# Noelle's Adventures in Competitive Obedience



## Click-N-Treat

Well, today Noelle and I talked it over and we decided to start training toward a CD, so we decided to go to Novice class. Tonight we went to the fourth AKC club we've tried. The first club was way too intense. The vibe in the whole place felt like, if my dog isn't OTCH by the time he turns three, I'll commit suicide. I felt stressed out in there. The dogs were stressed. The people were hyper-focused. No one was enjoying anything. 

Bleh. No. 

Our second club was disorganized. I never really felt like the instructor had a clear idea what we were training from week to week. I'd work really hard on down/stays at home, and then the following two weeks we would work on heeling in class. Okay, let's work on heel at home then. Next week, long sit. 
Facepalm. Structure, I need some structure. I need somewhere else to train.

We traveled 45 minutes each way to an obedience club in the next county to get Noelle's CGC. That was a long stressful drive in the dark. Fine to do for the CGC or an obedience trial, but not weekly. 

The fourth obedience club is two towns west. They meet in the 4H building on the county fair grounds. They have drop in novice/open/utility/rally classes. Novice class is 45 minutes. It was six bucks a class. Whaaat? Super stressola cola club was $20 a night. Six bucks. OK, but how can it be any good if it's so cheap. Let's find out.

Noelle had a rough time in the ring at first with new place, new, dogs, new floor, new ring for the first 10 minutes of class. Everyone else's dogs were heeling and Noelle was focused on everything but me. Then she settled in and I got full eye contact heeling. It was beautiful! Heeling with speed changes. Heels with three steps sit, two steps, sit, heeling with about turns. Noelle got very happy once she figured out we were heeling. I was happy, too. We got praised for our eye contact for and our connection with one another. Made me happy all over again. 

We did figure eights around two people and their sitting dogs. Oh boy. Noelle has never done this. She didn't want to sit and stay at my side with an interesting dog walking by. She was much too wiggly as the other dogs passed. Oh no. What kind of chaos is she going to bring to the party when it's her turn to walk figure eights? 

How about, peppy heeling with focused snappy eye contact? The trainer was shocked. The two other people were shocked. You've never done that before? Noelle just snapped in and enjoyed heeling with me around the people and dogs. I think it's because we work around stuff all the time. Leave it is a default behavior, and so is zigzagging. We do that stuff around cherry pies, piles of muffins, loaves of french bread, with people, strollers, and shopping carts in the way. All we're gonna do is go around two people and two dogs? A figure eight was easy for her. 

If that was too easy, we were in for it next. Stand for exam. Oh boy, we have a lot of work to do with this. I learned to hold Noelle behind her legs and feed her a treat while the instructor touched her. It was awkward. We suck at this right now. We'll work on it, and work on it, and work on it, and maybe when she is 942 years old, she'll have it.

Long sit. Noelle lasted 2 minutes out of three minutes before she wandered over to see what I was doing. I'm lonely, hi Mom. No, stay. That was a bit of a minor issue, ditto with down/stay. But, it was her first night. Normally she's very good at long stays. So, we'll get there. Other dogs were having problems, too. 

First recall off leash, Noelle ran to me, bounced off my knee and sat. Then she did a leaping finish and landed on her butt with a cheeky poodle smile. Second time she anticipated the recall by a split second, but once again stopped and sat, then finished with another leaping spin and sit.

The trainer, who was laughing at Noelle's poodle spring loaded finish, said, "See you next week."

You'd better believe you'll see us next week. Look, this class was a blast. It was hard work getting Noelle's attention especially at first. It was hard work keeping her attention during the beginning, going around the ring heeling with all the other dogs. She gets bored with down/stays and long sit/stays. And gets far too excited with the stand for exam.

But, once she's switched into the on position, Noelle is a pure joy to behold. We loved this class. Both of us had a ball. Noelle wasn't nervous, and was just relaxed and happy, happy, happy the entire class. 

The trainers at our new club make everything so clear. I understood what was working and what wasn't. It's the perfect balance of, what we're doing here is important focused work, but it's not a pressure cooker. It's the kind of place where Noelle can shine. I'm looking forward to next week. 

Go Noelle, Go!


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## Charmed

Oh, I am so glad that you found a class that works for you. Sounds like my kind of class, too. There is a lot to be said for a class that keeps a dog happy while it's working. You know, the stand will come with confidence. Some dogs respond well to a slight touch as a reminder on their flank, while many of the herding breeds are better of with a hands off approach. I am sure that you and Noelle will have it conquered in no time. Kudos to you for continuing to search until you found the perfect fit.


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## MollyMuiMa

I am thrilled that you and Noelle have finally found a place where you can really accomplish your goals and do it with a smile! Wishing you continued fun & Good Luck!:cheers2:


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## Asta's Mom

This is super news - so glad you found a place where you and Noelle were comfortable and could work together. Sounds like she did really well, especially with that all important eye contact. High five!


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## fjm

That sounds like fun - and the underlying advice not to take the nearest class, or to give up completely if the nearest is not right for you, is excellent. I am so glad that you have found the perfect class - training a service dog must get rather lonely at times, and it will be good for both of you to be in a group of people who really understand and appreciate how hard you and Noelle work at it, and the amazing results.


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## Muggles

That sounds like a fabulous class, glad you were finally able to find a good one!


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## lily cd re

This club sounds a lot like mine. Our dues are $35 a year and you can come for as many drop in classes as you like at any time on our schedule for $12 a class. If you take two classes on the same day it is $18 and three would be $24.

My novice classes are basically the same as the one you took, but run for 30 minutes (although if I have no beginners we often run over). I also do figure 8s the way your class did them. It is great for all of the dogs involved since the dogs with handlers who are the posts have a great chance to practice focused attention. Noelle will figure it out as she gets more familiar with the place and the routine of the class and will be rocking it before you know it.

I am thrilled for you and know you will make great progress and get that CD. You might ask the instructor to start to incorporate the anticipated changes in the novice stays. There will be an individual sit stay where you retrieve your leash and return to your dog as happens in rally excellent. The groups stays will be on leash with handlers holding a 6 foot leash and facing their dogs out at the end of the leash. Since the recommendation is that there will be a set up that will have more dogs per group we anticipate that will mean dogs in the middle of the ring in two rows with their backs to each other. I am starting to practice this set up for Javelin since I am certain having a dog sitting behind him will be a challenge.

For dogs that are wiggly for the stand for exam I have the teams start with a sit for exam. I also have the handler go just in front of the dog and stand toe to toe. Keep Noelle's attention focused on you and have the instructor stand next to her without touching her. Once she can keep attention for this then have the instructor touch her on the head and withers. Once she is good on that have her stand and stay still without being touched and keeping focus. Then you can have the instructor touch her. Once you are at this point you can start to move away until you are out at the end of the leash and take the exam. Then you can take the leash off.

Also if you have any thoughts on going beyond the CD do start teaching her to take and hold the dumbbell and to work away from you. Look at "Javelin's Road to Ring Ready" and the "Intermediate Obedience Workshop" threads for specifics on how to do these things. Let me know if you want the links to find those threads.

You and Noelle already have a great connection as a working team and I know you don't have to prove that with titles, but I find obedience to be a beautiful dance with your canine partner and I am sure you will enjoy it as such too.


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## chinchillafuzzy

Yay Noelle and Click-n-Treat!! You guys are such an inspiration! Can't wait to follow the journey to Noelle's CD!


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## Click-N-Treat

Thank you for your vote of confidence, Lily. It means a lot coming from you. I've never tried competing in obedience. This is going to be an adventure.

Stand for exam, to Noelle means, "get super excited because someone is going to pet me, roll over on my back for a belly rub, omg, I think I love you." We barely passed the CGC exam for the same reason. Picture a kid with ADHD who drank three shots of espresso, gobbled a wad of cotton candy, jumping on a trampoline, and you're about halfway there on Noelle's level of excitement. She just goes bananas when someone is going to pet her.

We did a sit for exam first in class and then I tried holding Noelle in a stand. We will inch our way forward, but this is going to take a long time. Noelle will be two on Halloween. Funny, a Christmas name for a Halloween dog, but I got her at Christmas time. Anyhow, Noelle loves the ring and I'm trying to make sure I don't add any stress or anxiety. Maturity will help stand for exam along with working on a standing stay.

Right now, my biggest issue is getting her attention quickly when class starts. We play focus and attention games outside of the ring, but she still needs a long warm up inside the ring before she's ready to focus. All the other dogs and handlers are spot on and Noelle is still sniffing the floor, poking her head through gates, ooh, what's that in the corner, noodling around, unable to pay any attention to me until she's ready.

Obviously we can't have a 10 minute warm up session in the ring during a trial. I want to break her of the noodling around the ring habit. I want Noelle to know the second we pass through the ring gate, she needs to pay attention to me and noodling around is forbidden.

How would you suggest I approach that? To me it seems like crossing ring threshold needs to be a trick in and of itself. You enter this space with me and work with me in this space. I know what I want to see from Noelle, but the how eludes me.


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## reraven123

We used to train entering the ring and setting up as a separate exercise for just that reason. You may think of an exercise as starting when you give the dog a command to do something, but if your dog thinks of it that way then there is no reason to be calm and attentive until the exercise actually begins (until you give the first command). If you want the calm attentive behavior before the exercise begins then you have to train that. For your dog the exercise should start before you enter the ring and end after you give a release. That way you can warm up outside the ring and the first exercise will begin before you even enter the ring. The second exercise should begin when you start to move towards the the next position, not after you get there and are fighting to get her attention back again.


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## lily cd re

As reraven said you can treat the ring entrance like an exercise in and of itself. I do practice ring entrances with both Javelin and still with Lily. We set up outside the gate, get focus and then I say "let's work" and we go into the ring keeping our connection until we have crossed the threshold and I stop to remove (or pretend to remove) the leash. In addition to practicing ring entrances AND EXITS, we also practice what my trainer/coach calls ring choreography, the work of getting from place to place and exercise to exercise while keeping focus but also building in some stress relieving tricks like touches and spins.

I haven't had a chance to do videos lately but I will try to get some on Friday to show you some of what we are talking about here. I'll let you know when I post new videos.


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## zooeysmom

I'm very excited for you, Click and Noelle! I'm doing Beginner Novice A with Maizie in a couple of weeks, but I don't have plans with her beyond that in the Obedience ring


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## Skylar

I'm so glad you found a wonderful training club. I too started with a cruel, over priced trainer so I kept looking and found several great places for training - I now go between 2 clubs and all my trainers keep it fun. I still complain that I'm driving an hour on mainly highways - but it's worth it when you have the right class.


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## Click-N-Treat

Next Monday I'll make sure I have Noelle's attention before we enter the ring and really pay attention to crossing the threshold as a trick to train. Thanks for your help and support. It really means a lot.


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## Click-N-Treat

We're back. Today I was running late, forgot I needed cash for class, went to the ATM, broke approximately 934 traffic laws, and pulled into the parking lot a minute late. Noelle and I ran through the parking lot. Class had started. Oh well. They were heeling around the ring.

Thinking about Noelle's ring entrance, I made her sit and watch me, then we joined the class. I had her focused attention within one or two laps around the ring, so that went much better. Heeling and about turns went well in the group. Figure eight went well. Stand for exam went better than last week. I still held her belly, but I think next week I'm going to try letting go. We need to work on a standing stay. Stand, stay, walk around the dog and return, just like a sit/stay or a down stay.

Speaking of the long sit, she got up once and wanted to say hi. The second goof was when she slid from a sit into a down. I came over and fixed it back into a sit. Long down she did five minutes without getting up, whoo hoo! A Parson Russell Terrier whined through both the long sit, and the long down. Noelle was puzzled by the sound. A German Shepherd Dog was talking, and I swear, he said, "Mama don't go."

I am supposed to work on more square sits by only rewarding the really good square ones. And on recall, getting Noelle to come all the way to me and not sitting too early. We have work to do and I'm looking forward to it.

Was it the most focused class we've ever had? No, we got rushed and I was more stressed on the way in. Noelle was flirty and wanted to make some new doggie friends. Was I glad we went? Of course! Was it fun? Absolutely! Will we be back? Yep!


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## lily cd re

I am so happy to see that you had another great class even with the hectic arrival. When people come late to my classes I encourage them to do as you did, take time to get organized and focused then jump in. For square sits with Javelin having a platform for him to sit on helped him to lose his sloppy puppyish sits. If you make it just a little wider than is needed for a square sit they will pick up the feet that are falling off since they realize they feel uneven. It doesn't have to be very high, just enough for them to feel if part of them is "falling off." I have a thick one I use at home and a more portable one I take with me to classes, lessons and matches. The portable one is made from two layers of kiddie play mats cut down the width and length I wanted. You can use mats like these and cut them with a utility knife. I used duct tape to hold the pieces together. I will get it from my vehicle in the morning and measure it and take a picture (maybe even with somebody sitting on it). In addition to the squaring up of the sits the platform also helps them to stay on the sit. You don't need it for the down for most dogs.


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## lily cd re

Here are sit platform pictures, without and with a sitting dog. My kitchen floor tiles are 12" by 12" so the platform for Javelin is two feet long and a bit less than one foot wide. For Noelle it would be smaller. You can use a folding contractor's ruler to figure out dimensions.

Here is the platform.









Here is a sloppy sit. He usually corrects these himself, but you can also tap the side of any foot that is hanging off gently to make them think about it.









Her is a better sit with all four on the platform. I don't care that he isn't centered, just that no legs are hanging off. Please forgive the appearance of his "lipstick."


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## Mfmst

It’s wonderful that you and Noelle have such an encouraging class. I think you are a heck of a trainer, and with tips from competitive pro’s like Lily CD, I’m certain Noelle will get the title. Have fun with it and continue to share the journey.


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## Click-N-Treat

Thanks everybody for cheering us on. A platform makes good sense. Sit this way, not that way. I will have to make something like that. Working on getting Noelle to come all the way to me is going to be interesting. She sits too far back. The trainer suggested putting the food lower. I am considering putting food on the end of a target stick and only rewarding her for very close sits. Noelle is shorter than a standard, so it's tough to reward her position without leaning down. 

In preparation for one day retrieving a dumbbell, I'm starting requiring Noelle to bring the tennis ball to my hand, sit, and finish at heel before I throw it again. She likes to drop it at my feet. Sorry, Noelle, that's not how we're going to play. She's picking up on the new rules very fast. 

Noelle is a fun dog to train. She's merry and joyful, and just delightfully fun to be with. She will work for food, toys, my laughter, and even my ridiculous singing. One of our focus games is If You're Happy and You Know It. I wasn't sure if Noelle actually recognized the song or not, so while she was resting at my feet, I started singing. BOING! Noelle sprang up. That's our happy fun treat game song, let's play! She actually knows If You're Happy And You Know it. How fun is that?

If you're happy and you know it you will sit
If you're happy and you know it you will sit
If you're happy and you know it and you really want to show it
If you're happy and you know it you will sit

I use all the different commands in my song. Sit, stand, down, heel, etc. Silly, but effective. It sets us up to have a fun time together, because training is fun. And I want to bring a happy dog with me on every adventure we have. Noelle is a happy dog and I don't want competing to stress her out. So by playing if you're happy and you know it before we enter the ring, I remember dog training is supposed to be fun. Fun for the dog first, and fun for me second.

Noelle likes it when I sing to her. When we groom, I sing to her as a reward for staying still. There's a musical freestyle class near us. Since she likes music so much, I think I might have to teach this dog to dance some day. But, right now, we're focusing on obedience and it's fun. Yay!


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## lily cd re

You could try using little bits of american cheese and seeing if it will stick to your knee as a target for fronts. I've seen people do that with good outcomes. Of course it means you need a pair of going to class pants that you won't care too much about the appearance of. If you do make a platform you will find many uses for it.


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## Click-N-Treat

We've been practicing. Noelle can do the three minute sit and five minute down in my house, so hopefully that will go better in class. Her finish is better and she gets the idea of, "Get in there," and scooting over. We worked on a kick back stand. That was fun. I found a video on YouTube of a woman working with a smaller dog. She gave some great ideas on how to help Noelle get the idea of standing without walking forward. 






I will have to figure out some kind of a small platform for sits. But, we're still having fun together.


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## Click-N-Treat

Back from another class. Long sit and long down she nailed those this week, even with someone walking around the ring. She did that perfectly. Recalls went well. Stand for exam is improving. 

Noelle gave good eye contact and focus for heeling, and then lost her focus, and I got it back, and lost it, and... Figure eight was the worst this week because I couldn't keep her attention. She was either interested in the other dogs or bouncing to get the cookie in my hand. 

What I see when we are heeling around the ring in class is this. Teacher says: Forward.
Noelle looks at me, I look at her, and we start off heeling together, Noelle's eyes are locked on and her head is up and we are in sync. We are rocking this thing. 

Five steps, ten steps, twelve steps, and Noelle looks around, starts to pull ahead of me, or sniff the floor, or wants to flirt with the dog ahead of her.

Teacher says, About turn

Crap, I don't know where Noelle's brain is and we're supposed to do an about turn, and Noelle is sniffing the floor, and the other students are heading toward us, darn it, we're in the way, get it together! Cajole Noelle into a sloppy about turn, but at least we are walking together. Okay, her head is up and we're back heeling again. 

Repeat this for several minutes. Noelle is either heeling with magnificent focus, or she's off on her own agenda. No middle ground with Noelle. She gives me 100% or zero. So my questions for this week's practice are...

1. How do I help Noelle lengthen her attention span? It seems like this is the number one issue for her. She can only pay attention for so long before her focus breaks down. This is especially true in the beginning of class when we are heeling around the ring in a group.

2. Practicing figure eights in the house. Ideas for poles?

Noelle is a delightful dog with an eager desire to please. When Noelle knows what I want, she gives it with all her heart and spirit. The problem is I have no idea what I am doing with this competition style training. It's very different than service dog work. We have a long way to go, but we're on our way. The trainer told me today she thinks I should work toward competing. Made me happy.


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## lily cd re

Attentive heeling seems like it should be the easiest thing to teach, but it is the hardest and at the same time the most important skill an obedience ring dog can develop. Here is what you need to do. I am guessing the teams do the heeling going around the edge of the ring, if not you will have to look for a little variation on where to go. If you think Noelle can reliably do five steps of attentive heeling then ask for four and tell her yes and give a treat while she has her head up at heel. Since you won't want to be in the way of other teams step out of the line that is going around towards the middle of the ring. Only praise and reward for good heads up heel. Little bit by little bit you will be able to take 6, 10 and 20 steps. Any time she looks away give your correction word (uh oh, oops, whatever) and stop. Do some static attention work before you move again. There isn't much way to teach nice heeling other than by doing it and helping the dog to understand that looking away ends the game. As she gets better you can also move your cookie up higher along the side of your body and since she is a bigger mini you should eventually be able to hold a long strip of string cheese or something similar (shredded chicken of sliced strips of hot dog) hanging out of the corner of the left side of your mouth. As you work to fade the food target you can put it inside your mouth and either spit bits to her or hand them to her from your mouth letting her see it is coming from your face as she maintains eye contact to your face. I often have my novice folks heel across the ring in lines with lots of releases when getting to the gate to help develop drive and a sense of heeling as fun. After a couple of straight across the ring normals with gate parties then I add in pace changes, about turns and halts.

If you get to the facility with time before class starts then warm up her attention with the five cookie exercise I have described in Javelin's training thread. Both Lily and Javelin know it well and once the dog understands that game you can increase the duration of attention by increasing the intervals between the cookies. You can add the ability to ignore distractions by having a person come in and stand near the dog. Explain to the person that you are going to use their moving away as the reward for maintaining attention. Have them stand quietly without moving or talking until Noelle has maintained her focus for three seconds. Tell her yes and give a treat while she still is giving the attention. Then add duration to the person's presence and Noelle's attention. Eventually you can have the person move their hands over her head. She can give an eye flick to that, but then has to keep attention before the person stops moving their hands then backs away. If you don't get there early enough to warm up her attention before class starts stay outside the ring for a couple of minutes to warm her up before you jump into the heel pattern.

I have traffic cones (medium size ones from Lowes) that I use for practicing figure eights and some of the rally signs at home, but you could use two chairs as well. Remember that in a trial the figure eight posts will always be people without dogs, so practice with people sometimes too. A dog that can maintain attention for a figure eight with a person they know as a post is telling you they really understand the exercise. Lily and Javelin routinely do figure eights with my mom and good friends who they know well. They never look at any of those people or their dogs, but it took lots of practice to get there.


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## Click-N-Treat

I've seen dogs heeling where they are glued to their handler's leg. If the handler moves in any direction, the dog moves with them like they are magnetized. I want Noelle to heel like that. She can, and does, in 15 or 20 step bursts, but the consistency is not there. I want it though, so we will work on it.

We did get massive praise from the trainer during our slow heel. Noelle was locked on me like a laser beam and we crept along super slow with the leash completely slack. The trainer ran over to us and said, WOW. So, that was cool. Noelle knows heads up heeling and can do it, and enjoys it, especially the speed changes, but she loses focus and I need to know how to get it back quickly. 

It was only our third novice class. I really can't be too hard on myself, considering Noelle flunked three CGC classes because she couldn't pay attention. And we've worked on service dog manners for the past year. Obedience trial training is so much more precise than service dog work, but the duration of a trial event is way shorter than, say, going to the mall. Noelle can learn to do this, assuming that I can learn to do this. I am far more concerned with handler error and skills than I am with Noelle. If I know what I am doing, Noelle follows my lead. I need to build handler skills and those will come with practice.

The club opens on Mondays at two pm for practice. I think I'll go in early Monday afternoons. My kid works about 10 minutes from the club, and my kid is visually impaired, so she doesn't drive. My daughter often works until 4 on Monday. If I took Noelle to the club for some training, and then went to pick my kid up at work, went home, ate dinner, and returned to class, that would work well. 

Oh, and when you do a figure eight, do you start out moving with your dog doing a left turn, or a right turn? Is there an insider secret handshake I should know?

Thanks for coming with me on this journey, Lily. I could not do this without your guidance.


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## lily cd re

Most of the mistakes dogs make are because the handler has made a mistake, either giving a sloppy cue or thinking the dog understands the exercise when they don't really get it. Noelle has a good vision of what heeling is, but if she isn't consistent then she doesn't totally understand it yet. It took a year of doing those baby steps to get Javelin to be a great straight line, no pace changes or formal halts heeler. By having invested that time now teaching him pace changes, halt sits and turns is going well and with another 6 months I think he will be one of those no points off types of dogs on heeling. Later (have to go to work soon) I will give you some pointers about your handling cues.

In the meantime as to the figure 8 I virtually always start to the left (dog on the inside) with both Lily and Javelin but if I think their work on it is goofy I will throw them the surprise of going to the right. I know great handlers who use both ways with their dogs so it really doesn't matter which you do. I like having the dog on the inside first so that they have to keep it under control. You can also do things like odd pace changes go super slow on the dog outside leg where normally they need to hurry up, fast with dog on the inside where normally they go slowly, about turns in the middle, go around one post two or three times. We call that crazy eights at my club. If someone tells me they want to do crazy eights I call a regular pattern while they do what they want and the dog has to pay attention to their handler while ignoring me as the "judge."


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## MollyMuiMa

A little humor for working so hard.................


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## lily cd re

Molly those cartoons are very funny and it is very appropriate to remind that obedience should not be too too serious and gloomy.

Here are some thoughts on handler errors in heeling. Once the dog is starting to know where heel is, stop looking for them to be there. If you look towards your left shoulder or behind it to see where the dog is the dog will be lagging. Keep your shoulders square over your hips. If you lean your shoulders you will cause forging (left shoulder forward of your hips) or lagging (left shoulder behind your hips). Keep your pace consistent on your normal, don't adjust to the dog. For pace changes go as slow or as fast as is comfortable for you. Make the pace changes clear to see for the judge, don't worry if the dog doesn't change its gait as long as it stays at heel. If your fast isn't super fast and your dog is big the dog may not really change its pace to stay with you. The judge watches you and that the dog stays at heel, they don't judge the dog's gait. Give body language cues for pace changes, turns and halts. It would be hard to explain these now. I will try to get video for you on this.


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## Click-N-Treat

Molly, those gave me the giggles. And I needed those. 

Okay, I will think about those body language cues. I think another thing I need to work on is rewarding Noelle when she's doing it right, and telling her "No, watch me," when she looks away. Because I did that yesterday and she was able to stay with me much better. 

I would love to see footwork videos and body language videos, because I need to practice moving. Like I said, this is all very new to me. We're on our way, though and that makes me happy.


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## Skylar

I think all of us neophytes go through months of doing all the wrong body positions, especially when we have a smaller dog - bending over sideways to get our treat dispensing hand near their nose, turning our head back to look at the dog etc. Every class the trainer tells us not to look at our dogs - and the figure eight always makes people turn their head back and the trainer warning us not to as it causes dogs to lag.

That body language can be so subtle and yet so critical. I tell people our training is like competition ball room dancing - the communication is so critical and the movements can be so small. It took me a long time when signalling Babykins to come sit in heel position, I used to swing my arm out naturally when I called her to heel - I've finally realized that I have to keep it touching my leg so she comes in very close.

One of my trainers says that dogs are naturally right or left handed - the other trainers don't agree - so I don't know who is right - but this trainer felt that each dog had a preference of which side is better for them to start the figure eight. We always start to the right - where she is on my outside. But like Catherine we do all kinds of things with figure 8 and serpentine shapes to break up the monotony and patterning of the figure 8 so the dog learns to heel - and not just perform a figure 8.

I find heeling is the most difficult and we struggle with it too. Sometimes everything is perfect and it just feels so good and then it's just a mess. And while I love watching dogs that can twist their head up and look at their handler with adoration - it's a lot easier for taller dogs - heeling is about the dog following your movements and keeping in heel position - they don't have to have their head cranked up - they could be focused on your leg, or your hand resting on your stomach etc. And they are watching your head, shoulders, etc.


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## lily cd re

Click-N-treat you are right that you have to tell Noelle when she is right so she comes to understand heeling fully and deeply. As some of you may have noticed I often rail against people who say their twelve week old puppy heels perfectly. I have never seen a puppy that had a clue about heeling, although plenty of puppies do learn quickly to give a loose leash walk. Try that five cookie game for attention and you will have less corrections to give and her responses will be snappier.

Skylar you are very correct that heads up heeling is much easier for those of us who have taller dogs. It is very difficult for a small dog to maintain that heads up position. Small dogs can instead be taught to watch the handler's left knee for cues. If you need to have a treat on the dog's nose it might work to use a long handled wooden spoon with the treat stuck on the spoon blade. Your analogy to ball room dancing is very spot on. It is a dance and your dog is your partner who hopefully learns to be very attuned to you as the leading partner.


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## Click-N-Treat

I started training Noelle heads up heeling from the start with a long spoon on a stick and peanut butter. It saved my back. No, puppies can't heel perfectly. Heeling perfectly is a really hard skill. I don't want to have Noelle wrap her head around my leg to see my face. And I don't want her to lag behind. Body language is important. So is footwork.

I feel like I'm all over the place in class. There are some other trainers who are way more advanced and have zero patience for me and Noelle. I got a very strong, "What are you doing here with us?" vibe from two other handlers in class. 

Yes, it's awesome that your dog got a 198 on her second leg last week. That's something to be proud of. But, eye rolling and sneering at me isn't helping. It's making me a little paranoid and giving me a HURRY UP AND TRAIN NOELLE NOW feeling. And a, "You're not good enough," feeling too. 

I'll have to figure out how to avoid them and focus on my own dog. "Don't try to win over the haters, you are not the jackass whisperer." Good advice, but hard when people are glaring at you in class.


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## lily cd re

Wow I am sorry there are some snooty types there. I have two friends who have OTChs (one of them has several and another has one on a Pomeranian, so both very accomplished trainers). The one with the Pom is my private lesson instructor and who I took Lily to to fix her utility routine. The one with the several OTChs (goldens) is found by some people to be snobby but I find her to be generous in trying to help people fix things and I have learned a lot from her while she trains in my open and utility classes. Hopefully you can figure out how to tune out their bad vibe and focus on the encouragement of the instructor.

I know you understand what I mean about heeling vs. loose leash, but I think a lot of people don't. It is hard sometimes to get people who are happy with loose leash to understand that they don't have heeling when they think they do (thinking about some beginner and novice teams who have trained with me at my club). And yes for Noelle her focus point should probably be your knee or your hip because to give heads up with your face as a focal point she would end up wrapping in front of your left leg. That isn't what judges want to see and can result in lost points because you end up bumping each other (especially on left turns).


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## Skylar

I have found with all my classes, that the first few sessions you feel like an outsider - especially since there will be a core of people who know each other. Eventually you will be welcomed into the club and most people will be friendly. There will always be a few highly competitive people who are snooty - I just ignore them.

At one club I just started a new session and two handlers showed up with golden retrievers pulling strongly ahead of them on the leashes and both women using two hands to try and control them. I groaned inside because I have seen one of the women - she's ahead of us in agility and her dogs are all over the place. I actually chose a different agility class to get away from one of her unruly dogs. Turns out the second person is the breeder who bred all the dogs that they both own. Groan - these dogs are wild. Shockingly it turns out both had older dogs that had some limited success in AKC rally. The trainer spent a long time with these two and it changed the dynamics of the class. At first I was a little upset, but then I realized it's good distraction training for my dog. While these dogs couldn't do the long sit or stay, I was thrilled my dog remained in place the whole time. She was distracted with heeling at times with these new dogs - but in a competition there will be all kinds of dogs and people waiting around the ring so she needs to learn to deal with it. I do understand how the other people feel - you have disrupted the flow. However I know that Noelle is a well behaved poodle and you will soon be completely up to speed in class and the other members will be happy that you joined the class.


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## Click-N-Treat

You're right of course. It is a drop in class and people of different levels are always going to be dropping in. Noelle has made good progress in the three weeks we've been there. The ring noodling has been cut by 80%. She made it through the long down and the long sit without getting up. We're not going to stop coming. And once I am better at understanding the flow of the class, I am sure I'll have an easier time of it. 

There are no dogs in my class like those two goldens. That would be frustrating. I think I'll make an effort to stay far away from the snooty ladies. Hopefully their dogs will move on to Open class soon. The rest of the dogs in my class are around Noelle's level. Great at some skills, ok at others, struggling with some. What's interesting is seeing what the different dogs find hard. 

Two dogs have a really hard time with recall. They stay when they should come. Noelle is off leash on recall and not a problem, no matter what is going on in the ring. When other dogs break stays, she stays put. Noelle is in the right class and learning the right stuff. The snooty people will have to deal with it, but... I will make an effort to keep out of their way.


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## zooeysmom

Click-N-Treat said:


> I got a very strong, "What are you doing here with us?" vibe from two other handlers in class.
> 
> And a, "You're not good enough," feeling too.
> 
> I'll have to figure out how to avoid them and focus on my own dog. "Don't try to win over the haters, you are not the jackass whisperer." Good advice, but hard when people are glaring at you in class.


Oh, do I ever know what you're talking about! My first AKC class with Maizie was like that, not with my classmates who were all outsider beginners too LOL, but with the more advanced people on the premises. My first barn hunt was like that, too--no one talked to us. The rally class I'm taking with Frosty was also like that...come to think of it, ALL of my classes have started like that! It's very stressful at first, but like Skylar said, they will accept you with time. It's so silly that adults can be that way, but it's the way it is in the dog world (and certainly the horse world, and probably lots of other things). Just focus on your girl while the insecure people calm down and accept you into their pack.


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## Click-N-Treat

Heeling is not loose leash walking, not at all. I taught her heads up, look at my face because she's not really that tiny. Noelle is 19 inches at the withers. I reward from my left hand, not my mouth because I saw she was going ahead and not staying at my side. 

Heeling is a peppy upbeat game we play. Her head's up, turned toward me, and we walk together like we're in a ball room dance. It is wonderfully synchronized, and then it isn't, and then it is, and then it isn't. 

Heeling, for Noelle, seems to feel... optional. Oh we're heeling, this is great fun, and I'm done now, let me snoop on the floor. Oh, we're heeling again. Cool. And we're getting close to that doberman and, oh, got a sniff. Wait, we're heeling again. 

I am very good at praising my dog. I am very good at letting her know when she got it right. I am super good at rewarding and I have great timing. Do you see what is missing?
Correction. I keep forgetting about correction. Duh! 

No, heel. 

I started using that this week. The second she turned her head, No, heel! And she turned her head back up. Walk two steps, reward. Wow, that made a huge difference. Her attention flickered instead of disappearing all together.

Now I'm turning my attention to duration, because she knows how to head's up heel next to me. It's that she thinks these things are voluntary and the duration is up to her. No, these things are mandatory, and the duration is up to me.

We're making progress, though. I can't imagine what she'll be able to do in six months or a year. Wow this is fun.


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## Click-N-Treat

Thank's Zooey's Mom. I needed to hear that. Yes, we will keep coming and keep improving and once I have a better sense of what I am doing, I'm sure the snooty people will calm down. Or move on to Open class. Ha!


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## Click-N-Treat

Figure eight footwork discovery! Last night, I started practicing turns with Noelle and realized she has a whole lot easier time moving in heel if we start out walking straight, or if we make a right turn. When I turn left, I turn into the dog. So, we practiced taking diagonal steps to the right in heel last night. Heel, slight right step. We made a full figure eight with no problem. She has a difficult time following my lead if we start out moving to the left. I'll train moving to the left, of course, but for figure eights, we start out moving right. 

Also, laundry hampers make good posts. Ha!


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## galofpink

Sounds like you are starting to figure out how to work with Noelle in a way that she understands the most, Click!

I've only taken a beginner puppy class with Shae and I started a couple weeks after a few people in the class. Shae was a mess - all over the place mentally, just wanting to see the other dogs. No one ever really gave me dirty looks, but it felt like there was a bit of judgement - "the lady with the crazy puppy". I did my best to stay in the back corner of the training arena - that helped Shae with less distractions, but then I didn't feel so guilty like I was being a distraction when Shae was acting up. I did a drop in class with the same trainer working on some beginner agility stuff and I felt like an alien/outsider. The other two dogs in the class were only a month older than Shae, but were calm, off leash reliable working on the agility items on command. The trainer didn't play favourites, but obviously she was more familiar with the other two people since they had been working together longer. 

Don't take the snobbishness to heart. Set your own expectations on what you want to accomplish in the class and take away from it and be satisfied with that. Don't worry about what other people think - just do your thing. 

When Shae and I went to class, a lot of times my objectives were very simple (like walking 10 steps on a loose leash, sitting for 5 secs when I take a step backward, etc) and most other people would have been like are you crazy, that's all you want her to do. But class was really difficult for Shae - it was distracting and new and there were lots of people and dogs, lots of excited people praising their puppies. Halfway through our set of classes, I really adjusted my expectations and usually when I expected the least I was more relaxed and Shae performed the best. 

Any little thing learned and improved is a step in the right direction! Don't worry about being perfect, just do your best and enjoy the experience. Noelle will get there when you are both ready!


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## Click-N-Treat

Thank you for your kindness, Gal, I really needed that. Noelle was exactly like Shea. We took three CGC classes and I heard, "She has a lot of puppy in her." During the last one, Noelle was 18 months old and still too silly for class. Noelle is maturing much more slowly than my husky mix did. Husky mix had her CGC at nine months. Noelle got her CGC at 20 months.

What I've noticed about my poodle is she is a whole lot like a gifted child. Gifted kids are super far ahead in some areas and lag behind in others. A seven-year-old gifted child can read like a 7th grader, carry on a conversation like an 8th grader, comprehend tons of information really fast. But, they have the emotional maturity of a five-year-old. Remembering that my poodle learns like a gifted child helps me a lot.

Many gifted children and poodles are... 

Emotionally sensitive. Aware of things other people miss. Have lots of energy. Super curious. Learn rapidly. Mature slowly. 

Knowing this about Noelle is helping me figure out how to train her. Both of our dogs will get where they need to go if we're patient and kind.


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## galofpink

Exactly Click! As "stupid" as Shae acts, I really do think she is a gifted dog. She thinks deeply, is emotionally sensitive, curious and exuberant. Of course no one thinks they're brilliant when they're bouncing off the walls, but give her to someone for 24 hours and then they start to see it. Any dog that can do what Noelle does with being an alert for you certainly is gifted too!

My mom raised my brother and I - two gifted children that were never "diagnosed" until we were 16/17 and doing private aptitude and intelligence tests for university. She thought we were normal since we were both similarly intelligent...The tester was like, why weren't these kids in accelerated programs? My mom was like - I didn't really know they were that smart. My mom reassures me that Shae reminds her of my brother (the more brilliant of us two) in canine form and that she will learn to channel herself. I just need to relax. Relaxing does solve a lot of issues - yes Shae has rules and expectations, but I try not to sweat the small stuff.

Gifted dogs are a really big gift and enrich our lives so much, even if we are pulling our hair out at the same time  They really do fill our hearts.


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## lily cd re

I put a couple of new Javelin videos up on my YouTube channel. They are embedded here. http://www.poodleforum.com/24-perfo...-javelins-road-ring-ready-16.html#post2986050


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## Click-N-Treat

I watched the videos, thank you! Does Javelin like slow creeping heel? Noelle does. She finds it fun when we creep along together. Last week at class the trainer came running over to us and said she was impressed by our slow heel. I'll have to get some video of Noelle heeling. I'd like to be able to compare where we are now with where we are going.


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## Click-N-Treat

Gal, I was identified as profoundly gifted at age four. I'd read the complete works of Shakespeare in elementary school. I could learn anything, but I had no peers. Who wants to discuss literature with an eight-year-old? Well, my mother, who was a gift to me, but other eight-year-old's had no desire to discuss Othello. Teachers took my books from me because they weren't age appropriate. My mother gave them back.

School was torture. I got in so much trouble, but not for deliberately misbehaving. I remember having a worksheet. The lessons was to circle the words ending in I-N-G. I scanned the paper, looking for words that ended in the letter G. Looked to the left of the G's for an N and circled the word. I was done in about 15 seconds. I looked up from my finished paper and saw my classmates were still working on it. So, I got a book out of my desk and quietly started to read. 

The teacher came over, yanked the book out of my hand, slammed it on my desk and yelled at me. I looked up at him in horror. Everyone was staring at me. "Why aren't you doing your assignment?"
"I'm done."
"You can't be done all ready."
I handed him the paper. I was 100% correct on every question. The teacher was so angry I thought he was going to hit me. I was overwhelmed in school. I didn't belong in his classroom. I couldn't learn there.

No one would believe for a moment a person with profound developmental delays could function in a regular classroom. I was as different from my classmates as someone with profound developmental delays, only in the opposite direction. Why then was I punished for being unable to function in a regular classroom? I realize now it was cruel. Grade skipping was of no use. No peers. 

I started college early. I didn't belong there, either. Again, no peers. I was not a square peg in a round hole. I was, and am, an icosahedron. And it doesn't get better as an adult. Answering someone's question and hearing them snap, "We can't all be in Mensa." And adults laugh at me... for being me. Chipping the edges off an icosahedron, turning it into a sphere.

I have learned to be quiet and aloof in the real world. When I hear a parent brag that their child is gifted, I cringe inside. To be gifted is no gift. It is to be alone. Perhaps this is why being sneered at by the other people in my dog class hurt so much. A reminder that once again, here is yet another place where I don't belong. 

Well, at least I'm not there to make friends. I'm there to train my dog. Noelle and I are simpatico. I understand how she learns and where her intelligence trips her up. I have a sensitive thinking dog on my leash, and I respect that, and embrace that. We have many adventures ahead. Focusing on that is worth any amount of eye rolling. 

Still hurt though.


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## lily cd re

Click that is so awful that you didn't have teachers who understood you. In grade school I had one particularly understanding teacher who realized I was beyond what was happening in his science class so he let me sit in the hall and read whatever I wanted most of the time. At first other teachers couldn't understand why I was in the hall being punished but when they saw what I was reading (and I guess spoke to my teacher) they figured it out and I spent most of that year's science classes out in the hall reading "big girl" science.

Javelin does love slow heel and he loves thinking generally about pace changes. that he likes the slow is funny since he thinks my normal pace of walking in the world (which puts him on an amble gait) is way too slow. He has recently taken to trying to hold my left hand in his mouth to tell me to hurry up (at least I think that is what he is saying).


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## Click-N-Treat

I'm glad you got to sit in the hall and read real science. That must have been a relief! My enrichment came after school. I was about seven or eight when I went into the adult section of the public library. The librarian came over and asked if I was lost, and tried to send me to the children's room. I told him I read all of the children's books. He looked surprised. Then he offered me his hand, and led me to the stacks. He found a book by Poe. He sat down and had me read it to him. Every day after school, I would go into the library and read to the librarian and talk to him about literature. He didn't seem to find it odd. It was as natural as could be. He got me into my Russian literature phase. The public library was a bully free haven. 

I had my mom, too. I didn't realize what she was up to until I became an adult. My mom suggested I read the complete works of Shakespeare when I was very young. I was probably complaining about being bored. And, knowing my mom, she was probably was joking! But, I thought she was serious, so I grabbed each play off the library shelves in the living room and read them one after another. 

I had to give a book report on Native Americans in 4th grade. Mom gave me Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee. I think she was curious to see if I would understand it. We then discussed it over tea. I don't remember if I wrote a report. I just remember talking books with my mom and the librarian. 

I put up with a lot of incredulous adults who said I wasn't really reading the books I was carrying. Many of my teachers didn't like me because I was restless and bored. Still, some adults built into me. I'm grateful for them, especially for my mom, my cello teacher, and the librarian. I think they saved me.


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## galofpink

Unfortunately (or fortunately), I think you are much more gifted than I Click, but I understand what you mean. Thankfully, you had your mother to provide you with enrichment, but those other stories are sad realities. My mom is a very smart lady too, never diagnosed but I'm sure she would have been gifted too, so we always had a smart environment to thrive in at home. Lots of books, encyclopedias, challenging board games, stimulating conversation, etc.

Being a gifted kid is especially isolating. I didn't have friends until high school and even then I was mostly aloof from them and was part of the group to have someone to sit with at lunch. They always put me in a split class in elementary school when available so I could teach the younger grade. The system was reluctant to push me ahead citing that I should be with my own age and not being so could cause social development issues. I didn't have any friends anyway so I don't think that would have been damaging. Doesn't matter, I stayed where I stayed. In grade 8, my first "enrichment" program came into effect...my one grade 8 teacher knew I was bored and smart in math. There were two other guys that were as smart in math, so the three of us were sent on to high school for math class. That meant studying for that class as well as doing independent study for the two gr 8 classes I would be missing while attending that class. That experience was really rewarding and stimulating, which really helped my gr 8 year and made my transition to high school much easier. I enjoyed grade 9 and 10. Grade 11 was okay. By grade 12, I was a bored and mediocre/just above average student who constantly skipped class and never studied. I always felt bad for my friends and acquaintances who studied really hard and always received marks less than me. I scraped by and made it to university. I loved university. Had a few friends, had a serious boyfriend, got my Rocky boy, did well in school. Life's good now, but it was very difficult to get through the pre-teen and teenage years. No one knew what gave me such an unsettled personality and they certainly didn't know what to do about it. Was just bored out of my tree and lacked purpose.

Lily, I can't believe you were a trouble maker  - that's so good that your teacher was able to be supportive and allow you to study something more stimulating.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Click-N-Treat

Gal,

I hear you. I really do. 

Tonight we have class again. I'm hoping Noelle does better on figure eights since we practiced them quite a bit. We still have a long way to go, but we're heading in the right direction.


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## lily cd re

Click-N-Treat if you can have the posts move out to about 10-12 feet apart and make your turns sweeping while keeping your pace constant. This will help Noelle to understand that she has to adjust her pace to remain at heel. Also if you haven't seen it I have a detailed description of how to treat figure eights and their footwork in the thread about the workshop Javelin and I did in August. It is post #15 here http://www.poodleforum.com/24-perfo...g/241714-intermediate-obedience-workshop.html

Have fun tonight!


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## Johanna

Click-N-Treat, I can certainly identify with your frustration with teachers when you were a student. I was fortunate enough to have gone through school at a time when there were "tracks". Those of us in the "college bound" track were challenged with more difficult work so we would not get bored (and therefore get into trouble).

One interesting situation I had when I was a teacher was with the parents of an advanced student who did NOT want their son challenged. I was teaching 7th grade English - the boy read on a college level. When the other students were reading a simplified version of the Odyssey, I gave him my copy of it from my Great Books series. His parents were not having that! They just wanted him to have an easy path through school. I wonder how he ended up?


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## Click-N-Treat

Hi every poodle, it's me, Noelle. 

I has an important question. When you are telled to stay, does that me stay stay, or does that mean stay until you're sicks of staying and then you can get up? I think it's the second. I thinks when Mom says stay, and walks away from me, she's forgotten something important, her poodle shaped shadow, meeeee.

I gots very confuzed in class this week. Here's what happened.

Mom said, sit.
I sitted because I am a good poodle.
Mom said, stay.
I stayed, also because I am a good poodle.
Mom walked away. 
She made a stop sign with her hand, so I stayed. Hours and hours and hours passed. I gotted all lonely. So I went to see Mom.

She made a angry face and put me back to where I was supposed to sit.
So, I sit again, but I was confused about why mom made a angry face.

Then we had to down and the same thing happened. I was down, and then I wanted to sees mom, so I gotted up. Mom said down again, so I downed. I pretended I were a jack-in-the-box. Down, boing! Down, boing! Finally, Mom made the mostest exasperatedified face I have ever seen. Down, stay! Mom said that in her I means it voice. Well, I didn't want to down and stay. Stay is boring. So I gotted up again. 

And then the worstest thing happened. Mom transmogrified into a gargoyle! Her face gotted all twisted, and her ears got pointy and everything. I got very scared. I wouldn't dream of lying down in front of a gargoyle. So I did the safest thing possible. I laid down on my back and showed my belly because I was afraid of the gargoyle face mom was making.

Mom instantly stopped making that face, though. She said she was sorry and gaved me cheese and petting. And when I downed again, mom walked around and and around me instead of walking far far away. 

I gotted kinda confuzed in class. Mom felt bad because she scared me. She taked me to McDonalds and we eated a cheeseburger together. Mom is holding me right now so I can types with my paws. 

So, can you help a poodle out? Does stay mean stay stay, or does stay mean stay for a while until something more interesting happens? And if I does do a stay stay, will mom be happy, or will she turn into a gargoyle?

Please helps me. I don't understand what Mom wants and I want so much to be a good poodle. I do. I really, really do. 

Your friend,
Noelle


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## zooeysmom

Oh my gosh, Noelle, you are too cute! I think my dogs would love to respond to you, but they've already gone to bed for the night. Sweet dreams, sweet girl


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## fjm

Dear Noelle
I asked Sophy what she thinks, because she is very clever. She says Mums think it should be Stay Stay, but they sometimes need to be reminded how very boring that is for dogs, and how worrying it can be when there are lots of other dogs and people around. She reckons the problem with being very, very good most of the time is that Mums start to think you should be very good All The Time, and forget what hard work it is! And your Mum really, really needs you close to her to keep her safe, which makes it even more difficult to understand. So it is rather a silly game, but probably worth learning if the treats are really good. Sophy says the best thing to do is to just keep half an eye on your Mum and think of chicken, but I think Down/Boing! sounds like the perfect poodle game, and much more fun than all the boring stuff humans want us to do. And Sophy says that it is only a game, so if it makes your Mum happy it is a little bit important, but not nearly as important as the Magic Cookie Smell game which keeps her safe (I don't really understand that bit).

The gargoyle thing sounds really scary. That Voice is bad enough! I'm glad your Mum apologised so nicely with cheese burgers (are those like bacon sandwiches?). We think you are amazingly good already - much gooder than we are. Sophy stops being good sometimes because she thinks of more interesting things to do, and because she reckons if you are good all the time humans forget about paying for it and need reminding. I just forget...

Love Poppy xx


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## lily cd re

Hey Noelle, Javvy here. We are sorry mom went gargoyley ons you. Our mom does that every now and agains. I tink shes tryin hard not to does it if she knows we's tryin too. I says that is big big scares time when it does happens. Lils is da expert pudel on dis topics since she's been doin sits and downs stays for almost her whole life. She says dat stay means stayin put until mom comes backs. Mom doesn't even say the stay word to Lils anymore. I seen dat happen and I's amazed dat Lily never moves. I dunno how she does it. I'm like you Noelle I find it boring to stay doin nothin for such long times. Lils even says dat sometimes moms go out of the room and leaves her stayin widout watchin her. Lils understands its all good enuf dat she never moves no matter how long mom leaves for or where it happens. Lils also tells me I needa learn to do da same ting. I be tryin hard to do what mom says.

Your pal Javvy


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## reraven123

Hey, Noelle, Zephyr here. My Mum does that same thing, and listen to this--even when I stay stay stay EXACTLY where I am she still gets mad when it gets so long I just can't sit anymore and I lay down. What's a poor dog to do? Last week there were other dogs who just couldn't wait any longer and they were walking all around and I still stayed right where I was (well, for a long time I did until I figured out she must have forgotten all about me). She didn't get very mad that time. There was even one big white poodle who has to wear a special really long leash because he likes to run all around and I could have so much fun with that poodle except I'm not allowed even to talk to him at all. Last week he was having so much fun he got his long leash all wrapped up around him until he couldn't even run around any more and everybody was laughing at him. I like it when people laugh, except when they laugh when we're in class I am starting to think that is not such a good thing. 

Really hard to figure out! Anyway, it's not just you, and most of the time it's pretty fun. Except not being able to play with that poodle.


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## Johanna

Click-N-Treat said:


> So, can you help a poodle out? Does stay mean stay stay, or does stay mean stay for a while until something more interesting happens? And if I does do a stay stay, will mom be happy, or will she turn into a gargoyle?
> 
> Please helps me. I don't understand what Mom wants and I want so much to be a good poodle. I do. I really, really do.
> 
> Your friend,
> Noelle


Noelle, don't worry, your mom will never, ever leave you. But when you are supposed to do stay stay, you do have to be patient and wait until she comes back. 

PS - I have a terrible time with stay, it's so very hard for me to be still!
Love, Zoe


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## zooeysmom

Noelle, stay means stay stay so mommy duzn't turn into a goyle (that sownds verry scery!). - Maizie

Noelle, a mommy is da bestest persn in the wurld and u wont to mak huh happy, wite? So u hav to stay stay untill she sez so. - Frosty


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## Click-N-Treat

Thank you so much every poodle. This is Noelle again. So, I guess stay means stay stay. I'm with Javvy becauze I thinks stays is boring. But, Frosty and Maizie says it means stay stay. Lily says stay stay. Sophy and Poppy say stay stay. Zoe says stay stay. Zephyr says it meanz stay stay. Sigh. Maybe it really doze mean stay stay. I hates that. Maybe I will pretend to be a statue dog. That might be more fun.

Mom said next week she will brings a special super wonderful stay treat to helps me. I only gets it if I stays. We will also practice stay. It's hard, poodles. I likes being with my mom. 

I likes recalls. Mom tells me to sit, and I sit. Mom walks far, far, miles and kilometers and yards and meters away. Then she turns around and says, "Noelle, come!" Whoosh! I runs so fast. So, so, so fast. I come flying like a flying poodle, off leash and everything. Zoom! I'm so good at that game. In my class, after we do stay stay stay, three different stays, sit stay, down stay, stand stay, we gets to does recalls. I loves that part. 

Yesterday in the ring next to me, they was doing something called OVER, where dogs were jumping over things. Mom tells me if I am a good poodle in class someday we will learn to do over. Yay!

Thanks for your help, every poodle.
Your friend forever,
Noelle


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## fjm

Yes I like recalls too! I like the way my ears bounce and fly when I zoom to Mum, and I like the treats when I get there and the silly game we play! I really like the Over game too, but Sophy hated it and would not play. She tried every which way to tell Mum it hurt, but Mum kept on and on trying to persuade her. Then Mum felt really guilty when Sophy had her bad back the first time. But if you don't have a wonky back it is a really good game. The only thing better are the things you climb up, especially if all the humans are hanging around nattering waiting for their turns and you can climb up behind them and steal treats from their pockets! I said you were gooder than we are...

Poppy xx


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## lily cd re

Noelle, We's luvs over so so much! Lily has dun the over jumpys lots and lot. I gets to do it some too, but mom's sayz "I need to control my impulses." I is just so happy to go jumpies dat I don't always wait until she tells me to jumpy and then she makes that scary gargoyley face at me toos. I wunders how both our mom's know da scary faces things?

Recalls is very much funs too. Sometimes I goes so fast I can hardly stop and I runs right into mom. She makes scary faces then too.

Luv ya girlfriend,
Javvy Pups

PS from mom, having Javelin barrel into me full bore can be like getting hit by a freight train. Yikes!


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## Click-N-Treat

I can only imagine being hit by a full speed standard hurts a lot! Noelle being somewhere between a standard and a mini isn't nearly as bad. She needs to work on her brakes, too. But, I love her enthusiasm. We'll get where we need to go. Eventually!


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## LizzysMom

Dear Noelle -
I'm pretty sure when your mom says "stay", she means "STAY stay". And, I'm also pretty sure that you will do that for your mom, even if you don't WANT to, 'cause MY mommy says you are pretty much the perfect poodle, and you are my hero. 
Love, 
Lizzy


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## Click-N-Treat

Oh noes, Lizzy! Not yous too! You says it means stay stay. Oh noes. This is terrible news. I don't wants it to mean stay stay. I want it to mean stay play. Is you sure it doesn't mean stay play? That would be so much funner.


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## doditwo

Dear Noelle
Let your mom know a really high value treat would be a brand new cellphone and your very own PF account. If she’s also willing to deliver random cheeseburgers then stay stay stay.
I know I would.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Click-N-Treat

Last night when we were practicing training, I realized Noelle has no idea what stand means. How is that possible? Did I forget to train something so basic? Or did Noelle just forget? Either way, it's back to the beginning. Get the clicker out and train a stand.

She did do a very nice stand stay and sit stay. I made her stay for 2 minutes in a sit. Tonight we'll do the full three minutes. She knows what I mean, but having me walk away seems to stress her out. 

Anyone have any games to make my walking away less stressful?


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## Skylar

Click-N-Treat said:


> She did do a very nice stand stay and sit stay. I made her stay for 2 minutes in a sit. Tonight we'll do the full three minutes. She knows what I mean, but having me walk away seems to stress her out.
> 
> Anyone have any games to make my walking away less stressful?


There is no need for you to walk away early on - if she is really stressed you can stand toe to toe if needed. Only walk as far away as she is comfortable. There is no rush to walk far. Remember she is used to working close to you so this is very different. In addition she may be reacting to tension from other dogs in the class. I've had one dog get up and go to my dog and encourage her to zoom - my dog did stand up but she didn't move while the other dog ran to the water bowl (in the next session we'll be in the same class as that dog and I hear he is still up to those tricks so I will try to put a dog or two between us if I have a choice). I watch not only my dog but the other dogs in the class to see if they could have an impact on my dog. If I see a dog about to zoom, I walk calmly up to my dog to remind her I'm here and it's safe and she must remain in her stay.

I have a pretty solid stay with Babykins. I remember it was iffy for the CGC and we had to practice it a lot. I stuck with practicing for competition Obedience. 

At home I put her in a sit, set the timer on my phone and stood toe to toe with her to start. I slowly increased the time and distance until she could sit for at least 5 minutes with me about 15 feet away in another room. We practiced twice a day for months. I set her up for success by moving incrementally so she rarely broke her stay. If she did, I just set her back up and went back a step. Always good treats and lots of praise for rewards when finished and maybe a game of toss or a walk. During the stay I look over her head; I can see her but not into her eyes which can be stressful. I also never speak during the stay except to say "stay" if I see any wiggle movement indicating she might move. In addition to standing, I've sat on chairs, on the floor, and moved around as proofing. For Beginner Novice, you have to walk around the ring with your dog sitting in the center - so practice moving around and walking away once she gets the hang of it. In class my trainers walk near the dogs because some judges do that as well as other fun things. A good stay is so helpful when teaching other forms of stay such as when heeling you ask your dog to stay in a stand position while you walk away, or sit stay while you walk away for recall exercise.

I also use stay in other activities. She has to stay on her mat while I get the cats and her meals prepared - which means I have to go to the pantry and fridge and it takes awhile to get everything ready. When we're in the car, she isn't allow to jump out of the car until I use the release word "okay" and hand signal - and that "stay" could be short or long - I vary it as I want a controlled, safe exit from the car at all times. So "stay" gets reinforced through the day. If I'm in a store shopping, she may have to be in a sit stay and in class while we are waiting she may be in a down stay. I'm sure you're using it regularly too - it will kick in and be solid - it just takes awhile of consistency and incrementally demanding more. Noelle is a smart cookie and you're a fabulous trainer so you will get that rock solid stay with time.


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## Click-N-Treat

I think you are so right, Skylar. Noelle is used to working with me within a two foot radius, so having me leave is very strange to her. She has nailed it in every class before this one, even when other dogs were doing the zoomies, so I must admit to being puzzled. Well, back up and start over from the beginning is not a problem.

Competition obedience couldn't be more different from service dog training! Everything needs to be so precise! Oh well, we'll get where we need to go if I slow down and make it fun. Noelle is eager to please and loves to work with me. 

Next week, during the long stays, I'll stay close and every week move two steps back, so it's not stressful.


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## lily cd re

Yes, exactly what Skylar said. Get the behavior up close and short duration then you add duration then distance. Also in all likelihood by the time you are ready to compete remember that these exercises may be very different. I believe the AKC board voted on the changes on Tuesday, but so far no release of minutes.


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## Click-N-Treat

Well, we're not anywhere near ready to compete so I have plenty of time to adapt to any changes. We will practice stand on command and stays. I hope my turning into a gargoyle doesn't lead to long term stress during stays. I'll have to make that a happy thing for her next week.


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## Skylar

Click-N-Treat said:


> Well, we're not anywhere near ready to compete so I have plenty of time to adapt to any changes. We will practice stand on command and stays. I hope my turning into a gargoyle doesn't lead to long term stress during stays. I'll have to make that a happy thing for her next week.


Yes, as Catherine point out we're all waiting to hear what the changes will be in this exercise - you may only be standing at the end of a 6' leash when they finally make the new rule.

No need to be a gargoyle, just relax and stand still -don't make faces at Noelle, stare at something on the wall above her head.


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## Click-N-Treat

I've been struggling with trying to get my health strong enough where I can handle class. Well, tonight we went. Since half my class has moved on to Open class, we did run throughs of Beginner Novice. Noelle had never done this before, so I had no idea if we would do well or not. 

We entered the ring calmly together. 

Heel. Heeling is fun. Speed changes are fun. Turns, Noelle loves turns. Sit next to me. Perfect! 

Figure eight. Start going to the right. Figure eight around the pole. Sit in the middle. Figure eight around the pole. Sit in the middle.
Perfect!

Sit for exam. I'm thinking OH BOY, she's gonna go bonkers.
Noelle, Sit!
Noelle sat.
Noelle, STAY! I walked to the end of the leash. Trainer came in, touched her, I returned. Noelle did not move.
Perfect!

Stay in the center of the ring while I walk all the way around. 
Um... This we need to work on. She did well until I got behind her and then she wanted to be with mom. OK, we can work on that. Stay in the middle of a space while I walk around her in larger and larger rectangles, always rewarding when I come back.

Recall. Noelle came flying. Crashed into me, bounced off. Sat. Did a nice finish.

All in all, it was not bad, not bad at all.

Both trainers asked me are you planning to compete? They both really want us to show because they love our relationship. Well, I enjoy training Noelle, so yeah, why the heck not. Joyce told me there's a show in April not too far away from here. And you know what? We're gonna give it a whirl.

Assuming I can get Noelle to stop and sit without bouncing off me. Silly Noelle! Well, at least I know what we need to work on. It was good to be back. Yes it was.


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## MollyMuiMa

YAY!!! for you and Noelle ! Can't wait to hear about her 1st competition! You guys are going to do good, I know it!!!!!!


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## galofpink

Well done Noelle (and click)! That's so exciting that you have decided that you are going to try to enter your first competition!


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## fjm

Sounds like an excellent start to the year!


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## Skylar

Wow, that's fantastic.


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## reraven123

Best wishes to you both! Just remember not to take it too seriously, it's meant to be fun! And don't be too critical of yourself. I remember my first few schooling shows I always thought we hadn't done well enough to even Q, but a couple times we got first place. You will always see everything that you did wrong, but everyone else sees all the things you did right.


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## lily cd re

I am so glad you are feeling well enough to go to class again. I knew you and Noelle would rock it and am happy to hear you have decided to give entering a go. The sit/stand for exam thing was always hard for Lily when she was young. Greeting the friendly stranger in the CGC was accompanied by a tremendous amount of wiggly butt and offers to lick the stranger, but eventually became passable. Eventually it became one of her favorite exercises since she has decided it is all about people petting her!

Best of luck to you both.


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle has tremendous drive and excitement in everything she does. She's fun to train because of her joyful feedback. Right now, sit in front is the biggest challenge. It's run as fast as possible, bang into my shins, bounce off and sit. The drive is there. The brakes not so much. You could add some pretty funny cartoon noises to Noelle's recall. I can almost hear her screaming, "Yabba Dabba Do!" as she comes running. 

I want her to keep her drive. I just don't want her to bonk into me. So, we practiced come/sit today. I'll keep practicing come/sit. Eventually she will get the idea, and find her slow down knob before she slams into me.


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## lily cd re

I have had Javelin run full speed into me on recalls too, and he weighs just shy of 50 pounds! What has helped is doing short distance recalls and telling him to sit front as he comes in. This way he sees what the end of the recall is supposed to be and now I am getting better full distance recalls. He still takes off like a fighter jet, but lands more like a private prop plane.

It is great to work with a dog that is always ready to launch into outer space on the energy scale, but who learns the skills to keep it together for lovely heeling or kick ass go outs or awesome recalls with beautiful straight fronts.


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## Click-N-Treat

Fighter jet!!!!! Hilarious. I can see it, though.
Come!
WHOOSH! 
Well, you did name the boy Javelin, so getting speared when he comes in from a recall makes sense. But, 50 pounds of bounce off your legs. 1 kg·m/s 2, calculate the physics... WOW! That's gotta leave a mark.

Since Noelle is smaller, she uses her feet more Fred Flintstone style, almost running in place from excitement and then, zoom! Bonk! 

I'm thinking of getting some rubber bathmats and cutting them to exact poodle butt size. Sit on this mat, click/treat. Run in and sit on this mat click/treat. Then cut the bathmat into a strip by my feet, and then fade it entirely.


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## lily cd re

Thankfully (or not) he doesn't take me out at the knees. The I would really be in trouble. He often jumps up and hits me in the abdomen where he does leave bruises (but then again I am anticoagulated). I named him Javelin so he would do go outs, and that worked, but he does spear me coming in too. The bath mat sounds like a good idea. I also have a front box which is basically a U shape made of pvc. It is just wide enough for him to sit in and keep him straight.


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## Click-N-Treat

Well, he's a spear all right. I love watching your videos of both dogs. Lily with her polish and grace, and Javelin with his joy and verve. You've inspired me a lot. I never thought I could train a dog to do competitive anything. But, to have two trainers corner me and almost bully me into competing was pretty funny. We have until April to get this sit/stay and recall with a perfect sit figured out. I think we're on our way. Yes, we're on our way.


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## lily cd re

Click-N-Treat said:


> Well, he's a spear all right. I love watching your videos of both dogs. Lily with her polish and grace, and Javelin with his joy and verve. You've inspired me a lot. I never thought I could train a dog to do competitive anything. But, to have two trainers corner me and almost bully me into competing was pretty funny. We have until April to get this sit/stay and recall with a perfect sit figured out. I think we're on our way. *Yes, we're on our way*.



Yes you are and between now and April you have plenty of time to fix those two things.


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## Click-N-Treat

Today during practice I cut a rubber bathmat down to size. Noelle practiced sitting on it. Then we did short recalls, sit on mat. Then... Then I left her in the dining room in a sit/wait. I went all the way to the end of the hallway by the bedrooms. That gave her a chance to build up speed on recalls. She came flying and crashed into me as always. I returned her to start with no reward and only "silly dog" style scolding, very lighthearted.

We tried it again. As she was almost to me, I yelled, SIT! She put on the brakes, came in a little too hot, did some cartoonish flailing, but landed in a sit without bouncing off me first. Praise and treats.

We repeated this several times. About 50% of the time, she crashed into me. But, toward the end, she crashed less and less. On our last try, I stood in front of the mat, so she had to sit at my feet. And guess what? She got it! Yay Noelle!

We will continue practicing both with the mat and without it. We also did long stay with me walking behind her. This makes her nervous, so I need to reward more often and laugh more as we play. It's only a game, Noelle. Only a game. Peek a boo, I'm behind you! laugh, treat. Fun. 

We practiced heeling and figure eights. Today was fun, fun, fun.


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## Click-N-Treat

I am exhausted! We went to class and I worked super hard trying to get Noelle's attention. There was a show coated American Cocker Spaniel that was new and Noelle decided this dog was going to be her newest best friend! Oh noes. I did not let her say hello, though. Heel in the ring became pull in the ring, and sniff the floor, and pull, and correct and... yeah, that sucked. 

But, it got better. We did the figure 8 which we had been practicing and that went better. 
We did a down/stay sit/stay and that went much better particularly the sit. She got up once during the down, but I remembered not to turn into a gargoyle and just put her back in a down gently.

Stand for exam. Noelle stood. I walked away. The trainer came in and touched her. I returned. Noelle did not budge. Yay! That was a first for her and I was super proud. Then, then we did it a second time and we were successful again.

Recalls, run into mom, bonk. Repeat. Trainer said Noelle is anticipating my recall. She's right. Last time, I looked away from Noelle directly at the trainer after I turned around, and ignored Noelle. When the trainer gave the signal, then I looked at Noelle and called her. So, I need to remember that.

I need to practice giving treats from my left hand and not my right. Duh. Such a basic thing, but I always forget. So, Noelle is going to be having lots of treats this week from my left hand. 

So, some victories and some problems. Oh, and my club is having a fun match in March! We're going! Yay!


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## lily cd re

That is splendid on the stand for exam. Lily was always inclined to wiggle. She thinks it is fun to have people pet her which is what she thinks is happening during the judge's exam. Now she stays pretty still and at the very least keeps he feet planted.

The other stuff tends to go back and forth and back and forth. No worries over it.

I am glad you have the chance to do a match coming up! Matches are incredibly important.


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## Click-N-Treat

Yeah, the fun match sounds awesome. We may just do fun matches for a while and get used to the whole process before actually entering for real. The real trouble I am having is coordinating my leash and my left hand, which is significantly weaker than my right. It is easier for me to reward from the right and hold the leash on my left. I will practice.

Footwork on my end, especially for the about turns, is important. I am realizing that how I move impacts how Noelle moves. It's stunning how tuned in she is to my movements. I am also aware Noelle lags a little on heel. I think I may be walking a little faster than her natural movement, so it doesn't feel like we're together. Being a musician, I will get a metronome out and figure out what tempo works best for walking together. Slow is our best because we creep along in complete synchronicity. I think my normal speed is moderato at about 87 beats per minute and Noelle is andante at 85 beats per minute, ever so slightly slower than I am. Andante is a walking pace, but I tend to walk fast. 

I will pay attention to what speed I am walking when she is heeling perfectly, and count this off like I would music, one, and two, and, three, and four, and. On fast Noelle lags because I am probably too fast. Knock normal down to 85 beats per minute, bring fast up to 100 beats per minute, practice with the metronome so I get a sense of where we are in time when we are in synchronicity and pay attention.

Last night after class, I taught Noelle to go around behind me and sit at heel. It took about three tries before she had the idea. It works better than the swing finish and is less likely to be crooked. Although, Noelle's leaping spin in midair and landing in a sit at heel, is glorious to see when she gets right. Problem is, she gets it perfect about 20% of the time. 

This week's tasks are reward on the left, leash in right hand, footwork on about turns, down/stay and finding our magical heeling tempos. It really does make a huge difference when our tempos match on heel. One and two and three and four and, one and two and three and four and.


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## Click-N-Treat

Our class starts with heeling around the ring. Noelle was more interested in the other dogs than she is in heeling, at least at first. I suppose it is a warm-up exercise, but tonight I got Noelle's focus and attention on our final trot around the ring. Sigh.

Figure eights went okay. We did the group stays with our dogs back to back. Noelle didn't mind having a dog behind her. The only mistake she made was a handler error that made it seem like she was supposed to come during the sit/stay because of the way I moved. Oops. My bad. She made it all the way through the down stay without moving, though.

Stand for exam was rough this week, she sat for the trainer and tried to snuggle and be cute. Under normal circumstances, that would be fine, but not during stand for exam. We will work on staying put; however, she did do a very nice kickback stand, so there is that. 

We did some recalls. On the first one, Noelle became air born and flew into me, bonk! Then she sat. The whole class laughed at us. Well, I'd rather have an overly enthusiastic dog that I need to turn the volume down on than a dog that's hard to motivate on a recall.
She sat twice without bonking into me. I had to run backward, but hey, we're getting there. Motivation we have, it's brakes we need to work on.

Between exercises, we worked on our heel. I put the leash around my neck and had some fantastic about turns and heels with speed changes. Noelle is really sparkling on her heel when she's focused. Overall, I was proud. That was fun. Let's do that some more.


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## lily cd re

I hope somewhere down the road you will get some video. I would love to see her recalls and some pretty heeling!


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## Click-N-Treat

Her recall is hilarious, wrong, but hilarious. Noelle comes flying so fast, launches into the air and... bonk! I'll have to get a video of it somehow, and heeling, too. I just realized today the park across the street from me has a picnic shelter roof held up by poles that are roughly eight feet apart. Perfect spot to practice heeling around posts. In fact, that picnic shelter would make a pretty good place to practice obedience exercises once it warms up. And not a bad place for some videos, too.

I'll shorten my distance from Noelle during class to about eight feet so she can't build her speed up and will learn to sit. Over the next few weeks I'll slowly lengthen the distance. She'll get it. If I made a video now, I'd have to put Fred Flintstone yelling "Yabba Dabba Doo!" Because every recall reminds me of a cartoon. So excited she runs in midair for a second, seems to defy the laws of physics and then zoom! Yeah, I'll get a video.


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## lily cd re

Doing the recall over a shorter distance is going to be a great way to get her to really understand she can come quickly but not like a bat out of hell launching at you. I would tell her to sit when she is still about 5-6 feet in front of you. You won't really want her that far away at the end but it will keep her from slamming into you. You can also teach fronts as a separate exercise. Is your recall order come or front or something else? For Lily in novice I called front on the recall since she knows that front means sit right in front of me squarely and looking up. Since she was happy to come back to me I never worried about her not coming. In open I would call come for the first order, do the drop and then tell her front for the second part of the return. So essentially come just means head in my direction until I tell you something else to do and front means sit in front of me gazing up adoringly until I tell you something else to do. 

Lily and Javelin are both enthusiastic recallers and in open I sometimes had a hard time getting the drop in before Lily was at my feet since she was so fast. I remember one time in a trial where by the time the judge gave the drop order she had such a head of steam up that she slide and was right in front of me. When I was ordered to call her to front she sat up in place and there she was right at front. It was one of her more hilarious NQs.


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## Click-N-Treat

Remember how in Austin Powers he said, "Danger is my middle name." I think NQ is going to be Noelle's middle name for a while. I've used both front and come and both result in full steam ahead sonic boom style take offs with landings that are, well, very funny.


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## lily cd re

Well as you said earlier it is better to have a lively happy dog than a dull drudge of a dog.

Here is how I have taught front to both Lily and Javelin. Using a six foot leash, take a few steps forward with the dog at heel and then stop and take a few steps back as you say front. Use a cookie lure at first if needed to get the dog to sit in front of you looking up. Take one step back and say front so that all the dog can do is stand move one step and sit again. Repeat, repeat, repeat. As you become sure the dog knows what front means/where front is then you will take steps to the side, add quarter turns left and right, 180 turns in place always telling the dog to front. At this point if Noelle is always launching as she reaches you and should sit then she doesn't really fully understand yet what front means. 

I will try to get some videos on this soon. It has been hard to do many recently since I have been alone on Fridays at my club. My assistant's husband is currently in the last week and a half or so of 5 weeks of daily radiation therapy and weekly chemotherapy to shrink his esophageal tumor before he has surgery to resect it. His prognosis is pretty good since a PET scan before treatment started showed no metastasis and he also is a fit and healthy 60ish other than the obvious big problem. I miss her and her dogs, but she is where she needs to be for this process, right at his side through their tough journey.


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## Skylar

Click I have that same problem, I think most poodle owners do. Our dogs are racing so quickly to come and sit in front that they don’t factor in that they have to slow down as they approach. We do come at home on a regular basis for practice but between the holidays and reviewing the new changes in novice obedience, we didn’t do any recalls from 30 feet or longer for awhile. Last week I’m standing there confident that my dog will do her recall perfectly as she always does, my dog is stepping on the gas so hard as she rushes in the she can’t stop, so she did something she has never done before, she’s smart on her feet and she knows she has to end up sitting in heel position, so she ran around me and came to sit in heel and looked up all sweet and innocent with a look saying “I did it”. Oops. I’ve noticed too that she needs recent practice on different floor surfaces to learn and keep fresh where she needs to adjust her running in order to come into front position. 

I do know one miniature poodle, who when the owner calls “come” the dog runs like crazy to her then veers off to take a drink of water even is she just gave him a drink of water. 

We’re always a work in progress.......


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## lily cd re

Skylar that is a clever poodle solution to running out of room for the front, but make sure you don't let Babykins do that again or you will end up with an autofinisher. My mom has that problem with her mpoo. He recalls very fast and often just goes to heel without fronting because the change of direction slows him down enough to be able to sit.


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## Skylar

lily cd re said:


> Skylar that is a clever poodle solution to running out of room for the front, but make sure you don't let Babykins do that again or you will end up with an autofinisher. My mom has that problem with her mpoo. He recalls very fast and often just goes to heel without fronting because the change of direction slows him down enough to be able to sit.


Thanks for the warning. I’ve seen others with this problem so I’m going to call “front” instead of “come”. Babykins know what front is. Between rally and previous proofing in obedience class, she can come from anywhere and front perfectly without me having to take any steps back. I’m also going to ask the teacher if we can do a shorter one on that surface first to avoid the problem.


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## Click-N-Treat

I'll work on Front means sit in front of me, you silly poodle. I just got a new six foot leather leash so, this will be useful. 

I really do need video of Noelle's Yabba Dabba Doo! It's wrong, but so funny. I almost wish I didn't have to fix it. Maybe I'll put that style recall on another cue, perhaps, Yabba Dabba Doo!


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## galofpink

Yabba Dabba Doo sounds like a great idea! Then Noelle and you can still enjoy the silliness and exuberance of this act with it being on your request


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## Click-N-Treat

We are back from class. I didn't go last week. It was snowing like mad. We're actually buried in snow, which is weird for Chicagoland. It's up to Noelle's shoulders and over Francis's head! It's fun for the dogs to play in. Francis follows Noelle's trails. Leaping like a gazelle must be good exercise, because Noelle came to class focused and ready.

Heel. Normally, this is me tugging Noelle around the ring five times because she's more interested in the other dogs in the ring, than in me. This week?

Sit at heel. Noelle, heel. Eyes up, looking at me, and moving with me like magic. Fast, slow, about turn, left turn, right turn, around the ring, eyes on me. The only problem I had was not enough opportunities to reward because Noelle was doing super awesome amazing. But, I was praising and laughing with her, so there was that. 

Figure eight. I was paired up with Joanie and her show coated golden retriever. He's the kind of dog that makes you turn your head and go, wow what a beauty. And he's sweet, too. The third person was a newbie. So, Cody and Joanie went first. And they were awesome. Heads up heel all the way around. Noelle and I went next and we were, ahem, awesome. Heads up heel all the way around, square sit. And a, "very nice job!" from the trainer. Poor newbie. Her dog was everywhere except with her as she tried to do the figure eight. And she looked so frustrated and flustered. I felt bad. Proud of Noelle, bad for her.

Long sit and long down, well, that looked a lot like this.
Noelle sit. 
I am sitting at heel and looksing up at you because I love you.
Noelle stay.
That means I stay stay, right? Okay, you goes over to the end of the leash and I'll waits for you to come back.

The dog on the left of Noelle was a jack-in-the-box.
The dog on the right of Noelle was a jack-in-the-box.
Throughout the entire long sit, they were taking turns getting up and moving around. Noelle maintained her long sit and I don't think she even moved her ears. Statue dog.
I returned to heel, and released Noelle. Long down, same thing happened, dogs on the left and right were popping up and down, while Noelle maintained her down. Perfect! With great distractions! Awesome!

Stand for exam. Noelle, stand. She stood. Noelle, stay. Noelle stayed. Trainer came over patted Noelle. I returned to heel. Trainer said, "Wow! That's so much better. She's come a long way!" Yes.

Second trainer. Noelle, stand. She stood. Noelle stay. She stayed. Trainer came over and...
and...
and, melted into a sit between the trainer's legs and looked up adoringly at her, please pet my ears. I think I loves you.
Oh noes! 

She did that three times. On the fourth time, she did an 80% better stand for exam, just shifted her feet. As long as she gets no praise for snuggling, that behavior will extinguish. 

Recalls last. Ah, the dreaded bouncing recall. I told the trainer we practiced sit in front, and she said she wanted to see it. So, when it was my turn, I walked three steps away from Noelle. The trainer's jaw dropped when I turned around, then she grinned a mile wide smile. I waited for the signal and called Noelle. Noelle came at a trot and sat in front. HA! I walked a little further away, and Noelle came and sat. Ha! This is going to work. Short recalls with a sit, followed by longer and longer recalls. If she bonks into me, silly handler, you went too far too fast. 

One of the better dogs in our class, a Russel Terrier named Secret, bounded across the ring and bonked into her handler. Secret's handler is an expert handler, so it was very funny to see Noelle get it right and Secret screw up. Secret's mom blamed Noelle for teaching her bad things, and we got a good laugh. 

Noelle and I have been practicing a lot, but we've been practicing 75% silly tricks these two weeks, because she's close to getting her trick dog intermediate title. Carry a basket, sit up pretty, play this musical instrument with your paw, weave through my legs, leap through a hula hoop, walk backward, heel to music... 

We have been practicing tricks, but when I got to class, all the other stuff was magic. I think this was the best class Noelle has ever had. Most improved gold star for Noelle this week. We'll continue to practice obedience exercises, and tricks, because training Noelle is fun. And because practice makes things work.

An old adage my first cello teacher taught me was this: 
If I don't practice for one day, I know it.
If I don't practice for two days, I know it and my teacher knows it. 
If I don't practice for three days, I know it, my teacher knows it, and the entire orchestra knows it. 
If I don't practice for four days, I know it, my teacher knows it, the entire orchestra knows it, and the audience knows it. 
That has always stuck with me, because it is true. Practice because it's fun and good for the soul.


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## lily cd re

Wow that was a great class! I wouldn't feel sorry for the newbies though. They are out there with their dogs giving something new a try and they will make progress if they stick with it. We all started at the beginning with the first and each subsequent dog we decided to play at learning this dance with.

I stewarded at an obedience trial on Sunday afternoon. It was an all breed trial that followed on the local Golden Retriever club specialties, so there were many more goldens than any other breed. Some were beautiful working dogs. I worked in utility B with a great judge who was really nice to all of the exhibitors. The best thing he did though was to really spend time briefing the only person entered in novice A. The utility B people are the most experienced exhibitors with the best trained and deeply experienced dogs. They are hooked, but the novice A exhibitors are the future of our sport and encouraging them before they go in the ring is really meaningful. The judge told the young woman (who is on Long Island doing an internship at a specialty vet practice) that he wasn't going to go over all the rules with her but that he thought it was meaningful to tell her about the kinds of things he has noticed over many years judging that new exhibitors tend to do right and what they tend to do wrong (and some hints on how to fix). As is the rule he then walked the heeling pattern with her and showed her where the figure 8 would be and the like. I wish I could have had a novice A briefing like the one he gave. She has a nice Terv (she has come to my club) and did a great job. She qualified and earned the CD with that run earning a nice score of 187.5. Everybody starts somewhere and gets somewhere. You and Noelle have come a long way and those newbies in your class will be following right along.


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## reraven123

lily cd re said:


> The best thing he did though was to really spend time briefing the only person entered in novice A.


I also stewarded at an obedience show recently where the judge made a point of greeting the (one) Novice A contestant and making her feel welcome. After the class he made a small speech about the importance of Novice A contestants, saying they were "the most important people" there because they were the future of the sport. 

Mine was a show for herding group dogs, so it was all Shelties, Border Collies and Aussies, two Corgis and one lone Belgian Tervuren.


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## Click-N-Treat

I did feel sorry for the newbie because she was in the wrong class and so overwhelmed. This dog needs a basic beginning CGC type class. He was jumping around, didn't know how to sit, didn't know how to heel, dragging the woman around the ring. He was a great distraction for Noelle, although I must admit, I was a little fearful at first. This was a large pit mix. He didn't show any aggression, just hyper charged excitement, but I didn't want the little dogs in our class to get hurt by his big out of control self. 

It can be intimidating to walk into a ring, see a bunch of people and dogs doing things your dog can't do. The lady looked intimidated, so I tried to be encouraging. I think the trainers recommended a beginner class after class was over. I hope to see them there next week, just two rings over in beginners. You have to start somewhere. If I brought Noelle to this class a year ago, we would have been in over our heads, too.


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## lily cd re

Well since the dog is a pit mix it is all the more important (and remarkable) that they are taking classes. Sometimes we have new people come take a novice class to assess what level they should really be in and sometimes we do put them in a beginner class. Every once in a while we will recommend some privates to get a very unruly dog settled before working in a group setting.

Novice A teams truly are the future of the sport. It is worrisome to those of us who show to see novice A classes with just one or two dogs. I know most people might not dive in the way I have, but I wish everyone would give it a try even if just taking a rally or obedience novice class. I think it is tons of fun. The people are (mostly) really great, nice and supportive. The best thing is taking your couch potato dog and showing him or her a bigger more interesting world.


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## Click-N-Treat

Now I understand why my trainers are so adamant that we trial, because we would be in Novice A. I think with all the dog sports, from agility, to tag team flyball, and fun tricks in rally, traditional obedience may seem more like work than play. Why spend hours making sure your dog can sit exactly in line with your leg when it could be running through tunnels? Could that be why less people are entering in Novice A?


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## lily cd re

Click-N-Treat said:


> Now I understand why my trainers are so adamant that we trial, because we would be in Novice A. I think with all the dog sports, from agility, to tag team flyball, and fun tricks in rally, traditional obedience may seem more like work than play. *Why spend hours making sure your dog can sit exactly in line with your leg when it could be running through tunnels? Could that be why less people are entering in Novice A?*


That is probably part of it. I also think there are people who think obedience is too much work all around and that they just want their dogs to have fun. For my experience of all of this with Lily I found that obedience work was the key to unlocking success in agility. She needed the impulse control and connected relationship with me to stay on course in agility. I suppose there are some people who don't have a problem with spending $30 to run around for a minute or two with their dog with nothing to show for it, but I want a judge to measure that our work together shows in what we do. I also think that in her wild child days Lily running amok on an agility course was Lily exploding with stress not Lily having a great time. Dogs benefit from structure and order in their lives and from being connected to their people. For me obedience makes all of that happen.


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## Click-N-Treat

Well, I can see how our training in tricks and in obedience are helping Noelle's public access work. It's all connected, all of it, and obedience is the starting line. It's not about forcing the dog to look up at me and heel. It's about teamwork. I see our practice shining through every interaction we're having.

Today in the store, Noelle heeled competition style, head up, through speed changes, while we got through a crowd. It is so darn useful. A service dog forum I am on discourages formal obedience and really runs it down as not being helpful. They could not be more wrong. Formal obedience teaches self-control. It also gives you a useful skill. Oh look, there's a toddler with an ice cream cone at nose level heading this way. Evasive maneuvers in five, four, three.

"Mary Poppins, heel!" 
Noelle backs into heel, up goes her head, looking up at me, we walk past the kid with the ice cream cone. No problems. After a few quick paces, Noelle gets yummy treats. Whee!

I call her Mary Poppins in public because to Noelle, Mary Poppins means Mom has the good stuff, and I'd better be spit spot and practically perfect in every way. And if I stranger coos "Mary Poppins," well that just makes Noelle focus more on me. Ha! Mary Poppins suits Noelle as a nickname. It's as cute as she is.


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## lily cd re

Click I couldn't agree more that real obedience is foundational to everything. It will help me get Javelin settled back down. It will keep Noelle focused on you in a sea of children with ice cream cones!

I had someone come to novice yesterday who has a very nice liver colored Doberman male, 2 years old and intact. She came in with the dog on an oversized for the dog pinch collar that didn't have enough slack on it. I had met her one time a couple of months ago. I think her work schedule floats and that is why she had such a gap between the first time she came and yesterday. She is serious though about doing competitive obedience with him but she doesn't have her dog's attention or respect. I spent some time with her alone after the other folks left and worked her dog for her. He is eager and bright. I got him to move with me nicely because before I took a step with him I played the get it get it game and a little bit of the five cookies and my cookies in two hands impulse control game. He was happy to make eye contact, figured out the impulse control game in a flash, despite some obvious frustration shown by play bows, yawns, some scratching and the like. I noted that he was frustrated not to be getting away with the staring at other dogs (Lily was nearby), not getting fed like the person at the other end of the leash was a pez dispenser and not being allowed to move if he wasn't paying attention. Later in the afternoon his owner emailed me to get information on a correct pinch collar for him and she told me she had done the games already and now understood why attention and not accepting less than the desired behavior was going to help make things better for her. And it won't just get her ready for a novice obedience title, it will get them through Petco and any other place they go together!


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## Click-N-Treat

Glad you were able to demonstrate how valuable it is to have a dog's attention, and what it takes to get it. Good job! Noelle is still a leash puller, and we are working on it. She finally has loose leash walking sorted when we go for a walk in the neighborhood. With a six foot leash, Noelle walks about 5.8 feet ahead of me. Unfortunately, this does not work in public. And frankly, I'm not a huge fan of my dog being that far ahead of me. We need to close up the gap.

With a shopping cart, she knows where to be, loose leash, to the side of the cart. Without a cart, she wants to pull ahead. So... Thinking cap time. How do I get a closer loose leash walk? Heel means something very specific, and it's not what I want. I kept her leash too tight in Walmart today to prevent pulling, but again, holding her back is not what I want, either. Also, we hadn't been to Walmart in ages, and Noelle was excited to be somewhere different. Obedience exercises like sit/stay, down/stay, about turn, worked brilliantly, so it wasn't a disaster.

Ideas for a cue that means, "Noelle, please be in the heeling zone, but not heeling with your head up, and stay with me." And more importantly, help me train this behavior! I'm at a loss. Leash pulling, ugh, Noelle, knock it off.


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## lily cd re

I use with me for general loose leash where I don't want an obedience heel. I use lots of cookies accompanied by "with me" to get across the idea that the phrase means be close enough that I can drop a zukes or two in your mouth without reaching to do so.


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## Click-N-Treat

Catherine,

I was so afraid you were going to say that. Here's what happens when I try that.

Jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way. Oh what fun it is to pull and drag you like a sled
Noelle, with me. 
Sure, here I am next to you.
Here's a treat.
Thank you, and now I'm going back to pulling you likes a sled. And, I think I was singing something, what was it? Oh yes. Jingle bells...

We inchworm along like this and Noelle really isn't getting what I want. Or, maybe she thinks pulling is what predicts the treat, so it's making her pulling worse.
HELP!


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## lily cd re

Does she do spins or twists? I know a number of people who use spins and twists to get a dog that is out of position and not thinking about what they are supposed to be doing back on track. I know you also did be a tree to get her to get with loose leash concepts, so maybe a revisit there too.


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## Click-N-Treat

She does like spin. Hm, I wonder how I could use that to my advantage. I'll have to play with that. I really think I've made pulling worse instead of better by making pulling be the start of a behavior chain. 

Pull, call her back into place, reward, walk forward, pull, back in place, reward... It's almost as if leash pulling is an expected part of our walk. I think I'm going to give spin and twist a whirl in there, sort of as a reset button. Wow this is hard work! Way harder than heel, why is that?


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## lily cd re

I don't know why it is so ridiculously hard. Lily pulls when we are off duty and Javelin often acts like we are in a race to go down halls and he insists on walking with my cart that I take to lab instead of walking with me. Yet they are both great heelers. Instead of calling Noelle back when she gets ahead of you and pulls tell her to spin and that should bring her back where she belongs if you take a step or two while she spins.


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## fjm

I think I would try being a tree, and letting her work it out for herself. For once no treats - the reward is to continue walking. I did use treats to teach "with me" when mine were pups, which was our foundation for loose leash walking, but mostly pulling meant everything simply stopped, or went into reverse. Once I had their attention back and the leash was loose we would try again. Noelle is so attuned to you that I don't think it would take her long to work it out, but perhaps a new harness with a different feel that you use at first just on walks when you have time to spend half an hour going a few hundred yards would help!


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## Click-N-Treat

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Noelle is the most context specific dog I have ever trained. I swear, if I trained her to heel while I was wearing blue jeans and a sweatshirt, she would only heel while I was wearing blue jeans and a sweatshirt. If I was wearing shorts, she would have no idea what I wanted. Noelle pays too much attention, gathering in what I want her to learn and odd bits that she should be ignoring, simultaneously. 

When we walk around our block, there is a driveway where Noelle will heads up heel every single time we get there, and will continue to heads up heel past two houses and two more driveways, then shrug, and race to the end of her leash. Why? I have no idea. Maybe a year ago we worked on heeling on that exact sidewalk square and she learned the context along with the behavior. This is the place where I heel like this, see?

Noelle appears to be learning far more than I am teaching. I reprimanded her by the fish counter at our local store 10 months ago. Every time we walk by the fish counter, her ears droop and her tail droops. "This is the mom is angry place." In the cosmetics aisle, heads up heel. "This is the heeling place." Training a dog who notices the most subtle, obscure, environmental differences is rough. Dogs don't generalize well as it is, now add a preternatural ability to notice bloody everything, and it's a wonder Noelle can sit on cue. 

When the weather warms up, I will take her to my six favorite forest preserve trails and specifically work on loose leash walking on the trails. I want Noelle to think forest preserve trails are all loose leash walking spots. That would be funny, a chance to use her context specific learning style to my advantage.

Her context specific learning style is a huge boon in the training ring. It's not the order of the activities in the ring that she's paying attention to, thank goodness. But, the list of things we do. Heeling time, figure eight time, boring stay time, stand for exam time, recall time. She knows each exercise and enjoys demonstrating them. 

I'm going to keep working on loose leash walking. Be a tree, about turns. Sometimes it takes a long time for the light bulb to go off in Noelle's head. I'll have to be patient.


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## fjm

I should perhaps add that while Sophy is very good about keeping the leash loose she is quite definite about preferring to walk ahead of me whenever possible (a sensible position for such a small dog), and reckons that if I stop when she pulls it is only fair that she should stop if I pull. Even if we are in the middle of the road, or a bicycle is coming, or whatever. 

Very interesting that Noelle is so hyper-specific in her response to cues. Do you think it is innate, or to do with training style, or her training as an alert dog? Or perhaps all three?


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## Skylar

I have tried all kinds of methods according to different teachers that I had. The one where you turn circles and go any direction other than the one they want to go got me so dizzy that I gave up loose leash training for a long time out of frustration - and being dizzy is not a good feeling.

Now I do a variation of "be a tree" that seems to be working. When Babykins pulls, I stop moving - she has to then turn around and get back near a heel position - not the obedience heel position, but close before we start moving again. No food treats - the reward is going where she wants to go. I added the get back into a heel position because I felt it helped orientate her back to me at least temporarily and away from all the distractions that were pulling her forward.

It's a work in progress because I'm not consistent - my bad. When we walk with friends, I let her pull all the time because I don't want to stop the conversation with my friends to train her. I think when the weather is nice, I'll take her to the park alone and work on loose leash walking and hope that will translate to walking like that when I'm with friends.


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## Click-N-Treat

FJM,

I think this issue is a Noelle thing. She reminds me very much of a gifted human child. She learns extremely fast, but gathers in everything around it as well. Loves to learn, is hungry to learn, doesn't miss anything, notices subtle things others miss, is sensitive and perceptive... It's amazing. Which is why she is wonderful/awful to train. I will have to take her learning style under consideration when we train. 

Skylar,

Be a tree, turn in circles, the silky leash game and penalty yards, one step=1 treat. Sigh. So many techniques to teach the same thing. I think penalty yards helps a little, but then again, Noelle is context specific in the extreme, so creating a place called "start" and walking forward toward a desired ending, like a pile of treats, would teach her to loose leash walk from one sidewalk square to another, one tree to another. Noelle, you're a puzzle to train, friend. I hope Babykins doesn't give you as much trouble.


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## Skylar

There are days. The thing is everyone tells me what a beautifully trained dog she is and how well behaved she is. She does some things great - always sits and waits at a door for the release word to go through the doorway and she will sit and patiently wait as another dog passes us that possibly looks reactive or problematic while she hopes she is allowed to greet a friendly dog. But the loose leash walking without ANY pulling in public places eludes us. It's a work in progress. And it's my fault because often it's just easier to keep going - after we want to go where we are going too and don't want to take the time to "be a tree".

And like Noelle - Babykins remembers things - she's very sensitive and I have to be very cognizant of that with training. But like Noelle, she is a sweetheart and we love her.


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## lily cd re

It took me almost 20 minutes to make the 3-5 minute walk from the parking lot to my building with Javelin in Monday because he was not just pulling but bouncing. One step, leap in the air, "Javelin off, Javelin lie down, Javelin sit, let's go Javvy." Lather rinse and repeat, repeat, repeat, but beautiful heeling. Go figure. Skylar I agree sometimes it is just easier to keep going and there are days when I don't have twenty minutes to traverse a five minute distance.


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle has done that bounding style walk. Oh I hate that! Yes, sometimes it is easier to just go for a walk instead of taking the time to practice and practice. Today instead of holding Noelle tight, I kind of let her practice loose leash and she did a better job. Of course, today she also played fetch until her tongue was hanging out of her mouth sideways. I got rid of some of the excess energy first, then we walked. It's a work in progress. A very long work in progress.


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## Click-N-Treat

Back from training class. Stand for exam went perfectly. Sit and down stays were perfect. Heeling, she loves heeling. I need to figure out how to record her heel, because it's getting really sweet. 

Problems: recall, bonk, of course. And lagging on the right side of the figure eight. Any ideas how to help her stay in heel as we make our right circle? I kinda lose her in the middle. She needs to speed up to stay with me. A little help here would be nice. Okay a lot of help. Help!


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## Skylar

Click-N-Treat said:


> Back from training class. Stand for exam went perfectly. Sit and down stays were perfect. Heeling, she loves heeling. I need to figure out how to record her heel, because it's getting really sweet.
> 
> Problems: recall, bonk, of course. And lagging on the right side of the figure eight. Any ideas how to help her stay in heel as we make our right circle? I kinda lose her in the middle. She needs to speed up to stay with me. A little help here would be nice. Okay a lot of help. Help!


I presume you mean when you're going around the person and Noelle is on the outside? First she has to be speeding up *before *you enter the circle, not starting to speed up after you start the turn.

I struggled with this too and what I found most helpful is the following:

As you are walking through the straight section and about to start the circle, throw a small treat a short distance towards the direction you are going - let her run to get the food and as soon as see gets it, call her to heel and give her a treat when she's in proper heel position - even if you have to use your right hand to encourage her into position. Only do this once or twice because you want to get her speeding up, but not running out in a weird way.

Also Babykins watches my hands/arms/shoulders - when I'm starting into the circle they naturally move forward as I move into the circle. When I'm walking the other side of the figure eight and she is in the inside, my hands/arms/shoulders move back which lets her know where to be in heel position.


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## Click-N-Treat

Yes, she is lagging about halfway around the turn. I'll try tossing a treat to get her to move a little faster. Thanks, Skylar!


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## lily cd re

You can also use your shoulders as cues in practice (just don't obviously do this in a trial). When Noelle is going to be on the outside lean a bit towards your right and pull your left shoulder forward. If you ever have a forge when a dog is on the inside you will lean slightly towards your left and push your left shoulder back a little bit.


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## Click-N-Treat

I actually went to class yesterday. Noelle was all over the place and had a hard time focusing. The trainer ran up to me and asked what was wrong because Noelle was not acting like herself. I told my trainer that my dad died the night before. She asked, WHY ARE YOU HERE?

The truth was, I needed to be somewhere other than crying in my bedroom. I needed to focus on something else. So, I went to class. We had some success with figure eight. I walked slow around the left side and fast around the right. We'll continue exaggerating speed for a while, so Noelle gets the idea that she'll have to go quicker around the right side so she does not lag. 

We had a new trainer who was just awesome. Polishing the little things we were doing wrong. She is a former apricot poodle breeder too, and kept calling Noelle Poodie throughout class, which was cute. I had a good time, for the most part. 

I need to consider my posture and how I move, which is rough with MG. My body tends to lurch in unexpected ways because my brain and muscles don't sync well. I used a powerchair for mobility for 10 years and only started walking again a few years ago. I have a difficult time maintaining my posture and pace without lurching. 

In a trial, it's only a few minutes in the ring. In class, I'm on my feet for an hour. And I notice I get tired. I've been watching YouTube videos of NOC winners and paying close attention to how the handlers move. What they do with their hands, arms, shoulders, feet. It's helping me get a mental image of what I want to do. Honestly, Noelle can do anything. Noelle is not the problem. The problem is I'm uncoordinated. I think I need to practice without my dog. Does that make sense?


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## LizzysMom

I'm glad you went. Sometimes the only way to cope is to simply not allow yourself to think about it for a while. Nice that you were able to have a good class. 

Noelle looks lovely, as usual. But, it looks like you have TWO poodles - the one in your avatar and one as your signature pic!


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## fjm

Could you perhaps practice both? Work by yourself so that the few minutes in the ring become as automatic as possible (although I imagine MG plays havoc with muscle memory), but also work with Noelle to teach her to pay more attention to spoken cues than to "lurches". 

Holding you in my thoughts - grief is an inevitable part of losing those we love, but so painful and exhausting.


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## lily cd re

I totally understand why you went to class. I would have also done so.

Practicing by yourself makes tons of sense. I do it to clean up my foot work. A friend of mine came to my club Friday and had me call heeling patterns for her without her dog since she is always looking for him and makes him lag. After 3 or 4 times by herself she then got her dog.

Since you've been watching NOC folks you have probably seen Betsy Scapicchio and Linda Brennan. They are the people who ran the two workshops I did last August. There is no one better to watch than those two teams. Linda has also won at Westminster obedience. My trainer goes to Linda for her privates and I often take Lily and Javelin to matches at Betsy's facility. Actually if you thought you would be up for the trip to New Jersey you should go to their intermediate workshop next year. I have talked to Skylar about going there too. Anyone who is really wanting to compete in obedience should try to workshop with them. Top Dog Obedience School


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## galofpink

I'm glad that you could still make it through and have a good class, especially since Noelle is so in-tune with you. Often we need a quick escape when we are dealing with hard things. Hope you continue to experience success and train through your heartbreak.


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## Streetcar

I too have used work as a viable refuge during grief.

Sending you peace and comfort in this time, dear Click-N-Treat. I'm so sorry for the loss of your papa, and wish you every blessing possible. Noelle is exactly one of those.


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## Click-N-Treat

We have a new trainer in our class, a former poodle breeder, which is cool, because she says, "Well, she's a poodle!" when Noelle does something silly, or jumps around like her legs are made of springs. 

Last night at training class, we did something new. Half the dogs in the class sat in the center of the ring, and half the dogs heeled around the ring past the distraction dogs. Now, Noelle has a heads up heel and didn't notice the dogs in the center. What was odd was what happened when it was our turn to be the distraction dogs. 

When the other dogs walked by, Noelle freaked out. She wouldn't eat treats, wouldn't sit, wouldn't look at me, and was so confused and weirded out by being in the middle of the ring. I thought that would be the easy part, but Noelle was stressed out. I felt awful for her.

Our new trainer doesn't structure every class the same each week. Noelle got used to the pattern in class. First we heel around the ring. Then we do figure eights. Then we do stand for exam. Then we do sit stay for 3 minutes. Down stay for 5 minutes. Then we do recalls. Then we go home.

That is no longer the case and Noelle is upset and so confused. She spits out treats, a sign that she is extremely stressed. She scratches her ear, another sign of stress. She avoids looking at me and I can't get her attention. Another sign of stress. I've said it a thousand times, Noelle is the most context specific dog I have ever trained. She looks for patterns, learns patterns, and follows patterns, but now class is no longer structured in any way that makes sense to either of us.

Our new trainer has an encyclopedia of dog obedience knowledge. What she doesn't have is good teaching skills. She gives fast instructions that are confusing and I can't make sense of what is happening at all. I lost my mojo because I don't have any clue what exercise is coming next. When I lost my mojo, Noelle lost hers. The new trainer talks too fast and I can't always understand what she is saying. Her instructions aren't clear to me so I feel... How can I explain? I feel like I'm playing Stravinsky's the Rite of Spring again. 

If you've never heard it, a lot of that piece of music is syncopated nonsense and extremely difficult for the musicians. Stravinsky wanted the musicians to feel frantic so the music would sound frantic. It's full of rhythm patterns that make no sense. Counting in five, in seven, in four, in three, in nine. Constantly counting, constantly frantic and stressed in rehearsal and performance. 






Scroll over to 29:46 in the recording to hear the entire orchestra play 11 quarter notes together. It's one measure in 11/4. 11 notes in the measure, the quarter note gets the beat. Count the beats with the orchestra. If you play 12 notes you will be alone, so you have to get it perfect. Craziest thing I have ever played in an orchestra. Play about 30 seconds after that 11/4 bar and that is exactly how I feel in class. Completely in over my head and I don't know what I'm doing. 

HELP! What do I do? I'm so lost and Noelle is even more lost than me. I don't even know how to hold my leash properly. Something about the loop and the right hand and the pinkie finger? No demonstration, just words, and OK, let's go on to the next thing. Wait, what? Loop what where? I feel like I'm stuck in the Rite of Spring. Help!


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## Vita

I knew I'd heard that piece many times before and googled, and wah-lah! Fantasia! We had the whole collection of Disney videos; my kids watched that one countless times growing up. 

In this YouTube clip, maybe the T-Rex is how Noelle and you feel about the trainer's teaching techniques, as in, _Runnnnn!_


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## fjm

I think this underlines what we all know - someone may be the world's greatest expert, but that doesn't mean they can teach! Could you try mixing things up at home, with a little finger flick or other gesture to show "Now for something completely different"? And ask the instructor, calmly and quietly, to demonstrate what she means, after the class if necessary. But it is all a salutory reminder of how confused and overwhelmed our dogs must feel much of the time, with new situations and incomprehensible information and commands coming at them from all directions.


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## lily cd re

I agree with fjm to ask the instructor to demonstrate clearly what she means about how to hold the leash and the like. For myself I would most appreciate it if a student asked me something along those lines just before the actual start of the next class. But also as long as you are holding your leash in accord with AKC rules it doesn't actually matter how you hold it if it works for you and Noelle--left hand, right hand, loop end in your right hand and left hand on the length of the leash somewhere is all okay.

Now for the bigger issue which is the change ups on the order of things and reorganizing the heeling exercise. You need to work through what was happening last night. I commonly, but don't always do the novice exercises in the order they occur in a trial and virtually never do the A orders for open and utility. I also put fuzz, chalk marks and painter's tape on the floor. I put out dog toys on the floor. I do heeling warm ups in a way that makes people and dogs do halts next to each other and often facing in the opposite direction from each other, people next to each other, dogs next to each other is all for the good. All of this tells handlers what their dogs really know and what happened showed you that Noelle understands heeling and focused attention in a clean and predictable environment but not a messy weird one. So now you have to make everything somewhat messy and weird to help Noelle take it to the next level. Once she thinks stuff like this week's class is all no big deal then you are really truly ready to trial.

This reminds me of an exercise Lily and I played with at an Ian Dunbar workshop. There were the better part of 50 dogs in the room and more people than that. The purpose of the game was to see if the dog really knew in all conditions what sit meant. Ian took Lily's leash and I walked away with my back to her and without looking at her said "Lily Sit!" The way I would know if she sat was hearing Ian say good dog. I heard nothing the first, second or even third times I told her to sit, but eventually she did. We did all sorts of versions of this including eventually me laying on the floor with her behind my head. She caught on and now she has a much more comprehensive understanding of the word sit. I do the same things with Javelin using a mirror on the wall at my trainer's facility to see that he is doing what I am telling him even if I am not looking at him.

You will be just fine.


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## Skylar

Click - I actually think this new teacher may be better than your last. 

Yes, definitely speak up and ask for clarification if you don't understand what she says - even ask her to demonstrate if her words are not clear. This is a major flaw in your teacher if she can't communicate clearly.

Why I think she is a better teacher is you don't want the predictable routine - you need to proof what you have learned. If you repeat the routine over and over and over again then Noelle may "anticipate" and perform before the judge tells you to do something. I see many dogs who, on the recall exercise, will run into front position when the Judge tells the handler to call their dog - before the handler calls the dog to come front. In our class we rarely perform the exercises in the order they would be in novice or beginner novice. In fact we often perform rally type exercises to encourage good heeling under lots of different patterns, calling the dog front from all kinds of angles and having the dog come sit at heel from weird positions. We practice for example almost walking into the gates or walls before turning around or right and left because some judges will do that in the ring - some will do it on purpose to test you and sometimes they just lost concentration or you walked faster than they anticipated and all of a sudden your about it hit the gate with your dog - better to get your dog used to it in class so they won't be scared and bolt if it happens in a competition.

At home on the floor, I have toys, dumbbell (in rally she has to heel past her dumbbell and ignore it and then when we hit the dumbbell exercise, then I send her out to take it), dog bowls (both empty and filled with food) as we practice. In class they have pulled out some really fun and weird things. We've done the figure 8 heeling around very large stuffed animals including a toddler's pink rocking horse. We've done recall where the space to get to us was littered with all kinds of stuffed toys, bowls of water, balls - everything that our trainer thought would distract dogs (only one dog went through didn't stop, Babykins had to check out the stuffed animals, another dog drank water and one ran away with the ball and zoomed). Tape and chalk marks are not unusual either - and you'll find them in competition when they need to mark how far away you are to stand when you send your dog out. I've also done things like we leave our dogs in stay position near the gate while we stand as a post for the figure 8 - everyone in the class did this so there were several dogs in sitting and watching dogs being heeled in figure 8. There is no end to the creativity of "proofing" that I've seen. And you never know - my trainer with her 8 year old dog working on their utility title - was talking about proofing and was showing us sometime silly with her dog that she assumed her dog would ignore - well her well trained dog was thrown off by something silly that he had never seen before. So this is just like Catherine with Lily at Ian Dunbar's seminar - you think your dog knows something until you asked them to do it under new circumstances - and you're shocked when they don't perform. Plus I find these classes are more fun and more challenging.

I think once you get used to the "non-pattern" of the class you'll not only be fine, but you'll be better prepared both for competition - but maybe it will help Noelle as a Diabetic Alert Dog? I hope you find it fun too.


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## Click-N-Treat

It's not so much the distractions. Noelle is a service dog, she's used to working around high levels of distractions and paying attention anyway. Shopping carts, kids running, other service dogs, distractions don't really upset her. The problem is the teacher is confusing me, which is leading to Noelle being confused. The instructions are difficult to hear and spoken too quickly. And since there isn't a plan where I can guess what is coming next, I'm feeling lost. 

I'll be back next week and I'll ask the teacher to show me exactly how she wants us to hold the leash. Today after chemo, I put Noelle on a small table and we worked on her kickback stand from a down. It's coming along nicely. We learned new hand signals in class, too and she's picking up on those.

A few things did go very well in class. One exercise the trainers told us to put our dogs on a down/stay. Then the trainers came over and asked each dog to sit. They were supposed to stay put, and Noelle stayed both times. She got through stand for exam and only moved her front feet a few inches. We've come very far from where we started. We are getting our dogs ready for off leash heeling by putting our leashes over our shoulder, or in our pocket. I heel off leash with Noelle through my house a lot, so she's really good at it. We like heeling best, I think. 

We will keep going to class, of course. I do like that my new trainer understands poodles and is very happy to give poodle specific tips. She's knowledgeable and can be helpful, when she slows down enough to teach.


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## lily cd re

I get it, but still agree with Skylar that mixing things up so neither of you can anticipate is going to prove to be really useful. When Lily and I were in Open (A order) she NQ'd a few otherwise nice routines because she got stressed out and decided she would finish things off on her own by sending herself over the broad jump (which she wouldn't have done if she hadn't memorized that it was the last thing to do).

Having a dog that loves to heel is a real treasure. Heads up attentive heeling is a beauty to watch and it is the key to keeping connected so your dog stays happy and confident for each exercise and also really importantly in between exercises.

I am sure you will do just fine once you and this new trainer get used to each other and you have a chance to see some patterns in the apparent lack of pattern. I also never thought for a second that you were going to fold up your tent.


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## Skylar

I do agree no trainer is ideal - they all have flaws. I train at two different clubs and all the trainers are volunteers who do it out of the love of the sport and they do get a few perks such as taking a free class for each class they teach and access to easier use of the building when no classes are held for practice. I've had quite a few teachers and some have been better than others - but all of them have been good and I've learned something in each class.

I'm one of those people who don't follow direction well - I do not know my right from my left and it's a constant stress for me in class so I have to pay extra special attention so I don't end up turning right when everyone turns left and bopping someone in the process. In competition the judge will call out your heel pattern - and when they say left, they expect you to turn left. And it won't necessarily be the pattern you practice in class. I have gotten better at turning left when the teacher announces left, and turning right on the right hand. Actually what I have gotten better is dealing with my cues that I use for right and left discrimination - most people don't give it any thought, they just turn but I have to think which hand I prefer to write with. I mention prefer because I'm ambidextrous and can write with my left - but I write better with my right because in school you had to write with your right. Anyhow class has helped me hone these clues so they become a more automatic response. I also struggled with which way to enter a serpentine and weave poles in agility for my dog - things that are automatic for most people and they don't even realize some of us struggle with it. Frankly these classes are training me - Babykins just follows along.

Don't be afraid to tell the teacher what you need. I'm shy (introverted and quiet) and don't want to call attention to myself in class, but I've learned that sometimes I need to speak up. I have great hearing, but I don't discriminate well the sounds that I hear. When I'm tested for what "sound" I hear - I'm off the scale - but just because you can hear a sound doesn't mean your brain has translated those sounds into speech that you understand - so I also lip read. If someone's head is turned away from me I don't always understand what they say. I still remember when my first baby was born, at her first check up the doctor was talking a lot when examining her - with his back turned. I sort of got the gist of what he was saying - she was healthy. But when I went back for the second appointment he said I did a fantastic job of exercising her feet and now they were straight - OMG. I was confused - he then explained how her feet were too turned in and I was supposed to do these exercises with her feet to slowly turn their straight. That was a serious thing to miss - I learned my lesson - if it's important, make sure you understand - speak up if needed.

And you do get used to it as Catherine points out. When you get used to it, Noelle will too. In the real world, when you're out with Noelle - you know where you are going, where you will take your next step. Maybe you'll step to the right to avoid a fallen box on floor, or you'll walk a diagonal across the store because it's the easiest route to your goal - you're making these choices so everything flows smooth. But you never know, you might be walking and someone comes up and starts to shout at you to move to the right to avoid poop on the floor - you'll be prepared because in class someone was giving you directions.


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## Click-N-Treat

No order is much better. I agree. I think Noelle is struggling because I feel like the teacher is moving class too fast and I'm confused as to how the next exercise is supposed to be done. I spend half the class going, what? It's a different style of teaching, and I am sure I'll catch on. 

We did an exercise where we were to look straight ahead, give no hand signals, no gestures whatsoever, and say, "Down." Only one dog in the class went down on the first command. Guess who! Our Noelle! And it was a rapid fold from a stand, too! Whoo!

Both my husband and I love asking our dogs to sit or down when we are in the weirdest positions. The best ever was when my husband called SIT from down the chimney. Both dogs sat. Does sit mean sit if I'm lying down with my legs on the wall? Does down mean down if I'm looking out the window? I enjoy this challenge. 

This week we're going to work super hard on getting a kickback stand. I want Noelle to have a beautiful kick back stand from a down or a sit. And of course I want a rock solid stay. We've made great progress, and will continue making good progress even with this new teacher. But, I'll be extra kind to Noelle next week knowing she's a little confused.


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## Click-N-Treat

Skylar,

Yes, I fully agree, I need the training, Noelle is fine. There's a lot of coordination that I need to practice and none of it feels natural yet. Hearing and understanding what you hear are two different things. It's also loud in my club and there are several other rings with stuff going on, and that's not helping. 

We have to zigzag through obstacles in public all the time, and the unexpected is constantly happening, so Noelle really doesn't flip her lid at distractions. Heeling around a group of dogs, no problem. Being in the center of the ring doing nothing but watch other dogs heel? My goodness that was a problem. She just freaked for some reason. If we do that again, I'll do my best to reassure her that she'd just fine hanging out with me. Then again, we could do the same thing next week and Noelle won't mind a bit. Still, I'll make sure to position us where we're facing a wall rather than all the other rings and the heeling dogs. Maybe it was a dog in a different ring giving her the stink eye and I didn't notice.

Ah well, it's still fun, even if sometimes I feel clumsy and uncoordinated.


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## Skylar

I completely understand positioning your dog away from problem dogs - I do that too.


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## Click-N-Treat

What a difference a week makes! So, we're back from class. It was much better. Karen, our new trainer, who is a former poodle breeder, had some fun showing me how to tweak Noelle's continental clip. But, she really likes the HCC on Noelle. We both agreed that clip totally suits Noelle. Funny, I've tried lamb trims, a modern, a Scandinavian, and a Miami, and finally got adventurous with the HCC and, pow! That was Noelle's look. Neat to have an apricot poodle breeder let me know that, yup, it's the right clip for Noelle. 

So, class started with heeling and Noelle focused instantly. One of those, who is this dog and what have you done with Noelle, days. My slow was too fast, so I slowed it down even more. Noelle stayed with me and we had fun together.

We worked on kickback stands. Noelle moved her front feet ever so slightly, but her stand is looking better. We'll keep practicing. For some reason, and I have no idea why, Noelle has a limited idea on what stand means.

After sit stay and down stay, we did some turns in place. I practice turns in place with Noelle all the darn time, so she nailed those things and made me proud. 

Then we simulated heeling off leash by stuffing our leashes in our pockets. More heeling, so Noelle was darn happy. She likes heeling. 

After doing short recalls, we played a very fun game where we tried to trick our dogs. Noelle was in a sit/wait. In the same tone of voice, we were to call out our dog's names and then the name of a fruit instead of come. Noelle, apple! Noelle, pear! Some dogs broke and came running. Oops. Noelle never broke her wait. It was fun. Noelle, banana! Noelle, apple! Noelle, come! Zoom, here she comes. And the dogs were just loved at the end and not asked for a sit. 

Well, that was a fun class. Noelle enjoyed it, too. Whew! 

This week I'm going to the hardware store and making a frame from PVC pipe. Three sided and just barely wide enough for Noelle to sit in it. Sit in front is making very little sense to her so I think a frame would help. Also, I think that would be helpful for the kickback stand. It sounds like AKC judges are getting picky about that. Karen told us some judges draw a line in chalk and expect the dog's feet to not cross it. Some judges only want the back legs to move. Some judges don't care as long as there's no forward motion. The kickback is the best idea, and Noelle does a kickback stand but she twitches her front feet an inch or so.

Karen, the new trainer, stopped me on the way out and told me she was impressed with Noelle's progress. It was funny because the past week Noelle was far more interested in playing with her toy fox than she was in training. We'd do some work and then Noelle ran off to play with her fox. Our training sessions were only five minutes or so every day. I may have to hide the fox so we can practice. All in all it was a good week.


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## fjm

Perhaps Noelle was so impressively good _because_ you trained in small bites, with Mr Fox letting it all sink in? I would be tempted to stick with him, if it works!


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## lily cd re

I am so glad that you were happy with last night's class! I had a feeling that once you got a sense of how things were going to work it would be wonderful for you and Noelle. We do proofs like the silly words all of the time. We also have "judges" give orders two or more times before giving our dogs the order. Another thing for heeling is to lift your left foot as though you are going to take off and then just put your foot down and stand still. All of those things will help deal with anticipation of orders and impulse control.

The pvc framed front box is going to be really helpful not just to prevent forward creep on stands but also later on will help you get straight fronts on your broad jump recall in open. I am using one now for Javelin with the broad jump where he over rotates his back end a little bit as he comes in. Since it is my goal to have him be a top placing dog I want perfectly straight fronts for everything. I will also use that front box for recalls and utility jumps.

Play breaks and a drink of water can both be really useful ways to keep the work crisp and fun. I usually have either a tug or some other toy on my person while I train. Both Lily and Javelin tug and Lily has a little woolly ball that she loves but that I reserve for training breaks to keep its use very special to her.


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## Click-N-Treat

Okay, I'll keep Mr. Fox in the training. We located some old PVC pipe in the garage and I'll grab some elbows at the hardware store. I think a box that is barely wide enough to sit inside will be a huge help. Hopefully it helps Noelle learn not to tag me as she runs into the box to sit. Maybe I'll stay a step back from the box and come over and reward. We'll see how that works. 

We practiced kickback stands on a small table where if she didn't do a kickback stand, she would fall off. I noticed that helped in class. Her front feet barely moved. I want to get to the point where her front feet are glued to the ground.

We will be, gasp, actually heeling our dogs off leash in the ring in a few weeks. I'm wondering how that will go. Noelle does a really good job with simulated off leash heel, but we will see how it works in reality.


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## lily cd re

I only heel off leash in matches for the most part. Otherwise I use a very light slip lead tucked into my left pocket or I use a heeling lead (basically an overgrown leash tab). If you have great heeling on lead though you are likely to have awesome off lead heeling. More dogs than not do better off lead heeling than on lead heeling.


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## Click-N-Treat

We mostly off lead heel in the house during practice, so the leash makes no difference at all. My only concern is it turning into a crazy dog free-for-all if we take leashes off in class. Well, I'll find out when we round the corner by the opening whether Noelle makes a break for it. Then again, that would be a funny story, and Noelle would not be the only dog to do ever that, of course. 

Dumb question, but what is a heeling lead?


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## lily cd re

Click, I'll take pictures of my heeling leads when I get home later. Mine are braided and have a clip for the collar. They do not have loops on them and are pretty short and light.


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## lily cd re

*heeling leads*

Heeling leads are generally short and very light weight. These are my two nicest ones. The red one is just under 30" long and the blue one is about 18". What is nice about them is that you don't end up with a huge amount of extra leash balled up in your hand.


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## Click-N-Treat

Ah, okay, I see. I bet they simulate the feeling of being off leash better than my heavy leather leash. But, you can still correct the dog as needed. Thanks!


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## lily cd re

Click-N-Treat said:


> Ah, okay, I see. I bet *they simulate the feeling of being off leash* better than my heavy leather leash. But, you can still correct the dog as needed. Thanks!



That's the ticket!


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## Skylar

I'm glad you are now enjoying the class.

I never heard of that fun game of calling fruit instead of "come". I tried that with Babykins today. OMG how funny to see her reaction. Each time she got up and took one step and then stopped - she was clearly confused. Then when I called front or come she came running as she is supposed to. So clearly she is listening to my "command" and responding to my command. But she was also anticipating because she did take one step each time. I called fruit names a few times then did a real recall. The second time I did it, she didn't move until I called front or come. I have seen other dogs take off when the judge would say "call your dog" and I've seen trainers do a few things to break dogs of this anticipation problem. I'm going to continue using the fruit recall exercise sometimes just to keep Babykins sharp.

Oh and I just made Babykins a leash from a thin material I bought at Joann's fabric that looks like shoe lace material and a small latch - so when I heel she doesn't feel the leash but I have it on her in case I need it. I didn't know you could buy something like Catherine;s.


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## Click-N-Treat

I proofed Noelle's stay with the fruit game when she was a puppy. So, she learned pretty fast the only word that means get up is my release word. But, tying it to recall just seemed like such funny trick to play on a dog. 

Noelle was having a hard time in class because whe the trainer said Stand, Noelle would stand. It was clear Noelle was listening to Karen. I can see how anticipating could get Noelle in trouble.


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## Click-N-Treat

I made our frame out of PVC pipe. Noelle is getting the idea that she should sit inside it. I had her on one side of the house, asked for a wait, went to the other side of the house, stood in front of the frame.

Noelle, come!

Skittering poodle feet on tile floor, hardwood, tile, tile, into the frame and sit. Noelle did not bounce off of me. Whoo hoo. That was a huge help and we will practice recalls with our frame for a long time.


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## Click-N-Treat

Class last night was fun, fun, more fun and even more fun. Heel around the ring, lots of energy and focus. Whee! Figure eight, Noelle did so well the trainer used us as a demo for how to do it for another student. That was awesome. Lots of drive on the figure eight and good energy. 

We did the back to back style sit stay/down stay. Noelle doesn't mind having dogs behind her and just stayed put. The novice group sit stay is on leash for one minute now. All the dogs in our class were thinking, that's it? Ditto with the down stay, which is only a minute. That's it? Noelle was a statue and didn't move. 

Later in class we did a down/stay walk all the way around the ring. I had Noelle on the ring side that had open class going on at the same time. Noelle was positioned next to the broad jump on the other side of the ring. Couldn't have been a more distracting position if I tired. Noelle, down, stay. I dropped my leash and walked all the way around the ring. A doberman was leaping over the broad jump next to her. And Noelle did not move. Wow!

Stand for exam turned into stand for... oh it's you, I love you, sit. Uh oh. I corrected her and she got it right the second time. So, I know we need to practice that. Stay, you silly girl. 

Recalls. Remember how we've been working with a frame? Noelle came flying at her usual 600 miles an hour, skittered slower and sat in front. Whoopee! She did that four times out of five. Yay! Good girl. Between turns at recall, I even had Noelle do some off leash heeling in line and she didn't wander away. I even got heads up, eye contact heeling off leash with dogs and people in line. And then she wanted to sniff stuff, so I clipped the leash back on. Still, I was really happy with Noelle. 

That was really awesome. We're having a fun match in April and Noelle and I are going to give it a whirl. Wish us luck!


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## lily cd re

I am so glad that you have clicked with the style of the new instructor (who sounds like she does a lot of things the way I do them). You will find the fun match to be very revealing of what Noelle really thinks about all of the exercises. You are lucky Noelle doesn't mind having dogs behind her for those groups. I have had to do some work with Javelin to get him to be okay with it, but he is getting there.

Think about using your pvc front box for your stand for exam. Since she understands that in the box means stay still in the box she may lose some of her "I love you judge" wigglies if she knows to stand in the box.


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## Skylar

I'm also glad you have discovered that you are having fun with this new teacher. Noelle is amazing.


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## Click-N-Treat

My big issue now is her level of excitement before class. She's just everywhere and not able to focus on me for longer than two seconds. She's tap dancing all over the place. Meanwhile, lots of other dogs are chilling on mats and quiet in crates, or sitting by their handler. Not Noelle. What's Noelle like before class?

Um, remember this scene in Men In Black?





Yeah, I'm Will Smith in this scene. Ideas on how to calm down a super ball?


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## Skylar

Click-N-Treat said:


> My big issue now is her level of excitement before class. She's just everywhere and not able to focus on me for longer than two seconds. She's tap dancing all over the place. Meanwhile, lots of other dogs are chilling on mats and quiet in crates, or sitting by their handler. Not Noelle. What's Noelle like before class?
> 
> Um, remember this scene in Men In Black?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II4UebN1Dxw
> 
> Yeah, I'm Will Smith in this scene. Ideas on how to calm down a super ball?


Haha. Babykins is the same. She’s so interested in know what dogs and people are there. I work on focus games with her for part of the time. I often stick her in a crate with a few treats while I go to the bathroom. I put her water bowl in the crate with her so if she’s thirsty she has her own water and no one is going to trip over and spill it. We have a little routine. But yes I look enviously of those people who’s dog just lays down in front of them quietly and waits. I’ve tried training it but I think she’s too nervous laying down there. The area isn’t large in either club and people and dogs are coming and going so there is a risk of getting stepped on or a rude dog being obnoxious. And it seems it’s mostly older larger dogs that are laying quietly.


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## lily cd re

Most of my local training friends and I will do warm ups outside the ring before we do a routine/run thru or a class. For Lily and Javelin I do what I generally call "rally in a box." We do the five cookie attention game and we do fronts and finishes (both ways), pivots, about turns, small circles and the like all in a 3' or smaller square space. I started doing this at trials that had crowded crating space and have found it to be useful ever since. If I have more room I do short runs of heeling with lots of about turns and quick halts. I might also do signals at short range, glove pivots and stand stays with Lily (not Javelin yet). It took a long time to get good attention in those hectic circumstances, but once I got it with Lily it stuck. Javelin can still be very distracted depending on the other dogs that are around, but he will get there.


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## Click-N-Treat

It's pretty embarrassing to have the only dog who is bouncing and unable to do much else than strain on the leash and sniff the floor. She's just so excited. I liken it to taking an eight-year-old to Disneyland and then insisting the kid works on fractions. 

Maybe we'll try arriving closer to class start time and I'll bring higher value rewards for outside of the ring. I have to remember Noelle learns routines and patterns and if I don't provide structure, she just does her own thing. We need to have a we have arrived at school and when we get to school, we do _______, _________, and ________. Same routine on arrival every singe time. 

I'll try the five cookie game and some other attention stuff. We'll see how it goes. 

Today we worked on stand, square sits in front and at heel and recalls with the frame. We just keep going up and up and up.


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## Click-N-Treat

Well, today was much better. We played fetch in the yard for about 15 minutes before class. The ball kept rolling in dry leaves and sticks. Noelle would grab the ball, and then freak out. She spit out the ball, then her tongue was flapping and spitting out leaves. Noelle's expression said, "bleh!" Then she brought the ball back. Throw, chase, grab, stop, dramatic interlude, grab, return, was just hilarious. It also drained a lot of the crazy off of Noelle before class.

I brought high value treats to help Noelle focus before class. Between playing ball, coming to class later, and the treats, Noelle was much better this week. We went in the ring and heeled around with lots of energy and fun. But, her figure eight was lag city. Huh, odd. Stand for exam, Noelle unfolded from a sit into a beautiful kickback stand. She maintained her stand while the trainer touched her, and did not move until I returned. Very happy with this. 

Sit stay, and down stay, back to back style was easy. Then we did recalls. I unhooked Noelle's leash. I told Noelle to wait. I walked away from her, and turned around, "Noelle, come!" And boom! Noelle sprinted toward me like Usain Bolt wearing rocket shoes. Full speed ahead, here she comes straight to me, and she...

slowed
down
and
and
and
SAT in front without bonking into me!

Happy dance time everyone. That has never happened before. Yay! Yay! Whoo hoo! Go Noelle, go!

Well, that was wonderful. Let's see if she'll do that again. Second chance to practice recall. Can she repeat this amazing feat?
Are you ready?
Ready.
Noelle, heel. I took off about four steps, and Noelle did an absolutely spot on off leash heel with me, perfectly even with my pants seam, head up looking right at me, but weren't we supposed to be doing recalls?






Handler error. Reset.

Only, the reset button was gone. Noelle didn't sit and wait any more. Instead she followed me down the side of the ring. And she did it again. And again. And, yes, again. 
Finally, I walked a foot away and called her to come. Then she did it right.

What a huge blunder on my part. I threw Noelle off and she was having a spectacular day. 
Noelle does not like repetition. She gets things right the first time, and the second run through she tries something different. First stand for exam, kickback perfection.
Second stand for exam, I think I'll lie down first. And then stand for a flicker, and then sit. DOH! The more I repeat, the more sloppy she gets. DOH!

Speaking of DOH! My training club is holding a fun match tomorrow. And we're going. Wish us luck because I'm sure I'll be saying DOH more than once. And I'm sure I'm going to laugh no matter what Noelle does. Because she's that kind of a poodle, and I like it that way.


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## lily cd re

You both are doing great! And yeah you can't drill a poodle. For Lily if we do things right once or twice we move on to something else since she will change it because I think she thinks that if she is being asked to do the same thing again she must have been wrong on those other trials. Javelin is a bit more willing to repeat things, but he is starting to really solidify his behaviors and I can see the potential for poodle creativity on repeats/drills.

Have lots of fun with your match! I am looking forward to hearing all about it.


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## galofpink

I hope you have a great time at your fun match - I am looking forward to hearing all about the wonderful things you and Noelle accomplish!

Noelle and you are doing wonderful at all of this stuff. It really is such a pleasure to read about all of the joys and challenges of obedience training. Your entertaining style of dialogue certainly is the cherry on top. We started Rally a couple weeks ago and this thread really offers me such perspective on what to expect and what can eventually come to pass. It is great to know that at every level, training is always a work in progress and more importantly a journey of experiencing it together rather than demanding and expecting perfection. 

This thread warms my heart in so many ways; so thank you for trying obedience with Noelle and thank you for including us in all parts of your adventures, set-backs and great strides. For the beginner trainer (like me), it really gives me hope and perspective.


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## Click-N-Treat

Galofpink,

I am a total novice with competitive obedience. Service dog work is nothing like the precision needed for competition. In the hair care aisle at the store, I don't care if Noelle sits perfectly even with my leg. As long as she's sitting quietly and not trying to eat anything, we're doing fine. This type of training is a trip and a half.

I tried practicing with Noelle today and she was more interested in bouncing like a coiled spring. It is raining outside right now, and is supposed to snow later. Our yard is a mud pit, so I can't run her around before we go tonight. This is going to be... interesting.

I'm considering writing a book about training Noelle to be a service dog and an obedience dog. I enjoy the long form personal essay a great deal and have already published two books. So, why not.


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## MollyMuiMa

Anything you write is a joy to read! The trials and tribulations of training Noelle would be such an inspiration to many I'm sure!!! You have a gift for writing!


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## Click-N-Treat

MollyMuiMa,

I was a fiction writing major in college. A degree in fiction writing qualifies you for jobs where you wear a name tag and repeatedly say things like,
"Would you like to make that a combo meal?"
"Would you like fries with that?"
"Will that be for here or to go?"

"A writer is someone for whom writing is more difficult than it is for other people.” Thomas Mann, Essays of Three Decades 

"Writing is not necessarily something to be ashamed of, but do it in private and wash your hands afterwards." Robert A. Heinlein


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## Click-N-Treat

This is from Noelle, so every poodle, listen up. Guess what happened today? We wented to dog training club again. Only this time different things happened. It was very exciting. We wented in a ring I have always wanted to sniff. We pass this ring all the time and never get to go inside. So, today mom taked me into that ring and I gots to sniff the floor. Mom telled me to heel, so we walked around while I sniffed the floor. I smelled a Newfoundland, and a sheltie, and a collie, and a golden, and a lab, and it was amazing. 

Then we did some more floor sniffing together while we walked around some new people. in a figure eight pattern. The new people had very interesting smelling shoes. I wanted to sniff the shoes some more, but then the leaved the ring. 

Next, mom telled me to sit. So I did a fast sit. Mom telled me to stay. Because you helped me, I know that stay means stay stay now, and not stay until I wants to gets up. A nice man petted my head while I sat. I moved my foot a tiny bit, but mostly I stayed. 

Then mom telled me to stay again and she walkified all the way around the ring. Round the whole ring she walked while I sat and watched. Then mom came back and got the leash. I was very good at sit and stay. 

Then we did a recall game and I came really fast, like whoosh, fast, right to mom and I bonked into her leg, and bounced off, and sat all crooked. Then we walked out of the ring. We came back and did group sit stay and down stay. That was good, because I am super good at that. I dids that just perfect. Then we wented home. It was so exciting. I hope we does that again.

Love, Noelle.

Click here. We need to work on heeling in interesting places because the new ring completely threw her for the heel pattern and the figure eight. All we can do is repeat, repeat in different rings until she knows what to expect. Once I had her attention, Noelle did fantastic. It just took half of the time to get her attention. She did not anticipate the recall. I've learned to look anywhere but at Noelle, until I get the signal to call her. If I look at Noelle, she's flying at me. 

One of the trainers suggested getting a piece of cardboard and sticking it in front of my feet so Noelle learns not to slam into me. I'm going to try that. Our club opens for runthroughs and early training Monday afternoons at three. My daughter gets off work at four or five, and her work is five minutes away from training club. We are going to start going early just to work on heeling in different rings, and for more one on one coaching. I think that would be a good idea. Then we can go home, drop off my kid, and drive back to training class. 

So, that was our fun match. Not too bad for a first try. Our next fun match is in a month. We'll be back, but right now, I need a drink.


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## lily cd re

Lily here, Noelle I thinks you did goooood for the first time playing that funny match game. I ran away like a silly zoomer the first time I played at that with my mom. She was pretty embarrassed and I kinda felt sorry for doin it but I couldn't help it it was too crazy to be calm.

Note from mom, run thrus in the different rings will be most helpful. You can also go into a store and practice pieces of the exercises or do them in a park. I have three different places I go with some regularity and two of my favorite show sites have match in the trial ring time you can rent the day before the trial.


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## Click-N-Treat

I asked the judge how to help Noelle not sniff the ring and he said, "Get her in more rings." Brilliant answer. 

In public places, Noelle has a default no sniff. She doesn't sniff people or shelves or anything on the floor. I need to make the ring a default no sniff. At my last dog club, Noelle sniffed the floor out of anxiety. We entered the building as aggressive dog class was leaving, and she got scared in the hallway by dogs barking and snarling at her. Then we went in the ring where the aggressive dogs were working, so she sniffed the floor to calm down. The sniffing at the ring this time was pure poodle curiosity. She wasn't anxious at all, just excited and curious. 

Once she got that out of her system, boom! She was great. I'm going to work on recalls and not bonking into me. That's going to be a big one. Heeling in strange places is a big one too. It's still winter here and it's really cold outside. It's in the 30's for days and days. 

Maybe I'll take Noelle on heeling adventures in pet stores. There's good distracting smells in pet stores. I think our local PetSmart actually has a ring they use for training classes. I could ask if they'd let me work in there. That would be huge. We could heel on mats and work on a default leave it. 

Noelle's About Turn is coming along nicely because we do lots of about turns in place. I also practice take off heeling by heeling four steps and then sit. It was almost surprising that Noelle's heel was horrible because usually that's her best exercise. 

Practice makes a huge difference so we'll keep practicing. I was proud Noelle did not leap on the judge and try to hug him. When she sat for exam I was so proud of her. My goal is to get her BN title this year. Will it happen? Only if we practice, practice, practice.


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## lily cd re

Anytime Noelle starts to sniff on heeling stop and reset her attention. For Javelin's lovely head's up heeling we spent many weeks going just one or two steps then resetting his attention. And the judge was right about getting into as many rings as possible. Now is when we need the Star Trek transporter so you could come take class with me and Javelin, Lily and I could come do run thrus with you.

I plan to get the BN with Javelin this year too! I expect to enter him at shows with matches the day before in June and July. I plan to keep him in BN for a couple of extra legs to help him get used to busy trial environments.


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## Click-N-Treat

I wish I could beam over, too. That would be so helpful. I'm feeling at a loss how to help her. I can train a dog to walk past a salad bar and lie down in front of a pile of cheese. I should be able to train not sniffing a ring. Hmm. Let me think. Leave it, watch me. No, leave it. Watch me. Good, watch me two steps, stop sit, reward mightily. Something like that. 

Do you have a command that means, we're going to work? I say Let's go to work outside of stores, but store manners aren't the same, so I need another cue. I was thinking of petting Noelle's head and saying, "Get your thinking cap on. Watch me, heel." Before we enter the ring as a ritual. Because Noelle thrives on ritual.


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## lily cd re

I agree that having a pre-ring ritual is important to tell your dog what will be happening. I would keep it simple. With Lily I tell her "ready, ready ready" while I signal her to look at the ring then immediately back at me. For Javelin I don't bother having him look in the ring since he is very handler focused and not worried over the ring but I say "let's go workies" as we enter. For both of them I do warm up work outside the ring which can vary depending on what we are going to do. If it is obedience we practice heeling with attention. If it is utility for Lily then also signals at short distance. If it is rally then I practice the exercises that will bring Lily upbeat for working and boost her confidence. I also make sure I am moving with purpose when getting into the ring so I don't lose the benefit of the warm up. One other thing I do is use a specific leash for different things. I don't know for sure if that helps the dogs, but I guess it helps me. BTW I should be sending you something nice in the next day or two.


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## Click-N-Treat

I'm looking forward to it!!!

Tomorrow I'm going to scout out that PetSmart because I swear I saw a small training ring the last time I was there. If no one is using it, it would make a fantastic place to practice. Enter ring, heel around the ring, sit/stay, recall on leash, exit the ring calmly. Repeat. I wonder if there are dog training places nearby that have rings we can use for practice? Hmm. Now I'm putting my thinking cap on.


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## Charmed

Click-N-Treat, my first dog was a beagle. He was not allowed to sniff when he was wearing his "work" collar and leash. Now, looking back I wonder how 13 year old me with no trainer was able to get that hound to walk with his head up... and his tail wagging. I think the advantage was that I was there when the pup was born and worked with him every single day from his birth. He, also got attacked going into the ring, and during the long sit by GSDs. Fortunately, being a beagle, he never generalized that all GSDs were trouble. Sometimes, there is an advantage to not being the brightest dog in the world.


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## lily cd re

Charmed I am always super impressed when folks get obedience titles with hounds. At my club there are hardly ever any hound group title dogs. I had a woman with a Rhodesian Ridgeback come to my tricks class and she has decided to come to my novice obedience class now too. I hope she gets title with him in obedience. She does agility with her older boy and she is also a trainer so there is no reason why she shouldn't make it.


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## Click-N-Treat

Getting a beagle to not sniff is impressive. I grew up with a basset hound. No way could we train Rosa not to sniff. I think most of her brain was dedicated to sniffing and the rest was dedicated to eating. Great dog. Dumb as a box of rocks, but a great dog.


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## Click-N-Treat

Last night I had a good long think. What is our biggest problem in the ring? Well, there are two. One is of course the recall leg bonk, which is improving. The second, and more critical, is Noelle's attention. Sniffing is a calming signal, yes, but it is also a pleasure seeking activity as well. Mini poodles were bred to hunt truffles hundreds of years ago, so I'm working with that nose for diabetes alerts, and against it in the ring. 

When Noelle's attention lags, she's going to sniff the floor, so I need to work on attention more than heel, more than any other skill. So, today we played a game where I had bacon and cheese, and Noelle had to get into heel position and look at me. I ran around the house and was very exciting. Stop, say, "Ready ready," lure into heel, reward with bacon. Run away again. Ready ready! Heel, focus, reward with cheese. I made this a whole lot of fun. 

I finally got to the point where I couldn't lose Noelle's focus because she was waiting for me to say ready ready. So, we took the game outside, which is a way more distracting place. I waited for Noelle to sniff, called, Ready Ready, and watched her spin into heel position with head up, eye contact and attention. Good. We will make this a daily game, and our most fun game, too. Ready ready, outside the ring. Ready ready in the ring. Then heel together. I want Noelle to get in heel and totally focused on me when I say ready ready. Using conditioning, I can make this a reflex if we do it often enough. Ready ready, the fun is starting, Noelle. Let's go. 

We also practiced recalls with my frame and a piece of cardboard. We have a long way to go before Noelle finds her brakes. She comes in too fast and hits me. I also corrected anticipation by not rewarding and putting her back in a sit wait. It's a work in progress. But, at least there's progress.


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## mashaphan

lily cd re said:


> Charmed I am always super impressed when folks get obedience titles with hounds. At my club there are hardly ever any hound group title dogs. I had a woman with a Rhodesian Ridgeback come to my tricks class and she has decided to come to my novice obedience class now too. I hope she gets title with him in obedience. She does agility with her older boy and she is also a trainer so there is no reason why she shouldn't make it.


well,you know Che Whippet PCD,Rae2, Jane has a Ridgie in utility (I think he may already be UD) and in the Southern Tier, Mary Cummings has Beagles. Really,according to Am Whippet club,lots of whippets in ob/rally. WHOLE different ball game than poodles,and one with which I am more familiar than the one I am trying to play now w/Otter


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## Click-N-Treat

So, we're back from class. Two recalls, two right to me, two square sits in front. She touched my gym shoes with her paws once. I was very pleased with this. We will continue our efforts. One trainer pulled me aside and told me to get ring sniffing under control.

Grr. Ring sniffing is a huge problem for Noelle. There is early training on Monday afternoons at 3pm, so we will go and do that every week and work on heeling around the ring and not sniffing the ring. We're also going to continue going to pet stores and work on not sniffing the floor. 

But... the really good news is my teacher expects Noelle to be trialing in the fall. Um, so soon? Well, we'll go for it and see what happens. 

Lots of today's class was off leash. Noelle managed to keep herself together the whole time. I was really happy with her. Up and up and up.


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## LizzysMom

Sounds as if you're making wonderful progress! I have the utmost confidence that you will solve the ring-sniffing problem in good time. I've actually been trying to work out how to apply the focus game for heeling you spoke about in your last post to my getting Lizzy's focus in agility when she's barreling for the A-frame that's right in front of her coming out of the tunnel instead of taking the jump over to the right that I'm pointing her toward...


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## reraven123

Zephyr and I are currently taking a class along with beginner agility called "calm and focused". It is about assessing your dog's mental state and how to tell if he is in the right place to learn or compete or whatever else you want to do with him, and how to get him in that state if he is not. It is an 8 week course and I am struggling to get the concepts and figure out how to apply them to my dog, so I'm not at all confident about summarizing here, but there are some things I think could help you and Noelle. 

The first thing we learned on the first day of class is to LET THE DOG SNIFF. This isn't always practical, but if at all possible get there early and let Noelle sniff around the room. If possible, take her into the ring where you will be training, otherwise take her around the perimeter. Put it on command--"go sniff" or "check it out". Give her a loose leash and just follow where her nose leads her. After a time (which varies a lot from dog to dog) she will stop and look up at you and at that time she is ready to pay attention to you and what you are doing. 

From there it goes into things to calm down or rev up your dog, and specific protocols to follow to get ready for class, or for competition or whatever. We're only halfway through, and already I am seeing changes. I was feeling really disconnected with my dog, and like he really didn't want to work with me sometimes; now I understand that it was my approach that was the problem. I need to look at Zephyr and see how he's feeling, and ask if he's ready to work or not instead of just hooking up the leash and assuming we are all set and I just need to get the right treats and tell him what to do.

Not saying this will fix all your sniffing problems, but I really think it would help.


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## Click-N-Treat

Maybe we can go early and I'll give Noelle permission to sniff outside before we go in. 
There's a trashcan by the door that has been peed on by every male dog for the last umpteen years. Noelle finds this trashcan to be amazingly interesting. Go sniff! Go inside the building wait for her to sniff the floor, correct, leave it, no sniff. Go back outside to the trashcan, encourage go sniff. Huh, could sniffing be, like going potty, an outdoor activity? Hmm. You have me thinking. Thanks Reraven.


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## reraven123

She needs to be able to sniff indoors in the space where you will be training, also. Let her sniff until she stops and looks at you and signals that she is ready, and after that you get to work and there is no more sniffing. But every time you want to train outside of your own home, she needs to get the sniffing done first.

If the trashcan is not near the area where you will be training she does not need to sniff there. March her on past it and let her sniff around the ring where you will be working.


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## lily cd re

I don't see the use of allowing them to sniff to get over sniffing. It allows the dog to rehearse an undesirable behavior and every rehearsal of any behavior if pleasant to the dog reinforces that behavior. Focused attention over whelms sniffing if it has been generalized. Sniffing is an avoidance behavior that reflects some level of stress. Focused attention gives your dog reassurance that you are taking care of their safety and leads to stress reduction, therefore no need to sniff. Some things we do can seem like they work for some period of time and then back fire later on.


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## reraven123

It's not always avoidance. Dogs have a very basic need to know "who was here" and "what were they doing", and letting them get that out of the way before we ask them to do what we want can really help them focus.


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## lily cd re

But their sense of smell is so much more refined than ours they don't need to put their nose on the floor to figure out who has been there. In my experience sniffing the floor is more often an expression of stress than curiosity about who is in heat or which puppy had an accident. At the clinic this weekend there was in in season St. Bernard and Javelin was not the only intact male there and nobody sniffed the floor or places she had been sitting or lying down to see if she was ready and nobody gave each other the business over her presence. Everybody there had no doubts that all the other dogs knew her status, but all the work we did was on using focused attention to reduce stress responses to difficult circumstances (which I think intact male poodle, cane corso, German Shepherd dog and golden retriever + in season bitch qualifies as).

Certainly when I walk through my neighborhood and somebody stops to sniff the pee mail there is no stress, but I'm not so sure there isn't tension in much other sniffing.

ETA: I do believe in allowing dogs to become familiar and comfortable in their training and trialing environments. This is why I like to trial at places I take match time or if that isn't available get there a day early to set up and walk around the building and grounds. I walk along the outsides of the ring and I allow air scenting, but no noses ever go on the floor. I just really do think that is rehearsing a bad act.


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## reraven123

Bottom line we don't really know what the dog is thinking. It doesn't really matter. I know that using this method with Zephyr helps us connect and helps him focus. He is not a big sniffer, it was not a problem before, but telling him to go check out the area where we are about to train is enjoyable for him and there is a definite check in with me when he feels ready to transition to training mode. There isn't any stress involved, he just likes doing it. Since Noelle has such a need to sniff, I would think she would like it also, and it would help her to know when sniffing time is over and it's time to listen to Mom.


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## lily cd re

If it works it works, but I think there are two (probably more) sides to this issue. Click will have to evaluate what will work for her and Noelle. Sniffing the floor is not on my list though. And it is through the conversation with differing opinions we really learn. If you only ever watch TV news and listen to talk radio that validates your already held opinions you never have a chance to grow, same idea here.


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## reraven123

Like I said this is all new to me and I am only halfway through the class. I am probably not communicating the concepts adequately, even so far as I understand them. There are lots of different methods that work for different people and different dogs, and I just think this would be worth a try for Click and Noelle. I am seeing a difference (for the better!) in how Zephyr and I are working together.

Also like I said, sniffing is only the first step, there is a lot more to it.


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## Click-N-Treat

Given what I am trying to teach Noelle to do, allowing her to do any sniffing of anything indoors is a big no. I was successful with food distractions. We will be successful with dog smell distractions. I just need to give Noelle something else to do instead. 

I have a feeling my answer is... Leave it, watch me, good girl. Repeat, repeat, repeat, until watch me is default and leave it is unnecessary. 

Would giving the trashcan a long sniff be a bad idea? Or would it get sniffing out of her system? Or is that simply giving her time to practice something I don't want her doing at all? Hmm, I'm confused.


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## reraven123

I don't know if it would or not. It's not the same thing as what I am talking about. I tend to say no, it woud not be helpful.


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## Click-N-Treat

As a diabetes alert dog, sniffing is Noelle's raison d'être. It's the entire reason I brought Noelle into my life. And about 10 minutes ago, she woke up from sleep as if her tail was on fire, and leapt on me while I was reading. I SMELL LOW! Pow! There you go, good dog. Was Noelle's nose on my body? No, she was at the end of the bed, but she still smelled isoprene on my breath from all the way over there, while asleep. She also caught a low blood glucose right before dog class a few weeks ago. Surrounded by all those dogs, and all that stimuli, she smelled low and acted as trained. Low blood sugar scent = priority override. It's the highest, most valuable, most important thing in the world to Noelle. And it's a scent task.

Smells are important for Noelle. She's been rewarded mightily for smelling the right thing. I can't turn her nose off. But, I can train her there's a right time for sniffing and a wrong time for sniffing. Indoors no, outside when I say go sniff, yes. Noelle likes rules that are very clear. I think, as an experiment, I'm going to give that a try.

We'll go to the most dog scent distracting locations I can think of this week. I live in Chicagoland, so there are literally a dozen pet stores within an easy drive. There's a Pet Supplies Plus, a Petco, and a PetSmart in the same shopping plaza, if you can believe that. Go in, walk around, buy a toy, rehearse the no sniff rules. Sniff outside. No sniff inside. That's what I'm going to try this week. 

Perhaps I'll discover Noelle gets herself calmed down by sniffing outside and is able to focus better inside. Perhaps I'll discover letting her sniff outdoors makes indoor sniffing worse! Perhaps I'll discover it makes no difference at all. I'll let you know.


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## fjm

I don't want to take this off topic, but the discussion of air scenting/floor sniffing struck me. I have noticed that Sophy in particular uses both, but for different purposes. Hunting treats she starts with a sweep of the room with nose down, then climbs up and points her nose in different directions to locate any she has missed. When asked to Find a cat or a person she starts by air scenting to find the start of the trail then drops her nose to follow it. Out reading peemails it is a similar pattern - head up to locate, nose down to gather in all the detail. I remember reading many years ago that German Shepherds are air scenters, rather than nose to floor trail followers like bloodhounds - don't know how true that is, but there could be interesting preference differences between breeds, or even between individual dogs.

For Noelle who, as you say, likes clear patterns and rules I think the no floor sniffing indoors approach is a good idea; it builds upon the Leave she already knows and is easier to generalise than no sniffing in the ring. But I can also see how letting a dog sniff could help with getting them relaxed and ready to work, especially training for a sport like Agility, where you want the energy but need it to be channeled. I know my two were always in a much better place to work if they were allowed to explore the venue and to briefly meet and greet the other dogs - rather the equivalent of me working out where the loos and the fire escape are and saying a polite good morning to the other participants!


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## Click-N-Treat

Well, no sniff indoors, yes sniff outdoors is a success with Noelle. She's quickly picking up the new rules. Today at the vet's office, we had another chance to practice not sniffing the floor. It's going to take a few weeks for her to learn the new rules, but I think it's going to be a huge help to her.

Another huge win for us happened at the vet's office, too. (http://www.poodleforum.com/29-poodle-health/261218-noelles-got-itchy-ears.html#post3144770) Stand for exam is something Noelle has been working on and now she's got a really nice stand. The vet examined Noelle's ears and she stood still, while I held her under the belly. This is why stand for exam matters and why I am so glad I worked on training it. 

The vet said she wished everyone trained their dogs like that. Not happy we had to go the vet, but darn proud of Noelle's stand for exam. Good girl Noelle. Now, heal, ok?


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## lily cd re

I am sure the groomers here also appreciate having dogs that stand on orders.


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## Click-N-Treat

Class was a blast. Much less ring sniffing, maybe 80% less, which was a huge win for us. I let Noelle stand outside the door and sniff the metal peed on trashcan by the door and sniff a post for as long as she wanted. When we went inside and she sniffed the floor, I corrected and brought her back outside to sniff the trashcan again. Good sniff out here, no sniff in there. It will take a few weeks, but I know Noelle will get the idea.

Karen, our trainer, told me to find the right music for Noelle to heel to so I can start getting my walking tempo set better. She suggested Michael Jackson, that kind of rhythm that I can count off, or sing in my head is a good idea. Heeling to music and doing funny dance moves with Noelle is relaxing and great fun. With myasthenia gravis, my body lurches and moves in unexpected ways, so I need to concentrate on body movements so I can maintain my balance and not screw up Noelle's rhythm. I think music will help a lot.

I used the heeling leash and wow did that workout wonderfully. I had this light leash in my pocket and Noelle had no idea it was there. I was able to correct her easily. I love this magic leash!!!

Stand for exam turned into stand for a wiggle. Not good. We still need to practice that.

Instead of doing our normal recall at the end of class, the trainer had us spread out around the ring in a square. We all walked away from our dogs at the same time, so I was standing by someone else's dog, facing Noelle. And someone else was standing next to Noelle, facing her dog. At the same time, we all called our dogs. All of the dogs took off running. Some ran to their handers in the middle of the ring. Some ran along the sides of the ring. Noelle ignored all those dogs, came at me at full rocket speed and sat in front. She did not tag me. I almost fainted from joy. 

One useful tip was when we're lining up with our dogs for sits and stays, was to walk into our dogs and circle left on our way to the line, so our dogs end up with nice square sits. It worked perfectly. 

Noelle is getting it. She really is. Onward and up and up and up.


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## lily cd re

I am glad things are progressing with sniffing. It might not be how I would deal with it, but if it works for you it works.

I am also really glad the leash is working for you too.

For music and pace setting I have a pocket sized electronic metronome.


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## Click-N-Treat

Today we played Noelle's heeling pace name that tune game. 
We tried:
Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' by Michael Jackson. Too slow.
De Taali, an upbeat piece of music from India. Too slow.
Rock Lobster by the B52's. Too slow.
One Week by Barenaked Ladies. Too slow.
君がいない未来 (Kimi ga Inai Mirai) by Do As Infinity. Too fast.
Single Ladies by Beyoncé. Too slow.
Boil the Breakfast Early by the Chieftans, Irish music. Too fast.
We Found Love by Rihanna. Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner!

That was ridiculously fun to do. Get the headphones on, go outside with a bag of treats and screw around with my phone. Bop to the music and heel along with me. When I got to Rihanna, she clicked right into tempo. It's faster than I normally walk, but she stayed with me, and offered more eye contact and connection. And there's a spot in that song where the tempo hits an accelerando which was very nice for heel fast. I AM EXHAUSTED!!!!!! Noelle is passed out on my bed right now. 

Canine Musical Freestyle is in our future for sure. There's a class near me. We'll have to give that a whirl. After I rest. After a very, very long rest, thank you.


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## lily cd re

Sounds like time for the metronome maybe.


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## galofpink

Since your a musician do you know the kind of BPM range that is working for you? If you narrow that down, maybe you can use this site to find some other music in the range?
https://songbpm.com/


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## LizzysMom

galofpink said:


> Since your a musician do you know the kind of BPM range that is working for you? If you narrow that down, maybe you can use this site to find some other music in the range?
> https://songbpm.com/


I love the way people on this forum go out of their way to be helpful, even when it's not an issue that personally affects them.  

Click, it sounds as if you've found a way to really make heeling fun for you!


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## Click-N-Treat

Hey, thanks for the tempo website. Cool! 128 bpm was our metronome marking according to that website. Sounds about right. I'd put that at just shy of Allegro Vivace. It's roughly twice the speed of a human heart at rest. Quite a peppy pace. However, according to that website, Single Ladies is at 193, which is the speed of Flight of the Bumblebee, so I don't think that's right. 

I think I'll stick to listening to the music while we practice heeling so I can sing it in my head during class. I'll also look for other music in the 128-130 bpm range.


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## fjm

I am now visualising you doing a whole obedience sequence at Flight of the Bumble Bee speed - I bet Noelle would love it!


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## Click-N-Treat

I think I'd pass out, FJM! But, yeah, Noelle could heel at that speed if I could move that fast.


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## Click-N-Treat

After a two week break, one week because my car broke down, and the second week because I went to my dad's memorial service, we returned to dog class tonight. We had a huge thunderstorm before class. The training room was wet and some of the mats were rolled up. Noelle slid on the wet floor during recall, which turned into a flailing attempt to stop and sit. I felt bad. Nice try, kiddo. Nice try. Stand for exam worked twice! That was so amazing. She was so solid on her stay. 

Heeling at a fast pace really did keep her attention. I kind of sang We Found Love in my head. Very funny how well that worked. I used my heeling leash and discovered that Noelle does fantastic with attention heeling when we're walking straight, and on left turns, but she checks out after right turns. 

Any ideas on how to help Noelle stay with me when we turn right?


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## fjm

Interesting - is it because in a right turn you are twisting away from her? I don't do formal obedience work, as you know, but our go-to game for heeling is like yours - musical Follow my Leader for fun and treats and praise. I'm sure a few rounds of that, focussing on turns and reverses, will soon have Noelle watching you like a hawk to see which way you go.


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## lily cd re

If you have small traffic cones, set up two of them next to each other so that you will approach them in a line. As you get to the first one (with them to your right, they are for you, not Noelle) you can start to cue Noelle for the right turn by turning your head to the right slightly. As you see your left foot come even with the end of the second cone take your next right step short and with your foot turned 45 deg to the right. Next step on left foot will be the full 90 deg of the turn. As you are doing this keep looking into the turn. Go slowly to give Noelle time to see what is happening. If you see her look away stop and give her your verbal correction marker and restart. You can keep a cookie on her nose the first few times if you need to. Then raise the cookie up out of her reach so that she will give heads up to the cookie. Feed at different points into the turn if she sticks with you and always correct and restart if she checks out.

How are your about turns? I ask because like for the right turn the dog is on the outside and can be tempted to disconnect. Javelin has great left and right turns but had been disconnecting on about turns. I have been using the same technique described above (although without cones anymore) to fix the about turns.

It is too bad your place was a mess from weather last night. We have been having some leaks since our building is flat roofed and has carried a lot of snow load this winter. Last week there were roofers working on the building next to ours so hopefully by the time I am back there ours will have been redone too.


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## Click-N-Treat

About turns are fantastic if Noelle is paying close attention when I make them, or abysmal if she is not! All or nothing with Noelle it seems. We will practice our turns this week, thanks for the suggestion. Sometimes Noelle's attention wanders because of noise in the room, or just so much repetition during class. There is a fun match in June we are going to. I'm looking forward to seeing how she does.


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## Click-N-Treat

I just got back from our second fun match. Before we went in the building, I let Noelle have a very long sniff. There was a horse event at the fairgrounds, so there was a strong scent out there. I don't know if Noelle ever smelled horses before, but she found the hay very interesting. Lots and lots of long sniffing. Then we went inside. No sniff rules.

We heeled into the ring together, and circled left at the starting line. If you circle left, you turn into your dog, which forces them to look up at you and they line up in a nice sit. Noelle did not sniff the floor! 

Forward, Noelle heeled and did beautiful speed changes and sat nicely. Her about turns were crisp and speedy. I was super proud of her from the start.

Figure eight, a little lagging on the right side, but nice heeling all around. I need to work on my pacing.

Stand for exam. Okay, Click, time to fish or cut bait. Are you going to do this on leash or off? I took off Noelle's leash and handed it to the steward. For the first time ever Noelle was off leash. I'm wondering what's going to happen. What is she going to do? Too late to freak out now, Click.

Stand your dog. Noelle stood. Stay. Noelle stayed. Judge approached. Noelle licked the judge's hand and took a step toward him for a snuggle. Judge said, No, stay! Noelle froze. I returned. This needs more work.

Off leash heel. We have never been off leash in class before. What is going to happen? What is Noelle going to do? Is she going to take off and frolic? Circle left and line up. Noelle, heel. She was wonderful! Right with me, we felt like a dance team, absolutely amazing. Heads up and with me, happy as can be. I was so proud I almost passed out. Just awesome. Yay, Noelle!

Recall. For the last few weeks at class, Noelle has been taking off when the judge says, "Leave your dog." So, we worked on anticipation. I called. Noelle came flying, slowed down, and sat in front. She was crooked. She did not tag me. I'll call that a win for now. She messed up the finish. That's okay. We will get that right next time. 

Get your leash exercise. We lined up again. Stay. I got my leash. Waited to be told to return, and went back to Noelle. Clipped her leash and we heeled out of the ring.

No ring sniffing. No sprinting away. None of that. Just with me very nicely. That was her best ever. When my trainers said we would be ready to trial by the autumn, I thought they were joking. Now, I know we can get there. Yay Noelle, go Noelle, go!


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## lily cd re

That sounds like a really great match experience!


For the figure eight remember your pace should not change. Noelle is supposed to adjust her pace to stay at proper heel position, going faster when she is on the outside and slower on the inside. More than working on pace most people need to work on their body english for the figure eight. You will train with a bit more exaggeration, but match and trial with small signals from your left shoulder. When Noelle is on the outside lean your head and shoulders slightly to the right to pull your shoulder forward to bring her up to heel. When Noelle is on the inside you will move your head and shoulders to a more neutral position or look slightly to the left and back if she forges. Over the weekend I watched one of my friends (with the two black mpoos) in open A with her girl. She had bad lagging all the way around on her figure eight since she kept looking back and left to see if Jenna was still with her, which ensured that the dog wasn't really with her. Otherwise she had lovely heeling, so if she fixes her thinking she needs to look for the dog she won't need to look for the dog. For those of us with large dogs we can always see a bit of them out of the corner of our eye on the figure eight, but that isn't so for people with small dogs. It is very hard not to look for them.


Most dogs heel off leash better than on. Once they understand what heeling is if they enjoy what they are doing with you they will automatically do what they need to to stay with you. I know that it is nerve wracking to take the leash off the first few times, but you shouldn't worry about off leash heeling since you and Noelle are so deeply a team in all that you do together.


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## Click-N-Treat

Catherine,

Thank you, I couldn't have gotten this far without you! It really was a wonderful match experience. There is another fun match in August. My club is at the fairgrounds and shuts down in July for the county fair. I've found another place to train in July. We're going to do tricks class, rally class, attend a barn hunt, and take a canine musical freestyle drop in class or two. Whew! Gonna be a busy July. I don't want Noelle to lose her ring manners by staying out of the ring for a month. Also, all of these things build our relationship and relationship is 99% of the game.

Noelle now knows the CD exercises, so it's time to work on finessing them. I need to start having treats somewhere other than on my body, too. Maybe in a box on a table. Do this exercise, release, go to the treat box, get treats. Do another exercise. I have not connected finish and recall in our training. I don't want Noelle to automatically finish. So, finish is a separate exercise from recall. 

I'm going to do some figure eights without my dog because I stink at doing them. One thing my trainer suggested was looking at the person's neck as you go around the figure eight. If you're watching the person's neck, your shoulders get in the right place. And yes, I do look for my dog, darn it. Noelle is little and I lose track of her. The more I look, the more she lags.

I wonder if I got a bicycle rear view mirror if that would help. Maybe that way I could hold my head up and still see my dog. Clip it to a hat or my glasses or something. Hmm. Might help with heeling as well. Hmmm. I think I'm off to the bicycle shop.


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## lily cd re

You are so kind. I am sure you could have gotten tons done without me since it sounds like you now have found good instructors.


I think the idea of a rear view mirror clipped onto glasses is brilliant! I will steal that idea for my small dog people if you don't mind. The idea of looking at the neck of the post people is great too.


Connecting front to finish should be no big deal and you are wise to not always finish after fronts. My mom's mpoo is an auto finisher quite frequently.


Taking food off your body is also wise. In a box (like one of those little ziplock sandwich or snack boxes) works well. Initially you may want to go get a treat after each exercise, but plan on chaining tow then three then four then all of the exercises together before you go get the treats. As you get through more of the exercises without food you can up the reward and that will transition into the common practice of giving the dog a nice jackpot reward after coming out of a trial ring.


For figure eights if you have a concrete patio available you can draw the foot path with sidewalk chalk. Posts are 8 feet apart and the semicircular paths around them should be roughly 3' in diameter. The middle is an X that connects the paths around the posts.


July sounds like it should be a lot of fun. I think you will find that when you go back to your regular class after the break for the fair Noelle will be very happy to work extra hard because she will have missed working those exercises.


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## Click-N-Treat

I haven't made it to my local bike shop. Today was a busy day and it's novel writing time. I'll swing by tomorrow. I did practice a little bit with Noelle, but then we were chased inside by mosquitoes. Noelle is signed up for a six week rally class starting the last week of June and for a Canine Musical Freestyle class drop in on the 20th. Fun times planned, and you know what, I could sure use some fun.


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## Skylar

I know you're going to love rally. We don't have freestyle here yet - I bet that will be fun too. Throwing in barn hunt and tricks will certainly keep you and Noelle busy.

I find it's easier to practice figure 8 with something to stand in for the human post.... I've recently bought very cheap orange plastic cones for practice figure 8 and other rally exercises. I've also used pet beds, cat scratch posts- frankly you can use pots or shoes. The best is the sides of a jump - you can stick a hat on the poles to make faux humans. Because you don't regularly practice with a human standing up, it's best to develop a system that works with your makeshift poles. One of my teachers makes a point to tell us to look inside the hole of the cone as we circle it. If you are looking into the hole as you turn around the cone, your shoulder and arm will naturally move into position - and your head will NOT BE LOOKING BACK for your dog when the dog is on the outside. They drill into us is don't look back at your dog or your dog will lag as your body language is telling it to lag.

I like your idea of a bike mirror, let me know if it works. Everyone says "oh you should be able to see your dog in the corner of your eye" - and those people always have large dogs. In one club, if you stand in the right place, there are mirrors you can see your dog. And at home sometimes I get a reflection off a window.


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## Click-N-Treat

I noticed something during our fun match. My six foot leash is annoying during the heel on leash and figure eight. It's way too long. I know I need a six foot leash for group exercises but I honestly think a 3.5 foot leash would give me plenty of obvious slack, without having a gigantic leash in my hands. Can I use a shorter leash during a trial or not?


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## lily cd re

First off why the heck are we both up and on our computers at just past 2 AM?


Yes you can use a shorter leash for heeling, but you will need a 6' leash for groups and if you choose to do beginner novice you need 6' for sit for exam. The person before me on Sunday in beginner novice had a short leash and had already sat and left her dog before the judge realized her leash was too short. She had the woman break the dog out from the sit and had the stewards borrow a leash from someone nearby. It was a pretty heavy/wide leash given the smallish size of her sheltie and the dog broke the sit, so I am not sure you want to have that as an issue in a trial.


I hold my excess leash neatly in my left hand during heeling. Before I start I take the time to get it organized to my satisfaction. If the judge asks if I am ready before I have it organized I say no.


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## Click-N-Treat

You are up past 2 am. it is only 1 am here. Wait, is that supposed to be better? My problem is with MG my hands are weak, so folding up the leash makes me more likely to drop it on the floor. I really have a hard time holding it all. I'd be much happier with a shorter leash, something I can hang on my left thumb and pretty much ignore during the on leash exercises. 

With a short dog, a six foot leash is so very long! I'll make sure to keep an emergency six foot leash in my purse for group exercises. Great Lakes Poodle Club of Chicago is holding an obedience trial in October. We're entering!!!!! Wouldn't it be neat to get our first leg at a poodle club show? Or even our very first NQ? One or the other is gonna happen. 

Can we get some sleep now, silly? See you tomorrow.


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## fjm

A largish knot in the leash at 3.5 feet perhaps, or even a loop? I don't know whether that is allowed in the rules, though. I am impressed by your dedication, ladies, discussing these issues into the early hours!


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## mashaphan

My main trainer,owner of the school,has always said to look at the SHOULDER of the post,but maybe the neck would be fine with a smaller dog. I would run smack into the post if i aimed for the neck!

The direction you start in matters,as well. I have ALWAYS gone left first,but Otter is so large. I have to go right first to slow him down a bit.

My problem w/the classes I can attend is that most are so far ahead of us. (Catherine,I had to chuckle last wk,as Raymond (Frenchie guy) was helping explain signs! And BTW Jenna's mom trains w/a judge,you would think said judge would have pointed out the "Don't look back" by now.

It's certainly a journey.Jenna's mom's little boy is the same age as Otter,and SO much farther along!

Martha et al


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## lily cd re

The person who attempted the CGC with me yesterday (didn't pass supervised separation) has beautiful heeling and the like. Over the winter in Florida he did a novice class and the instructor encouraged him to come into the open class that followed. He said he didn't think they would be able to do anything useful, but I think you should always stretch yourself. Otter will get there and you will be right there with him.


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## Click-N-Treat

Back from class. We had a run through on Novice. Noelle needs to work on square sits big time in heel position. Stand for exam and not moving her feet, too. And I need to work on my own pacing, darn it. I don't slow down enough on the slow. And of course, we need to work on the right side of figure eight. Noelle is lagging, bleh!

We did off leash heel away from the gate and then we were heeling fast toward the open ring gate. Noelle heeled right with me on the fast and then ran past me, out the gate and got in a woman's lap! 

FACEPALM!

Hilarious, but a facepalm. Still, while everyone was doing run throughs on the other side of the ring, Noelle spent the rest of class off leash and did well. She had one perfect stand for exam where I don't think her ears even moved. It was fun, especially having her off leash and doing so well. She's come a long way since we started, that's for sure.


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## Skylar

Click-N-Treat said:


> We did off leash heel away from the gate and then we were heeling fast toward the open ring gate. Noelle heeled right with me on the fast and then ran past me, out the gate and got in a woman's lap
> 
> FACEPALM!


OMG That's so funny.

I know someone who did a recall with her adult, full size golden- and the dog ran past her and jumped on someone's lap.


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## Click-N-Treat

Well, it was pretty funny, I must admit. Noelle did an honor down while I was a pole with my back to her. She was in a corner about 20 feet from me and did not move from her down. And she was off leash at the time, so there was that bit of awesome tonight as well.


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## lily cd re

To get straight sits practice in the hallway of your home, aisles of stores and next to the ring gate at your class. You will keep Noelle at heel with her between you and the wall/merchandise shelves or ring gate. Don't leave anymore room than she needs to stay at heel. If she swings her back end out she will brush the obstacle and fix her position herself. You can also do hind end awareness exercises like having her back up to a step and put her back feet up on the step.


For the stand for exam (and eventually will help with other exercises where you don't want forward creep like open command discrimination and utility signals and moving stand) use your front box!


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## Click-N-Treat

With stand for exam, our problem is half a side step toward the judge who just touched her. More petting please. We will go to the pet store and I'll get some volunteers to touch her while she's in a standing stay. I show them what I need them to do. We have no other issues with stand for exam, except that little sideways movement toward the judge. She does not creep forward toward me and maintains her stand throughout the rest of the exercise. 

I'll also work along the wall. Her butt is swinging wide on sits. I am not 100% convinced she knows where heel position is. She's getting the idea, and will continue to get the idea if we practice. Our first trial is in early October, so I have a little time to work on polishing her skills.


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## lily cd re

If you stand her in the front box for the stand for exam she will either have to deliberately step out of it or will bump her feet when she tries to take that little step towards the judge so it should help.


Proper heeling is almost always a work in progress with bits of tweaking always needed. It is a hard thing to teach great heeling since there is no reason for a green dog to have a clue about what you want. Remember where you started (I couldn't take more than two steps before Javelin dropped his head and we stopped) to appreciate where you are!


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## Raven's Mom

*Click* Raven also tends to make a little movement as the judge steps away but for a very different reason.....she does not welcome the touch and is trying to control the urge to let them know she was not pleased about it!


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## Click-N-Treat

Since we're planning on competing, I have to introduce Noelle to a foreign concept: the crate. Yes, I have a crate failure on my hands. My own fault, really. When I got Noelle, my original plan was to train her for diabetes alerts and I didn't think of showing. I didn't think a crate was mandatory. Now that I'm going to show, she needs to be able to be in a crate and be quiet. 

Oh boy. This is harder than training backward figure eights will blindfolded. I got a folding soft crate and started feeding her in it. She will go in for her meals happily. But, as soon as the food is gone, the sobbing starts. I've been tossing treats in and letting her in and out. Yesterday I put her favorite chew toy in the crate and wouldn't let her go get it. I played keep away and then zoom! She went in and chewed it happily with the door open. I closed the door and opened it, closed it and opened it. Little bit by little bit I'll get her used to the idea of being in there and settled. I need patience and I need it fast!


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## mashaphan

see below


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## mashaphan

I feel your pain! Otter is fine crated at home-most of the time-but at class or shows,he SCREAMS if i move away,say to walk the course.:ahhhhh: Head trainer wants to spray him with a water bottle-i won't do that,but would allow someone else to do so if they wish. Since I have an umbrella cockatoo :argh:, i guess i am used to noise , but I am sure this would NOT go well at a show!

Any suggestions from those who have experienced this? I am hoping it will go away once Otter gets a brain!

Martha et al


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## mvhplank

mashaphan said:


> I feel your pain! Otter is fine crated at home-most of the time-but at class or shows,he SCREAMS if i move away,say to walk the course.:ahhhhh: Head trainer wants to spray him with a water bottle-i won't do that,but would allow someone else to do so if they wish. Since I have an umbrella cockatoo :argh:, i guess i am used to noise , but I am sure this would NOT go well at a show!
> 
> Any suggestions from those who have experienced this? I am hoping it will go away once Otter gets a brain!
> 
> Martha et al


Give Susan Garrett's "Crate Games" a try. There's a DVD for sale at Dogwise.com. It requires some diligence to follow each step, but you sound like you're already a "trainer," so I think you'll follow through.


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## Click-N-Treat

We went to Rally class again. There are only four dogs in the class, which is really nice. One is a dark apricot toy poodle. He's adorable. The other two dogs are young GSDs. One is about to turn one and the other is 5 months. The 5 month old is, of course, over the top in exuberance and joy, and the year old GSD is pretty much the same. 

We were heeling. The puppy was behind Noelle. He ran up on her and tried to pounce on her. This scared Noelle, so she started sniffing the floor to calm down. Now, I've worked on not sniffing the floor and made huge progress. I feel like I'm going backward. My last class, I struggled to get and keep Noelle's attention because the wild GSD puppy kept stressing her out. 

Noelle, watch me, good girl. Eyes up, looking at me, paying close attention, heeling nicely, then BOING! BOING! Jumping crazy puppy runs up inches behind her. Noelle leaps out of the way. Noelle sniffs the floor to calm down and tunes me out. I get her attention back, and the puppy gets in her face this time. Sniff floor! 30 seconds of focused attention, 1:30 of floor sniffing. Repeat for an hour. 

Does anyone have a solution to this problem? It's a small room. I expect things to get worse next week because after class, the two GSD's played off leash in there. Now they'll expect to run around and play during class instead of paying attention. Class feels like trying to do algebra, and there's a four-year-old and a seven-year-old running around the room randomly screaming in people's ears. I've worked very hard at getting Noelle to stop sniffing the floor and made huge progress. It's being erased. I'm really frustrated.

What would you suggest I do? There are four more classes.


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> <snip>We were heeling. The puppy was behind Noelle. He ran up on her and tried to pounce on her. This scared Noelle, so she started sniffing the floor to calm down. Now, I've worked on not sniffing the floor and made huge progress. I feel like I'm going backward. My last class, I struggled to get and keep Noelle's attention because the wild GSD puppy kept stressing her out.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Does anyone have a solution to this problem? It's a small room. I expect things to get worse next week because after class, the two GSD's played off leash in there. Now they'll expect to run around and play during class instead of paying attention. Class feels like trying to do algebra, and there's a four-year-old and a seven-year-old running around the room randomly screaming in people's ears. I've worked very hard at getting Noelle to stop sniffing the floor and made huge progress. It's being erased. I'm really frustrated.
> 
> What would you suggest I do? There are four more classes.


It's time to have a quiet, non-accusatory chat with the instructor. Noelle is your service dog and you can't afford to have interactions with an out-of-control puppy "untrain" her.

Suggest to the instructor that, since it's a small class, you could all try taking turns of alone-time in the ring. I'd avoid saying anything to the puppy owner besides, "Please keep your dog back. My dog feels threatened by him." Sometimes (too often!) the puppy owners are clueless about how their beloved's behavior negatively affects other dogs.

Do you have your service dog vest on her in class? It might be worth "forgetting" to take it off to make a point.


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## Click-N-Treat

It's not really her SD work I'm worried about. It's ring manners. In the real world, we wouldn't go within 100 feet of an out of control dog. The puppy doesn't know any better and is still just a goofball. But, the puppy needs to learn not to run up to a dog. Maybe I'll talk to the instructor about doing non-group exercises because the puppy doesn't have the self-control for it.


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> It's not really her SD work I'm worried about. It's ring manners. In the real world, we wouldn't go within 100 feet of an out of control dog. The puppy doesn't know any better and is still just a goofball. But, the puppy needs to learn not to run up to a dog. Maybe I'll talk to the instructor about doing non-group exercises because the puppy doesn't have the self-control for it.


That sounds sensible. I wouldn't want to discourage a new handler (as I suspect the puppy owner is), either. We all start somewhere. If you're all headed toward competition, a few words from the instructor to everyone about how to behave at a trial might be helpful for all, from checking in at the correct ring, wearing arm bands, allowed (and not-allowed) collars--the whole thing.

I've certainly suffered from having a handler too busy talking to properly manage her dog, or just plain letting it get close enough to snark.


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## lily cd re

I agree with Marguerite. I would talk to the instructor and ask her to have you do things by turns rather than as a group unless there is enough space to prevent the puppy exuberance from overshadowing the benefits of the class. If I were doing a class like this with the array of dogs are there I would probably either have you go by pairs (2 poodles then 2 young GSDs) or one by one. And I never allow my students to have their dogs play with each other on a training floor. If the two people with the GSDs want their dogs to play together it should be on some other neutral ground. I virtually never allow Lily and Javelin to play together in any training ring. If they do, they must stop the instant I tell them to quit or face a time out to resettle themselves. I will play with each of them myself, but not the two of them together.

Don't carry worry over this with you and Noelle will recover quickly.


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## Click-N-Treat

Thanks for your support everyone. Letting the dogs play in the same room as training is going to set them up for confusion. I expect them to be more rambunctious, not less next week. I'll email my teacher and see what she says, because I really like the class a lot.


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## lily cd re

Click-N-Treat said:


> Thanks for your support everyone. Letting the dogs play in the same room as training is going to *set them up for confusion*. I expect them to be more rambunctious, not less next week. I'll email my teacher and see what she says, because I really like the class a lot.



Especially since they are youngsters and probably lacking in impulse control anyway. I hope the instructor sees things as we do and that allowing crazy behavior doesn't help anyone.


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## Skylar

Are the dogs on a leash? 

I keep Babykins as far away from potential trouble makers as possible, I will move to the opposite side of the room if I have to. I hope your teacher will provide the structure so these puppies don't interfere with Noelle. It could just be instructions to the class to spread out and give the dogs enough room. It could even be gating the youngest puppy in an area with it's owner if you're working off leash.

I haven't had to do this in rally or obedience class, but in agility I have gone up to other dog owners and explained that I never want my dog playing inside the building and not in the ring because I am serious about training and I don't want my dog to zoom thinking this is a play zone. This is business. I do say that outside the building I don't mind if the dogs sniff and play.


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## lily cd re

Skylar I used to be always having to tell my novice teams to leave room if we did heeling around the perimeter of the ring. They were forever bunching up since some had big dogs and other had tiny dogs and therefore different paces. I now mostly do heeling for novice in straight lines. Everyone starts in a line at one side of the ring and goes to the other end. We start with heel normal and release party at the gate for good attention, get a new set up and repeat. Once everyone is warmed up we throw in pace changes, halts, circle left and right and such. I set up the halts and circles so the dogs have to move relatively near each other, but pay attention to the handlers. I also tell the handlers if they think their dog is not going to pay good attention if they are sitting or circling too close to another dog to make sure they sit or circle where their dog will be able to succeed rather than as close as they might be right when I give the orders. It really is on instructors to manage the dynamics of the teams in addition to giving instructions and directions.


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## Click-N-Treat

Well, Rally class continues to be interesting. Noelle was ring sniffing by the time we got to the second sign. My teacher suggested letting go of Noelle's leash and running to the other side of the ring. 
Wait a second, and then ask, "Noelle, what are you doing all the way over there?"
Noelle's face... Her expression was HOLY $HIT!!! And she ran over to be with me. 
She tried ring sniffing again, and I quietly disappeared. The second she got distracted, I was somewhere else.
Noelle's focus improved almost instantly. Noelle started watching me very carefully and we had a wonderful run through the last time with no ring sniffing at all.

Now, on to training issues. 

Call to front. There are so many rally signs that say Call To Front. This is a new concept for Noelle. In regular obedience, we don't do call to front at all, except with recall. The idea of stepping from heel in front of me, and sitting, is foreign to Noelle. So, we're going to work on that this week. Also, I need a class called Rally Signs as a Foreign Language. I get so confused by the signs, and it's only going to get worse the longer we practice rally.

Tips? Suggestions? I think the pictures throw me off more than the words on the signs. Help!


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## mvhplank

I sometimes have problems resolving sign pictures and actions--made worse by doing four different rally venues. The worst is a UKC sign for "circle left." No problem, right? But if you just glance at the sign, the arrowhead is on the RIGHT side of the circle. That was the sign I failed in my first-ever attempt in that venue. Now I read the signs out loud to the dog. And say the sign number, so I'm sure I'm not skipping a sign.

I still get flummoxed about whether there's a sit after a return to heel--I just have to take a rule book with me and check confusing signs. Actually, I usually ask a trusted competitor or the judge, but I just worry about the signs on course and don't try to memorize them all.


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## Skylar

Call to front is fun - just when you think your dog is getting it - the teacher comes up with new and weird angles for you to stand as part of proofing your dog. When you think your dog is understanding it, the teacher now asks you to walk to the other side of the room and stand with your back to the dog ..... each time I would think okay, Babykins can do this ..... only to find out she couldn't and we would have to train more strange approaches for her to come in front. Eventually you get a dog that will come in front from anywhere, any angle. It helps when calling your dog to front - early in training, as Noelle comes towards you, you take a few steps back, she will follow you and then you can ask for a sit. Stepping back a few steps helps Noelle be straight before she sits. In advanced levels you can't step back so fade out that stepping back. 

One game that helped was tossing food between my legs. I found a video that is basically what I did. Babykins loves this game and I still play it every once and a while. I also used this for training recall.






As for those signs - OMG every time I have competed I have panicked because there is one or two signs I completely forgot what it meant. I would swear that I've never them before. If you download the Rally app on your phone, you can use that to quickly review. I found watching it reminded me that I have trained it and exactly what I had to do. When I went into the ring to compete and it all came back. I had the additional problem that I was learning the old WCRL signs to compete at the same time they were switching to both completely new signs as well as completely changing different exercises and rules. Probably not the ideal time to start - if I had waited several months I would have only had to learn all the new signs and rules. Now that I'm feeling confident in WCRL I need to start learning AKC signs which are similar but has it's own quirks. I know what Marguerite is referring to - so I'll have to remember those details. I found it also helped to buy a set of cards - one of the clubs had sets of laminated cards bound by a ring. I could pull out the cards for the exercises I was practicing - I could see the sign and read the rules as I worked with Babykins. It does get easier and I know if I can do it so can you and Noelle.


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## mashaphan

ok,so I haven't had a dog that I could get between my legs since I was 12-13yo,but it is a wonderful way to get fast fronts, as is the 3 cookie game ,which is basically what Janice Gunn was doing.

Now,are you having trouble with the call front from the sit at your side? it can be tough,and just takes work. It does build from the 'call front while backing up"-the akc videos can help. Now "call front' is different from "call TO front" which (at least in AKC) is seen with "stand while heeling" "down while heeling" and maybe more,with the new signs,and Otter and I back at novice level. (really,is off-set serpentine necessary??) i only do AKC and ASCA,so don't know about the other venues. Catherine can probably help some,too,as soon as she recovers from the trip to Binghamton:alberteinstein:

Martha


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## Skylar

I should add if Noelle is sitting in heel position and needs to move to in front and sit - some dogs need a little space to get into the front position. If Noelle needs that space - you can train her to go around a cone or can or something and then she comes in front.

I can't find a video so I'll try my best to explain. Stand with Noelle sitting in heel position. Have an object a few inches ahead of your left foot, slightly to the left of your foot. Train Noelle to walk around that object and then come into front. This teaches her to take a few steps forward before twisting her body to come in front. Large dogs need more space than small dogs and some dogs are more stiff in their turning than others - using an object helps them get far enough in front of you that they have room to turn around and get into a straight front position before they sit at your feet.


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## lily cd re

Click that was a very clever anti-sniffing solution. Going forward I would think about using it for obedience too. 

Marguerite your confusion regarding similar signs in different venues is majorly why I have focused on AKC rally. I dabbled with WCRL when it was still APDT, but found myself messing things up as I went back and forth. I think generally for AKC the key to knowing the signs is to download their descriptions (http://images.akc.org/pdf/events/2017-rev-rally-minisignswdescriptions-1-2018.pdf) or get a card set or book with the signs and the descriptions. Read the descriptions and pay particular to the underlined parts which are the core parts of each trick. There are a couple of places you can get laminated cards or books. Here are links. One-Stop Shop for AKC Rally Needs and Rally-Supplies


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## Click-N-Treat

Well. Noelle has decided the proper way to get from heel position to front is to spring forward on her hind legs, leap up in the air, whirl around in midair, and land in a sit in front. The first time she did this, I laughed. Now, she does it all the time. Noelle also does a leaping finish to the left, so I think her front is the exact opposite.

My trainer said Noelle is a very flashy dog and that I should jackpot her flashy moves. I agree with my trainer because those flashy moves are pure joy in motion. They really are Noelle being Noelle. So, I guess I will encourage this springing leaping front. And she lands straight, too.

I have the Rally App. What's interesting is I look at the signs on the app and I understand them perfectly. Then I see them in the ring and it's like reading a foreign language. I'll keep practicing.


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## lily cd re

Lily has a flying left finish, but so far I haven't encouraged it in Javelin since I don't want to invite him to leap just yet. Since he was still happy to bounce and grab my hand while we were supposed to be heeling in Saturday's trial I will wait on that type of finish but would eventually like to install it as a way for him to let go of a little energy at the end of exercises that require finishes (recalls, retrieves, scent, directed jumping).


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## lily cd re

I forgot that all you iPhone types have the app for the rally signs. I think they still don't have an Android version, so never mind about buying printed things.


I thought of one other thing which is to take your invisible always scores 100 dog on your walk through and say your orders, give your signals and do your proper foot work. I find doing that gives me "muscle memory" for doing the actual run.


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## Click-N-Treat

Back from Rally class. We worked on all the cone related signs. I got completely lost on spiral. Serpentine is obvious. Spiral WTF? I need a mnemonic or some way of counting off the cones, or something because my brain got completely lost. It was also awesome when I got it. 

We did some Rally Master's signs. The you stand still and the dog spins right/left signs. Noelle and the other poodle in class lit up and enjoyed this so much! I think I'm going to make this walk, spin, walk, spin part of my warm up exercise before going in the ring. It really makes Noelle happy and a happy dog is a focused dog. We also walked backward together. 

Then we went to the store. The shopping cart I wanted is the smaller cart. The bigger carts were on the left, smaller carts on the right. But, there were a lot less small shopping carts. So, we had to heel backward to get out of the little corridor created by the shopping carts. And Noelle healed backward! It was very impressive and quite adorable. 

Someone saw Noelle heeling backward and was astounded. That was fun. So many rally tasks are very useful footwork for working in public. Noelle pivots left when I turn the shopping cart. She moves backward and stays right with me. I will keep working on Rally with Noelle. She enjoys it a ton, and so do I. 

Our regular training club opens back up August 6! YAY!!!! There is rally class after obedience class. We're gonna have so much fun!


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## mvhplank

That is so flippin' cool! I know that "aren't I smart?" look poodles get.


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## lily cd re

That's funny, I just did a whole rally class on signs with cones a couple of weeks ago. For the spiral I talk as I go like I am talking to the dog. "okay let's go around 3 cones, okay now let's do 2 cones and okay now one last cone." I have seen many people screw that sign up for sure.


I was talking to one of my friends who is relatively new to rally (does lots of agility) and basically what we were saying was that the rally signs are essentially tricks with some heeling to connect them to each other. But, for sure, the tricks can come in very handy for all sorts of out and about situations.


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## Skylar

haha, I don't think I could do a whole class just devoted to cone related signs - I get so dizzy. Last summer my obedience trainer set up a very long line of cones to serpentine in and out of - I thought I would fall down at the end of that line. I had to go and sit down for a while after that.

I agree, those rally signs are all helpful for normal everyday navigation. Kudos for Noelle for backing up out of that cart line. She's a smart cookie.


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## Click-N-Treat

Well, what's funny is with the carts, Noelle tried turning around and going forward first. I encouraged her to go back up, being 99.99% certain she would not do this. When she did, and I was being watched by an audience, I had to be kind of "well, of course she does that, she's a service dog." Internally, I was doing back flips! Ha.

Those cone ones are really confusing. We had four cones, with a serpentine sign on one end, and a spiral sign on the other. Also there were two distraction cones on either side. Someone got distracted, hint, it was not the dog! I'll get some pop bottles and we can practice the spirals and serpentine weaves. 

Rally really truly is heel work with tricks. Noelle loves heeling. Heads up, tail up, joy all over. Her release after an exercise is five steps heeling forward with me saying, "whoopee!" That release makes heeling fun.

I made contact with the poodle club and Noelle and I are (gulp!) going to our first show in October with the poodle club. I think we'll probably be the only Novice A team in Obedience and Rally, but hey, everyone starts somewhere.


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## lily cd re

I am happy to see that you are ready to take the plunge with entries for the fall. Good for you.


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## Mufar42

You and Noelle are amazing! .


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## mvhplank

Regarding cones: I'm a UKC rally judge, so I have to create my own courses. We're required to make nested courses and to try to get each level take the same amount of time to run.* UKC requires a High in Trial award, with ties broken by time. 

We don't have nearly as many signs available as AKC (I keep hoping they'll do an update to the program). So it's hard to avoid signs with cones. We have the two flavors of "paperclip" spirals, 4-cone Figure 8, and both 4- and 5-cone serpentines. Having an extra cone in the serpentine can make it easier to find the correct direction after coming out of the exercise.

I was at trials as a competitor and observed a couple of older handlers experience balance problems while doing the spirals, so now I avoid using them. Personally, I don't like them either!

I'm so glad Click-n-Treat and Noelle are having fun with rally exercises! I use them a lot at obedience trials when warm-up space is very limited. I think it helps build a connection and work through distractions.

M

*The way to make the courses take the same amount of time is by counting changes of position on course. For example, a sit equals 1, a halt-down-sit equals 3. I think 12 changes is too much, and about the best I can do is 9 in each level.


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## mashaphan

I am ok w/serpentines,but the spirals (paper clips!) make me dizzy every time. Yes,counting-on lots of signs- helps. And back-ups can be very hard to teach,so kudos!.

Martha and the may-never -make -it Otter :afraid:


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## Skylar

Click-N-Treat said:


> I made contact with the poodle club and Noelle and I are (gulp!) going to our first show in October with the poodle club. I think we'll probably be the only Novice A team in Obedience and Rally, but hey, everyone starts somewhere.


That's wonderful. My current competition obedience trainer said that we should look for our breed's show to compete. I don't know is this is true or not, but the experienced members all talked about how at your dog's breed show they want the dogs to qualify and make it as comfortable and easy as possible compared to a general club obedience. They said this was the best place to start.

BTW, cones are very reasonable priced - I bought a set of these for training on Amazon. These are a good size - large enough to be seen but small enough and portable enough to drag around the house or outside. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HN10GEE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## lily cd re

mashaphan said:


> I am ok w/serpentines,but the spirals (paper clips!) make me dizzy every time. Yes,counting-on lots of signs- helps. And back-ups can be very hard to teach,so kudos!.
> 
> Martha and the may-never -make -it Otter :afraid:



Martha you and Otter will get there so change your signature back to something optimistic.


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## zooeysmom

Click-N-Treat said:


> I made contact with the poodle club and Noelle and I are (gulp!) going to our first show in October with the poodle club. I think we'll probably be the only Novice A team in Obedience and Rally, but hey, everyone starts somewhere.


Yay! What date(s) is your show? You will find judges to be VERY kind to the "A" competitors. And I've usually found my fellow A competitors to be nice as well.


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## lily cd re

Judges in obedience and rally at breed specialties are often very supportive and generous (but they don't give things away that they shouldn't). One thing to know is that for open and utility they often do the A order for the B classes. I also find that judges are very supportive and friendly in their briefings for novice A and we also had a really nice supportive briefing for beginner novice B when we were in Binghamton. Jim Ham started by noting that he realized we weren't new, but that the dogs we were going to show were. He gave some good tips and told us he hoped we all got a good assessment of the progress in our training out of our runs. If any of you has a chance to show to him do enter. He is very very nice to show to and also to steward for. I have done both.


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## Skylar

mashaphan said:


> I am ok w/serpentines,but the spirals (paper clips!) make me dizzy every time. Yes,counting-on lots of signs- helps. And back-ups can be very hard to teach,so kudos!.
> 
> Martha and the may-never -make -it Otter :afraid:


Martha - I had no experience dog training before Babykins, and I'm horrible scared each time we compete - but if I can do it, so can you and Otter.


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## lily cd re

So I've met Otter since Martha is one of my Syracuse show friends. He is not nearly so wild as she thinks he is. He is just young and needs to collect his brain.


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## Click-N-Treat

New signature. 

Martha and getting-more-awesome-every-day Otter :cheers2:

There, I fixed it for you. 

Is Noelle going to do awesome at her first show, or NQ? I'm training toward awesome, and prepared for NQ. The ability to win with grace and NQ with equal grace is something I'm working on growing within my spirit. Because this isn't about ribbons, prizes, or letters after my dog's name. It's about our relationship, our fun, our joy together, and competing is an expression of that joy. 

Our first show is Friday 5th through Saturday 6th at Great Lakes Poodle Club. We'll go and do our best!


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## lily cd re

Click-N-Treat said:


> New signature.
> 
> Martha and getting-more-awesome-every-day Otter :cheers2:
> 
> There, I fixed it for you. *I agree totally!!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Noelle going to do awesome at her first show, or NQ? I'm training toward awesome, and prepared for NQ. The ability to win with grace and NQ with equal grace is something I'm working on growing within my spirit. Because this isn't about ribbons, prizes, or letters after my dog's name. It's about our relationship, our fun, our joy together, and competing is an expression of that joy. *That is a winning attitude to take with you. There is a lot to be enjoyed in this journey, especially if you can laugh about your less than stellar moments.*
> 
> Our first show is Friday 5th through Saturday 6th at Great Lakes Poodle Club. We'll go and do our best!



Do you know who the judge(s) are? Post their names and I will let you know if I have any experience with them.


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## Skylar

You have the right attitude Marie. Whether you Q or NQ - it really doesn't matter - it's the experience and leaving the ring with Noelle happy.

There are several people who participate in WCRL Rally who are professional dog trainers. Several of them NQed with their dogs - and OMG I learned a lesson watching them. Every one left the ring angry and stressed and ignoring their dog. When Babykins NQ - we need one more leg for Level 2 - she zoomed. Darn dog, she zoomed at the last sign just before Finish and I couldn't get her back. So I laughed. She just looked so cute running around and she was having fun. She never zoomed in class so I'm assuming she was stressed, tired or both. When she finished running she was a good girl and we left the ring happy. While I truly would have loved to have that third leg - I was proud that I didn't leave the ring angry at my dog. Catherine pointed out - its a sport we as humans chose to enjoy - and damn it - we better enjoy ourselves haha.


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## chinchillafuzzy

I can’t wait to hear about your upcoming events! You guys are going to rock it so hard!!


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## Click-N-Treat

Hi every poodle, it's me again, Noelle. I have to tell you something I discovered yesterday that changed my whole life. We went to training club and after our class was all done we went into a different ring. There were signs on the floor. In the middle of the ring was a frame thing. I didn't know what it was for, so I ignored it.

Mom and I heeled together from one sign to the next sign. One sign was, deep breath, double-left-about-turn-left-turn. Wow, we did that one and it was fun. We did a whole bunch of really hard signs. Then we got to sign 12. It said Send-over-jump-handler passes by. We were by that frame thing in the middle of the ring. Mom said, "Over!" So I leaped in the air. I jumped in the air. I went BOING! And I bounced over. It was... life changing. 

I never knew that was possible. I smiled at my mom so hard my face still hurts. Send over a jump. There are jumps. I didn't know there were such things as jumps! Jump is awesome. Over! WOW! Just, WOW, every poodle.

I loves Rally. Mom says there will be jumps in something called Open, too. I don't know what Open is, but if there's jumps I am all over it. 

Love,
Noelle
PS. What's agility? Are there jumps?


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## lily cd re

Both Lily and Javvy say they think jumps are just the best fun too!


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## Skylar

Babykins loves the jumps too - it invigorates poodles. I'm glad Noelle enjoyed her jump.


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## fjm

Jumps are the best! But in agility there are these really good things for small dogs where you run up and you get even higher than a human's head and you can see the whole world, and another one you run along and tunnel things and all sorts of fun (although I am not sure about the one that goes up and down by itself - I ran up it by mistake when Mum was looking the other way and it went BANG and I didn't much like it after that). And one place we went all the humans waited their turn by one of the climby uppy things and Mum got talking and I was on my lead but I got just high enough to get my nose into their pockets where there were all sorts of good things and it was ages before they noticed. I think you would like agility, Noelle!

Sophy doesn't do jumping. She says it hurts her back. I think that is very sad when it is so much fun - I love boinging too!

Love Poppy xx

[Poppy was very good at it - I was not, as you may have gathered! fjm]


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## JenandSage

Sounds so fun!
Sagey


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle really likes jumps now that she knows what they are. I'll have to keep her from just taking off and doing jumps for fun. We had a really wonderful practice this week. I'm working on keeping food out of my hands and rewarding out of a container. A little plastic KFC green bean container makes a really excellent dog reward bowl. I can fill the container, put it in my pocket, and pull it out to reward. 

I've also discovered that frozen Swedish meatballs are Noelle's magic treat. She goes absolutely bonkers for them. I chop up meatballs into small bites and use them as a treat. Fortunately, Noelle is a kinda skinny dog and doesn't get an upset stomach. I get 12 treats to a single meatball, so they go far and cost a lot less than dog treats.

Noelle was forging on heel which she has never done before. I reigned that in right away. We're working getting a really square stand. She'll do a beautiful square stand from a down, but not from a sit. Any suggestions on how to help her understand that when I say stand, I mean stand next to me in heel and don't move to front?


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## lily cd re

Use your pvc front box as a stand box or if you have a platform that she fits on for a stand use that.


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## mvhplank

lily cd re said:


> Use your pvc front box as a stand box or if you have a platform that she fits on for a stand use that.


Or maybe you could find a corner where you're facing one wall and she's hemmed in on your left. Kind of hard to get to front from there. You could also make a fence with an X-pen, if you have one.

Stand, click, repeat, and then move away from the wall to see if she gets the idea. If not, move back to hemming her in for a couple of times and try again. Of course, motivating meatballs will be required.


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## lily cd re

You could also set up a row of cones and keep Noelle against the cones.


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## Click-N-Treat

Ok, those are all really good suggestions! I'll give them a whirl tomorrow during practice and I'll let you know how we did.


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## Click-N-Treat

Back from a frustrating class. It was blisteringly hot in the building where we train. There's no air conditioning and no windows, just two garage type doors on either side of a huge room. It was 91 degrees outside, so it was probably 110 in the building. There are some fans but they don't do much good. As a diabetic, I get hot easily and don't have the ability to cool myself off. It's like my internal thermostat gets stuck on high and my body no longer remembers how to stop heating up. A lot of people with T1 and T2 have these problems.

I probably wouldn't have gone to class at all, but I have a trial coming up and I really need to practice. Noelle was off because I wasn't at my best. And then the new trainer decided, for some reason, to do Noelle's stand for exam with Noelle in heel position instead of me standing 6 feet away. Well, Noelle moved her feet to say hi to the nice lady. Who had me correct Noelle for moving. We did this over and over, and Noelle failed over and over more spectacularly each time. 

I know my dog. I can read my dog. She was frustrated and confused. The lady came to pet her while she was in heel position. Therefore, this was NOT stand for exam. This was nice lady petting me. Why is mom so frustrated? 

If I was given the chance to do a normal stand for exam (which I wasn't) Noelle would have been able to be rewarded. Nope, instead, Noelle is in heel position, the lady comes to pet her, and Noelle steps over to say hi. And gets in trouble for moving her feet. Rinse and repeat. Noelle never got a chance to do it right and be rewarded. She just melted down after that. 

Did I pattern train Stand For Exam? You bet your sweet @ss I pattern trained Stand for Exam. Because I used to have jump all over trainers and act a fool for exam. So, I created the pattern on purpose and drilled it deep into Noelle's head. You stand. You stay. I walk 6 feet away. Person comes and touches you. You don't move a single hair on your tail, got it? I return to heel position. I praise like a crazy person and we have fun. Got it? Good. Let's do that Stand for Exam game again.

Do I need to continue to proof Noelle's stand? Yes, of course. But don't repeatedly set my dog up to fail! This trainer does this all the time! She drives me crazy. No matter what I am doing, I end up having to correct Noelle over and over because the trainer set us up for failure. And Noelle wilts when she fails over and over and then stops trying. 

I think her training methodology is based on punish the dog until it guesses what the right thing to do is, and then praise the dog for doing the right thing. Which is the exact opposite way I train Noelle. I train in tiny steps in the right direction, with lots of fun and praise along the way. This is what Noelle is used to. This is what Noelle responds to. This is what built our relationship into the partnership that it is. I'm Click-N-Treat not Jerk-and-Puke for a reason!

Today we were working on eye contact games. Noelle was giving 100% focus with absolute delight in her eyes. And... I rewarded her wrong. Tonight I couldn't even give my dog a treat correctly. Today kinda sucked, to tell you the truth.

Tonight was an endless series of corrections in a 110 degree room with me getting increasingly overwhelmed and frustrated. Noelle was shut down and confused, alternating between ring sniffing and scratching her neck. Neither of us enjoyed class at all. 

Rally was a blast, though. We went through the exact layout of yesterday's intermediate rally trial. Noelle did very well even on signs we've never seen before. Rally takes the pressure off and gives me a chance to be just happy and silly with Noelle doing fun stuff in a way that obedience just doesn't allow. I'm seriously considering ditching obedience and concentrating on rally.

Or, maybe I'm just grumpy and still too hot.


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## fjm

I don't know about ditching Obedience, but I think I would ditch that particular trainer. I can quite see why the combination of circumstances meant you were not in a fit state, physically or mentally, to say No to her, but I think that is what I would do next time. Then leave if she persists, and have a courteous word with the more positive trainer. I once went to a similar trainer myself - not a happy experience! It ended when my dog and I, having moved further and further down the hall away from her, looked at each other and both thought "We are not enjoying this!". We slipped away and never went back...


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## lily cd re

Acckkkk! It is very hard to do anything constructive in a bad environment. 

Who is the new trainer? Is it because it is a different class that there is someone different? Please don't give up obedience because of one person on one day who gave you a rough go. You have invested lots of great work in novice and you are on the brink of training for open and open is a lot more interesting and fun.

If you can get there early before the next class and have a chat with the trainer I would explain to her that you are more of a shaping based trainer. also tell her that you have entries for novice coming up and that you need to practice the exercises as in the novice routine. Let her know that Noelle has a very diverse repertoire of trained behaviors and that you want to separate the novice routine from other things until you have passed your trials.


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## Click-N-Treat

No, it's the same class. This is the new assistant trainer. Our regular assistant trainer will be back soon. I have two weeks until the next class because of Labor Day. Maybe Joyce will be back in September. Joyce makes class fun. Karen, who is the head trainer, is awesome, but I didn't get to work with Karen yesterday. Yesterday was really bad and zero fun.

I've heard complaints from other people in class about the substitute, so I'm not the only one who is just overwhelmed by her training style. Her instructions are confusing and very much compulsion based. If she's not there in September, I think my whole class will be glad.
Also, hopefully Chicago will cool down in two weeks, too. It's impossible to do anything constructive in heat. We were going to do run-throughs at the end of class, but it was way too hot. So, I said I just wanted to do recall.

We worked on recalls at home because Noelle was sitting too far back and anticipating recall. Double NQ territory. Uh oh! Noelle leaves on "Call your dog." So, I practiced calling all kinds of crazy things instead of Front. I practiced holding my treat between my knees in both hands. We practiced and practiced all week. 

In class, Noelle sat. Noelle did not anticipate my recall. Noelle came at warp speed. Noelle sat in front. She was crooked and slightly to my left, but did not tag me and was close enough for me to touch. Minor deduction, but overall a spectacular recall. I did get to reward Noelle for that and she lit up like a Christmas tree. 

Of course the trainer wasn't satisfied because it wasn't a perfect sit. I'll take a poor sit over an NQ any day! Sometimes I think trainers have assumptions that everyone in class is after a score of 199, because the trainers are after those scores for themselves. I'm not going to commit seppuku over not having a score in the 190's. Qualifying vs Not Qualifying is my goal. 

If I pressure Noelle for perfection using compulsion things go off the rails fast. You're right, Catherine, I do rely on shaping. Noelle wears a flat buckle collar and doesn't respond to any kind of leash correction. Well, she does respond to a leash pop. She sits on the floor, scratches her neck for 15 seconds, and then sniffs the floor for 15 seconds, then throws random behaviors and gives whale eyes. Imagine what she would do with a prong collar? Probably curl up in a ball and refuse to move. 

Noelle responds to shaping with better and better performances and leash pops with wilting loss of confidence. Which method would you use to train this dog? You're right, I'll have to speak to the trainer about following the Novice routine and about shaping. And no, I'm not gonna quit. I'll just stay away on super hot days!


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## reraven123

Click-N-Treat said:


> And no, I'm not gonna quit. I'll just stay away on super hot days!


Also keep in mind that you don't have to do what the instructor tells you to. If she keeps telling you to do something that you know is wrong for you and your dog, just say so and do it your way. You are always your dog's advocate, and you do what is right for her.


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## lily cd re

reraven123 said:


> Also keep in mind that you don't have to do what the instructor tells you to. If she keeps telling you to do something that you know is wrong for you and your dog, just say so and do it your way. You are always your dog's advocate, and you do what is right for her.


 Click I didn't really think you would stop, but I am glad to know the person who was so challenging to cope with is a temporary presence.


So right reraven. I have a person who comes fro routines every now and again. She believes she is right about everything and she certainly does know her dog better than I do, but she never shows anything as improved sometimes with two months between times I see her (and it isn't that she isn't training, she works at a different training facility). I used to try to offer suggestions, but she is very hostile about such so I shut up. For other people who are doing advanced work I generally phrase my comments along the lines of "here is what I would do if I had that issue." For new folks I always spend some time to get to know their goals before I decide what I will and won't comment on. If they are "pet folks" who cares about straight centered fronts? If they are interested in competing then I will tell them how to deal with crooked fronts.


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## Click-N-Treat

I think you have to train the dog you have on your leash, and not use a once size fits all approach. For my last dog, Honey, a good leash pop got her attention, kinda like, "Huh? Oh, yeah, listen, right. Sorry, I forgot. Thanks for the reminder." Noelle's reaction to the exact same leash pop would be, "That hurt! Help! Why are you hurting me? I feel sad. Do you still love me?" Honey was a hard dog. Noelle is softer than a microwaved marshmallow. You can't train a soft dog using hard dog techniques.

I can bring out the absolute best in Noelle simply by responding to her mistake as something silly she did. My correction is nothing more than an very playful sounding, "What was that?" Or, "Whoops! Let's try again." She will happily return to start and give it a second go. If she makes a mistake, I lower the criteria to a point where I am 100% certain she will get it perfect. Then I reward. Next time, raise the criteria back to the spot where she screwed up the last time. And boom, she gets it right. Raise the criteria higher still, and she gets it right again. If she fails, back to the beginning with me laughing, throwing up my arms and saying, "What was that?"

Noelle is an earnest, delightful, sweet, loving dog who will give me 100% of everything she's got, provided I honor who she is. If I fail to honor who I have on my leash, things go off the rails. I think the assistant trainer is familiar with training hard dogs and really doesn't understand how to motivate a soft dog, which makes for a frustrating class.


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## lily cd re

Yes you do have to train the dog that is sitting in front of you looking up expectantly! I try to be flexible on methods once I get to know people and dogs, but when I first meet teams I do tend to stick to the tried and true methods first.


And it can be really and understandably annoying/unwelcome to have people telling you what to do with your dog. You all may (or may not have seen) that Javelin and I had a rough weekend this weekend. He was very up-stressed both days. I asked to be excused before heeling was done both days. Since we were on Long Island I knew a lot of the stewards and other exhibitors. the range of comments from most helpful to least helpful were roughly: he has a lot of great spirit and he will be a great worker when he figures out the trial scene; I understand how you feel my dog is very similar; here are 50 ideas on how to fix him (well I don't think he is broken, just inexperienced); and finally from someone I don't know at all "you need to blah blah blah" to which I replied "I really am not able to listen to this right now" which was followed by "but you don't understand this is the miracle...blah blah blah" to which I bluntly said I don't want or need your comments since I don't know you or anything about you (that was on Sunday after I had been talking to the judge (who I have shown to with Lily many times and am friendly with) on the way out of the ring. I guess this random person saw me talking to the judge and decided I was open for a lecture???). Oh wow, I guess that is still bothering me since I thought I had let go of it and here I am venting, sorry....


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## Click-N-Treat

Oh, that kind of unwanted advice would upset me to no end! I like having my phone handy so I can pretend to talk to someone when stuff like that happens. And it is true, Javelin has wonderful spirit and delightful drive. He's going far. I know it!


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## lily cd re

Ahh the phone excuse...I never have my phone anywhere near me in the ring and I hadn't even gotten out of the ring yet when this woman started in on Sunday. So no fake phone call, but Saturday my phone was an annoyance since my mom annoyed me by text Saturday morning. We have a routine where she sends me a text to let me know she is okay everyday. Generally I get that message between 8:30 and 9:30, so I was concerned when I still hadn't heard from her at 10:30. I texted her and she wrote back that she didn't want to bother me while in the ring. I wrote back that it wouldn't have been a bother since I don't take the phone in the ring. she wrote back "whatever, good luck." OMG I was so frustrated by the whatever...


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## mvhplank

lily cd re said:


> Ahh the phone excuse...I never have my phone anywhere near me in the ring and I hadn't even gotten out of the ring yet when this woman started in on Sunday. So no fake phone call, but Saturday my phone was an annoyance since my mom annoyed me by text Saturday morning. We have a routine where she sends me a text to let me know she is okay everyday. Generally I get that message between 8:30 and 9:30, so I was concerned when I still hadn't heard from her at 10:30. I texted her and she wrote back that she didn't want to bother me while in the ring. I wrote back that it wouldn't have been a bother since I don't take the phone in the ring. she wrote back "whatever, good luck." OMG I was so frustrated by the whatever...


Ha!

Well, bless you for patience. My mom, in a care facility with Parkinson's, had the phone taken away after her second husband (her roommate) died. I think she just found it too hard to hold a conversation. At least I knew there were people around to check on her. 

I have a similar arrangement with a friend--I email her when I get moving in the morning. It's a nice routine and good to know someone is watching out for me.


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## lily cd re

Marguerite I am sorry your mom is suffering Parkinson's. It is an awful disease. A good friend of my mom's died of it last year.


I am grateful that at 82 years of age my mom is still independent, but she does have some character traits that can be really annoying. Small things though compared to dealing with nursing homes and the like.


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## mvhplank

lily cd re said:


> Marguerite I am sorry your mom is suffering Parkinson's. It is an awful disease. A good friend of my mom's died of it last year.
> 
> 
> I am grateful that at 82 years of age my mom is still independent, but she does have some character traits that can be really annoying. Small things though compared to dealing with nursing homes and the like.


Parkinson's is a cruel disease. Alas, Mom passed Dec. 29 last year, the evening after I started the 2-day drive to my old home town in northeast Alabama. The holiday weekend and waiting for my niece to arrive from vacation in Colorado meant I was away from home about a week. 

However, my sisters and I were (mostly) tolerant of each other, even though the only creature that didn't snore in the motel room two of us shared was the poodle! Friends and family, and one of our high school teachers, rallied around. We even saw cousins I thought lived several states away (they had moved back to town). Some of her caregivers came to the visitation and the service. Mom was treated with great care and respect in the nursing home, for which we were all grateful. And I'm not sure there are more courteous and thoughtful people than Southern funeral directors. (It must be a Southern thing.)

Mom's local church offered to feed the family one evening. The timing wasn't going to work, so my sisters and I suggested they send snacks to the nursing home staff in thanks for their loving care.

Then I drove back home in a snow storm, which I would have missed if my niece had been able to get there even a day earlier. Grrrr! Well, not her fault, really, but I needed something to gripe about, I guess.

And, while Neely had visited Mom a few times in the nursing home, we waited patiently in a crate in the motel room during services. Yet another reason to crate train your dog! You never know when his ability to chill out and wait will come in very handy.

-----------
Click 'n treat: I apologize for derailing your thread! Carry on--I love hearing about your training and trial adventures!


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## lily cd re

Yes, back to Noelle's Adventures!


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## Skylar

Click, you are a very savvy trainer and know your dog best.

I presume where you train it's the same as where I train - all the trainers are volunteers. Some are better teachers than others, some have broader experience with different types of dogs and some have read widely and attended many seminars to become familiar with different training techniques and ideas. 

I was lucky in a sense that my very first class I took a dog to for training was at a private facility where the trainer had the worst people skills and some questionable training techniques for dogs - certainly ones that don't suit a sensitive poodle. She did teach good training skills 80% of the time. Because she was making fun of a handicapped woman in class, saying nasty things to a young man and his mother etc. I was immediately alerted to the idea that I should take what I could that was positive and completely ignore the worst. If I had gone to a class with a better teacher, I might have felt that I had to take all the advice and not filter it as to whether or not it was right or us.


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## Click-N-Treat

Yes, it's all volunteer. I really like the club where I train. I'll just have to remember to stick up for myself when I have to. Noelle deserves it. I haven't done much training since Monday. I took a full day off on Tuesday because I was still grumpy and yesterday I was in chemo land. Tonight we'll work on Stand for Exam and really work on not moving those feet. I don't think Noelle realizes that she can't move her feet. So, I'll reward sticking her feet to the floor, and not reward any motion of any kind and see if she gets it.

The things we could NQ on during a trial...

#1. Noelle is so distracted by the new environment she forgets I exist. 

#2 Running completely out of the ring during a heel fast and running for a nice person's lap. Happened once in training and now I am paranoid. Please don't have us heel fast toward an ring gate opening.

#3. Going for a walk during stand for exam.

#4. Not coming close enough on recall. 

Those are the skills I need to work on, but of course, she could decide to do all the stuff I trained super hard perfectly and NQ on the ridiculously easy. Ha! We shall see.


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## lily cd re

Here are my thoughts on stand for exam/stand stays. When leaving my dogs for a stand stay or stand for exam I press a bit on their withers to generate a little push back up from them (oppositional reflex). For the novice stand for exam the judge will touch the head and then the withers and reinforce my last physical contact with them.


As a new thing I am starting to work on with Javelin to prepare for the open command discrimination exercise I made a "stand stick" by cutting a piece of flat molding to make two pieces I could stack and then wrap together with vet wrap. I put velcro patches on the stick as you can see and the other side of the velcro is on the long arms of a pvc box. My kitchen floor tiles are 12" on a side. Right now I am just teaching him "feets up" by standing him right by the stick and then putting his feet on the stick where the vet wrap (non-skid) is. He is starting to look for it when he sees the stick, but it is slow going. Once he has his feet on I tell him to stay and then gently try to knock him off by pushing on his withers and hind quarters. If he stays on he gets a treat. Once he is good for putting his feet on the stick with an order then I will attach it to the pvc and use the whole contraption as a way to keep him from moving his front feet as he changes positions (stand/down/sit in all combinations that show up in open).


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## mvhplank

Because I had shown Neely in conformation, he understood he was supposed to leave his feet where I placed them. AKC and UKC rules for the novice stand let you pose the dog as in conformation before you leave the dog. (Remember to return to heel position before you give the stay command.) I only posed the back feet and that seemed to get the message across to him. 

It actually worked well for the Novice stand, but it transferred incompletely to the moving stand in utility, since you're supposed to be way past telling the babies where to keep their feet.


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## zooeysmom

Click-N-Treat said:


> I'll just have to remember to stick up for myself when I have to. Noelle deserves it. .


If you don't remember, bring my sweet a** to your club--I will stick up for you and Noelle. I don't allow any trainer to tell me what to do with my dog or touch my dog unless it's using 100% positive reinforcement. My training idol, who has won everything there is to win in rally and obedience, uses only +R.


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## Click-N-Treat

I might just do that. No one leash pops Noelle. But, that fool trainer kept doing things that confused Noelle. 

Today during our practice, Noelle decided that forging ahead sounded like a plan. Uh oh! Time to reign that in. We'll work on Find the Left Leg drills. Noelle's stand was a kickback stand with no forward motion at all, though. Until we repeated it too many times. Then it was a frolic around like a lunatic and cross over in front and bark. Oh noes.

I'm so glad I get one shot at each exercise so Noelle's creative drive doesn't get going. Imagine if the trial involved nine perfect recalls in a row. I'd be completely screwed!


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## lily cd re

Anyone with a poodle would be screwed if the dog had to do nine repeats of anything they knew. With Lily she decides she must be wrong after just four repeats and with Javelin he gets creative after the fifth or so. Lily has said things like "but I sat perfectly at heel four times already, so if you are still making me do this I must have been wrong so I will sit crooked this time" many many times.


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## JenandSage

All of you are so inspiring with the amount of work you put in to train your dogs. Noelle sounds like such a lovely dog - softer than a marshmallow - as you said. You definitely know her best. I love to hear about her training. She’s a smart girl


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## Click-N-Treat

Does Noelle really know where heel is? How can I be sure she knows to line up in heel position? Well, I started with a nice chunk of Swiss cheese and a book on the floor. We did a few pivots. Then I asked, "Noelle, heel."
She pivoted into heel.
Ok, get rid of the book. Wait for a little distraction. "Noelle, heel."
Noelle found my left leg and sat straight. 
I took one step forward. Noelle followed my left leg.
I took one step backward, Noelle did not follow my leg. 
Half a step forward, follow, half a step backward, follow.
Spin around in a half circle, heel. Noelle found heel.
Run away from Noelle, stop. Call to heel. Noelle found heel.
Back to Noelle. Found heel again. 
Call from front. She found heel.
Call from the side. She found heel.
Call from the opposite side. She found heel. 

I think Noelle knows where heel position is!
So, if she forges ahead, I'll tell her no, silly, heel. Forging happens mostly when I fail to walk briskly. I need to practice my heeling pace without my dog again. Am I the only one who has put a leash clasp in their pocket, rolled up the leash in their hand, and practiced heeling without the dog? The handler needs training too, you know. Actually THIS handler needs more training than Noelle.

Still, tonight was really fun. I even screwed around and tried to get Noelle to leave heel position by pretending I didn't want her to heel. Go away. Why are you heeling? This is my leg. You can't be by my leg. Are you heeling again? Why are you heeling? If I go this way, will you still heel? What about that way? Can I trick you by going in circles? No? How do I get you to stop heeling? 

Did you hear Noelle laughing? Because she was laughing. So was I.


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## mvhplank

lily cd re said:


> Anyone with a poodle would be screwed if the dog had to do nine repeats of anything they knew. With Lily she decides she must be wrong after just four repeats and with Javelin he gets creative after the fifth or so. Lily has said things like "but I sat perfectly at heel four times already, so if you are still making me do this I must have been wrong so I will sit crooked this time" many many times.


I also am wary of drill-drill-drill. But sometimes (lately it's with go-outs for directed jumping) the drill is...

Put a treat (a bit of hot dog) out where I want him to stop. I send him out. He eats the treat and I yell "sit!"
Don't put a treat out, send him out, then run behind him, command "sit" when he reaches the end of the ring and give him a treat when he does.
Send again. If he doesn't go far enough, no treat but no fussing and start over.
Send the dog out. If he goes far enough to qualify, direct him to take one jump or the other. Treat him at front or finish.
Repeat.
Repeat.
Repeat.
Repeat.
End on success, even if you have to lower criteria a bit. Have a little party and move on to something else.

High-value treats really get his attention. If he didn't get that piece of hot dog that says, "yeah, that's what I want," then he definitely would start to get creative if I kept asking for the same thing again and again. 

Naturally, this is for _learning_ and maybe (in our case) _reinforcing_ a skill that's still a bit shaky. The treats fade as the skill improves--but so do the number of repetitions as he shows he understands the task at hand.

M


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## lily cd re

Marguerite I never put food at the go out. Lily very clearly knew if there was no food there vs. if there was and she made it clear that she wouldn't go if she wasn't going to find a cookie. I had to reteach go outs at least three times with long breaks and putting a new name on it. Not wanting to repeat that mistake with Javelin I started him with two foot go outs where he just had to go stand at the spot (on leash) and I would go to the gate and reach over and around it to feed him through the gate. Once he understood go to the gate and stand to wait for the cookie that way I put him on a flexi and gradually backed up while having Deb hand him the cookie once he got there. Once I could take the flexi off and have him wait for me to get there I gave him the cookie. Separately I worked the turn and sit at close distance on leash, then on the flexi at longer distances. He has the most kick ass go outs and he has never ever gone to the go out spot and found food there. His turn and sit had gotten a little slobby when I took the guides down to very small sticks so I am fixing that with broad jump boards as a channel, but think I can already take that down to pieces of gutters. But the clever nature of a poodle does mean you don't want to over do repetitions of anything.


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## Click-N-Treat

Today while working with my sit/down/stand frame I made an important discovery. Noelle is like a three-year-old singing the Alphabet Song. 100% certain on the tune, 75% certain on the lyrics. Noelle is not quite certain that Stand means get up on all four legs if she is in heel position. If she is in front of me, I get kickback stands from both a sit and a down. If she is in heel, Noelle might lie down or sit when I ask for a stand. She's guessing what I mean. Odd. 

Did I fail to teach Noelle to stand? Did I only teach Stand from a down? Did I only teach stand from the front? Did I rely on a lure for too long? Well, there's some kind of training breakdown. But, I have a plan to see if I can fix it.

I'm going to start with Noelle in front of me and ask for sit, down, stand in random order. Then we will release and do something silly. I'll have Noelle get in front again. I'll move from noon to 11 o'clock. Random run through of sit, down stand again. And goof off. Call to front, I'll move to 10 o'clock and do another random run through of sit, down, stand. Release, then finally try it in heel position and goof around again. 

Repeat this twice a day for the holiday weekend. Hopefully by Tuesday, Noelle is feeling really confident in all those different positions both in front and in heel. I'll keep you posted.


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## lily cd re

Your working plan sounds good.


Position changes do have to be dealt with separately from front and from heel. I also recommend working all of the changes with both signals and separately with orders. When they are super reliable at front also one should start to back away and do position changes at increasing distances. Even though you might not be thinking directly about open or utility doing position changes in all of these different modes sets foundations for the command discrimination in open, the drop on recall in open and the utility signals. Being able to do those position changes with either/or signals/orders is helpful for adjusting to different trial environments. In a noisy setting signals instead of orders work better. In a quiet trial I prefer to give orders.


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## Click-N-Treat

I was thinking of Stand for Exam to tell you the truth. Yes, the signal exercises in Open and Utility do have to be trained in all kinds of ways. Noelle and I started training drop on recall using Kikopup's towel method. Run to the towel, lie down on the towel when I say, run to me and sit. We'll gradually fade the towel. Noelle enjoyed the challenge, but I'm not going to work on that again until Noelle has her CD. The last thing I need is a perfect drop on recall during our upcoming trial. We're focused on those exercises. They're challenging enough!


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle is still guessing between Sit, Down and Stand. Even after all this time, she just doesn't seem to get the difference when I speak. Perhaps "sit" and "stand" sound to similar? Hand gestures mean more than words to Noelle, though, so I have a new plan. When I gesture with my mouth shut, she gets it right more than 75% of the time on the first try. 

We worked inside the frame for stand and that helped. I'm also only training with her flat buckle show collar and leash, so that collar and leash means fun and prizes await. Noelle now has a kickback stand and tucked sit, so she can change positions without moving around as much.

Do you have any fun signal games to play? I mean extra extra fun because Noelle gets sooo bored and then wants to run away and chew on her toy fox.


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## lily cd re

For lily I do an off leash heeling game where we do loopy paths and periodically I tell or signal her to stand sit or drop while I keep moving. Once I have gotten away from her I tell her to come back to heel. It does a couple of things, position changes, understanding that orders aren't always given at front or heel and finding her way back to heel from no special place. Javelin is not ready for that game yet, but I do have a game for positions that I use mostly at this point for drops without risking contaminating my novice recall. It also is a good marking a target kind of game. I load up with plenty of cookies and set Javvy up at heel. I toss a cookie and make sure he sees it go and land then I tell him to look and once he marks clearly I tell him to "get it." As soon as he makes the pick up I call his name and as he turns towards me to return I either throw another cookie off in another direction making sure he sees it and let him go to it directly, or as he is returning I tell and/or signal him to drop and then toss another cookie making sure he sees where it lands. Which of those might work for you depends on how clearly Noelle understands the individual parts of them. I have ring rentals this weekend. I will try to get some video of those two games to share.


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## mvhplank

We did something new in class this morning to work on attention in signals. Our instructor called it "Mother, May I?" 

We don't usually work in groups--it's more of a run-through class--but this was a group exercise so we could work around lots of distractions. We picked a spot around the ring with plenty of space from other dogs and had the dogs sit facing into the ring.

The instructor told us to stand our dogs, and then leave, milling around the ring, usually not very far, sometimes walking behind another person who was also milling around, but not behind the dog. If the dog looked away, say something to get his attention, and if he was watching, praise. Then she'd tell us to "down your dog" so we gave our signal. Praise and cookies when they did it. Then mill around some more before being told to give the sit signal, then more milling around before calling the dog.

On other days, during our individual run-through, we might walk back and forth between signals, or turn around. Neely has a clock in his head and he'll go down, or sit, or come when he things enough time has elapsed. That's a work in progress.


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## Click-N-Treat

Thanks for the game ideas! On Monday we're going to early training instead of our regular class. I can rent a ring for 15 minutes. Depending on how many people are there, I might get another 15 minutes. We're going to work on ring entry. Make eye contact and heel with me across the ring. We'll do a little heeling and sit, stay, get your leash practice, leave together, and then have a treat festival. I need to help Noelle break the association that treats are always available in the ring.

In practice at home, treats are in a box and I require more and more work before giving her a treat. She's coming along very nicely and I'm really happy with what Noelle is doing so far.


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle also has a clock in her head! Ok, I sat for 39.2 seconds and now I can do something else. AAAH! No, you stay you silly dog. Yup, i hear you. We'll play some games like that, too.


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> Noelle also has a clock in her head! Ok, I sat for 39.2 seconds and now I can do something else. AAAH! No, you stay you silly dog. Yup, i hear you. We'll play some games like that, too.


Since Neely went down on the 1-minute sit stay in Open (blowing a score of 192), he has been sitting for his meals. I start my cell phone stop watch and after a minute plus, I'll give him a little cookie (or not, if I'm in the middle of something). When I'm ready for him, I return to heel and say "OK" and pet and treat. I don't always do it in the same spot, but if he's out of view, I go check on him. He gets a little fussing and put in a sit again if he lies down.

My goal is actually 3 minutes and a bit more, which will make 60 seconds feel easy. But we also do UKC, which has an honor down stay (in the ring while the working dog does heeling and figure-8) and a group sit stay in Novice (handler in the ring) and Open (handler hides). I'm not going back into UKC Open until he finishes his UKC Utility title (2 legs to go). We don't have a chance to go to as many UKC trials as there seem to be available AKC and other trials like CDSP and C-WAGS.


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## Click-N-Treat

Yesterday I went to early training at my club and had a ring to myself. Noelle was extremely weirded out by being the only dog in the ring. I thought that was interesting. Heeling was a complete unmitigated disaster yesterday. She was just so overwhelmed by being alone with me in the ring. Where is everybody? This is the wrong training ring. What's going on? She did not give me focus or attention at all. I did get a spectacular recall, straight to me and a square sit, so there was that.

Still, I realized that new places make Noelle unsure of what's expected of her. That is interesting. Time to change up our practice routine. Today, as I was driving home from taking Click-N-Treat Jr. to work, I thought about things that I struggle with when working with Noelle in a new place. She's always more interested in the environment than in me. I need a new place to train. Somewhere distracting. Somewhere large enough where we can work on heeling. I thought about that as I passed a parking lot. I looked at all the lines on the ground.

You know, there's a huge public park right across the street from me. We could practice heeling in the parking lot. Follow the lines on the spaces to keep me centered and straight. Will this work? Only one way to find out. I took Noelle to the park. She was not interested in me at all. She wanted to look at the men working on the building across the street. She wanted to sniff bushes. She was barely interested in my treats. Noelle doesn't remember I am alive. This is not working like I planned.

Interesting!

What is going wrong? The greater the environmental distraction, the lower my criteria needs to be. Well, I'd already lowered my criteria to the point of clicking Noelle for looking at me for half a second. So, that's not my solution. What else can I do? I need a reward that is more interesting than the environment. Something novel. Something amazing. I packed up Noelle and drove to Burger King. I bought a grilled chicken sandwich. 

We returned to the park. I offered her a chunk of warm grilled chicken in exchange for a sit. Pow! Sit! I can sit. I can sit fast. I can sit faster than fast, and square, too, wanna see? Look at me, I'm in heel position. I am sitting and looking at you. Click! Treat! Wow! This is great! Click, treat. Click, treat. I am having so much fun, Mom! Looking at you and... Click! Yay!

Noelle, heel.
Oh, I knows how to heel. I can heel with you like this. And like this, and like that! And we just turned, and I'm still here. More chicken, please. Click! Yay! Click! Yay! This is the best thing ever. You're tricky, Mom, you just slowed down, down, down, slow. That was fun. I likes heeling slow. Let's heel some more. Oh, I'm too wide. Let me get closer like this and, click! Yay! You clicked! Yay! More chicken! Heeling is fun!

Today I learned two important things. One, my dog is a junk food junkie, and two, she responds to tremendous amounts of verbal praise while we heel. A steady stream of happy upbeat words from me, and she's right where I want her to be. 

Now I have a new training plan. Go to a random empty parking lot. Bring extremely high value rewards. Work on focus and attention in a new place every day. Fade the amount of treats she gets during practice. Fade the amount of verbal praises while we heel. Noelle needs to learn that in new places I have the same expectations. Look at me, pay attention, and follow my lead. It will be worth it.

I also have my ace in the hole for a trial. Go to Burger King, buy a grilled chicken sandwich. Before going in the ring, far away from the ring gate, offer her a few small pieces of chicken. Pretend I still have this miracle food when we go in the ring. Then let her indulge in a bunch of grilled chicken afterward.


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## lily cd re

Well lots of people do believe in jackpots after coming out of a trial ring, so BK grilled chicken sounds like the ticket. The plan overall sounds fine and dandy. New places, absence of the usual people and dogs are all variables that can make a dog's head fall off. Match time as many different places as you can find helps tremendously.


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## fjm

Sophy sailed through her CGC because she knew that as soon as we got back to our chair the chicken would come out. I read an interesting article by Eileen Anderson on this very topic: https://eileenanddogs.com/2018/09/11/variable-reinforcement-stronger-behavior/


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## Click-N-Treat

Today was long and Noelle is exhausted. We went to early training. I got to work one on one with Karen doing a Novice run-through. Karen's Newfoundland was doing an honor down in the center of the ring. We started with heeling. I screwed up a few things, and learned a lot about how to cue Noelle that we're changing pace. Her off leash heel was better than on leash because I learned a little more about body language.

Stand for exam was a few side steps to say HI Karen, I love you! This just needs a little more practice. Stand and stay silly girl. We did it three times and the third time was perfect. Noelle just needed a little reminder. 

Recall. Noelle came flying at warp speed, jumped up on my knees, sat. She did do a very nice finish. We did some practice with treats and drawing Noelle into a sit by raising the treat up just as she arrived. 

All in all, it was a good practice. And, I should have stopped there, but I did not. I went home, gobbled some dinner, and returned to my normal class. Karen was very nice to me, because Noelle was really tired and her brain wasn't all the way on. We did do figure eights and worked again, on body language. 

I left a little before the end of class. Did we go home? Nope, we stayed for Rally. We were, of course, the last people on the signup sheet, so we were there forever! We did some signs I'd never seen before. It was a clever mix of Novice and Masters. I got lost, though during the course. Once I see the signs, I know what to do, but figuring out how to get from sign to sign is hard work. Also, I didn't walk the course ahead of time because of overlapping classes. So, I admit I got lost. I was also really worn out so my brain wasn't there. 

Three classes in one day. My dog is exhausted. I'm wondering if I lost my mind. Next week we'll go to early training and Rally only. Sometimes three is a charm. Other times, not so much.


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## mvhplank

Three classes in a day might not be so bad if Noelle (and you) can have a bit of down time between classes. Do you take a portable crate in with you so she can just chill for a little while? BUT, now that I type that, I realize that she has to be on the job, too.

And if you have an hour-long lesson and run-through, that is probably enough by itself! Dogs need some down time to fully absorb the lessons they just learned (just like we do).

What I think may work is just sitting chill in a quiet corner while you wait your turn, and just doing some warm-up moves a few minutes before you go into the ring.

Neely and I have done as many as 4 obedience or rally entries in a single day, and it does take some work to get him back into the game late in the afternoon. But in between, he's in his soft crate, and I've even spotted him lying flat on his side, taking a nap (a very good sign!).


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## lily cd re

The important part of what you did yesterday IMO is that you made it like a trial day where you are entered in more than one class (novice and rally as will be the case for your trial upcoming). It teaches you how to pace yourself and how to keep Noelle fresh even when the day is long and such. Now that I am showing both Lily and Javelin (thankfully in different classes) the days are long with lots of down time and then a flurry of stuff to do and then down time and a flurry of stuff to do. It is a juggling act.


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## Click-N-Treat

Today we had a rally run-through, our best yet. I got some coaching from a rally competitor, like how to tell if you should do an offset serpentine left or right by position of the cones. Noelle did two perfect stand for exams as well.

Then we went to class. And that didn't go as well. Noelle just wasn't focused or connected to me. Someone, and I am not going to mention who, completely forgot to play ball in the yard before class. Noelle wasn't a wild child, exactly, just a ding-a-ling. I took Noelle's leash off. I told her to wait. I walked a way. I told her to come. Noelle hit the afterburners and flew straight to me and jumped on me. Twice. Arrguh! She hasn't done that in months.

Oh well. I can be happy with the rally run-through, Noelle's glorious slow heel, fast heel, and normal heel, with eye contact and joy. And her long sit. Other than that, class was a disaster, and that's OK. Now I know what to work on this week!


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## snow0160

Sounds like you’ve had a fantastic class. You’ve inspired me to go to a rally this Wednesday just to see how it goes. 


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## lily cd re

Click, one of the things that was emphasized at the performance psychology workshop I attended last weekend was the importance of routines. The ball play to connect with Noelle and scrub some energy off clearly has to be part of your routine just the way taking a good walk with Javelin before our ring call has to be part of mine.


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## Click-N-Treat

I absolutely screwed up yesterday. I discovered Noelle needs physical exercise before her brain will work. So, my plan on trial day is going for a long walk and then playing tug before we go in the ring. Tug really gets her excited and connected with me. The second day I'll play ball in the hotel room, go for a long walk, and play tug. 

This week we'll work on recalls and I'll heavily reward sticking the landing. Four perfect stand for exams yesterday made me really happy. I started training a year ago. A year ago, Noelle would either jump on the trainer as they approached, or collapse on her back and ask for a belly rub. I thought there was no way Noelle would ever do stand for exam. Now she can. Wow! I wonder what Noelle will be able to do next year? I'm on the road to find out!


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> I absolutely screwed up yesterday. I discovered Noelle needs physical exercise before her brain will work. So, my plan on trial day is going for a long walk and then playing tug before we go in the ring. Tug really gets her excited and connected with me. The second day I'll play ball in the hotel room, go for a long walk, and play tug.
> 
> This week we'll work on recalls and I'll heavily reward sticking the landing. Four perfect stand for exams yesterday made me really happy. I started training a year ago. A year ago, Noelle would either jump on the trainer as they approached, or collapse on her back and ask for a belly rub. I thought there was no way Noelle would ever do stand for exam. Now she can. Wow! I wonder what Noelle will be able to do next year? I'm on the road to find out!


I love the way you train! Wishing you all success!


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## Click-N-Treat

Thank you. I do love training. I was talking to my trainer, Karen yesterday. Service dog training, that I understand. I understand how to train a dog to go to the refrigerator, open the door, remove a can of Pepsi, bring it to me through the house, return to the kitchen, close the refrigerator door. This I know how to do. I know how to train a dog not to sniff shelves in a crowded store, to lie down on the floor in a restaurant next to a crouton and a pile of cheese. I know how to train a dog to sit in a pile of Doritos and not eat them. I can train a dog to fetch a $100 bill, a quarter, a dime, a credit card off the floor. I can train a dog to sniff out diabetes low blood sugar and wake me up before I have a seizure in my sleep. This I understand.

Rally signs, Open and Utility obedience exercises are mystifying. How do I get my dog to move with me fluidly in the ring? How do I train a dog to leap over a bar with a dumbbell? How do I train Noelle to fetch a specific glove? This is new to me. And in the ring I feel like Noelle is my first dog and I truly know nothing.


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## Mfmst

Click, I know I’m alone when I say you are a very talented trainer already. When you find the ritual that allows Noelle to get focused, she’s going to Q the heck out of everything. Cheering you on from Texas!


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> Thank you. I do love training. I was talking to my trainer, Karen yesterday. Service dog training, that I understand. I understand how to train a dog to go to the refrigerator, open the door, remove a can of Pepsi, bring it to me through the house, return to the kitchen, close the refrigerator door. This I know how to do. I know how to train a dog not to sniff shelves in a crowded store, to lie down on the floor in a restaurant next to a crouton and a pile of cheese. I know how to train a dog to sit in a pile of Doritos and not eat them. I can train a dog to fetch a $100 bill, a quarter, a dime, a credit card off the floor. I can train a dog to sniff out diabetes low blood sugar and wake me up before I have a seizure in my sleep. This I understand.
> 
> Rally signs, Open and Utility obedience exercises are mystifying. How do I get my dog to move with me fluidly in the ring? How do I train a dog to leap over a bar with a dumbbell? How do I train Noelle to fetch a specific glove? This is new to me. And in the ring I feel like Noelle is my first dog and I truly know nothing.


You know something (if you're as title-hungry as I can be)--you and your exceptionally well-trained dog can ace the first four levels of AKC Trick Dog without attending a trial. CGC evaluators can sign off on them. It still costs $$ to apply for the certificate, and whatever fee the evaluator asks, but they are fun titles to get. 

I'm discovering that tricks are a fun way to warm up in tight spaces. He has a high paw touch I think I may be able to turn into "patty cake" and a sit pretty.

Neely has finished AKC tricks through Performer. Now they've added "Elite Performer" and you have to submit a video for that one, with a certain number of props. I'm trying to figure out what to do for a script. 

... And, if you get a Q (not even a title) in three different venues (like obedience, rally, and tricks) you're automatically sent an Achiever Dog certificate.


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## Click-N-Treat

I already signed up Noelle for TKI and TKA tests in December. I'll ask if I can do a TKP as well. My last trial is mid November. Noelle already knows all the tricks for TKI, so I can goof around for a month teaching TKA and TKP tricks. Noelle really likes tricks and they are just silly to train. Sit up and beg is one I really want to teach, along with BANG and a dramatic fall to the ground on her side. That would be so funny!

Does playing the game, "If you're happy and you know it you will sit" count as a trick? Because I did the entire rally course singing If you're happy and you know it you'll turn like this. If you're happy and you know you'll heel with me. If you're happy and you know it and you really want show it, if you're happy and you know it go in front, and heel and sit, yay!

It was, in a word, quite hilarious. And yes, I am going to sing my way through the Rally course during trials. If you're happy and you know it you will _____ is my favorite focus game. I cannot lose my temper, or get frustrated, if I'm singing a stupid song like that. It reminds me to be happy and makes my dog happy too.


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## lily cd re

Here is a link to the AKC trick dog page with all of the applications so people can see what things will be able to be used at the different levels. https://www.akc.org/sports/trick-dog/resources/trick-dog-applications/


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## Click-N-Treat

Our first trial is on Friday. We went to training this afternoon. Noelle's attention was on everything but me during our rally run through. I got zero focus and Noelle was sniffing the floor and tuning me out. What a disaster! What happened? I could not get her attention. Oh what a nightmare. 

We worked on ring entrances and starting together for a while, and that helped get her head in the game. We went through the rally course with some attitude after that. Noelle needs a long warm-up before she's ready to work, apparently.

We did a run-through of Novice after that. We did heel on leash and that was rough. Noelle did not sit on the halts. We did a figure eight, and that was rough too. Again no sits on the halts. I felt the leash get tight as we went around the cone with the dog on the outside. Who is this dog and what have you done with Noelle? What is going on?

Then I took Noelle's leash off. Stand for exam, perfect. Heeling off leash, beautiful and fluid, with straight sits on the halts. Recall, straight to me with a square sit in front and a lovely finish. Sit, stay, get your leash, perfect. Leaving the ring under control, was brilliant. There's my Noelle. That's my girl! I really missed you! Thanks for showing up.

Today was a mixed bag of crazy!!!

We have a fun match tomorrow evening. Hopefully that goes better. I'll have to make use of warm-up time before we go in the ring, that's for sure. I thought it was peculiar how well she did off leash compared to on leash. It's almost as if the leash is a signal to tune me out. As soon as the leash came off, I had a focused dog. 

Maybe I haven't been praising and rewarding enough for on leash stuff lately. Truthfully, I've been worried about having a dog with the zoomies off leash, so I think I emphasized off leash more than on. Oops. Handler error. 

We'll polish our on leash skills and hope for the best on Friday and Saturday. And I'll jackpot the sits. I have a sinking feeling we will NQ every time we are in the ring Friday and Saturday. Honestly, I'm worried I'll look like a fumbling idiot on Friday and Saturday and everyone is going to roll their eyes at us and snicker behind our backs. 

I really looked like I had an untrained dog on my leash, especially during rally. Sniff the floor, back away, turn head toward opening door, sniff the floor again. Lag behind mom as she walks to the next sign. Kind of turn in a 360. Sigh and sniff the floor. Come front, and then turn sideways and look a the other dog in the next ring. Man, rally was a nightmare today.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Noelle has to get the stupid out of her system and will bring the magic, but I dunno.


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## lily cd re

Well first, obviously better to have problems now rather than in a trial. I have had many practice days that were awful but then good trials right afterwards. Do make sure you let go of worrying over how bad practice was, but rather learn from the things that went badly, like learning you need to practice ring entrances. I have done tons of ring entrance practices recently with Javelin and it is starting to pay off.

Almost all dogs do better on heel free than heel on leash. I think it is that they know they have to watch you better since they aren't connected to you. I do most of my heeling practice on leash though since I want that to be at least as nice as heel free. It is the first exercise and forms the judge's first impression.

I can readily attest to how important our demeanor down to the smallest changes in how we breathe and such is communicated to our dogs when we are standing at the gate waiting for the judge to say "Poodle number 270 and handler welcome to the _________ class." For me with Javelin I think deep breathing exercises are going to make a difference. On Saturday when I focused more on my breathing we had decent heeling, unlike Saturday where I wasn't so focused and got the up stress reaction of jumping around and grabbing my hand. I was at my home club in front of all of my dog sport friends. Nobody rolled their eyes or wondered why I was wasting anyone's time. For myself I think the most important people in dog sports are novice A handlers. You are the future of our sports because you have made the choice to train your dog, fill out the entry and show up on trial day. The first time I took Lily into a trial ring it was at an outdoor show and I never had practiced outside other than in our back yard. Heeling and figure 8 were barely acceptable and the instant I took the leash off for the stand for exam Lily took off and did the zoomies around the ring because she was so nervous she coudln't contain herself. I had to lie down on the grass to get her to come to me and be able to put my hand on her collar. Needless to say we got excused. The judge (who I swore I would never show to again) told me I should give up and do something easy like rally. Turns out (s)he is an alcoholic idiot. The woman who is now the president of my club came over after I got back to my crate and told me not to give up and not to be embarrassed because every other person there had a similar story to tell. Don't you know it a little while later an open handler in one ring threw her dumbbell for the retrieve over the high jump. A dog in the adjacent ring that was starting sits and downs saw it fly and jumped out of the novice B ring into the open ring took the dumbbell. It proudly then jumped back into its own ring and got into the line up for the sit with the dumbbell still in its mouth. Stuff happens.... 

No matter whether we Q or not we always will learn something about ourselves and our dogs. Being perfect the first time out is luck perhaps more than anything. Learning from the sometimes humbling things our dogs do makes for opportunities to improve.

Breathe, breathe, breathe and remember we chose to do these things, not the dogs. We want these activities to improve our relationships with our dogs, so we better be fun about it, even in the moments where we feel embarrassed, annoyed, disappointed...


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## reraven123

Click-N-Treat said:


> Maybe Noelle has to get the stupid out of her system and will bring the magic, but I dunno.


Nobody ever knows what their dog will do in the ring. It is our dogs' job to keep us humble!


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## snow0160

The ups and downs of training is very real. I really appreciate you posting about it. Lucky and I had an off day today and I wasn’t quite sure why. In the past few weeks he has been on fire and I was so proud. Then today he just shut down.

I don’t know much about completions but I can relate. It is understandable to be nervous before exams. The best way to do it is with a positive attitude. Pretend your dog is a rockstar and that kind of confidence will be fantastic for Noelle! I do this all the time for presentations and meetings. It is really important to be confident even if you have to lie to yourself for a while. It helps pick up your mood and kick the anxiety to the curb. 

Don’t worry about Friday and just pretend you are going to class for practice. Pretend you already have that beautiful ribbon! You are just going to demonstrate to the onlookers how it is done!




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## Click-N-Treat

Deep breathing, and bring the fun. Yes, fun. Because it's fun being with my dog. I forget this when Noelle is busily sniffing the ring and forgets I exist, and the judge is asking, "Are you ready?" And my dog is 100% not ready, and I'm flustered and feeling stupid, and my leash is unspooling. Leashes make me feel like I'm six-years-old, my shoes are untied and I can't remember if I make the bunny ear go through the hole or not. I am clumsy and unsure of myself, but I'm going for it anyway. Because this is the first step, even if I get tangled in my leash. 

I only know one thing for sure about Friday. I have a hotel room. Directly outside of my hotel is a pizza joint. No matter what happens, if Noelle Q's, NQ's, wins first place, takes a leak on the judge's shoes, or if I fall on my face in the ring, I am eating pizza and drinking beer in my hotel room with my dog. THIS is what I am focusing on. Pizza and beer. I have my priorities straight!


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## lily cd re

reraven123 said:


> Nobody ever knows what their dog will do in the ring. It is our dogs' job to keep us humble!



Actually we should train enough that we think we know what will the dog will do. If we get surprised then we need to train some more and make sure we really believe that the dog knows its job. Most of the time if we get surprised and we really think the dog knows its job we are acting differently (ring nerves for us = ring nerves and "humbling" responses from our dogs.


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## Click-N-Treat

I agree that you can have at least an educated guess what your dog might do in the ring. For example, I know that my dog under stress will sniff the floor and scratch her ear. I also know that her attention is either total or zilch. If I have total attention, I know that Noelle is going to sail through everything, like she did once the leash came off today. 

So, I know that I can head off the scratching and the ring sniffing by playing touch and keep her focused on me. I can also pre-load her with some treats and fun before we go in the ring. Get her from her crate and happy happy happy her to the ring and play touch before the judge gives her first order. If I intervene before I lose her attention, we'll do just fine. 

That's what I'm hoping anyway.


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## Skylar

It's okay if you don't qualify - tons of people don't in a trial and it's nothing to be embarrassed about. Some people in my class told me that they had something like a dozen NQ's in beginner novice before they finally got their first leg. I saw plenty of people NQ while I was waiting for our turn. I think one of the things I learned this past weekend is Babykins and I will NQ more than we will Q over our dog sport career and it's okay. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. 

Whether you Q or NQ - there's still pizza and beer is a great attitude. I think just showing up and competing makes you a winner.

You know where you need to polish and you have a plan. I think you and Noelle will pull it together and do wonderfully this weekend. I'm sending you and Noelle the absolute best luck.


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## reraven123

lily cd re said:


> Actually we should train enough that we think we know what will the dog will do.


Absolutely we should think we know. If we don't, we shouldn't be in the ring. But I always keep in my mind that my dog has totally different priorities and perceptions than I do, and my goals are not his goals. So if he feels the need to do something unexpected in the ring I try really hard not to take it personally, and not to take it too seriously. He's a dog, and he has a right to be a dog, and to react to things the way he needs to react to them. 

Take notes and train some more!


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## mvhplank

I was at a CDSP trial several years ago and a noted trainer and instructor (you might recognize her name, if I shared it) blew a very high score and perhaps the only HIT she didn't get that weekend, when her dog ran out and brought back the wrong glove. 

The judge said, "I'm sorry." The trainer shrugged and said, "It's diagnostic." It was the best reaction I'd seen to a big, fat fail ... something went wrong, the world didn't end, and she had an idea about how to either train more or adapt her command or signal.

The thing I had to get used to, moving from being an enthusiastic, experienced rally competitor to a very novice and occasionally inept obedience handler was the very high failure rate in obedience runs, particularly as you move up through the harder levels. There are so many things that are an automatic NQ, especially as compared to rally. But it's very hard to proof for everything in practice--sometimes you just have to get into the ring and see what happens.


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## Click-N-Treat

A judge telling someone to never come back is horrible, by the way. Zoomies and having to lie down on the ground to get the dog back would have stopped 99% of people from continuing. I am glad you kept going. I am proud of you for continuing. That shows what kind of a person you are. 

Adversity can and will crush people. It's part of life to be knocked down. The real trick is learning how to get back up. And there's no timer ticking saying, "You need to be over ____ experience by ____ date." I believe in the value of wound licking. Why is it when we get our spirits broken we get very upset that we're not over it quickly, but when we break a leg we're ok with giving the bone time to heal? Is the spirit harder than bone, capable of taking any wound and not breaking? 

The is value in failure beyond learning what doesn't work is using it to help others. When we share our failures and our perseverance, we inspire one another to stand back up. We all need help to stand, not to fall. That's why I am sharing my training errors and mistakes as well as victories. Thank you for sharing yours, Catherine. It really matters.


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## Skylar

Click-N-Treat said:


> A judge telling someone to never come back is horrible, by the way. Zoomies and having to lie down on the ground to get the dog back would have stopped 99% of people from continuing. I am glad you kept going. I am proud of you for continuing. That shows what kind of a person you are.
> 
> Adversity can and will crush people. It's part of life to be knocked down. The real trick is learning how to get back up. And there's no timer ticking saying, "You need to be over ____ experience by ____ date." I believe in the value of wound licking. Why is it when we get our spirits broken we get very upset that we're not over it quickly, but when we break a leg we're ok with giving the bone time to heal? Is the spirit harder than bone, capable of taking any wound and not breaking?
> 
> The is value in failure beyond learning what doesn't work is using it to help others. When we share our failures and our perseverance, we inspire one another to stand back up. We all need help to stand, not to fall. That's why I am sharing my training errors and mistakes as well as victories. Thank you for sharing yours, Catherine. It really matters.


Click. That’s beautifully written and inspirational. I will think of this every time we compete.


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## snow0160

Click-N-Treat said:


> A judge telling someone to never come back is horrible, by the way. Zoomies and having to lie down on the ground to get the dog back would have stopped 99% of people from continuing. I am glad you kept going. I am proud of you for continuing. That shows what kind of a person you are.
> 
> Adversity can and will crush people. It's part of life to be knocked down. The real trick is learning how to get back up. And there's no timer ticking saying, "You need to be over ____ experience by ____ date." I believe in the value of wound licking. Why is it when we get our spirits broken we get very upset that we're not over it quickly, but when we break a leg we're ok with giving the bone time to heal? Is the spirit harder than bone, capable of taking any wound and not breaking?
> 
> The is value in failure beyond learning what doesn't work is using it to help others. When we share our failures and our perseverance, we inspire one another to stand back up. We all need help to stand, not to fall. That's why I am sharing my training errors and mistakes as well as victories. Thank you for sharing yours, Catherine. It really matters.




This is applicable for so many things in life and seeing this post today really helped me.


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## Johanna

Click, that was a post to remember!

I plan to start back in agility when Zoe comes home and eventually train rally and/or obedience.

I am a bit leery regarding obedience since I am not a very good trainer. Years ago I bred a really nice standard poodle bitch that I wanted to have obedience titles as well as her Ch. I trained quite thoroughly I think, and took her to some B matches. She did quite well.

Then came the day I entered a trial under judge Merrill Cohen. When he asked "Are you ready", I looked down at Sabrina and she had a positively evil look in her eye. As soon as we went off lead, she proceeded to go around ringside offering a paw to spectators. Then she did a "sit up cute", smiling at the crowd all the time. Merrill was convulsed with laughter at her naughty performance. I collected my bad girl and told Merrill that I would see him again in a few weeks with a reformed poodle.

I drilled like mad during the few weeks between trials and took her to places where there were great distractions. All to no avail - she KNEW the difference between a trial and practice. She repeated her naughty behavior again.

At about that time I had her hips xrayed - and she did not pass. So I had her spayed and gave her to a friend who was the obedience chairperson of our club and who had UDT dachshunds. I figured that anyone who could put a UD on a stubborn little wiener dog could surely handle a poodle. Now this woman had recently had an ugly divorce and her ex was stalking her. The reason she wanted my spoo was because her Great Dane had died and she wanted a big dog for protection. The first time her ex came around, Sabrina showed him a serious set of teeth and drove him away. Well, that made her a star with my friend and she lived happily ever after! However, she never even got a CD!

I hope I have better luck with Zoe - but she, too, is pretty naughty.


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## lily cd re

Johanna I am laughing hard enough to almost fall off my chair.


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## Click-N-Treat

I really needed that. Tonight we had a match. Noelle's performance could have been set to the Benny Hill music. It was horrible. She zoomed. She jumped on the judge. She was a total wild child. I was asked by the judge if Noelle was in beginners class. We've been in advanced Novice class for a year. The only thing that went well was sit/stay get your leash. Everything else was a total disaster. 

I was so distraught I considered not even bothering to go to our trial on Friday. But then I remembered something I learned in orchestra. If you're gonna make a mistake, make a loud one! Always make loud mistakes in rehearsal because that's how you know where to practice before the performance. 

Well, tonight was loud all right. I know what went wrong. Maybe Friday I'll figure out how to fix it. Or I'll have hilarious stories of my own first trial. Either way, it'll be OK.


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## lily cd re

As I said to you elsewhere it is better to find out what can go astray in practice than in a trial. I have sometimes had some really horrible practices right before good trials. I wish for the same for you.


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## mashaphan

ok.back to when I was 12 with the mpoo that my mother (thankfully!) showed-George was clever, If it was hot,(we showed outside),he went under the judge's table and sat. In open,he would go to the nearest black standard female once mom left the ring. (once,i stood outside the ring and glared at him-he just turned his head away from me, and sidestepped to the black standard.) Is it any wonder when I started showing my Airedale,I would not enter the next show until we passed the previous. Once she walked over a broad jump,we never went back. Tried obedience w/the IW-no way. So we went to conformation w/the whippets!

Che refused a jump once,and I got hysterical. My current rally/ob buds said "let it go"-I got up the next day,we were both still breathing,I still loved him-life goes on. This Spoo,though,...if he only had a brain:aetsch:

Martha et al


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle and I went to our first ever trial. Rally score 89 and a first place. Way to go, Noelle! She was unimpressed by the ribbons, but really enjoyed her new bunny toy. She destroyed it before I got a picture. Before this trial, I promised myself beer and pizza, and yes, I kept that promise.


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## snow0160

This is the best news all week! I love the photos of cute Noelle with the ribbons. I also had pizza today. It is a cheat day or week. I am so proud of you guys! I knew you guys are gonna do great! 


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## zooeysmom

Congratulations, Click and Noelle! You must be pleased as punch. They don't give those beautiful rosettes out at most trials here, just cheap flat ribbons. Ha! Well, please share your experience after you've rested and recovered


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## Johanna

Hurrah for Noelle and Click! Congratulations!


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## fjm

Congratulations! I love the photo of Noelle being very ho-hum about boring old ribbons - I hope she got a taste of pizza too!


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## Skylar

I’m beyond thrilled for you and Noelle. That’s fabulous. That beer and pizza must have tasted wonderful.


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## lily cd re

Congratulations. It is funny about dog toy prizes. I've seen dogs destroy them almost before they get out of the ring, but Lily is very careful with them, plays lots with them, seems to think they are her most special toys, but is really nice with them. Some of her very first toys she won are still around.


Specialties often have nice prizes. Is there conformation also?


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## reraven123

Wonderful start to a joyful journey for you and Noelle. So happy for you both!


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## chinchillafuzzy

HUGE CONGRATS Click and Noelle! You guys have worked so hard and it is paying off. Keep up the amazing work.


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## Click-N-Treat

Thanks everyone for cheering on Team Noelle and Click! We are back from our very first trial, and we won two legs in Rally Novice. Whoo hoo!!! 










Gosh that was fun. If you ever get a chance to do rally or obedience at a poodle specialty... GO! I was surrounded by 58 poodles of all sizes and it was poodle bliss. Poodle people everywhere. Poodles everywhere. Such bliss! My training club has a show in November and wouldn't it be wonderful to finish her title at my own club? I'll enter both days and hope for the best.

However...

We NQ-ed in obedience twice. The first NQ on Friday could have been set to the Benny Hill music. Noelle was just everywhere except where she should be. She refused to sit, too. Today she did a lot better, but was still unsure of her every move. The judge today said obedience confuses Noelle. I totally agree with her assessment. It's like I brought two completely different dogs into the same ring. 

Noelle was tail up, engaged, with focus and eye contact during rally. She was tail down, scratching herself and obviously confused during obedience. She's looked like a kid taking a math test and seeing a crazy story problem.

_A train leaves Chicago at 3:15 am, averaging 30 mph.
Another train headed in the opposite direction leaves Chicago at 4:45 am, averaging 41 mph. To the nearest mile, how far are the two trains from each other at 5:45 am?_

Well now, I think I speak for the vast majority of people when I say... HUH? That's Noelle in traditional obedience. She's guessing what to do, guessing what I expect of her, and unsure of herself. She has no drive and no confidence. The judge pointed out that Noelle is confused and doesn't understand obedience at all. I think that's why she got in front of me on Friday and started frantically barking during our heel free, and wandered off today during heel free.

Did Noelle just pick up her math book and throw it on the floor? Maybe. Maybe Rally suits her better than obedience? I don't know what to do, because I love obedience. I feel like a math professor who's kid struggling with dyscalculia. We have a mismatch. I don't know how to proceed from here on obedience. I do know one thing, we love rally! Whoo hoo! 

If any of you have suggestions on how to go forward with obedience let me know. Until I know what to do, rally ho!


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## Asta's Mom

Way to go, Click and Noelle. Maybe obedience is just not her thing.


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## lily cd re

That is a wonderful novice A first outing for you two. Congratulations on those wonderful rally placements. I am going out in a few minutes for the food store, etc, but when I get back I will post about what to do with obedience (and stopping is not at all what I am thinking).


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## lily cd re

Click-N-Treat said:


> Gosh that was fun. If you ever get a chance to do rally or obedience at a poodle specialty... GO! I was surrounded by 58 poodles of all sizes and it was poodle bliss. Poodle people everywhere. Poodles everywhere. Such bliss! *Specialties are tons of fun! *My training club has a show in November and wouldn't it be wonderful to finish her title at my own club? I'll enter both days and hope for the best.
> 
> However...
> 
> We NQ-ed in obedience twice. The first NQ on Friday could have been set to the Benny Hill music. Noelle was just everywhere except where she should be. She refused to sit, too. Today she did a lot better, but was still unsure of her every move. The judge today said obedience confuses Noelle. I totally agree with her assessment. It's like I brought two completely different dogs into the same ring. * I don't think it is confusion. I think it is about level of preparation in part and handler issues in part. I will elaborate below.
> *
> Noelle was tail up, engaged, with focus and eye contact during rally. She was tail down, scratching herself and obviously confused during obedience. She's looked like a kid taking a math test and seeing a crazy story problem.
> 
> _A train leaves Chicago at 3:15 am, averaging 30 mph.
> Another train headed in the opposite direction leaves Chicago at 4:45 am, averaging 41 mph. To the nearest mile, how far are the two trains from each other at 5:45 am?_
> 
> Well now, I think I speak for the vast majority of people when I say... HUH? That's Noelle in traditional obedience. She's guessing what to do, guessing what I expect of her, and unsure of herself. She has no drive and no confidence. The judge pointed out that Noelle is confused and doesn't understand obedience at all. *On a different note about the judge's comments I think that was harsh to say to an A handler. When I judge matches for newbies I always find two nice things to say and I sandwich my suggestions for improvement between those comments. *I think that's why she got in front of me on Friday and started frantically barking during our heel free, and wandered off today during heel free. *Did you give a second order to her when she went off the rails? You can! It is points, but not an NQ (even in utility during the heeling (but not for the signals)). This is a matter of experience and you will get better.*
> 
> Did Noelle just pick up her math book and throw it on the floor? Maybe. Maybe Rally suits her better than obedience? I don't know what to do, because I love obedience. I feel like a math professor who's kid struggling with dyscalculia. We have a mismatch. I don't know how to proceed from here on obedience. I do know one thing, we love rally! Whoo hoo!
> 
> If any of you have suggestions on how to go forward with obedience let me know. Until I know what to do, rally ho!



This was your very first trial and for novice A handlers there are a lot of ring nerves involved and it doesn't always go as you think it will based on your training. I think that no matter how well prepared and confident we think we are we are always nervous and projecting that to our dogs without realizing it. As soon as the first thing goes wrong we get more stressed out and so does the dog,especially since the first things we do are on leash and the dog is physically connected to our energy. I am not an A class handler, but freely acknowledge that this is what Javelin and I are figuring out these days. 

I think you should revisit your foundational attendance exercises and practice everything as it will be in trials as much as you can to show Noelle that what will happen is entirely predictable (which it is) and to rehearse as best as possible for ring nerves and such. I am thinking back to the rough aspects of the matches you had just before the trial, including as I recall a syrupy sweet "judge" fawning at Noelle. While those events are a freak out at some levels (OMG this will ruin everything) they are also fantastic opportunities to rehearse for all of the things that can and sometimes do happen in trials. Disorganized judges, stewards who are your friends, food on a table near a ring, stewards who don't really know what they are doing, jumps at the wrong height, unanticipated bathroom breaks all occur. Your goal is to keep your dog ready and focused despite all of those things. Once that happens you will look at your dog when the judge as if you are ready and you will see him or her smiling up at you and you will answer yes with confidence. That will give you happy heeling and great figure 8s nice, recalls and all the other good things that we come to take for granted in training.


Also either buy or download both the obedience and rally rule books and study them. They are the text books for these courses and the teachers better know what is in them. I am thinking about the fellow exhibitor who seemed to tell you you could do an RAE title from the A classes here. I never trust anyone about what things mean in rally signs or for obedience or rally rules other than the books and a very small group of people I know very well. I've been excused by people who didn't know that it isn't a problem to have a dog leave a rally ring if I can get it back with no one touching it and had scored loused up by stewards who didn't know what they were doing too. All opportunities to learn.....


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## Click-N-Treat

I think we need to work on attention, focus, and distraction. I want it to be Noelle's responsibility to pay attention to me, rather than my responsibility to keep her attention. That's the big gap in our training.


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## Click-N-Treat

And I probably should have said a second order to heel. Didn't occur to me. She just checked out, and so did I. Maybe it was harsh, but I didn't take it that way. Noelle really is confused. It's the most accurate description I could come up with, too. 

Still, it was a good outing. Apart from off leash heel, she recalled straight to me and sat. Sit/stay get your leash she stayed and didn't move. I've got a ton to work on, and that's ok.


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## lily cd re

Click-N-Treat said:


> I think we need to work on attention, focus, and distraction. I want it to be Noelle's responsibility to pay attention to me, rather than my responsibility to keep her attention. That's the big gap in our training.





Yuppers, that is the key to it!


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## mvhplank

I did quite a bit of rally with Neely before we tried obedience. And I'm still trying to get used to the dismally high rate of failure in obedience versus rally.

It seems to me that silence from the handler (no way around it, really, in obedience) is being perceived by the dog as "I'm not right / correct / doing what I should." No doubt Catherine will have some ideas about how to silently tell the dog she's right after all. Maybe short little heeling exercises, then say out loud, "Exercise finished ... good girl!" (Lure, if necessary, to get started.)


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## Click-N-Treat

You need a huge tolerance for failure to compete in Utility, that's for sure. I watched a lovely silver standard do an absolutely flawless utility run until she refused the last jump, twice in two days. So breathtaking to watch her run, and so disappointing to see the result be NQ.


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## Mufar42

I think Noelle is amazing and that you have done a suburb job with her, She is truly a working dog with a 24/7 job and on top of that competing. Amazing to me.


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## snow0160

We have this problem with Lucky. It is hard to find a balance between nerves and energy. But remember that you guys did a fantastic job with rally which seems like something you both enjoy.

ETA: people I’ve talked to graduates rally and do obedience. They find that obedience is a lot more challenging and requires a lot more practice...maybe you could rent the ring early. I know a young golden retriever who is also a service dog and he excels at obedience at under two years. It doesn’t shut down and is highly confident but his owner does a lot of drills and they practice frequently.


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## lily cd re

But there are people with multiple UDX and OTCh dogs that get those titles rather quickly. If you ask them why the NQ rates are so high they will tell you that many people enter too soon.


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## Click-N-Treat

Entering too soon is exactly what I was thinking. The next time I enter in obedience, I want Noelle to be able to walk into the ring, look me in the eye and say, "I've got this. Wanna show them how this is done?"

I thought a whole lot about who Noelle is last night. Noelle learns everything easily. She generalizes extremely poorly. She's also an extremely sensitive dog. During service dog training, she made a mistake at the fish counter in our local store. I got very upset with her. For the next two months, every time we went near the fish counter, Noelle's tail drooped, her ears drooped, her body language hunched because we were at the mom angry place.

One correction. Two months of waiting for it to happen again. It took three months to convince Noelle that the problem was not a 10 foot square area on the floor that was upsetting. Every time she stepped there, pow, sad dog. She learned this was a bad place. Ever since then, I've been careful about how I correct Noelle. The good news is, she also learns where she was heavily rewarded and looks to me to get more in those places.

I've done 98% of Noelle's obedience training in group classes. And she does really well in group classes. What she does not understand is that the pattern of Novice is the same in a ring when there are no other dogs and a judge. She doesn't understand that we can do a heeling pattern starting west to east, or starting north to south. Those are not the same things. She doesn't understand that we can do Novice exercises in any ring, starting in any direction. She is confused. 

In rally, because I am there rallying her on, we can overcome confusion together. In Novice, I can't do that. So, we're not going to group classes for Novice anymore. I've gotten all I am going to get out of them. We're going to early training on Mondays and do the Novice heeling pattern in each ring, going in any possible direction. We'll do this every Monday for two months. Then we will add in the figure eight and do that for two months. Starting at any place in any ring, going in any direction. Heel, figure eight. Heel, figure eight, stand. Heel, figure eight, stand, heel free. Heel, figure eight, stand, heel free, recall. Heel, figure eight, stand, heel free, recall, sit stay get your leash.

If we do this pattern, week after week, month after month, in all three rings, in any direction, that will help Noelle generalize that THIS is the routine. And it can be in any ring. Meanwhile, we'll continue doing rally to get trial experience and happy memories in different rings. Then one day we will try obedience in a ring and see if all of our repeating games have helped her generalize.

Entering too early is something I learned not to do the hard way! If we're going to do obedience, Noelle needs to know what to expect instead of standing in against a ring gate looking back at me from 15 feet, being utterly confused what to do next. The judge, as she NQ-ed us, spoke like she felt sorry for Noelle. Your dog is confused. The "poor sweet baby girl" part was unspoken, but came through loud and clear. It was not harsh. It was very kind and as accurate as could be. Noelle was confused. 

We will work on this slowly. Next time we enter, I want Noelle to be the exact opposite of confused. Confident, tail wagging, grinning up at me and saying, "Mom, let's rock this thing!" Noelle is two. She will be 3 on Halloween. We have time. Lots of time. 

Sometimes the fastest way to train your dog is to go slowly.


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## mvhplank

I don't think there are any Companion Dog Sports Program trials near you right now, but I did find some Illinois trial officials--judges and reps--that you might ask about upcoming trials. Registration isn't very expensive. 

I keep telling people how great the venue is as a transition into more "serious" obedience, or just as a more fun, lower pressure form of obedience.

You certainly may talk to your dog, though continuous chatter may be penalized. Extra commands cost 3 points, so use them wisely. Occasional praise is free. AND in that moment between the words "Exercise finished" and taking your first step to the next exercise, you may give the dog a treat. (If you drop it on the floor or the dog spits it out, it costs 5 points.)

I'm a judge in that venue, and have been for a number of years. The trials are friendly and folks like to help each other and give encouragement. I'll be the first to admit the bar on performance is not as high as the one the AKC sets, but precision is rewarded. I have started to see the local OTCH handlers show up as a way to tune up their dogs while still earning Qs toward titles.

Here's all kinds of exhibitor information. Also CDSP Trial Officials.


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## lily cd re

It is the same for people, rush to failures and set backs and be deliberative and purposeful and reach your goal in one clear path. There is a moral to the story of the tortoise and the hare.


Many of my students are hares, few are tortoises. I just had a student from fall 2016 visit with me in my office to talk about a letter of recommendation for him for combined BS/MD programs. Part of what he articulated to me was feeling that life was passing him by since if he went to get an undergrad degree and then separately applied to medical schools he would be old (all of 28) by the time he finished. I think he will be fine and I will support his applications with letters. What really annoys me are the myriad number of students who apply to nursing and other programs without having finished the prerequisites for the program and then expect that I will not hesitate to overtally my microbio class just for them because they are in a hurry. 



The only way having a stumble is bad for us is if we don't learn anything from them.


Click, renting and treating that training as you plan to sounds good. Make sure you can have a "judge" and a steward or two as you go along to help make it like a trial.


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## Click-N-Treat

I'll look into Companion Dog Sports for sure!

I have friends at early training. They would be more than happy to act as judges, stewards, and all that. I'm just thinking about what Noelle needs to generalize. I stayed in group classes too long. She knew the exercises well, but it didn't transfer over at all. Next time, with Open, we'll do group classes until Noelle knows what to do, and then we'll do the same slow process of generalizing. I might not take a whole year building up from heel to sit/stay get your leash. But, that process of gradually adding in more exercises, while moving from ring to ring, area to area, will be a huge help to her.


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## Click-N-Treat

Rally Novice signs in our class today were every single variation of Call Front _____. Noelle did not come front or sit at all. Not once. Something has gone wrong. During our last trial, Noelle struggled with Call Front. I almost IP'd the first day and did IP the second day on a Call Front _____ sign. It was our only major error on that run. Tonight she refused every single Call Front _______. 

I came home to an email from the trial secretary about our rally trial November 3. Leg 3, or NQ could hinge on Come Front _____. Every other sign she loves. Noelle's favorite rally sign is Left About Turn. I turn left, she runs around right, and she is snappy with that one. She likes anything to do with cones. Noelle likes turning in circles with me. Loop left, loop right, diagonals, about turns, 270 degree turns, fast forward from a sit, we've got this. We do. Slow. Normal. Oh, this is great. We're having so much fun.

Call Front Finish Left Forward. 

Did you hear that? That's the sound of a beautiful rally run slamming into a brick wall at high speed. 

Why is this so hard in the ring and so darn beautiful everywhere else? Even directly outside of the ring she'll do it. Inside of the ring? Nope, no, no way, not gonna do that. No. Since I'm not a dog psychologist, I can't put her in therapy and talk over why she doesn't like this position. Perhaps it triggers feelings of vulnerability or inadequacy, or reminds her of that time in third grade when the bully pulled her tail. Why really doesn't matter to me. What does matter is getting Noelle to step her fluffy butt out of heel and sit in front of me.

My goal is to convince Noelle that Call Front ________ signs are her absolute favorite. I'm going to Burger King and buying her a chicken sandwich. Cut it in small pieces. Take Noelle to a somewhat distracting location and trade chicken for Call Front. Then, I'll randomize it. Six pieces, none, three pieces, 14 pieces, none, none, nine pieces. Go somewhere else slightly more distracting and repeat. 

At home, I'll make it into a silly game we play for fun. Call front finish left and POW look your toy fox escaped my pocket. Go get it, quick! 

Call Front ______ signs are going to become our favorite signs. 

That's a trick I learned from my first cello teacher. If there was ever a passage of music that I struggled with, I was to practice it until it was my favorite part of the piece. Practice until I looked forward to it, rather than dreading it. 

Clearly, Noelle needs more practice with Come Front _____ signs. Tonight was diagnostic and I am grateful for getting a chance to see a gaping hole in our training. Onward and upward.


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## mvhplank

Interesting--I had a problem with come-front signs at the last AKC rally trials we attended. A costly problem, since there are no retries in the Master class and each performance error was a non-recoverable IP. Two scores of 70 on Saturday (I think the judge was being generous!) were deflating when I know the dog is capable of high 90s and the occasional 100.

But I gave it a good bit of thought and decided my cues on Saturday looked like a go-around signal to the dog. I threw out my obedience ring habits of under-signaling the dog for everything--come fronts plus spins (left) and twirls (right). Two hands for everything! The bending and gesturing (and pleading) with all I had would never have passed an obedience test. Oh, yes, and hot dogs for practicing the come front.

It paid off on Sunday with two passing scores much closer to what I had expected, an 86 and a 90 (10 points lost when Neely threw in an extra sit on a halt-pivot-forward sort of sign).


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## lily cd re

Marguerite good point about using a more obvious signal when needed. How many time have we seen people doing call fronts who turned at the waist/hips to the left, bent at the waist and threw both their hands out over and past the dog's head at heel to essentially lure them to front? If we each had a dollar for all the times we have seen or done a move like that we would at the least be able to have a very nice steak dinner with good wine together.


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## Skylar

Click, I've had Babykins do things like this too - especially with laying down. She went through a long phase of it and I think we're over it. It helps to go back to basis and treat heavily - as if you're teaching it for the first time to reinforce it. Also consider your hand signals and command - is it clear and consistent from Noelle's point of view?

It's frustrating to go through - you can question why too - did something happen like a loud noise or did you step on her paw when asking her to come front?

Eventually you'll get it back hopefully sooner rather than later.


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## Click-N-Treat

I don't have an answer why Noelle refuses to do Call Front ____ signs. She'll do all of these happily everywhere except in the ring. Hmm. I'll work on making this something we both look forward to. It could be that I am doing some unconscious uh-oh behavior on my end that is encouraging the balking. Or... no idea. 

My husband suggested changing the cue. So instead of saying call front, I say, _______. Any ideas on what to fill in the blank with? Something that I have to say in a happy tone of voice. Noelle really responds to happy talk. 

There was a conformation class in one ring and an open class in the other ring. Dumbbells flying, dogs running, dogs jumping. Major distractions on every side. Noelle was looking everywhere. I was bewildered. The trainer said, "You're gonna have to be more interesting than all that other stuff."

I started some happy chatter, and Noelle swung around, grinned at me, and we were off. All the other stuff went away. The trainer said the moment i got animated, that's when Noelle responded. It was a whole lot of fun, until the first Call Front.


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## lily cd re

You can say anything you want, so think about using something like your favorite fruit or happy color that will automatically make you cheerful and animated.


Think about all of the things people say to their dogs to get them to walk at heel: let's go, heel, strut and such. Also I've heard lots of different orders for utility jumps ranging from bar and high to bar and over (my orders) to bar and hup. There is a man in my neck of the woods that says "this one" and "the other one" for the utility jumps.


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## Click-N-Treat

We are back from our first Call Front _____ training adventure. Noelle was very happy to comply. However, there was one part where she got very distracted by an office door and refused. I backed off, and practiced one step, sit, two steps, sit, three steps sit. Then did call front and she did it, crooked, but still a sit. We had a blast, by the way. Tomorrow we will go to another pet store and practice again. I got loads of enthusiasm with heeling, too. 

I also made a huge discovery after we were done training and went shopping in a regular store. Service dog work and Rally go together much better than SD work and traditional obedience. In a public place you have to zigzag around people and obstacles, not sniff distracting food, take steps forward and sit, take steps backward and sit, turn left, turn right, about turn, moving side step right, down and stay while I go get milk, all of this different stuff is random and unpredictable... exactly like a rally course. And I can talk to Noelle as needed, mostly to avoid clobbering her with a shopping cart.

Another thing I noticed since training for rally is that her backward left turn is much better when we have to swing around to the left and go back the way we came. She pivots around better and seems to have more back end awareness. We will continue training in rally because it builds our working relationship and suits our teamwork. At least for now, anyway.


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## Click-N-Treat

So we are back from Rally run through. I decided, since the signs are the same, to try advanced instead of continuing on leash for intermediate. Most of this course was Excellent signs, so that made things interesting since I'd never seen about a third of the signs in my life. 

I took off Noelle's leash and asked for "get close" and "focus." Noelle got nice and close. I got just a flicker of focus. Focus is my term for staring lovingly at my armband. Since Noelle is so short, the only way we can maintain eye contact is for me to twist my shoulder back. That's causing Noelle to cue off my shoulder and get confused as to where to walk with me. Noelle lags terribly off leash because of my body language. 

I've been working on teaching her to watch my armband. I clip a squeaky toy to my upper arm and reward with tug for giving me attention. We've been practicing this in the house for about a week. I didn't have a toy with me tonight, though. I had meatballs. Mmm. Meatballs. I asked for focus and got it in brief flickers instead of her full attention. Focus is going to need a whole lot more work, but that's okay. We have time. 

Noelle did extremely well off leash, and stayed with me even when I got lost because so many signs were totally new. Moving down, moving stand, leave down call front finish sit. Okay, those signs were completely mystifying, but Noelle just kinda flowed with it. I was super pleased with her. We did a sit, pivot left, sit. Noelle has never done this before but managed to figure out what I wanted just by following me. She got to go over a jump and returned to heel. Such fun, just so much fun. Noelle was off leash and it worked! Yay! It worked.

So, forget intermediate. We're moving up to advanced. Bye bye leash, hello freedom! Let's go Noelle. Up and up and up!


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## lily cd re

Since intermediate has advanced signs without the jump I don't think I would do intermediate either. You will know the advanced signs (and do practice excellent signs too). There are any number of those signs that are actually much easier to do without trying to figure out what to do with your leash.


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## Skylar

Doing some of those signs on leash is tricky so doing them off leash with Noelle makes perfect sense. You are smart for knowing what works best for you and Noelle 

BTW I have Babykins focused on my hand at my waist, not the armband which would make her have to look higher. Millions of treats have been dispensed from that hand making it something important to watch. I could be wrong, but I don’t try to have eye to eye contact because it would mean Babykins is too far forward and her head too twisted up and I would have to be equally twisted down and back for us to see eye to eye. Instead I want her eye contact with my hand, leg, shoulder etc. and I see part of her head out of the corner of my eyes. I think it’s different with a spoo, but minipoo is just too far away from my face. Twisting that shoulder back, as you know, is a huge no no. I’m sure my trainers tell someone in the class at least every other week not to drop it back. Took me two years to finally stop doing it and just trust my dog or if she is lagging in a figure eight, I use the leash or a treat to keep her in position and not trying to use eye contact which drops the shoulder back. 

Did your trainer want you and Noelle to have eye to eye contact and we’re they the ones who suggested the armband focus?


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle has really good eye contact all the time since it was the first thing I taught her as a puppy, before even housebreaking. So, she stares at me all the time. However, when I made a video of us heeling, I realized Noelle is watching my left shoulder. This made me decide to get her to focus on my arm band. She's probably a few inches taller than Babykins, being an oversized Mini. She's 17.5 at the withers.

The arm band focus work has moved Noelle from serious lagging, to being slightly ahead of me. Her heel is also much more excited. When she steps too far forward, I stop forward movement and wait for Noelle to adjust herself. Targeting my armband, especially with toys, has gotten Noelle much more excited about heeling. I walk around with a squeaky toy clipped to my sweatshirt, and another squeaky toy crammed in my armpit. Do I feel stupid? Yes. Does it work? Yes!

Squeak the toy on my shoulder, focus. Squeak it again, focus, drop the toy from my armpit and play tug. Repeat taking two steps. Repeat taking four steps. Repeat without walking at all. We keep this up over and over, making heeling more fun and rewarding. With practice and time, Noelle will be watching my armband and I'll be able to just have my hands at my sides instead of having to hold my left hand across my belly. With just a week of practice, Noelle's ability to pay attention to me in the ring went up about 80%. 

I think there is nothing more annoying than a left about turn with a leash. That tangles me up every time. Passing the leash behind my back made me lose where my thumb was supposed to be. It is way easier to do the Schutzhund turn without a leash, that's for sure.


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## lily cd re

For a dog the height that I envision Noelle to be focus to the armband sounds like a good place for her to look. For my spoos, eye contact is the correct place for them to focus. Have you seen things like this really beautiful armband holder? https://www.etsy.com/listing/230723...yMVVUic6pqDW02U_h9PK6W6qPfjsxBqxoCm_UQAvD_BwE For those who want the dog to focus there perhaps a pretty one with a little sparkle would help them understand where to look.


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## lily cd re

Sorry duplicate post.


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## Click-N-Treat

I hadn't thought as far as an armband holder, but that would be a huge help to Noelle because I could really teach her exactly where to watch. I really hate rubber bands. Oh my goodness, those are a drag. If I had an armband holder with a clip, I could clip a toy behind the number and really surprise Noelle with it during training. Then the armband clip would get her happy and focused. Maybe there's a toy back there this time! Heel and find out!


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## lily cd re

I haven't indulged, but see people wearing those nice bits all the time. I am sort of thinking about trying to make one while I am on winter break.


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## Click-N-Treat

Well, today I decided to give Noelle a challenge. I clipped an old show number on my upper arm, put the squeaky toy in my pocket along with some treats. Okay, let's see if our training is working. Noelle, focus. I got her to look at my armband. Noelle, heel. We heeled and she never dropped her head. Treat!

A treat? What? Noelle's wheels in her head went spinning. She expected her toy and got a treat. Surprise! We did it again and she got another treat. Third time, heel. This time Noelle was extra super focused. Starting at that armband, making about turns and... toy! Noelle about exploded with joy.

The toy gets her a little too cranked up because she has added barking at me to our heeling game. I think, next time Noelle barks, I'll leave the room and close the door and come back when she's quiet. Because right now, we're in a routine of bark, bark, bark, tone it, sit, heel. I don't want to train Noelle it's barking that starts the fun. Barking makes me leave. 

Still, I am super proud of Noelle's progress with head's up focused heeling. We have a long way to go, but we have time. She'll get where she needs to go. Step by step by my side.


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## Click-N-Treat

We worked on tricks today because we have a Trick Dog Intermediate test in late December. I found Noelle's dumbbell while I was looking for her toy piano. Yes, my dog has a toy piano. Yes, I know that sounds completely ridiculous. Look, I'm not the one who came up with playing a toy piano as a dog trick and put it on the TKI list, am I? No. However, Noelle does have a toy piano that plays the most irritating version of "Old MacDonald" I have ever heard in my life when she paws at the keys. I am very glad this toy belongs to my dog and not a small child because I would lose my mind. It sounds like Barney the Dinosaur on an acid trip. Oops I took a ride on my horse Tangent, again. Sorry, let me stable that old boy up. Where was I? Ah yes, dumbbell.

So, I got the dumbbell out and threw it across the living room. Noelle raced after it, brought it to me and dropped it at my feet. Well, that's not what I had in mind. I told her to get it and give it to me, and she did. I traded that for a chunk of turkey. Throw, chase, retrieve, drop at my feet, get again, hand it to me, turkey. We did that a few times. Then I refused to give her turkey unless she brought it directly to my hand and gave it to me the first time. Noelle caught on really fast that chasing the dumbbell and bringing it to my hand is fun. Next time we play, I will only reward for picking the dumbbell up by the stick and not the bell. Adding a sit at the end is going to be, um, interesting. 

Noelle is 100% certain there is no way to sit while holding something in her mouth. How do I convince Noelle that it's possible to both sit and hang on to something at the same time? It's a lot harder than teaching her how to bonk a toy piano with her paws. Ideas?


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## lily cd re

I would sit on a chair and throw the dumbbell. This way you can reach her easily when she brings the dumbbell back to you. Put one hand under her chin so she can't drop the dumbbell and tell her to sit. If she doesn't put your other hand on her but and put a little pressure while again saying sit.


Another way to do this would be to do a very short throw with Noelle on a leash and use the leash under her chin to keep her from dropping the dumbbell while you tell her to sit.


If neither of those works then break the exercise down to smaller parts and have her sit and give her the dumbbell while remaining sitting to show her she can do that part, then go back to short throws and telling her to sit with your hand or the leash under her chin while you tell her to sit.


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## Click-N-Treat

I got a wooden dowel and taught Noelle to hold it. She did not like this game initially, but learned to accept the dowel and hold. I got out her dumbbell and repeated the dreaded hold game. She was half hearted, but did it. I threw the dumbbell. She charged after it. Grabbed it, came to me. I called, "Front!" and she... sat in front with the dumbbell. 

Party time!


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## mvhplank

Party indeed!


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## Skylar

Huge Party Time! 

That's what my instructor suggested when Babykins came back with her dumbbell and didn't understand that she could indeed sit it in her mouth.. It's amazing isn't it when it clicks inside their head and they learn they can do it.


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## lily cd re

Awesome, now repeat repeat repeat until you can drop saying front!


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## Click-N-Treat

My size small dumbbell is too big for Noelle. The bit slides around latterly and is just a little too thick. The wooden dowel fits her mouth much better. I just got an extra small sized dumbbell on Amazon. Hopefully she'll like that one a little better. 

Still, I am very happy to see my dog loves running to her dumbbell, grabbing it, bringing it to me and sitting. I will work on only picking it up by the stick next week. For now, bringing it and sitting is huge! What a breakthrough!


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## Click-N-Treat

Got the size extra small dumbbell. Noelle can hold it much easier now. Tonight she was sitting in heel. I told her to wait. I tossed the dumbbell, paused, and then sent her to get it. She got it, brought it to me and sat in front without being asked. Breakthrough part II!


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## Asta's Mom

Breakthrough indeed - Noelle seems to learn easily, no doubt due to your training methods - Click. I love hearing about your "parties" as Noelle and you proceed in your quest... that means she is learning and progressing. You have an awesome pup.


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## Click-N-Treat

Thanks! That means a lot. Noelle is coming along nicely, but still picks up the dumbbell by the bell end too often. The most rewarding thing for her is the chase and get part of the retrieve. I have no idea how to help her understand the stick, and only the stick, is what she is to grab. Chances are, I'm going too quickly and need to slow the heck down. Bad habits are easier to fix at the beginning. 

Anyone know how to fix this?

Noelle loves getting the dumbbell. She'll get it if I toss it. Or get it if I tell her to stay and send her to a dumbbell that is just sitting there on the floor. She also is quick at bringing it back and has figured out sitting in front is part of the game. What do I do if she grabs it by the bell instead of the stick?


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## lily cd re

You may be going too fast on the dumbbell since Noelle doesn't understand that picking it up by the bell is a no no. I would do take and hold and give a treat for a while mixed into other work with it. Have her take the dumbbell by the bit and have her hold it while you tell her "good hold." Take it from her and pop her a treat right away so she associates the treat with that proper hold.


You might consider getting a custom fit dumbbell down the road to help with the pick up and hold as well. A very well fit dumbbell will tend to guide the dog to the right pick up and hold. You can get nice dumbbells from Max200 and from Training Treasures. Lily has a Max200 plastic dumbbell and a wood one that was custom made by someone who has retired. Javelin's dumbbell is from Training Treasures.


https://www.max200.com/dumbbells-accessories-key-chains


https://www.dogtrainingtreasures.com/dumbbells


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## snow0160

I hold out the dumbbell in front of Lucky and I don’t let go of both ends. He takes the middle and I tell him to stay holding. I practice this a few times and he no longer brings it back to me by the ends. It was important to teach him how to hold it before throwing it for retrieval. I think he thought it was a toy in the beginning until I taught him which part to grab on to. Hope this helps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Click-N-Treat

I am definitely going too fast. There's no maybe about it! I'll make picking it up by the stick the only game we play with it, and play fetch with other toys for now. Still, I'm really happy with her drive. No slow wandering toward the dumbbell. Sit at heel, wait for the dumbbell to finish bouncing, wait for release, boom! Fired out of a cannon after it, grabs it, whirls around, returns to me and sits. 

Maybe we'll goof around with jumping through a hula hoop with the dumbbell to help her learn to hold on tight. This little one fits her mouth pretty well, but a custom dumbbell might not be a bad idea later. Dumbbell fetch is for our TKI test on December 28. We've got 10 tricks worked out, and fetch is one of them. If we can teach her to grab the dumbbell by the stick by then that'd be awesome.


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## Click-N-Treat

If I hold the bell ends, Noelle won't bite the center. She just looks puzzled. I'll have to think about this.


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## Click-N-Treat

I took Noelle to my club for early training. Due to snow, this was our first time back at early training since our trial November 3. Since then, I've been working really hard at teaching Noelle to watch my armband. She does it in the living room. Will she do it in the ring?

I put my armband on, and got razzed by my friends for having an armband during training. But, when I explained why, they totally got excited by the concept. Ok, let's see if it's going to work. I took Noelle in the ring and asked for a get close. She got close and sat. Noelle, heel. AND SHE HEELED! WOW! Heads up, focused great energy and drive. We did speed changes. We did one step sit, two steps sit, three steps sit. BAM! YAY!

I took the leash off and did the same thing off leash, and she did about turns, and left turns, right turns, all of it while looking up at my armband. I was so happy I about did a backflip. All of the people who were razzing me were saying Noelle had come a really long way and they were super excited right along with me.

The only thing I can bring with me into every trial is an armband, so why not make that a cue for work? I was jazzed and I'm getting excited about obedience now. Noelle ran all the way around the entire ring in heel without losing her place. I couldn't believe it. Who is this dog, and what have you done with Noelle? She actually looked... like an obedience dog. Instead of looking like we have no idea what we are trying to do, I had an off leash dog heeling with energy and drive. Wow! 

I'm going back to class tonight for rally run-throughs. Hopefully, Noelle is just as connected as she was this afternoon. We're getting it, friends. We're getting it for sure!


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## zooeysmom

Yay, that is amazing! All that hard work is paying off. When do you plan on trialing next?


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## Click-N-Treat

We are trialing in Rally in late March because the weather in our area isn't reliable for travel December-March. One of my big fears is getting snowed in on the tollway. No thank you.


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## zooeysmom

Click-N-Treat said:


> We are trialing in Rally in late March because the weather in our area isn't reliable for travel December-March. One of my big fears is getting snowed in on the tollway. No thank you.


The weather affects us in the opposite way--too hot in summer, so everything has to be fall through early spring.


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## lily cd re

Great update, and BTW I know people who wear armbands all the time during training. A number of people at the rally match Lily and I went to yesterday wore armbands.


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## Click-N-Treat

Rally run-throughs are always fun because I never know what signs will be there. Today's stumper was the Masters sign "Dog Circles Right Handler Circles Left." Confused everyone, until I realized we're making this way harder than it is. 

Do a left about turn, only keep going all the way around. That's all there is to it, folks! No need to panic here. It also looks really cool when you do it. Set that sucker to Shake Your Groove Thing and you could dance it. Actually, several Rally signs combined would make a simple musical freestyle routine. Double about turns, heeling forward and backward, 360 turns... Hmm, I might give this a whirl. 

ANYHOO...

The course had Side by Side 360° Right Circle. Well, that made me feel like a complete klutz, but Noelle spun. I was kinda dizzy after that. We had the Master's sign HALT - Recall over Jump - Finish - About Turn - Forward. I discovered something important on that sign. Always do a flip finish, so when you do your about turn, your don't trip over your dog. The dog doesn't sit at the end of the finish, and you both flow into an about turn together. Swing finish, about turn, move on to the next sign.

Noelle loves jumps. She just seems so happy to go, boing! 

On our first run through, we did really well. She got some crooked Stands and crooked Sits, but those wouldn't be bad enough to IP. We'll work on sitting straight. I've been so focused on attention that I just haven't been working on precision lately. Sometimes dog training feels like knitting, You're so busy knitting one row, you don't notice the bottom is unraveling. Focused heeling, yes. Sitting straight and square, no. We'll get it together. 

We finished our first run-through and Noelle was hanging out in her crate. They called our name again later on, and just as I was getting Noelle out of her crate, disaster struck. Our rally sign up is on a dry erase board on a large easel. Someone bonked the easel and it went down, BOOM! Really loud, just as Noelle was exiting her crate. It was right in front of where we were. Poor Noelle got so scared she didn't want to come out of her crate at all. 

I got her out. We played look at that, but Noelle's tail was tucked and she was really afraid. She was shaking. She had to walk past the poodle eating easel to get in the ring. How was she supposed to do something so terrifying? What if it fell on her? Oh no! Noelle took a deep breath and whooshed into the ring. Then she looked at me, like, whew, we're in a safe place now. 

As you can imagine, our second run through was way less focused, but that was fine with me. We completed it, and did a nice pivot together and her recall over the jump was silky smooth. I'm glad Noelle thinks the ring is a safe place to be when crazy happens. That warmed my heart. The ring is good, and safe, and wonderful. Even if there is a poodle eating easel that goes Bang! I wonder if she'll be afraid of it next week? We'll find out.


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## lily cd re

That circle around each other sign is much easier than it seems on paper isn't it. Also for the recall over jump, sit front, finish, it can be an about left or right turn or forward. I tailor which finish I use to the direction of travel after it, and yes precisely for the reason of not being crashed into by the dog. The 360* right side by side was a vexxing one until I got Lily to be willing to spin on orders and not just because she felt like it. I have that sign on the course I plan to use for the match at my club tomorrow, along with the dog circles right, handler circles left sign. I chose a set of courses that had signs I knew I needed to work on and that will challenge the other level teams in a way that hopefully will make the trials on Saturday no big deal.


Lily and I have had two times when loud noises happened during group stays. The first time a stewards table at the ring next to ours collapsed during the sit in novice. Lily (who doesn't love loud noises) broke her sit and the judge excused us. Unfortunately I wasn't bold enough to ask to be allowed to redo the sit stay at the end. The judge didn't offer the opportunity to do so either. The second time we were in open B for stays and an open A handler in the ring next to us hit the wooden boards of the high jump with her GSDs large wooden dumbbell, not once, not twice but three times. The first time she did it we were just walking out of the ring for the long sit. As I passed the gate I was passed by a black streak, aka Lily who ran straight into her crate. The second time another dog stood up and took a few steps. That judge allowed us to redo the stays by ourselves after the class was over to reinforce that the stay was okay to do even though we didn't Q.


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## Click-N-Treat

I went to early training today. We did whatever random Rally course was laid out. Excellent, I think. Noelle did very well with that for the most part. I got lost a few times, but we hung together and had fun.

After that, I asked Sheila to do a Novice run through. We haven't done anything like this since October. Well, Noelle did extremely well with that. Her heel was really nice, same with figure eight. I felt no pull on the leash durning figure eight, which was such a treat. We did our off leash heel. I lost Noelle on the about turns briefly, but she came back to me.

Recall, she of course bounded to me and landed on my knee. So, we repeated it and she got it right the second time. Over all, it was a good run. Sheila said if she was the judge that would have been a Q. A few points off here and there, but other than that a really good job. Sheila also told me to not go anywhere near obedience until we're done with RA and RE, though. Might as well show in A class if you can. Sheila gets it!

We're going back for Rally run-throughs this evening. I'll bring some dog toys to put in the ring at random just to make things more difficult. Onward!


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## Mfmst

Yay, Team Noelle! You guys are doing so great!


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## lily cd re

I am happy to hear all that. You should stay in rally through excellent and then do novice in the A class. After that while you are firming up open and utility exercises do Rally Master for ten Qs. After doing Master if you want to pursue the RACh (much more realistic in the new rules) you will get RAE and RAE2 just in the process of getting the 20 triple Qs (at this point if I go for RACh with Lily we will end up at RAE11). 

There are some excellent and master signs that are derived from utility exercises like the send to cone (signs 307 and 308) related to utility go out and stand the dog/leave and give a position change command then front and finish (signs 208 and 209) related to utility signals. Also sign 207 which is a moving stand call to heel is related to the utility moving stand and examination without the judge doing the exam.


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## Click-N-Treat

We did a mixed Advanced and Excellent level run today. I got told by one of the trainers that Noelle has the potential to be an amazing competitor. That made my day. She also mentioned RACh and that we can and should go for it. She said she liked Noelle's fluid movement. My favorite, and Noelle's, is any kind of Left Pivot. She doesn't just pivot, but bounces backward in the air and sits in heel. Her body movement says, "OMG, mom, mom, mom, that was way fun!"

It's cute when a dog chooses a sign that's their favorite thing to do. Swinging left is Noelle's favorite and going around me in a circle right. Double About Left Turn makes Noelle give me a cheeky grin. We did Moving Stand Walk Around, and Moving Down Walk Around. Noelle did these perfectly. I forgot to pause. DOH! I think I'll add the words AND PAUSE in my head to those signs. Moving Stand Walk Around And Pause. 

Some Excellent signs have a lot of words on them and I find the directions a little confusing. Stand While Heeling Call To Finish Sit, is not the same as Stand Leave Sit Call Front Finish Sit. But... when I walk to the Call Sign and turn around, the second half of the sign evaporates from my head. There I am looking at my dog and thinking, and I do what to the who now? Those signs are a noggin scratcher. It might as well say, Stand Leave C8H10N4O2 is the molecular formula for which chemical, Sit. Maybe I need to drink some coffee before class so I can keep this stuff straight.

Noelle has never been called directly to finish before. So, I called her and she came straight in front and then kinda did a rightward hop, finished right, and sat, which was correct. Not bad for having never done that before. Noelle ALWAYS does a finish left from a formal recall. So, I will not poison my recall by having her finish left without a sit in front. That would just confuse my dog. So, if it's a call directly to finish, she can go to the right. And she loves going to the right in circles anyway.

Tonight I discovered every single one of our problems in the ring have nothing to do with signs. It's distraction. Noelle wants to check out what interesting things are happening in the ring next to us. Oooh, a flying dumbbell. That's neat. Oh, those dogs are jumping. I like jumping. Distraction is an issue, and I'll focus on that when we go to our club for training. Apart from some hiccups, we sailed right through the excellent course both times.

Next week is our Christmas Party and minimal training is going to go on. Ugly Christmas Sweater contest, snacks for humans, games, trading ornaments. It's just going to be fun. Then no training Christmas Eve or New Year's Eve. We'll be back in January. 

Catherine, I totally agree. We will trial in Rally A class through RE, get our CD while doing Master runs next year. Train for CDX and UD while doing triple q runs, then show in CDX and hopefully UD. Joan really stressed that tonight, too. She says we have what it takes to be serious competitors, so team Click and Noelle are going for it. I'm so glad there are other competitors to cheer for and cheer with me. Let's all train super hard and trial together next year. 2019 is gonna be a rocket ride! Whoo hoo!


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## lily cd re

Nice job!


I agree that for your finishes you may well want to use left vs. right for different purposes as you described. Making the criteria as clear as possible for the dog is going to enhance their work and help you too. 



Power onward. Noelle is going to catch up with Lily before too long.


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## Click-N-Treat

Today I went back to my old obedience class. A Christmas party was going on, and Noelle was overstimulated by a long mile. I had a bouncing dog on my leash. She did do a very, very nice long sit stay/get your leash, though. We did some, "find heel" games, which are also Rally signs. Sit/stay, take a step forward, call to heel, forward. Go to the side, call to heel, stuff like that. Noelle was fantastic at it, and so was her Great Dane Rally pal. The other dogs were horrible at it. My Rally buddy looked at me, I looked at her and we just grinned. Rally rocks!

Rally is a bridge for Noelle, no doubt about it. I can cheer her through different exercises, and she learns them in a fun goofy environment. Because she's learning while happy, she learns better. Then when the trainer says, step in front of your dog and call them to heel, Noelle can do that easily. The other rally dog reacted the same way. You wanna do what now? Oh, let's go!

Still, it wasn't all Noelle's fault for being distracted. One woman in my class brought an aggressive dog to class, specifically to try to get him used to being around dogs. Fortunately, Growly McSnarling face was smaller than Noelle. But the growling, snarling fur ball scared my dog. Every time it snarled, Noelle jumped and got nervous. So, we're not going back to that class. There's no reason for Noelle to be around that.

During class, I was reminded why I stopped going in October. There's too much stimulation in class for Noelle to focus well. She gets overstimulated, so I correct her for acting up, which overstimulates her, so I correct her for acting up... Neither of us do well in this class. The class is a death spiral for Noelle. 

Weirdly enough, early training is much more like a trial than class is. In early training, it's just us in a ring with a friend acting as judge. We run through all of the Novice exercises just like a trial would be. Yes, there is other training going on in other rings, but no snarling little dogs are in the ring with Noelle. No GSD bolting toward the ring gate during recall practice, either. I get more out of 15 minutes of early training than 45 minutes of group class. I think we're done with group class.

We had to skip Rally run through tonight because my daughter finished work just as Rally started. That's OK. I'm going to buy some cones and practice at home between now and when class starts again in January. And we'll continue working in obedience, too. I think Noelle will get her CD in 2019 if I keep working with her. And Rally titles, too. Onward!


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## Mufar42

Sounds like you have a good plan. Moving forward with what whats for both you and your dog I think is key. I am sure Noelle will grab those titles.


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## lily cd re

You are learning lots about how to handle Noelle and all sorts of situations you will potentially find yourselves in and that is awesome. 

Well now though a sentence like that is always followed by a but...right? Yuppers.

While most of a novice routine is done alone in the ring with the judge you have to get to and from the ring sometimes in a crowded place with a moron and their dog reactive snarling dog. You might also end up next to them for sits and downs. Lily once had to do novice sits and downs to a very twitchy rottie. All through the sit he was making odd snuffling noises and shifting his weight on his front feet. Lily was clearly unhappy and kept her head turned away from him. When I told her to down for the long down she put herself diagonally in front of me so far that I had to step to the right to avoid stepping on or over her. She actually did a great job showing him calming signals. These situations have to be prepared for and the only way to prepare for them is to push the envelope. This event was one of the things that made Lily not like rotties. I don't care about that, but I do care that she understands she can trust me to keep her safe around them, so every time we meet a great handler with a well trained rottie in the upper levels of obedience and/or rally I ask the handler if they have some time to do some counter conditioning with their dog and Lily. They have always understood and Lily has done many sits and downs near rotties in the years since then. She doesn't love them, but she understands that when I ask her to be near one I have her back.

Dogs learn to love things that make them happy, but they (and we) also can learn a lot when we are stressed to just below our lose the brain state. If possible I would suggest hanging around outside the ring for the time of that class. Keep working on your attention and focus. While Noelle is concerned about the snarler do LAT to show her that he is unimportant and that she can acknowledge but not lose her head over him. I have a friend with a UDX Irish Setter who is an intact male. He has always taken exception to other males. Last week he was in a crate at my private trainer's facility and he was growling and snarling at Javelin who might have been thinking about snarling back but instead I did some attention at heel and call fronts to keep him busy with me rather than obsessing over the IS.


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## Skylar

Click, I agree with Catherine about getting Noelle used to different kinds of dogs including Growly McSnarling face. By different kinds of dogs - I mean any dog that isn't behaving perfectly in class focused on their handler. Highly excitable, playful dogs, whining dogs, dogs who don't follow their owner's commands etc. It's all part of proofing your dog. As long as the dogs are safe - I never want my dog or anyone else's dog exposed to a vicious dog - barking, snarling, whining etc. are fine - but never one who will attack or bite.

Babykins used to get very excited herself when a highly excitable playful dog was in class - over time she has learned to ignore these dogs. She's learned not to be upset with barking and whining dogs etc. In the old days - last year before the rule changes - the long sits and downs in novice were the dogs in position and unleashed while we walked 15' or so away from them. Babykins had one lab jump over her and a very friendly excitable black minipoo come over and entice her to play. Thankfully she just stayed in position. She's sat and laid down with so many different dogs over the last two years that has helped make her more resilient. As for heeling which in our case is a work in progress, sometimes it takes awhile before i have her full focus on me when there is a "wild" dog in class - but she has improved in this significantly. It's less of a problem in competition when we're the only heeling team in the ring - but in a class with everyone heeling next to each other she is learning to just focus on me irregardless of who is nearby. These people will be at our trials sitting in the waiting area just beyond the gates with their dogs. And dogs will do what dogs will do in a stressful situation such as a trial - they may bark or snarl etc.

I also think all this exposure is good in other situations. In agility where we sometimes work with multiple dogs in a ring off leash - Babykins is the one dog in the class who can work off leash with any of the other dogs. Some of the other dogs, if they see another dog running - want to run and chase instead of working. I think her exposure in obedience to so many different dogs is playing a role here in how well behaved she is in agility.

In obedience class there's a dog who hates black dogs and another who gets set off from another dog - so we are often asked to move next to these dogs because Babykins is neutral in her behavior to them.

I expect you will meet up with Growly McSnarling face or his ilk in rally class too.


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## Click-N-Treat

My main concern was when the aggressive dog was off leash in the same ring with Noelle during recalls. He doesn't have a reliable recall. That didn't make me feel comfortable. For the most part, Noelle isn't too disturbed by other dogs. On our way into the rally ring during our last show, two GSD's got into a loud argument a few feet from Noelle. It didn't upset her much, but then again, the snarling wasn't aimed at her. 

It's funny you mentioned playing LAT. Noelle's default response to lunging growling dog is... to look at the dog, and then look at me. She played LAT by default and I didn't even realize it. Noelle did act as a calm, neutral dog for Growly McGrowl Face to walk past later on in class. And Growly got a little calmer after a few passes.

Don't worry, I'm not planning on wrapping Noelle in cotton and protecting her from the world. There will be plenty of dogs in my rally class with all different temperaments. What matters is that Noelle is able to look to me for reassurance and protection. There's a level of stress that my dog needs to adapt to, and a level that I have to step in and protect her from. Finding that balance can be difficult. I draw the line with dog aggressive off leash dogs.


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## lily cd re

Oh I know you understand the need for really thorough proofing (which is what that was). I also think that it is important to teach new exercises with low distractions and clear information. These things compliment and accentuate each other.


Separately if that were my class and I had a dog with unreliable temperament and poor recall it would never be allowed off the leash. If I did allow something like that somehow and a student said something to me about it I would not mind at all.


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## Skylar

Click-N-Treat said:


> My main concern was when the aggressive dog was off leash in the same ring with Noelle during recalls. He doesn't have a reliable recall. That didn't make me feel comfortable.


 Oh dear - sounds like this dog should be on a long line during the recall practice so the owner has control. I don't blame you for being concerned, I would be uncomfortable too.


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## lily cd re

I don't even think I would allow the dog to be on a long line for the time being. It has to be taught that recalls are never optional and you don't need to go further than 6 feet from the dog to work on that.


There is someone who comes irregularly to my novice class. The dog is not very reliable with other dogs or on recall. He has to keep the dog on a leash no longer than 10' in my class. They were entered for rally advanced at our last trial and both times the dog ran out of the ring as soon as the leash came off. There is a real lack of connectedness with this dog. I don't know who told the owner it was sensible to enter an off leash class, but it certainly wasn't me.


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## Click-N-Treat

The GSD bolts during long stays and is so strong his elderly handler loses the leash, just whoop, right out of his hand. Then I have a semi-dog aggressive GSD racing around the ring. Meanwhile, I'm the long side of the ring away from Noelle and too far away to protect her. She maintains her sit/stay none-the-less, though. I just don't feel good about it. At least in Novice, the group exercises are all on leash. 

Dog bolting out of the ring during advanced rally... Oh my. You really do need a close working relationship before you ever take the leash off. I wonder if he ever practiced rally off leash before entering a trial?


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## lily cd re

Click-N-Treat said:


> *The GSD bolts during long stays and is so strong his elderly handler loses the leash, just whoop, right out of his hand. Then I have a semi-dog aggressive GSD racing around the ring*. Meanwhile, I'm the long side of the ring away from Noelle and too far away to protect her. She maintains her sit/stay none-the-less, though. I just don't feel good about it. At least in Novice, the group exercises are all on leash.
> 
> Dog bolting out of the ring during advanced rally... Oh my. You really do need a close working relationship before you ever take the leash off. I wonder if he ever practiced rally off leash before entering a trial?



Yikes on that situation. I understand why it doesn't feel good to leave Noelle being her good poodle self in a vulnerable position, but seriously the instructor for this class needs to take charge of that situation. Either someone else should handle the dog or they should be in a separate space or they shouldn't be there. Wy do people get dogs they don't have the where-with-all to handle properly? GSD need a person with firm mannerisms and decent physical strength.


The person with the dog who ran out of the ring has a full time job so I think he just doesn't do enough training. He only comes to my class when he is on vacation. He also doesn't like that I don't let him work the dog off leash, but he doesn't do enough daily work with the dog (a rescue golden from hunting lines) to make real progress on their connection.


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## Click-N-Treat

Rally practice has been fun at home. I went to ****'s Sporting Goods and got four little plastic cones. Since I know Noelle is one of the most distractible dogs to ever enter a rally ring off leash, we are practicing the offset figure 8. Christmas decorations make good distractions, it turns out. With a tree topper angel on one side and a stuffed Santa on the other side, we're doing the offset figure eight fairly well. I'm at the point where I just have to say leave it and start walking. Hopefully this will cross over at our trial in January. I'll make this exercise harder and harder. Tennis balls on a paper plate surrounded by cheese is my goal. If she can ignore that, and do the figure 8 around the cones, we'll be ready for anything the judge puts in the ring. I, um, hope.

Noelle will now heel in reverse. I discovered if I put a treat kinda behind her head she will walk backwards. So, we are having fun heeling forward and suddenly walking backward. Noelle is agile and has fluid body movement, something the Rally trainer at my club pointed out to me. We've done a whole lot of work on the Elephant Trick, where you have your dog put front feet on a book and rotate into heel, or rotate the opposite direction. This helps Noelle gain rear-end awareness. Also, being a poodle helps a ton, of course.

As far as Advanced and Excellent signs, we are solid on everything except the offset figure eight and anything involving a moving down. I've decided to work on a rapid down while I stand still. Then a rapid down while I move one step. I've been going too fast, and need to help Noelle understand what I want. Her stand/stay is instant. I think it's because when we work in public she stand/stays a gazillion times in a crowded place, and has to halt on a dime.

Looking ahead to Master, we've started the go to the cone and sit signs. I put a piece of turkey on top of the cone and sent Noelle to eat it. She liked that a whole lot. We repeated that a few times. Then I sent her to the cone, but there wasn't turkey on top. Just as she arrived, before she touched the cone, I said sit and she sat. Then I gave her a jackpot. This is a work in progress, but it is coming along. I think sometimes there will be turkey on the cone, and sometimes there will not be turkey on the cone. That way she will always haul over to the cone with excitement. 

We went through all of our tricks for next week's trick dog title.

Noelle's 10 tricks are:
Balance treat on nose
Carry a basket
Fetch a dumbbell
Play a game (she has one with sliders where she gets a treat)
Go to your mat from 10 feet
Paws up on my arm
Play a toy piano 
Sit Pretty
Jump through a hula hoop
Heel with automatic sit

I discovered Noelle will carry the basket better if I walk away from her and she has to trot after me. We didn't practice the toy piano today because I couldn't deal with the noise that thing makes. When we're done, I'll take the batteries out of it and put it away for the next dog. These were fun to train. We'll get Advanced next time the test is offered, because she already has 10 more tricks learned. Then we'll get Performer after that. We'll make a movie for Trick Dog Elite Performer and put it on YouTube. Her Elite Performer will be "A Day In The Life of a Diabetes Alert Dog." 10 tricks, five with props, and a ton of fun to do. Noelle loves learning tricks, that's for sure.

Between Rally titles and Trick Dog titles and trying to get a CD, 2019 is going to be awesome! Go Noelle! Go!


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## AgilityPoodles

Click,

It sounds like you're on the right track by breaking things down into smaller sections. Creating clarity for our dogs on what behavior we want is key to our success. Keep up the great work!

I had the worst time coming up with intermediate level tricks for Riley as there are some on the list I just don't teach. We made it through, though, and trick training is a lot of fun. The dogs do love it.

I look forward to reading more of your adventures!


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## lily cd re

Click it is good that you faded the food on the cone really quickly. I have seen more problems with go outs (essentially an extended version of the rally master send to cone) because people got stuck with food lures at the go out. I had my own problems with this with Lily. Javelin's go out, which is kick ass, was taught with never any food sitting out there. We started very close and I gave him food for taking just a few steps up to the gate, then as we started further away someone else would be near the go out with cookies. Now I go to the go out and give him a cookie if he has done a beautiful straight go out with a pretty turn and sit. I also sometimes tell him just to wait at the go out so he doesn't autosit when he gets there.


Have fun with your tricks testing. I will be spending some time teaching tricks so I can have a friend of mine evaluate Lily and Javelin for intermediate in the next month or so.


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## Click-N-Treat

Yes, I faded that treat out after about four tries. I don't want Noelle to think the goal is go to the cone and knock it over looking for a treat. I think my ratio of treat on cone is going to start out as 1:3 and move to 1:5. I need to remember that random reinforcement is more powerful than always getting a treat. It builds intensity and excitement when maybe is involved. Plus, we can't use treats during trials anyway.

I've transitioned Noelle during Rally practice to having treats in a bowl, but not in my hands. So, we do a trick or two, and then get a treat from the bowl. This way Noelle isn't only working because I am holding a treat.


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## Click-N-Treat

So, we went to rally run through tonight. Almost every sign was Master level and we definitely got confused a few times. The first sign had both of us spin right. Well, I messed that up and Noelle lost her focus. Sorry buddy. 

We encountered our first cloverleaf. Noelle has been working with cones so much with me that she flowed through the cones cheerfully with eye contact and joy. The high jump, which Noelle has been struggling with, she recalled over, then sat, finished, and did an about turn, perfectly. That was great and I was really happy. Double left about turns, no problem. Stand, left turn, easy. We do need to practice back up three steps a lot. I mean, a lot, a lot. We had three varieties of back up and Noelle struggled with all of those. 

That was our first run through. Rough, but not horrible. Then we had our second run through. Conformation class was going on in the ring next to us. One of the dogs was flirting with Noelle over the ring gate. Noelle lost her head and bolted from the clover leaf all the way across the ring to say hi to her new friend. Whoa! 

I tried to call Noelle, not coming. I didn't call her a second time. Instead I went over to Noelle, put my fingers in her collar and dragged her back to the other side of the ring and ordered a sit in my best, she who must be obeyed, voice. Noelle… sat. And her eyes were saucers! Good! Noelle's temperament is softer than a microwaved marshmallow, so my fingers in her collar hauling her across the ring was an epic level correction. Her expression was, "Goalie mitt, mom's mad!"

What did we learn, Miss Noelle? 
Don’t ever, ever, ever runs away in the ring.
Exactly. 
Sorry.
I forgive you. No worries. Let's go back to work. Sit. Wait. Come front over this jump.
Yes, ma'am. Boing! You said Front. Front means I sits like this, finish left likes that. I about turn likes this, and we're back working together, right Mom?
Yes, Noelle, good girl.

Tonight’s run through was ugly with moments of delight mixed in. It’s great to work on signs way ahead of where we are as a challenge, but at the same time, Noelle checks out when she doesn’t understand what I expect from her. So, we’re going to be up and down in class until Noelle learns more Master signs. Some of them she understand easily. Some are her favorites, like double left about turn left turn. Others are beyond her level. 

Still, six months ago we saw our first rally course. Now we've got RN and are trialing in RA at the end of January. I'm proud of her progress. We can do this. Rally on my wayward dog.


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## Mufar42

I am very impressed with both you and Noelle..!


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## lily cd re

Both Lily and Javelin have felt those serious fingers through their collars! Sometimes we have to use a negative to make it clear about what is good and correct. They get over it. Again, I think of those disconnect fails as being analogous to a child who is about to run into the street after a ball you run up and grab them by the arm and pull them to safety. It makes quite an impression, much more than standing thirty feet away pleading Noelle (Lily, Javvy) blah blah blah, Please Javvy yadda yadda, PLEASE LILY meaningless begging.......


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## mvhplank

lily cd re said:


> Both Lily and Javelin have felt those serious fingers through their collars! Sometimes we have to use a negative to make it clear about what is good and correct. They get over it. Again, I think of those disconnect fails as being analogous to a child who is about to run into the street after a ball you run up and grab them by the arm and pull them to safety. It makes quite an impression, much more than standing thirty feet away pleading Noelle (Lily, Javvy) blah blah blah, Please Javvy yadda yadda, PLEASE LILY meaningless begging.......


I like that analogy. Neely's "pay attention, I mean it!" corrections happen as he's about to pull me off my feet.


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## Click-N-Treat

That's exactly what I was thinking when I went and got Noelle. Pleading teaches Noelle she can check out and ignore me. Getting her, fingers in collar and physically taking her where I wanted her to be, that's impossible to ignore. 

Master signs are far higher than Noelle is ready for. She can do 90% of them on the first try, but with 25% real understanding of what I want. She's guessing and following along. When Noelle really understands what I want, it's fluid and wonderful. Advanced signs are all fluid and wonderful. Pivots are probably her favorite things. 

Yesterday, got a rapid moving down and nearly melted from joy because we've been practicing that. I talked to my husband about what happened last night and he said, "Noelle just needs more practice." He's right. When Noelle knows what to do, she doesn't blow me off. 

I'll keep practicing. Next week, I'll ask for an Advanced course to be laid out with the Master course because Noelle is trialing in Advanced very soon.


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## Click-N-Treat

We're home after our first back to back trial today. It was an adventure. We drove up to Rockford on Saturday and the weather went berserk. Without warning it was 6 (-14c) degrees and snowing like crazy. The weather never mentioned snow, but wham, suddenly there's all this blinding snow. Plows weren't ready so it piled up on the streets. I didn't like driving in that at all. I got safely to our hotel, but wow that was scary. 

This morning at the hotel it was -9 degrees (-23c). Poor Noelle didn't know how to potty in that weather. I felt really bad as she danced from foot to foot. I dug out my car, warmed it up, and headed for the trial site. Driving 55 miles an hour on unfamiliar twisty roads with a jacka$$ in an SUV on my bumper isn't fun. Add ice and snow, and my nerves were pretty much shot by the time I got to the trial. Not the best way to start. 

Once we were at the trial site it was plowed enough for Noelle to find a spot to potty. Never been so happy to pick up a poop before. Rally Master was doing their walkthrough by the time I got my crate set up and Noelle settled in. We were the only Advanced A team. We got a 76 on our first run, and a first place. The first place felt like a joke for such a low score. Still, that was Noelle's third trial weekend, so I was really happy to see she was able to get it together enough to qualify. That was Q #1 toward Advanced.

When the afternoon trial started, I'd settled in and wasn't as stressed out from all the driving. Also it was so much warmer outside when I took Noelle out to potty. It was 3 degrees (-16c) and sunny. Amazing how toasty 3 degrees can feel when you compare it to -9. Noelle and I went for a short walk and then went back in for trial #2 in the afternoon.

Trial #2 we were the only Advanced A team once again. This time we got a score of 93 and a huge round of applause for Q #2 in Advanced. That blue ribbon didn't feel like as much of a joke as the first one. I was really proud of Noelle. We've only gone to five trials, at three locations, and qualified all five times. What that tells me is Noelle needs more ring experience at more places. Once she gets more experience things will get better and better. 

My friend Carol and her Rottie Gabby are about to get RaCh. They are two more triple qualifying scores alway. We're both trialing next weekend, thankfully much closer to home. The weather in Northern Illinois is supposed to go utterly bonkers this week. Hopefully, it clears up by Saturday and Sunday. Next weekend, Noelle has two chances to get one more Q for her RA title. And Carol and Gabby will hopefully get RaCh. I don't know which one is more exciting.


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## zooeysmom

Woo hoo, Click and Noelle!! Big congrats to you both! You must be thrilled. And look at that, a Nationals qualifying score in Trial #2  Maybe you will get two more at your next trials! I would not be surprised.


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## Skylar

I’m so proud of you and Noelle. To perform and perform well under those circumstances is very impressive. All that stress of getting there and the bitter cold affecting Noelle’s potty habits was quite tricky. 

I hear you might be getting record cold weather, well into the negative numbers. Please keep safe and warm.


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## Click-N-Treat

Thanks Skylar. I am not looking forward to -27 (-32c). My husband has already decided that his car won't start, sorry, can't go to work. Ditto with my daughter. Nope, car won't start. Not going anywhere. The dogs will not be going outside at all. Potty pads are a good thing in an emergency and that kind of cold is an emergency. I think what scares me most about this cold is losing power would be terrifying. There's a reason Chicago is called Chi-beria. It will be colder in Chicago than in Siberia on Wednesday.


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## Click-N-Treat

Not only is it supposed to have a low of -27, but 30 mile and hour winds, too. Combined it will feel like -60 degrees. I just hope the power stays on. We have wood for the fireplace in case it doesn't. We'll hunker down here and get through it, but wow, that's gonna be cold.


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## lily cd re

Awesome! I know how stressful it is to be miserable trying to get to a trial. You saw the effects in the AM trial, but you both shook it off really well as your afternoon trial shows! 



Winter does seem to be rearing an ugly look for the week upcoming. Stay safe, have fun and get that 3rd leg.


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## mvhplank

Congratulations! :cheers2:

I have decided this year to take January and February off from showing. I just don't want to end up making a "donation" to a club if the weather turns wretched. I can make day-of decisions for show-and-goes, so it's not like we're not getting out at all.

I was raised in the deep south (Alabama) and although I've been here in Pennsylvania for a few decades, I find that really cold weather (as in single digits and colder) to be miserable. I take it personally, and curse it soundly. And if you throw snow in on top of it, I'm not fit to live with. :devil:


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## Click-N-Treat

Thank you for the cheer! It wasn't the easiest trial to get to. Several people at my club take the winter off with trialing. Winter can make travel difficult, that's for sure. Still, I'd rather have to deal with cold weather than trying to cope with a trial in the heat.

"Abstract

Six control subjects and eight subjects with type 1 and type 2 diabetes were studied to understand the relationship between skin temperature, central body temperature, and sweat rate. The results of the experiments show that for all diabetic subjects (both type 1 and type 2) heat tolerance was poor. In fact, with a 30 minute exposure to an environmental temperature of 42˚C, even though subjects were at rest, central body temperature increased 1˚C more than that of controls. Further, skin temperature also increased. The reason for the increase in skin temperature and central body temperature appeared to be a failure of sweating. Sweating was lower at any skin temperature or at any skin location in diabetic compared with control subjects. Thus both Type 1 and Type 2 diabetic subjects were more susceptible to heat stress. This could have significant implications for heat disorders such as heat stroke for individuals with diabetes."

https://www.jarcet.com/articles/Vol3Iss1/PETROFSKY.htm

I am definitely in the group of people who heat up and cannot figure out how to cool off. It's awful. It feels like I just get hotter and hotter even with a fan blowing on me. My body doesn't know how to deal with heat, so I get hot and stay there. My club is not air conditioned. I will not go to class in the heat this year and I probably won't trial in the summer. For me, summer is way more dangerous than winter. Insulin can denature inside my pump if it gets too hot. At least if it is cold outside, I can put my pump and tubing against my body. 90 degrees vs -9? I'll take -9.

I'm unsure about -27 though. That's going to be... interesting.


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## Click-N-Treat

Here is the course map for trial #1.


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## Click-N-Treat

Here is the course map for trial two.


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## lily cd re

Click I totally hear you on being more miserable being too hot. There are only so many thing you can take off to cool down before you end up in hand cuffs, but you can always add more layers and stay decent. 


Those are nice looking courses. They aren't jammed up with maximum numbers of signs and the route to get through them is quite clear.


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## mvhplank

Re the course maps: I'm a UKC rally judge, so I create courses for each judging assignment. Sometimes I reuse previous courses, if they're new to the area where I'll be judging.

But I've got this "thing" about using all available space, and those corners with nothing in them would quickly get redesigned in my ring. The hosts paid for the whole ring, so why not use it? If there's a long stretch between signs, well, that's a test of the team's heeling skills.

-------

Regarding cold vs. heat, I have a couple of friends with Raynaud's syndrome, which is pretty much the opposite of what you describe in diabetics. If my friends' extremities, particularly fingers, get cold, the blood flow is constricted and the affected parts may turn blue. It makes grocery shopping a challenge unless they wear gloves to handle frozen food.

I found, when I was showing horses, that Gatorade would help me tolerate the heat. Without it, I'd get headaches and digestive "upset." With it, I didn't much care how hot it was. My folks didn't have air conditioning in the home until long after I left. August often had 100/100--temperatures in the high 90s to low 100s and humidity in the same range. 

Click-n-treat, you and I wouldn't fare well as housemates, if we had to share a thermostat.


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## Click-N-Treat

First thing I did in my hotel room was set the thermostat to 64 degrees. You would freeze for sure.


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> First thing I did in my hotel room was set the thermostat to 64 degrees. You would freeze for sure.


*TRUTH! :thumb:*

My office has a little electric heater to keep it "comfortable"--the thermometer on the shelf says 75 F, but it's cooler on the floor. The thermostat for the rest of the house is set at a "low" 65 F during the day. Nighttime setting is 62 and the covers are over my ears.


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## Click-N-Treat

Come Front is the sign Noelle struggles with the most. I have no idea why. She'll do call front a thousand times in a row at home, and at my club, but put it in a trial ring and she's baffled by it. I may use Call Front as a warm up just to make it more fun and less confusing for Noelle.


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## zooeysmom

Click-N-Treat said:


> Come Front is the sign Noelle struggles with the most. I have no idea why. She'll do call front a thousand times in a row at home, and at my club, but put it in a trial ring and she's baffled by it. I may use Call Front as a warm up just to make it more fun and less confusing for Noelle.


Well of course--the ring is much harder due to the stress! 

Now, do you mean you have trouble even with backing steps, or from a halt/sit to a come front? For the latter, I really bend my whole body and use my arms to steer Frosty to front. As long as your feet stay firmly in place, you can really use your body to guide her.


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## Click-N-Treat

If I have the chance to walk back a few steps, Noelle heels backward with me. Wrong sign. It's adorable, but wrong sign. If I have her do the Advanced sit call front signs, Noelle will sit in heel, go half way out in front, look around the ring in confusion, return to heel and look at me like, "Nah uh. Last time you gestured for me to go in front of you, I was abducted by aliens. I'm gonna stay in heel, where it's safe."

I'm going to have to convince Noelle that aliens will not abduct her if she goes out in front and sits. Well, there was that one time when the aliens landed in the ring, but we were able to get away from them by doing a 180 pivot left.


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## lily cd re

Ring warm up call front. Don't do any steps back and as ZM suggested use your upper body to show Noelle the path to front and when she sits give a cookie. Rinse Repeat...


For novice level call front you can take steps back, but you don't have to and if that doesn't help Noelle don't do it.


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> Come Front is the sign Noelle struggles with the most. I have no idea why. She'll do call front a thousand times in a row at home, and at my club, but put it in a trial ring and she's baffled by it. I may use Call Front as a warm up just to make it more fun and less confusing for Noelle.


At the last rally trial I attended, we had a BIG disconnect on the call front in both our Master runs. A generous judge passed both of them, but just barely.

I drove home, did a bit of meditating, and decided, "hey, it's rally!" and practiced really BIG signals, both hands together, bending, twisting, and leading the way with the signals and commanding "Front!" (Just using my right hand was sending him right around my body back to heel.) I used the same technique for dog-circles-left/right.

Our scores improved quite a lot in the second day's runs.

We have two Qs to go for the RM title. We'll have a chance to do that in March. Then I might support some local clubs and finish RAE3, since we already have some scores toward that, but I just don't have the money to chase triple Qs for RACH. 

Next, we'll try for the AKC regular UD and PUDX (10 QQs in Preferred Open and Preferred Utility in the same trial). The failure rate in obedience is pretty high, so it helps to go places where you have friends showing who can offer support and constructive feedback. 

M


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## Click-N-Treat

Thank you. It does say we can't move our feet. Arms, body, hands, fingers, are all fine. I'll have to practice it as a warm up at the trial site.


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## galofpink

I don't compete or anything and barely go to class, but Shae and I love to practice fronts and finishes at home at breakfast time. I stay stationary and call fronts and then finishes, so basically she's just doing loops. I used to have to use a big swooping left arm to guide her to the front position. We started with big and exciting arm movements with two small steps back and now I'm down to subtle arm movements in a stationary position.

After calling the front, I'll call "circle" (finish right) or call "back" (finish left, yes poor word choice given the walk backwards later in rally levels), with big swooping arm movements if needed for attention. We will alternate through those a couple times. Throw in a pivot or two because that's fun. Throw in a sit, down, sit because that's easy. How about a spin here because what poodle wants to keep drilling the same thing and spinning is fun! Maybe a sit, stand. Then do a few more call fronts. I find this keeps the morning breakfast routine fun, though now that Shae is confident with the call fronts and finishes she just bounces through them like romping in the field - she just loves to show me how fast she make her butt fly around me from front to finish. 

It took a long time for it to click beautifully for us, but I think once you "convince" Noelle that fronts and finishes are fun, you'll find she will eagerly join the dance. Click, you and Noelle are a fantastic team, you'll have this down in no time!!!


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## Click-N-Treat

Oh, she knows how to do these rocket fast everywhere except the trial ring. It's the show ring that's making her nervous. I think it's because she has to put her back to a strange environment that is, at this point anyway, new and a little alarming. Once Noelle gets comfortable in the trial environment, she loosens up and has fun. First score 76. Second score 93. Same ring, same judge, only difference? After her first run she was familiar with the ring. 

Getting Noelle in lots of rings frequently is the only solution to her hesitation. Many many positive experiences in many many different locations, and it always being happy and fun, will allow Noelle to perform better. So far she has not generalized the concept of training ring. We go to a different place and it's a box with gates. I know it's a ring gate and I know what is expected inside a ring. Noelle is still learning that ring gates can be at places other than at our home training club. 

If you teach a dog to sit in the kitchen, you also have to teach the dog to sit in the living room. Once the dog masters sit in the house, you have to teach it all over again in the back yard. And it's a new behavior in the front yard, too. And a new behavior on the corner of your block. Sit is a brand new behavior for a long, long, long time, until the dog realizes that sit means sit, here, there and everywhere. 

Right now, Noelle is learning that training rings are training rings, here, there, and everywhere. Once she generalizes, probably within six months to a year, if I trial often enough, Noelle will be happy to enter a ring and understand fully what is expected of her. She's unsure of herself and it's showing up by ear scratching and refusing to put her back to the strangers around the ring. It will get better with practice and time.


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## galofpink

Too bad they don't make (trial sanctioned) goggles you could put on her that makes her see the kitchen instead of the ring, huh!? Time and practice will get you there - you two are such an inspiration to the rest of us so I know you'll get it down


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## Click-N-Treat

We practiced Excellent signs. If Noelle Q's on Saturday, we'll move up to Excellent A on Sunday. Excellent is, weirdly, easier than Advanced, except for walk backward three steps and the moving downs. Noelle nailed a few of those today. Her walk backward is out of position, but still qualifying. We'll keep working on getting it straighter over the next few weeks. We'll trial again in March. 

Given Noelle's ring hesitation, I think we'll do Master on the first day of the trial and try to TQ on the second day. We may do this routine for a very, very, extremely long time before we get RaCh, but we'll get there eventually I think.


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## Click-N-Treat

I took a break from training class because myasthenia gravis decided, without warning or permission, to weaken every muscle in my body. I couldn't function, so I had to take a few weeks off. Today we went back to our club for the first time in a month.

I took Noelle through the rally excellent course that was laid out. She did extremely well! I was really surprised and pleased. She was more focused and connected than I anticipated. We struggled with Moving Down and Walk Around, but nailed the Moving Stand/Stay/Finish Recall just perfectly. 

My friend Cathy, who was acting as judge, said, "Wow!"

Noelle halts on a dime, probably because of Service Dog work. We stand/stay over and over in public, so a sudden stand stay is no big thing to Noelle. 

She backed up three steps. It was crooked. It wasn't pretty, but it was still in reverse, and that made me happy. Noelle's favorite sign "Double Left About Turn" was in there, too. All in all, it was a great practice run after a month off. Noelle completely enjoyed herself and I loved it, too.

I think trialing again in April might not be as big of a stretch as I thought. Rally On!


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## lily cd re

Sometimes the best thing you can do for your dog is take a break for a while. It is too bad it was for such a cruddy reason, but I am glad you re feeling better and had a great return to the training ring!


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## Skylar

Click-N-Treat said:


> I took a break from training class because myasthenia gravis decided, without warning or permission, to weaken every muscle in my body. I couldn't function, so I had to take a few weeks off. Today we went back to our club for the first time in a month.
> 
> I took Noelle through the rally excellent course that was laid out. She did extremely well! I was really surprised and pleased. She was more focused and connected than I anticipated. We struggled with Moving Down and Walk Around, but nailed the Moving Stand/Stay/Finish Recall just perfectly.
> 
> My friend Cathy, who was acting as judge, said, "Wow!"
> 
> Noelle halts on a dime, probably because of Service Dog work. We stand/stay over and over in public, so a sudden stand stay is no big thing to Noelle.
> 
> She backed up three steps. It was crooked. It wasn't pretty, but it was still in reverse, and that made me happy. Noelle's favorite sign "Double Left About Turn" was in there, too. All in all, it was a great practice run after a month off. Noelle completely enjoyed herself and I loved it, too.
> 
> I think trialing again in April might not be as big of a stretch as I thought. Rally On!


I find it interesting that you found taking a short, unexpected break from training helped Noelle come back more focused and connected. My friend had to take a short break while her dog was in heat and then she had some construction in her house. She also felt it improved her dog's focus.

I'm glad you had a great practice run - especially when Noelle enjoyed it too.


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## Click-N-Treat

While I was resting, Noelle and I played a ton of the five cookie game, look at that, and It's Yer Choice. Work on focus and attention paid dividends in a big way tonight. 

Tonight, I was bored. So, I got Noelle's dumbbell out. Noelle has struggled with hold. The suggestions of holding her mouth shut, or stroking her neck, hasn't helped. It only made Noelle thrash and fight against what I was doing. So, tonight I wondered if I could just shape a dumbbell hold. Shaping involves rewarding the dog for tiny steps in the right direction, and gradually increasing the criteria for a reward.

I had a plastic container with a bunch of treats, the dumbbell, and no expectations. I held the dumbbell sideways so she had to turn her head to pick it up by the stick. Touching it, click treat (c/t). Getting it, c/t. Getting it and spitting it out, c/t. Getting it and holding it for a breath, c/t. We inched our way up to a full on hold. 










Wow! Good girl, Noelle. That's the way you do it. I never thought she'd get it. Now we're on the right track and going in the right direction. Yay!


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## lily cd re

Lily has had a couple of times where we took breaks from trialing and she was always better when we went back. Training breaks can work the same way. Nice job with the dumbbell Miss Noelle. It isn't poison after all!


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## Skylar

Click, shaping is how I trained dumbbell as well. Babykins reacted just like Noelle. 

Her hold has improved over time naturally as I take longer and longer before I ask her to give it to me. I also realized when she’s in front position and looking up at me it’s easier to keep it in the mouth.


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## lily cd re

Once you have a good pick up and return to front you can proof the dumbbell by putting your hands on it like you are going to take it but then let go without doing so and you can also have "judge" tell you to take it while you do nothing. Always take your dumbbell with both hands. Afterwards when you get the judge's order to finish the dog put it in your right hand if you do a left finish and in your left hand if you do a right finish. Make sure you don't lure the finish with the dumbbell.


Lily always charged out to get the dumbbell and came back with joie de vivre but always spat it out when she was about 6 feet away from me (I had taught her to put balls down when she was very young because she was very grabby and mouthy over them). I just could not get a way to shape it since she was 100% reliable at dropping the dumbbell at a distance where I could not reach for and take it. I ended up doing a very gentle version of an ear pinch, really just holding her ear while having her sit at front and letting go when she took the dumbbell. This gave her the picture of sitting at front with it in her mouth. It didn't take long and now her retrieve is 100% reliable. I know not everyone would teach this behavior with a coercive, but it does give you a way to give a correction for a failure to retrieve.


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## mvhplank

I'm glad that taking a break worked such wonders! We spend these snowy winter days doing fronts and finishes in the kitchen. Also a little Command Discrimination in the stretch between the dining room and living room.

Re shaping the dumbbell, that's the way I taught both rat terriers (not particularly natural retrievers) and the poodle.

We started with nosing the dumbbell, taking it in the mouth, picking it up from the floor, and so on.

This video is from when he was a puppy, 4.5 months old. It's 3 minutes, which is a tad long and repetitive, but you get the idea. We weren't working on a formal front and didn't do a finish. Just throw, bring dumbbell, get string cheese.

https://youtu.be/Nd1rSrhTuKc

M


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## Click-N-Treat

Well, Noelle is now in love with her dumbbell. She brings it to front and sits nicely with it, and doesn't drop it. I've been pretending to touch it on the sides, and then quickly taking my hands away, while making silly noises. Then I touch it for real and she waits for me to ask for it. "Give." And she gives it 100% of the time.

I set the dumbbell on one side of the room and restrained Noelle and wouldn't let her go get it. When I said, "Get it!" Noelle almost exploded from excitement. She flew over, snatched it and raced back in a blur. Wow, that was fun to see.

She is also jumping with the dumbbell onto my bed, so we have the jumping while holding a dumbbell puzzle piece started as well. My bed is considerably higher than her 18" jump height, too. I had her heel while holding a dumbbell. I'm letting her explore the idea that she can do stuff while holding a dumbbell. It's fun to watch the lights turn on.

I've also been paying attention to Noelle's arousal and thresholds. I've discovered the distance between engaged and crazy dog isn't as far apart as I'd like. Noelle can get overstimulated while playing with her dumbbell. I've also discovered I can put the dumbbell away and play It's Yer Choice and it resets her head.

Petting gets Noelle cranked up during training, no matter how gently I offer it. If I pet Noelle at any point, she turns into a jumping, barking, pawing, spinning, crazy dog. I think she likes it way too much. Verbal praise gets her tail wagging, but keeps her engaged. So, hands off.

Noelle likes verbal feedback, which is probably why Rally is so successful and Obedience is a struggle. Still, we're trailing in both this spring. I have a brand new obedience class on Thursday with the same trainer who introduced us to rally. The class is called Fun Obedience and its a competition class at all levels. I think it's going to be a fantastic fit for us. Onward!


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## Click-N-Treat

This is Noelle. I want to tell you about what happened today in our rally class but I am so excited I may need to calms down a bit. It was a newish place. I was distractified and not paying attention on our first run. I wandered around and sniffed the floor. On our second run, Mom keeped the leash on for the first two signs, and then she taked it off. We had fun on our second run. On our third run, OMG, poodles. OMG, you will not believe what happened.

The teacher told my mom to go and have fun with me in the ring. Ignore the signs, and just go out and have fun together. We heeled to the start sign. We did my favorite sign in the world, double about left turn. And then, and then, OMG, there was a jump. A sit, call over the jump, front, finish, sit. Mom said wait. I waited. Mom said, Front and I came flying front over the jump. WHOOSH! Sit. Finish, sit. 

I thought we were going to go to the next sign, but we didn't. Instead, mom said wait, and we did the same jump again. Zoom! I flied over the jump. I flied and flew. And then she did that again. And again. And AGAIN! I jumped and jumped and leaped and jumped and it was so much fun. I didn't know I could haves that much fun with mom. I loved it. Yay, meeee!

Love,
Noelle

Click here. 

I think I'm going to mix up my training this way on purpose. Sometimes we'll do the rally run as marked. And sometimes we'll just fly over the jumps over and over. Noelle adored it, and it made being in the ring exciting. I can also use crazy jump game as a sudden reward out of nowhere during training. Finish a sign on one side of the room and then run over to the jump and do the jump game four times. Back to the signs again.

Treats are nice, but not the only possible reward. I need to remember to mix it up and no doubt jumps are fun for Noelle. I think that may have been the most engaged and the most joyful I have ever seen my dog. Today was a blast. Exhausting, but a blast.


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## lily cd re

Play rewards are at least as reinforcing for most dogs as food rewards. I will take time outs for tugging if I see things starting to go flat. It gives you your dog back. At the workshops I have been to at Top Dog Obedience in New Jersey there is always a lot of emphasis on playing games to take breaks and games as proofs and reinforcements of exercises. Keep having fun Noelle!


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## Skylar

Click-N-Treat said:


> This is Noelle. I want to tell you about what happened today in our rally class but I am so excited I may need to calms down a bit. It was a newish place. I was distractified and not paying attention on our first run. I wandered around and sniffed the floor. On our second run, Mom keeped the leash on for the first two signs, and then she taked it off. We had fun on our second run. On our third run, OMG, poodles. OMG, you will not believe what happened.
> 
> The teacher told my mom to go and have fun with me in the ring. Ignore the signs, and just go out and have fun together. We heeled to the start sign. We did my favorite sign in the world, double about left turn. And then, and then, OMG, there was a jump. A sit, call over the jump, front, finish, sit. Mom said wait. I waited. Mom said, Front and I came flying front over the jump. WHOOSH! Sit. Finish, sit.
> 
> I thought we were going to go to the next sign, but we didn't. Instead, mom said wait, and we did the same jump again. Zoom! I flied over the jump. I flied and flew. And then she did that again. And again. And AGAIN! I jumped and jumped and leaped and jumped and it was so much fun. I didn't know I could haves that much fun with mom. I loved it. Yay, meeee!
> 
> Love,
> Noelle
> 
> Click here.
> 
> I think I'm going to mix up my training this way on purpose. Sometimes we'll do the rally run as marked. And sometimes we'll just fly over the jumps over and over. Noelle adored it, and it made being in the ring exciting. I can also use crazy jump game as a sudden reward out of nowhere during training. Finish a sign on one side of the room and then run over to the jump and do the jump game four times. Back to the signs again.
> 
> Treats are nice, but not the only possible reward. I need to remember to mix it up and no doubt jumps are fun for Noelle. I think that may have been the most engaged and the most joyful I have ever seen my dog. Today was a blast. Exhausting, but a blast.


I love when I see a jump or two in a rally trial because I know it energizes Babykins too. What's more fun? Turning boring circles, heeling serpentines and pivots................. or flying over a jump. Noelle must have looked so cute as she jumped - I bet she had a huge smile on her face.

Be careful not to get her too excited about jumps because I've seen dogs run off course to the jump. I presume in AKC like in WCRL rally there is often more than one rally sign up against the jump so you might heel past a jump more than once before coming to the sign to perform a jump. I do like your idea of mixing it up in your rally runs. My rally class rarely has courses set up - normally we work on separate exercises and maybe have a sequence or three signs. I'm going to be a drop in for an AKC class which is just rally courses set up - that's going to be a very difference experience. Is that what your course is like - each week you come and there is a course set up to run?


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## Click-N-Treat

Each week a different course is set up for us to take our dogs through. A trainer is on hand to help evaluate and coach on how to make it go smoother. I really enjoy run-throughs because it helps me put together what a whole course will look like in a trial. As far as jump excitement, I always had Noelle do a sit/stay before calling her front over the jump. That way, self control was built into the fun. She really quivered with excitement, though, but never moved unless told.

We've been heeling past jumps for months and Noelle has never decided to take a jump for fun. Now that I've said that, I bet next week there might be some unplanned airborne poodle moments.

I want to use the stay/jump over and over game as a random reward that might happen during a run. Most of the time, it won't, but sometimes it will. I'll keep it unpredictable so it's extra exciting to get into the ring with me. Noelle was laughing. I could hear it. It was sweet.


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## Click-N-Treat

Sometimes, you need a new perspective. I've been training at an old school AKC club for a long time. I went to a clicker training class for rally last week. In three seconds, the trainer helped me figure out why Noelle checks out mentally during training and trials. I trained Noelle to check out!

The trainer showed me I have created a behavior chain.

1. Noelle noodles around on her own agenda.
2. I get Noelle's attention.
3. Noelle does requested behavior.
4. Noelle is rewarded
5. Noelle noodles around on her own agenda.

I never trained what to do after the treat! My last dog understood as a puppy that after the click/treat, another click/treat was coming, so Honey automatically reoriented to me. Noelle doesn't realize she could turn to me after a click/treat, so she gets confused and tunes out. It's the reorient to me part of our behavior chain that is broken, and will continue to be broken, until I work to fix it. 

Three seconds with a different trainer with a different philosophy, and bang! Now, I understand where the weak part is. I'm working on creating this behavior chain instead.

1. Noelle is paying attention.
2. Noelle does requested behavior.
3. Click/Treat
4. Reorient to me.
5. Click/jackpot reorienting
6. Noelle is paying attention and set up for the next behavior.

I'm focusing my training efforts on getting that straightened out. Nothing else matters until Noelle understands that she should reorient and wait for the next cue. It's funny how in Rally I worried about the signs, telling a left 360 degree turn from a right 360, when that's the easiest part of Rally. The crucial part is what happens after the sign is completed. Getting from one sign to the next is the hard part for us as a team.

I got some free standing baby gates and set up a training ring in my yard that I can take down and put up. Noelle is a context specific dog, and training focus and attention in the living room wasn't helping her understand what I wanted her to do in the ring. Now I have a training ring to practice. 

Sit and pay attention is how we get in the ring. Focus and attention games in the ring are how we have fun between exercises. Heel for a bit, and then attention games, heel again. Sit/stay, attention games, sit/stay again. I'm not giving Noelle opportunities to rehearse checking out behaviors in the ring. It will take time to create a new behavior chain, but at least now I know which direction to go.


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## lily cd re

This is where the five cookie attention at heel is useful. I now don't need the cookies although I use them to refresh the dog's commitment to what at heel attention is about. You have a good model there to get that attention after the click to become a default, similar to my five cookie thing.


For obedience as opposed to rally I am developing a routine for Javelin that will come right after the judge says exercise finished. I will invite him to give a quick hug, make eye contact, good boy said and immediately his set up order of get close. He is understanding this pretty well at this point and is setting up faster and more engaged for the next exercise. You might also want to think about a routine like that. You can use it at the end of a rally run and during an obedience routine at the end of each exercise. It has to be quick and very under control so as not to waste time or give a judge an excuse to ding you for something like a handler error.


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## Click-N-Treat

We've been training in our backyard training ring. My husband built us a PVC jump over the weekend. 










The bar is set at 12 inches for rally. If I flip it around, the bar is 18 inches, which is Noelle's obedience jump height. Noelle and I worked on all the different rally jump signs. #210 Send To Jump is getting better. That one is the weakest. It's actually why I wanted to build Noelle a jump so we could practice. Send to jump, send to cone, those are challenging for Noelle.

I've also been working on ring sniffing and attention. I've decided there is not a food anywhere that can compete with sniffing the ring mats. Tune out, sniff floor, wander around aimlessly. Sniff floor. Huh? Oh, heel, right. Done heeling, whatever, time to sniff the floor.

How do I motivate Noelle? How do I get Noelle to tune in and deeply engage with me in the ring? I thought and thought about it. I went to the pet store and brought home the usual stuff. As I was putting everything away, Noelle grabbed the new unstuffed squeaky fox toy and did a happy dance in the kitchen. She wanted me to play tug.

Noelle has always liked her toy foxes. I have about 10 of them. I get a new one each time I go shopping because she rips them up so fast. There's nothing Noelle likes better than a vigorous game of tug with her beloved squeaky fox.

Wait. 

There is nothing Noelle likes better than playing tug with a squeaky fox?

I wonder what would happen, if I put the toy fox in my pocket. And what if I started walking a heeling pattern by myself? Noelle joined me in heel. Her head was up, eyes shining, beaming with joy, and prancing beside me. Suddenly, the fox escaped my pocket. We played tug and laughed. Then the fox hid in my pocket again. More heeling. This time it was snappier and more focused than before. 

I took the fox with me to rally class. Instead of sniffing the floor, Noelle locked eyes with me and we danced our way through the rally course. She never paused to sniff the ring. All she wanted was to earn her fox. 

Today we went to another rally class at a different training club. Surely that was a fluke. Noelle always sniffs the ring here. But, nope. We connected again. And we also did wonderful work in the obedience ring, too. 

Have you ever watched a child learn to ride a bicycle? That wobbly, near crashing hesitation transforms like magic. Posture adjusts, understanding dawns, and the kid flies down the street on their bike. Everyone in the neighborhood starts cheering. That feeling, that's what class was like for Noelle tonight.

Tonight she understood the ring is a place where we connect. The ring is where we do fun things together. Noelle never sniffed the floor. Eyes locked on mine, energy high, and happy we heeled and heeled and heeled. Noelle was so focused aliens could have landed in the middle of the ring and Noelle would not have noticed. They could have held a barbecue afterward, and Noelle would not have noticed. It was magical. Breakthroughs rock.


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## lily cd re

For sure play can be a better motivator/attention getter than food for many dogs. Good on you for reading your sweet girl so well. Initially you can use the tug after one sign, then after two, then after three or four. Once you stretch out the interval between the tug breaks then you can make the schedule random and also think about leaving the fox outside the ring and get an orderly attentive exit then tug. This will get Noelle to understand that the fox is coming but not in the actual ring.


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## Click-N-Treat

The fox is on random reinforcement. During our first rally run, just having the fox in my pocket was enough for Noelle to nail every sign without stopping to play at all. I'm already slowly transitioning to having the fox available outside of the ring for play. The fox is on a shelf in the house. We do some work, then go get the fox. I tried having the fox outside of the ring at class during our second run-through, but Noelle was too distracted. I moved ahead too quickly and learned where the limit is.

I don't want the fox to become the cue that it's time to work. Work first and then play with the fox as a reward outside of the ring is my goal. Today's plan is two foxes. One in my pocket and one in a chair outside of the ring. I'll surprise Noelle by having a new fox escape my pocket in our training ring. That will, hopefully, make Noelle less worried about the fox on the chair. We will alternate between playing with the fox on the chair, and playing with the fox escaping my pocket. And gradually, over the next few weeks, Noelle will get used to playing with the fox outside of the ring 90% of the time. Every once in a while, the fox will come out to play in the ring. Noelle will never know when that will happen. Keeping her guessing keeps her from stressing. Her nose never hit the floor yesterday. She was too invested in what we were doing together to stop and sniff the floor.

My next trial has a fun match the night before. The two fox game will be useful for sure. We'll be in a new space, but the fox will still there. During the match, the second fox will come out to play several times. During the trial, I want Noelle to be wondering when the second fox will appear. If she's busying guessing, she won't be sniffing the floor and checked out.

Time to go train.


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## mvhplank

Here's something to keep in the back of your mind, and you may be equipped to understand how it works better than any of the rest of us.

I ran into an article by Stanley Coren, who writes the Canine Corner column on the _Psychology Today_ website. This particular article is about the effect of blood glucose on a dog's ability to exhibit self-control. (Dog Self-Control Requires Energy Resources) 

Here's how we arrived at our new plan:

Neely has been going a bit "flat" the longer we stay at the trial, and, since we're still doing UKC and therefore still doing stays, there are sometimes added demands on his self-control.
Neely has Addison's, which means he can't make his own adrenaline or cortisol (the stress hormones). He's on a daily prednisone pill to mimic cortisol and a monthly long-acting shot (Zycortal) to mimic adrenaline. 
Boosting his prednisone at a trial has the effect of making him a bit loopy.

Last weekend I took along several little snack-size ziplock bags that each contained 20 grams of mini marshmallows, which are mostly made from corn syrup. Over the course of each day, he got about 40 grams, a little more on the second day than the first, which might have been just a 30-gram day. 

For his last run of the weekend, he scored 193, which is his highest score to date in either preferred or regular Open. Even better, he felt the most "connected" to me than he ever has in a trial. I'll experiment with finding an effective "dose." And ... it turns out my obedience instructor has used Nutrical with her Shelties from time to time as a little energy boost.


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## Click-N-Treat

After today's training session, I was about to remove the jump from the center of our training ring o'baby gates. Noelle had the toy fox in her mouth and was relaxing when I walked inside the ring. Noelle dropped the fox outside the gate, ran into the ring, and lined herself up in heel position without prompting. 

She chose heeling with me over her fox toy! 

YAY!!!!


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## Skylar

Click-N-Treat said:


> After today's training session, I was about to remove the jump from the center of our training ring o'baby gates. Noelle had the toy fox in her mouth and was relaxing when I walked inside the ring. Noelle dropped the fox outside the gate, ran into the ring, and lined herself up in heel position without prompting.
> 
> She chose heeling with me over her fox toy!
> 
> YAY!!!!


OMG, that's amazing.

I love your new rally trainer's philosophy - and exactly what you discovered with Noelle is similar to what I've been dealing with Babykins. I've been using Catherine's 5 cookie game. I'm doing it when I get her into position, when we're heeling and also when we're outside when there's something drawing her attention like a friendly puppy. I do find it working. I also found that I needed to have really tiny pieces because if I used a larger piece she moves her head away to eat and swallow the food before turning back attention to me which defeats the purpose.

We also have a fox with squeakers that we use in training - funny that Noelle does too. It pops out every once and a while as a nice surprise. 

I wished we lived closer - I could learn a lot from watching you train Noelle.


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## Skylar

mvhplank said:


> Here's something to keep in the back of your mind, and you may be equipped to understand how it works better than any of the rest of us.
> 
> I ran into an article by Stanley Coren, who writes the Canine Corner column on the _Psychology Today_ website. This particular article is about the effect of blood glucose on a dog's ability to exhibit self-control. (Dog Self-Control Requires Energy Resources)
> 
> Here's how we arrived at our new plan:
> 
> Neely has been going a bit "flat" the longer we stay at the trial, and, since we're still doing UKC and therefore still doing stays, there are sometimes added demands on his self-control.
> Neely has Addison's, which means he can't make his own adrenaline or cortisol (the stress hormones). He's on a daily prednisone pill to mimic cortisol and a monthly long-acting shot (Zycortal) to mimic adrenaline.
> Boosting his prednisone at a trial has the effect of making him a bit loopy.
> 
> Last weekend I took along several little snack-size ziplock bags that each contained 20 grams of mini marshmallows, which are mostly made from corn syrup. Over the course of each day, he got about 40 grams, a little more on the second day than the first, which might have been just a 30-gram day.
> 
> For his last run of the weekend, he scored 193, which is his highest score to date in either preferred or regular Open. Even better, he felt the most "connected" to me than he ever has in a trial. I'll experiment with finding an effective "dose." And ... it turns out my obedience instructor has used Nutrical with her Shelties from time to time as a little energy boost.


mvhplank, WOW, I never heard of this. I have to test this out.

At my last rally trial, my friend made one of those box mix white confetti cakes and she was giving some to her dog as a reward after each run. It seemed to be the oddest treat but now reading Stanley Coren's article, I can see the value. I'm so glad you posted this and that it's working for Neely.


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## Click-N-Treat

As a type 1 diabetic, I know that stress affects me in two different ways. It can make my blood sugar drop, or it can shoot it up higher. When we ask our dogs to do work in a trial environment, we're putting them under stress. This article is assuming stress is making a dog's blood sugar drop, when it could be skyrocketing.

Symptoms of low blood sugar: confusion and difficulty concentrating. Symptoms of high blood sugar: confusion and difficulty concentrating. 

Instead of pure sugar, I'd rather offer a dog a blend of fat, protein, and carbs between show runs. If the dog's sugar is high, digesting the fat and protein will slow the rise. If the dog is low on energy, carbs will raise it just a little bit. And what food is a perfect blend of fat, protein, and carbs? Peanut butter. 

If your dog doesn't like peanut butter, you can make cream cheese frosting with a little powdered sugar and it'll work the same way. Sweet enough to taste good, but not so sweet you'd frost a cake with it. Load up a squeeze tube and you're ready to go. https://www.rei.com/product/696007/coghlans-squeeze-tubes-package-of-2


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## Skylar

Click, I’m so glad you posted that stress could drop or rise the blood sugar level. Babykins can’t have high fat, diary or legumes so peanut butter and cream cheese frosting are not options for her. But her regular home made food has whole carbohydrates (potatoes, carrots, oatmeal) in addition to turkey. Oatmeal and turkey have more fat than the 1% fat in potatoes. Maybe I should experiment giving her some banana during competition along with her regular food for additional sugar? Or would adding some powdered icing sugar be a better choice.


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> As a type 1 diabetic, I know that stress affects me in two different ways. It can make my blood sugar drop, or it can shoot it up higher. When we ask our dogs to do work in a trial environment, we're putting them under stress. This article is assuming stress is making a dog's blood sugar drop, when it could be skyrocketing.
> 
> Symptoms of low blood sugar: confusion and difficulty concentrating. Symptoms of high blood sugar: confusion and difficulty concentrating.
> 
> Instead of pure sugar, I'd rather offer a dog a blend of fat, protein, and carbs between show runs. If the dog's sugar is high, digesting the fat and protein will slow the rise. If the dog is low on energy, carbs will raise it just a little bit. And what food is a perfect blend of fat, protein, and carbs? Peanut butter.
> 
> If your dog doesn't like peanut butter, you can make cream cheese frosting with a little powdered sugar and it'll work the same way. Sweet enough to taste good, but not so sweet you'd frost a cake with it. Load up a squeeze tube and you're ready to go. https://www.rei.com/product/696007/coghlans-squeeze-tubes-package-of-2


I knew you would have some good insights based on your experience. One of Neely's favorite treats is peanut butter crackers--and one of mine, too, as it happens. I find the protein-carb combination gives me a bit of a boost if I feel a bit shaky and hungry. Even though feeding mini marshmallows did seem to have a positive effect at the trials, it's good to have another option available.

I would suspect that, based on Neely's regular diet of grain-free, fish-based kibble, sometimes garnished with hot dog pieces, that he may tend more to the low BG side than too high. And I'm still learning what role Addison's disease plays in his whole body chemistry.

He's on grain-free not because he has a bad reaction to grains but because that's the way this fish-based kibble is manufactured. He has an allergic reaction to chicken that irritates his ears and can lead to an ear infection very quickly. He gets a hard Milk Bone biscuit (he loves them) when he's put in his crate, so he does get some grain in his diet.

It appears to me that sometimes he craves what he needs. The days before he was diagnosed with Addison's, it got to the point that the only thing he would eat is hot dogs--full of sodium, of course. His diagnostic blood tests showed he was very low in sodium and very high in potassium, which is a classic tip-off for Addison's.

He had his regular electrolyte test on Monday, and sodium, potassium, and chloride are all right smack in the "Normal" range. Praise be--no change in medications is needed.


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## lily cd re

This is a fascinating discussion. I either use string cheese (not low fat) or chicken "brownies" for training and trial rewards. The chicken brownie recipe is to make a firm meat loaf consistency mix of ground chicken, egg, bread crumbs, abundant parmesan cheese and a bit of garlic powder (optional if your feelings run against onions and garlic). Spread it into an oil sprayed pan like brownies and bake at 375 or 400 until the edges pull away just like brownies. Cool and then cut into small pieces (which I then often break in half to use). I have been carrying them around with me this week because there are Canada geese nesting on the flat roof of the building next to mine and we have been dealing with finding the gander to be a very attractive nuisance. 



I have a question which is would you judge those to be appropriate in fat/protein content to serve the purpose of something like peanut butter or cream cheese, neither of which Lily or Javelin cares much for?


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## Skylar

lily cd re said:


> This is a fascinating discussion. I either use string cheese (not low fat) or chicken "brownies" for training and trial rewards. The chicken brownie recipe is to make a firm meat loaf consistency mix of ground chicken, egg, bread crumbs, abundant parmesan cheese and a bit of garlic powder (optional if your feelings run against onions and garlic). Spread it into an oil sprayed pan like brownies and bake at 375 or 400 until the edges pull away just like brownies. Cool and then cut into small pieces (which I then often break in half to use). I have been carrying them around with me this week because there are Canada geese nesting on the flat roof of the building next to mine and we have been dealing with finding the gander to be a very attractive nuisance.
> 
> I have a question which is would you judge those to be appropriate in fat/protein content to serve the purpose of something like peanut butter or cream cheese, neither of which Lily or Javelin cares much for?


lots of fat and protein but basically only the breadcrumbs (carbohydrate) is broken down into glucose. Stanley Coren is interesting in adding glucose to help the brain. 

This is an article from Harvard about glucose in the brain and body. Lactate and ketones from breakdown of proteins can fuel the brain but glucose is the preferred fuel. 

https://neuro.hms.harvard.edu/harva...n-newsletter/and-brain-series/sugar-and-brain


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## Skylar

I know in humans, not sure about dogs but I assume it’s the same, it’s best to have a whole source of food so a banan or potato (potato is 9% protein and 1% fat I believe off the top of my head and does have all essential mino acids but in varying amounts) as the source of complex carbohydrates which are packaged with fats and protein so in the digestive tract the body is slowly breaking down and releasing the nutrients and the body can slowly over time absorb and use the nutrients. This is in contrast to eating sugar mixed with oil and protein powder all of which get dumped into the digestive tract ready immediately for every thing to get absorbed at once sometimes overloading the system.


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## Click-N-Treat

The chicken brownies you make have little fat, some carbs, mostly protein. Fat slows down digestion so fat is helpful. Other than possibly adding an extra egg yolk for additional fat, those sound like a good dog rejuvenator. 

For dogs on a more restricted diet, you'll have to come up with a snack that ticks the boxes, focusing on carbs and protein.


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## Click-N-Treat

I finally figured out Noelle's problem with Moving Down. She wasn't clear on what "Down" meant if I was moving first. Think about it. Down is usually a stationary exercise. Heel to the sign, halt, down. Or, in Novice, after the long sit is the long down. All of the sudden I added moving into the picture and Noelle didn't understand what I wanted.

I made some bacon and cut it tiny, grabbed my clicker and sat on a chair. Down, click, treat, repeat. Then I stood. Down, click, treat, repeat. Heel, down, click, jackpot, fox tug, repeat. Now, to add a context, I practiced heeling, then moving down. After a bunch of repetitions, I added rally signs like double about left turn, heel, then a moving down. We added back up three steps, heel, moving down, by the end of our training session. It was a lot of fun.


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## lily cd re

Well done! That is a hard sign even for many very experienced rally dogs. Lily has always liked it and done it smartly since I often play funny heeling games where I am always moving but I tell her to stand sit or down in place then I call her to me to help her find heel position. I know a RACh dog though who has never had a good moving down and actually often IPs it. I am not sure why he doesn't like to do it, but he sure doesn't like to do it.


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## Skylar

Click, I love how you tackle problems by looking at it from Noelle’s point of view then you break it down and end by connecting.


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## Click-N-Treat

Sometimes it helps to try and find the weak link in a behavior chain. Noelle told me where the weak link was by sitting at heel when I asked for a down. Well, duh, we've practiced sit at heel nine gazillion times. Chances are when I pause, and say something, it's going to be sit, so when "blah!" came out of my mouth, Noelle guessed I said, "sit." Nope. Interesting that you know a dog that always IPs that sign. I can see how that could happen. I know a poodle that always IPs pivot signs. Dog won't pivot. 

Noelle loves pivots, spinning, twisting, serpentines, figure 8's, circle right, circle left. My trainer said that Noelle likes any kind of body motion signs, and she's right. Today we were screwing around and I tossed in spins and twists during our heeling. Noelle thought that was great fun. Down isn't fun. She does it. It's just not fun.

Noelle's moving stand is rock solid, though. Mostly through service dog work, not anything I specifically trained. When we get in a tight crowded area, I say, "Wait." And Noelle turns into a statue. She does a stand/stay in line in the store, too. Moving stand/stay makes sense to Noelle. Moving down, not so much. But, today we made good progress. 

The position change at a distance signs (Stand – Leave – Sit – Call Front – Finish – Sit/Stand – Leave – Down – Call Front – Finish – Sit) Noelle enjoys. I don't like them because it's way too much reading. I've gotten good at reading rally hieroglyphics so having a list of words is confusing. 

I wonder if some judge is going to put Stand While Heeling – Call to Finish – Sit followed by Stand – Leave – Sit – Call Front – Finish – Sit. If I saw that in a trial, I would probably start crying. I swear rally is harder on me than Noelle.


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## Click-N-Treat

Since I discovered a squeaky fox toy is a high value reward, I've had it in my pocket while we train. We trial in a month, and I can't bring Mr. Fox with me in my pocket. So, I did some thinking and more thinking. How can I transition Noelle away from Mr. Fox is in my pocket? I went to Target and bought a reusable lunch bag. I put Mr. Fox in the lunch bag and the thermos with the really good treats in there, too. 

Since I was working on a new behavior called, Mr. Fox Is In His Fox Hole And Will Play With You Later, I started with sit. We did about 15 repetitions of Sit, fox comes out of his fox hole, tug, bye Mr. Fox, sit. Then I asked for a down and a sit. Same game. I kept it very basic for the first two days. Mr. Fox is in his hole, work, and he'll come back. Now, instead of having Mr. Fox in my pocket being the cue to work, the bag itself is a cue to work. I don't even have to open it. Noelle sees the bag, and lines up to work. 

I've also alternated between a treat from the treat Thermos, and Mr. Fox escaping the bag. So, when we go to the bag after doing work, it's very exciting for Noelle. What did you win? Let's see! 

We trial in a month. I am always going to have Mr. Fox in my pocket during rally practice because I want her to rehearse going into the ring with excitement and joy. She needs to practice focus and attention again, and again, and again, until it becomes her default setting. 99% of of the time, it's OK for Mr. Fox to go with me in to the ring. It's just that 1% of the time, he has to hide in his fox hole. 

We can make it all the way through a rally run, without stopping to play tug at all. She prances and dances her way through rally. Tomorrow, I'll bring my magical lunch bag to class, and show her that I put Mr. Fox in his Fox hole. But, I'll surprise her with a second fox in the middle of our run. I want Noelle to always think tug might happen at any time during a rally run, so she'd better be paying attention. 99% of the time, she'd be right. It could be right after the start sign. It could be after sign 8. It could be after Finish. It could be outside of the ring afterward. 

Still, I know we've made a massive breakthrough because Noelle doesn't sniff the ring at all anymore. I never thought that would happen. Onward, Miss Noelle. Onward and upward!


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## Skylar

So clever and I love the name of the game. It’s important to keep them guessing otherwise you could be training a dog that wants to run out of the ring before the end to get to their reward. 

For the actual trial make certain Mr Fox is 100% silent. No one wants to be in a ring trialing with a dog playing with a squeaky toy in the crating area. Outside of the building well away from the building is okay.


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## Mufar42

Click You and Noelle have done wonders. It is so good to hear how you find another cue for her when needed and how you break from it too. I am very impressed. How old is Noelle now?


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## lily cd re

I think we may have talked about this, but you can also play the fox game for ring entrances and exits. Enter with heads up and staying connected and then play for that. Leave with heads up and staying connected and then play for that. A month may sound ominously close in some ways but if you use that time well you will nail it. You've got this.


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## Click-N-Treat

Don’t worry about Mr. Fox squeaking. I punctured his squeakers with a screwdriver. They make a soft clicking sound now. 

I think I need a high level reinforcement to keep Noelle’s motivation strong. She hasn’t stopped to sniff the ring since Mr. Fox started coming to Rally.

Oh, and Noelle is three. She turns four on Halloween.


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## Click-N-Treat

Tonight at practice, the beginner puppy ring was to the right of our rally ring. Somehow, one of the puppies tangled his leash around a man's legs. He fell hard, and crashed over into the rally ring, knocking all the gates down. The man wasn't hurt, thankfully. It just made a lot of noise and was scary. Noelle was in her crate. I got her out and fed her chicken and played with Mr. Fox for a bit. I wanted her to remember this is a safe place. She wasn't phased by it, thank goodness. I hope the man really was OK and his pride wasn't talking. That was a nasty fall.

Despite the accident, Noelle's rally runs were pretty good. There were 17 signs and more master signs than regulations would allow. We confronted a few signs we'd never seen before. Noelle got distracted a few times because I lost the flow, but stayed with me really well and didn't wander off and sniff the floor. 

I forgot to reward Noelle with Mr. Fox in the ring, but I did have chicken with me. Ever since I brought Mr. Fox into the ring, Noelle's focus has skyrocketed. She just seems to suddenly understand that the ring is a special place where fun things happen. 

I have another rally class on Thursday. I'll reward Noelle with tug after sign 10 during our first run, and sign seven during our second run. Surprise! Here's Mr. Fox! I think if I start rewarding with play regularly during the later parts of our run-throughs, Noelle is less likely to check out on me. And if I decide ahead of time to randomly select a sign where play starts, that will make going into the ring even more exciting. 99% of the time we are not trialling, so 99% of the time, I can make being in the ring the best part of Noelle's week. The more experiences she has that being in the ring is fun, the better her attention and focus will become. Run-throughs are really helpful for that.

Oh, and one other thing. My friend during class could not figure out how to do the master 360 degree sign where the dog makes a complete circle right and you make a complete circle left together. She was totally puzzled. So, I pretended I was her dog and circled around her, while she turned the opposite direction. I barked a few times because I was being a dog. It was hilarious. She got it right on her run-throughs after that. However, Noelle and I screwed it up every time. Doh!


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## Carolinek

I’ve really enjoyed reading about your strategies for Noelle. Mr. Fox sounds like a brilliant idea to keep an active poodle mind in the game, and I appreciated how you described introducing it at just the right time to keep her focus.

You stories with Noelle remind me of my journey with Lily in agility, where I am always adjusting and thinking of the one thing that will work for her in that moment. Lily needs training to be stimulating, with variable experiences, and some silliness and quirkiness...Training that mirrors her personality in other words! Otherwise, she just checks out. 

Misty on the other hand, is much steadier, with reliable reactions, and will do drills without getting bored. Consequently, Misty masters technical elements much quicker. 

Even though they are different venues, agility and rally...the thought process and deliberation behind the scenes sounds similar, as is adjusting it for the dog’s 
personality. There is probably only one thing I know for sure, this whole process (and Lily’s quirkiness in particular) keeps me very humble!


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## lily cd re

If you think about the elements involved, rally is really sort of a hybrid of obedience and agility, so training for all of those activities will have overlaps. The most important common element is focused attention. In obedience we look for heads up heeling as the outward sign of the attention. In agility we look instead for handler awareness and obstacle focus. Either way though focus is the key.


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## Carolinek

Yes, I can see where there would be parallels between agility, rally, and obedience, and transference of certain skills. I guess you can never go wrong with developing that focused attention. I think that can compensate for some handling mishaps, if your dog is really in tune with you they adjust. 

Like if I start heading the wrong way in a course and then correct, I may lose time. But if the dog is focused and corrects with me, and we’re not close enough to the another obstacle to get an off course, it works out. Not optimal, but the focus saves it.


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## Click-N-Treat

When I'm training, I like to think of all the things that could go wrong and train how to save the performance. I've already taught Noelle how to retrieve a dumbbell that's standing on end, or halfway under a gate.

Would you be able to train an, oops, wrong way agility game? Deliberately get off course, and practice getting back on course as a fun game?


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## Click-N-Treat

So, Noelle is more excited by rally since Mr. Fox came to play. However, she is now so amped up by Mr. Fox that he can't come in the ring anymore. Noelle jumps up and goes nuts. It's time for ME to become the toy in the rally ring. Last run-through I didn't bring treats or Mr. Fox. I just brought my upbeat silly self and played us through the course. Noelle did really well. No ring sniffing, not wandering off. Silly works for Noelle. Noelle will do anything if there is fun involved. So, on the Rally signs, I tell her, "ooh, it's your favorite! Let's go!" And she does the sign with energy and tail wagging fun.

We worked on back up 3 steps. If I walk straight, Noelle walks straight. Can I walk backwards straight? Nope. I must practice walking in reverse more. We worked on Moving Down, starting with Noelle in front and then at my side. I assumed that sign was an automatic IP, but no, she's getting the hang of it. Rally is Noelle's thing, that's for sure. We both have fun together in the ring. 

During my obedience class, we were working on recalls from different angles. I wondered what would happen if Noelle was behind a barrier doing a stay, and I called her in for a front when she couldn't even see where I was. Noelle came shooting out from behind the barrier like a rocket and planted herself in front. It was adorable! Noelle knows where front is, no doubt about that. 

Onward!


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## lily cd re

I set a Master course today after my regular classes ended and had two people (plus me and Lily) run it by turns. They are both in advanced right now, so for a couple of master signs they substituted signs their dogs know, but they both also tried the master signs they haven't taught yet. I have coached both of them since they were in novice (and both of them did optional intermediate). We had tons of fun. My friend who just had her fourth knee replacement last month (yes your read that correctly, her first two devices failed) came back for the first time. You and she would really like each other and how you train and practice. She is a very cheerful rally runner.


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## Click-N-Treat

Today we worked on Go Cone signs. Noelle is still a bit shaky on those, but making progress. I wanted to cement the idea that Cone means the pointy hat thing, so I put a treat on the cone and then took Noelle around the corner and out sight of the cone. Go Cone! She rocketed to the cone and her treat. Also, GO is only used in connection with Cone. I don't like having the same term for more than one behavior. Should we eventually end up in Utility, I will use something else for go outs. I like that Rally gives our dogs little tastes of Open and Utility exercises like go outs and signals.

In Excellent Rally, we have a Stand and a down at a distance, and a Stand/Sit at a distance. Sure, the distance is only six feet or so, but the obedience concept is baked in there. Today Noelle and I practiced the Open command discrimination exercise. Since we would show in Open A, the order is Stand, leave, down, walk further, sit, return to the dog. We practiced that and Noelle loved it. If Noelle can do the Open signal exercises fluidly, rally will be easy.

Noelle's call front has improved since I changed the cue to, "Yay, Front." I say it in a happy chirp, because I am trying to convince Noelle that swinging around in front is fun. I think that worked. Fun is required for Noelle to shine. I just need to remember that during a trial!


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## MaizieFrosty

Click-N-Treat said:


> Fun is required for Noelle to shine. I just need to remember that during a trial!


Fun is required for every dog to shine, imho  Sounds like you and Noelle have made incredible progress, keeping that in mind. Keep it up!


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## Carolinek

Click-N-Treat said:


> When I'm training, I like to think of all the things that could go wrong and train how to save the performance. I've already taught Noelle how to retrieve a dumbbell that's standing on end, or halfway under a gate.
> 
> Would you be able to train an, oops, wrong way agility game? Deliberately get off course, and practice getting back on course as a fun game?


That is an interesting perspective, and doing it deliberately and correcting it in practice may help manage the anxiety when it happens in competition. I’ll have to ask my trainer about that!

And I hear you about it needing to be fun, Lily is the same way. You do nice work with her!


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## reraven123

Click-N-Treat said:


> Would you be able to train an, oops, wrong way agility game? Deliberately get off course, and practice getting back on course as a fun game?


That would be training for me rather than for my dog. When I was showing my Giant Schnauzer and found him heading for the wrong obstacle (because my faulty handling had sent him there) I would call him off that obstacle and over to the correct one. He was a very sensitive dog who hated to make mistakes, and of course he took that to mean he had gone the wrong way and it was his fault. It happened enough so that it took all the fun out of agility for him, because he thought he couldn't get it right. At the time I was quite inexperienced, and didn't realize what was happening, but now I see that I should have found a way number one, to improve my skills and stop sending him the wrong way, and number two to make a call off a fun thing rather than something that crushed my dog's joy in doing agility.

Lesson learned.

This is a much younger me with my guy Nick.


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## Click-N-Treat

Just as we practice front separately from finish, to prevent an automatic finish in obedience, the off course game needs to be completely separate from a full course run. And the off course game needs to be great fun.

Never connect the two games in practice, but during a trial that game could save the performance. 

I am the kind of person who hates surprises. I freeze and then struggle to get my thinking moving. Planning ahead is natural to me. Talk to your trainer about how to save an agility run that’s about to go pear shaped, then practice that. I don’t do agility so I am no help at all, but I can see how useful that skill would be.


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## Click-N-Treat

OMG! Beautiful dog! 

I can see how a sensitive dog would take your mistake personally. Most of my training is for me. If the rally run goes badly, guess who messed up. Hint, it’s not Noelle.


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## Click-N-Treat

Well, we did it! Tonight's rally Master run Noelle went the entire course without me having Mr. Fox, or a treat in the ring. The only thing the trainers told me was not to hesitate at the signs, and to be more fluid, but other than that, Noelle shined. I was really proud of her focus and attention. All that work with Mr. Fox in my pocket helped her connect the dots. Her right pivot and left pivot got cheers from the trainer, too. Nothing I like more than hearing Joan yell, "NICE!"

We did the straight figure eight weave twice, and the spiral in this one, so it was a challenging course. Noelle hasn't done a spiral in ages. I think the reason I hesitate is because I'm reading the signs in class. With only a brief walkthrough, and no map, I need to stop and read the signs. When I stop, Noelle loses her rhythm, so I need to work on being more fluid. Still, tonight would have been a qualifying run in Master. Since we're trialing in Excellent, I'm feeling better and better. Onward!


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> <snip>. I think the reason I hesitate is because I'm reading the signs in class. With only a brief walkthrough, and no map, I need to stop and read the signs. </snip>


It's not so practical in class, but at a trial, I always do at least 3 walk-throughs. The first one is to really look at the signs, the second is to look less at the signs and more at where they are in relation to each other, and third is to move briskly and feel the flow. If there's a sign in a weird place that I might miss, I will likely do a fourth quick walk-through for a better feel of flow.

While I'm waiting my turn, I'll pull the course map out and make sure I know the elements of each sign. I've IP'd too many RM signs for not getting them exactly right. It's embarrassing when my PUDT/RAE2 dog passes a course with a 70 or 80! Thank goodness for a few generous judges!


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## lily cd re

I also generally do 3 walk thrus at trials. The first is to learn the course and the other two are to put more of a sense of muscle memory of it into me. I do my walks as if I had a dog and take the pauses at stationary signs, give the orders, make the pace changes and such. By the time we have our trial run I know what I am doing and Lily comes along for the run knowing that I am leading her through it.


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## Click-N-Treat

I do get confused and feel like I don't know what I'm doing or where I'm going. Walk up to a sign, read it, process it, do it, move on to the next sign and repeat. The flow is limited when I do that. I'm going to bring a notebook, write down the signs during the walkthrough, make a map, and sort it out ahead of time in my mind. 

If I know what's next, and can prepare for it, my confidence will flow into Noelle.


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## lily cd re

If there aren't copies of maps for the handlers then take a picture of the posted copy (which has to be available 30 minutes (or more)) before the class. I have found that helpful.


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## Click-N-Treat

Today's rally excellent course went excellently. I didn't bring a treat, or Mr. Fox with me into the ring. We just went in and drilled it. Moving down, send to jump, 180 degree pivot left, all the signs we just drilled it. And this was one chaotic nightmare of a class. 

A bunch of new people signed up. Four of them have never done rally before. All four dogs were somewhat dog aggressive. One dog was not just dog aggressive, but also human aggressive. So, we had dogs going bananas in crates during our rally runs. Noelle filtered all that out and did her thing in the ring nonetheless. And it was beautiful.

After rally, we had obedience. Her off leash heeling was wonderful. Her on leash heeling was abominable and her figure 8 was even worse. Guess what we need to practice this week? Sometimes, dog training is like gathering up a huge pile of laundry. You get almost all of it in your arms, but some socks and a sweatshirt fall on the floor. 

I have been focusing intensely on off leash cooperation. Noelle's on leash manners have gone out the window as a result. Well, that was diagnostic. Time to get out Noelle's leash, the good treats and my clicker. I'm hoping by next week things are much better.


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## lily cd re

That is too bad about the dog and human aggression issues. If a handler is very good with setting things up to go in the ring with a mildly dog aggressive or dog reactive dog they can do okay, but a human aggressive dog or a dog that the handler can't manage shouldn't be in obedience or rally. A couple of years ago a woman who is a terrible (by her own admission handler) entered her German Shepherd dog for utility A at our club. they had done heeling and signals okay, but once they got to articles my friend put the articles out and was leaving the ring with the bag and the dog went after her growling and with curled lips and backed her up to a wall. The judge disqualified them immediately and wrote her and the dog up for the incident as a dog to human aggression and the AKC banned them. She appealed to no avail (as should have been the case). It was unfortunate because with good handling the dog actually worked nicely and I think really appreciated a competent handler. He worked very nicely for me and I think I could have easily qualified him, but his owner had no good exercise to exercise choreography. He was looking for something to do and I guess decided harassing the person with his article bag seemed like a good idea (part of why I've never encouraged Lily or Javelin to think the article bags belong to them).


In rally even more in some ways than obedience the spirit of the sport should be fun, not stressful and honestly a rally class is not the place to attempt to rehabilitate an aggressive dog. I would talk to the trainer about any dog in a rally class where there was really significant dog to dog and/or dog to human aggression. Being reactive is a bit less worrisome though.


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## Skylar

I don't look forward to the first class of a new session - you never know what will show up. I've never had 4 somewhat aggressive dogs with one people aggressive. I would have been very cautious.

What I've dreaded is highly excitable dogs showing up in obedience and rally classes. Babykins until recently could become very distractable when a highly excitable dog is new to class. After a session or two she relaxes and gets back to working properly. 

The worst was three handlers with dogs showed up to our rally class - people who needed basic obedience - sit, down etc. The person who normally gave the basic obedience class took a break so they didn't offer that class that session so people signed up for our rally and obedience concepts class. My trainer is a wonderful trainer - she worked with them while she worked our class. However the people in our class have been taking rally for awhile, we're all advanced and this put a little dent into our training. 

As for off leash heeling, I was surprised to learn in my fun proofing class, all the dogs were heeling better off leash than on leash. I liked how the trainer explained the use of the leash - something I had never heard before. In pet dogs when you walk them the leash is to keep the dog attached to you and safe. In Obedience and Rally, the leash is a training tool. You hold the leash close - if you dog is heeling out of position you immediately feel the pull on the leash - and you can immediately correct them. I've gone back to doing more on leash heeling using this concept.


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## Click-N-Treat

We leave for our trial tomorrow. Today's rally course started with a spiral dog outside and it also had a spiral dog inside later on. I got flustered at the spiral. Which way do I turn? After that, Noelle was everywhere, except where I wanted her to be. She forgot how to sit. She forgot how to pivot. We didn't complete our second rally run because Noelle's mind was blown. It was like she had never heard of Rally before. 

But, if I dig down deeper, it's my mistake at the first sign that made Noelle lose her connection. Having the first sign in our rally run be a trick I hadn't seen in a long time threw me of my game. Ever line up dominos? Exactly. Down they came.

Today I discovered it is far better if I confidently IP the first sign and have a solid clean run after that. It's not good for Noelle if I repeat the first sign. Actually, it's not good for her to have me repeat any signs. She likes to flow from sign to sign, and if we repeat, dominos start falling.

Noelle was off her game today in every way possible. During our Novice run, she didn't sit during the heeling pattern. Liz, my trainer, said that was weird because Noelle has a beautiful automatic sit. Today in practice was opposite day. If that's what happened during practice, I wonder how the weekend is going to go? My dog has no idea what rally is and forgot how to sit.

Maybe she'll remember over the weekend.


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## lily cd re

She will remember everything just so long as you act like and really show her that you've got her back. I hope your driving is safe and that your practice is great and your trials even better.


BTW for those spirals which catch a lot of people in a state of confusion I count out loud. "Okay Lily let's go around three now around two and finally one last cone."


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## Skylar

Good luck Marie at your trial this weekend. I'm sure Noelle will be wonderful - sometimes they have an off day. I do think you diagnosed the problem correctly - if you are flowing through the course confidently then Noelle will follow you confidently. If you hesitate, show confusion and lose the flow...... Noelle struggles too. 

As others above mentioned, I walk through the course at least three times - as many times as they will allow me so I'm completely comfortable with the pattern. I'm extra careful about anything tricky, wonky, weird on the course because sometimes they build a course on paper that doesn't work in the ring and at some point they can't change the course. At my rally trial last weekend they had the wrong sign - the sign was turn left, but you had to turn right. They changed the sign but didn't put the right one up - the course was supposed to have the sit then turn right - instead they just had a turn right. They then changed it at the very end of the walk through when most people had left the ring. They didn't make any announcements or explain what was done. It was now the way it was on the map we were given earlier. I'm thankful I was on the course when they made that final change so I wasn't flustered by it.

Catherine, I did hear someone counting that exercise where you call your dog front and walk back 1 step, then 2 steps and then 3 steps. I always counted in my head - but that's probably a good idea as well as counting the spirals. I do count the cones as we go - I'm so paranoid that I'll miss an exercise. I've seen the top rally people in my area miss cones - when you are working for triple Qs - missing an exercise can be an expensive mistake if it throws you way off course.


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## lily cd re

Anyone who overhears your rally conversations probably has the same conversations with their own dog, so we shouldn't care what anybody thinks about what we are doing, right?


And yes missing a sign or pointing out because you messed up on course would be a drag when trying for triple Qs. So far we are 7 for 7 on those triples and I am very happy Lily is sticking with me on that.


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## mashaphan

Double "paper clips"?? I would have cried!:afraid: Those are my LEAST favorite signs,sure to make me dizzy!

As our head trainer says "if you count out loud, the judge can't question you did the required steps!"
I do 2 walks through generally,and then stand still and visualize. (I also never walk the spiral,just visualize..ONCE through is enough for me!)

I remember our first rally course; I repeated about everything because I wanted it to be perfect. I pirouetted so many times on the 360 I got lost!:ahhhhh: Poor Che!
I too am guilty of doing all the at-home practice off lead,since I have so little space in which to work. And I am sure a lot of the signs will change by the time WildMan gets calm enough to show! May NEVER make it to obedience,as even BN has some offlead,and the minute I take him off,he beelines for his playmates! Sigh..would love to show Catherine at our upcoming shows,but can't use food in practice rings,so...and I will be working as well!

Martha et al


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## Click-N-Treat

Well, if anyone is wondering how our Rally and Obedience trials are going this weekend, today Noelle Q’d twice in Rally Excellent and twice in Obedience. 

Tomorrow we have two more entries in Rally Excellent and two more in Obedience. One more Q in each and we earn RE and CD. 

And I thought earning RA in a week was insane in February. This... look, the judge said there is no way she would take her Novice B dog in both Rally and Obedience in the same day. She was laughing. Everyone was laughing because Noelle was so tired but gave it her all and got her second obedience leg. 

How is Noelle now? Exhausted! She’s too tired to play with a brand new Mr. Fox! Tomorrow we do it all over again, but we only need one more leg in each instead of two. Can team Noelle and Click get RE and CD in one weekend? Stay tuned. I will let you know tomorrow.


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## MaizieFrosty

Holy cow, congrats Click and Noelle!!!!!


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## lily cd re

Congratulations to you both!


Clearly you have done the right training since Qing everything is what should happen. You are setting a great stage for RAE, RM, RACh and for moving into the upper levels of obedience as well. Don't rush going into open and utility. You can use rally to keep Noelle ring ready while you perfect your open and utility.


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## Mufar42

WOW! Congratulations to you both for the hard work you have put into this! It is well deserved. Your always thinking and trying new methods to find what works well for Noelle. You should be extremely proud.


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## Click-N-Treat

So, our Rally Excellent run was scheduled for 9:05. I arrived at 8:00, checked in and got my course map. At 8:40, I accidentally pulled out my insulin pump site! Without insulin I risk diabetic ketoacidosis. Medical emergency! My hotel is 20 minutes away. In tears, I told the stewards and judge what happened. The judge said I could go at the end.

I raced through Davenport, got to my hotel and raced back to the fairgrounds. 40 minutes later, the last Excellent dog was in the ring. The judge let me walk the course. One quick walk, pull Noelle out of her crate. No time for treats, no time for Mr. Fox. Ready or not, go!

We got RE with a score of 81. Whew!!
I am skipping my second Rally run and resting Noelle for afternoon Obedience. My blood glucose is 187 and too high. Ducking Fiabetes! Two more entries in Obedience to go. Can we Q? We’ll see. I gotta calm down and get ducking fiabetes under control.

And yes, I put an emergency insulin pump set in my purse. What a morning!


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## MaizieFrosty

OMG, how stressful! But yes, you got this. I'm sending super positive vibes to you and Noelle right now! And huge congrats on the RE!


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle won’t stop alerting. Too high! Falling too fast! Ducking fiabetes makes me so upset sometimes. Drinking Coke blended with Diet Coke slowly. Hopefully I stabilize soon. Poor Noelle, gotta alert and do ring stuff. Good Noelle. Faithful awesome Noelle.


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## lily cd re

Oh dear I hope your BG level has stabilized and that you have been able to chill enough to remember to breathe this afternoon. Congrats on RE even if it was hectic. Taking time to chill and skipping the second rally run sounds like you need it.


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## Click-N-Treat

RE CD


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## lily cd re

Actually I think the AKC will list that as CD RE! Congratulations. I hope your BG has leveled out and that you and Noelle have nice snuggles tonight before your drive home tomorrow.


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## MaizieFrosty

Woo hoo! This is amazing, especially given the circumstances! Hope you both get a much deserved rest!


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## Click-N-Treat

RE this morning, CD this afternoon. Gave Great Light CD RE TKI CGC. Is that Noelle’s alphabet soup?


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## lily cd re

I think her TKI will be last, but I could be wrong. The titles don't necessarily show up in the order they were earned. Lily's titles are listed CDX RM RAE9 NA NAJ TKN. Her RM is one of her more recent titles and she got NAJ before NA. She got her CGC before it was a titling thing.


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## Streetcar

Such a huge accomplishment for the two of you - it's almost unthinkable, given the circumstances! Congratulations!!!


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## MaizieFrosty

lily cd re said:


> I think her TKI will be last, but I could be wrong. The titles don't necessarily show up in the order they were earned. Lily's titles are listed CDX RM RAE9 NA NAJ TKN. Her RM is one of her more recent titles and she got NAJ before NA. She got her CGC before it was a titling thing.


Yep, Gave Great Light CD RE CGC TKI


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## Click-N-Treat

Should we add PDQ for six legs and getting CD and RE in two days? LOL!


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## lily cd re

Click-N-Treat said:


> Should we add PDQ for six legs and getting CD and RE in two days? LOL!



I think so but then again this is how things should go when the dog is really ready. Noelle has said she is really ready and soon will be asking what are we doing next. Time to get those RM signs up to snuff. Play with that while you work on your open exercises.


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle knows RM signs. Our trainers don’t separate out signs by level, so she did master signs her week of rally. What needs work is focus and attention with distraction. That will be way harder to train than a football field sized course with all the rally signs combined. 

Hang on. Could you imagine how crazy fun a football field full of rally signs would be? One huge course, all signs. Now I wanna set one up and run it. Ultimate rally!


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## Asta's Mom

Wow, Noelle is amazing! Great list of initials after her name. Go on Team Noelle.


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## Mufar42

You two are amazing! I hope your sugar has all evened out now. Safe travels home.


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## Skylar

OMG, I'm jumping up and down on my bed - I'm so excited for you. This is amazing. I don't know if people who casually read these posts understand how difficult this was for your and Noelle to pull off all in short time with such wonderful scores.......and that was before you had the Ducking Fiabetes emergency which you handled with grace.

Wow, wow, wow - I'm so proud of team Click.


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## Click-N-Treat

Thanks everyone for cheering us on. Noelle and I felt your love and care. This really was an amazing weekend, one I will never forget. Six entries, six Q’s, two new titles, in two sports, in two days. First place twice in Rally and one second place. First place twice in Obedience and one third place. 

What a ride!


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## fjm

It would be absolutely amazing for any dog/owner pairing, but adding in the DF, and Noelle dropping everything to concentrate on alerting you in the middle of everything, it goes off the scale. And it is a wonderful endorsement of your training methods, and your care to ensure Noelle is happy and fully prepared for the ring.


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> RE CD


*Fan freakin' tastic!*


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## Carolinek

How wonderful- many congratulations, ??? 

Talk about perservering through adversity, yikes, you did it, and then some! What an awesome team the two of you are. Great pics, Noelle has such a pretty face.


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## Quossum

Congrats! Amazing dog--amazing team!


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## Click-N-Treat

It means a lot to celebrate with everyone, especially those of you who are trialing. Know that I am cheering you on in every entry. May the course be with you!


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## lily cd re

Click-N-Treat said:


> It means a lot to celebrate with everyone, especially those of you who are trialing. Know that I am cheering you on in every entry. May the course be with you!



Same thoughts all around!


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle fell asleep last night cuddling her dumbbell and dreaming about Open.


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## Click-N-Treat

My husband got creative after we took apart a broken pop up gazebo. Long tent poles, pvc pipe, a few end caps, a little printing later and I have a portable Rally course. 










We had a blast today doing Rally in the yard. I will get some video soon.


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## EVpoodle

Noel looks like she is having fun doing rally.


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## mvhplank

How creative and wonderful! I love repurposing things that clearly have some life left in them.


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## lily cd re

What a great creative repurposing and taking rally on the road all in one.


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## Skylar

Very smart repurposing. No wonder Noelle is so clever, she has clever parents. Haha.


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## Click-N-Treat

Now I have my own portable rally ring and of course it is pouring rain and our yard is flooded. Soon, flood mosquitoes will make the yard unusable. Sigh. Well, it was fun while it lasted. 

I realized at my last class that Noelle doesn't like her treats anymore. Chicken or dog treats, dog treats or chicken? Bleh, says Noelle. She spits out dog treats and reluctantly ate the chicken. Tonight I knew I needed to spice things up. Before class I microwaved some liverwurst bits until they turned into the constancy of a rubber ball. On the way into the rally ring, I offered Noelle a tiny taste of liverwurst. Her eyes widened. She stared at me in shock. 

At the start line, the trainer asked, "Are you ready?"
Noelle heard the word, "ready," and spun her head toward me. Oh, I'm ready. I am sooooooo ready. Do you have any more of that wursty stuff, Mom?
I gave her a tiny sniff. Not even a piece. Just a sniff. And boom! Noelle was rally ready. She did the rally signs with focus and drive. The kind of drive I used to see only if I had Mr. Fox, I got tonight with just a sniff of liverwurst. Someone stuck a rocket in my dog. She was fired up and ready for everything.

That was fun. A piece of liverwurst the size of my little fingernail was all it took to motivate Noelle to work at 100% intensity, just like I wanted. I am saving that stuff for trials, thank you very much. Taste the liverwurst on the way into the ring. Smell my empty hand at the start line. And BOOOM!!! Send to cone and sit? I can do that. Back up three steps? I can do that, too. Stand stay, call to finish, I got it. Let's do this thing! What a funny dog Noelle is. 

Onward!


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## mashaphan

Liverwurst is doggy crack! I have used it,but found it hard to work with-never THOUGHT to microwave it!

I try to rotate training treats..liver.hotdogs,chicken nuggets (He is CRAZY for cheese balls; trainer says it is because they are easy to see. I used to be dead set against them, as I generally do not feed cheap crap,but the dogs love them. Especially good for teaching catch!)

Thanks for the liverwurst lesson!

Martha and WildMan


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## Skylar

I’m going to try microwaving some liverwurst. We have a trial next weekend and I could use some magic. I too never thought to microwave it into something less mushy. Clever Click.


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## Click-N-Treat

Yes, if you microwave liverwurst pieces some of the grease renders out and they become rubbery and don't get your hands wet. I don't like having wet sticky hands when I am training. Chicken has a bad tendency to turn into strings and I drop bits on the floor. Not so bad at home, but I feel so guilty at class. 

My trainer uses meatballs from the freezer case, chops those up into training treats. I'm going to make a bag of meatballs, chicken pieces, cheese bits, dog treats, and liverwurst bits and bring them to class next time. Bet Noelle doesn't spit out her treats.


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## Skylar

Which brand liverwurst did you buy? I know what you mean about chicken breast shredding and it is messy. I bake hamburger in the oven - that stays nicely intact and isn’t greasy. I use a rolling pin to roll it thin and a knife to score it into tiny cubes before baking until cooked. I buy the 96% fat free hamburger from Trader Joe’s. You can add spices into it for more flavor. 

I once went to a private lesson with my daughters trainer and she swears by meatballs from Costco. My dog would do anything for those tidbits unfortunately she had horrible diarrhea from them because they were so fatty. I’d be careful about not feeding too much fatty meatballs unless your dog can tolerate that.


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## Mufar42

I never thought of liverwurst...what great treat. Maybe I can make some tiny lil balls, freeze them, as its so hot here now but I bet it would be good for working on our recall. He was so good at it till he wasn't anymore so we are back to square 1.


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## lily cd re

Lily loves liverwurst however I can't abide even the smell of it. So no liverwurst for me to train with. I switch back and forth between string cheese and my chicken brownie treats (ground chicken (or whatever meat you want ground), eggs, bread crumbs parmesan cheese and garlic powder mixed to the consistency of meatloaf; spread shallow and baked until cooked through). The chicken brownies don't fall apart and you can make them tiny bits. You can hold them in your mouth without being offended and if you don't like the idea of the garlic powder just leave it out. It is easy to bake a big batch and put small amounts in the freezer.


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## Mufar42

Aah this sounds pretty easy, Renn isn't all that interested in treats but I will try it, one day he will love one of them. He is getting more focused now, so we are beginning to work a bit more on his training.


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## Click-N-Treat

If you look in your grocery store freezer case, you might be able to find turkey meatballs. Lower in fat than regular meatballs and very tasty for dogs. I used Oscar Meyer liverwurst. I've also made salmon treats the same way Catherine made her dog brownies, but Noelle started spiting those out after a while. Besides, I'm not a fan of smelling like fish. Be aware that microwaving liverwurst will make your microwave smell like liverwurst. Microwaving lemon slices in a bowl of water will fix that problem.

A bag of frozen turkey meatballs costs the same as a small bag of Zuke's Mini Naturals. Each meatball can be sliced into 12 treats, more if they are larger meatballs. It saves money and Noelle likes them, but not quite as much as liverwurst. Is Noelle the only dog that hates hot dogs?


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## lily cd re

Lily doesn't like hot dogs and I think Javelin wouldn't like them either. He is very particular about his treats. When he was young and we did a lot of social behavior training in pet stores the clerks always asked if they could give him a milk bone type treat from the little bin they have at the register. He never ate a single one of them! that was actually just fine with me. He would take them politely then deposit them on the floor. The polite taking was great, but dropping them on the floor always resulted in a sort of awkward moment.


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## Click-N-Treat

Puppy Noelle walked through the store with her mouth full of tiny milk bones and then spit them all out in my car! She has never eaten one that I know of. Politely spitting it out on the floor must have been awkward, funny now, but awkward then.


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle just did a drop on recall that knocked my socks off! We introduced the idea last week. I said come. I raised my hand. Noelle hit the floor like she was a magnet and the floor was steel. No hesitation, no worries, just kerpow, down. Front. Noelle ran front and sat.

Behold the magic of Mr. Fox! That crazy toy fox has transformed our training from ground sniffing uncertainty, to deep intense focus. Noelle wants the fox. She will do anything to get a chance to play tug. Anything. If that means running toward me and dropping on the floor at the speed of light, she's on the floor. Poof!

When I train, I want to practice working with intensity, focus, energy, joy and drive. Rehearse performing behaviors in that fired up mode over and over. Then when we get in a trial ring, she'll have rehearsed being in drive mode. 

Mr. Fox is up my sleeve is what got me through our last leg of Novice. I played that game before we went in the ring. Heel, pull Mr. Fox from my sleeve, tug, oh, he hid in my sleeve, let's go heel again, look here's Mr. Fox. Noelle assumed I had Mr. Fox in the ring during the trial. I think she figured it out halfway through, but that's ok. We got first place out of six entries and that was her best Novice run all weekend.

Training Noelle to do things is only a piece of the puzzle, I am finding out. Training her to do them with verve and excitement is the other piece, the one I was missing. Noelle checked out and sniffed the ring floor because she wasn't engaged or motivated. Add Mr. Fox and OMG she's supercharged. Last week at dog class, we played tug before we went in the ring. I pulled out some liverwurst on the way into the ring, and once again, she was ready to go. I need to practice, and practice, and practice some more being in that super focused mode. It's so gratifying to have your dog in that frame of mind. 

I have so much to learn. What I don't know about training dogs would fill the Smithsonian twice. But, I am learning. Bit by bit, little by little, I am learning to engage Noelle, and it is... awesome!


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## Asta's Mom

Click, you and Noelle are so amazing - all she has learned to do. Asta and I look up to you and am so happy you mentor us. What you DO know about training dogs would fill the Smithsonian.


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## Click-N-Treat

Aw, thanks. You inspire me, Claire. I think what you've trained Asta to do is remarkable. You should be proud of yourself, because I am proud of you.


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## mashaphan

Ok, Click,I need liverwurst help! How long did you microwave it? I cut it into small pieces, did 1 minute,then 30 more seconds,then another minute,then another 30 seconds..never got rubbery,though it did dry out a little and a few pieces got crispy,which is do-able. Luckily,I DO like liverwurst,so the smell is not an issue. Not roll-able at all :ahhhhh:

Martha


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## Click-N-Treat

You probably cooked it a bit too long for your microwave. Try 1:30 and then let it sit a bit and see if the texture changed and it's not as greasy/sticky to hang on to. My last batch came out crispy. Noelle ate it anyway.


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## Click-N-Treat

I went to the store to buy a new Mr. Fox. They were buy two get one free. So, I bought two Mr. Fox toys and one Mr. Bunny. The fox is orange and white. The bunny is gray and black. Both are flat, have two squeakers, and no stuffing. Will Noelle notice the difference? Answer, yes. And hugely. I brought a brand new Mr. Bunny with me to class and Noelle played a half hearted game of tug before our mock Rally trial. She went in the ring, got a 98 in Advanced, came out of the ring and played half-hearted tug with Mr. Bunny. 

Weird.

Tonight I got out a brand new Mr. Fox. Noelle was electrified. Noelle can tell the difference between a toy fox and a toy bunny. Mr. Fox is magical. Mr. Bunny is acceptable. 

Anyone see the movie Best in Show? Remember the scene with the Busy Bee? That's Noelle and Mr. Fox. Good to know before our next trial. Pack a brand new Mr. Fox for each day. Heck, since we're trying our first TQ, do you think bringing a new Mr. Fox for each entry would be overkill?


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## Click-N-Treat

Today's rally runs were a blast for both of us. We had an Excellent course to run and Noelle enjoyed it. Back up three steps works much better if I warn her first. Stand/wait, back, back, back. It also works better if I don't use any hand signals at all. Rally is making sense to Noelle. She doesn't sniff the ring floor, stays focused on me, and it's more and more fun every week.

We've been working on Master signs at home, so it was odd how "easy" our Advanced and Excellent courses felt this week. Back up three steps isn't nearly as tangled as back up three steps, turn to the right and back up again. That sign, well, we'll just fake it if it shows up in a trial, and move on fluidly to the next sign. Some dogs are better at it than others, it seems.

Today two dogs started barking while we were at a halt, move two steps forward, call to heel. I just left Noelle in a sit at my side and waited for the dogs to quiet down. Ever have your dog look at you and see the words, thank you? Noelle said thank you. You're welcome, Noelle. You're a good dog.


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## Click-N-Treat

Someone, and we are not going to mention who, decided to hide a Bravecto tablet in liverwurst. A grand battle ensued. Noelle did finally eat the Bravecto. Fast forward several days. I got out some liverwurst. Noelle took one sniff, high tailed it out of the kitchen, and hid under the computer desk by my daughter. Liverwurst is poison, now.

So are... Zukes Mini Naturals, meatballs, kibble, cheese, liver, cat treats...

Someone needs to be smacked upside the head very hard with a rolled up newspaper. Bad human! Bad! Bad human!

Noelle is so suspicious of treats she spits them all out and carefully checks for a pill. Then she leaves piles of treats on the floor.

Bad human! Spray water at the bad human. Shake the can of pennies at the bad human. Bad, bad, bad human!

I'm a clicker trainer. My dog won't eat treats. What am I gonna do? I'm taking a clicker trainer class so I can become a certified professional dog trainer. My dog IS my homework. If she won't eat my homework, I'm going to fail my class. Bad human! Bad! 

HELP!!!!!!! What kind of treats can I use now?


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## Skylar

Oh no, bad human. Funny how one little misstep can cause such grief. (((Hugs)))


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## Mufar42

LOL, welcome to my world..I haven't hidden pills but Renn just isn't big on treats most times. There are times in-between when he is happy to eat them. I have been buying the Instinct Rawe topper and I will use them as treats. He will gently take one and chew it . He also likes tis bits of american cheese.. I bought liverwurst but haven't had him try yet. I am finding with him keeping him on a loose lead is making progress with me staying calm. Last night a neighbor walked by with her dog, Renn got a little excited but no barking, I asked him to sit, he did, very erectly and proper, lol. The neighbor and I talked Renn decided all was good and sprawled out lying on his side next to me. I think we are making progress. Next time a little closer.


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## lily cd re

Oh dear Click that is a shame. It will come back though. Be patient. could you try using play rewards instead of food for a while?


Mufar that is great progress with Renn!


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> <snip>
> 
> HELP!!!!!!! What kind of treats can I use now?


Oh, oh dear. I would be in very sorry shape if Neely started refusing treats--he has Addison's and must take a prednisone pill every morning. Every single morning, if he wants to stay alive (not to mention healthy).

Some days he takes it off a peanut butter-loaded table knife and sometimes shoved inside a little piece of hot dog. Then he gets his breakfast.

Bridget, on the other hand, turns her nose up at the heartworm tablets that the other dogs think are dandy and ask for more. So, when that one comes around, it's down her throat with a finger, followed by a treat that she WILL take.

Have you tried explaining it to her? She's so smart that she might be open to negotiation of some sort.

M


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## fjm

Oh dear! I had a cat like that - never fooled twice, although she could eat a bowl of food leaving every scrap of a pill behind. Perhaps "A bite for me, a bite for you" would work - sharing the same piece of food may prove it is not contaminated with horrible medicines! Or perhaps the teeny tiny chicken treats I make in a silicon tray, that are simply too small to conceal anything in? Baby food or chicken puree in a tube?


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## Click-N-Treat

How do you make your tiny chicken treats? Maybe if I cooked some treats for Noelle she would forgive me. I still feel terrible.


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## lily cd re

Stop feeling terrible! If you stop feeling terrible and relax Noelle will probably relax too. Do you know my chicken (or any other ground meat) brownie recipe? 1 lb ground meat of your choice, 1 egg and sufficient bread bread crumbs and parmesan cheese (about 50/50) to make a meatloaf consistency, garlic powder if you want. Spread into a non stick sprayed pan like brownie batter and bake until the edges pull away. You can cut them super tiny if you want or make them more like a jack pot size. You can hold them in your mouth without offending yourself (as I would be if I had to hold liverwurst in my mouth).


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle ate ground beef bits happily today, so we are back on track. Whew!


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## fjm

My chicken recipe is similar, but uses one of those fat saving silicone trays with dimples as a mould. Liquidise around 200g/8oz chicken breast, one egg, 50g/2oz flour, add enough water to make it the consistency of thick cream. Spoon over the dimpled side of the tray and work into the holes with a knife or spatula. Bake for 15-20 minutes at around 160C/320F/gas mark 3 until risen and golden, then tip out into a tray and return to a low oven until very crisp and dry. Makes hundreds, at around 1kcal per treat.


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> Noelle ate ground beef bits happily today, so we are back on track. Whew!


I'm glad she still trusts your treats!

I was meditating on Noelle's pill dilemma and wondered if you tried a two-treat method I just came up with. You could train it like a trick.

The goal is to hide the pill in something tempting (at least medium-value) that she must eat to earn the high-value treat.

Put the treat on a dish you only use for this new "trick" so she must choose to eat it to get the wonderful treat, that you show to her. The pill is NEVER in the high-value treat.

Start without the pill, using medium- and high-value treats, and continue to occasionally do this "trick" with no pills.

I'll be interested to hear if this works, or whether she has your number.


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## Click-N-Treat

She would have my number in a nanosecond. I'm better off covering pills in butter and cramming them down her throat. 

Right now I am making chicken brownies. I have no doubt Noelle will gobble them up. She ate lots of ground beef bits while we worked on scent articles.


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## lily cd re

Click-N-Treat said:


> She would have my number in a nanosecond. I'm better off covering pills in butter and cramming them down her throat.
> 
> Right now I am making chicken brownies. I have no doubt Noelle will gobble them up. She ate lots of ground beef bits *while we worked on scent articles*.





How exciting! How are you teaching it?


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## Click-N-Treat

I scented my hands with a few drops of vanilla extract, waited for the vanilla to almost dry in my hands, and then rubbed one of the dumbbells pretty throughly. Then I offered Noelle a chance to sniff a paper towel with a drop of vanilla extract on it, click, treat. Repeated that a few times. 

Sniff the scented dumbbell. C/T
Sniff the dumbbell on the floor. C/T
Pick up the dumbbell. C/T
Add unscented dumbbell and... wait to see what happened next. 
Noelle nuzzled the new one, returned to the scented one, and brought it to me, C/T jackpot.

Add another dumbbell to the game. Wait for retrieve of scented dumbbell. C/T.
And another dumbbell.
Add all. 

Say nothing. Do nothing. Stand still and wait with finger on clicker trigger. Noelle snorted her way through all the dumbbells, and found the right one. CLICK and jackpot.

The concept of snorkeling through dumbbells seeking a scent is a fun game. Noelle's tail almost wagged off. Next time, to prevent boredom, I will set a timer for 1:30 seconds and see how many successful finds we can get in a minute and a half. My only criteria for a click is lifting the right dumbbell off the floor. No need for a formal retrieve, or the send, or perfect delivery to me. That can come later. We're building a puzzle and I'm only paying attention to a few edge pieces.

By scenting my hands with vanilla extract first, it gave Noelle a clue that the game was not fetch the nearest dumbbell. Instead, it's find the right dumbbell with your nose. And she's good at it! Over the next several weeks, I'll use less vanilla extract and more of my own scent. And I'll fade out the single/double/triple dumbbell practice once I know she understands the game. 

I like training one criteria at a time. Find the right one is challenging enough. I put the dumbbells in a clock pattern, moving the scented one around to different places. I couldn't fool Noelle. I tried, but she just laughed.


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## Skylar

Click-N-Treat said:


> I scented my hands with a few drops of vanilla extract, waited for the vanilla to almost dry in my hands, and then rubbed one of the dumbbells pretty throughly. Then I offered Noelle a chance to sniff a paper towel with a drop of vanilla extract on it, click, treat. Repeated that a few times.
> 
> Sniff the scented dumbbell. C/T
> Sniff the dumbbell on the floor. C/T
> Pick up the dumbbell. C/T
> Add unscented dumbbell and... wait to see what happened next.
> Noelle nuzzled the new one, returned to the scented one, and brought it to me, C/T jackpot.
> 
> Add another dumbbell to the game. Wait for retrieve of scented dumbbell. C/T.
> And another dumbbell.
> Add all.
> 
> Say nothing. Do nothing. Stand still and wait with finger on clicker trigger. Noelle snorted her way through all the dumbbells, and found the right one. CLICK and jackpot.
> 
> The concept of snorkeling through dumbbells seeking a scent is a fun game. Noelle's tail almost wagged off. Next time, to prevent boredom, I will set a timer for 1:30 seconds and see how many successful finds we can get in a minute and a half. My only criteria for a click is lifting the right dumbbell off the floor. No need for a formal retrieve, or the send, or perfect delivery to me. That can come later. We're building a puzzle and I'm only paying attention to a few edge pieces.
> 
> By scenting my hands with vanilla extract first, it gave Noelle a clue that the game was not fetch the nearest dumbbell. Instead, it's find the right dumbbell with your nose. And she's good at it! Over the next several weeks, I'll use less vanilla extract and more of my own scent. And I'll fade out the single/double/triple dumbbell practice once I know she understands the game.
> 
> I like training one criteria at a time. Find the right one is challenging enough. I put the dumbbells in a clock pattern, moving the scented one around to different places. I couldn't fool Noelle. I tried, but she just laughed.


Wow, I’m so impressed. Are you allowed to scent yourself with vanilla before entering the ring? Or are you going to switch to your hand scent at some point? I haven’t start training scent articles yet.


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## lily cd re

Nope you are only supposed to use your natural scent on articles in trials! Lots of people sort of cheat this though. They will rub stuff on their hands before they take their utility routines. The real purpose of the exercise is to find the thing that is different from the others (actually what they are looking for is hot scent. People who don't really understand how much more highly developed a dog's olfaction is than ours often tend to make the scent on the articles too hot and that is off putting to many dogs. Lily for one would not pick up an overscented article but would indicate it repeatedly and recheck the pile until she thought enough scent had dispersed to not mind picking up the correct article, not an NQ but lots of points. 



Click if I were you I would not use vanilla. You want her to find your scent. what you are doing is a variation of Janice DeMello's Around the Clock method which is fabulous for teaching the dog to be a purposeful and clear pattern based scent worker. In Janice's method the recommendation is to put squeeze cheese on the bit of the article. For Javelin he found having too much cheese to be a bit confusing so I am just putting a dot of cheese after scenting with my own natural scent.


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## Click-N-Treat

I think by the time you are in UD, your dog is used to finding your scent with so many gazillion successful repetitions, you wouldn't have to worry about increasing your scent level. Using vanilla is just a starting hint. I don't want Noelle to think the game is go out, pick me a random dumbbell, and return. I also don't want Noelle to ever worry about being wrong, so I'm setting her up to succeed 5,000 times in a row. 

Tonight I covered Noelle's hot scented dumbbell under a towel. What fun she had ripping off the towel and revealing her prize. Click! I want find the right dumbbell game to be just that, the most fun game ever. The goal is run to the pile with joy because she is confident of what the rules are, and confident she will make the right choice. I'm taking this very slowly, making very certain she's right every time, and using shaping to build Noelle into a scent article finding genius.


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## Click-N-Treat

I'm already fading the vanilla. The vanilla was to give Noelle a clue that this is a smelling game, nothing more. Now I'm using my own hands and nothing else. Noelle has been scenting "me" because she's a diabetes alert dog, so she knows what I smell like, so to speak. She enjoys this game a lot.

The clock method is so brilliant because it forces you to make sure the dumbbell isn't in the same spot over and over. And, it makes it more fun for the dog. Wait, it's not in the same spot. Where did it go? Hiding the dumbbell under a towel was fun for Noelle. She was shocked that it was hiding, and confused in a tail wagging happy way. When she found it, she lit up. Look how smart I am, Mom. I found it!


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## Click-N-Treat

I could see how a too hot scent would be off putting to a dog. You don't have to spin the dumbbell bit over and over. Just a quick swipe is all a dog needs. You're right, we really do underestimate our dogs noses.


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## reraven123

Click-N-Treat said:


> You're right, we really do underestimate our dogs noses.


When you consider that a dog knows where someone walked by three days ago, and also knows which direction they were going, I think finding the article their person touched five seconds ago is pretty simple for them. Zephyr regularly goes in my closet and pulls out the latest piece of clothing I wore and carries it over to the bed and lays on it. My scent is liberally on all of them, but he knows which one I wore last.


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## lily cd re

Oh my, reraven if Lily took my most recently worn clothing she would eat it rather than just lying on it!


The nose knows for sure.


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## reraven123

lily cd re said:


> Oh my, reraven if Lily took my most recently worn clothing she would eat it rather than just lying on it!


I do have to check for holes, he used to occasionally chew a bit. He hasn't done that for a long time, tho.


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle just did all scent articles in a clock pattern and enjoyed both the wood and leather. She zeroed in on the correct one each time, ignoring all others. Shaping, it works! Make the correct answer obvious. Teach the correct answer over and over. Introduce a false option and watch the dog light up like a candle. 

Is this trained now? No. Because we've only done this a few times in my bedroom. Moving to the living room, I expect Noelle to not have any idea what the game is. Move it outside, and the same thing will happen. We need to repeat the same game in many places. But I am still tickled at her early understanding of the game. 

Interestingly enough, this is how people are trained to recognize counterfeit money, by spending a great deal of time around real money. They know real money so intensely, so deeply, that a false one sticks out as obviously wrong. In teaching the scent articles, I want the correct response to be so obvious every other possibility sticks out as wrong. My next goal is to get my husband and daughter to scent the wrong choices. Let's see if Noelle is still just as clever, or if I've been lucky so far.


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## Click-N-Treat

My daughter scented them. Noelle still found the right ones. Noelle also enjoyed it more. Interesting!


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## fjm

I think that many - if not most - dogs find using their noses intrinsically satisfying, and the more difficult and interesting the task the more satisfying it is. Finding people is one of the few things Sophy does on request without wanting paying for it - usually the question "What's in it for me?" is in the forefront of her mind, and very clearly expressed in her eyes!


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## lily cd re

I am glad it is going well, but be careful not to go too fast. If this exercise becomes toxic it is very hard to fix. I think Noelle is finding it very natural since much of her service work is scent based.


I am finding with Javelin I am getting rid of the cheese really fast. It is down to just a tiny smear. If I put more then he gets too involved with the cheese and forgets he is supposed to pick up and bring the article. Here is what I mean by a tiny smear.


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## Click-N-Treat

I've been struggling to teach Noelle that she can jump and hold a dumbbell at the same time. She always jumped over, ran straight to the dumbbell, grabbed it, ran toward the jump, carefully set the dumbbell down, and then jumped back over. Noelle told me that jumping while carrying a dumbbell is the leading cause of alien abduction.

Tonight, at Open class, Noelle raced over the jump at warp speed, grabbed the dumbbell, and then shot back over the jump to me WITH THE DUMBBELL in her mouth!!!! I almost fainted with joy.

Very nicely done! That's exactly what I wanted! You can outrun the aliens! Good girl!


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## Click-N-Treat

I introduced scent articles a few weeks ago using a method I found on Karen Pryor's website.https://clickertraining.com/node/1121 

I put a drop of vanilla extract on my hand, rubbed my hands until the vanilla disappeared, and then scented the article for the first time. I offered Noelle a paper towel with a drop of vanilla extract on it, let her sniff, click and treat. Next I let her sniff the scented dumbbell, click and treat. I then worked with Noelle on the floor. She had a choice of one dumbbell, the right one. Next I added a second dumbbell, the wrong one. Slowly I added more wrong choices. 

Here's where we are now. 




Will we ever compete in Utility? I don't know. We're so focused on Rally for now that I have no idea if CDX and UD are in our future. I do know, Noelle really likes the "find it" game.


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## Skylar

Click-N-Treat said:


> Will we ever compete in Utility? I don't know. We're so focused on Rally for now that I have no idea if CDX and UD are in our future. I do know, Noelle really likes the "find it" game.


I know how you feel because sometimes I think along the same lines. I can barely believe what Babykins and I have achieved. I’m taking it one step at a time and just letting it happen organically. 

But you are an amazing trainer and you have an amazing bond with Noelle so I do have expectations that you will earn that utility title.


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## Click-N-Treat

I think once we have Rally Champion, I'll think about what to do next. Could Noelle get a CDX and a UD? I don't know. I don't even really have much of a plan except to keep training, keep trialing, and see what happens. One good thing about going for RACH is Noelle is getting a whole lot of trial experience. By the time we do enter for CDX, Noelle will at least understand what trials are all about. 

I'm doing what Catherine is doing and training Open and Utility exercises together as once seamless unit before we go to a trial. That way we can show in Open and Utility without having to stop and retrain. That's why I introduced scent articles before trialing in Open.

Ohhhhh, guess what, Skylar, it sounds like I am planning on competing in obedience. Gasp! Oh noes!


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## mvhplank

Hmmm... thinking about obedience, huh?

I have a copy of this and I have to confess I haven't started it yet. I was expecting something small and instead it appears to be QUITE comprehensive. 

Hannah is a real science geek, clicker trainer extraordinaire. I think you might find much of it relatable.

Awesome Obedience

Of COURSE you're training all the exercises now. Why waste time? Some of them require many repetitions to be fluent anyway. Our current challenge is the go-out. I've broken it out of the directed jumping part and work on it separately. Once he's out there, he gets the right jump (at least most of the time).

M


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## Click-N-Treat

QQQ this morning. We got a 95 in Master, 95 in Excellent and a 96 in Advanced. 18 RACH points. We did not place. Some of these people are just plain amazing at Rally. We'll get there some day. We will. Leg 6 of RAE and leg 6 of Master are finished. 

I watched a mini poodle win RACH today! WHOO HOO! And my friend got RAE with her cocker spaniel. It was a great trial and lots of fun.

Onward!


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## MaizieFrosty

Congrats, Click and Noelle! Those are super scores!


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## Skylar

Wow, wow, wow. Team Click is on a roll. Those a fabulous scores. I’m so proud of you and Noelle. And it’s wonderful to have friends who also did well to share in the celebration. 

I’m glad you able to crate inside comfortably. 

I had to enter Rally Novice in the B category because we have our BN title...... I was thrilled when we came in 6th just out of placement ribbons with very competitive crowd who have been training dogs forever. It’s tough. It’s best to focus on the titles and not placement. When you do get a placement ribbon in B it’s very special.


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## Streetcar

Congratulations, Click and Noelle ! What a team you two are!

Q if not too intrusive? I've wondered what sweet Noelle might do, if in the middle of the ring and asked to follow your cue, she needed to stop and alert you to a diabetes issue? My guess has been she would make that top priority, just I've wondered how that would play out, especially during competition. If too nosey, I apologize!!!


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## Click-N-Treat

Skylar,

Oh, i know what you mean about intimidating! The more you trial, the worse it gets. Let's get a look at the schedule for Master. Oh good, we are showing between OTCH My Dog Is Much Better Than Yours UDX2 RM3 RAE12 And OTCH What Are You Doing Here With Us UDX4 RM4 RAE11. Meanwhile, I swear Noelle's rally theme song is Yakety Sax. 






I always have this huge fear that the judge is going to blast Yakety Sax through the entire dog show and someone is going to show up with a big cane and drag us out of the ring. Nooo, no, no, no, not you guys, again. 

Does the feeling of, "What are you doing here with us?" ever go away? It's hard competing against people who have been trialing with their dogs forever. We've only been doing this since October. This was our seventh trialing weekend. In a lot of ways, I feel like a 10-year-old college freshman. Intellectually capable of doing the work, while simultaneously psychologically and socially in over my head. Because, in some ways, I am in over my head. I lack experience and I know it, but we're gaining it trial by trial. 

Our last two shows were the first time I could tell that Noelle put the puzzle together in her head. We are here in a new place to do rally. All the other times, Noelle clearly had a limited picture of what was going on. She stopped to sniff the ring, wandered off course, and wasn't sure of what was happening. Now, Noelle gets the pattern, go to a new place and do rally together. The more we trial, the more she will cement the pattern in her mind. 

I think the only way to get past the intimidation is to put yourself into a bubble, like Catherine says. Put yourself in a bubble where only you and your dog exist. Then go in the ring together with a tiny, tiny, goal, like one square sit. Make that goal happen, collect your beautiful flat green ribbon and go... onward!


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## Click-N-Treat

Not too nosy at all! If my blood sugar was out of control, Noelle would alert in the ring. Priority 1 Override. This is called, "intelligent disobedience." Mom said, down/stay. Blood glucose is low, break down stay and alert. Nothing in my life or in Noelle's life, is more important. This is why I always check my number constantly before a trial and why I try to make sure to maintain my number between 120 and 180 before I go in the ring.

At my trial in Davenport, Iowa, Noelle was alerting because I was on a crazy blood glucose rollercoaster. I asked the judge and stewards to pull my entry in Rally so I could fix it. Ducking fiabetes is a pain in the @$$!


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## Streetcar

I find it hard to imagine anything more beautiful, Click. Typed with tears in my eyes. Your beautiful Noelle is not just so smart; she is so generous, and and so wise .


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## Click-N-Treat

The truth is much less mysterious, or heartfelt. Noelle believes that if she smells low glucose scent, the best food on earth will appear. This is not a loving act on her end, but a conditioned response. I paired the scent with extremely high value rewards. In dog economy, warm pot roast with gravy and carrots=$100,000,000

If the reward for finding a missing watch in your yard was $100,000,000 you would be higly motivated to find it! Snow, heat, rain, wouldn’t matter. Meals would not matter. Sleep would not matter. Priority One Override. Same thing with Noelle, only she actually got the reward over and over. The scent has been rewarded enough times that Noelle knows that smell is extremely valuable. 

Intelligent disobedience is how guide dogs disobey the order to cross a street when a car is coming. It too is trained. I trained Noelle to break a down/stay under a cafe table by offering low scent and rewarding her response, even though I told her to down/stay. This smell is important. Notice it and be rewarded. Priority One Overide looks loving, until you watch Noelle lead me to the kitchen after an alert.


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## lily cd re

Click, those are nice scores! It is especially nice to get Master points, isn't it? 



As to who you show with I don't let anyone make me feel unworthy to be in the same ring with them. Rather actually you can learn lots from watching them and they are usually the nicest people because they have king and loving relationships with their dogs. I have followed Bob Fullum and Zorro into rally rings (they were the very first team to earn RACh and under the old point schedule to boot). He is a sweetheart! This past weekend one of the teams showing in rally finished third in the champion class at this year's rally nationals. I had a really nice talk with Lisa when we were waiting for our cheeseburgers to cook on Saturday. Lily and I got nothing lower than a 98 yesterday and were far from placing in any of our classes, no big deal!


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## Click-N-Treat

There's a confidence that comes from experience. I don't have enough experience, so I do feel intimidated by people who have been trialing for years. To be honest, Catherine, you and Lily would intimidate me!!!!

However, I do know the more Noelle and I trial, the more confidence we will both gain. And the really great competitors are often some of the nicest people. Noelle and I scored well this weekend and that boosted my confidence. We even scored better than someone with a RACH in Excellent. Gave me a quiet grin.

Noelle and I have to re-train back up three steps with a new cue. I stepped on her once during rally class and now Noelle is afraid to heel backward. Sorry Noelle, I am a clumsy oaf. I did some thinking about it. I have a re-training plan. We'll start completely over and I'll c/t moving backward to touch a rubber bathmat with her rear feet from the front. Then I'll place that target one step behind me in heel position. I'll use my iPhone camera so I can watch her heel backward, and click the second her feet hit the target behind me. Move it back two steps. Move it back, and back, 10 steps until she can heel straight backward without me moving. 

Then, and only then, will I join her in moving backward. One step back to the target with me, c/t. Two steps back toward the target, c/t. Three steps back, c/t. Four, five, six. Then sometimes we'll stop short of the target, but I'll jackpot her. I'll rename the back up behavior something ridiculous like, Beep, Beep, Beep. 

By changing the behavior name, and turning it into a game, I'll hopefully make backing up in heel position more fun for her. And by holding still, she will be able to gain muscle memory without fear of me stepping on her. I want that sign to become Noelle's favorite instead of something that makes her nervous. Can we do it? I'll let you know.


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## lily cd re

Aww you are being very sweet to think we would intimidate you to show with. We really aren't. If you look at my thread on Lily on the Way to a RACh you will see how humbled we were this weekend, and all at the hands (or voice rather) of my own sweet young man Javelin in his crate. 

Renaming that will help tons, and there is no such thing as silly. A spoo handler I know who is a rally judge uses beep beep beep like a truck back up as her order for that exercise!

A person in my novice class recently asked me what the official commands in AKC for orders like sit, down etc are. I replied sit, banana, apple orange, down. In other words anything you want so long as you teach the behavior then couple it to the word(s) you want to use. I used to see a guy in utility whose orders for directed jumping were "that one" and "the other one."


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## Click-N-Treat

I love using fun cues in Rally. Our cue for call front, move two side steps right is, "Electric Slide!" Our cue for two side steps left is... "Do The Hustle!" Pivots are, "Swing it!" 

For Utility, I think I'd name the three gloves, Left, Glove. Center, Mitten. Right, Gauntlet. That way there would never be any confusion on which one I wanted her to retrieve because they all have different names right from the start. 

Naming the jumps is a good idea too. Fly and Over. 

That's assuming we do Open and Utility. The jury is still out because I like rally so much. Let's get RACH, then I'll make up my mind. For now, Rally is enough of a challenge.


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## Click-N-Treat

I love using fun cues in Rally. Our cue for call front, move two side steps right is, "Electric Slide!" Our cue for two side steps left is... "Do The Hustle!" Pivots are, "Swing it!" 

For Utility, I think I'd name the three gloves, Left, Glove. Center, Mitten. Right, Gauntlet. That way there would never be any confusion on which one I wanted her to retrieve because they all have different names right from the start. 

Naming the jumps is a good idea too. Fly and Over. 

That's assuming we do Open and Utility. The jury is still out because I like rally so much. Let's get RACH, then I'll make up my mind. For now, Rally is enough of a challenge.


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> I love using fun cues in Rally. Our cue for call front, move two side steps right is, "Electric Slide!" Our cue for two side steps left is... "Do The Hustle!" Pivots are, "Swing it!"
> 
> For Utility, I think I'd name the three gloves, Left, Glove. Center, Mitten. Right, Gauntlet. That way there would never be any confusion on which one I wanted her to retrieve because they all have different names right from the start.
> 
> Naming the jumps is a good idea too. Fly and Over.
> 
> That's assuming we do Open and Utility. The jury is still out because I like rally so much. Let's get RACH, then I'll make up my mind. For now, Rally is enough of a challenge.


Neat! I love seeing such fun in the ring. Don't forget you need a go-out command. I've heard "fly," "charge," "touch," and more. Mine is "far."

I've also named the utility gloves, though not very creatively. (They're "One," "Two," and "Three.") I think it's more clear to the dog which one you mean, just in case your pivot and mark are a little ambiguous.

I haven't named the jumps, though I've seen a lot of people do that. I just point and say "Over." Sometimes I just point. It's useful to have that if the venue is very loud or you lose your voice (as I did last year).

That naming the gloves thing has backfired on me, I think. In UKC, the gloves are done twice, but they're laid out like a baseball diamond and you're the batter. For the first glove exercise, where you send the dog directly from your side, Glove One is on the left, about the middle of the side of the ring (where third base would be, but don't overthink it!), and about as far away as an AKC glove. Glove Three is similarly placed on the right side of the ring. Glove Two is way back where the AKC Glove Two would be, so twice as far from you and the dog.

So far, so good, One is still on the left, Three is still on the right, Two is where it always is.

In the second glove exercise, you send the dog to the middle of the ring (the pitcher's mound) and command him to sit (it's an NQ if he sits before the command). Why? It's based on field work. Once he turns around, to HIS right is Glove One, which I suspect he thinks is Glove Three. On his left is Glove Three, at least in my mind. I have pointed at Glove Three, hollered "Three!" and he says, "yeah, boss, I got it," and runs and grabs Glove One. Now I just say "Take it," with my signal. That's working better.

Where's Glove Two now? Behind him. That's a whole new concept to train. Lots of folks start fairly close, ball up the glove, and throw it behind the dog. That gesture then forms the basis of the "go back to Two" signal.

You'll have to start a new thread whenever you get into obedience.  I'm looking forward to seeing it.


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## lily cd re

I call go out fly away. The bar jump is is "bar" and the high jump is "over." I haven't so much named the gloves as the way we are getting to them. One is heel, two is around and three is back since I do a pivot that the dog has to back up for.


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## Click-N-Treat

Well, I screwed up but I think it's for the better. I forgot to sign up for the rally class with Liz and the class is full for the next six weeks. Instead of taking rally with Liz, we're in her fun obedience class. There are four students in this class at all levels of obedience from Beginner Novice to Utility. I think two of us are getting ready for Open and two are working on BN.

The main thing Noelle needs to work on is ignoring distractions and attention, which we will be focusing on in this class. Noelle knows rally signs, and I have two other rally run throughs each week. At this point, walking through a maze of signs isn't the only practice we need. What we need most is the ability to connect despite distractions. 

Liz has a toy sock monkey. It's adorable. She had it in the ring while we were working in our last Rally class. Noelle completely ignored the sock monkey. I didn't even realize it was there. Noelle and I were in the zone together and we had a fabulous time. Sounds good, right? Um, not so much. 

Liz turned a switch on her toy sock monkey. The toy started rolling on the floor and laughing. Noelle lost her mind. All of her focus was on that toy. I had her out of range so she couldn't get it, but I didn't get even a flicker of eye contact. I ceased to exist. We were way too close to the distraction, but I was reminded some distractions are beyond us right now. On a scale of 1 to 10, that was a 10.

During Fun Obedience, Liz will put the sock monkey on one side of the ring while I work with Noelle on the opposite side. Click and treat a flicker of eye contact and build up from there. Noelle will get major distraction training in this class, and that's huge. 

Onward!


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## Skylar

I think you were lucky to get into this fun obedience class where you can work on proofing. That sock monkey sounds like a serious distraction haha.


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## Click-N-Treat

That sock monkey is insanely distracting. I'm sure Liz has more, um, surprises in mind for us. The next few weeks should be interesting.


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## Click-N-Treat

Turns out Liz didn't even need her laughing sock money to blow Noelle's mind today. There was a loud dog bickering session in the hallway right after we got into the ring. A toy dog was exiting his crate just as a young doberman was walking by. The little dog went for the doberman and scared him. Lots of loud hysterical barking followed. Everyone arrived super stressed out. 

I took Noelle to jump with the dumbbell. She went around the jump to get the dumbbell, and then discovered it was too distracting outside of the ring. She sniffed the floor like a maniac, something she hasn't done in months. That's pure overload on Noelle's end. We left the area and worked on retrieve on the flat somewhere else. I'll practice retrieve over a jump in my training ring o'baby gates once it gets cool out. Noelle isn't entered in any obedience trials yet, so I have plenty of time to work on this. 

Noelle has a habit of running to any thrown dumbbell, hers or not. I am going to have to separate Noelle so she never gets in trouble for chasing a dumbbell. Calling her off a dumbbell could backfire easily.

On a positive note, I took Noelle's scent articles to class and she got the right ones every time. New floor, new area, and she still got them. I'm going to start taking scent articles to all of my rally trials. She can practice them at my feet before we go in the ring. I want her to get used to the idea that the game is the same, no matter how interesting the floor smells. 

She really enjoys scent articles. I hid the hot one on a shelf above the pile at home. Boy did she enjoy the hunt! I think scent articles will be Noelle's best activity in Utility. Assuming I can teach her to fetch a dumbbell over a jump and qualify in Open. I think we'll work on retrieve on the flat more. I want that solid before I add a jump. Onward.


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## Skylar

It’s good to have those distractions at the level Noelle is. Better to work through them in class than to be in the ring and be shocked by a noisy kerfuffle or worse. And thank goodness Noelle wasn’t in the hallway to witness it. Good that you were smart enough to recognize her anxiety and lower demands on her to help her over the stress. 

In our open class several people have brought their grandchildren and there’s the lunchtime crowd who meet in our building to leave their dogs. They wait to see if anyone from our class want to join them for lunch. So there’s lots of gossip going on, kids playing computer games, kids coming into the ring at times to help out or be ring distractions. There’s always something going on. They don’t allow this to happen at the beginning Obedience classes. I like that this is going on so Babykins has gotten used to a certain level of chaos outside the ring similar to being at a competition. I’ve also been practicing her go outs to a stanchion next to where people are sitting and while others in my class are throwing dumbbells. As you know it’s a work in progress but as long as the dogs can recover from the distractions and work their way through to ignoring them, I think it’s a good thing. 

I hope your trainer didn’t add any additional distraction when the dogs were still unsettled.


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## Click-N-Treat

Liz didn't add much distraction to class today. She did set down her lunch container on the floor during the stand/stay. Noelle broke her stay. We tried a moving stand for exam and Noelle DID NOT like this. It's not the same pattern as the Novice stand for exam. We didn't start in a sit. I didn't move 3 feet away. Noelle didn't expect Liz to pet her. And Noelle was like, I'm not sure what the rules are right now. Do I say hi to Liz? Is this a stay? What's happening! 

Noelle was a bit of a nervous nelly today and that's OK. We'll work through it all. Like I said, there's plenty of time. My normal training club opens back up on Monday after summer break. If it's to too hot, maybe we'll go to early training and work on retrieve over a stick on the floor. Can she retrieve over a stick? Maybe she can retrieve over a stick that's one level higher. Inch it up week by week until she's jumping her full height. 

If I am patient and kind, compassionate and creative, I can train Noelle both Open and Utility exercises one step at a time.


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## Click-N-Treat

Leg 7 RM and leg 7 RAE today. 89 in Master, 93 in Excellent. 93 in Advanced. Unfortunately, we entered the second trial today and Noelle kinda lost her mind and tried to leave the ring during Master. I pulled her other two entries. Clearly Noelle was done for the day. 

I learned a lot, though.

#1. One TQ a day is plenty.
#2. If a dog is foaming at the mouth in the ring, do NOT bring Noelle to the ring gate as the dog is exiting. A dog that looks rabid is scary to her.
#3. If the judge is following super close, Noelle is going to struggle more.
#4. I need to practice rally in distracting places.

Focus and attention is very hard for Noelle. We'll keep practicing.


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## lily cd re

Good to chalk up the TQ, sorry you didn't get master points in the first trial. It is also too bad you had to lay out cash to figure that Noelle is more of a one trial per day girl. Interestingly Lily generally gets better and better as we go along, so two trials in one day are just fine for her(although that may not have been the case the day Javelin was unruly in his crate). I am going to spend time on Sunday planning the second half of our triple Q runs (with some AM/PM 2 sets in one day entries with judges I really like).


You have a great attitude of learning from everything that happens. This is how we make progress.


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## Skylar

Click I've come to the same conclusion with Babykins. 

Do you think it has something to do with maturity/age? Will it change as they get older?


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## Asta's Mom

"If I am patient and kind, compassionate and creative" (Click said) These are words that apply to all training ventures. I am certainly trying to become this kind of person when training Asta. Click and all you other folks that share training experiences - I often find gems like this one in your threads.


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## Click-N-Treat

To answer your question, Skylar, I have no idea if age will fix what's up with Noelle. I do think that training in more distracting areas is a good idea. I also think we'll stop the TQ's after RM and RAE and just focus on Master. By the time Noelle has 150 Master points, she'll have many, many, positive trial experiences. I'll also learn what works for me, and what doesn't, in a trial, too.

What doesn't work is having a growling rottie on one side of Noelle's crate, or entering the ring following a dog that is foaming profusely at the mouth. What doesn't work is being in a super tightly crowded space with rows of crates and chairs behind me. I need to figure out how to keep myself from feeling claustrophobic and anxious, too. Tiny earbud headphones would work well. That way I can listen to music and tune out all the noise. 

By only trialing in Master, Noelle will get loads of trial experiences in different places, without the added pressure of and now we're doing more rally and more rally. She will get 150 Master points eventually. Might be RM3. Might be RM7. If we keep trialing, and keep practicing, it will happen. Then we'll add the TQ's back and focus on RAE points. In the meantime, distraction work continues.


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## Click-N-Treat

Tonight there was a massive thunderstorm during rally class. Normally, Noelle and I do rally runs, I pack her up, take her home, and race back to teach puppy class. This time, there was no way to go home, Noelle was going to have to stay in her crate while I taught class. I told one of the trainers, who was sitting next to Noelle's crate, to tell her to knock it off if she started whining. Well, Noelle started singing the song of her people. He told her to knock it off. And she did! She whined a few times after that, I told her to tone it, and she... did! Noelle was absolutely silent during 95% of our class. 

I was overjoyed. That was an hour in her crate, able to watch me working with other dogs and people, and she was quiet. That was amazing! That never happened before. Now I won't have to do rally, race home, drop Noelle off, come back and teach. She can just hang out in her crate and watch from now on. I got stuck by a slow moving freight train on the way back to class once. I arrived just as class was wrapping up. I felt so bad leaving my training partner to teach the whole class by himself.

Good on you, Noelle. That's the way you do it. 

Also, I just bought a new book called _Dog Sports Skills Book 4: Focus and Engage!_ By Denise Fenzi and Deborah Jones. I'm learning a ton about why Noelle checks out during trials, and more importantly, some new skills to help Noelle focus. Onward!


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## Click-N-Treat

Working through my book on focus and engagement has been equal parts humbling and enlightening. It's kind of a good place to be when you're learning. I'm aware of massive gaps in Noelle's knowledge, and aware that we need to fill them in. I trained Noelle to do all of the Rally stuff, and SD stuff, and some Obedience stuff. But, what I accidentally trained in the process looks like this. 

Noelle is disconnected from me-->I do something interesting-->Noelle connects with me.

I work harder and harder to get her attention, and harder and harder to keep her attention. I feel exhausted and frustrated. This is not working. The book I got showed me what to do instead.

New pattern. I give Noelle 10 treats quickly-->I do nothing-->Noelle makes eye contact-->all kinds of fun interesting things happen-->I release her. Eye contact is the switch that turns me into a fun dispenser. In order to create that behavior chain, I am no longer asking for attention. The 10 free treats are just to let Noelle know good things for poodles are available if she wants them. Treats, toys, praise, laughter, and fun happen once she stares at me. 

Putting Noelle in charge of starting the fun machine has been a welcome change for both of us. Noelle is asking me to focus on her, not the other way around. I can see how working on this pattern will change our training, make rally more fun, and obedience, too. Another change I've made is acknowledging Noelle's eye contact throughout the day. If she looks at me outside of a training session, I pause and say, "Nice to see you." After a quick cuddle or a hug, I move on. Noelle offers eye contact way more often as a result.

We have a long way to go to create ring ready focus, but at least we're moving in the right direction.


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## Asta's Mom

Focus and attention are skills for the amateur and those like you who have accomplished a great deal. Thanks for bringing me back to focus and attention. Asta & I will surely benefit.


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## Skylar

I just bought this book, I have the same problem and thanks to you I just bought the book and look forward to developing a better focus.


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## lily cd re

Focused attention is the cornerstone to everything!!!!!!! I work hard at not starting to work if I don't already have attention. You can always give a bunch of freebie treats to develop the attention, but also make sure you think about how to get the dog to offer that attention when you can't have the treats. You can always have the dog do a trick it likes if you can't feed. This is why you will see lots of high level handlers having their dogs to spins or nose touches while they are in the on deck area.


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## Click-N-Treat

I really like this book because it talks about how to move from being a continuous treat and toy dispenser to getting them off of your body. It's geared toward showing your dog, and teaches how to build focus and engagement skills for the show ring. I'm enjoying it a lot. So is Noelle.


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## Click-N-Treat

Treats and toys can give us the illusion of attention and focus. Take them away and suddenly, poof, no focus at all. The big gap in my knowledge was how to use the absence of treats and toys as the cue to work. The absence of treats=check out the surroundings. Nooooo! How do I fix this? Carefully and slowly create a new pattern.

Play with Noelle-->put the toy away-->do nothing-->Noelle makes eye contact-->release and reward.

Play with Noelle-->put the toy away-->do nothing-->Noelle makes eye contact-->ask for a sit-->Noelle sits-->release and reward. 

Play with Noelle-->put the toy away-->do nothing-->Noelle makes eye contact-->ask for sit-->Noelle sits-->do nothing-->Noelle makes eye contact-->ask for a down-->Noelle lies down-->release and reward.

The absence of the toy is the cue to do work to earn the toy back. My doing nothing is the cue to stare at me expectantly. Chain behaviors in the middle. Release and reward. As we do this, Noelle's zest for work is increasing. She's focused and waiting to see what I might ask her to do, and she's vibrating with excitement, staring at me. 

I keep the pattern completely unpredictable. Noelle could be released for play and treats after just making eye contact. Or it could be after doing signals for Open. Or it could be a rally double about left turn. Or heeling. She has no idea what I am going to ask, and that's keeping her on the edge of her seat. Suspense is fun for dogs, it turns out. 

Eventually, and this is a very long eventually, I'll be able to chain many many behaviors together before release and reward. Does this make us ring ready? Nope. Can we fake our way to one last TQ for RM and RAE? Yes. 

But, if I want the kind of intensity that Noelle offers me during training in my house at a trial, we need to take this game on the road. Different places, same thing. 10 free treats-->wait for eye contact-->treat for eye contact 10 times-->leave. Repeat this in different places for several days. Then add work in the middle of the eye contact game, a single sit, or a single down, and build up from there.

Noelle is easily distracted by everything and is highly curious. In new trial locations, she needs a moment to check things out, and I need to remember to give her that time. Funny enough, she's ready to work in public places without the need to spend 20 minutes sniffing and noodling. But, not so at trials. Noelle needs a long runway before she's ready to take off. 

Judges have pointed out at trials that they adore Noelle's focus. She's so intense and right in there, and her tail is wagging like crazy during rally. But, then she gets distracted and freezes. Her focus is either 100% switched on, or 100% switched off. I've had several judges tell me to practice focus and attention. Problem was, I had no idea HOW. Now I know. We're on the path going in the right direction. And it feels great! Onward!


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## mashaphan

I have all the Fenzi books (AND "Focused Puppy" ,the Aloff book/video, the Top Dog videos.etc)=now to find the time to read or review them! 

It helps to have 2 classes/wk,I suppose,but the trainers have different methods/focuses. And Otter is OBSESSED with this little reactive terrier type in the Wednesday class who does NOT wnat to be his friend,and he CANNOT understand WHY NOT? "I am a FUN poodle,Blake!" Last week was a disaster,and I reverted to my old school (I started this 50+ yrs ago and LOTS has changed :adore Then,there are always new dogs on Sunday,so NEW friends to charm-Oy:aetsch:
Don't want to hijack the thread! Really just wanted to say, I love the books!


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## Click-N-Treat

I'm lucky that Noelle has never been interested in making friends with dogs. At STAR Puppy class, when they had play breaks, Noelle wanted to visit the trainers and ignored the other puppies. Even with her littermates, Noelle wasn't rough and tumble the day I got her. I sat and watched all the puppies banging into each other, being crazy and funny. Noelle climbed in my lap and sighed, content to be with me and watch the nuttiness. I put her down, she climbed back up in my lap. I put her down. I picked up a different puppy, and that one took off after a sibling. And Noelle got back in my lap. I chose my puppy in about five minutes because she was magnetically attracted to me. To this day, Noelle nods to dogs, is aware of dogs, doesn't mind being around dogs, is fine in crowded classes, but has no desire to say hello. 

That's her personality. It makes training classes easier! Having a highly social and dog focused dog would certainly complicate things. Otter wanting to introduce himself to that reactive terrier must be stressful. I'd probably do a lot of left circles to keep focus on me. Left, because you bonk into your dog. And leave it. A whole lot of leave it. And look at that. And... and, Otter sounds like a fun social dog, a handful, but a fun dog. Keep training! Onward!


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## Click-N-Treat

I took Noelle to rally. I used some of the new techniques I learned in my book and they helped a lot. On the way into the ring, a basset hound lunged at her. Noelle got a little scared. Instead of comforting her, I played with her. I gave her a few good shoves, which sent her flying back to me for more. Then we went in the ring. I had 100% focus and it was great. The only problem was jumping up with excitement at first. Next rally run, if she gets jumpy, I'll stop and fix that and restart. 

We did figure 8's in another class. Noelle was able to pay attention all the way around the cones off leash for the first time. We also introduced gloves. I'm at the, no, don't shake it, stage. So, a quick game of take and give is all we're doing. It's a start. I'm pleased.


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## Click-N-Treat

I took Noelle on some focus and attention adventures. I discovered the pet store is a level 4 distraction. The vet's waiting room is a level 10. She loves our vet and is always happy to be there. She gets keyed up and excited. She refused my treats and didn't settle in. So, that's off the list of places to train for now. The pet store went much better. After a few moments of noodling, she was able to focus and offer eye contact easily. We will keep taking these adventures on the road.

My other task is getting toys off my body for rally. If I have Mr. Fox in my pocket, I get 100% focus, 100% drive, 0% latency, 0% distraction. Her tail is flying. She's focused and happy, ready for anything. Remove Mr. Fox and... What's a sit? Is that my friend Callie over there?

I wonder what would happen if I put Mr. Fox in my pocket, did rally practice and rewarded with a completely different Mr. Fox by my chair? As in, Noelle never gets the Mr. Fox in my pocket. Would her excitement fade? Can I transition Mr. Fox is in my pocket to an invisible Mr. Fox is in my pocket?

More importantly, can I do this by October 3rd? We trial for Leg 10 of Rally Master and Leg 10 of RAE that day. It's at the Great Lakes Poodle Club trial, under the same judge who handed me my first Rally Novice ribbon exactly one year ago. It would mean a lot to TQ and title RM and RAE where we started.


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## mashaphan

I feel your pain w/distractions! Otter KILLED last Wednesday, and THIS week, a long absent (due to litter) classmate returned and it was all OH, A PUPPY! OH ZOEY IS BACK!, leap spin twirl and no regard for mom's presence at all.Sigh...:2in1::argh::banghead::bird::boom::dancing2:


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## Click-N-Treat

Sounds like Otter would benefit from the same eye contact game I've been playing with Noelle. I got this game from Denise Fenzi's book.

Count out 20 small treats. Give your dog 10 treats in a row for no reason at all. 
Stop. Wait for eye contact, click, reward. 
Stop. Wait for eye contact, click, reward.

Do this for the remaining 10 treats.

This is one place where a clicker made a huge difference with Noelle's understanding of the game, because I could make the clicking sound at the exact moment she reoriented her attention to me. Looking at a passing cat and, moves her head, eyes meet mine, click. After a while, the click itself becomes a happiness inducing sound, so it's like two treats for Noelle.

It's such a simple game, but it has made a big difference in the two weeks since we started playing it. That and simply making note of all the times Noelle looks at me, and letting her know I appreciated her making a connection. 

The biggest problem I've had with Noelle is this behavior chain:
Noelle is checked out-->I do something interesting to get her attention-->Noelle checks back in-->I get boring-->Noelle checks out. Repeat cycle endlessly.

I reward 10 times for no apparent reason-->I freeze-->Noelle seeks my attention-->I reward her attention-->I freeze-->Noelle seeks my attention...

By giving 10 high value treats in a row, Noelle knows rewards are available should she choose to seek my attention. I make it her responsibility to seek my attention, not my responsibility to get her attention. The change in Noelle is remarkable. 

Give it a whirl with Otter, in a neutral boring place, obviously, not class. Let me know if he likes the new game.


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## lily cd re

The best ay of training for the distractions of trial rings is to imitate as closely as possible the conditions of a trial. This means going to matches as much as possible. Practice ring entrances and exits. Practice taking the leash off before you set up and putting it back on after you hear exercise finished.


Working on distractions in many environments is important, but it doesn't always translate to the ring environment. One part of my Thursday morning class is to do heeling with ring entries and set ups, etc. included. We also do figure 8s under trial type conditions including that there are people as figure 8 posts and following as judges while Deb calls the pattern. Even with that pressure of a judge there are still some set ups and such where Javelin can lose his head.


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## Click-N-Treat

Once Noelle has assembled the pieces of Open, we'll go to fun matches. Right now we're not even close. She can heel the full heeling pattern, figure 8, broad jump, and retrieve on the flat, stand stay get your leash. She cannot retrieve over a jump, or drop on recall. Are we close, nope, we are months away. My goal is spring for fun matches and enter a trial next summer. Meanwhile, we'll keep on the RACH hunt.

Going to distracting places had more to do with learning to orient to me and focus her attention. Part 1 of the Fenzi book exercises. 10 free treats, wait for the dog to offer attention, reward attention. Noelle really likes this game. I used it in class today and she was so tuned in. I like this game because it's predictable and gets her mind thinking. Ooh, treats. I like treats. Wait, the treats stopped. How do I get more again? Oh, that's right! STARE!

The focus and engagement work we've been doing is working! I'm really pleased.


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## mashaphan

Oh,we do the Fenzi work,but will be doing more. Here's a funny "take it on the road,subtitle why we don't go anywhere" moment-we worked on the street in a nearby town,including figure 8 around the flower pots/street signs,the decided to rest in the gazebo behind the library. (it is now about 11am) There is a ramp into the gazebo, and when we got up the ramp,there was a stirring in the corner-someone was sleeping in a sleeping bag ! Fool that I am,we still sat down,green bag stirred,Otter growled a big-dog low warning,and I decided to "ease on down the road" (guess the town?:eyebrows to the town park! Oy!:ahhhhh:


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## Click-N-Treat

OMG, what were you thinking! Ease on down the road is right. Wow!

We haven't had any time for adventures lately. We'll get back to it soon. Mostly we've been working on Pocket Hand and the results have been incredible during rally runs. 

https://denisefenzi.com/2016/03/pocket-hand/

Noelle's nose is exactly the height of my hand when I just let my arms hang normally. If I glue my wrist to my leg and open my hand into a small curve, Noelle is right there in the pocket. She puts her head there, click and treat. It's been just a huge help. 

We've been doing a lot of work just spinning together on an upside down dog dish. Even though we're not walking straight, this practice is teaching Noelle where I want her to be when we heel. Not too wide, not too far back, right there in pocket hand position. I can use pocket hand in rally in a way I can't get away with in obedience, but that's OK. I can modify it by the time we are ready to show in Open. 

We had three rally runs last night. I think she keeps getting better and better. The only mistake was on my end. It was a sit, walk two steps, call to heel. I counted my steps out loud and Noelle thought I was calling her. The second time through I figured out my mistake and didn't say anything. She nailed it. 

Yesterday's course was Advanced. I'm signed up for Rally with Liz tomorrow. Oh boy. She'll set up some kind of challenge from hades for us, no doubt. I'm looking forward to it. Liz has rally class first and obedience class second, but my daughter's school schedule has me driving in heavy construction to pick her up after obedience class. I was an hour and 45 minutes late. Click Jr was not happy. By going to rally only, at least I'll be on time to get her.
We'll pick up her obedience class next semester. 

For now, I'm working on pocket hand and focus. The change in Noelle is amazing. It's her job to make me pay attention to her, not the other way around. Dare I say it, we're starting to feel like a team in the ring. Onward!


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## Click-N-Treat

One thing Noelle did extremely well at our last trial was making immediate eye contact at the start sign. We did six legs that weekend. All six legs, she looked at me without a cue. Leash comes off, stare at mom. Good, good and good. It's been a year since our first trial and wow have we come a long way as a team! 

We're officially done trialing for the year. Noelle and I both need a break. Today we went to rally and we just had fun. No pressure to perform. Nothing to get ready for. Just fun. It felt really good.


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## Click-N-Treat

At my last trial, I watched dog after dog NQ the same exercise in Open, at the exact same spot. It's during the command discrimination, the sit from 30 feet away. I decided Noelle and I needed to work on that. Open A orders are Stand, Down, Sit. The transition from a down to a sit needs to be rock solid. Today, after a lot of practice, I had Noelle in a stand. I walked 15 feet. Told her to down. Walked 15 more feet and asked for sit. And she sat!

I almost started bawling. We've been trying so hard to get this right and it paid off. First time from so far away, she did a lovely tucked sit. Sometimes, training dogs is just the best.

We've also been training drop on recall using a fun game I found on youtube. Basically, it's treat throwing left and right, left and right, like ping pong. And after a few rounds you add a down cue in the middle of the game before throwing the next treat. Run for a treat, down on cue, wait for it... run for a treat! After a few weeks playing what is now Noelle's favorite game, I decided to see what would happen if... 

What if I told Noelle to sit in heel. And what if I told her to wait. What if I walked away, turned around and called Noelle to come. And what if, in the middle of her run, I called out, "Down!" What would happen?

Without thinking, or hesitating, Noelle flung herself into a down from a full on run, just like she's done in the fun game. I called Noelle front, and she came front for her treat. We did a formal drop on recall twice, and then went right back to her favorite game. Run for a treat, down, run for a treat, down... I think Noelle would play this game all day long. With the formal version, she understood what I wanted her to do without any problem at all. I think we're going to practice drop on recall 80% silly game, 20% formal. I want her to pick up speed on her recall and then drop into a down like she was magnetized to the floor. It's fun to watch.

As far as Open is concerned, Noelle understands all the exercises. What she doesn't know is how to do them under all circumstances, any place, no matter what is happening. We're still not ready for a fun match. Heck, we've only trained this stuff in my house for the most part. My goal for 2020 is a CDX, and maybe a RACH. But, definitely a CDX. Can we do it? I'll keep you posted.


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## Click-N-Treat

Being a steward at an obedience trial over the weekend really made me want to continue this journey. I was a steward for Utility and Open, which was awesome because I've never competed in either. The judge was accommodating of two bumbling ring stewards with zero experience in Utility or Open. My job was high jump and gloves in Utility. I got into the flow after a few dogs and felt like I knew what I was doing.

This morning, I got out Noelle's dumbbell. I also got a rude awakening. Noelle was anticipating my throwing the dumbbell and released herself a few times to fly after it. I made a very foolish judgment call and decided to work on the stay part of the exercise. Throw the dumbbell, stay, then go. This turned into a disaster because when I finally released Noelle to get it, she was way too cranked up. She turned into a crazed kangaroo and wouldn't stop jumping and bouncing all over me. She went berserk. 

It took me all day to figure out what went wrong. Then I remembered how guard dogs are trained. No, you can't get the bad guy. Nope, not now, no, wait, wait, wait... GO! And the guard dog puppy explodes forward and runs to the bad guy. So, by practicing stay, while throwing the dumbbell, I was inadvertently feeding Noelle way too much drive to get the dumbbell. It overflowed and she lost her mind. Someone get me a rolled up newspaper so I can smack myself. Bad trainer! Bad!

To fix this series of mistakes, I've come up with a training plan.

1. If Noelle becomes a kangaroo, the dumbbell disappears and so do I. Calm dogs get to play fetch with the dumbbell. Kangaroos do not.
2. Separate stay while I throw, and fetch and return, into two unconnected exercises. Like how we train front and finish separately to prevent auto-finishing.
3. To practice stay, leash on, throw, stay, exercise finished, c/t.
4. To practice fetch and return, dumbbell begins stationary, fetch, front, give, finish, c/t
5. After a thousand repetitions, connect both games.

Right now, the flying dumbbell is too exciting for Noelle to handle. 

After watching the dogs compete in Open and Utility, I shake my head and wonder if we'll ever get there. But, we will. If I am patient and give Noelle room, we'll get where we need to go.


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## Carolinek

I always appreciate your training analyses Click, and often find a parallel in what I’m doing in agility with my dogs. The parallel in agility is the stay at the start line, and it’s something I have struggled with proofing.


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## Skylar

Click, Babykins is anticipating the exercises in open and utility. My very experienced trainer says that’s a good thing because she is understanding them now. We are working on varying our timing of all exercises. So for signal exercises I think of a number in my head, say 10. So I walk 10 steps then count to ten to down my dog, then walk 10 more, count to 10 and sit her. Next time I do 3 or 8 etc. I do this for all her exercises. 

For dumbbell she taught us to have the dog look back at us in heads up heel position after the throw and then give the command to take. I found that stopped our problem of runaway train immediately after a dumbbell toss. I noticed all the very experienced handlers were doing this. It was easy to teach using a treat. Do you have Click doing this? Looking at you after watch the dumbbell fly and before sending her?

I like your approach to taking the fun away. It also works for agility start lines.... you don’t hold your sit then we leave the ring and forfeit our run.


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## Click-N-Treat

Skylar,

Noelle is too cranked up by the throw to eat a treat right now. She'd probably bite one of my fingers anyway. I think what we need to do is learn, slowly, that it is possible to watch a dumbbell fly and remain calm. Then shape the eye contact piece of the puzzle. This will take a while. Her drive to get it is way too strong. Bouncing, leaping, and frolicking is not what I want. Especially since the JUDGE will hand me the dumbbell. Imagine if she went crazy and jumped at a judge? That would be beyond disastrous. This is going to take a lot of time on our end. And a lot of fun matches to make sure the training sticks.


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> <snip> Imagine if she went crazy and jumped at a judge? That would be beyond disastrous. </snip>


Yep. Or at least not so beneficial to a smooth performance. I've seen judges deliver a dumbbell on their clipboard, held high and, hopefully, out of the dog's line of sight. I've done it myself, or held it behind my back, especially if the two retrieves are separated by another exercise. 

One gets a feeling for which dogs might love the dumbbell a bit too much.


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## Skylar

Click, you are so good at identifying problems then breaking them down into the smallest part to train. 

I’ve been ring steward when people hand their dumbbells from behind their back and beg you to keep it hidden until the last moment because their dog is obsessed. I know you will work with Noelle so she will be level headed in her approach.


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## Click-N-Treat

Judge's orders are, "Throw It, Send Your Dog, Take It, Finish." It's one exercise, but in reality it's a lot of behaviors.

1. Heel to chalk mark on ring floor.
2. Set up in a close sit with calm eye contact.
3. Judge hands me the dumbbell.
4. Noelle and I stand calmly waiting for the judge's order to throw.
5. I throw the dumbbell.
6. Noelle has no reaction whatsoever to the throw. 
7. Judge tells me, "Send your dog."
8. I say, "Get it." 
9. Noelle is fired out of a missile launcher straight to the dumbbell
10. Noelle snags it, whirls around, and races back.
11. Sit in front with dumbbell.
12. Wait for judge to tell me to take it.
13. I reach to take the dumbbell.
14. Noelle calmly allows me take the dumbbell.
15. Finish and sit straight

So, it's a 15 step exercise. And honestly, the throw and the retrieve are separated by the judge's orders. I can train them independently of one another, just like I trained front and finish. To make the stay cue clear as a stoplight to Noelle, I'll change the cue from "stay" to "freeze." 

I like to change cues when I see Noelle is unsure what I mean. For me, a stay is a stay. To Noelle, a stay while I walk away is not the same as a stay when a dumbbell is flying. If a very interesting object flies in the ring, freeze means freeze your posterior to the floor. 

I'm also working on drop on recall. We'll use a target on the floor and make it smaller and smaller until we don't need it anymore. I like to make the right choice obvious. Setting things up so Noelle cannot make a mistake speeds up training. Trial and error is slower. Which sounds crazy, until you unpack it.

Say, I want to teach you to press a yellow button. I put you in a room and there is table with a yellow button in the center that says press. You press it and I hand you $10. We repeat this until you have earned $100.00. Then I add a green button. You press the green button. Nothing happens. You press the yellow button. I hand you $10. You repeat pressing the yellow button until you earn a second $100.00. Suddenly, I add a pink button. You press the pink button, nothing happens. You go back to pressing the yellow button and earn another $100.00. Next, I add an orange button, a purple button, a blue button, and a white button all at once. Now you have a lot of choices. Which button are you going to press first? Congratulations, here's $10.00.

You've been reinforced 30 times for pressing the yellow button. After that much reinforcement, you know the yellow button is the right choice and the others do not matter. That's error free learning, or as close to error free as you can possibly get. 

How much longer would it have taken you to earn $300 if I presented you with all those colors the first time? You accidentally press yellow and earn $10. Would you guess that yellow is the only color button you're supposed to press? Or would you push all the buttons and hope that one of them would work? Would you wonder if this was a puzzle and you had to hit a combination of buttons in the right sequence? How much longer would this take to figure out? Would you feel calm and confident, or confused and frustrated?

We frustrate our dogs and ourselves needlessly when we train using trial and error. Set your training up so the right choice is obvious. Yellow button your training. Yellow to be cautious, because you may have to change your plan. Yellow to warn you not to lump expectations all together. And lastly, yellow to slow down and notice that training dogs is... FUN!


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## lily cd re

Almost all open and utility exercises are really many tiny parts and have to be trained as such at some level. For the dumbbell there is the set up, not anticipating on the throw, a good hold, returning and making a nice front, giving the dumbbell politely when given the order to take it and finishing without trying to take it back....


Excellent trainers will keep the dog in a head's up attention mode until they throw at which time they let the dog watch the throw to mark where the dumbbell lands. As they like the retrieve better they will anticipate the order to get it more often. To train away anticipating most people I know either put the dog on a slip lead or a flexi and proof sending the dog with body gestures or saying get it more than once or having the judge say send your dog more than once. Over excitement in the form of wanting to control the dumbbell (not give it or trying to take it back) can be dealt with by swapping for it. I might have Javelin come to front and release him to a jump up while he still is holding the dumbbell. I'll say give and then a nice big good by just as I then give it back to him or give him a cookie (randomizing the rewards). Or I might take it and make an informal toss as I ask him if he wants to get it again as he gets it I go off in a different direction to turn it into find front with that dumbbell so it isn't part of the formal work on the complete picture of the exercise.


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## Raven's Mom

I wish too much drive was my problem. Raven looks like Eeore. She will politely go get it and bring it back to a nice front, but there is is no speed or drive. I have the same issue with recalls. Somewhere I did something to kill her enthusiasm because early on she would come flying and launch herself at me. I think it was when I started asking for mor precision she stopped seeing it as fun. I am not sure how get any of that back. I have tried the throwing treats game to try to whip up energy and it doesn’t work either. I love they way you are able to analyze everything so well. I am trying to learn! I never used a clicker but I am trying to learn with my new boy. Right now he has lots of enthusiasm and I do not want to make the same mistakes.


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## Click-N-Treat

Ah, you got serious, Raven's Mom. As soon as I get serious, Noelle tunes out. Serious training and Noelle blend together like peanut butter and sardines. Just a bad combination. 

How are you addressing recalls? Maybe I can help you figure out a training plan. Raven has a rocket booster. We just need to figure out how to ignite it, that's all.


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## Click-N-Treat

Today I brought my PVC jump in the house. It fits in the hallway exactly with no room on either side. Noelle fetched her dumbbell over the jump twice. That's all I asked for and she got it exactly right. We also played stay while I wiggled the dumbbell. I got a whole lot of flinching, but I can train her not to flinch by not letting her get it if she flinches. Flinching stops the game and the dumbbell goes away. Her retrieves were about a foot and a half today. Sit/stay-->dumbbell is wiggling on the floor-->watch without flinching-->I remove my hand-->get it!

A whole lot of progress today. I was doing a happy dance when she jumped over, got the dumbbell, jumped back over and sat in front. That was a huge leap forward in her understanding.

As always... Onward!


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## Click-N-Treat

Oh, and the jump folds so I can put it away when I'm not using it. We also did drop on recall to a target mat. Then drop on recall to a small target. And finally drop on recall to a piece of tape on the floor. Noelle loved that. So did I. I'll bring all my targets to my dog training clubs. And we'll bring my targets to drop-in training at other clubs, too. Eventually, Noelle will generalize drop on recall and I won't need a target.


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## Click-N-Treat

Turns out negative punishment (P-) is very effective with Noelle. If you jump, I will put the dumbbell away and I will leave. If you do not jump, I will play with you. I only had to do that about five times and she stopped the jumping.

To maintain a stay while I throw the dumbbell, holding on to Noelle's fuzzy topknot worked extremely well. She learned that if she doesn't want her hair pulled, she should maintain a stay. Not that I ever pulled her hair, or actually would. If she tried running, I would let go instantly. But, Noelle didn't know that, so she never ran. I also started out with a strong hold on her topknot, and then gradually loosened until I'm not touching her noggin at all. But Noelle doesn't know that, either! 

I still have the challenge that Noelle doesn't like to jump when she is holding a dumbbell in her mouth. I made the jump lower and that helped her get the idea. Her rally jump height is 12 and her obedience jump is 16. 16 seemed a little daunting to my little munchkin. She'll get there. We just need to practice. A lot.

Yesterday, I tied together the spin cue and the sit cue. Noelle did a rocket fast whirl and sit. Well, I'll name that behavior Twirl. I have yet to introduce the go out for Utility, but at least we've got the whirl and sit behavior started. One piece at a time, we'll assemble this puzzle. 

Like always, onward!


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## lily cd re

Yes, there is no reason not to use all four quadrants to your advantage as long as you are fair about it. If we never tell learners (canine, human or other species) what is wrong they will have a harder time understanding what is right in the behaviors they do.


As an FYI virtually everyone I've ever see work on directed jumping does is to teach go out first (without turn and sit) then add the turn and sit. Once you are putting go out, turn and sit, and the jumping together you are limited as to the number of orders you can give. Go out should be just the order to go, no name (i.e. "fly away" then as he arrives at the go out spot "JAVVYS SIT" gets him to turn and sit, then signal and order to the correct jump). I think you may be introducing an extra command by teaching turn and sit as twirl if it is not your plan to use that with her name later on (Noelle twirl). Using the dog's name when they are arriving at the go out cues them that they will be told the next thing to do (sit). I am not sure I am being clear on this, but food for thought. Hopefully it makes sense.


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## Click-N-Treat

Yes, it does make sense. I will be yelling, "Noelle, twirl!" because twirl means rotate yourself and sit. Plus, Noelle really, really enjoys twirl as a fun trick. I want her to look forward to the sit part of the exercise. At my last trial, I saw a lot of dogs do a fast go out, sniff the ring gate for a snack, and then wander a bit. I want to avoid that.


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## lily cd re

The dogs who hoover around looking for crumbs likely were taught to go find the cookie at the go out and not just to find go out.


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## Click-N-Treat

That is exactly what I want to avoid! I want to make sure Noelle is fluent and not just guessing what I want.


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## Click-N-Treat

We returned to the training club after two weeks off for the holidays. Noelle was glad to be there, but more distracted than usual. I got some snappy heeling that made me happy. I lost her in the corners on the about turns, though. As soon as we get to ring corners, Dog TV turns on. I think there is a switch under the mat. She steps on it, and wow, look at all that interesting stuff to watch outside the ring. Stops to watch... Oh, yes, we were heeling, runs back to catch up with me. Still, I got fast square sits on the halts and she stayed right with me during the turns and speed changes. After a two week break, I was happy with that. We'll work on paying attention during about turns next week.

On command discrimination, she hesitated on the down because she was distracted. Nailed the sit, though. The second time was more smooth. She'd warmed up to the space and was ready to work. Retrieve on the flat went well. What really made me happy was retrieve over a high jump. Well, not so high. She worked with an 8" jump. But, Noelle waited in heel while I threw the dumbbell, ran over the jump, got the dumbbell, brought it all the way back over the jump and sat. Twice! And one throw bounced to the ring gate. I think she's realizing she can jump and hold a dumbbell at the same time. We'll stay at 8 inches and slowly move up the height. 

We're on our way, though. Onward!


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## Skylar

I’ve stuck at 12” for most of the training In class the teacher had it set at 16”which is Babykins jump height. She took one look at it and ran around the jump instead of jumping. So I’m slowly raising my jump height at home so she’s comfortable with the proper jump height.
wecdod an interesting proofing for dumbbell return.... as soon as we sent the dog to retrieve, we moved side to side a few feet. It was to train our dogs to look for us when they return.


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## mvhplank

Since we enter mostly the Preferred classes in AKC, I'll practice at 16" before a trial. That's also what he jumps in CDSP. (He stands 24".) His jump height in UKC is 18", so we practice that height before a trial. If we enter a regular AKC class (Open or Utility A, at this point), we'll practice a couple of jumps at his full AKC height, but once he shows willing to jump that, I'll likely lower the height, especially if I practice an exercise like directed jumping repeatedly. In that exercise, I'm more interested in a good go-out and taking the jump he's directed to. I want to avoid repeated full-height jumping ... he'll be 8 years old in February, after all, and I don't want to strain anything. I've heard too many stories about dogs being out of work for months and months.


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## lily cd re

The only jump I routinely do at the correct distance is the broad jump since there is a different perception of the take off, landing and making the turn. Javelin is a 24" jumper so 48" for the broad jump. I usually put the high and bar jumps at 18". I have no worries about him not making a 25" jump.

I would isolate your about turns for a while and don't practice it just in corners. Abouts are the hardest turns for Javvy so I do lots of work on it in isolation and in all sorts of places in and around rings. You can also take it apart and work on your body cues showing the direction changes so that you are being really effective in your precues. Go at a slow pace and treat at different points around the turn for really good heads up attention.


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## mvhplank

lily cd re said:


> The only jump I routinely do at the correct distance is the broad jump since there is a different perception of the take off, landing and making the turn. Javelin is a 24" jumper so 48" for the broad jump. I usually put the high and bar jumps at 18". I have no worries about him not making a 25" jump. <snip>


Oddly enough, the broad jump doesn't seem to be a problem for Neely. But early in his career, he wasn't paying full attention to a recall over the high jump (a UKC Novice exercise), crashed into it and the whole jump flew apart. Thereafter, we've had to work harder at getting over that incident. He never had a broad jump "bite" him. As you say, the look is very different.

M


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## lily cd re

I have to say I've been very lucky with Javelin and these crashes and other sorts of "disasters." He pulled a flexi leash handle out of my hand, it hit the high jump then popped over it and chased Javelin to his dumb bell and got beat up by the flexi. He has also knocked over the high jump and crashed into the bar jump. All of those things are the kind of stuff that would have taken a fair amount of work to get most dogs (Lily included) to return to work at those pieces of equipment, but he has always happily returned to work with those items the same day. I am fortunate he is so resilient and trusts we so well to keep him safe.


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle is learning not to cut the corner off on her broad jump. This week she did it perfectly. I was so pleased that I completely forgot to turn. When she landed, I was in the wrong place. Whoops. We will practice about turns. I need to make that the fun part of the exercise. It's the hardest thing for her. We'll keep practicing. Thanks for journeying with me.


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## lily cd re

It is really hard to make progress when training in isolation, so even our virtual support for each other really is important, isn't it?


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## Click-N-Treat

It certainly is important. We can bounce ideas off each other and help us figure out what to try next. Noelle and I are isolating about turns this week. Remember about turns in place from early novice classes? Yeah, we're doing those. Lots of those.


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## lily cd re

Javelin and I did lots of about turns today! Lily did all of the variations of rally master jumps too.


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## Skylar

Click, were you and Noelle taught to use a cone with the broad jump? Before we even did the broad jump, I taught Babykins to go out and around a cone and then back to front position. This was to teach her to go out straight before turning around to front. Then we added the broad jump with the cone so as to keep jumping straight over the middle before turning to get in front. Babykins learned to jump over straight no matter where I’m located to come in front. This was to avoid her turning while in mid jump and not cutting the corner.


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## lily cd re

I diddn't use a cone for the broad jump but I did put a piece of house gutter under the 2nd board and over the third board sticking it upward and past the fourth board. Once Javelin understood that he had to jump in extension to land to go around that I reduced it to a yard stick and now usually nothing. He really has never thought about cutting the corner (my good fortune). I generally try to put out as few objects that would require later fading as possible these days, although I certainly use them when I need to and appreciate how they can help the dog understand the exercise.


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## Click-N-Treat

I like the go to the cone and around it. That's clever! I worry Noelle would get confused when the cone wasn't there. Noelle tends to combine things in her head and they become stuck together. Instead of jump, go around the cone, find mom being separated into chunks, Noelle would blur it. The cone would trigger the jump. So, I ask for a jump, but there's no cone... Noelle would not know how to jump. I have to be careful what I add into Noelle's training because I probably won't be able to remove it later. I have never tossed a treat over the jump for the same reason. Jump, snorkel the ground for treats, come find mom is not what I'm trying to train. 

Right now, I'm standing way ahead of the broad jump so she has to clear the jump, run a few steps and then find front. I'm backing up closer to the jump in stages. She didn't cut the corner the last few times, so I think we're getting there. Also the rally Send to Jump with a broad jump has been helpful. I'm behind the jump so she's less tempted to cut the corner. My trainer says it's muscle memory. 

It's all a gigantic puzzle, isn't it? Little behaviors and more little behaviors. I think we have the edges filled in. The middle is still a bit of a jumble. Tomorrow we're doing our first ever Open run-through. We will see what happens.


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## BabetteH

Good luck with the run through! Is it in a familiar space?

Our trainer in the novice class wants to work on more advanced exercises, too. He asked about our experience with dumbbells and jumps. How did you know what size and material for the dumbbell works best for your dog?

I'll go back to reading the obedience rules for open and utility. What other items do I need? Dumbbell for retrieve, jumps (for training). But I also need a set of identical dumbbells and "gloves", right?


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## Click-N-Treat

I had a hard time getting the right sized dumbbell for Noelle. I started with an off the shelf extra small plastic dumbbell. But, being a poodle, Noelle has a long nose. She kept hitting her face on the floor and decided it was easier to pick the dumbbell up by the bells. My trainer suggested a bigger dumbbell. So I got a small. Well, the small dumbbell was too heavy, the stick was too long, but the bells were the right size. That was not working either. I had a custom dumbbell made a few months ago. It's basically a mashup of the two: gigantic bells, tiny stick. Noelle picks it up correctly now. 

Ask your trainer what size to get. That's what I ended up doing before I had one custom made. As far as utility, you'll need three white gloves and scent articles. I got itty bitty wood and leather scent articles and Noelle really likes them.


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## lily cd re

It is wise to train through utility before starting in open (even actually most really top level trainers teach all levels before starting to show and this is what I am doing with Javelin). You need a dumbbell and to size it either have your instructor help measure or use the guidance at supply vendors like Max200 Max200 Agility,Obedience, Trial Equipment, Obedience Training, Flyball Competition, Wood One-Piece Dumbbells | Leashes, Agility Tables, Tunnels, Dog Walks, Max 200 or Training Treasures About Us

I have articles and dumbbells from both of those vendors for both poodles, but settled on Training Treasures for Javelin's equipment. Be aware that the scent articles are hand crafted to order and take a long time (line about 6 months), so get them soon if you are really commited to going through. They were worth waiting for. I would suggest doing wood and leather, but your choice for scent articles are two of these three: leather wood or metal. Lily hated metal with a passion. If you are undecided about the materials for scent articles you can order one of each from Max 200 to test. Once you are sure about the materials for your articles get extras. You need five of each but for Javelin I have ten of each. Also just as an FYI nobody calls scent articles dumbbells (articles) and they don't have to be shaped like dumbbells. Before wood was an option I used mason jar rings for Lily's metals. I think she was having a galvanic reaction to aluminum articles. If dumbbell shaped scent articles should have the same bell (end) sizes but can have slighlty longer bits. One important part of sizing is that the corners of the ends of those items do not interfere with the dog's vision. You will also need gloves for the utility directed retrieve. I particularly like the gloves made by Anne Headings at Just Right Gloves https://www.justrightgloves.com/. She makes them to order by size and has many options for colors on the cuffs. And BTW Click the gloves don't have to be white I have seen people use light colored leather gloves (and no they don't have to be fabric just have to be actual gloves that someone could wear).


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## lily cd re

Thinking of it now, BabetteH are you coming to the Suffolk Obedience Rally trial? I can show you the items I referenced if you will be there.


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## Click-N-Treat

I haven't started Utility, so I was going by the rules about the gloves.

"Section 10. Directed Retrieve. The principal features of this exercise are that the dog stay until directed to retrieve and that it complete the retrieve of the designated glove.
The orders are: “One,” “Two,” or “Three,” “Take it,” and “Finish.”
In this exercise the handler will provide three gloves that are predominately white."

I'll have to look at Just Right Gloves. I wonder if heavier gloves would make Noelle less likely to try and shake them to death.


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## BabetteH

Thank you! Do the articles need to be dumbbell shaped? I don't want to travel around with 10 dumbbells if I could use small pieces of leather and small wood sticks instead.


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## mvhplank

BabetteH said:


> Thank you! Do the articles need to be dumbbell shaped? I don't want to travel around with 10 dumbbells if I could use small pieces of leather and small wood sticks instead.


No, they don't have to be "dumbbell" shaped, though that's what is most commonly available. I've seen leather bracelets and canning jar rings. I've heard about leather baby shoes and wooden children's blocks. The rules just specify the material and that they be numbered, not the form they should take. Rules say somewhere (I think) that they can be "common household items." Edited to add that they should be "proportional to the size of the dog."

Edited again, since I just noticed your last sentence. The dog has to be able to pick it up, so things that lie flat might be frustrating to the dog. You can certainly experiment with inexpensive items, and even show with them. My own scent articles are not particularly expensive (metal and leather), and I now have a set of 8 each.


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## Skylar

BabetteH buy your dumbbell from Max200. I followed their instructions to measure my dogs mouth carefully. I bought because I was told to buy, but my trainer didn’t help me measure and just told us to buy one with no help. I took it to another class and that instructor noticed it was a ltitle too wide. We tried their dumbbell and it fit So I had those measurements. I called Max200 and they were happy to take the dumbbell back and sent me the new one which was the correct size. Now that my dog is experienced with dumbbell retrieving she can retrieve different sized dumbbells but it helps to start with one that fits properly. 

i got articles from max200 also based on the same size of the dumbbell. I waited too long to purchase the gorgeous ones that Catherine bought, even with Max200 I had to wait which is why I started with canning lids. 

I did start training articles with canning rings. Babykins was happy to identify the correct ring based on my scent but she didn’t want to pick one up to bring it back. Plus I was having trouble getting numbers to stick to them for identification in a trial. I had considered wooden bracelets and leather bracelets or wrapping canning rings with leather for the leather articles But decided it wasn’t worth the effort. I have seen someone compete with square wood blocks and canning rings. Leather baby shoes are pricey. Most people buy utility articles probably because it’s easier. 

As for the gloves. I have three sets, two were custom made. One set of custom was purchased on line and the other was made buy someone in my club. I prefer cotton sweatshirt material because they stand up more off the mat making then easier for my dog to see and pick up. The custom ones are smaller and nicer than the flat cheap ones from Max200. My dog is happy to drag around stuffed animals almost her size, including jumping on the bed with them. With gloves I wanted something that didn’t drag or flop so she could carry them neatly back to me.


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## lily cd re

Click I have not seen how judges respond to slightly non white leathers in the ring and I would suggest small size flannel fleece for Noelle. They are not so floppy and neither of my dogs shakes them since they have a bit of body to them.

BabetteH the articles do not have to be shaped like dumbbells so long as all of the articles of one material are the same shape. The two sets don't actually have to be the same shape either.


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## BabetteH

Funny enough, my pup found a glove on our walk yesterday. He proudly picked it up and carried it, even while peeing. 

How do you handle the articles for scent discrimination? Do you avoid touching them during training or when you pack them etc? That seems complicated.


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## lily cd re

BabetteH said:


> Funny enough, my pup found a glove on our walk yesterday. He proudly picked it up and carried it, even while peeing.
> 
> *How do you handle the articles for scent discrimination? Do you avoid touching them during training or when you pack them etc? That seems complicated.*


Teaching scent discrimination has to be done very carefully. Dogs actually know scent discrimination innately but to show them how to work on their own but in the confines of the exercise is tricky. They have to understand and be encouraged to use their natural ability and keep their confidence while also having them be successful. I taught scent this summer to Javelin using a method called around the clock by Janice DeMello before moving his article pile onto a mat made of window screening. He loves scent and is very reliable in his search methods and understands his job very clearly. To read more about teaching scent start at post 383 on page 20 in my thread on Javelin's training. Javelin's road to ring ready! This link should take you to the correct page in that thread.


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## Click-N-Treat

Dogs enjoy using their noses, which is what makes the scent discrimination exercise so much fun to train and fun for the dog to do. However, Catherine is right. It's a little tricky to keep it fun for the dog and to have a high rate of success. Long before you get articles, I suggest you teach your dog to match a scent as a game. Get some small plastic containers with lids at the dollar store, and some eye make up pads. Poke a hole in the plastic container lids to let the scent escape. Scent two eye make up pads with a few drops of vanilla extract. Put one pad in a container and snap on the lid. Offer your dog the vanilla pad to sniff, and give a treat. Repeat sniff and treat several times. Next offer the dog the container with the vanilla scented pad inside with the lid on. Let them sniff the container and give a treat. Repeat. Then alternate between sniff the pad and sniff the container. 

Put the plastic container with the scented pad on the floor next to an identical container without the scented pad. Offer the vanilla scented pad, then encourage your dog to find the right smelling container and reward richly. Add a third distraction container. Add a fourth. How many containers can your dog ignore and find the right one? Noelle got up to 15 containers. Add distraction scents like coffee and shampoo and soy sauce. Finding the right container leads to a treat. The match the scent game is fun. We played it a lot while I was training Noelle to be a diabetes alert dog. Only instead of finding vanilla extract, she was finding low blood glucose scent. 

When we moved to actual articles, I started out giving Noelle my scent and one article to match my scent. I set her up with a 100% chance of success. I stayed with a 100% chance of success for several days before I tried to trick her with a fake choice. Noelle's tail almost wagged off when she realized it was possible to be tricked. Then I added a third article and so on until all articles were on the floor. Noelle zeroed in on the correct choice and has never made a mistake. I think setting the dog up to be 100% correct for a very long time helped Noelle learn what she was sniffing for. Also, having a long history of playing the match the smell game helped. I also learned a lot here: How to Train Scent Discrimination for Obedience Competition | Karen Pryor Clicker Training

There are as many different ways to train scent discrimination as there are dog trainers. This method worked for me and my dog. Play around with containers and finding scents, that way if you make a mistake in your training, you haven't created a situation where the dog hates your articles.


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## Click-N-Treat

So, we had our first Open run-through tonight. I learned a lot about where we are in our training. Heel free was lovely. The only problem I had was Dave wanted me to reward more often. Figure eight was a bit laggy, but overall Dave was pleased, so I was pleased. 

Drop on recall has a proximity problem. Noelle thinks she has to be about six feet from me before she drops. We're going to work on that. 

Retrieve on the flat was picture perfect. Retrieve over a "high" jump (a whopping 8 inches) went well. I ran to the jump and cheered her over and ran backward. Not trial ready, but an improvement. We're going to work on that, too. Broad jump, same. All of that needs more practice. 

Command discrimination. We were in the far corner of the ring right next to agility. Dave had me stand my dog. She stood. I walked 15 feet and turned. Just as I turned, some kind of dog fight broke out. People started yelling. Complete chaos right outside the ring. I gave Dave a worried look. Dave said, "I don't care what's going on, down your dog." I took a deep breath and said, "Down." Instantly, Noelle folded down and didn't move her front paws a hair. I walked to the far opposite ring corner. Dave said sit your dog. I cued a sit. Noelle did a pop-up sit and her front paws never moved. She held her sit until I returned to heel position. Then Dave and I both went completely bananas cheering and playing with Noelle. I wish I was trialing that was so perfect. All that chaos and madness outside the ring gate, and in the ring right next to us, and she drilled those position changes. So proud of my dog! 

Stand stay get your leash. I cued a stand. Noelle stood with her head facing my knee and her butt facing the wrong way. My dog cannot stand in heel position. Still, she stayed while I left the ring and got her leash and maintained her stand stay until I clipped on the leash. Awesome.

What went well:
Heeling, figure 8, retrieve on the flat, command discrimination, stand stay get your leash.

We need to work on: 
Proper stands, drop on recall, taking the dumbbell over the jump, and the broad jump. We're not going to rush any of this, but take our time and work carefully. In a few weeks we're going to try another run-through. All in all, I'm pleased.


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## BabetteH

@Click-N-Treat that sounds like a great run through! Seems like you just need a little more proofing and you'll do great! 

Thanks so much for the explaination for scent discrimination. We've been doing Scent Work for a while now. We did primary only for almost 6 month and just started with birch. I know you have to be careful with odor, i.e., wear gloves, use tweezers, store the hot containers in a different room. But I was curious how you do this for your handler scent articles. Looks like I can put them in the fridge between practise so they're not contaminated the second I touch them to put them on my shelf?

This is probably a silly question, but once your dog is solid on scent discrimination, do you scent a different dumbbell in every training? Or do you have one that's always the hot one? For scent work, I labeled my containers as hot and cold, that's why I'm wondering. At a trial, does the judge pick which dumbbell you should scent? Or do you have 5 clean ones and one that's always scented?


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## lily cd re

I totally don't get putting articles in the refrigerator. The refrigerator is full of complex scents! I never leave any articles even near my kitchen. I do cool down articles I have recently used but leave them in the bedroom away from food smells. BabetteH I truly hope you will look at around the clock. I have never seen a dog have article problems if around the clock was used as the foundation for this work. It teaches the dog to be very methodical in going around the pile. During around the clock you will use the same articles over and over. Keep them separate in a ziploc bag. Once you transition to the mat you will use one pair of articles two or three times then move onto another pair. Since the first pair will be cooling down for a while this is why you need extra articles.

At trials a steward will generally either pick the articles to be used out of your bag with tongs or they will ask you to take the articles out of the bag just before your run. Yes you will brush over other articles, but the purpose of the exercise is for the dog to find the article that is different. Two things help this happen. First as the steward puts out the pile they will touch all of the "incorrect" articles as they place them. Second you will add your scent as the hot scent in the process of the exercise. Interestingly I see more people overscent their articles than not. When I stewarded at obedience nationals articles were one of the exercises in the ring I worked in. The other ring steward was a judge plus there was the working judge. When dogs struggled at the pile the two judges commented a number of times that the article was too hot. Dogs indicated but wouldn't take the correct article and went around and around indicating repeatedly but not taking the article. Lily was prone to doing that too. For Javelin once I stopped using the squeeze cheese in around the clock I stopped using any scent other than my own. He is very reliable.


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## Click-N-Treat

Catherine you are so right, there’s no need to over scent the article by spinning it and grabbing it over and over. A quick rub is enough. I only gasp the bar for a second. Noelle knows what her nose is looking for. Too much scent can be a turn off.


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## Click-N-Treat

Back from training in Open. You know those times in the ring when you and your dog are in a mind meld? Tonight was one of those nights. It was just magical. Her retrieve on the flat tonight was the best I have ever seen. She rocketed to the dumbbell faster than I knew she could run, grabbed it, whipped around and brought it square in front. I can't believe this is the same dog who spit out the dumbbell and hated it. Now she just loves that thing! She got it over the jump, too. We have a long way to go before we'll be ready to show in Open, but if we keep having practice like this, I believe we'll get there. Together.


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## Click-N-Treat

Yesterday, I spent about an hour practicing throwing the dumbbell over the jump in my backyard. I'm working hard on learning to plant it directly behind the jump. Where the dumbbell lands sets Noelle up for success. I know that she runs straight out to the dumbbell, picks it up to the left, turns, and brings it. So, if I keep that in mind when I throw the dumbbell, I make it easier for her. Dumbbells are not as easy to throw as it seems. The more I practice by myself, the better human partner I will be. 

Noelle is now solidly taking the dumbbell over her full jump height now. I'm impressed how quickly she picked this up. However, she has gone around the jump when the dumbbell took a bad bounce, so I'm going to set her up in practice. I'll set the dumbbell off to the side of the jump and send her over anyway. 

Drop on recall... sucks. She's still thinking it's a proximity thing rather than down on cue. She runs until she's about six feet to me, and then lies down, no matter when I cue the down. 

We've added some utility to our open practice. Scent articles we've had solid for a while now. I only pull them out once a day. Find the leather. Find the wood. Good girl, we're done. Today she sat out of reach with the wood article. No click, no treat, no words. I silently put the wood one back in the pile. Second time, she came charging right to me and sat in front. Well done, Noelle. Here's your treat, and Mr. Fox, too.

We practiced gloves. I pivot, point, send her and pow! Run to the glove I ask for, snag it, bring it back to front. Noelle adores this exercise. I think it's her favorite of all the things we've practiced.

I've been thinking about how to teach a go out for utility. There are a thousand different ways I'm sure. The old standby is a treat on the ring gate. I saw that training method backfire at a trial I stewarded. Dogs ran to the ring gate, hunted for the cookie, sniffed the floor for the cookie, and... NQ. How am I going to avoid this? Because I know Noelle. If she ever, once, found a treat on the ring gate that's all she would be thinking about. Not just during the go out, but during the whole trial. 

So, how am I going to teach this dog to run straight out across the ring, spin and sit? Well, what about a tap light? Noelle learned to light it up for her trick dog title. Step on the button and the light comes on. Bonus, Noelle loves when I say, "light it up." 

Run out to the tap light, step on it, click/treat. 
Run out to the tap light, step on it, I call "sit" click/treat. 
Run out to the tap light, I call sit just _before_ she steps on it, click and jackpot!!!!! 
Substitute the tap light with other random objects, call sit before she gets there, click/treat. 
Substitute a Post-it note.
Substitute a piece of tape.

I started steps 1, 2, and 3 in rapid succession. I didn't want Noelle to think the goal is to actually light up the light. The goal is to run fast and then whirl and sit when I say so. By raising criteria quickly, I was able to get the point across to Noelle. Run, spin, sit. We've made it to step four in my house. I have yet to try this at the training club. However, my cue for the go out is, "Light it up!" 

We're having a blast training these days. I think we'll start going to Open matches in the late spring and maybe enter our first trial in the summer. 

Onward!


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## scooterscout99

Your motivation is exciting. It sounds like Noelle enjoys the practice sessions. I agree about the dumbbell toss, not as easy as it looks. Go team C&T!


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## lily cd re

Part of why Javelin is named Javelin is because a well thrown javelin goes straight and far. Since I struggled so much with go out for Lily I wanted a way to remind myself not to mess this up with him. I inadvertently taught Lily to go find food several different times and always had a hard time converting go find food into go out even though you won't find anything. Eventually I got it better under low pressure conditions but she always struggled with it in trials. It is the main reason she never earned a UD. 

Here is a summary of what I did with Javelin.

He never ever has found a piece of food at the go out. And he never will.
We started up close to the go out spot and taught him to go stand facing the stanchion. When we still sending him just a foot or two I would give him food while he stood. As we moved further out, Deb or whoever was there would be near go out and they would give the food reward.
He was taught the turn and sit separately and those two parts were only connected once he could do a full distance go out and nice turn and sits separately with confidence.
Once he could do both parts together at full distance I started to add in the jumps. 
When there were problems and there have been problems I either shortened the distance and/or added a target box to show where he should go to get the turn and sit order.
We have worked hard on making him understand that he can't sit until I tell him to do so and also on not letting him take jumps without waiting for orders. He is so smart he thinks he can do any number of complex exercises without waiting for orders.
Directed jumping is one of the utility exercises that has many small parts which is why I have been so careful to return to the fundamental small parts so that Javelin is always being reminded not just of the big picture but also of the small parts that go into that picture.


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## Click-N-Treat

That's so smart, Catherine. Yes, break the behavior down to the atomic level and build it from there. You can't make steel without iron and carbon. Make sure the iron and carbon parts are perfect before combining them into steely solid behavior. I have watched utility break down with directed jumping in three different ways.

1. Go out and hunt a cookie.
2. Mistake the jump cue for a recall. (easy to do if your recall hand signal looks like a jump cue)
3. Taking the wrong jump.

I'm training go out completely separate from directed jumping. Just like I trained finish completely separately from front. Go out and sit is challenging on its own. Run straight between the jumps. Do not jump. Do not run to the judge. Do not run to the ring gate and say hi to the dogs in the other rings. Do not walk. Do not get lost on the way there. We'll do at least a thousand and one repetitions of just go out and sit before I'll ever ask for a jump. 

I watched Bridget Carlsen's utility with her NOC dog. That dog shot away from her at full speed and spun around so fast and sat it looked like magic. But, of course, it's not magic. It's breaking the behaviors down, all of them, at the atomic level. Can your dog turn and sit in front? Can your dog turn and sit six inches away from you? If you throw a treat and send the dog to the treat, can the dog turn and sit three feet from you? If the behavior breaks down, back up to the last successful spot and start again.

I train my dog like every step is a ladder rung. If one rung is weak, the whole behavior is going to fall apart. At the same time, there's an art to figuring out how quickly to send the dog up the ladder, so they don't plateau and get stuck. That's why, with the tap light, I moved quickly to sit by the tap light, but don't turn it on. The last thing I want is for Noelle to think the game is run and hunt for a tap light. Still, it was gratifying to see how quickly she understood the game. And it's all games! That's what makes training dogs so much fun.


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## Click-N-Treat

I just discovered we can do Trick Dog testing via video clips. So, Noelle and I are working on Trick Dog Advanced. I'm sending videos to my favorite trainer, Liz. Training silly dog tricks has been helpful since I can't go to class and work on Rally and Obedience. Noelle just mastered yanking a tissue out of a box on the cue, Achoo! It's a cute trick and fun to train. 

Any evaluator who can do CGC tests can also sign off on trick dog titles. Just something to consider if you're home, and you are home, right?


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## Click-N-Treat

This afternoon was beautiful and sunny. After playing ball with Noelle for a while, I put a bag of treats in my pocket and started walking the heel pattern in my yard. I didn't call Noelle, or encourage her in any way. I just changed my posture and started walking. When Noelle showed up in heel position, I marked it, and gave her a treat. Heeling with me was her choice. And she chose to heel with me! It was so much fun. 

I think this might be my favorite way to reinforce heeling. The key to the game is heeling is the dog's choice, not your choice. So, the dog is free to run away and chase butterflies. My job is to practice my heeling footwork and keep my mouth shut. When Noelle arrived in heel position and made eye contact, I gave her a treat and kept walking. At first, I just walked a rectangle. Then I added the dreaded about turns. And would you believe Noelle made all of the about turns with me? Outside? With a gazillion other distractions? Wow. 

I stopped and she sat. I stopped again and she realized she was too far forward, stepped backward, and then sat in heel. Yes, I almost fainted! We will continue playing choose to heel, only I'll upgrade my snacks from dog treats to chicken. I want Noelle to believe that heeling is the most fun thing we can do together. 

I've also started dancing with Noelle. Nothing serious, just a few rally moves in time with music. It's fun, good exercise, and relaxing for me. Heel forward, heel backward, left about turn, heel forward, heel backward, circle right, side step right... That kind of thing. I haven't gotten serious with any choreography, or planned anything. Maybe we can practice a little dance routine over the summer. I'd like that. I think Noelle would, too.


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## mvhplank

Nice! I'll have to try that with the boys and see what their response is. Neely, now 8, often finds anything besides heeling to be more interesting, but young Hobbes (7.5 months) seems to like to be with me.


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## Click-N-Treat

If you play, use your highest value treats. Noelle already knows this game, so I was able to get a response with low value treats. The hardest part of this game is on my end. I always want to encourage Noelle to heel with me, and call her back if she gets out of position, and all that. But, the strongest behaviors in my dog's repertoire are behaviors she herself chooses and finds rewarding. I heel in the most formal posture I can muster, and just work on my footwork. The dog shows up, treat as close to continuously as you can manage. Open bar! Treat every other step. The dog leaves heel position, closed bar. You keep walking nonetheless. If your timing is good, the dog pretty quickly figures out that heel position is where they get paid. If you have supper yummy stuff, especially with a puppy, this game can make heeling very rewarding.

Another way I play this game is I pretend the last thing I want is for Noelle to heel. So, I am playful and fun, and tell her to go away. "Ew, a poodle." "I didn't ask for a poodle." "Can I lose the poodle if I stop? No, she's still here!" That kind of happy rally style prattle, making sure I am clearly being silly. If I am happy, and silly, and playful with Noelle, she buys into the heeling game.

The greatest bonus to this game? Exercise for YOU, which is getting very difficult these days. Pace change, and run often. Let me know if you play. Enjoy.


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## mvhplank

Click, I like those ideas! I've been able to put together an outdoor training area in my way-back yard. The yard closer to the house is the pee, poop, and no-work zone and the interesting things happen in the other yard.


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## Porkchop

I’m sorry if this has been mentioned before. About how tall is Noelle? How do you give her treats while working on heeling, do you bend down to give them? I can’t figure a way to deliver the treat to my 13” tall dog without bending down.


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle is 16 inches at the withers, which makes her an oversize mini/small standard. Her mouth is where my hand rests while heeling, which makes it easy to pass treats. Here's what you do with a small dog. You need a paint stick and either cheese in a can, Kong stuffing, meat baby food, or liverwurst. Put treat goo on the end of your paint stick. Hold the paint stick in your left hand, across your belly, goo pointing right. Dip the paint stick down for your dog to lick, return the paint stick across your belly with the goo pointing right. To get really accurate heeling, pay attention to your treat delivery. You want your dog's head positioned ears even with your pants seam. So, when your dog is in the exact position you want, bring your stick down along the side of your pants. Practice this motion without your dog, and without treat goo, so you can feel how fluidly to move the paint stick. Dip along your pants leg, treat, return to middle. Then practice this same motion while walking. 

The dog should be off leash for this practice anyway, so you don't have to worry about how to hold a leash. Remember, this game relies on the dog making the choice to heel. The dog can't make a choice on a leash. If you want to prime the pump, so to speak, let the dog lick some treat off the stick, and then without any warning, run away with the stick. If your treat was tasty enough, your dog will race after you. Wait, where did you go? How do I get more of that stuff? Oh, all I gotta do is walk next to you and I get yummy stuff? Wow. 

Treats are dog money. If I said I would pay you $1.00 to find a ring in my yard, you could find a million more interesting things to do. If I said I would pay you $1,000,000 to find the ring, you'd search every blade of grass. So, high value reward for high value behavior. I consider heeling $1,000,000 behavior and pay my dog accordingly.


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## mvhplank

Tried some play and heeling with both dogs this afternoon. I'm very hopeful! Hobbes is very happy to stay right with me, and Neely's attention is improving. Neely has always been my "social" dog, wishing to go investigate the judges and stewards, and making me work to keep his attention between exercises. Hobbes is more reserved with new people, so I hope that will work in my favor.

M


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## For Want of Poodle

Thank you! That was a fun game. I tried this afternoon with Annie in the backyard, and while she couldn't be completely free (I had to call her back if she started thinking of visiting the neighbours, as the yard is not fenced), she had a good time volun-heeling. Annie wasn't particularly great at it, but I suspect now that we have groceries in the house and I can use something more appetizing, that might improve  Thanks Click!


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## Click-N-Treat

You can also play this game in your living room, by the way. It's easier to start it indoors because there are less distractions. But I am so glad to hear you guys had fun with it, too.


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## Skylar

I love this game of voluntary heeling. Click, you're so smart.


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## PeggyTheParti

After having a minor meltdown after I tried to trim her face, Peggy was in a _mood_. So we headed outside for some play heeling. It was such a good way to reset her brain, use up the last of the cheese I'd intended to use while grooming, and remind us both that she is in fact a Very Good Girl.

Thanks for the inspiration, Click! The only thing I did differently was maintain total silence. I sensed Peggy needed this to regain a little calm. She thought it was great fun and even followed me straight inside afterwards, wanting to continue.


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## Click-N-Treat

Oh, I didn't invent this training method. Far wiser trainers came up with this one. I just pulled it out of the toolkit and remembered how much fun it was. I hope you get a chance to play this game.


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## Click-N-Treat

Wow, using heeling practice as a grooming reset? I wouldn't have thought of that. Goodness! I'm glad your dog enjoyed that.


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## PeggyTheParti

😂 I know. Usually I'd have just let her blow off steam. But it was her choice, and she chose to join the strange human walking silently around the yard. I love seeing her choose calm. And now she's snoozing hard.


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## Porkchop

@Click-N-Treat thank you for the idea! I’ll hopefully be able to get the supplies soon. I have about a 5’x5’ rectangle to walk around indoors and no fenced yard so I was hoping to work on leash in the yard. But I can go in the hockey rink at a local park for a fenced in area so we have space to work off leash.


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## lily cd re

I find silence to be very useful. Javelin especially will stare off into space when I stop at first, but then he always redirects to me with a look that says something along the lines of "hey mom what are you doing? Please tell me what to do."

As to places to do things if you don't have a big enough house and/or a fenced in yard you can see if it is possible to use a tennis or basketball court that is fenced and allowed to be used. Go early.


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## Click-N-Treat

My rally class reopened today. It was at a different building, but with our favorite trainer, Liz. Noelle was too distracted by being in a new space to do much more than sniff. I decided to ignore the signs for the most part and just did some nice heads up heeling and about turns. 

It was funny, because Liz was wearing a mask and Noelle didn't recognize her right away. But, then Liz pulled down her mask and said, "Hi, Noelle."

Noelle exploded with joy. Racing around the ring, leaping on Liz, racing around the ring again. Kissing and hugging Liz, and then going around the ring at full speed again. This was happy zoomies, not stress zoomies. Noelle missed Liz so badly. No wonder she went bananas. I don't think I've seen Noelle that happy in a very long time. Ah well, it wasn't like I was planning on anything different happening. I think Noelle will settle down in the ring in about three weeks or so. 

It felt good to be back in the rally ring, though. Yes, it sure did.


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## Carolinek

Click-N-Treat said:


> My rally class reopened today. It was at a different building, but with our favorite trainer, Liz. Noelle was too distracted by being in a new space to do much more than sniff. I decided to ignore the signs for the most part and just did some nice heads up heeling and about turns.
> 
> It was funny, because Liz was wearing a mask and Noelle didn't recognize her right away. But, then Liz pulled down her mask and said, "Hi, Noelle."
> 
> Noelle exploded with joy. Racing around the ring, leaping on Liz, racing around the ring again. Kissing and hugging Liz, and then going around the ring at full speed again. This was happy zoomies, not stress zoomies. Noelle missed Liz so badly. No wonder she went bananas. I don't think I've seen Noelle that happy in a very long time. Ah well, it wasn't like I was planning on anything different happening. I think Noelle will settle down in the ring in about three weeks or so.
> 
> It felt good to be back in the rally ring, though. Yes, it sure did.


That’s great that you’re back, it must feel good. We’re back too, only for outside right now, but I’ll take it!


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## FloofyPoodle

Click-N-Treat said:


> oelle exploded with joy. Racing around the ring, leaping on Liz, racing around the ring again. Kissing and hugging Liz, and then going around the ring at full speed again. This was happy zoomies, not stress zoomies. Noelle missed Liz so badly. No wonder she went bananas. I don't think I've seen Noelle that happy in a very long time. Ah well, it wasn't like I was planning on anything different happening. I think Noelle will settle down in the ring in about three weeks or so.


That’s one of the cutest things I’ve ever heard.


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## Click-N-Treat

After dinner tonight, Noelle would not settle down. I took her out. She did her business, came back and was still restless. She went over to her scent article bag and bonked it with her nose. Raced around the room, went back to the bag and bonked it again. She added a howl. Arrooo! Back to the bag. Bonk! 

Odd. Wondering if she wanted to work on scent articles, I got out her wee dumbbells and set them up. We haven't done this for several months. I wondered what would happen. I turned my back with Noelle in heel position and called, "Find it," as we whirled around.

Noelle launched toward the pile, sniffed out the right wooden dumbbell in half a second, and brought it to front. I took the dumbbell, flicked my finger and she leapt into heel. 

I set out the leather set and the same thing happened. She was so happy! 

After we "played" the scent article game a few times, Noelle climbed up on my bed with her bone and settled down. That's right, folks. Noelle wanted to train and wouldn't take no for an answer. I love that it was her idea to play with the scent articles. When we finally make it to utility, that's going to be her best exercise, because it's one of her favorite games. Such a funny dog.

Here's a picture of Noelle at Rally class yesterday. She was super happy to see Liz. Terrible at Rally, but there's plenty of time to get her back on track. I expected her to be too distracted to work. A new place we'd never been before, plus three months at home, I didn't expect much more than Cuckoo for Coco Puffs behavior. At least it wasn't a trial! I'm guessing after a few weeks of regular classes Noelle will settle down and get back into work mode. We're not trialing any time soon, so I have all the time in the world to train. Love this fuzzy headed girl.


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## Click-N-Treat

We went to rally class again! Whoo hoo! This time, I planned ahead. I got a brand new Mr. Fox and put him in my pocket. After warming Noelle up with a few treats, we went into the ring. Noelle was distracted by a box full of obedience equipment, but eventually lined up in a sit by the Start sign. We did a Novice course. The first two signs, Noelle clearly had no idea where we were, or what we were supposed to be doing. By the time we got to sign four, 360 Circle Left, the quarter dropped inside Noelle's head.

She looked up, her eyes were wide, and suddenly her tail started flapping like a checkered flag. Rally? You bringed me to rally? We can do rally in this place? Oh wow! WOW! She started to strut in heel position. And we did the rest of the course with Noelle fully engaged and happy, happy, happy. 

It 
was
so
ADORABLE!

Oh my goodness, it was the cutest thing when she realized we were there to do rally. She missed it as much as I did. I pulled out Mr. Fox and played tug at the end. Onward!


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle and I started playing a new training game and it was so much fun. I got Mr. Fox and put him on the coffee table. I said, "Leave it." She left it, I clicked for eye contact and we played tug. I put Mr. Fox back on the coffee table. This time, I said, "Get in!" Noelle jumped into a left finish and sat. Click! Tug. Returned the toy to the coffee table. "Get in!" Another leaping finish. Heel. We heeled two steps. Noelle sat. Click! More tug. 

I kept raising criteria to get the toy back in the tiniest little steps. Noelle absolutely loved this game. I got out her dumbbell, tossed it, waited for the retrieve, gestured a finish. Click! Tug. Play is more reinforcing for Noelle than food. And by using my clicker, I was able to mark exactly what she did to earn her toy back. Noelle appreciated the clarity. So did I. 

My goal is to be able to leave Mr. Fox on a chair outside the ring, run through all of Open, then get Mr. Fox and play. The first part is teaching Noelle to stay engaged with me for an entire exercise with Mr. Fox visible, but not in my hand or my pocket. Noelle will be five in October. It took until 4 and a half for Noelle to have the maturity to delay gratification well enough to play this game. Noelle stayed a puppy for three years. Very slow to mature, but I had the patience to let her bloom at her own speed. 

It's a children's book, but it applies to dog parents as well. I kept this book in mind while waiting for Noelle to bloom.






If you get frustrated with your young dog, come back to this. Noelle was a late bloomer, but what beautiful blossom she became.


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## Click-N-Treat

Liz decided not to teach our rally class anymore, and passed the class on to me. Which is fine because Liz inherited the class from another trainer, who inherited it from another trainer. I just got hired to teach Rally. So, my former classmates are now my students, which is just bizarre. Anyhow... There are five students signed up, but only two came last week. I didn't bring Noelle. Both of my students told me I needed to bring her. 

I brought Noelle back to our old training facility for the first time since March. Noelle recognized the parking lot and got super excited. I brought her in and set up her crate. Then I set up an Excellent course. Our class was scheduled for an hour, but with just two students they were both done with their first runs in five minutes. I told the first student it was her turn again and she was like, no way, my dog needs to rest, it's Noelle's turn. Second student said it was Noelle's turn. All righty then, if my students don't mind me running my dog during their class time, I'm not going to say no. 

I took Noelle into the ring and she jumped up and down and was way too happy. Then I brought her to the start sign. She sat, and would you believe Noelle did her rally run like no time had passed at all? Focused, driven, speedy and fully connected. It was a blast. 

Both of my students got to do four runs. Noelle did four runs as well. We all had a fantastic time. I was really surprised by how connected Noelle was after so many months away. We still need to work on back up three steps. Her butt wanders left. But, her favorite sign of all was in that run. Noelle likes Down While Heeling Call to Finish Sit. Why? No idea. I gesture a finish right and she comes flying.

Four rally runs is a lot for all the dogs and they were all super tired. Next week, we'll do three runs and then pick a sign to work on with our dogs. Even with each team getting four runs, we were still finished in half an hour. I know that when we get more students, Noelle will have her rally runs after class is over. But for now, this is working out fine. 

Yay!


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## Skylar

Congratulations on becoming the teacher. That was a quick handover. She didn't give you any notice? You have such a wonderful way of training that you will be sharing that joy with your students.

I do find because of Covid things are weird. I was called and begged to teach the Beginner/Novice class because that teacher refused to wear masks and got mad when she was told she had to. She immediately quit the day before classes started- very unpleasant.

I'm teaching the Intermediate and Advanced Nosework and mentoring the person who is teaching Beginner Nosework because the teachers at my non-AKC club decided they weren't going to teach. I did pay for one class I teach so I could run Babykins in the class. It wasn't my intention to teach nose work - I take classes at two other places, but I realized it had the advantage that I could plan classes to work on problems I was interested in in addition to what the other students need.


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## Click-N-Treat

Oh, Liz gave me some notice. It was planned, but it's still weird going from student to teacher. Yes, I agree, setting up things that challenge your own dog is a plus. I wasn't planning on bringing Noelle to class because it's my job to teach it and I wouldn't want to infringe on my student's time. But, my two students have been taking rally for years. They just need someone to set up the signs and leave them to it. If I had a full class of 8 students, Noelle would do all of her rally runs after class. 

I spoke to my doctor about dog training classes and coronavirus risk. He told me as long as we are all wearing masks, go ahead and enjoy. The risk is fairly low. Illinois has a mask order anyway and we've been wearing masks since April. At this point, it's like putting on shoes. We were on lockdown longer than some states. Dog training facilities reopened on July 1st. We are all so happy to be back training our dogs. If we were required to wear space suits we would not have cared. 

I'm sorry one of the teachers quit over face masks. But, if that gives you opportunities to grow as a teacher, that's good for you. I enjoy teaching.


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## Skylar

Click-N-Treat said:


> I spoke to my doctor about dog training classes and coronavirus risk. He told me as long as we are all wearing masks, go ahead and enjoy. The risk is fairly low. Illinois has a mask order anyway and we've been wearing masks since April. At this point, it's like putting on shoes. We were on lockdown longer than some states. Dog training facilities reopened on July 1st. We are all so happy to be back training our dogs. If we were required to wear space suits we would not have cared.
> 
> I'm sorry one of the teachers quit over face masks. But, if that gives you opportunities to grow as a teacher, that's good for you. I enjoy teaching.


I’m glad you mentioned what your doctor said. I’m hesitant and didn’t want to be inside this much. I originally was only planning to take one indoor class and not teach. Somehow I ended up with close to my regular schedule of classes AND teaching. The plus with dog training is we were mostly social distancing to keep dogs focused on working with us and not flirting and playing with the other dogs. We had to add in the compulsory mask wearing which is mandatory from our state. I know one club, which I‘m avoiding where a group of people refusing to wear masks went to train together.

I do enjoy teaching and nose work requires a lot of creativity in planning classes so it’s good mental stimulation too.


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## scooterscout99

Congrats to both of you for teaching! Noelle can be classified as the demo dog.

My dog was the same with returning to agility . . . as if we hadn’t stopped. Some days that is the only reason I get out of the house.


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## Click-N-Treat

Oh yeah, she's the demo dog. Of course. That explains everything. 

I was so happy to see Noelle just jump right in. Glad to hear your dog did the same.


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## Click-N-Treat

Grrr. I'm frustrated because I finally got Noelle calm in her Noz2Noz crate, and then the pandemic hit. We stopped trialing, and I stopped teaching, and she stopped using a crate. Now we're back to training and I have to crate her while I teach. But, she threw such a huge fit she ripped a hole in the crate and escaped. 

The places where I teach have crates available for use. When I put Noelle in a crate that isn't her crate, she flips out and starts shrieking. I can't teach and have my dog making a huge fuss. But I can't bring her Noz2Noz because she destroyed it.

I need to find a way to put Noelle in a crate at work and have her not lose her mind. And I need a crate for going to rally trials. Ideally, she would be kenneled in one of the crates that belong to the facilities where I teach. And shut her mouth so I can teach.

I got https://www.amazon.com/Pet-Gear-Comfort-Seconds-Required/dp/B0015MEP3K This crate is complete garbage. One of the latches was broken when I got it. I put Noelle in it and she pushed the latches open and almost escaped. Do I get a folding metal crate? Or maybe a new poodle?


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## Skylar

Silly Noelle. Have you added a soft mat or throw to the crate? I have a nice padded crate pad in Babykin's crate, but it wasn't until I added a soft fuzzy blanket that she settled down and relaxed in her crate. Some people have good luck covering the crate but I find Babykins prefers to look out and see/hear me nearby.

I used to trial with a Noz2Noz crate until Babykins figured out she could poke her nails in the zipper and pull the zipper open. She didn't break the zipper - it split open and she was out visiting people while I was walking the course at a rally trial - oops. Is this what Noelle has done? She did it twice - so I had to buy another crate style.

I got a SportPet Travel crate with a wire door. With no zipper to poke my problem was solved. The rest of the crate is flimsy and not an appropriate choice for dogs that chew or rip through fabric crates. https://www.walmart.com/ip/SportPet...ded-Pet-Crate-Red-Blue-Small-22-5-L/771050475

She seems to have learned not to poke at zippers because I'm now using one of those flimsy pop open crates. I'm concerned with all the chemicals being used to sanitize the club's crates so I prefer to bring my own.









Amazon.com: POP OPEN DOG KENNEL, X-LARGE by Sportpet : Pet Supplies


Amazon.com: POP OPEN DOG KENNEL, X-LARGE by Sportpet : Pet Supplies



www.amazon.com





If you do use a club crate - bring a nice pad and a fluffy blanket as well as toys and maybe a Kong or other treat? You can also throw treats into the crate when she's quite to reinforce good behavior. Does covering the crate with a towel or sheet help?


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle shredded the mesh side of the Noz2Noz and made a hole in it big enough to climb out. I'm so frustrated because I had her solid in that crate without a peep before covid. Now... Sigh. Getting her to settle in a crate that belongs to the training facility would be best. I'll bring a special goodie, and her crate pad, and see if I can make it more of a home for her. As far as trials, I'll need a new crate. I'm not trialing until November and I don't need a trial ready crate until then.


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## For Want of Poodle

Oh no!!! How frustrating. 
I know the poodles in crates problem too well. I can't say Annie is perfectly recrate trained, but she is back to expecting and happily going in her crate, and tolerating me going to other areas of the house without complaint. Our breakthrough moment was when I put one of her favourite chews in the crate. Can't remember if she was given it in the crafe, then she left the crate and I put it back in and closed the door, or if I just put it in the crate in front of her nose. And then I closed the crate door, and she whined and barked and called me mean names for the rest of the day, wanting that chewy. I opened the door in the evening, she sprang inside. If she tried to leave, I took the chew, flung it back in. Since then - crate training has been a lot better. Far from perfect, but she spends 15 min in her crate every night with a chew or treat, and immediately walks in if i go into my bedroom in the middle of the day, hoping for treatss. Not sure if it will work for you, but figure you have long since tried all the standard methods. I often keep the door closed, so now I am the person keeping her out, instead of the person putting her in.


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## Skylar

Excellent plan, make the club crate feel more comfortable with her own pad and special treats. 

She shredded the side.... okay those crates I suggested won’t work. I would spring for one of those folding metal crates. Best to have a crate she simply can’t get out of. They are heavy. I’ve noticed some people have ones that are very quick to set up. Hopefully it will extinguish her mesh shredding so you can transition back to a fabric crate.

Since Covid, when we returned we have a problem of Babykins whimpering in her crate. Sometimes she’s quiet and I think the problem is extinguished only to hear whimpering again. When teaching I’m not always close to reward her with food when she’s quiet.


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## lily cd re

Can you sew a new panel over what got shredded? I don't know why I didn't think of that sooner. I use a metal crate for Javelin who is quite the escape artists otherwise. For Lily who is much more willing to be settled nicely I use a Petego pop up tent style crate. It is super easy to set up, but again needs a Lily not a Javelin. He busted out a seam on the side of a tent crate. It is now a cozy place in the living room for whoever wants to use it.

We have a rally trial today (me and Lily that is). Hopefully talking about this issue won't jinx me.


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## mvhplank

Do you have access to the training facility when you're not teaching classes? If so, doing the Crate Games protocol for the crate you will use while teaching might help. It's not that she doesn't know how to stay in a crate, but needs a little attitude adjustment. If you start out alone in the building, ask other instructors or people who might rent the ring to come in to provided an added distraction and a little bit more of the picture she'll see when you're teaching. 

Neely and Hobbes are solid in their soft crates at shows, but my old rat terrier Devlin (who was dumped on someone's farm so has an unknown history) never, ever, would tolerate a crate except during car rides. And then he'd often whine for quite a long time.

And at home ... maybe Noelle needs to practice her crate skills during the day. Then take that practice on the road to new locations. I've been working from home for ages, and more so during the pandemic. To give myself a break from having two large dogs watch me eat lunch, I tell them it's "time for a nap" and crate them with a big, crunchy treat while I eat.


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## Click-N-Treat

I don't have access to practice crate training at the facilities where I teach. Wish I did. I'll bring special goodies and her own mat for the facility crates. I'll try to make it feel more comfortable. I am assuming she will get more comfortable with the routine as time goes on. This is all new to her, and new to me, as well. We'll figure it out together.


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## Click-N-Treat

We've been practicing command discrimination (Stand/Down/Sit) and drop on recall for Open. And we hit a snag. Noelle is officially confused between the two exercises. After practicing command discrimination, I switched gears to drop on recall. When I called Noelle, she just sat there. She was waiting for me to return like I would after command discrimination. 

In Open A, command discrimination is followed by drop on recall. So, these exercises go back to back in the ring. What can I do to help Noelle reset and know we're moving on to an exercise that looks similar? In both exercises, I'm at a similar distance and asking her to do a thing. I can see why she is confused. 

Question is... how do I clarify things for her?


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## Skylar

These two exercises are our weaknesses. Do you name them? What I mean is do you say “now we are going to do our signal exercises “ and then practice them? Then end with a statement such as “all done”. Then say “now we are doing drop on recall”. Some of my teachers have been telling me to say this and in the ring between exercises so the dog knows what to expect. Maybe that might help?

Also with the signal exercises we mix them up, sometimes in the order for A and sometimes like B. One of my teachers said some people prefer to enter in Open B instead of A because some dogs prefer starting with fun exercises.


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## Click-N-Treat

I like the idea of telling Noelle what exercise we're going to do next. I'll try that.


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## fjm

Are you allowed to change position - perhaps just shifting your weight from one foot to another, or raise left hand instead of right? That, plus the naming, may help her differentiate.


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## scooterscout99

This is not really advice, but what has been taught in the obedience classes that I've taken. The instructors stress the need to mix up the order of commands and exercises so that the dog pays attention to the cue and doesn't respond based on the sequence that they remember. Another example is on the long stays, to not always stay the required amount of time (make it longer) so that the dog doesn't automatically end the stay when they think that the time is up. Or to return to the dog after a long stay, and then leave again, so that they hold the stay no matter what you do.


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## lily cd re

Skylar I roo know many people who talk to the dog to tell them what is next. I do that too. So if we are doing articles I will say "doing sniffies now" while scenting the article. I also hold the article up relatively near my face so Javelin sees the article and stays connected to me. If nothing else I suspect it helps to tell the dog through the handler's body language what they will be doing. To help the dog make the discrimination between exercises that may look similar to the dog moving from one set up location to another is also a way to help them and of course you can talk to the dog on the way from one place to another. Another thing I would consider is teaching the open A command discrimination to be dependent on signals rather than verbals and put drop on recall on verbals primarily. Since the open A CD exercise (stand drop sit) is the same sequence as the utility signals that sequence has to be clean from needing verbals anyway you won't be stuck with having to fade verbals later on. I also would think about leaving the dog for CD with a stay order or signal and the recall with a wait when you leave the dog to help them understand what will be done next.


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## lily cd re

scooterscout99 said:


> This is not really advice, but what has been taught in the obedience classes that I've taken. The instructors stress the need to mix up the order of commands and exercises so that the dog pays attention to the cue and doesn't respond based on the sequence that they remember. Another example is on the long stays, to not always stay the required amount of time (make it longer) so that the dog doesn't automatically end the stay when they think that the time is up. Or to return to the dog after a long stay, and then leave again, so that they hold the stay no matter what you do.



scooterscout I didn't see your post when I replied initially above. As an FYI there are only group stays in novice and they are both one minute stays now for AKC. But also yes you definitely don't just do a 1 minute practice stay. We always go over by about 10 to 20 seconds for my classes and handlers are free to have their dog do the opposite of what the other dogs are doing in addition to me doing them in reverse order. Overall for my own training and practice I always mix things up by putting an open exercise into the middle of two utility exercises and such. Poodles are so smart the memorize patterns very easily. Lily knew the open A order so well that she would often Q everything up to the broad jump (at the time last open A exercise) and then blow it up by sending herself before orders were given because she knew it meant she could get out of the ring that much sooner.

fjm as to orders you can say anything you want and you can use any signals you want. Although most people say and signal similar orders they are not standardized per say. What you can't do is give precues or 2nd orders so changing your weight or balance might not fly. I also couldn't for example say "Javelin.........front." I has to be "Javelin front" with no pause.


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## Click-N-Treat

FJM, We are allowed to move between exercises and praise our dogs. Depending on the judge, you may end up doing drop on recall in a different area of the ring. Or, you may do drop on recall in the exact spot where you just did command discrimination. It's tough!

Scooterscout, I have been training in random order, but we're getting ready to trial so I've been practicing these two similar exercises back to back like we would in a trial, so I know where the weakness is. And I found it! 

Catherine, hand signals for command discrimination, verbal for drop. We've been doing both verbal and signal. I wonder what would happen if I changed to just signals? I could make it very different. I already use stay and wait. Hmm... And I can see how practicing in the same order every time would be a disaster. The only thing we're doing back to back is command discrimination and drop on recall. If those two events are chained in her head, that's ok, at least while we are in Open A. 

I'm teaching tomorrow and will arrive early so we can work on this. On a happier note, I got a plastic kennel with a carry handle. It's bulky to move around, but not heavy. Noelle has claimed her crate as her own and is very happy to hang out in there. Whew. I'll let you know what happens tomorrow.


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## mvhplank

What Skyler said ... quite a while back I watched a poorly produced live webinar by Petra Ford on "precues." The audio was impossible to hear but the poor production wasn't her fault, it was on the Fenzi platform and I think it was the first time they tried something like that. They posted a recorded version later with better audio.

The information was useful, though. As she transitions between exercises, she has a specific verbal cue and hand motion to tell the dog what is coming next. I found an interview with her on Fenzi's site (no login required) that might be helpful: E111: Petra Ford - Planning for the Obedience Ring.

I have picked up bits of this method and it does seem to help the dog understand what's expected. I've also learned (which may or may not be related) not to rush my cues. Take utility signals, for example... I have to be sure that Neely is looking at me before I signal. And then signal deliberately, not quickly. It's better to take points for a slow response than an NQ for no response. The same for directed jumping. He looks at me, I look at the jump and point to it, giving the verbal cue. If I rush it, he misses it and I've blown it. And that follows into the two flavors of glove exercises we do (across the end for AKC and in a baseball diamond for UKC).


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## lily cd re

Marguerite as an FYI I had the pleasure of being crated near enough to Petra at our trials two weeks ago and watched how she worked to get her dogs warmed up for her classes and although I didn't get to watch her runs since I missed one all torgether and was warming Lily up while she was in the ring for utility I can personally vouch for the success of what she does. She took high in trial both days I believe and maybe high combined both days too. He scores on Sunday were a 199 and a 200. She definitely manages her warm ups and as I have had the chance to see also her exercise to exercise choreography as well. As an side my trainer has started using a lot of back chaining to tidy up parts of exercises that she is working to improve and has shown me how to use that method too. She learned how to make it effective from Petra.


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## mvhplank

Catherine, that sounds like a terrific opportunity! Yes, her handling is fantastic.


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## Click-N-Treat

So, I tried the suggestion of hand signals for command discrimination and verbal for drop on recall. Noelle did stand down sit followed by drop on recall. The expression on her face said, "Well, why didn't you tell me that before!" She absolutely understood the difference. I can make it even more clear by using pre-cues, and making command discrimination silent the whole time. A signal to stand, stay, down and sit, no words at all on that exercise. And then with the drop on recall, verbal all the way.

I read the article you shared with the interview with Petra Ford. Noelle likes clear cues and will check out on me if she's not sure what to do next. I think that's why Rally is such a good sport for her because it's constant communication and feedback.

I did discover, accidentally, that Noelle likes it when I say, "That was exactly what I wanted!" She just lit up and started prancing. If I give her a happy praise session between obedience exercises, she tunes in much better. Pre-cues are something I'm going to spend a lot of time working on. Being engaged and ready to work is something I struggle with.


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## Click-N-Treat

Today I taught manners and rally class. Before the manners class, I unlocked the building and spent 45 minutes in the ring with Noelle. My goal was simple. Mr. Fox is on a shelf. Do what I ask and we'll run back and play tug. On signals, Noelle crept forward on the down, but nailed the sit. We'll keep working on it. She finally sped up on the figure 8 and stayed right there with me. I was so pleased! She did well with Mr. Fox being on a shelf and not in my pocket. Next week, Mr. Fox will be outside of the ring. We need to practice that over and over until she understands that we do work in the ring and then have a party. Having a building to myself, and a ring to work in was amazing. Noelle went in her crate for a rest while I taught manners class. Quiet as a mouse in there. This new crate is working out great.

I was able to run rally three times. The first time Noelle was confused because we've never done rally in that space. The second time she was focused and in the game. The third time she was too tired. I really wore her out today. I think I'm gonna like my Sunday schedule. Work Noelle hard, put her in her crate, teach manners class, and then teach Rally. Right now I have only one Rally student, my boss. Which is pretty fun. She's all in on agility and hasn't done Rally with her dog before. With the virtual Rally titles being a possibility, she might as well work toward a title. We're going to add competition obedience as soon as we get a student to sign up.

I also got another new job last week teaching basic obedience class. And my obedience club finally reopened after coronavirus shut us down in March. Yay! Even better, I have an apprentice teacher in my ring at the club. She has great dog savvy, but more importantly, she has people savvy. Dog trainers don't teach dogs. Dog trainers teach people to train dogs. She grasped that immediately. We're gonna have a blast. 

2020 has been a downer in so many ways, but at least dog training is going up and up and up. And that makes me one happy Click-N-Treat.


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## mvhplank

What a lovely, positive report! Have fun teaching. 😁


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## Click-N-Treat

I had the training ring to myself again, so I worked on all the different parts of Open this morning. I made a discovery during drop on recall practice. The problem is never the recall front from a down. The problem is a speedy drop. So, split the criteria into just run and down. That was working better. Then I had a thought. I wondered what would happen if I clicked the drop and then got Mr. Fox and played tug? I got a lot faster response to the down and a super charged engaged dog. When I said down, Noelle flung herself into a down. Click! A few more weeks of come/down/click/Mr. Fox and I bet drop on recall will be her best exercise. 

I got some serious creeping on the down and sit during the signals. I may get out my plastic frame and have her do her stand/down/sit inside a frame for a while. Noelle lost her dumbbell over the jump and it went flying and made a loud noise. I set her back up and she set down her dumbbell and then jumped, because the noise was so scary. Uh oh. I sent her out a third time and she got it perfect. So, I got out Mr. Fox and made a huge show of how proud I was of her. 

Speaking of proud, we did rally this afternoon. A Master course. If you have Janice Dearth's Rally Course Book, it's the last course in the book.

Start
1. Spiral Right, Dog Outside
2. Halt, recall over jump, finish, about turn, forward
3. Halt, pivot left, forward
4. Backup three steps, right turn one or two steps, forward
5. Double left about turn
6. Halt dog circles right, sit
7. Stand Leave Dog two steps call to heel
8. Spiral left dog inside
9. Moving Stand walk around
10. Back up 3 steps
11. Halt pivot right halt
12. Double Left about turn, right turn
13. Dog spins right, forward
14. Halt 180 pivot left halt
15. Diagonal right
Finish

There are some tough signs in there. And Noelle drilled the backup three steps, turn and back up one more step. It was beautiful. Noelle usually goes sideways on the third step back, but this time she was straight and did a nice turn and back. We sailed through this course and it was fun and fast. The two spirals made it extra fun for Noelle. She really likes the spirals. Left about turns take a long time to learn, but once you have them under your own feet, they're so easy to cue. Noelle loves to pivot, too. This course was so much fun for her we'll set it up for Thursday rally as well. I'll substitute Novice signs a few places for my novice student. I'm always fair to my Novice students. The rest of my students are doing this course. Hopefully they have fun like we did. 

The hardest part is sign 14 was right in front of the jump. Noelle had to pay extra close attention and do a 180 degree pivot left and not jump. We ran the course four times. Noelle jumped once. Ha! A little too tempting. 

It was a good day of hard training. Noelle is tired. An hour of obedience, an hour in her crate while I taught manners, and 45 minutes of rally. She's tired! I'm tired, too.


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## lily cd re

Getting time like that is a treat, isn't it? I think it sounds like you had a great session, but also have a couple of suggestions. First is that it is a pretty sterile environment to train alone. I was out on my own on Saturday with both poodles. Lily served as a distractor for Javelin and things he did well with in our private lesson on Thursday were very hard for him. If I take just Javvy I play a CD of dog show sounds. Since the weather was nice I left the outer door open and just closed the wire gate. I use all of those challenges in varying combinations to put some proofing on the training. You can get CDs of dog show sounds from Max200 (I think). Definitely get your frame back out for those utility signals and don't ever let Noelle creep in. That will be the kiss of death in that class. You can use it all the way through in various ways and it you really want to fade it when you are close to ready to trial you can take away the side pieces and then also switch out the PVC for a paint stirring stick and since Noelle is smaller than Javelin you can even go down to something like a pencil.

That is really a challenging rally course and putting a non jump sign near a jump is something you can expect to see in master courses, aside from what the sign actually asks you to do it is an appropriate challenge of the team connection to push your handling to keep the dog from taking an off course jump.


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## Click-N-Treat

I'm okay with Sunday being quiet. We practice in a chaotic place on Thursdays, so she gets exposed to noise. And my students act as judges, which is helpful. When I get closer to a trial, I'll play that noise CD. That's a very good idea. For now, it's okay. I was considering entering an Open trial in November, but Noelle isn't ready. That long break from training between March and July really set us back. We're no where near ring ready.

I struggle with using props and getting rid of them. I always worry Noelle will learn how to do a skill with the prop, but not learn how to do it without it. One of my students uses a cone with the broad jump. She forgot to put the cone out, and her dog walked across the boards. Over and over he walked on the boards. Put the cone out, and he jumped just fine. The cone is a cue to jump, and now she is going to have to re-teach the broad jump. Which is why I never used a cone. I'll use my frame for signals as a reminder, and then get rid of it quickly. 

Competitive obedience is a puzzle to assemble. It seems like I get part of it, and then another part gets knocked on the floor. Will we ever compete? I don't know. We'll keep trying.


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## Skylar

Click-N-Treat said:


> Competitive obedience is a puzzle to assemble.


It certainly is. I have a creeper too and I’ve tried several things. Of course there’s no creep with her U in place....she’s scared of it and doesn’t want to touch it. A leash or something in front of her also blocks. I know people who have their dogs keep their front paws on a stick who swear it works.....when the stick is in place. On the advice of one of my trainers I tied Babykins leash to something so she couldn’t creep. That was a plan to stop creeping without having a prop in front of her. What I’m having some success is throwing her a treat reward behind her then giving her a release to get the treat. I’m trying to connect her thinking backwards and not thinking creeping forward with she lays down. It seems to be helpful. I got the idea from someone who was working her dog and the drop, when the dog dropped she threw a toy behind the dog as a reward. I agree with you, the problem is not the dog coming front from the down.


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## lily cd re

Yes when you use supports like a box for CD then you do have to fade it, but as I mentioned you can easily take it down to something very small like a pencil. For open commands as an example with Javelin he has crazy love for anything made of PVC. Those aids are very high value to him and I use them to teach, fade them and return them if needed to freshen something that starts to look sketchy. He doesn't need the frame for the A sequence of stand down sit if he is in a familiar place and a routine part of that place. I decided recently that I should move around the ring and he didn't know what to do until I put the frame back. As he gains understanding that he can do this in any ring and any part of any ring he will keep the three parts. Once he gains more proficiency I will take away the sides and then switch the 1/2" diameter front piece for a skinny piece of flat molding that contrasts then matches the color of the floor and then take that away. I will do the same thing with acquisition of the sequences for open B. 

Skylar releasing from the drop to something behind is another good way to stop the steps on the way to dropping. Actually a combination of these methods in a variable schedule is probably the best way to get a reliable no creeping steps from in the open recall, command discrimination and for utility signals.


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## Click-N-Treat

I can tell you I had great success with drop on recall by always throwing the treat behind Noelle. Her down is rock solid... once she lies down. The fiddly bit is between the recall and the drop. I'm getting a slow response to the drop cue, but a solid as a rock stay. "If you drop fast, we can play tug with Mr. Fox," has made her response a lot quicker. 

Interesting that doing the same exercise in a different part of the ring can throw a dog off kilter. I'll keep that in mind as I set up my ring for obedience on Thursday. The figure 8 can be somewhere else, the broad jump in a different place... It's a puzzle all right.


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## scooterscout99

Quick drop on recall is a problem here, too. I could try the favorite toy idea. Was thinking of scanning YouTube videos for ideas.

There were cleaners in my club on Sunday while we were practicing and it was a distraction. Hadn't thought about using a noise recording during practice.


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## lily cd re

I know Click would not be likely to do this and perhaps some others but I taught and reinforce excellent drops in all exercises where required with a bean bag. You have to condition the dog to understand it, but even seeing a ben bag in my hand is meaningful for getting a drop like a rock right there right now responses. If the dog doesn't respond then you release the bean bag in front of and just off to the side of the dog's path. You don't hit them with it but it an effective aversive (yes a P+ which I don't have a problem in using as long as the dog understands it and it doesn't hurt them).


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## Click-N-Treat

I think that method depends on how skittish your dog is. A bean bag is a lot nicer than a choke chain, which I know some people throw. Noelle would leave the ring and refuse to come back if I tossed anything. She's a microwaved marshmallow soft dog. When she dropped her dumbbell and it went flying into agility equipment, it made a huge bang. She high tailed it to the other side of the room. No wonder she set it down before jumping again. The amazing thing was it only took her one more try to get it right after that. Hang on to the dumbbell, girlie! Noelle is too skittish for that beanbag. 

There's a Fenzi course on drop on recall right now. Fenzi Dog Sports Academy - WW193: Sept. 13 - Teaching a Fun and Flashy Drop on Recall!


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## Skylar

Yikes. I think Babykins would be driving home before I even left the ring. She’s too sensitive, like Ms Noelle , a marshmallow. 

We have some new people/dogs in class and one of them was barking loud and sharply when we were tossing dumbbell on the flat.... groan, Babykins just stood like a statue and wouldn’t move. i realized that in obedience dogs rarely bark in class. We need work. Lots of it. we were doing distractions like crinkle treat bags and swinging toys, it that unexpected bark did us in.


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## Click-N-Treat

You can buy dog show sound effects from Pond 5. Dog Show Sound Effects ~ Royalty Free Dog Show Sounds | Pond5 You can also play this video while training. 



 There's some good background noises.


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## lily cd re

Click I think that it only taking one more time with the retrieve over the jump for Noelle means she is more resilient and perhaps a tougher marshmallow than you think she is. One of the things I love about working with Javelin is the ease of recovery from having odd things happen like ticking a jump, having the bar fall off or most especially when he pulled the handle of his flexi leash out of my had when he anticipated a retrieve over the jump and surprised me. The whole thing went flying out to the jump, crashed its way across the top board (very loud) and then hit him in the ribs quite hard by the handle. The people who saw it happened predicted it would be many weeks before I could get him over the jump again, let alone to do the retrieve. He was all over it and back over the jump with the flexi still in use in well under tem minutes. The onlookers both said none of their dogs would ever have shown such resilience. That is one brave and trusting boy I have there.


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## Click-N-Treat

We are making progress with drop on recall and command discrimination. I do have occasional creeping forward on the down from a stand, but far less than before. Telling Noelle, "Let's play the stand down sit game." or, "Let's play the down down down game." has helped. 

I stuck a push button target at the end of the broad jump. Noelle now jumps, runs to the button, presses it, and then comes front. OR... she completely ignores the jump and runs between the jump directly to me and sits in front. I think my standing sideways two feel away from the jump is throwing her off. Noelle doesn't have a clear understanding of the broad jump, yet.

I'm signing up for a few trials in November just to see where we need work. There aren't as many fun matches with covid, so my only option is to trial. We'll trial four times and see what happens. A title? Two legs? A leg? Four NQ's? All are possible, and all are ok with me. I have judges that I've shown to a bunch, which makes me feel confident that blowing it wouldn't be met with scorn. 

Noelle loves rally. Obedience makes her nervous. I think there's not enough feedback from me. So, I'll have to change what happens between exercises. A little praise and petting, and up beat happy prattle as we move around the ring. I want to see how that helps. I'm going to do an Open run through on Thursday. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## reraven123

lily cd re said:


> If the dog doesn't respond then you release the bean bag in front of and just off to the side of the dog's path. You don't hit them with it but it an effective aversive (yes a P+ which I don't have a problem in using as long as the dog understands it and it doesn't hurt them).


One instructor told me to toss my key ring with keys (we didn't have bean bags) at my Giant Schnauzer, he just calmly picked them up and brought them to me.


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## mvhplank

Oh, yes, happy talk between exercises does a lot to reassure a dog who might be feeling confident without other feedback during the exercise..

I've quit doing rigid warm-ups with Neely before entering the ring, and try to get him revved up instead. He likes it when I push his shoulder with my knee and say "roogie, roogie!" He also barks at that, so I have to be a little careful not to get that too much in the ring. But he's tended to be a laggy heeler, and if he's just had a fun silly time, I'm more likely to get heads-up, happy heeling, at least for a few minutes.

Regarding Drop on Recall, I changed my cue for Neely from a verbal "Down" to "LIE down." I think the extra syllable helped the meaning get through. I use the same for Hobbes who (against all my expectations) has already shown an ability to down on the recall. We're a long way from trialing in Open in any venue, so we just play with that periodically. He's a very, very different dog from Neely, and a very quick study.


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## Click-N-Treat

Fortunately both trial locations have a fun match the night before. So, I can take Noelle to the ring where we will be trialing and play with Mr. Fox. This is a new training place, but Mr. Fox is here, and we can have fun in here. I do have to get Noelle's engines going before going in the ring. Lots of tug and fun. Otherwise I get a blank stare and nervous scratching. This will be our first trial of 2020, so I have no idea how she will do.


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## mvhplank

Best of luck!


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## Click-N-Treat

On second thought... Noelle isn't ready to trial in Open. She still brings the dumbbell around the jump if I throw it poorly. Until we get that straightened out, we're in NQ land. Sometimes I think, yeah, she's got this. And then, whoops, nope, not really. I'm disappointed that 2020 is the lost year for trials, but I don't want to push Noelle to do something she's not ready for. Rally trials have been cancelled, so that's not happening. Perhaps this is for the best. Coronavirus is spiking again in my area. It's even more terrifying in Indiana, Wisconsin and Iowa, which are states I could travel to for trials. I could, but I won't. There is a whisper in my heart that says, "Stay close to home." I'm going to listen to that quiet voice. 

"By the pricking of my thumbs something wicked this way comes." William Shakespeare, Macbeth (Act IV, Scene 1)

Is anyone else feeling this?


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## scooterscout99

I feel the same about indoor trials now. Sure wish that we could go back to group classes as well but, under the circumstances, everyone's safety is more important. We have an NACSW nosework trial in Wisconsin at the end of the month and I've wondered if there will be additional restrictions with the uptick in cases. NACSW is super conservative, all dogs crate in cars and masks are mandatory when you're outside of your car. Only the judge, a timer and the competitor are in any interior search area at a time. I feel safe there. It behooves sponsoring organizations and competitors to be as safe as possible, if not for themselves, for others and the ability of trials to continue through the pandemic.


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## mvhplank

Click, I feel it too. Our club has been successfully holding small trials with strict mask requirements and sanitizing procedures. So far, so good. 

I've entered Hobbes in conformation in Virginia in early November, my first foray out of town since the pandemic started. This event is being held outdoors and no hanging around near the rings will be permitted. They're running two shows in sequence, with the idea in mind that you enter your class in ring 1, show 1, and then go straight to ring 2, show 2. If you don't get a best of breed or group 1, you go home!

Regarding the dumbbell problem, I found something helpful when I took an online dumbbell retrieve course from Debby Quigley. One of the exercises in the sequence is called "find the jump." 

This is a recall over the jump exercise where you gradually move the dog to either side of the jump (the handler should stay where the handler belongs, facing the middle of the jump, but as usual, I don't strictly follow directions). The object is to teach the dog to look for and take the jump when given the "over" command (or "jump," or your personal cue). It's also going to pay off for directed jumping.

After the dog can find the jump, then you set the dog up holding the dumbbell and call over the jump. Then you set the dumbbell out in various locations (starting out pretty easy) and send the dog for the dumbbell. Then the very last step is actually throwing the dumbbell.

I'm sure you could have puzzled all this out, but it was an "ah-ha!" moment for me to realize that I should break the exercise down in little components.

Marguerite & Da Boyz


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## Click-N-Treat

Ah ha! Yes, that's what I need to do. Thank you Marguerite! Noelle loves to jump. The problem is she's thrown off by the dumbbell being in the wrong place. If I can get the dumbbell to stick the landing, she's awesome. Trouble is, if the dumbbell is off sides, is it still a jump cue? 

I'm having a similar problem with the broad jump. If I am standing sideways, is it still a jump cue? Noelle sometimes cuts the corner on the broad jump, still. To which I say... Arrrrgh! 

Like I said, we're not ready. Noelle's heeling is snappy, though. And we finally have momentum on the figure 8. Signals we have sorted. Same with drop on recall. Stand/stay Get Your Leash is perfect. We could probably get a leg, might even get a title. But it'd be ugly and iffy. 

ScooterScout, think long and hard about that nose work trial in Wisconsin. Coronavirus is spreading off the charts in Wisconsin. They're adding a field hospital. It's not just the trial but the rest stops, restaurants, and hotels that are scary. 
One gross but useful tip is never stay in a space where a fart can linger. If there isn't enough air circulation to dissipate the smell, there isn't enough air circulation to remove virus particles either. 

Trialing is supposed to be fun, but there is something distinctly un-fun about worrying about health and safety.


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## mvhplank

Ah, the broad jump ... sigh. We NQ'd on that in our tiny UKC obedience trial last weekend. It was a pretty sucky weekend all around, Q-wise, with a combo of handler error and dog fuzzy-headedness. (I think ... I bathed and groomed him Friday and it was all downhill from there. He has Addison's and maybe I should have boosted his prednisone Friday to account for the stress.)

Plus, this particular judge puts a lot of pressure on the dog. We Q less often under him than the lady judges, and he's not close enough, geographically, to practice often with.


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## Skylar

Click, in my proofing class we throw our dumbbell badly everywhere - and I mean even to the side in front of the jump (not over the jump) so the dog learns that no matter where the dumbbell is they have to find the jump and jump back. 

We did two different things but they all end up back to the dog has to jump over to bring the dumbbell back to you. One way is to place the dog sitting with the dumbbell in the awkward position and recall over the jump and the other way to to start in proper position and toss or have someone place the dumbbell in the awkward position. The goal is to get the dog to jump over the jump with the dumbbell which means the handler moves into whatever position has the dog looking to you over the jump. If you threw too wide to the right, then move to the left of the jump. Handler can pat the jump to remind the dog, call the dog, cheer them on, clap your hands - what ever you physically need to do to get the dog to see the jump and come jump over to you.

For the broad jump, one of my trainers who is a judge always keeps the cone (or something) at the edge of the broad jump - always, the dogs never train at home or in the building without one. The only time they see the broad jump without a cone is in trial. She swears by this method. It makes sense that the dog has always jumped straight and doesn't learn to cut the corner. I have a different command for the broad jump than I do for the other jumps. I've also noticed some dogs do better when the handler doesn't look at them when giving the command.

In my proofing class, we don't always use a cone. We do things like toss the dumbbell so the dog jumps over and goes out for a retrieve which encourages them to jump straight. Some people toss food instead of a dumbbell - then the dog comes in front. One other game is we change position - sometimes higher up beyond the broad jump and sometimes near the middle or first board so the dog is learning to jump straight and then look for us.


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## lily cd re

First Click I understand the yearning to get out to trial. It has been a very challenging aspect of life since March to not be able to do so. We missed about 10 rally entries we would have done between late March and late August and probably would be done with the title by now had they happened. Now I am just hoping for enough pages on Lily's life calendar to get done before she decides to retire herself. I am fortunate that NY and NJ have pretty good policy coordination to have trials (small and modified for number of entries) that look like they are good to go. We have 2 days of AM/PM at one NJ club coming up and a number of others either on Long Island, Staten Island or in NJ that we will enter and hope for good scores in. But of course any or even all of those could disappear if we get new surges in COVID cases. I feel your desire to trial, but am glad tosee you are going to wait. You will be much happier to wait and fix those problems. If you go into a trial ring and Noelle makes a mistake that you can't then correct she will be rehearsing incorrect performances on those exercises and that is not a good idea. For proofing retrieves I threw my dumbbell all over the place.


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## Click-N-Treat

Thanks everybody. It's a sad feeling realizing we're not ready to trial. But, a relief at the same time. I want to walk into the ring confident that we're do well rather than hope for the best.


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## lily cd re

Click-N-Treat said:


> Thanks everybody. It's a sad feeling realizing we're not ready to trial. But, a relief at the same time. I want to walk into the ring confident that we're do well rather than hope for the best.


I think it is really important to go into trial rings knowing both you and your dog are confident. If you are wondering what Noelle will do then she will feel your concern and that will make her concerned and then you really won't know what will happen.


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## scooterscout99

LOL, Click, that's my analogy for people who don't understand aerosol spread! 

It's a 3-hour drive each way so I wouldn't stop or stay overnight in a hotel. I'll have to keep an eye on any restrictions for traveling from IL to WI, and back. Last time there was a risk of travel restrictions, the trial hosts were open about it with emails to entrants.


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## Carolinek

Click, your reference to “something wicked this way comes “ resonated with me. It’s exactly how I’m feeling. As we move back to indoor trials, I’m not sure they’re worth the risk this winter. NY is still in a good place, and people are adhering to masks in public places, but I’m sure we will also start to see a surge soon, especially with the holidays coming and family gatherings.

Catherine, I’ve also been keeping the larder full, I think it’s a survival instinct. I’ve been cooking meals that freeze well, and just froze probably 30 bags of chicken and bacon treats for the dogs.

It is disappointing when you have to back them off of trials. The older girls didn’t do well with outdoor trials and I made the decision to stop competing with them. I’ll reevaluate when the pandemic is over. They still go to class once a week. I had a period this summer where I had to back Gracie off from trialing as she was just rehearsing zoomies. We concentrated on obedience training for a few weeks and that was enough to break it, her focus is back now and zoomies appear to be a thing of the past.


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## Click-N-Treat

I set up the broad jump this week at class. I told Noelle to sit, walked to where I'm supposed to stand. I called, "Over!" Noelle bounded across the center of the broad jump, turned and hurried toward me. Then she side stepped and sat squarely in front. Yay! Another training facility. I set up the broad jump again. Noelle bounded, landed, side stepped, and sat directly in front. Success!

What did I do differently? I started using the broad jump in rally. Now it looks like a jump to Noelle and she understands what to do. Sure, we need a bazillion more repetitions, but that's fine. I'm just happy with her progress right now. Good on you, buddy. That's how it's done.


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## scooterscout99

Yea! Good job, Noelle.


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## lily cd re

Good job. Remember to move the broad jump around to different parts of the ring every time you put it out even in that same facility. That helps generalize almost as much as different buildings. Javelin does excellent open A sequence command discrimination in two parts of Deb's ring, but not other parts. So every time I set it up to do that activity I move where I leave him.


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle’s drop on recall works east to west, but not west to east. Funny how the environment gets encoded in with behavior. Move equipment, toss dumbbell different directions, make each training session different. We will keep working on it.


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## lily cd re

For sure there are all kinds of oddball things like your examples. Do go outs in all different directions too and vary which side of the ring the utility jumps are on too.


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## Carolinek

Good job Noelle!


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## Click-N-Treat

Going around the jump for the dumbbell and drop on recall remain our two big issues. If I plant the dumbbell perfectly, she goes over the jump perfectly. If I chuck it too far to the sides, she runs around the jump. I called her off her dumbbell once and now she's running out to her dumbbell and just standing there waiting. Face let me introduce you to my palm. Doh!


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## lily cd re

aybe do retrieve on the flat for a while to get her back onto the dumbbell pick up. Then place the dumbbell on the far side of the jump as if you did a perfect throw and send her. After that is solid then start moving the placed dumbbell off to one side bit by bit to get an offside throw part of the real world picture then do the same thing on the other side. If needs be place a piece of ring gate as a blocker against going around the jump as the dumbbell starts to become visible from her send spot. I haven't done any of that proofing with Javelin yet, but suspect I will end up on this plan soon. For lily at this point I can purposely throw all the way out behind the broad jump an othe far side of the ring and she knows the exercise so well that she would never think the exercise was supposed to be retrieve on the flat. It took a lot of proofing. I often make terrible throws.


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## Click-N-Treat

If the dumbbell is not thrown first, Noelle ignores it. Tossing it triggers the go and get it drive. She likes watching it sail through the air and gets revved up by the motion. I had good success with the dumbbell this week, but she still went around the jump once. 

Using ring gates is a great idea for Noelle. It only took about a week with a cone on the edge of the broad jump for her to figure out what I wanted. Now she sails across the center of the broad jump. It's very satisfying to see that make sense. I think proofing with ring gates around the jump will help. I can set it up as a chute and make it obvious what I want. Also, I can use ring gates to get Noelle lined up for the jump, and then gradually make my chute wider on the other side of the jump. Then I can toss my dumbbell like an uncoordinated fool and she'll understand what I want.

We are not showing in Open until Spring so I have lots of time to practice and get Noelle solid. In the meantime, I'm introducing Utility exercises so she doesn't get bored. I'm working on the go out by sending Noelle to a tap light. Run over, hit the button, sit. At 10 feet she is solid. At 15 feet she looks at me like, you want me to go where and do the what now? So, I need to slow down and make it easier.

When I was a utility steward I learned a whole lot. I saw dogs do a perfect go out to the ring gate, and then play hunt the treat. I know for a fact if there was ever a treat on the ring gate, I would be hosed. Sending her to a tap light, and then a poker chip, and then a piece of tape, and then nothing, will make it easer. I also know that directed jumping has nothing whatsoever to do with the go-out. Those are unrelated exercises. Leave the dog in a sit stay, then practice jumping. 

I think Utility is easier for Noelle to understand. She understands to get the correct glove, and get the correct dumbbells. She understands some other Utility exercises because of rally. She can either come to front or come directly to heel. Open is tough! Drop on recall remains a problem. Man, she comes flying and is at my feet in two seconds. You said come, and come means get to Mom like my tail is on fire. Wait, did you say down?

I tried using a target, but Noelle learned drop on recall as a proximity. Run to where the target used to be and lie down. If I say down six feet before the target, she lies down on the target spot. If I say down six feet after the target spot, she lies down where the target was, even though I haven't said anything. I tried moving the target so it was in different places. She didn't get it. My words or hand signals have no meaning whatsoever. She learned drop at location, not drop on command. Silly poodle!

We play the down, down, down game as a warm up. I throw a treat, she runs after it and turns back to me. As she's coming back, I call out, "Down!" Noelle lies down, I throw a treat behind her, and we do it again. After the warm up, if we do drop on recall I have a 90% chance she will lie down. But, I can't say, excuse me, Judge, would you mind if I threw some treats in the ring for while so we can rehearse drop on recall? Thank you ever so much. 

I did look at the judge's score sheet. It's NOT an NQ if the dog lays down at your feet. It's an epic point deduction, but not an NQ. We will keep working on it. And I'll keep facepalming a billion times. But, we'll get where we need to go.


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## lily cd re

It is a good idea to teach utility exercises along the way rather than after you finish with open. Javelin has worked exercises for all levels since he was two and we started working with Deb. She never lets any of her clients teach class by class and trial novice before doing any open, etc. Not that I could show him in either advanced class but he has good articles and goes outs, a nice broad jump and most other exercises, but a lot of them will need to get proofed after we get out of novice big time. The only things he really knows nothing about are drop on recall (although he knows how to drop, just not in context of recall) and moving stand for exam. I will wait until we are out of novice to teach those since I don't want to confuse him for the novice versions.

For you for drop on recall you might try heeling off leash and then getting just ahead of Noelle and turning towards her as you do so and give her a drop signal right there as she is moving to get her used to dropping quickly right as you give the order. I did that with Lily and also with Javelin. Both of them know to stop dead in their tracks and throw themselves on the floor when they see that signal flash. Don't teach it in a way where you know you are going to give away tons of points because she travels too far before dropping. And BTW I have seen NQs for dogs that dropped at their handler's feet. So I think some judges just take lots of points and some will give an NQ.


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## Click-N-Treat

Moving down is one of Noelle's best Rally signs. She folds herself flat and gives me a little grin. She likes running along side me and lying down. She loves all of the down signs in Rally. I think the recall cue is confusing her. Come means come at full speed. That's what I taught her and that's what she does. The idea there could be another cue in the middle doesn't compute. Tomorrow I'm going to try playing the treat throwing game, and add a recall/down. Combine the two actions: come/down, in the context of a game. No formal sit first, and no recall afterward. I haven't done that so I wonder if it will work. We'll also have some fun with go outs. 

We have all winter to work on this. It will just snap into place like a puzzle piece, just like the broad jump did. It might take a few months, but we have a few months. I can't tell you how satisfying it is to see Noelle take the center of the broad jump, run, turn and come square in front. I thought we would never get that. Once she understands what I want, Noelle gives me 100%. I love that about her.


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## lily cd re

I don't know if this would remotely be something that could work for you. For novice recalls I say front, then for open drop on recall I say come then drop then front. If my poodles here come they know it may not mean come to front whereas front is always for getting to front with no interruptions.


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## mvhplank

Hey Click,

I'm just getting caught up reading this thread. I'll throw something out there for you and you can use it or not.

When Hobbes first came to live with me, he would not sniff the dumbbell, look at it, taste it, nothing. He was 4 months old when I picked him up (and housebroken!) but didn't come from a performance breeder so we had a little catching up to do. 

So I signed up for a short Debby Quigley online class, "Retrieve on Flat & High Jump." It starts at the very baby basics, which worked well for us (you're past that stage, I think), but proposed an exercise later on called something like "find the jump." Start with the dog on one side of the jump, smack in the middle, and recall the dog over the jump. Then gradually move the dog to one side and then the other, so she has to angle a bit to get over the jump. Keep increasing the offset until you can call "over" or whatever your cue is and the dog looks for the jump and takes it. 

(Debby didn't say so specifically, but I can see this exercise evolving into directed jumping, and I've already started playing with that, with the jumps about 5-6 feet apart rather than 18-20 feet apart. We can expand the distance on "this one" versus "that one" as he continues training. We're working on a go-out separately, not incorporated with the send to jump part.)

The next step is to leave the dog holding the dumbbell and then calling her over the jump. After that, you place the dumbbell on the other side of the jump and send her for it. I notice you said she ignores a "dead" dumbbell, and that makes me think she'd have a hard time getting the concept of glove retrieves, which are also "dead." Hobbes and Neely don't care if the dumbbell is inanimate or not, and are happy to take a mark and fetch things--so I don't have any ideas about getting past that issue.

I'm not sure if you need this or not, but one other thing Debby insists on is that the dog look at you before being sent for the dumbbell. Like this: throw the dumbbell, wait for both the judge to say "send your dog" and for the dog to look up at you for permission. Then send the dog. She insists that this will save you from anticipation issues and will be your friend if you make a bad throw and the judge says "exercise finished." Then you break your dog off, play, and reset yourself.


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## Click-N-Treat

I set up the ring gates along side the high jump like a chute. I tossed my dumbbell over the jump and Noelle took the jump coming and going. So, I made the chute much wider. I tossed the dumbbell way too far to the right. It was something Noelle would have gone around the jump before. This time, she launched over the jump, got the dumbbell and jumped over again.

Having the ring gates along side the high jump was like, "Oh! So that's what you want me to do. I get it now." Winn the Newfoundland also found the gates helpful. Both dogs grabbed a clue and it was so satisfying to watch, just like putting a cone at the end of the broad jump. "Oh, so you want me to jump over the middle part, turn around and then sit in front? Oh! I get it."

Noelle did a lovely heel pattern, got lost for second on the figure 8, but found her way back to heel. Her figure 8 finally has speed on the outside turn which is nice to see.

I got two drop on recalls that were solid. I did not play the treat tossing warmup, either. I said, "Down," and watched the wheels in her head start turning. How do I slow down enough to drop? Oh, like this. She still looks like a cartoon dog careening out of control and flailing as she stops. I think it's the kind of thing that would make the right judge start laughing. It's not remotely graceful.

Stand, Noelle stands. I walk away. Down! Noelle lies down. I walk a farther away. Sit! No response. Insert swearing. Repeat. Stand, Noelle stands. I walk away. Down! Noelle lies down. I walk farther away. Sit! Snap up into a sit. That's the way you do it! Yay!

We are not trialing until March or April, so I have time to smooth out the wrinkles. But, we are getting somewhere. In 2021, I plan on practicing and trialing, practicing and trialing until we accidentally get three legs in Open, then it's on to... gasp, Utility.

Question: Is there a way to teach a dog how to come at a speed other than warp 9? Noelle builds up too much momentum and has no idea how to slow it down. It's very funny to watch as her eyes widen and she just cartoon dog tries to run in reverse, then drops. This is our drop on recall theme music. Help!


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## Click-N-Treat

I ordered new gloves for the directed retrieve. They are small enough to fit comfortably inside Noelle's mouth, and not any fun to shake. She runs out, grabs the glove and returns with it. That made me super happy. We also tried, for the very first time, the Utility signals exercise. Heel, stand stay, down, sit, come. She did fantastic. Granted, I was four feet away, but still, she understood what I wanted. We're on our way.


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## mvhplank

Fantastic! Four feet away is a great start. 

My mentor told me her method of teaching a go-out, if you want to explore that. Start out fairly close. Leave the dog and put a bit of cheese on top of the stanchion (she has flatcoats; for a shorter dog, you may want to adapt). Send the dog to the stanchion three times in a row, saying "take it" or "get it." Then, with no cheese, send the dog and when she gets there, say "sit." Gradually increase distance. Each time I go farther from the stanchion, I put cheese on it again, because anytime you change something, the dog sometimes acts like it's an entirely new exercise.

I wasn't 100% clear on the exercise from the dog's point of view, but Hobbes picked it up in short order. We've got a pretty reliable half-ring go-out, which we'll need in CDSP Open (and AKC Grad Open).

Not bad for a 14-month-old baby. LOVE this boy!

Marguerite


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle runs to a tap light and pushes the button, then sits. The tap light is getting smaller. Eventually, it will be a Post-it Note on the floor. Then nothing. She's getting it. 

Anyone know how to slow down a dog who runs too fast to drop on recall? As far as qualifying/not qualifying in Open, that's our biggest problem.


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## mvhplank

Click, that's just not a problem I've had. 

Maybe if you made her wonder what weird things you might do while she's on the way, she might not dash quite so fast. Like throw Mr. Fox off to one side or the other, or behind her. That's a game I might try up close to start--run three steps, then throw. Run 5 steps then throw. Run 2 steps and signal down. You're a heckuva trainer, I'll be interested in hearing what you figure out.

If you ever considered UKC obedience, the Utility class has consecutive recalls. Until Dec. 31, it's always a drop on recall, followed by leave your dog, return to the other end, and do a straight recall, scored as one exercise. As of the rule changes effective Jan. 1, the judge may sequence the exercise with the drop first or straight recall first. This will certainly reveal holes in training, where the dog thinks she knows what's coming next and doesn't listen or watch for the cues.


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## Click-N-Treat

Glad you haven't had that problem. Noelle comes in way too hot and has no idea where her brakes are. I was at a fun match. The judge told me call my dog. I called her. She signaled the down just as Noelle was about to sit in front. The judge was surprised. "I didn't expect her to be that fast." Exactly. Shoulda named her Rocket. 

I'll have to experiment with different things. I'll try playing with Mr. Fox. What a weird problem to have.


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## For Want of Poodle

Could you teach a different cue, that means come to me slowly? And teach it as approach a few steps at a time from a distance, then grow the number of steps? 

I'd hate to try and slow a flying recall.


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## Click-N-Treat

Yeah, I've been thinking about that. Walk on recall, not fired out of a canon on recall. That would be helpful. Perhaps if I walk backwards with her walking towards me, and start clicking that as a game it could help. Then give that behavior a new name, like "Here!" I need a new cue because obviously, "Come" means get to mom like her tail is on fire. 

But, would I be creating a new problem of slow recall? "Failure to come at a brisk trot or gallop," is points off. 
Then again, "Slow drop" and "slow response" are also points off. And anticipating the drop is an NQ. 

Maybe I'll just let her be a cartoon dog. I don't need to complicate things. I'll get a video of Noelle's drop on recall.


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## For Want of Poodle

I suspect you can probably teach her to go faster from a slow start easier than teaching her to go slower from a fast start. Annie would argue that a poodles natural speed is a brisk trot, so if I tried with her, and didn't insist on slow after the first session, she would speed up very quickly... Maybe a sort of red light /green light game? (Here, down, here, down, here - at mom, sit treat). 

I would LOVE to see a video of the current version!!!


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## Click-N-Treat

I'll get some video after the Thanksgiving break. You'll see what I mean about cartoon dog. I wonder what would happen if I asked for multiple downs on the way? I've never done that. We have practiced drop on recall thousands of times, but every time I ask, she looks at me in shock. "Mayday! Mayday! We're going down, Mayday! Maaaaaydaaaaaaaaaaay!!!" And then just crashes to the floor. It's utterly ridiculous. I'm surprised she doesn't bounce.


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## Fenris-wolf

Looking forward to the video of the S.S. Noelle😁


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## For Want of Poodle

I experimented with Annie last night since I have tried drop on recall before and she ignores me and j haven't ever pressed it. "Come means come, not flop on the ground, stupid human. I am busy RUNNING."

I chose a new cue, gestured her forward from a stay in something that looked similar to my come gesture, and tied in a command sounding word (she won't break the stay unless I use something that sounds like a command, but will break a stay even if she doesn't know what that command is). A couple steps towards me, head cocked. 'Human, I is confused'. Click treat thrown. Ask for down. Click treat. Used the same cue (come in another language I speak) couple steps forward. Down. Cue, arrived in front of me asked for sit. Repeat. Worst comes to worst, I haven't ruined her recall, but if my European relatives visit, they will be confused as to why she lies down when they call her. 

Anyway, seemed to work, though she did still walk forward a few steps after I asked for the down and the combined space of the living room and kitchen is still not much practice space. I should practice the cue as not always meaning you will have to lie down, as well. If I take her to the park, I will practice again.


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## mvhplank

For Want of Poodle said:


> Could you teach a different cue, that means come to me slowly? And teach it as approach a few steps at a time from a distance, then grow the number of steps?
> 
> I'd hate to try and slow a flying recall.


I don't think I'd try to slow it down as such, because she might generalize it to all returns to her person, and a laggy retrieve is not a thing of beauty.

I'd meditate on what Noelle thinks "come to me" means, which sounds like "get there as fast as I can" and find a way to cue "get there but be ready for something else."

Click, what would happen if you left her in a sit, and instead of cueing the "come," cue the "down" first, and then cue "come"? The maybe "come", two steps, "down," then Mr. Fox? I'm not sure I'd ask for more than one down after leaving the sit, but that might be what it takes to get her to moderate her speed. You don't want her to start anticipating a down, so some straight recalls need to be mixed into a session.

Keep us posted!

M


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## Click-N-Treat

It's a real puzzle, isn't it? Her recall is breathtaking. Her recall got us first place in Novice. That sling shot forward from a sit is one of my favorite things to watch. She launches to the gloves that way, to her dumbbells that way. Just kerpow, full speed ahead. So, maybe having her careen forward and just crash is something I can just keep as is? There are no style points in the AKC. Maybe the judge will crack up laughing. That's happened before!

Remember, I do rally for serious points. I do obedience as Q/NQ. I could get three scores of 170.5 and be perfectly satisfied with low dog in trial and a shiny new Open title.


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## mvhplank

Oh, yes, I've amused more than one judge, though it's not enough to save a Q if I didn't earn it. 

By the way Neely's first Q for his Preferred Utility title was exactly 170, and I was beyond thankful for it.

And if the dog isn't having fun, then you're not going to have fun either, and in that case, why do it?


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## lily cd re

I think I already talked about this, but just in case I didn't and to accomodate Marguerite's idea on different cues and such...I would not try to slow her down. I know too many judges that tend to be picky in wanting brisk recalls and retrieve returns. I would not try to slow a recall down since it is too easy to wreck your retrieves by so doing. I much prefer using two orders. Come means come towards me until I tell you something else (particularly drop) and front means come sit in front of me. So my orders for drop on recall are wait (then I will leave), come, drop and then front then finish.


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## mvhplank

lily cd re said:


> <snip> I much prefer using two orders. Come means come towards me until I tell you something else (particularly drop) and front means come sit in front of me. So my orders for drop on recall are wait (then I will leave), come, drop and then front then finish.


That's exactly what I do. In UKC's consecutive recall, it's wait, come, lie down, front; then in the straight recall, it's wait, front. I started using "lie down" (e.g., LIE down) when it felt like he wasn't hearing/responding to just "down" and didn't always see a signal. My theory is that he starts to listen on the first word, and then hears the order on the second word.


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## Click-N-Treat

Come means, you will be lying down, listen for the drop. Front means come sit in front. I use both these cues. Noelle still thinks come and front both mean put on rocket boots.


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## lily cd re

That isn't a problem as long as she drops promptly. Some people I know will tell a judge their dog is a fast recaller so they give an early signal. I don't particularly think it is such a good idea to call out "special attention" issues though.


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## Click-N-Treat

I don't want to tell the judge she recalls fast. That's on the judge to figure out. And you are so right, why point things out that they should pay extra attention to? They pay too much attention as it is! LOL!


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## Skylar

I think that super speedy recall is a poodle thing. People always remark on Babykins recall too. She has to be careful with her timing and the floor surface to make sure she doesn’t slam into me.

If she drops properly, don’t slow her down: she’s performing the exercise properly. The judges are looking for a quick response. Many dogs tend to want to drop close to their handler and often creep forward or are slow to drop far away. When you get the signal to drop, Noelle will naturally be close to you and won’t feel the need to creep forward.


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## Click-N-Treat

The other problem I have with drop on recall is she gets it confused with Command Discrimination so I don't want to make those any more similar than they already are. Noelle doesn't creep forward on the down because I always reward her by throwing a treat behind her. She just does a weird skipping hop move in an attempt to slow down, drops and stays put, waiting for me to throw a treat. If I call, "Front!" she comes flying and sits in front. I guess it's OK. Sometimes I worry about perfection too much. I have an image in my mind of what it should look like.


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## mvhplank

Skylar said:


> I think that super speedy recall is a poodle thing. People always remark on Babykins recall too. She has to be careful with her timing and the floor surface to make sure she doesn’t slam into me. <snip>


Uh, yeah. Here's Neely's first AKC Novice Q. It should be cued up to start just before the recall.


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## Click-N-Treat

All right, my husband thought about our drop on recall problem and figured it out. The cue, "Come!" means get to Mom ASAP. In the yard, when I call, "Noelle, come!" she comes flying directly to me. She's had thousands of repetitions of come at full speed. What Noelle needed is cue that means, you're going to lie down soon, listen for the drop. He came up with, "Here!" and "Spot!" And make sure to emphasize the OT sound. None of our other cues have that OT sharp sound. 

Today, I worked the Spot cue first. Noelle already knows go to a target and lie down on it, so teaching her that "Spot" meant flop on a target was easy. We repeated that a few times. I tossed a treat so she would be farther away from me. "Here! Spot!" Noelle trotted to the target on the floor and laid down. I moved the target around and moved her around the room. Here! Spot! 

Finally, I put Noelle in a sit/stay. I walked to the other side of the room. I called, "Here!" and then, "Spot!" She trotted to the target and laid down on her spot. The important thing is the "Here" cue means trot, not sprint. And the "Here" cue does not mean come to me, and never has. "Here" cue means go from where you are to your Spot. By backchaining the Spot to lie down first, and then adding Here, Noelle is getting a better understanding of what I want. I faded the target and she still understood what I wanted. I got several successes today with that combo. Sit/Wait/Here/Spot/Front!

If any of you have a dog who races 100 miles an hour on recall, and then lies down way too late, a cue transfer is a game changer. We need about a thousand repetitions before she'll be solid, but there's real progress. I'm super happy. 

As far as Open goes...

Heel and figure 8: Show ready.
Command discrimination Stand/Down/Sit: She is creeping forward on the down.
Drop on recall: new cue needs practice
Retrieve on the Flat: Show ready
Retrieve over a high jump: still using gates, but huge strides
Broad Jump: Show ready
Stand Stay/Get your Leash: Show ready

I'm going to enter obedience shows in the spring, and you know what? We just might qualify. Onward!


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## mvhplank

Re creeping up... I just watched some Christine Zinsky (sp?) YouTube videos on starting to train signals. She uses a PVC box or bar to mark the place to stay behind when changing positions. I like the way she helps the dog be successful while making very clear to the dog what is correct.


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## Click-N-Treat

I've watched a whole lot of her videos. She does a nice job of breaking it down for her dogs. And I like how she praises her dogs. So much happiness in her voice. I will back up to using my PVC pipe box for Noelle. I need to help her know this is a different exercise from drop on recall. They are so similar. Open is hard!


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## lily cd re

Brilliant husband thinking! Why didn't we all think of changing the orders weeks and weeks ago???


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## Click-N-Treat

Sometimes changing orders, or gestures, can clarify things. I think I forget that judges don’t score our word choices. Here, linked with Spot, makes drop on recall way more clear for Noelle. Now I have to fade the target quickly, so she doesn’t fix the target into the final behavior. I will use Post-It notes and make them smaller. The trap I need to avoid is Noelle looking for a target instead of lying down on cue. The longer I use a target, the more likely that will happen. I also need to put the target in different places so she doesn’t fix the drop as a location. A whole lot can go wrong with drop on recall. It’s a busy exercise.

Backchaining drop on recall helped a lot. Train the down part. Train the move to down part. Train the sit/stay move to down part. Then put the puzzle together into the full behavior. I am excited seeing understanding dawn for Noelle. That was our hardest exercise and she is getting it. Wow! Onward!


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## Skylar

I trained Dolly to drop to a target and I probably did it too long - in class one day on recall she detoured to the right and downed on some dog fluff. Oops.


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## Click-N-Treat

That's exactly what I am trying to avoid! Sometimes, props get encoded into the entire behavior. Remove the prop and the behavior disappears. If your dog can do a broad jump with a cone at the end, but walks on the boards if the cone isn't there, the cone is now part of what a broad jump looks like. It's easy to accidentally train drop on recall as drop at location. Just like it's easy to train Utility go out as run to the gate and hunt for cheese.


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## lily cd re

Props can be a huge problem in go out too, so be careful with that as well! And yes drop on recall is a very busy exercise. I have heard from a number of very experienced handlers that they think is the exercise that earns more NQs than any other Open exercise.


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## Click-N-Treat

Props are a problem all the way around for Noelle. She learns what I want her to do, which is good, but the prop is encoded way faster than I think. We haven't practiced go outs enough for me to worry about that. When I get serious about training go outs, I think I'll start with Go Cone and sit, and then take the cone away and just say, "Go Gate" and see if she goes to where the cone was. Click and party. Go Gate and Go Wall would work as orders. 

Did you hear the AKC has permanently changed the figure 8 rules to using two cones and no more walking around stewards? Obedience: News and Updates – American Kennel Club This makes practicing figure 8 with cones much easier to transfer into the show ring. See the cones? Yep, you know what to do. And, no more stop and sniff the steward. I love that we get to practice what we will actually experience in the ring.


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## mvhplank

In an online course I took from Pamela Dennison, she treated props as almost a last resort and encouraged fading them as fast as possible. As a result, I resist using props, even when I probably should use them to build muscle memory.



Click-N-Treat said:


> Did you hear the AKC has permanently changed the figure 8 rules to using two cones and no more walking around stewards? Obedience: News and Updates – American Kennel Club This makes practicing figure 8 with cones much easier to transfer into the show ring. See the cones? Yep, you know what to do. And, no more stop and sniff the steward. I love that we get to practice what we will actually experience in the ring.


UKC just did a major overhaul of its obedience rules (after a similar makeover to Rally). Gone are the group stays, but the use of cones, bar stools, or chairs is just a temporary adaptation during the pandemic. 

In CDSP, the pandemic adaptation specifies that clean shirts must be draped on the back of chairs used as figure-8 posts to provide a level of distraction similar to live stewards. I expect live stewards will return, unless there are complaints about not having enough stewards to manage it. I find them a nuisance (the chairs) because they don't remove themselves from the ring, as a steward can, and you either futz around with moving them in and out or study the ring for an appropriate place to leave them for the whole class.

Marguerite


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## lily cd re

I did see those changes regarding the cones. For us that will be just fine. Javelin has great figure 8s no matter what we go around. I do think only cones is a good thing since it is very consistent. I think judges are adept at designing heeling patterns and such that can have the cones stay out. Then the cones are a proof during other exercises against smartie pants dogs who see them and say "look mom cones, I wanna go do figure 8 please!"


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## Click-N-Treat

I always train heeling with the cones out. Noelle hasn’t decided to do figure 8 without me. There are several local trials in early January. I am tempted to go just to see where the training holes are. There aren’t any fun matches anymore. So, I can treat these like diagnostic trials. Thoughts?


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> I always train heeling with the cones out. Noelle hasn’t decided to do figure 8 without me. There are several local trials in early January. I am tempted to go just to see where the training holes are. There aren’t any fun matches anymore. So, I can treat these like diagnostic trials. Thoughts?


Well, are you disciplined enough to be willing to throw out a possible Q in order to "fix" something? Too often, I'm not, and my trainer has warned me about that. 

I once saw a multi-OTCH handler go into the Open ring with her young Golden Retriever. The first exercise was the broad jump (it must have been Order 2). The handler did not like how the young dog performed that first exercise, so she looked at the judge and said, "Thank you, I'd like to be excused." She walked out of the ring with the dog and (no doubt) did some serious training out in a field somewhere before returning the next day. She is not an abusive trainer at all, but has very high expectations and standards. Actually, I think that was the dog that finished an OTCH and then more recently, Senior Hunter. She has her sights on Master Hunter next.

Marguerite


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## Click-N-Treat

Basically, I would think of it as a run through, going start to finish, just to see where we need to work. I’d be going to fun matches at this phase of training, if there were fun matches. Since there are no fun matches, this is my only option.


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## Skylar

Yes, I knew they had changed to cones - doesn't bother us either. In class we had trained with both. It will make it a little easier when holding a trial not to have to have 2 stewards run into the ring.

My AKC club is doing fun matches by appointment - you have the choice to have a judge in the ring with you or not - No one else is inside the building. They just started this. I thought it was a smart plan. Shame Click you don't have this option.


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## mvhplank

We've had more chances to do CDSP obedience since the pandemic started, mostly because the trials are small enough to be held even under restrictions and often day-of-show spots are available. The venue is a bit more relaxed than AKC and is already more like a match, so I plan to stay there with young Hobbes while he's learning to be an obedience dog. Eventually we'll be able to wean off prompts and praise during a performance and be ready to give AKC a try. We have time, as I try to keep telling myself.


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## Click-N-Treat

The nearest CDSP trial for me is in Minnesota. Illinois is buttoned down pretty tightly right now. My own AKC club closed in early November. It's hard right now.


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> The nearest CDSP trial for me is in Minnesota. Illinois is buttoned down pretty tightly right now. My own AKC club closed in early November. It's hard right now.


Yeah, you said before you didn't have any handy CDSP options. Everything is buttoned down pretty tightly here, too. However, there have been some one-ring, one-judge AKC rally trials around here, but nothing like that for obedience. 

Our club's upcoming January CDSP trials are changing the run format. In a 4-trial weekend, we generally have all classes in trial 1 followed by all classes in trial 2. That might end up being 50 or 60 runs for the day. But people sit around waiting for their turn in the next trial and we're limited by indoor capacity.

What we're planning to do is "weave" trials 1 and 2 together. Judge A will run all the Starter Novice dogs in Trial 1, followed by Judge B running all the Starter Novice dogs in Trial 2. Then the Starter Novice dogs are done for the day and can go home. Then they'll do the same thing for Novice, then Open, and so on.

Normally, trials will run high classes (Utility) down to the beginner classes, but if we weave the trials together while running high to low, someone who wanted to move up a level after titling in Trial 1 would be unable to do so because that class had already been judged.

Can you tell that I'm often the trial secretary? So many things to keep track of!


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## Skylar

Ive been to trials like that where they nest them, I love that kind of trial. Moving up is not an option because ours are always run Utility down to Beginner Novice.


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## mvhplank

Skylar said:


> Ive been to trials like that where they nest them, I love that kind of trial. Moving up is not an option because ours are always run Utility down to Beginner Novice.


CDSP doesn't have a rule that we have to run high-to-low, so my suggestion (since I might want to move my boy up) was to run low-to-high. Actually, CDSP does have a rule that you must move up to a higher level or to the same level's C class when your records indicate you have titled. That could be accomplished in the high-to-low order, but sometimes you just want to see what you've got and where the holes are at the next level. It's in my own interest, I know, but I'm putting together the premium and I'm getting buy-in from the judges and committee, so I'm not just ramming it through. In fact, they've been doing something similar in the scent trials for the same reason--get folks done and gone.


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## Click-N-Treat

Ok, this is a new one. Noelle has always had bomb proof stays. When Noelle was about six-months-old, we were in a training class. I told her to sit and stay. She sat and stayed. Four dogs broke their stays and ran around the room. Noelle remained still. Stay just isn't something I had to train. Um, until now. Suddenly, Noelle has completely forgotten how to stay. 

I tell her to stay, give a hand signal, step off on my right foot, and... who is trotting behind me? Noelle, that's who. I gotta fix that. I think what happened is I took stay for granted and rarely reinforced it. Noelle is definitely feeling confused between Command Discrimination and Drop on Recall. So, she's hedging her bets by following me when I walk away, and then, lying down and wagging her tail.

Look, I'm down. I'm a good girl, right?

Poor dog is confused and she's trying really hard. I've decided not to enter the January trials. Even though I really want to trial, she's not there yet. There is a rally trial, though. Finally! A rally trial in Illinois not too far from my house. And with a judge I like. So, we're gonna do that instead. Obedience will come if I am patient with Noelle and myself. Open is hard!


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## Click-N-Treat

Update on Open progress. 

Heeling is smooth and connected. She speeds up on the outside turn on the figure 8 as well. 

Noelle is anticipating the sit in Command Discrimination. This made me very happy because it shows me Noelle understands what I want her to do, just not when I want her to do it. This is a huge improvement over the blank stare 30 feet away. You want me to do the what now? By anticipating, Noelle is telling me, "First I stands, next I downs, then I sits." Thank goodness!

She understands the behavior chain, just not when to perform it. The when puzzle piece is far easier to fix. I don't click if she anticipates. Quietly go back and restart. Click the correct choices. I also learned that Noelle anticipates the next thing I say after the down is a sit cue. So, I'm not saying a word. Just walking to my 30 foot spot, turning in place, and giving her a sit cue. Down cue is with my right hand. Sit cue is with my left hand. I've made that clear. That's coming along nicely. 

Drop on Recall with Here and Spot as cues is fantastic. I'm alternating using a target and without a target. Instead of doing a crash landing at my feet, Noelle slows with a hop or two and then lies down. By changing the cues, Noelle is no longer thinking, "I'll lie down when I'm finished coming when called." She's thinking, I go to my spot place and down when Mom says spot. Which is exactly right! 

Retrieve on the flat...

Throw it... Send your dog. "Noelle, get!" Noelle races toward the dumbbell and finds something very interesting on the floor to sniff, wanders around sniffing the floor, forgets the dumbbell. Facepalm! I am going to start trading the dumbbell for Mr. Fox instead of a treat. That ought to increase her motivation. Also, practice once per training session so it doesn't get boring.

Retrieve over a jump. I've discovered a handler error. If I say, "Noelle, over!" She jumps over the jump, runs to the dumbbell and stares at me. Did you want me to get this thing, too? Watch me and learn stupid handler tricks! Let's try that again. "Noelle, get it!" Zoom, over the jump, grabs the dumbbell, zoom over the jump. Cues matter! If I plant it dead center, I've got a 99% success rate. If the dumbbell goes way too far left and right, I'm the dumbbell who can't throw. If I toss it badly, most of the time she jumps anyway, but not always. I need to put more practice into my throw to set her up for success.

Broad jump... Noelle, over. Boing over the center, turn and sit in front. Good girlie. No cone needed. Exactly what I want to see.

Stand stay get your leash... Noelle stand, stay. Doesn't move a hair. Return to the dog, exercise finished. 

My goal is to trial this spring with familiar judges so I won't mess up because I'm intimidated. We're very close to being trial ready.

As far as Utility...

I've introduced the MARK cue for getting the gloves. I need to go slowly and methodically on training the gloves. I've introduced the signals. Silent heeling was no problem. The signals are the same as Open A: Stand/Down/Sit with a recall gesture. Noelle is understanding hand signals very well. I think she finds them a little easier than Open because I only walk away once in Utility.

Scent articles are rock solid, and probably her favorite. At 20 feet, she gets the correct dumbbell first try 100% of the time.

I have introduced the moving stand for exam, but so far I'm the only one doing the examining. Fortunately for us, recall to finish is one of Noelle's favorite rally signs. I anticipate problems with standing still and not wanting to cuddle the judge.

I was sending Noelle to a tap button and then having her sit for the go out, but she kept lying down next to it. Instead I decided to use the cone from Rally. I did the Go Cone, sit game. Then I substituted the cue, "Go That-a-way!" Then I substituted a pop bottle for the cone. Go That-a-way, sit. Substituted a piece of blue tape, Go That-a-way, sit!" Then I removed the tape. "Go That-a-way, sit!" And she did it to a blank wall. Good girlie! Noelle is an intuitive good guesser, which makes training fun. That's why the here/spot combo worked so well. I'll add distance slowly until she sprints across the ring on my cue, "Go That-a-way!"

With directed jumping, we're just starting. I'm making huge gestures about which jump to take, and gradually fading my gestures. Noelle loves jumping and finds this straight forward so far. She's never taken the wrong jump. My goal is to keep it that way. I will not connect the go out with the jump for a long time.

I think Noelle can do this... someday. Onward!


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## mvhplank

Regarding off-center throws. The Debby Quigley online course I took on retrieving (because Hobbes wouldn't even sniff the dumbbell) teaches "find the jump" separately from the retrieve. It's useful because it also will apply to directed jumping. (I may have said this before in this thread.) Briefly, recall the dog over the jump from center, then off center, then more off center, so the dog understands the job is to go over the jump before returning to you. Then you can add the dumbbell, starting with a hold in different orientations to the jump, not a throw.


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## Click-N-Treat

If I throw it wrong, Noelle will go around the jump, get the dumbbell, and jump over on the way back. There's a mismatch here for sure. My best bet is to set her up for success. But we will keep training weird throws. I like the idea of standing off center. That makes sense. I could start off center and toss it off center, then move to the middle while she's retrieving. That could help her understand what I want. Jump first, then get the dumbbell, then jump back.


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> If I throw it wrong, Noelle will go around the jump, get the dumbbell, and jump over on the way back. There's a mismatch here for sure. My best bet is to set her up for success. But we will keep training weird throws. I like the idea of standing off center. That makes sense. I could start off center and toss it off center, then move to the middle while she's retrieving. That could help her understand what I want. Jump first, then get the dumbbell, then jump back.


I have observed the same thing. So my cue to retrieve over the jump is "over." I think you already said that "over" is a problem cue for Noelle. For my dog, I'd add "take it" and then another "over" until he understands each piece is part of the whole "over" command. In CDSP we can give extra cues for a point penalty vs an NQ and eventually they can be faded when the dog's understanding is solidified.

I think it's better for my young boy to get some extra instruction in the ring in this venue and wait to do AKC until he's solid in his performance--particularly heeling! I have so much fun training the "tricks" exercises (dumbbell, gloves, articles, recalls, and drops) that I neglect the exercise that always loses me points. Bad handler!


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## Skylar

Another thing I did was I have the jump placed in a narrow hallway between two rooms - there is no choice but to jump both over to retrieve and back to return. I think the repetition of having to jump reinforces the jump even if the throw is wonky.

All my throws are wonky. I once hit the dumbbell on the jump 6 times in a row - only I can do that. I practiced releasing it correctly.


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## Click-N-Treat

Training Noelle to get the dumbbell after a bad throw is one of the hardest parts of Open! Wait, nevermind. They're all hard parts. The leap from Novice to Open is enormous.


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## Click-N-Treat

Well... now I have a new problem. 

Noelle, get in. Noelle does a left finish and sits in heel.
Noelle, wait. I give a hand signal. Then I and step off on my right foot and walk to the end of the ring, and turn around and... 

Silent as a winter snow, Noelle crept behind me and walked across the ring with me. Surprise! Here I am, Mom.

WHAAAT! OMG, WHAT! 

Command Discrimination, same problem. Walking behind me... Surprise!!

There is a break in the behavior chain. To create a strong behavior chain, each behavior in the chain needs a strong reinforcement history. A drop on recall exercise is a long behavior chain.

Get in heel position>Sit>Offer attention on Ready cue>Stay>recall on Here cue>Down on Spot cue>Recall on Front cue>Recall to front position>Sit>Stay>Finish>Sit. 

Broken down, that's 12 behaviors with two different kinds of stay cues, one in front and one at heel, in a single behavior chain. Obviously, someone is making a mistake in our training and it's not Noelle. 

Why is Noelle breaking her stay before both Command Discrimination and Drop on Recall? I know that Noelle has difficulty telling the difference between these two exercises. I know that Noelle likes being right and takes pride in her correct choices. I think she's hedging her bets because she's not sure what I want.

How to fix a broken behavior chain? Isolate each cue. Create smaller chains. Back chain where possible. Or, in other words, back to kindergarten we go. This is heel position. This is a ready cue. This is a stay cue. Sit is one cue that I tend to take for granted and I don't reinforce it enough. I think my next few training sessions are going to focus on stationary behaviors. Sit stay. Stand stay. Down stay. I need to make this much easier. Poor Noelle is confused.


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## Click-N-Treat

Today Noelle did the best heeling pattern in her life. My friend Kristin was calling the pace changes. Noelle stayed right with me, non breaking eye contact, smoothly moving at my side. It was wonderful! One of those breathtaking dog training moments. She did a lovely retrieve on the flat, a solid retrieve over the high jump. Broad jump, boing, front. Drop on recall, Here/SPOT/Front worked flawlessly. Then we got to command discrimination.

Stand. She stood. Down, she crept forward, Sit, she sat. Kristin suggested adding a stay cue first, then asking for a down. I said stay, Noelle stayed. I said down, no creeping. We'll use that extra stay cue for the next 50 repetitions. Then I'll drop the stay cue, and see if she just downs in place. 

That was lovely! I felt like we were on the same wavelength in training today. We're getting close to trial ready with Open. Onward!


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## mvhplank

Wonderful!


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## Click-N-Treat

The next thing I have to build has nothing to do with the exercises themselves, but ring choreography. If anyone knows of a seminar or webinar focusing on ring choreography, can you let me know? Noelle scratches her neck, or drifts off mentally between exercises. I need to learn how to keep her engaged for the fiddly bits between "Exercise finished." and "Are you ready?" Until we have that ironed out, the exercises might be trial ready, but I'm not sure our teamwork is trial ready.


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## Liz

It's a joy to read your progress, Click.


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## lily cd re

Click, I hear you on that exercise to exercise part of things. When I take my training with my instructor we often spend about 15-30 minutes working on those parts of the routine. Javelin is not a dog that can show up at the trial and get in the ring while turning on a dime. He needs lots of warm up before the ring call and I also have to stay on top of him to get him from exercise to exercise. I plan to work him tomorrow and will probably spend at least half an hour working the choreography. It is slow going to see improvement, but I do by just stopping anytime he looks away and telling him that wasn't right then restarting. I still use a fair amount of treats but am careful not to use the treats to lure, but to reward really good executions of the correct behaviors. This part of the routine is the main thing keeping me from entering at this point, but I don't want to make tons of NQ donations to various clubs. I want to go in three times and Q, title and move on. I wish I had a magic suggestion, but I know that you know as much as I do that there is no such magic. If you think about Brenda Aloff (and many other stellar trainer/handlers) to adequately proof a behavior requires thousands of correct executions (no mistakes) in as many different places as possible. Matches go a long way down this road.


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## mvhplank

My instructor also says that in those times between "exercise finished" and "are you ready?" it is important to keep your dog engaged, but do so while moving to the next exercise. A steady nose touch to lead her to the next exercise will be scored as luring. But some happy "touch!" step step step "touch!" step step, "Oh look we're here at the next spot! Good girl!" You certainly may jolly her along verbally in between exercises, providing you can remember to only give necessary commands during the exercises.

But sheesh, be thankful you are not currently competing in UKC Utility. The ring is empty of equipment while you do signals, articles (one material), gloves (twice, in a baseball diamond pattern, which is the reason the jumps are out of the ring), and consecutive recalls (one drop, one straight). Then, before you can do the final exercise, you wait around while the stewards bring in the bar and high jumps and get them in place. Spend that time keeping the dog happy. Touch! Touch! Spin! Twirl! Set up, yes we're ready.


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## Skylar

I find I have to raise my energy level, I tell Babykins she did a good job, I give her a quick scratches or rumpling to physically keep connected as we walk to the next exercise. I walk with energy, I try to exude “fun” so she follows and is excited to set up. 

When we do the exercises, I look only at my dog and not the judge, but I do concentrate on what the judge is saying so my focus is divided and I’m stressed. In between exercises I focus 100%on my dog. 

I know someone who has trained her dog to stick to her index finger extended and in between exercises she sticks the finger out for her dog to follow it to the next set up position. She doesn’t speak or touch her dog.... just sticks her finger out. It works for her but it wouldn’t work for mine. I guess it’s luring but the judges never ding her. shes not holding her hand like she has a treat, and her other fingers not tucked into the palm, they are just held at a different angle.

I also see many people have their dogs spin after completing an exercise before the walk to the next to release energy. I don’t know if that has to be trained or if it’s a natural behavior. Babykins will spin on command for rally it she doesn’t seem to see it as fun. I see other dogs that love to spin and I think it’s a wonderful activity to do in between exercises.

I’m glad I don’t have to deal with that last step of waiting while the jumps are put in place In AKC. What a distraction!


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## lily cd re

You have to know your dog well for the training/development of your exercise to exercise movements. Javelin will spin but it makes him go into orbit so no spinning. He will do a nose touch but if I do too many he is back in orbit. There is a small sweet spot for him that keeps his attention but doesn't leave room for disconnecting. I put my left hand out just slightly forward of where he needs to be so he has to look up to stay with me and my pace has to be fast enough to keep him with me but not as fast as his heeling fast. And if I amble that will be the kiss of death. I think if I could read his mind he would be telling me I am boring and that I should step things up. He will grab my hand to get me going (not good) or he will take off to visit the judge (even more a not good).


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle clearly knows the exercises. What she doesn't know is what to do when it's not an exercise. The more I think about it, the fiddly bits are as much a part of a trial as chasing a dumbbell. So, I need to train a fiddly bit. Noelle is a worrier. The moment I take her leash off in the ring, she pauses to scratch. She is not itchy. She is stressed. I know this because I trained without a collar last Sunday and she still scratched her neck. 

Leash off, scratch, scratch, scratch... Noelle, get in. More scratching. More scratching. Noelle, get in... Noelle gets into heel position. This, my friends, is a behavior chain. Leash off-->Scratching-->ignore cue-->Scratching-->Work. How to rid myself of the scratching? 

P+ -- Firmly pull collar while she is scratching and tell her to stop.
P- -- Leave the ring while she is scratching and ignore her.
R- ?? (I never train in this quadrant. Removing unpleasant stimulus to increase behavior.)
R+ -- Train an alternative stress reliever behavior chain.

Likely outcome of P+. Noelle is unsure what to do and scratching to relieve stress. My yanking her collar and scolding her is going to increase stress and create a new displacement behavior, e.g. ring sniffing.

Likely outcome of P-. Noelle is unsure what to do and scratching to relieve stress. My leaving the ring will increase her stress. Same as before, new displacement behavior.

That leaves me with R+, as usual. When in doubt, reach for positive reinforcement. But, what do I positively reinforce? Noelle is always stressed and worried when we enter the ring, and she's unsure of herself in the fiddly bits. Tomorrow, I'm training what goes in the fiddly bits. A new behavior chain of enter the ring, leash off, *, finish left, heel three steps, sit. Same routine after each exercise. Exercise finished, praise and pat Noelle, ___*, finish left, heel three steps, sit. 

Tomorrow I'll see what fits in the blank. It must reduce stress by being fun, fast, and above all else, predictable. Humans and dogs alike find reassurance in the predictable. My dog deserves that reassurance. So do I.


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## scooterscout99

I vote for the R+ option! Could you insert small 'tricks' between exercises as a destresser? Hand touches, spins, something else?


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## reraven123

Don't give her the chance to stress. Pair removing the leash with a piece of chicken. Pop it in her mouth as you unhook the leash and then immediately ask for a behavior that she enjoys. I know you are setting up to do something else, but I think you need to break the pattern of whatever is stressing her by making what comes right after removing the leash into a good thing.


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## Click-N-Treat

I think the only way I could prevent Noelle from stressing is to leave her at home. I've paired food with leash removal. Toys with leash removal. Tricks with leash removal. She ignores what I have, because scratching is more high value than anything I have to offer. At this point, I am considering putting scratching on cue. 

You know how we train dogs the look at that, game? LAT reinforces the dog for looking at a distracting thing, while simultaneously redirecting attention back to handler. The brilliance of this game is not lost on me. Instead of pulling the dog away, ordering the dog to pay attention, LAT flips the rules. The dog most desires to look at the distraction. By reinforcing the LAT cue, the dog wins by doing what she most desired to do in the first place. Yet, at the same time, the connection between dog and handler remains unbroken. 

If scratching is a clickable trick, it can serve two purposes simultaneously: stress relief, yes, but we're still connected because I asked for a trick. I reinforce her for doing what she most desires in the first place. Any time I can figure out how to flow with what Noelle is doing is a win for both of us. Right now, I feel like we're on different wavelengths. I keep trying to get her to tune into mine. I wonder what would happen if I tuned in to Noelle's wavelength?


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## Skylar

Click, how do you reach for her leash? Most people competing just reach down to the collar and fumble their hands around trying to fin the hook to release.

One of my trainers taught use to run our hand down the leash smoothly to the hook. if you aren’t doing this, maybe it can be part of the change?


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle, sit. 
I'm sitting square in heel.
Noelle, wait.
I'm waiting.
Dumbbell toss.
Noelle, get!
Dumbbell! My favorite! Whee! I'm running like my tail is on fire to the dumbbell. And now that I'm close enough to lick the dumbbell I... sniff the floor. I think there was a boxer here. Oh, and a corgi. Hmm, this smells like a... a... is that a Bouvier des Flandres? Let me check. Yes, it really is a Bouvier des Flandres.

Facepalm! 

She started doing this about a month ago and her retrieves gradually got slower, and slower, and slower and... facepalm. I've got some ideas how to fix this. We're training in the morning. I'll keep you posted.


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## scooterscout99

Sorry, this post made me laugh! Noelle is a natural nosework dog.


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## Skylar

scooterscout99 said:


> Sorry, this post made me laugh! Noelle is a natural nosework dog.


haha, you might as well join us in the nosework fun.

There’s a game you can play that might fix this. I used it to get Babykins to stop pawing at the dumbbell when I wanted her to pick it up immediately in her mouth to return. Have Noelle sit at heel. Toss a treat. I trained Babykins to look at me after I toss the dumbbell before I send her, so I expect this same behavior for tossed treats, but you do what your routine is. Send Noelle for the treat then call her front and finish her. Repeat the food toss, send, front to finish. Toss your dumbbell. Running out for food has refocused Noelle to run out, put something in her mouth and return.


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## Click-N-Treat

Today I remembered that Noelle is a play driven dog. I engaged her play drive the entire time we were in the ring. One of Noelle's favorite games is dog shoving. One hand on her chest, give a gentle push. She jumps backward, and comes charging back for more. Then we did a heel pattern. And I rewarded her with dog shoving. One hearty shove, and more heeling. She had a ball. Noelle loves to heel.

Then I got out the dumbbell. My criteria was the retrieve, so I dropped the requirements for a square sit and a smooth hand off. I just threw it, and she ran toward it and... sniffed the floor. Facepalm. How can I make this more fun? Next throw, I held her back and roughhoused with her, preventing her from getting it. Then I released her. Bam! Straight for the dumbbell, grab, and bring back. She came flying! Tail waving. Just pure joy. So, we did that again. The more I played, the quicker she brought it back.

I finally put the pieces together and figured out what went wrong with my training plan. I have been a fun vacuum! FACEPALM! I've been focused on getting everything square and pretty. I forgot about fun and happy. No wonder Noelle is scratching her ear and sniffing the floor. Who wants to work with a fun vacuum? I've been sucking all the fun out of our relationship by setting higher and higher expectations. I need to fix our relationship in the ring first, and then work on perfecting exercises.

Will we get square sits and pretty heeling? Yes, of course we will. But, I need to sprinkle high expectations in with fun. Say we're doing dumbbell fetches. We can work in groups of five. First two, throw the dumbbell, don't let her go get it, roughhouse and release. Third, AKC regulation retrieve on the flat. Last two, roughhouse again. We'll keep that pattern until she's joyful about the dumbbell. Then, our first one will be AKC regulation and the last four pure play. Then I'll switch it to formal, play, formal, play. That way, the playful toss is reinforcing the formal exercise. 

Ear scratching and ring sniffing are signs Noelle is unhappy about something. I never considered she was unhappy with... me. Sorry, Noelle. Sorry, friend. Forgive me.


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## PeggyTheParti

Dog shoving lol! Love it. Congrats on the breakthrough.


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## mvhplank

[Edit] Your reply above posted as I was writing my answer below. Congratulations! Play is clearly important to her!

******

As it happens, we were practicing retrieves with Hobbes in class on Friday. The students who hadn't gotten started yet were shaping the sniff, take, and hold. Hobbes has passed that point, so his assignment was to go out a very short distance to fetch the dumbbell (placed, not thrown). But there was an open paper bowl with a piece of hot dog in it about 3 feet to the left of his dumbbell.

I did need to redirect him a few times, but after several repetitions and successively moving the dumbbell a little closer to the dish, he successfully brought it back when it was placed immediately next to the dish. Then to end that session, I did not send him to the dish but picked it up and handed him the hot dog from it.

I was talking to a friend (obedience judging mentor and owner of a succession of flatcoats), who said she has proofed scent articles with a treat inside a tea strainer placed in the middle of the pile.

If I were to work on the sniffing issue, I would approach it as not a training issue but a proofing issue. Her sniffing might be her way of showing she's feeling pressured and doesn't quite have confidence to finish the job.

Here's what I'd try, especially since I've been learning more and more while training the new guy ...

Start much closer to you with short throws or place the dumbbell. Build confidence in the task at hand without the pressure of distance from you.
Consider changing the cue. This one seems to mean "go way out to the dumbbell and sniff the floor."
Change locations frequently, not just in a training ring--garage, parking lot, parks, hallways, stairwells, whatever is safe and available. Use a flexi for safety if the space is wide open.
Place smelly distractions in different locations near or along the path to the dumbbell.
Not just food, either, though outdoor locations will provide their own distractions.
Get a tissue and ask someone with a dog to let you rub its feet with it. Then place it out on the floor/dumbbell area.
Have another person scent a pen or pencil to put out as a distraction.
Dog toys that other dogs have slobbered on.

Jackpots for success (of course).
Slowly increase the distance to the dumbbell.


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## Click-N-Treat

Today at training Mr. Fox made an appearance. I forgot my training pouch in my car, and I only had a few minutes to train before my next class started. If Mr. Fox is the reinforcement, Noelle is 100% in the game. Dumbbell fetch went off without a hitch. Heel free, figure 8, command discrimination and drop on recall. Full on, fully engaged in the game. 

If I make it fun, Noelle is right there with me in everything. I've also discovered I can put Mr. Fox's severed tail in my mask, under my chin. Guess who makes continuous eye contact? Very handy for rally. Ha!


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## fjm

An unexpected bonus from wearing a mask!


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## Click-N-Treat

Mr. Fox is in my mask has certainly changed Noelle's attitude. Her flow in Rally was much better. She stopped to scratch less often. Obedience though... She blew me away. Dumbbell fetches were rocket fast both on the flat, and over a high jump. Broad jump, beautiful. Heeling, lovely and smooth. Figure 8, head up and connected, speeding up when she was on the outside. Command discrimination Stand/Down/Sit, perfection. Drop on recall, speedy and accurate.

Who are you and what have you done with Noelle?

It was very strange. I felt like I had someone else's trained dog in the ring with me, not my floor sniffing, scratching, distracted dog. Instead, she was just with me, over and over, doing what we practiced. I think by bringing Mr. Fox back into the picture, my reinforcement is worth working for. The funny thing is, though, during obedience, Mr. Fox wasn't even in the ring with us. She just connected with me and I connected with her. Today was fantastic. A few dozen more where that came from and we'll be trial ready for sure.


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## Skylar

Wow. How impressive. Good girl Noelle.


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## Asta's Mom

Noelle continues to amaze me - Terrific poodle & team. Glad you had Mr Fox with you.


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## Click-N-Treat

After we worked on directed retrieve with two gloves, left and right, I decided to see what would happen if I added the middle glove. I sent Noelle to glove one and she ignored the middle glove and got glove one. I sent her to glove three, and she got glove three. I sent her to the middle glove and she got the middle one. Clearly she understands the, "Get the glove mama is pointing at," game. Not only that, but she likes it!

Scent articles went well. She always gets the dumbbell I want, never the wrong one, never drops it, always brings it to front. However, yesterday she seemed like she was bored. I'll put them away for a few weeks and bring them back. I have to remember to consider her feelings. 

We worked on go outs, directed jumping, heeling, dumbbell retrieves... It was fun. I think we had a communication breakthrough a few weeks ago. I remembered to be more fun and less strict and formal. Noelle shuts down if I'm not any fun. Today on one of her dumbbell retrieves, I ran away from her and she chased me while carrying the dumbbell. I pretended I didn't want it, which made her more determined to bring it to me. Her tail was flying, always a good sign.

Noelle still stops and scratches during set up, though. I ask her to get into heel position, and she does, and sits square. Then she scratches her ear. Since she doesn't scratch obsessively outside of the ring, I am assuming it's a stress response. I wonder if I am not reinforcing set up well enough? I have a bad habit of treating getting into heel position like a pre-game warmup. It's not. Getting into heel position and sitting squarely is a behavior in and of itself. And I think I screwed that up by treating it as unimportant. I've loaded the word, "READY!" with boatloads of treats. So, when I say, "Ready!" she's staring at me. But, get into heel? I messed up somewhere. Noelle is letting me know something is bothering her.

Any ideas on how to fix the ear scratching? I'm willing to transfer cues, play with Mr. Fox, treat her with filet mignon, bring out sock puppets and hold a puppet show...


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## mashaphan

any and all of the above! We do "set up, YAY" release Treat it as a separate exercise(JMHO, we are no where near where Noelle and you are,but Otter bores easily)


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## lily cd re

As Martha (mashaphan) said treat set ups and your exercise to exercise moment as separately trainable exercises. Javelin and I are doing lots of that work lately! Don't rush to enter if she shows those stress signs in training. It will be worse in trials than in training or matches.


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## Click-N-Treat

You are absolutely right that trialing with the ear scratching issue will just make it worse. Noelle likes games. Do you have a get into heel position game?


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## mvhplank

You might try teaching her a flashy "flip" finish followed by a repeated nose to hand (touch-touch-touch) and then you do a happy dance. 

You could also get in front of a mirror so you can work on a "watch" duration when you don't have eye contact (one-way attention), like when you set up before starting an exercise. You reward duration.

I don't know how she would accept teasing, but an online class I'm in suggests a "you missed it" game: When she scratches or her attention wanders to somewhere else in the room, drop a treat or toy in front of you but get to it before she can. "Oh! What happened? You missed it!" followed by what the instructor calls Krazy Kookie, have Noelle chase a treat or toy in your hand and after a few moments let her catch it. The instructor, Debby Quigley, emphasizes engagement first before you work on precision.


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## lily cd re

I use a release where Javelin is invited to "give a hug" before setting back up at heel. It is basically a jump up and is about all the excitement we can introduce and still get him to collect and reset. I practice "exercise finished- jump up release-get close (heel position)" many times every day we train. I can take that into a trial ring which is why I do it.

I also always have an eye on the dog when they return to heel to go to the next exercise. My trainer (and I agree fully) believes that if you expect attention from the dog you have to support good attention by returning it. I never look at her if she is talking and Javelin is at heel ready to work. I look at him clearly enough that he and I are having eye contact. Trainers, handlers and judges I know understand that you are not trying to ignore them. Instead you are supporting your dog.

If Noelle does her ear scratching and doesn't get to release her tension, what does she do next? For Lily if she doesn't get to let go of her stress sufficiently the next thing that happens after a big yawn or sneeze is that she takes off on me and tries to rally with the judge. You know what kind of a rabbit hole that leads down to (NQ).


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## For Want of Poodle

I have been doing a game with get into heel position. Not sure if it would be helpful. I saw a video where someone was using this to build engagement and focus to prepare for going in the ring and decided to try it. 

I have her going around me in clockwise circles while I step around and swivel my hips and arms like I am using a hula hoop to encourage her. Then freeze and "front!' poodle (hopefully) skids to a stop in the front. Around and around again 'place!' stops beside me. Its not producing spectacularly straight sits, and we look very silly, but Annie thinks it's a fun game, gives me lots of attention, and is getting better at distinguishing between the two words.


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## Click-N-Treat

After scratching, unless I am able to stop it, Noelle's nose finds the floor and she goes on a sniffing adventure. Scratching seems to happen when I leave her for drop on recall or command discrimination. I think my leaving makes her uncomfortable in some way. And scratching occurs during set up. 

Since Noelle stresses down, I'd like some kind of jumping up, but I don't know how to train it. I've seen the flashy flip finish where the dog jumps up and then sits. How is that trained? I think Noelle would love to learn how to jump up and touch my hand.


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## mvhplank

I thought I'd be able to find a video of how to teach a flip finish (with a jump) but didn't find anything I really liked. So I experimented with the boys a little bit at lunchtime. 

With a treat in my left hand (they already have a command for "get in" for heel position), I'd command the heel position at the same time I lured them up and back with a circular motion. I think with a little dog like Noelle it might be easier--I have deliberately avoided teaching a jump finish for fear these lugs would knock me off my feet!


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## Ava.

My flip to heel just sorta happened.. I guess my dog is just very exited about his heel.

I had the foundation of spin on him, which I think helped a lot! Somebody who has a dog who knows it, should record a video and post it here!


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## lily cd re

I think Betsy Scapicchio usually has her BCs and goldens do nice flying finishes. She has lots of videos so maybe look her up. She knows what she is doing, has lots of OTCh dogs.


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## mashaphan

i, too, think flipping is largely instinctive, but it can be taught. I have noticed that Otter jumps to front on Adv Call front if I make a "wilder" 'higher " motion with my signal than a more sedate one (terrible word picture, hope you understand) I had to teach am "arm's length" touch as Otter was dangerously close to breaking my nose, so that may have helped. I also try to keep him fairly excited during training.

Engagement is so key. i would love to have continual eye contact, but everything else is SO much more interesting than mom!


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## Click-N-Treat

I had zero luck teaching a leaping flip finish. I discovered Noelle doesn't jump with all four feet off the ground. It's just not something she likes to do. She'll give a lovely hug, but not a leap. 

Today I took Noelle to work. I teach manners class at 11:45 Sunday mornings, so getting to work at 10:30 gives me an empty building, empty ring, and loads of time. Thursday afternoons, we train in a ring with nose work classes happening on the opposite side of the ring gate. Nose work dogs are often reactive and barking, and there are a lot of people, and dogs in crates. It's chaotic like a trial. This way, Noelle practices obedience in a quiet room and a very loud one. Low distraction and high distraction is the best of both worlds. I use my quiet time to teach and my loud time to proof.

Anyhow, this morning, I decided to isolate scratching to see if I could figure out: 
A.) Exactly when it happens 
B.) The antecedents
C.) Alternative behavior

Noelle was on leash, offering attention before going in the ring. We went in the ring. I reached to take off Noelle's leash, and she scratched. Antecedents? Ring entry and leash removal. Consequence? We left the ring. Set up again, same thing ring entry, scratch, leave. We did that about four times. On the fifth try, I took Noelle's leash off without a scratching fit. I clicked and treated. A light went off inside her head. It was adorable. Oh, don't scratch! Okay.

We repeated this sequence. However, instead of clicking, I took off Noelle's leash and gave her neck and chest a scratch. Then I stroked her face. Then I asked if she was ready. She was, so we did some heeling. I learned a lot about my dog during this training session. Noelle appreciates a slower transition between sitting in heel position, and, "Are you ready?" Two or three seconds of chest scratching and face stroking, followed by my changing my stance into work position, made a huge impact. 

Today instead of scratching as a displacement behavior, she shook herself as if she was wet once, and then was ready to go. Given a choice between ring sniffing, scratching, and a quick full body shake, the full body shake is way better. "Shake it off," is a cue Noelle knows, too. Displacement behavior is how dogs communicate stress, so I think it's unfair to remove that communication. At the same time, it's unfair when I fail to acknowledge her stress and do what I can to head it off. The sequence of gentle scratching, face stroking, posture change, worked well. She didn't scratch during training. Now that I know that my change in behavior prevents scratching, I can incorporate it into our training. 

We were practicing fronts and finishes. Just to see what would happen, I decided to verbally tell her to finish and held my arms still. First time Noelle swung into heel, making a u-turn at my side. The second time, she backed into heel. The third time she finished right. I started laughing when she chose to finish right. I wasn't expecting that at all. I think Noelle was laughing, too. Three different ways to finish, all correct, and all three were Noelle's choice. That's a fun exercise. I suggest you try it with your dog. Showing off three ways to finish was the most poodle thing ever. Finish means this, and this, oh yeah, and this, too! 

I picked a different area of the ring to practice command discrimination. I have to work on anticipating the sit. I'm still happy she understands what comes next. It sure beats standing on the opposite side of the ring, calling out, "Sit!" and getting a blank stare. Honestly, she only anticipated once and I didn't reward it. Second time she got it perfect. We'll keep practicing. On Thursday, I deliberately set her up to do command discrimination beside the nose work ring gate, with her back to all the crates and people. She nailed it the first time. 

Last week, I introduced the middle glove. This week, all three gloves were out. I sent her to the left glove. She went to the middle glove. I put the middle glove back and said nothing. Set up again, again she grabbed the middle glove. Nothing happened. I put the glove back. I sent her to the left glove a third time. Third time she grabbed the left glove. Noelle won an extended tug time with Mr. Fox and a ton of praise. Next, I sent her to the right glove. No hesitation, directly to the right glove, party time again. I sent her to the middle glove. No hesitation, and another extended party time. We worked on gloves some more after that. She never got the wrong glove again. 

By making a massive reward out of the correct choice, and the wrong choice being silent and boring, she's making right choices faster. Behold the power of P-. Remove what the dog wants to decrease behavior. Noelle wants to play tug. Wrong choice, no Mr. Fox. Right choice, a whole lot of tug. It's false to say positive reinforcement trainers don't use punishment. During gloves, I punished Noelle a whole lot. It decreased picking up the wrong glove. It increased the speed of getting the right glove. I now have child sized gloves, which aren't any fun to shake. Obviously, I don't play tug with the glove. OMG, that would be a disaster with Noelle! She likes the glove exercise. I can tell because of the way she shoots out toward it at warp speed. I have not introduced glove turns. That will happen late spring, possibly early summer. Get the glove I am pointing at is far more important than the turns.

Noelle's drop on recall is far smoother since I changed cues. And her understanding of the broad jump is now solid. Her front is no longer crooked. I didn't do anything to fix her front. She just figured out what I wanted. And today I figured out what she wanted. Get into heel position, get a gentle scratch on the chest, around the collar, and behind the ears. Stroke her face gently. Stand tall, breathe. Wait for eye contact. "Ready!" This sequence is what Noelle needs. I'm glad I learned from her today. And three different ways to finish? Show off!


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle had her first Open run-through today. One of my rally students acted as judge. Mary knows her stuff when it comes to obedience and has shown through Utility. Very handy to have a student like that. Anyhoo... Noelle was a little laggy on heeling, did lovely about turns, got lost on the figure 8 and decided sniffing cones would be more interesting, and ended up on my right once. Facepalm. Ugly, a bazillion points off, but qualifying.

Command discrimination, stand, she stood. Down, she ignored the down cue, so I double cued her and NQ'd, nailed the sit, though. (Mary set Noelle up with the wide open ring gate behind her for maximum distraction. Hooray for Mary! Whoopsie for Noelle.)

Drop on recall. Flying forward, speedy drop (without a target! Yay!) came to front, beautiful finish.

Retrieve on the flat, raced out for the dumbbell, got it, raced back.

Retrieve over a high jump, boing, ran past Mary, got the dumbbell, jumped, came back.

Broad jump, cut the corner, WT*??? Came to front.

Stand stay get your leash. Stood, and stayed. 

Well, now I know what to practice on Sunday. Mary can do an Open run-through every Thursday. I hope we do better next week. I'm thinking about trialing in April, assuming I can find a Covid vaccine. Here in Illinois, I'm considered a frontline worker because I work in animal care. Our recent snow storms have slowed vaccine distribution to a crawl, unfortunately. Hopefully, by April I'm fully vaccinated and ready to rock. And hopefully by April Noelle will be ready to rock, too. CDX here we come.


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## Click-N-Treat

We brushed up on Command Discrimination and the broad jump. I'll see how that turns out during our Thursday run-through. Tonight I worked on stuff I take for granted: finding heel position, Ready and eye contact, and fronts. Noelle enjoyed it. Or, maybe she enjoyed that I had cheese. I made it fun by throwing cheese, turning my back and calling her to heel. Or, throwing cheese and calling her to front. 

Question, is it points off or an NQ if the dog cuts the corner on the broad jump? I'm trying to fix this. Most of the time she doesn't cut the corner, but if she did in a trial, is that an NQ?


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> /snip/
> Question, is it points off or an NQ if the dog cuts the corner on the broad jump? I'm trying to fix this. Most of the time she doesn't cut the corner, but if she did in a trial, is that an NQ?


If the dog cuts the corner so much that she doesn't clear the last board, it is not qualifying. If it's just off center, I wouldn't point it. I've been NQ'd when from my point of view the dog was just off center but the judge's opinion was that he didn't clear the last board. 

If it makes a difference to the dog, whether clearing the jump or coming to a straight front, you can place yourself anywhere between the first and last boards.


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## Click-N-Treat

She's landing a bit off center. I'll have to video it to see what's happening because I'm standing at the side and can't really see. She used to cut the corner quite badly, then stopped doing that and jumped across the center. But, Noelle can revert to something incorrect under stress, and the run through put her under stress.


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> She's landing a bit off center. I'll have to video it to see what's happening because I'm standing at the side and can't really see. She used to cut the corner quite badly, then stopped doing that and jumped across the center. But, Noelle can revert to something incorrect under stress, and the run through put her under stress.


Just taking the jump a little off center seems (to me, anyway) to lead to points off for crooked fronts rather than points off for not being centered. Cutting the corner is more binary--Q or NQ.

Good luck!


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## Click-N-Treat

I'll still try to clean it up. Definitely making a video for sure. She never steps between the jumps, always sails over it, but lands off center sometimes.


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## Skylar

That’s an interesting question and one that I realize never came up in my class where our trainers usually nitpicked about details like this.

I have seen dogs NQ for cutting the corner and it was clear their body didn’t completely sail over the last board. I’ve seen dogs NQ for walking on the boards which is an obvious no no.

From AKC “The principal features of this exercise are that the dog stay where left until directed to jump, that the dog clear the jump on a single command or signal, and that the dog return to its handler after it has jumped.” Maybe as long as the dog cleanly clears the boards it doesn’t matter where they land? In our class the focus was on that perfect front position and not cutting the corner.


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## Click-N-Treat

I carefully watched Noelle's flying leap over the broad jump. She lands off center, but clearly jumps all three boards, and comes to front straight. Whew.


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## mvhplank

Remember to proof with pressure, since that might result in cutting the corner in ring conditions.

Best of luck! Are there any trials on your calendar yet? I'm not planning to enter Neely in AKC any more, unless there's a club I want to support. I actually have a few more UKC obedience and rally opportunities at the moment. UKC added a Master class and three new champion levels with QQQs in Levels 2, 3, and Master. He seems to enjoy rally so I'll keep doing that with him. Neely and Hobbes both ended up on UKC's Rally All Stars list for 2020, so I'm very happy with what we were able to do during the pandemic year.


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## Click-N-Treat

There's a trial in late April I am considering. I'll be getting the Pfizer vaccine next Wednesday (YAY!) and fully vaccinated by the end of March. Late April gives me some time to go to a few fun matches, or drop in practice at a few clubs near me. Command discrimination remains the uh-oh. I deliberately set Noelle up to do drop on recall along the busy side of the ring gate yesterday. She knew exactly what I wanted and did it perfectly. But... refused to sit during command discrimination. I need to practice that more in different places. If she's gonna blow something during a trial, that would be what she screws up. On the plus side, Noelle did rally without stopping to scratch. We're getting somewhere.


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## Skylar

That sounds like a very smart plan. 

I found it interesting that the dogs in my class either had trouble laying down in the command discrimination (my problem with Babykins) or more commonly they had problem with the sit. No dog had a problem with both - it was one or the other. I can be anywhere in the room, any angle, off center and she will sit, but the laying down smartly was our problem. My trainer did say the sit was a more common problem but she didn't have any specific solutions except to keep practicing. Noelle is smart, she will get it.


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## Click-N-Treat

I think the problem with sit in general is I take it for granted and rarely remember to reinforce it. Front has a heavy reinforcement history. Heel, too. Plain vanilla sit? Not so much.

My Sunday plan is treat tossing and position changes. Sit, down, stand, front and heel. Should be a fun time. Less formal setups, more frolic, with the occasional formal run through sprinkled in.


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## mvhplank

Yay for you, Click, for getting the vaccine! I had my second Moderna shot last Friday and my arm is still a little sore, but that was really the worst of it. I think I got off pretty easy, compared to other people's experience with their second Moderna shot.


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## lily cd re

Down is hardest for many dogs because it is the most vulnerable position. If they are worried and want to leave it takes more work to break that position than any of the others. I agree with Marguerite that your proofing should make things harder than a trial without being insane. I am happy to hear you folks are getting vaccines. It is really hard to get appointments in my neck of the woods still.


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## Click-N-Treat

I'm going to spend a lot of time proofing all aspects of command discrimination. The stand, we have solid. Down is a maybe and sit is a probably. Last Sunday, I reinforced the down, and lost the sit on Thursday. We'll just have to keep working at it. I think spending time with position changes and treat chasing will be fun for Noelle. I need to remember to have fun.


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## Skylar

Catherine, I hope you can get vaccinated soon. It was a full time job getting my appointment, both my husband and I worked at it. It should not be that hard, but sadly it is and will be until there’s excess vaccine. 

I’m thrilled that Click and Marguerite have gotten vaccinated. The more people I know who are, the more relieved I feel. 

Click, we always worked sit, down and stand randomly. My one trainer felt that for some people it was smarter to enter Open B because you may start with the fun exercises instead of heeling. We were prepared for Open A or B. Randomly switching them around helps clarify each command.


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## lily cd re

There is no guarantee that you will get a "fun order" in open B. I tried that with Lily for utility. I don't think it helped her. She did not seem to like not knowing what would be next in the order of exercises. I certainly always train out of the A sequences, including the open commands.


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle senses patterns and gets rattled when things are out of order. I think Open B would confuse her unnecessarily. Tomorrow will be a treat throwing party time for her. I want position changes to be fun, not stressful.


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## mvhplank

While UKC added more titling classes in the revisions effective at the first of the year, what they did not do is add other exercise orders to any class. However, there are four orders for the versatility class, but it's a non-titling class and clubs are not required to offer it. They did get rid of out-of-sight stays, so maybe we'll get more interest in the venues.


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## Click-N-Treat

Step one. Enter a large empty room with your dog and a bag of fantastic treats. 
Step two. Throw a treat for the dog to chase.
Step three. Call front, or heel, or sit, or down
Step four. throw more treats.
Step five, laugh.

OMG was today ever fun. I think it would have been more fun if I had higher value treats to chase, but wow did Noelle like training. Heeling, figure 8, command discrimination, drop on recall, but mostly treats and position changes. And bonding, because let's face it, training for competition is stressful on both of us. We had a good relaxing time and we enjoyed every minute of iit.


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## Click-N-Treat

Last Thursday, I threw the dumbbell over the jump for Noelle. It took a bad bounce to the right. Clearly visible on the other side of the jump. "Noelle, over!" She jumped over, got her dumbbell, and came back! Yippeee! That's the way you do it. Catherine, I can't thank you enough for the suggestion of putting ring gates on the sides of the jump and creating a chute. It worked like a charm. Over means over, not around. Over! 

Unfortunately, this Thursday we will not be going to training class. Noelle trained hard on Thursday, trained on Friday, played ball for over an hour on Saturday. On Sunday, I asked her for a down. Instead of lying down like she was magnetized to the floor, she sat. What? Reluctantly, slowly, she sort of hunched down, but her elbows didn't touch the floor. Huh. Come to think of it, she hesitated when jumping into the car on the way to work. She seemed off. Slower to respond. It wasn't until rally class when Noelle refused a jump that I realized, she's hurt! And I had a panic attack. (Thank you Catherine for peeling me off the ceiling again.)

Fortunately, after resting all day, she's back to her normal self. I was worried. Still, she needs a break from training. We'll be back at it on Sunday after a full week off. I have no doubt she'll be firing on all cylinders. She'd better be. I'm sending in our first CDX entry tomorrow. Onward!


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle?
Yes, Mom.
Do you know how to stand?
Yes.
Do you know how to lie down?
Yes.
Do you know how to sit?
Yes.
Can you show me?
Of course. First I sits in heel position. Then you say stand, and I stand like this, and you walks over there. Then I waits until you say down. And I lie down. Then you walks all the way far far far far away. And I sits.
Did you wait for me to stay sit?
No. I know you're gonna say sit, so I sit to save you the trouble. And also, because I am lonely for you to come back and give me a treat. Mom?
Yes.
What does that gesture mean?
Which gesture?
The one where you puts your palm on your face?

*__*
Our position change game is a lot of fun for her. I toss treats and call out cues. She comes into heel, or downs, or sits, or stands, or comes front, or goes directly to finish. She adores this. I spend a lot of time laughing. She always gets the right cue. The problem I am having with command discrimination is she knows what I am going to ask just because of how I walk away. Today she was popping up into a sit before I spoke or gestured. I'm at a loss how to fix this.

Mix it up? Walk to the middle of the ring and say sit? Walk to the end and say down? Do I risk confusing her? I love that she knows what to expect. I don't love that she isn't waiting for the cue. The moment I get 30 feet away, she sits, just because I am 30 feet away, and that's what comes next in the sequence

By the way Noelle, that facepalm gesture means Arrrrgh!


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## mvhplank

Click-N-Treat said:


> Our position change game is a lot of fun for her. I toss treats and call out cues. She comes into heel, or downs, or sits, or stands, or comes front, or goes directly to finish. She adores this. I spend a lot of time laughing. She always gets the right cue. The problem I am having with command discrimination is she knows what I am going to ask just because of how I walk away. Today she was popping up into a sit before I spoke or gestured. I'm at a loss how to fix this.
> 
> Mix it up? Walk to the middle of the ring and say sit? Walk to the end and say down? Do I risk confusing her? I love that she knows what to expect. I don't love that she isn't waiting for the cue. The moment I get 30 feet away, she sits, just because I am 30 feet away, and that's what comes next in the sequence


Oh, I _always_ mix it up, even when teaching it for the first time. These fluffy beggars are too darned clever. (But what a helpful sweetheart Noelle is!)


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## Skylar

Mix up your timing.

Count to 8 before cuing a sit, walk away turn and count to 8 before asking for something else., then 2, 12. Etc. Hold her in each position for random times. If I wait to a count of 7 before asking for a sit, I keep Babykins in the sit for a count of 5. Then I move and count to 4 and ask for a down and hold it to a count of 10.


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## Click-N-Treat

Ok. I can mix up my timing. On the one hand, anticipating let’s me know she understands what to do, just not when. I‘ve seen dogs down during the trial and then not sit and NQ. Mixing up timing would help.


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## mvhplank

Skylar said:


> Mix up your timing.
> 
> Count to 8 before cuing a sit, walk away turn and count to 8 before asking for something else., then 2, 12. Etc. Hold her in each position for random times. If I wait to a count of 7 before asking for a sit, I keep Babykins in the sit for a count of 5. Then I move and count to 4 and ask for a down and hold it to a count of 10.


Good one! That's probably what my instructor (multi-OTCH handler of Shelties) would have suggested FIRST.


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## Skylar

mvhplank said:


> Good one! That's probably what my instructor (multi-OTCH handler of Shelties) would have suggested FIRST.


. It’s what I learned in my proofing class. Always vary your timing, not just sometimes. It helps avoid anticipation. You can't predict how the judge will time the signals for the exercise.

edited to change can to can't


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## Click-N-Treat

I tried mixing things up yesterday. I also tried waiting random amounts of time. Noelle was confused, and not in a good way. I did some thinking and realized what I need to isolate aren't the transitions. Noelle downs at the correct time and sits at the correct time. The problem is the stay. I need to isolate the stay in a way that makes it clear to Noelle that it's the stay I am asking for.

During a trial, I can say stay when I leave Noelle in a stand, stay when I leave Noelle in a down. I cannot say stay before telling Noelle to sit. Or can I????

Practicing this: Start with a down, walk 14 feet, Stay, take one step back, sit. 
Walk 13 feet, Stay, take two steps back, sit.
Walk 12 feet, Stay, take three steps back, sit.
Inch forward until I tell Noelle to stay 15 feet away, and she understands she is to stay until I walk all the way to the final position, and say sit. Then add the stand back in.

Noelle learns well when I break down exactly want I want and make it clear. Right now, it isn't clear I want Noelle to wait to be told to sit. She clearly learned that I want her to sit. She didn't learn I wanted her to stay. I can teach her that. Once she understands the stay cue 15 feet away means to wait until I ask her to sit we'll be golden.


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## Click-N-Treat

Actually, it's a 30 foot sit. So, I start with the initial down from 15 feet, then walk to 29 feet, stay, one step back, sit.
28 feet, stay, two steps back, sit, etc. moving more after the stay cue each time. Until I've asked for a down at the 15 foot mark, STAY, walk the full 15 feet, Sit. 

I'm still puzzling out the best way to teach this. I sent in my premium for a show in April. Are we ready? The only way to find out is to go.


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## Click-N-Treat

It turned out Noelle wasn't confused by my changing when I say stay. And she wasn't confused by altering timing. And she wasn't confused by my changing up sit with down. She was confused why I was offering her dog treats instead of Mr. Fox as reinforcement. Duh! 

I got out Mr. Fox the squeaky toy and played tug. Then I put him in my pocket and we did stand sit down, stand down sit, and drop on recall. She's not even slightly confused. She just didn't want my nasty dog treat as reinforcement. Duh!

Earth to Click-N-Treat, a treat can be a toy. Especially a flat fox with squeakers and a crispy body named Mr. Fox. Say it with me now... Duh!


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## Click-N-Treat

Today training was fantastic. After a rowdy warm up, we settled into the most solid work we've ever done together. I discovered that hand signals work better for command discrimination than verbal cues. I also discovered why Noelle hesitates to get her dumbbell over the jump. Sometimes, when I tell her, "Over!" she jumps over the jump, runs out to the dumbbell and gives me a puzzled look. Slowly she picks it up and brings it back. Weird. Why is she hesitating? 

My cue for getting the dumbbell on the flat is, "Get!" What would happen if I told Noelle, "Get!" instead of "Over!"? So, I set up, tossed the dumbbell over the jump, and said, "Noelle, Get!" She took off, flew over the jump, grabbed the dumbbell and jumped back. Was that a fluke? Nope. We did it three times and she got it correctly all three times. No wonder she was puzzled. Wrong cue. 

As we get ready to trial, I'm working on making clear and consistent cues, and making training a blast. I've been practicing our ring choreography, and really thinking through how we'll get from here to there. One thing I need to practice is throwing the dumbbell more accurately. It has to land at least 8 feet beyond the jump. That does not mean it has to land clear on the other side of the ring. How hard do I have to throw it to make it go 10 or 12 feet past the jump? How do I get it to land where I want it? Today I was throwing my dumbbell on a rubber floor and it bounced everywhere. Am I weird for thinking one of the toughest part of Open is throwing that silly thing?

Onward!


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## Skylar

I hear you on tossing the dumbbell. I have practiced and practiced and practiced. I'm terrible at it, just awful. I once tossed it 6 times in a row and hit the jump each time - who does that? When I'm nervous, I tense up and it's worse. It does help to smile when you toss it - and keep smiling through the whole exercise, let Noelle see you smiling as she comes into front.

Are you using a plastic dumbbell? They seem to bounce more than wood.


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## Click-N-Treat

I'm throwing a custom plastic dumbbell. It goes sailing exactly where I want it to go, hits the floor, and bounces anywhere. Drives me crazy. And it's hard to let Noelle see me smile behind a mask. Although my cute poodle print is friendly.


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## mvhplank

I have heard of people putting out a hula-hoop as a dumbbell target, but I confess I haven't tried it myself. An acquaintance who has had multiple OTCH Papillons went to a specialty trial held indoors on carpet. She found a quiet spot and practiced her dumbbell throw on the carpet to see how much control she could get on the bounce. When she came out of the ring after a successful run, the judge said, "Aren't you glad you practiced that throw?" 

I confess that I haven't done that, but have tried to compensate by training the dog to "find the jump."


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## cowpony

Where are you looking when you throw the dumbbell? I have a bad habit of looking where I don't want something to go. Then the something goes exactly where my eyes are pointing.


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## Click-N-Treat

I look at a spot on the floor where I want the dumbbell to land. On a normal floor, it lands within inches of where I want it to go. On a rubber floor, all bets are off. A poor dumbbell throw makes retrieve over the high jump harder than it needs to be. Retrieve over the high jump is a behavior chain. Throw>Send>Jump>Retrieve>Jump>Front. That much is obvious, but you might not realize each part of the chain has cues imbedded within it. 

Cue 1, Visual - watch the dumbbell fly
Cue 2, Verbal - order to retrieve
Cue 3, Visual - jump
Cue 4, Visual - dumbbell 
Cue 5, Tactile - picking up dumbbell 
Cue 6, Tactile - turn around
Cue 7, Visual - jump
Cue 8. Visual - me standing 8 feet from the jump.

Like a row of dominos standing up, each cue triggers the next cue. If the dumbbell lands 12 feet away from the jump, and four feet to the left, there is a break between cue 3 and cue 4. After landing, the dog might wander around wondering where the dumbbell went. Mouth touching the dumbbell cues turning around, and jumping. If I throw it badly, when the dog turns, cue 7 is not where it belongs. Dog may go around the jump because of a break between cue 6 and cue 7.

If my dumbbell lands dead center on the opposite side of the jump, I have a 99.98% chance Noelle is going to jump, retrieve, jump, and front, because all 8 cues in the chain are connected. If it lands somewhere unexpected, I risk the chain breaking. We've practiced and practiced bad throws, but they are clearly more difficult for the dog. In this exercise, correctly planting the dumbbell is worth practicing. 

At my trial I am throwing on concrete with roll up mats under the ring. I'm taking my jump out front and practicing throwing the dumbbell on the sidewalk until I can get it to land exactly where I want it. Neighbors already think I'm crazy. Might as well give them something else to talk about.


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## Skylar

I sometimes do dumbbell retrieve practice and have stewarded at trials with this type of flooring. Dumbbells tend to bounce less.

As proofing, place the dumbbell in all kinds of positions including far to the right and left of the jump, then send Noelle to retrieve. You never know where your dumbbell will end up in a competition so it’s important that after Cue 3 you include Noelle looking for the dumbbell in an unexpected position.


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## Click-N-Treat

One nice thing about practicing on a rubber floor is the dumbbell goes too far left and right way more often than up the middle. I just hope to plant it dead center at my trial. She'll be under enough stress, so setting her up for success is only fair.


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## Click-N-Treat

Haven't updated this thread in a while. So, we went to a trial. At the match the night before, Noelle was happy to arrive, pleased to be in the new building. She wagged her tail during set up and was happily offering behaviors and eating treats. So, I'm thinking we're on the right track. This is awesome. We entered the ring and Noelle took one look around and decided nope. She would not eat a treat in the ring. Seemed nervous by the person acting as judge. I tried to coax her into working. Nope. No, no thank you, no. We limped through our practice. Even with treats in the ring, Noelle was not acting like herself.

So, what to do? Do I A, force a clearly unhappy dog to trial because we drove all that way? Or, B... play hooky and visit state parks? I chose option B. I let the people in the trial know we weren't coming, and we left. We went to six state parks in one weekend. Noelle and I had a blast. The trial was a disaster, but the trip was not. I learned a lot about my dog.

We're going back to rally trials. Noelle loves rally. She is confused by obedience. Since Noelle has not trialed since October of 2019, rally seems like a better plan going ahead. Also, there is a Rally Champion title to chase. I've entered Noelle in two rally trials. But..

We're entered in Advanced B in the first trial, and triple qualifying in the second trial. Why? Because Noelle gets to enter a strange ring with the easiest course possible. I can clap my hands and pat my legs if I need to. This gives Noelle an opportunity to work in a new ring before the signs get harder. It's been a long time since Noelle trialed and she needs to get used to the idea again. I picked a trial with a judge I know well for Noelle's welcome back to rally trials. After that... full speed ahead. I've got TQ trials planned all summer long and well into the autumn.

Instead of setting a goal of getting a CDX any time soon, let's see how many times we can TQ. Let's see if we can get a RACH title this year. We need a bazillion points to get one, but let's see if we can. Let's have some fun together, Noelle my future Rally Champion, because rally is fun. Onward!


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## Starla

“The trial was a disaster, but the trip was not. I learned a lot about my dog.”
I love this. What a great outlook.


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## Liz

Agreed. Good for you for listening to your dog. Noelle is a lucky girl!


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## fjm

I'm glad you both had a happy time, instead of continuing with something that would have made Noelle miserable and you guilty. I bet after a few months of having fun doing Rally at trials she will feel quite differently about going into the obedience ring, and if she doesn't you will know it just isn't her sport.


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## Raven's Mom

I am facing this decision with Raven. We have still not finished her Novice title even though we’ve been training open for a couple years, because she acts so differently at the trials than training. I started her in agility in March just to see if her attitude would be different in a different activity in the same venue and she just started really having fun the last couple weeks. I think it has boosted her confidence but I am still scared to try Novice again and I know she’ll pick up on my feelings right away. I keep asking myself if I should just let her quit obedience and concentrate on Wren’s obedience, but I really would like to finish what we started too[emoji30]


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## lily cd re

When I feel like I am between a rock and a hard place I always try to remember that I make the choices about what to do and that they didn't ask to be performance dogs. I then try to be honest with myself about what any of them might be trying to tell me about whether they are having fun, feeling stressed...


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## Click-N-Treat

Raven's Mom,

I think I understand how you feel. With Rally, Noelle and I collected the entire set of titles: Novice, Advanced, Excellent, Advanced Excellent, and Master. There's a completeness there. I would like very much for Noelle to get a CDX and a UD and complete the obedience titles set. However, the question I asked myself as I drove away from the trial was, "Who is the CDX for, Noelle or me?" If it's for Noelle, then Noelle should enjoy the process of getting a new title, and shiny ribbons. If it's for me... Well, is getting a CDX something I am doing _with_ Noelle, or is it something I am doing _to_ Noelle. 

Right now, trying to get a CDX title with Noelle would be something I am doing _to _her. I could limp her forward, drag her along, coax and prod, and maybe get a title. Or, we can train more and practice more. We can go to rally trials and get trial experience back after our long break. We can go to obedience matches. And then, when we are ready, open the door to obedience again.

Or, we can just decide that's not our thing. I haven't decided if we will stop working toward a CDX and UD. I have decided to let Noelle be my guide. Next time you are training your dog for novice, stop and listen to your dog and let your dog decide.


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## Raven's Mom

Click,

Yes! Raven has through RE in Rally but she shuts down if I try for QQs for the RAE so we haven’t done Really in a while. I could try to do Master exercises. Like Lily said, she didn’t ask for this, it’s so for me, but Raven is 7 and we’ve been training since she was 6mo. I keep thinking it’s ridiculous that we can’t at least finish the CD! It makes it feel so incomplete. And she really good at at all of it through Open in training but gets so stressed at trials it’s like a different dog.

I don’t know…I’m hoping after this COVID break we’ve had maybe we can get the final 2 legs and be done with it. I am currently living with and caring for my 84yr old mother with dementia so, while I enjoy the classes and working with both of them, anything that causes more stress I do NOT need. 


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## Click-N-Treat

You've accomplished more with your dog than most people will do in a lifetime. A single title is a huge achievement and look, you have four. I'm proud of you for stepping out and doing more with your dog. Another title to try for is tricks. You can get trick dog titles in your own home if you video them. Way less stressful, zero travel, and let's face it, tricks are fun.


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## Skylar

Click, you are so wise. Instead of a miserable experience you flipped It to the positive. Nothing more uplifting in this pandemic than a road trip exploring state parks. 

I love you have planned to set Noelle up for success, putting her in the position to feel confident and comfortable by entering Advanced B. She’s going to get back into the swing of it quickly. You are her best advocate.

Brava to team Click/Noelle


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## TeamHellhound

I retired Ilka from AKC obedience and rally with an RE, BN and two legs of a CD. It just wasn't worth the stress we went through at trials. Then I discovered online titling, and never looked back with her. Leo and Lily have never done anything other than online titling, other than Leo's UKC CA. I'm hoping that with Simon, I will get back to doing in-person titling again.


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## Click-N-Treat

Good for you for listening to what your dog was telling you. I can't tell you how many trials I have been to and watched stressed out dogs and stressed out people having no fun together. Tell me more about online titles. I'm intrigued.


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## TeamHellhound

Click-N-Treat said:


> Good for you for listening to what your dog was telling you. I can't tell you how many trials I have been to and watched stressed out dogs and stressed out people having no fun together. Tell me more about online titles. I'm intrigued.


There are lots of things you can do, like tricks, obedience, rally, freestyle, parkour, outdoor sports, and more. If you are on Facebook, this group has a pretty comprehensive list of organizations. Facebook Groups

I have several playlists on YouTube of our passing submissions with various organizations. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiAragU_rYroNShtCl-AZPA They are set to public. 

And as a shameless brag, as of 3-15-21, there were five dogs with an All Dogs Parkour Premier Championship title (requires a total of 40 legs), and my girls Leo and Lily are two of them.


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## Click-N-Treat

That's awesome. Congratulations!


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## Click-N-Treat

Rally class tonight. It was at my dog training club. I haven't been there with Noelle since March of 2020, so it's awesome to be back.

I practiced leash removal and a new nose targeting game. During leash removal, Noelle puts her chin in my hand. I hold her head while I take the leash off. Then Noelle sticks her nose to my fist and just stays sticky and walks with me to the start sign and sits. Are you ready? Ready! I just trained Sticky over the weekend. Noelle loves being sticky. I made it a very silly game, I think that's why. Sticky gives her something to do other than stop and scratch. That worked beautifully. The training club is loud and there were more dogs there. And there are two rings side by side. Noelle got very distracted in the corner. However...

I've gotten to be a better trainer! I stood absolutely still and just waited for her to return her attention to me. The second she did, I threw a small party and gave her lots of treats. That went well. Stand While Heeling Call to Finish Sit. This is usually one of Noelle's best signs. But, I screwed up and didn't signal the stay very well, so she followed me a few steps. Then when I called to finish, I called her to finish right. She got distracted by the ring gate and the dog working in the next ring. Facepalm! What I should have done was call, "Noelle, heel!" Then she would have come to my side and swung into place. I'll have to keep that in mind. Finish right is not always the best choice.

Sit, side step, sit. Noelle was too distracted to sit. There's a dog in rally who lunges and snarls at dogs. He was right by the ring gate giving Noelle the stink eye. Instead of cuing the sit, I stood still and just waited. Noelle turned toward me. That's when I cued the Sit. She sat. Side step, she did a reasonable side step, and sat. 

She did surprisingly well with call front two side steps left, finish sit. First run wasn't great, but the second run...

We were halfway through the course. Loop left. We were looping and some clumsy oaf stepped on Noelle's foot! She shrieked and took off running. I laid down on the floor and waited for Noelle to climb on me. Which she did. Once I apologized and snuggled her enough, we got up and finished the course. I am certain everyone thought I was insane. I do not care. I will do what my dog needs me to do, no matter where I am. That was what she needed. I did notice Noelle paid extremely close attention to me the rest of the course. But, the poor dog. I am so sorry I stepped on Noelle's foot. I'll have to pay close attention to where I step on those left turns. And I'll have to do a better job of warning Noelle ahead of time so she's paying close attention. Noelle is a great dog. Her handler is a stupid clumsy lummox who needs a choke chain and a shock collar, though. Bad handler! Bad!

Still...

Focus and attention practice is paying off. I have been working on teaching Noelle to return her attention to me when she's distracted. The statue game is good for this. If you don't know how to play...

10 treats. Five in a bowl. Five in your hand. Give the first five treats with lavish joyful praise. "You're the sweetest dog." Treat. Wait for swallow. "I love you so much." Treat, wait for swallow. Petting, and happy and loving and five treats. When all five treats are gone, turn into a statue.

Nothing happens until the dog turns you back on by looking at you. Dog looks at you, turn back into a kind friendly praise machine, get a treat from the bowl and treat the dog. Then stop and turn into a statue again. The dog learns it's their behavior that turns on the praise machine. It's the dog's choice to interact with you. And the more you practice the statue game, the faster the dog tunes back in from distraction. 

My plan for the week is taking the statue game on the road. We did some distraction training last week and it paid off this week. I'll step it up even more because it's working! Whoo hoo! 

I enjoy training at my club because the class is taught by a Rally judge. It's loud and trial like with dogs at the ring gate giving Noelle the stink eye. I get to practice rally in three places: First is in total isolation with just the two of us in the ring. Second is in a noisy AKC club in an arena with indoor soccer going on above us. BOOM! BANG! And a second rally ring next to us. And dogs giving the stink eye outside the ring gate. The third place is in a quieter building with a Barn Hunt enclosure full of interesting straw nearby and other dogs barking in the building. 

Having all three places to train is such a gift! Silence. Loud and very distracting. Moderately distracting. Rally three days a week. My first rally entry was accepted and I got my confirmation email. I sort of gulped when I looked at it. Ready or not... here we come.


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## Skylar

Poor Noelle, we’ve all stepped on our dog’s feet, what is amazing is they will get back into heel position so close to our dangerous feet. Noelle loves you so much she quickly forgave you. 



Click-N-Treat said:


> I practiced leash removal and a new nose targeting game. During leash removal, Noelle puts her chin in my hand. I hold her head while I take the leash off. Then Noelle sticks her nose to my fist and just stays sticky and walks with me to the start sign and sits. Are you ready? Ready! I just trained Sticky over the weekend. Noelle loves being sticky. I made it a very silly game, I think that's why. Sticky gives her something to do other than stop and scratch.


. I love this idea.....I’m going to train Theo and Babykins. Such a smart and useful trick. 



Click-N-Treat said:


> 10 treats. Five in a bowl. Five in your hand. Give the first five treats with lavish joyful praise. "You're the sweetest dog." Treat. Wait for swallow. "I love you so much." Treat, wait for swallow. Petting, and happy and loving and five treats. When all five treats are gone, turn into a statue.
> 
> Nothing happens until the dog turns you back on by looking at you. Dog looks at you, turn back into a kind friendly praise machine, get a treat from the bowl and treat the dog. Then stop and turn into a statue again. The dog learns it's their behavior that turns on the praise machine. It's the dog's choice to interact with you. And the more you practice the statue game, the faster the dog tunes back in from distraction.


 I’m also going to train this clever game.

Now that you an Noelle are getting back to your normal training routine things are going to click for team Click.


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle and I are working on the pivot bowl again for rear end awareness. 






This video uses a book, but I use an upside down dog dish. Noelle his very good at rotating into heel, and rotating the opposite direction. This helps with rally pivots and side steps. We're also working on backing up to a target. Noelle's back up three steps is pretty awful. She backs up straight one step, pivots her rear end left, and ends up even more crooked at the end. 

Some rally judges will put the back up three steps sign near a ring gate, so the dog can use the ring gate to line up. Some judges stick the sign dead center in the middle of the ring. If your dog backs up crooked, the master sign of back up three steps, pivot and back up one more step is awful. 

Poor Noelle is trying to avoid getting stepped on, which makes it even worse for us. We'll keep practicing. Other things that used to be hard for Noelle in rally are now easy. Any combination of stand and leave she's got nailed down. The cloverleaf is no problem. Go to the cone and sit (which I have never seen in a trial) is solid. Call front, and side step, is also really solid. If you're practicing that sign, just remember the dog doesn't sit first. Heel, front, sit, side step, side step, sit, finish and go without a sit in heel. 

I wonder if I put a wait cue in the middle of backing up three steps it would help her stay in heel? She goes behind and strays left because I'm an oaf.


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## mvhplank

Kiko has good stuff! I found that my smaller dogs (rat terriers) easily picked up rear end awareness ... they were "sports car" dogs. My standard poodles are more like "stretch limosines."


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## 94Magna_Tom

Click-N-Treat said:


> Noelle and I are working on the pivot bowl again for rear end awareness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This video uses a book, but I use an upside down dog dish. Noelle his very good at rotating into heel, and rotating the opposite direction. This helps with rally pivots and side steps. We're also working on backing up to a target. Noelle's back up three steps is pretty awful. She backs up straight one step, pivots her rear end left, and ends up even more crooked at the end.
> 
> Some rally judges will put the back up three steps sign near a ring gate, so the dog can use the ring gate to line up. Some judges stick the sign dead center in the middle of the ring. If your dog backs up crooked, the master sign of back up three steps, pivot and back up one more step is awful.
> 
> Poor Noelle is trying to avoid getting stepped on, which makes it even worse for us. We'll keep practicing. Other things that used to be hard for Noelle in rally are now easy. Any combination of stand and leave she's got nailed down. The cloverleaf is no problem. Go to the cone and sit (which I have never seen in a trial) is solid. Call front, and side step, is also really solid. If you're practicing that sign, just remember the dog doesn't sit first. Heel, front, sit, side step, side step, sit, finish and go without a sit in heel.
> 
> I wonder if I put a wait cue in the middle of backing up three steps it would help her stay in heel? She goes behind and strays left because I'm an oaf.


I liked that video. Future training inspirations!


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## Click-N-Treat

Rear end awareness did not come naturally to Noelle at all. It took weeks for her to move her back feet in any direction. And she's so flexible that bending her head with a treat still didn't result in foot movement. I changed my plan and just clicked her for moving her back foot. Even a twitch was clickable. Finally, Noelle learned to circle into heel. Work with the pivot bowl does help with side steps and pivots in rally. We're in the process of transitioning from the bowl to the floor.


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## Skylar

That’s an excellent video.



Click-N-Treat said:


> And she's so flexible that bending her head with a treat still didn't result in foot movement.


 We had that problem too, but once she understood what to do, it went smoothly. I’m teaching the puppy now and it’s the same problem. We’re still at that step of figuring it out.

I really prefer to teach this using something round and not a rectangle book. It’s so much easier once the dog understands for you and the dog to turn in unison when the pivot bowl is round. 

I think all poodles should be taught hind end awareness to help with being on the grooming table.

I also have that same back up three steps and we have never been lucky to have it next to gating. Babykins goes beautifully straight next to gating and awfully crooked without it. I’m wondering if it’s because I practiced too often next to a wall or railing but ever time we would go crooked away from the wall, I would go back to the wall to ensure we practiced it with her going straight. In WCRL rally and also for one of our trick dog titles she had to come in front, stand and walk backwards while I walk forward into her. She goes embarrassingly crooked there too.


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## Click-N-Treat

Skylar,

I have Noelle backing up to two welcome mats stacked together prickly side in, so she has to lift her rear feet up to step on the mat. It's also high up enough that if she falls off, she self corrects without being worried. Putting it in the center of the room where she actually learns to straighten herself has been helpful. I too used a wall when I first taught this. As long as Noelle was along a wall, straight back up. Step away from the wall... back up straight, a bit left, seriously left with nose pointing toward my left knee, tada! Add a pivot and a step backward and I'm screwed. By having her back to a target and pause, I'm having better success teaching her what I actually want.

I started with rear feet on the mat, front feet off the mat (2 on/2 off like agility), lots of treats for this. Put a treat just far enough away so she had to stretch to get it, stretch more, more, more, step off... go back, tons of treats for getting rear feet back on the mat. Repeat, repeat, repeat and repeat. When you are sure your dog has it, repeat more before adding another step. Repeat even more before adding a third step.

I started with Noelle in front of me and she was backing away. Then I turned so I was along side. Then I stood up and called her off the mat and sent her backward. Today I backed up with her. We still need a tremendous amount of practice, but at least we are heading in the right direction.


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## Skylar

You just got me thinking. I have a long board of wood, 2x8 that I use for training agility but also staying in position for side by side. I just realized I should have her walk back on that. I think all that walking against the wall actually worked against us by training her to use the wall as well as my leg.


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle heavily relied on the wall. I think that's why she swings her back end way left. Also, she does this because I'm an oaf and she's trying to get out of my clumsy way. That 2x8 would work well. Start heeling forward, then give your go backward cue and see what happens. You could end up going forward all the way across the board, and then in reverse all the way across the board. Then you fade the board and she'd know how to walk backward.

Or at least... that's what you would think. However, we are training poodles.

If your dog is like my dog, fading a scaffold is way harder because she learns everything you teach her within the scaffolding, _including the scaffolding_. Remove the scaffold and the poodle says, "This thing we are doing now is not quite like the thing we were doing before. Please teach me how to do this brand new thing."

I've said it before, and I will say it again, Noelle is the most context aware dog I have ever trained. If I taught her how to sit on a Monday, at 4:00 in the afternoon, when it was snowing, I was wearing jeans and a yellow sweatshirt, all of that information would be added to the context of sit. On a Tuesday, at 2:00 in the afternoon, on a sunny day, I am wearing slacks and a gray sweater, in the identical location, Noelle would not know how to sit. 

She takes in all of the information -- including extraneous and irrelevant information -- and adds that into her thought process of what a cue means. Sit means sit if I am holding my posture a certain way, at a specific time of day, and I am wearing the same clothes. This makes her maddeningly difficult to train. Noelle appears to learn a new cue in 30 seconds or less, but she has also learned it within that specific context. So, I have to re-train the same behavior again and again and again and again. Sit means sit if this happens, and this, and this thing, and that thing, and the other thing. Yes, training Noelle feels a whole lot like being trapped inside _Green Eggs and Ham._ Would you could you on a walk? Would you could you on the chalk? Would you could you by a rock? Would you could you if I'm wearing a smock?

Because of this, I have learned to change the picture I am giving my dog when I teach her a new behavior. If I was sitting when I taught something, I stand. If I was standing with my weight on my right hip, I shift my weight to my left hip. I want to convey to Noelle which specific slice of information I want her to pay attention to. I have to always keep this in mind. She's noticing a whole lot more than I think she is.

Unless you fade that board carefully, you could end up with a dog who can walk backward on a board beautifully, and still not be able to perform in the ring. Before you start training, have a way to remove the scaffolding without the behavior falling apart. I'd suggest cardboard under the long board. Then train walk back on cardboard. And on a carpet runner. And on the bare floor. And don't be too shocked if the first time you try cardboard, in the identical location, the dog doesn't know what you want. And when you transition from cardboard to a carpet runner, same thing. And you'll have to retrain on the bare floor. And in another room. And at the training facility. And... 

Dogs don't generalize well. And smart dogs are even tougher to train because they learn too much, including things you didn't even know you were training. Training Noelle new things is easy. Training her that new things don't also include a thousand other things, including the moon phase, is tough. I spend way more energy re-training and un-training, than training a new behavior.


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## Click-N-Treat

In preparation for our next rally trial, I've been trying to get toys and treats off of my body. So, I got myself a small soup Thermos. Not just any Thermos. I got a Disney Frozen Thermos with Olaf and Princess Anna and Queen Elsa on it. Very cool. I also chose it because it is light blue and blue is a color dogs can see clearly. I stuffed it full of chopped pieces of chicken. I let Noelle watch me stuff it full of chicken. Then I screwed on the lid and put the Thermos on the floor.

I said nothing. I did nothing. It was just on the floor waiting for Noelle to give it a good snort and a whack, which she did. It didn't open. Puzzled, Noelle came over to me, made eye contact. "Mama, the chicken is all stuck-ified in the blue thing. Can you helps?"
I said, "Sit!"
She sat.
I said, "Cookies!" And ran over to the Thermos, unscrewed the lid and let Noelle get some chicken. Then I put the lid back on, put it on the floor where it was, and stepped away.

Within seconds, Noelle decided this was the most funnest game ever. She ran away from the treats, came to heel and stared at me. We did a few simple rally moves... "Cookies!" And ran over to the Thermos together. We practiced and practiced. Long sequences, and short ones. Call front sit, two side steps right, sit, finish, forward... Cookies! Back up three steps, double left about turn, spin left, spin right, stand while heeling call to finish, sit... Cookies!

Today at Rally, I brought the magic Thermos. I stuffed it full of a chopped up Quarter Pounder with Cheese. This is a very very extremely high value treat. I let her have a bite. I put the lid back on and stashed it by our crate. Without a toy in my pocket, or a treat in my hand, Noelle did a fairly decent, if a bit distracted, rally Master run. Judge said she would have qualified. I clipped her leash on, and said, "Cookies!" She almost dragged me to the cookie jar. I opened the lid and let her have some hamburger. 

Four rally Master runs tonight. No treats in my pocket. No toys. No gimmicks. Just us and a cookie jar on the floor by my crate. Four qualifying Master runs with an AKC judge as instructor. Were they smooth as ice? Nope. Would we have earned first place? Nope. Would we have earned points? Probably not. But was it a huge victory? You bet!

A student of mine took the Cookie Jar Games Fenzi class and I've watched her progress. I understood the concept and decided to give it a whirl. And it worked. It really worked. It didn't take Noelle months and months to figure it out. She understood it in two minutes. To get the treats, you must leave the treats, do some goofy things with mom, and then you get a jackpot of treats from the cookie jar. I will do this with every dog I train for competition for the rest of my life from puppyhood. Treats are in the cookie jar over there. To get one, do something I ask, and I'll open it for you. 

Tonight our rally course was full of sit. Sit stand down. Sit down sit. Sit, recall call over jump, sit in front. Call front, two side steps right, sit. Sit, pivot right, sit. Poor Noelle hates to sit. Of all the things we do in Rally, sit is her least favorite thing. She checks out every time. During our third run I ended up singing, "If you're happy and you know it you will sit." Which she liked, and eventually sat. Eight sits in one course was a whole lot, though. It was also almost all stationary signs, so it was a tough course and not AKC legal. I'm super happy with Noelle tonight. Her friend, Uncle Dave and his dog Ivy were right on the other side of the ring gate talking and Noelle still stayed with me.

Does anyone have any tricks to help a dog who absolutely hates to sit, sit?


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## TeamHellhound

I was thinking that sounded like Cookie Jar Games. That class is on my list of ones to take in the future, once we figure out the basics. 

I'm assuming that she's had a clean vet check, and just plain old doesn't like sitting?


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## Click-N-Treat

Oh, she's physically sound. Noelle sits at warp speed everywhere else in the world except for the ring. In the ring, I can almost hear her saying, "Whee, circle left, oooh, jump I love jumps, serpentine weave, this is fun I wonder what's next, and... did you just say SIT? Why? We were having fun doing stuff. Why are we stopping to sit? Not that again. I don't wanna sit. Sit is boring."


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## Click-N-Treat

Rally trial this weekend. Since Noelle hasn't trialed since October 2019, I decided to start off easy with Advanced B, the lowest level of Rally Noelle is eligible to enter. We got to a crowded trial site, navigated around rows and rows of crates. We selected our crate area and set up camp. I discovered Noelle likes her crate covered and a fan blowing on her. She settled nicely in her crate and was quiet. Good thing because the trial was running two hours late. 

When we did the walkthrough, I realized we were on astroturf, a flooring Noelle has no experience on. Unsure if she would sit on something so rough, I brought her to the front door where there was a floor mat. Roughly the same texture. I had her practice sits and downs on the floor mat. Then it was our turn int he ring. Our first rally entry, Noelle got a 95. A perfect score is 100, so I was quite pleased with her showing, and we got 6 championship points.

For Trial 2, I decided to go for it and enter in Master, Excellent, and Advanced. Our first triple qualify attempt since October 2019. Noelle and I were rusty on our Master level and only got a 76. No points, but a qualifying score toward RM2 title. Happy with that. Excellent, Noelle did much better and we got a 96, and 6 more championship points. By the time we got to Advanced, Noelle was very tired. She got a 94, though, and 5 championship points. 

So, 17 points toward our Rally Championship title. We have 120 points toward the 300 points we need for RACH title. I'm starting to believe we can do this. We need to triple qualify 20 times and get 300 points. So far we've triple qualified 13 times. After such a long break, watching Noelle get back in the game was joyful for both of us. Good thing, because we have triple qualifying trials scheduled for June 25 and 26. And then, July 2nd, and 3rd, and 4th, and 5th, and 6th, and the 16th. Can we do it? I dunno. We'll just have to do our best. The July 2nd-July 6th is at a cluster show in Wisconsin. One trial a day for five days. We've never done anything like that before. I have no idea if we can do it. I just know we're going to try.


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## Liz

Wow! You and Noelle did great! You came back strong after 20 months off. Good luck these next few weekends!


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## mvhplank

Regarding sits: you will eventually need them in Utility go-outs (and maybe in half-ring go-outs in other classes and other venues). I've been advised to call out random "sit" commands here, there, and everywhere until the order bypasses the thinking part of the brain and the dog sits reflexively. In competition, of course, response is often a bit slower, but when "normal" is really fast, then "a bit slower" is actually quite prompt.


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## Skylar

Click, I love how you thought about and trained the Cookie Jar with Noelle. I do know some dogs who will leave the ring in the middle to go to their “cookie jar”. Any exercise that brings them close to the entrance is tricky for these dogs. Savvy dogs quickly learn treats are not in the ring. Their handlers have had to introduce “sometimes there’s a treat in my pocket” so the dogs aren’t certain where treat rewards come from. These are experienced dog trainers, not neophytes with this problem. 

So many dogs hate too many sits in rally, especially older ones. I think you are smart to use your happy voice with sit. 

Sounds like you and Noelle are really coming back strong in rally. It shows the depth of training and your connection with her.


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## Click-N-Treat

Oh, Noelle very clearly thought about leaving the ring to get her cookie jar at the end. I was putting on her leash and I could tell she wanted to go. Fortunately, I was able to head that off.


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## Click-N-Treat

Back from a trial. Those of you who triple qualify in Rally will see the problem with this schedule.

Trial 1 Advanced B 11:15 walkthrough
Trial 2 Master 11:00 walk through

Does this mean that handlers are going to walk Master in ring 2, then walk Advanced B in ring 1, show in Master in ring 2, and show in Advanced B in ring 1? 

If you said, of course not. No one would set up a trial where you walk two different courses and then show in two different rings. Right? You would be wrong. That is exactly what happened. I was called to the ring to show in Master while I was walking the Advanced course in the other ring. We qualified. Our scores were terrible in both Master and Advanced. Still, another TQ. Will I be back to that trial again? Absolutely not.


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## Liz

Congrats on the Q all the same!


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## Skylar

Well that sucks but congratulations on the Qs. Ask around, is this club known to be thoughtless in planning or was there something unusual happening? I might give them a second chance if this is not their norm. 

I’ve seen that happen, sometimes you need to speak to the ring steward and the judge to change the run order so you can run and do your walk throughs.


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## lily cd re

I have had double trial days with crazy judging schedules like that. It shouldn't happen but it does. It is the trial secretary who makes the program. AKC provides guidance to secretaries as to how long each entry should take and then they should take that time and multiply by the number of dogs in the class, but sometimes things go off the clock that was planned for. Someone has a hugely fast or slow dog, or the stewards can't find someone who should be on deck and ready. They aren't supposed to hold the class for teams that aren't ready, but sometimes they do. There are a couple of FB groups where people givereviews of different judges and trials. Generally people will share about good experiences but are much more reluctant to trash or lay blame about the specifics of bad experiences. I once asked about a weekend where I didn't know either of two judges that I might have shown to. It would have been a new location for us as well. I asked about the place and both judges, heard nice things about the place and one of the judges but got no public reply about the other judge until a friend messaged me privately to say that judge was on her never show to list. Needless to say I did not go way out into western Maryland to show one day to one decent judge. In the future, the place is still a possibility to me though.


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## Click-N-Treat

At the start of training camp in 1961, legendary Green Bay Packer's coach, Vince Lombardi told his team the most famous five words ever uttered in sports history. "Gentlemen, this is a football."

His point was clear. Start with the basics and fundamentals and do not neglect them. In Rally and Obedience, the most fundamental skill is sit. It's also the skill I am least likely to reinforce and celebrate a perfect execution. "Noelle sit." She sits. I move on to another skill, and then reinforce the second skill, and cue her to return to heel and don't reinforce the sit. 

Guess which behavior breaks down during rally trials? The one with the least reinforcement history: sit! I decided to retrain sit all over again from the beginning with a new cue. It turned out Noelle was just humoring me with the new cue, but she did appreciate being rewarded for sitting nicely. Another change I've made, speaking of fundamentals, we're playing it's yer choice again. Treats in left hand, treats in right hand, stare at me and I will give you a treat. This has made looking at me highly reinforcing. Noelle likes this game so much she demands we play it every night before dinner.

Along with reinforcing sit and eye contact, I've spent some time hanging out with Noelle and figuring out what her motivation is for doing rally. I train a student with a Belgian Malinois and his motivation for doing rally is it's his job. His handler tells him what to do, and he salutes and does his job. The more she asks, the happier and more focused he gets. Noelle clearly isn't motivated by an invitation to work. She's also not like the dogs I train who will trade work for snacks, either. Toys make her excited, but she's not driven to trade toys for work. What is her motivation? I didn't know, so I asked her. Not in words, of course. I just watched what made her tail wag and what got her fired up. I discovered what gets Noelle motivated is... playing with me. 

If I'm playful during training, Noelle is engaged and deeply interested in what I am asking. I found out tonight, if I am playful during rally, Noelle is going to join my fun. At the start sign, I took off at a merry pace playfully calling, "I'm gonna do rally without you!" Noelle the lagging distracted dog scrambled into heel position and stayed there. Sit, pivot left, sit. She was solid in heel position, nailed that pivot, and sat. I had a deeply focused, engaged, happy poodle doing rally with me for fun. We had a ball. 

Focusing on fundamentals -- eye contact games, remembering to reinforce every sit like it matters, and being playful -- is making a huge difference.


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## Asta's Mom

I love that you and Noelle are always having a good time in and out of the ring. Really helps me with Asta - trying to always have a good time. Lesson learned by reading threads like this. So much of it makes good sense to me. I always pay attention to dog sports on the forum and it is a gold mine.


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## Click-N-Treat

A student of mine and her dog just won 4th place in the AKC Rally National Championship Novice level. Whoo hoo! Fantastic! 

Noelle is not going to place 4th in the Rally National Championship. She's not going to place 4th in the East Nowheresville Illinois Kennel Club show, unless there are only four dogs competing. I'm not training a rally prodigy. I'm not training a dog selectively bred from eight generations of OTCH winners. And that is exactly why I'm a good teacher. 

For Noelle to qualify, I have to break down each rally sign into tiny fundamental skills in ways a lot of trainers do not. I have to make sure my dog is lined up in perfect heel position as we approach a pivot sign, because the moment I say sit, she may be out of position and a pivot is impossible. I know I am training a dog with an attention span that flickers in and out more than a disco ball reflects light. For Noelle to qualify, I have to work and work hard, and notice all the subtle parts of rally that go unnoticed by more focused dogs and handlers. It's in those little subtle things where points are lost. 

I'm not an expert at executing rally with Noelle by any means. What I'm good at is teaching, which is an entirely different skill set. And though the AKC doesn't give ribbons and awards to trainers of AKC Rally National winners, I feel like I got one. So proud of my student. 4th place out of 81 entries. Fantastic!


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## Click-N-Treat

I had a trial experience that may have ended Noelle's rally career. I am unsure how to move forward from here. We were at a crowded show. 22 entries in Master in ring 1, 24 entries in Master in ring 2. Both trials ran concurrently. Master in trial 1 started at 8:00. Master in ring 2 started at 8:30. 

When I arrived at the trial, my first worry was Noelle would show in master in ring 1, and I'd have minutes before the second trial walkthrough started. That's not what happened. The ring gates were put together so there was a foot between the two rings. The first five dogs in Trial 1 got to do Master with no one in ring 2. Then my number was called... at the exact same moment the walkthrough started in Ring 2. 

23 people entered ring two and started doing the walkthrough a foot away from the start of our Master run in ring 1. The level of distraction in ring 2 was so intense, Noelle didn't want to sit at the start, or do the first two signs. It was ridiculous! I've trained and proofed for one dog and handler in the ring next to us, not 23 people wandering around bending and spinning. 

To me, it was unfair. Five dogs got to do rally with zero distractions next to them. Noelle got to rally with maximum distractions in the ring next to us. I wasn't surprised Noelle melted down. I asked to be excused and was excused. I brought Noelle back to her crate and joined the master walkthrough. I decided to regroup and try again. I walked the course in ring two and returned to my crate. I got Noelle out to warm her up with some little games. Things were going well.

Then 20 feet from us, a GSD was trying to exit the building with his handler. Out of nowhere, a Dalmatian shot out of a room, grabbed the GSD and started a huge loud fight. Dal's handler did not have the leash. The fight went on and on. I crammed Noelle in her crate and waited until the fight stopped. Finally the Dal's owner got ahold of the leash. It was a terrible thing to witness. I don't know if either dog was hurt, or if it was just drama, but they weren't play fighting. This was for real. The dog's owners got the dogs apart.

After a deep breath, the trial resumed as if nothing happened. Noelle was reluctant to come out of her crate. I got her out and tried to play with her and engage. She did, but was looking around anxiously and struggling to focus. I got some solid eye contact and then our number was called to go into ring 2. I took Noelle into ring two, took off her leash and she bolted out of the ring. I called her back, the judge handed me my leash, and Noelle dragged me back to her crate. 

I packed up my stuff and left the trial. Noelle was relieved to be going. I was furious and worried sick that this experience ruined Noelle's rally. Then I was worried she was too freaked out to work as a service dog. I took her to the grocery store. She was nervous about the carts banging, but shook that off and did her job as always. Thank goodness! We spent a long time wandering the aisles. Our telepathic bond is still there. I thought of a cue I wanted her to do, and she did it before I spoke. I got home and gave her a massage and a huge pile of chicken treats.

Today I took Noelle to work. We have an empty ring all to ourselves every Sunday morning. I spent the time running around with a tug toy, playing silly chase games. She had a lot of fun. I did my classes, Noelle wasn't as solid a demo dog as she usually is. Then we did rally. Noelle didn't want anything to do with rally. When I opened the door, she looked inside the ring, led me back to her crate and stayed there. Second time, I didn't try to do any rally other than the jumps and chasing a tug toy around rally signs. She was successful with that. Jumps remain fun and Mr. Fox is fun, too. 

All of my students know Noelle and they all noticed she wasn't herself. She's not herself. She's jumpy and nervous. I'm heartbroken for her and unsure what the future holds. I'm going to try and rehabilitate Noelle with play and see if I can make rally fun for her again. Right now, she's fearful in the ring. Rally doesn't feel safe anymore. Is this a setback or the end of her show career? I don't know. I do know I'm sad that something she loved doing isn't making her happy anymore. And I'm sad that something I loved doing with my dog is broken right now.


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## 94Magna_Tom

Sorry to hear this. I hope it's just a setback and Noelle will bounce back soon.


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## TeamHellhound

Well, that sucks. I hope it doesn't permanently affect her. 

And here's hoping that the lady with the Dal got a bench hearing and the dog got DQed.


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## PeggyTheParti

I feel so sad for you and Noelle, and so mad, too. I’m sorry, Click.  This just stinks.


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## Raven's Mom

Wow, that sounds like very poor planning on the part of the host club. I’m so sorry you had such a yucky experience. I am confident in your patient training ability behaving you will get her attitude back. However, it is a pity the trial committee didn’t think that through any better ahead of time


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Skylar

Oh no, poor Noelle and I’m sure she was feeling your tension and concern in addition to what she felt. (((Hugs))). She’s sensitive and this jangled her nerves. 

I‘m guessing with some time, playing games inside the ring, high value treats and patience she and you will work your way out of this. It does feel awful when you think of all the training and plans you had to stop and regroup.

Does any club hold trials with one ring and good crating space? My AKC club has two buildings so they do one ring in each building with crating space. Another AKC club I like to trial at also does one ring. They used to do two and had little room to crate but got so many complaints. I’m hoping you can find a trial like that. With one ring there’s less people, less chaos, less dogs etc. It’s calmer, less like a three ring circus.

My club has run throughs every month where they have two rings in each building - huge difference in the chaos and atmosphere.

I hope Noelle and you are back to feeling confident and comfortable in the ring.


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## fjm

Poor Noelle and poor you. Having read that it can take weeks rather than days for stress hormones to return to normal levels after a shocking experience I can understand her wariness around anything related to the two horrible things that happened. I'd just listen to her, as I know you will, and take the recovery at her pace. But it is very sad that something that brought you both so much joy has been changed into a source of fear and anxiety by the actions of an inept committee and a stupid dog owner.


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## lily cd re

Click and I already talked through a lot of this over the weekend, so she won't be surprised much by what I will say here but I will comment on a few things for the benefit of all who are following at this point.

First, yes it sucked that all this happened at once. It is too much than most dogs and handlers could recover from during the trials. And I agree that the ring set up wasn't good. But, this kind of stuff happens and while it is really hard to proof for it is something to at least prepare yourself for so that you know what to do with your dog to keep them with you. Lily and I have had this sort of stuff happen more than once and even with Javelin I took him in for a beginner novice trial about 10-15 minutes after a toller went after him. He spent a lot of time trying to make sure he knew where that dog was, but I used my "extra orders" and took some points off along the way and Qd. It was an ugly score, but I was happy he never got totally disconnected and that he toughed it out.

As to the dog fight, there are a lot of people who don't pay close enough attention to their dogs at shows and trials. I saw a dog fight at a recent trial and it could have been totally avoided had the handlers actually been looking at their dogs. A big factor in these things is often due to handlers with green dogs entering them too soon. I have also had problems with poor/naive handling and jerky dogs allowed to get away with too much. A Vizsla with a stupid (and I mean stupid) handler recently scared the heck out of Lily right before her class and scared her out of a Q. I was mad but have a dog who is willing to shrug these things off if I do (which I have).

For those like me, Click, Skylar and the rest of you who show be super patient with your dogs. Don't train hard to get back too fast. Play games, give plenty of time for your dog to rebuild positive associations with your sport and return to working the sport when your dog tells you they are ready for it. Either they will show you that or they won't. If they don't ever want to go back, so be it. Don't break their trust in you. It broke my heart when Lily told me she didn't want to do utility obedience, but I did listen to her and she is happy to be my rally queen.


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## Click-N-Treat

I'm thinking through how to retrain Noelle that rally is fun and safe. On Thursdays, I teach two back to back rally classes, a competition obedience class, then a manners class. No one signed up for competition obedience. So, for the next six weeks, I have a gigantic gap between classes. I have a ring, jumps and an opportunity to rehab. My plan is to play with Noelle in the ring. Race her to the jump, toss treats for her to chase, tug with Mr. Fox, run away with Mr. Fox, and remind Noelle that the ring is where we have the best time ever. 

Alternate between one minute of vigorous play and several minutes of relaxation on a mat. When that is going well, alternate between vigorous play, five steps of heeling, more vigorous play, relax on a mat. Eventually, I'll put out some rally signs for us to pretend to do. Every sign is her favorite sign. Every sign is an invitation to play with me. If she gets it right, we play. If she gets it wrong, we play. From now until Noelle is ready for more, Noelle can do no wrong in the ring. 

I'm pulling Noelle out of the rally classes at my training club. The classes are too intense and the environment is too chaotic for what Noelle needs right now. We'll take a few weeks off and I'll bring her back. If she's tail wagging and enjoying herself, awesome. If she's not, we leave. Noelle directs how this goes. Will we ever trial again? I don't know. Noelle is the only one who knows.


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## lily cd re

That is the way to go! Nothing formal, all about fun and replacing bad memories with good ones. You are clever and so is Noelle. You've got this!


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## Johanna

Click, I'm so sorry that happened. My only contribution is to tell you an experience we had in agility class. Zoe was on the field doing quite well when two Siberian huskies broke away from their owner and started chasing her with obvious intent to kill. Blessedly our trainer was able to grab Zoe and pick her up and turn her back on the huskies. I was really afraid that it would put Zoe off agility, but after the owner of the two huskies put them in crates away from the field (where they should have been in the first place), we did another run and all was well. I have not been back to class in ages due to COVID, so we will see if Zoe is still confident there.

I think you are going to be able to help Noelle get over this just fine and you two will be a confident team again. Blessings.


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## Starla

That sounds like a great plan. I’m sorry y’all had such an awful experience.


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle isn't shaking this off as easily as Zoe appeared to, unfortunately. Yesterday at Rally class, Noelle wanted nothing to do with rally and stared at the exit door when she heard a dog whining. She wouldn't sit at the start sign. I took her out and she ran back into her crate. She got badly frightened by everything connected to rally. I'm going to have to work to help her over this setback.


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## lily cd re

Slow and steady, embrace your inner tortoise.


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## Johanna

Click-N-Treat said:


> Noelle isn't shaking this off as easily as Zoe appeared to, unfortunately. Yesterday at Rally class, Noelle wanted nothing to do with rally and stared at the exit door when she heard a dog whining. She wouldn't sit at the start sign. I took her out and she ran back into her crate. She got badly frightened by everything connected to rally. I'm going to have to work to help her over this setback.


Hang in there, Click. I am so very sorry that happened to Noelle. Let's hope it will resolve sooner than later.


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## Click-N-Treat

Inner tortoise. Yes, I like that. I'll set timers on my watch to insure I keep to a tortoise pace. One minute of hard play and a three minute break ought to help her experience happy emotional arousal and peaceful calm reset, which is what I want. She needs both to make progress.


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## lily cd re

Don't forget to set your inner tortoise to be lazy on the calendar and not just the clock. The tortoise might not want to pay much attention to 2021 for further trials. 

In the Brenda Aloff world of training, if something has gone off the rails, one should plan for 6000+ correct executions of a "broken" behaviors to truly fix the problem. It will take a lot of work to undo the PTSD of what happened last weekend, said not to discourage anyone trying anything, but rather being realistic to get to where one wants to be. There is work needed for both Click and Noelle to do to get over how horrible this all was for them. They will do it if they take their time.

fixed typos


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## Raven's Mom

Lily, do you think that would necessarily still be true with Spoos? It takes so many fewer reps for them to master without getting bored and start assuming they should change things up on us! I know I’m no where near the level trainer you and Click are, but I would struggle with getting that many reps in any reasonable time frame with mine because I can’t repetitively drill a skill like I did with my collies. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## For Want of Poodle

That sounds awful, poor Noelle!!! 

Annie and I are preparing for our first trial this fall. It's being run by CARO, not CKC, so has slightly different rules. It's online based on video submissions (because covid) but the training facility we use is going to set up the courses in our usual ring and film for the students so it will be a bit more trial like than doing it at home. 

Click - assuming Noelle eventually agrees that rally (in her safe, familiar environment) can be fun again, I wonder if there is another organization you could trial with in the US in Novice to work on getting Noelle's confidence with trialling back, prior to restarting Masters? Something super easy and super non-stressful because it doesn't MATTER that you qualify since you did novice long ago? The nice thing about CARO here is that apparently there doesn't tend to be multiple rings even at non-virtual trials because it's just a rally organization, no simultaneous other events running, plus a few treats can be given in the ring in Novice, too, so it's a really gentle introduction to trialling for beginners like me and Annie. I wonder if something similar might be a gentle reintroduction for Noelle.


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## Skylar

I love “tortoise time”. Click you have a great plan with having the empty ring to work in.

For Want of a Poodle the WCRL rally allows treatsin the first level but only in stationary signs. They tend to have one ring and are smaller more friendly crowds. I’ve competed on both and there’s some minor annoying differences between the two so you have to pay close attention if you compete in both.


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## Click-N-Treat

There aren’t any local trials in other rally organizations around me. Honestly, trialing again isn’t on my radar. My main goal now is rebuilding Noelle’s confidence. It got badly shaken. My rally trainer said to give her a few weeks off before coming back to class. Agreed. In the meantime, we are going to play and rebuild. What I love most about training for trials is it prevents me from being lazy in my relationship with my dog. I can’t take her training for granted and set everything on automatic pilot. We practice and strive together. And together we will find our way forward.


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## TeamHellhound

Once you have her feeling better about it again, I would suggest that you check out Cyber Rally-O if you want to dip your toes back into competition. You can video on your own schedule, and in whatever location you are comfortable in.


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## Carolinek

I’m so sorry to hear this Click. It sounds like some time off to recover is a good plan. 
I hope you’re able to keep up with training in some form. Take of yourself.


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## lily cd re

Reraven, yes you can't use a plan that involves repetitive drilling. spoos, being often too smart for such things will do all sorts of creative thinking to make new messes out of many aspects of this kind of training, won't they? To fit in many good reps I train both Javelin and Lily by doing one thing well three or four times at the most making sure I end with a good execution. I then do something fun for a little bit (what is fun depends on which dog I have). Then I do 3-4 reps of something else. Then fun. Then I often go back to the first exercise. 

For Lily I might just work jumps which are very self rewarding for her and then I will put her on a down and do something with Javelin for a few minutes. Then I bring him back out for a while (as above). I would then probably do all the versions of back up 3 steps with and without the pivots and the back up 3 steps to a stand stay. Then Lily gets her rest period. If I then think Lily is done for the day I either play tug with her or throw her dumbbell since she loves retrieves.

Yesterday I took Javelin to my club to rent and work on my own. There was a person there who opened up and turned on the AC when I got there. She had her dog with her so I took advantage of their presence to do some focus work and a bit of heeling, but rather than a whole pattern I just did starts, halts and turns. I then did retrieve on the flat. That is a super high value exercise but sometimes he rolls the dumbbell on his way back and he doesn't always have the prettiest fronts so once I got two great fronts and he got treats we stopped. He loves retrieving so much we didn't need a game. I put him on a down stay and set up a crazy thing with "obstacles" to slow Javvy down for getting to the article pile and did three reps of scent discrimination. He did just what I wanted and so we called it a day. I cleaned up the equipment then played tug for a minute and we went home. Today I will be back at club and will do scent again since today I will have a helper to make it more normal looking as a picture. We will also do some distraction avoidance (focus work) and that will probably be it. It will take a long time to get all the good reps in, but if you aren't fixing things you will get away with fewer overall reps.


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## Skylar

Click, I hope you document here what you are doing with Noelle to rehab her - I think we all have something to learn from your experience. This can happen to any dog - pet or dog sport dog.


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## Click-N-Treat

Actually, I am planning on taking Dealing With The Boogieman at Fenzi. It's a play therapy class for stressed and worried dogs. I think learning to use play to help Noelle deal with stress is a good idea. She's a playful dog at heart. Last night we played off and on for an hour. Get the hands under the blanket is particularly fun if you ask Noelle. I pretended to bite her toes, and she tried to stop me, and it was a tail wagging good time. And we played a lot with Mr. Fox, of course. Right now, Noelle is relaxed and happy. My goal is to keep it that way.


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## PowersPup

I am just doing simple obedience and nose work training with Topper, so I have years to go before I reach the levels that many of you have attained. But one thing that does apply to our baby levels is the importance of looking out for your dog. Topper never liked the slippery floors in one fo the training rooms. I used foot shaves, Show Foot and lots of confidence-building exercises to help him deal with them. Then one day in Level 4 Obedience, there were just too many triggers and Topper fell apart. In addition to the floor, two of the other dogs were barking; one dog kept staring at Topper; the trainers weren't familiar with us, etc. Topper pancaked near the end of the class and I felt horrible about pushing him too far. Since then, we have done a few virtual classes (via Zoom) and he has done very well. He does fine with the barking border collies in nose work class. It's a matter of triggers layering upon each other. Your posts reinforce the importance of being sensitive to Topper's triggers and desensitize him very slowly, engaging my inner tortoise along the way.


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## TeamHellhound

I've heard really good things about Amy's class. I might go ahead and take it this session for Simon. He's five months old today, and has been in something of a fear period the past few weeks.


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## Streetcar

Click-N-Treat, I was so sad and angry reading what happened at that trial. You will help Noel mend and that play class sounds so great. Kisses to your sweet girlie 🥰.


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## Click-N-Treat

Today I took Noelle to rally class. I set up the course and took Noelle before my students arrived. She was focused, intense, and a whole lot of fun. Then, my students came. Since I only have two students in my first class, they always insist Noelle gets a turn so they can rest their dogs. During her turn, Noelle lagged, was looking over her shoulder, and wasn't able to focus. I immediately stopped doing rally and just played in the ring with her for a while. During my second rally class Noelle just hung out in her crate. 

No one signed up for my beginning competitive obedience class, so I have a hole in my schedule from 1:15 to 3:00. After getting lunch, I took Noelle in the middle of the empty ring. I had Mr. Fox and a mat for her to lie down on. I sat on the floor and played with Mr. Fox. I pretended he was a running squirrel and played keep away, which she loved. Then she got him and played tug. Take a break on the mat, and then repeat. Chase the toy over my leg and tug. 

Some dogs in another class got into a barking argument. She stopped playing for two seconds, shrugged and went back to playing. That was exactly what I wanted her to do. Notice and then dismiss it. All in all it was a good day. I signed up for the Dealing With The Boogieman class at Fenzi. It starts on August 1. I am looking forward to getting started.


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## Starla

That sounds like such a good day!!


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## Click-N-Treat

Sunday morning classes showed some improvement. We started the morning playing with a squeaky toy like we did on Thursday. I pretended the toy was a squirrel and she chased him all over the place. Then I threw him and ran away. Noelle grabbed the toy, chased after me happily and we played tug. I added in heeling games and she loved that. Great fun was had.

Later on, during Rally when there were were other dogs in the building, Noelle lagged behind me. I sent her over the jump several times, played with toys, had her do some fun spins, and brought her out. She was still way off her game, but happier than the week before. Little by little, inch by inch, it's getting better.


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## Asta's Mom

Glad Mr Fox has re-appeared.


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## Click-N-Treat

She won’t play with Mr. Fox around other dogs. This lets me know she’s still feeling uneasy in the rally ring when dogs are outside the gate. It also explains the lagging. Hopefully my Fenzi class homework helps with that.


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## Skylar

It’s good you are seeing improvement and you are listening to her and going at her pace.

I understand the students need a break and want you to run Noelle, but you could use the time to go over some technical details such as the official definition of heeling. People use this as a synonym of loose leash walking which it’s not. Isolate the steps to cue the dog for fast and slow or work on a particular sign that’s tricky like back up in heel.


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## lily cd re

I would not do anything yet where Noelle shows stress. So I think I would not do anything with dogs outside the ring yet if I found one of my dogs showing that it was making them nervous. I would suggest if you take a break in the class to give the student teams do a few things in the ring on their own (time them) and keep Noelle outside the ring but able to watch and look at her stress there. If she acts nervous then play a game or move her further away rather than having her go past the threshold of worrying that she has been showing.


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## Click-N-Treat

She was much better on Sunday, all of my students were commenting on the difference. We'll see where she's at on Thursday. Believe me, there's no pressure. Go in the ring, play around with Mom, and leave happy. On Thursday, my students are all Master level and don't need my help. They need me to set up a course and leave them to it. It's a run-through not a real class.


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## Johanna

Click-N-Treat said:


> Today I took Noelle to rally class. I set up the course and took Noelle before my students arrived. She was focused, intense, and a whole lot of fun. Then, my students came. Since I only have two students in my first class, they always insist Noelle gets a turn so they can rest their dogs. During her turn, Noelle lagged, was looking over her shoulder, and wasn't able to focus. I immediately stopped doing rally and just played in the ring with her for a while. During my second rally class Noelle just hung out in her crate.
> 
> No one signed up for my beginning competitive obedience class, so I have a hole in my schedule from 1:15 to 3:00. After getting lunch, I took Noelle in the middle of the empty ring. I had Mr. Fox and a mat for her to lie down on. I sat on the floor and played with Mr. Fox. I pretended he was a running squirrel and played keep away, which she loved. Then she got him and played tug. Take a break on the mat, and then repeat. Chase the toy over my leg and tug.
> 
> Some dogs in another class got into a barking argument. She stopped playing for two seconds, shrugged and went back to playing. That was exactly what I wanted her to do. Notice and then dismiss it. All in all it was a good day. I signed up for the Dealing With The Boogieman class at Fenzi. It starts on August 1. I am looking forward to getting started.


That was a great way to help Noelle regain her confidence. By the way, did you get Mr. Fox at a PetsMart store? Zoe's fox is her very favorite toy. I save him for training sessions only so he remains "special".


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## Click-N-Treat

I have lots of squeaky flat foxes. They are the unstuffed variety. Noelle adores chasing them around.


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## Click-N-Treat

Today, Noelle and I did rally at work and it was just like old times. Nosework class was going on beyond the ring gate. There were barking dogs, people clapping and cheering. Noelle filtered it all out and stayed with me in heel position and just had a tail wagging good time. I had tears in my eyes seeing my girlie acting like herself. It felt fantastic to enjoy my dog at my side instead of worrying about her. Stand Leave Down Call Front Finish Sit remains one of her favorite signs and double left about turn was solid. Pivots, all of it, clean and smooth. I saw on video her tail was up and wagging.

I brought chopped up pieces of meatballs as reinforcement. Could that have been it? Maybe she was craving Italian food. Whatever it was, it felt just... Ah. That's my dog. Yeah, that's my dog.


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## Skylar

meatball are magical but so is your connection with Noelle.


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## 94Magna_Tom

Sounds like a breakthrough! Sheeee's baaack!


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## fjm

Lovely update! A few more weeks of fun to cement it, and very careful selection of venues to progress it, I think?


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## Click-N-Treat

Exactly, FJM. I haven't even considered trialing again. Right now all of my focus is on making sure Noelle is happy and having fun in the ring.


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## Click-N-Treat

I last updated this thread 16 days ago. Before the dog attack at the show, I'd submitted entries at two trials. One was in the same building as the attack, so I skipped that trial. The second was at a new place with my own rally instructor as the judge for the first two trials, and another judge who I heard rave reviews about for the third trial. Do I skip it? Go? Skip it?

Rally practice has been going smoothly and Noelle seemed to be improving? Stay home? Go? There were only 8 dogs entered in Master, so not a huge trial. I decided to go. I booked a swanky hotel room for Saturday night. So, even if everything in the trial went up in flames, at least Noelle and I would have a fun retreat. Noelle loves hotels. I booked her as first name: Noelle. Last name Service Dog.

We arrived at the trial and got set up. Everything seemed quite normal. Before master, we walked up to the ring gate and I took off Noelle's leash. She looked at the lady who took her leash as if she'd stolen her soul. Oh no. Noelle wouldn't sit at the start line. Oh no. I took off heeling and she... lagged half a sign behind me. Oh no. About a third of the way through the course, we came to Halt Pivot Left Forward. I waited for my pokey puppy to catch up with me. I waited ten thousand years for her to remember how to sit. Then I said, "Swing it, sister."
Noelle leapt into the air, spun around to the left in precision and heeled forward. Her tail was up and wagging. Next sign. Next sign... Finish. And we qualified. Our score was 80. No points, but we qualified. Yahoo!

Excellent... Same ring, same judge, same leash taker. And... same Noelle acting like the leash taker was going to set fire to her tail. She wouldn't sit at the start line.
Judge (who is my rally instructor): Do you just want to start her from a stand?
"Okay."
"Are you ready?"
"Ready."
Lag half a sign behind me. Back up three steps. Back, back, and why are you pointing your butt the wrong direction, back. About turn right, about u turn... over the jump. Then we got to another left pivot. An hour and 45 minutes later when Noelle sat, I said, "Swing it, sister!" And she swung her back end left in perfect rhythm. And her tail wagged. And she gave me a cheeky grin. I winked, she grinned, and we did rally together and it was fun. We got a 93.

Advanced... Same ring, same judge, same leash taker. And... same Noelle looking horrified that someone stole her leash. Here we go again. Lagging behind me. Catch up, do the sign, lag again, slow sits. But mostly accurate. Final score 94.

TQ #14. Complete. Whoo hoo. Go rest in the car.

Trial two. We won't speak of what happened in the master ring. It wasn't pretty. It netted us a 71. It was so bad I actually thought we NQed and I was pleasantly surprised we got low dog in trial. Low dog in trial is perfectly fine with me. A Q is a Q.

Excellent... After some more fear of the leash stealer, and more stress with the start, we got going. Every sign was Noelle's favorite sign. Another pivot left. "Swing it, sister!" Kerpow! She swung into heel with tail wagging joy. Down while heeling call to finish, sit. Another favorite. Down, pow. "Stay." She stayed. "Around." Noelle sprinted around behind me and sat in heel. Favorite sign after favorite sign.. We scored 97!

Everyone in the room applauded and cheered when I got my leash. Then they gave out ribbons and Noelle won 4th place! Not 4th place out of four teams, either. The cheering from everyone was awesome.

Advanced... I was sitting in my chair watching the trial and lost track of when I was next. Noelle and I were playing games. Whoops! I sprinted us toward the ring. Took off the leash and we were off. We were connected. It felt like we were connected. Best run of the day. We scored a 94. Little mistakes, but it felt wonderful to just do rally with her and for her to be with me and not lagging. And we got to pivot left again. Noelle was very happy about that.

TQ #15. 22 championship points. Happy day. Two TQ's in one day.

We went to our swanky hotel. Fifth floor. Glass elevators. Nice view. King bed, nice suite. I had dinner and beer. Noelle had dinner and played with a squeaky toy on my lap.










Which she promptly beheaded and eviscerated.

I slept badly. Woke up every hour worried I'd be late to the trial. We packed up and headed off for Sunday. Can we TQ one more time?

New judge. Lovely funny woman who has poodles. Awesome!

Master... Noelle entered the ring absolutely certain she was about to be ritually sacrificed when I took off her leash and handed it off. Again, lag, lag, lag, oh, I know this sign. I like this one too. Hey, this could be fun. Pivot left! "Swing it, sister." Yay! Oh, fun! More of her favorite signs, including go to the cone and sit. She went to the cone, gave it a good sniff, and then sat. Good girl. Score, 86.

Excellent... I removed Noelle's leash. She appeared stunned I would do such a thing. I am sensing a theme here. First sign, back up three steps. Darn. But, every other sign was her favorite again, including, you guessed it, Pivot Left. "Swing it, sister!" She did her happy dance. Moving stand. Stand this and stand that and Noelle can stand all the live long day. Final score... another 97 and another fourth place! And lots and lots of cheering.

Advanced. Okey-dokey Noelle. Once more with feeling. There were 8 sits on this course. Sit side step sit. Sit, circle, sit. Slow heel from a sit. OH SIT! I resorted to singing, "If you're happy and you know it you will sit." She sat. Final score, 93.

TQ #16. 12 championship points. Weekend total: 34. We now have enough RAE points for our championship. We need 126 points from master and four more TQ's.

I am so glad we went to this trial. It cleared away a lot of stress and uncertainty. It also showed me where I need to focus in the Dealing With The Boogieman class: leash removal stress, judge stress, and start line stress. That's what my course will focus on. I want taking the leash off to be a cue for fun and calm focus. Once I have that sorted... we'll be back trialing. Oh yes, we'll be back!
Swing it, sister!


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## Asta's Mom

Love Noelle with her ribbons. Congrats to you both.


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## 94Magna_Tom

Congratulations to you and Noelle! Sounds like she's getting back into the swing of it! She looks so proud with all her ribbons!


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## Skylar

Huge congratulations, for all the problems you managed to do very well. You also know where to focus now.

As for the leash and scary leash takers, if that happens again you can ask just before you go into the ring if you can take the leash off and leave it at the gate (on the gate, a chair nearby, the floor or even on the leash holder) and the leash taker can place it once you’re further into the ring. Or tell the leash collector to stand behind you and once you take the leash off move it behind your back All the while you are looking at your dog. It’s not uncommon for dogs to get unsettled when the leash taker comes right up to their space to grab the leash.


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## Click-N-Treat

Ring entry and immediate pressure from two strangers being so close upsets her. But, what I don't understand is I can enter a crowded Target store with Noelle and she ignores strangers easily. I can enter a crowded elevator full of strangers and she doesn't mind that, either. Her service dog manners and work ethic is beautiful. Ring skills are just... gah, would you just sit? We're going to use our time away from Rally to work on fast sits in all conditions.

The first two signs in our final Excellent and Advanced was spiral dog inside, and serpentine weave once. It was set up with six cones in the shape of a backward letter L. Two cones left, four cones straight ahead. Spiral, circle the last spiral cone, and immediately go straight ahead into the serpentine weave. I'd never seen that before, and Noelle enjoyed it. It's clever!

I just realized just the scores this weekend qualified us for Rally Nationals in Excellent and Advanced. Three scores above 93 in both. Good girl. My plan, once we have banished the boogieman, and have fast sits, is to TQ up to #19 and then stop and focus exclusively on Master. Then RACH will require one more TQ without worrying about scores. 

To set Noelle up for success, I'll stick to smaller trials and familiar judges. I want to win my RACH under the judge I showed to on Sunday. She has everyone do a ridiculous new title dance. And even though we need a boat load of high scores, if we can get a 97 in Excellent we can get a 97 in Master. We just need to get rid of the boogieman.

One thing happened this weekend for me: I was able to banish the boogieman from my own heart. And that means a lot to me.


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## lily cd re

Going to Target is part of the every day life she has become very accustomed to and for which you took years to train on. Entering a trial ring is not routine and has a whole different energy not just for Noelle, but from you as well. You don't worry over going into Target, but I know you worry about going into a trial ring, right?

Getting rid of your worries is part of what is and will continue to get Noelle past hers.


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## Click-N-Treat

Good point! I was thinking along those lines yesterday night. When we go assorted places, I just expect a certain set of behaviors, and I get them. When we go in the ring I don't have the same expectations. I have 19 years of experience in handling a service dog. I have only a few years of rally experience. It's an entirely different skill set, one I am bumbling my way forward with. And my bumbling is throwing off my dog. Handler error and handler nerves are not helping us at all. She's not the only one dealing with the boogieman.


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## lily cd re

Once you banish your boogieman I bet Noelle's bad vibes will also vanish into thin air. I don't generally have boogieman issues. But if I feel off I make mistakes (like what happened Friday night when I hadn't eaten all day). Lily has no worries about trials and does exactly what I tell her to even if I am wrong. She almost always gets a 100 if you score her for following orders. Me not so much, but not out of nerves.


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## Click-N-Treat

I think you are right.


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## Johanna

Hooray for Click and Noelle! You are beating the boogers!


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## Skylar

I'm amazed at Noelle doing well in a glass elevator - Babykins is petrified of those. I have to keep her looking at the back where the door is so she has something solid to look at.... and looking out the glass at the moving view. Kudos for Noelle and your training.


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## Click-N-Treat

My Fenzi class is helpful. We're working on some play skills to reduce stress. One place I train has dogs in nose work who are reactive. There's usually a few dogs who go ballistic somewhere in the building, but not close to where we are working. It's good for Noelle to get a chance to hear it, notice it, and then let it go. For a while there dogs barking made her freeze. We have quite a bit of rehab and training ahead of us, but we have time.


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## Click-N-Treat

Because sometimes I get in training ruts and drill the same things over and over, I decided to shake things up with Noelle. We added some Heelwork to Music in our practice. Noelle loves it. I can work on different rally moves, and leg weaves, and heeling and be very light and silly with her. Mostly, she's relaxing and acting more and move like her old self. It's good to have her back with me. We still have more training to do but at least I know we're on the right track and heading in the right direction.


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## Skylar

It's wonderful to hear that Noelle is loving it. When we heel to music especially much loved music, it just makes us, the handler joyful. Noelle picks up that joy from you.


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## Click-N-Treat

Yup. It's just fun. And we needed fun in our training.


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## Skylar

I think back to so many of the classes I took with Babykins for Novice - it was just grim heeling - up and down, about turn and down and up. Then the dreaded right/left turns called randomly and I get petrified and can't figure out which direction to turn ... this reminds me I need to not fall into this trap with Theo. I'm going to spend more time heeling to fun music, the kind I want to sing or hum along to and makes me smile.


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## Click-N-Treat

Yes, absolutely. Heeling is dynamic and fun, not grim and boring. If you think of heel work as dance moves, and train it as a dance, the dog enjoys the process because you're loose and happy.


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## Mfmst

Approve of the swank hotel! Not usually an option for Spoo’s. You and Noelle are doing great. Being a service dog is way more plaudit worthy than performance sports, at the end of the day. Noelle is a Renaissance Dog, capable of doing it all. Congratulations, keep going😍👏🏻


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## Click-N-Treat

After doing some brainstorming with Catherine about how to start rally and set Noelle up for success, I got a chance to try it for real. Two of my students acted as judge and leash taker. I entered the ring and set up sideways, parallel from the start sign. I took off Noelle's leash. I cued a left pivot and Noelle happily pivoted into heel so we were ready to start. And from there we were off. On our first run, Noelle stayed with me happily and we had a good time. Second time through, I didn't have any treats with me. We had a judge following us through the course, too. Noelle did very nicely even without me having treats. Super!

I'm going to work on start behavior a whole lot, but taking off the leash and then pivoting left really helped focus Noelle's brain. She's a very happy girlie these days.


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## lily cd re

Click i am very happy to hear that the new ring entry routine sounds like it will work for you. For those who might be wondering what this was all about it is meant to routinize the set up to work whiile keeping connected to the dog. Since Noelle loves making left pivots we decided it would be a good way to set her up at the start line with a little playfulness that would keep her from surveying the ring and getting away from handler focus to a feeling of worry. Keep up the good work! And until it is well patterned pay her well.


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## Skylar

I love this plan - making it fun for her to enter and set up. Very creative Catherine.


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## lily cd re

If you start from a great place you will do well, but if you start with worries not much good is likely to come of it.


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## Click-N-Treat

I'll be trialing in early November. So, I have a month to work on some things she needs help with. A ring entry routine that she can count on makes a big difference. Always entering the ring and standing sideways. Always removing the leash parallel to the start sign, and always pivoting left into our READY position will help a lot.

Practicing having two people she doesn’t know meet us in the ring, removing the leash, and swinging left, is awesome. My rally classes are so small that my students want me to give Noelle a turn so they can rest their dogs. Plus she demonstrates signs for them.

Two things I have noticed about Noelle in trials is she worries at the start line, and doesn’t like to sit. Sit is one cue I forget to heavily reinforce. Back up 3 steps earns chicken. Sit gets nothing. Guess which behavior breaks down under trial conditions? Hint, it’s not back up three steps.


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## lily cd re

I just thought of something else for you to think about (although it may not matter to Noelle). Lily went through a phase where she was sort of possessive of her leash. It was after she had gotten frightened by a rottie and I think she felt the leash being returned to us was a signal that she would be safe since it would mean she was physically connected to me. In an advanced trial she actually left me after we crossed the finish line and went to the judge who had the leash and tried to take it from her. I explained to the judge what was going on and she pointed me to a group of rotties just outside the ring. She is a friend so was very understanding. After that I found that I had to hide my hand off at the start line so she wouldn't be thinking about where the leash was. I started folding the leash in my right hand and sticking my arm out behind me and I still do that when there is a leash steward even now. If I have a chance to tell the leash steward before we go in I do, if I didn't have that chance I just stand there offering the leash from my right hand held behind me until they take it. As I said, Noelle may not care about this but Lily sure did for a long time. I think she doesn't care too much any more but why break something by changing a pattern that works?


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## Click-N-Treat

The leash is Noelle's security blanket. I noticed that after she witnessed that dog attack in July. We re-started rally on leash and that was the bridge she needed to get back into the swing of things. Noelle is aware of patterns in exquisite detail. She likes routines and knowing what to expect. I think that's why trialing is so hard for her. We didn't have a solid ring entry routine. Without it, I left her in limbo, unsure what was coming next. She was always focused on the room and not on me. The addition of a sit, leash off, pivot left, sit, ready, go is fantastic. Noelle is going to know what to expect and be able to relax in the routine. 

Pivot left is such a heavily reinforced, heavily rewarded behavior, the cue itself is enough to make Noelle happy. She loves to swing left. By starting rally doing her favorite rally sign, I've already reinforced her.


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## fjm

Interesting what you both say about the leash making a dog feel secure. It is something I have noticed with Sophy too - walking where she has recently heard bangs from shooting she is much happier if she has me safely attached to her on a 6' leash. We tend to think of it as an instrument for human control over the dog, and forget how it might make the dog feel they have just a little more certainty their human will stay close.


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## lily cd re

With Lily I almost never close my hand on her leash and it isn't a control tool, but more about connection and communication just like you are finding with Sophy fjm. If I see something I don't like headed our way I do take a firmer hand on leash and I even give a little pop to let her know I am right there and I've been watching too. For Lily after she feels the pop I generally see her body language relax right away.


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## Click-N-Treat

Discoveries on back up three steps today at class. Noelle backs up straight one step, juts out left on the second step, and by the third step, her nose is pointing toward my knee. Today I discovered if I put a treat on Noelle's nose, and turn her head way, way, way, left, she walks backward perfectly straight. So, I'm going to train turn her head left as a trick. "Head!" Swivel head left. Then we'll do heel and "head." Then we'll do heel, "head," and back up. Break up those rally behaviors into their component parts and train each part.

We've worked hard on call front signs. I discovered Noelle likes jumping straight up in the air. So, why not use her poodle bounce to leap her into front? Jump front! Boing! Jumps from heel position and lands in front. The sit signs in rally are finally an invitation to do something more interesting, rather than a cue to look around the room. 

Today was a lot of fun. Noelle was bursting with enthusiasm when she saw I put my rally box by the front door. She barked, jumped, spun around and was nearly too insane to put a collar on. I like seeing her excited about rally. We will trial again in January. I'm looking forward to it.


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## Click-N-Treat

Back from a trial. I've popped the cork on champaign. Catherine and I did some private lessons and they paid off today. We did a back to back triple qualifying run. Master, Excellent, Advanced in Trial 1 and Master, Excellent and Advanced in Trial 2. That's six entries in the same day. I learned a whole lot and I have a lot to celebrate.

Going into the trial, my goal was qualify in Master, get points in Excellent and Advanced. That plan didn't work out. Instead we got six points in Master on our first run of the day. No points in Excellent because Noelle didn't want to sit/stay at the end. And we got six points in Advanced. Second trial, Noelle went in and drilled the Master course again! Six more points and 4th place with more than four dogs competing. A grand total of 18 points!

Then the wheels fell off. In Excellent, there was a sit, down, sit. Noelle sat, then did a looooong bow, and stood up. We repeated the sign, and she did a looooong body stretch forward instead of lying down. 10 points off. I just laughed. She nailed the sit stay at the end, though. No points for us. Last run of the day was Advanced and Noelle was exhausted. We made a gazillion little mistakes. Then a helicopter flew over the building and rattled the walls. Noelle just stood there like, huh, what was that? I stopped doing rally and decided to just be silly with her for a second. She came back and finished the course. No points, but who cares.

I learned! I learned that six entries in the same day is way too many for Noelle. The good news is, she has 18 triple qualifying scores out of 20 needed for Rally Champion. There is a poodle only show in Ohio in April. One TQ on a Saturday, and one TQ on a Sunday is 20 TQ's, and her RAE2 title. No more double triples for her. The only thing we're doing for the rest of the year is Master. Go in, read one map, trial once, and done. I literally forgot what that feels like. 12 Master points in one day lets me know that Noelle really, truly, can get points in Master.

Our last points in Master were in 2019, so this felt really special. Every poodle, raise your glasses, a toast to master points. A toast to 4th place in Master. A toast to Noelle. And a toast to Catherine for helping me out of a dark hole. Onward!


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## Skylar

Wow, I’m toasting, champagne glass held high, clinking. 🍸🍸🍾🐩

What a great way to start the new year off


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## lily cd re

Aww thanks, but you couldn't have climbed out of the hole if you weren't willing to work so nicely with Noelle to help get the team back in the groove.


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## 94Magna_Tom

Wow! Double triple! Congratulations! Good girl Noelle 🤩!


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## fjm

Congratulations to all three of you - team work at its very best.


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## Liz

Congratulations to Team Noelle!


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## Johanna

What a happy day for you and Noelle! Congratulations!


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## Sroodle8

I'm fairly new here, so I just started reading about your adventures. What a great trial for Team Noelle!


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## Streetcar

Huge congratulations - lifting a glass in your honor!


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## Click-N-Treat

Rally Master 2.


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## TeamHellhound

Congratulations!


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## Streetcar

They ordered ribbons to match Noel!


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## Skylar

Streetcar said:


> They ordered ribbons to match Noel!


Haha. I was thinking the same thing as well as how amazing Noelle looks wearing her ribbon. Congratulations team Noelle.


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## 94Magna_Tom

Congratulations C&T and Noelle!


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## lily cd re

Congrats and have fun today!


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## Liz

Congratulations!


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## Click-N-Treat

We qualified two more times this weekend. Three entries, 3 Q's, zero championship points. Noelle was happy on arrival at the trial. We got in, settled down. A lady walked in with a young male ridgeback who was under her control at all times. However, he was energetic. And crated next to us. Noelle took one look at him and went under my chair. Well, that was that. She spent the rest of the trial worrying about where that big dog was.

I have a soft sensitive dog. Some of the people at trials yell at their dogs in the ring. Yelling seem to scare Noelle. Angry sounding handlers with distracted, sometimes large dogs, can be intimidating. If there are yellers at a trial, Noelle is going to be worried. Today we showed twice right after a distracted large dog with a yelling male handler. Noelle wasn't a happy camper in the ring.

My plan going forward is this. Treat every Master trial like it's a match. We can do Master indefinitely, and the AKC is not going to run out of RACH titles. If we keep trialing, and keep training, we will eventually bonk into RACH. I have to admit, I really enjoyed just doing Master instead of triple Q's. I'm only doing triples at poodle specialties. The rest of the time, one and done.

Any suggestions on helping Noelle deal with angry yelling handlers in the ring? Especially when angry yeller with a wandering large dog is the team right ahead of us?


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## Sroodle8

I'm not familiar with Rally competitions and how you line up for them. Can you keep Noelle's focus on you as you wait for your turn? For agility, we have a series of little activities when we are waiting--sit, down, bow, shake, other paw, eyes, etc. Nothing important about them other than it gets the dog to focus on me instead of what is happening in the ring or right next to us. 

Congratulations on the Qs!


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## Streetcar

Is it allowed to step outside in fresh air immediately prior to your turn? Of course, I am in no way qualified to advise here, just know how it feels to feel cornered and need some space.


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## Click-N-Treat

Rally runs are too fast to leave the building if you are the next dog. There's just no time. A rally run lasts about two or three minutes. Lately trials have been running tall dog to small dog. Dogs who jump 16" are first, then 12", 8" and 4". Noelle is a 12" jump. I often do leave the building if I know that a specific dog is going to be problematic for Noelle. As long as there are six teams ahead of me, it's no problem. 

Today the man with the doberman was yelling at his dog. His dog was wandering around the ring ignoring him, probably because he was yelling. Which made him yell more. And that team was directly in front of us. Noelle wasn't happy about that. And I do warm ups with focus and fun with Noelle, but if someone is yelling, she's not going to play with me. She's going to worry and lose focus, the same way I would worry and lose focus if someone in the grocery store started yelling.


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## Streetcar

That seems quite logical under the circumstances, though honestly I have to ask about AKC allowing bellowing at one's poor partner. What is up with screaming at one's dog during competition? I've not seen that in conformation; is it a thing in rally?

I'm positive this is not a Noelle thing; it's an AKC problem.


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## Click-N-Treat

When I trial, there are two categories of people who come. 

Category 1: Handlers who spent a ton of time and effort perfecting each behavior. They train in multiple environments. They arrive at the trial calm, confident, and focused. They know their dogs. They've prepared their dogs. They are ring polished and ready. They go in and do very well.

Category 2: Handlers who expect more from their dogs then they are capable of delivering in that environment. Take the leash off and the dog runs off and sniffs the floor. The handler feels a flood of unpleasant emotions—performance anxiety, embarrassment, frustration, disappointment. Maybe if I get louder, Taffy will stop sniffing the ring and pay attention to me. "Taffy, get in. GET IN!" Taffy, being a smart dog, gets farther away from the yelling. Which increases the volume. "TAFFY, GET IN! GET IN!" Taffy, now sensing owner is in some kind of distress, returns. Next sign, dog wanders away. "TAFFY, heel!" Repeat this for 17 rally signs. Score: 72.

And that's the problem. A wandering disconnected dog that is clearly not interested in doing rally, needs to be excused by the judge. Instead, judges want to get hired, keep a reputation for being nice, fair, good courses, etc. If a judge excused all the dogs who needed to be excused, they wouldn't get hired anymore. So Taffy's owner keeps yelling, and keeps being rewarded with qualifying scores. 

I try to be in Category 1. I also know my dog is negatively impacted by teams in Category 2. When I go to trials and everyone is calm, level, and prepared, my dog feeds off that. She can be electrifying in the Rally ring. At the trial in January, when I left the ring someone told me Noelle needs her own theme music because she was dancing in there. Prancing poodle having a focused blast at my side scoring 96 in Master. Same poodle, same building, same ring, in February got an 85. Tail tucked, ears listening to everything, scanning the room for threat. 

Now, I know this about my dog, so I try to be proactive. I expected a meltdown. I got a meltdown. I "rallied" her through the course with as much fun as I could bring. She nailed every single sit and never disconnected on a sit. There were things that went extremely well. Human error turning left instead of right, poorly timed cues, things like that lowered our scores 10 points. And tough, tough courses didn't help.

Double left about turn right turn. Double left about turn left turn. Left about turn. About turn, about U turn. More than half of the Master class did four left about turns instead of three. There was a trap, and we fell headfirst. And most of us caught it halfway through the about turn and let out audible groans. Lose ten points on sign two. Insert much swearing. 95 turned into an 85 instantly. No second chances in Master. I think that's why too many people end up in Category 2 this weekend. The pressure to get RACH points can overwhelm people. At all three trials this weekend, Noelle and I blew our Master points on sign two. Knowing that, I was able to just be happy and play with my dog in the ring. She would have had more fun without all the yelling. But we made it through. On to the next adventure.


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## fjm

I wonder if something like our Bang Bang treats might help a little. Sophy is very like Noelle in some ways - people shouting angrily deeply distresses her. So do bangs and similar loud noises, but a really good treat each and every time has definitely taken the edge off her anxiety. She used to want to head for home at the first distant sound of shooting, now she comes to me for a treat and we continue with the walk. If the sound of angry voices became a reliable predictor of what Noelle loves best - your total attention and sympathy plus food, or Mr Fox, or whatever - it might shift things just enough for her to shake it off just a little more easily. But I am sure you have already thought of that!


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## lily cd re

Streetcar said:


> That seems quite logical under the circumstances, though honestly I have to ask about AKC allowing bellowing at one's poor partner. What is up with screaming at one's dog during competition? I've not seen that in conformation; is it a thing in rally?
> 
> I'm positive this is not a Noelle thing; it's an AKC problem.


Streetcar it would be up to a judge to deal with violations of the AKC code of sportmanship (there is one and it is reproduced in every judging program for everything). The problem is judges need to keep to the schedule in the judging program as best they can and therefore dealing with people who are not respecting the code. I have only seen one judge stop their ring to deal with a person in the crating area who was treating their dog harshly both physically and verbally. She is definitely a law and order type judge and I wasn't surprised given what I had noticed from that person. I can't quite say it is an AKC problem. There aren't AKC reps present at smaller obedience and rally events. There aren't enough people to cover every trial so it falls to judges.

Because there will be some *%%es at trials it is up to exhibitors to train their dogs to be able to withstand the pressures of all kinds of dogs, people and handling. I am sure there were some folks who would have been happy if Javelin had vanished Friday night. He did a couple of really naughty things while in his crate. I worked hard to keep him under control with only limited success. I have some hard training ahead of me to moderate his behavior, but it won't include screaming at him. There was enough of that from a self appointed behavior cop who also was a member of the trial committee. I can't change that person I can only work on my dog and how I handle him.

fjm you have good thoughts there with the idea that the things to do are to make it easier for Noelle to let that energy be reflected off herself. I think I know Click well enough that she will totally get it that making that happen is her responsibility. She is a great trainer, reads her dog well and will figure this out.

Click if you read what I posted in the thread on staring started yesterday by Tom regarding Elroy Googly Eyes😐! How to break the staring habit I think teaching Noelle to focus on you while she is on a mat (towel, whatever) that you have loaded as a safe place you should see some improvement. Javelin's best behavior Friday night was on his mat rather than in his crate.


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle sleeps on her mat at trials.








Getting a dog comfortable enough to sleep is really important. Trials are often long days. She also sleeps in her crate and in the car. She's not on guard throughout a trial. Sorry if I gave that impression.

Some things about trialing are hard to train for, like yelling handlers. The only time we're exposed to that is at trials. Not all trials have loud yelling upset handlers. This last one did. Some will. And that may throw us off our game, until it doesn't. 

The practice from my play therapy class of Look and Dismiss really helped Noelle ignore dogs acting foolishly. The difference between Look and Dismiss and LAT is in LAT, you cue the dog to look at distracting thing and reinforce the return to attention. In Look and Dismiss, you don't cue the dog. You let them disconnect and wait for them to choose reconnection. When they choose to reconnect, you play with the dog in a happy, easy, relaxed way. Gradually the periods of disconnection shrink. Because it's the dog's choice to connect, they change their emotional response to triggers. Soon the dog decides, yes, that is happening over there. But, there's also a fun thing happening here, and fun is good. With no pressure to reconnect, the times between disconnections get shorter. Provided there's enough distance from the trigger, of course, and you're not trigger stacking, etc. My plan, next time I trial, is to do FJM's game of Bang Bang. Yelling people = good things. Since we're only doing Master, we can hang out for a long time and just practice being settled together during the rest of the trial.


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## lily cd re

If you can get that level of relaxation with Noelle sleeping then I think you can extend that also to many situations where she is awake. Use the mat to teach her that you have her back when there are edgy dogs and stressed out people around. As you know the mat is really powerful! I think if you practice using the mat when you are on deck to take your run you can (and will) be able to prevent those jitters that happen just as you need the best focus within your team.


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## Carolinek

Aww, she looks so comfortable on her mat!


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## Click-N-Treat

We're back from quite the adventure. When I was browsing the AKC upcoming rally trial website, I noticed there was a Friday March 11 trial in Wisconsin, and a Saturday/Sunday trial in Illinois on March 12 and 13. And I thought, wow, we could drive to Wisconsin, trial, and that other trial is on our way home. So, I entered both trials. Well, technically that isn't true. I entered five separate trials. Two on Friday in Wisconsin, and two on Saturday in Illinois, and one on Sunday. 

Is it possible to get half of Rally Master 3 in three days?










Why yes, yes it is! Five entries, five qualifying scores. Way to keep it together, Noelle!

Here's what she looked like on the way home. 










And here she is right now asleep with a bone in her mouth.










Rest my rally girl. You did a good job. A Rally Master title requires 10 qualifying scores. We got five Q's this weekend. We already had two scores from another trial. So, this was legs three, four, five, six, and seven toward Rally Master 3. Seven Q's down, three more to go. After a rest. A long rest. We both need it.


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## TeamHellhound

Congratulations! What a busy weekend.


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## Streetcar

My word; that's amazing on both your parts. Good going!


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## lily cd re

Been threre, done that! Meant in the nicest way, not trying to be sarcastic. You both worked very hard this weekend. I love all those greens for the evidence of all you accomplished.


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## fjm

I am nearly as tired as Noelle just thinking about it! Congratulations to both of you.


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## Liz

Wow! Congratulations! It's great to see all of your work paying off. Well done, Noelle.


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## Skylar

Wow - I'm tired just thinking of all the travelling and trialing you and Noelle did to earn those green ribbons. Hip Hip Hip Hooray for Team Noelle. Huge Congratulations.


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## Click-N-Treat

If I ever say I am going to do that again, please load me into the nearest cannon and fire me deep into the center of Lake Michigan! That was a lot. I'm tired. I'm happy. But, I'm tired.


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## Sroodle8

Wow! Those are gorgeous Q ribbons there! I love the exhausted pup photos. Well done.


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## Asta's Mom

Exhausted with so many ribbons - rest up team Noelle - you guys are amazing!


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## 94Magna_Tom

Congratulations! Time to rest😁!


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## Click-N-Treat

My three private lessons had to cancel today. So, I fell asleep at 10:30 and woke up at 4:00 in the afternoon. Right now I feel rested. Thank goodness. I burned the candle at both ends, drilled a hole in center and lit that wick, too. I definitely pushed us hard. We didn't get any points this weekend because one member of our team gets left and right spins mixed up. I will put rally signs out on the floor at work and practice them without my dog. I need to practice the turns and spins back to back so I see them and cue correctly.

I also have a plan for working on focus and attention in distracting places. We have a dog friendly shopping mall in my town. Drive there with Noelle's dinner in my pouch. Choose a location and stand absolutely still. Wait for Noelle to offer attention, click and praise like crazy and give one taste of dinner. Return to standing still and waiting. Repeat stationary attention exercises until she no longer looks away. Then add heeling short distances. Then add rally practice. I want her to understand that what is happening in the environment doesn't concern her. And I want paying attention to become her job, not mine.

It's different from LAT. In the Look at That game we cue our dogs to look at a distracting thing and click as they look away. In this game, I will click the second she offers attention and jackpot with praise and some food. This is Suzanne Clothier's auto check-in. http://www.mwbcr.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Auto-Check-In.pdf

Eventually, I will leave my treat pouch on a table and work with no rewards on me. Then return to the table and reinforce. Twice a week she's going to eat dinner at the mall. I am hoping this practice helps her work on tuning in to me at trials. Stationary practice before moving. Short distances before long sequences. Food close at hand before on a table. Work our way up in stages and at her pace.


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## Click-N-Treat

Well, we played the look at me game at the mall and Noelle did surprisingly well. I wasn't expecting her to ignore a cooing couple, but she acted like they weren't there. Maybe she was in service dog mode. Either way, it was a good practice for her and we will continue it. 

A few weeks ago, I qualified five times in one weekend. There was a secret reason behind doing such a crazy thing. There is a small poodle specialty the first weekend in April. Two rally trials with only poodles invited. Wouldn't it be something to get Rally Master 3 at a poodle specialty? What about RAE2? I did some calculations and figured out how many Q's we would need to set up a RM3 run for that weekend. We'd need two Q's in February, five in early March would be seven. We needed two more Q's. If we could just go to one more trial before the specialty and Q twice. I looked at the AKC website, selected a trial in Indiana and decided to go. One trial in the morning, one trial in the afternoon.

14 dogs were entered in Master. My goal, zero handler errors, and qualify twice at both trials. Noelle had other ideas.









She decided to get a 93, five more points toward our championship, and third place! Fourteen dogs and 3rd place? That's my girl! Noelle had a ball at the second trial of the day. Some of her favorite signs were in there. I spun her the right direction. I spun myself the right direction. Noelle qualified for Rally Nationals next year at the Master level with her third score above 93. 

Next Saturday, fingers crossed, RM3. Next Sunday, fingers crossed RAE2. Can we do it? I don't know, but we're on the right road headed in the right direction. Onward!


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## Liz

Kismet! Congratulations, Click!


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## 94Magna_Tom

Congratulations! Have a good time next weekend!


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## Click-N-Treat

Rally Master 3 and Triple Q#19. We're taking a trialing break and working on focus and attention. Then we'll get TQ #20 and our RAE2 title. Onward!


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## Streetcar

And you did it at the Poodle specialty 😍🤩🐩💗!!!

Huge congratulations to you both! Doesn't Noelle look so very distinguished and proud. And rightfully so.


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## 94Magna_Tom

Wooo Hooo! Almost time!


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## TeamHellhound

Awesome!


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## Click-N-Treat

Noelle definitely needs a trial break. We've shown 16 times this year all ready. Trialing that much exposed some gaps in our training, which is a really good thing. I trial to see where my training is working, but more importantly to see where it is not working. Trials are a diagnostic tool.

These last few trials were my chance to see if our rally mechanics have improved, and they have. Back up three steps was hard for Noelle because my body signals were throwing her off. I fixed how I moved and Noelle fixed how she moved. Back up three steps is now straight and very nice. What's not so nice is Noelle's flickering focus. Now that signs are solid we need to build resistance to distractions and increase focus and attention in the ring. So, we're taking several months to re-tool. There is a trial in August at a place near me where Noelle likes going. They have judges I really enjoy showing to as well. We'll get RAE2 at that trial and hopefully be in a better place when we start heading toward RM4.

We have 30 flat green ribbons from Rally Master level. We went from RM2 to RM3 in 49 days. We've qualified for the 2023 Rally National Championship at the Master level. It's been a wild ride and it's only early April. Time to get off the trial circuit before we short circuit as a team. Re-tool. Rebuild. Come up screaming! Onward!


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## Skylar

Huge congratulations Team Click/Noelle. What I love best is you are looking at the big picture…. and making decisions that make you a more solid teams.


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## Kukla the Tpoo

Congratulations! That's such a sweet photo of Noelle with her ribbons.


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## Click-N-Treat

My big goal this summer is getting treats and toys off of my body without losing Noelle's enthusiasm. And I want leaving the treats behind to be a signal for Noelle to pay extra close attention. I started with a ball and a treat bag on a chair in the ring. These were in a box to make them obviously off limits. I waited patiently for Noelle to turn away and give me eye contact. I clicked a flicker of eye contact and made a huge celebration for her win.

Next criteria to win, make eye contact and take one step away from the chair.
Next criteria to win, make eye contact, leave the chair, get into heel position.
Next criteria to win, make eye contact, leave the chair, get into heel position and stare at me for two seconds.
Next criteria to win, make eye contact, leave the chair, get into heel position, stare at me for five seconds.

We built up from here. The interesting thing for me as a dog trainer wasn't that we built up, but how we did it. I raised criteria just like video game designers do. Video game designers want to create the perfect balance of challenge vs frustration. If the game gets too hard too fast, players give up and stop playing. If the difficulty level raises too slowly, players get bored, give up and stop playing. Frustrated or bored players won't buy the sequel. So, how do game designers keep players hooked? And how can I use that in my dog training?

Level 1 challenge. Player is armed with a stick. Monster attacks. Player defeats monster and wins a pod lid as a shield.
Level 2 challenge. Slightly harder monster attacks. Player needs to use pot lid for defense. Player wins a sword.
Level 3 challenge. Both types of monsters attack. Sword makes level 1 monster easy. Pot lid still successful. Player wins a shield.
Level 4 challenge. Good thing player has a real sword and shield now. Level 4 monster is tough! Video gamers call that a boss battle. Success! Player wins a better sword and better shield.

What happens now? Does the game designer throw in an even harder challenge? No. Level 2 monsters come back and the well armed player has an easy win. Why? Because the game designers know that the balance between success/boredom/frustration is critical. As dog trainers, that balance between success/boredom/frustration is the same. 

The temptation when teaching a dog a new skill is raising criteria too fast. Keep making it harder and the dog will be frustrated. Keep the challenge level too low and the dog will get bored. So, in training Noelle to delay treats, I made use of video gamer knowledge. Rule 1: not every challenge is a boss battle. Rule 2: boss battles are followed up by easy wins. Levels 1, 2, 3, 4 are followed by Levels 2, 3, 4, 5. Follow that up with Levels 3, 4, 5, 6. When the difficulty goes up to the highest ever, lower the next challenge way down to release tension. This tension/release cycle makes video games addictive. It also keeps dogs motivated to try harder. 

Last week I put the chair outside of the ring for the first time. Noelle quickly understood she needed to leave the chair and come with me into the ring. Enter ring, sit, leave, go get treats. Next time, enter ring, sit, leash off, leash on, leave and get treats. Sometimes we do some heel work. Sometimes we do rally moves. Sometimes we just enter, exit and grab a ball. I planned ahead what I was going to do to challenge her and relieve tension. My ultimate goal is to teach Noelle that if my treat bag and her toys are on the chair, focus is expected. Are we there yet? Nope, but we're leveling up together.

Desensitizing Noelle to distractions is another thing I am working on as well. Adding more weird things to the ring, like a singing dancing Snoopy toy, has helped with focus. Another thing is I am doing is deliberately training a keep going signal. The word YES means you are getting a treat now. YES bridges the time it takes to get a treat from my pouch to her mouth. In dog training geek language, food is a primary reinforcer. YES is a secondary reinforcer. What I need is a tertiary reinforcer. A bridge between what we are doing now and YES in the future. That's what a keep going signal is for--a bridge between what we are doing right now and YES. The word GOOD is my keep going signal. 

It's made our communication better in the ring because I can say "GOOD" as a promise. Noelle is learning that GOOD leads to YES and YES leads to a treat. And even though the treats are outside of the ring, that doesn't mean she's not getting one. There's trust involved in that. We still have a long way to go, but we're making progress.

I got her Rally Master 3 certificate in the mail this week. Made me smile. Good girl, Noelle. Onward!


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## lily cd re

I always have treats in an open container on a grooming table or a desk just outside the ring. They know it is there, but not to help themselves. Premack looms large. Do this with me and then we will go get cookies. And I use the same verbals. Yes means cookie now that was awesome. Good means we like what is happening but let's keep going. And don't forget oops or uh-oh to give the dog the information that a mistake happened and we will have to repeat what we just did the right way, and sorry no cookie for that.


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## Click-N-Treat

I use uh-oh. It’s all about information. Yes: treats or toys for you. Good: that’s correct keep it up. Uh-oh: not what I wanted. There are trainers who don’t use keep going signals or any kind of no reward marker. They just withhold a treat. To me, this leaves a dog wondering why they didn’t win. Uh-oh can clearly mark the second the dog messed up. Or, in training geek, mark the second the dog’s behavior failed to meet criteria.

Again, it’s giving the dog information. In the middle of a behavior chain if Noelle messes something up how do I let her know? Stand Leave Down Call Front Finish Sit. One sign, long behavior chain. If there’s a creep forward on the down, uh-oh lets me mark the creeping. No win for you. Otherwise I am also correcting the stand stay.

Practice the uh-oh twice out of sequence. Retry. Stand leave down Good! Front finish sit YES!


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## lily cd re

There are four quadrants for good reasons. It doesn't mean you need each of them equally, but it just isn't a good way to teach to not tell a pup, horse, or person (or any other animal) when they have not done the behavior correctly. I hve used the three word marker system as you describe it Click for many years. All the best trainers I know use the same system.


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## Click-N-Treat

Yes, there are 4 quadrants. And no, I don't use them equally. However, I had a student with a young poodle at my CGC class. During sit for petting, he nipped my hands. I asked the owners what was up with the nipping. They told me he bites them nonstop at home. I told them to take the nipping dog to the bathroom and close the door. Count to five, and bring him back. Another nip? Another free trip to the bathroom. After his fourth trip to the bathroom, he stopped nipping me. 

Was that aversive? Yes. But, nipping is a self-reinforcing behavior. The dog likes doing it and will keep doing it unless someone gives him a consequence that he doesn't like. The owners were shocked they could do that. They thought they had to be all positive all the time. No, you have to be all consequence all the time.

As dog trainers we are masters of consequence. The more clear the consequence, the faster the behavior changes. The consequence for nipping was isolation. The consequence for keeping his mouth closed was getting attention and petting. He chose to keep his mouth closed. 

Consequences are fair, clear, and impactful. Sometimes withholding a treat is enough to change behavior. Sometimes, you need to add something unpleasant to reduce behavior. That's why I'm a LIMA trainer. Least Intrusive Minimally Aversive does not mean never aversive. The art of dog training is knowing which quadrant to use and when to use it.


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## Click-N-Treat

Long time no update. Noelle and I have been working hard on focus and attention. Part of Noelle's mental picture of doing rally involved Mr. Fox, tennis balls, and treats. If I had them available, she was in the game. If I did not have them available, we weren't doing rally. That mental picture was difficult to fix. Because I got Noelle specifically to train as a diabetes alert dog and had no idea rally existed until she was three, we had some things to unlearn.

Service dog work requires a completely different kind of attention to handler than sports. Mostly, I need Noelle's nose to pay attention when we're out and about. Of course, she has lovely in public manners, but continuous 100% eye contact at all times is not necessary. She simply needs to ignore trillions of other smells and be on the look out for low blood glucose scent on my breath. How she does this remains awe inspiring. 

What it didn't set us up for was sports. How do I get the treats out of the rally picture so Noelle focuses on me? More importantly, how do I make the absence of a treat a cue to pay extra close attention? Answer: in very, very, tiny stages. Place treats and toys in a box with a tight fitting lid. Place box on my chair. Leave the chair, stand still, wait. Say absolutely nothing. Let Noelle figure out that she has the key to the box: eye contact.

Glance, open box, get a toy and throw it. Longer glance, open box, get a toy, throw it. Glance, move a toenail in my direction. A step. Two steps. Move to front and stare. Move to heel and stare. Move to heel and stare and take one step in heel. Centimeters at a time, heavily rewarding every movement in the right direction, we crawled forward. Sometimes I made it harder, sometimes easier. Consequence for ditching me was I got a tab leash from my pocket, put it on her collar and gently took her back to start. No win for you. Failure resulted in me making it extremely easy to win next time, followed by the exact thing she goofed up. 

I got rid of the box and just put her toys and treats in the center of my chair. I wanted that to be Noelle's cue to leave the chair and focus deeply on me. For what felt like 20 years, Noelle did not seem to understand what I wanted. Actually, it was about of month of Sundays. Then, one training day, I put the toys down on the chair and she flung herself into heel position. I think I saw the lightbulb come on over her head. I asked for heeling, I got peppy focused heeling. I asked for sits and downs and I got them fast. I asked for more and more and she never wavered. Then I got the ball and flung it and we played ball. 

That's when I moved the chair out of the ring. Toys and treats are out here. Enter the ring, leash off, leash on, win the ball. We moved a lot faster because she still understood the game was the same. Do stuff with mom in the ring, and then we get the ball. Same concept as eat your peas and then you can have ice cream.

But, something happened during that training process. Noelle's attention seemed to get even deeper. It wasn't just, if I do these things, I can have my ball. It became, I want to do these things because spending time with Mom is good. Last Sunday we ran through all of Open obedience. I hadn't done an Open run-through in at least 8 months. She drilled every exercise. I threw the dumbbell over the jump and it went way left. No where near where I wanted it to go. Noelle saw where the dumbbell landed. I said, "Noelle, over." She took the jump, got the dumbbell, took the jump back, sat squarely in front and held the dumbbell. I took it. Paused. Finish cue, she finished and sat. Best retrieve of her life. We ran and got the ball and played and played and played.

Then I put the ball away and turned on some music. We did rally moves to music for six minutes without stopping. I had 100% focus, energy, fun, and a prancing joyful poodle at my side. It was glorious! Noelle was having a blast. No treats. No toys. Just the two of us dancing around the ring because we could. That's how you do it, Noelle. Onward!


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## 94Magna_Tom

Congratulations. Fantastic job!


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## lily cd re

Sometimes a break and a new perspective does wonders for a routine. Your adaptability is serving team Noelle very well.


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## Skylar

Inspiring


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## Click-N-Treat

We're back from our first trials since April. That long break to re-tool and re-train paid off. We finished RAE2 with perfect scores in Excellent and Advanced. First perfect scores we ever got. Only team in the trial to have a perfect 200 score for High Combined. That was our final triple qualifying run, #20, for our RACH title. We have all the points we need from RAE level. Now.. we just need Master points. Onward!


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## fjm

Huge congratulations! We always knew Noelle was Practically Perfect - now she has shown that she can also be Absolutely Perfect!


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## mvhplank

Most wonderful!


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## Asta's Mom

Oh looky looks at those lovely ribbons. Way to go team Noelle.


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## 94Magna_Tom

Congratulations to you and Noelle!


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## EVpoodle

Congratulations!


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## PowersPup

Congratulations!


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## Streetcar

Congratulations from out here! So excited for you both 💓!!


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## TeamHellhound

Congratulations!


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## Skylar

That’s amazing, I’m so happy for you and Noelle with all your hard work. Huge congratulations.


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## Carolinek

Very nice, she looks right proud!


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## Click-N-Treat

I learned a lot at these last trials. On Saturday, my 98 and 8 points turned into an 88 and no points when I forgot to tell Noelle to Sit Stand *SIT*. Arrrguh! Two Master legs toward RM4, though. 4th place the first time, 3rd place the second time.

Sunday, I arrived at the trial and got three maps for our final TQ. Off-set figure 8 was in all three. Groan! The Gauntlet of Leave-It. Three times? Oh man! During Master walkthrough there was food in the silver bowls. The next sign was back up three steps, pivot left, back up one or two steps. That sign is hard any time I see it. Having it follow the Gauntlet of Leave-it made it even harder. Noelle got through the Gauntlet of Leave-It, but getting away from the food bowl left her slightly crooked before we started backing up. We screwed that sign up like I thought we would. The rest was fine. 4th place.

Excellent. Squeaky toys in the silver bowls. But, the back up sign was replaced with a simple right turn. Noelle and I were in the zone and having a wonderful time together. I cued her around the cones and she ignored the fat squeaky hedgehog. Got through that, got to the right turn, turned right. Ring gate had sit, pivot right, sit. She did that well. Next sign, back up three steps. Ok, just like we practiced. Slow and steady. Heel back, heel back, heel back. More signs, finish, sit stay. Noelle sat, she stayed, I got her leash and 100 points. 10 championship points. We needed 8 more RAE points and we had them. Yahoo. All we had to do was qualify in Advanced and we'd have our 20th TQ.

Advanced: Tennis balls in the silver bowls. I could tell she was getting tired, so I slowed down a little more and kept our pace nice and steady. She followed every cue, trotted through all the signs. When she saw the tennis ball in the silver bowl a poodle gleam came in her eye. She looked at me, "Is that my ball?"
"Leave it." 
"Oh. Not my ball. OK. Wanna figure 8 with me?" 
We got through the figure 8 and she ignored the tennis balls. Right turn. Sit, turn right one step, sit. And then there was a very long heeling pattern to the finish from one corner of the ring to the end. I looked at Noelle and asked, "Would you like to get your ball?"
"I would very much like to get my ball."
Noelle poodle pranced in heel position all the way to the finish. 100 points. 

And yes, she got her ball. 

We won High Combined, which we'd never done outside of a poodle specialty. I'd never gotten a perfect score before, either. We got two in one day. So, that was exciting. All that hard work we did getting focus and attention straightened out made a difference. Now all we need to collect are Master points. We trial again on Saturday in Master. Onward!


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## Asta's Mom

Big congrats team Noelle!


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## Click-N-Treat

Back from yesterday's trial. We got a 95 in Master in trial 1 and a 91 in Master in trial 2. So, that's 11 points toward our championship. Sill have a lot more to go, but we're on our way. Joy!


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## 94Magna_Tom

Nice work!


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## Click-N-Treat

I made a promise to Noelle that I will make no handler errors at our trials. There's no excuse for losing 10 points because I forgot to cue a sit. Our last trial we got an 85 and a 76. And guess what, I didn't make those errors. Noelle did! In our first trial, she was too distracted to sit at the ring gate. At our second trial, Noelle didn't back up, pivot and back up. 10 points off. Then, I told Noelle to sit/stay before the jump. She got excited and took the jump early. Lost an additional 10 points. I was still really happy because I didn't make handler errors for a change. The dog is allowed to make mistakes. We got QQ #6 and #7 toward RM4. We trial again on the 18th.

My goal is to get RM10. I figure we'll bonk into RACH somewhere in the next 63 trials. 100 successful Master runs is quite a goal and I know we will get there. We only need scores over 91 20 times. With 63 trials to go, I know we'll make it. I'm off to train Noelle to walk backwards, pivot, and back up again. Wish me luck. Those signs suck.


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## Click-N-Treat

Rally trial today. We went somewhere new. Crating was far away from the ring area, a good set up for my easily distracted dog. We scored 92. Five more points toward our RACH. Onward!


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## 94Magna_Tom

Congratulations to you both! Great job!


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## Sroodle8

Nice! Did you keep your promise to Noelle regarding handler errors? How many trials do you do a year?


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## Looniesense

Congratulations.


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## Click-N-Treat

Sroodle8 said:


> Nice! Did you keep your promise to Noelle regarding handler errors? How many trials do you do a year?


Yes, I kept my promise. If I didn't we would have lost 10 points and scored an 82 instead of a 92. I trial a lot every year. We started '22 with RM and RAE titles. We got RAE2 in August, and we are on our way to RM4 on December 30th, unless something goes really, really wrong. So, that's--gosh--30 trials this year? Yeah, we did 10 triple Q's, and 20 Master level only trials. 

Next year my goal is to get RM5 in St. Louis at the Poodle National Specialty in April, just because that would be fun to do at a specialty. So, I need 9 trials between January and April, a very doable thing. There are several really nice trials in my area with judges I like. We don't need to get RACH points at each trial, just need to qualify. A qualifying score is 70. 

Ah, but those points are nice. One trial at a time, we'll get where we need to go. 92! Nicely done, Miss Noelle.


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## Asta's Mom

Good job team Noelle!


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## Skylar

Huge congratulations - looks like you and Noelle got your mojo back.


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## Click-N-Treat

We do have our mojo back from when we had that setback after the dog fight. We've trialed in the same location several times since then. It's actually a tough building for my distractible dog because the crates are right along the ring gate. Also the warm up ring was right next to where we were working. Noelle's attention was split between the environment and what we were doing. 

This past weekend, the ring gate was many feet away from crating. Doors were no where near the ring. Warm up area was in a different part of the room and invisible from the ring gate. We probably would have scored higher if there hadn't been a flickering fluorescent light above the jump. That was... interesting. But, the signs were good ones for us. The only really hard one was call front two side steps left. We've been practicing that...

Singing the pre-cue: Let's show the world we can dance. (get ready to side step)
Singing the cue: Shake it shake it (come front/sit)
Singing the cue: Shake your groove thing shake your groove thing (side step left, side step left) 
Singing the cue: Yeah Yeah (sit)
Singing the cue: Show 'em how we do it now (finish left)

Yup, we do a little disco dance. Noelle enjoys it and focuses well. I think it's clearly because I'm being silly, and Noelle knows I'm being silly. If I'm silly, I'm happy. If I'm happy, we're having fun. If we're having fun, Noelle is in the game. Some dogs work because it's their job. I had a Belgian Tervuren in my rally class. He got in the ring, saluted, and went to work with military precision because it was his job. He was fantastic to watch. Nothing like Noelle. Noelle is 100% poodle all the time. 

We've made a ton of progress in paying attention, but I still need to work on it. Our greatest weakness in the ring is attention. I found an attention class to go to on Tuesdays. I'm going to check it out and see if it's a good fit for us.


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## fjm

I love the silly game. Noelle has her job - keeping you alive - and does it extremely well; everything else is the fun icing on the cake!


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## Johanna

Your silly game is a great idea. That may prevent Noelle's making up her own silly game!


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## Click-N-Treat

Actually, the reason I started singing the cues was Noelle got confused with Call Front Finish Left/Right and Call Front Take Two Side Steps. She would try to finish while I was trying to side step. Clarity helps and nothing is more clear than singing a cue and only one cue. 

We trialed on Friday. As I approached the ring gate, I had to walk right past three of Noelle's former trainers. These are people she hasn't seen since 2020. She was so happy to see them. And then I wanted to do rally. And Noelle was really super duper confused when we walked past them. I took off her leash. Judge asked, "Are you ready?"
I said, "No."
I got Noelle's attention and she looked at me and was like, "Oh, it's time to do rally, OK."
"Ready!" 
Was she paying 100% attention to me? Not until we got to sign 5 on the other side of the ring. Back up three steps. She backed up in heel and then sat attentively at the jump. Whee! Front, finish. Happy poodle doing happy rally got a 94. Good on ya, Noelle.

No time to rest. It was a concurrent trial. Trial 1 started at 8. Trial 2 stared at 8:30. 124 dogs were entered in Rally. Both judges had rocket fast courses laid out. Nice flow, fast moving, get the dogs in the ring and out. In trial 1, the ring next to us was empty. In trial 2, we started along the ring gate. Another dog was working in the ring next to us. Noelle ignored that dog. We flowed through trial 2. Noelle was out of position on a sit side step sit and lost some points. But, she showed well. 91. 10 more master points.

And Rally Master 4!

Onward!


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## 94Magna_Tom

Congratulations! You're getting there!


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## Sroodle8

I love these descriptions: "sat attentively" "Happy poodle" "we flowed through trial 2."

Beautiful.


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## Click-N-Treat

Those were the fastest trials I have ever been to. Walkthrough was a 7:50 in ring 1. First dog, a Pomeranian, was in the ring working at 8:00 on the dot. We were team 4. We were in the ring at 8:12 and out of the ring by 8:15. Second trial walkthrough was at 8:30. Same Pomeranian was in ring 1 working at 8:40. Trial 1 was still going on. We were in the ring at 8:52 and out of the ring at 8:55. I was done with two trials before 9:00 in the morning. I picked up my ribbons when trial 1 ended, snagged a new title ribbon, and left at 9:30. 

On the way home, I was like, what just happened? I'm used to trial 1 is at 8:00 in the morning. Trial 2 starts at 1:30 in the afternoon. Show in Master, wait many hours, show in Master, leave. Concurrent trials are weird. The big risk is doing rally in ring 1 while 22 people are doing walkthrough in ring 2. Ring 1 and 2 shared a ring gate. I don't think Noelle could handle that much distraction. I was very pleased we were done with ring 1 before walkthrough in ring 2. I felt really sorry for the teams that had to show during walkthrough. I did that once which is why I avoid concurrent trials. I try to set my dog up for success.


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## Asta's Mom

WooHoo Click and Noelle!


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## Skylar

Click-N-Treat said:


> Those were the fastest trials I have ever been to. Walkthrough was a 7:50 in ring 1. First dog, a Pomeranian, was in the ring working at 8:00 on the dot. We were team 4. We were in the ring at 8:12 and out of the ring by 8:15. Second trial walkthrough was at 8:30. Same Pomeranian was in ring 1 working at 8:40. Trial 1 was still going on. We were in the ring at 8:52 and out of the ring at 8:55. I was done with two trials before 9:00 in the morning. I picked up my ribbons when trial 1 ended, snagged a new title ribbon, and left at 9:30.


Wow, I’ve never heard of a trial like this over so quickly. I’m used to the early morning until end of the day trials for rally. A friend once joked that the trial is over when we run out of conversation since they run so long. While I love that you got through both courses and went home so quickly, I could see where this may be more stressful for some people. 

Kudos on a job well done Team Noelle.


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