# learning tricks with no treats



## SolaTee (Jan 3, 2015)

hello everyone, i would like some poodle advice. 
My mini is just under 1.5 and i would like to teach him some new skills. i know i should have done this earlier but with his medical issues, i haven't.
He knows the basic commands, and is a really good dog, however i know he could do more than he knows. I was thinking of trying agility, or flyball, or just doing tricks..
Which do people think is a good introduction to more skills?

He is incredibly fussy as well, and doesn't take treats most of the time when training, even chicken or cheese etc, he just turns his nose up at it.
Has anyone else experienced this? and what did you do to reward if not with food?


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## Newmum (Jan 2, 2014)

What does your dog like? Voice praise? Fetching a ball or playing tug? Ear scratches? Give him attention in whatever way you know he likes as a reward.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

I have used a toy/ tug session as a reward. When I do that, I make sure the dog only gets the toy as a reward. In other words, he can't have that toy whenever he wants. That way it stays special. Another suggestion that might help with the treat issue is this - make sure your dog is really hungry. With Hans, if he isn't hungry, I will have to use higher value treats but if he is hungry he will work for regular kibble. So I often set aside part of his meals to use as treats. He gets less food in his bowl and works for the rest.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Both of mine love food, but sometimes a brief silly game, or just being let loose to do their own thing, is just as rewarding. For example, one of the essential life skills we practice most days is waiting at the side of the path for bicycles to pass - the OK! that releases them is nearly as good as a food treat. And Poppy loves to jump up around me, which is only allowed with permisson, as a special treat. Or perhaps you just have not found the right food treat yet!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Does your dog need to eat at all???? Doesn't he need food to run his body systems and survive? lol. Food is a primary reinforcer and very useful in training many things. If he's not hungry, it loses value. If it's not tasty, it loses value especially if he's not very hungry. The reason I like to use food is that it only has to be very small and soft and it gets eaten quickly and you can move onto the next thing without a break in between when you need to...for certain things, such as healing or a trick that has a behavior chain. For instance, one thing, then another thing all run together. You might have to break something up into smaller parts. Playing a game of tug may be too distracting and get the dog off track. That certainly works well for some things though, as do other rewards. 

Life rewards are great when the dog wants to go outside, you can ask for a trick he's learned first or wait for a behavior you want to see first before he gets to go out the door. If he'd like to go for a walk, you can wait for him to do some behavior you like first and then the excitement of grabbing the leash and going for a walk is reward enough. 

But treats are really useful and the only dogs I've ever worked with that didn't want a treat were either full from their last meal, too many snacks recently, the treat wasn't good enough or something else was higher on the hierarchy of rewards at that given time...maybe something in the environment was of more interest at that moment. If my dog with a pretty high prey drive sees a squirrel racing across the top of the fence and I say, "wanna cookie?" Guess what his first choice will be. lol.

But bottom line, find out what he really LOVES and I mean LOVES best and use that for a reward if you can fit it in.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I would suggest rally obedience as a sport that you can train for with essentially little to no investment of money. You can download the AKC or other venue (WCR, UKC) rules and practice the activities on your own (even without signs). If your pup is really as non-motivated for treats as you say, then I agree that tug or play with a special toy reserved for that training would work. If you get bitten by the dog sports bug then go on to something like agility.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

I think you can teach your boy to work for food! If he takes treats at other times but not during a training session, then he's either not hungry (meaning a random treat is enjoyable, but more than that is just a bother), or he's too stressed/excited during training! The former can be solved by meal timing or rationing his food, and the latter can be trained away. : ) This video explains teaching your dog to work for toys using food as a reward, but you can use the same method in reverse. 






I actually used this method to teach my dog to work for different valued food-rewards, as she began refusing the lower-value rewards whenever I had (or she even suspected I had!) something of higher-value. She was actually a majorly picky eater for several months in her first year. Seriously, rip-your-hair-out-stressful type of picky eater, drove me crazy! In a matter of weeks of just rewarding the consumption of lower-value food by giving a higher-value treat, that was completely solved. She's now a chowhound, excluding one or two things that are genuinely unpalatable to her (as opposed to just being "not as good" as some imagined alternative!).

Still, you can train a lot without treats as others have suggested here! Don't let the current lack of food motivation slow you down! But, build that food reinforcer. It's a *powerful* tool to have at your disposal! : )


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

I have experienced the low food drive dog, also. My girl loved movie theatre popcorn, so before class, when it was really important that she be focused I would stop at the theatre and grab her some popcorn. Worked great, and not much else would. Another dog got excited about new squeaky toys, so he only got to play with the new toy for training sessions. I knew I had a good toy when the other picky dog in the class wanted our squeaky toy. All of my picky dogs loved those little rabbit fur mice that are supposed to be cat toys. Another hint: chicken didnlt work, but chicken that was heated up would work. Also, I reward such tiny amounts that if the desired treat was salty, or fatty... I allowed it. All dogs will work for something, you just have to figure out what it is that motivates them.


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## SolaTee (Jan 3, 2015)

Thanks everyone for your replies, I will keep looking for that jackpot treat, i know what its not atleast


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

It may well not be good for dogs but bacon and ham worked for me with distracted dogs. Keep the treats small.
Eric.


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## mother4 (Jun 8, 2014)

My picky dogs like Merrick dehydrated lamb lungs you can break them into tiny bits


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