# Frisco ! ( for fluffyspoo )



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)




----------



## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

OMG! Lol! Look at him JUMP! Maybe my girl could look that muscley if she wasn't such a sausage dog! HA! He's adorable, and looks SO sweet! Thanks for sharing his pictures!


----------



## mercymoon (Aug 29, 2008)

He is lovely, I am partial to bulldogs <3


----------



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Here is a video of them playing 

I just got this yesterday 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf2Eqic2Cwo


----------



## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

Roxy, I'm curious about something. What is the difference between an Am Staff and an APBT? They look alike to me, but I think I've been seeing a lot of mixes, and not really purebred dogs of either breed (if they are actually different breeds, that is).


----------



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Marian said:


> Roxy, I'm curious about something. What is the difference between an Am Staff and an APBT? They look alike to me, but I think I've been seeing a lot of mixes, and not really purebred dogs of either breed (if they are actually different breeds, that is).


Well this is a complex , complicated question lol 

When I first started to look into the breed over 10 years ago I thought they where the same. But as I kept looking at pedigrees and meeting amstaffs and real apbt in person I can see the differences. 

The first registry that registered apbt is UKC , ADBA then came into light. AKC opened up their registry to them as apbt in 1936. The breeders did not want pit in the name so they changed it to staffordshire terriers. Later AKC open their studbooks to the smaller english cousin Staffordshire bull terrier. So they changed the name again to american stffordshire terriers. 

That being said way back in 1936 they where apbts. UKC will allow you to register your amstaff as an apbt but akc's studbook is closed and you can not register them as amstaffs. 

Amstaffs breeders have taken a lot of the fire and spirit out the breed. many do not want dog aggressiveness so this has been bred out. ( not saying that there are no DA amstaffs but I know a breeder who put her dog down AKC CH because he was to much for her) From my take of it they want it bred out. Their Drive is not the same either. AKC amstaffs where bred for show only and companionship. While UKC apbt where being bred to fight still and work plus show. ADBA dogs are close to the original apbt ( more of the working type of the breed) They where bred for fighting rarely showing ( so looks don't matter with the people breeding them) 

Typically a true apbt dogs not come in blue and diluted colors too often. The gene pool of amstaffs is small ( due to studbook closing) so mutations occurred hence why you see a lot of amstaffs in blue , blue fawn. If you see a UKC apbt that is blue 99% chance AKC amstaff is in the pedigree. Game dogs or adba rarely come in blue ( it does happen because of genetics and how the dog is bred these blue adba dogs are dark dark blue ) 

A UKC show dog is usually POS ( pit or staff) they will have amstaff and pure apbt in the pedigree. There are some UKC show dogs that are pure apbt and you can tell the difference right away. 

UKC dogs are longer in body , they are also usually taller than amstaffs. They come in all colors , the heads on UKC dogs ( bred right anyways lol) are longer at the muzzle they don't have a lot of top padding on the skull. The ukc dogs that have short muzzles and padding ( have amstaff in pedigree) ( again you will see some pure apbt with shorter muzzles but the standard calls for a longer muzzle) 

AKC amstaffs have shorter backs, they are a tad smaller. Can come in any color as long as nose is black. ( all white or have I think 80% is not desired) So this means no red nose amstaffs , which do occur still in the breed. UKC can have red noses. The terrier type will have a similar head to a UKC apbt ( bred right) the buller amstaff will have more of a bulkier head. Some have over done cheek muscles. Over the years many breeders thought that a shorter muzzle is what the standard calls for , so they bred shorter muzzles and a lot have so much padding on the top skull. The planes of the head are not parallel as they are in a well bred apbt. 

ADBA dogs are the smallest most high drive dogs of the 3. They are not bred for looks so they look different depending on the lines. They usually are more DA. The gene pool of ADBA dogs is much wide spread. you will see dogs from 35lbs to 75lbs. 

So basically they are all cousins lol but a ADBA and pure apbt look different from an amstaff. IMO once you start to breed to a different standard and different type you now have a different breed type. Or should I say sub-breed lol Ukc breeders still mix in amstaff. 

Ex a AKC show GSD is NOTHING like a East german working GSD. Its like night and day when looking at them same breed different type. 

Here is a link that will help you UKC standard 

American Pit Bull Terrier Network Pit Bull Encyclopedia A to Z about the APBT 

they compare amstaffs to UKC dogs ( click on all of the yellow links on the left example head, head study 2, and 3 etc) 

Look at Caragan kennels dogs here 

CARAGAN KENNEL Pit Bulls specializing in Red Nose & Black* American Pit Bull Terrier breeders
Take note of the heads on most of her dogs they have a nice length in the muzzle. Take note also in their body length. Her dogs are pure UKC apbt 

Another mostly pure apbt breeder 
http://www.pittrpatter.com/apbtfemales.html


Here is a breeder with POS ( pit or staff) UKC dogs 
http://www.caligirlkennels.com/
http://www.bluhavenapbts.com/


take note of still long bodies but look at the heads ( shorter muzzles ) They are also diluted colors like blue , blue fawn. 

Now here is a AKC amstaff breeder 
Castle Rock AmStaffs
take note of shorter backs on most of her dogs the planes on 
Epicure - American Staffordshire Terriers
DotCom Amstaffs - Home Page

Her dogs head planes are parallel on most of her dogs note shorter backs on some ( i like her amstaff Maddy she is pretty I like her because her head is how its supposed to be lol) 

Castle Rock AmStaffs

Perfect picture on how the planes are not parallel too much padding on top skull and short muzzle


----------



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

o I forgot to add some ADBA dogs check these out 

TATONKA KENNELS BROOD BITCHES
American Pit Bull Terrier - Tom Garner Kennels
Iron Dog Kennel


----------



## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

Wow, I didn't know I was going to make you have to work to answer that question! LOL Thanks very much, this is very interesting!


----------



## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Marian said:


> Wow, I didn't know I was going to make you have to work to answer that question! LOL Thanks very much, this is very interesting!


It was not really work at all this is what I know from years of research and loving the breed.

I forgot to add the last two dogs are amstaffs and where bred by sierra kennels. They tend to breed the shortest muzzles I have seen in the breed. Its sad really because overall the dogs conformation is usually A+++ she just needs to fix the heads lol

here is another great illustrated study of amstaff heads


----------



## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

They still look alike to me - LOL! I will have to look more. It would help to see one of each in person, side by side. Thanks!


----------

