# Looking for a breeder



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Check out PF member Arreau who is in Canada (Ontario) and breeds beautiful reds and apricots.


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

I get this message when trying to search that name. Invalid User specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator.
Any other way to find him/her?
Edit: Nevermind. I unchecked the exact name box and found the user arreaustandardpoodle

Still open to any and all good breeders in the area.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

abrahamx said:


> I get this message when trying to search that name. Invalid User specified. I*f you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator.
> *
> Any other way to find him/her?



Well I didn't follow any link! But here is one to her member profile. https://www.poodleforum.com/807-arreaustandardpoodle.html


----------



## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Is the Pittsburgh area okay? There’s Farley’s D. In my first obedience class someone had a gorgeous spoo from Farley’s D. They specialize in red and apricot. 



There’s a small group of breeders specializing in reds and apricots who show and win in AKC conformation trials. They know each other and work together so if you contact one and they don’t have puppies they will probably know which of them does have puppies.


----------



## scooterscout99 (Dec 3, 2015)

Missouri is a little further but there are puppies on the ground. Health tested and titled parents.


----------



## Beaches1 (Jul 9, 2017)

Arreau’s poodles are fantastic - gorgeous, perfect size and personality plus. they are home raised..... Cherie has Facebook pages and website under the same name.


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

I am highly considering one of the females. Are these your dogs? I may call shortly. Would like to reserve one if possible. Still have questions of course.


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

Beaches1 said:


> Arreau’s poodles are fantastic - gorgeous, perfect size and personality plus. they are home raised..... Cherie has Facebook pages and website under the same name.


Nothing mentioned about puppies on their website. Must not have any currently? Nice looking dogs for sure. Hoping to get a pup before winter sets in though.


----------



## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Since you are color specific and there is nothing wrong with that, I would contact all of the breeders mentioned so far see when breedings are planned. Farley’s in Pittsburgh announced a successful match recently. I would love a red from him, Arreau or NOLA in New Orleans.


----------



## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

If you want to drive to New Orleans you have NOLA Standards. 


I also suggest you contact some of these breeders as they may have connections.


----------



## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

If you are a facebook user search for Cherie Ambeault Perks.....it will also say Harmony Contracting, she is part owner of that. This will take you to Cherie's facebook page where you can put in a friend request or send her a PM.

I know she will be having a couple more breedings this fall, if all works out as planned.

If I were looking for a red/apricot spoo I would be talking to Cherie!

Good luck!


----------



## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

listed at poodlesonline dot com in illinois: sunset maple poodles. cannot vouch for them personally. but puppies seem to be available per their website. one curious point: lots of testing shown, but no titles for their dogs. seems they don't show?


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

you guys know these websites better than I do. I cant make heads or tails from some of these sites. To me I can not tell there are any pups available from this place(sunset). It says stuff about getting on a wait list for $250 but I dont want to do that if I dont even know when they will be ready. for now I would rather find someone with a pup currently available. I will contact them for further info though.


----------



## EVpoodle (Sep 25, 2018)

So, breeders, do you show if they have puppies available or not so if you are interested just email of facebook them. 
Do be careful with waiting lists. 
Some breeders I have come across will have a non-refundable deposit that if there are no puppies that fit your description you will not get your money back. And you get put on the bottom of the waiting list for the next litter.


----------



## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

Arreau and NOLA for reds/apricots, but if you’re flexible on color, the breeder of my pup, Spice, ticks every “good breeder” box there is, and she’s in Indiana. I drove there from Texas to pick up my puppy and he was worth every mile!


----------



## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

The best idea is to find a breeder you like and then CONTACT THEM. If you can’t take that effort chances are you’ll end up with a puppy from a poor breeder.


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

yep, I have contacted just about every breeder mentioned here and then some. was/am just looking for suggestions. Only sunset maple has pups. Nola is way to far. arreau is breeding two blacks with red in them in a few months but no gurentee of a red so I dont think I want to tie up my money hoping. Farley will have some in 9 months. Partriot is not breeding till October. Its pretty rare I have 2k+ to spare so I doubt I'll have the cash in 9 months. Stuck with going with sunset(which seems to have good dogs but some have expressed reservations) or go with a different color. Maybe I'll start looking farther out.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Here are what I would keep as my priorities in ranked order (based on the things that have been mentioned):

1. Background health and temperament of parents are tied (must have evidence of such through OFA/CHIC and through some sort of titles in pedigrees (conformation and/or companion events);

2. Clear evidence of good puppy rearing practices (almost tied for first and a means of assuring good puppy temperament) including having puppies getting used to grooming and having lots of people meeting puppies;

3. Date puppy would be available (a great puppy is worth waiting for);


4. Color of puppy.

OP since you mentioned money, The purchase price of a puppy is a small part of the expenses of keeping a dog. Keep the purchase money you have in a dedicated, unraidable puppy/dog fund and add to it while you wait for a pup. In addition to purchase price there is feeding, vet care (routine and emergency fund), training and GROOMING (somewhat a unique to poodles expense).


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

I do know about expenses. I have owned almost a dozen dogs and currently have a golden doodle. Up keep is not a problem(we have already spent over 2k on vet bills this year with our hip displysia doodle). Purchase price is. I have never had to put up 2k for any vet or grooming costs. so that is not the problem. the 2k for purchase may or may not be there. that aside, the sunset place I am considering says all pups are registered akc which means the mom and dad must be(which was one concern you guys had) they say preliminary x rays showed good hips but the one dog(dad) is only 18 months so has not had 2 year xrays yet and the mom was due just as she went into heat so they claim the last set of xrays will be done in a few weeks. they are all extensively health tested and they do cognitive development skill training and feed raw. I think their dogs look nice. 
Maybe not the best out there but It sounds like if I wait it will be at least 6-9 months to maybe have a red available and perhaps longer. I would wait up to 9 months if I knew I could get a red but since they are breeding two blacks I dong think I want to hang on to the hope of a red come april. they have provided ofa links for health and their vets phone number in case I want to call them. Thanks for your replies. Any other serious reservations on this breeder. I dont find much wrong with them from an amature prospective. I have taken concerns about them not showing their dogs but I personally am willing to look past that.


----------



## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

abrahamx said:


> I do know about expenses. I have owned almost a dozen dogs and currently have a golden doodle. Up keep is not a problem(we have already spent over 2k on vet bills this year with our hip displysia doodle). Purchase price is. I have never had to put up 2k for any vet or grooming costs. so that is not the problem. the 2k for purchase may or may not be there. that aside, the sunset place I am considering says all pups are registered akc which means the mom and dad must be(which was one concern you guys had) they say preliminary x rays showed good hips but the one dog(dad) is only 18 months so has not had 2 year xrays yet and the mom was due just as she went into heat so they claim the last set of xrays will be done in a few weeks. they are all extensively health tested and they do cognitive development skill training and feed raw. I think their dogs look nice.
> Maybe not the best out there but It sounds like if I wait it will be at least 6-9 months to maybe have a red available and perhaps longer. I would wait up to 9 months if I knew I could get a red but since they are breeding two blacks I dong think I want to hang on to the hope of a red come april. they have provided ofa links for health and their vets phone number in case I want to call them. Thanks for your replies. Any other serious reservations on this breeder. I dont find much wrong with them from an amature prospective. I have taken concerns about them not showing their dogs but I personally am willing to look past that.


I think it is a bit unusual to breed without full hip testing. I do believe sunset maple is breeding primarily for money, but they seem to be trying to do a good job of it. If distance, color, and timing are your highest priorities then it may be your best option. I understand timing for sure, as I chose my pup partly because I knew the timing of his litter would work out much better for me than the alternatives I was considering. But I would also caution against making hasty decisions, as this is a big commitment.


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

I would say timing, health, color,and temperment are my main concerns in that order. One big reasons for looking for another dog is our doodle has severe hip displysia at just over 2 years old. she pretty much just lays there or pants and paces all day and night. Wont walk or play etc... So I wanted to get a actual dog that can do the things we were wanting in the first place. Out of the 4 breeders suggested I would have a 9 month wait for a good chance for a red. Which in my situation means I would not be getting a poodle. So its pretty much go with sunset or find another red breeder somewhere else. I did not want to ship but if I found some one farther out that was a more reputable breeder I guess I would consider the shipping. Heck if some one can drive rom texas to ill to transport a dog I figure shipping is probably better than that long of a road trip. Seems like no one seems to like this breeder(sunset maple). so any suggestions for a red anywhere in the us would be welcome. Like I said I am willing to wait maybe 6 months or so but not if its only a chance of being a red. Which would mean waiting anothe 4 months or longer which could turn into years and I would like to get a dog asap really. Are the hips likely to change alot from the one year xray to the two year? I sure dont want another dog with hip displaysia.


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

Well I just call 3 out of the 16 refrences they sent me. All buyers seem quite happy with their dogs. Others replies in the email sent to me about being happy with their dogs as well. Most were from a couple years ago and they offered to request more current ones if I wanted. They seem like a very stand up breeder to me. I think I will go ahead and send them the $200 deposit to hold my place. They were born july 5th and will be ready to take home the first week of sept. I'll keep the forum posted on how things work out. Thanks for your replies and opinions.


----------



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Sometimes you have to wait or change up your requirements to get that healthy poodle you want. 
I understand that you want a red poodle so bad you can taste it.

I will warn you to slow down and really understand what you are getting is a living creature that you want to be active , happy and share your life. 

Right now I would flying to ends of the earth for a healthy poodle, I changed two of my requirements when I got my last poodle color and sex, a white toy Leonard. 
All I ever wanted was a brown toy girl, my first girl Baby, had severe dry eye, was high strung suffered from severe separation anxiety died when disc ruptured in her neck at age 8, I was devastated I wanted another puppy so I got another three days later Beatrice. I was told Beatrice had luxating patellas at 6 months, at 16 months she ruptured her cruciates ligament, she had surgery to repair the rupture and the luxating patella one knee and was three years when she had the second knee repaired. Beatrice was 4 when she was diagnosed with chronic kidney disease, all of these conditions are congenital, as well as the umbilical hernia, At 5 she was diagnosed with Lymphangiosarcoma, a rare aggressive terminal cancer. So I know heartbreak.

Don't got to crappy breeder, reassess or wait for that dream red poodle.


----------



## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

abrahamx said:


> Well I just call 3 out of the 16 refrences they sent me. All buyers seem quite happy with their dogs. Others replies in the email sent to me about being happy with their dogs as well. Most were from a couple years ago and they offered to request more current ones if I wanted. They seem like a very stand up breeder to me. I think I will go ahead and send them the $200 deposit to hold my place. They were born july 5th and will be ready to take home the first week of sept. I'll keep the forum posted on how things work out. Thanks for your replies and opinions.


For your criteria, I honestly think they are a very good fit. Excited for you


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

after much conversation I do not feel like I am going to a crappy breeder. I am open to hearing why you think they qualify as a crappy breeder. Our current doodle was bought from a highly recommended breeder and our dog has severe hip dysplasia that started at less than 1 year old. Muscle loss, artheritis, wont go for walks. Wont play. Just lays around all day. And paces and pants all night. Probably spent close to 5k on vet bills. Close to 2k this year and now she has some infection that we found when I took a urine sample to the vet. When they took an invasive sample they said it was gone after doing this several times they realized it only showed when I got a sample from her peeing and not a surgical sample directly from the bladder. So she has some infection some where else down the line. Can only be found via invasive testing from what we are told. Taking her to another specialist again soon. Bound to cost about another grand I figure, so one can never guarantee health even if the breeder is recommended. I have no reason to believe this puppy from sunset will not be healthy. If I did I would not be buying it. I know all to well the pains of having a sick dog. This will be my 10th dog purchase and I did more homework on this one than any other one. My other option is to wait 9 months for one from farleys and that is no health guarantee either. I feel good about my choice.


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

MaizieFrosty said:


> For your criteria, I honestly think they are a very good fit. Excited for you


Thanks. I would say if they are my color choice and have a good temperament and good health, and available in my time frame that it will be a good fit. I dont mind that they dont show their dogs. I can take their word and the references word on temperment, and I know its a slight risk with no 2 year hip check but the mom will have her 2 year check before I purchase. so the one 18 month dad will not have his but everything else is done plus a 7 week check on the pup, shots, training, etc... Hopefully I dont get another lemon. Also by the way, I had no input in the choice of our current dog. This one is all my input alone.


----------



## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

I don't know anything about the breeder, but I wish you luck with your new poodle, abrahamx. I hope the puppy is healthy and everything you hoped for.


----------



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

abrahamx said:


> Our current doodle was bought from a highly recommended breeder and our dog has severe hip dysplasia that started at less than 1 year old. Muscle loss, artheritis, wont go for walks. Wont play. Just lays around all day. And paces and pants all night. Probably spent close to 5k on vet bills. Close to 2k this year and now she has some infection that we found when I took a urine sample to the vet. When they took an invasive sample they said it was gone after doing this several times they realized it only showed when I got a sample from her peeing and not a surgical sample directly from the bladder. So she has some infection some where else down the line. Can only be found via invasive testing from what we are told.


Doodle and «*good breeder*» can not be in the same sentence. Doodles are not a breed, they are a mixed breed, or mutts if you prefer. People who breed these dogs are in it because they are in demand and there is money to be made. How could they be health testing when there is no set DNA or physical characteristics for any specific off-spring ?

I don’t have an opinion about your new breeder, but don’t think the person you bought your previous dog from is a good breeder, because she is not.

You need to set your standards a lot higher than that. I hope you find the best puppy. Color should not be a priority. Health is.


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

I know this and never said good breeder I dont think. I said highly recommended. Also if you read or re read my above posts you will see that I list health as my top priority. I have no reason to believe these dogs will not be healthy. If you do please state why. I have been doing my homework on this for years and feel like I came to a good conclusion to me. Its not as if I just learned about dogs as you seem to imply(not knowing a mutt from a purebred etc...). If you dont have an opinion on my breeder of choice then how can you say I need to set my standards higher? For all you know they are of the highest standard. Just seems kind of dog/breeder snobby that I am not buying from one of the 6 breeders suggested here. There are other good breeders out there that have good dogs in this country. Surely the few mentioned here are not the only good choices out there. I feel like I found a good choice thank you very much. Also I agree, the person my wife bought our last dog from was and is a horrible breeder. I gave them highly negative reviews also for that very reason. And also you can not get in their head and say why they are breeding. Maybe they are in it because they are in demand and money to be made, maybe they love this dog and want to see it added as a breed or just are passionate about this type of dog. Not suggesting I know why they are in it but you cant either. Pleanty of pure bred dog breeders are in it for the money also. I doubt any one is out to spend money to give dogs away. Its all about making money in the long term. Some are just doing what they love to make money just like anyone else. I doubt any one doing this even if its a puppy mill is doing it just for money. there are surely better ways of making money other than breeding dogs.


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

Edit: Posted in wrong section.


----------



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

abrahamx said:


> I know this and never said good breeder I dont think. I said highly recommended. Also if you read or re read my above posts you will see that I list health as my top priority. I have no reason to believe these dogs will not be healthy. If you do please state why. I have been doing my homework on this for years and feel like I came to a good conclusion to me. Its not as if I just learned about dogs as you seem to imply(not knowing a mutt from a purebred etc...). If you dont have an opinion on my breeder of choice then how can you say I need to set my standards higher? For all you know they are of the highest standard. Just seems kind of dog/breeder snobby that I am not buying from one of the 6 breeders suggested here. There are other good breeders out there that have good dogs in this country. Surely the few mentioned here are not the only good choices out there. I feel like I found a good choice thank you very much. Also I agree, the person my wife bought our last dog from was and is a horrible breeder. I gave them highly negative reviews also for that very reason. And also you can not get in their head and say why they are breeding. Maybe they are in it because they are in demand and money to be made, maybe they love this dog and want to see it added as a breed or just are passionate about this type of dog. Not suggesting I know why they are in it but you cant either. Pleanty of pure bred dog breeders are in it for the money also. I doubt any one is out to spend money to give dogs away. Its all about making money in the long term. Some are just doing what they love to make money just like anyone else. I doubt any one doing this even if its a puppy mill is doing it just for money. there are surely better ways of making money other than breeding dogs.


I wasn’t trying to insult you, sorry if it looked that way.

I was merely saying don’t base your opinion of this poodle breeder on your doodle breeder, who was «*highly recommended*». Just that, nothing else implied.

I haven’t looked at the breeder you’re looking at, which is why I have no opinion about it. If you are interested in one more opinion, I can look at it.

In any case, it’s your choice and at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter what others think.


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

Right. No insult taken. I recieved alot of good info here and believe I should get a nice dog. I like to believe there are a whole lot more good poodles out there than bad ones. All dogs really. I happened to get a bad one this last time but it was the only time also. Hopefully its more rare to get a bad dog. All my other ones have been great and lived a nice long life with minimal or no issues. Had a couple beagles, a couple irish setters, couple labs, a golden lab, a dal, treeing walker coonhound, and currently a doodle. all with no issues till the doodle. Its nice that she is nice and mellow but not sure how long she will last with her hip bad at 2 years old. Beautiful dog but she just sits around all the time. I sure hope my next dog is healthy. Looking forward to a nice straight up poodle.


----------



## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

which dogs are the sire and dam of the litter your puppy will come from? are they on the breeder's website? 

also a site for you to think about once you have your puppy: betterbred.com. one of the founders is very up on the diversity issue. maybe your breeder is a member. which would be a plus, imo.
post photos of your puppy, please. and good luck.


----------



## kchen95 (Jan 6, 2016)

abrahamx said:


> Right. No insult taken. I recieved alot of good info here and believe I should get a nice dog. I like to believe there are a whole lot more good poodles out there than bad ones. All dogs really. I happened to get a bad one this last time but it was the only time also. Hopefully its more rare to get a bad dog. All my other ones have been great and lived a nice long life with minimal or no issues. Had a couple beagles, a couple irish setters, couple labs, a golden lab, a dal, treeing walker coonhound, and currently a doodle. all with no issues till the doodle. Its nice that she is nice and mellow but not sure how long she will last with her hip bad at 2 years old. Beautiful dog but she just sits around all the time. I sure hope my next dog is healthy. Looking forward to a nice straight up poodle.


I agree with others who say that this breeder (Sunset) may be a good fit for you. And, I definitely don't subscribe to the notion that just because a breeder doesn't compete her dogs in conformation or other organized events, then that breeder cannot be serious about breeding happy, healthy and intelligent dogs. Before I got Shilo, my moyen, I did seriously consider a moyen breeder in Japan who doesn't show or compete in any dog events, but who clearly breeds very happy, healthy and intelligent dogs (I visited her and her dogs in Japan). The only reason I didn't end up getting a dog from her was because 1) her young dog I fell in love with wasn't for sale, and 2) timing.

I certainly don't fault people who do prioritize conformation and other organized sports, and agree that these events serve as a useful screening tool. But, I would not go to the opposite end and say that just because someone chooses not to do these events, that means they're not serious about breeding good dogs.

Good luck with everything!

Kevin


----------



## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Just wanted to congratulate you on your decision to go with a poodle. It sounds like you have gotten good references . So now to the next step..waiting...I hope you will come back and share pictures of your new pup. You may even want to start a 52 week thread. You can find the on here and see many of our pups. My st poodle is white as you can see from my avatar. I didn't really care about color although I wanted a red initially but this guy kinda fell into my lap. He is quite the handful of energy at times but is beginning to get his senses now at 20 months. LOL. Of course I'm old now so that has slowed my training with him down. Well just wanted to wish you the best.


----------



## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Kevin..godd post to which I agree with.


----------



## scooterscout99 (Dec 3, 2015)

So funny, Mufar. I also wanted a red. Had a good phone conversation with Arreau, was on another breeder's (responsible, in my opinion) litter list. Then I learned of a litter on the ground of another color, and I wanted a dog NOW.

I'm happy with my non-red boy. He's definitely the agility dog of my dreams, and has achieved much else in these 3.5 years together, in addition to being a real sweetheart.

I'm thinking about bringing in another dog and, it's easy to be circumspect with one super dog already in the house. There are many small scale (hobby?) breeders that meet my criteria. And it's likely that color will not come into play at all.

The only topic that I disagree about with the OP is that breeders are in it for money. Small scale breeders (2 or 3 litters a year) would be hard pressed to make much of a profit. And if that profit is normalized for number of hours invested in each litter, it would likely render a salary below minimum wage. The breeders on my list state their priority as improving the breed. Traveling to conformation shows with 'my' breeder I was able to learn the logic of each pairing, and why breeders have so few litters in a year (don't breed unless they want a puppy from the pairing, for future breeding).

There are several breeders who discuss the economics of breeding on their web pages, which may be revealed by a web search. There are also breeders that are glaringly honest about how often they DON'T breed because the prospective dam/sire turns out to be not appropriate (medical or other issues emerge). Time and money invested for naught.

Good luck to the OP with your new puppy!


----------



## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

scooterscout...yes I agree while there is sometimes money made there is often money lost...Really a lot goes into breeding a litter. Some 35 years ago or more I worked with a breeder and bred a few liters. This was before I had children. While I loved one part of it, the puppies, the rest was a lot of work, money and time. Back then all my dogs had been tested I had to go to another state for eye certification, all my pups had their eyes checked prior to sale, then a different state for ear cropping, as they had to be perfect in the event one was going to be shown. Then I had a handler to show one of my pups and I had to pay her . Yes a lot goes into breeding that people do not always see. Renn basically fell into my lap, I was just looking and still gathering info if I really wanted another dog..but breeder was visiting a friend who happen to live just a few miles from me and she was brings two puppies with her. The rest is history. I was lucky in that she is reputable and he has good sire & dam, I probably would have brought him home anyway. LOL At my age I only look at pictures now can't have anymore. LOL


----------



## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

I also think many small breeders are not in it for the money. With Misha's breeder she spent hours talking to me before she even agreed to let me put a deposit down. She said she gets multiple inquiries every day about her puppies and she is extremely selective about who she lets them go home to. She also shows most of the dogs she keeps which I'm sure is expensive. I doubt there is much profit there. Especially because mini litters aren't large.

That's not to say that all breeders that breed for profit aren't worth buying from. I think a breeder can profit while still doing a really good job raising healthy pups. I do think it changes the breeder's relationship with the buyer, which is something I consider.


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

patk said:


> which dogs are the sire and dam of the litter your puppy will come from? are they on the breeder's website?
> 
> also a site for you to think about once you have your puppy: betterbred.com. one of the founders is very up on the diversity issue. maybe your breeder is a member. which would be a plus, imo.
> post photos of your puppy, please. and good luck.


I do plan on sticking around and learning as much as I can. I will post pics. The sire and dam are on the website they are Broughan's Inferno of the Maples, and Buleria Flamenca de Noor Y Albarral Dolce. Theres pics of them under their "our poodles section" and also under the wait list section there is a pic of each and the tiny puppies. Just born July 9th.


----------



## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

looking forward to meeting the pup and watching it grow. i see the dam and sire on the site; i like the fact that they are on the svelte side!


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

lol What does that mean? I have a lot to learn, sorry. Edit. I looked it up. slender and elegant????


----------



## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

height and weight of the dam and sire say smaller dog to me. not in the 60-70 pound range.


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

patk said:


> height and weight of the dam and sire say smaller dog to me. not in the 60-70 pound range.


Right I agree and was/is a good factor to me. I would like 50-55 but not sure I will even see that?


----------



## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

may not. but one of the reasons i have gone for smaller dogs is concern about being able to lift them if needed for an emergency trip to a vet. i love the look of standards, but because of size don't think i should get one.


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

lol. I've worked construction for the past 25 years. I would have no problem throwing a 75 pounder over my shoulder. Luckily with 10 dogs over 35 years I have never had to make an emergency vet visit. Our current dog is 38 lbs and I love that size.


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

Change of plans hopefully. Seems NOLA has 1 red female and as long as she agrees to sell it to me I it is ours. Yay! She even said she would personally deliever it from la to mi. Now that's quality and care. We could not be happier.


----------



## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Congrats! Hopefully it works out.


----------



## Beaches1 (Jul 9, 2017)

Wow. You struck gold! So happy for you!


----------



## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

abrahamx said:


> Change of plans hopefully. Seems NOLA has 1 red female and as long as she agrees to sell it to me I it is ours. Yay! She even said she would personally deliever it from la to mi. Now that's quality and care. We could not be happier.


wow, I hope this works out for you. Congratulations.


----------



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Lucky you !


----------



## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

abrahamx said:


> Change of plans hopefully. Seems NOLA has 1 red female and as long as she agrees to sell it to me I it is ours. Yay! She even said she would personally deliever it from la to mi. Now that's quality and care. We could not be happier.


Oh wow, you are extremely luck with this change of events! Hope you keep us updated!!


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

The only issue I could think of is that we dont have a fenced in yard. We used an invisible fence with our current dog but we took off her collar pretty shortly after training and have had no issues. Our last dalmatian we did not use anything and the dog stayed close by. We are on an acre with half wooded yard with lots of land around us and we are on a cul de sac with no busy roads around. We never had a problem with it and our dal breeder said nothing about it so my fingers are crossed. My wife filled out the puppy app and earlier today and we are eagerly awaiting a reply. Heck I think I would put up a fence if I have to.


----------



## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

I vote put up the fence


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

MaizieFrosty said:


> I vote put up the fence


that would take awhile and cost a forturne. Plus there is a creek it would have to somehow cross. Unless I just fenced in a small area it would not be feasible really, and I dont really want to do that. I like our dogs having free run of the yard. You would have to see the yard really. Its quite unique. One side has a creek, actually two sides have a creek running along side. The other side has dense treelings that would be hard to get through(let alone build a fence). the other two sides do have a fence. Like I said its never been a problem with any other dog. You would really have to see the property. I told my wife she may as well have just said it was fenced. Mother nature is better than a fence in our case


----------



## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

As long as predators and cars aren't a risk, I guess. In California, we have many dangers. I saw a dog get hit at the dog park the other day and I'm still traumatized by it.


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

We are outside of the city or for sure we would have a fence. Sorry to hear about that dog. Geeze.


----------



## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Congratulations! I think you will be very happy with a NOLA girl! Pretty sure you will work out the "containment" issue as well.


----------



## jojogal001 (Feb 19, 2019)

Congratulations! I hope this will work out for you. If it doesn’t, I think, by how you described them, the other breeder sounds pretty good. Finding a breeder is probably the hardest part of getting a pup, except for the waiting. Can’t wait to hear updates, and seeing pics of the new kid, no matter where you get it. Have fun!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

abrahamx said:


> We are outside of the city or for sure we would have a fence. Sorry to hear about that dog. Geeze.


I think there’s a good chance you won’t need a fence. Hopefully the breeder won’t mind. Especially if you are willing to have one installed in case it’s needed.


----------



## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

I am in Arkansas and currently have a litter . Very red .


----------



## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

Dogs4Life said:


> abrahamx said:
> 
> 
> > Change of plans hopefully. Seems NOLA has 1 red female and as long as she agrees to sell it to me I it is ours. Yay! She even said she would personally deliever it from la to mi. Now that's quality and care. We could not be happier.
> ...


Heard anything back from NOLA about the puppy??


----------



## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

bigredpoodle said:


> I am in Arkansas and currently have a litter . Very red .
> 
> Gorgeous babies


----------



## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

bigredpoodle said:


> I am in Arkansas and currently have a litter . Very red .
> 
> Beautiful color!! I love red poodles.


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

Dogs4Life said:


> Heard anything back from NOLA about the puppy??


Yes! We are getting a pup from them the weekend of the 10th. woohoo. I believe she will be 10 wks old by then.


----------



## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

Congrats!


----------



## rberry74 (Jun 28, 2017)

Wishing you the best with your new puppy! It's wonderful and exciting! I would like to add that I recently added a new red puppy from Arreau to my family and I waited 2 years (for the timing to work) and it has been the best experience ever. My boy is amazing and gorgeous. Like you, I live in SE Michigan and made the trek to Canada...it was SO worth it. Good luck and have fun!!! This is my baby boy...5 months old today.


----------



## nrawlinson (Jul 19, 2019)

We also have a litter of red puppies. We are a family breeder and only breed our heath tested family dogs. It sounds like you have found a puppy and I am excited for you. Our red has been a fantastic family dog. Not high strung at all. Yet she can go when she needs to (runs with mom and hunts with dad)!


----------



## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

nrawlinson said:


> We also have a litter of red puppies. We are a family breeder and only breed our heath tested family dogs. It sounds like you have found a puppy and I am excited for you. Our red has been a fantastic family dog. Not high strung at all. Yet she can go when she needs to (runs with mom and hunts with dad)!


Your dogs are not fully health tested. You bred them before they were two years old, and you said only the female passed her _preliminary_ testing. Not ethical breeding practices. Also, advertising of litters is not allowed here, although we do recommend breeders who do *full health testing*, including (for red dogs) Sheroc, NOLA, Arreau, FarleysD, etc.


----------



## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

correction: 'we' does not include all of pf. individual members make recommendations. not all members are equally well informed. and sometimes even those who consider themselves exceptionally well-informed are wrong. not intentionally. but no one is perfect. therefore, caveat emptor.


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

Plus bigredpoodle straight up advertised a litter saying "I am in Arkansas and currently have a litter . " and recieved just a few compliments. This does not seem consistent to whatever the rules are. Just trying to be fair. I figure nrawlinson only did so because they saw bigredpoodle do the same just a few posts ago with nothing but compliments. Had someone mentioned the rules to bigredpoodle perhaps nrawlinson would have known better.


----------



## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Beautiful Arreau pup!


----------



## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

abrahamx said:


> Plus bigredpoodle straight up advertised a litter saying "I am in Arkansas and currently have a litter . " and recieved just a few compliments. This does not seem consistent to whatever the rules are. Just trying to be fair. I figure nrawlinson only did so because they saw bigredpoodle do the same just a few posts ago with nothing but compliments. Had someone mentioned the rules to bigredpoodle perhaps nrawlinson would have known better.


I agree with you, abraham, there should be no advertising of litters from anyone. It's easier to support someone who shows and does health testing, but rules are rules.


----------



## nrawlinson (Jul 19, 2019)

MaizieFrosty said:


> Your dogs are not fully health tested. You bred them before they were two years old, and you said only the female passed her _preliminary_ testing. Not ethical breeding practices. Also, advertising of litters is not allowed here, although we do recommend breeders who do *full health testing*, including (for red dogs) Sheroc, NOLA, Arreau, FarleysD, etc.


I'm sorry if I misunderstood the forum rules. The only reason why I posted was because other breeders posted a reply advertising their litter. I therefore thought that rule 9 in the forum rules must be for starting threads:

"rule 9: You will not post any messages that pertain to advertising/selling dogs or puppies (or any other live animal), or advertising/seeking any breeding services such as a stud dog or breeding your bitch. PF does not act as a medium to facilitate breedings, and all such type of threads will be deleted."

That rule doesn't seem to say anything about certain health testing requirements that need to be done before they can advertise their litters. Again, I apologize if I posted when I shouldn't have. I would be happy to remove my post if need be. However, it seems that according to the rule #9 other posts should be flagged for removal as well.

We did test hips with a PennHip test, which allows testing at a much earlier age than when we tested our girl at 22 months old. The reason we did a preliminary OFA at the same time is because we know that there are some buyers who prefer OFA over the PennHip test.


----------



## nrawlinson (Jul 19, 2019)

abrahamx said:


> Plus bigredpoodle straight up advertised a litter saying "I am in Arkansas and currently have a litter . " and recieved just a few compliments. This does not seem consistent to whatever the rules are. Just trying to be fair. I figure nrawlinson only did so because they saw bigredpoodle do the same just a few posts ago with nothing but compliments. Had someone mentioned the rules to bigredpoodle perhaps nrawlinson would have known better.


You are exactly right abrahamx! In fact my initial thought was to send a PM to you instead of post. I thought that action would be more in lines with the forum rules. When others posted positive comments about the other litter, I guess I assumed that it was OK protocol to post a followup. Again, I am happy to remove my earlier post to alleviate any concerns.


----------



## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

The mods will remove the posts if they think it's necessary.


----------



## nrawlinson (Jul 19, 2019)

MaizieFrosty said:


> The mods will remove the posts if they think it's necessary.


Yes, I requested them to look at and remove my posts as well as other advertising posts.


----------



## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Advertising of any kind is not allowed in this forum. Litter announcements are fine, we all would like to celebrate with you - but no links to commercial websites. If a member is interested after a litter announcement, they can send you a private message, or locate your website/facebook page on their own. No posting of links will be allowed.

I know when Arreau posts litter photos, videos, etc., all her puppies are usually spoken for and she's just sharing the joy with the rest of us. 

Please do not add any more website links to this thread. It sounds like the OP has found their forever puppy - CONGRATULATIONS, by the way! Wishing you years and years of happiness with your new family member!!

Barb Plum
Moderator


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

Now that I am getting a NOLA pup I will post the response from the other breeder I was dealing with earlier(Sunset maple poodles) in regards to when I questioned them about not showing their dogs and and not doing a second hip check. Those were some of the concerns other forum members had so when I asked about it she had this to say(I am posting this just for edjucational purposed so we can all learn and be clear) she replied via email

"AKC allows males dogs to sire litters at 10 months of age, females 11 or 12 months old. We have a vet that specializes in canine reproduction. Joanne Randall, Animal Hospital of Woodstock, and she says a female can be bred at her second heat cycle.

The OFA, is trying to give guidance regarding health tests that should be considered in different breeds for best breeding results. As I understand it the hip Xray at 2 years of age is being done because they are collecting data regarding hips. Hips are obviously affected by genetics, but also by the activities allowed the first two years of the dogs growth. There are many examples of parent dogs with excellent hips giving birth to puppies with fair or bad hips. The reverse is also true. I am not an expert but I have been told that a preliminary hip xray at 1 year of age is about 93% accurate. Our poodles are xrayed at 1 year of age to make sure we are not making a mistake in our breeding plans. Then we have the final xrays done after they turn two.

Some breeders will not breed a dog until it is older than 5 years of age. They say that then they know there are no health issues. Science has come a long way and we can now test dogs to see if they are carriers for diseases that they are symptomatic of. The reproductive vet says younger dogs have larger, healthier litters they are more capable of caring for. Now a female dog is bred every heat cycle for 2 years and then retired and the mother dogs at 8 years of age are much healthier. There are pros and cons to everything and there are certainly more than one opinion regarding the best canine poodle breeding practices. These are the ones I subscribe to.

Showing poodles is a very expensive endeavor. My friends, who show poodles, tell me it costs between $40,000 and $44,000 to bring a poodle to championship in the AKC now. Frankly, I do not care how others judge my poodles for their beauty. I want my poodles to be as healthy as possible for as long as possible. I expect that our buyers want the same thing, therefore that is what we try to produce.

Are you familiar with COI, Co-efficient of inbreeding? It is a number that determines how related the parents are to each other. Poodles that are shown often have COIs of 30 or more because sires are often bred to their daughters to lock in desired beautiful physical characteristics. Unfortunately high COIs are also blamed for many of the autoimmune diseases coming out in dogs. Our breedings have COIs of 5 or less. That is why I imported Dolce. Not only is she beautifu,l but her line from Spain brought in genetic material diverse from many of the red poodles found in the United States.

I think our poodles are lovely, healthy, smart and have wonderful temperaments. I value the opinions of our veterinarians and our puppy families. I am never going to show my poodles, or lock them up for years to grow out a show coat. That is not what we are about. If you are interested in showing a poodle you may be better off with a different breeder.

I have forward the invoice from PayPal. If you decide to place a deposit you may do so either by check or credit card."

Just wondering your thoughts?


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

nrawlinson said:


> You are exactly right abrahamx! In fact my initial thought was to send a PM to you instead of post. I thought that action would be more in lines with the forum rules. When others posted positive comments about the other litter, I guess I assumed that it was OK protocol to post a followup. Again, I am happy to remove my earlier post to alleviate any concerns.


Very beautiful dogs by the way.


----------



## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

I don't think you're allowed to post private communication, so this might get removed. But, here are my thoughts in bold:



abrahamx said:


> "AKC allows males dogs to sire litters at 10 months of age, females 11 or 12 months old. We have a vet that specializes in canine reproduction. Joanne Randall, Animal Hospital of Woodstock, and she says a female can be bred at her second heat cycle.
> 
> *AKC is a very low standard of quality. Look to the breed club's code of ethics instead. Just because a dog can breed on their first or second heat doesn't mean it should be done. *
> 
> ...


----------



## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

did you ask your interlocutor for permission first? that would have been the decent thing to do. otherwise it's prohibited by pf rules.


----------



## abrahamx (Jul 27, 2019)

ok, if its a questionable post I will edit it. Thanks. But on top of that someone else already quoted it also. I dont feel like breaking any rules at the moment. OH to late to edit but if the mods want to delete it then they will do so.


----------



## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

my post was not directed at you, but at the pm'd reply. once a pm is involved, both parties (or however many) have to agree it can be published or brought into open session for discussion. one reason, i suspect, is that in some cases things are said that might be embarrassing or even defamatory for someone and any participant in the discussion could be drawn into a very unpleasant situation, even litigation. not that that couldn't happen with a published thread, but pms are exactly that, personal messages not intended for the open forum.


----------



## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

I don't see any PM, just the email that the OP posted here, to which I responded. How could your message not be directed to the OP? You make zero sense.


----------



## kchen95 (Jan 6, 2016)

MaizieFrosty said:


> I don't see any PM, just the email that the OP posted here, to which I responded. How could your message not be directed to the OP? You make zero sense.


I think what Patk is saying is that, with any PM (or email) correspondence, it is meant to remain privately between two people, unless both people consent to having the PM (or email) shared openly. 

I would guess the forum has a rule that specifically prohibits PF PMs from from being shared publicly without the explicit consent of both parties, but I'm guessing the forum cannot feasibly extend this rule to include emails outside the forum. 

Having said this, would it have been the polite thing to do to ask the other party (Sunset) for permission to share the email before doing so? Yes, I do think so. On the other hand, I also think the email reply from Sunset was so innocent that it could be assumed Sunset wouldn't mind having that email shared. Sunset shared its breeding philosophy in crystal clear language, and from the language, I don't get the feeling Sunset would have no any problems sharing that language openly.

Kevin


----------



## kchen95 (Jan 6, 2016)

I would also add that for me, I would have no problems considering getting a dog from Sunset, based on their stated breeding philosophy. I would certainly need to do extensive due diligence (as I would regarding any breeder) before confirming whether they mean what they say, but given what they said, I would take a look at them.

Kevin


----------



## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Thank you for clarifying that for me, Kevin. And I agree, I think Sunset seems like a fine breeder.


----------



## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

A COI of 5 or less is very good! Which breeder was this? I got a bit lost in all of the back and forth.


----------

