# Foes anyone do Rally?



## fjm

I'm starting a short Rally course with Poppy on Monday - any tips to make sure we both get maximum enjoyment from it? She is very food motivated, and loves getting my attention all to herself, so should enjoy an hour working with me and a pocketful of treats!


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## lily cd re

fjm, you and Poppy will have lots of fun at rally! I know you know very well how to keep her attention on you and that is really the key to rally. The other thing is for you to pay attention to where you are supposed to go and what the signs mean. When you get to the point where there is a whole course laid out, walk it like Poppy is with you and do everything you will do when you run it with her. I am an obsessive walker both for rally and for agility.

Most of all have fun!


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## CT Girl

FJM, that is great. I just started taking lessons to do rally. I know Lily does it, I watched her compete in Hamden and it has inspired me to try it. I have only had two classes so I. Don't know what useful tips I can offer. Swizzle seems to enjoy the class. A lot of the signs I am sure you and Poppy know how to do but rally will help sharpen up your skills. You can talk to your dog as much as you want and the signs are numbered so it is more laid back then competition obedience. Let us know how you like it.


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## poolann

It is fun! All 3 of mine have enjoyed it. Poodles seem to enjoy the "spotlight" more that my shepherds. Racer wags his tail & smiles through the entire course at trials. Enjoy the bonding time!

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## schpeckie

I have started Sadie in Rally back in January, and she absolutely loves it! Creates a bond with her and of course little treats! It is simply amazing how she caught on so fast, we are already in the advanced class! Lacey on the other hand, has to stay home and wait for her sister. She is more of the "playful princess"!

Sylvia & the Girls!


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## liljaker

I want to start with Sunny, as soon as I can find a place on the weekends near me. Can't wait!!! He is always 200% focused on me and responds well, so I think it would be fun for him.


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## fjm

Thanks all - and sorry for the typo in the title! It's a 3 week introductory class and not far away, so seemed like a good opportunity. I have realised that Sophy quickly gets bored with games with rules that she considers unimportant (if sitting gets a treat at point A, why the hell should I have to lie down at point B?! Make your mind up... this is boring... I'll wait for you in the car!). Hide a treat and she will spend half an hour working out how to get from the settee to the chair to the table to pull the magazine an inch so that it drops onto the floor, as long as nobody intervenes to "help". Sophy is not keen on organised activities! Poppy, on the other hand, likes direction and quickly gives up if left without guidance - probably all those years of being bossed by Sophy. I am always on the look out for ways of bolstering her self confidence, and Rally sounds ideal.

Are there any cues we need to work on in advance, apart from the basics like Heel, Sit and Down? Stand, for example?


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## poolann

fjm said:


> Thanks all - and sorry for the typo in the title! It's a 3 week introductory class and not far away, so seemed like a good opportunity. I have realised that Sophy quickly gets bored with games with rules that she considers unimportant (if sitting gets a treat at point A, why the hell should I have to lie down at point B?! Make your mind up... this is boring... I'll wait for you in the car!). Hide a treat and she will spend half an hour working out how to get from the settee to the chair to the table to pull the magazine an inch so that it drops onto the floor, as long as nobody intervenes to "help". Sophy is not keen on organised activities! Poppy, on the other hand, likes direction and quickly gives up if left without guidance - probably all those years of being bossed by Sophy. I am always on the look out for ways of bolstering her self confidence, and Rally sounds ideal.
> 
> Are there any cues we need to work on in advance, apart from the basics like Heel, Sit and Down? Stand, for example?


Maybe you could start fronts & finishes? They have to be able to finish in both directions for rally & there is not always a sit at the end unlike obedience. Also drops...where they down without sitting first.

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## lily cd re

Yes to stand and make it a kick back stand with her not moving her front feet so she stays at correct heel position. Also, as poolann suggests call front with finish to right and left.


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## mvhplank

fjm said:


> <snip>
> Are there any cues we need to work on in advance, apart from the basics like Heel, Sit and Down? Stand, for example?


Someone already mentioned fronts and finishes, so I won't repeat that advice. Start by looking at the full set of signs in whatever venue you're tackling ... and (excuse the shout) READ THE RULES! Each sign has rules, and the venue as a whole has rules and regulations that you actually claim to have read when you sign an entry form. 

Know how many times you may give a cue "for free"--in UKC (where I am a provisional judge), you aren't charged for extra cues, but if your dog just looks at you while you say, "Sit! Sit! Sit!", you'll get dinged with a "slow response" penalty. In APDT (now WCRL), where I went to my very first trial ever, it costs you 3 points for every extra cue (the first one is free) and you can NQ on one station if you have to keep giving commands. I haven't done so much AKC, but it has its own quirks. (I'm taking my poodle boy to try AKC Rally Novice and Beginner Novice this coming weekend.)

Things you can do at home are to practice what one judge called "Rally in a Box," which she does in her tiny New York apartment: Left pivot, right pivot, about turn left, about turn right, one step forward, one step back--in any order you like. I throw these in on our outdoor walks--you'll want to be able to perform with distractions, too. Also walk-arounds, either with a down or a sit. Also transitions, sit-stand, sit-down-sit, and so on.

WCLR has bonus exercises, where you can add 10 points to your score with no penalty for trying the exercise--they're worth spending a little extra time on!

Several venues have a variation of the 1 step-sit-2 steps-sit-3 steps-sit both moving forward and backing up (you back up, the dog comes front). So you need to work on that too.

Practicing the signs when you're out on a walk makes it more fun than just going out for a stroll--enjoy!


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## CT Girl

Any suggestions on how to teach stand?


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## mvhplank

CT Girl said:


> Any suggestions on how to teach stand?


I started with a treat lure, which is easy to transition to a hand signal.


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## DreamAgility

Keep it positive, happy, fast, and enjoyable. I have lerned never to say no to my dogs unless the are doing something bad rather than a mistake. Just say "oops!" and move on with a correction. Lots of small treats and praise.
Don't let her be sloppy from the beginning- the way they learn it is the way they will always preform it. So, keep her stiched to your heel while heeling and make those fronts as square as you can


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## lily cd re

CT Girl, ideally you want a kick back stand so make sure Swizzle's front feet don't move when luring up from sit. This way dog will still be at heel when standing as they were when they were sitting.


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## CT Girl

Catherine, I am sorry I don't understand what you mean by a kick back stand.


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## poolann

The dog is in a sit & stands moving their rear end only. So they sort of push up with their back end pushing their feet out behind them (kickback). I can try to get my husband to take a video of Racer doing it tomorrow. 

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## CT Girl

Poolann, that would be great. I have worked on luring Swizzle to a stand but it is just not clicking. He really does not understand. I wish I had known to teach this when he was a puppy.


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## mvhplank

poolann said:


> The dog is in a sit & stands moving their rear end only. So they sort of push up with their back end pushing their feet out behind them (kickback). I can try to get my husband to take a video of Racer doing it tomorrow.


That's certainly a snappier-looking move, but not strictly a requirement, since position isn't judged as strictly as in obedience (but it may depend on the judge). So don't do it over if the dog performs the requested action--that will cost more than OOP (out of position).

The other "nice to have" move is the tucked sit, which is sort of a backwards kick-back stand--the dog's back feet move forward to the stationary front feet. Many dogs, mine included, default to the "rock-back" sit, so a lot of practice is required with both stand and sit to get it into muscle memory.

One more thing to keep in mind if you do start competing--for one, you'll often find people willing to help! I've met some terrific friends through Rally. At my very first trial, I said to a friendly-looking lady that it was my first competition ever and I didn't know how to sign in--she immediately explained how things worked and introduced me around. I was made to feel VERY welcome.

Enjoy playing with your dog!


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## mvhplank

CT Girl said:


> Poolann, that would be great. I have worked on luring Swizzle to a stand but it is just not clicking. He really does not understand. I wish I had known to teach this when he was a puppy.


I find it hard to use a clicker too, so I use a marker word, usually "Yes," and give a treat. That may help him understand. Repetition is your friend.


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## poolann

I will try to demo how we teach in class as far as food position with the lure. Also will show clicker when I do it. We need to go back to practicing on a wall because he loves to sit crooked so he can look at me & almost always ends up out of position. I'm not super picky with my dogs (reference videos I have posted lol). DH has agreed to help but it is still 29 degrees outside right now. 

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## lily cd re

You can get the dog to stand any way you want, but you are more likely to lose a point or two for OOP if you don't use a kick back stand. If you are looking to place consistently keeping the dog at proper heel will help. poolann thanks for responding about this with the potential for video. I am leaving for rally nationals tomorrow and it is hectic here and at work right now.


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## mvhplank

lily cd re said:


> <snip) poolann thanks for responding about this with the potential for video. I am leaving for rally nationals tomorrow and it is hectic here and at work right now.


Good luck! You'll be about an hour's drive away from my house, but I'll be out testing the waters in AKC at the Mason & Dixon trials near Hagerstown--the poodle boy's first tries at Rally Novice and Beginner Novice. Could be interesting ....


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## fjm

Well, I don't think Poppy and I will be entering any competitions in the foreseeable future, but she had lots of fun, coped well with the rather reactive dog next to us, and slept like a log all night after her exertions, so as far as I am concerned it was a great success!


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## mvhplank

fjm said:


> Well, I don't think Poppy and I will be entering any competitions in the foreseeable future, but she had lots of fun, coped well with the rather reactive dog next to us, and slept like a log all night after her exertions, so as far as I am concerned it was a great success!


Well, there you go!  :happy:


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## poolann

fjm said:


> Well, I don't think Poppy and I will be entering any competitions in the foreseeable future, but she had lots of fun, coped well with the rather reactive dog next to us, and slept like a log all night after her exertions, so as far as I am concerned it was a great success!


That's the main point. Glad you both enjoyed it!

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## poolann

Racer stand - YouTube

Ok here you go. No where close to perfect but you get the idea. Also the audio & video are out of sync. I promise I am not that late with clicks/reward lol


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## CT Girl

This is excellent, thank you so much! So a kick back stand has the dog pop up his rear end while his front two legs just stay in heel position. Now I know how to practice effectively. It was very kind of you to take this video.


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## lily cd re

fjm said:


> Well, I don't think Poppy and I will be entering any competitions in the foreseeable future, but she had lots of fun, coped well with the rather reactive dog next to us, and slept like a log all night after her exertions, so as far as I am concerned it was a great success!


fjm, so sorry the competitive streak in some of us sort of hijacked your thread. I am glad you and Poppy had fun testing the waters. Maybe you will go back to it again sometime. The important thing is for the activities we do with our dogs to strengthen our relationships with them, which all of the sports I do with Lily have done. Sleepy dog worked hard and learned good life lessons (like dealing with reactive neighbor) and had fun with mom to boot!

If somebody else wants to start a new thread for rally competitors where we can exchange ideas, that would be great. If nobody else does it before we get back from Harrisburg then I will do so.


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## blacky55667

I have done a little rally with Ted and I really like it!!! The signs can be a little confusing though...


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## fjm

Very confusing indeed for some of us! Not to say how giddy we got practicing circles and part circles. Poppy thought it was all good fun though, and it looks as though there may be more classes - I may even try with Sophy, although it will probably just get me The Look. Sophy prefers games where she makes up the rules and I learn them...


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## lily cd re

fjm said:


> I may even try with Sophy, although it will probably just get me The Look. Sophy prefers games where she makes up the rules and I learn them...


Sounds like Sophy has you wrapped around her little pinky toe!

But, fyi blacky, we have started a performance oriented rally thread. If you ever have questions about what a particular sign means you are supposed to do , post there and someone will answer.

http://www.poodleforum.com/24-performance-agility-obedience-hunting/92834-rally-competition-questions-training.html


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## Raven's Mom

Lily de re, how old is Lily now? All those tiles are so impressive, just wondering how long you have been working on them. How did you get started? I have Raven registered to start beginning obedience in May. I have never taken a dog beyond the advanced beginner but I am planning to keep going this time. Raven is sooo smart I know she needs the outlet!


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## lily cd re

Raven's Mom, thank you for asking. Lily is about 5 1/2 now. She is< like nearly all poodles, very smart. She also has drive to rival a border collie. Working in performance sports with her is a very important outlet for her energy and intelligence. We took two beginner classes at our local chain pet store with the second one finishing when she was about 8 months old. In the weeks leading up to her first birthday we took a CGC class at our local obedience club (that I didn't know existed when we did the intro classes at the pet store). She passed her CGC (so did Peeves at the same time) a week after her first birthday. I started training for her novice obedience title right after that and entered our first trial about a year later (2 years old). We didn't qualify, so I took about 6 months more before I entered again and started qualifying. She got her CD (novice title just after she turned 3). Her CDX title was around when she was 4. We are going to see how utility looks at PCA and then reevaluate. She has sailed through rally and it has helped me keep her ring savvy in this long interval between open and utility. We sort of fit agility in on the side in some ways. She loves it, but I don't have enough distance work with her yet to balance her speed and my lack of it. I do think that the away work in utility is helping with distance work for agility.

That's probably way more of an answer than you were looking for. If you want to talk more about some of what I've done send me a PM.


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## fjm

You are absolutely right, Lily cd re - experience has proven that Sophy is Nearly Always Right, so these days I don't sweat the small stuff with her. She has excellent manners, listens to me when it is important, and I let her make up her own mind when it comes to playing games! Who knows, she may prove me wrong and decide that Rally is one organised activity she actually enjoys - she liked Agility except for jumping and weaving (she doesn't jump, which made it hard to progress!); she quickly got bored with the Scent work class because it had a lower rate of reward then her version; and the last obedience class we did she would ace the first 40 minutes or so, and then decide she had done her bit and take the first opportunity of going to talk to the other dogs. I have to say that Poppy, who loves being told what to do, is much easier to work with!


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## lily cd re

fjm, of course Poppy is easy to work. I think poodles live to please their people. If is funny that you have such trouble getting Sophy to engage. Over on my side of the pond there are huge numbers of Paps in agility especially, but other performance sports as well. I know someone who is working on a UDX with one of her Papillons right now. I guess Sophy does know what's best for Sophy! lol


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## fjm

When Sophy is good she is very, very good, but I think the problem really arose over jumping. She has some physiological issue that meant that it hurt at least some of the time, but it was nothing obvious enough to be readily apparent (in fact nothing has ever been diagnosed, despite several attempts, although the slipped disc last year could have been connected), with the result that I spent weeks trying to motivate her to jump, and she spent weeks finding every possible way around an obstacle without jumping. I think it taught her that there are several solutions to every problem, and the one the human suggests is not necessarily the right one for her...! She now weighs the pros and cons - she wil have her attention rivetted on me for just so long as something interests her, and as soon as it does not I have to be very quick to change the activity and the reward before she turns off and looks elsewhere. 

I suspect that, while most poodles seem to get great pleasure from pleasing their humans, many Paps may do agility etc because it pleases them! I know Sophy particularly likes the A-frame, and other equipment that gives her a high up view of the world, and I've noticed other Paps pause for a look around once they are up high enough. There is a whole team of Papillons doing very well in agility here, as well as many individuals (and an increasing number of small poodles) - which is why I hoped it would be something she would enjoy.


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## blacky55667

I'd just like to say... I <3 RALLY its even better if you have a small dog because you can whip around turns! :bolt:


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## spindledreams

grin my hear Oops try again as their cue that the behavior was not the one I will treat for. Sit, down, stand position changes in place are often called puppy pushups  be sure you mix up the order of the commands. Sits should be front legs stay in place moves hind legs up to front legs. I have a thread somewhere asking how to teach it as opposed to the rock back sit they learn as puppies. There is a great link in that thread.


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