# Hoping to get a cream Standard puppy in the Nor Cal area



## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I would strongly recommend avoiding puppy mill breeders. The health screenings and early socialization a small breeder can provide simply aren't economical for a puppy mill. Others will chime in with recommendations, but I would start by contacting the poodle breed clubs in California. Normally each breed club has someone who can provide references to local breeders. Here is a link that can help you get started. https://poodleclubofamerica.org/find-a-poodle-breeder/listings-category/california/
The two legitimate registries are AKC and UKC. I avoid breeders using Continental Kennel Club. Surprisingly, dogs properly registered with AKC or UKC are usually more common and no more expensive than unregistered dogs. Due to the social pressure for spay and neuter, there aren't nearly as many backyard breeders as in the 1970s. Those who do exist tend to have switched over to doodles. The ones who are serious about the poodle breed, and who do the kinds of health screening and socialization that will get your pet off to a good start, tend to register their puppies.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

I'd rearrange your priorities to; 1) temperment/matchability, 2) color

It's going to be hard to find a cream puppy specifically. Chances are either will probably be on the white to red color spectrum. Then, your puppy might even fade out of a solid cream over time.

Just other prospectives to consider ...


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## TK9NY (Jan 6, 2017)

AKC registration is not going to make a dog more (or less) expensive - plenty of BYBers are charging $2,000+ for their doodles and mixed designers, none of which can be registered with the AKC (or any other reputable registry). It is also not the sole means of determining if a breeder is reputable/responsible - puppy millers register their litters with the AKC, as well as reputable breeders.

Cost should be one of the last things to consider when looking at breeders. You want a breeder who does something with their dogs to prove there is reason to breed them - showing/titling is only one option, obedience/agility is another option as well as involvement with therapy dog work or just plain old working dogs. SOMETHING is better than nothing. The puppy you choose doesn't have to be a champion in the making (in fact, even with show dog breeders most of the puppies produced are considered "pet quality") but you're more likely to wind up with a dog that LOOKS and ACTS like a Poodle should if they're coming from stock that is proven. 

Breeders who DO things with their dogs are also more likely to know how to properly socialize a litter of puppies - which is VERY IMPORTANT if you want to wind up with a stable, happy, dog. Poor socialization, handling, etc early on can lead to nervous behaviors including fear, fear aggression, and so on. 

You also want, and this is the BIGGEST thing to look for, a breeder who does health testing. Not just "the vet saw my dogs and gave the all clear" but involvement with genetic testing organizations like OFA. Poodles can have a number of health issues, many genetic, so testing the adults prior to breeding is essential. Hips, heart, eyes.... seizure disorders.... do a quick google search and find out what breeders SHOULD be testing for, at minimum. It costs way more to manage a genetic disorder than it would to pay for a puppy from screened parents.

What is your "budget"? Is money, or cost, an overall concern? Or is it just a matter of not wanting to spent a butt load on a dog? If you're on a strict budget overall then you might want to do a little more research into the cost of a dog. They are not cheap. Cost of puppy aside you're looking at a good grand or more in basic start up costs the first month or two you have this dog. Big dogs also cost more to feed, and Poodles will cost $$ to groom (REQUIRED every 6-8 weeks). If you don't have any pet insurance ($50+/month) then an emergency can run you in the thousands.

Start with the national Poodle club, someone already gave a link for it. Some states also have state-run clubs, and you may be able to find a LOCAL club. I found my dogs' breeders via google. I did a lot of research on them before hand, and couldn't be happier with my boys. You are not likely to find a good breeder on places like Craigslist or puppy find. Facebook is iffy, as well.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Hi! And welcome.  Have you checked out this thread? Lots of great resources, as well as a list of breeders by location.









🐩 Breeders Listed by Location 🐩 Plus Additional Resources 🐩


GEOGRAPHICAL BREEDERS LIST AND ADDITIONAL RESOURCES PLEASE READ THIS FIRST What this list is NOT: This list is not an endorsement of any breeder by Poodle Forum This list is not a list to just go buy from without doing more investigation This list is not comprehensive What this list IS: This...




www.poodleforum.com





You may also find this helpful: Getting a Dog Tips - Does "AKC" mean a quality dog?

And lots more great info here: Pandemic Puppy Primer

On the topic of budget, the initial cost of a standard poodle really is a drop in the bucket. We pay Peggy’s “price tag” annually in grooming costs alone. And we spent _at least_ that in her first year addressing her social deficits, not to mention the significant time investment.

There are ways to cut costs that have been discussed here in the past. Try typing some key words into the search bar, like “home grooming.” You can also start a new thread, soliciting a fresh round of suggestions. But one area in which folks will tell you to never skimp is choosing a breeder. To save costs long-term, you absolutely want to start with a genetically healthy, well-socialized puppy.

This is a well-circulated blog post and for good reason:


*"I don't want a show dog - just a pet." (Updated for 2020)*

This is one of the most pervasive sentiments that puppy buyers, especially families, express when they’re looking for a dog. What they really mean, of course, is that they don’t want a show BREEDER – don’t want to pay the high price they think show breeders charge, don’t want to go through the often-invasive interview process, and think that they’re getting a better deal or a real bargain because they can get a Lab for $300 or a Shepherd for $150.

I want you to change your mind.

I want you to not only realize the benefits of buying a show-bred dog, I want you to INSIST on a show-bred dog.

And I want you to realize that the cheap dog is really the one that’s the rip-off.

And then I want you to go be obnoxious and, when your workmate says she’s getting a puppy because her neighbor, who raises them, will give her one for free, or when your brother-in-law announces that they’re buying a cheap puppy for the kids, I want you to launch yourself into their solar plexus and steal their wallets and their car keys.

Here’s why:

If I ask you why you want a Maltese, or a Lab, or a Leonberger, or a Cardigan, I would bet you’re notgoing to talk about how much you like their color.

You’re going to tell me things about personality, ability (to perform a specific task), relationships with other animals or humans, size, coat, temperament, and so on. You’ll describe playing ball, or how affectionate you’ve heard that they are, or how well they get along with kids.

The things you will be looking for aren’t the things that describe just “dog”; they’ll be the things that make this particular breed unique and unlike other breeds.

That’s where people have made the right initial decision – they’ve taken the time and made the effort to understand that there are differences between breeds and that they should get one that at least comes close to matching their picture of what they want a dog to be.

Their next step, tragically, is that they go out and find a dog of that breed for as little money and with as much ease as possible.

You need to realize that when you do this, you’re going to the used car dealership, WATCHING them pry the “Audi” plate off a new car, observing them as they use Bondo to stick it on a ’98 Corolla, and then writing them a check and feeling smug that you got an Audi for so little.

It is no bargain.

Those things that distinguish the breed you want from the generic world of “dog” are only there because somebody worked really hard to get them there. And as soon as that work ceases, the dog, no matter how purebred, begins to revert to the generic. That doesn’t mean you won’t get a good dog – the magic and the blessing of dogs is that they are so hard to mess up, in their good souls and minds, that even the most hideously bred one can still be a great dog – but it will not be a good Shepherd, or good Puli, or a good Cardigan. You will not get the specialized abilities, tendencies, or talents of the breed.

If you don’t NEED those special abilities or the predictability of a particular breed, you should not be buying a dog at all. You should go rescue one. That way you’re saving a life and not putting money in pockets where it does not belong.

If you want a purebred and you know that a rescue is not going to fit the bill, the absolute WORST thing you can do is assume that a name equals anything. They really are nothing more than name plates on cars. What matters is whether the engineering and design and service department back up the name plate, so you have some expectation that you’re walking away with more than a label.

Keeping a group of dogs looking and acting like their breed is hard, HARD work. If you do not get the impression that the breeder you’re considering is working that hard, is that dedicated to the breed, is struggling to produce dogs that are more than a breed name, you are getting no bargain; you are only getting ripped off.









I don’t want a show dog; I just want a pet.







rufflyspeaking.net


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Hi and Welcome!

This may feel a bit overwhelming but finding a companion to hopefully live a healthy, happy life with you for the next 15 years, will take more than luck.

These are some tips intended to help distinguish between quality, conscientious breeders, and those just profiting from breeding. Some are already mentioned above.

*We often hear from folks that they just want a pet.* What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that the kind of quality, conscientious breeders many of us prefer to support are _always_ breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions, but are flawless to us .

*It's not unusual to think that there are possibly thousands of breeders to choose from*. For quality, conscientious breeders, that number is more likely only in the hundreds in the US or Canada. A bottom line difference is between those who're breeding primarily for profit and those who're breeding because they feel not only love for poodles but an obligation to the entire breed. Each of their, usually infrequent, breedings are thoughtfully chosen to try to improve something in their lines and consequently the future of the breed.

*About reviews,* a happy owner doesn't necessarily mean an informed owner. It's as likely they've just been lucky, so far. Review any negative comments carefully, if they're allowed to appear.

*Getting a puppy from a quality, conscientious breeder is something like insurance*. Their investment in the health, welfare, and soundness of all the dogs in their care including the puppies they offer to new homes is part of the reason you're not likely to find a less than $2000 USD puppy from them.

The saying is "pay the breeder or pay the vet". Price alone isn't the only thing to separate quality breeders from those less than. We've seen members quote as high, and even much higher pricing for pups from parents not health tested, not proven to meet breed standards, sold as purebred when only a DNA test could determine that since they may be sold without registration papers.

If I knew the risks and have dedicated poodle health savings of several thousand dollars or pet insurance, knew that basically that the breeder and I would part ways as soon as the pup was in my hands because they're very unlikely to stand behind their pup and me thru the pups life, I might proceed with a breeder that doesn't meet my criteria.

But

I also wouldn't pay quality breeder prices, and over, unless I'm getting all the quality breeder perks.


*Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder.* The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

*Look for and verify OFA/CHIC level testing at a minimum.*
There are also poodle specific DNA panels for other testable genetic conditions. Those are companion tests with the OFA/CHIC testing, not in place of.
CHIC Program | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)
Browse By Breed | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)


*A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much to back it if *the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

*Read thru any contracts that may be listed. *If they rule out coverage for conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?

*Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times* and with pandemic puppy seekers, that wait is stretched well into 2021-2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs, 9-5 paying job, and family, rather than keep a website updated.

*When you start making contacts, *let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.

*Color preferences are understandable but* keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies.
That beautiful color you fell for may not look the same in a few weeks, or months, or years. Most poodle colors fade.

*Gender preferences* will also limit your options.

*Temperament and personality* are lifelong traits.

*Be prepared to spend *in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

*Be prepared to travel *outside your preferred area.

*As a very general rule, websites to be leery of* are those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience".

*Be wary of a breeder who sells a puppy with full registration rights (breeding rights which allow pups to be registered with the AKC) simply for the price of admission*. A responsible breeder will not allow their reputation and their poodles to be bred by anyone, to any dog, without having a contractual say in the breeding and the pups. They will want to be involved.

*One additional caution, be very wary of those very cute short legged poodles. *That's a genetic mutation which may carry serious life-altering disease.

*An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. *An online search for "Poodle Club of *___* (your city or state/province)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.
PCA National Breeder Referral - The Poodle Club of America
Search for Local Clubs/Breeders - The Poodle Club of America

*As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, this is my shortlist criteria.*

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come.
Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is _well bred._


*Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time *

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards physically and temperamentally, and are sound by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them


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## calamityangie (Jun 23, 2021)

Just chiming in after all of these EXCELLENT answers above to remind you that the purchase cost of a puppy is the SMALLEST cost you can expect over the life of a dog. Vet bills, pet insurance (highly recommended), accident/emergency fund, regular maintenance surgeries (spay/neuter and gastropexy for Standards), toys / other accouterments like leashes, food and supplements, obedience / training, and (particularly for poodles) GROOMING. Are all going to cost you WAAAY more over the life of the dog than the original purchase price. 

If you are balking at paying for a good quality dog, I'm sorry to say, *you are not ready to own a poodle*. I don't think you need to be fabulously wealthy to own a poodle (or any dog), but if you need to save up for two or three years to afford the purchase price of a good dog, then you should do that because you WILL get what you pay for when it comes to purchasing a cheaper puppy. And, you'll likely end up paying more in health-related costs down the line. 

You want to look for a reputable breeder of show quality dogs who will home dogs with pet / companion seekers when they don't quite reach the level of conformation for showing, but are nevertheless sound and healthy dogs. You want to purchase from a reputable breeder who raises litters with puppy culture or similar and who uses Volhard tests to determine the personality of their pups and who will, therefore, match you with the right dog for you and your family because they know each and every pup they breed. All of these things cost an immense amount of time and money for the breeder, for which they should be compensated. You will pay upwards (sometimes far upwards) of $2000 for a well bred dog (I paid $3500 for mine - apricot male standard) and for most breeders, that simply covers their costs. The do this for the health and love of the breed, not to get rich. 

I'm sorry to be harsh, but I think you really need to look inward on what makes sense for you and it may not be a poodle puppy, at least not right now.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

jcccc said:


> Hi guys I'm new here. I'm hoping to get a cream Standard puppy in the Nor Cal area but because I just want a companion I actually don't really need them to be akc puppies as they are beyond my budget. any ideas to how I can find a puppy? thanks!


jcccc, I don't know if you've been back to look at the info given by members. I hope so because as you move thru your quest and you start talking to all levels of breeders and really start looking at poodles from the best and the least of them, you'll start seeing differences and maybe some of what's been posted here will start to find a place in your experiences.

You wrote that you just want a companion and you don't need AKC puppies because they are beyond your budget, I think there's a misunderstanding there.

It's been said above but I'll say it here too. All that AKC registry means to most owners is that the breeder is "guaranteeing" that the puppy they sell you is purebred, 100% whatever breed they're selling, that it's not a crossbreed. 
Puppy mills also claim to sell AKC registered puppies, and often at the same or higher prices than a quality, conscientious breeder.

Imagine the difference in the level of care provided by a puppy farmer compared to someone who's breeding to add the very best poodles to the future of the breed. 

The puppy farmer does not invest in their dogs. Living conditions, food, veterinary care, proving that their dogs are healthy to breed and actually meet the blueprint of what a poodle should look like and act like, all this and more is not a priority, but they will charge you as much or more as the breeder you're thinking you don't want to buy from. And you may well pay more yourself to fix the things that the farmer could have avoided by breeding with an eye to the poodles rather than profit.

As you proceed on your quest, I hope you consider not only the puppy you'll get but the whole life of the dog they will become.


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