# Discouraging search for our first standard--Please Help!



## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

Hello All,

I've turned to this forum often over the past 1.5 years, as I've researched and DILIGENTLY searched for the perfect Standard Poodle for my family. I am in LOVE with the breed and want nothing more than to give a sweet dog a warm, happy, stable home full of people who are willing to give it lots of attention and training. I have finally reached the the point where I am really serious and prepared to plunk down some cash.

However, what I'm learning (through painful disappointment), is that buying a dog from a breeder is a complicated dance. I have spoken to at least a dozen breeders at various times during my journey and I've learned a lot. A few have been unwelcoming and unfriendly. Many have been very courteous and generous with their advice but are clearly unwilling to sell to me. Several have not returned my calls and I've had two recent contacts dismiss me (or ignore my calls) after I thought they were a sure thing. At this point I'm tempted to give up on the dream and just go to the pound for a happy mutt.  But this option makes me so sad.

Any advice for a nice family in New Mexico who are willing to take either a grown, retired show dog or a puppy and will travel anywhere in the SW region to get their new dog? I'm feeling lost.


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## AngelAviary (Aug 12, 2014)

I am so sorry you are having so much trouble bring home a new family member. I honestly cant understand why you would have so much trouble. Have they given you reasons they wont sell to you? Have you tried contacting a breed rescue to see if you can be put on a list if your willing to adopt an older dog? I do wish you luck as I also have my first Standard Poodle and I cant imagine life without her in it now. Hope you find your baby soon!


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## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

Thanks AngelAviary,

My circumstances are somewhat complicated, so that may be the reason for SOME of the trouble I'm having. I have three kids (ages 2, 9, and 12) and one breeder really discouraged me from getting a standard puppy b/c of the toddler. I appreciated her perspective and wise advice and for quite awhile I redirected my search to grown, retired show dogs. I found a breeder who said he had two dogs he was retiring this year and he was super positive about me being a good match for one of those dogs--now he won't return my calls. Maybe he's just busy, but I'm done pestering him.

We also have 10 chickens and 2 cats, so--with all these factors--I'm back to thinking that a puppy will be my best choice because I will have the opportunity to acclimate a dog to our life and not HOPE to find a full-grown dog that will be comfortable in our crazy house.

Also, I seem to have turned one breeder off by mentioning that I had talked with other breeders. I was REALLY serious about her litter and I inadvertenly gave her the impression I was shopping around. After many great phone conversations where she told me that she thought we'd surely get a pup from her upcoming litter, she sent an email to say that since I'm talking to other breeders, I should probably just go with one of them.  So heartbreaking!


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## princesspenny (Feb 16, 2015)

I feel your pain...it can be a very trying experience, more so than i think buying a dog should be. What have they done to dismiss you? reasoning? Is there some sort of flag going off? I dont get it. You may have to get on a wait list but i cant imagine it would be too very hard to find a std. poodle, they seem to be one of the more popular sizes, at least around here. Are you wanting something that is hard to find? or full reg on a dog? because that is something most breeders wont give you. Who have you talked to so far?


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## AngelAviary (Aug 12, 2014)

Well that is very frustrating for you. I know many folks have opinions about toddlers and puppies but as you've probably seen we have many, many members with children and they get young pups and things work out just fine. Also don't know why a breeder would be upset about you talking with other breeders. You had not put a deposit down on one of hers so there is no harm in just talking. Its not like she was going to take a loss on anything. Goodness I sure hope you find your pup, you've done the best you can doing your homework and research before making the "plunge"


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## princesspenny (Feb 16, 2015)

AngelAviary said:


> Well that is very frustrating for you. I know many folks have opinions about toddlers and puppies but as you've probably seen we have many, many members with children and they get young pups and things work out just fine. Also don't know why a breeder would be upset about you talking with other breeders. You had not put a deposit down on one of hers so there is no harm in just talking. Its not like she was going to take a loss on anything. Goodness I sure hope you find your pup, you've done the best you can doing your homework and research before making the "plunge"


agree...if you dont have a deposit in who cares if you talk to other breeders? As for toddlers and puppies I have a 2.5 yr old and a puppy right now and i've done it before in the past- whats the problem? If your getting a dog as a "family" dog, dont you want it to be in the "family" and learn how to be a good member? I personally only trust dogs with kids who have been raised around them because then you know they truly "get it" where as an adult dog who wasnt raised around kids cant be trusted around them imo- they are unpredictable at best. I will only ever have a puppy because then i know what i have at face value and i know there is no hidden "baggage". Considering that poodles are supposed to be good family dogs i wouldnt go with a breeder who is telling you otherwise anyway. Maybe someone here can recommend a good breeder in your area for you. As a mother i highly recommend you get a puppy or a dog who was raised with kids. Yes you will need to teach both puppy and toddler proper manners...but thats par for the course with any pet.


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## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

Thanks to you both.

I'm not picky about color or registration. I'm not planning to breed or even show. There are a couple of breeders that I really liked and who have been very nice: Rebel Star in Alabama and Harmony Mountain in Arizona. Both seem to have sterling reputations. Rebel Star is FAR away, plus she keeps the puppies til they're 12 weeks old and then charges more to cover her costs. One the good thing about her system is that the pup comes home with two sets of shots, altered, and less fragile than an 8 week old. But you pay $2500 up front--plus $400 shipping in my case. Yikes!

Nothing bad to say about Harmony Mountain. I was so impressed by the amount and quality of info on her website and our talk was very helpful. I'm still hoping to work something out with her for the future. 

I don't want to share the names of those I had discouraging experiences with b/c I wouldn't want to discredit them based on my specific experience. 

Honestly, it just feels like a really complicated dance that I don't know the steps to. I feel like an outsider who wants desperately to be invited to the cool kids' party!


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## princesspenny (Feb 16, 2015)

I personally would not go with a breeder who alters dogs so young- her pups may be fantastic i just disagree with that practice, its really not healthy. Maybe if you search through the breeders directory here, something will pop up closer to you. I didnt want to ship a puppy but there were no breeders near me so i drove 7hrs to get my pup. It was very hard and yes its a complicated thing getting a pup.


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## princesspenny (Feb 16, 2015)

How far are you from Desert Reef Poodles ? maybe an option, I dont have personal experience but they might have a puppy and are obviously fine with kids and have nice dogs?


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

This may be the reason, some go to backyard breeders, if I were treated like that and given not reason, I would be very upset, however, I am not recommending getting a dog from a backyard breeder, but I think you have went the extra mile.

I will not support our local human society, for the very reason. I work with a lady that tried to get on from the pound they did not feel she could handle a dog working a regular job


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## Theo'sMom (Mar 23, 2011)

Please don't give up. My sister had a standard puppy with two young kids and it was fine, especially since she was a sahm and had time for both kids and pups. Do you have a local akc that might refer you to local breeders?


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

continued
She has had 2 dogs for 14 years and in one has spent 20,000 so that shows you, most people would not or could not afford that expense, I know I could not.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I am so sorry that you're feeling so discouraged. It amazes me how people like that have such bad manners as to not return your calls or emails...not to explain why they don't (if they don't) want to sell you a puppy. I realize people get busy but that's no excuse for such treatment.

Anyhow, moving on...I agree that to insist on neutering or spaying that young or before the dog is full grown is not healthy.

Did you contact some of the local Poodle clubs in a few areas around you? Have you been to any shows lately? That's a place where you can usually find some nice Poodles and when their owners aren't about to go into the ring, you can usually talk to them and see if they know anyone with nice puppies available or planned litters coming soon. What you need, I think, rather than looking on the Internet and hoping it's not just a pretty website, are some direct links from real people with real Poodles that you can see and talk to. Or maybe someone here will know of a reputable breeder in the southwest where they may have gotten a puppy. 

I think $2,500 for a dog you're not even going to breed is too much money. Of course, I suppose it all varies depending on geographic location. But I sure wouldn't pay that much. 

Don't despair. You will get the dog of your dreams. Let people here on the forum help guide you. You're sure to get more responses here. We have some breeders here who may be able to hook you up with someone in your area or somewhere around your area. 

Do you have a fenced yard? Most breeders want that. I know I would. Do you have references from vets or other people who can vouch for you as being a good doggie owner? I don't see what's wrong with having a family, including a young child. Our daughter was 1.5 years old when we got our GSD pup who was about 14 or 16 weeks old. (I forget now exactly...been 34 years. lol) He was wonderful with kids...all kids, the perfect family dog. I think however, if a dog isn't raised with kids but has been exceedingly well socialized with them, that's fine. But the trouble is you never know how well a dog has been socialized when you get it as an adult. People lie. I know my own two tpoos are ecstatic when they get to visit with the neighbor kids. They're so well socialized to them and love them. They'd be great with kids if I had any grand kids around, which I don't.

Anyhow, you hang in there. Your Poodle will find you and you will find your Poodle with a little more hard, pioneer work.


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## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

Thanks for the encouragement, folks! 

I think i'll soldier on for the Standard a bit longer and SIMULTANEOUSLY i'll look at the human society website, in case the perfect alternative doggie pops up there. Today I found myself writing a vaguely groveling letter to a breeder who was suddenly and inexplicably not interesting in selling to me. I don't know the reason for her sudden change of heart, but it's apparent that I offended her somehow (without meaning to). But it is hilarious that I'm sending apologies and begging someone to let me pay THEM $2000…

As a consumer in this scenario, my position is VERY unlike any other time I'm fixing to pay someone $2000--they're also evaluating me to decide if I'm someone they WANT to sell to. And the reasons that each breeder might not choose a buyer are completely varied. sigh.

I guess I haven't found my breeder yet. I left a message for Windswept Poodles in Colorado Springs today--any thoughts about them? 

Thanks PrincessPenny for your thoughts about early altering. Yet another thing to think about!


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

roflmao I was reading your thread and was thinking I wonder if she has contacted Windswept... My 3 poodles came from her and last year I took one of her pups over to my sister in the St Louis area. I think you would love one of her puppies.


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## Naira (Jan 9, 2015)

I hope windswept works out. That is really rude for someone to just stop replying to you. Sorry you experienced that.


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## maria_maria (Mar 6, 2015)

I certainly sympathize. I am trying to find a mini poodle and it is not so easy. In fact, I can't find any puppy from a known breeder. I know that I am doing something wrong, but I don't know what is it.

BTW, it is not easy to find a healthy puppy from shelter, either. Shelters around us have either pit-bulls or Chihuahua puppies, nothing else. In addition, shelters often list any young dog as a "puppy" in search engines. 

I am starting to prepare myself, mentally, for a BYB puppy or a doodle. I don't understand why is it so difficult to find a good poodle.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

If you don't mind saying Maria, what area are you in? Maybe someone here knows of a reputable breeder they could point you to somewhere in the vicinity. Or like I said, local Poodle clubs, dog shows for links. (?)


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## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

Poodlebeguiled --thanks for your long message!

I have done tons of research including contacting my local poodle club and getting an extensive list of recommended breeders from them. I've called everyone on that list, but I've only heard back from a small fraction. I might try a few of them again.

There is a poodle show here in Albuquerque on mother's day weekend and I'm really excited to go and chat with some of the folks there. Maybe that'll lead to something…I have this silly fantasy that I'll walk in there empty handed and walk away with an adorable puppy. 

Our yard is fenced and we have 1/2 an acre on a dead end street near a huge protected open space for walking/running/playing. My two oldest kids are REALLY energetic boys who would play retrieving games with the dog for hours. My husband and I both work from home offices, so the dog would have lots of attention. I know we would make a great family for the right dog and I hope you're right about it finding us soon!

Molly


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## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

Hi Spindledreams! I'm so glad to hear that you would recommend Windswept not just once, but THREE times! I actually spoke to Angela this evening and she is planning a litter whose temperament might suit our family (she said it was Tiger Lily and Rhino). 

Unfortunately, that litter isn't predicted until early August and not ready to go home until mid September.  I don't think I have the heart to wait that long. This has been a long enough journey already.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Hang in there and take your time. When I searched for my girl it took me nearly 9 months of searching and researching to finally get my hands on a pup. Due to distance I had her shipped to me. Because she came from a HIGHLY respected breeder I had no qualms about her selecting the right pup for me.

I contacted AKC, Poodle Club of Amerrica and Columbine State Poodle Club (Colorado) all sent me breeder recomendations and that is how I found my breeder, who is in KY. 

I agree that yhe one breeder was asking too much for a "pet" puppy and I would NEVER agree to a puppy that is "altered" at such a young age as that poses long term health issues.

Check out Azel Poodles in Indianapolis. She has really lovely dogs and will be expecting pups this summer. She is taking deposits and a waiting list right now. Her dog's bloodlines are from my breeder Ann Rairigh of Litilann's Poodles in Louisville KY. Ann was absolutely lovely to work with and I would not hesitate to get another dog from her bloodlines. I realize you want someone closer but you could fly out and bring a pup back in the cabin of the plane. 13 years ago when I got Iris there were many breeders charging much more for pups that were not as well bred.

Don't get discouraged. Your dream dog is out there. Iris is my dream dog and she is still going strong at age 13. She goes everywhere with me and has "fan clubs" all over town!

Here she is last summer.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Boy, if I were a breeder I'd be ecstatic to find someone like you for my puppy. It sounds like the perfect home. You know...I felt kind of like you probably when I started my search. I even wrote a thread entitled something like, there are no Poodles in America. LOL. That's what I was beginning to feel like. And then I found my wonderful breeder right here in Wa about 20 minutes away. LOL. See, first, I was quite conscious of color. When I dropped that notion, I came upon a couple of good breeders around here. I really didn't want to travel far. So, there really are Poodles in this and other countries and there are good breeders. Rome wasn't built in a day. America wasn't built by people who gave up their dreams. So, hang in there girl. Keep hounding those people. Did you try the president of the clubs or the secretary? Do they run any classes? See if you can find a training club and see if they know anyone. There just has to be someone good. You might have to go a little outside your area and try another club. (?) 

I wonder if there was a show or something big going on that some of those breeders didn't get back to you. Maybe you should ask them again....ask if you offended them or if they're just busy? Tell them you won't keep bugging them if they could just tell you point blank if they don't want to sell you a pup and you'll get on with it and stop calling them. (?) It WILL happen. I just know it.


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## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

Maria - 

My experience with the pound and local rescues is VERY similar--all pit bulls and Chihuahuas with a few heelers and australian shepherds. It sounds like you're in New Mexico!

I also understand the temptation to shift your perspective to consider a BYB--my mind has gone there too! I find myself thinking, "they all have adorable dogs! All the dogs just need love and a good home, after all!"


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

blush actually it is more like 5 times... We have 3 of our own from her plus the one I took to my sister who is actually a Rhino daughter  And I am currently working with another of her puppies while I learn more about dog shows. 

Rhino is a big sweetie and his puppies all had a pretty laid back temperament. My sister loves her Luna.


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## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

Viking Queen - 

Great advice--yeah. I'm having a hard time with patience at this point!  Iris is just absolutely delicious. It's those big, dark, soulful eyes and the thoughtful, discriminating expression--THAT'S the very reason I want a standard. Thanks for reminding me. Also thanks for the advice to look a bit further out. I will definitely look into Azel.

Wow, Poodlebeguiled! You're the best. Thank a million times for all your kindness and encouragement. You make me want to stick with it. 

We actually lived in Seattle for 10 years and still have some family there who we occasionally visit. For that reason, we are thinking that Washington might work…there are direct flights from Albuquerque and one of us could combine a puppy pick up with a visit to family. Do you know anything about Blue Willow Breeders in Gig Harbor? Any other recommendations close to western WA?


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## service_spoo (Mar 14, 2015)

As for Blue Willow, I know one forum member had a terrible experience with them:
http://www.poodleforum.com/16-poodle-breeder-directory/107489-help-pup-not-what-expected.html

I have no personal experience with them, but that thread is worth a read (it's not revealed that the puppy is from Blue Willow until the end)

I do however have experience with Coplar Creek Standard Poodles in Orting, WA. In fact, I'm picking up a puppy from them this weekend! Sheila Thomas is very kind and knowledgeable. She shows her dogs and does health testing. She is also active in therapy work and temperament tests her puppies to match them to families. I have nothing but good things to say about her. Take my word with a grain of salt, however, because obviously I can only tell you what I know from interacting with the breeder and not her dogs. I can update you after I pick up my puppy on Saturday re her dogs, living conditions, etc.

Good luck on your poodle search!


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

If you want to talk, PM me and I will give you contact info. I would be happy to chat a bit, or a LOT about Spoos.

you are right about Iris' eyes. They look right through you. She has been a pure delight and a comfort to many. She helped me take care of my elderly Mom in the last 2 years of her life and made Mom smile daily. We have an elderly friend who is in and out of Hospitals and care centers and Iris visits our friend with me. She loves children and is careful around elderly and frail people, but can still chase a squirrel with the best of them and will retreive tennis balls for hours. 

At one rehab center where our friend was staying Iris kept staring at the legs of every walker in the hallway. I finally realized it was because they all had tennis balls on the bottoms of the legs. Iris was trying to figure out how to get them for herself. It was funny. She would look at the tennis balls then look sadly at me. :angel2:

You can't tell size in the picture but she is petite, about 21 inches and only 35 lbs. Just right for me if I have to lift her in the event of an illness or emergency. My previous Spoo was 70 lbs. and I had a problem when she became ill and collapsed...something to consider when choosing size.

Don't be discouraged and be discriminating about who you deal with. You deserve a healthy, well bred pup. It is worth waiting for.

Good luck.....Viking Queen


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

knittingmolly said:


> Viking Queen -
> 
> Great advice--yeah. I'm having a hard time with patience at this point!  Iris is just absolutely delicious. It's those big, dark, soulful eyes and the thoughtful, discriminating expression--THAT'S the very reason I want a standard. Thanks for reminding me. Also thanks for the advice to look a bit further out. I will definitely look into Azel.
> 
> ...



Service Spoo has an idea there worth checking into. If you came to the Seattle area, you could contact Christine Dallas, the secretary of the Puget Sound Poodle Club. She is also a well known and respected breeder of Standards and toys. Her kennel is Farthing Poodles...you can find online. Also, Dana Plonkey is my breeder of my toys. He doesn't breed Standards but if anyone knows who has some good puppies or will have, he'd know. He's the president of the Puget Sound Poodle Club and his kennel name is Valcopy. I've talked with Christine a few times and also met her at shows and the Poodle Club Xmas party. She's very nice and the epitome of a lady. She will return your calls and show you politeness, I guarantee it. I believe her to be a very reputable breeder of some good looking spoos. So there are a few leads for ya. I'd still recommend you do your own checking and asking of questions etc.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Viking Queen said:


> Hang in there and take your time. When I searched for my girl it took me nearly 9 months of searching and researching to finally get my hands on a pup. Due to distance I had her shipped to me. Because she came from a HIGHLY respected breeder I had no qualms about her selecting the right pup for me.
> 
> I contacted AKC, Poodle Club of Amerrica and Columbine State Poodle Club (Colorado) all sent me breeder recomendations and that is how I found my breeder, who is in KY.
> 
> ...


I am sure you know this; but, Its time for Iris to train a new dog for you?
Eric.:angel2:


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

ericwd9 said:


> I am sure you know this; but, Its time for Iris to train a new dog for you?
> Eric.:angel2:


I have thought of that Eric, and I may go there. I have always been a one dog person. Currently I have a full plate with starting a new in home business as well as nursing a failing elderly cat. Violet, my cat has quit eating and is shutting down. :sad: I could not handle a puppy at the moment, but do find myself checking breeder sites from time to time. Can't help but think about that new puppy excitement though.

I would go back to my original breeder, in a flash, or go to Azel, who has Litilann bloodlines.

I'll share a picture of the lovely Miss Violet with you all. This morning she was a bit more perky. She's 17 and the picture was taken at age 10.

Knittingmolly, hang in there, you will find your perfect fur kid. You have received some excellent advice and contact i formation.

Have a good day, everyone.

Viking Queen


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I'm so sorry about your sweet cat VQ. That is really old...17. It's so hard when they start showing those signs. I had cats in the past and two of them were as you describe...shutting down. My thoughts are with you. 

Sometimes I think about what it would be like to be a one dog person...even though I have been in the distant past. lol. I forget sort of. There would be some plusses for sure....less complicated in some areas. I have had various numbers of dogs at given times and I think my favorite, most comfortable number has been two. Two, so there are play mates for each other at all times, on demand, lol. And for me, which makes life very interesting with dogs, as they're behavior is so much fun to watch...some different stuff going on, different personalities. In my case three _very _different personalities. But when Jose` is gone, I'll probably just stick with the two tpoos. _Two_ is not _too_ much to attend_ to_. lol.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I was lucky and found my first spoo in about 2 weeks, but I understand how you feel. I sent e-mails to so many breeders and never heard a thing back ! Then I got a bite and we e-mailed a few times and then I happened to say, I had also been looking at Petfinder and that was the end of her !!!! She had not ever said she had a dog for me... I did not understand how that was so bad. I had always gotten rescued dogs in the past and had hoped to continue, but somehow that made me unfit. I did find the perfect dog and could not be happier so hang in there and be willing to make a trip if need be. 

I think the fact that I wanted an adult dog that was good with little dogs and a toddler that lived next door and visited daily was my issue. I also think that breeders like a owner that has already owned a Poodle, I had two shih tuzs and somehow that was not good in their eyes either... If I ever look again, I will not tell everything about my life and just get a dog and train it to fit .


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## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

Violet is so beautiful. When my beloved kitty Gus finally died at age 17, I was lost. It's so amazing the way their little bodies contain such BIG, HUGE soulful personalities.


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## Legs&Leashes (Mar 12, 2015)

I feel your pain! Please hang in there! This is happening simply because you haven't found your perfect pup you were meant to have yet! I know you don't want to wait, and I can't blame you .. but I met in person with a trainer & breeder and his dogs are gorgeous, friendly and little geniuses! He himself shared so much about his dogs, live for the breed & answered any questions. We had such a good chat and he went out of his way to leave & come back to make sure I had his card. He invited me into their home & welcomed visits before the planned pups could come home So there ARE some wonderful poodle breeders out there... there is hope! Meeting them gave me hope! Hang in there! 
The 2 to be bred are blue & they are sweet as pie. Litter will be due in December and is here in CA. I do understand that is quite the wait for you though. Just thought I'd share plus maybe someone else is in the same boat


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## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

Hello All,

I just chatted with Wendy of WeKay Standard Poodles. She was lovely and she has two available male parti poodles from her current litter (born March 22). 

I found it interesting that, even though the pups are not quite 3 weeks old, many have already been claimed based purely on their appearance. I asked if she does temperament testing and she said that she doesn't do it in a formal way, but she gets to know pretty clearly what the dog's characters are. I asked her if she ever has to go back to those that have chosen a particular puppy and dissuade them from their choice because the character of that dog is not quite right for the buyer's circumstances. According to her, that is only necessary on occasion. In her experience there is a leader in every pack and that dog is very assertive and dominant and NOT for everybody. She also said that each litter also has an "old soul" and this is the gentle, family pup that we want. The rest of the litter tends to fall somewhere in the middle of those two extremes.

In other words, she believes that MOST of her dogs will work for MOST situations. She says that when parents are chosen carefully and bred well, you just get a good group of dogs. My gut tells me that she's right about this. 

I guess I trusted her judgment and even though she's not using a highly calibrated method of gathering detailed information about the characters of the dogs, what she's doing might amount to the same thing. 

Am I right about this? Should I expect every breeder to do scientifically-sound temperament testing or is that just a fancy way of appeasing people who're spending oodles of cash on a dog? I mean, obviously temperament testing is more than that and I'm sure it offers REAL information that is valuable. I just wonder if I really need that degree of information or not? 

Here's the pup, she's recommending for me--of the two remaining available, she says this one is more gentle and the other one is too "bossy" for my family situation. Is it weird that she already knows which of these two is more assertive at only 3 weeks?

I'm tempted to send her a deposit, but I'd love to hear what you all think of this approach to matching a puppy with a family. I also welcome your thoughts about the breeder--she made a good impression on me, but what do I know--I'm a newbie!


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Interesting....my breeder, who grew up in a dog breeding, showing, judging family, and who has been breeding for over 35 years also does not do any "formal" temperament testing. She can pick, based on experience, the more laid back pups, the clearly alpha pup and others in between. I asked for an Alpha want to be. Someone brave, curious, not a shrinking violet, but also not an overbearing bossy soul. That's exactly what I got. Another family with no previous dog experience got a very laid back pup who was an easy follower, but not a shrinking violet. Both were picked for us by the breeder based on years of experience and observation.

So, I guess I wouldn't discount what this breeder is telling you. If other conditions are what you can agree to, then maybe you will have a good shot at this pup.

Best of luck. Keep us updated. Cute little party pup, by the way.

VQ


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## Legs&Leashes (Mar 12, 2015)

I'm probably not going to be too much help on this situation as there are many more way experienced members here. 
I do wonder... can you tell the temperament this early? Can a pup be that "bossy" so soon and not have their eyes open yet? I always wished some breeders would hold off on assigning pups so quickly. But that's just me... perhaps if they chose the parents discerningly they know best?
I will say I'd be lying if I said I weren't just a wee bit jealous. I wanted a parti so very badly! And gosh darn it is he ever cute!!!!!!


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

I think you should really consider putting a deposit down now! The breeder lists health testing on parents, just click on their photos. The deposit is refundable. The dogs sound versatile...you could research that further. The puppy contract looks reasonable. And yes, I do think an experienced breeder could have an idea on a pup's temperament at three weeks. Not as precisely as Volhard testing...maybe... but, pretty darn close. If you have your heart set on a summer pup this might be your chance. Oh, sorry, I don't know the breeder.


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## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

Thanks very much, Legs&Leashes!

It's especially nice to hear from you since I just devoted my ENTIRE evening last night to reading the 15 page epic of your journey to get your beautiful Bill! I was riveted and so gratified to see Bill there, all curled up in your car! The story inspires me to keep on keeping on in my search for a spoo of my very own!

Bill also made an appearance in my kitchen during breakfast today. You see, my husband and kids REALLY are not fans of froofy poodle cuts and have made me promise that we'll cut our dog in a simple, no-nonsense style. They occasionally need reassurance that a poodle will meet their approval, so I showed them handsome Bill and he made everyone smile!

Molly


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## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

Charmed and Viking Queen,

Thanks so much for the feedback! I especially appreciate that you took a look at her website with your more experienced eye. I do not think i have anything to lose and I think Parti puppies are adorable. I'll watch him as he grows and ask the breeder to occasionally reassure me that his temperament still seems right for our family.

I'm kind of screaming with joy on the inside!

Molly


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Most of the parti breeders I have met have one price for their puppies regardless of color. A multi color should not be more then a solid nor should a particular color combination be more expensive then any other color combination. 

Heather Bryan in Utah currently has a couple of puppies left in her solid litter and she is expecting a parti litter in a few weeks which will be priced the same as her current litter of solids. She is on Facebook and could be a good person to talk to if you want a summer puppy. I found out about them recently as Heather and I chat occasionally about my poodle sired by one of her males...


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## Legs&Leashes (Mar 12, 2015)

Hello Molly! 

Your post made me smile!! Thank you so much! I had no idea how many people had read our story, boy was it a roller coaster! He was worth every minute though. I just put up some more pics of him today... I think I have an addiction! He will be happy to know he is the topic of breakfast conversation 

I took a moment and checked out the breeder site you posted. Charmed is right, the deposit conditions are great, contract seems good, testing has been done, they are involved within the breed and the parents of all of the litters are truly gorgeous. Of course if I had anymore questions I wouldn't hesitate to talk to the breeder again. If it feels right... I say go for it!!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Yes yes yes ! Put that deposit down!!!!!! The Parti pup with the streak down his nose????? He's so cute! I'd name him 'Streaker' LOL!!!!!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

It depends on how picky you are about the temperament nuances I guess if you insist on a formal test. As for me, I think if you have a reputable breeder of dogs that can show, do field work...real work what they were bred to do, are working out for other puppy buyers, I think any puppy she breeds will be _VERY_ nice. One might be a little perkier than another or some other trait they might exhibit a little stronger. I have one that, at 5 weeks was hell on wheels and that continued throughout puppy hood. (Matisse, my show dog) I thought this little pouncer is going to be so assertive and drivey. Well, he is still, at almost 2 quite a busy body, plenty of energy and drive, but he is not particularly assertive at all. And he's mellowed out considerably. He's turned out to be quite the softie and more cautious than Maurice. Maurice, on the other hand, my teensy one was calm, quiet, happy to just chill, not so terribly bouncy. He still is quite that way, but he's the assertive one, snarky at times about resources, yappy as can be and not one bit shy or afraid of anything. Anyhow, I have two Poodles with quite different temperaments and I'm loving every minute of it. lol. It's not that important to me as long as they have good, sound, sweet, loving, attentive and stable temperaments. They're smart, love to learn and just amazing. I couldn't be happier with my Poodles.

So, it's up to you how exacting you want to try and get. I love many different kinds of temperaments. That's why I've had many different breeds I guess. It's fun and interesting to see what you're going to get (to a degree) unless you have very specific needs. My breeder didn't do any formal temperament testing that I know of. But he's been doing this for nearly 50 years and I think someone that experienced is pretty good at judging whatever one can tell at such an early age, at least for what most people want a dog for. So, I wouldn't worry about that one bit personally.

At first I was skeptical because I didn't see any health testing, but then I did when I clicked on the adults. I think the breeder looks good. Where did you dig her up? Will you go there and see her place? I would definitely do that. Did you just see this on the Internet or did someone recommend? But yes, I think you should put a deposit down asap since there are only a couple left. Her dogs look very nice to me. I'm so excited for you! I loooooove parties. (both kinds) Can't wait to hear back.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

I looked at her web site again. Some VERY nice looking dogs.

I think, were I in your shoes, I would POUNCE on this opportunity.

Best of luck, VQ


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## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

spindledreams said:


> Most of the parti breeders I have met have one price for their puppies regardless of color. A multi color should not be more then a solid nor should a particular color combination be more expensive then any other color combination.
> 
> Heather Bryan in Utah currently has a couple of puppies left in her solid litter and she is expecting a parti litter in a few weeks which will be priced the same as her current litter of solids. She is on Facebook and could be a good person to talk to if you want a summer puppy. I found out about them recently as Heather and I chat occasionally about my poodle sired by one of her males...


Thanks for the tip Heather--I'll take a look and I may call Heather as another option--her website was nice with such adorable dogs!


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## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

I'm feeling really grateful to you all right now. Deposit check written to WeKay and sitting by the front door. It goes in the mail tomorrow. If she tells me that the dog is just plain wrong for me or I change my mind, I won't lose my money. I can live with those odds. I have a good feeling about Wendy and I really appreciated that she was so down-to-earth and easy to talk to. 

She was recommended to me by PF member Quossum, whose sister got a dog from her. She has also sent many others to WeKay...


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## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

Legs&Leashes said:


> Hello Molly!
> 
> Your post made me smile!! Thank you so much! I had no idea how many people had read our story, boy was it a roller coaster! He was worth every minute though. I just put up some more pics of him today... I think I have an addiction! He will be happy to know he is the topic of breakfast conversation
> 
> I took a moment and checked out the breeder site you posted. Charmed is right, the deposit conditions are great, contract seems good, testing has been done, they are involved within the breed and the parents of all of the litters are truly gorgeous. Of course if I had anymore questions I wouldn't hesitate to talk to the breeder again. If it feels right... I say go for it!!


Well, I'm on my way to see your newest photos now! I think you and Bill have a pretty sizable fan club at this point.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Personally, I would not buy a puppy who has been altered young. There are too many studies showing that pediatric spay/neuter can be very detrimental to a dog long term. I would also not buy from anyone who charges different amounts based on gender or colour.

Be patient. Show season is just revving up, so if a breeder does not get back to you immediately, it could be that they are prepping for a show, at a show, or getting organized after a show. If you do not get a reply to email, try phoning.

I have had people on my wait list for up to two years. Hang in there! Sometimes we have to wait for what we want.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Yaaaay for you!

Be sure to keep us posted on Gotcha day!

VQ


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> *Personally, I would not buy a puppy who has been altered young. There are too many studies showing that pediatric spay/neuter can be very detrimental to a dog long term. I would also not buy from anyone who charges different amounts based on gender or colour.*
> Be patient. Show season is just revving up, so if a breeder does not get back to you immediately, it could be that they are prepping for a show, at a show, or getting organized after a show. If you do not get a reply to email, try phoning.
> 
> I have had people on my wait list for up to two years. Hang in there! Sometimes we have to wait for what we want.


This would bother me too, especially the early neutering...which I must have missed...didn't see anything about that on the website, which I didn't go to every page. And I agree about the different charges for different colors or genders. (didn't see that either at first) But Quossom has a nice dog it would appear and everything else seems to not be back yard breedish. I still wouldn't pay $2000 for a dog. (unless Standards are just more all the time) I got two puppies for $1,500. (they would have been $1000 each but he wasn't in it for money and they were ready to have their apron strings cut so that's how I wound up with Maurice for a real bargain. lol) And they're very nice, well bred dogs, one of which got his AKC champion at 7 months of age. He didn't ask for more because the dog could be shown, championed and bred. He just wants to be a co owner if the dog is bred and split the stud fee and have something to say about who the dog will be bred to, which I would leave up to him anyhow. He doesn't want his name on some back yard bred doodle. 

I don't remember how long I waited to find my perfect breeder who has a stellar reputation. But I know it seemed an eternity. It was pretty long but not as long as waiting for my Doberman. That really was long...over a year. 

But all that said, as much as I agree with Arreau on some points there, I don't think you'd go _very_ wrong with this either. Health tested, reputation, UKC titles, nice looking, hopefully, premises nice looking too...you've got that going for you. If it were me....hmmm, I don't know what I'd do. But I have trouble making up my mind on a menu. LOL.


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## itzmeigh (Apr 28, 2014)

knittingmolly said:


> I'm feeling really grateful to you all right now. Deposit check written to WeKay and sitting by the front door. It goes in the mail tomorrow. If she tells me that the dog is just plain wrong for me or I change my mind, I won't lose my money. I can live with those odds. I have a good feeling about Wendy and I really appreciated that she was so down-to-earth and easy to talk to.
> 
> She was recommended to me by PF member Quossum, whose sister got a dog from her. She has also sent many others to WeKay...



You will be happy! I'm Quossum's sister and my Hazel is from WeKay. I've been very pleased with her as a breeder. I have been out to her shop and I haver personally met, and played with, Apache and Walker. I've also met Carmen (Hazel's mom, she isn't on the site as a breeder anymore.). Walker and Apache are awesome. I'd give anything for an Apache puppy!!

Wendy is very nice and we still keep in touch. 

I'm actually still keeping an eye on her lines. She has a new male named Phoenix I'm going to keep a close eye on.

Her prices are different for colors but not hugely different and it didn't really bother me at all.

Here's Hazel...









You can't go wrong with any of her dogs. She has very high standards for what she wants from a dog and she's breeding in that direction. 

My sister and I have followed her breeding program for a few years now. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.


ETA: OMG! I skipped your post with the male you picked! You absolutely picked the boy I've been following from that litter! I totally would have picked him! And corny as it may seem, I would have named him Harry. Hahaha! As a matter of fact when I check on the litter I usually think "oh, there's Harry!" He's my favorite. I follow her on Facebook and she posts lots more pictures there so I saw him very soon after he was born.


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## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

Wow itzmeigh!

The very first thing I need to tell you is that my 2-year-old daughter is named Hazel!  What a terrific, wonderful name you've chosen…Since my name is Molly, and I've met about 5000 golden retrievers with my name, i'm seeing a parallel here.  However, yours is the only DOG named Hazel that I've ever encountered.

It is wonderful to hear all your good words about Wendy and her dogs! And how sweet that you had your eye on sweet little puppy #4! I hope he's as gentle and sweet as she predicts.


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## Naira (Jan 9, 2015)

Happy for you!


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## itzmeigh (Apr 28, 2014)

knittingmolly said:


> Wow itzmeigh!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Then I won't tell you that I almost named her Molly. I even told Wendy that Molly was high on my list and she said "there are a lot of Mollys" and so I went back to the drawing board. 

We went with Hazel because of her color. We have a white dog named Cotton (NotAPoodle) and a cat apply named Shadow (and a cat named Max) and decided that sticking to a color theme would be fun. 

When Hazel came home at 7.5 weeks she already knew sit and she already knew that she couldn't come out of her pen until was sitting and calm. She knew not to jump on is like a crazed fiend and if she wanted attention she needed to sit calmly. 

Now, I've been a little relaxed in my rules and she sometimes acts like a crazed fiend when I get home from work but she still knows how to calm herself down to get attention. 

You can go read through her 52 weeks thread. She's had some pretty fun adventures in her short little life. 

She is an amazing family dog and she fits well with our crazy clan.


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

Poodlebeguiled, WeKay doesn't do pediatric neutering; I think Arreau was looking at an earlier post in the thread. 

Sugarfoot isn't from WeKay (though he is from a breeder acquaintance of hers), but I had a positive experience with her and was glad to point Molly (and my sister!) in her direction. 

Glad you found a pup! I'll be eagerly looking for updates!

--Q


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## princesspenny (Feb 16, 2015)

Looks like a great breeder- you scored. I'm hoping to get a parti one day so im gonna book mark them  Post lots of pics when you get him. Oh and I think a breeder can know a puppies personality without formal testing. My first breeder did the volkman? testing and my pup is perfect. Second breeder didnt but knew what i wanted and my pup is perfect...so your good either way.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

congratulations on working your way through the thicket of conflicting information out there and finding your puppy. i'm sure you know there's a 52-week thread that is obligatory (heh heh) and that photos are mandatory! looking forward to sharing your joy!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Quossum said:


> Poodlebeguiled, WeKay doesn't do pediatric neutering; I think Arreau was looking at an earlier post in the thread.
> 
> Sugarfoot isn't from WeKay (though he is from a breeder acquaintance of hers), but I had a positive experience with her and was glad to point Molly (and my sister!) in her direction.
> 
> ...


Any friend of Quossum's or sister of Quossum is a friend of mine. So if you know this breeder up close and personal and your sister does and all the rest of it looks good, then it has to be a great score! It's sure nice to see such positive input from puppy buyers and associated puppy buyers in the know. A happy, happy day is on the way. :dancing::dancing2::cheers2:


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## itzmeigh (Apr 28, 2014)

Quossum said:


> Poodlebeguiled, WeKay doesn't do pediatric neutering; I think Arreau was looking at an earlier post in the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's correct. WeKay does a limited registration (you can pay extra for breeding rights at her discretion). She has you sign that you will neuter them. I can't remember what the actual contract said about a time frame. I don't plan to spay Hazel until after her first heat. Wendy hasn't asked me about it and we talk about once a month or so. 


Oh, and Hazel will be your puppy's cousin! KayCee (#4's mom) and Carmen (Hazel's mom) are sisters. I think they are litter mates but they at least have the same parents. I can't wait to see more pictures of him!


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## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

patk said:


> congratulations on working your way through the thicket of conflicting information out there and finding your puppy. i'm sure you know there's a 52-week thread that is obligatory (heh heh) and that photos are mandatory! looking forward to sharing your joy!


I can't think of another time in life that I've felt so frustrated and sad and had that followed so closely by a feeling of being totally supported and cheered on!!! What a really special place this poodle forum is--GEEZ! My husband also is breathing a sigh of relief because I now have someone--other than him--to talk incessantly with about poodles. :act-up:

I have about a million other questions for y'all, about dog training books…car accessories…food…grooming...crates…I am truly clueless.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, ALL for taking such a sincere and generous interest in my journey and sharing my joy in advance. 

The deposit is in the mail and my name now appears on the website next to puppy #4's picture (I'm calling him "Slim"…it's not an official name, because my 12-year-old says NO, but for now, he's Slim).


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

knittingmolly said:


> I can't think of another time in life that I've felt so frustrated and sad and had that followed so closely by a feeling of being totally supported and cheered on!!! What a really special place this poodle forum is--GEEZ! My husband also is breathing a sigh of relief because I now have someone--other than him--to talk incessantly with about poodles. :act-up:
> 
> I have about a million other questions for y'all, about dog training books…car accessories…food…grooming...crates…I am truly clueless.
> 
> ...


Is Slim short for Slim Pickins? After all, it would _seem_ there were slim poodle pickins. You had such a time finding one. And here is your miracle baby! So, it's either got to be Slim or Miracle. lol. Nah...Miracle sounds too girly. I vote for Slim. That's different. It's a cowboy name and masculine. 

Anyhow, training books: Let me jump in on this one for sure. Culture Clash is probably the best book around for understanding dogs...a foundation book for your library. And lots of good training advice based on the way dogs _are. _Avoid Cesar Milan techniques like a schedule 1 drug. Gravitate toward people like Ian Dunbar, Jean Donaldson (Culture Clash), Pat Miller, Patricia McConnell, Kathy Sdao, Sophia Yin (rip)...oh there are loads of great behavior experts out there who have written a lot of good books based on science. I'm sure others here will share their favorites too. In fact, I think somewhere there's a list of books if you do a search. There's a lot online too, like Kiko pup You Tube videos. She's absolutely mahvelous! I know there are more. 

Clippers and all that stuff if you plan to do your own grooming, which I urge you to do...lots of stuff in the grooming forum on that. 

I think there's a thread somewhere about what all people use for keeping their dogs as safe as can be in a car. Some use car harnesses, others crates. Some crates are better than others. I use my regular, molded plastic Vari Kennel crates. It keeps them relatively safe, but I'm sure in a very bad accident...no. 

You are going to have so much fun shopping for new stuff. I would recommend not getting a bed right away because they're expensive and puppies...well, many puppies tend to destroy them fast. Mine thought beds were chew toys. So, I used old towels and blankets for a long time until they finally got over that.

I love my metal ex-pen so when they have to be locked up, at least they have some space and can see out well, have their water and beds in there (now). It's been a life saver. I never used one before in all those years of having dogs. When they were very young puppies, like between 8 weeks and maybe about 12 -16 weeks at least, they sometimes peed in there. So I was worried. They didn't treat it like they did their crates because it was too big. And pee pads were just play things to tear up into a kazillion pieces for my wild bunch. But eventually, on their own, they stopped peeing in there...decided it was their sleeping place and they don't want to pee in it. So, there is that risk of slowing down potty training if you don't use ONLY a crate to lock them up. 

Anyhow, I'm really excited for your arrival and can't wait to see all the stuff you buy! It's so fun to open the wallet and dish out money to these store owners and the Internet shopping...oh my! Don't get me started on what fun that is! lol. 





> My husband also is breathing a sigh of relief because I now have someone--other than him--to talk incessantly with about poodles. :act-up:


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## bookwormjane (Dec 18, 2011)

Blue Willow has some lovely pups right now. I know they do health testing, and do ship on occasion. I read the thread where someone was unhappy with their puppy, but I figure everyone has unhappy customers on occasion.


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## Constance (Jun 4, 2013)

I think your only recourse to search the thread on this site for recommended breeders who ship. Make it simple. If someone knowledgeable and experienced here on Poodle Forum knows a breeder who ships, make personal contact with that member and go for the breeder who ships.

My first puppy was raised with a one year old. A young puppy from a good breeder will have no problem falling in love with a toddler and treating her well, regardless of occasional pushes or silly toddler behavior. Keep in mind, though, that a Standard grows fast. Our big puppy Ginseng did knock our then-two year old over once or twice, and once she hit her head on a file cabinet when the dog bumped into her and she lost her balance, but she was perfectly fine and had no fear at all. Remember, a growing Standard puppy will be frisky; nevertheless, I would not hesitate to sad, Add a Standard Poodle puppy to your family and anticipate a lot of joy. BTW, the day the puppy came home, the puppy and the one year old both got into the hallway coat closet together and snuggled together with the one year old’s blanket.


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## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Is Slim short for Slim Pickins? After all, it would _seem_ there were slim poodle pickins. You had such a time finding one. And here is your miracle baby! So, it's either got to be Slim or Miracle. lol. Nah...Miracle sounds too girly. I vote for Slim. That's different. It's a cowboy name and masculine.
> 
> Anyhow, training books: Let me jump in on this one for sure. Culture Clash is probably the best book around for understanding dogs...a foundation book for your library. And lots of good training advice based on the way dogs _are. _Avoid Cesar Milan techniques like a schedule 1 drug. Gravitate toward people like Ian Dunbar, Jean Donaldson (Culture Clash), Pat Miller, Patricia McConnell, Kathy Sdao, Sophia Yin (rip)...oh there are loads of great behavior experts out there who have written a lot of good books based on science. I'm sure others here will share their favorites too. In fact, I think somewhere there's a list of books if you do a search. There's a lot online too, like Kiko pup You Tube videos. She's absolutely mahvelous! I know there are more.
> 
> ...




This is SUCH good stuff, Poodlebeguiled! I can see that I'm just scratching the surface of all the things there are to explore and learn…overwhelmed, but SO excited too. Thanks for getting me started--I've already started scanning my library's database.

And YES! I love Slim Pickins. AND, I think he should be Slim since he's a Texas doggie and it's a great Cowboy name. I'm also a fan of the name "Al Flosso," which is the name of a legendary magician from the early 20th century. The family-wide name negotiating should be interesting!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Oh, I'm just so excited for you, especially since you had such a discouraging beginning. So, don't hesitate to ask questions if you want to anytime. I know that feeling...over whelmed and happy all at the same time. Not really an altogether bad feeling, is it. And be sure to let us know how things are progressing. And can't wait for pics! Everything will fall into place.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Congratulations, KnittingMolly! I'm thrilled this has all come together for you . Can't wait to see Slim's coming home photos.


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## JenO (Dec 21, 2014)

Congrats on finding a puppy! I also had a heck of a time finding Dipper, was on like 3 waiting lists (waiting to see if there were even enough pups to put down a deposit...) until one day I was looking through an older list of recommendations from this forum and one of the breeders I hadn't checked in awhile was now listing a 9 week old male, and the next thing you know I was driving 5 hours to go get a puppy! 
And funny enough, I just looked at the Wekay website, and their April 3 litter was sired by Dipper's dad, Deacon!
Congrats again


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Constance said:


> I think your only recourse to search the thread on this site for recommended breeders who ship. Make it simple. If someone knowledgeable and experienced here on Poodle Forum knows a breeder who ships, make personal contact with that member and go for the breeder who ships.
> 
> My first puppy was raised with a one year old. A young puppy from a good breeder will have no problem falling in love with a toddler and treating her well, regardless of occasional pushes or silly toddler behavior. Keep in mind, though, that a Standard grows fast. *Our big puppy Ginseng did knock our then-two year old over once or twice, and once she hit her head on a file cabinet when the dog bumped into her and she lost her balance, but she was perfectly fine and had no fear at all. *Remember, a growing Standard puppy will be frisky; nevertheless, I would not hesitate to sad, Add a Standard Poodle puppy to your family and anticipate a lot of joy. BTW, the day the puppy came home, the puppy and the one year old both got into the hallway coat closet together and snuggled together with the one year old’s blanket.


 *Sooooo much joy! Yes.*

*LOL. I can relate to big puppies and toddlers.*


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## DancingBay (Sep 6, 2014)

I've also been searching a while for a standard poodle. My parameters are that I want one on the smaller side and darker color. I finally found a puppy and will be getting him soon.

About RebelStar, she is a breeder of Merit, though I really don't know what that means. She is local to me, so was high on my list. I spent a good deal of time on the phone with her discussing her adults, puppies, testing, and policies. I believe that the reason she s/n her puppies before they leave for their new home is that she doesn't want them to be bred, especially to breed doodles. She feels that once they leave her care, she cannot control what the new owner does. However, I personally don't think it's healthy to s/n that young.

One of the things I really liked about her is that she give a life time guarantee. If you can no longer keep one of her dogs, she will take it back. I doubt she will refund any money unless the puppy is shown to have a genetic problem she tests for, but at least you would know your puppy is going to be well loved/cared for. For a while, I seriously considered getting a puppy from her, but in the end decided against it because of the early s/n and the price.

I want my puppy to grow up and have his growth plates close before neutering him. I went with a breeder, also local to me, who is much more laid back about the time frame for s/n, trusting me to do what I say I'm going to do. My puppy is now 6 weeks old. I will be able to pick him up anytime after 10 weeks. I think that puppies learn so much from the litter in that 6-12 week time frame and it's important for them to stay with the litter a little longer. My boys is one of the males in this group (She's keeping the female). Ziva and Cory pups - 4 weeks old - Anutta Blog. I've asked her to pick best fit for us, so don't know which I'll end up with. I think all these puppies have been placed now.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

Dancing Bay, congratulations. I like your chosen breeder, too. She was on my short list along with Tintlet and Jacknic. I am very happy with my Jacknic pup, as I sure you will be with your Anutta pup. Be sure to let us know which boy you end up with, and post those beloved first day home pictures.


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## loves (Jul 2, 2013)

Ok, didnt' read all the posts, but when I saw the one where you stated you have 10 chickens and cats, well, that is probably the clincher. Will your Spoo be kept separate from the chickens? Will his/her space be fenced? I am understanding why most rescues say no cats/small dogs with Spoos.

Sully fixates on two of our cats. Two he leaves alone. He grew up with them from the age of 8 weeks, but is truly driven to track and watch them, in the house. Many times daily you will hear "SULLY!!! Leave the cat alone! Let go of the cat!" etc. 

As for chickens, oh I am sure he would have fun and there would be dead chickens. What would you do if you Spoo would not leave the chickens alone? Turn him over to a shelter? Return to breeder? Advertise on Craigslist?

My best friend has chickens that free range and dogs. Her Terv is fine if they are also outside with her, but she cannot leave her out alone. Yes, she has lost a couple chickens to the dog. A huge portion of their yard/field area is fenced for the dog for times when nobody will be outside.

A 4H Mom contacted me concerned because their doodle has never bothered their chickens, but a new puppy, mix of some type, has already killed one or two. They have invisible fence for dogs, but chickens aren't collared so they roam into dog area. 

I would bet that is a large part of your problem. Poodle people know how much Spoos love critters. For so many it is in their nature, and one must be ever cautious with a dog with a high prey drive.


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## knittingmolly (Jun 13, 2014)

Thanks for your feedback loves,

Our chickens do sometimes roam the yard currently, but they have their own fenced run and we intend to keep them locked up once we get our new dog. I understand that poodles are retrievers and it would be unfair to expect the dog to NOT pursue the chickens. The cats are a different story, however. I am hopeful that the spoo will grow accustomed to our cats and live with them harmoniously. 

One question: do you think that Sully has a particularly high prey drive (compared with other standards)? When I've spoken to breeders, I've gotten the impression that in any given litter there is a range of drive in their personalities (some dogs who are DRIVEN to get the prey and others who are mellow and happy let it walk right by). 

Do other spoo owners have dogs who live peacefully with their cats or is it commonplace for standards to track and chase kitties through the house?

Also, for those of you who have a calmer/lower-prey drive dog, were his low-prey characteristics apparent when he was a young pup? In other words, what are my odds of finding a dog that will really FIT with harmony in my family?


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## sophie anne (Feb 17, 2015)

knittingmolly said:


> Thanks for your feedback loves,
> 
> Our chickens do sometimes roam the yard currently, but they have their own fenced run and we intend to keep them locked up once we get our new dog. I understand that poodles are retrievers and it would be unfair to expect the dog to NOT pursue the chickens. The cats are a different story, however. I am hopeful that the spoo will grow accustomed to our cats and live with them harmoniously.
> 
> ...


My spoo was raised with a Maine **** and currently lives with a siamese cat. Both cats played with her and had no trouble asserting when they're ready to be done. The current cat lays on her back so that Sophie can lick her stomach.

Sophie is also fine with our cockatiel, which came into the family when she was ~3 yrs old. For the first year or so we had to be extremely careful because she definitely wanted to eat her and would even lay outside the cage, staring and quivering. But now she has completely learned (and old age helps I think) and Piper actually flies and lands on her back to play with her curly poodle hair.

I think Sophie has pretty high drive but is also smart enough to control her urges given enough time to build up self-control. With your puppy you will need to make sure that all of your other animals have a place where they can safely retreat when they are done, and you will have to supervise every interaction early on. My parents always taught me that something my pet does that is terrible, like eating my bird, would be MY fault because I allowed a situation to arise in which it was a possibility.

The only animal Sophie has had consistent trouble with is goats, because she insists on sniffing them way too much and they get annoyed and try to charge her. She is speedy enough to get away but once we realized it was a problem Sophie didn't get to play with the goats anymore!

Also- our neighbor has chickens and Sophie has never seemed inclined to do anything bad even while walking among them and when they come in our yard. YMMV so be careful, but poodles are smart!

If you do your due diligence on the front end, you can have a happy family of many different creatures for years to come


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## itzmeigh (Apr 28, 2014)

We have 2 cats. Max is about 10 years old and Shadow is about 2 years old. Both are indoor only but they do have a "catio" they can use. (The catio is a 5 foot square cage that sits outside one of our windows. The cats access it through a tunnel with a "cat door". That's as outside as they get.)

I will not say that Hazel leaves them alone. She's been with us since 7.5 weeks old and she is now 35 weeks old. Things have gotten MUCH better and I think eventually live harmoniously with the cat but right now she really just wants to terrorize them. Mostly she just annoys them and pokes them with her nose. She has not yet actually picked one up or done more then puppy nips at it. She would like nothing more then for the cats to play with her. 

She is very slowly starting to react less to them. Our oldest cat gave her a pretty telling lesson very early on and she is the most respectful of him. They actually almost play with each other. Our youngest cat is a cry baby and if Hazel gets within 100 feel of him he yawls and cries. You'd think something was eating him. He's gotten better this last week but then Hazel hasn't been show quite as much interest in him either. 

If the cats move with any kind of speed (not happening with Max!) then Hazel almost cat resist the urge to chase them. But again, when she catches them all she really does is puppy bite and poke them with her nose. 

The cats have several places they can go to get out of Hazel's reach and I do not allow her to pester them. 

Hazel is not aggressive with the cats but she is annoying and does pester them. Hazel is also still crated when we are away from home or if she becomes extra annoying.


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## Beaches (Jan 25, 2014)

Our spoo, aged 15 months shares her life with 2 cats and they get along perfectly. Dixie will give chase on occasion but it's a game and the cats aren't worried in the least. When she was younger the cats had plenty of places to go that she couldn't. Should not be an issue.


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## Drala (Aug 14, 2014)

My last spoo loved cats from early on. I don't mean loved as in loved to chase them, but rather enjoyed their aloofness and good manners as compared to other dogs who he often didn't take to.


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## loves (Jul 2, 2013)

Knittingmolly, just think of all the pictures out there and posts about Spoos and their intense interest in squirrels.  Sully gets along with the cats, Orange, his favorite target, loves to wander around living room in the evening right under his nose daring him, and could end those hide and seek games at any time. It is not like he is stuck in the same room with Sully. I think he enjoys tormenting him. As for the other cat/s, Sully can be calm and stand next to them and nose them a bit. Kizzee does get vocal if he is just looked at, and the other two for some reason Sully usually leaves alone. So, he does get along with them, but he is young and gets over zealous with his attentions. 

A Spoo puppy and cats don't worry me. Oh yea, mine are also declawed on the front. Things may be different if Sully had gotten nailed by one once or twice when younger.

If your chickens have their own secure area, then should be ok, but would still introduce him to them. Just don't hold it against him if at some time during his life he catches one. So many people post on chicken pages "OMG my dog killed a chicken, now I have to get rid of him, etc." My 4H mom reported that after the one their new dog, now 4 mos. old, St. Bernard mix, hasn't bothered the chickens since. 

Now rabbits, my Terv has nailed two in our back yard, almost instantly when let out. So I know wild things are not safe. But he doesn't bother our cats, no more than hide and seek.


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