# How big of a red flag is having pups with waiting list spots left?



## SoBecky (7 mo ago)

I've been doing research on breeders in our area and what red/green flags to look for in a breeder and all that, and I've come across a recurring theme. A lot of breeders who seem otherwise reputable will have a few slots open for an already born litter. A previous breeder I went to was quite bad and also did this, but I've also come across otherwise very good seeming breeders who do this. I was looking at Mistel Standard Poodles this morning (MISTEL), who have heavily titled dams who all are health tested, and who focus on tempermant and health, but they have waiting list slots open for their current pups (.. I think? Mistel Standard Poodles) SO I was wondering how big of a red flag this actually is.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

It's not a huge red flag IMO. I know of some breeders who don't keep waitlists, or only start waitlists once they have a litter on the ground, and, if a breeder does take a waitlist, it's common for a litter to be bigger than expected or people to drop out. 

If the health testing, socialization, and parents are what you are wanting, it wouldn't deter me at all.

Annie's breeder doesn't/didn't take wait lists.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I think context is always important. A breeder I really like had two puppies left in her most recent litter. She will not be proceeding with her fall breeding plans unless she has enough advance interest.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Standard poodles often have large litters - so it's more likely that a puppy or two may not be spoke for yet. Plus it looks like Mistel is a new breeder. 

I like that she is training and has titled her dogs in several sports - entry level titles. It means that those dogs have good temperament to work under the trying conditions of a trial. She has done all the recommended health testing from what I can see on her website and raises the puppies with several popular methods to enrich their environment. As a groomer she gets them off to a good start with grooming which is a plus.

I would consider her puppies if she has what you are looking for. The fact that she has some unspoken for is not a red flag with this breeder.

It is a red flag for breeders who don't do all the recommended testing, breed dogs too young, have too many litters or any of the other signs that they are puppy mills or backyard breeders who are just trying to make a quick buck.


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## JayD (Feb 14, 2021)

Seems like demand has slowed down from the great puppy shortage if 2020, so maybe not a red flag.


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## JasMom (7 mo ago)

To me it wouldn't be a major red flag if everything else (health tests, morals, etc) checks out. As an example, we got our Jasper sooner than expected because someone ahead of us in the list did not want a male. Sometimes puppies that were spoken for become available again if the puppy buyer is more particular, say they want a female and there were mostly males in the litter or they want a certain color.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

If I was closer, this would be a breeder I'd look at. The dam is a UKC grand Champion, which can only be earned against competition (and there are some nice multi-colored SPoos out there), plus has titled in enough performance sports to have her Versatility Excellent certificate. The sire is also a UKC grand champion (best in show, even), and has some performance titles. Health testing on both sire and dam look good. 

As for why there are three available slots, all of the reasons mentioned above come to mind.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

I like how she articulated so clearly her goals for this breeding.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

A couple of open spots on a waiting list absolutely would not be a deal breaker for me, especially in a younger kennel such as this one. Based on their web site I'm not seeing anything that screams run away before you even make a phone call. There is no such thing as a perfect breeder...especially considering that there isn't complete agreement as to what a perfect breeder actually IS.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Not a red flag at all, imho. Both of my dogs' breeders had a few puppies available in the litter when I was looking.


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## Moni (May 8, 2018)

I liked the site. I always watch breeders I care for and their puppy plans in many different breeds (Dalmatians, Poodles, Vizsla) and the reasons for open slots are many. One if the litter was bigger than expected, two if people back out (which can be for totally legit reasons - sudden health issues etc) three if people simply change their minds or the breeder kicks someone of the list (there are many legit reasons there too - double booking is one of the worst for breeders) or four if the male/female ratio of the litter is off. In my case when finding Louie there were three pups all male and there is very little room for a male poodle, unless they are truly breathtakingly exceptional - because to show a male poodle is just as much work as a bitch but then he would still compete with very established males to breed (his own father included) so 99% of the time not worth the trouble.


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## TK9NY (Jan 6, 2017)

For me, it would depend on a lot of different factors. In general i wouldn't just red flag available on-the-ground pups. Things happen. People back out all the time or maybe they wanted a gender/color that litter didn't produce. Maybe the litter was larger than planned. Maybe all of the above. There could be many good reasons to not have all pups spoken for before birth.

It would be more of a red flag if it appeared to be a consistent thing. Having multiple pups available from multiple litters at the same time, or even over a short period of time, would suggest they're producing for numbers, or maybe profit. A good breeder wouldn't, IMO, even plan another litter unless they had current pups spoken for and interest in more (IE maybe a wait list already filling out).

Limerick's breeder had a list of over a dozen people waiting for a litter of silver pups. I wasn't high up enough on the list to automatically be guaranteed one when said litter was born (i also wanted male which narrowed my chances) so i could have waited for the next litter, or taken what WAS available (cream btw - Limerick - and i do NOT regret that choice.) Dublin's breeder, on the other hand, has only a short list and then generates more as pups are first confirmed and then born. Occasionally one or both will have a pup or two not spoken for when time comes for them to go home but it's rare and they're snatched up pretty quick. 

It makes more sense for a "new" breeder to have less interest, and thus have more pups available.... something that will likely change over time as their pups are proven and they gain more of a reputation. If this breeder ticks all the other boxes i wouldn't be so concerned about the availability or lack of serious wait lists.


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## Summer (May 2, 2016)

It's not a red flag at all.

I don't keep a wait list, because I don't breed that often and people might find a puppy somewhere else or change their minds about a puppy for a million reasons (job issues, illness, etc...). A wait list is very hard to keep current under those circumstances. When I've confirmed a litter, I announce it, and take 4 deposits. That's it, in case of a small litter or mostly one gender, etc...I don't want to take 3 deposits from people who have their heart set on females and not get them, etc...I don't like doing refunds, or holding people's money for a future litter. So once puppies are born, and I know how many puppies and their genders/colors, I'll likely have spots open, I'll fill most, but not all. I keep a male and female spot for my pick, and possibly spots open if a service dog trainer might be looking at the litter. Once I choose my keeper after temperament testing, I might have 2 spots available at 7 weeks. I don't know how others do it, but that works for me.


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