# How to teach "quiet"



## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

I've tried and my timing must be all off because they still bark. Maybe I am anxious and they can tell? I don't know, but my guys ONLY bark when someone is at the door, but it drives me insane, especially emilio, he just keeps going.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

here's a link to an online discussion with karen pryor that might help: Training Paired Cues: "Bark/Be Quiet" | Karen Pryor Clicker Training

i have never needed to teach this, so no real experience. just something i keep in mind in case - one never knows.


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## snmim (Sep 7, 2015)

Thank you patk! I think she explains exactly what I'm dealing with


> I don't believe you can train the absence of something, in dogs...perhaps in people.


 The other trainers I read about did not do this. I will try this method out.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

mithy, do keep us in the loop as to how it works out. it would be good to have a pf member with first hand experience to refer to!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Here's the method I've used and it works if you're consistent: (I used it with my Chihuahuas, not the Poodles yet) It's from Culture Clash, Jean Donaldson. Or it's similar, maybe not exact.


Put the barking on cue...say "speak" or "bark" (whatever cue you want, just keep it the same) You can use a hand signal too if you want. I open and close my fingers against my thumb like my hand is imitating a mouth, like you'd do with kids when they talk too much.

Immediately after you cue (not more than a second or two after, get the dog to bark by having someone knock on the door or whatever else will make him bark. 
Dog barks. 


Praise..."gooooood!" (no treat, just a little praise) 


Give cue...."quiet" or "enough" (I use enough, but whatever you choose, just make it the same.) And immediately after, show the treat to prompt quiet....hold the treat in front of his nose...get him distracted until he is quiet. Hold the treat for 3-5 seconds and then give it to him. 

Repeat with less and less visibility of the treat prompt but still give it to him after perfect 3-5 second quiets. 


Repeat with longer and longer durations of quiet before giving the treat. 


Practice with lots of visitors or whatever else triggers the barking. Vary them.

Do it over and over till the dog gets onto this game. And it is a game. It my take a few sessions so keep it up. You'll know that the dog gets it when he barks on the cue and doesn't need the door knocking or other noises to set him off. And he quiets on the first cue to quiet without being shown the treat. Still give him a treat but take it from somewhere he won't notice so much, like your pocket or a table top. (later, once reliable, you'll put the treats on a variable reinforcement schedule) 

If he ever starts to bark during a quiet time with even a half attempt at a bark or a tiny soft bark, tell him "woops" (a no reward marker) and start your count over again....1,2,3,4,5...He has to know that barking during the quiet time lost him the treat. He needs to give you 3-5 seconds of perfect quiet after you cue the quiet. 

Practice this by going back and forth, back and forth between the cue to bark... and the cue to quiet...lots of times before trying it out in real situations. Set up the situations so you can practice better. Expose him to a wider variety of sights and sounds if he is especially easily set off. 

Many people give up because they never get past the hard part. Memorize the instructions and understand them completely. Practice, practice. This process works if you give it ample training. It can seem like it's going nowhere the first few times and most people never make it past the initial hard part. The first few times, the dog will respond poorly so you must be ready with some very tasty treats. If he messes up once you've decreased the visibility of the treats for a while, go back to showing him them again for a bit. (Often, dogs that have been trained using more traditional methods take a while to get onto the game because they haven't learned about doggie zen) They’re not accustom to controlling their own behavior because someone else is controlling it for them.

When he's been doing this for a while and he barks after being told to "quiet," he must get an instant time out away from the action, which most dogs find fun and stimulating. Having to leave the excitement really bothers most dogs. Timing, of course is vital as always. Once you've given the "quiet" cue and he barks, he must immediately get a "Woops" (too bad for you) and he is quickly removed to the isolation area. Do not let him out if he barks. Wait for a lull of about 5-10 seconds first after having been in there for a minute or two.

You can also do a down-stay. A lot of dogs don't bark when they're lying down. 

It is very likely that it will get worse before it gets better. Your dog has been barking for a long time this way and when something has been working and then it doesn't, he's going to try and try some more. The sudden shift in the rules will likely cause some confusion at first. But then there will be an extinction burst where by he tries and tries and the last time he tries before he gives up because it's not working, he's going to give it all he's got. Keep at it. This will pass. Once he finally gives up for good, the behavior will extinguish. It will extinguish because it doesn't work to bark. Nothing satisfying comes from the excessive barking and no behavior exists when there is no motivator. BUT...something better happens, that works better when he hears the word, "quiet." So that new behavior will be taken on.


Once the behavior is quite well on it's way, practice this in different environments, locations, contexts and various triggers. Get the dog to generalize this behavior in any kind of situation, anyplace.

I used this method with my Chihuahuas. They got the initial behavior going quite well in just one or two sessions. It took some more to get the cues independent of the prompt and the door knocking person.

It can also double as a fun trick to show people. "speak" and "quiet."




THE SEQUENCE is important: 

Cue "Bark!" 

(get something to make the dog bark...door bell) 

Dog barks 

Praise: "Good!" after a few barks 

Cue "quiet" 

Show the dog the treat (to prompt quiet) 

The dog's eventual distraction from barking by the treat 

3 to 5 seconds of quiet during which you praise: "sooooo gooood."

You furnish treat after the 3-5 seconds of perfect quiet


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

To know that the training really work, Poodlebeguiled, can you say " quiet " the have someone knock, and if the dog doesn't bark, then he's got it ?


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Dechi, sure it_ may_ indicate that. But there could be other variables that cause it.

BUT...with this method and most, most people want their dog to bark when someone comes to the door. And in fact, it would be very difficult to teach a dog to never bark even one bark because it's their instinct to protect or alert their family. So, in this case, we want the dog to stop barking on cue after a few alert barks that we thank the dog for. 

This is for excessive barking. And of course, this is assuming all the dog's needs have been met or this won't work. In other words, if the dog is under exercised or has had a lack of or improper socialization history, not enough mental stimulation, no method is going to be very effective.


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## snmim (Sep 7, 2015)

Poodlebeguiled, thank you for the detailed and lengthy response. My dog does not bark excessively at all, she just gives one or two here or there when she's overexcited or playing. She does not even bark when someone comes to the door. She knows the "speak" command 100% quite well. She can do it indoors, outdoors, and in front of guests without any treats.

The thing is when I give the cue, she only gives ONE bark as opposed to numerous ones. After she gives this _one loud bark_ she patiently waits and gives me eye contact as if to say "what else do you want me to do" so if I reward her after several (like 30) seconds of quiet I still felt like I was rewarding that one bark. I know that this hasn't been working at all because if she were to bark during play and I said quiet she'd bark again, she didn't understand the concept of that type of training.. I think I will Karen Pryor's method of pushing my hand quickly to initiate some startledness in her so I would actually be clicking for a movement, rather than the absence of the bark.

Your method is very helpful to those who have dogs that are excessive barkers. When Mira was a wee puppy she did not like her crate and use to bark and whine non stop. I started to drop chicken pieces over her crate in the moments of quiet, and gradually increased the length of quiet. This helped a ton and now she willingly goes in her crate all the time to take a nap. Your tip for the quick time out after disobeying the "quiet" is also practical, I will keep that in mind. I will try this out tomorrow, I've been toying with Mira's newfound ability to "hold" an item all day!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

So do I have this straight? You would like her to bark multiple times upon one cue and then quiet upon cue? When you cue quiet, you're afraid you're rewarding the bark she did and not the quiet? If she only barks once and you do nothing, does she spontaneously bark again or does she only bark one time period? In other words, is it necessary to cue her to quiet at all since she only barks once anyway and the stops? You can get multiple barks with one single cue if you want multiple barks. You will be fading the cue. I'll explain that better if I'm understanding better what you want to do. I haven't had my coffee yet and I'm a little confused anyhow. lol. :confused3:




> I feel like when I treat her she still is getting rewarded for the bark.


When a behavior is reinforced over and over, it will tend to be repeated in the future. So, if you've been rewarding the quiet and she's quiet, then you're really truly rewarding the quiet. If you have been rewarding the bark, she'd bark. I guess I need to get a clearer picture of what you are aiming for...what you want to have her do exactly. Is this for a trick? Or you want her to be more of a watch dog so want her to bark more?


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## snmim (Sep 7, 2015)

Okay, I hope I explain this better now! I do not want her to bark multiple times on cue, she only barks once and if I do nothing she will stay quiet. Hence why the cue "quiet" wasn't really working in my opinion. It wasn't necessary for me to cue it, which transferred to the "quiet" not working in real life situations, if that makes any sense.

I would like to teach "quiet" so she doesn't bark whenever she's overexcited. Her barks are ear-splitting loud. She's a quiet dog overall, but I'd like to have control over when she can or cannot bark. If my dog came across another dog on a walk and greeted her, for example, she would bark when we started walking away. If I could have her shush on cue that would be great. She also barks during play.

I believe I have this figured out now anyways, sorry for not being clearer.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I always work on focus exercises and self control exercises such as described in Lesson 1. I like to teach my dogs to give me their attention and turn away from "temptation." lol. This is not something that happens in a day. But over time, as they mature and learn _how_ to learn, they can learn to ignore another dog when asked...or it can be put on default. There are different tricks to teach a dog to turn their attention away from a trigger that arouses them. You can watch this too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdraNF2hcgA 

My young Poodles are a work in progress. My little Jose` (Chihuahua) use to be quite reactive while on a leash and now he is very able to get his attention off the potential trigger and onto me as we pass by a dog. 

Hope that helps. Check out those links! 

Happy training!


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

All I know is, yelling "No barking!" doesn't work out too well. :yell:


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