# Notes from trainers for all dog owners



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

A lot of what comes up in terms of behavioral concerns when I get requests for quotes to do private training with dogs comes up quite often as questions that PF members ask as well. I thought it might be nice for trainers who are members to have a place to drop comments that might help people who are having behavior issues that leave them considering hiring a trainer.

To start things off I had a phone consult today with a nice woman who has a mixed breed dog that jumps on and pulls at the clothing of her elderly mother. The dog also jumps all over her 27 year old son. The dog apparently has good leash and even ok dog park behaviors (poor recall was mentioned). In this case success or failure will depend on modifying the dog's behavior, but even more importantly on all of the people in the household being consistent in what they expect the dog to do. So the bottom line of my first comment is make sure everyone in your family is on the same page before you even get your puppy into the house for things like can the dog be fed people food, can the dog go on the furniture, etc. I suspect that when I meet them later this week I will find that if this dog had clear and consistent signals from everyone in the house they wouldn't need me. I think I will be training mom and grandson as much as training the dog!


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## Mahlon (Jun 8, 2014)

Great idea for a thread Catherine, I'm sure there's so many good tidbits and general things that come up over and over, and its useful having one place in particular to share them.



lily cd re said:


> ...So the bottom line of my first comment is make sure everyone in your family is on the same page before you even get your puppy into the house for things like can the dog be fed people food, can the dog go on the furniture...I think I will be training mom and grandson as much as training the dog!


I always wonder how trainers take on that aspect of their job, I know most dog owners would be more than just a little offended thinking they need training. Usually though from an objective standpoint, its very obvious the training needs to be directed at the humans, and very little towards the dog other than consistency.

As for your first comment, I totally agree and think that is probably one of the hardest thing with raising a puppy in a busy home. That was one of the huge advantages I feel I had with Quinn, her first two months with mainly just me giving her direction.

-Dan & Quinn


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

I totally agree with you Catherine, a bunch of different people with different methods are confusing for a dog. Wish you were close enough so I could hire you! p.s. Maddy is doing awesome lately. 4 years of constant obedience lessons is the key--of course, she loves them, she's like Zha Zha Gabor there; "Hello dahlings! I'm ready for my close-up!"! She's the love of my life, crazy girl.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I used to dream of my own rainbow pack of Poodles. Now I dream that the best trainers on PF - Catherine, Marguerite, Eric, MollyMM et al, would come to Houston and work with Buck. I read your post to "Weak Link" last night about the new clients with the jumping dog and he claims he's got it now...


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I'm glad you all like the idea of this. Now I hope all you other trainers will weigh in with you best tips!


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Easier said than done. Living in a house with 8 people consistency and rules aren't always followed by everyone at all times. My biggest struggle


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## Feelingdoc (Feb 18, 2014)

I wonder if many dog owners just don't "get" that a trainer can't work magic if they don't follow through. I have fairly well behaved dogs but working with a trainer to tweet some things is helpful, fun, and rewarding. Paying the extra to have an inhome training session is for poodles much more cost effective than to walk a leashed dog in a circle...while 3 dogs pull and stop the flow...and your sitting there wondering if your dogs is learning anything they don't already do.


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## PoodleRick (Mar 18, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> A lot of what comes up in terms of behavioral concerns when I get requests for quotes to do private training with dogs comes up quite often as questions that PF members ask as well. I thought it might be nice for trainers who are members to have a place to drop comments that might help people who are having behavior issues that leave them considering hiring a trainer.
> 
> To start things off I had a phone consult today with a nice woman who has a mixed breed dog that jumps on and pulls at the clothing of her elderly mother. The dog also jumps all over her 27 year old son. The dog apparently has good leash and even ok dog park behaviors (poor recall was mentioned). In this case success or failure will depend on modifying the dog's behavior, but even more importantly on all of the people in the household being consistent in what they expect the dog to do. So the bottom line of my first comment is make sure everyone in your family is on the same page before you even get your puppy into the house for things like can the dog be fed people food, can the dog go on the furniture, etc. I suspect that when I meet them later this week I will find that if this dog had clear and consistent signals from everyone in the house they wouldn't need me. *I think I will be training mom and grandson as much as training the dog!*


A trainer I met years ago told me that dog traiing was 80% people training 20% dog training.

This is a great idea for a thread.

Rick


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## Specman (Jun 14, 2012)

PoodleRick said:


> A trainer I met years ago told me that dog traiing was 80% people training 20% dog training.


I would totally agree. I am blown away how much more focused trainers are and the number of reps they do with a dog to reinforce a behavior. Trainers are very good at clear communication with the dog. The average person doesn't realize how many mixed messages they send to their dogs.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

mom2zoe you are a great example of the need to "train" the people more than the dog. 

Having the people do their homework in between sessions is really important. I cannot fix a dog's behavior problems in 45-60 minutes a week. The person who the dog lives with has to reinforce and learn to give the consistent orders that the trainer gives or else they are wasting their money and nothing will change. This same concern underlies why I don't have any interest in running a board and train operation. The owner(s) have to be an active part of the work so that they can maintain the behavior they want. Separately I really don't want dogs with behavioral problems in my house adding bad energy that my dogs have to stress out about, nor do I want a dog that would be trying to kill my chickens around.


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## Mahlon (Jun 8, 2014)

Specman said:


> I would totally agree. I am blown away how much more focused trainers are and the number of reps they do with a dog to reinforce a behavior. Trainers are very good at clear communication with the dog. The average person doesn't realize how many mixed messages they send to their dogs.


I think for me the biggest struggle has been in remembering that dogs are master non-verbal communicators, way better than any human ever will be, and that we as people are so very reliant on language to communicate (some more so than others). I've succeeded with Quinn so far in doing a great job in this department, but I constantly make sure I'm reviewing what I'm doing, and how she reacts and working on relying more on what I'd call cues more than commands. I think expectation (within reason) and consistency are the keys, or at least have been for me in my experience with Quinn and other dogs in the past I've worked with, and its something worth aiming for as it really makes a wonderful working relationship. 

I hope the simplification of the terminology doesn't make this sound cold, as I don't see it this way, Quinn and I have a very warm and loving relationship. But I do see the way we are learning together as me setting small goals, having reasonable expectations, understanding that they aren't always going to be met, and sometimes will be wildly exceeded, and that me being consistent and communicating her preferred way (non-verbal: aka tone, body language, etc.) will make this the easiest and most enjoyable for both her and me.

Dan & Quinn


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Dan I don't think your terminology is cold sounding at all, rather it is a very compassionate recognition of how to be very clear in guiding Quinn to the behavioral responses you expect. 

Body language really is critical. I often see people saying one thing and telling their dogs something different with their bodies. For example calling a dog on a recall while leaning over at the waist towards them. When you lean towards the dog they will move back to try to maintain eye contact and sometimes because they are nervous about what will happen when they get very close to the handler. If you watch most handlers give a recall signal in a utility signal exercise they will even lean their torso back a bit to get the dog to give a close sit front. Think also about how you first taught your puppy to sit. You used the upward motion of your hand to get their gaze up and they sat as a result. Saying sit before they understood the visual cue wouldn't have made a sit happen.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

My daughter and I used to do a lot of training together, and we agreed that during training, dogs are always learning, but they may not be learning what you are trying to teach them. Case in point, her first dog (Airedale) was about four months old and we thought she really had her recall down pat. My daughter called her and that pup would stop what ever she was doing and bound across the field and sit right in front of her. It was a gorgeous sight. Then, a few days later we switched positions and I was handing the pup. This was not unusual, as I did a lot of work with the pup when my daughter was in school. Anyhow, there we were working each other's dogs about fifty feet apart. I called the Airedale and she went straight to my daughter and sat right in front of her! We then realized that "come" to that Airedale meant go to my daughter, not what we intended. It didn't take long to fix our mistake... but my daughter and I learned our lesson. This is the same Airedale that almost killed a chicken because we misunderstood what she had learned. We had thought we had taught her that all chickens are to be left alone, but she had learned only that the eight existing chickens are to be ignored. Sometimes I think that if I live to be a hundred, I might actually be pretty astute at understanding dogs.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

lily cd re said:


> mom2zoe you are a great example of the need to "train" the people more than the dog.
> 
> :banghead:
> Totally!!! I have to admit sometimes I like Zoe more than the rest of them.LOL
> She loves me to pieces, never gives me lip, and actually listens.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

mom2Zoe said:


> lily cd re said:
> 
> 
> > mom2zoe you are a great example of the need to "train" the people more than the dog.
> ...


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## Rachel76 (Feb 3, 2014)

Catherine or any of the other trainers, would you please give us some tips in how to find and what to look for in a good trainer? As far as I understand it, anyone can call themselves a dog trainer, no education needed ( it's the same here in Germany). When I was a first time dog owner that would have been helpful to know. 

With Hemi it's been easier. I quit going to one trainer, not because I thought she was bad or wrong, because it wasn't what Hemi and I needed at the time. I am changing dog schools again for the same reason. I mention this just as an example of what works for one owner or dog doesn't work for a different owner or dog.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

In the US I recommend that people look for a trainer with a certification from a reputable organization such as the CPDT-KA certification (certified professional dot trainer-knowledge assessed) from the CCPDT. Memberships in recognized trainer organizations such as APDT are a plus too. For myself right now I am a member of APDT and am working towards CPDT-KA (you need a lot of hours before you can take their test). I would also ask for references with phone numbers or email addresses. If the person has a listing on a service provider site like Angie's List, care.com or other (I use one called Thumbtack) check the reviews on the person and make sure they are reasonably recent (like 6-12 months, not 2 or 3 years old).

I also happen to think that you should get a look at how things will work for free. This is useful for both parties to the transaction, especially for private training. You need to know you like what the person is suggesting for working with your dog and the trainer has to know whether they want to take on whatever your dog's issues are if you are being called to fix problems as opposed to training a puppy. I have declined to even quote for jobs where I thought I didn't like the sound of things from the request (I recently declined to bid for work with a dog and person aggressive pittie. As I recall actually no one responded to that request.). If you are looking for instruction at a club or school you should be welcomed to come watch a class or two without your dog. If you are looking to hire a private in home trainer I think that the person should be willing to give some sort of a free consultation, ideally in the home. I went this afternoon to meet new prospective clients (got hired BTW) and told them no charge for that visit. I also said that payment could wait until I returned.

When I return (or often before) I bring/send a report on my findings from my initial visit with suggestions of things to do to get ready for the first training session. The dog I met today is totally out of control in the house when anyone enters or leaves. Before I left, I told the owner to think about getting rescue remedy since it took over 30 minutes for the dog to start to listen to me. I also told her she had to have the dog on its harness and leash before I came in the house again because she jumped wildly on me and grabbed my clothes (could have torn things) and put teeth on my flesh, a major major no no and not something I am willing to put up with. At least with the dog on leash I have half a chance of getting some rescue remedy into her and settling her that way to be able to get decent attention without wasting 2/3 of my planned working time and wasting the woman's money.


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