# Breeder business practice question..



## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I'd like to see dogs rehomed because they're done with their show career and have had their 2-3 litters throughout their life, and the breeder wants to place the dog in the best pet home possible. I'd love to adopt a retired show dog personally.

Though the breeders that get puppies and get puppies just seem like they want to have more litters to me?


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## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

Fluffyspoos said:


> I'd like to see dogs rehomed because they're done with their show career and have had their 2-3 litters throughout their life, and the breeder wants to place the dog in the best pet home possible. I'd love to adopt a retired show dog personally.
> 
> Though the breeders that get puppies and get puppies just seem like they want to have more litters to me?


There are many breeders that have "foster" homes for their females. They give their females to good homes and in return the female has to go back to the breeder for the 2-3 litters. That would be hard for me to give up my dog for months at litter time.


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## partial2poodles (Feb 11, 2010)

I think its very difficult....the whole breeding thing. You spend a fortune aquiring just the right new pup with the goal of bettering your kennel. But its rare that its the perfect dog. If its the picture of perfection in looks, it might be skittish, vicious while being bred or have allergy issues. So you have to decide if you want to continue feeding another mouth or place it so you can make room for a different dog. This is so hard because true dog lovers don't discard, but take in MORE....there is always a sad story of a dog being neglected or in need of medical help. So I can see WHY people need to reduce the number of dogs sometimes.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I do understand why some breeders rehome at the end of a dogs breeding life, but it bothers me. I could not do it. I feel that dog should who has rewarded its people with puppies and done its share should be allowed a life of leisure in the home it is familiar and comfortable in. Puppies acquired for a breeding program I do understand because they do not always end up being what one had hoped for.


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## Dogsinstyle (Sep 6, 2009)

I agree with Arreau. I think one should consider why they breed in the first place. I adore my poodles, and enjoy (almost) every minute I have with them. The connection I have with them is priceless to me. Disposing of an adult after it has served its purpose producing puppies would not come easy. They are first and formost my treasured companions.
One very good reason to keep the older dogs is you can get a first hand look at how they age, and have a good sense of their health. It is hard to do that even if you keep in touch with puppy buyers over the years.
Carole


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Honestly if a breeder kept all of there foundation dogs and never placed them in new homes, these breeders would end up with a bunch of dogs ........ maybe even become a animal hoarder 

I personally do not mind if a breeder rehoming some of their dogs that they no longer use in their breeding program. These dogs get to have family attention and more fun once they are spayed and neutered. 

If I kept every cat I started with or bred that was my favorite I would be 20 cats deep by now :wacko: Thats out of the question. My first American Bobtail aka Luna I still have she is a special cat and I love her I plan to keep her and one of my stud males Iggy is my baby I can't part with. Iggy only had one litter but his temperament is so good so I decided to keep him also. 

Since my sister and I no longer breed American bobtails I have been placing all of my breeding stock in pet homes. I see nothing wrong with it I am not throwing them away they are going to LOVING homes. It would be one thing as a breeder to place animals in a loving home and another to take unwanted breeding animals to a shelter that would just be cruel and some BYB do this when they can not sell their puppies or no longer use the animals anymore.


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## Trillium (Sep 1, 2009)

I've got to agree with Arreau. I do understand why some breeders would rehome their breeding stock once they are done breeding, it is a logical business move. However I couldn't do it. I could never explain to my kids, husband or myself why their beloved pets need to be rehomed just because we aren't breeding them any more. Honestly I would be worried about a breeder that regularly did such a thing because I'd question their motives.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> I'd like to see dogs rehomed because they're done with their show career and have had their 2-3 litters throughout their life, and the breeder wants to place the dog in the best pet home possible. I'd love to adopt a retired show dog personally.



I think it's somewhat a selfless act for a good breeder to chose this route. It cannot be easy for them. But in order to improve their line, they must be able to invest the time in those particular dogs. 

Suri was not bred after being shown, but her breeder and daughter were in tears the day I got Suri. It was exciting and heartbreaking at the same time. 

I too would consider this type of situation again if that was an option for me. Bred or not.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Trillium said:


> I've got to agree with Arreau. I do understand why some breeders would rehome their breeding stock once they are done breeding, it is a logical business move. However I couldn't do it. I could never explain to my kids, husband or myself why their beloved pets need to be rehomed just because we aren't breeding them any more. Honestly I would be worried about a breeder that regularly did such a thing because I'd question their motives.


Totally with you Trillium. I want to see a breeder as committed to their dogs, who should be their beloved pets first and foremost, as I expect the people who buy my pups to be. FOREVER HOMES. A dog should not be taken out of the home they love when it has "outlived its usefulness".

To avoid having too many, then long before one begins breeding one should have plans in place about what you will do in the future. Co-ownerships, wonderful foster situations...there are options available that are win/win situations for all involved, where everyone is in a happy, loving home without giving up the dogs who got you where you are in the first place, dogs who deserve a lovely retirement where they are should already be part of a family and know they are loved.

Thinker is living with me because my Mom died and this is where she wanted him to be. He is not "useful" to me but I love him. Iris and Wiz are not bred, but I love them. Holly will be having her last litter shortly and will be spayed, but I love her. I have a relationship with every one of these dogs and I could no more give them up than my kids when they were younger. Out with the old, in with the new does not cut it for me. That is why I now have co-owners and why some of my boys are in wonderful foster homes. 

If it is a kennel situation, that is a totally different story. BUT, that being said, I would not buy from a breeder who kennels their dogs, nor would I sell to a breeder who kennels their dogs.


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## Vibrant (Dec 7, 2009)

My mother got two of her labradors as retired brood bitches. The breeder was extremely careful who she placed her girls with, and quite honestly, I know they both had a much better life with Mum than they would have as part of a much larger pack.
I don't have any retired breeding dogs, but I did place my beloved Seiko, at six years of age, with my son and daughter-in-law. Seiko turned out to be too timid to succeed in higher obedience levels and agility, which is what I wanted to do with her. We have limits on the number of dogs we can have in our municipality, so I couldn't keep her and obtain other dogs I could work with in performance. Seiko has adjusted very nicely and when she comes to visit, she always makes it known that she wants to go home with my son. I know I did the right thing for her. 
Dogs are adaptable, and many times it is better for a breeder to place them in loving homes than try to look after them all themself.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Vibrant said:


> My mother got two of her labradors as retired brood bitches. The breeder was extremely careful who she placed her girls with, and quite honestly, I know they both had a much better life with Mum than they would have as part of a much larger pack.
> I don't have any retired breeding dogs, but I did place my beloved Seiko, at six years of age, with my son and daughter-in-law. Seiko turned out to be too timid to succeed in higher obedience levels and agility, which is what I wanted to do with her. We have limits on the number of dogs we can have in our municipality, so I couldn't keep her and obtain other dogs I could work with in performance. Seiko has adjusted very nicely and when she comes to visit, she always makes it known that she wants to go home with my son. I know I did the right thing for her.
> Dogs are adaptable, and many times it is better for a breeder to place them in loving homes than try to look after them all themself.


I would not think of the situation with Seiko as the same with the dogs I am thinking of. Seiko was not a breeding dog, and was probably very familiar with and comfortable with your son before going to live with him. He would have already felt like part of her family in some ways long before she went to live witrh him because of her familiarity with him.

I guess it is a personal decision, but it is definately not for me. I would not feel comfortable working with someone who this was the norm for either. But that is just my opinion. What if it did not work out with the home a breeder put an adult, retired dog into? How many times should a dog be bounced around? I shudder at the thought, and it makes me rather queasy to think of anything like that happening to any of my furkids. The only time I would rehome an adult dog would be if it was clearly not happy here, or fought with the other dogs.


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## KalaMama (Nov 20, 2009)

I think a lot of it has to do with the personality of the dog and the motives of the breeder. I could not imagine rehoming Kala(for my sake or hers). She loves HER humans and puts up with everyone else. I am sure if we died or for some reason she had to have a new family that she would be fine, but I could not rehome her. However, I have and have had dogs that seem to just love everyone and everything that would most likely be a-okay. I think it comes down to planning by the breeder and how many dogs they are comfortable with owning. I don't see a problem in a well-thought-out adult placement, but I believe the initial post was about purchasing and reselling show puppies steadily. I agree with Rockporters that the breeder should have a good enough eye to determine whether the puppy would be a potential for their program. Sure, things happen and the pup may not turn out, but it doesn't seem as though it should be a regular thing.


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## Teffy (Jul 4, 2010)

I own a retired brood bitch, Tessa. She was born in the States, sent to the sire's home in Canada and lived there for a year, then sold to another breeder who bred her a few times and after knowing me for a year (I have one of Tessa's babies), she entrusted me with her. The breeder even said that she'd be better off with me though it would break her heart, and it did and still does. Everytime we see her, her eyes fill up with tears but doesn't regret the decision. Tessa did not become a famous show dog, but is now a therapy and tracking dog, plus she just started agility and doing quite well. At the end of every visit, who does Tessa want to go home with? Me, a testament that the breeder did not make a mistake.

Would I be able to do that? NO WAY, I would die before I part with my girls. However, I commend breeders who are brave enough to admit that they have too many dogs and must let them go out of love and respect for them. On the other hand, I agree with Arreau, breeders who rehome dogs regularly...very questionable...is there no attachment, no love...is it just for the Ch., prestige and whatnot? So so sad for the dog especially when all they want to do is love you.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Olie said:


> But in order to improve their line, they must be able to invest the time in those particular dogs.
> Suri was not bred after being shown, but her breeder and daughter were in tears the day I got Suri. It was exciting and heartbreaking at the same time.
> 
> I too would consider this type of situation again if that was an option for me. Bred or not.


I agree Olie

I don't think there are any top breeders who are keeping all of their breeding stock from when they first started or as they progress. They may keep a few favs but they are not keeping all of them. I am kind of shocked to see what other people think breeders do hwell: Like I said just imagine how many dogs someone would have if they have been breeding for over 15 years give or take they have 1-3 litters a year and kept a puppy out of each on top of hanging on to the brood bitch and the stud. 

Ideally when breeding you want to improve and advance, If you have a puppy that exceeds the quality of the dam and stud it’s time to keep moving forward and not backwards. I know for sure my sister and I will never give Enzo away or my new puppy but once we start breeding and get the quality we want there no way am I keeping all of these dogs! Its a hard choice but as a breeder of cats its something you have to do. I am super careful of who my cats go to, I still talk to a bunch of people that own my kitties  I was so upset that we had to place a few cats because I loved them so much.

If the breeder has an excellent reason for why they are re homing then I think it should not be an issue. 

There is a flip side to re homing also some breeders ( the ones who are not honest) well dump their "garbage" on to someone who has no clue. Like selling an ill tempered puppy to someone. Now that type of rehoming is not ok at all.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Teffy said:


> I own a retired brood bitch, Tessa. She was born in the States, sent to the sire's home in Canada and lived there for a year, then sold to another breeder who bred her a few times and after knowing me for a year (I have one of Tessa's babies), she entrusted me with her. The breeder even said that she'd be better off with me though it would break her heart, and it did and still does. Everytime we see her, her eyes fill up with tears but doesn't regret the decision. Tessa did not become a famous show dog, but is now a therapy and tracking dog, plus she just started agility and doing quite well. At the end of every visit, who does Tessa want to go home with? Me, a testament that the breeder did not make a mistake.
> 
> Would I be able to do that? NO WAY, I would die before I part with my girls. However, I commend breeders who are brave enough to admit that they have too many dogs and must let them go out of love and respect for them. On the other hand, I agree with Arreau, breeders who rehome dogs regularly...very questionable...is there no attachment, no love...is it just for the Ch., prestige and whatnot? So so sad for the dog especially when all they want to do is love you.


Well SAID :clap2:

Yes and the breeders who just want to pump out CH and have no attachment to these dogs that is sad and I agree with that part ! but if the breeder is not just wanting CH and is really improving the breed then I am ok with retired breeders being rehomed.


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## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

My issue isn't so much with rehoming a brood bitch. Although I'm sure there's an adjustment period for the dog as there would be with any rehoming situation. Admittedly I like the idea of co-ownerships or fostering so some of that can be avoided.

What's really bothering me are the breeders who go through a number of puppies very quickly. It doesn't seem like they do their homework, and perhaps with a bit of time and effort put into researching pedigrees and genetics, some of the buying and rehoming could be avoided. I always wonder, after hearing their stories, if the original breeder has any clue what happened to their puppy.

As the person on the buying end it also drives me a little crazy to run into breeders selling off the pup because there's usually a lack of information. I've run into this several times and I swear I've walked away from a shelter knowing more information about a dog! It makes me wonder what their criteria is for bringing a pup into their breeding program. Amusingly enough these have been ones that want references and so forth before they talk to you, and then expect you to take their word that's it's a nice dog simply because they show LOL. 

Anyhow just a pet peeve. It's like having a baby... I had almost forgotten about this nonsense in the short time that I've had Jasper. I'm not even ready for a puppy yet, but I want to be prepared in case there's a waiting list with whichever breeder I choose. (and I want to be able to be choosey  )


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

roxy25 said:


> I agree Olie
> 
> I don't think there are any top breeders who are keeping all of their breeding stock from when they first started or as they progress. They may keep a few favs but they are not keeping all of them. I am kind of shocked to see what other people think breeders do hwell: Like I said just imagine how many dogs someone would have if they have been breeding for over 15 years give or take they have 1-3 litters a year and kept a puppy out of each on top of hanging on to the brood bitch and the stud.
> 
> ...


You would not HAVE to rehome dogs OR keep them all. You could have co-owners and let the dogs live with co-owners, or compile a list of foster homes and allow people who would be remarkable pet lovers have one of your dogs, with a contract, for no money out of pocket at their end, who would either come to you to be whelped and stay until the pups are weaned, or in the case of a male, would be kept intact and available to you for stud services when you need him. But these dogs live with their famiily from the time they are puppies, is essentially their dog, to be part of a family and well loved in the meantime.


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## Trillium (Sep 1, 2009)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> You would not HAVE to rehome dogs OR keep them all. You could have co-owners and let the dogs live with co-owners, or compile a list of foster homes and allow people who would be remarkable pet lovers have one of your dogs, with a contract, for no money out of pocket at their end, who would either come to you to be whelped and stay until the pups are weaned, or in the case of a male, would be kept intact and available to you for stud services when you need him. But these dogs live with their famiily from the time they are puppies, is essentially their dog, to be part of a family and well loved in the meantime.


I so agree with you Arreau. I think its so much better for everyone if a dog goes to its forever home when its a puppy. Poor Sport when we got him was 4 years old. He had lived in at least 3 other homes before we got him maybe more. He was a sweetie and very grateful as he was a kennel dog in the place we got him from. But I really don't think its fair to anyone to have a dog like Sport that constantly gets moved from one home to another. We often wished we could have had him from the time he was a puppy. I know he would have liked that too lol. 

When you know that you are going to be having upcoming litters and are wanting to keep one of the puppies I think its so much better for the dog to find a loving home for it to live in be it a co-ownership or a foster family. That way when the puppy is done its breeding career it just stays in the same loving home it always has been in. 

When Arreau and I first started talking about co-ownership she was very clear that Betty Jo and Jenny would be my forever dogs which of course was how I wanted it.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> You would not HAVE to rehome dogs OR keep them all. You could have co-owners and let the dogs live with co-owners, or compile a list of foster homes and allow people who would be remarkable pet lovers have one of your dogs, with a contract, for no money out of pocket at their end, who would either come to you to be whelped and stay until the pups are weaned, or in the case of a male, would be kept intact and available to you for stud services when you need him. But these dogs live with their famiily from the time they are puppies, is essentially their dog, to be part of a family and well loved in the meantime.


I agree here too in the right situation. I don't see either terrible if handled the right way.


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## partial2poodles (Feb 11, 2010)

If I placed 5 of my dogs in "foster homes" while I was in the process of a divorce OR in Law School or Moving out of state....

even if I gave someone (my very best friend) co-ownership...

IS IT ANY LESS STRESSFULL ON THE DOG INITIALLY? NO!!! 
SO IS REHOMING PERMANANTLY ANY DIFFERENT IN THE DOG'S EYES? NO!

Everyone on here made really great points...I agree with everyone cause the replies all make alot of sense. But rehoming is moving from one bed, food bowl, yard or fire hydrant to ANOTHER along with another set of humans. Dogs adapt. I have "considered" reducing the size of my pack, but haven't been able to bring myself to "pick out" the one that is going to be made to leave. I dont want to make a choice so I just continue to have alot of dogs and I put alot of time and I MAKE TIME every single day for them. I feel terrible if one doesn't get to sleep in the big bed or one gets a chicken foot and the others don't. I try to be fair and not have any favoritism. I also get frustrated when I see the silver puppies I bred and I didn't have room to keep one for myself without making the decision that someone else would have to go. My goal has been to breed another silver male TO KEEP, one to replace my male Ben. Ben is already 8 and has had 2 litters and I haven't kept one yet. I just am waiting for my 21 year old to die....on the other hand, I want to see if I can help her live long enough to be in the Guiness Book of World Records....so far the oldest dog was 26. That might have changed though.


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