# Crap! Sick Hen. ????



## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I am so sorry! I know what it is like to have a sick bird and not to be able to do much more than give them antibiotics and heat...............birds are hard to DX for sure! 
Hope she pulls through!

PS.... With my parrots I used Baytril (IM) or 10% liquid (1ml per quart of drinking water if I had a suspect aviary outbreak)
Don't know what you can use on Chickens tho?????


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

That's the thing though, I don't think antibiotics would do much for her at this point. I'm thinking it is not a bacteria or virus causing the issues, I'm thinking it something internally wrong with her like a mutation or deformity inside. She shows no symptoms of a cold or sickness, good poop, no congestion, no mucus, breath smells fine, eats well, vent looks great, to young for egg production so there is no egg in her oviduct (I checked just incase). I love Baytril too it is a very good antibiotic, but at this point unless I get a definitive DX I thinks it's better to hold off on the antibiotics. I'm wondering if it might be neurologic because she is not walking well if at all and is very unsteady on her feet. I should probably check her heart rate and respiration, and see if I can get a blood sample to take to work. I wonder if we can do a GHP on chickens? I guess I will see in an hour. ?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Oh that stinks. I hope you can get her through it, but certainly do wonder if there is a genetic problem at the hatchery that they haven't tracked down if it really isn't something infectious. All my birds are doing well although I am a little worried that Rebekkah might really be a Ralph (I will try to get some good pics over the weekend for you all to see.).


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## jenniferandtonks (Nov 17, 2014)

good luck. hope it's an isolated incident. it's possible that what's going on is related to the hatchery breeding their lines a little too tight. the one we lost a lavender orp. that way. she started with an abnormal gait but everything else seeming normal at first but went downhill. nothing showed up in her pathology- still glad we got it done, even though the more extensive tests cost nearly $100, it was good to know we didn't have one of the diseases that could be a public health concern. it wasn't until nearly a year later when i had joined the facebook groups that i found out the breeder we got them from tends to breed a little too tight and most who have been around know to expect that there will be some who fail to thrive. we've had dominiques live 5 - 7 years. hope you're able to find a way to have doms with normal lifespan.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

Could you be dealing with Classical Marek's ? Is your hen in the 12 to 30 week age range?


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Thanks for all the support everyone. Lilly CD I sure hope Rebekkah isn't a Ralph, that would mean you would have to get rid of him wouldn't you? ?



Charmed said:


> Could you be dealing with Classical Marek's ? Is your hen in the 12 to 30 week age range?



Yes! I am very worried about that! She is in the age range and unfortunately I did not have this brood vaccinated for it for some reason. I am looking for a lab that will test for it. Looks like UC Davis has an Avian lab in San Bernardino which is not to far from me. I will call them up and see if and how they test for Marek's. If she does test positive for it I don't know what I would do about my flock. Especially because we have another shipment of meat chicks coming in January ?. If it is though I would think I'd see more chickens with similar symptoms which at this point I do not.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Good to know tho... that if all else fails... you can rely on -

Pushkin's Dead Bird Removal
Isle of Man
UK


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

I had one hen that developed Marek's. She could only walk by using her wing and one leg...almost culled her, but she was laying and quite content, so we let her live. We kept her in a ten by ten foot coop with a layer of soft wood shavings a foot thick. She was with the same hens she was raised with and no one picked on her. She lived happily for about three more years and then overnight her lungs became affected and we had to let her go. Our situation was different than yours as we were not bringing in new birds, and had no other flocks near us. Interestingly enough, none of the other hens developed any signs of Mareks and none of them had been vaccinated. They all lived about six years and died of "normal" hen disorders. Go figure.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> That's the thing though, I don't think antibiotics would do much for her at this point. I'm thinking it is not a bacteria or virus causing the issues, I'm thinking it something internally wrong with her like a mutation or deformity inside. She shows no symptoms of a cold or sickness, good poop, no congestion, no mucus, breath smells fine, eats well, vent looks great, to young for egg production so there is no egg in her oviduct (I checked just incase). I love Baytril too it is a very good antibiotic, but at this point unless I get a definitive DX I thinks it's better to hold off on the antibiotics. I'm wondering if it might be neurologic because she is not walking well if at all and is very unsteady on her feet. I should probably check her heart rate and respiration, and see if I can get a blood sample to take to work. I wonder if we can do a GHP on chickens? I guess I will see in an hour. ?


If you do a blood draw, make sure you take it from the wing and not the nails.. a hemocrit from the nail is just not as clean as blood draw from a wing. IMO! Neurologic symtoms CAN be from bacteria (like wry neck can be attributed to some bacterial/viral/fungal infections)too! I say take a blood draw! It doesn't hurt to make a few slides and take a look either!


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Charmed said:


> I had one hen that developed Marek's. She could only walk by using her wing and one leg...almost culled her, but she was laying and quite content, so we let her live. We kept her in a ten by ten foot coop with a layer of soft wood shavings a foot thick. She was with the same hens she was raised with and no one picked on her. She lived happily for about three more years and then overnight her lungs became affected and we had to let her go. Our situation was different than yours as we were not bringing in new birds, and had no other flocks near us. Interestingly enough, none of the other hens developed any signs of Mareks and none of them had been vaccinated. They all lived about six years and died of "normal" hen disorders. Go figure.



Huh! that is very interesting! I'm surprised none of the other hens contracted it. Maybe they just had the immunity needed to fight it off. Interestingly the vaccine doesn't keep them from getting Marek's it just helps them develop the antibodies needed to fight it off if/when they come into contact with it. It spreads so easily (through dander) that usually all chickens will come into contact with it if it's in the area. I just can't find if it is common in our area, I know it is in the Pacific Northwest which is above us.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

MollyMuiMa said:


> If you do a blood draw, make sure you take it from the wing and not the nails.. a hemocrit from the nail is just not as clean as blood draw from a wing. IMO! Neurologic symtoms CAN be from bacteria (like wry neck can be attributed to some bacterial/viral/fungal infections)too! I say take a blood draw! It doesn't hurt to make a few slides and take a look either!



Yes, that is where I took it from. She had a very nice wing vein which made it very quick and easy, thank goodness! Good point about bacteria causing neurologic symptoms as well. She just acted so similar to the ones a few years ago I was sure it was the same thing. 

She has actually perked up quite a bit tonight! At first when I got home from work she was the same as this morning, but an hour ago she actually stood up! Even her tail was up! Not high but at least not tucked under her like before. She ate a bit and drank some water then sat back down. I gave her an apple and she loved that! It seems to have given a bit of energy so she is eating a lot more. She finished all the cottage cheese and is digging into her feed now. So maybe things are looking up for her? I guess we will see.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> Thanks for all the support everyone. Lilly CD I sure hope Rebekkah isn't a Ralph, that would mean you would have to get rid of him wouldn't you? &#55357;&#56866;
> 
> Yes poodlecrazy I would have to find a place to send "Ralph." There are a couple of poultry farms near me and also a nursery yard where the owner has chickens. I would hope to be able to find a home at one of those places so I could visit. I scooped her up the other day when they were out. She was so nice and relaxed. I wanted to check to see if there was any sign of growing spurs, so still hoping since I didn't feel or see anything other than the slightest bump that they all have.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> poodlecrazy#1 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for all the support everyone. Lilly CD I sure hope Rebekkah isn't a Ralph, that would mean you would have to get rid of him wouldn't you? &#55357;&#56866;
> ...


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

It is the cape and tail feathers that have me worried. I will gets pics up over the weekend.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Poodlecrazy........did she survive????


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

MollyMuiMa said:


> Poodlecrazy........did she survive????



Awww, thanks for asking, that is so sweet and considerate. Unfortunately she did not survive. I had to help her pass on on Thursday. I did in fact DX her though. She had an impacted crop. We tried everything except surgery to get things moving through and I thought she was going to make it at first but she got impacted again. All the fiber from the long greens she had eaten and actually digested caused and impaction in her ceca as well. I'm pretty sure even if she had gotten past it this time she would have been chronic and always have impaction problems. 

This is her crop and all the stuff that was blocking it. Yes there is even an aspen shaving in it.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

WOW! That really looks awful! We used to have baby parrots that were still handfeeding occasionally get impacted crops, but it was usually easy to flush them as warm water would usually soften the handfeeding formula. That looks like a pretty solid mass!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Oh dear I was also wondering about her. That is a mess and a good reminder not to let them eat long stringy things and stuff that isn't readily digested. We have had some issues there, but I am working at pulling out the wild onions from the end of the yard they frequent and knocking them down with the weed whacker. Aside from the impaction problems I doubt eating onions is going to give tasty eggs.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

Sorry about the Dom hen. It has been my experience that once they start having impacted crops, it is a chronic issue. Never seemed to matter if we kept the "troubled ones" off grass or not, poor things. Do you know if Lily's feathered sibling turned out to be a rooster? We ended up with one, but were fortunate because the law changed after our rooster was already here... so, he is "grandfathered."


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Charmed, Reb is a roo! Look at this http://www.poodleforum.com/8-other-animals/132498-chickens-four-months-old-last-week.html


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> Oh dear I was also wondering about her. That is a mess and a good reminder not to let them eat long stringy things and stuff that isn't readily digested. We have had some issues there, but I am working at pulling out the wild onions from the end of the yard they frequent and knocking them down with the weed whacker. Aside from the impaction problems I doubt eating onions is going to give tasty eggs.



It's so weird, lately they have been kicking all the hay out of their nest boxes so they have nothing to lay their eggs on.Of course once it's on the ground it's a free-for-all and everybody starts eating it. Unfortunately with this little one she didn't have the ability to digest it like the others I guess. 

Charmed, you're right it seems to be a consistent thing once they do get it. I think in most chronic cases it's the pH in the digestive tract that causes it. They don't have the correct pH needed to digest properly. And Like Lilly cd said her little girl did in fact turn out to be a little boy ?. Hopefully he will be a quite little boy though. He sure is gorgeous!


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