# How old is to old for puppy socialization?



## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

I bought Lou at 3.5 months old and we did puppy class, training, socializing with new people and dogs and she was totally cool. I can't speak for other dogs with different backgrounds and personalities. 

But I LOVED buying an older puppy!! 

So much easier to train, because she actually understood when I was training her, 8wk old puppies are too little for me, I'll never get a puppy that young, but that's just me 


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## Mrs. Shannan (Nov 18, 2012)

I probably should have said that he is a toy poodle. Thank you for your quick response. He comes from a reputable breeder and she sent me videos of him and he's beautiful, tested and very smart. I just wanted to make sure I'll be able to socialize him properly at 16 weeks old without him having difficulty.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Nah, it's never too late to socialize. Everyone has to wait until they have all their puppy inoculations anyway. At 16 1/2 weeks you'll see the puppy's basic nature better too; you can definitely shape the basic nature but if a really outgoing puppy is what you're looking for, you'll see that personality trait by then. If the puppy is shy, you'll see that too. Helps in the long run for the lifestyle you want to lead.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Technically I believe the cut off for puppy socialisation is around 12 weeks - that is the age at which pups become rather more suspicious of new things. But it is perfectly possible to accustom pups to people, dogs and other new things beyond that age, provided you take care to ensure that they have lots and lots of happy experiences. It certainly helps if the breeder ensures they have wide ranging good experience in the early weeks, though.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Here are two very good things to read.




> Socialization; What Is It Anyway?
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> From ‘The Culture Clash’ by Jean Donaldson.
> ...


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

*WHAT THE EXPERTS HAVE TO SAY*



> What the Experts Have to Say - Puppy Training and Socialization Resources - Operation Socialization
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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

continued




> Karen Pryor
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> 
> Name: Karen Pryor
> ...


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Many toy poodle breeders keep their puppies to that age, and I think it is a great age, because the basic personality traits are already formed and you know for sure what you are getting! I have gotten most of my toy poodles at this age (13 weeks was the earliest), and they were housebroken in a day or two, and so eager to learn new things and explore the world! Plus, they have had most of their shots, so you do not have to worry about taking them around other dogs!
If you like this puppy, do not hesitate!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I like getting them at 8 weeks. House training is so much easier then. They are more work, but it's okay. I do think getting a puppy at 16 weeks is okay, too. I got my whippet at 4 months old and it was fine, but he was well socialized by the breeder because she had been planning on keeping him. They are still babies at 4 months. I would find out what kind of socialization the puppy has had, but other than that it isn't a problem.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

outwest said:


> I like getting them at 8 weeks. House training is so much easier then. They are more work, but it's okay. I do think getting a puppy at 16 weeks is okay, too. I got my whippet at 4 months old and it was fine, but he was well socialized by the breeder because she had been planning on keeping him. They are still babies at 4 months. I would find out what kind of socialization the puppy has had, but other than that it isn't a problem.


The key is a good breeder - if they have done a good job taking them through the development, you have no worries - and since it is standard for a reputable toy poodle breeder to keep their puppies until 12-16 weeks, depending upon how small they are, they probably are just fine at seeing their puppies successfully through those stages!
Personally, having had so much success with the Tpoos that I have gotten at this age, I would refuse to take one any younger!


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## poodlecrazy51 (Dec 31, 2012)

To poodlebeguiled. Thank you for posting these articles. It helped me to see why we had so much trouble socializing the red puppy we had last spring and summer, The Shiloh puppy. The red puppy we have now, Jillian ( Jilly Boo) , is a totally different temperament. We can't stop grinning, and we won't stop socializing her, even with just her first set of shots.
I always read your comments. And really appreciate your experienced and knowledgeable input. I wish I had someone like you near me. I so want to do this right with this adorable new puppy. We have had spoos since 1985, and the first red puppy really threw me for a loop. 
There are no puppy classes going on between Thanksgiving and the Christmas and New years seasons. So I hope 
Mrs Shannon will find a good way to socialize this 16 week old puppy. And I agree with all the advice given so far. Also, according to Wendy Volhard herself, it is never too late to do parts of her aptitude test that is usually done at 49 days old. It is a very useful tool for a 16 wk old pup or an adult you are rescuing. This could give her some more information into what this puppy's nature is at this point in its development.


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## Joelly (May 8, 2012)

I'm a firm believer of practice makes perfect. So it's never too late to get them socialized but first you need to bond with your dog, that must come first before socialization.

I'd threw a puppy warming up party if I were you. Have fun!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I disagree with all due respect that it's never too late to socialize for the very reasons explained in those articles. All animals have a critical period which is finite. Socialization should continue forever, maybe not as intensely though. So, in that way, yeah, it's never too late to keep adding to the experiences that have a positive association.

With a starved early socialization period, improvements can be made along the way and some breeds and individuals vary. But basically, if you've ever seen an adult dog that had an impoverished early critical socialization period (birth to 12 - 16 weeks) it is extremely difficult to make much headway. 

That said, if the breeder socialized the puppy until you get him at 16 weeks, great. But a lot of breeders are very busy, have lots of dogs and they may do the bare minimum. They may go to the vet's, see kids and adults, see a few different places. But there is so much more to be covered. Poodles are an easier breed to socialize than say a Doberman. So, I'm sure there's a tad more leeway there. 

Personally, I prefer to get a puppy at 8-10 weeks so I can have time to introduce him to all the things I think, in my lifestyle we'll come across, at least most of those things or representations of those things. But that's just me. 

They are indeed a lot of work but this way I know for a fact where the dog has been, make sure they're all positive experiences etc. A Poodles temperament, I can see makes for an easier time in that regard, but socialization should never stop. But those first 16 weeks or so are very important to me and I like to know just what exactly my puppies are experiencing. I have pretty specific requirements. If you can see that the puppy is obviously well socialized, if you can see him around lots of different aged people, different environments, various dogs, well, the list is large, that would be good.

Anyhow, just my .02 Good luck.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

When it comes to Toy Poodle Puppies, who traditionally leave the breeder at 12-16 weeks, that part of the socialization is taken care of for you, so what you see is what you get (and I'd rather know what I was getting then wait to find out after I have the dog)! After that the owner part of the socialization, of which there is still plenty more to do begins.

PB, it sounds like you are making an assumption that all poodle breeders are keeping their puppies in a cardboard box in a closet during the "critical socialization period", and if we don't snatch them at 8 weeks and do the job it won't be done, but NOT SO - it least not with a GOOD Breeder - they know how to raise a puppy, when and what kind of things to expose it to and you will know exactly what you are getting.

Anyhow, it's a moot point, because the majority of responsible tpoo won't let their puppies go before 12-16 weeks, so the OP is not likely to have the opportunity to do it themselves as you suggest anyhow.


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## Vixen (May 31, 2011)

I think most puppies are pretty much confined to their house and yard till about that age because of vaccinations anyway, although there are a lot of ways to expose a pup to different things at home too of course. If you believe the pup is not already reactive and everything seems right, go for it. :thumbup:


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> When it comes to Toy Poodle Puppies, who traditionally leave the breeder at 12-16 weeks, that part of the socialization is taken care of for you, so what you see is what you get (and I'd rather know what I was getting then wait to find out after I have the dog)! After that the owner part of the socialization, of which there is still plenty more to do begins.
> 
> PB, it sounds like you are making an assumption that all poodle breeders are keeping their puppies in a cardboard box in a closet during the "critical socialization period", and if we don't snatch them at 8 weeks and do the job it won't be done, but NOT SO - it least not with a GOOD Breeder - they know how to raise a puppy, when and what kind of things to expose it to and you will know exactly what you are getting.
> 
> Anyhow, it's a moot point, because the majority of responsible tpoo won't let their puppies go before 12-16 weeks, so the OP is not likely to have the opportunity to do it themselves as you suggest anyhow.


I didn't make any assumptions that good breeders don't socialize their puppies. I don't know where I gave the impression I thought they kept them in a box. I know they do raise them right from day one if they're good. I have bought several purebred dogs from reputable breeders so I am not unfamiliar with how it's done. I was just explaining that I personally.... like to get them earlier than 16 weeks so I can take them where I want to take them, to make sure I cover specific things that they are exposed to that are especially important to me before that window closes. There's nothing wrong with taking a puppy of 8 weeks away from it's litter mates or mother as long as it's thriving well and has learned all it needs to from them, which obviously mine did. 

A good temperament is a must but so is ample socialization. And it could happen that a breeder doesn't have the time to take each of his puppies to Home Depot, on a walk through the woods, to a beach, in fields, on gravel, to see children from newborn to 2 yrs old, from 2 to 6 yrs, to 7 to teenage, to adult men with beards, without, with canes, with walkers, with umbrellas, on elevators, past noisy construction, by trains, to see livestock, friendly healthy adult dogs, friendly puppies, people in weird costumes, people carrying lawn chairs, big garbage bags, people in big hats. A breeder likely has a few dogs and several puppies at times and it's a lot to do. Like I said, toy Poodles may not need _as_ heavy duty socialization but dogs like Dobermans, GSDs and a lot of other breeds definitely need a lot. So it's personal preference. I like to get them started early on the things that are tailored to my life style. I already know they have good temperaments. That I can determine when they're 8 weeks old. I've been involved with dogs for a long, long time.

I spoke with several very reputable breeders of toys and the average let them go at 10 weeks, give or take. I didn't find one that insisted on keeping them till 16 weeks. Same when I got my Chihuahuas. They're really tiny. My breeder is highly regarded by many and he let me take his at 8 weeks because they were robust and healthy, well adjusted and came from very lovely parents. Maybe too, on account of his trusting me to be the careful person I am with puppies. So, if you're thinking my breeder sucks because he gave them to me at 8 weeks, well, that's pretty unbelievable. 

And as far as keeping them under lock and key until they're 16 weeks or until they've had all their vaccines, not for me. I wait until they've had 2 sets. It's more risky to under socialize a pup than getting a disease. That's been addressed, studied and documented. Reasonable precautions...yes. I don't take them where a lot of unknown dogs are....no parks, pet stores, rest stops (I never take any dogs to rest stops) But everywhere else I can think of, they go and see. 

So anyone can do anything they like. I simply was giving my opinion.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

PB, the fact is that most reputable tpoo breeders keep them until12-16 weeks.
If you established a relationship with your breeder where he was comfortable with you taking them early, and you were comfortable with taking that risk, that's fine, but in general, a Tpoo breeder who usually lets their puppies go at 8 weeks would indeed be a major red flag.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

But it is true that the only case where a breeder might INSIST upon keeping them until 16 weeks is if they are extra tiny, but sometimes breeders who are really firm about making the correct match have them even longer - I've known several people, including my sister in-law who got ones from my breeder that were 6-7 months old, and they were wonderful, well-adjusted dogs.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I got my Molly at 16 weeks and because she was raised/socialized in a family with lots of love, people/kids/noise, etc., she came to live with me with practically no behavioral issues at all! She is probably one of the sweetest, most laid back puppies I have ever owned.
Early socialization IS important, so look at the breeders environment that was provided for the pup and if possible meet at least the Dam, and see what her personality is like too! 
Then continue to socialize your new pup to everything also! Safely of course!


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