# Conformation and performance question



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Sophy, my papillon, tends to sit with her toes turned out. She does it much less when standing, and not at all when in motion, but is definitely often easty/westy when sitting. She also hates formal jumping - she runs like a hare and climbs like a squirrel, but does not like jumping, so I have stopped taking her to agility classes. I have been wondering if there is a structural issue - any ideas?


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Perhaps structural, but have you considered that it might be her eye sight? Have you had her CERFed?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

cbrand said:


> Perhaps structural, but have you considered that it might be her eye sight? Have you had her CERFed?


Interesting thought, but she can spot a rabbit half way across a field, and recognise which dog walkers are the ones who carry biscuits at the same distance ...

Eye problems (PRA) in papillons are usually the late onset form, and not common in the UK (in fact there has been no recorded case to the best of my knowledge). I was advised to get her tested when she is three+ - unfortunately there isn't a reliable DNA test yet.

The reason I suspect something structural is that when I did persuade her to jump in one class she was very, very stiff and sore next day - so much so that I have stopped all high impact stuff with her. It only lasted a few hours, but I felt horribly guilty for inflicting it on her against what was clearly her better judgement! I was reminded of it by a Springer Spaniel in our Agility class yesterday, who was also very reluctant to jump.


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

Does she enjoy the other agility obstacles? If so, can you just make the jumps non-existent (bar on the floor)? You can also try taking her to a chiropractor and see if adjustment helps. My hardcore agility friend has her dogs worked on regularly. 

If you're interested in pursuing an alternative activity with her, you could try tracking if she likes using her nose.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Good idea, Feralpudel - I hink I might ask my vet to refer me to a chiropractor at her next check up. I think she would love tracking (and lure chasing) but there don't seem to be many classes in the UK, and she loves being in a group doing things. I have been told that once we are going to the "big girls" agility, I can take her and let her have fun doing the bits she likes, with no jumping. I've been trying to find a local RallyO course, too, without success ... I don't really want to compete, but I know she enjoys the special one-to-one time, and meeting other dogs. I looked into the intermediate good citizen course, but that is late in the evening - and Sophy is a believer in early to bed, late to rise!


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## Margotsmom (Jun 6, 2010)

No ideas on the eastie westie, but have you checked for luxating patellas? This could be giving her discomfort or pain when jumping. I have a little Papillon cross who is dealing with some significant issues with mobility due to her luxating patellas. As part of her therapy I just took her to the Chiro and it helped (her hips and a rib were out, probably from her trying to guard her back leg issues).


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Her knees are excellent, thanks Margotsmum - one of the things I checked when she was a pup! I wish I could find a good chiro locally - I would like to know I'd looked into all possibilities.


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

Do paps have spine issues? I know that some of the long bodied breeds like Doxies do, but in my mind's eye, paps are more moderate than that. I ask because if so, I'd be really careful about jumping. I learned from an orthopedic surgeon after my first spoo blew a cervical disk that orthopedic vets hate to see dogs jumping off of beds and sofas.

If it's jumping she doesn't like, it may be more of a front end issue than a rear end issue, since the front absorbs a lot of energy landing in a jump.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I have a gut feeling it is a front end issue, and as you suggest to do with the impact on landing, which is why I wondered if the sitting position could be a clue. I was very, very careful about her jumping when she was a pup (after a tragedy with my first darling papillon that I still cannot bear to talk about), but she would launch herself anyway, as puppies do. She has now persuaded me that hard, slippy floors are not easy to jump up from, so all my furniture has rugs strategically positioned to give secure footing and soft landing. The only joint issue Papillons are really prone to is luxating patella - which is not to say there may not be something non-breed specific going on. It certainly is not apparent except when she is asked to jump more than she wants to - and I learned an important lesson that day about listening to what my dogs try to tell me.


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