# Sticky  Puppy reality



## twyla

fjm you posted what's been on my mind. After my first tpoo puppy Baby I never wanted another puppy ever again she was so difficult to train, she shrieked in the crate, she ate and chewed everything, she even gave herself food poisoning once, she was a hard puppy so much so that my next three poodles were all adults. But the flip side with adult dogs,all mine were adopted middle age 6 ,7 and 8, is sadly they didn't live nearly as long as I wanted them to ( do still have my Flower adopted at 6). 

I had forgotten some of this when I got Beatrice, I was devastated over the sudden freak loss of 8 year old Baby, but by this time I knew the crate had to be my friend. Trying to get the silly pup to understand what I wanted, I was frustrated with leash walking and her yapping a lot. 

What got me through was the thought of the dog she could be and break down my training to address what was most important lessons, safety was first.

Remaining calm

Being able to crate or gate off Bea in a safe place while I took beaks away from her. 

Realizing that sometimes she would have no idea what I wanted from her, and that it all would take time.

And you would think I would be seasoned after two puppies, nope third puppy Pia had a whole other set of issues that had to be dealt with.

Nope Puppies are hard to raise


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## Shellie

fjm said:


> Were there times you thought "OMG, what have I done?!" And what helped you make it through?


When Maisy started doing zoomies around the living room for the first time! I grew up with a small poodle, so the sight of a big one zooming around my newly-renovated house got me pretty wide-eyed and nervous :afraid: What got me through was remembering all of the amazing moments I had with my heart dog, Missie, and knowing those same moments were just around the corner for me and my new dog, Maisy :love2:


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## katbrat

Lexi wasn't a hard puppy, or a puppy that pitched a fit in her crate, but she was a puppy.  A very busy puppy, so while we had no "on my goodness moment's" she kept us on our toes! Ate her crate pad twice, would carry her leash in her mouth on walks, which I thought was so adorable until I realized that she had chewed it up in the process. Mouthed anything and everything, rubber mulch was like puppy bubble gum, chewed a hole the size of a half dollar in my antique couch when she figured out how to get down the stairs herself(before that, it was "oh how cute!!!! She has figured out stairs!")and dh and ds didn't catch her first. Used to jump on all the cushions for said antique furniture, both chairs as well and push them off and then hop all over them. Used to hide under and in stuff while she was little and we searched high and low, calling her name as she stayed put. She loved her crate and we would cover the three sides to help her sleep. Realized that didn't work when she pulled the sheet in her crate and crewed holes in it. Left the window open in the bedroom for a nice cool breeze. That worked until she got tall enough to pull the tip of the curtain in her crate an chew on it. Ds, who was almost 18 when we brought Lexi home, laughed on day and said "How does it feel to be 48 with a toddler in the house!" Which described it to a tee! Oh, and puppy obedience class? The most exhausting hour of my week!


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## Naira

Puppies can be crazy! I have a friend that has a baby less than 1 that is a handful and is actively searching for a German Shepard puppy. I've been trying to talk her out of it. Puppies are hard work, even the calmer puppies. They are cute, but behind the cuteness is a whole lot of sweat! 

Especially if you're like me and it's just you and you alone. No one else to depend on to share the load. I don't recommend it unless you're seriously committed. And for those that have done 2 puppies at once...God bless you!


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## AutumnLover

As a mom to a 10.5 week old spoo, I ask myself what did I sign myself up for every day. While Addie is adorable, and loves to cuddle on the couch, she can be an absolute terror. And I don't actually regret adopting her, boy is she more work that I thought and we are only 10 days in. While she can be sweet and mild during her off hours, when she turns on, there is no stopping her. Zoomies in the house, land shark to the extreme, inside or outside, jumping, chewing, puppy exuberance to the max. Her short attention span, in addition to her curiosity and energy make a wonderful puppy into a monster at times. On top of the energy, both my husband and I have a ton of the anxiety over trying to socialize, train, and protect her.

If I was raising her myself, I'm not sure I could do it. I am saved by a husband who is committed to not only helping pick up poo and feed her, but who can actually keep up with her energy. The amount of puppy energy that we expend every morning and night during our puppy romps takes both of us. I also thank all the advice I have found here, online and in books to help keep active and engaged. 

But most importantly, I make an effort to remind myself during the cute puppies moments how much I do actually love the little ball of fur. When she is asleep on her bed, on top of her favorite toy of the hour, passed out, I actively note the good moment, rewarding myself silently (shhhhh don't wake the puppy) how much I anticipated getting a dog for the last 7 years. Both puppy and humans need positive reinforcement when it comes to surviving puppyhood ;-)


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## Tiny Poodles

I don't know what it is. For the first 3 or 4 months with Timi I muttered "never again, this is my last puppy" over and over every day. But by the time she was a year old I started thinking maybe just one more time.
I guess that my efforts and misery were amply rewarded?


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## snmim

Mira is my first dog, I also haven't had a "baby" animal since I was a child. Mira came out to be a typically easy puppy, but even easy puppies have their difficulties. She was not used to a leash, and I remember waking up at 3AM waiting outside for her to go potty. She used to thrash around, growl and play tug o war with that leash for up 15 minutes and I could not get her to stop! I thought dogs only growled if they were about to attack, so imagine my surprise when she growled at her toys, growled when she ran, growled when she was happy.. I foolishly thought she was dangerous but that is just how she communicates. 

Nevertheless, she also growled at other dogs and people, including children. She was afraid of them and would try to hide. I sometimes wish I had gotten her from a "better" breeder because I felt that she was under-socialized. It makes you think if you get a perfect breeder, you have a perfect puppy. But in reality, like you said, there are no perfect puppies.

So I took her to training classes, I socialized her, I reconditioned her. I trained and trained because no matter what puppy you get, it is up to you to ultimately shape your life long companion. Mira is now 6 months and is now so excited around other people and dogs, she completely forgets about me now! Talk about a complete turn around.


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## hopetocurl

Willow was a great puppy. I went in understanding that I was the one that wanted her and I would be the one to do EVERYTHING with/for her. I made sure that we had plenty of stuff for her to chew on... around where she could get it. Set up a schedule in my head of how often I'd need to get up at night and worked very hard the first day(week) to get her accustomed to the crate. (I actually put her in the crate and sat it on the ottoman...put my foot on the side and read a book). Or working at my desk, with her in the crate beside me. After getting her to settle in the crate, it was easy. I also am VERY structured in my own life... so it was easy to put her on a schedule. Which I think helped. I also spent time sleeping on the sofa wholding onto her collar while she chewed. (As a result, she is a GREAT napper!!)

I kept telling myself... you are doing this for the DOG she will be, not the puppy she is. But, I have to be honest... I never asked what have I done. I was more stressed with my newborn skin babies... than I ever was with Willow.


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## Bizzeemamanj

I had several "what have I done!?!" moments when Cooper was a puppy, especially in the first six weeks he was home. He is my first dog, so I was SUPER naive about the amount of work that goes into raising a puppy correctly. It is work. Every. Single. Day. Not for a week. Not for a month. Not for a season. Forever. But boy does all that work pay off when you see your puppy grow into such a wonderful companion.

After about 6 weeks with Cooper, I had a bit of a breakdown with my girlfriend over my "terror" of a pup. She laughed and said - he's a totally normal puppy. She went on to add - don't forget! All puppies are selfish @ssholes! They're cute, but total @ssholes.

It made me laugh because it's sort of true. There are these moments of sheer joy with puppies, but also moments of wanting to pull your hair out. You have to stick with it because all the patience, persistence and love you put into a puppy really does get returned 100 fold when they mature. That makes it all worthwhile.


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## fjm

Naira said:


> Puppies can be crazy! I have a friend that has a baby less than 1 that is a handful and is actively searching for a German Shepard puppy. I've been trying to talk her out of it.


Ah - the craving for the oxytocin burst of a baby while not yet ready for another child! Try pointing out to her that her one year old will be happily crawling through pee puddles and worse while she struggles to housetrain the puppy (ever tried getting a toddler ready to go out in the less than 5 seconds window of opportunity before the puppy runs out of control?), and competing with the puppy for food and water bowl. Free feeding takes on a whole new meaning with a crawling baby...


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## Coldbrew

This is an excellent point.

I'm already getting "my puppies were perfect" memories, when really Jasper was a nasty little ankle-biting monster and Piper is only just now becoming reliably housebroken. 

It's human nature to focus on the good memories, so it's no surprise that when we are thinking of getting a new puppy (or thinking about our dogs as puppies) that we remember the positives rather than the negatives. Those selective memories are great for our mental health, I'm sure, but can obviously result in a too-rosey picture of those first few months with a new pup.


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## Poodlebeguiled

Oh, they can be trying at times for sure. But I guess I'm so enthralled with dogs and puppies that I just sort of take things in stride pretty well. I've raised a lot of puppies, trained a lot of dogs and horses too. I'm just fascinated with them and crazy about them. So, it's not_ that_ big a deal to me. 

It was a little more work raising two puppies but again, not_ that_ big a deal. I often wonder what everyone is talking about...all these problems raising two puppies and how they're going to be all screwed up. A few things took a little longer for them to achieve in the way of training but they all get there eventually. I can't see doing it if I were working or if I had a lot of little children to raise at the same time. But the way it's been, it's been worth the extra work. They've turned into lovely, well mannered, happy, affectionate and outgoing young adults. There were a couple times where I had a fleeting thought, but I was even joking actually to myself, "OMG...what have I done?" But then I'd laugh at the toilet paper strewn all over the floor or the slipper that was all soggy wet. I often just grabbed my camera. You have to have a sense of humor and let some of the annoyances go with animals or you'd go crazy with worry. Things usually seem to right themselves in time. I think people often take it all too seriously and forget to enjoy their puppies. 




I believe that if I make the commitment after much thought to get a puppy or two puppies in this case, then by golly I'm going to do my duty to raise them right. I am not the type to throw my hands up or send a puppy back when the going gets rough. And it has always paid off.

If someone has real trouble, then be prepared to pay for professional help. That's some money that should be set aside. I wish too, that people would study up on puppy raising before they get their puppy so maybe they wouldn't be so shocked.


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## PoodleFoster

fjm said:


> the myth of the Perfect Puppy: the one who sleeps happily in a crate all night from the start, is housetrained in a week of easy lessons, never chews anything except puppy toys, loves everyone, plays nicely with the cat and the children, trots beside you on a lead after just a couple of lessons...
> 
> Were there times you thought "OMG, what have I done?!" And what helped you make it through?


Hello
I have mentioned this before, but as a poodle rescuer, having a foster dog come into our home is LIKE having a puppy. Nearly every time a needy foster dog arrives, I think 'what have I done? Can I rehabilitate this dog?" I have no idea what the personality is going to be. Will he/she play? Is he/she aggressive, especially on groom table? How much effort is it going to be to potty train this dog? Is he/she going to eat? Kennel training, here we go again! Sleepless nights (just a few), spay/neuter surgery risks, compatibility to our dogs, Leash training...

I can honestly say we have fostered over 40 dogs and all were wonderful house pets when it was their time to go to permanent homes. All kennel trained, leash trained, properly fed (pounds gained, pounds lost), on a strict schedule, accustomed to grooming and socialized. This comes at a complete loss of sleep, time invested and hours of rehabilitation. They were all worth it, every one.

How did we make it through over 40 times? The families who graciously went thru the adoption process, who came out on the other side smiling, the first meeting of their new pet. The photographs I took of that very first introduction, THAT is what keeps me going.

PS. TO those of you who have adopted a rescue dog, PLEASE keep your foster/rescue apprised of your new pet. A short email, a photo, an update means so much to us who loved your pet first! It's those words of a dog's new life that really keep rescue going. It means a LOT to us.


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## Naira

Since this is a puppy thread I will put in another plug for pet insurance! I just saw on Facebook that one of our members (Delilah)'s brother was diagnosed with Addison's disease. There is a gofundme for him. 

There are a couple young dogs on this forum that were recently diagnosed with Addison's. This is a problem in our breed and it can take thousands of dollars to even establish a diagnosis. The treatment is lifelong. For the price to eat out once a month, you can be covered for unexpected illness and injuries. 

Many of you know I accidentally injured Naira's eye on Sunday. Thankfully she was OK, but I can't tell you how comfortable I felt knowing I was backed up by pet insurance. That if it had been really bad, I could afford to take every measure possible. I never had pet insurance on my previous two dogs...and I got lucky. 

However, I am really glad I have it now. A couple months ago I wondered if I really needed it and thought about cancelling it. Sure glad I didn't.


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## lily cd re

Ahh, I could go on and on about puppy OMG moments with Lily and Peeves (but honestly mostly Lily).

She is a very high drive dog and showed it all very abundantly when she was 5/6 weeks old. We both went all in for her though. Early on (even before Peeves came home) she was wild in her greetings when I got home. Since BF was at home for a while with them when they were little she was often loose in the house when I got home from work. I got to a point where I dreaded what I was going to be greeted by so of course she read my external happy hellos and my internal dread as very confusing!

She would jump all over me. I had teeth on my hands, teeth on my clothes. She ripped jackets, sweaters shirts, shredded my hands. Land shark doesn't even begin to describe it! The turn around came when I decided I needed to adjust my attitudes. I took a walk down the street before I went in the house the day I had my "revelation." I did some calming breathing and made myself believe that it would all be good when I walked through the door. Lily came charging over to me and just as she was about to jump up I said sit and she did. We had a lovely hello, just the first of many! It was very hard for me to do, but vital for our family that I did.


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## MollyMuiMa

I came from a large, noisy, always in chaos Italian family with lots of puppies and kittens and other various animals so it has never been a big deal to me to cope with all the things a puppy does to disrupt your peace and destroy your home. I learned tolerance at an early age .....You simply clean up after them, repair what they damaged, and put away what you don't want destroyed while teaching them to be a 'good dog'.....not much different than raising a toddler. 
I guess I've been really lucky and have never owned a dog with any serious behavior problems bad enough to make me want to tear my hair out or want to get rid of them! I loved them all way too much! 
I sat here and really thought hard about any bad puppy things Molly has done and the only thing she ever destroyed was the corner of a decorator pillow when she was teething.......... an extraordinarily good puppy, she has been my easiest dog EVER!!! (Except when we go to my son's house and she finds the tootsie rolls in the cat's litter box...Oh well.....LOL!)


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## TrixieTreasure

Great thread!!

I need to say again that it's been a long time since I've had puppies. Trina was a puppy in 1999, and Kaydee in 2000. But I have to say, I never thought of, " OMG, what have I gotten myself into", or anything like that. I don't remember EVER thinking about it. Perhaps it's because I was a Poodle puppy owner long before Trina and Kaydee, or maybe it's because I just took it all in stride, and never allowed myself to even think about how much work it really went into to raising a baby. For me, I LOVED taking care of a puppy. I've always wanted a puppy, not older than 13 or 14 weeks of age. I looked forward to learning and growing with my baby, and that, to me, is all part of dog ownership. Learning, growing, and making mistakes as we went along.

I remember always taking a few days off of work right after bringing the puppy home, and I remember all of the precious things my babies did throughout their puppy years, but other than that, I never really had any problems----or let me correct that---- I never had any HUGE problems. I don't know, maybe it was because I just didn't let it get to me. That's pretty much the way my personality is anyway. Just going with the flow of things, and not allowing stuff to get to me too much. 

I'm sure this post is not what anyone wants to hear, but it's the truth. If you have the mindset of just not letting things get to you, and you take it all in stride, maybe it won't be so bad. Just know that things WILL get better between you and your puppy. In the end you will be so proud of yourself and your baby of how wonderful he/she has turned out to be. And then, you'll want to do it all over again!


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## Tiny Poodles

Naira said:


> Since this is a puppy thread I will put in another plug for pet insurance! I just saw on Facebook that one of our members (Delilah)'s brother was diagnosed with Addison's disease. There is a gofundme for him.
> 
> There are a couple young dogs on this forum that were recently diagnosed with Addison's. This is a problem in our breed and it can take thousands of dollars to even establish a diagnosis. The treatment is lifelong. For the price to eat out once a month, you can be covered for unexpected illness and injuries.
> 
> Many of you know I accidentally injured Naira's eye on Sunday. Thankfully she was OK, but I can't tell you how comfortable I felt knowing I was backed up by pet insurance. That if it had been really bad, I could afford to take every measure possible. I never had pet insurance on my previous two dogs...and I got lucky.
> 
> However, I am really glad I have it now. A couple months ago I wondered if I really needed it and thought about cancelling it. Sure glad I didn't.



There is value to peace of mind!
I wish that Petplan had made a big profit off of me, but since that wasn't to be, I am grateful for the money to pay their bills!


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## TrixieTreasure

MollyMuiMa said:


> I came from a large, noisy, always in chaos Italian family with lots of puppies and kittens and other various animals so it has never been a big deal to me to cope with all the things a puppy does to disrupt your peace and destroy your home. I learned tolerance at an early age .....You simply clean up after them, repair what they damaged, and put away what you don't want destroyed while teaching them to be a 'good dog'.....not much different than raising a toddler.
> I guess I've been really lucky and have never owned a dog with any serious behavior problems bad enough to make me want to tear my hair out or want to get rid of them! I loved them all way too much!
> I sat here and really thought hard about any bad puppy things Molly has done and the only thing she ever destroyed was the corner of a decorator pillow when she was teething.......... an extraordinarily good puppy, she has been my easiest dog EVER!!! (Except when we go to my son's house and she finds the tootsie rolls in the cat's litter box...Oh well.....LOL!)



 I'm STILL smiling! Good mindset to have!! 
Great post!


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## Granberry

PoodleFoster said:


> Hello
> I have mentioned this before, but as a poodle rescuer, having a foster dog come into our home is LIKE having a puppy. Nearly every time a needy foster dog arrives, I think 'what have I done? Can I rehabilitate this dog?" I have no idea what the personality is going to be. Will he/she play? Is he/she aggressive, especially on groom table? How much effort is it going to be to potty train this dog? Is he/she going to eat? Kennel training, here we go again! Sleepless nights (just a few), spay/neuter surgery risks, compatibility to our dogs, Leash training...
> 
> I can honestly say we have fostered over 40 dogs and all were wonderful house pets when it was their time to go to permanent homes. All kennel trained, leash trained, properly fed (pounds gained, pounds lost), on a strict schedule, accustomed to grooming and socialized. This comes at a complete loss of sleep, time invested and hours of rehabilitation. They were all worth it, every one.
> 
> How did we make it through over 40 times? The families who graciously went thru the adoption process, who came out on the other side smiling, the first meeting of their new pet. The photographs I took of that very first introduction, THAT is what keeps me going.
> 
> PS. TO those of you who have adopted a rescue dog, PLEASE keep your foster/rescue apprised of your new pet. A short email, a photo, an update means so much to us who loved your pet first! It's those words of a dog's new life that really keep rescue going. It means a LOT to us.


The time and trouble you invest in gathering those fosters from shelters or wherever and spend getting them over their health problems is a lot, but wow, it would pale in comparison to the time and trouble you must face housebreaking them and teaching them basic indoor manners. I admire it so much. Housebreaking puppies is my least favorite task, but housebreaking an adult dog would be so much more frustrating because their needs are less predictable and they aren't as eager to please as puppies. And to teach them to mind manners and soothe them into showing personality to make them good pets...MUCH harder than those undamaged puppies.


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## Mfmst

I was looking at my kitchen island today and noticed that there is a line of objects out of Poodle snout, Poodle paw reach. There is no margin of error with Buck. The one time the toilet lid is up (slurp) or the one time the trash lid isn't completely secure... If you are a pushover, he will not only push you over, he may run over you! He is smart and stubborn, high energy and exuberant. Everybody has to be consistent and firm or reap the whirlwind. So it's been wild. A lot.

I see the promise in this dog and I am not going to let him down. The first thing I realized was that I needed help training him. I had no experience with this caliber of dog. While some of you have MPS, my fantasy is to have all of our best PF trainers work with Buck. I found a good trainer and do the best I can in between. Potty training was a breeze and it also helps to be good-looking or I might have posted a "so disappointed" or an "at wit's end" thread. I celebrate my small successes and take the long view. I will have a future perfect Poodle but it doesn't magically happen.


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## fjm

I see a pattern emerging - the more experience you have with animals in general and puppies in particular, and the more inclined you are to go with the flow and not be perfectly in control, the easier the ride! Not surprising really...

Poodlefoster, there must be dogs and families everywhere blessing your name daily, and some families perhaps who do not quite realise how much they owe to you, and other people like you.


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## robby69

Our new spoo puppy is almost 13-weeks. We have had her for 2.5 weeks. Like most folks, we forgot how much work it is ! Outside every hour, 3 feedings and lots of play to tire her out.

Her 8 year old big sister helps out alot. They play with toys non-stop, and wrestle. We are most happy that our older spoo is taken with the puppy.

No accidents in the crate, and sleeps all night without having to go out. We have designated areas in 3 rooms that have been puppy proofed with tarps, where we tether her in with us. Accidents are getting fewer, but with all the playing going on, sometimes even going out every hour is not enough.

She is eating alot now. Bag says 1.5-2 cups daily, and most days she goes 2-3 cups. We have never had an overweight spoo, and have always free fed our adults, so I am sure the new puppy will self regulate soon.

Can't wait until fully house trained though.


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## Chagall's mom

I have raised multiple dogs (and children). I never for a second wanted any of them gone. But at times I wished for a clone of myself to come take care of them!

We brought Chagall home as a nine week old pup eight days after our 16 year old terrier was PTS. We were used to living with an adult dog, which is _a world apart_ from living with a puppy! I remember having talks with myself.

"_You brought this little furball into your life. You want a dog. Life is better with a dog. The best way for you to get the dog you want is to raise a puppy to be it. One day he will be old. And one day he will be gone. Breathe deep and enjoy the ride."_​
As puppies go Chagall was easy enough, except for his surprising land shark prowess. He didn't destroy or chew things that weren't his (or soon became his, like toilet paper rolls). But his needle sharp puppy teeth on my ageing skin was a _not _a fun thing. Leash training tried both our resolve. In retrospect, my expectations early on were _grossly _unfair. I wanted him out prancing nicely alongside me far too quickly, not appreciating how his puppy curiosity would cause him to break stride and bop around. 

I had the luxury of raising puppy Chagall while being retired, that made things altogether much easier. I'm one who wakes up easily and early, so the 'round o'clock housebreaking outings weren't_ that_ big a deal. (Though scurrying outside in the early morning to let him go first, _before_ me, as I stood there with my knees pressed together wasn't always the height of pleasant.) I went back to work part-time when Chagall was 9 months old (got an offer I couldn't refuse). I only needed to be away from him for four hours at a time a few days a week. But I pined for him! I resumed full retirement when he turned two.

I readily admit having to adjust my schedule around his puppy needs wasn't all rainbows and roses. There were times when I didn't much feel like it but knew I had to stop whatever I was doing or get back home to attend to his needs. But that's part of the lifelong commitment you make to a dog and I knew it going in. 

I do feel badly for those who buy into the Disney-like fantasy of the perfect-from-the get-go puppy who is house trained in 24 hours, learns how to sit/down/give paw/go to mat/fetch/walk on leash/do tricks/play the piano and embroider within hours. (And never, ever throws up on the carpet!) That sort of hype can really inflate a novice puppy owner's notion of what to expect. Real love takes effort! Poodle puppies are little bundles of pure love with four a paws and a tail. And they are _so_ worth the effort! 

To all those currently "raising baby," hang in there! You'll be so glad you did.


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## aasteapots

I will admit that Silvie was an extremely easy puppy. One of the best I have ever had. Vidia was hell to house train. I swear little dogs are much harder to house train than big dogs. With all this being said we are bring home a new puppy Dec. 27th and then another in the spring of 2016. We are excited for this. ask me again next summer... I may or may not be too exhausted to respond LMBO!


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## Theo'sMom

I think this is a great thread. It's good to dispel the myth of the completely easy puppy. I know some puppies are easier than others and my Chloe (youngest) was easy compared to Theo (oldest) but there still were days with Chloe when I felt trapped in the kitchen. (because it's where she could have accidents without staining a carpet and i stayed there with her so she wouldn't be alone and I was tired of watching her.) They were so cute though, and they were so joyful and funny, I would raise a puppy again without a second thought.

They did need constant watching for months to intercept poops and pees and chewing things. I was a good watcher, so they only had about one accident a week after the first few weeks, but they would've had more had I not been intercepting. At 5 months I could trust them completely not to pee or poop in the house. 

I think they cried at night in their crate next to my bed for a part of the night for the first few weeks. I was home from work for the summer when I got them at 8 weeks til they were about 4 months, b/c I work at a school, so I didn't have to crate them during the day too much when they were young. When they were 4-5 months, I crated them while I was at work, and that helped them get used to the crate too.

Theo was an alligator (or shark) until he was 5 months. It was very upsetting. He wouldn't let me touch him without him biting me. I did everything they said to do; yell ouch, squeal, turn my back to him, stop playing, say no. The only thing that worked was to put a toy in his mouth. He might still decide to bite me anyway. This stopped at 5 months. Chloe did not bite at all-what a dream girl! Well, she bit Theo, ha, ha- payback for him. He didn't mind her biting him. He was about 1.2 years old when she came to us.

Theo also never slept during the day and had high energy. Chloe slept like a puppy is supposed to and she goes to bed at 8:30 every night. 

Things that *saved* us were: long, long walks where they could say hi to neighborhood dogs, training sessions, teaching them things, bully sticks and most importantly, our play dates with other pups their age and a big fenced in backyard.


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## kmart

I am sure I will kick myself for this later, but I WANT a rotten little puppy! I want a naughty, loud, destructive monster! I want to be up all night, I want to be outside every hour! I want my cats to think I've lost my mind! 

If it means having a puppy, then I want it.


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## TrixieTreasure

fjm said:


> I see a pattern emerging - the more experience you have with animals in general and puppies in particular, and the more inclined you are to go with the flow and not be perfectly in control, the easier the ride! Not surprising really...
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, I think you hit the puppy nail right on the head, lol!


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## Mfmst

I think it makes a HUGE difference in the breeds you had before you got your first Poodle. There can be a real culture shock when you have had dogs that were lower energy and not the sharpest knives in the drawer. I joke that I'm training a lawyer! Buck is going to find the loophole, the weak link and exploit it, if he can. When folks join PF and say they have always had Poodles or wanted a new breed after dealing with GSD's, BC's shedding issues, I always think they have the chops and will be delighted. Not that one's first experience with a Poodle would be bad whatsoever, but if you go into it with the 'yeah,yeah, I know what I'm doing' and you've only ever had a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, let's say, then you are in for a ride Or Scotties as in my case. The point is that Poodles are a higher order of dog, and you have to bring game. "So Disappointed " "Not What I Expected", could be more about you than the dog.


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## TrixieTreasure

Mfmst said:


> I think it makes a HUGE difference in the breeds you had before you got your first Poodle. There can be a real culture shock when you have had dogs that were lower energy and not the sharpest knives in the drawer. I joke that I'm training a lawyer! Buck is going to find the loophole, the weak link and exploit it, if he can. When folks join PF and say they have always had Poodles or wanted a new breed after dealing with GSD's, BC's shedding issues, I always think they have the chops and will be delighted. Not that one's first experience with a Poodle would be bad whatsoever, but if you go into it with the 'yeah,yeah, I know what I'm doing' and you've only ever had a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, let's say, then you are in for a ride Or Scotties as in my case. The point is that Poodles are a higher order of dog, and you have to bring game. "So Disappointed " "Not What I Expected", could be more about you than the dog.



Overall, I agree with that. That's a more realistic view of things.

With me, I never had a dog of my own until I got married, and our Poodle, Tinker, was our first ( and Poodles has been the only breed since). The only dog who was in my life when I was growing up was a cocker spaniel named Lady, and she passed away when she was 12, and I was 11.

I do think a lot of it has to do with the general personality of the owners. I never went into Poodle ownership as thinking I knew what I was doing, but I did go into it with the "oh well" kind of attitude when things went wrong. I do remember checking out a lot of books at the library, reading up on how to take care of Poodles, but the overall day to day life was just a learn as we go type of thing. I honestly don't remember ever wanting to pull my hair out or thinking that it was not what I expected. My husband and I chose not to have children, but my family always said that we should have had kids because of the way I deal with stress and everyday life. I just seem to have that 'go with the flow' kind of attitude. At least it helps keep the blood pressure down, lol.


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## fjm

kmart said:


> I am sure I will kick myself for this later, but I WANT a rotten little puppy! I want a naughty, loud, destructive monster! I want to be up all night, I want to be outside every hour! I want my cats to think I've lost my mind!
> 
> If it means having a puppy, then I want it.


I am bookmarking this, so that I can remind you when the time comes! But you are certainly going into puppy owning knowing what to expect!


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## Gossamerpink

I'm a first time mom of puppies... And they're litter mates! I have an older dog which was raised by my husband as a puppy, and he's such a fine dog. I thought having more of him would be a great idea. I still do, but I didn't know how demanding it would be.

The first time I saw Phoenix and Copper, I fell in love. They were fluffy, with cute little wagging tails, teddy-bearish features, playful, and inquisitive. My husband and I had a hard time choosing between the two, so we got them both. My "What did I get myself into?" moment happened the night they came home, when I read about the horrors of Littermate Syndrome on the Internet. But my husband and I are committed. Hence, while I cry of exhaustion at least once a week, has significantly decreased my gaming with my husband, and had a lot less sexy time with him, I find comfort in the fact that this is temporary.

What keeps me going? They are cute. Sounds shallow, but I find myself basking in delight everyday in the many little things that they do (or don't, like the rare days with no potty accidents). Part of it, I think is because I like kids a lot. And maybe, I find that these puppies are kinda like kids too. Or maybe, I just really love them. I don't really know. I only feel.

Anyhow, I've had them for 6weeks now and they seem to be doing ok, except for some potty training accidents. But, who knows what the future will bring? I take things one day at a time, and hope that I can make it through.

And yes, reading about people's experiences with puppies and knowing that there's help from this forum makes me hopeful.


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## Poodlebeguiled

Gossamerpink said:


> I'm a first time mom of puppies... And they're litter mates! I have an older dog which was raised by my husband as a puppy, and he's such a fine dog. I thought having more of him would be a great idea. I still do, but I didn't know how demanding it would be.
> 
> The first time I saw Phoenix and Copper, I fell in love. They were fluffy, with cute little wagging tails, teddy-bearish features, playful, and inquisitive. My husband and I had a hard time choosing between the two, so we got them both. My "What did I get myself into?" moment happened the night they came home, when I read about the horrors of Littermate Syndrome on the Internet. But my husband and I are committed. Hence, while I cry of exhaustion at least once a week, has significantly decreased my gaming with my husband, and had a lot less sexy time with him, I find comfort in the fact that this is temporary.
> 
> What keeps me going? They are cute. Sounds shallow, but I find myself basking in delight everyday in the many little things that they do (or don't, like the rare days with no potty accidents). Part of it, I think is because I like kids a lot. And maybe, I find that these puppies are kinda like kids too. Or maybe, I just really love them. I don't really know. I only feel.
> 
> Anyhow, I've had them for 6weeks now and they seem to be doing ok, except for some potty training accidents. But, who knows what the future will bring? I take things one day at a time, and hope that I can make it through.
> 
> And yes, reading about people's experiences with puppies and knowing that there's help from this forum makes me hopeful.


You'll be fine. They'll be fine. Don't worry. Just be prepared to be busy for a year or so. Everything will work out fine if you are caring, which, you are or you would't be here. It's a little bit of a chore but you can do it just fine. Read my pm's.


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## Gossamerpink

Poodlebeguiled said:


> You'll be fine. They'll be fine. Don't worry. Just be prepared to be busy for a year or so. Everything will work out fine if you are caring, which, you are or you would't be here. It's a little bit of a chore but you can do it just fine. Read my pm's.


Thanks again. You guys make this world a little better to live in. Sincerely.


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## nifty

What a great thread, fjm, thank you!

Dulcie was a fairly easy puppy in many respects - she did house train with astonishing speed, adjusted to her crate within a couple of days, had no health issues and was a little star at puppy obedience (in between being a little terror at puppy obedience class lol).

The issues I had been concerned about before I got her (would I be able to house train her effectively? Would she be able to learn her manners with my inexpert training?) turned out to be non issues.

HOWEVER, LAND SHARK AHOY! Oh my oh my, those puppy teeth! And playful! And trying to walk without her lunging on her leash to get to other dogs to play play play!!!!!!

That went on for a few months and I despaired of ever training her out of it!

As others have said, having resources to consult (like PF here and also training classes) is the answer - and a clear -eyed commitment to ongoing, every day training. I learned that it is true that training doesn't have tot make hours every day - but several brief training sessions daily to work on specific behaviors and ongoing, consistent messages all day long are so important. And yes there were days when I got so frustrated - when all my efforts seemed to be making not the slightest dent in her behavior.

Then, inevitably a corner is turned and one unwanted behavior after another begins to disappear - while one wanted behavior after another begins to pop up regularly. YAY!

Dulcie keeps me humble. Just as I am patting myself on the back and smiling smugly about how good my girl is --- she will walk into the sitting room with a loaf of bread in her mouth that I had left cooling on a rack - and BAM, I now have a counter surfer at 18 months. 

Yes, it is a challenge and it is hard and it is beautiful and fun and crazy and I wouldn't trade it for the world. Dulcie is my heart dog and I am thankful every day that I have her in my life. When she sighs in her crate at night as I turn off the light, I smile and am glad as always that she and I are on this journey together!


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## lily cd re

nifty I can't believe I forgot to put counter surfing on my list of things I mis handled with Lily. I started putting booby traps on the counter the first time I saw Javelin look up at all. He seems to be keeping his nose out of harm's way.


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## nifty

Catherine, I don't even know if there IS a way to handle counter surfing so it doesn't develop. I read all the threads back when DUlcie was young and I did everything advised, because I really did not want her to get the idea or be reinforced even ONCE for surfing -- I haven't had food on the counters for over a year! About a month ago, I made the mistake of briefly leaving steaks unattended on the kitchen counter. Dulcie did not get at them, but she was staring up at the counter where they were with a lot of interest! I congratulated myself that she really WAS trained not to counter surf! Go me!

And then after her illness last week, I had the bread on the counter after getting a new bread machine and in she trotted with the loaf in her mouth. You could have scraped my jaw off the floor. So much for the non-surfing Dulcie! At 18 months, she is a late-bloomer I guess!


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## ericwd9

*Poodle Pogo shark with attitude*

Attitude, I was once a professional trainer of both horses and working dogs. Working dogs are the easiest for house training. They aren't. I trained GSDs for police work, Sight Hounds for hunting and horsed for police work and eventing. The worst horses were Shetland ponies for children (more important to train the child than the horse) I inherited a large mini poodle from my mom when she took her own life. The dog had not eaten for 2 weeks and was in bad shape. I called at my sisters place and the dog rose walked to me wagged her tail and lay on my feet. I think she adopted me. She was a constant and uncomplaining companion for another 8 years. I never had one issue with her. After I retired in 1996 I traveled, remarried and Had 17 years of dog free time. (missed them) When I decided to have a dog I remembered the one standard poodle we had in the police force. She would _calm _the felons. "Call that a police dog" dog shows teeth and growled bloodcurdlingly. "Well I guess she means business." Dog leads felon to the truck while felon pats dog and says "can I ride with her in the truck?"
I arranged a standard poodle from a breeder famous for hunting retrievers. Visits to puppy showed her to be high energy but calm with children. Enter Poodle pogo shark with attitude. Had I not had all the previous experience I could not have coped, period. She was the most demanding and most intelligent dog I have trained. House training, she trained me (at all hours) Chewing, she chewed me, my wife and everything I gave her. She never chewed anything she did not regard as hers. From the time she awoke to the times she slept (Oh heaven!) she would jump like a demented pogo stick with a shark on it. Attitude!! She would submit to my demands with stink eye. She wanted to be my wife's superior and would even take her place in her bed (not wanted) It was a strain to teach my wife to master her. 
Today she is a loving, cuddling, obedient, careful, much loved by all, and easy to live with dog, that adapts to ANYTHING.
Excellent thread. I had contemplated something like it with all the new guys on the block. But FJM has done better than I could have.
Eric.:amen:


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## fjm

Eric, I love your story of the Police Poodle! And you show that even a professional dog trainer can find raising a puppy challenging...


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## ericwd9

fjm said:


> Eric, I love your story of the Police Poodle! And you show that even a professional dog trainer can find raising a puppy challenging...


The Police poodle, Maisy came about when another trainer, fostered a police GSD and trained it at home. At the same time he had a spoo pet puppy. They grew up together and both became celebrated police dogs. The poodle had a better nose than the GSDs and caused less trouble. I forgot to mention the ear to ear smile and soothing whine old Maisy would give to felons if they cooperated with her. She was one of a kind.
Eric:angel2:


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## Chagall's mom

Pardon my going OFF TOPIC... I think this superb puppy reality check thread should be made a "sticky." I'm going to PM the moderator to suggest it. Anyone feeling likewise please do the same, thanks! :focus:


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## mom2Zoe

While the kids wanted a dog and my husband did not I knew all the responsibility would be mine.
I really never owned a dog before so even the difficult moments I did not give too much thought about, just totally immersed myself into the job.
Zoe is a high energy dog so it did not phase me that much since it is a high energy house.
She did her share of chewing things she should not . Which cost me a lot to replace, and then some I could not replace.I think the chewing and eating things she should not was the puppy part that drove me insane. She had two vet visits and loads of money for eating things she shouldn't

I am happy that now Zoe will only chew on her toys, although she still has this one annoying habit that drives me up a wall. If the kids are playing outside basketball or hockey and I can not let her out she will jump and bite at my window treatment to be let out. Any advice? It is done out of frustration. It is costing me 700$ to fix what she did.

The housebreaking I did not find a problem. I stuck to a schedule and waited patiently for it to happen, Zoe did it with ease.Zoe adjusted to her crate quite easily as well.

She only cried in her crate a night or two. I did not bring her crate up to bedroom because my hubby would not let me. Maybe it made the night stage easier. 

For a first time dog owner I think we both did a great job!!! I am not sure I would do it all over again, maybe an older dog.
I am 48 and still so busy with my family. It was a real time commitment and for a few months it was all about Zoe which meant not being there enough for kids.


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## Mfmst

I also want to thank Eric for being the only PF member who opined that a SPOO might not be the easiest dog for a novice trainer. Given his extensive background in training police dogs, I gave that a lot of weight. I hired a trainer and even DH takes correction from her. My husband was always the weak link in consistency and setting boundaries. Prevented a lot of arguments too


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## mom2Zoe

I also just remembered another difficult puppy task

Rain Rain and Rain

So I have to say Zoe is still not particularly fond of the rain ,she will generally run out do her businesses and run back in. Puppy time was a nightmare....

The first few times Zoe hated the rain coming down on her and we would get a few feet away from house and she would run back.Each time it would rain I would take her out to get used to it even only for a few seconds. She still refused to pee or poop when it was raining. Now for an adult dog that might work, but not for a puppy. My will was stronger than hers and I remember many times being in the pouring rain for a half hour saying we are not going in until you peep/ poop. Those days were not fun....

So if your new puppy does hate the rain that is ok, but they still need to learn to do their thing and go back in. If you live in an area where it can rain all day they must learn!!


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## ericwd9

The most annoying and difficult thing for a puppy to do (or not do) is to not bond with you. Occasionally handler and dog seem not to be able to bond at all. If they were both humans this would be regarded as normal since humans can be very fussy who they like to be with. Dogs on the other hand are expected to bond with their adoptive family without problems. But occasionally a dog and his/her handler just do not get on at all. I would say that if a puppy has not bonded to you in 4 weeks then you should think of returning him and trying again with another. I have seen this in about 1 puppy in 100. In one case the puppy had been with his adoptive handler for 3 months and I took it over. It bonded to me in two days. The handler took another puppy home and it bonded with him that day. Everybody happy! I can not understand this except by humanizing the dogs. Dogs usually are predictable unlike humans.
Eric.


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## Ragamuffin

fjm said:


> Were there times you thought "OMG, what have I done?!" And what helped you make it through?


I have only had my 9 week old puppy for just over a week so my thoughts on the matter are only so useful. 

A plus: my puppy has a fantastic temperament thanks to the expertise of his breeder and his parents who also have great temperaments so that's a great start. He's secure by nature, friendly, confident, and accepts situations (eg being confined to his pen) once it's clear whining won't win. He's not what I'd call highly strung. He's a great sleeper. So I'm very pleased I went with the breeder I did and chose the puppy I did. But, having said that, he's still a puppy and still a huge challenge. He's the most 'alpha' of the three boys in the litter and bright as a button. I have a strong suspicion he'd become a monster if we don't set clear rules (I chose him because we connected well and I hope to do agility with him - I wanted a plucky, friendly dog with an 'inner confidence'). 

A negative: I am not experienced in successfully raising a puppy (I loved our dogs as a child but grew up in a slightly chaotic household where dogs were more or less untrained, badly undersocialised and I was the frustrated youngest child doing my best to train them as I thought it was very important but didn't quite know how!) so I have called on lots of different resources since this is my first puppy in 30 years! What is helping me get through it, in no particular order:

*I now work from home which is why I decided the time was right for a puppy (I've wanted one for years but have held off for a variety of reasons)

*A regular schedule with plenty of sleeping time, exercise and small bursts of training throughout the day. I try to keep things simple. I have adopted a matter-of-fact personality around him, I try not to be a pushover. When I arrive home or leave, I don't rush to him and cuddle him immediately so he works himself into a lather of anticipation. I get on with a few things and then go to him after a while. He learns patience and also doesn't get quite so anxious (that's the idea anyway!)

*Ian Dunbar's 'Before you get your Puppy' and 'After you get your puppy' books (free books available in pdf format online) have tons of practical advice on how to reward good behaviour and manage/prevent unwanted behaviour. I'm pretty sure it would be horrendous if I wasn't following some sort of plan devised by someone who knows more than I do. Our puppy is not allowed free rein in the house. He doesn't get to chew our shoes or furniture. His playpen is in our spare room and we've puppy proofed it so he can also be out of the pen sometimes with us. He gets brief amounts of supervised time in some of the other rooms once he's eliminated outside so is safe to be there. The idea is error free housetraining and that even though the confinement seems harsh you are setting the dog up for greater freedom when it's older. Dunbar is also big on chew toys stuffed with treats so the puppy learns to entertain himself in good ways so I've stocked up well on those. Persistence is key as he wasn't keen on the stuffed kongs at first but is getting the idea. So far he seems to actually like the routine, especially since he now realises that he isn't confined for hours on end in either his play pen or his crate, it's just for an hour or two (or overnight in his pen) and then he gets to play, learn tricks and run around with us. As I'm typing this, he is sleeping next to me in his crate. I've just sorted out the washing and done that, also with him in his crate. In an hour I'll take him outside for a toilet break, brief training and play. He's been complaining on and off but is now asleep. I don't talk to him all that much while he's in his crate, I just get on with things.

* Other books, example Patricia McConnell's book 'The Other End of the Leash' provides very interesting insights into human and dog behaviour - I'm reading that at the moment. 

* This forum and other dog forums. The second day we had him, he turned into a leg humping maniac. I didn't quite know to handle it. I googled it and followed the advice I found. I'm not sure whether it's the best advice or not but I made a loud clap and made it clear it wasn't on. He's stopped doing it. A few times a day he becomes possessed by a demon chewer/nipper but I've been making yelping noises and it's working, he's moderating his nipping with us. I also make sure that there is always a chew or other toy handy to give to him.

*I'm also taking him to Puppy Pre-School because with my lack of experience I can only glean so much from books and forums like this (case in point - I tried following instructions I'd read somewhere on how to teach him to sit. Should be the easiest thing in the world to teach but he kept standing on his hind legs as poodles do, looking up at the treat rather than sitting. I went to puppy pre-school where they move the treat above and behind the nose and it forces a sit. Voila! Following Dunbar's advice, I've incorporated the sit into all sorts of daily situations where it's helpful if he sits - so he sits before he gets to eat, he sits while I put on his lead, he sits before we go outside, he sits before I throw him a ball. He also sits now just for the heck of it because he thinks it pleases me. So, one day I didn't know quite how to do it and the very next he was sitting. I'll continue to take him to Obedience classes once puppy school is over and then hopefully we'll move on to dog sports if we both take to it.

Anyway, I'm not sure any of this is helpful but I have thought several times this week that if I wasn't following especially Ian Dunbar's advice, I'd be going mad as our place and time would be entirely sacrificed to the puppy. Some of Dunbar's suggestions are a bit extreme and could be done more informally (like four puppy parties a week for socialisation purposes where you turf out the guests if they are not treating the puppy correctly! lol) but on the whole I've found many of the suggestions are saving the day and are having the effect on his behaviour that we want.


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## MiniPoo

My DH and I have raised 6 puppies since we bought our first house in 1990. The first was a lab mix from The Humane Society who was 3 months. She seemed nice at first but was a devil dog who bit me viciously at times (never my husband), bit the leash, was dog aggressive, tore up the furniture and kitchen cabinets etc. By age of 2 she had mellowd out energy wise and bonded deeply with my husband. 

The minipoodle we got next was actually a dream to raise compared to the devil dog Dominique from the Humane Society. Except the poodle had so many medical problems he died before he was 5 years old.

The Portuguese Water Dog I got next was so mild and meek, he barely had a personality. He did not want to walk or cuddle or play. I think I actually hated him for a while because he was nothing like the poodle I had loved. Turned out he had Addison's and was a nervous dog, but he learned to cuddle and he loved people, especially children. And he adored and lived just to be near me. He was the perfect service dog.

The next PWD was Phoenix who was actually quite easy to raise as a puppy. The hardest part of raising her was figuring out what to feed her because she had allergies. Phoenix is now our oldest dog.

We got Neeka to be my husband's dog because the others followed me around and ignored him. I wanted to take Neeka back to the breeder. She bit my older dogs and had an energy level higher than any other dog we have raised. My husband threatened to leave me and take Neeka. So I had to bite the bullet, tether her to me and supervise her 24/7 to make sure she didn't hurt my other dogs and did not chew up the furniture and walls anymore. She also straightened out after 2 years and has become a wonderful dog.

When Neeka was 4 years we got our minipoodle Dakota to play with her since Phoenix refused to do that. Dakota is a very well bred performance dog who thinks all toys are his and will bite Neeka to prove it. I had hoped he would be more mellow but it was almost a repeat of Neeka as a puppy. Again I had to supervise him 24/7 to prevent injury to Neeka and Phoenix. He is 10 months now and leaves Phoenix alone but will still bite Neeka on occasion. I can see signs that he is mellowing and life is easier now. But he has been all consuming for the first 6-7 months to raise him.

Raising a puppy is a lot of work, a lot of time, a trial of patience and usually does not go as you expect it will. But puppies grow up and it will get better--perhaps after a few years.


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## lily cd re

So glad to see this as a sticky. I was thinking along the same lines Chagall's Mom.

Ragamuffin I have had the good luck to go to a number of seminars and working dog events with Ian Dunbar (before he decided to retire from the lecture circuit this year). There is a thread that has lots of insights from the dear doctor from those seminars here. http://www.poodleforum.com/23-general-training-obedience/100970-ian-dunbar-seminar-workshop.html


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## Chagall's mom

I thought this comprehensive reading list on training (posted years ago a very dog savvy member) would be a good resource to share here. Whether you're thinking about getting a puppy, or presently raising a pup, there's something worthwhile here!

http://www.poodleforum.com/23-gener...d-based-training-reading-list.html#post192149
category 1 : general books
Inside of a Dog: What Dogs See, Smell, and Know: What Dogs Think and Know by Alexandra Horowitz
Bones Would Rain from the Sky: Deepening Our Relationships with Dogs by Suzanne Clothier
How dogs learn by Burch and Bailey
Excel-Erated Learning: Explaining in Plain English How Dogs Learn and How Best to Teach Them by Pamela J. Reid
Dog Language by Roger Abrantes
On Talking Terms with Dogs: Calming Signals by Turid Rugaas
Canine Body Language: A Photographic Guide: Interpreting the Native Language of the Domestic Dog by Brenda Aloff
Understanding the Silent Communication of Dogs by Rosie J. Lowry 

category 2: change my mind - abandon dominance
Dominance in Dogs: Fact or Fiction? by Barry Eaton (small but vital book - easy and interesting)
In Defence of Dogs - Why Dogs Need Our Understanding by John Bradshaw
The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson
Oh Behave by Jean Donaldson
Dominance Theory and Dogs by James O'Heare
Bonding With Your Dog by Victoria Schade
The Other End of the Leash: Why we do what we do around dogs by Patricia McConnell
Dogs are from Neptune by Jean Donaldson 

category 3: puppies - super cute! 
Perfect Puppy by Gwen Bailey
Before & After Getting Your Puppy by Ian Dunbar 
Puppy Primer by Patricia McConnell and Brenda Scidmore

category 4: general training
The Complete Idiots Guide to Positive Dog Training by Pamela Dennison
Unlock Your Dogs Potential by Sarah Fisher
100 Ways to Train the Perfect Dog by Sarah Fisher and Marie Miller
Doctor Dunbar's Good Little Dog Book by Ian Dunbar
Clever Dog by Gwen Bailey
Getting in Ttouch with your Dog by Linda Tellington-Jones
How to Handle Living with Your Dog by Winkie Spiers
How to Behave So Your Dog Behaves by Sophia Yin
The Power of Positive Dog Training by Pat Miller 

category 5: clicker training
Click to Calm by Emma Parsons
Reaching the Animal Mind: Clicker Training and What It Teaches Us about All Animals by Karen Pryor
Don’t Shoot the Dog by Karen Pyror
Clicking with Your Dog: Step-By-Step in Pictures by Peggy Tillman
Getting Started: Clicker Training for Dogs by Karen Pryor
When Pigs Fly! Training Success with Impossible Dogs by Jane Killion 

category 6: specifics
Mine!: A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs by Jean Donaldson
Behavior Adjustment Training: BAT for Fear, Frustration, and Aggression in Dogs by Grisha Stewart
Stress in Dogs by Martins Scholz & Clarissa von Reinhardt
Separation Distress & Dogs by James O’ Heare
Aggressive Behaviour In Dogs by James O’Heare
Aggression in Dogs by Brenda Aloff
A Guide to Living with & Training a Fearful Dog by Debbie Jacobs
Cautious Canine by Patricia McConnell
Help For your Fearful Dog by Nicole Wilde
100 Ways to Solve Your Dog's Problems by Sarah Fisher & Marie Miller
Barking, the Sound of a Language by Turid Rugaas
How to teach a new dog old tricks by Ian Dunbar
Fight!: A Practical Guide to the Treatment of Dog-dog Aggression by Jean Donaldson
Feisty Fido: Help for the Leash-Reactive Dog by Patricia Mcconnell
Scaredy Dog - Understanding & Rehabilitating your Reactive Dog by Ali Brown
Feeling Outnumbered - How to manage and enjoy a multi dog household by Patricia McConnell & Karen London
Stop - How to control predatory chasing in dogs by David Ryan
Focus not Fear - Training insights from a Reactive Dog Class by Ali Brown
The Canine Commandments by Kendal Shepherd (a must for anyone with children) 

category 7: in-depth
The Evolution of Canine Social Behavior by Roger Abrantes
Handbook of Applied Dog Behavior and Training: Volume I, II & III by Steve Lindsay
Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt (good in particular for those doing actually training & classes)
Dogs a New Understanding of Canine Origin Behaviour and Evolution by Ray & Lorna Coppinger
Dog Behaviour: Genetics And The Social Behavior Of The Dog by John Paul Scott
Canine Neuropsychology for Dog Behaviour Counselors and Trainers by James O'Heare
Canine Behavior: A Guide for Veterinarians by Bonnie Beaver
Changing People, Changing Dogs, Positive Solutions for Difficult Dogs by Dee Ganley
Aggressive Behaviour in Dogs a comprehensive technical manual for professionals by James O’Heare
Low Stress Handling, restraint and Behaviour modification of Dogs & Cats Techniques for developing patients who love their visits by Sophia Yin
__________________


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## fjm

Thanks CM - I always wish the reading list thread could be made a sticky, as I can never find it!


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## Gossamerpink

Saw this and remembered this thread


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## Manxcat

First of all, I don't think Pippin was a bad pup, but I am constantly amazed that she turned out as well as she has given her totally novice, naïve, unprepared owners!!

She is unbelievably clever, bouncy, full on, big character. Enter idiot humans who had no idea, and after 3 months I was having a nervous breakdown and ready to send her back to the breeder... Talk about "OMG what have I done" moment!!! 

Thankfully, never having been one to either admit defeat or be unable to swallow my pride, we engaged a behaviourist/trainer who came to our house and broke down in hysterics at the cooking pots around the floor covering the holes in the carpet where a certain little madam liked to dig and unravel the threads... Once she'd composed herself she showed us lots of great ideas to try and basically saved my sanity!

We did follow-ups with her periodically after that, but I think the biggest difference was that she gave me confidence to deal with our little 3lb monster.

I didn't have a problem with housetraining, but spent most of the first 3 months in a panic, terrified I would do something "wrong" and scar Pippin's psyche forever... (which I may well have done!)... and be consigned to the circle of hell that deals with bad owners.

*I forgot to enjoy it.*

When we got her people kept telling me it was like raising a child... well I DIDN'T DO THAT EITHER!!! It was not terribly helpful advice really!!

The one thing we had going for us was that our pets (previously cats) have always had priority in our lives, before our needs, so we never had a problem with the commitment required with a pup. Had a few problems with the energy required though :biggrin:

Finding this forum when she was a year old has been an absolute Godsend though - just wish I'd found it before we got her and I might have been better prepared!


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## Ragamuffin

Mfmst said:


> I think it makes a HUGE difference in the breeds you had before you got your first Poodle. There can be a real culture shock when you have had dogs that were lower energy and not the sharpest knives in the drawer. I joke that I'm training a lawyer! Buck is going to find the loophole, the weak link and exploit it, if he can. When folks join PF and say they have always had Poodles or wanted a new breed after dealing with GSD's, BC's shedding issues, I always think they have the chops and will be delighted. Not that one's first experience with a Poodle would be bad whatsoever, but if you go into it with the 'yeah,yeah, I know what I'm doing' and you've only ever had a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, let's say, then you are in for a ride Or Scotties as in my case. The point is that Poodles are a higher order of dog, and you have to bring game. "So Disappointed " "Not What I Expected", could be more about you than the dog.


I think this may well be right. Between us we've grown up with a high energy labrador retriever, keeshond cross mutt plus kelpies, dobermans and red heelers so we're actually pleased/relieved that our first poodle puppy has lots of doggy energy and interests. I think he'd be great at Agility as he's physically very plucky and active; just hope I can train him well enough so that he gets to be the dog he should be. I have moments where I'm concerned my inexperience with training might let him down but just taking it day by day ...


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## Ragamuffin

Almost 2 weeks in. Ragamuffin is adorable but I must admit yesterday I had a quiet OMG moment - mainly because I'm sleep deprived (he wakes up earlier than I'm used to but I'm not going to bed early enough to make up for it) and he was being particularly obstreperous at the time. 

Raggy's a terrific little pup at almost 10 weeks old but he's a handful... this morning though, he was a lovely peaceful little critter lying on my lap looking up at me while I brushed him; no nipping, some very gentle mouthing every now and then. The stages during a day are quite interesting.

He enjoyed puppy pre-school last night. He's a bit different from the way he is at home and gets incredibly distracted by all the other puppies and owners and smells and kind of loses his focus on the job at hand (or the job I want him to focus on) but I can't say I blame him since it's all so new and I'm very pleased he's happy to greet others and is confident and friendly (with some of the bigger puppies, he's more cautious but still wants to greet them).

Puppies are very cute and he brings me joy at different points every day but, having said that, it's wonderful that it's not a permanent state! For now I'm just looking forward to being able to take him on walks outside to broaden his horizons once he's had his second vaccination. 

Anyway, this thread is great and much appreciated. It's been reassuring to read all the stories. Thanks everyone


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## Chagall's mom

*Ragamuffin*, What you just added to this thread with your candid reality based post is certain to do a world of good for _ many_ poodle puppy owners for years to come. I sincerely want to thank YOU for that!:adore: Puppyhood does end. The way you handle it makes _all the difference in the world_ to your relationship with your poodle going forward. Ragamuffin is _very _lucky to have you for an owner.


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## Caniche

Oooh I might have some insight to this. We currently have 5 dogs under the age of 6 years old. Currently two of those dogs are puppies between four and five months old. We have been called crazy, nuts, suicidal, looney and many others. I don't regret a single moment. 

Ryker was my first poodle and our third dog in the house (the eldest, Sadie, a poodle mix has since passed). I read every book, magazine, article and website I could find. He was also our very first ever male dog (now we have 4 males and 1 female if that tells you anything). I brought him home in the middle of a snowstorm in December in western NY. And I trained him to go outside to go potty. And he weighed 1 lbs and 15 oz. Yeah. 

Despite all this, Ryker house trained quickly and easily. He was my first puppy that was *all* mine and I was working part time and going to college classes full time. I took him to work with me occasionally. He came from a BYB down the road (her house was very clean though and I know she cares about her puppies, but I've learned my lesson). I've been very lucky in that none of my puppies cry at night. My current two puppies sleep through the night all night since we brought them home. 

Ryker was never a chewer. Yet for some reason around his first birthday he chewed a hole through our new carpeting. We had to have the hole filled. Two weeks later he did it again. We then went on a shopping spree for chew-friendly items. 

Ryker is now 5 years old and had grade one luxating patellas (we reversed those bad boys!), cataracts at age 4 (fixed with surgery), irritable bowel syndrome and now some weird alopecia. He is horrible about eating and has to be hand fed. He walks on his front legs for fun sometimes. Despite his mouth being in excellent shape, he also has some bad breath. He also barks horribly on leash. He is my heart dog. 

Cash is currently 2 1/2 years old. He came from Pennsylvania in the middle of summer. The breeder was a show breeder who never returned my calls or emails and lied to be about his weight. I drove 3 hours each way to pick him up. He is the most tolerant of water. He has a chicken intolerance and used to vomit up food on my quilt in the middle of the night. I was more lax with him in the beginning with house training, but I finally forced myself to put him on a leash and really monitor him when he's not on a crate. He's housebroken now but every rare moment he'll have to go to the bathroom and will poop on the stairs in the middle of the night. Cash is terrified of everything and everyone - which we are working on. He has an amazing coat of curls. When Cash was with us less than a week, I was taking him outside and he leapt out of my arms. He wouldn't put his back left leg down. He screamed the whole way to the vet. Thankfully, there was no serious damage. 

Auguste and Tucker are the new puppies. A few weeks ago Auggie displayed signs of a possible seizure or episode. Two doctors, three blood draws and a urine test later and he was deemed fine. We're still monitoring closely. Tucker doesn't like to eat unless someone feeds him. Potty training is doubly as hard and exhausting. Oh, and Auggie likes to eat worms and I pulled a dead, dehydrated frog from his mouth yesterday. Yum.


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## ericwd9

Caniche said:


> Oooh I might have some insight to this. We currently have 5 dogs under the age of 6 years old. Currently two of those dogs are puppies between four and five months old. We have been called crazy, nuts, suicidal, looney and many others. I don't regret a single moment.
> 
> Ryker was my first poodle and our third dog in the house (the eldest, Sadie, a poodle mix has since passed). I read every book, magazine, article and website I could find. He was also our very first ever male dog (now we have 4 males and 1 female if that tells you anything). I brought him home in the middle of a snowstorm in December in western NY. And I trained him to go outside to go potty. And he weighed 1 lbs and 15 oz. Yeah.
> 
> Despite all this, Ryker house trained quickly and easily. He was my first puppy that was *all* mine and I was working part time and going to college classes full time. I took him to work with me occasionally. He came from a BYB down the road (her house was very clean though and I know she cares about her puppies, but I've learned my lesson). I've been very lucky in that none of my puppies cry at night. My current two puppies sleep through the night all night since we brought them home.
> 
> Ryker was never a chewer. Yet for some reason around his first birthday he chewed a hole through our new carpeting. We had to have the hole filled. Two weeks later he did it again. We then went on a shopping spree for chew-friendly items.
> 
> Ryker is now 5 years old and had grade one luxating patellas (we reversed those bad boys!), cataracts at age 4 (fixed with surgery), irritable bowel syndrome and now some weird alopecia. He is horrible about eating and has to be hand fed. He walks on his front legs for fun sometimes. Despite his mouth being in excellent shape, he also has some bad breath. He also barks horribly on leash. He is my heart dog.
> 
> Cash is currently 2 1/2 years old. He came from Pennsylvania in the middle of summer. The breeder was a show breeder who never returned my calls or emails and lied to be about his weight. I drove 3 hours each way to pick him up. He is the most tolerant of water. He has a chicken intolerance and used to vomit up food on my quilt in the middle of the night. I was more lax with him in the beginning with house training, but I finally forced myself to put him on a leash and really monitor him when he's not on a crate. He's housebroken now but every rare moment he'll have to go to the bathroom and will poop on the stairs in the middle of the night. Cash is terrified of everything and everyone - which we are working on. He has an amazing coat of curls. When Cash was with us less than a week, I was taking him outside and he leapt out of my arms. He wouldn't put his back left leg down. He screamed the whole way to the vet. Thankfully, there was no serious damage.
> 
> Auguste and Tucker are the new puppies. A few weeks ago Auggie displayed signs of a possible seizure or episode. Two doctors, three blood draws and a urine test later and he was deemed fine. We're still monitoring closely. Tucker doesn't like to eat unless someone feeds him. Potty training is doubly as hard and exhausting. Oh, and Auggie likes to eat worms and I pulled a dead, dehydrated frog from his mouth yesterday. Yum.


Why am I starting to get the idea that toys have a lot more health problems than spoos and mini's???

Maybe I only hear the bad stories and not the good ones?
Eric


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## Caniche

ericwd9 said:


> Why am I starting to get the idea that toys have a lot more health problems than spoos and mini's???
> 
> Maybe I only hear the bad stories and not the good ones?
> Eric



Smaller dogs tend to have finicky digestive tracts and can vomit or have diarrhea more frequently. Bigger dogs you have to worry more about bloat certain diseases. 

To be fair, I have two poodles from BYB, one only being slightly more "established" than the others. The head tilt/seizure thing is likely due to an upset stomach that messed up his equilibrium. Smaller dogs also have the fear and concern of hypoglycemia. Little dogs also tend to have dental issues if their teeth and mouths aren't tended to. 

I really don't think that one size is healthier than others, although from what I've read miniatures tend to have the longest life spans. Ryker is a bad example of a healthy dog. The -GOOD- news is that all of Ryker's issues are easily fixed. Many are not so lucky.


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## Ragamuffin

Chagall's mom said:


> *Ragamuffin*, What you just added to this thread with your candid reality based post is certain to do a world of good for _ many_ poodle puppy owners for years to come. I sincerely want to thank YOU for that!:adore: Puppyhood does end. The way you handle it makes _all the difference in the world_ to your relationship with your poodle going forward. Ragamuffin is _very _lucky to have you for an owner.


Thanks for the reassuring words, Chagall's mom. It's very nice of you ...


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## Ragamuffin

An update on puppy reality and the little monster (who I secretly adore)

Housetraining: He has a real preference for going outside I think (he spends a lot of time out there with us) but we have an indoor toilet for overnight and when he is on his own inside if we are away for a few hours. Toilet Mark I was a reasonably deep plastic container with kitty litter and then artificial turf on top; about the size of a large baking tray. It's fair to say it wasn't working all that well as I was getting really puzzled by the fact that there were large pools of urine collecting underneath the container rather than inside. I even wondered whether the plastic tub we'd got was leaking. Eventually I saw him one evening as I passed by his pen - he went up to the toilet, hopped his front paws into it and then peed directly onto the lino. Mystery solved - he was peeing outside the toilet. I saw him do it one other time (again just front paws inside) and realised it was the way he pretty much always did it. 

So, I tried to think about why he was doing it the way he was since it seemed like he thought it was the right thing since he was actually bothering to put his paws inside. I came to the conclusion that even though he's a great little hopper in and out and over objects when he's feeling active, when he's sleepy, his little legs are all wobbly and he really wants to do the simplest thing (hence the front paws only in the toilet). So we bought a new container. Toilet Mark II is quite a bit larger and almost level to the floor (just a lid of a large plastic storage container covered with artificial turf which I've cut out to fit the contours of the lid) and so far it is working quite a bit better - much more urine in the toilet... hooray. I'll be very happy when he's old enough for us to use a doggy door but until then this is an improvement. 

I'm beginning to think I might need to get up at night at least once or twice to let him out so that he doesn't get too reliant on eliminating indoors. What do others think?

One other story - he went for his first walk (Vet had okayed it) and I was hoping we'd meet a friendly dog. Within 3 minutes of arriving at the park, I saw a bouncy, happy looking young Cavalier King Charles Spaniel and thought 'perfect'. They hit it off immediately and had the most wonderful play - her owner was also really pleased as she said that normally the adult dogs don't want to play the way she does (she was only 6 months old).


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## PoodlePossessed

I was just trying to remember how long it took to house train my 2 year old standard. I honestly do not remember it. But the chewing I cannot forget. Windowsills and table legs still bear the scars. I lost a nice, 40 year old sofa to Pi's puppyhood. I cannot wait to do it all again! Who needs furniture?


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## West U

Lola was totally potty trained by 5 months, but she had her mentor Dash. She will be 2 years in March, she still chews on any pen, pencil, or pair of eyeglasses she can get her mouth on.


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## TStrainer

I have owned my spoo puppy for less than a week and I am already in awe of her! She was actually a surprise, I was going to get a Bouvier des Flandres and was on a list, but I was unhappy with the lack of communication from the breeder and at the last minute ended my relationship with him. I went to a breeder friend and explained that I did not want to be on a list, I don't care the breed as long as it was smart, energetic, and capable of doing agility. She suddenly realized that one of her best friends, a fellow breeder, had puppies available! Two phone calls later, I arranged a meeting and fell in love with this puppy. I've always loved poodles, always wanted one, and don't know how it never occurred to me to get one in the first place.

This puppy is everything that I wanted. They called her "laid back" and if this is laid back I don't want to know what her siblings are like! All she does is bounce and play and pull on my clothes and run around, I have to enforce nap times by crating or else she would never stop! Crating her has been an absolute breeze, nothing like my roommate's Keeshond who took about three weeks to teach after a full year of never going near the thing. Day four and she sits quietly while I go about my business.

Despite her being my first puppy as an adult, I am fully prepared for the struggle because I teach puppy kindergarten! I meet a lot of people who got puppies and became frustrated with normal puppy behavior like chewing and potty training struggles. I always tell them puppies are hard, so now I am going to practice what I preach 

I'm sure I'm going to encounter hits to my ego, nothing is this perfect!


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## Shamrockmommy

EVERY time I get a puppy I am miserable after a couple weeks in! LOL. And that lasts till they're about 2! LOL

And then they are wonderful dogs. 

I did learn, this last time with Jack to use the tether method. That was the key in teaching him to absolutely NOT pee in the house. Since I was so close to him, I was able to stop him from peeing or pooping before he could get much out, then take him out and praise when he finished. Learned very quickly that way. I even hooked him to the cupboard door in the kitchen right next to me when I was cooking. My eyes/ears on him at all times. Then, it was a maze of baby gates and closed doors, keeping him in just one room at a time. 

it's very time consuming. Now he's almost 3 and I trust him completely in the house. I do NOT miss the tether or the baby gates!

EVERY time I get a puppy I swear the next dog I'm getting is an older dog/retiree from a breeder, aged 2-4. 

We'll see what 'next time' brings, but thats a good decade off, likely. 

The thing to remember with all puppies. NEVER too much freedom.


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## JudyD

Although Blue has been perfect about relieving himself outside since he was 10 months old (he's now 22 months), I still have a tether around the leg of the dining room table for those rare instances when he can't settle down or behave quite as well as he should.


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## Ragamuffin

*5 months*

Well, our mini, Ragamuffin, is now 5 months old and things have improved dramatically since the days of mopping up urine and being nipped all over. He's housetrained and holds on overnight now (the first morning he did that I was so excited). He has adjusted to our routine and is a superb pup, so plucky and affectionate and friendly. He meets strange dogs and people every day and adjusts his behaviour to suit (more gentle with children, more 'adult' with large dogs, wildly exuberant with other young dogs) He is learning all the time and I am so impressed - what a great breed poodles are. 

So, to anyone out there who is struggling … hold on, it gets better! I definitely recommend crate or tether training (he's still tethered next to me while I work as otherwise he'll wander all over the house and that would only encourage him to get into all sorts of trouble ). Although amazingly, about a month ago, while we were out, he got out of his room and into the whole house… I was horrified when we got back to see the sliding doors had been opened. But he hadn't done much at all - he'd clearly slept on the sheepskin rug that he normally can't touch (although he hadn't moved it which he normally loves to do in vigorous fashion) and he'd chewed on my ipod which was on the ground but other than that he'd left the house and its contents untouched and had only used his indoor toilet. We were both quite amazed. I think he knew that getting out was pretty naughty - doing something bad on top of that might have landed him in real trouble and he thought he'd best avoid that. Maybe he was rewarding me for leaving him with a fair few treats to discover while we were out?  Who knows but it was great to see how far he'd come.

We did have one funny twist along the way about a month ago. I began to feel a bit paranoid that Raggy much preferred my husband as Raggy clearly adores him and was starting to not come to me or wag his tail and sending a fair few doleful glances my way. I was doing almost all the walking, cleaning, feeding and training and began to feel a bit sad that my beloved puppy seemed to be no longer all that taken with me. So I read a couple of forum posts on the topic of 'my puppy prefers my spouse' (as you do ) and someone just said (to someone else with a similar concern) 'Don't take it so personally, he's just a puppy.' I calmed down, had a good sleep and stopped taking his every mood personally. I worked out that because I was a bit short on time, doing all the other stuff, my husband was the main source of play (which he is fantastic at) and puppies love to play. So I found ways to play which I was good at (silly voices etc and running around and hide and seek) and voila, we're best mates again.


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## fjm

Thanks for such a helpful update and reminder that hard work in the puppy months pays off later, Ragamuffin. I had a lightbulb moment about the importance of having fun together too. I was trying so hard to get everything right - food, toiletting, training, socialising, exercise, and all the other stuff - that life got rather too serious for Sophy and me when she was a pup, with a definite lack of silliness. As soon as I realised I got down on the floor in a playbow - she was thrilled, and we still play silly games together every day.


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## Ragamuffin

fjm said:


> Thanks for such a helpful update and reminder that hard work in the puppy months pays off later, Ragamuffin. I had a lightbulb moment about the importance of having fun together too. I was trying so hard to get everything right - food, toiletting, training, socialising, exercise, and all the other stuff - that life got rather too serious for Sophy and me when she was a pup, with a definite lack of silliness. As soon as I realised I got down on the floor in a playbow - she was thrilled, and we still play silly games together every day.


Sounds like we've had very similar experiences! Silly games are such fun. I think it helps when the puppy starts to mature enough so that you have a bit more time to get your head clear.


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## Sanic

Thank you Ragamuffin. Right now Flynn is going to be 15 weeks old and while he has been such an amazing puppy, there are days where the biting can get overwhelming. I have marks and scratches all over my hands haha.

Yesterday Flynn went crazy while we were walking and kept trying to play tug-o-war with my pant leg. I eventually just picked him up (which earned me a rather loud, but playful, growl from him) and I sat down on a bench and made him relax for about 5 minutes. The rest of the walk went MUCH better.


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## thegirlsmom511

*Puppy reality - great topic*

This was such a great topic!!! Thank you guys so much for all of your replies. It's funny how we all have different perspectives and experiences of puppyhood. And as I embark on becoming a new puppy owner by the end of this month of a new spoo each one of you has given me something to think about. I am both nervous and excited. Two emotions that go hand in hand when you go into the unknown. 

Warm Regards,

Michelle


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## lily cd re

Good luck with your new spoo pup! Just remember we are only a click or two away if you need help.


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## sidewinder

I have read this thread over 2 or 3 times, and I plan on reading it again a couple of times before my (unborn) puppy comes home in June. It's been a long time since I raised a truly active big-dog puppy! 

The Scotties do not counter surf! And, in the set-up I had when I was breeding dogs (different house), they practically housebroke themselves, helped by the older dogs. Raising this pup will be different!


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## JMC3

Thank you for this thread! I wondered if I was the only one who had OMG moments after getting their puppy. I have not had a puppy in the house since my daughter was sixteen and she is 35 now. I had no idea-none-of what I was getting into. Everything I read was what a perfect dog poodles were etc...and I guess I though that that held true for when they were puppies also 

Cooper is 14 weeks, I think a little on the small side, very smart, does sleep in his crate all night now, loves to travel and never whines when we leave him in the car for short periods of time. My main problem w/ him is the leash. We live on a farm and there is no fenced back yard per se, so when we go outside it is always on a leash and it is always a tug of war. He grabs everything and tries to swallow it whole, and I mean everything. I cannot let him near the sheep or our pyrenees because he grabs any hair wads he finds before you can blink and tries to scarf them down, of course choking. It was a real fight trying to get them out of him mouth, and he even started growling at me when I did. I came on this forum looking for answers and started using your advise. Whenever he scarfs something in his mouth and does not "leave it" when I tell him to, or tries to bite me or growl when I take it out of his mouth, I immediately end our walk and back in the house he goes. I scold him at the time also. This has helped, along w/ my daily "leave it" clicker sessions, and making him earn everything by sitting first, but we are not totally there yet.

He has mastered our stairs, and is pretty much potty trained now. Have not had any accidents since the first 10 weeks, and only 3 total, but I am religious about taking him out to the same spot every time and often, every hour for the first two weeks we had him.

I am very much looking forward to obedience classes w/ him that start next week. Hopefully this too will help me w/ our leash issues. So again, thanks for the thread, it was what I needed today!


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## robby69

Potty trained at 10 weeks, or just taking him out so often he can't go? But still no accidents at 10 weeks no matter how often you do it remarkable.
He is still a baby.

Yes, highly recommend obedience training, as well as working with him at home after class.

Get a prong (pinch) collar. We have used them on all of our spoos. They look cruel (they are not by any means), and all of our spoos adapted after only one or two pinches (corrections). They seem to know that when the collar goes on, a fun thing happens (walks). If you don't at least try one, your walks will be a tug of war every time out. 

Our last obedience class they frowned on them, and make everything treat/reward based. They are much better than the "choke" collars. They never worked for us, and I think they can put too much pressure on the neck, unless used perfectly.

Our spoos like the indoors the best, but we to have a 20-ft tie out by the back door when we send them out to do their business. We do have to clear the area frequently, as one has an affinity for goose poop, and the other for deer poop. 

Our newest spoo is 8-months, and only know can I say she is fully potty trained. We take her out about every 4-5 hours now, and always after she eats (twice a day).

This is our second spoo that gets car sick.


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## JMC3

Thanks for the advice. I had read somewhere else on this forum a recommendation for the prong collar and I am going to look into it. I put him on a 16' leash sometimes so that he can run and get some good exercise while we are in our backyard and orchard area. He loves it outside. We also have a large fully fenced garden area w/ a chicken run and coup attached that I am going to start letting him loose in for a place to play. Now I only walk him down there on a leash so that I can be sure he does not chase the chickens etc...as they free range the garden area. So far he ignores them, which is good.

Cooper basically whines when he needs to go out. We have bells on the door that we ring everytime we take him out and he is just now starting to get that and has done it twice, but not consistently. He also has been sleeping almost through the night the last couple of weeks, only sometimes needing to go out once around 2 or 3am. I am most thankful for that. I thought I would never get any sleep for the first few weeks.

I am finding that patience and consistency is what is paying off so far, but it is exhausting trying to remember how to do everything right all the time.


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## lily cd re

Although I do have pinch collars for all of my dogs I do not use them to teach things. I use them to help the dog correct itself when they are consistently not doing something I have seen them do reliably. I have even put a pinch collar on my puppy so he knows how it feels to wear it. It has never been hooked to his leash. Although my boy is really good at checking in with me he also can decide to take off if he sees a highly intense distraction. I would not want him to pull that hard against a pinch collar. It would damage his trust in me.

robby69 I do use my pinch collars on my two older dogs if I am taking them to highly distracting environments together. The two of them weigh almost 140 pounds. The pinch collars do signal them to mind their manners for situations where clearly physical force from me won't be sufficient. I made sure they knew how to walk on a loose leash before I introduced pinch collars. With Javelin (now almost 11 months old) loose leash walking was taught first by having him off leash with me in my yard. I heavily rewarded his looking at me. Then I put a leash on and let him wander but stood still as soon as their was pressure on the leash. As soon as he reoriented towards me I rewarded his checking in. Then we took that on the front lawn. Then we took the same strategy out in our neighborhood. As soon as he feels tension on the leash he now knows to reorient towards me. When he takes the pressure off the leash I tell him good boy and we start moving again. Although he still doesn't do what I call heeling by any stretch of the imagination he is good enough at understanding that his leash has to have slack on it that I got an 85 in rally novice (where tight leashes are your biggest enemy) last week. The only reason he didn't score in the 90s was because we had an incorrect performance of one station (an automatic 10 points off). JMC3 be patient and consistent and it will pay off. Yes puppies are annoying and exhausting, but it will get better. In the meantime please don't use a pinch collar to "teach" your puppy. I would use a martingale collar.

You want your pup to trust you and to feel safe being close to you. That is the most important thing at this time. Develop your pup's centripetal attraction for you and help your pup to understand that checking in with you is good manners and will get rewards. Then you can teach loose leash walking and after that heeling. Once the dog really knows how to heel then you can think about whether you need the pinch collar. You are still teaching, so too soon for a pinch collar. If you ever need it have someone who has expertise in how to use it properly show you how to fit it and what to do with it.


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## JMC3

Thank you, that sounds like really good advice. I was planning on waiting till after I saw how the obedience school/training went anyway, but what you said makes sense as I really want Cooper to be "my dog" and trust me. Of course I want him to love my husband and kids and gkids etc...but I have never had a dog of my own, not even as a child and this is really important to me. I think that is why I have stressed so over doing everything right.


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## lily cd re

JMC3 said:


> Thank you, that sounds like really good advice. I was planning on waiting till after I saw how the obedience school/training went anyway, but what you said makes sense as I really want Cooper to be "my dog" and trust me. Of course I want him to love my husband and kids and gkids etc...but I have never had a dog of my own, not even as a child and this is really important to me. I think that is why I have stressed so over doing everything right.



You being stressed is information that goes straight down the leash to the dog. I am teaching a beginner class right now and the dogs are puppies that are now about 5 months old. One is a golden retriever and she is a handful. Her owner (who is probably well into her 60s) has found her puppy antics fairly exasperating. I have talked to her several times about not faking being happy and continuing to work since that is very confusing to most dogs. I have managed to convince her that things will really start to get better when she learns how to leave her stress outside. Things went much much better for her today and I could see that she was truly more at ease. This was what made today a good working day for her.


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## JudyD

You might try a Gentle Leader head halter in place of a prong collar. I used a prong collar initially but switched to the GL on the recommendation of a behaviorist and much prefer it.


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## JMC3

I know you are right. My husband has been telling me the same thing, and I am trying. I think I let my not wanting to "mess up" get in the way of enjoying the experience sometimes. I will keep working on this!!! Thank you!!!


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## lily cd re

JMC3 said:


> I know you are right. My husband has been telling me the same thing, and I am trying. I think I let my not wanting to "mess up" get in the way of enjoying the experience sometimes. I will keep working on this!!! Thank you!!!


I didn't allow myself much room to enjoy Lily and Peeves when they were young. They aggravated me and I aggravated them! Javelin has been a much easier puppy, mostly I think, because I have been much more forgiving about flubs, both his and mine. I was more relaxed so he has been more relaxed. Now that he is a terrible teen I can give him more meaningful corrections of his stupid moments and he doesn't get offended.


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## Tiny Poodles

lily cd re said:


> I didn't allow myself much room to enjoy Lily and Peeves when they were young. They aggravated me and I aggravated them! Javelin has been a much easier puppy, mostly I think, because I have been much more forgiving about flubs, both his and mine. I was more relaxed so he has been more relaxed. Now that he is a terrible teen I can give him more meaningful corrections of his stupid moments and he doesn't get offended.



And right there you may have put your finger on the difference between raising two puppies at once vs. one. Sure it can be done, but is it fun? I'd rather spread out the fun!


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## ericwd9

Tiny Poodles said:


> And right there you may have put your finger on the difference between raising two puppies at once vs. one. Sure it can be done, but is it fun? I'd rather spread out the fun!


Yes! I truly believe that two dogs are not necessarily twice the fun of one unless you have them one at a time. Same with children.
Eric


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## TrixieTreasure

ericwd9 said:


> Yes! I truly believe that two dogs are not necessarily twice the fun of one unless you have them one at a time. Same with children.
> Eric


I totally agree with that! I do like to raise two, 6 to 8 months apart, so that they will grow up together and hopefully be the best of friends.


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## Tiny Poodles

ericwd9 said:


> Yes! I truly believe that two dogs are not necessarily twice the fun of one unless you have them one at a time. Same with children.
> Eric



And it is twice as miserable, and twice as expensive to have two senior dogs at the same time.
Now that Timi is past two, I am open to a new puppy should the perfect one come along, but I would also be perfectly happy to wait a few more years and space them out even more. Between her older sister and spending plenty of time socializing at dog parks, I know that Timi would welcome a new puppy no matter how old she gets.


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## TrixieTreasure

robby69 said:


> Potty trained at 10 weeks, or just taking him out so often he can't go? But still no accidents at 10 weeks no matter how often you do it remarkable.
> He is still a baby.
> 
> Yes, highly recommend obedience training, as well as working with him at home after class.
> 
> Get a prong (pinch) collar. We have used them on all of our spoos. They look cruel (they are not by any means), and all of our spoos adapted after only one or two pinches (corrections). They seem to know that when the collar goes on, a fun thing happens (walks). If you don't at least try one, your walks will be a tug of war every time out.
> 
> Our last obedience class they frowned on them, and make everything treat/reward based. They are much better than the "choke" collars. They never worked for us, and I think they can put too much pressure on the neck, unless used perfectly.
> 
> Our spoos like the indoors the best, but we to have a 20-ft tie out by the back door when we send them out to do their business. We do have to clear the area frequently, as one has an affinity for goose poop, and the other for deer poop.
> 
> Our newest spoo is 8-months, and only know can I say she is fully potty trained. We take her out about every 4-5 hours now, and always after she eats (twice a day).
> 
> This is our second spoo that gets car sick.


My dogs ( except for Trina) were very easy to potty train. Took right around 7 to 8 months for them to fully be trained without any accidents inside. But yeah, after hearing ( and reading) about a lot of owners having problems, I did consider myself really lucky.


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## ericwd9

"I am open to a new puppy should the perfect one come along"
When you find "it" send it to me, please!!!
Eric


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## robby69

Our last senior spoo was 10.5 yrs old when we got a new puppy. I think at 10.5yrs old the older spoo was a little too old to be a mentor. Our now senior dog was 8 years old when we got the new puppy. The 8 year old adores the new puppy, and can't wait to play. Even when she tires out, she makes sure she has a front row seat to watch so she doesn't miss anything.


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## lily cd re

I actually think it was more about not having had a puppy in a long time and adjusting to living with BF and moving fallout all at the same time more than that there were two puppies at one time. Peeves will be a senior dog way sooner than Lily anyway.


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## MiniPoo

I got Phoenix when my male PWD was 3 years. That was fine until they were both seniors at 10 and 13 years and I got a puppy (Neeka) who bullied both of them and they both refused to play with her. No fun for any of the dogs or me having to protect the two older dogs.

I got Dakota when Neeka was 4 years and Phoenix 13 years. It has been hard on Phoenix but Neeka definitely wants to play with Dakota. I did not want to wait longer to get a puppy because Neeka wanted a playmate.

So based on my past experience, I prefer at least 4 or 5 years between dogs so that I do not have 2 geriatric dogs at the same time.


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## Tiny Poodles

ericwd9 said:


> "I am open to a new puppy should the perfect one come along"
> When you find "it" send it to me, please!!!
> Eric



Somehow I doubt that my "perfect puppy" would also be yours lol!
But isn't that one of the great things about the breed - there is a poodle to suit most anyone's lifestyle and preferences!


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## Tiny Poodles

MiniPoo said:


> I got Phoenix when my male PWD was 3 years. That was fine until they were both seniors at 10 and 13 years and I got a puppy (Neeka) who bullied both of them and they both refused to play with her. No fun for any of the dogs or me having to protect the two older dogs.
> 
> I got Dakota when Neeka was 4 years and Phoenix 13 years. It has been hard on Phoenix but Neeka definitely wants to play with Dakota. I did not want to wait longer to get a puppy because Neeka wanted a playmate.
> 
> So based on my past experience, I prefer at least 4 or 5 years between dogs so that I do not have 2 geriatric dogs at the same time.



I admit that I got super lucky that even though Tangee and Teaka were only six months apart in age, Tangee was my only 12 y/o senior, and Teaka was a 12 y/o puppy who was happy to have Timi to play with. Now I would rather stack the odds in my favor, and get as much time between Timi and the next puppy as possible. If I had my druthers, Iwould wait 5 years too, but as long as my wish list is, I know that when a puppy who meets it comes along, I have to grab her no matter what the timing.


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## MiniPoo

I think size can make a difference too in taking care of older dogs as well as the age of the owners. Taking care of 2 senior toys is a lot easier than taking care of 2 elderly dogs you cannot pick up.

It is very hard for me to get 55 lb Phoenix into the car since I cannot lift her. If she were to fall down outside and not be able to get up, I don't know what I would do if my husband were at work. Taking care of one or two elderly minis or toys would be more doable for me. For younger stronger folk, dog size is probably not an issue.


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## Streetcar

MiniPoo, I really need to put in place an action plan to cover my pets if/when a major earthquake occurs and I'm not able to get home right away. At one time I had some options, but need to rebuild....

In the same vein, I'm lucky to be able to lift my cat and dog. Were I not, maybe an on-call pet sitter or dog walker organization might be available? Some years back, I was given a business card by a man trying to start a pet vet taxi service. Maybe there are community options available in your area that could be available to you in emergencies if your husband couldn't get home in time?


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## Tiny Poodles

MiniPoo said:


> I think size can make a difference too in taking care of older dogs as well as the age of the owners. Taking care of 2 senior toys is a lot easier than taking care of 2 elderly dogs you cannot pick up.
> 
> It is very hard for me to get 55 lb Phoenix into the car since I cannot lift her. If she were to fall down outside and not be able to get up, I don't know what I would do if my husband were at work. Taking care of one or two elderly minis or toys would be more doable for me. For younger stronger folk, dog size is probably not an issue.



You are right. I have wondered if large dog owners sometimes are forced to let go of their seniors sooner than toy owners would just because the care issues are so much more difficult. It's very sad...


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## TrixieTreasure

JMC3 said:


> I know you are right. My husband has been telling me the same thing, and I am trying. I think I let my not wanting to "mess up" get in the way of enjoying the experience sometimes. I will keep working on this!!! Thank you!!!



Try to relax. If possible, just go with the flow of things. Everyone messes up from time to time. Even the most experienced owners mess up. Now, I'm sure there are owners out there who want everything just perfect for their dogs, and want to do everything a certain way. And that's fine, if that's how they want it. But to me, it's more important to live in the moment. Enjoy every minute of your baby, because time goes so fast, and before you know it, your baby won't be a "baby" anymore. Sit back and take in all that sweet puppy breath! ❤


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## TrixieTreasure

robby69 said:


> Our last senior spoo was 10.5 yrs old when we got a new puppy. I think at 10.5yrs old the older spoo was a little too old to be a mentor. Our now senior dog was 8 years old when we got the new puppy. The 8 year old adores the new puppy, and can't wait to play. Even when she tires out, she makes sure she has a front row seat to watch so she doesn't miss anything.


How adorable!

There's an ongoing discussion right now on one of my Poodle Facebook forums about getting a new dog ( a puppy), when there is a senior dog in the home. A lot of different opinions, but I think the one thing most people are agreeing on is, it's best not to bring in a new dog, if the senior dog is having health issues. It could stress the older dog out more.

On the other hand, everyone is also agreeing that having a younger dog in the home can help an old dog regain some playfulness, and it could be really beneficial.

When my cat was 15, people were telling me that it wouldn't be a good idea to bring a new kitten into the home because it might would stress the 15 year old out. Knowing my cat though, I thought it would be fine. And it was. She even played with the new kitten from time to time. Then when she was 17, I brought in another kitten. And it was also fine, with no problems. But if my old cat had had health problems, or would be jealous of a new kitten coming in, I wouldn't have done it until she was gone.

So it really depends on the older pet, and how well they would adjust to a new one in the home.


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## Myleen

fjm said:


> I think just about everyone on PF loves puppies - we love to share the excitement of the search for the perfect puppy, the wait for it to be old enough to come home, photos of babies with their Mum and in their new place, tales of ups and downs, puppy love and puppy naughtiness. But I wonder - especially in the light of recent posts by new owners finding the experience rather overwhelming - if we sometimes help to reinforce the myth of the Perfect Puppy: the one who sleeps happily in a crate all night from the start, is housetrained in a week of easy lessons, never chews anything except puppy toys, loves everyone, plays nicely with the cat and the children, trots beside you on a lead after just a couple of lessons...
> 
> I suspect most of us tend to forget just how much work raising a puppy can be (I know there are a number of members who have not forgotten, and only adopt adult dogs as a result!). Sleepless nights, piles of washing, children sobbing over nipped fingers or chewed up cherished toys, precious rugs soaked in urine, favourite plants dug up and scattered... and the unremitting demands of in and out for housetraining in all weathers, walking the tightrope of lots of finding lots of good socialising experiences while avoiding the risks of disease and other dangers, no social life worth talking about, and not even going to the loo alone. There are massive compensations, of course - happiness is a warm puppy, and a happy pup is a joy forever - but sometimes those compensations can seem a long time coming.
> 
> Were there times you thought "OMG, what have I done?!" And what helped you make it through?


Oh my this is soooo us (my husband, me and Toby) !!! ,,,,, I have not had a (puppy) or dog for 20 years!! What is helping us get through SO FAR... is first- my husband...not just physically being with Toby when I need a break, but by discussing his thoughts on situations to help me see other aspects of any issue. The virtual library!!! (Internet) where you find a special place like THIS FORUM where people discuss and help you by sharing their knowledge!!!! And of course TOBY!!! All he has to do is look at you with his beautiful puppy eyes...melt your heart, ... cuddle next to you....do summersaults on the sofa while chewing his bully stick:laugh:


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## janet6567

We got Abbey and Maggie when they were 3 months old because we couldn't decide which one to chose. . .and I convinced DH that they would be great company for each other. Because we are older and retired, we have been able to spend lots of time with these two. We only had one incident of Abbey chewing up my new sandals. They've always had lots of toys and thing that were OK to chew. Yes, they had a few accidents, but the breeder had already started the potty training and they learned quickly. Their antics and funny behavior together has been priceless and they have kept us entertained. We traveled frequently for 10 years with our 5th wheel all over the US and they are amazing little travelers. Being tpoos, I'm sure they are much less work than spoos, but we have had our moments. . .still, I wouldn't trade the 11 years we've had them for anything.

The picture is of Maggie with a mouthful of dried moss from one of my artificial trees. I had one in the living room and one in the master bedroom. Jim was gone hunting and the girls decided playing in the moss was fun. They made a mess in the living room and while I was cleaning it up, they went to the bedroom. Back and fourth they went and I kept finding and cleaning up messes. The picture was the 5th mess and I caught them "in the act" and really scolded them. They never did it again. I guess they just didn't realize they were being "naughty" until I scolded them. I love the look on Maggy's face. . .pure innocence!


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## janet6567

kmart said:


> I am sure I will kick myself for this later, but I WANT a rotten little puppy! I want a naughty, loud, destructive monster! I want to be up all night, I want to be outside every hour! I want my cats to think I've lost my mind!
> 
> If it means having a puppy, then I want it.


This post made me laugh out loud! And I understand the overwhelming desire to have a puppy. 

But be careful what you ask for. . .


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## Myleen

janet6567 said:


> This post made me laugh out loud! And I understand the overwhelming desire to have a puppy.
> 
> But be careful what you ask for. . .


hahahaha....this really is cute!


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## Myleen

Shellie said:


> When Maisy started doing zoomies around the living room for the first time! I grew up with a small poodle, so the sight of a big one zooming around my newly-renovated house got me pretty wide-eyed and nervous :afraid: What got me through was remembering all of the amazing moments I had with my heart dog, Missie, and knowing those same moments were just around the corner for me and my new dog, Maisy :love2:


Beautiful pictures of Maisy!!


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## Myleen

katbrat said:


> Lexi wasn't a hard puppy, or a puppy that pitched a fit in her crate, but she was a puppy.  A very busy puppy, so while we had no "on my goodness moment's" she kept us on our toes! Ate her crate pad twice, would carry her leash in her mouth on walks, which I thought was so adorable until I realized that she had chewed it up in the process. Mouthed anything and everything, rubber mulch was like puppy bubble gum, chewed a hole the size of a half dollar in my antique couch when she figured out how to get down the stairs herself(before that, it was "oh how cute!!!! She has figured out stairs!")and dh and ds didn't catch her first. Used to jump on all the cushions for said antique furniture, both chairs as well and push them off and then hop all over them. Used to hide under and in stuff while she was little and we searched high and low, calling her name as she stayed put. She loved her crate and we would cover the three sides to help her sleep. Realized that didn't work when she pulled the sheet in her crate and crewed holes in it. Left the window open in the bedroom for a nice cool breeze. That worked until she got tall enough to pull the tip of the curtain in her crate an chew on it. Ds, who was almost 18 when we brought Lexi home, laughed on day and said "How does it feel to be 48 with a toddler in the house!" Which described it to a tee! Oh, and puppy obedience class? The most exhausting hour of my week!


Oh my goodness!!! Thanks for sharing! A few times Toby got through into the living room area and raced around the furniture having a jolly time ...Boy does he love to run!! 
Your Ds comment is oh so true! Just like having a baby...need to watch them every moment!!!
Yeap, puppies are a lot of work, exhausting...but ohhhh so lovable!!!


----------



## Myleen

Naira said:


> Puppies can be crazy! I have a friend that has a baby less than 1 that is a handful and is actively searching for a German Shepard puppy. I've been trying to talk her out of it. Puppies are hard work, even the calmer puppies. They are cute, but behind the cuteness is a whole lot of sweat!
> 
> Especially if you're like me and it's just you and you alone. No one else to depend on to share the load. I don't recommend it unless you're seriously committed. And for those that have done 2 puppies at once...God bless you!


BEAUTIFUL DOG!!! 

Oh my...baby and puppy!! I couldn't do it!! Yes, I totally agree!! puppies are hard work! 
For myself, and Toby...I was/am committed. New I would be, ... and every day we tell each other how blessed we are to have him in our life.


----------



## Myleen

AutumnLover said:


> As a mom to a 10.5 week old spoo, I ask myself what did I sign myself up for every day. While Addie is adorable, and loves to cuddle on the couch, she can be an absolute terror. And I don't actually regret adopting her, boy is she more work that I thought and we are only 10 days in. While she can be sweet and mild during her off hours, when she turns on, there is no stopping her. Zoomies in the house, land shark to the extreme, inside or outside, jumping, chewing, puppy exuberance to the max. Her short attention span, in addition to her curiosity and energy make a wonderful puppy into a monster at times. On top of the energy, both my husband and I have a ton of the anxiety over trying to socialize, train, and protect her.
> 
> If I was raising her myself, I'm not sure I could do it. I am saved by a husband who is committed to not only helping pick up poo and feed her, but who can actually keep up with her energy. The amount of puppy energy that we expend every morning and night during our puppy romps takes both of us. I also thank all the advice I have found here, online and in books to help keep active and engaged.
> 
> But most importantly, I make an effort to remind myself during the cute puppies moments how much I do actually love the little ball of fur. When she is asleep on her bed, on top of her favorite toy of the hour, passed out, I actively note the good moment, rewarding myself silently (shhhhh don't wake the puppy) how much I anticipated getting a dog for the last 7 years. Both puppy and humans need positive reinforcement when it comes to surviving puppyhood ;-)


Ahhhh yes. We are sisters...Your story is so much alike as mine. I have a husband who is committed as well. Sure does help having someone help with the heavy load. 
Your statement of how much you actually love the little ball of fur made me smile


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## Myleen

Bizzeemamanj said:


> I had several "what have I done!?!" moments when Cooper was a puppy, especially in the first six weeks he was home. He is my first dog, so I was SUPER naive about the amount of work that goes into raising a puppy correctly. It is work. Every. Single. Day. Not for a week. Not for a month. Not for a season. Forever. But boy does all that work pay off when you see your puppy grow into such a wonderful companion.
> 
> After about 6 weeks with Cooper, I had a bit of a breakdown with my girlfriend over my "terror" of a pup. She laughed and said - he's a totally normal puppy. She went on to add - don't forget! All puppies are selfish @ssholes! They're cute, but total @ssholes.
> 
> It made me laugh because it's sort of true. There are these moments of sheer joy with puppies, but also moments of wanting to pull your hair out. You have to stick with it because all the patience, persistence and love you put into a puppy really does get returned 100 fold when they mature. That makes it all worthwhile.


:laugh: .... patience, persistence and love...


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## Myleen

PoodleFoster said:


> Hello
> I have mentioned this before, but as a poodle rescuer, having a foster dog come into our home is LIKE having a puppy. Nearly every time a needy foster dog arrives, I think 'what have I done? Can I rehabilitate this dog?" I have no idea what the personality is going to be. Will he/she play? Is he/she aggressive, especially on groom table? How much effort is it going to be to potty train this dog? Is he/she going to eat? Kennel training, here we go again! Sleepless nights (just a few), spay/neuter surgery risks, compatibility to our dogs, Leash training...
> 
> I can honestly say we have fostered over 40 dogs and all were wonderful house pets when it was their time to go to permanent homes. All kennel trained, leash trained, properly fed (pounds gained, pounds lost), on a strict schedule, accustomed to grooming and socialized. This comes at a complete loss of sleep, time invested and hours of rehabilitation. They were all worth it, every one.
> 
> How did we make it through over 40 times? The families who graciously went thru the adoption process, who came out on the other side smiling, the first meeting of their new pet. The photographs I took of that very first introduction, THAT is what keeps me going.
> 
> PS. TO those of you who have adopted a rescue dog, PLEASE keep your foster/rescue apprised of your new pet. A short email, a photo, an update means so much to us who loved your pet first! It's those words of a dog's new life that really keep rescue going. It means a LOT to us.


wow...  Kudos to you!!! 40! That is commitment ...that is love
!


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## Pamela

I feel the same way !!!!!!!


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## poofs

My puppy is not eating the required amount of food and doesn't like most of the training treats I got her.

Finally I found some freeze dried treats I can use to reward wanted behavior.

This pickiness is frustrating.

I'm doing my best to be on top of everything I can control, but you just can't control what your dog wants to eat or not eat.

Hopefully she will grow out of this? :argh:


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## Shamrockmommy

Sometimes they grow out of pickiness, sometimes they don't. With Jack, he was picky and skinny from the get-go. He does love to work for bits of STRING CHEESE. It is the bomb. He will do anything to get some! 

I did give up on dry food, and he gets canned food. I don't mind that, but he's small.


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## JMC3

*Puppy not eating*

I mix a tablespoon of Stoneyfield yogurt, or cottage cheese in w/ Cooper's food
and he loves it. I do buy quality dry dog food then add the above. The yogurt is really good for their sensitive stomachs so it is a win win. I also add frozen sliced 
fat meat off a roast etc...or cooked rice, mashed potatoes etc...and he has gained weight nicely but is not overweight. 

Hope this helps


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## fjm

poofs said:


> My puppy is not eating the required amount of food and doesn't like most of the training treats I got her.


She may be teething and have a sore mouth - have you tried soft treats like cheese, or cooked chicken, or even a lick of baby food?


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## Tiny Poodles

Are you free feeding or giving meals? I always found that free feeding lead to low appetite and thin dogs. Timi is the first dog that I have done meals with in many years, and it just the best - she will eat anything, anytime, anywhere, and I have full control of her eight and nutrition - it is heavenly!


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## poofs

I'm continuing what my breeder was feeding, Eukanuba + yogurt.

I can't free feed her because my male cat is a glutton and I don't want him getting fat.

Her schedule with me is 1/4c kibble + 1tsp yogurt at breakfast, lunch, and supper. She is eating at least half at each meal, never all of it, and she doesn't like "left overs".

My breeder sent me a few NuVet supplements, I went ahead and ordered a bottle because I want to make sure she is getting all the nutrition she needs. I do have to force feed them, it's not a traumatic experience for the pup- plus I figure it's good to get her used to it in case I need to force feed medication in the future.

I ordered some Vital Essentials mini nibs entree (read complete nutrition), they arrived in the mail yesterday, and she likes them. I'll use them for training instead of the incomplete freeze dried treats I was using (chicken breast, liver, tripe). Holy Moly that VE stuff is expensive! $28 for a 1lb bag of food!!


ETA: I have not tried cheese.


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## poofs

I forgot to add important information.

She is 10 weeks old and weighs 5.2lbs.

Eukanuba says she should be eating 1.5c.

This evening she ate about 6 pieces of kibble out of the 1/4c of small breed puppy, so, barely anything.

I'm going crazy with worry.


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## twyla

You just got your puppy, my Beatrice was very excited in the first weeks she came home food was not top on the list of things to do, playing, exploring everything else was more exciting. Just give it time, so long as she is active and bouncy don't worry so much the guidelines on the aside of the bag always seems like way too much.


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## poofs

Thanks, twyla, I was hoping someone would say that.


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## bigpoodleperson

I agree that I wouldn't worry too much unless she is acting sick.

My puppy refused to eat the food he came home from the breeders with (purina proplan puppy). I gave him some of the new food (Fromm large breed puppy) and that is like Gold to him! He will do anything for it! 
Maybe try a different food. It is probably just her, but worth a shot.


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## Tiny Poodles

I think you are fine as long as she eats something, but I agree that you might try another food - there are lots better foods than eukanuba. Also, I don't know the calorie count for that brand, but that seems like an awful lot for her size...


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## Kassie

Puppies grow up. Just like human toddlers. I'm heading into teenage years with my daughter. I have a new puppy. I'm screwed. No matter how I look at it. But the puppy will grow a brain sooner than my almost teen daughter. Patience is the lesson. The rewards are great. So I breathe. And I breathe again. My older dogs are great. It is timing. I would never get two pups - not ever again- at the same time. That is a lesson learned. So I breathe. And when I snuzzle the pup, oh it's a treasure. I can't snuzzle my daughter, she'd think I'm nuts. So I am a closet snuzzler Of my "oh so naughty" pup. He will grow and be there when the older dogs pass on. And my almost 13-year old daughter, only God can help me now!


Sent with Tapatalk


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## Alika

This is such a great thread. I thought I'd contribute a little... for posterity.

I've been told I have a pretty easy puppy. But, you know, she's still tougher than an adult dog. She'll be 12 weeks old tomorrow. I keep reading threads about how other puppies never had an accident after the first day, but we still have accidents in the house a couple of times per week. It's getting easier, but we're still a long ways away from "house broken". I hope the accidents dry up to one per week or less pretty soon... my big bottle of Nature's Miracle is starting to run a little low.

Puppy zoomies can also be hard. I have found that since I was prepared for it, it hasn't been all that bad... most of the time. But no matter how much you prepare yourself and how well you are handling it, one night you might just want to relax and not "puppy" (may I use "puppy" as a verb?), but your puppy has other ideas. 

This happened to me yesterday. I work very part time, and usually when I'm not home my husband's schedule allows him to be. But once in awhile we work the same shift. The kids to go their grandpa's and the puppy stays in the crate all day. I'm fortunate in that I have a job that allows me to check in every couple of hours and send my puppy to the potty. I've also done a good job of crate training her. So yesterday she pottied right on time, got a little exercise, then went back into the crate with no crying or barking.

But I came home tired and not in a great mood and what I had was a puppy who had been locked in a crate all day who just wanted to run and jump and play and bite and be crazy. And it was tough to deal with. So be aware: if you're planning on being away from home all day and coming home to your puppy, he may be at his craziest right when you're at your sleepiest.

It'll all be worth it in the end, though. I think we're going to end up with a very nice dog. I work at a shelter and I see a lot of dogs with pretty severe behavioral problems. I feel like most of them just didn't get the training and socialization they needed as pups. So we will forge on ahead so that one day our pup will be a really nice dog. That will be nice for us and for everyone else. And if one day circumstances change and, heaven forbid, we ever have to rehome her, it will be easier for her to find a good home... because we spent time on her as a puppy and she grew into the type of dog that any family would be lucky to have.


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## Sammy the spoo

Today I come back to this thread because I need to read this and get extra patient with my puppy's high energy. My energy level and kids + dog's energy levels are at the opposite ends of the spectrum, and I'm finding it difficult. Thank you for this thread - I'm going to breathe and ride the wave of this puppyhood, dreaming of the dog Sammy will be in a couple of years

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## lily cd re

There have definitely been roller coaster puppy days with my three too, but it will be worth it in the end. Hang in there with Sammy and I am sure your family will be all the richer for the memories of his crazy puppy antics once you are looking at them in the rear view mirror.


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## Knutdanoodle

I couldn't imagine having kids and a puppy, but I know one day it will collide. Ha, I was going to talk about the craziness of pups but now it would feel like whining in comparison to some of these tales. I'll say the teenage time is actually more frustrating to me than the puppy hood was though, shes more destructive and pulls in the leash more, and the previous correction methods don't work now that she's older (which really was food motivation, squeak toys, raising voice, etc). -.- 

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## Sammy the spoo

lily cd re said:


> There have definitely been roller coaster puppy days with my three too, but it will be worth it in the end. Hang in there with Sammy and I am sure your family will be all the richer for the memories of his crazy puppy antics once you are looking at them in the rear view mirror.


Thank you Lily for your encouragement. It was definitely the case of so many things (overexcited Sammy at walk because he saw his favourite dog friend, car breaking, kids home for the summer, just to name a few...) stacked in one day. It was so inspiring to re-read this thread. You guys have been amazing in giving me ideas and training techniques! So thank you, thank you, thank you! Now I go for my first pack walk for the day (Sammy et al hehe)

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## BombLOLita

Amusing stories :lol:
Quick question though - what is Land Shark?
I regret googeling it  :bashful:


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## fjm

Think puppy creeping rapidly towards you, jaws snapping, wickedly gleaming eyes - Land Shark! (Now I daren't google it - I have already had a few Google shocks in the last few days while looking for completely innocent things, and will never be able to get out of my head what I saw when looking for a special gadget my sister wanted to cut bark into strips for basket making. She said it was called a leather stripper...)


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## BombLOLita

fjm said:


> Think puppy creeping rapidly towards you, jaws snapping, wickedly gleaming eyes - Land Shark! (Now I daren't google it - I have already had a few Google shocks in the last few days while looking for completely innocent things, and will never be able to get out of my head what I saw when looking for a special gadget my sister wanted to cut bark into strips for basket making. She said it was called a leather stripper...)


Thank you!
Lol - yes don't google it...let's just say I found no sneaking puppy reference :ahhhhh:.


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## Granberry

Kassie said:


> Puppies grow up. Just like human toddlers.


And unlike human children, puppies turn into teenagers then adults then elderly dogs in a relatively short span of time. So I try to enjoy the moments I can as much as I can because we don't have as many years to enjoy the dogs as we do the children (Lord willing). 

I'm reading this thread again because DH has given the green light for me to get my puppy. I went to my sister's the other day and played with her Labradoodle (who is a hoot...she can stand up and open their doors...my sister says, "it's a whole new world when your dog can open doors and walk in on you". lol). After that, I kind of decided against a standard poodle, or at least from the breeder I had selected because hers measure about 24" to 28" tall. I'm just not sure I'm ready for that much dog! So I'm researching and shopping...must remember that there will be occasions when the shopping and waiting will be more fun than the actual puppy! This thread is a good reminder!


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## Knutdanoodle

Granberry, my pup was opening our doors when she was still a runt. I think she learned at 3 months. About as big as a mini

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## Granberry

Knutdanoodle said:


> Granberry, my pup was opening our doors when she was still a runt. I think she learned at 3 months. About as big as a mini
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


Haha, oh my, that must have been quite a trick to watch!


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## Knutdanoodle

Yeah, it was right after we taught her how to push the lever on her slow feed bowl. Then she watched us open the doors and would jump up and hit the handle and burst through the doors. Puppers are resourceful, even the little guys are!

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## snow0160

*Fantastic Thread*

This is a fantastic thread and has helped me tremendously to know I am not going through it alone. Lucky is approaching 7 months and I would concur that he is breaking all the rules I've taught him earlier. Even with his CGC, his heel goes completely out the window when he sees other big dogs. He also learned to play tag and chase recently. Took me 20 min to chase him down at an off leash park. So far, still no accidents in the house.


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## lily cd re

Let's remember that most puppies just need loose leash, not great heeling so don't be too particular about those expectations, just about having puppy stay in tune with you and not be dragging you towards other dogs and things that are taking attention away from you. Heeling and loose leash are very different things.

And for anyone whose puppy is playing tag/keep away with you you may want to rethink places like dog parks where the pup can get away with running away and being able to think it is a big fun game. If a dog or puppy is running around to stay from being collected by you for even two minutes, let alone longer then IMO said dog has not earned the privilege of being off leash. Lily is the only one of my dogs who ever get to spend much (and at that really very rare) time at an off leash dog park since she is spayed and both my boys are intact (and therefore not welcomed). If I call her she returns immediately and knows better than to play tag with me.

I realize that for many an off leash dog park is a surrogate for having a large enough fenced yard space, but I think settings like that require better attention than most. They are not the place to teach attentiveness and recalls, but perhaps better as a place to proof them once the dog can handle levels of distraction that one is likely to find there.


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## KBMeredith

Can anyone recommend a pet insurance company that isn't too expensive? Not looking to be reimbursed for routine care, but in case of catastrophic illness (Lord forbid!!) would like coverage.


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## KBMeredith

When will puppy need his first grooming? I know I need to brush and handle so he's comfortable with it, but at about what age should I take him to a groomer? Thanks so much! What would I do without this forum??!!?


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## fjm

I can't help with US insurance comparisons, but in the UK it is worth considering the solidity of the company, as well as the cover/premium balance. One insurance provider left the market a few years ago after promising lifetime cover - many, many people were left unable to afford to ensure their animals because of what were now pre-existing conditions. If you search for "insurance" you will find discussions of peoples' experiences with the various companies.

On grooming - little and often as soon as possible. His breeder should have already done at least one nose, toes and tail trim, but if not start as soon as he has had a chance to settle in with you. Find a groomer who will do just as much as he can cope with, and not push him past his limit. Your aim is to set him up for a lifetime of relaxed grooming, not to have the perfect groom first time. You can help by keeping him very well brushed, and by getting him used to the sound and feel of a clipper or shaver near his skin - lots more advice in the grooming threads.


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## SammyG

KBMeredith said:


> Can anyone recommend a pet insurance company that isn't too expensive? Not looking to be reimbursed for routine care, but in case of catastrophic illness (Lord forbid!!) would like coverage.


I signed up with Figo Insurance. They offered the lowest premium and 100% coverage. Next one on the list was HealthyPaws, good insurance, was about $15/month higher with 90% coverage. People also recommend Pet Plan a lot. It is good insurance, but the quote I got was almost 2.5 times the Figo. Quotes will depend a lot on zipcode and pet's age.


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## zooeysmom

I am so enjoying what an agreeable puppy Frosty is. I hope things don't change too much when he becomes a teenager  He is my easiest dog at the moment.


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## KBMeredith

*Pup reverse pottying*

So we got our 9 week old puppy about a week ago..so now 10!weeks old. Love him to death and he's healthy and happy. But the house training? Worse daily. He can play outside with us reminding him to potty for 30 minutes. Won't go. Walk in and potty in the house. He will not go potty outside except when I take him out after bedtime in the middle of the night. Then he will quickly potty and we're back to bed. Sheer joy for someone who has to get up at 5:30'for work (retired hubby so puppy will be attended most of most days). When we go out he won't leave the porch unless we pick him up and set him in the yard. I think maybe he hears dogs in other yards barking and it scares him. But how oh how do I fix this? We try keeping him in his playpen or crate unless he's on our laps or playing. But e will be running for his ball, slow down to pee and keep running. He can't live in a crate!!! He's got to get out to play! Ideas please or at least encouragement?! Auugh!!!


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## zooeysmom

When you take him outside, don't say "go potty" until he actually is going potty. I know it can be frustrating with some pups, but wait until he goes before bringing him in! Lots of praise for going outside, and a treat. If he's scared to leave the porch, carry him down. Help him to feel safe and like he can count on you to support him. If he potties inside, whisk him outside to finish. He's still super young and accidents should be expected. Try not to worry about it. I went through case of pee pads, a couple of cases of paper towels, and a bottle of vinegar with Frosty already, but he has only had one accident this week--tonight at his puppy social (he is 16.5 wks. old).


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## marialydia

Ten weeks is still a little baby, and he hardly has any awareness of his functions, much less ability to control them. This will come fast, though, and in a matter of weeks things will be much better. (But longer than that for rock solid training!)

Stay consistent, try as hard as you can to keep him outside each time until he goes, and do as zooeysmom says -- use your "go potty" words and treat immediately. (I have different words for peeing and pooping.) 

Your porch steps may be difficult for him, as well, depending on how steep and how many. 

The crate is a good thing; not sure about the "playpen" for such a young pup. If there's enough room to get away from it, he'll pee and run from it, as you've seen. If the weather is mild enough, suggest alternating outdoor playtime and crate time at least for a couple of weeks. Puppies do need their sleep, too!

Whoops: just checked and see this is a toy poodle. He's small, no doubt the porch stairs are way too daunting. If you are thinking of pee pads anyway, this is the time to teach him about them...I will say if I ever have smaller dogs again, I will certainly use them (as well as outside) as they would be great for inclement weather, hurricanes, snowstorms, etc. etc.


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## Click-N-Treat

Congratulations, it's boy. OK, it's a baby boy with a lot of hair, floppy ears, and a tail, but still a baby boy. Sometimes, I think we do young puppies a disservice by calling them puppies and not baby dogs. Try to remember that a young puppy is an infant. It's an infant of a different species, but still an infant. Infants wear diapers for a reason. Running after a ball and peeing at the same time is what babies do. Your puppy is too young to have bladder control, that will come with age. And getting no sleep is part of being a new parent, too. 

At this age, you need paper towels. Lots, and lots, and lots, and lots of paper towels. And a good sense of humor. Your infant dog doesn't even know he's peeing 1/2 of the time. The muscles aren't there yet. They'll grow, I promise. Keep taking the puppy out every half hour, and praise while your pup is peeing outside. 

And Zooeysmom is right, when you see the puppy pee, whisk him outside. Hopefully he'll finish outside so you can praise him. And comfort your baby dog outside. Tell him you'll protect him from anything scary. 

And congratulations. Enjoy your puppy.


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## KBMeredith

Thanks so much for the kind words and encouragement. We are now at I guess 11 or 12 weeks and trying so hard to follow advice and stay patient. What I call a porch is actually a covered patio,so three inches to the ground..he easily manages it. I can keep him out for over an hour with no action, but when we go in he runs to another room and poops. I try holding him and reassuring him when a nearby dog barks but he won't willingly set foot on the ground once he hears them (yard is wood fenced but that doesn't seem to reassure him.) He still just stops in mid ball chase to pee. He doesn't go potty in his kennel and almost never in his playpen (never pooped in there and rarely pees). I wonder if I need to have him spend more time in the pen or kennel? How much time is enough? I feel bad about confining him but seem to get that advice when I try to research. Is he old enough yet to get the idea, or still,too,young, do,you think? Thanks again!! You are lifesavers!


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## Lori G

KB, our pups are about the same age. Kailani was born 9/20. I was having similar situation as you until I started more crate time, on a regular "schedule" throughout the day. And she is never further than a few feet from me. If I need to shower, cook dinner, etc., she goes in the crate. And then each time she gets out of the crate she goes outside immediately. She is always leashed outside. With the added regular crate times, she is calmer overall and more on a schedule. I think too much play time was making her overstimulated, and she was like a toddler who needed a nap--getting into trouble. LOL


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## LittleAussiePoodle

Hendrix was a nightmare when he was younger. We couldn't leave him loose in the house for five minutes without peeing, pooping, chewing, dragging, knocking, crazed playing, zoomies, ect. It was bonkers.
In fact, I still have to make sure all bedroom doors are shut at all times, he has a thing for underwear and socks. He still drags things around sometimes, but he is now very well house trained and he never chews anything. He isn't allowed on the couch, and even when we're not in the house he never gets up on it.
I hate seeing people who go buy puppies on a whim. They are a lot of hard work. Yes, they are cute, but especially higher energy and drive breeds are basically a year to three years of hard, hard work, supervision, training, controlled exercise, and a fine balance of toiletting times.


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## Laumau

Omg, I'm in the middle of it right now and am feeling almost post partum right now. It's so similar to when I had my kids. I'm over the moon with delight at my "baby" one minute and then feeling almost trapped and depressed the next. It's a roller coaster all right- and I know it's worth it. Just trying to enjoy it as much as I can.


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## zooeysmom

Laumau said:


> Omg, I'm in the middle of it right now and am feeling almost post partum right now. It's so similar to when I had my kids. I'm over the moon with delight at my "baby" one minute and then feeling almost trapped and depressed the next. It's a roller coaster all right- and I know it's worth it. Just trying to enjoy it as much as I can.


I went through that exact feeling with both of my poodles. At least you know it's a temporary phase and there will be one day where you realize you can't live without him. Frosty is not even 5 months old, and I can't imagine my life without him now


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## Sammy the spoo

Laumau - yes I felt the same when I brought Sammy home. And I still do some days. He just turned 10 months old. But I look back and he can do so much more than when he came home with us. It helps me that DH keeps telling me that I have brought him up this far and he tells me that sometimes I have too high of an expectation at his age . Otherwise I feel like I'm in this endless loop of "what am I doing wrong?". Hugs!!! And one day at a time, just like kids


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## lily cd re

There are times when it is really hard to enjoy a puppy and his or her antics, but remember that just like with your human children there will be days you think you have ruined them, but the next day will be wonderful. Unless you have no clue or drop them on their heads over and over again the good days will outweigh the bad moments in terms of how your pup turns out as a grown up dog, just like with children.


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## Laumau

Sammy the spoo said:


> Laumau - yes I felt the same when I brought Sammy home. And I still do some days. He just turned 10 months old. But I look back and he can do so much more than when he came home with us. It helps me that DH keeps telling me that I have brought him up this far and he tells me that sometimes I have too high of an expectation at his age . Otherwise I feel like I'm in this endless loop of "what am I doing wrong?". Hugs!!! And one day at a time, just like kids


Yes, I do feel like I'm in that loop, for sure. Thanks for the encouragement. It helps so much. :angel:


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## Laumau

lily cd re said:


> There are times when it is really hard to enjoy a puppy and his or her antics, but remember that just like with your human children there will be days you think you have ruined them, but the next day will be wonderful. Unless you have no clue or drop them on their heads over and over again the good days will outweigh the bad moments in terms of how your pup turns out as a grown up dog, just like with children.


Thanks so much. I need to keep your words in mind. And stop dropping Benji on his head so much! lol :loco::lol:


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## LittleAussiePoodle

Sammy the spoo, I have that same problem!
Some days I can't help but wonder what I'm doing wrong, and feel like Hendrix is behind for his age. I recently saw a video of a dog doing a frisbee flip turn and some other tricks Henny can do and it really gave me confidence.
I saw sloppy cues and a confused dog who wandered away and wasn't focused at all, and realised that this 5 year old "movie star dog" border collie wasn't even as well behaved or well trained as my barely 1 year old psycho poodle!
I think it's important to put things into perspective. I remember back when Hendrix had been with me for a month and his only tricks were taking 20 minutes to find a spot to pee and sitting, and it helps me see that we have come a long way. 
Sure, his recall isn't amazing and he still gets really easily distracted, but he can stay 50 feet away from me while I run and jump and yell, he can do all these wonderful tricks, he heels, and best of all:
We have bonded.


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## Sammy the spoo

LittleAussiePoodle - hehe Hendrix is an amazing dog and in my opinion you are doing so well!!! I take so much notes from your youtube, and I think "boy, Sammy can't do half of what Hendrix can do". So I take notes, for example, like your rock solid stay and try it . 

I love the part you say about how the best thing Hendrix could do at one point was sniff the grass for 20 minutes and pee. YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!! I forgot about that . Thank you for reminding me that. I needed it


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## KBMeredith

Lori you are going to Heaven. This helped so much! Our pooch is getting better and better and your suggestions really made a difference. Thank you!!


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## KBMeredith

Just FYI I did not buy a cute puppy on a whim so please don't hate me. Thanks


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## KBMeredith

so right. Lots like a new human baby hahha


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## Red lippy mel

I'm reading these testimonials like...it's just like human babies!!! And I've got 5!!!!???
Yes I know what we're in for. That's why we aren't getting our puppy till no:5 is out of nappies and in kindergarten so I have time for another baby...quite literally. 
Lucky 2 of 5 are grown ups...?


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## Tiny Poodles

Red lippy mel said:


> I'm reading these testimonials like...it's just like human babies!!! And I've got 5!!!!???
> 
> Yes I know what we're in for. That's why we aren't getting our puppy till no:5 is out of nappies and in kindergarten so I have time for another baby...quite literally.
> 
> Lucky 2 of 5 are grown ups...?



Oh but sometimes you get lucky - my latest puppy, now 9 months old has been a breeze - I was all geared up for the struggle, thinking "ok, this is my very last time, I am getting too old for this", and she turned out to be the easiest puppy ever, I would take another one like her in a heartbeat!


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## lily cd re

Tiny I know your baby girl is great and has been super easy. I am not sure I would call that luck, I think there is skill and experience behind that, but I want to add that if someone isn't sure they can handle a puppy or that how things will go really is going to depend on luck they need to think carefully. One of my current novice students is older and has three dogs (all poodles, 2 standards, one mini). The youngest one is a spoo girl about Javvy's age. She is a handful for the owner who finds her to be too aggressive at home in playing with the other dogs. She is going to try using a basket muzzle with her for the yard, since I do think the dog is smart and has potential, but she has also said she would consider rehoming her if things don't improve.


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## Tiny Poodles

lily cd re said:


> Tiny I know your baby girl is great and has been super easy. I am not sure I would call that luck, I think there is skill and experience behind that, but I want to add that if someone isn't sure they can handle a puppy or that how things will go really is going to depend on luck they need to think carefully. One of my current novice students is older and has three dogs (all poodles, 2 standards, one mini). The youngest one is a spoo girl about Javvy's age. She is a handful for the owner who finds her to be too aggressive at home in playing with the other dogs. She is going to try using a basket muzzle with her for the yard, since I do think the dog is smart and has potential, but she has also said she would consider rehoming her if things don't improve.



Well if there is any skill and experience behind it, I would say that it is my experience in knowing just what traits comprise a really great dog for me, being able to communicate that to my breeder, and her experience and skills in choosing a puppy for me that was precisely that. The luck part was that all of those traits happened to appear in a puppy that was also the color, size, and sex that I wanted. But Trulee really did walk in the door with the behaviors that took me a couple of years to cultivate in Timi, so that is why I call it lucky! About the only thing that I had to use some skills to work on with Trulee was acclimating her to grooming, and with her possessing the correct temperament traits, that transition happened surprisingly rapidly ?


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## Toy Mama

Wow! I really needed to read this thread today. I’ve had my toy poodle puppy, Wilby, for two and a half weeks now. He’s 11 weeks old.

He really is a little bundle of snuggles and I do love him so much, but caring for him is so much more exhausting and overwhelming than I imagined. I sometimes wish I could have a break just for 24 hours to catch up on sleep and just have some ‘me time’. I broke down and cried for about half an hour this afternoon after he was crazy barking in his car seat and all the ignoring in the world didn't seem to make a difference. It all just seemed too much. 

It's so encouraging to hear I'm not the only one and things will get better.


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## mashaphan

yep,good to know I am not alone in this ! My last 2 whippets were adults,the golberian retusky had always lived outside,though she was just 4 months old (and i suspect she was really an angel sent to stop my downward spiral after the sudden death of my heartdog)-I had not had a "puppy" since 1999,and not a poodle puppy since I was 12! I just keep repeating 'we will get through this" and when Otter looks at me sadly and tucks his head in the crook of my arm, i say "well,you're not so bad,and you WILL get over this "..and then I will miss the puppy foolishness...some of it.

Martha and Saphire Lutra Patronus,and his very tired brother Che-Whippet.


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## Scarlet

Okay, I'll just vent here for a second.

My new pup is now 9 weeks old and has been home for exactly a week. For the first couple of days, I thought something was wrong because she really didn't even walk much.

Ever since then? It's been NON. STOP. 

Crate training has been very hard because she screams in there ALL night long. She barks and yelps and gets very loud, and doesn't stop - even though I am right next to her and she stares at me as she screams. So, no sleep here, going on 6 nights now. 

During the day, we're home with her (thankfully we work from home), and she must be confined for some hours for us to get some work done... she screams her head off then, too. The minute we let her out she wants to nap, even if it's outside to potty... it's like she says, "Thank goodness you let me out, I was so tired and couldn't get a minute of sleep in that stupid crate!"

If she's freshly pottied, we play with her... but she is SO hard to play with because the only things she wants in her mouth, are things she should have in there. Rugs, curtains, blankets, sofa, chair, shoes, laces, our hands, my hair, my dress, pants... anything that isn't a chewtoy (which keep getting stuffed in her mouth by us, and she refuses to take).

It's only been a week. I know it gets harder from here... and I am already feeling at my wit's end. 

I'm spending time training her with each of her meals, she looks me in the eyes now where before she wouldn't even look up at my face... and she knows to sit before coming out of her crate or coming in the house, we're working on fetching which she does pretty well... tug of war, attention games - and she does do well, I have to give her credit. 

But the other 90% of the time? I really feel like my head's about to explode! 

Really hoping the rest of her puppyhood isn't going to be even harder than this as people tend to say... because I don't know how much more of it I can take, even at this level of insanity and even though it's really only been a week. :afraid::afraid::afraid:

Whew. I feel better to have gotten that out. Off to rescue the hubby who's been trying to keep her engaged while I typed this out... thanks for being here for us!


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## twyla

take a breath you will get past this

the crate is your friend

puppy needs to take breaks to wind down whether she wants it, she needs it

Also puppy needs to learn to amuse herself, learn that it's okay to be alone , a kong and chew sticks helped me out with that.


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## Scarlet

twyla said:


> take a breath you will get past this
> 
> the crate is your friend
> 
> puppy needs to take breaks to wind down whether she wants it, she needs it
> 
> Also puppy needs to learn to amuse herself, learn that it's okay to be alone , a kong and chew sticks helped me out with that.


Thank you, twyla! She has chew sticks and 3 kinds of Kongs, she's only interested in the Kongs when she is OUT of her crate. When she's in there, she ignores them completely. 

I'm hoping as she gets older, she may develop enough of an interest in them to where she'll be interested in them even when in her crate. Of course I'm also hoping that I'll sleep once again, at some point in the future... lol!


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## twyla

You have to be strong and let her work through being by herself. Admittedly my first pup just abour broke me with her screaming, I knuckled under too soon so I never taught her to be by herself, she was my first puppy. 

I learned from that


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## lily cd re

Scarlet you have to tough it out with the crate. Does your baby have interesting stuff in the Kongs when she is in the crate? Kibble with maybe a little extra tasty something to get her to interact with it. Also there may be other things than Kongs that she would like better. None of my dogs has ever had any interest at all in Kongs, but they all dearly love any toys from WestPaw Designs. There are rubber chew toys that can be stuffed with kibble or treats and soft toys that are amazingly indestructible even for out German Shepherd dog who is a notorious destroyer of soft toys. As another thought maybe you should cover her crate so it feels more den like to her. Also maybe try putting an old t shirt with your scent on it in the crate with her as a comfort object.


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## Scarlet

lily cd re said:


> Scarlet you have to tough it out with the crate. Does your baby have interesting stuff in the Kongs when she is in the crate? Kibble with maybe a little extra tasty something to get her to interact with it. Also there may be other things than Kongs that she would like better. None of my dogs has ever had any interest at all in Kongs, but they all dearly love any toys from WestPaw Designs. There are rubber chew toys that can be stuffed with kibble or treats and soft toys that are amazingly indestructible even for out German Shepherd dog who is a notorious destroyer of soft toys. As another thought maybe you should cover her crate so it feels more den like to her. Also maybe try putting an old t shirt with your scent on it in the crate with her as a comfort object.


Thank you very much for your advice, Catherine! We actually have a WestPaw topple, and she does like that - but only when she's out of her crate. We stuff it with freeze dried liver and tripe, both of which she adores. When it's in her crate, she ignores it for hours. As soon as she's out, she'll happily take it - but I try not to give it to her unless she's going in her crate. 

Her crate is covered... leaving one side uncovered so she sees us, or covering it fully with a blanket, doesn't seem to be making any difference. 

Now we have a new dilemma -- she doesn't stop peeing! 

We took her out to potty, which she did... brought home what we thought was an empty puppy, and about 5 minutes later, she peed on a rug. While I was cleaning the rug, she squatted down 6 feet away from me and peed on the floor. So I dropped everything and took her out again, she pooped and peed outside. Brought her in, finished cleaning, sat down to play with her... and guess what? That's right, she peed again!

I just put her in her crate because I don't know if she'll just continue to pee every two minutes. And of course she's absolutely screaming in there right now, a good 15 minutes now. I plan to wait another 15 minutes, then try taking her outside to potty again. 

At this moment, I'm seriously not sure how people do this. I've had puppies before but don't remember it being THIS hard to raise them. Feeling a little insane for having made this decision at the moment... guess I'm just the world's worst puppy parent. :bawling:

PLEASE tell me it gets easier?! And WHEN? I need a light at the end of the tunnel...


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## zooeysmom

Scarlet said:


> Now we have a new dilemma -- she doesn't stop peeing!
> 
> We took her out to potty, which she did... brought home what we thought was an empty puppy, and about 5 minutes later, she peed on a rug. While I was cleaning the rug, she squatted down 6 feet away from me and peed on the floor. So I dropped everything and took her out again, she pooped and peed outside. Brought her in, finished cleaning, sat down to play with her... and guess what? That's right, she peed again!
> 
> I just put her in her crate because I don't know if she'll just continue to pee every two minutes. And of course she's absolutely screaming in there right now, a good 15 minutes now. I plan to wait another 15 minutes, then try taking her outside to potty again.
> 
> At this moment, I'm seriously not sure how people do this. I've had puppies before but don't remember it being THIS hard to raise them. Feeling a little insane for having made this decision at the moment... guess I'm just the world's worst puppy parent. :bawling:
> 
> PLEASE tell me it gets easier?! And WHEN? I need a light at the end of the tunnel...



That sounds like pretty excessive peeing. I'd take her to the vet if that frequency continues tomorrow. 

Where there's light at the end of the tunnel...hmm, with Maizie it took 2 years, but she was much improved by age 1. For Frosty, after a few weeks, he became easier. Then he hit adolescence and is giving me some challenges with marking. But by the time he's neutered, he'll be perfect, I suspect. I think the first few weeks with a new spoo are the most challenging. Hang in there.


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## fjm

I am going to make an outrageous suggestion - stop trying to crate train her for a while. I would set up a pen instead for when you need to leave her confined, with a pee pad and a comfy bed. It sounds as if the crate already has negative associations for her, which are getting worse rather than better. If it works for you, take her to bed with you - put a waterproof backed picnic blanket over the bed if you fear accidents, but I found puppy wiggles always woke me up in time. Once you have all caught up on sleep you can think about teaching her that the crate is a pleasant, safe place, using Crate Games or something similar. 

If the constant peeing continues I would definitely get her checked by your vet - could it be down to drinking more after some particularly dry or salty food? Certain treats affect my dogs that way.


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## lily cd re

An ex pen might be a great solution fjm. When Javelin came home he was miserable in the crate. I was working on toughing it out with him with limited success and then I took Lily to a trial over the 2nd or 3rd weekend he was home and left him with Peeves and BF. BF couldn't deal with not sleeping since he works on Saturdays, so Friday night he took him out and put him on the bed (which is high enough that it functioned like a pen). Everybody had a good night's sleep. By the time I got home that was the routine and it stayed that way. Once Javvy was big enough to get off the bed himself he used to just go sleep on the cool tiles near the front door. He virtually never peed or pooed in the house though. He has always had great potty habits. 

The crazy peeing could be from anxiety or it could be from something the vet should take a look at. Try the ex pen and see if that improves the crying and the peeing.

It will get better. As I say Javelin was a miraculously easy puppy (aside from failing the crate) from the get go and Lily and Peeves both got a lot easier after they hit about 9 - 10 months old (but remember we were dealing with 2 pups at the same time).


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## Scarlet

You all are like a lifeline to me right now, seriously!! 

She was a little quieter in her crate last night than she's been previously, I was able to get a good 4 hours of sleep which honestly felt heavenly... lol! So, I'm hoping she may be starting to get used to it? Or she was just so exhausted that she decided to deal with it for a night to save up some energy for tonight? Time will tell!

Okay, so I basically have to prepare for a tough year, and hopefully it gets easier from there. Hopefully it flies by. There's something I don't normally want -- for time to go faster.... ha!!

We do have a lot of exciting things to anticipate. I am meeting with the VP of the local AKC on Tuesday, she breeds SPOOs and has agreed to help me teach this little girl to stack (we're considering Conformation, this is something her breeder is encouraging me to do), as well as provide me with some good references as far as local trainers go (she judges Obedience, so is a wealth of knowledge). 

I'm looking forward to learning from her. Also hoping that with all of the support systems in place (between you guys, the local AKC branch, and the Poodle Club here I'm being encouraged to join), we may survive this puppyhood eventually. 

Thank you so much for being here!


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## zooeysmom

Sounds like an amazing support system, Scarlet! You got this


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## Liz

There's a video called Crate Games by Susan Garrett that you may find helpful. Here's a 



 of someone working through the lessons. You may find better videos.


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## Zirallan

I'm one of those who doesn't like puppies and avoids them. However when my big dog died and it became known that I was looking for a new one, someone gave me a 4 month old labrador saying either I take it or they would drop it at the local shelter which has a very high kill rate. I took the dog and should have turned around and instantly rehomed it and kept looking for the dog I really wanted but I'm not unfamiliar with the breed and I thought I could probably use her (I have ptsd and some physical limitations). Looking through the paperwork I received with her, I found that she had been in 4 homes before mine. Her 5th home in 4 months. She was, thankfully, potty trained. 

Chicken has severe separation anxiety. Thanks to the work of one of her previous owners, attempting to crate train her to minimize damage to herself or the house is too traumatic a task for me to want to undertake for fear that she'll injure herself on her own crate. It took weeks for her to not freak out if I uncovered the wire crate I use as a rabbit pen. At a few days past a year old, she still counter surfs. At 75 pounds she easily reaches to the back of the sink to take dishes placed in it. Being stuck in the kitchen garbage can is a regular occurrence. She'll eat anything that isn't bolted down (food or otherwise). She has a habit of jumping up and licking my glasses, but only if I stand still in a certain room for more than about 15 seconds. That one popped up out of no where a couple months ago along with a resurgence of jumping on me (though not anyone else).

Just when I begin to regret keeping this big yellow ball of problem, my daughter comes home from her fathers and Chicken instantly forgets that anything else exists. They play in the mud and hose in the yard, delighting in leaving muddy footprints on the white tile throughout the house. My 4 year old 'reads' to the dog she swears to hate due to its rambunctious ways. They camp out on the couch and watch cartoons. Disliked food flows freely from child to dog whenever they think it might go unnoticed. They sleep side by side. All my thoughts of finding the dog yet another home, or even turning her into my service dog, vanish before the love and devotion the big, previously unwanted dog has for my young daughter.


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## Sara0810

Shellie said:


> When Maisy started doing zoomies around the living room for the first time! I grew up with a small poodle, so the sight of a big one zooming around my newly-renovated house got me pretty wide-eyed and nervous :afraid: What got me through was remembering all of the amazing moments I had with my heart dog, Missie, and knowing those same moments were just around the corner for me and my new dog, Maisy :love2:




Aww


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cello56

Thank you everyone for this post. It has been amazingly reassuring! 

Molly is our first Standard Poodle. Prior to this, for the past 12 years we have had four retired racing Greyhounds - so basically couch potatoes, and an English Springer Spaniel for 14 years before that. 

We got Molly when she was 4.5 months old, and she is now 7.5 months. It has been 26 years since we have had a puppy, and retired racing Greyhounds come pretty much 'pre-trained'. So I would really appreciate it if you all could tell me if Molly is on track, or if the she is not. 

*Positives:*

Molly has slept in her crate at night, all night long, since the day we got her. She wakes up around 6:30 am to go potty, but then will snuggle in bed with me until 7:00 or 7:30.

Molly has been happy in her crate when we go out since the beginning. We are up to being able to leave her for 6.5 hours if necessary. No accidents. 

Molly is potty trained. She hasn't had an accident in the house since the day my one gallon jug of Urine Off arrived from Amazon! Seriously, she has been trained since about 6.5 months. She stands in front of us and barks and barks and barks when she has to go out. Wish she would learn to use the bells at the door, but this gets the message across. 

She eats like a champ. Waits patiently outside the laundry room door while I fill her food bowl, then when invited in gets right down to eating. This is a new skill our trainer taught us.

Molly waits at all doors for us to exit/enter first and then invite her out/in. This is a new skill that she has just learned. 

She can sit on command and drop. She can wait a short time. 

She will now sit quietly behind the gate in the laundry room (opens right into our kitchen) when people arrive. She used to bounce like a pogo stick and bark up a storm, so this is a new behavior we have been working on. 

She can walk nicely on a loose leash when wearing a training collar. 

So all in all Molly is doing pretty well on these skills. Since Central Florida is having a major breakout of Canine Influenza, her first session of Obedience Classes were cancelled. We hired a dog behaviour trainer to come and give us a couple of lessons in the meantime, and she has pretty much learned the door and other behaviors. However .....

*Negative Behaviors:*

Biting. We are so over being used as a chew stick! We give her objects to chew, toys to play with, puzzles to solve, and yet she still gets us with her teeth. It is much better than it used to be, but should this behavior have ended by now? She doesn't draw blood or anything, and it is never ever malicious, more raking her teeth over our hands and arms.

Stealing. Socks, paper - pretty much anything she can get her mouth on. Her favorite is the Grandbaby's binkie! We try to diligently keep everything out of her reach but sometimes we fail. 

Chasing. When caught stealing - she runs through the house with her prize. The tactics our trainer has taught us have been helpful, and we get her to drop her prize, but it is still frustrating.

Lizard catching. She is scary fast! She catches them and then carries them around in her mouth. Doesn't seem to want to eat or even play with them - just to 'have' them. Again, the trainer has given us tactics to get her to drop them eventually, but sometimes not fast enough for the lizard. It bothers me greatly that she is hurting another being - even if it is natural.

Barking. Sometimes, especially in the evening, she just stands there and barks at us. She doesn't have to go potty, she has water, toys, things to chew. We try to ignore her, holding pillows in front of our faces so she can't see us helps most times and she eventually stops. Often we just remove her from the family room if she can't behave.

So .... my question for all of you experienced Standard Poodle people - IS MOLLY NORMAL? Are these behaviors - good and bad - typical and appropriate for a 7.5 month old puppy? If these are just normal behavioural stages of development, then no problem, we will get through it! If these are behaviors that are worrisome, then we will need to address them right away. 
Thankfully our local obedience school is resuming lessons at the beginning of August, so Molly will start her basic obedience classes then. 

Thank you for all your opinions. Sorry this has been so long! We just want to help Molly to be the very best pet that she can be. 

Carol Ann.


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## fjm

She sounds pretty normal to me, cello56, but I do have a few questions. How much exercise does she get, both physical and mental? And how long do you leave her during the day? The barking in the evening in particular sounds as if it could be due to boredom - "Get up and entertain me!". Poodles need much more exercise and stimulation than the average greyhound - they really need to work their brains as well as their bodies. If you have not already done so I would build several sessions of fun training games into your daily routine, as well as mentally stimulating sniff walks, scent games, etc, etc.


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## lily cd re

Molly sounds pretty normal to me too! I hear you on the mouthiness as being annoying since Javelin still can be pretty teeth on (vs. hands on) sometimes, but never with malicious intent. I agree with fjm about upping her exercise, but urge you to make as much of it mental exercise as possible. The working brain is a huge consumer of energy, so working her brain will make her more tired than just running around. The other spectacular outcome of brain work is that nearly all of of does really tremendous relationship building which leads to better attention to you which helps the dog develop impulse control which leads to telling dog to stop using teeth actually working.


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## galofpink

I am no poodle pro - we just got our first spoo pup this year. Shae is about 5 mos and is a little bit behind your girl on a few things, so I would say you are on track and Molly is normal. 

Ditto what fjm and lily cd re say; make sure she is well brain-exercised. On our busier days when we don't have the usual time to do a lot of training, Shae is much more rambunctious, bark-y, pesky and is a bigger thief. I try to work at least two 1/2 hour dedicated to training only session (am and pm using her meal) into our day and add outside play, fetch, etc. on top.


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## cello56

You guys are awesome! Molly had her trainer here this afternoon just after I posted to this thread. When we told him how she was doing, the first suggestion he had was additional mental stimulation! Guess great minds think alike! He gave us some suggestions for activities along with additional guidance on some of the other issues we were having. He keeps telling us how great Molly is, and how incredibly smart she is. DH and I kept thinking he was nuts, but now we realize that it has been more of a 'user error' issue on our part, and 
not a Molly issue! We will learn and so will she! Thanks again!

P.S. How much longer do you think Molly will continue to grow in height? At 7.5 months she is 22 inches at the withers, and 41 pounds.


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## Mfmst

http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/13694-found-great-height-weight-chart-puppies.html


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## twyla

Having a puppy is work

With Puppy number four I am a little better prepared and yet not. Leonard is a sweetheart and a happy confident boy but he isn't used to being left alone. He just wants to be with his person, bit anxious when I leave him.

This how it's going so far

Saturday
Cried in the carrier on the hour trip home.

Cried in carrier on the way to vet, it was dark I don't think he liked it.

He wasn't keen on eating I hand fed him his food.

First night he cried a lot woke me, when he was crated for the night, five times fussing so, but no accidents in the crate, peed three of the five times that I took wordless took him out and put him into the X-pen to potty, returning him to the crate after 15 minutes.

Sunday

We hung out

Mealtimes
Leonard still wasn't keen on eating, I primed him with the raw that was sent home with me.

First meal I hand fed entirely

Second meal I primed and but fed part raw and dry with Leonard sitting in my lap

third meal primed with a pieces of dry kibble Leonard ate sitting next to me 

Pottying every couple hours I would pop Leonard into his X-pen to relieve himself other wise he was tethered to me. 

Sunday night - Leonard only woke me once to pee and whined twice but quickly settled when I reassured and hushed him.


Monday

I pottied him in his X-pen upon waking, pee poo on pad

Breakfast I gave him his raw portion which after a few moments eat sitting next to me. 

I took Leonard to work with me

He happily greeted my co-workers asking for pets generally bounding around. No fear at all though he did prefer to snuggle in my lap and follow me about.

Lunch I primed him a tasty bit or two of the raw, which he finished eating on the floor about two feet away from me.

Leonard didn't potty at all when I was at work

He whined a bit on the way home until the car warmed up, can't blame him there.

I put him in the X-pen when I got home, he peed all over his front legs and poo-ed on the pee pad

Dinner Leonard ate two feet away from me

we did two sessions of alone time when I got home, first so I could eat undisturbed second just because, he did whine but I only fetched him when he was quiet.


Progress in my book

I am happy he is starting to eat and drink regularly, the rest will come

Leonard is 19 weeks old and left everything he knew, I was told his routine but it didn't matter, everything is new, his sister isn't here only a strange new person and strange new dogs.

All and all I think he is doing well, we'll get there


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## twyla

I am 4 1/2 days in with my toy boy, he is so good in many ways but drives me bat crap crazy in other ways.

He absolutely does not being alone, but then again he never has been his breeder did say he was needy in this respect. He whines so during alone time, but he is so much better in the crate because he can see me and this is now our routine. 

Last night I had a Christmas party to go to and I penned him with Beatrice and Pia and he was fine.

He is busy, and excited about everything feeding is a bit of trial , not interested because there is *insert whatever is going on*, I've brought with me to work all week, where has a wonderful time socializing or just chilling, believe or not no potty accidents. 

On top of all this Miss Pia tested positive for Giardia( oh Pia my poo eater), so everyone is getting treated for it. So Leonard is taking Panacur and is also teething.


Not keen on his harness

Not keen on sweater or sweatshirts that keep him warm, bothered by collars. He chews on them


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## Dechi

@Twyla Leonard is the same age as Beckie was when I got her. Leonard is a lot better than she was with pottying and sleeping at night.

Things are getting better with her now, it’s been almost 3 months. Now she knows the routine very well and enjoyrs it. So hang in there, those toys do mature fast.


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## twyla

:smile:Thanks Dechi, I know this will pass but I wanted to share as marvelous as Leonard is, he is still work


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## barbiespoodle

I think I went through a late life crisis, that's the only thing I can think of as to why I'm putting myself through this. 

First I go to the county animal shelter and haul home a 9 month old aeirdale/hellhound cross. It didn't take long to see why he ended up at the pound. I had brought a large, powerful, hyperactive, mouthy, destructive, demon into my nice quiet life. Believe it or not, I'm not even exaggerating. It was not a easy time and we still have a few issues, but under it all was a very intelligent, good natured, loving dog, I just had to bring that side of him out. 

So 9 months later when I'm just starting to get my nice quiet life back, I go and get a 3 month old spoo and start the whole mess over again. Compared to Eustace, Roland has been a dream, but he still is a pup with all the trouble that comes with having a pup. At least this time I'll be starting with a clean slate and Roland will be trained properly instead of having to fix the mess Eustace's former owners made of him. 

Well at least Roland has the cute card to play when I get frustrated with him, poor Eustace didn't even have that when I got him. The only thing that kept Eustace in his happy home is that I knew in my heart there was a good dog under it all and wasn't going to give up until I found that good dog.


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## West U

Great laugh with my morning coffee. You are a good person.


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## kontiki

nifty said:


> Then, inevitably a corner is turned and one unwanted behavior after another begins to disappear - while one wanted behavior after another begins to pop up regularly. YAY!


Wow, yes to that!

This whole thread is making me remember those first months. Hilarious that my first reaction was 'what problems'? I literally had to stop and think about it

I had searched a long time for a Service Dog prospect, so wanted to be able to train as well as I could so there wouldn't have to be too much retraining. 

I loved him (still do!) so much that I ended up making almost all of his training an affectionate game. So he loves it.

He was 13 weeks and my breeder said the first thing to train was not to jump on me (or others) . He learned that in a day, and then I also taught him To jump on me so that he knew the difference and would be able to do that if I needed it for part of his Service Dog training, which I did later. I was traveling in a tiny trailer so it was sort of like both of us living in a big crate. It sure made it easy to keep track of him! 

We hired the best trainer we could find three days later since I wasn't that experienced at the time and wanted to be trained well myself to train. (I am still learning). She was an awesome help, and kept saying that she was going to have to get a poodle herself as he was so easy to train. For months even after I was home I could call her for suggestions. By now I have even worked with Turid Rugaas for a weekend! 'Calming Signals' was one of the first books I used.

I had sworn I would never let a dog sleep in my bed. Well, that went out the window by the 2nd day! He still does.

I had been a widow exactly one year to the day he came to me. His mom chose me actually. Apparently she normally didn't make up to people but kept pushing him out of the way insisting I pet her. They were so startled at that he suddenly was mine. I had gone to visit the breeder and possibly get on a wait list for a future puppy. Jeepers, this is making me teary eyed just remembering.

However he is 9, and I would like to find a 1 or 2 year old to train as a service dog to take over. I probably should have started a year or so ago. But he is so lively I keep forgetting he is not a puppy

Cheers to everyone here who love their awesome poodles so!


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## zarak003

*Wow*

I came here looking for information, and boy do I feel informed!

I will be a first-time owner and training (with professional help/classes) the dog to be a SD. I hope.

I have been looking at breeders versus shelters, and my biggest fear with breeders is starting with a puppy, considering my complete inexperience! If I were living in my own place, it would be a different story, as I'm fairly laid back, and don't own many treasured items. But, I live in my family's house. I've been reading this thread, and trying to imagine how I could possibly prevent an adorable, fluffy whirlwind of destruction and poop/pee from destroying my parent's beloved sofas and clean carpets. . . . I can't imagine them staying calm with a screaming, crated puppy in the room above theirs. I can't imagine them remaining calm thru 4 months of potty-training -- honestly this would probably be the most challenging for them. 

They agreed to a dog for pSD help, but I don't know if they could handle living in the same house with a baby dog. o_o

Thanks for all the stories and information, everyone. I may start a separate thread asking you all for more stories and specifics. X)


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## kontiki

zarak003 said:


> I live in my family's house. I've been reading this thread, and trying to imagine how I could possibly prevent an adorable, fluffy whirlwind of destruction and poop/pee from destroying my parent's beloved sofas and clean carpets. . . .
> 
> I can't imagine them staying calm with a screaming, crated puppy in the room above theirs.


My Spoo as a pup never had one instant of "screaming, crated puppy". I trained him to absolutely love going in his crate and being there. I have only asked him to go there 3 times in 9 years. (Once when we had rowdy company, once when there was an uncontrollable dog visiting, once when workers might have stepped on him.) The other times he has gone totally by his choice, usually several times a day.

If you are following any trainer that has these results, it is not a trainer I would ever use.

Ditto for any 'whirlwind of destruction'.


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## zarak003

@kontiki, It's comforting to read your experience differs from what I was reading on the forum -- my post came from summarizing and combining some of the previous posts on this thread. Although, I should have put in landshark in there to make it a comprehensive summary. 

I truly hope raising a puppy will be possible here, especially with help.

I'm still at the meeting-trainers-stage, so I've yet to receive any pearls-of-wisdom (or otherwise) from one.


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## kontiki

Hi Zara, 
It sounds like you will need to learn a huge amount about training before taking on the task of training a SD. Even with the best prospective dog, and the owner being a great trainer already, it is only about a 50% chance of an owner trained dog becoming a successful SD. Is there a reason for not going through a program?


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## Click-N-Treat

Another service dog handler here. I agree that unless your trainer has experience with SD's, and you work with the trainer before you get a dog, you might find yourself in over your head. Many aspects of training an SD are different from training a pet. If you can go through a program, that could be a better option. If not, search hard for a trainer and learn as much as possible about training dogs ahead of time.


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## zarak003

Unfortunately, you are both 100% correct. Owner training a service dog is currently inconceivably beyond my skill level. I have a pipe dream of finding a trainer in driving range that could help me overcome this. 

Unfortunately I fall into the odd category of being a legal adult, and a civilian (non-veteran) with PTSD. This excludes me (or makes me less perceptibly 'in-need' in applications?) from many of the PSD programs I have researched and the few I've directly contacted.

If you or others have program suggestions and/or further thoughts, I'd be incredibly appreciative; I can create a new thread if preferable, respond to one of your creation, or am up to IMs, to avoid further derailing the thread x).


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## lily cd re

Well for one thing I would not count on a rescued dog to be likely to succeed with SD training. Any dog in a shelter or rescue has some reason for having been in need of re-homing and can itself have the canine equivalent of PTSD.


As to screaming in the crate and all of those other things they are not always going to happen, but you have to know what to do to avoid such issues. If your parents are really not going to tolerate the things that do go along with a puppy (and they do make mistakes usually because we make mistakes) then is it really fair for them to have that imposition placed on them and their home?


Understand that most trainers who would work with you one on one are not necessarily likely to know the ins and outs of SD training. With you never having raised a puppy and not being able (seemingly) to use an agency to get a started dog the slope of the mountain you will have to climb is very very steep. About the only good suggestion I have for you on finding a trainer is to use the search tool of the APDT and look for someone who is CPDT-KA certified.


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## zarak003

Thank you for the insight; this thread and your responses truly were beneficial, even if they were not what I hoped to hear.


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## lily cd re

zarak003 said:


> Thank you for the insight; this thread and your responses truly were beneficial, even if they were not what I hoped to hear. ?



I understand that what I had to offer were not likely to be what you wanted to hear, but I think it is better to be candid and if possible based on one's own experience offer up what needs to be said rather than reassuring people of what they want to hear.



It isn't that I think what you hope for is a unicorn wish, but close to it and it will be better for you, your parents and your future dog being able to work for you to go in with your eyes wide open. I do wish you success and patience to find the right situation. I cannot imagine what horror you must have endured to have PTSD from a civilian life experience. I can barely say that I understand with a straight face.


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## Stephjames512

*help with puppy sleeping at night*

Our puppy is about to turn 14 weeks and he's getting us up quite a bit at night to be taken out. every hour or two and usually one longer stretch that is usually only 4 hours or 5 if we are lucky. Does this sound normal? We are so tired!


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## fjm

You may get more responses if you start a new thread, Steph. 14 weeks is still very young, but most pups manage from late night to early morning with just one break, or even none, provided nothing happens to wake them up. As soon as they are awake they tend to need to go. And, of course, it can then become a bit of a habit. Assuming there is nothing physically wrong (if he is also peeing very frequently during the day or has diarrhoea, you need to get him checked by the vet) I would try to work out what might be waking him and whether there is anything you can do to help him sleep through. Think about central heating boiler, noises outside, lights that come on early in the morning, etc, etc. I took my pups to bed with me - they slept through very quickly!


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## lily cd re

Our GSD did an excellent job training BF to take him out many times at night when he was young. At the slightest whimper BF would jump out of bed and take him out. He often din't relieve himself but took a trot around the yard. I always tried to get him to wait to see if there would be a persistent ask over 3-5 minutes, but that smart boy Peeves just won on that disagreement over and over.


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## Aimiloo

That does seem like a lot to go out in the night at 14 weeks - our puppy at 10 weeks had me up once in the night a few times the first few days we got her home but was all done with that by 11 weeks. That may be abnornal but that many times a night seems maybe something else is bugging puppy?


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## reraven123

Does he get to run around and play when you take him outside? Nighttime trips should be all business. Don't interact with him at all except to fasten the leash. Outside just stand still until he does his business and then back inside. These trips should be boring for him. If he gets attention or play that may be what he's waking you up for.


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## Stephjames512

If he barks should I try ignoring it? That’s what our vet office suggested.


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## zooeysmom

I agree that by this age, he should be sleeping through the night. My puppies were a little uneasy the first few nights, so when they whined/barked, I took them out on leash and brought them right back to their crate without any interaction after they had a chance to potty. After that, they slept from about 10pm to 6am consistently. After the pup has had a chance to potty, I would ignore the barking. Yes, they will test you and you have to have strong willpower!


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## fjm

Trouble is you risk ignoring the times he really needs to go, as well as the times he is barking for company. I would try having him sleep somewhere close to you, so that you can settle him if he wakes in the night with a word and a touch. If he doesn't settle, then up, out on a leash, no fuss or fun and games, and straight back to bed. A heartbeat toy might help, as might covering the crate.


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## Stephjames512

*minor progress *

Well, we put up with quite a bit of barking last night and reduced it to taking puppy out only once in the night- so he slept in the crate for two 4 hour periods. Hopefully we can stick with this for at least a week and then try to go longer.


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## Stephjames512

*update*

It turns out there WAS something wrong with Gio, health-wise, to need to poop and go out so often overnight. It turns out that he has hookworms- ew! And the vet told me they left me a voicemail 10 days ago about it!! but I didnt get any voicemail! I only found out he had it by calling them this morning to see if he could be seen due to off and on loose stool. Ugh.  I'm pretty upset about the lack of effective communication and am contemplating switching vet offices- am I being too rash? thanks for all the help with our issue. Poor little Gio.


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## lily cd re

Aww poor Gio and poor you! Hookworms are readily treated though. I hope you figure things out with the vet.


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## kontiki

Hookworms and poor communication..... hmm, I might also consider looking for a vet that makes sure for important things they persist until they contact you. My vet does both phone call and email. 

Oh dear, hopefully your little one went potty pretty much in the same place or they could be spread all over. Sending good luck wishes in getting this resolved quickly.

Does anyone know if they can spread to humans?


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## Stephjames512

I switched vets, I was just too upset about the situation as well as a few other things, so hopefully we will have a better experience going forward. It has been freezing here and the larvae are killed in freezing temps so that's lucky regarding the poop remnants in our yard. Gio is taking medicine for 3 days to kill any adult worms. Yuck! Also, yes humans can get hookworms- it is usually through soil or sand that has the worms and people walking barefoot I believe. Not a pleasant situation. We have to wipe his paws and his little butt everytime he comes in from outside.

Also Gio has been carrying on loudly and for very long periods of time at night, which we are "ignoring" (once he has eliminated of course). He only stays quiet for about 4 hours at most, at a time. It just seems outside the realm of normal and I'm going to work on re-acclimating him to his crate. Still tired over here.


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## lily cd re

Yes freezing weather will take care of the juveniles in the poo and soil. But yes people can get hookworms too, barefoot on contaminated soil not advisable when soil is contaminated. It sounds like you will have things all for the good pretty quickly.


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## kontiki

Do you know for sure what kind of hookworms they are?

I just found this:
"Freezing temperatures will kill Ancylostoma species eggs but Uncinaria species eggs are hardier and can survive in lower temperatures. Hookworm larvae cannot persist in the environment long term like other intestinal parasites can. Under ideal conditions they can survive in the soil for a few months."

https://www.cgvet.com/sites/site-4463/documents/parasites/internal/hookworms.pdf


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## lily cd re

kontiki, I believe _Ancylostoma_ are much more likely.


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## kontiki

lily cd re said:


> kontiki, I believe _Ancylostoma_ are much more likely.


More likely, yes, but since the others are much more resistant to treatment, if it were my dog I would want to know they had been tested for sure


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## lily cd re

kontiki said:


> More likely, yes, but since the others are much more resistant to treatment, if it were my dog I would want to know they had been tested for sure





Of course! I didn't mean to imply otherwise.


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## Jamie'sowner

How many months old is it until they become less work? Have a puppy now.


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## Dechi

Jamie'sowner said:


> How many months old is it until they become less work? Have a puppy now.


This is an old thread. You should start your own so you get more visibility. And tell us more about your puppy (size, age, temperament) so we can help.


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## McSuzie

fjm said:


> I think just about everyone on PF loves puppies - we love to share the excitement of the search for the perfect puppy, the wait for it to be old enough to come home, photos of babies with their Mum and in their new place, tales of ups and downs, puppy love and puppy naughtiness. But I wonder - especially in the light of recent posts by new owners finding the experience rather overwhelming - if we sometimes help to reinforce the myth of the Perfect Puppy: the one who sleeps happily in a crate all night from the start, is housetrained in a week of easy lessons, never chews anything except puppy toys, loves everyone, plays nicely with the cat and the children, trots beside you on a lead after just a couple of lessons...
> 
> I suspect most of us tend to forget just how much work raising a puppy can be (I know there are a number of members who have not forgotten, and only adopt adult dogs as a result!). Sleepless nights, piles of washing, children sobbing over nipped fingers or chewed up cherished toys, precious rugs soaked in urine, favourite plants dug up and scattered... and the unremitting demands of in and out for housetraining in all weathers, walking the tightrope of lots of finding lots of good socialising experiences while avoiding the risks of disease and other dangers, no social life worth talking about, and not even going to the loo alone. There are massive compensations, of course - happiness is a warm puppy, and a happy pup is a joy forever - but sometimes those compensations can seem a long time coming.
> 
> Were there times you thought "OMG, what have I done?!" And what helped you make it through?


Thank you for this, I am having a very trying time with my puppy and feel like weeping when I see all of the “perfect puppy” posts


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## Raindrops

McSuzie said:


> Thank you for this, I am having a very trying time with my puppy and feel like weeping when I see all of the “perfect puppy” posts


Don't worry. Many poodle puppies are really difficult. There's a saying that the worst puppies often become the best dogs. The potty training will come together, and the mouthing will eventually cease. It's just a very trying journey. You can always come here for support.


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## PeggyTheParti

McSuzie said:


> Thank you for this, I am having a very trying time with my puppy and feel like weeping when I see all of the “perfect puppy” posts


Ohhhh the stories we've all got for you! lol.

I've noticed that the folks who brag about their perfect puppies on social media often abruptly disappear and then reappear shortly thereafter, tail tucked between their legs. Puppy raising is a humbling endeavour.

Share your woes whenever you need to, and I promise we'll all be here to help or listen, whichever you prefer. 

In addition to the amazing support I got on Poodle Forum, I also enjoyed Zak George's "The Dog Training Experience" videos when I needed a little extra reassurance. His puppy Inertia really reminded me of Peggy at times, and it was _extremely_ comforting.


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## McSuzie

Ok here is my sad story. Quincy is 13 weeks and will not stop humping my leg. Resist the urge to laugh but while humping he is also nipping my butt and/or ripping my clothes. I’ve tried everything and am at my wits end. He mostly does this first thing AM snd last thing PM - the two times I am most likely to lose my mind. I refuse to be taken down by a 13 week poodle but when I say he can do this 15 times + in a row, fast and furious I’m not kidding. Has anyone had this wonderful experience? I am a very new poodle owner, this being my first. I’ve raised 2 Rottweilers and have never had such a challenging time


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## McSuzie




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## McSuzie

Update: Quincy is 7 months now


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## PeggyTheParti

McSuzie said:


> Update: Quincy is 7 months now
> View attachment 471069
> View attachment 471069


A stunningly handsome boy! How are you both getting along now?


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## McSuzie

PeggyTheParti said:


> A stunningly handsome boy! How are you both getting along now?


We are so much better!! No humping, no mouthing whew!!


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## McSuzie

McSuzie said:


> We are so much better!! No humping, no mouthing whew!!





PeggyTheParti said:


> A stunningly handsome boy! How are you both getting along now?


How’s Peggy (and you)?


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## PeggyTheParti

McSuzie said:


> How’s Peggy (and you)?


Pretty good! Some days we forget she's an adolescent. Other days...we _very much _remember. Lol. 

So happy to hear you made it through those puppy blues.


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## McSuzie

PeggyTheParti said:


> Pretty good! Some days we forget she's an adolescent. Other days...we _very much _remember. Lol.
> 
> So happy to hear you made it through those puppy blues.


I wasn’t sure I would lol!


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## stevenu22

First post here and I just want to say that reading about everyone‘s experiences has made me feel better. I am excited but nervous for my first standard poodle. It seems I am not alone in my feeling.


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## kontiki

Hoping to hear suggestions here for how to stop the humping! In a positive way.


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## McSuzie

stevenu22 said:


> First post here and I just want to say that reading about everyone‘s experiences has made me feel better. I am excited but nervous for my first standard poodle. It seems I am not alone in my feeling.


I’m not sure I did it in a positive way! It was so upsetting, he would hump and bite at the same time! I think the thing that ultimately worked was when he did it I would remove myself for a few minutes. One day he just stopped and never did it again - thank goodness !


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## fjm

Having started this thread, I am slightly astonished to find that I seem to have a Practically Perfect Puppy. Freddy is not a poodle but a papillon, a much less mouthy breed; he is also, of course, much smaller than a spoo. He came to me at 10 weeks, with bite inhibition already well established and from the speed with which he took to puppy pads some house training already in place. He was used to being in a pen watching a fairly busy world go by, so from the first was happy to settle there in a comfy bed with a few toys. He was respectful of the older dogs and the cats from the first, hugely sociable with dogs and people we meet out and about, quick to learn and generally the easiest pup yet.

There are several things I have done to keep life simple. First, I have chosen to start him on pads, and not fuss too much about toileting outside. The weather has been foul, winter is coming, and neither of us enjoy night time trips up and down the stairs and out into the wind and rain. A pad in the bathroom keeps life simple and my sleep not too disturbed. Second, I take him to bed with me. The first few nights were fraught for 15 minutes or so, but he quickly learned to settle down with the older dogs on the end of the bed, and only wake me if he needed a pee or poo. And most of all I am retired, home all day, and live alone - the house is calm and routine easy to establish, which means Freddy gets plenty of sleep. The first signs of OTT behaviour signal time for a nap - a chew or puzzle toy goes into his pen to keep it a happy place, he bounces into bed, and minutes later is fast asleep. And I don't sweat the small stuff - the occasional miss when pooing on the pad, grabbing at socks or leash, not wanting to be picked up, etc, etc are all part of being a puppy

I suspect lack of sleep may be at the root of many puppy problems. At 16 weeks a puppy still needs 18-20 hours asleep or snoozing every day, 1-2 hours at a time during the day and longer spells at night. Prevented from sleeping Freddy goes from sweetheart to whirling biting gremlin, and play or exercise just make him worse; helped to self soothe in a comfy bed, safe in a pen only a few feet from me and the other animals he goes out like a light, and wakes up once more a Practically Perfect Puppy.

I suspect he will be a truly impossible adolescent though...!


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## Looniesense

My secret to get puppy sleeping fast was Alexa! play Nora Jones. I began when he was already asleep and he became used to associating the music with sleep time. Now that he is a teenager and has started getting busy at night, walking around and playing with binkies, when I finally get fed up, I say Alexa! Play Nora Jones, and he settles within 5 minutes😉.


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