# Rant ... what is WITH people?!?!



## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

I live steps away from a very large park. It's lovely and one ends up knowing all the neighborhood dogs.

There's a "dog trainer" (and I use that term with reservations) who frequents the park for his one-on-one training sessions. He's loud and opinionated and expansive and French and (of course) of the CM school.

I've seen him a few times over the last couple of weeks, working with a woman and her quite lovely IG, who apparently has some issues with recall (surprise) and fear of other dogs (ditto). I've been passing a few times on our evening play session when they've been working with the dog, and very happy to offer up my stable, friendly poodle as an aide.

So there we are last night, happily playing fetch in the field, mixed in with short fun training bits, when here they come. The IG is nervy and barking, so I put Vasco on a down-stay at my side, which he holds with admirable equanimity (I do really adore this dog). 

The IG is still a bit jumpy, so I take mine off 20 yards or so and we work on heeling patterns for five minutes and some fetches to hand. This gives the IG time to relax, and he comes to say hello, butts are sniffed, everyone is happy. I go back to chucking the tennis ball for Vasco, the IG shows some interest, so I chuck my second tennis ball for him (rule one, always carry a spare).

The dogs are running and chasing and playing with the balls, but a couple of times I think mine might be getting a bit rough, and the IG looks so fragile, so I recall him, hand him a treat, and send him off again, just as a quick interruption.

All the time, annoying French trainer is spouting off to the owner his patented theories for what every interaction means and how great an idea it was of his to bring the dog to the park for 'training'. Note, there is no training going on. There are two dogs playing happily.

The IG is not terribly interested in the ball, so eventually leaves it, and Vasco ends up with two. 

Now, my old Golden could carry two (and three on a good day), but Vasco's mouth is just not big enough for two tennis balls, so I go over to retrieve one. We play the game where I try to pick one up in the chucker, he drops the one he has and grabs the other, I try to pick up the one he dropped, he dives for that one, etc. We giggle at each other. 

Annoying French trainer comes striding over, the very picture of authority, and informs me that my dog has a dominance problem. He will be happy to tell me how to fix this terrible flaw.

Are you freaking kidding me?!?! 

He has just watched my nice friendly happy stable dog do down-stays with distractions, heelwork with distractions, fetches to hand, recalls out of a doggy chase game, and he is telling me my dog has dominance problems and needs training?!?! I despair, I truly do. Who DOES that? Offers up that garbage completely unsolicited, unwanted, and unneeded?

I explained as calmly as I could that no, my dog has no "dominance" issues, he is fully aware that his lack of opposable thumbs means he relies on me for all good things, that he is a happy confident dog, and that if there are any behaviours I don't like, I train the dog that doing something different is more fun. I happen to like the battle-for-the-ball, so I don't train differently. 

I'm quite sure it made no difference, I'm sure he thinks that not only do I have a terrible dominance problem, but delusions as well.


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

Some people are fairly clueless, aren't they? As the owner of an IG, I imagine they would be the breed *least* amenable to CM-type training methods. Mine is pretty much the only one doing Agility in our area (I know there are others elsewhere!  ), and I attribute our accomplishments to the fact that she was trained with all positive, hands-off methods. 

And yeah, what's with the strange and unsolicited advice? Maybe he was hoping to get a new client. You need to get that exuberant poodle of yours into a calm, submissive state! 

--Q


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

*JE-UK:* Sadly, I think that fellow probably chose to be a dog "trainer" because dogs, unlike people, can't answer him back and tell him what a jack*** he is! That poor Iggy! The only "service" that guy provides is lightening the weight of the wallets of a few people, who themselves are as much victims of him as their poor dogs. As an aside, I would _adore_ the privilege of having you as my neighbor, and coming upon you in the park while you're working your dogs. I find so much of value in the advice you have to offer, and your positive training techniques. More times than I can count I have read and relished your posts, and used some of the great techniques you've shared. Glad you're on the forum, glad you're such an amazing advocate for dogs and glad that Iggy at least got to see a real good dog-owner relationship; that maybe as close as the dear thing ever gets to experiencing one.


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## CurlyDog (Aug 20, 2008)

What does "CM school" mean? Thanks!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

CurlyDog said:


> What does "CM school" mean? Thanks!


Cesar Milan.


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## PoodlePowerBC (Feb 25, 2011)

Good for you!! I hate when pushy people told me how to raise my kids and now "explain" where I'm failing my dogs. If I need help ... I'll go to the appropriate site and get help


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## CurlyDog (Aug 20, 2008)

Oh, right! Gotcha!

I work with a guy who gives a lot of unsolicited advice. He is the expert on all things, including those with which he has no experience! Some of these include: raising kids, training dogs, home ownership, marriage..."

Get this: he is 45, never been married, has no kids, never had his own dog, and rents an apartment! It's hilarious!


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

CurlyDog said:


> Get this: he is 45, never been married, has no kids, never had his own dog, and rents an apartment! It's hilarious!


Perfect! It is always the way, isn't it? I didn't think about it, but I'll just bet Mr. Mighty Dog Trainer doesn't have his own dog. I certainly have never seen him out with his own, and we are out a LOT. Not sure I would ever trust a dog trainer without dogs of his/her own.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Quossum said:


> Some people are fairly clueless, aren't they? As the owner of an IG, I imagine they would be the breed *least* amenable to CM-type training methods. Mine is pretty much the only one doing Agility in our area (I know there are others elsewhere!  ), and I attribute our accomplishments to the fact that she was trained with all positive, hands-off methods.


I know, it gave me the willies. 

I love the way they look, but I would be SO paranoid about broken bones. Are they sturdier than they look? Love, love, love watching them run, when they kick it into 10th gear and turn into a blur ... fantastic.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Chagall's mom said:


> *JE-UK:* Sadly, I think that fellow probably chose to be a dog "trainer" because dogs, unlike people, can't answer him back and tell him what a jack*** he is!


I think Vasco suspected :smile:. He was definitely rolling his eyes at the guy. I took him home and told him he'd be appreciate how lucky he is that I didn't have him 15 years ago when I was reading the Monks of New Skete rather than Karen Pryor!


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## papoodles (Jun 27, 2011)

You are soo right, Chagall! Je-UK would be the trainer to emulate IF I trained my dogs at all...
Sadly, they have me all figured out and rule the roost- but happily for me, in the most benign way!


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

LOL - I personally don't get the CM comparison  however this guy seems like a real head case. He clearly has no idea the difference between an intelligent "ball game" versus dominance. I hope this woman can see through this guy. SOON. So many profess to be trainers and they are just clueless. 

I am glad you set him straight!


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

JE-UK said:


> ...
> I love the way they look, but I would be SO paranoid about broken bones. Are they sturdier than they look? ...


In general, I think they are. But then, mine is a little bit on the stockier side, as IG's go. She's still pretty skinny, just not as delicate-looking as some I've seen. She's also smaller--only 13", which means she jumps 12" in Agility, whereas every other IG I've ever seen jumps 16". 

Mine plays pretty rough with the Corgis, but when they start body-slamming each other, she gives a snort of disgust and walks away. Prissy she ain't, but some dogs just go too far! 

--Q


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I cannot stand ignorant people at dog parks. It makes me not want to go, but then Millie just has SO much fun! She is a social butterfly around other dogs - the ideal dog to go to a dog park.

Just last weekend, I took Millie to her favorite dog park that has a pond for swimming and everything. She had a blast. 

But...don't get me started on the three dogs that had prong collars on. :argh: 

Or the lady who admitted that her dog was dog aggressive and she couldn't believe how well he was doing. This dog was playing with Millie when she told me that! Oh, and guess what, her dog was wearing a prong collar! :doh: I actually couldn't help myself and ended up saying something along the lines of, "i might take off his prong collar, it is dangerous as they can get hooked and it's actually against the park rules and the county ordinance." She explained that she only had him on the prong collar because he is dog aggressive and she didn't know when she would need to grab him.:mad2::mad3: I bit my tongue, but I wanted to say, LADY, your dog should NOT be here! The dog park is NOT for socializing dogs with behavior problems. It is for well socialized dogs that get along with other dogs well!

Then there was the lady handing out treats to her three dogs at the park, getting mad when the other dogs wouldn't leave her alone. :doh:

What about the person who let her Golden poop, watched, never picked it up, and then Millie ran through it?:madgrin:


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## apriljean80 (Aug 23, 2010)

Sounds like manners at the dog park are like the manners we encountered this Tuesday at the Discovery Center. Parents just watched as their children ran over and shoved and pushed other kids, including my own, and never once did a thing about it. I'm lucky to have parents and inlaws with enough land to let our Spoo get some off leash running in on their property without worry of any of those situations. His favorite is running behind the four wheeler or following the tractor as my Father In Law takes care of the cows. He thinks he's a farm dog those days


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Olie said:


> LOL - I personally don't get the CM comparison  however this guy seems like a real head case.


Definitely yes on the head case. I assumed he was a CM wannabe, since he spent an inordinate amount of time talking about "the pack" (or maybe "The Pack", since he was giving it the holy intonation :smile and poking the poor IG.


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## AgilityIG (Feb 8, 2009)

JE-UK said:


> D(or maybe "The Pack", since he was giving it the holy intonation :smile


ound:


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## AgilityIG (Feb 8, 2009)

Quossum said:


> In general, I think they are. But then, mine is a little bit on the stockier side, as IG's go. She's still pretty skinny, just not as delicate-looking as some I've seen. She's also smaller--only 13", which means she jumps 12" in Agility, whereas every other IG I've ever seen jumps 16".
> 
> Mine plays pretty rough with the Corgis, but when they start body-slamming each other, she gives a snort of disgust and walks away. Prissy she ain't, but some dogs just go too far!
> 
> --Q


I have had five IGs in my life and they have all been rather sturdy except one that was a tiny thing (14 inches and 8 pounds). My current agility IG is 15 1/2" and about 14 pounds and is not fragile in the least. I have his littermate (she is a breed champion) and she is a bit smaller at 14" and 13 pounds. She jumps 12" and he jumps 16" in AKC agility though he is running in preferred right now. 

They don't like to play with Vinnie at all - just a totally different style of play. He is much more physical and they are into running/chasing, but no touchy feely! :lol:

JE-UK - sounds like you handled the situation perfectly. What a jerk.


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