# Parti Color Offspring



## HeritageHills (Sep 4, 2017)

PrettyPartis said:


> I've been reading a lot about the various colors and what you get when breeding one color to another, etc.
> 
> It's almost impossible though to find any info on what you'd get when breeding different color parti's though. Would the offspring be similar to what you'd get if you were breeding solid colors?
> 
> ...


Fortunately piebald has nothing to do with how colors interact so it is not too complicated. S is solid, Sp is piebald/Parti. It is recessive so a dog must have two copies to show it but could carry it and still be solid though usually with "mismarks" as in small white spots. It basically just blocks the color from showing up in random patches. In your example all puppies from all breedings would be Parti colored. Unfortunately because of how the genetics work you couldn't even speculate on the color of the first two without knowing at least the grandparents' colors. The third I would say that you would *probably* get some blacks, but even that isn't certain because red hides black and brown. There are some really in depth conversations on here to help you understand. Basically B/b are black and brown, E/e is what decides red. Ee or EE allows black/brown to be seen while ee allows Cream/Apricot/Red to be seen. The dominant color is always capitalized and the recessive needs two copies to show. Then you have to consider the greying gene which is dominant and turns black into blue or silver and brown into Café Au Lait or Silver Beige. It's so much fun though. Enjoy your research  .


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## PrettyPartis (Sep 5, 2017)

Thank you for the info HeritageHills. I've read quite a bit and understand (as well as a beginner can at this point) most of what you mentioned. 

I also understand that if you breed a parti to a parti that you should get all parti's.

An example of what I'm asking though would be this.....

If I'm understanding things right when it comes to solid colors.....you will not get a "solid red" if you breed a "solid red" to a "solid black". It is genetically impossible......NOW with that being said I DO UNDERSTAND that it also depends on what is in the breeding pairs background. For instance if there is Red in the Blacks background then it might be possible that you'd get a Red.

So my question would be. Does the same rules apply to a Red/White Parti being bred to a Black/White Parti? Would you NEVER get a Red/White Parti from this breeding? Unless there was possibly a Red or Red/White Parti in the background of the Black/White Parti?


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## HeritageHills (Sep 4, 2017)

PrettyPartis said:


> Thank you for the info HeritageHills. I've read quite a bit and understand (as well as a beginner can at this point) most of what you mentioned.
> 
> I also understand that if you breed a parti to a parti that you should get all parti's.
> 
> ...


Yes, color interactions remain the same. I wouldn't say never. Unless you knew all of the litter mates of your dogs ancestors you're still getting a very limited look at the genetics in the background. Maybe there were red litter mates but your line was bred for black/brown so they weren't kept. Recessive genes are very sneaky sometimes. Also consider that creams are frequently mistaken for whites just like blue and Café Au Lait are easily mistaken for Black and Brown at registering age. So even a "white" could pass on the 'e'. Cream, Apricot, and Red are genetically the same just with different modifying genes I believe. If it were a good breeding match and you wanted to KNOW which 'E' genes your dog carried then breed it to a Red a couple times (if you don't get a Red the first time that is). That would be the surest way to find out, other than a test. A test would be the best way to go if it really matters to you.


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## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

What do you mean when you say "Solid"?

it's totally possible to breed a red dog to a black dog and get red puppies. you could also possibly get brown, sable, or phantom from them. It all depends on what specific genes each dog is carrying. 

DNA tests are very reliable and can tell you what the genotype of your dog is without you having to 'test them out' by breeding trial litters. There are too many dogs in the United States now to add more without an ethical purpose.


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## PrettyPartis (Sep 5, 2017)

Coldbrew said:


> What do you mean when you say "Solid"?
> 
> it's totally possible to breed a red dog to a black dog and get red puppies. you could also possibly get brown, sable, or phantom from them. It all depends on what specific genes each dog is carrying.
> 
> DNA tests are very reliable and can tell you what the genotype of your dog is without you having to 'test them out' by breeding trial litters. There are too many dogs in the United States now to add more without an ethical purpose.


When I said "solid" I meant that it has the appearance of being a solid colored dog, as in no other colors visibly showing.

I am very aware that you can get many other colors depending on the genes that a dog is carrying. 

My only point in the original post is trying to understand how the genes in a parti colored dog interacts with the genes in another parti colored dog. Trying to understand if it "intereacts" in the exact same manner as if it was not a parti colored dog.


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## blueroan (Dec 28, 2015)

Exactly! Even so, the probablity factors are just that..."probably"....

So for example you have a 80% chance of getting a parti or whatever colour you're going for...still a 20% that you're not going to get that. And multiply that by every pup. So it throws interesting things into the mix. 

Case in point: Honey's breeder has mostly reds, a few phantoms and sables. Rarely a black poodle. Often times when she breeds one of her phantom females, the pups take on the colour of the dad (usually red) with the odd one being a different colour. So often 6 pups: 5 red and one black/phantom/sable. Last litter was a little unusual. She had 5 pups: 1 red and 4 blacks!! lol!! 

Just a little interesting fact thrown in there while you're thinking about genes


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## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

The piebald (parti) gene essentially goes "on top" of the color that the dog is. It doesn't affect the inheritance of the base coat color in any way. 

I was confused by your example; sorry about that! In your first reply, the rule you gave (of red+black never making red) is not a rule at all. it can absolutely happen. a red parti + a black parti can also result in a red parti. a visibly solid red + a visibly solid black could also result in a red parti, since totally solid dogs can be parti carriers.


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