# Increasing recall speed?



## sarpoodle (Dec 26, 2011)

lwm1984 said:


> I read somewhere that differential rewarding might work; i.e., really slow or unreliable recall receives no feedback, slow recall gets kibble, and fast recall gets chicken or some high value treat. Would this likely be good? Any other suggestions? Thanks


This can be an effective method. I've used that in my recall drills with success. If Saydee came back fast and immediately, she got the big reward. If she didn't, then I gave her a reward, but of lesser value (something she may get more routinely for other training). The high value reward I use for recall is only given to her for this particular drill and nothing else.

Saydee is 1 year old now, and this is really her first time experiencing Summer smells. At first, it was proving to be a distraction. The heat is making scent go off the charts because it speeds up the release of gasses. Point in case, I was working with her one day, and she kept getting distracted. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out what she was in scent over. Turns out, she was smelling a dying bird that was over 3 houses away.

To circumvent this, I've done the following. Her jackpot reward needs to have a stronger smell than the other stuff out there. I've been slicing up little pieces of a brat, and put it in the microwave for about 15 seconds to heat it up and better activate the odor. When I put Saydee in a sit-stay, she is kept downwind from me so she can't help but smell the food. The whole time I put her into position, and then walk away, she can smell that treat. When I recall her, she flies to me without delay.

I've been doing this for several weeks now, and it's really starting to pay dividends.

The point is, whatever you do, make that reward beyond irresistible.

Now, in my case, Saydee is a working dog. When she is not working, she remains in her kennel. Whenever I train her on something important, there are some days when I do very little with her. Because her time out of the kennel is limited, when I work with her, she is on fire. The learning is accelerated for her as a result.

Your dog may not fit this category, but you can still follow a similar principle. Deny the dog things that would otherwise stimulate it (toys, treats, etc.), and save those for the sole purpose of training. Keep the day super boring until you're ready to train, and then bring all of those things to bear to make the drill exciting.

Greg


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## lwm1984 (Apr 15, 2012)

Thanks for the advice. You are always tremendously helpful! My spoo is definitely not a working dog, unfortunately. She's a total couch potato, and usually I get bored before her, due to the fact that she just sleeps all day. I am trying to only engage her in training when she's at her most energetic, so that's usually right after walks.

In one respect, I like the fact that she's really low maintenance, but I think that also makes her a little more difficult to train. Her pedigree is definitely totally for show, and her drive is quite low. She does, however, like to chase small animals and such, and she gets excited for meat, so some of her drive is there. 

My GSD came from a total working line, and she was super easy to train. She could almost do anything I asked, but if I didn't stimulate her constantly she'd turn into a handful. Sometimes after a short walk my spoo will look at me and seem to say, "WHY ARE WE WALKING? THERE IS NO AIR CONDITIONING OUT HERE. ARE YOU INSANE?!? IF I HAVE TO WALK ANOTHER TEN FEET, I SWEAR I'LL MAKE YOU CARRY ME!!" LOL.

I think I'd be awesome to meet Saydee. I've never met a working poodle before, but I'd love to!


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## sarpoodle (Dec 26, 2011)

Ha ha! That's hilarious. Well, I'm glad my input has been helpful.

If your spoo likes to chase small animals, have you engaged her in any play that involves prey drive? I wonder how well that could be utilized as a reward.

That's the funny thing about standards. They are so stinking smart, and it forces you to stay creative and unpredictable to keep them guessing. If the exercise seems silly, overly repetitive, and if they see a clearly better alternative, they will take it. By being random in their eyes, that can be a huge incentive for them to perform well.

Tapping into her prey drive might be something new and fresh to throw at her for your recall drill.

Greg


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## lwm1984 (Apr 15, 2012)

sarpoodle said:


> If your spoo likes to chase small animals, have you engaged her in any play that involves prey drive? I wonder how well that could be utilized as a reward.
> 
> Tapping into her prey drive might be something new and fresh to throw at her for your recall drill.


Since she only displays very limited toy drive (99% of the time she'll watch a ball that is thrown, but won't go after it), I tried to tie in a toy to food. I took a jute toy and boiled it in chicken broth, and then after it dried tied it to a string. When she's in a higher drive state, I encourage her to chase after it, and she seems pretty enthusiastic about that. I never let her catch it, and I try to end these short play sessions at a time when I think her drive is at its peak. When her drive is stimulated to that point, she'll chase after a ball (not chicken infused) and occasionally bring it back to me.

Of course, that's her "special" toy, and it goes away after we play with it (and I don't want her to eat it!). I'm hoping that after a while it'll bring up any drive that might have been suppressed during her first 14 months of puppyhood (she's only been with me for a little over a month, but her adjustment was really fast - faster than I anticipated. Although I also expect that her personality will continue to develop as she gains even more confidence). 

I'm curious if you use any training collars or other correction-based training methods with your standard? I got my GSD when she was already 4 years old; she was sort of a pet to a family that did a lot of police dog and PPD training, so she was exposed to the foundations of Schutzhund, but with more of an emphasis on obedience and less on tracking and protection. Her heels, sits, stays, recalls, etc. were amazing. Anyway, I spent a few days with her trainer getting a crash course in the methods used, and he basically starts motivationally with markers, and once the dog knows a command, will move to a correction phase with a prong collar, and then lastly a proofing phase with distractions and corrections, with the intent of producing responses from the dog that are immediate and consistent.

Now, I'm not really all that knowledgable about dog training, but I just kept this up with my GSD since that's how she was trained, and it seemed to produce very good results. Now, however, I'm trying to only use positive training methods with my spoo, but maybe I should think about training collar options? She's a bit of a puller sometimes, and after trying a prong on myself, I feel like I'd prefer the prong to a flat collar constantly bumping my trachea. 

Right now I'm working on just changing directions, and other non-corrective methods, but she gets really distracted sometimes, especially when she smells other dog's urine and such. I definitely want her to know that when I issue a command it's not optional but mandatory, and maybe a training collar would be best for that once I know she 100% understands what I want her to do? 

Generally speaking, I don't think my spoo needs a lot of serious training, since she's always sleeping in the house, and is 90% well-behaved outside. However, I wouldn't mind doing some more involved obedience training, maybe working up to the level of my GSD if my spoo responds well, since it seems like a good way to bond and also a fun activity for us to do together. 

Sorry, that was a very long-winded way of asking if you use any negative reinforcement or other corrective methods with your working spoo...


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## sarpoodle (Dec 26, 2011)

lwm1984 said:


> Since she only displays very limited toy drive (99% of the time she'll watch a ball that is thrown, but won't go after it), I tried to tie in a toy to food. I took a jute toy and boiled it in chicken broth, and then after it dried tied it to a string. When she's in a higher drive state, I encourage her to chase after it, and she seems pretty enthusiastic about that. I never let her catch it, and I try to end these short play sessions at a time when I think her drive is at its peak. When her drive is stimulated to that point, she'll chase after a ball (not chicken infused) and occasionally bring it back to me.
> 
> ....


Very creative. Saydee is not super high drive like your garden variety GSD can be. She entered a phase at around 6 months where she became profoundly distracted by ground scent. We've worked hard on overcoming that distraction, and this was one of the toys I used to accomplish it.

Ultimate Jackpot toy - tug and treat toy

All of our standards love bullysticks. Saydee will do just about anything I ask her for one. Well, I took a 12" bullystick, chopped it up into little pieces, and put it into this toy. Then I let it marinate for a day. When I showed her that toy, she really got into it. She would tug like crazy on it with me. Now, I never gave her the pieces of bullystick inside, but that is really the idea behind the toy. Use food drive, and help to build up play drive, then blow the dog's mind by opening it up to show the treats inside. Fairly effective toy. Sounds like you already figured that out with what you whipped up. The jute toys may be too hard for a poodle to really sink its teeth into. Poodles are so soft mouthed. The tugs I currently use with Saydee for her jackpot reward are double handle leather tugs that are very thin. She tends to favor things she can get her whole mouth closed over. She never got into the fire hose or jute tugs commonly used with GSD's and labs. In fact, this is the tug we use. It is really designed as a beginner tug toy for a GSD when they are pups and still have young teeth.

Rolled Leather Dog Tug Toy : DogSport Gear

That other tug toy with the pouch really appealed to because the handles and pouch were thin enough that she could clamp her mouth closed on it, and really thrash it around.



lwm1984 said:


> I'm curious if you use any training collars or other correction-based training methods with your standard? I got my GSD when she was already 4 years old; she was sort of a pet to a family that did a lot of police dog and PPD training, so she was exposed to the foundations of Schutzhund, but with more of an emphasis on obedience and less on tracking and protection. Her heels, sits, stays, recalls, etc. were amazing. Anyway, I spent a few days with her trainer getting a crash course in the methods used, and he basically starts motivationally with markers, and once the dog knows a command, will move to a correction phase with a prong collar, and then lastly a proofing phase with distractions and corrections, with the intent of producing responses from the dog that are immediate and consistent.
> 
> ....


Ok, I know where you're at with this.

I've had Saydee since she was 8 weeks old. I've imprinted very strongly on her, and her training up until this point has been all positive. No strong corrections. When she started obsessing on the ground scents, I did start using a prong collar on walks and when doing certain obedience. I don't personally view this as negative or compulsory training per se because so long as she holds her head where she's supposed to, or remains where I've told her to, she's fine. If she put her head down, the pinch collar corrected her instantly. For certain drills where she must sit next to me while other handlers walk their dogs around us, again the prong collar is passive so long as she sits there. If she moves to interact with the other dog, she gets a correction. Using the prong collar properly in these applications has been huge in her staying focused on certain tasks because she started to learn that sniffing the ground when she's not supposed to has consequences. With the prong collar though, I try to let the collar do all the work, and not the other way around if possible. If she does something wrong, she activates the pinch and self corrects. I rarely pull the leash to activate the collar on her. However, I've done it every once in a while when I knew she was disobeying me.

With that being said, at this point because of the amount of training she has been receiving, she knows these commands or tasks we trying to undertake (unless of course it's something brand new, or chaining old things together for the very first time). At her age and maturity level, I have been starting to correct her more sternly. If she allows herself to be distracted by something, I first give a verbal warning, and restart the exercise. If she continues to do it, then I physically hold her, eye to eye, and we have a little chat. Then we restart the exercise. That generally does the trick. Now of course, as soon as I correct her, I switch right back to the super happy, enthusiastic person she knows and loves. If for some reason that doesn't work, she gets taken straight back to her kennel and doesn't get to partake in the jackpot reward she's accustomed to. During group trainings, under these circumstances, she also gets to see the other dogs having their turn at bat and getting to play. This in and of itself is a good motivator.

With corrections, I'm always careful to not confuse Saydee not understanding what's being asked of her vs. actually blowing me off. Also, I carefully watch her reaction to make sure it's not over the top strong and she wants to pull away from me. It stays balanced. It's really more about letting her know I'm not happy with her not listening, and denying her access to something she really wants: the paycheck, jackpot reward.

Poodles can be sensitive. They are not hard like GSD's can be. Therefore, I'm always watching, judging the dose of discipline being dispensed. Also, recognizing if I'm fighting a losing battle at the time. I'd rather just shut down the exercise if it's not going where I want it to, and start over some time later, as opposed to the dog doing it wrong and getting corrected over and over again; that's a losing battle and in the long run does more harm than good.

Now with our other two standards, they are pets. Nash was giving me fits about recall. I was at my wits end, and a guy who was watching me work with them asked if I would consider using an e-collar. He explained how they used them on his hunting dogs. Well, I researched it and was convinced it was worth trying. I did some foundation work first with him, and determine what settings got his attention without stressing him or putting him into a panic. Corrections are about surprise, not pain. Once I found the right settings to fit the level of distraction present, I started to use them with commands like the recall. The results were amazing. When Nash did not comply with the command, he received the correction instantly which is the only effective way to correct. Also, it was like the hand of God that corrected him, and not me. Thus, his trust in me was not diminished. In no time, his recall was awesome. Lexi received some e-collar training too. She is a much more compliant dog, and didn't require the collar but for a month or two. Nash took longer while I proofed him. Today, they both have solid recalls. They walk off lead with me most everywhere I go in the neighborhood. The other day, I allowed them to run around one of our neighborhood ponds. When it was time to go, they were about 250-300 feet away. I whistled once, signaled with my hand, and called them. They came immediately and at full speed. Both of these dogs are low drive, but they do love to run.

As for Saydee, I see an e-collar in her future as part of her training. She has a very strong prey drive, and for search and rescue, it's likely that she may get distracted by critters and wind up chasing after one of them instead of finding the missing person. An e-collar will be the best way to shut that down.

Okay, now I'm being long winded. I hope this all made sense. More importantly, did it at least answer your questions? After writing so much, I can't remember what the question was, LOL.

Greg


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## lwm1984 (Apr 15, 2012)

Thanks! Wow, that was totally the most helpful response possible. The sensitivity of poodles is what I was worried about with the corrections, which is why I didn't really want to apply my GSD's training methods to my poodle until getting some more feedback. Like you mentioned, GSD's can be pretty hard. My GSD was an overall sweet girl, so when she went into protection mode, with the barking, lunging on her harness, and sleeve biting, it was a pretty shocking difference. That one was super-duper drivey. 

I'm also a bit weary of even thinking about corrections before I know with 100% certainty that my dog knows what I want; I don't want to correct a behavior that she didn't know she was supposed to do, and then make her nervous. The only corrections I've given thus far are when we are outside and she's being super stubborn and pulling hard to sniff something interesting, and then I'll just look her in the eyes and "have a chat" like you do. My spoo is maybe 20 pounds lighter than my shepherd was, but her ability to pull seems greater. You wouldn't think that something that sleeps this much would be this strong, lol.

A trainer that I know asked me if I'd ever consider an e-collar. I've met a lot of poodle people who are really against them as being cruel, so I asked if I could try it (on me, not my spoo). It's definitely not what I would describe as painful, just annoying. I did turn it up all the way, which produced a really weird sensation, but still not what I'd call painful. I never really considered using one even after trying it, but it's good to hear that you've gotten some good results. I might revisit that deliberation.

Also, thanks for the toy recommendations, I'm definitely going to pick those up!


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## sarpoodle (Dec 26, 2011)

lwm1984 said:


> Thanks! Wow, that was totally the most helpful response possible. The sensitivity of poodles is what I was worried about with the corrections, which is why I didn't really want to apply my GSD's training methods to my poodle until getting some more feedback. Like you mentioned, GSD's can be pretty hard. My GSD was an overall sweet girl, so when she went into protection mode, with the barking, lunging on her harness, and sleeve biting, it was a pretty shocking difference. That one was super-duper drivey.
> 
> I'm also a bit weary of even thinking about corrections before I know with 100% certainty that my dog knows what I want; I don't want to correct a behavior that she didn't know she was supposed to do, and then make her nervous. The only corrections I've given thus far are when we are outside and she's being super stubborn and pulling hard to sniff something interesting, and then I'll just look her in the eyes and "have a chat" like you do. My spoo is maybe 20 pounds lighter than my shepherd was, but her ability to pull seems greater. You wouldn't think that something that sleeps this much would be this strong, lol.


You see, I'm inclined to believe there's more to this dog than you may be aware of. You've had her a month? She's starting to approach the tail end of her adolescence. Perhaps she's still figuring you out too. If she was totally devoid of, or possessed extremely low drive, I wouldn't expect her to pull so hard on the ground, unless she's displacing. Perhaps it's worth erring on the side of caution for a bit longer just to see if something shakes loose while you probe around to discover more hot buttons. You may be able to coax something out of her that you weren't expecting, and all of a sudden you have that leverage. It can take awhile for new behaviors to take root. I agree with you about keeping an eye on how sensitive she is, and use that as a governor to moderate any corrections you do administer.



lwm1984 said:


> A trainer that I know asked me if I'd ever consider an e-collar. I've met a lot of poodle people who are really against them as being cruel, so I asked if I could try it (on me, not my spoo). It's definitely not what I would describe as painful, just annoying. I did turn it up all the way, which produced a really weird sensation, but still not what I'd call painful. I never really considered using one even after trying it, but it's good to hear that you've gotten some good results. I might revisit that deliberation.


I was in the exact same moral conundrum when I first started to look at e-collars. The simple truth is, it's a tool. I can be just as cruel to my dog with a flat collar if I want to abuse it. The one thing that an e-collar can do that no other tool can is it gives you standoff capability to correct a wrong behavior. First, that gives you the optimum chance to correct because it comes at the instance the infraction occurs. In the dog's mind, there is no mistaking what is being corrected. There is no confusion. The more time you allow to enter into the picture between the time of the infraction and the correction, the less effective it becomes. In fact, if too much time slips in, it can have the opposite effect and actually breaks down trust. Two, it helps you to relax because you won't have that anxiety about how to correct a dog for something like a failed recall when the dog is far away from you. You stay relaxed, the dog knows you're relaxed and he doesn't pick up on any negative body language.

As I said before, the key to corrections is understanding that it's about surprise and not pain. If the e-collar is truly hurting the dog, it's being used improperly. 

This is how I use the e-collar. First, I spent time conditioning the dogs. In Nash's case, my big problem was recall. I spent several weeks acclimating him to the collar. I use a Dogtra collar that allows me to adjust the settings from 1 to 128, so it is very fine grained. It has a vibrate mode that feels like a strong pager. It has a shock setting with two modes: nick and continuous. The nick mode is single shot. You press it, and it delivers the stimulation for 1/100th of a second even if you hold down the button. The continuous mode delivers the stimulation without stopping, but still has an upper limit (I think it's something like 5 seconds), and then shuts off. During the conditioning phase, I started at a low setting. I let Nash wander around away from me. I started to tap the button in the nick mode, and turned up the sensitivity until it got his attention. I kept nicking him until he returned to me, then I stopped. I didn't use any commands. After several sessions, he learned that when he got that strange sensation on his neck, it stopped when he came to me. He was never under any stress or panic. Once the conditioning phase was complete, I moved to applying it to the recall command. I placed him at a distance, and put him in a sit stay. I called him, and started nicking/tapping him until he committed to the command (i.e, he started coming straight to me). Once he committed, I stopped tapping, and let him come all the way to me. Then I marked it, treated him, and released him. We repeated this until he got it. This taught him that committing to the command makes the stimulation stop. Then we moved to more distracting environments, and repeated the whole process. Under distraction, the setting needed to be increased slowly until the stimulation matched the distractions. I repeated this process until we were working on our routine walks. During this time, I developed a sense of what range of settings were required. This included strong distractions, such as being reactive to other dogs and wanting to charge (a consequence of a bad dog park experience; the last time I ever set foot in one of those places). This is e-collar 101. By this time, Nash learned to obey at a distance. I was able to apply other remote commands equally as well. Each new application he picked up faster and faster as a result. At no time, did I ever hurt him with the collar. Today he can range super far from me should I allow it. It didn't break his spirit, and he's still the same fun loving dog he's always been.

Once somebody understands how to properly use an e-collar, the preconceived notions about it disappear.

Hope that helps.

Greg


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## lwm1984 (Apr 15, 2012)

That was a great intro to e-collars. There's definitely a lot of misinformation about them.



sarpoodle said:


> You see, I'm inclined to believe there's more to this dog than you may be aware of. You've had her a month? She's starting to approach the tail end of her adolescence. Perhaps she's still figuring you out too. If she was totally devoid of, or possessed extremely low drive, I wouldn't expect her to pull so hard on the ground, unless she's displacing. Perhaps it's worth erring on the side of caution for a bit longer just to see if something shakes loose while you probe around to discover more hot buttons.


I bet you're right about that. She's made such a fast transition that I sometimes think that she's fine now, but new behaviors pop up that surprise me. If she stayed as she is right now I'd be perfectly happy, but given her history, and some things she's shown me, I wouldn't be surprised if her drive becomes more pronounced over the next few months.

She went from rural Virginia, with no neighbors for miles, to my home which is more in the city. Losing her mommy (i.e. her breeder) must have been a big shock, as well as all the other spoos that she played with. She also never had to go to the bathroom on a leash before, nor did she know what stairs were. Just a few examples, and needless to say she wasn't exposed to all the sounds of a city, or the cars, people, etc. That said, she handled everything really well, and isn't really phased by anything. I'm inclined to think that at her previous home her drives weren't really engaged that much.

Some interesting behaviors: 

1) The first week at my home I had her on a flexi lead so she'd be more comfortable transitioning to going potty on a shorter lead. I didn't notice an injured sparrow in the grass, and as the bird flew away, she pounced on the thing and squashed it. She was really into it.

2) After two weeks, we were at the park, and she nearly dislocated my shoulder (I'm exaggerating) when she went after a squirrel. Now, she likes to really go after squirrels, ducks, birds, etc.

3) About the pulling - she pulls HARD when she smells a male dog's urine. Her nose is on the ground a lot sniffing away; I've been unsure of whether to correct this, as she seems to be exploring her new environment.

4) When she met my neighbors hyper intense rottie mix (who is a recent rescuse), I expected her to be timid and shy and maybe hide behind me. Instead, they just started to roughhouse and play pretty vigorously, and my spoo was definitely the girl in control of that situation. She was sooo happy for the entire day after that.

5) I switched her from kibble to raw when I got her, and her enthusiasm for food is really picking up. I always feed her in her crate, and after I say, "go to your house," she BOLTS in there like she hasn't been fed in days.

Maybe as she matures and also becomes fully acclimated she'll be a little more driven. Perhaps her toy drive and play drive aren't really all that pronounced since she's never really had them turned on before.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I know many people have negative views on prong collars, but this is what I use for Leroy's obedience training. We are working on heel and not pulling on the leash. First couple of exercises were using a long line and a choke collar, and shortening the line little by little. I saw a nice improvement just after the choke collar exercises. Before doing any exercise, I make sure Leroy is crated for at least an hour. I want to make anything before training as boring as possible, so that the training itself is the funnest thing. After training, which only lasts about 20 minutes, I crate him again to let him settle and think about what he learned.

The prong collar is a useful tool if used correctly. I don't yank Leroy around on the leash like a crazy person. I walk leisurely and he makes the corrections himself. I've been having a big problem with him lunging at neighborhood cats. I decided to do some training tonight and lo and behold, his favorite neighborhood cat came right to the door. I put him in a sit stay before leaving the door, and then released him to exit. Of course he lunged right at the cat. At this point I did do a leash correction with the prong collar. It was very quick and he got the message. I did my exercises around the front yard, with the cat sitting on the sidewalk, and my sister waving a bag of treats as a distraction. The neighbor across the street also let their dog loose who was barking at us, so another distraction. Leroy did REALLY well with all of this craziness going on. No pulling on the leash, and we even walked back and forth less than a foot away from the cat and he did not lunge. We even walked behind the cat as we walked up to the door and Leroy did not get excited or increase his speed. The exercise is walking short distances and when I feel he is going ahead of me or pulling, I turn the other way and make him follow my lead. Even before the prong collar exercises, he was walking on the leash really well without pulling. The prong collar is for training only. 

I see a lot of people using prong collars while their dog is STILL pulling on the leash!! This looks so dangerous. I was told by my trainer to do the heel + prong collar exercises for a full week with NO full walks. Only time he goes out is to do the training exercises. I think Leroy is getting better with his favorite cat. When the cat visits our backyard, instead of letting Leroy go nuts over the cat (he runs around like a maniac and gets super excited), I put him in a sit stay and then I tell him to go inside. I feel like getting a solid foundation on walking properly on the leash will help dispel his other bad habits.

With the recall, will it help if you walked away from your dog while calling her? Like facing to the side as you run away from your dog, while saying "come come come!" to get the action going.


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## sarpoodle (Dec 26, 2011)

lwm1984 said:


> Some interesting behaviors:
> 
> 1) The first week at my home I had her on a flexi lead so she'd be more comfortable transitioning to going potty on a shorter lead. I didn't notice an injured sparrow in the grass, and as the bird flew away, she pounced on the thing and squashed it. She was really into it.
> 
> ...


This is classic prey drive. You can definitely build on that. Here is a video I took a couple of months ago doing drive training with Saydee. One of her favorite toys is the Chuck It Squirrel. I tied hers to the end of a horse whip so I could move it all around in different, random directions. It flips the switch on the prey drive, and then once she engages the toy, we switch to pure play drive. Then go back and forth. We did this sort of thing for months to get her focus up. For her SAR training, I make her bark indicate at me when she gives up the toy. In order to get it back, she has to bark. This will be her indication to me on search and rescue missions to tell me she found somebody.

Her drive game is much different today, but this is where it started. Now I randomize what we do, but we play a lot of the two way game using those tugs I listed previously. I throw one, and she brings it to me, drops it on command, and I throw the next one out in the opposite direction for her to get. It's the classic GSD game. Once the dog gets the hang of it, they run like stink. It's great exercise with all of those wind sprints. I taught Saydee the two way game using two of those Chuck It Squirrels. It really tapped into her prey drive for birds, which she loves.








lwm1984 said:


> 4) When she met my neighbors hyper intense rottie mix (who is a recent rescuse), I expected her to be timid and shy and maybe hide behind me. Instead, they just started to roughhouse and play pretty vigorously, and my spoo was definitely the girl in control of that situation. She was sooo happy for the entire day after that.
> 
> 5) I switched her from kibble to raw when I got her, and her enthusiasm for food is really picking up. I always feed her in her crate, and after I say, "go to your house," she BOLTS in there like she hasn't been fed in days.


Roughhousing is typical poodle play, especially if it's mixed in with trying to get the other dog to chase her.

You're definitely doing all the right things. Let her marinate for a while. I'm a firm believer now that she is going to blossom for you a bit more once she gets fully adjusted and you continue to show her all the love and attention you're obviously providing.

Greg


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## sarpoodle (Dec 26, 2011)

tokipoke said:


> I know many people have negative views on prong collars, but this is what I use for Leroy's obedience training. We are working on heel and not pulling on the leash. First couple of exercises were using a long line and a choke collar, and shortening the line little by little. I saw a nice improvement just after the choke collar exercises. Before doing any exercise, I make sure Leroy is crated for at least an hour. I want to make anything before training as boring as possible, so that the training itself is the funnest thing. After training, which only lasts about 20 minutes, I crate him again to let him settle and think about what he learned.


I follow a similar principle. It is highly effective. In fact today, we are working on something important, so she's on lock down until later this afternoon. Just took a decent walk this morning to shake out the cobwebs. By the time she comes out to work this afternoon, she'll be fired up.



tokipoke said:


> I see a lot of people using prong collars while their dog is STILL pulling on the leash!! This looks so dangerous. I was told by my trainer to do the heel + prong collar exercises for a full week with NO full walks. Only time he goes out is to do the training exercises. I think Leroy is getting better with his favorite cat. When the cat visits our backyard, instead of letting Leroy go nuts over the cat (he runs around like a maniac and gets super excited), I put him in a sit stay and then I tell him to go inside. I feel like getting a solid foundation on walking properly on the leash will help dispel his other bad habits.


If a dog can pull that hard with a prong collar, one of two things is going on. One, it's not fitted properly and/or it's not in the right position. A prong collar needs to be right behind the ears, and under the jaw. It should not slide back down to the base of the neck. Two, the diameter of the prongs is equally as important. The wider the prong, the less effective it becomes. Bigger is not better. I am using a 2.5mm prong on Saydee. When it goes on, it's instant respect for the tool. The only time it starts to lose effectiveness now is when the hair grows too thick and buffers the prongs against her skin. Regardless it is still effective because of the pinching effect. Unlike a choke collar, it doesn't cut off air. Because of the design, it applies uniform pressure all the way around the neck where it makes contact.

Great insights and suggestions you've provided.

Greg


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## lwm1984 (Apr 15, 2012)

Brief update. We trained recall in my basement for a while, and one day she just decided she was going to start running at me full speed if there's enough room. We recently moved to the park, and she's gotten to the point where she's like a freight train running right at me. I didn't really do anything specific, she just went from slow poke to the Flash. Go figure. 

She's not quite 100% yet. Sometimes if I'm at like 50 yards or so, she'll just remain in a sit/stay like she can't hear me. I'm not sure if she really can't hear me, or just isn't coming. She's always looking right at me and not distracted.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

I was away and missed the beginning of this thread but had something to add.

When a dog comes in the recall slowly, there's probably some issues going on.

The first thing I would do is teach the dog to push into my space and/or jump on me. 

The reason for this is when a dog has been corrected for touching people, it will slow down to avoid getting punished. You'll also see this when people lean over and push rewards into their dogs faces instead of having the reward come next to their body - with the dog coming close to the owner to get the reward. I would rather have my dog crash into me on the recall than come in slowly!

The next thing to do is to teach the dog a finish - whatever you want it to be. I've taught everything from a competition finish to having the dog jump up into my arms. What the finish is doesn't matter. Once your dog is confident in the finish, you'll take away stress and build speed on the recall.

With those 2 things going on, try everything that's been discussed in the thread. Minus the ecollar. I don't have anything against ecollars. I have one and use it occassionally. But if we're talking about building speed and building drive, the ecollar won't help. OK, it can if you're using escape training, but that's just not nice to do!

I hope this helps with recall training.


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