# Squatting or Lifting Leg



## Lilah+Jasper (May 13, 2010)

Jasper is 3 years old and still squats. I don't think he has ever even tried to lift his leg...


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## Ginagbaby1 (Aug 1, 2011)

Casper is 10 months old and he also squats unless we are on a walk and there is a pole. (He was neutered last month). Then he will lift his leg to pee against the poll but otherwise he's a squatter.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

My nearly 3 year old mpoo does_ both!_ He didn't begin lifting his leg until he was 11 months old. Now he's pleased as punch to leave "pee mail" as high up on any post, telephone or tree he can when we're out walking. He'll also pee-squat at points along the way, too. I can't predict what he'll do at any given time, and often wonder how he decides which "technique" to use!:confused3:


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## Lily (Feb 29, 2012)

This is useful information... So when do you need to neuter your male poodle to prevent him from lifting his leg to pee? I m hoping that mine will be a squatter too as I am potty training him with cat litter... BTW mine's a toy...


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

My male mpoo, neutered about 6 months, always squatted.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

seelie unaltered 11 months old ... been lifting about a month. pees all over the back of his front leg. 

then he wants to hug me :ahhhhh:

my male german shepherd was unaltered and never lifted his leg.
my male cairn terrier lifts his leg so high i'm surprised he doesn't topple over.


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## jettabaz (Jan 18, 2012)

Jovi is eight and a half months and squats. I have never seen him even try to lift his leg.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

My intact, 16 month old male still squats!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Although I can understand the convenience of having a boy who doesn't cock his leg, especially if you are using a litter tray, the usual advice is not to neuter until the leg lifting is well established. It is a sign that all the hormonal changes involved in reaching adulthood have been completed - there is a lot of research showing that neutering too early can have health and behavioural implications.


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## Lily (Feb 29, 2012)

fjm said:


> Although I can understand the convenience of having a boy who doesn't cock his leg, especially if you are using a litter tray, the usual advice is not to neuter until the leg lifting is well established. It is a sign that all the hormonal changes involved in reaching adulthood have been completed - there is a lot of research showing that neutering too early can have health and behavioural implications.


BUT if I neuter him after his leg lifting is well established, it defeats the purpose! If he is just a pet poodle, not a working poo or show poo, does it still matter? This is a dilemma... Anyway i have other reasons of neutering, such as, not wanting him to start marking in the house and going after bitches in heat. Anyway I know there are already many threads about neutering so I won't hog up Kmom's thread here :bounce:


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I've always heard that leg lifting was both a hormonal and/or learned behavior. Plenty of dogs develop leg lifting ling after being neutered.


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## Lily (Feb 29, 2012)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I've always heard that leg lifting was a learned behavior. Plenty of dogs develop leg lifting ling after being neutered.


:shocked: :scared:


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Lily said:


> :shocked: :scared:


Just wondering...what exactly is so horrific about leg lifting?

ETA: I went back and read. You want him to use a litter box. Well, leg lifting is a normal and natural dog behavior. You may just have to take him outside to potty if he begins to lift his leg.


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## Lily (Feb 29, 2012)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Just wondering...what exactly is so horrific about leg lifting?


It's messy... Idk, maybe it's a girl thing, I still prefer squatters... Hahaha...


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Lily said:


> It's messy... Idk, maybe it's a girl thing, I still prefer squatters... Hahaha...


As the owner of a squatting white male...I gotta say...I think both are equally gross! He pees all over his front leg - from pastern to elbow.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Summary of research into the effects of spaying and neutering dogs - The Long Term Effects of Spay/Neuter in Dog - downloadable here: White Papers - Animal Welfare | Animal Rights | National Animal Interest Alliance


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## Lily (Feb 29, 2012)

faerie said:


> seelie unaltered 11 months old ... been lifting about a month. pees all over the back of his front leg.
> 
> then he wants to hug me :ahhhhh:


This is why... Messy...

Also, I'm training him to use a litter tray indoors, I don't want him to pee out of the tray... Unless I can teach him to aim properly... Heck! Some men can't even perfect that... :laugh:

Just joking guys... No offence intended...


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## Lily (Feb 29, 2012)

CharismaticMillie said:


> As the owner of a squatting white male...I gotta say...I think both are equally gross! He pees all over his front leg - from pastern to elbow.


Eeewwwww...... Doggy nappies then? Hahaha.... I don't have the time to wash him everytime he pees.... Let's just hope my boy has good aiming skills *fingers crossed*

Erm... I live in an apartment you see...


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Lily said:


> This is why... Messy...
> 
> Also, I'm training him to use a litter tray indoors, I don't want him to pee out of the tray... Unless I can teach him to aim properly... Heck! Some men can't even perfect that... :laugh:
> 
> Just joking guys... No offence intended...


I can't imagine Tiger using a litter box even as a squatter. Literally the aim is horrendous. Straight out for the leg. Trust me, it's equally disgusting. Henry lifts his leg to the heavens and he only sometimes pees on himself - usually if he starts walking before he's done. :act-up:


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## afkar (Dec 9, 2011)

My boy (neutered at 13 months) does both. Usually he squats but sometimes he decides to lift his leg. Fortunately he is very clean & has never peed on himself.


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## Lily (Feb 29, 2012)

afkar said:


> My boy (neutered at 13 months) does both. Usually he squats but sometimes he decides to lift his leg. Fortunately he is very clean & has never peed on himself.


How lucky for you... *envy*

I read somewhere that neutering BEFORE he develops leg lifting habit ( 8-9 months?) will USUALLY ( not always but most of the time ) help him remain a squatter. I'm not so sure about this but a few websites have mentioned it...


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Lily said:


> Eeewwwww...... Doggy nappies then? Hahaha.... I don't have the time to wash him everytime he pees.... Let's just hope my boy has good aiming skills *fingers crossed*
> 
> Erm... I live in an apartment you see...


Oh no, wet naps don't do the job. I keep a plastic tub with a towel outside sometimes to dip his legs. Or I do a quick leg bath in the Bathtub every few days. Or sometimes I use pee pants!!


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## Lily (Feb 29, 2012)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Oh no, wet naps don't do the job. I keep a plastic tub with a towel outside sometimes to dip his legs. Or I do a quick leg bath in the Bathtub every few days. Or sometimes I use pee pants!!


Hmm... I googled pee pants... I live in a tropical country, very hot climate all yr long, don't think it's suitable...

Quick leg baths twice a day sounds feasible since mine's a tiny toy... Won't take up too much time either...


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think I would build a three sided box around the tray, covered with melamine or some other easily cleaned surface. He will want to pee against an upright surface, and it would be easy to wipe down.

I have a dog staying with me at the moment, with a belly band and Tena Lady's to avoid inevitable problems with marking. I have to admt that he very quickly starts to whiff!


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Lily said:


> This is useful information... So when do you need to neuter your male poodle to prevent him from lifting his leg to pee? I m hoping that mine will be a squatter too as I am potty training him with cat litter... BTW mine's a toy...


I do not believe that neutering has anything to do with whether a male dog squats or lifts his leg. I think, typically, lifting the leg and "marking" is a trait most male dogs do at some point --- some more than others. Jake, for instance, lifted his leg since he was a pup and would lift it so very high and mark high on a tree, post, etc., and only squatted after his CCL surgeries, as I presume it was tough on the knee joint....Sunny, for instance, occasionally will squat, if he really has to go and there is no, um, target in sight; he will also stand on the grass and lift a leg and pee, without a "target" and then there are the "targets" where he lifts his leg -- and checks for "pee mail". Since he is new to this area, and a 4 y.o. mpoo, he is lifting his leg more, as he is marking his territory (presumably). I saw a show on Discovery channel where they discussed the function of male animals "marking" on a tree, etc., and the higher the animal could mark, the higher they (their scent = them) were perceived to be in the pack. Some bears, they said, would actually get on their front paws (sort of like a handstand) in order to mark the tree highest. It was an interesting show.


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## DivinityPoodles (Jan 23, 2012)

:rofl:

I can just see the handstand...

Cale is almost 16 months, unaltered and does both. He also pees on front legs regardless of whether he is squatting or lifting a leg. Yuck! He started to lift his leg around a year, 8 months is not uncommon, it just depends on the dog.


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## Huxtable (Feb 19, 2012)

fjm said:


> Although I can understand the convenience of having a boy who doesn't cock his leg, especially if you are using a litter tray, the usual advice is not to neuter until the leg lifting is well established. It is a sign that all the hormonal changes involved in reaching adulthood have been completed - there is a lot of research showing that neutering too early can have health and behavioural implications.


Is that really true? My little boy is almost 6 months and I'm trying to figure out when is the best time to get him altered.... there are soooo many theories out there it's hard to know whose right.... some say wait until after there second fear imprint stage, some say wait til they left their leg... its so hard to know what to do!! lol.


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

Player who was about 2 yrs old (a standard) almost never lifted his leg. Someone on PF told me that it is a learned behavior. He was not around any other males...maybe that is why. 

As far was peeing on themselves...my 2 year old female pees on her back bracelets..she likes to pee on the sidewalk and it runs on her bracelets as she walks around. Ive never seen anything like it. She walks the entire time she pees or poops..I wonder if it has anything to do with living in a kennel with an outside run for pottying..anyway, I use pee pants on just her back legs most of the time. They are very easy to get on and off.


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

Guess I'm lucky. Beau is 2-1/2 and has never lifted his leg. But he squats quite effectively, and he's never peed on his front legs. Must be harder for spoo, though, with those long legs; Beau is only inches off the ground when he squats, so it's hard to miss.


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## Kloliver (Jan 17, 2012)

liljaker said:


> I saw a show on Discovery channel where they discussed the function of male animals "marking" on a tree, etc., and the higher the animal could mark, the higher they (their scent = them) were perceived to be in the pack. Some bears, they said, would actually get on their front paws (sort of like a handstand) in order to mark the tree highest. It was an interesting show.


I've heard that too & explains why my boy (almost 14mo) hikes so high he almost tips over. He started around 10 mo... My DH was soooo proud *lol*


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Huxtable said:


> Is that really true? My little boy is almost 6 months and I'm trying to figure out when is the best time to get him altered.... there are soooo many theories out there it's hard to know whose right.... some say wait until after there second fear imprint stage, some say wait til they left their leg... its so hard to know what to do!! lol.


The research summary - link posted above - is a good place to start. In essence, the balance in terms of health and behavioural issues is probably NOT to neuter males, but the health risks need to be balanced against the risks to the dog from roaming, or being impossible to live with because of marking, or of adding to the unwanted litters of pups in shelters, etc. Neutering before growth has finished can cause the dog to continue to grow, and lead to an increased risk of joint and ligament issues, such as cruciate ligament tears. There is also some evidence that early neutering can leave a dog with life-long puppy/adolescent behaviour traits. So if you do decide to neuter, it is probably better to leave it as late as possible. But only you can weigh up the pros and cons in your particular circumstances, and for your particular dog.


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## rebel66 (Mar 6, 2012)

*My standard pup Finn, (4 months) just barely squats, its very hard to even notice, and it seems like he just lets the pressures off. He comes back in the house, gets playing around with my lab and the next thing you know... UH OH, big puddle. He pees on his feet and back of his front legs too btw. Yuck!*


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## Siskojan (Mar 13, 2011)

Sisko was neutered at 6 months, started leg lifting at just over a year and nearly always lifts his leg wherever he is. Sometimes starts in a squat and lifts as an afterthought and has been known to change legs midstream on a long pee after he's been holding it.


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## Kloliver (Jan 17, 2012)

Siskojan said:


> Sisko [...] has been known to change legs midstream on a long pee after he's been holding it.


now THAT must be funny to watch. Leg cramps? :act-up:



fjm said:


> The research summary - link posted above - is a good place to start. In essence, the balance in terms of health and behavioural issues is probably NOT to neuter males, but the health risks need to be balanced against the risks to the dog from roaming, or being impossible to live with because of marking, or of adding to the unwanted litters of pups in shelters, etc. Neutering before growth has finished can cause the dog to continue to grow, and lead to an increased risk of joint and ligament issues, such as cruciate ligament tears. There is also some evidence that early neutering can leave a dog with life-long puppy/adolescent behaviour traits. So if you do decide to neuter, it is probably better to leave it as late as possible. But only you can weigh up the pros and cons in your particular circumstances, and for your particular dog.


VERY well summarised fjm


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## Ryker's_Mom (Mar 21, 2012)

Ryker, a tpoo/mpoo has always squatted and never lifted his leg. He was altered as soon as he reached the age/weight requirement.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

Leroy was neutered at 12 weeks (not my choice). He's a well adjusted dog. He squatted until he turned a year old. Then he began lifting his leg. He will lift when there's a tall plant or post. He does it really awkwardly though, and can't lift his leg really high like some dogs. Also, he has horrible aim whether squatting or lifting. He'll lift his leg to pee on a post but his pee stream isn't strong enough so basically all the pee pools right next to what he's trying to pee on. He also pees all over his front leg if he turns his body when he squats. He will lift on some targets and halfway through get lazy and end up squatting.

Female dogs like Leroy because he is not obsessed about following them around and sniffing their behind. On walks, he will mark maybe 2-3 times. My Havanese is two and was neutered at that age. He lifts his legs super high (if there is a pole), has great aim, and marks like 20 times on walks. He tries to squeeze every last drop and always has to "get the last word in" by peeing over stuff Leroy pees on. He loves to sniff the ladies' butts so much that they get annoyed with him. He definitely has more testosterone than Leroy. I always have to worry about him marking in new environments.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

the pee smell on the back of seelie's legs sucks.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

faerie said:


> the pee smell on the back of seelie's legs sucks.


Isn't it horrendous?


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## KristaLynn (Mar 22, 2012)

My female toy mix lifts her leg! Once on a walk someone behind us eventully caught up and passed us commented that she must be a boy because she was peeing on everything. Durring the winter she also climbs the snow banks to pee at the top so no big dogs pee higher!!


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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

Potsie does both. He usually squats when there's no tree/bush nearby, but he'll usually hike his leg when there's a tree/bush available. Sometimes, he'll squat and partially lift one leg at the same time - silly boy!


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## afkar (Dec 9, 2011)

Joey does the same as Potsie. My female Tia also semi squats but lifts her leg & "marks" territory. She is 7yo now & has been doing it ever since I got her as a mature dog.


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## lfalz (May 10, 2013)

fjm said:


> Although I can understand the convenience of having a boy who doesn't cock his leg, especially if you are using a litter tray, the usual advice is not to neuter until the leg lifting is well established. It is a sign that all the hormonal changes involved in reaching adulthood have been completed - there is a lot of research showing that neutering too early can have health and behavioural implications.


Hairy Potter. BEGAN lifting at 4 months. He is neutered and 6 months and lifts all the time....sigh such an over achiever. he will squat once in a while but even then its a high squat and once leg cocked out to direct the pee! LOL!


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## Milo :) (Mar 10, 2013)

Own turf, squat.

New turf, polite lift of the leg.

New turf where another dog has peed, or if another dog is present..he hikes his leg.

The highest I've ever seen his leg go was when he was copying a dog at the dog park that had just peed on a tree.

He is nearly 8 months old and unneutered. Planning to get him neutered around his first birthday.


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

Charlie (1.25 yrs old) neutered at 6 months old which is about the same time he learnt to lift his leg to pee. Like Chagall's Mom said, sometime Charlie would squat too or lift his left leg then lift the right one, he let his legs take turn. Lol. It is amusing for me to walk him, really!

I live in an apt and Charlie pee outside and inside in a litter box. He's been like this since 4 months old.

Will he lift his leg while peeing inside the litter box? Absolutely! 
Will there be a mess in his legs? Absolutely! 
Will there be a mess on the floor occasionally? Absolutely! 
Will he after he pee then step into it then step out of the box to leave a pee trail on your floor? Absolutely!

Here is what you need:
1. A good mop for dry/wet purposes.
2. A wet wipe. Wipe him every time after pee and/or poo inside and/or outside, even if you know for sure he doesn't need it.


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

faerie said:


> the pee smell on the back of seelie's legs sucks.


Edison is more yucky than Charlie. He squats then steps in his pee which resulted in a yellow stained fur on his back feet. Eeeewwww!!!! Luckily Edison is not too freak out about getting a bath. If it were up to me, I'll bath him daily but with Charlie, my self restrained is getting better, so I usually will just wash his back legs in warm water with soap.

The funny thing is every time Charlie poo in his litter box, he has the need to announce it to us. So last night DH and I were in the midst of pillow talk when all of a sudden Charlie jump in the middle of us bringing the icky smell with him. :argh:

We checked his litter box to clean but no poo there so DH took him out and Charlie poo outside. We realized it was only a prelude to poo.


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## Ciscley (Jul 16, 2013)

*Adult neuter still squats*

Danno was being used in a BYB program before Pals for Paws rescued him. They had him neutered at what we estimate was 5 years of age. He squats unless on a walk and there is no place to squat or the grass is longer than usual and wet. Even his lift is a bit of a squat though, so we've never seen any leg hair casualties. 

Unrelated but worth mentioning, since he was fully, erm, developed before the neuter, it took a while for his scrotum skin to shrink. Definitely had to keep reminding the poor groomer of that.

Edited to add that during a really long pee, like the first of the day, he will slowly stand up from his squat into a perfect show pose. It's one of the only times our scarred rescue sweetheart looks regal. I'm tempted to photograph it, but it just seems so wrong to do.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

all right. i just have to join this thread to tell this story. my lowchen was neutered at about six months of age. he does not lift his leg. he tried it once - slightly - when he was about 3 or 4 - and that was it for a long time. he is going to be 16 this year. a few years ago, when he was about 10, one day he suddenly lifted one leg - but not against a pole or tree. i thought he was about to embark upon leg lifting. but no, he kept squatting until a few days later when he lifted his other leg. i thought, oh, this really is the beginning. nope. then a few days later he lifted his left front paw while urinating! you could see him thinking as he did this. he has never lifted his leg again. i told this story once to a group at the condo where i live and one of the guys said in disgust, "he is just stup..." and cut himself off before stepping in it, so to speak. i actually think my dog decided it wasn't worth the effort to lift his leg. he's a couch potato anyway and the only dog i know who has never liked walks and dislikes the car. 

my female lowchen was not a leg lifter, but she was definitely a scent marker - as in every few feet. 

so is it nature or nurture that governs leg-lifting? imo it's nature - but every dog's nature differs.


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## Milo :) (Mar 10, 2013)

liljaker said:


> I saw a show on Discovery channel where they discussed the function of male animals "marking" on a tree, etc., and the higher the animal could mark, the higher they (their scent = them) were perceived to be in the pack. Some bears, they said, would actually get on their front paws (sort of like a handstand) in order to mark the tree highest. It was an interesting show.


haha yeppp..like this!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Milo :) said:


> haha yeppp..like this!


*My guy can manage that, even without a tree! *


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## Jacamar (Jun 2, 2012)

When I was a kid we had a dalmatian and mini daschund. Whenever the dalmatian would pee, the daschund would hurry over and pee on top of it. They were both female!

Panda lifts his leg sometimes, squats other times. Can hit his front legs either way. :sad:

Will shave his legs down soon hoping he learns not to hit them. 

He's 11 months old, not neutered. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## loves (Jul 2, 2013)

Though not a Spoo, Faelan was well over a year old when he started lifting his leg, and he still only does it when he is next to a tree or something. Otherwise, he pees in his "stallion stance" no squat, just reminds me of a stallion relieving himself.


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