# when choosing a puppy is genetic testing more important or inbreeding coefficiant



## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

What is included in "all the tests?" Which variety poodle are you looking into?


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## sarahjd (Aug 10, 2021)

Litter A estimate COI for puppy 12% line breeding share same sire
Dam
NeWs(Neonatal Encephalopathy with siezures (carrier)
VWD von willebrands (clear)
hips (excellant)
thyroid (excellant)
eyes normal macrothrombocytopenia (normal) 
PRA progressive retinal atrophy (clear

Sire
NeWS Neonatal encephalopathy (normal)
PRA (normal)
VWD Clear)
PRA clear
hips (excellent)
eyes (excellent)

Litter B
Dam COI 17%
CERF eye disease (normal)
VWD (clear)
DM degenerative myopathy (clear)
gangliosidosis (vision loss) clear
PRA clear
PENHIP (mild)

sire COI 5%
VWD normal
DM normal/clear
NeWs clear
PRA clear
Hips excellent


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## curlflooffan (Mar 27, 2020)

Its not a practice that I am personally a fan of but I think its really hard to estimate how that will impact an individual puppy.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Are these standard poodles? If so, I would also ask about % Wycliffe (and do a bit of googling to learn about what that means). Are they using betterbred or some other genetic test/program for diversity?


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## Pavie (May 4, 2021)

From my knowledge of genetics, I would say genetic testing is more important. The issue with inbreeding is the risk of getting two recessive genes, but if you already know what genes they have, then it shouldn't be a problem. But you'll need to make sure that the genetic testing is done thoroughly, if there are some genes not tested on, then there's the uncertainty again.


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## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

Sometimes inbreeding actually keeps diseases and disorders out of a line that otherwise could be introduced by having high genetic variability. It’s also a way to breed reliable traits and is pretty much why we have “breeds” at all. So COI isn’t end all and be all. I would probably focus on genetic tests over COI


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Not every bad trait has a test. Knowing the lines is important too. " the stud was chosen for her due to contract agreement of her first litter." This is interesting. Is the bitch co-owned with another breeder? If so, I'd be curious to know what that breeder's experience is.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

What exactly are the pennhip results? A dog with mild hip dysplasia should not be bred, but perhaps you are misinterpreting the results. Pennhip is more complicated than OFA and it could easily be misleading.

With the other breeder I personally feel that this line breeding is awfully close. My dog is line bred but he does not share such close relatives. I would be hesitant and would consider this litter only if these are miniature or toy poodles and only if this is a breeder that has an established line going back many generations that have all tested clear on health.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Line breeding has been used for literally hundreds of years to set particular traits. This is true for all animals that are deliberately bred by humans. People who do it should be really knowledgeable about the breed and the line. Phaz is absolutely correct with her statement that line breeding (or even in breeding) is what created different breeds of dogs (and other animals).


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## Fluffy Poodle 4 (Nov 29, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> I would be hesitant and would consider this litter only if these are miniature or toy poodles and only if this is a breeder that has an established line going back many generations that have all tested clear on health.


Slightly off topic, but really curious why you would consider this litter only for mini or toy poodles and not standards? Does it have something to do with the litter sizes (mini and toy litters being smaller=fewer options) or less bottle-neck breeding done in these sizes (aka greater diversity over all, no idea if this is true or not) or something else completely???? 
This whole thread has me curious though and I will definitely keep following it.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Fluffy Poodle 4 said:


> Slightly off topic, but really curious why you would consider this litter only for mini or toy poodles and not standards? Does it have something to do with the litter sizes (mini and toy litters being smaller=fewer options) or less bottle-neck breeding done in these sizes (aka greater diversity over all, no idea if this is true or not) or something else completely????
> This whole thread has me curious though and I will definitely keep following it.


You are correct that it has to do with the diversity. Minis and toys have much greater gene pool diversity present than standards. Standards also can have more health issues that cannot be screened for with genetic testing. A standard poodle will generally have a higher base COI due to bottlenecks in the breed.


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## tennysonsmom (Sep 29, 2021)

I know this is an old thread but it was interesting to read different perspectives. Half siblings are very close, but in my experience line breeding is still very common.


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