# Help me keep my rescue



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

It sounds like your toy has a very forward personality with her normal "guys." Two status seeking bitches may not get along well, and this could be part of what is happening here. In feral and wild canids dominant females have little tolerance for each other, while males are generally very deferential towards them. "Bossy bitches" are more likely to have better control over resources related to reproduction. Dogs who want the chance to mate these bitches know their approach has to be careful in timing and manner. 

It may also simply be a matter of the new dog being anxious or fearful. Although you say she doesn't seem to have been abused certainly she has been through a lot (being taken from her old home, in a foster situation and now to you). She may also simply not feel too well since she is so underweight (and maybe malnourished as well). 

Not being there to read the situation myself I can't really say which issue applies. I think you need to make a decision based on the welfare of all of the dogs. Your toy is potentially in danger and certainly experiencing stress right now. If you can keep her safe and try to manage carefully supervised interaction to see if the situation will settle down I would give it a try. If you think the only way to manage the situation over the life span of these dogs is to quarantine them from each other then that doesn't sound like an effective long term solution to me. It would be a terrible situation if someone escaped their safe zone when no one was around.

I hope you find a good, safe and clear solution to your dilemma.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Boy, do I know what you are feeling. I have dealt with the same issue with my rescue Stella. I know she was never abused, but crated a lot due to the owner not being able to trust her with her toy poodle. If anything happens that she gets excited, or that she doesn't understand, her first thought is to fight Carley... Carley is the bigger of the two and does not fight back and that is a huge help to me. But because of this I have to always be on my toes, never leave them together alone ect. I have had Stella 10 months now and it has gotten much better, I thought it just may be behind us and then Carley got very sick and Stella jumped on her twice before I put her in the crate to care for Carley. I am guessing your Anna is doing the same thing, it is the excitement that is getting her going. I have read a lot about it and everyone has said this is something very hard to break! If I had a toy poodle, I would really consider re-homing her. I know that is hard, but a toy can be hurt so much easier. My guess is that it will get worst before it gets better, as she gets more comfortable in your home ect. I wish you the best of luck. So sorry!

http://www.poodleforum.com/23-gener...yone-know-how-stop-redirected-aggression.html


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## Ladywolfe (Jan 11, 2012)

Thank you both for the great advice. I am separated from my husband, but we are living right across the street from each other. For me, home is where the dogs are.  He, of course, has a home completely equipped for dogs, large or small, as that is where I lived prior to here. He has offered to take the toy, and that may be the way it goes, as I can see her any moment I want for as long as I wish at any time (yep, we share house keys...hahaha). Yes, escapes from a safe zone, as much as I would like to say that it would never happen, are always a "possibility" that makes me nervous. The last thing we need in this home is one more nervous female for the dogs to read. Oh, and please realize, the rescue knew I had a toy dog, and they did try to evaluate her and did feel that she would be safe with a toy dog................I did have this as a concern, but you can never be 100% sure as a rescue or a rescuer, what behavior may change as a dog becomes adapted to a new, permanent home. As Anna gets good food & supplements she has been changing on a near-daily basis. Originally, she just didn't have enough energy to really even have much personality. The first time I fed her, she actually laid down because she was too tired to stand and eat (yes, I elevate her bowl). She is fully vetted, but only weighed 38lbs.....now up to 41 at this time.

She is the same height as my boy, and he weighs 62lbs. She will be spayed, but I really want to wait until she has a bit of weight and rebuilt muscle first. I am hoping (but not really counting/relying on it) that her behavior may change a little after spaying?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Carley's Mom, I am so glad you weighed in here. You have a much better understanding of what Ladywolfe has to think about than I do. 

Ladywolfe, I am not sure that Anna's behavior will be super different after she is spayed since she has been under the influence of her hormones for so long and has had at least one litter I guess since you refer to her daughter. I would imagine that her behaviors should level without her ovarian hormone influence, but I don't think you should expect anything like the flip of a switch. It also takes time for hormone levels to drop down after a neuter or spay since the sex hormones are steroids and lipid soluble (stored in fat). I know she is skinny right now, but as she gains weight (do agree about waiting for better health before surgery) she will store some reserve of hormones in fat tissues. Also even in a spayed or neutered dog (or cat) the adrenal glands are a source of low levels of sex hormones (both male and female types).

Maybe your husband should take the toy girl across the street for the time being. This way you will be able to relax a little. If you are calmer it could help you get a better read on Anna's true personality as it emerges over the next few weeks.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Well, however you choose to do it, I think that you have to plan upon the toy and her never living in the same house again. And even with that, you are always going to have a dog who "kills the joy" in your home...

If it were me, I think that I would return her to the rescue, and let them find a good adult only, single dog home for her, because that is where she would have her best life, and your dogs would have their best life without her...

It wouldn't be "giving up" on her - IMHO it would be doing the right, and selfless thing for everyone involved


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

If your husband is willing to take the toy and you and the toy will be fine with that, it could work . Stella now knows that she should not do this, I see her stop herself all the time, but it is her first thought. I take both of Stella's back legs " like picking up a wheel barrel," start moving backwards so that she can't bite me. She is not thinking when she does this , she is just reacting. When she realizes what is going on, she stops. I have gotten very good at this, calm and quick, so far no harm has really been done. But your first few times, you may forget and yell and pull at her collar, that is what I did. It works so much better to get the hind legs and not say a word. When I get them apart, I firmly tell Stella , "NO!" and put her in the crate. She has caught on that she is doing wrong and she does try to catch herself so things are getting better. If Carley had been fighting back and coming at Stella as I was trying to pull her away, I would have been forced to re-home Stella. Good Luck, keep us posted.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

I fostered for a long time, and many many dogs. I loved every one of my fosters....but....my personal dogs happiness always had to come first. Having had a toy dog killed by a neighbors large dog I know how quickly it can happen. I too would send the dog back to the rescue because I simply could not displace my own dog or put them in danger. I feel there is a perfect home for almost any dog, but your home may not be the right one for this dog. The needs of your toy must come first.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

All I have to say is that you have the ideal living arrangement. I'd love to live across the street from my husband. Lol


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## Ladywolfe (Jan 11, 2012)

You are all the BEST!! I did it.....I called the rescue and left a message. I think it is best for everyone......much as I hate to admit it.......I have to be truthful no matter what I want. Just like with children, for me, it is "the best interests of the dogs" first. As Anna is perfect in every other way, I think her best life is as an only dog and pampered and loved...............she is a total cuddler and deserves the best. In an only dog household, she could be held all day long. It looks like everyone's calm is priceless and just won't work with her in the pack. I intend to return her for her best interests as well as for my toy poodle. I tried, but it just didn't work and I don't think it is fair to Anna to keep her a long time and then rehome again. I will just consider my adoption fee a contribution to this lovely dog's care and future life.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Maybe the rescue will have another come along that will fit better with your pack. I'm sure the rescue will be very understanding. She is a beautiful dog, Im sure she will find just the right home. Kudos to you!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Good for you! I can only imagine how difficult this is for you but you are doing the best thing for everyone!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I am sure this is hard for you, but I do think it is probably best all around for all of the dogs. You are probably right that Anna would be best as an only dog.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I agree, you are doing what is best for everyone. I sometimes think Stella would have been better with a single dog family too. I know for sure Carley would prefer not to have her here. But she is so happy and I do give my dogs the best life, I just could not take the chance on a re-home. We will continue to work on it and hope it continues to get better with each passing month.


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## PoodleFoster (May 25, 2013)

Ladywolfe said:


> She will be spayed,
> 
> HELLO
> I think you are doing the right thing by sending her back to rescue. I do have a question, why did the rescue not spay her before adoption? just wondering.
> Good luck


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

PoodleFoster said:


> Ladywolfe said:
> 
> 
> > She will be spayed,
> ...


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## Ladywolfe (Jan 11, 2012)

Well, Anna was returned today. And, yes; I would not have wanted to see her anesthetized for any surgery at her current underweight condition. She still has a ways to go, as far as her health. The rescue did check my references well, knew that I was not a breeder, knew from my vet that all my dogs are altered, and we had discussed where and when she would probably be in condition to be spayed.

There was another couple on the wait list, but if they do not take her, I thought I might give a heads-up to anyone in NE Ohio who may be interested in an otherwise perfect young lady, who walked like a dream on a leash, understood English exceedingly well, had no food aggression, 100% housebroken, extremely affectionate; otherwise well behaved in a house (no chewing or garbage/counter surfing); otherwise also very calm and got along wonderfully with my big standard boy. She was found via a Petfinder ad and will likely be relisted under "Anna"

For anyone without small animals, she would be a total gem and was destined to be a complete beauty, gorgeous bright white, with a little weight gain and some muscle built back up.

I hated giving her back, but I definitely feel she deserves all the best, and could not get it in a house where she wasn't allowed to "eat the bouncing toy poodle". She would be a totally wonderful therapy dog.....she loves and cuddles any person she meets, male or female.

I think I did the right thing, hard as it was, because she is adorable and anyone would totally fall in love with her near instantly. What I discovered is, I have a weird pack dynamic in my house, and I will just leave it as "perfect as is". 

You all helped me to make this decision and to show major respect to Carley's Mom for her hard work and dedication to her own "odd pack dynamic".

Again, we will miss her, but wish her all best luck and love. Thank you to you all!!! Again you are all THE BEST!!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I know how difficult that was but I also think you made the best decision to ensure the safety of your toy. Anna sounds like she will be a lovely dog in the right home.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I am glad you feel "good" about your decision (quotes reflect that I doubt you really feel good, but you did good for all the dogs concerned, even if you feel bad right now).

I think the dynamic of your pack is fine. I also think Anna will be fine. It just was going to be very hard to make it all be fine under one roof. As Carley's Mom has pointed out so well there is a lot of work in adding a new dog to an existing group. Even when the new dog is a puppy and you work on making it the dog you want it is hard to change the balances in the population.

You will be fine too!


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