# Pacing



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think quite often it is a result of being walked on a short lead at a speed that won't let the dog trot. I have to walk very briskly to keep up with my toy dogs, so I bet few people could keep up the pace for a standard!

I'm sure there can be structural issues, too.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Pacing maybe more of an 'emotional' thing than structural. An urge to get up and do something . . . . . anything! Simply an outlet for some kind of a mild Obsessive/Compulsive balance.

Bored animals in cages will often pace.

If either of mine showed any signs of pacing I'd take them both out for a run. Or grab a tug toy and drag them up and down the hall.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think the question was about the gait, rather than the activity? That is what I was answering, anyway!


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

Countryboy said:


> Pacing maybe more of an 'emotional' thing than structural. An urge to get up and do something . . . . . anything! Simply an outlet for some kind of a mild Obsessive/Compulsive balance.
> 
> Bored animals in cages will often pace.
> 
> If either of mine showed any signs of pacing I'd take them both out for a run. Or grab a tug toy and drag them up and down the hall.


 Yah, I was asking about the gait.  BUT...I can agree with your definition of the behavioral issue too. fjm, I agree, that could be the issue...however, all the dogs I've seen pacing were off lead...they could go as fast as they wanted to. One of the poodles was doing agility even.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

If you are referring to the gait, pacing in horses is a natural gait and they race that way. I've always thought that meant they were born with that ability.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Ahhhhh . . the gait! Duh! lol

Tonka, Watson *our summer guest*, and Spud use all three gaits from time to time . . gallop, trot and pace.

Spud has a fourth when he's excited in the snow. In gazelles I think they call it 'pronking' . . . bouncing all four feet off the ground at once.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

petitpie said:


> If you are referring to the gait, pacing in horses is a natural gait and they race that way. I've always thought that meant they were born with that ability.


 Right, they are born with the ability; after all, they cannot really change the way that they move...so structurally something must be different about them. At least, that's how it goes in my thinking.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Perhaps pacing structure has been proven or researched in horses by now. (Seems like everything is on-going research). I would think trotting and pacing race breeders would want to know about the possibilities of increasing the speed at those gaits, and so research might look in depth at structural differences for comparison. 

For showing purposes, does it matter whether the poodle paces or trots?


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Are we referring to the same side back and front legs moving forward together? Do show judges look at this movement, also, for comparison?


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

petitpie said:


> If you are referring to the gait, pacing in horses is a natural gait and they race that way. I've always thought that meant they were born with that ability.


Speaking of horses, they were bred with that ability, and on purpose. It's hereditary. Examine the various horse breeds and you'll note that very selective breeding produced these qualities. Some examples are the Paso Fino, Quarter Horse, American Saddlebred, Thoroughbred, etc. The Paso Fino has a very collected gait while the Thoroughbred was designed for speed and endurance. The Quarter Horse, as it's name implies, is a sprinter. 

A dog, horse or person's gait is defined by biomechanics or conformation. I'm not sure why some dogs are described as "beautiful movers" while others will camel walk or "pace." I think you must look to physiology and anatomy for answers. 

Here's a video of a dog pacing: 




Here's an interesting article about dogs and the pacing gait: Pacing in Dogs and Animal Chiropractic - Animal-Chiropractors Forum


> With Dogs you might see this when they are exhausted from a long hike or walk. They can tend to fall into Pacing, this almost shuffling gait, as if to conserve energy. But like a EKG treadmill test bringing arrhythmias to the surface by stressing the heart, if your dog begins to Pace after his "treadmill test" following you on a forced march, it reveals in my opinion that the nervous system has to fall back on a more primitive or compensatory gait program. Overuse (like overuse or overheating the nerves in MS patients) of this normal gait program has exhausted already compromised nerve tracts that carry and facilitate this normal gait program. I believe this is where Vertebral Subluxations are evidenced in many but not all cases. There are obviously other more serious intrathecal and extrathecal (within the spinal cord and from outside) that need to be ruled out. Also some dogs naturally do this. My belief, as with designing for a Bulldog is that it is a genetic neurologic deficiency or defect that expresses itself in a pacing gait. One man's opinion.


And another: http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/saortho/chapter_91/91mast.htm


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

I'm not an expert on breeding pacing horses but it's my understanding that breeding for a pacer will not necessarily give you one. 

Only certain breeds of horses or classes for horses are allowed to show as "gaited." Do show poodle classes allow for "pacing" in the show ring?


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

petitpie said:


> I'm not an expert on breeding pacing horses but it's my understanding that breeding for a pacer will not necessarily give you one.
> 
> Only certain breeds of horses or classes for horses are allowed to show as "gaited." Do show poodle classes allow for "pacing" in the show ring?


Exactly. I was vague in my above post. _Certain _horse breeds were developed and bred for a particular gait, ie., the Paso Fino, the American Saddlebred, Tennessee Walking Horse, etc. Others, like the Thoroughbred or Arabian, were bred for speed and endurance. 

I can't answer the question about poodles and pacing.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

petitpie said:


> Perhaps pacing structure has been proven or researched in horses by now. (Seems like everything is on-going research). I would think trotting and pacing race breeders would want to know about the possibilities of increasing the speed at those gaits, and so research might look in depth at structural differences for comparison.
> 
> For showing purposes, does it matter whether the poodle paces or trots?


In the show ring, the dog needs to gait. Now, I will say that all of my poodles pace or gait simply depending on the speed of the activity and their arousal. My boy who is a champion will happily pace if we go on a leisurely walk. What I have found is that there is an art to getting them to start out on the right gait. It is sort of like getting a horse to start out on the right lead. What I learned in conformation class is to sort of do a slight collar pop or a little bit of tension on the lead if necessary when beginning to gait so that they start out gaiting rather than pacing. If my dog starts out in a pace, I can quickly switch them to a gate with collar tension/minor non-corrective pop (if that makes sense? just slightly bending your rest so the lead gets tighter for a second). I also have found the speed in which we start moving impacts whether we get a pace or a gait as well as how focused the dog is. If I get them aroused and focused before we start moving, I have a better chance of starting out with a gait.


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## phrannie (Jan 8, 2011)

*When Moj was young, maybe a year old...I mentioned to a breeder that he sometimes paced (which is what that spanial is doing in the UTube vid)...and sometimes he did a four beat walk just like my Tennessee Walkers. She advised I get him xrayed, because being a GSD, trotting should be very easy for him, I should be suspicious that something is going on structurely. When he was four, I did have him checked out...arthritic hips and spondyliosis...pacing happened when he was getting tired. If he'd been a Fila, pacing would be expected...different gaits are due to structural anomolies... 

I've had TWH's for 25 years, and have one who was a "natural" walker....even barefoot, she would ramp from a flat walk into a running walk. My gelding had to be "taught" to use his body for a running walk (he's wonderful at it now, he just had to learn)...and my husband's gelding couldn't do a running walk if his life depended on it...however, he does a foxtrot with ease. All three horses are built much the same (powerful necks and chests), but with subtle differences in the angle of the shoulder and length of back. *


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

Very interesting topic! I don't think I've seen a dog walk like that dog in the video! I do feel bad when I walk Leroy, that he has to keep up with ME, so I try to give him as much off-leash time as possible. I don't know what it is about the poodle's movement, but it is so mesmerizing and beautiful. I always find myself staring at Leroy and his beautiful walk. A lot of labs has a stubby looking walk. Is this pacing? A man at the dog park kept staring at Leroy trot off and he said "Wow. Your dog walks like a show dog." I find it interesting that random people who do not have the technical eye for dog movement always comment on Leroy when he walks or runs. My husband told me he was driving by a large field with some ponies. He said he saw a pony from miles away, squatting to pee. He said it looked just like Leroy LOL. I don't know what it is about horses but they remind me of standard poodles.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

Okay, found this video:


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I don't like that video because what it shows as pacing is actually walking. There is a difference. Pacing is moving at the speed of a trot but with both front and back leg on one side of the body moving together.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

http://nicholnl.wcp.muohio.edu/DingosBreakfastClub/BioMech/BioMechGaits3.html

Compare the racing pace to the dressage trot. The racing pace is a 'pace' in dogs and the dressage trot is a 'gait' in dogs.

This diagram shows pace vs. gait (trot).

Walking and pacing are easily confused, as happened in the above video. However, there is a slight difference. When walking, the two legs on the same side will not move in perfect unison. One will touch the ground slightly before the other.

ETA: Rowan's video does show pacing and gaiting correctly, though, sidenote, that dog looks a bit old and stiff the way it moves!


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I don't like that video because what it shows as pacing is actually walking. There is a difference. Pacing is moving at the speed of a trot but with both front and back leg on one side of the body moving together.


I'm glad you pointed that out because I couldn't figure out what exactly "pacing" meant. Trying to research it, I just came across that video and anyone else searching for it would have easily assumed the images shown in the video as correct. I also did not see Rowan's specific statement of "Here's a video of a dog pacing" - oops!:bulgy-eyes:


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## stealthq (Aug 4, 2011)

petitpie said:


> I'm not an expert on breeding pacing horses but it's my understanding that breeding for a pacer will not necessarily give you one.


True. American Saddlebreds are probably the best example, since they have Naragansett Pacers in their background to get two of their five possible gaits (slow gait and rack). They actually are not supposed to pace in the show ring (though many do). Ever. It's a major fault. 

A pace is like a trot except the legs on the same side are moving together rather than the diagonal legs moving together. The slow gait and rack are 4-beat gaits with the same footfalls as the walk. The slow gait is about the same speed as a trot, the rack should be as fast as you can go while remaining collected. Lots of Saddlebreds will pace if they aren't prepared for a cue to slow gait or if they are pushed too hard in a rack. Lots of Saddlebreds _can't_ pace or gait no matter how much training is put into them. That's fine, though, plenty of love for the three-gaited horses in the Saddlebred community as well


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Ah . . I see now. 

I read all the previous posts . . also talked to my breeder this morning . . and I realize that 'gait' is used in the Poodle world *and maybe the horse world too???* in a way that it's not used anywhere else. 

A gait *in the outside world* refers to pattern of limb movements. And there are several of these patterns . . . walk, trot, pace, canter and gallop. Plus a couple of sub-categories.....

In the ring, the dog is at a trot, I think.

So _now_ I know what y'all are talking abt! Thanx.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> In the show ring, the dog needs to gait. Now, I will say that all of my poodles pace or gait simply depending on the speed of the activity and their arousal. My boy who is a champion will happily pace if we go on a leisurely walk. What I have found is that there is an art to getting them to start out on the right gait. It is sort of like getting a horse to start out on the right lead. What I learned in conformation class is to sort of do a slight collar pop or a little bit of tension on the lead if necessary when beginning to gait so that they start out gaiting rather than pacing. If my dog starts out in a pace, I can quickly switch them to a gate with collar tension/minor non-corrective pop (if that makes sense? just slightly bending your rest so the lead gets tighter for a second). I also have found the speed in which we start moving impacts whether we get a pace or a gait as well as how focused the dog is. If I get them aroused and focused before we start moving, I have a better chance of starting out with a gait.


I never really thought about it until I got Sunny. I was amazed at his "gait" -- I remember he was very very reserved when I first got him home (scared more like it) and our walks were actually me walking and him closely following. When I spoke with his breeder, she said, "try a slow jog" and wow, I felt like I was in "Best in Show" :beauty: and then it occurred to me -- THIS is what he was more comfortable doing and as soon as I started, he was off!!! (It is beauty in motion --- love a poodle gait).


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Ok, now I am confused --- maybe it is the trot that I like --- whatever they do in the conformation ring is what he does and it is beautious!!!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

In dogs, "gaiting" is trotting. Hope this clears the confusion! .


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## stealthq (Aug 4, 2011)

Countryboy said:


> Ah . . I see now.
> 
> I read all the previous posts . . also talked to my breeder this morning . . and I realize that 'gait' is used in the Poodle world *and maybe the horse world too???* in a way that it's not used anywhere else.
> 
> ...


In the horse world, 'gait' is used in the same way as you have described. It gets a little confusing when you add in the 'slow gait' for the Saddlebreds, but it's just the name of a particular gait. One possible difference is that when we describe a horse as being 'gaited' (or 5-gaited), we mean they can do all of the show gaits - walk, trot, canter, slow gait, and rack - not just walk, trot, canter (a 3-gaited horse).


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I took some videos of Leroy pacing and trotting. I never realized he paced while he walked on a leash! I just never paid attention. Amazing what you can learn on this forum! Sorry about the bad video quality, I used my phone.

Pacing:





Trotting? Or walking? (this is the speed Leroy prefers to walk, but I cannot keep up with):


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

In the first video Leroy is doing a walk and then transitions into a pace as he moves faster. Watch the timing of his legs closely and you will see that when he's walking one leg touches the ground ever so slightly before the other leg on that same side. As it becomes a pace, both legs on the same side are moving *the same direction" in unison.

In the secod video, Leroy is trotting because his front and rear legs on any given side of his body are moving in opposite directions.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Does that answer the original question? Pacing in dogs at least doesn't sound like it's about structure. In horses I'm not so sure......

If anyone if fond of classic movies, "Friendly Persuasion" has Gary Cooper and Naragansett Pacers racing in it.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> In the secod video, Leroy is trotting because his front and rear legs on any given side of his body are moving in opposite directions.


And it looks like he gets in to a bit of a canter toward the end of that 2nd video . . . not quite a gallop.

I always thot my guys were multi-gaited . . so talented, eh?  lol


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

petitpie said:


> Does that answer the original question? Pacing in dogs at least doesn't sound like it's about structure. In horses I'm not so sure......
> 
> If anyone if fond of classic movies, "Friendly Persuasion" has Gary Cooper and Naragansett Pacers racing in it.


 Well, sort of....I have seen dogs that are unable to gait, or trot, or whatever you call it. They either pace or "gallop". So, structurally, there has got to be something different!! Funny, but it sounds to me like dogs that gait _can_ pace if they want (Trev does it very rarely...only if he's walking beside me AND looking over his shoulder at me...usually when I have treats. ) but dogs that pace naturally, as in that's their normal way of movement, cannot gait. 

Thanks for all the replies everyone, I've enjoyed reading everything!!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I think that most dogs will break into pace from time to time and that it has nothing to do with structure. I do think that structure can play an additional role, though, causing a dog to favor pacing or to struggle with trotting.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I think that most dogs will break into pace from time to time and that it has nothing to do with structure. I do think that structure can play an additional role, though, causing a dog to favor pacing or to struggle with trotting.


 I would agree that dogs who occasionally break into pacing, but normally use a trot as their normal gait, do not have anything different about them structurally. However, the dogs that pace exclusively DO have something different...my eye can see it but I can't put my finger on what it is that's different about them. I've noticed that generally they have very round, highish croups and low set tails, plus they are usually cow-hocked. At least, the dogs I've seen were. The dog in the video that Rowan posted wasn't cowhocked and her tailset seemed normal to me, however, she _was_ able to trot, she just _preferred_ to pace. Like I said before, some dogs are (or seem to be) obligated to pace...I guess those are the dogs I was asking about.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Yes, this was an interesting discussion about a particular four-footed movement.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

There are a few reasons why a dog paces:
A squarely built dog that stands lower in the withers than the croup, has a natural tendency to pace to avoid leg interference.

Due to Fatigue, to help alleviate strain.

A dog that is too short(length vs height) usually lacks angulation in one end or another, and often in both. Sometimes, if rear angulation is better he may become a habitual pacer to keep the hind feet from stepping on the front.

Sometimes pacing is the result of injury or strain in the loin area, or it can be due to too much arch in the back(roach back), which restricts action of the croup muscles.

A dog will move in the way that is easiest for him whether to alleviate pain, or because of habit resulting from poor conformation. 

Here is a picture of my miniature, Fergie, gaiting. This bitch flies around the ring, and can keep up with a lot of the larger dogs(too bad I cant lol). This picture was taken at the local KC sanction match after she took Best Champion in Show (champions did not compete in the breed judging) and two of her puppies took a puppy group placing(two and three). Her movement was often admired during our show and go's and matches.


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