# Curious...



## DivinityPoodles (Jan 23, 2012)

I have read many times on this forum about Cesar Milan and all the euphemisms used about him. 

What is the problem with him? And before anyone rips into me, I am curious about your opinions not looking to be attacked for asking.

Thanks.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Oh boy, are you suuure you want to start this thread? lol

I personally like him, I think he has done a lot for dogs and has saved some dogs from situations where they would have been euthanized. I like that he keeps dogs with him that he doesn't think would do well in a family situation, still giving them a place instead of being put to sleep.

HOWEVER! I do NOT think normal people, or many people _at all _should practice his training methods on aggressive dogs (or certain specific situations.) He can see the body language and the average person cannot. There's a reason there's a '*Don't do this, you dumb idiot at home*,' message after ever commercial.

Yes, I like Cesar, but I cringe and roll my eyes when people practice his training methods and don't know what the heck they're doing.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

I like a lot about him except one REALLY BIG THING.

He doesn't teach the dog an acceptable and safe thing to do before he ends the bad behavior. This creates a lot of stress on the dog that isn't necessary.

I have huge respect for him as he is very skilled. But watching people trying to copy and "dominating" their poor dog that just needs a little obedience traing makes me feel ill.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Oooh - there is a saying in the UK that used to be written in large letters on all fireworks - "Light blue touch paper and retire three paces!" You have been warned!

CM is a self taught trainer, with excellent timing, great charisma, and a huge PR machine. He gives some good advice - particularly about dogs needing exercise - but his training methods are based upon utterly outdated misconceptions about how dogs behave - "Dominance", "Alpha" being "leader of the pack". He uses coercive, forceful methods such as choking the dog, pinning the dog down, poking and pinching the dog, that are both unnecessary, and proven to often make fearfulness and aggression worse. Before the show was first aired the pilot episode was sent to a number of professional trainers and dog behavioural experts for evaluation, all of whom stated that the methods were outdated, potentially harmful to both dogs and owners, and that the show should not be broadcast ... the rest is history! 

CM's methods are often excused on the grounds that he works with "red zone" dogs, that would otherwise face euthanasia. Most qualified behaviourists work successfully with such dogs - and none would endorse his more extreme methods. He was warned before a recent UK tour that using many of the methods in his shows on stage in the UK would render him liable for prosecution by the RSPCA. In more recent years he has started to embrace reward based methods as well, but unfortunately the damage has been done, and all the early shows continue to be aired worldwide.

But he is an international celebrity, so he MUST be right - right?!


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## DivinityPoodles (Jan 23, 2012)

Thanks for your answers so far. And thanks for the warnings lol... but I'm wading in as I would genuinely like to know what people think. 

I, too, like Cesar. But just as I don't think all people should train or own 
dogs, I don't think that all people should use his methods. 

I do believe that for a great many dogs that the 'Alpha' and pack leader is a very realistic and necessary part of their lives. And if their humans are not going to provide the leadership, the dog will. I have had very dominant dogs and can honestly say that if they had been allowed to act the boss, all of our lives would have been a living hell and I have no doubt that at least one of them would have been PTS for his behaviour. Instead, and this was long before I had ever heard of Cesar, our dog was taught that he was 'beta' and he was fantastic as a guardian and pet. I trusted him with my very young children and trusted him to take care of them. He was not a poodle and was anything but a soft dog, was not food motivated in the least and had a true work ethic. For him, even playing fetch was his job and he LOVED working... which is why I have a very difficult time with the 'all positive' and softer methods of training and can see a true need for different methods. And quite frankly, this particular dog would have happily lived within a Cesarlike household... he did live in that kind of household. And now so do my poodles but things are adapted for them. 

It's not a one size fits all kind of deal... and after watching several Cesar shows, I will say that his message is pretty straight forward.... don't be stupid and not exercise your dog and expect them to behave, don't treat them as humans... they aren't and are not supposed to be, do give your dog structure and consistency, usually it is the human that is the true cause of a dogs problems or at least contributing to the dog not getting over their issues. 
I just saw an episode where Cesar raised puppies, granted he chose medium level dogs (energy and disposition) but he did NOT treat those puppies the same way as he treats an adult dog that is completely out of control. Seemed pretty straight forward to me.
There are dogs on the show that I would have euthanized for the damage they had done to people or other animals but Cesar did not even suggest it. 

Actually a friend of a friend of mine has a dog that has serious aggression issues and has actually caused one of his owner's to get 60 stitches from one attack (and that's not the only attack) and they are dying to try Cesar. They have gone to vets, trainers, behaviourists etc etc. The dog is seriously psychotic and they want to have children... I shudder to think of the results. They are afraid of their own dog but don't admit it verbally. Personally, I honestly believe this dog would be better off euthanised or rather everyone around him would be and just pray that they don't have kids with that dog around.


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