# I've never had this problem...



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I've owned many different breeds of dogs but I've NEVER had one NOT food motivated! Nor is Molly especially toy driven so it makes it difficult to train her to any particular task. So far at 8 months old we've managed sit, down, stop, no barking, and get it....it's just that I really want her to come when I call her & most times she totally ignores me.....even on a longline! Could really use some ideas????:argh:


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

I've never had that experience either, as all the dogs I've ever had are EXTREMELY treat motivated. But at obedience lessons, several people there have the problem you described. Our instructor advises them to keep an eye out for something the dog really likes...some dogs love squeaky toys but their owners hate them because of that horrible noise, so they don't buy them. Some dogs love canned cat food treats. In that case, the squeaky toy or whatever the dog likes, no matter how weird (maybe it's a ratty old stick the dog finds on a walk and runs around with?) is the perfect reward for obedience! But even if you can't find anything, your dog will always want your praise so use that. Our instructor says, be consistent, always use the same command, and start out cool. Once the dog does what you want, go crazy with praise! Do a few short training sessions per day and always end on a positive note even if you have to go to something they already learned a long time ago to end with. Some people also report success by crating the dog for a short time after a positive learning session, as somehow quiet time afterward reinforces what they've learned. Anyway, I think you've done amazing with what you've taught her already, and WHAT a cutie she is!!!

p.s. one other thing we do at obedience lessons sometimes is, one of us will hold back another person's dog while the owner wanders off a ways (the dog is on a long line for safety). Then the owner whirls around and calls the dog in an excited, happy way; the person holding the dog back waits just a second before letting go; the dog usually BOUNDS toward their owner and that teaches the dog a really fast recall. It really seemed to work!


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

How many different treats have you tried? I've had people tell me that their dog isn't very treat motivated, that the dog was easily distracted. When I asked them what treats they were using, it was usually snausages or pupperoni. Now, my dogs would think they had died and gone to heaven if I fed them that corn and sugar laden junk. However, they get a lot of real food so that might explain it. Anyways...I told these owners to try different things; chicken, lunch meat, cheese, hot dog. And that is my suggestion to you, unless of course you already did lol! Try even crazy things like carrots and other veggies. There is usually something a dog will work for. 

Different toys is another great idea. Squeaky, tug, rubbery, a ball. 

Maybe she is praise motivated. 

All dogs have a motivator. At least all the ones I've ever heard of did! It's just a matter of digging it out...that's easier with some dogs than others. Think about what your baby enjoys most. Also think about what you did to teach her what she does know. Then go from there.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

I had that problem with a few of my dogs. I finally figured out that Chatter would do anything for canned green beans (?!) Another dog I was fostering only liked cheap, nasty (9Lives) dry cat food. My dobe would work for my old work glove, Pelli loves bits of venison jerky. Bug works for squeak toys. Treasure just wants to hear that she's 'the bestest little kelpie girl ever!' but she'll settle for treats of any kind, too. lol Another foster (known for being picky) found getting a lick of peanut butter was worth working for. (stuff it in a baby food jar and let her have a lick or two then carefully put it back in my pocket - I train wearing either a fishing vest with pockets or an old Home Depot tool bag tied with the pockets at my back - no more washing my jeans with raw meat in them!). 

Just keep experimenting - you'll find what she likes. I think thats my favorite part - finding out what makes them tick. It's a fun puzzle.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Wow Thanx everybody! Well as far as treats we've tried quite a few! including stinky cat food,liver,cheese,& many of the commercial brands...I try to stay away from them as Molly has allergies that are under control....The things we have accomplished so far are because of 1 toy....it looks like 'Lambchop' from the Sherri Lewis series!!! but she loses interest in it too. As I am disabled I am at home so we spent many small periods of time 'learning' I get so exasperated when I call her & she looks at me with a "You callin Me?" I must say though, she has been the sweetest natured dog I've ever owned! I think she's training me LOL!!!!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Wow Thanx everybody! Well as far as treats we've tried quite a few! including stinky cat food,liver,cheese,& many of the commercial brands...I try to stay away from them as Molly has allergies that are under control....The things we have accomplished so far are because of 1 toy....it looks like 'Lambchop' from the Sherri Lewis series!!! but she loses interest in it too. As I am disabled I am at home so we spent many small periods of time 'learning' I get so exasperated when I call her & she looks at me with a "You callin Me?" I must say though, she has been the sweetest natured dog I've ever owned! I think she's training me LOL!!!!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

It could be precisely that - she is training you. And waiting each time to see what even-better-than-last-time treat you come up eith to keep her attention!

I have had some success with telling my very intelligent little dogs what amazingly good stuff I have in the treat pot this time, how very much they will love it, and how very very much I would like to keep it all for myself. Athough I have to admit that they are both highly food motivated - the merest whisper of "Chicken!" and they are rivetted, throwing behaviours at me in hopes of getting a piece.

I would try chicken. Or roast beef or pork - real meat, in largish chunks at first. But if I really, really want to give mine a reward that transcends all others, it is a few crumbs of home made cake. They so rarely get anything sweet that this is the ultimate high value reward!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I really try not to let her get away with a lot hahaha! What's very amusing about her lack of food or toy drive is when she's not 'feelin it' she'll politely take the offered treat and hide it in the sofa pillows or use her nose to push it under my bed! Housework now includes me seeking 'buried teasures' ......I guess 'Come' is gonna take some time:aetsch::aetsch::aetsch::aetsch::aetsch:


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## katbrat (May 8, 2011)

There were two dogs in the obedience class that I did with Lexi that were like that. Come to find out, they would do anything for peanut butter. They were both small dogs and the trainer put some peanut butter on a long handled wooden spoon so they could reach. That is what they worked for every time.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

I agree, there are many things to try. 

I know/knew a trainer Zak George - you may have seen him on Animal Planet - has/had a dog whos highest motivator was bouncing a balloon off her nose. This was a VERY high drive dog - silly that this was her favorite thing!

When I met them and performed with them, he used the baloon motivator for the trick at 5:21 in this video.






Even with my high food-motivated mpoo, I spent months of his puppyhood finding his highest value rewards. I was looking for commercial moist treats only, so it was expensive. I find a new motivator occassionally - found 3 over the weekend.

One is a funny story, slightly unrrelated.

We were at the Tommy Bartlett Exploratory and Jet was along of course. At the end we tried the new "Giant Lever" where you can pull a rope to lift a vehicle at the other end of the lever.

Photo of the Giant Lever: http://www.tommybartlett.com/module...av_id/2/page/1/id/16/name/GiantLeverNewin2012

We were messing around and playing with it when Jet grabs the rope and tugs on it - for a long time, even swinging himself off the ground! So funny! 

I'll be getting a stout robe for him to hang off of like a pit bull and save it for training reward since he loved it so much. 

Moral of the story - Even if you've had a lot of dogs, remember that each dog is unique and give them opportunities to show you what they like best!

I have been known to use (tiny) marshmallow bits when I'm desparate to get a dog food motivated.


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Is Molly free-fed? 
Is she overfed?

If her meal schedule isn't controlled it can be hard to develop food drive.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Absolutely not free fed nor overfed I also am a retired Tech, so fat dogs are a no no!! Molly weighs 9# and stands 10 inches at the shoulder. She is the only dog I've ever known that hates PNbutter! Food drive is nil & I just don't believe in starving an animal to train them! Toy drive is also low althrough when she decides to play she'll bring me her 'Lamb Chop' toy. Keyword is... when SHE wants to play. She really is a happy pup & very mellow for being so young She also spends 2 days a week with me at my son's house where there are 2 retrievers & 2 kids to play with. She is very teachable when I can engage her & I really feel that an excellent recall is something that could be, in a bad situation, a life saver for a dog & so far I just haven't found the key to her brilliant mind so the search goes on.......So far it isn't food or toys or acting liked a crazed Mommy that does it for her but DARN IT I'm gonna find that 'secret ingredient' and get her to "come" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!:alberteinstein::alberteinstein::alberteinstein::alberteinstein:


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## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

MollyMuiMa said:


> Absolutely not free fed nor overfed I also am a retired Tech, so fat dogs are a no no!! Molly weighs 9# and stands 10 inches at the shoulder. She is the only dog I've ever known that hates PNbutter! Food drive is nil & I just don't believe in starving an animal to train them! Toy drive is also low althrough when she decides to play she'll bring me her 'Lamb Chop' toy. Keyword is... when SHE wants to play. She really is a happy pup & very mellow for being so young She also spends 2 days a week with me at my son's house where there are 2 retrievers & 2 kids to play with. She is very teachable when I can engage her & I really feel that an excellent recall is something that could be, in a bad situation, a life saver for a dog & so far I just haven't found the key to her brilliant mind so the search goes on.......So far it isn't food or toys or acting liked a crazed Mommy that does it for her but DARN IT I'm gonna find that 'secret ingredient' and get her to "come" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!:alberteinstein::alberteinstein::alberteinstein::alberteinstein:


If SHE chooses to play, you can probably work from there. There's a great DVD on stimulating and building prey drive from leerburg.com. I can't describe the movements very well in words, but you take away the highest value toy and bring it out twice a day for 30 seconds of prey/play drive stimulation.

It sounds like she has way too much freedom. Why should she engage with you when she can get her need for socialization satisfied with dogs and kids, and playing by herself.

If you're going to make yourself more interesting you need to make sure that you are more interesting than the environment. One of my favorite trainers says "be more interesting than dirt!" It's not an insult, but it is really hard for people to do.

You can limit her access to the environment by keeping her leashed indoors. This also prevents her from choosing to refuse to come when called.

You can manage her meals, without restricting her food intake, to make interaction with you more valuable. Measure out her food for the day and keep it with you - in a pocket or bag if those are convenient. Feed her when she does *anything* that you like. Not necesarily obedience, but any cute little thing that you love about her. This keeps her interested in you and begins getting her to work with you.

Try keeping a journal of where she gets reinforcement. Patrolling the neighborhood from the top of the couch, barking, digging, eating meals, treats from you, playing with the kids, etc. After a week you'll see clearly where you can limit the environment to get her receiving her reward from you.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Tortoise, your comment about the marshmellows makes me feel so much better about something I did years ago working recall on my toddlers and my sheltie at the same time. All their recalls became perfect (to this day even with the kids as teens lol). I was playing/working with the kids (I know, that sounds terrible, but I had never been around kids before so I trained them like puppies). M&M's worked awesome - I will admit it, Chatter, the sheltie LOVED M&ms, too. I could call her from any distraction with the promise of an M&M. 

I DO NOT recommend them for dogs. Not ever, it was an accident (wrong pocket with the kids). But, she only got one or two in a training session and never as a regular treat. There are carob treats that may work, though. 

(My amazon will work for yogurt covered raisens. lol She even askes for R-gurt. lol Marker/clicker training works on ALL species - even nurses  )


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Thank you Tortoise for your excellence! Doling out her food might work! And her 'Lamb Chop' toy too! Her Environment other than the 2 days is already pretty limited as we live in an Apt.(I take her outside several times a day-on leash at all times.....& indoors she sticks pretty close to me. I'm never out of her sight! I did tether her to me when I potty trained her & she sleeps with me at night. As I mentioned, I am disabled. I walk with a walker that has wheels & she has mastered walking along side on leash without getting tangled so other than ignoring my recall I'm totally in love with her...that damnned elusive 'Come!'LOL!!!!!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Thank you Tortoise for your excellence! Doling out her food might work! And her 'Lamb Chop' toy too! Her Environment other than the 2 days is already pretty limited as we live in an Apt.(I take her outside several times a day-on leash at all times.....& indoors she sticks pretty close to me. I'm never out of her sight! I did tether her to me when I potty trained her & she sleeps with me at night. As I mentioned, I am disabled. I walk with a walker that has wheels & she has mastered walking along side on leash without getting tangled so other than ignoring my recall I'm totally in love with her...that damnned elusive 'Come!'LOL!!!!!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

So funny BorderKelpie but I think I probably did the same thing with my boys when they were young.....3 boys & all I had to do was Yell"DINNER" HA!HA!HA! They are all in their 30's now & their wives thank me for training them so well.......


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Mine are teens now and I can still whistle in a crowd and get an immediate response. 

It's all about the imprinting. lol

Good for you for training up responsive and respectful young men. You should be a proud Mama! Wish you had trained one for me. lol


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

*Problem solved!*

Spent Sunday night thinking. Spent all day Monday solving! 1st off I realized I had probably poisoned the 'come' command so I changed it to 'Cookie' then I took Tortoise's advice & doled out Molly's food with giving her a few pieces at a time with the word 'cookie' then later in the process going to another room & yelling 'COOKIE!' & Lo & Behold! She CAME!!!!---Now I have found the way to engage her attention to this command! At 1st I felt like I was starving her but then I realized I was only delaying her food over a period of time....and it worked! This a.m. I tested the 'cookie!' command again & she responded. Gonna keep this up for a few days then move it outside(on a longline) to 'distraction' mode! THANK YOU ALL FOR MAKING ME THINK!!!!:adore::adore::adore::adore:


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Good for you!!!!

Click! - and a bunch of treats to you!


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## stealthq (Aug 4, 2011)

I'm in the boat re: treats. So far, the only ones I've found are really motivating are canned sardines in spring water, and crumbles of goat cheese, both of which are completely impractical as a training treat. He'll accept a couple of other treats (freeze dried liver or hot dogs) but won't work for them. Mine is much better off working for play or praise.

I am having something of a good time with Kohl's pickiness, though. He won't turn his nose up at a treat he doesn't want. He takes it very delicately, holds it for a second, then carefully spits it out on the floor. He will even do this with peanut butter, though he has a hard time getting all of it out of his mouth. It's really funny in a pet store when an employee gets the 'perfect' treat and is so smug that he took it, only to have him spit it right back out


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## flyingpoodle (Feb 5, 2012)

MollyMuiMa said:


> Spent Sunday night thinking. Spent all day Monday solving! 1st off I realized I had probably poisoned the 'come' command so I changed it to 'Cookie' then I took Tortoise's advice & doled out Molly's food with giving her a few pieces at a time with the word 'cookie' then later in the process going to another room & yelling 'COOKIE!' & Lo & Behold! She CAME!!!!---Now I have found the way to engage her attention to this command! At 1st I felt like I was starving her but then I realized I was only delaying her food over a period of time....and it worked! This a.m. I tested the 'cookie!' command again & she responded. Gonna keep this up for a few days then move it outside(on a longline) to 'distraction' mode! THANK YOU ALL FOR MAKING ME THINK!!!!:adore::adore::adore::adore:


This reminds me of a suggestion on one of the "what to do if you're being charged by a strange and potentially aggressive dog" threads and someone suggested yelling "Come!" since so many dogs are trained to shy away from that command!

The highest value training treats we have are CountryPet Naturals dog food chopped into bite size bits.


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