# Breeder Recommendations/Feedback please



## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

Do you care if the puppy is akc registered at all? Do you care about health testing? It seems that a lot of your requirements are in line with what you may get from a byb, are you opposed to getting one from a byb?


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## poodal_luvah (Mar 11, 2017)

chinchillafuzzy said:


> Do you care if the puppy is akc registered at all? Do you care about health testing? It seems that a lot of your requirements are in line with what you may get from a byb, are you opposed to getting one from a byb?


Health testing is high on my list. I won't get a dog without testing. And I could care less about AKC. AKC is simply a beauty pageant for dogs and it has destroyed more dog breeds than I care to mention. 

Forgive me for asking, but are you speaking of Back Yard Breeder? No thanks. I would not get a dog from a backyard breeder. I will go to Europe for a quality Poodle if no one can provide me with a breeder that meets my criteria here. I may be doing that for a GSD that I want because i do not like what has been done to those dogs. So no, what I described is not someone looking for a backyard breeder at all. It's what I would get if I were still in Europe. Cropping and the removal of dewclaws is viewed as obsolete and unnecessary. And no breeder every asks a potential customer/adopter to pay money and then have their dog fixed. It's not done and it's completely inappropriate to make this request from someone paying money. Do you understand what I'm saying?


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

poodal_luvah said:


> Forgive me for asking, but are you speaking of Back Yard Breeder? No thanks. I would not get a dog from a backyard breeder. I will go to Europe for a quality Poodle if no one can provide me with a breeder that meets my criteria here.


Well, you certainly have put some BYBs high on your list. We are trying to help you find a quality breeder that meets your criteria with respect to S/N and tails and dews, but personally I'm starting to feel like I'm wasting my time. I feel like you'd rather rail against AKC and breeders who care about what happens to their puppies, which is really all the "third degree" is about. I think you should look to Europe because at the rate you're going, you're going to waltz into the arms of a crappy breeder who will sell to anybody who clicks on their Paypal button. 

Pro tip: red and parti poodles are fertile ground for BYBs, because pet people love them. Breeders like Arreau will be the first to tell you you need to be especially careful when looking for them.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

I can't help you in your search, PL, but I'm interested in hearing how it goes. I have many of the same interests you have, but in the US, the majority of breeders who engage in these practices are bybs. There'd be a real niche for a responsible breeder who was willing to give up the show ring, embrace performance trials, and lead the way on humane breeding standards in poodles.


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## poodal_luvah (Mar 11, 2017)

Verve said:


> Well, you certainly have put some BYBs high on your list. We are trying to help you find a quality breeder that meets your criteria with respect to S/N and tails and dews, but personally I'm starting to feel like I'm wasting my time. I feel like you'd rather rail against AKC and breeders who care about what happens to their puppies, which is really all the "third degree" is about. I think you should look to Europe because at the rate you're going, you're going to waltz into the arms of a crappy breeder who will sell to anybody who clicks on their Paypal button.


Verve, thanks. It looks like that's what I will have to do because I will not allow someone to dictate what I need to do in order to get one of their dogs. Honestly, many of these AKC breeders are laughable to me and I'll tell you why. I've been to two breeder websites who actually had the nerve to ask me to fill out an adoption application. Are they trying to fool themselves or me? If I'm paying $2k for a dog it sure as heck isn't an adoption. 

And honestly, all of these stiff requirements are indirectly forced on breeders via the HSUS and other humane societies. One of these website went so far as to put down hobby breeders and only deal with a professional breeder. Then I looked at her application. She wanted more information about me than a breed rescue group. Not only did she require the name of my vet, but also three references that are unrelated to me. And this is for the exclusive right to purchase a dog from her. Honestly, I never! 

Anyway, thank you for chiming in. I know you are trying to help and I truly do appreciate your comments. But I think you are working on a belief that we all must follow the rules without question. Who set the rules? And why do I have to follow them? I'm not a breeder and have no intention of breeding but I won't purchase from a breeder that places this stipulation as a condition to allow me to give them $2k dollars. Do you get how ludicrous that sounds? I'm forking over my money for one or two dogs and I not only have to get their privates chopped, or else, but I also have no say in whether the tail or dewclaws are removed. Both practices are banned in Europe. And, in fact, you cannot enter a poodle in a show if he/she has been docked or had her dewclaws removed. Now how backward is the AKC? The only thing good, with the poodle, is that it hasn't been harmed much. However, just like the Dobie, I find Poodles from France and Germany to be sturdier dogs with broad chests and not very long legs. They are a very different dog. And also, there aren't many reds in Europe because they simply aren't popular. So, I will wait another day or so to see if anyone else chimes in. If not, I have two lists of EU breeders to go through but I will definitely stay on this forum because I have seen a lot of good information. 

I hope you understand that I'm not yelling at you. What you're witnessing is my frustration in getting a dog. I am Jewish and when my son was born I agreed with my wife that he would not be circumcised. I feel that's an old, outdated practice that really isn't very healthy for male babies. Guess what happened as soon as my son came out? He was yanked from his mothers arms where he got just a few shots. Yup, this was many years ago. Then, they were about to take him from the room. I asked the nurse what she was doing? Oh, we're going to circumcise him. "Over my dead body, you will". She looked shocked and then said "Oh, I'm sorry, we do this for all male children so we automatically assume it's what every parent wants". Needless to say, my grown son is still fully intact. I told him if he wanted to chop anything off it would be his choice but, at this stage in his life he's happy with the way he looks. So why should i be ok with a breeder chopping off a part of a tail or removing a finger? Because that's really what they are doing. 

Now do you understand why I'm so passionate about leaving a Poodle intact? A Poodle doesn't need to have his tail hacked or his dewclaw removed. Why is this a tough concept for you, and everyone else to grasp? More importantly, why is it a difficult concept for breeders in the states to grasp? 

Thanks for listening to me vent. :argh:


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

I don't think anyone has an issue with your wanting a natural poodle--it's that you feel "entitled" to a dog with full registration and no spay/neuter agreement.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

I'm envious of my euro friends who get the Zeuterin injection for their males.


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## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

If you are looking for a high quality standard poodle in the US but have eliminated breeders who dock (all AKC conformation breeders), that leaves you with two avenues. You can can either look for UKC conformation breeders (won't dock) or performance breeders (who might not dock and could use any kennel club to register their puppies).

The breeders you linked (presumably all don't dock?) seem to be AKC breeders. Since they obviously don't show in conformation, they should title their dogs in some sort of performance sport. I haven't looked through each individual dog but if their titles aren't list, I'd suggest asking what titles they have. 

If a dog isn't titled in conformation or sport (or works as a service dog) it shouldn't be bred. That's my opinion, anyway.


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

PL, I too would suggest at this point just looking in Europe. I haven't ever been to Europe so I don't know exactly how things are over there, but it sounds like they are definitely more in line with what you want. 

I appreciate good breeders here in the US, and I can see that we have extremely different views on what makes a good breeder. I don't think you will find anything that meets your criteria (fully health tested, full registration with no spay/neuter contract, no mention of spay/neuter on websites, no applications for adoption, etc etc.) I am on the complete opposite end of the spectrum, as I would never be interested in a breeder who did not have a puppy application and want to find out as much as possible about where their puppies will be going, or one who just doles out dogs with no regard to spay/neuter vs show contracts, and who isn't exhibiting their dogs in either conformation or performance. To me, a person who doesn't do all three of these things, plus extensive health testing would be a backyard breeder. I respect your difference in opinion, but obviously I won't be much help in contributing to your search. I wish you luck, and hope that you are able to find what you are looking for over in Europe.


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## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

You want a breeder who doesn't ask too many questions about you, will sell you a pup with no spay/neuter requirement, and will give you full registration no questions asked, plus one who doesn't dock/remove dews? And you want red? Literally everything on your list is going to be hard to find in a responsible breeder in the US. You really may be better off looking into importing, especially since you seem to prefer European dogs in general. 

If you want to buy from a breeder in the US, I would recommend contacting some responsible breeders of reds and spend some time really getting to know them. Then you might be able to get them to leave a pup natural, and they may be more flexible on the spay/neuter requirement. NOLA and FarleysD are responsible red breeders in the US. Maybe approach them about wanting a pup left natural some day and leave off your other requests at first....honestly, I can't see many breeders being too happy with your general view of US breeders. You've basically accused them of hacking tails and being too stupid to understand your viewpoint. I can't see anyone selling you a dog when you approach them like that unless they care more about your cash than the dogs they produce.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

chinchillafuzzy said:


> PL, I too would suggest at this point just looking in Europe. I haven't ever been to Europe so I don't know exactly how things are over there, but it sounds like they are definitely more in line with what you want.
> 
> I appreciate good breeders here in the US, and I can see that we have extremely different views on what makes a good breeder. I don't think you will find anything that meets your criteria (fully health tested, full registration with no spay/neuter contract, no mention of spay/neuter on websites, no applications for adoption, etc etc.) I am on the complete opposite end of the spectrum, as I would never be interested in a breeder who did not have a puppy application and want to find out as much as possible about where their puppies will be going, or one who just doles out dogs with no regard to spay/neuter vs show contracts, and who isn't exhibiting their dogs in either conformation or performance. To me, a person who doesn't do all three of these things, plus extensive health testing would be a backyard breeder. I respect your difference in opinion, but obviously I won't be much help in contributing to your search. I wish you luck, and hope that you are able to find what you are looking for over in Europe.


Of course the problem with this is that the breeder would not be able to tell which puppy's personality would suit a potential purchaser until much too late to leave a dog natural


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

Liz said:


> I'm envious of my euro friends who get the Zeuterin injection for their males.


Last I heard it was available in the U.S.


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## poodal_luvah (Mar 11, 2017)

Verve said:


> Last I heard it was available in the U.S.


Actually, Zeuterin is on hold right now. It was being offered here in the U.S. but supposedly they are reformulating so Zeuterin isn't being offered anywhere.


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## poodal_luvah (Mar 11, 2017)

Mysticrealm said:


> Of course the problem with this is that the breeder would not be able to tell which puppy's personality would suit a potential purchaser until much too late to leave a dog natural


Mysticrealm, that's another thing I don't approve of. How can someone spend a half hour or an hour on the phone with me and then decide what dog is right for me? It's a complete, juggling game as well as a hit or miss. Probably more misses than hits. And if someone can decide what kind of dog would fit with my personality based on an interview is not someone i would want to deal with. That is, unless I'm wearing my foil hat!


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

poodal_luvah said:


> If I'm paying $2k for a dog it sure as heck isn't an adoption.
> 
> And honestly, all of these stiff requirements are indirectly forced on breeders via the HSUS and other humane societies.
> 
> ...


I also find the smarmy language about "adoption" offensive. Call a spade a spade. You are *buying* a puppy, but you also need to appreciate that a puppy isn't a widget. Good breeders care about the puppies they produce, and want them to have the best lives possible. 

The HSUS isn't forcing these practices upon breeders. Again, breeders do these things because breeding is a labor of love. See above about caring about puppies. 

And as I said in an earlier post, it is NOT a fact that dogs must be docked to show in AKC. Period. And again, it is not AKC that sets the rules--it is breed clubs. A breeder who tells you otherwise is showing her ignorance. 

And I *did* grasp from your very first post that you cared passionately about having an undocked dog. I gave you the names of three breeders I respect and feel comfortable recommending who don't dock and who VGL test and raw feed. And MOST reputable breeders today are at the vanguard of PUSHING research on puppy buyers about why they should wait until a dog is mature to spay and neuter (and by extension, would be fine with OSS or vasectomy). In that respect, you're kind of picking a fight that doesn't really exist. But you need to distinguish between leaving a dog intact and your prerogative to breed that dog--those are two very different issues.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Tails must be docked within the first few days, but personality is pretty evident in puppies by the time they're ready to go to their new homes. Both of mine were temperament tested and their results are reflected in the dogs they are today. 

If you choose a good breeder, they will let you select your dog. If you're buying long distance, you'll have to put your trust in them to choose a good match. It can be hit or miss, but if you go with someone with a great reputation and glowing references, you'll probably have a hit


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## poodal_luvah (Mar 11, 2017)

oshagcj914 said:


> If you want to buy from a breeder in the US, I would recommend contacting some responsible breeders of reds and spend some time really getting to know them. Then you might be able to get them to leave a pup natural, and they may be more flexible on the spay/neuter requirement. NOLA and FarleysD are responsible red breeders in the US. Maybe approach them about wanting a pup left natural some day and leave off your other requests at first....honestly, I can't see many breeders being too happy with your general view of US breeders. You've basically accused them of hacking tails and being too stupid to understand your viewpoint. I can't see anyone selling you a dog when you approach them like that unless they care more about your cash than the dogs they produce.



Thanks, but just based on what you have said pretty much tells me, that if everyone feels I'm a bad guy for specifying that I do not want my future dog's bits and pieces hacked and I do not want them to dictate to me when I choose to have my dog or dogs sterilized. This is a flawed, American breeder dictatorship that I do not adhere to. It reminds me of something my dad always said to me. "Don't do as I do, do as I say do". Get it? In other words, just sit there and take it while i, the breeder, do what I want because what you want is irrelevant. 

Like I said, this is a great forum so I think I'll sign off on this post since everyone seems to believe I'm a monster for actually acting like a thinking, human being and not adhering to what every other breeder is doing. 

I will hang around though as I said before. I know people will be able to advise me on poodle cuts, and a few other questions that aren't breed specific. Cheers.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

No one has a problem with you wanting a dog with a tail, dewclaws, and balls. Let me summarize: Find a natural poodle breeder and ask them if you can do an ovary-sparing spay or a vasectomy on your puppy.


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## poodal_luvah (Mar 11, 2017)

zooeysmom said:


> No one has a problem with you wanting a dog with a tail, dewclaws, and balls. Let me summarize: Find a natural poodle breeder and ask them if you can do an ovary-sparing spay or a vasectomy on your puppy.


Zooeysmom, I don't want any breeder to choose when I get an OSS or a vasectomy. And this is the problem I have with a lot of the American breeders I am finding. I feel like I'm living in a dictatorship with every breeder giving me a list of things I might do so that I can be allowed to fork over $2k to them. Can I scream and rip out all of my hair now, or later? Don't any of you get how bloody ridiculous this sounds? Well, you probably wouldn't if you spent any time in Europe where there are no conditions put on a person buying a dog. And it should be the same here. 

Thank you though. I think this thread has helped me to decide to spend the extra money and get a quality Poodle from France or Germany. It's all good though. I have been looking at a couple of breeders in Germany and I do have some good leads. i was just hoping it would be easy to find what I wanted here in the states without jumping through hoops.


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## Khaleesiandthepoms (Feb 25, 2014)

You seems to be kind of upset about stipulations a good breeder may put on their puppies concerning breeding. Not a breeder and my dog came from two AKC champions and a long line of champions and excellent breeding from some of the highest quality lines in the US with some of the lowest stats on genetic illnesses that affect the breed, I did a LOT of research and found also my breeders poodles tended to be very long lived and have great enough temperaments many end up service pets as well as having beautiful structure, I went through applications with several breeders all great breeders, but some were just not so great people and some were fine and I still was rejected in those cases. I took some rejection personally mainly a breeder who was insulted I would color my dog for grooming, she could not bear the idea I would use any dog from her prestigious line for such a 'lowly' activity. Another breeder who just decided I wasn't right I don't know her reasoning and now I don't care I have a great dog from the right breeder.
I was angry but here's the thing, their dogs, their choice and yeah in her case kind of a ridiculous reason but I think you need to keep in mind you are going to be receiving a gift from this breeder, its your job to prove your worth as an owner to them, a good breeder cares about where their dog is going and how their life will be, as a rescuer and groomer of many years I TOTALLY get breeder who require a spay and neuter contract, I hate to break it to you but a breeder likely hears all the time about people who have no intention of breeding their dogs and somehow end up doing it whether through irresponsible keeping or profit and it happens a LOT, a breeder has no reason to trust you'll keep your word on that and that's their entire line's reputation on the line they've spent thousands of dollars and hours and years building, I don't blame breeders for wanting to protect that, your 2k looks pretty small in comparison to their dedication. 

People pay for adopted children too and its still an adoption sure some breeders and people call it a sale but to me if it requires approval of the breeder through a process that weedles you out from the riff raff its more of an adoption TO ME. I don't mean to be harsh but if I was breeding my girl from her lines and knowing how much time and dedication and testing and blood, sweat and tears I'd give to the litter and pups I'd be happy to see someone gone who doesn't even want to fill out an app its no respect for me or what I've done to give someone a great companion and protect the dog. 

Now my dog is NOT spayed and nor did her breeder require it of me though she does in 99.9% of cases she told me spay and neuter w limited registration I said that works for me and she said even if I wanted to wait for her to mature a little before spaying that was fine but I willingly filled out an app, did my references, spoke to her for hours, met with her a few times and guess what? She decided it wasn't necessary and even found me responsible enough to decide what I wanted. I built a trust with this person which I'm sure wouldn't have happened if I had the attitude of well I'm not filling out an app and how dare this breeder question me! Maybe try to be a little more open to seeing that a reputable breeder is a person who cares about their dogs (likely) and get to know them and when you are both a little more comfortable discuss your concerns, or walk away.

Finding a breeder who doesn't dock and dew and is reputable is very possible though look at field/sport breeders of poodles, I believe Desert Reef doesn't upon request.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

I have no problem with a good breeder's demands, honestly. If Americans were more responsible with their animals like owners are in Europe, I would probably feel differently. 

Anyhow, I'm glad you have some good leads with European breeders.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

The reason most European countries do not have spay/neuter stipulations and sell dogs with no contract disallowing breeding is because they can't. It is against the law there. But, as more and more breeders get screwed by buyers promising not to breed but then do, you can bet there will be more and more fighting to have the rules changed. So quick! If you are planning to import, do it soon! Very-Merry in the Czech Republic has gorgeous reds and often has litters. Something else you might want to be aware of when importing is that the same breeders who cannot have a non breeding contract also cannot and most do not stand behind their puppies in the event of illness, infertility, etc.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Something else you need to be aware of when importing is that unless you are importing from a country that the AKC/CKC recognizes and has an agreement process with, the registering process can be rather costly. We imported our blue male Quincy from Iceland. The CKC does not recognize Iceland, so to register him, we either had to champion him, paying considerably more money to enter him as a "listed" dog without a CKC registration number, or we would have had to pay for a qualified judge to come to our home and go over him and evaluate him and deem him a purebred. Both options were costly, and we chose to champion him. It is not cut and dried. The cost to ship is not cheap either. The regulations have changed with regard to importation, so lots of research on your part to be sure to cross you T's and dot your I's before committing to a European breeder, and look at likely spending 2-3 times for the dog by the time you consider the purchase price, importation costs and registration fees.


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## poodal_luvah (Mar 11, 2017)

GOT fan, hmm, not sure how to answer your comment. I'm actually more frustrated that angry at any breeder dictating what I will or will not do. Why, because in the end they are still running a business and if they do not sell, they cannot continue to run their business. So, in all honesty, I really do not care about titles, or AKC because, in the end, it really means nothing to me. What I care about is a quality dog that has been screened and has no genetic issues that have been detected. 

And, let me tell you how I feel about people paying for children. They're stupid, plain and simple. Why? Because we have 500,000 children in foster care and it ain't that hard to adopt. I am doing it right now. And guess how much I have to pay? Zero. It's free to adopt through foster care. And, to top that, my boys will get free medical and dental until they are 21, and they all get a 4 year free ride to a college in the state where they came from. Now children that come from foreign countries do not get these options. So, using the "buy children" argument doesn't really work with me because I explored that avenue and decided we had too many kids rotting away in foster care and I needed to take care of my own backyard first. 

Anyway, I don't have any issue with speaking to breeders on the phone. In fact, that allows me to determine if they are someone I want to deal with. But, this whole screening process that a lot of them put potential buyers through makes me laugh because it simply isn't done in Europe. So, if I have to go to Europe to get a quality pup, that's what I will do. I'd rather pay more to get a pup and not deal with the headache of rejection. As an actor, and a writer, I deal with enough rejection. I don't need to put myself through more rejection with a breeder.


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## Khaleesiandthepoms (Feb 25, 2014)

poodal_luvah said:


> GOT fan, hmm, not sure how to answer your comment. I'm actually more frustrated that angry at any breeder dictating what I will or will not do. Why, because in the end they are still running a business and if they do not sell, they cannot continue to run their business. So, in all honesty, I really do not care about titles, or AKC because, in the end, it really means nothing to me. What I care about is a quality dog that has been screened and has no genetic issues that have been detected.
> 
> And, let me tell you how I feel about people paying for children. They're stupid, plain and simple. Why? Because we have 500,000 children in foster care and it ain't that hard to adopt. I am doing it right now. And guess how much I have to pay? Zero. It's free to adopt through foster care. And, to top that, my boys will get free medical and dental until they are 21, and they all get a 4 year free ride to a college in the state where they came from. Now children that come from foreign countries do not get these options. So, using the "buy children" argument doesn't really work with me because I explored that avenue and decided we had too many kids rotting away in foster care and I needed to take care of my own backyard first.
> 
> Anyway, I don't have any issue with speaking to breeders on the phone. In fact, that allows me to determine if they are someone I want to deal with. But, this whole screening process that a lot of them put potential buyers through makes me laugh because it simply isn't done in Europe. So, if I have to go to Europe to get a quality pup, that's what I will do. I'd rather pay more to get a pup and not deal with the headache of rejection. As an actor, and a writer, I deal with enough rejection. I don't need to put myself through more rejection with a breeder.


So people who pay to adopt children are stupid? Wow. So yes adoption CAN be low cost or cost nothing as you said but often your choices in those free or low cost options are state funded and pretty limited and only accounts for 20% of adoptions, that's only 20% of children who need a family (my sister works in foster care and adoption), some people want newborns or toddlers or children from impoverished countries and these children often cost money, this doesn't make them stupid it makes them unbelievably generous. People as individuals decide what that particular life is worth to them if they have that kind of money and choose that particular child that shows me a little of the* value they place of that life. 
Back to puppies though I've found in my years of working with animals people who freak out over the price of a puppy and cry about a price are often the same people who would rather euthanize a dog than fix a broken leg and drive off in their nice car with very little guilt about it. 

And no, adoption is not always easy, its more often very hard your case is one of a few that was, that's all.

If you think you can get a quality puppy without any ties or "catches" from a good breeder it doesn't really happen through anything but luck or good faith which one would probably would not have if you told a breeder your views on breeders and their contracts. 

If you are thinking of breeding as a business as you say again consider this: a good business ALWAYS has policies and/or contracts to protect: their "product" or work, their business in present and future, themselves and even you the buyer. I'm a business owner and I'm not giving anyone my services without agreement as to what makes me comfortable and them understanding as well what to expect from me. They, like you, can also go somewhere else if they don't like it there are other people who are more lenient but I've found have more problems in their business and more unhappy customers.

Let me also tell you a hard truth: good breeders often have a waiting list or no shortage of interested families, their practices and hard work have earned them that reputation, so you walking away thinking you've affected their business well the reality is it's not likely and they are often happy to see interested buyers who don't fit their practices gone and they often don't even remember particular rejection clients days later. It isn't because they are callous, their lists really tend to be that long sifting through everyone.

Not sure what acting and writing has to do with it (I'm also a professional writer) rejection is part of life, buying a home, a car, applying for credit, applying for a job, etc. and if you don't want the possibility of it you can always hit up puppyfind and find a breeder in minutes who doesn't care where their puppies go and is likely a mill breeder. But you aren't going to find all of those things you want with no ties with a professional quality breeder without an insane amount of luck and a breeder having good faith in you. Good luck if I were you I would try Europe honestly.


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## poodal_luvah (Mar 11, 2017)

Already messaged two breeders in Germany and received an email back from one with loads of information on testing, breeding diversity, photos of the dogs and puppies, costs to import, etc. Contrary to what someone else said, and I knew that information was false, or inaccurate, is that it costs a lot to import a puppy. It really doesn't. I've even been a buddy for two dogs coming from Saudi Arabia to the U.S. Those were Saluki's from a rescue group in that country that require a buddy to travel with them. 

Anyway, thanks. I brought up acting as a comparison. I have been acting for many many years and have encountered successes and misses along with a lot of rejection. All of these conditions breeders set to qualify or disqualify a potential purchase is worse than any acting audition I've ever encountered be it for stage or film. So, while i know there are some good kennels in the U.S. I'd rather acquire a dog from a kennel in the region where they came from and where there is plenty of breed diversity to create healthy puppies and quality dogs. And of course, any legitimate breeder will supply copies of health tests on demand. 

And I didn't fill out 200 pages of information about me and my life. The one that I heard back from asked me where i lived, closest airport, how much time I have for a puppy, who will be responsible for the dog, and a few other questions. He also offered to put me in touch with customers in the states if I wanted to verify that he has quality pups. 

My point is this. It's not that hard to acquire a quality Poodle from Europe and, in all honesty, I'd rather do that just to avoid that painful interview that 90% of Poodle and other breeders put people through.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

poodal_luvah said:


> Already messaged two breeders in Germany and received an email back from one with loads of information on testing, breeding diversity, photos of the dogs and puppies, costs to import, etc. Contrary to what someone else said, and I knew that information was false, or inaccurate, is that it costs a lot to import a puppy. It really doesn't. I've even been a buddy for two dogs coming from Saudi Arabia to the U.S. Those were Saluki's from a rescue group in that country that require a buddy to travel with them.
> 
> Anyway, thanks. I brought up acting as a comparison. I have been acting for many many years and have encountered successes and misses along with a lot of rejection. All of these conditions breeders set to qualify or disqualify a potential purchase is worse than any acting audition I've ever encountered be it for stage or film. So, while i know there are some good kennels in the U.S. I'd rather acquire a dog from a kennel in the region where they came from and where there is plenty of breed diversity to create healthy puppies and quality dogs. And of course, any legitimate breeder will supply copies of health tests on demand.
> 
> ...


That SOMEONE was me, and my info is not false. It is 100% accurate and I know it is because we have imported one dog from Iceland and two from Very-Merry in the Czech Republic. I wish you all the best but am now done talking to you because you do not want to hear it, even when it is coming from someone who has been there and bought the tee shirt.


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## poodal_luvah (Mar 11, 2017)

Perhaps what you consider expensive is different from what I consider expensive. Could this be the reason I question your comments about shipping? 

And for the record, I traveled with two, fully grown Salukis as their buddy Saudi Arabia. I know how much it cost to bring them over to the states because I had to carry all of their paperwork to bring them over here. And it didn't cost as much as it would for a human to fly from the middle east to America.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

It's so nice to hear that you will be able to import a dog without having to compromise your principals. I wish you the best with that venture.

Good luck.

Viking Queen


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## Khaleesiandthepoms (Feb 25, 2014)

I've never known Arreau to be anything but a professional honest breeder and poodle enthusiast so here's hoping you get quality and not scammed at all. Glad it worked out for you


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

poodal_luvah said:


> I'm actually more frustrated that angry at any breeder dictating what I will or will not do. Why, because in the end they are still running a business and if they do not sell, they cannot continue to run their business. So, in all honesty, I really do not care about titles, or AKC because, in the end, it really means nothing to me. What I care about is a quality dog that has been screened and has no genetic issues that have been detected. ....
> 
> Anyway, I don't have any issue with speaking to breeders on the phone. In fact, that allows me to determine if they are someone I want to deal with. But, this whole screening process that a lot of them put potential buyers through makes me laugh because it simply isn't done in Europe. ....


I have not been active on PoodleForum in quite awhile. I am always interesting in breeders so checked this part of the forum out first when I came back today.

I am boggled! My eyebrows are about up at my hairline, and my jaw is dropping. I simply cannot believe what I am hearing here from you.

I am not a breeder, but if I were and had read even one of your posts you would be on my "DO NOT SELL TO" list. Breeders spend years developing their lines, loving their dogs, and wanting them always to go to their perfect forever homes. In fact, breeders are determining if you are someone they want to deal with!

If I were a breeder and if you could not be bothered to answer my questions and agree to stipulations, I would not sell to you one of my precious dogs at even twice the price. Period. 

On the other hand, as a buyer, if a breeder had not wanted to have me fill out applications and quiz me thoroughly, probably even meet me and talk to my vet, I would not have trusted that they cared enough about their dogs to have really top notch ones. That would have been an immediate sign that they were a sub-quality breeder.

I am simply dumbfounded. You are not buying a car or a washing machine that you can simply plunk money down for, you are adopting/buying a wonderful beloved living being that the breeder/owner cares about. They want to see them go to the best home possible. 

Whew, I am done.


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## Beaches (Jan 25, 2014)

You've got a huge chip on your shoulder poodal! You are going to need more than luck as you move forward.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

This is an old thread. I think OP is gone for good.


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## Pudellover (Sep 8, 2014)

Go to Mo Jazz poodles if you want a standard. Health tested and championed parents. I believe she has a couple of pups available now


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