# Some Show grooming Help



## KamelotMom (Mar 28, 2009)

I think some of your neck hair problem is the collar. I had the same problem with Guenna. It was like all of a sudden she had this really short area around her neck. I got a silk collar and that helped greatly. Also, are you wrapping his hair? My breeder told me that Guenna needed at least 12" of hair on top of her head to really do anything. The Color Coordinated Canine has a great selection of bands & wraps geared toward poodles. Also, when you walk him... If anybody asks "can I pet your puppy" let them. The more strange people touch him the more he will become desensitized to being handled and he will stand still better when the judge approaches.

I've learned so much raising Guenna. The first time she walked into the ring at 10mo & the judge examined her she didn't move a paw or flinch a muscle. I was really really proud of her. She acted like this was normal, every day life and people were always giving her attention.

Enzo is a really beautiful red. I wish you lots of luck with him.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

KamelotMom said:


> I think some of your neck hair problem is the collar. I had the same problem with Guenna. It was like all of a sudden she had this really short area around her neck. I got a silk collar and that helped greatly. Also, are you wrapping his hair?


Enzo does not wear a collar so I know it was from the advantage. He only wears collars when we walk him. As for wrapping ? please explain that. 

We try asking people on other forms for grooming help but no luck from the breeders. I went on a grooming forum and waiting for a few people to reply and help us out. 

Yes we let people Pet Enzo all the time we have been stepping our game up and have been training him with a clipper. He is getting so good at standing still we took him to the dog park and made him stack and he did not move at all.


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## spoofan (Dec 11, 2008)

This might be of help,but I think Enzo's hair might not be long enough yet.
http://arpeggiopoodles.tripod.com/poodleshowcoatbanding.html


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## spoofan (Dec 11, 2008)

This also has some good in depth advice.
http://onoshipoodles.com/showgrooming.cfm


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

The wrapping is so far what has kept me from wanting to maintain a show coat. 

There was a bit of hope for me though at the last show I was at a handler I see all the time was showing adog in a shorter trim, with a scissored topknot. I was fascinated of course and talked to her about it.


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## Blue Fox (Oct 22, 2008)

If you don't have it get the Shirlee Kalstone Poodle book, it is great, has heaps of info on keeping a show coat including wrapping, banding, washing routines etc ... and how to clip the puppy, continental and english saddle for show.

I am no expert but from what I have read I think you could take some more off his chest and from the top of his rear legs. Most photos I have seen of a puppy clip they are quite angular, you are aiming to make the pup look square and the extra on both ends makes him look longer than he really is. Others would know more about the US show scene and what wins over there but I have put a link below to T's sister here in Oz who is doing very well. 

http://www.blue-standardpoodles.com/comfort.htm

As you can see she has very definate shape to the clip, she is only 9 months old so still being shown in puppy clip. I think she looks awesome.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Blue Fox said:


> If you don't have it get the Shirlee Kalstone Poodle book, it is great, has heaps of info on keeping a show coat including wrapping, banding, washing routines etc ... and how to clip the puppy, continental and english saddle for show.
> 
> I am no expert but from what I have read I think you could take some more off his chest and from the top of his rear legs. Most photos I have seen of a puppy clip they are quite angular, you are aiming to make the pup look square and the extra on both ends makes him look longer than he really is. Others would know more about the US show scene and what wins over there but I have put a link below to T's sister here in Oz who is doing very well.
> 
> ...



Yeah She is not finished with Enzo , in the USA we don't like our puppies like that pup in the link.

I think I will buy a grooming DVD later for show clips. I seen the book you mentioned and i been planning to buy that also.


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## katsdogworld (Jan 24, 2009)

While I'm far from an expert, I have been studying and learning show grooming. 
I would recommend that you and your sister, or whoever is grooming, take some time to look at winning photos of standard puppies to study the desired look.
From your photo, I would recommend more shaping above the feet, especially in front. I was told not to touch the hind legs, as you really want that hair to grow full. 
Also, you want to create a sort of right angle on the hip. Hard to explain but if you research some show pics you will see what I'm talking about. I see the shape of the body as sort of a bullhorn with a flat tip, if that makes any sense. Remember you are trying to create a square overall. Show grooming is a science, and it will most certainly make the difference. Are you planning on showing UKC or AKC or another organization? That will make a big difference as well. Best of luck!!!


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## spoofan (Dec 11, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> Yeah She is not finished with Enzo , in the USA we don't like our puppies like that pup in the link.
> 
> I think I will buy a grooming DVD later for show clips. I seen the book you mentioned and i been planning to buy that also.


That pup in the link is absolutely gorgeous...love that clip.
What is it that makes the puppy undesirable in the USA?


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

That isn't the right shape for USA, mostly there seems to be a lot more off of the hind end and thee shouldn't be a "wasitline" in front of the ribcage. I think that is what Roxy was seeing, it's what I see anyway. I don't see poodle puppies groomed like there here in the states at shows.

I do like that clip though, very pretty. Maybe I try that for Jazz.... ?? She is already pretty close to that anyway with the body shape, and has a crest.. She needs ears and more hair on the topline... Something to think about.. Better, maybe I'll put Saleen in that trim. DANG!! Wish I hadn't just done a lamb on her!

Hey Roxy... check out petedge, I noticed reccently that they started carring a DVD series and one of them is show grooming for the poodle. Not cheap, but hey it's not everyday info either I suppose. I can't think if the name of the groomer who is doing them off the top of my head. I think it also goes over wrapping and such. I was going to buy it because I had Jazz in an english saddle and wanted to refine it and make it look better.. no need now lol


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## spoofan (Dec 11, 2008)

Roxy25...did your sister buy Enzo intending to show him?
Did the breeder feel,that he is a show potential?
If not bought with showing in mind,have you guys had Enzo evaluated by someone to see if he is a show potential?
I don't know much about showing at all,but am just curious about the whole thing...what they look for in a puppy etc....besides the obvious...correct position of the tail,tight feet and all that.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

katsdogworld said:


> While I'm far from an expert, I have been studying and learning show grooming.
> I would recommend that you and your sister, or whoever is grooming, take some time to look at winning photos of standard puppies to study the desired look.
> From your photo, I would recommend more shaping above the feet, especially in front. I was told not to touch the hind legs, as you really want that hair to grow full.
> Also, you want to create a sort of right angle on the hip. Hard to explain but if you research some show pics you will see what I'm talking about. I see the shape of the body as sort of a bullhorn with a flat tip, if that makes any sense. Remember you are trying to create a square overall. Show grooming is a science, and it will most certainly make the difference. Are you planning on showing UKC or AKC or another organization? That will make a big difference as well. Best of luck!!!


Yes we have been looking at all kinds of pictures , I just wanted advice on his neck area. 

My sister is no where near finished as stated in first post this is why his front is still fuzzy and not even. I am glad you said the hind legs should not be cut because I was arguing with my sister about that. I told her she messed up on his back end , but she said it was fine. I told her she cut too much hair off.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

WonderPup said:


> That isn't the right shape for USA, mostly there seems to be a lot more off of the hind end and thee shouldn't be a "wasitline" in front of the ribcage. I think that is what Roxy was seeing, it's what I see anyway. I don't see poodle puppies groomed like there here in the states at shows.
> 
> I do like that clip though, very pretty. Maybe I try that for Jazz.... ?? She is already pretty close to that anyway with the body shape, and has a crest.. She needs ears and more hair on the topline... Something to think about.. Better, maybe I'll put Saleen in that trim. DANG!! Wish I hadn't just done a lamb on her!
> 
> Hey Roxy... check out petedge, I noticed reccently that they started carring a DVD series and one of them is show grooming for the poodle. Not cheap, but hey it's not everyday info either I suppose. I can't think if the name of the groomer who is doing them off the top of my head. I think it also goes over wrapping and such. I was going to buy it because I had Jazz in an english saddle and wanted to refine it and make it look better.. no need now lol


Thanks for explaining the Euro / Aussie puppy clips lol 

I will check out the video , the videos I found where these 

http://poodlegroomingvideo.com/
and this one 


http://www.cherrybrook.com/index.cf...ming_Groomerworks_DVD_with_Christina_Pawlosky

and this one 

http://www.groomersmall.com/images/Poodle-DVD-Info.jpg

I am not sure which to get because they are all expensive lol


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

spoofan said:


> Roxy25...did your sister buy Enzo intending to show him?
> Did the breeder feel,that he is a show potential?
> If not bought with showing in mind,have you guys had Enzo evaluated by someone to see if he is a show potential?
> I don't know much about showing at all,but am just curious about the whole thing...what they look for in a puppy etc....besides the obvious...correct position of the tail,tight feet and all that.


My sister bought him to show, but the breeder is not a show person. We have not had anyone look at him because there is really no body local. I had Two breeders see pictures of him and video both did not say he was a waste to show. My sister even told one that if he does not look good we will replace him. I already know he won't win in AKC because he is red so we will be doing both AKC and UKC.

Here is a link Blue fox posted if you want to see the standard in video form 
http://www.dog.com/dog-breeds/poodle/


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Hey guys! I bought a new phone right before my son getting ill so here I am. 
I think you should show enzo even if his hair on his neck isn't perfect. He's a puppy growing coat so he will not be penalized like they would if he was a adult dog. Also you need to get him out rather then wait even if you have concerns about his conformation or what ever. He doesn't need to be evaluated before he goes out. Every dog has something that's not perfect or could be better. He is a growing puppy ans they go through puppy stages etc during this time.what he will eventually turn out to will be seen later. You for sure don't have a pile so let him get the experience just as you guys will and have a good time. I still say start ukc and when his coat grows in more and the clip is perfected then go akc. Its all about showing enzo that this is fun and learning for us newbies. 

Sure you can have him evaluated but everyone has a different oponion. You know what the standard is and you know how your dog looks like. I think having dogs evaluated can often be a waste of time personally. See what the judges think and what your competition looks like. You"ll learn a lot just doing that.


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## creativeparti (Mar 9, 2009)

i did this for u hope it helps 



after i made the bum tighter and took the chest down a bit


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

That was a good idea npm


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

OMG thank you newpoodlemum ! 

That looks way better on Enzo , I showed my sister and she will fix his back end to look like that and his under belly. I will post the final results.

Thanks Jenn we wont mess with his neck either. 

also thank you katsdogworld for chatting with me about coat care , I will be messaging you here an there


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## creativeparti (Mar 9, 2009)

no prob like to help he could of looked better but im just workin on learning how to work the program


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## katsdogworld (Jan 24, 2009)

Here's a pic of Monroe at his last show. He was freshly groomed by the show groomer I've been learning from...It was windy though, but I think it show's the outline. However, I did overcut his tuckup and rear end a few months prior, and he's still growing back from that.
I've also been thinking about Enzo's neck hair loss, I know you said you thought it was Frontline, but I keep thinking it's the collar, even if it's only used for walks, it can damage hair. I've been looking and looking for one of those protective collars for poodles...they're made of satin and are reallly wide, with the choke chain attached to the outside. 
He's beautiful by the way. Perhaps this has been previously mentioned, but, where did your sister get him?


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## KamelotMom (Mar 28, 2009)

Kats - I got Guenna's silk collar from this gal - http://www.atjanesbooth.com/shop/ I'd suggest calling and speaking to her, if feasable. She carries snoods, pee boots and bitches britches also.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

katsdogworld said:


> I've also been thinking about Enzo's neck hair loss, I know you said you thought it was Frontline, but I keep thinking it's the collar, even if it's only used for walks, it can damage hair.


well I still believe the frontline or advantage did the damage because we where not walking him at the age when we put frontline on him. We where waiting for his next set of shots and his hair started to come out. Then we started to walk him. The collar probably made it worst and probably the reason for slow growth etc..

When I had my GSD I put frontline on her and her hair came out too. Do a google search and you will find articles of frontline making dogs hair come out.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

KamelotMom said:


> Kats - I got Guenna's silk collar from this gal - http://www.atjanesbooth.com/shop/ I'd suggest calling and speaking to her, if feasable. She carries snoods, pee boots and bitches britches also.


How much are they ? I emailed and got no reply


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Can't offer any advice, but he is a gorgeous dog!


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## KamelotMom (Mar 28, 2009)

Roxy - I talked to Jane @ a Majic Reflection (Silk Collars are $24 btw). She said to call her @ 352.748.2022. She's getting ready to go out of town for a week so, if you can, call her today. She'll want to discuss color & size to make sure you get what you need. Let me know if you need any more info.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_KamelotMom - I went to the link: http://www.atjanesbooth.com/shop/ to look at her products. I am seriously thinking of showing Billy in puppy class. I don't know much about the products and was wondering if one is better than the other or are they all the same in the end? Who should I speak to about what products are best for his type of coat? He has a tight curl but is really soft when he is completely groomed out after a bath. :question:_


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## katsdogworld (Jan 24, 2009)

Thanks for the reference KamelotMom, I went to the site, but didn't come up with the collars on the search...I've been emailing Olivia at <http:///www.SeaCrestPoodles.com> She's got beautiful silk protective collars for $35 including shipping...It would be nice if atjanesbooth had some pics so I could see


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## KamelotMom (Mar 28, 2009)

Spoospirit - I'd call Jane directly & ask her about the products. She's been in poodles for many many years. I'm sure there isn't a problem that you could come up with that she either hasn't experienced herself or been exposed to in one way or another. When I've seen her at shows she's given me advise that's been invaluable.

Katsdogworld - I know the Magic Reflection site is pretty bare. I know she has these products because I've seen them at her booth. If there is something in particular that you are looking for I'd call & ask her. If she doesn't have it I'm sure she can tell you who does. Also, I've found her prices are not too unreasonable. I don't know if she has any pics but I took one of the one I bought from her last year to give you an idea of what she has.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_I like the idea of a collar that is non-destructive to the coat and very wide like that. I'll have to look into that._


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## poodleit (Dec 10, 2008)

Enzo is gorgeous red  Good luck in the shows.
IMHO it would be great if you can have him groomed, at least once, by a pro show poodle handler/groomer. And then maintain his coat outline.
Protective collar would help a lot, and he'll grow his neck hair pretty fast.
I just started a new line of protective collars (please don't get affended by my self advertizing.) they are made from high quality satins, soft but sturdy, have high quality show choke collar inside.
http://www.poodleit.com


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

poodleit said:


> Enzo is gorgeous red  Good luck in the shows.
> IMHO it would be great if you can have him groomed, at least once, by a pro show poodle handler/groomer. And then maintain his coat outline.
> Protective collar would help a lot, and he'll grow his neck hair pretty fast.
> I just started a new line of protective collars (please don't get affended by my self advertizing.) they are made from high quality satins, soft but sturdy, have high quality show choke collar inside.
> http://www.poodleit.com


I seen the collars but i don't get how you walk a dog with them do they have an attachment ? can I see pictures of that


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## poodleit (Dec 10, 2008)

the collar has choke collar run through the protective layer. You attach your leash to the ring on the choke. I will post pics soon.


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## poodleit (Dec 10, 2008)




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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

poodleit said:


>


OMG cool !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## highhorse (Sep 17, 2008)

I was told by my dog's breeder to get her ear hair wrapped as every time they put their head down to sniff, they run the risk of split ends. This made a tremendous difference to the length of her ear hair in a very short time. I would try to leave the banding of the top knot for as long as possible as you run the risk of splitting hair if the bands are too tight. A good picture of a winning show poodle really helps you get the right shape and also going to poodle shows and just watching. Another idea is to get a more experienced show groomer to set your pattern and so long as you trim little and often, you should be able to maintain it. It really is an art form. The book recommended by others on the forum is excellent.


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## hasta (Feb 25, 2009)

What an interesting topic. :smile: Nice work you have done there with your red little-mister-handsome.

It's nice to see how the puppy clips look like in the US -here in Europe they're completely different, as you propably know.

Okay, I'm not a groomer, and don't definitely know anything about your puppyclips, but I would do this:











I just very quickly removed some extra hair from his topline and rear and also from the front chest. For me the shorter back hair sloping to neck hair (no "lump" when they combine) makes the dogs neck look taller and more elegant, and when taking some more hair from the back of the rear legs, rear angulation looks much more stronger. 
I think that puppy's clip can be quite "light" as long as the neck hair has grown enough to make the dogs whole picture balanced. But this is just my opinion.

This is frustrating, 'cause I can't explain the same things in english that I would like to tell in finnish. :biggrin1:


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

hasta said:


> What an interesting topic. :smile: Nice work you have done there with your red little-mister-handsome.
> 
> It's nice to see how the puppy clips look like in the US -here in Europe they're completely different, as you propably know.
> 
> ...


Yes Hasta ! This is what I meant we had to fix him more we did cut that lump off and he looks so nice my sister finished his front too. she also made the V shape where the tail is . Tomorrow she is waking up to groom him for the show I will post pics later tomorrow evening


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## Sivaro (Sep 19, 2008)

WonderPup said:


> That isn't the right shape for USA, mostly there seems to be a lot more off of the hind end and thee shouldn't be a "wasitline" in front of the ribcage. I think that is what Roxy was seeing, it's what I see anyway. I don't see poodle puppies groomed like there here in the states at shows.
> 
> I do like that clip though, very pretty. Maybe I try that for Jazz.... ?? She is already pretty close to that anyway with the body shape, and has a crest.. She needs ears and more hair on the topline... Something to think about.. Better, maybe I'll put Saleen in that trim. DANG!! Wish I hadn't just done a lamb on her!
> 
> Hey Roxy... check out petedge, I noticed reccently that they started carring a DVD series and one of them is show grooming for the poodle. Not cheap, but hey it's not everyday info either I suppose. I can't think if the name of the groomer who is doing them off the top of my head. I think it also goes over wrapping and such. I was going to buy it because I had Jazz in an english saddle and wanted to refine it and make it look better.. no need now lol


Jacqi usually doesnt cut in that far, surprised to see she has on this link. Must be her new style of cut for her standards. Her adult clip is to die for.


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## Sivaro (Sep 19, 2008)

katsdogworld said:


> Here's a pic of Monroe at his last show. He was freshly groomed by the show groomer I've been learning from...It was windy though, but I think it show's the outline. However, I did overcut his tuckup and rear end a few months prior, and he's still growing back from that.
> I've also been thinking about Enzo's neck hair loss, I know you said you thought it was Frontline, but I keep thinking it's the collar, even if it's only used for walks, it can damage hair. I've been looking and looking for one of those protective collars for poodles...they're made of satin and are reallly wide, with the choke chain attached to the outside.
> He's beautiful by the way. Perhaps this has been previously mentioned, but, where did your sister get him?


With your stack its better to put the standards on the ground. Try making him lift his head higher so its shows his nice neckline. Give the tail a bit of a pull and that will show off his angulation in the back and pop his chest out in front.

Neckhair often gets broken from dogs playing with eachother also. I dont believe the advantage does this as my dogs have never lost neck hair. Scratching and rubbing is often a problem too.


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## Sivaro (Sep 19, 2008)

spoospirit said:


> _I like the idea of a collar that is non-destructive to the coat and very wide like that. I'll have to look into that._


You can also use a fine choker chain.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Sivaro said:


> Neckhair often gets broken from dogs playing with eachother also. I dont believe the advantage does this as my dogs have never lost neck hair. Scratching and rubbing is often a problem too.


I have had a GSD that had hair come out from frontline and like I stated Enzo was not being walked at the time so I am positive it was the frontline. I have no other dogs to play with him and his skin is healthy he does not scratch or rub at all. My sister bathes him weekly we take care of his coat the best we can.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> I have had a GSD that had hair come out from frontline and like I stated Enzo was not being walked at the time so I am positive it was the frontline. I have no other dogs to play with him and his skin is healthy he does not scratch or rub at all. My sister bathes him weekly we take care of his coat the best we can.


Im sure it happens to some dogs but not all. I have to admit, tmy dogs where scratching the other day and I was affraid to get the frontline for Sting. Is hair is pretty long and I dont want to take my chances right now.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> Im sure it happens to some dogs but not all. I have to admit, tmy dogs where scratching the other day and I was affraid to get the frontline for Sting. Is hair is pretty long and I dont want to take my chances right now.


Yeah not every dog will get hair loss as side effect but it does happen.

I would be scared to put frontline one Sting also. Terry also told us not to point any more frontline or advantage on Enzo because he too had some hair loss on his dogs.


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## Sivaro (Sep 19, 2008)

roxy25 said:


> I have had a GSD that had hair come out from frontline and like I stated Enzo was not being walked at the time so I am positive it was the frontline. I have no other dogs to play with him and his skin is healthy he does not scratch or rub at all. My sister bathes him weekly we take care of his coat the best we can.


In that case, dont use frontline, try something different.

Edited to say, does the dog actually get fleas. I know alot of ppl that put it on just incase they do get them. Its not always neccessary.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Sivaro said:


> In that case, dont use frontline, try something different.
> 
> Edited to say, does the dog actually get fleas. I know alot of ppl that put it on just incase they do get them. Its not always neccessary.


yeah we might try something different or just put like one drop to patch test it. 

Well our pets really don't get fleas but since we live in apt . we have other people that don't bath or take care of their dogs so fleas are always in the apt building. 

We will probably end up putting the advantage on the cats to keep the fleas off Enzo. This usually works , when I had my GSD I would just put advantage on her and the cats stay flea free lol


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## Sivaro (Sep 19, 2008)

Inbetween shows also put some oils through his coat. This will encourage it to grow and also stops the ends breaking. You will find its great through coat change too, hardly any matting will occur.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Sivaro said:


> Inbetween shows also put some oils through his coat. This will encourage it to grow and also stops the ends breaking. You will find its great through coat change too, hardly any matting will occur.


Ok I have heard different things on putting a coat on oil. I have had people say that once you put oil on the dog and try to take the oil out you will have a matted mess ? They also stated that when you put dog in oil the dog will stop producing its natural oils and it will take a few months for them to start natural oil production. 

Is that TRUE ? I want to put oil on him but that info scared me away from doing it. my sister and I have Afro hair just like a poodles coat and I put oil in my hair all the time when I take it out it does not matt so this is why I find some of this info people have told us or ( read on groomer forum) confusing.

Do you think they have a disaster result with putting a dog in oil because they don't tend to the coat that much after oil has been put on its coat ?

sorry for so many questions Sivaro but thank you for all your input and help .


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## Sivaro (Sep 19, 2008)

I have been putting oils in my dogs coats forever and never have had this problem or I would suggest it. Its only for inbetween shows, say you dont have a show for three weeks you come home wash the spray out, then put oils in. Only the required amount, it will tell you on the bottle or you can buy a spray so when you brush your dog during the week you do this in a line and spray. It is for protecting the coat.

It should never matt the coat and if it does its been left in for far too long. I wont leave it in for over 2 weeks, but when they are going through coat change I wash it out weekly.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Sivaro said:


> I have been putting oils in my dogs coats forever and never have had this problem or I would suggest it. Its only for inbetween shows, say you dont have a show for three weeks you come home wash the spray out, then put oils in. Only the required amount, it will tell you on the bottle or you can buy a spray so when you brush your dog during the week you do this in a line and spray. It is for protecting the coat.
> 
> It should never matt the coat and if it does its been left in for far too long. I wont leave it in for over 2 weeks, but when they are going through coat change I wash it out weekly.


Awesome info thanks ! I guess I will tell my sister that oils will are ok  What type of oils do you put on the coat ?


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## Sivaro (Sep 19, 2008)

I use laserlites here in Australia. Not sure if you have that in the US


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Sivaro said:


> I use laserlites here in Australia. Not sure if you have that in the US


I Just googled that and it looks like they have a branch in USA cool !

Which one do you recommend the show oil or Maintenance Oil?


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## Sivaro (Sep 19, 2008)

I use both, the show one is for after shows, like I said when you know your dog hasnt got shows for weeks you put that in, or coat change. The maintainance one is for during the week, I spray that in if I have put the show one on


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Sivaro said:


> I use both, the show one is for after shows, like I said when you know your dog hasnt got shows for weeks you put that in, or coat change. The maintainance one is for during the week, I spray that in if I have put the show one on


thanks again for the info I know this should help Enzo's top knot grow more, he still has damaged hair from the snow.


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## Sivaro (Sep 19, 2008)

No problems. This is the good thing about forums, you can learn so much. Even the ones that have been in it forever like me always learn something new.


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