# Feeding Raw!



## kmart (Apr 28, 2015)

I have read through sooooo many threads here on this subject, and I have decided that raw is a good plan for me right now. There is a ton of information though, some of it conflicting, and I hope I'm not imposing by asking for some specifics. 
For reference, I have a 30 pound, 5 month old mixed herding breed. I've been feeding raw for about 4 days. Hopefully I'll be a pro by the time I get my spoo! 

1) Ground meat. I read that ground beef is not the best to feed. Is that the same for all other meats? How about if I grind it myself? It is my understanding that there isn't a lot of nutritional value in store bought ground beef, but I have some home-ground venison in my freezer that I'd like to use if possible. 

2) Bones. Are all non-weight-bearing bones okay? Or just poultry/small animal bones? Or only poultry bones? Or all bones are okay with supervision? I have read all three. Also: Eggshells? Do they need to be completely processed? Should I give them at all?

3) Sourcing. Is all meat okay as long as it's not so old it's rotting? Butchers, box stores, hunted venison, and old freezer burned meat that's about to be tossed are all places I've seen people get meat.

4) Supplements. I see this is a very controversial issue. Right now, Kallie is getting pre-made raw (Northwest Naturals), chicken necks, and raw goats milk (Answers). When I start feeding home-prepared raw, I don't think I'm going to add much non-meat. Possible a small amount of fruit and veg simply because she likes them, and I don't think it can hurt. But do I need to buy supplements/powders? 

I might just continue with the pre-made stuff for a while, because it's easiest. I'm just so happy that she hasn't had a trace of diarrhea for the past four days. She even pooped out a large amount of cat hair she ate at work with no issues. 
Again, I know this has all been asked before, but I'm trying to get a good concentration of answers that are as non-conflicting as possible. I think I might have done almost too much research and really confused myself.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

I don't think ground beef is any worse than anything else. Grinding it yourself is not going to be much better than store bought -- and will save you the work and buying a grinder. Look for grass fed, free range beef.
You can also use ground turkey, chicken, pork and venison and bison and lamb and fishes. Look for the least processed and the non- grain fed as best you can. 

Look into sources for raw feeders. If you google for your area you might find a source who can provide you with safe, healthy, organic or free range grinds which you can feed with confidence.

Bones should be non-weight bearing. Chicken, turkey duck and many lamb bones will work. Also pork necks, turkey and chicken necks, beef and pork ribs. Beef trachea is also a great addition. It is not bone, bt it is a great tooth workout, and is also a good source of joint health nutrients.

Egg shell or whole eggs are often cited as good things to feed. I haven't done so but I understand it is a good thing to use if you want to and if you are concerned about calcium. Raw green tripe will provide a balanced ratio, so if you can find a provider of green tripe, that would be an excellent addition to your dog's diet.

I use a mixture of raw meaty bone, raw grinds and Honest Kitchen base mix for most of Dulcie's meals. I use only about 1/3 cup of the HK base mix per day. I found that it was something that seemed to satisfy something in her which stopped foraging behavior when out and about.

Good luck with your raw feeding!

ETA I would not use old freezer burned meat that is about to be tossed for my dog! Generally, I would advise you to go with the highest quality raw meat that you can find for your dog. I don't mean filet mignon -- I mean quality in freshness and quality sourcing. Fresh, free range and non-grain fed is best.


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

I am very new to feeding raw myself, but I will tell you what I'm doing for Hans in case it helps. His diet right now is 50% either Ziwipeak (air dried food) or Wysong kibble and 50% homemade balanced raw. The only reason I'm not doing all raw is that we do travel with him on a regular basis, and when we travel he will need to eat kibble. 

For the raw portion, I'm doing mostly ground that I grind myself, except right now I have some organic grass fed ground beef from my local co op...it was ground too fine by mistake and they sold it to me at a discount since they didn't want to sell it to their regular human customers. Of course I've mixed in other stuff to balance it out, but it's great meat from a great source so I'm sure it's fine. My reason for feeding mostly ground meat/bone/organs is that Hans is a retriever. He isn't even allowed to (and really doesn't want to) rip up toys, because I don't want him to learn to rip up birds. I'm afraid if I feed him too much stuff that still resembles animals, he might damage birds or try to eat them rather than fetch them. 

I do give him eggs, since my mom has chickens. I just toss whole eggs in my vitamix, shells and all. 

I do also give him Wysong C Biotic powder on his food which he loves, and it makes me worry less about him missing something. I may also start supplementing Omega 3 and vitamin E...I'm still working that out since I just started this.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

People have issues with ground beef because of issues like pink slime. 70 Percent of Ground Beef at Supermarkets Contains 'Pink Slime' - ABC News

There is nothing wrong with ground meat especially if you grind it yourself so it is not adulterated. All non weight bearing bones should be OK. I see no need to feed a variety of different types of bone as I don't believe the nutritional content is different. Many people feed exclusively poultry bones as they are easy to access and relatively inexpensive. I think it is best to feed meat fit for human consumption. I don't think supplements are necessary although I occasionally will add some. I feed pre made raw for convenience but keep in mind packaged dog food is relatively new and people have been feeding their dogs raw for centuries.


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## Coldbrew (Jun 17, 2015)

I made the decision a few days ago to "half and half" raw with kibble. I'm already noticing tartar buildup on Jasper's teeth despite daily brushing, and I know chewing bones can help reduce buildup. He's not really a chewer of anything else (he prefers to shred paper substances) so I think if he had to in order to eat that it might help.

I'm going to be feeding about 55% EVO Red Meat kibble, 40% chicken quarters and and 5% ground beef/turkey/other meat. Jasper's not allergic to any proteins that I know of (just wheat), but chicken is the cheapest and easiest source for me. I'm alternating days between kibble and raw (with a wee bit of kibble). There's anecdotal evidence that this can be bad for digestion but ive done it before with both dogs and the handle it fine. It appears to be an individual dog thing from what Ive gathered, though many sources will tell you otherwise. 

I also travel with the dogs fairly often, and want the convenience of kibble for them and for me. Just my two cents on switching! 

as for sources: I just go by - if I wouldn't eat it I won't feed it to my animals. 
All bones but weight bearing bones are okay from what I understand.


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## kmart (Apr 28, 2015)

Thank you all SO much for the replies. They've helped immensely. 

As far as feeding partly kibble, I certainly may do that in the future. For whatever reason, Kallie just gets diarrhea and had started throwing up whenever she eats the kibble that I switched her to (Acana) and her stool has always been sort of loose so it's been exhausting for both of us. It's such a relief to not have to deal with that, especially when I take her to work with me. 

I'm finding it more manageable financially to feed raw, as well. It may be more expensive in the long run, but it's easier than buying an $60+ bag of food that lasts less than a month. 

Please, keep the replies coming. You're all so helpful!


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## lulupoopkins (Apr 8, 2016)

I'm also new to raw feeding (Right now I'm doing homecooked meals). I've been wanting to do half raw half kibble though because I'm not completely 100% giving my dogs raw food just yet... However I've read a few things online saying not to mix dry foods and raw food since their stomachs have a different enzyme that breaks down the dry foods and raw foods. If you mix it they have trouble digesting because raw goes faster than dry and stomach acids needed to break down the bones, are not absorbed by the dry food. 

(I've also seen some people on youtube grind up everything including bones from a chicken as well.. crazy!)

But just keep a watch on their stool, their teeth, their mood. If your dogs are digesting fine with kibble and raw then it should be fine I'd say! Also I don't think feeding them raw without a supplement would be enough. We always add NutriVet with their meals


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I have found DogAware.com: Diet & Health Info for Man's Best Friend a very useful, research-based source of information. I feed mainly balanced ground meat (80% muscle, 10% bone, 10% organs), with chicken wings and other meat as it is available. Green tripe is excellent if you can cope with the smell. Ground egg shells are a useful source of calcium if you are not feeding bones. Oily fish (sprats, sardines, mackerel, salmon, etc) balances the diet, plus eggs, cottage cheese and (although there is some debate about how necessary they are) cooked or pureed vegetables and fruit. If you have a dog prone to diarrhoea I would be careful about the quantity of organ meat, and of green leafy vegetables, both of which give mine the squits if they get too much.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

*my 2 cents*

Hello everyone,
I've been feeding my spoo's raw for a couple months now. Here is what I've noticed. At first all I fed was chicken, mostly drumsticks. That led to some coughing and some vomiting. Not a lot but I would see small pieces of bone in the vomit. I also noticed a distinct increase in how "yeasty" they smelled. I cut back on the chicken and began to add more variety. Ground beef, rice, cottage cheese, yogurt ,beef heart, more raw meaty bones, ground turkey, canned mackerel, eggs and green tripe. The tripe does smell but I keep it frozen until use. I buy it online in 5 lb logs. I use a band saw to cut it up into portions and thaw as needed. They seem to like it. 
The thing about raw is cost and convenience. I've yet to settle into a routine that makes feeding easy. I'm always thawing meals in the morning, if I remember, or dashing off to the market to get something when I don't. Kibble is easy but I do like the pro's of raw as opposed to the seemingly constant recalls on every brand of kibble. I'm convinced all manufactures of dog food do not have your pets best interest at heart. Like so many things in this world it's all about turning a profit. They spend a ton of money on marketing and let you deal with sick animals. Sorry, just venting there.
Of course this conundrum isn't just animal related. Just try seeking out a doctor you can rely on for yourself and you may have quite a time finding one. Oops, got sidetracked again.
All in all raw seems good but I've become a bit challenged by the transition.
I'm on the fence and will continue to feed raw until I take a closer look at actual cost. Until then I just wanted to weigh in. My girls are happy and get regular exercise and they are a huge part of my life. Just wish I was eating as good as them. lol except the whole smelly green tripe thing!
best regards,
Jcris


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

The reason a lot of raw feeders, including myself don't use ground meats is sometimes two-fold. For me, I prefer my dogs to get the benefit of something that simulates what they'd do if they ate an animal they killed or found out in the woods. I think there's a certain pleasure in that natural ripping and tearing activity...the chewing of bones that they have to work a little for their food. I think larger hunks of meat strengthens their jaws. They don't find ground meat in nature. The 2nd reason is, although dogs are quite well able to handle most bacteria in raw meat, the odds of higher concentrations are increased in ground meat because of the way it's processed. I wouldn't worry about that so much if you're grinding your own hunted wild meat. (venison)

Depending on the size of your dog, I think that dictates what bones they can handle. But you're right...no weight bearing bones...too dense. Some of the smaller animal bones even worry me. But I'm not that seasoned of a raw feeder yet. Those on the prey model diet forum I visit assure me that those sharp rabbit bones are nothing to fear. The first time I fed them, I took some of those away and swapped them for chicken bones. The 2nd time, I held my breath and fed them. It all turned out fine, just as those people said. But mostly I feed small chicken bones, often with very little meat on them. So then, I put into their bowl some muscle meat of various types, organ meat, alternating beef liver and another organ meat daily. I aim to balance each meal and they're fed one meal a day. (reasons for that too) For my pip squeak dogs, I found that balancing each meal rather than over time works better for their tiny bodies. But that, of course is something one can experiment with to see what works best for your dog. Once or twice a week they get whole, fresh sardines...rarely canned. And if they're canned, I make sure they're the ones in water and if they say sodium on the can, they should be rinsed off. Too much salt is not good for dogs. They don't handle it as well as we do. (kidneys etc) I also look for chicken that is not enhanced with "broth." That is basically salt and LOTS of it. Foster Farms does not "plump" their chickens. Tyson does. (for example) Best, of course to get free range chicken from a local farmer. 

If you feed a balanced prey model diet of the best quality you can find, there is no need for supplementing with store bought vitamins imo. One exception might be a good quality fish or krill oil. But still...feed your dog wild, fresh fish once or twice a week. (not salmon from the Pacific northwest) I get fresh, whole sardines, along with raw green tripe and a few other things from https://hare-today.com/

Speaking of raw green tripe. I include a little bit of this in every meal. The Stink On Tripe- For Your Dog - Dogs Naturally Magazine Amazing!

Egg shells are fine but if they're store bought, even organic, I've read that they put mineral oil on them to make them look better. This is a petroleum product and not healthy. So, I will save some egg shells and boil them for 20-30 minutes, dry them, then run them through my Vita Mix and put a pinch on Jose`'s food. He's my old dog that can't seem to chew up bones. But lately, I've changed to putting bones (little ones) in my Vita Mix, as per conversation with demo guy at Costco who said that machine can grind up bones. So, trepidation aside, I went ahead with it and Viola`! It works. I think the nutrition is much, much, much better in bones than egg shells, though a pinch of egg shells are good for calcium when I'm in a _pinch. 
_

Anytime you can find organic, grass fed meat or free range chickens and their eggs, that is superior because they contain more omegas and amino acids etc. So if you can find a farmer or you hunt, a butcher to save things for you, that would be super.

So along with feeding and learning what to feed, sourcing can be a challenge too.

I go on a prey model diet forum which, for the past couple days has been offline. But those people are very helpful as well and not judgmental if you decide to feed vegetables too. There is a lot of controversy about that. I'm finding in my research that dogs don't need carbs. And too many carbs are really harmful to the pancreas. However, that said, I still feed 1/2 tspo-1 tsp of pureed vegetables just in case I guess. I've read a lot about how their systems work and how they're just not well designed to metabolize or use fruits and vegetables. They can....up to a point because of certain enzymes they have in a small amount but because they don't have these enzymes where they count, those carbs are handled only in the pancreas. So I'm still a little shaky on that aspect of the diet. Those people who feed a prey model diet, a diet designed to mimic what canines eat in the wild do not feed vegetables, fruits and most certainly not grain. Too many carbs make absorption or utilization of _essential_ nutrients blocked for a canine. (apparently) While dogs and wolves will eat a few berries and a little grass at times, it is thought that it is mainly for the taste or that there's nothing else at the moment to eat. It is not a significant dietary need for a canine. If the bone, meat and organ meat is balanced, their bowel movements should be fine...firm, small, but not too hard. When my dogs get a little too hard, I back off of the bone and/or increase the meat and/or organ meat.

So, I think it's wonderful that you're doing this. I truly believe that commercial food is not great and not something dogs and other canines were designed to eat and process. They get by, yes. I've even had dogs live long lives when they ate kibble. In other words, it didn't kill them. But some kibbles have killed dogs. (Beneful) Anyhow, keep on learning. Never think that asking questions is imposing. If someone doesn't want to answer, they won't. If someone likes to yak a lot, they will. haha.:act-up:


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## kmart (Apr 28, 2015)

I knew you'd have some great resources for me PB  

I sure wish the shipping from Hare-Today cost a little less! I am hopefully going to be able to source some more things locally. I'll have to make some phone calls later this week- crossing my fingers that I can find some tripe, sardines, and goat.

Good note about eggshells. I'm hoping to raise chickens and possibly rabbits within the next year or so. 

I sure do like the convenience of the Northwest Naturals chubs! I may continue using those as part of her diet. 

Also, I've heard this said by others who started their dogs on raw, but holy cow does Kallie like her food! I've never seen her really get excited about dinner. She used to eat a few pieces of kibble, then wander to and from the bowl for about half an hour to finish it. Now, she gobbles it all up. 

Oh! Another question. Kallie is pretty good at self-regulating her meals, but I'm not sure how much I should be feeding her. I have an idea from the Northwest Naturals website, but does anyone have a good estimate of how much a 5 month old, 30 pound, active dog should be eating? She got a little chubby there for a few days, but now she's pretty bony and I don't know if that is a growth spurt or if I should be feeding her more.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I feed four percent of Swizzle's body weight.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

kmart said:


> I knew you'd have some great resources for me PB
> 
> I sure wish the shipping from Hare-Today cost a little less! I am hopefully going to be able to source some more things locally. I'll have to make some phone calls later this week- crossing my fingers that I can find some tripe, sardines, and goat.
> 
> ...



That is sooooo my dogs too! They would eat a few bites, leave, maybe come back, a couple more pieces. But they spin around and act like lunatics when I am carrying their bowls...so undignified. lol. 

I know what you mean. My little munchkins started getting a little chubby there because they loved it so much and though I started out weighing, that didn't last. I think it was 2.5 or something like that percent of their weight. I don't even remember now how it goes. Anyhow, I just cut them back a bit like I've always done....cut back or add a little and just watch the condition in the next couple weeks. Jose` started looking a little thin. His bones kind of stick up on his back due to arthritis but he just didn't quite look like he had enough meat on him on his sides so I increased his food a little, which he had no objection to. lol. So it's a balancing act. You can increase everything a little bit. I give them a raw egg about every other morning for a snack. That's a little extra something. 

I think that is super cool that you'll be raising your own chickens and rabbits. 

I don't trust commercial food too much. They're making it not because they love our dogs, but because it's a business and they need to make money. I also don't trust our government organizations that supposedly monitor the quality. I do keep a bag of Nature's Variety on hand just in case someone is taking care of my dogs. Then they can just grab a handful of that and they're good to go. It's complicated and a hassle for someone to fix a meal the way I do.

Also, I don't think dogs need all those carbohydrates and though the fruits and vegetables the commercial raw foods have in them are indeed nutritious (for humans) dogs don't need carbohydrates and can't utilize them very effectively. That is my opinion from what I've learned so far. Maybe it will turn out that I'm wrong. But for now, I only give a little big of pureed vegetables, like a half tsp for my tiny dogs, just for some extra fiber. But it's probably not necessary. They do fine without too. I just have to regulate the bone, meat and organs. Anyhow, either way...I think it's the best nutrition. Keep us posted on how it all goes and if your fella puts a little weight back on.


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