# My Inquiry Story.......



## PoodlePaws (May 28, 2013)

I have never seen a vet give vaccines in the leg. Mine only does between the shoulder blades. I bet it's a vaccine reaction. 


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

PoodlePaws said:


> I have never seen a vet give vaccines in the leg. Mine only does between the shoulder blades. I bet it's a vaccine reaction.
> 
> 
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That's weird, because Rabies vaccines are always supposed to be given in the right leg. Maybe it's a California thing? 


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Branna had the same issue with her 3 year rabies. With the one year rabies she got a mass the size of a golf ball on her side. I took her back and he told me to do warm compresses until it went down and if it didn't to let him know so he could contact the vaccine company and do more testing. It slowly went away,maybe two months when I couldn't feel it anymore. With her second rabies vaccine, the 3 year one, I was sure to tell them about the previous reaction and they gave her a smaller dose. She didn't get a mass but she did loose the hair in that area and not just a small area it grew and grew to where it covered her entire hip area. Finally it stopped and the hair slowly started to regrow. I also noticed at the same time she was getting these sores on her face and paws and the skin on the tips of her ears were thick and dry and cracking into the live tissue, as well as the skin on her paws which also turned a brownish yellowish color. I kept the tips shaved and put steroid cream on them and her face sores. Eventually they started getting better and she hasn't had issues since. Granted she hasn't had to have another vaccine since then, so who knows what will happen she has to get it again. The skin on her ear tips is still slightly flaky and
thick though. I know they can do it on the inside of the thigh if you don't want the alopecia to show. Alopecia is a common reaction to vaccines, it usually grows back. In rare cases it doesn't. My cousins Boxer never got her hair back. I would cry if that happened to one of my Tpoos, it's much different for a boxer to have a bald spot than a poodle, lol. Hopefully with Molly's next vaccine the reaction won't be any worse, you can always ask them to give her a little less than usual and see if that helps. 


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

Yes. One year I had all 3 of my dogs react within hours to a Ft. Dodge 3yr rabies vaccine. Swelling, shaking, drooling, just being completely out of it. They were all rushed to the emergency vet and it was hundreds of dollars later on IV drips, pain meds, benedryl. They all 3 lost hand sized areas of hair over the vaccine site and it took 2 of the 3 a year to grow the hair back.
One of the most frustrating things was that the vet who gave the vaccines swore up and down in her 20 years she's never seen a vaccine reaction and denied that is what was wrong with them, even though I had the paperwork from the e-vet to prove it. I don't have much faith in any doctor- veterinary or human. 

Does She have any bichon in her perchance or maltese? Little white dogs can be more sensitive to the vaccinations too. I had 2 bichons and a minpin at the time.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Sounds like vaccine to me. If you google Rabies Vaccine Induced Vasculitis they talk about the dogs getting a bald spot where the vaccine was administered. For some dogs they later go on to develop the vasculitis. I am NOT saying Molly will get vasculitis! Just that on those web sites is where I read about it. It does say if you switch brands of the vaccine it may help. Dr. Dodds has a specific brand she recommends. I will try to find it later, I have to take Livi to school right now. If she shows no other symptoms, at this point I wouldn't worry too much.


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## My babies (Aug 14, 2012)

My Gucci boy gets a bald spot on his thigh too after the rabies vaccine. It took months for it to grow back and I still think the hair that grew back is not the same. It seems softer and not as full.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Poodlecrazy, what you describe with Branna is what Emilio and Misha both got. We are still battling the sores on Misha's face and her ear pinna are thickened at the edges and crusty and they itch. Emilio's went away with the meds and Misha's has improved but if the meds are stopped it comes back.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

toy POODLES--Adverse Reaction to Rabies Vaccine


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I have no doubts at all it was the rabies vac, I was just wondering if it was a rare occurence and I guess it's not! I am glad I did the 3 year vac though, cuz now I hope I don't have to worry about it for another couple of years! I am sad to hear of how bad it has affected some of our poodles and other small breeds...I just wonder why it hasn't been something that the general public is informed about.........I never remember this happening while I worked at the Veteranarian Clinic! (more than 25 years ago!)
Meanwhile, her groomer does her best to camouflage them!
I am really hoping the little bald spots will be the ONLY effect!


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> Poodlecrazy, what you describe with Branna is what Emilio and Misha both got. We are still battling the sores on Misha's face and her ear pinna are thickened at the edges and crusty and they itch. Emilio's went away with the meds and Misha's has improved but if the meds are stopped it comes back.



Ya, thankfully most all Branna's symptoms went away after a while. She still has discolored and slightly thickened skin on her feet and ear tips. When I took her back he did a skin scraping on the alopecia to rule out anything else and then told me she has Rabies Vaccine induced Ischemic Dermatopathy. Poor Misha, I hope she gets better soon, I remember how bad Branna felt. The poor thing was always so itchy and the sores looked so painful. 


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> toy POODLES--Adverse Reaction to Rabies Vaccine



Very interesting. Thank you 


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Shamrockmommy said:


> Yes. One year I had all 3 of my dogs react within hours to a Ft. Dodge 3yr rabies vaccine. Swelling, shaking, drooling, just being completely out of it. They were all rushed to the emergency vet and it was hundreds of dollars later on IV drips, pain meds, benedryl. They all 3 lost hand sized areas of hair over the vaccine site and it took 2 of the 3 a year to grow the hair back.
> One of the most frustrating things was that the vet who gave the vaccines swore up and down in her 20 years she's never seen a vaccine reaction and denied that is what was wrong with them, even though I had the paperwork from the e-vet to prove it. I don't have much faith in any doctor- veterinary or human.
> 
> Does She have any bichon in her perchance or maltese? Little white dogs can be more sensitive to the vaccinations too. I had 2 bichons and a minpin at the time.



Molly's was the Fort Dodge vaccine also!
No, she had no maltese or bichon in her DNA..............


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

My new vet said in his career he has only seen it twice, other than my dogs, and he is floored that I got TWO with it! LOL, I would.


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## MrsD2008 (May 26, 2014)

Oh I am so glad we live in the UK. No rabies her, as far as I am aware. So we don't inject against it, unless your plan on taking your dog abroad. God bless, sounds like a heck of an ordeal for the poor dogs. Surely a vaccine isn't supposed to cause harm, just activate the immune system against an antigen. This would be worrying to me


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## Yelemay (Jul 25, 2013)

*Rabies Vaccine-Induced Alopecia*

One of my mini poodle pups developed a quarter size bald spot where he was injected with the rabies vaccine. It developed about 2 months after being vacinated. The vet said no way! So she tested for demodic mites (mange), which turned out negative. Then she said it must be ringworm so she prescribed meds for that, and in the meantime started a culture because I wanted to be sure. The meds did sooth the bald patch, and it did not spread; however, the ringworm culture was also negative. I tried to tell the vet that it was a reaction to the rabies shot, but she refused to believe me, and said that since the bald spot didn't show up for 2 months, it could not possibly have been a reaction. Okay...from everything I've read about rabies vaccine-induced alopecia, it takes anywhere from 1 - 4 months to develop. So, that gives me no confidence is this vet's knowledge about possible vaccine reactions. And, even though the ringworm culture came back as negative, she still insisted it was ringworm because the bald spot did not spread. Well, I say if it had really been ringworm, my other poodle would have gotten it too because they sleep and play together. Anyway....it is now six months after the vaccine, and the bald spot is still showing no signs of hair growing back.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Thanks so much for starting this thread, *MollyMuiMa*! Amala is my sensitive girl and I don't think I've been taking her reactions seriously enough. She got a few hives after a vaccine a few months ago (can't remember at the moment what it was), developed a tick bite nodule a few months the earlier, and she currently has a lump on her shoulder from a week-old rabies vaccine. She's my delicate flower, I guess. 

I called the vet when I saw the hives and we decided that since Amala was okay otherwise, we weren't too concerned. I did my own research on the tick bite nodule and wasn't very worried, plus she got a Lyme test shortly after. And I was actually not intending to call the vet about Amala's current lump because I thought it was normal for vaccines to cause a little swelling. Now I will call her on Monday to let her know and get it on Amala's file. Maybe next time we can give less than the full amount or use a different brand. 

I wish the law didn't require this so often! These vaccines last for much longer than three years. In fact, maybe I'll just start titering. I think the problems with that are that you have to do it yearly, it costs more than the vaccine, and if your dog bites someone they're still un-vaccinated in the eyes of the law and may require quarantine. I think? I'll have to do some more homework.


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## Yelemay (Jul 25, 2013)

Google info on new vaccine protocols by Dr. Schultz. According to him, and he is an immunologist, once your dog has been given their puppy shots, they do not need boosters....they should be good for life. Titers do not need to be done yearly. The rabies vaccine is the only vaccine required by law, and in most states can be given every 3 years. There's a study going on, called the Rabies Challenge Fund, where they are trying to prove that the rabies shot protects for 5 - 7 years. Please everyone, educate yourself on the dangers of over-vaccinating your animals. They cause so much damage, and most vets think they are harmless.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

*Yelemay*, thank you for that suggestion! When I mentioned that titers "need" to be done, I meant by legal requirement. If I want to forgo my pets rabies vaccine, legally, I need them to pass a titer yearly. Again, I'm not positive about that, or maybe it's a NY law.

For those who don't know, Dr. Shultz explains in this article how yearly vaccinations even became "a thing".

Lifelong Immunity – Why Vets Are Pushing Back | Dogs Naturally Magazine

And to further confuse us, here's an article that explains how a titer may not accurately determine a pet's current level of immunity. :confused3:

PetMD Mobile - The Daily Vet Blog


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## Trevor (Jul 3, 2014)

*The rabies vaccine*

I just have a suggestion for you. I know that rabies shot is very tough on dogs' immune system and liver. So, in three years from now, you can ask for an antibody-titer. It's expensive (around 200 $ in Canada) but you can have a good surprise and learn that your dog has enough rabies antibodies in her blood to fight that disease. And you will probably be able to wait at least another year. Trevor last rabies vaccine was in the spring of 2008 and he never needs another one to be properly immunized against that disease.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I had to revive this thread! Well, it was time for re-vac of rabies and there was no way to avoid it.........unless the vaccine is 'life threatening' there are NO EXEMPTIONS........I even went down to the county vet with the pictures of the skin reaction, the vet looked at her and her records and said NOPE! She was vaccinated in the same spot(rear right thigh)as required by law here..... that is where they always put the rabies vac! I had asked if they could put it on the inside of her thigh and they said no as that place can be problematic (that didn't make sense to me!) And they totally refused to go SQ on the neck too! The only thing they did do was use the smallest syringe they had (25 gauge) hoping for less scarring I guess........... So PF family I guess I'll know in a couple of weeks whether Molly is going to have a THIRD skin reaction to the rabies vac......I just hope it doesn't flare into a full blown case of Ischemic Dermatopathy!! The only good thing is that it doesn't seem to bother her with any itchiness, etc. I just hate the black scars it leaves!


This is a pic of what her 2nd rabies vac looked like after 3-4 weeks (in 2013) and a pic of the scars they left which I guess could be worse but I hate them anyway!:Cry:


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## Lori G (Sep 19, 2014)

Poor baby...I hope she doesn't have a reaction this time.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Ugh I feel your pain! After discussing at length with my Vet what my concerns were (Timi still had a palpable lump from the first rabies, and I was afraid of a worse reaction the second time), and her going on and on about how safe it was, I said well could you at least put it in the other leg so we know which lump is which, and she said no, we always put it in the right leg so we know what it is in case there is a prob...... Trailing off as she realized what she was saying. I glared at her and said make it low enough to amputate in case there is a a problem?
What ever happened to first do no harm!!


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Poor thing. That's crazy they refused to give it sub q or in a different spot. We never administer vaccines IM, always sub q. One thing I would like to mention is never ever do the BI brand of rabies always do Nobivac if you can. On Our most recent trip to the Dermatologist with Killa the Dr told us BI had the highest rate of reaction as well as Fort Dodge I think. She recommended always doing Nobivac.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

She got the Nobivac 3-CA I tried to look up why/if this is different from other Nobivac as it is used only in Calif but could not find anything..............only that the manufacturer is not Pfizer but is Zoetis
she has now had 3 different vaccines............
#1 WAS the RABVAC 3 by Ft Dodge (baaaaad! which I found out later!)
#2 was Nobivac 3 by Pfizer
#3 Nobivac 3-CA by Zoetis

I'll just have to wait and see...............


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Poor Molly. I hope everything will be okay this time. Give her lots of PF hugs for always being a brave little girl.


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## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

My vet gives all vaccines in the leg or tail if possible so if they develop a sarcoma at the injection site, they can amputate. You can't amputate a between-the-shoulder-blades  And that gets me that so many vets deny reactions, but they give them in a place that can be easily amputated. My state doesn't do exemptions either, so I just had to do Asaah's 3 year rabies again, which really sucks. She gets the shot and her thyroid tanks, we get it under control, then she gets the shot and her levels tank again. Pisses me off that they won't take titers. She's 4 and just got the 3 year vac, so it'll be her last one ever, I refuse to vaccinate an old dog. 

MollyMuiMa, can you just take the ticket if she doesn't get it again? A lot of my co-op member friends in MI can get waivers if they live in the right county, but the rest take the ticket for not giving the boosters. It would depend on the consequences though. They just get a ticket from animal control I believe.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I certainly understand being concerned about a companion animal having an adverse reaction to an immunization. One of my Maine **** cats had granulomatous reactions to anything given to her sub cutaneously and since rabies immunization wasn't required for her I never gave her a booster for it after she had the first reaction. thankfully feline distemper vaccines were able to be given intranasally rather than by injection at about the same time, so she never had another injection of anything in her life until the very end when we said goodbye to her.

All that being said I have to take the public health side of the argument here. Rabies can kill people and it does so regularly. It can also kill your dog or cat. Until Louis Pasteur first demonstrated that immunization could protect people was there hope to eradicate the scourge of rabies. Clearly island states and nations that have been able to eradicate it recognize the risks associated with allowing it to return, thus the high bar that has to be cleared to bring a dog to Hawaii or England. So Tiny Poodles to take up your first do no harm point the "no harm" that is behind the rabies requirements that clearly are hard for some people to deal with is to do no harm to human public health with regards to a fatal infection.

CDC - Rabies


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Animal Control showed up at my door again about 3 weeks ago. Fined me $70.00 and said I could send in the Rabies certificate as soon as I got it. I explained that wouldn't happen. I already received a notice from Animal Control that they are waiting for the certificate. I told the guy at the door they could just keep fining me, I wasn't going to kill my indoor only dog, who doesn't even go outside to pee, to satisfy their requirements. I wonder if they'll arrest me! lol


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> I certainly understand being concerned about a companion animal having an adverse reaction to an immunization. One of my Maine **** cats had granulomatous reactions to anything given to her sub cutaneously and since rabies immunization wasn't required for her I never gave her a booster for it after she had the first reaction. thankfully feline distemper vaccines were able to be given intranasally rather than by injection at about the same time, so she never had another injection of anything in her life until the very end when we said goodbye to her.
> 
> All that being said I have to take the public health side of the argument here. Rabies can kill people and it does so regularly. It can also kill your dog or cat. Until Louis Pasteur first demonstrated that immunization could protect people was there hope to eradicate the scourge of rabies. Clearly island states and nations that have been able to eradicate it recognize the risks associated with allowing it to return, thus the high bar that has to be cleared to bring a dog to Hawaii or England. So Tiny Poodles to take up your first do no harm point the "no harm" that is behind the rabies requirements that clearly are hard for some people to deal with is to do no harm to human public health with regards to a fatal infection.
> 
> CDC - Rabies



Yes, I know that it is done for public health, not for the dog's health....


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> Animal Control showed up at my door again about 3 weeks ago. Fined me $70.00 and said I could send in the Rabies certificate as soon as I got it. I explained that wouldn't happen. I already received a notice from Animal Control that they are waiting for the certificate. I told the guy at the door they could just keep fining me, I wasn't going to kill my indoor only dog, who doesn't even go outside to pee, to satisfy their requirements. I wonder if they'll arrest me! lol



Ugh, I am grateful that they don't do that here - unless your dog was involved in some incident, nobody here checks. But since Timi goes to public dog parks, I feel like she should be covered.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

That is so rediculous I would be tempted to have Mish go visit someone else for a bit or maybe keep her in a room closed up and when they came by tell them I did what you asked and gave her the rabies, but guess what, it killed her! Then there wouldn't be any problem and maybe just maybe you might make them feel a little bad. Personally if it ever got to that point I would just tell my AC that my dogs died. It's not like they write up death certificates for dogs to prove it. I also don't see why there is a problem of accepting titers. If a dog is immune it's immune no need to require revacination at that point.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Oh I agree. I think it is very important and I am far from anti-vaccine. We took Olivia in (grandchild) about 4 weeks ago and they vaccinated the crud out of her. All the pre-kindergarten stuff. I did have it split up and done over 2 appointments. But it would be life threatening with Misha and I am very, very careful that she doesn't pose a risk to anyone else. She really does stay in the house. We play a lot of ball and chase and poodle zoomies. If she does go out she stays in my arms and is not put down.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

TP I know you get it, but thought it was a good chance to remind the rest of the viewing public about the importance of rabies control. And I am very glad animal control doesn't come door to door here. Don't they have more important things to spend time on, like tracking down abusers and dog fighting rings and the like?


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> That is so rediculous I would be tempted to have Mish go visit someone else for a bit or maybe keep her in a room closed up and when they came by tell them I did what you asked and gave her the rabies, but guess what, it killed her! Then there wouldn't be any problem and maybe just maybe you might make them feel a little bad. Personally if it ever got to that point I would just tell my AC that my dogs died. It's not like they write up death certificates for dogs to prove it. I also don't see why there is a problem of accepting titers. If a dog is immune it's immune no need to require revacination at that point.


Sending you a PM!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> That is so rediculous I would be tempted to have Mish go visit someone else for a bit or maybe keep her in a room closed up and when they came by tell them I did what you asked and gave her the rabies, but guess what, it killed her! Then there wouldn't be any problem and maybe just maybe you might make them feel a little bad. Personally if it ever got to that point I would just tell my AC that my dogs died. It's not like they write up death certificates for dogs to prove it. I also don't see why there is a problem of accepting titers. If a dog is immune it's immune no need to require revacination at that point.



Being just a touch superstitious, I would just tell them that she had been re-homed - to someone in a different state!


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> That is so rediculous I would be tempted to have Mish go visit someone else for a bit or maybe keep her in a room closed up and when they came by tell them I did what you asked and gave her the rabies, but guess what, it killed her! Then there wouldn't be any problem and maybe just maybe you might make them feel a little bad. Personally if it ever got to that point I would just tell my AC that my dogs died. It's not like they write up death certificates for dogs to prove it. I also don't see why there is a problem of accepting titers. If a dog is immune it's immune no need to require revacination at that point.



About 25 years ago our county started this thing saying that AC would make random home visits. It was basically just a scare tactic. They never showed up at my place, and everyone who I talked to about it said the same thing. Then finally, the whole thing just kind of faded away. But I do think the rabies vaccine is important if the dog is going to be out among unknown dogs or out in the wilderness. We used to do a lot of hiking and camping with the dogs, so we got the rabies vaccine for them. But when we got Trina and Kaydee, we were out of the whole camping wilderness thing, and they never got it.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

How frustrating - I had assumed for dogs that had serious reactions, could get an exception from the rabies vaccine.

Shortly after we got Babykins, I took her out early in the morning for her first potty break only to see a raccoon in the yard of my neighbor that was acting oddly - it was sitting at the edge of the lawn next to the road at day break not moving. I quickly went inside the house with Babykins, but because I felt she might need to pee I took her back out 15 minutes later where I saw the same raccoon wobbling as it tried to move from that spot. We went back in and I called 911. The police came and shot it dead as it was suspected to have rabies. Pretty scary - so I will continue to have my pets vaccinated as I know rabies is right here on my block and not a distant threat.

While I was watching that oddly behaving raccoon it occurred to me that my dog was protected from rabies.........but not me.


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## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

lily cd re said:


> I certainly understand being concerned about a companion animal having an adverse reaction to an immunization. One of my Maine **** cats had granulomatous reactions to anything given to her sub cutaneously and since rabies immunization wasn't required for her I never gave her a booster for it after she had the first reaction. thankfully feline distemper vaccines were able to be given intranasally rather than by injection at about the same time, so she never had another injection of anything in her life until the very end when we said goodbye to her.
> 
> All that being said I have to take the public health side of the argument here. Rabies can kill people and it does so regularly. It can also kill your dog or cat. Until Louis Pasteur first demonstrated that immunization could protect people was there hope to eradicate the scourge of rabies. Clearly island states and nations that have been able to eradicate it recognize the risks associated with allowing it to return, thus the high bar that has to be cleared to bring a dog to Hawaii or England. So Tiny Poodles to take up your first do no harm point the "no harm" that is behind the rabies requirements that clearly are hard for some people to deal with is to do no harm to human public health with regards to a fatal infection.
> 
> CDC - Rabies


I absolutely agree that dogs should be vaccinated for rabies here in the US...but there is good research demonstrating duration of immunity for many years, yet many vets continue to vaccinate yearly or every 3 years at best. In dogs that have been vaccinated, I just don't see why we can't show a titer as proof rather than revaccinating every year or three years. I do know some people who don't vaccinate their dogs at all, and I think that's just as risky as vaccinating too much.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

oshagcj914 I agree that titering as evidence of immunity to appropriate pathogens should suffice, however in the US I think vets have to vaccinate to meet standards set by law. I don't think that will change unless there is really demonstrable eradication of rabies in the US and we know that won't happen since this zoonosis is mostly sylvatic. Living on an island where rabies had been believed to be eradicated, but then having had clear cases of it in raccoons in several recent years shows that it is present even where it is thought not to be so.

Skylar you handled the "wobbly" raccoon situation very well. That is exactly what needed to be done. Seeing raccoons, skunks and foxes active but weirdly so during the day should always raise alarm bells. No one should take a chance of being exposed to rabies.


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## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

lily cd re said:


> oshagcj914 I agree that titering as evidence of immunity to appropriate pathogens should suffice, however in the US I think vets have to vaccinate to meet standards set by law. I don't think that will change unless there is really demonstrable eradication of rabies in the US and we know that won't happen since this zoonosis is mostly sylvatic. Living on an island where rabies had been believed to be eradicated, but then having had clear cases of it in raccoons in several recent years shows that it is present even where it is thought not to be so.
> 
> Skylar you handled the "wobbly" raccoon situation very well. That is exactly what needed to be done. Seeing raccoons, skunks and foxes active but weirdly so during the day should always raise alarm bells. No one should take a chance of being exposed to rabies.


Oh, I'm not suggesting only titers should be required, I think rabies vaccination should be mandatory, and I don't imagine we'll ever eradicate it in the US. But the rabies challenge fund is set up just to raise the interval in which pets are vaccinated. They raised it to every 3 years, and afaik they're trying to get it to 7 after the initial one because that's how long the studies demonstrated duration of immunity to challenge. I'd have to dig up the study, but I think it was 7 years by challenge and even longer by serology, right?

I've had my share of weird acting animals. We also had a raccoon out behaving strangely during the day. I put the dogs in the house and shot it once it got into the woods and called the DNR. I don't think it ended up having rabies, but it was still scary.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I'm sorry I didn't mean to suggest that you thought rabies immunization should be optional. I cross wired my thinking about titering for things other than rabies with the requirement for rabies immunization, but wholly agree that good evidence to show what the interval really needs to be to provide good immunity is a great thing to do. thank you for mentioning the rabies challenge project.

My weirdest near home animal experiences involved seeing a fox playing in a field very near where we were having an agility trial. I just remember thinking that no fox in its right mind should be out in the middle of the day like that, especially not a hundred yards or so from a couple hundred barking dogs. I suspect leptospirosis in that case more than rabies because it is well entrenched here. The other thing was really just an annoyance that happened when the rabid raccoons were found in another part of my town. The town announced that they would carefully place vaccine laced baits in various areas around town to immunize the local raccoon population. How is tossing it out the window of a truck and landing it on my lawn careful placement? Lily smelled it from two houses away when we were returning from a walk apparently since she tried to drag me home and then instead of going down the driveway as usual she made a beeline for the lawn and tried to eat the bait.


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## RD. (Jul 19, 2016)

IMHO rabies vaccination should most definitely be optional, where exposure to rabies is considered a minimal risk. Where I live the main risk is bats, and the risk of exposure to a dog is extremely low. Possible, certainly, but so is getting hit by lightning. And as proven in this area, the risk is FAR greater to humans, than dogs. And with our seasonal weather (up to -40F in winter) bats become a non issue, as they become dormant or head further south for the winter. So the main risk factor only involves 6 months out of the year to begin with. Then factor in areas where bats are seldom if ever sighted, and small dogs that seldom if ever leave the sanctuary of their own property, and rabies becomes far less common than a dog being killed while travelling in a car to the groomers. Vaccination is not mandatory here, nor should it be IMO. 

That doesn't mean that I don't believe in vaccination, quite the opposite, but I don't believe that one should follow the lead from a money grabbing industry. 


Titer testing has been around for many years, but with the vaccine business being a multi-billion dollar industry the people pushing the old science are in no hurry to improve. My dog, and apparently many others posting here merely become an acceptable statistic to these corporations. Also, IME many vets are a bit clueless about vaccines, especially the older ones, who simply do what they have always done over the years. It wasn't long ago that no vet would dream of letting "annual" boosters go 3 years. The more you visit your vet, the more revenue they see at the end of each month. 

Titer testing is where the real research money should be going. The current vaccination laws are based on science coming from those who stand to gain the most financially, which never ends well for the consumer, and in this case even more importantly, for our pets. 

Thanks to everyone who has shared their experience with the various rabies vaccines currently on the market. Our young pup is a couple months away from getting his initial rabies vaccination, and I'm not looking forward to it.


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