# advice newborn standards



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Well, given the situation, you seem to be doing everything you can to have covered most everything. I just wanted to say kudos to you for making the best of a not so great situation.

What tests are you planning on doing? You will only be able to have a prelim done of the hips of the younger parent. And you will have to Google what the recommended wait period is after giving birth to do the Mom's. The hormones make their results wonky. I would definitely so hips, eyes, vWd and DM. Both the vWd and DM are DNA swabs, cheap and will let you know if there is a chance any of these pups will develop either of these ailments.

If you have any specific questions...fire away. Keep up the good work and best of luck!


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Did you get their tails/dews taken care of? You seem to be taking of it well. I know with women if they're not producing enough milk they can drink some dark beer for the yeast, and I know some people that give dark beer to their dogs as a heartworm preventative, maybe try that? (small amounts)


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## Maddysmama (Apr 14, 2010)

*testing*

Thank you for your reply, the vet suggested we wait at least eight weeks and he spay her.
We discussed testing for the same things that you would if you were a responsible breeder. Especially since I know nothing of Abby's history. I am using the list that I have found on several breeder websites..

hip dysplasia, elbows, sebaceous adenitis thyroid, eyes, vwd...

I am hoping to keep pups local and will be offering free obedience so I can help and keep my eye on them.. unless they go to poodle people that I know.

The up side is that given the temperment of the parents , the pups should have amazing personalities. Jacob's Davey Crockett is in training to be an in home therapy companion for him., and Abby is a breeder rescue from somewhere in Colorado, and she is a miss smartie pants and a cuddle bug...sassy but sweet...

Just haven't decided what to ask for them.. I really do want to cover all my expenses of which there is plenty already.. Abby got sick two days after whelping and is on probiotics and antibiotics, x-rays, several vet visits etc... any suggestions on price would be great as well...


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Congrats on the puppies and kudos to you for stepping up to the plate. I know I could never be a breeder, it's too hard! I think it's especially wonderful that you are going to the trouble and expense of testing the parents after the fact just to have the information at hand. That is above and beyond for an oops litter in my opinion and very responsible.

When the pups are old enough do you have a plan for socialization, getting them used to grooming, etc.?


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## Maddysmama (Apr 14, 2010)

*fluffyspoo*

Thanks, I am adding milk replacer to her puppy food that i have her on.

As far as taking it well. I am raising two grandkids with brittle bones and dwarfism and one that we adopted from Russia with brittle bones, ricketts, dwarfism, schizophrenia, , brain damage from abuse, and my family dis owned me over taking my daughter to court and for adopting Anna, so very little shakes me..

It did irk me that I had to change holiday travel plans, but really the only thing important now is getting through this finding amazing homes for all 7. 

I did decide that to treat myself, since Blossom belongs to Maddy as her service dog, and Davey is Jacob's and our two big rescues spend alot of there time visiting on the farm next door (they've been adopted like next door kids are by the older couple and they ask if they can come and play, they even try have them helping with the cows. 

When all this is over I am going to get myself a new puppy and if I can get up enough nerve and the kids are doing good, I might try showing it. It's getting time to do something just for me...

hugs


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## Maddysmama (Apr 14, 2010)

*socialization*

In answer to that, they will have tons..I have 7 grandkids and alot of friends that meet us acorss the street at the park. Once safe to leave the house they will go to school, and we spoke to Jacob's cubscout pack and they are going to help with the puppies for a animal care badge. 

I groom mine, so I will start around 5 weeks, but we are getting them used to having their feet played with. I am turning on the clippers in the room daily so they wil get used to it.

I chose no to do tails and dew claws. I feel standards don't have big flappy ones and I like the full tail.

now for all the experts out there, is the weight gain sound about right? Since the dad is 38 lbs and 21at the withers and the mom is 45lbs and 23 at the withers, I thought the puppies would be smaller when born..

Thanks and hugs


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Our litter from last year weighed 380 to 440 grams at birth. (454 grams is a pound). In their first week, their weights went to 800 to 1020. I think your puppies are gaining a little on the light side, but as long as they gain some everyday and do not lose any, they should be fine. Each week they gain more than the week before, so will need more replacer at each feeding each week.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

You sound like an amazing person. What a loving gesture to your friend to take on this huge responsability.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Do you have any pictures of your puppies? I would love to see them and the parents. I imagine dogs are like people and the more they nurse, the more milk mom will have. To the breeders: Isn't it a concern to give a lot of replacer to fill the puppies up and then they don't nurse enough, so there isn't enough milk? 

I would think feeding mom a high quality, high calorie diet would be important. I always did that with my boxer puppies a long time ago.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

outwest said:


> Do you have any pictures of your puppies? I would love to see them and the parents. I imagine dogs are like people and the more they nurse, the more milk mom will have. To the breeders: Isn't it a concern to give a lot of replacer to fill the puppies up and then they don't nurse enough, so there isn't enough milk?
> 
> I would think feeding mom a high quality, high calorie diet would be important. I always did that with my boxer puppies a long time ago.


Yes. It can be an issue. It is all about supply and demand. Mom should be getting lots of extras. We feed our nursing moms hamburger, veggies and rice mixed into puppy kibble. We also give the yoghurt daily for about two weeks to get things back to normal in their gut, particularly if they have eaten afterbirths.But, some moms just do not have enough. Thankfully, I have never had this problem. 

I'd love to see pictures too!


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## Maddysmama (Apr 14, 2010)

*pictures and replacer*

Well, pictures you say...now that's funny.. how do all of you breeders get the little wigglers to hold still. I took an hour out a few nights ago, but frankly the pics look more like fecal sample smears... (sorry for being graphic)the kids got a good laugh out of it though..the parents will be somewhat easier...lol
that is if I can do it right.. I am kind of the family joke as far as uploading and downloading.. I seem to be great with fixing kids fractures and working with dogs, completely stink with computers... but I will definitely try..


Maddy fell backwards Wednesday and broke her femur right below the femoral head and is in alot of pain and can't move,and is crushed that she is missing 2 parties this weekend.She is a very sad 11 year old that is thinking that life stinks at the moment. She was trying really hard to get to a year without a fracture, but she only made it 4 months.. so I am on full time patient and puppy care.. I will certainly try to get back to it and do the pics when they have full tummies.

As far as those full tummies, I am only doing replacer after they finish nursing. I did start out trying to just let her nurse. Although the evening of her whelping she wouldn't let me try again. So I did feed them. The 7th puppy surprised her when I finally got 3 on. We weren't expecting #6 and #7, she snapped at one of the nursing pups and I covered it with my hand, she jumped up and out #7 came.. So I think at first she associated nursing with the pain of the last and biggest pup. They are coming off the teat over and over again and very unhappy and still searching. I don't see appropriate milk production and when I had the vet look at her, he said he feels she only has about half of her teats creating milk. They are draining her dry each time. I have been checking afterwards and not able to get any out. 

I did try for the last day and a half to let them just nurse, in hopes that production would increase but this morning there was very little weight gain which I am not happy about. So today I switched to goats milk. They didn't like the replacer as well and when I worked at a very large shelter, the goats milk worked well. I let them nurse as long as they wanted, then fed them the goats milk tonight and they all went to bed alot fuller.. Only 4 out of the 7 have doubled their body weight the first week. the last 3 are within 2 ounces of doubling. I am hoping to see a big increase now. 

Mom is getting lots of extras. We are feeding her a good puppy kibble soaked in milk replacer with her favorite baked chicken with rice. She is getting her favorite scrambled eggs and cheese made with cream. I am giving her doses of nutrical. She is getting cottage cheese, yogurt and ice cream, and cans of A/D from Science Diet which is packed with calories.. she is on probiotics and antibiotics. Her appetite definitely increased as soon as she got on the probiotics. 

on the upside, at least Maddy has the puppies to hold to make her feel better.. nothing like puppy therapy....

Hugs


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## Maddysmama (Apr 14, 2010)

*satin balls*

Forgot to ask, will Satin balls be too rich for her at the moment?? She's still not feeling well.. She is just not bouncing back like the vet had hoped.. she has an appointment Monday to check on her and her weight. 

thanks, Hugs


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