# Gentle Leader not so gentle



## Tyler (Mar 9, 2009)

*Bummer...*

... too bad about that nose...

I started using prong collars at the urging of an agility coach. At first, it looked like a horrible tool of torture. But I put it on myself and gave it a few yanks, and all it really does is turn the skin.
It stopped Alex's incessant pulling immediately. In fact we don't even need it anymore.


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## Weston (Mar 12, 2009)

I tried the gentle leader for our 3 year old male, although I read that eventually our dog would get use to it, he never actually did and we had to give up on it. However while he still pulls me along sometimes, if Im feeling particularly ornery, I get very commanding, and tell him to heal, and give gentle tugs on the lead to keep him at my side. Every now and then I tell him "ok" and he knows that means he can go to the end of the lead and start sniffing stuff again and obviously pulling on my arm again.

So, how did I eventually get Weston to start healing when I command it? persistance and tugging slightly on the lead. Yes, he used to be one of the worst pullers, but I attached the lead around my waist, and everytime he tugged, I stopped, backed up about 6 paces or so (which really ****ed him off when he wants to keep up with his half sister), and then start out again. This maybe took about a month of regular walks doing this before he finally got it in his brain that he was to stay close to me on the heal and stop tugging my arm unless I told him "ok".

Anyway, with all the time that we attempted to use it, it didn't ever make a mark on westons nose.

Good Luck,


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## P Nalitt (Mar 3, 2009)

Thanks for the suggestions .......I'll keep working on it Ha!


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## Weston (Mar 12, 2009)

Really, with anything dog training related, we're finding out over here with our two precious standards that it's just about persistance, incistance, repetition and consistancy. (Of course I struggle with oddball behaviors that I can't figure out myself like Westons insistance to chase dogs 30 feet away from us at the dog park but... the walking, sitting, staying, healing stuff is easy to do with persistance, incistance, repetition and consistancy in my opinion.

Doing the same things over and over again and doing them the exact same way each time. Obviously not doing things until your poo is bored out of his skull and wants to take the lead and hang himself, and of course treats work wonders.

Some dogs are quicker to learn and more accepting to learn than are others, case in point, Weston, the 3 year old intact standar male, is very very fast to learn, sit, standup, ask for it, lie down, shake hands, etc were all learned by him in about 5 attempts using some turkey treats (real turkey), where as his half sister (they share the same mother) is a right lemon about learning anything new regardless of any treats that might be offered. She's all into coming into the kitchen to see what her parents are doing in there and see if there are any free handouts, but when it comes down to asking her to perform some action to get the treat, she just stands or sits there staring at you as if to say "there aint no way in hades that Im going to beg for that turkey", and if her other parent didn't offer her a treat for doing nothing when he wants her to do something, it might ber a bit quicker to train her.

Anyway, persistance, consistancy, repetition, and try to make it fun if possible.

Good luck,


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

My standard is still a baby and hasn't started pulling yet!

However, I also have a 2 year old German Shepherd. I also tried the gentle leader on her and it did make the same kind of mark on her nose. She did grow hair back and you can't even tell anymore!

I think no matter what training route you use the important thing is to be consistent with it and make sure to praise and reward. I often see people yelling at their dogs to do something and when the dog finally does forgetting to reward! I just use a simple martingale collar and leash.










Also it would help to find out WHY your dog is pulling. Generally dogs pull because obviously they want to get somewhere and they want to get there right now! You can convince them that pulling doesn't get them where they want to go. The second the dog pulls immediately turn and start walking the other way if they pull going that way do it again. Make them learn that pulling means you don't actually go anywhere and walking nicely leads to getting to go somewhere and that in itself can be the reward! 

Sometimes they just pull because of excitement. I have found that if I put on Pandora's leash and collar before a walk and then get a drink maybe eat a sandwich and wait until she is calm before going out that she's much calmer on the walk.

Not sure if that helps much!


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## starkeeper (Jan 27, 2009)

Star is six months and pulls like a crazy woman!

I was thinking of getting a gentle leader for her....guess I won't.

I have a prong collar from my previous miniature poodle that is a couple links too small for her (can't find them since I trained that dog 13 years ago!). The prong collar worked so well with the previous dog, I am a fan.

Star's hair is quite long in the puppy cut and I think her hair will get snarled up in a prong collar anyway.

My maltese used yet another harness for pulling.....the Sensible Harness.


http://www.softouchconcepts.com/products/sense_ible_harness.html
I don't like that one though!

Sigh.


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## maddiek (Nov 3, 2008)

I used the prong collar also. I only had to use it one time and he got the message. No more problems.


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## P Nalitt (Mar 3, 2009)

Thanks, for all the suggestions!!!
We actually had a pretty good walk today. I let Savanna & Vegas play today right before the walk, then my husband actually put on a harness that goes around the body sort of. Anyway, Vegas had it on a little bit before the walk to get used to it. He is very " treat" motivated so we always reward with treats.
Neither one of them pull bad when I walk them separately but together it becomes a competition of who is leading. I am constantly working on neither of them leading, but walking beside me equally so that they are don't try to out do each other. 
I agree with being consistent, and finding what is going to work with that individual dog. 
I love the black and white collar. I don't care if it helps with pulling or not but I have to have that collar. Tomorrow Vegas turns 1 so that will be one of his gifts we went shopping today for toys and treats. 
Also, VERY glad to hear that the hair grows back!!!!!!

Here's the picture from the original post:


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Since the Gentle leader is making marks on his face, I agree that you shouldn't use it. The last thing you want is a constant irritated mark on the muzzle and the chance that hair may not grow back. 

I have never used a prong collar but Ive heard great feed back about how they work as well. Maybe try the prong collar if the harness begins to fail. 

I have found that getting a thin choke collar works well but it needs to fit properly in order to work correctly. If you decide to use a regular choke collar you want it to fit fairly snug. You want it snug while getting over the head/ears and it should leave you with a 2 inch pull when you retract the collar back when its at the top of the neck. If you keep it at the top of the neck, under the jaw, you should have maximum control. The only problem is more often then not, people get a choke collar thats too big and thats why it doesn't work well. 

Anyhow, I hope the new harness you bought continues to work well and you don't need to search for another training collar.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Love that collar Aidan!


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

For those interested in that specific collar here is where it's from:

http://www.pinkpuppydesigns.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=28

It's a bit expensive for a martingale, but I do love the snap around martingales rather than the ones that go over the head. I have one of the cheaper ones from petco but some of those designs are pretty cute!


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## creativeparti (Mar 9, 2009)

http://www.companyofanimals.co.uk/halti.php

you could try a halti i have used one on my rottie for years and she has never got anything like that on her nose i like them over the gentle leader as they dont put as much pressre on the top of the nose 

they losen up rmore than a gentle leader i will get one for my poodle pup as well


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## starkeeper (Jan 27, 2009)

*I picked up this harness for Star yesterday*

https://www.premier.com/store/Products.aspx?cid=1&pid=6

The Premier Easy Walk harness. I got one at Petsmart for 24.99

OMG! What a difference.

It worked immediately. Well. Wow.

I like it more than the prong collars I have used.

Wow.


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