# More Raw Questions



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Many of us feed both kibble and raw...........I feed Molly her raw meal in the A.M. and free feed her a measured amount of kibble that she grazes on thru out the day. Her typical raw meal is either dehydrated raw (Sojos or Honest Kitchen), raw chicken, or a raw ground beef/beef heart patty. Her kibble is also rotated in type/manufacturer She has never had a tummy problem so I guess I am lucky. I have fed her this way since puppyhood..
Every dog is different so you have to go with what works for your individual dog! You can still use kibble as her training treats, even if you feed entirely raw.........


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

I'm no expert, but I saw a post on here once advising that dogs can handle different types of food in the same day, maybe it was even in the same meal, usually with no trouble because wild canines would never have been picky and only eating one type of food - they would have eaten whatever they came across whenever they found it. So conceivably in one day a wild canine could eat rodents, deer carcass and bones, salmon, berries etc.

My pup eats kibble with freeze-dried raw, and for her nighttime crate treat, she gets a small handful of frozen raw bites (thawed of course). Everyday she has both kibble, freeze-dried raw, and frozen raw and does fine.

But like MollyMuiMa said, every dog is different!


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## Agidog (Jun 4, 2012)

my newly whelped bitch is having 4 meals a day same as while she was waiting to whelp, this consists of a home cooked vegetable mix with added salmon or fresh cooked fish, I add a scoop of fresh minced beef + spoon of cooked rice 1 tsp of coconut oil and a heaped teaspoon of divetalact (nursing supplement) I mix all this well adding a small quantity of chicken stock to moisten. she also has free range access to top quality dry I also give her a chicken wing every other day. Once pups are weaned she will go back to meat + rice and veges twice a day and dry to graze on.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

I feed Stella and Chewey's raw in the am and give Origin kibble as a treat during the day and for the evening meal she gets Origen kibble with S&C dehydrated mixed in with water. She is gaga over the Pheasant.

the kibble works great for training.

pr


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## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

Many people feed both kibble and raw but it should be fed at different meals, as it is digested at different rates.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

Hans gets kibble with dehydrated raw as a topper at every meal, and he does fine with the mix. I would love to feed him only raw but it isn't practical for us.


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## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

I'm sure it's fine to give a small amount of raw with the kibble to make it tastier but I wouldn't feed half and half in the same meal. In that case I would definitely make one meal raw and one meal kibble.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I've always been skeptical of the claim that raw and kibble can't be fed together and I do in fact mix premade raw and kibble in the same meal. The only thing I will not do is feed raw edible bones with kibble as the bones really do require a different digestive process than kibble. Premade raw is almost always high pressure pasteurized and essentially just uncooked canned food so I don't worry one bit about mixing it.


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## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

Well that is your choice and you are entitled to it.

I did a lot of of research when I decided to feed kibble in addition to raw. I went on to raw feeding forums to see what others were doing and the general consensus was definitely not to feed the two together. I then researched the reason behind this and it just made good sense to me, they are both digested at totally different rates. As I like to err on the side of caution I decided not to mix the two. Also, a lot of premade raw has the bones included.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Critterluvr said:


> Well that is your choice and you are entitled to it.
> 
> I did a lot of of research when I decided to feed kibble in addition to raw. I went on to raw feeding forums to see what others were doing and the general consensus was definitely not to feed the two together. I then researched the reason behind this and it just made good sense to me, they are both digested at totally different rates. As I like to err on the side of caution I decided not to mix the two. Also, a lot of premade raw has the bones included.


This is what I've always read when researching raw feeding. But lately, there is some question about how they came to this conclusion. This article might be very enlightening complete with barium ex rays and a small study:

DIGEST THIS: Kibble May Actually Digest Faster Than Raw | The Raw Feeding Community


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I had always heard that kibble and raw digested at different rates. Not which one digested faster. All I know is that my Spoo almost always throws up a kibble meal, of whatever quality kibble. I therefore feed him raw


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Critterluvr said:


> Well that is your choice and you are entitled to it.
> 
> I did a lot of of research when I decided to feed kibble in addition to raw. I went on to raw feeding forums to see what others were doing and the general consensus was definitely not to feed the two together. I then researched the reason behind this and it just made good sense to me, they are both digested at totally different rates. As I like to err on the side of caution I decided not to mix the two. Also, a lot of premade raw has the bones included.


Oh trust me, I've done research. I fed homemade raw and was very *anti kibble* for a multiple years. . I was also a big poster on the raw forums which im sure you've ventured to.

Yes, premade raw has bones, however, they have been ground. Whole bones are more difficult and take longer to digest.

That said, it certainly isnt harmful at all to separate kibble from raw.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> This is what I've always read when researching raw feeding. But lately, there is some question about how they came to this conclusion. This article might be very enlightening complete with barium ex rays and a small study:
> 
> DIGEST THIS: Kibble May Actually Digest Faster Than Raw | The Raw Feeding Community


Thank you for posting this link. I particularly Agree with this:

"By conducting this experiment and publishing these results, all we mean to do is encourage people to question everything they are told online, and look for proof rather than anecdotal evidence. There is an unfortunate lack of peer reviewed studies when it comes to raw diets. A lot of what is claimed online tends to be simply hear-say or anecdotal evidence. As raw feeders, we should strive to always continue learning more about what we are feeding our pets, even if what we are learning happens to go against the grain of what most raw feeding Facebook groups preach."


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## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

All good points.
I would still separate the meals, to me it's not a big deal to do it.
I'm actually feeding 100% raw right now anyway......


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Critterluvr said:


> All good points.
> I would still separate the meals, to me it's not a big deal to do it.
> I'm actually feeding 100% raw right now anyway......


Me too, tonight he is getting grassfed beef heart


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

kontiki said:


> Me too, tonight he is getting grassfed beef heart



Ooo! Mine want to come to your house they LOVE ? beef heart!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I don't know if it's the same thing or not but we eat foods at one meal where some digest faster and easier than others. So what?


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## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I don't know if it's the same thing or not but we eat foods at one meal where some digest faster and easier than others. So what?


Oh boy, that's fuel for a whole new topic.......lol.

I work in the medical field and believe me I've seen the damage that us humans cause to our digestive systems/bodies by the food that we consume....
But that is our choice!


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Critterluvr said:


> Oh boy, that's fuel for a whole new topic.......lol.
> I work in the medical field and believe me I've seen the damage that us humans cause to our digestive systems/bodies by the food that we consume....
> But that is our choice!


 Yes, there is a reason they call the Standard American Diet the SAD diet!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

My very first introduction to raw was via Nature's Variety products about 7 years ago and this is what they have to say:

Q&A:

"If I feed my pet a mixture of Instinct Raw and Instinct or Prairie Kibble during the same meal, should I be concerned about the different rate of digestion?

It’s important for pet parents to feel comfortable with their feeding process. We believe customers need not be concerned about mixing raw and kibble at the same meal. Raw is like canned food in terms of moisture content and rates of digestion; people routinely combine canned and kibble diets with no digestive upset or stomach emptying issues. There is no scientific evidence that combining kibble and raw food causes the raw foods to be digested at a slower rate."


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## kmart (Apr 28, 2015)

CharismaticMillie said:


> My very first introduction to raw was via Nature's Variety products about 7 years ago and this is what they have to say:
> 
> Q&A:
> 
> ...


After working in the pet food industry, it has been my experience that the absolute WORST place to get feeding advice and information is from pet food manufacturers. 

I think I'm going to start with just doing 100% raw. My puppy is being raised on raw and I don't think I'm going to mess with it unless it gets too difficult for me. But I doubt that will happen with all the awesome advice I've gotten from this forum so far!


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Oh well, my spoo throws up the kibble part.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

kmart said:


> After working in the pet food industry, it has been my experience that the absolute WORST place to get feeding advice and information is from pet food manufacturers.
> 
> I think I'm going to start with just doing 100% raw. My puppy is being raised on raw and I don't think I'm going to mess with it unless it gets too difficult for me. But I doubt that will happen with all the awesome advice I've gotten from this forum so far!


I fully agree with you.
And, so does my Spoo.
We're totally raw too!


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## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

kmart said:


> After working in the pet food industry, it has been my experience that the absolute WORST place to get feeding advice and information is from pet food manufacturers.
> 
> Oh yah, I TOTALLY agree with you here!
> 
> Yes, feeding 100% raw is definitely the best way to go if you can swing it.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

kmart said:


> After working in the pet food industry, it has been my experience that the absolute WORST place to get feeding advice and information is from pet food manufacturers.
> 
> I think I'm going to start with just doing 100% raw. My puppy is being raised on raw and I don't think I'm going to mess with it unless it gets too difficult for me. But I doubt that will happen with all the awesome advice I've gotten from this forum so far!


I don't disagree with you, however, it *is* true that there is no scientific evidence that there is anything problematic with mixing raw and kibble. Also, consider the liability position a company is putting themself in by claiming that it is OK to do.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Even worse is that most vets get their animal nutrition training from pet food companies.

My spoo would have died if I had not finally insisted that I feed him raw in spite of what my vets said. He had lost 1/3 of his body weight, wouldn't even drink water, threw up everything, or it came out the other end as liquid, and he just laid there. Had to have iv fluids. After about $2K in tests and every food recommended by the vets I refused to listen to them anymore. Thank goodness.


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## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

Yes Kontiki, kibble can really cause a lot of health problems.....
When my Poodle cross Jasper was a pup he had constant eye, ear and skin infections. Plus he would occasionally throw up. My vet just kept prescribing ointments, drops and antibiotics....but had no clue what was causing the infections. I decided it HAD to be his diet, and that's when I decided to start him on raw. All of his problems immediately cleared up and he's been totally healthy ever since. (He's 5 now)
And boy, do they enjoy their raw meals.....when I have run out of raw and have fed kibble my dogs just look at me like they're saying "are you kidding me?"


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## cecethepoodle (Aug 23, 2014)

I think feeding both is fine. I don't personally feed raw because of concerns I have that if you aren't extremely careful you can skimp on nutrients your dog needs with a raw only diet. Adding a kibble will ensure he/she gets all of the nutrients necessary.


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## kmart (Apr 28, 2015)

cecethepoodle said:


> I think feeding both is fine. I don't personally feed raw because of concerns I have that if you aren't extremely careful you can skimp on nutrients your dog needs with a raw only diet. Adding a kibble will ensure he/she gets all of the nutrients necessary.


See, I'm concerned that my puppy won't get all the nutrients she needs if I feed her kibble. 
The amount of faith that people put in the pet food industry is concerning to me. Dogs are carnivores that should be eating what carnivores eat. The only reason that they are fed grains/veggies/fruits/etc. is that the pet food industry needed fillers/good-sounding ingredients (hey, blueberries are healthy, right?) and convinced the world that dogs "need" them. 
I mean, Dog Chow is advertised as being safe, healthy, and complete nutrition for dogs which should be a huge liability. 

We also have great reasons to be skeptical of pet food producers (Blue Buffalo vs. Purina, anyone?) as well as the majority veterinarians' nutritional recommendations. Everything is so saturated in $$.


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## cecethepoodle (Aug 23, 2014)

kmart said:


> See, I'm concerned that my puppy won't get all the nutrients she needs if I feed her kibble.
> The amount of faith that people put in the pet food industry is concerning to me. Dogs are carnivores that should be eating what carnivores eat. The only reason that they are fed grains/veggies/fruits/etc. is that the pet food industry needed fillers/good-sounding ingredients (hey, blueberries are healthy, right?) and convinced the world that dogs "need" them.
> I mean, Dog Chow is advertised as being safe, healthy, and complete nutrition for dogs which should be a huge liability.
> 
> We also have great reasons to be skeptical of pet food producers (Blue Buffalo vs. Purina, anyone?) as well as the majority veterinarians' nutritional recommendations. Everything is so saturated in $$.


Dogs are actually omnivores. The only true carnivore that people commonly keep as a pet is a cat. I agree that it is hard to choose/trust a brand of dog food, but I would advise really researching a raw diet and knowing the exact amounts of vitamins, minerals, and fatty acids that your pet needs along with the other necessary proteins/carbs/fats etc because it is very easy to accidentally overdose a pet or more likely deprive a pet of nutrients because the lack of nutritional knowledge. 

An example of this is a Ca or P deficiency that can cause skeleton deformities.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I don't think that kibble is some horrible thing that causes a lot of problems necessarily. I've had dogs live to nearly 20 years of age that weren't toy breeds and they grew up on Gravy Train and Purina Dog Chow and they never had a sick day in their lives until the end. I think nutrition is important and I feed a better commercial food...premium. My Doberman ate mostly TOTW and people asked me what I polished his coat with. That black, short coat shows the sheen best. 

As far as being omnivores, that's a controversy. I believe the jury is still out on that one. Apparently, their physiology, their digestive tract, their skulls, teeth, jaws are that of a carnivore. They're not an obligate carnivore like a cat but they do need lots of meat. The omnivore aspect may be behavioral. In other words, they will eat other things and thrive well as long as they have plenty of protein, bone too. They do not need vegetation or grains to thrive however. The latest research I've seen shows that they have evolved to digest grain quite well, better than was thought. So, I wouldn't call them one or the other exclusively. My take is that they're carnivores and omnivores behaviorally. 

I was in the medical field too years ago and took my share of anatomy and physiology. I know that many of us cause havoc on our bodies with the foods we eat. However, I don't know that eating an ear of corn on the cob and a couple spare ribs with a big green salad with carrots and green pepper is going to hurt a perfectly healthy person. My guess is that the corn and harder vegetables will digest slower than the meat. I could be wrong. I didn't learn about that so much. But it is a guess. I, personally have a stomach made of lead and hardly anything gets me messed up. My dogs seem to take after me...not very sensitive. :act-up: 

So I don't know for a fact one way or the other if feeding raw and kibble together will bother most dogs. Maybe it will some. I guess just do whatever works for your dog. If he gets upset, then try something else till you hit on just the right thing.


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## kmart (Apr 28, 2015)

cecethepoodle said:


> Dogs are actually omnivores. The only true carnivore that people commonly keep as a pet is a cat. I agree that it is hard to choose/trust a brand of dog food, but I would advise really researching a raw diet and knowing the exact amounts of vitamins, minerals, and fatty acids that your pet needs along with the other necessary proteins/carbs/fats etc because it is very easy to accidentally overdose a pet or more likely deprive a pet of nutrients because the lack of nutritional knowledge.
> 
> An example of this is a Ca or P deficiency that can cause skeleton deformities.


The reason I know that dogs are carnivores is because of my EXTENSIVE research. Feeding kibble ensures far more nutritional deficiencies than a well-varied raw diet. I recall several big-name pet food representatives telling me everything you've said. While a quality kibble is definitely not going to hurt most dogs, I want to give my dog the absolute best nutrition possible. 

To elaborate; feeding cheap dog food won't hurt some dogs, just like some people can live off of fast food and not be overweight. While they look and act perfectly healthy, I don't think they _feel_ super healthy. But that's just an inference, backed up by my hours of reading about raw.


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## cecethepoodle (Aug 23, 2014)

We have different schools of thought, but it is clear we both love our dogs and want the best for them. Good luck with your raw feeding! There is no "right" answer that everyone will agree on, but as mentioned before, not all dogs are the same and some things work better for others. Same with people, I would die if I was forced to be on a paleo diet or whatever clean eating thing is all the rage....CARBS FOR LIFE!


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## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I was in the medical field too years ago and took my share of anatomy and physiology. I know that many of us cause havoc on our bodies with the foods we eat. However, I don't know that eating an ear of corn on the cob and a couple spare ribs with a big green salad with carrots and green pepper is going to hurt a perfectly healthy person. My guess is that the corn and harder vegetables will digest slower than the meat. I could be wrong. I didn't learn about that so much. But it is a guess. I, personally have a stomach made of lead and hardly anything gets me messed up. My dogs seem to take after me...not very sensitive. :act-up: .


Poodlebeguiled....you are talking about a "whole food" meal here, not comparable. Kibble is a totally over processed food. Different digestion process altogether.

Cecethepoodle....I would be careful with that CARBS FOR LIFE, it may come back and bite ya' some day.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I've gone back and forth from TOTW dry and canned of various premium brands, like Merrick, Canidae, Dave's, Wellness and various other brands. I use Stella's freeze dried raw for treats and sometimes in their meals. And Nature's Variety frozen raw. They like it all and do fine on all of it. I have yet to try some raw meaty bones on these particular dogs. I did with my Chi's quite a few years ago and had some problems which makes me hesitant. I'm sure over processing is not good. Some of the premium brands however, process very gently, using low temperatures and I don't believe those foods are the same as us eating at fast food restaurants. The foods I feed are primarily grain free, but not always. I'm not overly worried about grain as long as it isn't in large amount, reducing the meat amount. I want good quality meats and lots of protein for my dogs. 

Here's a very good website and the gal who owns it is a nutritional specialist with a university education in animal nutrition. She designed a home made, liver friendly diet for my Dobe who had liver disease and he did very well on it for a good while. The Dog Food Project - How does your Dog Food Brand compare?

I think there can be some issues that come up from time to time with some of the commercial foods, like recalls or unscrupulousness where something is discovered where they mislead. So, ultimately, I'm sure raw or even home cooked (gently) diets as long as they're rich in all the minerals, vitamins and essential nutrients dogs need are best. But I don't think a good quality, premium kibble is going to cause a dog to be mal nourished or some of the other fear-mongering propaganda some raw feeding zealots tout. Like I said before, I've had and known dogs that had unusually good longevity that were healthy, energetic and fit all their lives and they ate much lower quality foods than we see more in abundance these days. I wouldn't feed those foods now that better stuff is available. But I don't agree that any food but raw is going to be significantly deleterious to their health necessarily.


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## kmart (Apr 28, 2015)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I think there can be some issues that come up from time to time with some of the commercial foods, like recalls or unscrupulousness where something is discovered where they mislead. So, ultimately, I'm sure raw or even home cooked (gently) diets as long as they're rich in all the minerals, vitamins and essential nutrients dogs need are best. But I don't think a good quality, premium kibble is going to cause a dog to be mal nourished or some of the other fear-mongering propaganda some raw feeding zealots tout. Like I said before, I've had and known dogs that had unusually good longevity that were healthy, energetic and fit all their lives and they ate much lower quality foods than we see more in abundance these days. I wouldn't feed those foods now that better stuff is available. But I don't agree that any food but raw is going to be significantly deleterious to their health necessarily.


I definitely agree with this. I would never feed Beneful (somehow, I can always tell if a dog eats that stuff because they smell so bad!) but I definitely think that there are plenty of good options of processed food, like Orijin, Merrick, Wellness, etc. Which are brands I would use if I decided to not feed raw.

But I definitely have strong feelings about feeding a dog a corn and wheat based diet, which has only recently become less prevalent in dog food, so that's where I based a lot of my previous comments about kibble. 

As for the fear-mongering propaganda, it definitely comes from both sides. I definitely think there's a happy middle ground, and honestly, unless there are serious medical conditions, most dogs will be okay no matter what they're eating. I really just want the ABSOLUTE best for my spoo, so I get anxious. :dance:


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## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

I agree, I think kibble can potentially cause health problems in some dogs but other dogs can be totally fine with it and live long healthy lives.
I only started feeding raw because of Jasper's health problems as a pup. Before that I had always fed kibble with no problems.
I think if you choose to feed kibble then you there are a lot of good brands out there you can buy without breaking the bank. Just check the ingredients carefully, and I too would avoid those with corn and wheat in them.

I currently feed totally raw because I truly feel it's the best diet but it's a lot of work for 3 dogs. I may decide again to feed one meal kibble, i will just pick one that has the safest most natural ingredients.

I think that you should choose to feed your dog whatever works best for YOU as long as it keeps your dog healthy.


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