# Beginner Puppy- Help!



## fairhavenmagick

There is an upcoming show in January and they are offering a Beginner Puppy. The information given to me by the point of contact makes it seem pretty informal. However, I just started a conformation handling class and they told me the class is ran like the real thing. The premium also makes it seem like a 'real' class.
Here's where I need help! I have no idea about the grooming for an AKC puppy. I was planning on showing UKC, because I am brand new at this and because I won't be able to maintain an AKC coat with my girl as she will be a working dog.
What do I need to do/get done for this Beginner Puppy class? Especially in terms of coat.There is also a 'B' match the day before the beginner puppy that has a 4-6 month class I was thinking about entering. Would there be any differences between this and the Beginner Puppy the next day?
If anyone has done/witnessed a Beginner Puppy let me know how it was ran. Also- how lenient/tolerant is the judging? We have only been to a few handling classes, she's improved but she's still a baby (will be less than 5 months at show time). Also, I of course am learning all of this as I go.


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## outwest

The beginner puppie classes in UKC are so cute! The puppies trot around, goof around and generally make everyone smile. 

Relax! It should be fun. UKC they do everything the same as AKC except you don't need the fancy poodle haircuts, so you may want to do UKC in the future. You won't have the competition you do in AKC, but it is still fun. 

I did AKC with a different breed and remember the puppy classes. They are not super serious. Just have her/him clean and brushed. Get a show collar and leash. Puppies are expected to be puppies and the owners are usually new and inexperienced, too. People love watching the puppy classes because they act like puppies. Last time I watched the puppy match a 4/5 month old great dane stopped in her tracks to take a pee in the middle of the ring. The judge started laughing. They are puppies, not machines. 

You should enter both classes. As far as coat- my small standard has yet to have a good poodle haircut in UKC and still won her grand championship at 10 months old. Coat is important in UKC, but not so much the haircut. I truly wish I could see mine in a good poodle haircut, but alas there aren't any show groomers near me and I don't groom myself. I use a pet groomer whom I love. If I ever decide to try AKC with a poodle in the future, I will have to get a show groomer. For AKC puppy classes, a decent haircut on a poodle should suffice. By 6 months old people are able to get some sort of pattern on the puppy if they know what they're doing. I didn't know what I was doing and neither did my groomer, but I wasn't doing AKC, so I didn't worry so much.


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## cavon

I have entered in beginner puppy classes in the CKC and the UKC and they are so much fun. Generally the judges for these matches or "sanction" matches as well, are judges in training. 

The point is really to start getting you and your puppy used to ring procedure and to see where you are with your training. Also, your first chance to win some ribbons!!!

If your pup is under 6 months, you probably wouldn't be able to achieve the full puppy clip anyhow. make sure her face, feet and tail base are shaved and she is fluffed up. 

In one of the puppy classes that I entered there was the most beautiful French Buldog entered. All of the rest of the entrants had the same look on our faces - there is no way we will beat that beauty, no matter how well we perform!! WELL, the little FBD wouldn't walk on it's leash! LOL!! I am giggling just typing this!!

It was the sweetest fawn pup that I had ever seen, but there was no way it would take one step for the handler! She pulled it a bit and it slid on it's cute little bum and then she laughed and carried it around. Even the judge was laughing! 

The pup I had, a standard poodle, but not my Finnegan, ended up taking it's group and third place over all! That was actually the first time I earned money for handling!! $7.35 to be exact!! They split 75% of the entry fees on a prorated placement basis between the first 4 placement dogs!

What a good time it was seeing all of the beautiful puppies! I say "Go for it!!"


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## fairhavenmagick

Thanks! Oh, and if it wasn't clear to anyone- this show is an AKC venue. Sorry, my brain got ahead of my fingers. There aren't any UKC shows close any time soon and I want to get her the ring experience sooner rather than later.
Also, there is a chance I might actually know a couple of people at this AKC show (I don't know anyone locally who does UKC). So that might help for our first show experience too.
I do have a hex collar and show lead for her. Mostly I am worried about her grooming at an AKC show. I haven't done anything to her other than FFT and a bit of a trim of hair dangling over her feet and her eyes. I haven't ever used hairspray or anything. I will say that when I brush her out (no products) she starts losing that look in about 2 minutes.
I am also curious as to what they really look for in the puppy class. Will a display of puppy antics (i.e. wiggling out of her stack) when the judge examines her put her out of any placement over actual conformation?


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## Randi6567

There's only one cut a show poodle can be in under 1 year and that's a show puppy cut you're going to have to be very careful with preserving the neck hair that's the hardest and find a good groomer in your area whose had experience with it after 1 year the have to be in a continental or english saddle i think thats your only options in akc, akc is I think a lot more competitive and appearance counts I thought the under 6 mo puppy matches don't count for points I don't see y they charge in ukc it's normally free


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## Randi6567

You better get use to the hairspray!! I like the chris Christenson super hold cause it leave no residue and also their ice on ice spray cause it's an anti stat so that's good for regular brushing also go on YouTube there's some great videos on banding poodle hair that keeps the head and neck hair safe


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## dawns

fairhavenmagick said:


> .
> I do have a hex collar and show lead for her. examines her put her out of any placement over actual conformation?


whatch out with the hex chain collars as they will pull out neck hair, and you dont want to lose any of that.


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## outwest

I used a thin parachute nylon collar and leash, which is strong, but doesn't pull out the hair. I used a hex collar with short haired breeds. A hex collar is probably not the best choice for a poodle.


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## fairhavenmagick

Thanks for the advice! Esp for the collar advice (See! Brand new, I have no knowledge). I have only used the hex once for about an hour so hopefully no damage done yet. 
Would you guys recommend a thin nylon slip? I also have a black waxed lead that reminds my a bit of a shoelace, it has a loop so it can be used as a lead or a slip collar/lead combo. Should I just use that? (If you understand what I'm talking about). 
I'm worried about getting something in time for the show, I'd have to order something and between the holiday orders and my own traveling I don't know that I would get it in time.
Can someone point me to some threads or links that takes you through to grooming process to prep for a show? When do you guys do your big grooming (clipping/cuts) in relation to the show date?


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## Randi6567

I always do bathing and cutting the day b4 and touch ups the day of but in akc you're going to need a lot of prep time right b4 the show especially if you're doing wiggies and all that teasing and hairspray. The standard puppy cut is relatively easy you want most the hair to grow out but you want to show off the pups angles and tail set


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## Randi6567

Also the nylon slip should be fine as long as it's strong enough to hold him


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## CharismaticMillie

My handler uses the chain collar with his show lead.


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## outwest

Really? Do you mean a regular small chain collar or the hex collar? The hex ones are very nice looking, but I have been told several times not to use it, so I haven't. 

I did have a slip lead, but I didn't like it because it didn't loosen easily. 

Here are the parachute ones:
collar
PARACHUTE Nylon Collars - Cherrybrook
lead
PARACHUTE Nylon Snap Leads - Cherrybrook

Mine arrived in less than a week if I recall.


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## CharismaticMillie

I don't what its called - whatever they sell at the dog shows - my handler just grabbed all of the stuff I'd need for me


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## Ladyscarletthawk

All I use are the hex chain, and never had an issue with it.. Ive also used the curb link which Ive also used. I like the metal chains better than nylon, martingale, etc. You have more control, and I think it looks nicer. The difference is that the hex are more stiff and take a bit of breaking in. You can only tell it is more stiff when you try to loop the chain thru the metal ring, but once it breaks in it is just as easy and loose as the curb(jeweler) chain.


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## fairhavenmagick

Seems like there is never just one answer when it comes to anything with dogs  Thanks everyone, I'm learning a lot and really appreciate it. I may just go with my hex collar for this show since I have it on hand (also I do love the shiny silver look)

I found a groomer who is also a professional handler. However, just to put Halo in a puppy cut is going to be _very_ expensive, and I'm not sure I can justify it for a single show. Im still looking around for other people but this may just be what the cost it. I just don't know.
So my question is this- anyone who had seen or participated in a Beginner Puppy AKC show (or can point me in the direction of someone who has). Will we be laughed out of the ring if I don't have her in a proper puppy coat? Should we not even consider entering if I can't get her in the right cut? Others have mentioned that I wouldn't even be able to get her into a 'real' puppy cut since she just doens't have the hair growth at this age( ~ 4.5 months at show time). I have no problem brushing her out and spraying her, no wiggies though not sure if they even do them at this age). I doubt she will have enough topknot to pull back.
Tips on the products I will need to get her coat to stay brushed out for more than 3 minutes? If anyone can point me to some websites or videos that go through the steps of grooming for a show Halo will give you lots of puppy breath kisses :angel2:


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## CharismaticMillie

fairhavenmagick said:


> Seems like there is never just one answer when it comes to anything with dogs  Thanks everyone, I'm learning a lot and really appreciate it. I may just go with my hex collar for this show since I have it on hand (also I do love the shiny silver look)
> 
> I found a groomer who is also a professional handler. However, just to put Halo in a puppy cut is going to be _very_ expensive, and I'm not sure I can justify it for a single show. Im still looking around for other people but this may just be what the cost it. I just don't know.
> So my question is this- anyone who had seen or participated in a Beginner Puppy AKC show (or can point me in the direction of someone who has). Will we be laughed out of the ring if I don't have her in a proper puppy coat? Should we not even consider entering if I can't get her in the right cut? Others have mentioned that I wouldn't even be able to get her into a 'real' puppy cut since she just doens't have the hair growth at this age( ~ 4.5 months at show time). I have no problem brushing her out and spraying her, no wiggies though not sure if they even do them at this age). I doubt she will have enough topknot to pull back.
> Tips on the products I will need to get her coat to stay brushed out for more than 3 minutes? If anyone can point me to some websites or videos that go through the steps of grooming for a show Halo will give you lots of puppy breath kisses :angel2:


Is beginner puppy the new class that is for dogs younger than 6 months and basically for practice? If so, I'm not sure if the same rules apply, but in general at AKC shows, not being in the proper trim would disqualify the dog...

You would not need to tie back her TK at that age. Many who show puppies, even at 6 months, will not tie back the topknot. It is explained well in Del Dahl's book - tying up the topknot when it is so short it would essentially guarantee the eyelids are pulled up does not look good! So many will simply brush the topknot into a nice shape and spray it up without bands. 

Have you done any at home grooming? Do you have a good eye? What if you tried to rough a puppy trim? Your money would not be put to good use taking your puppy to a groomer who has not groomed a poodle for the show ring. 

Also, what is your reason for entering the puppy in beginner puppy class at the show? Do you have plans to show AKC in the future? If so, it is well worth it to pay a handler to put your dog into proper puppy trim and you could learn to keep the pattern yourself. If you do not have a desire to show in AKC other than this event, well, I'm not sure that this would make the most sense, as you will likely need a proper puppy trim for this. As I said before, you're probably not going to get a proper puppy trim unless you go to handler experienced with poodles, or find someone around you who shows/exhibits standard poodles themselves and can help you groom.

Re: products to keep her coat brushed out. What you need to do is dry her coat so it is completely straight. Do this weekly. Ideally, and especially at her age, you will not touch her coat with a brush except for these weekly baths. The goal is the LEAST amount of brushing possible while still maintaining a tangle free coat. With a proper bath/dry/finish, you should be able to go a week. Do NOT dry brush her coat and do not brush it when it is dirty. If you must brush her coat in between baths, put her on the grooming table, spray some conditioning spray (Crown Royale, IOD detangle, CC Ice on Ice, Nature's Specialties Quicker Slicker, Plush Puppy OMG, or Coat Handler) on her coat and brush lightly with a pin brush. If you have a stand dryer, you might want to use this while brushing.


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## fairhavenmagick

Thanks CM for continuing to check this thread and help me out. The Beg Puppy is the new class. It is not for points but I believe they do hand out ribbons. There is also a 'B' Match Puppy Class at this show.
I don't think I will be continuing in the AKC. My pup's future is a SAR dog, so I can't keep up the adult AKC coat. I do intend to show in UKC. My reasons for wanting to do this show are for the ring experience while she's still young. There aren't any UKC show anytime soon near me. 
I do have experience grooming her at home. I have done her FFT a few times and just a touch of scissor work on some stray hairs. 
I know a dog can be disqualified without a proper cut. However- since the puppy cut is at it's most basic a FFT, could she be disqualified for not have the shaping a puppy cut does (esp around the hips)?

Here's a photo of her taken on Sunday. It was at SAR training so it's not a great pic and she's not brushed out but you can see the amount of hair she has.


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## CharismaticMillie

fairhavenmagick said:


> Thanks CM for continuing to check this thread and help me out. The Beg Puppy is the new class. It is not for points but I believe they do hand out ribbons. There is also a 'B' Match Puppy Class at this show.
> I don't think I will be continuing in the AKC. My pup's future is a SAR dog, so I can't keep up the adult AKC coat. I do intend to show in UKC. My reasons for wanting to do this show are for the ring experience while she's still young. There aren't any UKC show anytime soon near me.
> I do have experience grooming her at home. I have done her FFT a few times and just a touch of scissor work on some stray hairs.
> I know a dog can be disqualified without a proper cut. However- since the puppy cut is at it's most basic a FFT, could she be disqualified for not have the shaping a puppy cut does (esp around the hips)?
> 
> Here's a photo of her taken on Sunday. It was at SAR training so it's not a great pic and she's not brushed out but you can see the amount of hair she has.


SAR, how cool!

Nah, I think she'd be fine going in the beginner puppy class!  I don't think she's be disqualified! Still would be fun if you could try scissoring her. I still say try and fine someone around you who could help. Maybe there are some forum members who have shown near you?


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## outwest

What an adorable little fluffball! I don't see why she would be disqualified for having a big fluffy coat. Lots of people wait until 6 months to put them in a proper puppy cut. This is a beginner class without points. What do you have to lose? Just have her clean, FFT and brushed all fluffy. You might want to have the wispy puppy ends scissored off a bit. 

I disagree with hairspray, wiggies, dye and the like. UKC is nice because what you see is what you get. If they knew you were doing even hairspray - out you would go. 

Shave her several days before the show just in case she gets a little razor burn. The best look (this is ONLY my opinion) is about 4/5 days ahead. Also, if you are going to pull ear hair, do it more than a week before. I made the mistake of having my puppies ears as clean as a whistle her first time out. She spent a lot of time shaking her head.  Never again. 

Plan to have her bathed and groomed (without shaving) the day before. I have always had mine shaved close the week before a show, then the day before a show groomed without the shave.

I have had a lot of trouble getting a decent trim done, but since it was UKC I decided it wasn't worth the stress and money of using a show groomer.


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## fairhavenmagick

Yes, certainly part of what appeals to me about the UKC is the lack of grooming stress. I could fit everything I need into a small tote! If I need to use some product in the AKC ring I will, but a lot of it I don't even really understand what it is yet so I won't be going there.
You guys are certainly helping me git rid of some of my butterflies. Thank you.
If I can't find a groomer that can help me out I will attempt some scissoring myself. I guess the worst that could happen is them discounting her in the ring and other competitors laughing at us  I'll still manage to have fun with my pup.
I have a 30 & and 40 blade, I have been using the 30 on her. What would you recommend for shaving 4/5 days out?


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## fairhavenmagick

Oh! And if anyone knows someone that handles on this board or otherwise in the Dallas/Fort Worth area please send them my way!


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