# Toe cancer in Standard Poodles



## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

This is my public education message for the day...

Did you know that a type of toe cancer called Squamous Cell Carcinoma (SCC) is a health concern in Black Standard Poodles? Standard Poodles along with Giant Schnauzers get this form of cancer at much higher rates than the general dog population.

The good news is that if caught early, this cancer can be stopped through amputation of the toe. Allowed to spread, however, and it is fatal.

So what does that mean for the owner of a Black Standard Poodle? I like to say that it is like living with an older Diabetic. SHOES AND SOCKS OFF!!!! Black Standard Poodle feet need to be kept shaved clean and the feet need to be inspected regularly. Any infection in the toe or nail bed means an immediate trip to the vet.

Here is some information about it:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~anessa-ava/scc.htm


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## Cdnjennga (Jul 30, 2009)

That's very interesting CBrand. It's funny you mention it, as I know one of the mini breeder's I spoke to also has standards and one of hers had toe cancer. I had never heard of such a thing and so wondered if it was a problem in poodles.

Do they have any idea why this is such a problem in black standards specifically?


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Does it affect browns as wells as blacks?
Elphie is a really dark brown almost black, but in the right light shes brown


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

Thanks for the information cbrand. We keep the boys feet hairy, but were thinking of having them shaved as they are tracking in a lot of dirt. Now I have an even better reason to shave their feet (even if one is cream ).


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Holy cow, the x-rays of those feet are awful, you can see the swelling/tumor in the pictures too. I'll be grooming my own poodle, so if I get a black one I'll be looking at the feet ALL the time when I do clean feet. Thanks for the info cbrand!

If the cancer does start to spread up the leg, could amputating the whole leg save the dog? Some relatives of some friends of mine had this done to their lab, probably saving his life. I don't think it is the same cancer, but maybe the treatment could be similiar?


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Generally the reason this cancer is so deadly is that by the time you find it, it has already spread. It usually spreads to the lungs or another major organ, so removing the whole leg wouldnt help. 

For some reason, it is connected with the black gene (black labs are also very high on the list). 

Thanks Carol for posting this! It is a very serious (deadly) disease that we need to be educated about!


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

Scary stuff, as if there aren't enough genetic problems with poodles as it is.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

KPoos said:


> Scary stuff, as if there aren't enough genetic problems with poodles as it is.


I know right? There's this dog bible at my work and I look through it when we're having a down time. It lists all the known health problems with the breeds, the standard poodle has a ton! But one thing that caught my eye is under the barbet, is said none known! The lists for other dogs wasn't nearly as high.

Love comes at a cost for these dogs.


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

It really does. I wonder why a barbet that looks like a poodle has no known health issues? Didn't they have to breed a poodle back in there some where?


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

It's possible that the Barbet breeders haven't put the time and money into research that Poodle breeders have. I've yet to find another breed that has all the available resources, like PHR, that Poodles do. It's amazing!


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

Harley_chik said:


> It's possible that the Barbet breeders haven't put the time and money into research that Poodle breeders have. I've yet to find another breed that has all the available resources, like PHR, that Poodles do. It's amazing!


But on the flip side of the coin, poodles might have it because of all the health problems.hwell:


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

My neighbor's black spoo girl got that : (((. It was caught early and she only lost one toe and is doing great , thanks God !!!

I did not know that it is a "black poodle" thing though :scared:- how scary : ((

Geezzzz, maybe I should buy a white than :rolffleyes:


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

My friend's black female spoo had it a year and a half ago, but it was caught early and she is doing great. Her toe was removed, but you could never tell as she still runs like the wind. I am not sure she knows she is missing one of her toes.


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Poodle Lover said:


> My friend's black female spoo had it a year and a half ago, but it was caught early and she is doing great. Her toe was removed, but you could never tell as she still runs like the wind. I am not sure she knows she is missing one of her toes.


Poodles are very stoic animals, they live through the pain, and they won't put on a soccer player act lol


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

I knew a black giant schnauzer who had to have his toe amputated from it too... he didn't care after it was done either! lol


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## Nigel (Nov 24, 2009)

I lost my giant schnauzer Vixen to toe cancer in June '08. She was only three years old. We had amputated the affected toe on her hind foot in February and the vet really believed it hadn't spread. In June I came home one Saturday to find her covered in blood with a huge wound on her shoulder. There had been a fatty tumor there and it burst. Still not clear on why the fatty tumor burst but vet feels that once there is cancer in the body in will root itself somewhere. We rushed her to the emergency vet and they took lung x-rays and found cancer. 

We had to euthanize her that day. It was a complete shock because her foot had healed and her behavior was completely normal and active.
I don't think I've ever cried so hard in my life, so unfair. We miss her terribly.

I've had many smart dogs in my life, having had german shepherds then my giants. Vixen was hands down the smartest dog I ever had the privledge to share my home with. She was very human and loving. My husband and sons still talk about her every day, as do I. It was such a sad end for her and us.

I hope none of you or my giant schnauzer friends ever have a dog affected by this. We did everything medically possible and still lost a wonderful dog. 

Please keep a close eye on nails, nail beds and toe pads.

Kathy


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

what are the signs for it?
should a groomer or vet be able to spot it quickly?
or is it something that I should just look for when doing Elphies nails?


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## desertreef (Nov 14, 2009)

Wow Kathy... how awfully tragic and very sad. I know that she will always remain in your heart. Losing them so young and suddenly is very different and hard to deal with. I'm really sorry.

And someone asked if a groomer would spot it out... I've never seen it but I would think absolutely. They are shaving paws and seeing everything close to the nails. If you see anything abnormal, don't wait and have it checked right away.


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## Noriko (Nov 30, 2009)

I found something wrong with my client's giant and mini schnauzer few years ago,and it was toe cancer.
And both had their toe amputated.
giant passed away shortly after ( she was quite old then ) but mini is still doing ok,
It's been 2yrs at least, I just groom him yesterday


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

If I see a lump on a dog, I'll point it out to the owner, or wounds, or anything abnormal when I groom dogs. If a foot was looking odd I'd ask the owner about it either when I'm calling them to tell them their dogs done, or when they pick their dog up, just in case they already know about it and my call comes in as bothersome.

You wouldn't believe how many times you have to tell someone that their dog has a bad ear infection and needs to go to the vet and they just shrug it off and continue on with their merry day. I groomed a cocker not too long ago, his feet should have been white, but were discolored from scratching his ears and licking his toes. His ears were oozing pus and blood and were so swollen that I doubt he could hear well. Does that sound healthy?

Please trust people that are around animals if they say there might be something wrong with your animal, something that sounds so simple can go downhill really fast. Pets can even die from ear infections.

Lots of times when I point out a tumor, the owners will just tell me that the vet said it is a harmless fatty tumor. What are these caused by, and are they seriously harmless?


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## Noriko (Nov 30, 2009)

I can't agree more fluffyspoo!
I groomed this maltese the other day, he usually gets #7 strip and was little over due and hairy, but I've notice right away his face look odd.
So look at it very closely and it was so swollen under one eye to a point
he couldn't open his eye.
I immidiately open his mouth and found huge tumor on the gum and it was
gross.
I called the owner right away to suggest to make an appointment with the vet.
Here is what he said,
" Oh my dog don't have tumor, he is fine, he eats good, he acts normal ".
I was sooooo mad at him.
He was shocked when I showed him but I'm not sure if he took him to the vet.
How could he have not notice??
Some people just should not have animals...


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Noriko said:


> Some people just should not have animals...


Oh that's an understatement lol like the people who leave their dog outside all year, neglect it completely, and get it shaved once a year where groomers find maggots in it's mats? As groomers we see neglect a lot.. but can you imagine what the vets see?


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Yes, fatty tumors are generally harmless. The only way they can really be bad is if they are large enough to obstruct movement on the animal or prevent it from leading a comfortable life (you wouldnt believe how big some get).


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Bailey has a "harmless fatty tumor" right at the tip of his sternum. The vet says it's nothing, I've talked to other dog people about it and the concensus is that they are harmless and best left alone. It still makes me nervous though.

I don't think it's a good idea to rely on the vet or a groomer to catch things like that. The groomers we have here, on this forum, are awesome, but not all groomers are that great and everyone has an off day. If you dog sees the groomer every other month and the vet twice a year, that's not often enough to catch something quickly.


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