# Found a new food - low fat



## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

I would be concerned about the amount of lentils and peas based on this: https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterina...rtain-diets-and-canine-dilated-cardiomyopathy. The research is still ongoing and there is a lot of controversy, but I finally dropped what I was feeding my dogs (Taste of the Wild, which is full of lentils and peas) based on the new release of information.

What is the highest percentage of fat you are allowed to feed?


This is the current brand I am using, but the fat might be too high: https://www.chewy.com/natures-logic-canine-lamb-meal-feast/dp/39411 Many different kinds of protein to choose from, and some lower in calories. Miracle actually lost weight when I started feeding her this food over Taste of the Wild. Jasper is on the canned version, and I will add less than a tablespoon of his flavor to Miracle's meal to keep her interested.

There is also this one: https://www.chewy.com/victor-senior-healthy-weight-dry-dog/dp/120696. Lower in fat, but for seniors.

I used this calculator https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-feeding-tips/dog-food-calculator/ to determine how many calories each dog should be getting per day. If they get treats, I allow them to have a few very tiny training treats for following some sort of command.


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## jojogal001 (Feb 19, 2019)

Ok. So i saint know about DCM. So after researching that, the food I mentioned is no longer an option. 

I would like suggestions on a good, low fat diet that is non-grain-free with no legumes. The crude fat needs to be 9% max. 

It also has to be small kibble as my dogs are smaller. I’ve done so much research today my brain is fried [emoji23]. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. 


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## jojogal001 (Feb 19, 2019)

Dogs4Life... thanks for the recommendations! I’ll check them all out when I can think a little clearer. (I didn’t get any sleep last night). It’ll be good to find a food with fish protein (hopefully it will get rid of the little bit of itchiness) that will be a healthier way for them to eat. I feel an urgent need to switch NOW. Lol. 


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

Nature's Logic....fish protein and 8% minimum crude fat (doesn't say max). No soy, grain, corn (or peas, lentils). This is the only protein from this brand that is that low in fat. The kibble is super small.

https://www.chewy.com/natures-logic-canine-sardine-meal/dp/105606


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Why grain free? Gluten and grain free tends to be a silly trend in people and pet food (unless you have celiacs or a gluten insensitivity where you absolutely must avoid it). Dogs rarely have problems with grain. For example rice is a grain and most vets recommended rice and boiled chicken breast for dogs with digestive issues. 

Being grain free might limit your choices.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I feed Pro Plan Salmon sensitive, which has limited ingredients. I chose it because of this DCM problem. I don’t know if the fat content is good enough for you but check it out. I know other members feed it to.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

I have no problems with feeding a dog grains. The treats that I give my dogs have grain in them and they sometimes get some rice or pasta. I agree with Skylar that it can limit your options for dog food.

So I was on Chewy, and I searched for "small breed weight management," and there are not many food that specifically say small breed and are at 8-9% fat. 
https://www.chewy.com/nutro-ultra-small-breed-weight/dp/114361 (has 10%).

https://www.chewy.com/purina-pro-plan-savor-adult-shredded/dp/52459; https://www.chewy.com/purina-pro-plan-focus-adult-weight/dp/52405 (both 8%- doesn't mention kibble size).

Others mention peas one time in the ingredient list, but not in addition to lentils, pea starch, etc.


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## jojogal001 (Feb 19, 2019)

I just feel like grains are more of a filler than a nutrient, and that the food is better served if fruits and vegetables are in there too. The one I mentioned in the first post is also a limited ingredient food, and all the ingredients, except maybe lentil, are very good foods.

I haven’t had great luck with Purina Pro Plan. Most of the dogs I tried it with are not fun nd of the taste and would reluctantly eat, and skip meals too. Also their coats were not super neatly. 

All I can say, is from the research I’ve done, the food in the first post is a good one. And that can be supplemented with treats, which do indeed have grains. And I wouldn’t mind mixing in some brown rice sometimes (better for them than white so I understand).


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

Canned food is more expensive, but you also might consider switching to this for Zeke. The additional liquid might help with digestion and many of the canned foods have a lower fat percentage.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

It is not inexpensive, but we had great success feeding Honest Kitchen Zeal (fish) to our Airedale with pancreatitis. You can look on their site for exact percentages of fat.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

jojogal001 said:


> I just feel like grains are more of a filler than a nutrient, and that the food is better served if fruits and vegetables are in there too. The one I mentioned in the first post is also a limited ingredient food, and all the ingredients, except maybe lentil, are very good foods.


jojogal001, I don't mean to single you out - but rather to reach those reading this post.


Our dogs can easily digest starches. Unlike wolves, and more like humans dogs have more copies of amylase and longer/more effective maltase enzymes so they can digest starches. Starches are not filler - they are important sources of vitamins and minerals and other nutrients not found in the muscles of animals. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/01/diet-shaped-dog-domestication



I do agree that there has to be an appropriate balance of sources of nutrients in our pet's food. I have no problems feeding my dog potatoes, oatmeal and other starches - including grains like wheat and rice. I do have a problem when it's not properly balanced so dog's don't get adequate nutrients to support health.


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

My Dog Max, a poodle shihtzu mix, has had two bouts with pancreatitis. The last one was about 4 years ago. He has remained on a low fat diet since that second attack, and has had no further issues. He is overall a healthy guy except for that. 

I feed a lot of different things: home cooked, raw, kibble, and freeze dried. I just watch the fat for Max. All the dogs, including the puppy, adjust easily to rotating different types of foods, and I think it’s good for them. 

I always keep kibble in the rotation so they are used to it when we travel. However, it’s only about 20% of their diet. Nothing wrong with feeding all kibble, this is just how I do it. But I’m a crazy person in that I actually like to cook, so cooking for the dogs is a natural extension of that! Probably crazy in other ways too, lol. 

That said, I keep the kibble fat at around 10%. Some brands that have low fat or weight management options that have worked well for Max are:

Wellness Core
Adirondack
Nutri Source
Fromm

Nutrisource and Adirondack are the more economical options. 

Good luck, hope this helps. Both of Max’s attacks were pretty severe, and he wound up at the emergency vet both times. But the management of the condition has not been bad at all, so take heart in that it can be managed with just a little thought.


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## jojogal001 (Feb 19, 2019)

Charmed said:


> It is not inexpensive, but we had great success feeding Honest Kitchen Zeal (fish) to our Airedale with pancreatitis. You can look on their site for exact percentages of fat.




I will look into that. Thanks!

And Dechi, I never considered canned food, but it doesn’t really matter for him anyway as he gulps his kibble and doesn’t really chew it. 


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## jojogal001 (Feb 19, 2019)

First, Skylar, it’s ok if you did single me out. I’m learning so much about dog foos that I never knew and it’s all super helpful... thanks!




Carolinek said:


> My Dog Max, a poodle shihtzu mix, has had two bouts with pancreatitis. The last one was about 4 years ago. He has remained on a low fat diet since that second attack, and has had no further issues. He is overall a healthy guy except for that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the names of the different foods! I can’t really cook anymore, so that is pretty much out, but I will definitely look into these different brands. 




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## jojogal001 (Feb 19, 2019)

Ok, i warn you.... dumb question:

At what age do you start feeding a senior diet? I have heard, somewhere, at 7 years old. But is that the same for smaller poodles/dogs who have a longer estimated lifespan?


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## jojogal001 (Feb 19, 2019)

I kind of stumbled across this one. It's a little expensive, but looks good to me. Am I missing something? or would this be a good one to try? Crude fat is 8%

Nature's Logic Sardine Meal Feast

Sardine sounds kind of gross to me, but that's because of the sardines my dad used to eat out of the square tin cans


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

Jojoga, that’s an interesting one, good find. I think it looks like a great food. It is pricey though.

Seven is fine for a senior diet. 

I have all three older dogs on the low fat food I feed Max, and Misty is only eight. That way I’m not buying and/ or preparing so many different things. 

My puppy of course needs a higher fat diet...I’m looking for one that has a calming and focusing effect as well for her teenage craziness!

ETA: of course your individual dog determines what’s best for a diet, if they tend to be thin you may not want to switch to senior. Not sure which dog you’re asking about.

It’s also important to keep the weight down with pancreatitis.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Skylar, I also have read how grains are important in overall health and the most dogs aren't actually allergic to them. We seem to be learning more and more lately on proper nutrition. There have been so many changes in dog foods in recent years.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Jo I have also been looking at low fat since my cairn terrier has been having digestive issues. The vet has her on science diet canned digestive formula, she loves it and does super well on it, I'd like to get a kibble to add to it. I may just stick with it from my vet and I can get it thru chewy too with a prescription. A friend had a pm/yorkie that had terrible pancreatitis everything would upset him. She finally settled on solid gold Holistique Blendz, with Oatmeal, Pearled Barley & Ocean Fish Meal (for less active senior dogs Potato Free. It is 6% fat. It is the ONLY food he could eat.


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## Yellow (Sep 24, 2018)

Dogs4Life said:


> Canned food is more expensive, but you also might consider switching to this for Zeke. The additional liquid might help with digestion and many of the canned foods have a lower fat percentage.


check out Farmina dog food and their Ancient Grains food also. I feed my toy farmina kibble in the morning and Answers Raw in the evening. Yes more expensive but worth it. if only kibble I would go with Famina Another food out there that might work is Life's Abundance. Made fresh and shipped to your home when needed. I like the idea that it is fresh and gauranteed pre/pro biotics that might be an option. I do not know fat contact but if feeding a good quality food then you can feed less.


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## jojogal001 (Feb 19, 2019)

So I ordered the Nature’s Logic Sardine Meal. Zekefur, of course, at it right up. (I did 1 part that to 2 parts their old food). Even Stella, who is very finicky about food loves it! She even ate all her kibble dry, which she has never done before. 

It smells like dog food, no bad smell, and the kibbles are tiny. I like that as I can use them as treats in the puzzle balls. I’m not sure I would recommend it for larger dogs because of this. 

So I hope it’s as good as I’m thinking it will be. Thanks to ALL who helped looking and giving advice about different foods. I truly appreciate everyone’s time and effort!


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

jojogal001 said:


> So I ordered the Nature’s Logic Sardine Meal. Zekefur, of course, at it right up. (I did 1 part that to 2 parts their old food). Even Stella, who is very finicky about food loves it! She even ate all her kibble dry, which she has never done before.
> 
> It smells like dog food, no bad smell, and the kibbles are tiny. I like that as I can use them as treats in the puzzle balls. I’m not sure I would recommend it for larger dogs because of this.
> 
> ...


Glad you found a food that is working out. I would recommend just never using the sardine flavored canned version of that food. Tried it once with Jasper and it smells really awful!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

jojogal001 said:


> So I ordered the Nature’s Logic Sardine Meal. Zekefur, of course, at it right up. (I did 1 part that to 2 parts their old food). Even Stella, who is very finicky about food loves it! She even ate all her kibble dry, which she has never done before.
> 
> It smells like dog food, no bad smell, and the kibbles are tiny. I like that as I can use them as treats in the puzzle balls. I’m not sure I would recommend it for larger dogs because of this.
> 
> ...



I was looking at the ingredients and I see these formulas seem to all have 15% crude fat. That doesn't seem like low fat to me...more moderate I think. (?) 

This is interesting about fat. So, that 15% may not be all she wrote. 

https://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2018/03/the-skinny-on-fat-part-1/

Sardines are VERY healthy (unless that adds too much fat for a dog with pancreatitis.) I give mine sardines once a week or so. I don't care if their breath stinks for a while. I don't need their faces in my face. LOL. 

I prefer no grain but sometimes feed something with it...I think it's better for teeth and for deferring arthritis. I don't think they need grain although in general I don't think some hurts them too much, though there is a strong association between grains, starches, sugars etc and metabolic diseases for dogs and humans. They have amylase but not in the saliva like we do so startch doesn't start breaking down right away. I do stay away from legumes, pulses or pea protein in other forms because I think it's replacing very important protein from meat, which is natural for dogs and what appears to be strongly associated with the DCM increase. (not evidence but a strong correlation) I brush their teeth and they get a cleaning from the vet fairly often. But seriously...they don't need grain. And archaeologists see that tooth decay, arthritis and diabetes started showing up in earnest when we went from hunter gatherers to agriculturists...when we and dogs started eating more grain. 

https://www.befoundalive.com/articles/article/8433042/163322.htm


> The most drastic dietary change was a skyrocketing increase in complex carbs (starch) consumption. Starch has become the foundation of our modern diet, whereas our ancestors consumed nearly none. The only wild starch available to them was from tubers and the seeds of wild grasses - both of which were seasonal, small, and fibrous, making them painstaking to gather and prepare. The same is true of sugars. The almost starch-free diet of our ancestors was the primary reason for their exemplary health; they suffered almost no obesity, no diabetes, and no immune disorders (e.g. rheumatoid arthritis, tooth decay, osteoporosis, and appendicitis).


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/06/tooth-decay-archaeology/4307319/

Anyhow, since stopping home made diets some months ago, I've been feeding/trying a few different things. They seem to do well on Victor. But I think the formula I'm feeding does have grain in it. Since they do well (even Maurice, who has had some tummy issues) I'm ignoring my gut feeling (bad pun) to steer clear of grains and pulses. lol. It's definitely in there. I just double checked. But there looks to be a lot of other good stuff. I see it has 20% crude fat so that's probably not the best if your dog has pancreatitis. 

I do like to try different things, switch around and give them a little variety and I often add some little tid bit of something extra tasty but just a wee bit. Eggs, sardines, etc etc. Good luck in what you discover.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Dogs4Life said:


> Nature's Logic....fish protein and 8% minimum crude fat (doesn't say max). No soy, grain, corn (or peas, lentils). This is the only protein from this brand that is that low in fat. The kibble is super small.
> 
> https://www.chewy.com/natures-logic-canine-sardine-meal/dp/105606


I just bought a bag of this sardine kibble yesterday. It's waiting at PFE for me to pick it up (icky tum this weekend changed plans to go out), and hopefully Oliver will like it a lot.

After reading about friends feeding sardines to their dogs and finding Wild Planet sardines in olive oil, I tried them with Oliver a few years ago. He was instantly mad for them! Even I timidly tried them, and guess what? They are not bad at all, actually kind of good.

Lovely that this Nature's Logic doesn't have the legumes. It has millet, which Bing tells me is a cereal grass. Sounds fine to me; I'm anxious to eliminate his C&P salmon kibble, which is chock full of chickpeas (shame I can't eat it myself, loving chickpeas as I do LOL).

We'll stay with the Pro Plan Focus small breed salmon, thanks to their expert staff, not changing that. But I do want to be able to offer some variety, and this looks like a great option. Fingers crossed Oliver Andrew feels the same way . Thank you!


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## jojogal001 (Feb 19, 2019)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> I was looking at the ingredients and I see these formulas seem to all have 15% crude fat. That doesn't seem like low fat to me...more moderate I think. (?)



I’m not sure, but we’re you looking at the same food I was? The other formulas may have that high of a protein but the sardine is 8%. Just wondering. Zekefur could never have anything that high in fat. 




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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

This is from the link you posted. Maybe a different formula. I looked at a few and they were the same. But I didn't look at all of them. 

Nutritional Info
Ingredients
Chicken Meal, Millet, Chicken Fat (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Pumpkin Seed, Yeast Culture, Spray Dried Chicken Liver, Dried Egg Product, Alfalfa Nutrient Concentrate, Montmorillonite Clay, Dried Kelp, Spray Dried Porcine Plasma, Dried Tomato, Almonds, Dried Chicory Root, Dried Carrot, Dried Apple, Menhaden Fish Meal, Dried Pumpkin, Dried Apricot, Dried Blueberry, Dried Spinach, Dried Broccoli, Dried Cranberry, Parsley, Dried Artichoke, Rosemary, Dried Mushroom, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Bifidium Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Coagulans Fermentation Product, Dried Pineapple Extract, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachiatum Fermentation Extract.

Caloric Content
417.95 kcal/cup

Guaranteed Analysis
CRUDE PROTEIN	36.0% min
*CRUDE FAT	15.0% min*
CRUDE FIBER	5.0% max
MOISTURE	9.0% max


Oh! Were you looking at the canned? Maybe that's why. lol.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

https://www.chewy.com/natures-logic...affiliates&utm_campaign=10l1110&utm_content=0

Sardine Meal Feast is 8% min crude fat in the dry food. It's the only one that is that low for dry food for that brand.


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

Yellow said:


> check out Farmina dog food and their Ancient Grains food also. I feed my toy farmina kibble in the morning and Answers Raw in the evening. Yes more expensive but worth it. if only kibble I would go with Famina Another food out there that might work is Life's Abundance. Made fresh and shipped to your home when needed. I like the idea that it is fresh and gauranteed pre/pro biotics that might be an option. I do not know fat contact but if feeding a good quality food then you can feed less.


One of my dog needs to eat canned food or soft food, or I would consider Farmina. After doing more research, I think it's a very good brand and I like that they label the percentage of contents in the food. The canned food is just way too pricey, and I tried making my own soft food by adding water to the dry food of another brand and letting it soak...but he wasn't going for it!


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## jojogal001 (Feb 19, 2019)

Yeah, I didn’t post a with chicken meal as the first ingredient. Maybe you were looking at someone else’s? I posted the first one, with cod fish and lentils, and then the Nature’s Logic with sardines. You had me confused for a minute lol. 


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## jojogal001 (Feb 19, 2019)

I've been feeding the Nature's Logic for a week, and they are both transitioned. Since it is a very expensive food, in the last couple of days, I started doing about half and half with this and also Purina (12% crude fat). Which leaves it at about 10% crude fat. There was no diarrhea or constipation or vomiting. Both of them love the food, and for the first time ever Stella is now eating dry food without toppers, cottage cheese, pumpkin mixed in or anything. I just can't believe it!

I'm really happy I found this food. Zeke is doing well on the mix of them, and has not shown any symptoms of recurring pancreatitis. So while Purina is not a "better food" at least they are now getting awesome nutrition with their meals.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

I am happy the new food is working out. Purina has gotten a bad rap in past years it is actually a good food and many breeders have gone back to it . Purina has a team of nutritionists, vets, scientists all working together to make formulas that not only have good ingredients but that they work together for overall health. I have been looking more into their products. So don't feel bad its a good food.


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## Yellow (Sep 24, 2018)

jojogal001 said:


> Ok. So i saint know about DCM. So after researching that, the food I mentioned is no longer an option.
> 
> I would like suggestions on a good, low fat diet that is non-grain-free with no legumes. The crude fat needs to be 9% max.
> 
> ...


Farmina weight with Lamb is 8% fat


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## jojogal001 (Feb 19, 2019)

Yellow said:


> Farmina weight with Lamb is 8% fat




Thanks! I’ll keep that in mind if tha Nature’s Logic doesn’t work out. 


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