# PUPPY HAS UNDERBITE.. Should i buy?



## Cheeka (Mar 22, 2020)

We are due to pickup our toy poodle on Monday. We have been corresponding with the owner since before birth. She has shared photos of the parents & the pups. They live a good 3+ hours from us so we have not seen puppy in person.
Puppy had her shots and her physical yesterday at 8 weeks. Owner notified me that vet said all was fine health wise but did add that puppy has a slight underbite which neither parent has.
So.. Im googling like crazy and reading all sorts of stuff.
This is my dream "to be silver grey' puppy that Ive searched almost 2 yrs for. The price is $2800.00Cdn which is steep but I know poodles are rare here & these colors are nonexistent anywhere around here( middle of Canada). We are not receiving registration papers but do have to sign a non-breeding contract.
I may be oversharing but more details the better...
So ...what to do? 

Awaiting any advice or comments,
Chris
in Canada


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## Teddy’s mom (May 20, 2020)

Mmmm that’s tricky! Have u seen pics of the puppy and underbite? What did their vet say about it. From what I’ve read over the last year of me trying to prepare for you standard. Hard to say how it will develop cause that takes time. Maybe someone on here who has a toy poodle would know more. Hate to pay that much and the dog not be what u want. Keep us posted!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I appreciate the breeder's honesty. Has she sent you photos? 

My worry would be potential trauma due to misaligned teeth—painful and expensive. But that's just based on a friend's experience with her husky. Her husky's bite was just a little off as a pup. It was actually quite endearing. But her teeth ended up aligning with her gums, sinking in painfully when she closed her mouth, which required treatment from a specialist.

Will your puppy be coming with a health guarantee? Would your breeder be willing to cover any dental bills in puppy's first year? At least until her adult teeth have come in and you can better assess?

I'm not sure if this would be applicable in your puppy's case, but my friend had success doing gentle pulling exercises every day with a tennis ball, to help the adult teeth set right. I'm guessing this sort of exercise would be done under professional guidance.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

Is there a specific period of time that you can return the puppy for health issues? I always have a vet appointment for the first day we have a dog so that we don't get too attached if there are obvious problems.

You're not getting registration papers, but can you register the dog yourself? Anything else sounds like a red flag for dog that costly.


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## Cheeka (Mar 22, 2020)

Teddy’s mom said:


> Mmmm that’s tricky! Have u seen pics of the puppy and underbite? What did their vet say about it. From what I’ve read over the last year of me trying to prepare for you standard. Hard to say how it will develop cause that takes time. Maybe someone on here who has a toy poodle would know more. Hate to pay that much and the dog not be what u want. Keep us posted!


thanks for answering. Hopefully someone will reply.


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## Cheeka (Mar 22, 2020)

Dianaleez said:


> Is there a specific period of time that you can return the puppy for health issues? I always have a vet appointment for the first day we have a dog so that we don't get too attached if there are obvious problems.
> 
> You're not getting registration papers, but can you register the dog yourself? Anything else sounds like a red flag for dog that costly.


 The mother has papers but the father doesnt. I have seen photos of both. My previous poodle was purebred but w/o papers so I wasnt too concerned.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

I agree with Robin's post - she said it better than I did - is there a health guarantee? 

Checking dental alignment is one of the first things our vet does with a new pup. I'd want my own vet's opinion.

Good luck.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

With no AKC registration I would give this a hard pass. I understand that is about $2100 US dollars and at that price you should for sure be getting a healthy AKC registered puppy from health tested parents. The going rate for puppies from champion parents is only $2500-3000 so it is not that different. Prices may be slightly different in Canada but my feeling is that this is not a good deal. There is the potential for very expensive dental surgery to be needed.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

(Cheeka, I'm sending you big hugs from afar. I'm guessing you're feeling a lot of heaviness at the moment, which can't feel great when you were so excited for the big day. We've not seen your puppy, nor do we know anything about the breeder except what you've told us. So keep in mind that all advice is well-intentioned, but fairly blind. The more you can share here, the more helpful we can be.)


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

2800$ and no registration papers ? Even with them, it’s very expensive for a pet puppy with an underbite. At that price, you should be getting a show prospect.

I understand dogs are rare at the moment, but I doubt ethical breeders have increased their price. I would not pay that price, personnally.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

PeggyTheParti said:


> (Cheeka, I'm sending you big hugs from afar. I'm guessing you're feeling a lot of heaviness at the moment, which can't feel great when you were so excited for the big day. We've not seen your puppy, nor do we know anything about the breeder except what you've told us. So keep in mind that all advice is well-intentioned, but fairly blind. The more you can share here, the more helpful we can be.)


Agreed. We're only going off the few facts we have and giving personal feelings. Everybody has different priorities and nobody can tell you what's the right decision for you. We can only say what we would do under the same circumstances. But we are all in different places and have different experiences and abilities. The right decision is the one that feels right by you.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

Whether or not you choose this dog, please come back to the group and participate. We all love our imperfect dogs (well, mine is imperfect!). No 'I told you so's' either way.


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## Cheeka (Mar 22, 2020)

Cheeka said:


> We are due to pickup our toy poodle on Monday. We have been corresponding with the owner since before birth. She has shared photos of the parents & the pups. They live a good 3+ hours from us so we have not seen puppy in person.
> Puppy had her shots and her physical yesterday at 8 weeks. Owner notified me that vet said all was fine health wise but did add that puppy has a slight underbite which neither parent has.
> So.. Im googling like crazy and reading all sorts of stuff.
> This is my dream "to be silver grey' puppy that Ive searched almost 2 yrs for. The price is $2800.00Cdn which is steep but I know poodles are rare here & these colors are nonexistent anywhere around here( middle of Canada). We are not receiving registration papers but do have to sign a non-breeding contract.
> ...


I appreciate everyone’s honesty! I know it’s costly but I also know that they are impossible to find anywhere in my middle of Canada. Can’t even look to USA now.
This isn’t a big city deal. She lives in a rural Mennonite village area. I’m in the city.
I had a purebred poodle for 15yrs, no papers..no big deal. 
I should have brought up health guarantee myself but naively didn’t even think of it.
I have contacted the lady to question her Health Guarantee. Have told her we have vet appt. with puppy next week, so our vet will tell us what he thinks. 
However, she will have my money by then.
How she responds will largely determine what I do.

Thanks much 
Chris


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## Teddy’s mom (May 20, 2020)

Let us know and definitely if u choose to go forward we love some puppy pics 🥰


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

I would be careful. Make sure you see the puppies and the parents (goes for any dog, honestly). In my area (Ontario) there are a fair number of mennonite puppy mills. Personally, for that money I would hold out for a CKC breeder. 

The questions I would ask would be :

what age are the father/mother? How many litters? What age did they have their first litter?
have they been health tested ? DNA or also elbows, eyes, etc?
how are they socialized?
- 

For that money, I would personally be inclined to pass on a dog with an underbite, if severe. Do you have a picture of her face? Perhaps someone more knowledgable than me could comment.


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## Cheeka (Mar 22, 2020)

Cheeka said:


> I appreciate everyone’s honesty! I know it’s costly but I also know that they are impossible to find anywhere in my middle of Canada. Can’t even look to USA now.
> This isn’t a big city deal. She lives in a rural Mennonite village area. I’m in the city.
> I had a purebred poodle for 15yrs, no papers..no big deal.
> I should have brought up health guarantee myself but naively didn’t even think of it.
> ...





Cheeka said:


> We are due to pickup our toy poodle on Monday. We have been corresponding with the owner since before birth. She has shared photos of the parents & the pups. They live a good 3+ hours from us so we have not seen puppy in person.
> Puppy had her shots and her physical yesterday at 8 weeks. Owner notified me that vet said all was fine health wise but did add that puppy has a slight underbite which neither parent has.
> So.. Im googling like crazy and reading all sorts of stuff.
> This is my dream "to be silver grey' puppy that Ive searched almost 2 yrs for. The price is $2800.00Cdn which is steep but I know poodles are rare here & these colors are nonexistent anywhere around here( middle of Canada). We are not receiving registration papers but do have to sign a non-breeding contract.
> ...


I’ m not sure how to post w/o repeating my previous posts. 🥺
Well, we got our lil Kya who has the underbite. The breeder’s vet noted on health certificate ‘severe underbite’. We have an agreement w breeder that if our vet has concerns, we can return her.
She’s a lil one..2lbs. Has lovely coloring. Has a calm personality. Likes to be at our feet or near.
Slept through first nite but was up 3 times last night. went pee and back to sleep. She’s not much of an eater but guess that’s for me to learn about here as well.
We see the vet on Friday, and that will determine what we do. I appreciate your hesitations. I’m holding my heart in till we know. 
Oh, we did see the mama and 2 other siblings. Not yappy and very friendly. Mama has had a few other litters. I know .. nothing about teeth. We are pretty hopeless.
Just thought I would update all of you.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Wishing you luck with the vet visit! I am a bit peeved that the breeder said it was a slight underbite if the vet said it was severe. Hopefully your vet will have good news.

As far as the eating goes, toys can be picky eaters but do take care to watch for hypoglycemia if this is the case.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

Good luck. And please let us know how things go.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Congratulations on bringing home your puppy Kya! Do you have a photo for us to gush over?

Please ask as many questions as you need to in the coming days. That's a very small girl with similar needs to an infant. You'll want to make sure her dietary needs are being met, first and foremost. I've also read from other members here that they don't leave toy puppies alone.

Maybe starting a new thread on the unique needs of toy puppies would be helpful to you. We're here for you and Kya.


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## Teddy’s mom (May 20, 2020)

Looking forward to seeing Kya 🥰


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## PandasMom (Mar 28, 2020)

Cheeka said:


> We are due to pickup our toy poodle on Monday. We have been corresponding with the owner since before birth. She has shared photos of the parents & the pups. They live a good 3+ hours from us so we have not seen puppy in person.
> Puppy had her shots and her physical yesterday at 8 weeks. Owner notified me that vet said all was fine health wise but did add that puppy has a slight underbite which neither parent has.
> So.. Im googling like crazy and reading all sorts of stuff.
> This is my dream "to be silver grey' puppy that Ive searched almost 2 yrs for. The price is $2800.00Cdn which is steep but I know poodles are rare here & these colors are nonexistent anywhere around here( middle of Canada). We are not receiving registration papers but do have to sign a non-breeding contract.
> ...


No. can result in huge problems and choking is a big deal


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Wow, I go by health history, intelligence, and temperament back three generations, plus conformation and current health reports from a vet. Color and sex is absolute last concern. You are paying top dollar for that dog starting out with problems. 

I would say no. For that kind of money you should be getting a star. Would you pay more than the manufacturers price for a new car that already had expensive to fix problems (maybe unfix-able) just because it was the color you wanted? 
**** And a wonderful living being that you might have and be able to love for maybe even 18 years is even more important.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

She has purchased the puppy and now we're doing what we can to support them both.


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## janebeebee (Sep 13, 2017)

Cheeka said:


> We are due to pickup our toy poodle on Monday. We have been corresponding with the owner since before birth. She has shared photos of the parents & the pups. They live a good 3+ hours from us so we have not seen puppy in person.
> Puppy had her shots and her physical yesterday at 8 weeks. Owner notified me that vet said all was fine health wise but did add that puppy has a slight underbite which neither parent has.
> So.. Im googling like crazy and reading all sorts of stuff.
> This is my dream "to be silver grey' puppy that Ive searched almost 2 yrs for. The price is $2800.00Cdn which is steep but I know poodles are rare here & these colors are nonexistent anywhere around here( middle of Canada). We are not receiving registration papers but do have to sign a non-breeding contract.
> ...


I had a bearded collie for 14 years with an underbite that became more pronounced as she grew from puppy to adult She looked an awful lot like a shark to me but with all her hair no one else noticed. At first our vet said she could be fitted with braces, later he said she'd need a jaw reconstruction So, we let her be and eventually her bottom canines created 2 holes on either side of the roof of her mouth where her canines lodged when her mouth was closed. It never caused any health problems or pain to her (believe me, she would have let us know) or interfered with her life at all. 
I currently have a blue standard--or at least that's what his reputable breeder told me when I bought him as a pup 2 years ago. The only "blue"color on him is a silver rim around each ear. So if you can already see your potential pup's color (it gets lighter, don't forget) at least you've got that going.
The price does seem steep however considering you may not be as lucky as we were with health issues but our beardie was an EXTREME case and it never caused problems and had the benefit that she didn't lick us all the time.
So, good luck!


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## rock55 (Aug 31, 2019)

Cheeka said:


> We are due to pickup our toy poodle on Monday. We have been corresponding with the owner since before birth. She has shared photos of the parents & the pups. They live a good 3+ hours from us so we have not seen puppy in person.
> Puppy had her shots and her physical yesterday at 8 weeks. Owner notified me that vet said all was fine health wise but did add that puppy has a slight underbite which neither parent has.
> So.. Im googling like crazy and reading all sorts of stuff.
> This is my dream "to be silver grey' puppy that Ive searched almost 2 yrs for. The price is $2800.00Cdn which is steep but I know poodles are rare here & these colors are nonexistent anywhere around here( middle of Canada). We are not receiving registration papers but do have to sign a non-breeding contract.
> ...


Whoa! No way. For that kind of money, there should be no flaws such as that. Either the pup is heavily discounted or health guarantee on teeth or no deal. Poodle breeders club of America has poodles cheaper and better bred. Also no registration papers? Come on now. Surely there must be another breeder relativity close who sounds more legit.


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## Poodlemana (Sep 14, 2013)

She is very small and, if not eating well, could develop low blood sugar. Feed her small meals, several times a day (more often than you would a larger puppy.). You might ask your vet for advice on that. Also, keep a bottle of Karo syrup handy. If she seems lethargic or uncoordinated just get some on your finger and put it in her mouth. She should perk up. If not, get her to the vet. You'll want to keep a close eye on her until she is bigger. It's easy to miss a crash if you don't know to look for it and they can die quickly without intervention. With a bad bite, you will want to be sure to keep her teeth clean. Start working with her now so she will let you brush her teeth. You can ask the vet for advice on that too. Good luck and enjoy your new little girl.


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## Cashmaster (Aug 9, 2020)

Cheeka said:


> The mother has papers but the father doesnt. I have seen photos of both. My previous poodle was purebred but w/o papers so I wasnt too concerned.


I purchased a CKC Registered toy male and paid $1900.00. This lady that I bought from is a Judge for Poodle Shows in US and Canada. I did not have to sign a Non-Breeding contract. A friend of mine also just spoke with a lady that has been trying to sell 2 females since May. They both supposedly have underbite, and also open hernias. She want $2500.00 un-registered. A good --"Stay Clear"! Yikes the vet bills.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Cheeka said:


> The mother has papers but the father doesnt. I have seen photos of both. My previous poodle was purebred but w/o papers so I wasnt too concerned.


That's a really, really high price for a dog that cannot be registered.


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## Eclipse (Apr 26, 2010)

Johanna said:


> That's a really, really high price for a dog that cannot be registered.


And for one with a severe underbite.....


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## ShamrockPoodle (Jan 22, 2017)

Wonder if you could get a report from the vet?I bought a mini poodle for my children years ago—and on the first vet visit I was informed that he had a slight overbite. It did not cause problems and was not super noticeable. I have seen some poodles with pretty obvious teeth problems though and I’m not sure what that looked like as a puppy.


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## Min (Sep 17, 2020)

Cheeka said:


> We are due to pickup our toy poodle on Monday. We have been corresponding with the owner since before birth. She has shared photos of the parents & the pups. They live a good 3+ hours from us so we have not seen puppy in person.
> Puppy had her shots and her physical yesterday at 8 weeks. Owner notified me that vet said all was fine health wise but did add that puppy has a slight underbite which neither parent has.
> So.. Im googling like crazy and reading all sorts of stuff.
> This is my dream "to be silver grey' puppy that Ive searched almost 2 yrs for. The price is $2800.00Cdn which is steep but I know poodles are rare here & these colors are nonexistent anywhere around here( middle of Canada). We are not receiving registration papers but do have to sign a non-breeding contract.
> ...


Hi! How are things with you and your new poodle? Your post came up as I was searching for information on underbites as I have a poodle cross and it has an underbite (aparently mild), it is young so not sure if it will change in any way (either way). We chose it before the underbite occurred and it did not stop us continuing with her and bringing her home now Hope all is okay with your puppy. I'm hoping for reassurance or advice from someone else with the same experiences. Thank you


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Hoping your vet gives you a thumbs up. Let us know.


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## Newmarkphoto (Jun 11, 2020)

I am in the same Dilemma. The breeder called today and said our red toy poodle Is in perfect health but has a underbite and mismatched (white patch under chin). We’re heading to pick him up tomorrow morning. I don’t know what to do. I have a call into our vet. Can the puppy owner tell us how it worked out with you? As of now I think we’ll pick him up and take him to Our vet to get checked And ideally have the understanding if our vet says this will be a issue then we want to return him. We’re paying $2500 in VA/MD 2020.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Newmarkphoto said:


> I am in the same Dilemma. The breeder called today and said our red toy poodle Is in perfect health but has a underbite and mismatched (white patch under chin). We’re heading to pick him up tomorrow morning. I don’t know what to do. I have a call into our vet. Can the puppy owner tell us how it worked out with you? As of now I think we’ll pick him up and take him to Our vet to get checked And ideally have the understanding if our vet says this will be a issue then we want to return him. We’re paying $2500 in VA/MD 2020.


Do you have a link to the breeder contract?

Unfortunately, we've not heard from @Cheeka for a few months now. I've also been hoping for an update.


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## Min (Sep 17, 2020)

Newmarkphoto said:


> I am in the same Dilemma. The breeder called today and said our red toy poodle Is in perfect health but has a underbite and mismatched (white patch under chin). We’re heading to pick him up tomorrow morning. I don’t know what to do. I have a call into our vet. Can the puppy owner tell us how it worked out with you? As of now I think we’ll pick him up and take him to Our vet to get checked And ideally have the understanding if our vet says this will be a issue then we want to return him. We’re paying $2500 in VA/MD 2020.


We have our puppy now, she's gorgeous. Our get is happy with her health. We have been advised to clean her teeth as with any dog with any type of teeth! There are lots of teeth variations with poodles. Our dog is a much loved pet and not bought to breed with. Let us know how you get on!


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Newmarkphoto said:


> I am in the same Dilemma. The breeder called today and said our red toy poodle Is in perfect health but has a underbite and mismatched (white patch under chin). We’re heading to pick him up tomorrow morning. I don’t know what to do. I have a call into our vet. Can the puppy owner tell us how it worked out with you? As of now I think we’ll pick him up and take him to Our vet to get checked And ideally have the understanding if our vet says this will be a issue then we want to return him. We’re paying $2500 in VA/MD 2020.


It will be interesting to see what your vet says. That price whould have been with a pup with no flaws. If your vet says it is ok if it were me I would ask for a lower price.


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## Eclipse (Apr 26, 2010)

kontiki said:


> It will be interesting to see what your vet says. That price whould have been with a pup with no flaws. If your vet says it is ok if it were me I would ask for a lower price.


Totally agree. If the $2,500 is the price the breeder is charging for the other pups in the litter, yours should be less as it has an underbite, which is a conformation flaw per the breed standard - it doesn't matter that you don't intend to show - AND is mismarked as well. People don't tend to want to think of living things in terms of "damaged" or "imperfect" but taking emotion out of it, would you pay full price for a sweater with a hole in it or a teacup with a broken handle?


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## Poodlemana (Sep 14, 2013)

More than anything else, I would be concerned that the breeder didn't inform you earlier than the day before you were to pick up the puppy. These are not things that show up overnight. You should have been told as soon as it was noticed which, for the mis-mark, would have been at birth. Bites can change as the pup's jaw grows but you usually have an idea it is going to happen. You should have been kept informed. If the breeder kept this information from you, what else have they held back? As far as the under-bite, as long as it isn't really serious, you should be ok, but having your vet check it is really important. Depending on age, the under-bite can worsen as the jaw lengthens. Your vet can give you an idea of what to expect. With any under-bite, it is very important to brush teeth regularly and get regular vet cleanings.


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