# New SPOO puppy: so disappointed



## SpacePoodle (Mar 3, 2018)

Hey all. I acquired my first Spoo ever several months ago. Male from health tested, show lines (grand champion pedigree)....But I am so completely disappointed in him. The dogs I've had in the past were loving and we immediately bonded. This guy is aloof, responds to me if I have food or a toy, seems to have a high prey drive, i.e., he growls and jumps up on me, slams into me, and bites my clothes. And walking him is a constant fight...He pulls on the leash, in spite of all my efforts and those of a trainer.
He's six months now. We've been going to puppy school for months, I socialize him all the time, spend most of my day alongside him, training, rewarding, exercising, providing challenging games etc. But it doesn't seem to matter. He shows no love, little interest in anything but food or toys, and no progress in terms of behavior.
It's been a dream of mine to have a SPOO...I feel I've made a huge mistake. I'm crushed.
Note: the breeder i got him from does not do Volhard testing, but she said he had a great, gentle temperament, and when I got him at 10 weeks he seemed fine...a nice, cute pup.
If you have any advice or insight, it would be appreciated.


----------



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

SpacePoodle, I'm so sorry for your disappointment  What I am hearing is that you are finding it difficult to bond with your boy. The training stuff is challenging too, but the lack of a bond is the hardest part?


----------



## SpacePoodle (Mar 3, 2018)

I love him, so don't understand why he could not care less for me. I'm heartbroken.


----------



## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

Sorry to hear that, SpacePoodle. At six months, he's young enough to rehome and hopefully get back whatever you paid for him. 

I wish I had done that with my cat. I got him as a kitten and he never became the cuddly companion that I thought and hoped he would. I kept waiting and trying, and he's still an aloof couch potato that hates being picked up and has low tolerance for being petted more than a minute and will try to bite. He's 4 years old now. I contacted a Siamese rescue about him a year ago but they said his aggressiveness was a liability and turned him down. So I feed him and talk to him; he likes to lie near me sometimes and will meow back if he feels like it, likes 3 or 4 pats on the head and he's happy, and he doesn't bother my poodle, so he's here to stay unless I miraculously find someone who just wants another breathing being in their home. 

Some pets, like romantic partners, simply don't work out, and trying to force the kind of relationship you want is waste of time that's better realized sooner than later. Wishing you better luck with your next poodle or dog, you deserve one that can give as well as receive your love and affection.


----------



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Vita said:


> Sorry to hear that, SpacePoodle. At six months, he's young enough to rehome and hopefully get back whatever you paid for him.


You can't do that with a show breeder poodle. The contract almost always states that you have to return the dog to the breeder. 

It took me a while to bond with my dogs. Maizie was a VERY independent puppy, never cuddled (was way too busy getting into mischief), but by a year old she started getting more affectionate. Now at three years old she is extremely loving. 

I would contact your breeder and have a heart to heart and see what you want to do. It sounds like the puppy may be more suitable for a very active, performance type home. But if _you love him_ and are willing to work with him, I can almost guarantee you that you'll bond with him in time.


----------



## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

The bond with our boys took longer than we expected. Apparently I didn't make notes in my journal but it was a few months with us before they started choosing to cuddle and generally show love back. BUT once they started, there is no move without one or both boys in front, beside, behind, under or on us  When we talk to them, they now look into our eyes, heads tilting, looking like they so much want to talk back. 

Your description of his puppy behavior sounds pretty familiar to me. Somewhere along the way though, they chose us back. I wasn't sure anything like this was going to happen. It did  

Like zooeysmom said, if you love him and want to keep trying, it's almost a guarantee that the love will be returned.

I'm not saying your feelings of disappointment are a cause, but he must feel it as an effect. I don't know how to advise you to manage that, but if you can let it go somehow and just find some more silliness to share with him, it could help him relax. Adjustment to a new life takes longer for some of us.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Lily and I distinctly disliked each other more than not for the first 15 months of her life. She is totally my heart dog though and we have done wonderful things together. Getting to where we are took getting through her mouthing me mercilessly, ripping clothes, etc. etc, etc..... When she was young I dreaded walking into the house because I just did not want to deal with her craziness. There were many days where I wondered why I had ever wanted her, and I waited over 20 years to be able to have the home and schedule to give her a good life. It was very upsetting and disappointing. One day I pulled into the driveway and instead of going inside I took a walk and did some deep breathing and stretching to let go of my tense anticipation. I walked in clam and was greeted by a calm dog. Our relationship was transformed when I had a light bulb moment of understanding how sensitive she was to my feelings. Smiling on the outside but being annoyed, disappointed or otherwise not matching your demeanor to your real state of mind is very confusing to dogs.


Lily was approaching seven when we brought Javelin home. We had already earned many of the titles we have and had been to rally nationals once. I knew he would be a great dog for me, but my feelings about him were pretty lukewarm and in some ways I kept myself detached from him because I was working hard to make sure Lily and Peeves knew they weren't being replaced. This isn't to say that I didn't devote a lot of attention to him. I certainly did. Despite my detachment he bonded very very strongly to me and now I have a fabulous and deep relationship with both of them.


Poodles are very sensitive. I know you love your dog, but I can also pretty much promise you that he knows you are disappointed even though you are probably working hard not to show it. 



I hope you can find a way to get the bond that is so wonderful when dog and owner click with each other.


----------



## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Well I just wrote a long reply but got bumped off now its gone 
What kind of training are you doing? pet store or actual trainer?
Are you using a pinch collar?
Renn has a nice structured walk and no longer pulls at all. Though there are times he gets excited but I put him back in his place. We do structured walk with heeling/sit/stay while I walk around him, circles each directions. Then we do relaxing walk where he can just sniff.
He is mostly tethered to me in the house because of my husbands health otherwise I think he would already be more calm in the house off leash. But we work on it when hub is sleeping or string.
Renn use to jump on me and tear my skin where it would bleed at that time I thought I made a mistake. But I corrected him and now we are good.
Get a pet convincer, some don't like it but it s just a puff of air, not to close to the dog but about 8 inches, he will stop jumping on you and your will not need a harsh correction. Renn is now 10 months, he has become a 1 person dog, not something I wanted but it is so because I did all the training and didn't take him enough strange places. As long as he is next to me he is fine. At 6 months your guy is still a puppy and his training hasn't clicked. In the beginning I tried the positive reenforcement training, it did not work. I had to go back to basic training with correction. He wears a pinch collar, honestly he doesn't really need it now but its more for me now if he suddenly gets excited he won't pull hard enough to knock me down. Though he walks nice and will sit and let someone pet him there is no telling that he won't suddenly leap up so I keep it on him. He isn definitely my dog and loves only me. I wish he loved someone else in this house he doesn't he tolerates them and loves them if I'm not present. Your guy has a way to go. I'd find a different trainer to work with not a pet store , don't know what kind of trainer you have. If your truly disappointed I'd return him to his breeder. These guys are the smartest dogs I've ever owned and they can easily train you . You have to be the leader so that they respect you.


----------



## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

You've had some great advice, but I'll just add that my girls didn't do a lot of cuddling as pups either. I think your pup sounds pretty normal, he's only 6 months old. I wouldn't throw in the towel, it sounds like you're doing just fine to me.


----------



## rkj__ (Dec 24, 2017)

My spoo is about 11 months old now, and very recently, I've noticed that he has started to seek affection from me a little bit more than before. 

I'd say 6 months is too early to come to conclusions about your puppy's personality.


----------



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I agree with the others, six months is definitely too early to measure your dog’s bond with you.

Six months is very young, and being excited, jumping, biting, pulling on the leash are all normal puppy behaviors. He might be a little more active than you bargained for, but this is all trainable. Are you doing puppy classes ? This might be a good way to see what other puppies are like while training your dog. You might realize you’re luckier than you think when you meet other puppies...


----------



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Dechi said:


> I Are you doing puppy classes ? This might be a good way to see what other puppies are like while training your dog. You might realize you’re luckier than you think when you meet other puppies...


Haha, that is so true. I'm always so grateful to have my dogs any time they're in a class with unruly dogs!


----------



## Dina (Jan 24, 2016)

Hugo was very alof as a puppy as well. He never ever gave kisses, never came up to you for cuddles, would come when called and you can pet him but he never tried to instigate it. Now at 2 years he is a total love bug and wants to cuddle anytime he can. He loves to sit with his back facing the couch and will bend his head as far back as he can to say 'hey, i'm right here!! why aren't you petting mee!!', if he is facing you he will nudge your hands or put his paw on you. As a pup he did non of this and i was concerned since I thought males were more cuddly then females. He still isn't a kisser but will occasionally kiss your hands, I think I've only had him lick my face once. 

It takes time to grow a bond and for them to instigate affection. If you you have decided to keep working with him it will happen. 

I should mention Hugo isn't neutered, i'm not sure if that affected how cuddly he was but not until after 1.5 years did he start to be calm and affectionate, once the hormones settle down maybe?

Best of Luck!


----------



## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

A lot of people initially regret getting puppies. It's called hte puppy blues.
They are so much work and effort and at the start there are so many expectations and so many humps in training that it's at least 55% a pain in the ass to have them. 
But slowly they learn, and slowly you get less tired and frustrated, and then slowly you can bond.
Don't forget in all your effort and training to also train your dog to relax/settle. That's a very important part. And remember that if you're having a rough time you can pop your puppy into it's crate for an hour or 2, even if you're at home and not doing anything, but just need a rest from him.


----------



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Mysticrealm said:


> A lot of people initially regret getting puppies. It's called hte puppy blues.
> 
> Don't forget in all your effort and training to also train your dog to relax/settle. That's a very important part. And remember that if you're having a rough time you can pop your puppy into it's crate for an hour or 2, even if you're at home and not doing anything, but just need a rest from him.



Excellent points, Mysticrealm! I still have to crate Frosty at 2 years old to help him settle at least once a day. It is VERY helpful to get a break.


----------



## StormeeK (Aug 3, 2015)

Dewey too was aloof as a puppy. He liked doing things together but was not affectionate. He wanted to be with me and followed me everywhere but not to cuddle. It sounds like he was exactly like Hugo. However, he was neutered early ( 7 months ). I don't think we really bonded until he was over a year. Somewhere between 1 and 2 years he started becoming more affectionate. As he gets older, now 4 years, he is more and more affectionate with asking to be petted, kisses and cuddles throughout the day.


----------



## Moni (May 8, 2018)

I also agree that sometimes bonding is a mysterious process that takes quite a while. I was kinda pushed into being a poodle mama by my well meaning husband who couldn't deal with the empty house and the devastation left by losing two dogs two weeks apart. Poodle kid was not the little angel he resembled - he was tough as nails, didn't like being cuddled and held - listened only when it suited him and THE mouthiest little monster we ever had. Now we have had him for almost 6 months and things are settling. He has discovered his love for snuggling under the blanket. He knows that I will not tolerate endless mouthing and goes to bring himself a chewy. He loves being held - although he needs his independence. He shines as a greeter and when we are in crowds. 
In other words it took time on both our sides to mesh our styles. It really takes many months getting to know each other - each dog is a whole new being. It may just be too early to give up - however if your mind is made up you have to do what is right by you and him. If you feel that you simply cannot go on - go out and find him another place. It is a really hard decision but maybe you already made it?


----------



## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Don’t give up! I changed breeds from Scottish Terriers to a poodle and it was a shocker. Scottie’s are very aloof and also way down on the dog IQ rankings. I would have been lost without PF and an excellent trainer. Buck was all about himself, mouthy as hell, cute, but exhausting. I don’t remember him being a licker or a cuddler at all as a puppy. He was full of insistent demands, curiosity and mischief, still is. A sense of humor, hanging onto the incremental milestones of training, like potty on command, carry you forward. Also, some humility because poodles are the Ferrari of dogs. My dog has been obsessed with me since he was allowed free range in the house, he eventually became a licker, which I do not like, a warm sofa buddy, and a too cozy occupant of our bed.


----------



## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Well said and I 100% agree.


----------



## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

I've never had a dog (or a cat except the current one) that didn't bond me instantly, so what others have said here is completely alien to me. 

I don't know if this matters but I've always sat quietly and let the dog/puppy or cat come to me and choose me, and if it seemed to like me, it was a match. 

I didn't do that with my cat as a kitten b/c none of them came over; I hindsight don't think the owner handled them enough, and to this day he's sort of semi-feral even though he's never stepped a foot outdoors.


----------



## spicandspan (Apr 21, 2018)

Vita, I also have a semi-feral cat. I know he was handled a LOT as a kitten by 2 children. He just doesn't like people that much. But my family loves him anyways.


----------



## mashaphan (Sep 4, 2014)

I have said it many times before-Puppyhood is not for the faint of heart. I had not had a puppy since 1999 when i got Otter,at 9 wks,in Feb 2017. I was much younger then!:2in1: Spoos are a WHOLE different ball game from whippets,too. I frustrated VERY easily,and said MANY MANY times, "I don't like him,and I CERTAINLY don't love him!" But,we forged ahead, and today (nearly 2 years old) he is completely bonded with me. It takes time,patience,and some level of maturity of the pup.Don't despair,it will come!:tea:

Martha,Che and WildMan


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

martha I am very glad you chimed in here about your experience with Otter. I know you two have had a bumpy road and that your expectations have been different from your experiences, but as you note persistence builds the relationships and behaviors we want.


----------



## SpacePoodle (Mar 3, 2018)

Dechi said:


> I agree with the others, six months is definitely too early to measure your dog’s bond with you.
> 
> Six months is very young, and being excited, jumping, biting, pulling on the leash are all normal puppy behaviors. He might be a little more active than you bargained for, but this is all trainable. Are you doing puppy classes ? This might be a good way to see what other puppies are like while training your dog. You might realize you’re luckier than you think when you meet other puppies...


Have been doing puppy classes for 3 months in a high quality program. My dog is the most unruly ... high prey drive ... won't focus on me. But out in the real world, He's worse.


----------



## SpacePoodle (Mar 3, 2018)

mashaphan said:


> I have said it many times before-Puppyhood is not for the faint of heart. I had not had a puppy since 1999 when i got Otter,at 9 wks,in Feb 2017. I was much younger then!:2in1: Spoos are a WHOLE different ball game from whippets,too. I frustrated VERY easily,and said MANY MANY times, "I don't like him,and I CERTAINLY don't love him!" But,we forged ahead, and today (nearly 2 years old) he is completely bonded with me. It takes time,patience,and some level of maturity of the pup.Don't despair,it will come!:tea:
> 
> Martha,Che and WildMan


I've raised numerous puppies ... terriers, mixed breeds, etc. I guess when I decided on a poodle, searched for one with low prey drive and therapy dog potential, I thought I'd have at least have some of the basic temperament i was looking for.


----------



## Suzysue (Feb 3, 2016)

In Mini's Obedience 1 class there was a beautiful white spoo that sounds like yours. In the first class the trainer put up a barrier between the white spoo and the dogs on each side. This helped the dog to settle down and she had the dog only practice being quiet. The next class the dog was better, not perfect but better. I found out that the trainer had done a few one on one class at the dog's home. This allowed the dog to learn without the distractions of the other dogs. By the end of the class the dog was under control. 

The other thought is to look into Susan Garrett's training. Her games improve your relationship with the dog. I am doing her games with mine and our relationship is a lot more fun.


----------



## ItzaClip (Dec 1, 2010)

Your dog is exactly the kind in look for. But I am structured and consistent in my environment. They start out with no freedom to make bad choices or habits..
I should link you video of Vogue in agility class. All she did was bounce up and down and try to attack her toy. So I used that. 
* Best thing I like about recallers is it gives you the ability to know exactly why your dog does something and how to fix it* 
I did Susan Garrett recallers program. Best thing I have ever done and I'm an experienced trainer of horses and dogs, been through numerous courses and a very adept clicker trainer. The games have made a bond and my recall if to die for. Even 5 years later with two businesses, two poodles, moving my parents, both my businesses and the biggest tradeshow of the year my dogs have been getting exercise but lacking on the mental. I can rely on my foundation of games and pick any game to get them back in the zone with me




SpacePoodle said:


> Have been doing puppy classes for 3 months in a high quality program. My dog is the most unruly ... high prey drive ... won't focus on me. But out in the real world, He's worse.


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

SpacePoodle said:


> I've raised numerous puppies ... terriers, mixed breeds, etc. I guess when I decided on a poodle, searched for one with low prey drive and therapy dog potential, I thought I'd have at least have some of the basic temperament i was looking for.


This puppy sounds like such a poor match for what you were looking for. I'm really sorry for the situation you are in. I know you are forming a bond with him, but it were me, I would most likely take him back to the breeder and find one that is a much better match. Spoos are challenging puppies, but yours sounds off the charts wild and like he should be doing FCAT, agility, or whatever other intense canine sports. Whatever you do, you have my full support. I couldn't live with anything that wild.


----------



## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

When Noelle was six months old, I was positive I'd picked the wrong service dog candidate. She had a shorter attention span than any puppy in my obedience classes. Bringing Noelle to class was embarrassing. Other puppies her age could sit and stay. Noelle was so cranked up in class I was lucky if I could get her attention for a blink. The trainer said heel, and Noelle dragged me behind her as if I didn't exist. 

I choose this puppy to be my service dog? Really? Noelle bounced more than a SuperBall slammed by Serena Willams's racket. I can't do this. This dog is insane. We flunked out of obedience school. We flunked out of a second obedience school. We flunked out of a third obedience school. 

I thought Noelle was too wild to train. In reality, Noelle was too immature to learn the lessons I wanted to teach. Things that were impossible at six months became possible at 18 months. Things that were impossible at 18 months are now starting to emerge. Noelle will be three on Halloween. Today Noelle amazed me. Absolutely blew me away.

It was early afternoon and my husband and I have a ritual. We get the dogs completely cranked up with excitement, and then send them outside to play ball. Francis was leaping and barking. Noelle was spinning in circles. Do you want to go outside? Do you want to play ball? Are you ready? Are you ready? Everything was like always. Except my blood sugar plummeted. 

My husband flung open the door and Francis took off outside. Noelle had to choose. Do I go outside and play fetch with Dad? Or do I stay in the kitchen with mom and alert her to low blood sugar? A year ago, she would have ran outside to play. Six months ago, she would have gone outside to play. Today, Noelle spun around away from the wide open back door and tagged me. "Mom, you're low." While Francis frolicked outside with her ball, Noelle stayed with me until I was ok to go outside and play.

The dog who flunked out of three obedience schools did that today. She put my need ahead of her own heart's desire. I never imagined Noelle would do that when she was embarrassing me in class after class. But we got here. We got here because I slowed down and realized Noelle was too immature to learn what I was trying to teach. Because I gave her space, Noelle is maturing at her own speed in her own way and making me proud every day.

Your puppy is six-months-old. I don't believe he's the wrong dog, and that he'll never become a therapy dog. I believe deep in my soul that he's too immature to learn what you're teaching. Your puppy is too young for you to decide he can't be a therapy dog. I believe he can be an amazing therapy dog if you have the patience and slow your expectations. Let him mature at his own speed and you'll be blown away by how far he goes.

"Anyone who thinks that all fruits ripen at the same time as strawberries, knows nothing of grapes.” ― Paracelsus

"Anyone who thinks all puppies mature at the same rate, knows nothing of poodles." ― Click-N-Treat


----------



## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I've raised numerous puppies ... terriers, mixed breeds, etc. I guess when I decided on a poodle, searched for one with low prey drive and therapy dog potential, I thought I'd have at least have some of the basic temperament i was looking for.
space poodle..I too have raised many dogs and trained them. The st poodle is totally different for me he has been most challenging. I also wanted a calm temperament with hopes of doing therapy with him, just maybe visiting nursing homes. But at 11 months I know he is not that dog....at least yet..I'm giving him 3 years to be that guy before I consider therapy work he is till a baby and will act like a baby. It seems to me at least in my experience poodles are a breed of their own, maybe its their intelligence, If in the end Renn isn't a therapy dog thats ok, I love him and now he loves me too . I just don't think you're. going to have the dog you want in 6 months or even a year. I learned something some 40 years ago when I was training a german shepherd thru their club, some dogs that are very smart get bored very easily and there may be times when less training is more beneficial. Shorter sessions, incorporating it into normal behavior, having "free time" for the pup to romp and play. I had to do 2 puppy classes with that dog, later and advanced class. He by far was the best trained o ut of any dog I had. I could take him into a vet's office that was crowded, put him in a down, place a milk bone on his nose and people/dogs could step over him and he wouldn't budge. I thought in the beginning he would never learn. We had some trying times especially when I was having an addition added to my house and he chewed thru 80% of all the new studs. When I said What did you do? he came after me to bite me, rifle action I shoved my fist in his mouth. After that we were best friends.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I agree with those who have commented that their poodle was slow to mature and settle. Lily was crazy until she was almost three and Javelin at three now is starting to really collect himself quite nicely.


I think at this point you have to decide if you can work through and wait out adolescence (which is long for poodles).


----------



## PlayfulPup (Aug 8, 2012)

Click-N-Treat said:


> It was early afternoon and my husband and I have a ritual. We get the dogs completely cranked up with excitement, and then send them outside to play ball. Francis was leaping and barking. Noelle was spinning in circles. Do you want to go outside? Do you want to play ball? Are you ready? Are you ready? Everything was like always. Except my blood sugar plummeted.
> 
> My husband flung open the door and Francis took off outside. Noelle had to choose. Do I go outside and play fetch with Dad? Or do I stay in the kitchen with mom and alert her to low blood sugar? A year ago, she would have ran outside to play. Six months ago, she would have gone outside to play. Today, Noelle spun around away from the wide open back door and tagged me. "Mom, you're low." While Francis frolicked outside with her ball, Noelle stayed with me until I was ok to go outside and play.
> 
> ...


It might be all these pregnancy emotions, but this story made me cry (happy tears) 



——
All these stories are why my husband and I keep pushing out looking for a poodle. I was pretty against the idea of a fifth kid for a long time, and was all set to start getting ready for a spoo. Our fourth kid was sleeping through the night so I could handle a puppy! I had this nagging thought I tried to ignore, but couldn’t. Our dogs still have a few quarks, but really were pretty easy puppies. They never cried at night, both loved to please and were pretty good at focusing. You know, for puppies. I’ve been reading stories similar to ones on here since 2005, and know that poodles are a completely different dog than mine. My Pin is extremely intelligent and I figure that meant they would be similar but there are many other aspects to consider. Such as maturity.

Based on human family life, I’ll have time and energy to put into a pup in 3-4 years. Unfortunately that would put my beagle at 14-15 (currently she would be wonderful with a puppy) and my pin at 13-14 (who would probably just try to keep his space from the puppy) so that might mean a puppy will get put off longer. 

Anyway I’m straying off topic. Stories like the OPs give me encouragement to stick with the right path and not get excited about a puppy. I’m not going to get a perfect puppy, so I’m going to make sure my life can handle a slow maturing one.


----------



## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

I have been amazed at all the stories about poodles who were wild until 2-3 years of age. Maybe it was the bloodlines I had (Wycliffe and Bel Tor), but I never had a standard who was not pretty calm by the time s/he was a year old. It's been too many years since I've had a toy poodle, so I cannot remember about them. Zoe, my mini, is exuberant and playful and sometimes naughty, but has always been affectionate and reasonably well behaved (so long as there is no paper left around to be shredded).


From the time I got her at 11 weeks, we worked on "watch me", "drop it", "come", "no" (and "no, dammit"). All of those she did well except that "come" was conditional. It worked just fine away from home, but at home it depended upon what she thought was going to happen next. I never, ever, called her to come and followed that with something unpleasant, but she was always rather suspicious.


----------



## doditwo (Nov 7, 2017)

I enrolled my puppy (Mimi) in the Oakland Canine Circus School under a very experienced teacher (Francis Metcalf) who could also be called sensei because he’s that great... anyway he paraphrased an old saying about raising perennials and applied it to dogs like this: “the first year your pup leaps, the second year your dog creeps, and the third year the dog sleeps”.
In other words have patience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

“the first year your pup leaps, the second year your dog creeps, and the third year the dog sleeps”.

Oh I like this, and its so true!


----------



## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

I appreciate the stories of people like Click who worked through difficult puppy years and ended up with a fabulous poodle. 

But I think that some poodles are just not a good fit for some homes. So let me add two stories about successfully rehoming poodles. Rehoming is an option, but I do not mean to imply that this is the right solution for the OP. Only she can make that decision.

Bob: Those of you who have been around PF for a while will probably remember my funny stories about my bossy boy Bob. (If you'd like a Bob summary, see https://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodl...rthday-bob-15-years-old-august-12-2015-a.html.) But believe it or not, Bob's previous owners didn't like him! They thought that poodles should be obedient like their previous poodle. Well Bob was just hard wired to be a bad boy. They really did not like being bossed around by a poodle. So they took responsible steps to find a new owner for Bob. He came to me when he was 4 years old, and I was endlessly entertained by his bossy antics for 12 1/2 years. I loved that boy. So glad that his previous owners passed this funny boy on to me. :smile:

Rufus: Rufus was the most high-energy poodle I have ever met. His second owner called him the energizer bunny. And when he was 10 years old, his second owner said that he was "10 years old, going on 6 months." He didn't calm down until he got cancer at the age of 13. This high energy poodle just did not work in his first home. No one had the time to give him the exercise that he really needed. With about 3 hours of vigorous exercise a day, he was a very charming boy. I knew of the problems that owner #1 was having with Rufus, and I met a man who had recently lost his poodle. He had another dog, and he liked to give his dogs a long walk in the morning and a long walk in the evening. The walks included off-leash time running through fields and streams, chasing ground hogs and/or tennis balls. Owner #1 and owner #2 took a month to get to know each other with lots of overnight visits. When we could see Rufus's tail wagging when owner #2 came to pick him up, owner #1 was able to let him go (they really loved him in spite of not being able to provide for his high-energy needs). Rufus had a great life in his new home.


----------



## mashaphan (Sep 4, 2014)

SpacePoodle said:


> Have been doing puppy classes for 3 months in a high quality program. My dog is the most unruly ... high prey drive ... won't focus on me. But out in the real world, He's worse.


We also started puppy classes at 3 months or a little younger; still ongoing,still WildMan:ahhhhh: Now that he is almost 2,I am thinking he is going into his "terrible twos":aetsch: Last night was a disaster class,and FORGET taking him in public! He acts like he has never heard the word,seen the signal-other class buds are sure his name is "Stop it!":argh: I was so frustrated i couldn't sleep! But-there are those moments of brilliance that keep me hanging on/in. I still may never live to see him do all I want of him-or any of it-but here we are.

Only you know how much you can abide. Otter is my first Spoo,too,though I fell in love at 13. Had many different breeds,as well,mostly sighthounds. Said this too-WHOLE different ball game!:adore:

Martha and the WildMan,whose current trainer calls him "Kramer":aetsch:


----------



## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

My boy Asta was a terror during those teenage years. He flunked every dog class he went to. Please be careful when choosing classes. Their was only one class in my area and when they told me to use a choke chain on him we pulled out. Worked very hard at home on the things that were most important to me - a good recall, taking treats (he was totally a praise driven dog), being my emotional support (I suffer from bipolar), being calm when in the house (massage helped) alerting me to people at the door and knowing where to explore in the fields and woods.

That all said by two and a half to three years he settled down to be the most wonderful companion. I still call him my wild and crazy boy but now he is really mama's boy.


----------



## SpacePoodle (Mar 3, 2018)

Thank you everyone for your advice, stories, wisdom and encouragement. Prior to being the 1st time SPOO owner that I am, I think I was mesmerized by all the great things I read and heard about SPOO's....basically thinking that while there would certainly be variations between and within litters, mostly all SPOO' s would be wonderful. Reality's a real eye opener!
I'm still very sad about my reality (haven't wanted to comment because it feels better to just not think about it). I've always thought it best to bring out the best in a dog and not try to make him into something he's not. In my case, that would be doing things like hunting, lure coursing, etc. So I may experiment with these activities in the short term while holding out hope that when he matures he may be suited for therapy work. I don't think I could handle returning him now...I do love him.
I am annoyed that some breeders (mine) don't: (a) seem to know very much about the temperament of the sire, or (b) do temperament testing like Volhard on pups to match pups with owners.
Thanks again.


----------



## SMSP (Apr 5, 2018)

> seems to have a high prey drive, i.e., he growls and jumps up on me, slams into me, and bites my clothes. And walking him is a constant fight...He pulls on the leash, in spite of all my efforts and those of a trainer.


#1 So sorry to hear that you don't feel like he's bonded with you. It's natural that you want your love to be reciprocated even though other experienced spoo parents said that at his age this is natural.

#2 Sounds like he's an 'high energy' dog. 

Have you tried the following? 
a. Play frisbee with him because of his high prey drive - I have Chuckit paraflight frisbee and my pup loves it.

b. A tired pup is a happy pup. I know you want to bond with him, but if you're not able to go jogging with him, have you considered hiring a dog walker who specifically jogs with the dog? 

When you mentioned that he jumps on you, slams into you and bites your clothing it sounds like he's just seeking your attention and want you to play with him but what you need to do is expend his energy someway. 

c. What type of challenging games do you provide? 

Have you tried a 'puzzle feeder' to slow his eating/increase his eating time while engaging his mind.

Have you considered scent work, agility training, rally training - to fully engage him and tire him out at the end of the day. Again, a tired pup is a happy pup.

d. Regarding pulling on the leash: Have you considered a chest-led harness - the leash is attached to a ring located on the chest strap and when your pup pulls, the harness will turn his body around rather than allowing him to go forward. 

Have you tried a waist leash - the leash is attached to a belt on your waist instead of you holding it with your hand so the dog can only move when you move (instead of him being able to tug on your poor arm). 

Considering many spoo parents here know that his aloofness is normal, hopefully the outcome will be the strong bond that you so naturally desire. Best of luck and please keep us updated as to how things are going. I'm sure you're not the only one going through this and feeling frustrated.


----------



## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

SpacePoodle, a couple things have come to mind after patting my eyes dry from reading of Noelle's victory . I worry this could seem a rebuke to some, but it's in no way intended as such.

Someone today or yesterday posted about whether our Poodles are seen as pets or children. We come at this from different angles, but to me, something about our pets is clear. They, like children, come to us with their very own innate talents and abilities, and need our acceptance and support - and time - to develop into their very own selves. Dogs differently from humans, yet that still applies. One might say especially even in Poodles, given their specialness in so many ways.

A puppy needs love and support - and acceptance - to grow into whoever s/he is meant to be. I believe, and of course could be dead wrong, that we can train our dogs to come various degrees of close to what we want, but we cannot, and may not, determine their ultimate outcomes in advance. The Universe gives us our pets - and children - not only to share our knowledge and whatever wisdom we've acquired, but also to learn from these souls whom we husband to maturity and beyond. We help them bloom, yet they also open new doors for us.

That takes a lot of time, and as you no doubt understand, a great deal of compassion and open-heartedness. If you don't feel you can get there with this pup, then maybe reach out to Peppersb and find a great new home for your boy. Your breeder did not provide all you needed.

It's been a long time, and I'm wholly paraphrasing, but another poster wrote about how her puppy seemed unmanageable. Ultimately, she changed his diet completely, and his behavior improved a good deal. It is worth considering running the nutriscan test Lily CD RE ran on her three dogs to determine whether perhaps a food intolerance or allergy could be part of the issue, because physical symptoms may not be the only evidence of intolerance.

Also, be careful about over-exercising a puppy, no matter how enticing the idea may be. No enforced exercise, e.g., jogging, running with someone, other required exertion, until growth plates have closed.


----------



## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Sppacepoodle..I think you will get to where you want to be with your poodle. I like this forum as well s getting advise, we can also vent...sometimes that is necessary in raising a puppy, doesn't mean we don't love our pup. I train Renn on a pinch collar and I have a pet convincer (air). It works for us and the air really helped when he was jumping on me. I went to a trainer and he puffed him when jumping with a firm NO! didn't even utilize his pinch collar. (you cannot puff eyes or too close about 8 inches). Its actually the sound that gets the dogs attention not the air puff. It really helped us. Renn is still a bit fearful t times when we are out walking when he hears a strange sound but now I just treasure him while saying oh that this or that and I keep on walking, he may have give a little leap , lol but I ignore and keep on. He is getting better and better and I am sure yours will too. I wanted Renn for therapy later too but wasn't expecting to do so until he was at least 3 so I'm not thinking about it now. Part of his fear is me..I find I tend up when someone comes running up or gets to close so I did this. I didn't want him jumping or hurting anyone so I pulled back. I'm working on it. Well glad you are here and vent anytime. Many of us do, lol or at least me.


----------



## Wist (Oct 21, 2018)

I am delighted to discover that spoos take a long time to mature. 

My Tallulah, a glorious black standard, was nicknamed The Banshee, chewed everything, was seemingly incorrigible, and apparently was paying attention to anything but me. I told everyone the common wisdom of the day (1990) that she would mature and calm down at 1. 

1 came and went. Tallulah was still jumping up on little old ladies in line at the bank. And walking her still elicited this comment from all who saw us: Who's walking who? Funny. So, I said that I had been wrong about 1, and that it was actually 2! 

She improved almost imperceptibly slowly. At one point, when she was about 2, I hired a trainer who came over and, with a very authoritative air, went to put his leash on her. She didn't like that, and tried to bite him. He didn't like that and said: "You've ruined this dog! I bet you let her sleep in your bed! She's going to end up being put down and it's your fault!" OMG, it was awful. 

By the time she was 3, she was perfection. She was smarter than I and knew it. I had to earn her respect. Once I had it, and she grew up, she was perfection. She taught my other dogs, who came after her, how to be happy in our pack. She was an entirely wonderful being... after 3. 

I feel so much better about this now that I know we were actually pretty standard, so to speak.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Well said and exactly my experience too Wist.


----------



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Beautifully put, Wist :amen: My Maizie was a wild child but, at 3 now, she is perfection


----------



## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

My neighbor has two standards. She calls the older her wild child..he turned 3 and he longer utilizes his crate as he is now well behaved, albeit a little jump when he sees new people but calms down fairly quick. Her other just turned 2 and he is a calmer dog but has some anxiety issues (he is a rescue) so he needs time yet. Mine is nicknamed (by my husband) as the juvenile delinquent . But really at 11 m months he is very good jus not trustworthy, he still may teal things that do not belong to him and will jump into your lap but its only now when he gets overly excited.


----------



## Wist (Oct 21, 2018)

How I wish I'd known! It would have made all the difference. I'm glad people know now. 

My next puppy, mostly mini poodle, was already 16 weeks when I got him, and he was adopted into a home with two mature dogs... so much easier. I really didn't have to do very much because he had their good examples along with my guidance. He also had a dependent nature while Tallulah was quite independent. 

Is there a consensus of opinion re which poodles have the most difficult puppihoods, does anyone know? Tallulah was one of the great loves of my life, without question, but I'd rather not replay those 3 years now that I'M mature. ;0)


----------



## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Wist,

I am so sorry that "trainer" said that to you. Some trainers only understand forcing dogs to do things. Force does not work with Noelle. She just collapses in a heap and refuses to move. Pleasure motivates Noelle. My pleasure brings her pleasure, which leads to more fun and joy in our relationship. But, it took time for Noelle to grow and calm down. She'll be three tomorrow.


----------



## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

My last standard, Lili, was a wild child - we used to call her the Land Shark. Just when she turned a year old we got a whippet puppy. Lili immediately claimed the role of Mother and became the calmest most pleasant poodle one could ever want. She raised that whippet to be a good citizen (not a difficult task for a whippet - they are couch potatoes).


Zoe, my mini poo, is pretty wild, but since she is small it's not as aggravating. I sure will be glad when she comes home from Betty's - we really miss her antics.


----------



## Wist (Oct 21, 2018)

Click-N-Treat said:


> I am so sorry that "trainer" said that to you.


I think it was very important to him to show dominance in the situation. I think he was embarrassed to be challenged by the big poodle. He should have greeted her before attempting to put a leash on her. He should have looked at her to see how she was feeling before beginning to demonstrate his might. 

That said, I really needed to be acknowledged top dog, a position I'd never held before, and his angry hysteria (she didn't successfully bit him, after all) made that very clear to me, and his hyperbole really motivated me. She wasn't safe and I had to fix that. 

I got my act together just as she was old enough to want to work with me.


----------



## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

I have had dogs for 65 years and Poppy has been my most challenging, far and away. There have been times that I have thought I should never have gotten her and that I am a terrible Mom. At one point I thought I should find her a new home. She has presented physical and mental challenges like none other. It hasn't helped that I have had chronic pain issues while raising a wild child. It has tested my patience, my physical abilities, my brain and my heart.

Poppy is now 2 years and 8 months old and is a whole new dog in the last 6 months. Sweet, loving ( she is very independent and never was very affectionate), silly, smart (scary smart), FINALLY HAS A BRAIN and listens to me! YAAAAY! And now she is getting snuggly and very loving. I thought we would never be here and that made me very sad for a long time.

I have learned much from this wild child that I love so much. I have learned about raising challenging poodles, Rose and Iris were sooo easy, and I have learned a lot about myself.

This thread and everyone else's responses have made me realize that I have not been alone with my challenges. I still wish That my challenge dog would have come to me when I was in my 20's and had more energy and fewer health issues, but then I would not have had wisdom and patience which comes with age.

I LOVE my Poppy, my wild child, who is presently outside, in the rain, happily chasing squirrels!


----------



## SpacePoodle (Mar 3, 2018)

I thought I could gain some helpful insights into my dog's temperament by talking with his sire's breeder. I wanted to know what he (the sire) was like as a puppy, as an adult, what his parents were like, and how, if at all, his temperament might change with neutering. My pup's sire was the creation of a very highly regarded breeder (a PCA breeder of the year) and I felt that his/her input would be paramount in my decision as to how to move forward/whether to keep or return my pup. After numerous attempts, I've had no response. So what is the responsibility of the sire's breeder to one of its pup owners?


----------



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Did the sire's owner sell you the dog? If not, there is no responsibility whatsoever. The dam is just as important in making the dog's temperament anyway. What breeder did you buy the dog from? They are the ones responsible for selling you the dog and making a poor match (if they suggested or chose this dog for you).


----------



## furball (Apr 5, 2018)

Just my 2 cents, many years ago when my uncle's family moved overseas, they asked if we would take their dog (a German Spitz, an 8kg dog). He was poorly trained and he had dominance issues, he would (and had) bite me if I challenge him. So he was difficult and because he was 7 years old, it was hard to "undo" all his bad habits. Over time we have fixed his dominance problems, but he still had this independent and stubborn personality. So we just accepted he is what he is, and he's never going to be this lovely cuddly family pet. We actually got along rather well, and we actually miss him a lot after he passed away at 17. 

I guess the point I'm trying to make is, like having a child, there's no guarantee what kind of person he/she will turn out to be, so things won't always be how you have imagined. But if you try, you may find there's always a way to make it work


----------



## scooterscout99 (Dec 3, 2015)

SpacePoodle said:


> I thought I could gain some helpful insights into my dog's temperament by talking with his sire's breeder. I wanted to know what he (the sire) was like as a puppy, as an adult, what his parents were like, and how, if at all, his temperament might change with neutering. My pup's sire was the creation of a very highly regarded breeder (a PCA breeder of the year) and I felt that his/her input would be paramount in my decision as to how to move forward/whether to keep or return my pup. After numerous attempts, I've had no response. So what is the responsibility of the sire's breeder to one of its pup owners?


I spoke with the owner of my dog’s sire before I brought him home, though they weren’t the breeder of the sire. It was by introduction from my dog’s breeder. Would it be possible for your breeder to do this?

On the topic of breeder support, on advice from a local dog club member I avoided a breeder who hadn’t supported her and her spoo. This is a long-term, well known breeder, with many titled dogs. In retrospect, it was the right decision as I’ve benefited greatly from the relationship with my spoo’s breeder.


----------



## kchen95 (Jan 6, 2016)

SpacePoodle said:


> I thought I could gain some helpful insights into my dog's temperament by talking with his sire's breeder. I wanted to know what he (the sire) was like as a puppy, as an adult, what his parents were like, and how, if at all, his temperament might change with neutering. My pup's sire was the creation of a very highly regarded breeder (a PCA breeder of the year) and I felt that his/her input would be paramount in my decision as to how to move forward/whether to keep or return my pup. After numerous attempts, I've had no response. So what is the responsibility of the sire's breeder to one of its pup owners?


Have you tried cold-calling the sire's breeder? Before getting my next dog, Shilo, I cold-called both his sire's breeder and his dam's breeder, one in Minnesota and the other in New Zealand, and they both picked up the phone and were happy to give me the information and perspectives I was looking for, even though I wasn't paying them for Shilo (Shilo's breeder had Shilo's sire, but the sire was bred by someone else). If you can locate a phone number, I would simply call. Good luck!

Kevin


----------



## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

SpacePoodle said:


> I thought I could gain some helpful insights into my dog's temperament by talking with his sire's breeder. I wanted to know what he (the sire) was like as a puppy, as an adult, what his parents were like, and how, if at all, his temperament might change with neutering. My pup's sire was the creation of a very highly regarded breeder (a PCA breeder of the year) and I felt that his/her input would be paramount in my decision as to how to move forward/whether to keep or return my pup. After numerous attempts, I've had no response. So what is the responsibility of the sire's breeder to one of its pup owners?


My Sam has sired 2 litters, and I am always happy to speak to any of the puppy owners. I just had a visit a week or two ago from a family that hopes to get a puppy from the next litter. I have no idea why the sire's breeder would not want to talk to you -- lots of possible reasons. I don't think that the breeder has a responsibility to speak to you, but I find it disappointing that they are not willing to do so.


----------



## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

'm like you Viking..Renn has been and is my most challenging dog. I rather think a lot of it is me because I am older 67 and I have bad legs, feet & knees. This stops me from going out a lot, plus I find I'm just not in as great shape as I thought. But having dogs all my life I know how they change with time and its almost always for the better. Personally I would never dream of calling the sires owner, I don't see any responsibility there and they would know nothing about who the puppies were sold too. The breeder that sold the puppy could give some insight, puppies like children are also products of their environment. One of my first dogs on my own was a German Shepherd from imported sire/dam. I trained him with the local GSD club, well they trained me. Wow I thought he would never learn. He was so smart and they figured out he was getting bored with the training, we took a break, we would go but didn't expect much from him. I think we took the 2nd advanced training 2x. Well that dog turned out to be the best trained dog I think I ever had. I could go into a vets office put him in a down/stay people and dogs could walk over him. I could put a dog treat on his nose and it would stay there. I don't remember how old he was by then I think 3 or 4. We could take him hiking, my parents then had 34 acres in NYS and we would just walk thru their property off leash and he wouldn't go far ahead always checking back. Oh well enough reminiscing lol . SpacePoodle I think you worry to much, enjoy your puppy it will happen there will be ups and downs. That is life with animals. My grandmother once told me Life is not perfect, you don't always get what you want but you must learn and get what you need. Hey I think that was a song. Anyway thats my mid coffee thoughts for the day.


----------



## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

SpacePoodle said:


> I'm still very sad about my reality (haven't wanted to comment because it feels better to just not think about it). I've always thought it best to bring out the best in a dog and not try to make him into something he's not. In my case, that would be doing things like hunting, lure coursing, etc. So I may experiment with these activities in the short term while holding out hope that when he matures he may be suited for therapy work. I don't think I could handle returning him now...I do love him.


I do not think that anyone should have to live with a dog that does not bring them joy. Young poodles are extremely adoptable, so I feel quite confident that you could find a new home for him -- one where his natural inclinations would be more appreciated.

Your situation illustrates why I am so passionately opposed to breeders requiring that dogs that need to be rehomed MUST be returned to the breeder. It would be so much easier for you if you could meet the new family, get to know them, and approve the adoption only when/if you are convinced that this is really the best thing for the dog. That's what happened in both of the rehomings that I described in post #36. In the case of Rufus, the first owner NEVER would have returned this dog to the breeder. If a private adoption -- one where the two owners got to know each other -- could not have been arranged, Rufus would have stayed in home #1 and he never would have gotten the exercise that he needed. The owners would have continued to be frustrated by his over-the-top energy levels. His new home was a much better fit. 

I'd urge you to look into a private placement. Perhaps the breeder would permit this if you find a good home. Or maybe they would even help find a new owner that you could meet. I think it would be a lot easier for you if you knew that your dog was going to a home that would be just right for him, and if your dog went directly from your home to his new home. There is a Standard Poodle Rescues and Rehomes Facebook group that helps place poodles. Best wishes to you whatever you decide.


----------



## kchen95 (Jan 6, 2016)

SpacePoodle said:


> Hey all. I acquired my first Spoo ever several months ago. Male from health tested, show lines (grand champion pedigree)....But I am so completely disappointed in him. The dogs I've had in the past were loving and we immediately bonded. This guy is aloof, responds to me if I have food or a toy, seems to have a high prey drive, i.e., he growls and jumps up on me, slams into me, and bites my clothes. And walking him is a constant fight...He pulls on the leash, in spite of all my efforts and those of a trainer.
> He's six months now. We've been going to puppy school for months, I socialize him all the time, spend most of my day alongside him, training, rewarding, exercising, providing challenging games etc. But it doesn't seem to matter. He shows no love, little interest in anything but food or toys, and no progress in terms of behavior.
> It's been a dream of mine to have a SPOO...I feel I've made a huge mistake. I'm crushed.
> Note: the breeder i got him from does not do Volhard testing, but she said he had a great, gentle temperament, and when I got him at 10 weeks he seemed fine...a nice, cute pup.
> If you have any advice or insight, it would be appreciated.


Hi SpacePoodle, after carefully re-reading all your posts, I want to share the following:

Your frustration and heartbreak seem to come from interpreting your SPOO boy's willingness to respond to you only with food or toys, as his lack of genuine love for you - that, somehow, he only wants you for "practical gains." I wonder if your feeling and patience for him can change by simply altering this interpretation? The way I see it - food and play are actually THE main ways that an animal shows affection for other members of their pack. And, even think about human kids - if your 5-year-old human boy doesn't really wanna sit silently, cuddle and speak with you, but just LOVES to play ball with you, would you actually interpret that as a boy who doesn't love his mom/dad? I don't feel that your SPOO doesn't love you - he simply is into different expressions of love (play and eat) at this point in his life than the expressions that you naturally prefer. But, I don't think it's right to say that just because he only seems to love rambunctious play, that means he doesn't love you; that's HIS way of loving you!  If you see and accept his love this way, would it ease and even eliminate your disappointment? Again, I sense the true source of your disappointment is that you feel he doesn't love you - but, given everything I've read, I just don't see that as the case; clearly, he DOES love you, just in a different way from what you've anticipated.

If you realize that he does love you, LOTS, maybe then you can flip the script and see him in a much more positive light - which in turns would make him love you even more. I mean, how cool would it be to train him to lure course and see him outrun Whippets and Greyhounds?! How cool with it be to see him dock-dive with the best of German Shorthaired Pointers?! How cool with it be to show up at ANY athletic event, and see a Poodle outrun/outjump/outswim those muscle dogs? 

I really hope you give this awesomely athletic SPOO a chance into your heart 

Kevin


----------



## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Kevin has a good point.


----------



## Wist (Oct 21, 2018)

A beautifully stated good point, at that! :0)


----------



## SpinningBunnyFluff (Feb 9, 2018)

SpacePoodle, first off some {{{hugs}}} for struggling through this tough time with your poodle that hasn't gone as you hoped or expected. I'm going to share my story so that you know you're not alone and perhaps it will help you as you wrestle with making the decision on how to proceed with your Poodle.

When my son and I chose to adopt our standard poodle Snow, it was with the intention of training him to become my son's service dog to help him with his anxiety and other issues. We adopted him about 6 months before I was planning to bring a puppy home because when this puppy curled up in my son's lap I could see all the anxiety and excess energy just dissipating into thin air. It was the most calm I'd seen him in months, and I knew that this was the right dog for my son. 

Well, fast forward a year and I was at my wit's end with what to do with this puppy. We were struggling with training and the high energy and constant pogo stick bouncing of this now very large puppy was causing my son more anxiety and panic attacks rather than helping him to calm down. The winter and snow was coming and I would no longer be able to give him long stretches outside and it wouldn't be fair to him to leave him cooped up in his kennel day in and day out either. We made the decision that we needed to rehome Snow.

Just a handful of days later and my son now knew I was seriously looking for a new home for Snow, and he said "We can't let him go. We love him too much." That determination turned the tide as he found it within himself to be able to be around Snow with all his bouncy energy and not have it trigger his anxiety. We were finally able to start having Snow out of his kennel and in the house with us the majority of the time when we were home and awake. There are days where my son still struggles with his anxiety enough that Snow ends up taking break in his kennel while my son calms down, but it is the exception rather than the rule.

I'm much more relaxed with Snow these days, in large part because I let go of my time table for having Snow fully trained and ready to be a Service Dog. I figured out, after spending a fair bit of time reading on this forum, that my time table simply wasn't appropriate for a Standard Poodle. It might have been fine for lab, but there was just no way that it was going to work with our little pogo stick. I've also accepted that I simply may not be able to train him sufficiently to allow him to be a service dog. I am working with a very good trainer and have learned a lot and made a lot of progress on Snow's training, but even the professional trainers who train lots of Service Dogs have dogs that wash out of their programs. So we're working on various skills, and then as we make enough progress to where I need some more guidance I have the trainer come to our house for another session. 

Snow turned 2 just last month and we're starting to see more and more moments of calm. He's actually settling down and resting quietly for longer and longer stretches. I'm starting to see more of the dog that I had a glimpse of in the puppy curled up on my son's lap when they first met. I now firmly believe that in another year Snow will be a marvelous dog to have around and all the struggles we've had getting him to that point will be worth it. There were days where I cried because I was certain I'd made an absolutely disastrous decision to adopt him. There were days where I was certain that the problems were because I was making an absolute mess of training him. I still hope that he will be able to be a Service Dog for my son, but we'll continue to love him even if he never quite makes it there.


----------



## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

aren't they amazing. I after only being a standard poodle mom for 11 months have learned so much. Me who has had many many dogs in her lifetime was and still there are days am challenged. I think I went into this thinking wow a non shedding super smart dog, this will be my great companion. Well he is my great companion but I am older now and don't walk as well as I did which I think is the challenge. But I wouldn't give up on him for all the $ in the world. My neighbor also is my age her st poodle is almost 4, he is only now calming down though he has moments but they last seconds. I dog st for him last week and he and his "brother" were great. I had absolutely no problem handling them. I think some of us get our 1st and think wow poodles are so smart this is going to be a easy road. I now think they are so smart that you best be on your toes and the road is long and windy but there is a pot of gold at the end of the trail.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

SpinngBunnyFluff I have little doubt that you and your son will get there with Snow. Your insights about being calm to get calm are wonderful. Lily was a wildly crazy girl for most of her first two years. I had many moments of remorse regarding her, but when I made the determination to bring a new attitude to our relationship she turned to a fresh page too.


Mufar, this is it in a nutshell for me. "I think some of us get our 1st and think wow poodles are so smart this is going to be a easy road. I now think they are so smart that you best be on your toes and the road is long and windy but there is a pot of gold at the end of the trail."


----------



## gateapples (Jul 31, 2018)

My first spoo was such a doll. Still is. My new spoo — now age 8 months — was so very different. Training has been a real challenge. Housebreaking was a challenge. He was constantly jumping on me and biting my clothes. And he is the greatest chewer this side of the Mississippi: he wants to run off and tear apart or chew to bits anything he can get his mouth on which has forced me to constantly check and recheck (I have a careless hubby!) my puppy proofing of our living space. It made me realize how very different poodles can be. But in the four months that I have had Bailey, I have seen him calm down, little by little. He is listening to me and being more loving. I’m beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I find that the harness with the ring at the chest is a marvelous tool to walk and really does prevent pulling. I guess my main point is just that I, too, have personally experienced how chaotic life can be with a young poodle who is on the wild side. Yet, they are still the most adorable creatures. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Raven's Mom (Mar 18, 2014)

SpacePoodle,
I can relate to your disappointment. Raven is my first spoo and I was hoping for a companion for Competative obedience. She was a very challenging puppy and Lily CD_RE helped get me off the ledge a few times! She turns 5 December 1st and we have been in classes since she was 5mo. She was mouthy and obnoxious and very difficult to house break reliably... not at all what I expected. Like Lily said, I had to re-evaluate my expectations then and still do today. We have failed to qualify in Novice 4 times now even though she could teach the class, but she is so NOT people friendly that all the new people at shows freak her out and she tunes me out. I keep trying because I enjoy the classes and training, but I have to face the fact we may never overcome her anxiety in the venues. I am having to deal with my disappointment because in all other ways she has become a perfect companion at home. She is affectionate and loyal and doesn't touch things that do not belong to her. 

If you love him I feel sure you will bond eventually:angel2:


----------

