# Dog Park fight Question



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I understand your concerns totally. I hope countryboy will weigh in here since I think he is the human mayor of the dog park he takes Tonka to. My experience about males with other males is that there are often issues when one is intact and the other isn't and that is part of why most dog parks don't welcome intact males. Even as a three to four month old puppy (intact of course) Peeves was the target of an nasty neutered male. BF kicked the dog after it had been all over Peeves several times. The dog's owner went crazy on BF for it, but he hadn't done anything to stop his crappy mannered dog from trying to hurt Peeves. I thought BF was highly justified, but we haven't gone back ever since then. The people at our dog park are jerks, more into each other and their lattes than in making sure their dogs behave well.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Male dogs fighting is pretty typical. Especially if they are intact and especially if there is a sweet smelling intact female around. As for if a dog attacks Timi, of course you have the right to do what it takes to get your girl out of the situation, but you need to be very careful yourself. I would use your feet before your hands. Dogs don't pay attention to what they are doing in a fight and can easily turn on you if you intrude. Kicking the dog is going to keep you safer and will do just the same as grabbing it if not more. Think about how strong legs are compared to arms.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> I understand your concerns totally. I hope countryboy will weigh in here since I think he is the human mayor of the dog park he takes Tonka to. My experience about males with other males is that there are often issues when one is intact and the other isn't and that is part of why most dog parks don't welcome intact males. Even as a three to four month old puppy (intact of course) Peeves was the target of an nasty neutered male. BF kicked the dog after it had been all over Peeves several times. The dog's owner went crazy on BF for it, but he hadn't done anything to stop his crappy mannered dog from trying to hurt Peeves. I thought BF was highly justified, but we haven't gone back ever since then. The people at our dog park are jerks, more into each other and their lattes than in making sure their dogs behave well.



Thanks for telling me this - truth be told, I probably have gotten a little rough with ill mannered puppies that are bigger than Timi when their owners don't intervene - sort of hoping that they would come over and tell me to cut it out, so 
I could tell them to stop making me do their job.
And yes, I am hopeful that Mayor Countryboy will offer his opinions lol!


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## PoodlePaws (May 28, 2013)

I understand totally. You aren't strange. I have the same feelings. You could always bring an air horn! Might scare them off.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> Male dogs fighting is pretty typical. Especially if they are intact and especially if there is a sweet smelling intact female around. As for if a dog attacks Timi, of course you have the right to do what it takes to get your girl out of the situation, but you need to be very careful yourself. I would use your feet before your hands. Dogs don't pay attention to what they are doing in a fight and can easily turn on you if you intrude. Kicking the dog is going to keep you safer and will do just the same as grabbing it if not more. Think about how strong legs are compared to arms.



Oh, I wouldn't worry about me in that situation - after all these are still small dogs, the largest being maybe 25-30 pounds, they could only do so much to me - my only concern would be making certain that the dog is not able to do one iota of damage to Timi, and I have a feeling that my instincts would be to injure it too severely to be able to get another shot at her. You know how dogs are - if you just shove them away, they will run around, jump over, squeeze through to get back to their target, so I think that I would need to hurt them enough so that attacking was no longer the first thing on their mind. In such a scenario, the dog would likely be 2-6 times bigger than Timi, so being quick about it would be essential. I do feel some anticipatory guilt about it, and that is why I kind if think that I need to work it through now, so that if We were ever in that situation, the worry over hurting, possibly even killing that other dog, would not freeze me from taking quick action to rescue Timi.
Glad to hear that you concur that the odds of a girl being the target of such are very low!


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

I totally understand, when the pittbull had Isabel in her mouth I was punching, kicking, trying to gouge eyes, pulling ears. After all was said and done my hands and arms were severely bruised and my hands were bloody. If i had had a gun or a knife the pitt would have been killed then and there. Even after it was over, and I wouldn't let that dog go, a neighbor came out asking if I needed help, I asked if he had a gun. I was still ready to shoot that dog in the head!


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## Luce (Mar 4, 2013)

Luce loves the dog park too! Too bad we weren't able to use it much due to her surgeries, and now she is in heat!! NO DOG PARK WHEN FEMALE IS IN HEAT!!! The parks rules say that if owners are too stupid to know it.

There was a rat terrier who was being a bit too nippy at the park Feb. or so. I picked Luce up to get her out of harms way, they were playing chase but the terrier added nipping to it. Of course the owner didn't do a thing. So I picked her up and held her for a few minutes, let her down, the chase began and the nipping shortly after. Luce walked away and went to another area of the park. I followed her LOL.

To be on the safe side, I would call your local precinct, or better yet bring Timi there to introduce yourself and her! Of course they will love her, and then ask about the law and what your rights are to insure she stays safe and unharmed while at the dog park. I bet they will appreciate an owner who not only cares about her dog, but also cares about the laws.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> I totally understand, when the pittbull had Isabel in her mouth I was punching, kicking, trying to gouge eyes, pulling ears. After all was said and done my hands and arms were severely bruised and my hands were bloody. If i had had a gun or a knife the pitt would have been killed then and there. Even after it was over, and I wouldn't let that dog go, a neighbor came out asking if I needed help, I asked if he had a gun. I was still ready to shoot that dog in the head!



Oh gosh, I am sorry that I brought that up for you. 
I am thinking that I would probably be the same way, but being that it would be a ten to twenty five pound dog 
I might succeed in killing it...


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Luce said:


> Luce loves the dog park too! Too bad we weren't able to use it much due to her surgeries, and now she is in heat!! NO DOG PARK WHEN FEMALE IS IN HEAT!!! The parks rules say that if owners are too stupid to know it.
> 
> There was a rat terrier who was being a bit too nippy at the park Feb. or so. I picked Luce up to get her out of harms way, they were playing chase but the terrier added nipping to it. Of course the owner didn't do a thing. So I picked her up and held her for a few minutes, let her down, the chase began and the nipping shortly after. Luce walked away and went to another area of the park. I followed her LOL.
> 
> To be on the safe side, I would call your local precinct, or better yet bring Timi there to introduce yourself and her! Of course they will love her, and then ask about the law and what your rights are to insure she stays safe and unharmed while at the dog park. I bet they will appreciate an owner who not only cares about her dog, but also cares about the laws.



Yes, I have been in those situations with too nippy dogs, and it is frustrating - 9 out of ten times the owner will do nothing about it and I end up stomping and yelling at the dog - sometimes grabbing or pushing it away not very delicately. 
I really doubt that doing what you suggest about going to the precinct would go over well here in 
NYC. I once went in to tell them about some giant gas container that was left on the sidewalk by a construction site - it was the size of a person, hidden until you got to where you almost walked into it, and it was the dead of winter, and was half frozen, with hissing gas escaping from it. And they just laughed me off like it was no big deal! Not until I said "can I have your name so that I can let everyone know who I reported it to after it explodes and kills somebody" did they even bother to ask me where it was! So I kind if doubt that they would be very helpful with this kind of question!


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

Well, willow's attack was from an alpha female... She and Willow were the only females in a group of males. I lost it alright.... I just screamed and screamed even after it was over. I was still screaming...,


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

Hans is intact, and my parents have an intact male about the same age as Hans and a spayed female (about a year older than the boys). Hans and Cosmo are buddies most of the time...they are happy to see each other and play really well. Add food or treats to the mix, on the other hand, and a fight will break out. Neither of the boys has ever shown any aggression towards the female. They share with her without any problems. I also had two intact males for a while years ago because I didn't want to neuter young. They were the same way - fine most of the time with the occasional fight, usually over something they didn't want to share.

I've considered working with Hans and Cosmo to try to lessen the guarding behavior, but since they don't live in the same house it is easy enough to just put all the goodies away when they are together.

If we add another dog, it will be a female. I've never had a problem with one male and one female.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Yesterday was not really a fight, it was one dog attacking another dog that was laying on it's back in submission.


Watch something like that, of course! Champ will bowl dogs down and stand over them. If they try to wiggle away he will knock them down again. But he will do NOTHING else. No biting, no growling, no barking. 

Strange... I'm still trying to suss that out. But he never gets a crack at a third KO. I'm on him by the second one. 

And I'm convinced that belly-up is not always a submissive posture. I've seen too many dogs that favour this style while wrestling... boxing on their backs. So while you're dashing toward them, watch too. 

Kicking? Punching? Ya, maybe... but NOT if you can grab the aggressor by the hind legs. Pick them up like wheelbarrow handles. You have total control at that point... and you have it safely. 

And jaws will be dropping all over the park at your maneuver. Be sure to take a bow.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

hopetocurl said:


> Well, willow's attack was from an alpha female... She and Willow were the only females in a group of males. I lost it alright.... I just screamed and screamed even after it was over. I was still screaming...,



I can totally understand how you lost it. Personally though since Willow and that dog were both leashed, I am don't think that the same doggie behavior rules apply...


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Countryboy said:


> Watch something like that, of course! Champ will bowl dogs down and stand over them. If they try to wiggle away he will knock them down again. But he will do NOTHING else. No biting, no growling, no barking.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In this particular case the dog on it's back was doing nothing, the Frenchie was over him, barking growling and repeatedly biting..
Me, I am thinking that my first move would be to hurt the dog badly - if I were to grab and drag the dog while it had it's mouth on Timi, she would likely be dragged by it's teeth and hurt worse, don't you think? If it were this particular dog, he was a huge Frenchie - I am thinking probably 30 pounds vs Timi's five....


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

tp, i thought the same thing when i read your post. a larger dog (even a "smaller") larger dog, can do a lot of damage to another even smaller dog (as in willow's case). personally, i wouldn't hesitate to do whatever i felt necessary to protect my dog (and in a moment like that, i am pretty sure feelings will prevail over logic). it may be a good reason to carry a walking stick with a heavy knob handle even to a dog park. though sometimes i think the temptation to use it on the owner rather than the dog might be a reason not to do so.

i once walked in to a park with my dog still on a leash, as i wanted to walk with him first and familiarize him with the environment. two dogs came charging down the hill and bowled him over. i have never heard a dog scream the way he did. i yelled at the lead dog "no!" and backed her off. and the dog's owner came over and told me not to give commands to her dog! protecting your dog is often about protecting against idiot owners.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

patk said:


> i once walked in to a park with my dog still on a leash, as i wanted to walk with him first and familiarize him with the environment.


Awwwww, Pat... I've had this discussion at the gate a few times. You will not walk your dog on a leash into the park. Not while I'm there.

Dog rush to greet your dog and it can go nowhere. Not run away, not go into a play bow, not react in any kind of usual doggy fashion. The idea in a dog park is to let the dogs interact freely, not be under control to the extent of a leash. It's absolutely, guaranteed trouble.

Your dog WILL be rushed, you will see it as an attack, and never come back again.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

well, cb, we shall have to agree to disagree. among other things, the dogs that deliberately rolled my dog were growling, not playing or trying to greet. had i had a different and equally ill-behaved dog, there might have been serious damage done. the owner of the female was in denial about this fact - until she finally went to get her dog as she saw it again approaching the area where i was with my dog and heard her dog growling away. if anything, her dog should have been leashed, as it was running around the park growling at other dogs. as to my turning around and not returning, i did return. the owner of the other dog, however, never did. imo, you don't "socialize" your dog at another dog's expense. a dog with serious behavioral problems needs the help either of a knowledgeable owner or a behaviorist. either that or it is going to end up being put down.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

I've heard it all before... at the gate... as the leasher was walking away. I make no bones about it, I don't discuss it long... no leashes in the park. 

If you insist on introducing your leashed dog to unleashed dogs, I'm really questioning your use of the phrase 'idiot owner'.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

cb, you run a park. many parks do not have monitors as committed as you. no, i don't consider myself an idiot owner, though you may. i do consider myself to be a realist about who gets to use parks - for dogs or people - in the u.s. and how responsible many aren't. i live in a dog-friendly community and one owner's dog broke loose from its owner and attacked and wounded an elderly woman who was simply taking a walk and never even approached the dog. the idea that somehow if it's a dog park a dog with those problems would behave differently comes from living in la-la land. i wouldn't take a child to a park or playground, either, without exercising supervision.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I would never want to cause real harm to any dog. It would be so easy to stop a fight between two small dogs without going crazy IMHO. 

Stella got attacked by a big dog and it was awful, but even then I would not want to kill anyone's dog. 

Just be watchful, if you think there is going to be trouble with a dog, leave. If it happens before you can stop it, As country boy said, get the dogs hind legs and back it out of the fight, I did this with a big dog and it did stop fighting as soon as I touched it. With a small dog , you don't even have to be afraid. Just do it and enjoy the park.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

You might feel differently if you watched your 3pound dog dying a slow, horrible, death in the mouth of a 50pound Pitt that refused to let go.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

N2, I can fully understand your feelings. But a fight in a dog park between two small dogs is a whole lot different. Your dog did not have a chance, but most dog fights are not going to end up in a death of either dog, if someone is around to break it up. I don't see any reason to hurt someone's dog when you don't have to. I would try to handle it without causing harm, that's all I am saying.


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## Oreo's Mommy (Dec 18, 2012)

We did the dog park once. I would love to go back... If I got to pick the dogs and owners that would be there. Otherwise, I just can't do it. 

There isn't a dog park on my side of the island so it isn't an issue. 

I am just an overprotective mama and we don't have a person like Countryboy to enforce the safety rules.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

patk said:


> tp, i thought the same thing when i read your post. a larger dog (even a "smaller") larger dog, can do a lot of damage to another even smaller dog (as in willow's case). personally, i wouldn't hesitate to do whatever i felt necessary to protect my dog (and in a moment like that, i am pretty sure feelings will prevail over logic). it may be a good reason to carry a walking stick with a heavy knob handle even to a dog park. though sometimes i think the temptation to use it on the owner rather than the dog might be a reason not to do so.
> 
> i once walked in to a park with my dog still on a leash, as i wanted to walk with him first and familiarize him with the environment. two dogs came charging down the hill and bowled him over. i have never heard a dog scream the way he did. i yelled at the lead dog "no!" and backed her off. and the dog's owner came over and told me not to give commands to her dog! protecting your dog is often about protecting against idiot owners.



Oh yes, the idiot owners are often a bigger annoyance than the dogs. I am so relieved when a jerky dog has a conscientious owner!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Countryboy said:


> Awwwww, Pat... I've had this discussion at the gate a few times. You will not walk your dog on a leash into the park. Not while I'm there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I do tend to agree with you on that country boy. And another huge mistake I see is when small dog owners hold their dogs up in the air because a dog is jumping at them as they try to get their dog to the ground. I take Timi's leash off outside the park, and I whisk her to the ground the moment that we we enter, before anyone has a chance to start jumping at us. Invariably she instantly joins the pack, and is leading it moments later.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

patk said:


> well, cb, we shall have to agree to disagree. among other things, the dogs that deliberately rolled my dog were growling, not playing or trying to greet. had i had a different and equally ill-behaved dog, there might have been serious damage done. the owner of the female was in denial about this fact - until she finally went to get her dog as she saw it again approaching the area where i was with my dog and heard her dog growling away. if anything, her dog should have been leashed, as it was running around the park growling at other dogs. as to my turning around and not returning, i did return. the owner of the other dog, however, never did. imo, you don't "socialize" your dog at another dog's expense. a dog with serious behavioral problems needs the help either of a knowledgeable owner or a behaviorist. either that or it is going to end up being put down.



Since this particular dog was so aggressive, it probably would have turned out badly either way. However I do agree with CB that having one dog on a leash amongst loose dogs is a very bad idea - the leashed dog feels trapped and can either react fearfully or aggressively, and thwarted in his ability to respond appropriately to the other dogs signals and behaviors, they are bound to get off on the wrong foot with many of them, and the pack will likely gang up against them....


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Carley's Mom said:


> N2, I can fully understand your feelings. But a fight in a dog park between two small dogs is a whole lot different. Your dog did not have a chance, but most dog fights are not going to end up in a death of either dog, if someone is around to break it up. I don't see any reason to hurt someone's dog when you don't have to. I would try to handle it without causing harm, that's all I am saying.



You have to keep in mind that in such a scenario Timi would likely be 3-5 times smaller than the other dog - what is small to me, could still be huge to her. It would be like a six hundred pound Sumo Wrestler jumping a 150 pound woman - he most certainly could kill or gravely injure her.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Since this particular dog was so aggressive, it probably would have turned out badly either way. However I do agree with CB that having one dog on a leash amongst loose dogs is a very bad idea - the leashed dog feels trapped and can either react fearfully or aggressively, and thwarted in his ability to respond appropriately to the other dogs signals and behaviors, they are bound to get off on the wrong foot with many of them, and the pack will likely gang up against them....


except for the two dogs i mentioned, my dog did fine for the short time he was on leash, and no other dog felt it necessary to do anything other than approach and sniff even when he was off leash. i really don't believe that dogs without behavioral issues cause problems. even though my dog was on the shy side, he was also used to being around strange people and strange dogs and his behavior was entirely non-provocative. the other dogs in the park at the time were all non-aggressive; the problems you and cb are referring to really have to do with dogs with behavioral issues - and the fact that people tolerate that behavior or excuse it instead of working with their dogs to extinguish it. i say that as someone whose male dog developed behavior issues (barking like crazy at any other dog) when i introduced a female into the household. as soon as she was gone, that whole behavior disappeared. but while she was part of the household, i would never have taken them to a dog park. that would have been asking for trouble.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

I have to say this.... 

I froze, not really. But I just pulled Lou and covered her with my body and yelled the worst cuss words to the dogs owner. (Lou was attacked by 2 wiener dogs I can't spell that breeds name) they were evil!!!! But Lou was 4 months old and very very hairy so their teeth didn't penetrate skin, but she was terrified screaming and did not bite them back! Dammed flexi-leashes and stupid owners! These 2 dogs were about 20-30 feet ahead of the owner who had a tiny toddler with him too!!! What an idiot!
I yelled so many awful things in front of the child but sorry dude, your fault! 
I said stuff like: "take control of you F*=^%#¥ dogs!!!!! WT* !!! 

And a few days later his wife was walking the 2 dogs (again several feet ahead of her) and I was coming around the corner and saw them, I yelled: "ma'am please wait till I cross the street, your dogs attacked mine, let's me just get out of the way" she kept coming toward me with an attitude (I was stuck against this building's wall crying) and she yelled at me: "get a grip!" Or something like that ... I moved outta there. It was an apartment complex with a fenced in dog park and all but I was so terrified to walk her. These people was so mean.

I wish I would have beaten the crap out of those little F*€£¥^#•+s !!!!! 
But the guy was a huge motorcycle tattooed bald with goatee type guy... So I just cried hard ...

But I never imagined. was not prepared . so now I know I will fight the dog and scream "Lou/Apollo go home right now! Go away!!" They know that that means and I'd fight the dog regardless what size, maybe wouldn't fight too hard if the dog is heavier than me. But I'd still kick it over and over !! And actually would be glad to be bitten on my arm or hand son I can sue the owner big time!! I'd pull the "I have anxiety disorder , I'm not only physically insured but now I could have panic syndrome and panic attacks forever , because of YOUR irresponsible actions! You are guilty! Not just the dog. The dog is a product of your negligence ....!!!" 

Whew! Gosh that makes my blood boil 

So don't feel bad, I mean some people may disagree... But I'd definitely fight for my babies, no doubt ! I'd get blinded by rage and mother-instincts and just launch toward whatever is putting them in danger.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Lou said:


> I have to say this....
> 
> I froze, not really. But I just pulled Lou and covered her with my body and yelled the worst cuss words to the dogs owner. (Lou was attacked by 2 wiener dogs I can't spell that breeds name) they were evil!!!! But Lou was 4 months old and very very hairy so their teeth didn't penetrate skin, but she was terrified screaming and did not bite them back! Dammed flexi-leashes and stupid owners! These 2 dogs were about 20-30 feet ahead of the owner who had a tiny toddler with him too!!! What an idiot!
> I yelled so many awful things in front of the child but sorry dude, your fault!
> ...



Yes, I know that I feel a lot of rage when a nippy, body slamming bigger puppy goes after Timi - I can control it, but it isn't easy - if a dog went after her with true aggression with, I am pretty sure that 
I would loose it completely and might badly injure or kill the dog. I am thankful that it is unlikely to happen - they all seem to like Timi, she has great dodging skills, and she stays far away from trouble, but still you never know what dog with what kind of issues will appear at the park.
I had nasty words with a guy with his dog on a flexi last week - the dog was also wearing an E collar, and we were coming towards each other on a narrow sidewalk. I stopped, pulled Timi to my side next to a wall and behind me waiting for them to pass, and instead he allowed the dog, a large schnauzer to circle behind me to get to Timi, wrapping it's leash around my legs, and I was out of places to move her away from it. I said why would you do that when it is obvious that I am trying to keep my dog away from yours", and he replied "well I remember her from the dog park, so I thought it was Ok" What! I said " Basic leash etiquette - you don't do that". A) I am trying to teach Timi not to lunge at every dog that we pass on the street B) I don't know if his dog is sick or injured - I don't want Timi exposed to anything, I don't want her to bother a dog who might have just had surgery, C) No matter how non-aggressive rude idiot thinks his five times bigger dog is, that could change quick if he has an injury and is in pain! I was absolutely livid! Thank goodness the dog did not do anything to Timi!


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I would fight to keep my dog safe, I have done it with my own ! Even if the other dog is 3 to 5 times bigger than your dog, it is not 3 to 5 times bigger than you. You don't have to kill another persons dog to protect your own, that is my thinking on this subject. 
Carley and Stella have both bit our neighbor's small dog. It was my fault and I take full blame. I told Carley to get it , because it was using our yard for it's potty. I did not think she would touch the dog ! I was at fault, then Stella saw how Carley hated the dog and she started going after it as well. I did put a stop to it. Neither dog caused damage to the small dog, but they should not have touched it at all. I would have been very upset if my neighbor had killed my very much loved dogs. I was at fault here, not them. I learned from it . Both people and dogs make mistakes, and when you can do other things other than harm or kill a dog for not being trained by it's owner, why not do so. That is all I am saying, I will not say more... smiles.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Carley's Mom said:


> I would fight to keep my dog safe, I have done it with my own ! Even if the other dog is 3 to 5 times bigger than your dog, it is not 3 to 5 times bigger than you. You don't have to kill another persons dog to protect your own, that is my thinking on this subject.
> 
> Carley and Stella have both bit our neighbor's small dog. It was my fault and I take full blame. I told Carley to get it , because it was using our yard for it's potty. I did not think she would touch the dog ! I was at fault, then Stella saw how Carley hated the dog and she started going after it as well. I did put a stop to it. Neither dog caused damage to the small dog, but they should not have touched it at all. I would have been very upset if my neighbor had killed my very much loved dogs. I was at fault here, not them. I learned from it . Both people and dogs make mistakes, and when you can do other things other than harm or kill a dog for not being trained by it's owner, why not do so. That is all I am saying, I will not say more... smiles.



Oh hey, not saying that if I had TIME to think, I would walk over and kill somebodies dog, I am just saying that WHILE it was in process of hurting Timi, I would probably choose assault if it looked like there was even a chance that pulling, pushing or dragging it away would cause Timi extra harm - and when you are speaking of a relatively small dog, there is a greater chance that assault could lead to mortal injury.
In this case, the owner of the Frenchie was able to lift it straight up in the air by it's harness. I think it's victim was probably saved by it's flat Frenchie jaw - it really could not get it's jaw around the dog.
But in your situation, you were NOT to blame - 100% your neighbors fault for allowing their dog to be loose to enter your property - you would have been entirely blameless if your dogs had killed it!


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

the ideal would be owners who recognized their dogs don't belong at a dog park unless or until their neuroses are under control. barring that, talk softly and carry a big stick - literally.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Here is an article with suggestions about handling strange dogs when walking.What To Do If A Dog Is Chasing You | Robin Bennett

I like the umbrella suggestion, kind of a version of the big stick method. Train your dogs to get use to the sound of the umbrella opening, so if a strange person lets her dog get close to yours, press the button and open the umbrella in the face of the intruding dog. It won't hurt the dog and may make the point with its owner that you do NOT like strange dogs near your dog. Maybe you'll get the nickname of Umbrella Woman, like in "Stay away from that Umbrella Woman!"

If you are walking multiple dogs I think it might be harder to control the situation. You might need a third hand for the umbrella. Just something to consider.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Well now you have gone and done it I went totally psycho crazy bitch on a woman who brought her 50 pound puppy into the small dog area today and would not leave.
Did you ever go so nuts that it was like you were standing outside yourself, watching and wondering "who is that person?" Lol
I would have really been embarrassed by behaving like that, but since it was for Timi, I was sort of proud...
So now they all think that I am "crazy psycho bitch", but they probably would not want to mess with my dog and see that again, so I will accept the title for Timi


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## Marcie (Aug 2, 2011)

Tiny Poodles said:


> So in the months that I have been taking Timi to dog parks, I have witnessed 4 or 5 truly aggressive fights. Nobody has ever so much as curled a lip or growled at Timi, the worst that has ever happened to her is overly nippy or body slamming from too big for her puppies.
> But I was just wondering - all the fights that I have seen so far have been between males, and I am wondering if that is typical, so I do not have much worries of Timi ever being targeted? One time there were only two boys and her in the park, and everything was fine until we left, but before we even got 20 feet away, they broke out in a vicious fight, so I kind of thought that it was because she had left.
> And by the way, if a dog does ever attack Timi, am I within my rights to do anything to that dog? Yesterday was not really a fight, it was one dog attacking another dog that was laying on it's back in submission. I truly am afraid that if anyone or any dog tried to hurt Timi, I would loose it, and might use excessive force in my anger...... Like I wouldn't have just pulled that dog off of her, I probably would have pulled it off and slammed it's head into to the ground to knock it out and not give it a chance to come back as I gathered up Timi. Does that sound awful? Maybe I have watched to many horror movies, but one really lesson that I have learned from them is that that you don't knock the bad guy down and run, because they will be right back after you - when you have them down, use the opportunity to make it so that they are unable to come at you a second time.
> Sorry if you think i am being overly creepy about this, I just think that it helps to play these scenarios out in my mind a little bit, so if God forbid anything ever does happen, I won't get frozen with shock and will be able to take quick action. Timi LOVES the dog park and has great skills there, so there is no way that we are going to stop going....


Our dog park has a big dog and a small dog side. No dogs over 20lbs are allowed in the small dog side. Usually there aren't any dogs but mine in the small dog side which is just fine with me. That way Sasha (she is blind) can get in an open area and run without bumping into anything or anyone. The joy on her face is indescribable.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Yes, I only take Timi to parks that have small dog sections, but people always stretch it and stretch it - that idiot yesterday stretched it until I finally broke!


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Yes, I only take Timi to parks that have small dog sections, but people always stretch it and stretch it - that idiot yesterday stretched it until I finally broke!


I take it you were successful in getting her to remove her 50 lb dog from the small dog area. Did she say WHY she was bringing her dog there? Was it because it was a puppy even though it was large?


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Yes, I know that I feel a lot of rage when a nippy, body slamming bigger puppy goes after Timi - I can control it, but it isn't easy


Yr right to control it, TP. Just watch Timi. Bowling and being bowled are part of the game sometimes. As long as she's enjoying the romp, it doesn't matter that she's on the bottom occasionally. I start walking toward 'the romp' if I hear a yelp. Or see some dog getting pinned. 9 times out of 10 it's a yelp of surprise only, or a momentary tussle. 

My advantage tho, is that I usually know most of the 'pinners', and can sneak up and grab their collars. 



Tiny Poodles said:


> I had nasty words with a guy with his dog on a flexi last week - the dog was also wearing an E collar, and we were coming towards each other on a narrow sidewalk. I stopped, pulled Timi to my side next to a wall and behind me waiting for them to pass, and instead he allowed the dog, a large schnauzer to circle behind me to get to Timi, wrapping it's leash around my legs, and I was out of places to move her away from it. I said why would you do that when it is obvious that I am trying to keep my dog away from yours", and he replied "well I remember her from the dog park, so I thought it was Ok" What! I said " Basic leash etiquette - you don't do that".


I love my flexi. But I 'flex' it! 

Tonka doesn't control it when there's people or dogs near... I do!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Well now you have gone and done it I went totally psycho crazy bitch on a woman who brought her 50 pound puppy into the small dog area today and would not leave.
> Did you ever go so nuts that it was like you were standing outside yourself, watching and wondering "who is that person?" Lol
> I would have really been embarrassed by behaving like that, but since it was for Timi, I was sort of proud...
> So now they all think that I am "crazy psycho bitch", but they probably would not want to mess with my dog and see that again, so I will accept the title for Timi


Yeah, me too! I'm usually a pretty quiet and non-confrontational person........but mess with Molly or Family , there's no tellin' what I might do Hahahaha!!!!!! I've been in the 'Seeing Red' zone and it's not pretty!!!!!:aetsch:


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

And then there a good people - yesterday a sweet woman apologized profusely to me when her Shiba Inu went after Timi like she was prey, and a nice man asked me if I thought his 9 pound puppy was OK for Timi, might he hurt her (they were good with close supervision). 
This is the way it should always be


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

If people think you become a "crazy psycho bitch" when your dog is threatened maybe they will respect you a little more rather than less?
Eric


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

ericwd9 said:


> If people think you become a "crazy psycho bitch" when your dog is threatened maybe they will respect you a little more rather than less?
> Eric



Well the thing is, I felt that bringing an 8 month old 50 pound puppy into the small dog park was a threat to my tiny poodle, and they thought not! They thought I was going all Crazy Psycho Bitch for nothing. So respect me, I don't think so, but afraid of setting me off again, maybe, and I am cool with that if it gets me the result I want.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Just what behavior will convince a "person' that a 50 lb puppy is a small dog???? I suggest that confrontation is the only way. Sadly people with 50 lb puppies who think they are small dogs have small minds. Parents always think their children are perfect. Same, Same dogs. Sad but true. It is unlikely that you can change their mind but you can show them they are "NOT WANTED". This works better than one might think for you. But does not help them. Can anything do that???
Eric


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

We had a guy who insisted on bringing his Boxer bitch into the park on a leash. The one time I tried to restrain our Cane Corso 'til he got thru the gate, I wound up being dragged to my knees and off on a 20' slide thru the snow behind a charging Champ. 

With that little shot of adrenaline, I went ballistic on he and his wife. It was nose-to-nose stuff, like an irate baseball manager on an umpire. With everybody in the park watching.

I saw him again early this summer. He unleashed Honey in the enclosure. She came thru the gate, offleash, with all her options open, and set off on the usual, friendly chase with other dogs... mingling easily. 

I was impressed, but played stupid, like I'd never seen him or his dog before, and as he moved closer to the group of owners, started to engage him in small talk. Eventually we stood side by side watching the dogs play.


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## SteviM95 (Jul 9, 2014)

I'm totally preparing myself for Bindi's first aggressive situation. I live in a pretty dog friendly, educated area - so most of the dog owners at the dog park are super vigilant. I did arrive after 1 dog fight. The owner of a golder retriever got his wrist torn open by a pit bull. I guess the golden was acting goofy standing over the pit. Neither owner responded to the pit's body language, and the pit blew up, pinning the golden. 3 owners jumped on the dog pile, convinced the golden was being killed. They pounded the pit, squeezed its tail, shoved a frisbee in its mouth...and when it let go of the golden (which was unharmed), it went after the golden's owner - ripping his wrist to the tendons. The golden's owner was pretty irate and insisted the pit be locked up and he called the cops. I honestly think he would have physically restrained the man if he had refused to wait. The golden was pretty hyper, but he kept his dog confined (we have 3 sections, and 2 gated areas you walk through to get to the 3 sections; he locked her in one of the small walk-thru areas - the pit was isolated in the small dog area). When I've introduced my dog to the dog park, I've talked with 2-3 other owners about "rules" - written and unwritten. My puppy kindergarten teacher also gave me some rules.

1. Talk to the other owners first - I holler in and say "Hi, are your dogs happy to play with others". Some owners WILL bring dogs that just need exercise and will ask you to use the other side. Or if they hesitate, I use the other side.

2. Look for groups. 2-3 dogs usually play nice together. Anything bigger will turn into a pack, and potentially turn on a downed dog. When they start to group up, I throw balls in opposite directions. If they insist on staying grouped, I remove my Bindi.

3. Bindi is a rough player - she likes the body slamming, getting pinned, jumping on each other and biting. If my Bindi gets pinned and becomes motionless or frantic, I pull the other dog off. She usually comes after the dog - and I let it go. Some owners make a small comment about it, but too bad. There is a pit bull that I like at our dog park. Its a good dog. Its owner is a good owner. She is very vigilant. We talk and are friendly. She doesn't like it when I pull her dog off Bindi...but I still do it. My loyalty is to Bindi, even though I have seen this dog STOP body slamming Bindi because Bindi yelped when he hit her too hard. He did it all on his own because he's a good dog. But I have to keep her safe, and he gets pulled off her if she's pinned too long. Just an aside - I love that Bindi knows when other dogs cannot handle that. In puppy kindergarten there was another poodle. A shy, unsocialized poodle. All the other dogs would harass it. Not my Bindi. She only approached the other dog with energy once. After that she just ignored it, except when it would actually come to sniff her. When the shy poodle would run away from her greeting, she just let her go - she didn't chase and pounce. I was so proud of her. Because of that, Bindi was allowed to play with both the big dogs and the little dogs in kindergarten.

4. My last mini, Molly was not active or rough or liked to play. I never took her to a dog park, she didn't have excess energy to run off and was already socialized (I got her at the age of 7), but I did have a few issues when she was on leash. She was sniffing noses with a weiner dog and it bit her. I honestly have never liked those dogs since. Molly sat down and whined. I picked her up. I think the owner was afraid of me - I was so mad. But it honestly happened so quickly without any warning. I had alot of problems with other dogs thinking Molly was a toy when I picked her up or sat her down. I made myself very possessive of her so they would lose interest. 

5. Growling/barking is not necessarily agressive. Bindi makes lots of noises when playing. There is a lady that brings 3 5lb chihauhaus to the dog park. I didn't want Bindi to go near them, but the owner encouraged me to let her learn. Bindi barks and makes a growly noise at them. But she's never been aggressive or defensive yet - I think she's really too young to even have those emotions. She makes the same noises at me when we are playing. 

6. I do think training your dog to sit or down while you deal with aggressors is an important thing I learned from this forum. I had 1 ordeal with my mutt years ago. It got dark while I was walking in the park and I heard some canine snorting/grunting/running. It was not a dog park, but someone came after dark to let their dogs run loose. I felt my dog hit the back of my legs and I just started yelling at the top of my lungs "get bacK' and "call your dogs". But it was deep yelling, not screaming. My dog was amazingly silent (springer spaniel/husky/lab mix), so I think there was definitely aggression afoot. Normally at the sight of people/animals, he was a writhing/drooling fool. The only time he ever got aggressive, he moved spookily silently. I'm convinced we narrowly escaped badness that night, but I'm surprised I didn't scream hysterically.


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## squirrel (Oct 21, 2014)

I haven't heard of dog parks over here, how do they work.is it a special area in a park put aside for dogs or just a big park only for dogs. In the U.K. dogs are allowed in most parks either on a lead or there are areas of the park you can let them run free.


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## SteviM95 (Jul 9, 2014)

A dog park is where its okay to let them run free. There are usually 2-3 gates to enter so that you can close the outside gates, take your dog off leash and then open and allow the dog into the park.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Countryboy said:


> We had a guy who insisted on bringing his Boxer bitch into the park on a leash. The one time I tried to restrain our Cane Corso 'til he got thru the gate, I wound up being dragged to my knees and off on a 20' slide thru the snow behind a charging Champ.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It sounds like your "psycho Dad" lesson sunk in with him!
This was actually the second time with this woman - the first time I asked her to leave in a slightly annoyed, but rational tone, and it was the second time when she refused and I went Psycho Bitch - maybe that is what it takes!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

SteviM95 said:


> I'm totally preparing myself for Bindi's first aggressive situation. I live in a pretty dog friendly, educated area - so most of the dog owners at the dog park are super vigilant. I did arrive after 1 dog fight. The owner of a golder retriever got his wrist torn open by a pit bull. I guess the golden was acting goofy standing over the pit. Neither owner responded to the pit's body language, and the pit blew up, pinning the golden. 3 owners jumped on the dog pile, convinced the golden was being killed. They pounded the pit, squeezed its tail, shoved a frisbee in its mouth...and when it let go of the golden (which was unharmed), it went after the golden's owner - ripping his wrist to the tendons. The golden's owner was pretty irate and insisted the pit be locked up and he called the cops. I honestly think he would have physically restrained the man if he had refused to wait. The golden was pretty hyper, but he kept his dog confined (we have 3 sections, and 2 gated areas you walk through to get to the 3 sections; he locked her in one of the small walk-thru areas - the pit was isolated in the small dog area). When I've introduced my dog to the dog park, I've talked with 2-3 other owners about "rules" - written and unwritten. My puppy kindergarten teacher also gave me some rules.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It can be difficult at times, I never imagined that I would have a dog park dog, but then came Timi - she is so good at it, and she loves it SO much. She would never ever have a problem if it was not for the fact that the small dog areas officially allow dogs up to 5 times her size, and then idiots like this woman who think that they can bring in a dog ten times Timi's size!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

SteviM95 said:


> A dog park is where its okay to let them run free. There are usually 2-3 gates to enter so that you can close the outside gates, take your dog off leash and then open and allow the dog into the park.



And it is usually contained within a bigger park. Dogs are normally not allowed off lead in the regular parks. Though some parks around here do allow off lead dogs before 9:00 AM and after 9:00PM.


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## SteviM95 (Jul 9, 2014)

squirrel said:


> I haven't heard of dog parks over here, how do they work.is it a special area in a park put aside for dogs or just a big park only for dogs. In the U.K. dogs are allowed in most parks either on a lead or there are areas of the park you can let them run free.


I've noticed a difference in the way Americans treat dogs. On one extreme are the self-proclaimed animal lovers that inappropriately smother, over-stimulate and make sure that an animal doesn't know how to be an animal. Then there are people who are afraid of animals to the point that they go beserk when approached by a friendly dog. I've had people walking yards away from me scream at me that my leashed dog needs to be kept away. There is no common sense and there are no laws. 

When I was in the UK, I marvelled at how many dogs would run in parks. And they didn't seek attention from strangers, strangers didn't seek them out or beg to give them treats: they just let the dogs and the owners enjoy space. That never really happens in the US. That's why some elite areas have dog parks. But money is usually donated by individuals or organizations and there is no standardized rules.

When I was in So Africa, I noticed lots of wild animals that were just allowed to be animals. There was no feeding of the animals, no aggression towards the animals. They were just ignored.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

SteviM95 said:


> 2. Look for groups. 2-3 dogs usually play nice together. Anything bigger will turn into a pack, and potentially turn on a downed dog. When they start to group up, I throw balls in opposite directions. If they insist on staying grouped, I remove my Bindi.


I'm always moving in and out of the group of owners. When the dogs are bunching up there, I'll entice a couple of them away, and generally two or three more will join us out in the wide-open field. 



SteviM95 said:


> 3. But I have to keep her safe, and he gets pulled off her if she's pinned too long.


Too long, I think is the operative word. Pinning can be a dicey situation... but not always dangerous. 



SteviM95 said:


> 5. Growling/barking is not necessarily aggressive. Bindi makes lots of noises when playing.


I just laff at them... they're like little boys playing with cars and trucks... making all the right noises. If Tonka is chasing a dog he will growl right in their ear. Even to me, it sounds like he's saying "I'm gonna GET you!" lol If I were a new dog I'd be wary too. But once they get used to him, the wrestle is on.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Yeah, I just ordered this  Now they will be forewarned 
http://teespring.com/messpoodl


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I may just get one of those too!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> I may just get one of those too!



I don't generally go for these kind of shirts, but just had to get this for the dog park!
I wish the made a nice down coat with this printed on it too


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I just heard it is supposed to get cold mid week next week. The dogs may not mind so much, but I will not be happy. It is time to break out the winter coats I guess.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

So I just ordered one of those shirts in navy! I'm thinking today is a day for poodle sneakers.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> I just heard it is supposed to get cold mid week next week. The dogs may not mind so much, but I will not be happy. It is time to break out the winter coats I guess.



Yup, I will be bummed if the shirt does not come in time for anyone to see it under a coat. I ordered it big, so maybe I could put a couple of layers underneath and get away with wearing it for a little while before it is too cold...


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I ordered mine big too. If I ever have a break in my schedule and we can make a dog park date in the city, we should coordinate.


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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

I don't take my dogs to dog parks - too many owners not paying attention to their dogs' body language and behavior. Pack mentality takes over when there are too many dogs present, which can lead to VERY ugly situations. Keeping track of my dogs and everyone else's, too (because their owners won't) is way too stressful and not worth it to me. I'm surprised that after several negative, and dangerous situations, that so many of you continue to return for more of the same. :questionmark:

If you can afford it (unfortunately, I cannot, on a regular basis), I'd recommend a good doggie daycare instead. A reputable place will temperament test dogs before allowing them to return, and they will group dogs together with like temperaments and play styles. Supervision is constant and employees are trained to watch for problems and handle them correctly, should they arise.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

georgiapeach said:


> I'm surprised that after several negative, and dangerous situations, that so many of you continue to return for more of the same. :questionmark:


I'd stay and chat with ya... but we're off to the dog park.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> I ordered mine big too. If I ever have a break in my schedule and we can make a dog park date in the city, we should coordinate.



That would be hysterical!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

georgiapeach said:


> I don't take my dogs to dog parks - too many owners not paying attention to their dogs' body language and behavior. Pack mentality takes over when there are too many dogs present, which can lead to VERY ugly situations. Keeping track of my dogs and everyone else's, too (because their owners won't) is way too stressful and not worth it to me. I'm surprised that after several negative, and dangerous situations, that so many of you continue to return for more of the same. :questionmark:
> 
> 
> 
> If you can afford it (unfortunately, I cannot, on a regular basis), I'd recommend a good doggie daycare instead. A reputable place will temperament test dogs before allowing them to return, and they will group dogs together with like temperaments and play styles. Supervision is constant and employees are trained to watch for problems and handle them correctly, should they arise.



Well I won't argue with you about the first part of your statement, but I am amazed that you think doggie daycare is safer! The ones that I have seen have had one or two inexperienced teenagers supervising a group of 20-30 dogs. They spend most of their time picking up poop, and almost never noticed when dogs are being bullied or worse. There is NO amount of money that you could pay me to leave my dog in a large group without my direct and continuous monitoring!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I could have used the shirt today - 
Him - "don't you yell at my dog"
Me - "I will do whatever I want to your dog when it has my dog's tail in it's mouth"


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Oh dear, some people really are idiots. It sounds like both owners and dog were idiots this time Tiny.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> Oh dear, some people really are idiots. It sounds like both owners and dog were idiots this time Tiny.



You didn't mean to add the s to owner, did you


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I really wish that there would be a dog park rule, "all dogs must wear a harness" - it is so much easier to deal with problems if you can just grab a harness...


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Hey TinyPoodles, I have a solution! You can just fly across the country every time you want to go to the dog park, and bring little Timi to my park! She will get to play on the grass and my three are the only ones that are ever there,so it's a win win ?. Lol, Jk. I wish teleporting was real ☺.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> Hey TinyPoodles, I have a solution! You can just fly across the country every time you want to go to the dog park, and bring little Timi to my park! She will get to play on the grass and my three are the only ones that are ever there,so it's a win win ?. Lol, Jk. I wish teleporting was real ☺.



Sounds like a perfect solution to me - off to buy my lotto ticket lol!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Tiny Poodles said:


> You didn't mean to add the s to owner, did you



Oh dear no, just one idiot person and one ill mannered dog.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

What a difference an owner makes! The same dog that was grabbing Timi's tail and bowling her over was at the park today with the Mom instead of the Dad, and the Mom was paying close attention - she intervened the first 2-3 times that the dog even thought about bothering Timi, and that was it - the dog gave up, and went to chase a bigger dog!
And for those who wonder why we go and deal with all the drama, I think that these pictures explain it well...











































Could a poodle have a day more fun than this?


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Levitating Timi !!!

She's clearly having a blast and from the looks of things, you might want to herding test her Tiny Poodles .


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Streetcar said:


> Levitating Timi !!!
> 
> She's clearly having a blast and from the looks of things, you might want to herding test her Tiny Poodles .



Herding in Manhattan? Lol I have not even been able to find an agility class for her yet!


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Yesssss, she seems talented. But I do admit to wondering just what one _*would*_ herd in Manhattan... .


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

*Whoa, now herding's come up,*

some history...

Park Sheep - Herding on the Web

Sadly, no Poodles are mentioned, but it's some lovely Central Park info from another century.

Now, *there's* a Poodle renaissance opportunity :amen: ...


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Streetcar said:


> Yesssss, she seems talented. But I do admit to wondering just what one _*would*_ herd in Manhattan... .



She does try to herd the pigeons, and in one park, the geese


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I still haven't seen the person with the agility spoo that lives in Manhattan. I haven't forgotten about asking her where she trains.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> I still haven't seen the person with the agility spoo that lives in Manhattan. I haven't forgotten about asking her where she trains.



Odds are it is out of the city :-(


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## Poodlemana (Sep 14, 2013)

*dog park drama*

Reading this thread just about pushed every button I have. I will NEVER go back to a dog park. My small mini poo was paralyzed when a larger dog jumped on her back. It only took a second. I will never forget the sounds of her screaming as she tried to run to me dragging her rear legs! After much therapy and medical intervention she was finally able to walk again but it ended her specials career and any plans for breeding her. She was in the top ten at the time. The owner of the other dog was mortified and couldn't stop saying how sorry she was. I do not, and will never, trust another person to control the rowdy behavior of their dogs. It is my responsibility to keep my babies safe. Never again will I ever put them in that kind of danger. I know some of you feel otherwise but I just get the heebie-jeebies thinking about it. No dog parks for me or my dogs!


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

Who was on PF it who had that quote about packs of standard poodles...and where would they roam to- Blomingdale's??? So is that a herd?

I am sure I am not remembering that verbatim:act-up:

Every Friday I am down in the city and many Fridays on my way in I see the same woman walking these two gorgeous silver standards on 5th ave. We make eye contact and smile but I don't know much about them, other than they are drop dead gorgeous! Hard to manage that energy level in Manhattan... without a lot of walks- which is probably why I always see them.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Carolinek said:


> Who was on PF it who had that quote about packs of standard poodles...and where would they roam to- Blomingdale's??? So is that a herd?
> 
> I am sure I am not remembering that verbatim:act-up:
> 
> Every Friday I am down in the city and many Fridays on my way in I see the same woman walking these two gorgeous silver standards on 5th ave. We make eye contact and smile but I don't know much about them, other than they are drop dead gorgeous! Hard to manage that energy level in Manhattan... without a lot of walks- which is probably why I always see them.


Carolinek, that is sweeheartsrodeo's tag line (which I love). It is a quote from the actress Yvonne Clifford, I believe.


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

Yes- I remember now! That is a great quote.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Now I guess I really do have to come meet you one of these Fridays so I can see those two spoos too! Maybe we can include Tiny Poodles in the visit!


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

I am repeating myself again. Dogs that have been bred for millennia to fight and maim do not belong in our society and need to be banned. Working dogs used for hunting and running down game or feral animals should be TIGHTLY controlled. People will often have these sort of dogs to build up their own in-confident personality. They see having a big aggressive dog as a statement of their own aggression and fight ability that will have people respect them. Some do!
However these same kind of people have a need to demonstrate the power of their dogs and this gives them a confidence boost. They and their dogs are dangerous and need to be controlled in our open and unprotected society.
I once used to hunt feral animals with large (Stag-hound/healer/cross) dogs. The best of these was also a family pet. He was docile and every bodies-friend. Once while hunting with my young son RIP we strayed off the property we were hunting on through an open gate into another property. The irate owner assaulted me physically and I was on the ground recovering. My dog was standing back and taking it all in. But my son was frightened and gave the dog the command "get him". The dog had this man by the throat and would have killed him in seconds, if I had not been able to give him the command "leave it" I paid the medical bills (lots). The dog was destroyed. And I escaped a jail sentence only because this man attacked me first. This was in an open country area and the dog was kept normally in a 10ft fenced yard with his own house. But I can see a great danger in dogs, of this size, even when they are well trained. A dog can mistake the dynamics of a situation and react too fast to be controlled. This can be fatal if the dog is fast and powerful. They do not belong in public areas in our society, period.
Eric.


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

Lily cd- sounds like a good plan to me! Meeting some poodle people on Fridays would be a welcome change from the routine

Eric-- how horrible that must have been. And you bring up a very good point- we need to be respectful of what dogs were bred for.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

I wonder were poodles bred, in more recent times, to shop at Bloomindales?
It brings in the fact that many poodles are bred to win shows. And they do. How many I wonder are selected solely for temperament and health? We do need conformation of a breed but sometimes this can be distorted. For example: by judges who like a narrow muzzle, rather than the broad one favored by retrievers. And this is seen in poodles!!!
Eric


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

ericwd9 said:


> I wonder were poodles bred, in more recent times, to shop at Bloomindales?
> It brings in the fact that many poodles are bred to win shows. And they do. How many I wonder are selected solely for temperament and health? We do need conformation of a breed but sometimes this can be distorted. For example: by judges who like a narrow muzzle, rather than the broad one favored by retrievers. And this is seen in poodles!!!
> Eric



I swear my breeder breeds for all three! She has been working at for over fifty years, so she has had the time to work it all into her lines!


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