# Groomer cut off all her hair!!! ?



## NicoleMCooper (Jan 2, 2014)

Hello,

I am highly upset! I took little Paris for her first grooming today and they cut off all her hair because she was supposedly "matted" when I had just brushed her and gave her a bath with a nice blowout two days ago! She was not matted! Even if she was, all they had to do was take their time and brush out the kinks. They didn't even cut her hair evenly. It looked as if they just cut her with their eyes closed. They also did not properly cut her nails--she keeps scratching and cutting me every time she touches me. Here I thought I had made a good choice by going to this business after seeing the reviews and having heard of the horror stories from Petco, Petsmart, etc....Even worse--all of this was $70. ? I want to start grooming her myself now. I just don't know what's best? Or what to get or how to even get started! Any suggestions?! 


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## NicoleMCooper (Jan 2, 2014)

This is the cut. ?


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## Rachel76 (Feb 3, 2014)

Well I don't have tips for grooming and I do see what you mean about the cut not looking very even (although she still looks very sweet). Good luck doing it yourself, I plan on grooming my own dog too.


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## kcp1227 (Jan 25, 2013)

Make sure when you brush her that you are getting down to the skin. Use a comb. I will not dematt a puppy for its first groom. I want their experience to be good and limit the stress, so if she was matted, I understand why they didn't brush them out. Did they tell you when you dropped her off that she would have to be cut short? I always tell my customers if I can't save the hair. 


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## Emmerz (Mar 13, 2014)

So sorry that you aren't happy with the groomer's service. I bet it's very frustrating--especially because you spent all of that money. I can't give any pointers or tips for grooming, but I wish you luck. Oh, and even if her groom is uneven, she still looks *adorable!* Sorry to hear about your upsetting experience.


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## NicoleMCooper (Jan 2, 2014)

kcp1227 said:


> Make sure when you brush her that you are getting down to the skin. Use a comb. I will not dematt a puppy for its first groom. I want their experience to be good and limit the stress, so if she was matted, I understand why they didn't brush them out. Did they tell you when you dropped her off that she would have to be cut short? I always tell my customers if I can't save the hair.
> 
> 
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Yes they looked at her and everything and they didn't say anything about that. I also brought a picture of how I wanted her to look. They looked at her and said that was no problem at all. I even called during the time of her being groomed (I had a casting call) to check and see how everything was going--they said she looked great, it was going good and she's almost done. &#55357;&#56852; They also told me it would be $50 to $55 maybe $60.


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## NicoleMCooper (Jan 2, 2014)

Thank you very much! 

Nicole Cooper


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## NicoleMCooper (Jan 2, 2014)

Emmerz said:


> So sorry that you aren't happy with the groomer's service. I bet it's very frustrating--especially because you spent all of that money. I can't give any pointers or tips for grooming, but I wish you luck. Oh, and even if her groom is uneven, she still looks *adorable!* Sorry to hear about your upsetting experience.


It's ok! Well, thank you very much anyways!


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## NicoleMCooper (Jan 2, 2014)

Rachel76 said:


> Well I don't have tips for grooming and I do see what you mean about the cut not looking very even (although she still looks very sweet). Good luck doing it yourself, I plan on grooming my own dog too.


Thank you very much!  good luck to you as well! 

Nicole Cooper


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Remember, the hair will grow out. This is just temporary. You can clip her yourself but it helps if you can watch someone else or at least watch a video. Youtube has lots of videos and there are books. Get all the info you can. Then buy a clipper, some good scissors, and combs. When I first started clipping my poodle I would take him to a professional groomer every so often to neaten him up. When I picked him up she would give me tips on what I was doing wrong. It is a learning process.


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## NicoleMCooper (Jan 2, 2014)

kcp1227 said:


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Another picture of her cut.


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## loves (Jul 2, 2013)

Since I didn't/can't put hands on her, no idea what shape her coat actually was in. Honestly, I never believe an owner when they tell me the dog's coat is in good condition. I have been pleasently surprised by some, and give the owner tons of praise for a great job, but more often the dog is pelted under a smooth layer of hair. What picture did you show them? What did you tell them? "don't make her look like a poodle?" or "I want her short" "as short as you can get her" Some groomers just hear the words and don't think. I'd be shaving dogs with a 40 blade reverse if I did what over half my customers tell me "cut her as short as you can get her". As for the groom not looking the best, it was her first and she is a puppy. How long did you wait before getting her groomed? Obviously you never even had face and feet done, and who knows how she behaved getting her nails trimmed. 

So from now until the next groom, which really should be within 6-8 weeks, keep COMBING through her coat and brushing it lightly (because it is so short). Yes she still needs regular grooming because in 6-8 weeks the coat will have grown at least 1/2" and now it can start being shaped into a nice looking groom and she will adjust to the grooming process.

Talk to people you see with good looking dogs, ask who their groomer is, and ask around. It will grow fast and is easily fixed. So sorry you are disappointed.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

NicoleMCooper said:


> Yes they looked at her and everything and they didn't say anything about that. I also brought a picture of how I wanted her to look. They looked at her and said that was no problem at all. I even called during the time of her being groomed (I had a casting call) to check and see how everything was going--they said she looked great, it was going good and she's almost done. �� They also told me it would be $50 to $55 maybe $60.


Well then something _really_ does not add up! I hope you let the groomer know how dismayed and dissatisfied you were. And speaking of not adding up, I think they should refund at least a portion of the grooming fee. Perhaps the difference between what was quoted and what they charged. 

Your little Paris is absolutely precious!


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

She still looks adorable but the hair cut does looks a bit messy. If you are not happy with the groom take her back and show them. Maybe they will refund your money or give you a free groom next time. It is always best to voice your opinions to the groomer. Maybe it was a busy day for her and she had to rush. She should at least be able to fix it up and make it look a bit smoother. If that doesn't help talk to the salon manager about how you were unhappy with the groom. And remember when you are brushing her you want to split the hair all the way to the skin and then brush all the way down to the skin. If you can't pull a comb through the hair after brushing she is not brushed out properly and there are probably still tangles/mats in her fur. 


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Does not matter if you Love it or Hate it, it won't last long. 

What is most important is how your pup was treated IMHO.

I think she looks cute, not perfect, I would not be happy either. I don't understand the change in cost . You should talk to a manager.

You can do your own grooming and save a lot of $$$ . Good Luck !


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm so sorry that you're not happy with the results of her groom! I'm a little scared to say this as many seem to agree that the groom looks bad, but I think she looks good! A bit rough, but pretty on par for a puppy's first time, especially if there were mats. I know you don't think there were, but from a groomer's perspective the only reason I would have to charge extra and go shorter than the client wanted would be if the dog were matted. There's really no other reason, short of the groomer being a straight-up liar. It's possible, so trust your gut. The truth is, we groomers make more money on longer haircuts that require more frequent visits than short ones that keep the dogs away for months at a time. I don't know where the idea that groomers are clipper-happy comes from! When we shave down a dog in spite of an owner's desire for length, it's always for one reason; the dog's best interest. So, if they seemed kind and well-intentioned, then Paris was probably too tangled to have the cut you wanted this time. 

They do lose points for not being able to quote you accurately or give you the proper expectations, but I've been there myself. Sometimes a dog is way more matted than they initially seemed, or the mats that I thought would come out easily turn out to be very stubborn. Also, the small amount of tangles that I might assume to be no big deal, I find out are a very big deal for the sensitive dog (especially a puppy) and just shaving them off is the kindest thing for the dog. It's perfectly fair that they charge more for the extra work of dematting on any dog, let alone a likely nervous puppy. It's still a bit unfair that they didn't quote you for that, but they're human, too, and obviously misjudged the situation. In the picture where she's up on her hind legs, do I see that her the inside of her left leg is shaved really short, up by her armpit? Or is that just the leash blocking my view or something? It just looks like exactly the area that would be shaved right down to remove armpit mats that are spreading down the leg, a very common area for mats to hide from dog owners (but not groomers!). It might be indicative that there was a bit more matting going on than meets the eye.

Also remember, that expense is relative among people and groomers. I had a client become very irate because her dog was $7 more than expected, while most of them still add a tip and even apologize to *me* when their dog is extra! So the groomers may not have even realized how you'd feel about the pricing and were likely simply trying to earn a fair amount for their efforts. Perhaps if you tell them that you weren't anticipating the price and would like a refund or credit, they'll be understanding. Do so kindly! : )

I'm just assuming that these groomer's are honest and competent, though I'm aware it may not be the case. As the saying goes, I like to "assume mistake before malice". If you treat the groomer with respect and appreciation for their efforts, and ask them sincerely for an explanation of why Paris' groom wasn't done to your expectations, you're likely to get a sincere and helpful answer. If you assume the groomers did a "bad job" and treat them as such, they're likely to be defensive and leave you without much to go on. As far as making the situation better from here, perhaps you could ask them if they can smooth over her cut again in the next few days, or attempt to file her nails a bit more. Often puppies reach a point where there's just no more they can take in a single session. But after a few days the stickie-outies can rough nails can be revisited. I don't charge extra for touch-ups a few days after a groom, and even tell my clients that it's free and call my new clients the day after their first groom to ensure that the cut is still up to snuff. *But*, I and many other groomers are very wary of people trying to get "freebies". A good way to bring this up to the groomer is to say "Would it cost me anything to have her neatened up in a day or two? She's got a few big stickie-outies and her nails are a bit sharp." They'll likely offer to touch her up for free, but at least this way you'll have put them at ease that you're not upset with them or expecting freebies. If they want to charge for that, then it's your choice, but I'd pass on it and find another groomer. It would be a really easy way for them to patch things up with you, and if you're as kind and gracious as you can be about your dissatisfaction, and they still don't try to meet you in the middle, then they're not concerned with making you happy. End game. 

Finally, as *Carley's Mom* said, the most important thing is that Paris is treated well! Her appearance comes second, and you will have an infinite supply of new hair throughout her life! : ) You will have so much fun with her future grooming, either at a salon or at home!!


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## janet6567 (Mar 11, 2014)

After my long time groomer retired, I tried several in our area and just wasn't pleased, so I have just started grooming my two toys. I watched numerous videos on YouTube. I purchased some good "professional" clippers with interchangeable blades (Andis) and some curved shears for trimming top knot. I used my Dremel on low to "file" their nails and round off the tips. It took me nearly 3 hours per dog the first time I groomed them, but they looked much better than they did after being groomed by a couple of the groomers we've tried. After two grooms, I had saved enough money to pay for the clippers and shears. I actually enjoyed working with my "girls." I just took my time and gave them frequent breaks. So much better than taking them to the groomer where they stay all day kenneled with many other dogs!


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## My babies (Aug 14, 2012)

So sorry you are upset with the 1st groom. I was very upset with my Gucci's boy first groom at Petco too. I'm too embarrassed to even post his pic. He didnt even look like my Gucci. But it will grow back. But as far as pricing I agree that it's fine for them to put up a price range but you should be given the exact price at drop off after they look at your pup. After that groom with Petco I found a wonderful groomer. She even told me up front that she will charge extra if my poodles are extremely hard to work with. And I'm fine with that but the price was given to me up front. No hidden charges.


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## loves (Jul 2, 2013)

It is hard to give an "exact price" even at drop off. You don't know how the dog will behave and often more matting is discovered than you noticed previously. It is not like the dog was a regular 6-8 week customer. Those prices don't change, because you know how long the groom will take, and if one groom takes a bit longer I don't charge more on regulars, you make it up when the groom goes quick and easy. Now, if a dog comes in and takes a lot longer more than once, then it is time to change frequency of appointments, length of hair, or increase price. I normally quote high on new unknown customers because it is always nice to quote $60-70 and then charge less than the $60 when I am pleasantly surprised by the ease of groom. I quote for worse case scenerio because it is easy to go down but as noted here, people don't like it when you quote the charge for a regular client and then find out their dog takes twice as long.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

It is hair and it will grow. Lily has been "naked" every summer and quite full of coat every winter. Puppies can be squirmy so it is more important that she didn't get rough handled than that it is a great looking trim. You should go back and tell them about what you are disappointed with and maybe they can neaten her up at a discount (or free). PammiPoodle does great grooming, so I would listen to her advise about all this. Also I can certify from my own experience that unless you use a comb and can see skin free and clear there are mats. In the winter of 2012/13 when we were recovering from hurricane Sandy and had no power or heat for two weeks, Lily spent a lot of time wearing sweaters and she ended up a horrible mess. Taking it down was like shearing a sheep. My friend and I took the clippers to her out in my back yard and her coat came off in sheets. Now she has a lovely long coat again (no mats this year either). Your little pup is still very cute, and will be beautifully poodley and sophisticated in no time!


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## Poodlelvr (Mar 13, 2010)

I would be hugely unhappy, if I had to pay for that kind of groom. Depending of the time and patience you have it might be worth it to try grooming yourself. I am back to doing my own grooming, because my favorite groomer decided to be a stay at home mom with her first baby. I am not as skilled as she was, but at least my two are presentable. My scissoring skills aren't great, but I could have done a much better job on your pup's face and topknot. She may have been very wiggly, but that second photo doesn't look very professional.

There is a super video by PammiPoodle on a current thread called "How Can I Win" or something very much like that, that teaches how to get your pup to accept the grooming process. I wish I had seen something like that when mine were pups.

One of the advantages to do-it-yourself grooming is that it can be done in small steps with treats and breaks for all. I think that makes it less stressful for all concerned. There are some fine video stickies at the top of the grooming thread and more on U Tube. And even if you make a mistake, the hair will grow back very quickly.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

i think you just got a groomer who is not very good. if they looked at your dog and gave you a price, a good groomer would have known if there were mats, pointed that out to you and adjusted the price as well as your expectations accordingly. the first time i took my dog in (he's a lowchen and was being kept in show cut, though he's not a show dog), the person doing the booking looked at him and pointed out that he had mats behind his ear (where he had been scratching and i had missed brushing him out) and they might have to "cut holes." 

if you want to keep using that particular grooming service, talk to them about what happened. gently, but talk to them - it's the only way to find out how they view the dogs and whether they are worth the bother. otherwise, plan on finding someone else. yes, the coat will grow back and yes you have to do the right thing to maintain it, but, no, your dog doesn't have to take the hit for an inept groomer.


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## Dallasminis (Feb 6, 2011)

Well, the good news is they grow out so fast! Annnnd, she is a little cutie-pie no matter WHAT! Everyone is giving good grooming advice. I just wanted to say how cute she looks anyway....she's just adorable!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

As others have said unless you were combing to the skin it is likely your dog was matted. It is very common for new poodle owners to not comb to the skin so their dog gets matts. The most important thing about the first grooming is that it is a positive experience for the dog. If the groomer tried to comb out a matted puppy this could give the dog life long issues with grooming. My groomer warned me for his first grooming that Swizzle came first and the first groom might look a little off. You dog has some whisps but it doesn't look bad. Puppy's are also notoriously touchy about having their feet touched. Clipping a tiny toy puppy is not easy. You may have a very good groomer doing what is best for your dog. I would work on getting your dog use to having his feet touched and comb him. If you spend just a few minutes a day it is easy on the dog and you. Your puppy is absolutely adorable.


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## dianaloren (Jan 6, 2014)

Sorry for the bad experience. I can relate. The first time we took our pup to the groomer something similar happened. She was a rescue and was legitimately matted on her legs. I very specifically told the groomer " shave her legs, but please don't shave her anywhere else" 

Before her appointment, I had gone through her hair with a comb down to the skin, and I could get through her back and head area just fine - it was just the legs that were a problem. When I picked her up later that day, I was horrified because they shaved her all over, even in places that she didn't need it.

Her precious little top knot got chopped. They cut some hair off her ears for no reason. When they shaved her snout, they shaved from the snout all the way down the neckline. She also had razor burn on her snout and a rash all over her belly. Then they stuck a funny feather on top of her head and knotted it into her hair. To top it all off, my pup seemed seriously stress out when I picked her up.

The second grooming (at a different place) was great, The groomer worked with the hair she had left, fluffed it, and shaped what was left of her top knot into a nice little mound. The dog seemed in good spirits when we picked her up.

I think I have realized that some places that are advertised as "pet groomers" are really just about bathing, clipping nails, and shaving hair. I think it takes a bit of an artistic touch to do a poodle. And seems like some places just don't do poodles well.

If they were going to shave her all over, I would have at least appreciated a call.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

I normally don't complain I just don't come back, because it's like complaining about my food at a restaurant, they can spit on it if it's a trashy place, I'd be afraid that because I complained I'd be consider the "bitch" and not just my bitch(dog) LOL pun intended! and that the groomer would take it out on my puppy, like mistreat her... 
So I'd never come back, and if I felt like it , I'd tell the manager, but still never come back if you think the groomer lied/misled/withheld info/mistreated/unprofessional etc... Now if it's just a matter of it being my dog's first time there, and the groomer needs to "learn" how I like her haircut, that's fine, we just learn as we go... I draw on the picture of the dog lines of where to cut and motes on how long, etc (example attached)

Now I absolutely agree that sometimes it can be the owners fault (accidentally) . It happened to me. When I first got my Spoo I brushed her everyday, but didn't notice that the brush was not going through all the way to the skin. So she was completely matted on the skin level and the ends of the hair looked pretty!!! My bad! So I learned my lesson bought an excellent comb and a new brush and was taught how to brush all the way to the skin  

Good luck dear! Whatever you decide to do about the groomer, the hair will grow back and I hope you have a great experience with you baby's next groom.

Ps. I decided to groom my poodles myself too  

Here , a couple examples of how I give a groomer instructions 



















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## PoodleFoster (May 25, 2013)

hi
i'm sorry about your dissatisfaction of the groom. It's hard to improve or ad to the great advice that you've already been given. I would echo those who suggest contacting the shoppe manager and express your concerns. You have a right to know how the groom was managed. A good shoppe owner/manager will remedy the situation. You did your homework and took your little one to a reputable shoppe. they must be doing something right in order to gain a good reputation!
I am a proponent of contacting the groomer and expressing your concerns. A good groomer would want to know how to improve.
I wish you courage and a firm tone if you decide to contact the establishment. 
good luck


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## My babies (Aug 14, 2012)

Lou said:


> Here , a couple examples of how I give a groomer instructions
> 
> View attachment 137698
> 
> ...


Lou these are the cutest pics. What a great idea. No groomer can get this wrong


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

My babies said:


> Lou these are the cutest pics. What a great idea. No groomer can get this wrong



Aw thanks dear!!!!!! These are just a couple .. I have more !!! Hehehehe  but my one and only perfect groomer is Ellyisme (poodleforum name) such incredible talent! Unfortunately we moved out-of-state so Im going to groom them myself 
Thanks again  I'm glad u like the photos 


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## brownlikewoah (May 3, 2012)

Sorry you had a bad experience, but the haircut doesn't look that bad in my opinion. All soft puppy coat when it gets shaved looks like that. It sounds like your groomer had poor communication, they should have told you at the beginning that your dog was matted, and show you where the matting was to help you understand. I would have charged the same price for this cut, since they quoted you a lower price, there is a good chance that the additional was from the mat removal, it takes extra time to work through, can be dangerous since you're dealing with wiggly puppies, thin skin and tight matting, and is more wear and tear on our equipment. Instead of getting mad at the groomer for shaving your dog, I would take this as an opportunity to ask a groomer you trust to give you a 101 lesson on proper brushing techniques, and proper tools to use. I can't tell you how many first time dog owners I see, who wash, and wash their puppies into solid mats, if not properly brushed the mats get tighter and more severe with each bath. 
I'd suggest bringing her back for a bath in 4 weeks, to make sure she has lots of practice with the groomers as a puppy, and to make sure her hair doesn't become matted as it regrows. Perhaps the groomer can show you techniques at that time


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## loves (Jul 2, 2013)

Hmmm Lou, I would take those notes to mean that you want a clean poodle face with a nice neat poodle trim. But I would also ask if you wanted clean feet and no topknot. Your notes would be helpful, but not the total answer. And from all the pictures I've seen of your poodles it appears that you do not want a clean poodle face, so hopefully you also do some explaining of your notes.

Though they are better than the one I got from an owner showing a circle with eyes and nose saying she wanted a round face on her tzu/yorkie/?? mix, but it also stated that she wanted beard hanging down from her jaw. That took a phone call and about 15 minutes of me explaining that I cannot leave long hair on the muzzle to hang down AND do a round face. *sigh*


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

Ok. As a groomer of over 12 years. I have heard this way too many times. The only thing that I do differently is, I make sure I check in the dog thoroughly and show the owner the mats before they even leave my shop. I have heard over a thousand times. "I brush her every day" or "I just bathed her and brushed her" yet, here we are with a nice pelt underneath the nicely brushed out top layer. With my experience, when I get a new client who says "the last groomer shaved her for no reason", I roll my eyes. 9 times out of 10 those same people hand me a matted mess. And how dare you say, "even if she was matted all the had tondo was take the time to brush out the kinks! How about you take the time and keep your dog brushed out between grooms? First of all. Have you ever brushed out mats in your hair? It hurts!. Imagine brushing out mats in sensitive areas like your armpits or. Eh hem. Down below! Are you using a comb? And making sure you brush down to the skin? And are you making sure your dog is completely brushed out before and after the bath. Bathing a matted dog causes the present mats to tighten up. Her nails are sharp because they were cut. Usually if you want the nails filed, it's an extra charge that must be requested because it takes extra work. The only mistake I believe the groomer made was not being thorough and showing and gelling you exactly what they needed to do to groom your dog humanely and keep open communication with you and educate you with proper at home care. 

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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

Lou said:


> I normally don't complain I just don't come back, because it's like complaining about my food at a restaurant, they can spit on it if it's a trashy place, I'd be afraid that because I complained I'd be consider the "bitch" and not just my bitch(dog) LOL pun intended! and that the groomer would take it out on my puppy, like mistreat her...
> So I'd never come back, and if I felt like it , I'd tell the manager, but still never come back if you think the groomer lied/misled/withheld info/mistreated/unprofessional etc... Now if it's just a matter of it being my dog's first time there, and the groomer needs to "learn" how I like her haircut, that's fine, we just learn as we go... I draw on the picture of the dog lines of where to cut and motes on how long, etc (example attached)
> 
> Now I absolutely agree that sometimes it can be the owners fault (accidentally) . It happened to me. When I first got my Spoo I brushed her everyday, but didn't notice that the brush was not going through all the way to the skin. So she was completely matted on the skin level and the ends of the hair looked pretty!!! My bad! So I learned my lesson bought an excellent comb and a new brush and was taught how to brush all the way to the skin
> ...


If your not happy with a groomer, please please tell them, don't just never go back. If you go in there irrate and irrational,, yes I'm sure the groomers will talk about that "crazy woman" after you leave, but if you go in calmly and communicate about what you were displeased with, than the groomer won't be insulted. Sometimes there is miscommunication and we can't fix something if we don't know its wrong. By letting us know immediately we can attempt to fix it now, and make notes so we do it the way want it next time. Also, don't wait till your next appointment. By then we have probably seen 100 dogs and won't remember exactly what we did that was different than what you are asking for. If a groomer was going to mistreat your dog because you complained, then the chances are, they were mistreating your dog before you complained and I would want to stay the hell away from them anyways. It will be obvious if a groomer is worth keeping after a complaint. A good honest and talented groomer will welcome your complaints and do their best to fix it to make you happy, a poor quality groomer may cop and attitude, and in that case, tell them you were willing to work with them, but now you wish for a refund and don't go back. It's unfortunate that there are lazy and incompetent groomers out there that give the rest of us bad names. Usually when I have a first time client, when they come to pick up the dog I bring out their pooch and ask them if there is anything they would like me to modify or note before they leave. 

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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

loves said:


> Hmmm Lou, I would take those notes to mean that you want a clean poodle face with a nice neat poodle trim. But I would also ask if you wanted clean feet and no topknot. Your notes would be helpful, but not the total answer. And from all the pictures I've seen of your poodles it appears that you do not want a clean poodle face, so hopefully you also do some explaining of your notes.
> 
> 
> 
> Though they are better than the one I got from an owner showing a circle with eyes and nose saying she wanted a round face on her tzu/yorkie/?? mix, but it also stated that she wanted beard hanging down from her jaw. That took a phone call and about 15 minutes of me explaining that I cannot leave long hair on the muzzle to hang down AND do a round face. *sigh*



Dear loves,
that was just an EXAMPLE I have several more photos with notes and describing exact length, ask Ellyisme (here on PF) about my grooming instructions! I do a good job swear to ya!  if ya'd like I can scan it for you to see for yourself!  That picture is what I want for the head ! Not what to change. see how the hair is short around the lips so it doesn't go inside the mouth and the fluffy muzzle and topknot? Could you do the haircut the picture shows? Making sure as my note on the picture says "really short eyelashes/brows"? For instance?

Ellyisme took my instructions and did a PERFECT job!!! Such as teddy bear round feet, round muzzle, short eyelashes, don't shave between the eyes (keep same length) leave tails and ears long etc .... I give her tons of credit for her talent in grooming but she cannot read minds I must have done a good enough job for her to get 100% of what I described correctly!!  


This is it : (we tried different hair lengths too) 



































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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

hunny518 said:


> Ok. As a groomer of over 12 years. I have heard this way too many times. The only thing that I do differently is, I make sure I check in the dog thoroughly and show the owner the mats before they even leave my shop.


that's kind of the point, isn't it? that's what my groomer (or at least the receptionist at my groomer's) did. it makes all the difference in the world re how much respect you as a groomer and as a business person in a customer service industry deserve. i would take my dog to you. i would walk away from anyone who supposedly "knows" customers claim their dogs are thoroughly brushed out when they're not, accepts the dog for grooming anyway and then bad mouths the customer for being upset with the results.

i guess i find it amazing that the op is essentially being accused of leaving her dog matted when no one in fact knows that that is the case. just because someone claims to be a groomer does not make that person perfect. a supposedly highly skilled poodle groomer from japan managed to scrape my dog's thighs. i took my dog to her because i had sprained my wrist, could not brush him out and was keeping him in a "lion" clip - kind of the lowchen version of a poodle clip; i explained that he was not brushed out well due to my sprained wrist. well, there is no question that my dog was also wriggly. but he had been groomed by others without incident. then she charged me more because he was wriggly - and i didn't realize till i got him home that she in fact had injured him. totally dishonest and i never went back to her.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

hunny518 said:


> If your not happy with a groomer, please please tell them, don't just never go back. If you go in there irrate and irrational,, yes I'm sure the groomers will talk about that "crazy woman" after you leave, but if you go in calmly and communicate about what you were displeased with, than the groomer won't be insulted. Sometimes there is miscommunication and we can't fix something if we don't know its wrong. By letting us know immediately we can attempt to fix it now, and make notes so we do it the way want it next time. Also, don't wait till your next appointment. By then we have probably seen 100 dogs and won't remember exactly what we did that was different than what you are asking for. If a groomer was going to mistreat your dog because you complained, then the chances are, they were mistreating your dog before you complained and I would want to stay the hell away from them anyways. It will be obvious if a groomer is worth keeping after a complaint. A good honest and talented groomer will welcome your complaints and do their best to fix it to make you happy, a poor quality groomer may cop and attitude, and in that case, tell them you were willing to work with them, but now you wish for a refund and don't go back. It's unfortunate that there are lazy and incompetent groomers out there that give the rest of us bad names. Usually when I have a first time client, when they come to pick up the dog I bring out their pooch and ask them if there is anything they would like me to modify or note before they leave.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App




Did you see this part of my post? I wouldn't just leave if it was a matter of "1st time grooming my dog learning how I like it type of thing..."

I said:
///////////
So I'd never come back, and if I felt like it , I'd tell the manager, but still never come back if you think the groomer lied/misled/withheld info/mistreated/unprofessional etc... 
Now if it's just a matter of it being my dog's first time there, and the groomer needs to "learn" how I like her haircut, that's fine, we just learn as we go... 
///////////


Hope that clarifies it....
My English must be failing me badly today!! (It happens sometimes) nobody is gettin' what I'm sayin' jeez! Sorry guys  






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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

Lou said:


> I normally don't complain I just don't come back, because it's like complaining about my food at a restaurant, they can spit on it if it's a trashy place, I'd be afraid that because I complained I'd be consider the "bitch" and not just my bitch(dog) LOL pun intended!
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I was basing my comment off of the beginning of your response 



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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

hunny518 said:


> I was basing my comment off of the beginning of your response
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



And I was basing that first part of comment on the fact that the groomer said nothing about mats and possibly having to shave her down, everybody hates negative surprises, and there was another surprise with the pricing increase too. Also the groomer could have explained more since it was the first time for this dog-owner (dremmell rocks! for instance)  their nails won't make u bleed.... Etc.. Explain the options... That's what I was referring to when I said I'd never come back. And Some groomers call and let me know if there's an issue... Before I pick up so we're clear. I appreciate that.

I don't think a groomer can read minds so it's totally normal for the first few times even, for someone's dog to come back not looking "exactly" how they pictured "in their mind"  it's hard for regular-people that know nothing about grooming to explain, with the correct terms, what they want., so the groomer can just try their best  and that's totally fine  in my opinion 


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

Lou said:


> And I was basing that first part of comment on the fact that the groomer said nothing about mats and possibly having to shave her down, everybody hates negative surprises, and there was another surprise with the pricing increase too. Also the groomer could have explained more since it was the first time for this dog-owner (dremmell rocks! for instance)  their nails won't make u bleed.... Etc.. Explain the options... That's what I was referring to when I said I'd never come back. And Some groomers call and let me know if there's an issue... Before I pick up so we're clear. I appreciate that.
> 
> I don't think a groomer can read minds so it's totally normal for the first few times even, for someone's dog to come back not looking "exactly" how they pictured "in their mind"  it's hard for regular-people that know nothing about grooming to explain, with the correct terms, what they want., so the groomer can just try their best  and that's totally fine  in my opinion
> 
> ...


Hence the reason I always prepare to spend about 10-15 min with a new client before and few min after an appointment. My biggest goal is to make the experience positive for both the pet and the owner. Also, sometimes mats can be overlooked even when checked in and we get a surprise when we begin the bath. In our shop the owner is called at that point, but that could have happened. I very very rarely need to modify anything when a client picks their dog up because of my pre-consultation. If I have to shave a dog, I always use words like "naked" and "take it down to the skin". Then when I take the dog back, I do what whatever I can to keep the dog as long as possible. My favorite thing is when I get a dog that we originally thought was too matted, and find the matt's just pop right out, and when the owners come back to pick up their "naked" dog, they are surprised with the original haircut they were hoping for! It doesn't happen often, but I love it when it does. Also, very rarely is a dog ever "naked" when they do go home shaved down. I just like to use words that can not be misunderstood. Words like "short" or "shorter than planned" can still be 2inches left in someones eyes, and than they are shocked when their dog is 1/2 long. Also, when I check in an animal, I always make the owner give me an exact length with their fingers. I always repeat back to them what they say to me so I make sure I understand what they want, and I ask body length, leg length, and head length/shape. Ears and tail are also discussed, and I always mention our add on services such as, dremmeling and toothbrushing. If an an owner tells me to take the dog "short" or "just make her look cute" I don't walk away until I have gotten an exact length. I always tell them, that my idea of short could be 3 inches shorter than their idea. And their idea of short could be way shorter than my next clients idea of short. Some clients almost seem to want to challenge us because they will dance around that question..lol when a client refuses to give me an exact ideal length, I will finally say " well if you won't show me a length with your fingers, I'll just have to do a bath and brush today" works every time..lol through the years I have found that clients who say they aren't picky, or just make her cute are always the first to complain or be unhappy. If I do have to shave down a dog who is matted, I always discuss with them the options to help grow the dog out into their desired haircut and educate them on proper coat care. Most of us groomers prefer dogs to come in in good condition and get to do fun haircuts on them. I hate shaving dogs. I am a scissor queen. Many of my clients don't get touched with a blade, they are scissored all over. 

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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

hunny518 said:


> Hence the reason I always prepare to spend about 10-15 min with a new client before and few min after an appointment. My biggest goal is to make the experience positive for both the pet and the owner. Also, sometimes mats can be overlooked even when checked in and we get a surprise when we begin the bath. In our shop the owner is called at that point, but that could have happened. I very very rarely need to modify anything when a client picks their dog up because of my pre-consultation. If I have to shave a dog, I always use words like "naked" and "take it down to the skin". Then when I take the dog back, I do what whatever I can to keep the dog as long as possible. My favorite thing is when I get a dog that we originally thought was too matted, and find the matt's just pop right out, and when the owners come back to pick up their "naked" dog, they are surprised with the original haircut they were hoping for! It doesn't happen often, but I love it when it does. Also, very rarely is a dog ever "naked" when they do go home shaved down. I just like to use words that can not be misunderstood. Words like "short" or "shorter than planned" can still be 2inches left in someones eyes, and than they are shocked when their dog is 1/2 long. Also, when I check in an animal, I always make the owner give me an exact length with their fingers. I always repeat back to them what they say to me so I make sure I understand what they want, and I ask body length, leg length, and head length/shape. Ears and tail are also discussed, and I always mention our add on services such as, dremmeling and toothbrushing. If an an owner tells me to take the dog "short" or "just make her look cute" I don't walk away until I have gotten an exact length. I always tell them, that my idea of short could be 3 inches shorter than their idea. And their idea of short could be way shorter than my next clients idea of short. Some clients almost seem to want to challenge us because they will dance around that question..lol when a client refuses to give me an exact ideal length, I will finally say " well if you won't show me a length with your fingers, I'll just have to do a bath and brush today" works every time..lol through the years I have found that clients who say they aren't picky, or just make her cute are always the first to complain or be unhappy. If I do have to shave down a dog who is matted, I always discuss with them the options to help grow the dog out into their desired haircut and educate them on proper coat care. Most of us groomers prefer dogs to come in in good condition and get to do fun haircuts on them. I hate shaving dogs. I am a scissor queen. Many of my clients don't get touched with a blade, they are scissored all over.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Sounds like you are a super awesome groomer!


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

hunny518 said:


> Hence the reason I always prepare to spend about 10-15 min with a new client before and few min after an appointment. My biggest goal is to make the experience positive for both the pet and the owner. Also, sometimes mats can be overlooked even when checked in and we get a surprise when we begin the bath. In our shop the owner is called at that point, but that could have happened. I very very rarely need to modify anything when a client picks their dog up because of my pre-consultation. If I have to shave a dog, I always use words like "naked" and "take it down to the skin". Then when I take the dog back, I do what whatever I can to keep the dog as long as possible. My favorite thing is when I get a dog that we originally thought was too matted, and find the matt's just pop right out, and when the owners come back to pick up their "naked" dog, they are surprised with the original haircut they were hoping for! It doesn't happen often, but I love it when it does. Also, very rarely is a dog ever "naked" when they do go home shaved down. I just like to use words that can not be misunderstood. Words like "short" or "shorter than planned" can still be 2inches left in someones eyes, and than they are shocked when their dog is 1/2 long. Also, when I check in an animal, I always make the owner give me an exact length with their fingers. I always repeat back to them what they say to me so I make sure I understand what they want, and I ask body length, leg length, and head length/shape. Ears and tail are also discussed, and I always mention our add on services such as, dremmeling and toothbrushing. If an an owner tells me to take the dog "short" or "just make her look cute" I don't walk away until I have gotten an exact length. I always tell them, that my idea of short could be 3 inches shorter than their idea. And their idea of short could be way shorter than my next clients idea of short. Some clients almost seem to want to challenge us because they will dance around that question..lol when a client refuses to give me an exact ideal length, I will finally say " well if you won't show me a length with your fingers, I'll just have to do a bath and brush today" works every time..lol through the years I have found that clients who say they aren't picky, or just make her cute are always the first to complain or be unhappy. If I do have to shave down a dog who is matted, I always discuss with them the options to help grow the dog out into their desired haircut and educate them on proper coat care. Most of us groomers prefer dogs to come in in good condition and get to do fun haircuts on them. I hate shaving dogs. I am a scissor queen. Many of my clients don't get touched with a blade, they are scissored all over.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Sounds like you are a super awesome groomer!  
I love the: 

" when a client refuses to give me an exact ideal length, I will finally say " well if you won't show me a length with your fingers, I'll just have to do a bath and brush today" works every time..lol "


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## Ellyisme (Jul 17, 2012)

Lou said:


> Dear loves,
> that was just an EXAMPLE I have several more photos with notes and describing exact length, ask Ellyisme (here on PF) about my grooming instructions! I do a good job swear to ya!  if ya'd like I can scan it for you to see for yourself!  That picture is what I want for the head ! Not what to change. see how the hair is short around the lips so it doesn't go inside the mouth and the fluffy muzzle and topknot? Could you do the haircut the picture shows? Making sure as my note on the picture says "really short eyelashes/brows"? For instance?
> 
> Ellyisme took my instructions and did a PERFECT job!!! Such as teddy bear round feet, round muzzle, short eyelashes, don't shave between the eyes (keep same length) leave tails and ears long etc .... I give her tons of credit for her talent in grooming but she cannot read minds I must have done a good enough job for her to get 100% of what I described correctly!!
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



I LOVE YOUR NOTES! It is so much easier to groom when the owner knows what they want their dogs to look like. If I ever had questions, I would ask, but you are always very specific and there isn't any room for missed interpretations such as a shaved face.


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

Lou said:


> Sounds like you are a super awesome groomer!
> I love the:
> 
> " when a client refuses to give me an exact ideal length, I will finally say " well if you won't show me a length with your fingers, I'll just have to do a bath and brush today" works every time..lol "


I try! I love my fluffy clients and I want them coming back. I take a lot of pride in my work and that is my advertisement walking out on a leash, I want to make sure the owners are proudly telling others where they get their dogs hair cut, not warning them away. Lol

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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

NicoleMCooper said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am highly upset! I took little Paris for her first grooming today and they cut off all her hair because she was supposedly "matted" when I had just brushed her and gave her a bath with a nice blowout two days ago! She was not matted! Even if she was, all they had to do was take their time and brush out the kinks. They didn't even cut her hair evenly. It looked as if they just cut her with their eyes closed. They also did not properly cut her nails--she keeps scratching and cutting me every time she touches me. Here I thought I had made a good choice by going to this business after seeing the reviews and having heard of the horror stories from Petco, Petsmart, etc....Even worse--all of this was $70. ? I want to start grooming her myself now. I just don't know what's best? Or what to get or how to even get started! Any suggestions?!
> 
> ...



This is exactly why I began grooming my own poodles - I know that there are some great groomers out there who could do better than me, but I was not finding them, I was getting such shoddy work done for $100, complete with nicks and clipper burns that I realized that I couldn't do any worse - and you know what - on my worse day, I never did!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I started doing my own grooming for convenience, not because I didn't like how she came back. We always had a conversation about how things would turn out after the groomer put hands on Lily, but one time I really needed to get her done and they were all booked up (my fault for trying to get in last minute) and I don't want to be stuck again with a big trial where I want a nicely groomed dog and I can't get to someone else to do her.


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## Michelle (Nov 16, 2009)

In all honesty I don't think she looks _that_ bad. Soft, floppy, puppy hair isn't the easiest to work with...the clipper doesn't always grab it and it is a whole lot easier to leave lines in the fur than it is with the adult hair. Plus a wiggly/nervous puppy added to the mix doesn't make it much easier either. They tend to be especially wiggly for their face/head (at least all of the puppies I have groomed thus far) so they don't always come out perfect the first time...a puppy can only take so much in at once. A couple hours at a grooming salon is a longggg day for a young puppy. They start to get tired and uncooperative.

It is kind of a disappointment that the groomer didn't tell you about the matts before the groom or at least tell you over the phone after the bath and blow out...maybe she thought they would blow out with the hv dryer or brush out easier than they did. The shop I work at we try not to brush matts out on a puppies first few grooms, just so it is a good experience for them and they don't relate grooming with pain...but our shop manager talks to the pets parents about it throughly before we even bring the pup into the back for his bath.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

*NicoleMCooper*: I hope you're feeling better, or a least a bit more in control, about dealing with groomers and grooming going forward. You got lots of good advice. I hope it helped, and didn't overwhelm you.

If you want to try your hand at home grooming Paris, I would be happy to gift you with a gently used Wahl Arco Cordless Clipper. It's *pink*!resent:It will do the job on your pup. You can start out trying to do her feet, face and tail. Then move on from there. _No_ pressure, _no_ obligation! You want it, just PM me your mailing address. (I promise I'm a harmless, well-intentioned granny!) 

There are lots of good grooming videos online and for sale, you might get lucky as I did and be able to "hire" a groomer for lessons. I have been home grooming Chagall for several years now. And I will say just like my cooking, my grooming has improved over time!


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## Minnie (Apr 25, 2011)

*OP -* Sorry that you are unhappy with the groom - the pups a cutie no matter the groom and it will definitely grow quickly!

It is possible that you really ended up with a poor groomer - there are those that are great and not so great in every profession... 

As you were not happy with how this was handled I'd either do further research and find a new salon and make sure that you take plenty of time with the groomer explaining exactly what you want and asking if it is possible - a great groomer will tell you no if it is not and give suggestions. Or if you go back then be extremely clear with your expectations.

Now this all goes out the window if you take in a matted dog - no dog should have to go through the pain of dematting because the owner does not do the work required! You've been given excellent advise here on how to care for the coat so that hopefully will not be an issue


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

NicoleMCooper, take Chagall's Mom up on her advise. Lily and i know her and Chagall personally. She really is a "a harmless, well intentioned granny (even though she looks too young to be a granny)." Her suggestion to start by learning to do feet, tail and face is good since if you decide you want a poodley look with clean face, feet tail you will want to be able to do touch ups yourself. Also you can start by doing just one foot and stopping to help your cute little girl accept the grooming process with no worries. It will all be good.


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## loves (Jul 2, 2013)

Lou said:


> Dear loves,
> that was just an EXAMPLE I have several more photos with notes and describing exact length, ask Ellyisme (here on PF) about my grooming instructions! I do a good job swear to ya!  if ya'd like I can scan it for you to see for yourself!  That picture is what I want for the head ! Not what to change. see how the hair is short around the lips so it doesn't go inside the mouth and the fluffy muzzle and topknot? Could you do the haircut the picture shows? Making sure as my note on the picture says "really short eyelashes/brows"? For instance?
> 
> Ellyisme took my instructions and did a PERFECT job!!! Such as teddy bear round feet, round muzzle, short eyelashes, don't shave between the eyes (keep same length) leave tails and ears long etc .... I give her tons of credit for her talent in grooming but she cannot read minds I must have done a good enough job for her to get 100% of what I described correctly!!



Yes.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Ellyisme said:


> I LOVE YOUR NOTES! It is so much easier to groom when the owner knows what they want their dogs to look like. If I ever had questions, I would ask, but you are always very specific and there isn't any room for missed interpretations such as a shaved face.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App





Thank you!!! oh I miss you!  hugs to u all


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## Linda092 (Jan 5, 2014)

This was a great thread to read through! My Mpoo mix went to her first groom after joining my family at 2.5 years old (rescue). I'm not fussy, and I didn't even know what to expect from them. Luckily I got a good groomer: she was holding an Mpoo in her hands when I arrived with a funky cut: all i can remember was it was a mohawk with some green tint! When I went back to get my pooch she was longer than I had imagined, but I figured that it really didn't matter, she was clean and happy. The groomer showed me all the scrapes on her arms :-( but said Holly would get used to it all. Then I paid the bill and remembered the tip! Is 20% an okay tip?


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

OP- I am so sorry that you are upset with your first groom. As a pro groomer specializing in Poodles I am upset that at check in the groomer didn't whip out a comb to not only check for mats but if found hand you the comb so that you would know what the mats feel like. If that did not happen then a phone call to you was in order as to whether you would like to go short or come pick up your pup as is. Now you had called them & they told you they were almost done & still the quote was much lower than you were charged.
1. Please contact them as to why you were not happy
2. If that goes no where then start looking now for a new groomer now. A bath & shaping in 6 wks will be in order.
3. A comb is the most important tool in your groom box if you want length.

Let us know what area you are in, I know a great groomers.


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## Luce (Mar 4, 2013)

I have taken Luce to Petsmart for her first pro grooming and then after. She was a little dream at the beginning! I would bathe her, she would get tired, I would dry her and brush her, then comb her and she would fall asleep in my lap! Even when I combed around her eyes, nose and mouth!! I also trimmed the hair around her eyes when she fell asleep!! Good puppy. I brought her in for her first pro job at 4 months or so, they charge about $15 included brushing, bath, blow dry, shave sani areas, clean ears and clip nails. They gave me a 4 hour time frame to work on her in small amounts of time so she doesn't get stressed. 

When she had her first regular grooming, I wasn't happy, I called to tell them, the manager offered a discount on the next groom so I gave them another chance. There are several groomers in these places at different levels of experience and work on different breeds differently. I found one who seems to like Luce, Luce seems to like her (Luce fell asleep on the table when her face was being scissored!). I can also watch through the window while she is being clipped to see how they treat all of the dogs not just mine.

She is a mini and they charge $45 for a brushing, wash, blow dry, cut, shave sani area, pluck ears and clip nails. 

There is a learning curve to explaining what I want done to her. I don't know groomers lingo, so I have been guilty of not expressing myself or understanding them. We are all doing the best we can - at least I think we are. I do have plans of grooming her myself, I have the clippers, just have to get the garage set up properly.

IMHO I think you should go back with your pooch - or should I say your absolutely adorable pooch, and tell them you are a bit baffled on why they clipped her the way they did and you are not happy with it. Give them a chance to explain things to you and a chance to offer to even things up on her. Ask them for help! Ask them if they could show you the proper way to brush and comb her so it won't be so stressful on her or difficult for them. I found when you ask the professional for help on how to do something they usually are very eager to show and explain how you can do the maintenance now to avoid the big problem later.


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