# Possible Neck/Back Issues



## Caniche (Jun 10, 2013)

Lately at our house it's been one thing after another with our dogs. First, Ryker developed juvenile cataracts almost overnight and underwent a successful surgery to remove them. His vision is wonderful! Then, Sadie - our elderly dog - came down with the doggie "flu" (two of our other dogs also had it) and stopped eating for two weeks. We eventually decided to put her to sleep since her health had deteriorated so extremely. Then Cash began vomiting on my bed several times a week in the middle of the night (we're still figuring that one out) and now *this* has happened with Ryker. 

The other morning (around 7:20 am), Ryker began heaving on my bed. I told him to get down and he jumped off my bed and vomited up a small (less than the size of a silver dollar) amount of foamy bile. Since he has acid reflux, I was not overly surprised.

What concerned me was that afterwards he acted like something was wrong. I called him back to bed and he laid motionless by where he vomited, completely collapsed on the floor. I went to pick him up and he was walking weird and holding his neck down. He was also shaking heavily.

Ryker did this once before - between the age of 1 and 2 years. It happened one night, again when he jumped off my bed (no vomiting that time) and it scared me half to death. We kept a close eye on him and by morning he was back to normal. 

This time, I let him outside (he just sat in the grass with his head down), gave him some Pepto and a little nurta-cal and held him in bed. An hour later when my alarm went off, he was fine. 

I also took a video of it this time. The video is dark and a little shaky, but you can tell that he is holding his neck awkwardly and is walking oddly. I plan on taking him to the vet, but I was curious if anyone here has seen this or has any ideas. 

Besides the juvenile cataracts and acid reflux, Ryker is pretty healthy. He does have grade 1 luxating patellas that he was born with, but this does not look like a knee issue. Plus, any other time he's ran around the house and jumped around like a circus dog. 

I am thinking that this is a skeletal/muscle issue since it seems to happen when he jumps off the bed. Of the thousands of times that he's jumped on and off beds, couches, chairs, etc. it's only happened twice. It seems to go away with some rest and time. 

Any ideas and thoughts? 

Injury - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZz7gZFw5XU


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

To me, it doesn't look like a skeletal or muscular problem. It looks like he is showing severe abdominal pain. I would lean more towards maybe pancreatitis or gall bladder issues. If it happens again, I would show your vet the video tape and have bloods run while the episode is happening or soon after. You may want to ask you vet about Famotadine for the reflux.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

I can see what you mean - he doesn't look comfortable or happy.

This is from left field, but my previous dog (a bichon mix) had similar symptoms at about age 6. Vet couldn't figure it out but eventually he suggested an x-ray because he had a hunch. It turned out to be a compressing disc in her spine. Not a common thing in her breed (s), - more common in longer bodied breeds like beagles and dachshunds. She was treated with cortisone and confined rest to stop the swelling and pain. It worked and except for one more episode at around 11 years of age, she had no further issues. However, if Ryker is having an issue like that, you'd best find out immediately because untreated, the disc can press on the spine enough to cause paralysis ( usually first in the hind quarters).

I mention it because he is a toy and you've noticed it after he jumps from the bed - which is the sort of thing which could possibly aggravate something like that, if indeed he has this issue.

Not wanting to scare you - N2Mischief is likely correct that it may be a digestive issue. I just wanted to put this out there as something to mention to the vet, as they don't often go for an x-ray on first exam.

ETA My Minnie really had no further problems with that and lived to a ripe old age (17+ years). She did not need ongoing treatment for it either, so this wasn't a costly ongoing issue.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Poor thing. I agree with what the others have said. Also maybe having his ears check. The way he held his head in the first video made me think possible inner ear issues. I hope you can get him to the vet and that he feels better soon. Poor thing he doesn't need anything else to happen, he has already been through so much ?.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

I would not let him jump off the bed anymore if you can help it. I know he's young, we had to put my Annabelle (RIP) down because of a ruptured disk in her upper shoulders.... caused by jumping down. They land really hard. His may be any of the above mentioned things, but, just to be safe, don't let him jump down.


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## Caniche (Jun 10, 2013)

N2Mischief said:


> To me, it doesn't look like a skeletal or muscular problem. It looks like he is showing severe abdominal pain. I would lean more towards maybe pancreatitis or gall bladder issues. If it happens again, I would show your vet the video tape and have bloods run while the episode is happening or soon after. You may want to ask you vet about Famotadine for the reflux.



He's on Famotidine already. Good tip though!


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## Caniche (Jun 10, 2013)

hopetocurl said:


> I would not let him jump off the bed anymore if you can help it. I know he's young, we had to put my Annabelle (RIP) down because of a ruptured disk in her upper shoulders.... caused by jumping down. They land really hard. His may be any of the above mentioned things, but, just to be safe, don't let him jump down.



My groomer told me the same thing after the first time it happened. Unfortunately, this is impossible. Ryker leaps all over the place inside and out. 99.99% of the time he's fine, but twice this has happened, years apart, but it is scary. He's only 3 years old and still acts like a puppy. Other than leashing him 24/7, that would not be a feasible long term solution.


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## Caniche (Jun 10, 2013)

nifty said:


> I can see what you mean - he doesn't look comfortable or happy.
> 
> This is from left field, but my previous dog (a bichon mix) had similar symptoms at about age 6. Vet couldn't figure it out but eventually he suggested an x-ray because he had a hunch. It turned out to be a compressing disc in her spine. Not a common thing in her breed (s), - more common in longer bodied breeds like beagles and dachshunds. She was treated with cortisone and confined rest to stop the swelling and pain. It worked and except for one more episode at around 11 years of age, she had no further issues. However, if Ryker is having an issue like that, you'd best find out immediately because untreated, the disc can press on the spine enough to cause paralysis ( usually first in the hind quarters).
> 
> ...




I'm very glad that Minnie had a long, happy life. And I'm glad you shared this information with me. 

The fact that he only vomited once when it happened and both times involved jumping from the bed made me consider a skeletal or muscle issue first. 

Either way, I'm definitely taking him to the vet.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Caniche, a suggestion I have based on my daughter's ideas with her toy -- she has a leather-look storage box which she keeps at the foot of her bed. It makes a perfect intermediate step for her pup for getting up and down onto the bed. It didn't take her long to learn to use it (and she was 2 years old before it was introduced - because my daughter got a new, higher bed).


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## Caniche (Jun 10, 2013)

Okay, so we're taking Ryker to the vet today to get this and his horrible breath checked out as well as Cash's chronic and constant vomiting,

Wish us luck!


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## Suddenly (Aug 8, 2013)

Sending poodle vibes. Hope Ryker is ok! Keep us posted..


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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

I hope you get some good information from your vet visit today! Praying it's not serious.


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## Caniche (Jun 10, 2013)

Sorry for the late reply. Grooming academy starts in one week and I've been getting all my gear together. 

As for Ryker's update...I'm a bit conflicted. I've taken my dogs to the same veterinarian hospital for years as has my mom with her dog and our family dogs growing up. There are four veterinarians there - one will bill you for everything and anything to make a buck, another is very cold and distant, the third is very knowledgeable and thorough (we usually take our new puppies to him) but doesn't remember me even though I've been a client there for years and the fourth is personable, understands financial restraints and is completely compassionate. She's the one who hugged me when I was sobbing when Ryker was diagnosed with cataracts. But I just took Ryker and Cash in for their yearly physicals and I'm a bit concerned. I'm making a new post for my experience with Cash, but I wanted to update you all on Ryker from here. 

I showed the veterinarian the videos posted above (she barely seemed to look at them) and she immediately diagnosed it as an epileptic seizure or possibly low blood sugar.

She won't do blood work until he's had more episodes (he had one when he was around a year old and had another when this was posted, plus a mini one a few days after the second one) to confirm seizures. I'm not convinced. Even if his body isn't acting like a seizure, I know his mind would still be having one. And I've seen dogs with seizures. Ryker looks right at me when his neck and back seem out of order and he has a hard time moving. His eyes are locked on me and he's listening to me. 

Plus, these episodes seem to coincide with him jumping off a bed or couch. The vet says that if it was a back or neck issue, he'd be screaming in pain. 

So for now, we wait. As usual. I just hope it's not epilepsy.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Hi Caniche, thanks for the update. I can understand your conflicted feelings!

The vet says he would be screaming in pain? I don't buy that. A dog will certainly yelp in pain briefly after an injury etc - and perhaps if it is literally experiencing an ongoing, unrelenting trauma of some sort (such as an attack)...but screaming in pain if he has a chronic source of pain? I do not believe that is accurate. Thinking about dogs with serious gum disease, cracked teeth, injured limbs etc - has anyone really seen a dog keep up a steady stream of screaming? Even a dog badly injured after being hit by a car will yelp or even scream at the point of contact/injury and then lie quietly, favoring the limb.

I believe this is evolutionarily instinctive. An injured animal quickly becomes prey in the wild.

My Minnie suffered from a very painful tooth for I don't know how long until the groomer alerted me to it and she needed surgery. The only way I could tell the difference after was because she was eager for her kibble again - before that, I just put the lower appetite down to old age. She never whimpered or cried, and I Had no idea she was in pain.

Also, when Minnie had the inflamed disc in her spine that I mentioned earlier in this thread, the only clue I had was behavior similar to your Ryker. Minnie didn't jump up on beds (allergies in the family) however, I noticed when she went outside and usually jumped off the deck to go pee, she showed the kind of reluctance Ryker showed in your video and eventually took to taking the steps very slowly. She was also trembling and staying quietly in one spot. NO crying or screaming at all.

It took the vet a couple of visits to figure it out. At first he thought ah you are over reacting to perhaps some fear of thunderstorms (I noticed the first symptoms during some severe weather and wondered about that) - but on the second visit, he thought of the possibility of a back injury and recommended an x-ray - she did need to be sedated for the x-ray as he needed to lay her on her back with her paws and legs all splayed). The x-ray showed the inflamed disc and he knew what it was then for sure.

A 10 day course of cortisone and crate rest was the treatment and he said it isn't a guaranteed thing, but with luck, the inflammation would go down and she would be back to normal. It did work and she was back to herself. We were told to watch her for it in future because it is a condition and likely to flare up (Like arthritis or similar) and if it does flare up, she would need to repeat the steroids and crate rest so as to not aggravate her symptoms due to the risk of damage to her spinal cord. 
Luckily, Minnie only had one other brief episode at about age 9 and then never again. She lived an active and full life and we forgot about the spinal issue most of the time now that we knew what to watch out for. She lived to be over 17 years old, with no other serious health issues.


ETA I can't remember what the condition was called - but it was a degenerative disc disorder usually more typical of longer-backed dogs such as dachshunds and beagles.

Anyway, I'm no vet and perhaps it is seizures. However, I would not dismiss other possibilities due to lack of screaming. Also you know what you saw and you didn't see seizure like symptoms in Ryker.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I hope your vet brings his/her A game. Let us know what happens.


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## ipekur (Sep 9, 2014)

we just went through the same scary ordeal with our standard poodle.
He was running and then suddenly lowered his neck and laid down. almost identical to the video you included.
He became better and then much worse. In the morning he could not stand and we took him to the emergency.
He ended up having the spinal disk compressing on the nerves. We got very lucky that the University hospital had the neurologist on stuff. Surgery department was pushing for surgery $$$$$ but neurologist suggested we wait a day and see. He was becoming better and started to move.

We ended up treating his conventionally with anti-inflammatory (not steroids, because they are bad for dogs) and he is "motoring around" now. Still does not have full control of the small muscle movements. 

Important for recuperation (I would advise you to to this just in case):
No stairs,
No collar!
No jumping, 
No tug toys
If keeping in crate, crate has to be big enough for the dog to turn around without bending the neck

It all happened because he was wearing a collar!!!
Poodles have very ling necks, they usually do not have problems with spine, but neck is an exception.
We should have never used a collar on him (I purchased a wide one too, but it didn't help).
Use harnesses!
I am in process of finding a harness which does not put any pressure on the neck, and so far could do not succeed.

Good luck with your dog and I hope he heals fast!


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