# Do you coddle your poodle?



## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

This came up in the context of agility training, and I've been brooding about it for a while ... interested in others' opinions.

Vasco had a fall off the dog walk a while back (totally my fault, he started up it undirected when we were doing a series of equipment, and I dithered rather than just sending him on). He wasn't hurt, but a little shaken up, and I did my usual comforting/soothing. The trainer said (in the nicest way possible) that I shouldn't coddle him, and I didn't have my thinking on the subject thought through enough at the time to dispute.

"Coddle" is sort of emotionally charged as a term, and I don't really like the word, but I DO coddle him! 

If he's hurt, even in a fleeting, minor way, I want to acknowledge that and let him know I sympathise. And he expects it. If he's bowled over by a dog in the park, or a strange dog snarks at him, or I accidentally tread on him, or he's frightened of something, he comes running and I soothe and comfort and stroke him and tell him he'll live. I don't WANT him to have to tough it out if he's hurt or frightened. It feels like it's my job to make it better if I can.

Thoughts? Am I missing something? It's not like he's a child that has to grow up and be self-sufficient someday. He'll depend on me his whole life, so not sure what the point is of teaching him to toughen up.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I do avoid coddling my dogs. They *do* have yo be independent to a degree and I have seen the first hand effects of coddling. For example, wen Millie was younger she showed some shyness to new people (especially tall!), bikes, and new intimidating dogs. I literally did not acknowledge her fear. I acted as though I didn't notice, projected my own confidence and proceeded to do whatever we were doing. This prevented her fear response from being reinforced she now is the most confident, independent explorer. 

Now, yesterday at the vet she was very nervous because she knew it was that "scary place". I did coddle her with kisses and hugs. She laid in the couch with me in the exam room. I'm sure it would be better if I refrained from coddling in this instance, but I guess I don't feel it is as crucial in this situation.

Re having an accident in agility, I agree with your trainer somewhat in that I personally would avoid too much coddling as it can create more stress for your dog. A simple pat on the head and "you okay sweetie" is what I would do.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

yes and no. it's like with human children. there is a time to give them love and support and "coddle" and a time to have them suck it up and get over it.


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## PoodlePowerBC (Feb 25, 2011)

I agree with faerie and CM ... there is a time and place. Personally, the dog park is where I tend to be tougher. My last Spoo didn't like Choc labs or Shepherds, because he had, what he saw as bad, experiences with them. I always wonder if I hadn't reacted the way I did if I could have prevented this. It took him years to get over the Shepherd phobia, and he Never did get over the Chocolate Lab hatred (BTW, blacks and yellows were OK) IMO, fear is the toughest emotion to deal with in my dogs.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

A tricky one - the standard advice used to be that acknowledging and comforting fear would reinforce it, but I think more recent experience is now changing that. I tend to treat my dogs rather as I would a very small child - a small, passing hurt gets a hug, a rub to make it better, and - if it was my fault - an apology. A more serious hurt gets a pain killer, and probably a check with a professional. Fearful behaviour gets managed around, with every opportunity taken to reward bravery. I try very hard not to appear anxious myself, as that really does reinforce their fear.

So yes, I would comfort my dog if she fell off the dog walk, especially if it was my fault, and then immediately start her on it again a few feet from the end with lots of treats!


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## WestCoastSpoo (May 11, 2011)

I think it's a lot like kids - you know how you see a child fall and scrape their knee and immediately look at the parent? If the parent gives them a quick pat and says "you're ok" the kid goes back to playing, but if the parent says "OH NO!! You got HURT! Oh come over here and sit down..." then the kid starts crying and screaming like they broke their leg...


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

WestCoastSpoo said:


> I think it's a lot like kids - you know how you see a child fall and scrape their knee and immediately look at the parent? If the parent gives them a quick pat and says "you're ok" the kid goes back to playing, but if the parent says "OH NO!! You got HURT! Oh come over here and sit down..." then the kid starts crying and screaming like they broke their leg...


Couldn't have said it better!


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

fjm said:


> I tend to treat my dogs rather as I would a very small child - a small, passing hurt gets a hug, a rub to make it better, and - if it was my fault - an apology. A more serious hurt gets a pain killer, and probably a check with a professional. Fearful behaviour gets managed around, with every opportunity taken to reward bravery. I try very hard not to appear anxious myself, as that really does reinforce their fear.


Beautifully stated. I think that's what I strive for too. In the case of minor fears, I tend to ignore it and march merrily towards whatever is mildly frightening. 

We did have one incident where he was utterly terrified of a swooping sport kite in the park on a windy day, where I sat on the ground with him between my legs telling him it was ok and dishing out tiny treats for 20 minutes. I think if I'd dragged him towards it, he would have bolted.

As with everything, it's probably the case that context is everything! And very likely the individual dog as well.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

Like you, I don't like that term..."Coddle." 
I don't coddle my dogs when they get hurt or whatnot but I do redirect their behaviour by distracting them. For example, my new addition ran into the sliding glass door (he's not used to them) when I let them out the other day. He missed the opening by an few inches! I didn't pamper him but instead distracted him with positive, upbeat words while we ran outside. He shook it off and isn't wary of the sliding glass door.

I've heard people say you shouldn't "coddle" because it reinforces whatever behaviour their exhibiting and I'm no dog behaviour expert. I try to find a balance between showing some sympathy (I know---borderline human response) and snapping them out of it. I think this is critical with a submissive dog--ie., a puppy mill pooch or whatever. (Building confidence.)

It's funny. If I accidentally step on my any of my dog's paws, they come running to me. I act like it's nothing and redirect with a toy or if we're out walking/running--we hit the road! Maybe that's encouragement / reassurance and it's what they need?


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

In a case of really fortuitous timing, one of the blogs I subscribe to has just offered thoughts on the same subject:

Kiss it and make it better Fearfuldogs' Blog

I'm reassured by this "...when something happens that frightens a dog it’s ok to offer them comfort and support. It may even make it easier for them to deal with scary things in the future." That was kind of my thinking.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

JE-UK said:


> In a case of really fortuitous timing, one of the blogs I subscribe to has just offered thoughts on the same subject:
> 
> Kiss it and make it better Fearfuldogs' Blog
> 
> I'm reassured by this "...when something happens that frightens a dog it’s ok to offer them comfort and support. It may even make it easier for them to deal with scary things in the future." That was kind of my thinking.


I in NO way, shape or form believe that an owner is doing the responsible thing by coddling their fearful dog. Not one bit.

Why do you think a lot of small dogs have horrible temperaments? All too often, owners coddle them and don't allow them to be independent dogs. 

Had I coddled Millie as a puppy when she reacted fearfully of certain things, I would INDEED have reinforced her behavior. When she was scared at the biked that zoomed by and bolted the other way while barking, what if I had said in my sweet, loving voice, "Millie, baby, it's okay!!!" While hugging and kissing her. She doesn't know WHAT I am saying, just that I am using a tone of voice she enjoys and that I am giving her affection. She would have thought that she could continue to do that behavior. Instead, I forced her to face her fears in a nonthreatening way by asking her to do a command and FOCUS on me instead of focus on her fear of the stimulus. I remained neutral did not show emotion in my voice while she was facing her fear/obeying a command. (For example, sit stay or down stay while the bike passed). As SOON as the bike passed, I showed my happiest emotions, gave lots of affection and we had a party, party reward session!

Now, if a dog is actually physically hurt, I think that is a different story.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

I don't have a fearful dog, but I think I disagree. 

In the scenario you describe, I would think it could just as easily be interpreted by the dog as "I get no support when the scary thing is there, but when it's gone, the party happens. Therefore, I want the scary thing to go away faster", don't you think?

I've seen some dogs bolt for home when they're frightened; I want mine to bolt to me :smile:.

I don't think a lot of small dogs have horrible temperaments. I think a lot of them have been frightened by people (the world is scarier when you are small) and the only option open to them to deal with it is to try to drive off the scary, looming people. Small dogs can be as confident as big dogs, but I think owners have a bigger role to play in making sure the little guys don't get overwhelmed.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

JE-UK said:


> I don't have a fearful dog, but I think I disagree.
> 
> In the scenario you describe, I would think it could just as easily be interpreted by the dog as "I get no support when the scary thing is there, but when it's gone, the party happens. Therefore, I want the scary thing to go away faster", don't you think?
> 
> ...


As soon as I started giving her a command to displace her fear with, do you know what she still does to this day when faced with something she fears (which is rare)? She looks to ME to tell her what to do. This is exactly what I want. I also increased her confidence by allowing her to safely face things that she was unsure of. She's now the most confident dog I've ever owned. 

I think that this strategy would work with most dogs that have normal temperaments but show fear to some novel things. Perhaps more special needs dogs that actually have fearful personalities would need more coddling, like you describe, I'm not sure.

I won't comment too much on small dogs because I've never owned one. But everytime I see one with a terrible temperament, I see some owner pick their dog up and carry it everywhere, sheltering it from everything and coddling it, maybe even dressing it up in cloths, rolling it in a stroller, you get my point.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Surely it is all a matter of degree? If a dog is fearful I certainly would not add to the fear by sweeping her into my arms and cradling her with a flood of baby talk. I would - and do - step between her and the scarey thing, and show her I will protect her. This has the added advantage that my dogs, if scared, head for the space between my feet! If she then wants to approach it, fine, and she gets lots of praise for being so brave - if not we go round. Mine are very small dogs - there is a lot in the world that could be dangerous to them. At the same time, I don't want them to learn that they have to snap and snarl to protect themselves - I am there to take care of them.

If it is a physical hurt, I provide comfort if appropriate, and a "Don't make such a fuss about nothing" if she is being a drama queen. 

There has been fairly recent research that rather contradicts the adage that offering comfort reinforces the fear - reinforcing fear in dogs TheOtherEndoftheLeash


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

fjm said:


> Surely it is all a matter of degree? If a dog is fearful I certainly would not add to the fear by sweeping her into my arms and cradling her with a flood of baby talk. I would - and do - step between her and the scarey thing, and show her I will protect her. This has the added advantage that my dogs, if scared, head for the space between my feet! If she then wants to approach it, fine, and she gets lots of praise for being so brave - if not we go round. Mine are very small dogs - there is a lot in the world that could be dangerous to them. At the same time, I don't want them to learn that they have to snap and snarl to protect themselves - I am there to take care of them.
> 
> If it is a physical hurt, I provide comfort if appropriate, and a "Don't make such a fuss about nothing" if she is being a drama queen.
> 
> There has been fairly recent research that rather contradicts the adage that offering comfort reinforces the fear - reinforcing fear in dogs TheOtherEndoftheLeash


That article suggests what I was thinking, which is that it depends on the type of situation. 

If the fear can be overcome by allowing the dog to face their fear in a way that feels safe to them, I think that is 100 times better than just coddling them. 

Like the article states, if a dog is barking at people because he is afraid of them, the person giving the dog a treat will not reinforce the behavior (if fear of the person was the true case.) I don't see that as coddling at all. I see that as helping the dog face his fear. This is exactly what I would do.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I've groomed dogs that were constantly coddled and babied at home.. man I hate grooming those drama queens. Oh no, there's a tiny mat in my tail, I'm going to SCREAM like you're killing me and make everyone stare!


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

As a miniature poodle owner (well, two minis and one _really _small standard), I'm personally subjected to the "bratty small dog" assumptions not to mention the "poodle put down syndrome" a LOT. I don't think size makes a difference at all; I've encountered just as many bratty large dogs.  (But I do believe people are much more tempted to "baby" small dogs--ala Paris Hilton--to include dressing them up in ridiculous outfits and carrying them around in gemstone studded purses. It's no surprise this treatment results in an unstable, neurotic dog.)

As I stated upthread, I don't 'coddle' or pamper my dogs when they're scared. I do my best to redirect their attention and that snaps them out of the behaviour (as Chocolate Millie described as well). Dogs react to stimuli differently than people, and quite often this reaction isn't the desired behaviour (much like a toddler throwing a temper tantrum to get a Twinkie; you give in just for some peace and quiet and they learn that a temper tantrum equals Twinkie). If I pampered my dog when he was barking wildly at a jogger, then he'd come to associate the behaviour with getting attention and I predict he'd repeat it. So instead I correct him and immediately redirect his attention to something more productive. 

Granted, this isn't necessarily the same as a fearful dog, and I'm working with a fearful dog right now. He has a tendency to hide behind me when he's unsure about something. Measured reassurance does seem to boost his confidence in trying situations--it lures him out and he soon realizes the 'Big Bad' isn't so scary after all. I also rely on his confident brothers to prop him up (and thank goodness for the power of the pack)!

It's all about moderation. _Measured _reassurance...if I scooped him up and cooed over him every time something startled him, I don't think he'd ever learn to be a independent, self-assured canine. 

ETA: I think the same applies to children, although I'm no expert as I don't have any!


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## littlestitches (Dec 28, 2009)

Rowan said:


> It's all about moderation. _Measured _reassurance...if I scooped him up and cooed over him every time something startled him, I don't think he'd ever learn to be a independent, self-assured canine.
> 
> ETA: I think the same applies to children, although I'm no expert as I don't have any!


It is exactly like that with children. 

The more information I get about raising well adjusted dogs, I see it is pretty much the same as raising well adjusted kids. Except it sounds like it is easier to toilet train a dog :aetsch:


Paula


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## Rocketagility (Apr 27, 2010)

I try to never react ever, I usually try and give a happy emotion. Lets say we are driving and I have to brake hard and avoid a accident. I will laugh and make it into a happy event, I sure don't want my dog to think driving can be scary.

Same kind of thing if a dog fall off a piece of equipment I don't react. I mean if the dog is really hurt I might have to carry the dog off to the vet but again I will be calm and not react. If the dog is not hurt then I might give a quick pat and then back on the obstacle.

If you coddle I am sure you will change your dogs behaviour and it wont change in a good way. Build up your dogs confidence and don't support the opposite.


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## fearfuldogs (Oct 18, 2012)

*To coddle or not to coddle, that is the question*

Thanks for sharing info about my Fearful Dogs' Blog! 

There are some words that make me cringe when I hear them, and coddle is one of them. The word itself isn't bad of course, it's just that it can mean something different to whoever uses or hears it. I prefer to use the word 'comfort' because it's defined by the dog's reaction, not whatever it is I think I'm doing. If petting and cooing to my dog does not make them appear calmer, then there's a good chance I'm not comforting them, even if I think I am. 

The idea that we can do something to reinforce a behavior which is caused by a strong emotional response, by; doing something nice, giving the dog a reward, or attempting to soothe them, is confusing and most often wrong. 

Let me use fear as an example (no surprise there!). If I see a behavior which I think is due to a dog being afraid, regardless of what it looks like (cowering, fleeing, growling, etc.) if the dog is not so afraid that they can't eat a treat, or if we have a positive trusting relationship, I can 'reward' the dog or 'comfort' the dog and expect to see a decrease in the behavior. When we do this we are not reinforcing a behavior we are using classical conditioning to change an emotional response. Change the emotion, change the behavior. 

There are also studies which show that after a stress inducing event, an animal who is able to be with a trusted companion will have their stress hormone levels lower faster than an animal who has to deal with it on their own. This is called social buffering. 

Jollying or happy talk is a way we change an emotional response too. 

We can do things to a scared dog that would make them feel more afraid, or make no difference at all to them (if they're really scared we might not be able to do anything except get them out of there), but if we are truly providing them with 'comfort' it's not a bad thing. We're not telling them they're right to be afraid, the ARE afraid.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I pretty much agree with everyone's posts. I don't coddle My Molly but I do reassure her with a pat or a cuddle. I don't want 'Little Dog Syndrome"!! I DO spoil her sometimes, but I try to use the same common sense as when I raised my 3 sons(who I am VERY proud of!) I've always believed that animals will reflect the energy you put out......


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## Rayah-QualitySPs (Aug 31, 2010)

JE-UK said:


> This came up in the context of agility training, and I've been brooding about it for a while ... interested in others' opinions.
> 
> Vasco had a fall off the dog walk a while back
> 
> ...


Well I am _coming in_ on this topic when it is *already on page three*, but you asked for OPINIONS so here is mine.

Your trainer is *correct*. You are attempting to teach your dog to *act* in a certain way while doing an activity *you* chose.

The word coddle means: *To treat indulgently; baby*. 

Babying your dog is not conducive to teaching the dog an activity. Your *actions* are not matching your *words*. Exactly how did your dog act "shaken up". Could you be mixing up confusion with shaken up?

Puppies fall off things all the time. This is how they learn to be careful. 

Dogs are *not* children and *do not think* like children or *people*. 
Although many concepts/ways to teach things to dogs and small children are the same the *thought process* of a small child and a dog are *extremely different.*

When a child's booboo disappears after a kiss an educated adult *understands* that the kiss was really a *distraction* to focus the child's *attention elsewhere*. 

Talking in a babyish way *while* asking a dog to be confident is extremely *confusing* to a dog. They do not understand your* intent* is to reassure them. 

What is a pat/pet or a cuddle? In _my world_ a pat or a cuddle is *used* as a *reward*. You reward the dog with a treat and a pat. You are happy with your dog so you pet him. 

If I *use* a *reward* when my dog *falls off* something what the h*ll am I saying? Here let me *reward you for falling off*!!!! Here dog, I really love, I want to reward you for hurting yourself. Would you reward your child for falling off a roof? 

What are *you* attempting to *tell* your dog when you pat him? 

If you *confuse* a dog *enough* times you will make the dog neurotic!

Dogs, especially smart poodles read *body language* more than words. 

If you really do want to learn ask someone you trust to tape your next class. Then play the tape back for someone else who was not at the class without sound. Ask that person what they *thought* you were trying to *say*/convey to your dog. You may be surprised at what your body language says! 

To a dog rewards can be as simple as your voice, your touch or a treat. LOVING your dog means *thinking like a dog* so you can make his life the best you can.

I really think that your brooding, a very negative word by the way, was your brain telling you to accept the advice you were paying for.

This took way too much time to type! LOL I am off to my bath so I can watch Sons Of Anarchy! (My reward).


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