# Training dogs to chickens and chickens to dogs



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Many of you know I am raising baby chicks right now. They just turned two weeks old yesterday and are starting to feather out. You can see pictures here and please vote in my name the chicks poll. http://www.poodleforum.com/8-other-animals/118097-chicks-2-weeks-old-need-names.html It is also as hot as it has been all summer right now so I took them outside for a while this morning. They were in an enclosed pen (think large soft sided dog crate construction with a top).

I used it as an opportunity to help Lily and Peeves get used to their presence in the yard and for them to get to relax with the dogs nearby. I have taken each dog to see them many times at the brooder in the house as well. Both of the dogs have pretty high prey drives for things running on the ground. They are both very used to having birds at feeders and on the ground in the yard though and have never chased a bird. This will be different since these birds won't be able to or inclined to fly away and they will be bigger than most of the feeder birds.

Lily was just great! I left her loose but brought a ball and played fetch with her off and on. She mostly ignored the chicks but did go look at them once or twice. 

After I put Lily inside I brought Peeves out on a leash. I praised him generously every time he turned his attention away from the chicks. He barked a couple of times, but it didn't seem to freak the chicks out too much. It will take more work with him than with Lily to get him to leave them alone. 

Overall it was successful for both dogs and birds.

I took a few pictures that I will add later. It was hard to take pics while throwing the ball.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

So here are a few pictures of Lily playing fetch near the chicks while we were outside this morning. They aren't too good of Lily (and forgive my finger in one of them) but the main idea that comes across is that she was running around right near them ignoring the birds and the birds weren't freaking out with her playing near them.


----------



## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

Oh my gos, how neat!

And I LOVE that "Peck and Play"?? Where ever did you find it???


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I got the peck and play from McMurray hatchery I think. They are fast little boogers when you are trying to catch them so I don't want to have to run myself ragged all over the yard freaking them out. I also have a neighbor with a bunch of outdoor only, essentially feral, cats and don't want the littles loose and vulnerable to the cats if they came in the back (which they are known to do) or snatched up by a hawk.

They are starting to really look like teenagers, if there is such a thing for a chicken. Sort of awkward with all sorts of fly away looking stuff going on as their feathers come in.


----------



## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

What a neat set-up and how cool that you've been able to start introducing the chicks and dogs to each other. I was wondering how you were going to do that. Sounds like both dogs are off to a good start. And I love the photos of Lily, whether they are optimally posed or not! Yay Lily!


----------



## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Love the little peck and play set up! And I can't wait to see them in that gorgeous coop! It looks like Lilly is doing great with them and sounds like Peeves is working hard to behave around them. Oh and doubt the flying capabilities of chickens. They can definitely fly if they want to. I have to keep all my hens wings cut or else they will get in the neighbors yards or out front, two of my hens lost a leg to dogs because of that and had to be butchered .


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Thanks poodlecrazy for the reminder about flying. I am not sure about keeping their wings clipped since I want them to be able to get away from the neighbor's cats. While I was out with everybody today I started thinking I amy build an additional fenced run near the coop and cover it with netting to extend their range. We have a lot of red tailed hawks here and I wouldn't put it past them to try to take one of my birds.

Lily really was awesome today. She has always rather liked watching birds, so I think she will be trustworthy pretty quickly. Peeves will take more time and I might never really trust him. He has very strong prey drive. He got teeth on a squirrel's tail once and I think it set off an inner instinct that makes him not so able to control his impulses when he sees running things. My main hope with him is based on how he has gotten so used to my mom's mpoo Wolfie. It used to be that Wolfie was always under a chair, under the dining table, under your feet etc, or skirting the edges of the room when Peeves was around because Peeves was so obsessed with trying to check him out at first and then later intimidating to Wolfie in wanting to play (big huge puppy bows 90 pound dog to 8 pound dog). Now it is actually Wolfie who tries to initiate play with Peeves and who will take things from Peeves.


----------



## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

I've had chickens with my poodles for about seven years. One time a bantam escaped from her pen and was killed by a hawk. We came home to find the two poodles lying on either side of the poor dead chicken, and the frustrated hawk hopping and fluttering around the yard trying to get to its kill. Sailor, who did pass a herding instinct test with sheep, will circle around behind the chickens and "guide" them back into their coop at night. I do have to keep a close eye on him, as sometimes he will choose a particular chicken as his favorite... he will keep pushing that chicken and will not let it scratch and sun bathe. I can scold him and make him stop. I trust him with the chickens while I am present, but would not leave both him and the chickens loose and unattended. One other warning... at one time we had an Airedale and a Rottweiler that were both trained to leave the chickens alone. We nearly lost a newly purchased chicken before we realized that the dogs were trained to ignore our flock of 24 chickens, but not ALL chickens. So, be sure to introduce each and every new chicken.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Charmed that is so interesting about how one has to be sure to introduce the dogs to each individual bird. I will remember that down the road. I am hopeful in the long run that Peeves will be more reliable around them, but do doubt that I will ever leave everybody loose in the yard unattended any more than I leave Peeves and Wolfie on their own. I can however let the chickens out and keep the dogs up on the deck or let the dogs loose and have the birds confined. I am sure it will always be a fluid training situation as everybody grows and ages, and as birds and dogs come and go.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

So no one is cooperating today for pictures, but we are making good progress in getting everyone used to each other. I took the dogs (Lily, Peeves and Wolfie) up to where I have the brooder this morning. Wolfie didn't pay much attention at all. Lily sat next to me asking for pets (I think she is a little jealous of the time the chicks have been getting). Peeves came and stood next to the brooder and looked in at the girlies with no big excitement, just interest that was accompanied by relaxed body language. Any time I asked him to redirect he turned to me right away. The chickies mostly just continued their chickie stuff, scratching around and chirping and flapping.

I am proud of all the animals. They are all doing really well with each other. Right now it is very overcast and sort of cool to take the chicks outside. I am hoping the sun will burn through and warm things up so I can do another session outside later today.


----------



## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

We had chicken when I got Carley. Carley had no interest in them, however, Stella has a high prey drive and killed 3 before I finally gave them away. I still get free eggs when I need them for trade.


----------



## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

I'm really, really enjoying your detailed descriptions of how you're doing these intros and how it's going. Sounds like Peeves has already had a big change.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Streetcar, I am glad you are enjoying reading about this. It is one of my big challenges right now to get this all right.

I put the chicks out in the coop for the first time today. After giving them some time to settle in there I brought Lily out to work with her and having them in the coop. Then BF came out and we worked with Peeves.

The first few pics are just of the chicks, who are three weeks old today. I still haven't really settled on names so you can still vote here http://www.poodleforum.com/8-other-animals/118097-chicks-2-weeks-old-need-names.html

The next set of pictures show my work with Lily. She is a very obsessive retriever so if you play retrieving games with her she will pretty much leave everything else in the background.

After that are the pictures with Peeves. We let him drag his leash today rather than holding on to him. We rewards all relaxed behaviors and especially reorienting towards us with praise and treats. After we finished with the pictures, we took his leash off. He did great today!

The chicks are having a good time being in the coop. There are also a couple of pictures from earlier in the week when my mom and Wolfie were over for a visit.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

*Oops I need a 2nd post to get all the pics up*

Here are the rest of the pictures.

The chicks are mostly pretty relaxed with the dogs around. They don't even seem to care much if they get barked at!

They are getting big.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

So I am very glad that while I was visiting with the chicks before I went to work this morning there were no dogs present when the orpington looked up at me for a few seconds while I was chatting at them and then launched herself at me. She obviously was trying very hard to get to me which I thought was very sweet, but I can tell the day that she can make it over the edge of the brooder pen is close at hand! I suspect the others aren't too far behind.

From now on when I go to see them no dogs in the room until I know all the birdies are confined! I am hoping that I will be able to move them outside in about a week. They are now feathering out on their heads and bellies. They are all getting big (will do some pics over the weekend). I want them to have plenty of time to adjust to being outside before the weather really starts to turn. I also would like to have them out for a while before I leave here on September 24th to go to the Wine Country trials. I need to know that Peeves will be relaxed around the coop while I am away and that BF knows what to do for the chickens too.


----------



## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Catherine, it is so cool to read about your adventures with the chicks and getting everyone used to each other. Peeves did well! I love his expression in the one picture - like he is looking over saying "Look Ma! There are some funny critters in this here coop!"
It sounds like you are putting such a lot of care into this whole venture. I wish you all sorts of good outcomes!


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

So now that the chicks are moving outside (hopefully they will go in the coop to roost tonight on their own) we have been making sure that the dogs are really amping up their leave it and showing they can be relaxed near the coop and run. I spent quite a while with Peeves in the yard yesterday and I think he wants to herd them. When he sees them moving fast in the run he circles around behind them like he is trying to gather them. I would love it if he actually did end up helping to gather them when they are bigger. He was very good about coming back to me anytime I called him.

I think Lily is happy about the idea of them not being in the house since I think she was a little jealous of the time I was spending on them. She looked at the coop as did Peeves this morning. The chicks were still inside the coop and so seeing nothing interesting in the run both dogs just went on and did their potty.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

*Chickens vs. Squirrels!*

So I've been making progress with Peeves in leaving the chicks alone, but now that they are outside permanently we have had to go back a step or two. Most times we let the dogs out he runs straight over to the coop and pokes all around looking for a way to get as close as possible. I have reinforced his "leave it" and he is getting better at being called off the coop.

This morning though we discovered the sure fire way to make Peeves not even notice the chicks. Send him out to chase a squirrel!

So in my yard right now squirrels are more powerful than chickens!


----------



## MrsKaia (Dec 3, 2011)

That is awesome! Brings back memories of when we still had chickens  

Our Cal is an obsessive retriever, but with day old chicks in the house, nothing else was more interesting than that. And I don't really blame him. They sound like living squeaky toys! Over time we managed to teach him that chickens were not there to free feed on (we had the adult chickens run loose in the backyard). Took a couple of months though. We started out feeding the chickens in the backyard, with Cal on a long leash, so the chickens could get away if they felt they had to. We would have Cal lay down, and feed rice grains, or scratch, and other stuff to the chickens. Kibbles for the dog if he ignored the chickens. Although the chickens loved the kibble too  We had to give up our chickens in August of last year, because we had to move to an apartment, but I can still leave Cal alone in a flock of chickens. No matter where, no matter who's. Even roosters, which is smart  Chickens will be cautious near a strange dog, but they will sense it soon enough if the dog is not out to get them, and they will go about their usual business. Chickens are awesome creatures!

Concerning names. We named our first flock, but at some point we stopped naming them. We had a buff Orpington that was very shy, and very loud to stuff she didn't agree with. So we called her Grouchy. She wasn't a good layer, but she was a great mother, and she raised a couple of day old chicks that were rejected by other, broody hens. We had a black sex link that was a dare devil. Jumping on stuff, crawling in stuff. Getting into trees. I think she had taken on the job of rooster. We called her Jackie Chan. We had 2 Easter Eggers. One with beard. We called her Bela (bay-lah (short for Bearded Lady)). The other Easter Egger didn't have a beard, so we called her Nobe (no-bee (short for No Beard)). And more silly names like that. Our white leghorn was just '******' 

Here are a couple of photos of Cal with our chickens. He loved them!


----------



## Lavolily (Aug 13, 2014)

I hope to get chickens too - so keep us posted on the progress! Love the photos...


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

MrsKaia those pics are amazing! 

I am not sure that we will ever get to that point with either Lily or Peeves but I see improvements every day. Lily has basically decided she is just happy they are outside so she can pretend they don't exist (I think). She has virtually no interest in them. Peeves still is very interested. This morning when I went out to let them out of the coop he was very keen on peering in through the window because he could hear them chirping and of course then saw them peering back out at him. I called him back to me and he came on my second order! I gave him a pat on the shoulder and told him good dog and released him. Instead of going back to the coop, he followed PF to the gate as he left for work. After the gate closed Peeves came back to me and played around on the deck. I told both dogs to go in the house and both did, Peeves without any longing gazing back towards the coop! 

He would still chase them hard if they were loose in the yard, so there is still work to do, but I have high hopes. Peeves recently had an encounter with a smaller dog who we think he thought was trying to do something to Lily. He knocked the other dog over and was barking at his most intense pitch, but didn't even leave any drool on the other dog. He does have a level of impulse control that I hadn't appreciated until after that moment.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

*Big Progress*

I let the chickens out in their extended run this morning so the only barrier between them and the dogs was plastic hex fencing and the posts it is mounted on. I have always had the chicks in their coop run with the dogs out before this morning. This leaves a sturdier set of layers between them and the dogs.

I showed Lily and Peeves that I had some yummy treats before we went outside. They both went ahead to the run in front of me but came right back when I called them away. Then I went down and walked all around the coop and run with Peeves and let him watch the birds and then asked for a look from him. If he sat looking at me I gave a treat. Same for Lily. The birds were fairly active, taking little flights and chasing each other so it was a very high level of distraction, but I got lots of easy reorientation towards me from both dogs.

After moving the dogs around the birds I took them both over right next to the run and put them on down stays. I moved around and the birds of course did the same and both dogs held the stays for over a minute. Peeves broke, but to come to me rather than to check out the birds. I put him back on the down and held them both there for a short stay and then called Peeves to me first and then Lily. Both of them offered nice front sits without looking back to the run at all.

I am still far from ready to leave either dog loose in the yard when the birds are in the extended run, but we are much closer to a point where I can have the birds out in the run and the dogs playing with me in the yard. We still only play with the dogs when the birds are in the coop or coop run.

I wish I could say I had video of this, but BF was already at work. I hope to be able to repeat this session tomorrow before leaving for the wine country. I will ask my mom to record.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

After letting the chickens out to forage, I decided to bring Lily out to work on having her get used to the idea of them being "in reach, but not to touch."

I went armed with a cooked turkey burger, but barely needed it. She was way more interested in playing ball for the most part. She did check out their coop and run. She also took a couple of small dashes in their direction, but readily came when called. The little ladies were way too happy to be out and foraging to give a hoot about the big black thing that has four legs instead of a pair of wings.









A couple of the birds were in the run when she stopped in to check it out. They can't be seen in the picture, but weren't flustered.

















Here is about as exciting as it got.


----------



## West U (Jul 30, 2014)

You mention "pretty high prey drive". Our 6 month female definitely has this. She caught and killed a bird in the backyard and almost flys through the window at lizards and birds. She is walked several times a day and I am doing obedience work with her. But, her "high prey drive" is a problem. Advice / experience dealing with this is appreciated.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

You have to do things to make yourself more attractive than birds, lizards, etc. In other words you have to make your dog's centripetal attraction towards you stronger than its distractibility for those other things. I would start in a reasonably low distractions circumstance such as in the house with shades drawn. Play little games that involve having the dog come to you from distance or reorient towards you and reward fast recalls and eye contact that lasts. If you don't want to just do regular obedience commands you could teach tricks that end with the dog having to look at you. Once the dog is really looking to you spontaneously lots and lots, open the shades to allow for seeing the distractions outside windows. Once seeing distractions outside is less interesting than you are then move outside at a time of day when the odds of a bird flying close are low (early morning, evening). Continue until in this setting the dog is most strongly oriented to you then work on it in full day light. Use a leash when you go outside if you need to in order to make sure the dog is successful. At any point where you feel like you are losing attention, go back one or two steps.

When I first went out with Lily yesterday I had a turkey burger with me and just fed her lots of bits of it. Chickens were milling around near her. She would glance at them, but as soon as she made and held eye contact with me I treated her. After that I let her decide what to do. The first thing she decided on was to take the chick's treat ball out of the run and bring it to me (thanks Lily, I never would have reached it otherwise). She thought she could play with it, but it is not sturdy for dog play so I put it out of reach. She went off and found another toy more suitable for fetching and was more concerned about playing with me than the birds. She did take a couple of little dashes over towards the chickens, but I told her leave it and here and she came right back.

Peeves will be another story. He is clearly thinking he needs to herd the birds and since the GSD herding style involves physical contact (body blocking) I will have to work with him on leash extensively before I can fairly expect him to obey a leave it and come order. If the birds are in the coop or coop run, he will recall readily, but even when they are in the run adjacent to the coop his herding instincts are kicking in. He is starting to wear the "lawn" in a circular path around the run and coop since he is trying to gather the birds and they keep trying to get as far from him as possible. When he is in full herd mode he doesn't give me his undivided attention. Today I will let the birds out in their run and work with him off leash with high value rewards for attention. If that goes well then I may try letting birds loose and taking him out on leash while BF is home to help.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Today was Peeves turn to work around the birds. I have noticed that he is really having his herding instinct kicking in and he keeps circling and making them move so then he gets more excited. I took him out along with some extra special treats and fed him for orienting away from the chickies. He settled down well and I had him on a nice long down stay while the girls were foraging around in their extended run very close to him. Once Peeves settled down so did the chickens. We ended on a good note.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I have found that the chickens really appreciate being able to free range in the yard, but I only let them loose when I can keep an eye on them to make sure they are safe from cats and hawks. I was happy to get home early enough today to let them out for the first time in a couple of days. Lily was in the yard with us and mostly wanted to play fetch. At one point I thought she was making a move on Rebekah, but it turns out Rebekah was walking near the ball. For Lily if a ball is present that's all that matters. I even threw the ball so she would run near or past the birds and she ignored them. They also for the most part ignored her. Good Lily! Good chickens!

Peeves is coming along too. He is getting more relaxed around them and when he does get excited I have improved his recall with distractions well enough that I can call him away reliably. No loose chickens plus loose Peeves for a long time though.

Here is the ball crazy girl. Chickens are just out of the picture to the left.









As it was getting dark and the little ladies were putting themselves to bed, Salome jumped up onto the nest box. Look closely and you will see a poodle in the background!


----------



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Just caught up with your Lily chicken training and I am so impressed with how well she has done!!! Good Girl Lily!!!!!! Good job Mom!!!


----------



## Lily's-Mom (May 31, 2012)

I just read this whole thread too and loved it. So glad both the dogs are dealing with the chickens well and the chickens are dealing with the dogs too. When we adopted Lily she lived in a foster home with chickens too. I thought it was so funny to have chickens in a suburban LI neighborhood, but maybe it's not so unusual after all.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Lily's-Mom there are lots of chickens in my neighborhood! We used to hear somebody crowing too when we first moved here, even though the town doesn't allow roosters.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

*Peeves saved the day!*

Yesterday, Lily, mom and Wolfie went on an expedition and BF stayed home with Peeves to enjoy his day off at the end of the week. While I was out I got a text that said "cat after chickens peeves save day."

Needless to say I was pretty freaked out so I called as soon as I could. So here's what happened. BF was resting in bed and Peeves came over and started nudging, head butting and whining. BF thought he just wanted to go out to do his business. He got up and they went out on deck. Peeves stopped at top of steps that lead towards coop for a couple of seconds looking very alert, then took off skipping all the steps. BF saw a cat go streaking away from the coop. Peeves gave great chase and scared the heck out of that cat! Yeah Peeves!!!!!

BF had back door open most of the day so Peeves could go in and out as he wanted. Reports are that Peeves was very politely ignoring little ladies, but went out occasionally looking as if he was looking for cats.


----------



## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Oh my gosh! I LOVE this story! Catherine, all the careful sensitivity training with Lily and Peeves and the chickens has certainly paid off.

Hooray for Peeves! And kudos to your BF for his funny text - I LOLed! Peeves saves the day indeed!


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Late this afternoon after I got back from the food store I let the ladies loose in the yard to forage before they went to sleep. I took Lily out with us. She is still being mostly very disinterested. She only seems attracted to listening to them when they are settling in for the night in the coop.

BF came out with Peeves on a leash while they were ranging. He rewarded heavily for all orienting towards him and disinterest in the birds. He made a couple of moves in the wrong direction, but was mostly very good and attentive on BF who did a great job handling him.

The birds made a move in the wrong direction too and tried to make an open dash through the space where Peeves and BF were. I redirected them to avoid anybody getting over excited. We will do more tomorrow.

No sign of the cat today. BF told me more about how that whole thing went down. He said that the cat was the same one we trapped a few weeks ago. Next time is that cat's third strike. I will take it to the town shelter and tell them it is trying to kill my chickens and that I don't know who it belongs too. BF said that if Lily had been home and helped cut its escape route off he thinks Peeves would have caught and killed it. I am happy enough not to have that happen ever!


----------



## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

This all reads like a wonderful book...hint hint hint .


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Hint taken Streetcar. When I have some free time in January I will give it some thought and planning.

In the meantime I will try to post links to some videos. These are from the past couple of days with Lily and the little ladies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jzxLTolKTY&list=UUvg0UyN051LpJ436IDB8KNQ&spfreload=10%20Message%3A%20JSON%20Parse%20error%3A%20Unexpected%20EOF%20(url%3A%20https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D5jzxLTolKTY%26list%3DUUvg0UyN051LpJ436IDB8KNQ)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNRSqcHPY0M&list=UUvg0UyN051LpJ436IDB8KNQ&index=1&spfreload=10%20Message%3A%20JSON%20Parse%20error%3A%20Unexpected%20EOF%20(url%3A%20https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DDNRSqcHPY0M%26list%3DUUvg0UyN051LpJ436IDB8KNQ%26index%3D1)

Yeah it looks like it worked!


----------



## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Is Lily in an HCC right now? She looks fab .


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Streetcar said:


> Is Lily in an HCC right now? She looks fab .


She does look really good, but I am not sure how much longer I am going to keep it with cold weather coming. I will probably maintain it until we finish our fall shows, then let her back end grow out a bit and take it all down a bit after that. Headfall stays no matter what though!


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Lily and I were away over the weekend so BF, Peeves and chickens were on their own. BF said Peeves has been really good with the chickens. He passes by their run and often stops to look at them, but his excited circling and wanting to make them move around has decreased significantly. I had gone out this morning to get their waterer and Peeves was in they yard. I can see their coop and run from the kitchen window. Peeves was out doing his cat/squirrel patrol across the back fence line and gardens. His route took him pas the little ladies and I saw him stop just as he went out of my easy line of sight. I thought I might have to go call him and just as I was going to do so I saw him come back up onto the deck. Good boy Peeves!


----------



## Michelle (Nov 16, 2009)

Great progress! We have a bunch of chickens too (about a dozen) and Yuki hasn't noticed them yet, but I'm sure once he does he will be the little coward that he is and run the other way with his tail tucked between his legs lol...we live on an acre and the hens are on the wayyyy opposite end of the property in their own huge fenced in enclosure where they can forage all day in the grass or go in their coop at night. We used to let them run loose and go in at night but the neighbors started complaining and we would occasionally be missing one and find it on the roof eaten by a hawk...so for the girls' safety we keep them in their enclosure.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Well I had my heart in my throat for a few seconds this afternoon. I went out to give the little ladies some lettuce that was just past prime for human consumption but fine for them. Lily and Peeves came out with me and were just off doing their thing. I didn't realize that Salome had snuck past my feet when I was putting the lettuce down. She was loose in the yard with the two dogs! Yikes.

I tried to catch her, but of course she didn't want to be caught. I was trying not to give sudden moves myself since I didn't want to attract any attention. Well of course Lily and Peeves showed up at just the wrong moment. Peeves came running over and Salome was in between his front feet and he was jumping around trying to see where she went. I don't think he was in full out prey drive, but I was afraid he was going to end up stepping heavily on her without realizing it. I screamed NO NO NO really loudly and he back off. Salome was startled and let me pick her up without a problem at that point. She is fine and Peeves didn't try to come back over to the coop until way later in the day.

Later in the afternoon I took just Lily out in the yard and let them out to forage for a while. I wanted to make sure that they knew they were safe to come out even with one dog around. Here are some pictures and a video link. The ladies will be 13 weeks old tomorrow and three months old on Tuesday.

















































https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OujeMSncPoQ&list=UUvg0UyN051LpJ436IDB8KNQ&spfreload=10

Isn't Rebekkah just the prettiest thing? She is the mostly white bird with the splashes of black. She and Salome (the red bird) are the biggest of the bunch. I think one of them will be the first to give me an egg.


----------



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Sounds like you all got a little freaked out! Peeves, Salome, & you!!!! Peeves was probably wondering what heck...... and Salome probably never heard ya scream like that!!!!Hahaha!!! Glad nothing came of your heartstopping incident!!!!!


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

My whole neighborhood never heard me scream like that!!! It is good it is cool weather and most everyone has their windows closed. BF came out when he heard me and not realizing Salome was loose, just looked at me like I had gone mad, which for a second or two I had. I spent much of the rest of the afternoon thinking about the Marley and Me guy whose dog after Marley ate some of their chickens. I remember reading something he said about how depressing it was to have one pet eating the others.


----------



## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

OH MY ???!!! Sounds very scary, I'm glad everyone is ok. 
It is pretty depressing/angering when your one pet kills/eats another. One of my foster dogs killed a pullet and took it into the shed to munch on it ?. Not only was I furious she killed one of my best layer breeds, she made an absolute mess! It took forever to clean up all the feathers. Months later we were still finding them and the Tpoos even found a dried up bit of meet to chew on ?. I was so disgusted. I have lost many Hens to dogs though, at least 7 or 8 to my renters dogs plus a bunny ?. The last time I was so mad because we even built her a separate yard for her dogs and she still let them out in ours. I didn't talk to her for weeks. 
I don't think Lilly and Peeves would do anything to your girls, don't you think? If they did I think it would just be an accident like stepping on them. 
Rebekkah really is a looker! I just love the white and blue splashes! The blue is very pretty but the splash is just something special. Like a Dalmatian in chicken form ?. They sure have some lovely greenery to enjoy. My hens would go gaga if they had all that!


----------



## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Wry grin it is very depressing when one pet kills another. Our current challenge is rabbits. Sigh they got the mom and one of the litter mates when somehow they got out of their cage so now I have the survivors in the house. Poor Phoenix and Apollo are going crazy and I am getting in a lot of MINE leave it. Apollo is starting to ignore them but Phoenix just can't help shoving the cage to make them jump around. Unfortunately he got caught doing that this evening to another of the outside rabbits. DH really got on him for that trick. 

Phoenixs challenge https://flic.kr/p/p4m4eg


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I don't know why I didn't yell "leave it" instead of NO. I guess I was too freaked out. Lily would definitely not hurt any of them on purpose. Peeves I don't think so either, but I am not sure that it would be a good outcome if he got overexcited by a big chase. 

They are all doing well and getting big. It is supposed to really get cold and stay cold for a few days later this week. This will be the first time the ladies will have to deal with lasting cold. They had been molting, but seem to have finished just in the nick of time.


----------



## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

WE get excited also and NO comes out easier then Leave It hence the word MINE as a form of leave it at my house I can yell MINE in place of NO it helps a bit also once they learn MINE as another word for leave this animal alone I can simply transfer it to any animal by claiming it. Grin that makes life easier when I bring in new stock.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I was glad to have Lily out with me this afternoon when I had the chickens out to range in the yard because a sharp shinned hawk went right over the top of my backyard peach tree! I never plan to leave them alone in the yard because of hawks, but I think having Lily with us is even more of a disincentive to predators.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsJIletBME4&list=UUvg0UyN051LpJ436IDB8KNQ&index=2&spfreload=10


----------



## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

I saw this today and thought of your 'farm'. 

Some fancy-lookin' birds in here, eh? The Silver Lace one sure stands out! A couple of them are so fluffy they remind me of Cotons. lol

In photos: Poultry fanciers strike a pose - The Globe and Mail


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Those are all pretty birds! PoodleCrazy has silkies and polish. Thanks for thinking of me Frank.


----------



## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

*Dis-Grace.*

Today Grace had a play date with her friend Ruby. Grace is trained not to chase or menace wild birds, nesting on her beach. Ruby is trained not to hassle the Chickens, she shares her large yard with. After all the usual bowing, chase and boxing matches, they decided the Chickens wanted to play chase too!!! Sadly one old bird (who has chicks) lost a lot of her feathers and was blooded. When the two were together they most likely formed a hunt pack. She is now in Dis-Grace and might no longer be welcome, despite the produce from my hydroponics Greenhouse, that we took along. One "leave it" was enough to call her off. "A NO chase the birdies" as a back up but the damage is sadly done.
Eric.


----------



## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

Just like kids; you take them somewhere and all common sense flies out the window! Poor Grace. I can just imagine how exciting the scene was with feathers flying and the old biddy squawking.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

We had a cat in the yard the other morning, so Peeves CG (chicken guardian) saved the day again. He really seems to have a sense of protectiveness towards the birds, but is still not ready to be loose with them.

Salome seems to have a crush on Peeves. She follows him along the fence line of their run and is always trying to make eye contact with him when he is in the yard. It is very funny.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

So the chickens need nails trimmed for the first time. They haven't been able to be out scratching around in the yard so much because they have usually put themselves to bed before anyone gets home and since they have denuded their run of all vegetation I noticed this week some sharp claws.Before BF went out to hang with his buddies for the afternoon (racing slot cars) we decided to get a start on the trimming. I got Salome in hand and BF did the trimming. We quicked one nail (not badly, styptic on hand took care of it right away (will double check her through the day though)). 

After we finished her nails, BF brought Peeves out on leash and we let them look each other over. Peeves was very excited at first and Salome did some squawking but they both settled down very quickly. We let Peeves off leash and he went running of to get one of his favorite big jolly balls. He was wrestling with it like he wanted to kill it at first (I read that as displacement behavior) but he even settled down to normal play with the ball very quickly. He did some fetch throws with BF and every time he came back with the ball we let him see Salome as closely as we could with her staying quiet. He would wrestle for the ball with BF and I saw him glance at her but then quickly go back to his play. BF took Peeves back inside and treated him while I put Salome back with the other birds.

When BF was leaving we all went outside. I had treats for the birds. Peeves was very excited at seeing them after his close up with Salome, but he came very promptly when I called him away from their run. It will be a very long time, if ever, that we would consider having Peeves loose in the yard with loose birds, but I think the kind of things we did today should help us get to the point where if that were to happen by accident we could call him away from them with reliable responsiveness from Peeves.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

*Something new to work on*

Peeves and Reb got into a staring match this morning. Needless to say they are both boys for whom staring matches are not likely to have pretty endings. Reb was out in the run and Peeves had stopped on his way by and they locked eyes. Reb jumped up against the hex fencing a couple of times in sort of a "mad run" at Peeves who took a fairly playful bow in Reb's direction and started barking. I think the way to deal with this is to reinforce Peeves leave it around the birds, but will be happy for suggestions if anyone has another idea. Unfortunately right now there is a lot of snow out in that part of the yard, so it is hard to do much.


----------



## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

You are correct, or at least that's what I did when the rooster took to teasing the dog. Since I could have the dogs and chickens out together, under close supervision, I would also call the dog to me if I saw that the roo looked like he had evil intent. Every now and then, the roo just had a burr under his saddle.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Thanks Charmed. We do work continuously on recall to make sure that we have a good one when we need it. I've slacked a little because of the weather, but need to get out there and do it despite the mess. and a mess it is this morning. We had a few inches of snow overnight, but now it is freezing rain, so very heavy and soggy stuff to clean. It is supposed to go back below freezing at mid afternoon, so then there will be black ice everywhere!


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Winter put a big hit on working on dog/bird relations! Then once the snow disappeared enough to let the birds loose, the rooster was a bit too crazy in protecting the hens to think about letting the dogs out with them. The last time roo and dog had contact was when I had Lily in the yard with loose birds. The hens all ended up milling around her and the roo took offense and bit her on the butt. She jumped up and turned around. They were beak to nose for about 2 seconds before the roo blinked and left.

Now that the rooster has been rehomed, I am back to thinking about getting the dog/bird relations refreshed. Peeves and Salome still exchange longing glances, but I still would leave him with the girls unattended on purpose.

I inadvertently let everybody loose in the yard together twice in the last 24 hours. First, yesterday when I didn't secure their run properly when I collected the rooster and then again this morning when I realized I didn't latch their coop door shut last night. The girls let themselves out to wander. BF and I each let the dogs out one time not realizing there were loose birds. Short story, everyone is fine with only minor missteps. I just realized I have to go to class though, so I will come back later and tell the full story.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

So back to my earlier story about unexpected dog and chicken mingling in the yard....

When BF and I got Reb packed up to go to his new home apparently I didn't secure the gate to their run and three of the girls (not Sarah who is bing broody) let themselves out. They were in a part of the yard where I couldn't see them when I got home so I let the dogs out. The next thing I new I heard squawking and realized Ruthie was now on the roof of the coop. I ran over to see what was happening and there was Peeves in the middle of three panicky hens not quite sure where to go or what to do. Salome ran off and he started to chase her like he wanted to herd her. She ended up under some shrubs. I called to him to leave it which stopped him in his tracks. Then I called him to come which prompted him to move away from the birds. I called him to come again and he ran right to me. I wish he had come the first time I told him to, but given the high amount of excited distractions on the part of all parties I am pretty pleased.

I put all of the dogs (had my mom's little guy for a weekend visit) back in the house with no problems and set to cleaning out the coop really well now that I didn't have to worry about where the roo was and finally have my outside water supply restored (pipe broke in the garage over the winter). Well after all was said and done this time apparently I didn't latch the front door on the coop. When the girls woke up early and started clamoring to get out one of them must have pushed it open so they let themselves out again. BF got up and let the dogs out not knowing the chickens were loose. Once again I went out to get things back under control and once again Peeves was very good about no aggressive chasing and fast response to my orders to go back to the back door. I gathered up my little flock of renegades and made sure everything was properly closed. When I got back in the house I gave Peeves high praise, big pets and a jackpot handful of healthy blueberry pumpkin cookies.

When I got settled down with coffee BF and I talked about how good Peeves was and how much he seems to remember about how to act around the hens. He continues his love affair with Salome and she continues to gaze longingly his way too. Lily continues to be mostly uninterested and unconcerned about the birds, although she was wary of the roo after he bit her on the butt. I think that with some careful work I can foresee being able to be out in the yard with everybody ranging free under supervision. Now that the rooster isn;t around to protect the hens I would like to be able to have the dogs help watch out for their safety. We may just get there this summer.

Needless to say when puppies arrive they will be trained on proper behavior towards the birds from the get go. Since Lily and Peeves didn't grow up with chickens it has been a special project to develop a set of acceptable behaviors. Puppies should be easier to manage as long as we don't end up with somebody who is all about prey drive.


----------



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I find Peeves behavior VERY impressive! Good boy! ( may his son inherit his genes LOL!)
What a fun summer you are going to have with the pups and the chicken for sure! Good Luck!!!!


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Oh yes, we do have to hope for son of Peeves to share all of his great behavior and character attributes. We just have to hope he doesn't end up afraid of thunder like his dad. It will be a fun summer.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I built a new run for the chickens and during the final steps of installation yesterday afternoon I had let the girls out to forage in the yard. I left the dogs inside so that I wouldn't have to worry about supervising and told BF what I was doing. He came out about an hour later to say that he thought Peeves really needed to pee so he brought both dogs out. Lily really doesn't care about the chickens at all so she wasn't a factor. 

Peeves did great. He clearly watches the birds and is always aware of where they are. If they are just foraging quietly in and around the shrubs and trees he leaves them alone. I a bird takes off running/flying he will follow but I really read his body language as herding mode more than just outright prey drive. He also has drastically increased the speed with which he puts the brakes on when you tell him to leave it. If he is very excited he will then grab one of his big jolly balls and trot around with that. So he seems to have good impulse control with an acceptable displacement response. You can then easily engage him to play with the jolly ball. He will tug for it then readily responds to drop it and you can throw the ball and he will run right past a chicken to get the ball instead. He still is a long way off from being the girls solo guardian when they are foraging but he makes progress every time he is out with them. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks?


----------



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I'm really impressed with Peeves self control! Good boy Peeves!


AND NOW FOR SOME 'CHICKEN HUMOR' Hahaha! Poor Pete!


----------



## RayDerksen (May 29, 2017)

*Chickens*

Thanks for the insights into dogs and chickens. We are getting 20 guinea hens and 20 chicks next week (day old). We have Mateo - a 3 month old standard, Sofie a mix between a small schnauzer and a toy poodle and to round out the pair Oscar the cat. We have had chickens in the past but Mateo is new. For the first month or so the chicks will be kept in a warming area of the chicken house. After they are well established they will be restricted to an outside enclosure a couple hundred feet square. After that they are free range and only go in to roost at night (our closest neighbour is about a mile away). I really want the relationship with Mateo and the chickens to work. We will introduce them slowly. My past experience is chickens are great fun to chase. The guinea hens group together look fearsome, make an ear shattering noise and don't tend to run and so the dogs leave them alone. Chickens on the other hand are a little more sporting and tend to run triggering the dogs chase instincts.


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I would work on making sure your pup's recall is excellent and highly proofed against moving distractions. I would also make sure you have a really great leave it installed. Since my flock is small I make sure that each dog knows each individual bird (I am adding 4 hatchling chicks in just over 2 weeks). Since this is not practical since your flock is large I might try having him meet one or two of each type of bird and show them to him every day to help him understand them. Is he already good with your current birds?


----------



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Well now I seem to have had a major brain fart day, but thankfully good training in the past has stuck with my dogs even in my depths of idiocy. I let Ruth, Rachel and Sarah out for free range forage in the yard this afternoon and promptly forgot they were loose in the yard and sent Lily and Javelin out not long after I came back in the house. I heard a little excited clucking so I went out to find Javelin giving Rachel a bit of a run down near the pool and my rose garden where she really had no chance to find cover he couldn't follow her into. I called him by name and hearing his name interrupted his chase. Then I called his name again and said come and he came even though Rachel was still on the run. What a good, good, good boy! I was able to take him by the collar and hold onto him while he watched her head back through the rose garden and disappear behind the pool. I then headed with him back towards the deck and the back door with him by the collar, but I let him go when we got to the steps to the deck. He started to go over to the coop, but again listened when I called his name and returned to me when I told him to come.

As if that wasn't enough I then sent Peeves out while the birds were still loose, uh duh, what was I thinking? He tries to herd them and they always scatter away from him, but this time they were in a part of the yard where there is plenty of cover for them that the dogs can't really get into. I went out when I realized that the girls were loose with Peeves. I called him even without being able to see him and he returned to me very promptly. Another very good boy!

I could leave Lily with the birds with no problem. She would lie down with a toy and they could wander all around her and she would pay no attention to them, but the boys are a different story, but they showed me today that they remember their lessons very well.


----------



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Good boys is right! I know I could never ever leave Molly alone with chickens ...only mechanical rats are safe from her! hahaha!!!!


----------



## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

I agree that a solid recall is best, with an excellent "leave it". However, some dogs have better "downs" when working with a frenzy of chickens. Work on the recall and ''leave it", but experiment with your pup and if he responds quicker to dropping to the down command, then I would use that... while continuing to work on the recall. If your dog is one that responds quicker to the down, you then calmly go to the dog, leash him and praise. Heel him away from the chickens on leash; do not give him the opportunity to chase the chickens as you walk away. For my most determined chasers (Airedale), I kept her tethered to me for several days when the chickens first started free ranging. I have to laugh about your description of the guineas; they are the only fowl I know that can beat peacocks in a noise contest.


----------

