# bad matting



## Kellykath (Mar 28, 2012)

I took my miniature poodle to the groomer today and they told me that he might need to have his ears shaved down because of matts. I try so hard to avoid this. We haven't had to do it in over a year. It was so upsetting to all of us. Usually, they groomers tell me they can come out any problems. This time they said they might not be able to. I told them if they couldn't do it to leave it and I'd try to get them out. Are matts ever really so bad that they have to shave them down?


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## Kellykath (Mar 28, 2012)

Woops I meant comb!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Yes! Sometimes the agony it would cause is just not worth it for the dog.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

How often do you take your dog to the groomer? Also if you ever bathe at home make sure the dog is completely brushed out beforehand. Adding water to matts tightens them. It can be very unfair to the dog if you allow the matting to get bad, it is very painful.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Honestly, I think that it is wrong to depend upon a groomer to take out mats - a poodle should be brushed enough to prevent mats (daily, maybe every other days) - if I ever have so much going on that they get more then minor tangles, the hair is shaved to avoid causing any pain - my fault that the situation occurred, so I pay the price of losing the fluffy poodle look for a while - I won't let the dog pay the price for my actions!


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

You need a groomer like our Madeline! She might be small in stature, but when it comes to poodle grooming and health, Madeline pulls no punches. The one time I let Beau's ears develop a few matts, she charged me an extra $5 and, more importantly, read me the riot act about how if I let that happen again, she would have to shave his ears, because it hurts too much to untangle that area. She also has no problem reminding me to keep Beau's weight down for the sake of his knees. (For example, pointing to a very fat mini on her table, saying "You do not want him to end up a sausage poodle like this!" Ouch!) It's embarrassing to be scolded, but in this case it works. I've stayed (mostly) on top of ear combing ever since that one episode, and there have been no more matts. Beau has also lost a few pounds and is looking good. I know she's doing me and Beau a big favor, and I'm grateful that she's such a fierce advocate for her poodle clients.


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## ChantersMom (Aug 20, 2012)

I brush Chanter's ears almost everyday and they still manage to mat at the tips of the leather. It's hard.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

YES!!! It is cruel to rip matting out for vanity! As a groomer, I prefer to shave out mating, I'm not in the business of torturing animals. If I have to remove mats you bet you would have to pay me to demat and I am ruthless on that. If its so bad I have to shave it you still have to pay, just not as much. Why?! Because brushing then combing your dog is free, with the exception of the initial cost of the brush and comb. If a client neither wishes to pay me to demat the dog, nor the very least allows me to shave the dog then they can take their dog ungroomed . I would not contribute to the further tightening of the mats, nor will I enable the owner to continue to allow the matting to get worse as long as its still long or fluffy.

Removing the matting is similar to when one is a child and mom rips out tangles... Not mats just the tangles were bad enough. Removing matting from the ears especially the ear tips can cause enough stress to rip the ear.. It need not be powerful strokes.. It's the repeated stress on the skin being pulled. The skin is irritated and bruised at best... If mats are allowed to tighten they will suffocate the skin and slowly tear on its own. Underneath mats you can find bruising, lacerations, and some dogs have been known to have rotting skin underneath. That is what can happen if a dog is matted and not dematted appropriately.

I'm sorry if I come across as harsh, but I come across this everyday. Luckily most clients are understanding and vote for a shave down instead. Altho we have a few that are unreasonable with their expectations and don't want to do any of the work.


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

RunChanter said:


> I brush Chanter's ears almost everyday and they still manage to mat at the tips of the leather. It's hard.


That's for sure! Some days, I wonder how Beau would look in a nice German trim. Then I think about shaving off his perfect tail poof, and reach for the Ice on Ice detangler. (Great stuff, BTW. Beau loathes having anything sprayed near his face, so I spray some on the CC comb. Really helps!)


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

We keep Pippin's ears trimmed short as even with regular combing she used to get them in a right state - mainly because she spends a lot of her time with her nose to the ground and would get stuff stuck in them! I got sick of having to work out bits of gum, slug goo, sweets... and they're just the mentionable things!!! 

They're much easier to keep clean and de-matted if they're short, but if you want the real gorgeous poodle long ears like Beau's... they're LOTS of work!

Pushkin has just has his ears scalped as they were matted under the top layer of long hair, so off they came! Now I can keep them combed through as they re-grow.


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## Carrie-e (Oct 23, 2012)

It is hard to keep long ears mat free,I brush my two's head and ears 2 or 3 times a day and spray in conditioner( I only brush the rest of them once a day) I leave my brush and comb out on the table as I have to do it so often!


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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

As a groomer I DREAD the customer who tells me to try to get out the mats and asks why I can't do it. Why? In some cases it is too painful for the dog to brush and dematt. On the ears it can be downright dangerous... I have witnessed ear tears from dematting. Shaving closely is the safest and most painless method. If you let your dog get to that condition, you should suffer the silly look, he/she should not suffer! Also, take some of your arm hair, pull it up and twist it. That is how a mat feels like... painful yes? Brush and comb your dog daily or keep your dog cut short so that it is less maintenance for you.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

When there is a solid piece of hair attacked to your pets ear, in the shape of the ear, encasing the ear, no, we can't brush that out. It's not a groomers job to brush your dog between groomings, if you really want that fluffy look you need to be maintaining your pet's coat at home. This means brushing AND combing with the proper equipment.

Think of this as a punishment for neglecting to brush, only in a humanity over vanity sort of way.


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## brownlikewoah (May 3, 2012)

When the mats become too tight it is nicest & safest to shave them out & start fresh. Ideally your dog is brushed on a regular basis & the mats never form. Poodles need to be groomed every 4-6 weeks, if it is a complete shave you can get away with 6-8 weeks. Ears can be very DANGEROUS to have become matted, it cuts off blood flow and it is not uncommon for the dog to develop hematomas Grooming Smarter: Hematomas 
please don't let this happen to your dog again. I've seen tails so matted that it cuts off blood flow & actually KILLS THE TAIL.
Learn how to line brush, all the way down to the skin while using leave in conditioner. You'll use a slicker brush first, then a metal comb to make sure there are no mats. There are lots of videos on youtube for this, or ask your groomer to teach you for a fee.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

So after my mini retired from the ring, ready to be a mom... I neglected her for almost a week(we went on a small honeymoon) lol and she started to develop mats on an ear. I come home and am shocked, my friend mentions the matting as well lol. That was it... Line brushed her gently for like an hour, bathed/dried her, harvested wiggies, and mowed her down to 1/2" all over! Then I whacked her ears off!! I trimmed them up pretty well so they wouldn't go in her mouth when she ate. I was soooooo happy. My husband who has been waiting for years to see her cut down says.... Her ears are too short. I glared at him and said, when YOU start brushing these dogs I'll leave em as long as you like. Well that was that .


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Jamie Hein said:


> As a groomer I DREAD the customer who tells me to try to get out the mats and asks why I can't do it. Why? In some cases it is too painful for the dog to brush and dematt. On the ears it can be downright dangerous... I have witnessed ear tears from dematting. Shaving closely is the safest and most painless method. If you let your dog get to that condition, you should suffer the silly look, he/she should not suffer! Also, take some of your arm hair, pull it up and twist it. That is how a mat feels like... painful yes? Brush and comb your dog daily or keep your dog cut short so that it is less maintenance for you.


When I first started grooming we did a lot of matted dogs.. I remember my first split ear. Shaved a little poodle down with a 7, poo f,f,t.. I was able to gently demat the ears. Everything was all dematted and no spilt ears! I take my comb and run it thru the ear to get ready to trim and that's when the bleeding begins!!! It wasn't bad, but I felt bad and never do I demat ears anymore! Oh, sorry, gotta shave that, oh no? Can't groom her then.


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## murphys (Mar 1, 2012)

A plus side to having short hair on the ears (Fritz' hair on his ears is probably about an 1 or 2 long) is that it lets additional air circulate and looks quite nice. Fritz has bothersome ear canals and I need to keep on top of them. His hair has a nice curl. I find I didn't have the time to brush/comb him daily and this works for us.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

If a person is not williing to brush their poodle then they need to be willing to take them to the groomer no less than every two weeks. During coat change they would need to go weekly. If you are going every 4-6 weeks or more and not brushing in between then they should be kept short all over. Nothing else is fair for the dog. If you brush through their ears only twice a week it doesn't take much time and you should not have matts. Ear skin is too sensitive to allow matts to form and then try to brush them out. 

My sister in law keeps her poodles ears about 3/4 of an inch of hair off the end of his ear leather, that's it. She leaves an inch or two at most on the flat part. He never has matts that way and they are still fluffy and cute, but he has exceptionally long ear leathers and a dense coat. Maybe that is why it still looks good, but you could try leaving them fluffy, but with shorter hair.


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## Jamie Hein (Aug 17, 2013)

Ladyscarletthawk said:


> When I first started grooming we did a lot of matted dogs.. I remember my first split ear. Shaved a little poodle down with a 7, poo f,f,t.. I was able to gently demat the ears. Everything was all dematted and no spilt ears! I take my comb and run it thru the ear to get ready to trim and that's when the bleeding begins!!! It wasn't bad, but I felt bad and never do I demat ears anymore! Oh, sorry, gotta shave that, oh no? Can't groom her then.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


That same thing happened to the previous manager of the salon I work at! She was just gently combing through and the ear split open. Also, after shaving the matted ears with a 10 once, blood just started coming out of the pores! Luckily I haven't had it happen to a dog I've groomed, but I have decided that I want to do what is right for the dogs, and not the owner after dematting the whole body of a golden doodle because the owner wanted him at 1 inch minimum coat length ... never again.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Hematomas can happen after you release the pressure of the matting from the ears. They start to shake a lot and the centrifugal force cause blood to rush and pool to the ear tips where it eventually starts to bleed. It can happen in a matter of minutes! Another downside of matting I forgot to mention. 


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

Maybe you are not brushing correctly? Because it happened to me, Lou was about 6 months old and I brushed her every single day, thoroughly. BUT the brush I was using didn't go through the hair deep enough to the skin, so she matted up all over her skin and the ends looked fine. So we had her shaved down completely and I bought an excellent comb and brush. And my friend/groomer taught me how to brush. So now both my poodles are still going through coat change but they have no matts at all ! Last groomer recently said they had zero mats. And I felt proud of myself and happy that my poodles are comfortable and no matts are pulling on their skin 
Maybe ask the groomer to teach you how to brush and comb. Buy a great quality comb and brush Do it daily.
Or keep the hair shaved short so it doesn't mat



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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Kellykath, I hope we are not scaring you off the forum but you can see this is something we feel passionately about. Since this is a reoccurring problem perhaps you are unaware how to comb and brush properly to avoid this problem. I use a CC poodle comb and make sure I come down to the skin. I do this everyday. It is not hard, think of it as a bonding opportunity.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

LEUllman said:


> You need a groomer like our Madeline! She might be small in stature, but when it comes to poodle grooming and health, Madeline pulls no punches. The one time I let Beau's ears develop a few matts, she charged me an extra $5 and, more importantly, read me the riot act about how if I let that happen again, she would have to shave his ears, because it hurts too much to untangle that area. She also has no problem reminding me to keep Beau's weight down for the sake of his knees. (For example, pointing to a very fat mini on her table, saying "You do not want him to end up a sausage poodle like this!" Ouch!) It's embarrassing to be scolded, but in this case it works. I've stayed (mostly) on top of ear combing ever since that one episode, and there have been no more matts. Beau has also lost a few pounds and is looking good. I know she's doing me and Beau a big favor, and I'm grateful that she's such a fierce advocate for her poodle clients.


Your groomer sounds like my groomer. I was there when she reemed out a woman because her poodle's eyes were crusted shut. She was very polite but it was quite a dressing down.


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## ChantersMom (Aug 20, 2012)

If the ears have to completely shaved down, perhaps your groomer can do something creative so that your mini is an head turning when you are out walking with him/her! That is fun!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Lou said:


> Maybe you are not brushing correctly? Because it happened to me, Lou was about 6 months old and I brushed her every single day, thoroughly. BUT the brush I was using didn't go through the hair deep enough to the skin, so she matted up all over her skin and the ends looked fine. So we had her shaved down completely and I bought an excellent comb and brush. And my friend/groomer taught me how to brush. So now both my poodles are still going through coat change but they have no matts at all ! Last groomer recently said they had zero mats. And I felt proud of myself and happy that my poodles are comfortable and no matts are pulling on their skin
> Maybe ask the groomer to teach you how to brush and comb. Buy a great quality comb and brush Do it daily.
> Or keep the hair shaved short so it doesn't mat
> 
> ...


I used to get lectured and charged a fortune by groomers all the time with my first poodle. I protested that I brushed her every day, but they just glared at me. If only one had the kindness to show me how to brush a poodle, but nope, so I gave up and just had her shaved down every time. Wasn't till I got on the internet that I found out from fellow poodle lovers how to brush them, and you know how much mat free coat my girls have today!
Now that I groom myself though, I know how easy it is to shave them down, and I am pissed at how much extra they used to charge me because she was matted. I used to bring her in as soon as her hair began to mat at about an inch long, and ask them to shave her down - there was no reason to charge me extra for that, as I now know it was much easier to do then scissoring!


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

It is easy to shave them down, when they are not severely matted. But.....when they are matted it can be very difficult and it slows the process waaayyy down. Our groomers charged by how much time it took. With severely matted dogs you have to go very very slowly so that you do not cut them. The matting gets very close to the skin and the blade has to move between the matt and the skin. When you are trying to get the blade under the matt it sometimes pulls up on the skin and the skin catches in the blade.

I'm sure yours weren't nearly as matted as most we got. There were some that were so matted that there were sores under the matting.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> It is easy to shave them down, when they are not severely matted. But.....when they are matted it can be very difficult and it slows the process waaayyy down. Our groomers charged by how much time it took. With severely matted dogs you have to go very very slowly so that you do not cut them. The matting gets very close to the skin and the blade has to move between the matt and the skin. When you are trying to get the blade under the matt it sometimes pulls up on the skin and the skin catches in the blade.
> 
> I'm sure yours weren't nearly as matted as most we got. There were some that were so matted that there were sores under the matting.


No, she was not bad - no mats in the ears or topknot - the second that it would start to mat on her body, when it was about an inch long, I would bring her in for a shave down - not separate mats or anything pulling the skin - just as soon as I saw that it got so I couldn't separate it. Like I said, I was just a dope who did not know how to brush poodle hair - if you don't know how, the body is much more difficult then the ears or topknot. They really were wrong for charging me a lot extra to do that - but they made me feel so guilty about it, that I went along with the overcharge....


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

And now that I know how to groom, I know it really could have been brushed out in 5 minutes without hurting her (she was tiny - 3 pounds), they just never told me that either - just "she has horrible mats because you don't brush her, that's $50 extra dollars" - just to shave her off!


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

It is amazing that people will take advantage like that. Especially with a tiny thing like that. I bathed Misha today at home. It took me a total of about 1/2 hour to bathe and dry and the only reason it took that long is I let the shampoo sit on her for 10 minutes. 

After, we went to Petco to pick up food and socialize. She got a lot of compliments! I love a freshly bathed poodle! lol


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## Carrie-e (Oct 23, 2012)

I think it would be nice if breeders showed people how to brush a poodle properly. The first standard I had I brushed regularly but not properly. I thought I was doing a good job with the slicker brush but didn't realise how you had to go right down to the skin and then use a comb afterwards. He used to get knotty all the time and I can remember I had him cut quite short. A poodle can look nice and soft on the outside but when you feel right down to their skin they can be knotty. It's not always easy to do and I do think first time poodle owners should be shown as you can't do it properly if you don't know how.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Vienna's ears have gotten pretty long and haven't been brushed in a few days, maybe I'll make another grooming video.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Vienna's ears have gotten pretty long and haven't been brushed in a few days, maybe I'll make another grooming video.


I'd love that! I am so new to this home grooming. The pro groomer I took Matisse to (I can't touch his coat, just the shaved parts...show coming up) told me not to brush or comb him every day...causes too much breakage. But if I don't at least go through him, he will get a little tangle here and there and I do not want it to turn into a tight knot or mat. Soooooo. She also told me to spritz him lightly first with a mixture of water, conditioner, a little oil. I just got into the habit of going through their coats every day. (sometimes twice) I'm a terrified of mats or bad tangles. I do scissor Maurice all over though, but need to grow it out a little as he gets too cold outside. LOL. He needs a little more insulation. It's pretty short right now but I do like how it's easier to comb through and keep nice. His hair is quite curly where Matisse's is poofy and straight. It gets a little of that kinked look when it's almost dry. It makes me think it's on it's way to be corded if I let it, which I won't. lol. I think black Poodles seem to have denser, curlier coats than the whites. (?)

Anyway, your videos would be most appreciated...very kind of you to share.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I was told by a toy poodle handlers/akc/ukc judge to use the Doggy Man brushes for show coat. They're very soft bristled, and was great for Cairo's sensitive puppy skin.

Amazon.com: Millers Forge Stainless Steel Pins Designer Series Soft Slicker Pet Grooming Brush, Small: Pet Supplies


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Fluffyspoos said:


> I was told by a toy poodle handlers/akc/ukc judge to use the Doggy Man brushes for show coat. They're very soft bristled, and was great for Cairo's sensitive puppy skin.
> 
> Amazon.com: Millers Forge Stainless Steel Pins Designer Series Soft Slicker Pet Grooming Brush, Small: Pet Supplies


I like those brushes, but always have to have an extra on hand because those handles will suddenly pop off - sometimes the brush is good for two years, sometimes only two months, you just never know with them.


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## 2719 (Feb 8, 2011)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I like those brushes, but always have to have an extra on hand because those handles will suddenly pop off - sometimes the brush is good for two years, sometimes only two months, you just never know with them.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I agree Tiny Poodles. A few years ago they redesigned the handle on them. They used to have a solid handle attached to the back of the brush. Since they redesigned them they do tend to loosen and come off where the blue band is on the handle. That being said they are the only brush I ever use on my Poodles in show coat (I do use a pin brush for topknot and mane). Luckily the doggyman brush is not too too expensive if you need to replace them.


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