# California Breeder -- Poodle passion



## Brenda-A (Jan 7, 2013)

Has any one bought poodles from her??

Valerie Stanol owner of Poodle Passion

Shes in Anza, CA 

Considering buying a sister for Teddy.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Ask about health testing and showing.


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## Brenda-A (Jan 7, 2013)

petitpie said:


> Ask about health testing and showing.


Thanks


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## Cailin77 (Jul 21, 2012)

Did you read her paragraph at the bottom of her home page warning people against "buying shelter dogs?" She suggests that getting a dog from a shelter "supports mixed breeding dogs" and "supports dead-beat dog owners." I know everyone is entitled to their opinion- but that stance is a red flag to me! I wouldn't support a breeder who is against rescue dogs.


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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

I read her statement and IMHO I think it is more of a sales tactic promoting her pure bred poodles rather than a statement against shelter dogs. I think she is trying to convey the positive reasons why someone would want to buy a pure bred dog. Just my two cents. Her poodles are very pretty. Of course it goes without saying that I would want to see where she lives and how the poodles are born and raised. In other words no buying sight unseen. 


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## Cailin77 (Jul 21, 2012)

Poodlemama99 said:


> I read her statement and IMHO I think it is more of a sales tactic promoting her pure bred poodles rather than a statement against shelter dogs. I think she is trying to convey the positive reasons why someone would want to buy a pure bred dog. Just my two cents. Her poodles are very pretty. Of course it goes without saying that I would want to see where she lives and how the poodles are born and raised. In other words no buying sight unseen.
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I totally agree its a sales tactic. I just wouldn't be comfortable buying from a breeder who feels they need to deter people from getting needy animals, so they have a greater chance of selling their purebred dogs. It's certainly not a deal breaker for everyone, but it would be or me.


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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

I understand how you feel. I always feel guilty buying my poodles rather than trying to rescue one. 


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Poodlemama99 said:


> I understand how you feel. I always feel guilty buying my poodles rather than trying to rescue one.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Why would you feel guilty? I kind of agree with the breeders statement, although I would not put it on an ad like that. Rescueing has gone so far to the left that people who prefer to purchase the exact breed, personality and friend that will share their lives for a long, long time are vilified. That is wrong. You are the one who lives, loves and cares for your pets. You should have the exact one you want. If it is a shelter dog, that's great. But, don't tell me I can't have the type of pet I want. No guilt here.


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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

I know a lot of people who rescue and I see many dogs who can't get placed. I don't feel guilty for wanting poodles or pure bred poodles but I do feel bad for the dogs who don't have homes. 


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

I think every breeder can (and should!) extoll the virtues of purebred dogs and reassure buyers that it's okay to be creating a purchasing new dogs when there are still so many without homes. However, this can be done without trashing shelters or their dogs. That bit she wrote is not only ignorant, it's heartless and perpetuating stereotypes that keep people away from shelters in the first place. People who *would* be perfectly happy with the many well-adjusted and loveable mutts in need of homes. On the background page, she also decries the re-homing of retired adult dogs by other breeders saying they "can't be bothered" to care for them once they're no longer earning their owners money. Yet she herself does it when the circumstance is right. ?? So there are times when it's best for her dogs to be re-homed, but never for another breeder's dogs to be re-homed? She seems to have a bit of a "smear campaign" going on, and while her dogs may be lovely, the negativity and what reads as insecurity would give me enough reason to look elsewhere. I find that shelter dog slander the most upsetting, though. Those dogs are dying because people don't even consider them, and she's just adding fuel to the fire. : /


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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

While I agree her comments are both ignorant and insensitive to shelter dogs I doubt they will have much impact on anyone. A person looking at pure bred poodle website is probably not looking for a shelter dog any more than a person who is looking to adopt a shelter dog would be looking at a poodle breeder website. 


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Poodlemama, I do agree that it may not have much of an impact as to whether someone chooses to go ahead and buy a Poodle as they'd originally planned. Ignorant and insensitive statements always have an impact, though. That person who chooses to buy a Poodle may then also go on thinking shelter dogs are unsuitable, and spreading that misinformation to their friends. I see a larger impact than one person buying one dog.


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## Cailin77 (Jul 21, 2012)

Poodlemama99 said:


> While I agree her comments are both ignorant and insensitive to shelter dogs I doubt they will have much impact on anyone. A person looking at pure bred poodle website is probably not looking for a shelter dog any more than a person who is looking to adopt a shelter dog would be looking at a poodle breeder website.
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I agree, to a point. I don't think her little attack on shelters would change anyone's mind. But, I do love looking at breeder websites to see the beautiful dogs and cute puppies!  

It's also not the only thing I dislike about the site. It just happened to be the thing that bothered me the most. Notice that she has two male reds that she's showing, but no other info on adult dogs? And on her puppy pages, those two dogs aren't the sire of any of the puppies. That's strange to me. There's no pedigree info that I could find either. On her health page, the only testing she mentions is eye testing on the sires.


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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

Now those are all red flags. I sometimes give breeders benefit of doubt on website information though as I have found not all of them spend adequate time or effort on their websites and really are not very savvy on the computer. That actually can be said about a lot of businesses besides breeders. Lol. Just one reason why I would never buy a puppy unless I could go to the breeders to pick it up. 


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

I would run from this breeder. No. Health testing, no info on the dogs and she advertises on puppy find.


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## Brenda-A (Jan 7, 2013)

Thank you all for such great input. I hadn't even looked at all those things you all mentioned. I just saw the pretty poodles lol 

Now I know better


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Yes, pretty poodles are sooooooo distracting!!! Especially when you start to imagine that the one in the pic could be curled up on your lap one day. It's like "Where do I sign?!" : P


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## Brenda-A (Jan 7, 2013)

PammiPoodle said:


> Yes, pretty poodles are sooooooo distracting!!! Especially when you start to imagine that the one in the pic could be curled up on your lap one day. It's like "Where do I sign?!" : P


So true. I'm actually picturing Teddy and his sister. Just like some of the people here have multiple poodles and they look soo cute together. I'm an only child and I'm soo jealous of my friend that have siblings because they always have a friend. I'm more excited for Teddy being happy with his new playmate.


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

I would pass.

Posting that show pictures of the two red males, Vallee's Raging Red Hercules and Vallee's Red Hot Potato, is misleading, I think. Both dogs were showed once or twice, never finished. The only show result I found was back in 2009. Hercules was showed in the puppy group. Yes, he got 2nd but there were only 2 dogs entered. San Diego Poodle Club, Inc - 2009 SDPC Spec

These two males are probably the best among all the dogs she has produced BUT they are not the sire of any of the available puppies. Look at the website. There are constantly 4 "available puppies" pages. What does that tell you?

I don't think any reputable breeder would describe any of their puppies this way:
"...mostly black with apricot markings, making him look brown as his coat gets longer. … Check out his super long legs!"


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

I see that you are in LA. Have you contacted the Poodle Club of Southern California for breeder referral? American Kennel Club - Poodle Club of Southern California - LOS ANGELES - CA - 172

Or you can try contacting the San Diego Poodle Club. They have plenty of Toy breeders. San Diego Poodle Club, Inc - Breeders

There's also the Los Angeles Poodle Obedience Club. They can ask around or even refer you to some of their members. They know first-hand the Toy poodles that are smart and well-socialized. Home Page

And of course, there's the Poodle Rescue in both SoCal and NorCal. They might not have something for you right away but if you keep looking, you might be able to find your Teddy a new friend.
Poodle Rescue - California - Toy - Standard - Miniature - Labradoodle - Goldendoodle
norcalpoodlerescue.net


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## Brenda-A (Jan 7, 2013)

schnauzerpoodle said:


> I would pass.
> 
> Posting that show pictures of the two red males, Vallee's Raging Red Hercules and Vallee's Red Hot Potato, is misleading, I think. Both dogs were showed once or twice, never finished. The only show result I found was back in 2009. Hercules was showed in the puppy group. Yes, he got 2nd but there were only 2 dogs entered. San Diego Poodle Club, Inc - 2009 SDPC Spec
> 
> ...


THank you so much for the research. I hadn't even looked at everything you mentioned. Makes sense now that you point it out. I honestly didn't know what to look for when looking at a website other than just the poodle puppies. Now I see I have to be more careful since one can easily be fooled.


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## Brenda-A (Jan 7, 2013)

schnauzerpoodle said:


> I see that you are in LA. Have you contacted the Poodle Club of Southern California for breeder referral? American Kennel Club - Poodle Club of Southern California - LOS ANGELES - CA - 172
> 
> Or you can try contacting the San Diego Poodle Club. They have plenty of Toy breeders. San Diego Poodle Club, Inc - Breeders
> 
> ...


Thanks I have seen some of those sites. I sent an email but haven't gotten any response. I'll just call instead maybe I'll get more information that way. 

Thanks


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

The puppy page should not be the first thing you look at when evaluating the website of a breeder. Who can say no to cute puppies? 

Look at what they say about themselves. Look at what they say about how they raise their dogs. Look for info about showing or training their dogs in other activities such as agility, obedience, etc. You want a breeder who is actively doing things with their dogs. Even if s/he is not doing agility with their dogs, you want to see that the breeder is playing, hanging out, living a real life with the dogs. Sometimes breeders only put show pictures on their website, that's totally fine because training a dog for the show ring requires a lot of time and effort but when you talk to the breeder, you need to get the feeling that s/he knows each puppy. Many breeders don't put health testing results on the website. That's okay too but always ask for that BEFORE looking at puppies.

Just found out that the San Diego Poodle Club is doing the MEET THE BREEDS on Feb 23-24 (10am - 2pm) at the Del Mar Race Track (Seaside Pavilion, back right corner).

Go meet some breeders. Talk to them. Ask for contact info. Learn about their health testing and other breeding practice. Go meet some well-bred poodles. Look at how their poodles interact with the breeder. You can tell a lot from seeing their interaction.

I have learned a lot and met a lot of people through this type of activities. It's so much fun AND educational. Surrounded by 10+ beautiful poodles makes a nice weekend, doesn't it?

Follow the Facebook page of your local poodle club so that you are informed of their activities and just go. It seems weird at first because they all seem to know each other and you are obviously the newcomer but you know, just go say hi and tell them you are looking for a poodle. Breeders appreciate this kind of effort (researching through a breed club) made by a potential buyer.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Also, nobody mentioned the fact that many purebred dogs end up in shelters and rescues. That a breeder would say something so insensitive regarding adopting dogs in need would tell me to keep looking. sales or not, the character of the breeder is also important.


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

Hi Everyone,

What about this breeder? SWEET MISERY POODLES

They are in California so maybe driving distance for OP. Plus they expected red puppies which OP is looking for. Price seems reasonable. They do mention that health is tested, explicitly mentioned PRA test but no mention on Patella, I might miss it somewhere. They are retired vet so I thought thats a good start, no?

Please advise. Thank you!


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Poodle Lover said:


> I would run from this breeder. No. Health testing, no info on the dogs and she advertises on puppy find.


In addition to this - 
Any breeder who prices her dogs by "color and size" is not a reputable breeder and not to mention that she breeds "tea-cup" size poodles :afraid:. 

I would not go there ...


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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

Without getting in another "teacup" discussion, I just want to say Not All Teacup Dogs Are Bad. It depends on the breeder, the sure and dam and the puppy. If you breed tiny dogs together you are going to produce tiny babies. Just saying. 


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I guess I'd start with your local chapter of the PCA for a referral. If a breeder who has a website and pretty pictures is not mentioned through the PCA, I'd pass. That's me --- understand others may not find that important.


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## wishpoo (Sep 12, 2009)

Poodlemama99 said:


> Without getting in another "teacup" discussion, I just want to say Not All Teacup Dogs Are Bad. It depends on the breeder, the sure and dam and the puppy. If you breed tiny dogs together you are going to produce tiny babies. Just saying.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yes, but good and reputable breeder does not price them differently and does not call them "tea cup" ; ).


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## Cailin77 (Jul 21, 2012)

Joelly said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> What about this breeder? SWEET MISERY POODLES
> 
> ...


Like someone mentioned, it's smart to look at other things they do with their poodles- like showing or agility. There is absolutely none of that on their site. Again, no pedigrees listed for any of the dogs. To me the biggest flag is that they're expecting four litters during the last two weeks of March. IMHO, that is way too many litters at the same time! And I don't like the idea of young pups around the vet clinic all the time- too many germs! 

I don't envy anyone looking for a breeder. Especially any toy breed! Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like toy breeds are more exploited by back yard breeders and puppy mills.


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## Poodlelvr (Mar 13, 2010)

Looking at the Sweet Misery site, I am appalled by the lack of grooming of the expectant parents link. It does seem misery is the correct term.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Poodlelvr said:


> Looking at the Sweet Misery site, I am appalled by the lack of grooming of the expectant parents link. It does seem misery is the correct term.


My sentiments, too. They all look sad to me, too.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

It's a personal choice what sort of breeder you're comfortable with, but I decided when I began shopping that if they weren't actively showing or continually working towards producing champions, they weren't the breeder for me. I understand that many people just want pets, but pets come in every litter along with champions. There isn't a need to continue producing average purebreds to fill pet homes. Of course, I mean average in the sense of adhering to and improving their breed standard and having the best possible proven good health and longevity. No dogs are "average" at heart. : ) I know it sounds so cold when I say it that way, because every little puppy is so loveable and special. Realistically, though, there is an excess of dogs in the world, and if we're going to make new ones, we should at least be trying to make the best of the best! 

I guess that was just a round-about way of saying I wouldn't buy from this breeder, either. So much is a personal choice, though. I have a very good friend who sees eye-to-eye with me on almost everything dog related. Yet she would buy a puppy from a breeder who doesn't show or care to improve the breed. I wish you luck deciding what's right for you and Teddy! : ) I know these decisions can be hard!


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## Brenda-A (Jan 7, 2013)

Thank you all. I really appreciate all your input. I also think breeders shouldn't breeder tea cups or micro tea cups. I feel that Teddy being 4.5 pounds is very fragile and I have to be extra careful with him. I don't even let him walk when we are crowed places. I prefer to pick him up because I'm scared someone might step on it. I can't imagine how fragile teacups or micro teacups would be. But thats just my opinion. 

I will try to go to the show next week. I think Teddy would love to meet his extended family. So far he has never meet another purebred poodle well except for his family. 

Pammipoodle: You are right. This is such a hard decision. Sometimes I just get frustrated and just take a break. I have noticed that most litters are born around late February March. I do hope I find Teddy a sister. He will be trilled to have a playmate.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Also, Sweet Misery claims that all adult dogs are examined for PRA, but only the studs tested "negative". Makes me wonder if any females are affected or carriers. Plus, I believe the genetic PRA test yields ratings of A (clear), B (unaffected, probable carrier), or C (high risk or affected). Not negative or positive. Most breeders who mention the test list the rating each dog received. Cailin is right, there are a *lot* of toy breeders who just accumulate cute dogs and sell cute puppies who do not have the dog's or breed's (or buyer's!) best interest at heart.


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## Brenda-A (Jan 7, 2013)

I don't know anything about testing so I could easily be fooled. I have learned a lot.


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

Poodlemama99 said:


> Without getting in another "teacup" discussion, I just want to say Not All Teacup Dogs Are Bad. It depends on the breeder, the sure and dam and the puppy. If you breed tiny dogs together you are going to produce tiny babies. Just saying.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Tiny dogs often have health issues and are much more fragile not to mention that is is much harder on the female to deliver a litter. That's why reputable breeders don't breed for tiny and when tiny happen they are sold as pets only on a spay or neuter contact.


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Brenda-A said:


> I don't know anything about testing so I could easily be fooled. I have learned a lot.


See more here:

OptiGen - PRA Test - Poodles
OptiGen - prcd-PRA Test - canine genetic testing

There's no excuse for the breeder not to run this test on BOTH parents BEFORE the breeding takes place. It's an one-time test and there are plenty of clinics organized by the local breed clubs that offer the test at a discounted rate.

This Optigen prcd-PRA test is a MUST. Without the test conducted BEFORE the breeding takes place, unless BOTH dogs are clear by parentage, I would terminate the conversation with the breeder right there.


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## Cailin77 (Jul 21, 2012)

I noticed that both these breeders mentioned PRA testing only on the sires. It actually makes sense, if the breeder is only worrying about the next generation of poodles, and not about improving overall poodle health. IE- they're only breeding for pets. Since PRA is recessive BOTH parents have to pass the gene on for the puppies to have it. If all the sires test "normal" then there is a very low risk of PRA in the puppies, no matter what the mothers genetics are. 

Please, don't misunderstand me, I don't condone only testing the sires! My point is, maybe it's something to keep an eye on when looking for a breeder. Doing bare minimum testing isn't good for the breed overall. Someone only testing their sires is only worried about the health of one generation of puppies, not any dogs further down the line. To me, that is a sure sign that they're breeding for profit, not because they love the breed.


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## Brenda-A (Jan 7, 2013)

I read the information on the test it sound like its super important. I wouldn't want my baby to go blind. Is there any other test that I should ask about?


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Here you can find everything you need to know about getting a poodle - from evaluating the breeders' websites, questions to ask the breeders to health issues and grooming.

Versatility In Poodles - Educational Publications


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## artsycourtneysue (Jul 21, 2009)

Congrats on starting your toy puppy search!!! I know the process all too well as last year was in the same boat with the same requirements for my family. It was a long process but We ended up with a beautiful Hosanna girl  Attached is a pic of little Khaleesi. she is smart as a whip and so sweet. I'd be happy to give you more info if you like- just send me a pm. Best of luck!


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## Brenda-A (Jan 7, 2013)

artsycourtneysue said:


> Congrats on starting your toy puppy search!!! I know the process all too well as last year was in the same boat with the same requirements for my family. It was a long process but We ended up with a beautiful Hosanna girl  Attached is a pic of little Khaleesi. she is smart as a whip and so sweet. I'd be happy to give you more info if you like- just send me a pm. Best of luck!


schnauzerpoodle: Thank you I will read it to be informed.

artsycourtneysue: Khaleesi is soo adorable. I have researched hosanna poodles, but I am looking for a poodle with a liver-colored nose, which by the way seem to be extinct.


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Brenda-A said:


> but I am looking for a poodle with a liver-colored nose, which by the way seem to be extinct.


So you are looking for a brown, cafe au lait or silver-beige puppy?


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## Brenda-A (Jan 7, 2013)

schnauzerpoodle said:


> So you are looking for a brown, cafe au lait or silver-beige puppy?


Teddy is an apricot red with a liver-colored nose. So I would want another one like him. I'm guessing the closest to him would be a cafe au lait; right? Because most apricot/red poodles have black noses since the AKC says its preferred.


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## artsycourtneysue (Jul 21, 2009)

That's tough in the toy realm. Have you thought about a miniature? Amity Valley has some beautiful silver beiges..... just lovely. They might be on the large size for what you are looking for.


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## starpoodle (Aug 6, 2011)

artsycourtneysue said:


> Congrats on starting your toy puppy search!!! I know the process all too well as last year was in the same boat with the same requirements for my family. It was a long process but We ended up with a beautiful Hosanna girl  Attached is a pic of little Khaleesi. she is smart as a whip and so sweet. I'd be happy to give you more info if you like- just send me a pm. Best of luck!


Your girl is BEAUTIFUL with pigment to die for! I have heard many good things about her breeder.


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## artsycourtneysue (Jul 21, 2009)

starpoodle said:


> Your girl is BEAUTIFUL with pigment to die for! I have heard many good things about her breeder.


Thank you so much! She is a little doll. My family adores her and she is quite the confident pup. She has personality PLUS


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## Brenda-A (Jan 7, 2013)

artsycourtneysue said:


> That's tough in the toy realm. Have you thought about a miniature? Amity Valley has some beautiful silver beiges..... just lovely. They might be on the large size for what you are looking for.


I already have a tiny toy so I want his sister to be his size.


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

I think health and temperament are much more important than the colour of a dog's nose. The problem you will run into looking for a dog with a liver coloured nose is that you will generally not find a reputable breeder producing that pigment unless they are brown, cafe or silver beige.


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## starpoodle (Aug 6, 2011)

YES, good health is more important than anything else! You can read through threads on this forum where owners discuss health issues in their babies - the heartache, the expense and the time spent in pursuit of treatment are devastating.

fwiw, my red poodle's originally black nose faded and is now closer to liver-colored. From reading these threads, I've learned this is a common occurence.


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## Brenda-A (Jan 7, 2013)

starpoodle said:


> YES, good health is more important than anything else! You can read through threads on this forum where owners discuss health issues in their babies - the heartache, the expense and the time spent in pursuit of treatment are devastating.
> 
> fwiw, my red poodle's originally black nose faded and is now closer to liver-colored. From reading these threads, I've learned this is a common occurence.


Locket and Starpoodle you are right. Thanks for all your help. I will ask about testing rather than the color of the poodle


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