# Stumped on how to reward something



## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Tarzan has assigned himself a job recently. I occasionally suffer some pretty devastating nightmares. It's an off again, on again issue. We have tried medications, therapy, etc. I guess I'm just stuck with them. I've been doing fairly well until recently and now they are back with some force - pretty much nightly (daily? as I am a day sleeper) 

Anyway, this past two weeks, Tarzan has been getting up by my shoulder and barking in my face waking me up. I 'parakeet' him (slip the sheet over him and he snuggles up and goes to sleep). I thought he was just being a puppy until he started something new. 

When I wake up from the nightmares and go right back to sleep, they start over. Tarzan has now started barking to wake me, then running to the door and barking. I get up and follow him. There is never anything there and he doesn't want outside. He then runs back to the bedroom and asks to be put in bed. (he doesn't use the stairs to get up, only down. He likes to be placed in bed). He doesn't always want in bed (it's hot here, so I just figure he prefers the air vent). I had a bad one again and the puppy who refuses the stairs and was on the floor, woke me by barking in my face, leading me out of bed, etc. He used the stairs on his own. 

Now, usually, I am a light sleeper, but when I wake from these, I am groggy and disoriented - almost feel drunk or something. I actually stagger about the house expecting to stumble into the wreckage I have seen in my dreams (I will spare you all the details, but *shudder). 

Somehow, when he gets me up and moving, it seems to stop the nightmare thing and I can sleep another couple of hours. I would love to know how he sorted that out, but mostly, how do I reward him when I don't even know who or where I am at the time? 

(I do realize that I need to get this straightened out medically or something since it's affecting my everyday waking life, but in the meantime, I want to thank Tarzan for being supportive and helpful). Is there a way to reward him?


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

Since he learned the behavior on his own and has repeated it, I would think that merely picking him up, and praising him is doing the job. If you are suffering from some type of PTSD and wake up , totally unaware of things, then you still must be doing something that is rewarding to Tarzan. Maybe it is close physical contact. I hope he continues to help with intervention. Some dogs are very sensitive to their owners emotional state. It sounds like you are blessed with one of these dogs.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I agree - the behaviour is already being rewarded. Perhaps he has discovered that waking you up stops something that is frightening for you both, perhaps the genuine gratitude in your voice and posture get through to him - it doesn't really matter. I think there are some things dogs find intrinsically rewarding - for Sophy it is tracking down people or animals she has been asked to find. She was never taught, and only rewarded with thanks, praise and a clear sense of a job beyond human capabilities done well.

I am glad Tarzan is there to help you at what is obviously a difficult and troubling time.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I agree also. I think it's wonderful that your dog has figured out on his own how to help you !

I hope you find a way to sleep and rest better, it must be very hard on you.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Maybe Tarzan senses changes in your heart rate or breathing. Poodles are remarkably intuitive. I would just praise and cuddle your sleep guardian. Sorry about the persistent nightmares.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I am sorry your sleep suffers so. I am not a great sleeper, but not because of nightmares. That sounds just awful. Tarzan must figure it out from restless movements, breathing or something physiological. I think you are rewarding him just fine by showing him how much you appreciate his help with a good snuggle.


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## Axeldog (Aug 29, 2014)

BK- I agree with the other comments here. Tarzan is already getting a reward from you when you wake up from these awful nightmares. What an intuitive awesome little guy. 

Many years ago, I read a book about lucid dreaming by S. Laberg (sp?). At that time, my goal was to remember my dreams and journal them. In the book, the author explained that one technique to remember your dreams was to remain motionless when you first awaken, and work to recall the dream, without physically moving your body. It sounds strange, but there is something that happens to your brain/memory recall when you physically move your head, or roll over in bed etc. 

So, when you say that after Tarzan gets you up and out of bed it breaks the cycle of returning to your terrible dream it makes a lot of sense to me. 

My sincerest best wishes that these dreams will lessen and go away. It's so stressful to have to endure that.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I'm so terribly sorry you're having such a difficulty. I hope you are seeing a specialist and that there's something to help with that. It sounds terrible. (((hugs)))

I agree with the others that with some things, some animals, the reward is the action itself and/or something you're doing that you're not aware of or that isn't what we might think of as a typical reward. Your dog loves and adores you and to be there for you and with you is enough for him or he wouldn't keep doing it. 

Do try to keep after a solution, if you're not already...I hope you get to the bottom of this and put a stop to these bad dreams. Lots of hugs and wishes for some relief.


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## Sara0810 (May 21, 2017)

Sorry to hear about your nightmares. But please don't take medication if that's ever recommended to you. It just exchanges one problem, over which you may have some control (thanks to your dog), with another over which you may have no control. I distrust drugs that act on the central nervous system.. they're addictive and come with a host of undesirable side effects.
As for your dog, your guardian angel , I read somewhere that each animal that is in our lives is sent there for a reason. There must be something more to animal spirits than at least I know about.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/nightmares

I have been thinking about nightmares and what causes them because I actually had one so terrifying and real that I had to wake up in order to get out of it a few days ago. Couldn't take that on a nightly basis. Hugs, Borderkelpie and sweet dreams.


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## galofpink (Mar 14, 2017)

Sorry to hear about your nightmares; they are never pleasant to deal with. 

Throughout my life, I have had a couple recurring nightmares that occurred in response to what seemed like a traumatic event in my life. Cougar or panther prowling in the field and stalking/killing me in response to an attack story I heard when I was a young kid (likely around 6/7). Walking into the fruit cellar and seeing two armed robbers that chase me throughout the house in response to my childhood house being robbed for the third time (about 10). I had recurring nightmares after watching Robin Williams' Jumanji partly due to content and partly because we went to someone's house and I watched it despite being grounded and thought I did something really wrong. Yes, I was a sensitive child....

Is there a theme with your nightmares? Can you tie them to any event happening? I can obviously tie my recurring ones to events that were "traumatic" (to me anyway), but perhaps you can't. I find I work out a lot of my negative feelings and a lot of the negative events that I have experienced throughout the day in my dreams. I dream vividly and deeply and they are terrifying and warped by times. I wake up in sweats and like you am in a fog.

Do you have any food allergies? My grandpa always got nightmares after drinking milk. For some people that can trigger it I guess???

I hope you get it sorted out and can return to sleeping normally. 

Oh and Tarzan - what a brilliant guy! Really impressive how in-tune he is and how he completely changes his normal behaviour to make sure you get out of bed and wake up enough to get out of the nightmare. Bravo!


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Mfmst said:


> https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/nightmares
> 
> I have been thinking about nightmares and what causes them because I actually had one so terrifying and real that I had to wake up in order to get out of it a few days ago. Couldn't take that on a nightly basis. Hugs, Borderkelpie and sweet dreams.


Neat article, thank you.


I have been weaned off all meds, pain meds included, as they were thought to be the trigger. Even the rare alcoholic beverage is rationed, just in case. I rarely had nightmares as a kid. I was ok for a little over a year, and then this. 

There are chronic pain and PTSD issues. There have been stressors, but there always is. Nothing new, I don't think. 

The 'theme' of them all is fundamentally the same - I am unable to protect those in my care and loved ones from brutal destruction. anyway...

Thanks for the ideas and support. I guess I'll just treat Tarzan with the love and respect he has earned. Maybe attempt to spoil him a wee bit...
I am sure glad that Fate or whom/whatever decided that I was to be gifted a little tiny nightmare guardian. He's even worming his way into Bug's good graces. That's not an easy trick for a little boy. lol (I caught them playing secretly, they stopped when they realized I saw them. Busted!)

I wish everyone pleasant sleep tonight.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

BK if you worked last night i wish you a good day's sleep. I hope the holiday doesn't yield too much foolishness on the roads around you for you and your colleagues to cope with.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

lily cd re said:


> BK if you worked last night i wish you a good day's sleep. I hope the holiday doesn't yield too much foolishness on the roads around you for you and your colleagues to cope with.



I thank you for your wishes. 

Unfortunately, I may have picked up the gauntlet at home today. The illegal fireworks and entitled neighbors just really hit me the wrong way. Someone asked politely in the closed community FB forum to have some consideration with the fireworks. The comment was met with the usual tone of ******* entitlement and I may have joined in after the 5th day/night of uncontrolled, random explosives. To be fair, I started with a calm suggestion of maybe everyone could choose a time/safe place to meet to do that silly stuff with the (volunteer) FD close by and ready. It has since devolved into name calling, threats of blowing up driveways and vandalism, etc. I *may* have backed out of the argument with a comment similar to, 'blow yourselves to bits and clean out the gene pool' or something to that effect. Oops. 

My tolerance level is at a new low. I would have let is all slide as I usually do, but when someone dragged my daughter into it and told her to move to the city, I may have lost my temper a little. All she did was post asking for the fireworks to stop at midnight this time. 

But, at work, we've already got the agg assaults coming in, I am expecting the alcohol/explosive/driving incidents to begin any moment now. 
Maybe we should hole up and let them just blow themselves out of the pool. 

I need to work on my attitude, huh? On the bright side, my poodles, Tarzan included, are handling the war zone well. The goats, sheep, and herders - not so much. Poodles are great with this noisy stuff. Love them!


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## Sara0810 (May 21, 2017)

BorderKelpie said:


> I thank you for your wishes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wow, sorry you have to deal with such aggressive, inconsiderate people. It will be over soon, breathe, tune them out and relax with your little ones.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Sara0810 said:


> Wow, sorry you have to deal with such aggressive, inconsiderate people. It will be over soon, breathe, tune them out and relax with your little ones.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I have resigned myself to the fact that I am surrounded by idiots. I should have known that all along, I mean, seriously, I see how strong the stupid runs in humans anymore. lol 

Someone posted a rebuttal to the now deleted thread on that group. It seems he has decided to purchase $6,000 worth of fireworks to detonate tonight not too far from my house. I called my mom to warn her as she gets scared easily and is all alone out there now that dad is in the nursing home and I am stuck at work. I feel badly for her, mostly. The 'party' is closer to her place than mine. (who has $6,000 to blow on stuff like that?! I'm in the wrong career, obviously!)

I got up early and fed, walked (well, ran - I want them too tired to care) all the dogs. Treated the livestock to a bunch of grass clippings in their barns and struggled through traffic to work. I will just say a prayer (or 50) that everything will be ok until I can go home in the morning. I also set up a 'text date' with a buddy (she's a bit of a recluse herself) for Thursday for drinks and texting silliness from the safety of our own back porches. lol She and I can complain to our hearts' content about fireworks and people without leaving our respective hiding places. lol She's having serious issues with the fireworks and her horses and she's all alone out there trying to keep it all together. I am actually looking forward to that, strange as it sounds. It suits us, and I can be surrounded by my furry, hairy, wooley loved ones and so can she. 

I do hope everyone here has a safe and happy celebration. Be careful, PF family!


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## rj16 (Jan 30, 2017)

Good grief, BK! It sounds like you are dealing with some of the most inconsiderate %*$#&! I hope for your sake that all blows over soon. 

I'm afraid I have no real advice but I can commiserate. I suffered from PTSD following an accident a few years ago. It's awful. To me it was like my conscious and unconscious were not in line. I thought I was fine, but I wasn't and it was impacting so many facets of my life with no clear pattern and without me realizing the real extent of it. Anyway, I cannot say enough good things about psychotherapy. It was a lifesaver.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

I had been prescribed drugs from the benzodiazepine family to fix my horrible insomnia five years ago. I could not sleep because when I did the night terror was worse than not sleeping so I took this pill that made me sleep like a baby. This is the most awful medication and it nearly killed me. 

I was told to take it nightly for two weeks! I took it every other night and at the end of two weeks mark I couldn't go to sleep at all without it. The idiot doctor who prescribed the drug told me to just stop taking it cold turkey and I had a severe epileptic episode that nearly killed me. I couldn't sleep for literally days. I saw a new doctor to help slooowly wean off of this by added other meds to counter the withdrawal effect. It didn't work so well so I literally had a whole month where I completely blacked out and got almost no sleep. It was the most horrible experience ever. Benzodiazepine withdrawals are worse than heroine withdrawals and unlike heroine those seizures can actually kill you. It was the most excruciating experience I've never been through. Usually the withdrawal from a drug you take that fixed a problem gives to the exact opposite issue and aggravates it. 

The withdrawal experience made the nightmares 10x as bad and during the daytime is living in pure hell because you haven't had sleep in days. What this does to the human body and mind is truly frightening. The worst part it that seizures don't stop even if you wean yourself off. 

Some people are less sensitive to this drug but it is prescribed way too indiscriminately in the United States. The laissez-faire attitude is perpetuated by pharmaceutical companies incentivizing doctors to dispense their drug for kickbacks. Benzodiazepine drugs should be heavily sanctioned in the United States. Medical practices overseas is nothing like this. I think there was a class action lawsuit in the uK over benzos. The crazy part was that it took me about a whole year to fully get back to normal from taking sleeping meds for 2 weeks as directed by my physician and I didn't even take it every night like she told me to!

Drugs from the benzodiazepine family include ambien, lorazepam, xanax, klonopin etc. You see doctors prescribing it frequent to those with high anxiety jobs like live performers. It is always found in the bodies of touring musicians who have died ....most notably Micheal Jackson and Chris Cornell. 
I would highly recommend jogging or aerobic exercise in the evening to fix insomnia and proper use of good ear plugs.


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## Sara0810 (May 21, 2017)

snow0160 said:


> I had been prescribed drugs from the benzodiazepine family to fix my horrible insomnia five years ago. I could not sleep because when I did the night terror was worse than not sleeping so I took this pill that made me sleep like a baby. This is the most awful medication and nearly killed me.
> 
> I was told to take it nightly for two weeks! I took it every other night and at the end of two weeks mark I couldn't go to sleep at all without it. The idiot doctor who prescribed the drug told me to just stop taking it cold turkey and I had a severe epileptic episode that nearly killed me. I couldn't sleep for literally days. I saw a new doctor to help slooowly wean off of this by added other meds to counter the withdrawal effect. It didn't work so well so I literally had a whole month where I completely blacked out and got almost no sleep. It was the most horrible experience ever. Benzodiazepine withdrawals are worse than heroine withdrawals and unlike heroine those seizures can actually kill you. It was the most excruciating experience I've never been through. Usually the withdrawal from a drug you take that fixed a problem gives to the exact opposite issue and aggravates it.
> 
> ...



You captured the horrors of these drugs perfectly, thank you for sharing this knowledge. And I'm so glad you had the strength to get off the benzodiazepines. So many peoples' lives are unfortunately destroyed by such drugs. 


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

snow0160 said:


> I had been prescribed drugs from the benzodiazepine family to fix my horrible insomnia five years ago. I could not sleep because when I did the night terror was worse than not sleeping so I took this pill that made me sleep like a baby. This is the most awful medication and it nearly killed me.
> 
> I was told to take it nightly for two weeks! I took it every other night and at the end of two weeks mark I couldn't go to sleep at all without it. The idiot doctor who prescribed the drug told me to just stop taking it cold turkey and I had a severe epileptic episode that nearly killed me. I couldn't sleep for literally days. I saw a new doctor to help slooowly wean off of this by added other meds to counter the withdrawal effect. It didn't work so well so I literally had a whole month where I completely blacked out and got almost no sleep. It was the most horrible experience ever. Benzodiazepine withdrawals are worse than heroine withdrawals and unlike heroine those seizures can actually kill you. It was the most excruciating experience I've never been through. Usually the withdrawal from a drug you take that fixed a problem gives to the exact opposite issue and aggravates it.
> 
> ...


What a true nightmare for you!!

I have refused several of those drugs already. I have had some pretty dramatic side effects from prescription medications, so I am very careful. The kids and I were just talking about Ambien and the issues their HS teacher had on it. We made some uncomfortable jokes about my personality and temper on it and decided for the safety of the entire human race, perhaps I should just suffer a few nightmares and sleeplessness. 

We are rather too quick to prescribe a 'quick fix' without actually trying to fix the source of the problem. 

I have also found that I will exercise to excess when I need to sleep to try to drown out the inner demons. Mowing my 1+ acre with a 20 inch push mower helps a lot. lol I like to take the dogs hiking and for walks, if I could just find a place where I won't run into other loose dogs and people. *sigh* 

I have been known to use the treadmill until I give myself nosebleeds. I have to set a timer or have someone actually stop me. I may be a little intense. 

So, anyway. I think I will get to physically wear myself out tomorrow, thanks to the neighbors and the dogs that finally went way over threshold this evening. I will leave work and head to Home Depot and Tractor Supply to purchase heavy duty parts to put my big kennel gate back together. I use potty kennels before letting the dogs out on the yard. During firework weeks, they are only allowed in the house or kennels - not in the yard. Well, the fireworks started at 5ish and I put everyone out to potty before going to work. Yup, they ripped through the kennel gate, two actually busted out of the front gate after that. Front gate is patched together, but the kennel door is in rough shape. I have other yards I can use, but they are closer to the neighbor's place. Everyone is caught up (Yay! Magic emergency recall!) snacking on RMBs with the stereo playing. But my aggravation level skyrocketed (pun intended). Thanks to the rude behavior of others, my property is damaged, but since the animals are safe, I guess I will be content with that. 

Funny how the little poodles are braver than the big herding dogs, huh? lol The poodles look for the pops, the herders try to get away from them.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Do you have Border Collies? I would love to have one if I have the right living circumstance. My mom has a friend who just retired last week and she gardens to fix her insomnia, stress, and anxiety. I am not good at gardening at all and everything just dies on me. I would love to go hiking now but it is so hot outside as soon as I go around the block, both the dog and I immediately regret the decision and start walking back. lol Between the scorching heat and the daily torrential downpour, FL is super dead in the summer and nothing goes on around here. All the buildings such as restaurants, malls, and theme parks are built to be outdoors so there is nowhere to hide. 

I also highly recommend yoga not for exercise but for relaxation. It really helps calm your mind. The key is finding an instructor you like. For all fitness classes, I think the key is having an instructor with great taste in music.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

snow0160 said:


> Do you have Border Collies? I would love to have one if I have the right living circumstance. My mom has a friend who just retired last week and she gardens to fix her insomnia, stress, and anxiety. I am not good at gardening at all and everything just dies on me. I would love to go hiking now but it is so hot outside as soon as I go around the block, both the dog and I immediately regret the decision and start walking back. lol Between the scorching heat and the daily torrential downpour, FL is super dead in the summer and nothing goes on around here. All the buildings such as restaurants, malls, and theme parks are built to be outdoors so there is nowhere to hide.
> 
> I also highly recommend yoga not for exercise but for relaxation. It really helps calm your mind. The key is finding an instructor you like. For all fitness classes, I think the key is having an instructor with great taste in music.


I gets pretty flipping hot here, too. Good thing I am basically nocturnal, I can go for walks waaaay later than most folks will. 

Nope, no longer have Border Collies, I love them, but my last one, Rain, died off an auto-immune disorder at the tender age of 2 years. I am still not really over that one and I don't know if I ever want to deal with that again. Smart, sweet, extreme work ethic with a body that failed a beautiful mind. I have a rough collie. He's sweet and gentle, a huge graceless klutz with little interest in herding work, but he LOVES scent work and has a powerful bark and is perfectly happy to accidently scare a bad guy while trying to get attention. lol 

I was wondering about yoga. I was thinking once I get the floor finished, I might attempt to try it at home with videos (not the goat yoga video that people keep sending me - my goats are huge compared to those). I thought it might be interesting to incorporate the dogs with it, though. The poodles especially, seem rather empathetic and it might be a relaxing way to deepen our bond. 
Great idea, thank you!


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## Poodlemanic (Jun 27, 2016)

oH BK, I've had rough collies since I was a child! They are so sweet and so very trainable  I have a weakness for tri-colours, but that collie face...! Irresistible. Also I am probably at the same spot as you with sleep issues; i just feel it's my age and having a very responsible job. I LOVE yoga. I have an online subscription to Gaia Yoga (https://www.gaia.com) which I often do when I get home, as I'm making dinner lol. But I also go to yoga classes on my lunch hour. Being that I live in a very small town, they are not offered now until fall  So I appreciate my online subscription more now, until September arrives.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Two things that I recommend for stress and anxiety are music and comedy. My son did a high school paper on the health benefits of laughter. As we get older we laugh less and less, so I am always on the hunt for ways to laugh more. I subscribe to Pandora which has a comedy channel, watch standup On Demand, a sit com can work and the poodle never fails. Find your belly laugh again and any music that speaks to you. Sweet dreams and do try to lol irl


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Mfmst said:


> Two things that I recommend for stress and anxiety are music and comedy. My son did a high school paper on the health benefits of laughter. As we get older we laugh less and less, so I am always on the hunt for ways to laugh more. I subscribe to Pandora which has a comedy channel, watch standup On Demand, a sit com can work and the poodle never fails. Find your belly laugh again and any music that speaks to you. Sweet dreams and do try to lol irl


You bring up a good point. I used to love stand up comedies, the British comedies, etc. 
I don't remember the last time I actually laughed. I do, on occasion, watch the Just For Laughs Gags channel on Youtube, but again, not recently. I may need to try that again. 
Thanks!


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Each night you prepare for sleep, concentrate on the positive things in your life. Gloss on the strength you have shown in continuing. Tell yourself just how strong you are. Imagine the bad bits and you triumphing over them. Then carry out relaxing in bed exercises (you might know how) Finish by thinking of all the love you have for your loved ones.

Hopefully,  Eric. with his psychology hat on.


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