# Stud Dog - What's the best way to communicate and negotiate contract with stud owner?



## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

What is the best way to contact/communicate with a potential stud dog owner without looking like a total idget? I take it, it is best to contact them by phone as opposed by email? What should I expect? What seems like a fair or avg stud fee as I would want the pick pup for myself to show? What is considered fair in a stud contract, and what are things I should avoid or be cautious of? I have a few Im thinking about and altho Im leaning towards one, just not sure if he is the right choice.. Thanks guys .


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I don't know about the US, but in the UK the usual fee is around the price of a puppy - more for an outstanding dog, of course. Once upon a time the stud owner would provide a free service at the next season if the bitch missed, but I think that is now uncommon here.


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## farleysd (Apr 18, 2011)

Stud fee's can vary according to the location of the stud dog. It is not uncommon to charge the price of a puppy, but in different parts of the country the price of puppies vary. I find it common to see stud fee's from 1500 to 2500 or even more. Frozen semen stud fee's much higher.

Be up front, tell the stud dog owner you are new to this,,,, WE ALL had to learn at one time or another. Most people are easy and willing to help you out.
Most breeders I know will give a repeat breeding, free of charge, if the breeding did not take, many will offer a repeat if there were not a reasonable amount of live puppies born, some will say live at 8 weeks of age. I have seen contracts stating from 1 to 3 live puppies. Breeding's from frozen semen seldom offer a repeat breeding.

It is normally the responsibility of the bitch owner to transfer the bitch to the stud dog. All cost are in addition to the stud fee.

Many stud owners will not charge an airport pick up fee, some do. Some stud owners will charge boarding fee's after 7 days. Don't forget to get a health certificate if you are flying. Most are good for 10 days, if for some reason the breeding takes longer than 10 days it is the owner of the bitch to pay for a second health certificate to fly the girl back home.

It is a good idea for the owner of the bitch to have progesterone testing to pin point a better estimate date of breeding. Some bitches breed around day 10, my particular line breeds closer to day 17 and sometimes as late as day 20.

Testing on the stud dog should be complete prior to breeding.

I think I have hit most points, hope this give some idea.

Terry
Farleys D Standard
"One must first build a house before painting it!"


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## farleysd (Apr 18, 2011)

One other point that I forgot, at times an "AI" (artificial insemination) might be required. Discuss this point, will it be done by the stud dog's vet or will the stud dog owner do the procedure. I normally will do the "AI", myself, have only had one person request for a vet to do the AI. Cost associated with an AI is also the responsibility of the owner of the girl.

Terry


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Thanks Terry!


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks Terry 
you have been very informative. I have talked to the breeder of said stud dog, but the dog lives with the coowner/co-breeder. She is the one that initially suggested said stud.. I told her that it was going to be a year or two as I still needed to OFA her and have her re-CERFd.. Oh and I wanted to finish her Grand lol.

What does Available by private treaty normally entail? Thanks!


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## Jacknic (Sep 14, 2010)

> I find it common to see stud fee's from 1500 to 2500 or even more.


Terry, are stud fees this high for toys and mini's? 
If you are looking for a "show dog" then I hope you are looking at champion titled dogs.
I would suggest you know what qualities it is that you would like to improve on your bitch, and ask if the stud can fix these issues. Most breeders are honest about such things. You should have already ran test pedigrees and know what the Coi is, and what about health testing, some breeders require everything and some very little? Also some breeders have strict requirements on how puppies are sold and do not want puppies sold with full registration, as a new breeder it would be wise to keep the puppy you pick and sell the remainder as "pets only." Experience buyers can be very crafty and outwit a new breeder in a minute, it would be awful for you to have one of your precious babies end up in a very bad situation, even if you like the person you are selling to, once that pup is out the door they can sell it to anyone with breeding rights.


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## Jacknic (Sep 14, 2010)

> What does Available by private treaty normally entail?


Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I have always taken that to mean the dog is not open to public stud, and if approved, the stud agreement could be different for different people. I think it is a very professional way to ward off inexpereinced breeders. If there is something in the stud contract you don't like don't be afraid to ask if it can be revised, (such as repeat breeding, or how many puppies constitues a litter) the stud owner can say "NO" and you can say, "OK" but if they are offended that would be someone I would not want to deal with.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Jacknic said:


> Terry, are stud fees this high for toys and mini's?
> If you are looking for a "show dog" then I hope you are looking at champion titled dogs.
> I would suggest you know what qualities it is that you would like to improve on your bitch, and ask if the stud can fix these issues. Most breeders are honest about such things. You should have already ran test pedigrees and know what the Coi is, and what about health testing, some breeders require everything and some very little? Also some breeders have strict requirements on how puppies are sold and do not want puppies sold with full registration, as a new breeder it would be wise to keep the puppy you pick and sell the remainder as "pets only." Experience buyers can be very crafty and outwit a new breeder in a minute, it would be awful for you to have one of your precious babies end up in a very bad situation, even if you like the person you are selling to, once that pup is out the door they can sell it to anyone with breeding rights.


As far as stud fees on minis.. I have seen the stud fees as low as 500 but for this dog I think its at least 3x that much. 

Im aiming pretty high lol. The dog Im looking at is a Top producer, GCH BIS MSBIS Group winning CH . My bitch doesnt have those qualifications lol, she is an AKC/UKC CH.. needs 3 wins over CH to get her GCH..., but in her first litter and only litter.. Her Daughter at 6mons acquired both back to back majors, and is currently working on her GCH. Her son flew thru his AKC and CKC Ch.. He was undefeated from the classes with all majors, finishing with a Group 1 and 2 win he has been competing in less shows and less time than mom and only needs one or two wins to get his GCH. I am excited about this potential breeding and hope it goes thru!

I was fortunate enough to meet the breeder/ co-owner of the stud dog at a dog show last year. I had met the owner of one of the studs pups who introduced me to the breeder. I mentioned I was looking for a stud for my bitch and if she had any rec. SHe was kind enough to evaluate my bitch and teach me a thing or two.. a very nice lady. She mentioned a few but ultimately felt said stud dog would help correct where she was lacking.

As far as COI it would be 2.83% for a 10 gen and 4.53% for a 12 gen . For health testing I believe it was Hips knees and eyes min that they are interested in.. I think Brucellosis also. Ill be doing elbows, hip, knees, legg calve perthes, and reCERF.. she's PRA clear by parentage. I am doing agility with her next.

I am a bit torn on what to do with my pet pups. I think pups should be a min 6mons to a year before getting snipped, but I dont want them to be used by someone as a breeding machine.. you know. I have people that I would trust with a dog no problem, but people I dont know.. well Im not very trusting. And with all the talk lately of people taking limited registration and just registrating them with somewhere else and still breeding them.. and some people saying stuff like oh they will never know kinda stuff. Well I wouldnt be comfortable letting a pup leave my household and not be neutered. Yeah your right I wouldnt want any of my pups ending up in a bad situation. All my pups would be chipped and have my info just in case..


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Jacknic said:


> Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I have always taken that to mean the dog is not open to public stud, and if approved, the stud agreement could be different for different people. I think it is a very professional way to ward off inexpereinced breeders. If there is something in the stud contract you don't like don't be afraid to ask if it can be revised, (such as repeat breeding, or how many puppies constitues a litter) the stud owner can say "NO" and you can say, "OK" but if they are offended that would be someone I would not want to deal with.


See now Im confused.. I have seen some say Not open to public stud.. to me that means.. Yes he is very pretty/great but for whatever reason Im not letting anyone breed to him.. at least right now. I thought privte treaty meant there will be a strict contract, which Im not afraid of as long as its fair to both parties. I have been told for example one breeder would not allow any pups produced not kept to not be sold unless it were to pet homes only.. That to me is fair, as they dont want their lines they have worked so hard for to be used nilly willy.. I can respect that. But again I could be wrong and off beat here.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Private treaty means exactly that Ladyscarletthawk, it means that the stud dog owner has a stringent contract that you must be willing to accept (stud fee, and any other stipulations,Brucellosis test prior to breeding, vet check, AI ect.) for whatever reason you aren't able to agree to their contract than they may reserve the right to turn you away

(this is what I've always heard/been told about private treaties)


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Keithsomething said:


> Private treaty means exactly that Ladyscarletthawk, it means that the stud dog owner has a stringent contract that you must be willing to accept (stud fee, and any other stipulations,Brucellosis test prior to breeding, vet check, AI ect.) for whatever reason you aren't able to agree to their contract than they may reserve the right to turn you away
> 
> (this is what I've always heard/been told about private treaties)


Thanks Keithsomething,
That is what I thought but was unsure. Thanks for clarifying.


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