# Two Poodle puppies, oh my!



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I didn't want to hijack Caniche's thread where she was worried about her two puppies not bonding to her. So, here's my thread about my two puppies that are two days apart in age. Granted, they're not from the same litter (same breeder though) but got along great from the get go, were quite attached, with a couple of exceptions. They could not tolerate being in the same crate together where my Chihuahuas were more in love that way and didn't mind the close quarters. The Poodles would squabble. That's when I very first had them and discovered that would not work. But they could be in the ex pen together just honky dory. They very occasionally have a spit spat over a toy but it's really nothing much.

I know it happens that dogs can bond too much to each other but I don't think that's a given as is suggested often. I believe if handled carefully, AND depending on the breed perhaps (maybe a less drivey breed) two puppies can grow up together to be perfectly well adjusted and bonded to their humans. My two adore me and my family. I've had dogs all my life and these Poodles are just as bonded to me as any of my dogs were...we're very attached. They're outgoing and friendly to other people and dogs. When I suggested this litter mate syndrome to my breeder when on the fence about whether to get two puppies, he looked at me like aliens had visited me and changed my circuitry. And he said, "Not with these Poodles. You have nothing to worry about." He did have some understanding of my history with dogs.

Even though many behaviorists will advise against it, and I always have advised against getting two puppies at the same time...still do, I am compelled to present my situation when people keep touting how impossible and how "doomed" acquirers of two same-aged puppies are slated to be. I hate for someone to feel doomed before they even take the vow. (My Fair Lady again, lol) Doomed, defeated before they've even gotten started! No way Jose`. You can do this Caniche. But it does take more time and work. So, roll up your sleeves, work hard and make time for those pups. 

If anyone else has success stories like mine about two puppies growing up together, do share. I do believe if the puppies don't have enough to do or enough attention from humans, of course they'll seek each other out and give up on the humans in the picture. But I think this litter mate "syndrome" is a tad bit exaggerated. Yes, be aware, take precaution and be pro-active with the two puppies in handling things prudently. 

Furthermore, I don't think a personality trait (or an environmental response) that shows up early is _necessarily_ going to be expressed vividly forever. For instance, as I mentioned in the other thread, Maurice was weird for the first few months. He seemed like he was in his own world a little bit...not _as _responsive as Matisse. (but not that way at his breeder's...just a little subtle) But he came around in a few months and is completely normal and very endearing and attentive...responsive. He was a late bloomer I guess or maybe shell shocked from changing homes. Or in a fear period that made him weird. Who knows? But I wouldn't jump to conclusions and chalk up a bit of aloofness to one cause or another, including litter mate "syndrome." It may be part of his personality. Or how he's adjusting to his new situation. It's too soon to tell imo. 



*Where'd mom go? * Do they look disinterested in me? And only bonded to each other?



There's Jose` at the entry...also waiting for me to come downstairs. 




Yep...couldn't care less that I asked him to stay while I went and hid under the arbor where he can barely see me. Is only interested in Matisse who's sitting behind him a few feet away.



"Out of site" stay. Well, sort of. Leashes are hooked over picket but loose. Does he look like he'd rather be playing with Maurice who's near by with leash loop over fence? Or is he intent on the "job" at hand that I've asked of him.... to sit, stay with me around the corner under the arbor? I'm embarrassed...didn't notice his leg missed going through the harness right. lol. But he's into me and our work together, right? He's not seeing me very well, as I'm tucked around the corner and under the rose arbor. He's watching the neighbor coming out of her driveway with her Lab...going for a walk. But he's staying. 



I'm also embarrassed about my diseased rose bush. Akkk.

Matisse, Maurice, sit-stay. As you can see, they're straining to get to each other, which they could...leashes loose enough, and never mind me and that I've asked them to sit-stay. lol. 



Sometimes we train separately, sometimes together. Now that they're older, I very often walk them together or go on off leash hikes. They both must mind me...come when called, "halt" is something we're working on that is useful. Soon we'll work on drop on recall separately, then together. We're not quite ready for that yet. It potentially saved another dog from my Doberman once when Lyric was chasing an intruding dog through my pasture. I told him, "Halt! down" from a couple hundred feet away and he waited there until I came with a leash. So, they must mind me when it's just one of them or all three of them....especially on hikes in the wilderness. So, you can practice that way too...both plenty of separate time and together time. They need to apply those skills in various contexts and locations. We practice off leash too, but in safer locations. If you don't have the time, energy or inclination to do it this way for at least the first year or so, then it is a mistake to get two puppies at once I think.


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## Beaches (Jan 25, 2014)

Good point Pb - well made.


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## Naira (Jan 9, 2015)

Excellent success story! 

Even though Naira has probably been one of the easiest puppies of all time, I couldn't do two Naira's at the same time. I just wouldn't have the time or motivation, like you stated in your post. 

I'm not a perfect person, and sometimes those puppy antics can get frustrating. The main thing I've learned is I cannot control other people. I can try my hardest to teach my dog to sit for greetings...but today for example when an older woman burst out from her apartment yelling, "Is that a poodle!!???" and ran up to Naira and held her up by her paws to pet her...and Naira acted like a bucking bronco on leash trying to get to that woman because the woman made the excitement level a 15 out of 10...was quite frustrating! I went back inside, regrouped and continued training. 

I can't imagine having doubling the frustrations...because those frustrating moments are quite frustrating! And you can't train them at the same time. 

I would always wonder if puppy #1 was all that she could be had puppy #2 not been there. Naira was seemingly born to be a docile house dog that doesn't chew or get into trouble...would that have been the same if I had gotten her and my last pup (my mini) at the same time who loved to tear up the carpet, and other things in the house? Would she be being crated right now at 11 months instead of having free roam of the house since 4 months had they had grown up together? Most likely. 

Would her personality that I love been in some way influenced by for example my last pup who was almost her total opposite (fearful, destructive etc)...most likely. 

These are just some of the thoughts that have flowed through my mind. It's just Naira and I, no one else to help out so having two standard pups would be a disaster for me. 

But if you have the time, money, resources and motivation I think it's possible to pull it off.


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## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

I'm not (yet) a success story of raising two puppies together, but I hope to be someday! mine are both still puppies (12 weeks and 16 weeks), but as far as I can tell are doing just fine being raised together.

we've had setbacks with Piper's housebreaking due to an intestinal infection and a UTI that just doesn't want to clear up, and I know having Jasper housebroken before she arrived saved us a huge hassle.

We crate them in separate rooms, take them on separate walks and outings, and train them separately. They do spend most of their time together, but they also spend most of their time with either me or my girlfriend due to our convenient schedules. So far so good, so im obviously hoping we end up as a success story


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I don't know Naira...I don't analyze things as much I guess...as far as wondering what they'd be like if I only had one. I guess I could say I wonder what they'd be like if they were the only one. I like how they've turned out as young adults just fine. They're sweet, appealing, well behaved...at least to my satisfaction. I do get compliments on their behavior quite a bit when we're out and about. They're loving, affectionate with me, with each other. They have built-in pals that know each other inside and out by now. In many ways, as puppies, they were easier because of having two. They never cried at night. I didn't need to go to a dog park. lol. 

Now that they're older, I can walk them both at the same time so it's not as time consuming. Today they had their own individual walk mid morning and just now got back from a walk on a loooong trail with the two of them. Jose` had a shorter walk earlier. They do get trained at the same time with some things. I spend about 10 minutes once or twice a day (most days) training them certain things and a little here and there along our walks. I don't need perfection for sure...just mostly practical things that I feel they need for our life style. I want them to be safe and I like compliance and generally nice manners. So, I work on things of that nature. I don't mind a lot of things that perhaps other people do, like putting their feet up on people. I don't love it. But like you, have found it difficult when everyone says, "Oh, it's okay." I threw up my hands and let them have at it. They're not clawing or wild. They just delicately put their little q-tip sized feet on peoples' legs when they want attention. What can I say? They bark a lot at home and that's something I really haven't gotten a handle on. Otherwise, they're really nice little dogs. 

There were some frustrating moments all right. But I guess I just sort of took it in stride and figured they'd get past that pretty soon. And they did. They weren't that bad....Matisse was a busy body...very active but he's really mellowed out. Maurice was more laid back. So, they are very different in temperament. But they were cheerful, have wonderful temperaments and I really didn't have any problems other than regular puppy antics. I've raised a lot of puppies, some very active, some not as much... and I guess after my Doberman as my most recent puppy before the Poodles, these guys were like sloths. lol. I figured if I could raise a wonderful Dobe, I could raise anything. They're definitely not for the faint of heart as puppies. I don't think I would have done it with two larger breed dogs or Standard Poodles. These tiny, tid bit twits were and are pretty easy peasy. I wouldn't do it if I were working outside the home. As it is, I'm home all day. So, yeah...I have the time. Dogs are my biggest interest and so only parts of having dogs are a lot of work to me. Most of it is fun and interesting work I guess.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Coldbrew said:


> I'm not (yet) a success story of raising two puppies together, but I hope to be someday! mine are both still puppies (12 weeks and 16 weeks), but as far as I can tell are doing just fine being raised together.
> 
> we've had setbacks with Piper's housebreaking due to an intestinal infection and a UTI that just doesn't want to clear up, and I know having Jasper housebroken before she arrived saved us a huge hassle.
> 
> We crate them in separate rooms, take them on separate walks and outings, and train them separately. They do spend most of their time together, but they also spend most of their time with either me or my girlfriend due to our convenient schedules. So far so good, so im obviously hoping we end up as a success story


It sounds like you're doing everything really thoughtfully and sensibly. I'm sorry about the infections. That is not good. I hope the UTI will clear up soon. Mine were late bloomers on house breaking. That's one area I wasn't Johnny on the spot about enough. But they're fine now. It took longer to let them have free run of the house when I was gone than past puppies. That's another area that I don't know if it's on account of having the two puppies or some other reason...something about their individual personalities or what. I never had more mouthy dogs before, not even my Lab. So, that's partly why I _think_ they took longer to be left alone loose in the house. So, some of the things we might find are pros _or _cons about this kind of situation, I think we need to be careful not to jump to conclusions as to what the cause is for those behaviors or not even behaviors, but the way things are. We might think they chewed things more because there were two of them and monkey see, monkey do. That could be. But it also might be that they would do a lot of chewing anyhow because they're retrievers and everything goes into the mouths of retrievers, right? lol. I also don't like to scold harshly. I take my time teaching them things like what things can be chewed on and what really doesn't work too well to chew on. (because they get interrupted anytime they try and shown something else) At least that's the plan. lol. I believe in letting puppies be puppies. They _learn_, but Rome wasn't built in a day. 

Good luck. It sounds like you have a good system going and I bet you'll raise two nice dogs also!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

PB I've heard so many sad stories of young dogs Who are rehomed because of an owner's laziness in 'puppy raising', and of course it's all the puppy's fault for chewing up the couch, peeing on the thousand dollar rug, & biting the 6 year old, BECAUSE IT JUST WON'T LISTEN!!!!!!....................Your boys are a good example of doing it RIGHT way X 2!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Oh Molly, yes...for sure. In Idaho I had some neighbors who were not dog savvy at all. They adopted from the shelter 2 GSD puppies. I think they got them from the shelter anyhow. And they just let those dogs run wild through the area...no supervision all day long. They did nothing with those puppies. They ran around the neighborhood (such as it was....it was in the country) and bothered peoples' livestock and who knows what all. Some time later, I went with my niece to the shelter to help her choose a kitten to adopt. And who did I see? Those two puppies....back in the shelter. They were cute and could have been great had someone done something with them. I saw a lot of really poor treatment of dogs where I use to live...single dogs too. It was full of a lot of ignorant, backward dog owners. 

And there was one couple who adopted two puppies, had trouble with them but it had nothing to do with litter mate syndrome. It was really just the normal puppy behavior that they couldn't deal with. Two puppies_ are _more work. They're harder to supervise when both are on the loose. lol. But the difficulties are not always on account of not bonding with the humans. So these people could afford to pay me for 2 or 3 sessions of privates and they made it work... got those dogs (medium sized shepherd mixes) potty trained and got them to stop jumping up, gnawing on people etc etc. But so many do not. 

Arrgghhhh! I just noticed I meant to write "sight" in my op (out of sight staying) but wrote "site." (site plans, site evaluation, building site, haha) I've been working on some property development project lately and that spelling just automatically got typed. ROFLOL! :alberteinstein: 

But yeah Molly...it's very sad what people do to ruin dogs.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Oh, I just wanted to add that their staying when their leashes are looped over the fence isn't any great feat or demonstration of their learning. They know they can't go too far being hooked to the fence so they might as well stay, especially when they know they'll get a treat. But they stay sitting and don't get up to go to each other. So they're coming along. We do practice in other places where they're not tied also. But we were about to go for a walk and I just wanted to snap some quick pictures first. 

It's hard to take my phone with me on walks when I don't have good pockets. So, maybe some time, I'll get some more pictures when I can carry my phone along. 

They are kind of late bloomers with some of this because I don't work that hard on their training like I use to in the olden days. lol. We just sort of mosey along. My Doberman was so much further along by the time he was 6 months old. But I was really into it more then...spent more time on training. So, maybe I'll get more on it this winter. Do any of you find you're doing less diligent training than you use to....if you're getting older? Or is it just me?:afraid: I think I'm getting lazier about it. Plus, I've gotten super busy in the last year or so. I mean...they're pretty good and all, but they're already 2 + years old! It's like...where did the time go? We need to get on it here.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I find as I have gotten older, it isn't as important for my dog to be 'perfectly behaved' as long as she is not obnoxious to others and has a 'off' button! Basics are important of course, for her own safety, but as long as she comes when I call her, and knows when I 'uhuh' her she quits what she's doing, we are fine and all the extras( tricks ) are just for fun! I find I 'talk' to Molly, not give her 'orders'.........not as strict as I was in my younger years, much like the difference between the way I raised my Son, and the way I spoil my G-Kids hahaha!!!!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

You could not pay me to raise two puppies at once. I say that having bred a couple of litters and having, once, chosen to hold onto 3 puppies until 12 weeks of age. Never. Again. However, I don't feel that it isn't possible for a knowledgeable pet owner to raise two puppies together correctly. I just personally find more enjoyment in raising a puppy if I don't have to do all of the work x2! I will not ever recommend it and I will not ever sell two puppies to the same owner. But yes, it can be done.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Sure it can be done, but problem is that the average pet seeker often cannot handle the task of raising one properly let alone two.
I think that typically, much like the doodle buyers have unrealistic expectations which are a set-up for failure, I think that the buyers of two puppies have unrealistic expectations that it will be easier with two, which is also a set-up for a gigantic failure.
Not talking about PFers, but the typical home.
Me, I did raise two who were six months apart, and it was fine, and I am sure that I could raise two littermates well if I set my mind to it, but no way would I want to. Rather I want to relish the experience with just one, and once I have done pretty much everything that I want to do with her, move on to enjoy raising the next one. Instead of enjoying it, to me raising two would feel like a job and a burden. Even though if the right puppy came along tomorrow, I would grab her, I am honestly hoping that she doesn't come along for another 2-3 years - I have lots more that I still want to do with Timi!
Plus, on the other end, I can tell you from personal experience that it sucks to care for consecutive or simultaneous seniors. Much better for my mental health to have some age spread between them!


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## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

I think anyone getting two puppies with the idea that having two will be easier is the kind of person that will end up with two not-as-great-as-they-could-be dogs. Though that's not to say that a person might go into it thinking it'll be easier, realize it's not, and take all the necessary steps to adjust both themselves and their lifestyle to two puppies and end up with great dogs. It's that adjustment step that I think most multiple-puppy households might not be willing to take.

I struggled over the decision of two, but my schedule is so flexible, my girlfriend's work hours have her home with the dogs every single time I'm not able to be there, and neither puppy is inclined to be destructive in the slightest (except toward receipt paper, something about that texture makes them bonkers!). If any of those variables were altered dramatically you'd probably all be witnessing my slow descent into dog-induced madness via posts on this forum.

That said, I imagine that raising littermates is even more of a test than raising unrelated puppies.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I enjoyed raising my two puppies.


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

I know I would not be a candidate for two puppies, although I can see someone like PBG doing it incredibly well. I agree that most dog owners do not have the resolve for it. I'm a pretty committed dog owner and I'm not sure I do. When I worked in rescue, sometimes people would want to adopt two littermate puppies. We did it a few times with the right adopter, and as far as I now, they were good placements, but it's not for the faint of heart.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Thank you Caroline. I think a lot of people tend to take things more seriously where their dogs are concerned, so where they might feel burdened, to me, it was, for the most part, a lot of fun. I do tend to have a sense of humor with things that a lot of people would take more seriously because I know things will all work out and I just enjoy the moment pretty much. There were a few things that weren't great like Maurice chewing on my pretty antique chair and the corner of my Oriental rug but what their little mouths did a big dog would have done a lot more damage. We managed to avoid a lot of that but a few things slipped in there. They always were _very_ interested in humans in general and me in particular so I didn't get a sense of doom that they'd mainly bond to each other...not any hint of that from these two. 

I can tell you my Doberman puppy was more energetic, more demanding of exercise, more intense about everything, getting into everything way more than these little toy Poodles. I loved him to pieces, don't get me wrong. He was my heart dog. But I was, at times ready to pack his suitcase...but he finally got civilized and wonderful and a couple years later, he died. I could have 2 Maurices_ and _2 Matisses to one Doberman puppy and it_ still _wouldn't be as much work. lol. I thoroughly have enjoyed raising these two little dumplings together. They have always been a great source of entertainment...watching them together how they interact and play. What a hoot!


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

I did it...our two are females, sisters, from the same litter. They're 4 and 1/2 years old now and they're awesome. However, lifestyle might enter into this equation. We are an active family and enjoyed taking the puppies (after their final shots) for rambunctious romps at the park and dog beach, and hikes. One or more of those every day. Now that they're older, we live on a huge property so they can romp and explore to their heart's content. That isn't as ideal as you might think though because we keep a close eye on them due to Maddie's genius for finding dangerous things to do. However, I also love obedience lessons and to me, that's the very most important part of having dogs. An obedient dog is an easier dog to live with, in every aspect of your lives together. If the owner enjoys obedience lessons too, you can't go wrong! Anyway, I may not be viewing it from the average dog owner's perspective but I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with having 2 puppies at a time if you realize what you're getting into. I agree with Poodlebeguiled.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Your dogs are beautiful Indiana. I think that's something we have in common, you may have hit the nail on the head...both the active type of people. To me, it's not _that_ big a deal. 

I think you're right. Lots of the average pet owners don't really do anything much with their dogs. So that doesn't do one dog any good, let alone two

Sure, I found it a little more work in many ways. But also I found in many ways, it made some things easier having two. And I agree with your about obedience. It keeps young puppies out of trouble. It helps in a really global way toward better behavior I think. I don't think one has to do all kinds of intricate extras but keeping an active dog's mind stimulated really helps. Anyhow, they grow up all too fast and leave that puppy whirlwind time. So that certainly isn't a permanent thing. 

Heheh...I was looking for some pictures, doing a search and I came upon this old thread. I forgot that I started it. It's from when my puppies were much younger. But there are all kinds of interesting posts from people who also had two puppies and in one person's case (wish he were still here) three puppies the same age. All success stories if I recall correctly. 

http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/84378-same-age-puppies-same-time-anyone-else.html

Well...thanks for sharing your story.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Thanks! Your dogs are beautiful too. That older thread WAS a good one! Ha,ha in it I said 2 energetic dogs weren't enough so at that point I had 3...now I have 4! I should qualify my post though by saying, I have had challenges for sure. I posted on here about Maddy attacking my Boston Terrier, and I was plenty worried about that. But we worked that out and it never happens anymore. Maddy also gets into the cabinets whenever she is not supervised, but then I saw this facebook post where people filmed their dogs pushing chairs over to the counter to get onto the counters, and dogs opening fridges...I thank the good lord Maddy hasn't figured that out yet! So I guess my point is, there have been challenges but I love having more than one dog so to me it's worth it and I love my life with all these animals.


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## Caniche (Jun 10, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I didn't want to hijack Caniche's thread where she was worried about her two puppies not bonding to her. So, here's my thread about my two puppies that are two days apart in age. Granted, they're not from the same litter (same breeder though) but got along great from the get go, were quite attached, with a couple of exceptions. They could not tolerate being in the same crate together where my Chihuahuas were more in love that way and didn't mind the close quarters. The Poodles would squabble. That's when I very first had them and discovered that would not work. But they could be in the ex pen together just honky dory. They very occasionally have a spit spat over a toy but it's really nothing much.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am SO sorry that I haven't seen this post until now. It absolutely makes my heart melt that you created this thread to give me hope. 

I haven't been on this site since shortly after posting my last thread titled "Am I doomed?" 

I had written that thread only 5 days into a multiple puppy household. I was terrified, concerned, upset and downright facing puppy post partem. 

I haven't been back on this site for two reasons - I've been very, very busy with five dogs and I was a bit disheartened and frustrated after reading some of the responses. I don't blame anyone - I am, after all, the one who asked the questions. I did feel as though I was met with "you've made a huge mistake" and "your life is over" and "this is a nightmare" types of responses. 

But, as in life, you decide to make your journey your own and move on.

So for an update....

The boys are doing great. Tucker and Auguste are separated in different Iris pens during the day and have playtime throughout the day and evening. I've bonded with both. The training is great - they're both smart and spirited and ready to learn. They don't fight anymore, although they can play a little rough at times. Auguste also loves to play with Cash, which is great for Cash since he needs to burn up extra energy. All the fears and worries have gone away. As soon as they get their second DHPP they're going to obedience. And most of all, I don't regret getting two puppies one little bit. 

So thank you for your encouragement, your help and your post. It means more than you can ever know.


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