# Accidental breeding?



## kayla_baxter (Jul 17, 2015)

A responsible breeder wouldn't allow this to happen. Anyone who can't manage to keep a dog from breeding a bitch during a heat really shouldn't own intact dogs. 


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Well, it shouldn't happen, and if it happened more than once I would be suspicious, but accidents do occur in the best regulated families... If the dogs are health tested, the bitch has fully recovered from her previous litter, and she is given a rest or retired from breeding after back to back litters, I don't think it is a major problem. In the UK the limit is on the age of the bitch at breeding, and the total number of litters she carries - some breeders actually advocating breeding back to back seasons and getting her breeding career over while she is young. Unscrupulous breeders churn out litter after litter, register the maximum with the Kennel Club and the rest with one of the alternative registries...


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Mehpenn said:


> First of all let me say I do not breed poodles and have not had this actual experience. I saw a comment on a fb page that raised a couple questions that I'm unsure of the answer.
> 
> If you breed, breed on a regular cycle, produce a viable litter, and have every intention of skipping the next heat cycle but your male got to your female and bred her... how do you handle that situation?
> 
> Do you proceed as normal? Do you terminate the pregnancy? Do you not register the puppies because you just registered a litter within so many months?


Many reproductive specialists advise breeding back to back heat cycles for a variety of reasons. There wouldn't be any reason not to allow a healthy bitch to go through with her pregnancy and whelp the litter simply because its a back to back pregnancy. And it certainly would make absolutely zero sense to not register the litter.

I also personally feel that the majority of knowledgeable breeders would not terminate the pregnancy even if the accidental breeding was between two closely related dogs. However, there may be some circumstances where they might choose to. All in all, I believe the safest thing for the bitch is to allow her to whelp and to place the offspring as pets.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

kayla_baxter said:


> A responsible breeder wouldn't allow this to happen. Anyone who can't manage to keep a dog from breeding a bitch during a heat really shouldn't own intact dogs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've heard of lots of good breeders admit to having accidents. If you never bred dogs, you would be surprised, as many breeders have been, at what an intact male dog is capable of. 

pr


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Many reproductive specialists advise breeding back to back heat cycles for a variety of reasons. There wouldn't be any reason not to allow a healthy bitch to go through with her pregnancy and whelp the litter simply because its a back to back pregnancy. And it certainly would make absolutely zero sense to not register the litter.
> 
> I also personally feel that the majority of knowledgeable breeders would not terminate the pregnancy even if the accidental breeding was between two closely related dogs. However, there may be some circumstances where they might choose to. All in all, I believe the safest thing for the bitch is to allow her to whelp and to place the offspring as pets.


Thanks for your perspective. Javelin's breeding has been repeated on Luna's next heat cycle in context of other plans and obligations to avoid having puppies around over the summer in 2016. Then there will be a long break for Luna. Paws will be on the ground near the end of this month.


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## Mehpenn (Jan 18, 2010)

We raise German Shepherds and I must admit, I am constantly amazed at what our male dogs will do to get to the girls. Luckily I've never been faced with an accidental litter but that's not to say it could never happen. It's almost like a methodical game from season to season to see who's on their toes, me or the boys. 

The reason for my question is, as I said, I saw a comment on a fb page where a Pomeranian breeder was ripped apart for 1. Being irresponsible enough to allow an accidental mating to occur and 2. Commenting that she would keep the pregnancy and sell the puppies, AKC registered, as she would any other litter. 
Responses to her post included threats of getting authorities involved because she is obviously a byb to allow such to happen, people bashing her personally as an irresponsible person who shouldn't own one dog much less be breeding, people accusing her of allowing it to happen on purpose simply so she could sell the puppies for profit, accusations that welfare services should be involved due to the substantial health risks to her bitch having consecutive litters, folks urging her to see a vet immediately to have the pregnancy terminated... While others were nonchalant about it, commenting that accidents happen all the time and not to worry about it. 

That's a lot to take in. I've always gone by the every other heat motto for my breeding dogs. Some of the comments offered new insight to individuals breeding thoughts and methods.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

It is very easy for people on FB (or any other internet venue, even PF) to rip others to shreds when it can be done relatively anonymously isn't it? I suppose who mentored you in breeding heavily influences decisions like the scenarios you asked about.


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## Mehpenn (Jan 18, 2010)

lily cd re said:


> It is very easy for people on FB (or any other internet venue, even PF) to rip others to shreds when it can be done relatively anonymously isn't it? I suppose who mentored you in breeding heavily influences decisions like the scenarios you asked about.


That is very true. The majority of my knowledge was passed down from my grandfather, who raised hunting beagles. And while my breeds of choice are very different than his, the principle is still the same. 
I've found through the years that some of his methods and ideologies are out-dated or even not the best options. That is where mentors/breeder friends/veterinarians/etc are invaluable. 
I find it fascinating, the differences from one kennel to the next, and am often disappointed at the lack of support from one breeder to another, one dog lover to another, breeder to non breeder, etc.


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## ApricotsRock (Jan 10, 2014)

Umm, exactly HOW determined are the males? Break down doors?


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## Mehpenn (Jan 18, 2010)

We had a bitch in heat, in a crate, in my office, in the house. We had the stud dog outside in a kennel with a 8' tall chain link run, in our barn (stalls converted to kennels). So, in the barn with a 8' fence run, inside a 5' fence in the back yard. 
He chewed through the run fence, scaled the backyard fence, and was in the process of eating the siding off the house at the room she was locked in, when I got home from the grocery store (had been gone less than an hour). 
Now, this is a German Shepherd, much stronger and larger than a Pomeranian or a smaller poodle, but I've seen small dogs at trials chew through crates to get to bitches in season.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

My Ridgeback ate a solid wood door, and chewed his way through a Vari Kennel to breed the poodle bitch in heat inside the kennel. Oh and I forgot to mention he broke his heavy chain to reach the solid door into the garage... 

That accidental breeding we did terminate as the bitch was already scheduled for a spay. It was more risky as she had conceived and there was a greater blood supply to her uterus then normal. But umm Ridgeback x poodles are not my idea of good pets especially since the Ridgeback was not quite right in the head and neither was his mom... .


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Um my husbands service dog was from an accidental breeding. The bitch was in heat, went out of heat and a week later she was in backyard and the husband turned out a male... Her owner watched the male mount her and went screaming out the door, there was no tie and her owner prayed no puppies but well there were 9 in his litter.... Now tell me how accidents don't happen at a responsible breeders house.


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

Mehpenn said:


> We had a bitch in heat, in a crate, in my office, in the house. We had the stud dog outside in a kennel with a 8' tall chain link run, in our barn (stalls converted to kennels). So, in the barn with a 8' fence run, inside a 5' fence in the back yard.
> He chewed through the run fence, scaled the backyard fence, and was in the process of eating the siding off the house at the room she was locked in, when I got home from the grocery store (had been gone less than an hour).
> Now, this is a German Shepherd, much stronger and larger than a Pomeranian or a smaller poodle, but I've seen small dogs at trials chew through crates to get to bitches in season.


Wow! I will say, if this dog breeder was near us, they will be ripped to shreds. I was chastised for not adopting a rescue.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

A tiny Maltese male jumped out of his 3x3 pen and climbed into a bitch's 3x3. I would have not thought that possible. The climbing out is not all that surprising, I guess, but climbing up into the bitch's pen was a pretty amazing feat and not something I would have thought possible. 

pr


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Accidents happen. While it might not be the greatest scenario, unless it was a mixed breeding or a risky line breeding, I'd go with the flow. We are fortunate here to have two diligent adult humans monitoring things, but Trillium, my co-owner has three kids, so we have decided no intact boys in her home, because it can happen so quick.

BTW...most vets do recommend back to back breedings now. The feeling is an empty uterus can be a very dangerous thing. After experiencing pyometra in my intact Whippet bitch, I am rethinking my own way of doing things.


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## aasteapots (Oct 6, 2013)

When I was a teenager we almost lost our sheltie to pyometra. So scary! She ended up never having puppies as they removed her uterus immediately. It was so scary.


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