# Specific questions on shaving the face and feet



## pizzapizazz (Apr 13, 2016)

I would like to keep up with weekly shaving of my puppy's FFT. The tail and feet are fine, but I'm a little confused on the lines of a face. *Can you tell me which of each is ideal?* Right now, the lines are set at A, and 1. You can't really tell that the line is A unless you back comb the hair on her face. Should I be shaving across the bridge of the nose, or be letting that grow into the top knot? I'm also curious what is ideal for the side of the face. Should I be letting it grow in lower than from the edge of the eye to the top edge of the ear? I'm sorry for terrible doodling, but I think it gets my point across. In my doodle of the side face, the ears are supposed to look as if they are pulled backwards.









Actually, I do have a question about the feet too. *Should I be shaving the back of the ankles, right above the pad?* The front of her feet are shaved to the ankle, but the back isn't I don't think. In between her pads are shaved though. 

Lastly! *How the heck do you hold a puppy face still?* She is totally fine with feet and tail, but turns into a wiggle worm for her face. I do not have a grooming table with an arm, though I do have an extra set of hands that are attached to my boyfriend, hah!
Any advice is appreciated! I've searched, but cannot find what I am looking for.


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## Verve (Oct 31, 2016)

I would say B and 1. You want a line between the ear and the outer corner of the eye, although you can fudge that a little. As for between the eyes, you generally want either an inverted V or a squared off notch between the eyes. This is partly personal preference and partly the dog--squared off creates more stop if the dog doesn't have much of one; inverted V adds a little length to the face visually. I'm attaching two photos that might help. In the photo of the two, you can see that I like a "visor" topknot that overhangs the head a bit, but hopefully you can see that there is something shaved between the eyes (but NEVER above the eyes, or your dog will look like a surprised monkey). In the second photo, Phoebe was being silly and wanted a little band in her hair because Parker was getting them.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

It should be like this.  Or like D below. C is used (by pet groomers and show handlers alike) to create the illusion of a longer foreface.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Or this. And the side should be done like #1.


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## pizzapizazz (Apr 13, 2016)

Thanks for the input! Just to be clear, with an inverted V, do you mean the the point of the V would be pointing to the top of the head, or pointed to the nose? I assume you mean the top of the head. I realize now my doodle makes it look as though I meant shaving above the eyes themselves, which I know better than to do, but your analogy had me laughing!! Your two are gorgeous!


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## pizzapizazz (Apr 13, 2016)

Thank you for drawing over my pictures, CharismaticMillie! That is very helpful.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

pizzapizazz said:


> Thanks for the input! Just to be clear, with an inverted V, do you mean the the point of the V would be pointing to the top of the head, or pointed to the nose? I assume you mean the top of the head. I realize now my doodle makes it look as though I meant shaving above the eyes themselves, which I know better than to do, but your analogy had me laughing!! Your two are gorgeous!


Yep, the point of the V can be as high as the top of the eye, but no higher. The sides (from ear to eye) and the beginning and end of the v should be in line with the corner of the eye.


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## pizzapizazz (Apr 13, 2016)

Thanks for specifying that for me.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Here is where I will recommend this book...........'Poodle Clipping and Grooming, An International Reference by Shirlee Kalstone' It's kinda considered the 'bible' on poodle grooming! You can get a used copy on Amazon or Alibris!!! 
I know many of us here have read this from cover to cover and learned much!!!!! LOL!
Happy Poodle grooming!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Here's a video that might help. The feet take a long time to demonstrate but you can fast forward if you want to once you get the idea and eventually, she'll show the face. I love all her videos...very good, very helpful. I also like how she handles a dog.

As far as conditioning your pup to hold still, make the practice (token) sessions short. Feed good treats frequently as you work. Try to catch her during a second of standing nicely and reinforce that. Keep your expectations realistic at first. Just gradually increase the pressure on her. If force is used or anyone gets too frustrated, it will make it so much more difficult down the road. So, ease into it as best you can. You don't have to do the whole thing in one sitting. Good luck!


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Utube has some really good videos on trimming all parts of the poodles, I have watched hours of them


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Oh for God's sake! I was trying to be helpful by posting this video and I told you all about how wonderful it is and forgot to post the link. So here it is for real this time. I guess no one noticed it looks like. haha.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

I would totally invest in a grooming arm and noose!!! It helped 10 fold with my puppy! I felt like my husband just made things worse, got in the way with his hands, bunched the skin up holding him still instead of taunt skin for nice shaving, etc. If he did help, I would make him the treat dispenser only.  
Plus it helped Luke learn to be still on the table and not dance, turn, want to jump off. 

And don't freak out when your puppy quickly jerks her head and you accidentally shave up the side of her face!  Or like when my boy moved his head quick when I was scissoring his topknot (even though I was holding his nose) and took a big chunk out! Silly puppies!


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## Caddy (Nov 23, 2014)

I was told by the breeder I got Dolly, when doing the face of a puppy hold both ears in one hand behind the pups head and they will be still. I tried it and it worked, just hold them gently and not tight and see if it helps you. After a few times like that Dolly excepted the process and realized it wasn't going to hurt her. I still treat my girls while I groom to reinforce that this is a good thing, and when it's time to brush they race to get up on the table first.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Have never needed a grooming arm or noose for my poodles or for others I've groomed. I've groomed friends' puppies before as well as my own. I firmly (but gently) hold them still. They learn pretty quickly.  (Although, because of that, in the event that I will need to take my poodles to a pro groomer, I avoid groomers who will use a noose on them, as they aren't at all conditioned to its use.) At 3 weeks of age, I start my own pups on the table. They learn from a very young age.


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## pizzapizazz (Apr 13, 2016)

Wow! Thank you so much everyone for your help!! There are some wonderful tips and suggestions, I will definitely try them. My boyfriend was actually going to get me a grooming table over the summer - then I broke my arm so it got put on hold for a while, and is now on the back burner. Poppy was started with shaving her FFT at 4 weeks old, she's just such a wiggle worm! She actually does wonderfully for her feet and tail, but the face freaks her out. I will just keep trying. The groomer who I use does not use a noose, so that should be no problem. Once she has all her shots, I will be bringing her in for some IRL tips, which I'm sure will be so much help. Until then, we're just going to work a little bit every day. I know she'll catch on. Today she let me dremel her nails with no complaints, I was so proud  
Thanks again everyone!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

So, what surface is she on when you groom her? Just being up on a grooming table solves a lot of wiggle issues. I really don't think a poodle should need a grooming noose!


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

> I really don't think a poodle should need a grooming noose!


Just curious why you don't seem so like them so much? I never used one with my first poodle Riley. I started Draco without one, but after about a month decided to get one. I started Luke without one (because I couldn't find it as I don't use it anymore with Draco). I quickly decided to put it back up though. It really did help keep them still more so they didn't back off the table or think they could jump (even though I was Right there the whole time). I like it and eventually don't have to use it anymore. I obviously never leave them unattended on the table.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I use the noose if needed but always have it available


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

bigpoodleperson said:


> Just curious why you don't seem so like them so much? I never used one with my first poodle Riley. I started Draco without one, but after about a month decided to get one. I started Luke without one (because I couldn't find it as I don't use it anymore with Draco). I quickly decided to put it back up though. It really did help keep them still more so they didn't back off the table or think they could jump (even though I was Right there the whole time). I like it and eventually don't have to use it anymore. I obviously never leave them unattended on the table.


Oops! Didn't mean for it to come off that way. To clarify: I just don't think it's necessary, particularly with a poodle. They are groomed regularly enough and are definitely smart enough that it's quite simple to teach them to stand still and to stay on a grooming table.  I also find that they get in the way.


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