# How to get to beautiful heeling



## zooeysmom

Thank you, Catherine! I always enjoy reading your training threads, even though I'm not sure I'll compete in obedience.


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## lily cd re

zooeysmom said:


> Thank you, Catherine! I always enjoy reading your training threads, even though I'm not sure I'll compete in obedience.



That kind of attention works in rally too!


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## zooeysmom

I knew you were going to say that  I'm going to try your method tonight as we go back to class on grass and Frosty's attention is everywhere else...


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## lily cd re

It may take a few sessions, but I think you will like the results. Have fun at class.


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## Skylar

I’m glad you posted this, I find your training posts extremely helpful. I find heeling, real competition heeling is gorgeous to watch when well done and so hard to achieve.


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## lily cd re

Truly beautiful heeling is a joy to see, especially I think with larger dogs who are good movers. The person and the dog both look very fluid when they are connected. My trainer often talks about good heeling as being like dancing where the partners really have a deep level of understanding one another.


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle and I have been working on heeling for competition for almost a year. Attention is where everything starts. Eye contact while sitting in heel position deserves to be rewarded heavily, and reinforced often. 

The Rally sign, One step, sit, two steps, sit, three steps, sit, is ideal for teaching moving while watching you. If you cannot do this sign 100% perfectly, there's no point in moving forward any more steps. 

Delivering treats from your left hand, over the dog's muzzle to the outside of their face, will help line up a crooked rear end. (I was astonished when I learned this trick.)

If you see a mistake... Stop and reset. 

If you see the same mistake over and over, take a deep breath, and remember Vince Lombardi's immortal words to the Green Bay Packers, "Gentlemen, this is a football." 
Go back to basics. Attention while sitting in heel. One step forward, sit. Reward and release.

Do not rush this, do not expect competition style heeling to be perfected in a week or 10 days. It takes weeks - in my case months - of hard work to teach the dog where heel position is, and how to move smoothly at your side. The more I work on heeling, the more I need to work on heeling. But wow is it fun when Noelle gets it. Those moments are pure magic.


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## lily cd re

Click, just yes.


One thing to remember is that heeling is not something that is pre-installed in a dog's brain waiting to be unlocked by simply doing it. It is an alien idea for them so you need to break it down into the smallest pieces possible and work them over and over to give your dog the muscle memory to acquire the smallest bits before you connect them together and take off and do a whole pattern.


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## Click-N-Treat

It's also not pre-installed in our brains, either! I find handler error is a big part of what throws off my dog's rhythm. Today we were heeling and I was listening to music. I chose a song that was too slow, and Noelle was not interested in what I was doing. I switched songs and suddenly I had her attention. FYI, this is Noelle's idea of a normal heeling pace. 






That's quick for walking. Goes to show you that Noelle's idea of a "brisk pace", and my idea of a brisk pace, are not at all related. Noelle wants to move at a peppy pace, which makes my transition to slow her favorite thing to do. This is my song for slow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvThHk-wMRk&frags=pl%2Cwn

As you can imagine, I seriously decelerate on slow! I creep along, humming this song in my head. Then I speed right back up to Rhianna in my head on Normal. Fast is full out running, no need for music, then slow down back to Rhianna. The speed I am walking can make or break Noelle's attention. If I have her attention because I'm moving fast enough to keep it, we're in sync. If I move too slowly on "normal" I lose her. 

Do you step out on your right foot when you heel, or left foot? I was taught left foot first in so many classes. Then Karen, my trainer, told us all to try saying, "Heel" and stepping out with our right foot first. Noelle has played enough follow the left leg games that when I step out with my right foot first, she follows my left leg much better. It's like it gives her a secondary cue that we're moving, and keeps Noelle from lagging from the start. I found that... interesting. Anyone else?


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## Skylar

Click, I didn't understand what you were talking about which foot to heel on.

I was taught to start to heel on the left. When you put your dog in a stay and walk away - then you lead on your right foot. So the left foot is a signal to the dog to heel and the right signals stay.

I have a problem with turning right and left. I don't know my right from my left so somethings I do thinks like hit my right hand hard enough that it stings - that can help me. But I get nervous when the teacher calls right or left and in my nervousness it panic and really struggle with right and left. Frankly I should just let Babykins follow the judge's call of right or left - and I follow her in heel position - could that work?

And it is a magical feeling when you and your dog are completely in sync and your dog is heeling perfectly.


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## lily cd re

I step off for heeling on my left foot and leave for stays and recalls on my right foot. That is what most people do I think,


Skylar my dogs do definitely understand words like right and left or back and such. However, I would not rely on Babykins being the leader to make heeling turns though. If she is leading then she is likely forging. One thing that helps tremendously with those issues is to watch the heeling pattern when the judge shows it and also to watch some people who go in before you if you can so that you can hear the judge call the pattern "live." For those in novice A you will have a briefing where the judge will walk you through it.


Practice turns without your dog as many times as you need to be able to make muscle memory for your footwork. The same concept applies to footwork to cue halts and things like glove pivot footwork.


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## Click-N-Treat

lily cd re said:


> I step off for heeling on my left foot and leave for stays and recalls on my right foot. That is what most people do I think,
> 
> 
> Skylar my dogs do definitely understand words like right and left or back and such. However, I would not rely on Babykins being the leader to make heeling turns though. If she is leading then she is likely forging. One thing that helps tremendously with those issues is to watch the heeling pattern when the judge shows it and also to watch some people who go in before you if you can so that you can hear the judge call the pattern "live." For those in novice A you will have a briefing where the judge will walk you through it.
> 
> 
> Practice turns without your dog as many times as you need to be able to make muscle memory for your footwork. The same concept applies to footwork to cue halts and things like glove pivot footwork.


I was taught to step off on my left foot for heel, and right foot for stay. Then my trainer Karen suggested giving starting off on our right foot a try. If you have dog that lags when you start heeling, starting with your right foot gives them a single step to catch up before you've left them behind to lag.

It felt so weird, but I can see how it would be helpful for a lagging dog.

If you're right handed, when you hear right think WRITE and turn toward your writing hand so you can write right. 

Left is for leash, the side your dog is on.

Leash turn! Write turn!


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## lily cd re

Clever thinking on left and right reminders!


As to stepping off on the right foot I think I have too much muscle memory to possibly make that work for myself. Besides my problem is never lagging on the start of a heeling pattern. Instead I get anticipation and potentially a forge.


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## Skylar

lily cd re said:


> Skylar my dogs do definitely understand words like right and left or back and such. However, I would not rely on Babykins being the leader to make heeling turns though.


haha - I was joking. I know she listens to the judge - we went through a short stage where she would "come" when the judge or trainer said - call your dog.



lily cd re said:


> One thing that helps tremendously with those issues is to watch the heeling pattern when the judge shows it and also to watch some people who go in before you if you can so that you can hear the judge call the pattern "live." For those in novice A you will have a briefing where the judge will walk you through it.
> 
> Practice turns without your dog as many times as you need to be able to make muscle memory for your footwork. The same concept applies to footwork to cue halts and things like glove pivot footwork.


My problem is in training class when the trainer is calling out random things like turn right, turn right, turn right, turn left, about turn, fast, turn left - This is when I struggle. It's random and we're in a group so if you turn right when everyone turns left you can bang into someone. I dread when we do this in class.



Click-N-Treat said:


> I was taught to step off on my left foot for heel, and right foot for stay. Then my trainer Karen suggested giving starting off on our right foot a try. If you have dog that lags when you start heeling, starting with your right foot gives them a single step to catch up before you've left them behind to lag.
> 
> It felt so weird, but I can see how it would be helpful for a lagging dog.
> 
> If you're right handed, when you hear right think WRITE and turn toward your writing hand so you can write right.
> 
> Left is for leash, the side your dog is on.
> 
> Leash turn! Write turn!


Okay, that makes sense - give your dog a chance to get going with you. We've been practicing something to encourage Babykins to heel with me. You start in heel with your dog sitting. Give your signal to move forward and take one or two steps - immediately put your left hand out in front of where your dog should be if the dog is moving properly and ask them to touch then feed a treat. The idea is to get your dog to move toward that treat which means they want to move with you immediately and not lag. 

I do have one trick - I start of write with my hand - then I know that's my right hand. My problem is these tricks take time as your brain figures it out - that's too long - people in class have already turned while I'm still figuring out which is right and left - that delay in my thinking delays my turning. As Catherine points out - in competition you get to see the pattern ahead of time so I just have to remember the pattern. And beginner novice has rally signs so that's not even a problem.

I will try to make the left for leash where my dog is located.


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## Click-N-Treat

Today i learned that Noelle lags on heel when we step off. So, I worked with my trainer, and guess what. Starting off with a half step on my right foot gives Noelle's brain a chance to say, oh, we're heeling now, when I move my left foot. I got a much more together heeling performance when I did that. I must admit, it feels very odd. But, for a dog that lags on the start, it's a huge help. 

I also had a massive handful of imaginary treats. A great big fist of them. Before we started heeling, I teased her with my left hand. Noelle got very excited over the imaginary treats when we were doing our off leash heel. Head up, grinning at me, ready and fired up. With a Newfoundland doing an honor down in the center of the ring, too. She ignored the Newfoundland. Ignored the dog practicing in the open ring next to us. Focused, ready, head up, heel. I stepped off with my right foot (wrong foot?) And Noelle heeled right with me. It was awesome. She got real treats when I was done.

There's nothing quite as rewarding as a beautiful heel.


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## lily cd re

That is really interesting. I have never had issues of lagging on a forward order. If anything and anticipatory forge is more my issue with Javelin so we have practiced set up for heeling a ton recently. He has gotten a lot better about waiting for my order. Every once in a blue moon Lily will get stuck on the sit because she is day dreaming, but that is very rare (rare enough to not do much about it). Click, having read your Noelle thread about you day yesterday, I just want to say I think you have a treasure in Karen. She sounds just fabulous. It is hard to find a great trainer who will look at what you are doing with an objective eye and who will share the smallest bits of what they know with their students.


When I get a chance later I will add a new post to talk about some other thing that is part of heeling. It will either be one type of turn or halts. If you all have a preference as to what is next LMK.


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## Click-N-Treat

Karen charges a ton for private lessons, so I am really, really blessed to get her instruction when she is just volunteering. We have fun together and I make her laugh. She bred apricot poodles for a while, too. She has a soft spot for Noelle and understands how to train poodles. 

Now, on heeling, I'm learning not to stop on dime when the judge says halt. Karen chants in her head, "And sit straight," as she's coming to a stop on halt. Those two extra steps help a lot. If Noelle is paying attention, our right turns are wonderful. Left turns she can go wide on leash. Off leash, she stays with me better.

I lost Noelle on the about turn off leash. She kept heeling forward, and I was going the other way. Karen said, "Tell your dog to heel again and take the point off. It's just a point!" If I was after high scores that would matter. Novice A? Oh, who cares! I'll gladly take a combined score of 170.5, thank you very much. 

About turn footwork, games, ideas?


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## lily cd re

Okay then about turns it is. For any changes from normal forward heeling you have to build in ways to have pre-cues that aren't actually mark offs as extra orders. For turns it is your foot work and where you should be looking, into the turn and not looking to see where the dogs is in other words.


To tell the dog an about turn is coming turn your head to the right as you hear the order. If you look towards your left to see where the dog is you will cause it to lag. You want to show the dog that it has to drive to keep at heel. As you start the turn take a left foot step where you put your foot at a 45 deg angle in front of your right foot. Your right foot will then turn you around on your hips because you will turn the right foot in your new direction. Your last step will bring your left foot around to the new direction and square your hips back over your feet. As you do that return your head posture to look forward. Practice first with the perfectly performing invisible dog on an imaginary leash to get yourself some muscle memory. Then put something a little weighty on a leash or piece of twine. Watch from the corner of your eye what the weight does. Does it just come along with you or does it flare out or swing up in front of you? You want it to come along with you. Other movements suggest that your are throwing your body in ways that could possibly look like extra cues in the eyes of a judge with a sharp pencil.


Now that you have all that down, get a real dog on a real leash. Remember really beautiful heeling is always heads up. The dog needs to learn to trust that you aren't going to step on them or otherwise interfere with them to know they don't need to look away from you to make this big change in direction. Break the turn down into parts. Heel towards it and give your head cue. Give a treat for the dog heads up looking up but turning its head. Repeat repeat repeat. Now heel towards the turn and start into it slowly with your head turn and the left foot cue. Stop and look at the dog and give a treat if it is still heads up and in position. Repeat repeat repeat. Now heel towards the turn and turn your head, turn your left foot and bring your right foot into the new direction of travel. Check that the dog has its head up and is in position and give a treat if it is. I would couple giving the treats to a yes and a good marker. Yes means here is a treat. Good means that's right but keep going. If at any point the dog drops its head or goes out of heel then give it an oops or uh oh and restart the whole thing. Turns are just like straight lines, not pre-programmed all taught from scratch. So you do have to note when you see something that is wrong and then help the dog to understand what is right. If the dog wants to drop its head help it to know that isn't right by keeping a cookie on its nose. For all aspects of heeling as you are teaching I find it is very helpful to have string cheese peeled into long strips. Hold a strip between your index and middle finger of your left hand so the dog sees it by looking to the correct place you want it to look for heeling all of the time. To fade the food lure you will eventually dnagle the strip of cheese out of the left corner of your mouth and after that just put precut bits of cheese in your mouth so the dog can't see it but so that you can easily dispense a treat along with your "YES!" marker.


It often helps the dog to slow your pace to a slow as you teach the pieces and then bring the whole turn together. To help you know you are really making an about turn and not looping a sloppy right hander put a set of three or four cones fairly close together in a straight line to form a guide for the approach to and exit from the turn.


I think that is about it for about turns! Have fun.


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## mashaphan

Catherine,i think you should come teach in upstate:adore:. I feel like I am getting nowhere with Otter!

Martha


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## lily cd re

Martha it will come. He is still a baby boy and they can be jerks. You should try to plan to come to Top Dog next year for either the foundations workshop in June or the Intermediate workshop in August (both in 2019). Stacey and Mick have done the Advanced and Stacey took Ivy to the Intermediate this summer. https://www.poodleforum.com/24-perf...anced-notice-some-great-workshops-2019-a.html


I was very thrilled on Sunday when Bonnie B (you know who I mean I think, border collies and OTChs) complimented Javelin's heeling. It meant a lot given who said it. Despite that he still drops his head on abouts sometimes.


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## Charleeann67:)

Thank you Catherine! I was going to ask a question in a new thread but I think it belongs here.
I've been working with Rudy using Recallers. He is so social, loves everybody and every dog. (just doesn't like horses at least on TV) Anyway, there is a pet fair this weekend and it says "well behaved pets welcome". He is not aggressive but he also does not walk calmly on a leash when there are other dogs around, he just wants to play with them. On one hand I want to take him for the experience around other dogs but on the other hand, I want to go for the information and having him with would be a distraction. Thoughts? Input?


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## lily cd re

That is a tough call. I probably would not take Rudy if I was not going to be willing or able to leave early if it was too much for him. If you can carry him or if it would be safe to leave him in your car then I might try for a while and keep on top of what is happening.


I have had Lily at Pet Fairs where we were working as demonstrators. In between the demos we manned a table for the organization we were representing. One time we had a really strange man approach. The first time there was a woman with him who told him he had to ask me if he could pet her. I said yes and it went okay. He reappeared alone a little while later and went to pet her without asking. Since I always watch carefully I told him to stop just as she gave him a really meaningful growl. I have no doubts she would have given serious consideration to biting his hand had he not withdrawn it. Lily was probably about three years old, so psychologically very well developed. She suffered no ill effects as a result, but I woudl have been very concerned about trying to undo that experience were she a youngling at the time. In other words you have to really be prepared to micromanage the environmental experience for it to be beneficial.


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## Charleeann67:)

thank you again Catherine! Rudy is so friendly and because of his confidence and socialization he thinks the world is his and his alone. I took him to a co-worker's graduation party last weekend and gave everyone treats so that he sat for everyone when he approached them and then he gave them kisses. Inside, there was a 7 month old puppy he played with for at least a half hour.
I'm thinking I'll take him but I have a dog stroller that way I have an alternative to walking and he can be protected and at the same time participate. Again, very open to your experienced thoughts.


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## snow0160

I am revisiting this thread because it is the foundation for everything. Heeling is easy but heeling with perfect precision is something that takes many repetitions and practice. Communicating with your dog while heeling is very important. Lucky still needs a lot of work in this area. I am going to try and practice a few times a day. Thank you for starting this thread!


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## lily cd re

snow, thanks for bringing this thread back up to the top. It reminds me that I should add something. Also let us know how things are going with practicing your about turns. We can troubleshoot if anyone needs another approach.

How about right turns next? Remember for right turns as with about turns your dog will be on the outside of the turn. The tendency therefore will be for the dog to lag and/or go wide on the turn. The key for all turns if to give body cues to tell the dog the turn is coming while still not changing your pace. The foot work for the right turn starts as for the about turn you will plant your right foot and then turn your left foot roughly 45 deg. into the turn. At the same time turn your left shoulder and head into the turn. Complete it by taking your next right foot step in your new direction of travel. If you want to give your dog an additional bit of help with the right turn do it at an inside corner wall or ring gate area so the dog is between you and the wall or gate. This will keep them from going wide on the turn.


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## snow0160

The foot work is gonna require me to practice it with my invisible dog. Lol. For rally, I know it is all bout how you angle your feet. I am a terrible dancer so I need to practice as much as Lucky. 

ETA: we’ve been practicing in a long hall. The liver treats I’ve made last night has helped tremendously in keeping him motivated! As strange as it sounds my tibial posterior tendinitis keeps me from working longer than 20 min at a time. We break frequently and my foot problem made me realize how important it is to take breaks.


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## lily cd re

Oh definitely practice with the invisible perfectly heeling dog to get your foot work right. Heeling is hard for the dog because it is not a concrete discrete behavior like sit or down. It is hard for us because we have to "dance" with them in a way that we are being coordinated and communicating effectively without talking them through it.

I know how you feel about how long you can work on this stuff in one shot. I have a bum knee and other achy joints and I also don't practice heeling in sessions any longer than ten minutes. Thankfully the heeling portion of a novice routine only lasts about 3-4 minutes tops (including the heel on leash, figure eight and the heel free) and has a couple of short intermissions.


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## Click-N-Treat

When you heel where do you look? Are you looking at the dog, at where you're going, or a combination of both? Is it easier with a big dog? Noelle's head is around my knee so I can't see her at all without turning my head.


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## lily cd re

I keep my head facing forward when going straight and look generally at the floor about four feet in front of me. While doing that I can take an eye flick glance to my left without moving my head to check that I still have a heeling dog, but generally don't do so since I almost never heel off leash to practice and will feel the dog go out of position through the leash. I turn my head to pre cue turns. You have to trust the judge not to heel you into a wall or crashing into the ring gate.


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## snow0160

Yes training a little dog is hard bc of the bending. We’ve been practicing focus while heeling. Kit does this automatically but Lucky needs a lot of work. 


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## lily cd re

But you shouldn't be bending to teach a small dog to heel. Heeling (if that is really what you want vs. loose leash manners) is heeling and you should be standing up straight. With small dogs you have to teach them a different focal point on your body. For a dog like a spoo they can be at heel and look to your face and make eye contact. For my friends who have lovely heeling with Pomeranians and Chihuahuas the dogs are taught to focus their contact at the handlers pant seam at the height of their knee. If you need a target to show the dog the correct position while teaching use a long handled wooden spoon with a bit of peanut butter on it, but stand up straight.


For other things you are training to a small dog, get a big empty paint pail with a lid from Lowes or HD and sit on the bucket with the dog in front of you if you don't want to bend over. And you shouldn't want to bend over since for most dogs (all sizes) having a person hovering over them pushes them into backing away because they are trying to find your face.


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## Click-N-Treat

Yes, I can feel Noelle's position through the leash, which is really useful. I'll try glancing at her instead of maintaining constant focus, which throws my back out of balance and probably makes me walk like I'm drunk.


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## snow0160

I use a target stick for heel work with my pom. My problem is when I say “down” while heeling. This requires me to bend down with a hand motion to the floor for some of my dogs. Our instructor didn’t like that and now I’ve been practicing no bending down. Only Lucky will go down without bending. The others require a lure. Kit is very very slow moving so she needs me to bend and point to the floor. Not sure how to fix this.

ETA: we might just need more practice


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## lily cd re

Yes snow, more practice. 

I have been practicing position changes (sit, down, stand) with Javelin for the open command discrimination (C.D.) exercise. I taught him to put his two front feet on a target. I have two of them, one is a 2 by 4 with carpet glued onto the four inch sides. His front feet therefore are two inches off the floor and he will be very aware of moving them off the board. The other is very thin (about 3/4 inch thick and only about 1 1/2" wide. It is wrapped with vet wrap to make it non skid. I will transition him onto this one once things are very reliable on the big block.

The first part of the C.D. exercise is to order your dog to a stand, down or sit with them at heel so you teach those three positions with the dog keeping its front feet on the board and the dog at your left side in proper heel. then you teach those positions standing in front of the dog. You should teach each of them separately with verbals and signals. Lily's signals at heel for sit, down and stand are as follows (all done with left hand): sit = raise left forearm with open palm facing forward (like most people's sit signal); drop is moving my forearm downward over her head and slightly in front of her again with an open palm (if continued without her dropping I would end up tapping her on the forehead) and stand is left forearm with open palm pointing down moving from above and in front of her head flat backwards. Javelin's signals will be the same.


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## snow0160

This is very similar to to advanced obedience at the service dog school. The only difference is probably the signs. Paul and I have been having some disagreement over signs and it probably confuses the dogs. We’ve also been working on a target. Our target is a short ikea child stool that might be too small for both paws and too tall. Lucky does not like stepping on it. I’m going to try your idea with a different object. 


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## lily cd re

You and Paul have to get on the same page about orders and signals. Since BF doesn't do anything to formally train the poodles there are certain words and signals I do not encourage him to use because I don't want his casual use to poison the order, but if you have two people actively working with the same dog(s) everything has to be consistent to be fair to them.


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## lily cd re

Click-N-Treat said:


> Yes, I can feel Noelle's position through the leash, which is really useful. I'll try glancing at her instead of maintaining constant focus, which throws my back out of balance and probably makes me walk like I'm drunk.



Oh sure, anything that takes your shoulders out of being squared over your hips is going to put the dog out of position. It also makes it harder for you to move in a straight line. If you are always wobbly on your path forward the dog will work to try and stay out of your way and will tend to end up wide. This is something I have to always practice. My stiff knee and creaky ankles tend to have me walking the drunkard's path quite often. Anyplace there are lines on the seams of floor tiles, mats or patterns in carpets I practice heeling in a straight line (dog or no dog).


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## Click-N-Treat

Oh, I thought I was the only one walking in a straight line through a store because there's a stripe on the floor. I'll keep doing this, and practice heeling with my leash clasp in my pocket. If my feet know what to do, I'll lead my dog better. 

I had a very hard time learning to walk slowly. It takes trunk muscles that I don't have complete use of to maintain my balance. Disability complicates the heeling pattern for sure.


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## lily cd re

If you feel you need to you can talk to the judge before the class starts and let him/her know that you have a problem with pace changes and particularly the slow. They will make allowances. The AKC obedience rules specify that disable handlers can have their needs accommodated. I've seen people in wheel chairs do rally and people with canes in obedience.


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## snow0160

How do you do side step heel and heeling with you while moving backwards? 

My rally class seems to be monitored but it isn’t really a traditional class. People come in for practice. Do you ask a classmate for demonstrations or teaching advice? 


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## lily cd re

Side step is just that you take a side step to the right and as you are doing that call the dog to get close or whatever your order is for getting into heel position. I assume that is the "Moving Side Step Right" sign you are talking about.


The back up three steps while dog remains in position is an excellent sign. the way most people teach it is to put a cookie in your left hand and hold it in front of the dog's nose while you take the 3 steps backwards. Teach and practice it in a narrow hall so the dog can't just swing around in front of you. I say "back back back" for Lily but I also know someone who does a pretty darn good imitation of the backup alert tone on a truck too.


These exercises aren't really heeling though, right?


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## snow0160

I want Lucky to back up more than 3 steps and side step more than one step. This is useful maneuvering around a narrow grocery aisle. The problem with the back up is he sits after a few steps. With the side step, it is more of a diagonal step for us. 


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## Caddy

I use the "back" command too, but what a great idea to imitate a backup beeper. Lol, I just tried it and the girls jumped up and looked around, think I'll stick to the "back" command.


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## Skylar

Snow, for the side step, use your hand to guide Lucky. You should be able to side step for as many times as you need if you guide Lucky - remind him where heel is and that you want him to keep returning to heel position. 

Diagonal heeling shouldn't be a problem either - again use your hand to guide him, or hold his leash close to your body to encourage him to keep in heel.

As for backing up - some dogs just seem to back up nice and straight naturally. I'm so jealous. My Babykins goes to one side, crooked and it looks awful. I tried to train Babykins to back up 10' for her trick dog testing. I gave up and moved onto other tricks. 

We do the three step back in heel for rally, and I practice that all the time along a wall or fence. When I leave the wall or fence we go crooked. I do find if you use food to lure Lucky back - which is a popular way to train this move - be very careful where you keep the food so he's going back straight and hold your hand so he doesn't sit down. If you lift your hand up a little, he will quickly sit.


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## snow0160

I’m going to practice tomorrow with a ring rental and bringing Paul. We will post some videos of the heel work and signs we really need to work on.


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## snow0160

I’ve been drooling over this kind of heel work


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## lily cd re

snow0160 said:


> I’ve been drooling over this kind of heel work
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H5dbE8O1B3g


My posts here are about getting that kind of heeling. Rally tricks are very very different. Can we talk about those things separately? I will recommend the AKC's rally signs videos, but am also happy to describe how I have trained those things in another thread.


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## snow0160

I apologize. I didn’t know AKC obedience and rally were different with heelwork. I am pretty clueless when it comes to the specific rules concerning either program. 


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## lily cd re

There is actually very little real heeling in rally, just enough to connect the signs and that is part of why many serious obedience folks don't like rally is that they think it negatively impacts their obedience heeling. No need for apologies, I just like to be clear about what we are talking about. And really truly most people never need to do good or great heeling in every day life or even in rally. I have Javelin at my side all day long, but he rarely has to heel. He just has to stay next to me, keep the leash loose and offer frequent check ins. I will start another thread so people can ask about rally signs.


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## Click-N-Treat

In those videos, those dogs are six and 11 years old. And they still practice heeling. It's kind of beautiful to watch, but I see the dog's necks cranked all the way up like that, I wonder how comfortable that is for the dog? I like for Noelle to be heads up and smiling, but not, how can I put this, vertical. 

Catherine, do you like this vertical heads up style of heeling? Is this something you strive for? I want Noelle and me to be connected and in sync but also look natural doing it.


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## reraven123

I believe that style is just how they do it in England. A long time ago a couple of people from my training club went to compete there and had to train their dogs to heel that way because that is what the judges expect there.


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## Click-N-Treat

That makes sense. I understand how to train for that, if you are interested. You start with your dog next to you and lift a treat up until you get that head position you want, and click, treat. Use a treat in your hand three times. Then use a pretend treat to get the behavior you want. Repeat this until the dog begins offering the behavior. Jackpot for offering the behavior. Name the behavior. Proof the behavior by if the dog looks away, interrupt with a interruption sound, (nope, whoops, nah-ah) when the correct behavior returns, reward again, but don't click. Otherwise you'll teach your dog you want to look away and look back.
Gradually build up the length of time where the dog makes eye contact in the right position. From there take one step, hold position, reward, release. 

The tempting mistake with any kind of heeling is moving too fast. If you put in the time it takes to work on attention and eye contact up front, you'll have less to correct when you're moving together. Moving together will flow from eye contact and practice. The rally sign, one step sit, two steps sit, three steps sit creates a wonderful foundation for heeling with continuous unbroken eye contact. Spend twice as much time reinforcing stationary eye contact as moving eye contact in the beginning, and then randomly.


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## lily cd re

No I don't want vertical heads up and nobody I know who does great heeling (OTCh level) does. I want to be able to make and keep eye contact. When you have a taller dog or are yourself not terribly tall this is easy to do. If you are very tall or have a very small dog then the dog's focus point usually has to be at the level of the handler's knee. If we did tons of that vertical heads up I think I would be taking the poodles to the chiropractor. I also have a hard time seeing how positive based training could make and maintain that since I think many dogs would resist because of discomfort.


Here is a link to a short video that has some ring entrance and exit work and some work against a wall for halts from heeling. In parts of it you can't really see Javelin's head too well, but I think you can see the position I expect. I will try to make something better and post it here soon.


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## Click-N-Treat

I'm glad you pointed that out, Catherine, because I've seen dogs doing that in my classes and it looks so unnatural. When want my dog to heel, the picture in my head is what a National Obedience Champion looks like in the ring. 






Handler and NOC Tyler move as one. This is what I want Noelle's heeling to look like some day.


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## lily cd re

Notice that Petra essentially micromanaged Tyler between exercises. Their work is beautiful, but my understanding is that Tyler is a little bit of a tough dog and that Petra therefore heels him even for in between exercises or has him very static while waiting for orders between exercises.


Here is a different style of dog and between exercises management from a multiple time NOC participant and multiple OTCh handler, Betsy Scapicchio (who just earned another OTCh the weekend after the advanced workshop Javelin and I did with her and Linda Brennan (also multiple NOC/OTCh and Westminster obedience winner). You will see that Betsy plays with Dealer between exercises to keep him connected. You can also see his position for his beautiful heeling.


For Javelin since he goes up on his own my management is a bit more in the Petra direction, but for Lily we trend more in the Betsy direction.


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## lily cd re

snow0160 said:


> I’ve been drooling over this kind of heel work
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H5dbE8O1B3g



I just looked again at this video. I am not drooling. There are a number of things that would not fly in the US (elbow out/hand on hip and the abnormal head position on the dog with the woman wearing the lighter colored jacket). That woman's dog is ready to go over the top as can be seen by the bouncing and irregular pace the dog is offering. Although that is Crufts and obviously a big deal I think we can see lots better work looking at people like Petra Ford, Betsy Scapicchio and Linda Brennan. I consider myself very fortunate to have direct and indirect access to Betsy and Linda's experience and training through their workshops and because my private trainer takes her privates with Linda.


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## Click-N-Treat

I think that style of heeling is causing the one dog to prance instead of walk because his balance is thrown off. Also, um, crowding. I like to have daylight between my dog and my leg. 

My management style with Noelle in the ring is 90% the first video and 10% the second. Because Noelle is young yet, if I was to do too much happy happy joy joy, I'd get zoomies. But, Noelle does enjoy a little love between exercises. Also, I think that comes from service dog work being trained first. I taught Noelle to be calm and attentive and to follow my movements.

We can learn a lot from these videos. I'm so grateful for amazing trainers. I strive to be one someday.


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## Click-N-Treat

Sometimes Noelle will prance if I get my pace set at poodle prance speed. I look down at a prancing dog who is doing this out of sheer joy and giggle. 

I watched the video of Betsy Scapicchio again. WOW. Heeling like that is just... wow. Natural, fluid, fun and full of playful spirit. We heel together because heeling is fun! AKC rules say our dogs should be showing enjoyment. Dealer loves this. Wow!


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## lily cd re

All of Betsy's dogs work like that and she has a new OTCh with her youngest golden, but also shows border collies and chihuahuas.


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=UUksPlXQbbPh0ri2SZn1wZwg


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## lily cd re

I just went back into some of my older videos and found this which has work on turns in it. It is from over a year ago and Javelin isn't great in all of it, but it does show where we have come from.


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## Click-N-Treat

He's come a long way. Such a lovely dog. I think you're right about ring management. He has such exuberance that keeping the spirit of who he is, with the self control he needs to perform, must be a difficult balance. You want him to show off his joy, just at less RPMs so to speak. That's got to be challenging. Noelle's problem is inattention. I lose her focus and then she's... gone, sniffing the floor, scratching herself, looking puzzled about what is happening. But, I can over stimulate her, too and then we have the opposite problem. For me, I think ring management between exercises has to be something like touch the hand, or some silly rally task she enjoys, before Noelle has a chance to think of checking out. Noelle really likes doing Schutzhund turns, one step sit... and call front, return to heel, too. 

I was watching the moving stand exercise and had to laugh. I didn't realize that was part of utility. I do that all the time as a fun game for Noelle to play. I'll heel and suddenly for no reason tell her to stay and walk away. She thinks it's so much fun. It's just part of making heeling more interesting for the dog.


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## Raven's Mom

I am trying to go back through all these videos as I get started working with Wren. I feel like a made a lot of mistakes with Raven that did kill her joy and do not want to repeat them. I have made myself a little too anxious now, though and I am having trouble getting started for fear of doing something wrong. I did want to take time to get to know him and build a fun bond, but now I want to get past my mental bock! 

I am also going back to fundamentals with Raven to try and get better attention. We tried to finish out RE title last weekend and she walked in the ring gate and lost her mind. She had seemed so relaxed and warmed up well and the course was made for her so I was really confident we would be fine. It all went out the window and I withdrew at the 4 the sign because I could tell I was not going to get her back. We were the only team of 29 that NQ’d, a great confidence booster. 

On a positive note, Raven came back that same day (our Rally class was at 10 and we went in the Novice night at 3:30 tired and hungry) from our Rally disaster, and got her first Q in Novice! It was ugly and we really didn’t deserve it, but the judge was wonderfully supportive of of Novice A folks, we squeaked by with 174, which was both embarrassing and exciting. This was our 4th attempt in Novice and have always NQ’d in the heel free because she doesn’t stay focused, looks away, and gets separated from me. Finally we actually made it to the sits and downs which she is good at!

I had just about decided to retire her from obedience, which was tearing me up, and this made me reconsider. Maybe we just need more work on the basics?


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## lily cd re

When I find things are not looking great I always refresh the foundations! Five cookie game, working on turns, pace changes, everything!!! My big thing right now is I don't like the shoes that work well for Lily for Javelin and therefore my footwork is a mess.


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## lily cd re

Raven's Mom here are a couple of my YouTube videos related to attention and heeling. They might be helpful to you. Make sure you read the descriptions with each of the videos.


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