# Furious and concerned!!!



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

After reccommending to every puppy buyer for years to follow the Jean Dodds protocol for vaccinations, and following it myself for years, I had a pretty upsetting experience yesterday at the vet with my Pearly Girl.

I follow the Jean Dodds protocol TO THE LETTER! TO THE STINKING LETTER! So today we take Pearl for her final core puppy shot. The girl at the desk says " You are here with Pearl for her puppy shot, and you do not do lepto, correct?" and I said that is right. She asks about rabies and I said no, that we'd come back in a couple of months for it. After waiting in the car for more than an hour, the vet comes to the door to tell me we can bring Pearl in. We get into the exam room, and she asks what I want and I tell her, a repeat of the last two shots and NO LEPTO, and she sends the tech for the syringe and meanwhile examines Pearl, raving about how beautiful and regal she is. We discuss rabies, and she agrees waiting is wise. So, end of visit, I carry Pearl to the car and bring in my purse. The waiting room is jammed full of people and their pets. The vet very quietly says "I gave her lepto" and I said WHAT??!! And she says "I am so sorry. But I gave her lepto". I proceed to put my head on the counter and cry. She keeps saying "I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry" and I finally said "You need to stop saying you are sorry. The damage is done- she received the shot! For seven years we have not given ANYONE lepto and I have followed a minimal vaccine protocol. Do you think if you have compromised this dog's immune system, that I'm sorry is going to help her or me?" So, I am weeping and so livid I could have punched her, and she charges me the full price for the visit and the shot. I was so emotional, I was not thinking and paid her, but Bruce is going to call on Monday and tell them how disgusted he was that they'd have the gall to charge me after making such a gigantic mistake. I am still shaking and still so upset, I cannot even tell you. I will be shopping for a new vet on Monday!!!!!!!!!!

The vet did phone me after I got home to apologize again, and took complete ownership of the error, gave me her cell number to call days or night if I had any concerns about Pearl, and after me saying something, is reversing the charges for the visit. I told her that I appreciate all of that, but that will not help if her immune system is compromised.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

I don't even know what to say right now. Still absorbing it all. You've heard "I'm sorry" enough. I sure wish there was some way to take it back.....


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## sweetheartsrodeo (Sep 19, 2012)

wow... I don't think that there are even words to express how upset I would be. I mean you are right the damage is done. I don't understand why they were not double checking...


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

I have no words.

Saying a prayer for you and Pearl.


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## Nicofreako (Aug 19, 2013)

I don't know what to say except I completely understand your anger - and how helpless you feel. There is no way to correct the situation.
Sadly, these days, vets are graduating that have no clue about holistic health, either animal or human.
Try to take a deep breath, look for another vet, and visualize the best health for Pearl. It's not much, but it is something you can do. *Hugs*


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

I know you're upset, but what about this: that is one vet who is never going to make that mistake again. Many vets wouldn't even have owned up to it, so I think she is brave and has integrity. If you go to a new vet, you will have to go through it all again and your current vet probably had the worst day of her year yesterday and probably couldn't even sleep because of it. So if I were you, I'd stick with her. Just my opinion.


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## DizzyIzzy (Mar 23, 2014)

I am horrified that this happened. I am wondering if you can still buy vaccines from feed stores. We used to vaccinate our own dogs, no prescription required, but it's been a few years. You can take the box information to your vet for the pets file.


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## sweetheartsrodeo (Sep 19, 2012)

Indiana said:


> I know you're upset, but what about this: that is one vet who is never going to make that mistake again. Many vets wouldn't even have owned up to it, so I think she is brave and has integrity. If you go to a new vet, you will have to go through it all again and your current vet probably had the worst day of her year yesterday and probably couldn't even sleep because of it. So if I were you, I'd stick with her. Just my opinion.


I had not thought of it that way. You are right, she was obviously feeling horrible and guilty. She will probably be double and triple checking from now on...


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I am very sorry that your vet made this mistake. You will have to think about whether you can trust her again.

I would like to point out that many dogs have received the lepto vaccine and have lived healthy lives. Not every single one had their health compromised by this vaccine. Since your dogs had such healthy parents, chances are Pearl will do fine, especially since you will not let this happen again. As hard as it is, try to think positive thoughts that if any dog can survive this vaccine and be healthy, it would be one of yours.

It would not hurt to look for a vet that shares your opinion on vaccinations.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

This is awful. I can imagine how you feel. Knowing what you know, there is not much I can't think of to make you feel better other than, the good news is that she did not have an immediate reaction to it. And since you have been following the protocol, the puppy has not been bombarded previously with vaccines so she is still ahead of the game. Also, there are homeopathic remedies you can try, like thuja, which is supposed to help with damage from vaccines. I hope Pearl is ok.

I follow JD's vaccine protocol as well and the only way I can do it is to purchase the vaccines myself. 

pr


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

Indiana said:


> I know you're upset, but what about this: that is one vet who is never going to make that mistake again. Many vets wouldn't even have owned up to it, so I think she is brave and has integrity. If you go to a new vet, you will have to go through it all again and your current vet probably had the worst day of her year yesterday and probably couldn't even sleep because of it. So if I were you, I'd stick with her. Just my opinion.


I would be upset too. My Lily had a horrible, life threatening vaccine reaction and we now follow Dodd's protocol too. I switched vets because my first vet was unwilling to follow it, and I am very much the owner who has a thousand questions and a plan for what I want before I walk in the door! And I expect it to be followed and respected. 

But I think Indiana's perspective is worth considering. If this vet is someone you have trusted up until now, and has been willing to work with you, I would also think twice before switching. I'm not making excuses for the error, but her honesty, coupled with the fact that it was clearly a very busy clinic,would lead me to believe this is a woman who meant well and was for some reason overwhelmed on that particular day, leading to a lapse in judgement. There may have been emergencies that had to be dealt with that could have contributed to the chaos, and the long wait time. The most skilled, wonderful clinician can still make a mistake if the circumstances are right. Human error happens. 

Now, if it is a regular occurrence that the clinic is always chaotic, and mistakes are common, and you don't have a good feeling about her in general.....then that's a whole different story. But if you liked and trusted her up until now, I would be inclined to stick with her. She will be doubly vigilant around your dogs for sure in future.

That's just my two cents, for whatever it's worth. You have to do what you think is right in the end. Sending you warm thoughts across cyberspace. Nothing worse than when we think our baby's safety has been compromised :afraid:


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I understand being terribly upset about this but, I too agree with Indiana. It would have been one thing if she hid the mistake and just pretended it didn't happen by not putting it on the bill, but she was honest. I rather doubt she will ever make that mistake again and if you have trusted the practice over many years, why switch to someone who you have to build a new relationship with.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

What's done is done. I agree, she could have not told you, so I at least give her credit to owning up to her mistake! I'm just sorry it had to be Pearl it happened to! I personally do all of Molly's vaccinations myself (except rabies, which by law has to be done by a Vet). I found most Vet routinely give the 6 in 1 anyway, so buying my shots myself insures I get just what I want Molly to have!


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

I am furious for you and your sweet girl, and hope with all I have that it does not affect her negatively. And I hear what Lily and others are saying about the vet. To me, I would have to ponder was it a real accident, and if so, how many other medication mistakes do they make and what are their internal practice controls, vs. could it have been an "accident on purpose" as it's called, by a vet who has wholly different beliefs from yours.

Sorry to sound paranoid, and I'm so glad at least the doctor was honest after the fact, but if you stay with this practice I would require they bring in unopened bottles of vaccine into the room before drawing into the syringe in the future--and I would personally read the labels myself. Even if the vet supports the protocol, who's to say the vet tech pulling out the vials got the message?


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## Rhett'smom (Sep 23, 2012)

Wow!!!! Such a terrible thing to have happen. There are no words to express the thoughts that are going thru my mind. You will follow what your heart and gut tell you to do. I am thankful nothing bad happened. All that you can do is think about what to do in the future. Hard choices are coming. Just know we are all here to listen.


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## Newport (Jul 16, 2014)

Streetcar's suggestion of seeing the vials yourself and having them drawn up in front of you is a good one. This vet who made this mistake and was honest about it might be very willing to do this for you. 

Medication errors are unfortunately very common for both humans and dogs. RN's follow 10 rights of medication administration (right patient, right medication, right dose, etc), and errors still happen. When errors happen there is only one correct response: honest disclosure ASAP.

It might be worthwhile to find out when the clinic's slow times are and schedule vaccination visits then. It could help with the stress of the next vaccination after this bad experience. 

I wish you and your lovely poodle the very best.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

pretty frightening. my question is, how is pearl doing? many years ago my dog (no longer a puppy) had to have a lepto vaccination because of requirements levied by the state to which i was moving. my vet insisted she would not give it at the same time as other shots and she made us come back a day later and then sit in the office for several hours after the vaccination to watch for possible negative reactions. i still have a healthy respect for that vaccine and understand anyone not wanting to have it done unless absolutely necessary. 

your vet's error is truly puzzling. i wonder if, in fact, the error began with the tech who prepared the medication and the vet is, rightly, taking responsibility. 

hope all is well with your pup.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Pearly Mae has been fine, thankfully. I am more concerned about her immune system, because that it, after all, what we are trying to protect with the Jean Dodds protocol. I have received tons of messages from people whose dogs get the lepto shot quite regularly, with no ill effects, so that is what has kept me from losing it. I am already thinking about what is the best thing to do in the future...start all over with a new vet or work with this one knowing she will be doing her utmost to make sure no mistakes are ever made again in connection to any of my kids.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

i think maybe a heart to heart with your current vet before you decide? i still suspect it was an error by staff. i know the way my vet's office works, the assistant brings in the vaccine and syringe. the vet fills the syringe, true, but he doesn't read the label first. maybe they all should. but the reason for staff is trying to be more efficient. if you decide to stick with your vet, you will probably get the most meticulous service going forward.

hopefully pearl will continue to do fine.


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## spookiesmom (Dec 31, 2011)

Drs Foster and Smith have a pharmacy, you can order vax from them


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

spookiesmom said:


> Drs Foster and Smith have a pharmacy, you can order vax from them


We cannot get the vaccines here unless we have it shipped to a US address and physically drive across the border to get it and transport it here. Our laws are entirely different here.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Oh! I am sorry! I know that doesn't help. 

Ok, now that what's done is done, what can you do to boost her immune system? Vit C, herbs, chiropratic? Shoot, I'd be willing to try VooDoo if I thought that would help. I've been there, done that with my vet giving an unauthorized vaccine to two of my girls. It wasn't pretty and I am praying hard that you never deal with what they did. (it was NOT lepto that got them - not trying to start any more panic) 

OK, does Dr Dodd have any suggestions for Pearl? I am quite sure Sweet Pearlie Girl has a better start and foundation than the average dog, but what else can be done to help her? What can be done to help you? Your immune system took a bit of a blow today, too. How about you try some vitamins or something, too? No need for you to be suffering. You must be rlalxed and prepared for whatever (hopefully nothing) that may occur. 

Huge cyberhugs to you! Will be thinking of you all.


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## PoodLuv (Apr 5, 2014)

I'm sorry to hear this, but as a first time puppy owner I'm a little confused about the lepto vaccine, should it not be administered AT ALL or is it OK as long as it's not given with a bunch of others? I'm not up to speed on this stuff so any education you folks can give me would be welcome.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

PoodLuv said:


> I'm sorry to hear this, but as a first time puppy owner I'm a little confused about the lepto vaccine, should it not be administered AT ALL or is it OK as long as it's not given with a bunch of others? I'm not up to speed on this stuff so any education you folks can give me would be welcome.


Hi. Google jean Dodds as a start. Once you start learning about the current findings on vaccines you will be able to make the best decisions for your puppy's vaccines. Your own vet might not be the best person to discuss this with as it seems that many vets are not on board with changing the way things have always been done. It is being proven by many researchers, doing good science, that vaccines do not need to be repeated annually because they last way longer than that, possibly for the life of the dog. I'm overly simplifying it. It's a very interesting subject. 

Pr


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## PoodlePaws (May 28, 2013)

Sorry this happened to Pearl. At my vet, the tech fills the syringes and has them waiting for the vet to administer. I always have them vaccinated for everything including lepto, so have never really noticed if the vet looks at each syringe when they give it. I hope she will be ok. I'm also glad the vet told you. It would've been really easy to hide.


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## PoodLuv (Apr 5, 2014)

Poodlerunner said:


> Hi. Google jean Dodds as a start. Once you start learning about the current findings on vaccines you will be able to make the best decisions for your puppy's vaccines. Your own vet might not be the best person to discuss this with as it seems that many vets are not on board with changing the way things have always been done. It is being proven by many researchers, doing good science, that vaccines do not need to be repeated annually because they last way longer than that, possibly for the life of the dog. I'm overly simplifying it. It's a very interesting subject.
> 
> Pr


As soon as that name cropped up in the thread I bookmarked the site and have been reading it and the stuff it links to. So I guess what I should say when taking Spencer in for his first shots/checkup is NO LEPTO, right?


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## Spoos+Ponies (Mar 26, 2014)

I'm in the 'find a new vet' camp, unless everything else they do/suggest is in line with your beliefs. I've been going to a super holistic vet for a few years now, and it's just such a relief to not have to avoid certain topics(home-feeding, over vaccination) and to be able to respect their opinions on things that there may be differing research on. I just took my new pup in for her 
2nd and last shot (hopefully ever, for parvo/distemper) They don't even have the lepto vacc, or the massive combo shots. We also discussed my intention of just a hysterectomy with the ovaries left in - she went over the pros and cons, and said if I still wanted to go ahead she would refer me to a local vascular surgeon (apparently a more complicated procedure than I realized). No god-complex, well-informed, and not threatened by my research and opinions. For vets that fear loss of income by doing the ethical thing (infrequent vaccinations) my holistic clinic is booked for weeks. No lost revenue there...


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

PoodLuv said:


> As soon as that name cropped up in the thread I bookmarked the site and have been reading it and the stuff it links to. So I guess what I should say when taking Spencer in for his first shots/checkup is NO LEPTO, right?


I believe that one of the reasons that vets want to give lepto vaccine is because the disease is zoonotic, which means that humans can catch the disease. If your dog goes where a lot of wild animals frequent, your dog could pick up the disease from the urine or from drinking ground water. The disease often causes liver and/or kidney failure. So it is not a disease you want your dog to get.

The reason NOT to let your dog get this vaccination is because only about 4 out of 200 strains are in the vaccine. Also a lot of dogs have bad reactions to this vaccine. If you don't take your dog around places where wild animals go, then the risk to you and your dog is minimal.

I usually give my dogs this vaccination by itself when they are younger but stop it when they are older. We do walk our dogs where wild animals frequent. So it not an easy decision for us to make.


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## Oreo's Mommy (Dec 18, 2012)

Oreo has always gotten his Lepto 4 way vaccine. I live in a tropical climate. He never had a problem with the Lepto shot. He did have a reaction to the first Bordetella shot but not the subsequent ones. 

My previous poodle, Fifi, also routinely got her Lepto shot and lived to be almost 14 1/2. She passed of congestive heart failure. 

My prayers are with you.


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

So sorry to hear about Pearl - and that you are understandably so very upset, Arreau.

I'd be inclined to stick with the vet if you've always got on okay with her before. Like others said - you know you are going to get red-carpet treatment now. However, if you've lost faith in them then maybe make some inquiries with other vets as to their thinking about vaccines and any other things you have strong feelings on, then you can make a decision as to staying or going.

I'd not do anything rash though just yet - take a wee while to recover from the shock and upset first, then make a calm decision.

:hug:


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

Aw, Arreau I am so sorry to hear about the mishap. Sometimes it seems like the harder we try to be good, informed, parents to our kids (skin or furred)... the more the world conspires against us. It is so frustrating when you have worked so hard to do everything right. Hopefully, a strong immune system, great prenatal care and all the love in the world will keep bad things from happening. Give that baby an extra kiss... and then give yourself a hug. You did the best you could for her.


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## janet6567 (Mar 11, 2014)

I like the idea of having the vaccines drawn up in front of you. I would think your vet (should you decide to keep her) would agree after what has happened. Hoping Pearl will be fine.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Arreau, just checking to make sure you're doing OK.
Thinking of you.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks so much. Pearl and I are both fine.


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## Marcie (Aug 2, 2011)

I would be shopping for a new vet and a lawyer!


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## pandj (Jun 12, 2013)

I felt sick for you when I read your post ! I am so very sorry this has happened. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Dolly's Mom (Feb 14, 2014)

I'm horrified and would've definitely reversed the charges of a visit in which the vet gave my dog something I adamantly decided against. That being said what's the concern with lepto? My older female got it as an almost 6 year old (though I've decided against vaccinating her any further).


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Oh Cherie! I just saw this, and I am so sorry. 

Like others, I'm impressed that your vet admitted to the mistake -- that's no small thing. But I am very surprised that she charged you for the shot. I would have thought that she'd make the whole visit free in view of her error.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

There is a whole lot of soul searching and investigating new vets going on. I am still not sure what the best option is, but am sure I'll have things in place so. Thankfully my little girl is ok, and I have calmed down and can now be rational about the whole ordeal. Thank you all so much for your support and understanding!


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> We cannot get the vaccines here unless we have it shipped to a US address and physically drive across the border to get it and transport it here. Our laws are entirely different here.


I just read this whole thread today and was horrified that such a thing happened to you. I just read that you are both fine, thank goodness. What a trauma. Sending peaceful healing energy.

I believe you are in Ontario? What are the nearest border cities? Maybe someone here in the US could drive your vaccines across for you. I live in the UP, in Marquette, which is a ways. Where exactly are you?


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> There is a whole lot of soul searching and investigating new vets going on. I am still not sure what the best option is, but am sure I'll have things in place so. Thankfully my little girl is ok, and I have calmed down and can now be rational about the whole ordeal. Thank you all so much for your support and understanding!


You are so welcome. I'm glad this forum is her. We all love our Poodles so much that everyone can understand and be supportive. 

btw, I love your girl, Pearl. She is so stunning. I watched that video where you were walking her on a lead and fell in love with her.

pr


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## MaryEdwards (Oct 29, 2012)

Glad you and Pearl are fine. Hoping everything turns out okay. :angry:


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

That is such an awful experience, but I would think twice before looking for a new vet. 
We all make mistakes, and like us, vets are human too. The reason why I suggest considering keeping this vet, is because it takes a good honest person to admit fault, especially for a mistake as devastating and dangerous as this one. She even followed up with you and reversed the charges, which should not have been charged anyways, but the situation seemed to stir up a bit of chaos and I think there was some panic on both the clinics side (with havinga full waiting room of clients) and you getting such shocking news.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

hunny518 said:


> That is such an awful experience, but I would think twice before looking for a new vet.
> We all make mistakes, and like us, vets are human too. The reason why I suggest considering keeping this vet, is because it takes a good honest person to admit fault, especially for a mistake as devastating and dangerous as this one. She even followed up with you and reversed the charges, which should not have been charged anyways, but the situation seemed to stir up a bit of chaos and I think there was some panic on both the clinics side (with havinga full waiting room of clients) and you getting such shocking news.


I am beginning to rethink my first reaction to this. Right - how many employees would actually tell you they made a mistake? And then reverse the charges? I have been far more likely to find people that try to hide what they did and deny it. Hmmmmm. You do have an honest person here....


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

It occurs to me that, if you continue to use the same vet, they are going to pay close attention to you and be very, very careful not to make any more mistakes.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

LEUllman said:


> It occurs to me that, if you continue to use the same vet, they are going to pay close attention to you and be very, very careful not to make any more mistakes.


I tend to agree, now that I have had time to cool my jets.


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## Trevor (Jul 3, 2014)

*I don't know what to say...*

Hello Arreau,

OMG, another story of vet incompetency! Don't worry too much Arreau, Pearl has everything for her except that stupid shot! But I just know how this can be upsetting because you're so serious about your dogs' health.

I'm still trying to put together how Trevor's vet that is doing holistic and conventional medicine and pretend to do integrative medicine totally missed the boat about Trevor's health. I know now that he was suffering from a generalized cancer since at least 14 months when we have to put him to sleep on June 27, hearing the word cancer and the diagnostic of generalized cancer the day he died. I'm still asking myself how is it possible… I hope that you feel better, take care.


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