# What is the difference between AKC and Poodle Club of America



## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

Poodle Club of America is the parent club for AKC Poodles. Basically to be listed with the AKC, every breed has to have its own "club" dedicated to maintaining the breed standard and things like that. So AKC and PCA should be synonymous with each other when it comes to poodles. 

Did you maybe misread something? I would say 1500-2500 is a pretty common price range for AKC poodles from a good breeder. I'd suggest checking out this thread though as there's more to choosing a breeder than just looking at their club/registry memberships: http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/33522-buying-puppy-safely-basics.html


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

I would stick with PCA recommendations or Toy, Miniature and Standard Poodles, poodle breeders, poodle puppies. Have heard AKC lets some less than stellar poodles advertise with them.


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

Stick with PCA. Anyone can advertise on AKC as long as their dogs are registered. Backyard breeders, etc. PCA members are held to a higher standard. They are breeding to improve the breed and I would imagine that all or nearly all of them health test.


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## REALDOGMOM?? (Nov 28, 2017)

OK, so now I know the difference. Is it ok to ask for all genetic testing reports on the parents of the dog prior to putting the deposit down? When do the puppies get all their testing done. Do breeders automatically chip the dogs, dock tails and or something in the feet? In addition, how long do breeders normally guaranty a dog for?


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

REALDOGMOM?? said:


> OK, so now I know the difference. Is it ok to ask for all genetic testing reports on the parents of the dog prior to putting the deposit down?


 Yes and there is OFA testing/CHIC testing thst you should ask for as well


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## scooterscout99 (Dec 3, 2015)

There are some recommendations for questions to ask breeders from the Versatility In Poodles (VIP) organization. They also recommend health testing for each poodle size and suggest how to evaluate breeders and breeder web sites.

Versatility In Poodles - Find A Poodle


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

REALDOGMOM?? said:


> OK, so now I know the difference. Is it ok to ask for all genetic testing reports on the parents of the dog prior to putting the deposit down? When do the puppies get all their testing done. Do breeders automatically chip the dogs, dock tails and or something in the feet? In addition, how long do breeders normally guaranty a dog for?


Absolutely you should ask for all test results on the parents before putting a deposit down! Anyone who hesitates to give that to you upon request should definitely be avoided. Most breeders who health test have the results listed on the OFA website, and if you have the registered names of both parents you can look them up there. But if there is a test missing from there, the breeder may have had it done but not paid to post it. Or it is possible that they were clear by parentage (only a few specific dna tests are able to be cleared by parentage so research to know which ones are or aren't able to be.) 

The puppies can theoretically be tested at birth for any of the DNA tests like NE, but a good breeder would never breed an affected dog, or two carriers, so the puppies will be clear or carriers (but in a carrier, it is not expressed, so you really don't need to know, unless you are breeding.) Hips have to be done after two years. A lot of problems in poodles can't really be tested for, like addisons and some other autoimmune diseases. That is why getting from a breeder who knows their lines very well is a huge benefit, as they would have avoided and bred away from those things whenever possible.

Breeders do not automatically chip, dock or remove dewclaws. Akc show breeders will dock and almost always remove dews. Some breeders are moving away from these practices, but others still do them, so you can decide what you prefer and search for a breeder who follows your preference. Unless you have a strong preference either way, you will probably be happy no matter if the tail and dews are removed. If you plan to show, a docked tail will be much easier to finish. But besides that there really won't be any difference besides aesthetics. Dewclaws, if your dog has them, will have to be clipped regularly. I have heard that microchips can travel in young pups, especially larger breed puppies because they grow and change so much, so if your breeder doesn't do it, I wouldn't be too worried about it. Discuss it with them, they will probably have a reason why they do/do not do it to their puppies.

And your last question, in general most health guarantees from good breeders cover around 2 years. It varies widely though. If a breeder only has a very short guarantee, that it something to watch out for, as tests for hips and joints won't be accurate until around 2 years old.

Hope that helps a little. Every breeder is different but feel free to ask if you have any more questions!


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

Just a quick clarification on PCA. For better or worse (and I think there is some of both), PCA is THE MOST exclusive breed club of all the breeds. So while I often suggest people contact the PCA breeder referral person in their area, just because a breeder isn't a member of PCA doesn't mean they are a sketchy breeder (and you still need to do your homework with a member). 

Another GREAT source of referrals in your area is to contact your local poodle club. It is easier for a reputable breeder who is involved with the breed to belong to a local breed club. 

As for your question about genetic testing, such testing is typically done on the parents of the litter, not the puppies themselves. And the breeder should be totally transparent about sharing the registered names of parents and testing results. For standards especially, the required/recommended health testing involves more than just DNA tests. Standards and minis should have OFA hips done, and standards should also have thyroid, SA, and heart testing. The genetic testing is the easy/cheap part!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

REALDOGMOM?? said:


> OK, so now I know the difference. Is it ok to ask for all genetic testing reports on the parents of the dog prior to putting the deposit down? When do the puppies get all their testing done. Do breeders automatically chip the dogs, dock tails and or something in the feet? In addition, how long do breeders normally guaranty a dog for?


More than okay, it's part of being responsible as you search for a puppy! You are on the right track, listen to your gut.  Health guarantees are generally for 2-5 years and for the conditions that can be tested for. 

Microchip, tail docked and dewclaws removed are very basic things that are done, yes.

Puppies don't really get any testing done prior to going to their new home aside from a wellness vet visit.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Errmmmmm.... I'm a little confuzzled. PCA is Poodle Club of America... which is a member of the American Kennel Club, AKC.

Two different entities, no?


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Countryboy said:


> Errmmmmm.... I'm a little confuzzled. PCA is Poodle Club of America... which is a member of the American Kennel Club, AKC.
> 
> Two different entities, no?


Yep - two different entities. Here is a description of the differences:

AKC - an organization that maintains a registry for purebred dogs of the breeds it recognizes and that manages a wide variety of events for dogs. The governing body of AKC is made up of the member clubs. Some member clubs are the parent clubs for various breeds and some member clubs are all-breed or obedience dog clubs. Each member club can send a delegate to the quarterly AKC meetings. I was for several years the delegate from the Pensacola Dog Fanciers Association, an all-breed club that put on conformation shows and obedience trials (those were pretty much the only dog activities other than field trials at that time). The delegates vote on on issues that affect the sport of dogs. For example, the most important vote I ever cast for my club was the one that split the herding group from the working group.

Other associations exist that also put on events: ASFA (American Sighthound Field Association) does lure coursing trials. UKC (United Kennel Club) puts on conformation shows - it is to some degree the competition for AKC. I cannot think of any others right now, but there are quite a few.

PCA - the parent club for poodles. As a parent club, PCA maintains the breed standard - the written description of the poodle against which poodles are judged at conformation shows. PCA is very active in identifying and attempting to reduce the incidence of genetic diseases. It puts on national and regional specialty shows. It promotes breeding of healthy, high-quality poodles. It holds judges' seminars to help judges learn the fine points of judging poodle conformation. It recognizes breeders who have consistently bred quality poodles. Most importantly for members of this forum, PCA maintains a web site poodleclubofamerica.org that has lots of information about poodles.

Hope this is useful info!


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

Sorry, I thought OP was seeing some poodles that were listed as PCA and some that were AKC, and thought that meant they were with different registries. Reading again, I see they were talking about the breeder referrals, which would be different between AKC and PCA since they each have separate advertising pages and things like that.


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## REALDOGMOM?? (Nov 28, 2017)

I am a poodle lover. I just want a happy and well tempered dog. I want to get a dog to share my love with. My own in the miniature size and dark colored. I am looking for a house pet. No special awards, etc. I want a poodle because it doesn't shed and because my mother is severely allergic to dogs. I don't want to shut her out of my home. This search is exhausting.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

REALDOGMOM?? said:


> I am a poodle lover. I just want a happy and well tempered dog. I want to get a dog to share my love with. My own in the miniature size and dark colored. I am looking for a house pet. No special awards, etc. I want a poodle because it doesn't shed and because my mother is severely allergic to dogs. I don't want to shut her out of my home. This search is exhausting.


Made more exhausting probably by the flood of information from this forum. You'll get advice from some of us who only breed show dogs but that's way over your head. Perfect advice if you're one of the Fancies but not what you want and need for a pet. 

I think I found this forum after I got Tonka... from a reputable local breeder. He was a return-to-breeder dog, unfortunately unwanted by the previous owner. Registered and papered, perfectly legitimate, with one quirk that I could handle but the previous owners couldn't. Anyway, I got myself a perfect dog without knowing much about Poodles.

You will too.


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## mvhplank (Dec 5, 2012)

*Other registries*

Keep in mind that AKC and PCA are not the only games in town. (Sorry to add to the deluge of information.)

Since you're not showing, you may not care what color(s) your perfect dog has. Multi-color poodles cannot be shown in AKC so breeders primarily associated with that registry will breed solid colors as much as they're able. Multi-color poodles can be registered with AKC by pedigree and they can show in AKC performance events--they would just not be allowed to show in conformation (the "beauty contest" event).

UKC (United Kennel Club), older than AKC and with an international membership, has a division for multi-colored poodles and its own breed club for poodles, United Poodle Association. Many of the poodles are also registered with AKC. My poodle is registered in both AKC and UKC. UKC allows poodles in a "sporting clip" to be shown in conformation, which is where he earned the breed champion "CH" in front of his name.

The same health tests apply, it's just that AKC breeders probably won't talk to you about parti-colors, mismarks, brindles, or phantoms among the color options. In fact, a mismarked puppy (with an odd white spot here or there) in an AKC litter might not come with as high a sticker price as a show prospect.

There are also many rescues dedicated particularly to poodles that you might want to explore if you'd like to get a dog that might already have good house manners.

If you've never had a poodle before, please consider taking classes with him, whether it's obedience, rally, good manners, scent games, or tricks. A busy poodle is a happy poodle--a bored poodle will make his own entertainment, and you might not like what he chooses.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

You can check out the Poodle Breeder Directory for reviews/recommendations from people on this forum, too. Poodle Breeder Directory - Poodle Forum - Standard Poodle, Toy Poodle, Miniature Poodle Forum ALL Poodle owners too!

If you click "Search" (near the top of the page) you could search for your location and see what comes up that's local.

You're right that there are LOTS of opinions about there about what makes an ideal breeder, but the general consensus is you should make sure they're doing these things at a minimum:


Genetic health testing on the parent dogs (and lets you see or tells you where to look up results)
Screens homes the puppies go to and demonstrates that they care about supporting new puppy parents (beware anyone who'll just take your money and run)
Lets you meet the parent dogs and see where they're kept
Seems like a genuinely good pet parent who socializes the puppies and takes good care of them and their parents

I also like to make sure they're selling pet puppies on a spay/neuter contract to make sure they don't end up in unscrupulous breeding operations. And I like some kind of showing or titling to prove that their dogs are stellar examples of the breed. I care about those things because there are so many dogs in shelters in the US, and I want to make sure they're not contributing to that by breeding willy-nilly and sending the dogs out to unsuitable homes.


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