# Introducing Raw Bones - Spoo-Specific



## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Sorry I realized I should clarify. Chicken wings would be fine and safe for a spoo to consume, but they would probably just be too small to use for the purpose of tartar control. Not big enough to present a challenge to gnaw on I would think. But I'm sure spoo owners will know more about sizing.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

D'oh. That totally makes sense.

I guess I'm looking for two things then. The chicken wings can be a healthy addition to her diet, but I also need something that poses enough of a challenge to help clean her teeth.


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## Newport (Jul 16, 2014)

When my aussies were alive I would give them frozen turkey necks. Their teeth were sparkling! They came frozen in a big box from the butcher. I kept them in the freezer and just pulled them out as needed. The dogs did not seem to mind at all that they were frozen. Growing up in Alaska it was common to give dogs frozen meat, so I didn't think anything about it at the time. There may be updated info on feeding frozen, so double check that or just defrost.

Also, I think chicken wings might function pretty well as tooth scrubbers for a spoo as long as she is chewing them and not gulping. If you are going this route anyway, I would give it a try because they are so easy to come by.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

Turkey necks, pig neck (I haven't tried the pig but that's what I hear).
Chicken feet- added bonus of being a natural source of glucosamine.
Maybe a quarter or so of chicken carcass? I can get those from my local butcher and cut them into sections with kitchen shears.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Our local market stocks Chicken Backs. Frozen raw. 
Depending on the skill of the butcher, they come with not much breast meat, or a whole lot of it. Some would be half-pounders.
Finish your kibble and you get CHICKEN!! 
He know the drill. And his teeth stay white.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Newport said:


> Also, I think chicken wings might function pretty well as tooth scrubbers for a spoo as long as she is chewing them and not gulping. If you are going this route anyway, I would give it a try because they are so easy to come by.


I might have to get over my squeamishness and hold them for her for the first little while, otherwise I can imagine her gulping them because they feel _forbidden_. ?



Starvt said:


> Maybe a quarter or so of chicken carcass? I can get those from my local butcher and cut them into sections with kitchen shears.


Maybe a dumb question, but can I just butcher a whole chicken for her? Meat and all? Is that what you mean by carcass? Because we can get whole chickens super cheap at our local market.



Countryboy said:


> Our local market stocks Chicken Backs. Frozen raw.


Do you feed them still frozen?


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I might have to get over my squeamishness and hold them for her for the first little while, otherwise I can imagine her gulping them because they feel _forbidden_. ?


This is why I feed them frozen. I give frozen chicken necks and feet, and I give them frozen because then I know Zephyr will have to chew them up and not just swallow them. I have done this with a number of dogs now, and none of them has minded a bit!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

reraven123 said:


> This is why I feed them frozen. I give frozen chicken necks and feet, and I give them frozen because then I know Zephyr will have to chew them up and not just swallow them. I have done this with a number of dogs now, and none of them has minded a bit!


Thank you! And do you feed in a bowl? Outside? On the floor and then disinfect it?

Trying to decide which is most practical and hygienic. 

I picked up chicken wings today from the butcher and my husband assumed I was going to cook them and feed her just the meat and skin. Wish I had a photo of his face when I explained what I was _actually_ planning to do. ?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Argh. Double post. This has been happening a lot.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Do I feed them frozen?? Ho... not usually.
In a pinch, he'll gnaw away at them frozen, tho...


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I started handfeeding Peggy her first chicken wing and all was going well until I (stupidly?) tried to pet her with my other hand, the same way I always do when she's chewing a yak cheese, bully stick, antler, etc.

Well, she growled.

Peggy has NEVER growled at me before.

I immediately threw it away.

Did I handle that completely wrong from beginning to end? I figured the handfeeding was a good way to start, since it's worked so well with other high value items. Was petting her just completely idiotic? Was throwing it away even worse?


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Maybe a dumb question, but can I just butcher a whole chicken for her? Meat and all? Is that what you mean by carcass? Because we can get whole chickens super cheap at our local market.


The carcasses have had most of the meat taken off. Sometimes they have chicken backs instead, which is nearly the same, basically whatever is left over from butchering.

As far as your first attempt at feeding the wings... Since it has worked with other things I can see it makes sense to start with hand feeding those too. I don't think it was a smart idea to pet her at the same time. Raw meaty bones are the ultimate high value item for many dogs. You're already involved by holding it for her to chew, I wouldn't push it farther until she gets used to eating them.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Thank you, Starvt. She was being such a good girl, eating it carefully and not even letting her teeth touch my hand. I stupidly pushed it.

I probably also made it worse by sitting outside. Lots of barking dogs in the distance, people passing by on the sidewalk, etc. so she was already a little on edge as she tried to enjoy her mind-blowingly good new treat.

Multiple bonehead moves on my part (pun intended).

I'll do better next time. Will also inquire about chicken carcasses from the butcher at our local market. Wish we had a good old-fashioned stand-alone butcher shop.


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## Bable (Jan 19, 2020)

Wow! This is good to know! I've always thought chicken bones, cooked AND raw were bad for dogs. The raw bones I have been giving to Sable are cow leg bones, and those little round steak bones, all with the yummy marrow. I've been fortunate as far as growling goes. First time I gave her raw bone, I let her savor for a few seconds them reached down and took it away. In silence. Not a peep or a dirty look out of her. I've done it several times, she never says a word.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Bable said:


> Wow! This is good to know! I've always thought chicken bones, cooked AND raw were bad for dogs. The raw bones I have been giving to Sable are cow leg bones, and those little round steak bones, all with the yummy marrow. I've been fortunate as far as growling goes. First time I gave her raw bone, I let her savor for a few seconds them reached down and took it away. In silence. Not a peep or a dirty look out of her. I've done it several times, she never says a word.


She didn't protest when I took it away. No snatching or guarding or growling. She couldn't have been more gentle with it. 

It was when I pet her head—just a low rumble that I almost didn't catch. 

She gets lots of pets while chewing on other things. She'll even bring me her bully stick and ask me to hold it for her while she cuddles in close. So it was definitely an unwelcome surprise. I do wish it hadn't happened.

As far as the chicken bones go, they are very flexible and rubbery when they're raw. Still have to supervise, of course. And I worry about the spread of salmonella in our house so would never just let her take them and chew wherever.


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## VanessaC (Feb 24, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Maybe a dumb question, but can I just butcher a whole chicken for her? Meat and all? Is that what you mean by carcass? Because we can get whole chickens super cheap at our local market.


This is what we do on Thanksgiving and birthdays.

If you can find them, pork or lamb tails are also good raw meaty bones. I’m also a huge fan of giving beef/bison marrow bones. Keeps them entertained for hours while I’m away and once all the marrow is gone you can refill the center with canned dog food (paté type works best in my experience), freeze, and give again. It’s like a Kong, but better. I do this a few times before moving on to the next bone. 

You can probably train her to eat them on a towel, if you prefer. Take the bone away if she gets off and give it back when she is in the right place. They pick it up pretty quickly... Since you’re trying to prevent resource guarding, maybe you might want to wait until the novelty has worn off before trying this.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Thank you! A towel seems like a good idea. Easy to throw in the wash after each bone, and Peggy's already been trained to go to a bed, mat, towel, etc. and stay there.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

I wouldn't worry too much. The high value of it probably just sent her over threshold. It's common for dogs to react that way at first. Or the opposite where they are completely uninterested in them. She will probably get over the novelty soon. I feed a lot of poultry carcasses as well, but I have to cut them up for Misha. We usually do duck and pheasant that I order online.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I've gotta say, it was pretty neat watching her teeth do what they were designed for!

And thanks for the reassurance.  It's been hard going from a girl who would've turned herself inside out and done backflips before growling at me to this much more doggy dog of ours. Then again, I never fed Gracie a raw chicken wing, so who knows? Maybe she'd have surprised me.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Those of you with spoos, what type of bones/raw meat do you feed? And how did you introduce them?
> 
> I'm specifically looking for something that can be given to complement Peggy's meals, not replace them, and that will help with tartar control.


I am a bit puzzled here. When you say raw bones to compliment Peggy's meals, do you mean kibble meals? Usually feeding raw and kibble at the same time doesn't work as well. They are digested totally differently. If it were me, I would feed 9 or more hours apart. I remember having problems years ago when trying to do both. Now my Spoo is 100% raw fed.

To answer what type of bones/raw meat I feed my spoo, I do not give him separate raw bones. So for example I might give him a bone in thigh, or bone in leg or even a chicken leg quarter. But it is not deboned. Or I might give him pork chops, but again the bone and the meat together. If you are starting out I would do chicken.

If I had a small mini or toy I might do the drumlette to start.

Another thing that is excellent for their teeth is feeding raw green tripe. I just started a thread on where to find it as it isn't available in lots of locations.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Oh, just thought I would say something else I do if my dog has been eating raw meat and bones.

Always wash up well to prevent salmonella. So I wash the knife, obviously my hands, and the kitchen floor where he has been crewing on them. Then I also using a different washcloth to wash his face and then paws if he used them.

He has gotten very funny and will not drink water after eating until I wash his face, even though he doesn't really like it and sometimes tries to hide!

Then he will go drink his water! It's almost like he is saying 'Mom, I shouldn't get these germs in my drinking water.' Most amusing


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Oops, just remembered something else. If you want to thaw the meaty bones before giving them to your dog, DO NOT Microwave them. That can partly cook the bones, which can make them splinter and could cut or choke your dog. My neighbor had a terrible experience with this .

I either let them thaw in the fridge, or even on the counter, or put them in a plastic bag in a pan of cool water. Some people feed them frozen. My spoo has choked on frozen ... maybe he doesn't chew them up small enough? He seems to be fine though if there is still some partial frozen.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

kontiki said:


> I am a bit puzzled here. When you say raw bones to compliment Peggy's meals, do you mean kibble meals? Usually feeding raw and kibble at the same time doesn't work as well. They are digested totally differently. If it were me, I would feed 9 or more hours apart. I remember having problems years ago when trying to do both. Now my Spoo is 100% raw fed.


Maybe the correct term would be to occasionally supplement? Or support?

I knew they had to be separate, so was thinking that I would sometimes replace a kibble meal with raw, or add a third (raw) meal.

But if they have to be 9 hours apart, that might not work. Her breakfast and dinner aren't even 9 hours apart!

Thank you for making me aware of that number. Maybe I'll just scrap the bones idea.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I didn't say it has to be 9 hours apart. I said if it were me I would feed 9 or more hours apart. That was from my experience with my own dog before I decided that he digested the raw so much better and went totally raw. 

So please don't use that as an official number to make a decision! My computer is not working very well or I would try to do some research. I am sure there are many opinions. 

Just as there are the vets trained by pet food companies that think they shouldn't get anything raw. My own vet has totally changed her mind after seeing my dogs recovery.


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## townferret (Nov 11, 2019)

Turkey wings, turkey backs, turkey necks, (turkey meat has something to it that makes it unnecessary to add olive oil to a home diet, can't remember what it is, but maybe someone else knows,)
lamb necks, chicken (pretty much the whole carcass as you asked). I love it when I can get the lamb blade steaks which has the huge marrow and Ribs.
You especially want the a good deal of meat and sinew attached.

You can do pork necks but be prepared because there is usually a small piece they won't finish.(and they hurt when you step on them! eek!)

Basic rule of thumb is, at least until they are well-versed, no weight bearing bones, but I know a breeder (with a home pack of 12 spoo's) who starts his pups on pork thighs
as soon as they are weaned and swears by them, I have not yet tried.

I got in the habit of gloving up and holding her bones for her when she started, mostly to make sure she had a handle on it but also to 
make sure that if I had to I could get my hand down her throat and retrieve the bone without a problem. To this day I can put my hand down her throat
(I have only needed to once - she wasn't in distress and she would have worked it out, but I have a thumb,) without any bite reflex- makes brushing teeth easier too.

Then I transferred the bones to her crate, now when she smells them she runs to the crate, and stays in there for the gnaw session, 
door open. I have a laundry basket of old towels and bath mats on top to line it, and a spray bottle of lysol for after. 
Launder the towel and disinfect the crate bottom. I don't want to attract ants or other creepy things to my kitchen. 
But my former other spoo didn't do well with Lysol- (sneezes) so I used Murphys for her cleanup.

I crated because the goldens I once kept had a habit of sneaking off with bones and hiding them under furniture and beds for later- when I thought they were done, (sneaky)
and that gets icky. 

Noodle has not been able to get through a beef rib bone in one sitting so for me, it's handy that she leaves them in the crate
I refrigerate them. I don't know if it is necessary, it is just what I do.

Another thing, you will want to do the warm washcloth and soap on her face and paws afterwards like you would for a toddler, it can be sticky work!
Yay for you!
Hope some of this helps- ignore the rest


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

For some reason my Spoo will eat chicken (any and all parts), but will not eat turkey. No clue why.

I give mine his raw meaty bones on a towel on the vinyl floor in a corner of the kitchen where no one walks. He knows to keep it there. It sometimes goes off the towel which is why I wash the floor when he is done. In nice weather I often give them to him on the lawn, in a different place every day.

I am 73 and it is too hard to crawl in his crate! The floor is so much easier to wash


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

kontiki said:


> I didn't say it has to be 9 hours apart. I said if it were me I would feed 9 or more hours apart. That was from my experience with my own dog before I decided that he digested the raw so much better and went totally raw.
> 
> So please don't use that as an official number to make a decision! My computer is not working very well or I would try to do some research. I am sure there are many opinions.
> 
> Just as there are the vets trained by pet food companies that think they shouldn't get anything raw. My own vet has totally changed her mind after seeing my dogs recovery.


Oh okay! As you can see, I'm a total beginner when it comes to this stuff. You could tell me anything and I'd smile and nod. ?

But it really is helpful to hear what's worked for you. So thank you for sharing. All the opinions out there can be extremely overwhelming, so it's nice to hear some personal experiences.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

townferret said:


> Hope some of this helps- ignore the rest


It ALL helps! Thank you!


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

I used to feed fresh raw chicken backs and legs when I had access to a decent, affordable market. That has changed and the girls no longer are fed raw. They did really enjoy it although at first it was very disconcerting watching them eat. Never had a problem though I will say it didn't seem to make much difference with their teeth. They have both had yearly dental cleanings to keep the tarter buildup at bay


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