# Puppies.com



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Puppies.com, Puppyspot and Greenfield Puppies are puppy brokers, it is a eed flag to me if they are selling through these sites.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

twyla said:


> Puppies.com, Puppyspot and Greenfield Puppies are puppy brokers, it is a eed flag to me if they are selling through these sites.


Is it a broker or an advertising platform? Either way, it’s probably safe to say that good poodle breeders don’t often have puppies left over or feel the need to advertise to the general public/cast a wide net. _Edit: Especially toy poodle breeders, as toys have such small litters. I believe the OP is looking for a toy._

@Aldodog1, have you checked out the “Litters from health tested poodles” group on Facebook? I can’t vouch for any current listings there, but it’s probably a better option than generic puppy classifieds.

I just took a quick look at puppies.com and saw an “I have to re-home my puppy” ad that looked like a front for a puppy mill or backyard breeder (if not an outright scam).

Really you’re probably better off searching for a breeder first, puppy second.


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## Aldodog1 (10 mo ago)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Is it a broker or an advertising platform? Either way, it’s probably safe to say that good poodle breeders don’t often have puppies left over or feel the need to advertise to the general public/cast a wide net. _Edit: Especially toy poodle breeders, as toys have such small litters. I believe the OP is looking for a toy._
> 
> @Aldodog1, have you checked out the “Litters from health tested poodles” group on Facebook? I can’t vouch for any current listings there, but it’s probably a better option than generic puppy classifieds.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the FB idea. I'll check into it. I've been looking at AKC approved breeders and going from there. Really tough call sometimes to figure out who is a good one.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

@Aldodog1 I salute you on your caution. AKC does not actually approve breeders; they allow them to advertise, with some level of disclosure.

I suppose the AKC Breeder of Merit and Bred With Heart programs are approvals of a sort, but the AKC Marketplace, not so much. @Rose n Poos has a breeder list posted here which seems invaluable. It is not all inclusive - that's impossible - and we each remain responsible for doing our own due diligence, but it has a lot to offer.

If someone on the list referred me to another breeder s/he knew and liked and/or worked with on breedings, I would tend towards looking favorably on that person, just do some quiet reading on my own, too. That's how I got my last puppy many years ago, from an incredible breeder, may her good and lovely soul rest in peace.

Find a good fit with a breeder; a puppy can flow from there ❤.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

I would go with either AKC Marketplace or Gooddog over puppies.com. Even then I would carefully vet the breeder.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Aldodog1 said:


> Is it a sign of a bad breeder when you find their puppies that have not sold under Puppies.com? Didn't know if this was a regular practice of breeders or a sign.


Answered above and yes, it is a caution flag. As mentioned, the quality, conscientious breeders don't have "leftover" pups because they are not breeding as a business. They breed to improve something in their poodles and any litters are spoken for often before being born.



Aldodog1 said:


> I've been looking at AKC approved breeders and going from there. Really tough call sometimes to figure out who is a good one.


Emphasizing that the AKC doesn't "approve" breeders. They register purebred puppies but not breeders. That said, they do have the two programs, Breeder of Merit and Bred with HEART, both of which require breeders to meet certain qualifications to participate in that program.

Now that you've brought it up, here's a tips list to help research and select a conscientious breeder of well bred poodles.

You can also read information directly from one of our members who is a very well-respected breeder here.

A quality breeder isn't location dependent. Their characteristics are the same everywhere.

*We often hear from folks that they just want a pet.*
What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that the quality, conscientious breeders are _always _breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions but are flawless to us .

*It's not unusual to think that there are possibly thousands of breeders to choose from.*
For quality, conscientious breeders, that number is more likely only in the hundreds in the US and Canada. A bottom-line difference is between those who are breeding primarily for profit and those who are breeding because they feel not only love for poodles but an obligation to the entire breed. Each of their, usually infrequent, breeding's are thoughtfully chosen to try to improve something in their lines and consequently the future of the breed.

*About reviews*,
a happy owner doesn't necessarily mean an informed owner. It's as likely they've just been lucky, so far. Review any negative comments carefully, if they're allowed to appear.

*Getting a puppy from a quality, conscientious breeder is something like insurance.*
Their investment in the health, welfare, and soundness of all the dogs in their care including the puppies they offer to new homes is part of the reason you're not likely to find a less than $2000 USD puppy from them.

*The saying is "pay the breeder or pay the vet".*
Price alone isn't the only thing to separate quality breeders from those less than. We've seen members quote as high, and even much higher pricing for pups from parents not health tested, not proven to meet breed standards, sold as purebred when only a DNA test could determine that since they may be sold without registration papers.

If I knew the risks and have dedicated poodle health savings of several thousand dollars or pet insurance, knew that basically that the breeder and I would part ways as soon as the pup was in my hands because they're very unlikely to stand behind their pup and me thru the pups life, I might proceed with a breeder that doesn't meet my criteria.

But

_I also wouldn't pay quality breeder prices, and over, unless I'm getting all the quality breeder perks._


*Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder. *The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

*Look for and verify OFA/CHIC level testing at a minimum. The recommended testing by The Poodle Club of America is a mix of physical exams and, for miniatures and toys there is also one DNA test.*

The OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) registers testing from other countries as well as from the US.

There are additional poodle specific DNA panels for other testable genetic conditions.
Those are companion tests with the OFA/CHIC testing, not in place of.

CHIC Program | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)
Browse By Breed | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

Toy Poodle recommended testing from the PCA with results listed on OFA

*Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)*
DNA-based test from an approved laboratory; results registered with OFA ➚
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Patellar Luxation*
OFA Evaluation, minimum age 1 year ➚
Miniature Poodle (just in case you expand your choices)

*Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)*
DNA-based test from an approved laboratory; results registered with OFA ➚
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Patellar Luxation*
OFA evaluation, minimum age 1 year ➚
*Hip Dysplasia* (One of the following)
OFA Evaluation ➚
PennHIP Evaluation
The PRA test is a DNA test. The others are physical exams done by a qualified vet.
The DNA panels are nice and have helpful info but should not be accepted as the only health testing.

Standard Poodle


*Hip Dysplasia* (One of the following)
OFA Evaluation ➚
PennHIP Evaluation
*Eye Examination*
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚
*Health Elective* (One of the following)
OFA Thyroid evaluation from an approved laboratory ➚
OFA SA Evaluation from an approved dermapathologist ➚
Congenital Cardiac Exam ➚
Advanced Cardiac Exam ➚
Basic Cardiac Exam ➚

*A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy*
doesn't have much to back it if the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety recommended by the Poodle Club of America. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

*Read thru any contracts that may be listed*.
If they rule out coverage for health conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?

*Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times*
and that wait is stretched well into 2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs, 9-5 paying job, and family, rather than keep a website updated.

*When you start making contacts*, let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.

*Color preferences* are understandable but keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies.
That beautiful color you fell for may not look the same in a few weeks, or months, or years. Most poodle colors fade.

*Gender preferences* will also limit your options.

*Temperament and personality* are lifelong traits.

*Be prepared to spend* in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid but everyone's costs have gone up.

*Be prepared to travel* outside your preferred area.

*As a very general rule, websites to be leery of are*
those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience". A breeder using marketing terms like teacup, royal, giant don't really know poodles in relation to the breed standard. Pricing differently for size or color is also marketing.

*Be wary of a breeder who sells a puppy with full registration rights
(*breeding rights which allow the next generation of pups to be registered with the AKC) simply for the price of admission. A responsible breeder will not allow their reputation and their poodles to be bred by anyone, to any dog, without having a contractual say in the breeding and the pups. They will want to be involved.

*Be wary of a breeder who sells on commercial/retail/broker sites. *
They are often a for profit business and are not doing this for the good of the poodle breed. Having a state or USDA license is _not_ a selling point. It's more a caution flag.

Here are the links to search if you don't want to buy from a volume/commercial for-profit breeder;

*List of persons licensed or registered under the Animal Welfare Act (AWA)*

This site contains information on dealers, exhibitors, research facilities, carriers, and intermediate handlers who have obtained a license or registration under the AWA.

*Inspection reports*

This site contains reports of inspection prepared by inspectors of the USDA’s Animal Care program. An inspection report documents an inspector’s observations and professional assessments of compliance at facilities regulated under the AWA. Animal Care has added standard operating procedures to allow us to conduct inspections virtually so that we can ensure animal welfare even in situations in which we cannot safely be physically present at a facility. If you would like to review these SOPs they can be found at this link: https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/animalwelfare/sa_publications/ct_publications_and_guidance_documents

*Animal Welfare Enforcement Actions*

This searchable page provides access to the APHIS’ final enforcement records for the Animal Welfare Act and Horse Protection Act.

*Teachable Moments*

This site contains teachable moments prepared by inspectors of the USDA’s Animal Care program.

*Research facility animal use annual reports*

This site contains information on the numbers and types of animals used for research purposes during a given fiscal year. Research facilities must submit an annual report of this information to Animal Care.


*One additional caution, be very wary of those very cute short legged poodles.*
That's a genetic mutation which may carry serious life-altering disease.

An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. An online search for "Poodle Club of ___ (your city or state/province)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.



As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, this is my shortlist criteria.

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come.
_Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is well bred._


Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time 

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards physically and temperamentally and are sound by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.


To start a search for a breeder, use the official Poodle Clubs first. PF has a lot of resources to view also, and individual recommendations will be made too. Compare those to the information above for a good shot at a quality, conscientious breeder and a happy, healthy poodle.

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A note on "Champion bloodlines" or variations of...

The phrase "Championship _lines_" is nearly meaningless unless, as Phaz23 points out, the dam and sire are the champions, and their dams and sires...

"Championship" counts in the conformation ring, to prove that each generation is meeting the breed standard. It's not a given, an inherent trait that gets passed down.


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## Aldodog1 (10 mo ago)

Rose n Poos said:


> Answered above and yes, it is a caution flag. As mentioned, the quality, conscientious breeders don't have "leftover" pups because they are not breeding as a business. They breed to improve something in their poodles and any litters are spoken for often before being born.
> 
> 
> Emphasizing that the AKC doesn't "approve" breeders. They register purebred puppies but not breeders. That said, they do have the two programs, Breeder of Merit and Bred with HEART, both of which require breeders to meet certain qualifications to participate in that program.
> ...


Thank you so very much. I appreciate all of your advice and information. I lost my little boy at age 16. He was my constant companion. I was extremely lucky with him.


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## shades_of_red (9 mo ago)

Aldodog1 said:


> Is it a sign of a bad breeder when you find their puppies that have not sold under Puppies.com? Didn't know if this was a regular practice of breeders or a sign. I searched for this question before posting and didn't find anything. Thank you for your help.


I can't speak for puppies.com in general as there are a lot of breeders and a lot of puppies on there. I would have a hard time stating that all are "bad" or "good" but agreed that the site seems to not have many safeguards or expectations of the breeders so I would proceed with cation on that site as with any. That being said there are some great replies on this post as to what to look for in a breeder with the examples of health testing minimums and so forth. I believe communication is key. Finding a breeder who is willing and wants to build a relationship with the potential new puppy owner is a positive sign. If you live far from the breeder and cannot visit their premises I don't think its bad to ask to Facetime to be shown around and meet them to get an idea of their character. A good breeder should be operating with integrity and ethics and communication will always be key. Ask questions, but also keep in mind that a good breeder will also be asking you questions as well. I would expect from a breeder willing and openness to understand what their practices are, how they are ensuring the integrity of breed is being preserved, and in what ways the puppies are cared for and shaped prior to becoming your life long companion. Best of luck on the journey to find your treasured poodle!


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