# I admit, I suck as a trainer... help?



## Tipz (Aug 10, 2016)

I have a 7.5 month spoo. He's got the most amazing personality, loves absolutely everyone and every dog. He thinks everyone is his best friend and will get so excited when he sees anyone.
He jumps up on people all the time. He's so bouncy and excited. I can get friends to hold him from jumping up but I have no idea what I'm supposed to do with strangers who see him walking and get all excited and riled up.
He comes when I call him but he's still Horrendous on a leash. He's just too excited about exploring and running and moving around that he will pull and pull and pull. I've got a silk martingale collar on him, when I adjust it and move it up he does much better but as soon as he puts his head down at all it slides back down the neck and doesn't stay tight.
In a dream world I'd be able to keep using this though as I'd love to be able to grow him out and I know any other collars destroy the hair but I'm kind of just at the point of being like screw it. He can't stay this crazy on walks.
I've gotten him to heal nicely in the backyard with treats, he does well but as soon as we're out and about he's super stimulated and couldn't care less about the treats. Generally by the end of his walks he's calmed down and will walk nicely since he got all his crazies out but he's still a nightmare for the first 3/4 of the walk. I don't know how to get him to just stay calm when walking. He's So freaking excited and in love with everything and it's hard because I don't want to get mad at him for being happy and loving but I don't know how to deal with it either. Generally I just deal with the pulling but I know that's a horrible solution, I'm also getting my cast from my broken wrist off soon and I'm scared to not have the protection of the cast to hold it in place while he's pulling like a mad man...


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Watch these videos by Kikopup:


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Play ball or with a flirt pole with your pup before you attempt to walk through your neighborhood. If you scrub some energy off him before you go out into the world he will be more likely to be able to pay attention to you.

Personally I would put a pinch collar on him when he is a bit older if he still pulls, but in the mean time you are going to have to find ways to make your walking/leash experiences into thinking work. You may not go very far and while you may be thinking if you don't go anywhere how is he getting exercise, but trust me if you make his brain work he will be getting plenty of really tiring exercise. After having a good play put his leash on and go to the gate out of your back yard. If the leash stays loose getting there ask for a sit and give a treat while on the sit. Once that is really reliable, go through the gate. If the leash stays loose getting there ask for a sit and give a treat while on the sit. Once that is really reliable, go to the end of the driveway. If the leash stays loose getting there ask for a sit and give a treat while on the sit. Okay so now you have the picture of what you want, what if that isn't what happens...you become a tree. Stop moving and stand there quietly. Let him do his thing. It may take time at first, but he will figure out that what he is doing isn't working and he will look at you to try to figure it out. Say yes and give a treat the instant he checks in like that. Take one step, if the leash stays loose take another. As soon as he pulls again be a tree again or if he is really unable to check in go back to the last reliable place and start again. I did variations of this with all three of our current dogs. I am sure my neighbors mostly thought I was mentally defective or that there was something severely wrong with whichever pup I had with me, but now most people I see when I am out with them say they wish their dogs behaved 1/10th as well as mine. I remind them that they saw what I did to get to the point where they all admire them so much.

For jumping up, there are a couple of strategies. One would be to instruct all of your friends and family to have treats that you supply and to order a sit or down when he approaches ready to jump up. the other thing is to eventually put a jump up on cue. I call jump up "give hugs" and both of my poodles get rewarded with hugs frequently enough that they tend not to try to jump on me when I don't want them to. I am the only person they are allowed to jump on.

Another thing you want to generally think about with your pup is to teach him to ignore "attractive nuisances" like friendly looking strangers, other dogs, kids on bikes, cars, cats.......To do that you want to install great and comfortable eye contact connection and focus. You should also think about teaching "look at that." If you want to see some information on good focus and attention games look at this thread. http://www.poodleforum.com/24-perfo...-hunting/205393-javelins-road-ring-ready.html

If you haven't taken this boy to a good positive methods oriented but balanced obedience class do so now. A good trainer will look at things like the timing of your reinforcements, the consistency with which you give your orders and the like and can help you become a better manager of your youngster's behavior. You will be thankful for spending the time now once he grows into himself and becomes the pleasant and relaxing companion you want him to be.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Take Lily's advice! Also take her advice and take your dog to OB classes....call your local ASPCA they usually offer classes that are positive reinforcement based and reasonably priced..........learning how to teach your dog correctly with love and understanding should be your goal!!! Good Luck!


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

You aren't a bad trainer! I have so much sympathy for you. Honestly you've reached the magical age of the energetic crazy teenage puppy time. It is the equivalent of the terrible twos for humans. I have trained two puppies in the past year. Both received the same kind of training and one is brilliant and the other couldn't pass the CGC if my life depended on it. Honestly our class was massive exercise in embarrassment for us because she did better in the beginning than the end when her energy increased even further at 8.5 months. She wasn't just the last in her class but it was like if you brought a stereotypically insane dog to training. She would heel at home and at the class she is dragging me around like a rag doll. She will jump on the testers and bark at the well behaved dog next to her and then try to jump on them to play. On some days she will behave well with food. Sometimes she will even have a tantrum when you tell her no she barks back and rolls on you. She is the only dog that talks back in disagreement. When you tell her to get up she will go limp and not stand. My husband pulled his back last week and couldn't move for two days trying to make her stand. It is like a scene out of a dog movie; hilarious to the viewer and embarrassing for the owner. 

The crazy part is she currently has two trainers I consult with and I trained the other puppy myself with no help. He was tremendously easy because of his temperament but even his energy was very high around 8 months. I think puppies go nuts at around this very age until 14 months but it is crucial to keep the obedience lessons going even if you don't think it is working. One of my dogs is driving me nuts right now and i don't know what I would do if I didn't have another dog to occupy her time. She also jumps on people esp strangers. She is very outgoing, friendly, and energetic. Best if you can channel their energy in physical or mental games and even then they will have more energy afterwards. Typically dogs like this train best with treats. Hang in there and know that it is a phase and better days are to come. 


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Another way to find a good training class is through this obedience club search tool that is at the AKC site. AKC clubs are often non-profits and also offer very reasonable classes. Membership in my club is $35 a year and classes for members are $12 and you can drop in any time on the schedule for the level you are at, or we also offer beginner classes at $140 for 6 weeks or $185 for 8 weeks. 

Here is the link: https://webapps.akc.org/club-search/#/obedience


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

You are not alone - I suck as a trainer also. Asta and I flunked out of obedience class here but I think it was probably for the best as the training was not what I would term positive - they wanted me to put a choke collar on Asta. As there was only this one training class locally, I just quit going. You surely have a teenager there, such a difficult time, they are just crazy. Asta calmed down a lot once he reached 2 years old but even as a 3 year old there are times he still gets over-excited, especially when people come to visit and during play he really gets going. I have also practically given up trying to teach him frisbee. He knows to come to his name, he knows sit, he knows the drop command but try and put it together and he just goes nuts and wants to play keep away instead. He has his own ideas about things and I often feel like a training failure. BTW, I also fail as a groomer. But gosh darn, I love my poodle and can't imagine life without him.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

For laugh and giggles. The last time we brought our dogs to get their first round of canine flu, Kit misbehaved and so my husband penciled me in for the second shot. I just noticed the title










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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

snow0160 said:


> For laugh and giggles. The last time we brought our dogs to get their first round of canine flu, Kit misbehaved and so my husband penciled me in for the second shot. I just noticed the title
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Husband gets points for great sense of humor!?


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Try a no pull harness. I use a Walk Your Dog With Love front clip harness with Noelle. We are now transitioning to a martingale collar, but that front clip saved my arms. I like the Walk Your Dog With Love because the harness is positioned above her shoulders.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

After reading all of this I don't feel like such a failure with training Poppy.

She has been more of a challenge to train than all of my previous dogs combined.

Her joyful exhuberance at times has caused me several severe injuries in spite of all the tools and years of experience with dogs that I have had. She was a great source of amusement and entertainment for everyone in our training classes, instructor included, however I was not amused.....rather exhausted.

All that said, we passed the classes with flying colors in the end. I often get complimented on how well behaved she is when in public and at a year and a half of age I finally can see that my girl might actually act like a grown up one day. We still have a long way to go but I no longer have those occasional feelings that I should not have gotten another puppy at my age and stage of life.

Poppy does continue to amuse me, most days, and she is developing a really Sweet and loving personality all of her own, is less and less the crazy deranged puppy and I do love her dearly.

Hang in there everyone. We all have those temporary feelings of being inadequate dog trainers, but trust me, it is temporary!

Love Cathy and JOYFUL Poppy

Sorry the picture is sideways and I don't know how to fix it. She is mastering the iPad in the picture


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Viking Queen said:


> After reading all of this I don't feel like such a failure with training Poppy.
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The crazy ones tend to also be the most amusing ones.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Click-N-Treat said:


> Try a no pull harness. I use a Walk Your Dog With Love front clip harness with Noelle. We are now transitioning to a martingale collar, but that front clip saved my arms. I like the Walk Your Dog With Love because the harness is positioned above her shoulders.



I also have the gentle leader and easy walk front clip harness. Both device helps with pulling but doesn't really teach them not to pull. Between the two I would go with the gentle leader if your dog is stronger than you. It really depends on your dog's personality. Lucky did fine on easy walk but Kit will pull hard with this if she sees something interesting and does better on the gentle leader. The gentle leader is almost like what they put on horses. 

The gentle leader and easy walk is a tool to prevent pulling but not a training tool. The martingale collar has been best way to have them understand that pulling is bad. Our instructor had us get the kind with a buckle so you can easily take it off. This was what we used to teach Kit heel. She actually has a better heel than Lucky as long as you have food in your hand.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

snow0160 said:


> The crazy ones tend to also be the most amusing ones.


I know....and I would not have it any other way??


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

The real way to teach a dog not to pull or not to jump is to help them to understand that making a good decision not to do so is going to be recognized and rewarded. Gentle leaders and other harnesses that prevent pulling and jumping prevent the behaviors you don't want by making it physically impossible for the dog to do that behavior. It will take longer to teach not pulling on the leash using a flat buckle collar or martingale and a leash, but the results will be lasting because the dog will have learned something instead of being prevented from learning anything.


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## Dina (Jan 24, 2016)

Tipz said:


> I have a 7.5 month spoo. He's got the most amazing personality, loves absolutely everyone and every dog. He thinks everyone is his best friend and will get so excited when he sees anyone.
> He jumps up on people all the time. He's so bouncy and excited. I can get friends to hold him from jumping up but I have no idea what I'm supposed to do with strangers who see him walking and get all excited and riled up.
> He comes when I call him but he's still Horrendous on a leash. He's just too excited about exploring and running and moving around that he will pull and pull and pull. I've got a silk martingale collar on him, when I adjust it and move it up he does much better but as soon as he puts his head down at all it slides back down the neck and doesn't stay tight.
> In a dream world I'd be able to keep using this though as I'd love to be able to grow him out and I know any other collars destroy the hair but I'm kind of just at the point of being like screw it. He can't stay this crazy on walks.
> I've gotten him to heal nicely in the backyard with treats, he does well but as soon as we're out and about he's super stimulated and couldn't care less about the treats. Generally by the end of his walks he's calmed down and will walk nicely since he got all his crazies out but he's still a nightmare for the first 3/4 of the walk. I don't know how to get him to just stay calm when walking. He's So freaking excited and in love with everything and it's hard because I don't want to get mad at him for being happy and loving but I don't know how to deal with it either. Generally I just deal with the pulling but I know that's a horrible solution, I'm also getting my cast from my broken wrist off soon and I'm scared to not have the protection of the cast to hold it in place while he's pulling like a mad man...


Gosh i'm in the same boat too and i'm losing my mind :afraid: Hugo is the exact same except he is a 16 months old. He's the same in home training is great, yard training is great, out and about is so difficult with all the new doggy smells and people to see he ignores treats no matter the value. (The only time he walks great with no issues is when we go to Canadian Tire due to their almost never being another pup going inside other than him that I've ever noticed, so no doggy smell distraction, he is very in tuned with me then and looks for eye contact with or without treats) Other dogs are his weakness and he just wants to play and meet with every single one in sight and will whine when he sees one. He will still sit on command, and give paw and come when called, ect... but treats do not interest him what so ever so keeping him in a heal or lose leash walking is such a challenge! I hate getting so frustrated with him as I know he can sense it. I'm going to have to start all over again with him in hopes that he will finally understand... I have also tried a no pull harness with a front leash attachment and he does better to the point where he wont pull as much but still pulls whenever something catches his attention. Its really hard to keep his focus on me when he isn't very food or toy motivated... :/

(I do training and fetch before we even step out the door and it helps a bit, but still needs some more work)


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

I feel your pain. Archie is 3 years old, has been through multiple group training classes including one specifically for focus and attention, and he's still a basket case when he gets to a new place with new people in it. I took him to my husband's softball game last night and he spent a solid half-hour continually pulling and whining and trying to jump on everyone he saw. 

However! I do see that the training has improved things. I do the "be a tree" method that Lily mentioned when he's pulling, and now if he feels any tension in the leash he will instantly stop and look at me. He might immediately try to pull again, but he'll also stop again. Back when I got him, he would just keep going and choke himself (which is why he wore a front-clip harness until his leash training kicked in some more). I can ask for his attention and he will give it to me, even if it's only briefly sometimes. Again, at first he would only do that if I led/dragged/carried him far enough away from whatever was stimulating him.

The biggest thing that helps is mental exercise. Archie is noticeably worse if we haven't been doing training time, even if he's getting more physical exercise than usual. We practice and refine the behaviors he knows, do focus and impulse control exercises, and work on new silly tricks. Difficult chews also help. I've been freezing peanut butter or canned dog food into hollowed-out bones and Kong toys.

Right now it's too hot for him to go outside much during the day _and_ both of his humans have been preoccupied at night with extra work projects. So I've been making training time more challenging. The other night we played 101 Things to Do With a Box and he was exhausted for hours (he also taught himself to smack the box with his nose. It's not useful at all, but it's kind of funny). Edit: when I do shaping exercises like this, I don't lure or encourage him at all. I actually try not to even look at him much. I just sit there and wait for him to make a choice that I can click/treat for. It frustrates him a little but it forces him to puzzle through the situation himself, which is what really works his brain.

Anyway, hang in there. Hopefully your dog will come through the teenage phase and calm down. If not, then take comfort in incremental progress. And you're not alone!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Here's the deal for those of you who have dogs where you end up saying stuff like "but this never happens at home!" while you are turning beet red and giving your best apologetic body language. You have to get away from home and challenge your dog to take the things you think it knows on the road. Dogs are poor generalizers and the only way to get past this is to let them take lessons in as many different places as possible. It takes time and lots and lots of patience.

If your dog gets crazy in your local chain pet store don't go straight in. Park somewhat away from the store and walk towards the entrance and watch your dog as you get closer. When does your dog lose it? 10, 20, 30 or more feet away from the door? If the distance is 30 feet then go out to 40 feet from the door and help your dog to collect her head. Once they have calmed down and remembered that you are there with them do some focus and attention exercises 35 to 40 feet away from the door. Once that is solid go a few feet closer, stopping before they lose it and do more focus exercises. Repeat as often and long as needed until you can sit on a bench next to the door and have your dog keep focused on you while other dogs pass by. Now you should go to the store at a quiet time of day and go in and hang out in the fish aisle or the cat aisle where hopefully you will only see other dogs at a distance. Do your focus and attention work, repeat until you keep a relaxed dog focused on you. Now you can walk around while it is quiet and maybe there will be another dog. Keep your dog's focus. If the other person wants the dogs to greet just tell them your dog is in training and isn't allowed to greet.

Eventually you will get something that resembles this. This was in PetsMart when Javelin was just over 8 months old. I trained him to pass the CGC on my own using the high distraction environment of the store and a long line for distance stays. By the time I knew he was ready for CGC he could do a long sit or long down in front of the very chaotic doggie day care with lots of dogs acting crazy on the other side of the glass.









Thinking you don't have time? Well it does take time, but you don't have to train for an hour at a time. If you can't take a run out to the store go to your front lawn when people are coming home from school and work and use them as your distracters, but taking the same incremental steps outlined above.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

During Hurricane Irma yesterday, Kit went full psycho at my parent's house. Lucky was a perfect little angel in the time of crisis. He wasn't even scared like the way he was on the 4th of July. He was the picture of calm and trying to find a way to escape Kit. He even found my phone when I've misplaced it. When Kit was really scared, Lucky brought over some toys to initiate tuggy. He is such a considerate dog. It was very odd that the other three dogs didn't seem afraid except Kit. Usually, it is the other way around. Kit was also going bananas over my dad. He is the one person that sets her off like no other. I am unsure what it is about him that winds her up that bad. She looked like she was having a psychotic breakdown with the incessant barking (for 3 straight hours), jumping, lunging. She is never like this with any of my neighbors who also adore her. My mom asked me if she was this terrible at home and the answer is no. It also wasn't 100% the storm because she also goes psycho whenever my dad visits. We've also had other visitors as well like friends and neighbors and she does not react to them like the way she reacts to my dad. I can't wait until power gets restored and we continue our weekly lessons. God knows she needs it!

I also wanted to say a few words about context. Lucky is the only dog I know that behaves differently in different context. He is very calm indoors and insane when I let him loose outside. He is also different with his vest on. Kit's behavior does not change too much from different situations. Lucky is very reactive to the environment we bring him to. 
For instance, we trained with Lucky at a super echoey mall and he freaked out and clammed up and rolled into a ball so we left almost immediately. By contrast, Kit doesn't even freak from loud fireworks set off within a few feet. She actually tugged to go see it. 
We've taken her to the pet stores, both our parent's home, home depot, dog parks. She is pretty much the same unless she sees something that excites her like my dad. Usually, if we have treats, it is easy for us to refocus her attention and she does not pull or lunge. For the purpose of public access, Kit is easier to train because she is consistently nonreactive but she is less good for task work. 
What is also interesting is that one of our trainers also trained Lucky's brother. She said he did not pass the CGC and was more like Kit in terms of their training experience. Funny how different they are even from the same litter.


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## Raven's Mom (Mar 18, 2014)

I have the same problem. I feel like a huge failure because Raven is three and acts like a fool on a walk. She is great in "training mode" but a casual walk is totally impossible without the gentle leader. I have tried slip collar, martingale, and prong collar to no avail. Even on the gentle leader she will leap and pull which scares me she will hurt herself but at least my shoulders stay in their sockets! Extremely frustrating because a large part of why I got her was to increase my exercise level but she makes me so mad I often give up and don't try.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Raven's Mom, 

You're not a failure. I'm going to let you in on a dog training secret. One of the hardest skills to teach is loose leash walking. Harder than teaching your dog to open the cupboard, grab a soda, and give it to you. Harder than teaching your dog to unload the clothes dryer. It's counter intuitive for your dog and that's why it's so hard.

The dog wants to go on an adventure and there's this annoying thing in the way, which is you! You're annoying and getting in the way, and the dog is frustrated and pulling harder. Which makes you pull back harder and now you're in a tug of war and it's zero fun.

It's easy to feel like a failure when you have a baboon on your leash and everyone else seems to be walking a dog. It's hard when you have a dog that is so environmentally distracted that you stop existing. The world is so much more interesting than you. There's squirrels, and bikes, and cars, and kids, and grass to sniff, and trees and fire plugs and you want me to leave all this splendor for a pat on the head and a dog treat? HA! What have you been smoking?

It's not hopeless. You just haven't found what works yet. Every dog is different. I stared with a no pull front clip harness and transitioned to a martingale collar. Noelle likes to sniff so I give her permission to sniff and join with her in the game. I show her things to sniff that she missed. I try to engage with her on our walks. Does she pull like a sled dog? Sometimes. Most of the time, I focus on being together. We walk together. It's getting easier a little bit at a time. But, I hear you. It's hard.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Click-N-Treat you are spot on that sticking with us on a leash for a walk is pretty counter-intuitive for our dogs. I also allow a sniffing time then a walking collection time and then a sniffing time...This way we both get things we want. I find I get more check ins when the checking of Pee mail has been done.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Dogs become a lot easier to train past a certain age and after they are spayed or neutered. Lucky for instance really enjoyed humping other male dogs. He is not a dominant dog but does it during play. The humping behavior went away a month after neutering him. 

I've found that after he turning 14 months, he was a lot less energetic and picked up what I wanted him to do very quickly. He had always been a uniquely calm puppy and very well behaved from the beginning but once you've taught him the basics, training is a pleasure and quite fun. Perhaps one just have to get past the teenage puppy hurdle by enforcing good behavior. 


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I surrendered to a no pull harness because Noelle was an environmentally distracted sled dog on a leash. I could not get her attention long enough to teach her want I wanted to see. The no pull harness allowed me to get Noelle to remember I existed, which was the first step in teaching her to walk on a loose leash. Yes, control devices can be used to hold your dog in position, but I still worked on loose leash skills.

Penalty yards worked very well with Noelle in teaching her to walk with me and not drag me across the sidewalk. To play the game....

1. While your dog is in your bedroom, get a very high value reward, (notice, I said reward not treat, so use a new toy if treats aren't your dog's thing)
2. Place it 20 feet away from your bedroom door.
3. Leash your dog and walk together from your bedroom to the reward.
4. If the dog pulls, return to your bedroom and start over.
5. To get the reward, the dog must walk with you to it.

Play this game inside until your dog is calmly walking to the reward indoors on the first try at least 20 times in a row. 

Move the game outside. Expect your dog to act as if this game has never happened before, because it hasn't. Dogs do not generalize well. Playing the game outside is not the same as playing it inside. Inside is checkers. Outside is chess. It's a whole new game to your dog, so be patient. 

To get what you want (reward) 
you must do what I want (walk with me like a calm dog and not a baboon on a leash).

Repeat this game, moving the reward farther from your home, but the penalty remains the same. Pull=return to start and try again. 

Maybe penalty yards doesn't work for your dog. All dogs are different. Here's another game to try. 1 step=1 high value reward. Two steps=1 high value reward. Spread out the steps as far as you can between treats, but if the dog pulls, return to 1 step=1 high value reward.

OK, that game didn't work either. Sigh. 

Be a tree and stand still when the dog pulls.

I had exactly zero luck with this method because Noelle would pull like a sled dog on a picket and forget I existed. Standing still, dog running in a circle around you, is not a loose leash walk. 

Teach your dog to walk backwards, make this the funnest game in the world, and just before your dog pulls, call back up!

Still not working, huh. Darn.

Practice a heel finish. When your dog pulls, stop, call finish! The dog flings herself into heel position and sits. Noelle actually likes this... a lot, and I mean a lot a lot, because she gets to leap in the air and land in a sit. And because I giggle every time she does it.

Once your dog is getting better at loose leash walking, pick a random object along your route, like a house or a tree, and jackpot your dog at that spot by giving 15 treats in a row. Pick another object and repeat. Poodles are SMART, and on your next walk, you'll get to the same object and the dog will be staring at you, looking for a reward. Too bad. We're not getting a reward here. Choose a different object and jackpot there. Keep your dog guessing. This makes walks fun.

Have patience with yourself and play games with your dog. You can do this. I know you can.


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## mashaphan (Sep 4, 2014)

It so takes time! Otter is 9 months old now,my first puppy since 1999 (and she was an angel,HE is all boy),and we have been going to class since he was 3 months old. I surrendered to a prong/pinch collar when I have never used one before-and i have been at this since 1966 :ahhhhh:-very small prongs,hidden (designer prong collars-lolaslimited.com). Had my trainer fit it,as I felt it was too tight. Only used for training,then immediately taken off,and at this point I don't think he even notices it is there. He is also a bouncer (I swear he will break my nose one day!:banghead and 2nd level trainer said "put it on cue,since you want that move for freestyle one day" -We are working on that.:argh:

lots of great suggestions here. Patience,above all,patience. They are puppies,and some day I will miss these antics. Spoos are a whole different ball game from the sighthounds to whom I am used. A GOOD class is a must,with trainers who have experience with multiple breeds,and divisions thereof. We will get through this!

Martha,Otter and big brother whippet Che,who has about had HIS fill of poodlepuppyhood:faint:


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## Raven's Mom (Mar 18, 2014)

The crazy thing is Raven can do what Lilly described at Petsmart! thats what I meant about her in "taining mode" versus walking the neighborhood. On a regular walk she starts out fairly good an continues to rev up as we go until she is insane by the time we are done. Don't most dogs calm down as they tire on a walk? Not Raven...we hiked once with my son and his ( then 6 mo old) GSD and Raven was ten times worse behaved and was still pulling after a couple miles! I have never experienced anything like how she acts on a walk and I've had larger dogs than her previously.

I did buy a book Lily_cdre recommended but it is very slow going. This is a hard time of year to me to find time to train but I am praying one day this will not be so miserable.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

You and Raven will get there. We are all on board with you, mashaphan and the OP to make sense out of walking with your poodles. It looks easy when done well, but it isn't easy to get there. Lily still has moments where she will pull like a freight train, but we also have ways to collect her head.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

It does sound miserable. Hauling you for miles? I'm sorry this is happening.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Raven's Mom, here is an off the wall question. What would have happened on the hike with you son and his dog if you had taken Raven's leash off (assuming it was in an area where you could)? When I let Lily or Javelin out of the truck in the driveway with no leash they generally just stick with me even though they know they aren't leashed. and if you think about heeling in obedience, most dogs do their better heeling off leash rather than on. For the heel free they have to think about the idea that they are supposed to stick with you and for the novice on leash heel there is no choice other than to sulk along and lag or get high and drag you along while they forge.

All of the ability that Javelin has to stick with me (on or off leash) comes from my playing and running away, letting him catch me and repeating and repeating and repeating during his forst summer and I still play run away games with him with his flirt pole too.


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## Raven's Mom (Mar 18, 2014)

Lilly, we were in a state park that required dogs to stay leashed. However, she will stay with me off leash at the dog park, which is a wooded 3 acres. I live on a corner lot on a very busy street so I do not test her at my house. At my mother's, because she is a quiet subdivision, I can let her out of car and she will stay in the yard. I can take her out to get mail or grab something from the car and she stay right with me. 

I need to practice more of the turn into an aways that the book describes, she still seems a bit confused about just watching body language as described in the book. I so wish I had a trainer I could talk to in person about it. Unfortunately, where I train you are on your own for a lot. I am just not that intuitive about training to troubleshoot by myself. I was so depressed after our disasterous foray into the Novice ring in Aug. that honestly I have been lax about getting back at it.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Brenda Aloff does a lot of touring and hands on workshops. Maybe your training facility could invite her. I went to one day of her two day workshop this year as an auditor, but in 2018 she is going back to the same place and I signed on for a working spot. I will decide when it is closer whether I will take Lily or Javelin for that. They each have things we need to work through, but different things. I guess I will have to decide who is annoying me more as the date approaches.

Raven's mom, I may have told you this story through PM, but let me tell it here for all to see. It might help some people who are having a hard time with tight leashes and bad behavior feel better and stop worrying that the light at the end of the tunnel is a train getting ready to mow you down. I always knew that once I had Lily I wanted to do performance obedience. We did a CGC class just before she turned one and passed the test right around her birthday. I then started going pretty faithfully to one or eve two novice classes a week for about a year. We had okay heeling, a stand for exam without too much wiggling and a very lively nice recall. Lily had no problems with the sit and down stays. I thought we were good to go and my club was having its traditional annual trial, so I entered. The trial was in a park, outside with trees and blowing breezes and bunny poop in the grass...Well now, silly me never practiced in a park and Lily thought it was all pretty odd, so when I took her leash off for the stand for exam she took off like she had been shot out of a cannon. She zoomed around the ring (thank god she didn't jump out since it is a huge park/arboretum) many times. I had to lie down on the grass to get her to slow down and come see what I was doing so I could get a hand on her collar. The judge told me never to come back to obedience, but that maybe eventually Lily would be an okay rally dog. I was mortified. I went and sat down by my crate and stared at the ground afraid that I would see people pointing and laughing if I looked up. A woman who i didn't know well at the time came over and put her hand on my shoulder and said "don't be embarrassed, every person here has at least one a story of a dog that did something like yours just did." Well she is right. Since then I have seen utility dogs who treated scent articles like retrieves. Utility dogs who run off with the glove and try to kill it. I once saw a dog in one ring waiting for the start of novice stays who jumped the ring gate when a dumbbell landed behind it in the next ring. It took the other dog's dumbbell back to the sit stay line up and was all set to hold that dumbbell through the sit and down if allowed. Me saying been there done that doesn't help any of you right now if your shoulder is sore from your dog pulling, but Lily doesn't do the zoomies anymore. The dog who stole the dumbbell now has a UD and all is good in the world. The light at the end of the tunnel isn't a train wreck headed your way. Patience and persistence will reveal it to be a nice walk with a contented dog by your side and a slack leash connecting you to each other.


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

Lily, thank you so much for that story!


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Lily,

Thank you for that story. I think it's important to share our worst moments because it's so easy for people to think, well of course your dog can do _____. My first service dog dragged me face first into a blackberry bush when chasing a squirrel. Noelle took a dump in the middle of Petco. Both dogs made me angry enough to cry and proud enough to cry. Don't give up. Lily is right. The light at the end of the tunnel isn't a train. It's a trained dog at your side walking along enjoying each other's company. We're here to help you get there. Promise.


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## galofpink (Mar 14, 2017)

Thanks for sharing your story with Lily, Catherine!

I think sometimes it is easy for us (newer to poodles and training people) to look at some of the training gurus on here and feel inadequate just by the accomplishments you have with your dog (not your demeanor). It's great to know that you are on our side and willing to help and walk us through the training items we have difficulties with. When you tell a story like that it really helps to see that even the best struggled at one point and yet they preserved and that's how you all got to where you are.


Like the many others, I have struggled with loose leash walking. 

With Rocky: IMO, he was a perfect angel at home and all other respects, but Rocky sure was difficult on walks. He too would be super stimulated especially by people passing by - tugging and pulling everywhere. He's still excitable by times, but not how he used to be. He was about 3 years old when all of a sudden walking beside me just clicked and his excitability level dropped. For us, staying on the same route every time really helped curb his excitability when he was younger. Also, I avoided asking him if he wanted to go for a walk or doing anything to alert him that we were going on a walk - just quickly attached the leash and went. The former approach always resulted in a key-ed up dog, even harder to handle. 

I don't practice walking with Shae enough, so she's still quite excitable at 7.5 months. I use a waist leash with her. That gives me two free hands to treat, get her attention and correct her positioning. It also absorbs the shock of her pulling if she decides to lunge. Obviously, the waist leash alone won't solve the issue, but I have found it to be an invaluable tool that allows me to not have to worry about juggling (dropping) the leash and trying to treat at the same time. I struggled through our first couple of training classes before switching to the waist leash, and that switch made a big difference for my confidence and the way Shae responded to me.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

I think loose leash walking was the most challenging thing for Lucky like what ClickNTreat said. Teaching tasks such as alerting me to sounds is a lot easier than loose leash walking. For the most part, if he does not have pent up energy, he heels quite well. If he thinks he is going to the dog park, loose leash walking goes out the door. It is surprising how easy it is to teach them heel but it is hard to enforce when there are distractions. So for instance, my dog will heel perfectly for class and especially if I have a treat. My trainer said a lot of dogs are 'ring trained' or used to doing certain behaviors in the same environments. These behaviors are harder to enforce when they are elsewhere. By this she means, dogs will only do certain behaviors the moment they step into the ring but are poorly behaved at home. She had worked with a lot of dogs who are wonderful show dogs but have behavioral issues at home. 

The question is, will your dog heel in unexpected environments such as walking past a dog park at peak hours. Not sure any dog can do this without adequate exercise before. I think heeling is very counter intuitive. It is like dieting with people. It is just too easy to pick up chips if you decide to walk down the junk food aisle. Sometimes the best way to do it is to set yourself up for success by avoiding stores that carry junk food all together until you are one day ready. Lol 

I do want to mention that tools like the front harness/gentle leader/easy walk harness are great to prevent pulling or lunging but they don't teach them not to pull. My trainer said I relied too much on it because it made me feel comfortable. When she told us to switch them off the gentle leader, they were pulling even harder than before. Of course, when I needed them to behave for a peaceful walk, it worked but I've found the martingale and proper training method most helpful.


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## Raven's Mom (Mar 18, 2014)

I appreciate the encouragement from everyone! I get discouraged too easily, I guess. I have seen a few dogs (other than Raven) humiliate their owners at trials too!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I don't think I know any performance trainers who don't have at least one story of utter hopeless humiliation. Our dogs can make us very humble, can't they?


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

I am going through a hard time with my LGD puppy who is nothing like owning her predecessor of the same breed;however, I got my previous dog as a senior so I've never experienced the delightful giant adolescent puppy phase. So I go on LGD forums to check out other puppies around the same age and OMG I immediately feel better! One of these stories involve a funny 100 lb puppy who dragged his owner down the street like a kite because he freaked out after stepping in poo and when they returned home her pup jumped on her bed to get it off. See it could be so much worse! Whatever difficulty you are going through, the positive side is it is definitely an experience and perhaps it will make great stories later in life. Reading other people's horror stories reminds me that the training isn't failing but it just requires more patience. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## snowflakeonahill (May 2, 2021)

Tipz said:


> I have a 7.5 month spoo. He's got the most amazing personality, loves absolutely everyone and every dog. He thinks everyone is his best friend and will get so excited when he sees anyone.
> He jumps up on people all the time. He's so bouncy and excited. I can get friends to hold him from jumping up but I have no idea what I'm supposed to do with strangers who see him walking and get all excited and riled up.
> He comes when I call him but he's still Horrendous on a leash. He's just too excited about exploring and running and moving around that he will pull and pull and pull. I've got a silk martingale collar on him, when I adjust it and move it up he does much better but as soon as he puts his head down at all it slides back down the neck and doesn't stay tight.
> In a dream world I'd be able to keep using this though as I'd love to be able to grow him out and I know any other collars destroy the hair but I'm kind of just at the point of being like screw it. He can't stay this crazy on walks.
> I've gotten him to heal nicely in the backyard with treats, he does well but as soon as we're out and about he's super stimulated and couldn't care less about the treats. Generally by the end of his walks he's calmed down and will walk nicely since he got all his crazies out but he's still a nightmare for the first 3/4 of the walk. I don't know how to get him to just stay calm when walking. He's So freaking excited and in love with everything and it's hard because I don't want to get mad at him for being happy and loving but I don't know how to deal with it either. Generally I just deal with the pulling but I know that's a horrible solution, I'm also getting my cast from my broken wrist off soon and I'm scared to not have the protection of the cast to hold it in place while he's pulling like a mad man...


 Hi I read many of the replies here. Much good advice. 20 plus years of training here. One of my spoos insisted on pulling. I had to buy the no pull harness. Someone mentioned it, don't mean to repeat. Worked like a charm. It kinda trips them, without harm, after a bit she got it. Do not use a pinch collar until 1. Adult. Growing body parts. 2. Has no pulling concept. Best to use on a dog that likes to charge if a dog is near. But knows how to walk, collar like that makes a point used responsibly is good. 
Jumping on people the easiest thing to do is step on leash and teach down command. 
Your dog is smart and fun loving. Keep up the good work. Be patient and consistent and your dog will learn what is expected. Think small steps everyday. For some reason I even started losing my marbles with my young poodles. Totally different training then shepherd's or Doberman. I think they are just sensitive and don't want to do wrong or disappointment you and they just want to party like it's 1999.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

snowflakeonahill said:


> Hi I read many of the replies here. Much good advice. 20 plus years of training here. One of my spoos insisted on pulling. I had to buy the no pull harness. Someone mentioned it, don't mean to repeat. Worked like a charm. It kinda trips them, without harm, after a bit she got it. Do not use a pinch collar until 1. Adult. Growing body parts. 2. Has no pulling concept. Best to use on a dog that likes to charge if a dog is near. But knows how to walk, collar like that makes a point used responsibly is good.
> Jumping on people the easiest thing to do is step on leash and teach down command.
> Your dog is smart and fun loving. Keep up the good work. Be patient and consistent and your dog will learn what is expected. Think small steps everyday. For some reason I even started losing my marbles with my young poodles. Totally different training then shepherd's or Doberman. I think they are just sensitive and don't want to do wrong or disappointment you and they just want to party like it's 1999.


This is an old thread, so I’m going to close it to further replies to prevent any confusion. But I hope you’ll continue to share your training experience with us.


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