# Standard poodles



## kpj (Nov 10, 2011)

Hi all, 

A newbie here. I am looking for the first dog for my family. To be honest, I was not a big fan of poodles until recently. But the more I study, the more I like this wonderful breed, so I am pretty much determined to get one now (Havanese was a close second...)

I was initially looking for a miniature, but I read many good things about standards as well and I'm getting more and more serious about them. I have some questions for standard owners and other experts. 

1. Overall, would you recommend a standard for a first-time dog owner with a younger kid (turning 5)? We want a playful yet rather calmer pet and heard standards may be a better fit as miniatures tend to be more active. 

2. space - I've never seen a standard in person, but from what I see from pictures and movie clips, it is much bigger than I thought. Our house is not big (about 1400 sq ft with a small backyard). Will it require much indoor space? 

3. exercise - how much exercise will a standard need so that it will remain happy and not destructive? I heard it is a very energetic dog. An hour or so each day (sometimes less, sometimes more) be enough? I am not a very active person, though. I enjoy walking rather than jogging. I can do occasional throw and fetch but can't promise vigorous exercise every day. Will a standard be bored with my lifestyle? 

4. air travelling - We go on a vacation a few times a year. Will it typically be harder/cost more to air travel with a standard than with a miniature due to its size? 

5. health - Assuming that I get one from a reputable breeder, is a standard likely to suffer from more health issues than a miniature? I know it depends on an individual, but on average, which size is known to be healthier? 

6. cost - Will it be much more expensive to own a standard? It looks like standard puppies are more expensive than miniatures (from breeders). I expect I'd have to spend more on crate, food and grooming due to its size. Anything else so consider? 

7. allergy - This is not a standard-specific question, but how can one know that s/he is allergic to a poodle? How much time should one spend to really know? So far we haven't really suffered any allergy issues, but I want to make sure before adopting one. I don't have any friends who have poodles though. What would be the best way? 

Thank you in advance. 
Kyle


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

1. If you feel you can be committed to the grooming, then I believe that it could be a good first timer dog. Overall they're friendly, smart, and easy to train. If you're looking for calmer, you may want to find an adult for rescue, as they don't seem to calm down until after two.

2. My house is TINY! Though I have a large yard and my dogs go hiking and on walks, though you'll need something to energize the mind as well as the body. We work on indoor training, then some ball throwing, ect. My almost 2 year old male needs more stimulation than my 3.5 year old female, who would rather just cuddle.

3. Oops, see above

4. Yes.. travel I imagine would be expensive. You may want to consider boarding over traveling with your dog.

5. I don't think either size tends to be healthier, just be sure to really find a breeder that knows their lines.

6. I wouldn't worry about the initial price of the, I would worry about the price throughout it's life. Can you afford a quality food? Can you afford $60+ grooming every 6-8 weeks?

7. I would recommend a meet and greet, find friends with poodles (preferably one that has been groomed recently) and see if you have a reaction.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I just got my first Standard and I love it. But I have had dogs my whole life. I think a good breed for first time dog people is a Bichon Frise. They are smaller and have alot of the same traits as a poodle. They are smart and want to please you. I know of two families that tried a few dogs and could not manage it , they gave their dogs away. Then they tried the Bichon and both worked out . Also a Bolonka is great for a first time dog, they are hard to find and $$$$ but great dogs too.


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## kpj (Nov 10, 2011)

Thank you for the quick responses. I indeed studied Bichon Frise and Havanese, and was discouraged that it is quite hard to potty train them (my wife is very sensitive on this issue). I was told that Poodles are a lot better in that department. I guess it also depends on each individual and how consistent we could be during the training though.

It's been a tough job for me. First, choosing a breed. Now, choosing a size. Ahhh...


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

Miniatures are not necessarily more active than standards. It all depends on the temperment of the individual dog, regardless of size. Our mini boy, Beau, is very laid back. Maybe too much so, as we are having to reduce his calore intake to keep him from getting too plump. He's also an "oversize" mini, which means he's taller than the breed standard of 15". (He's about 16-1/2".) This is a great size for a family dog, as several other "maxi-mini" owners on the forum will attest.

Beau is our family's first-ever dog, and we couldn't be any happier. He was 6 months old when we got him, and already potty trained. We have no regrets about missing his early "puppyhood," that's for sure, and he's bonded to us so tight he might as well be named Velcro. He's a sweet cuddlebug, and smart as can be. Only thing I'm sorry about is we waited so long to get a poodle. 

Good luck in your search, and keep us posted.


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

You should really talk to one of our members here. Her screen name is Poodle Lover. She has 2 spoos and a Havanese. In fact, Julia (PL) and I were talking about organizing another poodle playdate in the city. You might want to come see her spoos, havanese and my mini and I'm sure Fozzie's mom will come join us with her beautiful black mini. Julia is not coming to the forum as often as she used to be but I can PM her and alert her of this thread.

Grooming a mini costs me $65 here in the city. Grooming a spoo will probably start from $85 (?) It may be more affordable in other parts of the Bay Area.

I looked at a few airlines and found out that most of them charge a flat fee for any approved size kennel in their cargo to fly within the 48 states.

I have talked to a lot of breeders (toys, minis, spoos, havanese, schnauzer, etc.) in the past 2 years. I am happy to share with you some info. Let me know.


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## kpj (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks again for the nice info and suggestions.

LEUllman, maybe that's what we should be looking for, an older oversized-mini puppy. I don't mind getting an older puppy at all as long as that doesn't affect trainability (which I doubt). As a first-time owner, dealing with a young puppy may be too overwhelming for us. Were you actually looking for a bigger miniature, or was it a pure luck? I am not sure if there is a breeder who's specifically breeding bigger minis, though.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Both of the Bishon's that I know about were very easy to potty train. I was surprised to hear that you heard that. I would agree a older puppy would be best. An adult might not take to the younger children and a older puppy would be easier for the adults in the house. All puppies take alot of time, but they are so worth the effort. Let us know what you get. Good Luck !


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

You could get a Caniche Moyen if you like a slightly bigger size than a mini, but not as big as a standard. You could also get a small standard like I have (she is 21.5 inches tall). There are some reputable breeders breeding Moyen's, a nonUSA size, here in the US (in Europe there are four sizes, not three). There are also a lot that are not breeding legitimate Caniche Moyens, so you do have to be very careful. You want a breeder that uses imported Moyens. My sister in law fell in love with that size and got one. She couldn't be happier with hers! 

Here is a You tube for European ones so you can see the size I am talking about. They are an 'oversized mini' size around 17/18 inches tall. They tend to be more active than a standard, but not hyper:




 

Getting an older puppy may be a good option for you, but you'd have to be a little careful. An unsocialized 6 month old puppy could be more work than a young puppy since poodles are a smart and sometimes sensitive breed. Try contacting some breeders for an older puppy. Often they will keep a couple in the litter. By 6 months old they know which ones they are going for, say, showing, and sell the other one.

Poodles are not a particularly calm breed, though, so keep that in mind. I would call a whippet a very calm, sweet breed. My whippet is the easiest puppy I ever had.


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## Tymaca (Oct 13, 2011)

I, personally, think a SPOO is the perfect dog. I have 3 kids, 13, 10 and 5. I recently rescued a 1 year old SPOO and she is doing great with my kids. Well, except for one. It is the strangest thing - she only growls at my 13 year old, but will also lick him in the next moment. I think she is unsure of his fast gestures and unpredictable behavior, as she was never around kids in her 1st year of life. He just runs in out of nowhere and approaches her without warning. I guess it's her way of saying, "I don't like your attitude with me! Watch it!". I don't think she would ever hurt him, but she definitely warns him every time. My other two kids, she is fine with! All depends on the kid, I guess.

So, bottom line - SPOO's are awesome! If you rescue one, there may be some issues that will need to be corrected. They are so smart, they will get it, but you might be better off getting a puppy from a breeder.


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

kpj said:


> Thanks again for the nice info and suggestions.
> 
> LEUllman, maybe that's what we should be looking for, an older oversized-mini puppy. I don't mind getting an older puppy at all as long as that doesn't affect trainability (which I doubt). As a first-time owner, dealing with a young puppy may be too overwhelming for us. Were you actually looking for a bigger miniature, or was it a pure luck? I am not sure if there is a breeder who's specifically breeding bigger minis, though.


We knew we wanted a mini, but finding Beau was pure luck, for sure. Although he was an older puppy, he had been very well socialized. If you could find an actual Moyen, bred from European stock, that would be awesome. But I don't think they are all that common. Anyway, if you stay active on this board, make your needs and desires known, and can be patient, something will turn up. It always does, cause we love to play matchmaker!


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Personally, I think standard poodles are the best family dog ever. They are really smart, but without the neurotic tendencies that border collies can have (having owned and loved several bc's, I feel like I can say that without being mean . They are also calmer than many breeds, GREAT with kids, and not yappy. This is of course based on the several standards poodles that I have known, although there are bound to be exceptions in the breed. But you know what I would do if I were you? Find a doggy daycare where you live, and plan to drop off your puppy or dog there regularly; they will get great socialization with other dogs (and those dogs' owners, often) and lots of exercise. We have several in our city but they are all only about $5/hour, so an hour now and then is not expensive. Also, puppy obedience is a GREAT idea; helps you to bond with your dog and also to understand him/her, and to learn the basics of dog ownership. In fact, if you have a dog daycare in your city, maybe you could go and hang around for a while before you decide on a breed. I find that there is an amazing amount of exposure to different breeds there! And the people who work there can also give you pointers on breed qualities they've observed. Another thing you could do for the exercise aspect is, share dog walking with a neighbour or friend. All dog owners have times they can't get away, so if you take their dog half the time maybe they can take your dog the other half, or even let them romp together in your yard or theirs. Just a few thoughts, but I wish you all the best in your search!


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Mine is also an oversized mini - 17.5" tall, 20 lbs.

And you know what, Beau's breeder has a 11-month-old silver mini girl available right now.


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## MamaTiff (Sep 23, 2011)

1. My standard is excellent with kids- whom are just about the loudest most obnoxious kids you could ever meet. Seriously. And my back yard is the neighborhood meeting spot. I usually have 3 to 10 5-13 year old kids running around my yard and she is just great with them. The only thing is that she is mouthy and her way of playing is jumping on the kids and grabbing their sleeves (somthing I am working on fixing) so most of them think it's fun and they know Darby but I could see it scaring some kids. So in this case a mini would be better if you think you're little ones wouldn't like getting jumped on so much. My neighborhood is all boys and they love the rough dog play!

2. Our house is about the same size with a smallish yard and she does just fine. 

3. It depends on the dog. Darby is 10 months old but SUPER laid back. She is happy as a clam to just sit on the couch all day. I try to get out as much as possible but usually I get in 5 good walks a week. She has never been a hyper pup so if you are a less active family I would definately try to shoot for a laid back pup. I love how lazy she is!

4. I don't think I would want to try to fly my dog if I don't have to. This past August we drove 2 days to St. Louis just so we could bring her with us.

5. Can't answer that one. But if you want a healthy dog go for one from a responsible breeder.

6. Yup standards are more expensive. Food, medication, grooming... 

7. Go talk to a groomer and spend some time there or in a boarding facility. If anyone is allergic to dogs you should have a reaction there!


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

Hi Kyle,

I am owned by two standards and a havanese and I am also a fellow San Franciscan.
There are actually quite a bit of similarities between my Standard and my Havanese. Maybe it's because the little one grew up together with the standards and is suffering from identity crisis. lol

There is so much I would like to share, but I am crazy pressed for time right now and will send you a PM.

Best,


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

Kyle - Do I "know" you from dogforums??? I posted a few links on your intro message to threads here that might be helpful.

Here's what I can share about space & exercise, but keep in mind that I've had Katie, who is 6 months old, for only a few weeks.

For now, until she's comfortable and trustworthy here, Katie is confined to the kitchen, our bedroom, and two hallways. She's perfectly content. As we all learn to trust each other, she'll have more space, but for now everything is fine. She has a few favorite spots and hangs out there when we're home. She is unbelievably calm in the house. We do play fetch (usually until one of us hits her head - ouch), but I'm the one to initiate.

For exercise, she gets about a half hour in the morning and evening. Before he leaves for work, my husband has her out to explore outside and they go for a short walk. When I get home at night, we play in the yard (she runs around carrying and chasing sticks) and we practice walking nicely. Last night, I got home later than usual so our play time was cut short - she was fine.

I think I'm on the same energy / exercise wavelength as you and everyone I talked to said I'd be fine. I'm trying very hard to teach "loose leash walking" and plan to use Katie as motivation to get myself moving a little more.

I will say that in terms of health and temperament, finding a good breeder is crucial. They know their lines and what to expect from their dogs. 

Good luck!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I fly with my toy all the time. A toy can go in the cabin with you any other size of poodle would not fit under the seat. You probably would not want to fly your dog in the cargo hold. When I had my Aussie I had a pet sitter come to the house or you may find a good place to board.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Hi Kyle,

Given your preferences, I think that it would be important for you to look for a spoo who is has been bred for a calm temperament. I have known standard poodles who are very active and need a huge amount of exercise but I do not think this is the norm. The 3 poodles that I have had are/were all quite calm. Ask breeders about the temperaments of the dam and sire, and meet them if you can. Many people talk about temperament testing for the pups, and while I don't doubt that temperament testing can be be very helpful, some lines just produce more active dogs than others. And it sounds like you want one from calmer lines.

I agree with other posters that your house and yard and exercise plan all sound fine, assuming that you do not get a really hyperactive dog. IMO poodles need mental stimulation as much as they need physical exercise (or more!). They love being part of family activities and may not do well if they are left alone all day every day. I think life in a family with a 5 year old sounds just great for a poodle (and for the 5 year old). Love your idea of taking the dog on vacation with you, but I would also question whether air travel is a good idea for a dog. 

With regard to cost, make sure you include meds in your calculations. My dogs are on monthly FrontlinePlus (fleas and ticks) and Interceptor (heartworm prevention) and that does add to the overall cost.

Loved hearing from Cookieface who has found what sounds like a terrific dog, after much thought and research! Hopefully you will too! Let us know how it goes.


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

One more thing - my husband has been calculating cost per month (food, vet care, grooming, medications, etc). I'll ask him about the numbers tonight and share. He'll be so happy that I'm asking about money - usually, I'm oblivious


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## kpj (Nov 10, 2011)

Thank you all again for excellent feedback.

Sounds like a spoo can be a good fit for my family as well. My wife is a stay-home mom so the dog won't be left alone for long hours. There is a park near my house within a walking distance, so I can use that open space for more activities other than walking.

Cookieface, yes, I asked questions on dogforums.com as well.  I'd really appreciate if you could calculate monthly upkeep cost for your spoo. May I ask who the breeder is as well? 

I agree that air travel is not really convenient. I think there are many vacation spots near my area (northern CA) that accept dogs. Otherwise, boarding sounds like a good option.

Another question. Many people sent me info on breeders who are far from me. Assuming that they are known to be responsible/reputable and also approved by members here, is it a really bad idea to trust the breeder and ship a puppy without meeting the parents/the puppy in person? Some even say that breeders who ship their puppies are not reputable, but I'd like to hear what you think or your personal experience. For example, my wife and daughter are really interested in getting a red poodle, but so far I haven't found any reputable ones near me.

Thanks again!


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## oceanrose (Sep 10, 2011)

I'd like to add to all this excellent advice, but as a first time dog owner, I'd strongly recommend skipping the puppy route and instead finding a young adult dog who is partially trained.

There are a lot of great dogs in rescue programs that have extensive training, especially right now with the economy and so many people losing their homes. Reputable breeders will often also have dogs to place, including older puppies who didn't turn out quite as nice as their siblings, or else an adult who is being placed due to space issues. 

It's best to find someone close, but shipping is easy and really not too difficult. There are several red poodle breeders on this board who might be able to assist you .


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

When I was looking for a puppy, I was quite interested in a breeder in California and I am on the east coast. I was thinking about flying out to meet the breeder and the parents. But then I'd have the problem of how to get the pup back home. In the end the whole thing seemed too difficult, so I decided to limit myself to breeders that were within a day's drive. I do think that meeting the breeder and the pup's parents is extremely important (at least the dam, preferably both). 

One of my neighbors bought a puppy and had it shipped to her. She said that the puppy was terrified when he got off the plane and that he was terrified of any engine noises for a long time afterward (maybe he still is, I'm not sure). 

My puppy's breeder was 2 hours away from me and I made the trip twice. When I was bringing my girl home, she sat in my lap and part of the way home she vomited. Good thing I had towels. Another friend who bought a puppy recently had exactly the same experience. I think any travelling is tough on these little 8 week old puppies who have never been separated from their mom and siblings. Personally, I'd rather get a puppy in the "wrong" color close to home. But that's my opinion, and it is based on my rather limited experience. I'd be interested in other forum members' experience and opinions.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Not trying to be contrary or argumentative, but we have shipped a lot of puppies. Three from Ontario, Canada to California, one to NYC., one to Winnepeg, three to Vancouver, at least two to each of the maritime provinces but Newfoundland. Rory flew in the cabin to Oklahoma City and Murphy to Berlin, Germany. Quincy flew to me in Ontario from Iceland. Not one of these puppies was traumatized in the least. They were given baby KONGS filled with peanut butter to keep them busy when they were not sleeping. They bounded out of their crates into the arms of their new people without a moment's hesitation. I am looking at a puppy going to South Africa in a year or so, one from our next litter going to Austria, and purchasing another from Europe to show. I will not hesitate. It has gone swimmingly with no ill effects to the pups whatsoever. Don't let the idea of shipping deter you from getting the pup of your dreams.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Arreau -- You are not being argumentative at all. Thanks for your comments. You have much more experience in this than I do, and I found your perspective to be quite interesting.


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## kpj (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks. 

Rather than the potential trauma to the puppy (which of course I should avoid if possible), I am more concerned about not being able to visit the breeder in person. As mentioned, I also think it is important to meet the parents (at least the mom) and check their temperaments, size, etc. Also, see the environment where the dogs/puppies live, how they are raised, etc. 

I don't mind driving 2-3 hours, but longer drive is not really convenient as I have a young kid.

Like everything else, life is not perfect and I may not be able find any I like locally. Then I'll have no choice but going with a reputable breeder who would ship. 

I am not too picky on the color, although I feel black poodles are a bit intimidating . But I'll have to respect what my family wants anyway. Oh well. 

Would appreciate any inputs/experience on buying a puppy w/o visiting the breeder.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> Not trying to be contrary or argumentative, but we have shipped a lot of puppies. Three from Ontario, Canada to California, one to NYC., one to Winnepeg, three to Vancouver, at least two to each of the maritime provinces but Newfoundland. Rory flew in the cabin to Oklahoma City and Murphy to Berlin, Germany. Quincy flew to me in Ontario from Iceland. Not one of these puppies was traumatized in the least. They were given baby KONGS filled with peanut butter to keep them busy when they were not sleeping. They bounded out of their crates into the arms of their new people without a moment's hesitation. I am looking at a puppy going to South Africa in a year or so, one from our next litter going to Austria, and purchasing another from Europe to show. I will not hesitate. It has gone swimmingly with no ill effects to the pups whatsoever. Don't let the idea of shipping deter you from getting the pup of your dreams.


The Winnepeg puppy was MINE!!! :lol: And I can concur that she was completely and wonderfully awesome when we finally got her out of the crate (Arreau is super careful about making sure that none of her puppies will ever accidentally get loose at an airport - the travel kennel was securely zip tied pretty much everywhere!!) :lol:

I have some pictures and video of her first few moments off the plane and she was in great shape after her trip. After picking her up in Winnepeg, we still had a 6.5 hour drive to get back home and she sat in my lap the whole way and slept a lot of the trip back (like puppies do).

I would not hesitate to have a puppy shipped to me in the future as long as the breeder knows what they're doing as far as getting appropriate flights, etc. 

Good luck with your research and your future puppy (whatever you decide!)

Barb


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

You should PM Plumcrazy, our moderator. Her girl Lucy is from here. MurphyRedGermanBoy is Murphy, and he is the boy who went to Germany. His new Mommy did not meet me until a solid commitment had been made. I am not suggesting you buy a puppy from me, but there are red flags to watch for and there is no reason, if you are careful, to not buy a puppy from afar. I could tell when I was interested in purchasing Quincy from Winnow, another member, what I wanted to do to assure I was getting the dog I wanted, that he was being raised as was being represented to me, and that my puppy would get to me when promised. Winnow more than satisfied my inquiries, she took videos I asked her to take, we Skyped one another...just like with me, everything from beginning to end was transparent. If she had staged our calls and the videos she did for me, all of her time would have been spent staging, and the puppies would not have been as well balanced as they were, as well groomed as they were or as spotlessly kept as they were. All of her free time would have been eaten up staging. I am open to Skyping with anyone, and am willing to cart my laptop around the house to show people the conditions here. There is no lying in real time. I would not hesitate to buy from a breeder willing to do the same as I am willing to do.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

plumcrazy said:


> The Winnepeg puppy was MINE!!! :lol: And I can concur that she was completely and wonderfully awesome when we finally got her out of the crate (Arreau is super careful about making sure that none of her puppies will ever accidentally get loose at an airport - the travel kennel was securely zip tied pretty much everywhere!!) :lol:
> 
> I have some pictures and video of her first few moments off the plane and she was in great shape after her trip. After picking her up in Winnepeg, we still had a 6.5 hour drive to get back home and she sat in my lap the whole way and slept a lot of the trip back (like puppies do).
> 
> ...


LOL!! We must have been typing at the same time! OH YES!!! I am the zip tie QUEEN!!!


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## kpj (Nov 10, 2011)

That's good to know. I'll definitely keep that option open.  Thanks!


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Hi, and welcome. I'm new to poodles, too ... I have a two year old miniature. Fantastic dogs. My S.O. is wildly allergic to anything with fur, and tolerates the poodle just fine. 

One of the things that surprised me, even though I thought I was prepared for it, was the time and expense of grooming. Mine goes to a groomer every five weeks or so, at £35 per go. On top of the cost of grooming is the logistics to get him to and from the groomer. And he needs regular brushing as well, even though I keep him in a short, simple clip.

That said, it is well worth it. Very smart, trainable dogs, and they stick like glue :smile:.

Good luck!


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## soon2bmommi (Mar 9, 2011)

Cabernet standard poodles is close to you. Mary has gorgeous dogs and is very active with the breed. I think shes the president or something of the mission trails poodle club of northern Ca. Granduer has lovely standards as well, i've seen a few in person. Penndragon in Benecia, very ethical and gorgeous dogs.. Good luck


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Although Sunny is not a puppy, he is 3 1/2 I did get him from a breeder in Canada and I live just north of Chicago. I didn't set out to find someone in Canada with a poodle, it just turned out that way. Anyway, yes, it was an ordeal and although he was accustomated to being crated, traveling in crate, etc., there were problems in ND, where he boarded the plane, delays, and then he flew to Minneapolis. I had to fly to Minneapolis and then pick him up and rented a car and drove 9 hours home. To say the least, I don't think I would do that again ---- but am so glad I did, Sunny is something special for sure. And yes, although 2 months plus, he is still dealing with jumpiness with loud sounds, etc., and we think the flight may have been more eventful. I also have a friend who got a pup from Canada I think, and he was shipped. Guess weather conditions or cargo conditions were difficult, and she said the pup was always afraid of loud noises, thunderstorms, etc., and she attributed it to the transport. People may disagree on this forum, and I am sure many times it is uneventful, but if it isn't, well, it can take a long time to get over. I too, will drive if ever I get to MPS!


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

kpj said:


> Cookieface, yes, I asked questions on dogforums.com as well.  I'd really appreciate if you could calculate monthly upkeep cost for your spoo. May I ask who the breeder is as well?


Our *very preliminary* estimate is about $250/month and that includes food, routine veterinary care and medications, grooming, and insurance to cover catastrophic illness/injury. I'm not sure how much he factored in for treats, toys, and training. 

I think it sounds a little high, but I'm the type who doesn't really pay much attention to prices. Can anyone here comment?

Katie's breeder is Cindy Crawley at Beauciel near Baltimore.



soon2bmommi said:


> Cabernet standard poodles is close to you. Mary has gorgeous dogs and is very active with the breed. I think shes the president or something of the mission trails poodle club of northern Ca. Granduer has lovely standards as well, i've seen a few in person. Penndragon in Benecia, very ethical and gorgeous dogs.. Good luck


I have no first-hand knowledge of Cabernet, but I can put you in touch with someone who does. She speaks very highly of Mary & Scott Olund. I've read very good things about Penndragon, too. I think both are very close to you. 

Also, Carol Brand at Beauvoir in Colorado has been amazingly helpful to me in my search. Terry Farley at Farley's D in Pennsylvania specializes in red and apricot, so he may be able to suggest a good breeder on the west coast. He has also been very helpful to me.

I realize that these most breeders don't have red poodles, but they could very likely point you in the direction of a reputable red breeder.

Good luck!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

liljaker said:


> Although Sunny is not a puppy, he is 3 1/2 I did get him from a breeder in Canada and I live just north of Chicago. I didn't set out to find someone in Canada with a poodle, it just turned out that way. Anyway, yes, it was an ordeal and although he was accustomated to being crated, traveling in crate, etc., there were problems in ND, where he boarded the plane, delays, and then he flew to Minneapolis. I had to fly to Minneapolis and then pick him up and rented a car and drove 9 hours home. To say the least, I don't think I would do that again ---- but am so glad I did, Sunny is something special for sure. And yes, although 2 months plus, he is still dealing with jumpiness with loud sounds, etc., and we think the flight may have been more eventful. I also have a friend who got a pup from Canada I think, and he was shipped. Guess weather conditions or cargo conditions were difficult, and she said the pup was always afraid of loud noises, thunderstorms, etc., and she attributed it to the transport. People may disagree on this forum, and I am sure many times it is uneventful, but if it isn't, well, it can take a long time to get over. I too, will drive if ever I get to MPS!


As a breeder, and the person responsible for making the arrangements to get a puppy into their new home, I believe it is imperative that things be done just so. I will not send a puppy on a flight that is not direct. I do not want to think of a puppy being moved from one plane to another. We hear so often of lost luggage. The idea of a puppy ending up at the wrong airport terrifies me. There have been a couple of instances where the flights were direct, but made one stop in another city to load more passengers, then off it went again. In a perfect world, I'd like to see only one takeoff and landing, but that is not always possible. If there are not direct flights to the pup's destination, then the puppy flies to the nearest airport to it's new home and the new family must drive too pick the puppy up there. Thankfully, in every instance, the pups have been absolutely no worse for the wear and seem entirely unaffected by their ventures. I am sorry your guy seemed to have such long lasting, negative repercussions from his.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

He was on a direct flight; she drove 7 hours from Wolsely to Minot, ND and personally put hiim on the plane, and I would not have had a multi-stop ship nor would she have done that. Also, the ONLY airline she would use from Wolsely to the U.S. was the Minot, ND Delta route, and this happened when NW was in the process of purchasing Delta, and as a result, they changed processes on her -- unbeknown to her, as she had it all scheduled. This was not a breeder goof, and the other situation is from someone who has always had spoos and some years back purchased one from a breeder in Canada, too, and there was turbulence and she, too, would never do it again.

I am not saying it isn't safe, I am saying my experience and that of someone I know was not positive, but I may well be in a minority as I hear many positive comments about people getting dogs shipped. You must have misunderstood my post -- she would not have flown him if not direct.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

P.S. I flew to Minneapolis, MN to get Sunny and rented a Jeep and drove 9 hours back home.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Sorry. I guess I did misunderstand.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

No problem -- good news is he is doing better and we are at 2 1/2 months now.

Now, only if he would "perform" for the walker!!!!! (That, too, has been 3 weeks)


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I drove 7 hours to get Swizzle (14 hours round trip). I have no experience in having a poodle flown in to comment on this but to me it was worth the trip to get a well bred dog. If your wife and daughter have their hearts set on a red poodle it is going to be more of a challenge. You are a man after my own heart because you are a researcher. You know that this is a long term commitment and you want to know what you are getting into. You might have to go farther than you want or even have a puppy flown to you but it is well worth it to get a healthy puppy with a great personality.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

kpj said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I was initially looking for a miniature, but I read many good things about standards as well and I'm getting more and more serious about them. I have some questions for standard owners and other experts. I second the vote for an oversized miniature. They really are the perfect size. Mine (black one below) is 17.5" and 18 lbs and he's as close to perfect (for me) as they come. He was somewhat of a fluke, but his father is the same size. There are breeders who specialize in the "Moyen" size, and there are breeders who occasionally get one by accident, like Cabryn. See: "Chagall," owned by Chagall's Mom.
> 
> ...


I hope that helps! Also, please consider an older puppy or a retired adult dog. Breeders will often rehome such dogs, but as they're not "discount puppies," be prepared to pay approximately the same price as you would for a puppy. I'd be somewhat wary of a breeder who pawned off retired dogs or older puppies at a significantly discounted prices, but that's just MHO. Their not inferior, but just older, quality POOS who haven't found the right home yet. There are exceptions to this of course! 

I have a retired stud dog and he's simply amazing. I recommend checking with reputable breeders if you'd consider an adult dog. I'm sure others on here can help you on that front (especially the breeders who often hear of such dogs being available).


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

cookieface said:


> Our *very preliminary* estimate is about $250/month and that includes food, routine veterinary care and medications, grooming, and insurance to cover catastrophic illness/injury.


This sounds very high to me. When you first get a puppy there are more costs, of course. You can expect a few hundred for toys, bedding, kennel, leash/collar, food bowls, grooming supplies. I purchased a puppy package for the vaccines and it was $250 with a discount on spay/neuter. You could also go to vaccine clinics through the spca which are very inexpensive, but I liked going to a regular veterinarian. Food varies a lot depending on what you choose to feed. I use a good quality kibble (nothing from the grocery store) and canned with some raw and it is around $40 a month? I don't have the pet insurance, but she has never needed to go to the vet for anything. There were additional costs like carpet cleaning when she was being housetrained . There are also the costs of puppy classes ($100) and right now agility class ($150). Grooming a poodle is the biggy. Since you live in the bay area, your grooming costs could be high. You should check with several groomers in your area and ask how much. Mine is cheaper overall if I go more often, so I take mine every two weeks for $25 before a year old and $30 after a year. If I go every 4-6 weeks it is around $75 each time. It can be up to a $100 or more if you wait until the dog is a mess, but I could never do that and I hope you wouldn't either. A miniature poodle is less money to groom, of course. 

A poodle is a luxury to own because of the grooming costs, but many people learn to groom themselves, invest in all the equipment and then they have no grooming costs. You still need to expect to brush and comb in between. I love the cycle of ragamuffin to beauty over and over with a poodle. 

It is best to choose a dog from a healthy poodle line to increase the chances of a healthy dog. I am sure you can locate healthy tested lines on the West coast, but you may need to go further a field if you want a rarer color. Reds used to have health issues, but not so much with careful breeding now. There are some breeders breeding willy nilly for color only, so be careful. 

I look forward to your choice! Black poodles are one of the calm temperment colors, if you believe in the color/personality link, by the way. 

Remember that just like brown poodles, most red poodles do not stay deep red. That isn't to say they aren't a beautiful color, but almost all reds and browns do fade some. Have you looked on the poodle colors threads? Every color has some beautiful dogs. 

A person can research to death, but at some point you have to take the plunge and do it.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

outwest said:


> A poodle is a luxury to own because of the grooming costs, but *many people learn to groom themselves, invest in all the equipment and then they have no grooming costs. You still need to expect to brush and comb in between. I love the cycle of ragamuffin to beauty over and over with a poodle. ... Black poodles are one of the calm temperment colors, if you believe in the color/personality link, by the way. *


This is precisely why I chose the breed.  It's been fun learning to groom and while the equipment wasn't cheap, it paid for itself within a few grooms. (I have three MPOOS.) I love the daily brushing and they really enjoy it too--it's a great bonding experience, and if you like to play with hair, I highly recommend learning to groom. 

I'm not sure I believe all the myths about dog temperament varying by color, but this is always an interesting point. I've seen crazed black POOS and calm white POOS, and vice-versa. However, I must say that my *black *MPOO is the calmest of the lot, and he's also the biggest. He's my "once in a lifetime" dog, no doubt. I agree with *Outwest*: check out the Rainbow threads for some gorgeous specimens of all sizes and colors!


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## kpj (Nov 10, 2011)

Thank you all so much for your valuable inputs. I agree that I can't research forever.  We will start visiting local breeders in January (frequent travels and vacations planned till the end of the year) and hopefully we can determine which size to get until then. Right now we are leaning toward an oversized mini (or a mini if we can't find an oversized one).

My kid still wants a red, but thanks to the excellent poodle gallery on this forum, my wife is now getting more and more interested in silver as well. So we'll wait and see.


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

schnauzerpoodle said:


> Mine is also an oversized mini - 17.5" tall, 20 lbs.
> 
> And you know what, Beau's breeder has a 11-month-old silver mini girl available right now.


And oh, we are SOOOO sorely tempted! I keep looking at her picture -- she is Beau's half sister, and so very beautiful! -- and wondering if I should pick up the phone. I practically have to slap my own hand down when it wants to reach for the phone, as it does right now. Really, the only thing holding me back is the extra grooming expense. Maybe we could just eat Kraft Dinner for a while? :smile:


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

LEUllman said:


> Really, the only thing holding me back is the extra grooming expense.


Maybe you could get a GROUP RATE at your groomers!! :lol:


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

LEUllman said:


> And oh, we are SOOOO sorely tempted! I keep looking at her picture -- she is Beau's half sister, and so very beautiful! -- and wondering if I should pick up the phone. I practically have to slap my own hand down when it wants to reach for the phone, as it does right now. Really, the only thing holding me back is the extra grooming expense. Maybe we could just eat Kraft Dinner for a while? :smile:


She IS pretty, isn't she! She's Nickel's cousin (her sire is an Aery's). I'm so tempted too but my husband really wants something other than a silver this time ….


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

I am here to lobby for an mini, perhaps in silver mini? Why, you ask? Well, a picture is worth at 1,000 words...Chagall was on the look-out for trick-or-treaters following our freak October snowstorm last month. His temperament is such that he would not only have handed out the candy, but unwrapped it for the recipients! Alas, no one came; there was no electric power and no phone service due to the storm, but our steadfast greeter stood at the ready, just in case! 

Chagall is an over-sized mini, I keep saying he's 17.5" but I measured him today and he appears even taller! (Of course I think he's perfect, and I would suggest a clone, but the technology and social mores aren't quite in sync.) I have recently begun to home-groom him, not out of monetary concerns, but because I so enjoy having him with me and doing anything and everything with him. (This forum gave me the guts to do it!) He is a most forgiving soul, he indulged me for 2.5 hours on Saturday while I clipped and snipped! He is also most obliging to my energy level; he'll hike, swim, walk, fetch or lay by my side on the couch, mostly letting me decide when and what activity to undertake. He loves children, people of all kinds, whether wheelchair bound, or tall and burly with mustaches. I got him from a well-established breeder, and put in the time to train him. (His has his Canine Good Citizenship designation so the training clearly took! lol!). I think a poodle isn't so much a "luxury," as it is a _necessity._ Good luck in you search. Can't wait to hear you're choosing a name for a poodle of your own!!:smile:


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

What a beautiful picture of Chagall! He appears to be Moyen size - such a nice size. He really is a most handsome fellow.


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Chagall's mom said:


> Chagall is an over-sized mini, I keep saying he's 17.5" but I measured him today and he appears even taller!


Nickel asked, "How tall is my cousin now? Is he taller than I am?"


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

schnauzerpoodle said:


> Nickel asked, "How tall is my cousin now? Is he taller than I am?"


Okay, two things: very sorry to hijack this thread a tad, and are we measuring height right?? It is a struggle to get Chagall to stand and stay once he sees the tape measure. My dh "helped" with the process this morning and he says Chagall is 18+"?! Next time we're at the groomer's, vet's or breeder's, I'll get it done right. (Beginning to wonder if we're smart enough to have a poodle, are ya'?!:biggrin: )


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## Kmom (Nov 18, 2011)

Hi! I am also a first time dog owner who just got my puppy 1 1/2 months ago. Today he is four months! 
1. Totally recommend a standard poodle. I found a breeder with a litter of calm temperment puppies. 
2. My house is 1900 sq. ft. - size doesn't matter. They love to be in whatever room you are in!
3. Just this week our puppy is able to walk a mile in the morning and again after dinner. We got him at 8 1/2 weeks. Typically he wants to play for about an hour and then sleep for 2 -3 hours. The big walks really tire him out and then he is happy to just hang out.
4. Don't know.
5. It always pays to do your research and find a good breeder. My breeder spent hours on the phone with me during the six weeks I waited to bring Kobe home. I still call her with questions and to keep in touch. Breeders are one of the best resources, as well as online forums!
6. The main expenses are food, grooming, and vet bills (routine health care).
7. My 15 year old daughter has always been allergic to dogs. When she comes home from friends' houses who have dogs, she has to immediately shower and she is stuffy etc. We have had Kobe since mid/end of September and my daughter has not sneezed, sniffed, or had one sign of allergy.

Also, I wanted to share that standard poodles don't have any dog smell and obviously no shedding. 

Good luck!!!

I look forward to hearing what your decision is on a puppy. I must say that now I know why everyone says once you get a standard poodle, you never have any other dog.


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