# Any help with guilt?



## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

I have just stopped giving my Mini and 2 Toys raw food because...

1. The expense
2. The effort
3. The insanity at feeding time (3 Oriental cats too, so chaotic as hell)
4. The horror (of endlessly cutting up flesh)
5. The searching (for reduced meat when I have 1000 other things to do)

I know there are commercial raw foods but the companies have been a nightmare to deal with in the past (not responding to emails and not helpful when they do) so I am really put off going back down that route.

I have just given all 3 a recommended amount of Acana Pacifica, which they ate at a perfectly acceptable speed, and now I am sitting here feeling like the worst Daddy ever. My youngest has always had raw!

How can I make myself feel better? 

Any reassurance would be appreciated.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

*RuschaBaby*: I can understand forgoing a raw diet for your poodles must be disconcerting to you. It's a big change and it sounds like you're being unduly hard on and disappointed with yourself. What I can offer here is that our former dog lived to be 16+ years, was fed kibble and was as robust and healthy as they come throughout her life, only saw the vet for regular vaccines and a bout of Lyme's. She crossed The Rainbow Bridge with every pearly white tooth still in her mouth, having lived the active, busy life of a terrier fed entirely on kibble. With the occasional piece of cheese or hamburger thrown in. I hope you won't continue to be so hard on yourself. You are not in any way "bad" for revising your feeding program!


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

I wouldn't spend a minute of time worrying about it if I were you; Acana is a perfectly acceptable food, it's highly rated and well tolerated by most dogs. You can still give raw meaty bones once in a while for it's teeth cleaning benefits or for treats. Pre-made (frozen or fresh) raw is getting more common and accessible, so maybe after a rest you might feel like going back. Or not! It's all good.


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## cavon (Aug 10, 2010)

I agree completely with both of the previous posters. I cook for my dog and I also have 3 cats, one Persian who has an underbite that makes it difficult to eat out of a bowl, so I feed her off of a spoon.

it is not always easy and there are times when I don't have time to make Finnegan's food, so I give him Orijen Red. 

You are doing your best for your pets and no one should fault you for that!


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

Oh wow, all 3 of the posts I have read so far have been just the ticket. The main thing for me is longevity, so that 16 year old comment really helped - I don't want to compromise their lifespans in any way - and that other comment about maybe going back when BARF supply has caught up in the UK was just right.

I can't see the names now I am doing this reply, but the post that mentioned feeding cats cooked food... how do you ensure they get enough calcium? Or are you feeding cooked bones? The cats are the toughest thing - one of them has just thrown up his Acana (sigh).

I can't remember what the poo is like on Acana. I have got so accustomed to hard poos and I bet I am in for a shock! 

EDIT: I will still be giving pork ribs and chicken wings, so there's that. Honestly I am so comforted by the posts here - I know it sounds crazy. I don't have kids, so the dogs are it for my wife and I. I could cry - it's stupid.


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## cavon (Aug 10, 2010)

Sorry, I cook for my spoo, not for my cats. My cats get a combination of two types of dry food, one Canadian sourced and prepared grain free and one for mobility issues because my Persian has had some sighns that she might be developing a bit or arthritis. 

My cats free feed, so I wanted to make sure that all three of their needs were being met. 

I cook for my spoo, because he developed some food sensitivities when he had Giardia as a pup and also because I cannot bring my mind around to feeding raw, the bones terrify me. i do give him a marrow bone every once in a while and he does LOVE that!


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

I used to feed raw....and BARF....and cook for my dogs. Not all at the same time though. In the end, after I started working full time, it became too much. Now, my dogs get high quality kibble. Evo, Innova Prime, and Blue Buffalo depending on who we are talking about. I did not notice any changes in their health, other than their teeth got a little gummier. Easily solved with some raw bones though. My oldest is 14, still going strong. She still goes for long walks, chases balls, rabbits, and deer. I had bloodwork done on her, it came back almost perfect. Her only issues are her (selective lol!) deafness, mild arthritis (easily kept at bay with glucosomine and chondroitin supplements), and a tendency to get a little obsessive about things....usually barking or food. So she's a little senile....who isn't when they are almost 100 yo! (In human years she's approaching that...) I wouldn't be surprised if she lives to be 16 or 17. Keep in mind she lived off of Dog Chow and Pedigree for the first 8 yrs of her life. 

All that to say, don't worry about it! You are feeding one of the best kibbles out there, and I'm sure you will supplement with raw foods from time to time. Your kids will be fine.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Try to remember also that pets are in our lives for the pleasure they bring us. Feeling pressured and stressed over feeding them reduces that pleasure and they can feel that. Continue feeding them the excellent quality kibble with the occasional raw treats and bones as wanted/needed and ENJOY having your pets again. 

They are perfectly content with the kibble you're offering, they would be even happier if you were not feeling guilty. Make all of you happy by just enjoying them.


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## sarahmurphy (Mar 22, 2012)

You have to do what works for you and for your family. 

Seriously, I have friends who do the same flipping out when they stop breast feeding their babies... (The child is old enough to talk, you have to go back to work, or you need medicine that will transfer - for whatever reason, transitioning to formula is the BEST CHOICE FOR YOUR FAMILY AT THAT TIME) 

Welcome to parenting - the second guessing, the wondering "How badly am I screwing up?" (Because none of us seem to embrace the possibility that we might be doing it right - it seems to be a matter of degrees of "wrong" for most parents...)

So, trust yourself to make the right choices for your family, and trust yourself to make the right mistakes - the ones you all learn/grow from.... 

And breathe, for goodness sake - just keep breathing... If there is not A LOT of blood, and everyone is conscious, it's probably okay. And even if there is a lot of blood, and somebody is unconscious, the sun is probably still going to come up in the East in the morning.... 

Think of how much time you waste second guessing yourself, and think of how much more you could do with that time... I tell myself this almost every day when I get on some "I'm doing this wrong I am a horrible wife/mother/dog owner, etc" kick....

sarah


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

All my dogs have had kibble until Carley and this forum. I have never had a sickly dog...ever! All my dogs have lived very long and healthy lifes. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just read a book that said the only thing you really need to stay away from is dyes . They recommende Iams ! I give both mine kiddle for morning meal and raw for evening, when I have more time ect.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Given that most cats and dogs are fed a very basic kibble diet, and live long and healthy lives, I think you are already doing extremely well for them by feeding a carefully selected commercial food!

I cook for my cats - I buy DAF minces (10% bone), and simmer them overnight in a slow cooker. I then add a little taurine powder (widely available, especially from sites selling sports vitamins and supplements), portion the food up, and freeze it. If you are in the North of England I highly recommend DAF (Durham Animal Feeds). I've found them reliable, inexpensive, and easy to deal with - the biggest problem when I bought from them direct was the minimum order (around 60 packs or 26 kilos - a lot of freezer space!), and it was sometimes difficult to find someone to pay in advance! Life became a lot easier when a local boarding kennels started stocking their products, so I can buy in smaller quantities through them.


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

BorderKelpie said:


> Try to remember also that pets are in our lives for the pleasure they bring us. Feeling pressured and stressed over feeding them reduces that pleasure and they can feel that. Continue feeding them the excellent quality kibble with the occasional raw treats and bones as wanted/needed and ENJOY having your pets again.
> 
> They are perfectly content with the kibble you're offering, they would be even happier if you were not feeling guilty. Make all of you happy by just enjoying them.


This was, like all the replies, extremely appreciated. But is also exactly what my wife has said. The girls have picked up on my stress. 

This morning was a delight: all feeding done and dusted within 10 minutes and no mess. Phew.


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

mom24doggies said:


> I used to feed raw....and BARF....and cook for my dogs. Not all at the same time though. In the end, after I started working full time, it became too much. Now, my dogs get high quality kibble. Evo, Innova Prime, and Blue Buffalo depending on who we are talking about. I did not notice any changes in their health, other than their teeth got a little gummier. Easily solved with some raw bones though. My oldest is 14, still going strong. She still goes for long walks, chases balls, rabbits, and deer. I had bloodwork done on her, it came back almost perfect. Her only issues are her (selective lol!) deafness, mild arthritis (easily kept at bay with glucosomine and chondroitin supplements), and a tendency to get a little obsessive about things....usually barking or food. So she's a little senile....who isn't when they are almost 100 yo! (In human years she's approaching that...) I wouldn't be surprised if she lives to be 16 or 17. Keep in mind she lived off of Dog Chow and Pedigree for the first 8 yrs of her life.
> 
> All that to say, don't worry about it! You are feeding one of the best kibbles out there, and I'm sure you will supplement with raw foods from time to time. Your kids will be fine.


The teeth aspect was a concern but I am one of those strange people who brush their dog's teeth twice a day. Partly because my wife is a dental practice manager (tooth mad) but also because I am on a scheme with my vet which includes free toothpaste. They like taking money from me, so I use up the paste as fast as poss. Lol.


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

fjm said:


> Given that most cats and dogs are fed a very basic kibble diet, and live long and healthy lives, I think you are already doing extremely well for them by feeding a carefully selected commercial food!


Thanks for this. I have also considered that the stuff in the Acana (apples, pears, berries, kelp, etc...) I could never get into them on a raw diet. I am now hoping to see some positives. Less straining when they do their business would be welcome.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I understand how you are feeling. I feed raw but would have zero qualms about feeding Acana!! Remember that Acana is so much better than what many pets eat - do not feel guilty.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Ha,ha had to laugh at one of the above posts about not worrying unless there is a lot of blood; so true! I used to say, as long as I end the day with the same amount of kids I started out with, it's all good  This is kind of like that "coddling" thread, but I like cooking for my dogs too. But not just for them, for the family and they get some before the seasoning goes in. Because (and this is stupid, but hey, I'm being honest) I feel like they need a hot meal sometimes! Their favorites are chicken with vegetables and dumplings, meatballs, pasta with garlic sauce, and soup and crackers. We are so cognizant of avoiding grains so anything with grains in it is served in very tiny amounts. But I think it's so funny when you get the eyeballs surrounded by white when they REALLY like something!


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

*Rusha Baby*: Now that you've been absolved from spending time feeling guilty, maybe you can spend some time cooking up something good for _us_?! I could go for some ravioli or a nice eggplant parmigiana.:smile: All kidding aside, as I've told you before, I am a fellow brush-her-poodle's-teeth zealot. Keeping up with that, and "throwing" your poodles a raw bone now and then should leave everyone feeling good and sparking! Glad you're feel more peaceful about things.:biggrin:


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Sunny is (also) on Acana -- and it's a great food. I am sure it has all the nutrients they need and Sunny loves it. You could purchase some premade and on weekends thaw a little for them to make you feel better.


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

Oh well I am, as they say in the UK, chuffed to bits. Thank you all so much.

On a separate note (and I don't know if it warrants a separate thread) I have found this food, which a fellow walker recommended. 

Markus-Mühle

So I am going to give it a try when the Acana is finished. I haven't seen any mention of it here before, so thought it might be of interest to you lovely people. 

The fellow walker said that she visited this wolf sanctuary in Spain where they feed this stuff when they run low on meat. 

(I can post on threads more often now... so much more time available!)


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I checked that food's ingredients. I would NOT feed it because the third ingredient is maize (also known as corn). The second ingredient is rice. Corn is a filler that dogs do not digest!  That mean the bulk of that food is rice and corn plus it uses beet root meal, which is another filler:

28% dried poultry meal, thermally treated whole grain rice, thermally treated whole grain maize, 8% game tripe meal, rice germs, Jerusalem artichoke meal, 5% sea fish meal, dried Beet root meal, cold pressed linseed oil, cold pressed rapeseed oil, 2% egg yolk, dried peat, fruit powder (combination of carobs, pineapples, papayas, bananas, acerola cherries, apples, pears, blueberries, mangos, raspberries), dried herb mixture, salmon oil, algae meal, dried Mojave yucca.

Stick with the Arcana or another high quality food. I like 3 of the first 5 ingredients to be some sort of meat with one or two of those beiing called MEAL and no BY PRODUCTS. You have to have some kind of binder like rice or potato in the top 5 or the food would fall apart. Grain free foods usually use sweet potato or other potato. 

Honestly, you can't get much better than Arcana. It's expensive for a kibble, though. I feed high quality kibble and mix with a touch of canned at dinner plus they get some bones and other goodies. They are all the picture of health and I never have to take them to the vets for anything.


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

outwest said:


> I checked that food's ingredients. I would NOT feed it because the third ingredient is maize (also known as corn). The second ingredient is rice. Corn is a filler that dogs do not digest!  That mean the bulk of that food is rice and corn plus it uses beet root meal, which is another filler:
> 
> 28% dried poultry meal, thermally treated whole grain rice, thermally treated whole grain maize, 8% game tripe meal, rice germs, Jerusalem artichoke meal, 5% sea fish meal, dried Beet root meal, cold pressed linseed oil, cold pressed rapeseed oil, 2% egg yolk, dried peat, fruit powder (combination of carobs, pineapples, papayas, bananas, acerola cherries, apples, pears, blueberries, mangos, raspberries), dried herb mixture, salmon oil, algae meal, dried Mojave yucca.
> 
> ...


I hear you on the grain aspect, and thank you very much indeed for your response. I am so much on the fence when it comes to grains, and have yet to hear a truly convincing argument against them, unless an allergy to them has been identified in a particular animal. 

I am currently reading _In Defence of Dogs_ by John Bradshaw, which suggests (at this point in reading) that we cannot be 100% certain of the generally accepted links between wolves and dogs, and I expect that 35,000 years of dog domestication has brought us to a point where we are potentially mistakenly asserting *wolf* onto *dog* and not really understanding that DNA differences - even those quoted as small percentages - actually count for a lot of difference between the two. With humans we suggest 96% DNA similarity to chimps, but that 4% makes a massive difference, especially in what we choose to eat. 

With wolves it's only 2% difference to dogs, but that could account for some differences in acceptable foods at least, which may have been driven by domestication itself. Bread, after all, is a *big* deal with humans, and must have been fed to dogs for 1000's of years.

You *must please* understand that I am not disagreeing with you. I am truly on the fence, and would prefer to hover until the evidence is overwhelmingly obvious.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I agree with Outwest. I consider corn to be a tip off for a low quality kibble. Here is a link with information for you to consider.

The Truth About Corn in Dog Food


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I have no problems with good grains in a dog food in moderation- things like oatmeal, brown rice and the like. I prefer to avoid wheat or white rice, but lots of dogs do well with wheat. I actually feel a good grain is maybe better than the potato they have to use in the grain free foods unless you have a dog with an allergy to grains. 

You have nothing to feel guilty about. If you feel guilty throw them a chicken wing on occasion.


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

CT Girl said:


> I agree with Outwest. I consider corn to be a tip off for a low quality kibble. Here is a link with information for you to consider.
> 
> The Truth About Corn in Dog Food


I completely agree that fillers are exactly that, and that I would prefer to avoid them if possible. I can see that the link is good science. For now, I have cancelled my order for the German food, though it's other ingredients and reviews on the Zooplus website still make me slightly tempted.

I suppose the thing I should remember is that Poodles are a little sensitive, and I don't want to start off an allergy in my girls. That angle speaks loudest to me.

I think someone (some company) needs to break new ground on the dry dog food concept. I know good kibbles can't work without something like potato to bind them but I wish someone would start thinking outside the box. I guess we need the science to catch up.

Thanks for your response.


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## Ruscha_Baby (May 22, 2011)

Well it has been 4 days now, and I am not happy with the situation.

My three dogs now have soft poop, and the little one has had he first tummy upset ever (she has not touched kibble since she was 8 weeks). Even the smell of the firmer parts of the poop is horrible and brings back bad memories.

I have found a cheaper source of BARF and bones cost next to nothing. I would rather have the extra work and expense rather than continue feeding kibble (even Acana). It has been a great reminder of why I changed in the first place.

From my perspective now, I can completely agree with the anti corn comments made here, and I now extend that bad feeling toward potatoes and the 20+ other items in the kibble which my dogs do not need.

Phew! Thanks to everyone here for helping me through this awful time. I am glad to return to BARF!


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

You go ! I am glad to hear it. But if you get over your head again, consider 1/2 raw and 1/2 kibble. That works better than 100 % raw for Carley. My new girl has not quite caught on that raw is a great thing... still working with her,not going to give up. I like Natural Balance, fish and sweet pot. but I too switch around .


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I am sorry you have been going through all these digestive issues. I do think there are some good kibbles out there so don't feel guilty if you need to switch at some point. I just tried and failed switching the type of raw I feed. Swizzle has been on Aunt Jenni which he loves but it is a 45 minute drive (1 1/2 hour round trip) to get it. There is a store 5 minutes from my house that carries raw but it is Vital Essentials. I tried this with Swizzle but he looked disgusted and would not take a bite the whole day. Since he is a toy that is too long to go without so he is back on the Aunt Jenni. It is especially a bummer today. We have a hurricane coming and Swizzle is almost out of food. If the store is open I will have to take the hour and a half drive and cross my fingers that our power does not go out and have his food spoil. I will probably just feed homemade raw for a couple of days. I am glad you found a different and less expensive source. Your dogs are lucky to have someone so committed to doing the best for them.


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## sarahmurphy (Mar 22, 2012)

There is quite a bit of "Working mom" vs. "Stay at home mom" in the feeding raw conundrum... How can you possibly trust someone else to raise your child (daycare) vs how can you let your kids go without the socialization and material benefits of having a working mother"?? 

sarah


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## Marcie (Aug 2, 2011)

I have had two cats in my life as an adult and my beloved, Shadow lived to 19 on Purena cat chow and was only sick at the end of her life. In fact two weeks before she died, she brought a mouse trap with a dead mouse up from the basement trying to convince me she killed it.

Then their was my cat Skunk, We were given this cat when she was a year old and I didn't know you could change names. She lived for 17 years on another brand of kibble. She died two years ago Christmas day in my husband's arms. 

Do not feel guilty. Kibble is ok for longevity.


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## cindyb (Oct 13, 2012)

I had a 12 year old great dane who ate GRAVY TRAIN her whole life. She was the best dog I have ever had and lived a great life. Don't worry ... just love them!


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## phrannie (Jan 8, 2011)

*I sure don't feel guilty not feeding raw, even tho I fed raw for years...you shouldn't either. Feeding a high quality kibble doesn't seem to take the shine off their coats and I have beautiful poops . I gradually put Lola on Acana from day one...she came from a self-feeding operation, and I just keep her bowl full (well, we'll do that until it appears that she is becoming a little piggy...LOL).....Unless there is a medical problem like allergies, or gut problems, then I wouldn't worry about it....you're a GOOD dad!

p*


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## hunny518 (Jun 5, 2012)

I am transitioning my dogs from innova to instinct.. Just wondering if anyone knows anything or has tried Instinct.. I also switched my cats to instinct.. I'm really excited to see how everyone does on it. I know they have raw too, but I'm feeding the kibble for now. Being a vegetarian for 17 years now, I'm a little Squeemish with the idea of feeding raw..lol


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