# 8 month old suddenly biting again



## illiyh (Feb 17, 2016)

My 8 month old standard poodle Bowie was really bad with the play biting until he was 7 months old. He had almost no bite inhibition, left bruises every time and broke skin quite a bit too. Then seemingly overnight something clicked, he stopped biting and had a very soft mouth during play for 5-6 weeks. Now for the last 2 weeks he's back even worse than before because he's much bigger and stronger. He will just randomly start jumping and latch on to an arm or something, tail wagging. If you pay him any attention while he does it (eye contact or even just facing his direction) he'll run a couple of metres away, run back and grab you again, repeat. It's a big game to him. I always ignore and walk out of the room to give him a 20-60 second time out. Once we get up to 60 seconds if hasn't calmed down, which he usually hasn't, that's it and he doesn't get me in the room again until after he's had a nap.

His trainer has no idea what to do, it seems like she's given up. He can't be distracted or tired out when he's having one of his crazy biting fits. First the trainer tried all the standard things like yelping and saying no in a stern voice. No reaction. Then she tried a head halter, personal alarms, growling at him, holding him between her legs in a sit and doing calming strokes down his legs and chest until he calms down, putting him in the crate with something to chew until he calms down. None of that worked. The halter, alarm and growling didn't phase him at all and he goes straight back to biting after he's been sitting or confined for 5-10 mins. She thinks it might be a phase and said just keep up with the time-outs like we did last time and hopefully he'll stop. 

No one will go near him except me so he's not getting to socialise with other people or dogs at all any more and he's driving me mental. I'm just wondering if anyone else has experienced this and if you think keeping up with time-outs again will help, or maybe there's something we haven't tried yet. TIA!

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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Could he be frustrated, bored, hormones starting to kick in? 

Maybe teach him a new game to help blow off some extra energy - fetch, or nosework, or something he enjoys that works both body and mind. Maybe that will help tone down the over-the-top behavior. Soothing pets and and time outs can only do so much if he is brimming over with youthful energy. These are the types of things I do for my guys when they seem to be going nuts. 

Tracking and nosework games work the brain which seems to help with focus and teaches them to calm themselves. Fetch and flirt poles, swimming, etc help tire the body of a bred to be active dog like a poodle. Do a little of both (a mental and a physical work out) and see if that helps tame the beast a little. 

Best wishes.


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## illiyh (Feb 17, 2016)

BorderKelpie said:


> Could he be frustrated, bored, hormones starting to kick in?
> 
> Maybe teach him a new game to help blow off some extra energy - fetch, or nosework, or something he enjoys that works both body and mind. Maybe that will help tone down the over-the-top behavior. Soothing pets and and time outs can only do so much if he is brimming over with youthful energy. These are the types of things I do for my guys when they seem to be going nuts.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestions! Inside the house very well could be boredom or frustration, but he'll start doing it during a walk or game of fetch as well. He was quite bad during our last two sessions with his trainer too, and he's certainly not bored then. I'm pretty sure he just thinks it's the best game ever lol and he seemingly would rather jump and bite than do anything else.

I signed a contract to neuter by 6 months old so I don't think it's hormones. Although he did start humping 2-3 weeks after being neutered. Sometimes he will do that while he's biting me. 

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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Humping is not only a sexual behavior, nor dominance. Most often, it's a sign of excitement or arousal (not sexual). Quite often, it's related to stress. Between the biting and the humping, I'm thinking you may want to see what could be causing him stress. Believe it or not, some dogs get stressed if they don't have down time, too. It's a tough balance trying to figure out the right amount of mental and physical exercise and rest time. It becomes even more difficult since it's different for every dog. 
Article about humping:
https://positively.com/contributors/why-does-my-dog-hump-everything/


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## illiyh (Feb 17, 2016)

BorderKelpie said:


> Humping is not only a sexual behavior, nor dominance. Most often, it's a sign of excitement or arousal (not sexual). Quite often, it's related to stress. Between the biting and the humping, I'm thinking you may want to see what could be causing him stress. Believe it or not, some dogs get stressed if they don't have down time, too. It's a tough balance trying to figure out the right amount of mental and physical exercise and rest time. It becomes even more difficult since it's different for every dog.
> Article about humping:
> https://positively.com/contributors/why-does-my-dog-hump-everything/


Awesome article, thanks! I love Victoria Stillwell. She's the real dog whisper imo. That makes a lot of sense. He gets overexcited SO easily. He's getting around 1.5-2 hours of physical exercise a day in the form of walks, fetch, chase, tug and flirt pole, 20 mins or so of training, 20 mins of frozen kong time, about an hour of chewing various toys and antlers, lots of cuddle time and 18-20 hours of sleep. I might start doing some more brain work like you said and see if that makes a difference. He's useless at nosework, I'll throw a treat in the grass right in front of his face and he can't find it haha but he tries really hard so we'll give that a go. I'm sure he'll get better if we do it more. Thanks again!

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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

illiyh said:


> He's useless at nosework, I'll throw a treat in the grass right in front of his face and he can't find it haha but he tries really hard so we'll give that a go. I'm sure he'll get better if we do it more. Thanks again!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


Maybe try making it really simple to start, like this:


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## illiyh (Feb 17, 2016)

BorderKelpie said:


> Maybe try making it really simple to start, like this:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaNZhDYzeRM


Thanks we will definitely do that!

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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Welcome to adolescence. Just as teenage humans test boundaries, teenage dogs often will do so as well. Javelin is 16 months old and has moments where he does similar behaviors. It is really annoying and can make people not want to interact with the dog which only tends to make them more frustrated and more likely to do this over the top attention seeking behavior.

Here is what I do with Javelin when he is acting nutty. I tell him to lie down and look at me. Even just 15-30 seconds is enough to make him rethink his behavior and he now understands that he is to collect his head while he is on the down. If he doesn't do the down I take him by the collar and move him into the down. If he is at a distance and likely to run into me rather than listening I use a small bean bag or a throw chain thrown near him, not at him to break him out of the wild behavior and tell him to down at the same time. It has made him much more of a gentleman.

And as noted by borderkelpie, humping is an indicator of over the top excitement, not dominance and generally not sexual arousal either unless the dog is an intact male that has some experience of being around in season bitches. Lily used to hump Peeves when they were young and it was all about excitement and nothing else.

I also agree that this pup needs tons more brain work. You won't have to do so much physical activity if you make the dog think. I would take him to obedience classes rather than having a trainer come to your home if that is what you have been doing. Javelin always sleeps very well when we come home from our obedience training, better even than when he has mostly been physically exercised.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

How much impulse control practice is he getting? We really focused on this with Hans and it was a big help. The "It's Yer Choice" game is an easy start. You should be able to find a video on YouTube. We also turned tug into an impulse control exercise by letting him tug and get fired up, stopping the tug to practice a behavior he knows (sit stay, down stay, etc) then rewarding by resuming the tug. If he breaks the stay, he doesn't get to resume the game. Any teeth on the human also ends the game. You can do something similar with chase, if he likes to play that. Chase - stay - human runs around - dog gets cue to resume chase as a reward for a good stay.

Same thing with fetch - make him work for it, don't just throw the ball over and over again. Make him stay. If he breaks, he doesn't get the retreive. Throw the ball, make him do something like a short heeling pattern, then send him to fetch. The goal is that he learns that he can only unlock fun activities (fetch, chase, tug, flirt pole) by doing what you want him to do. It also gives the dog the opportunity to practice responding to cues/commands even in a very excited state. I could tell when Hans fully got the concept because behaviors that my previous dogs did grudgingly got enthusiasm from Hans. "Stay? SURE! Something really fun will happen if I do!" Now, a bigger distraction/temptation gets a better stay (or whatever behavior) because he reeeally wants the reward.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Along the lines of what Firestorm suggested I think you might also want to look up "Nothing in Life is Free (NILIF)." It is really about teaching impulse control. There are any number of ways to do that and you may want to use combinations of them. Redirection to a static behavior, It's Yer Choice and NILIF all can be useful for working on extinguishing the craziness without turning a youngster into a dull and dreary sad and sullen teenager.


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## illiyh (Feb 17, 2016)

Thanks guys! I've tried redirection but he doesn't listen and isn't interested in food or toys when he's biting like that. All I can do is walk away and ignore him until he's calmed down. Any attention at all gets him more worked up.

We were doing an obedience class rather than having a trainer come here but we've just graduated the last level this week and will now just be going to the fun training days and group walks once a month. I don't have the opportunity to do any more regular obedience or anything because the kennel club classes aren't til 8pm and Bowie is up at 5am every day and well and truly tired and cranky by 8 lol he'd be useless, even after his 9+ hours of daytime naps. Night time is the worst for his crazy behaviour. 

I'm emailing the trainer today to see if she can come in for a private lesson and help us out too.

We're doing Recallers  it's amazing! Bowie does really really well with IYC in regards to food and toys but I'm not sure how to introduce it into every day life. Is NILF something like that? I have heard of it and will implement that today. It's stuff like having to sit before opening doors etc yeah? Bowie does that but I'm not super strict about it so I will get strict and read up about NILF more.

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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

It is too bad that you don't seem to have the chance to do more classes. That would be a great opportunity to help your boy through some of the teenage nonsense. You are essentially correct about the principle of NILIF and there are many ways to use it. I am also thinking that you might want to teach some attention and focus games. I have a bunch of them described in this thread. http://www.poodleforum.com/24-perfo...-hunting/205393-javelins-road-ring-ready.html

Don't think about them as performance oriented games. I teach five cookies, with me and let's go in my beginner classes where often the dogs are companion dogs more than performance oriented dogs.


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## NatalieAnne (Jul 23, 2016)

For my puppy crate naps & an early bedtime have cut way down on out of control play that leads to uninhibited bite play. I liken it to fussy overtired babies whose egos have disintegrated. Also if we are playing fetch & I get a bite that breaks the skin, play immediately stops & I leave the room where a puppy gate divides us. So far I've had very good luck with this, but we're only at 5 mos. young.


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## illiyh (Feb 17, 2016)

Thanks, I'll do that!

Yeah they were the first things we tried to. Bowie has a very strict nap schedule, about 3 hours at a time 3 times a day, and he sleeps for 10-11 hours straight at night. He generally is okay while we're playing, his biting is more random than your typical play biting. Sometimes I'll just be sitting there watching TV or standing talking to someone and he'll come and jump on me or the person I'm talking to and start biting. I always walk away as soon as he starts. It seems to be attention seeking behaviour a lot of the time but not always.

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## wartorn (Nov 15, 2020)

I found this site from 4 years ago. Wondering how your std poodle is doing now. Am hoping he is a delight. Mine is 8 months old end of this month, and I am exasperated. My arms are torn up badly and I am exhausted. He wants to play but can't seem to think of any other way that with his mouth. Just found a game bowl and stuffed it with cookies. Keeping him busy for now. How are things going? Any hints for me. He is my 6th std. poodle, but he is also the most challenging!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

wartorn, people come and go from different platforms. I doubt you will hear from the OP since I don't think they have been active here in ages. The site keeps suggesting reading from very old threads and while they are worth reading to learn from most of the time you don't get replies from the original posters.


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## riseandshine (Dec 24, 2020)

wartorn said:


> I found this site from 4 years ago. Wondering how your std poodle is doing now. Am hoping he is a delight. Mine is 8 months old end of this month, and I am exasperated. My arms are torn up badly and I am exhausted. He wants to play but can't seem to think of any other way that with his mouth. Just found a game bowl and stuffed it with cookies. Keeping him busy for now. How are things going? Any hints for me. He is my 6th std. poodle, but he is also the most challenging!


I am wondering the same! It sounds just like what I'm going through with my 10 month old. Having a lot of trouble finding a trainer to help find a solution.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

riseandshine said:


> I am wondering the same! It sounds just like what I'm going through with my 10 month old. Having a lot of trouble finding a trainer to help find a solution.


Oh no. I recall you posting about this months ago. You’re deep into a very challenging period now, but there’s light at the end of the tunnel. Just be careful not to do anything that could turn playful nips, frustrated mouthing, or ouch-my-mouth-hurts-because-my-teeth-are-still-settling chewing into fearful biting. Have you checked out this thread?









Pandemic Puppy Primer


The pandemic has created some unique challenges for families adding a new puppy or adult dog to their home. On the one hand, we finally have the time to devote to a four legged family member; on the other hand, surging demand has led to adoption and sales scams, and social distancing...




www.poodleforum.com





There’s info on finding a trainer in there. Both the KPA and CCPDT sites have directories where you can search by location. If geography is an issue, some trainers and behaviourists have been offering remote sessions due to covid, so don’t get discouraged. Just keep reaching out.


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## wartorn (Nov 15, 2020)

riseandshine said:


> I am wondering the same! It sounds just like what I'm going through with my 10 month old. Having a lot of trouble finding a trainer to help find a solution.


My pup is now 14 months old and he still uses his mouth too often. I am tired of being scratched and bitten and covered with bandaids. The trainer is at a loss. Everyone has clever ideas, some of which work for a while. But when he wants to play, it's mouth time. Even if we play Tug-of-War, he brings his mouth closer and closer to my fingers until he can manage a bite. Getting very wearisome. Other than that, he can be a sweet little cuddly pup. He is rambunctious and forgets himself easily. I have discovered, however, that if I carry a broom, he will leave me alone. Could be that one of my many brooms fell on the porch in the wind and startled him. I cannot go out into the yard to work or garden without a broom. Touched him once gently with a broom when he ran away with something I needed and he dropped it. They are protecting me for the nonce. If I dared go out in the yard without a broom, he would hurl his body at me, growl, and seek to bite me. So long as I carry something when I go out into the garden to work, he will not attack me, but will run fierce circles like the wind around me. And he never seems to get exhausted. Neutering coming up shortly. Perhaps this will calm him down, but I am not hopeful. He has play bitten two neighbors already. One has learned to turn from him. Nonetheless, this is untenable. Bad behavior for a dog who is a model citizen in training class.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

A ten month old is probably still experiencing some level of teething. Their mouth will be very uncomfortable. This doesn't excuse poor behavior, but it explains some of why it happens.

"Even if we play Tug-of-War, he brings his mouth closer and closer to my fingers until he can manage a bite." It is your job to see this coming and stop the game and redirect or take a time out before he can connect with teeth.

"I have discovered, however, that if I carry a broom, he will leave me alone. Could be that one of my many brooms fell on the porch in the wind and startled him. I cannot go out into the yard to work or garden without a broom. Touched him once gently with a broom when he ran away with something I needed and he dropped it." Seriously???? Just holy heck... You will teach this pup to be afraid of you if you continue to do stuff like this. I would growl and hurl myself at you if I knew you were going to attack me with that broom. Leave the pup in his crate or expen while you work in the yard. This will serve two good purposes: A. teach your pup to be able to be settled while alone and reduce overly stimulating moments and B. to give you a chance to enjoy working in your yard without worrying about the pup. When you finish the gardening chores take your pup out and have some nice training time, like working on recall or fetch or paying attention to you.

Biting your neighbors is very very serious. Your neighbors should not have to learn how to not be provocative to your pup. You need to learn how to make a strong and positive relationship with this dog before things escalate further (which they will if the little one continues to be assaulted with a broom). At this point you are way past a run of the mill trainer, even I (and I am a CPDT-KA trainer) would probably decline to work with you. You need a really excellent behaviorist. Look for someone who is CBCC-KA at ccpdt.org. And do not bet on neutering to change this pup's behavior he has already learned really undesirable behaviors by repeated rehearsals of them. The only hormone involved in all of this is cortisol and maybe adrenaline, not testosterone.


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## wartorn (Nov 15, 2020)

lily cd re said:


> A ten month old is probably still experiencing some level of teething. Their mouth will be very uncomfortable. This doesn't excuse poor behavior, but it explains some of why it happens.
> 
> "Even if we play Tug-of-War, he brings his mouth closer and closer to my fingers until he can manage a bite." It is your job to see this coming and stop the game and redirect or take a time out before he can connect with teeth.
> 
> ...


Boy, what you don't know is astounding. My neighbors do NOT provoke my dog. And I only carry the broom or any tool quietly at my side. I have NEVER assaulted him. What do you take me for? I am glad he doesn't attack me when I hold a broom. If I don't one nearby, I keep him on the porch. My pup is very sweet and cuddly, but he plays far too vigorously. I just lost my husband last week and now you assault me. You have no idea whatsoever is going on in this household or with this dog. I don't like being lectured to online. That's it for me. I am out of here. My trainer and I will continue to work with him. So long, Poodle Forum.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Think as you like, but I have lots of training experience and am a CGC evaluator and am certified by an outstanding organization. I took you for a person who really needed help with their dog. I based my reply on what I knew. I am sorry your husband passed. I am sure this is a devastating time for you, but attacking me for my reply without me knowing your backstory regarding your household isn't any more reasonable than anything you accuse me of. I hope you find all of the help and support you need personally and with your dog.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

wartorn said:


> I just lost my husband last week and now you assault me.


My condolences on your loss.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

It sounds like you are having a very rough spring. The loss of your husband must be very difficult, and puppy blues can't be making it easier.


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## riseandshine (Dec 24, 2020)

wartorn said:


> My pup is now 14 months old and he still uses his mouth too often. I am tired of being scratched and bitten and covered with bandaids. The trainer is at a loss. Everyone has clever ideas, some of which work for a while. But when he wants to play, it's mouth time. Even if we play Tug-of-War, he brings his mouth closer and closer to my fingers until he can manage a bite. Getting very wearisome. Other than that, he can be a sweet little cuddly pup. He is rambunctious and forgets himself easily. I have discovered, however, that if I carry a broom, he will leave me alone. Could be that one of my many brooms fell on the porch in the wind and startled him. I cannot go out into the yard to work or garden without a broom. Touched him once gently with a broom when he ran away with something I needed and he dropped it. They are protecting me for the nonce. If I dared go out in the yard without a broom, he would hurl his body at me, growl, and seek to bite me. So long as I carry something when I go out into the garden to work, he will not attack me, but will run fierce circles like the wind around me. And he never seems to get exhausted. Neutering coming up shortly. Perhaps this will calm him down, but I am not hopeful. He has play bitten two neighbors already. One has learned to turn from him. Nonetheless, this is untenable. Bad behavior for a dog who is a model citizen in training class.


Mine is very similar in behavior. He does not growl or bite to be aggressive, but gets overly aroused very easily. Lunges forcefully, mouth open, and grabs my arm over and over again, HARD. Leaves marks, scratches, and I can feel the nerves in my arm tingle. To him, it is playing. I have tried consistently with positive reinforcement training to correct this behavior but it has not subsided at all in the 6+ months of addressing it. He is a perfect angel in classes and when he is in "the zone". Even earned his AKC CGC. 

I cannot go out in the yard without expecting to be "attacked". I do not allow anyone else to handle him, because one moment he is snuggling, and the next, JUMP-BITE. The obedience classes I attend, the instructors don't believe me when I tell them, "It's really as bad as I'm saying it is, you just don't see it." 

So, I hired a new trainer who will come to my home starting this Friday for one hour a week. I want to invest in my dog and I love him, but it has taken a toll on me and brought me to tears many times (a mix of the physical pain and emotional "What else can I do?!") I KNOW my dog has it in him to be an A+++ dog, but I'm having a seriously hard time correcting this behavior that came with him. Honestly, I've been looking at e-collars - to be used in the most humane way possible. (Please no one reading this freak out about that unless you would like to provide me free and guaranteed training. I'm at a loss.) Because when I'm in the car, he will attack. Even though he is strapped in the back, he can stretch and reach my arm no matter which seat he is in. And if I'm driving, I need a quick way to say NO for the safety of everyone.

I know he's only 10 months, but with the amount of consistent training I've put in for this specific behavior, something should be improving by now. I've tried to educate myself the best I can, consulted trainers, been to obedience classes, watched countless youtube videos, read a zillion articles...I just don't know!! I truly feel your pain. Literally.


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## riseandshine (Dec 24, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Oh no. I recall you posting about this months ago. You’re deep into a very challenging period now, but there’s light at the end of the tunnel. Just be careful not to do anything that could turn playful nips, frustrated mouthing, or ouch-my-mouth-hurts-because-my-teeth-are-still-settling chewing into fearful biting. Have you checked out this thread?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you so much. Yes, that was me, posting about the SAME issue, ha. I put everything into practice but still having a heck of a time.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

riseandshine said:


> Thank you so much. Yes, that was me, posting about the SAME issue, ha. I put everything into practice but still having a heck of a time.


At 10 months he still has a long way to go. Peggy’s “attack” mode faded dramatically around a year, but we could still get her excited enough to grab our sleeves or playfully bite our arms now if we really wanted to (or if we aren’t careful and inject too much excited energy into the moment). She’ll be two years old next week and is really a fabulous dog. But she was a tough, tough puppy.

You are likely to start seeing returns on your investment if you continue what you’re doing (and also pause any of your own behaviours you know tend to trigger him). Introducing something like an e-collar now could turn your over exuberant—maybe a little frustrated?—boy into a fear biter.

Were you able to find a certified trainer? What are their credentials? I ask this not to be snobby, but because you’re at a delicate moment in your boy’s development and you’re also at your wits’ end. That could be a dangerous combo with the wrong sort of advice.


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## riseandshine (Dec 24, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> At 10 months he still has a long way to go. Peggy’s “attack” mode faded dramatically around a year, but we could still get her excited enough to grab our sleeves or playfully bite our arms now if we really wanted to (or if we aren’t careful and inject too much excited energy into the moment). She’ll be two years old next week and is really a fabulous dog. But she was a tough, tough puppy.
> 
> You are likely to start seeing returns on your investment if you continue what you’re doing (and also pause any of your own behaviours you know tend to trigger him). Introducing something like an e-collar now could turn your over exuberant—maybe a little frustrated?—boy into a fear biter.
> 
> Were you able to find a certified trainer? What are their credentials? I ask this not to be snobby, but because you’re at a delicate moment in your boy’s development and you’re also at your wits’ end. That could be a dangerous combo with the wrong sort of advice.


Yes, I don't expect a perfectly behaved puppy -- because he is still a puppy, but I do expect to see at least some progress by now. Other training, he's progressed amazingly at. 

Yes, I certainly do not want that to happen. I am going back and forth on it right now. I've read a lot of excellent testimonials from using it sparingly for certain behaviors on a lower setting. 

The trainer was recommended to me by another local poodle owner. She trains service dogs primarily. I was searching for positive reinforcement/fear-free training. She is not on that list you linked me to, I just looked. I don't know if that's a dealbreaker. You tell me. She does classes around here and is a CGC evaluator. I know there are bad trainers who have been training for 20+ years. I haven't met her in person yet. We will see how the first session goes. The primary training I'm finding around here are those board and train places that only use ecollars and cost $3000. I would never! Thanks to that list you sent I do see a few names I will contact if this one doesn't work out.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

riseandshine said:


> Yes, I don't expect a perfectly behaved puppy -- because he is still a puppy, but I do expect to see at least some progress by now. Other training, he's progressed amazingly at.
> 
> Yes, I certainly do not want that to happen. I am going back and forth on it right now. I've read a lot of excellent testimonials from using it sparingly for certain behaviors on a lower setting.
> 
> The trainer was recommended to me by another local poodle owner. She trains service dogs primarily. I was searching for positive reinforcement/fear-free training. She is not on that list you linked me to, I just looked. I don't know if that's a dealbreaker. You tell me. She does classes around here and is a CGC evaluator. I know there are bad trainers who have been training for 20+ years. I haven't met her in person yet. We will see how the first session goes. The primary training I'm finding around here are those board and train places that only use ecollars and cost $3000. I would never! Thanks to that list you sent I do see a few names I will contact if this one doesn't work out.


Rather than focusing on the excellent testimonials, read about the failures of e-collars and decide if that’s a risk you’re willing to take. Our trainer could spend _all day, every day _with clients who’ve turned unruly dogs into fearful and/or aggressive dogs through their training methods. The stories are gutting. 

Perhaps there’s a time and a place for e-collars, but I’d say only in extremely skilled hands. And I don’t think there’s anything about your particular situation that warrants one.

As far as whether or not the trainer you’ve chosen is a good one, I can’t say. But, with all I’ve learned in the past two years with Peggy, I don’t think I’d enlist the help of someone who hasn’t put in the time and effort to get certified by a reputable organization. There are some super old-school methods out there that science tells us now can do more harm than good. I want the person who’s teaching me to train my dog to be on top of current research and share that knowledge with me.

Your gut will probably tell you if she’s a good fit for you and your pup. Consider starting a new thread to share your progress with us! I guarantee others could benefit from it. You’re not alone.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

@riseandshine Let me rewrite what I think I understand of your situation in the context of what to do next: trainer and/or e-collar. You have a problem: your adolescent puppy is jumping and biting, making him an unpleasant and even dangerous companion. You are at a loss for how to make him stop jumping and biting; he has not demonstrated the behavior when you attend training school . You have two thoughts on solving this issue: 1) Consult with a trainer who makes house calls 2) Try an e-collar.

Training any behavior is pretty much the same 1) The dog needs to have a very clear understanding of what he is supposed to be doing. 2) The dog needs to have a clear understanding of what the consequences are of not doing it. 3) The dog needs a firm belief that reward and discouragement will follow right and wrong actions.

Up until now, how have you addressed point # 1? What do you want the dog do instead of jumping on you? Commonly people ask the dog to sit or lie down.
OK, so having established the dog should be sitting (or whatever) what about point # 2? What are the consequences of jumping instead of sitting? Commonly, trainers tell you to take the fun away. You walk through the door, the dog jumps, you go back through the door and shut it in the dog's face. No fun.
Now, to point # 3, what happens if sometimes the dog gets away with jumping, and sometimes the dog doesn't? Well, the dog is going to keep jumping because of the psychological principal of intermittent reinforcement. So, you need to nail your timing and your anticipation skills. It's best if you can simply avoid the need for punishment by distracting the dog with another activity (e.g. chasing a flirt pole) that's just as much fun as jumping and biting. If you can't do that, you want to hit the dog with consequences immediately upon jumping or biting. (E.g. leave the room). You also want to avoid putting the dog in a situation where you can't reinforce consequences immediately. (E.g. don't let yourself get into a situation where he's gnawing on you while you are driving.) 

Now, all of these steps can be accomplished without using an e-collar. You can reward the dog for sitting without using an e-collar. You can walk out of a room and shut the door without using an e-collar. You can distract your dog with a flirt pole without using an e-collar. The fact that what you are doing hasn't worked so far means that something is not quite right with your method. Adding a e-collar to the mix won't fix the communication failure; it will just add a bit of fear and pain to the current confusion. I think there is a good chance it will teach your dog not to approach you, which is definitely not a behavior you want to teach. Plus you can buy a lot of dog treats and dog toys for what an e-collar costs. Therefore, I think your idea of having a trainer come to your house to work with you is very good. I'm glad you are exploring that option.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

For jumping - I have had a lot of fast success lately with the following method. I go to a dog park, and dogs there are often very exhuberant, poorly trained, and happy to see me, and I cannot risk a fall. They are the sort of dogs who run across the field at full speed when I get in, while their owner screams 'Down! Down!' - I am convinced the dogs just believe yelling down is a weird part of the human greeting ritual, not a command at all. Now they run to me full speed and plop into a sit at my feet. Huge improvement. 

Watch how she uses her arm in a straight position away from her to both block the dog and get them into a sit away from her. 






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I personally taught Annie off as a cue with meaning. I encouraged my dog to jump on command, then off on command using luring. Then I faded out rewards for the jump up and began giving multiple quick rewards for the off, then started slowing down the rate of reward for off. That way, I could start saying 'off' BEFORE my dog jumped, and then reward her for remaining off, and I knew that she understood the word 'off' and found off more valuable (more highly reinforced) than jumping up. 

I would not want to use an ecollar for fixing greeting behaviour, especially with strangers. Sounds like an easy way to get a dog that is afraid of or nervous with strangers.


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## I LOVE Dogs (May 20, 2021)

illiyh said:


> Thanks for the suggestions! Inside the house very well could be boredom or frustration, but he'll start doing it during a walk or game of fetch as well. He was quite bad during our last two sessions with his trainer too, and he's certainly not bored then. I'm pretty sure he just thinks it's the best game ever lol and he seemingly would rather jump and bite than do anything else.
> 
> I signed a contract to neuter by 6 months old so I don't think it's hormones. Although he did start humping 2-3 weeks after being neutered. Sometimes he will do that while he's biting me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


Could it be that he was taken away from its mam too early?


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## I LOVE Dogs (May 20, 2021)

I LOVE Dogs said:


> Could it be that he was taken away from its mam too early?


*mom


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I LOVE Dogs said:


> Could it be that he was taken away from its mam too early?


Not much can be done about that fact now if so. It's not like he can go back to visit his mum for a "young man, I can't believe the things I've been hearing," scolding from her.


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## riseandshine (Dec 24, 2020)

cowpony said:


> @riseandshine Let me rewrite what I think I understand of your situation in the context of what to do next: trainer and/or e-collar. You have a problem: your adolescent puppy is jumping and biting, making him an unpleasant and even dangerous companion. You are at a loss for how to make him stop jumping and biting; he has not demonstrated the behavior when you attend training school . You have two thoughts on solving this issue: 1) Consult with a trainer who makes house calls 2) Try an e-collar.
> 
> Training any behavior is pretty much the same 1) The dog needs to have a very clear understanding of what he is supposed to be doing. 2) The dog needs to have a clear understanding of what the consequences are of not doing it. 3) The dog needs a firm belief that reward and discouragement will follow right and wrong actions.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your very thought out reply and willingness to listen and help me!

-He used to not demonstrate this behavior in training school, but last few weeks does here and there and it is becoming more frequent unfortunately. He used to be absolutely perfect off-leash, but now I have to leash him so he doesn't go for the instructor or myself when practicing recalls and others.
-For #1, I ask to "off" then "sit". If it doesn't work (#2), I leave. He is usually following me and I go inside/into another room and shut the door. By then, he's gotten a few bites in.
-I do my best to not allow the behavior, because honestly, I physically cannot take it. The biting hurts and I have bruises. The second it starts my reflexes go to stopping the behavior with 1&2. I do my best to anticipate and avoid triggers. If driving and he starts up, I pull my seat all the way up but he can sometimes get a nip in. I always say "quiet" with treats in hand, he will quiet, then when I go to provide a treat to the back seat it's often instant chomp on my forearm. "Gotcha!"

I do not prefer to use the ecollar. And I definitely do not want to interfere with his mostly sweet personality. I'm really hoping and praying this behavior can be trained out effectively and efficiently with positive reinforcement. I know he is in adolescence, but he's been doing this since a small puppy.


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