# Being too Nice



## seminolewind (Mar 11, 2016)

My norm in the past was to roll up a newspaper and say "no!" and smack it on my hand. That did the trick. But I find that with this puppy , she is in the "holy terror" stage and "no" means "I'll wait a minute and pick up where I left off".

This morning she was a terror, hubby went shopping, I was trying to sleep, and she shouldn't have gotten free range.

I got up, took her out, and brought her in, filled her Kong and put her in the crate-for the first time. She yelped for about 10 minutes and stopped. Later, she actually went in herself to take a rest. 

I do have to quit being such a pushover. I have scabs all over my arms. I take her outside to do her business, after 15 minutes of nothing, I bring her in and she toilets on the paper even tho she gets a real great treat doing it outside. But just seems to play a lot. 

So, like it or not, she needs some time out (or I do) in the crate (the crate is the largest size and she's 15 pounds). 

Enough me being too flexible. It is not working. Time to reinforce "NO". 

And look for an obedience class. I hope she's old enough now.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

*Puppy needs boundaries, but you can still be nice*

Gosh, I know how exhausting it is to have a puppy. Even today, I was exhausted by all the dogs.

I think you realize you made some mistakes. First, not training her to the crate properly. You need to choose a time when you don't need to sleep, and then drop the filled Kong in the crate and open the door and take it out before she finishes. Let her come out on her own. Build up from there in 5 minute increments. Crate should be made smaller with a divider if you have her in a full-size adult poodle crate. Make it cozy. 

Get that crate training under control so she can be kept in the crate when you're sleeping or not watching her--no free-roaming at this stage! 

The scabs on your arms, as unpleasant as they may be, are part of the land shark phase. I have never bled so much as I did with Maizie nipping! And she wasn't even that bad compared to some puppies! Try to cover up as much skin with clothing.

As for pottying outside, you have to have more patience. At least this is a good time of year, right? Not too cold, not too hot. Stay with her until she potties. Take deep breaths, play with her. The more she plays the more she'll have to potty. Then, big verbal and treat rewards for success. Only after potty let her in. 

Finally, obedience class is a wonderful idea. Look for a puppy social class first, then a puppy obedience class. 

Hang in there!


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

I have a puppy who's about 6 months old now, whom I got when she was about 4 months. I've had to build an extra 15-20 minutes into my morning routine because *I* know she needs to potty every single morning, but she hasn't quite figured it out yet. So every morning it's drag myself (and Archie, since he refuses to be left behind) out of bed, put the dogs on leashes, and wander in circles in their potty area, over and over again, until she pees at least twice and poops at least once (if she gets any less in the morning, she'll potty inside). After a minute or two, even Archie is tired of being out there and he'll start trying to pull me toward the door again. But nope, we have to stay out until the puppy is done.

Anyway, I'm just empathizing. I feel your pain. I feel like I have to discipline myself a lot more than I do the puppy, in that it takes so much self-discipline to deal with her sometimes. I'm always telling her it's lucky she's cute, or she'd never get by.

I wonder if you did potty time on a leash, if that would help? I haven't potty trained with a fenced yard in quite a while, so I'm not sure if it makes a difference.


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## TeamPoodle (Aug 10, 2015)

Whether because you need a break or not, I don't think you could ever go wrong with properly crate training a dog. If you ever want to do performance activities, bring your dog to a groomer, or even travel, the benefits of a dog who settles in a crate are beyond useful. Now, when your dog is still a puppy, is the time to start. There are many great articles out there on how to crate train, here are a few on Dog Star Daily: Crate training | Dog Star Daily


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## Lori G (Sep 19, 2014)

The way we've done potty/crate training is this: until 100% potty trained, the pup is in crate or pen unless under our direct supervision. Pup goes outside to potty immediately each time it comes out of crate. If doesn't potty, take back to crate for a few minutes, then back out to potty. doing it that way, our dog would potty on command, even if it was a little drop at the end of a long walk.


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## seminolewind (Mar 11, 2016)

I'm so glad I have all of your support. Thankyou!. I feel now like everyone has "been there done that".

I think alot has to do with my last dog. He had a seizure disorder and for 11 years, I was emotionally guarding myself from him. I was very guilty over that. Now I just want to love this puppy up. Common sense has gone out the window!.

Okay, I think it's a good idea to put her leash on for potty. We seem to have a problem time between 6pm and 12pm. Lots of energy and most of the slip ups. Tomorrow I'll be crating and having timely opportunities to go out. Tonight she was wild with energy, pooped and peed in the house after being taken out. So she's in the crate with her toys and can see me.


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## sidewinder (Feb 3, 2016)

Yes! Potty on leash is a good idea! My first spoo, Rita, for some reason refused to "go" if she was leashed. In my ignorance, I let her call the shots on this. This dog wanted privacy! She would not go if she was watched. She would hide behind a tree! My next puppy is not getting the chance to pull this one. It's too much of a pain when travelling! and potentially dangerous. Luckily, she had a good recall, because if we pulled over for her to potty, I had to just let her out of the car and let her go into the woods. Otherwise, it was "no go". This lasted her whole life.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

The problem with punishment with potty training is that all it is to a puppy is a human being scary. So to a puppy's little brain, going potty in front of a human is scary. So they often won't go when on a leash. Inside, they'll learn to go in a back room or behind the couch if they've had a history of any kind of punishment associated with going to the bathroom. They'll hold it and not go outside when you're out there watching and wait until they come back in when you're not watching...when it's "safe." Dogs do things or don't do things depending on whether it's "safe" or "dangerous." It's an animal thing. These are some things that can happen, especially with a sensitive Poodle. To them, our kind of punishment is just something that makes them afraid of us and unsure. 

It takes serious management. It's got to be reward or nothing. Always. Extreme supervision and a pleasant time always in association with bathroom duties. A reward (very tasty tid bit of a treat...extra special) immediately upon puppy's finishing going potty. Start pairing a word when your puppy goes potty, like "go potty." Or whatever you choose. Say it softly so as not to interrupt puppy. Wait until the second she finishes and reinforce with positive reinforcement. (lavish praise and a treat) 

No play time when it's potty time. First things first. You want to be able to let her out in the future to just go potty and come right back in. (like if it's raining or you're in a hurry) Walk her around on a leash. Don't use your cue word to elicit the peeing yet. Wait until she's had enough time to make an association...when she's gone a long time with you using the cue word at the same time as peeing. Walk her around on a leash at first so she gets the idea it's not play time, but potty time. THEN you can bring her inside for a couple minutes, THEN outside for some play time. That way she learns there's a time for potty and a time for play. If they get too busy playing, it can take a looooooong time for potty business. Don't forget a high value treat right upon finishing.

If you can't supervise, even for a few seconds, pop her into a crate but only for a while. Only let her have freedom when she's empty but still constant eyes on her. 

If you think she's going too often or something's not quite right, it can be a UTI and a vet check is sometimes in order.

Dogs don't share our morals or our value system. They don't get why they _shouldn't _go in the house...that it wrecks our expensive rugs and offends our sense of smell. The only thing a rolled up newspaper is good for is our own selves for not managing the potty training diligently enough and not to frighten or intimidate the puppy. 

Hang in there. It can take a puppy an _average_ of 6 months to become reliable. Some dogs are never truly house broken. They are just let out enough that they happen to be able to empty themselves outside. But most eventually get onto the idea that outside is really and truly the toilet. If there are lots of accidents inside, they smell that and dogs go where it smells of urine. To them that *IS *the toilet. They're not being defiant or stubborn. It's the correct place to go to their animal way of thinking. In fact, if you take your puppy where there is already the smell of urine outside, changes are better that your puppy will go over that urine. 

Get some Nature's Miracle to clean up accidents. My Poodle puppies took ages to get onto potty training because I wasn't as careful as I have been with past puppies. I let too many accidents happen. That is bad news. Once they start practicing that behavior too much, it's hard to undo. Finally, finally...whew! Something clicked once I started really getting more diligent. It was hard with two puppies at a time. Anyhow, yours will get there too! And just think...your puppy will teach you more and more how to be patient. lol. :amen:


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Another thing that is often advised is to keep a log...at first. Write down everything that goes in your puppy's mouth...when it eats, gets a treat, drinks water. And every time she goes potty or poo...write it down. Was this right after water? Or right after play time in the living room? Was it 15 minutes after eating dinner? Get to know your puppy's schedule, when she typically goes number 1 or number 2. Take your puppy out every hour or more often and after every time she eats, drinks, takes a nap, plays...outside. Write it in your log. Pretty soon, you'll notice a pattern as you observe your log. This is something I've never done. But kept a mental note of. It's a good idea though. It can eliminate some unnecessary trips outside down the road.


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## seminolewind (Mar 11, 2016)

I wouldn't hit or punish a dog. With a newspaper slapped on my thigh or hand it gets her attention immediately. Usually with a NO! 

Today we did right. She was in a pen or crate quite a bit at times. I took her out every2 hours and kept track of what she did, eat, drink, etc. ONE time, she goes out to pee an won't poop. So I give her to my husband for about 15 minutes and told him she needs to poop. Of course when I come back in, she had pood behind him. I have picked up all the potty pads. 

I see with the crate, it's a matter of getting her as well to focus on what she's supposed to learn. Hit and miss is not a way to get my point across, LOL I feel bad, but it's for her own good.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Six months? It took Timi six days. Six days of eye crossing focused attention on her, but still just six days.


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## seminolewind (Mar 11, 2016)

Cross-eyed is an understatement


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

seminolewind said:


> Cross-eyed is an understatement



That is true, but totally worth the sacrifice to have a dog that I can completely trust for the next 15 or so years!


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

seminolewind said:


> I'm so glad I have all of your support. Thankyou!. I feel now like everyone has "been there done that".
> 
> I think alot has to do with my last dog. He had a seizure disorder and for 11 years, I was emotionally guarding myself from him. I was very guilty over that. Now I just want to love this puppy up. Common sense has gone out the window!.
> 
> Okay, I think it's a good idea to put her leash on for potty. We seem to have a problem time between 6pm and 12pm. Lots of energy and most of the slip ups. Tomorrow I'll be crating and having timely opportunities to go out. Tonight she was wild with energy, pooped and peed in the house after being taken out. So she's in the crate with her toys and can see me.



YES! I think you'll find putting her on a leash to potty will help. It won't allow her to have free reign to do whatever she wants. And also wanted to say, you're doing great! Hang in there. Things WILL get better.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

seminolewind said:


> I wouldn't hit or punish a dog. With a newspaper slapped on my thigh or hand it gets her attention immediately. Usually with a NO!
> 
> Today we did right. She was in a pen or crate quite a bit at times. I took her out every2 hours and kept track of what she did, eat, drink, etc. ONE time, she goes out to pee an won't poop. So I give her to my husband for about 15 minutes and told him she needs to poop. Of course when I come back in, she had pood behind him. I have picked up all the potty pads.
> 
> I see with the crate, it's a matter of getting her as well to focus on what she's supposed to learn. Hit and miss is not a way to get my point across, LOL I feel bad, but it's for her own good.


Oh lol. I didn't get the impression you hit your dog. And it all depends how sensitive a pup is in how they perceive things. I usually clapped my hands enough to get their attention, but not enough to startle them too much or frighten and then cheerfully show them to come to the door._ "Come on..come on, quick, quick, quick."_ in a high pitched, staccato voice. (tends to make them hurry more) _"Outside we go."_ 

They all vary in how they get onto it. I've had dogs learn very quickly and others longer. An eight week old puppy doesn't even feel it coming and has no control over his bladder for a time. You're basically getting him into a pattern and getting him outside before he goes in the house. An older puppy (12 weeks or older) is the age where real potty training takes place, as they are physically ready... if they don't come with dirty puppy syndrome as one of my Chihuahuas did. The puppy wasn't taken outside to go potty and there was no showing puppy a connection between outside and eliminating. Here are a few things that I think are good:

Where?s the Potty? How to House Train Your Puppy | Karen Pryor Clicker Training

Tips for How to Housetraining Your Puppy


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

I feel your pain . Hang in there and it gets better!!!

It takes time and much patience.

I forgot how old your pup was, but as someone stated puppies bladders aren't really ready before 12 weeks.

My pup was basically housebroken by 4 or 5 months with the occasional accident until a year.

I gave her the run of the house by 5 months which was fine for housebreaking, but not for chewing. 

CAUTION to those who give a housebroken dog before a year or so free reign of the house. They still chew things they shouldn't, be careful!

I know it is exhausting.... but the reward is worth all the exhaustion .People who don't putthe time and energy into housebreaking probably will never have a dog they can really trust. Sounds like you are off to a great start and are working really hard to give your pup the skills needed for housebreaking.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

mom2Zoe said:


> I feel your pain . Hang in there and it gets better!!!
> 
> It takes time and much patience.
> 
> ...



Oh absolutely - I trusted Timi on the housebreaking within a couple of weeks, but she was crated when nobody was home until she was well over a year old.
Kleenex still isn't safe around her lol!


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

mom2Zoe said:


> I feel your pain . Hang in there and it gets better!!!
> 
> It takes time and much patience.
> 
> ...




Great post! And same here. Remembering back, my dogs were completely housebroken within a few months. Accidents were pretty rare with my dogs, except for Trina. With her, because of her seizures, she didn't always have bladder control. Even though she was housebroken, she would lose it frequently when she was having a seizure. When we had to give her rectal Valium to help stop the seizing, she would also sometimes ( not always) lose control of her bowels. Then, even when she wasn't in seizure mode, she got it in her head that it was just easier to go potty in the house. So we had to go back to the basics of housebreaking with her. Overall though, she did really good, and would usually wait until I got home and let her out.


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