# PHR - Poodle Health Registry Information



## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

I was looking at my Foxxy's pedigree, and she came from a litter of 11.
In PHR only 4 puppies are listed under the dam. Is it only registered puppies that show up ?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I am not sure why only some dogs show up. Simply being registered with AKC is not enough as Millie is not listed as a descendant of her parents.

However, her half sister is listed as a descendant of their sire - she recently had OFA hips and other health testing done. So, could OFA have something to do with it?


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

Yes it is


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## A'n'A Mom (Dec 4, 2010)

Hi All,

You're asking why some pups are there and some pups and/or litters have been missed. These are reasonable questions and I ask you forgive me if I sound abrupt in responding to them. 

I have two questions for you.... 
1. Where do YOU think all the information comes from?
2. How do you think it gets into the database?

Where do we get pedigree data?
Short answer--anyplace we can that contains reliable data. Our sources of information include the AKC stud books, the CKC stud books, the OFA database, individual breeders, show results online and in catalogs, breeder websites, the online databases of the Swedish, Norwegian, and Finnish Kennel Clubs, sometimes the Poodle Pedigree Database, and info from volunteers who help us out with reliable data. Copies of actual pedigrees we can talk people into looking up and/or submitting to us. Sometimes Lynn and I even spend our own money buying AKC pedigrees to verify parentage. Note that many kennel clubs do NOT have an online pedigree resource.

How does it get into the PHR Database?
By hand, one dog and/or result at a time for most data. I do believe the AKC stud books can be entered electronically, but Lynn handles that.

The vehicle we use is the Standard Poodle Database which was developed by Lynn Brucker 20+ years ago and is based on Paradox database software. She entered stud book and championship information and there are pedigrees that go back into the 1800's. Shortly before her death, Susan Fleischer, the founder of the Poodle Health Registry, convinced Lynn to let the PHR use the SPD as the foundation of an online relational database of Poodle health. Thank goodness Susan was convincing and Lynn agreed!

Lynn does all the technical stuff, maintains the master database and uploads that online as the PHR Database. Eva Marie Mitchell uses the same software program to maintain the Toy/Mini Poodle Database. Both the Standard Poodle Database and the Toy/Mini Poodle Database are available from the PCA Health Officer or direct from Lynn for a $50 donation to the PCA Health Foundation. The SPD and TMPD costs are totally borne by Lynn and EvaMarie. Lynn makes and donates the disc's to PCA at no charge and there's a new version each year. The online PHRDB is updated every one to two weeks depending on the amount of data and Lynn's available time.

Lynn and Eva Marie are helped by volunteers who use the SPD or TMPD software programs and keywhack. I'm most familiar with the SPD as that's what I primarily work on.
When Lynn first created the PHRDB, her SPD had dogs from the published stud books and championship lists. So our first big project was to find and enter littermates. I've never discovered an easier way to find AKC litters than running through the litter registration numbers one at a time. I currently have 6 AKC accounts and frequently run out of lookups in a day.
When I first started helping Lynn with the new PHRDB, there were fewer than 65,000 Standard Poodles in the database. I don't even remember what year that was......maybe sometime in 2006? No, I most certainly have NOT entered all the new dogs, but there are now almost 161,000 Standard Poodles in the SPD and PHRDB!

Since the PHRDB is getting increasing interest and PHR registrations from European breeders, my last big project was entering all of the known descendants of American SP's in Sweden. I think I entered almost 1500 new dogs in the weeks before PCA. (You don't know how much I wish the AKC online database worked like the Swedish Kennel Club database!!!) 

Now I'm working on an organized plan to get as many OFA results into the DB as possible. Every month, there are approximately 250 - 300 Poodle test results posted to the OFA online database. From what I'm seeing, most months it's about 70%-80% Standards. I enter Hips, Elbows, LCP, echo cardiogram results and the DNA tests. If I run into a dog on the OFA that isn't in the SPD, I enter them based on the sire & dam info on OFA... Then I run that registration number through the AKC database to verify the correct spelling, color and birthdate and to find all the registered littermates and enter them. If a pup wasn't registered, it doesn't show up. And, for all practical purposes, once we've run through a litter on the AKC website, we don't go back 6 months later to check to see if more pups have been registered. There just isn't time. Although you can get an excel spreadsheet of OFA results quarterly, it's actually more time consuming to cross check the dogs, the results the spelling and the other data and eliminate duplicates in order to enter it into the database electronically than it is to enter it dog by dog. 

I am currently spending 6-20 hours per week entering data. Some weeks I get PHR registrations that have to be processed and the individual dog's pages created for the main PHR website, so that cuts into the time available for OFA or other projects. I have a full-time+ job and I have found at my age, I can't function without sleep. But we're working at this stuff as fast as we can...which is why I sometimes get a little cranky when people complain about the absence of test results or 'missing' litters. I know Lynn also gets data from other volunteers, but I think most of the North American ones have gone on to other things.

I got the nicest private message when I turned on the computer this morning.... someone wrote asking to volunteer. Bless you!!! (Will write to you separately.)

Now to the 'testy' part.....

How do you think we're supposed to uncover dog and pedigree information if litters and/or puppies aren't registered with an organization that makes the registration data available? We aren't mind readers. Our biggest 'black hole' is UKC. We have no source for stud books or pedigrees.....and my repeated requests to people to send me copies of registration and/or litter information has netted me about 4 litters. 
I promise you, we do not have a direct line to some omniscient Poodlegod who automatically tells us when a litter is whelped! Even the AKC stud book only shows a dog if it has a litter and then only the first time! And even if we know that a litter has been whelped, that doesn't always translate into dog's names and information. When we try to track things down through breeder's websites, do you have any idea how many breeders announce that George and Martha are the proud parents of a litter? Who the heck are George and Martha? When and how many puppies were born? I'd bet you more than half the breeder websites I go to do NOT have anything on which to base a pedigree search.

Okay, that's pretty much how it works from my end. Now we come to how you can help to make the PHR a more successful and useful tool while retaining it's reliability and medical accuracy.
1. Send accurate, verifiable data.
2. Understand what the test results mean and how to use them.
3. Spread the word about PHR and what a valuable tool it can be. Tell your vet, your poodle owning friends, your puppy buyers.
4. If you can promise to be honest and completely objective about what data you enter and have some time, volunteer to help enter data.


Whew! Didn't intend to get this involved this afternoon as I have a blog for work that needs to be created and posted for tomorrow morning! And I need to start December OFA results and send January results to Lynn tonight.

Again, if you have pedigree data to send me, please send it to my PHR email....there's the chance I'll miss it here or on another Poodle group. 

nancy phrdatabase org (insert the usual @'s and .'s)

Cheers,
Nancy


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## Gorky (Jul 14, 2009)

Nancy, I know every time I contacted PHR you were thorough and consoling sometimes quite late in the evening. Thank you for that by the way. Record keeping and researching can be a thankless task. It really takes the owners and breeders to contribute more information on their part. Education is the key to making sure that the PHR is more known and this forum can help promote this resource.


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## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

That is a lot of research, and I know exactly what you are saying about George and Martha. I have noticed the same while looking at websites.

The work you do is so awesome and appreciated by so many. Thank you so much for all the time you dedicate to the breed.

Foxxy's breeder handed the registration papers to the puppy owner and expected them to send them in. From the looks of it I was the only one who did so, as the other 3 were the ones that and her son kept.
Baldr's breeder registered the litter herself and held the registration until the spay/neuter papers were given to her.
I think that the breeder should register the litter, that way the information will be more accurate.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

Nancy- this is great info. I am a new poodle owner. Do you have a snail mail addy. I can photo copy my dogs pedigree & send it to you. I really don't know how PHR registers the true identity of a size. Like my dog I REGISTERED with AKC & UKC as a MINI but her dam is an oversized toy & from the little information I have gathered from that side they are toys. On the sire he was to be a "toy" but is 14" & I think possibly they registered him as a Mini.

Now the AKC ONLY go by height limit so just by the mere cutoff of height limits all 3 should be registered as "Mini". But on Poodle Forum & I am sure other forums no many of the dogs that come strictly from "toy" lines but oversized are OT & the same with "Mini" going into the Spoo catagory but being called OM. I do understand that there are health issues unique to each size, that the mixing of the different sizes is a "No-No" BUT how does an individual wadle through this whole height mess.

Sorry some rambling going on. If you could send me a snail mail addy I will send you off my dogs pedigree & at least 1 more from the family I got my OT/MINI from.


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