# How to find and read titles and registries? COI and Wycliffe?



## Green Bean (Apr 23, 2020)

Hello!

I am looking for a breeder at the moment and have sent a few emails out, but would like to be able to do some of my own research. For example, one breeder has given me the names of the future dam and sire. I would like to look them both up.

Regarding titles, I think 'cc _name_' means they are a champion, right? That's the best? What does '2x reserved cc' mean? Surely that just means second place in two shows? Not championship? Are there other titles I should know? I don't understand showing at all... i have through some good old fashioned IT skills managed to dig up a few critiques on some breeders poodles, but it's been a real slow slog... is there any one place I could look at all critiques for certain dogs?

Registries! There are so many different websites... i even signed up to one and then couldn't figure out how to search a particular dog. AKC registry I have been unable to find any dog by typing their full name in, even ones which are apparently champions. I have tried just using the affix for this too and still can't find a particular dog, though some others with that affix are listed? Is there a website that will show me problems like addisons on the pedigree? Can I work out COI percentage and Wycliffe myself or can only the breeder have this done?

Thanks!!


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## Green Bean (Apr 23, 2020)

Just spotted another couple of titles... BOB and RCC?


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Here's a list of UK titles. I'm not in the UK, so forgive me if this isn't an accurate list.

CH = Champion
CC = Challenge Certificate (3 legs needs for CH); can also be a Coursing Champion
RCC = Reserve CC (runner up)
BOB = Best of Breed


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## Green Bean (Apr 23, 2020)

Oh I see! Thank you! Is BOB better than CH?


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

At least in the US, the CH title is earned on a point system. You typically have to get BOB in several shows to earn enough points to get the CH title. I imagine it's similar in the UK, though the points and calculations may vary.

And with this, we've pretty much exhausted my knowledge of dog shows, lol. I watched a friend go through it with a non-poodle, and it was a lot of work, a lot of money, and a lot of sucking up to judges.


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## Green Bean (Apr 23, 2020)

Right okay! I don't even want to show  just trying to understand the breeders pages. Thank you!


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## Green Bean (Apr 23, 2020)

Do you know what the difference is between 'the kennel club' 'the united kennel club' and 'the american kennel club'? Can dogs be registered with all 3? Should they?


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Erin123 said:


> Do you know what the difference is between 'the kennel club' 'the united kennel club' and 'the american kennel club'? Can dogs be registered with all 3? Should they?


AKC and UKC are competitors in the US. _The_ Kennel Club is the UK equivalent (I believe).

To make it more confusing, the breed standards are written by breed clubs (e.g. The Poodle Club of America). The breed clubs come together to support the respective kennel club (e.g. American Kennel Club). Some people don't like the breed standard or the politics of the kennel club, so they start their own. I wish we still had breeders and handlers here on PF to counter my cynicism.

As for how many of these clubs one should register with, one should be sufficient. I don't understand how it works with European dogs show in the US or Canada and vice versa.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

UKC has conformation classes for multi-colored dogs and does not penalize undocked tails. It might make sense to register in both AKC (to keep the option open for performance titles) and UKC (for conformation titles) if someone is breeding partis or doesn't dock tails.


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## mashaphan (Sep 4, 2014)

well, in AKC, the points are earned by winner's dog (WD), and winner's bitch (WB), with possible additional pts for Best of Winners, (BW), Best pf Breed (BOB), Best Opposite (BOS) which is just the sex that isn't BOB. In poodles, it would be unlikely that a class (non CH) would be awarded BOB, at least in my chosen variety, standards. Some other abbrev as SBIS (specialty best in show, not an official designation) RBIS (reserve best in show, 2nd to the BIS dog), MBIS, MBOB, just multiple of BIS, BOB. Performance titles can be HIT (High in Trial) OTCH (obedience ch) BIF (best in field, which I think may only be lure coursing, but may apply to hunting as well)


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

AKC is the oldest and strongest dog registry for dogs in the United States. CKC is either the Canadian Kennel Club (a good thing), or the Continental Kennel Club (not a good thing IMHO). KC is the Kennel Club in Great Britain. FCI is the continental European registry. Yes, it is certainly possible for a dog to be registered with more than one registry. In fact, dogs who are imported are usually registered both in the country of origin and the country in which they reside. This is usually the case when a dog is shown in different parts of the world. 

In Great Britain there are far fewer champions than in the USA because to earn three challenge certificates the dog has to go best of breed - so that usually means beating dogs who are already champions. That was true years ago - it may have changed. You Brits feel free to correct me!

The UKC in the USA is fairly new and its rules are not as stringent as those of AKC. The individual national breed clubs manage the breed standards used by AKC judges to evaluate dogs. So in the case of poodles, the Poodle Club of America has written and maintains the breed standard by which all poodles are judged in AKC shows. Note that the AKC does NOT manage the breed standards, it simply accepts the standards of the national breed clubs. I do not know how the UKC deals with breed standards.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Green Bean said:


> Hello!
> 
> I am looking for a breeder at the moment and have sent a few emails out, but would like to be able to do some of my own research. For example, one breeder has given me the names of the future dam and sire. I would like to look them both up.
> 
> ...


Green Bean, I hope that by now you are the happy owner of a lovely poodle! Here, though, are a couple of answers.

First of all, you need not bother with the AKC unless you want to import a dog! Dogs in Great Britain are registered with the Kennel Club - the British dog registry organization. Occasionally an American dog is imported into Great Britain, but in order to be shown that dog must be registered with the British Kennel Club. Note: The Kennel Club in Britain is, I think, the oldest dog registry. 

Challenge certificates (a "cc") - in Britain a dog must beat all other dogs of its gender at a show to earn a challenge certificate. Challenge certificates are not offered at all shows. So earning a challenge certificate is much, much more difficult for a British dog than earning championship points is for an American dog. There are far fewer champions made up in Britain than in the US, so the title of Champion in Britain is much more significant. 

The OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) does have quite a bit of information about health conditions for dogs who have been registered with it. Most dogs registered with OFA are in the USA or Canada. I think anyone who knows the procedure can work out the COI of a dog. You would need a pedigree that goes back quite a few generations to identify Wycliffe dogs since Jean Lyle died some years ago. That said, a huge percentage of American standard poodles have Wycliffe in the background.


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