# Bad behavior spoo at 14 weeks



## ivy1 (12 mo ago)

My Spoo boy at 14 weeks. Does not want to come inside after being let outside in a fenced in area. Runs away.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

My limited experience would lead me to ask how it is that you’re calling him in? Keep away is FUN FUN FUN and he isn’t doing it to challenge you or be in charge. He’s doing it because in that moment, I’d reckon, playing keep away is keeping you engaged with him and he’s an opportunistic little guy. As all dogs are. Opportunistic, I mean. If he figures coming in ends the fun, of course he is going to keep going. If he figures you are all pissed off and frustrated with him, why would he choose to listen and come inside? The goal, most especially at his age, is to be his world and to give him every reason to want to come to you. So it’s more than a treat, it’s “Ooooh what’s next when I come in, what are we going to do?!” Make him wonder and be irresistible, not angry or resentful or frustrated. If this is becoming a habit, I can appreciate that you’re likely already telepathically sending him vibes before he’s done his business...

So my advice would be to look at how you’re dealing with him not just when you want him to come in, but after as well. Fun times continue for a bit when he comes in? He won’t have a reason to play keep away trying to keep the game going himself.

This is me of course making a whole bunch of assumptions not having seen your interactions with him.

Another thing you could do is make pee or poops an on leash affair so you’re dealing with it less often and therefore it’s less of a habit being ingrained for him.

Our dogs really aren’t trying to take control. The alpha theory has been debunked and that’s typical humans projecting human psychology onto animals...

I just read the bit about burning off energy. Mental stimulation is super important in this regard. What kind of training are you doing with him? Small bits of training at this age sprinkled through the day works wonders at working the brain and therefore burning off energy.


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

It just sounds like Scout knows that the fun ends when he comes inside, and like any toddler is reacting accordingly. He isn't challenging you, he wants to play and has no context to understand why you want him to come inside, why he should come inside, or why he should want to come inside. It's up to you to give him a reason to want to come inside...and treats probably aren't going to do it. He's got energy to burn and if the fun currently stops at the door he's already forming bad associations with coming inside. You need to teach him the fun is wherever you are! That means a combination of treats, play, and fun mental stimulation through training. As long as you aren't doing forced extensive exercise there's nothing wrong with letting him tell you when he's physically done playing.

As already mentioned alpha theory has been debunked for ages, including by the exact same source it came from. The leaders of wolf packs are the parents, followed by whoever has the most experience and therefore confidence. Just like a baby isn't challenging you when they keep taking their socks off in the cold, your puppy isn't challenging you when it tries to play chase with you in the freezing cold.


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## ivy1 (12 mo ago)

Thank you.


BennieJets said:


> My limited experience would lead me to ask how it is that you’re calling him in? Keep away is FUN FUN FUN and he isn’t doing it to challenge you or be in charge. He’s doing it because in that moment, I’d reckon, playing keep away is keeping you engaged with him and he’s an opportunistic little guy. As all dogs are. Opportunistic, I mean. If he figures coming in ends the fun, of course he is going to keep going. If he figures you are all pissed off and frustrated with him, why would he choose to listen and come inside? The goal, most especially at his age, is to be his world and to give him every reason to want to come to you. So it’s more than a treat, it’s “Ooooh what’s next when I come in, what are we going to do?!” Make him wonder and be irresistible, not angry or resentful or frustrated. If this is becoming a habit, I can appreciate that you’re likely already telepathically sending him vibes before he’s done his business...
> 
> So my advice would be to look at how you’re dealing with him not just when you want him to come in, but after as well. Fun times continue for a bit when he comes in? He won’t have a reason to play keep away trying to keep the game going himself.
> 
> ...


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Just wanted to say I can relate! Maizie wants to stay out and have fun every day and she is nearly 7 years old. In fact, I just bought a new hook at target today, so I can put the leash by the door and take her out on the leash instead of let her be a girl gone wild whenever she wants! Nothing else worked, and I invested hours in training her.


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## Miki (Dec 25, 2021)

My biggest mistake with Tyler was not limiting his outside pee/poop time with a leash. I was more concerned about house training than recall training. The result was a crazy mini poo who loves running around the back yard, leaping through the snow, and willing to stay out far too long in sub-zero weather. 

I've cycled through treats, treat bag shaking, and going to pick him up but the real issue is not just a recall. He was collar and leash reactive so we had to fix that first, which we have. Yay! But we have a lot of work to do to correct that initial mistake. It needs to be done before spring or I am in for a giant mud fest.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

If it helps, I would LOVE if my dog would go burn off some energy by herself in the backyard! Or even if she would just go pee by herself! A handful of times recently, she has gone potty by herself without me, and she always looks perturbed when she comes back in. If he’s already not nipping feet and legs, then I’d say you’re ahead of the game. Take him out of a leash when you want it to be potty-only times.


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## Misteline (Mar 10, 2019)

Evelyn also does not want to come back in from the cold. Thankfully he hates being outside by himself so all I have to do at this point is go back inside and he comes running. When he was a puppy all pottying happened on leash. When he had off leash time and didn't want play time to stop my trick was to take off running to get him to chase me, then fall over, and when he "caught up" grab him and put him back on leash.

Ranna usually wants to go in as soon as he's done pottying because he's extremely food motivated and knows the routine is: outside -> potty -> treat -> play -> inside -> mealtime.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

Ivy1777 said:


> Thanks. I have been a bit negative when I want him to come in after so many tries. D
> 
> Z
> Didn't think about him just wanting to have fun. I am going to stop trying to catch him, and will turn away from him. We play games indoors. And play catch or tug o war with him when he comes inside, with his new toy. He does not sleep enough for a puppy. He is a light sleeper and does not nap much. He is very high energy. Over tired. We are working on the down command as he still jumps up. And working on him not pawing us. His nails are so sharp. We are going to ask the groomer to file his nails down some. He is very food motivated. He cries after 5 hours, if not fed. The breeder's children named him fatso.


Plenty of pups that age eat several meals a day. Every one is different- but I wouldn’t write off every five hours as excessive. If he’s overtired then I’d be curious about where he’s placed to nap— at that age my girl had to be crated and the crate covered with noise in the room reduced for her to sleep. They’re really like babies in so many ways, and some babies need the extra support to be able to rest before they can learn to relax by themselves. I love mat training/relaxation protocol. You can take it slow at this age, keep expectations low and be light and fun when you can, but it goes such a long way having a dog that knows how to relax when you need them to.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

A puppy of that age is too young to be offered choices on things like recalls. I know it is cold and none of us wants to be out in the cold, but I suggest you take potty breaks on leash and keep them all business as soon as the potty stuff is done go inside and play something fun that also teaches useful things. Give a few rewards then into the crate for a nap. While sleeping the little one will reinforce the nervous system connections for desired behaviors. Remember the more times a pup gets to rehearse naughty behaviors the stronger those naughty behaviors become. After that you have to help them unlearn the bad behaviors before you can install the desirable behaviors.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

Starla said:


> If it helps, I would LOVE if my dog would go burn off some energy by herself in the backyard! Or even if she would just go pee by herself! A handful of times recently, she has gone potty by herself without me, and she always looks perturbed when she comes back in. If he’s already not nipping feet and legs, then I’d say you’re ahead of the game. Take him out of a leash when you want it to be potty-only times.


Mine is the same 😋 I can’t let her lose (no fence) so all breaks are on leash. Play time is on a long line with me present. It’s gone a long way in our bond for sure, but it will be nice to be able to let her out for a quick romp when we have a fence one day. She doesn’t know how to play much by herself, that is for sure. In the meantime I’m glad to have put the time into the bond...


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

Oona is rarely loose in our yard and is never alone out there bc she will bark at the neighbors (our yard fence is high traffic and she needs help to stay chill about people or dogs walking by). I don’t want her to learn that she has a choice so she’s mostly on a leash or with a leash dragging unless I’m working on training specifically. She really likes to play zoom/chase me in the yard, so we turned it into a game where she has to come to me in order for the game to restart. She has to do a nose touch, sometimes I’ll ask for another behavior like sit or down, and then she can zoom again and I pretend to chase her. Usually it involves a stick she will hold while zooming. Another thing we do when we are out there is to practice recall from different spots in the yard, but where she gets released to play/roam more after, so being asked to come does not always predict coming inside. And the advice about doing something fun when you come in is good too.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

I just want to reiterate the importance of rest time. You'll have a calmer dog if you enforce regular, scheduled naps. Mia also needed a quiet, covered crate when young, and even at 11.5 years old there are still times when I retreat with her to a quiet room where I know she'll nap.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I’m going to reiterate taking your puppy outside to potty on a leash till your dog is we’ll trained which takes weeks. The effort you put into training now will reward you with a dog that’s easy to live with for the rest of their life.

On leash means you can train “potty on command”. You won’t make the mistake of thinking your dog peed outside then bring them inside only to have a pee accident. You can monitor if your dog picks up and eats anything in appropriate such as animal poop or twigs.

It also means you have control so your dog can’t play the “come chase me” game. You can use a short leash for potty training and a long line to train a recall outside and give your dog some space to romp.

I train recall every day and it always ends with a treat then a release to go back and play. I never yell or get angry. I only call once. My older minipoo has a poor recall and I’m determined my puppy will have a great one. I’ve also manage to improve my older minipoo recall through this daily training. I didn’t get my older minipoo until she was almost a year old so she came with no recall training. So there’s hope for Scout. Have Scout on a long line and when you call “Scout come” and if Scout doesn’t come, give a little tug on the leash to encourage your dog to come for a treat. Then release Scout to have fun. Don’t make “come“ something that ends fun.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

At that age all my pups were on four meals a day - 5 hours is a long time, no wonder he is hungry. With Freddy I worked at making coming back inside at least as much fun as staying out - when he was very young he only went out to pee etc on lead, running free only came after he demonstrated a reliable recall. It did help that the older dogs getting treats for coming in triggered FOMO, and brought him at a run! I still put a lead on him if I am in a hurry, just in case he decides to play keep away instead of getting in the car.

Naps have been a real sanity saver here - a stuffed KONG or chew, a comfy bed in his pen in a quiet corner not far from the rest of us, and over an hour of peace. But Fred is a very easy puppy and I cannot take much credit - I would just say to remember that Scout is still a baby, and at that age most things are down to management rather than training.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Yes at 14 weeks he is still very much a baby but since you already have been able to curb his puppy biting..you can see just how smart he is! I never take puppies out to potty without a leash on them, doesn't matter the weather, I take them to their spot they go and we come inside. As they get older they know when its playtime outdoors and when its potty time. Leash=potty time in their mine , off leash = play. As they age and learn I can let them off leash in the yard to potty. I have a 9month old now that I got as a 5 month old, he actually at that age was no different than a 8 weeks old puppy as he was a rescue that lived with other litter mates in a barn without socialization. I am quite smitten with him as he learned pretty quick. He now will potty on command and I have just been able to let him off leash to potty too. He know in the am , he runs to the door, I say ok lets go potty he runs onto our back patio and I tell him to go potty and he goes off int he grass and pees, then he looks t me, lol I say well go do your poopoo too and he runs around to the side of the house and goes. I quietly walk over peek clean it up then he runs to the house and gets fed. Later int he day he goes out same. When I let the other dog out with him I say go play and they do until he has had enough and runs to the door or under the table and waits to come in.


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## ivy1 (12 mo ago)

Thank you all.


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## ivy1 (12 mo ago)

He has now given up this behavior since we quit chasing after him. He gets a treat when he potties.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Never give in to crying as regards crate training. If you don't crate train from day one then you have to do it by baby steps with many short visits to crate for something fun and then out without closing door, then leave him to entertain himself with door closed bu not locked. Let him out when he finishes the treat. Leave him with a longer thing to use for self soothing and lock the door for a couple of minutes and so on.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

I would add a 9pm or so snack of his kibble. As frantic as he sounds he may well need more food overall than he is getting. A supper before bed will reduce the very long time between 6pm and 8:30am. That's way too long for a baby puppy, imho. Otherwise, he sounds like he's learning well.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Ivy1777 said:


> When we let Scout outside inside a small fenced in area. He refuses to come back inside even in 20 degree weather. We have removed his sweater. He is challenging us. He wants to be the one in charge. He gets a small treat after a pee or a poo. But now even a treat will not convince him to come back inside. He runs fast and plays keep away. It is a game he is enjoying our expense. I do not want to loose control over him at this age, as I will pay for it later. He weighs in at 20 pounds. I can still pick him up. He is a tough guy for sure, with a tender heart. Any ideas I can use to show him who is in charge and change this behavior? I can trick him with a toy. But this will not last long. He is too young for long walks to burn off the energy. We are waiting for the bones in his arms and paws to grow and line up, so we do not cause damage. Thanks.


If it is in a small fenced ares why not just let him run outside until he wants to come in and then treat him as he comes in? I bet he will start coming in sooner. I do not understand why owners think it is a challenge, or a control issue.


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## TuttoBene (Apr 23, 2021)

Hang in there. It’s all worth it. You will learn. He will learn. He’s running away..don’t chase; run/trot in the opposite direction and into the house. Our poodle’s motto is “Play Above All”. And I think that speaks for a lot of poodles.

We called our new and first Standard poodle puppy names like “wild child” and “little monster”. However with positive, fun, calm behavior on OUR part he earned his CGC at 10 months. He’s 13 months now, and there is back sliding during adolescence which we deal with as it comes up. He likes to be the class clown (yeah be prepared for antics). Yet, for a moment we got a glimpse, between 10-12 months, of what an awesome breed the standard poodle is. Active, rugged, intelligent and affectionate.


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## ivy1 (12 mo ago)

So it's a month and a half later. A new issue. Opposite. He does not want to be outside by himself. He stays by the door and cries to come in instead of using the bathroom. He began a poo in the yard but finished up on the porch when I came outside to check on him. We never leave him out very long by himself.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

In response to the new issue of not wanting to be outside by himself. You may need to take him out to the desired potty spot on leash and practice giving him his potty command. The longer he continues to "finish up" on the porch, the more likely it will become an ingrained behavior. If you are still rewarding him with a treat for coming back in after pottying, start giving him his treat right after he potties and is still in the potty area(not on the porch). Good luck as you and your pup continue to progress!


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

I don’t leave my pup out alone. When it’s time to play, we go out to play together. When it’s time to potty, I leash her up, take her out, give her the command/cue, she goes, we come in. She knows what’s expected with this routine. I suppose in many ways I treat her as if she’s a toddler because I find this most helpful.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

BennieJets said:


> I don’t leave my pup out alone. When it’s time to play, we go out to play together. When it’s time to potty, I leash her up, take her out, give her the command/cue, she goes, we come in. She knows what’s expected with this routine. I suppose in many ways I treat her as if she’s a toddler because I find this most helpful.


Yep. This is our routine with Peggy, too. A dog left alone in the backyard is likely to engage in unwanted behaviours, like digging or barking. The only time Peggy’s out alone is if she’s sunbathing.


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