# more OT doodle stuff



## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

My issue with doodles is that they are typically no longer being bred for a purpose other than MONEY. They were originally bred for service dog work (not sure why as poodles make amazing service dogs but whatever) and now I hardly see a stable enough doodle that could handle such a job.
It's also the lies and misconceptions about them being tossed about by unscrupulous doodle breeders that irks me. Do not lie about your "breed" to make it look better than a purebred poodle or a purebred golden. What are the true merits of the mix that justifies their breeding?

I have yet to see an ETHICAL doodle breeder.


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

yup, it's the ethics of the breeding that I disagree with, not the fact it's a cross breed.

They cross horse breeds [generally for a purpose though] all the time. And cats too (tonkinese are a cross of burmese & siamese. Then you get burmillas and tiffanies etc that are all crosses too) but there is no issue over those crosses at all, because they're generally done with as much ethics as any purebred breeding program. Of course stupid byb of cats are slammed, regardless of what breed or cross breed they're dealing with.

If it was the same with dogs and there were ethical breeders doing all the testing and finding a good stud (rather than the neighbours dog cos he's handy) etc etc etc etc then I'd have no problem with the dogs or the breeder, I just haven't seen that yet.


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## BFF (Jun 10, 2009)

frostfirestandards said:


> If I wanted a hyper hairy slobber monster I would pen up my poodles till they had hairy faces and then feed them a bucket of skittles, but like I said...random things pop into my head.... I need another hobby. LOL


:rofl:

That's funny!


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

My issue with doodles is people breed them for the same reasons people want poodles.. smart, low shedding, cute, but they charge an arm and a leg for them with outragious sales pitches. It's a made up breed and the 'in' thing.

Besides.. I HATE how all their dogs look like ungroomed walking crappy rugs on their sites. I would be embarrassed if my dog looked like that, at least brush them and bathe them out before taking pictures ffs.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

There is no reason what so ever to purposely breed a Mutt. None. Ever.

I have my own issues with breeding in general but those aside I will never be okay with "Doodles".

With cats there are a limited number of pedigreed cats and by crossing they are actually _helping_ some breeds. There are maybe 100+ cat breeds, there are a 1000+ dog breeds and many of those have been a "breed" for many years.

I don't know much about horses but like with cats breeding different breeds together helps more often then hinders. With dogs, not so much.


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

BFF said:


> :rofl:
> 
> That's funny!


I aim to please!:wacko:


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

Purple Poodle said:


> There is no reason what so ever to purposely breed a Mutt. None. Ever.
> 
> I have my own issues with breeding in general but those aside I will never be okay with "Doodles".
> 
> ...


I can see where crossbreeding SOME dogs would be benificial to introduce some new blood or fix cosmetic things that pose health risks (bullogs anyone?) 

I heard that they at one time opened the studbooks in Dalmatians because of the deafness issues in the breed. (cant remember where I heard that) 

in some cases it should be done IMO 


doodles doodles everywhere! I personally ont like the look of them... I never know what to do with the wispy hair on the ears. the one I groomed the other day was pretty decent looking conformation wise. She wasnt really gangly looking and actually WAS square and was not crazy hyper, I was shocked. most of the ones I see are painfully dysplastic and bounce off the walls. They tend to look like wirehaired goldens. 

IA that the reason they have such a stigma about them is that the BYBs got on the money train as they tend to do and jumped at the next big thing in dogdom. 

Its really sad because its the dog owners and the dogs themselves that suffer the fallout, and the greeders who reep the financial reward while the owners go into debt trying to save their beloved pet.


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## Mandycasey'smom (Jan 3, 2009)

Idon't like the fact that a purebred poodle is cheaper then a mutt right now.
All these people walking around saying it is a great "breed" I paid 2000 like that makes your mutt so much better then the one found in the spca.

Lots of doodles around my new house because it is brand new survey of all new up and comers who have to beat the jones's


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Locket said:


> My issue with doodles is that they are typically no longer being bred for a purpose other than MONEY. They were originally bred for service dog work (not sure why as poodles make amazing service dogs but whatever) and now I hardly see a stable enough doodle that could handle such a job.
> It's also the lies and misconceptions about them being tossed about by unscrupulous doodle breeders that irks me. Do not lie about your "breed" to make it look better than a purebred poodle or a purebred golden. What are the true merits of the mix that justifies their breeding?
> 
> I have yet to see an ETHICAL doodle breeder.


IA 100%!

I would say I have a problem with the fact that they are crossbreeding w/ no purpose and that Doodle breeder is synonomous with BYB/*Puppymill*. 

I can respect crossbreeding for legitimate purposes. It's common here to cross Great Pyrenees w/ Anatolian Shepherds. I believe it began b/c Anatolians were hard to find and Great Pyreness were prevalent but their working ability was becoming watered down. The people were crossed these breeds were interested in working ability and wouldn't continue to do so if it weren't succesful. Most of these mixes are sold as working dogs (not pets). Hunters also use various mixes. I have no problem w/ that. Doodles on the other hand were supposedly created for service dogs, but I'm becoming skeptical of that. Like Locket said, Poodles can do service work and there are other low shedding breeds out there. Common sense says that mixing a low shedding breed w/ a very high shedding breed isn't going to get you very many low shedding puppies.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

We have a lot of Doodles in our community and I have spent the last 5+ years lurking on Doodle boards to monitor the Doodle breeding trend.

I think Doodles are a horrible combination. The mix of Poodle and Lab/Golden creates an athletic, impulsive dog that problem solves well but which has no internal shut-off mechanism. Over and over on the Doodle boards I hear about dogs that are very challenging to train. The don't take NO for an answer and they have the extended adolescence of the Retrievers. These dogs are Hell on wheels (nipping, jumping, chewing, pulling, counter surfing, running away etc) until they are about 3 yrs old and then they tend to get fat and lazy very quickly.

Also, I believe that Doodles have seriously unstable temperaments. I have NEVER, in any breed, seen such trouble with owner aggression and resource guarding as I have seen on the Doodle owner Internet forums.

Breeding these dogs does a huge disservice to pet owners. People looking for a non-shedding pet would be better off getting a Poodle which over-all has a much more complacent temperament.


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## Savannah (Jan 15, 2010)

frostfirestandards said:


> I personally do not care for doodles, If I wanted a hyper hairy slobber monster I would pen up my poodles till they had hairy faces and then feed them a bucket of skittles, but like I said...random things pop into my head.... I need another hobby. LOL


LMAO!!! That's hilarious!! 

I can't speak for other purebred people, but I have to say my only issue with the doodles is the irresponsible breeding practices, especially the lies and misinformation. All breeds have to start somewhere, and the most logical place to start is a crossbreed that has certain desirable traits. Where they go wrong is in simply saying "good enough" and calling that crossbreed a finished product. What's worse, they tout their puppies as the answer to every dog problem.

Any breed claiming their dogs are problem free (no shedding, no behavior problems, little or no health issues) is creating irresponsible owners and setting the dogs up for failure. I personally feel that everyone needs to be made aware of how difficult, time-consuming, expensive, and heart-breaking it is to own a dog. Dogs end up at the pound by the thousands because people assume that owning a dog is as simple as feeding it daily.

We need to change the widely held belief that owning a dog is easy. If more people were aware of the actual responsibilities of a dog, people would think a lot harder before bringing one home, and fewer dogs would end up at the pound.


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## Savannah (Jan 15, 2010)

Locket said:


> My issue with doodles is that they are typically no longer being bred for a purpose other than MONEY. They were originally bred for service dog work (not sure why as poodles make amazing service dogs but whatever) and now I hardly see a stable enough doodle that could handle such a job.
> It's also the lies and misconceptions about them being tossed about by unscrupulous doodle breeders that irks me. Do not lie about your "breed" to make it look better than a purebred poodle or a purebred golden. What are the true merits of the mix that justifies their breeding?
> 
> I have yet to see an ETHICAL doodle breeder.


forgive me for not citing proper sources (I'm posting from my phone, at work). But I do know why doodles were created rather than using poodles. The original Labradoodle was created in Australia when a company that breeds and trains service dogs received a request for a hypoallergenic seeing eye dog. I'm terribly sorry I've forgotten the name of the man in charge of this, but he immediately thought of Standard Poodles and assumed he would have no problem due to their high trainability. He then proceeded to start training several. And ended up putting over thirty Spoos through the training program and finding that almost none of them could be trained as reliable seeing eye dogs. That was when he realized he'd have to try something else, so he crossed his best-producing Lab with a promising poodle and proceeded to train the offspring as seeing eye dogs. He originally did not name the "breed" nor did he intend to start a trend.

Standard Poodles make fabulous service dogs in many, many areas, but for some reason don't possess the temperament to be a seeing eye dog.

I do believe the original lab-poodle crosses were created for the right reasons, and I'm glad. I just wish it hadn't become such a trend. Breeding a carefully bred Lab from a line of service dogs with a Poodle that has a known stable temperament is very different from breeding any random pet Lab with any random pet Poodle. Also, the breeders never tell anyone that these mixes are high energy, and have a strong drive to work. They would not have so many behavior problems if their dogs were properly exercised, trained, and given a job to do.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

frostfirestandards said:


> I can see where crossbreeding SOME dogs would be benificial to introduce some new blood or fix cosmetic things that pose health risks (bullogs anyone?)
> 
> I heard that they at one time opened the studbooks in Dalmatians because of the deafness issues in the breed. (cant remember where I heard that)
> 
> in some cases it should be done IMO


I have seen where they did a cross between Boxers and Corgis to get naturally bobbed tails and they have even started crossing Clumbers and Cockers to better the Clumber but this is _completely_ different then taking two breeds breeding them together and calling them something different.

I still don't believe the excuse of needing a no to low shed service dog because of allergies. How many blind or handicapped people have dog allergies?


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## Flake (Oct 18, 2009)

Savannah said:


> forgive me for not citing proper sources (I'm posting from my phone, at work). But I do know why doodles were created rather than using poodles. The original Labradoodle was created in Australia when a company that breeds and trains service dogs received a request for a hypoallergenic seeing eye dog. I'm terribly sorry I've forgotten the name of the man in charge of this, but he immediately thought of Standard Poodles and assumed he would have no problem due to their high trainability. He then proceeded to start training several. And ended up putting over thirty Spoos through the training program and finding that almost none of them could be trained as reliable seeing eye dogs. That was when he realized he'd have to try something else, so he crossed his best-producing Lab with a promising poodle and proceeded to train the offspring as seeing eye dogs. He originally did not name the "breed" nor did he intend to start a trend.
> 
> Standard Poodles make fabulous service dogs in many, many areas, but for some reason don't possess the temperament to be a seeing eye dog.
> 
> I do believe the original lab-poodle crosses were created for the right reasons, and I'm glad. I just wish it hadn't become such a trend. Breeding a carefully bred Lab from a line of service dogs with a Poodle that has a known stable temperament is very different from breeding any random pet Lab with any random pet Poodle. Also, the breeders never tell anyone that these mixes are high energy, and have a strong drive to work. They would not have so many behavior problems if their dogs were properly exercised, trained, and given a job to do.


Well put. They were very very careful about the first few labradoodles ever bred. If only it stayed this way, and as you said, didn't take off as such a trend. They should have never been made available for the general public.


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## Flake (Oct 18, 2009)

Purple Poodle said:


> I have seen where they did a cross between Boxers and Corgis to get naturally bobbed tails and they have even started crossing Clumbers and Cockers to better the Clumber but this is _completely_ different then taking two breeds breeding them together and calling them something different.
> 
> I still don't believe the excuse of needing a no to low shed service dog because of allergies. How many blind or handicapped people have dog allergies?


The same ratio as people without handicap with allergies, no doubt.


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Savannah said:


> forgive me for not citing proper sources (I'm posting from my phone, at work). But I do know why doodles were created rather than using poodles. The original Labradoodle was created in Australia when a company that breeds and trains service dogs received a request for a hypoallergenic seeing eye dog. I'm terribly sorry I've forgotten the name of the man in charge of this, but he immediately thought of Standard Poodles and assumed he would have no problem due to their high trainability. He then proceeded to start training several. And ended up putting over thirty Spoos through the training program and finding that almost none of them could be trained as reliable seeing eye dogs. That was when he realized he'd have to try something else, so he crossed his best-producing Lab with a promising poodle and proceeded to train the offspring as seeing eye dogs. He originally did not name the "breed" nor did he intend to start a trend.
> 
> Standard Poodles make fabulous service dogs in many, many areas, but for some reason don't possess the temperament to be a seeing eye dog.
> 
> I do believe the original lab-poodle crosses were created for the right reasons, and I'm glad. I just wish it hadn't become such a trend. Breeding a carefully bred Lab from a line of service dogs with a Poodle that has a known stable temperament is very different from breeding any random pet Lab with any random pet Poodle. Also, the breeders never tell anyone that these mixes are high energy, and have a strong drive to work. They would not have so many behavior problems if their dogs were properly exercised, trained, and given a job to do.


But, I believe the story ended, with it being a complete and utter flop, and they needed to rehome these dogs as pets, and someone coined up Labradoodle.

In our country, there is a place that breeds registered standard poodles as seeing eye dogs. I don't know how successful they are, but I met one of them that was still in training, with a blind person, and it was working well.


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

cbrand said:


> We have a lot of Doodles in our community and I have spent the last 5+ years lurking on Doodle boards to monitor the Doodle breeding trend.
> 
> I think Doodles are a horrible combination. The mix of Poodle and Lab/Golden creates an athletic, impulsive dog that problem solves well but which has no internal shut-off mechanism. Over and over on the Doodle boards I hear about dogs that are very challenging to train. The don't take NO for an answer and they have the extended adolescence of the Retrievers. These dogs are Hell on wheels (nipping, jumping, chewing, pulling, counter surfing, running away etc) until they are about 3 yrs old and then they tend to get fat and lazy very quickly.
> 
> ...



Cbrand, 
Do you think its the way the dogs were bred, or do you think its more about the type of people who like trendy new things, and want a trendy new breed of dog? 

most doodle owners were inexperienced dog owners with no idea what goes into training and living with a dog. 

then again alot of poorly bred labs I have seen have been crazy hyper as have some goldens 


:doh:


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Purple Poodle said:


> I have seen where they did a cross between Boxers and Corgis to get naturally bobbed tails and they have even started crossing Clumbers and Cockers to better the Clumber but this is _completely_ different then taking two breeds breeding them together and calling them something different.
> 
> *I still don't believe the excuse of needing a no to low shed service dog because of allergies. How many blind or handicapped people have dog allergies?*


Even if the disabled person isn't alleric, service dogs are allowed to go all sorts of places where other people have allergies. Just b/c the handicapped person is allergy free, doesn't mean everyone they work with, shop with, etc is. You also have to take any family members into account. 

As for the story about the Standard Poodles not working out as as Seeing Eye Dogs, I would love to know exactly what is so different about a Poodle than a Lab/Golden? Where did those particular Poodles come from? BYBs? The seeing eye dog programs in the states usually raise there own dogs b/c your average Lab can't do the job either. Why give up on Poodles and not "doodles"? Why would you put Poodle in the mix if so many failed in the first place? Why not Schnauzers or Airedales, etc? "Doodles" as seeing eye dogs were a flop too, how many seeing eye doodles do you see around? If they had worked out, they would be everywhere b/c like I said, people w/ disabilities take their dogs all sorts of places where allergies are an issue and dog hair is inconvienent. 

I would also like to point out that grooming plays a big role in allergic reactions. If Labs/Goldens were groomed as often as your typical Poodle it would ease many allergic reactions. Instead they are probably bathed a few times a year and brushed infrequently.

I know the question was for Cbrand, but I do think many of the behavioral problems in "doodles" and other real) breeds are because their owners fail to educate themselves are just pick out something trendy or cute. You have to be seriously lacking in intelligence to pay thousands for a mutt, so how capable can you be of training a dog?


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## *tina* (Jan 3, 2010)

I know here in Hawaii, there are a LOT of doodle service dogs, but that's because the service dog organization here breeds them. 

http://www.hawaiifido.org/index.html

Of course, they have other dog breeds in their program also. They don't specifically do seeing-eye dogs. I know that their program really is good, for here in Hawaii, because otherwise it's nearly impossible to get service dogs to train in Hawaii, because of the quarantine.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

frostfirestandards said:


> Cbrand,
> Do you think its the way the dogs were bred, or do you think its more about the type of people who like trendy new things, and want a trendy new breed of dog?
> 
> most doodle owners were inexperienced dog owners with no idea what goes into training and living with a dog.
> ...


I think it is five-fold.

1. *People breeding Doodles are themselves not experienced dog people.* They don't have backgrounds in showing or training for performance. Because of this, they don't know what good working/training temperament is or how to select for it. Also many Doodle breeders keep dogs in kennels or in guardian homes so they don't even know if their breeding dogs have temperaments compatible with home life.

2. *Doodle breeding stock is often the worst of the worst. * Doodle breeders pick up breeding dogs from puppy mills and backyard breeders. I have seen a number of Doodle breeders admit to the fact that they bought their breeding dogs off of Craigslist or the newpaper from families who were looking to get rid of them.

3. *Doodle breeders have too many litters.* It is not uncommon to have a litter or two on the ground every month. One breeder in California, Heather Hale who is a member of the Australian Labradoodle Club of America, had 8 litters between the 1st of December 2009 and the end of January 2010. It is impossible to correctly handle, train and socialize that many puppies. I think the majority of Doodle puppies go home without a solid training/handling foundation.

4. *Doodle owners are inexperienced dog owners.* As a group, I have never seen such clueless dog owners! Part of it is inexperience and part of it is inherent personality and temperament. They are almost to a person a group of people who buy into hype and fads without seeking out truth and substance. Many of them are impulse buyers (OH Doodles are sooooooo cute!), people who have their image wrapped up in a dog (Poodles will make my sons look like sissies!) or people who treat their dogs like living stuffed animals. These personality types are a bad combination with a mixed breed that is impulsive, stubborn but very smart, and very athletic.

5. *The Doodle mix doesn't work well*. In my experience there is something wrong with the mix. You get a dog with all of the athleticism of the Poodle and all of the impulsive behavior of the Lab/Golden. These dogs seem to have little respect for their owners. They are pushy and far too many of them are dog and people aggressive.


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## Mister (Sep 10, 2008)

For me its for two main reasons. 
1. The poodle is an amazing breed all on its own so why the heck do you need to taint it (lol) by mixing it with every other dog out there (shih tzu, pom, cocker, lab, golden, saint bernard, Lhasa, maltese, yorkie, etc)????? If you want something that is smart and GURANTEED not to shed then get a poodle! They are just as pricey as a golden/labradoodle anyways.....unless you get a byb poo mix then you can get it for a few hundred bucks.
2. The people that own doodles and doint brush the dog and let it get matted completely to the skin and then come in and ask me to save the hair because they like it long.....well if you like it long then BRUSH YOUR DOG!!!! Ha ha im glad i dont groom anymore because i used to do a bunch of doodles up in Seattle. They were always matted and i would always get the same response from owners "i dont want it to look like a Poodle".....well then why did you geta dog that was Half or more POODLE ?????

I also dont like all the "designer" breeds, if you want a poodle then get a poodle stop cross breeding it with every other dog out there. It really irks me the wrong way!

Oh and i think that the stereotype that Poodle are fo fo and high maintenance has a lot to do with it but if your mixing another breed with a poodle then it will still need to be groomed so again why not just a get a purebred poodle lol.


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## Leooonie (May 30, 2009)

Its true about it being a bad mix - Harley is for sure the cleverest dog in my dog class (at 10months old he's also the youngest..cleverer than a beardieof about the same age), but I can see he's started to properly calm down from puppy.
I cannot imagine having a dog as clever as he is, running my life like labs and goldens do do their owners.



The dalmatian pointer backcross project is talked about here:
http://www.dalmatianheritage.com/about/nash_research.htm

dalies were crossed with pointers .. 

I think all dog breeds could easily be crossed with close cousins, if fine examples of both breeds were used.
Whats the difference in crossing cat breeds with corssing dog breeds.
there are many more dog breeds than cat breeds, but many more hereditary dog diseases... doesn't this show you something?


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## Trillium (Sep 1, 2009)

I've got to say I've seen a lot of doodles at various places and most were pulling their owners everywhere and generally being horribly behaved. I think that we have met about 3 (maybe) that were well behaved. 

I too think its a combination of things bad breeding, bad training and fundamentally a bad combination of dogs put together. I love poodles and like both labs and golden retrievers but don't like doodles. I think way too many people buy into the hype that tells people that these dogs are so smart they almost train themselves. No dog does that they all take time. When a person that is a first time dog owner buys into that the results aren't great.


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Leooonie said:


> Its true about it being a bad mix - Harley is for sure the cleverest dog in my dog class (at 10months old he's also the youngest..cleverer than a beardieof about the same age), but I can see he's started to properly calm down from puppy.
> I cannot imagine having a dog as clever as he is, running my life like labs and goldens do do their owners.
> 
> 
> ...


It tells me there are way more irresponsible dog breeders? Most "cousin" dog breeds have the same issues so what would crossbreeding accomplish? (Almost every single large breed is affected by HD so what would you cross to?) "Doodles" are genetically diverse and still plagued by disease. I don't subscribe to thought that outcrossing will solve everything, but there are big enough populations in most breeds that outcrossing can be done w/o mixing. I just think the idea that inbreeding is responsible for everything is simplistic and it applies human emotions to dog breeding.


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

ew ew ew, just spotted an ad for "Whoodledor puppies"; wheaton terriers X labradoodle. *sigh*


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## Reesmom (Feb 4, 2010)

Up until 2 years ago I managed a canine activity center. We would have as many as 5 or 6 doodles in a class at a time. I groomed some of them. All were sorry they had purchased them for all the reasons Cbrand mentioned. Most were re homed with in a year or shortly after. *All* were inexperienced dog owners. All were told some crazy sales gimic like they wouldn't shed and were healthier than purebreds. 2 were still coming to me for grooming and finally stopped when she asked me why I wouldn't come down on my prices for the 100th time. ($80 ea.) I told her she should have done her research better. 

All those dogs were exactly like what Cbrand said. I have had labs. I love them. I know goldens that are awesome. I adore my poodles. The cross just doesn't work for some reason.


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## Purple Poodle (May 5, 2008)

I got an email this morning and I I could not believe it, there are now Lamiedoodles, although cute I am sure they are going to be the next craze in doodles. They even come in pastel colors.

:lol:

I'm sorry I just had to post this, I was checking my email and looking through the King Wholesale weekly specials and I laughed out loud at thous. I may need to get one just to say I own a "Doodle"

:biggrin: :sheep:


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## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

I love Goldens, and I love Poodles. I have yet to meet a Doodle on the beach or around town that isn't a bundle of overactive energy and uncontrollable on/off leash. (and huge!!) Goldens are so smart, sweet and eager to please. Poodles are smart and clever. Separately these are absolutely great breeds, why mess with something already wonderful as-is?


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## cerulia (Jan 7, 2010)

Fluffyspoos said:


> My issue with doodles is people breed them for the same reasons people want poodles.. smart, low shedding, cute, but they charge an arm and a leg for them with outragious sales pitches. It's a made up breed and the 'in' thing.


I wholeheartedly agree with this. Doodle People I've heard from like to brag about how golden or labradoodles are so awesome because they're smart and they don't shed. Well, hello! My dog is brilliant and she doesn't shed--what makes her less than a dog that also has lab or golden blood?


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

lmao! this one was posted on another forum, note the very last line....

"Top quality parents, we own both. We welcome visits to see both the puppy and the parents.
Dad is a Pedigree Apricot Toy Poodle and Mum is a Pedigree Blue Roan Cocker Spaniel.
This makes the puppies as close to Pedigree as Possible!"


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

Purple Poodle said:


> I got an email this morning and I I could not believe it, there are now Lamiedoodles, although cute I am sure they are going to be the next craze in doodles. They even come in pastel colors.
> 
> :lol:
> 
> ...




LOL my dogs love these....to pieces! 
Except for Kaden, who babies his toys


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

What is wrong with some people???

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Pets-animals/Dogs/Dogs/auction-277322986.htm

So they buy this labradoodle puppy, and they get home, realise they don't have it fully fenced so are selling him?

It says he is 8 weeks old!?!?
:wacko:


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Jak that ad expired but it's pretty sad that an 8wk old puppy is going to his third home (if you count the breeder). He should only just now be leaving his mom and litter mates. If sending doodles home at 6wks of age or earlier is common practice then maybe that's another reason why they have so many behavioral problems. 

When I clicked on the link, an ad for a "carindoodle x min Schnauzer" came up for a $700. The first generation crosses are bad enough but now people are charging outrageous prices for staight up mutts. The only half way decent, but still bogus, argument I've heard from owners/breeders of "designer dogs" is that they know the parentage. You only have the word of someone diliberately breeding mutts that the dogs make up is what it is. People like that have no credibility IMO. It's insanity!!!!!


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## apoodleaday (Feb 22, 2010)

Lacey and I were playing at the school today and met a doodle. Started out as a nice dog. Long story short, doodle ended up taking Lacey's wubba and chewing it up, wouldn't let Lacey play with it. Wouldn't come to mom or even listen to mom. Wouldn't relinquish the toy to mom. Woman was very apologetic, commented on what a nice well behaved dog I have and was amazed that she is a real dog even though she is so pretty. If she'd known poodles were such great dogs, she would've just gotten one of those :doh:


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## Leooonie (May 30, 2009)

> It tells me there are way more irresponsible dog breeders? Most "cousin" dog breeds have the same issues so what would crossbreeding accomplish? (Almost every single large breed is affected by HD so what would you cross to?) "Doodles" are genetically diverse and still plagued by disease. I don't subscribe to thought that outcrossing will solve everything, but there are big enough populations in most breeds that outcrossing can be done w/o mixing. I just think the idea that inbreeding is responsible for everything is simplistic and it applies human emotions to dog breeding.


Well Harley_Chik, I think your response is the sort of one that is irresponsible.
The reason Dals were crossed with pointers was to reintroduce the uric acid gene back into the dals. Obviously the parents are HEALTH-CHECKED. this was by breeders that understand genetics and so can predict results with pretty fair accuracy. therefore hips etc would be taken into account. They're not idiots.

Doodles are, in a sense 'diverse' but, they're NOT due to the length of which people go to get labsand poodles. most are inbred.
There are not diverse enough genetics in a breed to add any health. for example, pugs are less diverse than pandas!
in the UK, for example, there is equivalent to only 500 seperate dogs, yet there are many more than this.

Your last point on inbreeding being simplistic and 'emotional' is.. rubbish.
If you breed with your uncle, there's going to be something wrong with the kids after a while.
The same goes with dogs.
Maybe learn more about the topic before claiming that it is simplistic.


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## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

Purple Poodle said:


> I got an email this morning and I I could not believe it, there are now Lamiedoodles, although cute I am sure they are going to be the next craze in doodles. They even come in pastel colors.
> 
> :lol:
> 
> ...


Haha! Teddy has one. I didn't know it had a name. 

I guess I have a doodle, then.


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## Buck (Oct 22, 2009)

apoodleaday said:


> Lacey and I were playing at the school today and met a doodle. Started out as a nice dog. Long story short, doodle ended up taking Lacey's wubba and chewing it up, wouldn't let Lacey play with it. Wouldn't come to mom or even listen to mom. Wouldn't relinquish the toy to mom. Woman was very apologetic, commented on what a nice well behaved dog I have and was amazed that she is a real dog even though she is so pretty. If she'd known poodles were such great dogs, she would've just gotten one of those :doh:


Oh my gosh, Me and Cooper had a very similar situation last fall at one of my sons ballgames with a goldendoodle...very hyper/ the most awkward movement and was a barker. Took Cooper's toy away from him ...Cooper thought he wanted to play take away and when he went to take it back he growled. Needless to say he too wouldn't listen to his owners. They were very impressed with Cooper and his behavior. Wanted to know how much I paid for him...ended up finding out that they paid 700.00 more dollars than me.....Needless to say they had their hands full.


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## Paris-London (Mar 2, 2010)

I've never met even a semi-sane doodle.

I think people don't like the traditional poodle haircuts.
I think they don't realize a poodle can look exactly like a doodle (only better... heck it's sad when a poodle makes a prettier "imitation doodle"
I think people are following the popular thing to do and they don't care to listen to reason.

I don't know how many times I have seen adds on CL for people looking for doodles. I email them and inform them on how crazy doodles are without being mean or pushing the envelope, I tell them how poodles can be made to look the same way, but don't shed or mat as easily.
I have never gotten a response back. I honestly make these emails out as nicely as I can so I don't offend..

I think they just don't care to face the facts. They don't WANT to listen to reason, they want their friends to know they have the "fad dog" that costs a bunch of money.
Yep...


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## Flake (Oct 18, 2009)

My poodle 'doodle' before I got used to poodle trims 









No Poof! :scared:


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## apoodleaday (Feb 22, 2010)

Flake said:


> My poodle 'doodle' before I got used to poodle trims
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now there's a doodle we can live with............the new poodle doodle


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

never mind


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