# It's time for Abbey's vaccinations



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Caddy said:


> I got a notice in the mail that it's time foe Abbey's vaccinations, I've been dreading this. When I've spoken to my vet in the past about wanting to do the testing instead he's been very reluctant, saying its safer to vaccinate them. I felt his implication was I'd be crazy not to vaccinate her, he said people think it's a money grab by vets but in his opinion it's necessary. He's very good in all other areas and I like him, but there's this one issue. I've called other clinics here and haven't found one that supports testing. What to do? Some clinics will reluctantly do the testing, which they want 450.00 - 550.00 for, so it doesn't make sense to me as the shots are much less so why are they so reluctant? What do you do?


Ahhh, those darn notices! 

Okay, before you rush to the vet to get vaccines, how old is Abbey and when was she last vaccinated? And what vaccines is she "due" for?

It is absolutely NOT safer to just vaccinate. If you think about it, it's absolutely crazy talk to vaccinate a dog who is already immune! And in doing so, vaccinating an already immune dog only has the ability to cause harm. Because - you cannot make an immune dog *more immune*. They either have immunity, in which case it will block the vaccine, or they don't have immunity. And you have to seriously consider that if a dog doesn't have immunity as an adult, they were either not properly vaccinated as puppies or are one of the rare dogs who are unable to mount a vaccine response (in which case vaccinating would again be pointless).

My dogs are vaccinated as puppies and then again at one year of age. The one year of age vaccine is basically a safeguard in case the last puppy vaccine was given too early (blocked by maternal antibodies) to mount lifelong immunity. The one year of age vaccine is also the very last Distemper or Parvo vaccine my dogs ever receive. It is a 3 year vaccine so I then start titering, annually when needed by training facilities, at age 4. I haven't had any dogs show a lack of immunity yet. 

Here is a really nice example. I recently tittered one of my bitches prior to whelping a litter. I did this because Dr. Ronald Schulz (leading vaccine researcher) can actually run a maternal nomograph where he not only does a titer test but also projects when the maternal antibodies would be likely to wane in her litter of puppies. This helps to properly time vaccines in the puppies. Anyway, at almost 5 years of age, her titer came back high for both Parvo and Distemper. Because she didn't come to live with me until she was 2 years old, she actually was last vaccinated at.....*16 weeks!* Her titer level was so high, we actually had to, at the advice of Dr. Schultz, push back the timing of vaccines in the puppies because it was likely her maternal immunity given to the puppies was strong enough to last until at least *17 weeks in the puppies! * That is a full week after most vaccine protocols end. 

The puppy vaccine stuff is sort of besides the point, but the key point here is that a bitch last vaccinated at 16 weeks was still unquestionably immune at almost 5 years of age.

So, in regard to finding a vet who "supports testing". I guess you need to decide if you want/need them to be accepting of your decision to titer test? Or do you just need them to pull the test and agree to disagree? It would drive me up a wall if a vet tried to argue my decision to titer, but at the end of the day, if that vet was otherwise fantastic, I'd be OK with agreeing to disagree on that topic. But in the end, it is ME and not them that decides what is done to my dog and when and how. 

And $450-$550 for titer testing!? OMG! A lot of your typical pet vets around here will charge as much as $150 for titers. That's ridiculous. The vets who do a fair amount of titer testing around here tend to charge about $85. That's still more than I want to pay, so I have my vets draw the blood (they charge me about $15 for blood draw and postage) and send it to Dr. Schultz lab at the University of Wisconson. Schultz charges $25 for the titer. So that's a total cost of $40. Otherwise, there are lots of little vaccine clinics in the area that pop up here and there and will do titer testing at a reasonable rate. VIP pet clinic is one I've used.


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

I edited my post to show what was on the card they mailed, and Abbey will be 16 months old on March 12th/16. At 7 weeks she had distemper, hepatitis, parainfluenza and parvovirus, at 11 weeks the same and at 16 week (March 3/15) again plus rabies & bordetella. I had asked not to have the rabies included in the last shot but saw later they added it, that's when I changed to my present vet. She was ill after the last shot and I felt it was the rabies, but of course can't be sure.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Oh, I see now that you said they want to do "k9-annual vacc" (I would find out exactly what this includes...chances are it is a vaccine cocktail and more than just the core Distemper and Parvo), k9 bordetella add on and rabies add on-1 year.

About Bordetella, I feel like it is sort of a pointless vaccine because it only covers some of many strains. However, it's also a pretty benign vaccine, especially if you request the **intranasal**. I do go ahead and vaccinate my dogs once annually for bordetella because I am actively involved in training and competing in obedience. The vaccine is required for training. It is a lifestyle vaccine, though, and really not at all necessary if you don't regularly board your dogs or take them to a training or grooming facility where it is a requirement.

Rabies vaccination is required by law, at least in the US, so you do have to follow the law. We are legally allowed a 3 year vaccine where I live, and so regardless of a vet's potential preference for a 1 year vaccine (only a few still do 1 year around here), my dogs only ever get the 3 year vaccine. It is actually an identical vaccine with the same amount of vaccine. It's just that one product has been labeled for 1 year and one has been labeled for 3 years. So it is definitely not in the best interest of the dog to get the 1 year, as it would have to be repeated 3 times as often! 

It is important that rabies be separated from any other vaccines by a few weeks.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Caddy said:


> I edited my post to show what was on the card they mailed, and Abbey will be 16 months old on March 12th/16. At 7 weeks she had distemper, hepatitis, parainfluenza and parvovirus, at 11 weeks the same and at 16 week (March 3/15) again plus rabies & bordetella. I had asked not to have the rabies included in the last shot but saw later they added it, that's when I changed to my present vet. She was ill after the last shot and I felt it was the rabies, but of course can't be sure.


Okay, at 16 months you're in a position where you could go ahead and do one final *three year* (don't do the 1 year! same amount of vaccine....) Distemper + Parvo vaccine (check to see what all is in that K9 vaccine......) and then start titering in lieu of vaccines starting in 3 years when the vaccines "expire". OR - you could just start titering now. Read up on Dr. Dodds' protocol to make your decision. 

What is the rabies law where you live? Is it a legal requirement? In most states in the US, puppies must be vaccinated for rabies sometime around 4-6 months, and then again 1 year later. The 4-6 month vaccine is only good for 1 year. Any subsequent rabies vaccines can be 3 year vaccines after that.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I did puppy shots and that's it. No booster at a year, no more vaccines _ever_...(except I'll do rabies) on the advice of a homeopathic vet who has credentials up the ying yang. I ignore those notices.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I did puppy shots and that's it. No booster at a year, no more vaccines _ever_...(except I'll do rabies) on the advice of a homeopathic vet who has credentials up the ying yang. I ignore those notices.


Since you do not give a one-year booster for Parvo and Distemper, do you ever do titers just to check?

Dakota is due for his one-year booster this coming May and I have 3 choices: 1) do titers, 2) have the vet give him the 4-in-1 booster which contains Distemper & Parvo and 2 others, or 3) Order the single-dose Distemper and Parvo myself and give it to vet.

I hesitate to order the single dose vaccinations because I am worried about temperature control during shipment and at our house with our present refrigerator.

I am tempted to have them do titers in April when they draw blood for the yearly heartworm test, then if the titer levels are not good enough, have them give him the 4-in-1 vaccination in early May and the 3-year rabies near the end of May.

If he does get a one-year booster, I only plan to do titers in the future. It is just this first year I am a little unsure about.


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## katbrat (May 8, 2011)

Lexi just turned five and I have decided to do titers. My vet's office when I asked about it made it sound like I was either kind of wacko or really didn't understand what it was I was asking about. I finally asked the vet tech if this was something that was an option or did I need to find another vet. I really love Lexi's vet and while I know she personally won't be too crazy to do it, she will do it if I want it done. This really all came to light for me after reading and doing research. I also know someone who's standard came down with an auto immune disease within months of being vaccinated within the past year. I am not anti vaccine, I am just more educated that I have been in the past.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

MiniPoo said:


> Since you do not give a one-year booster for Parvo and Distemper, do you ever do titers just to check?
> 
> Dakota is due for his one-year booster this coming May and I have 3 choices: 1) do titers, 2) have the vet give him the 4-in-1 booster which contains Distemper & Parvo and 2 others, or 3) Order the single-dose Distemper and Parvo myself and give it to vet.
> 
> ...



Both my breeder and my Vet recommended doing the one year booster (half a dose because of Timi's size), so I went ahead and did it. Honestly I am not even sure if it was the four way combo because I figured, no big deal, it will be her last one. We will begin titering her in 3 years. I am glad that my new vet is in favor of titers - she charges a reasonable amount, just a little bit more than the vaccine, and offers a free vaccine should it turn out that your dog needs it.
My old Vet did not believe in titers, and as "punishment" charged in the $400 range - I would have something to say about that if I was still going to him today!
The second rabies is what I am really worried about - Timi had a big hard lump where she got the first one that took many months to dissipate (I think I can still find a tiny lump if I look for it), so I am mighty worried about how she will handle the second one - I have a holistic Vet scoped out in case my regular vet refuses to "work with me" on this!


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

I'm not sure about the rabies law for the first year, but it is law every three years here also. It's so hard to decide what to do, but I do know I don't want to put anything in her she does not need. I may go with the first year boosters and start titer testing after that but want to give it some more thought first. I do worry that because her first shots were done at 7 instead of 8 weeks that they may not have been effective. I do think that the high price for titers testing is an attempt to discourage people from doing it. I hope this won't effect the relationship with my vet as that's never a good thing, but it is kind of like saying I don't respect your professional opinion. I wish I could find one who was more open to testing.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Caddy said:


> I'm not sure about the rabies law for the first year, but it is law every three years here also. It's so hard to decide what to do, but I do know I don't want to put anything in her she does not need. I may go with the first year boosters and start titer testing after that but want to give it some more thought first. I do worry that because her first shots were done at 7 instead of 8 weeks that they may not have been effective. I do think that the high price for titers testing is an attempt to discourage people from doing it. I hope this won't effect the relationship with my vet as that's never a good thing, but it is kind of like saying I don't respect your professional opinion. I wish I could find one who was more open to testing.


The reason puppies get vaccinated multiple times (8, 12 and 16 weeks or whatever similar schedule) is not that it actually takes multiple shots to build up sufficient immunity. It's actually done because we aren't ever quite sure when the maternal antibodies will be low enough that the vaccine will be able to mount an immune response (without being blocked by the maternal antibodies) and create immunity. So, we try a few different times hoping that one of them will hit the jackpot. At this point, it really makes no difference at all whether the first vaccine was too early or not. All that actually matters is whether the last vaccine was properly timed or not.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

MiniPoo said:


> Since you do not give a one-year booster for Parvo and Distemper, do you ever do titers just to check?
> 
> Dakota is due for his one-year booster this coming May and I have 3 choices: 1) do titers, 2) have the vet give him the 4-in-1 booster which contains Distemper & Parvo and 2 others, or 3) Order the single-dose Distemper and Parvo myself and give it to vet.
> 
> ...



You know..I plan on titers here pretty soon. But really, they should be protected. Actually, the vet I used said that the first puppy shot given by the breeder was unnecessary. It's done so early that they probably are protected from the mother's antibodies. It's not only a waste to immunize if they're already immune, (one cancels the other) it also can be harmful. So, titers are definitely my personal preference to automatically vaccinating anytime after the very first series of puppy shots. 

Here's an article, involved, long, but *fascinating *and informative I think.

A New Look At Vaccines | ANHC Education Programs


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## Girlnotboy (May 28, 2014)

CharistmaticMillie, how does the veterinary establishment know that the reason for multiple puppy vaccines is because of when maternal antibodies decline and not because multiple vaccines are needed to build antibody responses? I don't know about canine immunology, but if it's anything like human immunology, response level and duration depend on the vaccine type (and of course, there are individual variations). In humans, live attenuated vaccines generally produce more robust and longer-lasting (sometimes lifelong) responses, killed or inactivated vaccines need multiple administrations to take, and subunit vaccines elicit even weaker responses. Thanks from a poodle mom who also doesn't want to over-vaccinate.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I'll put it this way. I'm more afraid of vaccinosis than I am of the diseases the vaccines supposedly protect against, now that my dogs are past puppy age. Many diseases in our history that people assume were eradicated because of vaccines were in many cases on their way out anyhow and it was coincidence that the vaccines were given around the same time. Parvo for puppies, I'm afraid of and careful about.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Girlnotboy said:


> CharistmaticMillie, how does the veterinary establishment know that the reason for multiple puppy vaccines is because of when maternal antibodies decline and not because multiple vaccines are needed to build antibody responses? I don't know about canine immunology, but if it's anything like human immunology, response level and duration depend on the vaccine type (and of course, there are individual variations). In humans, live attenuated vaccines generally produce more robust and longer-lasting (sometimes lifelong) responses, killed or inactivated vaccines need multiple administrations to take, and subunit vaccines elicit even weaker responses. Thanks from a poodle mom who also doesn't want to over-vaccinate.


Because I also am not an immunologist, I do not know exactly the scientific explanation/specifics of how they know, but I do know that Dr. Ronald Schultz, canine immunology expert and leading canine vaccine researcher, has conducted serological and challenge studies dating back to the 1970s. So, it is research based knowledge. According to Schultz, one properly timed vaccine at 16 weeks or later should provide long lasting, in many cases even_lifelong immunity _for _Distemper _and _Parvovirus_ (these are modified live virus vaccines). The exceptions to this would be if the vaccine was blocked by residual maternal antibodies (which is why he recommends a titer test 2 weeks after the final puppy vaccine) or a genetic nonresponder who is not capable of developing immunity through vaccination (this is inherited and the dog should not be bred).

I am sure you could contact Dr. Ronald Schultz and he or someone on his team would be happy to explain it all in detail. In the meantime, I can attempt to dig up some interviews with Schultz that I've read in the past.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Vaccinations (22JUN13-23JUN13) 

Click to listen to interview--> http://traffic.libsyn.com/woofmeowshow/WoofMeowShow-2013-06-22-Vaccinations-1.mp3
Why they are important, Core Vaccines & Vaccination Schedules 

Summary of interview linked above:

"Core Vaccines

Vaccines are important because they can prevent some very serious vaccine preventable diseases that can make animals very sick and can even kill. Since the veterinary profession started to reexamine vaccines in the 2000’s, they have come up with the term “core vaccines” to identify the vaccinations that all animals should have. These vaccines are so effective that they will prevent the disease in all appropriately vaccinated animals.

According to Dr. Schultz, dogs should receive the following core vaccines Canine Distemper Virus (CDV), Canine Parvovirus (CPV-2), Canine Adenovirus-1 (Infectious Canine Hepatitis [ICH])/Canine Adenovirus-2 and Rabies Virus (RV). The latter is not only important for the dog, but because it is usually fatal and can be transmitted to humans, it is considered a public health issue.

Dr. Schultz recommends that cats receive the following core vaccines; Feline Parvovirus (Panleukopenia) Virus (formerly known as feline distemper distemper)FPV, Feline Calicivirus (respiratory) (FCV), Feline Herpes Type 1 Virus (FHV-1), and Rabies Virus (RV).

Vaccine Schedules

Since the late 1990’s there has been a big change in the recommendations for how often our pets should be vaccinated. For years vaccinations were given annually as part of a pet’s annual wellness exam. This changed with the eventual recognition that pets were being over vaccinated, which in turn in some cases was causing pets to become very ill or to even die.

Dr. Schultz indicates that dogs should not receive any vaccinations before they are six weeks of age. This is because a puppy/kitten gets some immunity through antibodies in their mother’s milk. Those antibodies help protect the puppy/kitten from disease but also will interfere with vaccinations. This is why puppies and kittens receive multiple vaccinations. Although the antibodies in the milk interfere with vaccinations, under no circumstances should you prevent the puppy/kitten from getting these antibodies.

Recommended vaccination schedule: Start at 8-10 weeks, give a second dose 3 to 4 weeks later and then a final dose an additional 3 to 4 weeks later, making sure it is at 14 to 16 weeks of age. By then the mother’s antibodies will not interfere with the vaccinations.

After these initial puppy/kitten vaccinations, Dr. Schultz recommends doing a titer test or revaccination when the puppy/kitten is a year of age and then revaccinating or re-titering no more frequently than every 3 years.

Some breeds (Rottweiler’s and Doberman’s) do not develop an immune response as easily, especially to the canine parvo vaccine. However, studies have demonstrated that if that last dose is at 14-16 weeks of age at least 98% of puppies will get immunized, regardless of breed.

What Determines How Long A Vaccine is Effective?

It’s the specific vaccine and the disease it was designed to prevent that determines how long it will confer immunity. All of the core vaccines, except Rabies, are modified live vaccines. This means that they actually must infect the animal in order to have an immunization effect and therefore must contain an attenuated version of the actual virus. The immunity that is conferred by this type of vaccine, just like the core vaccines for children (measles, mumps rubella), provide long term immunity because they are live, replicating viruses, much like the immunity one would get if one were actually infected with and recovered from those diseases. Immunity conferred by these vaccines is typically many years to a lifetime. If you get measles or are vaccinated for measles as a child you will not get it again anytime in your life, even if you are exposed. That is the same with distemper, parvo, and the other core animal vaccines. That’s why back in the 1970’s Dr. Schultz and others started questioning the need for annual revaccinations of our pets. In other words, for the core vaccines that include a modified live virus, once a pet has had their puppy series and their revaccination at one year of age, they should be immune for life and should NOT require further vaccination. This is why instead of revaccinating annually Dr. Schultz recommends that we only consider revaccination every three or more years. His personal preference is to do titer testing every three years. A disadvantage of titers is they can be more expensive than revaccinating, but it is much safer to do a titer because while the adverse reactions to vaccines are fairly small they still can occur. Plus it’s just not good medical practice to give a vaccine that’s not needed."

Vaccination Interviews with Dr. Ron Schultz ? May 2013 - Pet Health - Green Acres Kennel Shop


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Both my breeder and my Vet recommended doing the one year booster (half a dose because of Timi's size), so I went ahead and did it. Honestly I am not even sure if it was the four way combo because I figured, no big deal, it will be her last one. We will begin titering her in 3 years. I am glad that my new vet is in favor of titers - she charges a reasonable amount, just a little bit more than the vaccine, and offers a free vaccine should it turn out that your dog needs it.
> My old Vet did not believe in titers, and as "punishment" charged in the $400 range - I would have something to say about that if I was still going to him today!
> The second rabies is what I am really worried about - Timi had a big hard lump where she got the first one that took many months to dissipate (I think I can still find a tiny lump if I look for it), so I am mighty worried about how she will handle the second one - I have a holistic Vet scoped out in case my regular vet refuses to "work with me" on this!


Tiny, I was also worried because Zoe had a horrible reaction to her first rabies shot. That was her only reaction in all her vax.
I was very worried for the second. My vet had me purchase benadryl which was cheaper then her administering and I gave to her before the shot. Zoe sailed through the vaccination with no problems.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

mom2Zoe said:


> Tiny, I was also worried because Zoe had a horrible reaction to her first rabies shot. That was her only reaction in all her vax.
> 
> I was very worried for the second. My vet had me purchase benadryl which was cheaper then her administering and I gave to her before the shot. Zoe sailed through the vaccination with no problems.



What kind of reaction did Zoe have? I would think that Benadryl would only cover an allergic reaction?


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

For Dakota who is due for a one-year booster this May, I have decided to get titers for Parvo and Distemper in April when they draw blood for a heartworm test. If his levels are too low, then I will get the 4-in-1 booster that does not have lepto. Then I will titer every 3 years.

I am curious what the titer test will show at the one year point. I will post the results when I get them.

I think benadryl also helps with swelling as well as with an allergic reaction. I will probably give it to Dakota before any vaccination.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> What kind of reaction did Zoe have? I would think that Benadryl would only cover an allergic reaction?




It probably would. She threw up for two days straight with shaking. She refused to go on a leash walk for over a week and she just was not herself.She also had swelling of the area.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

MiniPoo said:


> For Dakota who is due for a one-year booster this May, I have decided to get titers for Parvo and Distemper in April when they draw blood for a heartworm test. If his levels are too low, then I will get the 4-in-1 booster that does not have lepto. Then I will titer every 3 years.
> 
> I am curious what the titer test will show at the one year point. I will post the results when I get them.
> 
> I think benadryl also helps with swelling as well as with an allergic reaction. I will probably give it to Dakota before any vaccination.



I think if you don't do the one year booster then you need to titer every year? My vet said that since the vaccine is approved for three years, you do the titer after three years, and then every year there after.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

mom2Zoe said:


> It probably would. She threw up for two days straight with shaking. She refused to go on a leash walk for over a week and she just was not herself.She also had swelling of the area.



How long did it take the swelling to go down? Timi had more of a lump under the skin where the vaccine went in - actually I could feel two lumps with a small trail between them, like the needle moved as it was being injected.
Maybe I will ask for benedryl before - it couldn't hurt, right?


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> How long did it take the swelling to go down? Timi had more of a lump under the skin where the vaccine went in - actually I could feel two lumps with a small trail between them, like the needle moved as it was being injected.
> Maybe I will ask for benedryl before - it couldn't hurt, right?


I do not recall how long. I would since it couldn't hurt and could only help.
I do not know if it helped not get a reaction or we just got lucky. It at least helped with the swelling since there was none the second time.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I think if you don't do the one year booster then you need to titer every year? My vet said that since the vaccine is approved for three years, you do the titer after three years, and then every year there after.


I mean, it's really up to the facility accepting the titer. I've found that most training and boarding facilities require a new titer test every year. However, if I was only titering for my own knowledge, I probably wouldn't do it every single year.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I mean, it's really up to the facility accepting the titer. I've found that most training and boarding facilities require a new titer test every year. However, if I was only titering for my own knowledge, I probably wouldn't do it every single year.



That would be ridiculous of them to require a yearly titer when the label for the vaccine has been changed to read three years. Do they ask for titers for the 3 year rabies vaccine?
Yes, after the three years after parvo/distemper vaccine has expired, I can see hem asking for an annual titer, but not before that. Timi's Vet receipts read that she is not due for the parvo/distemper for three years after it was given. After her first titer, it will read that she is due in a year.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Titering is not common up here; however, after one of my dogs had a big huge life-threatening reaction to a rabies shot, now I am seriously over-cautious!!! We don't have any law about rabies or any other shots in Northern BC. So for my Bostons, I am not getting any more shots after the one-year shots. And never rabies at the same time as any other shots. Where we live, there are tons of wildlife interactions so I do feel rabies is important (I see wildlife on my property daily). BUUUUTTTTT, how important? Which one is more likely to kill, shots or bites from rabid wildlife???


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I don't ever have puppies, but I have not ever given a vaccination to a dog. I do the 3 year rabie and that is it ! I have never had a sickly dog, all my dogs have lived to be very old... so I don't plan to be making any changes.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Indiana, far and away the answer to your last question is bites from rabid wildlife!


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## shantikeyz (Mar 4, 2016)

I vaccinate our dogs, 2 times as puppies then only every 5 years after, unless old age is really getting rough then I skip it. 
Rabies is law here, every 3 years. With that and the fact that Rabies kills and something as simple as bat droppings can carry it, we do Rabies. 
I've never had a lump after any vaccine. I learned from raising the livestock to rub the area briskly and with pressure for 1 minute at least. That pushes the contests into the tissue avoiding a lump. My vet does it too. 
No lumps in any animals, ever. 

Sent from my XT1055 using Tapatalk


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Tiny Poodles said:


> That would be ridiculous of them to require a yearly titer when the label for the vaccine has been changed to read three years. Do they ask for titers for the 3 year rabies vaccine?
> Yes, after the three years after parvo/distemper vaccine has expired, I can see hem asking for an annual titer, but not before that. Timi's Vet receipts read that she is not due for the parvo/distemper for three years after it was given. After her first titer, it will read that she is due in a year.


I can't imagine why anyone would run a titer test prior to the time that their vet records show the previous vaccination had expired to use in lieu of proof of vaccination... Since they would have...current proof of vaccination! 

What do you mean about titering for the 3 year rabies vaccine? I doubt that any facilities would accept a rabies titer instead of a current vaccine since it is a legally required vaccine.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I can't imagine why anyone would run a titer test prior to the time that their vet records show the previous vaccination had expired to use in lieu of proof of vaccination... Since they would have...current proof of vaccination!
> 
> What do you mean about titering for the 3 year rabies vaccine? I doubt that any facilities would accept a rabies titer instead of a current vaccine since it is a legally required vaccine.



Never mind - I thought that you said that the facilities near you asked for annual titers on parvo/distemper, even before the 3 year vaccine expired. I know that nobody accepts rabies titers.


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

Lily had a similar reaction as Zoe- gastric problems that progressed to hemmorhagic gastroenteritis and a stay in ICU at the emergency clinic. 

I had two vets that said they would sign the medical exempt form. However, if I chose to go this route, Lily's life would drastically change. There would be no more agility, she couldn't travel with us, she couldn't even walk in the neighborhood. NYS allows the exemption, but the animal can't be in public. Which makes sense. 

We also live in the edge of a nature preserve and I couldn't guarantee that she wouldn't come into contact with wildlife, even in our backyard. 

Bottom line is that Lily is not a senior dog the spends her life on the couch and uses a pee pad. She's VERY active, and needs to be!

So after talking to my vet, I decided to give her the rabies booster and she did fine. I was prepared for the worst, ready to dart to the ER at any moment- but she didn't even lose her appetite! It was such a relief.

You can give Benadryl, you can also give thuja which helps with vaccinosis. But I think only in very rare instances should rabies be withheld. It is a public safety issue. I understand wanting to protect your dog at all cost, and I originally thought I would NEVER give Lily another vaccine, as it was such a scary experience. But she lived, and the memory faded to the point where I could be rational about it.

Here's the link to the exempt form for NY 
http://www.agriculture.ny.gov/AI/vetpage/Rabies Exempt Form.pdf


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