# It's been a long day!



## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Hi everyone, 

What a day we have had. This could be a long post but I will do my best to keep it short 😀.

Cooper went to see the specialist today for his CT scan to be done and a consultation. He had to have a general anaesthetic so that they could position his head properly. They also used the time to manipulate his jaw to see how well it works. He definitely has dysplasia however, they have said that surgery isn't the best option as it often causes more issues than it solves. His CT results have been sent to a specialist company to make sure they haven't missed any small details. They are happy that he can use his mouth enough for eating and drinking purposes, he just can't open and close his mouth as easily as he should be able to. It is a condition that will have to be monitored as it can deteriorate over time. 

As if all of this wasn't difficult and stressful enough, the vet hospital raised other concerns about Cooper. They gave him a body condition score of 3/9. He is quite underweight, ribs, spine and hips don't have enough fat on them, not enough muscle and concerns about bone density. They think he has something wrong with him given his history and think it's preventing him from developing as he should. The list of things they have suggested as possibilities seems long. They are recommending scans, endoscopy, blood tests and some medication tests too???? They have listed stomach problems, pancreas, liver, kidneys, thyroid, Cushing's disease, endocrine system disorders that they would like to test for and those are just the things I can remember. He has to stop taking his anti inflammatory medication for his jaw because it can make stomach issues worse and isn't having a big enough impact on his eating to continue.

His bill for today was over £1500 and that was for anaesthesia, CT and bloods. They are estimating £2500 for these other investigations. My insurance covers today's bill however Cooper isn't covered for gastrointestinal or digestive system disorders. He had a problem when doing the toilet 3 days before his insurance started so they removed these from his cover (10 weeks old).

Where does this all end? Cooper has just turned 1 and it has been continued visits to the vet every few weeks since bringing him home. He is scared of the vet, the medication they gave him last night to relax him was too strong which resulted in 6 hours of his heart rapidly beating and his breathing becoming very fast even though he was in a deep sleep. Is it fair for me to keep allowing this? What happens if I get no answers after these tests? I'm drained and I just want Cooper to be happy, feel loved and have fun. It's sad.


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## a2girl (Oct 4, 2020)

I’m so sorry you and Cooper are having such a hard time. Hugs from afar! I wish I could do more than just say that I will keep you both in my thoughts and hope that further testing will yield some attainable solutions.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Poor Cooper. While it helps to get a final diagnosis with all these tests, it may not change how they are treating him. I would talk to the vet and ask them to go from “most likely “ to “least likely “. What’s easier and less invasive.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

My heart aches for you both. I’m so sorry.

I have had to make similar decisions for a dog, but she was a senior. To make them for a baby is beyond overwhelming.

In my case, I eventually stopped testing. I couldn’t put her through that anymore. I focused on making her as comfortable as possible. The only medication I had her on was one with no complicating side effects, which would address the symptoms of two possible diagnoses. I fed her soft food. And I just loved her like crazy.

But knowing when to stop subjecting little Cooper to tests is so much harder, given his age. Then again, as you say, he has already been through so much in such a short time....

I wish there was a perfect answer to any of this for you. 

Big hugs.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

For every test they wish to do, you should ask for if/then scenarios. "If you find X, then we can do Y". I suspect that in many cases, for the "we can do Y" scenarios, the "Y" will be very expensive (and potentially experimental) and will only be a maintenance type situation, not a solution. As PtP said, knowing when to stop is a difficult decision. Giving Cooper the best, most loving life he can have under the circumstances may be the best overall approach.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

You two have been in my thoughts today. Hoping for good things for Cooper.


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## lvanalstyne8 (Oct 17, 2021)

Blesses be I am so sorry for you both I hope you both find peace


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I feel your and Copper's pain, one genetic issue leads to another. I am in that rabbit hole with my girl Beatrice, I don't have insurance for her, but Beatrice has had bilateral knee surgeries before she turned 3,
at age 4 Beatrice was having bouts of incontinence and was diagnosed with kidney and urinary tract disease, 
age 5 Beatrice had three "fatty" tumors removed and an umbical hernia repaired and was diagnosed with Lymphangiosarcoma an incredibly rare terminal cancer, oncologist recommended chemo, radiation etc. I opted not to do any of it only treating symptoms with C.B.D. OIL and Gabapentin.
at 6 Beatrice was diagnosed with Thyriod issues, so she takes Thyoxoline.
At 7 Beatrice needed her rabies vaccine so she could keep coming to work with me, because she is ill I had more testing done.
More issues found wildly high liver counts Alt, ALP and a partial gallbladder mucocele. (blocked). URISDOL made Beatrice like her 9ld self.
Bea got her vaccine because she was on the good side of bad.
Beatrice is 7 1/2, but it's like she is elderly she had a bad turn recently anti nausea meds helped alot.

Not it's not fair when a young animal is chronically ill, but I decided it was better just to manage Bea's symptoms, keep her comfortable, more poking and prodding if can be helped. 
I want to fix it and make it all better, but I know I can't.
All I can offer up as advice is, can you keep Cooper comfortable? I would strive for that, just because you can do all these tests and treatments doesn't mean you should but that is something you should decide for you and Cooper, no one else can or should make you feel that keeping your dog comfortable is wrong.
Virtual hugs
This road sucks but


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## CharlietheToy (Oct 20, 2021)

I am new to the site and haven't read all of your previous posts about Cooper, but you have my sympathies. Our current dog is a one-year-old toy poodle who has so far been very healthy, but our last dog was a Polish Lowland Sheepdog who had many, many health problems. She died suddenly last December at ten and, looking back, I am thankful that we did everything we could for her and that we were in a position to be able to provide her with the care she needed. It was ironic because the supposed hardiness of the breed was one of the reasons we chose a Polish Lowland Sheepdog. We also considered a poodle at that time, but we live in Japan, which is just overrun with little red poodles and I was very wary of breeding issues. In any event, our Sheepdog had severe food allergies that almost killed her before we realized what that problem was and lived for most of her life on prescription food (which thankfully she loved and never got bored with). She also had a congenital heart defect, gall bladder issues, thyroid problems, a chronic bladder infection, two cancer operations and a splenectomy (I'm sure I'm forgetting something). She took so much medicine (including a couple of those Twyla mentions above) she had her own pillbox, but we'd wrap it up in cream cheese or banana, and if I called "medicine!," she'd come running. In her final year, she also began losing her eyesight, but she was still trucking along until what her vet thinks was a blood clot finally brought her down. We are fortunate to have a wonderful vet who combines great skills and good judgment - with a dog like this, there is a lot of judgment involved in deciding what to do, what not to do, etc. I wish you and Cooper the best of luck.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

I am so sorry for Cooper and you. I know that Twyla, PTP and many others have more experience with the excruciating decisions you have to make. Know you are not alone and we are all here and offer support. Sending love


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I am so sorry - very definitely not the news you hoped for. I absolutely agree that it is only worth doing extensive testing if the results are going to enable better treatment or management - very often the treatment is much the same regardless of the cause. It is absolutely understandable that vets want certainty, but you want to protect Cooper from unnecessary distress and target your limited resources. As others have said, it is a decision that is much easier to make for an elderly animal than one who is no more than a puppy, but given the inoperable jaw issue that may in itself prove life limiting I think I might be looking at giving him a few very happy years with limited investigations and mostly palliative treatment, rather than months and months of tests that may not in the end make any difference. Focus on quality of life, and take some time to discuss each step with a sympathetic vet. Nothing has to be decided today.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm so sorry there isn't better news. You all deserve better.

I'm not surprised that the vets are now looking at what else might be causes or effects, When the Ah Ha moment doesn't come easily, they will naturally want to find and fix, if they can. The question is how much can you all live with?

I think I'd try a variation of Skylars suggestion. I'd consider doing some of the testing that's easiest, and then ask which one or two tests would give the biggest impact on his improving if they get a diagnosis or a ruled out.

This just sucks 😢


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## WinnieThePoodle (Sep 1, 2020)

Oh this is incredibly sad news and very stressful for you too. I have no advice to offer but send hugs for comfort and support. You will know what is right for you and Cooper.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

I am so sorry that I haven't replied before now. I decided to enjoy today with Cooper and just have fun and stop worrying for a little bit. It's amazing what a bit of fresh air can do.

I am extremely grateful for everyone's comments, thoughts and advice. I am so sorry for those of you who are or have struggled with health problems in your beautiful dogs too. It really sucks.

I received the report from the hospital this evening. I probably should have waited for that instead of rambling in my original post 🤦‍♀️. Diagnosis is temporomandibular joint dysplasia, no treatment at this moment in time but we have to watch for any deterioration. Also diagnosed with lethargy and hyporexia which they believe is being caused by a systemic disorder. It also states that Cooper has had 4 rectal prolapses without intervention, something my previous vet told me was nothing to worry about. He has been referred to the internal medicine services at the hospital so they are aware of the case if we want to proceed with further investigations. 

My thoughts are that we will do the suggested tests, scans etc but if it all comes back clear and they want to explore further then my answer will be no. We will manage his symptoms as best we can and let him enjoy his life. I think this is the best decision for Cooper.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Oh my I am so sorry to read about all of these upsetting findings. I can only begin to understand how overwhelming and sad all of this is for you. I understand wanting to know what is happening and how to take care of it all, but if findings aren't going to give definitive strategies for improving his health I am not sure that I would do lots of tests, but would probably be more likely to give the best palliative care I could and hope to enjoy as many days as possible.

Peace to you and Cooper no matter which road you decide to travel.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

This is such difficult news, but I think you're making the right choice for Cooper. Sending you two hugs from afar.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

This is heart breaking. I’m so sorry the news weren’t better. 

They have given you so many possibilities, it’s impossible to make plans. I would call them and ask to talk to the vet in charge and list the possible diagnosis in order of highest probability and go from there. I wouldn’t just give the go for all testing, as this is a lot of money and as you go, chances are you will find answers and most of these tests won’t be necessary.

But for now, just hug your little one. He will need you, and you him.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Gentle virtual hugs for you, @Sole0102.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

In my thoughts and prayers...


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

This is a snippet from a second report that I received today. I just wondered about the ACTH test ( addison's). It says it was reported as normal because he was tested for it at the end of June. Is it normal for them to want to repeat that test if a previous result was normal? It also says that these will be the initial investigations. My own vet mentioned yesterday that they may also want to do a colonoscopy and faecal samples too.


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Sole0102 said:


> This is a snippet from a second report that I received today. I just wondered about the ACTH test ( addison's). It says it was reported as normal because he was tested for it at the end of June. Is it normal for them to want to repeat that test if a previous result was normal? It also says that these will be the initial investigations. My own vet mentioned yesterday that they may also want to do a colonoscopy and faecal samples too.


I forgot to attach the picture 🤦‍♀️😂


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I think repeating the ACTH is more caution since it's been a few months. I wouldn't put too much concern in that.

I'm not medically trained but have worked in the human side for many years so I can somewhat understand what I see in the report. It looks like they're considering or have considered liver shunt as a possibility. It does fit some symptoms. It's often congenital, and the type usually found in small breeds often can be successfully corrected.

I'd say they're exploring things that could hinder proper digestion and ability to absorb nutrients.

Remember to take my impression with a grain of salt.

Do you remember if the possibility of a shunt has been brought up before?


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## Sole0102 (Nov 23, 2020)

Rose n Poos said:


> I think repeating the ACTH is more caution since it's been a few months. I wouldn't put too much concern in that.
> 
> I'm not medically trained but have worked in the human side for many years so I can somewhat understand what I see in the report. It looks like they're considering or have considered liver shunt as a possibility. It does fit some symptoms. It's often congenital, and the type usually found in small breeds often can be successfully corrected.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply. They haven't mentioned really specific things more like where they think the problem could be. Pancreas, liver and stomach were the main places mentioned.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Hoping along with you 🙏


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## Porkchop (Sep 2, 2019)

i can’t help you regarding the test results. But I want to say I’m sending love to little Cooper, and you.


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