# Have you ever had a SPOO too difficult to clip?



## Hey_j (Apr 27, 2011)

Okay, I guess I might be panicking early into the game, but I have the feeling the 12 wk old pup we brought home was never clipped (face only) until we were coming to see her. I scissored her a little a week or so ago, but not the face or top knot. 

Tonight I tried to do a touch up around her ears, under the leather to allow more air flow and SHE DID NOT like it AT ALL! Every time I snipped she'd whirl her head around. Then, later, I tried to do her sides and some on the legs and again, she'd whirl around and squirm so much I could not hold on to her! WHAT HAVE I GOTTEN MYSELF INTO??

Is there ever a SPOO that will never tolerate being clipped?:afraid::argh: Her topknot is so long it's hanging down over her eyes and I know that's not good but it will be IMPOSSIBLE to trim the way things are going! It's VERY SCARY to try to do it with the pointy hair shears I have and her bucking everytime I approach her! 

I WILL make an appt. with our local Petsmart (till I can find someone who might be more professional--gots some research to do in that area), but what if she has the same problems with her??

janice


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## Siskojan (Mar 13, 2011)

I think it's worth your while to find a pro right off the bat. Someone who is experienced and will not spoil the puppy by not knowing what exactly they are doing. That almost happened to us. We were offered a puppy special at a pet store. She claimed to know her poodles but had only done toys. Sisko was an absolute monster with her and we despaired. What the heck were we going to do with this feral poodle? DH took him back once a week for a little trim here or there. After one trip we had to go to the vet to get his claw cauterized. That was her last chance with him. Finally I took him to a "fancy" poodle groomer when he was 5 or 6 months old. She asked what I wanted done and I said "just do the best you can but shave his face if you can." She looked at me like I was a loony, 3 hours later she called and I went to pick up our immaculate Sisko who I was assured had been an exemplary pup. It cost $90. It was worth every penny. He went there several times and then I found someone I trusted much closer to home and who cost $10 less.


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## lavillerose (Feb 16, 2011)

This is totally normal, but yes, it depends on if and how much grooming they got at the very young stage, before the first fear period at 8-10 weeks. They go through several of these!

I've had a Spoo puppy scream bloody murder and pitch a huge fit for having her face shaved the first time since the breeder did it, but I did it anyway. You have to just bite the bullet and do it for them to get used to it. But there are ways to get them used to it. Scissoring doesn't hurt, but it's a weird noise, and puppies want to know what that is and if it might hurt them, so just open and close the scissors near her often. Even if you're just sitting around, make that snipping noise with the scissors, and let her get used to the sound. If she behaves nervously, don't do or say anything, just keep making the scissor noise until she calms down, then treat and praise. Gradually, you can get closer to her with the shears. 

Same thing with clippers, holding them or anything else that makes the same noise and vibration (like an electric toothbrush) near her. Eventually you can rub the side of it on her body so she can feel that vibration. She's going to struggle and make a fuss. You need to speak in a LOW, CALM (high pitched "It's okay!" sounds like distress to dogs, and if mommy is stressed, puppy will be stressed) voice to reassure her. Eventually, she will realize she is not being hurt. Again, once she calms, then she gets praise.

Teach your puppy to sit calmly while you hold onto her face. When grooming, you have to hold onto the face, so it's very important they learn to allow you to hold them by the nose. You don't have to hold tightly, simply hold the muzzle in your hand and praise your puppy the second she sits quietly and allows you to do it. Eventually you can get her used to you turning her head, tipping her nose up and down, like you must when shaving the face. 

Having a professional do it the first several times is helpful. We are used to squirmy puppies! Training them to deal with it is part of our job! My own 8-month mini is still a little shy about having clippers and scissors near her ears, so believe me, it's a constant learn process.

Also, I got my start at Petsmart. I can say that the quality of grooming there is the same as anywhere else, *experience counts for a lot*. Some Petsmarts have great groomers with years behind them in the biz, but others don't, so just be sure to shop around. You want someone who is used to starting poodles to work on your pup.


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## Hey_j (Apr 27, 2011)

lavillerose, and Janet thank you SO MUCH for your reassurances. 

I had determined that I should click the scissors a lot around her to get her use to that noise. I guess those who have watched programs(one daughter) about people getting over their phobias see that any fear can be overcome by exposure and overexposure to the thing feared, experiencing that the thing or experience will not really be harmful afterall.

I guess my 'fear' is her actually doing harm to herself in the process. I will definitely do what you've suggested, lavillerose --thank you, again, so much.

Thank you, also, for the reassurance about Petsmart groomers. I watched a gal last week do a sheltie! She clipped him down completely, leaving a switch at the end of the tail. The owner has allergies and I was VERY impressed with her. She was very reassuring to me, that I could learn how to groom our dog myself and get a job with Petsmart in the process if I wanted to by being trained through them. I've seriously thought about that, BUT, hubby is retired and prefers I be his companion 24/7 which is alright with me, too! But--she was very nice and I'd be very comfortable letting her have a go at our 'Callie'! I just thought I'd see if there was anyone folks around here felt REALLY good about! 

But, I certainly have no problem going to Petsmart if I can watch the process and be sure she's the one doing it until I see someone else working on a Poodle there that is as experienced. I don't want to go through what you did, Janet so I'll keep looking for someone I know others have had a good experience with, too, in case the gal at Petsmart isn't what I'd hoped she'd be in terms of experience, expertise and having a calm manner with her!

I feel so much better--thank you both for *the time *you took to allay my 'fears'!


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## Malorymoo (May 1, 2011)

Bravo used to be TERRIBLE for clips or any kind of grooming. Even baths were horrid. He got over it really quickly. From my understanding, poodles are big time drama queens. 

It helps that I have been training dogs for almost 13 years. 

Go into a groom with a calm, anxiety free, matter of fact attitude. Don't take any nonsense, just....DO, if you will. I go in right away and just start working. That way my dog understands that he can't have a panic attack and there's nothing for him to be silly about. If you are calm, the more your dog learns to trust you, the better the grooming will become.

Bravo still likes to try and jerk his paws away from me during grooming. All I do is every time I feel him starting to jerk, I raise my hand to "block" him NEVER hit him, and I will let out a stern "AH!" He knows that means I'm displeased with him squirming, and he usually will calm right down after that. If he squirms, I will hold on to him firmly but not harshly until he relaxes for 5 seconds. Then I have not taught him that squirming gets him free. I have taught him that when he's still it's over quicker.

I ALWAYS treat him when he's doing well and after every groom.


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## Hey_j (Apr 27, 2011)

Thank you, Malory--the* good* thing is, she loves her baths. She gets in the shower with me at times
and never hesitates! So, at least that part is okay and will hopefully remain to be the case!!

I'm feeling much better hearing from your experiences. I'm so glad I found this forum and you nice folks! 
But then--I expect SPOO people to be nice! Am I wrong in that assumption? 
I know, you can find a bad apple in *any* batch--but, so far, all I've been served up (here) is good ole 'Apple Pie'!!!:cheers2::eating:

BTW: Welcome to the forum, Malory!! I'm kinda new around here, myself!!


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

Do you have a grooming noose? Do you have a helper? 

I would suggest sending to a pro- many do 'puppy packages' but your pup might be too old. get them used to being bathed dried nails etc. several times so that they learn it's ok. 

but on the whole you just gotta be FIRM get it done- a grooming noose is your best friend as it acts like another set of hands. It took bella about 5-8 'trims' before she'd stop whirling around every time the scissors' snipped. but with the noose and one hand on her hind end i could keep her in place decently . SO be firm get it done then reward


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

You also DON'T have to do everything at one time. A daily session of doing nothing but manipulation work is great. Treat when behaving well , a firm no or leave it or behave works when not behaving well or some just ignore the bad & praise the good. You have to figure what works. Just take your time, don't overdue the experience & you might want to put a little cotton in the ears if scissoring around the ears to deaden the sound.

I have a rescue Spoo & he is fantastic for grooming except his ears. Since he was picked off the streets he was head shy but for us only his ears are "sensitive". So, EVERY day I manipulate an ear to some extent. I shave the inside of ears BUT then don't do anything else. I know he will scratch at his ears & whip them around alot to bloody the tips. I shave the outside of his ears on a different day about 2 wks apart from the inside. Almost daily I pluck a little of his ear hair but further out where it is easy to get. The other day he had to have the insides plucked & the yuck that had gathered & he did very well BUT then he went into shaking his head & he started to bloody the tips again, so I had to put a sock on his head & then lay with him for about 20min to get him to stop his head shake & stop the bleeding. But this is him & it is a work in progress. So, even 4 months of work he has gotten so much better, doesn't whimper when I go to touch his ears.


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## Hey_j (Apr 27, 2011)

Thank you, NeVar for suggesting the noose. I've also looked at a grooming table on Amazon, with an arm. 
I'm also considering going to Petsmart for their puppy package for $15. I think it included face shaved and 
toe nails trimmed.

3dogs, thank you, too, for your ideas. I already worked with her on holding her face and trimming her topknot 
above her eyes with p-nut butter (crunchy even) as a reward! She did MUCH better today. I also snipped 
the scissors around her head and near her ears before I started on the topknot!!

I'm confused about the ears bleeding. Am I understanding that shaking their heads make their ears bleed? 
I'm guessing the leathers not the inner ears. I never heard of such before!!:afraid: That sounds unnerving!!

Thank you both--lots to consider!!!

janice


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

For some reason it is the tips that bleed. When we got him he was already clipped short & he had been a mess off the streets. He had scabs at the very tips of his ears that took about 1 month to get the tips not to have any scabs. Daily working on his ears & positive training he allows me to mess with his ears but it is a learning curve with a rescue. For some reason when he starts to shake his head when I do his ears the tips bleed. Now he has been good for shaving the outside of the ear leather, the inside he ends up scratching & ends up with scabs. I just had to pluck the ear canal & get the dirt out so I did that all at onec & he just started flipping his ears hard & the tips start to bleed. They are o.k. now but again scabby so should take another month to work those scabs off.


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## lavillerose (Feb 16, 2011)

If they are irritated by ear plucking or cleaning, some dogs can shake their head so vigorously that it causes blood vessels to break at the tips of the leather and cause hematomas. Some dogs just have very thin skinned ears and very easily broken blood vessels, and all it takes is a forceful headshake. It's not super common, but not really rare either, with drop-eared dogs like poodles. It's probably not something you need to worry about too much with your puppy (3dogs rescue might have suffered flybites that cause the tips of the ears to be more delicate, possibly?), but it's good to be aware of nonetheless.

Good job working with your pup! It just takes time and patience with all puppies, and like others said, no nonsense. Poodles, especially, are too smart for their own good; if they think for a second they can walk all over Mom by having a tantrum and acting like your killing them, trust me, they will try it again and again! Dogs are Oscar worthy actors sometimes. The key is to teach them ASAP that you don't buy the performance for a minute.


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## Hey_j (Apr 27, 2011)

Oh dear--that's terrible for your dog and you, Lavillerose! 
I definitely will be on the lookout for that if Callie starts the headshaking business. 

Thank you for elaborating for me!!!


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

Hey_j said:


> I'm feeling much better hearing from your experiences. I'm so glad I found this forum and you nice folks!
> But then--I expect SPOO people to be nice! Am I wrong in that assumption?
> I know, you can find a bad apple in *any* batch--but, so far, all I've been served up (here) is good ole 'Apple Pie'!!!:cheers2::eating:
> 
> BTW: Welcome to the forum, Malory!! I'm kinda new around here, myself!!


don't have any suggestions that you haven't been give with regards to grooming problems, but i do want to say that you can expect spoo people to be nice and this forum is great, full of lots of people who are very generous with their knowledge, experience, and support. after all, it really is all about the dogs, isn't it? so we all have something wonderful in common! welcome !!


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## Poodlesrule 1 (Jan 16, 2011)

We've never used an arm or a noose on any of our poodles. My good friend did Rikki's first clip she is an exp poodle groomer and she was firm with him - no nonsense but gave him a couple of breaks off the table and lots of praise. I wish you were in Columbus I have a very good friend that shows poodles and also grooms out of her house. She's very experienced with puppies. We have a groomer here in Middletown that is experienced with poodles she has a spoo.


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

She is a baby, and grooming takes some getting used to, I too would go with a pro for the first few times, with age comes more patience. You have to remember that she has only been hearing sounds for about 10 weeks, and usually not super close to her face. 



I have only groomed 1 standard that WILL NOT tolerate grooming, and really its just shaving face and feet that she will not tolerate....and shes mine....and im a groomer by trade  

I have groomed probably 50 standards in the past 7 years, and Maddie is the only one that has given me trouble. 

I dont think you have gotten in over your head, she will get better with time


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

frostfirestandards said:


> She is a baby, and grooming takes some getting used to, I too would go with a pro for the first few times, with age comes more patience. You have to remember that she has only been hearing sounds for about 10 weeks, and usually not super close to her face.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Glad to hear Im not the only groomer with a difficult dog lOL! Hoolie had never had anything done except his face trimmed right before i got him at 4 mos. He HATES his feet being trimmed. I have tried all my groomer tricks and nothing helps much. Mostly I use lots of praise and treats and one foot at a time. He is ok having his face done thankfully!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Holly is positively wretched about her feet and toenails! I persevere with the feet and we now dremel her nails and that helps some.

Quincy is a licker. While you are doing anything with his feet, he licks, licks, licks. So a friend loaned me her grooming arm. It has been a Godsend. I can put it up high enough that he can not get his speedy tongue anywhere near the blade. 

When we have puppies here, they get their faces, feet and tails clipped at least twice before they leave us. The first time is right by their whelping box in my lap with no drama and gentle, quiet voices used. The second time they are on the table, get a full groom with tummy and bum clipped along with FFT and scissoring, bath and blow out. They are so good and wonderful little troopers. I think it is because their first experience is pleasant.


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## Hey_j (Apr 27, 2011)

Thank you ALL for your very encouraging words! I'm glad I asked my question *here*! 
Jessie's Mom--you're right--this is a good place to be, especially for a newbie SPOO owner!! 

I'm definitely taking her in for a puppy-groom but I have to wait till she gets her rabies vaccination, 
and next week she'll be 20 wks. which was when I had been holding off for. They won't take her if 
she hasn't had it!!

THANK YOU AGAIN--and, 
*:angel:HAPPY *EARLY* MOTHERS' DAY:angel:* 
for all you MOM's with your own kids and SPOOS!!! 
janice:amen:


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## BigRedDog (Mar 2, 2011)

*Puppy not used to grooming.*

When I had my shop we often got puppies in who (unfortunately) were never groomed previously. We never expected to get a *great* result the first time, but we would slowly get the pup used to clipper, nail clipping, ear cleaning, being brushed, the dryer..etc. 
It's a process but after about the third time,(with owner assistance and practice at home) most pups were getting there. 
I never had an owner who wasn't understanding of what we were trying to accomplish, that is a dog who is comfortable and relaxed in the grooming shop.
I have to agree with some of the other posts, it might be easier to find a kindhearted groomer willing to slowly work with your puppy until he/she is used to being groomed. You can then take over if you wish.
:angel:


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