# Docking a dogs tail. Is it safe?



## kenzie14 (Feb 18, 2015)

I know this is a poodle forum and my question is regarding all breeds, but I don't know where else to ask this question.

Anyway, first, I want to know if you can paralyze a dog if its tail is not docked properly? I was told that if you cut the tail off on the fourth bone( I don't remember what its called) from the tip, its fine, but if the tail is part of the spin then it only makes sense that you can paralyze the dog if you don't know how to do it.

My second question is, is it illegal in the United States to dock the dogs tail if you are not a trained professional? Like can any regular person just cut the tail off a puppy, because he does't want to pay a vet to do it.

I don't have puppies, and even if I did, I wouldn't dock their tail. I was just interested in finding out the answers.

Thanks.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Done correctly, it is not a dangerous procedure. It MUST be done in the first 3-5 days of birth and the length is determined by it's breed standard. When a dog gets older it is an out and out amputation and can be much more complicated, especially in it healing! There are many breeders that do their own puppy docking. I've never heard of a dog being paralyzed by a tail docking, but have heard of docks where not enough skin was left and the tip of the tail becomes exposed and painfully sensitive to the dog.....it is important not to let an amature touch your dog...better yet get a Vet that is experienced in your chosen breed!


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## kenzie14 (Feb 18, 2015)

I don't show my dog because he is not pure, however, even if I get a pure one I'm not going to show it so I see no reason to dock the tail. But I am still wondering if it is illegal to do it without a license or something. I mean its cruel to put the puppy through that kind of pain, what if they don't do it correctly and have to cut it off a second time.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Part of why docking and dew claw removal is done on very young puppies is that their sensory systems are still really not mature (along with being blind and deaf). However that being said a vet or an experienced breeder who has knowledge of the breed standard and experience doing are the people who should be doing the procedures. It is not illegal in the US though for a non-licensed person to do it (e.g. a breeder). The breeders of both of my poodles did their docks and dew claws with no complications.


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

This can be a charged topic, and it's off to a rocky start because it sounds like your mind is already made up--so why are you even asking these questions? That said, I will answer them from my experience of helping to dock two litters of my own and 6 or 7 other litters belonging to other people (I help my friend). 

With the exception of a few states, anybody can dock tails in the U.S. It's really a rather simple procedure when done at the proper age (3 days) and is over quickly. Some people use vets, but I really hate the idea of dragging mom and pups to the vet at 3 days--they belong at home, warm and snug in the whelping box. Vets also have a reputation for not docking the proper length (they dock too short). It is over quickly and pups go back to nursing on mom like it never happened. My friend uses hemostats and has never had any issues.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Whether or not tail docking is illegal is dependent on where you live......it is legal to do in the U.S. in some states only by a Vet, and in some states can be done by the breeder. In Europe it is mostly illegal. Docked tails (even if not showing) here in the U.S. is the norm, but more and more breeders are offering puppies with undocked tails and dewclaws. It is a personal choice for some!


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## Eclipse (Apr 26, 2010)

Years ago I worked for a Standard Poodle breeder and she used to have another breeder that was experienced in docking tails and removing dews come to her house to do her litters. I was present a number of times for it. Each pup was measured several different ways to figure out tail dock length. Hemostats were used to pinch the tails off and they were cut behind it. There was almost always little to no bleeding, if there was a dab of quick stop was applied. Dews were removed with cat claw scissors and again, if there was any bleeding it was minimal and stopped with quick stop. Puppies might have squealed a little bit during the process, but probably was just as much related to being taken from the dam and handled. Once they were done, which was just a couple mins each they were back with Mom and almost immediately on a teat nursing, all forgotten.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Docking will not cause paralysis, but if a tail is docked to short, it can cause fecal incontinence. I know of a Schipperke who was docked too closely that had serious issues with that. 

I used to dock my Aussie pups' tails decades ago and just recently did my lambs' tails. I left the lambs' tails longer than most folks do since I am keeping these and not showing them. They have about 4-5 inches of tail vs the normal nothing. It's enough to cover their personal spots without getting gross. Their mothers were docked long before I got them and their tails are completely gone. It's a little creepy. I left the lambs something to wag and I am glad, it's cute.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Tail docking became illegal in the UK in 2007, except for dogs sold under licence as working dogs - only a vet is permitted to dock these. No docked dog can be shown in a KC show. (Ear cropping was banned over 100 years ago). Dew claw removal is legal, but must be done by a vet. There was huge opposition at the time from breeders and breed clubs of docked breeds, and many people found the new look odd for a few years, but now it is the docked dogs that look strange. The main arguments against docking were that it is an unnecessary procedure performed solely for aesthetic reasons, that it had the potential to cause pain at the time of docking and later (a few dogs continue to suffer discomfort all their lives), and that it has the potential to interfere with natural balance and communication, especially when tails are docked very short. An exception was made for working dogs because of the widespread anecdotal reports of tail injuries amongst hunting dogs, but I suspect the practice will gradually fade away.


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

I love Gunther and Gustav's long, curly 'gay' tails. They may be considered a 'deformity' and a fault by some in the poodle world, but I love how I can read their emotions through their tails - up tight and curly equals happy/content, half way down with a slight curl at the end means cautious or concentrating, down and uncurled means unhappy! I'm so glad that tail docking is illegal here, to me it would be like taking away a bit of my dogs personality.


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## thekarens (Apr 16, 2017)

We would have preferred a poodle with an undocked tail. If we ever get another one it won't be docked.


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## kenzie14 (Feb 18, 2015)

Verve said:


> This can be a charged topic, and it's off to a rocky start because it sounds like your mind is already made up--so why are you even asking these questions? That said, I will answer them from my experience of helping to dock two litters of my own and 6 or 7 other litters belonging to other people (I help my friend).



Thank you for answering my question. 

I asked this question because I heard about a breeder who had done the docking and ear cropping themselves. From what I understood, this was the first time they had ever done it. And they had done one of the puppies ears too short and the other one had one ear shorter then the other so they had to do it again. I asked about the tail because I thought it was more dangerous then the ears.

I am sorry if I seemed rude. I was just certain that they could hurt the puppies. Thank you again.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Oh, no! Ears definitely need to be done by a vet! Not just any vet, either. There are many that just don't have the skill to do a nice job. My first Dobe was docked, then later cropped by a nice vet. Nyx's tail was too long (probably why I like a long dock now) and his ears were, well, not what I was picturing. Later, I worked for a vet that specialized in ear crops. There is an art to it. Honestly, I like the (properly) cropped ears, but I would never do it to one of mine again. Same with tails and even dewclaws. I now prefer my dogs all natural. 
I do like prick ears on my working dogs. If my fanasty ever comes true, I could be tempted to get a Beauceron and tape the ears upright, but not crop them. I do know that goes against breed standard which is either cropped/upright or left natural and floppy. 
The only dogs I have now that are cosmetically altered are my poodles. All my herders are fully tailed, natural eared, and have all their toes. 
Home cropping - that's a huge Nope, and again, I have docked/removed dewclaws on my own dogs and still dock my own lambs. 

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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Whoever thinks a docked tail isn't expressive is dead wrong. Or that a dog with a docked tail can't communicate or balance himself is misinformed. I'm sorry but really truly. My Doberman had a docked tail. Dobermans are typically docked at the 2nd joint. My two poodles have docked tails. They have all been exceedingly expressive and communicative. I love it when I ask them a question and they look up at me so earnestly and their little puff balls go back and forth so cutely and quickly. ping, ping, ping. And my Doberman was perfectly balanced and very athletic..._very._ He couldn't have done the sports he did if he weren't. My poodles are perfectly capable of good balance and athleticism and they have docked tails. My Dobe's tail was one of the things I loved and missed about him when he died. And that's because it was so very expressive. I even wrote this way back then.

That Dober Tail

A mile a minute it would go,
That Dober stub of a tail,
It didn’t sway in easy flow,
But things stayed on the table.

How expressive, that Dober tail,
Inside his mind I’d know,
Humor abounded without fail,
Back and forth, that Dober tail,
Wish he didn’t go.


It should definitely be done by an experienced breeder...experienced in doing this correctly or a vet, also experienced in doing it_ correctly. _Ears are also not done by just any vet, but vets who_ specialize _in this procedure. When my Dobe was cropped, his breeder said the puppies bounced around, played, crashed into each other, climbed on each other's heads, clawed and never did she hear a wince. They had their little cup things on their heads to hold their ears against them. She said when she cleaned them with a cotton ball, they leaned into it. If anything, they itched a little bit. This was right after the crop...when they came home. They're anesthetized for this surgery and it's really not such a big deal. And a docked tail is really truly not a big deal if done correctly. 

I've had breeds with long, natural tails and two breeds with docked. I have found no difference in their ability to communicate or express themselves or a low level of personality. lol. So, to say that only long tails give dogs balance or allow dogs to express themselves or communicate is not correct. My dogs have an abundance of personality. It was not taken away by docking their tails. I guess they must have been given an extra dose of personality in the first place if some of it was taken away. :act-up:


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

kenzie14 said:


> I know this is a poodle forum and my question is regarding all breeds, but I don't know where else to ask this question.
> 
> Anyway, first, I want to know if you can paralyze a dog if its tail is not docked properly? I was told that if you cut the tail off on the fourth bone( I don't remember what its called) from the tip, its fine, but if the tail is part of the spin then it only makes sense that you can paralyze the dog if you don't know how to do it.
> 
> ...


Tails should only be docked when puppies are a few days old, and only by a professional who knows what they're doing. It can be very safe, but again, it should only be done by a professional. If tails are not docked early on, then it's best to leave the tail long. MANY people like the longer tails on Poodles.


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

PB, I was only referring to my own dogs in terms of personality because they have such long curly tails and I love the way that unlike straight or docked tails they have a whole range of positions - from super tight curly (like a cumberland sausage!) and then gradually through the different stages of 'unrolling' - like a fruit winder! I also love how when they are concentrating really hard their tails kind of half unwind but if I go to gently push their tail at the base, then they wind right back up! I couldn't imagine my two without their long cumberland sausage tails!
Any way, no offence meant to other doggy's tails/personality :smile:
Gosh, I've just noticed I'm using a lot of food references here, can you guess I'm on a diet at the moment....?!!:starving:


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I would die for a good German sausage and some sauerkraut. I'm on a diet too. :hungry: :crying:

Thanks for elaborating so I get it now.


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I would die for a good German sausage and some sauerkraut. I'm on a diet too. :hungry: :crying:
> 
> Thanks for elaborating so I get it now.


We always have a jar of sauerkraut in the fridge in our house, my husband has it with everything. He also likes rollmops :yuck:
Gunther and Gustav also LOVE sauerkraut - it must be the German in them!
Any way this thread seems to have digressed from tails to cabbage, so I'll shut up now.


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## Marcie (Aug 2, 2011)

I thought the trend now was not docking at all since it was considered inhumane. I like the look of a long tail myself, with the beautiful cascade of hair.


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## Mia42 (Sep 5, 2016)

fjm said:


> . . . An exception was made for working dogs because of the widespread anecdotal reports of tail injuries amongst hunting dogs, but I suspect the practice will gradually fade away.


The best reason that I have heard of for docking:

Heelers/Aussies get their tails docked when working with pigs because the pigs will bite their tails to discourage the dogs from trying to herd them. The idea of anything living getting inside a pig's mouth kind of scares me.

The docking of protection type dogs (like Dobermans) so there is no tail to grab sounds logical also, but there are so few that are actually working dogs rather than pets.

I think the tail injuries for hunting dogs would be from someone grabbing the tail to pull the dog out of a hole in the ground or a shrubbery that it had run into.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Hunting dog tail injuries are more along the line of 'happy tail' injuries. The tip gets broken open and bleeds badly. It's difficult, sometimes impossible, to treat and amputation is required since every time they wag the tip breaks open again causing bleeding (everywhere! It sprays when they wag) and pain. I deal with happy tail on one of my dogs at times. Difficult to bandage and uncomfortable (for him) to treat. It's only happened twice in his 6 years, but took weeks to heal. Amputation is one of the options suggested by my vets, but there are issues with healing after amputating as well. Dante is a ******, normally not a docked breed, but his tail is unusually long. 

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## King Louie (May 27, 2016)

Mia42 said:


> fjm said:
> 
> 
> > . . . An exception was made for working dogs because of the widespread anecdotal reports of tail injuries amongst hunting dogs, but I suspect the practice will gradually fade away.
> ...


I don't know how docking a protection dog like a Rottweiler or Doberman so that no one will grab their tail sounds logical. German Shepards are the most common police dogs and they have tails I've never seen someone grab their tails. Pitbulls are a feared breed and they have tails and they still look mean. I've never seen or heard of someone grabbing a tail that would be the quickest way to have their hand or arm torn off imo. Docking can be done by breeders most prefer to do it themselves I for do all my docking myself I used to go to the vet but I would always have problems 1. Size would be off 2. Moms have to lick the puppies to stimulate them to potty while they are doing all that licking they're bothering the stitches, sometimes pulling them out which can cause infections. I no longer like the cutting or clamping method for docking tails I prefer the painless way which is banding never had a problem mom can lick all she wants and sizes always comes out perfect. I no longer dock Rottweilers though because studies have shown docking can stunt their growth I also don't remove front dew claws unless the placement seems like it can be a issue later for the dog. On my poodles and longhair dachshunds I do remove dew claws because people forget they are there and won't remember to trim them or while grooming they'll get caught in clippers or worst case scenario they get cut off with scissors. Ear cropping should be done by a vet but I know some very successful American Bully breeders that crop the ears of their puppies theirselves and they always turn out perfect.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

* I no longer dock Rottweilers though because studies have shown docking can stunt their growth *

I would love to see the research on this, please. I have never heard of this. I'm curious as to how it can stunt growth. 
Thanks


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

I worked with vets through high school and college.One specialized in ear crops. People would drive from hundreds of miles away to have him do their crops. It was intense work; very precise. To this vet, it was very much a balance of veterinary medicine and art. Nothing irritated him more than to have clients who did not follow through with after care. One time he kept two dobie pups as payment. We had to do all the after care until he sold them. Ugh, it was a lot of work, especially in a kennel setting. The pups never seemed to be in pain, just itchy. Now, tail docking done at three days was simple and quick.The faster the pup was back with it's mom the quicker it settled back down. We did have a couple of dogs that were late docks. The vet tried to talk the owners out of doing it. The dogs had to be fully anesthetized, and stitched up. The worst case we ever had was a Great Dane that chronically split it's tail open and it had bad infections. After multiple treatments, the decision was made to dock the tail. It had to be pretty short to get past the point where the dog kept splitting it open. The docking was a success, thank goodness.


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