# Question about this clip



## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

Since I am ordering a dryer ( I have been reluctant to trim him without being able to really blow dry him properly) and and have been thinking about what i want to do with Hoolies coat.. I figure I might as well aim high LOL! Looking through all the pictures on the forum i found this one picture that most closely looks like what I have in mind.. I KNOW he has a lot of coat to grow to get here . My question is how short would you cut the coat on the rear ??? I know the jacket area needs to grow as well as his head. Also.. how is it clipped on the neck under the ear ? Im sure it is shorter but how short and how far back ? Right now he looks like he has no neck His hair is way too long there. Also, when i am shaving his neck.. how far down ?? Thanks in advance !


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

oops.. gues I didnt attach the picture!


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

This is my favorite style...it's a "Paris"!!!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

This is a show puppy clip. Exactly what Quincy has. His bum, in front of his tail is SHORT! Scissored short, but almost short enough to see skin. It gradually gets longer as it heads toward his front, with the neck hair about 7" long.


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

This one almost looks more like it has a jacket if you look closely.. I think?? But If I could get him loooking like Quincy.. no problem lOL! 

In the puppy clip I can see that it get longer as you move forward but is there are palce where it gets longer faster... like at the rib where you might trim a Contenintal?? 

I will have to decide which clip I want to try.. and which will work best with his coat.. He doesnt have much neck hair so either will be a long time growing out.


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

Do you have a pic of Quincy I can look at ?? I know you have posted some but dont know where.


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

Oh, I don't really know my clips, by any means! But, I thought maybe it was a Jr. Lion???

Like some pictured here?
http://www.poodlesinaustralia.com/trims.html


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

That is sort of what it looked like to me also but then Im not sure after looking back at the picture. It sort of looks like the brown one in the link you sent also LOL! I dont know which one would be the easiest and look best for the transition to the longer coat.. I will have to give it some thought.


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## lyttleravyn (Jan 12, 2011)

Yup the original picture you posted is the show puppy trim. In the link Skye posted, the Junior Lion does have a distinct jacket, but the picture Feather posted is actually more like the white dog in the center of the last row of trim pictures (it says trim: puppy).

When doing these show style trims, there isn't a set length for each area of the body. You use the hair to manipulate how the viewer sees the dog's body in order to create the 'ideal breed standard.' Does the dog look long in body? Then shorten the hair the rear and/or front line to shorten the appearance of the body. The same thing applies to how far down you clip the V or U on the neck. The shape/depth of where you shave can affect the look of the dog's chest and neck. (I'm not 100% sure if there is a V/U clipped on the show puppy trim look though) Your best bet would be to bathe/brush/fluff dry your poodle, and take pictures of him from all sides while he's in a proper stacked position. This way you can then use the pictures to see overall where he needs trimming. Even blow the pictures up a bit and draw right on them.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Interesting - I have been considering exactly the same Puppy Lion look for Poppy, and was about to ask exactly the same questions! I think I prefer the English PL to the Scandinavian - it is less extreme. Do keep us posted on how it goes.


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

I would say this looks more like a Scandinavian/Second Puppy type trim. If I'm not mistaken, I think that's a Huffish dog. A North American trim is less rounded. 

Flyingduster recently posted a great link to a groomer board discussion of "eurotrims":

Groomers BBS: Extreme Makeover Mini Poodle-Euro style


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

He is a Huffish dog..I think what I like is the more rounded look. i will have to go back to this site and look around more. I had been on that forum and saw that thread..wow! some amazing work! I guess one way or the other I will be trimming the rear a bit and growing out the front... I guess he is likely to look a bit silly for a while growing into this.I don't much like the short neck hair and top knot look with the longer Jacket but it is the only way to get there LOL! who knows, maybe after I bath him and blow dry he will have more h,air than I think  I need to find pics of this clip on a lighter dog so I can see better,


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## partial2poodles (Feb 11, 2010)

Hoolie is most certainly ready for that trim....of course by summer, it will be perfected but he will also need to stay in air conditioning alot with that much coat on his body. I know my Ben HATES it when he is too hot with coat on. But I usually start growing coat all summer for a big grooming show in Sept. So invariably, they do get long, thick and hot.


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

This is Elvis and he is in Scandinavian/Second Puppy just a short one since he is young in this pic.


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

Thanks, I think what i like is that it is the Second Puppy trim... not quite as extreme as the full clip... and of course since Hoolie is still a puppy it will be where we need to go first anyway. Are there and online instructions for this trim ? I know it is always guidelines but would love to know to cut from this point to that ,approx this length etc. I will be doing a search for this and any suggestions will be appreciated. I have a week to consider it.. Ordered a dryer this morning so will have to wait for it before going further.Wish i had some better shears but that will be coming next!


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

There's not really any guidelines that I've found, but here's the general idea:

The "jacket" area; regardless of if it's going to blend or be rather defined, starts around the last rib. It needs to vary for different structures, so I'd start it back closer to the hip bone and move it forwards along the loin until it's nicely in the middle.

The butt; along the top of the hip bones infront of the tail is SHORT SHORT, basically as short as you can go and still keep hair. It's generally scissored cos it blends down into longer thighs, but scissored very short none-the-less. 

Down the back of the back legs is also very very short, flaring out to the hocks.

The sides of the back legs isn't super short, it generally fills out to a half inch or so to round off the thigh, though it blends into super short at the back of the leg, and way longer on the front of the leg... it's sorta the transition area and hard to describe!!!

The front legs need to balance the hair on the back legs so they're of similar size; which could be an inch all around, or 2+ inches all around! the front legs have more hair on the back of them, the back legs have more hair on the front of them; it shortens the visual gap between them, making the body appear shorter! 

The 'tuck up' (the highest part of the belly area when looking at a profile pic) needs to be moved forward on most dogs; so you need to have the hair on the front of the back leg there, and generally have it really short at the back/bottom of the rib cage so that the tuck up is 'centered' more than sitting back at the back leg.

The throat is shaved as far down as their nose is long. Use your hand as a guide to 'measure' how long their nose is; from between their eyes to the end of their nose, and you go that same distance from under the jaw/throat down to generally just below the 'adams apple'. Again, it can vary on the dogs structure!

the sides of the neck, under the ears, is fairly short as it goes into the shaved throat, but it flares out fairly fast into the big neck hair. I'll try taking a pic of under Paris' ears sometime when I groom her to show you, but there's not much that's short cos the shaved throat comes up under the ears too...

The front of the chest, just below the shaved throat needs to be fairly short, but then flares out to a nice rounded chest/shoulder area. This again depends a lot on the structure, with Paris she's DEAD straight fron her throat all the way down her chest to her toes! She has NO chest/shoulder angle! But one of those things about a poodle is that 'proud' chest, so I need to build it in hair for her! lol.

Under the chest needs to be level with the elbow, and the 'line', in profile, from the chest at the front and down between the front legs to the chest & belly needs to be a continuous line; I'm bad at not keeping that line flowing cos I do the chest at the front and then I do the belly and the line doesn't match! haha.

I've gotta go, but really there is no hard and fast rule, it's all down to a lot of tweaking as you go!!!


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

This is just what I wanted to know.. I know it is different for every dog.. just needed a guideline. I have some days to ponder it  Hoolie has not nearly enough chest hair ( and propably not enough chest either! ).. Cut a lot of it off in a previous clip.. so it will have to grow a lot ! I think i will print this out so I can refer to it as I go! Hoolies first groom was the first one I had done in about 8 yrs so this is going to be a stretch for me  I appreciate you taking the time to spell it all out for me!


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

I was playing around with photoshop trying to see what this will look on Hoolie.. I "virtually" shaved some hair and added some hair ( can you tell i am not only obsessed but bored ) To bad I couldnt fluff him up LOL! ell, he doesnt look like "Elvis" but I think it will look ok on him  I hope when I blow dry him his hair puffs up so it looks like that added hair <ggg> So.. what do you think ???How different should this outline be from this ?


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

Ok, my dryer worked fine but I was interrupted so many times his coat wasnt as straight as I would have liked. I also need to a "v" at the base of his tail  Looks silly now. Overall I was not happy with my efforts but is has been a learning experience for both of us.. Hoolie was so much more patient than i though he would be. Im not sure if this is how i will keep hiim for a while but probably.. and i will continue figuring out what i am doing wrong and right LOL!In the pics he has been out in the yard and has wet ankles.. and is curling up as we speak LOL! The damp Ocean air does that! Any comments and suggestions welcomed


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

Wow, for your first attempt at the clip it looks great!!!! I'm at work now so can't do any specific tweaking, but to be honest there doesn't look like much more you can tweak; it looks pretty darn good!! Well done!!! 

Keep at this clip for a while, and develop it and perfect it, and then when you're bored you can try something else. lol!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I really like it - I am already taking notes for Poppy!


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## KalaMama (Nov 20, 2009)

Looks really good to me!! Nice job. Yeah the straighter the hair the better scissoring but he looks great!


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## partial2poodles (Feb 11, 2010)

its looks sensational. After I saw this thread, I decided to put my silver male in that trim and I was googling images. I also need to grow in a lot of hair on that ROUND bubble of a jacket. and I thought he had so much hair on him, but not in the right places. Yours looks wonderful. Ben has such dark tips than where I rounded his bubble jacket, its a blended fur. I like the look of the solid black more. We can keep tweeking together. I cant find a camera to post him with.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I think you did a great job. He looks much slimmer now with his hind end taken in. He was looking a bit hippy/clumbsy in the photo's before you scissored the hind end in. I think that all in all it is a great length.


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

flyingduster said:


> Wow, for your first attempt at the clip it looks great!!!! I'm at work now so can't do any specific tweaking, but to be honest there doesn't look like much more you can tweak; it looks pretty darn good!! Well done!!!
> 
> Keep at this clip for a while, and develop it and perfect it, and then when you're bored you can try something else. lol!


thanks, I am starting to get used to it a bit and like it but certainly see where it can be worked on LOL!


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

partial2poodles said:


> its looks sensational. After I saw this thread, I decided to put my silver male in that trim and I was googling images. I also need to grow in a lot of hair on that ROUND bubble of a jacket. and I thought he had so much hair on him, but not in the right places. Yours looks wonderful. Ben has such dark tips than where I rounded his bubble jacket, its a blended fur. I like the look of the solid black more. We can keep tweeking together. I cant find a camera to post him with.


when you find your camera I would love to see pics I made a few mistakes and took off more hair that I intended in a couple places and did get some stuff even.. I will be tweaking for a long rme!


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