# advice please, or my poodle may need rescuing!



## wowbaby (Jul 14, 2010)

We have a male standard poodle, about 9 months old. He's been with us since he was 5 months old, came from a reputable breeder. He's been on a 100% raw diet and is doing well with behavior except for a light chasing behavior that will occasionally cause him to knock down or run over one of the kids. Speaking of kids, I have five, ages 9 to 1. I also have a husband who has trouble dealing with life's little inconveniences--they agitate him more than you might expect. 

Well, our guy vomits in his crate about once or twice per week, usually with a little bone in it. No big deal to clean up, but for that reason we don't let him sleep outside his crate just yet. He has also had two episodes recently of explosive watery diarrhea. The first time was when crated about ten days ago while we were at church. We had run an extra errand and felt terrible that he was sick while we were gone. The second time was this morning. He had pooped through his crate onto the wall and the carpet sometime before 7am while we were sleeping. He didn't bark to go out, so we felt somewhat less sympathetic. He also either vomited or had diarrhea upstairs on the carpet later in the day--I suspect diarrhea. My husband and I are sick of steam cleaning and deodorizing, and with a full family life combined with his deranged light-chasing habit we are wondering if we should even have a dog. 

I suggested that we at least owe him a diet change and I got him some "taste of the wild" kibble to see if his guts are more stable on it. My husband say that the next time he poops out of his crate he is gone. 

Suggestions/encouragement for this stressful situation?


----------



## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

It sounds like your dog needs training. As does your husband . Training, and proper exercise, will solve the chasing.

The upset tummy could be from his diet. First of all, I'd let the dog fast for a day. (giving him water still of course) Then I'd feed him cooked sweet potato (plain) or canned pumpkin (not pie filling). If you want to feed him the TOTW you could mix it into the sweet potato. I'd do a full day of the sweet potato though, speaking from experience. If the fasting and sweet potato don't help take the dog to a Vet. Also, if the dog is showing any other issues or signs of distress, take it to the Vet.

Good luck!


----------



## wowbaby (Jul 14, 2010)

He does get plenty of exercise, my husband both run him about 2 miles per session. He gets out there for that about 3-4 times per week. Walks and backyard play in between. If you have any advice on training him out of the light chasing, I'm all ears. I have to pull the drapes if he's at it because he'll go after any sunbeam or shadow. We upped his exercise for that issue in particular. And we did fast him today--hope that helps.


----------



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Just be careful not to give him ANY sweet potato SKIN. There is something on it which can cause "sweet potato poisoning" which could magnify your problem or kill the dog. Just the flesh or the canned pumpkin.


----------



## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Food - just by what your provided it sounds like he is not getting enough food at times this may be why he has small pukes with some bone fragments. Olie will do this, I increased his portions and it stopped, it only happens once in a while. 

Its rare to have a dog not do well on Raw, but it happens. Kibble can really throw things off if the change was too quick for the system not to mention mixing it can cause bad stomach issues.

How many times a day are you feeding RAW? 
What are you feeding? 

I found with my spoos they need fed twice a day. I do one RAW meal with bone and one without. 

Also - I must be honest, you really should shut off most rooms and only allow the dog in certain confined areas to reduce the messes. Your dog has not adjusted yet and won't until there is a bit more structure in his surroundings

Also when in the crate, pull it away from the wall, get some newspapers and place 12 inches around the crate on all sides, again minimize the clean up. 

This can be fixed, I know it can be very aggravating and push your limits but to be fair, try things a little at a time - making too many changes in a short period will likely not work.


----------



## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

I wouldn't run him quite yet. It's usually recommend with larger dogs not to run with them until over a year. 

Is he jumping at the window? Or chasing the shadows on the floor?


----------



## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Rockporters said:


> It sounds like your dog needs training. As does your husband . Training, and proper exercise, will solve the chasing.


Agree here too. Leashing the dog will help. 

One other question how long has the dog been running 2 miles a day?


----------



## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

Olie said:


> Agree here too. Leashing the dog will help.
> 
> One other question how long has the dog been running 2 miles a day?


Olie is right, tethering the dog to you is a great way to solve behavioral issues and train. The other thing is that Poodles are incredibly smart and they need something to do at times. You might buy a puzzle or two. Not until he starts feeling better, of course, since most release kibble or treats.


----------



## wowbaby (Jul 14, 2010)

He doesn't run two miles every day, a few times per week and for about three months now. I've read that too about running, but believe me, at the pace we're going he's only going at a slow trot. We're not nearly fast enough for him and I can't imagine this pace could harm his growing bones/joints. He runs MUCH faster on his own in the yard. We jog because walking doesn't cut it for him. 

When we feed him raw we feed him twice per day. He get's mostly chicken with bone (drums or quarters) in the morning and something more exotic like beef neck bones or organ meat or turkey tails in the evening. He's been getting about or just under 2 pounds per day. He does throw up less when he's eating more like 2 lbs., but that doesn't explain the diarrhea does it? 

This is our second standard, and our first was kibble fed. She would occassionally vomit but didn't get this episodic watery stool problem. Our guy has had it one other time beside the two I mentioned,maybe a couple of months ago.


----------



## wowbaby (Jul 14, 2010)

Oh, and for the shadow chasing, he will occasionally chase or jump at a reflection on the wall, but he's mostly chasing shadows on the floor, sometimes his own which of course moves when he runs, so he ends up doing laps in the house and not paying much attention to babies and toddlers. He does pay some attention to not stepping on them but he's not 100% and they do get bumped now and then.


----------



## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

wowbaby said:


> When we feed him raw we feed him twice per day. He get's mostly chicken with bone (drums or quarters) in the morning and something more exotic like beef neck bones or organ meat or turkey tails in the evening. He's been getting about or just under 2 pounds per day. He does throw up less when he's eating more like 2 lbs., but that doesn't explain the diarrhea does it?


It wouldn't make him get the runs like that unless he cannot tolerate the chicken. Suri and Olie get about a pound a day total, they are around 50lbs but not near the energy you seem to have with your little guy. 

Hmm - I am stumped. I too would go with fasting and progress with a bland diet of cooked chicken, maybe a little rice and yogurt or sweet potato - no skins. Pumpkin is hard to get in some areas but works wonders short term for the digestive track. If going to kibble work it in slow especially with him coming off Raw.

Keep us posted. Hopefully you can get the help your family needs so you can keep your boy


----------



## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Have you had his stool checked? That would be my first step to rule out any medical reasons, and then work on the diet. 

I really dont mean to sound rude, but your husband is threatening to get rid of your dog because he gets sick? What does he do when one of your kids get sick and doesnt make it to the bathroom? Its not the dogs fault!


----------



## flufflvr (Mar 20, 2010)

Poor little guy. No fun to have a tummy ache. My routine when one of my fluffs gets sick is to fast for a day, as the others have said, then a little white chicken meat with rice baby cereal for a few days, along with some canned pumpkin, as the others have said. The rice baby cereal is really easy to digest, and usually does the trick, and if you've got babies in the house you might have some around. If that doesn't solve it, or if they stop showing interest in eating, then it's a trip to the vet.

I also would tether him to you. . . just attach his leash to your belt. Wherever you go, he goes, whatever you're doing, he waits beside you. If he isn't tethered he's crated or outside with the older kids (husband included in that group). 

Puppies are a lot of work for anyone, but even more so with lots of little kids around!


----------



## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Wowbaby:
Did you speak to your breeder about your concerns? She knows her line best and may give you some sound advice based on what her line produces. I never heard of a dog chasing their shadow, so I really have no idea what is going on here.
As for the Raw diet, my dogs are (violently) allergic to chicken/turkey necks etc.. and will do very poorly on a raw diet so they are fed kibble. When I was on raw and did it the right way, my dogs were always skinny and had runny stools at times with diarreha and at times very hard stools depending on the amout of RMB (raw meaty bones) they were gettig. I found that the main cause for diarrhea in my dogs was the turkey , chicken and maybe too much offal (organ meat, which is very rich and very high in cholesterol).
As a result of my dogs doing poorly on the raw diet, I put them on a high quality kibble and they are doing wonderfully, and yes, I still cook for my dogs and ad to their kibble on a daily basis. I suggest you might speak to your breeder in the hope you get some answers.
If you give up and do not want to take it with baby steps as Olie suggested then I think that in all fairness you should contact the breeder and have them take the dog back rather than find him a rescue home.. Most reputable breeders will take their breeding back no questions asked and since you say you purchased your pup at a reputable breeder, I have no doubt that in case you give up and dont want the dog that she will take him back and re-home him after fixing the problem.


----------



## Margotsmom (Jun 6, 2010)

I am going to try not to say anything about your husband or knocking toddlers down. You acquired a high energy very intelligent dog. He is 9 months old. I would attribute the shadow chasing to his being either bored and/or too wound up by the excitement level in a home with quite a few young children. Mine is very attracted to my other high energy dogs and her excitement level escalates accordingly. I would get him some interactive toys (not all have kibble required): Interactive Dog Toys
see "hide a squirrel" and "hide a bee" etc. I have a bunch of various plush toy interactives which are well used by my Spoo, and my other overly intelligent energizer bunny who is a Chinese Crested. There is one called Snakes in the Grass, and Bunnies in the Hat which have the small items attached to the hiding toy with elastic so you don't have to hunt down the toys to put them back inside. I personally believe that acquiring a dog is the same as having a child, you do not give them away if they become inconvenient, at the same time, if your family just realistically can't give this dog the time and attention he needs, then it is in his best interest to rehome him.


----------



## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Chasing shadows......When I temperament test puppies I look for prey drive by dragging a piece of white cloth around. Some puppies are on the material like "white on rice". When they are, I know this is an indication of higher than average prey drive. On the downside, dogs with higher prey drive love to chase stuff like kids, cars and cats. On the up side, all that drive can often be redirected into obedience or agility work, though these dogs do struggle with visual distractions. This type of dog is usually not placed in a home with young children for obvious reasons. 

I would say that if your dog is only chasing the kids a little bit, then bravo for him! However, he sounds like he has redirected his drive to chasing shadows and that he is being more than a little OCD about it. You need to start occupying this dog's mind on a more regular basis or the OCD behaviors can diversify and get worse. Have you considered Tracking as a dog sport? How about competitive Obedience. 

Re diarrhea..... If your husband is serious about rehoming him if he has diarrhea outside the crate again, then you should start looking for a new home now! I had a vet tell me once that the bread and butter of her practice was vomit and diarrhea. I don't know why he is vomiting, but a fecal sample will tell you if he has picked up an intestinal bug that is causing the diarrhea. Any chance he just ate something the kids left down? One of the boys from my last litter never had an issue until he ate one of the kid's peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Then.... POW.... explosive diarrhea all over the house.


----------



## wowbaby (Jul 14, 2010)

bigpoodleperson said:


> Have you had his stool checked? That would be my first step to rule out any medical reasons, and then work on the diet.
> 
> I really dont mean to sound rude, but your husband is threatening to get rid of your dog because he gets sick? What does he do when one of your kids get sick and doesnt make it to the bathroom? Its not the dogs fault!


Believe me, sometimes I think he'd like to re-home a kid or two! It's hard to describe. He's a playful affectionate dad and dog owner, loves the kids (and the number of them) and the dog. It's just at these rubber-meets-the-road moments when a normal person would say, "well, I knew this was a part of parenthood/dog ownership" and move on, instead he gets very agitated and stressed. It's something he's working on, and I'm doing my best to help.


----------



## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

Our boy just turned a year at the end of June, and I have to tell you, it's amazing how much he's settled in the last few months... 9 months is a tough age for pups, I'd say it's kinda like terrible 2's for kids!!  

I have a home daycare and lets just say, there are kids are everywhere, ALL the time! As much as the dog needs to be taught that chasing little people is NOT ALLOWED, the kids also had to learn to WALK more and be calm around the dog. It's a 2 way street. I taught the kids, that the minute the dog starts chasing, they need to STOP, and turn around and tell him NO, very firmly. I am also always there to correct Rogan, but I wanted the kids to be viewed as little authority figures as well so he would respect them. 

I will admit, it took some serious work, (and a few kids might have got knocked down in the process), but now, I marvel at how the the kids can run around the dog like little maniacs and he just sits there and watches. 

Give him some time, and he will become what you want him to be, just be firm and 100% consistent with him so he knows what you expect from him.
Just my 2 cents


----------



## wowbaby (Jul 14, 2010)

Thank you for the encouragement Heather. I do believe that he will mature into a fine poodle. He's pretty darn good already. I want to defend him a little here. He doesn't chase the kids. He's very calm and tolerant of them. It's this attraction to light and shadows that causes him to be occasionally careless--but it's relatively rare. If a kid gets out a magnifying glass to look at something and it makes a reflection, or if I dry pans when the sun is coming through the kitchen window, he'll pounce on the reflected light without thinking and the baby could be right there by me on the floor. I don't really think lashing him to me will help for that. I just try to be vigilant with the shades. I've tried two interactive toys but they were flops. I like the website linked above, but they don't seem to have anything in stock. I'll look into that more. And I may call a trainer in our area to see if some sessions targeted to that specific behavior might help. He has done very well with basic clicker training around here, I just don't know how to approach this behavior.


----------



## Purley (May 21, 2010)

I think you are being a little unkind about her husband. My husband is fine with things like puke and diarrhea - he mostly tells me about it and leaves me to clean it up. However, that is him and not her husband. I can honestly understand her husband's total frustration because it seems like its ongoing and he probably feels like the problem will never be solved. 

We have friends who like my dogs but their house is PERFECT. They are really good friends but the wife NEEDS the house to be immaculate and she says she could never have an animal there.

People are different, I love dogs but I can certainly understand her husband's frustration with the diarrhea.

My first inclination after it has gone on a couple of days is to take the dog to the vet's. My son's dog had a similar problem over a three day period and so my granddaughter and I took the dog to the vet's, along with a poop sample in an old cottage cheese container. The dog did not have an infection but she said from the sample she could tell he had an inflamed stomach and he is on a bland diet with rice and antibiotics and kaopectate if he has diarrhea again. For the first day he was on water only - no food at all.

Of course, all that happened when my son was working nights so the clean up was down to my granddaughter and I.


----------



## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Purley said:


> I think you are being a little unkind about her husband.
> 
> I can honestly understand her husband's total frustration because it seems like its ongoing and he probably feels like the problem will never be solved.


See, I have to disagree about being unkind about the husband - I think just about everyone stayed pretty on topic in this thread and made little to no mention. And I am sorry I also agree with the OP and also the mention of 5 kids and messes and how does he handle that? I didn't get into that but bottom line its part of the OP's post. She is trying to make this work and we gave advise based on our own experiences and I think all of us would agree that this is a tough situation and even mentioned that

The OP wants to make this work, and we do too - but I would be a bit fumed at my significant other if he was threatening to get rid of the dog because we haven't found a fix yet. Mine would never do that - nor let puke or crap lay for me to clean uphwell: Thats just my home......

I hope to see follow up on this soon.


----------



## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

The OP wants to make this work, and we do too - but I would be a bit fumed at my significant other if he was threatening to get rid of the dog because we haven't found a fix yet. Mine would never do that - nor let puke or crap lay for me to clean uphwell: Thats just my home......

I hope to see follow up on this soon.[/QUOTE]

I am in total agreement with Olie.
Too many dog owners take the easy way out rather than try to work out a solution to correct problems. We dont get rid of our kids for peeing and pooping in their diapers and at times in their undies or in bed when mature , so why get rid of a dog who encounters some problems which require the owners AS A TEAM to work on to correct ?! 
If my husband ever threatened me or made me choose between him and our dogs, I will hand him his luggage and make reservations for him at the furthest hotel. LOL I will, I am serious !


----------



## Margotsmom (Jun 6, 2010)

I just have to add that I certainly know the frustration of ongoing diarrhea - I had 9 dogs with Giardia at one point, brought in by a rescue dog (now I quarantine and test for this right away). It took three different rounds of drugs to finally clear it up. I was almost at the end of my rope. But that was 9 dogs with diarrhea and one person trying to cope with it. There are 345,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dogs on Petfinder looking for homes. I have no patience with adults getting a dog and then abandoning it. We have all seen the dogs put in rescue because people have a baby so the dog must go. Now I am getting off topic. Good luck Wowbaby, I am glad you have the patience to help your husband "work on it".


----------



## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Wowbaby:
It may seem to you that some here are ganging up on you and I dont blame you for feeling this way, however you must understand that in life we marry, we have kids AND DOGS for better and for worse. It is so disconcerting to hear of people having SO LITTLE regard for an animal's life and wanting to get rid of the dog for merely having diarrhea episodes which are NOT his fault but result from other issues. I would even go as far as saying that your puppy MAY BE so stressed in the 4 children loud and overly active envrironment that his diarrhea MAY BE stress induced and not as a result of his food. A new puppy finds it hard as it is to leave his breeder, familiar litter mates and place he was born and raised in and go to a new home, let alone get to that new home with a family running amock with numerous loud children, I am not at all surprised that the puppy would chase his tail or go for his shadow. 
Personally I would not have a dog in your situation, I would call the breeder and tell her the truth about your home situation AND your husband's feeling. I would do this STRICTLY for the emotional welfare of your puppy NOT your husband's, and let the breeder take the puppy back and re home him in a suitable home where he gets the proper attention , care AND patience from the owner (s).
I would never sell a puppy to a family boasting 4-5 active young children. No parent can possibly control five children, let alone have a new puppy above it all and having to train, and properly raise the pup. Just NOT fair to the puppy. I am not even thinking here about the family, I am thinking here about the puppy's welfare as he can not speak nor voice his needs and if you as a family see that your husband is less than prepared to tollerate the diarrhea episodes then do the pup a favor and call the breeder to re home him.. If the breeder is ethical and feels responsible for her dogs she will take the puppy back NO questions asked.. I know I would .
You know what the right thing for this puppy is.. Do the right thing and do it now, before the dog's personality is affected. They are very impressionable at this age and their experiences can either make or break them.
I am not only speaking here from a dog owner point of view but from a breeder's as well. I wish you the best of luck and would very much like to know what happens with this puppy in future.


----------



## wowbaby (Jul 14, 2010)

Look, Whitepoodles. I love dogs, poodles especially. I think there is evidence on this thread and other evidence (like the fact that he is obsessively well groomed-and I do all the trimming) that this dog is getting excellent loving care in this family. I have a very high regard for this dog's happiness or I would never be on this forum in the first place. But dogs are not equal to children or spouses. No, I would not send my spouse packing if he said "me or the dog" because I made vows before God to my husband and not to this poodle, as wonderful as he is. And if this dog were a danger to my children in any way he would have to go. But I'm here looking for solutions because we love him and want him to stay. I can tell you that it is most certainly possible to control five children, and more, I have seen it many times face to face with lovely families that we know. My children are not loud (well not constantly anyway) and do no run amuck. My breeder knows full well what my family is like and I don't think her irresponsible. What about the fact that this family boasts three boys to play fetch with the dog? Two little girls who love him? The two oldest are able to take him around the block for an emergency walk if he needs it and I'm tied up. He gets lots of love and NO abuse from the children because I do not neglect my duty to train them up right. 

And we have *somehow managed* to train this dog to wait, stay, sit when I cross my arms, lay down, roll over, spin, sit for food and we're working on heel. Some of the clicker training has been done by my seven year-old daughter with excellent results. And there's no one better than my three year old son to tell Lenny to "drop it" with an air of authority that commands obedience.

Yes, my husband wants to get rid of him. This sentiment alternates with hugging him and calling him "his poodle", laying on the floor with him and whatnot. Yesterday I wondered too if we should have a dog, since I was elbow deep in diarrhea. But today he is still soft and fresh from his bath yesterday, sweet and affectionate, and pooping normally again... and I'm sure he will stay. 

Thanks to all who gave helpful suggestions at his bump in the road. Especially those who could relate to the stress and who reminded me that he's still young. I have called a trainer about the light chasing and I'll try post an update on that.


----------



## dawns (Jun 29, 2010)

wowbaby-
very well said!! we should all understand that sometimes you get so frustrated you can say things you dont really mean (at least i do) and i bet that if it really came down to it your husband would never let you take "his poodle" anywhere.


----------



## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Good luck wowbaby, it sounds like a tough situation. 

Has he been to the vet yet?

Honestly, raw is a great way to go (my father-in-law's poodle thrives on raw), but some dogs simply don't do well on it. I think switching to high-quality commercial food (and giving his body time to adjust to this change) could help. 

The light chasing sounds very odd to me... somewhat compulsive? Since he's so bright and quick to learn tricks, I wonder if you can channel this quirk into a fun trick or activity? Have you heard of the sport of lure coursing? It's mostly for sighthounds, but some groups let all dogs compete. I bet he would adore that.


----------



## wowbaby (Jul 14, 2010)

He has been to the vet, not for this incident though since he seems back to normal today. 

I had not heard of lure coursing but just looked it up and I think he would LOVE it. How does one get involved with that sport? 

One of the training facilities I called also has a huge indoor space and tools for agility training. Judging by how he makes his own agility course out of Little Tikes slides and things in our yard I think he would really take to that too. We could even buy and keep some agility things in our yard if that was an outlet for him, we'll see.


----------



## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

*But dogs are not equal to children or spouses.* No, I would not send my spouse packing if he said "me or the dog" because I made vows before God to my husband and not to this poodle, as wonderful as he is. 


Well.. you see wowbaby.... your comment is precisely what sets you apart from me and others like me who I am sure share my feelings that dogs are to most humans who own them like their chidlren and babies. 

You summed your feelings about your puppy in a lump sum to make us here believe he is disposable because he is NOT equated to your children and husband. When taking a vow before God to be loyal and loving to a man you marry, the same comittment should be taken by a dog owner. For better or for worse.... Sadly some dog owners do not feel that a dog equates to a human being, and as a result SO MANY puppies end up in shelters, unwanted and unloved.

I do not mean to offend you, but as a breeder, I hope to GOD I never meet a client who would ever make such a comment to my face. Nugh said.


----------



## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

Purley said:


> I think you are being a little unkind about her husband.


This was probably because of me, I said that it sounded like both the pup and husband needed a bit of training . 

We've all experienced the diarrhea and vomiting thing. It's not fun. Personally I'd rather do just about anything, seriously anything, than clean up puke or watery diarrhea. However, it's a part of life and we have to suck it up and do what needs done.

I can completely understand her husband's frustration. It's fine to vent, we all need it at times. If he truly contemplates rehoming the dog that is an extreme reaction that imo shows lack of maturity and compassion.

FWIW wowbaby, I highly recommend not caging the dog, particularly on carpet, during his bouts of diarrhea. If you have a tiled area fence or gate him in there until it's passed. An area that's big enough that he doesn't have to walk or stand in the mess. Nothing worse than needing to clean up the cage, carpet, and walls while juggling a dog that's covered as well.


----------



## Dogsinstyle (Sep 6, 2009)

Ora,
I'm with you on this one. Some dog owners lack empathy for the dog.
Would you announce "if that kid of mine pukes one more time, out he goes"?
I'd more likely have some real concern about the health and sanity of the pup, rather than just my own displeasure at having to clean up the mess.
In this case, if I were the breeder, I'd ask to have the pup come back home, he is in a no-win situation.
Carole


----------



## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

I should add... Jasper had a severe reaction to chicken wings at one point. He was doing fine on them so it was completely unexpected. A nasty mess to greet me when I arrived back from a trip at 12a.m. Judging by posts on the board it doesn't seem to be all that uncommon. I'm sure there are ways to adjust the diet to not include chicken, if needed, in order to continue feeding raw. I've not been brave enough to try raw again :/. You'll have to figure out what your goals are for the pups diet.


----------



## wowbaby (Jul 14, 2010)

A family dog to me *is* part of the family. But it is not equal in dignity to the human members of my family. That doesn't mean his care suffers or that he is not loved, or that he is 'disposable', and it doesn't make me a bad dog owner. If that sets me apart from you or anyone here, so be it.


----------



## spoowhisperer (Apr 26, 2010)

Did you get any good advise here? I sure hope you found a few who cared enough to see your call for help. You indeed have a busy household, no doubt love your role as mom, wife and dog owner. I understand not all spouses see eye to eye on owning a pet, and that can create some stressful times getting through the rough spots. That doesn't make them a bad spouse. I'm not in love with football, baseball, snowmobiling, tractors, stock car racing that I want to watch and talk about it all the time, but I do participate in it for my husband, not because its what I want. Dogs are 24/7, so they can't be parked in the building when not in use. So I am thankful for spouses who say yes to dog/ dogs even though its not their thing.
I hope your change in idiet helps, I want this to work for you. As for the light chasing, I am aware of this issue and know you can train to help this.
Also, I know it would be your last resort, your very last resort, if the stress continues to run high, I hope you would contact your breeder if you feel good about them. 
I love my dogs very much, and my dogs are a big part of my life. For those who may know me, you'd understand this to be true. They are not my children, I have real children. But they are a part of our family, who are _always_ a top consideration. 
Please let us know if things turn around for you, wishing you luck!


----------



## FozziesMom (Jun 23, 2010)

and yet you titled the post: "Help or my dog may need to be rescued?"

I get that dog is not a human. But I'm curious, it sounds like the loyalty threshold to the dog is low if all it takes is some diahreea to have you consider rehoming the dog.

Maybe the husband should visit the doctor as well, some exercise, mediation/Yoga, and possibly anti anxiety medications can help with that. FozziesPa is prone to high stress, and he is now diligent about hitting the gym often enough to keep the anxiety mostly under control, but it grows worse when tired and hungry. But he knows it's HIS responsibility to control his emotions as an adult, I'm agnosting about the HOW but he's not allowed to take those emotions out on me, the dog or any one. 

A trainer can help too, somewhat like a therapist the spouse may listen more intently to the trainer than to the spouse when the trainer explains this is all "normal".

5 kids and a dog is crazymaking, to be sure. I guess that's why I don't have kids. I don't thrive on chaos and noise or an overly scheduled life. took me 20 years to get ready for the commitment that is my dear Fozzie.

hang in there. This too shall pass.


----------



## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

wowbaby said:


> He had pooped through his crate onto the wall and the carpet sometime before 7am while we were sleeping. He didn't bark to go out, so we felt somewhat less sympathetic.


Just a thought from my own experience. My daughter's spoo, Chalumeau, was reliably house trained at a very young age, but would have these weird instances of poop and vomit in her crate from time to time when she was about 5 or 6 months old... 

She also never barked to go out and we were stumped as to WHY she was reverting like this!! Then one night we kept her in bed with us and I woke to hear what sounded like chewing or chomping on something... I ran my hand down her body to her head to take away whatever it was I thought she was chewing on and found her in a full blown seizure!! I threw the lights on in the bedroom and my daughter held her helplessly in her arms until the seizure passed. As soon as the worst of it was over, Meau stood up and lost control of her bowels. It was a totally involuntary reaction to the seizure.

Our mystery had been solved, but we felt horrible knowing that this puppy had experienced numerous seizures in her crate while all alone! This was why she wasn't alerting us to the fact she needed to go out - she COULDN'T!! 

Hopefully this isn't what's happening with your boy when he poops in his crate, but just keep in mind it might be something you haven't considered. Thankfully, Meau stopped having seizures shortly after she was spayed. We hope she won't ever have them again!!

Good luck and best wishes!!

Barb


----------



## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

wowbaby;106684 said:


> A family dog to me *is* part of the family. But it is not equal in *dignity* to the human members of my family.
> 
> Wowbaby:
> 
> ...


----------



## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

Whoa, folks--can we please remember that this the OP's first day here, and take the rope down off the tree?!? You would think the lady had told us she had the boy out on a chain in the back yard and was using him at stud when she wasn't beating him. 

When people come to lists like this for help and get attacked, they go away and muddle through, when they could have benefitted from advice and help here. It sounds to me like the OP is trying hard to do the right thing--she cares enough to feed a complex diet; she is training both dog and children to coexist peacefully; and she has expressed interest in activities that might provide additional stimulation for her dog.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Feralpudel said:


> Whoa, folks--can we please remember that this the OP's first day here, and take the rope down off the tree?!? You would think the lady had told us she had the boy out on a chain in the back yard and was using him at stud when she wasn't beating him.
> 
> When people come to lists like this for help and get attacked, they go away and muddle through, when they could have benefitted from advice and help here. It sounds to me like the OP is trying hard to do the right thing--she cares enough to feed a complex diet; she is training both dog and children to coexist peacefully; and she has expressed interest in activities that might provide additional stimulation for her dog.


Agreed. And while it can be hard to not take things personally, especially when you feel your values differ greatly from someone else's, the reality is that she WANTS to keep this dog! She is asking for advice not judgement.

Wowbaby - If the diarrhea starts up again I would probably talk to the vet, discuss the situation and the stressful impact it is having in your house and hopefully the vet would have a solution to your puppy's tummy troubles!


----------



## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Feralpudel said:


> Whoa, folks--can we please remember that this the OP's first day here, and take the rope down off the tree?!? You would think the lady had told us she had the boy out on a chain in the back yard and was using him at stud when she wasn't beating him.
> 
> When people come to lists like this for help and get attacked, they go away and muddle through, when they could have benefitted from advice and help here. It sounds to me like the OP is trying hard to do the right thing--she cares enough to feed a complex diet; she is training both dog and children to coexist peacefully; and she has expressed interest in activities that might provide additional stimulation for her dog.


Totally agree!


----------



## 1Jurisdiva (May 4, 2010)

I second (or at this point 4th lol) Feralpudel's sentiment.

Wowbaby even said she posted in frustration to coming home to an explosive diarrhea situation, which I feel is totally understandable. In no way does anything she says indicate she is abusing her dog, and not everyone has the ideal support from spouses when it comes to pet ownership (though I pity the fool who marries me and expects an animal free environment). I wish I could offer her advice, but my mom never fed our dogs a raw diet. 

Here is where I will step in it: there are few people who love animals more than I, they have been some of my best friends and confidants my whole life, and I will go to many an extreme to see that they are healthy, comfortable, and happy. That said, if I were walking on the street one day and I saw a girl and a dog about to be hit by a car I would save the girl without pause. Animals are not people, and I think the anthropormorphizing of animals as the same as people often does the animals more harm than good, and can also (as seen in this thread) alienate many other animal lovers. THIS IS NOT me saying that whitepoodles is harming her dogs, or that I don't very much respect her breeding program, and devotion to her animals. I am simply putting forward that there is validity to wowbaby's point as well.


----------



## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Feralpudel said:


> Whoa, folks--can we please remember that this the OP's first day here, and take the rope down off the tree?!? You would think the lady had told us she had the boy out on a chain in the back yard and was using him at stud when she wasn't beating him.
> 
> When people come to lists like this for help and get attacked, they go away and muddle through, when they could have benefitted from advice and help here. It sounds to me like the OP is trying hard to do the right thing--she cares enough to feed a complex diet; she is training both dog and children to coexist peacefully; and she has expressed interest in activities that might provide additional stimulation for her dog.



Just a couple things bothering me here

Seriously, your first statement is pretty tough against some of us that started out trying to help here and IF you chose to make a statement like this, maybe re-read and make it a direct statement so people can defend themselves. This person was NOT attacked - you should try reading through some past threads if you want to see people being treated not so nice and I am one who HATES seeing it happen. 

Moving on - Many of us said:

WE COULD RELATE - I know I have been there and done that as I had Suri who had a horrible stomach the first 6 month we got her and she sh*t from one end of my living room to another a few times, and we were more afraid of what was happening then thinking for a minute that we could not do this - so those wanting to act as if some of are being rude and attacking need to re-read and assess your comments and agree to disagree BUT I STAND on the fact that NOBODY here attempted to send this thread south. 

I was worried SICK by the title - MY DOG MAY NEED RESCUING thinking WTH can we do to help her and her family. I am SICK TO DEATH of dogs being disposable to people......not saying this is the "reality" here but this is what the OP said not us.


ALSO - where did the abusing the dog come in? :wacko:


----------



## spoowhisperer (Apr 26, 2010)

PaddleAddict said:


> Totally agree!


Here here! There is a way to reach out to people and still get get your message across. That being said, I do understand peoples passion, and I appreciate their point of view. Their point of view ( as is all views) is important, and we can learn so much! It's just that all the heat does not make for a sharing/learning atmosphere. If we all care, and I think we all do, its such a great venue to be helpful on. I WANT to hear how dogs are your children, I WANT to hear how your dogs are part of your lives! It makes my world bigger, bringing new experiences to me. I'm not wrong in how I share my life with my dogs, you are not wrong in how you share your lives with your dogs. I think we all would agree that a pet is not merely a pet! We are all different, and that's o'k! I want to learn from all, and I'd like to think I would have support from many also should I have a question or call out for help! 
_I really do_ respect the breeders and very involved dog owners who are so knowledgeable. But please, that precious knowledge gets lost in the heat! Your input is needed!


----------



## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Rockporters said:


> This was probably because of me, I said that it sounded like both the pup and husband needed a bit of training .


I didn't say anything earlier but I so agreed with this! And damn my BF for not sticking with the "right" training recalls !! He needs some training too - I sure would agree if you told me that, thats for sure - LOL. 

I thought we were being nice!


----------



## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Jurisdiva:
Precisely. As I sad, this is what sets me and others like me apart from Wowbaby.
It is one thing to feel that dogs do not have dignity which humans posess and according to wowbaby should not be equated to the value that humans hold in our society......and another to loudly post these uncalled for comments in public forum which boasts numerous dog lovers who like myself very much equate their dogs to being their babies, and ones who feel that dogs do have dignity...... sadly at times much more so than some humans I know do.
Lets move on.. we have to agree to disagree.


----------



## DoeValley Poodles (Jun 12, 2010)

Rule out a medical problem. Easy & cheap test, bring a stool sample to the vet. They can check for parasites that can cause on & off diarrhea +/- vomiting (giardia, coccidia etc). Parasites don't shed eggs everyday so even if a sample was negative a short while ago doesn't mean they are parasite free.

I have never heard of a problem with sweet potato skins. In fact, I feed them to my dogs often. What is supposed to happen?


----------



## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

FozziesMom said:


> and yet you titled the post: "Help or my dog may need to be rescued?"
> 
> I get that dog is not a human. But I'm curious, it sounds like the loyalty threshold to the dog is low if all it takes is some diahreea to have you consider rehoming the dog.
> 
> ...


Good points you offer here. 

Stress managment for all people is key!! 

My dogs are my theropy (my daughter is grown, sort of she is 20) - I know people think I am nuts but my dogs over the years saved me from losing my mind over a very upsetting divorce. I have recently been working out AND doing Yogo and what a difference it does make in your over all thought process. 

We all truely want to know what the outcome is here because there are several issues on the table and I honestly feel that everyone that posted here had good points that needed to be heard. I just think that if its fact call it what it is, but when its a perception......maybe go at it differently. 

whitepoodles - I think you offered a wealth of options coming from someone with your YEARS of experience.


----------



## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

As I posted before I do not mean to offend or disrespect anyone includging wowbaby on this board.
I do however believe that taking a step back, re-thinking the dog's situation in your home vis a vis what your husband does and does not feel comfortable with is a must for you. 
Trust me, dealing with diarreah is not as bad as dealing with a poodle who has Addison's Epilepsy or AI issues needing consistent supervision, daily care, BIG vet bills and comittment which when one has 4 young children needing constant tending will not be much left for any puppy in need.
Your puppy has diarreha now.. what about if he had worse in future, how would you or especially your husband deal with a dog who may (god forbid) come down with Epilepsy that will make him not only have very loose stools but also will make a monthly dent in your pocket and finances. 
If you are freaking out and the diarrhea causes such uneasiness at home with your husband having to deal with a couple of accidents, what would you and your husband be like if this puppy ever came down with a genetic ailment that consistently needs your attention time and financial efforts. What would your husband say then.
I am sorry but I am looking at this in a very objective manner and not only for what today brings, but what the future may bring and try to think how you would react if the situation was more serious in future than having merely diarrhea episodes.
Maybe it is best as I mentioned above to sit down and calmly review your situation and that of the pup's. I am sure that you are trying your best to integrate him into your family and sincerely want him to remain with you, however I honestly feel and I may be bashed on my head by a few here that you should revise your thinking and maybe say to yourself that now is not the right time to get a puppy. Maybe wait for your children to grow up a bit and have time to work on your husband some more into accepting the fact the like children dogs are also not perfect and do have accidents in the house which at times they can not help.
If I were in your place and wanting to do well by this puppy, and seeing that it is way too hectic for you and makes you go into a frenzy with worry and not knowing who to please first, your husband or the puppy/or yourself, take a step back , re asses the situation always with the welfare of the puppy in mind and I know that you will do the right thing at the end.
I know what I would do in your situation but I know that you will not agree with me, so I will dispense with making my statement.
I wish you the best of luck and I sincerely hope that this puppy does find a loving accepting home with you to include your husband. I have not checked this post or re read it so am sending it as is.. If any mistakes, sorry.


----------



## wowbaby (Jul 14, 2010)

You all may have years of experience, but I'm not as naive as you might think. I stated earlier that this is our second Standard Poodle. My husband and I owned her earlier in our marriage, we did have children at that time as well, and they were much smaller. That poodle had Addisons as well as SA. Whitepoodles, you really have no idea how many years I have spent with dogs, or how I care for them or what we've been through, or what the dynamic in a large-family household is like. I told myself that I wouldn't respond to this thread anymore, at least not any post with accusations or speculation in it, but this last time I will just say that you don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## Karma'sACat (Jun 1, 2010)

My Lola had those problems because of a serious chicken allergy. We removed poultry from her raw diet and she is doing really well (she eats lots of beef and pork plus an organ grind since the princess won't eat regular organs). She can't handle any kibble (which I found out after one disastrous switch from raw to a high quality, grain free kibble done properly. I was cleaning explosive D every morning (and with my limited mobility, it is an extra "fun" experience).
I also add plain, low fat yogurt to her food for the added good bacteria and some probiotics. I actually do this for both my dogs even though Dixie only has stomach problems if she is ill (which is rare).

As for the response you got...posting you might give up your dog isn't going to be taken lightly by those who have been heavily involved in animals for a long time. My family and I have fostered quite a few "We couldn't fix this so the pet had to go" dogs, cats, guinea pigs and sugar gliders. So when I hear he might need to be rescued because he has the big D, I do go up in flames. While you may have meant it jokingly, it really isn't something you should ever joke about since many of us have the results of that (my family and I have adopted our special needs-whether behavior, medical, etc-because we don't trust people to change their minds) or have helped the pet who was kicked out that way.
And yea, I did pick the dog and have back an engagement ring over an "It's me or the dog" argument. Best decision I ever made since the dog went on to become my service dog and the ex is 3 years older than me and has yet to graduate college or get his first job.:wacko:


----------



## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

wowbaby, it sounds like agility would be GREAT outlet for this dog and should hopefully help cut down on the light-chasing behavior. Especially if you already have a makeshift 'agility course' of playground equipment in the backyard. :dancing2:

Also wanted to second (third? fifth?) that some dogs can have major sensitivity to chicken for whatever reason. I've heard that lamb is better for sensitive stomachs.

And I get that you have a big family, but seriously, why would that mean you can't be a good dog owner? That's just ridiculous! There are six kids in my family and there were always dogs in the family, including puppies! It can definitely be done, especially if you're willing to train your children (which you are!). 

Whitepoodles, I really don't want to offend you further, but I'm a bit confused about what you find so offensive about what the OP has said? I mean, dogs do a lot of things on a regular basis that we'd consider "undignified" (to say the least!) in a person. Imagine sending your human guests out to poo in the yard, for example! That doesn't mean that dogs are trash or disposable, just that they aren't people, that's all. And that's not necessarily a bad thing! I do agree, though, that it should NEVER come down to a choice between spouse and dog in the first place!! Assuming the dog isn't actively dangerous to your spouse, anyway, and even then it would have to be a pretty extreme case. I don't know that someone who would put me in that kind of a bind is worth my time anyway! (edit: I don't think your advice about rehoming is overly harsh, either - it sounds like it was an option the OP was considering herself. OP, you can take it or leave it, just like any other advice given here.)

*A general note...* (if I may): This thread has been really helpful and supportive, at least for the most part. I just want to remind everybody that when you're offended or upset, it's always a good idea to take a couple of deep breaths and count to 10 (or 20, depending on how upset you are), then think before responding. It's hard to figure out tone online - life is easier if you just _assume good will_ from your fellow posters.


----------



## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

wowbaby said:


> You all may have years of experience, but I'm not as naive as you might think. I stated earlier that this is our second Standard Poodle. My husband and I owned her earlier in our marriage, we did have children at that time as well, and they were much smaller. That poodle had Addisons as well as SA. Whitepoodles, you really have no idea how many years I have spent with dogs, or how I care for them or what we've been through, or what the dynamic in a large-family household is like. I told myself that I wouldn't respond to this thread anymore, at least not any post with accusations or speculation in it, but this last time I will just say that you don't know what you're talking about.


Wowbaby - I am surprised with this much experience you would have some idea that taking a dog to a vet that has regular runs to rule out a health problem - your words a couple times a week. As well as how to adjust a dogs diet from Raw to kibble. 

I am not trying to be rude but to say YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT to someone that offered good advice that you JUST DONT AGREE WITH is juvenile. I would say this to a friend, or anyone in my family - so my tone is a shake my head a bit and hope you see this.

You must understand YOU provided the information to this thread and WE on this public forum thought we were offering support and shared experience to someone that honestly sounded as if you needed help FAST so your dog was NOT placed in rescue! That was the goal here.

That being said, I too think poultry may be an issue.


----------



## wowbaby (Jul 14, 2010)

Oh my gosh. He runs (exercises) a couple of times per week. He has had three episodes total of watery diarrhea since he's been on raw in the last 3 months. Silly misunderstanding! I haven't taken him to the vet about it because it has each time only lasted 12 hours or so and cleared after a fast and re-introduction of normal diet. It was an extremely messy twelve hours that I would like to avoid (more or less) in the future and I'm wondering if raw-fed dogs experience diarrhea more frequently, and I'm therefore changing his diet back to very high quality kibble with yogurt which he was on before raw. I'm sorry I ever used the 'R' word. I was venting out of frustration. I see and understand more fully now that some people here have very good reason to be set off by that word. Forgive me.


----------



## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

wowbaby said:


> Oh my gosh. He runs (exercises) a couple of times per week. He has had three episodes total of watery diarrhea since he's been on raw in the last 3 months. Silly misunderstanding! I haven't taken him to the vet about it because it has each time only lasted 12 hours or so and cleared after a fast and re-introduction of normal diet.


Throwing up from time to time is normal when on Raw. From my experience. It's just a matter of adjusting the intake of bone and possibly increasing or decreasing the amount. 

If the runs are NOT that often then it may be nerves. Or IB - which I am sure Suri has a tad of this and we went thru several high quality kibble and Raw was the trick for her. 

Have you tried probiotics? Or a digestive enhancer? These can work, many report great results (they didn't do much for Suri) You just add a bit in during breakfast or what I did was gave her yogurt and mixed it in.

Back to the nerves thing - this is not being rude but just maybe the activity around him with the kids is a lot of energy and he needs to adjust. Olie is like this. When we have company (most of our friends have multiple children) he wags his tail non-stop going from one person to the next not really knowing what to do.

Thats why we tether him or crate him until he can be in a calmer state. You/we really have to work with a dog to be calm and teach them that until he is calm the rewards come and then everyone can romp and play. I am sure your kids are lovely and well behaved but dogs can only tolerate so much, where as we can ignore it or not pay it much attention. 

Sounds like a combo of things. I would trace back anything similar about when he had these runs - was it a certain protein you fed, something change in the home with sleeping or level of activity. It's really a guessing game until you can narrow in on the underlining issues.

Again - we hope this works out and would love to know how you make out, what you are trying etc.


----------



## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

wowbaby said:


> I'm sorry I ever used the 'R' word. I was venting out of frustration. I see and understand more fully now that some people here have very good reason to be set off by that word. Forgive me.


I am so happy to see that you understand how some people got on high alert as the thread title is very alerting.
I know that you had some issues with whitepoodles, let me say first that she is my breeder and friend. All the advice she was giving you was from a protective instinct for your poodle that you in the title suggested could need rescuing.

I really hope that everything works out for you and your family including Lenny.


----------



## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

"]you don't know what you're talking about[/SIZE].[/QUOTE]

Wowbaby:

You are missing the point here. I gave you my opinion as others did on this thread since you publicly asked for advice and possible solutions to your problem with your new puppy. 
I am sorry you feel UNcomfortable with what some of us had to say/suggest to you. I have met enough clients and prospective clients in my 16 years breeding experience to "_*Know what I am talking about*_" , contrary to what you may believe, and I have been privy to some stories similar to your situation where the puppy was the looser at the end of the stick, either abandoned, returned to the breeder , or dropped at a shelter.
I am NOT saying ofcourse that you will ever resort to the latter, because I honestly believe you love this puppy and want to keep it, however, wanting to keep this puppy, against your husband's wishes (since you repeatedly say that your husband wants to GET RID OF THE DOG) is not a healthy situation for any puppy, moreover dealing with 4 very young and active children and being elbow deep in poop, which creates tension between you and your husband, again is not a good situation. To me this is a VERY unhealthy situation for any dog, puppy or adult. When I sell a puppy to a client IF I FEEL that either the husband or wife is NOT sure whether they want the puppy or not, I immediately forgo the sale. Getting and more importantly keeping a puppy has to be mutually agreed upon by both husband and wife.
Lastly, some of us (as was said already) on this forum LOVE OUR DOGS and consider our dogs as OUR CHILDREN.. and to hear someone like you stating that 
1. Dogs do not have the same dignity as humans do, and, 
2. Dogs can never be equated to children, husband....etc...

SORRY IS DOWN RIGHT INSULTING TO ME and I am sure many dog lovers who feel the same as I do about their dogs.

It is one thing for you to believe in your aforementioned statements, but another to put it in print and in public forum. 

Lastly, to me and my husband (and all my clients) our dogs ARE our children and as far as DIGNITY goes, believe me when I say that I have met numerous humans who have by far LESS dignity than an animal.


----------



## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Wowbaby:

My dogs have also (in past) been on raw diet. Some dogs can tollerate it while others cant. Through experience I had found out that my dogs are extremely allergic to chicken and turkey especially.
While on Raw they had explosive diarrhea much like your puppy does now.
I went to my vet, purchased METRONIDAZOLE tablets and gave a 4 day metro course to all my dogs to clear up the diarrhea. This treatment helped immediately.
I then put them on a good quality kibble (Fromm Salmon Veggies) away from beef and chicken protein and into fish and everything cleared up.
My dogs have been now for the past 5 years on FROMM Salmon A La Veggies and are doing wonderfully on it and I never had to pick up soft poop. I also cook for my dogs, I make them a combination of legumes, raw grated veggies and boiled beef with rice, put it all together mix it and freeze it in yogurt containers. Take out a container from the fridge thaw it and put 3 TBSP on the dog's kibble twice daily. If your puppy is under 4 months old he should be eating X 3 / day.. If older than that X2/per day.
With the Metronidazole antibiotics (from your vet) get yourself the sticky Italian rice.. Boil 3 cups of water and then put 1 cup of that rice. Having more water than rice. Put this rice together with boiled minced beef (lean only) and in combination with the antibiotics the diarrhea will clear up. This mediction is also given to puppies with Giardia (thank God I never had it, but did have diarrhea from other causes).. The rice/minced beef combination and the Metro pills should clear up the diarrhea within 3 days completely. Then slowly move your dog to kibble, hopefully based on fish since you are not sure if he is allergic to beef and/or chicken or both. Ofal (if you feed raw) kidney, heart, liver also tends to give upset stomach if fed more than needed. I would get away from Raw food because it seems that your dog can not tollerate it and move it to a fish based diet. (MO)

Lets put our swords down...I see that you are going to keep your puppy so the above is my input in regards to the diarrhea and diet. Hope this helps.


----------



## newspoomom (Jun 16, 2010)

I would just like to say, that as a new member, this thread is very off-putting. I completely agree with whtepoodles about animal companions and their place in the family, but I hate the way the OP has been vilified. I feel this could have been handled better. 

Now, I know people will say that is was handled well. But from a new member's perspective, it makes me fearful to post because I might _inadvertently_ speak counter to the mainstream and feel isolated as a result.

Again, I know what I say might be unpopular, but if members really want to help people work out issues with their dog's, a softer touch might be more effective. Then new members would feel comfortable bringing any and all concerns here before dumping at the pound.

Just my perspective as a new member....


----------



## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

i am a fairly new member here, i think folks here are very gentle but very passionate here. but on another forum i am on, you'd be surprised at how direct we are there. 

the other forum (not poodle related), we are all very passionate, but also we don't sugar coat things and we don't censor and we get into a lot of really serious discussions ... a lot off topic! some get super heated.

also, you have to remember that this is online, you can't see the other member's face, you can't see what their eyes are relating, you can't hear inflection in their voice.


----------



## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

we are all very passionate, but also we don't sugar coat things and we don't censor and we get into a lot of really serious discussions ... 

Newspoomom:
I agree with Faerie. I dont see where on this thread anyone DUMPED as you said on wowbaby. She asked for help, we gave it to her.
She did not like what SOME of us had to say and she felt we are not in her court. Sorry, when someone asks for help they will get it even if they dont like what they hear. 
Faerie said that they do not sugar coat on her other forum and I do agree that no one should sugar coat. If some of us would of "sugar coated" our posts to Wowbaby, I believe we would of done her a diservice more than helped. she wanted help and she got several responses. We all have opinions we are allowed to share with others whether they like it or not, but to state that anyone (including myself) DUMPED on wowbaby is a far stretch. To be passionate and vocal and to express displeasure is not wrong and if someone takes it as "dumping" than I am sorry if this is how they feel.
Everything that was posted on this thread to my belief was constructive help with first and foremost the puppy's welfare in mind.
Having said this, when I and others to whom dogs are a major part of our lives and considered as our children and very much a part of our family just like our husbands and/or children are to hear someone state that dogs do not posess the same value as children and husbands do or to state that dogs do not have the dignity that humans do is SORRY outright insulent and uncalled for.
I believe that the conversation got somewhat heated on my part STRICTLY due to the uncalled for insensitive remarks made by wowbaby in regards to dogs in general. If you read most of the posts, you will see that she also apologised for some of her comments. 
I hope you do not fear posting here, you have no reason to fear.. While I feel that this conversation was somewhat heated, it still was maintained in civil mode and no bashing was done, just voicing our passion and opinion about how we feel re: the situation.


----------



## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

Two of my Cavalier pups had very bad tummys so much that they had bloody D for months :S 

And believe me it was very frustrating to clean.

We put the dogs on Iams® Veterinary Formulas Intestinal Low-Residue™/Canine Dry Formula 
It worked wonders for them.

I feed my spoos Hills Science Plan Chicken Advanced Fitness and they love it, I have never had any problem with loose stool or D

Your dog is only 9 months old and that is a very hard age, my Vaka just turned one and she is getting much better now but was hard dog to have when she was younger, but I knew that  

I would just make more preparations and make sure that the dog can not soil your house in the cage maybe keep it in another room that does not have carpets.

I would also sit down with your hubby explain the situation to him, that the dog is not leaving the family, he is still a pup and these things take time.

If this end in you giving up the dog please contact the breeder first, s/he might want the dog back, I know I would.

Just that one of my puppy buyers was thinking of returning the pup, would be enough for me to want it back right away.


----------



## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

For the explosive poos: this os going to sound odd, but does it have a worse than normal smell to it? It sounds a lot like giardia, which can be difficult to diagnose, since it sheds in cycles. I had it run though here and spent lots of money and lots of time cleaning up poo. What finally worked was putting everyone on a cycle of panacur(its a de-wormer) 3 days in a row, every 10 days for about a month and a half. that, along with a full round of flagyl worked wonders, even though every time a fecal was done nothing popped up. 

Shadow/light chasing: 
Probably the best thing you can do is try to "snap" lenny out of his OCD type behaviors with a loud or sudden noise (ehh ehh or clapping hands) and redirecting his attention to somthing else (a tennis ball, favorite toy ect) alternately, you may have a doggie daycare center around you (I know of one thats a couple hours away from Yipsi, but nothing close by, sorry) 
Instead of having to try to live in darkness, give him something better to do. 
Its great that you are able to manage kids and a dog, I couldn't. Thats just me. 

We all have our frustrations, and we all cope differently. If he doesn't work with your family, your breeder should be more than willing to take him back. 
Its not something to be embarassed about, its not like this is your tenth puppy that you got, kept for a week and returned, or gave away. Thats the disposable mentality that I personally cant stand, but giving up a dog for valid reasons when you have exahusted all options is the right thing to do in some situations. stuff happens. 


Good luck!


----------



## wowbaby (Jul 14, 2010)

I only really feel dumped on by whitepoodles, and that is because she seemed to insult my parenting and my childrens' conduct by her remarks. That is how I took it anyway. It is one think to query about whether or not the children might be stressing the dog and quite another to rant on about how she thinks they must behave, and how impossible it would be for me to control them because of their sheer horrifying number. I can take the criticisms of my husband. They are for the most part valid. He needs to commit to his decision to get a dog and let go of regrets that are not helpful. And I apologized for insinuating that I would drop this dog at the pound. That was meant to sound over the top but instead was very incendiary. I did not apologize for my statement that to me dogs do not have the same dignity as human beings. I was speaking in a theological or philosophical sense, which is the sense in which I most often consider the notion of dignity, but I can see how someone might take my meaning to be that a dog has no feelings or worth. I would hope my other posts about raw feeding and agility training and the attention he gets would make it plain that I do value dogs and this dog very highly indeed. The posts I found most helpful were those with the seizure information, the post-diarrhea diet recommendations, the training and sport suggestions, the reminder that 9 months is a hard age, the anecdotal evidence that many dogs on raw get diarrhea, and the support from those who understand that spouses aren't always on the same page, also the lady who came from a large family, since a few here seemed appalled that I would bring a dog into a family so blessed with children. I don't judge this entire forum by this thread. I have learned to choose my words carefully, and I believe it's still very worthwhile to be among poodle people like myself.


----------



## wowbaby (Jul 14, 2010)

The giardia stuff is helpful also, thank you. Dh and I did have a talk last night, and he seems ready to give up on misgivings and commit to the decision he made to get a puppy. He WAS on board with me for that initial decision, and he sees now how it is unfair to everyone to revisit it now. Thank you all for your consideration of this situation.


----------



## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

wowbaby said:


> I only really feel dumped on by whitepoodles, and that is because she seemed to insult my parenting and my childrens' conduct by her remarks.
> 
> 
> NO, wowbaby, I insulted neither your parenting nor your childrens' conduct. Pls. go back and review all my posts. I never used a derogatory remark about your parenting nor about your children. I did however bash you for implying that dogs are not as worthy as children or a husband and that they have less dignity than humans do.. I do admit that for your insulent remarks about dogs and their value in society I put you against the wall.
> ...


----------



## Margotsmom (Jun 6, 2010)

Wowbaby I think this discussion has been quire complete, it really serves no purpose to say I appreciate this this and this but not HER. Really, not necessary and does nothing but serve to continue to fan flames. Why did you need to do that. That is a rhetorical statement and not intended to draw any further discussion. I think we are all done here. I hope so. If not I hope the admin folk will lock this thread to make it stop.


----------



## FozziesMom (Jun 23, 2010)

wowbaby said:


> I'm sorry I ever used the 'R' word. I was venting out of frustration. I see and understand more fully now that some people here have very good reason to be set off by that word. Forgive me.


That's really a class act to come and acknowledge that. Nicely done. I'm going to guess more than a few folks will step up to help. 

Now let's help wowbaby get this doggie's bowels out their uproar, and not get ours in an uproar anymore either!


----------



## LuvPoo (May 8, 2010)

*Best of luck to you*

Hi Wowbaby -

I just read your original post now and much of the response. I know how difficult it is to manage various personalities in a household. It sounds like you've done a great job training your poodle given how many kids you have. He's 9 months old, in other words, a teenager - so some of that needs consideration.
I would get him to your vet and have him thoroughly checked out for everything that could be affecting his stomach & bowels, including having his blood checked. (Our 2nd poodle died recently of liver disease at 3.5 years. This was manifested in constant tummy trouble & behavioral problems from early on until he got very sick.)
I'm also going to go out on a limb here and say that this raw diet thing is may not be such a great idea. I certainly believe in feeding a dog a good quality, high protein diet, but raw? I just started hearing about this in the past few years. Cooking meat kills lots of bad germs. That's why we do it for ourselves.

Best of luck to you.


----------



## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

LuvPoo said:


> Hi Wowbaby -
> 
> I just read your original post now and much of the response. I know how difficult it is to manage various personalities in a household. It sounds like you've done a great job training your poodle given how many kids you have. He's 9 months old, in other words, a teenager - so some of that needs consideration.
> I would get him to your vet and have him thoroughly checked out for everything that could be affecting his stomach & bowels, including having his blood checked. (Our 2nd poodle died recently of liver disease at 3.5 years. This was manifested in constant tummy trouble & behavioral problems from early on until he got very sick.)
> ...


Sorry about your dogs passing.

Just a note on the Raw - it has excellent results on the health of poodles if their bodies allow and most do. A dogs entire digestive system is completely different to humans - dogs are from the wild and at one time were not fed kibble but Raw meat from whatever animal they killed or found dead. For us cooking does kills bacteria in most cases, as we are human. 

The OP's commitment to feeding Raw was a great one and will need to determine what's best for her dog (food wise). Hopefully the issues are taken care of and the dog will be back to healthy eating and good stools.


----------



## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Olie said:


> Sorry about your dogs passing.
> 
> Ollie:
> I think there is a confusion sorry to bring this up.. It is not wowbaby's puppy that passed away. It is Pinky's puppy girl.. I am so devastated for her and so sorry that this happened to such a wonderful owner who did try to do the best for her puppy against all odds.
> So it is Pinky not Wowbaby who unfortunately lost her beloved pet.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Actually, Olie was replying to *Luvpoo* who said that her 2nd poodle recently died at the age of 3.5 due to liver disease.


----------



## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

ChocolateMillie;107915 said:


> Actually, Olie was replying to *Luvpoo* who said that her 2nd poodle recently died at the age of 3.5 due to liver disease.


ChocolateMillie:
Thank you for the correction, entirely my misunderstanding.. I didnt read all posts and assumed it was wowbaby's dog.
It is so sad to lose a dog so young.


----------



## TeddyTails (Apr 19, 2010)

Hi Wowbaby,

I can understand your situation. I too had a SPOO who was obsessed with shadows and the light (especially flashlights!). He was my tennis ball dog, totally obsessed with tennis ball and no one could touch a flashlight (I suppose the flashlight thing was my own fault since I took him out at night and carried a flashlight). My SPOO had a HUGE prey drive. Hence the reason for him chasing shadows, reflection of his dog tags in the sun, bugs, etc. Anything that moved just a little caught his attention!

I basically worked to channel his energy elsewhere. I purchased a "chuck-it" for his tennis ball obsession and we played several times a day. You mentioned you have some children, this will be a great way to burn off your pup's energy chasing the ball. I also taught him "catch". Basically whatever I would throw he would catch, he also learned to pick up things I would drop on the floor. To me, it sounds like your pup is looking for a job. I was in the process of teaching him fly ball, but unfortunately my pup got sick. But, right up to the last minute before my boy was put to sleep he had his tennis ball with him.

Just a thought, and it worked for me.


----------



## Beach girl (Aug 5, 2010)

Victoria Stillwell on "It's Me or the Dog" had an episode on a while ago with a dog that was a compulsive light-chaser. Seems the dog had been held at some point in a room with a lot of windows and mirrors and literally almost went crazy from it.

Then it was re-homed to the new owner, and the new owner could not figure out how to end the dog's obsession. And now of course I don't remember exactly how V.S. solved the problem! She said it was one of the more difficult things to solve. Maybe searching on the website for her program you could find this episode and find some good ideas. 

It's been a while since anyone has posted here. Wowbaby, I hope things are going better now for the dog and the rest of the family.


----------



## wowbaby (Jul 14, 2010)

Thank you Beach Girl, I'll check it out. We did call around and got no help at first but then a trainer recommended a phd dog and animal behaviorist, so we're going to give that a try. Lenny seems less obsessed lately, maybe due to aging and maturing, I don't know. He's doing much better now, totally stable bowels on high quality kibble in these last couple of weeks and my husband has yielded on the basis that it would unjust to revoke his permission to get a dog. While my husband will still occasionally refers to Lenny as "your dog", he clearly loves him (calls him 'son' and tells his he's a good poodle, takes him for runs and plays with him) and has taken even more responsibility with him than before, and has never again voiced a desire to "get rid of him". In retrospect I think the issue was more marital than a true issue with the dog. That's the best update I can give since only a short time has past, but I feel confident that the perceived crisis has passed, and I can tell you that everyone, including Lenny, is happy.


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

So glad to hear things have settled down happily all round (including Lenny's bowels!).


----------



## grab (Jun 1, 2010)

Not a poodle, but our male Chow had diarrhea issues for a good portion of his first year. He was very sensitive to foods, did have one bout with an overgrowth of gut bacteria (though he still had a diarrhea issue when that was resolved) and diarrhea was just a constant part of life. Thankfully, he did not have accidents inside, but we spent a lot of time washing his rear end.

Finally, we put him on a probiotic for about a month. Not sure if it was that or if he just outgrew the issue, but his stool cleared up and hasn't been an issue since


----------



## Beach girl (Aug 5, 2010)

Wowbaby, glad to hear things are going better.

I see you're in Ypsilanti. I grew up in Michigan too, opposite side of the state from you, down in the lower southwest corner. Beautiful place to live.

Know what you mean about the marital issues vs. the dog issues! Those things do come up from time to time, no doubt. Glad everything is on a better path now.


----------

