# Conditioner or not?



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I don't use any. It's personal preference though. I think it weights down the hair and that film attracts dirt or dust...tiny particles. But it can be enough to encourage more tendency to mat. I have used it on occasion...but definitely not when showing. I just don't these days.

Congrats on your upcoming Spoo! Happy days ahead!


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

I use conditioner and I swear by it, but my dog is a mat monster. So he needs it to keep his hair from tangling up immediately after a bath. He doesn't have a proper poodle coat, though - it's soft and cottony like a puppy coat. He still gets pretty fluffy after a blow-dry, though the fluff mostly falls out within a day or two.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I use conditioner but I dilute it to a 'creme rinse' just to avoid tangles and matts because I keep Molly's jacket very long! I use it only on her jacket and TK.


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## maddogdodge (May 29, 2015)

Sounds like its really a personal preference thing. Will try with conditioner and without with my new pup and see what works best for him 

Thanks for the replies!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

When you have a nice, long, fluffy coat, brushing it when it's completely dry can break it so a spray of some sort, even water...a mist is good to use. I didn't use anything when I was preparing my dog for a show because you just spent a loooong time drying it just so and you don't want to mist it. lol. But for in between times, it will help keep the coat from breaking. And of course, always brush out all the tangles _before_ bathing.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

maddogdodge said:


> I'm sure this has been asked before, but i can't find it, sorry!
> 
> I'm getting my first Spoo soon (So excited!!  ) I've been gathering all the supplies I need.
> 
> ...


It's not true. I use diluted conditioner in my poodles' coat for maintenance baths. I do often skip the conditioner (except in ears) for show baths or if I'll be doing a lot of scissoring.


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## Khaleesiandthepoms (Feb 25, 2014)

Unfortunately so far my spoo did not develop her mother or father's lovely harsh curly show coat so she is somewhat soft coated and I use a leave in conditioner about 70% of the time to keep the matting at bay.


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## farleysd (Apr 18, 2011)

I am one of the ones in favor of conditioners. One thing I have learnt over the years, different conditioners for different dogs, as well as different conditioners for different climates. I use to swear by a very popular conditioner years back it was great on my reds and apricots, but once I purchased a white girl, she matted up very quickly with that conditioner. I use a light conditioner on a moist coat and a heavy conditioner on a dry coat.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Oh gosh i use lots of conditioner. I live on a big rural property so the poodles are always playing in the snow and in and out of places with straw and brush. You know that super heavy conditioner that comes in tubes (for women)? I use that on them! I also use Cowboy Magic (made for horse tails and manes) and Santa Fe detangler (also made for horses). I have also used hot oil treatments made for humans, which is probably the best thing ever for detangling. I would say, yes; conditioner does flatten the coat. But if you have a dog that is very active and mats easily, it's really worth using!! I bathe them every week or every 2 weeks, and Indy is in a continental clip right now. If it is flattening her coat, you couldn't really notice; however, she does have lots of coat.


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## animalcule (Apr 19, 2015)

Depends on the dog/coat I guess and what you're trying to achieve. My Poodle cross has an extremely curly coarse coat that I usually keep clipped between 1-4" and I condition it just because it makes it feel softer and nicer, haha.


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## Renai (Dec 29, 2015)

I'm baffled by some of the conditioner hate! Having curly hair myself, I did a lot of research on caring for human curls. The right conditioner is an absolute must, and I will never ever not use conditioner on a poodle.

I have noticed that some dog conditioners don't list their products - like hell I'd ever buy that! Because there are a lot of ingredients that go into effective conditioner for textured hair, and not all textured hair needs all of them. It can take people with textured hair years to figure out what ingredients they need and need to avoid and when and in what weather.

The ones I always pay attention to for myself (and so far I'm using my products on my spoo, but he's got puppy coat, so we'll see how that goes in the future):

Quats (This is in a nutshell what a conditioner IS)
Protein
Emollients (Oils)
Moisturizers (Aloe Vera)
Humectants (Glycerin)
Silicone
Alcohol

An important note is that most of these products can build up if not washed out as much as they are washed in, causing all sorts of effects, like weighed down hair, stringy hair, sticky hair, dirty hair, frizzy hair, and breakage. The right surfactants (cleanser) are needed to get various ingredients out. That's usually the job of a conditioner's matching shampoo, though conditioners often also have enough surfactant ingredients that some hair may not need shampoo. (ex: I shampoo near my scalp, but not the ends, for Copper I only seem to need to shampoo behind his ears so far.)

Another note is that one important purpose of conditioner is to make hair less vulnerable to damage and to control damage caused by friction with other hair, brushes, and anything else that touches it. Ideally, hair shafts have tight, smooth follicles. Textured hair is more vulnerable because its shape makes follicles less straight up and down.

*Quats* are neat, long molecules that are attracted to the hair on one end and not the other, and are especially attracted to areas of hair that are damaged which need them most. They make the hair slick, prevent tangles and ease detangling. They prevent static charge. They help save the hair from friction, the quats are a protective shield. They help prevent dirt and other nasties from attaching to the hair. They can weigh down the hair, to great or poor effect, some more than others, though I think that can be countered with other ingredients. All a conditioner really is is quats, everything else is technically optional.

Fun fact: quats are the active ingredient in dryer sheets as well as many soaps and detergents, though you shouldn't use those on your dog. If you've ever wondered why people use dryer sheets on everything, like rubbing their cars with them, it's because of that quat magic. 

Every poodle deserves quats! They make brushing easier and less painful. Detangling sprays have quats in them, and if you're spraying your dog with water to brush, there needs to be quats in the spray or from the bath. Wet hair is more vulnerable to damage than dry hair, so getting hair wet to prevent damage without quats will damage hair more. It might make it easier, because you aren't fighting the dried textured hair, but that doesn't mean it's not damaging. It's possible that some quats will do better than others for your poodle.

On Copper I pay special attention to conditioning the "tangle zones" behind the ears and shoulders, as well as his tail, around his genitals, and his paws and lower legs, just to let those quats do their thing.

*Protein* can be good or bad. Particularly undamaged hair shouldn't need it, and it may cause ill effect. In damaged hair, it can help fill in the damage. In very damaged hair, it may fill in damage too much. Too much added protein causes hair to feel crunchy and causes breakage, it can change the texture of the hair and make it frizzier. Just enough can make some hair shafts much less rough, more resistant to friction. Protein can also build up over time if it's not lost and washed out as fast as it's put it, so some people who need it alternate products.

*Emollients* soften hair and make it shine. Every emollient is different, some penetrating the hair shaft more than others. Some, like shea butter, smooth hair follicles. Jojoba oil acts a lot like the sebum skin produces to keep hair and skin soft. These especially can weigh hair down, though, and can attract dirt.

*Moisturizers* make hair soft (bendy, pliable), soft hair breaks less. Aloe vera is the only one I care about, it's great. Some amino acids are moisturizers, but they also belong in the protein category above, for better and worse.

*Humectants* attract water molecules into the hair, contributing to the shape of the hair shaft. This is the most weather-sensitive part of hair care, because hair will suck water out of the air, and I suspect a lot of poodle people who want more textured coats would like to play with humectants, because it can make hair frizzy and voluminous. Panthenol is a humectant, as is glycerin. Textured hair holds onto more water than non-textured hair, and it's always a balancing act to get the perfect amount, too little and the hair won't curl or wave consistently, too much and it's a frizzy doomsday mess.

*Silicones!* There's a whole movement of curly-haired people avoiding these, including me. They really build up and require very specific surfactants to remove them, most of which are very harsh. Silicones act a lot of proteins, filling in gaps to make hair slick and shiny, even filling in gaps too much, but they also make it harder for the hair to absorb moisture, which can make the balancing act with your humectants impossible. These things can cause the craziest kinks.

*Alcohol* is especially found in spray products, but also in shampoo and conditioners. They dry out the hair and damage it. Not all ingredients with "alcohol" in the name are bad though, and some are really good, like ceteryl alcohol. Ones to watch out for are SD alcohol 40 and Isopropanol.

There's a lot of information about this online, and I really wonder if poodle people shouldn't read the Curly Girl handbook.


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