# Puppy woes ~Long



## Rusty (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm far from an expert here, but there's several things in your post that I would consider red flags and reason to visit a vet (if my dog showed these behaviours and my vet tried to tell me there wasn't a problem, I'd go see a new vet for another opinion). I wonder if her mouth is sore (due to the dental problem you mention), or there's some other kind of physical discomfort she's experiencing? Food allergies that make her feel sick as well as itchy (I would stop eating my food if it made me sick all the time)? Some kind of infection? Honestly, to me this doesn't sound like an issue of training or behaviour, it sounds like there's a physical reason behind the behaviour you describe that's making her unhappy and uncomfortable. If it wasn't for the hair loss, itching, lack of appetite, and leaking, I'd normally suggest making sure she has plenty of physical exercise and mental stimulation during the day, but all of those things you mention don't sound especially normal for a 6 month old puppy. I hope you can get to the bottom of the situation soon; it's hard to be both tired and worried about your puppy, especially since puppies are a lot of work even when things are going smoothly.


----------



## marialydia (Nov 23, 2013)

I'm with Rusty...it seems like it's time to bring Mochi to the vet. For one, she ought to be in the middle of a growth spurt. Even if she turns out to be a picky eater, she ought to be gobbling at least some of her food. When she vomits, is it the yellow bile kind, that comes from an empty stomach? 

Secondly, the hair loss is worrisome. Allergies, or maybe anxiety or frustration? Another reason to go to the vet. 

There may also be some other things you can work on. You mention that Mochi gets some walks, and play time. Do you think it's enough? Would stepping that up make her more tired? On the other hand, the puppy bursts do sound absolutely typical.

Another idea: you mentioned that she is always touching you when napping. She may find being in the crate and not touching very stressful. So at the beginning of the night, when she's tired, she'll sleep but then when she wakes she wants to be with you. Can you get her to be used to being in the crate when you are around, so that she can learn to take some pleasurable rest in your presence, but in the crate? You could start with a minute and work up from that. Only let her out when she is quiet. (It sounds like she is learning that whining will get her out of the crate).

Finally, you mentioned that she is getting food at bedtime. I have always stopped food for my dogs (except for the smallest treat) several hours before bed, and the last thing before bed is outside for a piddle. I wonder if trying to get her to eat something, even if it's by hand, two hours or more before bed, could help.

And you need some sleep! Good luck with this and I hope you can rest better soon.


----------



## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Mochi has enough problems that seem to be physical issues you might want to look for a teaching vet hospital where you can find a specialist in bladder problems and digestive issues.

I would have her blood tested for every issue I could think of, including thyroid and cortisol.

Does Mochi sleep a lot during the day? If so, try keeping her awake longer so she is more tired at night--if this is possible.

I hope she starts feeling better soon and you guys get some sleep. It is very hard to cope when you are tired.


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Only a couple of things that I can add to the great advice already given above.
One, as a temporary measure so that everyone can get some sleep, would you consider having her wear panties with a pad, so that she can sleep with you at night? Timi cried every night that she slept in crate, I think it was maybe three weeks before I felt that she was well enough pad trained to sleep with us in bed, hard to say because I was so loopy from lack of sleep.... So, maybe not a solution, but if you want to sleep tonight, that is a way to do it.
Also, I know that there is a specialty hospital closer to you, but it might be worth a trip to the Animal Medical Center to see the Dermatologist there, Mark Macina. Although all of Mochi's issues are not under his domain, I think that the man is brilliant, and if he does not figure out everything that is going on, he will know just the right Vet who can, which IMHO would be a lot better than picking a specialist at random...
If he is booked up for months as he often is, ask to speak to his assistant, who can often squeeze you in sooner.


----------



## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

*Oh my, thank you everyone!*

:hug:

RUSTY - I was thinking the same; that it was probably time to take her to the vet, but it's so stressful thinking of that when we've already spent $1000 just trying to figure out the leaking, which my insurance so far has declined to reimburse, and my husband decided to quit his job a few weeks ago and my income is only from two part-time jobs that together only give me about 13 hours of work each week. :argh: Woah, sorry for unloading - I just so didn't want to need to go back to the vet for anything until we had some more income again. Oh well...

Good news is, we think we can assign some causes to her symptoms that are less scary - like her whining at night and not eating; after I wrote this post, she lost another puppy tooth in the back, and I realized it seems that she is loosing them very slowly. That, along with the fact that I just let her kibble soak in water for a bit and when I put it down, she gobbled it up and asked for more, make me think her nighttime whining was from pain and hunger more than anything else - so teething pain could be the culprit for the nighttime problems and her lack of appetite during the day!

Second, the pollen here has been crazy the past two weeks or so. For example I just swept my sidewalk under our tree out front, and within 30min it was completely covered in tree pollen again. Mochi has been sneezing more lately and her feet are what touch the pollen filled ground most so perhaps she needs more baths or at least paw soaks to get the irritants out of her toes and fur on her legs, which might reduce the chewing/licking?

MARIALYDIA - I think perhaps you are correct too about the hair loss being related to stressful things. She hasn't been eating well for a few weeks really, so lack of nutrition and she's just plain hungry all the time, which must worry her, plus the stress and pain of teething, along with me keeping her locked in her crate all night when she just wants to be comforted (poor thing!) may be combining possibly even with allergies to make her hair fall out. Oh so many possibilities, but all of this certainly seems plausible.

I have been good about not letting her out when she's whining, but it's a fine line. I usually reach my limit as close to 6am as possible, and when I get up I ask her to sit first, then when she's been quietly sitting for at least 5 seconds, I open the door and let her out on to the bed. About the food at bedtime - I thought of that a few weeks ago to try and stop the early middle of the night outings; we picked up her food at 6pm as bedtime was usually midnight, and she only got maybe 6 bites of the special raw bites at bedtime after that. But she still was whining at the 4hour mark every time, and when I took her out she'd still go a little pee, or a little poo but not both like she used to. So she still seemed to need to go or at least could make herself go a bit, but didn't seem to have a real effect on her whining, so I let her keep her food bowl down all night too because I was more concerned with her getting nutrition. When she puked it was the thin yellow liquid usually, but once or twice it was a bit like spit looking (that was a very small amount that time).

Finally, MINIPOO also, we have been trying to tire her out more thinking it would help her sleep better. Instead of going to the dog park once a day for as long as possible (usually 2 hours average) we started going twice a day as we have two different dog parks near by. No change in her sleep patterns or behavior. Yesterday, we decided to walk all the way to the Brooklyn Promenade and back, which is easily over 1 mile and up hill half of the way. She had never been that far before, and had never been to that location before either, so we thought the distance and excitement of a new place would certainly make her tired enough to sleep through the night. We also went at 8:30pm, around the time of her last crazy puppy antics for the night, and got home just after 10pm. She napped on the couch until bedtime, and although we thought she seemed more tired than normal, no luck. She was crying after only 3 hours in her crate, and again from 5am until 6:30am (I had put a pillow over my head in an attempt to get some sleep so I didn't notice it was 6am this time, oops).

TINYPOODLES - as always, thank you for your suggestions! I brought up the panties idea to my husband, but he shot it down saying he'd rather not have her in the bed all night long as he's worried about crushing her accidentally. He is a big guy and has been known not to notice when he rolls over on me and I can't get him off when he's asleep. So until she gets a little bigger she will only get to be in the bed in the morning hours when we're more conscious of her location and there's less chance of her being hurt. I suggested we put one of her bells on the bedroom door knob and show her - hopefully she'd use it in the night instead of going into a corner and peeing like she did once before during the day when we had her upstairs in the spare bedroom while we were doing chores in there and our bedroom.

:grouphug:


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Mine is the same way, and my girls are much smaller than Mochi, but they no how to dodge him, no problem.
Here is another thought - have you tried covering the crate at night with a throw - sometimes that can help them to settle.
And I certainly understand that with money being tight, you don't want to be running to more vets, especially when the symptoms are so mixed, and it is not even clear who to go to...


----------



## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Mochi sound like a very sick poodle. To have all the symptoms you describe and be in her growth spurt she will get sicker still. You need some positive diagnosese from a good vet. Suspect kidney disease.
Eric


----------



## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

I keep thinking about covering her crate more but it's the plastic two-piece crate, so it's already pretty dark inside. I could hang a towel over the crate door, but not so sure as I worry it would freak her out more to suddenly have no visual of the room. I did start closing the bedroom door again after I figured the hall night-light made the room pretty bright, and she seems to settle much faster now when put in the crate either the first time or after her nighttime outing.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, but she doesn't just whine in her crate at night, she's also been frantically scratching at the sides of the crate and the door during the early morning whine-sessions. She never barks though, which she did when she was younger and I used to take that as a cue that she really needed to go out, which seemed to be the truth each time. So no barking, but frantic scratching makes me think she is just desperate to get out of the crate and be with us. She does always bend her body when I take her out for the potty outing as if she's trying to get to the bed. Hmm.:alberteinstein: Fingers crossed that with more food in her belly she can sleep better tonight!


----------



## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

I personally am not a crate fan. I know a lot of people use them and swear by them but it has just not worked for me and my dogs so back down to the barn it goes. My dogs have just seemed so unhappy in it (as pups) that I ended up letting them out so they can either sleep on the bed or down on a dog bed beside our bed. I think Mocha is telling you he is very unhappy in his crate and I would try and figure something else out for him, even if it meant a trial of one night letting him on your bed. It's so obvious that having him whine all night is not the answer for any of you, lack of sleep is no fun!

Also, I am a big fan of raw feeding. It sounds like he may possibly be allergic to something in his food and with kibble you never know what it could be, there are SO many additives. With raw you know exactly what they're getting.....it just could be the answer to some of his problems and is an easy first approach without having to pay enormous vet fees, which still won't necessarily give you an answer.
i wish you luck!!


----------



## marialydia (Nov 23, 2013)

*Eager to hear how it went*

Thanks for the detailed replies...now that Mochi is eating her moistened kibble, eager to hear if with a full tummy she made it through the night without too much drama!


----------



## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

Critterluvr - I wasn't originally a crate fan either, but read so many people's experiences that it seemed like the best option. Mochi did really well for the first few months, so it seemed to be working fine. All these weeks of terrible nights, even now, at bedtime she still hops excitedly and runs to the stairs and up them, into the bedroom and waits impatiently for me to open her crate door and put her bedtime snack inside for her. She eagerly hops in immediately (or before, if the door was already open) and happily eats up her snack while I close the door and turn of the light as I crawl into the bed. But she's just not happy to *stay* in there anymore. I really want to just get rid of the crate too, and have her sleep on a doggy bed of her own or by our feet, but her leaking issue and inability to tell me she needs to go out when not in the crate worry me. Once we all decided to sleep on our couch in the living room, with Mochi sleeping between our legs, and even though this is the same couch where she naps all day long, getting up when she needs to ring the bells on the kitchen door (means she needs to go out), she didn't do this and we ended up with two large pee stains on our couch from that one night. So whenever she is happy and asleep, she pees in her sleep. But unhappy, she lets me know she needs to go out. Sigh.

I was looking online at puppy diapers but don't want to go one more night with the crying so may just make some from an old pair of undies, safety pins, and a sanitary pad for tonight...

As for her food, I feed her Nature's Variety Instinct Puppy kibble with Raw boost (bits of freeze-dried raw), which is grain and soy free and her bedtime crate snack is raw bites from the same brand. She was already eating it for months before these issues started so I'm leaning away from that as a culprit for anything.

Marialydia - No such luck. Even though she had two servings of moistened puppy kibble last night, she cried all night again. I don't think she was quiet for more than 20 minutes at a time and that is pushing it. I couldn't tell as it seemed like non-stop and she was even more frantically scratching and digging to get out of her crate too. I even put a thick black sweater over the door of her crate hoping it would darken the interior and calm her but seemed to have no effect.

It got so bad that I took her downstairs and put her in her playpen while I laid down on the couch a few feet away. She seemed okay for the first 20min but gradually started whining, and then digging to get out again and even barked a bit. I ended up getting her out at 5:30am when I remembered I had to go in to work today and I think I hadn't had any sleep at all. She eventually settled on my legs on the couch and I got a couple hours of sleep.

She's not chewing anything hard these weeks either which was weird at first because she LOVED her bully stick and I used to hear her chewing on it in her crate in the middle of the night sometimes, and she would always chew it on our bed in the mornings if she didn't feel sleepy, but she hasn't touched it in weeks so I know now her back teeth must really be bothering her.

Someone mentioned she would be going through a growth spurt now (at 6mo) so I wonder, can that make her uncomfortable enough to cry all night?

Well, like I said, I'll make up some DYI puppy diapers and we'll see how she does tonight.


----------



## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

ericwd9 said:


> Mochi sound like a very sick poodle. To have all the symptoms you describe and be in her growth spurt she will get sicker still. You need some positive diagnosese from a good vet. Suspect kidney disease.
> Eric


I forgot to reply to this before - we had bloodwork done already and the vet said her "kidney values" were fine so nothing wrong there. :amen:


----------



## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

Yes, I understand about the leaking issues.....I wonder what causes that?

Poor Mochi, if only she could tell you what is wrong!


----------



## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

I am no expert..but I feel like somehow you have re-enforced the sleeping on the bed idea...probably because at 6am, you let her in the bed. So, she knows that if she keeps it up, she will get her way. I woould go back to crate training 101 and no sleeping in the bed.


----------



## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

*UPDATE - some poo & puke descriptions*

Oookaaaay. So, it's been a week and a lot has happened. I had meant to update the day after my last post but got so busy with work I put it off, and then we had a very sick puppy suddenly!

Mochi did a bit better for a night or so, (my memory is very fuzzy now) and I remember when I wanted to make my first update I was going to say how great she had done but I forget now what I had done differently that I thought was the reason.

But then things went back to bad the next night with more whining again and frequently. She had eaten the softened food for a few meals in a row, but then she just stopped completely. She was puking up stomach liquid daily from her empty stomach and apart from tiny treats for normal things like outside potties and tricks during the day and walks, some biscuits while we ate our dinner, and her special raw nuggets at bedtime, she didn't eat anything else. 

Oh, and a vitamin B1 capsule (thiamin). My husband apparently coughed right after taking his vitamin and it flew out of his mouth and he didn't find it (I'm thinking he didn't look for it...) I found out when I saw Mochi playing with a little white piece of plastic on a spot of carpet that looked like flour had been spilled. It appeared she had gotten about half the capsule, so 50mg. After a about 60 seconds of my freaking out at my husband and having a heart attack, we found out it was not too serious for her size and the amount. Phew.:amen:

And then, diarrhea struck. Friday night. During the day her poos had been getting softer but that happens sometimes so I didn't think anything of it. Then during the night I had decided that every time she made the tiniest whine, I would immediately take her outside - hoping this would be like earlier training where if she didn't need to go, I'd bring her straight in and put her to bed in her crate. Hoping she'd get the message that whining only means she goes outside and then back in her crate. Well, I soon realized, after our third trip out (and it was only 1am!) that she had bad diarrhea. All night long, every 30min I took her out, and every single time she had a very bad poo. But she seemed very happy I was taking her out, and did not whine when I put her back in the crate. I just got zero sleep, which was not fun as it was on top of less than 3hours sleep for the previous week (and never more than 6 hours for the last 4 months...) I gave her some pumpkin at dinner time.

Saturday, all day she still had diarrhea only now we started noticing blood.:afraid:

It was weird because it was not already in her poo, it was dripping onto it afterwards while she was still in the position. And she was straining to go all this time. She got pumpkin with her kibble at breakfast, but she only ate the pumpkin. At dinnertime same thing. I told my husband if she still had diarrhea the next day, we were going to call the vet and get her an appt asap. She had a restless night again.

Sunday, I had to be out all day but my husband was given strict instructions to call the vet as soon as they opened at 10am and make an appointment. Which he did but it was for the following day, Monday. She didn't touch her softened kibble all day again and the diarrhea was bad as ever, sometimes just a gel like substance with blood.

So when I got home at dinner time I cracked open a can of soft food for her which she loves, and she scarfed it. I included a spoonful of pumpkin again. At bedtime she got some of her raw nugget treats and she scarfed those too. Sunday night she was still going out hourly, and around 3am while in the kitchen after a potty outing, she puked on the floor three times in a row, and this time it wasn't just stomach liquid, but looked like the canned food with a lot of liquid. I offered her a spoon of pumpkin and she wouldn't touch it. I put some of her raw nuggets in a dish and put in in her crate as normal expecting she would eat them up, so was very surprised to see in the morning that she didn't touch them! I made up her breakfast bowl with a few scoops of canned food and a scoop of pumpkin and she didn't give it a look, just curled up on the couch with me. 

She was curled up on my husbands legs later that morning napping when I opened her bladder support supplements, which she normally jumps up upon hearing, and held a tablet under her nose. No movement, not even an eyelid flicker. I booped her on the nose, three times, nothing. I then felt her chest to check she was breathing and when sure she was live :amen:, pet her head with some pressure and she opened one eye to grumble at me a little. I showed her the tablet, and she just closed her eyes again! Unheard of behavior for our little puppy. :Cry:

Side note: Friday I had ordered a cloth puppy diaper to use with sanitary pads to address the leaking issue which we had thought might be a solution to her unhappiness at night in the crate... The package arrived while I was at the vet with her.

The Vet on Monday - First of all, 5 weeks ago she had weighed in at 9lbs 10oz. Yesterday, she weighed 9lbs 8oz!!! OMG the poor thing has been eating so little for so long (see earlier posts) that she's loosing weight! They decided to do in house bloodwork and an Xray and CBC (can't remember what that was). They took the fecal sample, and gave us some panacur and flagyl to giver her as a precaution in case it was a occurrence of giardia.

I paid $602 and stopped to pick up chicken to boil and some pepcid ac as directed, and took her home. I put on her new diaper and she bounced happily around like nothing in the world was wrong. We gave her the pepcid ac, some rice and chicken with the panacur and flagyl later that day. She happily scarfed the food, and only peed in her diaper once (filled the thing up - it worked great!). At bedtime she hopped happily in her crate, ate her raw snack and went to sleep without a peep. I woke 4 hours later and although I didn't hear her make any noise, figured I should take her out because the diarrhea could not possible be gone already so she must need to go (and she hadn't had a BM since that morning...) so out we went, she peed outside, but no poo, so she got a treat, we went inside and I put the diaper back on and into the crate she went. Quietly, but it did not last. She whined and scratched on and off for the next two hours. 

Thankfully it never got very loud so I think it was again, more of "can't I join you in bed?" rather than "I need to gooo!" I took her out at 5:30am and she wouldn't do anything but sniff so back inside we went. At 6am she still wanted out so in a quiet lull I pulled her out onto the bed. Hubby left at 6:30am because her noisey bully stick chewing was loud, but he came back at 7am because the couch was cold, LOL, then at 8am we all got up for the day.

Today, the day after the expensive trip to the vet, she has not peed in her diaper once, she has indicated when she needs to go out regularly to pee, and she finally had a BM (a big one!) that had a solid shape late this afternoon. She ate her breakfast of chicken, a couple scoops of canned food and a scoop of pumpkin, had her medicines and two more meals of chicken and canned food and medicine. 

The vet called wither bloodwork and fecal results to say everything came back negative, so no idea what was up except maybe the thiamin incidents??? But no giardia... Yay! Only $602 for her to become totally better the next day for no apparent reason. Sigh. Puppy parenthood I guess. :noidea:

Now to find out if her insurance will cover tests and medicines with no diagnosis...


----------



## Rusty (Jun 13, 2012)

Yikes! That sounds like a very scary few days. I hope that the upward turn in Mochi's behaviour and symptoms is a permanent one, and everything continues to get better from here!

One thing that occurs to me based on my experience with my puppy a few years ago, is to ask whether the fecal exam that was done was the basic one (some sort of smear test, I think?) or the more expensive one that looks for DNA markers of different parasites and such (I'm sorry, I'm not an expert on the tests and am not sure on the details)? When we got Begley in 2012, he had really terrible diarrhea (every hour all night long, for DAYS). The first fecal exam (the cheaper, basic one) didn't show anything, but the more expensive fecal exam that was done next tested positive for cryptosporidium. For $600, I'd think that Mochi's fecal exam was probably the most thorough one available, but I thought I'd bring up the question, just because of my past experience.

Thanks for the update!


----------



## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I am very glad she is feeling better and the diaper seems to help you manage her problem.

Two suggestions: don't let her sleep in bed. It will only make crate training harder. Also, with stomach problems I would stop feeding her raw anything. It is just another variable to add to your confusing situation.

I think the homecooking and worming medicine will help her the most.

Here's hoping she continues to improve and gain weight.


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Oh dear, this is going to be another tricky Petplan claim because I don't think that they do not cover parasites, but they would cover the diarrhea. I would get a copy of your Vet's notes and make sure that it clearly states that she did not test positive for any parasites and the meds were just given for coverage. 
FYI, I always keep some flagyl (Metronidazole) in the appropriate dosage in the house for my girls just in case - I find that giving it quickly, like after the second messy stool can cut things off at the pass, and not let it get to the hemorrhagic gastroenteritis that she got to. I get it from my vet, but I hear many people get fishzole over the counter for the dogs, it is the same thing.
Glad that she is feeling better!


----------



## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Glad she is feeling better. I had the same thing a month ago and they never found anything, must have been a stomach bug.


----------



## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

If she's not eating well, she's not going to have enough nutrients to maintain healthy skin and coat. I'm sorry about your budget, ours it tight too, but I am also seeing a lot of red flags, puppies her age shouldn't be leaking or having so many overnight accidents. Could she have a UTI, or Vaginitis? She really needs a good, thorough vet check, maybe by a different vet if you've already seen your regular vet with no success. 

Also, if you can't afford the medical care and treatment at this time, it may be best to surrender her to a rescue. There is no reason to hold on to her without a good medical investigation and let her suffer. The greater love here would be to surrender her to rescue and let them help her out. 
Good luck.


----------



## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

Nature's Variety was a disaster for us when we fed it to our dogs- I had 2 (of 5 dogs at the time) come down with UTIs that wouldn't go away until I switched foods and haven't had a UTI problem in years. It is high protein, which is such a fad right now, but it's also high in phosphorus, which can lead up to kidney and bladder issues. Woiudln't hurt to try her on something different, I have tried TONS, I stopped believing the grain-free, high protein hype and went with Fromm Gold- zero problems with all 4 dogs (and cat!), everyone healthy as can be. Maybe worth a try?

Edit: I should've read the whole thread. I'm hoping she is still improving by now. <3


----------



## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

Hi Shamrockmommy,

Goodness I didn't think I made it sound like we were about to be homeless! Thankfully, we live rent free and my income can cover basic expenses, plus our family are very gracious when we are having a tight month. I would leave my husband (but lets not go into that here) and move back in with my parents before I dropped off Mochi at a rescue! This is the whole reason I got her insurance before I ever got her home. I have faith it will cover most of the costs, and we have some very experienced insurance coaches on here (Looking at you, TinyPoodles!) who I am very thankful for giving me insight on how to make the most of the claims.

Yes she's doing great now. She never had any overnight accidents in her crate, just a couple episodes when we let her sleep on the couch one night. She's eating her kibble dry and asking for more, drinking well, going poo and pee regularly, and bouncing off the walls during her puppy periods again (which had only stopped for barely 24 hours even with the poor eating). She had the leaking problem long before I switched her to Nature's Variety - she had been on a crap kibble from her breeder which she wouldn't eat. Since switching her I've noticed her skin has gotten better actually - no more dandruff-like stuff after baths. 

I agree the poor nutrition was likely the culprit for her hair loss. I think the majority of those weeks where she didn't want to eat were at first due to her teething her molars which would make it very uncomfortable to eat hard food. But then this mystery diarrhea which went away faster than it came just made it worse. She lost her 3rd canine yesterday and I can't see any more puppy molars so I'm thinking we are almost done teething, thankfully! Hunger and pain may have caused most of the late night whining episodes, and then this past weekend the diarrhea which I think was caused by the large amount of Thiamin ingested. 

She hasn't peed in her diaper at all since the first time on Monday! Even last night when I let her stay on the couch with my sleepy husband - he reports she woke him twice and led him to the door to go out!!! Thrilled! Our hypotheses was that she was so comfy sleeping free with us that she could not sense the need to go so did not wake. But now I think the diaper and desire not to wet in it kept her more sensitive to her need to go, and perhaps because she has spent the last three days hopefully holding her muscles to keep from going perhaps she is getting stronger muscles down there?Still noticed some smell and a little discoloration twice so I think she still has a little tiny bit of leaking now and then, or it's due to dripping after just going out. Fingers crossed.

Overall, she's just a puppy with a leaking problem. Certainly going to work through this and not give her up.


----------



## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

Very happy to hear things are going well for her! Glad to hear you are all getting some sleep and that you are very devoted to her <3


----------



## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

BB, you all are not having an easy time of it. I feel for you. You've gone through so much already... I know my head would be spinning. I had issues with my spoo puppy and frequent peeing... She didn't leak but I'm just saying, it was very worrisome. And vet bills are scary! Please, God, let everything start going smooth with this poodle and her mom and dad. Amen. 

pr


----------



## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

I have been thinking about your beautiful Mochi and I want to tell you that I have personally seen two miracles from a change in food. Granted they were skin issues but some people claim that nutrition can be miraculous for other issues. I had one toy dog with lesions that kept getting worse and worse. She licked her feet constantly as well. Her suffering was great. I decided to change her diet and I picked Stella and Chewey's Duck Duck Goose and just by good luck, that worked perfectly for her. I know it is expensive so I want you to know she did not stay on that food and I'm not saying that is THE food for your dog... Another miracle food cure I personally witnessed was of a yellow lab with horrible horrible disfigurement of the skin covering most of the head. It was grotesque  She had been at the vet, blah, blah, blah, this med, that med... I mentioned changing her to a simple novel protein and she actually did it. The dog is perfect today. She put her on a fish kibble. As far as the cost, the Stella and Chewey's Dehydrated Duck Duck Goose, is more expensive than the frozen (but dogs go crazy over the dehydrated) and... it is way cheaper than vet bills. My girl did not even stay on that and later on in her life she went on to eat various other dog foods. So, I had to make my pitch to you because maybe it could help Mochi too. Maybe not, but she would probably love it and you would know in about 3 weeks if you were going in the right direction. As long as her kidneys are definitely ok, I don't see what you would have to loose, just a little bit more $$$  

pr


----------



## Raven's Mom (Mar 18, 2014)

Raven had giardiasis when I got her and after treatment the diarrhea didn't stop so we started suspecting food. The vet said said to change the protein to fish and after several weeks when she had a normal stool I was elated!! 

She is eating Natural Balance fish and sweet potato and so far no loose stools in months. She apparently was reacting to chicken, so no more chicken and no problems. She is also sensitive to rawhide. She LOVES them but the vet suspects the chemicals used in processing so she has not had one of those in ages now. I feel bad for her because she dearly loved them but it is not worth the stress?


----------



## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

I still say a lot of health problems are diet related and I still say the safest and easiest route is to switch to raw and see if it works.
It's not as expensive as you think....my goodness, I've priced some of those popular and trendy kibbles that are out there and they are FAR more expensive than a raw diet.
Start basic, keep to one protein ( ie: chicken ) for a while and see if it has made a difference. It's much easier than you think.
Switching kibbles can get pretty costly and it's hard to pinpoint what is causing the allergic reaction because there are SO many additives. 

I'm not saying kibble shouldn't be fed, I'm just saying in some dogs it can cause a lot of health problems and yes those vet bills can REALLY add up!


----------



## Pella (Oct 7, 2014)

Oh Bonnie, I am so sorry to hear about all this! Just to round the picture out for anyone...I have Mochi's litter mate from the same Crabapple litter born back in December of 2014. Mochi was the smallest puppy by far, and I know the "runt" of the litter is always more prone to health issues! Arlene told me she never needed a bottle as a puppy, she was her "tough cookie" and did so well. But even if she avoided being bottle fed I would guess that she is more likely to have issues in a variety of ways, including her immune system. 

One of the reasons I have strenuously fed Lena probiotics from Day One was because that is a very simple, fairly cost effective way to boost their immune system. Just like with us, their digestive tract is a big part of where their immune system is, so having healthy gut flora is very important. I buy the Forti flora powder and put one packet a day in Lena's dry food. I'm curious if anyone else on here with a Poodle with food sensitivities or gut issues also uses probiotics? One of those things that can seem like a waste of money if you don't understand them, or the cheapest miracle fix going if you've used them and seen a change in your own pet. 

Anyhow, with the issues you describe, regardless of what your vet says, personally I would put her on probiotics stat. I would also double check that you are feeding her a grain free formula, and if you are, I would consider to switching to something that is both beef and poultry free. Food intolerances wreak havoc on everything from their intestinal tract (the puking) to their behavior. In contrast, Lena has thrown up twice...when her silly mommy forgot to feed her sooner than 10am in the morning and she was super hungry.  Luckily once that happens I DO get the message!!

I am so impressed you thought to soak her food! If she's been in enough pain to not eat because of her teeth, that alone would screw up her digestive tract! What a good puppy mom you are to persevere through all of this, and to be a good mommy detective who figured out what her puppy needed. Lena hopes I am so smart...

The woman who runs Poodle Rescue of Vermont recently told me that the Poodles she rescues often have low blood sugar problems and she's the one who recommended rubbing a little honey or corn syrup on their gums if they aren't eating in the morning. That's obviously not going to fix it if Mochi has terrible tooth pain, but is a good trick to know for Poodles in general. 

I would be curious to know if this is crate related stress of an emotional nature, or if it's something physical bothering her and keeping her awake. She might feel more comfortable in a corner of your room in an X-pen with a nice big bed in there for her? Something that restricts her to one area, but isn't as shut in as the crate? Having come from a kennel environment, I knew I never wanted to put Lena in a crate. But at 6 months old I am realizing that for visits to the vets, or if we are ever going to go to doggy events, she needs to be comfortable with it. So we're going to start doing treats in there, meals in there, etc. But i still don't think I will ever expect her to stay in there for the night. 

Lena has slept on the floor as often as in the bed with me because as a puppy she preferred sleeping on the blanket Arlene sent with her. And also because once she peed in my bed, and I don't own a dryer so boy did that make things tough for the night. I think Mochi does absolutely need to learn to self soothe and fall asleep without you there. Different dogs self-soothe in different ways, but finding a tasty food item that is gentle on her digestion and can be frozen in a kong in the freezer may be a good thing to give her at night right when you put her in her crate or her own area. Freezing it makes it last longer. The canned dog food for sensitive stomachs might be a good place to start. Or some canned pumpkin with rice in it. 

Just about everything in your post aside from the loose tooth indicates digestive issues / a need to change food to me. I feel like this is an area where vets can really suck to be honest, and as the "mom" to a terrier poodle mix who needs to be grain free and poultry free and still often has skin issues, I can say we've gone to 7 vets and learned less than we did from internet research and knowledgeable pet store owners. I love love love the Natural Balance Salmon/whitefish with sweet potato formula that also has BOTH prebiotics and probiotics. I fed that to my terrier poo for a LOOONG time without any problems. But he got sick of fish finally after many years and started stealing my foster dog's Zignature lamb grain free formula...so we're using that now. Lena has done well on it, and it is approved for all lifestages, though puppies will need to eat slightly more of it per pound than more mature dogs. 

My terrier also needs frequent baths for his skin, and chews his feet too if he ever gets so much as a hint of chicken. 

But don't worry...with a strict diet things get so much better, and personally I've learned to not always go to the vet. My own experience with my food sensitive dog has been to do some food experiments at home first...review his treats, think about if it's a high pollen time of year (if so I give him a quarter tablet of benadryl every day), and make sure he's happy with his dog food. Being a detective first I've saved many vet bills, and then when I do go in, I have more info to tell the vet. But so often with some detective work on my part, with my terrier I've been able to figure things out at home. 

Sending you positive thoughts and hoping Mochi feels better soon! Fingers crossed this is all something fairly simple to fix and not a more complex issue.

Oh dear, I posted this having just seen the first page of posts...so much of it you are doing already so please ignore most of my post!! SO SCARY that she was SOOO sick!!!! Really glad you had insurance for her, and really glad she's doing so much better! the diaper seems to be making a big difference! Yayy!


----------



## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

*Update*

Thank you everyone for your support and advice!

I've been busy with work again and don't think I can respond to everyone individually, so I'll try to touch base on the points I think have been mentioned since I last posted and update on Mochi's progress.

So her biting/licking at her front feet - I think this must have been seasonal allergies as it seems to have stopped completely for the last week or so, and since the worse of Spring pollen seems to be over, and she's had a couple baths since then, it seems very likely that issue was due to pollen. 

Her refusing to eat - As mentioned she is eating again, but I think she's still a little picky. She has had some days where she won't touch her kibble even though I soaked it first, lately adding a little broth with the water it's soaked in. And since she's on meds from the vet as a precaution (when they thought the diarrhea may be giardia) I've been putting a scoop of pumpkin in too in case her poos become soft again. So to get her more interested I went back to mixing in some soft canned food again and it's worked most times to get her to eat the full bowl. Although yesterday and today she chose to only eat some of her breakfast bowl. I hope she is just not very hungry today because she finished off her dinner bowl pretty late at night yesterday...

Yesterday after she emptied her breakfast bowl, I put some dry kibble in just so she'd have something if she got hungry later, and in the evening she did go and eat all of it in one sitting, and it was dry with no canned! I think she's just being picky now that she knows she can get canned. 

All her food is grain free - basically it's everything free except for the main meat source. I thought at first she may have a chicken allergy since her breeder's food was chicken based and she didn't like it and had diarrhea (but that turned out to be giardia back then). But her puppy kibble now is chicken based and so are some of her treats (also grain free) and she does not have any consistent issues that could be traced to the chicken I think... 

Her leaking - Since we got the diaper, huge improvements BUT until we've gone a whole month, I'm not going to call it a success yet. In the month of May, she had two large leaking incidents. Each of the two incidents were identical; in a single day, actually over the course of only a few hours while she was daytime napping on the couch, she had a large pee/leak which she did not wake up for THREE times! So both days it went something like this: Mochi is asleep next to me on couch and has been for at least 30min. I move my leg or something and it wakes Mochi so she gets up. I see a big wet spot where her rump was! Tell husband and we get it cleaned up as best we can. Mochi is let outside and pees a moderate amount. Back inside, she settles again on the couch and falls asleep in the blanket hammock made by my husband's legs. Maybe 1 hour later he moves to get up disturbing Mochi who walks off his blanket/legs. Large wet spot on blanket and couch! (the second time this happened my husband's pants were soaked too but he had been asleep too LOL!). So she goes outside again and we clean up as best we can. Then she is back on the couch, this time on the arm next to the window and napping. Maybe 20min go by and I feel under her back end and Argh! Small wet spot maybe 2-3 inches in diameter. :argh:

I swear, we have tried figuring out if she was extra tired these times, or under-exercised. If she had any stress or odd things happen those days etc. but for the life of us could not figure anything out. She's done this within half an hour of peeing outside sometimes too. The vet thought one possible reason may be her kidneys are making more urine than her bladder can hold. We already ruled out any physical internal problems through xray/ultrasounds, and her kidneys are healthy according to bloodwork. 

So the diaper. The first night she had the diaper she was put in her crate as normal. She went in without a peep and I heard nothing as reported until around 3am but after taking her out, I put her back in the crate and she did her now routing whimpering with the obvious request to be with us on the bed. I did not let her out, but my husband did leave to sleep on the couch. In the morning she had not wet her diaper. The 2nd night, husband said Mochi gets to sleep in the bed. So she did. She laid down immediately and 6.5 hour later I took her out to pee and she had slightly wet her diaper but peed a huge amount not seen in many months, LOL! The 3rd night, she slept 8 HOURS! When I took her out I checked her diaper and it was 100% dry. Yahoo!:adore: 

So although I really really really had wanted to get her 100% crate trained first, the ultimate goal was to have her sleep with us when she was mature. I guess we're moving up the schedule. Also I am happy to see she tends to sleep by our legs/feet so no worries now about my husband crushing her in the night. :amen:

I never did call back the specialist with a 1 month report as he requested. I felt bad at first, but until I see if my insurance appeal goes through, it's not like we can afford to do anything else, and the diaper seems to be working for now. His theory was that either 1) it was internal and we just couldn't see it on the ultrasound because she is so small or 2) that it is something that will go away with time and hormones as she matures. I am leaning more towards the 2nd theory anyway


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

You will see when she has her first heat - it grows so much, it looks like an entirely different piece of equipment - I bet that does the trick!


----------



## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

I really hope so! We're basically placing all our hopes on her heat fixing the issue. I heard back from her breeder who said her pups usually have their first heat between 6 and 10 months, but because Mochi was so small, she may be on the earlier end of this range...

Oh, here's a picture of her new diaper - it's just a shell and I put a pad inside but it works great. Haven't been able to get a better picture so apologies for the fuzziness.


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

BrooklynBonnie said:


> I really hope so! We're basically placing all our hopes on her heat fixing the issue. I heard back from her breeder who said her pups usually have their first heat between 6 and 10 months, but because Mochi was so small, she may be on the earlier end of this range...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, here's a picture of her new diaper - it's just a shell and I put a pad inside but it works great. Haven't been able to get a better picture so apologies for the fuzziness.



I just don't get the idea that small dogs come into season early. Timi was 15.5 months. My other little girls were spayed at 12 months, with no prior heats. There are a couple in our group that came in around 13 months. But NONE with this 6 - 8 month business...


----------



## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

Yeah, I keep finding conflicting information also, as in "smaller dogs mature faster" and then as you and others experienced... Sigh. I would love if she came into heat earlier but honestly the main thing I hope is that whenever she does, it will greatly reduce if not eliminate her unconscious leaking.


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

BrooklynBonnie said:


> Yeah, I keep finding conflicting information also, as in "smaller dogs mature faster" and then as you and others experienced... Sigh. I would love if she came into heat earlier but honestly the main thing I hope is that whenever she does, it will greatly reduce if not eliminate her unconscious leaking.



Ahh, but you want her to be a bigger Mini, right? So be careful what you wish for, because the first heat should mean that she is done growing!


----------



## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

Yes! It's so stressful with her leaking so we wish it could be over soon, but then we do also wish she could grow more - such a catch 22!  She was napping on the couch yesterday, with her diaper on, and leaked. The way she was laying on her side made it easy for the pee to escape the diaper and soak into the diaper shell and the couch. My husband was not happy.  Big sigh...


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

BrooklynBonnie said:


> Yes! It's so stressful with her leaking so we wish it could be over soon, but then we do also wish she could grow more - such a catch 22!  She was napping on the couch yesterday, with her diaper on, and leaked. The way she was laying on her side made it easy for the pee to escape the diaper and soak into the diaper shell and the couch. My husband was not happy.  Big sigh...



:-( just for future reference, a leather sofa and waterproof mattress cover are requisite furnishings in my house, no matter what, you just never know with dogs...


----------

