# ATTN: Raw Feeders



## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

A study yet to come out advises owners to be aware of what you're feeding.

Raw dog food poses major international public health risk


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Wow, scary. Thanks for posting.


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## Porkchop (Sep 2, 2019)

I wonder how the process of freeze drying affects the bad bacteria levels in the food? I’m assuming the more processed the more chance for contamination. 

Lacey gets freeze dried raw mixed with her kibble, and I assume because it’s raw it has some level of bacteria that would be nasty to humans. Me and my boyfriend always wash our hands after getting her meals ready because of this.
Most people don’t realize that frozen or freeze dried raw can have harmful bacteria and that they need to wash their hands after handling. Not because they’ll necessarily get sick if they’re healthy but to avoid spreading disease to immune compromised individuals. Plus the thought is just icky anyway. Thank you for sharing.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Porkchop said:


> I wonder how the process of freeze drying affects the bad bacteria levels in the food? I’m assuming the more processed the more chance for contamination.


In general, labs store bacteria in the fridge or regular freezer for very short term use and -80 degrees Celsius for long term storage to keep them alive. 

During Covid, when there was more concern for getting infected touching surfaces, I was very diligent in sanitizing items going into my fridge and/or freezer. Colder temperatures and reduced humidity also keeps viruses alive longer in general.


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## Apricot mini momma (Dec 22, 2020)

Interesting and causes so many more questions. I’ve been eating a plant based diet long enough that when we decided to have a dog again I was aligned with the idea of feeding him raw. That said, the idea of having meat, especially raw meat back in the house was kind of creepy and concerning. 
I am hyper sensitive to cleaning anything that comes into contact with Beau’s raw food but there is risk. 
I wonder how this data compares with meat for human consumption?

I’m anxious to see more real studies on the health impacts to our dogs. With human studies we can have double blind, placebo controlled studies with statistically significant outcomes. A little harder with dogs.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

That is very scary and it would have made me reconsider if I had been feeding raw (which I did last summer but thank god I am OCD about hand washing and bowl cleaning).


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

If you read the actual study you will see it isn't focusing on raw and it actually includes dry kibble, wet canned food, and treats. They seemed to find high levels of bacteria in all samples of food, not just the raw ones.

The website linked seems to be drawing erroneous conclusions for the purposes of fearmongering.

The spread of multidrug resistant bacteria has more to do with the high amounts of antibiotics given to livestock as preventative medicine.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Don’t most people wash their hands before and after touching (any) food and after picking up pet waste?


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

@Starla 

Unfortunately, no. From what I've seen most people _eventually_ wash their hands after picking up waste. Frequently this happens long after they've touched any number of surfaces. I'm not sure if I've seen any, let alone many, people wash their hands after handling kibble. It's likely higher for raw and canned food, but I'm not holding my breath for it being most.


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## EVpoodle (Sep 25, 2018)

Misteline said:


> @Starla
> 
> Unfortunately, no. From what I've seen most people _eventually_ wash their hands after picking up waste. Frequently this happens long after they've touched any number of surfaces. I'm not sure if I've seen any, let alone many, people wash their hands after handling kibble. It's likely higher for raw and canned food, but I'm not holding my breath for it being most.


I had no idea people actually did something that nasty. Yuck! What is wrong with some people. 



Raindrops said:


> If you read the actual study you will see it isn't focusing on raw and it actually includes dry kibble, wet canned food, and treats. They seemed to find high levels of bacteria in all samples of food, not just the raw ones.
> 
> The website linked seems to be drawing erroneous conclusions for the purposes of fearmongering.
> 
> The spread of multidrug resistant bacteria has more to do with the high amounts of antibiotics given to livestock as preventative medicine.


I noticed that to about the website. It really is quite sad because some people may now be scared away from going raw even though for some dogs such as Evie, it is the best option.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

How do you wash your hands on a hike or a walk? Is that really something people do? Maybe I’m gross.... Lol.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

I have a hand sanitizer right beside my poop bag holder hanging on the leash.


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## Apricot mini momma (Dec 22, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> How do you wash your hands on a hike or a walk? Is that really something people do? Maybe I’m gross.... Lol.


That is what seems the most difficult- if you’re using raw treats or raw kibble on a walk or hike. I don’t think most people touch the poo when picking up on a walk, but I do use raw treats. It’s an impossible situation. 

Yhe article does have a shock and awe tone that strikes fear, without stating the relative impact of antibiotic use in livestock for human consumption, as someone noted above.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Apricot mini momma said:


> That is what seems the most difficult- if you’re using raw treats or raw kibble on a walk or hike. I don’t think most people touch the poo when picking up on a walk, but I do use raw treats. It’s an impossible situation.
> 
> Yhe article does have a shock and awe tone that strikes fear, without stating the relative impact of antibiotic use in livestock for human consumption, as someone noted above.


I don't know of anybody that uses truly raw treats on a hike. I use some freeze dried raw treats but they are sterilized with HPP which is a high pressure processing system that kills bacteria. Most freeze dried raw will use this I think. I also use air dried foods which are not actually raw but have minimal heat applied.

Any time I handle raw food I sterilize the surface and my hands.

Any time I pick up dog poop with a bag I will wash my hands when I get home. I treat my hands as dirty until that time. I also consider my hands equally dirty if a dog licks them. Dogs lick their buttholes and eat cat poop too. Misha knows not to lick my hands which I appreciate.


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## Apricot mini momma (Dec 22, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> I don't know of anybody that uses truly raw treats on a hike. I use some freeze dried raw treats but they are sterilized with HPP which is a high pressure processing system that kills bacteria. Most freeze dried raw will use this I think. I also use air dried foods which are not actually raw but have minimal heat applied.
> 
> Any time I handle raw food I sterilize the surface and my hands.
> 
> Any time I pick up dog poop with a bag I will wash my hands when I get home. I treat my hands as dirty until that time. I also consider my hands equally dirty if a dog licks them. Dogs lick their buttholes and eat cat poop too. Misha knows not to lick my hands which I appreciate.


Yes I was thinking about freeze dried raw.


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## Porkchop (Sep 2, 2019)

Raindrops said:


> I don't know of anybody that uses truly raw treats on a hike. I use some freeze dried raw treats but they are sterilized with HPP which is a high pressure processing system that kills bacteria. Most freeze dried raw will use this I think. I also use air dried foods which are not actually raw but have minimal heat applied.
> 
> Any time I handle raw food I sterilize the surface and my hands.
> 
> Any time I pick up dog poop with a bag I will wash my hands when I get home. I treat my hands as dirty until that time. I also consider my hands equally dirty if a dog licks them. Dogs lick their buttholes and eat cat poop too. Misha knows not to lick my hands which I appreciate.


that’s good to know, I was curious specifically about freeze dried raw but I’ve never looked into it. I knew it was different than a frozen raw food but I wasnt sure how the processing was different. I just assume its got bacteria that can make people sick. 
Although I’m sure some sterilize their freeze dried like you mentioned and some don’t. I’ll treat her kibble and freeze dried raw as possibly contaminated and continue to wash my hands after handling. Like article barely touched on (I didn’t read the actual study), there’s always the chance the treats and kibble are contaminated. Which I’d think would be common sense for all processed dog food? Maybe not. But there’s no way I’m washing my hands every time I give Lacey a zukes training treat. That’s just not realistic.

I wash my hands right when I come inside from being anywhere and always keep hand sanitizer with me when I’m out in public. I sanitize my cell phone every day. I’ve been doing these things for 15 years now. 
Most people used to think I was a little neurotic in that way. Not as much nowadays.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

This looks like another one of those scaremongering articles that is not based on a scientific study. My guess is it is probably from a kibble manufacturer. 

And it says: "The study revealed that Enterococci, a genus of bacteria commonly found in human intestines, was present in more than half the analysed samples.
The concern comes from the fact that this type of bacteria is often intrinsically resistant to antibiotics, meaning some species of Enterococci can lead to dangerous outbreaks. For example, over the last two decades in the US there have been clusters of infections related to VRE (Vancomycin-Resistant Enterococci) - often initially contracted from a hospital.:"

So this is a bacteria found in human intestines. Interesting. How did they then get to dogs in the study?
+ Plus, most authentic raw feeders use human grade fresh meat, not some who knows how prepared and refrozen mixes than sold as dog food.



Raindrops said:


> If you read the actual study you will see it isn't focusing on raw and it actually includes dry kibble, wet canned food, and treats. They seemed to find high levels of bacteria in all samples of food, not just the raw ones.
> 
> The website linked seems to be drawing erroneous conclusions for the purposes of fearmongering.
> 
> The spread of multidrug resistant bacteria has more to do with the high amounts of antibiotics given to livestock as preventative medicine.


I can't imagine anyone not washing their hands after handling raw meat or dog poo. More commonly people don't wash their hands after handling dry kibble. If you watch the recalls, it is almost always kibble that is being recalled for things like salmonella.


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## babyscout (Feb 28, 2021)

I would say that (in general) the highest risk of selecting for these “superbugs” being in our environment is widespread/ not judicious/not following full instructions antibiotic use and not really raw dog food. (I.e. using them unnecessarily and promoting resistance, or not taking a full course and selecting for a population that can withstand the treatment)

That being said, it’s possible to prevent unwanted infections by washing your hands ☺... Covid-19 was a good lesson for that, I thought.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

I am OCD too - and may be going to some extreme -to me it is just having to do something. Paranoid about germs. Wash my hands, etc. when inside. If outside I always carry hand sanitizer. Learned how to make my own sanitizer much less expensive than buying in store. I use a lot. If I even pet Asta there are sanitizers in all rooms. Super careful with groceries, fridge and freezer. This is a good time to be OCD.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

kontiki said:


> This looks like another one of those scaremongering articles that is not based on a scientific study. My guess is it is probably from a kibble manufacturer.


If you had bothered to read the article, you would know exactly from where it's sourced.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Countryboy said:


> If you had bothered to read the article, you would know exactly from where it's sourced.


True, but if you read the study you see it isn't focused on raw food but merely includes some raw food as well as kibble, treats, and wet canned food. The article misconstrued the point of the study and didn't mention that similar rates of bacteria were found in kibble and raw.

Better to read the study than the misinterpretation of it.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Raindrops said:


> True, but if you read the study you see it isn't focused on raw food but merely includes some raw food as well as kibble, treats, and wet canned food. The article misconstrued the point of the study and didn't mention that similar rates of bacteria were found in kibble and raw.
> 
> Better to read the study than the misinterpretation of it.


Not better to read the study and understand the vagaries of it, no matter what kind of food it is?
Better to pick on one word in the study to trash it's conclusions?


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Countryboy said:


> Not better to read the study and understand the vagaries of it, no matter what kind of food it is?
> Better to pick on one word in the study to trash it's conclusions?


No I think it is best to read the study and interpret results appropriately rather than sharing a fearmongering article aimed at shaming a specific health conscious group of pet owners. I just think it's a bit of a pot calling the kettle black situation to criticize others for not reading the article if one hasn't read the study the article is about.

The person picking one word from the study was you. You said "Attn. Raw feeders" while I said it is all pet food, as described in the article.

Pet food of any source harbors potentially dangerous bacteria.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

If all I'm gonna get is petty pushback from petty people, I will not supply any more useful information on Canines to this group.


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## CiaT (Nov 7, 2020)

Misteline said:


> @Starla
> 
> Unfortunately, no. From what I've seen most people _eventually_ wash their hands after picking up waste. Frequently this happens long after they've touched any number of surfaces. I'm not sure if I've seen any, let alone many, people wash their hands after handling kibble. It's likely higher for raw and canned food, but I'm not holding my breath for it being most.


People pick up waste without bags? Actually touch the feces?!


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

CiaT said:


> People pick up waste without bags? Actually touch the feces?!


Lol, that is not what I meant! I'm pretty sure that the discussion was intended to be about whether people wash their hands after picking up poop with bags or other barrier materials. Frankly, I'm not sure anyone who sanitizes their hands after choosing to directly handle dog poop could claim the high ground even if they do so immediately!


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

This seems a good time to request that everyone step back from the keyboard, take a deep breath, and perhaps throw a few tennis balls to the pups.We live in a complicated world, and we're all doing the best we can. Be kind. Food safety concerns are nothing new. Multi-drug resistant organism concerns are nothing new. Advising people to wash hands after cleaning up their own or any other creature's feces is nothing new.


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