# scabby/scaly patch on back/hip



## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

hi all,
Just wondering if anyone has ideas on this skin thing we've been dealing with. I'm taking Dipper back to the vet next week, but you all can give me your thoughts while the vet is closed (so I can worry over the weekend lol!)
Our vet hasn't had much of an idea of what it might be, did mention SA, but also said poodles have skin problems and she wasn't sure what it was (great, right?). 
It started in late March as a scaly/flaky area. When I bathed him and got rid of the buildup it looked like pink/yellowish spots (ballpoint pen tip sized) that were slightly oozy. The vet gave us some mousse (this: douxo sebborheic mousse Douxo Seborrhea Mousse for Dogs & Cats, 6.8-oz bottle - Chewy.com)
but didn't get us the shampoo since it was apparently backordered (? I could've ordered it myself, I realize now...)
We haven't been using the mousse super consistently (because honestly, the vet didn't seem to convinced it was going to help AND she didn't bother finding me the corresponding shampoo...), but I've been trying to use it daily lately and it actually seems to be making the spots open up and scab over (I've no idea if this is good or bad)
Anyway, I've attached photos, the second one shows the affected area circled in red. It's not usually that noticable, but I had been spreading out his fur for the photo and I put some neosporin on the scabs yesterday so his fur was a little greasy right there. 
It doesn't seem to bug him too much, but it worries me. He's on Honest Kitchen beef (the one with oats) and natural instincts frozen raw beef (half and half). All his treats are beef, just trying to stick to one protein in case of allergies. He's had other red spots when he was younger (he's 16 months) but they went away without a problem. We're on Trifexis for fleas and Frontline for ticks (Frontline doesn't kill the fleas around here, apparently) but our vet's office said they're switching everyone to Nexgard soon so we won't be on two products. Any thoughts appreciated! He's in good health otherwise but I think his ears are generally itchy, so I try to clean them whenever we bathe him...
The nearest vet dermatologist is probably 5-6 hours away, so I am hoping it's something that can be resolved without lots of complicated tests and travel...but I'll do whatever's necessary.
Any recommendations on a gentle shampoo to use would also be great.
Thanks! Jen and Dipper


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

I don't have a lot of knowledge about this but couldn't the vet do a skin punch to check for SA so it can at least be ruled out?


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Sarcoptic mange?
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&..._mange&usg=AFQjCNHkM8J9dtVepa52EIGpZzp4ncXBjA

Eric


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

I'll ask about the skin punch next time, it would definitely be good to know for sure. I thought about mange, I will ask about that too (there's no hair loss so far, thankfully)! The breeder responded to my email really fast (she has been great when I have questions), she said she's only seen SA in one of her foster dogs and this doesn't look like the cases she's seen, but of course nothing has been diagnosed or ruled out yet. 
I'll defer to my vet's opinion (or find a new vet if ours isn't helpful!) but was just curious what other ideas were out there...thanks for the ideas, anyone else have any?


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

Hans had an incident with some similar scaly//flakey looking spots, but his never opened up into sores. He never seemed itchy either. It cleared up with a Ketaconazole (not sure I spelled that right) shampoo (Nizoral,at Tiny Poodles suggestion, which you can buy over the counter), but it took me being very diligent with the shampooing schedule (every 3-4 days for a bit) for it to work.


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## seminolewind (Mar 11, 2016)

It looks like seborrhea dermatitis. Not exzema, but close. I started getting it a few years ago. It's like little scabs on my head, and if you scrape at it, it gets flaky. I've also gotten flaky T-zone. The only thing that works on the hair is Neutrogena T Gel. It stinks but works. I also use Derma Zinc on my face. 

I don't know where it came from . At least I can be flake free.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

FireStorm said:


> Hans had an incident with some similar scaly//flakey looking spots, but his never opened up into sores. He never seemed itchy either. It cleared up with a Ketaconazole (not sure I spelled that right) shampoo (Nizoral,at Tiny Poodles suggestion, which you can buy over the counter), but it took me being very diligent with the shampooing schedule (every 3-4 days for a bit) for it to work.



So glad to hear that it worked for Hans! Hopefully you can taper off with the shampoos now - Timi is perfect with every 7-10 days now. Sometimes I wonder if she even needs it anymore, but I figure why rock the boat.
I would suggest trying the Nizoral and if that does not work, I would go straight to a Vet Defmatologist - they are so much better at figuring these things out and have treatment options that the regular Vet does not have available to them. Yes, they are more expensive, but often that can still be less expensive than going in ten different wrong directions with the regular vet - been there done that before!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Well, that is a relief that it's at least not itchy. Jose` has had...for years alopecia on his ears, around the rims of his eyes. Since he started on an all raw food diet, including (very significant I think) raw green tripe in every meal, it's all but disappeared, hair grew back, scaly look gone. I have heard from many that skin issues, allergies and other ailments have cleared up when put on a balanced, raw food diet. Not sure it does in every instance...in fact, it probably doesn't. But it's a thought. People talk about this all the time. You can try these shampoos and medications but remember...there may be some kind of chemical that isn't great. I don't know though...not having every used them. Just worth checking it all out. Best of luck. Hope it clears up. Hopefully, the vet will do a test to see what the heck it is for sure.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

I'm a bit concerned your vet sounds a little prejudiced about Poodles, because of the statement Poodles are prone to skin problems. Aside from SA, I don't think that is true, and wonder if your vet's predisposition to this idea is interfering with her diagnostic vigor.

Perhaps you could see a different vet? Yes, the dermatologist would be ideal, but why not go to a different local veterinarian? Even you could call around and ask if any local vets have special interest in or expertise with skin issues.

I'd try the Nizoral on that spot.


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

Streetcar said:


> I'm a bit concerned your vet sounds a little prejudiced about Poodles, because of the statement Poodles are prone to skin problems. Aside from SA, I don't think that is true, and wonder if your vet's predisposition to this idea is interfering with her diagnostic vigor.
> 
> Perhaps you could see a different vet? Yes, the dermatologist would be ideal, but why not go to a different local veterinarian? Even you could call around and ask if any local vets have special interest in or expertise with skin issues.
> 
> I'd try the Nizoral on that spot.


I have the same thought (on our vet)...I was not impressed with her assessment of this problem. That's a really good idea (to call around)...there's one other vet clinic that has a good reputation (and lots of vets) but they weren't taking any new patients when we got Dipper. The first vet we tried I didn't have a good first impression of, and then we switched to our current vet clinic. They supposedly have a more holistic approach but so far the only evidence I've seen of that is that they charge an arm and a leg. Sigh! We are in a very small town and don't have tons of options. But I will call the other two vet clinics I know of and ask if they have anyone with experience with poodles/skin issues. Thanks for the suggestion!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Well, that is a relief that it's at least not itchy. Jose` has had...for years alopecia on his ears, around the rims of his eyes. Since he started on an all raw food diet, including (very significant I think) raw green tripe in every meal, it's all but disappeared, hair grew back, scaly look gone. I have heard from many that skin issues, allergies and other ailments have cleared up when put on a balanced, raw food diet. Not sure it does in every instance...in fact, it probably doesn't. But it's a thought. People talk about this all the time. You can try these shampoos and medications but remember...there may be some kind of chemical that isn't great. I don't know though...not having every used them. Just worth checking it all out. Best of luck. Hope it clears up. Hopefully, the vet will do a test to see what the heck it is for sure.



Actually I do agree with the statement that poodles are prone to skin problems (compared to other dogs). I think that their skin is more similar to humans than dogs, and as such they are prone to the same sort of skin issues that we are - psoriasis /dandruff, acne - bacterial and yeast infections, especially if not bathed frequently enough. The vet dermatologist that we used to use drew many of his treatments from human medicine, which was something that the regular Vet could not do! That is who told me about using the Nizoral human dandruff shampoo for them!
And no harm using the Nizoral on the whole dog - it leaves their hair soft, lovely and pouffy and has a light fresh scent! I have been using it exclusively on Timi since she was maybe 5 or 6 months old. I am not even sure if she needs it anymore because her skin is perfect now, but I am of the school of if it isn't broken, why fix it!


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Actually I do agree with the statement that poodles are prone to skin problems (compared to other dogs). I think that their skin is more similar to humans than dogs, and as such they are prone to the same sort of skin issues that we are - psoriasis /dandruff, acne - bacterial and yeast infections, especially if not bathed frequently enough. The vet dermatologist that we used to use drew many of his treatments from human medicine, which was something that the regular Vet could not do! That is who told me about using the Nizoral human dandruff shampoo for them!
> And no harm using the Nizoral on the whole dog - it leaves their hair soft, lovely and pouffy and has a light fresh scent! I have been using it exclusively on Timi since she was maybe 5 or 6 months old. I am not even sure if she needs it anymore because her skin is perfect now, but I am of the school of if it isn't broken, why fix it!



Tiny, I agree with you completely on this! I'm pretty sure that Hans's issue started because I wasn't bathing him often enough. With my Chow, once a month baths were plenty, and he was fine if I went even longer than that. There is no way Hans can go that long without a bath. I'm going to try every 7 days with the Nizoral as you suggest and then maybe try 10 days if that goes well but that's about it I think.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

FireStorm said:


> Tiny, I agree with you completely on this! I'm pretty sure that Hans's issue started because I wasn't bathing him often enough. With my Chow, once a month baths were plenty, and he was fine if I went even longer than that. There is no way Hans can go that long without a bath. I'm going to try every 7 days with the Nizoral as you suggest and then maybe try 10 days if that goes well but that's about it I think.



Honestly, 10 days is pushing it - 10 days is me meaning to do it at 7 days, but not getting around to it for a few more days, but I would not want to make habit of it! And yes I have heard many owners of fur bearing dogs say things like bathing them every six months, or once a year, or never, and they are just fine! I just think that poodles are a whole different kettle of fish, and will have skin issues just as we would if we bathed so infrequently!
And by the way, the dermatologist told me that the idea of bathing them too often being bad for their skin is just an old wives tale, bathing them even every day is fine if the shampoo is gentle!


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Psoriasis is unfortunately an autoimmune disorder. In humans, I mean. And research is saying more and more watch for heart troubles in humans with it. Hoping it isn't being seen in Poodles in great numbers.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Streetcar said:


> Psoriasis is unfortunately an autoimmune disorder. In humans, I mean. And research is saying more and more watch for heart troubles in humans with it. Hoping it isn't being seen in Poodles in great numbers.



I don't know if it is clinically the same disease, but a human psoriasis medication, compounded into the proper dosage, was the only thing that helped one of my previous poodles who had allergies and a severe overproduction of dander that lead to terrible bacterial and yeast over growths .


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## Ktasbas (Mar 27, 2016)

Hi there,
My 6 month old standard just went through something very similar, except it was all over his entire body, and the scaly pathches burst and oozed yellow. We think he got a bacterial infection laying down on the artificial turf at puppy class. Look up puppy pyoderma. (similar to impetigo that children can get) Our vet put him on a cepha type oral antibiotic and we did chlorhexidine baths 3 times a week. He was on oral antibiotics for 10 days. Completely cleared it up. Good luck!

Kelley and Max


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## Ktasbas (Mar 27, 2016)

Hi there,
My 6 month old standard just went through something very similar, except it was all over his entire body, and the scaly pathches burst and oozed yellow. We think he got a bacterial infection laying down on the artificial turf at puppy class. Look up puppy pyoderma. (similar to impetigo that children can get) Our vet put him on a cepha type oral antibiotic and we did chlorhexidine baths 3 times a week. He was on oral antibiotics for 10 days. Completely cleared it up. Good luck!

Kelley and Max


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

thanks, so much great advice! I ordered some chlorhexidine shampoo since that's also what the breeder suggested and we've used it before on him (he used to get some red/scabby spots on his belly, they cleared up either from the shampoo or on their own, who knows!?) but I may try the nizoral as well. I have been bathing him weekly, but I will try more frequent washes on the spot that is acting up and see if it helps.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

JenO said:


> thanks, so much great advice! I ordered some chlorhexidine shampoo since that's also what the breeder suggested and we've used it before on him (he used to get some red/scabby spots on his belly, they cleared up either from the shampoo or on their own, who knows!?) but I may try the nizoral as well. I have been bathing him weekly, but I will try more frequent washes on the spot that is acting up and see if it helps.



I think the chlorhexidine is more about the infection. It is not unusual for dogs who have excess dander on the skin to get yeast or bacterial infections. The Nizoral would still be important to treat the dandruff - when that is gone, the bacteria won't be as likely to proliferate.
Also, while the dandruff is still going on, shaving the hair really helps to prevent the infections because the flakes can fall off instead of being held onto the skin by the hair.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I don't know if it is clinically the same disease, but a human psoriasis medication, compounded into the proper dosage, was the only thing that helped one of my previous poodles who had allergies and a severe overproduction of dander that lead to terrible bacterial and yeast over growths .


That's fascinating! I hope someday all autoimmune conditions are unraveled and solved, for humans and pets.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Streetcar said:


> That's fascinating! I hope someday all autoimmune conditions are unraveled and solved, for humans and pets.



So do I! My doctor says though that our best hope is that we might be able to tag along on something that they discover in AIDS research - he says that is still where most of the studies on autoimmune disease are happening.


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