# Breeding?



## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

Pictures!

These are new of Tues, excuse the quality XD it was cloudy and at dusk so they are a bit blurry. Oh and the one of her with some bad hair was a before the bath picture.


























This is the only one I have of Scribbles, he is due for a grooming soon and I'll get some stacked photos when I can.


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## mercymoon (Aug 29, 2008)

Hey-I just noticed you have the same house shoes as I do...
I am wearing mine right now!:tongue:

Anyways, I think they would make some gorgeous puppies considering
the coloration of both parents for one and Tuesday has a nice conformation!
I think Scribbles is purdy as well. 

I think it's up to you what you wanna do- afterall she is your dog, you
know what's best for her!

Good Luck!


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## gwtwmum2 (Sep 14, 2008)

I think that you are on the right track. Clearly there are people that really freak out if your dog isn't championed... and I do understand that the point behind that is breeding a good representation of the breed. However, you are clearly not being a BYB or puppy mill. You are doing the right thing for your future puppy owners by having male and female tested (to me that is the really important part - so that hopefully the puppies will be healthy for their new owners).
And like you said - you are planning on breeding her once so that hopefully YOU can get a dog out of the breeding to show. Which again - makes sense. You aren't trying to overpopulate the standard poodles.
This scenerio sounds like one that I would be interested in if I was looking for a puppy.
BTW - I love the daddy! I'm a sucker for brown.


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## highhorse (Sep 17, 2008)

I'm in a similar position with a toy poodle, she is a good representation of the breed standard, her daddy is a champion off champion lines and her mother has champions and junior warrants in her breed lines. The problems I can forsee are:


will you get a puppy suitable for the show ring?
is there a market where you are for pups?

We are in the middle of a credit crunch here and the market is pretty bleak. Bulldogs that were going for £2000 are now selling for £450, if at all. Lots of reputable show breeders have cut back on their matings


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## Blue Fox (Oct 22, 2008)

I don't think you have to title a dog to warrant breeding from her, BUT will the mating produce quality pups, will it improve the breed standard, will you actually get the show potential pup you want?

And as highhorse said is there a market for those pups. I would be concerned as standards can have such big litters (T was from a litter of 9) I certainly wouldn't want 9 pups to be finding homes from with the doom and gloom everyone seems to think we're having! I know my breeder offers to take back any pups or help you rehome if for what ever reason you can't keep the pup any longer. Once they are on the ground you hold their lives and their future in your hands - personally I would buy a show potential pup rather than introducing another litter of pups to this world.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

Thanks y'all for your opinions, I appreciate it very much.

When my friend got Scribbles I was in love with him and we were going to show him until he got hurt. He has nice movement for a guy with two bad legs, nice tail set and bone. So I do think that by breeding them it would benefit the breed, if it turns out that none are "show quality" then they will be fixed as will the parents so...

I have been searching for a show quality Parti Standard puppy for the better part of 2 years and I have yet to find a breeder that I would want to fork over 2 grand for a puppy that may or may not turn out. I have been researching both pedigrees and seeing what relatives of theirs have produced and so far so good. There are a few that are not so good but you can't get perfect every time. 

Well the "market" according to my friend is pretty big for Parti Poodles of any size and we would advertise in the bigger cities. If I do breed her I am well prepared to take on as many puppies she would have. I have seen some litters of as little as 2 or as many at 11 so its a toss up as to how many she would have. I was a bit anal about who my rabbits went to a when I was breeding and showing them and with any of the animals I fostered so I would make sure all homes would be forever homes and I fully plan on offering lifetime support to those pups. I would rather the people bring them back to me then get rid of them on their own. Haha knowing me I would end up keeping the whole litter!

My friend and I are hoping to have our own line of Parti Standards as the current lines are getting a bit muddled and BYB and millers are jumping on the Parti wagon. Haha she told me just the other day that she can just see us now strutting around the ring at Westminster, me with the dog and her in the crowd cheering us on! Haha I told her she was nuts but breeding and showing dogs has always been a dream of mine and right now seams to be the perfect time to do it as I don't know when I will get another chance.


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## IPP (Nov 29, 2008)

Another thing you can do to protect yourself from puppies ending up in the wrong hands is to co-own EVERY ONE! Then if the dog is no longer wanted, ect...your name is still there.

I know that spay/neuter contract is a must...but even if you send them already altered that doesn't "guarantee" them a great forever home. If you make people aware that all pups will be sold under co-ownership only that will run off your BYBs. 

As for demand...um yes huge one...I get e-mails all the time from people wanting to know if I breed parti-color poodles...becuase of my e-mail addy.

Most want small ones but a few are looking for ANY size, and a few have asked about parti-color standards poodles. I imagine that tons are BYB looking for a cheap breeder...but the ones asking for for pups that are already "fixed" I know are not asking with bad intentions.

There is a woman in Indiana with some parti-color standards and I know when she had some puppies they were all gone in a week. Of course that was like 2 yrs ago so the demand might be down now. I don't think her dogs were show dogs or anything...but she was selling them on limited papers so I would guess they had spay/neuter contracts as well. For a whole litter of I think 7 to go in one week on limited papers must be saying something about the demand.

I don't have a link to her site...all I can remember is that her male's name was Walker and he was a very nicely marked parti-color. Maybe Chicky knows her or knows more...


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

I'm sorry IPP, i don't know anyone that has partipoodles in Indiana.


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## IPP (Nov 29, 2008)

ChickyChat said:


> I'm sorry IPP, i don't know anyone that has partipoodles in Indiana.


Never mind...I found her web-site and I guess she is only breeding Giant Schnoodles now. :banghead:

If you want to at least see Walker (the nice standard male I liked) he is on this page...

http://www.angelasdogs.com/Meet_the_family.htm


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## tannerokeefe (Dec 14, 2008)

in one of your posts you stated that this will more than likely be a one time breeding, and then in the last one you stated that you and your friend hope to have your own line of Partis? Which is it?
:focus:
I think if you think you can find them good homes and have a spay/neuter contract then go for it, they would have BEAUTIFUL puppies!! She is your dog!!:tongue:


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

I don't think there is anything wrong with breeding two conformationally correct dogs that are health tested. Most breeder's have a dog now and then that they keep because they are good breeding stock but cannot be shown for one reason or another. 

I actually like idea of breeding Tuesday to a male that is a brown parti instead of a cafe parti. Your pups should be much more flashy then breeding a cafe parti to cafe parti like you mentioned before. 

By the way the stacked pic of tues inside looks the nicest. Her non show side is flashier then her show side huh. She has a nice high tail.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

After looking back at the pics too Tuesday has pretty nice bone for a bitch. The male looks like he could use a little more so Tuesday has plenty to give to there babies. 

I couldn't help but mention that. I can't stand it when people breed poodle's with no substance or bone to dogs with none either. They just looks fragile and not sound.

Does the male still have his rear lower legs. Thats very sad that he was atttacked from a bully. What a horrific incident that must of been.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

Haha, the one time breeding was in reference to Tuesday, once we have a litter she will be spayed and her puppy's (the two we would keep) would continue the line. When I had my rabbits the most I would breed them would be twice, why keep breeding the same animal over and over again? That's how lines get muddled.

Thanks Jenn, the one of her inside in the best one I have gotten. I am still learning how to stack her just right as she likes to lean :lol: I love Tuesdays bone, Scribbles has about the same, and I love his dark color. Tuesday has gotten so light it would be un-beneficial to breed her to a Cafe so this breeding would be perfect. I was a bit worried about her tail when I got her but now that she has grown a bit its great, not to gay or over the top. 

Scribbles recovered extremely well, you would never know he had anything wrong with him until he moves as he has a little limp. His two limbs that were injured are a bit thin do to mussel loss but you can still see the dog he could have been. I'll have to get some more pictures. I did find this one of him, its not very flattering XD


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## tannerokeefe (Dec 14, 2008)

how big is Scribbles? Tuesday?


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Purple Poodle said:


> Haha, the one time breeding was in reference to Tuesday, once we have a litter she will be spayed and her puppy's (the two we would keep) would continue the line. When I had my rabbits the most I would breed them would be twice, why keep breeding the same animal over and over again? That's how lines get muddled.
> 
> Thanks Jenn, the one of her inside in the best one I have gotten. I am still learning how to stack her just right as she likes to lean :lol: I love Tuesdays bone, Scribbles has about the same, and I love his dark color. Tuesday has gotten so light it would be un-beneficial to breed her to a Cafe so this breeding would be perfect. I was a bit worried about her tail when I got her but now that she has grown a bit its great, not to gay or over the top.
> 
> Scribbles recovered extremely well, you would never know he had anything wrong with him until he moves as he has a little limp. His two limbs that were injured are a bit thin do to mussel loss but you can still see the dog he could have been. I'll have to get some more pictures. I did find this one of him, its not very flattering XD


haha...ya thats not the most flattering pic but you can atleast see he's got a rear. lol Tuesday tail would be the least for my worries as its atleats high set and you can tell from pics its has a strong thick base. If the studs isn't gay or gay tails don't run in there lines then I wouldn't worry. 

He's got a lot of white....that should be a flashy litter of parti's since Tuesday has more color. I hope the health testing goes well and the breeding is successful. Im sure you know this but try and get them to tie 3 times. 2 is good but 3 is better.


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

tannerokeefe said:


> how big is Scribbles? Tuesday?


I think your thinking what Im thinking. Scribbles looks like a smaller male Standard Poodle. I believe Tuesday is a taller bitch so breeding to a smaller male would be beneficial to this breeding. That should bring the pups back to Standard height for a Standard Poodle. 

If only all breeder's would try to stick to the standard in breeds.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

Tues is about 22/24 inches at the withers and about 55lbs. Scribbles is about the same size maybe a little smaller. He does have a lot of white but also a lot of ticking, I hope he will pass on his blaze and muzzle markings. I hate seeing those over sized so called "Royals" :shot:

I have been doing so much research on breeding and my friend who owns Scribbles has bred dogs before so I think we are set. I think we are going to start having play dates the first of February :whoo:


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

This is the dog we were wanting to put a deposit on for pick before I got Sting. His name is Bugatti.

http://grandeurs.net/ 

Depending if I need to do an outcross which I don't believe that's needed since his breeding was an outcross. I prefer line breeding so you have consistancy and do outcross's when its needed. The plan will be to get a bitch out of a stud to breed back to Sting, eventually. 

I think Im going to go with Huffish lines though. I love Ch. Da Maya Hightide Splash, which is pictured on this page a few times. I have lots of research to do and over time things can change but Im getting to where I can tell poor lines from better now. Im making progress. lol

http://www.huffish.se/news.html


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## SECRETO (Aug 20, 2008)

Purple Poodle said:


> Tues is about 22/24 inches at the withers and about 55lbs. Scribbles is about the same size maybe a little smaller. He does have a lot of white but also a lot of ticking, I hope he will pass on his blaze and muzzle markings. I hate seeing those over sized so called "Royals" :shot:
> 
> I have been doing so much research on breeding and my friend who owns Scribbles has bred dogs before so I think we are set. I think we are going to start having play dates the first of February :whoo:



From Tuesday's pics she looks like she's in the 24 inch area. I think that would be a good idea to go with a slightly smaller male in your case. If you don't have a wicket (sp) try and measure her with a tape measure at the top of her wither's.... just for reference. LOL you probably already know what. 

I can't help myself sometimes!


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

I don't have a wicket but I do have a couple of yard sticks.

Haha its funny how much you can learn by just looking at breeder websites I have found a few that I like and Grandeurs was one of the first kennels I bookmarked when I first thought of getting into Poodles. The Swedish have done wonderfully with their Poodles, they are all so stunning 

I too prefer line breeding, this breeding will be and depending on the puppy I keep I will most likely try an outcross just because Partis are getting a bit dense. 

So I guess once Tues comes into heat we will be breeding! I all ready have a client who wants a puppy! :high5:


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## PudelzTwo (Feb 19, 2009)

*Breeding Parti's*

Can I ask if both parent dogs have their full genetic health testing done prior to breeding? Do you have a OFA hip score on each parent showing them to be free of hip dyplasia? Did you do a CERF eye exam on each puppy showing them to be free of eye disease? After all Tytan's has produced day blind puppies out of one of their lines. Are you prepared to raise a litter that may go blind? Health problems in the parti poodles are rampant. Responsible breeders do full OFA testing prior to breeding. Even if just breeding 'pets.' 

Do these dogs have full AKC registration papers? After all, Tytans and Kitsue lost registration rights on a pile of dogs. There's a bunch of their dogs on conditional only now because they failed DNA checks and the pedigrees/registration papers are invalid. So do you have correct AKC registration papers on these dogs? 

Other than just producing spotted puppies, is there any other reason for this breeding? After all standard parti puppies are a giant GLUT on the market right now. There are dozens of litters available on places like Puppyfind.com already..... 

As an aside.... in just 2 1/2 years in breeding poodles.... Tytan's is already out of business. They bought up a pile of dogs, bred a pile of litters... and 2 1/2 years later they are gone.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

Well the breeding has been put on hold for now. There has been a whole pile of **** dumped on me with family issues and other dog issues so all of the money I saved to have the testing done got spent :shot:

So in short yes Tuesday will be tested before being bred.

The stud I was going to use can not have his hips done because of his injuries but she is doing the other tests. 

I know all about TyTan's and am ****ed. Tuesday (as does the potential sire) has conditional AKC papers, that just means she can not be shown in conformation which Partis can not be shown there anyhow and once there is three generation of DNA testing they can have "full" registration. I'm not really happy with AKC anyway so that's a moot point. 

I know all about the substandard quality of Parti poodles and is one of the reasons I want to breed my own dogs and start a line that people can be proud to own. I think breeding my dog would benefit the breed. 

Tuesdays heat has come and gone and we are starting work on her obedience training as she does not like breed showing/training but is ecstatic to work on OD!

So yea I do have some idea of what I am doing  but thanks for posting!


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## starkeeper (Jan 27, 2009)

Parti-colors are enchanting but I don't think they can do AKC confirmation since parti-colors are a disqualification....solids only.

Am I correct?


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

starkeeper said:


> Parti-colors are enchanting but I don't think they can do AKC confirmation since parti-colors are a disqualification....solids only.
> 
> Am I correct?


Correct, but they can compete in Obedience, Rally and Field Trials. The can compete in all UKC events.


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## PudelzTwo (Feb 19, 2009)

*Conditional Registration*

AKC Conditional Registration has nothing to do with conformation showing and everything to do with the fact that part of the dog's pedigree is simply unknown. Therefore you have no idea what health issues could be lurking there. 

If you look on Poodlepedigree.com you can see that Kitsue was a tremendously high volume breeder. Many of their dogs are DNA'd yet the sires to the failed pedigrees where not ever found.... They could be anyone. 

Another thing... To go back to full AKC registration, you must DNA Profile both sire AND dam for 3 full generations. Otherwise all offspring will forever remain conditional only if both males and females are not DNA'd. 

You also said that Tuesday and the sire both have conditional registration papers only.... so both of them have ancestors that are simply unknown? Are they related to each other?


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## PudelzTwo (Feb 19, 2009)

*Parti Quality*



Purple Poodle said:


> I know all about the substandard quality of Parti poodles and is one of the reasons I want to breed my own dogs and start a line that people can be proud to own. I think breeding my dog would benefit the breed.
> 
> So yea I do have some idea of what I am doing  but thanks for posting!



Actually there is a huge divide between the people you got your dog from and the reputable show breeders of parti poodles who have been working on producing quality dogs for decades now. Many of them are constantly crossing their parti's and phantoms with full health testing including CHIC certifications directly to AKC champions who are also fully health tested. 

So you can now buy champion bred parti and phantom poodles that are conformationally stunning and fully health tested for generations from excellent pedigrees who don't have these health issues, or conditional registrations with unknown pedigrees.

Lines I'm thinking of include Baroque, Jaset, Tintlet, Highfalutin', DGL (Dog Gone Lovely), Whispering Pines (WP's), of course JC Pioneer, and others. Not the volume breeders out there just cranking out spotted puppies for $$$.


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## ChickyChat (Sep 1, 2008)

Pudelztwo, I know you just joined this group, but we don't go around judging everyone. If you only came here to make people feel 2 ft tall and have to explain themselves over and over I'm outta here. 

My puppies are due in 2 weeks and 2 days! The final countdown!! 
Are you gonna run me under the rug too?


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## gwtwmum2 (Sep 14, 2008)

I agree with ChickyChat. Pudelztwo if you have questions - great go ahead and ask - but if you are really concerned, why don't you just pm the person you have concerns about rather than cause someone to be put on the spot in the public forum.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

I don't mind the questions. 

I won't argue with you about AKC I have the paper they sent me with my registration and will go by what they said.

I spoke with Sue (Kitsue) via email and it was determined _by AKC_ that there was a mutation in the DNA of Pilgrim and none of her dogs in her kennel matched those puppies no did any other on file and I don't think Sue would out right lie about who the sire was. 

My Standard was given to me by my friend who bought her from TyTan's, I had no say in choosing her. Tuesdays sire is a UKC champion and has had testing as is her Dame. 

I know all of those kennel you posted (all are in my favorites) and they are wonderful kennels. 

Why is it wrong for me to want to breed my own dog and start my own line?


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## Sasha (Feb 17, 2009)

It isn't wrong of you sweetie. There is always going to be the "nose high" ppl that think by saying negative things to you..that is makes them seem superior. Its on every forum I have ever belonged to. Your best bet is to just apply the ignore option if it is on here. He may have a lot of knowledge about canines but has poor verbal communication skills with humans. It happens unfortunately but my experience with ppl like that...you never win, they just bring you down to their level.


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## TreshaA2 (Mar 9, 2009)

sorry, just joined today-- I have a parti poodle from Tytan's -- Robin G., she'll be two years old in May and is a family dog. Question-- her papers were in order when I purchased her, but after reading this thread-- could you guys catch me up to speed? Do I need to have her genetically tested? Could there be a genetic problem I don't know about? So far her health is great.... 
Her parents are Stormy and Wedge....thanks....
Tresha in Memphis


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

TreshaA2 said:


> sorry, just joined today-- I have a parti poodle from Tytan's -- Robin G., she'll be two years old in May and is a family dog. Question-- her papers were in order when I purchased her, but after reading this thread-- could you guys catch me up to speed? Do I need to have her genetically tested? Could there be a genetic problem I don't know about? So far her health is great....
> Her parents are Stormy and Wedge....thanks....
> Tresha in Memphis


No your dog should be fine, Wedge is from Kitsues and there is nothing wrong with his pedigree in terms of registration. I am not sure who Stormy is out of, do you have a papered name for Stormy so I can look it up?

Is your Poodle a brindle?


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## TreshaA2 (Mar 9, 2009)

TyTan's Takin' Em By Storm AKC#PR10088201
No, she's a Tuxedo...thanks!!!


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

Is your dog Mitzi?

By looking Storm up on TPPD she is no related to Pilgrim, the dog with the genetic "mutation" so she should be fine.


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## Blue Fox (Oct 22, 2008)

Yes you should have her tested and the dog should be also. Some of the health problems may not show up till later.


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## TreshaA2 (Mar 9, 2009)

Yes, she is Mitzi... she is a black and white Tuxedo.. Thank you Purple Poodle... seems you and Blue Fox have different views on whether on not to test Mitzi or not...what would be the pros and cons of doing that? Thanks a bunch.... TreshaA2


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

TreshaA2 said:


> Yes, she is Mitzi... she is a black and white Tuxedo.. Thank you Purple Poodle... seems you and Blue Fox have different views on whether on not to test Mitzi or not...what would be the pros and cons of doing that? Thanks a bunch.... TreshaA2


Well it depends on what your mean by "tested" if your dog s just a pet and is being spayed then I see no reason to "test" when they came from tested parents but if your planning on breeding then there are sevral tests that should be done prior.


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## TreshaA2 (Mar 9, 2009)

she is just a pet and is spayed.. I was just worried that she might have some inherited problems that we should know about. Thanks for all of your support and advice, it's definitely appreciated.


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## Blue Fox (Oct 22, 2008)

Sorry Tresha I thought you were going to breed from her and therefore should do the tests, as she is spayed then no I wouldn't bother having her tested. You can deal with the problems if they arise. Our boy has been neutered and we won't be having him tested.


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## roxy25 (Dec 18, 2008)

Blue Fox said:


> Sorry Tresha I thought you were going to breed from her and therefore should do the tests, as she is spayed then no I wouldn't bother having her tested. You can deal with the problems if they arise. Our boy has been neutered and we won't be having him tested.


If you had a health contract with the breeder then that would be the only reason to test if you want to make sure the dog has no genetic problems. But other than that like blue fox stated there is no need to test if she is spayed and you are not going to bred her.


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