# Stubborn learning tricks!



## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

Have you tried different treats? Maybe your boy just doesn't feel that dried liver is good enough to do tricks for. Try cheese, or some boiled chicken/beef, or tiny bits of hotdog. Most dogs will do flips for those. Good luck!!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Did you originally teach him something that required him to stay in one place? Could be he is confused!

If one metod doesn't work, you may need to think of others - perhaps luring him to crawl under your raised leg, or a low table. Or change the treats, mom24 suggests. Or reward him with a game of tug instead of food. Don't even think "stubborn" - either he doesn't understand, or you've not yet found a way of motivating him! I always found Down was very difficult to teach on hard, chilly surfaces, especially for puppies with their bare pink tummies - trying again on a carpet or rug made all the difference for us. Along with changing the cue to Flat - Down already meant don't jump up/four paws on the ground, and they got very confused!


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

How about upping the value factor of the treat? Might work.


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## ladybird (Jul 9, 2011)

Another thing he does is this: he WILL start doing the trick correctly (I use a clicker), then after several repetitions he'll stop doing it again as if he doesn't know what to do. I mean, he does try at first but it's like he gets bored very quickly or something. Maybe I'm not using the right treats? I shall try something else and see if that works

p.s. fjm no its not because I taught him anything that would conflict (I taught 'down' very early before he knew much commands at all)


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## stealthq (Aug 4, 2011)

ladybird said:


> Another thing he does is this: he WILL start doing the trick correctly (I use a clicker), then after several repetitions he'll stop doing it again as if he doesn't know what to do. I mean, he does try at first but it's like he gets bored very quickly or something.


Yep, my puppy does this too and I can about guarantee that my pup, at least, DOES get bored. I've had him start yawning in class and mentally checking out when they ask for "puppy pushups" for the nth time. It helps if I break things up by asking him for tricks in a different order, teaching him something new, or by having a quick play-break.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

One of my dogs just loves, loves, loves to fetch so her high-value treat is a squeaky kong ball. She'd rather have that tossed in the air to catch and squeak than treats any day. Does Nimbus likes toys a lot (hopefully?)


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

ladybird said:


> Another thing he does is this: he WILL start doing the trick correctly (I use a clicker), then after several repetitions he'll stop doing it again as if he doesn't know what to do. I mean, he does try at first but it's like he gets bored very quickly or something. Maybe I'm not using the right treats? I shall try something else and see if that works
> 
> p.s. fjm no its not because I taught him anything that would conflict (I taught 'down' very early before he knew much commands at all)


He isn't stubborn. You just haven't given him either a) a good enough reason to try to figure out what you want, or b) he doesn't understand what you want. You could be varying your body language or asking for the down in a context he doesn't understand.

I'd try better treats and more work on your own signals. If you search Kikopup on Youtube, you will find a ton of short, useful, training videos on teaching various tricks and behaviours (and her dogs are amazing). She primarily uses luring and clickers, so it sounds like she is in your space.

In training my poodle, I find he has very little tolerance for repetition or drilling. In his view, he's done is right three times, what the heck do I want now? Then he starts to vary things, usually in ways I hadn't anticipated :smile:. I mix training up a lot, combine cues in different ways, go from training things that require him to move on to training things that require him to be in one place, etc. Poodle brains are lightning fast.

For specifically teaching down, I put a treat in a closed hand, then move the hand under the chin of the STANDING dog, into his chest and down. They usually fold down (which is the down you want for obedience).


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

My dog's most-loved training treats are: liver cake, hot dogs or sausages, boiled chicken, left-over bits of roast, chicken skin (I fry it crisp for him and it is doggie crack), cheese, leftover crispy duck (when we eat Chinese), etc. 

Think smelly and greasy and your dog will love you :smile:.


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## ladybird (Jul 9, 2011)

Indiana - Yes he does, especially if it's a brand new toy. He will do anything to get hold of it haha! I shall try that next time and see what happens

JE-UK - I think it's because he gets bored after he does it right a few times, like the previous poster mentioned and yourself where your poodle varies things after a few repetitions (he does this too). I will try mixing it up a bit from now on and taking play breaks as suggested. (he knows down already, it was another trick I was trying to teach him but the way he behaves is the same as when I was trying to teach him down or any other trick for that matter!)

also, I do already look at videos when I'm searching for something new to teach him so I know where to start. They are helpful indeed!

Bottom line I think is that poodles get bored of repetition very quickly!!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think it's partly boredom, and partly "I've already done that, she must want something different this time". Poppy's problem is that she gets so excited she finds it hard to concentrate - she does lie down, but manages to bounce even in that position! Sophy seems to get anxious about getting things right - I actually pulled back from training tricks etc with her because she found it stressful. She is much happier if she is the one inventing games and teaching them to me!


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

JE-UK - thanks for the info on kikopup training on YouTube. I just watched a Sit Stay -- and she is ver good and yes, lots of food reinforcements, but she seems to know what she is doing. Will need to check out others. I keep thinking that wow, I'd have to cut Sunny's meals down to ZILCH if I did that much food training though. As it is, I am worried about his little waist broadening with the lack of good running exercise he is used to.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

liljaker said:


> I keep thinking that wow, I'd have to cut Sunny's meals down to ZILCH if I did that much food training though. As it is, I am worried about his little waist broadening with the lack of good running exercise he is used to.


Nothing wrong with him getting his full meal allowance in training. Often, if we are doing a lot of training, mine gets a symbolic dinner rather than the real thing, i.e. 5 bits of kibble and a teaspoon of wet. He does not think much of this idea :smile:.


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