# Resource Guarding & Biting



## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

I'm sure cooler heads will comment, but Basil did the same thing. Then, one day when I was transferring the laundry from the washer to the dryer, I waited to see what she would do, anticipating her move. As she was coiling back her pounce and getting ready to spring, I snatched the sock right as she was going for it and gave her a loud "NO!".

That was the last time she went for my socks or took interest in them like a playtoy. I got tired of her game and the teeth holes, and socks are stupidly overpriced.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

This is a serious situation now and I would recommend you reach out to a professional for assistance. When we hired a behaviorist to help us with Peggy’s resource guarding, the most important question she had to ask us was: _“Have you ever punished her for guarding?”_

If we had said yes, her job would have been much harder and much more urgent.

This isn’t meant to discourage you, just to stress the importance of getting some help and simply managing the situation until then. Keep items from her as best you can, and if she gets something, unless it’s dangerous, oh well.

That’s just for now, so you don’t inadvertently make things worse.

Your behaviorist will help you figure out a game plan for those situations. He or she will also give you a simple protocol to follow, likely daily, to start showing McIntosh that only good things happen when humans approach, and that she doesn’t have to defend her treasures. Anything that intensifies her anxiety around them, such as shouting or physical punishment, is a big no no. Try to see whatever she has as _the most important thing in the world to her_, at that moment. It can be hard for us humans to get that. And it’s easy to get angry and try to overpower an animal that is smaller than us. But you really don’t want to live with a dog who feels she has to defend herself by biting. That is a bad situation for everyone.

McIntosh is still so young. Now’s the time to address this the right way. I’m confident you’ll see some good results.

If you’d like to PM me, I can tell you who we worked with. (All done remotely.) Or you could start here: How to choose a dog trainer - CCPDT

They have an easy-to-use directory. I’d be looking specifically for a behavior consultant


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

@PeggyTheParti is probably the expert with sock stealing resource guarding poodles.

My first suggestion would be to remove access to socks. Can't resource guard socks if you can't access them. My puppy liked to steal stuff out if the sides of the laundry bin - I put a liner in the bin. You could also gate off or use an ex pen to block off the laundry bin. Any socks she gets are your own fault (and, unless dangerous I would consider them hers).

Secondly - right now you have taught her that socks are SUPER important. Worth fighting over. You are in a fight to the death over the world's most valuable resource - socks! Seems a bit silly, eh? Is there any reason to guard them this closely? Is she at risk from chewing socks? Does she swallow them?

I have a no chasing my dog policy to keep her from thinking stealing stuff is a good way to get attention, or that I will fight over stuff she has.
.If I want something she has, I either offer a trade, or start playing with something 'better'. Occasionally if it's something super exciting, like a bone, I will take her for a walk (she leaves it behind as walks are super high value rewards for her) and arrange for it to be gone when we get back. You are past this stage with socks, but are probably not past it with other things she may decide are good. Don't make the same mistakes with other things while you wait to try and solve this one.


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

Oona likes to snatch my daughter's cloth masks from her wrist when we are out for a walk. A very 'au courant' stealing habit. If she succeeds in getting it, and is off leash, she proceeds to zoom around like a maniac. Because it's rude and annoying, so we've made a big deal out of it (to her). When she zooms we ignore her until she's had her fun, then we approach to trade. Fortunately she isn't interested in eating the thing she snatches so the best way to de-escalate and hopefully have these things lose their attractiveness is to make as little a deal about it as possible and praise her for surrendering/dropping/trading when she eventually does.

I agree that with the aggression you've seen escalate, you should look for professional guidance.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

For Want of Poodle said:


> You are past this stage with socks, but are probably not past it with other things she may decide are good. Don't make the same mistakes with other things while you wait to try and solve this one.


Yes! Very good point. I recall this gem of anecdotal wisdom from Ian Dunbar:

_Years ago, I consulted on a case of a one-year-old dog that stole used Kleenex tissues and irritated her owner by playing Catch-Me-if-You-Can. The dog ran under a bed, the owner poked her with a broomstick, and the dog bit her on the wrist. I have since dealt with many similar cases. For paper-tissue theft to escalate to the point of both owner and dog physically abusing each other is extremely silly. It is essential that you teach your young puppy to exchange rolled newspaper, toilet rolls, or individual paper tissues for food treats so that she does not becomes possessive and protective of paper products. On the other hand, if the dog finds paper tissues intriguing, use them as lures and rewards in training, or give the dog one a day as a toy. And if you don't want your dog to steal paper tissues, flush them down the toilet._









Guarding Valued Objects


Object-guarding starts during puppyhood . Owners may fail to notice their adolescent dog becoming increasingly possessive and protective. Some may actually encourage their puppy's protective displays, thinking they are cute. It is natural for dogs to protect their possessions. In the wild, a...




www.dogstardaily.com





Peggy’s temperament has required some finessing of the trading protocol. Depending on the item, and where she’s at hormonally, she can go from happy participant to antagonized in the blink of an eye. I actually triggered a guarding episode this way.

It was very important to me that our behaviorist understood this and would adapt accordingly, and she absolutely did. It was not a one-size-fits-all approach, which is where a lot of well-meaning advice from friends and family can fail.

So we initially adhered to a strict “If it’s not dangerous, she gets to keep it” policy. Very quickly, we noticed the allure of found items began to fade. Such a relief for all! We progressed to, “We’ll trade her for it, but if it’s not dangerous, she gets the original item back.”

Now I’d say she gets the original item back much less often, but when she does get it back, it’s very rare that she cares about it. Paper towels, for example. Every once in a while, I’ll actually toss her one as a reward for eyeballing it but not snatching it. Whereas before she would have _frantically_ gulped it down to avoid letting anyone take it from her, now she gives it a halfhearted shred and then walks away. The temperature has been turned waaaaay down.

Another technique I started using, with the blessing of our behaviorist, is “Put a treat on the treasure.” Once we’d reached the point where she was looking up eagerly at our approach, I would bend right down as if to pick it up, but instead I placed a high value treat on it and walked away. My husband and I do a version of this pretty much daily now, in all sorts of everyday situations. When we’re playing, for example, I’ll bend down and put a treat on her tennis ball.

It’s positive reinforcement for letting us touch “her” objects, and it also generates a feeling of optimism where once there was anxiety.

_“Humans reach for my stuff and good things happen!”_

Even with a dog who’s never shown signs of resource guarding, these sorts of exercises make it much easier to take a dangerous item away when it really counts.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

When Phoebe has a sock, or her favorite, a SHOE, and I want her to leave it alone, I make eye contact, then turn and dart away. Chasing me is _even more fun_ than playing keep away with a sock. She gets attention, which is what she was seeking in the first place, and the sock (or shoe) becomes less intriguing, bit by bit.

As far as the scruffing, shaking, and spraying, I would be pretty ticked off and ready to fight back if that happened to me, and I can imagine you would be too. An aversive works best if they have no idea how it happened. A good example is the penny can for counter surfing. Dog is startled/surprised by noisy unpredictable can for putting nose on the counter and decides the counter is noisy and unpredictable. The person is not part of the equation in the dog brain, so the person hasn’t broken trust, and the counter is noisy and unpredictable in the dog’s head, regardless of if the person is there or not. McIntosh has learned that you want her socks and she needs to fight to keep them from you. She has not learned, at all, that she should leave the socks alone.

One last thought, have you tried bitter spray? It might be a simple bandaid until you have help, to make the socks less appealing.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Holy [email protected]#t! No spray, no sneaking up, no neck scruffs. Stop all of those thing. Dogs don't really getting angry about these things, but rather are made afraid of that thing. a dog that is afraid of something will work hard to make that thing go away. First they will try a growl as a way to say this is upsetting and I want it to stop. If the growl is ignored the next behavior will be to growl with a snarl that is a prelude to a bit. The bite will be the next behavior to be emitted and usually occurs when the dog has exhausted all of its other opinions. Your pup told you in no uncertain terms that you had hit the wall of how to respond to a person that doesn't listen to what the dog is trying to say. I am sorry you've had a bad bite, but honestly you probably deserved it and obviously in its way it worked because it has caused you to seek other advice.

Here is my other advice. Go bacik to the trading game for when your pup gets a sock or other forbidden object. You need something really good to trade for the sock (think a bite of cheese or boiled chicken or cooked ground beef). Be calm while getting the dog's attention and show what you are offering. Once they drop the sock they get the treat. You have to be calm and not loud, showing stress or grabbing at the sock. At first you won't need to say anything, but as the dog understands the situation better you can add the order to drop the sock (or whatever) and to leave it so that you don't have to swoop in to get the forbidden item. Also you should be able to switch from food rewards to life rewards like a little play with an appropriate toy.

You have to be very patient, persistent and consistent with this strategy (think weeks not days). You have to apply the same strategy all of the time and you can set up situations to teach the drop it and leave it and you should do that. By having changed methods over and over you have made this pup very confused. What has happened is roughly equivalent to teaching a toddler walking, running and hopping down the block by working on one of thsoe each for five minutes at a time with no warning that a change is about to happen.

And one more thing one of the first things to do to deal with unacceptable behaviors is to manage the environment to avoid the problem you describe. In other words pick up all socks and invest in a hamper that the dog can't gain access to.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

lily cd re said:


> No spray, no sneaking up, no neck scruffs. Stop all of those thing. Dogs don't really getting angry about these things, but rather are made afraid of that thing. a dog that is afraid of something will work hard to make that thing go away.


I wish every dog owner could read this.


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## Michigan Gal (Jun 4, 2019)

Teach your dog "leave it". Start with low level items and use treats. Once she understands leave it and that a reward is imminent, watch her around the basket and tell her leave it as soon as she alerts to it, don't wait for her to move in. The closer she is the more difficult it is to distract her from the prize. Once she looks at you, give treat and praise. Leave room. Repeat, repeat, repeat. She is smart, she'll catch on.

I also would not put peppermint in the spray bottle. It stings the eyes and some experts say it is a toxin to dogs. Plain water works fine if you are going to spray


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Most people when I ask why the dog should give the item back say something along the lines of 'Because it's MINE!'.

I'm of the opinion that humans are expert resource guarders. We have a whole system of laws dedicated to determine who owns things and punishing people who dare to touch/take/break something that isn't theirs. No wonder we overreact when dogs take something that's 'ours'.

My dad, for example - don't you ever dare touch his plate or food without permission unless you want your head bitten off. Don't even ask. 

I have at points been INFURiATED at people for touching my things. I lived with a roommate who stole my eggs. I still haven't forgiven her, and wouldn't lend her a thing if she asked! 

I also have 'i'm gonna MAKE them give it BACk!!!' as my first instinct when a dog steals something.
Learning patience, tolerance, and strategy to get past my own innate resource guarding has taken me some work. I still don't extend the same courtesy to other humans as often as I should! 

I find the intersection of human and dog psychology that comes in dog training to be pretty fascinating.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

lily cd re said:


> And one more thing one of the first things to do to deal with unacceptable behaviors is to manage the environment to avoid the problem you describe. In other words pick up all socks and invest in a hamper that the dog can't gain access to.


This part is so easy and completely under your control - just keep socks away from your minipoo. Keep laundry baskets up high, tall hampers with lids, no socks on floor and sort dirty laundry on a high surface etc. Same with other popular items like shoes, Kleenex etc. Store up high or in closets with the door shut.

It will make life with your minipoo so much easier (yes more work on your part) and in a year or two you can bring everything out and your more mature dog will ignore them ..... if you are strict about keeping this stuff away. Set your dog up to be successful and you'll be happier.

Definitely play those trading games - do it during tv commercials - a few minutes a day maybe a few times a day. 



tundra said:


> She has been getting increasingly aggressive with this.


I know it's hard to see when you are in the situation with your puppy - but you have set up the increasing aggressive behavior - and you are in control to stop it. Your poor dog was stuck in a cycle of having to protect itself.

It helps to post questions here at PF for feedback early on - or get a professional trainer when you see a problem is growing - don't wait till it's out of control.

Sadly your friend's advice to spray mint was the worst - try spraying mint into your eyes - see how it feels to your dog. It seemed innocuous until you really think about it. There's more effective, kinder ways to deal with problems. And perhaps if you have any mint spray left, you can spray your friend so they understand this is not dog training. 

I hope you can work back to a good relationship with your dog.


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Most people when I ask why the dog should give the item back say something along the lines of 'Because it's MINE!'.
> 
> I'm of the opinion that humans are expert resource guarders. We have a whole system of laws dedicated to determine who owns things and punishing people who dare to touch/take/break something that isn't theirs. No wonder we overreact when dogs take something that's 'ours'.
> 
> ...


I love this perspective so much. I think we could all do with more curbing of our anthropomorphism as regards to dog motivations, and more thoughtfulness on the imposition of human values on animal lives.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Actually reading the posts tht followed my first one reminds me to say that resource guarding is probably strongly driven by evolutionary adaptation to do it. In a situation where you can't be sure when, where or whether you will get another meal holding fiercely onto the one you have (and by extension guarding other things for which the owner feel value for) is a pretty good strategy.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

lily cd re said:


> Actually reading the posts tht followed my first one reminds me to say that resource guarding is probably strongly driven by evolutionary adaptation to do it. In a situation where you can't be sure when, where or whether you will get another meal holding fiercely onto the one you have (and by extension guarding other things for which the owner feel value for) is a pretty good strategy.


Could this be why trading sometimes backfires? That solicitation increases the perceived value of the “meal” they currently have?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

For Want of Poodle said:


> I have at points been INFURiATED at people for touching my things. I lived with a roommate who stole my eggs. I still haven't forgiven her, and wouldn't lend her a thing if she asked!


This made me laugh.  And also, I feel furious on your behalf. How rude!


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## PowersPup (Aug 28, 2020)

Topper just stopped trying to steal paper towels and tissues when we started ignoring him when he did it. That approach is slowly working for socks. He steals them and prances away, but no longer chews on them. He'll lie down and rest his chin on them, then leave them on the floor (like a typical teenager). The ONLY time we try to take anything away from him is when the item is potentially dangerous, such as a peach pit rolled up in a napkin, or a flower bulb the squirrels have dug up in the garden. Sometimes "leave it" works if I'm the one trying to get the item away. Topper will not easily trade for these high-value items, so when he gets them, we _run_ to get the string cheese. Just the act of running to the kitchen is often enough to distract him from the item. When it isn't we sometimes have to steal the item back and he will growl at us. We try to make the process as quick as possible so it doesn't escalate. We don't punish him for growling and do try to give him something like a stuffed kong afterwards to get his endorphins back in circulation.

Now we check the garden for loose bulbs before Topper gets to go out. An ounce of prevention....


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Could this be why trading sometimes backfires? That solicitation increases the perceived value of the “meal” they currently have?


I suppose that could be part of it. This definitly is why the thing you offer has to be obviously better than the thing they already have. If I was a dog and had a sock that smelled wonderfully of my owner and I was being offered a stuffed toy I would probably keep the sock but if I could trade a sock for a really luscious smelly piece of chicken or cheese I'd give up the sock in a heartbeat.


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## andyvee (Sep 25, 2021)

I think getting a dog trainer makes sense. But before you do, it might be worth first teaching leave it and drop it. Those two key fundamentals will help. If she has a sock, just use the right commands. It will take time. I recommend looking up resources from kikopup on youtube for this. She's great. Lastly, just don't make the sock exciting when she does have it. If you make a big fuss when she has it, it's rewarding. Definitely don't treat. Instead use a high value toy to get her to drop it.

Side note: I think this is why some behaviorists believe to not use soft plush toys for dogs. It teaches them a bad habit to chew on anything soft, like a sock .If you have soft plush toys, I'd recommend to stop. Although i'm no expert. So definitely get advice or make your own informed decision,


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## tundra (Nov 30, 2020)

Thanks for all of the responses, I know my wife and I have found them to be helpful. 






PeggyTheParti said:


> This is a serious situation now and I would recommend you reach out to a professional for assistance. When we hired a behaviorist to help us with Peggy’s resource guarding, the most important question she had to ask us was: _“Have you ever punished her for guarding?”_
> 
> If we had said yes, her job would have been much harder and much more urgent.
> 
> ...


Point taken, and PM'd. Since the incident described above we have not punished her at all for grabbing things, and it has been smoother sailing. 




For Want of Poodle said:


> @PeggyTheParti is probably the expert with sock stealing resource guarding poodles.
> 
> My first suggestion would be to remove access to socks. Can't resource guard socks if you can't access them. My puppy liked to steal stuff out if the sides of the laundry bin - I put a liner in the bin. You could also gate off or use an ex pen to block off the laundry bin. Any socks she gets are your own fault (and, unless dangerous I would consider them hers).
> 
> ...


Point taken about socks not being valuable. The only reason I had really cared about them, was one of my coworkers (one of the two other people I knew with poodle's when I got mine) lost his standard poodle puppy a few months back, after it had ate a plethora of socks/underwear (a friend of his was watching it at the time). Bummer situation. 

I removed the laundry basket she was climbing into; although I have to chuckle as I had already replaced a shorter one for this one... _*somebody*_ keeps growing! 🙃 

Good advice about the walk as a reward, for something else. 



PeggyTheParti said:


> It was very important to me that our behaviorist understood this and would adapt accordingly, and she absolutely did. It was not a one-size-fits-all approach, which is where a lot of well-meaning advice from friends and family can fail.
> 
> So we initially adhered to a strict “If it’s not dangerous, she gets to keep it” policy. Very quickly, we noticed the allure of found items began to fade. Such a relief for all! We progressed to, “We’ll trade her for it, but if it’s not dangerous, she gets the original item back.”
> 
> ...


This is really good advice. We have been putting this into practice, allowing her to keep things and putting treats on things. Can't say she minds more treats! 



lily cd re said:


> Holy [email protected]#t! No spray, no sneaking up, no neck scruffs. Stop all of those thing. Dogs don't really getting angry about these things, but rather are made afraid of that thing. a dog that is afraid of something will work hard to make that thing go away. First they will try a growl as a way to say this is upsetting and I want it to stop. If the growl is ignored the next behavior will be to growl with a snarl that is a prelude to a bit. The bite will be the next behavior to be emitted and usually occurs when the dog has exhausted all of its other opinions. Your pup told you in no uncertain terms that you had hit the wall of how to respond to a person that doesn't listen to what the dog is trying to say. I am sorry you've had a bad bite, but honestly you probably deserved it and obviously in its way it worked because it has caused you to seek other advice.
> 
> Here is my other advice. Go bacik to the trading game for when your pup gets a sock or other forbidden object. You need something really good to trade for the sock (think a bite of cheese or boiled chicken or cooked ground beef). Be calm while getting the dog's attention and show what you are offering. Once they drop the sock they get the treat. You have to be calm and not loud, showing stress or grabbing at the sock. At first you won't need to say anything, but as the dog understands the situation better you can add the order to drop the sock (or whatever) and to leave it so that you don't have to swoop in to get the forbidden item. Also you should be able to switch from food rewards to life rewards like a little play with an appropriate toy.
> 
> ...


Thanks @lily cd re I really need this post. It was *SUPER* helpful. I have been so close to the situation and have just been getting frustrated, and have been losing the patience part. She had been biting at my wife the day before this incident had happened. Thanks for helping me to step back and get some perspective and understanding.

We have taken a hard turn this week and have been implementing these things. We moved the hampers, so she has not been able to find any socks. There have been no more instances of frustration the pooch and humans. 


--

Tundra


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

We’re all cheering you on! Keep us posted.


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## Starvt (Nov 5, 2019)

Glad to gear there has been good improvement! I highly suggest you get the book Mine! by Jean Donaldson. Ebook is pretty cheap on Amazon. It's one of the ultimate books for resource guarding.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

When you are trying to stand straight in the middle of a tornado it can be hard to make sense of what to do so to speak. Now that you have escaped the tornado calmness will help you avoid having it strike again! I wish you great success and hope you know we really all are here to support you.


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