# I now have two poodles with seizures, and Maizie had a terrible one today



## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I’m so sorry, this is heartbreaking to read. I hope dear Maizie and Frosty are okay. ((((Hugs)))). This clearly is very traumatic for you and the dogs.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Thank you, Skylar. I appreciate your kind words very much.


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## Miki (Dec 25, 2021)

{{{{{❤Maizie & Frosty & You❤}}}}}

Sounds like you're getting great care for your Poodles, and they're getting excellent care from you. There's a ton of tweaking that happens with seizure meds, but it's totally doable with good support. You seem like a warrior-ess for your curly babies - you have their backs, and we have your's. ❤❤❤❤❤


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## Apricot mini momma (Dec 22, 2020)

Oh my, this is just crushing 😢. It is so hard to know why with dogs, the fact is that there isn’t enough real research to know what is right, wrong and better. We do our best with what we have and the knowledge that is out there. 

Much love to Maizie and Frosty, tough news to take for you especially.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

This is so scary and sad. I’m sorry, @MaizieFrosty.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

You and Maizie must be exhausted. I hope you both are able to get some rest.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Thank you, ladies. I so appreciate the support. 

Miki, the rational part of my brain sort of knows that with time and figuring out the meds, things will probably be okay. But then the fear part runs wild...

Diana, we are exhausted! We're having a rest right now, but I have to leave shortly to meet a client. I'll be home with them for most of the day tomorrow, thankfully.


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## Miki (Dec 25, 2021)

MaizieFrosty said:


> Miki, the rational part of my brain sort of knows that with time and figuring out the meds, things will probably be okay. But then the fear part runs wild...


Constant vigilance is terrifying and exhausting. I know this too well. (There's a bunch of reasons I'm reluctant to get another Spoo, even though they'll always be my ❤ dogs. The Spoos in my life had Addison's Disease, chronic pancreatitis, calcium oxalate stones, mast cell tumors, laryngeal paralysis, sebaceous adenitis, so yeah - I know the genetic bottleneck). 

But even and especially with chronic disease, it does settle into a manageable rhythm after a while. Disease specific groups help immensely.

❤


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Miki said:


> Constant vigilance is terrifying and exhausting. I know this too well. (There's a bunch of reasons I'm reluctant to get another Spoo, even though they'll always be my ❤ dogs. The Spoos in my life had Addison's Disease, chronic pancreatitis, calcium oxalate stones, mast cell tumors, laryngeal paralysis, sebaceous adenitis, so yeah - I know the genetic bottleneck).
> 
> But even and especially with chronic disease, it does settle into a manageable rhythm after a while. Disease specific groups help immensely.
> 
> ❤


So sorry you went through all of those health issues with your spoos. You definitely understand. I wish I had known what I know now, but I do believe there's a reason these two are in my life. 

I think that's a wonderful suggestion to join a disease-specific group. Thank you kindly for that tip.


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

I don't know what to say other than I'm really sorry you, Maizie and Frosty are going through this. I feel for you. If it were me, I'd be a wreck. It's good you have a rational side telling you everything is going to be ok. Prayers and thoughts...


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## Bigbark (Jan 9, 2021)

My beautiful party boy had grand mal seizures from 7 years till he died of cancer at age 13. Sometimes it was tricky to manage his meds and he’d have more than one seizure a day, and sometimes he could go for several months without having a seizure. In spite of the seizures he was a magnificent companion and we had a full life and lots of adventures together. I loved him to the ends of the earth.

You have more strength than you know, and you’ll be able to get through this and do the best possible for Mazie and Frosty. Stay strong - my thoughts are with you.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

I'm so sorry. Seizures can be awful to deal with and very scary. My family's border collie mix and my sister's heinz 57 mix have both dealt with them. Usually only a couple a year. But there's an awful feeling of helplessness that accompanies a seizure. I'm not sold on mixes being healthier based on my family's experiences with them, but I understand wanting to try something different after going through trauma like this.

I've come to feel that many of the most wonderful breeds suffer from small gene pools and genetic health issues because they have been so selectively bred for wonderful traits. It's hard to balance consistency of temperament with diversity. A lot of primitive breeds have really good health, but they just lack the traits I want in a dog. I don't think there is an easy choice.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Oh no, this is terrible. I am very sad to hear about your two babies having seizures. This is truly heartbreaking, as you have done everything right. I agree that so many breeds nowadays have serious health problems.

I will be thinking about you three and hoping for the best outcome. Time will be on your side, I am sure.


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## Little Milo (Sep 1, 2021)

I’m so sorry to hear about your terrible ordeal. I hope the three of you get some rest.❤


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

So sorry you have been dealt such a terrible ordeal. I'll be praying that everything works out for you, Maizie and Frosty. 🙏


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Apricot mini momma said:


> Oh my, this is just crushing 😢. It is so hard to know why with dogs, the fact is that there isn’t enough real research to know what is right, wrong and better. We do our best with what we have and the knowledge that is out there.
> 
> Much love to Maizie and Frosty, tough news to take for you especially.


Thank you, Apricot mini momma. I believe we do know, however, that dogs with a COI of 20% and higher are not healthy. There is scientific proof there. We need more breeders making genetic diversity a priority. Just MHO. 



Happy'sDad said:


> I don't know what to say other than I'm really sorry you, Maizie and Frosty are going through this. I feel for you. If it were me, I'd be a wreck. It's good you have a rational side telling you everything is going to be ok. Prayers and thoughts...


Thank you, Happy'sDad  I am blessed with faith and a rational side to balance my highly sensitive, feeling side  



Bigbark said:


> My beautiful party boy had grand mal seizures from 7 years till he died of cancer at age 13. Sometimes it was tricky to manage his meds and he’d have more than one seizure a day, and sometimes he could go for several months without having a seizure. In spite of the seizures he was a magnificent companion and we had a full life and lots of adventures together. I loved him to the ends of the earth.
> 
> You have more strength than you know, and you’ll be able to get through this and do the best possible for Mazie and Frosty. Stay strong - my thoughts are with you.


Aww, thank you so much, Bigbark. That's very encouraging that even with grand mal seizures your boy lived a long life and enjoyed his time with you. 



Raindrops said:


> I'm so sorry. Seizures can be awful to deal with and very scary. My family's border collie mix and my sister's heinz 57 mix have both dealt with them. Usually only a couple a year. But there's an awful feeling of helplessness that accompanies a seizure. I'm not sold on mixes being healthier based on my family's experiences with them, but I understand wanting to try something different after going through trauma like this.
> 
> I've come to feel that many of the most wonderful breeds suffer from small gene pools and genetic health issues because they have been so selectively bred for wonderful traits. It's hard to balance consistency of temperament with diversity. A lot of primitive breeds have really good health, but they just lack the traits I want in a dog. I don't think there is an easy choice.


Very good points all around, as usual, Raindrops. Thank you. 



Dechi said:


> Oh no, this is terrible. I am very sad to hear about your two babies having seizures. This is truly heartbreaking, as you have done everything right. I agree that so many breeds nowadays have serious health problems.
> 
> I will be thinking about you three and hoping for the best outcome. Time will be on your side, I am sure.


Thank you, my sweet friend 💗



Little Milo said:


> I’m so sorry to hear about your terrible ordeal. I hope the three of you get some rest.❤


Thank you, Little Milo. I'm about to feed them dinner (Maizie wants my Vietnamese food  and then we will get snuggled in for the night!


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

94Magna_Tom said:


> So sorry you have been dealt such a terrible ordeal. I'll be praying that everything works out for you, Maizie and Frosty. 🙏


Thank you, Tom. We appreciate your prayers so much


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm so sorry to hear this is happening. I can't even imagine this double whammy but I know you'll get all of you thru. You're tougher than whatever life might throw at you. 

You're all in my thoughts.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Rose n Poos said:


> I'm so sorry to hear this is happening. I can't even imagine this double whammy but I know you'll get all of you thru. You're tougher than whatever life might throw at you.
> 
> You're all in my thoughts.


Thank you so much, Rose 💗 

Update: The vet had mentioned "movement disorder" as a possible dx. So, I googled it and I believe this is what they *both *have! Atypical Seizures / Paroxysmal Dyskinesia | College of Veterinary Medicine - University of Minnesota (umn.edu)


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## Footprints&pawmarks (Mar 8, 2021)

MaizieFrosty, my heart goes out to you and your fuzzy kids. Sending hugs to all. 

Years ago, I had a rescue Doberman who had his first seizure at approximately six years of age. It was a full-blown seizure. Amazingly, I have a friend who is a veterinary neurologist -- what are the odds of that? She discovered that he had toxoplasmosis cysts in his brain -- probably from eating cat poop years before I got him. 

After playing medication dose games, and under her loving care, he lived for over three very good years before he died of something totally unrelated. Although I was sad at his loss, I was so grateful for those wonderful years together. We got down to very infrequent seizures, less than one a month, sometimes several months between episodes.

What I want to tell you is that, between seizures, we had lots of good times, and made lots of happy memories. He was always my big buddy, not a dog who is more a patient than a pet.

Seizures are unbelievably hideous. And you can cope. You, and your dogs, can still enjoy lots of good years together. 
I have faith that you will!


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Thank you so much for sharing your story about your sweet Doberman, Pawprints. I'm so glad you were able to enjoy your time together in spite of the seizures. Thank you for the encouragement that I can do the same with my dogs


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## Apricot mini momma (Dec 22, 2020)

You are so much braver than I would be in your situation, and you are so well informed. Today was shocking- wishing you all a good nights rest and a better day tomorrow. 🤗


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Apricot mini momma said:


> You are so much braver than I would be in your situation, and you are so well informed. Today was shocking- wishing you all a good nights rest and a better day tomorrow. 🤗


Thank you so much for these lovely wishes  💗


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

I am so sorry for you @MaizieFrosty . What an awful scare. I am praying for you all. I hope you, despite all the worries, can rest and recuperate. It sounds like you ha E good medical support from your vet. Sending virtual hugs from Denmark


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

More hugs from the UK - it does become the new normal very quickly, but it is hard knowing that the anxiety is going to be there throughout your lives together.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I am so sorry. Gentle hugs.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

Oh, I am so sorry to hear about both your poodles having seizures. One of my daughters had seizures as a premature infant and I remember how nerve racking it was. As for poodles and their health, my last two lived to be 15 and 16. The female had no health issues and the male was diagnosed with borderline Addison's when he was 6 months old; we lucked out on that one as he only had one crisis and was never on medication. Our current boys will be 8 in June and their only real health issue has been food allergies. Once they were tested, we avoided the "bad" foods and they have done well. Wilson did have some sebaceous cysts on his tail. Their sire lived to be 16, and I think theses boys are doing great. I will say that I get more selective about choosing each ensuing breeder and have been very pleased with the boys. Except for the brothers, none of my poodles are/were closely related. I wish you the best. At least there are many more anti-seizure drugs than there used to be.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

MaizieFrosty said:


> You try to do everything right...get a $$$$$$$ dog from a show breeder who does full health testing. You raise them with love and care, even devote your life around them! But poodles are not a healthy breed anymore. They are too inbred, and they suffer because of it.
> 
> So, as you guys may remember, Maizie started having seizures in 2018. They were "minor" and didn't occur frequently, so after bloodwork, we took a wait and see approach. She generally has 2-3/year.
> 
> ...


I'm so so sorry that you have to deal with all this. I do hope they find something to help and that perhaps Frostys was just a freak one and that it doesn't happen again. I agree with you too many of our purebred dogs are suffering from life threatening conditions. When I was young and had dogs you didn't hear of these things. Perhaps it was because dogs weren't quite as much family members as they are now and they didn't live as long either. So its sort of a catch 22. I also think that all the overbreeding and popularity of a breed seem to be a factor. In any case it stinks big time. And the money now that vets charge is outrageous. Our lil cairn terrier had issues starting years ago where she would go off her food for days and then throw up. They did a bunch of tests all inconclusive and wanted to do more. The vet felt it was either cancer in the intestine or IBD. I opted to not test and just treat for IBD, so she has been on Science Diet digestive care for years. Last year they did a blood panel because she is now 10 and her liver enzymes were thru the roof, so again they wanted to do a batch of very expensive tests to determine why. With the rising costs this year, I just can't do it. Dog food alone is costing close to $100 a week now . Anyway I gave her some Same for liver support and its been going well. She was 10 in December and has a good life and doesn't appear to be ill at all. So time will tell. WE lost our boxer to cancer 2 years ago now., I have 2 friends with golden, one has lost 4 all 4 of her goodness to cancer, and they participate in the Morris foundation studies. And another had a golden doodle who also passed of cancer . All different types. Life just isn't fair sometimes. Its bad enough when our humans are ill and pass and now our pets have joined this force. I'm just so sorry. There are 4 dogs in my house right now, 3 are my responsibility but I can tell you I personally can't handle more heartbreak. I will keep you and Maizie and Frosty in my thoughts and hope all turns out well. ( Sorry for long rambling post, I'm having issues too).


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## Summer (May 2, 2016)

I'm so sorry to hear of your issues with your poodles. Im sure it's very scary. It would be nice to know a trigger so you can possibly avoid the seizures. Hopefully the diversity testing, and breeding unrelated dogs, that many are doing now will lead to healthier poodles.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

My test subject has now gone across the bridge, but when he was here and in rictus, human touch seemed to always calm the seizure. Caressing and petting were a start. But I would go so far as to straddle him lengthwise on hands and knees and slowly lower myself so far as to actually compress him. (a bit) 
My crazy theory stems from the ThunderShirt principle and that dogs seem to be more comfortable when they're touching other dogs... crowded in a pile??????


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Minie said:


> I am so sorry for you @MaizieFrosty . What an awful scare. I am praying for you all. I hope you, despite all the worries, can rest and recuperate. It sounds like you ha E good medical support from your vet. Sending virtual hugs from Denmark


Thank you, Minie. We are lucky to have the best medical care where we live, although it sure comes with a high cost! 


fjm said:


> More hugs from the UK - it does become the new normal very quickly, but it is hard knowing that the anxiety is going to be there throughout your lives together.


Thank you, fjm. Means a lot to have a "world" of support from our poodle family. 


Click-N-Treat said:


> I am so sorry. Gentle hugs.


Thank you, Click 💗 


Charmed said:


> Oh, I am so sorry to hear about both your poodles having seizures. One of my daughters had seizures as a premature infant and I remember how nerve racking it was. As for poodles and their health, my last two lived to be 15 and 16. The female had no health issues and the male was diagnosed with borderline Addison's when he was 6 months old; we lucked out on that one as he only had one crisis and was never on medication. Our current boys will be 8 in June and their only real health issue has been food allergies. Once they were tested, we avoided the "bad" foods and they have done well. Wilson did have some sebaceous cysts on his tail. Their sire lived to be 16, and I think theses boys are doing great. I will say that I get more selective about choosing each ensuing breeder and have been very pleased with the boys. Except for the brothers, none of my poodles are/were closely related. I wish you the best. At least there are many more anti-seizure drugs than there used to be.


Thank you, Charmed. I can only imagine how upsetting seizures would be in a child after witnessing them in the dogs. When I think of healthy poodles, I always think of yours. It's amazing how long yours have lived! And I'm glad your current boys are doing well overall. 


Mufar42 said:


> I'm so so sorry that you have to deal with all this. I do hope they find something to help and that perhaps Frostys was just a freak one and that it doesn't happen again. I agree with you too many of our purebred dogs are suffering from life threatening conditions. When I was young and had dogs you didn't hear of these things. Perhaps it was because dogs weren't quite as much family members as they are now and they didn't live as long either. So its sort of a catch 22. I also think that all the overbreeding and popularity of a breed seem to be a factor. In any case it stinks big time. And the money now that vets charge is outrageous. Our lil cairn terrier had issues starting years ago where she would go off her food for days and then throw up. They did a bunch of tests all inconclusive and wanted to do more. The vet felt it was either cancer in the intestine or IBD. I opted to not test and just treat for IBD, so she has been on Science Diet digestive care for years. Last year they did a blood panel because she is now 10 and her liver enzymes were thru the roof, so again they wanted to do a batch of very expensive tests to determine why. With the rising costs this year, I just can't do it. Dog food alone is costing close to $100 a week now . Anyway I gave her some Same for liver support and its been going well. She was 10 in December and has a good life and doesn't appear to be ill at all. So time will tell. WE lost our boxer to cancer 2 years ago now., I have 2 friends with golden, one has lost 4 all 4 of her goodness to cancer, and they participate in the Morris foundation studies. And another had a golden doodle who also passed of cancer . All different types. Life just isn't fair sometimes. Its bad enough when our humans are ill and pass and now our pets have joined this force. I'm just so sorry. There are 4 dogs in my house right now, 3 are my responsibility but I can tell you I personally can't handle more heartbreak. I will keep you and Maizie and Frosty in my thoughts and hope all turns out well. ( Sorry for long rambling post, I'm having issues too).


Thank you for your empathy, Mufar. You can really relate to feeling overwhelmed with health issues and losses. You made me realize that losing Zooey and my mother's dogs in 2020 within a few months of each other is contributing to my feelings. I will pray for you and your dogs! 



Summer said:


> I'm so sorry to hear of your issues with your poodles. Im sure it's very scary. It would be nice to know a trigger so you can possibly avoid the seizures. Hopefully the diversity testing, and breeding unrelated dogs, that many are doing now will lead to healthier poodles.


Thank you, Summer. If it is paroxysmal dyskinesia, the triggers appear to be stress, exercise, and excitement. Maizie is naturally a very excitable dog (which also puts her at risk for bloat), but I don't exercise her excessively. Stress is a possibility if she's picking up on my own stress, I suppose. 



Countryboy said:


> My test subject has now gone across the bridge, but when he was here and in rictus, human touch seemed to always calm the seizure. Caressing and petting were a start. But I would go so far as to straddle him lengthwise on hands and knees and slowly lower myself so far as to actually compress him. (a bit)
> My crazy theory stems from the ThunderShirt principle and that dogs seem to be more comfortable when they're touching other dogs... crowded in a pile??????


Thank you, CB--I naturally pet her and tell her it's okay when she's having a seizure (which I really suspect now is paroxysmal dyskinesia).


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I am so sad to hear about all of the distress you are going through. I hope you can get some clear answers and good managment plans.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

lily cd re said:


> I am so sad to hear about all of the distress you are going through. I hope you can get some clear answers and good managment plans.


Thank you so much, Catherine.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Love and hugs from here, @MaizieFrosty 🥰💖. I'm so sorry you are facing this. Today I ran across some research news. Saw it at The Daily Beast, but this Irish Times article has info too.. Blood brain barrier issue for some perhaps. Replicated in a mouse model.









Irish scientists identify novel approach to preventing epileptic seizures


The breakthrough was led by researchers in Trinity College Dublin




www.irishtimes.com













A Gatekeeping Protein Offers a New Way to Finally Curing Epilepsy


Scientists are uncovering the molecular mysteries of this ancient human disease.




www.thedailybeast.com


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

How is Maizie doing today?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Yes, Elisabeth I hope you are having a better day today and that Maizie is good. I look forward to reading the links that Streetcar posted. I also was thinking about how different "healthcare' is for our dogs, other companion animals and ourselves these days. Many things are light years better than things I remember from when I was a kid and we fed our dog Gaines Burgers and such, but there are also clearly things we use that have risks (like Bravecto and other similar anti-flea/tick meds with neurological complications). Our well loved breeds have changed genetically but the substances we expose them to have changed too, and not always to their advantage.


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## ShamrockPoodle (Jan 22, 2017)

Prayers for you and your poodles❤ Hoping this can be managed.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Streetcar said:


> Love and hugs from here, @MaizieFrosty 🥰💖. I'm so sorry you are facing this. Today I ran across some research news. Saw it at The Daily Beast, but this Irish Times article has info too.. Blood brain barrier issue for some perhaps. Replicated in a mouse model.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





lily cd re said:


> Yes, Elisabeth I hope you are having a better day today and that Maizie is good. I look forward to reading the links that Streetcar posted. I also was thinking about how different "healthcare' is for our dogs, other companion animals and ourselves these days. Many things are light years better than things I remember from when I was a kid and we fed our dog Gaines Burgers and such, but there are also clearly things we use that have risks (like Bravecto and other similar anti-flea/tick meds with neurological complications). Our well loved breeds have changed genetically but the substances we expose them to have changed too, and not always to their advantage.


Thank you for checking in. We are having a better, calmer day today. Maizie is a little tired on her meds, which the vet said was to be expected for the first week or two as she adjusts to it. I did catch her in a moment of trying to initiate play with one of her stuffed animals, but otherwise, she's been pretty mellow. I think she might also be sore from her legs splaying and bumping herself under the bed 

Gaines Burgers! LOL I loved feeding my dog those back in the day! You are right, there are many more toxins in the environment now than there were back then. Good reminder.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

The big thing I remember about Gaines Burgers is their smell!

I am really happy to hear Maizie is doing well.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Buck has had three seizures. The first was in October 2017, the next was in March 2018 and the last was June 2018. We took him to a vet neurologist, opted not to do the MRI, and with generic Keppra, twice a day, no further seizures. I am prone to anxiety, so that time between seizures was excruciating. They scared me rigid. Most general vets advise three seizures a month before medical intervention, but I think that’s cruel. The medications are effective and the peace of mind is priceless. I’m so sorry you are having to deal with this with sweet Frosty and Maizie. I wish the PCA would examine idiopathic epilepsy in standards.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

lily cd re said:


> The big thing I remember about Gaines Burgers is their smell!
> 
> I am really happy to hear Maizie is doing well.


I can totally smell them in my head! 

Thank you  She is currently playing with Frosty and acting normal!


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Mfmst said:


> Buck has had three seizures. The first was in October 2017, the next was in March 2018 and the last was June 2018. We took him to a vet neurologist, opted not to do the MRI, and with generic Keppra, twice a day, no further seizures. I am prone to anxiety, so that time between seizures was excruciating. They scared me rigid. Most general vets advise three seizures a month before medical intervention, but I think that’s cruel. The medications are effective and the peace of mind is priceless. I’m so sorry you are having to deal with this with sweet Frosty and Maizie. I wish the PCA would examine idiopathic epilepsy in standards.


I remember when Buck had his first seizure--Maizie was not far behind with her first. I think that's terrible to make a dog go through 3 a month! My vet said more than 3-4 per year would mean looking at medication. But, now I'm more convinced both of my dogs are having paroxysmal dyskinesias rather than seizures. I'm going to start a separate thread about it. 

With all the money I've given Versatility in Poodles recently, I hope they are doing research as well on IE and now PD!


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## TerraFirma (12 mo ago)

So sorry for your experience! I just had a terribly tragic incident with a young Standard Poodle affected by neuro disorder. He had multi-generations of CHIC cert in his pedigree, and even his COI was well within the healthy range.

Were both of your dogs from the same breeder/same line or different? I know that these things can happen, as you say, regardless of all the boxes being ticked. I hope that the breeders are aware and are showing their due diligence by retiring sire and dam and following up with all the progeny. I can't fathom how I would feel if I did everything within my power to produce healthy dogs...and then this popped up. Has an MRI been performed on either dog to determine if seizures are structural? I know that's quite expensive. Have samples been sent to this group at U of Missouri for research? Dr. O'Brien, one of the researchers, was quick to respond to me when I inquired about some of his research. I don't know if they're still collecting samples for epilepsy, but if they are, it may be ideal to have the dam, sire, and all siblings that can be tested tested and the DNA samples sent and banked. If we can locate the DNA markers, testing is within reach. Other research ongoing can be found here. Maybe this is all old news to you.

I've contemplated giving up on purebreds as well, but there is something so beautiful and rewarding and _fitting _about the right breed in the right home/job that it would be tragic to lose them all together. And the beautiful Standard boy I had all of 30hrs has convinced me....I can't give up. I also have SFTs - terribly tiny gene pool worldwide - and yet all of my dogs have been exceptionally healthy and long lived. May they stay this way. With dedication from preservation breeders of high risk breeds, we can hopefully improve their health and begin to undo what was done in the 80s and 90s with sire-mania and indiscriminate in/line-breeding. 

I hope that you are able to commune with your dogs and tell them how loved and wonderful they are.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

TerraFirma said:


> So sorry for your experience! I just had a terribly tragic incident with a young Standard Poodle affected by neuro disorder. He had multi-generations of CHIC cert in his pedigree, and even his COI was well within the healthy range.
> 
> Were both of your dogs from the same breeder/same line or different? I know that these things can happen, as you say, regardless of all the boxes being ticked. I hope that the breeders are aware and are showing their due diligence by retiring sire and dam and following up with all the progeny. I can't fathom how I would feel if I did everything within my power to produce healthy dogs...and then this popped up. Has an MRI been performed on either dog to determine if seizures are structural? I know that's quite expensive. Have samples been sent to this group at U of Missouri for research? Dr. O'Brien, one of the researchers, was quick to respond to me when I inquired about some of his research. I don't know if they're still collecting samples for epilepsy, but if they are, it may be ideal to have the dam, sire, and all siblings that can be tested tested and the DNA samples sent and banked. If we can locate the DNA markers, testing is within reach. Other research ongoing can be found here. Maybe this is all old news to you.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry for what you went through with your puppy. That was absolutely heartbreaking. I'm happy to hear that you haven't given up and will seek another puppy. 

My dogs are from totally different lines, although they show up as relatives on the Embark website, since all standards are so incredibly inbred. 

No, an MRI has not been performed because it is $4K each, and I would only spend that much to save their lives with an excellent prognosis and when they are still young, honestly. I'm a realist when it comes to my dogs, even though they are among the most important things in my life. I don't think this is epilepsy, but rather paroxysmal dyskinesia. Thank you very much for the info on the epilepsy studies, though. I will bookmark it in case I'm wrong about the dx.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Oh gosh, how I remember Gaines Burgers. Also Kenl (think that was the spelling) Ration kibble.

I've seen your interesting update just a few minutes ago. So thankful Maizie is getting some rest and you are feeling better. A very tough day for you both yesterday.


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## Pavie (May 4, 2021)

Very sorry for your experience! I hope Maizie is well rested and doing better today. 

$4k for an MRI seems excessively expensive... I do MRI on humans and it costs about $600/hour (in an academic hospital setting). That said, pet-stuff and private health care are often overpriced  

There's an instagram account called #weratedogs that helps with gofundme donations to dogs with unexpected medical needs. It might be a long shot, but it could be worth reaching out to them. 

Other than MRI, is a CT scan and/or EEG an option? Both are cheaper than MRI, and CTs are often done before MRIs in humans, as it's cheaper and if it's anything obvious (like a big tumor or cyst) it should be able to detect it. An EEG might also help detect/determine what type of seizure Maizie has (though not guaranteed), but I'm not sure how common it's used on dogs (it is common to use it as part of human epilepsy diagnosis).


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## Beaches1 (Jul 9, 2017)

MaizieFrosty said:


> You try to do everything right...get a $$$$$$$ dog from a show breeder who does full health testing. You raise them with love and care, even devote your life around them! But poodles are not a healthy breed anymore. They are too inbred, and they suffer because of it.
> 
> So, as you guys may remember, Maizie started having seizures in 2018. They were "minor" and didn't occur frequently, so after bloodwork, we took a wait and see approach. She generally has 2-3/year.
> 
> ...


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## Beaches1 (Jul 9, 2017)

MaizieFrosty said:


> You try to do everything right...get a $$$$$$$ dog from a show breeder who does full health testing. You raise them with love and care, even devote your life around them! But poodles are not a healthy breed anymore. They are too inbred, and they suffer because of it.
> 
> So, as you guys may remember, Maizie started having seizures in 2018. They were "minor" and didn't occur frequently, so after bloodwork, we took a wait and see approach. She generally has 2-3/year.
> 
> ...





MaizieFrosty said:


> You try to do everything right...get a $$$$$$$ dog from a show breeder who does full health testing. You raise them with love and care, even devote your life around them! But poodles are not a healthy breed anymore. They are too inbred, and they suffer because of it.
> 
> So, as you guys may remember, Maizie started having seizures in 2018. They were "minor" and didn't occur frequently, so after bloodwork, we took a wait and see approach. She generally has 2-3/year.
> 
> ...


My heart aches for you and for your dogs. What a nightmare you are going through. My thoughts and prayers are with you my friend.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Pavie said:


> Very sorry for your experience! I hope Maizie is well rested and doing better today.
> 
> $4k for an MRI seems excessively expensive... I do MRI on humans and it costs about $600/hour (in an academic hospital setting). That said, pet-stuff and private health care are often overpriced
> 
> ...


Hi Pavie, thank you so much for this info. The vet seemed to think that the MRI was the only option (like it was that or nothing). I can afford the procedure and would rather die than ask for money (I'm always the one contributing to GoFundMes), but it's more that I don't think it's right for the vet to charge that much. Just like my dogs' upcoming dentals. Can I pay over $3K per dog? Yes. Am I willing to? No, I'm going to a lower cost clinic. 



Beaches1 said:


> My heart aches for you and for your dogs. What a nightmare you are going through. My thoughts and prayers are with you my friend.


Thank you so much, my PF friend from the start! So nice to "see" you and I appreciate your thoughts and prayers so much. Hope you are doing well 💕


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

Just now reading this and my heart is breaking. Thoughts, prayers and angels your way. You, Maizie & Frosty are part of my world that I cherish. PM me if there is anyway I can do to help ((((HUGS))))


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Asta's Mom said:


> Just now reading this and my heart is breaking. Thoughts, prayers and angels your way. You, Maizie & Frosty are part of my world that I cherish. PM me if there is anyway I can do to help ((((HUGS))))


Thank you, sweet Claire 😭 I love you and appreciate you so much 💕


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## Cariboo Poodle (Nov 17, 2021)

My Shih Tzu x Maltese started having seizures at about two years old. He kept having them off and on for the next three years and then they just stopped. He was never medicated and is now 15 years old and doing really well. Never did discover what was causing them and the Vet said he had never seen them just stop. They usually happened at night, he would suddenly throw up and they would start and get very violent but then stop and just act normal.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Cariboo Poodle said:


> My Shih Tzu x Maltese started having seizures at about two years old. He kept having them off and on for the next three years and then they just stopped. He was never medicated and is now 15 years old and doing really well. Never did discover what was causing them and the Vet said he had never seen them just stop. They usually happened at night, he would suddenly throw up and they would start and get very violent but then stop and just act normal.


Thank you for sharing, Cariboo Poodle! Do you think they could have been paroxysmal dyskinesias instead of seizures? I read an article that said that dyskinesias can just stop one day, whereas seizures tend to get worse and worse if they are not medicated.


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## Cariboo Poodle (Nov 17, 2021)

They were definitely seizures but never did discover what was causing them. I continued trialing in Agility and he never had one at a trial and once a seizure stopped he was back to normal right away.

Years ago I had a Greyhound with epilepsy and we did have to treat her. After a seizure she was very disoriented and took a while to recognize us. We found her dead one morning so think she probably had a seizure during the night and died.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Cariboo Poodle said:


> They were definitely seizures but never did discover what was causing them. I continued trialing in Agility and he never had one at a trial and once a seizure stopped he was back to normal right away.
> 
> Years ago I had a Greyhound with epilepsy and we did have to treat her. After a seizure she was very disoriented and took a while to recognize us. We found her dead one morning so think she probably had a seizure during the night and died.


😢 I'm so sorry about your Greyhound.


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## Sroodle8 (Dec 23, 2021)

I'm so sorry to hear about your beautiful dogs. Awful. Please continue to update us. I'm glad they have you.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Sroodle8 said:


> I'm so sorry to hear about your beautiful dogs. Awful. Please continue to update us. I'm glad they have you.


Thank you so much. Should get bile acids back tomorrow to know if Frosty has liver disease or not.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

🙏 🤞


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

All blood work on both dogs is good! PTL!🙏


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

Great news! So where do you go from here?


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Dianaleez said:


> Great news! So where do you go from here?


They are able to get their dentals. Still have to deal with the paroxysmal dyskinesia issue, but there's not much that can be done for that other than trying to keep life as stress-free as possible.


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## NaturalPoodle (Jun 13, 2019)

Joining the conversation a bit late but just wanted to say my prayers are with you and your beloved spoos ❤


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

NaturalPoodle said:


> Joining the conversation a bit late but just wanted to say my prayers are with you and your beloved spoos ❤


Thank you so much, NaturalPoodle. This means a lot to me (and the spoos  ).


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I’m relieved to see there’s nothing else wrong.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Thank goodness on the blood test results and now upcoming dentals!! You can sleep a bit easier now, I hope.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Streetcar said:


> Thank goodness on the blood test results and now upcoming dentals!! You can sleep a bit easier now, I hope.


Yes, I'm very grateful for Frosty not having liver disease! Now to get through the dentals. But this new veterinary hospital I've been taking them to has been wonderful so at least I fully trust them.


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