# Struggling with 6 month spoo puppy...I'm new too!



## AnnD (Jul 5, 2017)

Hello!
I joined this forum to get advice about my spoo puppy! I'm sorry this is going to be long.
He's a 6 month old (on Saturday) chocolate standard poodle. I got him when he was 12 weeks old from a breeder. Right when I got him I noticed he was very nervous around other people (wouldn't let people pet him or even near him) and would back away and bark, and tried to chase cars and would lunge and bark at people walking by. As time went on I noticed more and more reactivity.

At this point he already weighs 50 pounds and is very reactive to...basically everything. People walking/running by/ talking across the street, dogs walking across the street, bikes close or across the street, cars. He will lunge and bark like a maniac. No one can come in our house without him barking at them until they leave and I cannot take him anywhere new without him barking and lunging at everything and everyone.He's super strong and its exhausting for me and I am always worried about the safety of other people.

When I got him I wanted to make sure I got a calm, even tempered puppy as I have chronic illness and have fatigue AND this is my first puppy. The breeder I got him from assured me that he was very calm and laid back before I got him. When I've talked to her about the issues and how it is a temperament issue, she says its a training issue (even though he was like this right from the start AND I've been doing counterconditioning from the start). Also, I found out later that she had let him go to another family at 7 weeks and then he was returned to her then given to me later at 12 weeks and was the last puppy. When I picked him up his mother was with him and she seemed like a pretty nervous dog/barked a lot.

Training I've done: He did puppy kindergarden after completing his shots. He's smart and great at commands. Then we moved on to intermediate...did well too. BUT he's sooo reactive. I had a behaviorist analyze him and she said he is fear based reactivity. We are working with a private trainer on LAT and desensitization. It is helping somewhat, but not majorly. I train him at least every other day for these issues. I noticed his reactivity to start and have been working on desensitization from the beginning with treats. 

At this point I've had him for 3.5 months and it feels like its been forever. This has been highly stressful for me and I have been so disappointed that his temperament is so fearful/anxious when I tried to make sure not to get that. I originally wanted him to be my service dog prospect but there is a pretty slim chance of that happening. 

I'm basically at my wits end with him. It's so heartbreaking, but I just don't know if this is sustainable for me (or him). I don't have a lot of money to keep doing private training and I am flat out running out of energy and worried I'm going to get hurt. Like I said, this is my first puppy, and I feel completely unequipped to deal with it. I previously talked to the breeder about returning him or re-homing him because I want what is best for him, and I just wonder if living in a busy city in an apartment is too much for him (I do take him to parks and to exercise often) or if someone with more energy and training experience could work with him better. I'm still debating if this is a better choice for both of us. I am honestly leaning towards re-homing him or returning him to the breeder, but my main concern with re-homing him is that he will end up in the shelter because of his issues.

Anyways, if you got through all this, kudos to you. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with different training ideas, has re-homed a puppy, or has any other thoughts. Please do not judge me too harshly....like I said, this has been really exhausting and emotional and I just am absolutely at the end of my rope.

Thank you in advance!


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

It may be best to rehome him for both of you. I think a toy poodle would have been much better a choice, or a mini. I am 72 and pretty healthy, but could not handle a large dog that required a lot of exercise, or so excited.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

I'm sorry you're having so much trouble. It does sound like you're doing all the right things, and he just might not be a good fit. If you're worried that the breeder will drop him at a shelter (and I wouldn't trust this breeder either given how they've misrepresented things), have you considered trying to rehome him yourself? 

I would recommend reaching out to some foster rescues to see if they can help. Here's a list of the California Poodle Clubs, who might be able to recommend someone: https://www.poodleclubofamerica.org/all-about-poodles/find-a-poodle/california/poodle-rescue

Or you can try this facebook group I just found: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1395093517406979/

I moved to LA from the San Francisco area last year, and I know that NorCal Poodle Rescue is excellent. They're very picky about who can adopt their dogs and typically have a waiting list for young standard poodles. Maybe if you reach out to them, then they'll be able to recommend someone down here if they can't help: NorCal Poodle Rescue


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I am sorry you and your pup are having such a rough go of it. It sounds like things may have happened at that first home that weren't so good. 

I think you have been doing the right kinds of things to help your pup to learn that not everything in the world is scary and needs to be barked at. It is great that you understand how counter conditioning and LAT work. You also did a great thing to get a behaviorist for a consult. I also understand how challenging all of this is and get it as to why you are considering returning/re-homing him. I hope though that you will hang in there and keep trying. I think you can make good things happen with this pup if you are very patient and persistent.

Here are a couple of thoughts I have for your situation:

1. In my own puppy raising I found Lily to be a very difficult and challenging dog until I realized that I was part of the problem since I almost always had dread in my head and heart about what she was going to do. When I figured out how to be really honest with myself and her such that I was really calm on the inside and not just trying to act that way on the outside she relaxed almost immediately. It became much easier to make all kinds of progress with her once that happened. Additionally, I am certain that my self awareness about my role in clear communication to dogs underlies what made Javelin a very easy puppy to raise. Find your inner peace!

2. I don't think it hugely matters as to why the first family returned the pup to the breeder, but I would ask if she is aware of any specific event(s) that may have triggered problems. If there is something huge there it might help you have a better understanding of your pup and give you data on which to base your ultimate decision.

3. You don't need to pay a trainer. Train your pup yourself. All of this makes a deeper more grounded relationship between you and your dog. I do work with people in dog training all the time, currently mostly at my obedience club, but also occasionally private owners at their homes. The people who have the greatest success are the people who really do their homework in between our sessions. It is always very obvious when people don't do much with their dog in between classes or private sessions.

4. Remember that undoing behaviors that are problematic takes a lot more work than starting out with the training of the right things. It will take special patience and perhaps a long time to work through this, but this boy is a poodle and he should pull it together for you if you can give it a chance based on your needs and circumstances.

I wish you the best possible outcomes for both of you.


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## Beautiful Blue (Apr 24, 2017)

I may be in the minority, but for a person "with chronic illness and fatigue" !!! this is not a good fit.

Conscientiously try to find other arrangements for him. Many if not most breeders make a point of their willingness to take back one of their puppies for whatever reason and prefer that you do that to other alternatives.

It could be he should have stayed with mom and the litter for more that 7 weeks, it could be the first go 'round of owner, it could be inherited tendencies and temperament - 

Your health and living conditions are not what this young guy needs, and he is not what you need.

imo.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Beautiful Blue I tend to agree with you, re-homing would be best do the the circumstances with health problems mainly. I can understand it


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I agree with those who say you should rehome him. Someone with experience, time and energy to exercise him and train him may well be able to raise him into a happy, well mannered dog, but he really does not sound the right dog for you or for your needs. I don't think that rehoming a dog who is not happy in the kind of home you can provide, but may thrive in another environment, is irresponsible - on the contrary, I think it is the most responsible thing that you can do. The key is to work with a really reputable poodle rescue that will fully vet prospective homes and offer support and back up both to you and to the new owner. I am sorry that what should be a happy time with your first puppy has turned into such an anxious experience.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I absolutely agree with those who think re-homing is the best option under the circumstances. From your description, the lunging and over reacting...this does not sound to me like a mere training issue but that this puppy was very inadequately socialized during the first 3 or 4 months or so of life...and/or has a poor temperament to begin with. I think someone could work with him and make him better and happier. BUT for you, no. Not if you have health issues where by you need a service dog.

If this breeder did not tell you right off that this pup was returned to her already, then there's something wrong right there. Did this breeder come recommended? If the dogs mother was also nervous, it sounds like her lines may be less than stellar in the temperament department. I'd be extra careful where you go if you do decide on another go at this. I also think a toy or mini might be a better option for you. Or even a less energetic breed might be an option. (?) 

It has to be very disappointing and heart breaking for you. But sometimes we just have to try and be pragmatic and do what's best for the dog as well as for ourselves. Struggling like you are is no way to live...not for you or the dog. I'm very sorry you're having to deal with all this.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

AnnD,

I'm going to let you know as someone with a disability, I get it. There's only so much energy. You've done incredible things to try and help this dog, and you can be proud of yourself. 

Having your first puppy is challenging, but having your first puppy have serious reactivity issues is a lot to handle. Add to it chronic illness and I can only imagine how stressed you are feeling. It's okay to admit you are in over your head. I think rehoming this dog to an experienced handler who knows how to help would be a kindness for both of you.


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## AnnD (Jul 5, 2017)

Thank you all for your information!

Yes, I am guessing that something did happen in his first home, or it is just simply from his lines. I worked hard at trying to socialize him when I first got him (he was 12 weeks by then) but he was already reactive at that point and extremely nervous that it made socialization extremely hard, although I still tried really hard! I pretty much started LAT and counter conditioning right away with him in new environments, but it's just been an uphill battle.

I do try to take him out to play fetch at parks and at my parent's house nearby and get enough exercise every day. The bigger issue just seems to be that he can't ever catch a break where we live from all the noise, motions etc. that set him off. There are just so many cars and people around and walking by that he is just constantly on high alert. 

It seems like most people are in agreement that it would be best to re-home him. I am in agreement with you, it just tears me up inside. I have done so much for him, and I have really worked with him and tried to stay positive and keep going. It's hard not to feel like I'm failing him, even though I'm trying so hard to work with him. At this point though, the massive reactivity is just starting to take a toll on me and is just way too stressful AND I think there is a home better suited for him. 

Thank you all for your help...do you have any tips for re-homing? I saw the links posted about the rescue groups.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

The rescue group that I have dealt with will provide help and advice if you want to rehome him yourself, or they will take him and place him in a foster home while they look for a home for him (that's assuming that they have a foster home available when you need it). I think that they actually prefer to take the dog into a foster home. That way they can do their own evaluation of him and they have control over the rehoming process. Of course, if you give him up to a rescue group, you lose control. But if you have a good rescue group, that might be the best thing for the dog and for you.

I am a big believer in the role that genetics play, especially in such a young dog. I have known poodles who came from really bad breeders/homes and who are/were just lovely calm confident dogs. And I knew one very high energy poodle who came from a good breeder (an agility breeder) and went to a good home. But the guy had to be rehomed because he was just over the top high-energy. No amount of training ever would have made him suitable for a family that was unable to provide him with 3 hours of vigorous exercise a day. From your description, I am very doubtful that additional training is the answer.

It really sounds like you are doing everything right. I agree that rehoming is the right way to go. The first step is to contact poodle rescue and discuss the situation with them. Since lisagirl strongly recommends NorCal Poodle Rescue, I'd start by calling them.

One final word of advice: Take care of yourself. You are in a very difficult situation. You life is more important than that of any dog. Do what is best for YOU.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Sometimes doing the hardest thing is the best for all. Re homing is hard but it will give you both a fresh start. You are doing the right thing for you and the dog.

The right poodle is out there for you and it will help to heal your heart. Perhaps people here can suggest breeders for you to contact to find a poodle with a personality to fit your needs.


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## Beautiful Blue (Apr 24, 2017)

And let me speak up as the person to whom a dog was re-homed.

I don't believe Rio has ever been happier, more exercised, stimulated, and socialized in his life. More loved? No....I know the previous owner loved him very much.

Just a much much better fit for a large male standard poodle's requirements. 
Do your due diligence, and then re-home or relinquish with a clear conscience and a light heart.


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## AnnD (Jul 5, 2017)

Once again thank you all for being so kind with me. It's so hard not to be hard on myself in the situation, but I do think it is the best for me and for him. Thanks again!
I am potentially interested in getting another dog (at a later date) and am hesitant now to get a poodle, even though I loved a lot of things about my guy now. I'm guessing from everything I researched and read, that is he not so much in the norm of poodle behavior? Aside from being reactive he is generally NOT very friendly. I researched what breed to get beforehand and it seemed like a poodle would be a good fit. In some ways I think he was. I loved training him and that he was so smart and I do take him out to get exercise. So I guess I'm wondering if maybe just not the right dog for me? I did consider a mini before, as suggested earlier, but on another forum people suggested a standard not a mini because they said standards were generally more steady and less hyper. I don't know though....maybe a poodle just wasn't a good breed choice though? If you have other breed suggestions, I'm open to those as well. 
Any thoughts are welcome!


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

In general, I would say that poodles are very active for their size, and it has as much to do with mental energy as physical energy, if that makes sense. If you are looking for an "old soul" temperament, you may get it, but very staid, laid-back poodles are in the minority, IMO. 

That said, it sounds like you got a poorly bred, poorly socialized puppy. In addition, this pup sounds like a poor fit for what you were looking for. There is a good FB group for private rehomes (Standard Poodle Rescues and Rehomes) if you feel up for that. Or you can be in touch with Poodle Club of Southern California. PM me if you need contact info for their rescue contact.


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## AnnD (Jul 5, 2017)

Okay, I'm actually in the Poodle Rescue group on FB...do you think this is a safe option? It seems like there are a lot of good people on there! If I do decide to do this myself, what sort of questions should I be asking so that I know he's going to a good home? I want them to keep him and not have him keep skipping around homes...he's a lot to handle and I want to make sure they can handle him!


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

I fostered a poodle 5 years ago and placed her myself. It wasn't as easy as I thought it would be, but it all worked out perfectly in the end. You can read about it here: http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/17381-spoo-needs-new-home-philadelphia-area.html

I also helped place a couple of other poodles, but in those cases I did not have primary responsibility for the dog that needed a new home.

A few ideas:

1. I assume that your puppy has not yet been neutered? This could be a problem because unscrupulous puppy-millers might see some economic value in having a breeding dog, especially if they can get him cheap. They could then pretend to be looking for a family pet. So my advice would be to have the puppy neutered now. In the case of the poodle I fostered, the local poodle rescue group actually volunteered to pay for a spay! They had money from donations and they did not want to see an amateur (me) placing a poodle that had not been neutered. Not sure if your local poodle rescue would pay for that, but even if they won't, I would strongly urge you to get your puppy neutered before placing him. Then maybe you could ask his new owner to reimburse you for the operation.

2. You must be absolutely honest with any potential adopter. It sounds like your puppy has some serious issues, and you should be sure that anyone who is interested fully understands.

3. Get vet and groomer references. And call them. Consider first time dog owners (who cannot provide vet and groomer references) only if you cannot find someone who has previously owned a poodle.

4. Try to find someone who is local so that you can visit their home. I advertised in a local neighborhood newspaper. It turned out that most of the people who replied were people who either I knew, or I knew someone who knew them or knew someone who worked where they worked. It is much easier to check out someone who lives in your neighborhood. You might want to put signs up in any local dog parks.

5. Ask if they have had a dog before, where the dog will sleep, what kind of training they plan to do (you want positive reinforcement training), is someone home during the day, how long will the puppy be left alone, do they have a fenced yard, do they own their own home (if not, are dogs allowed under the lease). 

6. I would definitely be in touch with your local poodle rescue. They are volunteers who are passionate about helping poodles find new homes, good homes. You certainly have every right to manage the process yourself if that is what you want to do. But I do think that the poodle rescue people could offer some good ideas and guidance.

Best of luck to you.


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