# Is this a purebred poodle?



## Simoes (Oct 24, 2021)

Trying to determine if this a purebred poodle or doddle mix.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

is all you have these two pictures? Is there any backstory?


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## Simoes (Oct 24, 2021)

Basil_the_Spoo said:


> is all you have these two pictures? Is there any backstory?


No backstory - only a reassurance from the owner that it's a poodle lol


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

It can be difficult to distinguish between a 75% poodle cross and a poodle, especially if the 100% poodle comes from a less reputable breeder. Regardless of whether the dog in the photo is 100% poodle, there appear to be significant deviations from the breed standard that suggest lower quality breeding. Do you have photos of the dog stacked? How old is he? Are you considering buying him?


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## Simoes (Oct 24, 2021)

Liz said:


> It can be difficult to distinguish between a 75% poodle cross and a poodle, especially if the 100% poodle comes from a less reputable breeder. Regardless of whether the dog in the photo is 100% poodle, there appear to be significant deviations from the breed standard that suggest lower quality breeding. Do you have photos of the dog stacked? How old is he? Are you considering buying him?


Absolutely no history. Only a claim that the poodle is a purebred. I've purchased a Goldendoodle puppy and this photo is the male stud that was used. To me, this doesn't look like a poodle so I'm looking for some opinions.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

No reputable breeder after spending time and money to improve their breed would mix its well bred dog with another breed.
So the result is neither parent is the best representative of its breed.
The adult dog could be a mix or a poodle with poor conformation.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Twyla beat me to it. I've known some doodles with lovely personalities, but a recurring problem with breeders who breed crosses is that they tend to use lower quality dogs as breeding stock. If he's 100% poodle, he has poor structure, and I would have serious concerns about his health history. Health in dogs is a crapshoot anyway; why play with dice loaded against you?


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## Fluffernutter (Mar 8, 2018)

I have no expertise, but for what it's worth: The flews on the dog in the second photo look much more Lab than Poodle.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

In my amature poodle owner mind, my gut tells me it's not a purebred poodle.

That dog looks really stocky.

If whoever was trying to prove it's a pure bred poodle, you would out _some_ effort into a poodle trim. 

Also, I don't think the baby picture gives us any clues either since a lot of baby fluff looks the very similar across light red/apricot poodle and golden doodle mix puppies - very straight.

The whole situation just sounds like a red flag.

Puppy Basil being a naughty girl:









A pure bred standard poodle:


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

I agree it is hard to say. If it is poodle it is a very poor example of the breed. But normal for what doodle breeders use. They tend to just use whatever they can get ahold of for cheap. If this breeder is even halfway ethical they should have health testing complete including orthopedic screens on OFA and be able to show you a pedigree for the sire.


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

If that dog is a purebred poodle, he's structurally a very poor example of the breed. Very stocky and something seems off about his backend. It might be the angle but he also seems short legged for his torso even accounting for his heavier build. Reminds me of a cocker mix tbh. But poorly bred dogs can go far afield of the standard.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I agree if it’s a pure bred poodle, it’s poorly bred. The flews, poodles don’t have flews hanging down like that.

My concern would be those back legs. They appear to be cow hocked. It could be the angle of the photo, but I think it’s real. If you look at that dogs legs they appear to be bending outward. Notice the hind paws are both sticking out. Poodles legs are straight, the paws are straight ahead.

Cow hock could have implications for hip dysplasia or luxating patellas for example. 

Do you have the option to get out of that contract? I mention this because you can probably find a well bred poodle pup from a quality breeder who does all the recommended testing, shows their dog in conformation or dog sports etc. You might pay less and you can groom a poodle to look exactly like a doodle.


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## Simoes (Oct 24, 2021)

Skylar said:


> Do you have the option to get out of that contract?


I actually purchased a hybrid goldendoodle puppy, but I can definitely back out. The reason why I posted those pics was because the breeder is claiming it's a poodle. I'm concerned if it's a mix, the puppy would be an F2 and not an F1B. F1B dog is a much better option for allergy sufferers.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Any doodle is a mix, which means there is no guarantee at all of being hypoallergenic, people can be allergic to poodles
Hypo=low not no allergies
Also hybrid is a an offspring of two different species not two different breeds within a species
Dog + coyote= coydog 
Coyote + wolf = coywolf
Grizzly bear + Polar bear= Grolar Bear
"Hybrid" dogs like designer dogs is a marketing ploy


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Looks Cocker mix to me, too. No hate for Cockers; I love them so much and had one growing up. To me, you may have received inaccurate information. However, you purchased a mixed breed knowingly going in, so really there is no concern 🙂.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

If you really want the best dog for allergies, a poodle would be a much better option. Lowest shedding, low dander, low salivating. A mix is going to be a gamble on how allergy-friendly it is. And they tend to be rough on grooming because they mat more easily due to thick undercoat from the retriever genes. They take a lot of brushing and frequent grooming appointments. Doodle breeders are like used car salesmen.


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## TK9NY (Jan 6, 2017)

A purebred poodle would be an even better bet for allergy sufferers. Just saying.

Throwing a Golden or Lab or anything else into the mix means there will ALWAYS be a BIGGER chance of allergies than if you're dealing with pure Poodle. That's just how it is, due to genetics and due to breeding practices. 

You have no history on the stud dog, you said so yourself. HUGE red flag. Danger danger. Doodle arguments aside, if you have no history on one or both of the parent dogs you are taking a HUGE chance with any future pup's health and temperament. No history means no genetic testing means potential hip/joint problems, heart problems, and who knows what else. 

I would not pay for a dog with no history, except an adoption fee from a legit rescue/shelter. I would definitely not give my $$ to a "breeder" who is using dogs with no history.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Hi and Welcome!

This is the testing that the official poodle breed club, Poodle Club of America recommends for any standard poodle that is intended to be bred. Poodles aren't "unhealthy" but each variety has some known health issues, not common, but can be life-altering if present. Standard poodles have additionally been affected by something known as the Midcentury bottleneck. This created a concentration of genes, good and not so good. Good breeders are working to remove the not so good, keep the good, and not add anything else not so good. This and much more are part of the investment those breeders put into their dogs. 
Every pure breed will have comparable official breed clubs with recommended health testing for their respective breed.
Breeding without testing suggests a lack of interest in the future for either of the breeds being crossed.


*Hip Dysplasia* (One of the following)
OFA Evaluation ➚
PennHIP Evaluation
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Health Elective* (One of the following)
OFA Thyroid evaluation from an approved laboratory ➚
OFA SA Evaluation from an approved dermapathologist ➚
Congenital Cardiac Exam ➚
Advanced Cardiac Exam ➚
Basic Cardiac Exam ➚

Excerpts from the Poodle breed standard. 
IllustratedStandard.pdf (poodleclubofthelehighvalley.com)

Structure affects how a dog moves and can indicate a possibility of eventual health issues.


















If the breeder didn't provide proof of Canadian Kennel Club registry, whether the dog is well bred or not, then it will be hard to say whether this dog is purebred poodle without DNA testing.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

I have allergies and asthma. I would not buy a mix. You can get a well bred poodle and groom it to look like a mix, if that's what you are looking for.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

It looks like a mix to me. I don’t like the rear angulation on this dog. It looks like he might have expensive problems to fix down the line.


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## Piper Bear (Apr 12, 2021)

From my limited poodle experience, the dog’s legs in the pictures you posted seem exactly like the Cockapoo that lives in our neighbourhood. There is also a ”first-generation” golden doodle in our neighbourhood who sheds like crazy, so beware as there is no guarantee of getting a non-shedding dog from a mix.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I have to agree with Twla and the others. The poodle is a poor representative of a Standard Poodle. Personally I don't like the look of how his hip protrude out, though it could just be a poor photo. There is a lot of hype with doodles , seems everyone wants a golden doodle and will pay a lot of money for them, then brag about how much poodle is in them. I happen to know someone who will tell me over and over how much their doodle looks like a poodle and that he is 80-90 % poodle. I say nothing but really if you want that get a well bred poodle who with the right grooming can have the same look as a doodle.( if thats what your after).


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## Lesleeluvspoodles (Oct 22, 2021)

If someone else said this I'm sorry but I see cocker spaniel here? For some reasons my nerves and muscles cause pain if I scroll to much in one day. You all will get to know me. I looked at my babies parents and they are registered and appear to be full poodle to me> I'm no experent. I needed a hypoallergenic pet and just love poodles and the intelligence. I would have been happy with mix but careful so I'm one that surely could have been taken advantage of.


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## Vee (Mar 2, 2018)

My guess would be he has some golden retriever in him


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## StanleeTheDood (Oct 25, 2021)

I’d agree that’s it’s either a mix or a poor breeder. My guy is a F1BB golden doodle, from breeder who does all the proper genetics tests on the parents. He looks more purebred than that guy.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

You can obtain a test kit from the American Kennel Club or from at least five companies to test to see your dogs genetic makeup - as in what breeds are behind him/her. Just google "dog breed test DNA" to learn about test kits.


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## Simoes (Oct 24, 2021)

StanleeTheDood said:


> I’d agree that’s it’s either a mix or a poor breeder. My guy is a F1BB golden doodle, from breeder who does all the proper genetics tests on the parents. He looks more purebred than that guy.
> View attachment 483215
> 
> View attachment 483213
> ...


I agree, your dog does look more purebred lol

From all the comments, I'm pretty certain that the stud they are using is not a purebred. That being said, the puppies they are claiming are F!Bs are potentially F2s due to the stud potentially being a mix (doddle). It really does look like the breeder is potentially misrepresenting their dogs and people are not getting what they are paying for.

What started all this for me was the fact that the breeder decided to refund my deposit instead of providing documentation confirming that the dog was indeed a poodle They indicated that they could provide documentation but it was easier just to refund me. I could tell she was pretty offended.


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

If it is easier to refund money than provide documentation, that pretty much says there is no documentation.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Glad you listened to your suspicions!


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

I'm not sure if he's a mix- the grooming of his face might be part makes him look mixed, he maybe has a kind of moustache thing?
But I'm happy you got the refund, because I'm seeing evidence of saliva staining on his paws, which points to allergies; also he looks to have some significant orthopedic abnormalities in his hind legs. Both labs and goldens (among other breeds) can be prone to those, so that might indicated that he is mixed. More importantly, he does not look at all to be good or even decent stud quality.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Glad you got a refund. If allergies are the main reason you are choosing a doodle, then you probably better off going with the consistency of a purebred dog. It doesn't even have to be a poodle. Airedale Terriers, Irish Water Spaniels, Portuguese Water Dogs, and quite a few other breeds have the same non- shedding coat as a poodle.


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

I've found that the more breeds I look into the less I understand why people jump on the doodle bandwagon. There are a number of consistently non-shedding breeds that look exactly like whatever doodle mix they can dream of. As mixes there really isn't any trait you can hang your hat on with a doodle and we frequently get posters frantically seeking information on doodle specific issues that neither breed in the mix sees often enough to offer advice on or help them with.

The only doodle owners/breeders I feel like I understand are some of the bernedoodle people, because most of them will happily admit that what they actually wanted is a Bernese mountain dog that won't break their heart super early. They're desperate to avoid the short lifespans that plague that breed. If the dog doesn't shed as much its just a bonus for most of them, they just want a dog that might live to see a decade. I don't know if there's a better answer for them given that the only solution is to breed the issues out and the smaller the genepool the more that requires outcrossing. I suppose some other doodle mixes might be the result of the same issue, but that's the only group I know of where it kind of makes sense. I've heard of similar reasoning for goldendoodles and the golden retriever's high incidence of cancer, but at this point it seems clear that it doesn't work out. When I last looked their forums were flush with people saying their goldendoodles have as high or a higher incidence of cancer. Probably because the best breeders aren't going to offer their dogs up to create mixes, especially if/when their lines don't have the same problems.


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## PowersPup (Aug 28, 2020)

I remember reading about the man who crossed labs with poodles to produce a hypo-allergenic service dog. The dogs weren't popular until he came up with the cute "-doodle" term - apparently people didn't want a dog that was part poodle. I heard that he regretted ever making the cross once he saw the explosion in doodles. As a neighbor says, "Why doodle when you can poodle?"


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Simoes said:


> What started all this for me was the fact that the breeder decided to refund my deposit instead of providing documentation confirming that the dog was indeed a poodle They indicated that they could provide documentation but it was easier just to refund me. I could tell she was pretty offended.


You are so lucky, You dodged a bullet here. The conformation of that dog was so poor that the puppies might have had serious issues with its joints.

If I were you, I would look for a pure bred dog known not to shed. Look for a puppy from a quality breeder, one who does all the Heath testing, shows their dogs in dog sports to show their dogs have good personalities and are built to work and who looks for the best dog to mate their dog so they improve the breed.

It doesn’t have to be a poodle, but you can doodle a poodle with its hair cut.


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## NaturalPoodle (Jun 13, 2019)

Hi Simoes! Welcome to the Forum from a fellow Canadian, it's a great community here! 

As you can see from so many comments, poodle lovers love their poodles! Hence all the recommendations to go for a poodle lol ;-) 

I love doodles as well, and I will add one more vote for poodles as I find everything people look for in a doodle is in a poodle, only more reliably so (like the hypoallergenic, non shredding trait). They're amazing dogs. I've noticed a lot of misinformation about poodles that make people opt for a doodle, like the hybrid vigor myth. But do keep a poodle in mind, they're just as healthy if not healthier than the doodles if they're from health tested parents. A well bred poodle is never aggressive or hyper either. 

Just some friendly thoughts from a doodle to poodle convert!
All the best with choosing a dog!


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## Pat Mc (Sep 27, 2020)

Simoes said:


> I agree, your dog does look more purebred lol
> 
> From all the comments, I'm pretty certain that the stud they are using is not a purebred. That being said, the puppies they are claiming are F!Bs are potentially F2s due to the stud potentially being a mix (doddle). It really does look like the breeder is potentially misrepresenting their dogs and people are not getting what they are paying for.
> 
> What started all this for me was the fact that the breeder decided to refund my deposit instead of providing documentation confirming that the dog was indeed a poodle They indicated that they could provide documentation but it was easier just to refund me. I could tell she was pretty offended.


That's a huge red flag right there. A reputable breeder would be happy to share information on health tests and lineage.


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## Rivershack (May 1, 2021)

Liz said:


> It can be difficult to distinguish between a 75% poodle cross and a poodle, especially if the 100% poodle comes from a less reputable breeder. Regardless of whether the dog in the photo is 100% poodle, there appear to be significant deviations from the breed standard that suggest lower quality breeding. Do you have photos of the dog stacked? How old is he? Are you considering buying him?


Embark DNA test will let you know


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## georgine (Jul 21, 2018)

Simoes said:


> No backstory - only a reassurance from the owner that it's a poodle lol


No AKC papers?


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## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

Simoes said:


> Trying to determine if this a purebred poodle or doddle mix.
> 
> View attachment 483130
> View attachment 483131


looks very much like a cocker spaniel, lab, poo x

the conformation is abysmal- looks like it will have debilitating problems. I remember seeing this dog here before a few months ago—

The post was asking about that stud’s back legs and when they should breed it. Everyone told them not to but the poster didn’t care. I guess this is one of the offspring…


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Phaz23 said:


> looks very much like a cocker spaniel, lab, poo x
> 
> the conformation is abysmal- looks like it will have debilitating problems. I remember seeing this dog here before a few months ago—
> 
> The post was asking about that stud’s back legs and when they should breed it. Everyone told them not to but the poster didn’t care. I guess this is one of the offspring…


Do you mean this thread? Are Cow Hocks going to mean hip problems if this dog is...

It sounded to me like they knew there was an issue and weren’t planning to breed him.


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## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Do you mean this thread? Are Cow Hocks going to mean hip problems if this dog is...
> 
> It sounded to me like they knew there was an issue and weren’t planning to breed him.


Oh it is a different dog, they just look really similar. I think the breeder did want to breed that dog just “not for showing”. Anywho, more than likely neither one of these dogs have anything to contribute to the poodle standard and do not need to be bred (again).


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## cjkunde (Sep 5, 2021)

Liz said:


> It can be difficult to distinguish between a 75% poodle cross and a poodle, especially if the 100% poodle comes from a less reputable breeder. Regardless of whether the dog in the photo is 100% poodle, there appear to be significant deviations from the breed standard that suggest lower quality breeding. Do you have photos of the dog stacked? How old is he? Are you considering buying him?





Raindrops said:


> If you really want the best dog for allergies, a poodle would be a much better option. Lowest shedding, low dander, low salivating. A mix is going to be a gamble on how allergy-friendly it is. And they tend to be rough on grooming beocause they mat more easily due to thick undercoat from the retriever genes. They take a lot of brushing and frequent grooming appointments. Doodle breeders are like used car salesmen.


gg
Thank you for this posting. I have learned (through experience) that I am allergic to all dog breeds except for pure-bred poodles. The 'poodle-mix' maintains just enough of the 'mixed' ndog DNA that I cannot tolerate them (oskin reddening and itching as well as breathing problems for me). In a 2-seater car for 30 minutes with a poodle mix--I'm ready for an 'emergency visit' to the nearest hospital. In the last 35 years, I was wrongly informed (by the dog's seller) regarding the DNA of a chosen puppy that I had just purchased and was in the process of bringing home. From now on, unless the poodle has AKC documentation, I will have it tested for its DNA.


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## Lily's Mom (Nov 26, 2021)

I agree with the others, just get yourself a purebred poodle from a reputable breeder. You will be much happier in the long run!


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