# 1 year old Toy Poodle vs Miniature Puppy



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Size wise

in the photo here is
left to right
14lb 12" silver mini Fannie, 10lb 13" silver beige over size toy Baby, 10lb 10" phantom Flower


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## marialydia (Nov 23, 2013)

Smaller dogs are definitely more portable. But, two things:

A lot depends on how gentle/ rambunctious your twins are. Will they be likely to play a bit rougher, and how careful will they be with a smaller pooch? Having said all that many 8 pound poodles are more than able to keep up with long walks and with active families. Maybe some Poodle Forumers with smaller dogs who have experience with children will weigh in on that.

The other issue to remind you to have clarity on the problems that led this pup to be returned to the breeder, and to be sure that they are things that you can deal with. A small dog that was not well treated, might have residual problems that will take as much or more time from you, as a puppy. If it were only a question of correct feeding, and proper grooming, that would be easier...


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Merlin is an oversized toy, 12 inces but he has a small frame and he is only 6 pounds.

Some toys will be good with kids, but generally speaking, if they haven't been raised with them from a very early age, they are not as good as bigger dogs. Miniatures would be sturdier and better in my opinion.

I would never buy a toy dog to be with kids without meeting the dog in person or having someone I trust do it. Or seeing tons of videos as proof they are very comfortable with youngsters.

There is real risk of having to rehome the dog if he feels threatened by kids. Toys are very aware of their size, and they want to protect themselves. Kids have a very different and bizarre energy and dogs who haven't been used to it young might have a problem with it.

Please be careful. For your family, amd the dog.


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## Tlynn (Jul 28, 2017)

Thanks everyone. Don't get me wrong- my kids can be loud and annoying, but more in a giggly silly way than a rough physical way. They are quite active (Like doing handstands around the house), so they would have to get used to watch out for the dog, but they wouldn't be rough with a dog in the way that a younger child would. This is part of the reason we waited this long. I am going to ask the breeder if she has seen this dog interact with kids, though, as I hadn't considered that a small dog would feel threatened. 
As far as problems experienced with the previous owner, the breeder thinks it was basically an unsuitable household - the owner was busy with several small children and didn't have time for the dog. She came back underweight, but eventually came around to being happy and healthy again (has been back with breeder several months now).
The dog is 11 inches (so, quite tall for a toy, I believe).


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

this is 8lb ~10 1/2" tall toy Beatrice with 13 lb Walter the cat, toys are quite small, think smaller that a 12"x 12" tile


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Tlynn said:


> I am going to ask the breeder if she has seen this dog interact with kids, though, as I hadn't considered that a small dog would feel threatened.
> 
> The dog is 11 inches (so, quite tall for a toy, I believe).


11 inches is not that tall for a toy, they are often more than 10 inches. Still a small dog.

When I got my Chihuahua at 1 year old, my son was 9. I had prepped him amd told him to be gentle, and told him to not make sudden moves or loud noises.

We were just getting in the car with the new dog, he didn't listen to me, wanted her on his lap, made a few sudden gestures and spoke too loud and he scared her. It took a whole year before she let him get close to her again. Meanwhile, he was forbidden to touch her because she would have bitten in fear, to protect herself.

I'm not saying this will happen to you, but small dogs are a whole different game.


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## asuk (Jan 6, 2017)

We recently got a mini. my kids sounds like yours which is why the dog need a "safe space". I tell mine, if they are not watching the dog or they want to do cartwheels in the house, (he is only 10.5 weeks now & we are watching him like a hawk for potty training,) he gets crated. He doesn't mind the crate, but that was training.

His first week, it was really like having a newborn. By the 2nd week, he was sleeping through and more relaxed. One thing I find is, my kids excitement level was through the roof, I had to tell them to not be in his face all the time. I also enforced puppy rest time.

I'd be very wary with a return dog esp with kids. We are socializing milo like crazy and desensitizing him to a lot of things. his breeder did an excellent job, we just continued on.

Good luck!


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

We had a tpoo when our kids were young. My girls were very gentle, sensitive and mature in behavior and we had no problems. I don't remember her weight or height, but my ragdoll cats were larger than her.

Last year I got a minipoo that was almost a year old - she was a puppy held back by the breeder to be a show dog and she grew a little too tall which is why she is mine and not on the show circuit. I was lucky, the breeder did a fabulous job socializing my dog and I continued when I got her. However I know someone who got a beautiful purebred dog off Craig's list from a family who loved their dog but had to rehome it because of their child's allergies. This dog was never physically harmed - but the dog was not properly socialized, spent most of it's life in a fenced in backyard and three years later is so fearful of other dogs that it's on Prozac and under treatment by a vet behaviorist after many sessions with various trainers. 

I mention this because it's so important to understand the background of this tpoo that you are considering - why are they rehoming? If you are lucky, it will be a dog you can take home and love............ but if this dog has problems, you may prefer to stick to your plan of a puppy that you can control the socialization appropriately.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I second the points made by marialydia and Dechi on making sure there are not serious issues with this pup.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I don't think I'd buy a dog without meeting it first to assess it's temperment...... especially a toy poodle, who are known to be a little more sensitive.....secondly, although a toy poodle may be 11 inches tall it doesn't mean it will be built sturdily like a mini who has more 'substance' in it's bone structure. You might ask if the toy is of fine bone structure or is it sturdier like a small mini
My girl is 11 inches and weighs 13lbs while her friend down the street is the same height, he is only half her weigh because of his tiny bones!
Here is a pic of my mini with the black toy poodle neighbor....you can see how my girl is substantially heavier boned but is the same height!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think I would go for the miniature puppy, for all the reasons already given. A one year old will come with baggage - possibly nothing major, probably manageable with time and experience, but inevitably there will be issues. A pup that was not socialised in its formative months is likely to need to play catch up for years - it does not take outright neglect or ill-treatment to create problems, and rehabilitation can be hard work. If you were able to meet the dog, and perhaps take it on a home trial, it would be different but I would be very wary of taking an adult sight unseen.

Provided you have done due diligence about the temperament, breeding and early months of the miniature pup you will be raising this new member of your family yourself. I would rather take on the hard work of raising a baby than the equally hard work of raising a teenager with possible issues!


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## Tlynn (Jul 28, 2017)

Thank you all for the advice. It seems clear that I hadn't given the "baggage"' issue enough weight in this decision. I think I am also nervous about not knowing really what to expect with raising a puppy (and expecting the worst!). Now the problem is my husband and I fell in love with the red colour of the older dog. It seems that it is difficult to find red puppies. I know we should logically go with the black ones (which is our second favourite colour anyway), but that red was so striking!


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I had 2 beautiful red toys they were a mahogany deep red, they are in my signature, but the both faded out to apricot. Most reds I have been around have faded, one of mine is 4 the other 14


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## kchen95 (Jan 6, 2016)

Tlynn said:


> Thank you all for the advice. It seems clear that I hadn't given the "baggage"' issue enough weight in this decision. I think I am also nervous about not knowing really what to expect with raising a puppy (and expecting the worst!). Now the problem is my husband and I fell in love with the red colour of the older dog. It seems that it is difficult to find red puppies. I know we should logically go with the black ones (which is our second favourite colour anyway), but that red was so striking!


Just to give further perspective, I don't think anyone is saying outright that you should not get this 1-year-old; rather, the message is simply that you should find out more about the dog - all the good and the bad - before making a final decision. 

I also decided to get my dog Vontae, a 2-year-old oversized toy- severely oversized, at 13+ inches and 13+ lbs - rather than a puppy for all the reasons you mentioned. When I was single, I had raised a Sheltie from puppyhood to adulthood and while I absolutely cherished that experience, this time around I was realistic in knowing that I simply didn't have the time to go through the puppy phase now that I'm married with two toddlers. Vontae turned out to be a great fit for me and my family - plenty active to be a sporting companion for me, small enough to live in an apartment, and gentle enough to be a great little brother to his human sisters. But, before committing to Vontae, I had the luxury of visiting him frequently to make sure he was a good fit - his breeder lives in the same city as me. Vontae's breeder runs a dog grooming school, and Vontae spent the first two years of his life as a beloved pet of one of the breeder's students and as a "dog model" for all the grooming students in the school, so he was well socialized - the excitement that he shows every time I bring him back to the school for his haircut is proof of how much he was loved and and how well he was treated before I adopted him. 

While you won't be able to visit the 1-year-old that you're considering, I would suggest having a very open, in-depth discussion with the breeder about every aspect of this dog. Be very honest and transparent about what you will and will not be able to do for/with the dog, given your family circumstances, and listen carefully to what the breeder has to say. If the breeder really cares about the well being of her dog, she will welcome this conversation, and she will be just as transparent in her responses. 

If, after this discussion of brutal honesty, you end up feeling good about the dog, absolutely, positively get it!!!  As I mentioned, there really are a lot of perks associated with an older trained dog. 

Hope this helps. Good luck! 

Kevin


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## asuk (Jan 6, 2017)

Tlynn said:


> Thank you all for the advice. It seems clear that I hadn't given the "baggage"' issue enough weight in this decision. I think I am also nervous about not knowing really what to expect with raising a puppy (and expecting the worst!). Now the problem is my husband and I fell in love with the red colour of the older dog. It seems that it is difficult to find red puppies. I know we should logically go with the black ones (which is our second favourite colour anyway), but that red was so striking!


Where are you located? I have a red mini that I got from Ontario. Members might be able to point to you red mini breeders in your area.


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## Tlynn (Jul 28, 2017)

*Leads on red minis in Canada?*



asuk said:


> Where are you located? I have a red mini that I got from Ontario. Members might be able to point to you red mini breeders in your area.


 I am in Saskatchewan. Would be willing to drive to neighbouring province or have puppy shipped...


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I think the key part of my thinking in urging caution regarding the older red dog is that this is your first dog (not just first puppy), right? Color doesn't matter, temperament and breeding/health do. If you investigate with the breeder as to why the older pup was returned then that might be another story, but also remember even an oversized toy will be a finer boned dog than a mini, so it partly also depends on how sturdy a dog you are looking for, a hiking companion or a couch and neighborhood stroll companion.


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## Tlynn (Jul 28, 2017)

*After sleeping on it...*

I think a miniature is the way to go. We will just have to figure out how to raise a puppy and put in the time! We could investigate the red dog some more by talking to the breeder, but without meeting the dog I think many of you are right that it would be a considerable risk. The other thing that I realized as I thought about this overnight is that I don't want a really small dog. (Thanks to all of you who helped me to appreciate how much smaller and finer boned the toy would be). A miniature sounds like the right fit for us. We will go with the local puppy unless we are able to find a red. 
Thank you again. I am so glad I posted here and am very appreciative of the time you all took to respond!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Sometimes it is just really helpful to bounce your thoughts off others to help clarify your picture of what needs to happen. I think you will appreciate having a more local connection to the breeder of your pup. And as long as the right health checks and good personality is there you will have less to worry about as new puppy people. I happen to prefer blacks and am happy that Javelin's litter was all black, but would have taken a pup from his breeder's next litter which was all silvers with no problem because I really like the people who are doing the work of producing the wonderful pups that he and his sister (67X's girl) are.


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## Cetra (Jun 26, 2017)

I don't think you will regret going with a mini! We got our first Poodle, just over 3 weeks ago. He's a mini and is just an absolute wonder! We have three children ourselves; 9 months, 2 & 9 years. He's just the right size for us, especially as an active family. 

He's also been incredibly easy to house train, but his breeder did a lot of work with the litter and raised them with puppy culture. He'll be 14 weeks tomorrow and has been a very easy puppy. 


Good luck - I can't wait to see you posting your new companion in the future [emoji4]




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Anza (Jul 15, 2017)

When my sister and I were kids, my mother had a toy poodle. Nice little dog that was not neurotic at all and she was fine with us kids.If this little toy came from a family with a lot of kids, she could already be socialized around them or already be terrified of them depending on how she was handled.

I was in the same predicament as you wanting another dog and trying to choose between and already trained older dog or a puppy. I've had both before. I haven't raised a pup since 2001 and from then till now had adopted two older dogs (one was two and one was three). 

They both have their pros and cons. With the older dogs, you are dealing with what someone else has or hasn't done with them. With the pups you are dealing with training from scratch, house training and chewing. The chewing is not horrible with poodles but still there.

For myself, I was worried about having a pup because I work full time and live by myself. I finally decided to bite the bullet and get a pup because I wanted to train and socialize it the way that I want. I employed my youngest niece to take care of them when I'm gone and it is working out very well. 

Poodles are smart and so easy to train. If I were in your shoes, I would go with the pup that will grow up knowing your girls and their ways. I would also go with a larger dog. Either a mini or a very small standard. My older standard is 21 inches and 35 lbs so not huge but absolutely loves to play with kids and rough housing with them.


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## Tlynn (Jul 28, 2017)

Thanks for the advice. We put a deposit down on the mini puppy last night


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Tlynn said:


> Thanks for the advice. We put a deposit down on the mini puppy last night


 :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I have had a couple of puppies and most were older from 8 months to 5 years. Even thought they were trained by someone else their way, when I got them the rules change. I train an older dog the say as I did the puppies and they will come around and do things the new owners way.

I goto Sage at 5 years, breeder told me she is shy and does not like men, and she was right. Now I do have 2 others so maybe that helped her shyness. But she gets as excited when I say company is coming as the other 2 and goes to the door. Only one man she does not like and she never will, a friend that I go to dinner with and she really dislikes him and won't go to him. I gave on on this one.LOL


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