# How much "clumsy" is normal in puppy?



## mom24doggies

Both Trev and Raven were that way...Trev was pretty clumsy until about 9 mo- 1 yo actually, Raven has grown out of most of it, I assume because he's smaller. Both have long legs without a whole lot of extra muscles. Their hips are fine, although Trev's knees have a few issues...they rarely luxate, but if I pick his leg up funny they will occasionally. Both of them were/are also skinny like you described Jazz...a little bony even. To this day Trev is still pretty slim, no hip bones or anything though. I think Raven is going to end up a tad bulkier, but we'll see. As a pup, when Trev ran into things or stuff got in his way, he would trip and fall...Raven still does that. 

To me, Jazz sounds like a normal gangly awkward puppy...big dogs with longer legs especially are super clumsy. I think that because Bonnie is smaller AND she has slightly shorter legs, she was a little more coordinated. Give him a few months, he'll straighten out...I'd be willing to bet on it. The only thing that concerns me about what you described is that when you push down on him he falls....but if the vet seems to think he's ok, I wouldn't worry too much. Again, remember, he's only 10 wks!


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## outwest

Thank you so much for your thoughts, mom24. Yah, when I was doing my 'exam' he does fall to the ground when I push down on his rear a little, or else he is sitting because I am pushing on him. It's like his legs are not terribly strong or coordinated sometimes. I keep thinking it is because I am used to Bonnie's build. At his age she was already up on her hind legs peering out the front window. 

Other than this clumsy issue, he is happy, playing, talkative, and fitting in really well. 

When you say 'luxate' what do you see/feel? I always think of that as knees, but his knees are one thing that seem sturdier. 

His feet are loooking huuuuge.

Should I give him some more time or have his hips xrayed? He just seems kind of wobbly when he tries to do zoomies.


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## CharismaticMillie

Just relax! No do not x ray him so young. You cannot look at them and know anything between 8 weeks and 6 months or so. Legs will grow in back and they will look like a frog! Then front legs will catch up. Then something else will grow and they'll be all awkward again. It's called the puppy uglies.

Eta: I'd stop pushing on his rear. It's not necessarily good for their hips.


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## mom24doggies

outwest said:


> Thank you so much for your thoughts, mom24. Yah, when I was doing my 'exam' he does fall to the ground when I push down on his rear a little, or else he is sitting because I am pushing on him. It's like his legs are not terribly strong or coordinated sometimes. I keep thinking it is because I am used to Bonnie's build. At his age she was already up on her hind legs peering out the front window.
> 
> Other than this clumsy issue, he is happy, playing, talkative, and fitting in really well.
> 
> When you say 'luxate' what do you see/feel? I always think of that as knees, but his knees are one thing that seem sturdier.
> 
> His feet are loooking huuuuge.
> 
> Should I give him some more time or have his hips xrayed? He just seems kind of wobbly when he tries to do zoomies.


 I mean I feel a little click, and then when I feel his kneecap it is out of place just a little. It's so slight that unless you were looking for it you wouldn't notice. The only reason I did was because I know minis have knee issues and so I was keeping an eye on him.  I'm sure Jazz's are fine, standards don't really have that issue as far as I know. 

I think X-rays are up to you and your vet. If you really think something is off, then maybe you should. After all, you are the one who can see/feel I'm not me! And I'm sure others will chime in with their opinions, too. If it were me though, I would wait...as CM said, it takes a while for everything to catch up and even out and get it together! 

It could be that he sits down because he's a smart cookie and thinks that's what you want...have you been working on sit? Raven is really smart like that, he might even pass Trev up in the smarts department. OR it could be that Trev is just more stubborn...that is a definite possibility!  

It's good to hear he's fitting in so well! I had a difficult time with our third dog, Dusty, but I think it's because he's a bossy little boy. Jazz sounds pretty laid back!


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## outwest

Yes, he knows how to sit. I give him teeny weeny crumbs of treats. He seems very bright. Only one accident in the house. He also seems a little full of himself. Echo gets out of his bed and Jazz trots over there and plops down looking all proud of himself for getting in Echo's bed. 

I am a little paranoid because I had a standard with lousy joints and it was a life long issue, but it has been 15 years since she was a puppy. I only remember her badly sidewinding as a puppy, which he doesn't do. He just trips and falls and collapses at the oddest times. 

Mom24, nope, no clicking feel or sound (good). His thighs are wimpy feeling.
CM, okay, okay. I won't run out and xray the clumsy kid and try to relax. I don't push on his hips, I just did it once or twice to check him. LOL. 

He is so different...


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## akimpix

Thanks for bringing up the question Outwest.

I had a similar question about Tutu. He is (was?) too pretty clumsy, but I think he's getting better now! He use to run into things and roll over, but not nearly as much anymore. He's a good walker, and puts a smile on a strangers face when I walk hem around the "hood."

One thing that (I think) I'm noticing is that his left hind leg swings out when he walks. And, in my opinion, he does tend to side wind a tad to the right especially when he walks on a leach. If he's not attached to a leach, I don't see the left leg problem that much. 
On the other hand, Tutu is my first dog, and I don't know how sophisticated my eye is on detecting such things. Is this something that a vet needs to see?


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## outwest

I don't think what Tutu is doing is something a vet needs to see. Many dogs are not perfect and don't walk in a perfectly straight line. If he doesn't seem in pain, it is probably normal for him. Jazz just doesn't seem as together and firm on his feet as Bonnie was, but he is a much bigger dog. He is a slimmer build, too. Tutu and Bonnies mama was very muscular. Is Tutu muscular or more like his tall slim dad? 

I guess I shouldn't compare Bonnie and Jazz. They are totally different types of breedings. Jazz is just so clumsy!


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## Rayah-QualitySPs

outwest said:


> Jazz is 10 weeks old. I got him two weeks ago. He's doing great, growing like a weed, except for one thing. He is really clumsy.
> 
> He is super long legged and not nearly so muscular a build as Bonnie. He is about 13.5 inches tall and 12.5 pounds (which seems too light to me) at 10 weeks old.
> 
> I keep telling myself he is growing so fast and is so long legged and is a much bigger dog than she was and that is why he trips and does a nose dive on a clump of grass.
> 
> If I push down gently on his rear, he drop to the ground.
> 
> My concern is his legs seem ungangly for him like his mind says go and sometimes his legs don't go.
> 
> Anyway, are full sized standards like this as young puppies or is this abnormal and something I should be concerned about?
> 
> How much weakness/clumsyness is normal in a standard puppy, especially in the rear (although his front end is clumsy, too).
> 
> He just seems SO ungangly compared to Bonnie as a puppy! We are getting very attached to the little bugger and if I need to take him back I want to do it before we fall to much in love with him (although, we might be beyond that point now).
> 
> Is this kind of thing something a lot of show style standard poodles have? He needs to be able to hike and run with us as an adult! LOL


Dear Outwest;

Take three deep breathes. You know those cleansing ones! In thru the nose out thru the mouth.

Your puppy sound like a normal poodle puppy. Often that is what I find so funny about standard puppies how one minute they are running and the next they are head over heels. This is not Abnormal. Growth splurts cause puppies to be uncoordinated.

That you push a little on his bum and sits shows intelligence. He wants to please you. That is the only thing I find different between girls and boys that boys always want to please and girls are um maybe but what do I get out of it!

Jazz is a boy right? Every poodle puppy is different but you studied Bonnie so much right now you are comparing apples to oranges. You boy will mature into his body - give it time. 

His weight and height sound just fine to me. 

He will be a puppy for quite some time so enjoy this time. Look forward not back.


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## outwest

Thanks for the reassurance, Rayah. I am comparing apples to oranges. My first standard as a kid was a poor conformation sweet boy. My first standard as an adult was Clara and she had bad, bad hip issues and she was from show lines. I almost didn't get another standard poodle, but decided to try again and searched out one from more agility, athletic lines and got Bonnie. Bonnie has always been well coordinated, muscular and super athletic from day one, but she lacks the long legs we all love and is smaller than most. This time I thought I would try Clara's more elegant style again and was getting paranoid because Jazz isn't all put together the way Bonnie was. He is also of a slimmer type build than she is. 

It is almost like they are two different breeds. 
WHAT FUN! 
I will stop comparing them. 
I still want to beef him up a little, though.  

He seems all leg (and devil eyes). I took this this morning. He has shmutz on his nose as usual. AND I shaved his face! I DID IT!:


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## Ladywolfe

Outwest, my Oliver was beyond clumsy, and I worried like you are. It literally took until he was about 3-4 months old before he stopped falling and tripping over nothing. Of course, in my case, he was a rescue, and I think he may have been caged a great deal and not had the best chance to develop. 

My boy is now 7 months. Today I was grooming him and said, "Well, next I am going to need you up here", and I patted a table in front of me. I wasn't expecting it, and he jumped right up onto the table and sat looking at me.

I am sure your pup's awkwardness will pass, and you are going to see that lovely poodle stride galloping across your yard just "out of the blue" one day soon!


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## outwest

Thank you so much Ladywolfe! His mama would fly up with precision onto the grooming table. I just couldn't see how he would ever do that when he trips over a lump of grass. LOL


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## mom24doggies

outwest said:


> Thank you so much Ladywolfe! His mama would fly up with precision onto the grooming table. I just couldn't see how he would ever do that when he trips over a lump of grass. LOL


Oh he will...just give it a bit.  Trev flies up onto my 3' bed with ease, and he's only 17" tall with the kind of build Jazz has. Poodle babies are so funny and awkward...I call them Big Birds because they look like Big Bird in Sesame Street! All legs and beak and fluff lol.


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## TrinaBoo

Abby is 16 weeks old now and finally getting that solid build to her. When I got her at 7 weeks, she was a little bit shorter than my toy (8 in). Before I knew it, 2 weeks went by and she was definitely taller than Trina. I measured her last night and she is 17 in! She went through a VERY clumsy stage from 9 - 12 weeks or so. Once that growth spurt happened, her steadiness was gone! She seemed to have long legs but then finally about a month ago she started filling out nicely everywhere else. It is most noticeable over her hip bones. I can't feel them as much thankfully. Now she has her goofy smiles with missing teeth. I have been through stages with Abby worrying about how she walked, ran, sat down but now she does all that normally! In a couple months you will be thinking...Wow, I have such a graceful poodle!


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## Indiana

I'm no breeder but my Indy is a 26", long-legged beauty and her hips stuck out like Jazz's too, until she turned a year old. FINALLY she gained some weight and at 45 lbs she now has some nice muscle instead of that heart-breakingly starved look! She wasn't clumsy but I'm thinking your boy is just dazzled with his world and so interested in everything he's not taking notice of clumps of grass and whatnot  But Indy's sister Maddy is built like Bonny; she's 23" tall and solid muscle, very coordinated and agile. I've talked a lot on this forum about how high-energy she is, but she's also very clever and more aware of her world than Indy, who is more mellow. Not to say that personality goes with the tall elegant, frame, but that's my girls  Your Jazz is going to be stunning!


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## outwest

I feel much better. I had visions of Clara all over again. Jazz is not particularly mellow. He wants to investigate everything and loves toys. Yah, I don't like those hip bones sticking out. The boy needs more meat on his bones. He eats like a pig. I didn't want to overfeed him as he is already eating three meals. I increased his food today and for lunch he finally left a bit.


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## CharismaticMillie

For a puppy that will end up being larger in size, better too lean than too heavy, better on the joints!


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## outwest

How big is tiger, CM? I did the little height/weight chart before I shaved his face and it's saying adult size 27 inches! Holy crap. I hope that's not right. I will do it again in a month and see if it is the same. I did want a bigger dog with long legs. I think I got it.


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## CT Girl

I do think he just needs to grow into himself. I had an Aussie before Swizzle (near the top of size according to the breed standard). One thing that shocked us with Swizzle was how coordinated he has been even as a very young puppy in comparison to Zack. We thought it was a poodle trait to be so coordinated but it probably is because he is short (a toy). About the skinny hips and thighs Swizzle was all bone but at his exam a month ago the vet remarked at how well muscled he is. I think time and good food and exercise will take care of that issue. How was he for the first face shave?


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## outwest

It was his second or third face shave, but he was okay - not too thrilled with it. I needed my husbands help holding him. I didn't cut him, so I suppose that was good. I was nervous near his eyes!


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## CharismaticMillie

outwest said:


> How big is tiger, CM? I did the little height/weight chart before I shaved his face and it's saying adult size 27 inches! Holy crap. I hope that's not right. I will do it again in a month and see if it is the same. I did want a bigger dog with long legs. I think I got it.


Tiger is 25 inches tall. 27 inches is huge!  That is bigger than Henry, whom I consider BIG!


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## outwest

Yah, I hope that is wrong! LOL. His sire is 25 and his dam 22.5, so I wouldn't think he'd be that big. I am hoping the little chart thingy is off since he is so young.


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