# AVMA nutrition study?



## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

One of the blog feeds I get referenced a canine nutrition myth study by AVMA, which I can't find, either in the mag referenced (which looks like a canine industry mag) nor on the AVMA site.

AVMA's Dog Food News: 7 Myth Busters | Dancing Dog Blog

Anyone seen this anywhere else?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I suspect it may be in one of the JAVMA regular columns, rather than the peer-reviewed research papers, which would explain why it does not show up on a search, and does not seem to have a full citation reference anywhere.

TBH, there really is nothing there to disagree too much with. Most people feed small quantities of carbohydrate etc, if only as part of treats. If commercial diets were not capable of meeting dogs' nutritional needs there would be a lot fewer dogs around. But as it only seems to be quoted in trade journals, it would be interesting to know who funded the research ...


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

The thing that interested me, that I wanted to read more on, was the "dogs have evolved to need small amounts of carbohydrates". That's a pretty bold statement, and I wanted to see what it was based on. Shocking lack of good nutritional studies in dogs!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

48 pairs seems to be 24 pairs ... and if this is the same study, it was funded by Nestle Purina, and reported way back in 2002
Dog-diet study

In May 2010 a Cornell Professor published a book on pet feeding, however - the reviews make for interesting reading!
Amazon.com: Feed Your Pet Right: The Authoritative Guide to Feeding Your Dog and Cat: Marion Nestle, Malden Nesheim: Books


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I'm not so sure I agree with their bold statement that dogs have evolved to need carbohydrates...Rather, it seems that dogs are carnivores with omnivorous capabilities (a scientific fact) allowing them to survive on a diet with carbs, for sure! 

*6. Myth: “All commercial dog foods are bad. Fact: Research has shown that commercial dog foods are more able to meet dogs’ nutritional needs.” - * I will agree that some commercial diets are better than others. Many commercial diets are able to meet most dogs' nutritional needs, but IMO not in the most natural or appropriate way.

*l. Myth: Dogs should only eat meat. Fact: Dogs as they have evolved today need a proportion of grains, vegetables and fruits to fulfil dietary needs. Granted they say only a small amount of oatmeal, pasta, or rice, etc. should be part of the diet. * This is false. Science shows that dogs and wolves are essentially the same, still. There is no proof that dogs have "evolved" to need a different diet. This is probably the statement that sticks out the most to me in this article as being inaccurate. Whole Dog Journal has an article I recently read (I think it may have been an older one) debunking this "myth" that dogs have evolved to "need" grains. Oh, and by the way, dogs shouldn't only eat meat. They should eat meat, bone and organ.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

It is interesting that the original research was into how much to feed, rather than what to feed, but that the advice to feed less does not seem to figure in the industry press releases! I agree, CM - they are very careful NOT to say that commercial diets offer the optimum diet for dogs, or what they are "more able" than - more able than table scraps? Than commercial foods of 10, 20, 50 years ago? And "small quantity of oatmeal, pasta, rice, etc" would definitely discount most commercial recipes!

I, too, am surprised at the lack of references and citations if this really were originally published in a reputable scientific journal - it reads as popular journalism, or PR press release.

I shall wake up my latent Librarian and research training, and dig a bit deeper ...


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Yes, it's the (intentional?) blurring of adequate vs optimal that bugged me too.


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## lcristi (Feb 27, 2011)

I thought that the way dogs in the wild got grains and vegetables etc. was pre-digested in the innards of their prey.
So it seems a little cooked is OK. But really-how do your dogs respond to raw meat and bones as opposed to say a commercial brand kibble?
Mine is absolutely jazzed on all of it. The more fragrant (uh smelly is in that category) the better.
She loves raw tripe and her coat is a testimony to its benefits.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Myth 6 isn't a complete sentence, as it fails to state the comparison group. "Fact: Research has shown that commercial dog foods are more able to meet dogs’ nutritional needs.” More able than what? Some readers assume non-commercial diet, i.e. homecooked or raw, because of the preceding sentence, but it's not clear. Rather than get all hot and bothered by this article, I moved on. On other points, I agree with FJM and JE.


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## lcristi (Feb 27, 2011)

I agree-A dogs nutritional needs have to be met. I was referring to those loaded with corn fillers. 
I use one of the no grain kibble - Orijens as a matter of fact and add "meat only" canned, raw and sometimes cooked sweet potato, brown rice ect.
By the way there is a brand of canned - Evangers -that cans wild salmon, duck, chicken, mackerel. The stuff is the real deal, smells great and is a great addition to dry food.
I buy organic beef liver and dry it for training.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Wild swing in thread topic, but what is the process for home-drying of liver for treats? Pls share!!


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## lcristi (Feb 27, 2011)

JE,
hi.
Did I write in the wrong thread? I'm so new to forums. Apologia...
Anyway,
Set your oven to 200º or 250º - bake or convection bake
you'll need a sheet pan with a rack - so air can circulate over and under the item to be dried - you can probably improvise w/a broiler rack
slice your liver maybe 1/2" thick or so *
place the strips on the rack making sure to leave some space between slices **
put the whole thing in the center of the oven
set you timer to 1 hour
it's time to turn the pieces over
set the timer for another hour
check the meat for consistency and add more time if necessary
*freeze the liver slightly before slicing it makes it easier to handle/slice
**the object here is to have the air circulate around the pieces of meat - but just a bit of space - not touching
for training purposes I like the meat to be softer - chewy so I can break off pieces and my dog can swallow them easily
I use organic beef because I personally don't trust the "beef industry" and i can get easily from a local certified farmer
It's the ultimate "gold" treat
Try chicken hearts as well
Good Luck! Let me know how you make out.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

No, no, no, you did nothing, it was me hijacking the thread.

Thanks so much! Will try it out this weekend. I expect to have a captive poodle audience as the scent of slowly roasting liver fills the house :smile:.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

You will, believe me! Camped out in front of the oven waiting hopefully ...!


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