# Pressure to rehome...



## micah_mae_ (Feb 21, 2011)

Everyone is telling me that we should rehome our brand new puppy. We have only had him for 11 days. We really do love him but we are having a few problems..
1) He keeps having accidents inside despite me taking him out every 1-2 hours and staying out for long periods.
2) He has separation anxiety, can't even walk upstairs without him yelping and barking. He whines a lot.
3) My autistic 2 year old think hitting him is a great game.

The house training and the whining are the main things. My family keeps telling me that a puppy is too much and honestly they are probably right but I don't want to give up so easy.



Also, we had a consult with a "Bark Buster's" dog trainer who was very helpful..but she talked me into a "life long plan" after I told her we were moving to ft hood soon and she says "oh I'm sure there's trainers there, we're everywhere" and went on to quote where they are all located. So I paid for it and come to find out there isn't a trainer there. Does anyone have any experience with them? Can I get part of my $$ back?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

You simply need to change what *you* are doing. It is obvious that what you are doing isn't working for your puppy, which really isn't his fault.

The first two problems are easily fixed with extra patience on your part. You have to set your puppy up to win, not to fail. Leaving your puppy outside for a long period of time and bringing him in expecting him not to potty in the house is not going to work.

1) Take him outside on a leash. Walk him around until he potties. When he potties, praise PRAISE praise PARTY praise and say "good potty!" and give a treat right at that moment. Letting him outside for long periods of time means nothing. You have to be there with him, making sure he potties. Bring him in, play a little and then put him in his crate for 2 hours. 

After 2 hours, take him directly outside to potty. Walk him until he potties. Repeat above steps. After a few days or so of success, you want to gradually increase the amount of time he is in his crate you are training his bladder. Leave him in his crate for 3 hours, then take him out to potty. Then 4 hours, etc. Anytime you are not playing with him, he should be in his crate. Anytime he comes out of his crate, he goes directly outside until YOU witness him pottying and praise him.

2) He doesn't have separation anxiety from what you described. He is just scared. You are his new mommy and you are leaving him in his scary, scary crate. What I did in this situation (Millie was a screamer!! :scared is I covered her crate with a sheet. I also closed my bedroom door (where here crate was). This helped her feel secure in her "den". I would leave her in there for increasing amounts of time. (This goes hand in hand with training the bladder.) Also, I only came back when she *wasn't* yelping. At first, this meant I would have to wait for a pause in between fits. I would walk in when it was quiet, open up the crate, praise her, etc. Repeat.

It is very important that you nip this behavior in the bud as it can progress to separation anxiety if he doesn't learn that it is OK to be alone.

The last issue is more than I can give advice for. I don't know how severely autistic your son is, etc. Is it possible for him to learn that hitting the dog is not OK? Right now, of course, you can simply keep your son and your dog separated. But that isn't something you are going to want to do forever! You want your dog to be part of your family, of course!

I really think you can and should keep this puppy. Give him a chance.


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

I think 1 & 2 are not insurmountable and agree with Choc. Millie.

I cannot advise on #3, except to say that perhaps you can discuss with your son's therapy-providers what to do that. I don't think it's fair to keep a small dog if they are going to be hit (well of course I don't think hitting big dogs is okay either! But I'm thinking of the relative size of 2 yo vs. mini poodle)...but if there's a chance to help your son and the little pup stay together, I would try it.

Good Luck to you!


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## PoodleLicious (Nov 17, 2010)

How old is your puppy and how long have you had him?

The biggest problem should be your kid hitting him. Dogs learn really fast that kids are scary creatures. Then they start running from them all the time, or biting them.

The other two things are things puppies just do. Fact of life. Answer the first two questions and I can offer some guidance


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

Some of these concerns should have been thought about before getting a puppy. They are cute and cuddly but they are a handful, especially in your situation.

1. For potty training you absolutely have to be consistent with your training. You are letting him out for an extended period of time but he has no idea what that means. Taking him out like millie suggested and praising when he potties will let him learn that it's proper to do his business outside. It also helps if you take him to the exact same location each time (and makes clean up in your yard easier in the future).

2. Whining in the crate is very annoying, but your dog can learn to love a crate and feel safe and secure. Positive reinforcement works wonders on crate training. make the crate a GOOD place to be. 

For my dog Sagan I used to feed him in his crate because he is highly food motivated. The second he heard me pouring food into a bowl he would run into his crate and sit there until I brought the food to him. Poodles are very smart dogs and doing things over and over again will get them in a routine.

Also for potty training make sure to feed the same time daily. Also as a general rule a puppy needs to potty anywhere from 15-20 minutes after eating, playing, sleeping or drinking.

With water it depends. For Sagan I couldn't let him have water constantly because he used to drink until it was gone just to drink it. If he didn't feel like drinking it he would play in it. This wasn't fun. So, I would make sure to give him water before bed, then let out for potty, then give him a certain amount of water to have at night in a water-feeder thing that attaches to the crate. It kept him from playing in it and only allowed him enough to get through the night.

Don't even think about opening your dogs crate in the morning until you are ready to get to the door and let him out. 

Also, keep your dog near you at all times while they are young to prevent accidents or at least catch them when they happen so you can take your puppy out and praise them for doing it the right way.

Harsh punishments aren't needed for accidents. No need to spank or rub their nose in it or anything. A firm "no!" and a quick trip outside is fine (as long as you are catching them in the act!) If your puppy has an accident and 5 minutes later you see it...too late. Your pup has no idea why you are mad at him! At that point all you can do is clean it up and watch closer next time.

As far as your son. That's really something only you can decide. It should have been considered before bringing a puppy in. I imagine a reputable breeder would have been very cautious about placing such a young pup in that situation. If you think your son can learn not to hit dogs then that might be a possibility.

Unfortunately if the dog is in danger of getting hurt/abused even unintentionally it's probably best for the dog to find a new home.

Remember, try to do what's best for your puppy. Try to keep your feelings aside and do what's best for this little dog!


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

How sad.......You have received some pretty positive advise. I am not going to do that.

What I will say, is you should have thought about these short lived training needs that a puppy needs as well at its safety. 

People that go and get puppies thinking they are not that much work and rehome and its not even been two weeks.....shame on you really. 

I hope you at least find a home where the new owners will give this dog the home it deserves.


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## micah_mae_ (Feb 21, 2011)

Thank you! I definitely want to keep him, I consider him one of my kids already. The pressure is coming from my family mostly. Of course we should have probably thought about it more but reminding me of that now doesn't help. I don't just put him outside, we walk/run him and take him to a spot where he can go. We always praise when he goes outside.
My son isn't being malicious, he thinks he's playing. He also lays next to him on the floor and gives him kisses.
Thanks for the advice, he only had one accident today so he is making progress..it's just frustrating when I take him out and he goes on the floor inside not 10 min later.


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## micah_mae_ (Feb 21, 2011)

Olie said:


> How sad.......You have received some pretty positive advise. I am not going to do that.
> 
> What I will say, is you should have thought about these short lived training needs that a puppy needs as well at its safety.
> 
> ...


I don't even know what to say to you, I never said I would rehome. And when you say things like the bolded part it hurts my heart because I can't help but put "your son" in place of "this dog". I'm doing my best ok? I think a dog is great for my son and our family and we love him. Maybe we're not the best "parents" ever but does that mean we don't deserve a dog?


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

'Before and After Getting Your Puppy,' is a book we read that had some great advice for "potty" training. I won't say we've had perfect success, as we still cannot let her wander on her own about the house for hours, but we've had really good success.


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## micah_mae_ (Feb 21, 2011)

Bella's Momma said:


> 'Before and After Getting Your Puppy,' is a book we read that had some great advice for "potty" training. I won't say we've had perfect success, as we still cannot let her wander on her own about the house for hours, but we've had really good success.


Thanks, I've heard of that and I've skimmed it but haven't had time to sit down and read it.  I've been letting him out on a leash around the house so he can't wander far from me but still gets to hang out with us. Only one accident today so I guess it's helping.


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

If your son is hurting the dog (regardless what he THINKS he's doing) it's cruel and the dog should be rehomed.

It doesn't matter what his intentions are. He might be trying to play, but if the dog is getting hurt then the dog needs to be in a safe home. I understand you want the dog, you love the dog and think he's absolutely adorable but you need to do what is best for this puppy. If rehoming is the better solution i'm sure there are rescue groups who can help you find a home!

I agree it's probably good for your son to have a pet. Maybe not so great having a pet he can harm. If I were in your situation and I wanted this puppy I would NEVER leave the puppy unattended with your son. Dogs bite, even little dogs bite hard (trust me, im a dog groomer..little brats!) I believe any dog when threatened enough will bite. So, it's not just the dogs safety but for your son as well.

I'm not sure what you mean by "hitting" but if it ever gets bad enough that the dog sees fit to bite, i'm sure he will. I've seen dogs bite for a lot less.

These are things you need to consider.

If a dog isn't for you maybe consider something that stays caged. Hamster, snakes make great pets, lizards, something he can watch but doesn't really have to interact with.


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## Birdie (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm a bit surprised that you're considering something as drastic as rehoming the pup over potty training... potty training is something EVERY puppy goes through, not just yours. He's only been there 11 days- no dog will be reliable in less than two weeks. Don't worry, he'll get there.  Consistent training on your part is what will do the trick. Poodles are VERY smart, and he'll catch on soon. 
You have gotten some good advice for potty and crate training, and there is a plethora of information on the net about both of these simple, common problems. A quick google search, some "new puppy" books, etc will give you ALL the information you need and then some. Trust me, you're not alone with these problems! He will be happier when you know how to communicate to him what you want, and you will be happier with less pee, poo, and screaming puppy in your house. 

As for your son... I agree with the others: that is something only you can decide. You need to be fair to the puppy- if he does not feel safe or happy in the environment, it's not fair to keep him there. If he and your son can learn to live and play nicely together, it could be a wonderful thing for your son and your family. I know your son is not meaning to hit the dog, but it is still not fair to the puppy if he is being hit. He doesn't understand why, or that the boy is playing, just that he's getting hit randomly. It's scary for a puppy, and I feel that should be something you consider very heavily in regards to your new pup.


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## Skye (Feb 19, 2010)

I just want to say that I admire the fact that you are trying to see this through. You can only start from where you are now, and make the best decision based on what you know now. 

However, my biggest fear would be that your puppy will hurt your son, or your son will hurt the puppy.I am dealing with a similar situation, in the fact that my 2 year old gets a bit over excited sometimes with our two dogs. (A mini, and a toy.) I have to keep a VERY close eye on them, and I will crate them for everybody's safety if things look like they are going to get wild. I am trying to teach my son how to pet the dogs, but, he is 2. There are times they need to be seperated. 

All I can say is, you have a lot on your plate right now. Sometimes, we don't really know what something will be like until we are right in the middle of it.

You are doing your best to try to make it work, but, if it turns out to be too much for you, I hope you will contact a rescue to help you find a good home for the pup.

Poodle hugs; wishing you the best.


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

assuming your pup is from a breeder, perhaps you might want to contact him/her and discuss the situation.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Puppyhood is very hard. Potty training takes a lot of patience and time. Your puppy is a baby and doesn't know what you want of him. Yes, it can be frustrating. Your puppy will likely soon start nipping/gnawing and stealing and chewing up stuff you don't want him to, especially once teething starts. Raising a puppy takes a lot of management. To be honest, I can't imagine doing it with a 2-year-old, but I have no kids. It seems like you got this puppy impulsively, but that doesn't mean you can't make it work. It depends on how committed you are. But honestly, and I mean this in the gentlest way possible, if you think you might not be able to do it, it's better to regime him (to a rescue group) while he's still young... It's a much harder adjustment for an adolescent dog, especially if he hasn't been properly socialized, etc.


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## Lilith (Sep 29, 2010)

Wow, yeah. Potty training will likely be the least of your concerns.

My pup peed constantly the first 2 weeks I had her. And I mean _constantly_. I did the vigilant crating/outside/PARTY when she pees/back to crate thing, but she had zero bladder control for a while and would pee while walking or running. We got over that, but continued to have accidents in the house for 4 months, despite my best efforts (and wow did I try - seriously felt like a slacker for not being able to get to 100% faster despite keeping a (seemingly) airtight schedule). She had two more accidents in the house at 7 months when I brought 2 cats home. Still - potty training has been easy compared to things like training her not to chase the kitties, not to chase children when they run by or bike by or skate by, not to chase humans when they walk by on the beach.... that the neighbors are _allowed_ on their deck and should not be barked at, that cars are _allowed_ to drive by and should not be barked at,.. etc.

And now my pup is in her 2nd fear period, and umbrellas, squeaky gates, blowing litter, and rocks seem to be freaking her out. I can only _imagine_ if I added an impulsive 2 year old with a tendency to hit her in the mix. Ack! Right now - in her adolescent freaky period - would be when I would be most scared about safety of the kid. 

I'm not trying to be depressing or alarmist, I'm just saying I expect to see you on this forum a lot more in the near future as you work this out! You are going to need some serious patience and dog/kid/family management skills.  Would be so much easier for you if you could win the support of your family instead of having them tell you to give up. My only recommendation would be to solidly decide on a time frame - we are _keeping this puppy_ for _no less than [1 year?]_ so everyone must _get used to it_ and _help me_! - sort of thing. Then just dig in and do what must be done for dog and kids both. I have no doubt you have already gained the sort of rock-solid determination necessary, on behalf of your son. Pets are said to be good for autistic kids, although perhaps not so great for the caretakers who have to double their work and attention to manage it all! 

Good luck also with the refund on the training bit. Definitely a good idea to find and keep a good trainer - especially since your pup is going to need a lot of socialization and exposures to weird and different things to gain the patience and confidence necessary!


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

micah_mae_ said:


> Everyone is telling me that we should rehome our brand new puppy. We have only had him for 11 days. We really do love him but we are having a few problems..
> 1) He keeps having accidents inside despite me taking him out every 1-2 hours and staying out for long periods.
> 2) He has separation anxiety, can't even walk upstairs without him yelping and barking. He whines a lot.
> 3) My autistic 2 year old think hitting him is a great game.
> ...


Ah, that moment when the realisation dawns that the cute puppy is a pain in the butt :smile:.

Puppies take time. A lot of time. And constant monitoring. More so in your case, if your son may hurt the pup.

Housetraining will come, if you are persistent and vigilant. Puppies have to learn control, the same way toddlers do. He will sometimes forget, especially if excited and thinking about other things.

He's a bit young for separation anxiety. What he has is young-puppy desire to be safe; in his mind, safe is with you, not on his own. You can teach him to be happy on his own, but at his age, I would slowly work up to very short periods on his own, with lots of toys and Kongs to make it bearable. 

If you think you won't be able to devote the time to the training he needs, and if there is a chance your son could hurt him, I'd look at rehoming right away, while he can easily adjust to a new home. Waiting until he's a rambunctious 6 month old non-housebroken teenager of a dog is not a good idea; good homes will be harder to find.

Can you consult with his breeder? It may be that your circumstances at present aren't the best for raising a puppy.

Alternatively, there are lots of resources out there to help you make him a happy well-adjusted dog. Ian Dunbar's puppy books are great. You took a great first step by seeking out a behaviourist. It helps enormously sometimes to get a second opinion.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I agree - young puppies don't come ready house trained, and cry when they are away from their litter mates and people. That is what puppies do, and we all have to put a lot of effort into raising them to live happily with humans and dogs. Thnk of it like raising a child, but with a child's year of growth and mental development compressed into a few weeks of puppy life! This training is a matter of research, patience, and perseverance - but be aware small dogs can take longer to house train than bigger ones!

Like others, my biggest concern is your son hitting the pup. Even hitting with hands is painful - if he hits with hard toys he could do serious damage. A pup that is hurt will do one of two things - it will avoid the thing causing it pain, and/or it will defend itself by biting. Your son is a toddler, and autistic - understanding the feelings of others and impulse control are likely to be difficult for him for some time to come. Are you able to ensure the pup's safety and happiness, now and in the future, without adding an unmanageable burden to what must already be a pretty stressful life?

The first year with a puppy is hard work - housetraining, socialising, teething and chewing, learning bite inhibition by nipping everyone, educating, training, adolescent ructions, fear periods, learning to bark and barking at everything - the list goes on. I know some people cheerfully combine puppies and babies and toddlers, but I really don't know how they do it and manage any sleep at all!

You say that it is your family who are pressuring you to rehome your puppy. They know you, your children and your situation much better than we can. It is a decision only you can make, but sometimes the greatest love is shown by letting go. The truth is that young puppies often find good homes more easily than adolescent dogs. If you are feeling that you made the wrong decision getting a small breed puppy at this moment in your family's life, much better to rehome him now, than in 6 or 12 months when problems have become entrenched.

Having said all that, if you believe that you can cope, and decide to keep the puppy, we will be here with help, advice and support.


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## Cornishbecky (Nov 21, 2009)

Everyone has given great comments, even the ones you dont want to hear are still great comments!

What I read was that you already see this puppy as a "child", that will not help either toilet training or seperation issues!

my opinion, is that you should not keep this puppy just because you love him and its good for your child.
you should only keep this puppy if you can provide it with the life it deserves, which is not to be hit by a child no matter what his problems are! ever.

Bec


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## micah_mae_ (Feb 21, 2011)

Thanks everyone, he is 6 months old. We originally wanted a dog who was a few years old but this one kind of fell into our laps and he is great overall. 
I guess I was just misled about house training, I was told by a trainer that it could be done in a matter of days so I thought something was wrong with what we were doing!
So do most of y'all have kids or no? I can't imagine that every family with a 2 year old gives up their dog when the kid goes through a hitting phase.


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## all that jazz (Feb 6, 2011)

I have had my 4 month old for one month. I am retired and I chose to potty train him by watching him almost constantly and taking him out at the beginning of a "sign" or at the other designated times. This resulted in every one hour the first two weeks, and now about every 2-3 hours. He is bowel trained but not urine trained, just peed twice yesterday on the mat. He still does most everything outside on leash. This has been hard, hard, hard. In addition, the nipping/mouthing is tiring and annoying. Otherwise he has been a great dog. He also puts everything in his mouth. What I am trying to say is- normal puppy behavior is hard, hard, hard. I myself could not have imagined having done this with small children, even if I was home. If you are not prepared for this at this time I would vote for rehoming him. Also, not having your husband on board will also make the situation much more difficult. Maybe you just have to wait till the children are a little older. There is no shame in this and I would do it sooner then later. Just my opinion.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

micah_mae_ said:


> I don't even know what to say to you, I never said I would rehome. And when you say things like the bolded part it hurts my heart because I can't help but put "your son" in place of "this dog". I'm doing my best ok? I think a dog is great for my son and our family and we love him. Maybe we're not the best "parents" ever but does that mean we don't deserve a dog?


You are wondering how to get money back and you have not rehomed the dog yet......this implies you are seriously considering - which is fine i think you should find a better fitting home.

I don't believe you don't deserve a dog, I am telling you this was clearly not thought through or you would not be in the siutation you are in and so many others like you, no offense its just a fact.

Sorry, I feel very strongly about people willing to consider this after such a short time not fully considering the impact, the amount of dogs in shelters.......

This puppy is being a puppy. You have tough obligations at some to be dealing with a puppy and doing it properly. Can it be done, yes!! the choice is yours.


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## *Diana* (Dec 30, 2010)

You have already received some excellent advice ...My only advice to add would be that dogs and children should be supervised when together always.This way you can correct any bad behaviors and positively reinforce the good behaviors.Children don't understand until they are older that just stepping on a puppy/dog can hurt them ect..Or that waving there arms around and running excites most dogs/puppies. So make sure that if you or another adult is not there that the puppy is crated or in a safe place for both the safety of the dog/puppy and child


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

i got Ginger when she was 6 weeks old and it was 6 months before I could totally trust her not to mess in the house - it was a frustrating time and I didn't know about the forum or have such great advice coming my way, I also needed to get her a trainer and that helped immensely - she is a wonderful dog now and I don't regret all the hard work. However, I am retired - had a part time job when I first got her and my boss let me bring her to work with me - that helped immensly! and I really had the time to train her. I would carefull consider the advice about the dog biting your son - Ginger is good with older kids but she is fraid of younger ones because my daughter's grandaughter - who is ADHD and liked to pull the dog's hair when she was 1-2 - scared her. I would not trust Ginger near her then. (she is older now) so be careful of that situation and good luck! I have to say that it was all worth it with Ginger (even though at times I wanted to give up and take her back lol) she is my heart dog! I couldnt do without her!


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

As for rehoming - I knew that Teddy was a mistake pretty quickly on - he was 2 when I rescued him to give Ginger a playmate. Its not that I don't love him - he is just a bundle of energy and sometimes too much for me and for Ginger. He plays rought and she is scared to play with him outside because he comes running and slams into her and hurts her - but......I really do love him and he has made great strides in improving. When I got him he had no social skills, no training, he was sick, he didnt even know what a leash was. Now he walks pretty good on the leash and when he starts pulling I just have to say 'Ted!" and he looks at me and slows down (and then he goes fast again lol) so its a chore sometimes to walk him since Ginger is so easy to walk and I walk them together. anyway - he wasnt housebroken - at two years old! but it didn't take very long for that - he followed the other dogs example -He knows commands now - sit - stay- down (he fights me on that) and he is good boy most of the time - but I have to watch him closely for counter surfing and he has sto be crated if I go out - which is a shame since Ginger does not need that - but he goes right to his crate when I tell him. He is very food motivated - I would try feeding your dog in his crate - it makes them feel at home in there and safe. All the advice you have gotten is really good - I wish I had had this when I was in the 'puppy stage' with my dogs. -

I am always saying I am going to rehome Teddy because he is too much for me - but recently I was at the vet with him and the vet was admiring him etc and said he wanted a spoo - I could have asked then but I didn't! lol I guess I really don't want to rehome him after all! Good luck!


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## micah_mae_ (Feb 21, 2011)

Olie said:


> You are wondering how to get money back and you have not rehomed the dog yet......this implies you are seriously considering - which is fine i think you should find a better fitting home.
> 
> I don't believe you don't deserve a dog, I am telling you this was clearly not thought through or you would not be in the siutation you are in and so many others like you, no offense its just a fact.
> 
> ...


No, no...the money thing was about a dog trainer, not for the dog itself. The company has a program where you pay X amount of money and they come help you any time you need it for the life of the dog, but where we're moving they don't have a trainer there. Does that make more sense?
I was never wanting to rehome the dog. Besides the house training and whining we feel like we won the puppy jackpot, he's perfect for us.


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## micah_mae_ (Feb 21, 2011)

*Diana* said:


> You have already received some excellent advice ...My only advice to add would be that dogs and children should be supervised when together always.This way you can correct any bad behaviors and positively reinforce the good behaviors.Children don't understand until they are older that just stepping on a puppy/dog can hurt them ect..Or that waving there arms around and running excites most dogs/puppies. So make sure that if you or another adult is not there that the puppy is crated or in a safe place for both the safety of the dog/puppy and child


Good advice and I'll take it.  Thanks.


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## first poodle (Jan 12, 2010)

I believe you have heard lots of advice on puppy training and will work that thru as able. I hope your son's support people are working on a program for him to interact with the puppy. The puppy is probably a little young to be able to be a good support for your son and might not be any "help" while the therapy workers try to help your son to react in an acceptable way to the dog. But it does sound like your son enjoys the dog so that relationship could be a good tool in his therapy sessions, the dog may become his buddy! If your son has support people working on specifics ask them to make interaction with the dog a new program priority.


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## micah_mae_ (Feb 21, 2011)

Pamela said:


> As for rehoming - I knew that Teddy was a mistake pretty quickly on - he was 2 when I rescued him to give Ginger a playmate. Its not that I don't love him - he is just a bundle of energy and sometimes too much for me and for Ginger. He plays rought and she is scared to play with him outside because he comes running and slams into her and hurts her - but......I really do love him and he has made great strides in improving. When I got him he had no social skills, no training, he was sick, he didnt even know what a leash was. Now he walks pretty good on the leash and when he starts pulling I just have to say 'Ted!" and he looks at me and slows down (and then he goes fast again lol) so its a chore sometimes to walk him since Ginger is so easy to walk and I walk them together. anyway - he wasnt housebroken - at two years old! but it didn't take very long for that - he followed the other dogs example -He knows commands now - sit - stay- down (he fights me on that) and he is good boy most of the time - but I have to watch him closely for counter surfing and he has sto be crated if I go out - which is a shame since Ginger does not need that - but he goes right to his crate when I tell him. He is very food motivated - I would try feeding your dog in his crate - it makes them feel at home in there and safe. All the advice you have gotten is really good - I wish I had had this when I was in the 'puppy stage' with my dogs. -
> 
> I am always saying I am going to rehome Teddy because he is too much for me - but recently I was at the vet with him and the vet was admiring him etc and said he wanted a spoo - I could have asked then but I didn't! lol I guess I really don't want to rehome him after all! Good luck!


Thank you, feeding him in the crate is a great idea. Honestly that first night I was like "wtf was I thinking, I have to give him back"...but it has gotten so much better already and I'm glad I didn't.


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

From what I've heard about Bark Busters, DO NOT use them. I would get out of whatever contract or payment plan you have with them and find puppy classes that you can go to. Private training isn't very beneficial to puppies as they miss out on the socialization and distractions that you would have in a group class. 

As far as I know, Bark Busters uses methods that are too harsh for poodles (and most dogs). Look for positive reinforcement or clicker based training classes in your area. They are great for building a strong, trusting relationship between you and your dog.


As far as house training, keep your puppy on leash attached to you all the time. Every hour or two, take them out on leash to a spot and say "go potty". If the pup goes, praise and give lots of treats. Take pup inside and either crate or attach to you on leash. If puppy doesn't go within 10 minutes, bring back inside and put puppy in the crate for 10 minutes. Then take puppy out again to the same spot, give the potty command. Repeat the wait 10 mins outside, crate 10 mins inside until the puppy goes potty outside.


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

I second Locket's opinion of Barkbusters based on what I know. Check out the Howard County Kennel Club to see if there are group classes near you. I train at CTA in Beltsville, and they also offer beginner classes. As for getting your money back, I would just try to talk them into giving you a refund, and explain that you were given false information. If you put it on a credit card, you can also take it up with the credit card company. 

You've gotten some good advice here. My only addition would be that it would be better to rehome where you are now than when you move to Ft. Hood, based on what I know. Feel free to PM me, or check out Mid-Atlantic Poodle Rescue if you decide to rehome.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

I agree about Barkbusters. I would go straight to corporate on that one and tell them how one of their reps lied to you and got you to sign a contract with false information. If they don't respond, dispute it immediately with your credit card company.

If you decide to keep this puppy, you really must keep your little boy from scaring/hurting him. He is at an impressionalble age and you could literally scar him for life with negative experiences. Poodles are very sensitive. A big lab might not be too troubled by a toddler hitting and yelling, but a poodle, especially a small poodle, will be very bothered by it.

Lots of people have dogs and toddlers... it's hard, but doable. Fewer people have puppies and toddlers--it's harder! 

If you keep this puppy, commit to the following: 

* Protect him from your son (and protect your son from sharp puppy teeth)

* Socialize him properly by taking out frequently to as many different places as possible and exposing him to many different types of people and environments. 

* Sign up for a minimum of one to two group training classes (not Barkbusters). Find a class that uses positive training methods (i.e., clicker training). These classes are typically one hour per week for six to eight weeks.

I think you said you got this puppy from a pet store. If he has been in a pet store until 6 months of age, it sounds like you seriously lucked out that he doesn't have any serious behavioral issues. Being a pet store dog often makes housetraining harder, so you really need to be persistent. 

If you decide to keep this puppy, commit to him for life. Miniature poodles can live 15 years or more. He deserves a happy life with a family who will keep him.


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## fracturedcircle (Aug 19, 2010)

OK, so there's no breeder to be contacted. you may want to try Autism Service Dogs of America: ASDA

however, I am convinced that hitting the dog is unacceptable, period.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

micah_mae_ said:


> Thanks everyone, he is 6 months old. We originally wanted a dog who was a few years old but this one kind of fell into our laps and he is great overall.
> I guess I was just misled about house training, I was told by a trainer that it could be done in a matter of days so I thought something was wrong with what we were doing!
> So do most of y'all have kids or no? I can't imagine that every family with a 2 year old gives up their dog when the kid goes through a hitting phase.


A trainer told you that you could house train your puppy in a matter of days? Who on earth was this trainer? That is very bad advice. Is this your first puppy? Did your breeder provide you with any support or advice?


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

micah_mae_ said:


> So do most of y'all have kids or no? I can't imagine that every family with a 2 year old gives up their dog when the kid goes through a hitting phase.


I think the problem is having a puppy to train who needs to learn new things at the same time as the child who is in the same developmental phase. If people have an older mature well-trained dog first - it's not such a problem, and vice-versa. 

My youngest was 3 1/2 when we got our puppy and I totally regret the timing of it now. But we have survived. I hadn't anticipated how difficult it would be to try to "train" a child to be with a puppy that we are trying to train. I think the key with dogs is consistency, and that is hard when you have a child who isn't being consistent because they just aren't able to. The result is Bella pretty much just doesn't listen to her or respect her at all. We go through spurts where we work with her on it, and it helps, but you know it's just another thing to do. The plus side is the dog is learning and maturing much faster than my daughter.  The minus is they have the same attitude. My luck! 

My eldest was 7 1/2 and that was the perfect age and match, at least for him. He was/is very consistent with her. Bella respects him and listens to him.

To be honest, it's temperament, too. Dog and child. Even if my youngest were 7 1/2 I'm not totally convinced she'd be listening to me when it comes to training Bella! I can hope...


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## micah_mae_ (Feb 21, 2011)

Locket said:


> From what I've heard about Bark Busters, DO NOT use them. I would get out of whatever contract or payment plan you have with them and find puppy classes that you can go to. Private training isn't very beneficial to puppies as they miss out on the socialization and distractions that you would have in a group class.
> 
> As far as I know, Bark Busters uses methods that are too harsh for poodles (and most dogs). Look for positive reinforcement or clicker based training classes in your area. They are great for building a strong, trusting relationship between you and your dog.
> 
> ...


Thanks! That is great advice, today he has been accident free!


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## micah_mae_ (Feb 21, 2011)

ChocolateMillie said:


> A trainer told you that you could house train your puppy in a matter of days? Who on earth was this trainer? That is very bad advice. Is this your first puppy? Did your breeder provide you with any support or advice?


Yeah I'm calling the corporate office tomorrow. This is our first puppy, yes and he was from a pet store. It was a bad place, too. 6 months old and no training whatsoever, living in wood chips with other dogs who were rougher and tougher. They just said to crate train before potty training.


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## micah_mae_ (Feb 21, 2011)

Bella's Momma said:


> I think the problem is having a puppy to train who needs to learn new things at the same time as the child who is in the same developmental phase. If people have an older mature well-trained dog first - it's not such a problem, and vice-versa.
> 
> My youngest was 3 1/2 when we got our puppy and I totally regret the timing of it now. But we have survived. I hadn't anticipated how difficult it would be to try to "train" a child to be with a puppy that we are trying to train. I think the key with dogs is consistency, and that is hard when you have a child who isn't being consistent because they just aren't able to. The result is Bella pretty much just doesn't listen to her or respect her at all. We go through spurts where we work with her on it, and it helps, but you know it's just another thing to do. The plus side is the dog is learning and maturing much faster than my daughter.  The minus is they have the same attitude. My luck!
> 
> ...


Thanks, I think this is going to work out just fine..it would be better if Bear would run away from my toddler when I can't get there in time but he just stands there (I wonder if he's not actually hitting him as hard as I thought?). He just goes on chewing on his bone like nothing's happening.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

micah_mae_ said:


> Yeah I'm calling the corporate office tomorrow. This is our first puppy, yes and he was from a pet store. It was a bad place, too. 6 months old and no training whatsoever, living in wood chips with other dogs who were rougher and tougher. They just said to crate train before potty training.


That explains a LOT, actually. Puppies from pet stores/puppy mill puppies are often more difficult to potty train because they are so accustomed to having to urinate and defecate in their own, personal area. 

Wow. Six months old and not potty trained? A standard poodle? Geesh....

Crate train before potty train? Hmm...You definitely do them together. Crate training is potty training because they will not urinate or defecate in their personal quarters. Although, this often does not apply to puppy mill dogs or those from pet stores, again, because they are used to eliminating in their cage. 

Being from a pet store also explains the excessive whining when you leave the room. I was not aware that your puppy is 6 months old, that is pretty old to be so sensitive to you leaving. That is likely, again, due to being unsocialized, untrained and basically neglected.


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## micah_mae_ (Feb 21, 2011)

ChocolateMillie said:


> That explains a LOT, actually. Puppies from pet stores/puppy mill puppies are often more difficult to potty train because they are so accustomed to having to urinate and defecate in their own, personal area.
> 
> Wow. Six months old and not potty trained? A standard poodle? Geesh....
> 
> ...


He's a miniature but yeah. We go to pet stores a lot because my son loves to look at the animals but when I saw him living like that and the way he looked at me..I had to take him home. It was the worst pet store I've ever been in.
He has never had an accident in his crate so that's a big plus. He seems to be getting better at potty training.
With the whining...anything I can do? And does playing with the other neighborhood dogs count as socializing?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Taking him home did nothing but perpetuate the puppy mill problem. See, he gets a good life now. But his mom has no way out. She is somewhere in a mill having litter after litter, living in a kennel full of filth, never seeing daylight. 

I won't step foot in a store that sells puppies. Period.

As far as socializing, yes playing with neighborhood dogs is wonderful socialization. I would be taking him anywhere and everywhere.

For the whining follow the advice we gave you earlier in this thread - start leaving him alone for increasing amounts of time, praising him and only coming back when he has been quiet.


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## micah_mae_ (Feb 21, 2011)

ChocolateMillie said:


> Taking him home did nothing but perpetuate the puppy mill problem. See, he gets a good life now. But his mom has no way out. She is somewhere in a mill having litter after litter, living in a kennel full of filth, never seeing daylight.
> 
> I won't step foot in a store that sells puppies. Period.
> 
> ...


That's so sad..but while I can't save her, I could save him. And I am going to continue doing the best I can by him. 
What can be done about puppy mills?


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## Aireal (Feb 25, 2011)

micah_mae_ said:


> That's so sad..but while I can't save her, I could save him. And I am going to continue doing the best I can by him.
> What can be done about puppy mills?


not much, it is called supply and demand, as long as they have people buying there puppies even if it is people "rescueing" the pup they will continue to breed, only way to stop them is to not buy from them, but then there is always the next person that will buy the pup


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

There are organisations working to at least improve commercial puppy breeding - google "puppy mills" to see what is happening in you area. And spread the message - the trade thrives on people not realising the conditions in which all those cute pet shop and internet pups are bred.

Playing with the neighbourhood dogs is excellent socialisation, as is meeting as many different people as possible, of all shapes and sizes. Be guided by your puppy - if he is anxious or fearful, back off and give him more time. It does sound as if you have been very lucky, and got a dog with a fundamentally sound temperament despite his early life. I would enrol him in a reward based class ASAP - he will have the advantage of meeting new people and dogs - and you will have the advantage of sharing experiences with other dog owners going through the same issues, and worse. 

I am so glad to hear you are feeling more positive. He sounds a lovely pup - but do watch that hitting! Especially when he has a chew or a bone. See FozziesMum's thread on resource guarding for how things can go wrong.


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## micah_mae_ (Feb 21, 2011)

Aireal said:


> not much, it is called supply and demand, as long as they have people buying there puppies even if it is people "rescueing" the pup they will continue to breed, only way to stop them is to not buy from them, but then there is always the next person that will buy the pup


Kind of like how the dairy industry works huh...



fjm said:


> There are organisations working to at least improve commercial puppy breeding - google "puppy mills" to see what is happening in you area. And spread the message - the trade thrives on people not realising the conditions in which all those cute pet shop and internet pups are bred.
> 
> Playing with the neighbourhood dogs is excellent socialisation, as is meeting as many different people as possible, of all shapes and sizes. Be guided by your puppy - if he is anxious or fearful, back off and give him more time. It does sound as if you have been very lucky, and got a dog with a fundamentally sound temperament despite his early life. I would enrol him in a reward based class ASAP - he will have the advantage of meeting new people and dogs - and you will have the advantage of sharing experiences with other dog owners going through the same issues, and worse.
> 
> I am so glad to hear you are feeling more positive. He sounds a lovely pup - but do watch that hitting! Especially when he has a chew or a bone. See FozziesMum's thread on resource guarding for how things can go wrong.


Thanks, and yes I think we're very lucky. He loves playing wieth the other neighborhood dogs. I'll look into one of those classes, where do I find them? Are they like the ones they have at petco, etc ?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would look at organisations like the APDT, which have a some checks on who is registered as a trainer. You wouldn't pay for driving lessons from someone who has not passed their driving test, and a dog is much more easily damaged than car!

Information for Pet Owners

I am sure the US posters will be able to recommend other good classes in your area.


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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

I skimmed through all of the posts, and I don't think I saw the following suggestion (sorry if I'm wrong): I also have a profoundly mentally handicapped son (he's an adult now, living in a developmental center who can give him better care than we can). He is severely autistic, among his myriad of disabilities. When Joseph was much younger and still living at home (age 4), we wanted to add a dog to our household - we also have two other kids - 1 older child and 1 younger. We knew the dog needed to be calm and, above all, durable! 

We chose a four year old adult yellow lab (already house trained) who passed the "kid test" before we brought him home. The dog was my niece's dog, and she couldn't afford to keep him anymore. I allowed my 1 year old son (not the handicapped one) to literally craw all over this dog (of course I was watching like a hawk, even though my niece said the dog wouldn't care)! I have a picture of him sitting on him, like a pony! The dog didn't blink an eye and was a great kid's pet! My handicapped son, Joseph, loved pulling his tail and ears (of course, I stopped this each time I saw it), and the dog was so patient. If it got to be too much before I could get there to stop it, the dog would simply get up and move somewhere else.

I'm sorry, but I don't think a poodle, especially a small one, is the right fit. I know that my advice won't go over well with you, but from experience, I stick by my opinion. Good luck to you, with whatever decision you make. Unless someone else can walk in your shoes, they can't understand. Been there, done that!


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## Beach girl (Aug 5, 2010)

*Georgiapeach*, that sounds like the voice of real experience talking!

I had a fairly large dog (mixed breed, some sort of terrier/hound combination, probably - beautiful dog, despite the mix) many years ago. This dog was SO patient with little ones. We used to run into a young mother walking with her 2 year old daughter quite often, and I would allow the little one to "pet" my dog. I put "pet" in quotes because really she couldn't quite control her little hands, and it was more hitting (although softly) than petting.

My dog would take it for a minute or two, and then look at me and whine, like "OK, Mom, enough of this!" Then we would leave. No harm done EVER to the little girl, not so much as a growl or pulling away or anything - just the look at me and whine.

Would any of my poodles have stood for that? Not likely. Maybe Pippin would, to an extent. But the poodles (I've only had minis) would NOT have liked being treated for that, would not have sat patiently for it, and would have tried to escape. I doubt they would have nipped, but maybe, if they felt cornered.

Anyway - just to say, it sounds like a challenging combination, to have a mini poodle and a handicapped child who might have a hard time learning empathy and learning motor control. Your dog will be into his adult years, age 4 or 5, before your son grows up enough to have that control, I'm guessing. That is a LONG time for a dog to put up with that treatment, and a long time for you to be watching the two of them every single minute.

*Micah mae,* it sounds like you are making good progress with the training, and I applaud you for that and for searching out advice. If you decide to rehome, at least you will be rehoming a dog who has had some training, and that will make him more desirable to someone looking for a puppy.

All that said - another place to look for training is your county's Parks and Recreation department. I live in Fairfax County, and have only ever had classes through the county, including puppy kindergarten, basic and advanced obedience, and basic and advanced agility. Some instructors I have liked better than others, so I do ask who is teaching a class, to make sure I get the instructor I want. For F'fax county, registration for spring classes is just starting now; perhaps it might be the same for you. Well worth looking into, and the price is very reasonable, on the order of $100 or so, give or take a bit (agility is more expensive than obedience), per course.


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## micah_mae_ (Feb 21, 2011)

fjm said:


> I would look at organisations like the APDT, which have a some checks on who is registered as a trainer. You wouldn't pay for driving lessons from someone who has not passed their driving test, and a dog is much more easily damaged than car!
> 
> Information for Pet Owners
> 
> I am sure the US posters will be able to recommend other good classes in your area.


Thank you!



georgiapeach said:


> I skimmed through all of the posts, and I don't think I saw the following suggestion (sorry if I'm wrong): I also have a profoundly mentally handicapped son (he's an adult now, living in a developmental center who can give him better care than we can). He is severely autistic, among his myriad of disabilities. When Joseph was much younger and still living at home (age 4), we wanted to add a dog to our household - we also have two other kids - 1 older child and 1 younger. We knew the dog needed to be calm and, above all, durable!
> 
> We chose a four year old adult yellow lab (already house trained) who passed the "kid test" before we brought him home. The dog was my niece's dog, and she couldn't afford to keep him anymore. I allowed my 1 year old son (not the handicapped one) to literally craw all over this dog (of course I was watching like a hawk, even though my niece said the dog wouldn't care)! I have a picture of him sitting on him, like a pony! The dog didn't blink an eye and was a great kid's pet! My handicapped son, Joseph, loved pulling his tail and ears (of course, I stopped this each time I saw it), and the dog was so patient. If it got to be too much before I could get there to stop it, the dog would simply get up and move somewhere else.
> 
> I'm sorry, but I don't think a poodle, especially a small one, is the right fit. I know that my advice won't go over well with you, but from experience, I stick by my opinion. Good luck to you, with whatever decision you make. Unless someone else can walk in your shoes, they can't understand. Been there, done that!


Thanks for this..we did look into a bigger breed but my husband and my son are both allergic to cats and my son would not cooperate for allergy testing of any sort so we wanted to stick with a hypoallergenic dog.



Beach girl said:


> *Georgiapeach*, that sounds like the voice of real experience talking!
> 
> I had a fairly large dog (mixed breed, some sort of terrier/hound combination, probably - beautiful dog, despite the mix) many years ago. This dog was SO patient with little ones. We used to run into a young mother walking with her 2 year old daughter quite often, and I would allow the little one to "pet" my dog. I put "pet" in quotes because really she couldn't quite control her little hands, and it was more hitting (although softly) than petting.
> 
> ...


Thank you!


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## micah_mae_ (Feb 21, 2011)

I will not keep the dog if it ends up being too much or if my son shows no progress with the hitting thing. I don't want y'all to think that I am keeping him regardless of what's best, you know?
I've been trying to catch my son before he hits and say "no, that's not nice! Show him niiiiiice (while putting his hand on the dog and petting gently). Now give him a kiss because kisses are nice." Stuff like that. If he does hit before I get to him I say "No, we don't hit. Hitting is not ok. Tell him sorry and show him nice."


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