# Tail Docking, Dewclaws and Neutering



## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

OK... I've kinda got myself into it in a Fb forum by mentioning that neutering is not allowed in the EU. Now that opinion was formed by reading general chatter in here and not really paying too much attention to it. So it could easily be that I was wrong. 

Maybe it was just a dramatic headline that announced they were considering it, maybe it was the UK, maybe it indeed was the EU. But I know that they've made changes to tail docking and maybe dewclaw removal 'regulations'. And now I'm a bit confused.

I figured I'd go straight to the source in here 'cos we've got lots of UK and EU Poodle owners who would know a lot more than me. Is neutering still a common practice in the UK?... are they simply talking about eliminating it?... or are they indeed serious...


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Frank I will be interested to see the replies from across the pond. I know they leave tails natural and can go along with that, but I think leaving the dewclaws is an invitation for injuries, and no neutering, really! Imagine the population explosion of unwanted dogs because so many people are so clueless about managing their dogs. Didn't somebody just say in TinyPoodles' thread about dog park fights that someone brought an intact male and an in season bitch to a dog beach? Sounds like a puppy accident waiting to happen to me!


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

From some things I've seen it seems (to me) that neutering is not as common overseas as it is in the USA, but I'm not sure that it's forbidden?


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## Newmum (Jan 2, 2014)

Neutering is indeed common here in the UK, I think all rescue dogs are neutered before being rehomed. I've never heard of it being considered for elimination in the UK. Tail docking is illegal here unless for health reasons and I believe some working dogs are allowed to have tails docked. Dewclaw removal I think is also illegal here unless for a medical reason, though I'd have to check that one, its certainly not common.


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## Newmum (Jan 2, 2014)

Apologies dewclaw removal is allowed in UK, I really don't think its very common though.

Removal of dew claws ? The Kennel Club

Tail docking ? The Kennel Club


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## Rachel76 (Feb 3, 2014)

Tail docking is illegal in germany but not all over in the eu. Dont quote me, and Im pretty sure that poland and the czech republic allow tail docking and ear cropping. Neutering is allowed and on some ways encouraged. Germany has many intact dogs without an overpopulation problem because most owners take care. I have no clue about dewclaws. Hemi has hers and they are not the kind that hang by a thread of flesh so for the foreseeable future she will be keeping them. 

There is an exception to tail docking and that is for hunting dogs, but then most of these dogs are really used for hunting including wild boar.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Ear cropping has been illegal in the UK for over a hundred years; tail docking has been illegal for around a decade; dew claw removal is legal, and still commonplace; neutering is both legal and encouraged, although is perhaps not as near universal as in the USA. On the continent, regulations vary from one country to another, and cultural habits also vary - it would be wiser to always say "parts of Europe" when making assertions like that, as that way you are very likely to always be right!


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

I live in the US, but my sister,aunts, uncles, many relatives live in Germany. As Rachel said, many intact dogs, but they don't have the problems with homeless dogs like the US. It's actually illegal to put a healthy dog to sleep in a shelter there. Different culture, different sense of responsibility for pets. 

But as someone else already mentioned, it varies from country to country. Germany takes dogs from Turkey, Spain, and other countries for adoption. I don't know much about countries outside Germany.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

fjm said:


> - it would be wiser to always say "parts of Europe" when making assertions like that, as that way you are very likely to always be right!


Ya... I've learned a lot in the last few years from the ladies in here. Still working on some of the finer points tho... 

Thanx, all... I summed up your information, added a guypology, and passed it on to the Group.


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## villavilla (Jul 30, 2013)

In Finland ear cropping, tail docking and dewclaw removal are illegal. Ear cropping has been it for very long time. My first poodle is born 2001 and has a long, natural tail and dewclaws as well (he has never had any problems with them). Tail docking is since then totally forbidden (some regulations came already earlier), dewclaw removal some ears later. Neutering is legal but it is not that often used and there are no campaigns or anything for it. Typical pet- or companion dogs are unneutered but we do not have a problem with homeless dogs.


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

As a dog owner, I find it fascinating that countries in the EU who do not have problems with dog overpopulation also do not regularly neuter/ spay, and have restrictions on tail and ear docking. As a nurse, I also think it is interesting that these same countries have better health care, and healthier people than we do here. I definitely think there is a parallel - and a regard for life that we seem to miss the mark on.

I love this country, and don't want to live anywhere else- but we tend to be selfish- we want what we want, all under the guise of "our rights".


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

villavilla said:


> In Finland ear cropping, tail docking and dewclaw removal are illegal. Ear cropping has been it for very long time. My first poodle is born 2001 and has a long, natural tail and dewclaws as well (he has never had any problems with them). Tail docking is since then totally forbidden (some regulations came already earlier), dewclaw removal some ears later. Neutering is legal but it is not that often used and there are no campaigns or anything for it. Typical pet- or companion dogs are unneutered but we do not have a problem with homeless dogs.


A few more details: tail docking, ear cropping, and dewclaw removal cannot be performed in Finland unless for a medical reason. Preventive measures are not a valid reason. Dogs with altered ears or tails may be imported but cannot participate in any shows, tests, or competitions, officially sanctioned or not (except for European Winner and World Winner conformation shows).


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Carolinek said:


> As a dog owner, I find it fascinating that countries in the EU who do not have problems with dog overpopulation also do not regularly neuter/ spay, and have restrictions on tail and ear docking. As a nurse, I also think it is interesting that these same countries have better health care, and healthier people than we do here. I definitely think there is a parallel - and a regard for life that we seem to miss the mark on.
> 
> I love this country, and don't want to live anywhere else- but we tend to be selfish- we want what we want, all under the guise of "our rights".


Carolinek you are spot on there. We do tend to be a nation of narcissists in many things and not to our advantage many times. But I too wouldn't want to live anywhere else, except maybe Canada.


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## Hermelien1989 (May 30, 2014)

Second try to post this

I live in the Netherlands (but really close to germany and belgium). 
Neutering is allowed here and every shelteranimal is neutered before the adoption (or they give you a free neutering when the animal is old enough).
Tail docking and ear docking are forbidden here

I'm not sure about the declauwing. I think it is allowed here.

A while ago I red on a forum that neutering in Germany is forbidden . Underneath there is a link showing the animal law(in german) But I think they allow it anyway, because you always can think of a medical reason todo it. And it says that when you have a hunting dog and when to dog can't do its work propperly, then it's allowed.


TierSchG - Einzelnorm


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

Hermelien- thanks for the link. I didn't think neutering was actually illegal in Germany, but the law does seem to state that from what I could see. But like you said, there are many ways to get around it- especially where they talk about " preventing uncontrolled reproduction." I'm pretty sure the dogs my family have had over there have been intact. My grandfather bred GSDs- but that was a long time ago. I was just a kid.


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## PNWMama (Mar 18, 2014)

Jasper's breeder is from Germany (though she lives in the US now), and she stated from the beginning that she would not dock tails or dew claws. I don't remember if it's in our contract that we wouldn't do so, either. (I worked at a vet many moons ago, and learned about (and was horrified by) docking for aesthetic purposes at that time - so I knew we wouldn't be doing any docking unless medically necessary anyway.)


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## Luce (Mar 4, 2013)

Luce was 8 weeks when I got her - everything intact. Glenn didn't like her tail - it was too long and didn't look right!! He wanted to get it docked, I argued that it's fine and cute. I called the vet anyway to ask and they said "absolutely NOT!! She is too old now and it would be called an unnecessary amputation". I was very happy about that.

I agree with Carolinek about the mindset of a lot of Americans. And I too wouldn't live anywhere else - not even Canada, it's too cold!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Too bad in a way. At the park, I've always used a docked tail as a clue whether a dog is purebred or from a mixed litter. Owners of mixed litters don't dock tails... only breeders of some purebreds.

Somebody told me once their Dobe was registered. It had the body shape and colour, but it had floppy ears and a long tail. I found that odd. :suspicious:


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

LOL natural Dobermans do look like odd Black and Tan hounds don't they...


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Awwwww.... a Dobie with natural ears is just the cutest thing. Natural ears take away the scarey look.  

No more Look of Eagles, more like a Look of Beagles.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I saw my first 'natural' Boxer yesterday!! Purebred but both ears and tail left intact.....cute pup. I spoke with the owner for a few minutes and he said the litter was left intact because the owner didn't believe in docking. He also was concerned about his Boxer's tail because someone else told him the the reason their tails are done is because the tails are 'weak' and are easily injured.............the tail IS very long and slender! Anybody know is this is fact or fiction? I'm curious!!!


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Yes there are injuries that occur mostly in long tailed short haired dogs. 

One is limber tail which is an over use syndrome. 

Another is happy tail which in extreme cases can lead to partial amputation of the tail. Grin the problem is not that the tail is weak so much as the butt is too strong and the dog wags his tail too much


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Exactly what spindledreams said. We have amputated tails on many dogs that were supposed to have their tail docked but didn't like boxers, and some that aren't usually docked like Pit Bulls. I think the most we do is pits, but we have had labs with the same issue too. All due to happy tail. They just have over powerful bum muscles ?. Those pits can whip a nice size welt on your legs if you are not careful ?.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Oh, ya?  I didn't that... 

I always wondered why most of the 'rat-tailed' dogs I've seen seem to have kinks in their tails.


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

I just want to say I can definitely support leaving ears and tails and possibly dewclaws. No spaying or neutering... That would be a tough one that would probably stop me from keeping dogs and especially cats! All my pets are speutered. Having Jack done made him much calmer and less nervous honestly! He is much nicer to live with.


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## Luce (Mar 4, 2013)

"Awwwww.... a Dobie with natural ears is just the cutest thing. Natural ears take away the scarey look." 

I heard or read somewhere the reason ears are cropped is the scary look!

I love the look of a floppy eared dot running!! Luce is so cute when she runs to me with those ears flopping in the wind


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## mantlady (Jun 22, 2014)

The only other dog I've had (or purchased) that was purebred was an Aussie, whose breeder cut her tail way too short. Every since then we've been opposed to docking/cropping. The dew claws are sometimes an issue- Zach is fine, and his dews are very small and I just clip the nails short. My daughter's lab/rott mix has had endless trouble with hers- set high, large, catch on stuff, interfere with dog's life. Of the three she had she's got one left. (Zach doesn't have any on his hind legs).
I'm hoping to leave him intact until he is grown- he was so small at first, I want him to have all the growth hormones he can. He is 8 months and a bit, no signs of testicular poisoning so far.
I LOVE the wavy tail he carries high and curled over his back as we go out to feed in the evening, trotting down the drive to the hay barn. Today, he pointed at some little birds, and jumped high and wide over a ditch. :in-love:


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

I definitely believe in leaving them intact till mature. I made it to 19 months with Jack before I couldn't stand it anymore. Constantly sniffing my bichon's rear (she's been spayed for years!) chomping his mouth and drooling, pacing and whining around her. He's now more than a month out and a nice quiet pet- like he was as a puppy. Phew!


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Tail docking is now illegal in Australia. unless for health reasons.
In the case of poodles I'd rather be hit with a feather duster than a whip.
Eric.


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