# Silver?? Red?? SILVER!! Rant



## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Yeaahh.. studding dogs via vials is a little weird.. I can see how it can be more convienent though.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

By the amount of pups she had I assume people really do that more often then we think. Here is my thing - how is the customer to receive that? I would think if you were a reputable breeder - I don't think I would advertise that where potential owners are seeking companians.....And yeah the ick factor as well.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Yeaahh.. studding dogs via vials is a little weird.. I can see how it can be more convienent though.


In the dog show world this is a very common practice . It protects the female from being exposed to anything and it protects the female from having to travel . I have my Champion BISS male setter collected hoping someday to find something worthy


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

bigredpoodle said:


> In the dog show world this is a very common practice . It protects the female from being exposed to anything and it protects the female from having to travel . I have my Champion BISS male setter collected hoping someday to find something worthy


Not exposed to the other dog? 

Sorry not being trying to be ignorant I truely am not educated enough about breeding but I seriously don't get it. There must be a lot more money involved than i thought.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

she means artificial insemination

I read that some breeds like the English Bulldog have to be artificially inseminated because of the way the females uterus is shaped
and I could understand the show dog thing, why put the female or male in jeopardy of being injured from the breeding that they might need shaved? 

but I would be a little icked out about the purple message of seminal fluids xD


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Keithsomething said:


> she means artificial insemination
> 
> I read that some breeds like the English Bulldog have to be artificially inseminated because of the way the females uterus is shaped
> and I could understand the show dog thing, why put the female or male in jeopardy of being injured from the breeding that they might need shaved?
> ...


Lol, I know what she meant Keithsomething thanks

I guess I can get that, BUT as a customer and for people like me who are more about the dog as a companion/pet its hard to swallow seeing that.:rolffleyes: 

Interesting tidbit about the EB, that I can understand. Another dog my BF loves.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Wow, I already knew practically all english bulldogs have to have a c-cection during birth since they can't have puppies naturally, specific breeding has really messed up that breed. =/


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

See thats kind of one of my points when handling a situation this way - How do they know this will happen, who witnesses this?


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Oh ok XD
I just wanted to share one of my many useless facts that are stored in my brain

I agree I dunno why they had "WE SHIP SEMEN" instead of something like "WE HAVE A STUD SERVICE(email/call for questions)" lol
but I'd be pretty weirded out by that 

But I'm not a person into dog shows or breeding so maybe those people aren't to worried about that fact?
((not that anyone should be worried I just didn't want to over use the phrases "ickked out" or "weired out" xDD ))


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

I mean...don't quote me on the EB thing, I just remember reading it when I was doing my research on dog breeds ((which fit best with our family...that sort of thing))

I'm sure a breeder might be able to say if it were true or not


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Keithsomething said:


> Oh ok XD
> I just wanted to share one of my many useless facts that are stored in my brain
> 
> I agree I dunno why they had "WE SHIP SEMEN" instead of something like "WE HAVE A STUD SERVICE(email/call for questions)" lol
> ...


Never useless!! I am a sponge right now trying to learn as much as I can. Thanks


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

Olie said:


> Never useless!! I am a sponge right now trying to learn as much as I can. Thanks


Okay need to calrify
Some breeders offer the frozen semen approach. A: So that they do not have to expose their dogs to another incoming female dog. Whether it be to pests or dickness or just stress... Plus the fact that this person (FEMALE dog owner ) may live really far away and they may not want to fly the girl in for a breeding. There are many reasons. Do I think they need to place this on the website ? No I do not ..If you do not show , breed or travel with your dog this would be hard for you to understand..But if you have been in the dog world for a while then this makes perfect senxe to you .... HA HA There are really alot of very strange things that go on out there. they have used the frozen fresh semen thing in cattle for YEARS.. This is not new...


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

oh I know its not new, 
artificial insemination isn't new.
I just ((as a known breeder/shower)) find it odd that thats the way the person chose to advertise it 

and I understand why its done =]


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

bigredpoodle said:


> Okay need to calrify
> Some breeders offer the frozen semen approach. A: So that they do not have to expose their dogs to another incoming female dog. Whether it be to pests or dickness or just stress... Plus the fact that this person (FEMALE dog owner ) may live really far away and they may not want to fly the girl in for a breeding. There are many reasons. Do I think they need to place this on the website ? No I do not ..If you do not show , breed or travel with your dog this would be hard for you to understand..But if you have been in the dog world for a while then this makes perfect senxe to you .... HA HA There are really alot of very strange things that go on out there. they have used the frozen fresh semen thing in cattle for YEARS.. This is not new...


I understand the "need" in some situations and well aware of livestock practices I am not sure the comparison as a customer makes any sense to advertise on your website -it's one of those things that when you see 8 litters all at once with multiple colors I question the breeders practice. It makes no sense to me what their purpose in this is and the tactics some will go too must ultimatly be money in this case. JMHO.

I am not sure on your other comments, they really dont apply to me -as I am not a dumb person and certainly not going to respond. I guess I struck a nerve, IDK.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Also, I think it's a good way to bring in a line that's absolutely not related to your dog, like many in your area might be.

If you have a show dog, female, and want a litter, you also don't have to fly her off for someone else to breed, especially if she's in a show coat, since I imagine it wouldn't be fair for the stud dog owner to have to take care of that while she's in their care.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Also, I think it's a good way to bring in a line that's absolutely not related to your dog, like many in your area might be.
> 
> If you have a show dog, female, and want a litter, you also don't have to fly her off for someone else to breed, especially if she's in a show coat, since I imagine it wouldn't be fair for the stud dog owner to have to take care of that while she's in their care.


What do you mean like many in my area might be?


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Olie said:


> What do you mean like many in my area might be?


If you get a puppy locally and want to breed, you may notice that a lot of the local dogs may be related to your pup. Getting genetics shipped in will broaden the gene pool.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> If you get a puppy locally and want to breed, you may notice that a lot of the local dogs may be related to your pup. Getting genetics shipped in will broaden the gene pool.


Yeah ok...... I know about genetics, artificial insemination and so on..I think the point was missed. I dont agree with the practise on websites and honestly not with any dogs- your comment was ignorant you made and directed just as I read it.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Olie said:


> Yeah ok...... I know about genetics, artificial insemination and so on..I think the point was missed. I dont agree with the practise on websites and honestly not with any dogs- your comment was ignorant you made and directed just as I read it.


No. I am making a general point. I am _not_ specifically attacking anyone. I don't know why you're getting so defensive and offended.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Also, I think it's a good way to bring in a line that's absolutely not related to your dog, like many in your area might be.
> QUOTE]
> 
> This comment did not appear general to me. It seemed like a target at SC.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Also,* I think *it's a good way to bring in a line that's absolutely not related to your dog, like many in your area might be.





Olie said:


> This comment did not appear general to me. It seemed like a target at SC.


I am stating my opinion on the subject of the thread, I don't see how you got out of that that I was targeting anyone - which I am not. Why would I?


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Here, let me rephrase my comment to stop your confusion...

"Also, I think it's a good way to bring in a line that's absolutely not related to the local dogs, like many in the area might be."

Is that better? I am not targetting anyone.. So stop accusing me of it.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> I am stating my opinion on the subject of the thread, I don't see how you got out of that that I was targeting anyone - which I am not. Why would I?


Thats good. And I stated mine - appreciate it.


A couple missed points, I understood the purpose way back <---- I dont think at this point I agree.
BUT to advertise on a website Semen shipped and with the amount of litters they had is STUPID to me. AND what good breeder would accept that. Someone that would out this on their site is money hungry.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Here, let me rephrase my comment to stop your confusion...
> 
> "Also, I think it's a good way to bring in a line that's absolutely not related to the local dogs, like many in the area might be."
> 
> Is that better? I am not targetting anyone.. So stop accusing me of it.


Much. If you say your not then your not sorry- but if you re-read I think you can see where it was implied as I read it. Mistake.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Olie said:


> BUT to advertise on a website Semen shipped and with the amount of litters they had is STUPID to me. AND what good breeder would accept that. Someone that would out this on their site is money hungry.


Well yeah, saying "*HEY, WE SHIP SEMEN *" on a site is off putting.. I agree, and I think, as an earlier poster said, that saying to contact them personally, minus that phrase and the bragging about how many times they've done it, would be a lot more professional.


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

Olie said:


> I cannot help but love these two colors. I might REALLY like to have a silver standard someday.
> 
> I have been searching around looking on sites and stumbled across a site that had LOTS of colors (poodles, mini, standard...) and puppies, grant it was looking real bad already but I thought I would put my knowledge I have gained reading posts on here and there it was in bold letters........ahh pretty purple font: WE SHIP SEMEN, seriously - IMO I think some people go way to far!


Well, I think that depends.
I know a few breeders that ship semen internationally, and I kinda understand if they are trying to improve their line that this might be a good method to use. Especially if you are breeding a rare breed of dog. 
For instance, in my home country there is only one breeder for pharoah hounds... and to improve her line she would either have to inbreed or import dogs from other countries... so I think importing semen would probably be more efficient for her than importing a bunch of dogs from different lines. But that's just my opinion.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

PonkiPoodles said:


> Well, I think that depends.
> I know a few breeders that ship semen internationally, and I kinda understand if they are trying to improve their line that this might be a good method to use. Especially if you are breeding a rare breed of dog.
> For instance, in my home country there is only one breeder for pharoah hounds... and to improve her line she would either have to inbreed or import dogs from other countries... so I think importing semen would probably be more efficient for her than importing a bunch of dogs from different lines. But that's just my opinion.


I can see that. I love the Silver and cannot seem to find anyone to do some research on. I would like to have one in the future but running upon things like that website sours me:scared:


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

Olie said:


> I can see that. I love the Silver and cannot seem to find anyone to do some research on. I would like to have one in the future but running upon things like that website sours me:scared:


Well, I think you really need to talk to the breeders about that. I can understand your concern. I mean I wouldn't buy to people who ship semen as a commodity... so that is why I always ask how much semen they ship and where too? Do they have a screening process as far as who they ship semen too? or do they ship to anyone who pays? How many offspring have been created by their shipments (that is if they even keep a record of it). 
So, I totally see your point, and I agree, some people are in it for the money. But I do know there are breeders to whom this is a serious practice, and they don't ship semen without doing an extensive screening process of who they ship it too.


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

I know of a breeder who only studs out dogs via AI 

even if you ship your bitch to them they AI her. It is more convienient, you dont have to worry about a strange dog chewing off your stud dog's face and such. 
I am actually going to have them ship cooled semen to me, because it is the only way I can breed to the stud I want. 


I guess it is a little offputting, and creepy to put it in bright purple letters. and I would worry about their screening practices.


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

I understand what you mean. It's not the practice but the advertisement. I don't have an issue w/ AI, but it can go too far. I believe the Spoo at Westiminster last year was sired by a dog that's been dead 20yrs (or close to it). That's a little to Sci Fi for me, JMO.


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## vacheron (Jan 6, 2009)

Harley_chik said:


> I understand what you mean. It's not the practice but the advertisement. I don't have an issue w/ AI, but it can go too far. I believe the Spoo at Westiminster last year was sired by a dog that's been dead 20yrs (or close to it). That's a little to Sci Fi for me, JMO.


The dogs name is Ch. Randenn Tristar Affirmation, call name is YES. The sire's name was Ch. Eaton Affirmed, call name Snapper. A very typey and (poodley) male. I copied and pasted an article about it below.. this is the website http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2009/02/yes-was-top-poodle-at-westminster-this.html

http://www.dognews.com/doglinks/sosnoffyes/cover9.5.08.jpg

Sunday, February 15, 2009
The AKC Skates on Thin Ice to the Apocalypse


YES, a product of frozen semen, was the top poodle at Westminster.

Miki broke the story on this blog which The New York Times missed, which is that top Standard Poodle at Westminster was not only sired from frozen semen, but that this long-dead dog has sired hundreds of dogs, as well as more than 10 that reportedly grew up to be dogs with Addison's disease, a serious endocrine disorder.

Does the sire of the top poodle at Westminster carry a genetic load that perhaps should not be passed on? Who knows? A case can be made that nearly ALL living creatures carry such a load, and that this is a very good reason not to inbreed dogs.

This idea is so fundamental that it was obvious to illiterate shepherds living in the deserts of the Middle East more than 4,000 years ago, which is why Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all have prohibitions on incest (see Leviticus Chapters 18-20).

So how inbred is the Westminster Poodle? Quite a lot!

The good news here is that the late John Armstrong, who founded the Canine Diversity Project, did the work on CH Eaton Affirmed (aka "Snapper"), the sire of the current Westminster Poodle winner, and he even drew out a family tree, which, as you can see below, twists back on itself more often than a cable-knit sweater,



The bottom line is that Snapper's 10-generation coefficient of inbreeding is over 30 per cent.

What does that mean? Consider this: In an effort to keep birth defects out of the human population (and to avoid the attendant social costs of providing care to the mentally and physically disabled), we ban marriages between First Cousins in this country.

* Marriage between First Cousins is a 6.25 percent coefficient of inbreeding.

* Having a baby with your Grandmother would result in a 12.50 coefficient of inbreeding.

* Having a baby with your Mother or Father would result in a 25% coefficient of inbreeding.



But Eaton Affirmed, the sire of the top poodle at Westminster has a Coefficient of Inbreeding higher that 30 percent!

Thirty percent!

And this dog has not only sired 150 champions (God Himself has no ides how many puppies he has helped shoot into the world) -- there are plans for him, even in death, to sire more thanks to the miracle of frozen sperm and artificial insemination.

In fact, as The New York Times makes clear, the owners of the current Westminster Winner, Ch. Randenn Tristar Affirmation (aka "Yes") are thinking of impregnating her with frozen semen from her own father!

Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. Doubling down on an already-inbred pup-sicle.

When will the madness stop?

Not any time soon, that's for sure.

In fact, the American Kennel Club, which is desperate for money due to a 53% decline in dog registrations over the last 15 years, is talking about cashing in on a "frozen kennel' program they call "The Future Program"

AKC President Dennis Sprung outlined the plan at the December 16, 2008 AKC delegates meeting:

How many of us have dreamed of breeding to Shirkhan, Ceiling Zero, Dictator or the Brat?

The first priority of the Future Program is the collection of frozen semen for the breeding of outstanding dogs. The second priority is to generate significant revenue for AKC and has four elements: 1. fully subsidize all program expenses; 2. fund an endowment to ensure its continuation; 3. be significantly profitable to AKC; 4. provide any residual income to benefit existing programs – for example: CHF, Museum, the Humane Fund and legislative initiatives.



Do you see any mention in there of health testing?

Any mention of limits on Coefficients of Inbreeding?

Any mention of self-restraint, or even a nod to popular sire problems in existing Kennel Club breeds?

No, of course not!

This is all about the Kennel Club making money.

What does the health and welfare of DOGS have to do with it?

Not a thing!

And so, it is "carry on to the apocalypse."

Why are people no longer buying Kennel Club dogs? It's a complete mystery to Dennis Sprung!


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Interesting to say the least.


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

I had no idea that dog was the sire. I've come across him in pedigrees and it honestly makes me nervous. I don't really understand why someone would use him as a stud, when they are plenty of nice studs out there w/o the health concerns. Thanks for posting that article.


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## vacheron (Jan 6, 2009)

If I do decide to breed my males, I will try my darnest to find females
that aren't related to my boys, and to make sure that the colors of the dams line blend well with my boys parentage. That means no cream or white in the immediate background. Preferably an all black or all brown line. It is true that the gene pool for standards is a small one indeed so I may have a hard time with that!!


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## desertreef (Nov 14, 2009)

You don't know why they would do that breeding?
Have you seen Yes and her record? 
To win.

I pray her health to continue to be well and that of her puppies, but it is a huge concern.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

desertreef said:


> You don't know why they would do that breeding?
> Have you seen Yes and her record?
> To win.
> 
> I pray her health to continue to be well and that of her puppies, but it is a huge concern.


I hear ya But sometimes breeders will go back in the line to keep that winning type It is the dog show world.. Different in alot of ways


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I have a friend who lives in a country very far away, who is wantijng to introduce reds to her area and is wishing to purchase a red to show. If she does she will be the first person in the entire continent to own and show and breed a red. So, it makes sense to ship semen, and makes sense for people to advertise to that kind of audience.

Olie, have you ever looked into Bibelot for a silver... Susan Fraser has been one of the premier breeders of silvers for years. Just a thought.

Why on earth would they resurrect a dog whose COI is so incredibly high.. Just asking for trouble, I would think. The tale may not be told for some time, but eventually the ugly truth will surface in this males grandchildren. What a mess! Thank you for sharing this piece on Eaton Affirmed.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> I have a friend who lives in a country very far away, who is wantijng to introduce reds to her area and is wishing to purchase a red to show. If she does she will be the first person in the entire continent to own and show and breed a red. So, it makes sense to ship semen, and makes sense for people to advertise to that kind of audience.
> 
> Olie, have you ever looked into Bibelot for a silver... Susan Fraser has been one of the premier breeders of silvers for years. Just a thought.
> 
> Why on earth would they resurrect a dog whose COI is so incredibly high.. Just asking for trouble, I would think. The tale may not be told for some time, but eventually the ugly truth will surface in this males grandchildren. What a mess! Thank you for sharing this piece on Eaton Affirmed.


Across country I can understand. And I am sure her advertisement is more subtile than the site I seen. I am working with a wonderful person now I am so excited too, but the information is great to have thank you! I love your dogs too by the way. I look at your pictures all the time


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

http://www.dognews.com/doglinks/sosnoffyes/yes1.html
Here is another story of the dog in question Beautiful !


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

I have frozen semen from My champion Irish Setter amle that SOMEDAY I hope to be able to use ! How else can you keep a dog alive ?


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Exactly. Bibelot has frozen semen from Thinker, the silver boy who lives here. He has sired over thirty five litters, but it was my Moms dream that someday, maybe ten years down the road, he be reintroduced into the silver lines. It would be an asset to the lines for sure...amazing colour, incredible temperament, pups that have gone on to be conformation, obedience, agility, field, herding and hunting champs. Could not ever even dream of it without the technology out there today.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

bigredpoodle said:


> http://www.dognews.com/doglinks/sosnoffyes/yes1.html
> Here is another story of the dog in question Beautiful !


Incredible looking dog and impressive reecord, but at what cost to the future generations of this glorious dogs offspring??


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> Incredible looking dog and impressive reecord, but at what cost to the future generations of this glorious dogs offspring??


Not saying that I agree just pointing out the story . 
the reason for it is obvious .


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## RoyalFields (Dec 20, 2010)

Olie said:


> Not exposed to the other dog?
> 
> Sorry not being trying to be ignorant I truely am not educated enough about breeding but I seriously don't get it. There must be a lot more money involved than i thought.


This is a very GOOD question!

I'll toss my two sents into the conversation and hopefully help answer your question.

Doggy Venereal Disease in addition to diversifying the gene pool. The later has already been nicely covered. 

~canine transmissible venereal tumor

~ Herpes 

~ Brucellosis ... this is a serious issue for a breeder. An infected dog must be altered and in some states put down because this is highly contagious and transferable to humans. One dog can contaminate a whole kennel. Look it up ... for a good read see Brucellosis in dogs: Causes and symptoms - by Frank Will - Helium

Breeding takes education and precaution. It's also very costly when done right. I’m just at the education stage. Hope this helps answer your question.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

I dislike this OLD thread LOL - I over reacted / misinterpreted something and since have moved on. 

Anyway my understanding and clarification is great now. I ended up with a silver from a great breeder.:act-up:


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## partial2poodles (Feb 11, 2010)

I find this stuff fascinating. I didn't know diddly squat when I got my first poodle....I always thought the AKC was sort of a country club, more than a kennel club. Its all in who you know. But I do believe that THINKER's semen reintroduced in the future is such a brilliant idea. Those old type good poodles are getting to be scarcer and scarcer. That's how I feel about my Ben, my silver gentleman.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

I agree - and the AI for me today  is a wonderful option. Also I was not aware of a couple of those STD's in doggy terms.


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

Sorry, Olie. Didn't even notice until the end it was an "old" thread and I was finding it interesting (it took a brief "daytime tv" turn but quickly righted!).

Earlier this month Carter - Kaylen's Moments of Glory - came to New Orleans for Ruby. I paid - as it was more economical for me than leaving work for 4 days and less stressful for my bitch.

Kay was awesome enough to allow this with a brucellosis test for Ruby - so we did 2 live breedings and one fresh AI. 

I learned a LOT! with the AI - even though I grew up on a farm and my brother raises bulls for the PBR. :alberteinstein:

That said - I chose Carter through research - NOT through some highlight on a web page. For me, I'd MUCH rather see an ad in a breed stud issue. An ad on a website is certainly not an animal I would ever want to use.

And as for Yessie...well if there had been anything odd colored in her last litter - I would have been jumping through whatever hoops I could've to be considered for one (read snowball chance in hell - they were all black). 

Both my girls even have Snapper in their pedigrees. Not too surprising maybe, considering the number of times he was used - but to me he isn't nearly as scary as some of the other studs who have sired nations...


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

That said - I chose Carter through research - NOT through some highlight on a web page. For me, I'd MUCH rather see an ad in a breed stud issue. An ad on a website is certainly not an animal I would ever want to use.


Sincerely asked.... Why? (not the research of course).

I have perception problems... I don't always perceive things or understand things in the same way others do. 

To me, advertising is advertising. Where the ad is at doesn't have any genetic influence at all. Why would advertising on a website be a deal breaker for you?

Just curious....

Congratulations on your breeding!


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

yaddaluvpoodles...

'cause I'm a poodle snob snob :drama: with an advertising degree! (and an English degree, but somehow my writing fails to show it!)

Really though, I don't think a purple ticker tape would draw me. I'm completely devoted to this Red AKC Ch goal of mine. For me, that means I have traveled from coast to coast (honestly or maybe ridiculously) to go to shows and breed club meets.

Tip toeing along a rant line now... My goal is to breed a healthy litter with multiple show prospects. To truly do that, I need to understand what makes a good show prospect - taking all things into account- my preferred type, conformation, carriage and temperment, etc - and always health. I also must understand the lines my girls are from and how they develop. I have to brutally critique what I have and where I need improvement (I'm my own harshest critic and I am SO not kennel blind! Constantly I am floored at how kennel blind so many breeders are and how they will deny health issues in their lines- heading into the rant abyss - sorry!)

Anyway, my girls are evidence of the gems in some back yards - Michele's gonna kill me for saying that! ha but can I get an Amen! - so I won't completely discount that there would be a stud out there in another. I just think for me - it's much more likely that I will see a dog in a competition ring (Carter was at PCA in the stud dog class AND in the obedience ring)- go over him - research his pedigree, search for health issues - (gossip about for those not so readily admited health issues!) and chose from that method.

Tabatha


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## Dogsinstyle (Sep 6, 2009)

"I learned a LOT! with the AI - even though I grew up on a farm and my brother raises bulls for the PBR. "

Whoohoo! I am a huge PBR fan!!!!!! Has he had any bulls I may know?
Carole


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

I've only been to one PBR. I was cringing the entire time! Forgive me if I don't understand raising something that wants to hurt you whenever you go to feed it! :afraid:

This year he has a 3 year old in the top 25 so he has been invited to Las Vegas. Sorry I don't know the names. The only one I know is BUZZARD. hee hee It's a South American bull of his. The reason I know his name is because my nephew - by the time he was 3 - would stomp his foot and screw up his face and say in an imitation of his daddy's voice, "BACK OFF! BUZZARD!!!"


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Dogsinstyle said:


> Whoohoo! I am a huge PBR fan!!!!!! Has he had any bulls I may know?
> Carole


Do you know Little Yellow Jacket? My daughter attended school with the son of LYJ's breeder/owner. He's famous here in ND! (the bull, not the son!) :lol:


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

i'm an idiot. i was thinking i hate cheap beer why is everyone all about PBR????


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

faerie said:


> i'm an idiot. i was thinking i hate cheap beer why is everyone all about PBR????


:lol: ound: :lol: Funny, faerie!! You learned something!!


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

And NEVER a rodeo, but a PBR event!!

I know (of) Yellow Jacket, and Kid Rock and Mossy Oak Gunslinger and Belle's Bleu adn Bodacious. (I think I have those names right - ask me about a dog! ha) 

Really, I'm always so worried those guys are going to get hurt. My brother's a huge man - 6'5 - looks like a linebacker - and bull went over on him in a shoot one day - banged him up pretty bad but somehow managed not to break his ribs and standing beside most folks he's a giant. Beside those bulls he doesn't seem big at all. And the riders are small!! guys! I had NO idea! but it makes sense needing to stick to the back of those angry things like they have to do to win (live!).

Sorry about hijacking the thread...


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

One more hijack... have you seen the movie _8 Seconds_? I love/hate that movie! Makes me sob like a baby every time I watch it! Cowboy UP!!


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

Movies for me are total escape. It's my opinion the hero should NEVER die, always get the girl...and get to blow up all bad guys in his path with really cool weapons.

Couldn't stand to watch 8 seconds...


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