# Dog test time..dna and all the goodies ..



## Cookiesmom (Mar 4, 2021)

Hi, wondering if there was a preferred dna test company.. I have used embark and it seemed ok but I’m no expert …


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

Pawprints Gentics is what I like and I think they still have a sale going. I’m doing both pawprints and embark because embark is the only one test for the silver/grey gene (it’s on the intesity panel). They also now test for roan and I’m hoping for ticking soon.

Embark isn’t accurate for the IVDD test.

OFA hips and PCA recommended test should be done too.


Please don’t breed doodles or merles..there’s enough greeders out there.


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## Cookiesmom (Mar 4, 2021)

Speaking of greeders, I have a photo ,it’s not my dog , don’t worry.. it’s changed my opinion on the breeders ethics, it’s a huuuuuge breeder too… they didn’t look sketchy on the outside but I feel like they aren’t good now…


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## Cookiesmom (Mar 4, 2021)

Thanks!


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

What breeder is that dog from?

There are a lot of bad breeders . Just because they are a big breeder doesn’t mean they are a good one trying to improve the breed. I’m fine with people making money off their litters. You can’t keep going if you don’t make some of the money up spent doing shows and health test. But someone who just has a dog and wants to cross it with the mutt next door because it might make a cute cross newest doodle or merle so they can sell puppies for $$$$ I’m not ok with.


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## Cookiesmom (Mar 4, 2021)

Mel said:


> What breeder is that dog from?
> 
> There are a lot of bad breeders . Just because they are a big breeder doesn’t mean they are a good one trying to improve the breed. I’m fine with people making money off their litters. You can’t keep going if you don’t make some of the money up spent doing shows and health test. But someone who just has a dog and wants to cross it with the mutt next door because it might make a cute cross newest doodle or merle so they can sell puppies for $$$$ I’m not ok with.


Quail ridge…


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## Cookiesmom (Mar 4, 2021)

On the website currently….


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

You might find this thread helpful :








🐩 Breeders Listed by Location 🐩 Plus Additional Resources 🐩


GEOGRAPHICAL BREEDERS LIST AND ADDITIONAL RESOURCES PLEASE READ THIS FIRST What this list is NOT: This list is not an endorsement of any breeder by Poodle Forum This list is not a list to just go buy from without doing more investigation This list is not comprehensive What this list IS: This...




www.poodleforum.com


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

If you're searching for a breeder and this is possibly new to you, or has been a while, there's a lot to consider.

I keep a list of criteria that I use to evaluate whether a breeder is one I'd choose for a pup for myself.

We often hear from folks that they just want a pet. What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that the kind of quality, conscientious breeders many of us prefer to support are _always_ breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions, but are flawless to us.

It's not unusual to think that there are possibly thousands of breeders to choose from. For quality, conscientious breeders, that number is more likely only in the hundreds in the US. A bottom line difference is between those who're breeding primarily for profit and those who're breeding because they feel not only love for poodles but an obligation to the entire breed.

Getting a puppy from a quality, conscientious breeder is something like insurance. Their investment in the health, welfare, and soundness of all the dogs in their care including the puppies they offer to new homes is part of the reason you're not likely to find a less than $2000 USD puppy from them.

If I knew the risks and have dedicated poodle health savings of several thousand dollars or pet insurance, knew that basically that the breeder and I would part ways as soon as the pup was in my hands because they're very unlikely to stand behind their pup and me thru the pups life, I might proceed with a breeder that doesn't meet my criteria.

But

I also wouldn't pay quality breeder prices, and above, unless I'm getting all the quality breeder perks.

Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder. The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

Look for and verify OFA/CHIC level testing at a minimum. There are also poodle specific DNA panels for those testable conditions. Those are companion testing with the OFA/CHIC testing.
Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)

The saying is "pay the breeder or pay the vet". Price alone isn't the only thing to separate quality breeders from those less than. We've seen members quote as high and even much higher pricing for pups from parents not health tested, not proven to meet breed standards, sold as purebred when only a DNA test could determine that since they may be sold without registration papers.

A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much to back it if the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

Read thru any contracts that may be listed. If they rule out coverage for conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?

Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times and with pandemic puppy seekers, that wait is stretched well into 2021-2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs rather than keep a website updated.

When you start making contacts, let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.

Color preferences are understandable but keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies. That beautiful color you fell for may not look the same in a few weeks, or months, or years.

Temperament and personality are lifelong traits.

About reviews, a happy owner doesn't necessarily mean an informed owner. It's as likely they've just been lucky, so far. Review any negative comments carefully, if they're allowed to appear.

Be prepared to spend in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

Be prepared to travel outside your preferred area.

As a very general rule, websites to be leery of are those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience".


An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. An online search for "Poodle Club of ___ (your city or state)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.


As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, below is my short version personal criteria.

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come.
Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is _well bred._


Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time 

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards and are physically capable by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Cookiesmom said:


> Quail ridge…


If this is the one you're referring to Breeder of Poodles Doodles Goldendoodles Bernedoodles Golden Mountain Doodles Maryland LaPlata MD (quailridgepoodlesanddoodles.com)
there's something that needs clarifying.

It's easy to think that the reason crossbreeds aren't "liked" when you hit a purebred forum is because of the dogs.

That's not the reason.
The reason is the breeders.

First, no breeder that I consider a quality, conscientious breeder who has worked so hard to make sure that their dogs meet their particular breed standard, and pass the heath testing, are going to allow their individual dogs or their kennel reputation to be involved in creating cross breed dogs.
This will hold true for any purebred breeder.

This means that virtually any breeder crossing breeds is working with dogs that are not likely to have been health tested or proven to meet the standard for that breed. They will not have the best to breed from when buying breeding dogs from other breeders. 

They're also not likely if breeding their own dogs to do the health testing for every breeding dog of the two or more breeds that they're crossing and they're not likely to be showing their dogs to prove they meet their specific breed standard before breeding.

They may refer to these crosses as a "breed", even as a "designer breed". That's nothing but marketing.

Mixing two (or more) breeds is truly a double barrel genetic shotgun. It takes generations of knowledgeable breeders and very selective breeding to create a reproducible genetic result identifiable as a separate breed.

Until/unless that happens, the results will be unpredictable. You have different sizes, different physical structure, different performance reasons that the breeds were developed for, different temperaments, different coat types, different heritable health issues...

A quality breeder of purebred dogs is looking at each of those characteristics and more before they pair dogs of the same breed, let alone add in the surprises of another breed. 


Practically every one of us has had a "designer breed" dog in their life. We just called them mixes, didn't pay thousands of dollars for them, and loved them with all our hearts.


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## Mel (Apr 4, 2012)

Rose N Poodles— that is a awesome post.


Definitely not a good breeder. That is not a breeder who is trying to preserve the breed and trying to improve each generation. Doodles, merles 🤢..


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## Summer (May 2, 2016)

I've used optimal selection in the past. In the future I'll use Canine Health Check from Paw Prints because it includes the PRA-RCD4 test. I had to buy that one separately since it's fairly new, and when it came out I'd already tested my dogs with optimal selection. Right now Canine Health Check is the only one that includes it in their panel. Day Blindness you can get from Wisdom Health only.


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## Cookiesmom (Mar 4, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> If you're searching for a breeder and this is possibly new to you, or has been a while, there's a lot to consider.
> 
> I keep a list of criteria that I use to evaluate whether a breeder is one I'd choose for a pup for myself.
> 
> ...


Excellent information, thank you!


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