# Grooming Session Help!



## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I think some good points are mentioned in this thread (for drying, brushing): http://www.poodleforum.com/9-poodle-grooming/17374-grooming-101-groomers-q.html

Most common grooming mistakes:

- not grooming puppy young enough
- not playing with puppy's face, ears, feet, mouth
- not clipping the coat until it gets to be a matted mess and it has to be shaved
- not brushing all the way to the skin; only surface brushing and thinking you have a "matt-free" poodle when you don't, and get shocked when groomer says your dog needs to be shaved
- not keeping up with brushing, till hair gets matted, yet owner still bathes the dog, towel dries the dog and leaves to air dry. Yes you have a clean dog... but it's a clean matted dog. Hair still has to be shaved or you will be looking at hefty dematting fees
- people not realizing you can go to the groomers for bath, brush, blowdry, and face & feet trim (does not have to be a FULL groom)
- not setting up consistent grooming appts. If you set up every 2, 4, or 6 week grooms, there are discounts

Most important aspect of poodle coat care:

- With regular grooming, you CAN have nice haircuts that are longer than an inch long! Bath, blowdry, and brush!
- regular ear plucking and cleaning

Most challenging thing about a poodle's coat is when it goes through coat change. Or if an owner wants a full, plush topknot but their poodle's hair is more flimsy. You CAN get the haircuts you want, but you also have to work with the dog's hair texture and length. Not all poodles have the same type of hair (some are coarse and thick, others thin and flyaway).

I'm having trouble with the "things readily available to the everyday consumer..." - cause if a person is serious and committed about their poodle's coat care, they will plan and invest in the proper tools and nice products. I guess if had to tell someone to run to the store right now, I'd recommend the SPA line from Petco, but it IS pricey (16oz shampoo is about $12!).


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Thanks tokipoke! These are poodle puppy raisers for a service dog school, so I can't ask them to go out and buy a lot of expensive products. These aren't their dogs, and most of them are college students. That's why I said "available to the average consumer". 

They got their first grooms at about 9 weeks old and this organization requires minimum every 6 weeks grooming. Most of them choose to come every 4 weeks or so. All of the current pups are now 7-9 months old and very well accustomed to grooming. 

We are having this information session because a lot of them are starting to go through coat change, and having little to no experience with poodles, I want their raisers to be prepared for that. Most of the raisers also want to keep some length on their pups and I want them to understand what they should be doing in order to maintain that coat. They don't have the option of bringing the dogs to me for bath/dry (can bring them as often as every 2 weeks for fft if they choose) and they obviously won't have a good dryer. So I'm looking for tips to give them on bathing and drying their poodle at home in between grooms. 

I'm not a professional groomer, but I have access to equipment (except a dryer) provided by this school at a local kennel and I know how to do basic poodle cuts. I do this to keep these college students, who are all volunteers, from having to pay grooming fees. Maybe that clears things up a bit


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

tokipoke said:


> I guess if had to tell someone to run to the store right now, I'd recommend the SPA line from Petco, but it IS pricey (16oz shampoo is about $12!).


And I would recommend diluting this shampoo like we do in the salon  I'll always dilute shampoo now; so much easier to disperse.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

Sookster said:


> I'm teaching a "grooming session" for a group of poodle puppy raisers on how to properly maintain the coat (bathing, rinsing, combing, etc.) and want to make sure I have covered all the important topics.
> 
> For groomers:
> What are the most common grooming mistakes/problems you see and what do you tell clients?
> ...



Common mistakes:

Not brushing enough and not brushing down to the skin. I get a brush and show clients how to brush properly. 
Not getting a puppy in at a young age, so many people wait until 4-6 months, by then it's _almost_ too late. Their first grooming experience is bound to be on the negative side at that age, as they will panic and fight. Not much I can do at that point, except for to tell clients. they need to bring their baby in more often for a while, like once every 2 wks. Unfortunately, most don't. 

Most important aspects: 

A good weekly bath, blow dry, and brushing is, IMO, one of the most important things you can do for a poodle's coat. I've found that my poodle doesn't really even need to be brushed during the week when bathed regularly. 
If it's not feasible to bathe weekly, a good brush out with some leave in conditioner spray twice a week, depending on coat length, is the next best thing. 
Ear cleaning/checking. Poodles are prone to ear infections; those ears need to be checked often, and if dirty, cleaned. Also the teeth on minis and toys need regular brushing and checking, or if you prefer not to brush, raw meaty chew bones once or twice a week. Some standards need that, too. 

Challenging aspects:

Actually, since I'm a groomer, I don't find coat care too challenging. However, for the average dog owner, it's usually the brushing. A lot of times they haven't taught their dogs how to be brushed, and so the dog fights them, which makes them stop. The most common complaint I hear after I get finished telling clients they need to brush their dog regularly is "she doesn't like it!!" Ya know what, I don't "like" cleaning my room or the house, but it has to be done.  Of course, I don't tell clients that, I just explain how to train Fluffy to like it. 

Resources:

I've found that Espree is the best of all the readily available shampoos and conditioners. It's not terribly expensive either...really, anything cheaper is just going to be garbage anyway. I think Espree has a spray on conditioner too, although I'm not entirely sure about that. 

A lot of times, local petstores sell decent brushes, combs, nail clippers, etc. too. Not necessarily the best, but they work, especially for people grooming only one dog. Just don't go for the cheapest thing on the shelf....mid-priced is usually your best bet. I've found that the really high-priced equipment at petstores is not any better than the mid-priced stuff. And low-priced just falls apart as soon as you take it out of the package.... Lol...anyways. And tokipoke posted the link to the big grooming thread, that one has a lot of good basic info. 

Good luck with your class!! That sounds like fun.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

Sookster said:


> Thanks tokipoke! These are poodle puppy raisers for a service dog school, so I can't ask them to go out and buy a lot of expensive products. These aren't their dogs, and most of them are college students. That's why I said "available to the average consumer".
> 
> They got their first grooms at about 9 weeks old and this organization requires minimum every 6 weeks grooming. Most of them choose to come every 4 weeks or so. All of the current pups are now 7-9 months old and very well accustomed to grooming.
> 
> ...


If the coat change is really bad or it is too much upkeep... it is practical to keep the coat short. I'd say the most important tool after the bath is my high velocity force dryer... because it dries everything from the skin, and dries the hair straight. You can also see where mats are hiding. You can see any skin conditions the dog may have. It is really great that you have volunteers to raise these dogs. They will no doubt enrich someone's life in their forever home. Is there a way the service dog school can purchase a HV dryer for the volunteers? Maybe take donations?

I've attached a photo of a poodle I groomed. She did not get any length taken off her coat. All she got was a bath, brush, blowdry, FFT shave, and some trimming around the TK. Just a bath and brush makes such a difference!


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

We have a lady donating some funds (unsure of amount) specifically for grooming supplies (she is also one of these raisers). I use a Sullivan Express dryer (made for show cattle) at home but I really can't afford the wear and tear on my own equipment from grooming these pups. 

Do you have a brand or type of dryer you would recommend, that would hold up but be affordable? We are grooming ~10 poodles each month.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

This is the on I use at home: Amazon.com: Metro Vacuum AFTD-3 Air Force Commander 4.0-Peak HP Pet Dryer: Home Improvement - it's small, but maybe loud compared to some others. I pop cotton balls in Leroy's ears and I wear earplugs when I use it. I dry him in a tiny bathroom and the sound seems even louder, so I try to protect my ears. I like it for home use cause it's small, portable, and does the job. However if the coat is 3 inches or longer, it will take a while to force dry. More industrious HV dryers are the K9II or K9III (probably overkill), but they are pricey.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Not a groomer here, but do a lot of brushing. I have found I mostly use the metal poodle comb with wide teeth on her adult hair. I also use a slicker to smooth everything out. I never use a pin brush. If I could only have one tool for a puppy, it would be the greyhound comb with two different widths of tine on the same comb since the closer together ones help get shmutz out of their hair. 

I towel dry Bonnie if she gets a bath at home and don't use the blowdryer. She dries really quickly. She doesn't have that smooth fluff they get with the power driers, but I like her curls. 

I also think cotton balls to dry their ears after a bath is really important because they are gentle on the ears. I avoid Qtips as they are irritating. A bottle of ear cleaner used sparingly is important, too. I clean Bonnies ears gently once a week (a quick swipe, not a down and dirty cleanout).


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

I think a lot of good points have been touched upon.. But we are a missing nail care. Nails should be kept trimmed/dremmeled short possibly weekly for optimal foot care as the babes are to be working dogs.

Ryans has some rubber tipped slickers that I think are nice..pretty gentle on the skin, but ALWAYS have a comb fine/coarse sided to check for matts after brushing with either slickers or pin brush.. .

Agree with ear plucking, brushing teeth, and weekly bathing. Staying on top of things during the coat change can be more difficult for some than others.. just depends on how thick the coat is and how long it is kept. They need to concentrate on ears, back of head, collar, harness, tshirt area(if they wear clothes) under armpits, hocks and pasterns, muzzle if they sport a stache, and between toes if they dont sport poodle feet when it comes to brushing as they are more apt to mat up. And anywhere else they notice chewing or scratching.

the Metro tokipoke spoke of I have at home, and does great for smaller thinner coated breeds.. if you have thick coated std then maybe a metro master blaster or k9II is better.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

We let the pups stay fluffy if that's what the raiser wants, but 3 inches would be the upper end of length. Most of them are kept scissored down to about 2 inches on the legs, 1 inch on the body tops. About half of them get shaved down once/month instead of an actual groom because they just don't want to deal with the hair. 

Raisers aren't allowed to trim their own dogs nails unless they have experience working in a field where that was a required skill (grooming shop, vet tech, etc). Nails are trimmed about twice a month either by me or by their meeting coordinator at a training meeting. I pluck ears when they get groomed each month. 

Our program has a general "no more than one bath/month" rule for our pups to decrease skin issues. Do you think that the weekly bath is important enough for me to pressure them to lift this for poodles? What purpose does the weekly bath serve (other than cleaning) that makes it important to do weekly (considering they WILL NOT be getting a blow-out afterward, because the raisers don't have dryers)? I'm asking so that I have ammo if I approach the higher-ups about it. 

We also require them to have clean faces and feet until they are about 6 months old. After that, the face has to be kept short and the feet can be kept in teddy bear style if they choose. However, after 6 months of clean face/feet, none of them WANT hair on the face/feet anymore  No mustaches or doodle faces allowed. 

Thanks for all the suggestions. Does anyone have any tips I can give them for the actual bathing of the dog? Such as: 
-How to make sure they are getting shampoo all the way to the skin on the ones with longer coats? 
-How to make sure they are rinsing the dog thoroughly and not leaving shampoo residue?


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

For show dogs we bathe to help the hair grow as brushing dirty hair is like sandpaper to the hair. Also something more important to allergy dogs, is washing allergens or irritating material off their skin and coat. I notice if I dont bathe my dogs once a week or two they stop itching.. ever gone longer than 2 days of not wahing your hair.. it starts to itch.

-How to make sure they are getting shampoo all the way to the skin on the ones with longer coats? 
Hard to explain.. best of you dilute the shampoo in a gallon or two of water.. The hair when you first get it wet feels like the curls that are there, but the more you saturate the coat it feels silky somewhat like our hair would if we were in a pool or tub of water. Soaping up twice helps get the shampoo to the skin too.

-How to make sure they are rinsing the dog thoroughly and not leaving shampoo residue? When you think you are done rinse some more lol. If the dog is soap free, use a wet well rinsed hand to stroke thru the coat then rub your fingers together... if there are still soap bubbles then rinse until there is none.


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