# From pet grooming to REAL grooming: standard's lamb critique please



## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

I'm originally PetSmart trained, and any Poodle Knowledge I've gleaned is from studying other groomers, trial and error with my dozens of mini poodle clients, and reading online. I want to further my education as a stylist and gain the technique to master the REAL styles, which is why I am getting a standard of my own. I want to do things right, so please critique!

If you click the thumbnail you can see how her leg hair still doesn't look quite right. This photo is from the first time I groomed her, and this was actually my first white standard client. The black standards I'd worked with in the past had much coarser coats that fluffed easily and beautifully. Paloma's legs remind me of good maltese hair, it kind of pouts and hangs there instead of fluffing nicely. This, coupled with her tendency to dance when I'm scissoring her legs, makes her haircut a challenge. 

Here is my grooming method: I use San Bernard's Purify and their Whitening shampoo, and I use a recirculating hydrosurge. I shampoo, rinse, shampoo again, and apply on top of shampoo a very diluted mix of Raintree's Remo with a cap-full of concentrated quicker slicker, and rinse very very thoroughly and carefully. 

For drying, she is lightly spritzed with diluted quicker slicker and I use a heated fluff dryer and two force dryers with the nozzles off (I have pretty big hands). I dry her completely by hand and slicker brush out whatever small tangles she has using the fluff dryer to separate the hair. Her owners instructions are a #1 (metal combs) lamb with full, hand scissored legs and topknot, don't touch ears. I prefer to blend my patterns as seamlessly as possible. I started a crest pattern, which you can't see yet, because I personally don't care for the sudden cliff-drop from the TK the previous groomer had done. 

This is the same method I use for a bichon client, who gets almost the exact same cut, and his fur never looks hangy. I'll post his pic too. So is the problem her hair, my method, or what? Please excuse her stack, she likes to crouch sullenly once I start working on her legs.

Paloma St Poodle

Bichon


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## Cameo (Feb 5, 2010)

Well, I think you did a good job!

One thing I can point out, she's to heavy around the bum. You need to take that area down with the same comb that you did the body in and then skim off as you move down the leg (think schnauzer pattern without definate separation). 
Another thing, are you using a scissoring spray? I'm not a big fan of QS because it tends to make a soft coat floppy. Try the 4 style by IOD for scissoring and it will make the coat really stand up for you. The Chris Christiansen Thick n Thicker is great too (but not for a scissoring spray). 

Here's a White S'poo that I do that will show how to take the back down short and then blend with scissors.


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

Ah! Thank you! I knew I was doing something funky with the hip pattern. Most groomers that I've seem to aim for an overly pronounced, not-quite-right bastardization of a town and country combined with a lamb after a liquor-tainted night. I started blending the very round hip because I hated the results I was getting, but I knew there was something still off. I see exactly what you're talkinf about.

I'll nix QS on my curly clients, I was starting to suspect it was part of the problem. God, I love that poodle you posted. I love standards and I can't wait to know what I'm doing! Anything else you see? Nevermind her nails, I hadn't grinded them yet.


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

she looks good! The only thing I was going to point out was the hips too, but Cameos pic said it all! lol. Definitely think of a 'schnauzer' style hind leg, keep the 'line' a bit higher than on a sch, and skim it off with the comb, but if you think of the SHAPE you cut into a schnauzer leg you'll get it perfect. Do it short down the BACK of the back leg too; same as a schnauzer. 

Other than that she could do with a little more hair on her legs to make it 'pop' a bit more, but if she likes full legs then that won't take long! If they're longer they'll appear fuller. Paris has hanging crappy hair too, she just has lots of it. LOL!



Getting your own poodle will be THE single best thing you can do for your grooming skills!!! I tell ya, it wasn't until I had Paris to play with that I started to be able to REALLY come into my own. Before then I was "just a groomer"; you know a little scissoring on bichon legs and heads, but basically everything else was done short. Certainly no STYLE or flair!!! You will LOVE having your own poodle...


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

Flyingduster, I've been stalking your grooming photos since I discovered this forum.they are truly inspirational, and a big part of my decision to learn and perfect my "traditional" styles before branching out to the japanese and thai-style grooming.

You mentioned that her legs need more length to really 'pop'. I've been trying to restrain my over-eager scissoriing hand and JUST trim and neaten the excess hair, but I tend to overdo it. Paloma's dancing and brattiness don't help matters. I didn't realize I was doing a "tight" lamb trim til you mentioned the lack of fullness, and now I will work on it.

Is it just me or does a white standard tend to be the ultimate test of a groomer's skill? Black standards seeem much more forgiving, but whites display every fault and hasty scissor-chop. Even white minis are much easier to disguise uncertainty on. I adore a challenge, and am head over heels for this particular girl. She's hyper and reactive and tends to push one's buttons if given the chance... but she's an angel and knows she's pretty. Her owners are sooo mean and rough with her, but so long as I'm calm, she behaves sweetly. I wish she were mine.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

FunkyPuppy said:


> AhMost groomers that I've seem to aim for an overly pronounced, not-quite-right bastardization of a town and country combined with a lamb after a liquor-tainted night.


I don't groom, so nothing to contribute, but this did make me spew coffee out of my nose :rofl:.


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

FunkyPuppy said:


> She's hyper and reactive and tends to push one's buttons if given the chance... but she's an angel and knows she's pretty. Her owners are sooo mean and rough with her, but so long as I'm calm, she behaves sweetly. I wish she were mine.


Ohhh, that's so sad. How could they be mean to that pretty girl?


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

beautiful dog and beautiful groom!


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

Her owners are an elderly couple who have been through many, many training courses and anyone can see that their only problem is lack of patience. The guy drags her around on a prong collar, jerking her back anytime she jumps around or shows excitement. I just love her, she is completely unfazed by her dad's angry treatment. The receptionists have seen him submission roll her out of anger as well. As soon as I come up to get he, she greets me happily and walks with me, no pulling or hyperactive behavior whatsoever. The calmer and more detached I act, the better behaved she is, but if I seem uncertain or emotional at all, she'll start testing me. She kind of reminds me of my 2 year old...


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## Ann Mc Keon (Feb 9, 2011)

*blended lamb*

I have attached a not great photo of a min in blended lamb trim, done by one of my students, this is her second attempt at a poodle so good job I think, if you look at her hocks there is more hair on the back, to give angulation, if you trim the hair around the foot, it gives you a line to trim out from on the hind leg to give this shape, then tight enough behind the leg, where it bends going up towards its pin bone and then angled back again towards hip bone, hope that makes sense and has not mixed you up


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

Thank you, this looks very similar to the way I do my minis... somehow, when I have a standard, the size of the dog seems to overwhelm my personal sense of style. That mini stacks so nicely.. paloma is so stubborn, she makes her thighs look more thunderous than I intended.

I can definitely see what you mean about the back legs. I knew there was something wrong with them and all of the comments have really helped. I've nearly perfected my mini rear ends, and now I'm just hoping for a new standard client to show off what I've learned. I lost paloma when I left that salon.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

I hate those prong collars, and on a POODLE?? That's horrible.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Funky, That bum and thighs has been a real issue with my pet groomer. She ALWAYS wants to make her hips fluffy just like the picture you posted. I ALWAYS have to ask her to keep it shorter on the sides and straight down on the rear. Mine had a total bubble butt until I made a big deal out of it. She finally has it better, but they must train you guys to make bubble butts and thighs! Keep it short there. They look SO much better.  Also, the tail- you have to shave the tail all the way down to show where it joins the dog. I guess most have bad tail sets? Maybe that's why they hide where it joins, but if the dog has a pretty tail show it off.


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

grin. when I look back at poor Paloma and her juicy thunder thighs I was once so proud of, I have to laugh. then cringe in embarrassment! it's been almost a year since that photo and that old-fashioned grooming style, and thanks to this forum and petgroomerforums.com, I have improved by leaps and bounds! I'm having to reign in my rear angulation at times, as some clients aren't ready to meet the future of grooming, but in general I've made a sizeable name for myself and the salon i work for with my 'fancy', unique, and creative-style grooms. I have toy poodle people in droves asking how to get an HCC on their dog after seeing Bonzai in her 'puppy continental'. I've talked a dozen shave down clients into trying the Miami, and I'm trying to talk one favorite of mine into growing her Apricot out into a Scandinavian. 

I'm up late tonight packing a barebones grooming kit for my banding/wrapping lesson for Bonzai in the am with a local Master Groomer. I'm so excited!

And so you know, outwest, many groomers confuse the Town and Country with the Lamb. I was taught a more blended pattern, but switched to the local, poofier version when I moved to Nm. I knew that the round hip looked awkward back then but couldn't figure out why. it wasn't until googling for photos that I discovered angulation and uncovered a whole world of grooming I'd never considered! 

have you taken your groomer photos?


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