# Why the interest in "red" poodles



## Ava. (Oct 21, 2020)

Same reason people like merle, its "different".

I don't see the appeal. White & Silver are my favorites.


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## Liz A (Nov 2, 2020)

Chrissy Teigen has a very cute red standard poodle. Maybe that's part of it?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1213943943861194752
(At least I think it's technically red! I'm no expert.)


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

I've loved reds for the past thirty years or so. It's my first choice for when (if) I decide to get a solid colored dog, followed by brown.

I've loved phantoms even longer, so I'm hoping for a phantom for my first SPoo (of the five males in the litter, one is definitely phantom, one is sable, and the others probably blue or silver).


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

This question recently led to a good discussion: Why red?

Lots of good insights in there.

I think meeting a red toy poodle made me briefly, passionately want one. He was such a sweet little guy. I’d recently lost my grey poodle mix and the pain was so fresh. I naturally gravitated to warm colours that didn’t remind me of her. That little poodle looked like a shiny penny. Very striking.

Now I’m back to loving silver. It’s definitley my favourite poodle colour. But I would happily have one of each.


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## Ava. (Oct 21, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> This question recently led to a good discussion: Why red?
> 
> Lots of good insights in there.
> 
> ...



Is peggy a silver and white parti?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Ava. said:


> Is peggy a silver and white parti?


I’d say she’s probably blue and white. She didn’t have that beautiful light puppy muzzle that silver poodles do. We actually thought she was black, but by her third groom it was apparent she wasn’t. Her colour change began with cute light circles around her eyes.


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## Newport (Jul 16, 2014)

I think the interest in red poodles may be fueled in part by Instagram. They photograph very well.

A few years ago I met a young red toy poodle in an office supply store of all places. She was the essence of delight and beauty. I was completely taken with her. The owners did mention that both her knees had needed repair and the dog was less than 2 years old. With hearts in my eyes 😍 I looked into the breeder and realized I was looking at a BYB. What a letdown. I had to break the bad news to husband who was besotted with the office supply poodle, saying we could not buy from this breeder. 

I never did find a reputable breeder of reds in my area with a dog available in my time frame. Now whenever I get an itch for a red poodle I look at photos of the faded adult color, and read threads such as this one to cool my jets. 

Repeat after me, class: “Color is the least important quality of a dog.”


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Why all the red bashing? Noelle is red. Health tested parents, lovely temperament, working service dog, accomplished rally and obedience dog. Feeling a bit hurt at the moment, like I did something wrong when I got my dog.


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## Liz A (Nov 2, 2020)

Noelle is super cute! I don't think there's anything wrong with it at all, for the record. I think reds are adorable and (not that it's the most important thing, obviously) it's true that my black poodle is nearly impossible to photograph, especially on all of my dark furniture. If she doesn't have her mouth open you can't even tell where her head is.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Click-N-Treat said:


> View attachment 474932
> 
> Why all the red bashing? Noelle is red. Health tested parents, lovely temperament, working service dog, accomplished rally and obedience dog. Feeling a bit hurt at the moment, like I did something wrong when I got my dog.


You absolutely did not! Look at that gorgeous face. And she has such a light in her eyes. I can’t get enough Noelle.

I feel similarly stung when the parti bashing starts, but then I just double down on ensuring Peggy’s the best parti ambassador she can possibly be.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

Red poodle-owner here. Let's just encourage everyone to understand why they want a dog and how to go about getting a healthy one.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dianaleez said:


> Red poodle-owner here. Let's just encourage everyone to understand why they want a dog and how to go about getting a healthy one.


Love that.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

usually I say I cannot stand red poodles, but I adore well bred ones like Noelle and Arreau's poodles


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## Mr.Ziggy (Jul 14, 2020)

It is an important, but delicate topic. Reds are unbelievable beautiful and I completely understand why anyone would want one. I would never question an individual person's color preference, but it is important for the poodle community to notice when the supply and demand are out of balance. 

I will likely want a red of my own some day, and in general I would hate to see any part of the poodle color palette develope issues. 

Noticing trends, discussing why trends might be there, and encouraging good breeding is important. But we have to be careful not to bash someone's personal choice. It makes sense why anyone would want a red, they are drop dead beautiful! 

If poodles in general become overly wanted, we would want to ask why this is happening, but would never want to make someone feel bad for wanting a poodle. They are amazing! Of course you want one!


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## Ava. (Oct 21, 2020)

twyla said:


> usually I say I cannot stand red poodles, but I adore well bred ones like Noelle and Arreau's poodles


 Yep.

I only dislike them (and other non tradional colors) because they are being abused by not so great breeders, to produce for the trends.

For me, the color prefrence is just prefrence. I don't hate any color.


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## eeeeeek (Dec 13, 2020)

Red Poodles are very beautiful and I see the appeal to them, but I think it’s important to know the importance of finding a good breeder. I think that people put too much priority on color sometimes, not recognizing their are other priorities in finding a dog than color.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I don't think it is about red bashing (but I understand your feelings click) so much, I hope, that Joanna was trying to note that not all people breeding for color are as meticulous about some other things like eye and nose leather color where AKC standards are very clear on dark eyes and black leather. One might reasonably wonder what other things might be a bit out of whack. I have seen a few Louter Creek dogs in person and always thought their color was lovely but that they were long in the back as one example. Noelle is a well proportioned girl and has nice dark eyes, but not quite a black nose (which I know some people would find fault with). Arreau is an example of breeder who is trying to put together the color with the body type. I personally would not want a poodle of a fading color (which is all on me to own).


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## karachan (Jan 13, 2021)

lily cd re said:


> I don't think it is about red bashing (but I understand your feelings click) so much, I hope, that Joanna was trying to note that not all people breeding for color are as meticulous about some other things like eye and nose leather color where AKC standards are very clear on dark eyes and black leather. One might reasonably wonder what other things might be a bit out of whack. I have seen a few Louter Creek dogs in person and always thought their color was lovely but that they were long in the back as one example. Noelle is a well proportioned girl and has nice dark eyes, but not quite a black nose (which I know some people would find fault with). Arreau is an example of breeder who is trying to put together the color with the body type. I personally would not want a poodle of a fading color (which is all on me to own).


Seems like Louter Creek is selecting for more than just colour which might be why they are so long in the back. I know they've also had non-red dogs. I don't think they aren't being meticulous because of the red colour... they are breeding working dogs.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

karachan said:


> Seems like Louter Creek is selecting for more than just colour which might be why they are so long in the back. I know they've also had non-red dogs. I don't think they aren't being meticulous because of the red colour... they are breeding working dogs.


I know they are breeding for working hunting dogs, but then shouldn't they conform to standard rather than being long in the back? And I am not beating on Louter Creek. I considered them as a possiblity for a 2nd poodle, but found Madela (closer to home and able to visit before gotcha day along with a host of other reasons).


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## 5girls1guy&apoodle (Jun 12, 2016)

Click-N-Treat said:


> View attachment 474932
> 
> Why all the red bashing? Noelle is red. Health tested parents, lovely temperament, working service dog, accomplished rally and obedience dog. Feeling a bit hurt at the moment, like I did something wrong when I got my dog.


This is in response to recent posts. One of mine being included. Your poodle is beautiful and some people are just rude.


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## karachan (Jan 13, 2021)

lily cd re said:


> I know they are breeding for working hunting dogs, but then shouldn't they conform to standard rather than being long in the back? And I am not beating on Louter Creek. I considered them as a possiblity for a 2nd poodle, but found Madela (closer to home and able to visit before gotcha day along with a host of other reasons).


I assume that longer in the back helps with the retrieving part of hunting which is what they probably care about most. Their dogs look like absolute machines. I imagine they also have a good reason for selecting for a red coat rather than a black coat too (although I am not sure why that is...)


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## 5girls1guy&apoodle (Jun 12, 2016)

My favorite poodle colors are white, red, apricot, silver, sables party poodles, and blues! I don’t think it matters why someone wishes for a certain color. Half of the fun of poodles is that they come in so many colors. They are like rainbows. That’s half the fun. I know of no other breeds that have such variety. I’m not going to share my reason why I was interested in shades of red this time. It was not a question asked out of curiosity. It was a question asked out of judgement on people with different opinions than them.


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## karachan (Jan 13, 2021)

5girls1guy&apoodle said:


> My favorite poodle colors are white, red, apricot, silver, sables party poodles, and blues! I don’t think it matters why someone wishes for a certain color. Half of the fun of poodles is that they come in so many colors. They are like rainbows. That’s half the fun. I know of no other breeds that have such variety.


I love phantom poodles. When I adopted my yorkie 6 years ago I lived next to a couple that had just adopted a black/red phantom standard poodle. What a gorgeous dog. Had the exact same colouring as my yorkie and they got along great which gave everyone a laugh.


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## 5girls1guy&apoodle (Jun 12, 2016)

Liz A said:


> Chrissy Teigen has a very cute red standard poodle. Maybe that's part of it?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1213943943861194752
> (At least I think it's technically red! I'm no expert.)


I don’t think that’s a red poodle.


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## 5girls1guy&apoodle (Jun 12, 2016)

karachan said:


> I love phantom poodles. When I adopted my yorkie 6 years ago I lived next to a couple that had just adopted a black/red phantom standard poodle. What a gorgeous dog. Had the exact same colouring as my yorkie and they got along great which gave everyone a laugh.


I recently saw a picture of the most darling phantom toy poodle puppy when I was talking to a breeder of reds and that little puppy had showed up. He was so cute! It’s so cool that happens sometimes.


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## a2girl (Oct 4, 2020)

I’m about to pick up my red mini poo puppy on Saturday. The funny thing is that I wasn’t really looking for any particular color. I was actually leaning toward black or brown! But I ended up moving forward with the best breeder I could find—one who posted all her health and genetic testing results on OFA. I am still not as gaga for red as some people are—they are pretty but I feel that way about most of the colors—but I am really happy to know that I will have a healthy puppy. I am sure I will love him whatever his color. I suppose I may have to endure people thinking I got him from a puppy mill but will happily educate whenever I can.


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

A2girl, congratulations on your new puppy. Can't wait to see lots of pictures 

I just had a VERY interesting conversation about this today. There is something on this new property that 3 of our 5 dogs are having a reaction to. Since I've spent months trying to find it, it's time to combat it another way so I was at various pet supply places including the farmer's co-op today. I was approached by a lady who said, "Excuse me but don't you have a big poodle? Someone told me you had one of the big ones." I said yes, & dutifully, as any proud dog owner does, I whipped out my smart phone & showed pictures. She said, with wide eyes, "You mean he's not a doodle?" I believe she is sincere in her lack of understanding. I said, "No, ma'am, he's not a doodle. He is a purebred, parti-colored Standard Poodle" & then I explained what she never saw one in the show ring on tv (most folk here have only seen Westminster, an AKC even where us Parti's are not invited). She went on to say that all of her friends had doodles but she wasn't very fond of what she saw in those crossbreds. But she likes the big poodles & thought if she could find one she could get one similarly colored. But she also felt bad because she had a chance at some parti colored puppies but she thought they were doodles or the breeder was deceitful because she had never seen anything but solid colored ones except some doodles.

We talked for a long time & now she's merrily on the Standard Poodle puppy hunt & will be calling the breeder that had the parti colored puppies in hopes that one of the puppies is still available. Thankfully the smart phone & this website was helpful in showing her photos of honest to goodness, non-doodled, non-solid color poodles as well as lovely solids & she could see that the puppy color can & does fade. In the end she was very struck by the white ones & the creams, oohing & ahhhing to the point I don't think it's going to really matter anymore but here is an actual case where the lady thought she'd get a doodle-similar color as it is what her friends have. The only thing she knows for certain is she likes the black points.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

a2girl said:


> I’m about to pick up my red mini poo puppy on Saturday. The funny thing is that I wasn’t really looking for any particular color. I was actually leaning toward black or brown! But I ended up moving forward with the best breeder I could find—one who posted all her health and genetic testing results on OFA. I am still not as gaga for red as some people are—they are pretty but I feel that way about most of the colors—but I am really happy to know that I will have a healthy puppy. I am sure I will love him whatever his color. I suppose I may have to endure people thinking I got him from a puppy mill but will happily educate whenever I can.


I am so excited for you! Now you have less than a week to frantically buy everything you've been putting off! I can't wait to see the pictures! [emoji7]


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

@dogsavvy my husband and a couple of classmates had a similar conversation several years ago, but about size. One classmate bred and showed SPoos, and since he knew I loved SPoos, they were chatting about dogs during a break when the fact that they were originally bred to retrieve birds came up. The third classmate was like "Those little bitty things were bird dogs?!". He'd never heard of Standards before, and thought all Poodles were toy or mini sized.


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## a2girl (Oct 4, 2020)

94Magna_Tom said:


> I am so excited for you! Now you have less than a week to frantically buy everything you've been putting off! I can't wait to see the pictures! [emoji7]


Rest assured, I have been happily collecting what is needed since the sire and dam were bred in November! But I am super excited—it’s been about an 8 month journey. Thanks for your interest. Photos to come!


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

Teamhellhounds,

I get that a lot with my Giant Schnauzer. I've had people argue with me that there are no such things, I've been duped by an unscrupulous breeder. Thank goodness for smart phones. I just pull up breed information & show them. They're like, "OH". It's always annoying to me when people try to educate me on something they're clueless about. I've been told she was a Black Russian Terrier, a Bouvier, even a Doodle. She's out of a long line of champion Giant Schnauzers. Now I have the Standard Poodle who is a black & white Parti & I'm getting that about him. I had an older gent who argued with me & was getting ugly about it. I pulled up my phone & asked it how many sizes of poodles are there... toy, mini, standard... showed him pictures then I asked about parti poodles...shut him down. He had never seen a big one. 

on a funny note, my mother had a toy Poodle who would have been a very good retriever had she been worked with for that. Gritty little dog & she'd try anything Mom aimed her at. She would run out in the middle of the hogs & bark like a mad thing then run for the yard where the Dobermans would come out & put the pigs back into their pasture. Boogers would get out & that little Poodle knew they didn't belong in Mom's garden. Big dynamite in a small package, are some of these Poodles.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

As a breed, Poodles have a rainbow of accepted colors for the AKC show ring. The iconic, and historical winners have been white and black. Red/apricot breeders have been working hard: Arreau, Farley’s, NOLA are producing some gorgeous dogs. One day we will have a red, silver and blue as champions. We even have Grey!!!


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## Foramini (Mar 7, 2016)

PeggyTheParti said:


> This question recently led to a good discussion: Why red?
> 
> Lots of good insights in there.
> 
> ...


After loosing my BLACK Toy Poodle, I just could NOT have another Black - it would make me think of her every time I saw the black. I saw Red and fell hard for them. I also fell for Silver, but Red won out. It took me several YEARS to get my first Health Tested Red from a reputable breeder. I do not regret it one bit. I love all Poodles - but Beware if you are looking for Red, there is a lot of bad breeders out there, along with SCAMS.


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## Foramini (Mar 7, 2016)

5girls1guy&apoodle said:


> I don’t think that’s a red poodle.


It has a white blaze on the chest as well as what looks like blue/grey eyes - I suspect it is some kind of cross?


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

Foramini,
It was like that for my mother in law. She had a teenie tiny little toy. She lost her precious little Pix due to family laziness who wouldn't take the dog to the vet in her owner's absence. The little dog perished & the woman could not be around little white poodles without bursting into tears. So hard for her. We had in training a little black toy poodle a little bigger than hers was but we invited her over (with the owner's permission) to let this senior citizen love him up. Dog & woman had a blast. She's passed away now & I hope she has Pix & can enjoy eternity together. Such a good little dog.



I gotta tell you anyone looking for a red or even apricot Poodle be very careful. I've looked at a lot of puppies that you can bet your best buttons that I'm more Poodle than those puppies are. A lady I know, we're not besties but we've talked dogs for a lot of years. Her "Standard" pup grew up & blows it's coat twice a year & she was stunned I was struggling to learn Poodle grooming. Her dog was simple... then she told me about blowing the coat & I had some questions & they got her to thinking & she had her dog tested. He's only a small percentage Poodle, the rest is lab & golden.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Foramini said:


> It has a white blaze on the chest as well as what looks like blue/grey eyes - I suspect it is some kind of cross?


I think it is brown, not red. Brown is typically accompanied by liver nose and amber or hazel eyes. The white on the chest is neither here nor there; lots of litters, even from champion lines, will have a couple of pups with mismarks.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

There are a ton of unsavoury red breeders- people who only breed for the colour and not quality. But there are a handful of red Standard breeders working their tails off improving with each generation to improve the structure and health of their lines. I have worked my butt off for MANY years to produce quality in both health and conformation and am finally getting what I've been striving for. This little girl- CH. Arreau's Don't Stop Believing (Gilda) finished her championship in eight days at eight months old. I am incredibly proud of her. And we have some creams and blacks I have bred that will produce colour and will continue to help me improve for generations to come


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Stunning


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

ArreauStandardPoodles said:


> There are a ton of unsavoury red breeders- people who only breed for the colour and not quality. But there are a handful of red Standard breeders working their tails off improving with each generation to improve the structure and health of their lines. I have worked my butt off for MANY years to produce quality in both health and conformation and am finally getting what I've been striving for. This little girl- CH. Arreau's Don't Stop Believing (Gilda) finished her championship in eight days at eight months old. I am incredibly proud of her. And we have some creams and blacks I have bred that will produce colour and will continue to help me improve for generations to come


Honestly, my hats off to you. Gilda is drool worthy. I also like your female Journey, I think & King Creole, her son, ... I could look King Creole for days. The color is stunning 😍


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I dream of one day having one of your beautiful standards.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

Well this is certainly an interesting thread.. I have been working on a red line for almost 20 years.. After a few unexpected setbacks I am pleased with my lines , the health temperament and structure of course being so important.. I must say that a color holding red dog is not always easy to find .. I sent this boy to Russia a year ago and so far he is JR champion .. I have high hopes that his color will stay .. His sire is still very dark red at almost ten .. His mother is also red at 5 .. It is an interesting color to produce ....


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

FWIW, I don’t believe Chrissy Tiegan has ever claimed to have a ‘purebred standard poodle’. It’s a rescue pup. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ya...-rescue-criticized-kris-jenner-195437087.html

I love seeing arreau’s beautiful dogs, and if it were a different time in my life, I might be considering a NOLA dog instead of staying close to home because the reds really are stunning. But blacks are also stunning and really my first love. I love a black dog, of any breed.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Starla said:


> FWIW, I don’t believe Chrissy Tiegan has ever claimed to have a ‘purebred standard poodle’. It’s a rescue pup. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ya...-rescue-criticized-kris-jenner-195437087.html
> 
> I love seeing arreau’s beautiful dogs, and if it were a different time in my life, I might be considering a NOLA dog instead of staying close to home because the reds really are stunning. But blacks are also stunning and really my first love. I love a black dog, of any breed.


Chances of that "rescue" being legit are about as high as Misha's chances of winning Westminster.


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## Liz A (Nov 2, 2020)

Uff, sorry! I did not mean for this to spin into a discussion of Chrissy Teigen and John Legend’s dog choices, merely pointing out that _they_ have identified him a standard poodle (and again I’m no expert, but if you look at more recent pictures of him, purebred or not he clearly has a lot of poodle of him, although they keep him in a doodle-y clip minus the clean feet), and he is red-ish(?), so given their media exposure it may have increased people’s interest in this combination, even if only subconsciously.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

I do not disagree. 



Raindrops said:


> Chances of that "rescue" being legit are about as high as Misha's chances of winning Westminster.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Raindrops said:


> Chances of that "rescue" being legit are about as high as Misha's chances of winning Westminster.


Lol. My thoughts exactly.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

bigredpoodle said:


> Well this is certainly an interesting thread.. I have been working on a red line for almost 20 years.. After a few unexpected setbacks I am pleased with my lines , the health temperament and structure of course being so important.. I must say that a color holding red dog is not always easy to find .. I sent this boy to Russia a year ago and so far he is JR champion .. I have high hopes that his color will stay .. His sire is still very dark red at almost ten .. His mother is also red at 5 .. It is an interesting color to produce ....


Your boy is gorgeous! Reds are very pretty, as are all the others as well!


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

@bigredpoodle- stunning red! That is a beautiful dog.
Arreau- also beautiful reds!

I understand the fascination with color, it’s hard not to be attracted to a stunning color. I’m partial to parti colors, and originally intended to buy a mini parti color. However, I got discouraged by the lack of quality in breeders of mini parti colors, there seemed to be better breeders of parti Spoos but I didn’t want a big dog.

So I adjusted my search to concentrate on quality over color and wound up with a black mini (with a mismark) from champion lines. I could not be happier...and I have a new appreciation of how gorgeous an inky black coat is on a poodle. She is like black velvet. Because of her, I am now fascinated with black poodles- go figure!

I do appreciate the caution when the main criteria is color. However, I think it’s great that dedicated folks are breeding for quality in colors beyond black and white,and that bodes well for the future of poodles.


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## Thomazine (Aug 9, 2020)

When I first started browsing dog breeds online, it was an arresting photo of a gorgeous apricot standard poodle which caught my attention - standing out in a field, reddish tail like a banner in the wind. (It was Shyre’s website.) I didn’t actually know poodles could look like that (I had the white show dog stereotype in my mind) and I started doing research on the breed then.

I have a black poodle boy now, but he’s her great-grandson. He is gorgeous, but so much harder to photograph than his red siblings!


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## JJ❤cavaliers (Mar 24, 2021)

This has been an interesting discussion, and I liked hearing everyone's opinions. I think reds are cute, and their are breeders out their who responsibly breed them, but color shouldn't come in the way of health and temperament.


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## Rupert's Poodle (Feb 27, 2021)

I like the red. Yes perhaps it is the bear look. I originally told myself red but I'm open to other colors too. (when)


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

bigredpoodle said:


> Well this is certainly an interesting thread.. I have been working on a red line for almost 20 years.. After a few unexpected setbacks I am pleased with my lines , the health temperament and structure of course being so important.. I must say that a color holding red dog is not always easy to find .. I sent this boy to Russia a year ago and so far he is JR champion .. I have high hopes that his color will stay .. His sire is still very dark red at almost ten .. His mother is also red at 5 .. It is an interesting color to produce ....


Wow, Bond certainly got blessed in the color department. That's a stunning red.


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## KaratRanch (Mar 1, 2021)

Johanna said:


> I am concerned that so many people are looking for "red" poodles. Has there been something on TV or social media about them?
> 
> Breeding for an uncommon color leads to neglect of the things that are really important: health, conformation, and temperament. . I would urge anyone who is "seeking a red poodle" to consider why they want that color.


I think you’re mixing apples and oranges here. I have a 2 year old red poodle from an impeccable breeder, that’s bred for 20+ years. I’ve owned black and cream as well but was drawn to her dogs for color AND the amazing temperament and structure of her dogs. Reputable breeders will always promote the breed and breeders in it for a buck will cut corners, no matter the color.


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## Cyajmelendez (Nov 4, 2020)

I have a beautiful red boy, he’s 7! He’s the sweetest dog, very intelligent and also very needy😆. He was gifted to me by a breeder because he had “flaws” that wouldn’t be acceptable for Showing. But I think he’s absolutely perfect. His red has faded a bit since he’s gotten older. I think people should consider that. Are they not going to love them as much if their original color fades?! I hope not.


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

Johanna said:


> I am concerned that so many people are looking for "red" poodles. Has there been something on TV or social media about them?
> 
> Breeding for an uncommon color leads to neglect of the things that are really important: health, conformation, and temperament. . I would urge anyone who is "seeking a red poodle" to consider why they want that color.


I am not sure why you should be concerned... There are a lot of reputable breeders on this forum and off, who have been doing their best to improve the red poodle and have done so successfully. As for breeding for color and forgetting all else works with any color poodle, including the parties and the phantoms. The buyer needs to be aware the do his/her homework.

And if I can insert it properly here is the picture of my late, great Brandy, aka Princess Brandolinne. She passed in 2016.


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## Christy (Aug 21, 2013)

Johanna said:


> I am concerned that so many people are looking for "red" poodles. Has there been something on TV or social media about them?
> 
> Breeding for an uncommon color leads to neglect of the things that are really important: health, conformation, and temperament. . I would urge anyone who is "seeking a red poodle" to consider why they want that color.


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

bigredpoodle said:


> Well this is certainly an interesting thread.. I have been working on a red line for almost 20 years.. After a few unexpected setbacks I am pleased with my lines , the health temperament and structure of course being so important.. I must say that a color holding red dog is not always easy to find .. I sent this boy to Russia a year ago and so far he is JR champion .. I have high hopes that his color will stay .. His sire is still very dark red at almost ten .. His mother is also red at 5 .. It is an interesting color to produce ....


Gorgeous reds!!!! I miss mine so much!!!


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## LoveMyRedToyPoodle (Sep 15, 2019)

IMHO, red poodles are striking! I don't think it's wrong to prefer a red, apricot, parti color, brown or any other legitimate poodle color for that matter. Poodles _legitimately_ come in all of these colors. The "merle" is another story though! Please don't buy a "merle" poodle as it is a pattern that poodles do not naturally come in and no reputable breeder will breed merles. The merle gene has to be introduced into the poodle via another breed of dog. Also, if you ever see a poodle with blue eyes, it's not a pure bred poodle. Here's my red boy on the grooming table:


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## Christy (Aug 21, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> I know they are breeding for working hunting dogs, but then shouldn't they conform to standard rather than being long in the back? And I am not beating on Louter Creek. I considered them as a possiblity for a 2nd poodle, but found Madela (closer to home and able to visit before gotcha day along with a host of other reasons).





Poodle Lover said:


> I am not sure why you should be concerned... There are a lot of reputable breeders on this forum and off, who have been doing their best to improve the red poodle and have done so successfully. As for breeding for color and forgetting all else works with any color poodle, including the parties and the phantoms. The buyer needs to be aware the do his/her homework.
> 
> And if I can insert it properly here is the picture of my late, great Brandy, aka Princess Brandolinne. She passed in 2016.
> 
> View attachment 475023


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## pepperR (Aug 22, 2013)

I have a Black & Apricot toy poodle both around 5 pounds. My black female is 11 and my Apricot/red is 7.(he was called red initially and much darker as a puppy) I love both colors but it is easier to photograph him than her!


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## Enzo.toypoodle (Oct 22, 2020)

red poodle mom here-

I think it’s the color people think is very cute and teddy bear like. However I agree. It’s worrisome and there are so many backyard breeders now for this color. So sad and I just hope all the black and white poodles are finding good homes. If we get another I would not want to continue feeding this red poodle craze. These dogs look cute on social media but are HIGH MAINTENANCE. I worry because I think there is no way all these homes can sustain the mental and physical needs of these dogs.


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## Connie Custer (Mar 14, 2021)

Johanna said:


> I am concerned that so many people are looking for "red" poodles. Has there been something on TV or social media about them?
> 
> Breeding for an uncommon color leads to neglect of the things that are really important: health, conformation, and temperament. . I would urge anyone who is "seeking a red poodle" to consider why they want that color.


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## Rosie's Mom (Aug 9, 2014)

Johanna said:


> I am concerned that so many people are looking for "red" poodles. Has there been something on TV or social media about them?
> 
> Breeding for an uncommon color leads to neglect of the things that are really important: health, conformation, and temperament. . I would urge anyone who is "seeking a red poodle" to consider why they want that color.


I have a red standard who is 9. The red standards were started by the late Ilse Konig of Shangri La kennel. Ilse was in Germany and met with a breeder who was trying to successfully have red standard poodles. Ilse began with a red large miniature and worked to breed to larger dogs. Ilse passed about 10-11 years ago. I purchased our Rosie from Vision Kennels. Her dogs mostly reds but some apricots were bred for good health and temperament. Many of her poodles are therapy dogs. Just like some folks like white, black, silver, apricot or black poodles, some of us love the reds. Rosie has kept her color pretty well.


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## Connie Custer (Mar 14, 2021)

Johanna said:


> I am concerned that so many people are looking for "red" poodles. Has there been something on TV or social media about them?
> 
> Breeding for an uncommon color leads to neglect of the things that are really important: health, conformation, and temperament. . I would urge anyone who is "seeking a red poodle" to consider why they want that color.


Isn't there room for responsible breeding and personal preferences of color? I am looking for a fine young adult Std Poodle and I happen to prefer Red, Apricot or maybe brown. And I am also thrilled when I see a black or white regal beauty strolling down the street with their loving owner. Variety is the spice of life.


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## Connie Custer (Mar 14, 2021)

Click-N-Treat said:


> View attachment 474932
> 
> Why all the red bashing? Noelle is red. Health tested parents, lovely temperament, working service dog, accomplished rally and obedience dog. Feeling a bit hurt at the moment, like I did something wrong when I got my dog.


Never apologize for what or who you love! Love Noelle! A real adorable beauty! She complies with the "standards", has a lovely temperament (the best qualifier!0 and she responds to training that you gave her. Never feel you did anything wrong... May I have her? (Of course I can't... Dang!).

PS I must add that I am looking for a guy or gal Std just like her. If anyone has a young adult that needs a new home I would be the BEST Mom.


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## Retro Chick (Nov 20, 2020)

The flip side to this is that there are plenty of breeders who breed for everything but color because “color isn’t important,” and then they breed together colors that should never be bred together like brown and white or red and brown or dogs with color faults etc. This dilutes colors and produces liver points on colors that should have black points and weird white spots start to show up. A really great breeder breeds for all parts of the standard, they should strive for a great dog that looks as close to breed standard as possible. Any breeder that doesn’t have a balanced approach to all parts of the breed’s standard is doing a disservice to the breed. Don’t be fooled by altruism that comes from breeders or amateurs like ourselves on this forum.
Color is an important part of breeding, especially in poodles. Bad and good breeders exist in all spectrums of the poodle rainbow, and yes, it is easy to become enamored with color and forget everything else so one should make a solid effort not to downplay the other aspects of a dog when choosing a breeder, but don’t swing that pendulum so far that you ignore color altogether.


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## karachan (Jan 13, 2021)

bigredpoodle said:


> Well this is certainly an interesting thread.. I have been working on a red line for almost 20 years.. After a few unexpected setbacks I am pleased with my lines , the health temperament and structure of course being so important.. I must say that a color holding red dog is not always easy to find .. I sent this boy to Russia a year ago and so far he is JR champion .. I have high hopes that his color will stay .. His sire is still very dark red at almost ten .. His mother is also red at 5 .. It is an interesting color to produce ....


Oh my... it has nothing to do with the colour for me, this is probably the most beautiful poodle I've seen. I love his face. Just wow.


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

I have been an Apricot lover and owner a very long time. I recently talked with a breeder who helped me with understanding Poodle genetics/markers for colors. I'm learning about all the color combinations it takes to produce only solid colors. It's alot more involved than when I bred GSDs. You can't just go by pedigree including colors like you can with GSDs. When you introduce phantom, brindle, parti, whatever ... you turn breeding solids into a nightmare as far as I'm concerned. Breeding is for purity and bettering the breed to the standards. I know there are a lot of parti people here. I don't mean to offend but you can't fault trends, like wanting reds, when you yourselves own the trends, like partis. All poodles need homes and they, as a breed, are all outstanding. I'm waiting for my newest baby now. Solid black. She will throw ... black, apricot, and red. There's white in their and needed for apricot. It's not that easy. Makes my head spin. Anyways, as long as people educate themselves, breed and chose a responsible breeder, choice is still that, choice. People pick and fall in love with what's available. I fell in love with the blacks on a beach one day. It was chasing a frisby. I know people will buy what's available if the breeding keeps producing options. It contaminates the standards and in some cases has produced problematic inline breeding. There you have it, my opinion on why trends. It's mine only probably. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Red's are stunning when they are correct with all their black points.


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

karachan said:


> I assume that longer in the back helps with the retrieving part of hunting which is what they probably care about most. Their dogs look like absolute machines. I imagine they also have a good reason for selecting for a red coat rather than a black coat too (although I am not sure why that is...)


During hunting season of the Autumn colors, they blend in with the leaves and tall grasses.


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## karachan (Jan 13, 2021)

Jilly SummerSunset said:


> During hunting season of the Autumn colors, they blend in with the leaves and tall grasses.


That makes a lot of sense !


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

ArreauStandardPoodles said:


> There are a ton of unsavoury red breeders- people who only breed for the colour and not quality. But there are a handful of red Standard breeders working their tails off improving with each generation to improve the structure and health of their lines. I have worked my butt off for MANY years to produce quality in both health and conformation and am finally getting what I've been striving for. This little girl- CH. Arreau's Don't Stop Believing (Gilda) finished her championship in eight days at eight months old. I am incredibly proud of her. And we have some creams and blacks I have bred that will produce colour and will continue to help me improve for generations to come


Absolutely stunning! 😍


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

bigredpoodle said:


> Well this is certainly an interesting thread.. I have been working on a red line for almost 20 years.. After a few unexpected setbacks I am pleased with my lines , the health temperament and structure of course being so important.. I must say that a color holding red dog is not always easy to find .. I sent this boy to Russia a year ago and so far he is JR champion .. I have high hopes that his color will stay .. His sire is still very dark red at almost ten .. His mother is also red at 5 .. It is an interesting color to produce ....


OMG! That is an absolutely fabulous red! 😛🤤 drool worthy. Congrats! 💕😊


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

Poodle Lover said:


> I am not sure why you should be concerned... There are a lot of reputable breeders on this forum and off, who have been doing their best to improve the red poodle and have done so successfully. As for breeding for color and forgetting all else works with any color poodle, including the parties and the phantoms. The buyer needs to be aware the do his/her homework.
> 
> And if I can insert it properly here is the picture of my late, great Brandy, aka Princess Brandolinne. She passed in 2016.
> 
> View attachment 475023


😔 lovely. 💕


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Hold 'er Newt! I obviously did not state my concerns clearly. Over the past 50 years I have seen quite a few fads in purebred dogs. The current one is the French bulldog. In the past there have been times when German shepherds, cocker spaniels, and poodles were the most popular breeds. Whenever a breed or a particular segment of a breed becomes popular, the unscrupulous start producing poor quality dogs with that trait. 

Certainly there are people who have worked hard to develop dark apricot poodles of excellent overall quality (Arreau and NOLA are great examples of such). BUT . . . any time there is public demand for a particular trait, there will be people who will breed any two dogs with that trait together with no concern whatsoever for other important traits. 

FYI, my first poodles were apricot toys from Puckshill kennels in England. My daughter showed one of them in obedience. He got lots of attention - not for his color but because he always did the long down lying on his back.


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## Cats&Poodle (Aug 26, 2020)

Aside from my natural admiration for auburn haired/furred beauties of all species(!) - which, who knows why I’ve loved that color from a young age? - I love red poodles for other practical reasons as well: 

I have a black cat that is difficult enough for me to see in low light even with her bright green eyes... which can be dangerous both for her physical safety and mine (e.g. accidentally getting kicked / tripping on her) so a black poodle with dark eyes would be even more treacherous for me.

I’ve lived in places where the dirt doesn’t just get animals/clothing dirty, it permanently
stains them with pigment, so I’m averse to getting a white/light colored poodle.

Although I find brown poodles really beautiful (and practical for my reasons above), especially with their lighter eyes that glow in the sun, I’m not a fan of liver points (the pink undertones make me subconsciously think the animal is sick or sunburned).

So for some of us red poodle-lovers it’s not only aesthetics (which, as an artist, I think there’s nothing wrong with having a purely aesthetic preference!) but also practical considerations as well. (I tend to over analyze things prior to making a decision, so those are my thought processes on the topic, fwiw)


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## dogsavvy (Mar 6, 2015)

Okay, I gotta say I'm converted. I've seen red but not of the quality I'm seen now.


Rosie's Mom said:


> I have a red standard who is 9. The red standards were started by the late Ilse Konig of Shangri La kennel. Ilse was in Germany and met with a breeder who was trying to successfully have red standard poodles. Ilse began with a red large miniature and worked to breed to larger dogs. Ilse passed about 10-11 years ago. I purchased our Rosie from Vision Kennels. Her dogs mostly reds but some apricots were bred for good health and temperament. Many of her poodles are therapy dogs. Just like some folks like white, black, silver, apricot or black poodles, some of us love the reds. Rosie has kept her color pretty well.


Okay, now this is fascinating to me. I wondered where the red started & when it showed up. Thank you for sharing this information. I love it when someone posts something I can put in my colors files that tells me where it came from (or at least where work went into it to get the color strong in the breed).

In general, I have to say it's quite possible this thread has made a bit of a convert of me. Breeders names who have been listed here have had me just drooling at their dogs both reds & apricots. If I were a teenager with pinup posters on my walls... Arreau's King Creole & his mother Journey would have a place of prominence. 

When I was searching for SPOOs (before I found Mr. Layne), I avoided a lot of colors because I didn't have enough knowledge of what was legit & what was actually true/correct for the breed. So anything I wasn't certain about: red, sable, brindle, harlequin, merle, phantom, etc... I just stayed away from breeders who even bred those. To be blunt, if someone doodles & believes in it then they should be doing the work & be proud of their work. I may not agree with it. I may not want a doodle but they shouldn't be hiding it. Mixing in merle & passing them off as a purebred poodle is fraudulent. I did not want a fake poodle. After I got Mr. Layne I continued to search & learn & this board has been a HUGE asset to my poodle education. Now that I know more there are colors that are back on my list: phantom is a favorite, sable is another, &... now red (I affectionately blame Arreau & those breeders who have worked hard to bring on dogs who are stunning in all ways &... oh yes, they are red in color). If I were a kid & had posters on the wall of cute boys... Arreau's King Creole would have a place of prominence on my wall, LOL.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I have the same feelings, dogsavvy. I feel cheated that I came so late to poodles, because a red standard from Arreau, NOLA, or Farley’s will be only in dreams. I wanted a black poodle, and I got that, but since I was new to poodles, I didn’t know the rainbow of accepted colors. I will continue to root for other colors to take the winners circle in big shows. It’s not just black and white


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Just don't breed for color! Or any one trait.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

dogsavvy said:


> Okay, I gotta say I'm converted. I've seen red but not of the quality I'm seen now.
> 
> 
> Okay, now this is fascinating to me. I wondered where the red started & when it showed up. Thank you for sharing this information. I love it when someone posts something I can put in my colors files that tells me where it came from (or at least where work went into it to get the color strong in the breed).
> ...


That is soooo sweet! Thank you!!


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## farleysd (Apr 18, 2011)

I've been breeding red and apricot standard poodles for over 30 years. It has been a most rewarding adventure! I have also accomplished sereral "first's" in the color. When I began there were a handful of red and apricot breeders in North America, regretfully today there are still only a handful of "ethical" breeders of the color. One or two are the same ones from way back when, and a few new ones who are dedicated to the improvement of the color. Remember ALL poodle breeding is supposed to be to improve on the poodle standard set by the nationally recognized poodle club of each country, Poodle Club of America, Poodle Club of Canada, and so on. Conscientious ethical breeders strive to breed a poodle with an equal balance of health, temperament, and conformation! I refer to an equilateral triangle, all the sides are as equal in importance. This should be in a requirement in any and every color. 

We have seen throughout the years that there is quality in red and apricot poodles. Nola, Arreau, Lumiere, Patriot, Lido, to name a few, have demonstrated their dedication to the color. "As they say, the proof is in the pudding!" My boy Santiago received a 'Specialty Best In Show' last weekend at the Greensprings poodle club specialities, with some extreme competition. 

But, any and all puppy buyers need to do their homework! Need to research their potential breeder, check out all credentials, see how each breeder 'proves' the quality of their breeding parents. Do they show in conformation or another venue to show they have a purpose for breeding. Do they have champions, or other titles? Do they test? Research pedigrees? PLAN. Or do they breed color for color sake? I know I have gone through a lot of scrutiny over the years from the breeders of traditional colors, I am sure the others I have mentioned have as well: we will continue because of the love of the poodle and the love of the color!


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Congratulations on Santiago's successful outing.


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## farleysd (Apr 18, 2011)

cowpony said:


> Congratulations on Santiago's successful outing.


Thank you


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

farleysd said:


> I've been breeding red and apricot standard poodles for over 30 years. It has been a most rewarding adventure! I have also accomplished sereral "first's" in the color. When I began there were a handful of red and apricot breeders in North America, regretfully today there are still only a handful of "ethical" breeders of the color. One or two are the same ones from way back when, and a few new ones who are dedicated to the improvement of the color. Remember ALL poodle breeding is supposed to be to improve on the poodle standard set by the nationally recognized poodle club of each country, Poodle Club of America, Poodle Club of Canada, and so on. Conscientious ethical breeders strive to breed a poodle with an equal balance of health, temperament, and conformation! I refer to an equilateral triangle, all the sides are as equal in importance. This should be in a requirement in any and every color.
> 
> We have seen throughout the years that there is quality in red and apricot poodles. Nola, Arreau, Lumiere, Patriot, Lido, to name a few, have demonstrated their dedication to the color. "As they say, the proof is in the pudding!" My boy Santiago received a 'Specialty Best In Show' last weekend at the Greensprings poodle club specialities, with some extreme competition.
> 
> But, any and all puppy buyers need to do their homework! Need to research their potential breeder, check out all credentials, see how each breeder 'proves' the quality of their breeding parents. Do they show in conformation or another venue to show they have a purpose for breeding. Do they have champions, or other titles? Do they test? Research pedigrees? PLAN. Or do they breed color for color sake? I know I have gone through a lot of scrutiny over the years from the breeders of traditional colors, I am sure the others I have mentioned have as well: we will continue because of the love of the poodle and the love of the color!


Congrats on Santiago! 🐩 Specialty titles! Whew-hoo!!!


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## farleysd (Apr 18, 2011)

Jilly SummerSunset said:


> Congrats on Santiago! 🐩 Specialty titles! Whew-hoo!!!


Thank you!


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Jilly SummerSunset said:


> During hunting season of the Autumn colors, they blend in with the leaves and tall grasses.


So do the deer. During the various hunting seasons up here in the UP of Michigan it is a good idea for all dogs (and people) to wear bright orange vests ! I even have my white spoo wear one as several rare albino deer have also sadly been shot.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

farleysd said:


> My boy Santiago received a 'Specialty Best In Show' last weekend at the Greensprings poodle club specialities, with some extreme competition.


Yea! Congratulations for sure


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

farleysd said:


> My boy Santiago received a 'Specialty Best In Show' last weekend at the Greensprings poodle club specialities, with some extreme competition.


 Huge congratulations and a satisfying reward for your hard work.


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

kontiki said:


> So do the deer. During the various hunting seasons up here in the UP of Michigan it is a good idea for all dogs (and people) to wear bright orange vests ! I even have my white spoo wear one as several rare albino deer have also sadly been shot.


😳 I don't hunt. I stay out of the woods in fall unless I'm riding a horse. I love to hear the leaves crunching below them during the ride. Good point. I'll orange up if I go for a walk. Thanks.


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## Diane Bowman (Jan 15, 2021)

Johanna said:


> I am concerned that so many people are looking for "red" poodles. Has there been something on TV or social media about them?
> 
> Breeding for an uncommon color leads to neglect of the things that are really important: health, conformation, and temperament. . I would urge anyone who is "seeking a red poodle" to consider why they want that color.


When you say red are you referring to the copper color? My poodles dad was copper and mom was white, my girl is cream which people tell me is rare...I have no idea as she is my first poodle.


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## Diane Bowman (Jan 15, 2021)

Click-N-Treat said:


> View attachment 474932
> 
> Why all the red bashing? Noelle is red. Health tested parents, lovely temperament, working service dog, accomplished rally and obedience dog. Feeling a bit hurt at the moment, like I did something wrong when I got my dog.


Beautiful dog!


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

Diane Bowman said:


> Beautiful dog!


That looks red to me! 😁 cutie!


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

All of these pics except the very last include an Apricot mother, she's wearing the cheetah witch hat, I'm including her baby 8 week old pic too at the end. The rest are my apricot 10 year old, her daughter, who is a stunning shade which changes with the seasons from dark to almost cream. The last stunning girl was her litter mate sister. She was white?, I thought cream. Their father was white. Mom apricot. Colors are fascinating.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

farleysd said:


> I've been breeding red and apricot standard poodles for over 30 years. It has been a most rewarding adventure! I have also accomplished sereral "first's" in the color. When I began there were a handful of red and apricot breeders in North America, regretfully today there are still only a handful of "ethical" breeders of the color. One or two are the same ones from way back when, and a few new ones who are dedicated to the improvement of the color. Remember ALL poodle breeding is supposed to be to improve on the poodle standard set by the nationally recognized poodle club of each country, Poodle Club of America, Poodle Club of Canada, and so on. Conscientious ethical breeders strive to breed a poodle with an equal balance of health, temperament, and conformation! I refer to an equilateral triangle, all the sides are as equal in importance. This should be in a requirement in any and every color.
> 
> We have seen throughout the years that there is quality in red and apricot poodles. Nola, Arreau, Lumiere, Patriot, Lido, to name a few, have demonstrated their dedication to the color. "As they say, the proof is in the pudding!" My boy Santiago received a 'Specialty Best In Show' last weekend at the Greensprings poodle club specialities, with some extreme competition.
> 
> But, any and all puppy buyers need to do their homework! Need to research their potential breeder, check out all credentials, see how each breeder 'proves' the quality of their breeding parents. Do they show in conformation or another venue to show they have a purpose for breeding. Do they have champions, or other titles? Do they test? Research pedigrees? PLAN. Or do they breed color for color sake? I know I have gone through a lot of scrutiny over the years from the breeders of traditional colors, I am sure the others I have mentioned have as well: we will continue because of the love of the poodle and the love of the color!


HUGE congrats on Santiago's big win!! That is awesome! He is a stunning boy.


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## farleysd (Apr 18, 2011)

Jilly SummerSunset said:


> Congrats on Santiago! 🐩 Specialty titles! Whew-hoo!!!


Thank you


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## farleysd (Apr 18, 2011)

kontiki said:


> Yea! Congratulations for sure


Thank you


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## farleysd (Apr 18, 2011)

ArreauStandardPoodles said:


> HUGE congrats on Santiago's big win!! That is awesome! He is a stunning boy.


Thank you!


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