# RMBs for teeth



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I do not feed raw, but we have been giving the dogs raw marrow beef bones for their teeth. They are working wonders. Holly's teeth were getting gross after mothering her litters, and we were entertaining the idea of having her teeth cleaned, Started the bones and now it is not necessary.

We give them a fresh bone and once they begin losing interest we toss those and start again.

We are lucky living in the country. We have butcher shops, slaughter houses and abattoirs around so we are able to get a small cardboard box full for $5.00.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Is she a powerful chewer? As a general rule, avoid weight bearing bones, as these have been known to shatter. Having said that, I have occasionally given mine lamb knuckle bones, knowing there is no way their jaws are powerful enough to crush them.

I feed RMB every third meal or so - chicken wings mainly, with occasionally a pork or lamb rib, or bones from something I am preparing for myself (bones are always raw, of course!). Mine get them as a meal, rather than recreational bones. And yes, I do clean their teeth, and use PlaqueOff and other aids - with toy dogs getting and keeping teeth clean is a constant battle!


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

I would avoid marrow bones. I have never purchased these because of the personal stories I have heard of major dental work and pain when a dog breaks a tooth.

Even KB's as good as they look can break teeth. I do give my poms KB's from time to time (maybe 4 times in the last 12 months) but of course they are as big as their head so they are safe from breakage. Suri I cannot give weight bearing bones. She is a CHOMPER. She can crush a chicken leg in one bite! 

Pork ribs, butts and shanks are good bone to chew on. Just cover their poms/lower legs even dogs that wont touch the meat much like Olie gets the oil all over his hair on the legs. 

I do have not been brushing much while on Raw, and the Vet loves their teeth, however there are still some areas that I am going to start focusing on with with all the dogs that I am seeing that still need attention. So for me, I would say still brush from time to time.


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## Trixie (Apr 13, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

You couldn't pay me to feed my dogs a marrow bone, but that's just me. IMO, it's not worth the risk of a broken tooth when chicken backs, chicken quarters, pork ribs, turkey necks etc. can all be fed safely (and are fully edible).

You might find this helpful, Trixie: right now one of my dogs is eating a mixture of kibble and raw. I give him a chicken back for dinner a few nights a week and it is already starting to slowly break apart the tartar on his back teeth. I have started feeding him more raw than kibble (pre-made, RMBs + some kibble, and eventually will go full raw like the other doggies I feed, but my point is that you CAN supplement with RMBs a few days a week.)

I would say (don't quote me  ) that up to 20 or 30% of the diet could be RMBs. 

And personally, I'd go for the softer, edible RMBs (like those I described above) before I'd ever feed a "rec" bone - AKA "WRECK" bone (marrow bone) that can and will break teeth.

ETA: I feed prey model raw to two of my poodles. I don't brush their teeth at all and they don't have a spec of tarter. They *DID* have tarter before I fed raw.


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## Trixie (Apr 13, 2011)

Thanks Chocolate Millie, that was really helpful! I'm especially concerned about her teeth because she's had them cleaned professionally before ( she lived with my grandma while I was studying abroad while in grad school for 1 year and she neglected her teeth) I'm really interested in going completely raw but my husband and I will try to start our family soon and I don't really feel comfortable feeding raw while pregnant so we'll probably postpone that. 

I feel kind of silly (and sorry if this is a stupid question) but can you please say the specific bones I should stay away from? I cannot figure what marrow bone is in German so I'm afraid if the butcher offers me something I'll just accept without knowing it's bad. Knowing the type of meat or part of animal would allow me to figure it out more easily. Thanks!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

It is wisest to avoid weight bearing bones - so leg bones can be potentially dangerous. Marrow bones are - as far as I know! - the shin bone (tibia) of cattle, but I tend to use only ribs, spines, necks, wings and tails from larger animals and birds.

I've found that bones with meat and sinew are the best for teeth cleaning - the dogs tug at them as well as chewing, and the sinews act as dental floss.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

PROOF of the wonders of edible, raw meaty bones!

Dog #1: 1.5 years old. Prey Model Raw fed for 6.5 months.

Dog #2: 3 years old. Prey Model Raw fed for 6.5 months. When he was eating kibble, just 6.5 months ago (at the age of 2.5 years), his molars were covered in plaque.

Dog #3: 7 months old. Kibble fed for 7 months. Notice the plaque forming on his rear carnassial molars. (I have only owned him for 2.5 weeks. I have begun to add raw to his diet, including raw chicken backs for dental benefits, and plan to switch him to Prey Model Raw as soon as possible. I will take more photos of him in a few months after he has been eating RMBs on a consistent basis).


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Trixie said:


> Thanks Chocolate Millie, that was really helpful! I'm especially concerned about her teeth because she's had them cleaned professionally before ( she lived with my grandma while I was studying abroad while in grad school for 1 year and she neglected her teeth) I'm really interested in going completely raw but my husband and I will try to start our family soon and I don't really feel comfortable feeding raw while pregnant so we'll probably postpone that.
> 
> I feel kind of silly (and sorry if this is a stupid question) but can you please say the specific bones I should stay away from? I cannot figure what marrow bone is in German so I'm afraid if the butcher offers me something I'll just accept without knowing it's bad. Knowing the type of meat or part of animal would allow me to figure it out more easily. Thanks!


What FJM said. Any weight bearing bone from large mammals should be avoided. No marrow bones, soup bones, femurs, tibias, etc. 

Bones that are soft and edible include: all chicken bones, turkey necks, pork ribs, lamb ribs, oh gosh, surely many others but these are all that I feed.

Beef ribs make nice rec bones that don't "wreck." They are not always edible, depending on the dog, but provide a good cheew.


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## Trixie (Apr 13, 2011)

fjm said:


> It is wisest to avoid weight bearing bones - so leg bones can be potentially dangerous. Marrow bones are - as far as I know! - the shin bone (tibia) of cattle, but I tend to use only ribs, spines, necks, wings and tails from larger animals and birds.
> 
> I've found that bones with meat and sinew are the best for teeth cleaning - the dogs tug at them as well as chewing, and the sinews act as dental floss.


Thank you or the information, fjm!


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## Trixie (Apr 13, 2011)

ChocolateMillie said:


> What FJM said. Any weight bearing bone from large mammals should be avoided. No marrow bones, soup bones, femurs, tibias, etc.
> 
> Bones that are soft and edible include: all chicken bones, turkey necks, pork ribs, lamb ribs, oh gosh, surely many others but these are all that I feed.
> 
> Beef ribs make nice rec bones that don't "wreck." They are not always edible, depending on the dog, but provide a good cheew.


Thanks for sharing! I'm absolutely amazed at the difference between your dogs' teeth! I'm definitely going to try this and (hopefully) eventually move to a complete raw diet. I'm sure she will much prefer some raw bones once in a while as opposed to having her teeth brushed ever day.


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## Liafast (Apr 9, 2011)

*Great Teeth*

I feed my spoo's chicken leg quarters and their teeth are super white. I do not have to brush or scale their teeth.


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Mine is a 16-month-old miniature. I feed him RMB 2-3 meals per week, and BARF other times. I started him with chicken necks, chicken feet and then moved to chicken wings, turkey necks and then oxtails (the smaller cut near the tip) and then chicken backs and then lamb ribs. I still brush his teeth every night but more as a bonding strategy. His teeth are super white and both of his vets are happy about what I have done for my boy.


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

I'm late to the party on this thread, but I think it needs mentioning that it can be easy to over-estimate the benefits of RMB's on teeth whilst, at the same time, under-estimating the detrimental effects of feeding anything but raw.

If people could see the immediate and lasting dental effect of eating crisps and corn snacks, they would probably think far more carefully before eating them.

In dental terms, giving you dog kibble is like giving you kids Monster Munch.

RMB's are the appropriate food for your dog, and anything else is inappropriate.

Just an opinion, of course.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I agree that raw is the optimal diet; I feed commercial raw. I do think for a variety of reasons many people are unwilling or unable to do so. It is expensive, it can be time consuming and some people simply don't have the freezer space. Many are afraid they will not balance things correctly and don't want their dog to have a nutritional deficiency. Supplementing a dog's regular diet with raw meaty bones is a great way to improve your dogs overall health and the dental benefits are obvious to see. It is also a great way to ease into raw. Not all kibbles are crap. I think it is like a human diet. Lots of raw veggies and just a little meat is the way to go but few of us eat that way.


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## Pluto (Jul 8, 2012)

Rather then risk a RMB vs kibble diet argument, I will just throw another shout out for successfully blending the two. With our previouse mpoo we fed a high quality kibble 6 days a week, and he would get a chicken wing or neck on the 7th ( no kibble). It balanced convinence ( prep time, cleaning of dog and surfaces) during the week, with a treat that he throughly enjoyed and helped keep his teeth in good condition. I was, and am still not, prepared to balance my dogs diet on my own. And am glad that there are so many commercially avaliable kibbles. 

I have not started our spoo on bones as of yet, similarly due to the convinence factor, but will likely in the future.


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

CT Girl said:


> I agree that raw is the optimal diet; I feed commercial raw. I do think for a variety of reasons many people are unwilling or unable to do so. It is expensive, it can be time consuming and some people simply don't have the freezer space. Many are afraid they will not balance things correctly and don't want their dog to have a nutritional deficiency. Supplementing a dog's regular diet with raw meaty bones is a great way to improve your dogs overall health and the dental benefits are obvious to see. It is also a great way to ease into raw. Not all kibbles are crap. I think it is like a human diet. Lots of raw veggies and just a little meat is the way to go but few of us eat that way.


What I don't understand is why kibble? There might be some that are not based primarily on profit for large businesses, but why take that chance? Supermarket shelves are full of things to feed a dog: eggs, cottage cheese, chickens, hearts, etc., so choosing something as weird as kibble seems... well... odd.

I do like the general feel of your post but "lots of raw veggies and a little meat" sounds a terrible dog diet to me. I prefer the sound of it the other way around, but I understand that we all have different opinions. I do respect that but, at the same time, I do note the dog's dental and jaw structur.


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

Pluto said:


> Rather then risk a RMB vs kibble diet argument, I will just throw another shout out for successfully blending the two. With our previouse mpoo we fed a high quality kibble 6 days a week, and he would get a chicken wing or neck on the 7th ( no kibble). It balanced convinence ( prep time, cleaning of dog and surfaces) during the week, with a treat that he throughly enjoyed and helped keep his teeth in good condition. I was, and am still not, prepared to balance my dogs diet on my own. And am glad that there are so many commercially avaliable kibbles.
> 
> I have not started our spoo on bones as of yet, similarly due to the convinence factor, but will likely in the future.


With the greatest of respect, the bone (wing or neck) _might_ have knocked a very small amount of plague from your dog's teeth, if you were lucky, once a week, but the point is that kibble (even so called high quality ones) are the worst thing for piling plague onto teeth. So already you can regard kibble as a poor way to provide your dog a balanced diet. Balanced would mean that it would (at the very least) not damage your dog's teeth.

When it comes to being able to offer your dog a balanced diet, you could decide to feed only a mix of chicken wings and cottage cheese this week, and then chicken wings and tripe the next week, followed by lamb and chicken liver the following week, and completing the month with turkey necks and yoghurt. At the end of that month, you would have avoided kibble and your dog would have experienced true variety compared to, for instance, feeding Taste of the Wild every single day apart from the wing day.

As with my other post, I can understand the convenience of kibble in the same way as I can understand the convenience of MacDonalds drive-thru for kids.

I can understand that switching to raw is daunting, but your dog does not require balanced meals; it requires a balanced diet (and that does not mean it must contain everything).


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## bura4 (Jul 25, 2010)

I used to have the same standpoint as some of you here - I believed in the raw diet and advocated it no matter what. Unfortunatelly my boy taught me some, no, a lot of, humility. I tried raw with him, several times, and every time it ended badly. It sadly happens that he is allergic to most meats I CAN get and will not sniff those he can have except for lamb and pork. And his diet must not consist of only these. I mean it did, but I noticed his skin & coat deteriorated. I tried to make him eat things like rabbit, pidgeon, deer and other meats he can eat but unfortunatelly even a 4 day fast will not convince him these are edible. So I decided to stop fighting with him and just got him a decent quality rabbit & rice kibble, and I supplement with raw meaty bones every once in a while. And he finally gained some weight. We use kibble as training treats and he works for it beautifully. I guess I just have to accept the fact that raw is simply not for him. The bones I give him are pork breastbones - not very hard but enough to keep his teeth clean!


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