# Raw Food



## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Here is a good place to do your research. BARF Diet - Healthy & Natural Raw Food For Dogs & Cats, Pet Health Care Food & Nutrition Products Supply Online

There are many opinions on raw feeding (or not) and grain free kibble (or not), so I find it's best to do as much research as you can first, and then get opinions of those who currently feed raw. My last miniature ended up switching to raw due to allergies when he was about 3, and was on raw for most of his life and it was wonderful. I switched different brands, as I used the premade frozen raw, or the freeze-dried raw which I would rehydrate. Will also need to see which one your dog likes, etc.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

The BARF diet looks very convenient. I know some people devise their own raw recipes, would the BARF be less expensive than that? I know there's Nature's Variety if you wanted to feed different varieties of meats. I do understand feeding raw will be pricier than feeding kibble, but I'd like to find something that will work for my dog and my wallet!


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

woops, the Nature's Variety looks similar to BARF lol. I need to do more research!


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I should have named the thread "BARF vs. Prey Model" - which is better?? Sorry if I seem ignorant in this matter. Just getting started on the raw research. I would appreciate any help! I'm such a newbie!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I found this site DogAware.com: Homemade Diets for Dogs very useful when I first started a home-prepared diet.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

BARF has unnecessary supplements and veggies. Prey model is far simpler, provides everything they needand doesn't require supplements.

If you want to go the premade route natures variety and primal are good but expensive. They follow BARF.

I recommend Vital Essentials raw as it is cheaper than primal/NV, non HPP (high pressure pasteurization) and DO follow prey model more than BARF. So it's basically just meat bone organ. 

IMO prey model is the best possible diet for our pet carnivores. In my house, it's not messy. They eat on towels outside or in crates. We've had no problems with bacteria. Really, bacteria is a nonissue.

Oh, and my vet feeds raw too.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Thanks ChocolateMille, what I meant was it was a good site to gather information. There are lots of options out there, but the site is good for reference.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

liljaker said:


> Thanks ChocolateMille, what I meant was it was a good site to gather information. There are lots of options out there, but the site is good for reference.


Hi liljaker my post was not in response to your link but instead a response to the OP's question of PMR vs. Prey model.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I actually tried their own brand for Jake at one point, as there was a local distributor. He did like it -- they were the patties -- but they were hard to find. I haven't looked in a while, but the website appeared to state that it could still be ordered from somewhere in California, but not sure. There is nothing worse than using a product or a food that is not readily available, as everyone knows.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

tokipoke said:


> I have so many questions regarding Raw Foods, that I'm sure have been answered somewhere on this forum. I've been perusing it for a while trying to get my answers, but figured it'd be easier to just start a new thread. Here it goes:
> 
> 1) What was the major deciding factor to go raw? I want what is best for the health of my dog. Looking into kibble it seems that most is very poor quality. I also find many kibble fed dogs have tartar. I don't see that in dogs who are fed raw.
> 
> ...


You must be more mindful with raw than kibble and look at the quality of the poop. If it is hard more muscle is called for if it is too soft more bone. It does require more effort but I think it is well worth it. Swizzle devours his meals and quivers with joy when he knows it is breakfast or dinner. To see his enjoyment, his pearly white teeth and shiny coat make me feel that raw is the way to go for those who can put a little extra time and effort (and money) into caring for their dog. Good luck - let us know if you decide to try raw too.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

Thank you for everyone's advice. I'm not at a point yet where I will pursue the prey model. I'm just easing into the raw foods by trying the BARF model first. I've been transitioning Leroy to raw food with Nature's Variety Bison medallions. I like how these are one ounce bite size morsels. It makes feeding little at a time so much easier.

I've read and been told that the raw food should not be mixed with kibble, but this is how I've been slowly adding the raw food. I'd give him his usual kibble amount with one medallion, and then would increase the raw food as I decreased the kibble. He has not had any stomach upsets from this method. His stools have been firm, no diarrhea or vomiting. I am now up to 5 ounces of raw meat with some of his kibble and noticed that his stools were a little soft, but not like soft serve. His poop still had shape, just softer. Tonight I will feed him 6 ounces of raw meat and no kibble. I hope this will settle his stomach. He's getting 1.5 cups of kibble only in the morning. I still have a lot of kibble left and don't want to just throw it out, so he gets that for breakfast. I'll start adding some raw meat to his morning meals at a later time. I'm trying to get him to be able to digest 8 ounces of raw meat for dinners - so that way I can buy the patties instead of the medallions. 

Even with just this small addition of raw meat to his diet, I see a big difference. He has less eye boogies and it appears that his teeth aren't as stained with plaque. I don't know if this is just the placebo effect with the teeth - but his eyes are definitely less crusty! I can't wait till he's strictly on the raw diet, and I plan on feeding him RMB's in the future. I will also look into the Vital Essentials brand, and perhaps this will encourage me to go to the prey model!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I wouldn't worry about mixing kibble with raw if its ground like nature's variety.

I also wouldn't be expecting any more dental benefits from ground raw than from canned food. Id throw some RMBs in there when you're ready.


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## bura4 (Jul 25, 2010)

What enzymes do you use for better digestion?? Maybe my boy's problems with raw were related to some insufficiency in that field....


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Currently I use FortiFlora probiotics and Prozyme probiotics.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

ChocolateMillie said:


> Currently I use FortiFlora probiotics and Prozyme probiotics.


I'm back with an update on the Nature's Variety raw feeding. Leroy will be off the kibble and completely on the raw patties in about a week and a half. He has not had any meat with actual bones in it yet, but I bought some turkey necks to try on him to see how he responds to it. I also bought other proteins (lamb and chicken) to transition to other meats. _Is it okay on their stomachs to feed two different proteins at one meal?_

His stools have been firm - _but is there a thing as "too firm" when feeding the BARF-style patties_? My husband commented how he felt Leroy was 'straining' to poop. I've watched him use the bathroom and to me he seems fine, although there is little bit more effort to poop then when he was on kibble (the poop would just slide out) - so not sure if this is the difference my husband is noticing. This may be TMI, but I can tell when he poops out his breakfast (which is a cup of kibble and 4 ounces of raw meat), cause the kibble poop is really large and slides out easily while the raw meat is more pebble like that he has to push out. When he poops out his dinner (all raw meat), the amount of poop expelled is the same amount that comes out of my 10 lb cat. I am happy about the consistency and the fact it's so much less poop!

I also quoted the above quote because I'm not sure if I should be adding some probiotics to his diet. I was thinking the Wysong Dentatreat. I am drawn to the Dentatreat because his breath stinks so bad! I do not understand why this is because I thought feeding raw would make it better. Not sure if because he's still eating some kibble. I brush his teeth every night but his breath still smells bad. Besides the raw diet, _will adding probiotics help clear the bad breath?_


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Many people introduce one protein source at a time in order to identify any allergies or intolerancies. Mine eat mixed meats all the time without problem, and take a look at ChocolateMillie's Breakfast thread for a dog's idea of truly haute cuisine!

My neighbour says the same about my dogs straining - I pointed out that her dog, with its huge, soft poos, is the one with frequent anal gland problems! If he is really straining a little more meat to bone, or a few ounces of liver, should do the trick.

Have you had his teeth and gums checked by a vet? Raw meaty bones will help clean his teeth, but if there is any infection it will need treating. I don't use probiotics, but if you decide to go that route, research carefully. Some brands have been found to contain very little other than fillers.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I second what FJM said. Raw fed dogs do have to make a noticeable effort to poop. Raw fed dogs don't have the tendency for anal gland problems that some kibble fed dogs have because their firmer stool naturally expresses the glands.

But, like FJM said, if it's serious straining and not just a moderate effort, I'd add some boneless meat. Personally I wouldn't be brave enough to give any liver yet in your case . 

FJM - have you heard anything about FortiFlora?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

ChocolateMillie said:


> FJM - have you heard anything about FortiFlora?


Sorry CM - it was a piece of research I read a while ago, and I can't remember which brands were listed as good, and which not. I'll see if I can find it again.

I think it was this one - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3003573/ I think the full article may list the different brands they studied.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I took him out on a walk this morning. His poop looks fine to me! I think that is what my husband was noticing - a little more effort when going to the bathroom now that he's raw fed. I noticed that he is expressing his anal glands naturally and the stool density is fine (I can feel it when I pick up with the poop bags).

He's been on one protein source for about a month now. I am planning to slowly add some lamb to his meals. I won't add anything new to his diet - whether it's probiotics or raw liver, until his stomach accepts different kinds of meat. I took him to the vet around the beginning of Sept. and the vet looked at his teeth. She said they looked great. I guess she is used to seeing terrible teeth in poodles. At the time though, he was only eating kibble. I will continue to brush his teeth every night and wait till he's totally off the kibble to see if that helps. I am optimistic that eliminating the kibble will improve the bad breath. His right eye still has some green discharge which I think is a sign of the still on-going food change. The discharge and the stinky breath should be gone once he's only on raw meat.

BTW - I have tried Fortiflora on my cats when they had major stomach problems and it cleared it up very quickly! That stuff works wonders. I can only imagine the benefits when given daily.


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## Tymaca (Oct 13, 2011)

tokipoke said:


> I should have named the thread "BARF vs. Prey Model" - which is better?? Sorry if I seem ignorant in this matter. Just getting started on the raw research. I would appreciate any help! I'm such a newbie!


I was just going to start a post with the same title. I am leaning towards the Prey model, as it seems to closely mimic nature and it excellent for their teeth/oral hygiene. So much to read about!!! How old is you SPOO?


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## ekbaby734 (Jul 1, 2011)

AHH! I was just going to post something aboout raw food diets! Im still so confused after reading all the posts.. Is it good for all dogs??? Do you have to buy them from a company??


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

Tymaca said:


> I was just going to start a post with the same title. I am leaning towards the Prey model, as it seems to closely mimic nature and it excellent for their teeth/oral hygiene. So much to read about!!! How old is you SPOO?


My spoo is almost 11 months. From what I've read about dog maturity and talking to other dog owners, I have 7-8 more months before he's mature (in mind and body)! He's doing great on the BARF style so far. Not ready to take the prey model plunge yet. There IS so much to research in this and I want to do it right. I gave him a raw turkey neck with bones and all yesterday and he LOVED it! At first he wasn't sure what to do with it. He kept licking it very delicately, but was soon crunching away at it. He picked it up with his mouth, got up, and circled around to get more comfortable, and I could see his little tail wagging the whole time. I was reading another thread saying if the dog knows he can crunch through it easily, there's minimal pawing at the raw meat, and luckily he didn't use much of his paws when eating so it wasn't messy at all.


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