# A second Standard Poodle



## bc1083 (Jan 21, 2016)

So I have to brag for a minute by saying I have the most well-mannered, well-behaved, smartest standard there is. I could not have asked for a better dog!

With that being said, I would like a companion for him. He is currently 18 months old. 

I'm nervous about getting a second dog because I am so spoiled by my dog's behavior. Does anyone have any comments regarding getting a second standard? If anyone does, did they see any changes in their first dog's behavior after adding to the household?


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I have toys, not standards, but I will say two things.
1) Find yourself a very good breeder who will help you make a good temperament match with your existing dog.
2) not to say that you don't have to train, but when you have a well behaved older dog, it is a bit easier to get the puppy to fall in line. The certainly do emulate the older dogs.


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

I really over thought getting a second poodle, and I'm so glad I took the plunge. We've had Dolly for 5 weeks now (Abbey was 18 months when we got her) and Abbey was a very happy girl before, but I can honestly say she has become happier and her life is fuller, more rounded. Her relationship with us has not changed one bit, and if anything she's become more eager to please and show Dolly how it's done. I thought this over a lot, weighing all the pros and cons, and it's just not that complicated. As TP pointed out, getting the right combo is important, although I do think there is some leeway there. Abbey was a good puppy, and I thought what if I get a chewer that destroys everything, or a poop eater etc., but I didn't worry about those things before we got Abbey, so why now. I say go for it, I did and I'm sooooooooooo glad I did!


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

The most important thing when adding a second dog is to make sure it gets along well with your first dog. No matter how much you love the second dog, if it doesn't get along with your first dog, your quality of life will suck. Any time you're bringing a new dog into the house, you are introducing new issues that will need to be managed, but some issues are a lot easier to manage than others - and some are so easy, you don't have to do anything out of the ordinary. As difficult as it is to return a dog, you don't want to spend the next 15 years of your life wishing you had chosen a different dog.

Yes, I speak from heart-wrenching experience. After years of hard work to understand the tension between our two dogs, and identify and eliminate triggers, we made the very difficult decision to re-home the second dog. We rejected multiple offers while waiting for the right person - but we found her. She drove 14.5 hours to meet him and after an hour he was napping on her feet as we talked. We were up front about his issues and why he wasn't working in our house, but since he's her only dog, he's been a welcome and delightful addition for her. We remain grateful to the poodle rescue who aided our search.

We miss him everyday, but we are so thankful for the peace and calm in our house. And we do get Christmas cards.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I have been lucky I am on my 8th poodle. I have never brought one home, that I could not make a compatible house hold out of for 2, 3, 4 at a time, (hopefully just picked this one up yesterday) so far working out. I keep the pecking order first come first served and it has worked out. I always praise or correct using their names. When all are included I call them girls. If I cannot take them all, then they take turns. 1 is great, 2 is nice, and 3 not is ever lonely is my motto. LOL


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## Kassie (Apr 7, 2016)

bc1083 said:


> So I have to brag for a minute by saying I have the most well-mannered, well-behaved, smartest standard there is. I could not have asked for a better dog!
> 
> With that being said, I would like a companion for him. He is currently 18 months old.
> 
> I'm nervous about getting a second dog because I am so spoiled by my dog's behavior. Does anyone have any comments regarding getting a second standard? If anyone does, did they see any changes in their first dog's behavior after adding to the household?


As a multiple owner of dogs, cats, horses, parrots (past), I have a very good understanding of animal behaviors. Nevertheless, the unexpected can happen and life that you imagined to be awesome, has become a nightmare. Ideally, what seems to work best, is to have opposite sexes (in dogs). In rotation. It doesn't always work though, but the female should stand out as the ruler. But some males, won't tolerate that even, so there can be friction.

A single male and a single female brings the best harmony. Two males will likely fight for dominance as the younger male matures, and the same with females. So, care must be taken. i am saying this from lots of experience, lots of tears. I had a male Aussie and his littermate sister. That male put that female in the clinic all of her life. I should have rehomed one, but we were so attached. In the past years, I had a lovely pair of shepherds, a male and female that never fought, not one time. He would bow down gracefully to the female and she would always get her way, but she was and still is, dignified as a ruler.

We brought in a 9-month-old male shepherd pup, when my older male was 8. That young male argued and irritated the older male on a regular basis and the older male kept an upper hand. But, when that young dog turned 2 years of age, the fighting was vicious and he was often able to get my glorious mature male down in the submissive position; which was heartbreaking. The fighting continued, over simple things, like a stick or attention. It became vicious fighting, one we could not separate once they were in combat. The family lived on pins and needles and the tension was horrible. My old male, lost faith and became humbled. We couldn't stand it, so we kept them apart, which made family outings difficult. The old male passed last September, and it brought relief of tension, but I still carry regret.

Now, I have introduced a large toy puppy (male) to the household and my daughter's papillon is male, but the papillon is more submissive. I took a chance not bringing in a female, that would have been ideal. But, I have an old female shepherd, and I may get a female standard when she passes to balance with the male shepherd.

We get educated, do our research and then make a decision. We hope it works out...and we pray...

Good luck. My favorite moments in my life, was when I would walk my male import shepherd and my female import shepherd and I could go everywhere and anywhere. They never fought with each other or with other dogs. I felt safe and so very happy. I wished they could have lived with me forever, the balance was perfect.......


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I have two standards, Lily is a soon to be 8 year old bossy girl and Javelin is a 13 month old still intact boy. I also have a 7 1/2 year old German Shepherd dog who is an intact male.

I have to agree with nearly all (if not all) of what Kassie said. I think the better combination is dogs of opposite sex. Knowing Lily as I did I would never have another bitch in the house with her. She has a very strong dislike of other black spoo girls and can generally be snarky with other girls of any breed, not abnormally so but still enough that I would imagine having to keep dogs in separate spaces if there was another female here.

Additionally I can absolutely say that getting a teenage boy and an older boy to figure out their relationship can be challenging. Javelin was a very bratty baby with Peeves. Peeves gave him latitude when he was still a baby but they have been having some issues with each other over recent weeks. Unfortunately they had a big go at each other (nobody hurt) when my mom was here. She ended up taking Javelin home to her place since I decided I didn't want her having to worry. When I brought Javelin home BF and I did a lot of work on getting them in line with each other and although there can be moments where they need to each go on a time out to settle I think we are past the figuring out social order problems for the most part.

Since all of my dogs are performance dogs I have very high expectations of them at home as well as out. I think if I had gotten my second poodle when Lily and Peeves were very young they would not have been helpers, but instead have turned back into silly teenagers. Even last year with Lily and Peeves both being 7 and very well behaved and mature, I was fully prepared to return Javelin to his breeder if it was clear that there would be life long conflicts and problems.

I understand wanting a second dog and would hope never to get to a point where I have just one, but it has to be a good match in temperament and timing so they are friendly to each other and that they enhance your life rather than making you nervous about them being together. It is a decision whose consequences will last for many years.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I am of the belief that it is all about temperament more than sex of the dogs. I have had 2-3 females for the past almost twenty years, and always had harmony. 
Right now, as her two older sisters are gone, Teaka, who was always low ranking in my pack has emerged as the clear alpha. Timi is a total "peace, love and happiness, we can all get along", kind of dog, so I have little concern with the possibility of adding a new puppy soon. Teaka can be a little rough as an alpha when I am home, so I have to watch to keep her in check when I am here, but the nice thing is that because she has pretty bad separation anxiety, when I am out, she turns into a total wuss, just following Timi around, begging her "just stay close to me". When I look at the poodle cam, I will usually see Timi laying in a bed, and Teaka laying on the floor next to her. When Timi gets up, Teaka just follows inches behind her. It is funny, sometimes Timi just walks around, and looks back at her like "why are you following me?" Even when Timi was in the crate, Teaka would lay on the floor next to the crate. And I know that another girl, no matter her temperament, isn't going to change any of their behavior.


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## scooterscout99 (Dec 3, 2015)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I am of the belief that it is all about temperament more than sex of the dogs.


I researched gender when contemplating adding a spoo. My terrier-X is quite territorial and I went with opposite sex. Several top agility competitors/teachers swear by all-male or all-female households of BCs. It was amusing to read their point and counterpoint explanations.

I really enjoy reading of others' experiences in this forum. I never know what I'll learn.


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## WinnieJane (May 6, 2016)

lily cd re said:


> I have to agree with nearly all (if not all) of what Kassie said. I think the better combination is dogs of opposite sex. Knowing Lily as I did I would never have another bitch in the house with her. She has a very strong dislike of other black spoo girls and can generally be snarky with other girls of any breed, not abnormally so but still enough that I would imagine having to keep dogs in separate spaces if there was another female here..


Is Lily spayed? Do you think spaying makes a difference in relationships among female dogs?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Lily is spayed and it was done when she was young. I don't know that it makes the same kind of difference to girls as it seems to with boys if one is intact and one is altered.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

I think all the stories above show that you can do all the research in the world, weigh all the evidence and advice, make excellent choices at every step, and still end up with a conflict. The work you put in ahead of time will minimize the likelihood of a conflict, but you never know until you get home if the dogs will get along.

The best thing you can do in advance is to learn to identify the signs that dogs are not getting along. Yes, choose carefully. But when they're finally together, observe them, and if they're telling you that it's not a good match, listen and act accordingly.

In our situation, it was evident in the very first few minutes that Mia was furious with me for bringing in this dog. She has never reacted to a dog the way she reacted to him, and the look she gave me was pure anger. Within a few days, however, they were playing comfortably at my feet in the office. I thought things were getting better. I was wrong.

In the back of mind, I never felt like I was the right owner for the second dog. Initially I was afraid to return him because I was attached to him and couldn't stand the thought of him going to a bad owner. The entire time he was with us, I wished I had chosen a different dog. I loved him madly, but I always felt like I was failing him. In time I came to feel like I was failing Mia, too.

Did you catch that? I didn't listen to her, and now I wasn't listening to me. What a terrible way to live life.

I guess you can say that in the end it worked out. Mia devours all of my attention; and the second dog is equally happy with his new owner, a wonderful woman who dug in deep to educate herself on his fear issues and showers him with love and attention.

But it came with a price. Mia, my perfect puppy, became aggressive, an issue that we can manage but will never fully resolve. Prior to this, she was my "go everywhere" dog; now she's my "I'll have to think about it" dog. It's ok, most of the time.

Mia would have loved a brother. It would have enriched her life in a way I cannot. In fact, I know exactly which dog I should have chosen. He was a rescue who I fostered briefly - but long enough to know that they were two peas in a pod. Seeing them together filled me with joy. But as a foster home, I didn't think it was right to keep him. If only I had.

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer. I'm trying to give you a realistic expectation of the potential downside, so that you can avoid my mistakes. When I think back to that time, I wish someone had done that for me. Instead, I was encouraged to keep working on it and judged for even admitting a problem existed.

After much time and many conversations, I now know that this is actually a common problem that few people admit to. The problem is so prevalent that trainers have a saying: "Management always fails." No matter how many safeguards you establish, how flexible you are with your schedule, or how much of your own happiness you are willing to sacrifice, your efforts will eventually fail.

Everyone posts beautiful photos of their multi-dog household resting peacefully side by side. I have those photos, too, but now I know that many of those photos hide painful scars of actual day-to-day life. The stigma against talking about intra-household conflict is stupid. It hurts the dogs and it hurts the humans. We'd all be better off just admitting that it happens and working to find positive outcomes for everyone involved.

If we did that, then it'd be easier to get excited about a new addition, because we'd have confidence that if there is an issue, there will also be a happy resolution.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

bc1083 said:


> So I have to brag for a minute by saying I have the most well-mannered, well-behaved, smartest standard there is. I could not have asked for a better dog!
> 
> With that being said, I would like a companion for him. He is currently 18 months old.
> 
> I'm nervous about getting a second dog because I am so spoiled by my dog's behavior. Does anyone have any comments regarding getting a second standard? If anyone does, did they see any changes in their first dog's behavior after adding to the household?


I think you are at the perfect time to add a puppy to your family. I love having 2 dogs that are not too far apart in age so that they can play together. It is really fun to watch your dogs forming their own relationships with each other.

The main thing that I would be looking for is a breeder who breeds dogs with rock-solid temperaments. You want a dog from a breeder who carefully selects for good temperaments and who has a happy well-adjusted momma dog who is raising her litter with all of the love and human support that she needs. A puppy who has had a good start in life -- good genetics and good environment -- should be able to adjust easily to life in your house with another dog. 

Hats off to Liz for her making the hard decision to rehome her dog and for taking responsible steps to find a new home. I think it is extremely unlikely that you would encounter a problem like that, but if you do, rehoming can be a great solution for all involved.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

It has been my experience: that if you got your present dog as a puppy and you trained it, then a subsequent puppy of the same breeding will behave much the same with you and your present dog as trainers.
Eric


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## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

I like to to wait until a current dog is at least 2 before getting another puppy, but this might be a great time to start a breeder search. You could also think about getting an adult dog. I had Finn, who was 5 months, and wanted another dog, but I sure wasn't going to get another puppy, so I got Asaah, who was 2 ½ at the time. Her breeder had decided not to breed her, but kept a littermate back to show/breed. I ended up with a well bred, socialized, and trained dog who was a great influence on my current puppy. An adult breeder rehome is something that not everyone thinks of (everyone wants a puppy), but it's a great option and worked out really well for me. Something to consider.


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