# Why Not a Straight Poodle...??!!



## all that jazz (Feb 6, 2011)

I don't understand it. I go to the dog park and walks and I see only poodle mixes, be it doodle, cocapoo, etc. The owners sought out these dogs. They want hypoallergenic dogs, smart dogs, playful dogs, cute dogs, why not just get a poodle? Why reinvent the wheel? And then they all see my minipoo and remark, (honestly I think) how nice my dog seems. Why and how did poodles get such a bad rep?


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

all that jazz said:


> Why and how did poodles get such a bad rep?


That's easy. They are turned into silly caricatures of dogs in the Conformation ring. _Nobody_ wants a dog like that. So they get a _real_ dog with some of the good traits of Poodles . . . some kind of 'poo.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

*straight poodle*

I've had straight poodles for years since my first poodle at age 6 and I love them! I think it's a style thing....They are out of style because they used to be portrayed on everything. Crosses are a style for now. I still believe poodles are the smartest dogs of all and will always have at least one.


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

When we started looking for a dog, I'd never met a spoo, only yappy toys and minis. I know now that they were likely poorly bred and not well-trained. Had I not done a great deal of research - including talking to actual poodle owners - I may have made a different choice. Now, I can't imagine life without my Katie  



Countryboy said:


> That's easy. They are turned into silly caricatures of dogs in the Conformation ring. _Nobody_ wants a dog like that. So they get a _real_ dog with some of the good traits of Poodles . . . some kind of 'poo.


Hmm, do you think if the rules were changed so that poodles could be shown in any clip they'd gain a better reputation?


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Never liked them in their adult clips....would rather see them in other styles.


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## Liafast (Apr 9, 2011)

In the United Kennel Club you can show spoos in the classic poodle cut or you can show in a sporting clip. They classifiy spoos as hunting dogs. YES!!!!!!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

cookieface said:


> Hmm, do you think if the rules were changed so that poodles could be shown in any clip they'd gain a better reputation?


IMO??? Absolutely!

I don't think it's ever gonna happen at the big shows but it sure shows a different slant on the whole breed when they're in some kind of Hunting Clip. They look like real dogs. *I suppose that's why I like short ears too.*

A lot of y'all have been into Poodles for years. I haven't. Tonka came to me only last April. Up 'til then I was simply a member of The General Public . . . and always pictured Poodles in a Conti. Looking pretty frou-frou.

For my allergic grandson, I went looking for one anyway . . . and got Tonka. Now I've got two!

Frou-frou or not . . Poodles will do that to ya!


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

It's simple: people are lazy and ignorant*. They don't bother to research the Poodle breed and think it's a frou-frou dog with a silly haircut. They don't bother actually talking to poodle breeders or listening to poodle owners they encounter. They think they know better. And thus, they fall victim to the arsenal of marketing gimmicks employed by Designer Dog breeders. It's an epidemic. 

Thankfully, we all know better so more poodles for us! 



> *uninformed; unaware. (Dictionary.com)


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

It seems that the X-poos are what you hear most about..... because poo plus something is the most desirable?


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## rikkia (Nov 5, 2011)

I have to agree on the foo-foo dog opinion reasons. Until we got Poppy my OH was ADAMANT he wanted a "real dog not some circus reject". It's sad but Poodles (at least IMO in the UK) have a reputation as a circus dog that performs tricks and pushes barrels, jumps rings of fire etc.

It's not until you have a Poodle that is not in the 'Foo-Foo' show clips, not that I personally dislike the show clips, that most of the people I meet on the park are astounded that "Poodles actually look like that"! 

There's also the hypo-allergenic tripe that seems to be so prevalent these days that I die a little inside each time a 'labradoodle' or 'cockapoo' owner spews for the bile.


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

Countryboy said:


> IMO??? Absolutely!
> 
> I don't think it's ever gonna happen at the big shows but it sure shows a different slant on the whole breed when they're in some kind of Hunting Clip. They look like real dogs. *I suppose that's why I like short ears too.*
> 
> ...





Rowan said:


> It's simple: people are lazy and ignorant*. They don't bother to research the Poodle breed and think it's a frou-frou dog with a silly haircut. They don't bother actually talking to poodle breeders or listening to poodle owners they encounter. They think they know better. And thus, they fall victim to the arsenal of marketing gimmicks employed by Designer Dog breeders. It's an epidemic.
> 
> Thankfully, we all know better so more poodles for us!


Excellent points. For many people (myself included), the initial dog search begins with "what dogs do we like?" and a big part of "dogs I like" is appearance*. There are some breeds that I just don't find attractive; thus, they didn't even make it to the long list of dogs to consider. If I had never seen a spoo in a pet clip, I doubt they would have been included. I'll admit, because of my shallowness, I eliminated some wonderful breeds simply because they don't have the right look for me. I'm working on that 

* Experience is another big factor. People think "I knew / had a <insert breed> as a child. S/He was a <wonderful / sweet / horrible / mean / etc> dog. I <want / don't want> one just like him/her." I suspect that along with the frou-frou impression from show coats, poorly bred poodles (with bad temperaments and / or health problems) have had a net negative influence on people's feelings. 

Not sure any of this makes sense, so I'm off to bed now.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Rowan said:


> It's simple: people are lazy and ignorant*. They don't bother to research the Poodle breed and think it's a frou-frou dog with a silly haircut.


Well with all due respect, Rowan . . IMO u couldn't be wronger.  lol

U forget that the customer is always right. If yr selling/representing/marketing/promoting a breed that, because of the image u've created, is a breed I'm not interested in . . . why would I research it?

The reason I wouldn't bother researching it is simply because "it's a frou-frou dog with a silly haircut.' The industry has made it so.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Start 'em young....poodles were popular when I was a child, and even though I've had other breeds, I've always had a poodle.


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## rikkia (Nov 5, 2011)

Countryboy said:


> Well with all due respect, Rowan . . IMO u couldn't be wronger.  lol
> 
> U forget that the customer is always right. If yr selling/representing/marketing/promoting a breed that, because of the image u've created, is a breed I'm not interested in . . . why would I research it?
> 
> The reason I wouldn't bother researching it is simply because "it's a frou-frou dog with a silly haircut.' The industry has made it so.



I don't like it but I agree with Countryboy. 

As an example for me I hate Staffies and Rotties. Both scream trophy dog to me. Usually with some uncouth idiot who wants to have a dog because it makes him/her look 'hard and tough'. Not all owners of either breed are like that stereotype but it persists none the less. As such I would never have either breed on any short-list even on a cold day in hell. (Yes I know how ironic it is to be in an openly gay relationship and have a poodle which is most likely seen by others as a trophy dog too, but I don't care what they think of me  )


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I thought this thread was about straight and gay poodles LOL. Poodles have a reputation of being a feminine dog. So they make a poodle cross to make it more masculine. You even see this type of thinking in some pure poodle breeders - trying to make the "royal" size, thinking that a bigger poodle means... what? More "doggy" more "practical"? This doesn't make any sense to me. Same thing for breeders who try to make the smallest teacup size to be even "cuter." Because of the poodle's feminine reputation, I really think it takes a "real" man to own a poodle!


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

Countryboy said:


> Well with all due respect, Rowan . . IMO u couldn't be wronger.  lol
> 
> U forget that the customer is always right. If yr selling/representing/marketing/promoting a breed that, because of the image u've created, is a breed I'm not interested in . . . why would I research it?
> 
> The reason I wouldn't bother researching it is simply because "it's a frou-frou dog with a silly haircut.' The industry has made it so.


I respectfully disagree, and don't understand what this has to do with "a customer always being right." It has to do with a customer unwilling to conduct a modicum of research before adding a living creature to their lives.  

People are buying Designer Dogs that are crossed with POODLES. So they know the poodle is a "hypoallergenic," non-shedding, intelligent breed. They know this because the designer dog breed websites tell them so. If they took that a step further and researched the poodle, they'd have a eureka moment. (If they weren't lazy, ignorant* and prejudiced against the breed in general.)

For example, if I'm buying a car, I don't rush to the lot and scream, "I WANT THE SHINY RED ONE!!!" I do my research, pull out Consumer Reports, and compare the Highlander to the Honda Pilot to the Ford Escape, and probably end up looking at a few makes and models I hadn't before considered. Why? Because I didn't know they existed. So what do I, as the responsible and informed consumer that I am, do? I consider my research and buy the car that's the best match for me.  Do I like the look of the new Camaro or Mustang? Sure I do. But is this vehicle right for me with three dogs and driving in snow, ice and freezing rain? Not so much. 

This is akin to one watching Westminster and deciding, "I want a Bernese Mountain Dog!"--or dismissing the poodle because of it's appearance. It's shortsighted, a recipe for disaster, and well, lazy. 

It's my opinion that an educated consumer (ie., customer) is always right. The other kind is just lazy and ignorant*. 


> *uninformed; unaware. (Dictionary.com)


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

"When you know better, you do better." 

Oprah & Carolina Poodle Rescue:angel2:


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

Rowan said:


> For example, if I'm buying a car, I don't rush to the lot and scream, "I WANT THE SHINY RED ONE!!!" I do my research, pull out Consumer Reports, and compare the Highlander to the Honda Pilot to the Ford Escape, and probably end up looking at a few makes and models I hadn't before considered. Why? Because I didn't know they existed. So what do I, as the responsible and informed consumer that I am, do? I consider my research and buy the car that's the best match for me.  Do I like the look of the new Camaro or Mustang? Sure I do. But is this vehicle right for me with three dogs and driving in snow, ice and freezing rain? Not so much.


You (and the folks here) are much more rational than the average consumer. In my experience, the majority of people would scream "I WANT THE SHINY RED ONE!!!" without the slightest nod to practicality.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

rikkia said:


> (Yes I know how ironic it is to be in an openly gay relationship and have a poodle which is most likely seen by others as a trophy dog too, but I don't care what they think of me  )


ROFL, that made me spew coffee all over the keyboard ... 

I say, embrace the stereotypes! :smile:

I have a similar aversion to yours to Staffies & Rottweilers, not because there aren't lovely representatives of those breeds out there, with beautiful temperaments, but because the types of people who want to own these breeds are also the types who don't socialise or train their dogs. 

There are a number of poodle crosses that I run into regularly in the park. I always, at some point, try to gently inquire as to why they chose a cross, and it is usually roughly that they wanted a non-shedding breed but thought poodles were foo-foo dogs.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Standards are rare around my part of the woods... I see doodles all the time. I don't understand it, but on the other side, when a dog gets too popular, the breed suffers. I don't want to see them over breed ect. I feel like I am in on the best kept secret out there... smiles


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

In KC events, poodles seem to be shown in the Scandinavian clip, which IMHO is much better than the ugly Continental. Poodles don't seem to be particularly popular as a breed here though.

I'm certain the mutt craze will go away eventually. The breeders can't develop their own line like real breeders can, and are just in it for the money. I suspect that a lot of people who paid a lot of money for a mutt and didn't do their research beforehand are now not impressed and have learnt the hard way, and will either buy a purebred dog from a responsible breeder or go to a shelter after the current dog dies. Once demand starts to diminish, prices are going to fall and the bottom is going to drop out of the market, and the breeders in it to make a quick buck are going to get their animals neutered fast.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

zyrcona said:


> *In KC events, poodles seem to be shown in the Scandinavian clip, which IMHO is much better than the ugly Continental. *Poodles don't seem to be particularly popular as a breed here though.
> 
> I'm certain the mutt craze will go away eventually. The breeders can't develop their own line like real breeders can, and are just in it for the money. I suspect that a lot of people who paid a lot of money for a mutt and didn't do their research beforehand are now not impressed and have learnt the hard way, and will either buy a purebred dog from a responsible breeder or go to a shelter after the current dog dies. Once demand starts to diminish, prices are going to fall and the bottom is going to drop out of the market, and the breeders in it to make a quick buck are going to get their animals neutered fast.


(Bolding is mine.)

I agree 100%! Love the Scandi. The Conti? Not so much.


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## all that jazz (Feb 6, 2011)

I must admit that when I posted this thread I had my own assumptions as to the answer and they seem to agree with everyone, but I wanted to hear what you all had to say. I must say, I did not want a poodle but I had to get a hypoallergenic dog, because when I was 5 we had to give away our cockerspaniel due to my allergies and you can imagine how traumatic that was. (My brother wanted to give ME away instead!) I felt my only chance not to repeat that scenario was to get a purebred poodle and not a mix. My kids, (three older boys), wanted a doodle. I also, was just aware of the frufru cuts until I went online and looked at many,many pictures. I then went about convincing my husband and three boys that poodles are not really like that, they are hunters, etc. Well, fast forward. My husband is insanely in love with our poodle. At first he used to say that he is a hunter in "poodle clothing" Now he has come around to accept the whole package and thinks he is beautiful inside AND out. (Though he did have a problem with the Miami, but when it grew out a little he even liked that.) Often, depending on the cut my dog is in, people do not suspect he is a poodle, or if his face is shaved, they think he is a particularly lovely poodle, in other words, the exception. I believe poodles are incredibly misunderstood.


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## Tymaca (Oct 13, 2011)

all that jazz said:


> I don't understand it. I go to the dog park and walks and I see only poodle mixes, be it doodle, cocapoo, etc. The owners sought out these dogs. They want hypoallergenic dogs, smart dogs, playful dogs, cute dogs, why not just get a poodle? Why reinvent the wheel? And then they all see my minipoo and remark, (honestly I think) how nice my dog seems. Why and how did poodles get such a bad rep?


I must admit, when I got my SPOO (in Oct 2011), I was shocked that THIS is what poodles were like. I had this whole unrealistic thought in my head of what type of dog they were. My husband didn't even want one - he was worse and had the negative stereotype in his head - whatever that is! Now, I rub it in his face all the time! I will say, "Oh, and YOU didn't want a poodle?!" ~ as he is rolling around playing with Zoe. He is a convert! I always wanted one, just didn't know they were THIS amazing. She exceeded my expectations!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Oohhh I love the continental! It's my favorite!! Not so crazy about the scandi. Too much hair!


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

ChocolateMillie said:


> Oohhh I love the continental! It's my favorite!! Not so crazy about the scandi. Too much hair!


And to me that's the beauty of our breed. There's something to please _everyone_. A size, color, haircut, etc. But underneath all these exterior bells & whistles, they're ALL poodle. 

I do like certain poods in the Conti though. London, Tiger, Patrick, etc. Certain poods just wear it well. They're just like us--the haircut makes the poodle!


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I will say that there is a reputation poodles have earned over the years by the way they look and how they were portrayed as lap dogs (small ones), or all frilly and fancy and dainty with a dainty femme fatale. However, the reason I have had poodles since I was very young was a heatlh reason -- severe allergies -- so it started that way. I will say, however, that many very educated and accomplished men (and women) have been drawn to poodles for many years on account of their intelligence and athleticism. That's not mainstream, however. But I think it is the stereotype and visual that people see (especially when watching the dog shows) which sets the mark. Sad but true.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

ChocolateMillie said:


> Oohhh I love the continental! It's my favorite!! Not so crazy about the scandi. Too much hair!


I'm with ChocolateMillie on this one! Love the CC. Then again, a well-groomed poodle no matter the size or haircut can be breathtaking. It's ironic that people skip the poodle based on appearance when they can change their looks the most!


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Actually, the reason I had one as a little girl was because of the fru fru. Poodles were portrayed and advertized (in fashion) at the time as elegant and aloof. And it stuck. Toys were as the name implies....a live stuffed animal. The fifties had its own style, as does any other decade and generation. The context of that decade marked the poodle as we have come to see and hear. I'm glad to see that hunting and field trials are beginning to help change that image and return the poodle to its original intent. But, toys and minis with elaborate haircuts really do look like toy stuffed animals and they are adorable. And how, I ask myself, could anyone resist that! But I am hooked.....


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## lavillerose (Feb 16, 2011)

You guys are leaving out a key element here: How a dog is raised. The stereotype of the nippy, yappy, foo foo poodle on a pillow came from somewhere too. Stereotypes develop from truths.

When I was very little, my grandma had an ugly little white toy poodle, Muffy. Having my own dogs, cats, goats and chickens at home, of course I wanted to connect with this animal too. But every time I tried to pet her, she growled and snapped at me, bit me several times. Mind you, I was a five year old, but I was very good and quiet with animals even then, but this dog hated me. In fact, she hated _everyone_, except my grandma.

Now aside from the likely pet store breeding, my grandma babied that dog. Infantilized her, made her the baby that was available all the time, like any rather lonely old woman might. My grandpa on the other hand, who was the sort who believed dogs were meant to be outside and tough, swatted her with newspapers and openly detested that he had to live with a foo-foo toy poodle. She rarely went out, never met other dogs or people. As a groomer now, I wonder if she was one of those cage-shy dogs that cowers and snaps the whole time when she went to the groomer. Or perhaps that was the only place she'd come out of her shell, if maybe she had a groomer who gave her that kind of confidence.

So there was Muffy, and the only person who was consistently nice to her was my grandma, so of course she was terrified of anyone else. She'd yap, bite, shake, and sit on a cushion, your perfect poodle stereotype.

Of course, most of us here know that if you don't baby dogs and try to treat them like human children, but speak to them in dog language (by which I mean have an understanding of dog sociology and how they crave a place in their pack and a leader to look to), as well as not sheltering them and letting them be dogs. Doesn't mean we don't love them, just that we dog people grasp that anthropomorphizing our pets too much is damaging to them.

If you treat poodles (or any of these "foo foo" breeds that typically get babied) like dogs, they will behave as such. And if they get the opportunity to be social and learn about the world and all its people and noises and other animals, they won't be the frightful, yappy, nippy stereotype, no matter what haircut you put them in. They'll just be an outgoing, confident, friendly dog, and show all these uninformed -oodle people how cool they are all by themselves.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Good for you, lavillerose! I've always thought I babied my poodles too much. Just growing up when I did, I guess.... 

Some of those little guys see all of that big stuff around them and maybe get scared, anyway. And some big people (and little) are not careful enough around them and could accidently hurt them because they are so little. How could their mamas (and daddies) not be overly protective of them as one would of a baby and small child. 

I'm all for treating them as dogs; we would all be much happier!


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## lavillerose (Feb 16, 2011)

Well, since I see people making their pets more fearful by babying them to death every day in my groom shop, clutching them close and getting _themselves_ worked into a fret over leaving their dog for a whole hour, it irritates me. You know dogs, especially poodles, absorb emotions like that from them. People steal their dog's confidence, make their dogs terrified by being too terrified to put them down and let them be normal, well beyond puppyhood, walking them in strollers and dressing them in clothes like an infant. Children can get away with that. If adults do it, it's just obnoxious. It's helicopter parenting for dogs. I think a dog's feet belong on the ground, no matter if it's 3 lbs or 150lbs. Carry it under your arm all the time and it's going to believe it can't walk.

Doesn't mean I make my dog sleep outside and not be allowed on the sofa, because she's as much of a house dog as any (on a cushion, even!), but tell you what, my little mini poodle has converted dozens in her first year to how cool poodles are, just by having been socialized and walked on a leash, allowed to sniff butts, wrestle, and show people that poodles are dogs too, foo foo haircuts and all.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

I've also never understood the doggie clothes, except sweaters. I may have put a dress on one of my poodles somewhere since age six, but I really don't remember. And I turn around (years later) and see all of the doggie clothes in stores and online. 

If truth be told, I've succumbed to Halloween outfits for pictures (I loved trick or treat as a child), and Santa Claus hats for Christmas and pictures, and even a Cheese Head for the Superbowl and pictures (one of my spoos is named "Who Dat"). And I have friends who have whole doggie wardrobes.

I'm interested in hearing about all of the outfits and poodles out there. I love it, I just don't understand it, and I pretty much don't do it. I have enough trouble with my own clothes.


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

petitpie said:


> I've also never understood the doggie clothes, except sweaters.


I can't stand them. xD No offence to those who do like them, and no offence to those who like the Continental clip from my earlier post too. I don't mind the practical dog clothing meant to keep a dog with an insufficient coat warm or a dog backpack to carry water flasks etc. and that kind of thing, but I don't like the ones that look like ridiculous human costumes.



lavillerose said:


> Doesn't mean I make my dog sleep outside and not be allowed on the sofa, because she's as much of a house dog as any (on a cushion, even!)


Before I got my dog, I read all those outdated theories about 'alpha' and dominance and submission and that you should never feed your dog before yourself and believed them. After I got my dog, I realised this was a load of rubbish. Dogs have emotions and dominance and submission belong in kinky dungeons. It's OK for a dog to be a family member, but it needs to learn self control and to respect your authority and personal space, and it needs to feel that you will keep it safe. Of course, it's easier to explain the BDSM theory of how to own a dog than to explain to someone how you teach a dog self control and to respect your authority and space.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Now that I think about it, the Halloween doggie outfits seem to all be a soft version of some fruit or vegetable. How kinky is that! ;D


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Oh my! One was a hamburger and one was a hotdog! ;D ;D ;D


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Since I took over running my own pack of spoos, they are all better behaved, have more respect for my authority and space, and are emotionally stablizing with who won't do what to whom. Even my toy poo Oreo is listening to me. 

But I thnk this is getting more into the realm of obedience and training.......

Word of mouth from one poodle lover to another seems to be the best way to spread news of this wonderful animal. Fleeting, outside attention is not as likely to be as desirable for long-term ownership and care. Whatever we might think of stereotyped poodle images, they are there for us to dispell and dispatch lickety-split and well.


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

LOL I had to look at this thread..I wondered if you thought you have a gay poodle


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Ms Stella said:


> LOL I had to look at this thread..I wondered if you thought you have a gay poodle


I have one with a gay tail. Does that count?


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## Dallasminis (Feb 6, 2011)

Great pic of Tonka!


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## Leooonie (May 30, 2009)

My stepdad refuses to walk Harley in his current cut without his full body coat on (he is in the conti and is being corded) basically he isn't a real man xD
I always enquire into why doodle owners go doodles and ally of them time they say they don't like poodles..... Which begs the question.. 

Why would you get a dog that was half of a breed you don't like!?


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Your stepdad might just be uniformed. Poodles do seem to be the ""preferred" cross...


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## stealthq (Aug 4, 2011)

Leooonie said:


> Why would you get a dog that was half of a breed you don't like!?


Because they have some trait you like. Like when the Burmese breeders out-crossed to red-point Siamese because they liked the color - an example of an oops litter that ended up changing the international breed standard. Of course, then they went back to Burmese to re-fix the Burmese traits with the exception of the new color.

Most people don't think of the fact that breeding isn't like playing with Legos where you can pick and choose the bits you want and discard the rest. For poodles, it's almost always the coat. What lots of people want is a non-shedding hypoallergenic lab/golden/<insert favorite non-poodle breed>. They just don't realize that you're not likely to get that with a doodle.


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## Jkline65 (Feb 23, 2011)

*i agree...*

I get people all the time tell me how nice and well behaved my dog is and then ask 'what is she?' To me it's obvious she's a standard poodle but it really seems to be about the hair cut. They only see poodles in show clips and if they see on in a pet clip they assume it's something else. They are also surprised that she never barks, they assume they are yappy. (she barks but not annoyingly so and not AT stuff unless she's out in the yard and sees an animal. Never the mail man, never kids walking by etc.) 

Poodles need a better PR firm...:act-up:


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