# A Word to the Wise



## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

Very thoughtful and kind advice, CountryBoy. This and your link is much appreciated.


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

DH and I got the flu shot in the fall, and have for the last 10 years. In that time I only had the flu once and that was this past year, I came down with the flu 3 days after my shot. DH got his shot as soon as they were available but I kept putting it off until I waited too long. Next year I will be there as soon as they are available. I'm against parents not giving their children vaccines, because they are relying on parents who do vaccinate to keep their children safe. I have not vaccinated Abbey since her 1 year booster and plan to do the same with Dolly, but lately I'm wondering if that choice is kinship to parents who are not vaccinating their children. Is this over vaccinating pets drive due to web myths and pushing sales in other areas? I'm just not so sure anymore...


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## marialydia (Nov 23, 2013)

Caddy said:


> I have not vaccinated Abbey since her 1 year booster and plan to do the same with Dolly, but lately I'm wondering if that choice is kinship to parents who are not vaccinating their children. Is this over vaccinating pets drive due to web myths and pushing sales in other areas? I'm just not so sure anymore...


Like you, I get all my vaccines religiously, and, having worked for child health all my professional life, think that parents who don't vaccinate their children are dangerously, and selfishly, misguided.

I don't think we can apply this approach to dogs quite the same way. Of course, the herd immunity that comes with wide-scale vaccination does help all dogs; and none of us play games with rabies vaccine.

BUT, my understanding is that vaccines for animals are no where near as well tested or regulated as those for people. The dosages are the same regardless of the size of a dog, for example; and dogs have far more variation in size than people. Dosaging schedules are very well worked out for people, and many studies have been done to ensure coverage without overdoing it. There are however, many reasons to think that most of our pets are overvaccinated, with annual or tri-annual vaccines given without sufficient studies having been done on residual immunity.

I do think that for those of us who do not want to over-vaccinate our pets, doing a titre of immunity is important; let's not just assume that immunisations done once are enough.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Say a prayer for me, I am afraid to get the flu shot as my friend got them every year and got deathly sick with the flu within 2 to 3 weeks evertime


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

It’s been a very bad flu season in Texas. I got my shot extra early this year since I was going to be around my infant grandson. It’s so convenient, now that pharmacies offer the shots if your doctors visit didn’t coincide with flu season. By all means, wash your hands and use sanitizing wipes on shopping carts.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

We get the flu shot early too. I've never gotten the flu which is great because I used to suffer multiple bouts of bronchitis each year in addition to daily asthma, the last thing I need on top of that would be the flu.

Babykins got the canine flu vaccination shot as well. Since we're around a lot of dogs in our classes and trials, I decided it was worth it.


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

Yes mfmst, those shopping carts are death traps. I always use the wipes our grocery stores provide where you pick up your cart, but I've yet to see anyone else take advantage of them. I grab them on my way out too, after I've used the debit machine.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

It doesn't specify in the article just what shots owners are avoiding. Based on Tonka's trips to the vet's, she would testify too that owners are avoiding shots. Rabies only, every three years, 'cos it's the law... but no others for a 13 year old, fairly isolated dog. I don't wanna, don't haf'ta, so I won't... so there! 

But srsly, looking back over his records prior to me adopting him, I saw that he'd been vaccinated for rabies three times in four years before I got him him at five years old. He's been back to only the legal dose since I've had him and is now off Phenobarbitol completely. 

An overdose of Rabies vaccine and Epilepsy??? Hmmmm....


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

No flu shot for me (never have!) but I did vaccinate my two show dogs this year for Canine Flu. They are simply around too many other dogs and I wouldn't forgive myself if something happened. I have spoken with multiple vets who have each done hundreds of canine flu vaccines with no reactions whatsoever, so I felt very comfortable doing it. Both of my pups handled it very well.

I did not vaccinate my adults for canine flu as they are not often in contact with other dogs. I realize that when my show dogs come home there is the risk that they bring canine flu with them, but hopefully my adults (none SUPER old, 8 is the oldest) immune systems can conquer it, should that happen. I worry more about those pups being in high exposure and with what may be still immature immune systems.


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## galofpink (Mar 14, 2017)

Thanks for the friendly reminder Countryboy!

I have only had the flu shot once; of course that's the year that I got a flu strain not covered by the vaccine and have discontinued getting it. My mom after having a really bad experience with the flu regularly gets it now. She told me, once you get it bad once, you will get the shot. And she's probably right. I am in my twenties, healthy, no little (human) ones around, no immuno-suppressed people in my immediate contact and I work at a closed-to-public business. My husband leads as isolated of a life as I do. So when you assess the risk of sickness and serious complications from an illness, the risk is low IMO. If I worked in a public gov't building, a school or healthcare, my decision would be much different.

In general, I think we need to take a rational approach with all vaccines - what is the disease risk? will I or my dog be able to handle the disease and recover from it without serious complications? Can I trust other people around me to protect myself or my dog (e.g. will sick people and dogs stay home to limit disease spread)?

Stay safe and stay healthy everyone!


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

We always get flu shots in the fall. Many years ago we both had a really bad case of the flu, so we have been diligent ever since.

The trouble with flu virus is that it mutates quickly. I've read that some progress is being mad on development of a vaccine that will deal with the mutations more effectively.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Johanna said:


> progress is being made on development of a vaccine that will deal with the mutations more effectively.


Isn't there tho?! I hear about a lot of interesting new stuff happening. Just from listening to the news a person could know a lot more about virus mutations than we knew before. lol 



galofpink said:


> I am in my twenties, healthy, no little (human) ones around, no immuno-suppressed people in my immediate contact and I work at a closed-to-public business. My husband leads as isolated of a life as I do. So when you assess the risk of sickness and serious complications from an illness, the risk is low IMO. If I worked in a public gov't building, a school or healthcare, my decision would be much different.
> 
> In general, I think we need to take a rational approach with all vaccines - what is the disease risk? will I or my dog be able to handle the disease and recover from it without serious complications? Can I trust other people around me to protect myself or my dog (e.g. will sick people and dogs stay home to limit disease spread)?


Good advice.... 

Tonka and I are pretty much hermits now. As much as possible anyway.
So we don't take all medical precautions. Isolation works for us... but not for everybody. 

So another word to the wise. 

If you're at all in doubt, about a new vaccine, a new 'reported' flu in your area, just drop us a line. You'll get the best advice possible here in PF.


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

*It's even worse that we thought. The latest and first confirmed study is that the flu increases risk of heart attack, especially in the elderly.*

"Flu infection raises risk of heart attack in week after diagnosis"
https://www.statnews.com/2018/01/24/flu-diagnosis-heart-attack/

"The flu can increase your risk of heart attack"
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-week-after-diagnosis-study-finds/1064559001/


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

My son was fully vaccinated until he was 3 but probably none of those vaccines did a single thing to help him since he is immunocompromised. After two major illnesses (flu and stomach virus) in nov/dec we are totally hermits now. He only does therapy now, no school or church. It's a bummer but everyone sends their sick kids and we can't risk it. His therapists keep getting sick though and letting me know as soon as they know but it's like the day after they worked with my son. Today I got the text and it's pink eye. Last week was flu. So frustrating! Then I get really worried for a week or so that he is going to get it.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

It is worse than I thought. The Houston Chronicle reported 1,150 flu related deaths in Texas so far. I had one bad case years ago around Thanksgiving. DH and my son assured me they had the meal covered. If all your feast consists of is turkey, they had it covered A bad case can make you miserable for two weeks. We have too many poodles depending on us, so get the shot.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I got my flu immunization in August at my pharmacy. I would never skip out on it for myself to protect me and BF (who refuses even though he is asthmatic and high risk).

My background is in immunology and infectious diseases. For people the immunizations we give are significant in either their public health consequences or in the risk of significant morbidity, disability or mortality. The same is generally true for the things we immunize dogs, cats and companion animals against. The big difference is we immunize children and then largely forget (sometimes mistakenly) about boosting when protection wanes. For example I had no measles immunity when I started graduate school. Pertussis is another immunization whose protection can potentially wane in young adulthood and should be reboosted since it is dangerous to small children.

Now if we want to talk about modifying companion animal immunizations we would move to the model that we should more routinely rely on for ourselves which is to titer for levels of protection and only boost for specific deficiencies as they are identified. You just need to find a vet who is open to doing that. Based on my conversations with numbers of vets they tend to resist because they don't want their clients to get the titering done and then not follow up with getting the needed boosters because they feel like they wasted money getting the titer and now don't want to pay for the boosters that are needed so the vets opt to always immunize to make sure clients animals are protected.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Per the new parents, both DH and I got Tdap vaccines. We’re maxi-vaxxers for the sake of our grandson. No regrets.


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