# Help me train better greeting behavior



## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Noelle has decided the appropriate way to greet new people is to bark hello. I can translate her barks, "Hello, hello, hi, I'm Noelle. I am so happy to meet you that I just exploded. Boom! You're super nice, did you know that? Meeting you has made my day! See how fast I can wiggle? Look how fast my tail is wagging. It's going so fast I think it's going to fly off. Whoooosh! There it goes. Hi! Oh, hi. HELLOOOOOOOO!" 

I instruct her to settle down and sit. Which she does, for about a 1/1000th of a second. Then we're back to excited wiggling and howling. Noelle is 10-months-old and I'm sure that's part of the problem.

I'd like to train Noelle that wild greeting behavior gets her nothing. Calm greetings get attention. How could I set up training missions where I can get that to work? 

Go in the pet store, bark. You lose. Leave. Go in the pet store, bark. You lose, leave. Go in the pet store, don't bark, walk toward the clerk, bark. You lose, leave. Repeat for two hours until she can sit and meet the clerk. 

Would this help? Any other ideas?


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## Sammy the spoo (Jul 7, 2016)

I'm absolutely curious about the advice you will get because this is one of the behaviours I'm working on. When you wrote the following, I knew exactly what you meant and the behaviour. Sammy is the same way but without the bark. His tail is going so, so fast and the millisecond of sit on command? Yes, we do the same . 



Click-N-Treat said:


> Noelle has decided the appropriate way to greet new people is to bark hello. I can translate her barks, "Hello, hello, hi, I'm Noelle. I am so happy to meet you that I just exploded. Boom! You're super nice, did you know that? Meeting you has made my day! See how fast I can wiggle? Look how fast my tail is wagging. It's going so fast I think it's going to fly off. Whoooosh! There it goes. Hi! Oh, hi. HELLOOOOOOOO!"
> 
> I instruct her to settle down and sit. Which she does, for about a 1/1000th of a second. Then we're back to excited wiggling and howling. Noelle is 10-months-old and I'm sure that's part of the problem.


Is this a behaviour on the street or more for when you have guests over? I feel like I can control the situation better when I can anticipate this (knowing that guests are arriving etc or seeing someone coming towards me). My solution is a sit-stay and he's getting better, but it's harder when I don't anticipate this meeting(being approached from behind or mailman etc). Also people often enable these behaviours being the "nice" person, right? . All the work and "nice" person undo it for you .

Lily cd re taught me the trick of "he's training for CGC test" and I seem to have better success with people allowing me to control his excitement.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Exercise her first! She has way too much pent up energy. When people come over, instruct them to ignore her until she settles down. Then practice sit-stays for meeting people.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

zooeysmom said:


> Exercise her first! She has way too much pent up energy. When people come over, instruct them to ignore her until she settles down. Then practice sit-stays for meeting people.



I agree that if you can burn off some energy physically first that will help, but I am very strongly supportive of the strategy of move towards something/someone to greet and turn around at the first bark or other burst of over the top excitement. Noelle is a brainiac poodle and it won't take her long to link if I am calm I get to move forward and say hello to each other as the right behavior with a reward she clearly wants. This will make her think before she speaks/jumps/pulls, etc. If you want to start with lower distractions have a friend or family member help by having them visible and start your approach. Turn around when she goes too high. Repeat as needed and you will find that the boundary distance between polite and crazy will get shorter and shorter. Then up the ante by adding the distraction of the attraction being a neighbor she doesn't know well, a neighbor she knows but with their dog and so forth until you can do it in a big store. 

In my ring prep training with Lily I have always had her default static behavior when not working be a down stay. I am teaching Javelin the same thing. I like a down stay for a static behavior better than a sit because the dog has to make more obvious intention moves before it breaks a down. You are more likely to have them remain in place if they are on a down. Javvy clearly gets it now that he should down if not otherwise engaged or if he is told to cut out jerky behavior. Deb had his dumbbell and he tried to grab it from her today. She sternly told him to knock it off and to never try that again. He put himself on a down in a hurry, his way of telling himself a time out was in order perhaps. Simultaneously Deb and I both said "good decision!" so he got a good mark that being settled works way better than being crazy for having people engage with him.

And yeah whenever a too friendly person comes upon me in a store while I am training and tries to tell me it is okay if the dog jumps up on them I say that it isn't okay because the dog is working/training.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

also if you can have a friend help a bit at first at home, have your friend turn her back at the first bark. dogs use turning their backs as a calming signal. when the barking stops, then your friend can approach again. if the barking starts again, turn one's back.

i used this technique for teaching my dog not to jump on me. no reward for jumping. he was also in doggy day care for awhile prior to travel and bounced off the fence so hard when i showed up that i worried he was going to hurt himself. two days of turning my back and he quit - watched me intensely but did not even approach the fence. just waited for the monitor to get him and put his leash on. 

not everything works with all dogs. so sometimes you have to try something else.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

I totally sympathize, because Archie is exactly the same except his thing is frantic whining and pulling/jumping, not barking.

With Archie, I had to start with just management around most friendly strangers, and only actually train with people who were in on the training. The reason for that is that for him, if you kept making him walk away from the stranger and back again, it would actually work him up MORE until he was so upset that I just had to get him out of the situation and reset. So his first real practice was in group training classes, where the trainer could remove herself from HIM first. He had an easier time with "too much excitement makes the fun person leave me" as a first lesson. I still use that when I have a willing participant who will actually turn and walk away from him, and it's very effective.

The other thing that helps is to take treats or a toy on walks, and use some luring to get him to approach appropriately. So I get him to sit, then reward him continuously while the person pets him. Over time I've been able to ease off the amount of rewards he gets, and he does a much better job of sitting or standing while people greet him.

If there's a group of people around, I ask for lots of "wait" behavior from him initially to get him to practice self-control. So sit/wait, or "look" and hold, stuff like that. 

I also try to make Archie walk "close" (his cue for a casual heel) whenever we pass people or other dogs. And he's learning "Say Hi" as a cue to greet people - my next step is conditioning him not to do it unless I tell him to say hi.

It used to take seriously powerful treats to get Archie's attention away from strangers, but he's slowly getting better. He's still hopeless around people who actively encourage him to jump up, though. He's small and charming, so he meets a lot of people who don't mind if he jumps. I haven't thought of saying that he's working; I usually just explain that if adults let him do it, he'll do the same thing to kids (which is true, and quite a problem). Most people get that.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Thanks for the suggestions. Some of this is pure puppy exuberance which I expect will calm down as she gets older. It is very challenging to drain the energy from a 10 month old puppy. Frolicking in the yard, plus a walk, plus flirt pole, plus fetch, and I'm ready for a nap. She's ready for more fun. 

I like the idea of other people leaving if she's wound up. Calm behavior gets good things. Crazy behavior gets you no where. I'll set her up on leash to meet people calmly. We'll also start CGC class tomorrow. This should be interesting...


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

We asked people to ignore Hans completely (no touching, no talking to him, no eye contact) and only interact with him when he was behaving appropriately. I have him stand in place for people to pet him, but that's just my preference. You need some patient friends, but we set out that the mentality that we didn't care if he was acting like some sort of demented kangaroo for 30 minutes (he's more of a jumper than a barker), nobody was going to give him any attention until he was behaving himself, even to tell him "no" and if he reverted to "demented kangaroo" once the interaction started, the human instantly went back to being a statue. He caught on pretty quick.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I used Catherine's method - OTT behaviour means we turn, walk away a few steps, and try again. It took a few goes for the message to sink in, and I didn't demand perfection, especially at first: enthusiasm is fine, barking and straining at the leash are not. And I have given up on sit to greet with my tinies - so many people actually encourage them to jump up to make it easier to reach them that I find it works better to watch how each person feels, and ask the dogs to behave politely based on that.


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## Myleen (Apr 30, 2016)

Click-N-Treat;- Any other ideas?[/QUOTE said:


> Love this thread! Love the advice... I am back to work now...
> when I come home my husband takes Toby outside so I can safely walk thru the house and change out of my good work clothes. He has jumped and gotten his teeth into a few of my nice tops leaving behind a hole
> 
> I can hear his "frantic whining" as he looks thru the glass patio door waiting.
> ...


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## aasteapots (Oct 6, 2013)

Click-N-Treat said:


> It is very challenging to drain the energy from a 10 month old puppy. Frolicking in the yard, plus a walk, plus flirt pole, plus fetch


These things do not really drain energy. She needs mental work to calm down. Take her on a mental walk. I always do at least 45 min but you can start at 30. Then see how her energy level is. Mental walks do not have to be brisk or physical in anyway. A slow mental walk works just as well as a brisk mental walk.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

At the first place I trained, the trainer had us do this meeting a visitor exercise - not sure if it would help you or not. 

Two people A+B) stood 10-15 feet away and both have treats. The person A with the dog points to the other person B and says "go visit". As the dog moves towards B, B uses the hand signal and/or says "down" so the dog, as it approaches should be going into the down position. When the dog does that you say "yes" and give them a reward. Then Person B points to A to send the dog back to A "go visit"- you go back and forth a few times for each training session. If the dog won't lie down and starts jumping up and behaving appropriately, you turn your back. If the dog is jumping up but otherwise okay, back away so the dog is unstable. I find it works well in the house, but not so well outside and since I did eliminate most of Babykin's jumping up on people I haven't practiced this much.


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## Myleen (Apr 30, 2016)

aasteapots said:


> These things do not really drain energy. She needs mental work to calm down. Take her on a mental walk. I always do at least 45 min but you can start at 30. Then see how her energy level is. Mental walks do not have to be brisk or physical in anyway. A slow mental walk works just as well as a brisk mental walk.


Hi aasteapots,
Could you please give me descriptions/details on what a mental walk involves?
What do I do on this kind of walk?
Thanks!!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Myleen said:


> Hi aasteapots,
> Could you please give me descriptions/details on what a mental walk involves?
> What do I do on this kind of walk?
> Thanks!!



Myleen look here! http://www.poodleforum.com/23-general-training-obedience/213489-mental-walk.html


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

You are right that mental exercise is exhausting. Noelle came home from CGC class and is asleep at my feet. Part of good greeting behavior is self control, which at times, Noelle lacks. Any self control games? 

We played the five cookie game. We played touch my hand. We played if you ignore the treat in my hand, you get it. I need more calming games for focus and attention. Noelle gets bored with too much repetition. If I had six or seven different games to play, and was able to mix them up, I think that would help her focus and calm down.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Try teaching her to spin in both directions. It is a physical activity that can be done in a small space and releases energy and stress. Lots of obedience people will use a spin during a trial as they move between exercises. You might also try "puppy push ups" sit down sit down sit down or sit bow sit bow sit bow or stand drop stand drop stand drop. You can vary those position changes in any combination you want and that will keep her thinking since if you change the pattern frequently she can't anticipate. Increase the duration of the attention between cookies in the five cookie game.

I haven't had coffee yet, so once I do if I think of anything else I'll add later.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Noelle knows twist and spin! Those are fun. We have it down to a hand signal. I will use those, plus puppy push-ups in class. Noelle is a drivey poodle. Reminds me of a gifted kid who wants to learn everything, and learns at super speed. Ok, I know that, next? I know that too, next? Which quickly can devolve into tuning me out. 

The teacher told me I have three problems. One, I have a highly intelligent poodle. Two, I have a puppy. And three Noelle is incredibly driven. Channel all that and Noelle will be amazing.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Lily was like that when she was a puppy and Javelin is too. He can still be a wild man, but he is showing signs of learning to execute his own impulse control. On Monday he tried to grab his dumbbell from Deb and his teeth made grazing contact with her leg. She told him a very firm no followed by "you can't ever do that again!" As she was about halfway through the can't ever part he put himself on a down (which we have recently taught him to be his default as a time out when he gets too excited). He also backed away from her as he did it. We both gave him a very happy "good dog" when he did it so he got a great reinforcement on what is acceptable. Once he had settled he was very polite working with Deb and she put some love on him to let him know she wasn't mad.

The great thing is that once you channel that drive into constructive behaviors you have a great working dog. It all points to a great future of Noelle learning her jobs that she will do for you adeptly and meaningfully. She will be your service dog before you know it.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

I've built a lot of self-control practice into Archie's everyday life. He has to listen and do different commands (default is sit, but we change it up) before putting on a leash, walking through doors, getting a toy thrown, getting treats or meals, etc. etc. We'll make him stop in the middle of games like tug and wait for a cue/release word before letting him play again. The more he likes something, the more likely that he has to work for it. 

As a general lifestyle habit, it helped a lot when he was a little younger and much crazier. Now that he's actually turning into a grown-up dog, he defaults to doing his different tricks when he really wants something. For me his go-to is usually to sit and make eye contact; with my husband, he'll sit down and then slowly lift a paw for shake. It's a much better way of asking for something than just jumping up and down and pawing at us, which was his old method. And since he's used to having to do it, it doesn't throw him for a loop if I ask for similar behaviors before allowing him to greet someone.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

For teaching self control practise wait and leave it. Sit and wait to go outside, eat ect.


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