# Puppy Socialization



## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

I've been reading here and elsewhere that taking the puppy out and about before the final shots is risky -- and also that failing to socialize the puppy adequately before 12-16 weeks is equally or even more risky (due to possible behavioral issues later). 

I've seen people mentioning taking puppies out in a carrier or up in the owner's arms. My question for experienced poodle folks with calm happy adult poodles is this: will my puppy receive the socialization benefits as well if she is up in my arms and going to places (such as busy city streets, walking through crowds, meeting people, etc) as she would have done if she was down on her own four paws walking along?

I am hoping to train my puppy for therapy work - so this is really vital to me to get it right. I'll be living in a big city by the time she is a few months old and will be taking her on daily walks in very high traffic and crowds. Right now I live in a suburban location and am ready and willing to go to the city frequently while she is still young for socialization and I want to make sure I give her the very best start possible in getting used to the noise and activity early - but safely!

Feedback greatly appreciated!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

nifty said:


> I've been reading here and elsewhere that taking the puppy out and about before the final shots is risky -- and also that failing to socialize the puppy adequately before 12-16 weeks is equally or even more risky (due to possible behavioral issues later).
> 
> I've seen people mentioning taking puppies out in a carrier or up in the owner's arms. My question for experienced poodle folks with calm happy adult poodles is this: will my puppy receive the socialization benefits as well if she is up in my arms and going to places (such as busy city streets, walking through crowds, meeting people, etc) as she would have done if she was down on her own four paws walking along?
> 
> ...


Here is my point of view, which comes from discussions with other breeders, trainers, and multiple vets including my reproductive veterinarian (ie- he works with a lot of puppies and breeders): I encouraged my puppy buyers to PLEASE take their puppies out WELL before the final set of shots. That waiting until the final set of shots is more harmful to the socialization of the puppy than it is risky healthwise. I told them that they could socialize their puppy at friends and family's homes and around friends and family's vaccinated pets before the second set of shots, and that after the second set of shots (12 weeks) they could socialize their puppy anywhere except at the dog park. I strongly suggested enrolling in puppy obedience class after the second set of shots, and to not wait until the third set.

My opinion is that NO your puppy will not receive the same benefit being carried as she will receive walking on her own two feet. I do however believe that carrying the puppy in public is essential *before* the second set of shots, but not after the second set.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think small, happy doses as early as possible is the way to go. Carrying her is certainly a good way to start to accustomise her to things safely, but even then I would not go too fast. I would start in your quieter suburban area, and when she is relaxed about things there try somewhere rather busier, gradually building up to the hectic city. You want her to find all the experiences fun and interesting, rather than alarming, especially as she has no option to escape when she is being carried.

At the same time I would find a good, safely run puppy class, and ask to visit friends with vaccinated, well socialised dogs. Taking her to safe places where she can get used to children and adults is also a good idea. Socialising her well is certainly a good foundation for therapy work, but do be aware that not all dogs enjoy that sort of work, even if they can be persuaded to tolerate it.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Thanks CharismaticMillie! That was what my hunch was, too - I will have my puppy the last week of June and am getting so excited! The local dog club offers AKC Star puppy training beginning 12 weeks I think (with proof of vaccinations) and I intend to sign her up for the first available class. I think I will take my pup to the city (up in my arms) a couple of times between 8-12 weeks, and then on careful 'down on all fours' excursions (avoiding dog parks, of course) after the 12 week shots.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Thanks fjm - that's a helpful reminder about not all dogs being suited to therapy work. I have let my breeder know this is my plan - and have asked her to select a puppy who seems temperamentally suited to that work. However, my primary reason for getting my SPOO puppy is as a beloved companion, so if the therapy work doesn't happen, that will be OK. I still intend to train her to be a calm poodle out among people and am planning to train for Star Puppy and Canine Good Citizen - and perhaps more advanced obedience. If she seems like she would benefit from and enjoy agility, then I may go in that direction. However, I am better suited to community work myself, so I do really hope my puppy will also be suited for that so that we may enjoy community volunteer work together.

ETA fjm, your point about starting slow in my local quieter area is a really helpful one. I had intended to work my way up (just because easier for me) and your point abut the puppy's tolerance and not being able to get away is well taken! Thanks!


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## Grandma's Boys (Feb 28, 2014)

I have been taking my Puppy to the Nursing home I work in from shortly after I go t her. She gets lots of people to hold her and pet her. She has also been aloud to play with neighbors fully vaccinated dogs after her first set of puppy shots. She started her puppy class last week at 13 weeks. She felt very comfortable playing with the other puppies. She also loves people and kids if all ages. I have a 2 year old Grandson and a neighbor babysits a 3 year old girl that she plays with frequently.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Thankss Grandma's Boys - how cool that you can take your puppy to work with you!! I bet the residents really enjoy her!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Here is my point of view, which comes from discussions with other breeders, trainers, and multiple vets including my reproductive veterinarian (ie- he works with a lot of puppies and breeders): I encouraged my puppy buyers to PLEASE take their puppies out WELL before the final set of shots. That waiting until the final set of shots is more harmful to the socialization of the puppy than it is risky healthwise. I told them that they could socialize their puppy at friends and family's homes and around friends and family's vaccinated pets before the second set of shots, and that after the second set of shots (12 weeks) they could socialize their puppy anywhere except at the dog park. I strongly suggested enrolling in puppy obedience class after the second set of shots, and to not wait until the third set.
> 
> My opinion is that NO your puppy will not receive the same benefit being carried as she will receive walking on her own two feet. I do however believe that carrying the puppy in public is essential *before* the second set of shots, but not after the second set.


CharismaticMillie, Ian Dunbar would be so happy to hear that you encourage early socialization so strongly. It really is vital and there is evidence that puppies can go to puppy classes before they are fully immunized without risk of parvo. I have posted this link elsewhere, but will do so again because this is *THAT IMPORTANT.*

Puppy Classes And Canine Parvovirus | Dog Star Daily


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Thanks lily cd - I have been reading your thread on the Ian Dunbar seminar you attended and it is very helpful.

I am totally down for starting puppy classes as early as possible - however our local club will not let them start before 12 weeks - and the first class after my puppy comes home will start when she is 11 weeks - so the next one won't start until she is 17 weeks old! :O I am considering calling them to ask if I can sign her up for the earlier one and just start in the second week and then carry on to the next one also.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

nifty said:


> Thanks lily cd - I have been reading your thread on the Ian Dunbar seminar you attended and it is very helpful.
> 
> I am totally down for starting puppy classes as early as possible - however our local club will not let them start before 12 weeks - and the first class after my puppy comes home will start when she is 11 weeks - so the next one won't start until she is 17 weeks old! :O I am considering calling them to ask if I can sign her up for the earlier one and just start in the second week and then carry on to the next one also.


I would just start in the second week! I've done that before.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Thanks Millie! I'm going to do that! I plan to call the dog club today and get her signed up. LOL I don't even have my puppy yet (picking her up on June 28) and I feel like I am already running out of planning time!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I agree sign your pup up and start the second week. You are going to be great since you are doing so much clear thinking ahead of time.

I am going to dig out my Ian Dunbar notes and add to that thread too.


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## nifty (Aug 2, 2013)

Hooray! I am looking forward to reading more. You have such a clear and easy-to-understand writing style.Very helpful!


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