# Beckie’s allergy testing (through raw food ) journal



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Here’s what I’ve tested so far :

1- Turkey (with beef green tripe) : ok

2- Chicken (with beef green tripe) : butt licking, general discomfort.
She was given only 3 meals (2 mixed with turkey and 1 only chicken) but it took 5 days for the butt licking to stop. She had gastric discomfort after the first chicken meal.

3- Turkey (without beef green tripe, different brand) : ok

Next test :

4- Beef (with beef green tripe) : starting tomorrow

Improvements after 3 weeks (started on june 15th)

no more runny eyes (barely any eye boogers)
more energy
less pooping
much smaller poops
no poop eating (it’s all digested, nothing left to eat)
no butt licking (except on chicken)
no anal glands having to be emptied
no anal gland leaking and fishy smell
A nibbler no more, Beckie devours her food !
It’s a little early to talk about benefits, but that’s what it is so far. Only time will tell if it will last.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Thank you for documenting this! I had no idea Beckie had been struggling so much for so long. This sounds like it could be a real life changer for both of you.

I'll be eagerly following along.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I hope you've found the trick for her. I'm that will make you both very happy!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I am so glad you are already seeing improvements - I hope she continues to do well. If chicken is the culprit it could explain why so many foods upset her - chicken turns up in practically all of them in one form or another.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

fjm said:


> If chicken is the culprit it could explain why so many foods upset her - chicken turns up in practically all of them in one form or another.


When she was younger I had spotted that chicken was a problem so she was eating limited ingredient kibble with salmon and I also tried duck and probably a few other rare games. She was still having problems so I think she also has trouble digesting some of the other ingredients added. I’ll never truly find out unless maybe for a few ingredients, if I did a Nutriscan.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

@fjm I just read your baby is allergic to legumes. I think Beckie might be too, and probably to grains as well.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Not legumes in our case - Sophy cannot eat turkey, but I think it is an intolerance rather than allergy. Poppy is now on a (supposedly) very strict diet, but it is difficult to manage as she grabs everything she can (this afternoon half a pea pod; most unlikely theft was a pickled gherkin; in between she digs for roots and worms and bugs). It is therefore hard to know if her now near constant squidgy output is down to her liver disease or dietary indiscretion or, as I think most likely, both. I plan on a meeting with her vet next week when he is back from a month's furlough to discuss where we go from here...

I think the exclusion diet is the gold standard for identifying issues - hard work and needs consistency and dedication, but worth it to have a list of safe foods.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

fjm said:


> in between she digs for roots and worms and bugs)


Beckie is the same ! I wonder if it’s a natural way of cleaning their system.



fjm said:


> I plan on a meeting with her vet next week when he is back from a month's furlough to discuss where we go from here...


Let me know what they say. I plan to have Beckie tested in about 6 months to see hoe her liver is doing. I might be inspired by what your vet decides to do with Poppy.



fjm said:


> I think the exclusion diet is the gold standard for identifying issues - hard work and needs consistency and dedication, but worth it to have a list of safe foods.


Absolutely !


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Update : beef is out ! After 6 meals, we’re back to staring at the butt and intense butt licking. She’ll be having turkey for breakfast tomorrow and until the licking stops. If it’s like chicken, it should take about 5 days.

In the meantime I will decide which protein I try next : maybe pork or duck. It has to be something made by at least two companies and readily available. I hope I can find 3 proteins that work, as I want to make sure she has a complete diet.

I’m going away in a few weeks and I’d like to have at least two tested proteins to bring for her. I have 4-5 weeks to make it happen. Let’s hope it works !


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I can't remember if you have tried salmon, other than in a kibble?


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## VanessaC (Feb 24, 2020)

So glad things are looking up!

How long has she been exclusively raw fed? Her immune system might improve after a few months and you might find she’s more able to tolerate other proteins then. It might also be beneficial to see if she’s able to tolerate raw goat’s milk as the probiotics can also be very beneficial. 

Looking forward to hearing more about her journey!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Although, further to salmon, I am not sure about feeding it raw - probably safer cooked. I am uneasy about raw pork too, although I believe freezing pork for several weeks kills the parasites that cause trichinosis. 

Lamb tripe may be a possibility for Becky - pongs, but not quite as badly as beef tripe!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

fjm said:


> I can't remember if you have tried salmon, other than in a kibble?


No I haven’t. I don’t even know if they make raw salmon. I sure would like to try it though.



VanessaC said:


> How long has she been exclusively raw fed? Her immune system might improve after a few months and you might find she’s more able to tolerate other proteins then. It might also be beneficial to see if she’s able to tolerate raw goat’s milk as the probiotics can also be very beneficial.


She started raw on june 15th, so almost 1 month. Interesting to know that she might tolerate more proteins in a few months. I’ll definitely try again then !



fjm said:


> Although, further to salmon, I am not sure about feeding it raw - probably safer cooked. I am uneasy about raw pork too, although I believe freezing pork for several weeks kills the parasites that cause trichinosis.


The brand I buy is very expensive and human grade. I know they test their production a lot and take great precautions. I’ve never heard of trichinosis but I’ll look it up.



fjm said:


> Lamb tripe may be a possibility for Becky - pongs, but not quite as badly as beef tripe!


I might test lamb if I can find it. The green tripe Beckie eats is part of the recipe and doesn’t smell at all. You don’t even know it’s there. On a side note, I wonder why she tolerates beef green tripes but not beef...


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

Dechi said:


> I’ve never heard of trichinosis but I’ll look it up.


Trichinosis is an illness caused by little worms that live in raw pork and can only be gotten rid of by cooking at high temps, I think. Freezing might work too, but I would check to make extra sure. Anyways, the worms settle in your joints and eyes and can cause serious, often fatal damage to the organism that is unlucky enough to be the host. I learned about it in biology as a kid and didn’t eat pork for a week. 

On a side note, duck is a bit gamey, but super tasty, and apparently really good for people, protein and fat-wise. I bet Beckie would love it!


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## Michigan Gal (Jun 4, 2019)

I think your dog needs probiotic. Amway sells a probiotic that you can put on the dog's food. I tried it with one of my foster dogs with bad digestion problems and it worked well.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Michigan Gal said:


> I think your dog needs probiotic. Amway sells a probiotic that you can put on the dog's food. I tried it with one of my foster dogs with bad digestion problems and it worked well.


Probiotics can’t hurt but in her case the allergies/intolerances are too severe for probiotics to solve the problem. She’s been on them before, and recently when she was ill.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

FloofyPoodle said:


> Trichinosis is an illness caused by little worms that live in raw pork and can only be gotten rid of by cooking at high temps, I think. Freezing might work too, but I would check to make extra sure. Anyways, the worms settle in your joints and eyes and can cause serious, often fatal damage to the organism that is unlucky enough to be the host. I learned about it in biology as a kid and didn’t eat pork for a week.
> 
> On a side note, duck is a bit gamey, but super tasty, and apparently really good for people, protein and fat-wise. I bet Beckie would love it!


Here it says Canada has had no trichinosis case since 1980. It also says freezing gets rid of it. I will read more aboutit but here is the source :









Can Our Pets Eat Raw Pork?


YES! Pork is a wonderful meat for our pets. Most dogs and cats love pork and do very well with it. At Food Fur Life we often recommend pork loin as a starter meat when introducing raw food. For many...



www.foodfurlife.com





Another interesting article, which makes me want to feed it :



https://rpfcdn.azureedge.net/kentico-media/mysite/media/barf/content/pdf/raw-pork-trichinosis_dr-b-s-barf.pdf


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## VanessaC (Feb 24, 2020)

I’m not sure about Canada, but, in the US, most commercially available frozen raw food is also high pressure pasteurized (HPP) to kill off any bacteria.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

VanessaC said:


> I’m not sure about Canada, but, in the US, most commercially available frozen raw food is also high pressure pasteurized (HPP) to kill off any bacteria.


I’m not 100% sure but I think not.

Here’s an interesting article about allergies in dogs by a holistic vet specializing in nutrition.









Caring for a Dog with Food Allergies


WebMD illustrates the signs, symptoms, and triggers for food allergies in dogs to help you treat and care for your canine companion.




pets.webmd.com


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Michigan Gal said:


> I think your dog needs probiotic. Amway sells a probiotic that you can put on the dog's food. I tried it with one of my foster dogs with bad digestion problems and it worked well.


I was under the impression it was best to give them canine-specific strains. Maybe it depends on what bacteria they need most?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Update : 5 days have passed since the raw beef trial and Beckie is still licking her butt. I’m getting discouraged. If Beckie can’t tolerate the turkey, the only one that worked so far, I wonder where to go next... 

I’ll give it a little more time, it took 5 days for the chicken allergy to pass. But I’m getting nervous.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Fingers crossed for you both.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Hoping for some good Beckie bum news tomorrow.....


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

Maybe she’s more allergic to beef than chicken? Fingers crossed for some good news.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

FloofyPoodle said:


> Maybe she’s more allergic to beef than chicken? Fingers crossed for some good news.


That’s what I think too (and hope) !


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Pogo has been ill lately, and the vet has been having us try Royal Canin hydrolyzed formula. Expensive, and a hassle because we have to get it from the vet, but he's tolerating it well after not getting relief from home cooked beef or home cooked chicken. He also loves the kibbles enough that I can use them like training treats.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

cowpony said:


> Pogo has been ill lately, and the vet has been having us try Royal Canin hydrolyzed formula. Expensive, and a hassle because we have to get it from the vet, but he's tolerating it well after not getting relief from home cooked beef or home cooked chicken.


It works well with some dogs but there are way too many ingredients and it doesn’t suit Beckie. I’ve tried about 4 different vet foods, all very expensive. I still have one that Merlin is finishing.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Dechi said:


> It works well with some dogs but there are way too many ingredients and it doesn’t suit Beckie. I’ve tried about 4 different vet foods, all very expensive. I still have one that Merlin is finishing.


I hope you find something that suits her. It's so frustrating when they feel bad and you just can't figure out how to fix it


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I just realized something last night while reading a different post on PF... There are two types of butt licking for Beckie : « I’m having an allergic reaction » and « my glands are full » (or a mix of both) !

I had forgotten the latter. This morning I emptied her glands and they were mega full. Hopefully no more butt licking, but now I have to make sure to distinguish between the two types.

Sigh. Why can’t this allergy thing be just a little easier ?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I’ve gone to the store and bought rabbit for Beckie. It’s the only protein, besides turkey, that is really low fat (4%). Since she is having reflux after every meal, I figure the fat content is too high for her liver (she might have chronic cholestasis). She has also been eating more grass in the last week, which is probably to get relief from gastric discomfort or nausea.

I will now stay on low fat food. The only raw meal that seemed to worked perfectly so far is the first I tried, which was 3% fat turkey.

After emptying her glands, she was still going for her bum this morning. Let’s hope it gets better. Oh, and when I woke up this morning, I had 4-5 vomit spots and poop on floor. I suppose the vomit might be from Beckie (It looks like « grass » vomit) and the poop from Merlin, but it’s impossible to be certain.

This is getting hard and complicated. If I don’t get anywhere within the next 4-6 weeks, I will try to find a dog allergist, although they might not even exist.


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## Porkchop (Sep 2, 2019)

That must be a helpless and sad feeling. Going such great lengths to try and find something Beckie can eat without getting sick and the cycle when she has a bad reaction. Hopefully it really is just the beef allergy needing the full week to get better. Poor sweet girl. 
I hope the rabbit works out for her.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

So complicated. I really feel for you.

The holistic vet near us helps with dietary planning and allergy testing. Do you have one you could consult with? I imagine they could even help remotely, by phone or online.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> So complicated. I really feel for you.
> 
> The holistic vet near us helps with dietary planning and allergy testing. Do you have one you could consult with? I imagine they could even help remotely, by phone or online.


I don’t know, I haven’t been able to find one so far. I’ll look more in a few weeks if I am still feeling I am going nowhere. If I could, I would cook for her but because of health problems, I don’t even cook for myself so it’s not an option.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Update : six weeks later, we’re almost back to square one. I’ve made the mistake of feeding Beckie some other food besides the protein I was testing. At first it seemed to work, but then the itching was happening no matter what protein I was feeding and it just became a big, confusing mess.

Why was I doing that ? Well, my dogs are used to having healthy foods in tiny amount (apples, bananas, yogurt, strawberries...) and also they have get a healthy dog treat at noon and 6 pm every day. And Beckie is very, very demanding of her food. She will torment you until she gets it. So I was trying to find ways to keep up with her routine so she would be happy. But you can’t do an elimination diet this way; it just won’t work. I’ve had to empty her glands three times in the past 10-12 days, maybe from me trying different treats less likely to trigger her allergies. I’ll never know.

So I basically wasted six weeks... Not entirely, at least I know chicken and beef don’t work. That I’m sure about. 

Since yesterday I’ve only been feeding the one protein food. She doesn’t understand why she’s not getting her usual food. It breaks my heart but I don’t have a choice if we want to succeed.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Oh Dechi, how frustrating for you and little Beckie. It's a setback, but you'll get the trial back on track.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

When Poppy was strictly on the sensitivity canned food I made crunchy treats by baking tiny bits. Perhaps you could try something similar? Baking to a soft chewy consistency, then drying half till they were very crispy gave me three different consistencies, which convinced Poppy she was still getting a whole range of different foods. I made the treats very tiny, using a silicon fat draining mat, so she could have lots of them every day. They don't take long, and each baking makes around 800, so they go a long way.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

fjm said:


> When Poppy was strictly on the sensitivity canned food I made crunchy treats by baking tiny bits. Perhaps you could try something similar?


I wonder how pure raw meat would turn ? I have to admit also that I am miserable feeding raw and this would just feel like another chore. 

Beckie has been two days strictly on rabbit meat. She looks miserable all day long. She wants her apple, her babana, her yogurt. I feel her pain. I truly hate this way of feeding and I have decided it’s not for me. If I were convinced Beckie is 100% healthy on it, maybe. But she still has reflux and I am not convinced this is the best way to feed a dog. Too much proteins. They are omnivores, not carnivores.

Anyways, I have to keep doing it for at many more weeks, until I come to a definite conclusion. Right now, after those 2 days without anything else but her meat, the licking seems to be diminishing. She still does it at bedtime though. And those reflux. Even Merlin has them and he doesn’t have any gastric or liver problems.

Once I know for sure what proteins she can have, I will find the best low fat kibble possible, and I will top it with raw meat. This way she can have the best of both worlds. Before they used to say you couldn’t feed kibble with raw because it wasn’t digested the same way, but now it’s said to be untrue.

I found Rayne that made low fat, single protein kibble, but since they moved their plant from Australia to the USA, customers are complaining big time about the quality. Still looking, if anyone knows of a company. It’s very hard to find a low fat, single protein kibble.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Is there any reason it has to be raw? I personally would find a large crock pot of dog food prepared once and then frozen for weeks more convenient. And i would much rather feed rabbit cooked tidbits as treats than raw!!! 

This website has some interesting recipes that are more nutritionally balanced: 




__





Feeding A Normal Dog or Cat






dogcathomeprepareddiet.com





I know a lot of dogs do very well on raw and high protein, and a lot of dogs do better on lower protein. 

I am a fan of natural balance for Limited ingredient lower protein foods. They tend to be one protein, one or two grain sources which is really nice. Natures variety also had decent LID foods (inclusing a rabbit recipe) but i havent looked in years.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Is there any reason it has to be raw? I personally would find a large crock pot of dog food prepared once and then frozen for weeks more convenient. And i would much rather feed rabbit cooked tidbits as treats than raw!!!


I can’t cook for my dogs. I have to find something all prepared. I hate raw with a passion. I’m using it because it’s the only way for now to feed only one ingredient. Anything else would have carbs, grains, legumes or others.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

There are a few canned foods I have found that are single ingredient too.

I used to sell dog food - it was pretty rare to see a reaction to rice. Tapioca is the other good one - was told by one sales rep there is no known allergies to tapioca in any animal (pure starch, no protein). Wholesome blend was the other brand we used for super limited dogs. 

Can Beckie handle duck? Natural balance has a Potato and Duck or a Brown rice and duck that might work. Or here's a Turkey formula ...https://www.instinctpetfood.com/dogs/limited-ingredient-diet/instinct-limited-ingredient-diet-grain-free-recipe-real-turkey-small









Limited Ingredient Diet Rabbit Wet Dog Food - Instinct Pet Food







www.instinctpetfood.com





Would canned be better for you than raw? 

Really hope you can find something that works for her.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

For Want of Poodle said:


> There are a few canned foods I have found that are single ingredient too.


Do you have specific name brands ? I haven’t found any besides Rayne. It needs to be low fat (around 5%) and single proteins with very limited ingredients. No grain, no soy, no corn. Nothing with a name we don’t understand.



For Want of Poodle said:


> Can Beckie handle duck?


It hasn’t been tested yet but it’s a fat meat. Turkey, rabbit, kangaroo and venison, for example, are lean. So far beef and turkey are out. Turkey is okay, rabbit probably but gives her reflux.



For Want of Poodle said:


> Really hope you can find something that works for her.


Thank you !


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

No brand names on the wet single ingredient - just noticed when I was looking for wet food for Annie last time. 

Natural Balance Grain Free Turkey (peas)? As a dry dog food. Its basically turkey, peas, and vitamins and minerals. They have a venison formal too. 

Otherwise check out Wellness and Nature's variety Instinct 

All 3 do canned as well as kibble and even treats.

Zignatues (sp?) also does LID, but I have no experience with them.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Natural Balance Grain Free Turkey (peas)? As a dry dog food. Its basically turkey, peas, and vitamins and minerals. They have a venison formal too.


Thank you, I will check it out !


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Update : I’m close to giving up. I think an elimination diet is very hard to do without the help of a vet. Beckie has been licking her butt no matter what I feed. Right now she’s been on salmon for 2 days and still licking. So she might have intolerances/allergies to most animal proteins, or a combination of food intolerance and environmental allergies.

I’ve brought a stool sample at the vet for analysis, just to make sure she doesn’t have parasites. She was on vet dewormer in June, but apparently she could have caught parasites from the raw food. I doubt it, but just to make sure. She has been having accidents at night also for a while. Next accident, I’ll bring urine for analysis as well. To make sure she doesn’t have a UTI or other.

She’s not fond of the salmon, she can’t eat that for life even if it works. I don’t really feel like trying other proteins would work. I’ll give her salmon for at least one more week and then either I see a vet dermatologist ($$$$) or I go back to the vet food shop, where the employees are trained on every food they sell and get some specialized hypoallergenic dog food and go from there. They have lots of brands to choose from. No more Royal canin for any of my dogs.

Besides the licking, she is doing very well. Very active. And Merlin is eating raw too and he’s playing like a puppy ! Both of them play chase every day, multiple times. It brings me joy.

More to come.


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

Dechi said:


> Beckie has been licking her butt no matter what I feed.


I wonder if it’s an obsessive behavior that started with actual itchiness (possibly from bad poops as a puppy), and then progressed from there? I’m sure you’ve tried it, but have you thought about training her not to lick it (I. E., rewarding for each period of time that she goes with no licks)? Or used the Cone of Shame until it heals completely? It could also be a hot spot type of situation, where if the dog doesn’t lick, it itches, but if they do, it makes matters worse?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

FloofyPoodle said:


> I wonder if it’s an obsessive behavior that started with actual itchiness (possibly from bad poops as a puppy), and then progressed from there? I’m sure you’ve tried it, but have you thought about training her not to lick it (I. E., rewarding for each period of time that she goes with no licks)? Or used the Cone of Shame until it heals completely? It could also be a hot spot type of situation, where if the dog doesn’t lick, it itches, but if they do, it makes matters worse?


All good points. I’ve been putting ihle’s paste on her rectum to ease the burn. She still licks (in june, she was raw and even had anal bleeding and the ihle’s paste helped and I also did cold bum showers then). She is not obsessive most of the time. Right now she licks maybe 5-6 times a day, but she knows she’s not supposed to and I’m sure she does it a lot longer when I’m not there, during the night. 

I would use the cone if needed but right now she is not raw. Her rectum isn’t red or inflamed, I make sure of it. She licks her behind, she scratches her ears and chin, sometimes she bites her paws or her side. But not to the point of being obsessive. A few times a day each so every hour she has either licked, scratched or bit herself.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

It's really good to hear that she's otherwise doing well, Merlin too . 

I definitely understand why you want to solve this. Remo got butt obsessed for a while, not licking but scooting, and our vet said that environmental as well as food allergies can cause that reaction. 

I don't remember if you've gone the allergy med route, treating it more as an environmental allergy?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Wish I had a magical solution for you. I know how discouraging this process can be. 

I agree that there could be environmental factors, possibly even beyond your control. Heck, I was sore and itchy for _months_ while living in North Carolina, because our county's water was so atrociously chemical-laden. As I understood it, they shifted the chemical ratio for the winter months, which is what triggered that particular nightmare. I felt like I was being bitten by a million bugs after every shower.

Imagine trying to figure that kind of reaction out in a dog? Who would suspect _water_?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Rose n Poos said:


> I don't remember if you've gone the allergy med route, treating it more as an environmental allergy?


I haven’t and will if the vet thinks it’s the way to go. The thing is I am sure there is a food component in the problem. When she was a puppy, she would cry in pain after eating certain foods. Then she had vomiting /diarrhea episodes, once or twice a year and a lot more when she was a puppy.



PeggyTheParti said:


> Imagine trying to figure that kind of reaction out in a dog? Who would suspect _water_?


Ouch, that is not something anyone would think about ! I’m glad you’re better, it must have been terrible...


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Just doing some reading about seasonal allergies and saw this list:

Symptoms of seasonal allergies include:

Biting
Excessive paw licking
Licking the hindquarters
Scooting
Scratching

And that article took me to this one, which I'd read a long time ago but totally forgotten about:









Chances Are Its Not a Food Allergy for Your Dog - TuftsYourDog


Your dogs skin is itching, perhaps to the point that he may even be licking his paws or chewing on his feet. Or he keeps vomiting or having diarrhea.




www.tuftsyourdog.com





“But more commonly,” she says, “it’s something about the amount of fat in the food, or the way the food was cooked, or the fiber level. A dog might simply do better with twice the fiber or half the fat. An allergy has nothing to do with that. Of course, sometimes, a dog has a disease of the gastrointestinal tract that needs to be identified and treated.”

I wonder if Beckie might have a couple of different issues going on, which could be addressed separately to relieve at least some of her symptoms?

I've researched allergy medications before, for both Gracie and Peggy. With Gracie, I just started giving her Benadryl at night when her symptoms flared up (hers were clearly seasonal). 

Obviously this is something you'd consult with your vet about, but even just a trial run to see if the licking stops could be really helpful in narrowing your focus.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> “But more commonly,” she says, “it’s something about the amount of fat in the food, or the way the food was cooked, or the fiber level. A dog might simply do better with twice the fiber or half the fat. An allergy has nothing to do with that. Of course, sometimes, a dog has a disease of the gastrointestinal tract that needs to be identified and treated.”
> 
> I wonder if Beckie might have a couple of different issues going on, which could be addressed separately to relieve at least some of her symptoms?


That’s interesting ! Vet said she had appearance of cholestase in june, which is a liver problem. And to put her on low fat diet and I did, mostly.

I’ve put her on 3% fat turkey and thought she was doing fine for a while, but there was beef green tripe in the mix and she was still itching. Then I tried another type of turkey without anything else that was 11% fat and that didn’t work. I tried rabbit at 4% fat and salmon at 4.4% and she’s still itching and licking her butt.

Also, and vets don’t understand why, her salivary glands are swollen, always. I’ve had an aspiration of liquid done and it was said to be normal. But they said they might have missed whatever it was, because they only aspirate a small amount. I might have it done again.

About seasonal allergies, I exclude the possibility because I’ve looked at her medical records and the butt licking and itching was mentioned by me many times in winter, with the very cold temperatures and snow.

I made an appointment with a vet dermatologist but there is a 2 1/2 months wait. I asked to be called by the vet who saw her in june, to talk about diet options. I’ve also called the vet food store again and they said they had a soya protein hypoallergenic food made by purina. Vegetarian food is something I’ve never tried so it might be worth a shot. I don’t know, I’m so confused I don’t know what to think anymore. And I’ve got more than 100$ worth of raw food in my freezer...


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

@PeggyTheParti I’ve read the article and it reminded me that I brush her teeth with toothpaste. I wonder what people do about that...


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Frustrating isn't it, I opted to go with novel protien with Pia, so no beef, poultry, lamb. I tried bison, kangaroo and fish.
Fish and Bison is what Pia does best on, there only a few kibble Brands she does well on. Health Extension and Canidae Smsll batch.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

twyla said:


> Fish and Bison is what Pia does best on, there only a few kibble Brands she does well on. Health Extension and Canidae Smsll batch.


What are Pia’s allergy symptoms ?


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Diarrhea, stomach pain, belching, vomiting and tear staining. 
Pia also has environmental allergies that in the spring and summer has her chewing and licking her butt and feet Apoquel helps the environmental allergies, along with bathing regularly and wiping her down when she coming inside.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Environmental allergies could be related to indoors things, too, like mould, dust, dust mites, etc., which are common allergens even in the winter (possibly even made worse by limited ventilation in the cold months).

I wonder if just continuing to feed her high quality raw with the addition of an antihistamine might show some results. That's one solution I kept arriving at when researching Peggy's butt problems.

Or maybe the dermatologist will run some allergy tests that aren't too unpleasant for Beckie. 

The other thing I'm wondering now is if the itching has nothing to do with allergies at all, and could be related to her liver? Liver disorders can often present this way. 

Could also cause swelling of the salivary glands...

Just thinking aloud here. I know you're exhausted by all this. I'm going to be keeping my fingers crossed for you that the dermatologist is helpful and proactive. You shouldn't have to navigate this alone.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would not discount the toothpaste - after all, we have had a PF poodle once before where that proved to be the cause of constant digestive upsets. I feel for you - I now have four different diets for four animals, with a sort of Venn diagram of who can have bits of whose, and it gets very complicated. I would hold onto the frozen meat, though - it will keep, and once you find the culprit(s) it may yet be useful.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I wonder if just continuing to feed her high quality raw with the addition of an antihistamine might show some results. That's one solution I kept arriving at when researching Peggy's butt problems.


I hate raw food with a passion. With my OCD about cleaning, it becomes a tedious task everytime I feed and it triggers anxiety. I was hoping to free feed high quality low fat hypoallergenic kibble, with some raw food on top once a day but once a day. But that’s only possible if I find the right protein. Right now she’s about to stop eating salmon, she doesn’t care for it too much.

What antihistamine can you give a dog ? My vet has never mentioned this to me. It seems all they want is to push their food...




PeggyTheParti said:


> Or maybe the dermatologist will run some allergy tests that aren't too unpleasant for Beckie.


I hope he finds something, but that’s only in october. I hope we’ll be okay by then and I don’t even need to go.



PeggyTheParti said:


> The other thing I'm wondering now is if the itching has nothing to do with allergies at all, and could be related to her liver? Liver disorders can often present this way.
> 
> Could also cause swelling of the salivary glands...


Yes, that’s a possibility and it’s why I need low-fat food for her.




fjm said:


> I would not discount the toothpaste - after all, we have had a PF poodle once before where that proved to be the cause of constant digestive upsets.


I only used a very tiny amount last night but wonder what I could use ? I mean, this is what makes her want to have her teeth brushed...


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> What antihistamine can you give a dog ? My vet has never mentioned this to me. It seems all they want is to push their food...


I'd say it's time for another vet, but that's so common. Hard to find vets that don't push their own products. Personally, I feel it's a conflict of interest, but I suppose that's a whole other topic.

We gave Gracie Benadryl, but only occasionally. You should also be able to discuss your options and get a prescription from your vet. Ideally they'd also walk you through potential side effects to help inform your decision.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

When I was being ultra careful with Poppy's diet I brushed her teeth with plain water and gave her a tiny safe treat afterwards - may be worth trying while feeding hypoallergenic if only to rule it out as a problem.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I'd say it's time for another vet, but that's so common. Hard to find vets that don't push their own products. Personally, I feel it's a conflict of interest, but I suppose that's a whole other topic.
> 
> We gave Gracie Benadryl, but only occasionally. You should also be able to discuss your options and get a prescription from your vet. Ideally they'd also walk you through potential side effects to help inform your decision.


I’ve called them a few times to discuss off the shelf medication but they always make me feel like it’s going to kill my dog and to do it at my own risk. I’m starting to think I should change vets as well... Honestly I don’t know where to go, I’ve tried 3-4 around here and none impressed me. :-(


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

fjm said:


> When I was being ultra careful with Poppy's diet I brushed her teeth with plain water and gave her a tiny safe treat afterwards - may be worth trying while feeding hypoallergenic if only to rule it out as a problem.


The poor thing doesn’t even have safe treats. Only food and a little toothpaste...


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Dechi how low fat are you looking for?


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Dechi, I know you’ve been looking at protein, but maybe the problem is not protein but fibre? When I was figuring out Babykins diet both my vet and my research pointed to many dog foods currently on the market were too high in fat and don’t have enough fibre? I read you were watching the fat content but nothing about fibre.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

twyla said:


> Dechi how low fat are you looking fo


Well, funny you ask. The ER vet who treated Beckie in june returned my call and helped me for the next steps. I asked about low fat food and she said it might not be necessary, since the liver problem was very mild and probably temporary.

She also told me there are no low-fat/hypoallergenic foods available and since I want to test for allergies, I’ll have to settle for a normal amount of fat.



Skylar said:


> Dechi, I know you’ve been looking at protein, but maybe the problem is not protein but fibre? When I was figuring out Babykins diet both my vet and my research pointed to many dog foods currently on the market were too high in fat and don’t have enough fibre? I read you were watching the fat content but nothing about fibre.


You’re right, I haven’t been watching the fiber content, or even aware of it. I guess there isn’t much fiber in raw meat.

But... we’re done ! No more raw food. She’s tired of eating the salmon and I see no point in trying another protein.
It has been 10 weeks during which I’ve made mistakes, but the last 2 were strictly raw meat. No matter what I tried, she was always licking and sometimes itching. So this food is not solving the problem, and it’s a royal pain in the butt to feed.

Tomorrow I’m going to the vet to get her a hypoallergenic food. The ER vet suggested a few. Then, as suggested by the ER vet (who unfortunately can’t see me, I wish), I wil go to my regular vet and ask for a rectal/vaginal smear (not sure if it’s the correct word). She also suggested we might try Apoquel or injections and to talk to my vet about it. I need to find another vet but for now will go to my old one. Next step, if we’re still having gastric problems, she suggested an internal medicine vet. And to see the dermatologist in october.

I’m very disappointed, I was hoping I would find at least one protein that solved the problem. Salmon is the best of them all, but there is still licking. With salmon, she only does it when I can’t see her. With the other meats, she does it in front of me, it gets too much and she can’t help it.

I’ll keep updating, hoping there is a happy ending to this. 

Thanks to everyone who is giving me advice. It helps a lot !


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Keeping your quest, Beckie's health, and your sanity all in my thoughts .


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

You can get samples of kibble, 
The kibble I feed Pia is Health Extension White Fish and Bison the other one was Canidae Small Batch Bison, which apparently they don't make any more.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Dechi, meat has zero soluble or insoluble fibre. Neither does dairy. Fruit, vegetables, legumes, beans and nuts do -only plants have fibre.

You can start with the hydrolyzed protein food.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Skylar said:


> Dechi, meat has zero soluble or insoluble fibre. Neither does dairy. Fruit, vegetables, legumes, beans and nuts do -only plants have fibre.
> 
> You can start with the hydrolyzed protein food.


That’s the plan, I’m going this morning when the store opens.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I got Beckie’s new prescription food : Hill’s d/d salmon. We’re starting (another) elimination diet that will end in october, just before my appointment with the dermatologist.

I have a regular vet appointment in 4 weeks. We’ll check her progress and hopefully they do a smear (receptionist had never heard of that...) and maybe get Apoquel or readjust her food.

And the journey continues...


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Hope she soon feels better. I am battling what I think is SIBO with Poppy - I've ordered a supplement that can be used longterm, and am really hoping it helps. Constant tummy upsets etc are no fun for dog or human, especially when they involve traipsing up and down stairs at 2.30am...


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

fjm said:


> Constant tummy upsets etc are no fun for dog or human, especially when they involve traipsing up and down stairs at 2.30am...


Oh no, that’s exhausting for both the mom and the dog. I hope you find something that helps !


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Stool analysis is negative : no parasites. It was to be expected.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Beckie (and Merlin, poor guy has to follow) has been on Hill’s d/d salmon for 5 days. She is still licking her butt and scratching. Her stools are small and firm and (thank god) both dogs have lost their horrid raw food breath. That part, I couldn’t take anymore. They both like the food, mostly the canned food but the kibble also.

Today I’m giving both dogs an oatmeal shampoo bath, in hopes it will relieve the itching a bit. It’s hot otside so I can do it in the backyard and not even get my bathtub dirty !


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I hate to complicate things—and I'm sure there are many different opinions on this!—but when Peggy was getting her goopy eyes and we were searching for new hypoallergenic shampoos, our groomer warned us specifically about any containing oatmeal. She said it's a common allergen.

This did make it very tricky to find a good one.

Happy to hear Beckie's poops are good, and amazed that salmon breath is preferable to raw breath! That must have been pretty bad. Lol. If they're tolerating salmon well, you could also try feeding it as treats. I've seen the dried skins at our pet store.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I hate to complicate things—and I'm sure there are many different opinions on this!—but when Peggy was getting her goopy eyes and we were searching for new hypoallergenic shampoos, our groomer warned us specifically about any containing oatmeal. She said it's a common allergen.


Oh, crap ! I didn’t think of that. I hope I didn’t make it worse... I’ll have to find another shampoo for next time. Thanks.



PeggyTheParti said:


> Happy to hear Beckie's poops are good, and amazed that salmon breath is preferable to raw breath! That must have been pretty bad. Lol. If they're tolerating salmon well, you could also try feeding it as treats. I've seen the dried skins at our pet store.


Ha Ha Ha ! The don’t have salmon breath, just normal doggy breath... not the greatest, but nothing compared to the nauseous breath they had before !  

I still have some raw salmon left. When I see the vet in 3 weeks I’ll ask if I can give her some. Or maybe I’ll just call the store. I don’t know if the protein in the vet food is altered or if it’s left intact. If it’s intact, then I suppose it’s okay to give her some. Dried salmon skin would definitely be great if I could find some.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Update : Beckie has been two weeks on Hill’s d/d salmon. Her butt problems have increased. I’ve had to empty her glands twice in 3 days and she’s still very uncomfortable so I’m going to have a vet tech do it this afternoon (couldn’t get a vet appointment sooner than the one I have).

I believe this food is making her worse, so I will bring it back and change for a different brand. Maybe freeze-dried. I find it very disturbing to see my dog hurting and not being able to help her more. :-(

I watched a video from when I got her three years ago, and she was going for her butt. So it’s been an ongoing problem since she was a puppy. I didn’t remember it started right from the first day or so. Back then she had so many problems coming from the breeder, I probably thought she had flea bites or something.

I want to do a skin scrape from the butt area but I don’t think the vet tech can do it. I’ll ask and try to get her to do it but don’t have much hope.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Poor Beckie, I had hoped this was resolving. (((Hugs))) I look forward to the day when you have figured out the best food for Beckie.

I would avoid dried salmon skin until you have figured out what the problem is. The skin is very fatty, and high fat content in food could cause digestive issues.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I hate to complicate things—and I'm sure there are many different opinions on this!—but when Peggy was getting her goopy eyes and we were searching for new hypoallergenic shampoos, our groomer warned us specifically about any containing oatmeal. She said it's a common allergen.


I’m shocked your groomer specifically warned you about oatmeal. While oatmeal can cause allergies, it’s so uncommon that it’s usually used in elimination diets as part of the safe foods to eat or in the limited ingredient foods used to treat pet allergies. It’s a common ingredient in shampoos for dogs and humans with skin issues, most effective in products that don’t contain irritants like fragrance. As a child I had so many allergies and skin issues that I was only allowed to bath in oatmeal, nothing else, just a handful of old fashioned oatmeal tossed in the bath tub.
Perhaps your groomer had experience with an oatmeal shampoo that also included irritating ingredients and she assumed that oatmeal was the problem because oatmeal was in the name?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Skylar said:


> I’m shocked your groomer specifically warned you about oatmeal. While oatmeal can cause allergies, it’s so uncommon that it’s usually used in elimination diets as part of the safe foods to eat or in the limited ingredient foods used to treat pet allergies. It’s a common ingredient in shampoos for dogs and humans with skin issues, most effective in products that don’t contain irritants like fragrance. As a child I had so many allergies and skin issues that I was only allowed to bath in oatmeal, nothing else, just a handful of old fashioned oatmeal tossed in the bath tub.
> Perhaps your groomer had experience with an oatmeal shampoo that also included irritating ingredients and she assumed that oatmeal was the problem because oatmeal was in the name?


I was shocked, too! I _always_ used gentle oatmeal shampoos on my last girl....but she did itch her whole life. So I figured it was worth taking my groomer's advice and giving something new a try.

And it worked. 

But it was not easy to find! I stocked up, in case it's ever discontinued.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi, I'm so sorry you're not seeing progress despite your efforts.  

I'm still hopeful you'll have a breakthrough. Or you'll find that unicorn veterinarian who takes a real interest in Beckie's plight. 

I know diet is extremely important, but I spent the first 35 years of my life believing if I just found the right food combo, I'd feel better. And it turned out my health issues were entirely unrelated to what I was eating. 

So there are still answers out there for you and Beckie, I'm confident. They just might come from somewhere unexpected.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I was curious about fiber. The topic of fiber in a wolf's diet is interesting. Apparently much of it is fur! Plus things like berries.... and some grasses, seeds, acorns, etc.

"If you can find a source of wild game or whole prey with the fur still on it, feed it to your dog, especially if he eats a lot of bones. " Feed Your Dog Like A Wolf


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

kontiki said:


> I was curious about fiber. The topic of fiber in a wolf's diet is interesting. Apparently much of it is fur! Plus things like berries.... and some grasses, seeds, acorns, etc.
> 
> "If you can find a source of wild game or whole prey with the fur still on it, feed it to your dog, especially if he eats a lot of bones. " Feed Your Dog Like A Wolf


You might be onto something. This is gross, but Peggy's anal gland function temporarily improved when I was giving my husband regular quarantine haircuts..... Possibly because she vacuumed up a few mouthfuls of hair!

There are treats available that are just freeze-dried rabbit ears, fur and all.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Back from the vet. Even though I had emptied her glands twice in 5 days, the vet technician said both Beckie’s glands were full ! She said they’re probably located too far internally for me to empty them properly.

That’s a relief, and hope. Maybe it was just the glands; last time she had a vet empty them was in june, so she might have been overdue, even though I did empty them many times.

So now I’m waiting to see how she responds before deciding if I need to change her food or not. The thing is I’m going away for a few days this week-end, so it needs to be dealt with before. We’ll see.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Fingers crossed!


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## Porkchop (Sep 2, 2019)

Seeing your baby in pain and feeling helpless is so sad. You wish you could take it for them. I hope the food you have isn’t causing the problem.
Did they do a butt scrape? Is that a biopsy of the anal gland?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Porkchop said:


> Did they do a butt scrape? Is that a biopsy of the anal gland?


The technician said she could‘t do it, it had to be the vet. She seemed to think it couldn’t be done, or wouldn’t be useful. I’m about to dump that vet clinic. Sometimes they’re so clueless... From talking to the vet from the other vet clinic that treated Beckie when she went to the ER in june, it seemed like a Simple vaginal/anal skin scrape, not a biopsy. You just get some cells to look into the microscope. I’ve read about on it online too.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Oh dear, that is always so discouraging to discover that your clinics and vets are not up to date on how to do testing, treatments, etc.

Dechi, Today is the first day that I discovered this thread. I am trying to put together some of my thoughts. We have had similar issues. It turned out for us to be a combo of environmental and food, and artificial vitamin issues. Almost all, if not all, kibble has synthetic vitamins, preservatives, etc.
I need to read back through all of these posts and try to remember all of the things we looked into.
It might be either many posts, or a few super long ones. Big sigh. 

Sending healing thought to you and to Becky. It sounds like both of you are rather miserable and frustrated.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

kontiki said:


> Sending healing thought to you and to Becky. It sounds like both of you are rather miserable and frustrated


Oh yeah, we are... Thank you in advance for any tips you can share.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Skylar said:


> I’m shocked your groomer specifically warned you about oatmeal. While oatmeal can cause allergies, it’s so uncommon that it’s usually used in elimination diets as part of the safe foods to eat or in the limited ingredient foods used to treat pet allergies. It’s a common ingredient in shampoos for dogs and humans with skin issues, most effective in products that don’t contain irritants like fragrance.
> 
> Perhaps your groomer had experience with an oatmeal shampoo that also included irritating ingredients and she assumed that oatmeal was the problem because oatmeal was in the name?


Or, could it be that a dog not tolerating oatmeal shampoo is because it was not shampoo made from gluten free oats? I am gluten free, and have to eat gluten free oats. I know it sounds crazy, but if someone, or some animal, is sensitive to wheat or gluten, it is a possiblity just from having the oats processed where wheat or gluten containing ingredients are processed.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Dechi, what color is your poodle with this problem? Mine is white/cream, and apparently their skin can be even more sensitive than other colors. Mine is and has had several problems that made no sense.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

kontiki said:


> Dechi, what color is your poodle with this problem? Mine is white/cream, and apparently their skin can be even more sensitive than other colors. Mine is and has had several problems that made no sense.


Beckie was bought as black but seems to be turning blue.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Update : Beckie was strictly on Hill’s d/d salmon, a single protein food, for 25 days. She got worse, I had her glands emptied by the vet and she got better, then started licking intensely again.

So today I exchanged her remaining portions for the next level food (Hill’s let’s you do that, no questions asked, as long as there is at least 50% of the bag left). We started transitioning to Hill’s z/d, a hydrolyzed food. I got her kibbles and canned, as usual, but they also had compatible treats so I’m very happy about that ! Beckie hasn’t had a single treat in a long time.

When we see the derm vet, she will have been 4-5 weeks on this food so I’m hoping it helps determine the right plan of action. Seasonal allergies should be over as well, so less possibilities to explore.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

You are such a champion for your pups!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Update : we went to the vet. Beckie’s weight is good and she has no fleas (I thought I saw one yesterday). Her left gland was full even though both glands were emptied two weeks ago. This might be linked with her allergies.

The vet suggested not to do a skin scrape, they said it would a was waste of money as there are tons of bacterias in the rectal/vaginal area. We opted to take these steps to help until I see the derm vet in october :

1- do a full blood count, as she hasn’t had one recently and maybe never and it could reveal problems. Also, the derm vet is most likely to want one. I should have the results in a few days.

2- continue doing the elimination diet with Hill’s z/d, even though we’re right in the middle of the seasonal allergies period so I might have to do it longer than usually needed (she said 8 weeks after November, but I think that’s stretching it too far). 

By the way, Beckie loves this food. I’ve never seen her like any kibble so much, and she’s had many very good quality ones to try. Very surprising...

3- Put her on Apoquel for two weeks. They have never had so many dogs with allergies lately and they have a good success rate with this medication. The improvement will be seen within two weeks, if any, and it’s a good way to find out if she has seasonal allergies on top of food intolerance/allergies.

That’s it for now ! I will be doing my first insurance claim ever, let’s hope they pay...


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Dechi, my vet showed me how to empty the glands...they way they do it at the vet by inserting the finger in the anus and behind the gland to empty it completely. Perhaps your vet can show you too? Luckily I’ve never had to do it, but I’m prepared if it should become a problem.

Babykins was on that hydrolyzed food and I did see a big improvement. I hope you and Beckie are successful.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Skylar said:


> Dechi, my vet showed me how to empty the glands...they way they do it at the vet by inserting the finger in the anus and behind the gland to empty it completely. Perhaps your vet can show you too? Luckily I’ve never had to do it, but I’m prepared if it should become a problem.
> 
> Babykins was on that hydrolyzed food and I did see a big improvement. I hope you and Beckie are successful.


I should have asked about the glands but I didn’t think of it. I don’t know if they would have agreed, since they can’t do the exam with the owner because their rooms are not big enough to be six feet apart. Oh well, next time. Until then I do it externally.

I hope the food works, thanks !


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Oh, yes, if you can't social distant at the vet, they can't show you - I had to be up close and personal with both my dog's back and the vet tech showing me. Not a pandemic friendly lesson.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Beckie had her first ever appointment with the dermatologist vet. Due to COVID and internal problems, it took a looooong time. We were there for almost 4 hours. I’m so happy we went though !

The vet said Beckies gland problems are indicative of food allergies. She says there are no reliable tests available for food allergies, that some companies do sell testing but that it’s « BS » and no dermatologist would ever do one or recommend one. There is ongoing research though.

She examined Beckies glands and the left one was full. She emptied it and did a cytology that showed lots of bacterias (normal) and some inflammatory cells in the anal gland fluid. This is also leaning towards food allergies. To treat the possible bacterial infection, she sedated Beckie and injected Osurnia in her left anal sac. This will have to be repeated in two weeks.

We also talked about food and she wasn’t thrilled about Beckie eating Hill’s z/d, since it’s hydrolyzed chicken and Beckie has shown reactions when eating chicken. She says Beckie might be doing better now because her body is not fully recognizing the chicken because it’s hydrolyzed, but there is a chance she might start having problems down the line. Also, she is better but she is not 100% better, as she is still licking her genitals and has a reddish rectum.

So, as per the vet recommendation, I am switching Beckie to Royal canin anallergenic, the most hypoallergenic of all vet foods. It doesn’t come with treats or canned food, as the z/d did. It saddens me that Beckie won’t have anything else to eat than her kibble. We have another appointment with the derm vet in 8 weeks and I am hoping I will be able to add some canned food to her diet and eventually, treats.

That’s it for now. Beckie is still a little affected by the sedation and Merlin is happy to be cuddling after being alone for the afternoon...


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

This sounds like progress you can work with!


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

As I mentioned above, Babykins was on Hills z/d for a couple of months. She certainly improved but it wasn’t until I started to prepare her meals at home that I saw a completely normal bowel movement. I often wondered if they didn’t always completely hydrolyzed the proteins. This contains soy oil and my dog has allergies to legume including soy beans. Perhaps that could explain Becki’s response. 

Your new food has feathers as a source of protein.....doesn’t that perhaps refer to poultry such as chicken?

I do hope you figure out what Beckie needs.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Skylar said:


> As I mentioned above, Babykins was on Hills z/d for a couple of months. She certainly improved but it wasn’t until I started to prepare her meals at home that I saw a completely normal bowel movement. I often wondered if they didn’t always completely hydrolyzed the proteins. This contains soy oil and my dog has allergies to legume including soy beans. Perhaps that could explain Becki’s response.
> 
> Your new food has feathers as a source of protein.....doesn’t that perhaps refer to poultry such as chicken?
> 
> I do hope you figure out what Beckie needs.


The vet mentioned cooking from home with horse meat and sweet potatoes but with my health problems I can’t even cook for myself so cooking for the dogs is not an option.

She says this food is the one she trusts the most and the feathers are broken into such tiny molecules that they are well tolerated. Maybe it won’t work but I don’t have that many choices left. Because of the pandemic, many of the foods are back order (even if they weren’t this food would be the vet’s first choice). She mentioned the production for Royal canin anallergenic will stop for three weeks. I bought enough for 8 weeks and I’m crossing my fingers I can still find it if it works and I need to buy more.

This is (one more) big change for us and I’m trying to stay positive.


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## Porkchop (Sep 2, 2019)

Oh, more hope for Beckie! Yay! Fingers crossed the injections she’s getting and the different food get her 100% better or dang close. I know you’re sad she’ll only get to eat kibble. But try to remember how awesome it will be if that means her tummy and anal gland troubles go away! You both got this. You’ve been through a lot. You’re getting closer.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I will be watching to see if this works. Hope so!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Day 2 of transitioning to kibble only Royal canin allergenic. Poor Beckie is miserable. She hasn’t eaten as much as usual, maybe 50%. She’s waiting for the canned food I usually give her, sometimes at dinner and always for lunch.

I feel bad for making her go through this but I know it’s the only way. But it’s hard. Really hard, for us both.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Poor Beckie! It's so sad sometimes that we can't explain why we do these cruel things (like no canned food) to them, but I really hope it works for her.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

How did I miss this thread? So sorry for Beckie’s distress, been there with two long ago Scottie’s. Dundee suffered in our terrarium climate, where every allergen is exacerbated. His vet was so rote that steroid shots were his answer. No mention of diet, bathing, testing. The second one with a new vet, was referred to a vet dermatologist and with a program of diet, recommended shampoo and anti allergen shots, lived a long and mostly itch free. What exactly was Charlie allergic to? Everything but cigarette smoke! The initial consult and testing was expensive but so worth it! You can do Apoquel or benedryl, try this or that diet, but don’t you really want to know what the root cause(s) might be? See a vet dermatologist and get the answers


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Update. Beckie went for her second shot of Osurnia in her anal sacs. They also emptied her glands, the left one being more full and the right one practically empty. They said they saw an improvement in the texture and quantity, but as far as I’m concerned, I see no change.

The last week has been frustrating to say the least. I think Beckie is getting a little depressed from eating the same food over and over again, so she has been eating stuff she shouldn’t have. She’s eaten disgustingly soft and smelly dog poop, bread that the stupid squirrels keep dropping on my lawn, and twice she licked Merlin’s bowl after he was done (and probably got 1-2 kibbles). I think she also ate at least one earth worms. The bowl epidoses are entirely my fault. The others were very hard to prevent.

Most probably because of this, she looked like she was feeling down yesterday. She was more quiet, ate a little less and wasn’t as joyful as she usually is. Of course she is licking her butt more as well.

Her next follow-up is in 5 weeks, and it is meant to be a discussion after her 8 weeks of strict diet. Which isn’t so strict now, so I’m wondering if I should postpone her appointment. I think I’ll call them to ask. Oh, the joy of dealing with food allergies...


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I wonder if she's craving nutrients she's not getting from that highly processed hypoallergenic food...

Poor Beckie.  And you. Was hoping this allergist would be the answer. I can't believe they couldn't recommend a whole food or two to go along with the kibble they prescribed. Something more like a human elimination diet.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Poor Beckie.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I wonder if she's craving nutrients she's not getting from that highly processed hypoallergenic food...


It is possible. I can’t wait to get her off that stuff. I mean it’s made with feathers. Who eats feathers ? 




Skylar said:


> Poor Beckie.


I feel for her too. This is very hard on all of us. At least I’m making her baked treats out of it, so she has something else once in a while, even though it’s the same thing mixed with water...


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Poor Beckie and poor you. I know how difficult it can be - Poppy is on a strict diet which fortunately she loves, but the steroids she needs mean she is constantly ravenous. She has had a cornichon, half a tomato, bread left scattered around lawns and paths, sundry things I never managed to identify, and yesterday slipped into a neighbour's house and came out with her mouth full. I took a piece of kibble the size of a large marble away from her and as I turned to put it in the bin realised she had two more! I wish we had some way of explaining to them that the restrictions are for their own good...


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

fjm said:


> I wish we had some way of explaining to them that the restrictions are for their own good...


So do I ! I explain it to her often, with words, but I doubt she understands any of it... :-(


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Quite-
Me: "Poppy, why am I spending hours every week cooking and a small fortune on prescription foods and supplements to try and keep you healthy and comfortable just for you to go and raid every bin and bird table in the neighbourhood the instant my back is turned, and end up with a tummy ache?"
Poppy: "But it's _food_! And I'm _hungry_! And I'm a _dog_!"

These days she is either on a leash or under my eye, and she _still_ manages to slip off in the split second I look away. Fortunately most people we meet regularly out walking now know not to give her anything, but I narrowly prevented her and Sophy blagging half a sausage roll this evening...


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Update : Beckie went on her third visit with the dermatologist vet. She is still on Royal canin anallergenic and has been having cytopoint injections every 4 weeks for the past two months (twice so far). The derm vet said she was doing very well and had almost no sign of redness on her genitals, which is a sign she isn’t licking or very little.

I have been keeping a journal and her licking/scratching/biting episodes have gone down about 70%. So now we are entering phase 2, ie : putting her back on her old food (Purina pro plan sensitive skin and stomach) to see if she will react. I am starting the transition today for 4-7 days. Then, in 2 weeks, I can introduce 1 treat of my choice. If no reaction, I can introduce another one in two weeks and so forth. I was given the ok to give her small pieces of apple at my last visit and she has been enjoying that for a few weeks.

If she has a reaction to her old food, I need to put her back on R/C anallergenic until I can see the dermatologist again (her next appointment is in 2 months but I can try to make it sooner). If that’s the case, that would mean she also has food intolerances, not just environmental allergies. We would then try d/d venison. The vet would like me to cook horse meat for her, but due to my health not being great, I don’t even cook for myself so that’s not a viable option, hence the venison food.

While changing her food, I need to continue with her cytopoint injections every 4 weeks. A basic rule is to never change 2 conditions at once or you will never what works, or not. I will also keep getting her glands emptied as needed. She can now go 1 month between emptying them, whereas before it was more every 2-3 weeks, sometimes less.

With summer coming, it will be important to determine if her condition deteriorates or not.

This sure is a long process but I feel we are slowly getting somewhere. Fingers crossed for no reaction to the change of food !


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Good to hear that things are better, and that you have a plan to follow. And to know Becky is getting apple, with more treats to come!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I’ve done the transition from R/C anallergenic to Purina Pro plan. It didn’t take a day and Beckie started to lick more obsessively and for longer periods of time, although she was not (yet) doing it more frequently. I wasn’t even finished transitioning, she was maybe 60% on the Pro plan food.

I wrote to the derm vet and the tech called me today. I wanted to make sure I would do the right thing and I am. I put Beckie back on R/C anallergenic so she would become stable again at her 2/10 allergy level (at her worst she was about 6/10 or 7/10). I did see an improvement straight away as she wasn’t on Pro Plan for too long.

This test was conclusive and now I know for sure she has allergies to food. I don’t know to which ingredient but there aren’t any reliable tests for that and honestly, I don’t care at this point. I just want to be done and Beckie to have a food she does well on. She does well on R/C anallergenic, but she has very bad breath and her tooth have gone to having a little tartar to looking discusting and yellow in the back of her mouth in just a few months. I also hate having to feed my dog feathers (this food is made of chicken feathers...). I had been waiting for Beckie’s dental appointment and just got a call she will be done in a few weeks. That’s a relief !

So, there are only two choices left that we have discussed with the derm vet : either I cook horse meat and potatoes for her or I try Hill’s d/s venison and potatoes. I honestly don’t want to feed horse to my dog and can’t cook for myself for health reasons so cooking for her is not really an option I am favoring. I have all my hopes in this Venison food.

Tomorrow I am going to go buy it and slowly start transitioning. Hoping this go well but I am preparing to be disappointed.

Her next appointment for her Cytopoint injection is at the end of the month. I have to try to stabilize her on a food she tolerates before spring, as environmental allergies will start and we won’t know if she is reacting to food or external causes. I just realized this as I was typing... yikes !


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

The nightmare continues. I’m sorry. 

Did you write out a list of the ingredients that are in the Pro Plan but not in the RC? That would at least give you a starting point for identifying a trigger (or triggers).

Either way, fingers crossed the venison is loved by Beckie and tolerated well.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> The nightmare continues. I’m sorry.
> 
> Did you write out a list of the ingredients that are in the Pro Plan but not in the RC? That would at least give you a starting point for identifying a trigger (or triggers).
> 
> Either way, fingers crossed the venison is loved by Beckie and tolerated well.


No, I think it’s more complex than just ingredients as there are so many things to consider, and even if there is cross contamination when making the food.

I am keeping my fingers crossed for the Hill’s d/d to work. I should have a good idea rapidly; I’ll keep you posted.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

The only thing my Spoo has done super well on is 100% raw. 
During COVID I have tried to use high quality kibble Canidae PURE Real Salmon and Sweet Potato Recipe (I had tried over 10 other 5 star kibbles first), as well as super expensive Dr Marty Premium Freeze Dried Raw, Nature's Blend, for a little over half of his meals. The other almost half of his meals still being raw, with occasionally some cooked meat. He seemed to be doing ok for several months, but recently he has been going downhill. His teeth are developing brown stuff, his poos are gooshy, he smells , has less energy, sometimes has diarrhea, and this last week I was totally shocked when he actually ate one of his poos from a previous day of being fed raw organic liver!!!! 

He is 11 years old, and has never, ever eaten a poo, his own or anyone elses. Now I have this super expensive dog food, and am feeling really guilty that I haven't made more of an effort during the pandemic to keep up with his raw diet. It has been much harder as I am 74 and have had pneumonia 3 times so am avoiding stores and indoor shopping, and my farmer suppliers haven't had the farmers market open to sell at. Huge guilty tired sigh.....


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

kontiki said:


> The only thing my Spoo has done super well on is 100% raw.


I actually started with raw last summer, before going to the dermatologist. I have a journal of Beckie’s symptoms and she was 3 times worse when eating raw. I tried for about three months, feeding exclusively raw. No more for us !



kontiki said:


> It has been much harder as I am 74 and have had pneumonia 3 times so am avoiding stores and indoor shopping, and my farmer suppliers haven't had the farmers market open to sell at. Huge guilty tired sigh....


 That’s too bad, I hope you’re feeling better now !


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Interesting Dechi. I would be interested to know what raw meats you tried and what the problems were.

The only problems I have had with raw were if getting meat which has what they call 'solution' in it, which makes my dog really sick. Especially chicken and pork. (Frozen chicken frequently has it added) In any store I watch for this carefully. Walmart has a lot of it, but other stores also. Another time I had problems was if not feeding the proper balances of meat/bone/organs. Also, I can only feed him organs from local organic farmers that I know exactly how they feed their animals and process the meat. CAFO (feedlot) beef liver and other organs make him ill ! He will literally back away from them. I was in Colorado two years ago, and even liver marked 'organic' from the health food stores he couldn't eat. He also will not eat turkey from grocery stores. Oh, I also do not buy him ground meat, like ground beef or chicken. Ground meat has more pathogens than whole bone in meat. So I have learned how to tell quality meat for him, and get as much as possible straight from farmers I know or hunters. I guess it is so automatic by now that I forget about those problems we once had


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

kontiki said:


> Interesting Dechi. I would be interested to know what raw meats you tried and what the problems were.


If you start reading on page 1 on this thread, I wrote all about it. When dogs have allergies/intolerances to food most of the time it’s to animal protein. That’s the case with Beckie. She will have severe itching which causes her to lick, her genitals become inflamed, her glands become impacted and so forth.

The meat I bought was very expensive. Nothing cheap. Raw is not a universal solution unfortunately. Allergies are very complex.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Dechi said:


> Allergies are very complex.


Isn't that the truth! For people and animals!


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I skipped to the last page, because my hard won experience is to consult a veterinary specialist, when it’s evident that there’s a problem. The money and time spent on this food, that shampoo, this wobbly saliva mail test are better spent on a veterinary dermatologist. They get to the root cause quickly, know all the best brands and products. I had a Scottish Terrier, allergic to everything but cigarette smoke(!!!) who thrived with the guidance we got. I don’t want to guess.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Mfmst said:


> I skipped to the last page, because my hard won experience is to consult a veterinary specialist, when it’s evident that there’s a problem. The money and time spent on this food, that shampoo, this wobbly saliva mail test are better spent on a veterinary dermatologist. They get to the root cause quickly, know all the best brands and products. I had a Scottish Terrier, allergic to everything but cigarette smoke(!!!) who thrived with the guidance we got. I don’t want to guess.


She’s working with a dermatologist, but it doesn’t seem like they’ve been able to zero in on the trigger(s).


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Mfmst said:


> The money and time spent on this food, that shampoo, this wobbly saliva mail test are better spent on a veterinary dermatologist.


I agree, which is why we’ve been working under the guidance of a dermatologist for 5-6 months now.



PeggyTheParti said:


> She’s working with a dermatologist, but it doesn’t seem like they’ve been able to zero in on the trigger(s).


True. We will never know what ingredients trigger her food intolerances. Soon we’ll be heading into allergy seasons and I guess we’ll have to eliminate all triggers one by one. Hopefully she doesn’t react to any and she only has food intolerances.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I shouldn’t have skipped the pages of progress, sorry Dechi. Never know when the Texas Grid is going to cut off... With five plus months, have the expert come up with a plan? We were on the path to maintenance in two visits,


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Mfmst said:


> I shouldn’t have skipped the pages of progress, sorry Dechi. Never know when the Texas Grid is going to cut off... With five plus months, have the expert come up with a plan? We were on the path to maintenance in two visits,


That’s okay, it's a very long post ! The plan was stabilizing her on hydrolyzed food, which we did. Then we re-introduced her old food and watched if symptoms re-appeared. Which they did so we now know for sure she is intolerant to regular dog food.

Next is to find a maintenance food for her. We’re trying a single protein, venison. If that works she will stay on it. She’s still on Cytopoint but when she’s stable on the food, we will trying stopping it and if she remains stable, she will be off it. If not, then she’ll stay on it for years, maybe life.

Second part of the project : testing environmental allergies with the summer coming and seeing if they have an impact on her symptoms.

It’s all a game of exclusion. One thing at a time. Patience is required, lol !


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I just saw this on Instagram and thought of you and Beckie:



































__
http://instagr.am/p/CKPTdlQD7ug/


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

@PeggyTheParti thanks, I will ask about intra-dermal testing if Beckie’s symptoms increase with the allergy season.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Sigh. The d/d Venison and potato is making Beckie react. Same as with her old food, it took 4 days and she started licking again. The only food she is okay with is the Hydrolyzed R/C anallergenic that makes her have stinky breath and disgusting teeth and that I hate. 

I’ll put her back on it tomorrow and call the vet and hopefully talk to someone from the dermatology department. I think we’re pretty much out of options. There was another food she tolerated, z/d hypoallergenic but it’s made of hydrolyzed chicken liver and the dermatologist says she doesn’t like it because sometimes dogs start having a reaction many months, even years later. 

I know she wanted me to cook horse meat and potatoes but I’m wondering why she would tolerate that when she wouldn’t tolerate any raw meat I tried last summer ? I’m starting to accept I might have to cook for her. Or maybe I’ll just get help with the cooking.

I also want to look vegan food, but I’m not convinced that would work. I’m a little discouraged I have to say. I feel like we were better off before we started all this. At least Beckie had many foods she ate. Now she’s limited to one food only, and a bit of apples and bananas. Poor dog. And Merlin is affected also, because he has to eat the same as her. She’s so bossy it would be impossible to manage if he was fed different foods and treats.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Oh no! I was so hoping the venison and potato would work for her. Having to cook special food for our dogs is a pain, but we so love them! 
I wonder if you find something that you do cook works well, if you could then do large batches and freeze individual meals?
I finally had to buy a small freezer.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

kontiki said:


> Oh no! I was so hoping the venison and potato would work for her. Having to cook special food for our dogs is a pain, but we so love them!
> I wonder if you find something that you do cook works well, if you could then do large batches and freeze individual meals?
> I finally had to buy a small freezer.


I will have difficulty cooking because of my health. It takes a lot of energy I don’t have and cutting vegetables, especially hard ones like potatoes, hurts my hands. I might ask the lady who helps me with cleaning the house to do a big batch. My freezer is very small though. It’s a bottom freezer on my fridge.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

What also worked well for the Scottie’s was a weekly bath of the veterinary dermatologist ‘s shampoo and a leave in conditioner. They were on a lamb and rice kibble, back in the day. We did supplemental paw washes, with the vet recommended shampoo. They had great lives, lived long and large without that soundtrack of licking and itching.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I had to ask the lady that the Senior Center sent to help me with house work to do cooking! Maybe it is worth it to hire someone? Using a blender or food processor or something for the vegetables? I am tired just thinking about it.... I can't even do a good job cooking for myself.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I have some physical challenges of my own, @Dechi. I don’t know the particulars of your situation, but I understand how hard it can be just to take basic care of yourself. The InstantPot has been a _huge_ help in the kitchen. I imagine it would be similarly helpful with dog food if you end up having to go the homemade route.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> The InstantPot has been a _huge_ help in the kitchen. I imagine it would be similarly helpful with dog food if you end up having to go the homemade route.


I do have an Instant pot. I hadn’t thought about it. If only they had cut-up potatoes at the store...


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

You could definitely throw small whole potatoes in there. No cutting necessary. If you increase the time, you could even cook larger potatoes to mashing consistency. Either way, I think you’d want to pierce them first. At least with larger ones it would be fewer pokes.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

This blog post says you don’t even have to poke the small ones:









Instant Pot Boiled Potatoes (Russet, Gold, Red, Baby) | Spice Cravings


Easy Instant Pot Boiled Potatoes is a simple technique that will produce fork-tender russet, gold, red or baby potatoes every time!




spicecravings.com





And I never bother with a trivet when I’m cooking mashed potatoes in the InstantPot. I just load it up with potatoes and enough water to cover, and then I drain at the end with a colander.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Any chance you could use rice or tapioca instead of potatoes? I know I once read there were no known allergic reactionss to tapioca (it's pure starch, no nutrition to it). Tapioca pearls cook well in an instant pot. 

I have seen riced potatoes in the frozen section. I wonder about frozen french fries as well. Some are low in added ingredients.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> You could definitely throw small whole potatoes in there. No cutting necessary. If you increase the time, you could even cook larger potatoes to mashing consistency. Either way, I think you’d want to pierce them first. At least with larger ones it would be fewer pokes.


Oh, and I could even microwave them whole and just cut to desired sized. We’re progressing... 

The clinic hasn’t called me back yet. I’m still hoping she will have another all-ready food alternative to suggest.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Any chance you could use rice or tapioca instead of potatoes? I know I once read there were no known allergic reactionss to tapioca (it's pure starch, no nutrition to it). Tapioca pearls cook well in an instant pot.


I don’t know, I will ask. Thank you !


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I was going to suggest microwaving and then chopping - or use a stick blender. If the time comes that she is allowed a wider range of veg I often use frozen mixed vegetables, which are already the perfect size. And if there are a few sweetcorn kernels they make the poos much easier to spot amongst fallen leaves!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

fjm said:


> I was going to suggest microwaving and then chopping - or use a stick blender.


I had to look up stick bender, I had no idea what it was. That could work, depending on whether I’m doing a mash or chop.

The vet hasn’t called me but I called the food store adjacent to the clinic and asked about veggie hypo foods. There were three choices. The first one has chicken fat (chicken is a big no no). The second one has hydrolyzed chicken liver (the dermatologist says often dogs don’t react initially to hydrolyzed chicken but months and even years later, they start having problems). The third one has no chicken and no meat protein of any kind. Just veggies and supplements. I’ve decided to try it and will buy it tomorrow. Beckie has reacted to every single meat protein she’s tried. No exception. So I think that's our next step.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

PeggyTheParti said:


> You could definitely throw small whole potatoes in there. No cutting necessary. If you increase the time, you could even cook larger potatoes to mashing consistency. Either way, I think you’d want to pierce them first. At least with larger ones it would be fewer pokes.


Dogs don't need potatoes....


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

If the recipe requires potatoes, instead of rice, etc, there are precooked canned potatoes. Or hash browns frozen. Make SURE the frozen hash browns do not have chemicals and additives, only 100% potatoes!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

kontiki said:


> Dogs don't need potatoes....


If I remember correctly, the homemade recipe the dermatologist wants me to cook is horse meat and potatoes. Honestly it’s not something I want to feed and I’m trying not to...


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

kontiki said:


> Dogs don't need potatoes....


I wasn’t suggesting dogs need potatoes. Just brainstorming ideas to help @Dechi make the recipe prescribed by Beckie’s dermatologist.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I microwave the potatoes that I use in Babykins homemade food. Instantpot or baking in the oven also work to easily cook a batch of potatoes that are then soft enough to cut up or add to a blender - however you want to make her food. There may be other starches your vet will allow instead of potatoes that will make it easier to prepare.

I don't know if you can find pre-ccoked horsemeat - I use Costco pre-cooked Turkey (I know Beckie can't have turkey) - I used to cook chicken for my tpoo years ago and it's so much easier using pre-cooked meat.

For my tpoo who I had to cook a special diet for her pancreatitis before vets has prescription diets - I used canned mixed veggies (small cubes of potatoes, carrots and peas). I learned quickly to buy the canned without salt which was harder to find.

I use a blender to mix Babykin's food - each batch in the blender goes into a large zip lock bag for the freezer. After it defrosts, I split it into 4 servings for 2 days of food. I will say it's a lot of work using a blender and having to clean it up afterwords - sometimes I think the clean up is worse that making the food. However I let the blender do most of the chopping - I rough chop the cooked meat into big chunks, maybe 1.5" deep and wide and 3" long and blend that down to small shreds before adding other ingredients. If I had to chop her food into bite size pieces by hand I don't think I would last very long. I make 8 bags each session for a total of 16 days food.

If you look at the process maybe there are steps you can have someone come in to help. If someone cooked all the horse meat and portioned it out for you. It's easy to have canned unsalted potatoes delivered and stored in your house... think through the steps and see what you can do to make it easy.

Also speak to your vet about what to do about calcium and anything else missing in the diet if you're only feeding muscle meat and carbohydrates.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Can you buy ground horse meat? Small whole potatoes in a slow cooker with ground meat and water, mashed together with a blender when cooked would mean no chopping needed.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

fjm said:


> Can you buy ground horse meat? Small whole potatoes in a slow cooker with ground meat and water, mashed together with a blender when cooked would mean no chopping needed.


The more I think about it, the less I want to go that route. Beckie has not tolerated one single meat protein since I started this journey last summer. Why would horse meat be different ? Also, and that’s a personal opinion, I don’t want to encourage horse slaughtering for human consumption. I think there are enough animals being killed as it is.

Today I bought Purina H/A, a hydrolyzed vegetarian food with no meat or meat flavor or any kind. If she does well on it, I’ll keep her on it for a while. And then I’ll look for a healthier food, as I’m not crazy about the ingredients. The vet tech who answered my email said they preferred this food over the other vegan choices there was.

So we will see. I started the transition today. Beckie likes it. I’m lucky that she likes to eat and will try anything. She wasn’t crazy about the Hill’s d/d Venison though. I’m happy she likes this one better. 
It’s king of crunchy and looks appetizing. I might try it myself...


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I also would struggle with the horse meat. I feel similarly about lamb. Fingers crossed this new food makes her feel as good as it seems to taste...


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

I also wonder why horse and not goat? Goat is easier to find.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

For Want of Poodle said:


> I also wonder why horse and not goat? Goat is easier to find.


I’ve never seen goat anywhere. Or horse. I wouldn't feel good about feeding goat either. Or any non-typical meat.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Ah - I often see goat in the international section, near the halal food. Not in my small town, but when I grocery shop in the city. I have seen horse ONCE in a specialty shop. They also had frog legs. Canada produces a fair amount of horse meat but it's mostly exported 
And I think I agree with your logic for the vegetarian food. I used to know one dog who could only eat vegetarian food. Poor Beckie has had enough trials of protein for a while I suspect.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

That Purina H/A, a hydrolyzed vegetarian food sounds like a great plan. I hope it works out.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Ah - I often see goat in the international section, near the halal food


The supermarkets in my town have pretty basic stuff. I haven’t been there in almost 1 year though. I get my groceries delivered. I used to do it occasionally before the pandemic but now I always do it.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Have you tried finding a hunter? Venison is totally natural, without having eaten feedlot feed, etc.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

If the vegetarian food works for her and she likes it that would seem an excellent solution. And if you pin the allergies down to animal protein it leaves a wide field for treats etc - both home made and boutique commercial.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

kontiki said:


> Have you tried finding a hunter? Venison is totally natural, without having eaten feedlot feed, etc.


I’m not a big fan of hunting...


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Beckie has been on Purina H/A for 7 days, including 3-4 days of transition. She is not doing well. She was licking at her paws a lot but I thought it was due to them being shaved for her dental cleaning. Today she has been licking her paws constantly, scratching sometimes and since this morning, licking the air frequently and for long periods. This is a sign of nausea. She also had a bit of reflux tonight. I wanted to induce vomiting with peroxyde but the vet clinic advised against it since it can cause aspiration in the lungs.

I feel so bad for her. She’s uncomfortable, unable to rest and sleep. She has the most pitiful eyes. I’m trying to make it better for her but it’s not working. If she’s not better tomorrow I’ll bring her to the ER. Or tonight if I have to.

And I'll put her back on the Royal canin anallergenic, which she was doing well on. I really hate it but her body needs a rest. And I need to stop worrying. This is sooooo hard. Sigh.

I’ll call the derm vet (again). I left a message already and emailed but it’s always the technician who writes back or calls. I’ll be a little more demanding this time. I want to talk to the vet. Not the tech.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Hoping/praying she feels better soon ! I'd insist on the vet too!


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Dechi said:


> I’m not a big fan of hunting...


No, I am not a hunting fan either, for sure. 
However the deer, elk, etc are not being fed the feed lot food that had additives and chemicals, nor would your dog then be eating the highly over processed and chemicalized 'dog food'. The hunted meat from wild animals is basically organic. And far less costly than trying to buy or find 'certified organic' meat to feed your dog that does not have preservatives and chemicals in it. My poodle comes first.
But I can certainly understand the aversion to hunting. Big sigh.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I’m proud of you for advocating for her, @Dechi. This is all so hard. Are you considering trying another dermatologist?


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm so sorry that you and Beckie are still going thru this. It's confounding that animal protein sources seem to be an issue but so is a vegetarian food! I'm sure you've asked yourself just what could possibly be left?

I got curious and looked up "fresh homemade dog food delivered" which I'm sure you have too. It seemed a bit hopeful until I saw nothing but animal protein sources, which you've tried. Still, and just in case, here's a link to some "tested by real dogs" fresh cooked and home delivered meals. At least the ingredient lists are shorter (wry smile) but pricing and availability in Canada may make this thought moot. 








The 11 Best Subscription and Fresh Dog Food Brands: Tested by Real Dogs


Fresh dog food: Is it right for you and your dog? We put some hungry (canine) volunteers to work to the test to try some popular brands.




www.rover.com


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Are you considering trying another dermatologist?


I haven’t because I think she’s the only one in the province. She had to go to the USA to get her degree as there are no universities that delivers this education here. Also, I feel like it’s my fault if it’s not working, not hers. Her plan was to have me cook for Beckie (horse meat) and I didn’t want to go that route because of my health problems.

But now I’m getting desperate so I want to talk to her. And I want her to explain to me why would horse meat work when multiple excellent quality raw meat did not. And then I guess I’l try it. I’m just so tired, and discouraged.




Rose n Poos said:


> I got curious and looked up "fresh homemade dog food delivered" which I'm sure you have too.


I haven’t as I honestly didn’t have a clue there was such a thing. I doubt it’s available in Canada or in my province but I’ll look it up.



Rose n Poos said:


> I'm sure you've asked yourself just what could possibly be left?


Yes, I have. And honestly I feel curling in a little ball in a closet and crying. I‘ve been keeping a journal of all her symptoms for 10 months now but how is that possible ?


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

If most animal proteins have been ruled out and a non-animal protein source gave similar results, are there any other ingredients in common? Could there be any possibility that it's not the protein source?

I can't help but think of Sherlock Holmes
“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.” - Sherlock Homes” 

― Arthur Conan Doyle

I can imagine your feelings and just feel sure you'll get this figured out.

(I'm sorry but can't remember all the proteins you've tried. Can she eat eggs without problems, or pork?)

(I added Canada to the search query and got a couple of hits using google)


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

The strange thing is that even the animal protein can be effected by what they eat! I know because even eggs are effected. If the chickens have eaten non organic chicken feed, or even grains, it effects their eggs. 

I absolutely know for sure that is true for beef and pork too. My spoo can't eat non 100% grass fed liver without becoming ill.

It is so tricky. 
I used to have a friend who was going to feed her dog a vegetarian diet. I have not heard from her for a long time, but just wrote to see if she has any suggestions. I will let you know if she does


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I've reread the thread and want to try to get a synopsis of Beckie's diagnosed or suspected, conditions or reactions, and what those are being attributed to.

She's been bum fascinated since very young - attributed to allergies/food intolerance?
Licking paws/air - attributed to nausea (can also be allergies?)
Other licking/biting/scratching - attributed to allergies/food intolerance?
Anal glands need frequent expressing - attributed to allergies//food intolerance? How does this cause glands to fill? Is there a chance the glands filling is coincidental to the allergies?
Gastric reflux - attributed to food allergies/food intolerance?
Gastritis - attributed to food allergies/food intolerance?
Diarrhea,vomiting, pain after eating - attributed to food allergies/food intolerance
Cholestasis - attributed to ?? chronic? resolved?
Salivary glands swollen - attributed to ??

I know I'm missing some. I'm just trying to connect dots here and see if something, anything comes to mind.

What has she done best on and for how long? Worst on?

Have you considered going to one of the veterinary universities? CVMA | Veterinary Colleges

I know that in the US many will see patients in clinics. One thing is that you'd get the latest in health information.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Rose n Poos said:


> If most animal proteins have been ruled out and a non-animal protein source gave similar results, are there any other ingredients in common? Could there be any possibility that it's not the protein source?


In fact the reaction from the last food (vegan), made with hydrolyzed soy protein, has been by far the worst. I would say reactions from meat ranged from 3 to 5 (on a scale of 1 to 10) and the reaction from this food was a 6 or 7.

I am starting to think that the problem might not be the meat protein. I am hoping the dermatologist will have an « Oh, now I know ! » kind of moment when I tell her about Beckie’s latest reaction.



Rose n Poos said:


> I can't help but think of Sherlock Holmes
> “Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.” - Sherlock Homes”
> 
> ― Arthur Conan Doyle


I love this quote, I will remember it !



Rose n Poos said:


> (I'm sorry but can't remember all the proteins you've tried. Can she eat eggs without problems, or pork?)


Both turkey and chicken have been ruled out. Chicken is the most common allergen in dogs. I assume eggs have the same proteins as their parents.



Rose n Poos said:


> I've reread the thread and want to try to get a synopsis of Beckie's diagnosed or suspected, conditions or reactions, and what those are being attributed to.
> 
> She's been bum fascinated since very young - attributed to allergies/food intolerance? YES
> Licking paws/air - attributed to nausea (can also be allergies?) THAT’S MY TAKE ON IT, FROM EXPERIENCE
> ...


You are such a generous person and I want to thank you so much for doing this ! I will copy it in Beckie’s journal. My answers above in CAPITAL LETTERS.



Rose n Poos said:


> What has she done best on and for how long? Worst on?


She’s been the best on Royal canin hypoallergenic (the only one that works and that I dislike and was trying to stop but now she’s back on it). She has been by far the worst on the Purina H/A vegan food with hydrolyzed soya protein and cornstarch (how terrible) as the main ingredient (that we just started and stopped).



Rose n Poos said:


> Have you considered going to one of the veterinary universities? CVMA | Veterinary Colleges


I haven’t but I will research it. As I said, dermatologists are a rare thing in Canada and they have to go to the States to get their training. I doubt there will be many choices. I do want to continue with this vet for a while but she needs to step up and call back when I need her. It’s a high volume clinic she works at. They’re the only 24/7 emergency clinic around. But that’s not an excuse.

Update on Beckie this morning : she is in good spirits and ate a reasonable amount of R/C anallergenic for breakfast in her treat ball, the way she likes. She is not licking the air anymore.

I’ve gotten rid of the Purina H/A, cleaned the bowls and the floors. I was going to go get new food but I think it’s best if I let her tummy rest from testing for a while and I want to talk to the dermatologist before so we can decide what the next step is.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Here are my derm vet’s credentials. I’ve checked other derm vets and their credentials are similar and they’re from even bigger veterinary centers. I can’t even figure out how to call them...

« Graduated in 1989 from the Faculty of Veterinary Medicine of the University of XXX, Dr X worked as a clinical instructor in dermatology in the internal medicine department of the University of XXX for four years before continuing her studies with the Ph.D. degree in feline immunology from the University of XXX, Scotland.

Dr. X then completed a dermatology residency at the University of Davis and worked as a clinical instructor the year after her residency. Dr X graduated from the American College of Veterinary Dermatology in 2004. She has worked at the University of Minnesota as an Assistant Professor of Dermatology and most recently as a Dermatologist with New York City Veterinary Specialists (BluePearl Veterinary Partners).

Over the years, she has developed a particular interest in feline dermatology. She has been working at the XXX Veterinary Center since August 2011. »


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

@Dechi, is there still a possibility these symptoms are originating from something other than an allergy?









Other Conditions That Can Cause Your Dog's Itching - Whole Dog Journal


whole dog journal




www.whole-dog-journal.com


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## Ava. (Oct 21, 2020)

Has vegan dog food been discussed?

it seems like only animal protein is bothering her, but i may be wrong.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Ava. said:


> Has vegan dog food been discussed?
> 
> it seems like only animal protein is bothering her, but i may be wrong.


So far she’s reacted most intensely to the vegan food:



Dechi said:


> In fact the reaction from the last food (vegan), made with hydrolyzed soy protein, has been by far the worst. I would say reactions from meat ranged from 3 to 5 (on a scale of 1 to 10) and the reaction from this food was a 6 or 7.
> 
> I am starting to think that the problem might not be the meat protein. I am hoping the dermatologist will have an « Oh, now I know ! » kind of moment when I tell her about Beckie’s latest reaction.


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## Ava. (Oct 21, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> So far she’s reacted most intensely to the vegan food:


oh, my bad.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> @Dechi, is there still a possibility these symptoms are originating from something other than an allergy?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hum, we’ve done so much testing, I would think it has been ruled out. Today she’s been on Royal canin anallergenic and she was such in good spirit, it was a joy to see ! No scratching, no licking and her appetite came back. To me it’s a proof that the food is the problem.

When she was a baby, she would cry after eating because her tummy was hurting. That’s how I knew she had problems with certain foods. At the time I didn’t know yet how bad it was...

I called the vet clinic who did the dental and asked if they thought her teeth had gotten worse from eating the R/C anallergenic (they had done an assessment in october or november, to give me an estimate). They will call me back but if the teeth weren’t worse after three months on that food, I’m considering leaving her on it. At least for a while.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Poor girl. I can relate to that sore tummy after eating.  At this point I would definitely write out the ingredients in the food that’s affected her the worst. Then cross out each one on that list that’s also in the foods she’s tolerated well. There may be a very sneaky culprit left over when you’re done.

One thing that really jumps out at me in the Purina vegan/hyopallergenic is the amount of corn. But it could even be one of the ingredients way at the end of the list. I think about humans with celiac disease, and how even trace amounts of gluten wreak havoc on their bodies.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

(Don’t feel like you have to reply every time I think aloud here. Just throwing out everything that pops into my head, just in case. But I don’t want it to add stress to an already stressful situation.)


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> One thing that really jumps out at me in the Purina vegan/hyopallergenic is the amount of corn.


Yeah, I know, I wasn’t too thrilled about that. I wouldn’t be surprised if corn was the culprit as I don’t think she’s had any in the past year except with that food.



PeggyTheParti said:


> Then cross out each one on that list that’s also in the foods she’s tolerated well.


I’ve thought about doing that but I wonder if it’s useful since the way the ingredient is used might make a difference. But I should try comparing at least the 3-4 last bags of food, in case there is a tendency.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Yes, I am one of those humans that react to both gluten and soy! And I can talk, and therefore explain what is bothering me, even if Doctors and other people do not believe me. I feel so badly for dogs who are probably trying to tell us, and we are so dense we do not understand what they are saying! 

So good to hear about Beckie! "Today she’s been on Royal canin anallergenic and she was such in good spirit, it was a joy to see "

Yeah, hooray!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> I’ve thought about doing that but I wonder if it’s useful since the way the ingredient is used might make a difference. But I should try comparing at least the 3-4 last bags of food, in case there is a tendency.


You can even just compare the RC with the vegan to start. It’ll take just a few minutes, even if you take the time to actually write it out (which I think can be helpful).

It may not provide all the answers, but it could be a start.

I recently had a horrible flare-up of a bladder issue, which I traced back to the small amount of pineapple juice I’d been enjoying with my dinners...to help with digestion. It was _helping_ one issue, while making another worse. Urrrggghhh. I will say, though, that the digestive issues are more bearable than the bladder one. And maybe that’s where you’ll end up with Beckie—bearable symptoms.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

One more thought. Has this been followed up on recently?



Rose n Poos said:


> Cholestasis - attributed to ?? chronic? resolved?


It would certainly explain the itchiness.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Oh darn. Just saw that this has been ruled out. So liver levels are all good?


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Having another thought...

I think it was twyla who'd mentioned FreshPet food. This is much more of a homemade style food, sold in big box pet stores, some grocery stores, and some Walmart's. I checked what I think is your general area and I think you might be able to find it. It's refrigerated rather than frozen and shipped, as with those other companies. It can be bought in pretty small quantities so there's not a big investment needed. 

This is what the presentation case looks like









I've checked the recipes and there's three, maybe four, variations that might be worth looking over but availability is the issue.


There's a beef with bison (no poultry listed)
It's sort of a paté consistency, so doesn't look all that appetizing but is what is










*All Ingredients*
Beef, Beef Liver, Bison, Beef Broth, Spinach, Cranberries, Blueberries, Pea Protein, Carrageenan, Salt, Natural Flavors, Potassium Chloride, Inulin, Celery Powder, Fish Oil

*Vitamins:*
Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid
*Minerals:*
Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate

In this same form, there's a Salmon and Whitefish
*All Ingredients*
Salmon, Fish Broth, Spinach, Cranberries, Blueberries, Ocean Whitefish, Sweet Potatoes, Lentils, Sunflower Oil, Pea Protein, Carrageenan, Natural Flavors, Celery Powder, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Inulin

*Vitamins:*
Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid
*Minerals:*
Dicalcium Phosphate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate


and in a different form, a beef only animal protein but is a complete, balanced meal









*All Ingredients*
Beef, Beef Broth, Beef Liver, Pea Protein, Pea Fiber, Natural Flavors, Salt, Cultured Dextrose

*Vitamins:*
Choline Bitartrate, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin, Calcium Pantothenate, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate , Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement
*Minerals:*
Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Potassium Iodide, Selenium Proteinate

There's yet another variation of beef and lamb, but there are eggs further down in the ingredients list.










*All Ingredients*
Beef, Beef Liver, Lentil Flour, Lamb, Egg, Pea Protein, Beef Broth, Pea Fiber, Natural Flavors, Cranberries, Sunflower Oil, Spinach, Salt, Vinegar, Carrageenan, Fish Oil, Celery Powder

*Vitamins:*
Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid
*Minerals:*
Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate


Like PTP said, just thinking out loud and hoping something helps.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I know you have strong reservations about the anallergenic food, but if she is happy and healthy on it for me that would decide the issue. I would simply feed her the stuff that keeps her comfortable, no matter how bizarre the ingredients seem. Perhaps in a year or two you could try the horse meat and potatoes, if you can find someone to prepare it for you, but for now I think the poor little sausage deserves a comfy tummy, even if it means eating feathers! You have put so much thought and effort into this - time for you both to be able to relax and get on with life.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> You can even just compare the RC with the vegan to start. It’ll take just a few minutes, even if you take the time to actually write it out (which I think can be helpful).


I plan on doing that. I will post the results.



PeggyTheParti said:


> Oh darn. Just saw that this has been ruled out. So liver levels are all good?


Yep, all good. She has a geriatric blood panel (more complete) just a few months ago and everything was fine.



Rose n Poos said:


> *All Ingredients*
> Beef, Beef Liver, Bison, Beef Broth, Spinach, Cranberries, Blueberries, Pea Protein, Carrageenan, Salt, Natural Flavors, Potassium Chloride, Inulin, Celery Powder, Fish Oil


Thanks for the suggestion. This is really fine food but that’s where we started last summer, before I went to the dermatologist. She’s tried 3 different brands of similar foods and 5-6 different animal proteins and none of them worked. What might be a game changer is if her allergies were actually seasonal allergies and not triggered by food. We will only know this summer. If she starts licking while being on a food that works for her, then it will mean she’s not actually intolerant to meat. Or not all meats. But somehow I doubt it, because she always had adverse reactions in winter as well, not just in summer. 



fjm said:


> I know you have strong reservations about the anallergenic food, but if she is happy and healthy on it for me that would decide the issue. I would simply feed her the stuff that keeps her comfortable, no matter how bizarre the ingredients seem. Perhaps in a year or two you could try the horse meat and potatoes, if you can find someone to prepare it for you, but for now I think the poor little sausage deserves a comfy tummy, even if it means eating feathers! You have put so much thought and effort into this - time for you both to be able to relax and get on with life.


I agree 100%. That’s what I’m strongly leaning to do. Especially seeing how well she has been the last two days, since going back on it. The only thing that annoys me is that this food is like pressed powder and when she eats, it stays stucked on her teeth, way in the back. And brushing doesn’t take care of it. Which means if she stays on it, she will need a dental cleaning every year. Putting a dog under anesthesia is risky and something I would like to avoid.

But as you said wisely, we both need a break !


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Here is the comparison between the food she does well on and the food she does worse on. The ingredients in both foods are in *bold*. It isn’t helping but at least now I know !

Royal canin anallergenic (best food)









Purina H/A (worse food)


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Okay, so the potentially triggering ingredients are:

Hydrolyzed soy protein isolate
Partially hydrogenated canola oil preserved with TBHQ
Tricalcium phosphate 
Dicalcium phosphate
Corn oil 
Guar gum
Salt
Zinc sulfate
Vitamin E supplement 
Manganese sulfate
Vitamin A supplement
Garlic oil
Calcium iodate
Menadione sodium bisulfite complex (vitamin K)
C-2626

Is there _any_ other food she’s tolerated well? If so, you can look at the ingredients in that one, and cross any overlap off this list.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Is there _any_ other food she’s tolerated well? If so, you can look at the ingredients in that one, and cross any overlap off this list.


Thank you ! I’ll add that to her journal. Unfortunately it’s the only food. She can eat apples and bananas but they’re not on the list so not helping.

Soon I’ll be trying hypoallergenic treats and maybe I can cross more on the list.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> Thank you ! I’ll add that to her journal. Unfortunately it’s the only food. She can eat apples and bananas but they’re not on the list so not helping.
> 
> Soon I’ll be trying hypoallergenic treats and maybe I can cross more on the list.


I’m glad she can enjoy those fresh, yummy foods. 

By doing the same process myself, I actually ruled out food triggers, which was disappointing at first. But that ultimately helped me determine it was shampoo that was causing Peggy’s horrible crusty eyes. Hooray!!

I know that’s not the case for Beckie, but stay hopeful. A revelation might be right around the corner.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

My Spoo also does well with Apples (only Organic, Not others!) and Bananas (any)
He only does well with Earthbath shampoos (Not their conditioners).

He is also does really well with totally 100% grass fed beef, wild venison, and organically raised hogs, and rabbit (Parts or whole, not ground). And chickens or eggs from totally pasture raised and organically fed chickens. (Plus any animal parts from wild animals, etc, ) (Only organs like liver from 100 % grass fed or 100% organically grown beef , chicken, etc)

I spent a bunch of money on supposedly Organic Liver from several health food stores in Colorado, and it made him sick... I now only buy from personnally known farmers)

NOT any of the expensive raw food mixes premade, or any ground meats. NOT any of the 'cage free' or other fake explanations for free range chicken which is then supplemented with GMO feed, etc.

I so hope your loved one gets well and finds good food


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

kontiki said:


> He is also does really well with totally 100% grass fed beef, wild venison, and organically raised hogs, and rabbit (Parts or whole, not ground). And chickens or eggs from totally pasture raised and organically fed chickens. (Plus any animal parts from wild animals, etc, ) (Only organs like liver from 100 % grass fed or 100% organically grown beef , chicken, etc)


Not to hijack but how did you discover this? Who'd think that the culprit wasn't the protein source but _what the protein source was fed? _


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Some of the worst meat and produce farming practices qualify as organic these days, and the hoops you have to jump through for this certification are increasingly impractical for non-industrial farmers. That’s why many of our local farmers focus on traditional, sustainable methods and don’t bother with USDA certification.

So I don’t personally get too hung up on that label. But corn-fed animals could absolutely be a problem if you or your dog has a severe corn allergy. Same with soy. And industrial chicken breasts are much more fatty than those from even 20 years ago, which I would imagine can also cause digestion issues.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Update : Beckie is still back on Royal canin anallergenic and I’ve decided she will stay on it. Two days ago I gave her some Royal canin hypoallergenic treats that I bought at the vet food store. The clerk had told me the ingredients were the same as the food and I didn’t check them (my bad).

I gave her one treat (a little bigger than a quarter) one day and another one the next day. The same night she had the treat, she started licking frantically. Next day, same thing. That’s when I got suspicious and checked the ingredients. The first ingredient was hydrolyzed soy protein, the same first ingredient in the Purina H/A that gave her a bad reaction! On the third day, this morning, even though I had not given her any, she was still bothered and licking a lot. Then it hit me that her glands were probably full !

So I got an appointment the same day (this morning). Even though they were emptied only 3 weeks ago (one gland was even empty then), both glands were full and the liquid coming out was green (it is usually mostly brown). The technician said to monitor her and have her checked by a vet if she continues licking more than 1-2 days because it could be an infection.

This seems to confirm my theory that there is a link between a reaction to food and the glands filling up more than usual.

While at the vet, I asked the technician to check if Beckies back teeth were getting dirty from the food, as I thought Royal canin anallergenic was sticking to the teeth. She said her teeth are perfect, no food stuck. A little stained, but that’s normal. So this reassures me that she won’t need dental cleaning often because of this food and I’ve decided she is staying on it. It’s not my ideal food, but I will complement it with as many healthy treats as she can tolerate, such as apples, bananes, carrots, nuts, yogurt or whatever she can have.

I also made an appointment for her 4th cytopoint injection. We’re not at the point yet where we can definitely say they are not needed.

I’m feeling more positive even though we still have a challenge coming our way (summer allergies).

(Oh, and I asked for a call from the derm vet but she hasn’t called back. It’s the second time. I’m not impressed but I don’t feel like starting over. I will let her know at my next appointment that I don’t feel their customer care is adequate).


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

The soy link is interesting. There are claims that livestock fed soy can trigger allergic reaction in people who are allergic to it if they eat the meat, although research indicates otherwise.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Good catch, Dechi! Very poor of the person selling them to mislead you like that. 

Some info on soy protein allergies....

“The Nestle-Purina HA soy-based hydrolysate diet was fed for 2 weeks to 14 crossbreed dogs that were known to be allergic to soy and/or corn.25 Of the 14 dogs, 3 reacted adversely to the hydrolysed soy diet, all of which were hypersensitive to both soy and corn, so it is uncertain to what fraction the dogs were reacting to. This study demonstrated for the first time, that a commercially available hydrolysate diet can be fed to the majority of dogs sensitized to the intact source protein without eliciting clinical signs. However, it also indicated that a significant proportion (21%) of dogs sensitized to the intact compounds will still react adversely to the hydrolysed diet. This re-emphasizes the limitations of the currently available hydrolysed protein diets. For maximum confidence in performing an elimination diet trial, it is still important - even when using a hydrolysed protein diet - to obtain an accurate dietary history and to choose a diet that contains ingredients the patient is unlikely to be sensitized to.”





__





Hydrolysed Protein Diets - WSAVA2013 - VIN







www.vin.com





I’m sure Beckie loves the healthier, whole food treats anyway. Maybe you could dehydrate a batch of her favourite fruits in your oven on low heat. Or, if that would be bad for her teeth, freeze little dabs of yogurt for “crunchy” treats.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Off topic, but wondering if the tolerance for yoghurt (what about cheese?) When she seems to react to everything else would allow future hypoallergenic formulas to be made with whey protein as a novel source. 

For now- glad she has something that mostly works, even if it is feathers! 

I wonder if she could handle hamster yoghurt drops sometime in the far future when you are feeling adventurous.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I’m sure Beckie loves the healthier, whole food treats anyway. Maybe you could dehydrate a batch of her favourite fruits in your oven on low heat. Or, if that would be bad for her teeth, freeze little dabs of yogurt for “crunchy” treats.


That’s a very good idea ! When I get to the point of testing yogurt, I’ll keep that in mind. Dehydrated fruits could be an occasional treat also.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Off topic, but wondering if the tolerance for yoghurt (what about cheese?) When she seems to react to everything else would allow future hypoallergenic formulas to be made with whey protein as a novel source.
> 
> For now- glad she has something that mostly works, even if it is feathers!
> 
> I wonder if she could handle hamster yoghurt drops sometime in the far future when you are feeling adventurous.


That’s a good idea too ! If she doesn’t react to yogurt, I could then buy good quality yogurt treats for rodents.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Dechi, I kept a list of all ingredients of all the foods I tried as well as some of the treats. That’s how I was able to narrow it down to legumes and fish. I use Fresh pet as treats, they have two very similar versions, one has peas (legume) and one without. One makes her sick (legumes) and one doesn’t. That was a very nice confirmation of what I saw on my charts.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Skylar said:


> Dechi, I kept a list of all ingredients of all the foods I tried as well as some of the treats. That’s how I was able to narrow it down to legumes and fish. I use Fresh pet as treats, they have two very similar versions, one has peas (legume) and one without. One makes her sick (legumes) and one doesn’t. That was a very nice confirmation of what I saw on my charts.


Yes, I think it’s key. I didn’t have a starting point before but now that I do, I’ve started doing it (thanks PTP).


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> Yes, I think it’s key. I didn’t have a starting point before but now that I do, I’ve started doing it (thanks PTP).


You’re welcome.  It’s not especially helpful until you find something they _don’t_ react to. Then you can start crossing possible culprits off the list. Until then it’s just overwhelming.

So thank goodness for that feather food!

And if yogurt ends up being okay, a little bit of kefir could be beneficial, as well. I’ve started adding it to my own smoothies. Love it.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

PeggyTheParti said:


> So thank goodness for that feather food!


Ha Ha Ha ! I can just imagine the person’s reaction if they asked me « what do you feed your dogs ? » and my answer was « feathers »...


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

PeggyTheParti said:


> And if yogurt ends up being okay, a little bit of kefir could be beneficial, as well. I’ve started adding it to my own smoothies. Love it.


My Spoo absolutely loves Kefir ! I drink only the plain, and then rinse out my glass with a bit of water since it sticks to the glass, and pour it in his dish. He practically races to drink it and lick the bowl. 

I'm using it as a way to get him to drink more water too as he doesn't drink much.

Thinking about how to make yogurt treats. Maybe I will try spooning small drops onto parchment paper on a cookie sheet, putting them on very low (150 F ?)in the oven and see what happens.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

kontiki said:


> Thinking about how to make yogurt treats. Maybe I will try spooning small drops onto parchment paper on a cookie sheet, putting them on very low (150 F ?)in the oven and see what happe


I would make cookies with his regular kibble food and use a little bit of yogurt and less water. Beckies cookies with her feather food are :


3 cups kibble
about 1 cup water
mix in blender
cook in oven at 350F for 25-35 minutes

It keeps in the fridge for many weeks.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Dechi said:


> I would make cookies with his regular kibble food and use a little bit of yogurt and less water. Beckies cookies with her feather food are :
> 
> 
> 3 cups kibble
> ...


If you 'cook' it at a much lower temperature for longer it will retain more of the enzymes and nutrients.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

kontiki said:


> If you 'cook' it at a much lower temperature for longer it will retain more of the enzymes and nutrients.


I really hate baking theses cookies and I’m only doing it because I can’t buy anything commercial. The house stinks dog food for days when I make a batch. Thanks for the tip though !


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Dechi said:


> I would make cookies with his regular kibble food and use a little bit of yogurt and less water. Beckies cookies with her feather food are :
> 
> 
> 3 cups kibble
> ...


I guess I'm missing something here. Just kibble and water? Why make them? Just give him kibble. What's the benefit here, moist kibble?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

94Magna_Tom said:


> I guess I'm missing something here. Just kibble and water? Why make them? Just give him kibble. What's the benefit here, moist kibble?


Yeah, you’d have to read the thread to understand. And it’s getting pretty long. The benefit is not moist kibble. Beckie has food intolerances and can’t eat anything other than her kibble or she has reactions. It gets pretty boring and she likes having treats every day. If I give her a piece of kibble, it’s boring, she won’t take it. But she goes nuts for these cookies ! That’s all she can eat, besides her kibble and apples, carrots and potatoes as treats also.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

I get it now. Thanks for clearing it up. I've been following the thread, but I guess I lost my train of thought here.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Dechi here’s an idea that may or may not work for you. Have you considered grinding some kibble and blend it with a small amount of mashed potato or sweet potion carrot to make a thick paste that you can break off small pieces as a treat? It would avoid baking and smelling up the house?

Another idea, bake your recipe in a toaster outside?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Skylar said:


> Dechi here’s an idea that may or may not work for you. Have you considered grinding some kibble and blend it with a small amount of mashed potato or sweet potion carrot to make a thick paste that you can break off small pieces as a treat? It would avoid baking and smelling up the house?
> 
> Another idea, bake your recipe in a toaster outside?


Oh, that’s not a bad idea to blend with mashed potatoes and no baking ! I might try that. The toaster would be hard to do because the kind I have doesn’t allow for anything but bread to cook. Also, forget about anything outside from november to april around here, snow gets in the way.

I’ll let you know when I try it. I could even give it frozen for added crunch and chewing time !


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Hmmm, how abouot softening kibble, or smushed blended kibble, in applesauce (No sugar or other ingredients). Then allowing small drops of them to simply dry, or baking on super low? That may even smell pretty good


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

kontiki said:


> Hmmm, how abouot softening kibble, or smushed blended kibble, in applesauce (No sugar or other ingredients). Then allowing small drops of them to simply dry, or baking on super low? That may even smell pretty good


Oh, yeah, I like that ! I’ll add apple sauce to my list of groceries to be delivered next time.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Well, that’s it, we’re done ! We had our spring follow-up appointment with the dermatologist and Beckie is officially diagnosed with food allergies. Now we will only have an annual check-up every october. She is doing very well on her feather food (R/C anallergenic). She likes it and I’ve come to like it too so she is staying on it.

She hadn’t had her glands emptied in over 2 months, compared to sometimes weekly before we could manage her allergies. They were really full though so 2 months is a bit much. I figure 6 weeks would be more like it. She also hasn’t had her monthly Cytopoint injection and I will be monitoring her and give it if needed. The scratching/biting/licking has decreased a lot and is now in the normal range. It will increase when she needs her glands expressed.

What she is eating
- Royal canin anallergenic 100% as her main food

Treats :

apples
bananas
homemade treats with the R/C food, apples and bananas
Veggie dent treats from the vet (about once a week)
Whimzees (about once a week)
Sweet potatoe treats (once a month)

I’m happy we went through all this detective work. And I’m sure if Beckie could talk she would say she is happy too !


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Making the very best lemonade from this  

The best news is that you have confirmation of the problem and a way to manage it!! 
Happiness abounds 🌈 🦋!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

It's been a long journey, but a successful one. Well done, and lovely to know Becky is feeling so much better.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Congratulations, there’s a special joy In knowing you have your dogs health under control with the right diet for them... the one that reduces or eliminates health issues.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Thanks everyone for your support through all of it ! It has helped tremendously, even more when I was discouraged.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Dechi said:


> Thanks everyone for your support through all of it ! It has helped tremendously, even more when I was discouraged.


It's great that you know for sure. So what specifically is she allergic to?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

This is really fabulous news. What a journey!!

Now that the underlying allergies are under control, if Becky’s anything like Peggy, eliminating glycerin might fully resolve the anal gland issue. We’ve seen such a dramatic change, but I know all dogs are different.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

94Magna_Tom said:


> It's great that you know for sure. So what specifically is she allergic to?


There isn’t much she isn’t reacting to. We’ve tried dozens of animal proteins, soy, corn and probably others I don’t remember. I’ve tried dozens of regular kibble, with or without grains, raw meat, kibbles for sensitive stomach, hydrolyzed protein, freeze dried, vegetarian food, vegan food, name it.

The only food she tolerates is Royal Canin anallergenic, which has ingredients that don’t even look like food…. But it’s from the vet and she is doing very well on it. Nice, small stools, shiny coat. And also fruits.

I won’t be trying much more foods, since it’s very hard on her and myself. This year has been very demanding and I’m glad it’s over. Right now she has enough foods to eat that her life isn’t boring. She has a bit of variety and is happy.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Oh. I thought when you said the dermatologist confirmed it that meant something like she had a positive reaction from a specific allergy test. Like when people try to figure out what they're allergic to (multiple injections of various allergens). How did the dermatologist come to the food allergy conclusion? Glad she's got a fair variety of foods she can eat! Been a tough year!


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Oh. I thought when you said the dermatologist confirmed it that meant something like she had a positive reaction from a specific allergy test. Like when people try to figure out what they're allergic to (multiple injections of various allergens). How did the dermatologist come to the food allergy conclusion? Glad she's got a fair variety of foods she can eat! Been a tough year!


No, there are no food allergy tests that exist for dogs, according to my dermatologist (she has training and work experience in US so I suppose it’s the same in the states).


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Beckie has been licking her bum and scratching a lot for the past two weeks. I hadn’t given her cytopoint shots for more than 2 months as I was testing her to see if she needed it. That was the last thing that needed testing. Her glands were emptied on may 27th, but she smelled fishy 2 weeks later and I emptied them myself on june 11th. Then again today by the vet tech. So that’s 3 times in less than 3 weeks. These are all signs of allergies.

So now I guess I have my answer. She also has environmental allergies and she needs her cytopoint. I think I’ll keep her on a 4-5 weeks schedule for the summer and 6 weeks in the winter.

She also had her annual check-up and heartworm and Lyme disease testing. All was good.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Not the answer hoped for, but an answer that can be lived with. Hoping for calm waters for you all .


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Update : the cytopoint seemed to help Beckie a little bit, but barely. Almost two weeks later, she was still continuously licking. So I figured I would try Apoquel, even though it didn’t help last summer when we tried it for 2 weeks. 

My reasoning was maybe it didn’t help because at the time I was doing my own personal food trial and she might have been reacting so much to the food that what the Apoquel improved was masked with more intense reactions from the food.

So I got her Apoquel 3 days ago. Given twice a day for a week, then once a day. So far so good, fingers crossed it’s not just a coincidence. This stuff is very expensive, more than 4$ per pill. I’m so happy I have insurance. I’m still not used to it and almost forgot to bring my claim form…

So if the Apoquel works, that means my little devil not only is allergic to most foods, but she also has seasonal allergies. Who would have thought ?

The remaining question now might be : are the cytopoint injections really necessary ? I’ll have to do more testing on that one.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Beckie is so lucky that you are carefully working through all the options for the best solution. 

There’s a level of peace and comfort once you have all the pieces of the puzzle in place so everything is optimal for Beckie and she’s not suffering from those darn allergies.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Here is a blurb I found,


*What is Apoquel and why is it one of today’s more popular treatment options for allergic itch?*
One of the advantages of the oral treatment Apoquel is that it’s nonsteroidal and takes effect quickly. Apoquel targets specific cytokines (proteins) that lead to itch and inflammation. It comes in tablet form and is given daily, providing relief for 24 hours. Apoquel cannot be used for dogs under one year or breeding, pregnant, or lactating dogs. Apoquel side effects are reportedly rare (less than 1 dog out of 10,000 treated), but may include vomiting, diarrhea, lethargy, anorexia, or blood work changes. Apoquel has been safely used with other common medications such as antibiotics, parasiticides and vaccinations. Your vet, with your input, can determine if Apoquel might be right for your pet.

*Cytopoint Injections are another leading treatment option for allergic itch.*
The advantage of Cytopoint is that one injection can start controlling your pet’s itching usually within a day, and can provide relief that lasts for 4 to 8 weeks. It’s safe to use in dogs of any age and can be used with various medications. Cytopoint will not put pressure on your pet’s liver or kidney because it is not chemical-based. Instead, it’s an antibody that blocks the itch signal in your pets nervous system. As with Apoquel, side effects are reportedly rare, but your vet will determine if this medication is right for your particular fuzzy family member.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Thanks @twyla, I’m glad to read that both are safe.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Twyla - is there a link or source for your blurb? I am always curious to read more.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

kontiki said:


> Twyla - is there a link or source for your blurb? I am always curious to read more.


I copied and pasted some of it into Google and got this:



StackPath


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Update : Beckie is doing better now that she is on Apoquel. I’m keeping her on both Apoquel and Cytopoint until september-october. Then I’ll stop Apoquel until next summer.


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## Porkchop (Sep 2, 2019)

Yay! I’m happy to hear that things have improved for Beckie. I hope it continues to go well for your cute little girl.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

So happy to hear Beckie is doing well. Phew.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

So glad the combo is working


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Tomorrow we are going for Beckie’s 1 year follow-up with the dermatologist. She has been mostly stable since we put her on the feather food, as I like to call it (R/C anallergenic). She is still eating apples and bananas and veggie dent hypo treats from the vet. I have also introduced a few others, which she is doing fine with : a pumpkin treat, whimzees and recently even bully sticks. Those are fed sparingly but it’s going well. 

I’ve also started to give her canned Royal canin z/d hypoallergenic food. A very small amount, maybe 1 teaspoon per day. I’ve had to start giving canned food again to Merlin, since he’s back on his meds. I felt bad not giving her any so I figured we’d do a trial. So far so good. I’ve also done a 3-4 day trial with R/C hypoallergenic canned food and she had a quick reaction and it lasted almost 1 week after I stopped giving it.

Lately she’s been licking the side of her thigh and it took me two days to find out what it was about. Even with a flashlight I couldn’t see it. I finally saw a small skin lesion, the size of a green pea. I disinfected it and put polysporin on it for many days. I made her wear a pyjama so she wouldn’t lick it. It seems painful because she tries to lick it even with her pyjama on, sometimes. This will be discussed with the dermatologist.

I also want to discuss stopping Apoquel (I plan on starting again in the late spring) and if I can discontinue Cytopoint, at least to see how it goes.

Her glands will have to be emptied. Last time was 6 weeks ago. We went from every 1-2 weeks to every 6-8 weeks.

More to come after her appointment.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Sounds like you're still on track! I'll be watching for the vet's opinion on the small lesion.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dechi said:


> Her glands will have to be emptied. Last time was 6 weeks ago. We went from every 1-2 weeks to every 6-8 weeks.


Never thought I’d be so thrilled by anal gland news! You guys have come a long way, and I know it’s not been easy.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Good to hear she is doing so well - hard work and a long journey but so worth it.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

What a journey, Dechi. And such a successful one, thanks to you. Sweet Beckie is so lucky to have landed you as family 🥰. Of course, Merlin absolutely. QED, I think they say? Hope I've used it correctly. In short, you are awesome.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Thanks guys ! I’ll update tomorrow, I’m done for the day. Mostly good news.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

So the appointment went well. I brought her chart and history spread sheet, which showed stability, except for a test I did in september with canned R/C hypoallergenic that triggered symptoms for a week.

The vet is in love with her, she said she wishes all her patients were like Beckie and she’d like to take her home…. She is so sweet, she licks them while they are poking at her. I’m always a proud mum when a vet likes my dog.

They couldn’t find the lesion on her thigh so I showed it to the vet when they called me in. She said it didn’t look like much and to keep an eye on it. If it grows, I need to get it checked. There is a crust on it and she thinks it might just fall on it’s own and that will be the end of it. We did a full blood work panel, as apparently Apoquel can be hard on the liver and/or kidneys. Everything was perfect, with one value, SDMA or something like that, sightly over the maximum threshold (15, and max is 14). 

I could do a complete urinalysis just to be sure it’s nothing but since Beckie is doing well and the vet says it’s fine since her creatinine levels are perfect, I won‘t do it. I was going to but I need to refrain myself a bit, as I tend to overreact very easily.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Good to hear that she's doing well on her current regimen. You're doing great!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Excellent news - really good to know all the work is paying off for a happy, healthy Beckie.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

« I could do a complete urinalysis just to be sure it’s nothing but since Beckie is doing well and the vet says it’s fine since her creatinine levels are perfect, I won‘t do it. I was going to but I need to refrain myself a bit, as I tend to overreact very easily. » (quoting myself)

Paranoid me had to do the test. Beckie drank a lot yesterday and vomited water and undigested food so I got worried and couldn’t get it out of my mind. The test came back normal. At least now I know.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Sometimes it is worth paying for peace of mind.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

fjm said:


> Sometimes it is worth paying for peace of mind.


She’s been feeling so-so the past few days. Ever since she vomited. She doesn’t have a lot of appetite but she still enjoys her walks. She doesn’t play much with Merlin though. She’ll growl if he tries. That’s what she does when she’s under the weather. I hope she gets better soon. :-(


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

I hope Beckie gets better quickly, Dechi. I'm sorry she is not feeling herself.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Streetcar said:


> I hope Beckie gets better quickly, Dechi. I'm sorry she is not feeling herself.


Thank you. I’m happy to say she was feeling better today. She is scratching though, she needs her cytopoint shot. Her appointment is this coming week. I was testing to see if I could delay, but no, she does better when it’s done at 5 weeks max.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Glad she's feeling better


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

It's so good Beckie is better. And now you know her limits re the cytopoint. Talk about triangulating in!!


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