# Health Issue / Symptoms / Bloat Paranoia



## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

I would suspect the diet change. The Diamond Naturals is lamb based and the only chicken is chicken fat. The Science diet is chicken based and has wheat and corn, two grains that are often the culprit with itching. 

Is he getting any other treats or chews? 

Have you contacted the breeder for advice?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

It sounds to me like a reaction to the change of food. I would cook rice with a little chicken, keeping it very watery, and give him just the rice for a day, in several small meals, and then, if things are improving, a little of the chicken with the rice. No kibble, and none of the adults' food, until there has been no diarrhoea for 24 hours. If the problem gets worse or continues for more than a day or two, time to see the vet - it could be an infection.

If the dry heaves are coming after he has emptied his stomach by vomitting, it is very unlikely to be bloat (and if it were bloat he would be very, very ill indeed by now, not eating, drinking and moving around).


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

Thanks. I can't remember if the new puppy food is chicken based, I think not, so maybe not science diet. But the adult food is definitely chicken based.

Breeder advised on the chicken/rice. She offered lots of thoughts and advice.

The vomit during the night seems like it might have been dry, it was dark and I thought there was output but in the day I cannot find it.

Not really treats or chews, we have given him some earlier in the week but stopped now. It's tough to keep him off the older dogs food though, they are free feeders and spill it around.

He's full of life right now. He's currently eating a chair


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

The only thing against the food change theory for me is that he was eating the new food 3 days or so before this happened. His itching seems to be much less today and he could always calm down from it anyway if he was sat with a person.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

I agree that this sounds like food issues, however I would carefully watch the application site where you put the Frontline, to be sure there is no sore or other irritation. Most likely this is food related. 

You have received good recomendations on how to calm down the tummy and I would do some research on Dog Food Advisor web site to find a better food choice.

Keep us posted on your progress with your kid. Good luck

Viking Queen

P.s. A few of his symptoms, itching, sound rather like reaction to the Frontline. A quick google of reactions to Frontline yielded very unpleasant symptoms.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Great advice from fjm. 

Bloat is a problem with large deep chested dogs. Adult standard poodles are typically deep chested, but puppies are not. I would be extremely surprised to hear of a puppy bloating when they are not even full grown. Even for adults dogs, the risk of bloat increases with age so younger adult poodles are less likely to bloat than older ones.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

The chance of bloat in a 15 week old puppy are slim to none. Food allergy would be very unlikely as well, as those take time to develop. Frontline is not absorbed into the bloodstream, only the sebaceous glands, so no worries there. That said, he's clearly got some minor GI upset. Not at all unusual in a puppy. I would try a bland diet such as lean burger and rice. If it doesn't clear up, I'd want to get a stool sample checked.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Without wishing to upset anyone else's stomachs, it is not unusual for vomit to vanish in a houseful of dogs...


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

fjm said:


> Without wishing to upset anyone else's stomachs, it is not unusual for vomit to vanish in a houseful of dogs...


I realized that after posting :afraid: He was in his crate and I thought I wiped it up with a handy shirt but the shirt is not that dirty 

I know about Frontline side effects but our vet recommends it and the other dogs use it. I wish we had a better alternative.

Stool sample was checked from last Tuesday and was clear, so that's also encouraging.

So would the itching, which has died down, be consistent with a food change ?


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

And thanks to everyone for the quick responses, I would hoping to get some feedback to settle me down and as always this site responds fantastically.

It's a great site, almost no negativity and encouragement to raise a poodle as a family member not as a dog


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

If he's eating, or drinking, or passing... it's not bloat.


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

OK, got it, not bloat  It's still something.

He's just had another liquid diarrhea, he drank plenty of water this AM and ate about 1 1/2 cups of rice/chicken.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

homemadehitshow said:


> I realized that after posting :afraid: He was in his crate and I thought I wiped it up with a handy shirt but the shirt is not that dirty
> 
> I know about Frontline side effects but our vet recommends it and the other dogs use it. I wish we had a better alternative.
> 
> ...


Maybe. Or maybe he just felt a little itchy. Sometimes puppies have benign temporary little things happen like feeling a little itchy, getting an upset tummy, etc and it's not anything to be concerned about. 

Eta: I see above he's still having loose stool. Id take him in for a stool sample. Stick with the bland diet and no other treats. If all else fails, Canned I/D is a good bland diet you can get from the vet, and if it works, you know it was diet related and then you can slowly transition to something a little better for long term. . I would start adding probiotics to his diet (I like Purina FortiFlora or Proviable - can order on Amazon).


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

Could you please call my wife and explain this :act-up:


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

You have children - I am sure they had similar problems once upon a time! Right down to staging a miraculous recovery once in the doctor's office...


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

That's always been my argument, you don't take them to the doctor first symptoms. With the children I mostly lost also.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I have a great deal of sympathy with better safe than sorry when it comes to vet visits - I decided long ago that any "unnecessary" costs are worth it for the peace of mind!


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

There is realistically no vet we can see today.

He's just diarrhea and vomited again. Just what he ate earlier out the one end.

Problem is that in a situation like this it's tough to see what the vet can do beyond telling use to do what we are already doing.

The one concern, I guess, is that he has eaten some kind of household item and has a blockage but, as said, he's still pretty full of life.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

The good news then, is if things are moving thru, he has no blockage.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

A vet can test for giardia and other intestinal buggies, can help calm things down so he doesn't get dehydrated and help eliminate the scary things that give you the heebie geebies just thinking about. I know how terribly distressing this can be. Been there, done that.

Glad it's not bloat, hugs and prayers sent your way.....hopefully tomorrow will give you more answers and a calm solution for your boy.

Viking Queen


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

If he is still vomitting, as well as diarrhoea, I would make a vet appointment today. As VQ says, he needs checking for a possible infection and something to calm his digestive system down. Unless there is blood the main danger is probably dehydration, so I would keep on with very liquid food.


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

Overnight he woke up once and went #1 and #2. The #2 was very soft but no longer liquid. At 6am (when I go to work). #1 and 2x#2, again very soft but not liquid.

No vomiting, so fingers crossed.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I don't think I've ever read of a puppy bloating with torsion. Not saying that it has never happened, but I would file that in the unlikely column. In our climate I am always worried about dehydration, so if I don't see improvement within a day or two on a bland diet, we're off to the vet. If there were other symptoms, I might move up my timetable. Hope he continues to improve.


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

No facts of course but I have read online people saying it can happen in puppies, though rare.

Very listless today, he was quite lively while sick. Vet is available now of course so the stress is reduced. Doesn't seem to want to eat or drink.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

You need to take that puppy to the vet if he is listless.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

N2Mischief said:


> You need to take that puppy to the vet if he is listless.



I agree!


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Those are the other symptoms, I would worry about. Take him to the vet. Peace of mind is priceless.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Me too. Listless, not eating or drinking. I'd be off to the vet to find out what's going on. Listless is not a good thing...


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Update us when you can. We are all hoping for good news.


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## janet6567 (Mar 11, 2014)

One of my toy poodles had a terrible reaction to Frontline very similar to your dog's reaction. My vet gave her Xanax for her restlessness and anxiety and an antihistamine for the itching and it finally went away after a few days. Poor baby was miserable for several days. The diet could definitely be causing your poor pup to itch. Is it grain free? If not, try a grain free diet. Also, some poodles can be allergic to chicken so perhaps venison or lamb would be a better protein source. We've had good luck with Wellness Brand grain free. My two tpoos like the lamb and rice kibble and venison and sweet potato canned food.


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

Thanks all

Firstly he perked up once my daughter and the other dogs got up. His usual lively self. He's off to the vet, appointment is 10 minutes from now (wife doing it).

He ate lamb Diamond Naturals at his breeder so we are putting him back on that. Since the other dogs are free feeders it's hard to control him.

We have a lot of variables

* Food Change
* Frontline
* We are wondering if he is eating leaves in our backyard, constantly covered with them even if you clean them every day. White Birch at least could be poisonous.
* Could have digested a small toy or part of a larger toy

I'll update.


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

$500 later and not much wiser, though things have been ruled out.

No Parvo virus
Poop test results tomorrow, was clear last week
Dehydration treatment
Very unlikely the leaves.

They gave us a special food and a regimen for feeding him it (once per hour etc).

The vets office always recommends Science Diet, we don't use that for the others. Changing his food from what he ate from birth doesn't make much sense to me.

They gave him anti vomiting medicine and he threw up on the way home 

Now we'll see how that Pet Plan insurance y'all recommended works out


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Very few folks swear by Science Diet. I would keep him on his same food, too. Changing would only introduce another variable. I'm glad you caught the dehydration and also that you have insurance.


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

Only signed up for the insurance on Thursday, I hope there is no issue


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

No vomiting still some diarrhea though more solid ))

He's definitely regained all his energy so I will go back to posting questions about how to control him 

He seems hungry but they wanted us to feed him small amounts once per hour.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I am glad that health is improving. Now to get him settled with good puppy manners, that's the kind of problem you want, not health concerns!


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

science diet is questionable. it also tends to sit on shelves too long if being sold by a vet. on the other hand, i will say that there came a time when my dog was not going well on much more highly rated food and i finally gave in and bought a bag of science diet for sensitive stomachs. it did help. any port in a storm.


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

Our last Standard ate Science Diet Sensitive.

We have decided to follow the soft food course given by the vet then get him back onto the food he got at the breeder. We have some now and can get it quickly online.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

I would actually question all of those foods, and the Frontline. Have you checked out Dog Food Advisor? Dog Food Reviews and Ratings | Dog Food Advisor

If your vet is recommending Science Diet, most of them are only 3 stars, and some of them only 2 stars. Most of them contain both wheat and corn - not good. My vet has even acknowledged to me that the nutrition training vets get is very inadequate.

Most of the Diamond Naturals average 4 stars, but some of them are as low as 2.5 stars.

If I had a new spoo I would want to be feeding it a 5 star food, but maybe I am too picky?

Frontline can cause a lot of side effects. I looked it up and was rather alarmed. 

I am hoping your puppy is on the mend today


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

My PWD has a history of very loose stools. We tried every test we could think. We tried probiotics and it got worse. I finally ended up.half home cooking and supplemented with a good limited ingredient canned food. There was improvement. The vet suggested science diet ID canned. Under protest I tried it, and immediately her stools firmed up perfectly. I have been trying all year to get her off ID but have not been successful. I do not know why ID helps but it does. I only use the canned, not the kibble.


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## Charlygrl2 (Mar 30, 2014)

Both my boys are sensitive to the flea medication their vet put them on Bravecto/Fluralaner by Merck and I give them the old-fashioned heart-guard. It is safe for pregnant and nursing dogs as well as dogs prone to seizures, you give it to them once every three months. Been on it for almost a year now and no side effects


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

Ahh the irony. He's eaten Diamond Naturals since he ate solid food. We switched to another food and he got terribly sick. Back to Diamond Naturals and he's on the mend.

I think I know which one I will keep him on for now.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Some dogs do seem to do best on one food, others need variety, and my spoo - well I had to put him on raw - nothing else worked and he had lost so much weight and tried everything plus almost 2 K in vet bills. Guess each dog is different in what they can eat.


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

Hopefully the wood chips he eats will keep his weight up :argh:


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

He's full of life, no vomiting, regular potty but his poop is still like very soft pudding. Worrying still, nothing shows up in tests.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Thanks for the update. It sounds like things are vastly better. You can try adding some pumpkin or a little rice to firm things up.


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

OK, more advice needed.

He continues to be full of energy, eating and drinking normally. Pooping on a regular schedule but sometimes it is still very runny (not wet) at least one out of three times.

He's eating the food he ate at his breeders plus a small amount of canned food the vet gave us for his stomach. He's been taking meds for his original issue. He steals the odd piece of of our other dogs food but not much. We've mostly stopped him eating leaves etc.

I hate to return to the vet since they clearly don't know what the issue is and are likely to rack up more costs in tests. He did not have this issue until he came to us.

As I write this I am wondering if his meds (for vomiting mainly) are causing the diarrhea. Some of the time the poop is well formed (though soft).

Opinions ?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

homemadehitshow said:


> OK, more advice needed.
> 
> He continues to be full of energy, eating and drinking normally. Pooping on a regular schedule but sometimes it is still very runny (not wet) at least one out of three times.
> 
> ...


Could he be eating too much food? Have you added probiotics to his diet (Fortiflora or Proviable are two good ones I mentioned earlier in the thread)? Have you tried adding some plain pumpkin? Slippery elm can help, too.


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## homemadehitshow (Jul 8, 2015)

Don't think he is eating too much. Quite a lot but not too much IMHO.

Vet told us to avoid adding any other things to his food while he's taking meds so we have not done those things.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Too much food is a possibility. In Javelin's first days at home he was getting his three meals and managed also to sneak food from the big dogs' bowl. It ran through him like a shot. Once we got that under control everything firmed right up.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Have you looked up all of the side effects of the meds he is taking? Also any side effects of spot on flea and tick, heart worm, vaccines, etc? The effects of those are often long lasting. 

Sending crossed fingers for your pup to get well


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