# Being on more than 1 breeders waiting list?



## Orla (Nov 27, 2012)

I contacted 4 breeders. One before the other three and was on their waiting list for a few months - but the litter ended up being only 1 puppy and they have nothing else planned for a while. So, I contacted 3 more breeders. I really like 2 of them after talking to them and they both seemed happy with me. They're both expecting to have litters early next year. I figured going on both waiting lists would be okay since something like only 1 puppy could happen again. Then, I read this and it said being on more than 1 waiting list is a big "no no"?


----------



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Standard poodles often have large litters. Toys only have a couple. What size are you looking at?


----------



## Orla (Nov 27, 2012)

outwest said:


> Standard poodles often have large litters. Toys only have a couple. What size are you looking at?


A toy


----------



## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

no experience dealing with this issue (yet), but i think it's fair to ask, if breeders can't guarantee you the puppy you're looking for and are willing to put people on their waiting list in numbers that possibly outnumber their expected litter size, how can it be wrong to get on more than one list? 

the courteous thing for the buyer to do if on more than one list is to take one's name off any other lists once a suitable puppy is found. now i know there can be consternation (especially if there is breeder jealousy involved), but i have also seen quite a few breeders who will tell you on their site that they don't have puppies, but their friends do and direct you to them. that's how i got my first lowchen, by referral to a breeder with an available puppy by a breeder i had contacted who had none available. 

i think once a good breeder identifies you as a desirable owner, s/he would rather have you own one of the puppies of his/her breed and thus help sustain the breed than have you go off looking for a pup of a different breed. maybe that's off the wall, but that's been my experience, having acquired both a puppy and a retired show dog without that much effort - and lowchens are far less readily available than poodles.


----------



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

If you were looking for a working dog where the litters are sometimes as many as 10 puppies or even more, it wouldn't be kind to put yourself on a whole bunch of lists. Since you are looking for a toy poodle I think it is fine to put yourself on more than one breeders waiting list. Sometimes toys only have one puppy. If you get one from the first breeder you can take yourself off the second litter so they can have someone else on the list or move the next person up. It doesn't hurt the second breeder. If you have to leave deposits, though, that might be a concern. I don't think toy breeders should take deposits until the puppies are born.


----------



## Orla (Nov 27, 2012)

Thank you both!

Neither require deposits until the puppies are a few weeks old


----------



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I think it is fine with a Toy too, but think in fairness you should let both breeders know you are on another list and will call them asap to let them know if the other has a pup for you to open that spot for someone else.


----------



## Orla (Nov 27, 2012)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> I think it is fine with a Toy too, but think in fairness you should let both breeders know you are on another list and will call them asap to let them know if the other has a pup for you to open that spot for someone else.


Thank you! 
I will do that


----------



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

You can tell them both how you were on a list and then didn't get a puppy and that you are willing to wait (because you are), but you do want a puppy.


----------



## spotsonofbun (Jan 3, 2013)

I was just going to ask a similar question 

I am open to either a puppy or an adult however rescue dogs that fit my requirements are very few and far between here in the UK so I was thinking at starting to look at reputable breeders.

So I am looking for a toy as well so you guys would think its fine to be on a waiting list and still keep my eyes open for a rescue and just tell the breeder immediately if I find a dog ?


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

When it comes to Toy Poodles, I think it is fine to be on more then one list, especially if you are looking for a specific size, color and sex.
I am not sure if I would tell the others though - not unless you actually got one from another breeder, because it might bump you down in the priority.
That being said, personally I am sticking with one breeder because she does not usually take deposits on young puppies - she just asks you to remind her what you are looking for on a monthly basis, but waits until they are old enough to do a full assessment before matching them with the right home. But she is one of the bigger show breeders, and will have more litters then a hobby breeder so my odds are better with her. Personally, I do not know how someone could commit to a dog before the breeder is able to asses the temperament! And for those of us looking for under or over size, that is also something that they can not begin to assess until 8 weeks, and will only be very sure about between 12-16 weeks, so it would be silly to put a deposit on a puppy that is only a few weeks old!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

spotsonofbun said:


> I was just going to ask a similar question
> 
> I am open to either a puppy or an adult however rescue dogs that fit my requirements are very few and far between here in the UK so I was thinking at starting to look at reputable breeders.
> 
> So I am looking for a toy as well so you guys would think its fine to be on a waiting list and still keep my eyes open for a rescue and just tell the breeder immediately if I find a dog ?


Another option you may want to think about, is contacting breeders that may have a young adult they want to rehome -- it's not a rescue and it's not a puppy, but it is a wonderful way to get a health-tested breed standard from a reputable breeder although not a pup. I got Sunny when he was 3 and couldn't be happier. Just another thought. Here in US, I found a search which brought up poodle breeders with adults available.


----------



## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I think it is a great idea to be on more than 1 list. Toys have small litters & if you are picky like color & sex then your odds are going down fast. Then of course you want the right temperament as well.

I will be having my 1 st litter soon & I have a list already. I doubt that I will have what some people want. Like I want to keep a male, active & coat for competition. I have a client that wants a Silver or Brown female, another interested in a male etc... Another wants a large white or Cream. Anyway, just have to wait & see. 

People should be on more than 1 list. No deposit.


----------



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I am not sure if I would tell the others though - not unless you actually got one from another breeder, because it might bump you down in the priority.


I tend to agree with you, Tiny Poodles. I think it is very important to tell a breeder if you found another puppy, but I wouldn't tell others, either. The only thing is - they might know and talk to each other.

An alternative is to be totally honest and ask bluntly if being on another list would effect their chances at one of the puppies.

By the way, I know of a litter of miniatures, all black males, from an outstanding sire and dam (one american and canadian champion, the other american champion). Show prospects for sure, but a pet or two also.


----------



## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

When I was looking for a miniature I was on two breeders' wait lists. Each knew about and spoke highly of the other. Neither required a deposit. I committed to telling them both my decision, just as soon as I made it. When I called the second breeder to tell her I'd chosen to go ahead with a mpoo from her colleague, she said, "She has beautiful minis! I'm happy for you. if I can ever be of help with any questions or anything, feel free to call me." And she meant it! I continued to have a relationship with both breeders, sadly one just passed away. 

Just be upfront with every breeder you contact, is my advice. (That's how I roll in life altogether.) It's my experience the poodle universe is very close-knit. Breeders find out all kinds of things about potential buyers from one another. And if you happen to be asked for a wait list deposit, _be clear_ on the refund policy! Happy puppy shopping, and best of luck!:clover:


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

In my opinion it would be very important to be honest with the breeders and let them know that you are on more than one wait list.


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

The thing is that you can't really account for every variable like breeders comparing notes about who is on their list - the best you can do is to try to impress the breeder with your suitability and seriousness and then do what you think is best to improve your chances of finding your ideal pup.
I guess that in a sense I am lucky being that I am going on my seventh in that I pass the suitability test pretty easily.
I did once a while back have a breeder have me all set thinking that I was getting a certain puppy, and then evaporate when the time came - when I finally got in touch she yelled at me that she had warned me that previous buyers get priority and that the previous buyer who was interested had decided to take it. Well she had never said that to me so I guess that she was keeping a number of people on the string for that one puppy. So "the list" works both ways - and they do not always tell us that there are others involved either!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CharismaticMillie said:


> In my opinion it would be very important to be honest with the breeders and let them know that you are on more than one wait list.


I don't know why a Tpoo hobby breeder who maybe produces zero to six pups a year would be shocked that buyers would be in contact with numerous breeders - and I would never ever lie about it if they asked me, however I would not be the one to bring it up.
And I think it is fairly unusual to be asked for a deposit on a Tpoo litter - and do not think that I would do it - not even on an already born pup under 8 weeks.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I don't know why a Tpoo hobby breeder who maybe produces zero to six pups a year would be shocked that buyers would be in contact with numerous breeders - and I would never ever lie about it if they asked me, however I would not be the one to bring it up.
> And I think it is fairly unusual to be asked for a deposit on a Tpoo litter - and do not think that I would do it - not even on an already born pup under 8 weeks.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


OK. I still stand by what I said.


----------



## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I know Sunny's breeder gets people's name on a list for her pups, and she has toys and miniatures. Someone might give her a deposit, especially since there are fewer pups, but I am sure she would return it if the person did not get a pup. I'd also be honest that I was looking for a particular kind of pup and perhaps on another list, too.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Yes, I know some breeders who will return a deposit for any reason at all, and some who will return a deposit of there is not an available puppy of the color and/or sex indicated at the time of deposit.


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Yes, I know some breeders who will return a deposit for any reason at all, and some who will return a deposit of there is not an available puppy of the color and/or sex indicated at the time of deposit.


Wow - does doesn't anybody consider temperament when choosing their dog?
No wonder there are so many bad matches out there!
Twice when I was previously waiting for a puppy from my favorite breeder I heard of somebody else getting a puppy from her that was the size and sex I was waiting for ( would have taken any color at that time )- I called her up and said how could you give that puppy to someone else when you know that I have been waiting, and her reply was this was completely the wrong dog for you, and she went on to describe a personality which was completely opposite of what I wanted - and wow was I glad to have a breeder thought about such things! Such a breeder was also probably why I was able to have 3 bitches who always got along - she made sure that number three was very submissive, and a real Dog's dog!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Of course temperament is considered. This is why many breeders will say that it is in your best interest to be okay with any color or sex so that the breeder can place you with the puppy that is best for you in temperament.


----------



## Orla (Nov 27, 2012)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Wow - does doesn't anybody consider temperament when choosing their dog?
> No wonder there are so many bad matches out there!
> Twice when I was previously waiting for a puppy from my favorite breeder I heard of somebody else getting a puppy from her that was the size and sex I was waiting for ( would have taken any color at that time )- I called her up and said how could you give that puppy to someone else when you know that I have been waiting, and her reply was this was completely the wrong dog for you, and she went on to describe a personality which was completely opposite of what I wanted - and wow was I glad to have a breeder thought about such things! Such a breeder was also probably why I was able to have 3 bitches who always got along - she made sure that number three was very submissive, and a real Dog's dog!
> 
> ...


That's why I have no preference on whether my puppy is a boy or girl. Personality/temperament is so important for me, especially as my other dog is extremely energetic and highly strung.


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Harlo said:


> That's why I have no preference on whether my puppy is a boy or girl. Personality/temperament is so important for me, especially as my other dog is extremely energetic and highly strung.


Are you buying the puppy long distance? I feel really blessed to now have a breeder who is very good and very honest in her evaluations of a pup but, I have been mislead by some very nice people in the past - I think the motivation to make a match is so strong that sometimes they do not even realize that they a re fudging it...so please if you cannot meet the pup before you commit, be careful with that - try to find some previous buyers to ask about how accurately represented to them their puppy was.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Of course temperament is considered. This is why many breeders will say that it is in your best interest to be okay with any color or sex so that the breeder can place you with the puppy that is best for you in temperament.


If temperament is being given due consideration, then nobody should be reserving a pup until an absolute minimum of 8 weeks - preferably older.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Orla (Nov 27, 2012)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Are you buying the puppy long distance? I feel really blessed to now have a breeder who is very good and very honest in her evaluations of a pup but, I have been mislead by some very nice people in the past - I think the motivation to make a match is so strong that sometimes they do not even realize that they a re fudging it...so please if you cannot meet the pup before you commit, be careful with that - try to find some previous buyers to ask about how accurately represented to them their puppy was.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


yes, but it's still easy for me to fly over before hand


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Tiny Poodles said:


> If temperament is being given due consideration, then nobody should be reserving a pup until an absolute minimum of 8 weeks - preferably older.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


There isn't any reason why you cannot do that. In that case, you would need to hope that there is a puppy left that has not already been placed and that it has the desired temperament. But, if someone is looking for a well rounded dog of sound temperament and is interested in a particular litter, and feels comfortable that the dam and sire will produce sound temperaments and trust the breeder to match them to the right puppy, it would make more sense to be on a waiting list much earlier and indicate the desired temperament.


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CharismaticMillie said:


> There isn't any reason why you cannot do that. In that case, you would need to hope that there is a puppy left that has not already been placed and that it has the desired temperament. But, if someone is looking for a well rounded dog of sound temperament and is interested in a particular litter, and feels comfortable that the dam and sire will produce sound temperaments and trust the breeder to match them to the right puppy, it would make more sense to be on a waiting list much earlier and indicate the desired temperament.


Sure,be on a waiting list- just saying that for a toy breeder it would be a little wrong to take deposits when the odds of having what a particular buyer wants is so low - I have only seen greeders, not reputable breeders ask for that.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CharismaticMillie said:


> There isn't any reason why you cannot do that. In that case, you would need to hope that there is a puppy left that has not already been placed and that it has the desired temperament. But, if someone is looking for a well rounded dog of sound temperament and is interested in a particular litter, and feels comfortable that the dam and sire will produce sound temperaments and trust the breeder to match them to the right puppy, it would make more sense to be on a waiting list much earlier and indicate the desired temperament.


And do you think that there is that direct of an inheritance of temperament? 
And maybe when I say that word I mean more then most - I want a puppy who is tail up confident, belly up human connected, a great retriever and athletic, not highly reactive/yappy,and with clean habits. Do you think that every puppy in a litter with sound tempered parents would have all of those traits?


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

That doesn't make any sense to me. If a breeder doesn't have a puppy available for you, you would get your deposit back.


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CharismaticMillie said:


> That doesn't make any sense to me. If a breeder doesn't have a puppy available for you, you would get your deposit back.


Well sure, I would trust my breeder that I have known for 15 years and gotten 2 poodles from and referred many others to, but trust a stranger to do that?
And would not having a puppy available to you include not having one that will lay belly up in my arms or is not a good retriever lol?
All I can say is that I am glad to have a breeder who does not sell a puppy until she knows exactly what it is that she is selling! She will listen to what you want, and will keep certain puppies in mind for certain people, but she will wait to see if they develop into what the person wants before any commitments are made!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Sure,be on a waiting list- just saying that for a toy breeder it would be a little wrong to take deposits when the odds of having what a particular buyer wants is so low - I have only seen greeders, not reputable breeders ask for that.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


There is nothing wrong with a tpoo breeder to take deposits on a waiting list. It shows commitment and seriousness from the buyer. Most deposits I have ever seen are fully refundable if the breeder is unable to match you with what you are looking for or they can put your deposit towards a future litter if you decide that what you want to do. I have not ever seen a deposit that isn't refundable under these circumstances and I have a standard poodle which generally come from a much larger litter, with those stipulations. 



Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

We paid a deposit on our tpoo on the understanding that it was refundable. We had to do our purchase "long distance" - well "awkward distance" to be more correct - and despite conversations/emails with the breeder of our choice he still had reservations about us until he met us in person. Therefore I completely understood he wanted a deposit to show our seriousness, particularly as we were first time owners. 

We happened to choose a time to make enquiries that coincided with the time when Viv was pregnant so it was not like we were going to have to wait ages for the pups to appear. Fortunately the breeder liked us following a quite stringent interview and was happy to go ahead, but it was still dependent on what pups Viv had, whether the breeder wanted to keep any for show, etc. We got lucky as she had 3 girls and we got one of them, he kept one for show and the other small one went to someone else on the waiting list who particularly wanted a small toy.

We were also constrained by the fact that numbers of toys are limited in this neck of the woods (no breeders on our island) and I believe Harlo has been having the same problem in Ireland. We have a bit less choice than the big ole US of A you know! LOL.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

hunny518 said:


> There is nothing wrong with a tpoo breeder to take deposits on a waiting list. It shows commitment and seriousness from the buyer. Most deposits I have ever seen are fully refundable if the breeder is unable to match you with what you are looking for or they can put your deposit towards a future litter if you decide that what you want to do. I have not ever seen a deposit that isn't refundable under these circumstances...


Yes, yes! This is _exactly_ what I am saying.


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

hunny518 said:


> There is nothing wrong with a tpoo breeder to take deposits on a waiting list. It shows commitment and seriousness from the buyer. Most deposits I have ever seen are fully refundable if the breeder is unable to match you with what you are looking for or they can put your deposit towards a future litter if you decide that what you want to do. I have not ever seen a deposit that isn't refundable under these circumstances and I have a standard poodle which generally come from a much larger litter, with those stipulations.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Eh, what would be the point of taking money from 10 people and giving it back to 9 of them - I think that you would find out if that buyer is serious if they are still looking for a pup when one is available and they come to hand you the money when they pick up the puppy.
I guess if you are living in a country where Tpoos are rare and you want to insure your place on the list it makes sense, but in places where there are enough options to wait for your ideal match, it still makes no sense to put deposits on one or two puppy litters...


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Everyone does what works best for their situation. . I do know of quite a few reputable toy breeders who take deposits and also some who do not.


----------



## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Just happened to speak with Sunny's breeder; she does not take deposits, but since toys and minis have fewer pups a few people have insisted and she took a small deposit to put them at the top of the list but she would not take until the pups are born. If a suitable pup did not come from the litter she will return the deposit or if the prospective buyer wants, she would hold it for the next planned breeding, but prefers not to. She also said many breeders ask for a deposit - she just prefers not to. She also may not know when she will breed next, as she is a much smaller breeder.

She also said that she has many more inquiries for puppies than puppies, so again that may be different.


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

liljaker said:


> Just happened to speak with Sunny's breeder; she does not take deposits, but since toys and minis have fewer pups a few people have insisted and she took a small deposit to put them at the top of the list but she would not take until the pups are born. If a suitable pup did not come from the litter she will return the deposit or if the prospective buyer wants, she would hold it for the next planned breeding, but prefers not to. She also said many breeders ask for a deposit - she just prefers not to. She also may not know when she will breed next, as she is a much smaller breeder.


If they are a known, quality breeder who gets a decent amount of interest in their pups, I would think that taking and returning and holding deposits would just make the breeders life more complicated - it would seem so much simpler to make the match when the actual puppy has landed.
Taking deposits on a breed that has small litters to me just speaks of someone who is more interested in "moving puppies" then making a good match (in the USA, where there is no shortage of breeders).


----------



## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Eh, what would be the point of taking money from 10 people and giving it back to 9 of them - I think that you would find out if that buyer is serious if they are still looking for a pup when one is available and they come to hand you the money when they pick up the puppy.
> I guess if you are living in a country where Tpoos are rare and you want to insure your place on the list it makes sense, but in places where there are enough options to wait for your ideal match, it still makes no sense to put deposits on one or two puppy litters...
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


You don't have to take deposits from everyone. But asking for a deposit ensures seriousness. Knowing a tpoo averages about 1-3 puppies it wouldn't be wrong to take a deposit from 5-6 people. That's much better then having a wait list of 5 people who tell you after your pups are ready for homes that they have bought a puppy from someone else or an entirely different breed for that matter. It is personal preference. If breeders feel confident enough in their breeding program to not take deposits on litters then that is there business and right. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't think their is anything wrong with asking for a deposit either as long as its fully refundable in the instance there isn't a puppy available that matches the families criteria. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

hunny518 said:


> You don't have to take deposits from everyone. But asking for a deposit ensures seriousness. Knowing a tpoo averages about 1-3 puppies it wouldn't be wrong to take a deposit from 5-6 people. That's much better then having a wait list of 5 people who tell you after your pups are ready for homes that they have bought a puppy from someone else or an entirely different breed for that matter. It is personal preference. If breeders feel confident enough in their breeding program to not take deposits on litters then that is there business and right. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't think their is anything wrong with asking for a deposit either as long as its fully refundable in the instance there isn't a puppy available that matches the families criteria.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Ahh, so a deposit means that you are on one wait list and stop looking?
I do not think it sounds right that 5 or 6 people should stop looking to wait for 1-3 puppies! Then the ones who did not get a pup go to the bottom of somebody else's list and it happens all over again- with the size of toy litters, one could do that for a decade and not get a puppy!
Since I have just one breeder that I trust to get the perfect match for me, I had never thought of this, but this thread convinced me that for the average Tpoo seeker, being on many lists is the only way to go, and that somebody trying to force you to be on only one via a deposit is selfish and wrong!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## poodlecrazy51 (Dec 31, 2012)

I seem to only find standard breeders that have contracts, that state, to reserve a puppy, a non-refundable deposit is required. They will even state, "no refunds for any reason". They will contact the buyers in order of when the deposits are received, to place the puppies. It is very frustrating to me. I do not feel I have to follow some unwritten law of "puppy buyer etiquette". We were a car dealer earlier in our marriage. We had friends and our vet, that still shopped for other brands elsewhere. We never took any offense. We wanted them to buy just the right car for them. You wouldn't want a car dealer to tell you, you can only look at my inventory, if you put a deposit down, and I wont give your money back, if you find what you want elsewhere. And if I find out, from another dealer, you put a deposit down on one of their cars, you can't have one of mine. And that is buying cars, not a living thing. We, as the people that give homes to all these puppies, and let's face it, most breeders keep 1 in their litter if any, we are doing THEM a service to home the rest of their produce. I think, we get to pick and choose from as many as we can find. Because WE have that dog in our home, with our children, and the UPS guy and our vet, everyday of that dog's life for 10-14 years. I see so many breeders state the line, "I only breed when I need a dog for my showing, my hunting", etc. Soooooo, they are counting on US to give the rest of the litter good homes. We are searching right now, for a puppy, and I am going to put our name on at least 2 litters. It infuriates me, that I will have to forfeit as much as $500 on 1 litter, to keep a chance to get a puppy, If I feel I need to walk away, Because I don't like them when I see them. We have gone through tremendous heartache this summer. We now, within one month span, only have our one spoo, the cream, in my profile pic. I need to change it as we had to give the red puppy to a trainer/behaviorist, that would know how to house her safely. Joon is not eating, won't play, my family and I are lonely for Jazz (the blue that died of cancer), and don't want to be in a hurry, but want to have the opportunity to find just the right puppy, to fit our lives and that will be a good buddy to our Joon. I need to protect my family and my Joon, from any more heartache. I resent that I have to give a breeder hundreds of dollars to have a spot on a litter not even born. That they may not return, even when they sell that pup to someone else. I think we should hand them a contract with what we expect from them. And require a refund, not just another puppy from another litter, if the dog is not what they say it is. Sorry, but I hope puppy buyers will not let a breeder be in the driver's seat. A puppy buyer should be in the driver's seat. I am going to be from now on.


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

poodlecrazy51 said:


> I seem to only find standard breeders that have contracts, that state, to reserve a puppy, a non-refundable deposit is required. They will even state, "no refunds for any reason". They will contact the buyers in order of when the deposits are received, to place the puppies. It is very frustrating to me. I do not feel I have to follow some unwritten law of "puppy buyer etiquette". We were a car dealer earlier in our marriage. We had friends and our vet, that still shopped for other brands elsewhere. We never took any offense. We wanted them to buy just the right car for them. You wouldn't want a car dealer to tell you, you can only look at my inventory, if you put a deposit down, and I wont give your money back, if you find what you want elsewhere. And if I find out, from another dealer, you put a deposit down on one of their cars, you can't have one of mine. And that is buying cars, not a living thing. We, as the people that give homes to all these puppies, and let's face it, most breeders keep 1 in their litter if any, we are doing THEM a service to home the rest of their produce. I think, we get to pick and choose from as many as we can find. Because WE have that dog in our home, with our children, and the UPS guy and our vet, everyday of that dog's life for 10-14 years. I see so many breeders state the line, "I only breed when I need a dog for my showing, my hunting", etc. Soooooo, they are counting on US to give the rest of the litter good homes. We are searching right now, for a puppy, and I am going to put our name on at least 2 litters. It infuriates me, that I will have to forfeit as much as $500 on 1 litter, to keep a chance to get a puppy, If I feel I need to walk away, Because I don't like them when I see them. We have gone through tremendous heartache this summer. We now, within one month span, only have our one spoo, the cream, in my profile pic. I need to change it as we had to give the red puppy to a trainer/behaviorist, that would know how to house her safely. Joon is not eating, won't play, my family and I are lonely for Jazz (the blue that died of cancer), and don't want to be in a hurry, but want to have the opportunity to find just the right puppy, to fit our lives and that will be a good buddy to our Joon. I need to protect my family and my Joon, from any more heartache. I resent that I have to give a breeder hundreds of dollars to have a spot on a litter not even born. That they may not return, even when they sell that pup to someone else. I think we should hand them a contract with what we expect from them. And require a refund, not just another puppy from another litter, if the dog is not what they say it is. Sorry, but I hope puppy buyers will not let a breeder be in the driver's seat. A puppy buyer should be in the driver's seat. I am going to be from now on.


I so agree with you! The wrong puppy for the wrong home can be such a disaster - selling the pups to whomever will put cash down even before they are born means that there is little, if any concern about making a perfect match and the odds of it going wrong are so much higher!
And while I am sure that a reputable breeder will return a deposit if they do not have a puppy of the color or sex that you asked for - how many are going to return the deposit because the pup has the wrong energy level for you, or is too reactive, or is not a good retriever?!
Wishing you lots of luck finding your dream Spoo!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

My experience from being a puppy buyer is. I spent 3 years researching breeders. First 3 years I did it all silently. I wasnt in the market for a puppy at the time but I wanted to know exactly what was out there before I was ready. In the beginning of the 3 years I fell upon my breeder and fell in love with his dogs. I continued my search because at the time I figured there was no way I would be able to afford one of his dogs. When it came time to welcome a puppy into our home I began contacting and talking to breeders. I wasnt satisfied with what any of them had to offer and I really didn't want to go outside of driving distance. I finally decided to give the breeder who I kept being drawn back too a call. His breeding program offered everything I was looking for and at this point I felt the only thing that could stand in the way was my price limit. 
I called him and talked to him for 2 hours. We instantly clicked. Finally I got the nerve up to ask him what he charged. It was 500 less then my limit. He didnt have a litter yet but had just bred his bitch and was waiting to confirm a pregnancy. He had a 500 deposit that was refundable at the chance there was no puppy that met our families needs or expectation. Or it could be placed on a future litter if I wanted it too. I figured I had waited 3 years and I knew that waiting for the perfect poodle was worth it. When the puppies were born, 9 puppies, only 2 where white, both we girls. We had a heart set on a boy but by that point we were so excited we asked if we could change our mind to a female and he obliged. 
My standard poodle exceeded my expectations. I ended up with a show prospect puppy, and now have been introduced to the show world and have a great support system and mentor. I had never intended to go this route with my standard, but was given a great opportunity and thankful for that.

So isn't it more important to find a breeder you fully connect with and build a relationship with and maybe have to wait for one of their puppies for a couple of years instead of putting yourself on several wait lists? An experienced breeder should already know what kind of temperament to expect from their puppies as well as color and conformation. My breeder was able to tell me exactly what he was expecting from his litter and he was pretty darn close when they were born. I understand that temperaments are really not determined until around 8 weeks, but a breeder generally should know from past litters what kind of temperaments they general produce. They also know what kind of exposure their litters will be subjected too during their growing process, I.e. kids, other animals, loud noises.. Etc. 
they should already have a sense of what their expectations are in a home for one of their pets.

Also, be open an honest to the breeder, explain your reasons why you don't want to put a deposit down. You never know what the breeder may offer you if they feel you are a great candidate for one of their puppies. Sometimes they may put things out there to discourage those who aren't serious, but it doesn't mean they aren't flexible to the right candidates.

And finally, I think all deposits should be up for a refund in any case a puppy is not given. 



Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

It is understandable that many toy breeders not take deposits because of the litter size. But I do not think that a breeder who does take deposits should be labeled a greeder.

As far as standard poodles, it is VERY common to require a deposit in order to be officially on the wait list. Litters can be much larger and it is in the best interest of the puppy and family for the puppy to be placed without delay for purposes of socialization and bonding. (While a reputable breeder will work to socialize puppies, the individual socialization that an owner can give is entirely different - puppy kindergarten, trips to Lowes, visitors to the home, visiting others' homes, etc.)

The purpose of a deposit with a standard litter is to prevent a buyer from suddenly deciding to get a puppy elsewhere when a suitable puppy that meets the needs and desires of the buyer IS available.


----------



## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Toy breeders should not take deposits unless there is a puppy for each deposit and you are guaranteed a puppy.

This is off topic, but one nice thing about being on the list is some breeders will let you visit the puppies as they grow. My dogs breeder encouraged it because it was more socialization for all the puppies. I was able to get to know the whole litter visiting every two weeks.


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

CharismaticMillie said:


> It is understandable that many toy breeders not take deposits because of the litter size. But I do not think that a breeder who does take deposits should be labeled a greeder.
> 
> As far as standard poodles, it is VERY common to require a deposit in order to be officially on the wait list. Litters can be much larger and it is in the best interest of the puppy and family for the puppy to be placed without delay for purposes of socialization and bonding. (While a reputable breeder will work to socialize puppies, the individual socialization that an owner can give is entirely different - puppy kindergarten, trips to Lowes, visitors to the home, visiting others' homes, etc.)
> 
> The purpose of a deposit with a standard litter is to prevent a buyer from suddenly deciding to get a puppy elsewhere when a suitable puppy that meets the needs and desires of the buyer IS available.


There is another difference between the sizes - Spoo breeders want to place them at 8 weeks, while it is pretty common for toys to be kept to 12-16 weeks. My breeder sometimes has them from 6-12 months waiting until the right home comes along! And she does a darn good job of raising them - I have known 3 people who got them in that age range from her and all were great, well adjusted poodles. But I understand that would be more difficult for a Spoo breeder to do. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

outwest said:


> Toy breeders should not take deposits unless there is a puppy for each deposit and you are guaranteed a puppy.
> 
> This is off topic, but one nice thing about being on the list is some breeders will let you visit the puppies as they grow. My dogs breeder encouraged it because it was more socialization for all the puppies. I was able to get to know the whole litter visiting every two weeks.


Being able to watch and choose your puppy as it grows sounds wonderful, but most of us are not close enough to do that - mine is a 6 hour drive from me.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

poodlecrazy51: I feel your pain as you explain your situation. I am sorry you are going through this. Not having ever purchased a spoo (I have always had miniatures and one toy) I have to believe there are some breeders that would not require a deposit? Perhaps contacting the local PCA office and speaking with someone there about your situation might turn up reputable breeders that do not follow that policy. I know "one size does not fit all" and I hope you find your new little one quickly without having the financial angst that you would like to avoid.

hunny518: Just commenting that not everyone wants to wait years for a puppy nor are they in a position to develop a relationship with a breeder over a period of time. Sometimes people just want to get a puppy now, in a few months, but definitely sooner than that, for many personal reasons and they, too, should be able to get happy, healthy, well-bred dogs without having to wait that long.


----------



## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

poodlecrazy51 said:


> I seem to only find standard breeders that have contracts, that state, to reserve a puppy, a non-refundable deposit is required. They will even state, "no refunds for any reason". They will contact the buyers in order of when the deposits are received, to place the puppies. It is very frustrating to me. I do not feel I have to follow some unwritten law of "puppy buyer etiquette". We were a car dealer earlier in our marriage. We had friends and our vet, that still shopped for other brands elsewhere. We never took any offense. We wanted them to buy just the right car for them. You wouldn't want a car dealer to tell you, you can only look at my inventory, if you put a deposit down, and I wont give your money back, if you find what you want elsewhere. And if I find out, from another dealer, you put a deposit down on one of their cars, you can't have one of mine. And that is buying cars, not a living thing. We, as the people that give homes to all these puppies, and let's face it, most breeders keep 1 in their litter if any, we are doing THEM a service to home the rest of their produce. I think, we get to pick and choose from as many as we can find. Because WE have that dog in our home, with our children, and the UPS guy and our vet, everyday of that dog's life for 10-14 years. I see so many breeders state the line, "I only breed when I need a dog for my showing, my hunting", etc. Soooooo, they are counting on US to give the rest of the litter good homes. We are searching right now, for a puppy, and I am going to put our name on at least 2 litters. It infuriates me, that I will have to forfeit as much as $500 on 1 litter, to keep a chance to get a puppy, If I feel I need to walk away, Because I don't like them when I see them. We have gone through tremendous heartache this summer. We now, within one month span, only have our one spoo, the cream, in my profile pic. I need to change it as we had to give the red puppy to a trainer/behaviorist, that would know how to house her safely. Joon is not eating, won't play, my family and I are lonely for Jazz (the blue that died of cancer), and don't want to be in a hurry, but want to have the opportunity to find just the right puppy, to fit our lives and that will be a good buddy to our Joon. I need to protect my family and my Joon, from any more heartache. I resent that I have to give a breeder hundreds of dollars to have a spot on a litter not even born. That they may not return, even when they sell that pup to someone else. I think we should hand them a contract with what we expect from them. And require a refund, not just another puppy from another litter, if the dog is not what they say it is. Sorry, but I hope puppy buyers will not let a breeder be in the driver's seat. A puppy buyer should be in the driver's seat. I am going to be from now on.


I think it's hard to compare this to buying a car. There are vastly more cars to choose from than there are puppies.

I think it's best to line up your expectations with the way the ball bounces so to speak.

I've bought puppies from breeders several times. What I did this last time with my two new tpoos that I bought just a short time ago was rather unorthodox and something I never would have done in the past...something never recommended. First, a little background. This breeder I found came highly recommended. I talked with other breeders in the area, handlers, exhibitors and people who had bought puppies from him in the past...even over the last 20 years someone who bought 4 puppies from him. This breeder is the president of the poodle club here and has shown at Westminster...been breeding for 40 years. The temperament and conformation of his dogs is highly regarded. I met him first, by phone, then in person. He liked me, could tell I was a serious and responsible, experienced dog person. I liked him too, liked what I saw. We developed a rapport and a meeting of the minds. When a breeder is good, you can hardly go wrong with any one of his puppies. They aren't going to be vastly different from one another. Any one of his puppies would have suited me fine. I did kind of want the brown one, but that was his pick. So, getting my $100 deposit in quickly assured me first pick after that. Other people showed interest too but had to wait for me to choose. He took the deposit when they were 5 weeks old, the first time I saw them. Normally, you don't get to choose. My last purebred pup was my Dobe and he was in another state. I let the breeder pick one for me. But this time I got to choose. So, I went back when they were 8 weeks and chose the only white one from one litter of four and a little wee black one from the other litter, which only had two puppies in it. 

I felt like $100 was really reasonable. He is a very casual guy and when I asked about a contract, he said, "I don't do contracts." See...the thing is, I won't buy a puppy from someone I don't trust. He told me his dogs were health tested for PRA and that was enough for me. He told me the average longevity and what dogs died of in the past. I know his show record. Seeing as how I must feel the utmost comfort and trust in the breeder I'm going with and he/she must feel the same about me from the beginning. I felt like no contract, such as health or neutering etc was needed. He didn't insist on neutering/spaying because he knew I was a responsible and conscientious owner from talking with me quite a bit. He said to do what I want with that. So, it was simple. I wrote a check, took my puppy plus the extra one which he said I could try out and bring back the next day if I decided against keeping him. lol. Of course, I kept them both and sent him a check for Maurice. 

So, I don't necessarily recommend taking such a leap of faith as I did. But it worked for me this time. I love my breeder. He's always available to help out and such a nice guy. I'm going to handler class tonight that he's teaching. He may co own Matisse with me and show him. We're still working that out.

So bottom line...find a breeder, not a puppy. Find a breeder you love and trust, whom you develop some sort of relationship with, who has an exemplary reputation, whom you can work with. Then all the rest will fall into place without so much complications and worry.


----------



## poodlecrazy51 (Dec 31, 2012)

does he have any toys that weigh 50#?????


----------



## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I think it's hard to compare this to buying a car. There are vastly more cars to choose from than there are puppies.
> 
> I think it's best to line up your expectations with the way the ball bounces so to speak.
> 
> ...


Well you know that I agree with that, and I've had such a breeder for 15 years, but not everybody is that lucky - sometimes they can only find a hobby breeder that does one litter a year, and that could make for a long wait. And if you are very rigid about what you are looking for like I am, that wait can get even longer...


----------



## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

poodlecrazy51 said:


> does he have any toys that weigh 50#?????


Maybe you just need to get 4 or 5 toy poodles! Just think, when they are all cuddled on your lap it will be your 50 pound poodle!!!


----------



## poodlecrazy51 (Dec 31, 2012)

LOL. I am thinking about that....a bundle of minis...There is a mini
breeder in our area, where my friend buys 2 at a time, over and over. She will go no where else. And I am in class with her minis, they are pretty and smart and wonderful.....your mini, liljaker is gorgeous.


----------



## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

poodlecrazy51 said:


> LOL. I am thinking about that....a bundle of minis...There is a mini
> breeder in our area, where my friend buys 2 at a time, over and over. She will go no where else. And I am in class with her minis, they are pretty and smart and wonderful.....your mini, liljaker is gorgeous.


Awwwww, thanks. I think Sunny is pretty special too! And, his temperament is as wonderful as he looks. You can't go wrong with a mini either.


----------



## poodlecrazy51 (Dec 31, 2012)

we had a mini I grew up with. Pepin. He was amazing. He raised us 5 kids. He thought he was 80#'s. We had him from when I was about 5 until I was well into my college years. My plan is to switch to minis as I get too old to lift my 67# girls up on the grooming table. Our standards have all thought they weighed 15# and fit just fine on my lap. I have to have a poodle, always. Your Sunny is breathtaking, and looks pretty big, too.


----------



## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Sunny is 14 3/4" and about 19 pounds. His breeder prides herself on her minis and has been told by more than one judge, "THIS is what a mini should look like -- a scaled down standard" and he really does. Her line is not fine boned and delicate; Sunny is agile and very solid. If someone sees a picture of him without a size reference, they think it is a standard. He is just perfect for me.

I adopted him when he was 3 1/2 from his breeder in Canada. He was around 17 pounds then, but pretty stressed, etc., so not eating that well. He was also neutered the month before he came to me, so his metabolism changed a bit. He does have a wonderful appetite now, so I have to watch his portions as I think he has a tendancy to develop the "American waist".


----------

