# Changes! Adapting back to apartment life



## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

My 9 mo spoo and I are moving back from my mom's house, where we have lived for 5 months, into my apartment. I am at the apartment with her this weekend, moving back full time next week. And I am starting back to work part time, moving to full time in a month or two. 

Based on the last day, I think this is going to be harder on Annie -and me!- than I anticipated. Any advice or suggestions appreciated, I want to start this out right!!! 

So, challenges of apartments-anyone have suggestions of how to solve them ?
1) noises and the consequent alert barking 
2) exercise 
3) boredom and enrichment
4) less time with me 

Since we moved out when she was 4 mo, the renovations on the downstairs apartment have been finished, and new tenants have moved in. I met one of the people and.... he is a senior, and terrified of dogs.

My landlord previously complained when he was renovating about how loud my vacuum is; the floors are thin. 

Annie is NOT accustomed to having someone live underneath her. She alert barks occasionally when she hears them shut cupboards, open the front door, etc. There is also a dog in the backyard behind my bedroom window that howls and barks at all hours of the day or night.

One option I am considering is switching my bedroom and living room so we are not above their bedroom, and not overlooking the barky dog. But then we would be overlooking the noisy street. 

I am managing barking with "hush, puppy, shh, thank you "... and treats and sit/down practice when we hear someone, and a radio playing static noise. When they were being loud earlier, I gave her a plate to lick to distract her. This has been fine in daytime, but... she is hypervigilant at night. I would consider adding rugs to muffle noise but... she peed on one 4 weeks ago at a relatives house, and occasionally chews the doormat at mom's when bored and ignored :ahhhhh: 

For exercise.... currently at Mom's she gets about 45 min to 1 hr at the local dog park most nights(or a long walk or hike in the conservation area), and a short walk during the day, and brain stimulation from spending a lot of time outside on moms fenced porch and tiny dog yard, and playing toys with me and Mom's dog. Yes, yes, I know, dog park, but it's a small town membership only park where problematic dogs are told quite firmly to not return, and there are never more than 5 dogs, and everyone recognizes each other by car and dog. We play "find the human" in the trees and practice heeling and things when there are no other dogs. I have been reducing the dog park visits to every other day to get her used to more walking, less playing. 

The medium sized city I live in only has 1 dog park which is quite busy and treeless.... I do not intend to bring her there. I have taken her on 4 short to medium walks today, one outing to the vet to get her weighed, and one off leash walk and ball playing game in an old trainyard, and she is still telling me she is bored, and too unsettled to play tug. I am not in a good mood to train, so I gave her a cream cheese stuffed kong which settled her a bit. 

I am also hoping to enroll her in local dog sport classes, depending on what fits our schedule. 

She currently is also barking at the top of the stairs to go outside when she is bored as well. I need to find an alternate behaviour, because I do not want to reward that one! We have tried to introduce bells to go out a few times, and she hasn't gotten it, yet.

Brilliant people of poodleforum, what do you think? More exercise ideas?? Boredom enrichment? Bark reduction strategies? Apartment living strategies?


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

As far as alert barking to noises, I'd set up some scenarios in an otherwise quiet place...like at your mom's where you control the noises. You can sit on the floor and knock on the door (if that arouses her) and immediately click treat. Or whatever marker word you use, ie: "yes!!!" and treat. Create some other sounds...sounds that emulate what she's likely to hear in the apartment. Get people to help you if need be to create sounds but when YOU arrange it and tell them to. Again, click/treat. So you're teaching her that all these weird noises equal getting a yummy treat. When she starts anticipating and looking at you for a treat, add a cue. (not before) Perhaps, "quiet." Start moving in different areas of the house and finally, try it outside. So no matter where you are, these sounds can happen but good things follow. That's one method. There are others. So, after she's onto this game, you want to increase the pressure on her gradually. You will try for more duration between her bark, quiet and the treat. She needs to be quiet a little longer because at first she'll probably just start barking again right away. So she has to be quiet for 2 seconds, then 3, then 5 and so on before she gets the treat. If she breaks that and can't hold it, go back to where she was successful. 

I recommend reading the book Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson. It has a lot of exceedingly good info. And in it is described a very good method to teach a dog to quiet on cue. But it takes some real diligence and stick to 'itness. And it really works well. I used that method with my Chihuahuas several years ago. (I don't have them anymore) RIP. Also, re-directing to something else she can do instead and be rewarded for helps when she's barking, like at the top of the stairs. Just try to intercept that barking so she doesn't get to practice that too much. 

I don't know what kind of exercise you're doing with her. But whatever you can do without over doing it would be good. No repetitive exercise for a while yet. Playing, fetching (if she doesn't know how, teach her. Look it up) That's good brain exercise. Lots of things to stimulate her brain...obedience training, tricks, find it. Teach her things that will be handy, like leave it, etc if you haven't already. So anything that makes her think, uses her instincts like finding something with a certain scent on it, teach her stay and work up to hiding behind something. Anything you want...it's all good to tire her out too. And satisfy her needs. Be sure to continue with socialization...visit new places whenever you can. Make everything, everyone you meet pleasurable associations. That...physical and mental exercise will take care of the boredom and enrichment. 

You can practice now less time with you. Take care of her physical and mental exercise first thing if possible before you go out...just a short time even. And gradually lengthen the time you're gone. If you're going to be gone more than about 4 or 5 hours, (will she have to be in a crate? if so, I'd limit that to no more than 4) see if someone can take her out for a romp/potty and/or a little walk. It's awfully hard on them I think when they're very young to be left for too many hours. So do try to work something out for that. I'm sure others will chime in with some more ideas.


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## bluegirl1997 (Aug 10, 2019)

I know what you mean because my two standard poodles are very alert and bark. Just wondering, do you have any friends with homes and dogs Annie could go to to play with while you're gone? Like doggy daycare only cheaper because theyre your friends? A side benefit is she'll come home happy and tired

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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

You can try white noise at night. The have white noise machines on Amazons for about 20$.

She will get used to the noise under her but it might take a while. I have my son coming home on the week-ends. After a year Beckie is just starting to bark less when he comes upstairs. It might be faster for your dog, as the noise is more constant.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would start by making friends with your new neighbours. There will inevitably be issues with barking etc, and you want them to talk to you and not to your landlord. If they know you are receptive to their worries, and doing all you can to mitigate problems, they are far less likely to be antagonistic and will be more able to cope if woken in the night, or disturbed by frequent noises through the day. 

Washable rugs and runners with a non slip underlay, thick curtains, throws and other soft furnishings would all help soften sounds for you and for your neighbours. 

I would also look into opportunities for daycare, or anything else that gets her out exercising for a few hours while you are working, and find places that you can safely let her run off leash even if it means a bit of a drive. Brain work can help tire a dog out, but at 9 months she really needs to run and play too. In the meantime get her used to your absence gradually. A really good walk, with a run if possible, then leave her for a short time with some form of monitoring to check if she barks, and gradually build up to the hours you will be at work. If she is not crate trained, or if you will be gone more than a couple of hours, I would make her a comfortable den in the bathroom and teach her that is her safe place - you can put everything not to be chewed out of reach, give her bed, water, kong and pee pad, and set up white noise if necessary (if the room has an extractor fan that may be enough).


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I think it will work out but it may take a little time. I have had some issues between my legs and now my back that has made for less exercise for my standard who will be 2 in Dec. He seems fine with it. In the morning he goes out, does his business and we come in and he gets his breakfast. Then I usually come here on the computer. After he eats he just goes to sleep for about and hour maybe 2. I then take him out again and when we come in we will just do some minor re training on sit or I may have hi heel next to me as I do a few things in the kitchen or laundry. After that I gate him in our front room and frankly he would sleep there with his basket of toys till 3 in the afternoon. He has no real interest in running about. But in the afternoon I take him back out to potty and then we have playtime. He loves to run with a ball. So I have two balls, when he returns with one he sits, I tell him drop it, he does and I may add a few things like down, sit again heel to my side, then I say free to him and he knows I will throw the ball again. We do this for about an hour and there are times he just will run around and play on his own too while I sit out there. When we come in he has a little drink and then just rests for about an hour or two before he gets his dinner. After that he sits with me and we watch the tv or I read. One more time out and about 8:30 I put him in his crate for bed. Now he probably could sleep with me now but I chose not to yet as I have 3 other dogs that need attention in the am and he gets to distracted with them to behave properly and since one is very small and very old I do not let them interact. I think the idea of white noise or radio is a good one and should help him relax. Once you have a schedule with him I think it will work out fine, they seem to all like to have a schedule and pretty much follow it. Oh when mine barks when someone goes past the front of my house or he hears a barking dog when we walk I just tell him what it is and say ok good boy now come here. He stops and its over. Good luck and I know at 9 months its a little difficult time anyway but he will get it.


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## Nahama (Aug 4, 2019)

Dechi said:


> You can try white noise at night. The have white noise machines on Amazons for about 20$.



I agree with the white noise recommendation, for the day as well. A/C, fans, noisy heaters, radio on classical or talk channel - have all worked well for me. 

I also agree that getting rugs will dampen the sounds. If she pees on them, you can clean them with something like Nature's Miracle. You could get inexpensive ones with the plan to replace them in a couple of years when she is older. 

Years ago I moved from a big house in the city to a smaller house in a village (which I loved, my city street had nearby developments and was getting very noisy all day and night). I loved the new place, but our house on one side was right next to neighbors, and the front of the house was right on the sidewalk. My two Maltese at the time went crazy barking at everyone they saw out the window, and my neighbor complained that when I was away, they were incessant. My solution was to have white noise when I was away so they would be more relaxed and less sensitive to other sounds. The house had a fantastic upstairs loft-style room, so I confined them upstairs (free roaming, but gated) when I was out. They became very relaxed and much quieter after that. 

We now live on a nature preserve surrounded by woods - so no noise worries - Amor and Willow don't react to wildlife. Even so, Willow was reactive to all sounds when she joined our family, but it didn't take too long for her to settle in and realize that those are simply "life sounds," and not bark-worthy. 

Good Luck!



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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I wouldn’t get carpet as it interferes with housebreaking, no matter how well you clean. And you might end up with a dog who soils the house permanently. Peeing on soft bedding is natural for a dog, so why risk it ?


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Thank you everyone for all the ideas!!!!

Man, I love this dog. Annie tells me to stop worrying. She slept through the night, no barking after i posted this. She woofed to tell me it was outside time at 630 when the neighbours woke up, then woofed softly once at the sounds of them getting ready. I thanked her, praised her when she stopped, then we wandered off to the kitchen and she settled in for a nice chew of her cream cheese stuffed kong while she listened to them, then went back to sleep. She pricked her ears and sat up when the neighbours dog was howling, got praised and refused treats. No barking. Good puppy!!! I am sure she won't be perfect, but this is way better than I expected based on yesterday. 

Poodlebeguiled - I will keep working more on the look away/pay attention to me thing. She is all or nothing, and does not WANT treats when she is busy being alert to noise. I struggle to catch her attention, and then when i have it, its 100% and i struggle to get her to look away/notice the distraction again. She is very good at the basic dog obedience/leave it/stay/hide and seek stuff. I tried feeding her dinner by spilling it all over the floor so she had to sniff it out, and that was apparently a fun game. Unfortunately, quiet is not something I can practice at Moms. I mean, I have been practicing it, but with mom's dog, who has a far lower threshold to start barking than mine. Mine sleeps through construction and trades people banging around, no problem, then joins in when mom's dog starts barking. When moms dog isnt there, she alerts to people driving into our driveway, someone opening the gate, passersby if she is outside and sees them, and that's about it. I actually like her alerting to those things (other than passersby) because I like the warning when tradespeople arrive 1.5 hrs early and i am in a towel lol. I might be able to get a coworker to visit so we can practice doorbells and door knocking here though. For socialization, she goes anywhere even vaguely dog friendly with me. Canadian tire, trains, buses, my old university's buildings, hardware stores, many pet stores, car dealerships, the mechanic, etc. We do need to find large crowds for practice, but I hate large crowds too!

Bluegirl - Alas, no friends or relatives nearby, and doggy daycare only accepts spayed dogs. She won't be spayed for another 3 to 8 months. 

Dechi/Nahama - Good idea on white noise. I think I will go out today and buy a fan for the kitchen, living room, and bedroom. There are ceiling fans, but they are silent. 

I haven't decided if she will be crated yet.... she is crate trained, and eats her dinner there every night, and is crated when I am going out for more than a half hr. Longest she has been crated is 6 hrs or so. I work a 5 min drive away... previously I came home at lunch to let her out, and she stayed in two exercise pens i joined together. I haven't brought her crate this time, so she has been given the run of the hall and kitchen when I am away. So far no issues but.... not sure I want to tempt her. 

Fjm - Yes, I do need to get to know the neighbours. They have my cell number, and we have texted some, and they seem like decent people. Just not dog people, which is a bit of a disappointment ( I was secretly hoping for someone I would trust to let my dog out in an emergency).I will also look to see if I can get an indoor/outdoor carpet runner for the hall, to quiet down her running so we can play fetch a bit, and a rug for the bedroom. I might even look for tension rod cafe curtains to block inquisitive poodles from seeing out when the blinds are open. We do have an abandoned train yard nearby. It's about 1.5 km x .5 km, and I use it as an off leash area to run/play in. I will keep an eye out for other options. 

Mufar- Annie wakes me up in the middle of the night if she didn't get enough exercise the day before. I have been off work due to a lot of chronic pain, so the dog park has been wonderful. Fetch is a good idea for fun at the trainyard on bad days for me. She loves chasing her soccer ball, but retrieving is hit or miss.

I think the major noise is running up and down the stairs, as there is no soundproofing there. I am teaching her she only gets to go out if she gets her leash on at the top of the stairs to discourage her from playing there. Tried a babygate, which clattered and fell.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Well, I screwed up. I honestly don't know how I will be able to get her to relax she thinks this apartment is a jail where she gets left behind. 

Last week when I didn't have the crate here I accidentally left her alone for 4 hrs (errand took much longer than expected and bad traffic). I figured she would be fine because I had left her for 2 hrs previous day with no issues. She was frantic when I got home. I did the not make a big deal thing, and the next morning tried to put her behind a baby gate to grab stuff from my car. She went nuts. It was 7 am so I went to her (sleeping neighbours). Wrong move. Tied her outside while I carried stuff in. Tried leaving her later that day again to get one last thing... Went nuts again, scratching at door. Waited for a 10 s quiet before opening the door. 

Went home to mom's, she was completely fine being left in her crate when I went shopping or whatever.

Took crate back here Wednesday and have been working on positive associations. Crate is the source of all good things like Kong's and chicken etc. Leaving treats in it for her to find. Fine. Have been walking up and down my stairs with her in it, even went outside twice and she was fine. Played with my keys while she was in the crate too.

I did it for real today(adding in keys) to go grab a bag. Could hear her howling from street. She refuses to settle/lie down at all in her crate, even when I have left her there for an hour with me at home, or with me lying on the bed beside the crate. 

I have been working in requiring a down before she gets out, and her to remain down through a bunch of treats but.... Still not voluntary. 

Seriously, I am so worried about Monday morning! And I really need to get groceries and don't want to bring her in the car! unfortunately the female downstairs neighbour stays at home all day and has no car to leave. If they would ever be gone I would just leave her and go and let her cry but they haven't both been gone since I got here.

She is fine being left in the car, fine being left at mom's, fine being left tied out outside... 

Well,I am off to practice leaving again...


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Sounds like she's got a pretty strong case of separation anxiety going on. You might want to consult a certified behaviorist and see if she has any ideas for you.

One thing you can do is play some confidence building games. (Google) And I _again_ recommend Culture Clash because she has a good chapter on how to go about desensatizing a dog gradually to being left alone. I would take a couple of days to get it if you order off Amazon. I highly recommend you get on it asap before her brain gets too wired in to this.https://www.amazon.com/Culture-Clash-Revolutionary-Understanding-Relationship-ebook/dp/B00A2XQ17Q


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Thanks Poodle beguiled. I have ordered the book. I will try to find a behaviourist if I can't fix this in the next day or two. 

Since posting this I have gotten her up to 4 Min of me on the porch or going for a walk down the street, and just went out, turned on the car, and turned it off and came back in without issue. She has also started lying down in her crate a bit. I am trying to get her used to the steps of me leaving. Probably could have gone longer but am trying to get ahead of the howling/crying, and make me going out the door boring, and not worthy of her interest. I am really hoping to keep her from making this a habit too! I have country music playing on the radio now which is possibly helping. I am practicing me leaving with her both in and out of her crate. 

Part of this is probably me... I take a weekly med that knocks me out for a day. That day is today, so I would normally be lying on the couch, not trying to train my dog ? I am exhausted, and she is probably reading some of that anxiety off of me.

As for confidence building... she is a sensitive dog, but pretty confident.We went to the farmers market this morning, and the dog park this afternoon (trying to tire her brain and body out so that she will lie down and sleep in her crate). We do games, investigate stuff she is nervous of, run off leash, play hide and seek, are working on just for fun tricks (intermediate level of DMWYD) , etc.... Her tail is almost always up and happy or relaxed. I googled but didn't find any good articles about confidence games. 

Any specific games you would recommend?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

You should also film her while she is left alone. Beckie also howls, but not for long, and not constantly. 

Maybe your baby does it 3 minutes and stops, in which case the neighbors would be more understanding.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Thanks Dechi, good idea. I know she cried when she was a baby and I left for work but I used to stay on the porch until she stopped and it was never more than 3 Min. there were no downstairs tenants then though! My landlord was working on the place for a few hrs each day and I asked him to tell me if she cried while I was away and he never said anything.
When I pick up groceries tonight I will put on the voice recorder and see what I am really dealing with.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Thanks Dechi, good idea. I know she cried when she was a baby and I left for work but I used to stay on the porch until she stopped and it was never more than 3 Min. there were no downstairs tenants then though! My landlord was working on the place for a few hrs each day and I asked him to tell me if she cried while I was away and he never said anything.
> When I pick up groceries tonight I will put on the voice recorder and see what I am really dealing with.



I would use a phone or tablet if you can. That way you can also see what she does. You might be surprised to see that after a few minutes, she just settles down and goes to sleep. This would put you at ease even more.

I just leave my ipad on when I leave, and record for hours, just skipping fast to see what she does.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

It sounds like you're doing great with her. Just be cafeful and don't rush it too much. Little baby steps...gradual desensatizing works best so take your time. I think Dechi's idea is great to record what she's up to after you leave. Maybe it won't prove to be as bad as it seemed. Keep us posted. You definitely have the right idea to as you put it, get ahead of the howling/crying.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

We did it!!! 

Annie is amazing... The moment I start thinking she will never get something, she gets it. 

I tiptoed down the stairs last night, shoes in hand, and didnt lock the door. Left her with a big bowl of kibble, cut up beef, and frozen veggies. I don't think she heard me leave over the radio and the rain. My tablet stopped recording after the first minute, but I didn't hear her crying when i left and she wasn't crying when I came back 1.25 hrs later and the bowl was empty. Good puppy! She was happy to see me but not desperate. 

I am going to keep practicing this today (maybe go out for an HR again and actually figure out how to record) but am super happy.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

For Want of Poodle said:


> We did it!!!
> 
> Annie is amazing... The moment I start thinking she will never get something, she gets it.
> 
> ...


Great ! Keep recording her, it helps. Also, don’t make a big deal when you come back, same when you leave.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Yay! It sounds like she's getting onto it...that you'll be back. Keep up the good work and be back before she is apt to get too worried, then you'll be able to be away a little longer as time goes on. Sounds like she has an understanding of you and is feeling pretty secure. That is great.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Well.... 4 days in to back to work. 
First two days were fine (I couldn't figure out how to record, but spoke to my neighbour). Kibble eaten, Kong stuffing out, etc. Yesterday... I heard whining as I left. Food not eaten and diahrea (stress?) when I got home. The same today, but today I recorded. Video cut out at 47 Min of intermittent crying. The downstairs neighbour says she heard sad crying the whole 4 hrs I was gone today and yesterday, but nothing the first two days(only working part time right now). Very sweet, she told me not to worry, nothing I can do. Nice of her, but I need to fix this....!

I guess more human disappearing practice is needed? I emailed a local trainer who claims to have a degree in animal behaviour but haven't gotten a response yet. 

I am going to drop off homemade jam with the neighbour to keep on her good side...


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Also, I must not have latched the crate today... She met me at the top of the stairs. I am wondering if she would be happier if I let her loose in the hall... But omg the cleanup to keep a bored puppy out of things!


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Aww she will eventually get it. My guy no longer likes his crate very much but now he only goes in at night. He settles down quickly though, especially if I turn off the lights, he knows its bedtime.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Well @#&*. Definitely getting worse not better. Started crying moment I picked up my purse this morning. Got home and she had moved her crate again, kicked the bottom tray half out, got a hold of a novel through the bars and ripped it, tore the elastic out of her topknot etc... I think she was trying to dig out while I was gone. Haven't heard from the person I contacted, so going to try calling a few others. I don't have a choices out leaving her as of Monday again. I really really wish I knew anyone locally who could puppysit while I work on desensitizing her!!


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Do you have a camp bow wow or doggie daycare near by. I notice more and more of them opening around me. Maybe a local vet will know of someone.Or maybe a sari kennel type crate would make her feel more secure?


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

I called and left a message with a local doggy daycare this afternoon. $20/day but worth it for a few weeks while I work on this more... most of them only take small dogs or only take spayed/neutered dogs and she isn't spayed yet. I might call and plead my case if this one doesn't come through. I also contacted two more local trainers and haven't heard back yet. 

Thanks Mufar, the vari kennel is a good idea in case I have "poisoned" this one (she is flinching now if I even touch the bars accidentally and make noise). She cried even after I let her out today. I am also worried she is going to injure herself on the bars of this one... 

My mom pointed out she was never really alone at mom's house. Mom's dog and cat were there. Also, she is likely hearing the downstairs neighbor, and may think I am downstairs and she just needs to get to me. I am wondering if I "borrow" my dad's cat when I go home for Thanksgiving next weekend if it would help or make things worse.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

For Want of Poodle said:


> I called and left a message with a local doggy daycare this afternoon. $20/day but worth it for a few weeks while I work on this more... most of them only take small dogs or only take spayed/neutered dogs and she isn't spayed yet. I might call and plead my case if this one doesn't come through. I also contacted two more local trainers and haven't heard back yet.
> 
> Thanks Mufar, the vari kennel is a good idea in case I have "poisoned" this one (she is flinching now if I even touch the bars accidentally and make noise). She cried even after I let her out today. I am also worried she is going to injure herself on the bars of this one...
> 
> My mom pointed out she was never really alone at mom's house. Mom's dog and cat were there. Also, she is likely hearing the downstairs neighbor, and may think I am downstairs and she just needs to get to me. I am wondering if I "borrow" my dad's cat when I go home for Thanksgiving next weekend if it would help or make things worse.


I think it might be a very good idea, but only if you plan get her a cat if it helps. If not, she’ll be even more frustrated when the cat is gone, if it helps.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Good grief.... First trainer responded. 


> I’m sorry to hear that you’re facing the challenge of having an anxious dog in the home. ‘Separation anxiety’ is a very broadly-used term. More often than not, the unwanted behaviours stem from something not necessarily related to separation anxiety


Can have a phone consult to discuss issue and management and training plan. First available consult time is next Thursday, I contacted her Wednesday. I will think about it ... and hope someone else responds tomorrow. 

Perhaps I am, in my stress, oversensitive but surely there are better ways to greet a prospective client than telling them that they don't have the problem they think they have! 

I am innately pretty skeptical about dog trainers in general, and think no dog trainer is way better than a bad one. Canada doesn't seem to have behaviourists? My sister is an allegedly well respected dog trainer. Her version of teaching offleash distance recall included strangling my puppy with a choke chain as she screamed and thrashed... until I ran over and yelled at her to stop. I know better than to let her touch my dog but had thought... How can you screw up come ? when she asked to help, and I really did want help with distance recall practice. The most highly recommeulknded dog trainer in the town uses e collars extensively and recommends pinch collars for puppy classes... I don't suspect he will be helpful for a fear based issue.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Good grief.... First trainer responded.
> 
> Can have a phone consult to discuss issue and management and training plan. First available consult time is next Thursday, I contacted her Wednesday. I will think about it ... and hope someone else responds tomorrow.
> 
> ...



Holy sh!!!!!!! How can someone think abusing a dog is training? OMG! You are smart to steer clear of all that, including the use of an e-collar. Very sad and damaging to freak out an already scared dog...or any dog.

So, have you read Culture Clash? The part about conditioning alone time? You must go gradually. But I know...now you're back to work. What a dilemma. Maybe you'll have to try some kind of doggie day care or someone to come in to your home a few times a day. (?) I just don't know what you can do. Maybe see if your vet has any medication that would help without over doing it? It's too bad you can't find a certified veterinary behaviorist. There are definitely good trainers and bad trainers, as you've discovered with your sister. It's just not logical to distrust all trainers. You need to watch them interact with other dogs they work with, ask for references, tread carefully. Step in when you don't like what you're seeing if it's mistreatment. Read up on some methods. Patricia McConnell, Jean Donaldson, Ian Dunbar, Karen Pryor, Pat Miller, Sophia Yin are just a few very well thought of behaviorists/authors. There are more but those are a few. Look online at videos from Kiko pup. She's excellent. Really, really good. Look for "alone training" or "separation anxiety."

https://www.google.com/search?q=sep...ome..69i57.16164j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Good grief.... First trainer responded.
> 
> Can have a phone consult to discuss issue and management and training plan. First available consult time is next Thursday, I contacted her Wednesday. I will think about it ... and hope someone else responds tomorrow.
> 
> ...


Yes, there are a few certified vet behaviorists in Canada. We have 2 or 3 in Quebec. Call the board of veterinarians, or whatever they call it, and ask.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Ok... Not so fried today, and some stuff falling into place.

Culture clash is arriving at my mom's house next week, for me to pick up on the weekend. (Delivery to my apartment is a pain and the pickup point has awful hours). I have been spending a lot of time on the websites of the people you mention poodle beguiled since I got her. They have been very helpful getting Annie where she is (other training wise) without trauma for either of us and changing how I think about dogs. I guess what scares me about trainers is me just blindly going along with what they say. 

I have signed her up for doggy daycare every day next week to give me more time. Now to find her vaccination records....


I figured out how to order groceries online,so I don't have to leave her for an hour before she is ready.

I have gotten her back to willingly going in crate, and half an hour of crate with me in another room doing noisy things. Or me going out to the car without her. She actually barked to get in to her crate when I closed the door on an awesome treat. 

I was contacted this morning by a positive methods only trainer who cites Jean Donaldson, Karen Pryor, Patricia McConnel, etc as recommended reading and does performance titles and herding, we are arranging to meet. She is a bit far, but I like how she phrases things on her website and how she discusses behavioural modification, and she is more experienced than the first person who contacted me back. 

I am trying to think of a new "job" for my dog. I realized I have taught her that her one and only job is keeping an eye on me (lots of hide and seek off leash, keeping her with me almost all the time, and bringing her anywhere possible because I was going through physical health stuff that made my mental health shakey). Can I blame her for being upset she can't do her job?


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

You have a terrific attitude. It sounds like you're pulling yourself up by the boot straps, getting things in line for preparation for working through this very difficult thing. I'm happy you found what sounds like a good trainer. The extra distance will be worth it if she truly is helpful. 

Remember your little gal is young and maturing goes a long way toward learning the ways of the world and getting onto to dealing with certain life experiences. Even my poodles who won't move when I'm getting close with the lawn mower and now need to be left in the house because of it were afraid of certain noises and things when they were puppies. Maurice wasn't afraid of a Harley Davidson idling in a driveway when he was just brand new though. He's a weirdo though. He just wanted to visit the guy...didn't shy from that noise. But other things he does and did. In the house, while vacuuming, they won't move. I either have to go around them or bump them with it to get them to move. They weren't that brave (and dumb) when they were babies. lol. Give it time and see that trainer...make sure you like how she handles a class before you sign up.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

You’re doing the best you can and it sounds like you are making progress Yay, you! Poodles are so sensitive and notice every little change. They do sense anxiety, so be as matter of fact and as low key as possible for departures and returns. I leave with “Watch the house” and “I always come back”, when I return. Bring the seniors downstairs a little gift, with a note acknowledging their forbearance for your puppy in training. (‘Cause poodles take a long time to mature...) Positive reinforcement only trainers, especially for poodles. They are so smart, they have to be finessed and it has to be fair. Best wishes on your training journey and making the seniors downstairs, poodle admirers.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

This is starting to develop into a bit of an ongoing training process thread. Hopefully in a few months I'll look back and remark at how far we've come 

Well, one step forward and two steps back still. On good days, i think it's 2 steps forward and one step back  10 months is a HARD age! Keep reminding myself if we both make it to 2 years, I'll have a nice, calm, sane dog again....

Our first trainer appointment is this weekend. We will have LOTS to discuss.

Annie loves doggie day care and apparently is playing well. I am not so much a fan. I think it's worsening some other issues, and the control freak in me really doesn't like her having time with people/other dogs without my supervision to jump on issues that may arise. 

One or two steps forward... 

Last Thursday she stayed home, out of her crate, and I told her "Be good! I'll be right back", and she seemed to get it (I came back at lunch and did the same) (Thanks Mfmst for that suggestion). No issues/crying, no torn stuff even though I didn't puppy proof much. We spent the weekend at Mom's scarfing down turkey and pie. Tuesday, tried her at home again. No issues, i came home at lunch and she didn't even bother to follow me down the stairs. Good puppy. Daycare again yesterday, home today. She cried when I left... but at least still no torn stuff, and a warm spot when I got home where she had been lying in the hall. Daycare again tomorrow. Daycare is a 20 min drive, so I really hate taking her there - I'd rather spend the 80 min/day with my dog/training my dog/walking my dog than driving my dog! 

Books arrived,and I am reading them (Culture Clash, and also picked up a pamphlet from Patricia Macconnell on separation anxiety). 

My mom is driving down my old springer (dog bike attachment) next weekend, so i can start training her to like bikes (plan max 5 min slow rides until she's older, but want to accustom her to the idea). 

But... here's the two steps back... 

My dog has, (possibly while at daycare?), discovered squirrels. She goes absolutely NUTS (whine, cry, pull, yelp, scream) on leash if she sees a squirrel, and remains NUTS for the rest of the walk. Formerly she had no interest in squirrels beyond mild curiousity. I often see 3 squirrels just in our front yard, so... walks are no longer much fun. I can no longer use a flexi except in the evening (she is/was flexi trained to remain off the road, come back to me if she hit the end of the leash/not pull, etc, and I loved it because she got more exercise and sniffing without me interrupting my walk), and I discovered last night prey drive also applies to skunks. This also means I don't trust her recall off leash any more (I need to buy/make a long line). She won't behave on leash for love or money (praise or chicken or tennis balls) after she sees something.

I have tried using a gentle leader - she tosses her head and body like mad and cries/screams at squirrels, and is otherwise completely shut down/unhappy on walks with it on. I'd rather have a happy out of control pulling dog than a well behaved tail down miserable one who won't even pee/poop. She seems to find even the slight pressure from the leash hanging to be a (constant) aversive. Hoping to get back to that middle ground of happy well behaved non-pulling dog soon (or we may start doing ALL our walking after dark, when she is still a pleasure to walk with)! 

I think she's started to use crying/yodelling as an attention grabber, because she did this on the train this weekend too, every time the door opened at a stop for an hour of our 3 hr trip (each way), which is new. "I am BORED! Let me OUT!" No, settle and lie down. 

Went and grabbed "just in case" skunk stuff today at the local pet store. My (formerly) perfectly-behaved-in-stores puppy decided to whine/cry/yelp at the top of her lungs because she heard the birds in the store. For the entire trip. Never any problems there previously. Did the same thing when we passed another dog on our walk today... (I thought we'd worked through that issue months ago). Why do people insist on stopping and chatting when I am obviously trying to distract my (yodelling/yipping while at a sit) dog from their presence and regain her focus?

I guess 10 months is the "where are the boundaries?" stage of puppy development? More work will follow...


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Your dog is just like Beckie... Beckie is now almost 2 1/2 years old and she still does this loud scream/yoddle when we see dogs on our walks. She goes after squirrels too, but since they flee real fast, she doesn’t have time to scream.

I bought her a harness that attaches in the front, it helped with the pulling about 60%. Beckie is only 8 pounds, but it feels like she is tearing my arm when she is on a leash.

I do let her off leash sometimes, but only in very large, mostly enclosed environments, like a soccer field. Dogs with such temperaments take longer to mature. Everything has taken longer with Beckie : housebreaking, manners, etc.

Don’t be discouraged, it will get better. For health reasons, I can’t walk her a lot and if I had walked her more, like you do, I’m sure she would be a lot better.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Well, read the separation anxiety book. Not much new (i really wish I could explain why she's fine the first few days, then picks up separation anxiety on the third or so time she's left alone- I wonder if something "scary" happens). I did like the idea of associating "Human is leaving" cues not only with "meh, nothing happens" but also with good things (yummy kong), and associating me coming back with yummy kong goes away. I'd tried that on a larger scale, not on the scale of "Human puts on the coat". Also liked the idea of working on a calm down stay -I realized that although her stay is good, she's very alert.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Ah, the joys of adolescence and the rewiring brain!

I wonder if an even more exciting game of chase with a soft toy on a mini flirt pole would work as a counter attraction to squirrels? If you see them in the yard it would be fairly easy to set up, and once you reliably get her attention transferred to the toy, and to the expectation that squirrels make the toy appear, you could gradually fade it to a quick game of tug. I found when teaching mine to attend to me rather than chase that it was really important to interrupt at the first flicker of prey, before their attention was riveted. Catch it at the beginning of the Search phase, before their brain commits to Stalk and is frustrated by the leash, and there is still some hope of finding at least a few brain cells still capable of hearing you! 

if the other dogs you meet are friendly I would use meeting and greeting them as the reward. Find a few dog owners who will work with you, and start work at a distance. Polite behaviour means getting to meet, impolite means moving further away - it takes a while to get the message across, and I would not be too rigorous about what constitutes polite at first, but poodles are intelligent and once she has got the principle you can gradually be more demanding. Greeting means just that - a brief and courteous sniff and tail wag, not a riotous game of chase and wrestling. Walking on together is a good way of keeping things relaxed, though, and a sensible dog that can model behaviour for a youngster is very helpful, if you can find one.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Dechi - I believe you about the strength of an 8 lb puller. I once took my mom's 11 lb yorkie and my dad's 185 lb St. Bernard for a walk... Children approached. The Saint pulled towards them in rapturous joy, the Yorkie leaned into her harness and pulled away from them in terror. I remember noting that it felt like almost the same amount of force on both my arms. Small dogs are strong! I get you about health reasons... I had a period of a few months when she was not walked much at all, for health reasons... (thank you, dog park, for helping me exercise my dog). Health problems are awful. 

fjm - a flirt pole is an excellent idea. I really need to make one... We do have the "you only get to meet (dogs, people, kids, cats...) it if you're polite" rule in place, which has helped a lot. There are very few dogs that are walked in our neighbourhood, we maybe meet one every few days walking 3x a day for 15-40 min? it's a rough area. We usually pass 3+ dogs lunging at windows and fences though. Most often Annie gets a nice polite sniff with a senior arthritic mixed breed who will tell her off with body language if Annie gets too enthusiastic in her advances


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## Vita (Sep 23, 2017)

In motherhood, you never know what you'll get with either your dogs or your kids! They have their own feelings and way of looking and responding to limitations, and then the fun begins! 

I had to laugh visualizing your daycare concerns, the squirrel mania, the yodeling in the pet store and on the train. Not laughing at you or your problem, but how this triggered memories of my experiences. The traffic to and from the babysitter. The more adventurous child doing the unexpected for attention or to relieve boredom, and he could yodel too! I miss those days, kids and dogs are so darn funny; one day hopefully you'll look back on Lilly's antics and laugh. Hang in there!


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Thanks Vita -yes, I think i'll laugh about it.... in a few years  

Went hiking yesterday, and to see the trainer today. 

Annie decided to redeem herself by being on her best behaviour on the hike, with credible sits off to the side to let people pass and no jumping the 3 year old child my friend brought with her (friend and child are afraid of dogs, so good socialization for all involved, by the end of the walk, the child had actually touched the dog). She informs me her best behaviour is BORING, so she did mumble some at me. It helped that in a 2 hr walk we saw 0 squirrels. My favourite part was, in a crowd of people, my dog sitting and leaning into my friend and my friend tentatively attempting a pet 

I'm not sure how helpful the trainer was in terms of separation anxiety, but she did seem to be good at recognizing and explaining canine body language, which was worth the trip. She pointed out the dog doesn't present as an anxious or neurotic dog, so should be easier to work with. Hope she's right! She suggested working on down stays/sit stays/mat stays with distance and longer durations, and stays where I leave the house, and worked on my treat/reward delivery and timing as well as teaching "relaxed" dog. She also suggested working on teaching behaviours at a distance. She agreed my dog needs a job, and suggested "down stay" as a valid job while I'm doing things at home. She suggested switching to a varikennel from the wire as my dog has realized she can get out of this crate if she tries hard enough. I will return next week to attend a drop-in herding beginner's class, as she suggested finding an outlet for the prey drive.

Now off to construct a long line, so we can maybe go for a walk in the hydro field or trainyard this evening.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Hah, well, I must not have ruined that crate for her too badly... I was (unsuccessfully) trying to measure her for a varikennel with a tape measure which she hated. Ran off to her crate, and is now lying in it, door open. "You can't get me here!" I am choosing to be amused and consider this progress since she hasn't willingly lain their in a long time.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Well - the separation anxiety is, I think, almost completely gone. She has adjusted to my schedule. She's stopped trying to block me when I get ready in the morning and has gone past her panting as she anticipates that I am going to leave/for a while after I get home stage. She's also not drooling while I am gone anymore, either. Yay! I think me being gone is also now less mental energy/stressful - she's getting much more busy in the evenings rather than just wanting to snuggle and sleep. 

The biggest success seems to have been remembering to say goodbye every morning. I say "Goodbye - be good! You stay here!" in a cheerful voice (with maybe a kiss to the top of her head if I have to go past her on the stairs). The one time I forgot, she was much more frantic when I got home. Funnily, she also seems to understand if I tell her "You're coming too". She lets me get on with my business without trying to stop me, but is definitely certain she is expecting a leash on! I've also stopped coming home in the middle of the day (I am only gone for 4-5 hrs )- she seems to do better dealing with one absence then "OMG she left me AGAIN!"

Squirrels are a ... work in progress. The flirt pole, other toys, and treats still remain valueless when there is a SQUIRREL in sight. We are trying the "if you sit and look at me, we can chase squirrels, sometimes, occasionally, together" method. Progress is slow, as it's really hard to reinforce even occasionally since she reacts to squirrels way down the street, and we only chase squirrels that are nearby and on our side of the street, and they are usually gone by the time she behaves to get them. Still - a sit with lots of vocalizations is much better than trying to pull me down the street while screaming her head off, though I know we must look absolutely nuts to anyone watching us. She's also learning if we don't CHARGE the squirrels then she can get closer to them as we try to creep up, on a loose leash. It's a ridiculous training method, but at least it is (kind of) working. 

This weekend's training plans are :

1) Practice recalls on a long line with me dropping her leash- if I drop the leash/she slips her harness or collar, she's hard to get back on walks.
2) Continue to work on getting her to willingly enter her new varikennel, aka the (absurdly expensive, 48") Black Hole of Fright (which killed my dog budget for the rest of the year because she's too tall for the much cheaper 42", one size down)
3) Continue to practice down stays in various forms (relaxed down stay, hide and seek down stay, relax on a mat, etc)

I started this thread right before we moved back into an apartment - all in all, after a few large road bumps, 1 month in, I think she has adapted really nicely. 

Thanks everyone for all of the help and advice over the last month, I really appreciated the extra brains working on this.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Sounds as if you are making excellent progress, and have successfully helped her through her anxieties about being left. I use "Stay and be good" when I am leaving the dogs alone, and they completely understand that it means they can't come with me. 

And I love the idea of teaching her to stalk squirrels rather than dash at them! Sophy learnt to stalk very quickly all by herself, and gets annoyed by Poppy's over enthusiastic chasing, that results in the target rabbit diving safely back into its hole while they are 30 yards away. It is a behaviour that will make sense to Annie, where ignoring the squirrel and walking away would not.


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