# mini poodle vs. havanese



## Skye

Hello,
I am researching dog breeds, and have decided to get either a miniature poodle or a havanese. I will be waiting a year or two, as I have young children, and we are planning to move sometime this year.

Both of these breeds are supposed to be allergy/kid friendly dogs, and a good size for our family. I had a chocolate miniature poodle as a child (as pictured), but have never really known anyone with a havanese. I am also researching on the havanese forum.

My question is, do any of you have experience with both breeds, and what comparisons would you make? In your opinion, how do these breeds differ?

Thank you in advance!


----------



## HiSocietyPoodle

I have a friend that has a Havanese male about 4 years old. It is a sweet lovable dog. It acts a lot like a Poodle, not quite as smart, but a great dog. I think it helped they spent time training him to be a good dog. They have kids but the youngest is 9 years old.


----------



## roxy25

Hi Skye I have no clue since I never been around a Havanese. 

You should contact Terry Farley he breeds and owns both. 
Red and Apricot Standard Poodle Farleys D Standard


----------



## cbrand

What do you want in a pet?

I think the Havanese is a happy, lovable, uncomplicated dog. The Mini is smart, alert, athletic (almost to a fault) and a world class working dog that is happiest doing things for and with its owner.

The Havanese probably does not think quite enough and the Mini probably thinks too much.


----------



## grooming goddess

Havanese have incredibly difficult coats to manage. All the ones I've ever groomed (around 20 different ones) have been quite nippy and barky and difficult to housebreak. I'd say the poodle wins hands down.


----------



## cbrand

grooming goddess said:


> Havanese have incredibly difficult coats to manage. All the ones I've ever groomed (around 20 different ones) have been quite nippy and barky and difficult to housebreak. I'd say the poodle wins hands down.


Really? Gosh that has not been my experience, but they are getting more popular so maybe these were puppy mill dogs? Seriously, the show dogs that I have seen have just been good, happy citizens.


----------



## Skye

In a pet, I would like a dog that is happy being with the family. One that will be trained to walk nicely on a leash, and will play fetch with us. I would like to teach the dogs a few tricks, but pretty much just a nice family dog. I am a stay-at-home Mom now, and we are home most all of the time. I worked as a hairdresser for over 20 years, so some brushing and grooming at home are fine. I will still take the dog to the groomer's regularly, but take care of the "in-between" stuff!

On the Havanese forum, I see that they are difficult to housebreak, and often suffer from separation anxiety. I had a long-haired dachshund that was supposed to be difficult to housebreak, but she was fine. I'm sure it depends on the dog, and consistency. 

No matter which breed I choose, it will come from a good breeder that does all of the health testing, socializing, etc. 

I need an allergy/kid friendly dog. I have a fondness for poodles, since that was my beloved childhood pet! But when I search what I am looking for, the havanese is right up there with the poodle. 

Thank you to everyone responding; just looking for some insight!

BTW, how many have separation anxiety problems with the minis?


----------



## brittwink21

Well if you want a dog that fetches, poodles are it. =) I don't think any puppy that is socialized properly should have separation anxiety. I would bare in mind that poodles are going to be easier to train, well because they are geniuses. But at the same time, they need to be kept busy or they can get into mischief, especially as puppies. They are smart and if your not entertaining them they will entertain themselves. That has been my experience.

For me I am sold out to poodles so I am biased, good luck with your decision.


----------



## artsycourtneysue

I was actually making a similar decision between the breeds...I went and visited a litter the week before I got my Cozi, Mini Poodle. The differences between the litters were night and day! The havanese were very self involved pups, even the mom just wandered away to sit in the other room while I was there.....

The poodle puppies were all over me! They just wanted to be as close as possible to the people in the room- made my decision so easy!

I also spent lots of time on the havanese forum and was shocked at how many owners had "wonderful" dogs who growled and bit them or their children....as if that was just normal.....


----------



## HiSocietyPoodle

grooming goddess said:


> Havanese have incredibly difficult coats to manage. All the ones I've ever groomed (around 20 different ones) have been quite nippy and barky and difficult to housebreak. I'd say the poodle wins hands down.


As I think back, my friend that has a Havanese their dog is very barky and vocal. :lalala:


----------



## *tina*

Honestly, take your kids to meet the puppies. That's what cinched our decision on a poodle. Most of the other breeds we were looking at were either too exuberant or nippy or some other bad form of behavior we weren't looking for. Now, our mini is vocal when someone walks past our yard or knocks on the door or whatever, but that's what the small poodles were taught to do, so it's no surprise. He doesn't bark a lot at other times, and as soon as I say quiet, he's usually done barking. We are definitely the center of the world, and he follows me and my four year old around the house. With small kids, you may want to consider an older pup. Captain was leash-trained and mostly house-trained when he came to us. I don't know anything about Havanese, but see if you can find any in your area to meet


----------



## Poodle Lover

I have a Havanese and two standards. I've never owned a mini or a toy, but when we decided we wanted a smaller dog, we first looked at toy and mini poodles. We decided against toys right away, as we found them too small, too fragile and way too barky. I've also looked at a few minis (from reputable breeders) and found them way too active, even more so then my standards. It seemed that they almost needed too much stimulation and really preferred the temperament of standards. I then looked at a Havanese and it was love at first sight. Yes, they can be difficult to house train!!! Compared to Romeo who was house broken in 1 day at the age of 12 weeks and Brandy who was house broken in 1 week, Bugsy took from 12 weeks to 6 months to be 100% reliable and fully house broken. Having said that, he is so smart, never had an accident at any house that I take him to. Once he got it, he got it. While the coat can be difficult to maintain, especially during coat blowing (change from puppy to adult coat) there is always the adorable puppy cut with minimum grooming. My Havanese is in full coat, or as full as it can be when two standards regularly use him as a mop to wipe the floors with. lol I do all his grooming. He is brushed and combed every single day and it never takes me more than 10 minutes. He is bathed once every two weeks and face, feet, bottom are done as needed. lol Here's the pic (older, but a favorite) of him:

I would recommend checking out havanese club of america, here's the link:
Havanese Club of America
I would also visit a Havanese forum that I frequent:
Havanese Forum
You will be able to get some advice and lots of information from the Havanese owners/fanciers and breeders.


----------



## Cdnjennga

I too came to decide between the mini and the Havanese. I spent quite a bit of time lurking on the Havanese board (and here) while I was making my decision! Both breeds have their appeal. In the end I decided the mini poodle fit better with my goals (pet plus competitor). I was worried about separation anxiety with the Havanese, as well as coat care. Plus this is superficial, but while I LOVE The Havanese face, I found their body looked quite long and it just didn't please my eye. Haha, noone said my reasoning was sound!

You really do need to meet a few dogs of each breed though, and that will help make your decision. I met a Havanese breeder and went to a Havanese picnic, while I met a couple of poodle breeders as well. Once you see them in person and how their personality is, you will most likely swing one way or the other!


----------



## brittwink21

Poodle Lover said:


> We decided against toys right away, as we found them too small, too fragile and way too barky.


I have to say that I hate when people say things like this hwell: Or call toys yappers. My Jazzy is not a barker at all. My husband was sooo against the idea of a poodle for this very reason. And he is very happy with our girl.

She will bark if someone is in our yard or at the door, but I want this. She quiets as soon as I ask her too.:bounce:


----------



## *tina*

brittwink21 said:


> I have to say that I hate when people say things like this hwell: Or call toys yappers. My Jazzy is not a barker at all. My husband was sooo against the idea of a poodle for this very reason. And he is very happy with our girl.
> 
> She will bark if someone is in our yard or at the door, but I want this. She quiets as soon as I ask her too.:bounce:


I think Poodle Lover just meant around kids, a toy wouldn't be a good fit. And I would whole heartedly agree. Kids can unintentionally be too rough, and if they are a fine-boned animal, it is a bad combination. All of the toys I've met have very fine, thin bones, and I would hate for my kids to hurt a toy. So, when we visit friends with small dogs (toys, chihuahuas, maltese, etc) I remind them that they have to be very careful. My friend has a chi that weighs 14 oz. I keep them far away from Pearl. They are gentle kids, but I wouldn't have a toy around them until they are older.


----------



## PaddleAddict

Cdnjennga said:


> Plus this is superficial, but while I LOVE The Havanese face, I found their body looked quite long and it just didn't please my eye. Haha, noone said my reasoning was sound!


As an aside, a group of people are breeding what they call the Havana Silk Dog, which essentially a Havanese, but it's ever so slightly taller and I think a little more square, among a few other differences. These dogs are only recognized by the North American Kennel Club (Rarities).


----------



## brittwink21

I wasn't upset with her or anything. I do just hear that a lot and it's just aggravating b/c people are always saying when are you going to get a real dog or look at the rat. I guess i'm a little thin skinned. But true about poodles being more fragile. but I do have 3 little kids, and they do great, but most kids don't understand.


----------



## Poodle Lover

brittwink21 said:


> I have to say that I hate when people say things like this hwell: Or call toys yappers. My Jazzy is not a barker at all. My husband was sooo against the idea of a poodle for this very reason.


I didn't mean to offend you or imply that your toy is barky. But, in my experience, most toys I've met (and I met a few) were, even really well bred ones. I also find that toys and kids don't mix and most reputable breeders won't sell you a toy puppy with young children. Again, sorry if I offended you.


----------



## HiSocietyPoodle

Poodle Lover said:


> I have a Havanese and two standards. --- Here's the pic (older, but a favorite) of him:
> .


Your baby Bugsy is precious. Simply adorable!


----------



## Poodle Lover

HiSocietyPoodle said:


> Your baby Bugsy is precious. Simply adorable!


Thanks.  My little man is going to be 4 this year, I can hardly believe it. 
You know that my havanese and bolognese are cousins, all part of the bichon famiy? My aunt had a bolognese and she was the tiniest, cutest little 5 lb baby.


----------



## Jennifer J

We got our mini when my twins were 7 years old. She was always great with them, loves to play fetch (even now at 12 yrs old), and is a sweet little girl. Lulu was the perfect dog for my active kids, she loved playing with them, and she loves just hanging out in someone's lap too. She's certainly not a yappy dog, either - that would drive me nuts. I've never met a Havanese, but they are very sweet looking little guys. I can say that a mini poodle is a great family dog, especially if you have kids.


----------



## brittwink21

Poodle Lover said:


> I didn't mean to offend you or imply that your toy is barky. But, in my experience, most toys I've met (and I met a few) were, even really well bred ones. I also find that toys and kids don't mix and most reputable breeders won't sell you a toy puppy with young children. Again, sorry if I offended you.


You didn't offend me, I wasn't upset or anything, I just do get that a lot. I guess I think it has a lot to do with how they are raised and trained. I think most people with toys treat them differently than they would a standard. I think if they get bored they may be yappier. if that makes sense. I don't treat Jazzy like she's just for looks or something. lol. I train her to all sorts of things. Granted she is more fragile.

And your right most good breeders won't sell to someone with small kids. I got Jazzy from my aunt, she knew our situation and knew me well enough to know she would be fine. We had a 3 lb. yorkie previously and my kids are excellent with her.

Sorry to get off topic, my vote is still for the poo.


----------



## Skye

Thank you all for the great advice! Yes, I am going to have to spend some time with each breed before I decide. If I go with a poodle, I like the size of the mini. Yes, a toy would be too small with my young children. In the past, I had 2 german shepherds, and a mini dachshund (she was really a "tweenie"...big for a mini, small for a standard). I have come to favor smaller dogs, but not too tiny for the kids. 

Thank you also for addressing "yappy" or "hyper" behaviors. My mini was neither of those things, but poodles do get a bad rap for that sometimes, don't they?


----------



## HiSocietyPoodle

Poodle Lover said:


> You know that my havanese and bolognese are cousins, all part of the bichon famiy? My aunt had a bolognese and she was the tiniest, cutest little 5 lb baby.


It totally slipped my mind. You are right they are cousins. 

My Bolognese Goomba's nickname is a Meatball cause he is a meatball. He shouldn't be more than 10-lbs he's 12 and needs a diet. He's not fat just rock solid. My friend Havanese is the same size. Goomba has a thing about food, I've never seen a dog like him. He eats like its his last meal, gobbles it down and acts like he could eat a cow. Don't know why. He's all :boy (2): boy, very very smart (like a Spoo), sometimes too smart for his own good. :eviltongue: Oh, his other nickname is Knucklehead cause he's a real wise guy. :beat-up: Goomba was a rescue and I think it traumatized him as a pup. He was dog aggressive until this past year I worked closely with him by taking him to the dog park every day for several months. His aggression changed fast when he knew his would get his butt kicked by all the other dogs who might ganging up on him if he started a fight. Within no time he was playing with the other dogs and looking forward to it. So after he had an attitudes adjustment over time and we told him he was going to get a little brother; Guido came along about 6 weeks ago. It was instant bond between them Goomba treats Guido like he's his son. It helps that Guido is sweet, loving and mellow (toy). They love each other a lot, and Goomba has become a much nicer dog by far.

Both Havanese and Bolognese are beautiful dogs...


----------



## Poodle Lover

Your Goomba sounds like quite a character and I love boys with a little attitude. lol It sounds as Goomba and Guido are the best of friends, now all we need is pictures. :biggrin:


----------



## southwind

I know this is an old post, but I wanted to share my experience with a havanese breed in the case some people are still trying to make the same choice.
It is true..my havanese boy was not easy to housebreak. At the time i didn't have a garden, so that made things more difficult for both of us. He is 100% relaible now, but i took about 8 months to get there. A friend of mine got here havanese boy housebroken in two moths. So there are differences. This was my first dog too, maybe I didn't do it as it should be done.
He is absolutely the most quiet dog I have ever met :act-up:. Nippy and barky? No way! He just hates it when other dogs bark and goes to correct them. It's like he is saying 'shut up you!' lol. Sometimes I don't hear him bark for days. Some of my friends were really surprised when they heard him bark for a first time. They thought there was something wrong with his voice. On the rare occasions when he barks I only have to tell him to stop and that's it . 
He is very quiet indoors, but once outside he can play for hours if you let him. I know some havaneses that don't need much exercise, but unfortunately mine is one big athlete. He could fetch his Chuckit ball for hours. At the moment he is 3 and a half years old, and I don't see him getting slowed down yet. Very playful and gentle. Highly responsive to a tone of the voice and very smart. Sometimes he can be a bit stubborn, but nothing serious. Most of the havaneses I've met (and I've met a lot of them) where sweet, mellow and highly trainable dogs. 
I have two cats too and he is doing great with them. Cats are the boss in the house. Sometimes they play together, and he is gentle and careful with them. He does great with kids too, and hava's are not as fragile as they may look at first sight. They are little sweet looking sturdy dogs. 
He is just one sweet, easy going boy, and I'm totally happy with him. I have never regretted my decision to get a havanese! 
There are however a few thing that I don't like that much about him. 
First: he is one picky eater! Sometimes it just drives me crazy :beat-up:. It really is a breed thing among hava's. If you go to the havanese forum you will see there are a lot threads about picky eaters. But hey, you can end up with one that eats just about everything. It's an individual question just as everything else is in the end. 
Second: he doesn't like to be cuddled much. Hava's are more so called velcro dogs and note necessarily a lapdogs. Mine always wants to be with me and follows me around the house. I call him my little shadow. But cuddling? Unfortunately this is not his thing. I would love him to sleep in bed with me, but he prefers his own place on the floor. He will come for a few minutes to get some attention and then jumps on the floor or goes to sleep in his crate.
Him not being cuddly have made me decide to get us a black toy poodle. She will be home with us next sunday, and I'm so excited! Can't wait to get her. 4 more days to go. 

I have noticed that poodles and hava's have a lot in common. Both breeds have very sensitive characters (especially to the tone of your voice), both are intelligent and agile. Easy trainable and happy to please you. I have never met a poodle that my boy didn't like. They play the same way and make a great match. I think that both of the breeds are just great.


----------



## partial2poodles

I groom a phantom colored Havanese. I love her. She is about 7-8 lbs. She is also trimmed short and really resembles a yorki-poo. No one would guess she's a purebred. I would still take a poodle over a Havanese. My friend has a Lowchen. Another beautiful dog but not as cuddly and personable.


----------



## southwind

partial2poodles said:


> I groom a phantom colored Havanese...I would still take a poodle over a Havanese.


In a havanese world they are just called black and tan hava's lol, not phantoms :becky:. This is something reserved for poodles with those markings. I tried to find us a phantom toy poodle, bc I really love them, but they are not recognized or available here in the Netherlands. There are some in Germany, but most of them are mini's, and I want a toy. So it's gonna be a black for us :biggrin:. 
I have never owned a poodle before, so I can't say much about them. Will let you know (in a few months) which one I would choose if I had to lol.


----------



## Gracie's Mum

I going to jump in too because I love my havanese! She is one of the smartest dogs I have ever owned. Yes, she has been hard to potty train, and no she is not barky or nippy. I keep her clipped short, 5/8" on her body, and I give her a cute little westie head because that is what I like!

Thank goodness for her energy level because she is keeping Sullivan, now 3 months, wore out! They play long and hard!


----------



## southwind

Gracie's Mum said:


> Thank goodness for her energy level because she is keeping Sullivan, now 3 months, wore out! They play long and hard!


That's what I hope for my two soon! 
Right now I'm trying to grow out my boy's coat. It's going ok. Finally he has got a topknot:act-up:. But i do like him with short trimmed face too. It's just too cute!!
My hava is also one smart boy, he can almost speak with his eyes. He learns new things in a second!


----------



## belgrad

I've been struggling with this same choice! But, having grown up with a mini, I feel like I know what I'm getting into with them. Plus, the housebreaking thing is an issue. I know it'll be work no matter which breed I choose, but I've heard over and over that poodles are much easier. They're both great breeds!


----------



## southwind

belgrad said:


> but I've heard over and over that poodles are much easier.


Is this true for a toy poodle too? I do hope soooo lol.


----------



## PaddleAddict

belgrad said:


> I've been struggling with this same choice! But, having grown up with a mini, I feel like I know what I'm getting into with them. Plus, the housebreaking thing is an issue. I know it'll be work no matter which breed I choose, but I've heard over and over that poodles are much easier. They're both great breeds!


FYI, it took me a year to housetrain my mini! I know others had early success, but not me!


----------



## schpeckie

Having poodles all my life, I agree that poodles learn alot quicker than some dogs. With the barking and nipping, it all depends on the owners responsibility to train their dog right. My girls bark when the doorbell rings and then they quiet. Housebreaking - since it is still too cold for them to go out on the deck, they know right away where the papers are. I don't even have to coax them!


----------



## Guccigrl

Okay, I know this thread is way old, but I have to respond.

I have both a Havanese and a Poodle, the two greatest dog breeds ever. I think I will always have one of each. My Havanese is just as smart as my Poodle and was actually easier to housebreak. My Poodle is the lapdog, my Havanese is always in the same room with me but not on me, my Poodle loves to always be touching me.

My Poodle was super barky, but I was able to curb his barking with intense training using treats and the quiet command, my Havanese has always been pretty quiet. My Havanese is extremely laid back and not much for long walks, my Poodle never tires. 

My Havanese is super extroverted, has never met a stranger and loves everyone whereas my Poodle is a little reserved with strangers but is getting more outgoing with age, he is only six months old. He is extremely friendly once he has met you.

My Poodle is a standard but because I will be fifteen years older (hopefully)when I am looking for my next Poodle, I will probably get a toy or mini next since I will be a senior citizen by than. I am not sure how a toy or mini temperament compares to a standard. In the breed standard, Poodles are described as the same dog, the only difference is size, however, I have had people tell me they are very different.

Therefore, this is my experience so far with a Havanese and a very young Standard Poodle. I would highly recommend both of these breeds.


----------



## sweetheartsrodeo

I have a Havanese and a mini poodle. Hands down the mini is better behaved, and more loving. I love Nelly (the Havanese), but she is not as loving as Jack.


----------



## poo lover

Had a havv and she was a great dog good with kids .
Barky and the coat hated grooming her angle hair.
Much prefer poodles


----------



## Lplummer52

There is an excellent, entertaining article written by Adam Gopnik in The New Yorker about a non-doggie couple living in Manhattan that adopts a Havanese for their daughter. Neither husband nor wife had ever owned a dog and were only considering it because their daughter was adamant that she wanted a Havanese puppy. It made me consider a Havanese, but I really knew nothing about the breed and grew up with my mother's poodle, so pretty much had made my decision before reading the article. I love my new puppy and really knew I wanted a miniature poodle, but the article is pretty persuasive! Go to TheNewYorker.com online and you'll find the article. Of course I hope you get a poodle, but all of us here on this forum are very prejudiced.


----------



## tomas82

southwind said:


> I know this is an old post, but I wanted to share my experience with a havanese breed in the case some people are still trying to make the same choice.
> It is true..my havanese boy was not easy to housebreak. At the time i didn't have a garden, so that made things more difficult for both of us. He is 100% relaible now, but i took about 8 months to get there. A friend of mine got here havanese boy housebroken in two moths. So there are differences. This was my first dog too, maybe I didn't do it as it should be done.
> He is absolutely the most quiet dog I have ever met :act-up:. Nippy and barky? No way! He just hates it when other dogs bark and goes to correct them. It's like he is saying 'shut up you!' lol. Sometimes I don't hear him bark for days. Some of my friends were really surprised when they heard him bark for a first time. They thought there was something wrong with his voice. On the rare occasions when he barks I only have to tell him to stop and that's it .
> He is very quiet indoors, but once outside he can play for hours if you let him. I know some havaneses that don't need much exercise, but unfortunately mine is one big athlete. He could fetch his Chuckit ball for hours. At the moment he is 3 and a half years old, and I don't see him getting slowed down yet. Very playful and gentle. Highly responsive to a tone of the voice and very smart. Sometimes he can be a bit stubborn, but nothing serious. Most of the havaneses I've met (and I've met a lot of them) where sweet, mellow and highly trainable dogs.
> I have two cats too and he is doing great with them. Cats are the boss in the house. Sometimes they play together, and he is gentle and careful with them. He does great with kids too, and hava's are not as fragile as they may look at first sight. They are little sweet looking sturdy dogs.
> He is just one sweet, easy going boy, and I'm totally happy with him. I have never regretted my decision to get a havanese!
> There are however a few thing that I don't like that much about him.
> First: he is one picky eater! Sometimes it just drives me crazy :beat-up:. It really is a breed thing among hava's. If you go to the havanese forum you will see there are a lot threads about picky eaters. But hey, you can end up with one that eats just about everything. It's an individual question just as everything else is in the end.
> Second: he doesn't like to be cuddled much. Hava's are more so called velcro dogs and note necessarily a lapdogs. Mine always wants to be with me and follows me around the house. I call him my little shadow. But cuddling? Unfortunately this is not his thing. I would love him to sleep in bed with me, but he prefers his own place on the floor. He will come for a few minutes to get some attention and then jumps on the floor or goes to sleep in his crate.
> Him not being cuddly have made me decide to get us a black toy poodle. She will be home with us next sunday, and I'm so excited! Can't wait to get her. 4 more days to go.
> 
> I have noticed that poodles and hava's have a lot in common. Both breeds have very sensitive characters (especially to the tone of your voice), both are intelligent and agile. Easy trainable and happy to please you. I have never met a poodle that my boy didn't like. They play the same way and make a great match. I think that both of the breeds are just great.


Hello, if you will, can you please compare your experience with both of the breeds? Thank you, Tomas


----------



## cowpony

@tomas82 I think the Recommended Reading algorithm sent you to a very old thread. I'm not sure how many of the original participants are still active here. I'm hoping we get some new stories about Havanese and poodle buddies.


----------



## Poodle Lover

tomas82 said:


> Hello, if you will, can you please compare your experience with both of the breeds? Thank you, Tomas


Hi Thomas,

I am one of the original participants of the thread, now have a Havanese who is going to be 15 in June, same one and a Spoo name Roxy. What would you like to compare that hasn’t been covered in this thread. Feel free to DM me.


----------

