# Desert Reef or Great Lakes Poodles



## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

I prefer Desert Reef. Testing, diversity, showing. A bit skeptical of Great Lakes and their Moyens. Did not say how they were bred - standard x mini ? Or true (European mostly) Moyen stock.
I am not the best person for evaluating breeders - hopefully Rose n Poos and others will chime in.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Welcome to the forum. Look forward to following your journey on getting your new companion


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

What exactly are you looking for? The programs are rather different. Desert Reef is a traditionally focused standard breeder: mostly mainstream colors, good show record, AKC Breeder of Merit. Great Lakes specializes in multi-colored dogs in the miniature and moyen size range and doesn't have the same show record.


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## Heartland2022 (8 mo ago)

I would be more inclined to go with Desert Reef. Mostly for all the reasons cowpony outlined. Breeder of Merit is always nice to see from the AKC. I actually looked this breeder up just now she looks current. Then again it's all in what you're looking for.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Desert Reef was on my short list when I was looking for a poodle back in 2015, but like so many breeders, she never got back to me, so I moved on. 

@Asta's Mom where do you see that Karen of Desert Reef breeds for genetic diversity? If anything, I would think the other breeder who is crossing varieties would have much more genetic diversity, which is something I value more of these days. Yes, Desert Reef's dogs are more attractive in conformation, but I'm all about the genetic diversity to give a dog the best chance at a longer life (along with ALL appropriate health testing as well, of course).

Also, being a breeder of merit on AKC is not a great measure of quality. I have known of what I would consider mills that got that designation. It's like saying a dog is AKC registered. Not a high standard. However, from everything I have heard about the way Karen raises her dogs (from people who have known her and worked with her), she is highest quality in the way she raises her dogs.


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## Heartland2022 (8 mo ago)

MaizieFrosty said:


> Desert Reef was on my short list when I was looking for a poodle back in 2015, but like so many breeders, she never got back to me, so I moved on.
> 
> @Asta's Mom where do you see that Karen of Desert Reef breeds for genetic diversity? If anything, I would think the other breeder who is crossing varieties would have much more genetic diversity, which is something I value more of these days. Yes, Desert Reef's dogs are more attractive in conformation, but I'm all about the genetic diversity to give a dog the best chance at a longer life (along with ALL appropriate health testing as well, of course).
> 
> Also, being a breeder of merit on AKC is not a great measure of quality. I have known of what I would consider mills that got that designation. It's like saying a dog is AKC registered. Not a high standard. However, from everything I have heard about the way Karen raises her dogs (from people who have known her and worked with her), she is highest quality in the way she raises her dogs.


How in the world do they satisfy all these requirements for that program as a mill? I've heard this before about the breeder of merit program. I wouldn't think they would take the time and effort to do all that. Costing time and money to make fast money.


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Okay, maybe "mill" wasn't the proper term. But I still think these requirements are VERY easy to attain. Just have to pay $$$, but then you get that "special" AKC designation. But it's not difficult to do at all, imho.


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## Caseybrjs (7 mo ago)

cowpony said:


> What exactly are you looking for? The programs are rather different. Desert Reef is a traditionally focused standard breeder: mostly mainstream colors, good show record, AKC Breeder of Merit. Great Lakes specializes in multi-colored dogs in the miniature and moyen size range and doesn't have the same show record.


looking for breeders who produce sound dogs and have a solid puppy raising program. We have always allowed the breeder to pick the best dog for us based on temperament, drive, confidence etc. We want a companion dog first and foremost but would be doing obedience, rally, off leash work, possibly dock diving and we just take our dogs everywhere and do a lot of training with them.


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