# Breeders and Genetic Diversity



## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

SA is one of the worst health problems in standard poodles. I am so sorry that you had to deal with this. Unfortunately, in spite of quite a bit of research, the genes that cause this have not been identified. The issues are complex with no easy answer. 

Natalie Tessier (owner of Poodles de Grenier) is one of the authors of "The effect of genetic bottlenecks and inbreeding on the incidence of two major autoimmune diseases in standard poodles, sebaceous adenitis and Addison’s disease." This paper presents the most comprehensive research on the issue to date. You can read it here:

https://cgejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40575-015-0026-5


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## angiefurst (May 24, 2018)

Thank you for your link. Dillon is the one that's suffered - he itches, his eyes have problems, but inspire of it all he still holds his tail high.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Here's another interesting article -- Jean Lyle of Wycliffe Kennels explaining how she bred only 5 dogs and their offspring -- with NO outside genetics -- for 35 years. This is what produced standard poodles as we know them today. Today standard poodles from show lines typically contain more than 50% of their genetic make up from these 5 dogs.

http://nrbreedersassociation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/VaccinationsBloatSeizuresDistemper.pdf

Here are a couple of excerpts from the Lyle's article.

"I have a full 35 years experience with only one successful Standard Poodle family. I have consistently line-bred, inbred (with severe culling as required to keep the line free of such hereditary faults as appeared), on this same family which for me started with only five closely related individuals – two bitches and three dogs. In the intervening years nothing has been added to these five by outcrosses, so my present-day dogs have a very high coefficient of inbreeding, being perhaps the most inbred line of dogs in the world."

"Beginning in 1952, my start in Standard Poodles was almost fairy tale in its success. Every litter had in it several champions. The personality was excellent. The dogs were very healthy. They were very fertile. Slowly they grew larger, and matured physically and sexually later than they had when they were smaller. The high quality continued when I bred youngsters to their sire or dam, when I inbred half-brothers and sisters, and cousin to cousin."


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## angiefurst (May 24, 2018)

The article is about bloat and stained teeth which are not autoimmune diseases. Epilepsy may and may not be. My standard's pedigree shows a link to the Wycliff line. Dillons genetic testing shows significant inbreeding. S.A. and Addison's are true AUTOIMMUNE diseases that REQUIRE BOTH SIRE AND DAM TO CARRY THE GENE. 

I appreciate Ms. Lyles work in developing beautiful and quality poodles - however continued line breeding causes serious problems. It should not be done. I believe the American Kennel Club is currently looking into this matter and hopefully all breeders will use DNA technology to product healthier offspring.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

angiefurst said:


> The article is about bloat and stained teeth which are not autoimmune diseases. Epilepsy may and may not be. My standard's pedigree shows a link to the Wycliff line. Dillons genetic testing shows significant inbreeding. S.A. and Addison's are true AUTOIMMUNE diseases that REQUIRE BOTH SIRE AND DAM TO CARRY THE GENE.
> 
> I appreciate Ms. Lyles work in developing beautiful and quality poodles - however continued line breeding causes serious problems. It should not be done. I believe the American Kennel Club is currently looking into this matter and hopefully all breeders will use DNA technology to product healthier offspring.


The thing that I thought was interesting about the Lyle article is that it shows the background to the inbreeding that is now thought to have played a role in introducing SA and Addison's into the breed.

The conclusions of the Pedersen et. al. paper (link in post #2 above) are:

"We demonstrated that the incidence of both Addison’s disease and sebaceous adenitis in Standard Poodles increased as a result of an artificial genetic bottleneck involving a small group of show-winning founders from the mid-twentieth century. This bottleneck led to inbreeding over two decades with the results that 50–60 % of an average Standard Poodles ancestry can be traced to a few lines. We conclude that a number of ancestral traits associated with autoimmunity, some common to both SA and AD and some unique to each, were concentrated by inadvertent positive selection during close linebreeding for show winning form."

No SA or Addison's gene has been found. So the exact mode of inheritance is unknown. There is no way of knowing whether the sire or the dam carry "the gene" or even whether there is only one SA gene. It is possible that the disease is caused by many genes.

I agree that Jean Lyle produced beautiful poodles. But unfortunately she also played a significant role in introducing some of the worst autoimmune diseases that we now struggle with.

I do agree with you that the new DNA diversity test is a positive development. But this is a very difficult problem with no easy answers.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Several Spoo breeder members here use the UCD test. It was developed for Spoos first, as I'm sure you know, and it appears the Mpoo test is now available, with research begun for Toys https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/dog.php#StdPoodle .


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## angiefurst (May 24, 2018)

Absolutely! The problem doesn't show up for many generations. I truly believe that Jean Lyle did a wonderful job of breeding show winning standards, but when she was working on her breeding program she did not have the knowledge that science does today. It's a shame really. 

Dillon's U.C. Davies report shows very little genetic diversity and he is a prime example of the poodle bottleneck mentioned in the report. He was neutered immediately after he was diagnosed. I never bred him, thank goodness.

I had decided not to get another Standard because of Dillon's S.A. Once you deal with S.A. in your pet, you never want to take a chance of having another standard that may have the disease. The new U.C. Diversity Testing is the answer. I believe I can own another Standard if their DNA is diverse. I know that all the testing breeders must do is expensive - but I'll gladly pay more to have this test done.

On another note - I didn't know about the problem in toys. I bought a toy 4 years ago (Bella) believing it was rare in Toys. Is it now a problem???


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

A number of breeders are now using the VGL test from UC Davis AND the tools from Betterbred to produce diverse but typey standards. The research indicates that the more diverse a dog the lower the chances of SA but they never did find a gene or genes that caused it only a Halotype that may affect the possibility of it happening. Not the answers folks were looking for.


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