# Zylkene for anxiety?



## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I understand your disappointment. My toy, Merlin, has been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. If you do a search with his name, I have lots of threads about his story.

I have been to a behaviorist vet and regulars vets as well. I have tried Clomical (clomipramine) and Prozac (forgot the generic name). Clomicalm was seemingly working but I quit too fast. Then I tried Prozac, because I wanted something to give once a day. Prozac didn't work.

I just weaned him off Prozac and we are back on Clomipramine. It should take 10 days to give results.

In dogs with high levels of anxiety like Merlin, and maybe yours, you need to give them medication if you want to achieve a certain level of calmness. Merlin is afraid of sound, movement, images. Inside the house or inside any building. Outside, he is almost normal. Don't ask me why, I have no idea. He also has separation anxiety, which is why I need to treat him, mostly.

If I were you I would just try those natural remedies. And if it doesn't work, I would have her checked again and prescribed medication. It took me more than a whole year, but I finally came to terms with the fact that my dog would be medicated his whole life.

Merlin has been with me for 1 1/2 years now, and I am still trying to get over the disappointment. I too, was hoping to do agility with him. Toy poodles are incredibly fast in this sport, and it would have been so much fun !

I know it's very hard and I am sorry you are going through this with your dog.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

How disappointing.

Have you discussed this with your vet? If your dog has real anxiety issues that interfere with learning, then I wouldn't bother with Zylkene and Composure. Zylkene is just cow's milk (hydrolized means the proteins are broken up) and Compose is some vitamins and proteins. If this was my dog, I would want to treat her with effective medication known to work on the anxiety. I don't know anything about Pheromone collars - but I would ask your vet what the research shows on them. 

How does she behave at home - have you been able to train her to sit and lay down etc? There are tons of great training videos on YouTube - and since you have experience, I'm sure these will be a small nudge to help you train on your own.

Hopefully when the medication kicks in you can attend training classes with your dog, exposing her to other dogs and people for socialization.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

My first thought is that I am surprised a veterinary behaviorist would recommend over the counter remedies like Zylkene and Composure for anxiety that is so severe she feels the line should not be reproduced, but is not prescribing actual prescription drugs at her disposal that I am confident most veterinary behaviorists would prescribe in a similar situation. 

I would definitely discuss your experience with the breeder and I would be curious to know more about the behaviorist you saw. Is this an actual certified veterinary behaviorist or a trainer casually referred to as a behaviorist?


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I'm with CM......a Veterinary Animal Behaviorist is a doctor with a medical degree and is certified with a specialty in behavior (extra schooling in addition to an Veterinary license!).....not just a 'certified animal trainer!' If you have a Veterinary Animal Behaviorist (ACVB Certified)in your city, that's who you should make an appt with! Google it!


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## jetta0127 (Aug 19, 2016)

Thank you Skylar. I do have an appointment with my vet to discuss this and am looking forward to hearing what she has to say. I don't like the idea of putting her on regular medication and was hoping that the natural supplements might have some benefit, but if the vet feels that she should be on the prescription meds I will certainly give it a try.


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## jetta0127 (Aug 19, 2016)

No CharismaticMillie, the behaviorist I saw was not a veterinary behaviorist, that is a very good point. I know that anyone can call themselves an animal behaviorist, but after looking at this trainers education, experience and resume, I felt she would be a good person to try. I also never thought that problem my puppy was having was so severe as to require medication, that is why I did not consult my vet first. I do have an appointment with my vet now so that can get a medical opinion.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Do you have a contract with your breeder? I could return a puppy/ dog to my breeder for another with a veterinarian behaviorist evaluation like the one you got with the trainer, plus some proof that I had done socialization and tried obedience classes. I know that would be an emotionally wrenching decision. I am so sorry your puppy has these issues.


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## jetta0127 (Aug 19, 2016)

Thank you for your reply Mfmst, however returning her would not be something I would consider as I love her very much. I am just disappointed. Am looking forward to my visit with the vet to see what she has to say before wasting money on natural supplements that may be of no value.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I rather doubt that a breeder would actually want the original puppy back, in the event of health/behavioral issues. Why would they want the ongoing expense and future challenges? They did contract to give you a physically healthy (mentally healthy) puppy. You may not have the space, energy for budget for two. I would get a referral from your vet to a qualified behaviorist so you know what you are facing in the future and keep the breeder apprised of the results.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I am very sorry you're going through this. I was thinking along the lines of sending the puppy back but I get it that you're already attached. And absolutely, I would consult a veterinary behaviorist, not just a trainer and not just a vet. A vet behaviorist will be the best at prescribing something that is in line with the behavioral issues. 

Also, in the future, I would not recommend getting a puppy this old UNLESS you're positive as to how this pup was socialized between birth and about 12 weeks of age. This is the most critical socialization period and it needs to be handled expertly and amply. I do not believe that this behavior you describe is by any means entirely on account of an impoverished socialization between birth and 12 weeks of age. But it could be, along with her temperament deficit, a contributing factor. And I do not know anything of this puppy's breeder or very early experiences. It does not sound like a breeder I'd want a second puppy from. And yes, I suppose it could be a skewed wiring or genes in the brain of sorts. No doubt, that comes up from time to time in dogs as it does in humans. 

I do wish for you all the help you can get. And let this puppy live whatever way is most comfortable for her. Later on, you could get another pup to do agility with maybe...once this gal gets on somewhat of an even keel. I hope that happens for her and you.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

jetta0127 said:


> Thank you for your reply Mfmst, however returning her would not be something I would consider as I love her very much. I am just disappointed. Am looking forward to my visit with the vet to see what she has to say before wasting money on natural supplements that may be of no value.



Years ago I got a puppy that was nothing like I wanted (I wanted a take everywhere Belly-up lap dog, and she, despite being a home raised puppy from the sweetest breeder, acted like she thought I would eat her every time that I picked her up.
I loved her, but I tell you I really resented getting such a project dog. And the way I handled it was to get another dog that was really what I wanted and then all of the resentment went away. Since I was then able to do all of the fun things that .I planned with my dog, I no longer minded the time taking care of my "special needs" girl, and it took a few years but she did make remarkable strides. I don't know if you have the time or resources for two, but I just wanted to give you food for thought.


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## jetta0127 (Aug 19, 2016)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I am very sorry you're going through this. I was thinking along the lines of sending the puppy back but I get it that you're already attached. And absolutely, I would consult a veterinary behaviorist, not just a trainer and not just a vet. A vet behaviorist will be the best at prescribing something that is in line with the behavioral issues.
> 
> Also, in the future, I would not recommend getting a puppy this old UNLESS you're positive as to how this pup was socialized between birth and about 12 weeks of age. This is the most critical socialization period and it needs to be handled expertly and amply. I do not believe that this behavior you describe is by any means entirely on account of an impoverished socialization between birth and 12 weeks of age. But it could be, along with her temperament deficit, a contributing factor. And I do not know anything of this puppy's breeder or very early experiences. It does not sound like a breeder I'd want a second puppy from. And yes, I suppose it could be a skewed wiring or genes in the brain of sorts. No doubt, that comes up from time to time in dogs as it does in humans.
> 
> I do wish for you all the help you can get. And let this puppy live whatever way is most comfortable for her. Later on, you could get another pup to do agility with maybe...once this gal gets on somewhat of an even keel. I hope that happens for her and you.


Thank you so much for your insightful reply. I totally agree with everything you have said and also think that it is lack of socialization combined with temperament. She has a wonderful personality at home and I actually do see a difference in her behavior outside the home now compared to a few months ago. I love her and want her to be able to live the best life possible.


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## jetta0127 (Aug 19, 2016)

Thank you Tiny Poodles..I had planned on getting another Spoo anyway (a male) and I will, however I want to give my girl all of my attention at this point. When I read about the things some others have gone through with their anxious pups, I feel very positive that we can help her be more confident in the world. Thanks for your response!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

jetta0127 I am sorry you are having such worries. Our GSD is an anxious sort of a dog and it is hard to know that he has such concerns and that he can't always tell us effectively what is happening in his head. He hates thunder and noisy situations like big dog show environments. Despite that I have gotten a beginner novice and rally novice and advanced titles with him and BF handled him through his CGC test.

We tried a number of different strategies with him. We used to use acepromazine for dealing with thunder, but decided we didn't like it because it really doesn't relieve the anxiety, but instead blocks the physical expressions of it. We have also used a ThunderShirt with mixed results. The thing that has really worked with him though has been to give him Rescue Remedy. It has worked so well that he even comes outside on the 4th of July most years during the height of my neighborhood's extensive fireworks. I also have given him RR when we do trials. It has made the difference between succeeding and shut downs.

I have also used RR with a dog that was very reactive to other animals and cars. We had started working with her in the home and then the back yard, but when we moved to the front yard it was hard to get her to collect her attention. When we got to that point I had her owners give her RR just before I arrived to work with them. Using it made it possible to communicate with her and make progress in her training.

If you are going to use an over the counter type product (and I think I would start there) I would try Rescue Remedy first. You can give more than the recommended dose safely if you need to.

One other idea I have regarding your situation is to ask you to look at your own mood and body language in situations where your pup gets anxious. Are you worrying about what is happening? Frustrated? Sad? Are you still trying to work with your dog while you are feeling any of those negative emotions? I find that if you are feeling badly, but trying to smile and act happy on the outside, it is very confusing for the dog. It is really important that you match your mood to your outward expression and body language. I used to have all kinds of problems with Lily when she was young. She is a very high energy dog and I often found myself dreading her over the top behaviors so I would tense up internally, but be trying to act like I was happy to see her. Once I resolved to take time before going into the house to greet or letting her out of her crate to play to collect myself and do some deep relaxing breathing while taking a super short walk she changed almost instantly. She was excited to see and interact with me, but she listened effectively to what I was telling her to do.

I have one other suggestion for you, which is to try nose work and/or tracking with your dog. Scent work activities are all based on abilities that all dogs naturally have in spades. Tracking folks often talk about how much confidence their dogs gain from training to track formally.

I hope things improve. You may still be able to do sports with your pup down the road, but I would look at your goal to be to create a balanced happy dog. Everything else is gravy. I don't love Peeves any less for his quirks and have still been able to do things with him despite them.


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

lily cd re said:


> I have one other suggestion for you, which is to try nose work and/or tracking with your dog. Scent work activities are all based on abilities that all dogs naturally have in spades. Tracking folks often talk about how much confidence their dogs gain from training to track formally.


Ahhhh, this! Nosework or tracking is a great idea once you get her generally in a little better place.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Verve said:


> Ahhhh, this! Nosework or tracking is a great idea once you get her generally in a little better place.


Verve, true about getting this puppy to be a bit less environmentally concerned before trying lots of new things, but tracking and nose work games can be started close to home. We used to hide cookies all over the house for the puppies to use their noses to find. It made them very jazzed to do so. My baby step tracking work has been done on my front lawn. Letting an unsure dog do what dogs do naturally: pull hard on the leash with their nose to the ground is very happy work for them.


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## jetta0127 (Aug 19, 2016)

Ohhhh I love the tracking idea!! I will look into this! Thanks for the very informative post lily cd re, I will also check out the Rescue Remedy. I think my girl will really love tracking as she always seems to have her nose to the ground after something. As for my own moods and body language, I try very hard not to project negativity in body language, etc., but I will certainly be more aware going forward. Thanks so much for all of your suggestions!


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