# Left over bones



## Dee84cali (Dec 16, 2015)

Growing up I've always seen uncles,cousins ect feed there dogs left over bones but I've read not to do it.. To be honest there never been a problem with there dogs from eating those bones. Do u guys feed them those bones? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

You should never feed bones from cooked meat. They can splinter and cause harm.

Quote From healthypets :

**********

Dangers of Cooked Bones

The cooking process makes bones more brittle, increasing the likelihood they might splinter and cause internal injury to your dog.

Cooking can also remove the nutrition contained in bones.

*************

We did it in the old days because we didn't know better. Now that we do, why take the chance or hurting your dog ?


----------



## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Yep, what Dechi said! I would never give my dogs a cooked bone. Raw only.


----------



## Dee84cali (Dec 16, 2015)

Thanks... Is raw edible?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Dee84cali said:


> Thanks... Is raw edible?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As the others said, cooked bones are dangerous.

Raw is edible. Pictures in the link.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pic...p7DMAhUK3WMKHSwzBDsQ_AUIBygB&biw=1242&bih=545

Here's a picture of a meal for my dogs. It's been a while but I think there was beef chunks, maybe it was lamb, liver or another organ meat. (that's the shiny blob) And a few pieces of tripe and about a tsp of pulverized veggies. And that little longish pinkish colored thing is a piece of a raw chicken bone with a little chicken meat covering it. lol. That's all my dogs eat..._raw_ meat and_ raw _bones and a tad bit of veggies, a few raw eggs and fish a once or twice a week._ Never ever_ cooked bones.


----------



## Dee84cali (Dec 16, 2015)

Raw meat?! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

yep...here's a video to watch if you like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QnG1BV3B-E


cute baby chihuahua

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmhsSWIR-Sw


----------



## Dee84cali (Dec 16, 2015)

Wow! Thanks.. Gonna reconsider sire diet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Dee...If you browse the food sub forum, even going back a few pages, there are loads of threads about raw feeding, lots of discussion. I only started this back in December, so it's been about 5 months or so. I couldn't be happier with my dogs' health. Especially noticeable is in my old 14 year old Chihuahua. So many positive changes happened within about 2 weeks of starting a natural diet for him and the two Poodles. There are also sticky threads on top that have lots of good sites to go to. It IS important, if you're going to feed raw to learn a few of the basics. One of those basics is to start with just one protein source for a week or so to make sure the dog isn't sensitive to it. Then move onto another. If you feed all kinds of things all at once and the dog has an allergy or sensitivity to something you won't know what the culprit is. I like this site a lot: The Many Myths of Raw Feeding

I also joined a prey model raw food forum where I got additional information. But you can look into various types of diets. I don't do a strict prey model style but nearly. And those people have been really helpful as well. People here really helped me too...a lot! I was quite the nervous one starting out...that I'd leave some important nutrient out of balance. It can be very dangerous in the long run if it is not a balanced diet for a dog. But I feel much more confident now. And the dogs do great.

Some people, myself included have proclaimed that dogs of the past, including my child hood dogs lived to be very old. I had an 18 year old Beagle/terrier mix and a 15 year old Lab mix who was the other dog's son. And they ate things like Purina. My son't dog is 16 and she eats Taste of the Wild kibble. My other Chihuahua (rip) ate TOTW and some premium canned food all her life and lived to be 14. (not extremely old I guess) My Chi, Jose` is now 14 and just switched to raw in December. Of course, that they lived that long may or may not have anything to do with what they ate. Maybe they inherited good genes, other kinds of good health that compensated for diet or maybe the diet wasn't so awful. I've heard that Purina was better in the past. I don't know that for a fact though. It's impossible to conclude what made their lives long. 

The thing is for me, that it's not all about longevity. It's about their_ quality_ of life, clean, plaque-free teeth and good health that comes from clean teeth and gums. It's very typical to see raw fed dogs without as much arthritis, without skin issues, with teeth that don't need brushing because raw bones are nature's toothbrush. You see people's dog's allergies disappear. Often. Not always, no doubt. I believe that it is the way dogs are designed to eat. Their digestive systems haven't changed during evolution...not much anyhow. They are almost identical to a wolf's except dogs have a little pancreatic amylase...more than wolves. They have smaller teeth and jaws. That's about it for differences. 

Commercial food wasn't even invented until about 70 years ago, give or take. What did domestic dogs eat before? Table scraps? A chicken from the farm? Meat from a rancher's cow? Dogs didn't eat processed food until recently. Processed food isn't good for us and it isn't good for dogs imo. Cooking destroys enzymes, amino acids and other anti oxidants. Commercial food usually contain way, way, way too many carbohydrates for a dog because they're cheap fillers. 

Anyhow, browse the food and health forums, go back some pages and take a look at the sticky posts that lead you to some good links for info. It does take some study to do it right and feel confident. Ask questions and post often. We'll be looking forward.


----------



## Dee84cali (Dec 16, 2015)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> Dee...If you browse the food sub forum, even going back a few pages, there are loads of threads about raw feeding, lots of discussion. I only started this back in December, so it's been about 5 months or so. I couldn't be happier with my dogs' health. Especially noticeable is in my old 14 year old Chihuahua. So many positive changes happened within about 2 weeks of starting a natural diet for him and the two Poodles. There are also sticky threads on top that have lots of good sites to go to. It IS important, if you're going to feed raw to learn a few of the basics. One of those basics is to start with just one protein source for a week or so to make sure the dog isn't sensitive to it. Then move onto another. If you feed all kinds of things all at once and the dog has an allergy or sensitivity to something you won't know what the culprit is. I like this site a lot: The Many Myths of Raw Feeding
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks again..


----------



## Dee84cali (Dec 16, 2015)

How about just throwing raw meats n bones from time to time with his kibbles? Or does it have to be only one?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

You can add raw meat and bones and other foods to kibble, but you need to take care not to unbalance the diet, and a dog used to processed food may struggle to digest large quantities of bone. Too much bone can lead to blockage or impaction. A few chunks of meat (especially raw green tripe, only available for pet food) or a small easily chewed and digested chicken wing at around 10-20% of total daily calories will enhance your dog's diet, although he may be less interested in kibble once he has tried the good stuff! If you want to feed more than that you really need to do some research to be sure that he gets the complete range of nutrients in the right balance.


----------



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Dee84cali said:


> How about just throwing raw meats n bones from time to time with his kibbles? Or does it have to be only one?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Personally, I wouldn't do that unless it was truly an occasional occurrence. The kibble is balanced. (supposedly) So when you add more meat and bone, that throws off the ratio of say...organ meat. It is no longer 10% of the whole thing. The other reason I wouldn't do it is that a lot of people say that cooked/kibble digests at a different rate than raw and it might cause some digestive upset. And the third reason I wouldn't do it is that I've come to distrust commercial dog food companies and what goes into commercial food. I came to understand that a well balanced, varied diet of raw meat, bones and organ (and maybe a small amount of pulverized veggies) is what nature intended our carnivore pets to eat. I see what I'm feeding them. It's whole, fresh and balanced and raw so that essential nutrients aren't destroyed by heat or other tampering with processing._ But _it did take some reading and learning. Not a huge amount but some. And you know what? I found that it is interesting and fun too. My dogs thoroughly enjoy their meals where they use to pick and eventually eat their meals but they often left their bowls. No way now. They are so happy with their food and gobble it right up.


----------



## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Dee84cali said:


> How about just throwing raw meats n bones from time to time with his kibbles? Or does it have to be only one?


People have been doing that since they started keeping dogs as pets. Throw whatever you like in his kibble.


----------



## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

I feed Hans mainly high quality commercial foods (mostly Ziwipeak) but he does occasionally get some raw. I think raw has great health benefits for dogs, but a totally raw diet just isn't an option for us. My mom raises chickens so I can get good free range organic chicken...he gets the extras when she butchers and I buy some other raw meat to supplement that. 

I do try to keep the ratios balanced when I feed him raw, so he gets balanced kibble and balanced raw meals. That way I'm not putting anything out of balance. I don't feed the commercial food and the raw in the same meal though usually. The main reason is that he eats the raw food outside. No way he's eating it in the house. This arrangement has worked out well for us.


----------



## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

I really should apologize for my abruptness. But it's often a mistake to mention the word raw in any dog forum. The Raw Feeders come piling out of the woodwork in their missionary zeal.

These people know calories, ounces, grams, protein, starch, carbohydrates... everything there is to know about Dog Diet. They're the PostDocs of the Doggy Diet world. To the rest of us stumbling along with our Bachelor of Kibble degrees it's like talking to rocket scientists... waaaay confusing. 

I don't feed Raw... so I can ignore them. If I were to ever feed Raw, they'd be the ones to listen to. 'Cos they know their stuff. 

But they confuse new members who don't know that there is a difference between 'raw' and 'Raw'.


----------



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)




----------



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Dee, if you want to incorporate raw into the diet, here's what I would do: Give some kibble in the morning or for one meal or the other. (always add a little water) Then for the next meal, you could give a raw meal. Give the raw meaty bone. If it's not_ that_ meaty, you might want to add some chunks of plain ole' meat and/or RAW GREEN tripe. (not the white stuff in human grocery stores. You won't find raw green there) The meat needs to be at aprox. 80% of the meal. (bone, 10%) You'll need to add to the meal about 10% organ. (half of which should be liver (beef preferably) and half another organ. This can be in one meal or you can alternate by days. If you give only a bone with a scanty amount of meat on it, you may wind up with a constipated dog. It doesn't take much bone to cause an impaction when it's not balanced out with organ and meat. It darn near happened to Matisse when I started out feeding raw. He had very hard, white poop which barely came out. So I quickly reduced the bone and increased the organ and muscle meat. If the organ and meat is too much, they get loose stools. I'm sure that once in a while a meaty bone is okay. But again, missing out on the organ and muscle meat means the dog is not getting adequate nutrition and it might affect his digestion. If you want to add vegetables, break them down first for your dog, as dogs can't really utilize vegetables, especially if not broken down. So, lightly steam and pulverize in a blender first. I add a very scanty amount of vegetables which vary. Sometimes it's a mix of (example) greens, carrots, celery, zucchini, broccoli, blue berries, apple, banana. And I give my toys just a tsp or so. 

So you can throw a raw meaty bone to your dog if you want to, but be very watchful. People may have been doing this for a long time. People do a lot of things but that doesn't mean those things are always wise. But I suspect in the old days, dogs got whole prey more often than not, like a whole rabbit with all the fixins. (muscle and organ meat, glands, bones, a little hair along the way etc) Good luck and happy feeding!:smile:


----------



## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

She asked a question about feeding her dog bones. On the basis of that, I assume she is a new dog owner. Experienced owners would already know. She was given good advice. 

Then she asked "Is raw OK?" - Now I'm thinking that a new owner would not know 'raw' from 'Raw', so is probably asking about raw in the context of bones. 

But not you Raw Feeders. You Raw Feeders completely hijacked this woman's thread. You jumped allllll over that poor woman with your zeal. Probably confused the heck out of her. I haven't seen her back since. 

Now when I bring this up, in a humorous and as gentle a way as possible... giving y'all a LOT of credit... you respond in your nastiest way possible.

Is there a reason for that?


----------



## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

I think if you are occasionally giving your dog some raw meat with its kibble it will be totally fine. I've done it when I have trimmings off of meat I'm cutting up for dinner, instead of the canned I normally use as a topper. I just feed the bigger pieces separately, outside, because Hans is prone to carrying them off, and I don't want raw meat all over my house/furniture. He's never had any issue having his regular dog food with a bit of raw meat. I just don't do it very often because of the raw meat all over the house issue. 

The main reason I try to keep the raw portion of his meal at least somewhat balanced is that sometimes it approaches 50% of his diet, when there is a lot of butchering happening (I'm not going to turn down free organic meat for my dog, but I don't have tons of freezer space to save it). I don't think I'm really a "Raw" feeder, and plenty of really hard core raw feeders may disagree with feeding both kibble and raw meat, and hard core kibble feeders will probably disagree with the variety of foods that he gets, but Hans is perfectly fine.


----------



## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

Throwing in raw meat or bones here and there shouldn't unbalance the diet worse than, say, treats do. Or any other edible chews.

Personally I've tried giving Archie raw bones as an alternative to his regular chews but he chews them up so slowly (even the little ones) that I end up stuck dealing with a raw bone in the house for days on end...yuck. So I mostly stick to stuff like bully sticks that are a little more sanitary if they're not eaten in one sitting.

We also grew up feeding our dogs cooked bones and never had a problem, but I imagine you have to know how to pick the right bones for the right dog, and it is still risky from what I've read. I'll go ahead and admit that my parents gave Archie some big, thick cooked rib bones to chew on last time we visited and he did fine with them - but he doesn't tend to crunch up bones (and these were too big for him to bite through anyway) so he was unlikely to encounter splinters. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but if it happens I wouldn't panic either.


----------



## Dee84cali (Dec 16, 2015)

So I started yesterday giving sire some beef cheek meat with a Little liver after he scarfs it up I give him a chicken thigh... He usually resting until 5 then he has his kibbles.. At 2-3 in the morning he usually eats again.. Should work on a everyday basis? Oh forgot, his stool is loose 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Liver can do that!


----------



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Countryboy said:


> I really should apologize for my abruptness. But it's often a mistake to mention the word raw in any dog forum. The Raw Feeders come piling out of the woodwork in their missionary zeal.
> 
> These people know calories, ounces, grams, protein, starch, carbohydrates... everything there is to know about Dog Diet. They're the PostDocs of the Doggy Diet world. To the rest of us stumbling along with our Bachelor of Kibble degrees it's like talking to rocket scientists... waaaay confusing.
> 
> ...



I don't for one minute think it's the new owners or the OP asking about raw who are confused. I've been pm'ing with the op. She's very much on the ball. 



> But they confuse new members who don't know that there is a difference between 'raw' and 'Raw'.


Okay what does that even mean? Now _I'm_ confused. Who's confusing whom on this thread? Providing information about food, about what the OP is wanting to know should not be criticized or devalued as you have done.



> I don't feed Raw... so I can ignore them.


Why don't you then? Information is only ignored by "certain" old school, ignorant people who have an aversion to new information or opinions of others. And that is NOT the OP. The Op and I have been pm'ing and she strikes me as very much on board, curious (which is a sign of intelligence) and receptive AND appreciative. 

Perhaps there's some kind of misunderstanding here. But your post came off as smart ass and passive aggressive, exaggerating, inflating in sarcastic way (the way I read it anyhow) raw feeders' credentials while at the same time implying how confusing we all are and I read it... that we really ought to basically clam up.

_We_ raw feeders hijacked the thread??? How? By providing information about the risks of feeding cooked bones or even raw bones by themselves? Allllll righty then. :crazy: I think you've hijacked the thread by taking it way off topic and talking about how we raw feeders are confusing the OP by giving our opinion. No one jumped on the OP. Everyone except for you has tried to be helpful with dietary information.

Carry on.


----------



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

FireStorm said:


> I think if you are occasionally giving your dog some raw meat with its kibble it will be totally fine. I've done it when I have trimmings off of meat I'm cutting up for dinner, instead of the canned I normally use as a topper. I just feed the bigger pieces separately, outside, because Hans is prone to carrying them off, and I don't want raw meat all over my house/furniture. He's never had any issue having his regular dog food with a bit of raw meat. I just don't do it very often because of the raw meat all over the house issue.
> 
> The main reason I try to keep the raw portion of his meal at least somewhat balanced is that sometimes it approaches 50% of his diet, when there is a lot of butchering happening (I'm not going to turn down free organic meat for my dog, but I don't have tons of freezer space to save it). I don't think I'm really a "Raw" feeder, and plenty of really hard core raw feeders may disagree with feeding both kibble and raw meat, and hard core kibble feeders will probably disagree with the variety of foods that he gets, but Hans is perfectly fine.


I don't disagree with variety of foods, not at all. And I know all too well that feeding raw is extra work and some people might find it easier to use kibble for one meal say...and incorporate in a little raw. The problem is that if there's a consistent over abundance of one of the components of a balanced diet, then it no longer is balanced. If raw meat is at such a high percentage that the other items are minuscule in comparison...if it is every day, for instance, then the dog may, in the long run suffer some nutritional malady. The calcium - phosphorus ratio needs to be kept pretty consistently correct or some health problems can come up down the road. Balancing The Calcium/Phosphorous Ratio In A Raw Diet For Dogs - Dogs Naturally Magazine This is what freaked me out when I started feeding raw...that I'd get these nutrients out of whack. I read and read and went on different raw food forums to find out things. Many of the ramifications of an unbalanced diet may not show up for years and then people start noticing health problems. This is what I've read. This is why I was nervous starting out. And this is what more experienced people relayed to me. They can eat lots of bone but not much more than 10% of their diet or things can get messed up. Too much organ meat and there can be an over dose of certain vitamins which can harm. Too much muscle meat compared to the other nutrients and there can be problems too. So, balance is what I've gathered is pretty darn important. It doesn't have to be every single day like I do it but over a week's time is what I understand. I try to balance things out every meal because it works better for my tiny dogs' digestion. So I grab a hunk of bone, a glob of liver or spleen or what have you and a handful of muscle meat, squirt in one pump of fish oil from a bottle and maybe a tsp of veggies. It's as simple as that. (well, more work to prepare) lol.


----------

