# Goldendoodle "breeder"



## Jkpoodle (Dec 14, 2021)

Hi, guys! I signed up just to vent about this because my family thinks it's good business( It's NOT!). 
So, a friend's friend (sorry I'm not posting the person's name due to privacy). Used to live in Illinois, now lives in Virginia, more about that later. Goldendoodle breeder, GB for short. At first, I heard about them and I thought "ok, they take good care of their dogs." Wrong. Recently, my friend was talking to GB's mother, with who she is a good friend, and the subject of GB's business came up. She said that the vet that works for them, said that it was ok to breed females on first heat and 10 TIMES AFTER THAT! 10 TIMES! So I did some more talking, and turns out they pay local farms to have pregnant females run around their farms until they give birth, then the puppies are trained from birth by professional trainers and are sold for... $30,000 DOLLARS! On their website they have pics of holding the pups and snuggling with them, but, that's the only time they come in contact with the pups. The pups are disproportionate, horrible bites, and if they don't sell them after they are cute, they give them away for free. I feel this is unloving, cold, and downright appalling. Now, I have nothing against doodles. I would never own or breed them myself and I'd prefer other people not to, but the biggest red flag for me was, the reason they moved away from Illinois was they had more dogs than the legal limit. They moved to Virginia solely to EXPAND their business and have more breeding dogs. But even more, a childhood friend of mine, ( who was going to get a poodle pup from my dog). Was contacted by them, again, good friends, and they said, (I'm paraphrasing), " don't get a purebred poodle when you can get a Goldendoodle for FREE from us and... Breed it 10 times, sell the pups for 10,000 dollars, and not have to deal with 'poodle snobs'" I can't believe it, I was so excited to have a friend with one of Ginger, my dog's pups and watch her have pups of her own. We were already telling people that we had someone interested in that particular pup, and turning them down. Everything turned out ok, Good owner for pup and all. Any thoughts?


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Wow how awful.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Report a puppy mill | The Humane Society of the United States


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Sounds like a pyramid scheme along with everything else.


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## EJStevenP (Oct 27, 2021)

$30,000?? For a doodle?? Say what????


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Ranting like this is something we have been pretty saturated by and it doesn't change anything. I'm with Rose n Poos. Just complaining is pretty meaningless. Doing something hopefully could put them out of business. BTW Virginia also has laws about how many dogs a breeder can have 9not more than 50). VA - Dogs - Consolidated Dog Laws | Animal Legal & Historical Center Refer to this section. *§ 3.2-6507.2. Commercial dog breeding; requirements *


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## Jkpoodle (Dec 14, 2021)

lily cd re said:


> Ranting like this is something we have been pretty saturated by and it doesn't change anything. I'm with Rose n Poos. Just complaining is pretty meaningless. Doing something hopefully could put them out of business. BTW Virginia also has laws about how many dogs a breeder can have 9not more than 50). VA - Dogs - Consolidated Dog Laws | Animal Legal & Historical Center Refer to this section. *§ 3.2-6507.2. Commercial dog breeding; requirements *


Yeah, I hate complaining about it. They are USDA registered breeders so they have inspections and all. they groom them and all but it just feels cold and unloving to me. I prefer pups raised in home settings


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Having a USDA registration doesn't mean they aren't running a puppy mill or that they shouldn't be inspected. However I can't report since I don't know who they are. Only you can do that and I hope you will. Otherwise just complaining here seems pretty much just trolling us and making people here who would want to report so an investigation can be done frustrated.


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## Deere (Jun 25, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> Report a puppy mill | The Humane Society of the United States


I agree contact the animal shelter(Humane Society) and contact the Dept of Agriculture (if she's breeding alot of dogs she'll be registered with them)for the state the kennel is in and the area where her kennel is located and report, report, report then follow up!


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## Nana06 (Oct 18, 2021)

I agree.... This is a terrible read and makes us all feel helpless. You state that you bred Ginger. Hence, I assume (or perhaps hope) that you are a breeder yourself. If you are, I really do think you have a professional (in addition to moral) responsibility to report what is going on. You also state that the puppies are disproportionate and bite (?), did you not explain that to your friend before they got one of these puppies? This is awful all around and thinking about these poor bitches forced to produce 10 litters break my heart thinking of their mental and physical health.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

So you're breeding your own poodle. What health tests do you do?


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## Jkpoodle (Dec 14, 2021)

Dianaleez said:


> So you're breeding your own poodle. What health tests do you do?


Hip dysplasia, retinal atrophy, Neonatal Encephalopathy with Seizures, etc. My mother's family bred toy poodles when she was little, so we have some experience.


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## Jkpoodle (Dec 14, 2021)

Nana06 said:


> I agree.... This is a terrible read and makes us all feel helpless. You state that you bred Ginger. Hence, I assume (or perhaps hope) that you are a breeder yourself. If you are, I really do think you have a professional (in addition to moral) responsibility to report what is going on. You also state that the puppies are disproportionate and bite (?), did you not explain that to your friend before they got one of these puppies? This is awful all around and thinking about these poor bitches forced to produce 10 litters break my heart thinking of their mental and physical health.


Yes, I tried to but, her family has struggled with money all her life so this seemed like a way out. Happy that she didn't get a pup from me because she was a small miniature and she wanted to breed back to a Goldendoodle.


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## Jkpoodle (Dec 14, 2021)

lily cd re said:


> Ranting like this is something we have been pretty saturated by and it doesn't change anything. I'm with Rose n Poos. Just complaining is pretty meaningless. Doing something hopefully could put them out of business. BTW Virginia also has laws about how many dogs a breeder can have 9not more than 50). VA - Dogs - Consolidated Dog Laws | Animal Legal & Historical Center Refer to this section. *§ 3.2-6507.2. Commercial dog breeding; requirements *


Yeah, they apply to all of those except they breed males, and pretty sure they have more than 50 breeding dogs, might be wrong, they get rid of all the retired females. Although they have so many available pups that it would make me think that they have a lot of females.


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## Jkpoodle (Dec 14, 2021)

I counted 54 currently available puppies on their website.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Report a puppy mill | The Humane Society of the United States


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Rose n Poos said:


> Report a puppy mill | The Humane Society of the United States


Thanks for this link, Rose. I clicked on the state laws for Virginia and can see why such large-scale operations flourish there.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

P.S. Not going to name names, but if this is the business I think it is, it’s a nightmare in so many ways. 

The website is all puppies dolled up in cute bows, not a dam or sire in sight. The marketing is _slick_. The allergy jargon is nonsensical. And the health guarantee.... Well, it’s jaw-dropping.

But perhaps most upsetting are the BBB complaints: people paying obscene amounts of money for the “certified” training package and expecting to receive a fully mature dog-puppy-robot rather than a perfectly normal puppy who’s _just entered adolescence_. Oh, and apparently all puppies are trained with a prong collar.

💔

Too many people have no idea what an ethical breeder looks like or how to begin finding one. So, as a community, let’s keep tearing down those “poodle snob” stereotypes the OP mentioned, and be a warm and welcoming place for folks who want to learn. We may not be directly helping the dogs who’ve already fallen victim to these greeders, but I believe we’re still a part of the solution.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Why are we helping to hide these people specifically and these situations generally from getting scrutinized by not naming names? I don't know who they are since I don't particularly have time to sleuth that out just now, but apparently there are some members who do know who they are and also probably members who know of similar situations that could benefit from closer examination.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

My apologies for speculating aloud. There is one member (the OP) who knows who this business is. They’ve chosen not to name it and I’m not going to push them on that. 

But I think we do a good job of steering people away from doodles, generally, on Poodle Forum, as well as high-volume breeders and brokers, period.


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## X skully X (Nov 21, 2021)

I saw a listing this week for doodles for 30,000$ They even wrote (thirty thousand) just so people didn’t think it was a mistake in the listing LOL. Too crazy. As a person who has NEVER owned a purebred dog until a few weeks ago I see nothing wrong with having a “doodle” a mutt is a mutt. Some of the best dogs I’ve met are mutts. Now trying to sell a mutt as a designer dog and asking anything over 200$ as an adoption fee just doesn’t make any sense to me. Especially when breeders work so hard to preserve a purebred line. That is just my opinion though.


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

I just don't understand on what planet someone thinks $30k is appropriate to spend on a pet dog. Residential training programs for dogs are expensive, but not _that _expensive. Maybe I missed it, but are these doodles being marketed as service dogs? If not I have a hard time even being sympathetic to the purchasers (of course I have a wealth of sympathy for the dogs themselves). Heck even if they were marketed as trained service dogs it's ridiculous for someone to buy one without evidence of fitness for purpose.

Who are these people buying these dogs? I have a beautiful bridge to sell them and some extremely long term investment opportunities...


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I can imagine spending $30k on a highly trained dog capable of performing very specialized tasks: drug sniffing, search and rescue, mobility assistance, and so forth. It takes a lot of training hours to get a dog performing well, not all dogs will graduate from training, and the number of trainers with the skills & experience to train these dogs is not infinite. (Also let's not forget the amount of volunteer labor and cash donations that help keep service dogs affordable in many programs.)

I don't expect all working dogs to come from AKC registered lines. Border collies weren't registered for years, and the working line collie folks still want nothing to do with conformation showing. However, wanting no truck with AKC conformation shows certainly doesn't mean working collie folks are carelessly pairing dogs!

My concern with so many doodle breeders is that the high price of the dogs is unrelated to either the quality of the training a dog receives or the selectivity of the breeding program the dog came out of. Selling puppies as trained service dogs is dishonest; there is simply no way the puppy is mature enough to have settled into the role. Selling unscreened puppies as service dog prospects is equally dishonest. I would go a step further and call it predatory. Someone who needs a service dog is dealing with enough other social and financial issues that gouging them on the price of a puppy is truly evil.


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## saralls (Apr 26, 2010)

Jkpoodle said:


> Hi, guys! I signed up just to vent about this because my family thinks it's good business( It's NOT!).
> So, a friend's friend (sorry I'm not posting the person's name due to privacy). Used to live in Illinois, now lives in Virginia, more about that later. Goldendoodle breeder, GB for short. At first, I heard about them and I thought "ok, they take good care of their dogs." Wrong. Recently, my friend was talking to GB's mother, with who she is a good friend, and the subject of GB's business came up. She said that the vet that works for them, said that it was ok to breed females on first heat and 10 TIMES AFTER THAT! 10 TIMES! So I did some more talking, and turns out they pay local farms to have pregnant females run around their farms until they give birth, then the puppies are trained from birth by professional trainers and are sold for... $30,000 DOLLARS! On their website they have pics of holding the pups and snuggling with them, but, that's the only time they come in contact with the pups. The pups are disproportionate, horrible bites, and if they don't sell them after they are cute, they give them away for free. I feel this is unloving, cold, and downright appalling. Now, I have nothing against doodles. I would never own or breed them myself and I'd prefer other people not to, but the biggest red flag for me was, the reason they moved away from Illinois was they had more dogs than the legal limit. They moved to Virginia solely to EXPAND their business and have more breeding dogs. But even more, a childhood friend of mine, ( who was going to get a poodle pup from my dog). Was contacted by them, again, good friends, and they said, (I'm paraphrasing), " don't get a purebred poodle when you can get a Goldendoodle for FREE from us and... Breed it 10 times, sell the pups for 10,000 dollars, and not have to deal with 'poodle snobs'" I can't believe it, I was so excited to have a friend with one of Ginger, my dog's pups and watch her have pups of her own. We were already telling people that we had someone interested in that particular pup, and turning them down. Everything turned out ok, Good owner for pup and all. Any thoughts?


A friend just posted this story on Facebook. They are having a Christmas sale so the puppy is only $15K. Someone from Rhode Island is ready to pick and pay for a puppy. SMH


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

Re the question, "why would someone pay $30k for a mutt" ... actually it's based on proven psychological principles of "expensive = better."

Also, people are, well, stupid when they see something they want. 

You may not remember when Arby's tried to compete with McDonald's new "quarter pounder" by offering a "one-third pounder." People did not stop to do the math to realize that 1/3 of a pound is LARGER than 1/4 pound and the marketing plan failed.









The Impact of Human Psychology on Product Pricing


Product pricing is one of the most difficult aspects of product management. Keep reading for ideas on how to price your product.




www.productplan.com


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## Jkpoodle (Dec 14, 2021)

lily cd re said:


> Why are we helping to hide these people specifically and these situations generally from getting scrutinized by not naming names? I don't know who they are since I don't particularly have time to sleuth that out just now, but apparently there are some members who do know who they are and also probably members who know of similar situations that could benefit from closer examination.


Okay, I see what you are saying now so I am posting the website. Doodle Puppies for Sale | Pride and Prejudoodles | Hypoallergenic, Trained and Untrained. you can look on their website for yourself and see if you would like to say anything about it.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

This is a link to a doodle forum about this business.
Breeder review? - Forum - Doodle Kisses


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Pride and Prejudoodles, LLC | Better Business Bureau® Profile


BBB accredited since 6/6/2022. Dog Breeders in Forest, VA. See BBB rating, reviews, complaints, request a quote & more.




www.bbb.org





they apparently use “We were sent a link to a wire prong collar that P&P trains with and instructed to use that as "correction".”

“We have a Customer Service team dedicated to customer support Monday-Saturday for those inquiring, going through adoption, and those in need of post-take home care.” I can’t imagine an good breeder that would need a “customer service team”. Who has that many puppies that they would need this?


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I love the internet! I decided to follow up on my internal questions about their "certified professional trainers". My first question, still unanswered is "certified by what entity?".

Next I found a Linkedin profile on one of the trainers which I'll come back to.

Then I found this:
Dog Breeder Marketing – Hurt, VA, Dog Breeding Case Study (postcardmania.com)



These lines caught my attention

...they train their puppies into perfectly-behaved dogs using their advanced, *round-the-clock trainer services. *


The *huge photo of an adorable puppy* instantly grabs attention.
The headline hints at the possibility of* having a puppy minus any hassle* (amazing!).
You can see there’s *limited availability* for these cute trained dogs, so better keep reading the postcard!
Pride & Prejudoodles never before found a mailing list that would effectively target their ideal prospects for *their business’s marketing.* So, we helped them get not one but *3 mailing lists that targeted the top 1% of America’s income bracket *so they ONLY mailed their postcards to people who could afford t*heir high-end dog breeding and training services.*

*The Results*


> Our dogs DID sell out — we had to actually hire additional trainers so we could* increase our output.*


Back to the training/trainers.

This is part of the Linkedin profile of one

...Certified Dog Trainer with practical experience in Animal Handling, Animal Training, and Animal Behavior. Strong administrative professional with a Bachelor of Science - BS focused in Zoology/Animal Biology from Liberty University.

*Experience*

*Dog Trainer*
*Pride and Prejudoodles*
Apr 2018 - Present3 years 9 months
*Cashier Customer Service*
*Michaels*
2017 - Present4 years
Paramus NJ


Not only is the certification not specified but there's no indication of how many dogs the "trainer" keeps at one time, if more than one. The training period is 3-5 months with prices, including the dog, from $16,000 +/- to $21,000 +/-.

I wonder what the trainer's portion of that amount is.

IMO, this sounds like a profitable business, which has little to do with breeding quality, well bred dogs.

Almost forgot, from their own website:

_For puppies without training, check with our *partner breeders* for their pricing_


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## EJStevenP (Oct 27, 2021)

That place is so shady!!! No details on the parents even though they claim to have spent HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS in their "breeding program". If you are so proud of it why wouldn't you show off those parents? The website is way too slick and they describe the dogs like a car. Specifications? Really??? It's a DOG! And if I'm reading this correctly....you don't even get your dog until it is 4-5 months old? I'll be the first to agree that puppy hood is a pain in the you know what but it is still the time to bond with YOUR PUPPY. And not just goldendoodles but let's throw some cockapoos and labradoodles in there too. And under the FAQ's the explanation of shedding cracks me up. You want to know what the best non-shedding dog is? How about A POODLE. I'm preaching to the choir here but good heavens this is just too much. 

Oh and doodles are not breeds no matter what a fancy website says. But wait they have a canine geneticist on staff! Ugh. Just ugh all around.


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