# Is it important that breeders show their dogs?



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

To me, it's really important, because it means that the breeder is dedicated to improving the breed, not only in looks, but in health and temperament. The most important thing, though, _IMHO_ is finding an ethical breeder who raises their puppies in the home with the family and doesn't breed the parents until they are mature and pass all health testing. The smaller the breeder, the better, IMHO.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I think it is important that breeders are involved in dog sports. It is an indication that they are sincerely interested in improving the breed they work with. I don't remember just now where I saw it, but someone posted an article about why you should not be looking for "just a pet" or something to that effect. If you search you should find it and also a piece that compares the qualities of good breeders compared to other kinds of people who breed.

The dams of both my poodles don't have conformation titles but their sires do and for both of them, both parents have numerous champions in their pedigrees.


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## Lori G (Sep 19, 2014)

I'm not looking to show, compete, or breed. Over the last couple of years I've learned a lot from this forum and studying the websites of quality breeders who compete, especially in confirmation. While I'm not at all an expert but I can really see the physical differences between a top breeder and a breeder who doesn't compete in confirmation. Especially the squareness of body and facial structure. While I'm not a poodle snob, I've come to really love the look of a well-bred poodle. I want to see the breed remain true, and improve! That is why, to answer your question, IMHO it is important to buy through reputable breeders who show and compete. It "keeps them accountable " for what they produce.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

I really want to see my breeder showing the dogs, at least in something. Though I am now getting into conformation showing so I require a breeder that has show quality dogs.
That shows me that they are putting time and effort into their dogs and their breeding program, so they really know their dogs and are constantly trying to make improvements not just breeding to breed or make money.


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## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

lily cd re said:


> I don't remember just now where I saw it, but someone posted an article about why you should not be looking for "just a pet" or something to that effect.


Is this what you're talking about? "I don't want a show dog; I just want a pet." - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums The link in the doberman forum post to the original blog post doesn't work, but it's reprinted in the Doberman forum post. 

I personally would not buy from someone who did not bother to show their dogs at all, and I prefer to buy from someone who puts titles at both ends. If a person is not showing or otherwise competing, then why are they breeding? I personally want my poodle to look the way a poodle is supposed to look and act the way a poodle is supposed to act. I think you're much more likely to get that from someone who shows. There are many things to look for in a good breeder, like pieces in a puzzle, and showing/competing is one important piece among many.


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

I think it's very important for a breeder to show their dogs, it's confirmation to them and others that they are on the right track. I like to see performance sports too, but conformation is a must in my opinion. Just because I may be looking for a pet, doesn't mean I don't want a good representation of the breed in looks and temperament. I believe the difference between a show, and pet quality puppy from a good breeder, is not plainly noticeable to most people. I think the best breeders put out great dogs, and pretty darn close great dogs, and nothing less.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

oshagcj914 that is the piece I was thinking about. Thanks for posting the link to its reprint here. It says everything that needs to be said on this subject. IMO


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

I read that article, thank you. I wasn't thinking of going that route, however.
I was referring more to breeders, who are members of clubs and may have shown in the past but for whatever reason, are either no longer showing, or, breeding dogs that they are not or have not shown.
For example, in two cases, I spoke to breeders who were breeding females, who hadn't been shown because, "the dogs didn't like showing." I don't know if that is an excuse but they claimed that those dogs produced sound puppies with good temperaments, nonetheless. I have run into many breeders who are breeding, particularly females, who don't have titles. Some of these breeders have even been to Westminster.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Mish17 said:


> I read that article, thank you. I wasn't thinking of going that route, however.
> I was referring more to breeders, who are members of clubs and may have shown in the past but for whatever reason, are either no longer showing, or, breeding dogs that they are not or have not shown.
> For example, in two cases, I spoke to breeders who were breeding females, who hadn't been shown because, "the dogs didn't like showing." I don't know if that is an excuse but they claimed that those dogs produced sound puppies with good temperaments, nonetheless. I have run into many breeders who are breeding, particularly females, who don't have titles. Some of these breeders have even been to Westminster.


I would have no problem buying from such a breeder. There is a wonderful breeder of Maltese who used to show but doesn't anymore because of the politics. She has proven show quality lines, though, and she knows how to breed quality. I have also heard of dogs who are show quality but don't like the ring. I feel that they are just as worthy of breeding.


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

Breeders who show and title their dogs along with necessary health testing is very important to me. This is what sets us apart from the BYB and puppy mills. 

I just bred my first litter this summer. I bred to produce my next show puppies. Most ethical breeders breed for the intent to produce their next show puppies. Generally we don't sell our prospects unless it's to other experienced show people and it's under an entirely different contract then companion puppies. 
By showing our dogs, we are proving we are dedicated to producing healthy sound puppies and for the betterment of the breed. Along with showing, we health test our dogs to lower the chances of spreading genetic diseases down to the next generation. Puppy buyers who buy a puppy from us are getting puppies who were carefully planned for and benefit from all the same steps and bloodlines as the 1-2 puppies we end up keeping because we feel they stand slightly above the rest in the litter. We aren't expecting you to show them, we want them to go to amazing loving forever homes, and in return we are able to give you the history of the lineage your new puppy comes because we studied them and carefully chose them when planning our breeding.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

Hans was chosen primarily for his temperament and working ability, but he came from a breeder that shows in conformation and both parents earned their AKC championships. We wanted a puppy from parents that were successful in the confirmation ring for a few reasons. One, if the breeder is showing I feel like it demonstrates a commitment to producing quality dogs. Two, I think for the most part good conformation gives a dog a reasonable chance of athleticism and long term soundness (I come from horses, and that's how it is with horses). Three, I enjoy having a dog that is pretty to look at and moves well...that might be a bit superficial but it is what it is. I would buy another puppy from a breeder that shows their in conformation again in a heartbeat. It was 100% worth it in my opinion.


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## aasteapots (Oct 6, 2013)

zooeysmom said:


> I would have no problem buying from such a breeder. There is a wonderful breeder of Maltese who used to show but doesn't anymore because of the politics. She has proven show quality lines, though, and she knows how to breed quality. I have also heard of dogs who are show quality but don't like the ring. I feel that they are just as worthy of breeding.


I agree with this statement. The breeder that my Spoos are from has not shown in a long while as she refuses to indulge in the politics of it all. That does not negate that fact that she has beautiful well tempered Spoos many of which go on to become working/service dogs. She is active in donating to guiding eyes and a high percentage of her dogs pass on to becoming seeing eye dogs which is one of the most difficult jobs for dogs in the service dog world to perform. Also all of her dogs go thru and pass their CGC testing. She is what I would consider a hobby breeder but I wouldn't consider her a back yard breeder. It helps to ask the right questions. I know that many people are turned off by web sites and so forth but sometimes a good old fashioned phone call can make a big difference.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

aasteapots said:


> I agree with this statement. The breeder that my Spoos are from has not shown in a long while as she refuses to indulge in the politics of it all. That does not negate that fact that she has beautiful well tempered Spoos many of which go on to become working/service dogs. She is active in donating to guiding eyes and a high percentage of her dogs pass on to becoming seeing eye dogs which is one of the most difficult jobs for dogs in the service dog world to perform. Also all of her dogs go thru and pass their CGC testing. She is what I would consider a hobby breeder but I wouldn't consider her a back yard breeder. It helps to ask the right questions. I know that many people are turned off by web sites and so forth but sometimes a good old fashioned phone call can make a big difference.


And your breeder showed when she was younger as I recall so she knows how to produce a sound dog. I also think that the high success rate her dogs have had with guiding eyes says volumes about temperament.


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## sidewinder (Feb 3, 2016)

Every breeder is an individual, it's important to remember that. Some people are just as dedicated to producing good dogs even if they aren't showing thir offspring. However, it's very hard to keep from becoming "kennel blind" if you don't compare your dogs to others in the show ring. Puppy buyers need to become discerning and learn what makes a good dog so they can judge on their own. My personal opinion is that it is not ethical to breed if you are not showing. 

There are many factors that might prevent a bitch from achieving a title. It's much more difficult to finish a bitch than a dog. For one thing, it's possible to campaign a male much longer than a female. 

I have 2 very nice girls (Scotties) that are pointed but don't have titles. I always handled my own dogs. It's not easy to compete against the pros, and typically takes an owner/handler longer to finish a dog than it would a pro. My older bitch, Connie, I wasn't able to show as often as I wanted due to some family stuff. You really need to breed a bitch before the age of 5 (3 is better) for the first time, for her health. Connie loved dog shows, but I really needed to breed her before she finished her championship due to her age.

Connie's younger 3/4 sister, Charlie, HATES dog shows. She is the best thing I ever bred, but she sees absolutely no point in walking around in circles with a bunch of (in her opinion inferior) other dogs. If a dog won't show itself off, no matter how structurally good it is, it will never win. Charlie's not spooky she just thinks it's stupid and would rather be doing something fun. She would trudge around the ring with a poopy look on her face and her tail at half mast. "I'm doing it but I'm not liking it and you can't make me!" I never bred Charlie because by that time, I'd decided I no longer wanted to show. The politics had done me in after 20 years.

So, to respond to OP's question: I would definitely consider buying a puppy from a litter whose mother is not titled (Mackey's mother is not titled), but I would definitely look to the sire of the litter to be titled. And both parents completely health tested, of course. I think it's probably best that the breeder be actively showing, but if they aren't, they should be breeding to a male from an actively showing program.




Mish17 said:


> I read that article, thank you. I wasn't thinking of going that route, however.
> I was referring more to breeders, who are members of clubs and may have shown in the past but for whatever reason, are either no longer showing, or, breeding dogs that they are not or have not shown.
> For example, in two cases, I spoke to breeders who were breeding females, who hadn't been shown because, "the dogs didn't like showing." I don't know if that is an excuse but they claimed that those dogs produced sound puppies with good temperaments, nonetheless. I have run into many breeders who are breeding, particularly females, who don't have titles. Some of these breeders have even been to Westminster.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I went to a show breeder because I don't trust my eyes when it comes to puppies, especially not with a new breed. I wanted a puppy that would grow up to look like the breed standard and have all of the health testing. A former neighbor of ours had a white Standard that looked nothing like WestU's Lola or Buck. I bet she was cute as a puppy, though.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

Health testing is the most important thing to me, but as others have said, the outside validation that comes from testing/showing/competing helps overcome any bias the breeder might have. Whether that means they're producing outstanding herding dogs, hunting dogs, therapy or service dogs, obedience champions, whatever - they should be doing _something_ to test that their lines are doing what they think they're doing.

Conformation showing is the standard because that's entirely what conformation is supposed to be - a test for evaluating breeding stock. I don't think it accomplishes what it's supposed to in all cases, but it's more than just a beauty contest. So there are some cases where you'll want a dog from a breeder who's doing something else (working Border Collie breeders, for example, usually avoid conformation showing entirely and just do herding things), but for most pet owners conformation is a pretty good standard to go by.


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## Mish17 (Jun 30, 2016)

Given that I've taken so much time and done a lot of research on breeders and Poodles and, the fact that standard Poodles are at least $2000, at least from what I've been quoted by breeders, and what I read here on the forum, I decided that I would like both parents to have either conformation titles or some kind of accomplishments. 
After telling one of the breeders I contacted that I wanted to wait for another litter, with parents like that, she must have gotten annoyed because I never heard back from her. Maybe she was insulted because she felt that she knew the quality of her dogs. It just seemed like she had excuses for every dog she told me about , not being shown. This one doesn't like showing, that one hasn't shown yet because of a family conflict, etc. I could be missing out on a great puppy but to me, the excuses were a red flag. The sad part is that, she seemed like a conscientious breeder in other respects.


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## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

Mish17 said:


> Given that I've taken so much time and done a lot of research on breeders and Poodles and, the fact that standard Poodles are at least $2000, at least from what I've been quoted by breeders, and what I read here on the forum, I decided that I would like both parents to have either conformation titles or some kind of accomplishments.
> After telling one of the breeders I contacted that I wanted to wait for another litter, with parents like that, she must have gotten annoyed because I never heard back from her. Maybe she was insulted because she felt that she knew the quality of her dogs. It just seemed like she had excuses for every dog she told me about , not being shown. This one doesn't like showing, that one hasn't shown yet because of a family conflict, etc. I could be missing out on a great puppy but to me, the excuses were a red flag. The sad part is that, she seemed like a conscientious breeder in other respects.


That's disappointing....but just remember that there are lots of great breeders out there. Don't settle for one that you aren't 100% sure of. Plus if you need some breeder referrals to check out, there are a ton on this forum to look into, and I'm sure if you have an area of the country in mind, plenty of people will be able to point you in the right direction.


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