# Invisible fence fear, anyone?



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Tiny dogs are way too sensitive for electric fences IMO! I've heard only about dogs being so scared of the associated 'pain' they never want to go in the yard!!! Both Poodles and Maltese have softer/sensitive personalities. Also an electric fence may keep your dog in the yard, but it's not going to stop a stray from getting in and attacking your little ones that look like 'prey'. I just DON"T have confidence that electric fences are harmless!!! 
To each their own...............JMO!!!!


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

We have an invisible fence , Zoe is fearful to go near the borders , but she learned quickly and i have not had a problem. 

The only problem I had was a few months ago when somebody came to the front door, she ran out and off the property after being zapped.I had to chase her because she got scared from the zap. It is also on the lowest voltage which was not raised because she is very obedient.{ the voltage has to do with obedience and size} I generally hold her to go off property , but I guess that one time she got distracted. We also hang out more in the back so she really knows those boundaries and would never try to leave even with distractions.
I would just keep playing with them outside until they get more comfortable and after that offer distractions so they really understand the boundaries.

My doors are constantly open and now i can relax having the electric fence.

Zoe learned within 2 weeks where she could and could not go.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

is there a reason a visible fence is not possible?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

patk I had the same thought. I know some HOAs don't allow fences, but as Molly said invisible fence doesn't do anything to keep predators away.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

I agree with Mollymui about not keeping the animals out. I never leave her in the yard unsupervised even for a minute.
I never heard of little dogs being sensitive , I did not have any problems. My friend with two Maltese has one as well.
We could not put up a fence as i wanted however, a fence would not protect her from leaving the front door as the electric fence does. Even though we had that one mishap the kids leave the doors open all the time and the electric fence gives me peace of mind.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Actually even with my 6 foot high vinyl fence I don't leave my dogs out on their own for very long either. I worry about someone coming in the yard and taking them. I also have to watch for the meter reader getting cornered if he doesn't check with us before coming around the back.


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## Ohboyohboy (Oct 31, 2014)

The neighborhood allows fences but no one on our block has one and we wanted to keep our backyard sight lines open. The neighborhood did build a long fence to separate our yards from the yards of the block behind us. For keeping out predators, I've heard real fences aren't much of an obstacle for foxes and the like who can climb/jump. We always monitor the dogs in the yard, and got the fence so they can run off leash. 

I also was not too keen on the idea of zapping the dogs, but I've known a handful of people with small/toy breeds who loved their invisible fences. It truly is a very mild zap (for me, it was painless, just a sort of buzzing I wanted to stop) that they won't ever feel once they learn the boundaries. That said, my pups are turning out to be more sensitive than the dogs of anyone I had spoken to about the fence. I hope they grow confidence soon when wearing the invisible fence collar (we're 10 days into training)! @mom2zoe, I'm glad to hear Zoe is doing well with it. And that's scary she ran past it once, I'm glad you got her!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

My fence is vinyl so there is nothing to dig claws into to climb it. A few weeks ago a cat came in under the one gate where we have a bit of a gap and was looking at the chickens. Peeves gave it a good chase and BF said he could hear it trying to jump over the fence to get out and falling over and over before it ran the other way to leave where it entered. We are doing a repave of the path over there and hopefully will be able to shrink the gap there. We don't have foxes and our raccoons are too fat and too well fed on garbage to both actually trying to catch and kill something.

I do hope your dogs adjust to the boundaries and that the fence does what you need it to.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Ohboyohboy said:


> The neighborhood allows fences but no one on our block has one and we wanted to keep our backyard sight lines open. The neighborhood did build a long fence to separate our yards from the yards of the block behind us. For keeping out predators, I've heard real fences aren't much of an obstacle for foxes and the like who can climb/jump. We always monitor the dogs in the yard, and got the fence so they can run off leash.
> 
> I also was not too keen on the idea of zapping the dogs, but I've known a handful of people with small/toy breeds who loved their invisible fences. It truly is a very mild zap (for me, it was painless, just a sort of buzzing I wanted to stop) that they won't ever feel once they learn the boundaries. That said, my pups are turning out to be more sensitive than the dogs of anyone I had spoken to about the fence. I hope they grow confidence soon when wearing the invisible fence collar (we're 10 days into training)! @mom2zoe, I'm glad to hear Zoe is doing well with it. And that's scary she ran past it once, I'm glad you got her!


We got it in the first week of July, she was zapped a few times and that was it. 
It was very scary... I think she forgot herself because we only use the front property as I carry her off for walks. She doesn't play or hang out on front property so even though she learned the boundaries early on with the flags she doesn't think about it . She has since learned when the kids open the door to wait for me or she hangs out on porch. She will never dash out the door again.
It is comforting since my neighbors dog got hit by a car a few weeks ago. 
I did not realize it is only ten days, they will learn. I didn't take the flags down until she really understood. I think it was the last week in August.
If we are playing fetch in the backyard and it goes past her area she will just lay down and wait until i retrieve the ball. Last week there were some bunnies in the yard, she raced after them and stopped right at the spot she could not go further. She looked up at me so sad as she really wanted to chase them into next yard.
I kind of wish my kids listened that well!!


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## Poodlelvr (Mar 13, 2010)

If you have small dogs, don't leave them alone outside. An invisible fence is no protection for them. Various preditors have no problem grabbing your little dogs. In my area we have foxes, hawks, and other dangers. Do not forget human thieves. When my two toys are out, I am out. I am the crazy lady with my winter coat over my robe on a cold January morning. If I don't protect them, who will.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

If the power goes out, and the battery malfunctions and a bunny tempts your dog into the street in front of a car, you have a dead dog. It might seem unlikely, but it has happened often enough that I am not willing to chance it.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

A wooden or vinyl privacy fence keeps stray animals-- including dogs off leash-- from seeing your dog. So other animals are much less likely to go after your dog. Dogs, foxes, etc are faster than humans. So even if you are outside with your dog, you might not be fast enough to stop another animal from coming onto your property and attacking your dog.

A physical fence gives both dogs and their human companions privacy. So I want the fence both for myself and our dogs. Even if dogs could get used to invisible fences, I think they give little real protection and they are somewhat cruel. So I would not have one myself.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Charmed said:


> If the power goes out, and the battery malfunctions and a bunny tempts your dog into the street in front of a car, you have a dead dog. It might seem unlikely, but it has happened often enough that I am not willing to chance it.




Talking about the backyard, so no cars involved. In my neighborhood most people have generators { we do} because of power outage. we had Sandy which was five days.
Minipoo- Honestly, ohboy was asking for advice on how to get his dogs used to the fence , not for judgements. I am sure he knows it is a heated topic and much debate on this forum.
We all love our dogs something fierce here and ohboy is just trying to do what is best for them.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

mom2Zoe said:


> Talking about the backyard, so no cars involved. In my neighborhood most people have generators { we do} because of power outage. we had Sandy which was five days.
> Minipoo- Honestly, ohboy was asking for advice on how to get his dogs used to the fence , not for judgements. I am sure he knows it is a heated topic and much debate on this forum.
> We all love our dogs something fierce here and ohboy is just trying to do what is best for them.


You are right, I did not answer Ohboy's question. I thought you did that very well. These threads spark discussions about the pros and cons of different devices we use with our dogs. I was mentioning another con for the invisible fence which Ohboy may or may not have thought of. I did not say Ohboy was a horrible person. I really think a lot of people who use invisible fences are not aware of how dangerous they can be. That is all.


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## Ohboyohboy (Oct 31, 2014)

I know many have strong opinions about invisible fences per the research I did before investing in one. To each his own opinion and the right to express it, of course! Perhaps my title of the thread was misleading (I meant it to refer to my dogs' fear, and the post asking how to alleviate it) and drew people to express their fears of the fence type itself. A reminder of the cons is fair. For my situation the pros outweighed the cons more so than for a real fence, hence the purchase! The con of a timid dog is so far more than I anticipated per talking to other invisible fence owners, but I'm still hopeful the fence will serve its purpose.

Any other advice from invisible fence owners on how to get my dogs confident while wearing the collars?


@mom2zoe it seems like our yard setup is similar as I am especially having problems getting them comfortable in the front yard, which is smallish (maybe eight by five yards including the flower beds/bushes) and rarely used. You said Zoe was only zapped a few times (mine too). After that, how did she learn the boundaries? My trainer now has me just holding the collar (instead of putting it on the dog), and letting them hear the beeping noise when I put the collar past the flags. When they hear this beeping noise they back away from it (but in the front yard there's not much room to back up so its hard!). It's also good to know you left the flags up awhile. My trainer said some dogs only need two weeks with the flags, and I was getting nervous that at ten days I thought they would need the flags awhile longer. I too am thankful they can't escape out the door and onto the street as they could have before.

Do you have any other tips per your experience with Zoe? My trainer has me scattering their kibble or treats on the backyard cement while they wear the invisible fence collar (we have about ten feet of cement, ten feet of grass in the backyard in terms of depth), and they seem to be getting comfortable in the cement half of the yard, and the first few feet of grass for going potty. Thanks for sharing your experience! I hope they soon will be fearless to use all of the yard!


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## frecklesdmk (Mar 27, 2013)

When you remove the flags, do so in stages. Take out very 3rd flag for a day or two and then take out more until they are all removed. 

We trained in two man teams. One person walked the dog at the perimeter and one person shook the flag and said NO. You want the dog to at first look at the flag, but then turn their head away from the flag. Poodles are smart and look away quickly. 

We were told to do the walking flag shaking for a few days and then go to the next stage of off leash but doing recalls when they got close to the border. The last stage is no recall. 

Are you putting the collar on and off every time they go out? If so, they might be associating the collar with the zap and that is causing them to be fearful right away. We leave the collar on until bedtime. (I also take it off when there is a storm with lightening). When you put it on in the morning, try not going out immediately so it's not collar, door, outside. 

The only issue I've had was our first dog associated the fence with grass/road borders and when going on walks around the neighborhood, she didn't want to walk in the grass border of other people's yards. 

To leave our property, my dog knows she can go out by car or on a leash. I had two different spoos that wouldn't go out on leash and I would have to pick the spoo up and carry them over the border.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

frecklesdmk said:


> When you remove the flags, do so in stages. Take out very 3rd flag for a day or two and then take out more until they are all removed.
> 
> We trained in two man teams. One person walked the dog at the perimeter and one person shook the flag and said NO. You want the dog to at first look at the flag, but then turn their head away from the flag. Poodles are smart and look away quickly.
> 
> ...


We did all this as well, but it was included in the training when purchasing the fence.
I also leave collar on all day except for walks. When the doors are opened I feel safer knowing her collar is on.


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## DizzyIzzy (Mar 23, 2014)

My husband was talked into one of those for our boxers. It was not my choice. Our female would just take the shocks and not move, just shake.

Hubby came home one day to find that the female had dug and eaten through two zones (we had over an acre with chain link in sections). She was still being shocked. Turns out the male had gottn into the pool...he was almost drowned when hubby got to him. 

Wires got pulled up and all collars thrown out. It was also the last time he left our dogs alone outside.

I have had different friends with horror stories, ie dog left yard and was scared to renter and got hit by car. 

I know that some dogs are protected by them for life. I just don't think they are as effective when you have intelligent dogs.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

DizzyIzzy said:


> My husband was talked into one of those for our boxers. It was not my choice. Our female would just take the shocks and not move, just shake.
> 
> Hubby came home one day to find that the female had dug and eaten through two zones (we had over an acre with chain link in sections). She was still being shocked. Turns out the male had gottn into the pool...he was almost drowned when hubby got to him.
> 
> ...



I think it is a problem if they are fine with taking the shocks, then it needed to be raised and discussed with the fence people. If they don't have a problem with shocks of course they will leave property .
Zoe only got shocked in learning process and doesn't want to go any where near where she could get a shock. That is how the electric fence is suppose to work. She is as smart as a whip, the shock isn't worth going after a squirrel. Then again she doesn't realize it would stop after she goes thru.( happy for that)


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## Ohboyohboy (Oct 31, 2014)

@frecklesdmk and zoesmom, I am leaving the collar on during the day now, and not just for fence training. This seems to be making a big difference, thank you! They even brave going to the front yard with me, so that's a big step forward. I am also starting to remove the flags a few at a time this week, and using higher value treats during training instead of just kibble. We just got our first snow though, so the white flags are very invisible and I hope the pups know the border well enough (so far, so good today). Thanks to all for the great advice.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Glad to hear.
I hope they learn to use all of the yard . Zoe gets her exercise that way as well as walks. She loves playing fetch and doing zoomies around the yard.
If the ball goes in the no no zone she sits and waits for me or the kids to get it for her.
I think over time she will become more and more use to it. Zoe doesn't even think about it anymore.


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## Gryphon (Nov 5, 2013)

Put the collar around your neck and cross the invisible fence border. Read any of the books about positive behavior reinforcement. 
In my opinion, the electric fence is not appropriate for small dogs.


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## frecklesdmk (Mar 27, 2013)

Gryphon said:


> Put the collar around your neck and cross the invisible fence border. Read any of the books about positive behavior reinforcement.
> 
> In my opinion, the electric fence is not appropriate for small dogs.



Actually, my oldest son did just that. He said it hurt a lot less than the time a car hit him when he was going to the bus stop in junior high.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

Ohboyohboy said:


> @frecklesdmk and zoesmom, I am leaving the collar on during the day now, and not just for fence training. This seems to be making a big difference, thank you! They even brave going to the front yard with me, so that's a big step forward. I am also starting to remove the flags a few at a time this week, and using higher value treats during training instead of just kibble. We just got our first snow though, so the white flags are very invisible and I hope the pups know the border well enough (so far, so good today). Thanks to all for the great advice.


Leaving the collar on all day was going to be my suggestion. I haven't (and won't) use an invisible fence (or ecollar) but I know some retriever trainers that use ecollars recommend leaving them on the dog starting in puppyhood (NOT shocking puppies, just getting them used to the collar) so they don't associate the collar with the shock. I would think the same idea would work with the collar for the fence.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Gryphon said:


> Put the collar around your neck and cross the invisible fence border. Read any of the books about positive behavior reinforcement.
> In my opinion, the electric fence is not appropriate for small dogs.



This is both obnoxious and offensive!!
Those of us who use the invisible fence have ready many many books on positive reinforcement.
I actually have crossed the border holding the collar a bunch of times to make sure it was manageable for my dog. The truth is she was shocked maybe a total of four times while learning the boundaries, this is not an on going thing. 
Not everybody as an option of a fence or just chooses this method for other reasons like knowing your dog can not run off the front property , or just because they think it is a good option.

I am not sure why i feel the need to justify this to you. Maybe it is just me , but when I post I try very hard to be considerate and never to antagonize people. I know we all have different beliefs and opinions and that is ok. You can just work a little harder expressing them in a thoughtful way that is a little less judgmental.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Also, ohboys point was firstly to get advice using the fence not your feelings about using one.
Even some people posted their negative opinions about using it did it to be helpful saying never leave your dog alone with the invisible fence, or during blackouts, etc, not just to condemn.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

mom2Zoe said:


> This is both obnoxious and offensive!!
> Those of us who use the invisible fence have ready many many books on positive reinforcement.
> I actually have crossed the border holding the collar a bunch of times to make sure it was manageable for my dog. The truth is she was shocked maybe a total of four times while learning the boundaries, this is not an on going thing.
> Not everybody as an option of a fence or just chooses this method for other reasons like knowing your dog can not run off the front property , or just because they think it is a good option.
> ...


I think you are overreacting. There was no naming calling in Gryphon's post, but there was in your post. Sorry but you don't get to tell people they can't express their opinions, especially if they are civil when they do it. I know those of you who use invisible fences have reasons for doing so, but I can't think of a more negative type of training than shocking the neck of a puppy to teach it boundaries. It is very hard for those of us who feel that way not to speak up on occasion. Object all you want, but these opinions will get expressed from time to time.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

MiniPoo said:


> I think you are overreacting. There was no naming calling in Gryphon's post, but there was in your post. Sorry but you don't get to tell people they can't express their opinions, especially if they are civil when they do it. I know those of you who use invisible fences have reasons for doing so, but I can't think of a more negative type of training than shocking the neck of a puppy to teach it boundaries. It is very hard for those of us who feel that way not to speak up on occasion. Object all you want, but these opinions will get expressed from time to time.



I guess maybe you are right, it is just when I post I try to be considerate even if I disagree with people. I know its a heated topic... I just didn't see the need for saying all that after ohboy was just thanking people and telling them his dogs progress.


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## Ohboyohboy (Oct 31, 2014)

I agree with mom2zoe, I prefer avoiding being abrasive with my comments. Thanks so much for all the advice on how to best train with the invisible fence!


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## Gryphon (Nov 5, 2013)

I would not recommend being hit by a car either. Surely that is not a reasonable comparison?


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## frecklesdmk (Mar 27, 2013)

I used that as a real comparison because my son did test the collar and my son was hit by a car many years ago. The fence keeps my dog from going into the street and being hit by a car.


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## Gryphon (Nov 5, 2013)

I find it impossible to support a training method that causes a dog to vomit and cower. 
Of course nobody wants any dog to be hit by a car. That does not mean that everything that keeps a dog away from cars is appropriate. For example, staking a dog on a five foot chain would keep it away from cars. I would not say that is appropriate either.
When we purchase a dog we have an obligation (sometimes an inconvenient one) to spend time and money and emotional energy to treat that animal the best way possible. In my opinion, if one believes that an invisible fence is the only option or the best option, then one should reconsider one's commitment to owning a pet. If you don't have the money to install a true fence, or if you don't have the time or interest in walking your dog, then perhaps you should not have a dog in your family.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

frecklesdmk said:


> I used that as a real comparison because my son did test the collar and my son was hit by a car many years ago. The fence keeps my dog from going into the street and being hit by a car.


aren't these systems supposed to have a auditory signal the precedes any electric shock, so that the dog learns to respond to the beep and backs off rather than being shocked? or is that just one particular brand of system? also, isn't the shock level reglable? i do watch retrieving dogs on tv occasionally and most hunters use an e-collar, but it is normally set to beep to recall the dog.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

According to what I researched, there are more options available with invisible fences then there use to be. In the websites I checked, none of the "professionals" would recommend electric fences but most of the commentors loved the fence. There are fences/collars with adjustable shock levels and beeping sounds.

I have many objections to invisible fencing: the false sense of security they give and using them on puppies that might be going through a fear period are my biggest concerns.

That being said, I do hope that all posters using invisible fences have the results they are hoping for: a safe dog that is not tramatized by its use.


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## frecklesdmk (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes, there is an audio beep warning. Like someone else mentioned, my spoo does not go near the borders and hasn't since her initial training. 

I'm not saying the invisible fence is the best option for everyone. It is an option for people to research, compare, access, and make a decision.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

I hate invisible fences  I'm scared of a dog sitting on someone's driveway staring me down ? what if this huge mean dog decides it's worth getting shocked to bite me ? Or my child?! Or my pup?!  it makes me cringe and sometimes I get shaky I'm so scared.

A real fence keeps EVERYONE safe including our pups (from other roaming dogs, or thieves looking to make a buck on a cute pup)

Ask for a refund on the "it made my dog puke -reason?" 

Yikes! Not for me... ? sorry.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

Gryphon said:


> I find it impossible to support a training method that causes a dog to vomit and cower.
> Of course nobody wants any dog to be hit by a car. That does not mean that everything that keeps a dog away from cars is appropriate. For example, staking a dog on a five foot chain would keep it away from cars. I would not say that is appropriate either.
> When we purchase a dog we have an obligation (sometimes an inconvenient one) to spend time and money and emotional energy to treat that animal the best way possible. In my opinion, if one believes that an invisible fence is the only option or the best option, then one should reconsider one's commitment to owning a pet. If you don't have the money to install a true fence, or if you don't have the time or interest in walking your dog, then perhaps you should not have a dog in your family.


I've been paying attention and listening to all opinions. This one I have to disagree with. I am not saying I am in favor of zapping my puppy! But for someone to buy and install an electric fence, obviously has the best interests of their dog in mind. There are people that should not have a dog in their family but I'm sure it is not anybody in this thread.

pr


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## Bizzeemamanj (Apr 14, 2014)

Poodlerunner said:


> I've been paying attention and listening to all opinions. This one I have to disagree with. I am not saying I am in favor of zapping my puppy! But for someone to buy and install an electric fence, obviously has the best interests of their dog in mind. There are people that should not have a dog in their family but I'm sure it is not anybody in this thread.
> 
> pr


I don't have an electric fence, so don't have a dog in the race (hehe), but I think it's important to note that in some parts of the world, the cost of installing a "real fence" is so cost prohibitive and restrictive, it isn't even an option for most people. Not to mention all the HOA rules and township regulations on fences - particularly here in NJ. 

The only people in my neighborhood who have fences have pools. Pool people have fences because it's required. No one else does. No one. It is so expensive and difficult to get a fence installed here without a pool. I know, I looked into fencing in the back yard for Cooper.

After all my research, following my HOA rules and my township's rules, the only fence option I had was an aluminum fence (no solid fencing allowed) with small enough gaps that Cooper could not get through (but would allow various critters in). The cost? $15,000 for the back yard only. Um. No.

Electric fences are a much less expensive alternative. Most people in my neighborhood who have dogs also have electric fences. I don't think they are all less than adequate dog owners or don't have a right to own a dog. I understand why some people make the electric fence choice in the best interest of their dogs. I find the implied insult about whether or not that makes them good enough dog owners, well, insulting.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Bizzeemamanj said:


> I don't have an electric fence, so don't have a dog in the race (hehe), but I think it's important to note that in some parts of the world, the cost of installing a "real fence" is so cost prohibitive and restrictive, it isn't even an option for most people. Not to mention all the HOA rules and township regulations on fences - particularly here in NJ.
> 
> The only people in my neighborhood who have fences have pools. Pool people have fences because it's required. No one else does. No one. It is so expensive and difficult to get a fence installed here without a pool. I know, I looked into fencing in the back yard for Cooper.
> 
> ...


I certainly would not pay $15,000 for a fence. I also would not live in a house that did not allow fences. I think where the fence is so expensive, I would not fence my entire yard, just a portion of it to keep the costs down.

If the electric fence seems like the ONLY alternative, than I would not train a puppy with it. I would allow the puppy to grow older and get through the first couple of fear periods. Apparently you can train older dogs with these fences quite well. Why take a chance that your puppy does not respond well to these devices even though other people's puppy have? I use inside gating to keep the puppy from going out the front door when it is opened. Use a leash to take it outside to do its business until it is older. Then train it to the electric fence if you feel you must. These are just my opinions, I know. I just wanted to point out there are alternatives to shocking puppies.

We are so careful about what we feed our dogs and how we vaccinate our puppies because we want to give them the best start in life, to keep them as healthy as possible. Why would you expose your puppy to a negative training device that causes them to fear certain places in their yard during their young formative months? Why not wait until they are older as I describe above? 

This is my final comment on this thread and actually it is on topic because the OP is asking for help about their puppy being fearful because of this training. He actually ONLY wanted to hear from others who were using invisible fencing. Even though I am not one of those, I would advise stopping the training and using positive methods to teach it the borders of the yard, then going back to the shock collar when it is older if that is the way you want to go.

Good luck on whatever you decide.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

i do have a personal aversion to zapping puppies. but i also am not so sure i really know how these fences work at this time and that there is any serious zapping going on. it seems there have been new developments and changes in the technology and how it is used. as with any tool, using it skillfully may be the most important responsibility any owner who chooses to use it has. we make a lot of assumptions about all kinds of things - and they may not be true. it was a total surprise to me to stumble upon an tv episode with victoria stillwell mentioning in passing that some dogs don't like the sound of the clicker everyone is so enthusiastic about in promoting clicker training. so clicker training isn't always the right tool - the individual propensities of the dog matter, too. raising our dogs to live with us is not always as straightforward as it seems. i will spare everyone the details in an article i recently read concerning a gsd puppy that had to be put to sleep because its owners misused a collar and leash.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Thank you for all the reply's realizing that it is unkind to say we don't deserve to be dog owners.
I think everyone on this forum loves their dog tremendously or they would not be on here to learn more or even to just chat.
Biz- You are right about the cost being close to ten thousand to put in a fence in New Jersey. those were my quotes, but then i was not allowed to do regardless.
There is a warning and a beep that does tell them they are getting close to the border when they are learning the boundaries and always.
I do understand all the bad feelings associated with the electric fence because nobody wants to inflict any pain on their dog,{ or any dog} or know they are not protecting them well enough. However, it really is not the case ,or in my dealings with it
If I was being overly sensitive it is only coming from a good place because I love Zoe very much and always care that i am doing the best for her. To insinuate otherwise is insulting.


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## Gryphon (Nov 5, 2013)

Please don't misquote me.


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