# New documentary on pet food industry



## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

Yup. I check the history of recalls on pet foods before purchasing. I feed champion dog food only i.e. Acana or orijen. I fed Lucky Fromm for a little while and didn't think it was better than acana 


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I am figuring I will be very happy to have recently decided to start cooking food for my crew!


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## RD. (Jul 19, 2016)

Kevin, seeing as you have watched the entire video, is there anything new to report? I mean from the trailer discussing foods high in grain content (or any carb for that matter), and melamine, is rather old news. Or is this more of an expose on some of the manufacturers who sell junk science along with their carb filled products?


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## kchen95 (Jan 6, 2016)

RD. said:


> Kevin, seeing as you have watched the entire video, is there anything new to report? I mean from the trailer discussing foods high in grain content (or any carb for that matter), and melamine, is rather old news. Or is this more of an expose on some of the manufacturers who sell junk science along with their carb filled products?


It's more the latter - expose of how the major pet food manufacturers have convinced pet owners that feeding carb-filled dry kibbles is the best thing to do for your pets. I don't think the documentary contains any overarching insights that I did not know before, but it gives interesting details on some of the industry developments - e.g. the legal battle between Purina and Blue Buffalo. The film also claims that it repeatedly reached out to the major pet food companies to get their side of the story - e.g. explain why their carb-filled dry kibbles are good for pets - but all these major companies refused to talk. In contrast, the film claims, small premium companies were much more eager to discuss their products. However, the film then proceeds to NOT include any commentaries from these companies - such that essentially, major companies that supposedly refused to talk did not comment in the firm, but neither did the small premium brands that supposedly were eager to talk.

Hope this helps!

Kevin


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## RD. (Jul 19, 2016)

Thanks Kevin, greatly appreciated. It certainly comes as no great surprise that none of these companies would want to go on record involving a subject that places them in a bad light from the get go.

It also leaves me wondering if the comments from some of the manufacturers of more premium formulas, were not included in this film as they wouldn't have carried the same shock value that the producers were going for with the expose regarding some of the BIG companies? Hmmmm. There are lots of high quality low carb meat based kibble currently on the market - where's the documentaries on that? 

In a previous discussion I posted the following, you might be interested in this topic if you haven't already seen it?

http://www.poodleforum.com/32-poodle-food/209889-have-grains-got-bad-rap.html

The better companies out there spend a TON of money on research, and are constantly looking to improve their foods in what globally has become a multi billion dollar industry. Consumers no longer live in the dark, forums such as this make people look twice at everything. Unfortunately the closer scrutiny can turn some into fanatics, usually these types have never stepped foot in a manufacturing facility to see that the good ones are uber clean, almost a clinical setting, and every last ingredient and every last test along the way is checked several times over, before and after the process. They honestly really care, and while making $$$, are attempting to provide a superior product. 

This is all a step in the right direction!


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## kchen95 (Jan 6, 2016)

Hi RD, thanks for the link - very interesting and informative! 

The Pet Fooled documentary doesn't make any definitive claims on which brands or which kinds of food are best/better, but it strongly leans towards the following:

Raw/fresh foods are best.
If you won't feed fresh foods and must feed kibbles, there are better kibbles vs. worse kibbles. The worse kibbles are manufactured by the three biggest companies that currently dominate the pet food market; the better ones are made by the smaller premium brands.

RD, you sound like an extremely experienced, informed person so I would love your opinion on this. You mentioned in your post that you have "no problems" with people feeding raw. How about the other side - have you seen anecdotal evidence that a well-balanced raw food diet is "better" than a well-balanced kibble diet or canned diet? I stress "anecdotal" because I don't think any conclusive scientific evidence exists either way to demonstrate whether raw food is better or worse. 

From my own experience, my mini-poo Vontae was fed a premium kibble diet for the first two years of his life at his breeder's place (Taste of the Wild), and in the past year since I got him, I gradually switched him out of kibbles (ToW and Orijen) into raw (Big Dog, Dr.B and K9 Natural) with a bit of canned (Ziwipeak). I haven't seen the extreme differences that some have noted; rather, the differences are more subtle. The differences that are indisputable (only in the case of Vontae; I'm not trying to generalize these findings to other dogs) are:

1). He definitely likes raw food better than kibbles and canned (he likes canned better than kibbles).
2). His poop is the most solid and least smelly when fed raw (all three raw brands produce this result), with little or no "remnant" when I wipe his butt. His poop with ToW and Orijen weren't bad at all; they were just slightly less solid, definitely more smelly, and leave a bit more remnant.

As for the less conclusive "eyeball test", I feel Vontae is even energetic and active than he was when he was fed kibbles - as you can see from the video below, he swims and catches frisbee like he's a Border Collie. But, I say this is less conclusive because part or all of what makes him more active now could be the lifestyle he's leading with me - we hike/swim/play frisbee for almost two hours daily, in addition to shorter bathroom break walks. Not that he wasn't an active and healthy dog before; if he weren't, I wouldn't have gotten him in the first place - but now, he is even more active.

Given all this, I would love to hear what your opinion is and what you've observed through your years of experience. Thanks!

Kevin


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## RD. (Jul 19, 2016)

Hey Kevin, what a beautiful family, and dog you have! Thanks for sharing.

Really tough question to answer, because as we all know all dogs are individuals, and what may work wonders for one dog, could prove a disaster for others. As you said the only evidence that we currently have is mostly anecdotal because the current scientific evidence is not conclusive. This article by Jean Dodds might interest you, particularly the Raw Food Diet Study.
https://my.imatrixbase.com/clients/...cumentation/Novel_Approaches_in_Nutrition.pdf

I think what we really need is to follow these dogs (and more) across their lifespan. Then one would be able to get some really meaningful data. It sounds to me like Pet Fooled is a bit of a farce, if there only purpose is to promote feeding raw/fresh, to all dogs. If only life was so simple. Not all dogs can manage all ingredients, or even forms of various ingredients, in the same manner. It is for this reason that I have always promoted that if something is working well, to stick with it. Through the use of systems such as Nutriscan one can fine tune what will, or will not cause issues with some dogs. Not a perfect solution for all sensitivity issues, but certainly a fantastic option. 

I think that many people look to blame diet with every health issue on the planet, when the reality is many of these issues are genetic. Our dogs aren't wolves, far from it, and over hundreds of years of selective breeding domestic dogs health issues have followed. As stated previously all dogs are individuals and today I was thinking about how diet can play such a different role among different individuals.

Using myself as an example, many "healthy" foods, such as spinach, swiss chard, beet greens, rhubarb, almonds, cashews, etc, cause my body to form kidney stones due to the high level of oxalic acid found in these foods. With the flu season upon us, and myself working in a health facility where germs abound, my wife gave me some grape seed extract to take along with my daily vitamin c supplement. Safe enough, a little extra antioxidants never hut anyone, right? Wrong! The 100 mg capsule contained 15 mg of Japanese Knotweed extract, which I later discovered to be high in oxalic acid. Within approx. 10 days of starting this supplement I was passing blood in my urine, and lots of it. Having gone through kidney stone issues a number of times over the years I knew straight away that it was caused from a change in my diet - and it all led back to this little capsule of grape extract. Within 48 hrs of stopping this supplement things began to clear up, and a few days later everything went back to normal. 

I'm guessing most members of this forum wouldn't have such a negative reaction to simply eating some almonds, or a bowl of spinach. Many here have probably never even contemplated oxalic acid levels in food, some most likely have never even heard of it. When I was a young man this was not an issue, but with age, things can change. And dogs appear to be very similar in that regard.

Each of us can only go by what we personally see in our pets. I personally find it offensive when someone attempts to tell me what is best for my dog, a dog that they have never even seen, let alone met. So my suggestion to you Kevin is the same as to everyone else, go with your gut, you know your dog/s better than anyone!


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## kchen95 (Jan 6, 2016)

Hi RD, thanks very much for your very informative response! For the Jean Dodds study on raw diet, would it be possible to ask you to explain what those numbers (e.g. higher red blood cell and blood urea nitrogen counts) mean? What do those different numbers indicate about feeding a raw diet? Or is the study simply stating these findings, without concluding why/how/if these findings are significant?

Thanks again!

Kevin


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## RD. (Jul 19, 2016)

I was hoping that someone more knowledgeable than myself regarding that science could offer some insight. Thus far, their findings seem inconclusive as to the long (or even short) term health issues that could potentially arise from feeding various raw diets. At one point Dodds states; 

_"The intake of proportionately large amounts of raw meat protein and the significantly higher BUN and other concentrations found here raise the possibility of spillover into the urine of measurable amounts of urea nitrogen and/or albumin. If so, are there potential short and long term clinical consequences ?"_


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