# Food Concerns for my Two Standards



## Standardx2

I'm the proud owner of two 10 week old standards and I'm at wits end trying to find the right food. Until they were 7 weeks they were fed Purina Pro Plan Large puppy which in my opinion they stools were soft. I changed them for a few days to Authority Grain Free and I noticed an improvement. Later than week, on their first vet visit, the vet recommended I put them on Science Diet which they have been on since. I'm finding that their stools tend to be loose like when they were on the Purina Pro Plan. Since their food has changed so frequently in their short life time I wanted to get some feed back from other owners re food choices for their standards. What's your impression of Authority Grain Free? What's the real deal with grading of the dog food? I've seen a few and the ratings have varied on each which has added further confusion to my decision making. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.


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## 2719

Here is a link to Dog food advisor for authority dog food (I haven't heard of this brand so I can't comment) Authority Dog Food | Review and Rating

If you notice soft stool it might be from switching dog foods without transitioning. You should not just switch from one brand to another cold turkey, but mix the two together. Also I am not sure if a standard poodle would need a large breed puppy mix. I would not consider my standards a large breed. I consider then a medium breed. You do not want them to develop too rapidly and they may be taking in more calories then they need or can process.


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## mom24doggies

First of all, don't listen to your vet about science diet. It is a very low quality food for a high price. 

I looked at the Authority grain free, it actually looks to be pretty decent. I personally like to see a little more meat but I think that if you decide to go with that your dogs would be fine. 

As far as soft stools, it could be any number of things. Maybe their body doesn't like their food, or maybe you are feeding them too much. I know my kids get squishy poo if they get too much food. 

Good luck!


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## Meg

First of all I just have to get this out of the way...TWO 10 WEEK OLD PUPPIES! AT ONCE?!? Whoa. LOL. I second guessed myself with just one puppy. I totally take my hat off to you! I know it isn't uncommon to raise two at once, but I don't think I could.

I echo the sentiments of everyone else. A rapid transition between foods will cause the runs. Spread out the transition, buy smaller bags if you are afraid of waste. I also think puppies are just more prone to intestinal upset in general with everything they put in their mouths. 

Science Diet is not all it's hyped to be. It's not much better than a grocery store brand at four times the cost. There are lots of better alternatives . Try this website for an excellent review of each brand. Dog Food Analysis - Reviews of kibble Click on "reviews" to see a rating system of all commercially prepared dog foods. I think as long as you go for a "four" or higher you'll be going in the right direction. Science Diet falls under a category one, not good! 

My puppy has always been on an adult formula of dog food. My last dog was a great dane and I've just always felt that slower growth is better for the dog. I'm sure there are arguments against feeding adult dog food, but it does seem to be the majority's opinion.

Good luck with your new pups and I hope you get their food figured out!


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## Carley's Mom

S.D. is an awful food. They are now trying to get away with adding plastic to it for a longer shelf life... 

I bet things are wild at your house 2 spoo puppies!!! WoW. We need photos.


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## tortoise

I second the: TWO standard poodles? Are you sure?

Are they littermates? Are they same gender littermates?

It can be done, but it's not a good way to start out.

....back to topic....


SD uses higher quality ingredients than foods with a similar ingredient list. (They've refused shipments of meat that were then used at human restaurants.) There is literally an enormous amount of science behind the products. The same work that is used by other dog food manufacturers - like your own favorite high end food.

Do I feed SD? No. Do I recommend it? Only if a client is feeding something worse. 

I feed any grain-free food. I switch with every bag and/or mix it all together. I believe varety is essential in nutrition.

Soft stools may not be because of food quality! They are often caused by stress, parasites, and overfeeding. Most people overfeed their dogs. Make sure you are not. Have their stool checked for parasites. 

Evaluate their environment and reactions to it for stress. They're at a peak age for antagonism between littermates. This is (one of the reasons) puppies are separated from each other at 7 - 8 weeks of age. While it is much less likely than overfeeding, they might be stressing each other out.


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## Chagall's mom

You might try adding a teaspoon of plain, canned pumpkin to your pups' food to see if that helps resolve the loose stool issue. It was my experience with my mpoo as a pup that sometimes the consistency of his stools fluctuated for no discernible reason. I agree with the POV that SD is far from the ideal food. I have had success feeding Fromm Four Star, and a few months ago switched to Nature's Logic. My poodle does extremely well on that. I also feed cooked chicken, fish, meats, liver and some veggies, and Greek non-fat yogurt. As others have said, you need to make a slow transition between different foods to avoid digestive upset. I've had dogs with caste iron stomachs who could be switched more readily, but most need time for their systems to make the adjustment. 

Just want to echo the notion that people can and do successfully raise "two at once." One member here who comes to mind is *schpeckie. *She has two darling littermates she's successfully raised and trained, taking each in turn to obedience classes. Her girls are the best of friends and double the joy. She may be a good resource for you going forward. Best of luck to you!:clover:


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## tortoise

Chagall's mom said:


> She has two darling littermates she's successfully raised and trained, taking each in turn to obedience classes. Her girls are the best of friends and double the joy. She may be a good resource for you going forward. Best of luck to you!:clover:


If I remeber correctly, her success has a lot to do with keeping them separated much of the time while they were young and giving them separate attention and training time.

That's how it can be done! 

She's also lucky since the worst dog fights are between females living together - especially littermates.


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## liljaker

I would never feed a dog SD -- when I first got Sunny he was having loose stools until I got his diet under control. First thing the vet (no longer my vet) recommended was SD -- and then he added, "I know how you feel about it, so I understand if you decide against it" --- which I did. I settled on some generic Flagyl (fish zole) and some sweet potato, and voila, we were good to go. If you can't read it, don't feed it!


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## liljaker

P.S. For those of you who think SD is ok, do a Google search for SD Recalls and there is a huge list from just a few months ago.


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## Chagall's mom

tortoise said:


> If I remeber correctly, her success has a lot to do with keeping them separated much of the time while they were young and giving them separate attention and training time.
> 
> That's how it can be done!
> 
> She's also lucky since the worst dog fights are between females living together - especially littermates.


Good of you to echo what I said; the pups were trained separately. Perhaps you also agree it's good the OP has access to others here who have raised littermates successfully.

I for one would like to see this thread return to the original topic, _what to feed the young spoo pups_. You can if you wish start a whole new thread on raising littermates, for those interested. What to feed puppy is an endlessly interesting and important discussion, I hope to hear more!


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## cavon

Here is another option for those who have the time and are inclined to prepare their dog's food. I have spoken with Hilary Watson at length and she is as pleasant to speak with as she is educated and experienced in the field of pet nutrition. As I have mentioned in multiple threads, I always try to get the opion and advice of certified, recognized experts in whatever area I am researching for my dog.

HILARY'S BLEND (formerly THE BALANCER) supplement for home-made meals

This product is only available through vets in Canada but can be purchased via the Hilary's Blend on-line store by any US based owners who might be interested. there is a ton of valuable information on this site.


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## schpeckie

Standardx2 said:


> I'm the proud owner of two 10 week old standards and I'm at wits end trying to find the right food.


Hello, and congratulations on your new puppies! When I got my girls (sisters) also at 10 weeks old and it is sure a learning experience and double the trouble, but it is all worth it! I'm not sure if they do this in the US, but here at the Petsmart, they let you bring back opened dogfood if your dog doesnot like it or has a reaction. I went through a few different brands, but it seemed that Acana was the best (good bowel movements) and overall healthywise. They are 2 years young now, and they still chomp on it!
And yes, separate puppy school classes is great bonding time.
Enjoy those Puppies!  

Sylvia & the Girls!


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## hilshaven

I am interested in this conversation since I will be picking up my 7 1/2 week old spoo on Tuesday!

The breeder recommended feeding a mixture of 1/3 EVO small bite, 2/3 costco puppy food, and a TBS of Tripett on top. She also mentioned that she feed them yogurt and meaty bones on occassion. She reference the website dogfoodanalysis.com. I found it very interesting....

The reason she "dilutes" the EVO is because of the very high protein content. The costco food, also a good quality, has less protein.


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## 2719

hilshaven said:


> I am interested in this conversation since I will be picking up my 7 1/2 week old spoo on Tuesday!
> 
> The breeder recommended feeding a mixture of 1/3 EVO small bite, 2/3 costco puppy food, and a TBS of Tripett on top..


Good Luck with your new puppy. I have heard very good things about EVO...but it is out of my price range. Costco I was planning on switching to, until they had the recall this past summer. But I would love to learn more about Tripett (is it tripe?)

I have been sprinkling the missing link on their food, but some of them do not like it and there is a residue in the bottom of the bowl Dog Supplements, Pet Nutrition Products, Cat Supplements - The Missing Link


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## hilshaven

Yes! Tripett is tripe with a few, very few, other ingredients that comes as a wet dog food aka canned.

It is interesting to look up the various dog foods on the dog food analysis site. Since my hubby and I have had a lot of time to research and think about what we are going to feed our lil spoo, we have been trying to find human grade dog food. Kind of scary what is in some of these commercial dog foods! 

I have heard that Orijen is a very good dog food too! Like you, I am kind of discouraged at the prices....but hopefully it will pay off with a healthier dog!


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## Meg

> I have heard that Orijen is a very good dog food too! Like you, I am kind of discouraged at the prices....but hopefully it will pay off with a healthier dog!


I know this is a little off topic, relates to pickiness...my older shih poo is eating Orijen senior. It is out of my price range if I were going to feed it to my spoo. My ten pound shih poo is one of the pickiest eaters. I find that I can feed him _just_ Orijen and he will happily eat it, day in and day out. Before I was buying a good quality kibble, PLUS canned food and it was hit or miss whether he would eat it or not. I was literally throwing food away and wasting way more money than I realized. Orijen is quite a bit higher than I would like to pay but I don't have to dress it up to make it appealing to Joey. The conveniance of that is totally worth it. Just something to think about. :alberteinstein:


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## hilshaven

Her is my "I wonder". How much protein should a pup be getting, anyway? My breeder mixes the two foods to bring down the protein of the higher quality food because she says it is too high for a pup. I looked at some of the puppy formulas and they seem to have high protein levels. How high is too high, and what is too low?


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## Meg

I am by no means an expert on canine nutrition, sorry. It's in a dogs nature and physiology to eat a diet high in protein, though. I found this informative link Best Puppy Foods which may help you decide what is best for your puppy. It sounds like you are doing all your homework so you may have already come across it.

There seem to be so many good foods available, there aren't any foods that meet in the middle in regards to protein for your new puppy? In reading the above article, it really seems to stress that calcium levels should remain low, but that high protein levels weren't as concerning. I haven't come across what protein level would be too low for a dog. I think vets will put dogs on low protein diets that have impaired kidney function. Most of the things I've read caution that over-feeding is more damaging than high protein diets.


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## Rayah-QualitySPs

hilshaven said:


> I have heard that Orijen is a very good dog food too! Like you, I am kind of discouraged at the prices....but hopefully it will pay off with a healthier dog!


I have been feeding Orijen for over 3 years now and I am very happy with the food. Orijen seems *expensive but* in reality *it is not*. 

My standards get about 2 cups a day. We do free feed but keep track of how much they eat. * You cannot free feed puppies or piglet dogs.* I love the fact that all food ingredients come from Canada. 

I am a very *thrifty person* when it comes to what I buy. The dogs have never been healthier -knock on wood. 

My one girl did have an anal gland problem because the stools were *so small* but I added one teaspoon ground flax for bulk. I buy the flax at Costco for 5 dollars and keep it in the freezer. 

I have fed Purina Pro Plan and Orijen food is actually cheaper to feed in the long run.

This litter is the first litter where I have fed only one type of dog food. 

I always worried about the protein level so fed the Purina with the quality dog food to bulk up the quality food for the puppies. This time, because of all the recalls, I could not find a filler dog food for my puppies that I liked. I fed the straight Orijen Large Breed Puppy and *really watched how much I fed* them. Showed hubby how to measure accurately and started with a 1/4 cup measuring cup.

If you *overfeed Orijen* I know it will cause *diarrhea*. 

The puppies scarfed down the food like I was starving them but never cried or whined for food except when I was putting it in the bowl. The puppy weights all increased but this litter did not have any pot bellies. I did feed the puppies additional things like fresh pea pods from the garden, apples etc. This litter has been the *quietest, most content* litter I ever had. 

I will continue to pay attention to see if they *sell the company* or *change the formula* as this has happened to many other quality foods. When Science Diet first came out, like 25 years ago, it was one of the healthiest food.

So *StandardsX2* go ahead and switch slowly to Orijen. If you are sure your puppies do not have worms you can put them on some dog probiotics to firm up their stools. The one I use is called Acute Care and I have to get it from the vets but I am also sold in it. No more immodium or kaopectate in this house....at least *not* for the dogs!

I also had two standard poodle puppies at once. I had a three year old and a six month old daughter at the same time too! It *can be done* but does require some planning. Good luck.


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## tortoise

hilshaven said:


> Her is my "I wonder". How much protein should a pup be getting, anyway? My breeder mixes the two foods to bring down the protein of the higher quality food because she says it is too high for a pup. I looked at some of the puppy formulas and they seem to have high protein levels. How high is too high, and what is too low?


Unless a dog has kidney damage/problems, there is no such thing as too high of protein.

When you're looking at protein, you are actually looking at a profile of many different protein that are essential for life. No single protein source - plant or animal - is complete. You can look up the minimum requirements for protein specific to life stages in AAFCO guidelines which are published online.

FAT is a problem. To much fat will kill a dog with pancreatitis. Fat is used to increase energy density of foods. Some dogs need it. But we're not talking about household pets. The hard working and outdoor dogs need the calorie dense fat.

Food has a limited number of components: protein, fat, water, carb, fiber, ash Whatever the proportion, it has to be 100%. When carbs are reduced or removed (which is appropriate for all dogs except pregnant females in the last 3 weeks of pregnancy), the difference has to be made up somewhere. Too much fat is dangerous, but more protein is not. So the grain free foods will be higher in protein.


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## tortoise

Science Diet came out with corn-free and grain-free food. I'm switching my dog to the grain free when I run out of Blue Buffalo and Nature's Variety grain free formulas.

I'll save a ton of money, my dog gets grain free kibble, and I get security of feeding a food that is actually tested for AAFCO - not just formulated to meet AAFCO.

As far as Science Diet recalls - there have not been any since 2007. They were can and pouch cat foods (consumer not veterinary products) affected by the whole melamine recall fiasco. You can look it up on FDA's website yourself. Remember that the melamine recalls even reached frozen raw dog foods.

Science Diet has many, many forumlas. Many you can't get in pet stores. I would never dream of feeding most of the consumer forumlas. But there are 3 non-prescription foods from Science Diet that I would feed.

So I'm going back on what I said earlier in this thread about not feeding SD, because I will be soon. :angel:


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## Standardx2

*Thank you Sylvia*



schpeckie said:


> Hello, and congratulations on your new puppies! When I got my girls (sisters) also at 10 weeks old and it is sure a learning experience and double the trouble, but it is all worth it! I'm not sure if they do this in the US, but here at the Petsmart, they let you bring back opened dogfood if your dog doesnot like it or has a reaction. I went through a few different brands, but it seemed that Acana was the best (good bowel movements) and overall healthywise. They are 2 years young now, and they still chomp on it!
> And yes, separate puppy school classes is great bonding time.
> Enjoy those Puppies!
> 
> Sylvia & the Girls!


I'm excited to get input from an experienced "2 dogs at once owner." I'm finding it challenging just as everyone said it would be, but I am keeping hope alive that it will all soon be under control. I'm loving life with my two babies and look forward to years of happiness. I'll be in touch with you again I'm sure.


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## caroline429

tortoise said:


> When you're looking at protein, you are actually looking at a profile of many different protein that are essential for life. No single protein source - plant or animal - is complete.


I just wanted to expand on this a bit since we were talking about protein. Protein is composed of many molecules called amino acids. While it is true that no animal or plant food contains all of the amino acids, not all are required to meet the protein needs of a dog.

A dog's body can manufacture some amino acids on its own. These are known as nonessential amino acids. There are, however, some amino acids that a dog cannot manufacture and must get from food. These are known as essential amino acids. 

You'll see mention of a food's amino acid profile and bioavailability. This refers to how many of the essential amino acids a food contains and how easily digested they are. Eggs are almost a perfect food. They contain all the essential amino acids and are highly bioavailable. They are followed by dairy, fish and meat, in that order for amino acid profile and bioavailablity. These are all considered good sources of protein for a dog.

There is a theory currently that protein sources have to be rotated to adequately meet a dog's needs. As long as you are feeding a diet that contains a high quality protein, as mentioned above, there is no need to rotate. The dog's amino acid requirements will be met. 

The reason I mention this is that not all dogs are fed a rotating selection of proteins, be it due to disease, allergies, a sensitive gut or budgetary concerns. I didn't want anyone not familiar with canine nutrition to worry that their dog would suffer nutritionally if they didn't rotate the protein sources.


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