# Possible scammer?



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I copied some text from their website and pasted it into google. I specifically chose text that didn't include the word "Poodle."

I think the search results speak for themselves.


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## Nicolebrudner (Mar 29, 2020)

Woah!! Thank you!!! A bunch. That was smart.
So is there anything I should do?


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## Nicolebrudner (Mar 29, 2020)

He asked us to give $250 before we even got to meet the dogs. That makes sense if you are depositing for a puppy not born yet but not live ones who aren’t sold yet. He also said he has many inquires yet still not sold.

Plus he supposedly lived 45 min from us so we told him we could visit anytime. And then he say pay $250 and then you can.... 

Gosh. Thanks so much for checking on that. I appreciate it.
It’s tough to find the right poodle.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Hi and Welcome!

You don't say if you're a first time dog or poodle owner but to get you off on a good foot I'm going to add two links to other threads here on PF and I'm going to add my personal checklist for a breeder.

There are so many unscrupulous people out there, taking advantage of people and puppies to all their detriment.

If you take the time to look thru a few of the breeder websites you'll find on the List, you'll start to see what to look for in a quality, conscientious breeder.

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed. They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better. They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own. They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract. They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them. They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety.

They will have as many questions for me as I do for them. They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.


Breeding Program 
! to maintain, improve, strengthen the breed
by breeding to standard, for health and genetic diversity,
and will prove their dogs meet these standards by showing or competing
or by breeding from titled parents. It's not the title, but what it shows
! focus is on quality, never quantity
! they do not cross breed
! they limit breeding to one to two breeds
! they limit breeding to only a few litters per year

Breeding Parents
! registry information available
AKC Registry Lookup
Dog Search
! not too old or young for breeding
! not overbred
see Asking questions from a breeder
and Frequency of Breeding a Bitch
! genetic health testing done appropriate to breed and variety
! other health testing by exam such as annual eye, hips, patellas
! results of testing on own website, OFA site or testing lab
see Health Related Publications - Versatility In Poodles, Inc.
and OFA Lookup https://www.ofa.org/look-up-a-dog

Living Conditions
! in home with family
! breeder allows, even encourages home visits

Puppies
! routine and urgent vet care, immunizations, dewormings
! socialization
! first groomings
! registry papers
! they will not require spay/neuter before physical maturity
! health "guarantee" generally favors the breeder, not the buyer.
health guarantee is no replacement for health testing of dam and sire.
beginning housetraining is a bonus
temperament testing is helpful

Advertising
! individual website to detail history of breeder, goals for their program
! information on dams, sires, puppies
! no trend pricing for color, gender or size,
! no marketing gimmick terms like "teacup" "royal"

! Anything not found on the website should be provided by breeder before buying

If a breeder wants me to believe that they believe in their dogs, they won't stop the investment when it comes time to find the new families. If they want to cut costs by using free advertising sites like craigslist or listing on retail marketplaces like puppyspot or puppyfind, or other classified ad sites such as newspapers, I wonder what else they've cut costs on.

Contact a few breeders to introduce yourself. Even if they don't have or don't offer what you're looking for, it can be a close knit community. They may know where to refer you.









🐩 Breeders Listed by Location 🐩 Plus Additional Resources 🐩


GEOGRAPHICAL BREEDERS LIST AND ADDITIONAL RESOURCES PLEASE READ THIS FIRST What this list is NOT: This list is not an endorsement of any breeder by Poodle Forum This list is not a list to just go buy from without doing more investigation This list is not comprehensive What this list IS: This...




www.poodleforum.com





The link below is also in the above thread in the Resource area.








Buying a puppy safely - the basics


We have many discussions on here as to what constitutes a really good breeder, and rightly set our standards very high. In an ideal world, everyone would be prepared to research carefully, to build a relationship with an excellent breeder, and be ready to wait as long as it took for the right...




www.poodleforum.com


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

And looking at their website, anytime you see a website that reminds you of this one, I'd say to keep moving.

Things I see that would cause me to remove them from my consideration (and this doesn't cover what I don't see):

They appear to be selling toy poodles before they're 10 weeks old. Toys should be with their mother and littermates, if any, for those 10 weeks. Their health is at risk if taken away too soon.

Their health guarantee is 10 DAYS. But they'll replace a pup that dies in the first year?

Driving to pick up and take home your new pup and see where and how the pup lives and their mother (and dad if he's their own) is incredibly important. Driving a new pup home is no more unsafe for the new family than it is for them.
They "handle the delivery of our puppies by ourselves". This just might be to keep you from seeing how they keep their dogs and raise the pups.
Airline shipping is probably the riskiest choice. This makes me wonder who's interests they're looking out for.

Toy litters are usually no more than two pups. They currently have at least 9 pups available, from 7-9 weeks old. That could mean a litter or more a week.

And "bat ears" for a toy poodle?


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## Nicolebrudner (Mar 29, 2020)

I appreciate the feedback! This website has been so helpful.
I reached out to the site that has similar dogs and the same set up and they emailed me the SAME email as the other place. 
Do I report them somewhere?


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

Maybe to the FTC or BBB? Not sure on the process though.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

The USDA regulates breeders over a certain size. You can report abusive conditions via their web site at USDA APHIS | Animal Welfare. Keep in mind that puppy mills and puppy brokers are not illegal. The USDA is concerned about the most basic animal welfare needs - food, water, cleanliness, temperature, vet care.


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## Nicolebrudner (Mar 29, 2020)

Who should I report to then?

My husband spoke to one of them on the phone this morning and he was trying to get him to pay the $250 and wouldn’t let us come down and my husband told him he believed it was a scam, and the man said he was very busy and needed to go. Lol so.....

Is there anywhere I should report them to? They’re trying to scam $250 out of people who are looking for dogs


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

Anywhere that tells you a 7 week old toy poodle is potty trained is certainly a scam! But at least he's good with monkeys...  

Another flag here is the price. No well bred toy poodle will cost $550. Run run run. I would be looking for something more in the range of $2.5k from a reputable breeder. I wouldn't look at anything less than $1500.

Rose n Poos has great advice.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Lots of helpful info here:


https://www.usa.gov/stop-scams-frauds


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## PipersMama (Jun 25, 2020)

Nicolebrudner said:


> I appreciate the feedback! This website has been so helpful.
> I reached out to the site that has similar dogs and the same set up and they emailed me the SAME email as the other place.
> Do I report them somewhere?
> View attachment 467682
> View attachment 467684


If you cannot go to where the puppies are being raised and see them and the parents, even though you live close enough to do so, I would RUN the other way! Definitely puppy mill breeders, in my opinion!


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

We all understand about not spending more than necessary when it comes to purchasing anything but beware of false economy.
The world of puppy buying has changed significantly and scarily in many ways in the last 50 or so years, since my family brought home our first poodle puppy.
There are two extremes with levels in between but there is a pretty clear dividing line between them.
The low end is mass produced with little or no quality control, little or nothing invested in the development of the stock, basically a throw away product if something goes wrong.
The high end is a handcrafted product that the creator has invested years in, learning their craft, using the best materials and standing behind their creation for it's lifetime.
Am I talking about puppies? Yes I am. The high end has always been about quality, the low end has always been about profit.
Finding a quality breeder who will stand with you thru the life of the puppy is worth every penny. They invest in their dogs to send the best puppies they can to their new families.
Still, there are no guarantees that a pup won't develop a health or other issue, but the odds can be improved significantly by going with a quality breeder.

Suppose the puppy develops a serious condition whch could have been tested for in it's parents and it will cost several thousand dollars to fix?


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## FloofyPoodle (May 12, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> But at least he's good with monkeys...


Obviously the most important quality to have in a puppy! 😂


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Nicolebrudner said:


> Who should I report to then?
> 
> My husband spoke to one of them on the phone this morning and he was trying to get him to pay the $250 and wouldn’t let us come down and my husband told him he believed it was a scam, and the man said he was very busy and needed to go. Lol so.....
> 
> Is there anywhere I should report them to? They’re trying to scam $250 out of people who are looking for dogs


I agree this looks really suspicious. Why would they need customs paperwork for a puppy that is too young to be legally imported? Criminal fraud is a matter for local law enforcement. The difficulty is the proof. Asking for a deposit is not a crime. Selling an ill-bred badly socialized puppy isn't a crime either, although it is certainly loathsome. Right now you've got a whole lot of smoke but no actual fire. I suppose you could report it to your local law enforcement on the non-911 line, but they might not be willing or able to do much if nobody has been an actual victim of fraud.


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## Nicolebrudner (Mar 29, 2020)

Thank you all so much for your response!

We have a $400 deposit right now with another breeder who I speak with often. 
We were looking for possibly another one and came Across that website.
It is unfortunate and I hope that no one falls for it. 
And yes, my favorite part was also “good with monkeys.” 😂
Thanks, again everyone!! I really appreciate this community


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