# Is 2 years old a good age for a first breeding?



## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Brown poodles are just called brown 

Why do you want to breed this bitch? What will she be bringing to the breed?


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

What health and temperament testing is done? The wait until 2 years is so the health and temperament testing can be completed.

CHIC, CERF, OFA, PRA, ATTS/CGC (those are temperament). Don't forget complete bloodwork also.

Here's some info: Health Issues in Poodles


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## willows-mum (May 19, 2012)

I think she has a fantastic temperament and coat type and she is very smart, calm, very obedient and quiet, she never barks, only when playing, plus she has a fantastic shape.
I will be keeping one of her pups
as a pet/companion for her and my sister wants a pup possibly aswell. I only plan on breeding her once or twice at the most, Probably just the once though.

But OFC I will be getting her fully tested for health risks and blood work done too, and I will only use a stud with all the relevant testing done prior to meeting him and his breeder and see the paper work from his vet.

She's only 3 and a bit months so far, so this is a long way off and I may have changed my mind by then, for now its just an idea, nothings set in stone. I'm just enjoying my gorgeous girl right now:act-up:


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

You will find the tests are slightly different in the UK, but you still need to think very carefully about breeding. Firstly, is she of a suitable type physically, and with good health and genetic test results, and does she have the right temperament? If you are not proving her by showing or competing, you should plan on getting her evaluated by an experience breeder or show judge. Secondly, what is in her pedigree? Are there issues wth any of her immediate ancestors or their progeny? You may be able to track this to some extent on the poodle databases, but they tend to focus on US poodles, so again having a really experienced poodle breeder as a mentor is best. The Kennel Club Mate Select can help with asssessing the COI of a planned litter, but it is still rather basic, and nothing beats the knowledgeable advice of someone who has lived and breathed poodles for decades. Thirdly, can you guarantee really good homes for all the pups? Gumtree, Preloved, etc are NOT recommended routes! And finally, can you afford it? The fee for a good stud is usually around the expected price of a puppy, and there is no guarantee your bitch will get pregnant, or produce live puppies if she does; health testing fees vary, but you can expect to pay several hundred pounds before even deciding whether to mate her; the herpes vaccination is around another hundred; scan and other health checks during pregnancy about the same; if things go wrong, and a cesarian is required, budget for £500 - £1,500, depending on time of day or night and complexity. You will need to be with your dog 24/7 around the time the pups are due, and if things go wrong (and they can, as I know to my cost) you may need to feed the pups by hand, every 2 hours, day and night, for several weeks more - not easy to combine with working to earn a living! And even then you may lose all the pups, or even worse, lose your dog. Think long and hard - it is not as simple as finding a pretty boy and letting them get on with it!


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## willows-mum (May 19, 2012)

I've been in contact with a stud owner/breeder she's been doing poodle breeding for over 25 years and she said she'll help me with all that is needed for the breeding and give me a choice of all her studs who all have the apropriate testing done. I am currently a stay at home mum who's kids are in full time school starting sept. So if anything goes wrong I have plenty of time to bottle feed the pups and we have the revenue for a c section if needed etc. Like I said, this is just an idea, I don't know what I'll be doing in a year and a half, I may have a full time job by then so will def not be breding her as I won't have the time to dedicate to her being pregnant and whepling etc.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

willows-mum said:


> I've been in contact with a stud owner/breeder she's been doing poodle breeding for over 25 years and she said she'll help me with all that is needed for the breeding and give me a choice of all her studs who all have the apropriate testing done. I am currently a stay at home mum who's kids are in full time school starting sept. So if anything goes wrong I have plenty of time to bottle feed the pups and we have the revenue for a c section if needed etc. Like I said, this is just an idea, I don't know what I'll be doing in a year and a half, I may have a full time job by then so will def not be breding her as I won't have the time to dedicate to her being pregnant and whepling etc.


Other than the fact that you think she has a nice personality and good "shape", why are you interested in breeding? Also, what in particular do you think she will offer in order to improve the breed? Before breeding her, you need to not only ensure that she passes all health testing and has a desirable temperament, but that she is correct in conformation. Kennel blindness is alive and well among good and bad breeders alike, so someone other than you or or breeder need to assess her conformation and how well it matches the breed standard. If she has major faults, I would question breeding her.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

If you have to bottle feed a puppy or have a C-section done, you've damaged the breed. 

So you _think_ you have a nice dog and you're certain that you have time to damage the breed. Great.

You need to do a lot of learning before you decide. Pregnancy takes no extra work. Whelping should last less than 6 hours. Pregnancy and whelping are not the work.

Cleaning blood sprayed on the walls for 3 weeks and obnoxious biting pooping for 8 weeks is the work. Raising a puppy from 2 - 8 weeks is an enormous chore - not to mention a half-dozen of them!


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

Wow! In the world of professional nurses there is a commonly used phrase: "Nurses eat their young". What I am seeing here is a nice case of cannibalism! We all know that not everyone should breed. But when someone asks legitimate questions, it seem appropriate to give the best answers we can. Why? Because among other things, they may decided to breed.. and if they are going to breed, it needs to be done so with the best knowledge foundation that can possible be provided for them.

Tortoise, hate to say it, this answer sounds like something direct from an AR (animal rights activists mouth).





tortoise said:


> If you have to bottle feed a puppy or have a C-section done, you've damaged the breed.
> 
> Really? There isn't a breeder alive (or dead for that matter) who can predict whether or not a puppy will need to be bottlefed or that a bitch will need to have a C-section done. Does that mean that no one should ever breed another bitch again? There are any number of reasons beyond genetics which may contribute to either of these situations. How/when it damages the breed is if it is a consistent thing and if the offspring are allowed to reproduce and contribute genetics to the breed IF it is a genetic issue in the first place. I am guessing and will state so right now.. but I believe the number one cause of C-sections in poodles is uterine inertia from too much calcium supplementation. That has nothing to do with genetics, it has to do with breeder education. Now, if said bitches are oversupplemented with Calcium, require a C section and all female offspring are spayed, a bitch with genetics which could have been contributing to the overall well being of the breed may have just been removed from the breeding program.
> 
> ...


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

*For would-be breeders*

Learn EVERY thing you can about canine structure, function, temperament. That means reading books, videos, whatever resources are available. It may mean attending dog shows or performance events.

Learn about the breed specific traits and characteristics

Learn about the history of the breed (The Poodle History Project website is the best history resource I've found in one place).

Learn about health issues and recommended health testing.

For whelping, there is an excellent yahoo group by Myra Harris Savant (as well as her books) which address just about every issue that could come up with whelping. 

Learn about breeding, canine sexual behavior (if anyone ever comes across the Canine Sexual Behavior VHS tapes by Ian Dunbar.. they are the best I've ever found-- due to lack of interest (!) from breeder's Dr Dunbar did not republish them in DVD format).

Maybe we could all team up and make up a list of great reference materials for breeder's to be??

Just a thought.....


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Yadda...I really do love your posts! Every single time someone comes on this forum discussing breeding, they get rampaged. You are so right, this forum is VERY visible, and all these snarky, know-it-all answers do is ensure the next person will not ask.

It is important to know, breeding is not for the faint of heart. It is a lot of work. BUT it is very rewarding. If you have a nice quality bitch whose testing is good, and have a mentor who has been in the breed 25 years who is going to help you, and will allow you to use a nice quality male who has also been tested with good results, enjoy the experience!

I know of a "quality" breeder who has recently done the most irresponsible breeding I have ever seen in all my days, and do not know too many inexperienced breeders who would have done something this dumb. But this one won't get a slap on the wrist, because of the respect earned. AHEM...something sorely wrong here.


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

Agree with what Yadda said. There are many valid reasons to breed dogs, and we do not know anything about this person other than what they have posted here. This person may turn out to be a wonderful, responsible breeder just starting out. There is not yet enough information to judge.

Only thing I would add (apart from reading as much as you can and talking to other breeders) is that whatever reason you intend to breed your dog for, make sure there is a market for the puppies before you do it. Yes, you want to keep a pup, but litters normally contain more than one pup and you need homes for all the others. Some people breed for pet markets (and specific subsets -- diversity, non-solid colours etc.), some people breed for show markets, other people breed for working markets. Make a blog or website about your dogs to advertise your breeding well in advance so you can gauge how much demand you have before you commit to doing it. Breeding is also a business decision. What is your unique selling point?

Also be aware that there is a chance some puppies may be returned to you if the new owners' circumstances change and they can no longer look after them. It is your responsibility as their breeder to find them suitable new homes in this case.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Since you said your puppy is only 3 months old right now, there is really no way to know for certain at this time if she will develop into a suitable breeding candidate, either structurally, temperamentally, or health wise. I would be prepated to "say no" to breeding if she doesn't turn out the way you think she will... 

But since she is so young you can start training her and grooming her for the show ring. This will be a great start on the path to potentially breeding her down the road.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Or getting her into some kinds of performance events. She does not have to be titled in conformation to be proven worthy of breeding. I'd rather see someone take their own dog into the Rally or Agility ring and do something you can enjoy together. Some folks are not cut out for the intense work show coat creates!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> Or getting her into some kinds of performance events. She does not have to be titled in conformation to be proven worthy of breeding. I'd rather see someone take their own dog into the Rally or Agility ring and do something you can enjoy together. Some folks are not cut out for the intense work show coat creates!


Doesn't hurt to try though, right?  You don't know what you're cut out for till you attempt it. It surely wouldn't be a terrible or shameful idea for the OP to start growing out hair and doing some training for the show ring. Certainly there is no reason to discourage it!


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