# Brief crit of groom wanted!



## Birdie (Jun 28, 2009)

Des is due for a groom this week, and I plan to keep the basic length on this cut, I just need to work on angling & scissor work. If you would offer some critique for me so I can know specifically what to work on, I would SO appreciate it! 

We're growing out his hocks, TK, & crest. (Honestly, I really miss the fro, this just isn't cutting it) I plan on tightening his rear & the backs of his back legs, & I want to achieve some visual "lift". Anybody got some advice as to how to accomplish that?? He looks a bit sluggish, I want to get him to that springy, tight & trim look. I am thinking of transitioning him into a Modern, how would I do that at his current state? 

Any & all suggestions would be super appreciated!! 
Thanks in advance! Hope the pics are enough to work with


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

The first thisn I noticed it there's too much on the front of this thigh - and not enough in the front of his read hock-down-to-ankle area. That will help.

Is the tuck up shaved? Can it be brought up? If now, how about growing about an inch on his belly between his belly button and point of chest. Not farther down than the elbow of course. This would give an illusion.

Where ever you want to see tightness, balance it out with fullness in other places. Can you start to grow a bit of crest?


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## Birdie (Jun 28, 2009)

Thanks tortoise!! We're working on growing the hock/ankle area and his crest. The lack of neck hair and back of leg is a big irritant for me. He used to have magnificent hock hair!! Can't wait til that grows in. 
I'll tinker with his tuckup during the groom! Right now it's about 2 weeks growth onto a #4 reverse, so it's still awfully short, but I can start on setting that length to imply he has a nice high tuck up. 
I'm worried that taking hair off the inside of his thigh/knee area will make him appear long, since he is slightly long in body. Is this something I should be concerned about, or am I overthinking it?


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

It will make him look TALL, off-setting the longness. 

On the tuck up, I'd go down to the skin, maybe #10. But I scissor it, not using clippers for it. (Too easy to make a mistake.)

Do you shave the back of the leg from the pin bone striaght down to before the leg curves back to the hock? It gives the illusion of more hock hair, helps with the long body, and shows of angulation.


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## Birdie (Jun 28, 2009)

That makes sense!  
I usually do, I run a blade down from the pin bone & taper off to set a length, then go in and scissor it real tight & close to get that flair. I'm going to work harder on bringing that even closer than I normally do (last groom I barely touched it) this coming week. Hopefully he'll look like he has some sort of angulation afterwards


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

I *think* that growing out his front legs - a little longer on the rear side than on the front - and taking down his chest very short would help too.

My dog is a little long backed too so I get the challenge! I put him in a CC so there's no butt/hip/angulation/tuck up to deal with and I just took A LOT off his chest and bottom of his jacket. Now if only he will grow a decent crest I think he'll look respectable.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

I noticed a couple of things. The tuck up, like tortoise pointed out...it needs to come forward quite a bit, probably several inches. I usually set mine at the last rib or slightly behind, depending on the dog's build... since Des is a little long, you'll want to place it at the last rib to shorten him up. You also need more stifle hair, which you will blend into the tuck up. Don't scoop out the flank area, let that grow in and blend it a bit more. You want a waist line yes, but everything should be smooth...no bumps. Also, the point of rump needs to come up and your pelvic angle is a bit steep...bring that angle to 30 degrees and your point of rump will move up as well. I personally would also take the front of the front legs in more...it will give him more chest. I think everything else is a matter of growing more hair. I really hate waiting for that!


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## Birdie (Jun 28, 2009)

Tortoise, I feel ya! I'm thinking of growing Desmond into a Scandinavian this winter, and maybe from there we'll finally try a Continental!! Waiting for the hair to grow is the toughest part, haha.
When shaping the chest, I am trying to leave length on the outermost point to accentuate any front angulation, right? I try to take the area up by his face & neck short to give his stubby lil' neck some length and make him look like he's got a chest. We are as close as we've ever gotten to a decent chest atm, should I move that angle on his chest up a bit or just tighten it where it meets his front legs?

Mom24doggies, thanks so much! That helps a ton. 
I was noticing, only when I looded at these pics, how low his booty is looking! Maybe I need to try something new with his tail, it is sort of smothering his butt, and I think bringing his rump up will make him look less droopy. Thanks for pointing that out. 
I have been so conservative with taking hair off his front legs, I've already tried to take them down in front, but it makes me so nervous, for some reason lol. I'll take those in tighter this groom!!


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

mom24doggies said:


> I noticed a couple of things. The tuck up, like tortoise pointed out...it needs to come forward quite a bit, probably several inches. I usually set mine at the last rib or slightly behind, depending on the dog's build... since Des is a little long, you'll want to place it at the last rib to shorten him up. You also need more stifle hair, which you will blend into the tuck up. Don't scoop out the flank area, let that grow in and blend it a bit more. You want a waist line yes, but everything should be smooth...no bumps. Also, the point of rump needs to come up and your pelvic angle is a bit steep...bring that angle to 30 degrees and your point of rump will move up as well. I personally would also take the front of the front legs in more...it will give him more chest. I think everything else is a matter of growing more hair. I really hate waiting for that!


I believe you but WOW, moving the tuck up to the last rib sounds..... daring.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

tortoise said:


> I believe you but WOW, moving the tuck up to the last rib sounds..... daring.


Lol I know, but it makes a huge difference in how long/short the dog looks. The line of the crest should flow straight down into the tuck up...someone here posted a picture demonstrating that, wish I could remember where it was! And also, just to clarify, by last rib I mean the "floating" rib.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

I know what photo you mean. Its of a scandi or modern? cut with a diagonal line through it. I couldn't find one but this photo shows is obviously:

http://www.poodleforum.com/attachme...s-pictures-different-poodle-cuts-100_0391.jpg


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

tortoise said:


> I know what photo you mean. Its of a scandi or modern? cut with a diagonal line through it. I couldn't find one but this photo shows is obviously:
> 
> http://www.poodleforum.com/attachme...s-pictures-different-poodle-cuts-100_0391.jpg


 Yeah I think it was a modern...but that pic shows a extreme version of what I'm talking about. On a modern it's not quite so obvious, KWIM?


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