# Newborn help



## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

pm sent.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

My husband used to breed English Setters and sometime with all you can do, you still lose a pup. I would take the little one to the vet. Remove the larger pups for a few mins. and let her try to nurse alone , then continue with feeding her. Keep her with her mom if you can, make sure the mom is keeping her bottom clean! If she isn't that is a big problem! You will have to do it for her. Good Luck!


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## Keystonefarms (Apr 11, 2012)

Thank you Carley's mom and the other response, though I havnt managed to open it yet. I have an I pad and I am not the great on it yet.

I have been helping each pup once a day to potty, just in case mom missing them. I weigh each one also daily and weigh the little one morning and night and cleaning her twice also, so there is more room for food. I will try like you said to just let her feed with just a couple of the siblings to stimulate the milk. Hopefully today she may get better. As for the vet, none of my breeder friends suggested that. I think they have have maybe seen this stuff before and know also like you said, that it happens, I don't think the vet could do much more, maybe tube her, but then her sucking days would be over for sure. She is not acting sick, and she is still responsive. I will post again later to update
Thanks again


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Sounds like you are doing everything that you can. I know my husband took a little one like that to the vet and I think they put it on an antibiotic. We did not take it in until they were ready to look at it and then we kept in on a towel the whole time. It never came in contact with anything. But it must have been sick ... If your puppy is active I think it will make it .


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## pgr8dnlvr (Aug 7, 2011)

Definitely no cleft palate? What about mega esophagus? I'm not sure how to diagnose mega though?...

Best of luck! 
Rebecca


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## Paragon (Feb 18, 2012)

Keystonefarms

I understand how you want to help this little one. You helped bring her into this world, planned this breeding and feel responsible for her well-being... As long as she eats and poops she will come along. Nine pups is alot to feed for mom, especially in the beginning. Some Poodles don't have a healthy size litter anymore.. you should be pleased.

I would suggest taking the rest of the pups away from mom for a few hours, and leaving her and a sibling alone to nurse. Alternately, especially if mom stresses, put mom out for an hour or two. When she comes in, let the wee one, and another smaller sibling have a go at mom for about 15 minutes before the rest of the crew gets a chance. 

I also weigh pups 2X a day for the first while to make sure we have proper weight gain. This is not helping pups! Some pups are not as pushy, and have soft temperments! A vet check wouldn't hurt to rule out any problems. Don't ask about my vet bills...

If this girl comes along, but isn't as robust as you like, there is always a pet home. It is the greatest honour for our babies to have devoted masters who treasure them. We have to get real! Almost all of our pups go to pet homes anyway.

I would be trying my best to help little one as well. If all goes well, with all the extra stimulation, pup will have the most maleable temperment. She would possibly make a obedience, performance prospect.

Paragon


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## Paragon (Feb 18, 2012)

Keystonefarms, 

If you want, I also have an old recipe for milk replacer from 30+ years ago, that worked when dams had alot of pups, and only so much milk. It has Caro- Corn syrop, fresh goat milk(Carnation substitute) Buttermilk/Yogurt, free range eggs.

It saved plenty a pup! We usally only needed this for a few days to get the vigour up.

Paragon


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## KidWhisperer (Apr 3, 2012)

Well, I know nothing at all about breeding or raising pups, but I want to applaud and commend you for your devotion to this tiny creature and trying to save a precious life.


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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

I agree with kid whisperer and I must state that thank god my Nicholas breeder did not throw him away because he had bad knees. Every pup deserves a good life even the frail and less than perfect. I am so thankful to all of you who love their kids despite all. 
Good luck to you and to the tiny kids. I hope they thrive and are adopted by folks who love them as much as you obviously do. 


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## Rusty (Jun 13, 2012)

I, too, have never bred dogs or raised newborn puppies, and can't comment on any decisions related to those subjects. 

However, I do know that my mpoo Rusty was born without the piece of skin that covered his voicebox, and could not eat or drink normally. He coughed every time he drank water, and needed to be fed tiny bits of food by hand a little bit at a time to keep him from choking on his food. For 17.5 years we spent 1 - 2 hours a day sitting on the living room floor to feed him, and the only health problem he ever had was one ear infection, and CHF that developed when he was 16. His irresponsible breeder should probably have had him put down immediately when he was born, but instead sold him to us without any disclosure of his problems (we were admittedly clueless and uneducated then about how to find a good breeder and puppy). My family (unknowingly) bought a special needs dog who we all adored for nearly 18 years, and taught us so much about patience, selflessness, love, and how to enjoy a good sunbeam.

Good luck with your tiny puppy. I hope he does well and goes on to live many happy, healthy years in an adoring family.


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## Apres Argent (Aug 9, 2010)

In my last litter I had a tiny little girl. She was one of 8 and 1/3 the size of the others. Several times a day I would make sure she was nursing without the others pushing her off, I also supplemented her as needed. She may not have survived if she was a wild wolf pup in the wild but with very little help she doubled weight and continued growing although still 1/3 of the size of the others. When Mom started standing to nurse the little one figured out very quickly she could stand on a sibling and get the best place at the bar. She is 5 months old now and a spitfire but still 1/3 the size of her siblings. I doubt she will make it to 19 inches tall but she has been checked by the vet several times and all seems to be well at this point! Could be a throw back to some old genes or the Mini way back in the pedigree.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I bottle fed the runt in one of my husbands Setter litters and you guessed it, it stayed with us for 12 years, very healthy and came close to breaking the field trail record around here... very close to her mother's record I might add.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

My friend's beautiful 8-year old white German Shepard is her service dog. She said that he was the runt of the litter and was carried around and fed in a fanny pack. They (the most fragile) all have incredibly important jobs to do in life and matter to their people.


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## Keystonefarms (Apr 11, 2012)

*Puppy update*

First I want to thank you all for your comments and advice. She nursed from mom today doing what you suggested, letting her on the nipple first and my daughter keeping the herd back, only letting a few on to make sure the nipples get stimulated. It's like a two man job. I feed this way once then alternating with the syringe next feeding. Going to try introduce the bottle again because the syringes seem to only last a few times and then they get sticky and won't release the formula slowly. I went to the drug store to get the small syringes but they only gave be two .I am just so thankful she is still trying to suck, I thought for sure she may have this fading thing I have read about. Tomorrow will be day eight. There was no weight gain today, but no loss either and like I said she did feed. I will keep you guys updated on her progress and again thank you to all of you
Just to add, I am under contract with the stud owner to only sell these precious puppies on non breeding contracts. Which is fine with me. I am still in contact with the owners of my last litter, which was around nine years go.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

If she did not lose weight today, hopefully you are on the right track. I would just, every single time you go near the whelp pen, try putting her on a nipple. We do that with the smaller babies in every litter. And keep doing what you are doing...letting her nurse with no competition. Will be thinking of you and praying for the wee girl.


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## schpeckie (Jun 29, 2010)

Hi there, I am also only a mom and never had to breed or raise the pups. It sure sounds like that you are doing a fantastic job with the great advice from good & experienced friends. I also commend you for your loving dedication to these precious pups and pray that everything works out for you  Sylvia


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I am sure many of us are aware of the argument that genotype leads to phenotype but that is an overly simplistic view. While it may be that this pup may not be destined to be a foundation bitch of a breeding program life inheritantly has value. Since the puppy appears to be stabilizing hopefully it can look forward to a long healthy life as a cherished pet.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

zyrcona said:


> 'Holistic' in my understanding generally means someone has no formal qualifications. An holistic doctor does not have a degree in medicine; an holistic nutritionist is not a qualified dietitian. Often people who self-designate as 'holistic' are quacks and charlatans.


That's an interesting take on it. Around here, holistic doctors and veterinarians still have their MD and DVM (at least the ones I've seen and visited) but differ from traditional vets and doctors in ther dedication to treating the person or animal as a whole being rather than simply treating symptoms with pills. Often they look to find the cause of an issue and address it as part of treatment, they consider diet, environment, and a variety of factors in diagnosis and treatment in a way that traditional practitioners do not.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I agree with CharismaticMille on the "holistic" --- my "holistic" vet is a DVM, but also has studied other practice methods (less conventional/mainstream) such as acapuncture, other therapies, nutrition (most vets didn't study nutrition) and are able to look at the full picture and "add value" beyond a traditional conventional vet. When I think of someone taking a holistic view, I tend to think it's one where all options are considered. My holistic vet was one of the top in the country, and she retired to Arizona last year -- she was great and had the DVM as her base, and brought lots more to the table --- much prefer that approach before dispensing meds, etc.

Never heard the term "holistic" as it relates to training, only to medicine actually.


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

I guess there's nothing to stop people with qualifications from calling themselves 'holistic' also. But so far as I'm aware, there is no qualification one can do to gain the right to use 'holistic'. It's just a marketing term.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't know that there are any formal qualifications required to be a dog trainer anyway. I'm not aware of any legislation that would prevent me from putting up an advertisement tomorrow calling myself a dog trainer with over two years' experience.

Apologies for diversion from topic.


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## roulette (Feb 18, 2011)

For the OP, many good suggestions on bottle feeding here:
Leerburg | Bottle Feeding

Hope your little girl picks up some steam, many infants struggle at first. I commend your dedication to help her get the nutrition she needs to hold her own.


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## Ladywolfe (Jan 11, 2012)

Agreed. Already have. Anyone who wishes to discuss these issues or topics with me via pm, please feel free, so other people can ignore them.

Wishing all the best for this entire littler, and special well wishes to the two little pups. I certainly commend the OP for all her compassion and hard work.


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## Liafast (Apr 9, 2011)

OP...I have helped weak puppies by giving them a few drops or oral glucose. (you can get it at any drug store with the diabetic supplies..it is a liquid.) It increases their blood sugar so they are able to nurse stronger. Thank you for trying so hard to help this little baby. Its breeders like you that care for EVERY life that they bring into the world because they are responsible for it. Good luck with the little baby and please let us know how it does.


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## schpeckie (Jun 29, 2010)

It seemed that this post got off the real topic a while ago, so I would like to bring it back and ask how the pups are doing? We are all concerned for these little babies and as well for you and your family! Sylvia


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

I want to thank the one (and ONLY) person who reported anything on this thread (and just today, btw!!) I was unaware of this thread's existence until the report. The thread is closed. It will be moderated (but since there is value in some of the off-topic comments, those will be moved to another thread) Once the thread is back to its original topic, it will be reopened.

Since the PF only has ONE moderator - and I can't be on the forum 24 hours a day - I do appreciate the members making me aware of things like this - I only wish it would have happened a little sooner.

Barb


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

OK - thread is being reopened for civil, helpful comments for the OP (helpful IMO does NOT include telling her she should not be helping her pups... if a member feels an uncontrollable need to share that type of advice, please do it via PM so the OP can take it or leave it and the rest of the forum members do not have to become involved.)

I, for one, am hoping the little ones thrive and grow. Please keep us updated on their progress, Keystone!

Barb


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## Keystonefarms (Apr 11, 2012)

*Puppy update, one week, one day*

Hi everyone, first I want to say thank you again for all the ideas and suggestions, not only for me but for the future, because now when someone in need, like I was will have access to all these wonderful ideas,recipes, and suggestions. I know when my little one was really bad I searched for the same problem, and I did find some helpful threads, but now there will be even more ideas, and the more the better. 
Peter "pita" now, is still fine, I think her sucking is getting stronger, with her head actually bobbing now. I still need to be there every feed, because like I said before if I don't get there at first, she doesn't stand a chance on her own, same with another tiny one but the other is still much stronger then Pita. If I miss the beginning I revert to the bottle. Right now it is around fifty fifty bottle verses mom.
I have made up a new batch of formula from suggestions I read on here, also I have started to use a box, like one reader suggested, which is a big help when the what I call "feeding frenzy" begins. I am keeping a chart to make sure that a pup nevers misses a feed more then once. It seems to be helping quite a bit.
I want to say I think she is going to be ok, hope I am not wrong. You really get to love these little pups in such a short while.
Anyway thank you to you all, and sorry if I don't get on here much but will 
definitely post any changes.
Cindy


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Thank you for the update - well done, and I completely understand if you are too busy to post. Hope she, and the other tiny, continue to thrive!


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

Keystonefarms,
God bless you for being there for the tiny and the weak. We all need a helping hand every now and then. I am in tear yesterday when I read your post and there were some negatives comments thrown in here. I hope you are too busy to read such negative comments.
Keep up your good work and I am sure Pita will thrive in the end. I'm sending positive thoughts to all your puppies. 
May they all enjoy life to the fullest and be the pride and joy of their Mothers!!! 
Keep us posted.

Sincerely,
Joelly and Charlie


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Thank you so much for updating us! Sounds very promising!

Every day brings you little closer to being able to give them some gruel, which will put your mind at ease and assure the wee ones are getting lots to eat.


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## KidWhisperer (Apr 3, 2012)

Yay for baby Pita!!!! I'm praying she not only pulls through, but turns out to be an amazing dog. When you can, I would love to see a picture of her. 

Stay strong; you are doing a good work.


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## dogs123 (Jun 14, 2012)

Yes, thank you for the update.....we all are pulling for the little ones!

If you get a chance in your busy schedule, we would all love to see pictures of them!

Bless you and the pups!


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## Keystonefarms (Apr 11, 2012)

*Pita update- shes now 12 days old, picture included I hopel*

Hi everyone, wanted to let everyone know that the puppies are doing great.
Pita is still gaining weight, albeit slowly, but still gaining. I have been trying to figure out how to upload a picture for a few days, couldn't figure it out on my ipad so had to use one of my girls computer. Hope this works, this is Pita and Orchid, the other small one, who doesnt look small in the picture but is quite a bit smaller then their siblings. Pita is the little black puppy.
Well here goes, fingers crossed. I am not very good with computers. Again thank you all for your great input, it probably helped to save my Pita.


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

Yayyyy!!!! Hopefully she continues to do well.


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## Paragon (Feb 18, 2012)

Keystonefarms, 

I am so happy for you!!... Regardless of anthing said, the life of this precious one is worth it!.... Send her our love! We are proud of you both! Hopefully she will turn out to be that special poodle for someone, although I know sometimes they tend to stay! She is on her way, soon she will be able to eat mush-mush, and it will help her grow! Make sure she gets as much from mom as possible. What a adorable cutie! Keep up the good work! 

Paragon


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

You and Pita are an inspiration to everyone. She and Orchid are lovely. Thanks for the update.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Well done!!! Good for you! They are beautiful!


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## papoodles (Jun 27, 2011)

Thank you so much for taking the time to update us on littlePups progress.She is just precious, and, she MUST be special as she already has us all wrapped around her little paw
If keeping fingers crossed and sending best wishes help- she'll be just fine.


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## schpeckie (Jun 29, 2010)

Thanks for keeping us updated on your pups! They are truly blessed to have a great Mom like you to keep care of these precious babies! Glad to hear they are doing alot better - I cried a few tears over these little ones! Sylvia and the Girls!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

That is absolutely fabulous! You are doing a super job. Prayers for their continued growth and health!!!!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I'm so pleased she is doing well, keep up the good work little Pita!


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