# Standard Poodle Life Expectancy?



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Forgive me for bringing up this hard subject, but recently I’ve seen a lot of talk of spoos dying quite young. The AKC says 10-18 years, but I’ve been assuming 12-14 is closer to average based on other sources. Is that totally unrealistic?


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## Fenris-wolf (Apr 17, 2018)

I have seen this too, and wonder why this is happening. I think that Standard Poodles can live to be 18, but I think that 12-14 years is becoming the norm for different reasons. The same thing is happening with Australian Shepherds as well, and other dog breeders.


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Forgive me for bringing up this hard subject, but recently I’ve seen a lot of talk of spoos dying quite young. The AKC says 10-18 years, but I’ve been assuming 12-14 is closer to average based on other sources. Is that totally unrealistic?


Seems like both can be true. Like 10-18 seems too broad (and too old on the top end) to be an average, so it must be a range. I doubt there are a ton of 18+ poodles, but I've known several 16-17 year olds. 12-14 seems like the average. I would guess that on the younger end of the 10-18 range they aren't counting accidents or really rare illnesses, but more like health issues that are common as "old age" for poodles. 

Or are you wondering whether even 12-14 seems optimistic given the stories of dogs dying young?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Oonapup said:


> Seems like both can be true. Like 10-18 seems too broad (and too old on the top end) to be an average, so it must be a range. I doubt there are a ton of 18+ poodles, but I've known several 16-17 year olds. 12-14 seems like the average. I would guess that on the younger end of the 10-18 range they aren't counting accidents or really rare illnesses, but more like health issues that are common as "old age" for poodles.
> 
> Or are you wondering whether even 12-14 seems optimistic given the stories of dogs dying young?


Yeah, I’m wondering if what I believed to be true (12-14 average) is way high.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

12-14 is what I would say as well, but cancer can occur earlier. A lot of dogs eventually die of cancer or other illness, and there can be many factors that contribute to the course these illnesses take. I think it is very uncommon for a standard poodle to reach ages over 15. Simply because most larger dogs don't.


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Yeah, I’m wondering if what I believed to be true (12-14 average) is way high.


Maybe that's why the range is more realistic? My sense is when someone asks about life expectancy for any dog breed, they are asking "what is old for a dog of this breed"? And you'd be excluding certain things that prevent a dog from reaching old age, unless those things are so common to the breed as to bring the whole life expectancy down.


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> 12-14 is what I would say as well, but cancer can occur earlier. A lot of dogs eventually die of cancer or other illness, and there can be many factors that contribute to the course these illnesses take. I think it is very uncommon for a standard poodle to reach ages over 15. Simply because most larger dogs don't.


I've learned this about large dogs but I still find it sort of surprising, since my first family dog growing up was a very large afghan hound who lived to be 16 or 17. Those sighthounds are from another world and gene pool though, compared to the really big boned Berneses and Bernards and Great Danes, and so I'd imagined that poodles were a little closer to the sighthounds in life expectancy.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

I agree that 12 - 14 is the best estimate for standard poodles.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

I have noticed that too PtP 

One of the things I liked from Annie's breeder was an older stud dog. Simply in that if a dog is still healthy at age 8+, it's progeny are likely to be too.

I was scarred from the experience of a relative who co-owned a dog who was to be bred and died of virulent cancer at age 3, with another dog from the same breeder that she owned dying at 8 or 9. If my relative had been more on top of completing health testing, he likely would have been bred a few times before he died. Gorgeous dog.

There is some evidence from the VGL studies (and it makes a lot of sense) that the lower genetic COI dogs are living longer. I looked for a low COI with Annie, did not understand about Wycliffe, so she is more inbred than I would like when I look at her Wycliffe %>

Somewhere on here is an old thread where Arreau mentions seeing spoos life expectancy decrease in her lifetime.


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## Piper 2020 (Aug 16, 2020)

My last three dogs died of cancer: a standard Poodle at age 12, a Bichon at age 5, and a Sheltie at age 12. I even tried the target cell cancer treatment for the Bichon with no luck. I just hope they eradicate cancer in my lifetime.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

It's easier to see 12-14 years as the median than the mean. An actuarial table showing what % of spoos die by age would be helpful, and perhaps the Dog Aging Project will produce one. As for the source of this impression, posts here are skewed as people come for information and advice when faced with unexpected illness, but my vet's office also noticed a spike in pet deaths over the last year during the pandemic.

ETA: this posts meanders, and I clearly need my morning cuppa!


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

Liz said:


> It's easier to see 12-14 years as the median than the mean. An actuarial table showing what % of spoos die by age would be helpful, and perhaps the Dog Aging Project will produce one. As for the source of this impression, posts here are skewed as people come for information and advice when faced with unexpected illness, but my vet's office also noticed a spike in pet deaths over the last year during the pandemic.
> 
> ETA: this posts meanders, and I clearly need my morning cuppa!


I hope your right about some of the posts being skewed. Longevity is one of the characteristics that pushed SPOOs to the top if my list. There are many fine breeds out there I wouldn't even consider because I couldn't handle losing my best friend at 7 or 8. Doesn't really matter because Happy is going to live forever.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

A lot of the statistics I see for poodle longevity lump all three varieties in together. Large dogs simply don't live as long as small dogs, on average; conflating the statistics would almost certainly give a false picture.

That being said, I think many purebred dogs are seeing a decrease in life expectancy. When I was a kid it was pretty typical for large breeds like labs to make it to 12. I was shocked the first time I heard of a friend's large dog, a borzoi, dying at age 7. Now it seems like lots of large dogs don't even make it to age 10, let alone 12.

I think the current trend of breeding spoos to be larger, combined with the Mid-century bottlenecks, probably aren't helping breed longevity.


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## curlflooffan (Mar 27, 2020)

I think that longevity needs to be given greater attention in the discussions around breeding, even more so than health tests. 

Not that health tests are not important, they are. But they only give specific information on specific things. Longevity is a different and more complex thing to achieve. 

I do lean towards the suggestion of not breeding males while they are young. If you do wait until they are at least 5 years old you do at least select away from those who die really young.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Sire age is an interesting thing. There is research that shows that older sires produce offspring with better longevity. It has to do with telomeres on the sperm cell chromosomes. They get longer as a dog ages which then means the offspring ages slower. Really cool research.

On the flip side an older animal's sperm cells are more prone to genetic mutations so that could have a negative effect as well.

But generally I think a push to use older sires is a good thing. Misha's sire was 5. I don't know if that qualifies as old but it's decent I think. Older sires means you have a better chance of knowing they don't have health issues as well.

Here is a paper








Telomere Length Correlates with Life Span of Dog Breeds


Telomeric DNA repeats are lost as normal somatic cells replicate. When telomeres reach a critically short length, a DNA damage signal is initiated, in…




www.sciencedirect.com





And an article








How older Stud dogs can change the world


A case for using older stud dogs and improving semen quality. Using an older stud dog wouldn't typically be the most desired thing to do because semen quality isn't generally at its best. The proportion of normal sperm is higher in young dogs than in older ones(1) and logically this is why...




www.balanced-canine.com


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

For Want of Poodle said:


> There is some evidence from the VGL studies (and it makes a lot of sense) that the lower genetic COI dogs are living longer. I looked for a low COI with Annie, did not understand about Wycliffe, so she is more inbred than I would like when I look at her Wycliffe %>


In the 1970s and 80s I had standard poodles who were Wycliffe/Bel Tor crosses. They typically lived to 15 years of age and were generally very healthy. However, my #1 best beloved dog, Jaylee Charley Black, died at just 4 years of age during a tonsillectomy. My vet, who was distraught about his dying during the procedure, did an autopsy and discovered that he had what is known as juvenile kidneys - abnormally small kidneys. There was a possible cause - when he was being shown on the West Coast, I learned that his handler was giving him a drug to "calm" him. This was a big boy who was usually shown by my teenage daughter. You would think that a professional handler would be able to handle a dog who was successfully handled by a child! Sadly, I did not find out about his being drugged until after he passed.

I once bred him to his full sister - all the puppies lived normal, happy lives. Note that such a close breeding was done because these dogs were themselves the result of an outcross breeding. 

I think the reason so many dogs die young is because they are exposed to so many toxins in their environments.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

Forever 😭 😭 😭


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## CieCie (Dec 27, 2020)

When we brought Indigo home almost 15 years ago we were told 14 to 16. I appreciated that as a decent goal and despite cancer of a toe and the last digit of her tail she lived a lovely and relatively healthy life. She was always slight and at 24" and 44 lbs the perfect size. She was diagnosed with degenerative myelopathy mid February 2020 5 months shy of her 14th birthday and we had her with us 6 more weeks. I'm always so sad for the families that loose a pup early. There are so many more memories to be made!
As an aside comment about the observation on sire age...Indigo's sire was 7 and our current pup's sire is 6. Hopefully that bodes well for her future.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

My biggest regret with Peggy is that I didn’t ask the age of her sire. I met him. He was wonderful. But...he was still practically a baby himself, and I had no idea.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

PeggyTheParti said:


> My biggest regret with Peggy is that I didn’t ask the age of her sire. I met him. He was wonderful. But...he was still practically a baby himself, and I had no idea.


It's so so hard when you're looking at breeders before you have a lot of experience judging them. And it's also important to remember that no breeder is perfect, no line is perfect, and no dog is perfect. Fate brings us together and we make the best of our new joint life. I see no point in regretting things really, but you can keep note of things you would like to do differently in the future without feeling badly about past choices. I think Peggy is so so lucky to have you as her parents because you've allowed her to blossom into a wonderful dog.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Raindrops said:


> It's so so hard when you're looking at breeders before you have a lot of experience judging them. And it's also important to remember that no breeder is perfect, no line is perfect, and no dog is perfect. Fate brings us together and we make the best of our new joint life. I see no point in regretting things really, but you can keep note of things you would like to do differently in the future without feeling badly about past choices. I think Peggy is so so lucky to have you as her parents because you've allowed her to blossom into a wonderful dog.


A really good, much-appreciated perspective. Thank you.  Really I should be focusing on my gratitude rather than regret. I wouldn’t trade her for anything.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Well I've been watching this thread with my 12 year and 8 month old Lily and soon to be 6 year old Javelin trying to figure out why all of you are obsessing (seemingly) with how long your dog is going to live. Just enjoy your days with each other. We just said good bye to our 12 year old GSD Peeves. We are still grieving now that he is gone. I would be feeling really stupid now if I hadn't purposefully made sure to enjoy each day we had together. This isn't to say that I have fantastical notions that Lily and Javelin will live forever. I'm a realist who will deal with old age, illness and end of life decisions when they become necessary, but in the meantime we will live happy days.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Here's to long lived poodles! Elroy's Dam (Macy) and Sire (Maslow) were 2½ & 5½ respectively.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

When you’re fresh off the loss of a beloved dog, it is something that comes to mind. I had done the research, but when we were picking Buck up, DH couldn’t resist asking our breeder. (Our last Scottie, was his heart dog.) She said, “When your poodle is over ten you might consider planning for another”. And then she gave the general age range:12-14. You can probably say that about every breed, except for the Giants and the littles. You need to plan for the littles in your will, if you are a certain age and plan for heartbreak too soon with a Giant.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

Sorry to hear of Jeeves passing. Our GSD made it to 16 years, but we should have let him go earlier. He was such a fighter; always rallying at the last minute to hang on for a bit longer. Kudos to you for knowing when it was time for Jeeves to go. Our little female (22'', 32 lbs.) was 15 when we let her go and she was spunky to the end. Sailor is now 15; and the brothers will be 7 in June. I think terrorizing them is what has kept Sailor going. There are no fights, but Sailor will periodically get in a mood and go on a hock snatching mission. The boys stay out of his way, ha-ha! By the way, the sire of the Jacknic brothers was ten when they were born. He had many titles before and after his name and lived to be in his mid teens.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I am not sure how I am feeling about Lily aging has much to do do with Peeves (please not Jeeves passing) but more to do with her excellent health checks and eager activity levels. We have done 6 trials in three of the weekends since April 10th as of Sunday. She isn't tired, but I sure am. She is not huge and has always been slender which I think are in her favor, same goes for Javelin.

In terms of parameters that influence longevity, size, genetics, ages of sires this certainnly has been an interesting discussion. Ian Dunbar favors not breeding males before age 7 for many of the reasons put forth here.


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

Raindrops said:


> ...There is research that shows that older sires produce offspring with better longevity. It has to do with telomeres on the sperm cell chromosomes. They get longer as a dog ages which then means the offspring ages slower...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is a fascinating finding, and not only with dogs. It makes me think of the social evolution of humans combined with our longevity. Generalized, males are hardwired to be more attracted to younger females when their fertility is highest, while females are hardwired to be more attracted to males who are competent with some degree of high status - which takes time and age to develop. This way he can provide for her and offer her more protection. Yes, we can say this is the result of culture, but it holds true in all societies throughout history. Gradually through thousands of years, perhaps this is why our life expectancy is 70+ when living in an optimal environment. 

I liked the second article too on how breeders can stack the odds so their breed can gradually live longer by using only healthy older studs and feeding them a better diet to improve sperm quality. I think now of recent research showing that human sperm counts have declined in Europe and the US over the past several decades, and wonder how much junk and fast food played a role in this. 

Thank you for sharing these.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

My Spoo just turned 12 in April. Until about March he was still acting like he was 3. I had been expecting him to live to at least 16. Suddenly in the last month and a half he is having problems, not wanting to jump in or out of my SUV like normal, generally acting like he just doesn't feel great, having eye problems. He is my life! This is terrible.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

I'm sorry, Kontiki.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

kontiki said:


> My Spoo just turned 12 in April. Until about March he was still acting like he was 3. I had been expecting him to live to at least 16. Suddenly in the last month and a half he is having problems, not wanting to jump in or out of my SUV like normal, generally acting like he just doesn't feel great, having eye problems. He is my life! This is terrible.


. (((Hugs)))


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

So sorry your poodle is suddenly having not feeling well, Kontika. I hope it's just a phase and feels back to his old self soon.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I’m sorry Kontiki. If only they could live a few decades...


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

kontiki said:


> My Spoo just turned 12 in April. Until about March he was still acting like he was 3. I had been expecting him to live to at least 16. Suddenly in the last month and a half he is having problems, not wanting to jump in or out of my SUV like normal, generally acting like he just doesn't feel great, having eye problems. He is my life! This is terrible.


I’m sorry, @kontiki  Hoping he stabilizes and you can both get back to enjoying this chapter together.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

@kontiki Sorry to hear this. Hopefully he snaps out of it and gets back to normal soon.


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## daabor (Jan 31, 2019)

Unfortunately, I never thought to ask the age of Sammy's sire. I am very worried that his dam passed unexpectedly at 5 yrs. of age.

My step-sister has a rescued standard poodle that is 14 yrs. old ( guestimate). Roscoe ( her poodle) is still active and enjoying life. My step-sister did say recently, he seems to be losing his hearing. She is trying to prepare herself for his eventual lose ( not sure how that is done and she is having a hard time w/ his aging), but he seems fine atm. 

I had a beagle that lived to over 18, Still have an over-sized mini aussie who is 16 1/2. His younger brother is 14 and still acts like a puppy, at times. I don't do anything special, but have been blessed with healthy, long lived dogs.

My SIL had 4 golden retrievers that all crossed the rainbow bridge, due to cancer, before their 7th birthday.

My heart breaks for everyone that looses a cherished fur baby, regardless of age.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Thank you everyone. Even worse, he has been my service dog. I have already spent over $1,200 on trying to figure out what is wrong with his eyes and going out of state to specialists. He also is drinking about 5 times as much water as he used to. They have already tested for diabetes and kidney function. I have another out of state appointment with an internist specialist.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Oh I am so sorry to hear this Kontiki.


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