# Modified continental in AKC ring



## spindledreams

Are you talking what is called a Historically Correct Continental(HCC)? I am asking because I thought that Modified Continental meant no hip rosettes...

One of the nicest scissored topknot HCC that I have seen belongs to a brown bitch owned by Jaci Bowman. She has a photo of her on Facebook which a few of us are using as a guide for our dogs clips. She has been very nice about critiquing my boys clip and giving suggestions about how to improve it. Be sure and read through all the comments on the photo as there is a lot of good information in there.


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## outwest

Instead of a historic continental you could consider an English Saddle. The ones I have seen don't have as much top knot and back hair as the full continentals and they look great. I have seen one historic continental actually shown, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be. I am pretty sure the one I saw entered was entered just to create a major. 

One thing I dislike about poodle showing is that there is too much emphasis on the coat. 

You could put her in the historic continental and show for fun letting the owner know that it will be harder to win. I have seen many win in the English Saddle. It is pretty easy to transition into a continental from the ES, too.


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## CharismaticMillie

HCC, modified continental, same thing. Rosettes are optional even with a full continental.


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## CharismaticMillie

outwest said:


> Instead of a historic continental you could consider an English Saddle. The ones I have seen don't have as much top knot and back hair as the full continentals and they look great. I have seen one historic continental actually shown, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be. I am pretty sure the one I saw entered was entered just to create a major.
> 
> One thing I dislike about poodle showing is that there is too much emphasis on the coat.
> 
> You could put her in the historic continental and show for fun letting the owner know that it will be harder to win. I have seen many win in the English Saddle. It is pretty easy to transition into a continental from the ES, too.


Hmm....in my experience you need as much if not more topknot and neck coat with ESC compared to CC to get the proper look. And it's a LOT more time consuming and more difficult to maintain and shape. Continental is WAY easier than English Saddle..


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## Ladyscarletthawk

Thank you spindle for the link that is a nice modified continental! I was taught like charismatic said that modified and HCC were the same thing. I hope I can execute it well, and a few of the comments were helpful and I don't feel the need to have über amount of hair on the dog.. We will be lucky if we have 1/2" of coat on this girl since I had to shave her with a 10 back then. I put her into a Miami trim at that time.


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## Ladyscarletthawk

Outwest this girl doesn't have nearly enough coat to pull off a ES lol. Unfortunately her only choice is a Modified at this time. Plus that would be way too much work for me to maintain on the dogs at my own house let alone on a dog(even if it's my breeding) that I would be at the mercy of someone else's schedule and maintenance schedule.

This little girl is her fathers mini me for sure. When he showed here as a special he did very well. There was an issue between my handler and another handler that was showin in both the std and mini ring. She had not shown the mini the day previously, but apparently it was on! She wiggied her mini class bitch and attempted to shove this bitch down the judge's throat. The stud I used and specialed for the stud owner had not much coat maybe half as much coat as the class bitch (maybe as much as a 12 m old) and still took the breed lol. Anyway coat helps but I know it's not the end all.


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## Ladyscarletthawk

I'm hoping she won't be dumped because she's in a modified, but I know it can happen. If all there is are these three at least there will be points in the ring and it will all be in the family. It's a newer show and venue so the entries are still small but getting bigger it seems. I'm excited as this will be their first show teehee.


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## spindledreams

Grin one reason we are talking to Jaci is her girl in that photo has a 1 point win and I have seen one here get points in a modified which is actually probably a more correct term. They can win in AKC but it is an uphill battle HOWEVER if she has been able to keep coat in the past and may be able to do so in the future why not put the dog in a modified and let them show for experience as the coat grows out. The judges may surprise you. 

UKC of course is another matter with the modified becoming a fairly popular clip as some dogs really look best in that clip. Grin even my girls current version was totally acceptable at Gateway as you can see. Her coat by the way is not as short as it looks that is about 2 inches of hair on her mane. Her ears however are short as they were shaved down in August with a #5, wry grin she is growing out of a German....

Jazz at Gateway by spindledreams, on Flickr


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## Ladyscarletthawk

Nice job Spindle! That is one thing I like about the UKC ring, altho I couldnt enjoy it because my bitch was still showing in AKC *sigh*. How did you meet Jaci Bowman.. I really like how she executed the HCC. Mine never look like that but of course that's on pets too lol. I'm hoping she'll bring her in soon so I can put her in an HCC soon. As for her coat maintenance, with the hubby home now she may not have the consistent time for it .


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## spindledreams

I saw and admired her brown bitch on Facebook. I would love to meet her in person someday. We have "talked" on Facebook and she did give suggestions on tweaking my boys trim. I have since learned she and her brown bitch have a small following by those of us interested in competing in a modified continental since her girl looks so nice. She really has been nice about answering my questions and helping me with my boys clip. She loves that folks are taking the photo of her girl and using it as a guide when they put a dog into a HCC for show competition.


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## Ladyscarletthawk

Dis you friend her? Or just sent a message? I would love her input.. The pet owner saw her siblings and was saddened by the fact that she didn't have anywhere near as much coat as them. I told her I could put her in the modified and showed her the photo of Jaci's beautiful bitch


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## spindledreams

I commented on her photo than sent her a friend request. She did seem really friendly and helpful. Grin I am almost tempted to see if there is a Facebook group for those of us showing in modified continentals as it would be great to have all the hints and tips in one place.


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## Ladyscarletthawk

Well she finally brought her in and here is a picture of the HCC I did on her today.. I hope I did alright.. Hopefully it's good enough for the ring.. I wondered if I had the placement right or if I should have moved the jacket back a tad.. I was in a hurry so it wasn't perfect.. Any thoughts? Comments? Critiques?


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## itzmeigh

I like her! She looks like she has more coat then you thought. She looks very nice in that clip but then the conti is my soft spot. (Hubby says NO for Hazel  we will just see who wins that battle!)

I love her size. How tall is she?


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## Ladyscarletthawk

Thank you! It was a hard decision deciding which pup or pups to keep, as they all had their good and bad points. I loved her coat the most! 
My MIL told me its better ask for forgiveness than permission . I "obey" most of my husbands wishes but if i really want something theres not a damn thing he can do about it ;D! 
I'm not sure her size but her sister is about 11 1/4" and last I saw they were very close in size. Her brother is 12 1/2" at the withers. Here are their pix I took last week. I'm very please with both of them.
Self stack of Miya








Miya








Ken


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## spindledreams

How did the show go?


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## BorderKelpie

Oh! All those dogs are simply GORGEOUS!!!


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## Harmony

I think the right dog in a HCC can be completive. There is no hair to cover up the faults, so it had better be a pretty good Poodle. I know a lady who finished her bitches AKC Grand Championship in a HCC, but she was an amazing girl.


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## Ladyscarletthawk

Sorry spindledreams my fault for not checking the posts lol.. They didn't show until the 6th of December (1yr old exactly!) and unfortunately it was just us lol.. That's fine they got real ring experience.. Ken got breed first day. Freya didnt show until Sunday (two day show) due to owner work schedule.. So Sunday Miya won the breed and the one point lol! Ken and Freya both got dumped.. She won her class but had Reserve withheld from her and if Ken won the crossover then he could of had a point . I handled Miya and my friend showed both Ken and Freya, and she's a very talented handler too. 
I had chatted to the judge not knowin he was my judge before hand lol.. But we think it had to do with the HCC and the fact she handled both dogs both dogs got dumped.. We talked to a friend that has competed against said judge as a handler.. She doesn't have a good opinion of him.. She says he doesn't like the HCC and that he feels it's pure laziness and not being able to grow coat.. Whether this is an opinion or whether he's actually said this who knows. I really think that's why he withheld a reserve if anything else.. She showed well, she's in size, etc.. No other reason I can think of


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## Ladyscarletthawk

Thank you Border!! Forgot to add the candid pix of the pups from the show lol. Oh and Freya's final HCC cut!

Kenshiro 








Miya








The trio after the ring.. Miya is in the back

Freya















Sorry not my camera lol


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## spindledreams

So sorry you ran into one of those judges. Lots of folks don't realize the effort it takes to present a nice properly done HCC. It is by no means a clip for lazy folks or for someone with poor scissoring skills. AND yep those dogs do have to grow a nice coat for that trimmed mane to look nice. Sigh one of the things we had to learn is the mane moves back or forward depending on the length of the scissored mane so it balances things out. THAT is a skill that takes time to learn. Better luck next time you try it.


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## Ladyscarletthawk

Thanks Spindle! I tried really hard to get her to look good, even tho mom had her a lil chuncky lol. I was proud of the trim, but mom saw the siblings in full coat and was a wee bit jelly lol. She decided to grow her out so that she is more competitive.. But I've wondered if I should try my hand at the ES on her. She has a nice enough coat, and it * may* hide that straight angulation of hers.


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## Ladyscarletthawk

Almost forgot!

Miya stacked... After Breed but before OH








Ken stacked








Ken in the group


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