# Size as in stocky



## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Poodles should have medium bone - neither heavy nor thin. They are, after all, sporting dogs who should be able to be able to retrieve a large bird (standards, of course). Miniatures and toys should look like small standard poodles.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

Chris, have you had close contact with a mini or standard? 

They're sturdy dogs - strong and fast - but what specific tasks/lifestyle do you have in mind?


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## ChrisH (6 mo ago)

Johanna said:


> Poodles should have medium bone - neither heavy nor thin. They are, after all, sporting dogs who should be able to be able to retrieve a large bird (standards, of course). Miniatures and toys should look like small standard poodles.





Dianaleez said:


> Chris, have you had close contact with a mini or standard?
> 
> They're sturdy dogs - strong and fast - but what specific tasks/lifestyle do you have in mind?


Hi there, I have a moyen poodle that I was gifted at 12 weeks old and is now 11 years old. I am looking for seziure and gait work.
Chris


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## ChrisH (6 mo ago)

I have kept this guy even though the vets and pet aroma therapists and touch therapy and obedience training have all failed to produce positive results. He is hyper sensitive and it has increased since day one. He will almost jump at the slightest such as a car door closing. He will shake and shudder in his sleep. I am of the mind that you do the best you can for them as they would for you, he really loves the family me especially and will alert dramatically, and non stop, if anyone comes onto our property. This includes running circles around their vehicle as it comes up our drive although he will never get within 5 feet so super cool not having to worry he will bother anyone other than his bark.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Look at Barbets.


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## Jamie'sowner (Jun 29, 2020)

With another dog- you may want to test (if possible) our whether they are hypoallergenic for you as studies show that hypoallergenic breeds aren't hypoallergenic so it may possibly be that it is just the poodle breed that is not allergic for you. 

Is there any reason you want a dog stockier than a standard poodle? There are poodles doing seizure and gait work.

You may wish to consider, I hate to say it 😛 , the labradoodle. But it could vary what you get so it would be wise to carefully observe if the parents are what you want temperament wise and physically.


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

An Irish Water Spaniel might have the build you are looking for. They are sporting/hunting dogs so you should probably be outdoorsy.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

With respect, a mixed breed seems less likely to offer hypoallergenic benefits.

@Dechi 's suggestion makes a lot of sense, as does @SteveSIWS's IWS idea.


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## Jamie'sowner (Jun 29, 2020)

Streetcar said:


> With respect, a mixed breed seems less likely to offer hypoallergenic benefits.
> 
> @Dechi 's suggestion makes a lot of sense, as does @SteveSIWS's IWS idea.


There aren't many barbets or irish water spaniels doing seizure alert if that is what OP wants. Whatever the breed though, if it is not entirely poodle, it would definitely be wise to test it out first if you are the one with the allergy. No dogs are hypoallergenic in general.


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## CharlietheToy (Oct 20, 2021)

Not a common breed, but when we were looking for a hypoallergenic breed that was sturdier than a toy poodle (we had small kids at the time), we chose a Polish Lowland Sheepdog. She was definitely stocky in build, medium-sized at about 30 pounds, and very, very smart. Definitely a working dog, always watching out for her pack. (When she passed away at 12 two years ago, we did acquire a toy poodle (which is why I am on this site)). I remember being frustrated because so many of the hypoallergenic breeds are quite small. I recall that Portuguese Water Dogs are another larger breed that is also hypoallergenic.


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## CharlietheToy (Oct 20, 2021)

CharlietheToy said:


> Not a common breed, but when we were looking for a hypoallergenic breed that was sturdier than a toy poodle (we had small kids at the time), we chose a Polish Lowland Sheepdog. She was definitely stocky in build, medium-sized at about 30 pounds, and very, very smart. Definitely a working dog, always watching out for her pack. (When she passed away at 12 two years ago, we did acquire a toy poodle (which is why I am on this site)). I remember being frustrated because so many of the hypoallergenic breeds are quite small. I recall that Portuguese Water Dogs are another larger breed that is also hypoallergenic.


I should have said "always watching out for her _herd_"! She seemed to regard all humans as sheep.


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## Pavie (May 4, 2021)

Maybe a Portuguese Water Dog? Obama has one. They are hypoallergenic. Females are around 17–20 inches and 35–50 lbs. Males are around 20–22 inches and 42–60 lbs. They would be on the stockier side compared to poodles.

Also agree with @Jamie'sowner, maybe a labradoodle. The first labradoodle was created to be a guide dog suitable for guide work while having a non-shedding coat. There are some guide dog organizations that use labradoodles. However, there is a lot of unpredictability with doodles. You can get all sorts of combinations, from poodle coats to straight retriever coats. A Multigenerational Australian Labradoodle would probably be the best choice for stability / predictability if you were to choose a doodle.

I would also look into trainers who trains service dogs. Or if you can't find one, a trainer who does dog rehabilitation would be a good alternative (if they can deal with the most difficult cases, than any other dog would be easy for them!) There are ways to build a dog's confidence. Early socialization definitely helps if you have a puppy. With older dogs, it's still possible to build confidence with structure, obedience, trick training, and exposure to different environments. With social media widely available these days, many trainers share their training videos, so it could help you find someone who is open about their methods and results. I would look for someone who has good results and good client reviews. Maybe joining an online / in-person service dog community so you can learn from each other.


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## ChrisH (6 mo ago)

CharlietheToy said:


> I should have said "always watching out for her _herd_"! She seemed to regard all humans as sheep.


Thank you, before getting the poodle the Portuguese water dog was the toss up choice but cost became an issue because I am on SSDI.


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## ChrisH (6 mo ago)

Thank you all for your information, I just saw that there is a forum specific for service dogs so perhaps I should continue this posting there?


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

A responsibly bred Poodle seems likely to cost as much as a Portie. Definitely worth putting aside savings, not only for the purchase but also for veterinary expenses.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

Oh do join us over on the Poodle Service Dogs forum. I will ask moderator to move this thread over there


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I've moved the thread to the service dog forum per request.


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## ChrisH (6 mo ago)

Thank you,
Just wanted to add that I was told one of the harder commands for a service dog is "under" but because Ember is always looking to hide from stuff for me it was one of the easier commands to teach him.


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## BBVidya (6 mo ago)

I am currently training my red standard poodle, Aliana, to be my mobility, balance and proprioception dog. She has plenty of bone and strength and is pushing 55lbs at 10 months of age. She is not fat. She had more substance at even 6 months than some adult poodles I’ve seen.
As a teenager, she is working on manners and obedience; no weight bearing,(pending spay post 1st heat and X-ray) but she has also learned to hit a handicap sign in prep for opening automated doors. 

She is from Bijou poodles and from a working and championship show line, parents health tested and many service dogs come from this excellent breeder. Laura’s support and love for this delightful breed are unequalled in my experience. Her dogs are 
and I could not want a better temperament than mine. Fearless, loves everyone on the planet and could care less about thunderstorms, fireworks & insatiably curious and notices everything.

I had a “drop attack” July 5 and this dog barked and barked until my neighbors heard and came to help me. This big puppy has saved me once already!

Be aware a labradoodle may inherit not only shedding, but also an insatiable appetite, and the love of tromping through mud to play—which is not fun to groom if occurring frequently.
Good luck on your search!


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

The difficulty in recommending other breeds is that they will have higher wash rates than poodles will. A large male standard poodle should have good bone and muscle. I do know of old english sheepdogs that work as service dogs, but I'm not sure how difficult it would be to find one with the right temperament. Barbets have heavier bone, and they might be your best match. PWD likely is more dog than you want to deal with. I do not think PWD are often recommended for service work.


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## ChrisH (6 mo ago)

Thanks for all the reply's so far, they have been most helpful. The poodle is still my dog of choice. Based on what this guy has been able to do maybe a slightly bigger klein or moyen or smaller spoo ( he is 28 lbs and 23 inches at the shoulders) would be ideal. Conformation is not a criteria, temperament. calmness, smarts and being able to be trained is.
Thanks again
Chris


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

ChrisH said:


> Thanks for all the reply's so far, they have been most helpful. The poodle is still my dog of choice. Based on what this guy has been able to do maybe a slightly bigger klein or moyen or smaller spoo ( he is 28 lbs and 23 inches at the shoulders) would be ideal. Conformation is not a criteria, temperament. calmness, smarts and being able to be trained is.
> Thanks again
> Chris


I think I understand why you write conformation isn't a criteria. However conformation is breeding to the standard. Poodles are originally working dogs and therefore need to be agile, sturdy and healthy. Conformation ensures a dog with limbs that fit and work together. Poodles live 15 + years and you want a dog that lives as pain-free a life as possible. F.ex. too long a loin can give back problems. Too short a loin, combined with a Poodles long legs, can give problems with the gait, as you risk hind legs knocking front legs et cetera.
I definitely look for health, conformation and temperament. 
Look forward to following your journey on getting the perfect companion for you.


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## ChrisH (6 mo ago)

Minie said:


> I think I understand why you write conformation isn't a criteria. However conformation is breeding to the standard. Poodles are originally working dogs and therefore need to be agile, sturdy and healthy. Conformation ensures a dog with limbs that fit and work together. Poodles live 15 + years and you want a dog that lives as pain-free a life as possible. F.ex. too long a loin can give back problems. Too short a loin, combined with a Poodles long legs, can give problems with the gait, as you risk hind legs knocking front legs et cetera.
> I definitely look for health, conformation and temperament.
> Look forward to following your journey on getting the perfect companion for you.


Hi,
I should clarify better when I say conformation isn't a criteria. I mean it is not going to be in conformation shows so that level of criteria is not a consideration.
Sorry for any confusion
Best
Chris


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

ChrisH said:


> Hi,
> I should clarify better when I say conformation isn't a criteria. I mean it is not going to be in conformation shows so that level of criteria is not a consideration.
> Sorry for any confusion
> Best
> Chris


Thank you for the clarification. So looking forward to seeing your pup.


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