# How's this home-made raw menu?



## lwm1984 (Apr 15, 2012)

I am about to switch from Nature's Variety pre-made raw to home-made. I just bought everything in the grocery store, and then packaged them into freezer bags for the month. It was about $90 for 30 days, but this is about 1/2 the price of the pre-made stuff. Next month I'll try to find some cheaper sources in the spirit of bargain hunting.

At any rate, how does this weekly menu look (spoo is 40 pounds, and I'm feeding 1 pound per day in a single serving):

Sunday: Chicken leg quarters
Monday: Whole fish (with bones), plus baked sweet potato
Tuesday: Turkey necks, chicken gizzards and hearts
Wednesday: Ground beef, crushed egg, sweet potato
Thursday: Chicken backs or quarters, hearts
Friday: RMB (this month pork ribs and chicken drumsticks)
Saturday: Turkey necks

There are no issues with feeding fish bones? Fish heads? Pork ribs? She chews her chicken bones really well, but fish seems sharp, and pork seems a lot harder. Do I just defrost in the sink overnight? With the NVI i was defrosting in the refrigerator.


----------



## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I have not ever feed fish or pork bones, so don't know about that. I defrost in the frig, but I think outside over night would be fine. I think your menu is great. Carley is a bit bigger at 50 pounds and I do feed her a bit more in two meals per day. Today she had a Chicken Quarter for her morning meal and just now she had a small Turkey neck , 3/4 c of tripe and 3 small pieces of left over(cooked) pork tenderlion. 

Would love to hear all the other "raw feeders" menu for today to compare. Be sure to include the size of your dog. Thanks!


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Whole fish could be a problem. Are they gutted? Fins, and fish hooks are a concern. I don't feed whole fish because of those now. If you're feeding raw fish, make sure you have a good deworming schedule. Talk to your vet about it. We went fishing over the weekend and caught a panfish with 6 inches of tapeworm hanging out it's butt. Gross! Ocean fish can carry parasites that are not affected by regular dewormeds like Pyrantel Pamoate. Talk to your vet about that. 

Some raw feeders feed canned mackerel 1 or 2 days a week without calcium supplement. This might be an alternative to whole raw fish.

Pork neck bones are less safe than other pieces of pork. The bones are irregular and more likely to cause problems if a dog gulps. My fiance (a vet) cringes when I feed it. But if your dog doesn't gulp bones, it's not a problem. Just be aware of your dog's eating style. 

Some people have problems with feeding pork. Some deep freeze it for weeks. My fiance says that home freezers don't get cold enough to affect the parasite in question. Som dogs will get mucousy poop if they eat too much pork, particularly pork heart. I have not found any evidence that it's harmful, but definietly unpleasant to pick up!

Your cuts of meat look good for bone/calcium. The ground beef day will be deficient even with egg shells. But, the necks and backs days will have extra calcium. No need to worry about it if you're feeding an adult dog.

You do need to add other ingredients for vitamins and microminerals. Small amounts of cooked vegetables, for example. If you're not ready to do this yet, you can get supplements for going with raw diet. The Honest Kitchen has Preference. Solid Gold makes Seameal. And Nature's Variety Instinct Raw Daily Boost is out there too. Probably many more that I don't know about!

I divide raw into 2 - 3 pound bags for a dog that size. About 3 day's worth. When there is 1 day left of food in the dag, I grab another from the freezer and thaw it in the fridge. (I feed the same thing 3 days in a row.)


You've done your homework! Good job! When you find your dog's favorite foods you can buy them in 30 to 40 pound cases from a meat market. It's usually half the price of grocery stores. You can get the meat market to portion it out into smaller bags too. It's not so fun to thaw out 40 pounds of raw meat in the bathtub!


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would also be adding some offal - a small quantity of liver in particular.


----------



## lwm1984 (Apr 15, 2012)

Thanks for all the info, everyone! The fish are currently not gutted, but I can easily do that. I cut them into thirds since they were a few pounds each and the guts kind of spilled out anyway. I think I'll go with the canned fish in the future. Is it safe to feed sushi grade tuna or salmon? Not like she is going to get that very often at $30/lb, but we buy it ourselves to make our own sashimi on occasion. 

I'm paranoid about the pork now. I only got like 6 ribs from the grocery freezer. Should I just eliminate those and replace them with another RMB? Can you suggest what kinds of cooked veggies and in what quantities?

I was going to get some liver, but neither of the grocery stores I went to had any today. Weird. 

I think I'm going to invest in a chest freezer. My food occupies 1 shelf, and my spoo takes up the other 6 shelves!


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I believe the main concerns with raw pork are Trichinosis and Aujezky's disease. Neither of these are an issue in the UK, and you should also be safe in the US if you buy safely reared pork, although I would avoid wild or feral animals, and be wary in countries where either problem is endemic. If in doubt, barbecue the ribs for yourselves, and choose something else for the dog!

There is a lot of debate as to whether vegetables are necessary or not - mine get a bit, on the basis of they may do them some good, and should do them no harm. They also spend less time hunting for rabbit berries and dried sheep poop if there is some greenery in their dinner! Dogs cannot digest cellulose, so fruit and vegetables need to be either cooked or liquidised. I use a mixture of several vegetables - a little cabbage or spinach, not too much as it can have a dire effect on Sophy, plus carrots, sweet potatoes, peas, green beans, cauliflower, broccoli, parsley etc. No onions, no grapes, no raisins - all are potentially dangerous.


----------



## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I don't feed raw pork at all. You can get beef ribs, Carley loves them. Most of the time beef liver is frozen when you buy it. That may be why you did not find it ... I don't feed veggies either , but I do feed tripe and eggs. I also give Carley a daily vit.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Raw pork is a staple for my dogs. I have not heard of any issues with raw pork from USDA approved sources in regular grocery stores in the US.


----------



## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

don't feed raw salmon. it's very dangerous.


----------



## lwm1984 (Apr 15, 2012)

faerie said:


> don't feed raw salmon. it's very dangerous.


Thanks. It's a good thing you posted this, since I didn't know about salmon poisoning disease. I eat raw salmon quite a bit, and I had no idea it could be harmful to my spoo.


----------



## Arcticfox (Dec 12, 2011)

faerie said:


> don't feed raw salmon. it's very dangerous.


Why is that?


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Arcticfox said:


> Why is that?


Ocean fish can carry nasty parasites. It also contains an enzyme that breaks down B vitamins. Fed consistently over time it could lead to a vitamin deficiency.

I would not call it "very dangerous" but I won't feed it to my dog or recommend it be fed to others' dogs.


----------



## Arcticfox (Dec 12, 2011)

Even sushi grade salmon? Wont that be a concern for people, too?


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Arcticfox said:


> Even sushi grade salmon? Wont that be a concern for people, too?


I just edited my last post to add the other comment. Had to verify with the vet before I posted.


----------



## Arcticfox (Dec 12, 2011)

"It also contains an enzyme that breaks down B vitamins. Fed consistently over time it could lead to a vitamin deficiency."

Hmm interesting. So what about all the kibble out there that have salmon (acana pacifica)? And salmon oil supplements (omega 3 supplements)?


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

Arcticfox said:


> "It also contains an enzyme that breaks down B vitamins. Fed consistently over time it could lead to a vitamin deficiency."
> 
> Hmm interesting. So what about all the kibble out there that have salmon (acana pacifica)? And salmon oil supplements (omega 3 supplements)?


The difference is that it's cooked. And apparently the oil doesn't contain the enzyme? "The vet" is very engrossed in a TV show, so I don't want to interrupt again.  :lol:


----------



## lwm1984 (Apr 15, 2012)

Well, the home-made raw diet has been good and bad so far. Her poops are a bit dry and crumbly as compared to the Nature's Variety Instinct. I think I need to decrease the bone content, right? Or should I wait a few weeks and see if this balances out? She doesn't seem constipated.

I need some advice on the non-meat ingredients, though. My spoo won't eat anything that doesn't come from a dead animal. She just plain refuses to have anything to do with the sweet potatoes (they are baked, skinned, and quite mushy), and she didn't finish all of her fish (left a small bit, which never happens with her other food, but she did eats all the bones). Tomorrow is her first ground beef, egg, and sweet potato meal, all of which I combined into a single patty. That should be interesting. Is there something I can try instead of the sweet potatoes? Are those only included to keep the stool regular, or do they serve a more nutritive function? Can I just switch the fish to another land-based protein, and then supplement with some fish oil soft gels?


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

lwm1984 said:


> Well, the home-made raw diet has been good and bad so far. Her poops are a bit dry and crumbly as compared to the Nature's Variety Instinct. I think I need to decrease the bone content, right? Or should I wait a few weeks and see if this balances out? She doesn't seem constipated.
> 
> I need some advice on the non-meat ingredients, though. My spoo won't eat anything that doesn't come from a dead animal. She just plain refuses to have anything to do with the sweet potatoes (they are baked, skinned, and quite mushy), and she didn't finish all of her fish (left a small bit, which never happens with her other food, but she did eats all the bones). Tomorrow is her first ground beef, egg, and sweet potato meal, all of which I combined into a single patty. That should be interesting. Is there something I can try instead of the sweet potatoes? Are those only included to keep the stool regular, or do they serve a more nutritive function? Can I just switch the fish to another land-based protein, and then supplement with some fish oil soft gels?


Keep trying new foods. For now, get beef liver which is rich in vitamins. It sounds like green tripe woud be an excellent vitamin source for your dog! You can use a tablet or powder supplement and put it under the skin of chicken/poultry. 

Try some of these:
canned pumpkin (100% pumpkin, NOT pie filling)
canned veggies (like 2 tablespoons a day)
berries
an apple slice or core
a raw egg (some dogs eat the shells)
mix supplement powder into plain yogurt
some dogs like a teaspoon of white vinegar over their veggies

Raw poops are hard. If she's not struggling to pass them, it's fine. If she is struggling to pass them, feed your lower bone percentage foods for a couple days. (not necks or backs). Feed more organ meat which is "loosening". And try canned pumpkin which is excellent for relieving constipation in raw fed dogs.


----------



## lwm1984 (Apr 15, 2012)

tortoise said:


> Raw poops are hard. If she's not struggling to pass them, it's fine. If she is struggling to pass them, feed your lower bone percentage foods for a couple days. (not necks or backs). Feed more organ meat which is "loosening". And try canned pumpkin which is excellent for relieving constipation in raw fed dogs.


Thanks. Yeah, I'm used to the hard poops; they were always pretty firm on the pre-made. Today, though, they were lighter in color, and basically just crumbled as I went to pick them up. They are almost powdery, but she isn't struggling at all.

I'll look into the green tripe. The ethnic market near me sells tripe, although I'm not sure if it's the green variety or not.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

What Faerie means is that uncooked salmon from certain parts of the world (Pacific Northwest) can cause Salmon Poisoning - a fatal condition in dogs if left untreated.

The general recommendation is to not feed salmon to dogs unless it has been thoroughly cooked. Some people feel comfortable deep freezing salmon.

http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/digestive/c_dg_salmon_poisoning_disease#.T_M_v3As47A
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/cliented/salmon.aspx


----------



## tortoise (Feb 5, 2012)

lwm1984 said:


> Thanks. Yeah, I'm used to the hard poops; they were always pretty firm on the pre-made. Today, though, they were lighter in color, and basically just crumbled as I went to pick them up. They are almost powdery, but she isn't struggling at all.
> 
> I'll look into the green tripe. The ethnic market near me sells tripe, although I'm not sure if it's the green variety or not.


If it smells like cow poop, it is green. The object is to get your dog to eat some of the cow's stomach contents.  It's seriously disgusting, but dogs love it. Don't feed it indoors!

You can get it canned for dogs and it is less disgusting that way. (I used to go to the butcher and bring home a section of cow stomach to process at home, lol)

Raw diet poops the way your diet goes will be close to white and crumbly. You'll never have to pick up dog poop in your yard again!


----------



## Clicker (Apr 28, 2012)

lwm1984 said:


> how does this weekly menu look (spoo is 40 pounds, and I'm feeding 1 pound per day in a single serving):
> 
> Sunday: Chicken leg quarters
> Monday: Whole fish (with bones), plus baked sweet potato
> ...





Carley's Mom said:


> Would love to hear all the other "raw feeders" menu for today to compare. Be sure to include the size of your dog. Thanks!


Please other raw feeders, post your menus such as lwm1984 did. As Carley's Mom said, please include the size of your dog. I realize this may take a while to type but, a monthly schedule would be awesome! This would would help myself and others that are considering switching to raw.


----------



## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I think this would be helpful to us all ! 

This morning my 50lb spoo had 3/4 lb of beef cube steak and a small piece of beef liver . Later today, she will have a large chicken breast (no bone, no skin), raw egg and a 1/2 c of canned tripe.

I have thawing for tom. a turkey neck, chicken organ meat and another chicken breast.

Also, if I am not wrong... a puppy will need more food than my 7 year old girl. Someone correct me if this is not correct.


----------



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

My toys (around 8 - 9 lbs) get two meals a day. They each get:

Meal 1: half a chicken wing, or similar size lamb or pork riblet
Meal 2: Approximately 50g/1.75 ounces cooked mix of minced meat (usually a combination of four pounds of two or more of chicken, turkey, rabbit, beef and one pound mixed offal/heart) and cooked mixed vegetables. Mix is about 90% meat, 10% veg. OR 50g Salmon and rice fish cakes.
Meal 3: 50g raw green tripe

If they are getting too plump, I reduce the size of the meals a little, and cut back on treats.

Occasional meals: half a can of sardines, a scrambled egg, meat table scraps, lamb bone, etc.

Treats: Home made liver cake, liver biscotti, chicken cake, etc - not more than 20g each a day.


----------



## lwm1984 (Apr 15, 2012)

A bit of a diet update. My spoo's last two poops were covered in clear jelly/mucus. Also, she was gagging a bit last night, but didn't throw up, just making these noises like she was trying to make herself throw up. She seems fine otherwise. 

The only thing she ate in the 24 hours prior to the last two poops were some turkey necks. Could they possibly have been upsetting her digestive system?


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

lwm1984 said:


> A bit of a diet update. My spoo's last two poops were covered in clear jelly/mucus. Also, she was gagging a bit last night, but didn't throw up, just making these noises like she was trying to make herself throw up. She seems fine otherwise.
> 
> The only thing she ate in the 24 hours prior to the last two poops were some turkey necks. Could they possibly have been upsetting her digestive system?


The mucuous is normal in a dog that is just being introduced to raw. 

The gagging sounds like her system just isn't used to digesting that much bone yet. I wouldn't worry too much about it, though I might give some Slippery Elm Bark to coat the digestive system. A turkey neck is incredibly bone heavy and probably is just more bone than she can "easily" digest right now. How large (in ounces) was this turkey neck?


----------



## lwm1984 (Apr 15, 2012)

She had two that were maybe around 7oz each. 

How long do you think it will be before she gets fully adjusted to her diet? I haven't given her any kibble since early May. Of course, prior to the last week or so she was getting the pre-made stuff.


----------



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

lwm1984 said:


> She had two that were maybe around 7oz each.
> 
> How long do you think it will be before she gets fully adjusted to her diet? I haven't given her any kibble since early May. Of course, prior to the last week or so she was getting the pre-made stuff.


It takes several months before they can fully/efficiently digest whole raw bones. They adjust to premade pretty quickly because the bone is already ground up. 

Did you give two 7 oz. turkey necks in one meal? That's a lot of bone in general, and especially a lot for a dog that is new to eating raw bone. Turkey bone is "harder" than chicken bones. Next time I'd give one turkey neck and some boneless meat with it instead of another turkey neck.


----------



## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

you can also do like me and offer grind w/bone. i'm a bit of a chicken offering whole bones with all 5 dogs as i can't monitor very well and i have 2 bolters.. (some say to feed them in their crates, but i have only 1 crate set up at the moment as we don't crate the puppers here).


also, in reference to the salmon:
canned salmon is fine. and freezing before serving doesn't work because our freezers aren't cold enough generally to kill the greblies.

so i just offer it canned or pick up canned mackerel which is a bit cheaper and is another oily fish.


----------



## Bronson Bear (Jun 29, 2011)

My dog is not a poo but is 42lbs and fed a raw diet. I weighed all his food in the beginning but do not now, good at eyeballing it. He eats a little less than 1lb of breakfast.

I do not have a menu but 
AM feeding: bone and muscle meat with organ
variety of chicken leg quarters, turkey necks, chicken backs, turkey leg, beef ribs, ox tail,
with heart, gizzards, liver, or lungs

PM feeding: is mostly the same. the only variation is muscle meat

1 raw egg (without shell, he won't eat it)
2 TBSP of Honest Kitchen Preference
1 can of sardines
2 pumps of salmon oil
1 TBSP of Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth
about a 1/4 of a can of Trippett Venison Green Tripe
about a cup of muscle meat: ground beef, or ground turkey, or 1 patty of Stella & Chewy's Dandy Lamb, (Lamb is too expensive and I want him to get more variety)
Also gets table scraps depending on what we are eating.

He also gets coconut oil occasionally. He loves it and licks it right off the spoon.

Only all natural treats. 
Stella & Chewys Carnivore Crunch, bully sticks, dried lamb lung, beef tendon

I currently do not feed pork because my dog has allergies and pork might be aggrivating it.
He also can not eat any flaxseed

Used to feed whole raw fish but I moved and have yet to find a place that I like that isn't too expensive
Also looking for rabbit


----------



## Bronson Bear (Jun 29, 2011)

Raw fed dogs can also get hunger pukes. I was only feeding 1 meal a day but my dog was getting hunger pukes at 4am so I started feeding dinner at 8pm.

Occasionally they might also puke up a bone if they didn't chew it enough, and then chew it again and re eat it.

My dog also would get occasional diarrhea/mucus in his poops but since adding the DE that has stopped.


----------



## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

i'm introducing whole raw meaty bones now. prior, i was offering all grind w/bone. 
currently i've been feeding organic raw chicken necks but tomorrow i'm picking up chicken necks, backs and turkey necks. when the chicken leg quarters go on sale i'm stocking up on that.

i also offer them on rotation: chicken w/bone, venison (grnd w/bone), fatty beef w/powdered eggshell, turkey w/bone, quail (ground w/bone), mackerel on occasion. i don't do pork nor raw fish. 

i give each dog daily a blend of ground heart/beef/liver/green tripe i purchase from a raw pet food company.

i also offer some "veggie glop" on occasion that i make up something like w/ raw milk yogurt, carrot, apple, greens, etc that i blend in my vitamix. seelie snubbed it this morning. i'm going to mix some liver in there to entice him more. 

i'm pretty anal in that i'm still weighing out portions.


----------

