# Wendy got propositioned. What now?



## Mia42 (Sep 5, 2016)

Through a mutual friend, I got introduced to a lady that has spoos. After a bit of discussion, and her meeting Wendy, she asked if she could breed her stud to Wendy in exchange for a puppy. 

Wendy was supposed to be my service dog, but she bonded to my partner rather than me. I took her to a show once, and like the lady that she is, does not prefer having strangers touch her chest and butt. (I am not good at the category thing, but she was in the >1 year category and eventually lost to a 5 month old puppy.)

I have been on her website and, like most good breeders,she had a discussion page on her opinions of puppy raising, immunizations, and the snipping of tails and dewclaws. She started to say something once, and I was like, "Yea, I saw that on a website and completely agree with it." It was her website. This was not a "the next time she goes into heat" thing, more like at some point in the future.

What questions should I ask? What advice do y'all have?

ETA: I tried doing a test breeding on poodledata.org, so I could figure out the COI, but I cannot figure out how to get it to work.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Breeding just because you have a female and she has a male isn't that simple! First off, have you done all the DNA health and OFA, Cerf, etc testing on your girl? Is her male tested ? Is she a known respected breeder willing to mentor you? Do they fit the called for standard structurally? Is either dog pointed in any of the dog venues (Cgc, Conformation,Agility, Obedience etc) So much to think about before the deed is ever done! GOOD LUCK! 
Hoping a few of our members who are breeders can jump in and explain much to you here!


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

Did Wendy have an oops litter of puppies with your male dog? Did the breeder mention why specifically she wants to breed to Wendy? Good breeders will always have a very good reason for crossing out, usually to improve certain areas of conformation, and after reviewing all health testing including the poodle diversity tests. I don't know much about your dogs at all so I cannot really give advice here. The best way to find out if your dogs are worthy of being bred is to complete all health testing, AND compete in conformation. Read the illustrated poodle standard by PCA. Is your bitch closely following the standard? Is the dog? MollyMuiMa I believe has a great flow chart that you should look at. If the breeder does not have a lot of very specific reasons for wanting to breed to Wendy, I would say that she is probably just a backyard breeder looking to expand her bloodlines.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

MollyMuiMa said:


> Breeding just because you have a female and she has a male isn't that simple! First off, have you done all the DNA health and OFA, Cerf, etc testing on your girl? Is her male tested ? Is she a known respected breeder willing to mentor you? Do they fit the called for standard structurally? Is either dog pointed in any of the dog venues (Cgc, Conformation,Agility, Obedience etc) So much to think about before the deed is ever done! GOOD LUCK!
> Hoping a few of our members who are breeders can jump in and explain much to you here!


These are all great points. You will likely lose money if you breed responsibly, ESPECIALLY if there are complications such as needing c-sections.
You also have to think about if you're willing to lose your female due to complications from the pregnancy and birthing.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)




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## Mia42 (Sep 5, 2016)

chinchillafuzzy said:


> Did the breeder mention why specifically she wants to breed to Wendy? Good breeders will always have a very good reason for crossing out, usually to improve certain areas of conformation, and after reviewing all health testing including the poodle diversity tests. Is your bitch closely following the standard? Is the dog? MollyMuiMa I believe has a great flow chart that you should look at. If the breeder does not have a lot of very specific reasons for wanting to breed to Wendy, I would say that she is probably just a backyard breeder looking to expand her bloodlines.


She liked the "absence of light" black of her coat, the way she moves, the shape of her face, and her personality. I think the main reasons are that her face got this weird expression when she felt Wendy's back after I said that I have never met a poodle with a coat texture that fit the breed standard better, and then she agreed with my statement. She also liked looking at Wendy's face from all directions possible and making lots of positive comments.

I am looking forward to seeing how Wendy's diversity test comes out. . . And how his compares to it.

And yes, if Wendy fails any of her tests, she is getting fixed and This discussion will be moot. Either way, she is still going to be training for hunting/retrieving.

ETA: Responding to the flow chart specifically. The answer is no to the question in the lower left hand corner. The rest are yes, or at least they will be before breeding


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## barbiespoodle (Apr 25, 2010)

Another thing to mention. Are you willing to do background checks on prospective buyers of the extra pups? 

Even a limited breeding restriction on the pups doesn't mean they won't be used to create doodles is the first thing to come to my mind. 

Second, poodles are not for everyone. My late Chewie was bought because someone wanted a flashy dog and when he turned out to be more work than they expected, he was dumped at the pound knocking on deaths door. I guess he is the main reason I'm posting this, his former owners should have been checked first so he didn't have to go through what he did before I found him.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Standard poodles can have 12 to 14 puppies! Are you ready for that? 

Raising a litter of puppies, even under the best conditions, is hard work. Keeping a large litter clean, groomed, socialized, etc. is a big order. Been there, done that.

I am also put off by someone asking you to breed to her "stud". That's a red flag for me.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Hi Mia -- I raised one litter almost 4 years ago, working with a fabulous breeder who was the owner of the stud. I kept one of the pups (Sam), and Michelle (the breeder) has shown him and is now using him in her breeding program. I am sure that our situation is different from yours in some ways, but maybe some of the things that I encountered will be helpful to you. 

Michelle was our groomer. As my puppy Cammie (from a different breeder) grew, Michelle was quite impressed with her structure, her pedigree and her temperament. I wanted another puppy, and I wanted them to be pretty close in age (2 -3 years). I really liked the fact that Cammie was small (35 pounds) and hoped to have another small standard poodle. To make a long story short, everything sort of fell into place for us to breed Cammie to Michelle's Sting (who is also on the small side). I was able to purchase breeding rights from Cammie's breeder. My agreement with Michelle was that she would be my hands-on mentor, and would be compensated for it (she got a lot more than just a puppy out of the litter). She was there with me every step of the way, and I really really needed her expertise. A few thoughts in no particular order:

-- I actually like the idea of a momma dog who is a much loved pet having her puppies in her own home surrounded by the love and support of her humans. 
-- This is a HUGE amount of work if you do it properly. After all of the puppies went to their new homes, my friends started welcoming me back into their lives. I was completely focused on puppies for the 2 months that they were with me.
-- Things can go wrong. In our case, Cammie needed a c-section on a Friday night. Michelle was with me for 23 hours straight as we tried to have a natural delivery, consulted with my vet and with Michelle's vet, got a shot of petocin, and then finally decided that to go to the 24 hour emergency hospital where we had the c-section. After the c-section, Michelle helped me bring Cammie and the puppies home and get them settled and nursing. Michelle has 20 years of experience in breeding and also experience working as a vet tech. I can't tell you how glad I was to have her with me as we walked through that experience. 
-- Michelle visited the litter frequently and was always available for my many questions. Her experience really helped make things go smoothly.
-- You need to be 100% sure that you can place all of the puppies in good homes. Will the breeder help with finding the homes and with vetting the new owners?
-- Michelle and I were very much on the same page in terms of our basic values. That helped a lot.
-- Breeders normally are willing to take any poodle back if life in their new home does not work out, and they typically are a resource for the puppy buyers throughout the dog's life. In our case, I would take back any of Cammie's puppies in a heartbeat. Michelle and I both keep in touch with the puppy owners and Michelle is also available to them as a resource if they need help with anything. 

It sounds like you have a very nice poodle, and you are carefully evaluating the situation. Best of luck to you.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Any one no on the flow chart leads to no over all. I think there are more reasons not to breed your dog than there are to go ahead and do so. I agree with Johanna, Mysticrealm and barbiespoodles most especially, but overall like Molly, chinchilla and peppersb suggest proceeding with caution if at all.


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