# How to Train your new puppy.



## lily cd re

This is a great idea Eric. First I would link to the Ian Dunbar thread. http://www.poodleforum.com/23-general-training-obedience/100970-ian-dunbar-seminar-workshop.html

I also recommend the Ian Dunbar books What To Do Before/After You Get Your Puppy that can be downloaded for free at dogstardaily.com

Prospective puppy owners should have a crate and other essentials before they bring their puppy home. If they are going to hire a trainer to help them they should interview potential trainers before they need them. Even if hiring a private trainer to help in the home all puppies should, in the context of advice from their vet and breeder, attend puppy class for socialization.

There is lots more I can think of, but this is a start.


----------



## glorybeecosta

When getting a new dog, puppy or adult, get all the necessities in advance, crates, gates, potty pads (if trained for such). House break or train potty time that works for your house hold. Then sit, stay, leave, drop, no and good dog, down. There is nothing worse than a owner who cannot control their dogs, so everyone can enjoy them, then if you want train tricks, dance, roll over, etc. I have never been one for tricks just good manners so I can take them everywhere dogs are allowed. Mine go to the hair dressers, nail saloon, outside restaurants, shopping, visiting friends and family. They are like children to me.

The photo is the new red one trying to be friends with the one I had, took 3 weeks, now they adore each other.


----------



## ericwd9

*Early Days of Puppy Training*

How to Train Your New Puppy.
I will confine this thread to puppies to live in the home with a family.
I will add to it as needed.

Coming Home.
You have decided on a poodle as your preferred breed. You have noted that there are three recognized sizes of poodle. The three sizes do behave differently to a small extent but that should be left for another thread. 
Be Prepared. Have all the things you will need, of the right size to suit your new puppy, ready, before it arrives. Make decisions about how your new family member is to live and interact with you. Will he have his own sleeping place or will he sleep with you? Where will he eat? Will he have his own door to a safe area to pee and poo, or will you take him out. Will he be allowed on furniture and laps? Have in mind the size he will be when grown. A 60lb dog is not a lap dog. Start off as you intend to finish. There is no sense in allowing the puppy on your lap or your bed and then banning the grown dog.

House Training.
Are you going to be home all the time during the early months? If so you may not need to “crate train” because you can follow the puppy around all day and barricade or lock off areas of the home where the puppy is not to go. You can train the puppy to behave as you wish by rewarding good behavior and showing disapproval of bad behavior. Pain should not be used for admonishment. Every time he (I will assume male all through) picks up or mouths anything he is not to, admonish him and move him away from the object. This applies to anything he does that is not approved of. Have him know the difference between your “stuff” and his “stuff”. Any time you give him something that is his, including food, give it with ceremony saying something like “Fido’s food” or “Fido’s ball”. When he picks up something of yours, take it from him and say something like, “Mummies food” or “mummies sock” and hold the object to yourself showing your ownership. Puppies need a lot of sleep. If you exercise him well, he will sleep a lot and give you respite. A dog trained in this way can later be left home alone with the run of the home without danger to the home or himself. “Pottie” training will be covered elsewhere and is mentioned in many threads you can search.

If you are to be away from home for periods your puppy will need a safe, comfortable place to stay alone while you are away. Ideally the puppy might have a whole room, made safe, for himself with a bed, a water/feeding station, toys, a “pottie” area and even safe TV!. Few of us can do this. The most popular alternative is the “crate”. If you are not home the crate will make it possible to “pottie” train and keep your dog safe while you are away. No puppy should be left alone for more than about 4 hours and that is, in my opinion, too long. A dog that has been crate trained will need to be crated whenever you leave home unless also house trained. Crate training will be covered elsewhere and is mentioned in many threads you can search.

Basic Obedience.

A day one new puppy will come to you when you call most-times. On day one, if he is awake LOL, stand a few yards apart from another family member. Both of you should have treats. Clap your hands and call the dog. When he comes to you treat him and call him a “good boy” in a high pitched crooning voice. Then have the other person do the same. This is a good game, gives exercise and trains recall. When learned have him sit each time for his treat. Push his butt down saying “sit” in a normal voice. As soon as he does, treat him and say “good boy”. Same game two commands learned. Once learned when feeding have him sit and “stay back” or “back” before allowing him to eat. When you allow him to eat say “Fido eat”. Never feed the puppy before you have eaten yourself. Give him a “little” of your food if it is safe for him to eat. This is so that he knows you are more important than him and when you have all eaten, you give him food. Always feed him at his feeding station. Never at the table or in front of the TV. Make sure ALL members of the family do the same. Dogs like consistency and they train more quickly with it. More advanced training will be covered elsewhere and is mentioned in many threads you can search.


----------



## Tiny Poodles

Gee, I don't have a lot of rules, I just usually know what to do because I really like dogs and pay close attention to them, but I will add a few tips just for TOY poodles.

1) Never step around them - purposely shuffle your feet right into them - they must learn to always be on the look-out for human feet to avoid being stepped on.

2) if you are ever going to allow your dog into the kitchen, keep an empty plastic cup on the counter and when you are busy working, occasionally drop the plastic cup, which will make a loud clatter when it falls, teaching your puppy to give you a wide berth and stay out of the way of falling utensils and hot pots!

3) if you allow your toy on the furniture, practice "almost" sitting on your dog, giving them just enough time to jump away - they need learn to beware human butts as much as human feet - small dogs have been killed by both!

4) Toy Poodles are crazy high jumpers, and and it is not uncommon for them to break their legs as puppies - you can try to teach them not to, but that is easier said than done, so it would be wise to have carpeted doggie stairs next to the sofa and the bed.

5) Many Toy Poodle people feel that because they are prone to having weak tracheas, that they should use a harness instead of a collar, but a standard harness actually teaches your dog to pull, and a harness is not fool-proof - a pulling, jumping, out of control dog on a harness could easily escape it! It also is not friendly to the poodle coat and can cause matting under the arms. 
Better to teach your dog to walk on a loose lead with a collar, using a training harness or head halter if need be. Most collars sized for small toys are also very narrow, but I prefer a wider, 3/4 - 1" collar so that I can give my dog light directions of which way to walk without having the thing cut into the center of the neck (we live in the city, and I often have to move her from side to side, in front and behind me to avoid pedestrians and obstacles).

6) Brush their teeth every day! Because of their small mouths, the food really collects on their teeth, and you will live to regret it if you don't!

7) Find a Vet who believes in giving half of a dose of vaccine to the little ones, and titers instead of re- vaccinating. The little ones are especially prone to vaccine reactions, auto-immune diseases and allergies, and you must find a Vet who is up to date on the research, and is agreeable to avoiding over-vaccination and the problems that may arise from it. 

8) TRAIN and HOUSEBREAK your dog! 
Being small is no reason for being lax in these areas - Toy dogs have a reputation for being jumpy, yappy, out of control, and poorly housebroken not because it is inherent in their nature, but simply because puppies are, and as Toys may retain their cute little puppy appearance for their entire lives, many never train them for proper adult behavior - it isn't OK for a Great Dane to pee in the corner of the living room, jump on your guests, or pull you down the street, and you should be just as firm in not allowing your Toy Poodle to do so - trust me, being strict and diligent with your puppy for the first few months, will buy you both a lifetime of freedom and happiness!


----------



## ericwd9

Super Post Tiny Poodles!!!


----------



## ericwd9

*Crate Training Links.*

Here are some links to good posts here on Crate training.

http://www.poodleforum.com/23-general-training-obedience/132977-help-crate-training-tips-needed.html

RSPCA Victoria - Crate training your dog

https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/weekend-crate-training

Crate Training : The Humane Society of the United States

Eric:adore:


----------



## ericwd9

*"Potty" Training Links.*

Here are some links to "potty" training posts:

http://www.dogchatforum.com/toilet-training-puppy.htm

How can I toilet train my puppy/dog? - RSPCA Australia knowledgebase

How to Housetrain Your Dog or Puppy : The Humane Society of the United States

https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/house-training-your-puppy

Here for "potty" training in a crate.

Crate training and housebreaking made easy

Eric


----------



## fjm

I love the approach to puppy raising shown in this series of videos - a really good way to build a solid basis for future training and a thoroughly happy relationship: Life Lessons For My Puppy - eileenanddogseileenanddogs (And the dose of happy puppy oxytocin is good for all of us, too!)

I think the thing we tend to forget - especially with a first puppy - is that they are learning every single moment they are awake, and that we are therefore "training" all that time too. Leaving a puppy alone for hours is going to teach it to find ways of entertaining itself, and puppies love to chew; only reacting and giving attention when it does something we disapprove of will teach it that naughtiness is the best way of getting our much wanted attention; inconsistency, yelling, punishing will teach it that we are not to be trusted. Remember your puppy is a baby, and any teaching at this stage should be kindergarten stuff - lots of lessons through play, lots of reinforcement of basic good manners, all in a safe environment. And don't fall into the trap of believing that because your pup sat three times in a row on the carpet in your sitting room he now "knows" Sit, and is just being stubborn if he doesn't do it when surrounded by other pups and exciting smells in the completely new environment of your local pupy class...!


----------



## patk

good idea, eric. i would say one thing to think about before embarking on the journey is what one's expectations are of oneself. will you have the time and patience to offer the proper care - and be willing to dispense generous portions of both. we think of poodles as companion animals - but do we think of ourselves as also owing a duty of companionship to the poodle(s) we bring into our lives?


----------



## charis78

I'm new to all this so I appreciate this thread, I wanted to add there's an app called pup school that has all the sounds you want to socialize your puppy too. You start on low volume and increase as u go.


----------



## onceagain

Thanks for the tips, I'm a new puppy owner (standard) and am really enjoying all the insight for sure.


----------



## Lora

ooookay, get ready. I was basically made for this thread 

I recommend:

Reaching the Animal Mind by Karen Pryor
This book is not a step-by-step guide on dog training. It's about animal behaviour, cognition and learning on a grander scale- you'll hear about dogs, dolphins, horses, fish, etc. But it isn't a long read, and it's easy to read, lots and lots enlightening training examples, so it's also practical.
If I was President.... I'd make reading this book and passing an exam about its contents a mandatory requirement if you want to keep any pet.


Emily Larlham's absolutely excellent free comprehensive youtube videos. She covers everything from the basics to advanced training. Here's her youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/kikopup

Zak George's free youtube videos. Once you get over the messages from his sponsor, this is a great series of videos on basics and solving everyday problems. Here's his youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/zakgeorge21

Both have lots of puppy guides.

Between the two, Emily is more technical and has an emphasis on calmness, since she has had to deal with severe anxiety in her rescue dogs, and Zak is more .. alive and energetic, and his language is more accessible. But both approaches are positive and effective.

------

There's also Susan Garrett, who teaches rather expensive interactive online courses. I believe it's gone under the name "recallers" and now "Handling 360" which is mainly about agility. If you're just rolling around in cash, you happen to catch the times when they're accepting new students in the course, and you want to do advanced stuff (obedience, agility) then go for it and tell us about it 
Garrett is a self-promotion wizard. She offers her course participants a free pass if they produce a winning video about their experience on the course, here's the result:
Handling360 Video Contest….Season Finale! | Susan Garrett's Dog Training Blog
Recallers 3.0 Video Contest - Winners Announced!!! | Susan Garrett's Dog Training Blog

-----


I want to reply to this one thing though:



Tiny Poodles said:


> 5) Many Toy Poodle people feel that because they are prone to having weak tracheas, that they should use a harness instead of a collar, but a standard harness actually teaches your dog to pull, and a harness is not fool-proof - a pulling, jumping, out of control dog on a harness could easily escape it! It also is not friendly to the poodle coat and can cause matting under the arms.
> Better to teach your dog to walk on a loose lead with a collar, using a training harness or head halter if need be.


First, let me say that I agree with everything else you said in that post. It was well put, and important. Especially the last part about people often just ignoring the problem behaviours of small dogs because they're small'n'cute, and you can barely feel it when they pull on the lead. But there's no reason a small dog can't be as well behaved as a big one- in fact, that's how it should be.

I also agree that it's viable to use a collar instead of a harness and simply train them not to pull. Buttttt.. I don't agree that harnesses _teach_ dogs to pull. It might make it easier for them, yeah, but regardless, you can have a small dog on a harness and train them not to pull just fine. Moreover, if a dog is gonna pull, it's a lot better for them to be pulling on a harness than on a collar.

I wouldn't know about poodle fur matting though... I imagine a harness is also warmer which isn't great in summer, and anyway, the important thing is that your dog isn't pulling, _regardless_ of if he's on a harness or collar.


____________________________ ranting about pulling:

and on pulling in general: I see this so often. I see small dogs constantly leaning their whole bodies into it (on a collar!) and their owners don't even notice because the dog is just so small.

and I see people walking big dogs and jerking them on the lead constantly.

This is just annoying for both handler and dog, and it can be damaging for the dog.. and for your wrist. And, with consistency you can stop pulling entirely.

How to stop all pulling:

When your dog pulls, simply stop. Call him back to you, and when his attention is on you, move forward again. If he's too excited, you're asking too much- practise in a situation with less distractions.

Or, even better, if you can predict when he's about to pull, prophylactically take the slack out of the lead and call him back to you, before he even gets a chance to pull.

Do this every. single. time. and practise at home. Like at feeding time, have someone put down the bowl, and walk towards it with your dog on the lead. If he pulls- you stop and call him back.

You get the idea.. the "not pulling" behavior is a magic thing that will make the human go forward. Pulling makes you go backwards. It's that easy. At first you'll be going in circles constantly, but very soon your dog will tire of that, you just have to hold out and make no exceptions ever.

A story:

So one day I was accompanying a friend and her dog to the dog park. I was holding the lead. My friend had been consistent with her about not pulling, and she didn't pull a single time- until we got close to the park and she saw her doggy friends. My friend said "it's ok, just clip her lead off".. why? well, we're already in the area where she's allowed to run free, and my friend wants her dog to play and burn off energy with the other dogs. But remember, the dog doesn't know that, she just thinks pulling = I get let off to play!
Stop right there, that's an exception in the "pulling makes you go away from the thing you want" rule. That's exactly how we *teach* dogs to pull. Don't spend hours showing your dog that pulling doesn't work, and then undo all that by rewarding pulling! This dog would definitely remember that when she pulled towards her dog playmates, we let her off the lead entirely! WOW! that's a HUGE reward, much better than any food treat. She's gonna remember the behavior that got her that reward for a long time! So of course, I called her back to me and set her free when she showed she could come back and pay attention to me. Because THAT is the magic behavior that gets you the big rewards.
I have nothing against food treats, but for everyday behaviors, the goal is to transition to using the environment itself as the reward. Our dogs don't know that we'll take them for walkies anyway- we might as well let them think that it's the not-pulling behavior that is causing all this awesome stuff to happen.

I mention this story because this is a mistake lots of people make without even realising- they follow the rules 99% of the time, and then they undo all that work in one fell swoop. Our human logic fails us because we think "oh I'm gonna let her off the lead anyway, here you go puppy!" but we forget that the dog didn't know that. Let your dog think that whenever you're approaching something wonderful, the KEY to getting there is to not pull.


Fin


----------



## Naira

I've always loved the quote "The more restriction your dog endures as a puppy, the more freedom she will enjoy as an adult."


----------



## fjm

Naira said:


> I've always loved the quote "The more restriction your dog endures as a puppy, the more freedom she will enjoy as an adult."


I rather disagree with this. Yes, a puppy needs to learn basic good manners and self control and to be house trained while young in order to be included in family activities, but I don't think that equates to "enduring restriction", which sounds rather like imprisonment for imprisonment's sake! If that was all it took then crating a young puppy when you leave for work at 8am until you eventually return at 6pm would be the way to a perfect dog, instead of a recipe for disaster...

I prefer "The more happy experiences with people, dogs, and other stuff your dog has as a puppy, and the more thought and effort you put into educating her kindly and effectively, the more freedom you will both have when she is an adult"!


----------



## Lora

yeah ok, I see what you mean, the quote could be misinterpreted.. though I think spirit of it is that you shouldn't let your puppy get away with everything just because it's young. As in, puppy isn't allowed to jump up because it's cute now but will be annoying later, puppy isn't allowed to pull on lead because it's easy to hold now but will be a problem later, etc. Pure restriction, as in _literal_ confinement, would of course be a bad idea and lead to a pretty ill-adjusted adult dog.


----------



## Naira

That is how I view the quote Laura.  As in slowly having the puppy earn freedoms/privileges. I think it's very applicable to crate training. A puppy should have to earn the freedom of having free run of the house. I see a lot of problems arise from giving privileges before they are earned. I also see how FJM's statement plays in. 

While my puppies are puppies I make sure I am around to guide and mold their experiences with new people, new dogs, new smells, new sights etc. When I can't guide these experiences, they are crated. That to me is a restriction. Their access/privileges are restricted as puppies so I can guide them, in order for them to enjoy freedom as adults because I've been there to make those experiences positive and we've built trust.


----------



## lily cd re

*Ways to deal with mouthiness*

Ok so puppies are land sharks equipped with needle teeth. First we all need to understand that the deciduous teeth are as sharp as they are to help puppies l*earn bite inhibition from each other. *In the natural order of things, puppies playing with each other will bite each other. Any time a pup gets bitten and doesn't like how it feels the message 'if I don't want to be on the receiving end of that I shouldn't be dishing it out' gets reinforced. It potentially becomes very hard for puppies to learn this lesson if they don't have litter mates that help them learn or if they are removed from their litter mates too soon to have effectively learned it. An older dog that has no bite inhibition is highly unlikely to learn it from people.

What should you do when your puppy is landing those shark teeth on you? There is no single correct answer, but rather a number of strategies to be tried.

1. Redirect the puppy's mouthy activities to an appropriate chew toy. A kong or similar toy filled with a portion of the pup's kibble in a way that a bit of work is required to get the kibble is one strategy.

2. If the pup has gotten overexcited and is therefore being mouthy help the pup calm down with a bit of a time out. Generally if you just stop moving and tuck your hands into your pockets or fold your arms in front of you and break your eye contact the pup will settle down. Take a calming breath while you are doing this. It will help you be relaxed too. Since your calmness sends calming signals to your pup it will be good for both of you.

3. Many advocate giving the pup a signal that the biting hurts by saying ouch or giving a yipe. This can work, but can backfire if the pup gets excited by your "yelp."

4. I think the most important thing for a mouthy pup is for it to play with other pups. My dogs were puppies together. In addition to the fact that both of them had siblings (Lily is from a litter of eight, Peeves from a litter of four, but there were five other pups close in age from a different dam as well) they learned the finishing touches of their bite inhibition from each other more than from us. Since most people won't have two (or more, are you crazy) puppies in their home at the same time unless they are a breeder then you need to take your puppy to a socialization class that is exclusively for young puppies. If possible find a Sirius Puppy class (http://dogstardaily.com). Take your vet and breeder's advice about being in contact with other puppies in the context of immunizations, but also be aware that there is good science that shows the risk of acquiring parvovirus at a puppy class is very low (also see Dog Star Daily for info) and will be especially low if the class follows Dr. Dunbar's recommendations about hygiene.


----------



## Carolinek

My experience with raising little puppies is limited to one of my personal dogs and some foster puppies that stayed at my house. So I don't have a ton of "hands on" experience with tiny puppies, and I always defer to my good friend who has bred Cairns for 25+ years. She has incredibly good advice and says the biggest mistake new puppy owners make is giving them way too much freedom. 

Her insight was invaluable to me, as I was responsible for doing a lot of adoption contracts with people adopting rescue puppies, and I knew the education I sent them with was going to play into the puppy's successful adjustment, and could effect if it was a permanent placement. I usually spent about an hour with new puppy owners. I often called my friend for advice with rescue pups, rather than the rescue people, because you just can't replace the experience a good breeder has after decades of raising puppies. Plus, we've known each other for almost 30 years, and she has no problem telling me exactly what she thinks-LOL. Good breeding practices and rescue can very much complement each other, but that's a topic for another thread! 

IMO, I think everyone's points are well taken here. You can't deprive the puppy of good experiences, and the temptation to let the cute little thing romp freely around the house is very understandable. But then there's a puddle here, a pile there, and the new owner is down a slippery slope. I think it's a balance between confining them enough to give them the rest they need and help establish housebreaking combined with good socialization experiences that create a well adjusted pup. 

Oh yes- and selfishly, I like to protect my possessions:act-up: I had a 4 month old foster pup chomp on my 400 dollar glasses that I left in a bad place! A hundred dollars for every month she was on the Earth. Fortunately, she didn't get hurt- but the glasses were ruined. I like my table legs intact, am not a real fan of crotchless underwear, and can't afford new glasses every few weeks. If that means a little more time in the crate, so be it. We do have to co- exist! 

I really have no idea about collars vs harnesses. I use a collar on Max (who is almost a perfect dog) and an Easy Walk on Lily and Misty (who are more lively!). That combination lets me walk three dogs at a time. I also use the Puppia harnesses for outings that aren't walks, but I will confess that it's partly because those harnesses are so darned cute. I fostered a dog with a collapsing trachea, it's not a nice thing but my understanding is that it is largely congenital. Although I'm sure injury could cause it, or exacerbate it.

That's my 2 cents- for what it's worth, apologize for rambling a bit. Not a ton of hands on experience to back it up, just an interest in helping people train puppies right. I'm not really much of a puppy person, and would rather have an eight year old dog than an eight week old puppy anyday. But I think I have one more puppy in me, and it WILL be a well bred poodle. I've rescued a lot of great dogs, but I now want a dog that isn't a project. And The puppy raising is the trade off for that. When that happens, I will probably be on PF every day crying for help and support!


----------



## lily cd re

I liken unlimited puppy freedom and lack of rules to keep order and safety to hands off parenting where the kids end up having no boundaries and are unpleasant to be out in public with. I see many of my students these days who are from very permissive and helicoptering households where parents act more like friends than parents. Generally the students are pretty happy to have clear expectations set for them and to have an orderly learning environment.


----------



## Carolinek

Lily cd- that's an excellent analogy. A structure( not overly rigid rules) is comforting for both humans and canines. Students tell me in private that they like my classes because I don't tolerate the disruptive chatter and have expectations for civil behavior. But I taught high school English for 7 years in my 20's before changing careers, and that certainly has influenced my perspective. My poor kids never got sympathy from me for the bad teacher who was the reason for all their problems- my answer was always something along the line of "What did you do to create this situation?"

Don't even get me started with helicopter parenting- it's so out of control. But there is hope- at a recent conference, a speaker who works with classroom management said he is actually seeing a return to 1950s attitudes from parents in the primary school. So maybe there's hope:act-up: As long as the use of corporal punishment doesn't come back with it. 

But here I go hijacking the thread again! Back to topic- I think you can still spoil your puppies AND provide a structure that teaches them how to be a good dog. But just like raising good kids, it ain't always easy!


----------



## lily cd re

*Helping puppies generalize*

How many times have you found yourself, or overhead someone else, saying "but (s)he never does that at home!"? The problem is rooted in the difficulty dogs having with generalizing. When a child learn the meaning of sit, the child will sit on a chair, a sofa, the floor, the ground and the like without wondering what they are being told. When a puppy learns to sit on the carpet in the living room, it will wonder what you are asking when you want the pup to sit on the rubber matting at obedience class, so use as many kinds of surfaces, places and other kinds of varied scenarios as you can.

If you identify with this scenario then you need to work on helping your pup to generalize what they know. Early in a pup's life this mean teaching the basics (sit, down, stay, come, etc.) in the kitchen, the living room, the dining room, your home office... and having you, your spouse, your children, your parents, etc. all work on teaching and reinforcing these behaviors in many different places. Additionally you should teach the puppy to follow the orders no matter what you are doing. The pup should sit near and far from you, while you are standing, sitting, still, moving... Use your imagination.


----------



## Lora

lily cd re said:


> How many times have you found yourself, or overhead someone else, saying "but (s)he never does that at home!"? The problem is rooted in the difficulty dogs having with generalizing


OH my god yes, YES! This is so important. And worse yet, people assume that when a dog didn't generalize something, the dog is being wilfully disobedient.

Just because a dog does "sit" indoors and with you standing in front of him and pointing at the floor, doesn't mean he'll know what to do when the owner is further away, or they're in a different setting entirely.

I think a simple rule of thumb is:
If your dog isn't doing a behaviour that you think he ought to know, either he isn't generalizing it, or he isn't motivated to do it. Either way, it's not the dogs fault, it's up to you to teach him what is expected, and motivate him to do it gladly and without fear.


----------



## ericwd9

Depends a lot on the individual dog. Some when taught to not chew a remote control will not chew any remote. Some will chew any remote but the one they have been taught not to. Some when told not to chew a facial tissue will not chew that one again but all others are OK to chew. Grace has been very good there one remote was all remotes, one tissue was all and one book was all. I had a GSD that needed to be corrected for every book on the shelf. Once corrected he was bomb proof but he differentiated every single book.
Eric.


----------



## Lora

ericwd9 said:


> Depends a lot on the individual dog. Some when taught to not chew a remote control will not chew any remote. Some will chew any remote but the one they have been taught not to. Some when told not to chew a facial tissue will not chew that one again but all others are OK to chew. Grace has been very good there one remote was all remotes, one tissue was all and one book was all. I had a GSD that needed to be corrected for every book on the shelf. Once corrected he was bomb proof but he differentiated every single book.
> Eric.


haha that's sorta cute actually. Like, maybe you want me to chew To Kill A Mockingbird, but not Harry Potter. Who knows?

And then there's the false correction. Like, you scold your dog for peeing indoors, later take him outside and he holds in his pee and you're like "you little bastard!" ---- But the dog doesn't know it's the *indoors* part that is bad but peeing *outdoors* is okay. He might just think it's bad to pee _near_ you. Sure as heck not gonna do it again- no, he's gonna be "good" and pee when you're away, because you either don't scold him for that, or he doesn't connect the scolding for that to the peeing because of the time delay.

He's pretty much doing what you'd expect- avoiding the behaviour that caused the scolding. Just not in the way you intended. Again, our human assumptions can prevent us from seeing it from the dog's perspective, and then we don't know why something isn't working.


----------



## ericwd9

I should add: another trainer I hold in good repute and myself have had an ongoing discussion for 10 years on this topic. We can't work out if the smarter dog is the one who knows all books are not to be chewed, or is it the smarter dog who knows which titles to chew, LOL
Eric.


----------



## Tiny Poodles

Lora said:


> haha that's sorta cute actually. Like, maybe you want me to chew To Kill A Mockingbird, but not Harry Potter. Who knows?
> 
> 
> 
> And then there's the false correction. Like, you scold your dog for peeing indoors, later take him outside and he holds in his pee and you're like "you little bastard!" ---- But the dog doesn't know it's the *indoors* part that is bad but peeing *outdoors* is okay. He might just think it's bad to pee _near_ you. Sure as heck not gonna do it again- no, he's gonna be "good" and pee when you're away, because you either don't scold him for that, or he doesn't connect the scolding for that to the peeing because of the time delay.
> 
> 
> 
> He's pretty much doing what you'd expect- avoiding the behaviour that caused the scolding. Just not in the way you intended. Again, our human assumptions can prevent us from seeing it from the dog's perspective, and then we don't know why something isn't working.



I have never had that problem because my pups have had significant positive reinforcement for peeing the correct place before I would ever tell them where not to go. I don't know about other breeds, but poodles easily understand that.


----------



## Tiny Poodles

ericwd9 said:


> I should add: another trainer I hold in good repute and myself have had an ongoing discussion for 10 years on this topic. We can't work out if the smarter dog is the one who knows all books are not to be chewed, or is it the smarter dog who knows which titles to chew, LOL
> Eric.



Could it be that the book that the book you stopped him from chewing had his scent on it, but the others did not?


----------



## Lora

Tiny Poodles said:


> I have never had that problem because my pups have had significant positive reinforcement for peeing the correct place before I would ever tell them where not to go. I don't know about other breeds, but poodles easily understand that.


Yes, exactly. I'd say any dog would learn it exactly the way you described, by giving positive reinforcement for the correct behaviour first, and not infusing that whole learning process with fear.

Sadly I think that's a common house training problem though- people scold the dog for doing it's business indoors, and then the dog thinks "ok, peeing near you causes bad things to happen, so I'll hold it in till you're away" and the owner interprets that as wilful disobedience, and _evidence_ that the dog knows peeing indoors is bad, and is trying to _hide_ his sins, rather than evidence that the dog has simply not understood what the correct behaviour would be.


----------



## glorybeecosta

My dogs have always been easy to train, for the first 6 weeks I am right on to of them, every minute or they are crated. I only care about potty training, sit say, down, drop it and no. If I tell them to do something and they do not do it, I will say, "What did I just tell you". What ever the previous command was they will do immediately, however I do use a different tone to my voice when I have to tell them the second time. I have eye contact with them at the same time.


----------



## ericwd9

I too like the method of keeping it simple in the beginning, being there and on their case. "pottie", recall and sit/down/stay with maybe "NO bite" LOL
Time for exotic commands later.
Eric.



glorybeecosta said:


> My dogs have always been easy to train, for the first 6 weeks I am right on to of them, every minute or they are crated. I only care about potty training, sit say, down, drop it and no. If I tell them to do something and they do not do it, I will say, "What did I just tell you". What ever the previous command was they will do immediately, however I do use a different tone to my voice when I have to tell them the second time. I have eye contact with them at the same time.


----------



## Manxcat

:bump:

:biggrin:


----------



## Erica

Funny thing about harnesses, our GSD never *stopped* pulling until we put a harness on her.  I find harnesses much more comforting to me than collars, even with large dogs. If the dog slips into the river you're walking next to, it's much better to pull them out by a harness than a collar...if they are walking near a copperhead, much less damaging to pull them away with a harness than a collar (no time for me to remember the cue, say the cue, the dog hear the cue and respond to it). So many situations come up where I'm glad I've got my dog on a harness instead of a collar. You can train a dog to walk nicely in a harness just as easily as in a collar.

Heck...








Here's our GSD, Opal, pulling in her Canicross harness.









And here she is, same harness, same walk, walking on a spectacularly loose leash because I cued it. The equipment is less important than the training for loose-leash, but as I said earlier, I will always, always favor harnesses to keep the neck safe. (Delta doesn't walk on a loose leash yet, but that's because I don't care much about loose-leash walking...I could train him to walk loose leash if I wanted to, but I don't, and honestly there's nothing wrong with that! He knows how hard he's allowed to pull, which isn't very hard at all, but within those limits anything goes.)

I agree with a lot of the tips here! Dunbar's books are great (and free!), and could be such a help to so many people...

I dogsat for a young goldendoodle /) who was exactly the dog Dunbar described as the end product of no training...she had no manners in the house, so was exiled to the backyard. Because she rarely interacted with people, her manners worsened. Because her manners worsened, nobody wanted to interact with her...while I took care of her, I did a lot of work to get her more house-friendly and people-friendly, and I wrote down the simplest exercises the family could do to keep her manners. When they came back, they thought she was a different dog, in the best way possible. They kept up with the training for a few months, and she stayed great for those few months, but after that they let it slip and now she's back to the backyard most of the time, barking in frustration, loneliness, and boredom, with threats from neighbors to file a noise complaint. When they asked for a refresher course I directed the owners to another trainer because they might listen better if they paid more for the advice...here's hoping they do the work and keep her. If they had read Dunbar's book and followed the super-easy advice in it, they'd have a lovely adult dog who is a joy to be around. That's the dog I found underneath the frantic boredom. But they didn't, and the dog is paying the price.


----------



## Manxcat

That's a sad story Erica, poor doodle.

I like harnesses. Pippin has had one from a puppy, but when we got Pushkin at 3yrs he was used to being on a flexi, which I really don't like unless locked off. So he was so used to pulling on his collar to extend the flexi in order to get where he wanted to go that he practically choked himself on a fixed length lead.

We got him into a harness - overnight the pulling stopped! He walks beautifully on a loose lead now, but even after a year if he gets the lead clipped to his collar (quick wee walk or something) he will still pull.

I guess I could have worked more with him but I prefer harnesses - they make me feel more confident and more in control so him having one too was a win/win situation for us.


----------



## Naira

I would say, never stop reinforcing a behavior. It's easy to say, "My dog is doing so well with potty training!" and start being sloppy and waiting too long to take them out, not praising/reinforcing etc. I actually started to do this myself since Naira has been without an accident for the 6 weeks I've gotten her.

But in the past, whenever I have gotten complacent has been when my dogs regressed. So work really, really hard to try to prevent potty mistakes from occurring in the beginning. Give your dog a strong preference to eliminating outside. Make it exciting and make it part of their habit. Be really observant of their behavior when they have to go potty. Naira has a lazy puppy sit (I think you can see it in my avatar), but when she has to eliminate her sits all of a sudden become perfectly straight because she's holding it. And she will walk a bit, and then sit again a couple of times. Sure enough, a couple seconds later she will jump up and tap the door letting me know she wants to go out. 

I know some dog's signals aren't as obvious as others, and in that case I would leash them to you so you can quickly pick up the puppy and take them out. Oh and don't get too hard on yourself or compare your puppy to others or compare yourself to others. I've had good luck with potty training this go round, but my first dog (tpoo)--with the same techniques--took almost a year to be fully potty trained. 

*Every dog is different!* Be consistent...dogs are creatures of habit.


----------



## Manxcat

So true - we reinforce most commands regularly, including potty training. When they go out into the garden we still say "good girl/boy, wee-wee" just to remind them! Then when I need them to go prior to being left they have the command fixed.


----------



## lily cd re

It is way too easy to forget to say good dog for everyday good behavior, but I think that is very important. I always try to keep in mind that my dogs should hear good dog way more often than knock it off. Constantly reminding them of what you want leaves less room for them to do what you don't want.


----------



## Tiny Poodles

Yes, and I think that some people give up the treats too quickly, maybe thinking "I shouldn't have to bribe my dog for good behavior"? They give them treats for no reason, but when the dog behaves the way that they want, they feel that should be taken for granted....But I look at it like why not give them a treat and remind them how great "good girl" is! It doesn't have to be that often, because studies have shown that intermittent reinforcement is more powerful than continuous anyhow, but there is no reason to ever give up treating for good behavior completely -quite the opposite in fact!


----------



## ericwd9

*Puppy, land shark, Nipping and biting*

This is copied from a post by PBG. She has experience and is a good researcher. I recommend this post:

if you're interested in some training techniques based on science of behavior, tried and true, proven methods that veterinary behaviorists with advanced degrees in behavior will promote, then here is some good, sound training advice. Here's a video that addresses your situation. Have you tried any clicker training? 

kiko pup on puppy nipping - Bing Videos


Pat Miller is excellent also. I highly recommend reading this very good article. It is far superior to teach bite inhibition so the puppy learns to regulate the pressure of his bite. Punishment...or simply suppressing all biting or mouthing skips over this very vital lesson that littermates and the mom start but we need to continue. Pat Miller is one of my favorites and highly esteemed. 

Teaching Bite Inhibition - Whole Dog Journal Article


Another technique that does not involve the use of intimidation. 

Teaching Bite Inhibition | Dog Star Daily


I pretty much have done what Pat Miller describes with all my puppies for the past 55 years or so. That is what I've always used for my clients' puppies...same idea. These Poodle puppies, my most recent got the picture in about 2 weeks after getting them at 8 weeks of age. They really caught on fast. Plus there are two of them, which also helps. But as far as with humans...got it lickety split. Read her article. Be consistent. 

Eric.:angel2:


----------



## ericwd9

*How to make a sticky?*



Manxcat said:


> :bump:
> 
> :biggrin:


I hope we can stick this post.:adore:


----------



## Sumahu

*Re: Pup School App*



charis78 said:


> I'm new to all this so I appreciate this thread, I wanted to add there's an app called pup school that has all the sounds you want to socialize your puppy too. You start on low volume and increase as u go.


Where do I find this app? Is it for Apple products, Android or Blackberry?

Sounds like an awesome tool.


----------



## Emmadog

As a new puppy, my husband and I enjoy running in the am. I am wondering when can a new standard start running w us at the park? I will do daily walks with my kids age 3.5. Thanks


----------



## Sammie

*Training and Obedience*

Very helpful. My toy was not afraid of feet and it was a problem. This will be helpful when we get out new one. Thank you.


----------



## lsm52

>I also recommend the Ian Dunbar books What To Do Before/After You Get Your Puppy<

So I'm nearly through the Before book. The most innovative thing I've learned is to feed ALL the pup's daily food by stuffing chew toys. This makes so much sense!


----------



## Myleen

I did exactly that, ...read the free docs from Ian Dunbar,.. bought a crate...large play pen,chew toys (more on the way).


----------



## msminnamouse

I wanted to add my input. 

I'm an owner, have been a fosterer, and my background is animal behavior professional. I specialize in service dogs and rescue animals of varied species. College psychology major, over a decade of hands on training, and ever-continuing education (I keep up with the research, webinars, seminars, consulting with other behavior professionals, reading published works, etc. I'm insatiable and a nerd for this stuff). I also founded and run two large training groups on Facebook.

Please note, the field of animal behavior is NOT regulated. Literally, anyone can hang a shingle and start charging money at anytime. No questions asked.

But enough about me and that. The person who's done the most research on puppies, and is the unofficial guru when it comes to puppies is Dr. Ian Dunbar. His website covers not only everything you could ever need or want to know about puppy training, but also about adult dogs as well. Dog Star Daily 

It's free, it's endless in it has to teach if you want to learn. It's based on much research and up to date information. It's priceless. Yes, there are a few things I disagree with, but mostly I think he's golden. (For instance, some of my clients and myself don't mind gentle mouthing play behavior, while he says you should get rid of all mouthing. The entire household needs to pick one or the other and be consistent. Gentle play mouthing or no mouth on skin at all.)

I'll also add additional links at the bottom of my post in order.

Puppies: An ounce of prevention is worth a dog's lifetime of trouble. Puppies are a lot of work. It pays off, you'll sit easy (relatively) if you put in the time and effort now.

1. Fear Periods in puppies and adolescent dogs 

2. Puppy class

A. Do it ASAP. A week after the first Parvo and first Distemper shot (both come in a set of three).

B. Introducing novel things/experiences equal positive outcomes, dog learns new/different doesn't need to be feared. Medical and grooming husbandry included.
(Please, please, please start on nails now, even if you're only fake clipping, 99% of dogs I meet are deathly afraid of nail trims.)

C. Socialization, so as to help to prevent inter-dog aggression from forming.

a. Bite pressure inhibition, puppies can help to teach each other this. We have to help take them the rest of the way, but remember, we're not dogs and they're smart animals, they know this. Pretending to be the way we think dogs are is confusing at best, and teaches your puppy the wrong thing at worst. Like you're a source of pain if you hand "bite" them, for example. This weakens obedience down the road if they fear you.

D. Safety behaviors

These are behaviors that can save lives, or prevent dog/handler injury.
What I consider must haves are:
Recall, stay (body position doesn't matter), drop (it), leave (it), leash manners for strong/big dogs, not counter surfing, big dogs not jumping on guests, ability to be confined (crate, exercise pen, spare room, whatever you use) without anxiety. (The ability to be crated is important even if you don't want or need one. Dogs may have to be crated in times of emergency, house fires, flooding, hospital stay at the vet, etc. It pays to be prepared for the unpredictable.) 

These behaviors must be generalized to the puppy at a distance too. Dogs are EXTREMELY literal learners. For example, your dog may know the behavior "sit" right in front of you, but tell him to "sit" while you're just a few feet away, and I'll bet you $10 that he first comes to stand right in front of you before sitting unless you've taught him sit also at a distance. 

E. Sanity behaviors

These are the manners, basically. Things to keep your sanity.

F. Adolescence 

Dogs go through a teenager phase. Their brain is changing and also hormones are soaring, this quite literally gets in the way of their ability to think. 

My puppy is going into adolescence; or what alien abducted my sweet dog and left this monster clone? | Examiner.com

I highly recommend at this time that you go back to basics, where needed, and work your way back up.

I also recommend utilizing the Premack Principle at this time. (See links)

If your teenager is giving you an especially hard time, you might find Sophia Yin's "Learn To Earn" program to be useful.

(Carefully consider not tethering your dog as this takes away their flight response should they feel the need to hide or need space, it also can cause separation anxiety/separation anxiety worse in some dogs. Baby gates and exercise pens may be a more suitable choice.)

For instilling impulse control, very useful for teenager dogs, Leslie McDevitt's Control Unleashed: The Puppy Program can't be beat.

Now for links other than what you'll find at dogstardaily: 

My puppy is going into adolescence; or what alien abducted my sweet dog and left this monster clone? | Examiner.com

Pet Ownerships and Pet Resources - FamilyEducation.com (Premack Principle) 

(Different rewards, food is only the tip of the iceberg) List of Reinforcers

https://fearfuldogs.wordpress.com/2015/02/05/what-every-pet-owner-needs-to-know-about-dog-trainers/

*How to find a trainer/behavior professional in line with your preferences, I further encourage you to sit in on a class/session (this does NOT mean a consultation) WITHOUT your dog in order to observe how they train. 

How to Choose a Dog Trainer

http://avsabonline.org/uploads/position_statements/How_to_Choose_a_Trainer_(AVSAB).pdf

http://avsabonline.org/uploads/position_statements/Combined_Punishment_Statements.pdf

http://avsabonline.org/uploads/position_statements/Dominance_Position_Statement_download-10-3-14.pdf

https://apdt.com/pet-owners/choosing-a-trainer/myths/ (Please click on their links for important subjects)

Body language:

(-Eileenanddogs Blog

Dog Body Language Posts and Videos - eileenanddogseileenanddogs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bg_gGguwzg)

Examples of how dogs learn differently than humans. Why your dog may have been "disobedient". I never assume, I always set dogs up for success and re-evaluate when they don't comply. We're human, we err, just as they err too. Teacher AND pupil mess up:

Video Examples for Teachers - eileenanddogseileenanddogs

More causes for "disobedience". I learned many of these by taping myself training: 

Pain, illness, fear, anxiety, over excitement, your verbal/hand cues (commands) look/sound too similar to another behavior's cue, your verbal/hand cue changed since you taught it (humans develop habits, consciously or subconsciously), your dog didn't see you signal, your dog didn't hear you, you didn't prepare your dog to understand and be to be successful at the level of difficulty you're asking for a behavior, you didn't actually teach the behavior you thought you did, you were inconsistent, you rewarded undesired behavior, you created a behavior chain (a strung together chain of behaviors dogs sometimes develop on their own despite you only wanting a specific behavior), your dog is having trouble focusing (focus is a limited commodity and dogs need to recharge it, and build up their ability to focus), your dog had a memory slip, your dog is going through what's known as an "extinction burst" (trying very hard at a behavior before finally giving it up because it consistently doesn't pay off), and on and on. 

Humans like time, patience, empathy, and fairness when learning new things, practicing the already known, or working through emotional problems. Please extend the same courtesy to dogs. Your puppy/dog isn't a programmable robot, instantly obedient to whatever you program, and instantaneously cured of whatever emotional issues he was having. Some emotional issues never fully go away. Some behavior problems are better managed than trained away, especially given your own energy/commitment preferences. Some people would rather put up a baby-gate at the kitchen entrance than teach a dog to stop begging. Or put the dog in another room before answering the doorbell. Or close the window blinds when lots of people are out walking dogs and it gets your own dog barking. Sometimes management can be phased out, and you'll have learned behavior without little to no effort.

(Puppies can be injured by excessive exercise. Too much repetitive motion, and also too high impact can be injurious to still developing bodies.) https://www.facebook.com/notes/5233...oning, Targeting, and Tricks/572289412885273/

Please keep nails at a short length. And make it very pleasant for your puppy. If you quick them (cut too deep and draw blood), shower them with bacon. A tummy ache to prevent deep seeded fear is worth it. But nail grinding (like with a Dremel tool) is preferable, or if using clippers, only cut very thin slices at a time, it cuts down on the chance of quicking.

Cutting Your Dog's Nails . . . How Important Is it Really? | Susan Garrett's Dog Training Blog

Pet insurance is a wise investment these days. There are enough companies competing with each other to give you many worthwhile options. 

Contrafreeloading is a very good idea. Please Google "dog enrichment" for ideas. Mental exercise tires dogs out better than purely physical exercise. (Treadmills are boring and human treadmills are dangerous for dogs.)


----------



## Myleen

msminnamouse said:


> I wanted to add my input.
> 
> I have read and reread your reply to this thread. Thank you for adding your input!!
> 
> Dr. Ian Dunbar’s name comes up quite a bit in many things that I read.
> 
> Up to this point my favorite book to read has been Puppy’s First Steps edited by Nicholas Dodman.
> 
> Dog Star daily is now a go to page for information for me. At this time in our life bite inhibition is my number one priority. I really wouldn’t mind gentle play mouthing if I could only get Toby to not bite hard and think of me as a playmate! He bites on me and my clothing quite often, daily.
> 
> I know he gets bored. He plays with his toys. We go outside in backyard walk, sometimes run. He chews his bully sticks sometimes for a half an hour. And then begins to bite on me again. It seems to be a playful biting but it hurts!
> 
> At this time I do not believe that Toby is afraid of anything. More curious than afraid.
> When we are in the backyard he is into everything ! I worry he might get sick  from the leaf he puts in his mouth, the grass, the sticks, mulch…the stones!
> 
> I (me) will be in the second week of puppy class in 2 day’s. Toby finally will join me week 3 after his final shots are given. He is going to be 12 weeks old in 2 days.
> 
> Toby has had his first grooming experience four days ago (his nails were done also of course) I plan on trying a Dremel for his nails. I will continue to touch his feet and trim his nails always. Thank you! ☺ (I admit I have to get on the ball about brushing his teeth!!)
> 
> My belief from what I am reading is that puppies playing with other puppies is a MUST to help out with biting. I really look forward to Toby finally being able to play with other puppies.
> 
> I love your detailed information under safety behaviors.
> The fact that these behaviors must be done at a distance as well! I never thought of the importance until just now from reading your post THANK YOU AGAIN!
> 
> Recall: until I looked it up in the dictionary I didn’t really realize that it was officially ordering your puppy to return to a place.
> 
> RECALL STAY DROP (it) LEAVE (it) I am going to make it a point to start reading up on training these four important items. I am sure that they will go over these in puppy class but I’d like to know in advance anything that will help us learn.
> 
> Ability to be confined CRATE:☺ I’m very proud of Toby on this one, in the three weeks we have had him he has come to accept being in the crate at night and during the day when daddy goes to the Y very well. Only occasionally will he whimper for a couple of seconds.
> EXERCISE (play) PEN= most times. But he lets it be known that he would rather be with us.
> SPARE ROOM: his playpen is in the kitchen (it takes up a third of the room) he is not allowed in the rest of the house yet except on the sofa or chair with us.
> 
> You spoke of leash manners for large dogs…. my tiny Toby continues to grab the leash when we walk around the yard, he grabs it…growls as he walks with it in his mouth… running off ahead of me. I need to figure out how to address this problem. No and redirection does not seem to work. He continues to do it every time we go out.
> I bought him a new harness to replace his collar … bought him a new leash instead of the strap leash he had. his new leash gets hooked on the back of his vest type harness. Although I really like the fact that it’s not pulling on his neck it still has not helped with this issue of him grabbing the leash with his mouth.
> 
> I plan on revisiting all of your advice re: adolescence before hand.
> 
> Your reply to this thread is a wealth of information!! How can I thank you!
> Consider yourself hugged!!!
> 
> I will be revisiting your reply many many times as the days go by.
> 
> My first order of business today was to read your reply …my second is to order that Dremel tool which I am going to do right now!


----------



## lily cd re

Myleen, there is excellent advise all throughout this thread from its beginnings to where it is now and in other training stickies. Look at all of them!


----------



## Myleen

lily cd re said:


> Myleen, there is excellent advise all throughout this thread from its beginnings to where it is now and in other training stickies. Look at all of them!


Hi Lilly,

Yes I agree there is excellent advice all over this forum!!!!
I am very happy that I am on this forum there is so much to learn!!!!:happy:

Could someone tell me how to post a current picture of Toby under my post? :question:


----------



## Suzie Johnson

I recently found a big blog post that has tips and advice for training a new puppy.
https://www.dogids.com/blog/puppy-training-tips-and-advice/

It's divided up into chapters which is nice and makes it easy to read.
Hope this helps someone!

Cheers~ <3


----------



## poofs

I've been searching around and I can't find helpful resources.

Ok, so me and my 14 week old mini pup are playing tug-o-war. She inches her mouth closer and closer to where I am holding the toy. Usually I just change sides, but today she got me good- sank her canine tooth between my nail and cuticle on the side of my left forefinger. It gushed blood and is sooo sore now.

How do I make her stop encroaching on my side of the toy?


----------



## lily cd re

When a young puppy gets too excited by a game like tug and a bite happens such as what happened to you the pup is not purposely or aggressively seeking to hurt you. Try not to be angry.

The great value of tug play is its ability to teach impulse control to the pup. You have to teach a drop it or leave it command that tells the pup to stop tugging. For a very young pup like yours you should be able to tell the puppy to sit or down as an incompatible behavior that will help the pup to disengage from the tug game. However I didn't introduce tug as a game until my dogs already had better impulse control, so you may also think about curtailing tug for a while.


----------



## Chooloo2017

*Is My Mini Poodle Lacking Intelligence?*

I rescued a mini poodle who is about 15 weeks. I've had him for a month now. He seems very skittish which is a minor personality concern, because loud noises or even me approaching him to pick him up and love on him seems to intimidate him..

I am needing to bell train him to go potty and he is extremely disinterested. This is a major frustration, because I am available to help teach him but he basically ignores me. He does like getting his treats, but has no interest bell training. I've tried letting him sniff and explore the bell, tried rewarding him just for going up to it, etc. he just doesn't seem to make the connection.

I thought poodles were supposed to be fairly easy to train... Is mine less smart? Are my expectations unreasonable for 15 weeks?


----------



## lily cd re

A 15 week old puppy is like a human infant in many ways, a blank slate onto which not much life experience has been written. Neurologically developmentally no puppy is able to hold bladder and bowel functions reliably at that age (average for that is 6 months). BTW I have never used potty bells, so I can't address that issue too well.

You mentioned that you rescued this puppy. What do you mean by that? He was from a puppy mill? He was abused/neglected? Has this puppy experienced physical injury that might have impaired his development? Has this puppy suffered conditions that have caused fearfulness? If you can explain some of these things in further detail (and I might suggest starting a new thread to do this) we should be able to provide further insights for you.

He looks very cute!


----------



## lisasgirl

The way I taught the bells was to train "touch" (some people call it a hand target) first. Basically you hold your hand right in front of your puppy's nose and then give them a treat every time they touch their nose to your palm. Then you slowly increase the distance between them and your hand to see if they'll seek it out. Once they're reliably and happily running to you to touch your hand, then you put your hand on the other side of the bells. When they touch the bells, make it a big deal and immediately head outside. After a while, they should figure it out.

Have you thought about going to a puppy training class with him? That can be a great avenue for socialization, which should help with some of the fearfulness. Just talk with the trainer about it before you go in case they need to provide a hiding spot for him to retreat to if he gets overwhelmed during class.


----------



## Chooloo2017

Oh, good thoughts! Thank you. I'll try the touch command and see if that'll help. I do not know much about his upbringing other than him having some serious your mites when I got him. The lady who was taking care of him before I took him did not seem like the type to be intimidating or abusive, but from what she said he kind of fended for himself outside with some other dogs. Maybe he was picked on there by them? We are a very gentle home, hopefully he will learn to trust us soon.  I do not know how how to start a new thread's? I will have to look into that!


----------



## lily cd re

Oh I am glad to know nothing overtly terrible happened to him. I am sure that he will come around once he relaxes into your home a bit more. He may just not be ready to trust his circumstances yet.

To start a new thread, just go to the area where you want it to be and above where all the current threads are listed on the left side you will see a button to click to start a new thread.


----------



## Chooloo2017

Thank you!!


----------



## bumblethespoo

I was as hoping for some tips on teaching my 10 week old standard to sit? 
I have tried the traditional way of guiding the treat from his nose to the back of his head, but all he does is back up or hop away. I have also tried the method where you gently push his bum down, but, once again, he moves away - I can't even get his butt to hit the floor!
I've never had these problems with training a dog before, so was hoping for some tips? Today I have started working on teaching him to look and pay attention to me, and he's already excelled in two 5 minute sessions!

Also, what are some good basic commands to teach my puppy? He is nearly housetrained - we haven't had an in house accident for a couple of days now, but we're just looking out for the signs and leading him into the garden when he needs a toilet!

Thank you!


----------



## lily cd re

Don't use the lure (treat) by moving it towards the back of his head, but rather up from his nose and just in front of his face so he has to point his face upward to follow the lure. That should get his back end moving down.


----------



## glorybeecosta

I never had any problem getting them to sit. I point with my finger while pushing down on their butt and say sit, then give the treat, shortly they will just sit when I point and say sit. 

My 3 main words are NO, SIT, STAY and Stay is the most important, I never allow my dogs to go out the door in front of me, always after me, as I do not want them to bolt out the front door in case of getting hit by a car. They are not allowed to jump out of the car when the door is open either. They have to stay and sit and since they are toys, I pick each one up and put them on the ground


----------



## bumblethespoo

glorybeecosta said:


> I never had any problem getting them to sit. I point with my finger while pushing down on their butt and say sit, then give the treat, shortly they will just sit when I point and say sit.
> 
> My 3 main words are NO, SIT, STAY and Stay is the most important, I never allow my dogs to go out the door in front of me, always after me, as I do not want them to bolt out the front door in case of getting hit by a car. They are not allowed to jump out of the car when the door is open either. They have to stay and sit and since they are toys, I pick each one up and put them on the ground


Thank you very much! I've had another go at sit and he got it a couple times, but we're doing short, less than 5 minute sessions as he gets distracted quite easily - ah! All those wonderful new smells for a puppy!

I think that stay is going to be on the 'must learn next' list! Also, your toys are so cute, ah! I'm a sucker for an apricot <3


----------



## bumblethespoo

Thank you so much! I tried this and it worked well until he got distracted - but, woohoo! Progress! :-D


----------



## scooterscout99

*Kare Pryor recommendations for new puppy training*

https://www.clickertraining.com/new-puppy


----------



## lily cd re

bumblethespoo said:


> Thank you very much! I've had another go at sit and he got it a couple times, but we're doing short, less than 5 minute sessions as he gets distracted quite easily - ah! All those wonderful new smells for a puppy!
> 
> I think that stay is going to be on the 'must learn next' list! Also, your toys are so cute, ah! I'm a sucker for an apricot <3


Short training sessions are the only way to go with those short attention span puppies and they work well for older dogs too. We always have a little training around meal times at our house and before I leave I do impulse control exercises centered on waiting to get really good treats that I leave as things to eat as I leave so they don't notice me going.

For training stays try to gauge how long your pup can hold a sit and a down. Make sure you watch for intention signals to break those stays and release the pup before they get up on their own so that they really are learning stay and that it means until I tell you something else to do.


----------



## The Spork

I read several training books while looking for a puppy, I found "The First 100 Days With Your Puppy" by Beth Jeffery. I really love the way she wrote this book, starting with daily entries. If you are bringing home a young puppy I highly recommend it. Also it is free if you have Kindle Unlimited.
https://www.amazon.com/First-100-Da...1&keywords=the+first+100+days+with+your+puppy


----------



## ozmommi

lily cd re said:


> Ok so puppies are land sharks equipped with needle teeth. First we all need to understand that the deciduous teeth are as sharp as they are to help puppies l*earn bite inhibition from each other. *In the natural order of things, puppies playing with each other will bite each other. Any time a pup gets bitten and doesn't like how it feels the message 'if I don't want to be on the receiving end of that I shouldn't be dishing it out' gets reinforced. It potentially becomes very hard for puppies to learn this lesson if they don't have litter mates that help them learn or if they are removed from their litter mates too soon to have effectively learned it. An older dog that has no bite inhibition is highly unlikely to learn it from people.
> 
> What should you do when your puppy is landing those shark teeth on you? There is no single correct answer, but rather a number of strategies to be tried.
> 
> 1. Redirect the puppy's mouthy activities to an appropriate chew toy. A kong or similar toy filled with a portion of the pup's kibble in a way that a bit of work is required to get the kibble is one strategy.
> 
> 2. If the pup has gotten overexcited and is therefore being mouthy help the pup calm down with a bit of a time out. Generally if you just stop moving and tuck your hands into your pockets or fold your arms in front of you and break your eye contact the pup will settle down. Take a calming breath while you are doing this. It will help you be relaxed too. Since your calmness sends calming signals to your pup it will be good for both of you.
> 
> 3. Many advocate giving the pup a signal that the biting hurts by saying ouch or giving a yipe. This can work, but can backfire if the pup gets excited by your "yelp."
> 
> 4. I think the most important thing for a mouthy pup is for it to play with other pups. My dogs were puppies together. In addition to the fact that both of them had siblings (Lily is from a litter of eight, Peeves from a litter of four, but there were five other pups close in age from a different dam as well) they learned the finishing touches of their bite inhibition from each other more than from us. Since most people won't have two (or more, are you crazy) puppies in their home at the same time unless they are a breeder then you need to take your puppy to a socialization class that is exclusively for young puppies. If possible find a Sirius Puppy class (http://dogstardaily.com). Take your vet and breeder's advice about being in contact with other puppies in the context of immunizations, but also be aware that there is good science that shows the risk of acquiring parvovirus at a puppy class is very low (also see Dog Star Daily for info) and will be especially low if the class follows Dr. Dunbar's recommendations about hygiene.




Hi Lily CD, I have read a lot of your post and I agree and respect your methodology on training. I know this an old post, but I hope you can give me some ideas. Finn is 18 weeks old and a big boy. (Standard) He is EXTREMELY mouthy and its a big problem. Outside he will jump up and grab onto my sweatshirt or jacket from behind. If he is sitting and calm and I will reach out to stroke his head he will lovingly mouth my hand. It's a constant thing he does. I try redirecting, yelping, providing interesting chews, etc. He is very independent even from the time I went to get him at 7 weeks old. I am wondering how much he was handled as a puppy. I am working on changing that as I want to snuggle with this fur ball. His nippiness is almost like he thinks that is how to show affection and doesn't want to be caressed. I want to make it clear that there is absolutely no aggressive behavior at all.
Does this give you enough to make any suggestions?
Thanks in advance for any observations on this behavior.
Ozmommi


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## lily cd re

Thank you for your kind words and for thinking I will have some helpful suggestions for you. Obviously your boy learned good bite inhibition and that is a huge plus for you.

He sounds like a pretty typical moderate to high drive pup with some prey drive in him. I would try getting a flirt pole for him. Since Finn is still actively growing I wouldn't encourage him to jump for the lure, but instead make a game out of having him chase it on the ground. This should burn off some energy and help make it easier to control the mouthy, nippy stuff. The other general kind of thing I would work on are impulse control games. You can either sit on the floor or on a chair for this. Get a bunch of small treats for each hand and let Finn know you have them. Then just sit there with your hands closed on your knees. He will try to mug you for the treats but don't let him have any. Don't say anything either. You want to give Finn a chance to figure this out for himself. The instant he stops trying to get the treats give him one and then resume your quiet position with your hands on your knees. Let him try to get a treat but again wait until he stops to give him one. You will be amazed how fast he will figure out that leaving you alone and unmolested is the key to the treats. Once he has that part down then you can wait longer intervals before giving the treat and then wait until he offers eye contact for the treat. Then increase the duration of the eye contact before giving the treat. I had a woman come with a just under 1 year old portie today for my novice class. I had never met them before and the biggest thing I noticed was that the dog had no impulse control and couldn't pay attention with the distraction of the other dogs in the class and my two poodles behind the desk. I asked the handler if the dog would work for me and she said yes so I took the dog and did that impulse control game and she got it in about three tries of serious mugging me that the back away and sit was what got the treat and was sitting very quickly. The great thing about that game is that the dog figures it out for themselves so it gets reinforced very quickly. 

LMK if those things help. I think they should.


----------



## ozmommi

lily cd re said:


> Thank you for your kind words and for thinking I will have some helpful suggestions for you. Obviously your boy learned good bite inhibition and that is a huge plus for you.
> 
> He sounds like a pretty typical moderate to high drive pup with some prey drive in him. I would try getting a flirt pole for him. Since Finn is still actively growing I wouldn't encourage him to jump for the lure, but instead make a game out of having him chase it on the ground. This should burn off some energy and help make it easier to control the mouthy, nippy stuff. The other general kind of thing I would work on are impulse control games. You can either sit on the floor or on a chair for this. Get a bunch of small treats for each hand and let Finn know you have them. Then just sit there with your hands closed on your knees. He will try to mug you for the treats but don't let him have any. Don't say anything either. You want to give Finn a chance to figure this out for himself. The instant he stops trying to get the treats give him one and then resume your quiet position with your hands on your knees. Let him try to get a treat but again wait until he stops to give him one. You will be amazed how fast he will figure out that leaving you alone and unmolested is the key to the treats. Once he has that part down then you can wait longer intervals before giving the treat and then wait until he offers eye contact for the treat. Then increase the duration of the eye contact before giving the treat. I had a woman come with a just under 1 year old portie today for my novice class. I had never met them before and the biggest thing I noticed was that the dog had no impulse control and couldn't pay attention with the distraction of the other dogs in the class and my two poodles behind the desk. I asked the handler if the dog would work for me and she said yes so I took the dog and did that impulse control game and she got it in about three tries of serious mugging me that the back away and sit was what got the treat and was sitting very quickly. The great thing about that game is that the dog figures it out for themselves so it gets reinforced very quickly.
> 
> LMK if those things help. I think they should.




OK, that gives me a place to start. I have never had this issue before, but I was sure that you would have some ideas. I also just got Ian Dunbar's "Before and After" puppy book and I'm hooking up now to start it. Think that's the name of it. 
Thank You for the super quick response. I'll let you know.....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Maggied

I am not a good trainer. I did find it helpful with my pups to keep them on a leash (I was home much of the time) attached to my belt. They and I seemed to know when they had to go potty (restless I think) and would go outside or to the pad, even carried quickly during a GI problem. (Apartment and lousy weather at times). This seemed to get things off easily with the training. And neither of us minded being close to each other. I did crate them both when I slept when they were babies.


----------



## thomask9deb

*Dog training methods*

I would like to contribute an article about "Dog Training Styles and Theories: Which is the Best?"
Hope you all like it

Thanks


----------



## Pudelherz

I'm reading the book before and after you get the puppy right now. We hope we'll get our puppy in August. But he will be at least 10 weeks old before he comes home to us, maybe 12, depending when his mother weens him. In his book Ian Dunbar stresses that training the first 12 weeks of puppy hood is crucial. How am I supposed to do that?


----------



## lily cd re

Will your puppy be a toy poodle, if so then keeping the puppy with the breeder is important developmentally. Also with toy poodles the litters are often smaller with perhaps only one pup or maybe two or three. If the breeder is a good breeder they will do a lot of the things that Ian thinks are important for early socialization. Most standard breeders tend not to keep puppies so long because they are bigger and not really at risk of hypoglycemia. The litters also tend to be bigger so puppy training and socialization is more easily done by the individual puppy owners who will easily focus on their single pup.


You should talk to the breeder about what work they do with their pups before they send them to their forever homes.


----------



## mydoglover

ericwd9 said:


> *Early Days of Puppy Training*
> 
> How to Train Your New Puppy.
> I will confine this thread to puppies to live in the home with a family.
> I will add to it as needed.
> 
> Coming Home.
> You have decided on a poodle as your preferred breed. You have noted that there are three recognized sizes of poodle. The three sizes do behave differently to a small extent but that should be left for another thread.
> Be Prepared. Have all the things you will need, of the right size to suit your new puppy, ready, before it arrives. Make decisions about how your new family member is to live and interact with you. Will he have his own sleeping place or will he sleep with you? Where will he eat? Will he have his own door to a safe area to pee and poo, or will you take him out. Will he be allowed on furniture and laps? Have in mind the size he will be when grown. A 60lb dog is not a lap dog. Start off as you intend to finish. There is no sense in allowing the puppy on your lap or your bed and then banning the grown dog.
> 
> House Training.
> Are you going to be home all the time during the early months? If so you may not need to “crate train” because you can follow the puppy around all day and barricade or lock off areas of the home where the puppy is not to go. You can train the puppy to behave as you wish by rewarding good behavior and showing disapproval of bad behavior. Pain should not be used for admonishment. Every time he (I will assume male all through) picks up or mouths anything he is not to, admonish him and move him away from the object. This applies to anything he does that is not approved of. Have him know the difference between your “stuff” and his “stuff”. Any time you give him something that is his, including food, give it with ceremony saying something like “Fido’s food” or “Fido’s ball”. When he picks up something of yours, take it from him and say something like, “Mummies food” or “mummies sock” and hold the object to yourself showing your ownership. Puppies need a lot of sleep. If you exercise him well, he will sleep a lot and give you respite. A dog trained in this way can later be left home alone with the run of the home without danger to the home or himself. “Pottie” training will be covered elsewhere and is mentioned in many threads you can search.
> 
> If you are to be away from home for periods your puppy will need a safe, comfortable place to stay alone while you are away. Ideally the puppy might have a whole room, made safe, for himself with a bed, a water/feeding station, toys, a “pottie” area and even safe TV!. Few of us can do this. The most popular alternative is the “crate”. If you are not home the crate will make it possible to “pottie” train and keep your dog safe while you are away. No puppy should be left alone for more than about 4 hours and that is, in my opinion, too long. A dog that has been crate trained will need to be crated whenever you leave home unless also house trained. Crate training will be covered elsewhere and is mentioned in many threads you can search.
> 
> Basic Obedience.
> 
> A day one new puppy will come to you when you call most-times. On day one, if he is awake LOL, stand a few yards apart from another family member. Both of you should have treats. Clap your hands and call the dog. When he comes to you treat him and call him a “good boy” in a high pitched crooning voice. Then have the other person do the same. This is a good game, gives exercise and trains recall. When learned have him sit each time for his treat. Push his butt down saying “sit” in a normal voice. As soon as he does, treat him and say “good boy”. Same game two commands learned. Once learned when feeding have him sit and “stay back” or “back” before allowing him to eat. When you allow him to eat say “Fido eat”. Never feed the puppy before you have eaten yourself. Give him a “little” of your food if it is safe for him to eat. This is so that he knows you are more important than him and when you have all eaten, you give him food. Always feed him at his feeding station. Never at the table or in front of the TV. Make sure ALL members of the family do the same. Dogs like consistency and they train more quickly with it. More advanced training will be covered elsewhere and is mentioned in many threads you can search.


Hey i appreciate the in-depth information provided by you.. Thank you soo much!


----------



## Elizabeth

So, we'll be bringing our standard pup home in about 2 1/2 weeks. Our plan was to use the puppy-raising methods Ian Dunbar describes in his After You Get Your Puppy handbook. I also viewed some free coursework by Jane Killion and purchased her "Puppy Culture" film. I'd hoped not to use puppy pads or similar, but both Dunbar and Killion recommend arranging an enclosed space with a potty area, though their advice differs in other respects. 

I'm thinking that setting up a larger-than-a-crate puppy space without a human-designated potty area would probably cause the pup to create his own, and of course I want to avoid that. Is there any way around this problem, or should I accept that the benefits of the indoor area, where the pup can be left alone for longer periods without crate-level restriction, outweigh the negative of indoor pottying?

As always, I am very grateful for the knowledgeable and patient members who answer questions from newbies and hope that someday I can provide useful advice as well!


----------



## PeggyTheParti

Elizabeth said:


> So, we'll be bringing our standard pup home in about 2 1/2 weeks. Our plan was to use the puppy-raising methods Ian Dunbar describes in his After You Get Your Puppy handbook. I also viewed some free coursework by Jane Killion and purchased her "Puppy Culture" film. I'd hoped not to use puppy pads or similar, but both Dunbar and Killion recommend arranging an enclosed space with a potty area, though their advice differs in other respects.
> 
> I'm thinking that setting up a larger-than-a-crate puppy space without a human-designated potty area would probably cause the pup to create his own, and of course I want to avoid that. Is there any way around this problem, or should I accept that the benefits of the indoor area, where the pup can be left alone for longer periods without crate-level restriction, outweigh the negative of indoor pottying?
> 
> As always, I am very grateful for the knowledgeable and patient members who answer questions from newbies and hope that someday I can provide useful advice as well!


Exciting times!! Can't wait for pics. 

I would only ever use Dunbar's long-term confinement set-up for long-term confinement. Will your puppy be spending long periods alone? 

We never had need for an indoor potty area as we were at home during the day and would crate her while we ran errands, staying away only as long as we knew she could comfortably nap.

We did attach an exercise pen to her crate, but she only had access to it when we were around, and only had a single accident in there (which was 100% our fault).


----------



## lily cd re

For Javelin I was home with him during the day or took him with me if I had to go out so I never had an indoor potty place, but rather left him in a crate when I went to my evening class. BF would take him out about an hour and a half later. I did use a piece of sod in a leak proof tray on our back deck for an Ian style designated potty spot for potty trips at night. Javvy was an extra easy puppy to house train.


----------



## Elizabeth

PeggyTheParti said:


> Exciting times!! Can't wait for pics.
> 
> I would only ever use Dunbar's long-term confinement set-up for long-term confinement. Will your puppy be spending long periods alone?
> 
> We never had need for an indoor potty area as we were at home during the day and would crate her while we ran errands, staying away only as long as we knew she could comfortably nap.
> 
> We did attach an exercise pen to her crate, but she only had access to it when we were around, and only had a single accident in there (which was 100% our fault).


I will absolutely post pics! The breeder won't allow visits due to Covid, but we'll be FaceTiming with her and the pups this Thursday afternoon. Based on our discussion then and, I guess, based on her discussions with other buyers, she'll determine which pups go to which homes. I can't wait!

I guess I thought we should go out occasionally for short periods, or pretend to do so, so that the puppy can handle our absence if it becomes necessary in the future. We have no need to do so, though; I work at home full-time right now, and if we both go out, it will be somewhere we can take the puppy. Perhaps I'm borrowing trouble. I guess we'll set up the crate with the ex-pen without a potty area for supervised activity periods only, and move the crate to an emptier part of the house for nap time.



lily cd re said:


> For Javelin I was home with him during the day or took him with me if I had to go out so I never had an indoor potty place, but rather left him in a crate when I went to my evening class. BF would take him out about an hour and a half later. I did use a piece of sod in a leak proof tray on our back deck for an Ian style designated potty spot for potty trips at night. Javvy was an extra easy puppy to house train.


I suppose if we go out for a short time for the purpose of separation anxiety avoidance training, we'll just use the crate, then. We'd use our lawn for outside trips, as we don't have a deck. I hope our pup trains as easily as Javelin did.

Many thanks to both of you. It seems I'm overthinking matters.


----------



## PeggyTheParti

No, you're not overthinking it! You're excited and getting prepared.  I love sharing new puppy excitement on Poodle Forum!

I agree that indoor pottying is just going to complicate things, unless of course it's necessary due to extended absences.


----------



## Starla

My puppy has only been home a week. My husband and I both work at home (me-always, him-pandemic), and our 3 kids have a nanny who is here during work hours. She has a crate in our bedroom that she uses at night, a crate upstairs that we had planned on using if my husband and I are working and the kids/nanny are not wanting to watch her. She also has an ex-pen downstairs that we were only planning on using with kind-of supervision. Like if we’re downstairs doing other things, she could be contained in a safe space but less restricted than in her crate. However, she’s been spending more time during the day in the ex-pen than we had planned and has done fabulously. She has not had any accidents, even with the larger space. I think she’s only ever been put in the upstairs crate once, though she does put herself in there, door open, pretty frequently. All that to say, if you’re able to let him out pretty frequently, he might not make his own potty space.


----------



## Elizabeth

Thanks, Starla. I'm glad to hear you have used the larger area successfully, with frequent walks.


----------



## lily cd re

Elizabeth when is/was gotcha day?


----------



## Elizabeth

November 30th - can't wait 😁


----------



## 94Magna_Tom

I start Puppy Kindergarten tomorrow. Eight weeks, once a week on Monday's. The initial class is without Elroy. I need some training first[emoji16]. Looking forward to it!


----------

