# English Saddle Cut and Dog Shows



## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

I can't speak to showing your poodle in the E.S. trim, but I can agree with you that I love it. I put my girl in a modified version of it a couple of months ago and LOVED it. 
http://www.poodleforum.com/showthread.php?t=1062

Of course I had a moment of insanity at work a while back and decided I would like less hair. Soooo I attempted to try and shorten the overall cut with a gaurd comb and was somehow shocked that I basicly ruined the cut LoL. It was kind of a DUH!! moment. I could have saved it... maybe, but it wasn't worth it. I did this http://www.poodleforum.com/showthread.php?t=1385 instead. 

Of course... now I have enough hair to round off her braceletts, which I did last week, but I no longer have the E.S. on her. All that remains now is the faint impression of where the lines in the back legs were. Oh well  Maybe I'll put it back in the fall?


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Well, I think the ES trim just isnt prefered anymore. It used to be popular many years ago but I have never seen a Poodle in the ES trim at a show yet since 2001. 

I personally do NOT like that clip (no offence) but there are a few that like it too. I think having a Poodle in the ES clip amoung the prefered Cont clip would cost you wins, sorry to say. 

Also, the black and white Poodle color thing is absolutely true. Black and white are the prefered color's amoung judges. Most newbies (myself) start with black and white dogs and then venture to colored poodles after they have established themselves. Also, most breeders for show will only sell you a black and white dog if your new. If your planning to hire a known pro handler, thats different. New owner handler's, almost always advised to start with black and white.


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## Sivaro (Sep 19, 2008)

I love the ES clip, but dont like it on standard poodles. Really dont think it suits them. Plenty I have seen in continental look stunning. This is just my opionion and its up to the owner how they want to put their dogs in.

Ive put my minis and toys in ES clip, only some I have done continental.

Edited to say black and whites are easier to show, but a really nice coloured dog shouldnt let you down. More and more I have seen coloured dogs win.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> . I think having a Poodle in the ES clip amoung the prefered Cont clip would cost you wins, sorry to say.


Yes this is true , My sister wanted to put Enzo in ES clip when he turns adult but Terry told us he will not win because the judge will think we are hiding something ..... With dog shows its so political you need to really just copy everyone and when you become know that's when you bust out with something different lol.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

The continental is the easiest show clip to maintain hints the reason its so popular in the show ring.

As for color, what wins gets bred and what started winning was blacks and whites. Same goes for any other breed like Pomeranian's, people are shocked when they find out they come in other colors. :lol:

I'm always the one to suggest you be bold and go with what YOU like not what other people think you should like.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Purple Poodle said:


> The continental is the easiest show clip to maintain hints the reason its so popular in the show ring.
> 
> As for color, what wins gets bred and what started winning was blacks and whites. Same goes for any other breed like Pomeranian's, people are shocked when they find out they come in other colors. :lol:
> 
> I'm always the one to suggest you be bold and go with what YOU like not what other people think you should like.



I know people do not realize many breeds come in more than one color. Like PP said what wins gets bred so colors get bred out ..... Beagles come in many hound colors but you only see tricolor. 

My sister is bold so we got a red and reds barely win ( standards)


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## blakeenfan (May 4, 2009)

*thanks to everyone who answered my earlier question*

I know the winning standard at Westminster 1997 was in an EC cut, but I thought her leg puffs were way too huge. I can't imagine a judge thinking a classic 1930s or 40s EC cut was hiding anything: The hair on the legs was beautifully contoured to the body. Once again, look at the Blakeen dogs! Done right, it is stunning and looks good on a standard. I would love to get a bunch of exhibitors to enter a show in EC cuts.... 

Gotta go...more later


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Yep, that would be a sight to see. A line up of Poodles in the ES clip. 

Color wise, I personally happen to like black and white Poodle so it works out great for me. Ive seen silver's, browns, blues and reds/apricots and I only would have a silver out of those colors. I plan to only breed solids in black, white/cremes and silver one day. I know other color's come up from what's behind the lines but we will have to evaluate that when it happens. 

I already have someone talking to me about using Sting to there red female they own in a few yrs. Im personally not interested. 

So far the only attractive red dog Ive seen is Enzo. Other's are cute but nothing to whooo about.


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

lol, there really is no hiding when your butt is shaved bald is there ? LoL. 

I could see how a judge might think to question a dog in an E.S. now that you bring it up. You can do a lot with hair, even if it's short hair. Of course you can adjust a continental too and make things appear different if you need too. A good judge would see right through that, but well as a handler your job is to present the dog to it's best advantage. 

I'm curious, even though you dont see many dogs in the E.S. at most shows do they have at least a few at a specailty show or is the trim *that* out of fashion that it really isn't used much at all. I would love to see a few at shows, what a neat picture that would make


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> Yep, that would be a sight to see. A line up of Poodles in the ES clip.
> 
> Color wise, I personally happen to like black and white Poodle so it works out great for me. Ive seen silver's, browns, blues and reds/apricots and I only would have a silver out of those colors. I plan to only breed solids in black, white/cremes and silver one day. I know other color's come up from what's behind the lines but we will have to evaluate that when it happens.
> 
> ...


Thanks Jenn for you kind complements  yes it is true that most reds are nothing whoo about it took my sister a LONG time to find him. I like Terry's dogs and thats about it , its hard finding nice show ones that are actually red and not apricot. There are a few breeders trying to get quality reds right now.


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## spoofan (Dec 11, 2008)

Roxy...did you see the website for Bijou poodles.
Their male Razz did really well in a show ring.
He is a stunning red.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

spoofan said:


> Roxy...did you see the website for Bijou poodles.
> Their male Razz did really well in a show ring.
> He is a stunning red.


Yes I been there several times , ( I have heard bad info from that breeder) my sister was going to pay for one of her dogs , but as we got more familar with the poodle standard , we decided that her dogs where not what we where looking for. Razz is nice looking and she has a female I like but most of her dogs I would not say are quality enough to show in AKC. She also breeds them oversized IMO who wants a bitch 28inchs at the withers ? She is also the one that says her dogs does not fade ..... let me just stop there lol


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## blakeenfan (May 4, 2009)

*Wow, Razz is GORGEOUS!*

I have no idea about what sort of breeder Bijou actually is, but I was blown away by Razz! What a beauty!


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## blakeenfan (May 4, 2009)

Sivaro said:


> I love the ES clip, but dont like it on standard poodles. Really dont think it suits them. Plenty I have seen in continental look stunning. This is just my opionion and its up to the owner how they want to put their dogs in.
> 
> Ive put my minis and toys in ES clip, only some I have done continental.
> 
> Edited to say black and whites are easier to show, but a really nice coloured dog shouldnt let you down. More and more I have seen coloured dogs win.


I took a cell-phone pic of an absolutely stunning photo of a white standard in an ES clip at Westminster I think will change your mind, assuming I can get said photo from my phone and onto this forum...can you tell me how?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Wow! This thread is over two years old, LOL!

Anyway, my boy is in English Saddle! 

He is freshly cut into pattern in these photos (as in..he was in puppy trim 3 days before these photos!), so the cut does not look nearly as good as it will when he's got more hair. Can't wait to see how he looks in April!


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

LOL--I was wondering when you would pipe up, CM! Tiger pulls off the ES nicely.

--Q


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

I was told the ES looks best on a smaller dog. Most of the standards shown have to much leg to give good balance. Plus you need a ton more jacket coat .
I think it looks nice on Minis, but over powers a toy.
Here is the start of an ES on a small standard. Rhiannon is about 21".


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I think Tiger suits is well, but I do not know if it conditioning or what, but I really love the Continental now. When I was a kid most of the show dogs were in ES. Maybe that is why I prefer the CC .


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I love both. I am really liking the English Saddle right now because I don't see a lot of it. I too have heard that you need a lot of jacket hair to pull it off and that you cannot be too leggy. Somehow Tiger manages pulls it off being extremely leggy and not having a ton of jacket hair. His handler and crew actually think that, aside from growing some hair to smooth it out and make it less boxy (and to eliminate the tight scissoring on back of thigh left over from puppy cut), he really doesn't need much more hair. 

Anyway, I'd love to see the cut on the Westminster standard! Will surely put Tiger to shame, LOL!


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Tiger's a gorgeous boy; he can hold his own against all comers!


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## Sapphire-Light (Jun 9, 2010)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Wow! This thread is over two years old, LOL!
> 
> Anyway, my boy is in English Saddle!
> 
> He is freshly cut into pattern in these photos (as in..he was in puppy trim 3 days before these photos!), so the cut does not look nearly as good as it will when he's got more hair. Can't wait to see how he looks in April!


Wow stunning!! :angel: the clip is very interesting  first time I see it wit the square corners it looks like hard work :adore:, I only have seen the ES in old pics and its all rounded .

He also got so huge so fast!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Sapphire-Light said:


> Wow stunning!! :angel: the clip is very interesting  first time I see it wit the square corners it looks like hard work :adore:, I only have seen the ES in old pics and its all rounded .
> 
> He also got so huge so fast!


Ha. Well, it's supposed to be rounded and it will be as he grows more coat. He was in a very tightly clipped puppy trim and the transition to English Saddle was thus a little boxy.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I like seeing different cuts and wish the AKC allowed more of them. Are they afraid everyone will end up in a sporting? Tiger looks great in his English Saddle!


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## Sapphire-Light (Jun 9, 2010)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Ha. Well, it's supposed to be rounded and it will be as he grows more coat. He was in a very tightly clipped puppy trim and the transition to English Saddle was thus a little boxy.


Thanks for the info  how old is he now? I can't wait to see pics of him when he gets the full ES.

I would love to see Pompadour in a ES, sadly his topknot fell during the coat change, and now it was getting long but the got a nasty allegy attack from a plumbing job in my house and his topknot fell again :argh:


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Sapphire-Light said:


> Thanks for the info  how old is he now? I can't wait to see pics of him when he gets the full ES.
> 
> I would love to see Pompadour in a ES, sadly his topknot fell during the coat change, and now it was getting long but the got a nasty allegy attack from a plumbing job in my house and his topknot fell again :argh:


He is just 13 months old. . Still very much a puppy 

The photos I posted of him in ES were taken at 12 months. In fact, the one of him banded and stacked (not show photo) is on his first birthday only minutes after being cut out into pattern. 

The other two photos were 2 and 3 days after his first birthday/being cut out. Things will certainly be more rounded as he grows hair!


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I can't stand the Poodle Clips in the AKC ring. The AKC & PCA should get rid of them. Spoo's are working hunting dog & therefore should be in a Sporting clip or a HCC which is my favorite without rosettes. I know the AKC & PCA allow the HCC but very few ever show in that clip. I think it would be great to stack a classes with all HCC & go from there. The outragous lengths, spray ups, wigs (some) etc.. get them out of the ring.


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

I've learn to like most of the clips...and Like the HHC WITH rosettes..lol

even if PCA allows the sporting clip, it will be a very stylized


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## Sapphire-Light (Jun 9, 2010)

tintlet said:


> I've learn to like most of the clips...and Like the HHC WITH rosettes..lol
> 
> even if PCA allows the sporting clip, it will be a very stylized


Wish one is the HHC ?


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

sorry..typo..was to HCC..lol must be getting Oldtimers..


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Sapphire-Light said:


> Wish one is the HHC ?


Historically Correct Continental... Basically what you see in the show ring except trimmed down with a regular pet Topknot and not banded.

Personally I LOVE the Continental, I think they look elegant. I dont find it as difficult to do as many people make it seem either. Hell people think the more basic poodle grooms are difficult to do.. Besides one of the main pros I like about the Continental is that there is less you can hide, such as straight stifles ugg! Do you know how many faults I could hide in a sporting lol? I saw one HCC at a show and the dog just didnt look as impressive or beautiful to me.


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

*I'm new here--reviving the ES clip thread with a question*

I've just read the threads that showed up in my search for "English saddle clip" (they're a few years old) because I didn't want to start a discussion that had been done to death.

I'm new to poodles and new to conformation, but I'm game to give it a go. In fact, I had the baby out to a whole weekend of UKC shows in September (2012) but was disappointed to find he was the only standard poodle--indeed, the only poodle of any description--on the whole showgrounds. So we got 100 points but with NO competition, which actually felt pretty disappointing. On the other hand, I found exhibitors to be very friendly and generous with advice, and one handler pulled me off the sideline to run one of her "lesser" dogs in best of breed. I had a blast and learned a lot.

So the poodle baby will be a year old in February 2012 and I recently went to the woman who has his sire, an AKC champion, to set my boy's show clip. In UKC, you can show in sporting, continental, or English Saddle. Because someone once asked me how I like my Labradoodle--I thought I'd make it perfectly clear this was a POODLE.

I wanted an English saddle clip, mostly because I don't like the look of the shaved back end. That's a personal preference--don't think I'm throwing mud around at anyone. The groomer said most people look at an English saddle and immediately assume you're hiding something. And the way she set it, it does hide too much, I think. I asked about the length of hair in the middle section of the leg and she said the shorter look went out in the 1920s, even though you can find it in poodle books still in print. However, I LIKE that look.

So I'm not 100% happy with the English saddle as he's currently wearing it, either. I think the hair on the back end is, well, too pouffy. I'd be inclined to take it down to 1/4 inch on the pack AND the leg above the hock. Sort of give him a pair of Speedos versus the formal trousers he's wearing now. After all, his legs have nothing to hide, at least in my opinion.

So, if I do that, what kind of trouble am I setting myself up for? Laughing and finger-pointing? Or will no one notice, since the clip doesn't seem to be all that common? Or will he be appreciated for setting a bold, retro look?

In any event, he's a happy boy, asleep at my feet as I type this, and truly, my biggest worry in the conformation ring is to keep him from mugging the judge in his exuberance to meet his new best friend.

Also, before you ask, I got the boy as a performance prospect and UKC works well for me to get him out and used to a show atmosphere. I'm told AKC conformation is a lot more $$ because finishing a standard poodle is too big a job for an amateur like me. UKC, though, does not allow paid handlers.

Here's his "after" picture, right after his clip was set:


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I think it looks very nice! I wouldn't take the pack any shorter personally because you want it to be balanced.


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## fairhavenmagick (Jan 19, 2011)

mvhplank- did you place in the group ring at all? If so, you may have picked up a competition win there as long as you placed over at least one dog.

And I also like that length (not that I know much about it). When I first got my poodle I figured she would be kept almost nekkid. But you quickly get used to the longer hair, he looks good!


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I think it looks very nice! I wouldn't take the pack any shorter personally because you want it to be balanced.


Coming from a short-coated breed, I'm having a hard time understanding "balance" after you've cut down the back half of the body.  However, the look is growing on me and we'll maintain it at least through a show or two. But if I ever get the AKC bug, I guess I'll have to put him in a continental after all.

I don't think I said that he isn't really black, as we all thought he might be. His mother is black but I met his father at the groomer's and he's blue, and a very nice color, I think. The groomer declared that Neely is also a blue. I'll put a link to the picture of his father below. This one's from Google instead of Facebook. Let me know if it doesn't show up for you.

She said that Dustin (Ch. Lyndale Double Delight) is in a German clip after having gone to Grooming Expo. I think I'd enjoy that clip sometime after Neely is through with conformation.


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

fairhavenmagick said:


> mvhplank- did you place in the group ring at all? If so, you may have picked up a competition win there as long as you placed over at least one dog.
> 
> And I also like that length (not that I know much about it). When I first got my poodle I figured she would be kept almost nekkid. But you quickly get used to the longer hair, he looks good!


My bad--I didn't say it here, but he did not place in group. In UKC, there are a lot of nice gun dog breeds and we were fairly beaten, especially since he was basically out of control and I'm pretty clueless about presenting a dog. But lots of people could tell I was struggling and they--and the judges--gave very helpful advice and encouragement.

Thanks on his behalf for the compliments! I told friends that he stops traffic, literally. I could rob a bank with him and no one would even be able to say what color I was wearing.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

mvhplank said:


> Coming from a short-coated breed, I'm having a hard time understanding "balance" after you've cut down the back half of the body.  However, the look is growing on me and we'll maintain it at least through a show or two. But if I ever get the AKC bug, I guess I'll have to put him in a continental after all.
> 
> I don't think I said that he isn't really black, as we all thought he might be. His mother is black but I met his father at the groomer's and he's blue, and a very nice color, I think. The groomer declared that Neely is also a blue. I'll put a link to the picture of his father below. This one's from Google instead of Facebook. Let me know if it doesn't show up for you.
> 
> She said that Dustin (Ch. Lyndale Double Delight) is in a German clip after having gone to Grooming Expo. I think I'd enjoy that clip sometime after Neely is through with conformation.


Well, you can keep the pack in AKC! My GCH boy showed AKC in his English Saddle!


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Well, you can keep the pack in AKC! My GCH boy showed AKC in his English Saddle!


Good to know. Anecdotal evidence is that judges will put up a dog in a Continental before one in English saddle. My friend who's helping me groom the new boy finished one of her Minis, but not until they took her out of English saddle and into Continental on the advice of the handler.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

mvhplank said:


> Good to know. Anecdotal evidence is that judges will put up a dog in a Continental before one in English saddle. My friend who's helping me groom the new boy finished one of her Minis, but not until they took her out of English saddle and into Continental on the advice of the handler.


PCA 2012 mini WB was in ES


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

Ladyscarletthawk said:


> PCA 2012 mini WB was in ES


Then I can just assume that the groomer just didn't like ES, huh? I don't expect to show him until our March UKC shows in Mechanicsburg, PA, and April UKC (with Total Dog) near Biglerville, PA. He turns 1 year on Feb. 9--I hope I'll have something to brag about this spring.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

Save up your money & go to the UKC Premier in Kalamazoo Michigan. I have only been 1x but loved it. Well back a good 18 years & showed my Mixed breeds in Agility & Obed. I have heard it is large & there will be lots of poodles. I will be going, my breeder from Florida, at least 2-3 Poodle breeders here in NC will be going. Then again many of us will be showing in the Multi Color Poodle ring but still you will find solids showing as well. You can see some of the Poodles that were showing at UKC Premier 2012 if you go to the Multi Colored Poodle website. Their recent Newsletter had photos of winning Poodles. Anyway, I will be going to that show but before that I will be going to a show in Virginia & in Hickory NC. Do you know the dates for the PA shows. A bit far for me BUT you never know.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

Totally forgot to say that in the Shirley Kalstone Poodle book there is a stunning White Spoo in an ESS with a CURLY pack & I so love looking at that picture. I am not a fan of the Continental BUT I love the Scandi & the variations from other countries- the English Puppy, T-Clip etc... So much elegance & flair.


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

3dogs said:


> ... Do you know the dates for the PA shows. A bit far for me BUT you never know.


If I have a windfall, I'll certainly consider Kalamazoo, but I'm a self-employed editor, so income isn't predictable. 

For you, and for anyone who's a bit closer, here's the show schedule just within an hour or so of Gettysburg. I understand there's also a Total Dog conformation/rally event in Bel Air, MD, on Mother's Day weekend.


3/9/2013-3/10/2013: OTCH (Obedience Training Class of Harrisburg): UKC Conformation. Indoors. (I'm show chairman--our first 4-show weekend!)
4/27/2013-4/28/2013: TNT Canines: UKC Conformation / Total Dog	South Mountain Fairgrounds near Biglerville, PA. Conformation indoors, Rally under roof in open pavilions.
7/27/2013-7/28/2013: OTCH: UKC Conformation. Indoors.

There are also UKC Rally/Agility events, but it sounds like you're looking for conformation.

I haven't been paying attention to AKC events, but the breeder and her mom are both into AKC obedience and rally and I'm being "encouraged" to go along to the specialty in Salisbury, MD, in April.


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

3dogs said:


> Totally forgot to say that in the Shirley Kalstone Poodle book there is a stunning White Spoo in an ESS with a CURLY pack & I so love looking at that picture....


I've got that book! I bought it before I even brought Neely home. 

And the groomer did say that the pack is supposed to be curly, so I'm with you on that! Love that Persian lamb look.


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## cindyreef (Sep 28, 2012)

Forgive my newbe question but I want to know. What is the "curly pack" and what does ESS stand for?
Thks


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## HerdingStdPoodle (Oct 17, 2012)

*Grooming Goddesses*

Wow. These cuts are beautiful. 

I think all of you are Grooming Goddesses to accomplish an English Saddle or Continental Cut. 

For me, it is hard to not want to touch---so I have to put my hands behind my back and walk by....

HerdingStdPoodle


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Yes the ES should have a curly pack!


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

mvhplank said:


> Then I can just assume that the groomer just didn't like ES, huh? I don't expect to show him until our March UKC shows in Mechanicsburg, PA, and April UKC (with Total Dog) near Biglerville, PA. He turns 1 year on Feb. 9--I hope I'll have something to brag about this spring.


Not necessarily, some dogs can't do the ES. If done incorrectly the dog will look to have faults when it doesn't or at least accentuate them. PCA WB is a Very short backed typey bitch with nice movement and good reach & drive. I would love to see more angulation on her but she looked very nice in the ES. I don't think my girl will look as nice but I have till May to keep growing coat. If the ES doesn't do her justice I'll have plenty of time to put her back into the continental. 


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

ES looked very good on PCA WB!! Now, my dog is not your super short-backed type - he is more square and has adequate length of back to accommodate his ample bend and length of his rear legs - (without being long in the body). 

Here are photos of him in ESC, CC, and cut down. You can decide which clip suited him best. Honestly, I think he looked better in CC because it showed off his rear. I think the ESC would have looked much better if we'd had more jacket hair. But he was only 1.5 years old, and my first show coat.


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

cindyreef said:


> Forgive my newbe question but I want to know. What is the "curly pack" and what does ESS stand for?
> Thks


I'm a poodle newbie too--the pack is area of hair that looks like a pair of shorts in an English Saddle (ES) or English Saddle Clip (ESC). It's the show trim that's an acceptable alternative to the Continental in AKC. UKC also allows these two trims, plus the sporting trim. Just above this answer should be some pictures that illustrate the differences. 

The Continental and English Saddle are pretty much the same on the front part of the dog. In the back, though ...

--The Continental has the shaved back end and pom-poms on the hip. 
--The English saddle has the pack, which is allowed to be curly, not fluffed and brushed out, thus "curly pack," with fluffy hair in between a shaved band above the hock and a shaved band just above the stifle.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> ES looked very good on PCA WB!! Now, my dog is not your super short-backed type - he is more square and has adequate length of back to accommodate his ample bend and length of his rear legs - (without being long in the body).
> 
> Here are photos of him in ESC, CC, and cut down. You can decide which clip suited him best. Honestly, I think he looked better in CC because it showed off his rear. I think the ESC would have looked much better if we'd had more jacket hair. But he was only 1.5 years old, and my first show coat.


Well I love this type best over the very short back look. The ES definitely hides his angulation and out of both ES pix my eye keeps jumping to the first.. He looks shorter backed in the pic. I think my girl is more like your boy so she would prob look more like him in the ES. What do you think? Here are some pix of her.. Here is also a couple pix of PCA WB in a continental In the group ring.

































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## blakeenfan (May 4, 2009)

Actually I loved the "boxy" version - the mistake people make with the ES is thinking the need to make gigantic Michelin Man leg puffs....If you look at vintage pix from the 40s you'll notice many Standards with close-cut pacs and puffs, which look superb. Check out Ensarr Navy in Poodles in Particular....if you want to see an AWESOME white Standard in the ES check of my FB page (Payson Terhune, which I beg you (or anyone) to "steal" and re-post here.


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## blakeenfan (May 4, 2009)

Hooray! I just found the Poodle Forum FB page. One gorgeous photo coming right up!


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

Ha! It's interesting to see this old thread brought back to life again. Neely finished his championship last year in an HCC and we have two wins toward grand champion (we need three more). He has started his performance career and seems to enjoy rally but is surprising me in obedience too. We're still a pretty rough and rowdy team, but his second appearance in UKC Rally Obedience 2 (off-leash) earned a perfect score and high in trial.

I've settled on the "modified" version of the clip (no hip poms) and I'm finding it easy to keep up, unlike the English Saddle, which really is a lot of work--the less shaving, the more scissoring, it turns out. 

Oh--his full sister and littermate is the #1 poodle in UKC conformation right now (late 2014). But she doesn't do any performance, as far as I know. As I said earlier, I wanted a performer (he has about 9 titles now, in rally and obedience), and I was using conformation to get him used to the hubbub at a show site.


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## blakeenfan (May 4, 2009)

Hey, I finally did post that awesome ES photo of the white Standard at the 1957 or 8 Westminster on the PoodleForum FB page. Has anyone seen it yet? I'm about to post a few more, including some great shots of that years BIS, the stunning black mini Fontclair Festoon....


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

blakeenfan said:


> Hey, I finally did post that awesome ES photo of the white Standard at the 1957 or 8 Westminster on the PoodleForum FB page. Has anyone seen it yet? I'm about to post a few more, including some great shots of that years BIS, the stunning black mini Fontclair Festoon....


Please post it here, or at least a direct URL. Not everybody plays on Facebook, and there are MANY Facebook pages with "poodle" and "forum" in the name--you didn't say which one.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

There was a mini at a show we attended this weekend in an ES.


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## blakeenfan (May 4, 2009)

How do I post it here?


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

blakeenfan said:


> How do I post it here?


You need to post a link, not upload the picture. 

In the message composition box, there's an icon that looks like a box with a mountain in it. Click that and paste or type in the URL. 

If it's a picture on Facebook, get the URL by clicking the picture (to open it in a lightbox), then right-click the picture and chose "view image." that opens the picture in a window by itself and you can copy the Web address (the URL) from the browser address window.


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## blakeenfan (May 4, 2009)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=350050301833284&l=f767a0f400 is the url for the picture of the amazing Standard. Tell me if this works....if it doesn't my FB name is Payson Terhune and the poodle pix are on my homepage. Steal away!


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

Here you go, Blakeenfan:


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## itzmeigh (Apr 28, 2014)

mvhplank said:


> Here you go, Blakeenfan:



That is awesome! Look at those highwaters! His jacket and topknot are very very cool! 

Thanks for sharing.


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## loves (Jul 2, 2013)

OMG!! Grooming has come a long way and improved so much.


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## blakeenfan (May 4, 2009)

I think this is the most gorgeous clip I've ever seen....


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