# Parti puppy question



## TerryLynn (Oct 25, 2014)

Okay, 
I just don't understand this maybe you guys can enlighten me. 
I am in love with parti pups and want to purchase one. I have talked with two breeders who have parti pups, moms and dads are parti. Why can I not find a parti puppy that I can have a litter with? Why are all the AKC registrations limited and won't allow you to breed. 
How in the world were those breeders able to breed then, and why are they priced so high if I can't breed them. 
I know I am dense, someone draw me a picture.
thanks in advance


----------



## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

So do you want to become a poodle breeder? Or do you just want to have a litter of puppies? 

pr


----------



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

It takes years and years of experience for many breeders to perfect their 'lines' and the last thing they want to happen is to see a litter of pups bred from an indiscriminate pairing of one of their dogs by a backyard breeder who has no idea of the hereditary diseases that could be passed on by someone who breeds just to get a litter of puppies to sell, or to show their kids 'the miracle of birth'.
It is not cheap to breed.........quality breeders do a lot of genetic testing, X-rays for hip dysplasia, eye test for PRA, Testing for Hemophilia, etc. and sometimes have to pay the for the cost of a ceasarian section.
Also the amount of time and money spent on titling their dogs can be very pricey so in reality most breeders are NOT making a ton on money breeding dogs.
In short, you will find plenty of BYBers who will sell you a pup with breeding rights, but you are taking a very big chance that you are getting a sound, healthy, good temperment dog that is not going to end up causing you lots of heartbreak and thousands of dollars!

If you are serious about breeding, you start first with proving yourself with a 'mentor' who will help you to learn about what is needed, and a serious dedication to the breed...............Show poodles are $$$$$$ for a reason! remember that!


----------



## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

MollyMuiMa couldn't have said it better, really.

The price is high because partis are a popular yet "rare" color. I know, I know--pups shouldn't be priced based on color. But, well...the laws of supply and demand do seem to kick in.

If you want to get into breeding...that is a whole 'nother deal. Especially with parti lines, which can have wonky conformation. The parti breeders you'd want to buy from are understandably protective of their lines and the work and research they've put into their dogs. If you want to get involved in that aspect of the game, prepare to prove yourself worthy!

--Q (proud owner of a tuxedo parti [neutered, limited registration, AKC champion grandpa])


----------



## TerryLynn (Oct 25, 2014)

Okay guys, 
this litter thing would be far far in the future after much testing to see if there would be any health issues so don't worry about that part of the question,
I just don't understand how to find a parti female that I COULD IF I WANTED TO breed, after all, if Im gonna pay 1500.00 it should be a healthy dog or from a healthy line to start with, if they have done all that testing. 
I have found two different litters that won't let me breed them at all but still want an arm and a leg.
I do know parti pups are popular because they are all sold before I can even get a deposit down on any.


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think I would approach it another way. In the UK at least, it is possible for the pup's breeder to lift the no breeding sanction if both puppy and owner prove suitable after a year or two. Breeders very understandably want to protect their puppies from being used as breeding machines by puppy farms or BYBs - starting the conversation with a discussion as to whether the pup's breeder would mentor you through a possible litter, if health, conformation and temperament tests are all satisfactory, may prove more positive than just asking for full breeding rights.


----------



## ChantersMom (Aug 20, 2012)

My parti-coloured poodle was no more expensive then a solid. I am a bit relieved that the parti poodle breeders are not just handing out their pups to be future moms /dads.


----------



## TerryLynn (Oct 25, 2014)

Thank you for that response, it was the only one that helped answer my questions. Appreciate you, fjm.


----------



## loves (Jul 2, 2013)

Many breeders charge more for full AKC registration than they do for limited. That is normal. Before limited registration papers were withheld until proof of spaying/neutering was received. And yes, good breeders do not want their dogs randomly used for breeding because their name will be connected with any puppies produced, usually.


----------



## Jacknic (Sep 14, 2010)

TerryLynn, 
I have sold a few female parti's with full rights, only after there is a show contract agreement. Besides health testing, I believe a dog should be proven either by conformation showing or performance/working titles. I think this is fair to ask of someone interested in breeding. Besides having your dog evaluated by others, it also shows that you are interested in your dog in more then just a breeding "machine". Like others have said, I have spent a lot of time and money to improve my lines and would hate to see that taken for granted. Parti colored poodles should not be looked at as "rare" it is just a gene, it is not really something special. If you are serious about wanting to breed dogs you should look for a mentor, preferably someone that lives near you so you could attend shows with them, or at least be able to meet their dogs and puppies. If you are not familiar with United Kennel Club I would suggest you study their website and perhaps look to see if their are shows in your area that you could attend before you start calling more breeders to obtain a female.


----------



## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

TerryLynn, one thing I believe wasn't mentioned yet.

Parti Poodles are an "exotic", "rare", colour. They sell for a higher price than solid Poos because there are more people who want one than there are puppies bred. This is, sadly, an excellent opportunity for puppy millers and other unscrupulous breeders.

Parti colouration is genetically recessive, which means a couple of things:
1) both parents need to carry the Parti allele in order to any pups turning out Parti
2) the only way to ensure an all-Parti litter is to have two Parti parents
3) breeding Parti to non-Parti will likely result in non-Parti pups carrying the allele
4) non-Parti carriers of the Parti allele can only be detected by a DNA test, and their offspring in any generation could crop out an unexpected Parti if the other parent was a carrier as well.

This leads to:
a) people breeding Partis will want Parti parents, and
b) people breeding solids will not want Parti parents.

Which means that anyone who would want to breed a Parti, is out for a Parti litter, or for a hobby litter. The former can easily mean someone looking to make a profit, which can easily mean someone who cares more for puppy fees than the well-being of their breeding dogs.

A respectable breeder would not want their puppies turned into career breeders, nor would they ever condone breeding hobby litters. Dog breeding, as others have mentioned, is a tricky business, and even easier than to sleepless nights, puppy circus, or complete tragedy, it can lead to a whole lot of wallet ache!

Restricted AKC registration cannot guarantee that the dog doesn't end up as a breeding machine, but it does guarantee that the dog's possible offspring may never be registered with the AKC. Being ineligible for AKC registration does not stop every uninformed or uninterested puppy buyer, but for those who know and care, it is a major warning sign.


----------



## AngelAviary (Aug 12, 2014)

Hi my Stella is a parti color, and I admit I love the color but really it is just a gene. She is a Standard Poodle just the same. She is loving, smart, athletic and gentle with everyone. That is why she truly is beautiful, not just the color of her coat. She is fully AKC registered and UKC registered. I too had to look for a breeder willing to sell with full AKC rights because if she passes all her health testing and proves she is what a Standard Poodle should be, she will have a litter. If she has solid color pups that are also good enough to be shown I wanted the opportunity to be able to do this. Breeding for color should not be the reason to have the litter, and all the wonderful people involved with parti's that I've meet feel the same way. It is a shame that so many people feel that Parti's are "rare" or "different" so they should be so expensive. Healthy, happy, correct Poodles are the ultimate goal everyone should have. 
My recommendation is also to get involved, join local clubs, volunteer at shows and get a mentor. What a huge wealth of information they can be and some can turn out to be new wonderful friends to share in your joy of owning a Parti Poodle. Everyone has to start somewhere (Im a beginner too) and hopefully you will find someone to give you your chance to begin. 
Proud owner of Ch. Angels She Got Her Groove Back CGC (Stella) Sable Brindle Parti Spoo
My life will never be without a Standard Poodle again!


----------



## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

I think you will find that getting a solid female with breeding rights would be as hard or even harder then finding a multicolor female with breeding rights. Breeders work hard showing, testing, and carefully and often well in advance picking the pair of dogs they want to breed. They DO NOT want their good name associated with BYB or puppy mills. They are much more likely to sell you a really good male to show and prove your interest before even speaking to you about a female they feel is of breeding quality. They want to know you are really in this for the long haul and for the right reasons not just looking for money. 

As Jacknic suggested check out the UKC site and find some shows in your area. Attend a few if there are multicolors there talk to the owners and let them know you are serious about learning about multicolors and eventually breeding them. There are some beautiful parti colors/multicolors out there and some very passionate breeders/owners. 

FYI most if not all of the best kennels producing particolors ask the same price for their multicolors as for their solids. And their contracts and feelings about them are the exact same thing you would find in a contract and breeder who does solids only. Multi tier pricing for me is a red flag...


----------



## Luce (Mar 4, 2013)

Not to stir the pot, I am NOT a breeder and don't intend becoming a breeder. I admit to being a bit naive when it comes to AKC and UKC registration stuff.

I am under the impression that parti colored poodles are not accepted by the AKC for registering, or is that just for conformation titles? Has that changed? I am aware the UKC does accept parti colored poodles for their conformation titles.

Again, not to stir the pot, but I have been wondering about this for a long time - what is the purpose of having a dog with papers that is spayed or neutered? Since they are not able to reproduce what is the point of being registered?

Thanks in advance for not yelling at me


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Luce, for me the Kennel Club registration is a basic guarantee that the dog is of the breed stated, and the 5 generation pedigree enables me to research the breeding lines, check the COI, and ask people more knowledgeable about the breed than I am about the health, longevity, and quality of the pup's ancestors. In the UK the Kennel Club places some limits on the age of the dam at breeding, breeding without essential health testing, and the number of litters that can be bred from her - unregistered pups are therefore a warning flag that these limits may have been broken. There are people who falsify pedigrees, of course, but that is why one looks into the reputation of the breeder, as well as just at the paperwork!


----------



## ChantersMom (Aug 20, 2012)

Chanter has both CKC (Cdn Kennel Club) and AKC registration. 

No conformation title allowed. I haven't told him yet as I'm waiting for him to be a bit older before we have 'the talk'.


----------



## AngelAviary (Aug 12, 2014)

Luce
The AKC will full register a Parti color Poodle but you are not able to show it in conformation shows. They are able to be shown in Obed, agility etc that the AKC offers. I registered Stella also with the UKC which accepts all the colors Poodle come in for conformation. They are shown in the Gun Dog group under Multi Color Standard Poodle. The solid colors compete as Standard Poodles. So we show against each other in the Gun Dog group. Stella got 2 of her 3 required competition wins in the Group taking a 4th out of 14 or so dogs and a 3rd out of 8 or 9 dogs. I wish someday the AKC will accept the colors for Conformation too. Lots of different breeds come in tons of colors too and a good Poodle is a Poodle no matter the color.


----------



## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I had a friend who purchased a black female about 7 years ago, she showed me a photo, and I saw a white spot on her front paw, which I told my friend, I think she is a parti poodle and the pups won't be sold. She returns to the same breeder purchases a black male. Had puppies and they came out black and brown, some had some white markings. 

I would be upset if I had planned on breeding solid and came out with parti or vise-versa. She paid 1200 for the female and 800 for the male, at full grown the girl is 11 and the boy is 7 pounds. They have short legs, I would feel that is not a well breed poodle. I am sure she did not check health and all. She and I fell out as she just kept breeding and breeding the poor little girl. I will say they were hand raised in the house, and socialized and treated well. I just felt she breed her to death


----------



## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

You can register multicolor poodles with AKC and they can compete in any performance event poodles are eligible for. They can't be shown in Conformation. 

UKC registers the multicolors as Poodles and they can compete in all events poodles are eligible for. It is ONLY in Conformation that the solids and multicolors are separated. 

I think the CKC is similar to the AKC ie register, can compete in performance but not Conformation.


----------



## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

TerryLynn said:


> Thank you for that response, it was the only one that helped answer my questions. Appreciate you, fjm.


Even though my response didn't answer your question right off... you have to understand that lots of members here (but I'm only speaking for myself) are protective of poodles and don't want to see them bred indiscriminately and don't want to be enablers of that. It's nothing personal.

pr


----------



## poolann (Jan 31, 2013)

If you've had previous experience with dogs in general or specifically poodles you might approach a breeder about a co-ownership. I have done that regarding my next puppy mainly because I would like to keep it intact for at least two years. I show in agility & performance events so I want the full benefit of hormones during growth. This breeder should act as a mentor to you & would expect you would show in UKC conformation with a parti & possibly performance events as well. It gives the breeder the option to keep a dog in their breeding program if the dog turns out as something they want to use. 
This type of arrangement needs to be laid out in a clear contract showing when you would take single ownership of the dog (if ever). However, you have the benefit of an experienced mentor.


----------

