# How would you know if your puppy is show standard?



## pagan-poodle (Sep 30, 2008)

How would you know if your puppy is show standard??Just curious


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## mercymoon (Aug 29, 2008)

Good question! I find myself wondering the same thing... 

For example if I was going to purchase a new poodle puppy
(I'M NOT!!!!) what would I look for if I was wanting to
show?


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

Well you need to get a series of stack photos and compare it to the standard of perfection. 

All Poodles have the same standard as they are considered one breed save for their size. So to be of show/breeding quality you dog would have to have Poodle type.

They should be square in body, that means from the point of chest to the point of hip should be equal as the hight from withers to ground. Level topline and a good tail set, not low and not too high. 

They should have a moderate stop with a slightly rounded top skull, with ears set in line with the eyes. The muzzle should be well defined with a closed lip, flat cheeks and it should be the same in length as the skull.

There are also minute things that are looked at by judges but a well put together dog will stand out.

Normally what the puppy looks like at 8 weeks they will look like when mature so if you have a nice puppy you will more then likely have a nice dog.

So when I look at a potential show pup I want so see a nice square animal with good head shape, well set ears, not to much rear angulation, nice fore frount and chest.

To me this is a nice puppy 

If you have a dog in mind post some pictures!


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## pagan-poodle (Sep 30, 2008)

How about daisy??Shes now 9 weeks old??I will try and get a better pic


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Purple Poodle said:


> Well you need to get a series of stack photos and compare it to the standard of perfection.
> 
> All Poodles have the same standard as they are considered one breed save for their size. So to be of show/breeding quality you dog would have to have Poodle type.
> 
> ...




You will never have a perfect dog though. So if your dog has a slightly longer back but everything else is very nice..then take that. Bigest things with poodles that will tell you right away if you have a show potential is; tail set, movement, and feet. You can't hide or camouflage those things. Also an 8 weeks beautiful puppy can still fall apart later. Yes, they say what it looks like at 6 or 8 wks is what it should mature to conformation wise but that doesn't always happen. Ive seen many dogs fall apart right at that 10-11 month age that looked great at 6-8 wks. 

I have a stacked pic of my boy Mikey that I intend to show soon. Im not thrilled about his head but everything else is good so far. He is almost 11 months. Try to take a few side stacked, front, and rear stacked pics of your baby. Here is a stacked pick of my boy below... he's not perfect but he has nice qualities I like in a Poodle.


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## pagan-poodle (Sep 30, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> You will never have a perfect dog though. So if your dog has a slightly longer back but everything else is very nice..then take that. Bigest things with poodles that will tell you right away if you have a show potential is; tail set, movement, and feet. You can't hide or camouflage those things. Also an 8 weeks beautiful puppy can still fall apart later. Yes, they say what it looks like at 6 or 8 wks is what it should mature to conformation wise but that doesn't always happen. Ive seen many dogs fall apart right at that 10-11 month age that looked great at 6-8 wks.
> 
> I have a stacked pic of my boy Mikey that I intend to show soon. Im not thrilled about his head but everything else is good so far. He is almost 11 months. Try to take a few side stacked, front, and rear stacked pics of your baby. Here is a stacked pick of my boy below... he's not perfect but he has nice qualities I like in a Poodle.



I think hes beautiful 
I will try take pics tomorrow


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

SECRETO said:


> You will never have a perfect dog though. So if your dog has a slightly longer back but everything else is very nice..then take that. Bigest things with poodles that will tell you right away if you have a show potential is; tail set, movement, and feet. You can't hide or camouflage those things. Also an 8 weeks beautiful puppy can still fall apart later. Yes, they say what it looks like at 6 or 8 wks is what it should mature to conformation wise but that doesn't always happen. Ive seen many dogs fall apart right at that 10-11 month age that looked great at 6-8 wks.
> 
> I have a stacked pic of my boy Mikey that I intend to show soon. Im not thrilled about his head but everything else is good so far. He is almost 11 months. Try to take a few side stacked, front, and rear stacked pics of your baby. Here is a stacked pick of my boy below... he's not perfect but he has nice qualities I like in a Poodle.



Of coarse there is no perfect dog but you want to get as close as you can. You can never guarantee what a puppy will turn into but at 8 weeks you should have a pretty good idea. 

I agree that a few minor faults are acceptable and like you said a few that make the animal a DQ.

Yes get some standing and stack pictures of Daisy for us, as of right now I'm leaning towards not quite show worthy


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## Sivaro (Sep 19, 2008)

Actually, you can never go by a photo, some photos can make a nice dog look crappy, and an average dog look quality. Although I have had to do the same in the past but these show ppl I knew and trusted. 

A show pup really can be only sold as show potential, they can start off really nice then end up pet quality through changing all the time. You just have to hope they continue to grow as nice as they started. Im sorry guys but those pics posted of puppies laying down show you nothing about the dog only that they is cute. You need stacking shots, movement shots from front, behind and side angel. Temperament is the first thing I look for, without the temperament then its not a show dog. Then I look for attitude, if they dont have that proud attitude they sometimes dont look the part in the ring, then after that I pick the dog to pieces. 

As PP said, there is no perfect dog out there. Everydog will have a fault, you just have to find the ones with the less amount of faults. A good breeder will know what to recognise in their puppies.


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

i think Daisy is beautiful!!!


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## Blue Fox (Oct 22, 2008)

It would certainly be a good start to find a breeder you trust who is showing and breeding quality dogs. Get to know them, show them your serious and learn as much as you can. Reading the breed standard and trying to find the good and bad points on your existing dog(s) is lots of fun. I know I would never be able to pick a show puppy as I just don't have the experience, so I would have to rely on the breeder doing the right thing by me and choosing me a pup with potential. As Siv said the pup only has potential and no-one can guarantee you a winner as a baby. :smile:


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## Gigit (Oct 13, 2008)

Very interested in this as my husband wants to get a Standard later on and get into showing. 

What is a good tail set?

Finnigan has a very very high tail that is docked but a longer dock, his tail curls and comes very close to touching his back at all times. His tail doesn't hang like other dogs I've seen. It's a curly tail...

How thin should the face be for miniatures and toys? Finnigan also has a very lean long face, esp for a miniature.

What should the ears be like?


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## Blue Fox (Oct 22, 2008)

You can download or view online the UKC Breed standard from www.poodleclubofamerica.org (hope it's OK to include the link Todd)

Tail set says: Tail straight, set on high and carried up, docked of sufficient length to ensure a balanced outline. Major Fault: set low, curled or carried over the back.

It also covers ears and faces with pictures so quite interesting.


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## Blue Fox (Oct 22, 2008)

I found this on the Poodles in Australia site - not sure if this is the most up to date breed standard for Oz. 

BREED STANDARD : TAIL 
Set on rather high 1, well carried at a slight angle away from the body 2, never curled or carried over the back, thick at the root 3. 

Discussion Notes: 
1. A low set tail comes off a back (loin and croup) that is not straight and level (as illustrated in Figure A). 

2. The angle at which the tail should be carried is not specified, however it is generally accepted that a carriage just off the vertical away from the body is correct (as illustrated in Figure B). An angle greater than 45° from the horizontal could not be considered "slight". 

3. "Thick at the root" will indicate that the dog has correct bone and substance. 

4. *A Poodle with a tail that is too short or too long must not be penalised on that basis alone as it is a man-made fault. *A tail which is either too short or overly long detracts from the overall balanced appearance as we know it today and an experienced groomer will trim the hair according to the length of the tail (as illustrated in Figure C) to maintain that balanced appearance. An undocked tail must not be penalised.

I have bolded the text as this is interesting in that we can't tail dock here anymore so it is no longer a man-made fault; and I would think most dogs now carry their tails over their back in a curl as they are undocked.

This may be an outdated standard. Siv or Lelune would know if poodles are being currently penalised in the ring for the curly tail carried over the back or if this is a given now in Oz.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

I realy think the tail is one important factor for a Poodle. Now that I have Mikey, I really see the difference between my boys tails. Mikeys is thick at the base and held high and straight up. Eli's is thin and low set.... he hardly ever carries it high because its too low set. (plus his tail was docked too short) Eli's tail really takes away from him ... it sucks !! 

I really want to get movement shots of Mikey taken. This is the perfect thread to post them too as we are all judging dogs and learning. Im going to do my best to get them taken tomorrow.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

Also most breeders who show will keep a puppy until it is closer to 12-14 weeks and sometimes even 6 months or more to see how they will turn out before letting them go to potential show homes.

I think the dogs in Americas show ring have too high of a tail set and when in motion comes WAY to far over the back which is a major fault.

Its hard to tell the quality of poodle with pictures but you can get some ideas as to if they could be show worthy.

The Puppy I showed laying down is this dog, just younger.


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## Gigit (Oct 13, 2008)

I think Finn's curly tail is cute, but I had a feeling it was too curly. The breeders did tell me he was the least show quality of the bunch and his tail wasn't quite right. We didn't pick him because of showing, we picked the most laid back of the puppies.

When he walks his tail CURLS big time. It's straight only when he sleeps. But, it is pretty dang cute.

Thanks for the website, will come in handy when picking our next dog, plus it's an interesting read to know more about the breed.

His tail is not thick at the root, it's kinda thin, is this bad for his health? Or is it curly because the dock is pretty long?


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Gigit said:


> I think Finn's curly tail is cute, but I had a feeling it was too curly. The breeders did tell me he was the least show quality of the bunch and his tail wasn't quite right. We didn't pick him because of showing, we picked the most laid back of the puppies.
> 
> When he walks his tail CURLS big time. It's straight only when he sleeps. But, it is pretty dang cute.
> 
> ...



I think some Poodles just have a curled tail more then other's. Eli's tail came over his back but after we had it docked, there was no way it could. Even if the doc had left 2 more inches (like he was supposed to) you wouldn't of noticed that his tail curled over the back some. I personally think that it's more common then people want to let on. Thats for any breed that has docked tails. I don't believe it would effect the dogs health any....Ive never heard of it doing so.


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