# Standard, or miniature poodle?



## dogdragoness (Oct 18, 2015)

I am looking at add a poodle to our family in fall / winter 2016, I was set on a miniature poodle, but I have had some poodle people tell me that mini's can be a bit catty with other dogs, and can have more health problems then their standard counterparts, is this true? a standard would be a bit big for us, but I am opening to considering one. Also, the risk of bloat and addison's disease in standard poodles worries me.

Can someone help me? LOL. I am sorry for all the threads and questions, I am new to the poodle breed and while I am using google for much of my research, nothing beats talking in "real time" (so to speak) with real poodle owners, and breeders.


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## Granberry (Nov 17, 2014)

No answers, just a thanks for asking the question. I am getting a poodle at about the same time as you are (after a summer 2016 vacation). I think we are set on a standard, but inasmuch as it will be the biggest dog we have ever had (except for a Rottweiler many years ago), I do find myself thinking about miniatures sometimes.


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## dogdragoness (Oct 18, 2015)

I do know they have a fourth size, Moyen/klein, but it is a european size, there is one breeder here in my state that breeds moyens. I would like to link her site below, if that is ok, please remove and have my apologies if it's not.

TheMoyenPoodle.com - Premium Moyen Poodle breeder


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## Granberry (Nov 17, 2014)

Thank you! I have heard that the phrase "Moyen-Klein" is not an official size, more of an unofficial fun "sales" term, like "teacup" or "Royal". That doesn't mean that it doesn't mean anything, of course...sounds like it means larger miniatures. But I am grateful for the link...always something to read.


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## AngelAviary (Aug 12, 2014)

I have a Standard so can help with that part, and when I was in my 20's my Aunt/Uncle/cousins had a female black Mini so may be able to help there. I never saw a problem with the Mini with other dogs but they really didn't take her many places. She was incredibly social and friendly to everyone I ever saw her meet. 
My Standard is also very social and friendly. She honestly is not "big". Standards look big due to the show cut hairdo people are used to seeing on TV and such. My Stella is 24" tall and weights 43.5 lbs, which Ive been told is a perfect size for a female Standard. She looks big but its really just all hair You may have seen others being bred to be bigger and bigger. This is not the norm. 
As for health issues, I think you may find concerns in each size, you will need to decide what issues concern you the most. Both will be very trainable and willing to do what ever with their families. I also think you would be very happy with either size you choose, Poodles of any size are the best!
Ive attached a few photos so you can try to see Stella's size.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

AS lot depends on what you need, as an example, will you be picking them up a lot and carrying them. I prefer toys, or a small mini, as I can grab and go with them. Also the size of my home works for the smaller. I also dress them, so I assume larger sizes are more expensive. Just my thoughts


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## Naira (Jan 9, 2015)

Figure out what size you would like and then get a well bred one of that size. When you bring that puppy home, make every effort to reinforce good behavior. 

I admit to not having met many standards, but the ones I have met have had beautiful temperaments. I think toys and minis get the bad reputation of snappiness and bad behavior because they are cheaper for backyard breeders to own and they can still sell them for high prices and basically mass produce them... (Even though standards have much larger litters, it requires less space to house toys and IMO they are more marketable to the average dog owner)...also it's a lot easier to reinforce bad behavior in small dogs...you can do it without thinking. I know I did.

So if I were you I'd get a well bred mini and keep up with the training!


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

The Miniature up the block from me has a superb temperament. However, like Naira said, she is from a responsible, thoughtful breeder who doesn't just throw a couple Mpoos together without thought.

I think you'd do fine with an Mpoo if you seek out reputable, responsible breeders who often will be members of their regional clubs and exhibit. See the puppy buying sticky thread here in the Poodle Talk forum. Go to shows and watch and talk with breeders and handlers, giving yourself plenty of time to find a breeder whom you'll want to continue a relationship with, and then read Ian Dunbar's Before and After You Get Your Puppy books to learn about socializing a puppy, then get out and have fun with puppy! To me that means *long* before all vaccinations are done .

For the record, my Tpoo came to me as an adult, but my last dog came as a puppy in the way I described above, and she grew thanks to genetics and socialization into a fabulously well socialized bombproof dog. Who was also a Toy breed, by the way!


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Miniatures have it all over SPOO's for portability, travel (ANY pet friendly hotel/aircraft cabins) and ease of bathing at home. I had all that with my previous terriers, but finally had a great yard for a bigger dog and chose a Standard. Always wanted one! The great thing about Poodles is that you can get all of the same, wonderful qualities of the breed in three sizes. They are all smaller and smarter than Rottweilers


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

dogdragoness said:


> I am looking at add a poodle to our family in fall / winter 2016, I was set on a miniature poodle, but I have had some poodle people tell me that mini's can be a bit catty with other dogs, and can have more health problems then their standard counterparts, is this true?


:confused3: Nah, not true at all! Well bred, well socialized, well trained poodles should be able to coexist peaceably with others, canine and human alike. Miniatures in general are a healthy variety. If you deal with a reputable breeder they should be able to inform you about the temperament of the dogs they produce. Nature and nurture combine to make a poodle. There are many fabulous poodles across the varieties. Our breed club is a good source for reliable information. Home - Poodle Club of America You can learn about the three varieties (standard, miniature and toy), their respective health concerns, conformation, temperaments and get assistance in finding a breeder or Poodle Rescue Group via PCA. Good luck with your poodle search! :clover:


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

If you like the idea of a standard, but don't want a big dog you can still have a standard.

My girl Iris is a smallish standard, about 20" at the shoulder and 35-37 lbs. tall, but not BIG. My previous dog was about 70 lbs and when she got old and ill I could not lift her to get in the car for the vet, so size on Iris was important.

I did my research, found a GREAT breeder who had smaller standards and I have been so happy. Both with her personality and size. I am a mid 60's senior and a big, heavy dog would not work for me. I can easily lift and move Iris and she is compact enough to travel well and be accepted everywhere we go.

She came to me at 9 weeks, fairly well socialized, but the very next day we started outings to Home Depot, Lowes, and lots of local stores who are dog friendly. There isn't a person she meets who is a stranger. If I was worried about her picking up diseases before her vaccinations were complete she just rode in the shopping cart to keep her off the ground. Once vaccines were complete she just went everywhere on her own 4 legs. As a result, Iris is very well socialized. She is now 13 yrs old and still loves a good meet and greet while we are out and about. 

I am sure what ever the size you choose you will lov your poodle as miuch as I love Iris. Here is my girl.


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## Jasper Rules (Jul 12, 2015)

As long as you go with a reputable breeder who health tests their dogs and cares about temperament, both sizes of poodle can be great dogs. We got a mini because we needed the portability/travel factor. Also, as Chagall's Mom said, mini's (who are properly socialized) are usually great with other dogs.


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## Luce (Mar 4, 2013)

Luce is a mpoo and has a great temperament! She is the product of an "oops" breeding my neighbor had - she had male and female. I had her in training class the day after I got her and took a couple more classes after that. She is very friendly with people and other dogs, doesn't yap, not catty - I just adopted a large tpoo 5 months ago and they get along very well.

We go to the dog park and both dogs love it and play with the new friends they meet.

I like the size of the mini - portable, I take her just about wherever I can, doesn't eat much, smaller amounts of waste to pick up, smaller toys/accessories which cost less, grooming cost is less by a pro and less time to do it yourself. Very few people are afraid or intimidated by her size.

I would go to a reputable breeder!!!!!! I love Luce and wouldn't give her up for anything, but, she is a product of poor breeding and has the hips or lack of now to prove it. She dislocated her left hip at 14 months old, had FHO surgery (removed the "ball" part of the ball and socket), needed a 2nd surgery on that same hip 3 months later, and on her 2nd birthday dislocated her right hip and had the same surgery!! That came out to $5000 in less then a year - a well bread poodle costs much less plus you don't have the stress and heartache that goes along with it.

I sent you a PM


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Lily is a spoo that isn't overly big either. She is 22 3/4 at the withers and just over 36 pounds. I can pick her up easily.

If you find a reputable spoo breeder who shows you will find that generally their dogs are not gigantic. Big, big dogs are not what judges put up, so that isn't what they breed for.

A mini can end up being oversized or on the small side. I know three mpoos that are either very tall or weigh about what Lily does. My mom's mpoo is just over height from the cut off between toys and minis and doesn't even weigh 10 pounds.


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## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

while my spoo isn't done growing yet, I think the weight and size he is now (about 32 pounds, and 20 inches) would be a very nice size for an adult dog. Portable, but still sturdy, and that would technically be a standard sized poodle

I second Catherine's statement that breeders who show will probably have smaller standards, and also that out-of-size miniatures are beautiful (check out Chagall for what I think is a perfect example!). Temperament wise, all those I've met seem similar, but since people tend to let smaller dogs get away with more than they would let big dogs get away with, minis might get a reputation for being more difficult? just my thoughts!

I've not heard anything about the breeder you linked to, but saw a few red flags. There's no mention of health testing on the parents (but of course, they might do extensive testing and not list it on the site), they don't seem to show their dogs or do performance sports, they use incorrect color terms, and several of their apricots have liver noses, which to my knowledge is not breed standard (of course I have a parti poodle who's not breed standard so that's not nearly as important as health testing and doing some sort of performance/showing as proof that these dogs have something to pass on to their offspring).


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## dogdragoness (Oct 18, 2015)

Thank you all for all the replies! I live in a small apartment, about 400 sf, and the only reason I am looking at a mini is because I am concerned about how a standard will fit into our small apartment with two other people and two other dogs lol. But if I can make it work I would prefer a standard, mostly because my aussie although small (18 1/2 " and about 30 lbs) he plays very rough and has to be separated from my husband's dog because he plays too rough for her, and I am afraid a mini will have the same problem.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I have an in-size miniature. I initially was looking for an oversized miniature or what is called moyen in the US market, but it was limiting the number of breeders I had to select from. I was able to get a puppy but it was not the right color or the litter was born at the wrong time. I was looking for a spring male puppy. So once I decided that an in-size miniature was ok with me, that opened the possibilities tremendously and I picked Dakota from a performance breeder in Minnesota.

Now I am in my mid-60s with neck and shoulder problems, and when I pick up my 15 lb mini, I think THANK GOD! that I didn't get a bigger dog. People my age don't necessarily have my issues so a 30-40 lb dog would be just fine. My PWD Neeka is 38 lbs and I cannot pick her up.

Tiny Poodles in New York City needs a small toy because she is often transporting them around town. 

So you need to decide what size works for you. Then look for a breeder that does genetic testing and has laid back dogs. I would stay away from performance breeders because those dogs--either minis or standards--will be more driven and more likely to a handful to raise, especially with other dogs.

Dakota has just been neutered and is almost 10 months. He settles quite nicely, follows me around the house, and tells the other dogs that all toys are his and is willing to jump on their backs to prove it (he is smaller than my other 2 dogs). Since his breeder does breed for agility, Dakota is faster than a bullet, can leap small couches, do a back flip off the deck and come down running. He is not for the faint of heart.

But he licks my ears and loves to meet people and is very brave (unless a dog barks at him).

So think about how big of a dog you want, then find a good breeder.

*ETA *- Just read your post before mine. My mini could take your Aussie on and play as rough as he likes. I take it back, find a performance mini breeder. May I recommend Safrannes Miniature Poodles in Minnesota where I got Dakota. Life will definitely not be boring with a dog like Dakota.

Here are a few pictures of Dakota when he was smaller taking on Neeka (38 lbs). I actually end up separating Neeka and Dakota sometimes because Dakota plays too rough for her.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

In your small space, I would _definitely_ recommend a Mini over a Standard. Minis are probably, if anything, healthier than Standards and they are no more likely to have behavioral problems. Honestly, I've met more Spoos with behavioral problems, than Minis. Spoos take up a LOT of space and need room to run and play.


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## dogdragoness (Oct 18, 2015)

We have a lot of space outside, we work on a 200 acre ranch with tons of room for the dlgs to run and play, it's just inside where there isn't much room lol.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Well now that I know you have lots of out door space I get it. I was going to ask why you wanted to try to squeeze another dog into your tiny apartment!

I don't like the liver colored noses either coldbrew, but I did see somewhere mention of health testing, just not a listing of the results for the breeding dogs.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

dogdragoness said:


> We have a lot of space outside, we work on a 200 acre ranch with tons of room for the dlgs to run and play, it's just inside where there isn't much room lol.


Oh, nice! Perfect for any size dog then


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## dogdragoness (Oct 18, 2015)

I would like to have a black, or one of the other dark colors, because with the Texas black dirt, or at my parents ranch (which is a 2000 sf house with 70 acres and a acre fenced yard, I visit there very often as well ), which is red sand, a white poodle would be very hard to keep clean lol. 

My apt sounds small but it does have an open floor plan so it doesn't seem as small as it sounds. I just want everyone to be happy


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Just to give you a better idea of the energy level of a performance miniature, here is the url to Safranne Miniature Poodles. She does a good job of supplying videos and pictures of her dogs in action. Some of her dogs also tend to breed oversized. 

Dakota would LOVE to have a bigger yard than we have so that he doesn't have to run in circles so much. Dakota is a blue poodle, meaning that he will end up a dark gray. So he will not show dirt very much but will be easier to photo than a black.

Safranne Poodles, Specializing in Performance Miniature Poodles, Winona, MN


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## dogdragoness (Oct 18, 2015)

I would love a dog from that breeder! A dog like that would be perfect! But she is very far from me, I have never bought out of state before, how does that work?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

dogdragoness said:


> I would love a dog from that breeder! A dog like that would be perfect! But she is very far from me, I have never bought out of state before, how does that work?


If you see a breeder you like, you may be able to arrange to have a puppy shipped to you. This could work if you know someone close enough to visit on your behalf. Alternatively sometimes contacting a breeder you like who is far afield may lead you to a very similar breeder close to you.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

*Safranne Miniature Poodles*

I picked up Dakota from the breeder and thought everything looked fine there. I had a choice between a silver and a blue, and when I picked Dakota, Estelle, the breeder, said that she would be shipping Teddy the silver to a family in Florida. So she is used to flying the puppies to areas outside of Minnesota.

I think with shipping, it is either best to fly out and get the puppy yourself, or have the puppy shipped to you when the weather is mild--neither too hot or too cold--else the airline might not allow the dog to be shipped. 

If you email Estelle, she is very good about answering all your questions, plus if you are on the list for a puppy, she sends you these really cool videos and pictures each week after they are born. She keeps the puppies until 10 weeks when she has them evaluated and then the final choice of who gets which puppy is made. Sometimes the tails and dew claws are left intact.

You may end up finding a breeder just down the road from you in Texas, but what is nice about considering breeders far away is that you are more likely to get the color you want and the puppy available at the time you are ready for it. Otherwise, you just have less breeders to choose from. I have gotten a dog flown into O'Hare Airport from Seattle, WA and it went just fine. We drove to pick up the others, but sometimes it was a very long day trip or a 2-day trip. So you have more options than you realize if you look everywhere, not just where you live.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

there are several well-known breeders in texas. try poodlesonline.com, click on texas and you will find the names of several mini and standard breeders. these are not the only breeders in texas, of course, just those who chose sign up through this website, which requires breeders to health test as part of the sign-up process.


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## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

lily cd re said:


> I did see somewhere mention of health testing, just not a listing of the results for the breeding dogs.


Quite right - after doing some more looking around the website they do have test results for their dogs available upon request. That's always a good sign. I also see that they have a few pictures of black puppies despite being mostly white/apricot, so they might have the darker puppies you'd be wanting for cleanliness' sake too, though Minipoo is right in saying that by looking farther away you'll have many more options. I made an 8 hour round-trip for Jasper and plenty of breeders ship!


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

With all the land your future Poodle will have, it's a shame not to consider a Standard. My big boy Buck is 56 lbs. He looks imposing and when he barks there is something amiss. I like that about the larger size. I do agree about color! On some of our rainy days, I've wished Buck was brown


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

My breeder is Nancy Wilson, Bar None Poodles near Corpus. All health testing, AKC Breeder of Merit. Great reputation and resource.


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