# A peek at the color coming...



## spoowhisperer (Apr 26, 2010)

Just sharing what I see when I part his coat. The color around his head is darker, and actually much of his color is from being sun burnt, but now when I brush and part his hair I see this. Am missing his dark hair : (

Kai by maryac58, on Flickr


Color changes by maryac58, on Flickr


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

He is a beautiful boy and is going to be just as stunning throughout all of his color changes!


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## spoowhisperer (Apr 26, 2010)

ChocolateMillie said:


> He is a beautiful boy and is going to be just as stunning throughout all of his color changes!


Aww, thanks. No matter what his color, I love him to pieces. I have been going through his puppy pics and am surprised to see how dark he was.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Oh WOW!!!! He is so gorgeous, and it is going to be so interesting to see him when this change is complete. And may I say again what a remarkable job you do of grooming him!


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_I don't know what color he is going to end up, but I do know that he is one stunning boy!!_


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## Rayah-QualitySPs (Aug 31, 2010)

spoowhisperer said:


> Just sharing what I see when I part his coat. The color around his head is darker, and actually much of his color is from being sun burnt, but now when I brush and part his hair I see this. Am missing his dark hair : (


Dear Spoowhisperer;

Your poodles' colour is *brown*. No matter what he fades to he is brown because he has a brown nose! I can not see the toenails but I hope they are also brown. According to the CKC breed standard poodle colours are: _blues, greys, silvers, browns, café-au-laits, apricots, and creams, 
_ the PCA breed standard also lists the same colours.

The majority of brown poodles are born a nice dark, almost black, brown and then they fade out. Sometimes it might start at 9 months with a standard other times it can start after two years. One of the things that can happen is the poodle really fades out before two but then after that they start to go a little bit darker every year until they are about 8 or 9.

One of the best things about a brown poodle is they will always keep you laughing!!!!!!!!

If you would like to see some different brown colours of standard poodle e-mail me and I will send you some pictures.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Rayah-QualitySPs said:


> Dear Spoowhisperer;
> 
> Your poodles' colour is *brown*. No matter what he fades to he is brown because he has a brown nose! I can not see the toenails but I hope they are also brown. According to the CKC breed standard poodle colours are: _blues, greys, silvers, browns, café-au-laits, apricots, and creams,
> _ the PCA breed standard also lists the same colours.
> ...


Actually, Rayah, her poodle is Silver Beige, not brown. And that is not based on my assessment, but her breeder's.  And her breeder is well versed in the brown spectrum, and, if I am correct (let me know if I am not, Spoowhisperer!), her breeder even was featured in an article in Poodle Variety where she discussed the difference between Silver Beige, Cafe and Brown.

It has been very fun over the past year or so to watch Kai's color change on this forum. It has been known the entire time that he is Silver Beige and some of us didn't believe it because he was so dark! It is quite evident now, especially if you go back and look at some of Spoowhisperer's threads. You can see how his color is quite drastically clearing to Silver Beige. 

Why do you say that having a liver nose makes a dog brown? Brown, Silver Beige and Cafe, all being in the brown _spectrum_ have liver or brown noses.


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## Gorky (Jul 14, 2009)

Kai is so beautiful and your second photo does show the color difference very clearly. He looks great whatever his color and you have a variety of colors on which to feast your eyes. How even more interesting your life with Kai is/will be because of it.


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## Rayah-QualitySPs (Aug 31, 2010)

ChocolateMillie said:


> Actually, Rayah, her poodle is Silver Beige, not brown. And that is not based on my assessment, but her breeder's.  And her breeder is well versed in the brown spectrum, and, if I am correct (let me know if I am not, Spoowhisperer!), her breeder even was featured in an article in Poodle Variety where she discussed the difference between Silver Beige, Cafe and Brown.
> 
> 
> Why do you say that having a liver nose makes a dog brown? Brown, Silver Beige and Cafe, all being in the brown _spectrum_ have liver or brown noses.


Too funny ChocolateMillie! Is the brown spectrum a different colour than brown? A dog *born* dark brown out of black or brown parents is a brown regardless of how much it fades or greys out.

You are right that I do not know who the breeder of this dog is but I do know the Canadian and American Poodle Breed Standard. 

I am fairly certain that this dog is *brown* based on its nose and not apricot or cream. A silver beige colour is not mention in either breed standard yet.

It is nice to see as time goes on how the marketing of poodles has changed. Many years ago few would register their poodles as blue and now more and more colour names are being used. Change may be a good thing. Only time will tell.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Rayah-QualitySPs said:


> Too funny ChocolateMillie! Is the brown spectrum a different colour than brown? A dog *born* dark brown out of black or brown parents is a brown regardless of how much it fades or greys out.
> 
> You are right that I do not know who the breeder of this dog is but I do know the Canadian and American Poodle Breed Standard.
> 
> ...


You sure are pleasant. 

The "brown spectrum" includes silver beige, cafe and brown. Each their own color and registered as such. Cafe and silver beige are born brown. If you were to look at photos of Kai on this forum, you would see that he had the typical beige face when shaved as a small puppy.

A silver beige poodle is not "brown" just as a silver poodle is not "black." If the breed standard does not specifically mention silver beige, then clearly you should be calling this dog a "cafe au lait" as he is obviously a dilute and not brown.

Just because the breed standard does not mention parti poodles, does that mean that a black and white parti poodle is not a black and white parti poodle? Does this mean that a sable poodle is not a sable poodle? You are really something and have quite the little attitude!


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## sandooch (Jan 20, 2011)

I say let's end the suspence and just shave Kai down to a half inch of hair.  Just kidding, spoowhisperer. I've just always been the anxious type. ;p


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## spoowhisperer (Apr 26, 2010)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> Oh WOW!!!! He is so gorgeous, and it is going to be so interesting to see him when this change is complete. And may I say again what a remarkable job you do of grooming him!


I so agree that it will be interesting to see where he ends up color wise. No matter what his color is, I'm o.k with it. Very nice compliment about the grooming, thank you. I really appreciate when others chime in to point out what needs to be done differently, sometimes I just can't see what needs to be done you know? I do like Kai all puffy! : b


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## spoowhisperer (Apr 26, 2010)

spoospirit said:


> _I don't know what color he is going to end up, but I do know that he is one stunning boy!!_


Oh thanks! He sure is fun to photograph, love the challenge of capturing his pretty face. You know what I mean as you too love to photograph your dogs!


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Sometimes I'm still confused between cafe and silver beige, but whatever color he is now, or will be, Kai is always the mini that I go to when I want to look at one!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Kai is spectacular looking, and that's not seeing things through rose colored glasses. He is simply magnificent! I loved watching Chagall's color clear. For a time his topknot looked like I tie-dyed it. Some people find it hard to believe he's the same "black" poodle I brought home two years ago. It took me _months _to get the vet to switch Chagall's medical record file from calling him "black" to silver. What does Kai's vet have him down as? I mean besides _stunning?! _ Kai has made me a_ major _fan of silver beige, that's for sure!


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## all that jazz (Feb 6, 2011)

Spoowhisperer, your poodle is beautiful, brown, reddish brown, or silver beige. His face is exquisite. I know how jarring it is to see such a color change. I have a brown mini, and I would be taken aback if his color was to lighten a lot, if I wasn't prepared for it. (I already notice the fine grey hairs on his back). However, no matter what color Kai is, he obviously is your adored dog with all of his characteristics and personality. In addition, you have the added benefit of him being beautiful no matter what. Just try to go with the color change, you will get used to it as time passes and he will still look beautiful to you.


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## spoowhisperer (Apr 26, 2010)

Rayah-QualitySPs said:


> Dear Spoowhisperer;
> 
> Your poodles' colour is *brown*. No matter what he fades to he is brown because he has a brown nose! I can not see the toenails but I hope they are also brown. According to the CKC breed standard poodle colours are: _blues, greys, silvers, browns, café-au-laits, apricots, and creams,
> _ the PCA breed standard also lists the same colours.
> ...


I appreciate hearing your thoughts on this! I guess time will tell, I know he still has quite a bit of color to him, but he has until next May to finish clearing. His breeder claimed him to be a silver beige, in fact his photo was in the PV mag in the April-May 2010 issue. The article was Silver-Beige, Café-au-Lait, Blue, Gray, etc.,
by Anne Seppo, Amity Poodles
Here are a couple of photos of Kai in his litter, he is the lightest puppy, the second from the end on the right side.
I have to believe that Anne Seppo is well versed in her colors, so right now I'll trust that Kai will be silver beige. However, (secretly) crap, not a secret anymore, but I'd like his color to stay as is.


101_0423 by maryac58, on Flickr

101_0419 by maryac58, on Flickr


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## WestCoastSpoo (May 11, 2011)

sandooch said:


> I say let's end the suspence and just shave Kai down to a half inch of hair.  Just kidding, spoowhisperer. I've just always been the anxious type. ;p


lol I LOVE this idea!! Just kidding, but I feel the same way about seeing Huxley's silver coming in at the bottom of some of his DARK black hair! It's so weird to me to have gone from wanting a black that NEVER fades, to wishing my puppies coat would change FASTER! haha Kai is absolutely BEAUTIFUL! And I love his little puppy pictures! You can definitely pick him out by the color of his face!


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Kai is gorgeous, though...I don't normally like browns I find him Absolutely stunning!!!

I'd like to interject that I don't the rayah was beg rude or copping an attitude, she was just stating her opinion from breeding browns for quite some time...


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

He's absolutely gorgeous! 

His hair in the second picture looks a little like mine when it's been too long between salon visits


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Keithsomething said:


> Kai is gorgeous, though...I don't normally like browns I find him Absolutely stunning!!!
> 
> I'd like to interject that I don't the rayah was beg rude or copping an attitude, she was just stating her opinion from breeding browns for quite some time...



Well, I disagree, but anyway...

Rayah told somebody that their dog is not "silver beige", even though the dog's very knowledgeable breeder identified the dog as such. It is very obvious that Kai is not "brown"as he is clearing much the same as a silver. To call Kai "brown" would be the same as calling an apricot dog red or a blue or silver dog "black".

"Silver Beige" is an option when registering a color for a puppy, so I am not sure why Ryah is so convinced that this is not a color.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

I think its really just a matter of splitting hairs, Pam never said Kai wasn't a silver-beige (and wasn't saying that it doesn't exist...unless I read her posts wrong) she just simply said he was brown...its basically the same thing you have said, only worded differently and coming from someone with 15+ years breeding browns...

Doesn't really matter what colour he is, Kai is stunning ^_^
it'll be interesting to see what colour he completely clears to in time :]]


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## spoowhisperer (Apr 26, 2010)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Sometimes I'm still confused between cafe and silver beige, but whatever color he is now, or will be, Kai is always the mini that I go to when I want to look at one!


About the confused part, me too! I'm just glad I did not choose Kai based on his color lol! Oh, and being you like to look at him, and being I LOVE to take photos, I'm happy to oblige you with photos! : )


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Keithsomething said:


> I think its really just a matter of splitting hairs, Pam never said Kai wasn't a silver-beige (and wasn't saying that it doesn't exist...unless I read her posts wrong) she just simply said he was brown...its basically the same thing you have said, only worded differently and coming from someone with 15+ years breeding browns...
> 
> Doesn't really matter what colour he is, Kai is stunning ^_^
> it'll be interesting to see what colour he completely clears to in time :]]


That is not the way that I interpreted what she said, but everyone interprets things differently. 

I interpreted that she said that Kai is brown, because there is no mention of silver beige in the PCA or PCC poodle breed standard. 

I found that to be quite "bold" (for lack of a better word) of her to essentially claim that Kai's breeder mislabeled his color. She has been breeding poodles since 1969 and has quite some experience breeding browns, cafe au laits and silver beige.


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## spoowhisperer (Apr 26, 2010)

Keithsomething said:


> I think its really just a matter of splitting hairs, Pam never said Kai wasn't a silver-beige (and wasn't saying that it doesn't exist...unless I read her posts wrong) she just simply said he was brown...its basically the same thing you have said, only worded differently and coming from someone with 15+ years breeding browns...
> 
> Doesn't really matter what colour he is, Kai is stunning ^_^
> it'll be interesting to see what colour he completely clears to in time :]]


I have no problem with what Pam said as she knew nothing of Kai, other than this thread with a couple of photos. Very understandable, so no biggie.
Thanks for the nice words Keith, I too think he is kinda fun to look at.


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## spoowhisperer (Apr 26, 2010)

sandooch said:


> I say let's end the suspence and just shave Kai down to a half inch of hair.  Just kidding, spoowhisperer. I've just always been the anxious type. ;p


LOL! Oh you tempter you! Believe me, so many times I have stood with the clippers over Kai asking myself if I should just take it all off! But MAN, I'm just so used to him being fluffy! I can't do it!


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