you have long legs, TK, ears & tail to deal with. It will grow out fast enough. The body length is up to you but maybe start off with a #1 SOC & scissor full legs.


It would look like a wonky lamb because the heavily matted areas are the upper arms and flank. I guess it'd have to be a very short lamb hugging close to those areas. I'm going to put him in a continental and then a miami. Actually waiting till it gets colder so the mosquitos will go away. They have been very bad here.


----------



## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

Here's a conversation I had with my husband regarding Leroy's hair:


Me: How do you feel about me giving him a haircut?

H: Cut all his hair off? I'm fine with whatever you do. I know you hate all that hair.

Me: How did you know I wanted to shave all of it off?

H: You hate all his mats. And plus, his hair looks like crap.

Me: What! You think he looks crappy??

H: Yeah! Look at him.

(10 minutes later)

Me: You're okay if I put him in a Continental Clip?

H: (immediately answering) Yep.

Me: Do you mind me putting you in a Continental Clip?

H: (immediately answering) Sure!

At that point I don't even think he was listening lol. Or I have him well trained. He will let me do whatever haircut I want.


----------



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

You sound like me, totally unsure what to do. I have settled on a sporting cut for now, but not too short. We don't get much winter and it never snows, but it does feel cold sometimes because the air is so dry. If my whippet can keep himself warm, the poodle certainly can. 

 My husband has been bugging me to trim Bonnie shorter for months. You are lucky yours doesn't care too much.


----------



## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I comb/brush him everyday. He's on a weekly bathing schedule. I blow dry his coat with a force dryer... and he still gets mats. It's just his hair. It will mat no matter what. I was brushing him just now and I sighed and said "Ugh, his hair is so bad, and he LOOKS bad" and my husband chimed in "Yeah, you can't even tell his mother is a groomer." Can't believe he said that! lol I threatened to shave my husband's head. 

I'm trying to decide whether to give him his new haircut before Thanksgiving or after. I'll be taking him to visit my parents. Do I want them to see him as a big fluffy pup? Or in a CC? They may think the CC is a weird haircut.


----------



## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

Ugh, Bonzai is 8 months and I was horrified at the sudden appearance of mats after a 3 hour hike the other day. She had them on her ears, between her front legs, and on her tummy. I carefully brushed them out and groomed her for the 2nd time this week at the end of my work day. She got the CC White on White treatment, which includes Thick n Thicker followed by a half-donkey  After Bath. Then she sat in 2oz of heated Isle of Dogs Nutrient Masque before being rinsed out and dried completely. 

I put Bonzai in her Conti when she was about 6 months... wait, is she 9 months now? Oh, I don't know, her bday is in march and she had just under 5 inches of coat when I put her into her Conti. I bathe and deep condition with IOD once a week religiously and fluff her out completely. She has about 6.5 in of hair in her longest areas. 

Make sure you are using top quality products and blowing that hair straight after baths. Put box fans around him to speed up drying time aand gently backbrush with a soft pin brush or better yet, an LP brush while you dry. Use a good detangling spray when you brush... NEVER brush a dry coat, that causes split ends and damage, which in turn tangle much easier.

Are you SURE you're brushing thoroughly before the bath? Something tells me you might not be. If lots of hidden mats are surfacing during the bath, that's a good sign you're missing key areas. For example, I found gnarly armpit mats today and a nice-size chunk in her crest, caused by her supposed anti-matting rolled leather collar. 

If his coat is not pretty, it sounds like you may have damagd it with improper dry brushing. Do invest in a GOOD product, my favorite is IOD!


----------



## Anntig (Jun 9, 2010)

Shadow started his coat change at the end of january I managed it really well for the first three weeks with weekly baths and silicon conditioner (as well as twice daily brushing) whether I would have kept it up I'll never know as after the earthquake we had a month without enough water to shower let alone bath the dogs. Coat change + no water+ silt and grit everywhere=matted mess, and meant when I finally could do him again I had to shave his body with a #10 blade.
Took me six months to grow his coat back and then I had to shave it off for summer, oh well lucky I enjoy playing with styles. I would have liked to see him in a full conti though.
Maybe you could do what I did, put him in a ponydoodle leaving the head and crest long and taking the rest off, it leaves you with hair to play with and gives you a head start if you want to grow it out again.


----------



## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I'm going to look into Coat Handler and IOD. Plus I should be getting some LP brushes. I have made the mistake of brushing a dry coat. Either way, the damage is done. I'm going to shave it off and start over.


----------



## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

*Leroy's coat*

Thought I'd post a pic of what his coat looks like. I brushed and blow dried his coat. I stopped using the Bio-groom products (creme rinse and coat conditioner), and surprisingly his coat was easier to blow dry and brush the mats out. It wasn't AS bad to brush the mats but still a lot of work. I used three shampoos: SPA White Pear whitening shampoo, Pure paws whitening (diluted), and Faux Paws Fame whitening/brightening shampoo (diluted for body, undiluted for head). It sounds like a lot of whitening shampoos but I use the SPA one just to get all the dirt off. The Faux Paws is a Laube brand and it smells sooooo good. I'm still surprised that I didn't use one conditioner and his mats blew out easier and his hair is very soft. I've come to the conclusion I do not like Bio-groom. I only like their Anti-itch oatmeal shampoo for my hairless cats - it makes their skin super soft and not so greasy.

Leroy has about 2.5-3 inches of hair, so I'm hoping this is enough for the continental clip. I'm trying to grow his TK and he has enough hair for three little "horns."


----------



## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

Good job! I HATE Biogroom with a Passion... almost as much as I despise Tropiclean! Neither of these brands will ever touch a single hair on Bonzai's pampered body! 

There are a few quality brands to Google. crown Royale, Chris Christiansen, Les Pooch, Isle of Dogs. Also, watch out for big AKC shows and attend on poodle day. There will be a couple of vendors around selling all kinds of lovely products to play with at reasonable prices.

Also: Chris Christiansen has AWESOME $10 sample sets on the site. I just finished the last of my White on White sample set and Bonzai went from cream to white in half an hour! Caution: this treatment requires a heavy deep condition once your pup has over 6 inches of hair....it contributed to bonzai''s recent matting episode!


----------



## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

FunkyPuppy said:


> Good job! I HATE Biogroom with a Passion... almost as much as I despise Tropiclean! Neither of these brands will ever touch a single hair on Bonzai's pampered body!
> 
> There are a few quality brands to Google. crown Royale, Chris Christiansen, Les Pooch, Isle of Dogs. Also, watch out for big AKC shows and attend on poodle day. There will be a couple of vendors around selling all kinds of lovely products to play with at reasonable prices.
> 
> Also: Chris Christiansen has AWESOME $10 sample sets on the site. I just finished the last of my White on White sample set and Bonzai went from cream to white in half an hour! Caution: this treatment requires a heavy deep condition once your pup has over 6 inches of hair....it contributed to bonzai''s recent matting episode!


I wanted to give the Bio-groom products a try because I got some bottles for dirt cheap. But wow, I really hate their products. No wonder Leroy's hair has been looking so glum - all that BG crap I've been putting in his hair has been weighing it down and collecting dirt. I put in an order for the LP whitening shampoo (very excited about this) and I was eyeing the CC $10 sample set. I still have some Pure Paws samples so may experiment with that till my LP shampoo arrives.


----------

