# Myths and Facts about Two Poodles at Once...



## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

Many years ago my boyfriend and I (we were living together) each got a pup, he got a Golden Retriever and I got a German Shepherd. I would never make that same mistake again. My GSD had a fairly submissive personality and bonded much more to the Golden than to me - I was really disappointed. She was still a great dog but I think her personality would have blossomed in to a more loving dog if she had been an "only pup."
I personally don't recommend getting two puppies at the same time because of this, and have heard of many people who have shared this same experience.


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## peccan (Aug 26, 2014)

You already have three dogs in the house?

Disclaimer: most experiences I've heard about double-puppying are a horror to hear. Well it can be done, but it takes serious dedication and lots of expertise, and a very good pick in pups.

BOMFE&IMO temperament is more important than sex when predicting compatibility. It would be nice if one submitted to the other without much fight, but a tender pup would be much happier as an only dog or with a gentle older dog than constantly bullied by a littermate/similar aged puppy. Two young dogs vying for the position of top dog can end up nastily, but so, perhaps even more so, can a dominant and a submissive pup. A dominant pup with a submissive littermate as its companion could end up learning all the wrong things socially, and the other pup could become wary and avoidant of dog interaction. Basically one needs to get two pups with balanced, well-rounded temperaments, and be prepared to spay/neuter at least one dog, or have facilities for special housing, in case of heat aggression or similar trouble.

Well in your case this would be a less major problem, with an actual dog pack in the house. But careful thought must be paid to think how the existing dogs would cope with potentially two little nuisances around, and what sort of behaviour they would give example of and allow.

To succeed:
- two or more people in the household ready to take on a puppy
- taking charges -- one takes care of one puppy, one the other -- this way puppies don't have to always compete for "the" person's attention, and both puppies can get enough one-on-one time for socialization, play, and training; also people's nerves will be spared since even as a stay-home puppy parent, taking on two is a huge task, especially if others in the household happily assume the role of OIB (Over Indulgent Biped)...
- excellent effort in socializing the puppies to positively everything
- conscious effort to minimize separation anxiety in puppies when separated -- lots of one-on-one work and play
- stellar co-operation between the household -- both/all puppy raisers know and go by the same "doggie rules"

So, my bottom line is, know what you're getting into, know the risks, study a lot beforehand and also during, be organized, and make sure everyone's on the same page!

Personally I'd never recommend double puppy. So many ways to go wrong.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Peccan pretty much said it all. And you know, since you have older dogs in the house already, you pretty much would have had to make the same efforts anyhow. Despite heir age difference, Timi would have been lost to me to Teaka if I had not made the effort to take her out alone for at least a couple of hours a day.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Its mostly all been said and said well. If you do go ahead then I feel you must separate the two puppies except for some play time. Also the two puppies must be separated from the pack for some of the time or the pack may become annoyed by them. Sleeping time they can all most likely pile in together but on awakening all hell might be let loose.
Eric.:ahhhhh:


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## Caniche (Jun 10, 2013)

peccan said:


> You already have three dogs in the house?
> 
> Disclaimer: most experiences I've heard about double-puppying are a horror to hear. Well it can be done, but it takes serious dedication and lots of expertise, and a very good pick in pups.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tips. One puppy would definitely be mine (so I would be the caretaker the majority of the time) and one would by my mom's (and she would the that one's caretaker the majority of the time). 

I am not nervous about the current dogs reacting to puppies. They've been through it before and we're familiar with the process. Us humans are the dominant ones and then there's a pecking order with age, but all of our dogs enjoy puppies and tolerate them when they're annoying (and gently put them in their place when necessary). 

I would be more worried about the two puppies bonding together closer than bonding to us as individuals.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Caniche said:


> Thanks for the tips. One puppy would definitely be mine (so I would be the caretaker the majority of the time) and one would by my mom's (and she would the that one's caretaker the majority of the time).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If they are just going to have play times, but not constantly be together, it will be a great thing.
Just remember to sign them up for Petplan their first day home!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I don't think this is a matter of a one-size formula for success fits all. Not in the individual dogs, the breed, the humans in the picture, the environment. I think there are so many factors and variables that any blanket statement to me, sounds like myth.

I had two adult Chihuahuas at home when I brought home my two 8 week old puppies from a reputable breeder near by me. Two males, now 2 years old and intact. I would under no circumstances house two male Dobermans together. But Poodles...meh. No problems here. 

I talked with my breeder a little bit about these horror stories about not bonding well enough with the humans, and is it okay to get two males? etc etc...and he looked at me like I had two heads. "Where'd ya hear that? Nah...you won't have any trouble with_ these _Poodles. They have wonderful temperaments and they're Poodles!" LOL. So, home I trudged with Matisse and my side-kick, Maurice. I wasn't planning on two, but I couldn't pass up Maurice. 

I had a nice ex pen for them and two crates. I still use my ex pen at times...like when I leave the house to go shopping or something and for day time naps. 

They spent a lot of time together, but some time apart. Being together kept them from crying at bed time (though they each slept in their own crate but next to each other) and when I'd leave the house, they were in the ex pen together...no problemo. 

They each, including my older dogs got their own walk and still do, though sometimes we all go out together. (I don't have Chulita anymore so I'm down to 3) They each get their own training sessions, usually incorporated in their walk, but sometimes at other times during the day...little snatches here and there. Jose`, my Chi doesn't really need much in the way of training but we do a little practice here and there for the fun of it.

Matisse took handling class with me and we'd be gone for several hours once a week and we went to shows for days and Maurice stayed home with Jose` and my ex who watched them. No problem with that....no separation anxiety or anything.

I use to take them often, one at a time to a pet store, Home Depot or some such place where they could socialize and just be with me.

But they did spend plenty of time together and still do. They spend more time together than separate. 

They took a lot of time and tons of supervision...lots of work. In some ways though, it was easier having the two of them, as they kept each other company too when I was busy or something. They felt very secure when left alone until they learned they could cope all alone for short periods so it eased them into things like that.

This is how they are now at 2: They're both crazy about me and each other. They get in squabbles now and then over a toy or some such nonsense. They obey me quite well. They can be called off of the distraction of each other while playing if I need one to come to me for something. If they're out in the field playing and chasing, if I call one, he or both will come. So they definitely don't ignore me unless we're talking about some distraction that they're just not ready for in their training. But it's not about each other that is the distraction. If I go upstairs, one might follow me, the other might not. Matisse is more my shadow I'd say. Maurice is a tad more independent, at least in some ways.

I do some training with all three of them at a time...there are some fun things to do that you can do that way. For instance, I'm teaching them all to stay back when I open the door and even when I walk out into the yard or hide around the corner. Little by little, they're getting better at it. I do that with all of them together. They totally pay attention to me...and have a ball together too.

Here they are...the three of them (little Maurice is hard to see) learning to stay back behind the threshold of the door when I open it to go out, when I ring the bell and make a commotion and then go out...they pay attention and are very trainable. It doesn't matter if they grew up together from 8 weeks of age or not. 



I think it's important to have some one on one time with each puppy. Plenty of training using progressive methods, some activities...going in the car someplace with each dog separately and then sometimes together too. I don't think it's nice to separate them a huge amount of time. They enjoy and entertain each other, learn from each other. It doesn't mean they don't like or bond with humans. I think that's a myth...unless the puppies are neglected or not given adequate attention and training. Then naturally they'll gravitate to each other. They are social creatures in a very big way. And they're also designed to live and get along with humans by a convergent evolution with humans. So it shouldn't be_ that _hard as long as you're prepared to put into them what you want to get out of them. Work smart, learn about operant training concepts and make sure you have a lot and I mean a lot of time on your hands. lol.


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## FlyingNimbus (Jun 1, 2014)

When Nimbus was a pup my brother used to bring around his slighter older puppy almost everyday, it was great watching them play and romp together but when I wanted to play with him or have some cuddles he made it very obvious he'd rather go play with Marcy. Every time I told him to wait or sit, things he knew very well at that point, he'd always turn round and look at Marcy to see if she was doing it. If she was he'd be a good boy and copy, if she wasn't he'd ignore me and do his own thing.
As they got older Bim doesn't see Marcy as much and when she comes round now Nim makes sure I don't feel left out, always checking up on me and bringing me his toys. If Marcy comes up for a fuss Nimbus has to makes sure I'm his person afterwards! If he had kept on seeing Marcy as much I'm sure it would be a lot different now.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

FlyingNimbus said:


> When Nimbus was a pup my brother used to bring around his slighter older puppy almost everyday, it was great watching them play and romp together but when I wanted to play with him or have some cuddles he made it very obvious he'd rather go play with Marcy. Every time I told him to wait or sit, things he knew very well at that point, he'd always turn round and look at Marcy to see if she was doing it. If she was he'd be a good boy and copy, if she wasn't he'd ignore me and do his own thing.
> As they got older Bim doesn't see Marcy as much and when she comes round now Nim makes sure I don't feel left out, always checking up on me and bringing me his toys. If Marcy comes up for a fuss Nimbus has to makes sure I'm his person afterwards! If he had kept on seeing Marcy as much I'm sure it would be a lot different now.


I see that as a very different scenario...very. Your brother's dog is novel...it's a break in the day where something super fun is happening. It's just night and day to me, from raising two puppies together in the same household. I think if a good, solid foundation is laid right from the get go...strong bonding, lots of one on one, a good, tight bond is made. It shouldn't matter if another dog is part of the family if the human is just as fun or better fun and resource- dispensing than the other pup. lol.

Telling your dog to sit and he doesn't could have a lot of other reasons. The behavior isn't on stimulus control, for one thing so when people say their dog "knows" it probably doesn't...not really. Only in one or two specific contexts that it's been trained in. A dog doesn't know a behavior really truly until it can be performed in any context, scenario, distraction, environment, etc. Your dog is simply distracted and more motivated by the other dog. It doesn't mean that your dog didn't bond to you. Training is one thing. Bonding is another. 

Two puppies being raised together can most certainly bond with their human and become well trained when all the variables conducive. jmo. I've seen other people with two puppies turn out nice dogs too. I'm sure some of it depends on their temperament as well. But so it does with a single dog...how well it will turn out.


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## FlyingNimbus (Jun 1, 2014)

My brother's dog didn't just pop round for visits she did basically live with us, my brother used to drop her off early in the morning and she might have been picked up late at night, this happened for a good few months. I'm not stating that two pups is a bad idea just sharing my experience, that's all.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I don't think I could raise two puppies the way that I consider to be proper. Personally, I wouldn't do it - or wouldn't want to!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

FlyingNimbus said:


> My brother's dog didn't just pop round for visits she did basically live with us, my brother used to drop her off early in the morning and she might have been picked up late at night, this happened for a good few months. I'm not stating that two pups is a bad idea just sharing my experience, that's all.


Oh, I see. Well, I don't know then, why it worked for my two. They are each very attentive to me, responsive, come over to me when I call if they're involved in wrestling together or chasing each other around the yard. They'll stop what they're doing in favor of coming over to me. Maurice loves cuddling up on the couch when we watch TV. He'll hang out with me for a long time. Matisse will check in or lie on the rug near by but he's kind of busy doing his own thing, finding a good toy or whatnot in the early evening when it's TV watching time or if I lie down for a little bit in the late afternoon. If something worries or spooks any one of my dogs, they come to me and sometimes want to be picked up. They don't go to each other.

If I run upstairs and the two are playing tug with a rope toy say...Matisse will break away and follow me up stairs. Sometimes Maurice will follow and sometimes he'll opt to stay downstairs and chew on the toy. 

They both have learned a lot of things, separately and together. They don't have separation anxiety if one leaves with me to go to a pet store or whatever. I just have no problems with these two. Maybe part of it is that they're so different in their temperaments. Both awesome temperaments but very different...different interests, different likes, different energy levels and needs for outlets. Just different.

I _can _say it has been...during their early puppy hood, (not so much now) a lot of work and supervision...very hard at times when one would go one way and the other would go the other way. And time consuming. If you don't have loads of time, I wouldn't try it. They need plenty of individual attention and training.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Right now, as I sit here on the computer, Matisse and Jose` are lying down resting on either side of me. Maurice is around the corner in the other room napping. I think he's in his ex pen. He likes it in there where his cushy bed is. So go figure. They don't care if the other isn't around. lol.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Lily and Peeves were puppies together. There were advantages and disadvantages. They taught each other impeccable bite inhibition and because we have been lucky to be able to free feed them both neither of them is in any way shape or form a resource guarder. Once they were both housebroken (nearly simultaneously) there were no more worries over whare they were, same with concerns about chewing shoes and the like. They grew out of puppy and adolescent issues at the same time.

That being said there are special challenges to adding dogs to a preexisting dog household. You have to make sure that everyone gets the time and attention they need and deserve. There are the added costs for food and vet care, the added time/cost of grooming. I am very well established in my life and thinking more about retirement than worrying whether I have enough money to get to the end of the month. Even with the stability I have I know that the one definite spoo pup and probable GSD pup being added to our household over the next four months is a huge commitment. I don't think I could have managed it when I was younger. I have put two years of thought into my puppy plans and have waited carefully for the right opportunities. Make sure that you have thought out your decision before you act on it.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Oh yes...that bite inhibition. My goodness. My two Poodle puppies learned to mouth gently on humans within something like 2 weeks. They just totally got it. Their relationship and how they played together so much had a lot to do with it. I had no trouble with that biting and wild stuff. Crying and whining was pretty much non existent because they could fall back on that security of each other. It didn't mean they weren't about to bond to me. But there was the other puppy that was familiar and it just build some security into each of them I think that would help them feel ready to branch out into the new frontier, with new challenges. lol. To bravely go where no dog has gone before. 

Matisse and Maurice eat together in their ex pen. I have to close the door or Jose` will devour anything that resembles food in a nanosecond. So they don't tend to have a problem with food. Maurice will get snarky sometimes over a toy. Not even a very high value one. He must think everything is super great. But it's only occasional. I don't know why he does that sometimes and sometimes not. Or if Matisse is bugging him and hanging on him, he'll turn around and scold. But that's okay. They never escalate to a real fight...little grrr here and there is all. I never had that though with Jose` and Chulita....maybe because they were opposite sex or different age a little bit...or just more easy going. There are so many variables. The Chihuahuas were really less intense and kind of easy going...I'd say more so that these Poodlens.


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