# The cult of the pit



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I know everybody gets tired of the same old pitbull stuff but I just read this article and found it really interesting since it contains first hand experiences from people here in San Diego
from both PB owners, and the people who have been attacked...
I can't get the link to work, but if you GOOGLE ; The Cult of the Pit it should come up, it was published in the San Diego Reader on April 22, 2015 as their cover story.......


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

That would be so scary and hard to think straight in the heat of an attack, and for the pit owner to now deny that her dog bit is adding insult to injury. I already had a healthy fear of them, but the last time we attended dog social and that lady brought her muzzled pit in was enough for me. The muzzle may have prevented a bite but he still charged a dog driving them both through a fence. I hate to lump a whole breed together but I just don't trust them.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Wasn't it amazing about the girl on the beach who held that PB's head underwater til it let go of her dog? One brave girl to drag that dog into the water huh?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

The attitude of many bully breed owners is certainly very cultish and far more dangerous an attitude than the zealous beliefs of those who berate people for buying well bred puppies from good breeders rather than rescuing.

I think the disproportionate representation of PBs and pit mixes in those bite statistics is the compelling evidence that should make all but the most experienced of dog handlers think twice about keeping these dogs. There are some people who can handle them well, but that isn't most of us.

I do have to take exception to the mention of GSDs and dobermans as dangerous breeds though. All of the dobes I know are cream puffs and the only thing Peeves might do is lick someone to death. I know there are folks who are afraid of them, but then again there are some scary chihuahuas in the world too. With the pits it is their disproportionate representation in these data that is alarming.

Caddy no matter the breed I don't think a dog that is so likely to bite that it needs a muzzle should be allowed at a normal dog socialization session. the bad energy that such a dog carries with it will alter the group dynamic and possibly bring out unexpected adverse responses from other dogs.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

I think this link. Its been hacked here and there by the pit bull lobby!!

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2015/apr/22/cover-cult-pit-bull/

And a bit more with pit bull bull-S%%%

http://fourleggedfriendsandenemies.blogspot.com.au/2015/04/the-cult-of-pit-you-love-me-now-but.html

And in reply:



https://www.facebook.com/SDReader/posts/963596667005818

Eric


Eric


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

The comments related to your article lead me to read the following one. How ironic and sad !

Darla Napora: Pregnant woman dies after being mauled by pet dog in living room | Daily Mail Online


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Entire countries have banned the breed! 12 according to Google. They are unwelcome on U.S. military bases. I resent their disproportionate representation in our shelters because as Lily CD noted very few owners are capable of controlling them once they are adults. 

As to the San Diego article, I was amazed at the power of love and adrenaline. Dragging a red zone dog into the surf to save their dog...I wish they had been able to hold it under until it drowned. An expert trainer of aggressive dogs, horribly injured because the pb displaced aggression from a random dog in a line of dog filled crates onto her. If you own one, you better have a break stick, know how to use it and plenty of liability insurance.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

*For Catherine*

This is what you need to beware of:









This was the cure:









Eric:ahhhhh:


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

Dechi that article is so sad, I don't understand the husband burying the dog with his wife and unborn child.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

lily cd re said:


> The attitude of many bully breed owners is certainly very cultish and far more dangerous an attitude than the zealous beliefs of those who berate people for buying well bred puppies from good breeders rather than rescuing.
> 
> I think the disproportionate representation of PBs and pit mixes in those bite statistics is the compelling evidence that should make all but the most experienced of dog handlers think twice about keeping these dogs. There are some people who can handle them well, but that isn't most of us.
> 
> ...


My last poodle, Jake, was viciously attached by an offleash Doberman when he was 1 1/2. The vet is surprised there was no nerve damage as he really grabbed him, shook him and the owner got him to drop Jake. Jake and I were minding our own business -- I was actually taking a pic of Jake so he was off leash. As I snapped the shot out of the corner of my eye I saw this huge Doberman charging him and as he ran by he picked him up and almost killed him. That's my only experience with a Doberman, but I will continue to be very wary.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

liljaker I am wary of every dog I meet that I don't know no matter its size or breed. For me the super wariness factor kicks in with rotties since every bad experience Lily has had with dogs we didn't know has been with a rottie, except for one, a pit. Again with pits, it is that they are disproportionate in the bite stats.

And for Dechi and Caddy, I too thought that burying the dog with the wife and unborn child was pretty warped too.

Eric, thanks for some levity along the way here, but after smashing the toilet, where did the snake end up going? LOL


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

*Snakes*

If you can believe the guy who originally posted the "snake in the toilet" pix. He said he hit the snake with the hammer and the broken toilet was due to "collateral damage". The snake was VERY poisonous. I have it on good authority that trouser snakes outnumber toilet snakes 1000:1 in Manhattan. It would be a worry! Dying or being very sick from snake bite is bad enough but swelling up for nine months then suffering for 20 years or so afterward would put me off!!!
Eric:aetsch:


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

ERIC!!!!! I'm sending you to the 'Nasty Mat'.......... Hahaha!


P.S. Trouser snakes are definitely extinct in MY apt complex............................


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## snmim (Sep 7, 2015)

Whenever I see a pit during a walk, I go the other way. I don't really care what the owner thinks of me. I have a neighbor that lets his pit off leash and it charged Mira once.. I got in the way and grabbed his head before he could get to her. The owner kept saying he was friendly, and thankfully he was but they are still so unpredictable. I'm a young girl and I like to think that I was not afraid to hustle that dog to the ground!


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## marialydia (Nov 23, 2013)

It's a deadly combination: pit bulls are unpredictable, and their owners are trying to prove something. "I am tough, don't mess with me" for some of them; "Love conquers all and MY doggie is sweet" at the other end of the spectrum.

Twice now at a beautiful local dog run with Pericles, owners have come with pits who as soon as they are in, rush Pericles with their hackles up. Thankfully Pericles is very athletic and swift, and has good recall. Each time we are out of there fast, and now we don't go there anymore. All while their owners are telling me how gentle their dogs are (this area skews toward the kindly rescuer of misunderstood dogs).

I agree with Lilycd about rotties. Jupiter still bears a patch of dark hair (his birth color) where the adopted rottweiler attacked him four years ago.

Although it is extreme, I would tend to agree that pit bulls released to shelters because of aggression should be euthanised.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Although it is extreme, I would tend to agree that pit bulls released to shelters because of aggression should be euthanised.

*Marialydia I don't necessarily think that is extreme. I rather think that whatever the breed or mix of breeds a dog that is turned over to a shelter or rescue because of an aggressive history is a candidate for euthanasia.

*I would put conditions on that. 1. The aggressive behaviors have to be very well documented by objective evaluators. 2. The aggression history (whether against people or other animals) has to be high level bite behavior with broken skin. Dogs that lack bite inhibition as a dog that breaks skin lacks are never likely to be trustworthy. Bite inhibition is best learned by puppies from their dams and siblings. It should be our goal to eliminate these kinds of behaviors from the repertoire of behaviors seen in our companions, both through choosing temperaments carefully in breeding stock and culling those behaviors from the adult dog population so that dogs that might have iffy temperaments aren't pushed into the red zone by having to respond to dogs that live there all the time.


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## sophie anne (Feb 17, 2015)

The pitbull crowd is very similar to the NRA crowd in the US—they value "freedom" over common sense regulations to keep tragic and preventable things from happening. If you ask me, both represent a selfish version of freedom in which one person's desire to own something dangerous is valued over another person's right to not be permanently disfigured or killed by that thing. :2in1:

Pitbulls, even the aggressive, undersocialized ones, _can_ be managed successfully by the right people, but _not without risk_. The fact is that there are far fewer people that can manage these dogs than dangerous dogs in shelters.

Realistically, the majority of those dangerous dogs are going to go home with people that will mismanage them (California woman’s 9-year-old brother mauled to death by her pit bull ‘wolfpack’ while she was away at work ) if they are not humanely euthanized, following Catherine's post with guidelines for defining a "dangerous" dog.

_An example of a very dangerous dog who has been successfully rehabilitated to a good quality of life:_
Sugar was adopted by one of my geology professors and her wife last fall. She came from a rescue, and not much was known about Sugar's past because she was found wandering with severe injuries to her face, neck and back. It looked like she had been in a fight with an animal, possibly another dog, and/or had acid/another chemical irritant or a very hot liquid poured all over her. She snarled and snapped violently at anyone who looked in her direction. I'll admit I took one look at her in the first few days and thought that she was a lost cause.

My professor immediately adopted her, before it was even clear that she was going to survive her injuries, and the college fund-raised to cover the cost of her treatment. One major complicating factor was the fact that she needed to wear a muzzle because she failed every test for bite inhibition and aggression using a false hand on a stick, but her face injuries made that impractical for most situations (the muzzle would have interfered with bandages and healing). She was kept separated from people in the professor's house and sedated using treat-covered pills when she needed medical treatment for the first few weeks... luckily she had a voracious appetite.

Slowly, Sugar started calming down, and the door to the room where she was sequestered could be left open so that she could hear the sounds of people, and then "her" people could look at her, then friendly familiar people could look at her, etc. Probably partly as she healed and partly as she recognized that nobody was going to force her to do anything she wasn't ready for. Students would come by the house with the sole job of tossing treats into the room while talking to the prof, to desensitize Sugar and do some rehabilitative socialization.

Sugar has come a million miles since she was adopted. I wish I had a before video for you, but we didn't take them in the earliest days (she was violently terrified by phones or anything else that was new or different). Just look up a video of a rabid beast and you will get a solid idea of what she was like.

Now, she goes to obedience classes (wearing a muzzle of course) and would seem to be a totally normal dog to anybody that didn't know her. She lives with 8 cats and has no issue being gentle with them. That said, she can never be let loose with kids, would be dangerous off-leash around other dogs, and she wears a muzzle consistently in her daily life both to keep her used to it and because certain things can still trigger her. Her owners can probably never move from their secluded farmhouse to a more populated area for safety reasons.

Sugar is *not* a normal dog, and her owners go out of their way to explain this to people when they try to make her into a story of "not all pitbulls are dangerous". She _is_ a happy, healthy, and living a life that was almost denied to her because of the cruelty of the people that brought her into the world. This couple just happened to have the time, life circumstance ($$$), and education to be able to rehabilitate this very messed up and dangerous dog.

Here is Sugar now:
[click image for video]
Sugar

It's _people_ who disproportionately cause the problems that their pit bulls ultimately pay the price for (just like it's people who wield guns that their victims pay the price for). Many breeds, GSDs and dobermans included, can be extremely dangerous.

I say protect the people from their own stupidity, whether their stupidity endangers others from bullets or teeth or toothy bullets, but good luck passing any legislation on the national level in the US on either of those things!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I've been thinking about this since you posted last night sophie anne and there is one more condition that should apply which is thorough vetting of the people who want to adopt dogs that have passed the first criteria. As you so ably said there are some extraordinary people who can handle dogs like Sugar. These people are exceptionally smart, patient and willing to concede defeat* if that is what it comes to. Most people couldn't, shouldn't or wouldn't want to (put me in the last group).

*I know a woman who had a rescued Aussie. The dog had many issues that she dealt with very patiently for about 2 years. He had been reactively fearful of all men. She got him to be able to relax when men were present. She was very proactive in telling everyone she met that the dog was fearful of men and controlled how people approached. The dog was clearly very bonded to her. She did agility with him. His other issue was food bowl guarding. She had also worked very hard on his resource guarding with apparent great success. Then one day when she reached to pick up his empty bowl he broke a stay and turned around and bit her on the face. She had to be hospitalized for plastic surgery and IV antibiotics. The dog immediately was taken to the town shelter and euthanized after a rabies hold. She recognized that he could never really be trusted and since there were young children in her extended family she felt she could no longer keep the dog nor risk his making a worse attack on someone else who might have adopted him. Her other dogs are bouviers and she had fostered other dogs that had need for behavioral rehab previously. I consider her an expert handler and trainer.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

sophie anne said:


> I say protect the people from their own stupidity


this says it all.

pr


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Iris was attacked by a pit mix many years ago....something neither of us would ever want to experience again. Thankfully her injuries, though awful, were not as severe as many have received.

She had known this dog her whole life and the attack was TOTALLY unprovoked with no waning signs. I was standing right next to Iris in the middle of the back yard while she watched birds in the trees, then BAM....attack. It took 2 of us quite a while to remove the other dog from Iris' neck.

The dogs are living time bombs, IMHO.

Viking Queen


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

I am sorry to agree that many Rottweilers are improperly trained and handled which leads to them earning a nasty reputation. When we were active at the training yard, we were called on many times to bring our Rottweiler in to help "heal" dogs that had bad experiences in the show ring with Rottweilers. Our rotty had been socialized daily from the day we got him (my daughter and I both handled him because we knew how very important it was that he be well trained) and he was quite the gentle giant. We had the right attitude about Rottweiler ownership starting with his name. I would not allow my daughter to choose any weapon names... so we ended up with Cubby. It sounds silly bit having a "soft" name helps remind you that you want your dog to be friendly. Having lived with the Rottweiler and a Kuvasz, I am of the opinion that there are many breeds that the general public (with little training experience) has no business owning.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Charmed I couldn't agree more about there being many breeds that aren't suitable for inexperienced handlers! Lily's rehab rottie is named Joy BTW!


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

I am not a fan of pit bulls. They are terriers at heart, and some of them are a lot of dog. Not something I personally would want to deal with. 

The latest thing here is cane corsos, which are even bigger with the same, gamey temperament. 

Of course, I'm not much of a fan of dogs over 50 pounds anyway...


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I had a pit go after my 4 pound poodle, which I have mentioned before, so all pits are plain dead meat to me.


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

Shamrockmommy, today was the first I've heard of a cane corsos breed, one was listed on our County watch page this morning as a "missing dog". I then came to PF and saw your posting, I'll have to google them now.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Caddy said:


> Shamrockmommy, today was the first I've heard of a cane corsos breed, one was listed on our County watch page this morning as a "missing dog". I then came to PF and saw your posting, I'll have to google them now.



Caddy you probably won't like what you find. They are a type of mastiff, very large and very powerful.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Every day I walk by our local anti-cruelty shelter and they have large windows through which you can look at see the kennels and many of the dogs who are there. I am always sad and concerned by the fact that nearly every kennel contains a pit bull or pit bull mix. Usually mixes, actually.

Someone in my building recently adopted a young American Staffordshire Terrier (pit bull) - or at least, I think it was a recent adoption, since I had never seen them before and now suddenly see them often) - and it has been an interesting experience progressing. At first, I wasn't concerned because I met them for the first time in the elevator and the owner was a woman - she had the AST on one leash and a cocker spaniel on another leash. She told me the staffie was 6 or 7 months old I think. The other dog was older and very calm. The presence of TWO dogs made me think Ok cool. And the staffie pup playfully bowed to Dulcie and Dulcie seemed to receive her approach gladly. Next time we met, Dulcie and the staffie again seemed interested in playing.

However, the third time I saw these dogs, they were int he company of a quite friendly man who wanted me to keep Dulcie at a distance and "don't be too friendly!". Hmmm

Two more encounters after that, same man, and each time he seemed friendly but concerned to keep the staffordshire pup away from Dulcie and on a tight leash. (BTW, I don't seek these people out - I am talking about casual encounters at the building's dog run).

The last time I saw them was a couple of nights ago. Dulcie was preparing to potty and the two dogs arrived in company this time with a younger man. He seemed to have an approach somewhere in the middle of the woman and the older man - he let the staffie run fast toward Dulcie and then seemed to think better of it and pulled her back. I decided to take DUlcie out of the area and wait outside until he and the other dogs were finished. 

Dulcie does not seem frightened of this pup and she seems always ready to engage in play with her. I haven't had the feeling yet that the staffie pup could be a threat due to its own playful behavior, and yet I am very conscious of her owner's caution.

SO, I intend to keep a distance and not ride the elevator with them. I notice, though, that the older man especially makes sure that he does not ride the elevator with people on his own.

I don't know where I am going with this but I guess it is that I just don't know what to think at times. I am definitely uncomfortable around pit bulls out and around and even with this one in my building. Yet, I ask myself am I being fair to a puppy who seems to want to play and after all she lives with an older smaller dog who seems perfectly at ease! Then again, when the owner himself is warning you to not get too close, well that is certainly a warning I intend to heed!


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

As some of you may know, I volunteer at the animal shelter. I would guess that 80% of the dogs are Pit or Pit mixes. They have all been very sweet, but I have to admit I am still a bit afraid of them. I take them outside to run free in the fenced in play area and they charge up to me at full speed and it is scary. We also put their pictures on fb, as they are all needing a new home, myself included and we all celebrate when one gets adopted, but it worries me a bit...So far there has never been any problems with new adoptions. 

A few months ago, I had our largest male in the play area and went in and took the next largest male out to walk him . The first male dug out of the fenced area in an instant and attacked the dog I had on leash. I had to drop the leash and fast walk to get help. I was afraid of triggering an attack on me if I had ran. The manager of the shelter ran out and she broke up the fight. I was scared to death... I would not have taken these dogs outside at the same time, but I was asked to because so many people will not take them out.

I have to say that I do love these dogs, they are so humble and sweet, just want to be loved so badly. It makes you want to rescue one and take it home, but i will never do it. I just would never take that chance. I would love to see a ban on the breed and maybe not have so many homeless dogs on this earth. It seems that they attract the worst and the best people . It makes me so sad.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Carley's Mom, does the shelter where you volunteer advise adopting families about potential dangers with them? At least your shelter pb's/crosses have been sterilized and evaluated somewhat for temperament. I feel like I have the right to be harsh since two Staffies attacked my last dog and husband. My husband has scars on his hand and forehead and whenever he talks about that night, I can tell he still suffers from PTSD. The large male needs to be euthanized. Thank God you were wise enough not to get in the middle.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

They did put the large male down. He was aggressive to every dog . The other one was there for 8 months, became a staff favorite. He went to a family with a teenager girl in the home. I hope it was a good home, but you never know for sure. Yes, they do test them for dog and cat aggression. They do a home check and they only adopt to homes with fenced in yards. They really try hard at this shelter, it is poor and $$$ is always an issue. But I can't say they don't try to make the stay at the shelter as nice as they can for the dogs and they really try to find homes or a rescue for the animals. Most of the dogs that are not Pits do get homes, I was surprised by how many do find homes, it is harder for the Pits and it is very sad. We had one named Rose, that just became a foster failure...LOL we came to know she was going to have puppies and a family took her to let her have them in a home with proper care. They have fallen for her big time, picture put up of her and the family almost daily. It will break your heart, but it also can make you smile.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

nifty said:


> Yet, I ask myself am I being fair to a puppy who seems to want to play and after all she lives with an older smaller dog who seems perfectly at ease! Then again, when the owner himself is warning you to not get too close, well that is certainly a warning I intend to heed!


I can relate to your conflict. Puppies are just so appealing. I remember reading on a breed forum that these dogs are usually ok as puppies. Because of this I would not foster any kind of relationship. From what I have learned about these types of dogs, it's too risky. I definitely don't want my dog to be any pit bull's first victim and then have to hear how he has "never done anything like that before." 

pr


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Thank you, Carley's Mom. I do feel badly. I sincerely love dogs. I am just so angry and frustrated that these dogs are now everyone's concern. Avoid at the dog park, in the elevator, on the street, but adopt at the shelter? I volunteered at one of Houston's no kill shelters before this breed and its crosses were the majority. There were none in 2000. None. Our residents were Heinz 57's or sad seniors. What a difference a decade or two makes


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## sophie anne (Feb 17, 2015)

FWIW, I would never let Ari anywhere near Sugar or any other adult bully type breed. All it takes is one poorly inhibited bite on a dog her size.

I would _consider_ letting her do some closely supervised play with a young bully puppy that weighed less than her: if nobody will let their dogs play with pitbull puppies (actual puppies, during that short 12-week socialization window), the pups will never learn bite inhibition and how to play appropriately with other dogs, which just perpetuates the tragic cycle.
:alberteinstein:


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

I should clarify that the staffie pup in my building is a 7 or more month old pup (I think that's what they said) and she is apparently nearly full grown and probably weighs 75 pounds or more. She is powerful and twice Dulcie's weight already. 

Carley's Mom, thanks for that perspective. 

Yikes, Mfmst, I can imagine that an attack like that would indeed leave anyone with PTSD. Ugh. The bully breed issue is an ongoing concern and that just stinks.


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## sophie anne (Feb 17, 2015)

nifty said:


> I should clarify that the staffie pup in my building is a 7 or more month old pup (I think that's what they said) and she is apparently nearly full grown and probably weighs 75 pounds or more. She is powerful and twice Dulcie's weight already.


Yeah, even by 5 months old, you're already doing damage control and hopefully disaster prevention on an undersocialized dog of that size.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I once said hello to a Pit puppy in my elevator, it must have been 3-4 months old. It jumped straight up, and grabbed about 2/3 of my face in it's mouth - lucky for me gravity took it down before it bit down. I said to the owner "wow, are you planning on taking him for obedience classes", and he replied "I don't really believe in obedience classes, the problem is the public shouldn't over-stimulate him"
Management warned him and he keeps it on a tight leash now. I still won't go within twenty feet of it and that was the last Pit I ever said hello to.
Now the 200 pound Mastiff in my building, I am thrilled when I catch an elevator with him in it, what a sweetheart!


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

*Pit Bull behavior and temperament.*

The behavior and temperament of pit-bull's is well known. As puppies they virtually all have excellent temperament and love their families/Handlers. A small percentage never develop any aggressive tendencies at all. Most dogs start to show dog aggressive problems at about 2 years age. A good trainer can curb these tendencies somewhat. Like all breeds some of them are plain aggressive from the start dog and human! Again a good trainer can curb this somewhat. A well and carefully trained pit-bull can be pleasant company and very good with children.

_*BUT:

*_This breed has a well documented social problem. They are prone to sudden changes in temperament. A bit like a time bomb with a faulty fuse. A two year old pitty who has shown nothing but love and playfulness will suddenly attack another dog without preamble. (most other dogs work up to a fight with gestures and threats, like drunken humans) A pitty who has been the constant and loving companion of a child for a year or two, will suddenly attack and kill. There is evidence that these breeds have been bred and trained to fight and kill, for not hundreds but for thousands of years. You can not breed out this inherent behavior in a few decades. You can not train out this problem. I need not present the statistics. When one breed-class is responsible for well over 70% of all fatal attacks on humans and more than that for serious bites. Then it is not surprising that some countries and states have totally banned them and others have strict control of them. But legislation need enforcement and enforcement agencies are loath to tackle the problem. Consequently even where pitties are banned, no action is taken unless a problem occurs. In my opinion that is then too late. All the above is without the more common problem of pit-bulls attacking and harming other dogs. There are no real statistics but the empiric evidence is that they feature more often than any other breed.

There are responsible pit-bull owners and handlers. There are forums on the net where responsible ownership is encouraged. There are also groups where the aggressive nature of these dogs is revered. "My dog is tough then so am I" People back yard breed these dogs for aggression. They still fight them for pleasure and gambling. They dognap small dogs for death training.

I was born in Staffordshire where it is my belief that the first pitt breed became registered. They were well known there and they were common. But the same traits were also known and it was known that you never have two in the one household. The American Pit bull Terrier is a banned breed here in Australia but the staffy is not banned. It has been found that the APBT is a more aggressive dog and not reliable in public.

My own view is: that anyone can own and handle any animal they wish. That animal needs care and if dangerous needs to be enclosed appropriately. Lions, tigers and gorillas are fine by me, as are pit bulls.

_*But keep them safe and keep us safe from them!!!

*_Eric


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## kayfabulous6 (Nov 19, 2013)

I visited a pet shop in my college town where the owner had a pit girl as well as a greyhound. Both were sweet as could be, trained, and very well cared for. 

On the other hand, around 20 minutes from where I live a woman was wheeling herself down the sidewalk in a wheelchair with her therapy dog (a chihuahua) on her lap, and a man with a pit walked by, the pit lunged and killed the little chi, and knocked the woman straight onto the sidewalk out of her chair. Police looked for the man for hours because he left the scene without even calling 911. 

People who cannot attend to the necessary training and care for a pit do not need one. With my girl Ruby only being 10 pounds, I am weary of any large dog around her- I can't help but think "what if." 

The difference of opinion will never be settled, unfortunately. People will continue to own dogs that they cannot handle, and more and more incidents like that one nearby me will occur that pin people up against one another. It's sad


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

I have never encountered a dog that just attacked "out of the blue". I have seen a lot of dogs that exhibited warning signs that their owners either ignored, or failed to see. The training yard that I was with was located next to Camp Pendleton. When the decree came down banning bully breeds, there was a grandfather clause that allowed for bullies already on the base to remain, if they earned their CGC. Liz Palika, having been a Marine herself, offered low cost classes to the military families to help them keep their pets. Each dog was carefully assessed, had to complete a basic obedience class (none had even basic skills) and then, had to pass the CGC within the the timeline given by the DOD. Some families were highly motivated to keep their dog, attended classes regularly, practiced at home, passed the CGC with flying colors, and thus got to keep their pet. Some struggled, but with extra lessons, also managed to pass. Then, we had the owners who sauntered in claiming their dogs had never been aggressive in its whole life as it lunged at the yard's two "litmus paper" temperament tester dogs. It was quickly apparent that their dogs could not be controlled in a class setting, especially when the owners thought that these dogs were just being friendly... and macho. Private lessons would be offered, but usually those owners did not think a woman trainer was reputable. I know that some of those dogs ended up in pitbull rescue; the others I have no idea... but they were not allowed to remain in base housing. So sad, when they had the training being offered, nearby, at a very affordable price that they would not even give their dogs a chance. I know some would not have passed, but to not even try... I was frustrated then and still don't understand the mentality.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

"but to not even try... I was frustrated then and still don't understand the mentality." 

And you may never do so. Yearly a higher percentage of western "children" have less education and less social skills. The reasons are there to be seen if you look. Not trying, has always been a problem with poorly disciplined and adjusted people. Sadly these are just the people to see a pitt-bull type as their ideal dog. But it is the wider community who suffer from their deficiencies.
Eric.


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