# Really gross mouth... and weird vomiting habits



## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Both our standards will vomit bile on empty stomachs (and so did the foster standard we had a couple of years ago - and he still does, as his new owner tells me) I think it's not uncommon for the breed for this to happen...

As far as the teeth/breath - we have no problem with our dogs with that. What is Sonya eating? Does she ever get to chew on raw bones?


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

No raw bones for Sonya unfortunately. She is part of a service dog training program and they are pretty strict about what the pups eat (no "human" food ever). She eats Natural Balance, and has to be fed what they say to feed, so no changing that. But it isn't total garbage, and the last poodle I raised and the Labrador before that both at Natural Balance as well with no mouth issues. 

How do you go about preventing the vomiting? Like, what feeding methods do you use, how many meals do you give? Also, have you noticed a decrease with age, or an increase in the amount of time that they can go in between meals? 

Sorry for so many questions!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Yes, even though ours are free fed, they will still vomit bile if it has been a while since they have meandered over to the food dish. We have two Whippets and they have notoriously sensitive stomachs. If we find they are puky in the morning, we feed them each a piece of brown bread and peanut butter before bed time. Then they are good in the morning.

If her breath is foul perhaps her teeth need to be cleaned and polished by a vet. I have become a proponent of dental hygiene in Canines after losing our old boy on Friday. His teeth were a disgrace, but by the time we got him, he had developed a serious heart murmur, so no vet would anesthetize him to clean his teeth. Once they have a heart murmur they are prone to every issue they develop becoming much more serious than in aa dog who has a healthy heart.A catch 22. So I would get a vet to really check her mouth to make certain she does not have any abcesses on her gums or throat, and see if the vet things she might benefit from a good cleaning.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Thanks!

She has been checked by the vet, many times. The last visit (about 2 months ago) he didn't think that her teeth needed cleaning yet (though he did say that she had more tartar than he would expect on a 9 month old). She was only 9 months old at the time. He instructed me to start brushing her teeth more often, and so we have. And it helps some, but doesn't seem to completely cure the problem. 

No abscesses, broken teeth, or anything like that. He did a really thorough oral exam on her the last time we went in and found nothing of concern, other than the tartar. She will be finished with her puppy training and move on to her formal training in a couple of months, and I'm sure that she will get a full dental workup (especially because of her history) once she gets back up to our main training facility. I was mainly asking because I plan on getting a Spoo of my own soon, and was wondering if I should be looking forward to excessive tartar producing-rotten-smelly mouths forever!


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

We feed the dogs twice a day, once at noon and once just before we go to bed. I think feeding them before bed helps them not be so hungry overnight. It's rare that they throw up anymore, but it happens on occasion. If they happen to get pukey between meals, I'll give them a portion of their next meal right away and then feed the rest on schedule. 

If she can't chew raw bones, how about one of the hard nylabones (not the cornstarch/consumable ones, but the ones that are hard like bone?) My dogs don't LOVE those types of bones, but they will pick them up on occasion to chew... The nice thing about the nylabones is that they don't need to be kept refrigerated and there's no worry about spoilage. 

Natural Balance is a fine food - I have a couple of my dogs on the limited ingredient Natural Balance and they do well on it.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

She has several of the "durable" nylabones, and she likes them but she isn't a hard chewer, so I'm not sure how much she is accomplishing when she plays with them. She prefers to run around with them or throw them in the air rather than actually sitting down and chewing. 

And yeah, NB isn't bad, I just prefer grain free and she gets the Original Ultra line so it has grains, but not too many. I would never be able to wait until noon to feed her. She usually vomits by 9am, if not earlier than that. Our feeding schedule: 

Breakfast around 7-8am
Small lunch around 2-3pm
Dinner around 10pm

If she doesn't get lunch, she vomits before dinner. If she eats dinner too early, she vomits before breakfast. Poor silly poodle stomach  For our program, she is supposed to only be on two meals per day. But they made an exception for her, saying that the people who wanted poodles wanted them bad enough to make special arrangements for her to have 3 meals a day. I was really hoping she would grow out of it by a year old, but looks like that isn't happening.


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## PoodlePowerBC (Feb 25, 2011)

My puppy also has what they call "hunger Pukes" in the morning. I called my vet on this, and he said it's very common. He said it was caused by stomach acids working on an empty stomach. He suggested feeding the large meal a little later in the day, and throwing a handful of food in his crate when I put him to bed. So far, this has helped. He did say they usually grow out of this. This excess stomach acids may be what is causing her bad breath as well. (I am switching to raw next week and hope this will help as well, but this won't help you in your situation)


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Thanks for that advice! 

I still have my fingers crossed for her growing out of it. Good luck with your switch to raw! I hope to be able to provide a raw diet for my poodle whenever I get one of my own, if not totally raw they will at least get raw bones a few times a week. Hope it all goes well and your pup does great on it!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I have a dental pick for my dog he is only 5 months old so can't really give good feedback on poodles but my niece uses it on her two labs (training to be guide dogs) and her two rat terriers and their teeth are pearly white. One rat terrier was a rescue dog and had horrible teeth and smelly breath prior to my niece cleaning them this way. The vet wanted to clean her teeth and after a few months of this type of cleaning she had virtually no tarter and she no longer needed a professional cleaning. If your dog continues to vomit she needs more frequent feeding even if this is outside the guidelines. Her vomiting will also affect her teeth and her breath.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Thanks everyone! 

Just FYI, Sonya is ok now (for the most part). Switching to 3 meals per day has pretty much eliminated the vomiting, except for the occasional time when I might be preoccupied and not realize what time it is. And her breath has improved, just still isn't great. 

I wasn't really asking for medical advice (since she is doing pretty good at this point), but I do appreciate all of the awesome ideas that you have all given! I should have been more clear in my original post, that Sonya is ok, she has just HAD these problems and I am curious is other Spoo owners experience the same things. 

I was mainly posting to ask if these were common problems in poodles, because I don't know  I am planning on getting my on Spoo in a few months, and am trying to learn as much as possible. I wanted to know if these were common things to face, so that if my new Spoo starts having similar issues, I will know what is going on (and be armed with ways to handle it; so I definitely appreciate all of the input and advice).


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

My miniature had the empty-stomach vomiting as a pup, usually in the morning, solved by a bedtime snack. For a while, he was on four meals a day, which was a real PITA.

None of the poodles I know, and certainly not mine, have smelly mouths.

I have no evidence, but I would think chewing would have to help. If she doesn't chew the nylabones, how about something else hard enough to clean her teeth, but soft enough to be attractive? Mine has a variety .... deer antlers (a current favourite), rolled pig hide (like rawhide, but greasier and more disgusting :smile, leathery dried chicken, dried tripe, etc.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Have you tried PlaqueOff, or the Petzlife dental gel? I have found both useful in reducing tartar and smells.


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## jahillis (Apr 13, 2011)

We use the Tropiclean Fresh Breath products and they really work great! We use the gel a couple times a week and the Fresh Breath Foam everyday to keep fresh breath. "Plus we feed RAW which gives the dogs breath a sweet smell.


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

I had exactly that same problem with my dog for the last 4 years. She was diagnosed with pancreatitus 3 weeks ago and ever since I had her on a home cooked diet. It cleared up all the problems… no more vomiting, bad breath or mucus stools. I haven’t changed the amount or frequency I feed her. 

I think that the quality of dog food has deteriorated considerably... I’ve noticed a considerable increased amount of people having problems with their dogs having reactions to dogfood. 

My vet also mentioned that it might be the preservatives the dogs are starting to react to... God only knows what they put in dog food. 

This is quite interesting regarding dog food labels:
The Dog Food Project - Dog Food Label Information 101

I'll be honest... cooking for my dog regularly is a pain in the butt... but it sure as hell beats cleaning up puke regularly!


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Where can you find Petzlife or Plaque Off? We don't have a big box pet store in Athens (though I think there is one about an hour drive from here), and I haven't seen any of these products in the locally owned stores here. Is there a good place to order them offline? 

She does chew deer antlers, but the pups in this program are not allowed to have "hide" chew toys of any kind, or "real bones" of any kind. 

PonkiPoodles, interesting that your poor pup didn't grow out of it  I have read that side upside down and backwards, lol. When my boyfriends dog became really ill from dog food, I did tons and tons of research and that was one of my main references. I would much prefer to feed her raw, if that were an option. But unfortunately it isn't, so kibble it is for her!


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## Siskojan (Mar 13, 2011)

Very timely - I was just about to post a thread on the topic of teeth. Sisko has always had tartar prone teeth and had a vet cleaning at just over a year old. He was so wobbly and out of it afterwards I really don't want to do it again. He eats Evo salmon and herring - it agrees with him but it only comes in chihuahua sized kibble! No large bites and no crunch. He has an antler and chomps on it sporadically and wasn't very thrilled by real bones. I have ordered an Oral Care Gel from Petzlife that you apply twice daily for the first 30 days and it is supposed to dissolve plaque and tartar so we'll see if it works. It should arrive in a day or two. Has anyone tried that kind of thing. The good thing is that although he has brownish back teeth he has nice breath. He outgrew the hunger pukes around a year old.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I have had excellent results in the past with the Petzlife gel, but my two hate the taste so much I am now trying alternatives.


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## Siskojan (Mar 13, 2011)

I ordered the salmon oil one as that is his food flavour and he loves it


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

I have read that a tablespoon of plain yogurt daily helps regulate the beneficial bacteria in the gut and can help with breath issues. I give my mini yogurt every other day... he has great breath, I'm not sure if it's the yogurt or just he naturally has good breath.


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## Siskojan (Mar 13, 2011)

Have now received oral care gel and it is not very salmon flavoured and the boy does not like it very much at all.:mad-tongue: However we will persist twice a day for 30 days and see what happens. I ordered it straight from the Petzlife website and it took from April 18 until today to arrive. The company was very good when I emailed them to confirm the mailing tracking number and they checked with me today to see if it had arrived yet.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

*Really gross mouth*

Maybe she has an allergy to something she is eating...or an ingredient in her food.....wheat, corn, soy, etc.


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## phrannie (Jan 8, 2011)

*Can you give her a Bisquit or something between meals (is that allowed??)...I've always given MoJo a treat at bedtime to avoid the bile pukes in the morning...having a little something in their tums between meals seems to help a lot. 

If it's really an overproduction of acid, maybe talk to the Vet about a dog friendly antacid that she could take. 

p*


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

You mentioned you are thinking of a poodle as a pet. All poodles do not have this issue. The only time Swizzle has ever vomited was when I gave him perioxide to make him vomit because I thought he ate some chocolate. He had not (it was my husband). I hope they will let you feed a treat instead of giving the dog a pill. It is a shame they will not consider raw because I do think it would address all her issues.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Just a heads up that this is an *OLD *thread (from April!) Someone just resurrected it - so the original poster may not be having the same issues anymore... 

Barb


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