# Standard Poodle Frustration’s



## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

The lunging and biting people sounds like a serious problem. That's the sort of thing that could get your dog deemed vicious and taken away for euthanization. I would get a consultation with an animal behaviorist. Your dog has already injured someone. You don't want to mess around and risk further incidents. It could mean a death sentence for your dog. Some resources that might help you find one are:
Certified Dog Trainer and Behavior Consultant Directory - CCPDT 








International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants


The International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants' mission is to elevate the standard of animal behavior consulting worldwide by promoting continuing education, peer support and development, ethical practices through the use of Least Intrusive, Minimally Aversive (LIMA) principles...




m.iaabc.org





As far as needing to go out at night, I'd suggest two things. One is to adjust dinner time. You could move it earlier, so your dog is ready for the final poop when you go out right before bed. Ironically, it might also help to feed the dog _later,_ right before bed, so the dog is ready to go out first thing in the morning. The second thing is to set an alarm and wake the dog up to go out in the middle of the night. Each night set the alarm a few minutes later. This way you can gradually move the dog's wake up time from, say, 3AM to a more normal 6AM.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Agree with cowpony on the aggression/over excitement. This is the sort of thing to bring in a professional for. 

As for going indoors... It might be a good idea to go back to basics. Has he been taught to ask to go out, and do you throw a party (treats, excited praise) when he goes outside?

Going out 3x a day wouldn't be enough for my dog. Mostly she goes out now when she asks to, so I don't have the timing memorized, but when I was living in an apartment and it was more formal our schedule for going out was :


First thing in the morning (just front yard)
After breakfast, immediately before I left (quick walk)
Lunch time (walk)
when I get home (quick walk)
After dinner (just yard)
Evening (longer walk)
Before bed (just yard).

A quick walk might only be 5 min or less! But it helps to jostle things out. It also helped to have a pair of slip on shoes and a huge easy to pull on coat by the door for quick trips. 

Not all of these ended up being 'productive' trips, but most were.


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## bbahrenburg (Dec 21, 2021)

cowpony said:


> The lunging and biting people sounds like a serious problem. That's the sort of thing that could get your dog deemed vicious and taken away for euthanization. I would get a consultation with an animal behaviorist. Your dog has already injured someone. You don't want to mess around and risk further incidents. It could mean a death sentence for your dog. Some resources that might help you find one are:
> Certified Dog Trainer and Behavior Consultant Directory - CCPDT
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed. His clock has to be reset. I like that idea. His normal patterns have changed do to the conditions.


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## bbahrenburg (Dec 21, 2021)

Agreed. His clock needs to be reset do to the conditions. His acts are playful in nature towards humans. More aggressive towards dogs. I suspect a fear condition l I’m working with him to ha him sit which calms him down. I use the taser collar for a mind reset to stop that thinking he has. It’s not ment to harm but as a mind reset .


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

bbahrenburg said:


> Agreed. His clock needs to be reset do to the conditions. His acts are playful in nature towards humans. More aggressive towards dogs. I suspect a fear condition l I’m working with him to ha him sit which calms him down. I use the taser collar for a mind reset to stop that thinking he has. It’s not ment to harm but as a mind reset .


I would advise that you promptly stop the use of that collar. You can very easily make the problem worse with harsh aversives. You need to hire a behaviourist who is knowledgeable about positive reinforcement as scientifically this is your best bet, and not to mention the most humane. Dominance is not the route you want to go. Please don't delay getting that professional help. The forum, while full of very intelligent folks, cannot see your dog's behaviour or your interactions and this sounds like a very serious issue indeed, which will go very sideways quickly if not handled in a delicate manner.

EDITED TO ADD: I do understand that some folks do use shock collars... but in the hands of someone not trained carefully in both animal behaviour and their use? Not in either animal or owner's best interests.


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## bbahrenburg (Dec 21, 2021)

BennieJets said:


> I would advise that you promptly stop the use of that collar. You can very easily make the problem worse with harsh aversives. You need to hire a behaviourist who is knowledgeable about positive reinforcement as scientifically this is your best bet, and not to mention the most humane. Dominance is not the route you want to go. Please don't delay getting that professional help. The forum, while full of very intelligent folks, cannot see your dog's behaviour or your interactions and this sounds like a very serious issue indeed, which will go very sideways quickly if not handled in a delicate manner.
> 
> EDITED TO ADD: I do understand that some folks do use shock collars... but in the hands of someone not trained carefully in both animal behaviour and their use? Not in either animal or owner's best interests.


I appreciate your concern and understandin. The purpose of the collar is to stop his thinking not for discipline. He is fairly well behaved by having it on without using it. Sitting also snaps him out of it. Using a sitting discipline seems to work best. It stops him and changes his way of thinking. It puts me in control being the alpha and giving him the command to proceed.


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## bbahrenburg (Dec 21, 2021)

bbahrenburg said:


> I appreciate your concern and understandin. The purpose of the collar is to stop his thinking not for discipline. He is fairly well behaved by having it on without using it. Sitting also snaps him out of it. Using a sitting discipline seems to work best. It stops him and changes his way of thinking. It puts me in control being the alpha and giving him the command to proceed.


Additionally, I have a train lease without a chokper. It appears to me , I’ll have to short leash him if need be until the coast is clear.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

The alpha dominance theory was debunked in the 70s, wolf packs are families lead by their parents.
I almost ruined my first poodle using harsh training methods,


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

bbahrenburg said:


> Additionally, he has anger issues when confronted with other dogs. He lunge at them. He nips people walking by me.


More detail will be helpful. You've described the picture and now the frame for that picture is needed. Is this all happening still at the dog park or is it happening anywhere?
Is this a continuation of the issue you posted in April or did Bo settle for a while and then start again recently?
(8) Puppy Growling and barking At the Dog 🐩 Park | Poodle Forum



bbahrenburg said:


> I paid a young woman $280.00 for her trip to the urgent care facility.


Was she nipped at when just walking by or did she approach him and if she approached him, how did she present herself?
Is this nipping done while on leash, on a walk, or in the dog park? If on a leash, how long of a line are you using?

What I'm trying to understand is the specific circumstances this happens in. The e-collar in these circumstances is not the right tool. You surely don't mean to have him behave because he's afraid. No matter how low the stimulation, it is an aversive method and that can cause dogs to shut down.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Oh dear. A reset is definitely in order.

Please take the advice above and reach out to a behaviourist. A single session could be all it takes to get you and your young poodle on the right track. Shock collars, well-intentioned though they might be, can turn fear or excitement into aggression. That’s a big part of our trainer’s business, helping people rehabilitate their dogs from these devices.

If your behaviourist feels the collar is warranted, they will counsel you on how to use it appropriately. This is not a tool for unskilled hands, and almost all of us are unskilled in the language and behaviour of dogs.

As you wait for your consultation, consider trying a u-turn in place of the sit, which is an unnatural behaviour and can increase anxiety. Practise the u-turn when no dogs or other exciting stimuli is around, so it becomes muscle memory. Just say a cheery “Let’s go!” and then head in the opposite direction. As soon as your poodle follows, reward with a yummy, high-value treat, that’s easy to chew and swallow while moving (like chicken breast or cheese) and keep your cheery forward momentum. This will become a fabulous game that your poodle loves, and is the perfect way to manage triggers like dogs and strangers.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

If this is happening primarily at the dog park, and you're taking him there primarily for the chance to run for exercise because there is nowhere else, then choosing a time that the park is unpopulated is going to be better for you and Bo.

If you're taking him to the park for social interaction with other dogs, that's more of a human expectation rather than the dogs.

Dogs that live in the wild are living in a pack, but that pack is more accurately described as their biological family, made up of mother, father and siblings. This is part of why they fit into human family structure and have for thousands of years.

Dogs outside their family are strangers and as strangers can as easily be a threat as a playmate. It's not necessarily natural for a dog to accept random dogs, nor should they be required to if they're not comfortable doing that.

If this is happening while walking on leash, then distance between Bo and other dogs and even people is what's needed for him to feel safe. 

Until you find a behaviorist that works with positive methods, do yourself and Bo the favor of not placing him in what he might be perceiving as harm's way.

Until then. look thru this thread and start working on the Look At That training described here

(8) Winnie got spooked by another dog in the woods today then she growled and snarled at another dog herself | Poodle Forum


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## bbahrenburg (Dec 21, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> If this is happening primarily at the dog park, and you're taking him there primarily for the chance to run for exercise because there is nowhere else, then choosing a time that the park is unpopulated is going to be better for you and Bo.
> 
> If you're taking him to the park for social interaction with other dogs, that's more of a human expectation rather than the dogs.
> 
> ...


You’re spot on and moving into positive re-enforcement and I’m seeing some resul immediately. Sit, heal, come...play. I’ve also reset his time clock and


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## bbahrenburg (Dec 21, 2021)

We’re doing a lot more social interactions.


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## bbahrenburg (Dec 21, 2021)

bbahrenburg said:


> We’re doing a lot more social interactions.


I’ll keep you posted.
Thank you!


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## bbahrenburg (Dec 21, 2021)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Agree with cowpony on the aggression/over excitement. This is the sort of thing to bring in a professional for.
> 
> As for going indoors... It might be a good idea to go back to basics. Has he been taught to ask to go out, and do you throw a party (treats, excited praise) when he goes outside?
> 
> ...


Mission accomplished. I’ve reintroduced the old scheduled times. I had to readjust my schedule too. I got away from my old schedule tool I’ve also gone back to feeding him in the morning. As it turns out, I am to blame not Bo.
Thanks again,
Brook


Rose n Poos said:


> If this is happening primarily at the dog park, and you're taking him there primarily for the chance to run for exercise because there is nowhere else, then choosing a time that the park is unpopulated is going to be better for you and Bo.
> 
> If you're taking him to the park for social interaction with other dogs, that's more of a human expectation rather than the dogs.
> 
> ...


Mission accomplished. I have Bo sit next to me when a dog or a person are approaching us. Even a more aggressive dog which there are plenty of. It clears his stinking thinking and has him refocus to lose his nipping or more aggressive nature. I reward him to let him know he,s a good boy. At that point,we proceed.
Thanks again,
Brook


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Training is often misunderstood to mean only obedience. 
It's also a way to acquire skills, in this case, alternate behaviors to cope with a threshold situation. 
Keep Bo safe by reducing or eliminating these until his new skills are reliable. 
Do your best to not allow other dogs or people to approach or engage until he shows that he can handle it and actually wants to. 
Not all dogs want or need this so keep your focus on Bo's needs


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## bbahrenburg (Dec 21, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> Training is often misunderstood to mean only obedience.
> It's also a way to acquire skills, in this case, alternate behaviors to cope with a threshold situation.
> Keep Bo safe by reducing or eliminating these until his new skills are reliable.
> Do your best to not allow other dogs or people to approach or engage until he shows that he can handle it and actually wants to.
> Not all dogs want or need this so keep your focus on Bo's needs


Looks like he’ll be fine. There were a number of reasons for his responses. I took them apart piece by piece to analyze his emotional responses and thanks to you and others on this awesome site, we crossed over another hurdle in understanding why my Bo is who is is and why he acts the way he does.
Thanks again,


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