# Is my puppy co-dependent?



## dogfriend (Oct 9, 2016)

My 4.5 month mini poodle puppy is lovely. She follows commands, she is loving, she is funny, she is almost potty trained. In sum: I feel very lucky.

All that said, I worry sometimes that she only likes my husband and me. She enjoys other dogs, but only when we're also around. 

We've worked very hard to socialize her, but she only likes people after having met them several times. 

My biggest fear is that she might become an anxious biter. I see no hint of this now, but I would like to do whatever I can to address it. 

She is enrolled in two puppy classes. Interesting she does great when we give her commands, but whenever the teachers try to work with her, she sort of shuts down or tries to oblige while staying as far away as possible! 

Thoughts?

Thank you!


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Yes. Your dog is co-dependent. Poodles are extremely people oriented, their people especially and that is completly normal and rather wonderful. They can be mouthy but if treated firmly and fairly, they are not aggressive. If she responds to your commands, I would relax and buy a lottery ticket Good dog! She will become more comfortable with the trainers with a few more sessions or get different trainers! Let us know how it goes.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Dogs are like humans. Some of them are really into people, some less, and others not at all.

The two dogs I have right now are both in the last category : they don't like people they don't know well. People whom they haven't spent many, many hours with. I think you just have to accept that and deal with it. You socialize as best as you can, multiply the occasions to meet and greet, but besides that, there isn't much you can do. Since your dog is young, she will improve with socialization. But she will never be the outgoing type of dog.

Both my dogs will try to bite if they are cornered. Once you know it, it's not a problem because you don't let people pick them up or pet them and it's fine. Boarding them is more of a challenge but experienced people will know how to deal with those dogs.

I personnally don't care if my dogs aren't into other people. They're my companions, not other people's !


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

I think it may be a little early to label this puppy "co-dependent" or one that "doesn't like people" and may bite. Puppies go through lots of stages while they are growing and learning, I think you've been doing great so far introducing your pup to a whole new world. Keep doing what you've been doing, Mabel is only 18 weeks old and has come a long way already. I think you said in another thread that the daycare people have to chase her down to walk or bath her, personally, I'd question their knowledge and way of doing things.


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## dogfriend (Oct 9, 2016)

Many thanks for your words of encouragement. 

Mabel has changed SO MUCH in the two months that she's lived with us. Initially, she was terrified of the city. Hated to be anywhere other than the park. Refused to walk on the concrete, etc. She has now COMPLETELY come into her own. She trots along. Greets dogs. Doesn't bat an eye when there are fire trucks or other loud noises. 

So my hope is she will continue to grow in confidence.

That said, I do think she is a bit of an introvert! I wonder what you all think about my having her "grandparents" keep her for a week or a good friend keep her for a night or two. Perhaps this would help demonstrate to her that people other than her at-home family are worth getting to know and spending time with, but I also don't want to traumatize her. 

THANK YOU!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I think it's a good idea to have other people babysit her if they can do it at your house, preferably. or you could have them come by and walk her once a day, or once every few days. If it has to be at their house, make sure you take her there a few times so she knows the place beforehand. Last thing you want is to make her feel anxious in a strange place.

My dog won't even walk with anyone except me and that's a challenge. I didn't raise him as a puppy, that makes a big difference.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Your puppy is very young and still developing. She is past or just about past that window for the critical, early socialization period. It's good that you have put energy into socializing your pup but do continue, making sure that encounters are pleasant, not overwhelming...sounds like that's what you've been doing. 

As far as leaving your pup over night...that might be a little too much for her right now. I'd let her get established more in your household, your routine and ways...give her that base for confidence, then maybe later she'll be older and ready to branch out. That's just my gut feeling.

Sometimes what's fun and effective is taking a walk together with a friend or someone, or walk kind of close behind someone she doesn't know...just some random person...something about walking parallel or in the same direction... on a "mission" seems to bring a little confidence to dogs who are a tad uncomfortable with others. 

Just keep doing what you've been doing...associate really nice times, tasty treats with people and dogs. Don't over whelm or force the issue. Let her choose but try to make the thing you want look pretty nifty to her. 

I think it's very early to know how she's going to wind up with strangers. She may simply be showing a healthy suspicion...a little reserved and that's okay... but hopefully, not overly cowering. Or maybe her temperament isn't quite as solid as you'd like. Take it easy but steady...every day try to meet a few new people, new dogs, new places, new things going on, while dispensing super tasty treats, fun, praise but not over whelming. It's sure a balancing act, isn't it. She'll develop and grow as she experiences life and hopefully learns that she has her human (s) to take care of her and that friendly strangers are all right. If she doesn't want to go right up close and personal with anyone, try keeping her at a comfortable distance so that she sees people and try pairing some stupendous treats and attention when she sees people and then gradually, over a little time, move closer. I'd move her away further again, once she is able to get closer without reacting fearfully. Show her that her getting closer just earned her a reward...going further away. That's what she wants, right? Later, that getting closer will work as a sort of conditioned reinforcer. She'll start associating a comfortable feeling with getting closer to strangers because of a history of getting that relief of distance when she did get close to people. And hopefully, her shyness will lessen. But again, it does depend too on her temperament. 

Maybe the classes are too over whelming for her right now. (?) Sometimes just one on one or a very few people and/or dogs works better for shy dogs. If she's truly cowering, I'd enlist the help of a behaviorist right now before she gets any older and see if, when evaluated, in person...the behaviorist can come up with some ideas.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Poppy was very like this as a puppy - perhaps even more nervous around new people. She avoided one instructor at puppy class for weeks after being briefly held for a recall exercise. I found asking people not to loom over her made a big difference; she would go to someone who crouched down and did not look directly at her and quickly gain confidence with them, while staying well away from anyone who bent over her or stared. She also discovered that if she sat in just the right position on a lap people would almost automatically start giving her back rubs, and she LOVES back rubs! I do wish that I had started leaving her with family and friends for very short periods when she was younger, though - she is fine left with someone she knows in her own house, but believes the world is coming to an end if I leave her anywhere else. Looking back I should have caught the moment when adolescent independence struck at around 7 months and built on that, but I was very wary of risking damaging her slowly growing confidence. 

I would let her learn confidence at her own pace - encourage and reward polite interactions, but always be prepared to step in to protect her from unwanted advances and never force her to face her fears, or accept petting that she does not want. If she can trust you to keep the scary stuff away she won't have to resort to growls or eventual bites to do so. In the pressure to get all those hundreds of socialising experiences ticked off it is easy to forget that the key thing is that they should be positive, happy experiences.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I see you live in Brooklyn. It is hectic there a lot of the time! Your little girl is adjusting to her new life in a much bigger world of sights, sounds, smells and the like. I think her attraction and affection for you and your husband over brand new people is pretty normal. Puppies like young children appreciate some level of predictability in their lives and you and your husband represent that. 

I don't think I would send her away from home to get her used to other people since that will be a huge break in the predictability of her life with a double whammy of not being in the home she is familiar with and then stuck with people who she may not really feel comfortable with. I agree with the idea of trying to routinely have a couple of different people come to her home. At first I would stick around and when she shows comfort with the visitor(s) while you are there you should leave for a short amount of time (like just walk out to the street and going back in). Make sure you have the visitors tell you if she seemed worried by your absence. As she is able to enjoy the visitors in your absence, extend your time out.

While ideally we all want that perfectly socialized dog we also need to respect that each dog is an individual who has his own personality and a unique set of life experiences that shape their responses. Let the puppy guide you in terms of developing her social style. I'm not saying let her be a fearful snappy dog, but let her tell you when she is ready to take new steps like working for the class instructor or accepting a greeting or pets from a friendly stranger. When she breaks through new barriers praise and reward heavily to show you appreciate that it was perhaps hard for her to do this new thing. She might never be the social butterfly that my poodles are, but she will grow and gain confidence.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

My 3 girls are co-dependent on me, and they do not take to strangers, and will not walk for anyone unless I am there. One is very shy, Bella somewhat, Cayenne is not afraid of the devil himself, but does not want to go with anyone. At lease I know no one could easily steal them


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## dogfriend (Oct 9, 2016)

These are all very helpful insights. 

I think that Mabel's personality is rather reserved. I would not describe her as excessively fearful. She does not cower. She does not seem afraid as she initially did upon arriving in the city. She just does not LIKE people. She doesn't want them to pat her head. She does not want them to pick her up. She tolerates the groomer without any emotion. Same thing at the vet. By contrast she very obviously wants me to hold and pet her. She wants to marry my husband  But other people are just not interesting unless they're completely ignoring her and allowing her to sniff them. People she has met several times she will stand near but not very close and lean forward to noncommittally sniff and even lick them. One friend has managed to walk her and develop a bond. 

I will continue to have friends drop by and greet her. But it's strange to tell people to ignore your new puppy who they're excited to meet! 

Also challenging on the crowded streets of Brooklyn and Manhatten (she's great in both) are the many unpredictable strangers on the street who sometimes bend over to pat her! If they have dogs they often tell me I need to work on socializing her as she runs from them! If they don't, they make comments about how she "smells their evil" or how she "must be racist." My response is always: she's a bit shy with everyone. It's all rather surprising and odd. But she's happy as a clam walking along undisturbed, so I don't want to stop taking her out among the throngs.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

It was people bending over and reaching over her head that Poppy really disliked. If they squatted she was quickly best friends with them, especially if they offered her something scrummy. Sounds to me as if Mabel is perfectly polite but not much bothered, which is not a bad trait in a busy city. I taught mine Say Hello Nicely!, where a polite greeting, no matter how unenthusiastic, was rewarded with a good treat. Sophy usually goes first, proving all is safe, and once Poppy knows that there is food or scritching involved she will often join in. But I never insist - if they decide that they do not want to talk to this particular adult or child I explain that we are on our way to look for squirrels/to get biscuits at the cafe/home for supper, and they are in rather a hurry!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

dogfriend said:


> These are all very helpful insights.
> 
> I think that Mabel's personality is rather reserved. I would not describe her as excessively fearful. She does not cower. She does not seem afraid as she initially did upon arriving in the city. She just does not LIKE people. She doesn't want them to pat her head. She does not want them to pick her up. She tolerates the groomer without any emotion. Same thing at the vet. By contrast she very obviously wants me to hold and pet her. She wants to marry my husband  But other people are just not interesting unless they're completely ignoring her and allowing her to sniff them. People she has met several times she will stand near but not very close and lean forward to noncommittally sniff and even lick them. One friend has managed to walk her and develop a bond.
> 
> ...


Petting on the head is the most intimidating for a dog and should not be done unless the dog is outgoing or knows you and likes you. Strange dogs should be petted on the chest or back. No leaning on top of them, it looks menacing.

I don't find it odd at all that some dogs don't like other people. It is very, very common. Probably more in small dogs because they are very aware of their own fragility. But also seen in medium size and big dogs. It's a good opportunity for you to educate people. I am rather amazed that some people think all dogs should automatically like every stranger they meet... would you expect that from a kid ? Not saying dogs are kids, but on some aspects they are similar.

Your dog is fine, it's people that have Disney movie expectations when they meet a dog that are strange !


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Patting on the head is just awful for most dogs (and people)! My older niece used to play with her four year's younger sister's hair all the time and pat and rub her on the head. The younger one's first well constructed sentences were mostly about he telling anybody who would listen how much she hated it. when the AKC made obedience rules changes last year they adjusted the utility moving stand for examination to have the judges only touch the sides of the dog's body (taking out a head touch), but ironically left touch the head as the whole exam in beginner novice and part of the novice stand for exam. Now the dog's that are most inexperienced are being touched on the head and the dogs that are very experienced and mostly have learned to reading accept it don't have that part of the exam any more. It does not make any sense to me!

Again although as you said, she seems to have a reserved personality she does come to accept people on her terms and with some time, but I would be happy with that. One of my concerns when I am at trials with Lily is that she is so friendly to everyone she meets that she could be removed from her crate and walk away with someone who has malicious intent. At AKC rally and obedience nationals in 2014 I showed in rally on Friday and then stewarded for obedience on Saturday. We took no breaks and I wanted her to be able to get out of her crate to stretch and potty. One of my friends from my club was there watching on Saturday. I caught her attention and asked her if she would take Lily out. My social butterfly went with her like they were lifelong buddies even though at that time she really didn't know the person at all. I would prefer somewhat more reserved with people she didn't know. 

Let Mabel lead at her comfort level and she will become more confident and socially adept. I think you are doing fine.


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## dogfriend (Oct 9, 2016)

I really appreciate this advice and sense that this is normal.

People regularly ask me if she is a rescue--implying she has been abused and that is why she is so unfriendly  

I love her, and I think i'm probably fretting too much as a first time owner!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

dogfriend said:


> I really appreciate this advice and sense that this is normal.
> 
> People regularly ask me if she is a rescue--implying she has been abused and that is why she is so unfriendly
> 
> I love her, and I think i'm probably fretting too much as a first time owner!



Well I'm not so sure that people ask if she is a rescue because they think she has been abused. I get asked all the time if which ever dog(s) I have with me are rescues and when I say no and that I chose them from well bred litters I get any of three reactions roughly in this order: 1. disappointment that I didn't rescue; 2. anger and disdain that I didn't rescue; 3. we meet a person who doesn't ask if they are rescues and tells me how much they love poodles or GSDs and are so happy to see a nice one.

Don't worry too much. Let yourself enjoy these puppy days. They will be gone before you know it!


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

I'm super late to see this post, but I just wanted to tell you our Chuui was like this when we got her. She was 5 months old when she came to us from suburban Cincinnati to noisy JFK/Brooklyn. She wouldn't come to us out of her crate until she saw Mochi. Then it took me 30min to get her in my arms so we could get in the car and go home. 

At home, she was quickly adjusted to us by bedtime the first day, but strangers? NO WAY! She was the polar opposite of Mochi, who has never met a person who wasn't a personal gift to her to love on. Chuui's reaction to strangers is to bark excessively at them until they go away. If they don't go away, she adds growls and backing up and running forward repeatedly. 

But that was then.

She has come a long way. We did have to leave her with family for a long day about 3 weeks after she came home. We had visited them, my mother-in-law and her boyfriend the day before to introduce them, and there was much barking in her house anytime one of them walked toward her or past her. But when we came back the next day, there was just a little bit of barking when we first went inside. And when we returned hours later, Chuui was crying if one of them went out of sight and she could not follow! Though it took a few more visits before she wouldn't bark at the beginning or if she forgot she had already made nice with one of them. 

Now she hardly barks even if they "invade" our own place. And same thing with my parents - tons of barking at them the whole time we visited the first and second time, but then we had to leave her with them for a whole day and ever since then, she just barks in excitement when they first come and is soon loving on them along with Mochi. 

Strangers still warrant barks, but if she sees Mochi going insane jumping all over strangers for love, Chuui becomes more curious than distrustful and eventually is jumping right there with Mochi. She used to shy away if the stranger reached out to pet her, and I was also asked repeatedly if she was a rescue. But I always just said the people that had her before us never socialized her so we have our work cut out for us. Mochi really emphasized the difference in their socialization. But now she doesn't run away if they reach out to pet, just goes back into a sit from her stand on back legs, and watches the hand warily. She doesn't seem like she'll ever love strangers as much as Mochi, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I think she's started barking more aggressively only when the strangers are kids(!) or men walking large dogs when I'm holding her leash. My husband says she never reacts that way if he's walking them without me. We'll be working on the kid barking thing because as you know, there are TONS of kids in Brooklyn, and we have young nephews we visit sometimes.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

glorybeecosta said:


> My 3 girls are co-dependent on me, and they do not take to strangers, and will not walk for anyone unless I am there. One is very shy, Bella somewhat, Cayenne is not afraid of the devil himself, but does not want to go with anyone. At lease I know no one could easily steal them


Glory I love this new picture of your girls, wow !


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## dogfriend (Oct 9, 2016)

UPDATE! 

Mabel is now 5 months and 1 week old. She has changed SO MUCH since I last posted. She is now much more outgoing and friendly. Last night we had a pretty rambunctious party and she was right there in the thick of it, sniffing legs, cuddling up beside pretty ladies (she now LOVES WOMEN) and tolerating patting. She is also such a funny show off. The minute we ask her to do a trick in front of an audience she does it better than she ever does in private. It's hilarious. We don't even have to use treats! 

She is still a little standoffish with strangers patting her on the street, but I think this is reasonable and fine. She is also still fairly touchy. As in, if someone happens to touch her when she doesn't see them coming for her she jumps five feet in the air.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Good to hear she is gaining confidence and enjoying life so much - she sounds great fun!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Awesome news! She's growing up and getting more and more happy exposure and learning what fun life can be. Good for you for doing such a great job socializing her. She sounds just a tad nervous but hey, I jump too if someone touches me when I don't see it coming. That's just a little startling, that's all. She sounds great!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Congratulations on such great progress. It sounds like your girl is coming into her own nicely.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

I think it is too early to tell.
My pup loves her people , but is very cautious with new people.Once she knows you she loves you to pieces.

I've accepted this about her and it used to bother me a lot. She will never let people just walk right up to her and pet her, maybe it is a smaller dog thing.
If you take your time with her is always the best way.

We did socialize her up the wazoo with other kids as well as dogs. She warms up to dogs faster than people.:dontknow:


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

when I just posted I must have missed the update.

Looks like she is coming along nicely and making loads of progress.


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## dogfriend (Oct 9, 2016)

Mabel continues to thrive! Thanks to all for your encouragement and well-wishes. She is extremely friendly and affectionate with people after meeting them 2-3 times, which is great fun for all her honorary "aunties" and "uncles". New folks she tolerates just fine, without fear, just without the desire to be touched on the head--elsewhere is tolerable. She's really sweet with kids.

She used to cower in a corner, but now she's a huge fan of the dog park. She plays and holds her own with much bigger dogs. She's such an athlete, she can out run them! Yesterday a lab fell down while running with her. She turned around and seeing him on the ground, treated him like a JUMP to be vaulted!

It's hard to believe how far she has come. There were days early on when I imagined we would have to give her to my in-laws in the country--as I feared she would never be able to handle NYC! Now she is SUCH a new yorker. Practically fearless--except for Halloween which was basically her worst nightmare. PUMPKINS WITH FACES? MONSTERS EVERYWHERE?

She is actually becoming a tad willful, and we're having to redouble our efforts to train her not to pull on the leash, and to obey our commands--even when she doesn't FEEL like it. 

The latest challenges is this: my husband LOVES IT when she jumps up on him as a greeting when he comes home. I think this is bad behavior, but he rewards it! How to convince him that this will not be cute forever??


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

mom2Zoe said:


> I think it is too early to tell.
> My pup loves her people , but is very cautious with new people.Once she knows you she loves you to pieces.
> 
> I've accepted this about her and it used to bother me a lot. She will never let people just walk right up to her and pet her, maybe it is a smaller dog thing.
> ...


None of mine will either, so I do not worry about someone stealing them, they have to really know you before they will allow you to touch them


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

dogfriend said:


> The latest challenges is this: my husband LOVES IT when she jumps up on him as a greeting when he comes home. I think this is bad behavior, but he rewards it! How to convince him that this will not be cute forever??


I find the combination of muddy paws and nice work clothes drives this point home for most people! :laugh:


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

For the jumping up, I would put it on cue. Then your husband, and he alone, can cue it! Ideally with a preparation stage - Ready=wait/sit/whatever, Steady=wait, GREET!=jump - so that you have a chance to stop her in the act if necessary. Or he might be equally happy if she brought him a present - poodles seem to take to the idea of greeting people with a toy or other gift very well, and a tug game would be a fun home coming ritual.


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