# bad grooming day



## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

Talk about a humbling experience. I brought Angie in today for her first grooming since her time with me, telling the girl who had groomed my male mini for 14 years that she was so well behaved as I brushed her every night, and that she was mat-free.

I picked her up 4 hours later (that's the number of hours she spent there, but not by my choice) and was told she had been "bad." She had bit into the groomer's arm, fussed, moved around, and was difficult in general. She had too much "gunk" in her ears, though the vet had cleaned them out 2 weeks ago. She didn't want her paws or her face shaved...and on and on. The groomer did feel she was "trainable" (at 5 months, I've already taught Angie to sit, come on command, and lay down, plus she is crate trained and rarely barks), but overall, the grooming session was not a positive one. I know she is teething and mouthy, but I didn't expect anything like this.

This groom shop now has 4 grooomers and over the years they have become super busy and chaotic, with many dogs being crated while waiting to be groomed. Maybe this is environment and waiting time are going to be too much for Angie and I should find a new groomer. Or maybe I'm just being too sensitive. Suggestions? I feel like I just got scolded by my grade school teacher.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

minipoodlelover said:


> I picked her up 4 hours later (that's the number of hours she spent there, but not by my choice) and was told she had been "bad." She had bit into the groomer's arm, fussed, moved around, and was difficult in general. She didn't want her paws or her face shaved...and on and on.


LOL, hon. That sounds just like Tonka when he's gettin' the fine shaving done. And he gets groomed by the lady that bred him years ago. She's not a cussin' lady, but he gets a big time scolding too! lol

Maybe the groomers will kill me for this, but I can't think of a group of people who are more prepared to handle a situation like this than a good, experienced groomer. It's not like they've never seen difficult dogs before. She may have just been passing on information.

And yeah . . a perfectly stressful situation for a dog that's not used to it. In that kind of commotion I might try to bite somebody too! lol


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

Okay, you made me LOL and that takes some of the sting out of it


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

How many times has Angie been groomed in her lifetime? Grooming is something poodles must become accustomed to, and it's easier to get them used to it while they are still young. I would suggest taking her in for more frequent grooming sessions so she gets used to the routine. 

By the time my mini was 5 months old, he was groomed a lot. He got FFT and baths/blow-dry at the breeder at least three times before I got him, then I did weekly bathes/blow-dry and FFT every two weeks with all over grooms every four weeks (I groom him myself). In the early days he was not as cooperative, but over time got used to the routine and now he's very good from grooming, even though he doesn't love it.


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Her behavior sounds pretty normal for a first groom. : ) Remember, they may be angels for you at home, but in a brand new place with brand new people they can be very confused! I make a point to never tell anyone that their dog was "bad", unless we're joking around. For a serious report I like to explain that the pup was "uncomfortable", "scared", "confused", "unsure", "resistant", etc. because that's the case! A dog isn't "bad" because he doesn't like something being done to him and tries to escape or fight the process! Just my opinion. : ) 

Four hours in a busy shop doesn't seem like a terrible thing, if your dog isn't too upset by activity and time away from you. If your groomer seemed annoyed by Angie's behavior, rather than understanding, that could be cause to look elsewhere. But, if she was just giving you all the details so you can work with her then I think that's fine! I've known lots of groomers (and used to be one in my early days!) who don't want to be honest with owners and tell them what areas their dog needs practice in. It's better that she tell you all about it than let Angie continue to be stressed by the same things every groom!


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Be aware that sit down, crate trained, and not barking have absolutely nothing to do with grooming. It's not the groomers job to train your dog for grooming, the groomer only has your dog a couple hours out of 6-8 weeks, it is your job to get your dog used to grooming. I personally think 5 months is way too long to have waited for a first groom, sorry, but I'm on the groomers side in this argument!

You need to really start brushing her, and taking something noisy that vibrates (like a phone) against her face, feet, body, ect. And then when she's allowing you to do that, have friends do it, aka a less personal experience for her to get used to strangers handling her.

I wouldn't let your dogs behavior make you change groomers.. the groomer was only being honest with you in hopes that you would train your dog to be better prepared for the grooming experience. She could also use getting used to loud noises, busy places, just general socialization.

I got Vegas at 11 weeks, and was grooming him WEEKLY to get him used to the experience. He had been groomed _many _times be the time he was 5 months.

Also, being in a crate for whatever amount of time (she wouldn't have been in there for 4 hours) is typical and your dog isn't being harmed while doing this. You said she was crate trained right? Then what's the problem with being in a crate while at the groomers? Would you rather have her roaming the shop?


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

When I took my poodles to the groomer (for the first 6 mos of Alex's life) and again while Pippin was young, I always did a "straight through." That meant they went straight to the bath and then a specific groomer's table. I was able to watch through the glass too, which was nice. I now groom my poodles at home, and don't really know what goes on behind the curtains at a grooming salon.  As for age, mine went once they were cleared by the vet (I can't recall the exact age). 

Can you groom Angie yourself (or at least try doing FFT in between her regular grooming sessions)? This will get her used to clippers and the extra handling, and it's also a great bonding experience. When I first rescued Merlin, I couldn't groom his face. He would jerk, fret, and backpedal across the grooming table. Then someone suggested a cordless clipper, which are quieter and often smaller. It worked like a charm. Merlin, who was once a near impossible groom, is now the best of my three. He just sits there like a silver statue. 

So I agree that acclimatizing Angie to having something vibrate against her face and paws is a good idea. Even if you just run a clipper over her face while it's off, that will help her get used to the tools. You can also (carefully) maneuver shears around her head while gently holding her muzzle. She needs to learn what's expected of her and who better to teach her than you. 

What "gunk" did she find in her ears? Wax or hair or ?? I'm sure she'll do better next time and the time after so don't fret and above all, don't beat yourself up over this. My poodles all aspire to be as good as Vegas.


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

Thanks for all the advice. Let me just clarify. I didn't wait 5 months to have her groomed. I've only had her 6 weeks, and she came to me fully groomed by the breeder who also is a groomer. I tried my best to prepare her by daily brushings, which she tolerated well, and her coat had no mats whatsoever. 

I'm getting closer to just biting the bullet and buying my own clippers, so I can keep her feet, face and tail areas neat in between full groomings. This should also help acclimate her to the grooming experience in general.

PammiPoodle - I always love your upbeat and optimistic opinions. I've heard dogs become like their owners ...may I say something about Lumi reminds me of you in a very positive way


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

fluffyspoos - Vegas is amazing and again, thanks for sharing your very helpful videos. I'm determined to turn Angie into a mini Vegas!

The groomer said Angie was mellow and calm while in the crate. It was only on the actual grooming table that the problems began. Supposedly she had been groomed frequently by the breeder but for whatever reasons, she just had a hard time today.

We have groomers in our area who come to your house in mobile grooming trucks and you have a set appointment time. There are also groomers who work from their homes and only take one dog at a time. We'll see.

Rowan, thanks....I am going to order those clippers you recommended a while back. I already have them in my Amazon "cart"


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Sorry my post sounded so hostile x_x, I didn't know you haven't had her since 8 weeks. Maybe you can ask your groomer if she would let you bring Angie in for a weekly, discounted bath, fluffy, F/F/T to get her used to it? I would also drop her off with some treats, and ask what is their slowest morning or time of the week. If I had a client wanting to do this, I would reward them with a discounted groom for their determination and good ownership.


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

Thank you Fluffyspoos - all good suggestions. I'm taking this experience as a sign that I should buy that Wahl Arco cordless clipper and do FFT regularly at home!


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

minipoodlelover said:


> Thank you Fluffyspoos - all good suggestions. I'm taking this experience as a sign that I should buy that Wahl Arco cordless clipper and do FFT regularly at home!


You'll love this clipper. It's so easy to use. And it's the quietest of the "full-sized" cordless clippers (the reviews were spot on).  You and *Chagall's Mom* will be Master FFT Home Groomers in no time. I can feel it.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Love my Wahl Arco!


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I had a guy bring in a yorkie pup, who, let's just say was the devil. Hated the whole grooming process. I didn't tell the owner she was "bad." I said "She has a very sassy attitude. She's really feisty with the grooming process and has the personality that may hate it. So bring her in more often!" - I tell all the owners with "bad" dogs to bring them in a lot. Five months is also still young and trainable for the grooming. Just make it as positive as possible! ( lots of treats!!!)


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I just tell the people with bad puppies they have a drama llama and give them 'homework' aka, holding the dogs chin hair and treating when the dog calms and accepts it, holding their feet, getting them used to vibrations and the blow dryer.


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

LOL...the groomer used some very colorful language to describe my pup, but I know she has a good heart. Yeah, I got past my hurt feelings AND with a couple of clicks, my new clippers are due to arrive next week.

And P.S. - I gave the groomer a very nice tip. Hopefully that makes up for some of the nipping she endured....


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## oceanrose (Sep 10, 2011)

A groomer can have a bad day too, and if she's impatient, and the puppy is unsure it can be a bad combo. Just work at home, and I might consider shopping for another groomer, 5 months is still a puppy, and it was a brand new experience for her too!


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## Anntig (Jun 9, 2010)

tokipoke said:


> I had a guy bring in a yorkie pup, who, let's just say was the devil. Hated the whole grooming process. I didn't tell the owner she was "bad." I said "She has a very sassy attitude. !!!)





Fluffyspoos said:


> I just tell the people with bad puppies they have a drama llama.



Isn't it interesting the different way we phrase the same thing I tend to say s/he was a lovely puppy but needs practise and then give them the homework..etc


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

Anntig said:


> Isn't it interesting the different way we phrase the same thing I tend to say s/he was a lovely puppy but needs practise and then give them the homework..etc


*Chagall's Mom* can give everyone some tips on softening the blow. She's a Master--a literal Yoda--when it comes to the "spoonful of sugar" approach!!!


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

minipoodlelover, were you offended that your groomer was telling you how your dog was acting up? Or would you rather have not known this?

There are lots of people here who always have "questions for the groomer" but now I have a question for pet clients - would you be offended if I suggested you do some training, or 'homework' with your dog at home so that the next grooming experience can be positive and productive?

I did that today and was told NOT to give advice on how "people should raise their dogs." I was merely trying to be helpful. The dog did not like being trimmed near the face, so I suggested that while at home, take some plastic kid scissors and make snipping noises close to the face. And as the dog grew accustomed to this and more calm, to give a treat. Was this wrong of me to do? Apparently giving too much advice on people's pets or commenting if their pet was "bad" will offend people.


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

That's a good question tokipoke and the answer is I was not at all offended by the behavioral information per se, but I was taken aback by the way I was told and the word choices. I walked in to collect my puppy and the groomer said she was "baaaaad" and used the f-word in her assessment to me. My face must have betrayed my dismay, because she backtracked a bit and did try to reassure me that most likely Angie could be trained to behave better during grooming, which of course is what I want, too.

As I said in my original post, Angie allows me to brush her every night with no problem whatsoever, so I really didn't expect a negative report. But okay, I accept Angie hated being groomed and acted up, including biting with sharp puppy teeth (no broken skin though). That she behaved this way is not okay with me and I NEED to know these things so I can work on my end to improve the situation. I am most definitely going to use my already-ordered clippers to shave her feet, face, and tail while treating her, so hopefully the next grooming session goes better.

This groomer is a good person who loves animals, and I had been going to her for many years with my previous mini, with no problems. So I have a positive history with her, and that factors in. If this had been my first time with this groomer, I probably wouldn't go back. 

PammiPoodle expressed my feelings perfectly. There is a way to relay to people negative information that's productive and helpful, as opposed to borderline offensive. Please DO give me advice so I can better prepare my puppy because I certainly don't want her to misbehave during grooming. Done the right way, I think a groomer's feedback is a win-win all around.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I suppose "giving homework" can be a touchy subject because it's almost like telling someone how they should raise their kids. I don't agree with saying harsh things or using profanity when speaking to clients! You are very forgiving! How would you have preferred her to tell you about your baby?

Luckily the client I suggested the training to said "that's a good idea" but who knows if she really thought "okay lady, whatever." I just want every dog to enjoy grooming like they should. Some people think aspects of grooming are unnatural to dogs, but we humans created these breeds - so they have unnatural coats and upkeep that need to be taken care of every 2 - 6 - 8 weeks! Accepting the grooming process SHOULD be part of every dog's training. It it's a drop coat breed, then they should be able to allow brushing, combing, trimming around the eyes, if it's a short coated breed, they should be totally okay with the bath. It's hard because there's two types of clients: the ones like the people on this forum who take a big responsibility in their pet's grooming and hygiene, and the others who love having the dog, but want the groomer to "take care of it." They don't want to know how the dog was, just cut whatever hair needs to be cut off. Many dogs act like angels at home, so they do not want to hear how "bad" their baby was. If you tell them this, they will think there's something wrong with the groomer, like she is incompetent.


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

I would preferred to have been told matter of factly in a non-judgmental way, and given suggestions on what I could do at home to help better prepare Angie for her next grooming. It sounds like that's what you do, tokipoke, and I commend you for that. As long as you're being polite, I would hope it's obvious to the owner that you have the dog's best interests at heart, and that's why you're taking the time to give feedback.

Yep, there sure are people who think because they pay for a service, they are free of any responsibility or obligation in the matter; i.e., here's my dog, now do your job and don't bother me with the details. If things don't go smoothly, it's your fault. I don't at all agree with this way of thinking. (Incidentally, there are parents like this, too, who think schools and teachers should do most of the work in raising their children, but that's for another forum!)

I like to think of grooming, or vet care, etc. as a team effort with the professionals doing their best, and with me supporting them to help achieve the results we both want.


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## grab (Jun 1, 2010)

I would not have been offended at being told of my dog's behavior (when I adopted her, Newt was not the greatest for grooming, so I was told when she nipped, etc) , using the F word was a bit unprofessional though, just from a business standpoint. If the rest of the groom was satisfactory, though, I'm not sure it would make me seek out another groomer.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

minipoodlelover said:


> That's a good question tokipoke and the answer is I was not at all offended by the behavioral information per se, but I was taken aback by *the way I was told and the word choices. I walked in to collect my puppy and the groomer said she was "baaaaad" and used the f-word* in her assessment to me. ..... *There is a way to relay to people negative information that's productive and helpful, as opposed to borderline offensive. Please DO give me advice so I can better prepare my puppy* because I certainly don't want her to misbehave during grooming. Done the right way, I think a groomer's feedback is a win-win all around.


This pretty much sums it up. There's no excuse for using profanity with a client, colleague or customer. It's unprofessional and unproductive, to say the least. There's a lot to be said for tact and courtesy when interacting with others. (I wish someone would give my neighbor's squatters a lesson in both.)


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I would have been offended by the swearing also. I had a similiar report with Swizzle the first time I went to the groomer. I comb him every day, I had given him several baths with no problem, and he had no matts and is a sweetie at home so I was expecting the groomer to tell me how good he was. Instead I was told he had the attitude of an alpha male and he also had nipped the groomer. I was shocked that he had actually bit her and she told me is was more common than not with a new puppy and it was not really a bite. She showed me a tiny red mark. I told her I considered any non-accidental contact that leaves a mark a bite and asked her how to fix this fast. She told me to work on touching his feet and getting him use to the sound of an electric razor. I told her my goal was to make him her favorite dog to groom. She told me "That will never happen." She told me she grooms her toy poodles once a week and there was no way he would ever be as good as hers. This was disappointing to me but I have seen them and this is probably true. Swizzle is much better for grooming now - she gives me a report each time and she has seen a big improvement in him. What she has said to me was unpalatable but true. My sweet puppy had been a brat for her but once I was aware of the problem I began to work on it immediately. If your groomer is a good I would probably continue to go to her. I must admit I had 2nd thoughts about returning to my groomer since the behavior was so unlike Swizzle I wondered if she had been too rough. I actually asked my vet and he told me Swizzle was the least aggressive dog he had seen and that she must have startled or frightened him. I then thought about the noise of the dryer, the clippers - ect. and realized it was not the groomers fault that Swizzle acted up. I can understand you being upset at the situation and the way it was expressed. I still have mixed feelings with my groomer. Sometimes Swizzle is not shaved a little unevenly on his face. I wonder if it is because he is jerking away or if she just is being careless. I will gather up my courage to do a touch up and then I will better be able to judge. Do you think you will stay with your groomer or move on?


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## PammiPoodle (Jul 16, 2011)

Gee, I'm so glad I don't need to take my dog to a groomer. It would be so hard to find one I trust! Not that I'm anti-groomer - I am one I know so many wonderful groomers! But, still, to have to choose someone and leave my dog in their care with all the new sounds and smells and sights and the whole grooming process. I've been to the vet with Lumi twice now, and the first time when they took her in the back for her shots, they also swabbed her ears to find out what all the gunk was. The second time we went a few weeks later the vet checked her ears out in the exam room with me and then commented that she's gotten WAY better about having her ears checked. I told her we work on grooming and handling a lot (of course, feeling like a proud mom!). But then she repeated a few times that she was SO much better, including the word "wow". Now, mind you, she still wasn't sitting like an angel for her ears this time! So how bad was she? Was she snapping at people? Was she pitching a fit? If she was really that difficult I wish they'd told me so I could have put extra time into that!! I think a lot of professionals think owners don't want to know that their pet was upset. And, yea, it's not fun to hear, but I definitely need to know! And that's why I tell my clients every stinking detail. : P


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## lilypoo (Jul 25, 2011)

I dunno, you shouldn't let Angie's behavior make you change groomers, but if you are uncomfortable with the situation of the busy shop, etc. I am sure there must be some good mobile groomers in your area. I feel more comfortable knowing Lily is right outside in my driveway! Our mobile groomer also does not mind teaching some manners. She only has one dog at a time and spends 2-3 hours per dog and I like that she has time to give individual attention to every dog.


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

CT Girl - thanks for sharing your story, it helped me a lot to hear of your experiences. My "sweet puppy" was a "brat," too...gulp....but I'm determined to transform her into a well-behaved lady who minds her manners.

Even before I brought Angie for her first groom, I was thinking about trying the mobile groomer that is popular in my area because the groomer I've been discussing has become so much busier over the years. Her prices are on the low side, and her shop has become more like a doggie assembly line, plus you never know who is actually going to groom your dog. I asked about possible clips for the future, like a Miami, and she said she wouldn't have the time.

But okay, none of these things were a deal breaker to me. Up until yesterday, I planned on returning to this groomer. As I said in another post, I have a positive history with her, and I don't doubt the information she gave me. I know it's not her fault my puppy acted up!

However, last night a good friend highly recommended the mobile groomer, who she knows personally. I called this groomer to explain what had happened, and I was impressed with her on every level. She is also more familiar with poodles than the other groomer, who mostly grooms other breeds. 

So the upshot is that I will probably switch groomers after all, but not really because of the incident I've been posting about. I'd say that incident was more the impetus that motivated me to do something I was considering all along.


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