# Health Issues with Teeth (9 yr old spoo)



## ArcadiaX (Sep 17, 2012)

While clipping my spoo's face today I noticed 2 issues: 1. He has a reddish swelling on his gums that extends half way down over an upper molar. :afraid: It appears to be inflamed gum tissue. 2. There is a small reddish lump under his eye on the same side. I am taking him to the vet asap (it's Sunday, the vet is closed), but is it possible that they are related? Any thoughts? Also, I should mention that a good daily tooth brushing is about to commence. Right after the swollen gum recedes, of course. I am a very bad spoo mommy to let this happen :Cry:


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

yes, they can be related. A vet visit is what is needed. He most likely has gum disease. He may need some teeth pulled. Once you get him well again and take better care of his teeth, he should be fine.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Yup! Sounds like an infection....It happened to my cairn & she had to have a molar removed.....Glad to hear you're going to the Vet ASAP! Teeth can cause many problems for dogs so taking care of them becomes important.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Because of the eye involvement, it sounds like an infection to me too. The vet will probably prescribe some antibiotics but maybe the tooth will be fine after, if there is no abscess. Sometimes you can tell an abscess if there are bubbles around the inflamed tissue.


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## ArcadiaX (Sep 17, 2012)

Here is a picture (by cruddy phone). I don't see any bubbles, so I have my fingers crossed. I'd hate to have his molar removed, he probably needs it to eat...  It just looks so painful, although it hasn't stopped him from eating anything yet.


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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

No he could still eat just fine without it. My Lila ate for 8 years with nary a tooth in her mouth. Well technically she had fangs but they weren't very useful for eating. Good luck though, poodles big and small seem to have bad teeth. 


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## ArcadiaX (Sep 17, 2012)

We went to the vet. He determined it was an Epulis (fancy way of saying mouth tumor) and a tumor under the eye. He prescribed a Dental Cleaning ($277.00), with the removal of said Epulis and the under eye tumor ($155.00) while under anesthesia. Lou will require a full blood works panel done ($98.00), and they want to send the tumors out for a Histopathology (a "what is it" type test for $149.50). Plus, they would throw in a nail clipping for free, YIPPEE... For a mere total estimate of $784.00. Sigh... The vet said that the Epulis isn't related to gum disease, and is related to the eye lump. Possibly. He also strongly recommended CET Oral Hygiene Rinse, also included in the estimate for $26.50. I am thinking about forgoing the Histopathology ($150.00) and the CET OHR (a better price is available on Amazon anyway, around $17.00). I think that brings it down to $610.00. Oh, the vet also said that feeding Lou about 1/4 of a chicken liver a day would take care of any tear staining. It's the iron, I guess. DH wants a second opinion, but I am pretty sure it won't get any less expensive. And Lou NEEDS this done. So, I will just suck it up and do some overtime I guess... I love the big galut. He is such a very good spoo boy, and he deserves the best I can afford to give him.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

Thanks for the update! I was thinking about you guys.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Sorry for the Dx but so glad you're on top of it! Take care of your Baby & keep us updated! :~)


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Let us know how Lou gets along.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Good luck! Poor baby! Might I suggest that you go with the test to make sure its not cancerous. I knew someone who's cocker had lumps on his face too, and it did turn out to be cancerous. I hope not but at least you will know for sure. Good luck either way.. A second opinion never hurts


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## Poodlemama99 (Feb 12, 2010)

I hesitate getting new glasses but just spent $230 for 3 months of heartworm/ flea protection without batting an eye. Lol. The things we do and spend for love of poodles. I justify it by saying that the enjoyment and stress reduction they provide me every day is much cheaper than a vacation would be. And I get the joy every day and not just a few days a year. 


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## ArcadiaX (Sep 17, 2012)

Thank you all. I will update on Lou's progress. Pretty sure I will be scheduling his procedure for this Wednesday, or next Monday. It seems like a pretty straight forward process, but he is 9 yrs old. Of course, I will worry like a momma will do... lol


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## flyingpoodle (Feb 5, 2012)

Did you talk to the vet about skipping the test? Will it affect the way you treat the dog if it is cancerous or not? Why not skip the cleaning and find out if the dog will be around a few more years to enjoy the benefits of clean teeth? 

Did the vet say it was likely to be benign or malignant? I guess that would answer my above questions.

Keep us updated!


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## ArcadiaX (Sep 17, 2012)

Surgery is all set up: the official date is on Mon the 12th. The vet said that he was alright with skipping the Histopathology test. We will just have to keep an eye on things. Poor Lou, he is getting a tad irritable/cranky and is reacting to the other pups in the house when they get too near. The 19 yr old Chow mix Cleo walks continuously and doesn't much pay attention to where he goes, even when he walks over the other pups. Lou is getting a bit testy about being stepped on... :hmmmm2: Thinking a barrier might be called for as Lou weighs in at a healthy 72ish lbs and Cleo a diminished 40ish lbs, not a fair tussle. :fear:


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

Got my fingers crossed for the surgery to go well and for poor Lou to feel more comfortable. I'm sure the 12th can't come soon enough! Thinking of you and wishing Lou well.:clover: (Just between us, it's been mentioned I can be a grumpy bitch when I don't feel well, so I have nothing but empathy for Lou being a bit grouchy.):becky:


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

*ArcadiaX: *I'm sure you've researched this to a fairthewell, but it was new to me so I took at look at the Merck Veterinary Manual. It sounds like you did a_ really good _thing to spot it so quickly, and to arrange for the surgery. I thought it might be of benefit to others to share what the Merck manual had to say, hope that's alright with you. It's been my experience we can help, save or spare someone else a good deal of anquish by sharing this sort of info. So glad the prognosis is so very encouraging. I continue to wish Lou the best!
* 
Excerpted from the Merck Veterinary Manual:* 
"Epulides 
Epulides are firm masses involving the gingival tissue and are the most common benign oral tumors in dogs (see also Gingival Fibroma and Epulides). Cats less commonly have benign oral tumors. These tumors may be seen in dogs of any age but generally are found in those >6 yr old. The 3 histologic types of epulides were previously classified as fibromatous epulis, ossifying epulis, and acanthomatous epulis. This classification was based on their clinical appearance and behavior. Fibromatous and ossifying epulides are now considered to be peripheral odontogenic fibromas. The ossifying form is a fibromatous mass that has developed centers of ossification. They are generally solitary, although multiple lesions may be present. The tumors are noninvasive, but may become quite extensive. They arise from the periodontal ligament of the subjacent tooth, and complete surgical removal must include tissues up to and including the periodontal ligament. This often necessitates en bloc removal of the affected tooth or teeth. Complete excision is curative.
graphs 

Acanthomatous epulis is now called canine peripheral ameloblastoma or canine acanthomatous ameloblastoma. These routinely aggressively invade local tissues including bone. They generally do not metastasize, but due to their locally aggressive nature surgical excision must include a full 1-cm margin of clinically normal tissue (again including bone) to prevent recurrence. Radiation treatment may minimize disfigurement when treating large tumors. Adequate surgical removal is curative. 
Due to the varied behavior of gingival growths, they should always be biopsied before surgery."


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## ArcadiaX (Sep 17, 2012)

Chagall's mom said:


> Got my fingers crossed for the surgery to go well and for poor Lou to feel more comfortable. I'm sure the 12th can't come soon enough! Thinking of you and wishing Lou well.:clover: (Just between us, it's been mentioned I can be a grumpy bitch when I don't feel well, so I have nothing but empathy for Lou being a bit grouchy.):becky:


Thank you very much for thinking of us, and the Merck info. :cute: I completely feel for the being cranky thing! After consideration of all available info and suggestions, I am now wavering towards the Histopathology test. I don't want to cheat with Lou's health in the balance. I lost my most treasured gurlie Ursa about this time last year to insidious cancer that cost about $3000.00 when all was said and done. Lou is just a super terrific spoo boy :angel: who deserves the best. He will be having a bit of steak tonight before 10:00 pm, last meal before surgery type of thing. My DH says he will be fine, but I still have worries in the back of my mind. 

Again, Thank You to Everyone for the sweet thoughts and well wishes. I will be reporting back tomorrow night on the success of the surgery.


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## ArcadiaX (Sep 17, 2012)

*Lou's Sad Now, But Wait 'til the Steak Tonight...*


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Poor Lou, I hope the steak cheers him up. I hope surgery goes well and he is soon on the mend. I am sure you will be waiting on his every wish.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Sending some postive thoughts your way. I hope everything goes well.


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## ArcadiaX (Sep 17, 2012)

Well, PHEW! Everything went swimmingly!!! :bounce: Teeth are beautiful, tumor was removed completely from both the tooth (NO extractions! YEA!) and under the eye (stitches, yuck), and the lip warty thing was removed, too. They did a great job on those toe nails! Lou was in wonderful, HIGH spirits when we picked him up this evening! It was a totally different spoo boy that came home then went in this morning. He isn't suffering from any after affects from the anesthesia, he happily ate the special Science Diet dental soft food and softened kibble (3-4 days of that), he took his antibiotic (Clavamox-12 days), pain meds (Carprofen-2-3 days) start tomorrow morning, and he just seems to be his old awesome self again. Pretty sure that any infection and pain he felt had him down. The vet had said that he was completely ok with skipping the Histopathology, and because I am now having issues with another pup, I had to keep the expense down. BUT, he will be checked regularly!!! I am so relieved that he is home safe, healthy, and looking good! And I am so very tired, as is Lou. We both say Thank You for all the support and help. PF and it's members rock!!! :adore:

ps: Lou had a nice steak last night before the food cut off and then sacked out. 100% positive he thinks THAT should happen more often!


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

:cheers2:Yay!!!! So glad for the good outcome for Lou, I'm sure you're relieved! Take care & give him lots of hugs!!!:cheers2:


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

That is fantastic! I think you should plan another steak night for yourself and Lou to celebrate the good news and to speed his recovery.


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

*ArcadiaX*: So glad the things went so well for Lou, and your vet was able to spare the tooth.:thumb: Although the Tooth Fair won't be paying Lou a visit, I know you'll be showering him with special treatment. I can only imagine how much more comfortable he must already be feeling--what a nice boy he is to withstand the pain and procedure so well! I wish him a speedy recovery, and share your relief things worked as they did. Good to hear your vet will be keeping a close eye on Lou going forward. Rest up, both of you!!


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