# The scariest moment of my life - pitball attack. And do I want a second dog?.



## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

That is why I do not trust Pitts - I leave the premises as soon as possible even if the dog is on the leash :wacko: !!! One never knows which one is wacko-dog and which one is not :scared:. I truly believe that anybody owning a Pitt shoud have a "permission" to have it - like some king of "license to own a deadly weapon" .... You are lucky that both you and your dog are well and alive.

Regarding getting another pooch : )) - since you absolutely can afford it if your heart longs for another one - why not ? : ))) Just - make a decision for yourself and not your existing puppy : ))) ! Many dogs enjoy being the "only" child LOL, some actually hate any addition LOL, so it is really up to you and your wishes : ))).

Good luck with whatever you decide : ))))

PS: No, having 2 dogs will not stop crazy Pitt attack - not even if you had 5 dogs ...


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

PS: No, having 2 dogs will not stop crazy Pitt attack - not even if you had 5 dogs ... 
***********
This I agree with if anything it may entice an aggressive dog more. I think this man needs to better than try now that he is aware of what his dog CAN and DID do. 

I am a little cautious of Pitts - ONLY when I see an owner not have control of the dog or if it's off leash. My daughter and I were tormented on a walk once when she was small child. The dog never attacked us or our dog but it growled terrible and the owner run as the dog got closer and once he got his hands on his dog he had to drag him by the skin of his back while his nails ripped at the concrete, It was scarey and I am sorry for you and your dog and glad your both OK. BUT while saying that I have met some real SWEET, well trained Pitts and I have a whole different attitude today BUT it's very normal for people to have fear when faced with this tyoe of situation. 

If I were to get another dog, I might get a Standard something bigger more protective. Not that it will make a huge difference but I can see the difference when I walk my Poms and my Poodles.....


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## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

Poor little Duncan! I hope he's okay. I understand why it freaked you out, would have done the same to me. All the best!


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I have a boxer/pit mix that we rescued from my step brother (who beat her pretty badly as a pup) She's pretty much our first dog so we didn't know much about socalizing when she was young. She's a little dog aggressive.. but I think that's my fault, I get nervous when other dogs come around and I think she senses that and feels like she has to protect me =/ I'm not sure what she would do in someone elses hands.

On or off the leash in public, she's great with other people.. I've been working with her a lot but I'm not an expert on the manner. I'm really afraid for her after I move out because my parents are absolute complete morons when it comes to dogs and they let her bark like crazy at the pizza guy. When I grab her and tell them they can't let her do that they try to tell me she's 'Protecting the castle.' :doh:

I agree that stupid people shouldn't own bully breeds, at least not without being educated on the breeds or going through socalizing and obediance classes.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

OMG I am so sorry that this happened to you ! When I was a small child I had a Minature named Coco and he saved me from an attack by a Shepherd.The Shepherd disemboweled him. But the dog was coming for me ! I was never so afraid in my whole life Coco saved me and the great Vets in Phoenix saved my Coco ... This dog had attacked others before it was not a fluke....People that own these types of breeds should have to obtain a special licence to own them IMHO. They can be dangerous and there should be criteria to own them . Is it still illegal to breed these pitbull dogs in Europe?


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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

I also own a boxer (much misunderstood, BTW) and I totally don't trust Pits. While boxers are the clowns of the bully breeds and are very rambunctious (thus the misunderstanding oftentimes), they are very rarely mean just total spazzes! Boxers can hurt small children, simply through their overexhuberance and size (jumping on them and accidentally knocking them down - they actually LOVE their little people!!). However....Pits are a crapshoot IMHO. They can be perfectly calm and seem like the perfect family dog one minute, then rip a person's face off another. I'm not sure what sets them off. I guess their historical background as fighters is hard for some of them to overcome. Unless a Pit is under leash contol from its human, I steer clear. Sorry if this offends any Pit lovers out there.


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## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

People-aggressive behavior in pitbulls is no different from the same behavior in any other breed of dog. It's mostly caused by fear--if you treat a dog badly, he's going to develop a strong mistrust and fear of humans. It is not the dog's or the breed's fault. It's the human's fault.

It's the dog-aggression that people try to breed into them. Pitbulls are used the way they are because they are not naturally people-aggressive, so the scumbags who fight them can handle them. It sickens me that these dogs with naturally sweet dispositions are turned into vicious monsters for the sake of money and greed.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

> I guess their historical background as fighters is hard for some of them to overcome.


Actually, in their historical fighting background, they HAD to be people friendly. They had to let people break up the fights and care for them inbetween, so they are actually Very people friendly! We have just ruined them lately and made them people aggressive. 

I love pitbulls! I think they are so cute with their piggy faces, and so misunderstood. I would probably go so far to say that i would trust more pitbulls that ive met then labs. I would love to own a pitbull, but i probably never will. Because i understand the breed, and i plan on always being a multi-dog household. I would Never leave any pitbull alone with any dogs, and would not leave Any dog alone with children (pit or not). 

Im sorry you had that bad experience on your walk! Hopefully you will be feeling better soon!


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## FUZBUTZ (Aug 23, 2008)

I totally agree with Marian. Its the humans that own the pits that I really do not trust. Its to bad that so many of these ignorant humans seem to think that owning a pit makes them (the human tuff). So many of these pit owners should not in any way own any type of bully dog, since so many of them cannot handle them. I think that a lot of these people thought it was cute when their pits were puppies and taught them to be mean, then when these pups grew up, these people found out that they could not handle them. We were just coming home from walking our 2 standards and 2 toy poodles one day, (ours were all on leashes), and we were just entering our own front yard, when a lady yelled at us to get in our house. We looked up to see this lady chasing her pit as it came to us growling like crazy. This was very scary, if a person cannot control their dog then they definately shouldn't have one, especially off a leash like this one was. I am sorry to have to say that I too am afraid of close contact with pitts, which that alone can make the pitt leary of me, because animals since fear as danger. I do know some very responsible pet owners who have pits and other various bully breeds whos dogs are marvelous, and I don't feel would hurt anybody or anything. Look at Ceaser Malans pit, "Daddy", which he uses in trainning and calming of other dogs. I absolutely love Daddy


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

FUZBUTZ said:


> Look at Ceaser Malans pit, "Daddy", which he uses in trainning and calming of other dogs. I absolutely love Daddy


I believe Daddy is actually a rescued fighter, too. Cesar is absolutely amazing with those dogs.


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## Mister (Sep 10, 2008)

That is scary but its not the dogs fault if it wasnt brought up right its all on the owner!
I am very protective of all three of my dogs especially when im on a walk. Its your job to keep a look out and defend your dog from danger.
I once has to lift osita up by her collar straight in the air because some crazy dog about her size (20 lbs) was coming straight for her and wanted to kill her. I got her into my arms and proceeded to block the little monster from jumping up on me trying to get at my dog. I finally had to kick the thing and it went home down the street. 
You are your dogs protector and i will protect my dogs even my 48 pound Standard to the end. If a dog is even playing too rough (which im convinced some people just cant read their own dogs body language at dog parks) i will call Mister and leave the park promptly.
I was at a very nice little off leash area at a local feed store i go to and had a bull terrier literally latch on to Misters neck out of no where! I grabbed the dogs scruff and Misters scruff (who i might add was just standing there looking at me like "help mommy") and proceeded to pull the bull terrier off of his neck. Thank god there were no cuts exept one on Misters hip that healed quick. I also had another time where a BC was getting more and more aggressive with Mister. Seeking him out and biting his neck and terrorizing him. I called Mister and looked at the dogs owner (who didnt interfere at all when her dog was being naughty) and i left.


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## Mister (Sep 10, 2008)

Cesar Millans dog Daddy was NOT a fighter. He got him from Red Man (i believe) a rapper who didnt think he had enough time for daddy with being on the road and touring and whatnot so he gave Daddy to Cesar as a puppy.


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## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

Actually, Daddy was never a fighting dog. He was owned by the rapper Redman, until he realized he couldn't properly care for him.

See Daddy's bio here


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## Mister (Sep 10, 2008)

Oh and i forgot to mention that Pitbulls are not really at the top of my list of dogs that scare me. And im not easily scared by dogs at all. Working with them your whole life and at grooming salons you learn real quick how to work with them.
From my experience one of the scariest dogs and one that i wouldnt trust as far as i could throw would be a belgian Malinois. No offense to anyone that has one but they just scare me.


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## Flake (Oct 18, 2009)

Mister it sounds like you think that us being attacked was essentially my fault? I had my dog, by my side, on a lead. That dog was roaming, and appeared from nowhere. I was not in any way in the wrong.

Yes I am a dog owner and i need to protect my dog, but I am also a young mum and wife with a family that depend on me and I had to at the same time look out for myself, I don't think that puts me in the wrong. I would not touch the pitbull, I am 99% sure that if I had done in this situation I would have been bitten, hard. I did what I could in a freak moment.

I didn't post this as a debate on the pros and cons of pitbulls, nor to be knocked about how i handled a siutation nobody should ever have too. As for pitballs, I hate the bloody things, but I was attacked by one less than a week ago, of course I'll say that. I wanted advice on how to move on, and whether or not I should consider a second dog.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

bigpoodleperson said:


> Actually, in their historical fighting background, they HAD to be people friendly. They had to let people break up the fights and care for them inbetween, so they are actually Very people friendly! We have just ruined them lately and made them people aggressive.
> 
> I love pitbulls! I think they are so cute with their piggy faces, and so misunderstood. I would probably go so far to say that i would trust more pitbulls that ive met then labs. I would love to own a pitbull, but i probably never will. Because i understand the breed, and i plan on always being a multi-dog household. I would Never leave any pitbull alone with any dogs, and would not leave Any dog alone with children (pit or not).
> 
> Im sorry you had that bad experience on your walk! Hopefully you will be feeling better soon!


I agree ! I know im sorry but I get annoyed when people spell it pitbull lol, I say pit bull for short but this can mean many anything really. I like saying apbt. I bet the dog was not even a purebred Apbt anyways its rare for people to have pure ones by pedigree. 

As for people making these dogs dog aggressive its not true. Again I will say this breed CAN be dog aggressive. No one has to TEACH them to fight. This type of thinking is the REASON why a lot of apbt are in the shelters.
I have heard all kinds of stories about show apbt getting out of their kennels and the breeder came home to a bloody mess. 

Amstaffs are seen as apbt but IMO the amstaff breeders have been working hard to breed DA out of them. I think that they are getting it down. 

There are many other breeds that can have dog aggression. Akita's are one of them, Bullmastiffs , Rottweilers, Bull terrier etc.. the list goes on. 

apbt are my favorite breed and I have been around them my whole life I have yet to get bit by one or have one fight one of my own dogs. The ones who bite people are clearly raised wrong or not socialized. 

Cesar Millan is a pit bulls angel he knows dog behavior very well that he can have a pack of pit bulls and nothing happens. 

My bf has one named Jasmine we adopted her last year from the shelter ( I don't recommend it not unless a puppy or a trainer comes with you to choose) She lives with his pit and boxer mixed Frisco. They have no problems with each other and I don't think any problems will happen since my bf and I are experienced. The crazy thing is Frisco's mom was a fighting dog and his dad was a euro boxer ( they have more drive than american boxers) Frisco will not fight a dog flat out. The dog would have to be dominate and picked the fight. My bf knows this and has 100% control over frisco. Hence why him and Jasmine play 24/7 in his yard lol. 

I had alot of experience with a DA bull terrier she was also HA. When she was in my care no fights no biting of people. When she returned to her owner biting people and trying to fight other dogs....... A lot of owners just don't understand dog behavior enough to correct their dogs. 

My friend Micheal has a show apbt ( half amstaff and pure apbt ) He is a GR CH in UKC he just got Mason his pure amstaff. They do not fight since Michael has over 30 years with the breed. He had to give up his dog Jack ( which was 100% real apbt) Jack was dominate and he would snap at Mason. So Michael did what was best and returned Jack to the breeder. Mike should be getting a new amstaff puppy soon and he will have three so called DA breed living with him I highly doubt he will have a problem. 


Sorry That this has happened to you ! I know it can be scary but the worst thing you can do its to always be scared and panic. This will cause issues with your own dog because dogs feed off of our energy. I suggest bringing Pepper spray when you go on walks ! this has worked wonders for my old neighbor and her siberian huskys. Her dogs would get attacked on her walks because we had a bunch of dumb people letting their dogs free! She started to bring pepper spray and no more attacks. 

Even though I love this breed so much I do not trust loose apbt that I do not know. You never know how the dogs temperament is or if its DA or not. I live in a city where apbt is the number one dog of choice.

I think you should have no problem with a second dog at all


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## Mister (Sep 10, 2008)

Flake said:


> Mister it sounds like you think that us being attacked was essentially my fault? I had my dog, by my side, on a lead. That dog was roaming, and appeared from nowhere. I was not in any way in the wrong.
> 
> Yes I am a dog owner and i need to protect my dog, but I am also a young mum and wife with a family that depend on me and I had to at the same time look out for myself, I don't think that puts me in the wrong. I would not touch the pitbull, I am 99% sure that if I had done in this situation I would have been bitten, hard. I did what I could in a freak moment.
> 
> I didn't post this as a debate on the pros and cons of pitbulls, nor to be knocked about how i handled a siutation nobody should ever have too. As for pitballs, I hate the bloody things, but I was attacked by one less than a week ago, of course I'll say that. I wanted advice on how to move on, and whether or not I should consider a second dog.



Im SOOOO sorry i didnt mean for it to come across like that. I know it was na stray and you were totally in the right and im sure my views on any dog would be tainted if i was attacked by one as you were. Im just trying to stick up for the breed a little bit because i know what good dogs they can be when in the right hands. Sorry again if it came across as blaming you, i totally didnt mean for it to be that way.

I would say to move on just go for small safe walks and then they could work up to longer walks once you and your dog are comfortable again. Im sure it scared him a bit too! As for another dog, go for it if thats what you want. Would it be for protection like a larger breed or another toy or mini? Either way its up to you.

Sorry this had to happen to you!


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## Flake (Oct 18, 2009)

Ok I'm sorry, I'm rather sensitive to the whole situation.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Flake said:


> Mister it sounds like you think that us being attacked was essentially my fault? I had my dog, by my side, on a lead. That dog was roaming, and appeared from nowhere. I was not in any way in the wrong.
> 
> Yes I am a dog owner and i need to protect my dog, but I am also a young mum and wife with a family that depend on me and I had to at the same time look out for myself, I don't think that puts me in the wrong. I would not touch the pitbull, I am 99% sure that if I had done in this situation I would have been bitten, hard. I did what I could in a freak moment.
> 
> I didn't post this as a debate on the pros and cons of pitbulls, nor to be knocked about how i handled a siutation nobody should ever have too. As for pitballs, I hate the bloody things, but I was attacked by one less than a week ago, of course I'll say that. I wanted advice on how to move on, and whether or not I should consider a second dog.


I don't think you where in the wrong at all. Its stupid people like that guy who make things go wrong with the breed. Seriously if it was me and I had no experience with the breed I would be Horrified ! 

I had my Gsd attacked by my friends Bull terrier more than once. The first time it happened I was Shocked ! 

It takes a while to gain calmness no matter what is going on. ( ceasar is like the master of it) I still get my adrenaline rushing when something happens like this. I think this link will help 

http://www.wikihow.com/Handle-a-Dog-Attack

http://www.wikihow.com/Break-Up-a-Dog-Fight

Cesar has shown two dogs fighting and he had them both by the scruff and he held them there until they let go. ( this is if you dog has a hold of the other dog and wont let go)


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

thats awful what happened to you =\
and thankfully neither you or your pooch were hurt too bad

I try not to look at an aggressive breed as a blanket statement because not all pitties or rottweilers are mean but some people have only had bad experiences with them making it hard for them to look past those incidents

my mom refuses to use 6 vets in our neighborhood because they wouldn't treat our Chow Chow ((who has since passed away))
they're excuse "Chows are way to Aggressive to treat" they were almost scolding her for having a chow and children...

but more on point if I saw a stray pitt bull I too would probably be a little leery of it...but thats the case with any stray I come across on a walk
Elphie has become VERY accustom to being hefted into my arms for a nice jog away from a few stray dogs
especially the ones that don't look like I could pull off of her


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Flake said:


> So I was walking my dog the other day, and a guy on the side of the road asked if I knew anything about two strays wandering the street. One was a black and white pitbull, the other a caramello guy dog/pointer type dog. His own dog was behind a fence.
> 
> These two dogs had been out before on my road. They were registered and we tracked down the owner, who advised that they were safe dogs, and he was doing what he could to keep them within his property.
> 
> ...



Thank God the owner was there because you are right, it could have been worse and you would not have been able to control that - A BIG GROWN MAN might not be able to stop a aggressive dog, period this was not your fault! We all want to protect our dogs as best we can BUT somethings are out of our control and I would NEVER want anything to happen to my dogs EVER but if it comes down to me protecting my children I have to do whatever I need too. 

Anyone can be in the nicest of areas and a lose aggressive dog come from out of nowhere and attack - as I already said I can certainly understand your fear and being upset YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT! 

One thing I didn't mention earlier but in other posts I have, we have carried a cane with us because I seen a dog that happend to be a Pit dragging his owner on a walk right down the street.......I am also intending to get mase on a key chain because my life and my dogs mean too much to keep us caught up in the house.

I think you should go ahead and try for another dog, but again maybe a bigger poodle. In time things will calm and you two will be back enjoying your walks -you've just been forced to take extra steps, one of mine is my BF - I dont go without him anymore


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## FUZBUTZ (Aug 23, 2008)

I'm not against all dogs that are pretty much thought of as being as aggressive type breed. We not only own our poodles, but also have an 11 yr. old rottweiler that we rescued from the shelter 10 yrs. ago. She is probably the most loving baby we have ever had. She loves other dogs, and all people, including little children. I trust our rotti a lot quicker around small children then I do our small toy poodles.


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

bigpoodleperson said:


> Actually, in their historical fighting background, they HAD to be people friendly. They had to let people break up the fights and care for them inbetween, so they are actually Very people friendly! We have just ruined them lately and made them people aggressive.
> 
> I love pitbulls! I think they are so cute with their piggy faces, and so misunderstood. I would probably go so far to say that i would trust more pitbulls that ive met then labs. I would love to own a pitbull, but i probably never will. Because i understand the breed, and i plan on always being a multi-dog household. I would Never leave any pitbull alone with any dogs, and would not leave Any dog alone with children (pit or not).
> 
> Im sorry you had that bad experience on your walk! Hopefully you will be feeling better soon!


I couldn't agree w/ you more! I adore pits and would love to rescue one. However, I too plan on being a multidog household for long time and will probably always have cats too. It's a lot to expect any rescue dog to come into a house with other dogs and cats and get along well w/ them. I also trust pits more than a lot of other breeds and that includes Boxers, who can be very dog aggressive themselves. The most popular breeds in my area are Pits, Labs and Chihuahuas. It's the Chihuahuas and Labs that make me take a step back. Labs are hyper and don't seem to have any self awareness. Accidents or not, being jumped on, stepped on or wacked with that huge tail hurts like the dickens. Of all the Chihuahuas I've met, only two were nice dogs. Those two were from two separate homes and lived with other Chihuahuas who were mean, so it wasn't how they were raised. One is a neutered male, the other an intace female. I've been bitten by an intact female and a 10 week old puppy; both Chis and both times drew blood. I've never met an aggressive pit and the vast majority that I've met have owners who know nothing about socialization or really even give damn about their dogs. I personally don't believe pits are more likely to attack. I do believe pits are the most abused breed. Many different breeds (from Labs to Boxers to Presa Canarios) and mixes are often mislabled pitbulls. Especially if they attack b/c the media sends out the message that Pits are evil and psychotic. I actually know of a case where an ER intake clerk told a women the dogs that attacked her "must have part pit, b/c Labs don't bite." Many breeds have suffered undeserved prejudice, but pits are unlucky enough for their time to come at a time when we don't hold the media to any standard, people don't want to think for themselves and seem to enjoy being scared. If it's not tainted food, it's terrorists, anthrax or pitbulls. Oh my!


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Adding a second dog will only make you more of a target and increase the risk of injury to you and your dogs. Instead of protecting one dog, you will have two. Many bites to people are actually cause by dog aggression. The dogs get into it and someone is bitten, when they go to break it up. I think it's irresponsible to walk a dog in area where you know there are loose dogs. Go a different route or even drive somewhere if you have to. I realize you're in a different country, but you have the right to be safe. I would bug the authorities until the do something. If the dog bit you, or even tried, report it.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Im sorry that happened to you. I would of been scared if it were any breed attacking my dog. 

Im not breed prejudice but I also own a Pitbull. My husband and I showed them for almost 5 years. So I have been around many pits or the AKC version which is an Amstaff. The fact about a Pit (american pit bull terrier) is they are a terrier which usually means they have a terrier personality. Most terriers are dog aggressive. While some people may look at an airdale terrier and think such a cute and sweet dog, they are a very hot breed too. A dog is a dog in my opinion and its what the dog is taught (or not taught) that makes the animal what it is. 

At the same time, I do try to avoid any lose dog when Im walking my dogs. Our previous Amstaff was almost attacked from two sheperd mix's a few years ago while walking around the block. My husband had to put her up the air above his head while I tried to scare the dogs away. It was jumping up trying to bite her even in the air. What a scene huh.....Amstaff (pit) being held in the air by owner to aviod being attacked. lol


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> Im sorry that happened to you. I would of been scared if it were any breed attacking my dog.
> 
> Im not breed prejudice but I also own a Pitbull. My husband and I showed them for almost 5 years. So I have been around many pits or the AKC version which is an Amstaff. The fact about a Pit (american pit bull terrier) is they are a terrier which usually means they have a terrier personality. Most terriers are dog aggressive. While some people may look at an airdale terrier and think such a cute and sweet dog, they are a very hot breed too. A dog is a dog in my opinion and its what the dog is taught (or not taught) that makes the animal what it is.
> 
> At the same time, I do try to avoid any lose dog when Im walking my dogs. Our previous Amstaff was almost attacked from two sheperd mix's a few years ago while walking around the block. My husband had to put her up the air above his head while I tried to scare the dogs away. It was jumping up trying to bite her even in the air. What a scene huh.....Amstaff (pit) being held in the air by owner to aviod being attacked. lol



I agree I does not matter what breed of dog that was loose. I get nervous when I see even chi's loose ! And that is True about Terriers being hot. Most of them are and if you ever been to a akc show you can see them being feisty with each other. 

LOL at your story Jenn I have seen Many Pit bull owners lifting their dogs away from an attack.


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

I completely disagree ...

Any dog can bite but a few can and DO KILL ! Many studies showed the same statistics, this is just the one of them :
*
The deadliest dogs

Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, has conducted an unusually detailed study of dog bites from 1982 to the present. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maiming, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.) The Clifton study show the number of serious canine-inflicted injuries by breed. The author's observations about the breeds and generally how to deal with the dangerous dog problem are enlightening.

According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maiming. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Clifton states:

If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.

Clifton's opinions are as interesting as his statistics. For example, he says, "Pit bulls and Rottweilers are accordingly dogs who not only must be handled with special precautions, but also must be regulated with special requirements appropriate to the risk they may pose to the public and other animals, if they are to be kept at all."*


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

That study doesn't sound any different than any other study. First, there are no real details on how the study was conducted. How was the information gathered? (Many are based on news reports, which are sensationalized and full of errors.) It's obvious the author has an agenda. How were the dogs identified? This is the fatal flaw in all of these "studies." The average public, Animal Control Officers and even Vets can't consistently identify a pit bull or a Rottweiler for that matter. None of these studies mean anything if you don't compare the number to the whole dog population. How do you know Pit Bulls, Rottweilers and Presa Canarios don't account for 74% of the entire dog population? You don't, no one does b/c there's never been a canine census. Not all dogs are licensed or registered so those stats can't be used in comparison. (Even though many studies do, showing the lack of intellegence and/or ethics of the authors.) If those breeds do account for 74% of the population, then it's perfectly understandable that they would be responsible for 74% of the deaths. How were the dogs kept? If more Rotties and Pits are kept irresponsibly should the breed be blamed? There's a reason the CDC no longer considers the relevant when they calculate dog bit statistics. I downloaded the study and found glaring innaccuracies in the first paragraph: "...this table covers only attacks by dogs of clearly identified
breed type or ancestry, as designated by animal control officers or others
with evident expertise..." How can mixes be clearly identified breeds? Who says ACO are experts, many don't even have a HS diploma and little training. The turn over rate for ACO is also extremely high. 

This is the only study that I put any confidence in and the main reason is that the authors admit it's incomplete and explain why.

http://www.livingsafelywithdogs.org/documents/DogBitesinColorado-FinalReport.pdf


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

I encourage anyone to actually read both studies. The first one can be found here: http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf Read the whole thing and tell me if you still think it's a good study. The author's logic is very flawed. Why group Rottweilers, Pit bulls and Presa Canarios together, but leave German Shephereds, Akita and Chows. I didn't even see Presa Canarios listed in the statistics and the last three breeds appear to have a disporportionate number of severe attacks, according to that study. Grouping breeds together doesn't make any sense at all, unless you have a vendetta against certain breeds. The author names Rottweilers and Pitbulls over and over again. 

There are plenty of non breed specific solutions that could be taken advantage of. Number one would be to actually enforce leash laws and put harsher consequences in to practice. So long attacks by loose dogs. Why not reward people for training and socializing their dogs? There are already very succesful programs that reward people for spay/neuter. Banning breeds or ridiculous restrictions will only punish responsible owners. Why should I have to give up Harley or purchase an extreme amount of liability insurance? He is well behaved, well trained and I'm a responsible owner. I can promise you my neighors, who are BYBs of pitbulls will just ignore such laws. As will all the other irresponsible people who own dogs that are likely to attack.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Wishpoo I am not scared of pit bulls of any breed of dog. So to me it does not matter what breed is loose. I am sorry the media has made you scared of such breeds I was bitten and attacked by an akita GSD mix with lab. Should i now be scared of GSD's , akitas and labs now ???? 

A pom killed an infant here in LA a few years ago ? do I think poms are devil demon dogs now ? no 

One day a pit bull will change your mind because it just took one dog to change my mind. I used to be scared of pit bulls because I decided to listen to the media. Now they are my favorite breed and i love helping people understand the breed and train their dogs. 

I know i can't change peoples mine but I survive pit bull in encounters 1000's of times and i am not dead yet I wonder why ? lol


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

One of the Biggest problems i have in going with bite reports, is that not ALL bites are reported! If a pit, rott, dobe, etc bites someone you are Sure that they are going to report it and everyone will make a big deal. If a yorkie, chi, poodle, min pin, etc bites someone it Often goes unreported. If a lab or golden bites someone it also is very unreported. People just shrug it off. Once bite reports get more accurate then i will start paying attention to them.


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## artsycourtneysue (Jul 21, 2009)

georgiapeach said:


> I also own a boxer (much misunderstood, BTW) and I totally don't trust Pits. While boxers are the clowns of the bully breeds and are very rambunctious (thus the misunderstanding oftentimes), they are very rarely mean just total spazzes! Boxers can hurt small children, simply through their overexhuberance and size (jumping on them and accidentally knocking them down - they actually LOVE their little people!!). However....Pits are a crapshoot IMHO. They can be perfectly calm and seem like the perfect family dog one minute, then rip a person's face off another. I'm not sure what sets them off. I guess their historical background as fighters is hard for some of them to overcome. Unless a Pit is under leash contol from its human, I steer clear. Sorry if this offends any Pit lovers out there.


Boxers are generally very loving! They are misunderstood usually because of their look, but are very good familydogs. Pitts however, are a different matter. I have tried to be open minded, as I love all dogs and firmly believe that the owner does MAKE the dog....but, I think that Pitts have a slightly higher chance of being agressive than other dogs. They can be perfectly sweet dogs, BUT have a much shorter fuse than other dogs, and while i don't want to generalize, IMHO, every pitt I have known, whose owner swears it is a lovely, sweet dog, has growled at myself, my little sister(only 5 years old at the time) or one of my other family members. I think that they can definitely be very good dogs and very loving a loyal, BUT they are definitely more prone to dog aggression and they have a much higher chance of BECOMING aggressive, often with not much to provoke them.

I agree, that while they should not be banned all together, they do tend to draw a certain type of owner that one should be suspicous of. Due to their aggressive behavior, some people can own them for the wrong reasons and that's when things get bad.


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

I will agree that pits do make me nervous, my shepherd was attacked and a young age and survived with a little scar and some dog aggression issues.

I try not to be judgemental when I see people come into a dog park, i want to give everyone the benefit of a doubt.

While in Charlotte this one man came in with two pits and he had these huge chains around their neck and walking them on a thick chain leash. They were small pits, in fact i eventually found out they were only a few months old. It wasn't the dog I was afraid of but the way the owner was making the dog look. Several people left... even I called my dogs to me and leashed them preparing to leave but decided to stay and see what happened. It turns out that his dogs were super friendly. I was more afraid of my dog getting hurt by the huge chain and lock around his dogs neck then of a dog fight.

The owner came over to me considering I was one of the only people left in the dog park and thanked me for not being afraid. He then went on about how people just don't understand and are biased and afraid of his dogs for no reason..

I went on to tell him that pits are already a pretty scary breed and that adding a huge chain with a padlock on their neck only adds to any media-based fear a person has with the breed....

The same day there was a handicapped dog trainer with his two pits doing excellent recall/place/stays with his dogs. It was so impressive and I pointed this trainer out to the gentlemen saying that he was doing an incredible service to the breed by making them look obedient, trustworthy and noble animals, like they deserve to be recognized as.

It worked out well, the gentleman with the two pits ended up talking to the dog trainer and eventually taking off the huge chains... hopefully he will leave them at home next time. I understand perhaps enjoying whatever image it gives you but if you're trying to socialize your pups, scaring people away is definitely not the way to do it.

His dogs were super sweet though  I forgot I took a pic while at the Charlotte dog park.


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

Oh and that black/white pit belongs to the trainer that was there. His dog was staying just perfect until the owner would release him from position even with other dogs running all around. It was quite impressive.


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

bigpoodleperson said:


> One of the Biggest problems i have in going with bite reports, is that not ALL bites are reported! If a pit, rott, dobe, etc bites someone you are Sure that they are going to report it and everyone will make a big deal. If a yorkie, chi, poodle, min pin, etc bites someone it Often goes unreported. If a lab or golden bites someone it also is very unreported. People just shrug it off. Once bite reports get more accurate then i will start paying attention to them.


Again - it is not about number of bites but a number of FATALITIES :scared:

All dogs bite - only some are able to kill and of those only SOME actually DO kill a human being. 

I did not mean to offend anybody really :rolffleyes:. I just know that I never heard about any fatality in the Bay Area but from a Pitbull (2 cases - one girl and one boy) and a woman was mauled to death in SF by Canari (sp. ???) in front of her own apartment. That was all in the past 5-6 years that I can remember "of the top of my head". Now - if any other dog caused human casualty here , I am sure it would also find it's way into the news. 

There is a HUGE difference between a bite and ripping ones face off - and sorry , nothing will change my mind about that . All breeds have all kinds of owners - even more massive dogs - like Danes and such, I am sure same wackos also own them - but still, I never heard "pack of Danes killing a little boy on the street" :wacko:.... 

Same as some breeds have innate behavior to retrieve, point, gently mouth a bird or swim - some have more aggressive traits and short fuse. Now pair that with jaws that can crush the bones and instinctive "not let go" reflex and "rip and shake" move - and you get a potential of a very dangerous dog 

Roxy babe - I just read your post : ) ! I wish I am not scared of Pits either : ((. I was also bitten numerous times by different breeds of dogs and I have no fear of those breeds - they bit and let go. Pitts supposedly do not let go once they go berserk : ( ???? I really wish that trait is "bred out" of them since so many are killed in shelters - almost none of them gets a chance to get rehomed due to "liability" : (((.


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/848713/two_dogs_kill_74_year_old_woman.html?cat=9


74 year old woman killed by two of her own dogs

breeds: Golden Retriever/lab mix and an Australian Shepherd


It's not always pits.


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

I just read the link - it is horrible of what happened. But circumstances are different - the dogs were not hers (but of her delinquent son who - as the article suggested - could have trained them to be aggressive). Second - there was a dog fight supposedly that she tried to "brake off" and thirdly and the MOST important - she died of blunt force not bites and mauling :rolffleyes:


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

Other dogs bite/hurt/maul but it's rarely mentioned because people just don't care or pass it over as no big deal.

I've been bit several times in the grooming shop and had a lab lunge out of a cage door at me, not once by a pit.

Although i do assume all Schnauzers to be pretty much evil at this point.

I love pit bulls and one of my own dogs was attacked by one but it's that specific dog I dislike not the breed.

It really hurts good dog owners when dog breeds are targeted rather then specific animals. I didn't think i'd have a problem finding a rent house considering I have standard poodles and german shepherds but quite wrong..

i came across several landlords that banned shepherds and two that banned standard poodles. I'll admit i always found standards to be aggressive before owning one and being around them constantly. I had two live next door that would try to take your hand off if you stuck it in the fence, doesn't mean i'm afraid of every standard that walks by.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Aidan said:


> Although i do assume all Schnauzers to be pretty much evil at this point.


That's how I feel about yorkies lol. I hate grooming yorkies.. I have a lot more schnauzers, though naughty, are easier to deal with than a little demon yorkie that is like.. fragile as glass.


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Some of you are going to wake up too late. Breed Specific Legislation does not work, period! You know why Presa Canarios and Cane Corsos became so popular so quickly? Pit bull bans! You ban pits and the scum, who are the problem no one wants to address, move on to the next breed, whether it's a Dobie or a Tosa Inu (a Japanese fighting breed). There was a time that many countries in Europe had pit bull bans. B/c the attacks didn't stop they kept adding breeds to the restricted list. Before long the list included Corgis and Collies. I bet plenty of Corgi and Collie people were all too happy to sit back and watch the pits be banned. Dachshunds are now banned in NYC government housing b/c of aggression. As great as Poodles are, there are aggressive ones out there. They could find themselves on the list as well someday.

I don't see how I'm not supposed to be offended when people support BSl. How is the slaughter of innocent pitbulls is any different than the slaughter of racing greyhounds. Not to mention you are pretty much saying that my dog, who I love dearly and has been a great companion for almost 6 years, should be taken away and PTS or I should have to buy an insurance policy worth more than my home just b/c of his breed. 

On another note, you will not see reports of other breeds killing people b/c the media doesn't want to report it. If it is reported, the breed is often mislabled. The first ever face transplant was performed on a French woman whose Labrador Retriever mauled her. It was originally reported that the dog was a Pit. I looked up the story and if the breed is actually mentioned, it's half way into the story. When the original story was "Pit Bull" it was in the headline. Pit Bull is the buzzword and all the media cares about is scaring people.


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

At my last job there was this killer-pom that only I could bathe/groom... he was so evil but such a tiny cute little thing and once you were done with the bath and groom he was the sweetest dog ever. It was kind of amusing after awhile. He would also be cage aggressive until his owner came to pick him up like he knew he couldn't growl with her around.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Harley_chik said:


> Some of you are going to wake up too late. Breed Specific Legislation does not work, period! You know why Presa Canarios and Cane Corsos became so popular so quickly? Pit bull bans! You ban pits and the scum, who are the problem no one wants to address, move on to the next breed, whether it's a Dobie or a Tosa Inu (a Japanese fighting breed). There was a time that many countries in Europe had pit bull bans. B/c the attacks didn't stop they kept adding breeds to the restricted list. Before long the list included Corgis and Collies. I bet plenty of Corgi and Collie people were all too happy to sit back and watch the pits be banned. Dachshunds are now banned in NYC government housing b/c of aggression. As great as Poodles are, there are aggressive ones out there. They could find themselves on the list as well someday.
> 
> I don't see how I'm not supposed to be offended when people support BSl. How is the slaughter of innocent pitbulls is any different than the slaughter of racing greyhounds. Not to mention you are pretty much saying that my dog, who I love dearly and has been a great companion for almost 6 years, should be taken away and PTS or I should have to buy an insurance policy worth more than my home just b/c of his breed.
> 
> On another note, you will not see reports of other breeds killing people b/c the media doesn't want to report it. If it is reported, the breed is often mislabled. The first ever face transplant was performed on a French woman whose Labrador Retriever mauled her. It was originally reported that the dog was a Pit. I looked up the story and if the breed is actually mentioned, it's half way into the story. When the original story was "Pit Bull" it was in the headline. Pit Bull is the buzzword and all the media cares about is scaring people.



I agree 100%
these types of legislation will NEVER work...the fact that society has put this stamp of HATE on an animal...who only imitates what its seen or done is just awful
pitties may be prone to dog aggression...if not properly handled thats just a fact
BUT all dogs could be prone to dog aggression if not properly trained
I think peoples personal fears get in the way of looking at things logically...

If people stopped and looked at the facts...most of these attacks were done by "pitt mixes"...which means the people saying they're pitt mixes really have no idea what kind of dog it was they're just throwing that out there because when you think of a person "killer" you think *PITTBULL*!!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Keithsomething said:


> I agree 100%
> these types of legislation will NEVER work...the fact that society has put this stamp of HATE on an animal...who only imitates what its seen or done is just awful
> pitties may be prone to dog aggression...if not properly handled thats just a fact
> BUT all dogs could be prone to dog aggression if not properly trained
> ...


I agree and Amen HC ! IN CA this BSL is happening Dawn capp has been working her BUTT off to get other breeds involved every ones reply o it wont happen to my breed. Now that CA has mandatory spay and neuter now the GSD are asking dawn for help ......:rolffleyes: She has been telling these people it will effect a lot of breeds and not just apbt ! here is her website

http://www.chako.org/

Wishpoo I suggest you read this book I just love it , I wish you could come down to so cal so you can meet jasmine 

http://www.amazon.com/Dogs-Bite-Bal...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260981786&sr=1-1


I think we should BAN horses since they have killed more people than any dogs ! who is with me ? lmao jk


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

artsycourtneysue said:


> Boxers are generally very loving! They are misunderstood usually because of their look, but are very good familydogs. Pitts however, are a different matter. I have tried to be open minded, as I love all dogs and firmly believe that the owner does MAKE the dog....but, I think that Pitts have a slightly higher chance of being agressive than other dogs. They can be perfectly sweet dogs,* BUT have a much shorter fuse than other dogs*, and while i don't want to generalize, IMHO, every pitt I have known, whose owner swears it is a lovely, sweet dog, has growled at myself, my little sister(only 5 years old at the time) or one of my other family members. I think that they can definitely be very good dogs and very loving a loyal, *BUT they are definitely more prone to dog aggression and they have a much higher chance of BECOMING aggressive, often with not much to provoke them.*
> I agree, that while they should not be banned all together, they do tend to draw a certain type of owner that one should be suspicous of. Due to their aggressive behavior, some people can own them for the wrong reasons and that's when things get bad.




Sorry but that is the most incorrect statement. I have now raised two kids from birth and now just turning 5 yrs (boys might I add) and the only dogs in my house that have NEVER growled, got upset or even gave a dirty look was my pitbulls (at one point we had 3 females). I have to watch my standard poodle and rat terrier way closer then my pitbull. She has showed me almost 8 yrs of complete trust and wonderful consistant behavior around my kids and other kids. My other pit and jamstaff did the same for the 3 years we owned them. All of the pits/amstaffs were with us before my kids so they hadnt grown up with kids either. That breed has a high tollerance to pain and are actually GREAT with kids. The only complain my 5 yr old has of our Pit bull is that her tail hurts when he gets wacked by it. lol I dont believe in leaving dogs and kids unsupervised and I will never will because dogs are dogs...however I trust my pitbull more then any other breed around my kids. 

My family was really nervous about me owning and having children with pit bulls also. They had the same opinion most ant-bully breed people have. Now my mom, dad, grandparents and mother-n-law understand what wonderful dogs pit bulls can be in a responsible home. It really is the scum bags that are ruining the breed. When the laws have completely eliminated pit bulls they will be move on to rotties and dobes. 

Also, Ive never been around a pit bull that has got aggressive with a person. We did dog show's for almost 5 years with strictly pit bulls and amstaffs....thats never happened to me or my husband and we had been around hundreds of pits in that time frame. 

If you've been growled at from every pit you've encountered, I certainly would approach them anymore. You must be giving off a really bad vibe or something. That just seems crazy to me since Ive been around so many with no issues.


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## artsycourtneysue (Jul 21, 2009)

SECRETO said:


> Sorry but that is the most incorrect statement. I have now raised two kids from birth and now just turning 5 yrs (boys might I add) and the only dogs in my house that have NEVER growled, got upset or even gave a dirty look was my pitbulls (at one point we had 3 females). I have to watch my standard poodle and rat terrier way closer then my pitbull. She has showed me almost 8 yrs of complete trust and wonderful consistant behavior around my kids and other kids. My other pit and jamstaff did the same for the 3 years we owned them. All of the pits/amstaffs were with us before my kids so they hadnt grown up with kids either. That breed has a high tollerance to pain and are actually GREAT with kids. The only complain my 5 yr old has of our Pit bull is that her tail hurts when he gets wacked by it. lol I dont believe in leaving dogs and kids unsupervised and I will never will because dogs are dogs...however I trust my pitbull more then any other breed around my kids.
> 
> My family was really nervous about me owning and having children with pit bulls also. They had the same opinion most ant-bully breed people have. Now my mom, dad, grandparents and mother-n-law understand what wonderful dogs pit bulls can be in a responsible home. It really is the scum bags that are ruining the breed. When the laws have completely eliminated pit bulls they will be move on to rotties and dobes.
> 
> ...


Hmm...I'm sorry you think it is an incorrect statement, but it is really just my opinion. I have known 3 or 4 people who have owned pit bulls and every one of them swore that they were the best, most loyal dogs, and then eventually had issues with growling or showing aggression. Again, these are just MY own experiences. I am very aware that not every pit is aggressive and of course if you are a good, responsible dog owner, then you probably can raise a nice loving pit- no argument there.

My point was that, in the wrong hands, I FEEL that a pit has a higher chance of becoming aggressive than other breeds, and when they DO become aggressive, like many others have said here, they have a very high chance of hurting/killing someone. 

As for me giving off bad vibes- that was unnecessary to add. I am not going around "approaching" pitbulls lol.... The barn that I use to ride at, when I was 12-18 years old used to have 4 pits roaming around, who belonged to the owner. They loved the owner and were his beloved pets, but growled at kids all the time, and would run up from afar to people and THEN growl, unprovoked. 

My vibes are just fine thank you.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

Just thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in here as I own a Pit Bull. She was a rescue and I have had her for 4 years and not once has she displayed any aggressiveness towards humans or other dogs un-provoked.

She has however been attacked by two dogs on two different occasion, with the other dog as the instigator. After I broke the dogs up the one who was hurt was the dog who started it, not Cici. The two dogs who started the fights were put down. The one dog was a medium Mix and the other was a Chow mix. Now do I trust her around other dogs? Absolutely. Cats? With out a second thought. Kids? She is the biggest baby around kids and just loves them.

Also to the person who had the bad experience: was the dog even a Pit Bull?

The term "Pit Bull" is thrown around quite a bit and a lot of dogs labeled as such are in fact not.

I honestly believe its 95% how the dog was raised/treated/trained. You can make any dog mean/attack and all dogs can bite and kill.

Case in point, the dogs I have frosted and placed in homes have been well socialized companions and out of about 200 dogs I have only had a handful returned to me. Now my cousins who also foster dogs get 1 out of every 5 returned to them. Why? Its because my fosters live with me are trained in basic obedience, socialized with kids, cats and other dogs. My cousins keep theirs in kennels/runs and the only interaction they have is at feeding time and when they take pictures once a month.

I attached a picture. 
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f57/beicerbo/100_0198.jpg

The Black and White dog is my Cici, the little one is Betty (they are best buds) and the other one is Clover.


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Cici is a doll!


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Harley_chik said:


> Cici is a doll!


I agree. She does look like an [email protected]


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## Birdie (Jun 28, 2009)

Harley_chik said:


> Some of you are going to wake up too late. Breed Specific Legislation does not work, period! You know why Presa Canarios and Cane Corsos became so popular so quickly? Pit bull bans! You ban pits and the scum, who are the problem no one wants to address, move on to the next breed, whether it's a Dobie or a Tosa Inu (a Japanese fighting breed). There was a time that many countries in Europe had pit bull bans. B/c the attacks didn't stop they kept adding breeds to the restricted list. Before long the list included Corgis and Collies. I bet plenty of Corgi and Collie people were all too happy to sit back and watch the pits be banned. Dachshunds are now banned in NYC government housing b/c of aggression. As great as Poodles are, there are aggressive ones out there. They could find themselves on the list as well someday.
> 
> I don't see how I'm not supposed to be offended when people support BSl. How is the slaughter of innocent pitbulls is any different than the slaughter of racing greyhounds. Not to mention you are pretty much saying that my dog, who I love dearly and has been a great companion for almost 6 years, should be taken away and PTS or I should have to buy an insurance policy worth more than my home just b/c of his breed.
> 
> On another note, you will not see reports of other breeds killing people b/c the media doesn't want to report it. If it is reported, the breed is often mislabled. The first ever face transplant was performed on a French woman whose Labrador Retriever mauled her. It was originally reported that the dog was a Pit. I looked up the story and if the breed is actually mentioned, it's half way into the story. When the original story was "Pit Bull" it was in the headline. Pit Bull is the buzzword and all the media cares about is scaring people.



THANK you! I was typing up almost the exact same thing this morning but I had to leave for school so I didn't get to post it. xD I agree 100% with what you and PP said... "pit bulls" and rotties and dobes, etc are all labeled as these awful aggressive dogs, and so they are assumed to be the only ones who bite. Like others have said, almost all bite reports (that I've seen) completely mislabel the dog and call it a pit when it's like... an Airedale just to bring up ratings from another "pit bull" attack. 

What bugs me about BSL is exactly what you mentioned- nobody seems to think it can happen to "their breed". "Ohh pit bulls? Fine, ban them! Those dogs are awful! Great danes? Those are BIG and scary! Obviously we should ban them just in case they randomly maul someone. Chihuahuas? Well I guess they do seem to be kinda mean little dogs. Golden retrievers? I thought that was a family dog? They don't bite! Poodles? Wait WHAT??" 

The list goes on and on, BSL can get so out of hand. Blaming an entire breed for the actions of irresponsible owners is just backwards. Eventually all breeds will get banned because people will just not take care of THAT breed instead of THIS breed. :rolffleyes:

I don't own a pitbull, and I probably won't (I don't think I'd be a good fit for one, really) but I will fight to the death to defend them. They are wonderful dogs, and it's just wrong to assume the worst of a dog simply because of the shape of his nose. So I'm not biased b/c I own a pit or they are my favorite breed, but BSL is wrong no matter what dog you put it on.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

I'm not often proud of North Dakota or Bismarck animal laws/ordinances... We're a rural/farming state and animals just don't mean the same thing to a lot of our population... And the entire population of our state is far less than some good size cities in the rest of the country!!

When I worked at the humane society, Bismarck had a breed specific ordinance banning Amstaffs, APBTs, Bull Terriers (and maybe a couple of others - it's hard to remember and I actually had to pull out the printed ordinance every time someone from in town wanted to adopt a "questionable" breed.) The really, really, really weird thing is that the ordinance included unregistered purebreds of these breeds AND mix breeds which included any of the listed breeds (which I was never able to figure out how they could PROVE a certain dog was a mix of anything specific...) registered purebreds of the banned breeds were allowed to live in town (WTF??? Seriously??? So that piece of paper renders the dog non-dangerous????)

OK... so that was then... NOW, Bismarck no longer has any breed specific laws, they have a "dangerous dog ordinance"... I haven't researched the whole thing, but it seems more fair than an ordinance which targets specific breeds.

Some day I hope that North Dakota catches up in their animal rights laws... I'm NOT an extremist, but our animal laws are sadly lacking...


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## artsycourtneysue (Jul 21, 2009)

Purple Poodle said:


> Just thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in here as I own a Pit Bull. She was a rescue and I have had her for 4 years and not once has she displayed any aggressiveness towards humans or other dogs un-provoked.
> 
> She has however been attacked by two dogs on two different occasion, with the other dog as the instigator. After I broke the dogs up the one who was hurt was the dog who started it, not Cici. The two dogs who started the fights were put down. The one dog was a medium Mix and the other was a Chow mix. Now do I trust her around other dogs? Absolutely. Cats? With out a second thought. Kids? She is the biggest baby around kids and just loves them.
> 
> ...


AWee They are all too cute!


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Purple Poodle said:


> Just thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in here as I own a Pit Bull. She was a rescue and I have had her for 4 years and not once has she displayed any aggressiveness towards humans or other dogs un-provoked.
> 
> She has however been attacked by two dogs on two different occasion, with the other dog as the instigator. After I broke the dogs up the one who was hurt was the dog who started it, not Cici. The two dogs who started the fights were put down. The one dog was a medium Mix and the other was a Chow mix. Now do I trust her around other dogs? Absolutely. Cats? With out a second thought. Kids? She is the biggest baby around kids and just loves them.
> 
> ...


I hope i did not make it sound like all apbt are dog aggressive because that is not true jasmine is so sweet she loves everyone. We rescued her from are local shelter also. 

I also agree with you any dog can be trained to bite. I know a lady got SCHIII on her standard poodle. I think there are 2 standard poodles train for SCH III. I know SCH is a sport but its a step to training a dog to protect.


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

You know I caught this and wanted to say something about it. GSDs and Dobermans aren't for the average pet owner. The two breeds mentioned as being more "aggressive" are a breed that takes a very firm well knowledgable pack leader. You let a GSD get over on you (and it is my understanding that they will try) and you are going to end up with an aggressive dog on your hands. I joined Leerburg message board a few years ago because the owner of the board is a dog trainer that I agree with. Well, I read a lot about how to handle the GSD because that's what he owns and trains. I think in the wrong hands many breeds can end up being aggressive because you have people that do not understand what the breed was originally bred for and many people want to humanize their dogs. We love our dogs, our dogs don't love us. Dogs do no feel this emotion love but we want them to so many treat them like children and not like dogs. I adore my Harry but I know that he's a dog and his part in our lives is protector and companion. He enjoys this role and I don't try to humanize him and make our connection more than what it is. It's okay for me to love him and him to just feel respect and devotion.

As far as the pits, I don't own one but in my tour of the humane society I saw plenty and I felt so bad. One was the cutest thing and she/he was in a run with 2 black labs. The labs were barking their heads off and acting aggressive rushing the fence while the pit (probably amstaff) just stood there with it's head down wanting someone to rescue it. I think it's the breeders that ruin this breed just like with any other breed. The goal should be to put something into legislation about that particular breed since it's known to be used for fighting, where you have to pass a test and be a "registered" breeder and then be limited to certain number of litters per year. It's unfortunate that there can't be enough people to shut these lousey breeders down that are breeding these fighting pits. When that gets into lines you are going to see more aggression because that's what they are breeding to get. I don't blame the dog as a breed, I blame the idiots that breed for a particular trait in the dog.


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## artsycourtneysue (Jul 21, 2009)

I agree..I did not mean to say that ALL pits ARE aggressive either....I just think that they are a breed that need to be respected a little bit more than others.

KPoos- That was a well-written post. I agree that maybe it's the bad breeders out there contributing to the problem. 

Now that I think of it, most of the pits that I have met, at the dog park or otherwise, who were trained poorly/allowed to lunge at other dogs/wore big chains/spike collars to look aggressive were owned by people who proudly stated that they got their dog from a breeder. AND it seemed like they liked to feed in to the aggressive rep in order to have a "tough" dog.....

A lot of the rescue pits and the ones at the shelter often seem just misunderstood.

It's almost like a neverending cycle- I said that pits have a higher tendency for aggression- but it also could be that, since they have this rep... people you want aggressive dogs buy them just to fight or make them aggressive...


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

well said Kspoo. GSD was my first breed I loved. I own on for 10 years , she was the greatest ! You have to have FIRM handling with breeds like this. This is why AKC show breeders have literaly bred al of the good qualities of a GSD out. A show AKC gsd and a Working GSD are not he same hence why a lot of people do not own and breed such dogs. 

There are so many BYB of pit bull type dogs its not even funny sadly most people believe this dog to be a pit bull


















These are american bullys 

http://abkcdogs.org/


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

There are many breeds that have a higher tendency towards aggression and were originally bred for that aggressive behavior in order to protect and defend. Like the bull breeds for example. They were all bred for some aggressive purpose but the Boston terrier for example has become so far away from it's original dog that it's just a sweet loving house pet now. 

I personally think that you can breed any temperament trait you want into a breed of dogs. You just keep culling the ones that don't present the way you want and breed the ones that do. Temperaments are passed on genetically to the offspring so if you want aggression keep breeding the most aggressive dogs into your breeding program. Even the breeders that breed for fighting pits have puppies that aren't what they want and on a special I watched, they took them out and shot them. It's awful, the people are to blame because the dogs aren't picking specific traits to breed and they aren't asking to be put in a pit to fight each other to the death either.


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## 814 (Jul 3, 2009)

I only read the first post.

First of all I understand how you feel. My little poodle Zack was attacked by a Pit mix at the dog park when he was a puppy.

Second of all, don't let 1 Pit Bull ruin it all for you.

I was so anti pit after Zack got attacked it wasn't funny. Guess what I ended up working in an occupation for awhile where I had to meet and work with several pits. All were wonderful dogs. And my adopted dog, I normally would never admit this, but we have our suspicious that she may have a pit breed in her. And she is the best dog ever. After realizing that and working with some of these wonderful dogs. Guess what, my next dog. Most likely going to be a Pit mix from the local shelter. (though I will get the dog as a puppy, 98 percent of the dog that come into our shelter are mixed with Pit)

I have to say I have never met a better breed than the American Pit Bull Terrier. I never would have thought I would have become the advocate of the breed I am today. Because that 1 dog could have killed Zack.

But I was so naive that I almost let that 1 experience ruin for me a great purpose and well even ruin for me meeting some great canine friends. Yes there are bad apples out there but you know there are more good than bad.

Do I believe its all in the training, no. Do I believe its all genetics, No I do not.

I believe its a mix of nature and nurture. If you have born with a bad disposition of any breed and he ends up in bad hands, you are going to have a bad dog. 

Put that same dog with another family that cares for it and loves it, the dog could be pretty decent but you may still have problems.

One thing you need to realize is Pit Bulls are not human aggressive, they Are however Dog Aggressive, and sadly its something that can't be bred out of them.

I will tell you though and please don't take any offense to this. I have been a poodle owner for over 20 years. I have only been around Pit Bulls for 2 years. 

If you put me in an Alley with a Pit Bull on one side and a Poodle or even a chihuahua or a Lab on the other. If the poodle (Chihuahua or lab) was growling and the pit bull was growling, I'd say depending on the dogs actions, I would probably take my chances with the Pit Bull. Because I have known less pit bulls to attack or bite a human, than poodles (Chihuahuas or labs.....for example)

Again don't take offense, I know this is a poodle forum, and remember Poodles are my breed of choice.

Yes poodles are my breed of choice and Its terrible for me to say that I know, but that is just been my experience. I have known a lot of poodles and a lot pit bulls. Every breed has their good dogs as well as a few bad apples.

What I am saying is don't let this one incident sway you away from the breed. 

This is a very hard subject for me because again I have a wonderful little poodle and a wonderful Terrier mix.

Please don't let this one incident ruin it for you. Go to the shelter and meet some of these wondeful Pits and Pit mixes needing a home. Go meet with a reputable American Pit Bull Terrier or American Staffordshire Terrier breeder and spend time getting to know their dogs.

I have never known a breed more willing to please a human, more obedient to a human than the American Pit Bull Terrier.


I am sorry you went through this, I went through the same hell you did. I was scared of many different dogs for a long time after the attack on my Poodle. But instead of being scared, I faced that fear. I had to, my job required that. and now I have gotten to know how wonderful these dogs can be.

I hope you will try to do the same.

I feel it takes a certain type of owner to own a Pit bull, and most of the time these dogs fall into the wrong hands. And that is when problems arise.

The pit bull mix that attacked my poodle. The owner was drunk. He let his dog that he knew was dog aggressive into the 15lb and under fence at the dog park and encouraged is aggressive behavior. (The man lost his dog, and was fined heavily. And several owners dogs were injured badly they sued him. My dog escaped with just a scratch, my husband pulled him away as the dog got to him)

See bad owner = Bad dog.

All I am saying.


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## artsycourtneysue (Jul 21, 2009)

Well said Kpoos and PoodlesRforever! I am so sorry about your poodle Zach- what a horrible experience....

I agree with everything said in those posts and just looking at your pix made me google breeders and see what a variety of pits there were...one of the top hits was this breeder

http://www.xtremebullypitbulls.com/

Look at those dogs!!! They say that temperment is most important but then they say they don't breed dogs that don't look good lol....breeding for large muscley steriod dogs!


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## 814 (Jul 3, 2009)

artsycourtneysue said:


> I agree..I did not mean to say that ALL pits ARE aggressive either....I just think that they are a breed that need to be respected a little bit more than others.
> 
> KPoos- That was a well-written post. I agree that maybe it's the bad breeders out there contributing to the problem.
> 
> ...


That is the truth right there. I can't tell you how many people get this dog because they are a tough looking dog. They want to look tough so they get a tough looking dog.

I can't tell you how many people have come into the shelter, wanting a pit bull because they want a tough dog that can fight and defend itself and then. We turn those people away real quick. ( A lot of the times the people that come in are young males between 18 and 25, because they want a dog that looks tough)

I can't tell you for as many good pits I have met. I can't tell you how many sorry looking, stressed out, anxious pits I have seen with a spiked collar, on a leash, with an owner that yells at it, kicks it, and encourages it to be aggressive.

Its starts out with a very fearful dog and that leads to aggression. These people that do this, almost all the time have bought the dog from a breeder (probably not reputable).

We get some of these dogs, those same people bring them in because they can't handle them anymore, yet they made them that way. And they don't seem to know any better.

And would you believe that those same people, go out a few weeks later most of the time and buy another pit puppy. That one is going to be just as screwed up as the next.

In our state if you surrender a dog to a shelter you have to sign an agreement that you won't adopt another animal for 5 years, but that doesn't do anything about the people surrendering and buying.

I've seen so many pits that started out as good dogs and ended up in the wrong hands. 

But the best thing about a Pit, they are one of the most resilient dogs out there, and many can be rehabilitated. (but we do take extra precautions with those ones...and we try not to place them in homes with young children and other pets. I mean they were abused and they may percieve the roughness of a young child as abuse.)

I have never seen a breed of dog that could be rehabilitated so easily, and I feel that has to do with their eagerness to please their master. I mean they can be subborn bull headed dogs, but deep down they are pleasers.


Sorry I did not mean to get up on my soapbox. Again its a subject close to my heart


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## Cdnjennga (Jul 30, 2009)

Flake said:


> Dogs are pack animals - would a stray be less likely to attack if I have two in my hands? Would it be fairer on my dog, who gets walked nearly daily for an hour anyway, when another child came along? What issues does a second dog help, what does it hinder? Or am I being selfish? We have a fully fenced yard, an even bigger fully fenced area to run in right next door, and can afford the food and rego costs etc. We probably can't afford to insure another animal though.
> 
> Any thoughts, ideas and opinions appreciated, while I try and 'nut out' my current dog situation.


I'm very sorry for what sounds like a terrifying experience. The only "good" thing is that you all came out of it relatively unscathed, at least physically.

IMO, you should only get a second dog if you truly feel you want one. Not for security when walking and not for a companion for your dog or anything else like that. The reality is that with a bigger pack you could actually be more of a target for a stray then less. More dogs also means an escalation of the issue most of the time as they will generally act as a pack and it can be more difficult for you as an owner to break up than one.

Now having said that, two dogs can be wonderful. Our family has had anywhere between 1 and 3 dogs over the last 20 years. We find 3 to be too many, but 1 or 2 is just perfect. The work from 1 to 2 doesn't really increase that much. And if the two dogs are bonded then it means lots of pleasure from the interactions between them.

Anyway, this is kind of rambling, but I guess only you can know if you want a second dog. I would just say make sure you're basing it on what you want and what you're comfortable with and not for any external factors.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

artsycourtneysue said:


> Well said Kpoos and PoodlesRforever! I am so sorry about your poodle Zach- what a horrible experience....
> 
> I agree with everything said in those posts and just looking at your pix made me google breeders and see what a variety of pits there were...one of the top hits was this breeder
> 
> ...


Those dogs looks very out of proportion ! There is no AKC guideline for the pitts is there? This website says something about breeding for the Standard? What standard? My siter has a Pitt. Loves him but she cannot take him anywhere as he is "Dog Agressive " She has had him at every training class. Sorry I will never be convinced that these dogs are "Safe" We have one across the street and he is horrid.. So in my small world there are two that are both awful...


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## 814 (Jul 3, 2009)

Flake said:


> Dogs are pack animals - would a stray be less likely to attack if I have two in my hands?
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## 814 (Jul 3, 2009)

bigredpoodle said:


> Those dogs looks very out of proportion ! There is no AKC guideline for the pitts is there? This website says something about breeding for the Standard? What standard? My siter has a Pitt. Loves him but she cannot take him anywhere as he is "Dog Agressive " She has had him at every training class. Sorry I will never be convinced that these dogs are "Safe" We have one across the street and he is horrid.. So in my small world there are two that are both awful...


Pitts are not a breed, pit bull is not a breed.

The AKC recognizes the American Staffordshire Terrier and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. If your American Pit Bull Terrier is UKC papered, you can dual register your American Pit Bull Terrier as an American Staffordshire Terrier. (They are basically the same dog)

The UKC recognizes the American Pit bull Terrier.

Here is some information about the American Pit Bull Terrier:

http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/Breeds/AmericanPitBullTerrierRevisedNovember12008






Here is AKC info on American Staffordshire Terrier:

http://www.akc.org/breeds/american_staffordshire_terrier/


Let me see if I can find some photos of well bred pits for you


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

artsycourtneysue said:


> http://www.xtremebullypitbulls.com/



Those are not pit bull those are american bullies this is the problem people don't even know what a real apbt looks like lol


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

PoodlesRforever said:


> Pitts are not a breed, pit bull is not a breed.
> 
> The AKC recognizes the American Staffordshire Terrier and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. If your American Pit Bull Terrier is UKC papered, you can dual register your American Pit Bull Terrier as an American Staffordshire Terrier. (They are basically the same dog)
> 
> ...


There are many types of apbt 

AKC= amstaffs ,and staffy bulls
UKC= POS ( pit or staff mixes) some UKC breeders do have Pure apbt but is rare

ADBA = game bred these dogs are the working type of apbt just because it says game bred does not mean they are fought FYI. 


http://www.caragankennel.com/

She breeds pure UKC apbt they have no amstaff blood in them She has them Dual registered with ADBA and her dogs are CH in either ADBA or UKC.


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

PoodlesRforever said:


> Pitts are not a breed, pit bull is not a breed.
> 
> The AKC recognizes the American Staffordshire Terrier and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. If your American Pit Bull Terrier is UKC papered, you can dual register your American Pit Bull Terrier as an American Staffordshire Terrier. (They are basically the same dog)
> 
> ...


Coming from dog shows I am familiar with the american Staffordshire terrier and it looks nothing like the Pitties I have seen But if what you are saying is true they are one and the same ? 

Thanks I will enjoy looking at those ..


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## 814 (Jul 3, 2009)

bigredpoodle said:


> Those dogs looks very out of proportion ! There is no AKC guideline for the pitts is there? This website says something about breeding for the Standard? What standard? My siter has a Pitt. Loves him but she cannot take him anywhere as he is "Dog Agressive " She has had him at every training class. Sorry I will never be convinced that these dogs are "Safe" We have one across the street and he is horrid.. So in my small world there are two that are both awful...



Big Red Poodles...okay so you have met 2 that are both awful. Okay. That is 2 out of how many Pit Bulls there are in the world?

Now this link should show you some well bred pits:

(This should give you some info too)

http://www.apbtconformation.com/

Honestly I don't know much about this kennel but the dogs look good. But I am iffy about any kennel that breeds more than one breed of dog. But a source gave me this link

http://home1.gte.net/redhotkennels/


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## 814 (Jul 3, 2009)

[/IMG]


bigredpoodle said:


> Coming from dog shows I am familiar with the american Staffordshire terrier and it looks nothing like the Pitties I have seen But if what you are saying is true they are one and the same ?
> 
> Thanks I will enjoy looking at those ..



They are. There are slight differences but they pretty much the same dog. Its just one is not recognized by the AKC.

This one looks pretty good but the dog is still young:











This one looks decent but again I am no expert











This guy looks okay, not the best I've seen











A pit bull should not look like this:


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## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

Thanks for the links ...


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

PoodlesRforever said:


> They are. There are slight differences but they pretty much the same dog. Its just one is not recognized by the AKC.


AKC = http://epicureamstaffs.tripod.com/boys.htm

UKC = http://www.caragankennel.com/

UKC/AKC= http://www.bluprintkennels.com/

ADBA = http://www.fearlesskennels.com/Stud_s.html

AMerican Bully= http://www.theeliteedge.com/ http://www.ruckuskennels.com/



See the difference ?


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## 814 (Jul 3, 2009)

Shouldn't look like this either:











Absolutely not:


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

PoodlesRforever said:


> Shouldn't look like this either:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yes all three of these dogs are AMERICAN BULLIES they have there own kennel club now.


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## 814 (Jul 3, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> AKC = http://epicureamstaffs.tripod.com/boys.htm
> 
> UKC = http://www.caragankennel.com/
> 
> ...


One of those links, featured a stud or future stud and it mentioned Razors edge, that is not a well bred pit or from what I understand they aren't. There has been a lot of talk about how those are not well bred, also never get something called a Gator Pit either. That is a Back Yard Breeder term and they are usually not well bred either. I am not 100 percent sure about those terms, but that is what a good friend of mine who owns American Staffordshire Terriers was telling me the other day


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

PoodlesRforever said:


> One of those links, featured a stud or future stud and it mentioned Razors edge, that is not a well bred pit or from what I understand they aren't. There has been a lot of talk about how those are not well bred, also never get something called a Gator Pit either. That is a Back Yard Breeder term and they are usually not well bred either


THEY ARE AMERICAN BULLIES !!!!! lol i said this like 5 times already:fish:
they have there own registry 

http://www.abkcdogs.org/


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## 814 (Jul 3, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> THEY ARE AMERICAN BULLIES !!!!! lol i said this like 5 times already:fish:
> they have there own registry
> 
> http://www.abkcdogs.org/



They may have their own registry but that doesn't mean they are well bred. The contenental kennel club is a registry, well you could register a goat on there and pass it off as a dog. Its a bogus registry.

American Bullies in my book and many other APBT peoples books are not a real breed, and are a poor example of what the public thinks an APBT should be

Most people today don't even know what a real APBT or Amstaff is or is supposed to look like these days


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

PoodlesRforever said:


> They may have their own registry but that doesn't mean they are well bred. The contenental kennel club is a registry, well you could register a goat on there and pass it off as a dog. Its a bogus registry.
> 
> American Bullies in my book and many other APBT peoples books are not a real breed, and are a poor example of what the public thinks an APBT should be


O i agree they are HORRIBLEY bred ! I been with apbt for over 10 years I know the types and bloodlines. I have been to these bully expos and its a joke. My point is please call them what they are and not a apbt because they are now their own breed. 

ALL of the american bully breeders do not breed for anything but looks and money ! NONE of them health test Ruckus kennels is the only ONE I know who does but look at her many RIP under her dogs name. Many of these breeders are doing 10 plus litters a year and are charging 5k for pups. Since the economy has went down many have lowered their prices but kennels like razor edge and gotti still charge 5k and up 

These dogs have heart problems, joint and hip problems, they also have breathing problems and this is why a lot of them die. Heat stroke has killed many american bullies in CA. A LOT suffer from dwarfism 

I do not like american bullies at all but I am happy they are making them a new breed. they have shows and other activities they do with these dogs. They even came up with a breed standard. Every breed starts some where lol


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## 814 (Jul 3, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> O i agree they are HORRIBLEY bred ! I been with apbt for over 10 years I know the types and bloodlines. I have been to these bully expos and its a joke. My point is please call them what they are and not a apbt because they are now their own breed.
> 
> ALL of the american bully breeders do not breed for anything but looks and money ! NONE of them health test Ruckus kennels is the only ONE I know who does but look at her many RIP under her dogs name. Many of these breeders are doing 10 plus litters a year and are charging 5k for pups. Since the economy has went down many have lowered their prices but kennels like razor edge and gotti still charge 5k and up
> 
> ...


Okay I didn't know that is what you were getting at. But hey if they are considered a breed by people now maybe it will take some of the heat off of the Amstaff and other pit bull breeds that are being mistaken as them. Its sad though, it seems the general public has no idea what a True APBT or AmStaff is these days.

Did you know recently there was a "Pit Bull" attack in our neighborhood. Well the "pit bull" it turned out was a purebred AKC Labrador Retriever. Its so funny. A bunch of kids told the newspaper it was a pit bull that attacked there friend because it had a broad chest and a wide head and it was mean. I mean sure they were kids but its funny, no one checks these things out first. Its an assumption these days. If the dog is big, acts aggressively, has a wide head or broad chest, its a pit bull.


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

Doesn't surprise me at all. There are many many labs at the humane society here and when you walk by their cages they bark like they will take your head off.


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## taxtell (Sep 17, 2009)

I love the Razor's Edge line dogs, I have to admit.

A very dear friend of mine breeds, and her dogs are amazing, sweet and gentle.

http://pandemoniumpits.webs.com/

/sneaks back out of thread


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

taxtell said:


> I love the Razor's Edge line dogs, I have to admit.
> 
> A very dear friend of mine breeds, and her dogs are amazing, sweet and gentle.
> 
> ...



I do not like Razor's Edge at all...I like the sleeker look.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Locket said:


> I do not like Razor's Edge at all...I like the sleeker look.


There are some amstaff breeders with razor edge line that look good but 99% do not. Dave wilson changed his bloodline in a HUGE way. 

there are not too many amstaffs or ukc that are nice looking coming out of that line IMO. sadly the razor edge line for american bullies are the best looking ones IMO lol the faces actually look cute.


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

Oh dear, I'm so sorry. Thank goodness for your neighbor. As I said in the other pitt thread, I am also on the side to very slowly, assertively and quickly get ourselves as far away as possible. One was wandering my street yesterday and I was about to get the mail. I swear that garage door couldn't close fast enough. My neighbors think this one is friendly but I don't care, it can kill my children so I'm not going near it. Plus it's owners are unsavory enough that I wouldn't trust their training no matter the dog, but especially not one with those jaws. 

Thank goodness you and your doggie didn't get too harmed! Can you call the police on these people?


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

This is what a amstaff should resemble in my opinion. There arent huge and over done.... but they have defined muscle (which is natural for this breed). Head and body to be porportioned and in the 40-50 lb range so they really are a medium size dog....even though you mainly see backyard bred huge mutts in my opinion that people call pit bulls. The last comment was probably uncalled for but its annoying knowing what the breed is supposed to resemble and almost never seeing one in public. 

This breed has been completely ruined IMO. There just arent enough people that understand the breed to over come what the scum bag society has caused to happen. These dogs are primarly feared by the better half of society to be vicious kid killers because any scum bag can make a dog a bad one. Of course though, if its wasnt a pit that attacked, its not news to be heard. Its sad that any dog breed should have to go through what the APBT or Amstaff goes through...its just a innocent dog.

http://www.castlerockamstaffs.com/castlerock.html

http://www.bluebullevard.com/AlpineFalls/females.asp

http://benmarkennels.tripod.com/benmar1.htm

And I love these Parastone dogs from Europe. There are only a few here and they are BEAUTIFUL well rounded dogs. 

http://parastones.nl/asten/ourdogs/boogie.htm


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## taxtell (Sep 17, 2009)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, clearly quite a few people like the Razor's Edge line. To each his or her own, as they say.


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

Secreto there's a dog that looks just like the dogs you posted at the humane society. He was the dog that had the two black labs with him and they were barking their heads off while he just stood and hung his head looking at us. I hope he gets adopted he was so cute.


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

SECRETO said:


> http://www.castlerockamstaffs.com/castlerock.html


Their girl Maddy is SOOO gorgeous!
http://www.vacavalleyakitas.com/Maddy.html


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Locket said:


> Their girl Maddy is SOOO gorgeous!
> http://www.vacavalleyakitas.com/Maddy.html


Oh yes she is gorgeous! Dayna has done a great job with her breeding program and her dogs have great temperments. This is what the top winning amstaffs in AKC look like. Her male Junior and our Cherry was our very first breeding and only breeding. Back then Junior was the #1 amstaff in the country. She only bred junior to select bitches so we were honored that she loved our Cherry. 

Anyhow, I agree that everyone has there own opinions about what a good line is in any breed. But when you get closer to what the breed standard is in breeds like this, most of the scum bags dont like a proper looking amstaff or pitbull. I personally think the over-done blood lines attract more of the undesireable croud to there dogs. Thats just my opinion though.


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## 814 (Jul 3, 2009)

SECRETO said:


> These dogs are primarly feared by the better half of society to be vicious kid killers because any scum bag can make a dog a bad one. Of course though, if its wasnt a pit that attacked, its not news to be heard. Its sad that any dog breed should have to go through what the APBT or Amstaff goes through...its just a innocent dog.


I agree with this.

Today we were down dropping off food and toys at our local humane society and there were about 8 dogs there. 4 of them went mad when you walked by their cage and started attacking the door, and growling. I don't know how they passed a temperment test to be adopted. Those 4 dogs were 2 hound mixes, a corgi mix, and a Rat Terrier. Three of the dogs were puppies. And in the very very back where not many people go to look, was this beautiful 2 year old American Pit Bull Terrier mix. She was quiet, she has been there for several months now. She is very very sweet and the only reason she was turned over is she didn't get along with the family cat (which they had longer, well obviously pits and cats are not a good combination) But out of all the dogs there, she really had the most stable temperment of the group. And she was very friendly. 

The sad thing is as great of a dog as she is, not many people have come to even look at her, because the stigma of her breed. and what a shame because she is going to make someone a great pet one day


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

I wish I could have more dogs. I'd go and adopt that Amstaff at our humane society since no one probably will adopt him. Until my backyard is fixed I cannot handle more than what I've got.


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## 814 (Jul 3, 2009)

I would have taken Roxie (pit mix) today, but being that I live in an apartment I can't. We can't have pits here in our complex but if we could, she would have come home with me, no question.

Once I have my house and my daughter is older, if we come across the right one, then I hope we can give one a home. Especially one like Roxie


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## Flake (Oct 18, 2009)

Purple Poodle said:


> Just thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in here as I own a Pit Bull. She was a rescue and I have had her for 4 years and not once has she displayed any aggressiveness towards humans or other dogs un-provoked.
> 
> She has however been attacked by two dogs on two different occasion, with the other dog as the instigator. After I broke the dogs up the one who was hurt was the dog who started it, not Cici. The two dogs who started the fights were put down. The one dog was a medium Mix and the other was a Chow mix. Now do I trust her around other dogs? Absolutely. Cats? With out a second thought. Kids? She is the biggest baby around kids and just loves them.
> 
> ...


Yes. The dog was a pit bull. As I said. And the owner of the dog, the vet, and the dog control officer. 

I'm starting to wish I never mentioned the attack. I'm not out to make them look bad, but none the less, My dog and I were randomly attacked, by a pittbull, while we were walking around the block. 

For those who commented and genuinely answered my questions, thank you. We have decided we will be getting a second poodle, a mini as well, but not for another 12 months. Currently we are working with a dog trainer to regain confidence with other dogs, as I don't won't my pup to pick up on my fear forever more.

I will continue to be nervous and untrusting of pitbulls however, purely from personal experience. And for those who said its upbringing, this dog has a reputation of being a runaway, but also a sweetheart. He just didn't like my dog for some odd reason. I understand that can happen of two dogs of any breeds, and why a dog should ALWAYS be on a lead in public.


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> *There are so many BYB of pit bull type dogs* its not even funny sadly most people believe this dog to be a pit bull
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They kind of look like pot belly pigs ...no offence to anyone, they are still dogs, and still cute...just sayin' 

Any way, Roxy I think the statement you made (that I bolded) is why they have a bad rap. Poor breeding, and the fact that any dog with a wide skull(even if its a mix) will be called a pit-bull in the news, many people couldnt pick a pit out of a crowd. "Pit-Bull" is a TYPE of dog, a blanket term for dogs including APBT and other bully breeds that were used for fighting other dogs. 

The "Pit-Bull" was the golden retriever of the early 20th century, and were specifically bred to NOT bite humans, dogs that did were culled. 


The problems arise because more people will say that the mutt down the road "has pit in it" if it shows aggression. More people report large dog bites, even if it is just a nip. 

How many times were you told you were doing something wrong(teasing, bothering) when a family member's dog bit you ? (if it happened) 
I personally have an aunt who euthanised a sheltie because it stole a cookie or cracker from my cousin, and nipped her finger in the process. My cousin would relentlessly taunt this dog with food, and IMO didnt get what she deserved.

at work I am more leery of herding breeds and toy breeds than pits, mastiffs,rotties,ect. Toy breeds are often treated like children or toys, and herding breeds are usually owned by people who really don't stimulate the dog enough, or give it a job. 


On the flipside, how many of the dogs that bite people or. God forbid, kill them, are taken care of properly?, well socialized? 

I have friend who's cousin's face was torn off by a GSD. This dog was known to show aggression to male humans, was night blind, and kept on a log chain. 
THIS dog was not euthanised, the kid required tons of plastic surgery, and still doesnt look right. 


In closing, sadly, there has been a movement toward people with a certain mentality owning and breeding pit type breeds. People who use the dogs as status symbols, not as pets. They keep a high energy, high drive dog on a log chain, or on collars like the ones that Aidan posted. They live vicariously through their dogs, they aren't tough as they would like to be, so their dogs do the work for them. These dogs dont show, do performance, usually arent even trained or let inside.  

Im for banning irresponsible ownership, not banning breeds.


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## Sparkle&Spunk (Jan 26, 2010)

We LOVE having a second poodle now! Just got her 2 months ago its wonderful!! 
Go for it, but do it for the 'right' reasons.


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## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

Those dogs look like Olde English Bull Dogges (as opposed to English bull dogs) to me, not pit bulls. I thought American bull dogs were taller, kind of like boxers, but with a slightly longer snout.


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