# Milo doesn’t like strangers petting him



## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

I’m not sure what to do about this. Milo doesn’t like being petted on the head. Personally, I don’t think he owes it to the world to be okay with strangers coming up to him and moving their hand quickly and unexpectedly toward his face. I wouldn’t like that, either. When someone asks to pet him, or looks like they’re coming toward him without asking, I’ll tell them he doesn’t like to be petted and ask that they just put their hand out for him to sniff instead. This works well. Also, he is fine with being handled by the vet and the groomer.

My concern is that when someone reaches out to pet him before I can intercept them, he opens his mouth and tries to catch their hand with his teeth. It truly seems to me that he’s trying to intercept them, not to bite them. My worry is that one day somebody will interpret this as him being a dog who bites.

My questions are: Should I be worried, and if so, what can I do to train him to react differently? I also think my husband and son are part of the problem. I have told them from day one that we shouldn’t be roughhousing with Milo in a way that involves him putting his mouth on their hands, yet they continue to do this.😡

By the way, he’s a 5.5 pound toy. This happens when I’m holding him and he’s at a level where people can easily reach out to him. I think it’s just as important for little dogs to have good manners as big dogs, but I thought I’d mention this in case it makes a difference.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

PF has multiple threads on this topic - Milo is being a poodle and a small one at that. Reaching over his head is a threatening gesture.

We all have go-to solutions that involve protecting the dog from invasive species. I never get close enough to strangers that they can reach Normie. If asked, I offer a dog treat to them to give him or suggest that they hold out a hand and then DO NOT TOUCH HIS HEAD.


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## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

Dianaleez said:


> PF has multiple threads on this topic - Milo is being a poodle and a small one at that. Reaching over his head is a threatening gesture.
> 
> We all have go-to solutions that involve protecting the dog from invasive species. I never get close enough to strangers that they can reach Normie. If asked, I offer a dog treat to them to give him or suggest that they hold out a hand and then DO NOT TOUCH HIS HEAD.


That’s very helpful. Thank you.


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## WinnieThePoodle (Sep 1, 2020)

Winnie doesn't like strangers touching her head and she tries to dodge their hand. I just tell them to tickle her under the chin instead of touching the top of her head.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Is he perhaps getting overexcited? And that’s why he’s grabbing at their hand?

I don’t think people should pet strange dogs on the head, and I have no trouble coaching someone on how best to approach my dog, but sometimes life just doesn’t work out that way. Sometimes they’re there and petting before you even realize what’s happening.

For that reason, I worked hard on desensitizing Peggy to rudeness from a young age. I would click and treat for a pet on the head or back. (She actually found the back more challenging.)


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

None of my poodles like strangers touching their topknot. I just jokingly say "don't mess up the hair, it took hours to get it that way!" I usually laugh whilst saying that and it's generally respected. That way, I don't make my dogs seem strange and I don't insult the friendly person. The only nutter is me  . If they really are interested in learning more about poodles, and dogs in general, then I slip the info in, that dogs are uncomfortable with a hand coming in from above.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I think you are right to want to deal with all of this effectively. I can't blame your little guy for not welcoming strangers reaching for his head. It is really intrusive and frankly pretty rude for people to do this, all the more so since it happens when you are holding Milo since they are intruding into your personal space too. I would ask people not to come so close to you. If someone tries to be polite about doing so though I would feel free to ask them how to touch him and ask them not to if you don't think the situation is going to be successful. Keep some small treats that Milo likes with you and ask the person to give him one if they seem to be dog savvy types. 

I do also think not rough housing with toy sized dogs is a general good plan. They are so fragile and we are like giants to them...too easy to scare and too easy to hurt even just by accident.


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## LittleCloud (Apr 21, 2021)

WinnieThePoodle said:


> Winnie doesn't like strangers touching her head and she tries to dodge their hand. I just tell them to tickle her under the chin instead of touching the top of her head.


Nano is a hand dodger too. If people ask to pet him I tell them no or that it's up to Nano to decide if he's okay with it and that he doesn't like head pets, depends on the situation. I'd like it if more people saw small dogs as individuals with agency rather then cute things for them to touch whenever they want.

I hate it when people touch him without asking especially if I'm holding him, he can't say no and they are invading my space too. Luckily he's pretty tolerant. 

If you know or have a trainer you could ask them for help to do some exercises to desensitize Milo. Something like getting the hand closer and closer to his head and each time click'n'treat until he gets that head pets = treats, that is if you want him to like it.


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## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

Wow, thank you everybody for your thoughtful replies! After reading them, I have a few new ideas:

1. I’ll continue to try to keep people’s hands out of his face, although as Peggy noted, that’s not always possible. Just yesterday I was in the middle of a transaction at a cash register when another clerk came up from the side and had her hand in his face before I knew what was going on. (That was the incident that prompted my post). Thanks to everyone who confirmed that invading Milo’s space (and mine) is not okay. I loved what you said about seeing little dogs as beings with agency, Little Cloud.

2. I definitely need to do some work desensitizing him. That part is on me. I’ll follow all your good advice. I think that from Milo’s perspective, the unwanted human behavior happens, he acts as if he’s going to intercept it with his mouth, and the unwanted behavior stops (people pull their hands away). His behavior has been practiced and reinforced. Working on this likely will be a long term project.

3. Training my husband and adult son is much more challenging than training Milo.🙄 They are very careful with him, but love having him play with their hands. And while I don’t love that they encourage mouthy behavior, they probably aren’t the sole cause of Milo’s response to strangers in his space. (I’m still deciding whether or not to admit this to them).


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## Tulsi (Jun 8, 2021)

Rusty dodges hands too. I wonder if he associates hands with being groomed which he loathes.

Sounds like you have lots of good ideas.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Good reminder that this is something I have been meaning to desensitize as well. Because yes, sometimes you can't predict humans and I know Annie HATES when an unexpected hand reaches for her head. I am careful when I have her in public, but humans are sneaky. 

I do find it helps when Annie's topknot is shorter. Less attractive to humans, less irritating for Annie to be pet there.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Thinking about this some more.... If Peggy were small enough to hold, and someone reached for her while my attention was on something else, I think she might actually interpret that as a threat. And I think that would be a fair interpretation.

I believe being carried can contribute to small-dog nippiness, as they’re constantly being placed “defensively” (in their eyes) between you and strangers.


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## LittleCloud (Apr 21, 2021)

Yes, unfortunately you can’t avoid it happening just learn to deal with it. I recently got a sleepypod air and I use it on public transport, people can’t see him and we’re finally left alone. 

I actually rough house with Nano, it’s different then with a bigger dog for sure, but we both love it. My rules are that the biting has to be very gentle and he has to stop when I say. He only starts this type of play with people he knows and is very comfortable with (they usually have dogs themself and know how to initiate this type of play with a dog) but I can always tell him to stop. So far it’s worked out well, but he’s a pretty chill temperament in general with good self-control and that definitely helps.



PeggyTheParti said:


> I believe being carried can contribute to small-dog nippiness, as they’re constantly being placed “defensively” (in their eyes) between you and strangers.


I also think there's a corneredness to it, they can't move away from the situation, all they have left to defend themselfes is a growl or bite. That's why I hate it so much.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

LittleCloud said:


> I also think there's a corneredness to it, they can't move away from the situation, all they have left to defend themselfes is a growl or bite. That's why I hate it so much.


100%


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Galen doesn't like people reaching for his head either, and he's much bigger. I think dogs feel head pats are an intimate gesture; a stranger touching them there is a bit like a stranger groping me on the breast or the butt. Even if I restrain myself from slapping the stranger in return, I'm still offended. 

I wonder if Little Cloud would feel comfortable riding in a sling on your chest. I think people are less likely to reach directly towards your chest. Additionally, you will be better able to see sneaky hands reaching towards him and lift an elbow to block them.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

I teach people to turn their hand palm up and scratch under the chin instead.


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## Tulsi (Jun 8, 2021)

Rusty always takes a few steps backwards when people go to pet him. Desensitising sounds like a good idea.


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## LittleCloud (Apr 21, 2021)

cowpony said:


> I wonder if Little Cloud would feel comfortable riding in a sling on your chest. I think people are less likely to reach directly towards your chest. Additionally, you will be better able to see sneaky hands reaching towards him and lift an elbow to block them.


This is our go to shoulder bag style carrier, his head is at my chest. I've had uninvited pets and it literally felt like I'd just been groped. It's usually so fast and unexpected, that I don't have time to elbow them off. But it's only happened a few times, we usually just get smiles and baby talk 

Plus I've been driving recently, so less buss rides.


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## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

What a great bag. I’m astonished someone would reach in to touch him—that’s incredibly intrusive for you and for Nano. 

Some people get weird around small dogs. It’s almost like they have a point they need to make about their own dominance. Nobody would walk up to a stranger’s GSD and wrap their arms around it, but somehow they think a small dog needs to put up with anything a human dishes out.


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## LittleCloud (Apr 21, 2021)

His head is usually sticking out, he rarely sleeps like this in it.

I just don’t think they see them as proper dogs and also aren’t afraid of their bites. Here in Hungary it’s also mainly the older generation and they do the same with small kids and babies. They just see a cute thing they want to touch and don’t really care or think it trough.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I find the most effective way to deter people is to stick my hand up in that universal blocking sign "stop". It works better than words - it will stop young children running toward a dog. I use my words to say stop nicely to people so they aren't put off by my hand. Of course you have to be watching and ready to react which doesn't always happen.

I don't think any dog should be petted if they don't want it. How would you feel if some stranger reached out with their hand near your nose and then wiped it across your head? I'm not sure where the idea of petting a dog on the head came from - most dogs prefer petting elsewhere on their body. Mine enjoy scratches behind their ears, under the chin and don't mind petting on their back. If someone I know wants to pet my dog I tell them where my dogs want to be touched. You may have situations like that with friends and family members where you have some control to make it positive situation for Milo. I don't let everyone who asks to pet me dogs pet them. Babykins is a trained TDI therapy dog and she enjoys petting so I'm more lenienate. But if Babykins is turning away or it's a badly behaving child I say no.



Little Milo said:


> My concern is that when someone reaches out to pet him before I can intercept them, he opens his mouth and tries to catch their hand with his teeth. It truly seems to me that he’s trying to intercept them, not to bite them. My worry is that one day somebody will interpret this as him being a dog who bites.


 Given your concern, I too would desensitize Milo to getting petted. I'm not advocating that everyone be allowed to pet him.... rather this is to help him accept those rude people who don't listen and go ahead to pet him. I would still ask people not to pet him.

My puppy Theo was hand shy. I'm training him for formal Obedience competitions where they have to sit or stand calmly while a judge (who is usually a stranger, male or female) comes in to pet them while I'm standing 6' or more away. I'm not suggesting anyone train their pet dog for this exercise - but some of the work I'm doing to prepare him can be used to desensitize Milo.

I've enlisted lots of friends to help me - people I could trust not to do something weird but to follow my directions. There's several stages and each is done slowly so it's always a positive experience. I have Theo sit - and while someone is getting close to pet - I start to feed treats - as the person backs away the treats stop. This is where having people who can follow directions is important. You don't want someone early on figuring they are close that they can pet the dog when you know your dog isn't ready for that step. Theo has associated good things with people coming close.

Eventually he got comfortable with someone getting close enough to pet, then we added petting on the back and finally petting on the head. Theo now wants to go up to strangers and get petted in exchange for treats. This is not what I was training and not what I want but shows the evolution of a behavior to such a point that he now is choosing to engage in this petting behavior that he once was fearful of. He's still a work in progress.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

I was thinking about this thread - dogs who like us 'allow' us to pet their heads. It's a sign of trust.
Think of it as a vote of confidence.


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## ivy1 (12 mo ago)

My five pounder never liked to be petted by strangers, and always looked to me for help. He was tiny. Strangers frightened him. (Everyone wanted to touch him). It was understandable. Only one time did he bite someone. Same as you, I always declined, when someone asked to pet him. There was what appeared to be an autistic boy, (maybe 6 or 7). I know this because there is one such child in my family. I was in a store. This child's mother was not watching him. He kept petting Buddy over and over for quite sometime. I kept asking him to stop, but he wouldn't. Eventually Bud snapped at him. It left a little red mark. No broken skin. Very awkward. But he stopped petting. He then walked off. Could have been a bad situation.


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## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

That sounds like a tough situation. I’m glad it didn’t go any worse.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I just tell people no
Beatrice was always polite about it, she would bow and dance around so people couldn't pet her, Pia and Leonard shy away.
Today at my brother's everyone knows to get on their level and a scratch under the chin.
People are huge and looming.
Yes I am mean and say no to strangers unless the dogs are interested, and there are people they are drawn to.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

If by rough housing you mean they "play" by allowing Milo to (defensively) gently bite their fingers/hands while they swiftly wag thier hands in his face, then I think you're not going to be able to change his (defensive) response to a strangers hand on the "incoming". My sister and BIL both wanted to do this with Elroy when I first brought him over thier house but I put a stop to it. My sister was pretty put off that I wouldn't allow him to learn this game. She got over it though. If they must play the rough housing game, change the rules so that they MUST have a chew toy in their hands (think tug) if they're going to allow him to bite/mouth back. Tooth contact only allowed with the chew toy during the game. When he goes for their hands, the game (the fun) stops. Like you said though, husband and boy are hard to train. Good luck!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Lots of dogs don’t like being petted on the head. And it’s okay, they have the right to. Beckie won’t let anyone pet her on the head. I try not to do it but sometimes I forget and she will make a slight movement sideways to avoid my hand. Then I realize it and stop.

I don’t know if you can stop your dog from grabbing people’s hand with his mouth, but if it’s just grabbing, I wouldn’t do anything about it. Petting a strange dog on the head is rude and it’s time people start learning manners. I’m wondering though why your dog isn’t backing away as Beckie does ? She’ll just take a step back so she never gets petted on the head. Or anywhere.

Does it happen while he is cornered in your arms ? Or on a sofa or a chair ? If so, then it’s your responsibility to educate people. And teach them to pet under the chin and on the neck. Not the head.

(Sorry I haven’t read all the answers).


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## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

Dechi said:


> Lots of dogs don’t like being petted on the head. And it’s okay, they have the right to. Beckie won’t let anyone pet her on the head. I try not to do it but sometimes I forget and she will make a slight movement sideways to avoid my hand. Then I realize it and stop.
> 
> I don’t know if you can stop your dog from grabbing people’s hand with his mouth, but if it’s just grabbing, I wouldn’t do anything about it. Petting a strange dog on the head is rude and it’s time people start learning manners. I’m wondering though why your dog isn’t backing away as Beckie does ? She’ll just take a step back so she never gets petted on the head. Or anywhere.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your comments. I agree completely. It happens when I’m holding him. Most recently, I was holding him while paying at the hardware store. There were racks of candy at his level by the cash register, and I didn’t want him sampling while I was distracted, so I picked him up.


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## The Popster (Feb 23, 2021)

Poppy rarely lets a stranger pet her.
Usually a couple of steps back and moves her head like avoiding a punch.
Which is why it's always interesting when she does allow a stranger to pet her - obviously picks up extra good vibes - and no she hasn't realised they have treats, as even giving a treat won't give the right to pet.
However she is really good with kids, quite often allowing them to touch 'waffle dog'.


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## PowersPup (Aug 28, 2020)

Nobody has the right to pet your dog without your permission. My training school emphasizes this in puppy kindergarten and helps people learn to advocate for their dog in some of the early levels of training. Owners also learn how to tell people how to pet the dog, and how to say "no." It's priceless training. Topper is as friendly as a dog can be, and wants to see if people have anything in their hand as the hand gets close to him. So I often give people who want to pet him a small treat to give him, then they can pet him on his chin or chest.


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