# Fromm Food



## kimstm (Jun 24, 2010)

Hi,

I had started my puppy on Fromm Puppy Gold b/c I accidentally bought that bag instead of the Puppy Gold Large Breed. I need to get more food today and I was comparing the differences between the two foods.

Puppy--27 protein; fat 18; omega 6 2.9; omega 3 .5; taurine .12

Puppy Large-- 26 protein; fat 14; omega 6 2.3; omega 3 .4; no taurine

I have emailed Fromm asking about why it is missing taurine in the large breed puppy or if it was omitted accidentally on the site.

The calcium (1.3) and phosphorus (1.0) is the same for both.

Several people in past posts have suggested large breed puppy or just adult food. However, considering the calcium and phosphorus levels are the same, should I just stick with the puppy instead of large breed puppy since there is a little extra fat and protein and the taurine?

She will be 10 weeks tomorrow. She is around 10 lbs and 12-13 inches if I measured correctly at the withers. I can feel her ribs and the indentions between them. I mention this b/c I am wondering if she needs to eat a little more b/c I had read if you can feel the indentions between her ribs she may be a little underweight. 

Also, what other types of bones do you rec.? She is not impressed with Nylabone regular or edible. 

Thanks!

Kim


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Well, how hard are you pressing? I can feel Henry's and Millie's rib indentations if I press with my hand while feeling their ribs. The idea is that you don't want ribs jutting out. From the picture you posted a week or so ago, your puppy did NOT look overweight.

Also, because your puppy has 1 extremely large parent, I would def. recommend either LB puppy or even switching to adult. The reason I say this is because your puppy has the potential to grow extremely tall (taller than 27") and if it happens too fast, your puppy could be in LOTS of pain and have hip troubles later on.

But, don't obsess about it. If you are offering your puppy plenty of food, I guarantee she is not underweight. 

As far as bones go..have you tried bully sticks?


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

I raise (wean) my puppies and have my adults always on adult food (NO puppy food here)
I use Fromm Salmon A LA Veggies for both weaning my puppies, feeding my bitch during her gestation and also for my house dogs and show dogs.
The food is AWSOME.
I try to get away from the chicken and beef in dog food because of the way cows are raised and farmed here. so I opt to give them a fish based diet.
Both Lola and Cole have OFA HIps Excellent and both were on Fromm Salmon A La Veggies since very young. I have been using Fromm for many years and am absolutely thrilled with the results.
My dogs are also allergic to chicken so fish was the choice. 
If you use Fromm the FOUR stars, you have 4-5 varieties and can switch back and forth from salmon to pork to duck to surf and turf etc..
Your puppy does NOT have to be on puppy food... He or she will do very well on a 26% protein diet.
Personally I prefer the quality of the Four star Fromm over the Gold . It costs a bit more, but I believe is better quality and you have 4 types to choose from and/or you can use all the four and your dog will not get an upset stomach (since it is made by the same company)


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Also, what other types of bones do you rec.? She is not impressed with Nylabone regular or edible. 

Thanks!

Kim[/QUOTE]

Kim, I give my dogs raw bones. I go to my butcher and purchase (NO MARROW bones, they will break your dog's teeth also too much fat).
I get the hip bone, Knuckle.. they love it.. I send them to my yard and let them chew on them for hours. But you will have to get them from a good butcher and one that is clean in his shop. Wash them at home freeze ones you dont want to use. Even if they chew it and leave it aside, put it back in the fridge and give to them next time. If they start to smell throw them out.


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## kimstm (Jun 24, 2010)

If I decided to switch to the Fromm's 4 Star do I need to mix it with the Fromm's Puppy Gold or can I go straight to the 4 star?

As for as the indentions, I don't have to press, I can just feel them. She is very fluffy, but I really think she is an okay weight, but after reading about the indentions I just thought I would ask.

Does her height/weight seem around average? I have seen on here that some of these puppies weigh 20 lbs or more at 13 weeks, 30 lbs at 15 weeks, 34 lbs at 16 weeks. I can't even imagine her being anywhere near that so maybe these are extremes and not the norm.

Thanks for the responses!

Kim


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

kimstm said:


> If I decided to switch to the Fromm's 4 Star do I need to mix it with the Fromm's Puppy Gold or can I go straight to the 4 star?As for as the indentions, I don't have to press, I can just feel them. She is very fluffy, but I really think she is an okay weight, but after reading about the indentions I just thought I would ask.
> 
> Does her height/weight seem around average? I have seen on here that some of these puppies weigh 20 lbs or more at 13 weeks, 30 lbs at 15 weeks, 34 lbs at 16 weeks. I can't even imagine her being anywhere near that so maybe these are extremes and not the norm.
> 
> ...


Kim:
Even if it is still Fromm, it is not part of the 4 star family so I would advise to yes, switch slowly over a one week period increasing the new food while decreasing the Gold one, until you are totally on Fromm 4 star.
You can purchase one month or every 3 months one flavor and then next bag of food or next 2 bags you can switch to a different flavor between the 4. This is the advantage with the Fromm 4 star you can switch back and forth and your dogs get a variety of nutrition not only salmon or chicken.. but duck and white fish, etc... I LOVE the Surf and Turf and I would feed it to my dogs, however it is a tad high in protein and it is also preserved wtih CITRIC ACID which is not good for large breeds as Citric Acid is known to exacerbate bloat and torsion so I avoid it. I just feed the four stars 4 flavors. They are also cheaper than the surf and turf. (30% protein too high for me or weaning large breed pups on).
Hope this helps

Also it is a bit too much in my opinion for a 13 weeks old puppy to weigh 20 pounds.. I have some big poodles and I never had one weigh 20 pounds at 13 weeks. But each line is different there is no text book in this respect.


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## kimstm (Jun 24, 2010)

Hi,

Thanks for the responses. I was completely out of the puppy so I bought the large breed puppy and have samples of the fromm 4 star so I can switch over. I believe Fromm is no longer using citric acid in their foods. I had called them about this when I first got my puppy b/c I was thinking I would need to wet her food for awhile and I had read that wasn't good with the citric acid. The sample I had said it had citric acid, but it was the old packaging. The new packaging doesn't have it listed and I didn't notice on the Fromm Surf and Turf either on the site. Fromm is making things even better.

Thanks again for your help!!!

Kim


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

kimstm said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for the responses. I was completely out of the puppy so I bought the large breed puppy and have samples of the fromm 4 star so I can switch over. I believe Fromm is no longer using citric acid in their foods. I had called them about this when I first got my puppy b/c I was thinking I would need to wet her food for awhile and I had read that wasn't good with the citric acid. The sample I had said it had citric acid, but it was the old packaging. The new packaging doesn't have it listed and I didn't notice on the Fromm Surf and Turf either on the site. Fromm is making things even better.
> 
> ...


Kim:
Are you SURE ?? If this is the case I will put my pregnant female in future on Surf and Turf.
The ONLY food out of Fromm that I have seen preserved wtih Citric Acid was Surf and Turf NONE others. The salmon white fish, and others of the 4 stars are not preserved wtih Citric Acid ONLY Surf and Turf.. that was why I did not use it but am using the other flavors all the time.. Check to see you will note that the Surf and Turf is the only one with the citric acid whereas the other flavors are not preserved with this.
Please let me know if indeed the Surf and Turf is no longer preserved with the Citric A. When have you spoken to the rep last? If you do again ask them if they are continuing the same preservative for Surf and Turf.
Let me know please. thanx.


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## kimstm (Jun 24, 2010)

This is the Surf and Turf ingredient list. I also emailed the rep. I was speaking to earlier just to verify about the citric acid. I spoke to them last about it 3 weeks ago, but not specifically about Surf and Turf. I will let you know when I hear back from him.

Fromm Family Foods - Four-Star Grain-Free Surf & Turf for dogs

Kim


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Kim - I looked up Henry and Millie's weights to give you a ballpark. At 10 weeks Millie weighed 15 pounds and at 12 weeks she weighed 18 pounds and at 16 weeks 25 pounds. She was the largest in her litter and her dam was about 25 inches and sire 24 inches. Her ribs have always been palpable but not protruding. If I press, I have always been able to feel some indentation, but not a lot. I feed her 2 cups daily of Innova LB puppy.

Henry was 17 pounds at 12 weeks and was 20.5 pounds at 13ish weeks (hello growth spurt! WOW!) and 30 pounds at 16 weeks. He is a tall adult boy now at 26 inches tall and 60 pounds. Don't remember how is ribs felt!

So, even in my case my two spoos grew at incredibly different rates. Henry grew rapidly, and Millie started off bigger but grew more slowly and steadily. I honestly think that you are a very conscientious owner and that you are providing her with excellent nutrition. I doubt your puppy would be underweight, but if you are concerned perhaps take her to the vet? Every puppy grows at a different rate so it is very difficult to compare to others. As long as she is growing steadily, the numbers do not matter. 

Best of luck and keep me posted


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## kimstm (Jun 24, 2010)

ChocolateMillie said:


> Kim - I looked up Henry and Millie's weights to give you a ballpark. At 10 weeks Millie weighed 15 pounds and at 12 weeks she weighed 18 pounds and at 16 weeks 25 pounds. She was the largest in her litter and her dam was about 25 inches and sire 24 inches. Her ribs have always been palpable but not protruding. If I press, I have always been able to feel some indentation, but not a lot. I feed her 2 cups daily of Innova LB puppy.
> 
> Henry was 17 pounds at 12 weeks and was 20.5 pounds at 13ish weeks (hello growth spurt! WOW!) and 30 pounds at 16 weeks. He is a tall adult boy now at 26 inches tall and 60 pounds. Don't remember how is ribs felt!
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for taking the time to look up the information. I really appreciate it. She had a ton of hookworms when I first brought her home, but is over that now and has steadily been putting on weight. I don't know if hookworms slow weight gain or not. My vet lives next door so I will ask her to feel her, but she didn't seem concerned the last time I was there b/c she has steadily been gaining. I have been feeding her 1.5 cups per day split over 3 times a day and she eats it like she hasn't eaten in days. The 1.5 was the max limit on the bag. Did you feed yours the max amount on the bag? I just want to make sure I am not underfeeding her. I know her parents are on the larger side and she was the biggest female in the litter, but right now she doesn't seem to be comparing to some of the other spoo pups out there that have smaller parents. I say that not b/c I think she has to compare with the others b/c all I want is for her to be healthy and happy. I only mention that b/c I don't want her to be underfed. My husband and I did the weigh us/weigh her and one of us showed 11 lbs difference and on 11.5 lbs difference and she is 10 weeks today. Like you said, she is growing steadily. She seems content, active, and healthy.

Do y'all take water away for a certain amount of time before and after eating? When she drinks water she drinks it like she hasn't had water in days. I don't have a water bottle set up on her crate, but I am thinking about putting her there during the day since she has done well with crate training and so she will learn how to use it. I would remove it at night. Thoughts???

I taught her to sit in about 5 minutes. She is so darn smart. LOL I am going to teach her something new today.

Kim


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Kim:
I looked at the Surf and Turf ingredients.. YES (and this is wonderful news) they did change the preservative and are now using Tocopherols. 
I will start purchasing this again inspite of its cost as I believe this is fantastic food. I will add it to my dogs' food list again.
Thanks for the info.


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## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

Both Foxxy and Baldr are on Fromms Salmon a la veg, and Baldr was on the adult food from puppydom.

Foxxy had chronic ear infections, regardless of the hi quality foods I put her on, until Fromms.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I wish Fromms was sold near me!


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

ChocolateMillie said:


> I wish Fromms was sold near me!


Me too. A lot of people order it. I feed Raw, but the health and coat benefits of this brand I have heard is amazing. I wouldn't mind feeding from time to time is it improved coat.


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## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

ChocolateMillie said:


> I wish Fromms was sold near me!


I have my local feed and seed order it specifically for me, I have a standing order 
Talk to your local pet food store or feed and seed maybe they will order for you


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## kimstm (Jun 24, 2010)

ChocolateMillie and Olli---The place I buy it from was not listed on the Fromm website as a distributor. You might try calling pet suppy stores and asking. Just thought I would mention this just in case you just looked at the site for locations.

Kim


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Olie & Chocmillie:

You can google Fromm pet food and I am sure you will find a distributor near you, if not ask them to ship it to you , they do. I have clients who cant find Fromm near their area and they have it shipped.

Also I wanted to mention that all my dogs have been raised on Fromm Salmon Veggies from puppyhood to adulthood and they have excellent coats and great substance.
Lola and Cole who were recently bred are both, HIPS OFA : EXCELLENT and their coats and general health is amazing so to have two excellent OFA hips is no small feat and I am happy I did this on Fromm. Yes it is genetic ofcourse but also due to good quality food which dictates how bones develope in the dog from puppyhood to adulthood. I never heard of soft stool or abdominal problems in dogs who are on Fromm food, I mean the 4 star Fromm.


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