# Advice on choosing the right puppy



## Arcticfox (Dec 12, 2011)

I am looking into getting a standard poodle puppy, and the litter I'm looking at is 12 weeks old now. When I went to meet them, the one I connected with was the runt of the litter. She was such a sweetie but she was shy at first. When the door to their playpen was opened, it was her brothers that ran out first to greet the breeder and then me. The girls all hung back and took a little coaxing before they ventured out. The little brown girl was the last to come out but once she did, she went up to the breeder no problem, and was calm when I approached her. She sat right down next to me and leaned on my legs while I petted her, didn't struggle at all when I picked her up for snuggles. While all the other puppies were jumping all over me (and her) she just snuggled right in and calmly sat/lay down while I pet her. Being a first time (about to be) dog owner, I don't know if this is a sign that she might have some socialization issues later on, with shyness turning into fear or aggression towards strangers, and is 12 weeks past the prime time to socialize her? She grew up in a playroom beside the kitchen but it sounds like the pups had lots of alone time in the back yard rather than human playtime. Also, her mother died when they were 4 weeks, so they're missing some mommy training too. I don't know if these factors should be enough to deter me, or whether a first time owner would be able to handle any problems that might arise from this.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Arcticfox said:


> I am looking into getting a standard poodle puppy, and the litter I'm looking at is 12 weeks old now. When I went to meet them, the one I connected with was the runt of the litter. She was such a sweetie but she was shy at first. When the door to their playpen was opened, it was her brothers that ran out first to greet the breeder and then me. The girls all hung back and took a little coaxing before they ventured out. The little brown girl was the last to come out but once she did, she went up to the breeder no problem, and was calm when I approached her. She sat right down next to me and leaned on my legs while I petted her, didn't struggle at all when I picked her up for snuggles. While all the other puppies were jumping all over me (and her) she just snuggled right in and calmly sat/lay down while I pet her. Being a first time (about to be) dog owner, I don't know if this is a sign that she might have some socialization issues later on, with shyness turning into fear or aggression towards strangers, and is 12 weeks past the prime time to socialize her? She grew up in a playroom beside the kitchen but it sounds like the pups had lots of alone time in the back yard rather than human playtime. Also, her mother died when they were 4 weeks, so they're missing some mommy training too. I don't know if these factors should be enough to deter me, or whether a first time owner would be able to handle any problems that might arise from this.


I would follow your gut. What specifically is attracting you to this breeder? Why did mom die 4 weeks after the puppies were born?


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## Arcticfox (Dec 12, 2011)

Mom was hit by a car. And it's not really the breeder, it's the puppy that I can't get out of my head. The breeder's been very nice about answering my questions, but I don't think her poodles are registered, or show dogs or anything like that. The dad was pretty calm when I met him, sat for a while for some petting then went outside. 

I know there are tons of red falgs in this situation, but I can't help wanting the little girl, she's just so sweet and quiet. I've already named her in my head (bad idea, I know, the instant she has a name I think of her as "mine"). I'm just worried that there will be problems later down the road. I wish I had a dog expert or something to take with me to meet them again.


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## TTUSpoo (Oct 29, 2011)

I say to go with your gut. You named the puppy- that's tough to walk away from!

Please also keep in mind that there will ALWAYS be another puppy. If anxiety is overruling your excitement, it probably means you need to keep searching.

Good luck and I'd love to see an update either way


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Do you know anything about the dad, or how old the mom was when she died and if she had any health problems? Even if they're not registered, the breeder may still know family history which would be helpful to you. But you know what, this might not be the correct advice, but if you love the puppy, and she needs a good home, maybe it will work out great. SOMEONE has to buy her (might as well be you)! Get pet insurance though!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would think carefully. It sounds as if this pup is going to need help to grow up into a happy, sociable dog - you need to be sure you can cope with that. I would be uneasy about the lack of registration and health testing - a well bred puppy from health tested parents may cost more up front, but health or temperament problems later on break your heart as well as your wallet. Are there any other litters you can look at, to make sure this is not just an oxytocin surge influencing your thinking?

But if this really is the pup that makes your heart say "Mine!", and you are prepared for extra work and possibly extra expense, go for it - just find really good mentors to help you. A slightly shy, fearful puppy needs careful handling and socialising to build her confidence - especially if she has not had a mother to teach her. You are aware of the danger of fear aggression, so you are already ahead of the game!


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

I happened to read a blog post recently over at Ruffly Speaking over the whole, "he chose me" phenomena. Thought you and the other readers here might enjoy it:
The tragic myth of being “chosen” by a puppy | | Ruffly SpeakingRuffly Speaking

This is more about super-outgoing puppies, but as fjm so astutely says above, it takes even more thought when a particularly shy puppy "chooses" you. They take more work. There are a few other warning signals in the situation, too.

Still, it *can* all work out; just know what you're getting into.

--Q


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## Theo'sMom (Mar 23, 2011)

I met Theo with 2 of his siblings. He was pretty shy at first. But he showed interest in us. DH wanted the most outgoing puppy, but he seemed too pushy. We spent over an hour with the puppies and then went outside to discuss. Joan, the breeder, told us "you won't have the same puppy as the one you see today when he gets to know you.
I wanted Theo badly. We came back in, Theo jumped in my lap and then he began licking/nipping dh's beard. That settled it! Also, The pushy puppy began biting us again as soon as we came back. 
After 24 hours with us Theo became an outgoing pup. He began biting like crazy, like a normal puppy. :act-up: He forgot that he liked sitting in my lap when he realized there was a great big world out there with things to explore and games to play. My shy puppy turned into a different pup.
At 12 weeks we had a play date with the outgoing pup, who is a wonderful dog. Theo was clearly the more outgoing/confident dog during the play date - completely different then the dAy we met them at 8 weeks.
We did socialize Theo before he finished his shots by taking him to work where there are 1000s of college students. I'm sure this boosted his confidence.

Well, long story short, if the pup showed interest in you, who she just met and let you cuddle, that is a great sign. It's not like she cowered from any human contact. Just make an effort to socialize her.
The concern is it sounds like there's no health testing. You may want to get references then to see if previous litters have been healthy.


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## Aspen (Oct 19, 2011)

This is a great question. The actual selection of your pup is very important and a long term commitment. Consider if you are ready for a dog that may have socialization issues in future. Will your love and commitment be strong enough to work through this? Do you have a trainer close at hand that can help you develop her confidence and detour any bad habits before they develop?

She may just grow into the absolute perfect dog for you but if she doesn't how will you handle that? Sometimes it is good to consider both scenarios and if you can not live with either outcome then pass on this sweetie for both your sakes. But if you can see yourself being thrilled and living happily ,either way, then move forward. Just my 2 cents


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

The fact that you went and looked at a litter of puppies and then walked away is astounding. I have only been able to do that one time when I went to look at some Brittany Spaniels. The sire did not look like a Brittany and only some of the puppies did. It was a weird situation where they wanted a bunch of money for puppies I was pretty sure weren't purebred even though they had papers.

Socialization is very important, but at 12 weeks you have a ton of time to socialize her. Some puppies are overwhelmed by their littermates, but when they get their own family they blossom. Just because she is quiet now doesn't mean she will be quiet later on, either. You want a calmer puppy as a new poodle owner. An exhuberant, confident, pushy puppy could easily dominate an inexperienced person. Because you seem aware of the possible downsides to a quieter puppy makes me think you would be able to handle her, socialize her and make her into a wonderful, confident dog. 

Something about her sang to you. That is exactly what happened when I went to see my puppy the first time. I had a choice of several and right away I gravitated to mine. I don't exactly know what it was, but within minutes I didn't see any of the other puppies. I have been exceedingly happy with my choice. 

Go with you gut on this one. If you decide to get her make sure to tell the person you will take her to the vet the next day for a health check and want to option to return her if she isn't healthy. Being quiet could also be a sign of anything from a heart issue to a simple ear infection.


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## SarainPA (Nov 18, 2011)

When I went to get my first Std back in the late 70's, I was in search of a black female - no exceptions ... none. Nothing else. I talked to many, many breeders and ended up at Florence Grahams house in NJ (that tells you how long ago that was - even before she moved to CA!) to get a black female. 
I met the pup..she was lovely...everything I ever imagined and more. HOWEVER (you had to know there was a "however" didn't you? LOL!) the littermate - a white male, took one look at me, moved her aside and said "I am your dog".
He came home with me 
Sometimes, they do truly pick you out!


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## Arcticfox (Dec 12, 2011)

outwest said:


> Go with you gut on this one. If you decide to get her make sure to tell the person you will take her to the vet the next day for a health check and want to option to return her if she isn't healthy. Being quiet could also be a sign of anything from a heart issue to a simple ear infection.


She did say I have 7 days to get her checked by a vet, and if there are any genetic problems, she would allow a refund.

The dad is now 8 years old, and apparently, has never needed vet attention aside from routine vaccines - no hip or eye problems so far. 

I think I will end up taking her home. I'd have to wait till after christmas though, I've picked up a bunch of extra shifts at work during this time, and my boyfriend is going away for a couple weeks so there's no one around for 8 hours a day on some days. Usually, I only work part time, and boyfriend is in class a few hours a day, so she wont be alone for more than a couple hours at a time. 

What do people mean by working more on socialization? Will the usual frequent trips to petsmart, home depot, and puppy obedience classes be enough? Or do I need a more intensive plan? I do live right next to a University campus so I'm pretty sure daily walks through campus will get her lots of attention once the holidays are over. She will be 14 weeks by then though. Not too late to start?


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Never too late to start! Once she's had all her shots and is cleared for socialization, I'd take her for walks where there are people she doesn't know. She'll be so cute people will want to give her attention, and you can just see how it goes. If she acts timid, maybe go places where there are just a few people so it's not too overwhelming. You can also give other people treats to give her to reinforce the positive association. Obedience classes are fabulous, and there are also puppy socialization classes and puppy daycare, you might want to incorporate one or more of them depending on your budget and how things are going. Oh, and this is important, don't comfort her when she's scared! It's always my instinct to do that, but the experts say it just validates the fear...instead, be jolly, happy and confident. She'll pick up that vibe from you. I know it will go great for you!! She'll be the best dog you ever had, I just know it.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

I dont feel that a timid dog or even the first to run up to you (pushy pup) is good for an inexperienced dog owner. You want something in between. It can be very difficult to bring a timid dog out of its shell, let alone more time. The severity of the shyness may dictate how quickly they bounce back. 

That said it may turn out to be a wonderful dog, with the right training and socialization. As others have said, if you are willing to do whatever it takes to have this baby socialized propperly and trained, and you know what you are *possibly* getting into then get her. Also remember even if a dog is sweet and wouldnt hurt a fly at home does not mean she will be the same in the outside world. Seen my fair share of sweetums that will take your hand outside the house and family...


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I fostered husky puppies from 2.5 weeks to 14 weeks old. It was a very personal lesson in puppy temperament! I'm glad I had that experience because it really helped me hone in on what I wanted in a puppy.

There were four puppies, each with very different personalities. I nicknamed them Goofy (male), Sweety (female), Sassy (female), and Dopey (male). If someone was picking puppies, they'd definitely go for Goofy or Sweety. These two were like Bonnie and Clyde. Goofy was a very bossy and outgoing puppy. His bossiness really showed because he would try to hoard all the food, snapping, growling, hoarding all the new toys, and humping all the puppies and being a brat. Sweety was just a total sweetie and went along with whatever Goofy did. When she wasn't under his influence, she was such a doll. Sassy enjoyed being on her own, completely content with a bully stick. She had a very independent personality. She would be great in an only dog house. My favorite however, was Dopey. When the puppies were old enough to walk and explore, Dopey always hung back. I guess you would call it a "timid" personality, but he was always the last one to explore because he was so busy sleeping. When all the other puppies played, you'd wonder where he was and he'd always be sleeping or leaning next to you. He had that drowsy, laidback personality that really appealed to me. I think most people would overlook him because if they visited, the three others would swarm the newcomer, and there would be Dopey being really slow and hanging back. He was like this more in the younger puppy stage, but he became more active as he got older, but still retained his relaxed nature.

The puppies all got adopted, and I always kept in the back of my mind that I wanted a dog like Dopey. Fast forward to the poodle rescue. I came across Leroy at 12 weeks, and when I took him out to the yard, the instant we interacted, it reminded me of Dopey. When I told my husband about wanting to adopt Leroy, I told him "He's just like Dopey," and he knew exactly what I meant. My friend adopted Dopey and so Leroy hangs out with him. The first time they met, they were the BEST of friends. They truly are brothers from another mother lol. It amazes me how well they get along, and even after hours of playing, they will lay down next to each other gently biting and pawing, and using each other as pillows. They really do have the same personality.

I had visited the poodle rescue when they had four black standard puppies. I was REALLY drawn to the female runt. She was so tiny! She had the timid personality too. The three males immediately rushed up to you, and she hung back. It took her some time to come sniff your hand and show you attention. I was drawn to her but worried about her having socialization problems. I wished I could have interacted with her when she was older, at the time I saw her, she was around 4 weeks. I think 12 weeks is a good age to see what the puppy's personality will be like. Good luck with your puppy prospect, only you and your family will know what is best! My definite personality type is laidback-submissive. 

Some pics of Leroy's brother:


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## Arcticfox (Dec 12, 2011)

Awwww! Those are adorable! I love the idea of a poodle and husky being best friends, and they look gorgeous together!
What's Dopey like now that he's all grown up and with his own family? Did he have any socialization issues? Did he loose his mother fairly early on as well if he was a rescue? That's actually the part I'm most worried about, no mother to teach her all the important puppyhood lessons. 

Oh, and Outwest, probably the only reason I was able to walk away from them is because I volunteer as a dog walker at my local Humane Society, I have lots of practice walking away from sad faces. I never really felt very connected to any of those dogs though, or I would've adopted a rescue by now. Also because most dogs that come through are 100 lbs of pure energy with no training. That's probably part of why I'm drawn to the quiet one.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Have I already recommended "Before you get your puppy" and "After you get your puppy" on the Dog Star Daily website? Lots of helpful advice on puppy socialising, etc. Do be aware that if she is a little shy, you may need to take things more slowly, and that at 14 weeks she will be heading into a fear period, when pups tend to be rather more timid.

Is the breeder taking care of vaccinations? It is important to start them as early as possible, so that you can start taking her out.


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## Arcticfox (Dec 12, 2011)

Oh yes she's had 2 sets of vaccinations already at 12 Weeks. Breeder said she's due for another trip soon, I guess she might have started a little early since they had to be weaned at 4 Weeks. I don't know how doggy immunity works but if it's anything like humans that means they're missing out on some antibodies in mom's milk. 

So if I bring her home at 14 Weeks I should expect her to be fearful? How do I ease her out of that without overwhelming her?
I've read the textbook on dog star daily, which is what started me worrying about socialization to begin with. They keep stressing the socialize by 12 Weeks thing. It makes it sound as though there's no hope left if you haven't done it by then.

I've also begun to look into other breeders in my area just in case. Has anyone heard of Silken Standard Poodles? I contacted them with some questions and I was told they'd be breeding a small standard female to a large mini male sometime next spring. It certainly sounds like an appealing sizebut are there any concerns with breeding across variations like that? Keeping in mind that I don't care at all about conformation, just health and temperament. Pretty is only a bonus.


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## Theo'sMom (Mar 23, 2011)

Theo's father is Dugan from silken. Dugan , a standard, has sired a few poodle forum pups who are also standards. As far as I know they are very healthy, with excellent temperaments and (I know this is less important) really really beautiful. (at least when I see pictures- I only know Theo in person) silken does full health testing, that's why my breeder picked him as a stud, even though he's from a different country,lol.
I don't know about the standard/mini breeding question.
Dr dunbar's socialization timetable scared me too! But I think he says somewhere that he uses this kind of language to push people who don't do socialization at all. After all, if a dog couldn't be socialized after 16 weeks how could rescues go on to become great dogs, and many do.
Walks on the univ. campus are are a great way to socialize. As dr dunbar's says, have people give her treats! :act-up:


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Dugan is the sire to three of our girls and one of our boys (dogs we have or will be breeding). Why don't you consider the next litter at Silken? Toby, the father of this litter, will be Daddy to our next two litters. His parents have been tested to the hilt and Toby's hips have just been certified good by OFA and his eyes have been CERFED. He is clear by parentage of vWd, NE and DM. The girl he has been bred to at Silken might be one of Dugan's daughters. Dugan is an absolute doll! He is a sweet, kind soul and his puppies have lovely temperaments (I can attest to that!) Trillium's girls Betty-Jo and Jenny are his daughters whom I co-own and am breeding right now. Toby has an incredible disposition as well.


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## Arcticfox (Dec 12, 2011)

*picture!*

:angel:
Trying to figure out how to attach a picture I took when I first visited that first breeder... I hope this works.
This is a day or two under 12 weeks, from here it looks like a pretty sizable puppy  She looks small compared to her littermates though, poor girl.


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## Poodlelvr (Mar 13, 2010)

I've been lurking on your thread for a few days. From all you posted I don't think she's an overly timid puppy at all. She may just have let those silly boys rush out, while she hung back to assess the situation. This may be a very intelligent poodle girl. She certainly seems comfortable with you in your photo. You're planning to take her to puppy classes. If this is the dog you want, I think you'll be just fine.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

There's definitely a dog for every person out there. She is super cute! I feel if you are drawn to her, it will work. Dopey the husky is active as any dog. He has really blossomed into a loveable dog. Sometimes the "runt" just takes some time to assess things, but doesn't mean that they have problems. Sassy was actually the "runt" of the litter, and now she is a super active dog and a mascot for a university  - The mother of the four husky pups wasn't very motherly. She wanted to leave her pups and do her own thing as soon as the pups turned 4 weeks. I weaned them off and the mother was fostered by my friend who adopted Dopey. So really the pups were "motherless" till 14 weeks. The mom would stop by every now and then but she did not seem interested in her puppies. Goofy (the bossy one) and the mom got adopted together by another friend. Thank goodness he went with his mom so that she can put him in his place! The only thing I'm disappointed about Dopey is that he sees cats as prey. I know the prey drive is high in the huskies, but I feel he would have grown up to like cats if he stayed at my house longer. My female cat was so brave; she would sit in their crate and just stare at the puppies while they barked at her from the entrance. They were so scared of her lol. Several puppies would immediately roll over onto their backs when they got in her face.

Luckily the little girl you want has her siblings to teach her things. My father acquired a puppy recently at _3 weeks_ of age! Don't ask why or how he got this puppy but THAT is far too young to be going to any home, especially without a mother or littermates. The beauty of puppies is that they have curiosity on their side, and with lots of exposure and positive training, they will succeed. Good luck with your puppy decision!


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## Marlow's Mum (Apr 20, 2011)

Arcticfox said:


> I've also begun to look into other breeders in my area just in case. Has anyone heard of Silken Standard Poodles? I contacted them with some questions and I was told they'd be breeding a small standard female to a large mini male sometime next spring. It certainly sounds like an appealing sizebut are there any concerns with breeding across variations like that? Keeping in mind that I don't care at all about conformation, just health and temperament. Pretty is only a bonus.


My Guinness is from Silken Poodles. he is by far the best dog I've ever had, and has one of the best temperaments of any standard poodle I've met in my area. He is the hugest cuddle monster, and was initially very dog shy. However, at 16 weeks we started going regularly to the dog park, and after the first 4-5 times, he loved all other dogs! He now basically pushes me out the door to the dog park with his big brown eyes.

Guinness' sire is Toby, and his mom is Lucy. He is a medium sized standard - I think he'll finish around 23" and 45 pounds. 

I highly recommend any pup you could get out of Toby - it looks like he throws his awesome temperament to his pups. It looks like Silken's next litter will have some smaller pups in it - I think Liza is a smaller girl.

If you want information about mini to standard breedings, there is a whole thread about it from about a month back that gets really into it. It's a "hot topic" and I generally don't see the need to breed inter-size, but there are a whole lot of opinions out there. 

If you want a smaller standard, just look for a breeding of two smaller standards 

If you want any more info about Silken you can PM me and I'd be happy to answer any questions!


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