# Pedigree/color question



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

I was doing my daily pedigree search a few days ago and stumbled on to something I never seen ( well maybe I seen but did not pay attention to it or at the time did not look at the colors in the dog) 

Anyways I ran into a breeding between a red and brn poodle and all the puppies came out black? ( behind the sire and dam is just more brown and red ) 

Has anyone seen this before ( Let me find pedigree because I forgot where I was looking at this info)

Maybe this dog was really blue and not black ?


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Holly's very first litter was a result of her being bred to a brown (before I owned her) and she had ten black puppies. All the breeders I spoke to, other than the one who owned her, said her pups would be black because red and brown are both recessive colours.

The breeder who owned Holly at the time kept two black females from the litter to breed. One if them, in her first litter, went on to produce a very handsome apricot male who has been used quite frequently in their breeding program.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Yes. Remember that a Red Poodle is really part of the Cream spectrum. If a Cream with black pigment (BBee) is bred to a Brown that does not carry cream (bbEE) then the puppies will all be Black and carry both Cream and Brown (BbEe).


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

cbrand said:


> Yes. Remember that a Red Poodle is really part of the Cream spectrum. If a Cream with black pigment (BBee) is bred to a Brown that does not carry cream (bbEE) then the puppies will all be Black and carry both Cream and Brown (BbEe).


Thanks Arreau and Cbrand I dunno why I keep forgetting The BB allele I keep wanting to say browns are dd like a dulite 

It makes sense to me now. When I bred my cats normally with lynx points I will only get lynx points you would not be able to get tabbies not unless on of the parents was tabby and had the recessive gene for lynx points.

This is another question lol So how do you get sables out of two silvers ? I just was at a breeders website and she has beautiful silvers that where bred and a sable puppy came out. 

I like the sable color alot even though its not allowed


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Most of the sables I've seen have come out of Silver breedings. Like Phantoms, I think sometimes Sables clear to look like normal Silvers and then they are used in solid color breeding programs. Once in the pedigree, it will pop up every once in a while.


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## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

My girlfriend had a gorgeous sable, he cam from a litter of 7, 4 solid silvers, 1 phantom and 2 sables, both dam and sire were silver


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

one brown bitch was breed to a cream male, all the pups turn out black.

So is there no way of getting cream dogs from this breeding with brown pigment ?


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## Dogsinstyle (Sep 6, 2009)

The pups from that breeding can produce brown, eps. if bred to a brown.
Carole


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Winnow said:


> one brown bitch was breed to a cream male, all the pups turn out black.
> 
> So is there no way of getting cream dogs from this breeding with brown pigment ?


Not in the first generation, but possibly in the second generation because now all puppies carry both Brown and White. Even then you might not though. My friend breeds Silvers who also carry Brown and White and she has been very lucky to always get correct pigment on her White puppies.


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