# Sick Peggy - Positive vibes, please :(



## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

All three of you are in my heart...

Edited to say I just reread your post about her leash catching on the log. Suggest an orthopedic consult with someone familiar with neuro issues, too. Just a thought.

Try and get video. And, this is scary, but odds are over the top for recovery 🙏🥰, whatever is going on. Virtual hugs to you.


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## Apricot mini momma (Dec 22, 2020)

I’m so sad for this, hang in there Peggy. Maybe the heat? Fingers crossed for answers from the vet.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Streetcar said:


> All three of you are in my heart...
> 
> Edited to say I just reread your post about her leash catching on the log. Suggest an orthopedic consult with someone familiar with neuro issues, too. Just a thought.


Oh my gosh yes! I went through a list of possible culprits and completely forgot that one. I felt her hind legs were looking weak, but the vet didn’t believe there was anything neurological going on. Maybe this additional piece of the puzzle might make her rethink that.

Thank you, @Streetcar.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Apricot mini momma said:


> I’m so sad for this, hang in there Peggy. Maybe the heat? Fingers crossed for answers from the vet.


It’s been pretty mild here, but thank you for helping me brainstorm. I now can’t distinguish between her symptoms and the side effects of the cerenia. I kind of wish we’d said no thank you.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Keeping you all close in my thoughts.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Thinking about it more, @Streetcar, one of her symptoms has been a low-hanging head. It’s almost looked like she is depressed, but I’m now seeing this is a sign of neck trauma. I didn’t connect the dots because she seemed fine for a week after it happened. Paired with the arched back and seeking our help, I can absolutely see that this could be neck pain and/or muscle spasms related to that accident.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Rose n Poos said:


> Keeping you all close in my thoughts.


Thank you, Rose.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Thinking about it more, @Streetcar, one of her symptoms has been a low-hanging head. It’s almost looked like she is depressed, but I’m now seeing this is a sign of neck trauma. I didn’t connect the dots because she seemed fine for a week after it happened. Paired with the arched back and seeking our help, I can absolutely see that this could be neck pain and/or muscle spasms related to that accident.


My last dog hit a gopher hole at high speed in the park, and all ten pounds of her precious self went tumbling down a hill.

Get thee to an orthopedist regardless of what your vet says, imho, and soonish is good. My girl had different symptoms, but some lasting effects, but raced around again.

It is tempting to _not_ say this, and I would _only_ do it after a full ortho consult, but a legit dog sports chiropractor might be a secondary consult, depending on what the ortho DVM finds and thinks. I'd only go with one exceptionally experienced and recommended by HIGHLY rated agility veterans and trainers. Like national level competitors. You wouldn't want some random to just start banging on Peggy and maybe injuring her more seriously. But DVM specialist first imho.

You'll work through this 😘😘😘🌻🌷🌸.


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

Wishing you guys all the best. Sending you all positive vibes.


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

Prayers for you and Peggy. I can only imagine the anxiety you're experiencing. Hang in there.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

She is so lethargic, but now that it’s bedtime, she’s struggling to settle. I think we’re in for a long night.

I’m at such a loss.  I wish we could communicate in the same language.

She’s done a few weird burps tonight, and had one round of intensely smelly gas last night (or so my husband says—I still haven’t regained my sense of smell). I suppose this is consistent with our vet’s hypothesis, that it’s stomach pain. Will be anxiously awaiting the results of the blood work.


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## Pavie (May 4, 2021)

Oh no, poor Peggy! I hope the vet will be able to figure out what is going on. 

I read your post on August 21that she got some foxtails at a nearby beach. Do you think a stray foxtail might have burrowed into the skin?

Wishing you and Peggy all the best and hoping for a speedy recovery.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Holding you in my thoughts - take care of yourselves as well as Peggy. Have you done the foot placement test, and can she when she is feeling a bit better follow your hand with her nose round to her shoulder? Both quick things I have used to check for damage or stiffness.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Pavie said:


> Oh no, poor Peggy! I hope the vet will be able to figure out what is going on.
> 
> I read your post on August 21that she got some foxtails at a nearby beach. Do you think a stray foxtail might have burrowed into the skin?
> 
> Wishing you and Peggy all the best and hoping for a speedy recovery.


We’ve been searching every inch of her, but she’s so shaggy. One could easily be hiding somewhere. She has a grooming appointment on Wednesday, but if she’s not feeling well, I can’t put her through that. Then again, shaving her down could reveal whatever it is that’s bothering her. Dilemma!!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> Holding you in my thoughts - take care of yourselves as well as Peggy. Have you done the foot placement test, and can she when she is feeling a bit better follow your hand with her nose round to her shoulder? Both quick things I have used to check for damage or stiffness.


The vet did the foot test and some other hands-on examinations, with no concerning results. I’ve also been manipulating her gently, all over, and getting no responses that would suggest pain. But I’ll try that shoulder test in the morning.

During today’s episode, her stomach was very taut. I was terrified it was bloat. But as soon as she came out of it, her stomach relaxed again.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

Thoughts and prayers to you'all winging your way from Alabama. It is so hard to see our dear poodles through these kind of problems.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Thank you, Claire, Steve, and @Happy'sDad. Appreciate you all very much!


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## CharlietheToy (Oct 20, 2021)

Oh, gosh, what a scary thing, I hope you find the answer soon and best wishes in the meantime. I'd never seen a parti poodle before Peggy and I've become very fond of her reading your posts.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

So upsetting to have them unwell and not to know how to help. Having suffered from agonising bouts of trapped wind myself it would explain the symptoms - hunched and unable to register anything going on until everything shifts a little. I hope you can get a firm diagnosis soon, and something fast acting to keep to hand should it occur again.


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

I hope both you and Peggy were able to sleep some. I hope the vet has some answers and she is back to normal very soon. 💕🙁 Thinking of you all.


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## Looniesense (Jul 10, 2021)

Hope they figure out what’s going on soon. It’s really hard to see our pups not feeling well and in distress. Sending healing vibes your way xx


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

My love to Peggy and you. Tons of well wishes coming your way. 
💫 💗🕊


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## Getting ready (May 4, 2019)

sending love and hoping you get some answers today.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Oh how very scary!!!! Its terrifying when you don't know what's wrong, but can see that something definitely is very wrong. 

How does she react if you gently massage along her spine and vertebrae?

Sending lots of love for Peggy and you. I hope you both got some sleep and that Peggy feels a bit better today.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Really hoping that you get an answer today. 
Sending prayers and hugs. ((((Hugs)))). My poodle boys send poodle kisses too.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

I hope you were able to get some sleep last night and that your vet will have answers today.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Sending prayers for a complete recovery🙏. I hope everything just resolves.


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Oh no Peggy! I hope she feels better. It's so hard when it's obvious something is wrong, but it's not nearly as obvious what that something actually is.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Just read this post I am so sorry Peggy is sick. I hope she has a full recovery.


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## beowoof (Dec 6, 2021)

fingers crossed for good news today.


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## JasMom (7 mo ago)

I’m hoping you get some good news on Peggy today! ❤


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## CNYspoo (Sep 22, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> Keeping you all close in my thoughts.





PeggyTheParti said:


> I don’t have the energy to go into detail, but yesterday Peggy had a weird episode, that we hoped was just a blip. I described it here: Peggy Pics
> 
> Well, today my husband was 30 minutes away at a work meeting when it happened again except much, much worse. I thought she was dying right in front of me. Within seconds I was on the phone with our vet, 1 hour before they closed, making sure they could see her, while simultaneously texting a friend to see if she could drive 15 minutes from her house to help. By the time she arrived, Peggy was able to stand and we rushed her to the clinic. She was seen right away, but we don’t have any answers yet.
> 
> ...





PeggyTheParti said:


> I don’t have the energy to go into detail, but yesterday Peggy had a weird episode, that we hoped was just a blip. I described it here: Peggy Pics
> 
> Well, today my husband was 30 minutes away at a work meeting when it happened again except much, much worse. I thought she was dying right in front of me. Within seconds I was on the phone with our vet, 1 hour before they closed, making sure they could see her, while simultaneously texting a friend to see if she could drive 15 minutes from her house to help. By the time she arrived, Peggy was able to stand and we rushed her to the clinic. She was seen right away, but we don’t have any answers yet.
> 
> ...





PeggyTheParti said:


> I don’t have the energy to go into detail, but yesterday Peggy had a weird episode, that we hoped was just a blip. I described it here: Peggy Pics
> 
> Well, today my husband was 30 minutes away at a work meeting when it happened again except much, much worse. I thought she was dying right in front of me. Within seconds I was on the phone with our vet, 1 hour before they closed, making sure they could see her, while simultaneously texting a friend to see if she could drive 15 minutes from her house to help. By the time she arrived, Peggy was able to stand and we rushed her to the clinic. She was seen right away, but we don’t have any answers yet.
> 
> ...


My husband and I are CNY spoo but I have never posted before. I have fallen in love with the beautiful Peggy and am always eager for pictures of her. Now I’m worrying with you and fervently hope she does well. Sending healing wishes


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## ShamrockPoodle (Jan 22, 2017)

Sending hugs and get well wishes for you and Peggy. Hoping some meds and rest will help.


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

Poor Peggy and poor you. Sending love and good thoughts your way.


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## Christine.G (Nov 19, 2020)

Our sweet Peggy! As @CNYspoo said we have all fallen in love with her! Hugs to all of you!


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## VJM (Oct 28, 2019)

Fingers crossed for a positive resolution. It’s dreadful when they feel bad and doubly dreadful when you aren’t 100% sure what is going on.


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## FGL902 (Jan 6, 2022)

Sending comfort to both you and Peggy! Here's hoping you have answers soon and she's on the mend quickly.


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## Haitch (6 mo ago)

Oooh noooo , bless and 🙏


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## Puppy Love (Aug 10, 2015)

Poor Peggy! You're all in my thoughts and prayers. Hoping for answers for you and a speedy recovery.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

Heartfelt love to Peggy and all her humans...


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## a2girl (Oct 4, 2020)

Sending healing energy to Peggy and hugs to you. I hope you get some resolution today. It's so hard not knowing what's wrong---I am worrying along with you!


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## Rian (Sep 17, 2021)

I'm so sorry you three are going through this. Sending as many positive vibes as I can. 💜


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Thank you all for the kindness. Just got the news that her blood work was normal.

It was a rough night with lots of pacing. Just as I’d drift off to sleep, I’d hear her wake up and start her rounds again. She seems obsessed with all of her water sources, checking them over and over again but only drinking a normal amount. Same with her “treat kibble” spots—she visits each of them, looking for a stray kibble, but then refused breakfast. She seems disoriented and depressed. Peed and pooped this morning, but her poop was very dark, and it was uncharacteristically soft, as it’s been all week.

I felt her all over again, @For Want of Poodle, paying special attention to her vertebrae, and still got no pain response. So I continue to ponder the possibilities.

Pancreatitis? Could explain the two “episodes” and she was fed all sorts of things by my visiting in-laws, including a large quantity of Fritos. The day after they left, she did four massive poops which were soft by the end and haven’t regained their firmness all week. Mid-week there was some blood.

Possible bacteria from lake, a week before first episode.

Possible exposure to pesticides, just a few minutes before first episode.

Neck or spinal injury from beach accident, a week before first episode.

A foxtail somewhere? She got into a ton of them the day of the beach accident. We tried to get them all, but how can you know?

Has become obsessed with drinking directly from faucets. Could gulped air cause stomach pain? Like you, @fjm, I feel like trapped gas could explain the two episodes, but maybe not this horrible malaise. She didn’t even show any interest when my husband came in the door this morning. That is a first. She also didn’t acknowledge our neighbour in the backyard, just a dozen feet away.

The vet didn’t hear any unusual noise in her intestines, but as I type this, I can hear some slight tummy squishing noises from across the room. Peggy has also been burping more than usual and had uncharacteristically foul gas the evening after the first episode.

Will continue to think through this. Our vet’s new assistant was extremely rough with her and I’m reluctant to go back today. But I’m not sure I have much choice.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

From all you describe I would suspect extremely uncomfortable stomach and possibly pancreatitis. Has the vet suggested a bland diet - one of the gastro canned foods, perhaps? Sophy behaved similarly when she reacted badly to metacam post op - metronidazole helped, along with a soothing food.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Is it possible the uncharacteristically dark poop is due to blood in the poop? Did they want a fecal sample. Maybe bring one for analysis? 
Is she behaving normal at times, or off track constantly?


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

What does the Vet intend to do next? Maybe a scan of her tummy and intestines is called for.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> From all you describe I would suspect extremely uncomfortable stomach and possibly pancreatitis. Has the vet suggested a bland diet - one of the gastro canned foods, perhaps? Sophy behaved similarly when she reacted badly to metacam post op - metronidazole helped, along with a soothing food.


I’ve not been able to get the metronidazole into her, as she only will sporadically eat a few kibbles and it must be taken with food. Have you ever given it without food?

The vet made no dietary recommendations and Peggy is refusing even plain chicken.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Is it possible the uncharacteristically dark poop is due to blood in the poop? Did they want a fecal sample. Maybe bring one for analysis?
> Is she behaving normal at times, or off track constantly?


They didn’t ask for one, but I’m going to collect one and bring it in. She had some normal moments after Sunday’s first episode, but since the second episode on Monday, she has been depressed, lethargic, and just....odd. Her tail is down, she is restless, and the only glimpses of “Peggy” I get are when she tilts her head when I talk to her.

As I was typing that, she came and stared at me so I said “Show me.” She circled the couch, picked up a ball (which made my heart soar), and did a super slow-motion version of our usual chase-around-the-dining-room-table game. There was even a slight tail wag. Joy!!!! But then her head and tail dropped low and she went straight to her bed. It’s like she wants to do normal things, but can’t. She is breathing heavily now.


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## Johanna (Jun 21, 2017)

Zoe and I will keep you and Peggy close to our hearts today. Blessed be.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Oh Peggy! We all love you and are wishing you better...


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## Looniesense (Jul 10, 2021)

When did she start drinking from faucets, before or after the leash incident? If after, maybe her neck really is sore? I’m sure you tried hand feeding her but also maybe it hurts to bend and reach her bowls/plate.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

SteveS55 said:


> What does the Vet intend to do next? Maybe a scan of her tummy and intestines is called for.


They left a voicemail on my husband’s phone. No further plans. Just wanted to let us know “the good news” and hope we have “a great day.”

I will be calling them back to discuss.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Looniesense said:


> When did she start drinking from faucets, before or after the leash incident? If after, maybe her neck really is sore? I’m sure you tried hand feeding her but also maybe it hurts to bend and reach her bowls/plate.


Before. She’s always loved drinking from faucets. But always after lots of time spent playing or sunbathing. Never in the middle of the night.

I can’t get her to eat from my hand today. Yesterday she would.


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## Dianaleez (Dec 14, 2019)

How far is the nearest state vet school with a clinic?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Dianaleez said:


> How far is the nearest state vet school with a clinic?


I think this might be the closest: Check out our new hospital website

About 6 hours away.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

I remember Elroy losing interest in food after he got a bad taste in his mouth from licking me while I was wearing mosquito repellent (sorry Elroy). He didn't eat for at least 24hrs. If Peggy licked or ate poisoned soil/plants (herbacide) maybe it could be why she won't eat. Do you think she could have done more than sniffed in that garden? You'll just need to help her thru this with loving comfort. Hopefully time will make things better. Hang in there Robin and Peggy and family. 
Has she had a recent dose of Heartworm or Flea/Tick medicine? Maybe a reaction to one?


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## Christine.G (Nov 19, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> They didn’t ask for one, but I’m going to collect one and bring it in. She had some normal moments after Sunday’s first episode, but since the second episode on Monday, she has been depressed, lethargic, and just....odd. Her tail is down, she is restless, and the only glimpses of “Peggy” I get are when she tilts her head when I talk to her.
> 
> As I was typing that, she came and stared at me so I said “Show me.” She circled the couch, picked up a ball (which made my heart soar), and did a super slow-motion version of our usual chase-around-the-dining-room-table game. There was even a slight tail wag. Joy!!!! But then her head and tail dropped low and she went straight to her bed. It’s like she wants to do normal things, but can’t. She is breathing heavily now.
> View attachment 496872
> ...


Cher bebe


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## DogtorDoctor (Mar 20, 2020)

I'm so sorry y'all are going through this and Peggy is feeling so poorly. It definitely sounds like some imaging may be a good next step. I hope you are able to have a productive conversation with your vet once they call so that you can address the fact that Peggy isn't feeling better with her current treatment.

If you're thinking about pursuing a specialist's opinion, I would do that as soon as possible only because many specialists are booked weeks to months out (at least in Texas). Your vet should have a better idea of the waiting game in your area.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

94Magna_Tom said:


> I remember Elroy losing interest in food after he got a bad taste in his mouth from licking me while I was wearing mosquito repellent (sorry Elroy). He didn't eat for at least 24hrs. If Peggy licked or ate poisoned soil/plants (herbacide) maybe it could be why she won't eat. Do you think she could have done more than sniffed in that garden? You'll just need to help her thru this with loving comfort. Hopefully time will make things better. Hang in there Robin and Peggy and family.
> Has she had a recent dose of Heartworm or Flea/Tick medicine? Maybe a reaction to one?


You’re on the same page as my husband. He doesn’t want to subject her to more medical intervention until we get through at least a few of these antibiotic pills. She just ate her first one after my husband managed to hand-feed her a few kibbles and some chicken. That’ll have to do.

No heart worm or flea/tick meds.


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## TyrannicalTrix (5 mo ago)

I really, really hope Peggy gets better soon. Keeping you guys in our thoughts!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

DogtorDoctor said:


> I'm so sorry y'all are going through this and Peggy is feeling so poorly. It definitely sounds like some imaging may be a good next step. I hope you are able to have a productive conversation with your vet once they call so that you can address the fact that Peggy isn't feeling better with her current treatment.
> 
> If you're thinking about pursuing a specialist's opinion, I would do that as soon as possible only because many specialists are booked weeks to months out (at least in Texas). Your vet should have a better idea of the waiting game in your area.


Thank you for weighing in. So happy to have you on the forum.

I just got off the phone with the vet tech. She wanted us to bring Peggy in for the day, so they could examine her and run tests as time allows. We’ve opted instead to see how she responds to the metronidazole, now that we’ve finally gotten one into her. We’ll also bring in a sample of her next poop.

Our groomer is going to bring her table over tomorrow and shave Peggy down to search for foxtails or any sign of foxtail injury. It’ll be less stressful than taking her to the shop, and will also protect the other dogs in case Peggy has something contagious.


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## JasMom (7 mo ago)

Can your vet give an antibiotic injection in case Peggy won’t take the next dose?


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## PowersPup (Aug 28, 2020)

I so sad to hear about poor Peggy! It's so stressful to have an ill pet. It's wonderful that your groomer is coming to your house to shave Peggy. I'm keeping you in my heart and my thoughts. I am just so fond of Peggy and. your posts about her.


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## DogtorDoctor (Mar 20, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Thank you for weighing in. So happy to have you on the forum.
> 
> I just got off the phone with the vet tech. She wanted us to bring Peggy in for the day, so they could examine her and run tests as time allows. We’ve opted instead to see how she responds to the metronidazole, now that we’ve finally gotten one into her. We’ll also bring in a sample of her next poop.
> 
> Our groomer is going to bring her table over tomorrow and shave Peggy down to search for foxtails or any sign of foxtail injury. It’ll be less stressful than taking her to the shop, and will also protect the other dogs in case Peggy has something contagious.


I think that sounds like a great plan for her, considering you were able to entice her to eat and get her pills. Luckily we're also not close to the weekend yet, so you have time to see how she'll respond to her medications before all the normal clinics close. 

Please keep us updated!!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

DogtorDoctor said:


> I think that sounds like a great plan for her, considering you were able to entice her to eat and get her pills. Luckily we're also not close to the weekend yet, so you have time to see how she'll respond to her medications before all the normal clinics close.
> 
> Please keep us updated!!


Thank you. And yes—always keeping an eye on the clock and the calendar, especially since we don’t have an emergency clinic here! Certainly adds stress to an already stressful situation, trying to time urgent care to business hours.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

JasMom said:


> Can your vet give an antibiotic injection in case Peggy won’t take the next dose?


With enough patience and Peggy psychology, we should always be able to get the pill into her. It’s the food part that’s proving tricky. She needs to eat with each dose.

If we aren’t successful tonight, I’ll ask about an injection tomorrow. I’m sure they’d accommodate us.


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Is it worth inquiring with a specialist? If they're booked far in advance, having an appointment on the books that you can cancel is better than deciding you need one and not being seen for another week.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Poor Peggy! 

I've had some success with enticing sick dogs to eat by smearing a bit of smelly wet food on their nose. They find it annoying, lick it off, then realize 'wait ! I AM hungry', and eat a little bit more. If that doesn't work, it's an immediate emergency in our house. 

Is she drinking at all? Do you know how to monitor for dehydration? Did the vet recommend electrolytes? 

Did they offer her a pain injection? When Annie had pancreatitis, she got both nausea and pain injections, and then oral medication afterwards and definitely needed both to be willing to eat.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Liz said:


> Is it worth inquiring with a specialist? If they're booked far in advance, having an appointment on the books that you can cancel is better than deciding you need one and not being seen for another week.


I am thinking seriously about this, but I’m not sure who we would even make an appointment with. Her gas is putrid and filling the whole house, and her stomach is now gurgling audibly and near-constantly. This doesn’t seem like a neck injury. Our vet’s theory that she picked something up at the lake seems more and more likely.

Here’s the gastro timeline, keeping in mind she acted totally normally until the last two days:

Friday 8/15 - Lake day; in the water for hours; loads of snacks from in-laws.

Saturday 8/16 - AM bile vomit; didn’t think much of it as she’d done the same thing a few days previous and had been eating non-stop junk from in-laws for two weeks, which had recently led to her skipping dinner.

Sunday 8/17 - Four MASSIVE poops, increasingly soft; last day with in-laws and therefore loads of goodbye snacks. (Also the same day her leash got caught on the log.)

Monday 8/18 - Had to poop so badly, she went in the garage, which has never happened before; it was again giant, but mostly solid; poops have been soft since this day.

Friday 8/19 - Blood in poop; no appetite until late evening, at which point she was ravenous.

Saturday 8/20 - Very smelly gas in evening; not normal for Peggy.

Sunday 8/21 - First weird episode; looked to be in some sort of painful spasm while zoned out; lethargic for rest of day.

Monday 8/22 - Second weird episode, much worse than the first; emergency vet appointment; cerenia injection; lethargic and disoriented every since; very dark, runny poop, which I think looks black, but my husband does not.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Poor Peggy!
> 
> I've had some success with enticing sick dogs to eat by smearing a bit of smelly wet food on their nose. They find it annoying, lick it off, then realize 'wait ! I AM hungry', and eat a little bit more. If that doesn't work, it's an immediate emergency in our house.
> 
> ...


I will try the smear trick. Thank you! She is obsessed with checking her water sources, but drinking a normal amount. I will keep an eye out for dehydration. I usually use a neck pinch for that.

The Cerenia injection she got yesterday provides some pain relief.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Maybe ask your vet if metro HAS to be given with food? It seems like maybe no? Perhaps it is recommended but not necessarily required.


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## ShamrockPoodle (Jan 22, 2017)

Oh dear—I hate to feel that way at the vets office. Good you got the metronozole down . I usually have to make a meatball with a small amount of wet food. Harder if they won’t readily take it. Mine have had elevated enzyme s before that caused similar issues—but that showed up in the blood work. Guess you could request a scan if meds don’t help. So sorry the tech was rough. I struggle with this as well. Sending hugs and prayers .


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

I might have missed it somewhere along the line, but have they taken x-rays to rule out an obstruction?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Adding a little sunshine to this thread. Happy to see she at least feels well enough to find a sunbeam.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

TeamHellhound said:


> I might have missed it somewhere along the line, but have they taken x-rays to rule out an obstruction?


The vet didn’t feel she was showing signs of an obstruction, since she’s still pooping, was eating, and is not vomiting. Think I should push harder? There have been no x-rays.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Sending hugs and prayers 
No knowing is awful


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Praying for you all and hoping some relief for Peggy. It's awful. Could she have a serius bout of constipation? There is often still some passage when constipated and usually nausea aswell.


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

Bless her little heart!


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Continuing good thoughts, and as always your record keeping is fantastic. Sure is sounding gastro. Peggy, sweet girl, get well ❤‍🩹.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

After reading the time line, the one that is the most concerning to me is the dark/black loose stool. The attached link goes over some possible causes. The last one, internal bleeding, in the digestive system is most concerning. I'd want the stool sample checked immediately. 








Black Dog Poop: What it Means | Great Pet Care


What does it mean when you see black dog poop? We explain the most common causes of black poop in dogs and will let you know when you should be alarmed.




www.greatpetcare.com


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

I am so glad to hear that you managed to get a pill into her. 

Way to go Team Peggy.

Please keep on this trajectory, Peggy! We are all pulling for you and awaiting updates (as your humans can manage them, of course).


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## Looniesense (Jul 10, 2021)

Did they X Ray her? That’s really the only way to eliminate the possibility of bloat/ torsion or that she ate something that is somehow stuck. I had to insist on x rays for my first Spoo when the vet said he had no outward signs of bloat/torsion but the Xrays did show that his stomach had twisted.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

94Magna_Tom said:


> After reading the time line, the one that is the most concerning to me is the dark/black loose stool. The attached link goes over some possible causes. The last one, internal bleeding, in the digestive system is most concerning. I'd want the stool sample checked immediately.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, it was concerning to me, as well. But I didn’t get a sample when it was fresh. Will be getting a sample from her next poop, and the vet will screen for blood, in addition to parasites.

Was just speaking to a friend and giardia has been affecting a lot of dogs in our region recently.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Looniesense said:


> Did they X Ray her? That’s really the only way to eliminate the possibility of bloat/ torsion or that she ate something that is somehow stuck. I had to insist on x rays for my first Spoo when the vet said he had no outward signs of bloat/torsion but the Xrays did show that his stomach had twisted.


I hate to say it, but since it’s been a couple of days now, if this was torsion, she’d likely no longer be with us.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Update: Peggy just went to get my husband. She asked him to follow her back to her Snoop. He filled it up for her, and she quietly played with it, eating each kibble until it was empty.

She’s shut back down again, but seeing her seek out food feels good. I’m guessing the Cerenia might be wearing off.


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

No matter how us humans fret, our doggies know how to get well. Sometimes they need some human help, like antibiotics. If it is Giardia, the antibiotic you are giving her will likely knock it out. I'm not a Vet, but they should be able to test for that or otherwise rule it out. Peggy could have picked that up in the lake she visited. If not that, a nasty bug she picked up that needs to run it's course.


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## Miki (Dec 25, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> The vet didn’t feel she was showing signs of an obstruction, since she’s still pooping, was eating, and is not vomiting. Think I should push harder? There have been no x-rays.


Maybe so. My sister's spoo scarfed down part of a corn cob that bounced around in his stomach for close to 3 weeks while she was on a road trip with him from MA, through Canada, and down to St. Paul, MN. He had on and off issues with inappetence, nausea, rumbly tummy, diarrhea and discomfort, bad enough for her to stop at a couple of vets on the way. It wasn't until she arrived in Minnesota that my vet took some x-rays and discovered the piece corn cob. Surgery was the only way to get that piece of cob out of there. He was about 3 or 4 at the time, and recovered well. 

Sending pawsitive thoughts to all of you. ❤


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> The vet didn’t feel she was showing signs of an obstruction, since she’s still pooping, was eating, and is not vomiting. Think I should push harder? There have been no x-rays.


I would. Or even ask for a barium study. It could be a partial obstruction, or possibly an intussusception. If nothing else, x-rays and/or a barium study could help rule those out.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Poor sweetheart Peggy. I have no suggestions, only hugs from afar, and hopes that your vet or a specialist will figure this out.


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## Pavie (May 4, 2021)

Miki said:


> Maybe so. My sister's spoo scarfed down part of a corn cob that bounced around in his stomach for close to 3 weeks while she was on a road trip with him from MA, through Canada, and down to St. Paul, MN. He had on and off issues with inappetence, nausea, rumbly tummy, diarrhea and discomfort, bad enough for her to stop at a couple of vets on the way. It wasn't until she arrived in Minnesota that my vet took some x-rays and discovered the piece corn cob. Surgery was the only way to get that piece of cob out of there. He was about 3 or 4 at the time, and recovered well.
> 
> Sending pawsitive thoughts to all of you. ❤


Could it be the corn on the cob? 🤔



PeggyTheParti said:


> Peggy has been getting sooooo many snacks from visiting family members. She might need a break.  She pooped _four times _yesterday, and then today took a massive poop in the GARAGE, because we didn’t realize she desperately had to go a second time.
> 
> Poor girl’s got a belly full of Fritos. (Yep, Fritos.) And watermelon. And grilled chicken. And corn on the cob. And on it goes.
> 
> Time for a little detox.


I hope you will figure out soon what's going on. 
Sending positive thoughts to you and Peggy.


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

Robin, I'm just now reading your posts. I'm so sorry that Peggy is ill and I am sending healing thoughts her way. 
I agree about the x-ray -- it might be prudent to have one done.


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## Bigbark (Jan 9, 2021)

Heartfelt wishes for Pegg’s complete recovery.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

She ate three dinners of wet food, but otherwise shows no improvement. I feel bad that we’re putting her through the stress of being shaved tomorrow, but the vet tech said a foxtail could be behind her symptoms and that is really the only way to find it. I do have total faith in our groomer and she is being so kind, coming to our house.

Next metronidazole pill is in a few hours. Its side effects can overlap with her symptoms, which certainly complicates things.

It’s so hard to know if we’re doing the right thing, or prioritizing the right next steps.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> She ate three dinners of wet food, but otherwise shows no improvement. I feel bad that we’re putting her through the stress of being shaved tomorrow, but the vet tech said a foxtail could be behind her symptoms and that is really the only way to find it. I do have total faith in our groomer and she is being so kind, coming to our house.
> 
> Next metronidazole pill is in a few hours. Its side effects can overlap with her symptoms, which certainly complicates things.
> 
> It’s so hard to know if we’re doing the right thing, or prioritizing the right next steps.


Trust the Love that you are and the love that you have for your girl. That’s really all we have, in the end. It’s the best course. Unfortunately there’s a billion unknowns in the universe, and certainty can be such an illusion. But you’ve got the Love, let it guide you.

You’re doing it all just right, friend. And I’d be willing to bet that Peggy feels it, too.

We are all cheering you on, right PF crew?


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

(And to add to my last post— I’m continuing to beam lots of love from here. You’ve got us all beaming it from all around the world).


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## Benni (Dec 31, 2021)

Poor Peggy...hope she will recover completely soon.


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

PeggyTheParti said:


> She ate three dinners of wet food, but otherwise shows no improvement. I feel bad that we’re putting her through the stress of being shaved tomorrow, but the vet tech said a foxtail could be behind her symptoms and that is really the only way to find it. I do have total faith in our groomer and she is being so kind, coming to our house.
> 
> Next metronidazole pill is in a few hours. Its side effects can overlap with her symptoms, which certainly complicates things.
> 
> It’s so hard to know if we’re doing the right thing, or prioritizing the right next steps.


It sounds to me that you are doing everything you can. You have gotten a lot of opinions here, but in the end you know Peggy better than anyone and what's best for her. Continued positive vibes being sent your way.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I just saw this thread as I only come on the forum in the evening most of the time. I’m very sorry Peggy is ill; this must be so hard on you. I’m sure you are very tired with worrying all the time and not sleeping. And poor Peggy. :-(

I will be keeping you in my thoughts. So many possibilities have been said and this is a very long shot, but have you thought about COVID ? She could have caught it from an asymptomatic relative. Dogs very rarely get it but there have been some reported cases.

Hang in there. xxx


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## MaizieFrosty (Apr 12, 2019)

Oh, poor Peggy :'( Keeping her in my prayers.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Sorry to read this. Gentle hugs and good wishes.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Hoping for an improvement. Praying for you all.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

A stool sample seems a very sensible next step, especially as it means no additional stress for Peggy. I hope she begins to improve soon - I understand that the metronidazole can have a soothing effect as wll as antibiotic, so may help in that way too. Sending waves of supportive thoughts to you all.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I’m so sorry (((hugs))).It’s so difficult to see our pets sick and they can’t explain to us all their symptoms. The unknown is scary.

I use metronidazole to treat Babykins ulcerative colitis. If she has a rare significant bout, it takes about 1.5 days to see a improvement. I do sometimes have to pill without a meal. 

I’m hopeful Peggy is turning a corner since she started to eat.


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## The Popster (Feb 23, 2021)

Gosh, so so sorry about .....
Our hearts go out to you.
But!!! Peggy has got an appetite back !!! That is very very positive!!

Sending you strength, power and much love!!!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Reading all your kind words and thoughtful advice has been such a huge help. Thank you.

Peggy pestered us for food right up until bedtime last night, so there were no concerns about giving her a second dose of metronidazole. This morning she trotted up to me with a slow wiggle and a big smile, which I haven’t seen in a few days. But she had little interest in breakfast, not even when I sweetened the deal with a bit of mozzarella. This is unfortunate, as I was hoping to get a little FortiFlora into her.

I asked her if she wanted to watch some Turner Classic Movies, and she hopped right up onto the ottoman and settled in:










I took that as a yes.

Stool sample was clear, although giardia can evade detection. Just waiting to hear from the groomer now about what time to expect her.

Despite the lethargy and obvious malaise, I’m happy to say there have been no further “episodes” since Monday’s emergency. I’m running with the trapped gas theory, while still wanting to rule out foxtail injury with the groomer’s help.


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

Sounds like she's on the mend.....very good news!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Definitely sounding better - steady recovery now, Peggy.


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## a2girl (Oct 4, 2020)

Happy to hear that there is some improvement---keeping you both in my thoughts! Thank you for keeping us posted---we all love Peggy Sue!


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

Yay for pretty Peggy!!! 💕


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## ShamrockPoodle (Jan 22, 2017)

Glad Peggy is feeling better!!! Hopefully it was just being off of her regular routine. Hope the grooming goes well!!!


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Glad to hear there's no blood in her stool. Seems like she's slowly improving. It's definitely leaning towards better news. Hang in there ❤.


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

Good to hear. While it's frustrating not to know the cause, it's equally comforting to hear Peggy condition has turned for the better.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Happy'sDad said:


> Good to hear. While it's frustrating not to know the cause, it's equally comforting to hear Peggy condition has turned for the better.


Yeah, I really wish we knew the cause. Even as she’s perking up, those two episodes are weighing heavily on my mind. Our groomer will be here shortly, and she’s going to bathe and shave Peggy down. She feels it’ll be easier to spot any foxtails or skin injuries with her wet.


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## Tulsi (Jun 8, 2021)

Oh goodness how stressfull. I hope you are able to get to the root of the problem.

Glad Peggy is a little better, bless her.


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## Puppy Love (Aug 10, 2015)

Glad Peggy seems to be on the mend. Hopefully, she doesn't mind the grooming too much.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Before:










After:









Our groomer asked to set up in the place Peggy would be most comfortable, so we decided on the living room:









I didn’t get any “during” pics, but it was fascinating watching her work and she found FOUR foxtails. 

No blow drying. No shaping. Least possible stress for our sick girl. I’m so grateful.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Glad you got her groomed. She must be feeling better without foxtails sticking in her. Poor girl. Hope for improvement. Gentle hugs.


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

Glad to hear that Peggy seems to be feeling better. I hope she is soon back to her old self.

Wow, four foxtails! This is why I live in fear during foxtail season. These awful seed heads are SO difficult to find in poodle fur. Your groomer was extremely kind to come to your house to bath and clip Peggy.


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

May I ask, where did she find the foxtails?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Happy'sDad said:


> May I ask, where did she find the foxtails?


I didn’t ask, but she said there was no skin redness or obvious irritation. So while they may have poked her, they were still being gripped by her hair and weren’t burrowing in.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Was it very stressful for her? She looks great!


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## Wooster Tim (Nov 11, 2021)

oh goodness. what a stressful time for you and Peggy. Glad to read that things are looking up.


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## TeamHellhound (Feb 5, 2021)

Goodness. I hope getting rid of the foxtails solves her problems.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I’m glad she was able to tolerate the grooming. She must feel a lot better. Poor thing, her eyes definitely don’t look right.


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## Pavie (May 4, 2021)

I'm so glad to hear that the groomer got the foxtails out. Hope this will solve all her problems. Sending healing thoughts.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

What a wise choice to continue with grooming even though she’s not feeling well. What did Peggy think of her groomer showing up at her home? I expect that’s a bit like meeting your teacher at the supermarket. 😊 Hoping the metro and grooming continues her on the path to health.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

I am very glad to hear that things are starting to look up for sweet Peggy. I’ve been worried for her. Hoping and praying she gets better every day and that she will soon be back to her old self.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Was it very stressful for her? She looks great!


She doesn’t ever love grooming, but she coped fine. Her groomer is amazing. After a stressful few days, it was really fun to sit back and watch her work and love on Peggy. They have all these little routines I didn’t know about. Like, I had no idea Peggy had a cue to be lifted onto the table. She puts her paws up, waits patiently, and then the groomer does the rest. They also have lots of little kissy rituals and it was wonderful at the end when the groomer said, “Can I take her out back to play? We always play after.”

She chose to shave her down wet so she could see clearly to her skin and examine her for injury. The result is a very choppy looking poodle, but we weren’t going for aesthetics. Just all about Peggy’s comfort today.

I’ll clean it up a bit myself in the coming weeks.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Starla said:


> What a wise choice to continue with grooming even though she’s not feeling well. What did Peggy think of her groomer showing up at her home? I expect that’s a bit like meeting your teacher at the supermarket. 😊 Hoping the metro and grooming continues her on the path to health.


I felt bad at first, imagining how I would feel if I had the flu and my hairdresser showed up at my house. But it was the right decision. We’d already cleaned at least a dozen foxtails out of her coat and from between her toes. I knew there could be more lurking.

As for how she felt about her groomer showing up at the house..... She was ecstatic at first. They had a long hug at the front door and it looked like Peggy was trying to climb into her arms. But a few minutes later, as we got the bathroom set up for a bath, we noticed Peggy was missing.  I think she quickly figured out what was going on because we found her on her back on the living room carpet, in full surrender pose.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

TeamHellhound said:


> Goodness. I hope getting rid of the foxtails solves her problems.


I don’t think they were the source of the illness or even the scary episodes, but they could very well have been poking her and causing some discomfort. And left in her coat, they could definitely have caused some serious problems down the road. We’d already removed at least a dozen ourselves.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

An exciting update that only my fellow dog lovers will appreciate:

_Peggy just did a big, *solid* poop. _


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

_“Okay, yes, it was quite solid, but did you really have to announce it to the world?”







_


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

YAY! It is 4.30am here, I am up with Poppy who has a very nasty tummy bug, and I can really appreciate what good news this is! How is she in herself?


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

Peggy's eating and took a solid poop! Yes, only a dog lover could appreciate that!


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## Apricot mini momma (Dec 22, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> _“Okay, yes, it was quite solid, but did you really have to announce it to the world?”
> View attachment 496904
> _


Beautiful photo of beautiful Peggy. I’m thrilled about the poop 💩. She must have been happy too!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> YAY! It is 4.30am here, I am up with Poppy who has a very nasty tummy bug, and I can really appreciate what good news this is! How is she in herself?


Ohhhhh no.  My sympathies to you both.

Peggy is still subdued, but it’s been a hard few days. She’s definitely seeming more like herself with every hour that passes.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Apricot mini momma said:


> Beautiful photo of beautiful Peggy. I’m thrilled about the poop 💩. She must have been happy too!


She seemed a little shocked.


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## Footprints&pawmarks (Mar 8, 2021)

Hallelujah! For unto us a good, solid poop....

(If you've never had a dog with poop problems, you probably can't relate. If you have, you know that bursting into song or doing a little dance is exactly what you do!)

Congrats.

(And with apologies to G. F. Handel!)


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

fjm said:


> YAY! It is 4.30am here, I am up with Poppy who has a very nasty tummy bug, and I can really appreciate what good news this is! How is she in herself?


Get well Poppy 🤗


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Wonderful update. Glad Peggy's on the mend,


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Things are going in such a positive direction 🤩. About to allow a sigh of relief...


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

When Sophy had a really nasty bug it took nearly three weeks before she was really herself again. She is older than Peggy of course, and it was only a few weeks after a GA for her spay op, but I think we sometimes underestimate how debilitating a stomach virus can be. Steady recovery and don't overdo things while convalescing, Peggy Sue.


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## The Popster (Feb 23, 2021)

Great news !!!
Smile for the day !!


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## Looniesense (Jul 10, 2021)

Very good news!


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

Very glad to hear that Peggy seems to be on the mend. Your groomer did a nice job too.


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## JasMom (7 mo ago)

Wonderful updates! Peggy’s groomer sounds amazing, by the way!


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

Relieved to hear that she seems to have rounded the corner and hoping that someone's able to shed light on the cause.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Liz said:


> Relieved to hear that she seems to have rounded the corner and hoping that someone's able to shed light on the cause.


Unless she gets worse again, I doubt we’ll ever know. Since fecal testing commonly misses parasites, it seems like those results aren’t ever going to be conclusive. Frustrating, but I’m not going to subject her to more invasive tests as long as she’s improving. And for now she most definitely is: Had her second firm poop today, she’s back to sleeping through the night, and I see “Peggy” again when I look in her eyes. Phew. That was by far the worst part, not seeing her in there. That’s when you know they feel really bad. 

Cozy in bed last night:


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Such a relief, and I know exactly what you mean about the vacant, inward looking eyes.

No more Frito binges, Peggy, and bland diet and tummy medicine at the first hint of a funny turn!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> Such a relief, and I know exactly what you mean about the vacant, inward looking eyes.
> 
> No more Frito binges, Peggy, and bland diet and tummy medicine at the first hint of a funny turn!


I was thinking the next time the in-laws visit I might put out a dish of Peggy-safe food. Does that seem like a good idea? They can still have the pleasure of asking for tricks and treating her. I’ll even put the dish on the table with the human food, but it’ll have small bits of carrot, chicken breast, that sort of thing.


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## JasMom (7 mo ago)

I think that’s an excellent idea!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Very good idea. And adjust her meals accordingly. It is so easy for snacks to get out of hand when lots of people get involved.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Oonapup said:


> Very glad to hear that Peggy seems to be on the mend. Your groomer did a nice job too.


Lol! You are sweet, but the groom is not a pretty one.  It was a super quick shave-down of a sick, soaking wet poodle. And our groomer only shaved enough off her feet to inspect for any foxtails.

Current view:










I’ll clean it up slowly. I don’t want to add any stress.


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Lol! You are sweet, but the groom is not a pretty one.  It was a super quick shave-down of a sick, soaking wet poodle. And our groomer only shaved enough off her feet to inspect for any foxtails.
> 
> Current view:
> 
> ...


Her face and top knot and ears look pretty decent though! Plus, Peggy is always very photogenic.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Oonapup said:


> Her face and top knot and ears look pretty decent though! Plus, Peggy is always very photogenic.


I was honestly shocked by how efficiently she did her face! It was amazing. She demonstrated a couple of tricks for me, which, of course, I promptly forgot.

I’ve noticed Peggy isn’t itchy today like she usually is after a groom. I wonder if it was the wet shave?


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## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

Glad Peggy is doing better. Much as I hate the overuse of antibiotics, I've become a huge fan of metronidazole. It has really helped Galen through his bouts of tummy problems.


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)




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## Apricot mini momma (Dec 22, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I was honestly shocked by how efficiently she did her face! It was amazing. She demonstrated a couple of tricks for me, which, of course, I promptly forgot.


you’re forgiven for being forgetful. You were in a state of stress. The last few days are probably a blur altogether. I’m so glad Peggy is coming around.


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## thataway4 (Sep 2, 2020)

Marie and I (and Gigi) have been fallowing your posts. So glad that Peggy is much better. You know that all of us out in Poodle land always feel great empathy when this type of thing happens. It is so concerning and yet you often can not do much to find out what is wrong. (I am an MD by profession--and humans are easier to diagnose!). Our love to Peggy TheParti!


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

So glad to see Peggy being more - Peggy!!!


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## Sylvia K (Feb 4, 2021)

Oh dear, poor Peggy but so glad to see that she's on the mend and feeling much better. I only just spotted this post. It took me back to when Teddy (toy poodle now deceased RIP) got very sick with pancreatitis when we had a lot of visitors at Christmas 2-3 years ago. Most of the guests were dog savvy, but some just didn't realise the harm that so much fatty Christmas food could do to dogs. After several days in the vet hospital and lots of testing, he finally got past the episode but it sure was a wake up call to be very, very vigilant when visitors with food were around. I remember very well the awful sick feeling of seeing poor Teddy in pain and not knowing how to help him. Thank heavens for good veterinary care. And for the love and support of friends including your wonderful groomer. I am praying that Peggy continues to improve and that she remains in good health 🤗🙏. Hugs and virtual bones and snacks from Ernie (miniature poodle) as well. 💓


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Thanks, everyone. You’re all so nice.

Peggy was insatiably hungry tonight. I literally could not get enough kibble into her. She would have been very sick. After hours of restlessness, she finally crashed around 11pm, stretched out on top of me, under a pile of blankets.

I’m trying to understand where this hunger might be coming from. Her stomach was making squishing noises, so perhaps she is confusing tummy upset for hunger? Or perhaps this is just her appetite roaring back after a few days of getting fewer calories than usual.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I wish I had some helpful thoughts for you but this is perplexing. You said the blood work was good. What did they run?

There's a sense of familiarity to her symptoms but I'm not even sure it's one of my own dogs that I'm thinking of.

The first episode sounds almost as if she was suddenly dizzy and then it passed off. The second you described as worse but still similar reactions? She didn't lose consciousness but was weak and disoriented both episodes?

It might be my own mild atypical migraines that I'm thinking of. (I say mild but clinically mild. In life, they can take me down and flatten me, vertigo, nausea, gi symptoms, but rarely headache.) I wonder if dogs can have similar conditions?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Vestibular disease can cause diarrhoea - not the most common symptom of it, but perhaps worth bearing in mind.


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> _“Okay, yes, it was quite solid, but did you really have to announce it to the world?”
> View attachment 496904
> _


That's a look that says ..., "I can't believe me mom tell'd the whole 🌎 I made da poop 💩!"


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## Jilly SummerSunset (Sep 16, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Lol! You are sweet, but the groom is not a pretty one.  It was a super quick shave-down of a sick, soaking wet poodle. And our groomer only shaved enough off her feet to inspect for any foxtails.
> 
> Current view:
> 
> ...


"Ok momma, less pic, more tummy rubs."


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## Dogs4Life (May 27, 2018)

I'm so glad to read that your sweet girl is feeling better.

My Jasper has been having stomach issues this entire week- needing to go out every two hours or so or using the potty pad. It's been a rough work week. He unfortunately eats and licks anything (even when he shouldn't), so he hasn't been minding the bland food diet.


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Thanks, everyone. You’re all so nice.
> 
> Peggy was insatiably hungry tonight. I literally could not get enough kibble into her. She would have been very sick. After hours of restlessness, she finally crashed around 11pm, stretched out on top of me, under a pile of blankets.
> 
> I’m trying to understand where this hunger might be coming from. Her stomach was making squishing noises, so perhaps she is confusing tummy upset for hunger? Or perhaps this is just her appetite roaring back after a few days of getting fewer calories than usual.


If it's anything like mine after a stomach bug, I vote appetite roaring back. Hubby and I have had a few really nasty ones that included an overnight stay at the hospital. The first few days afterwards were miserable.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Rose n Poos said:


> I wish I had some helpful thoughts for you but this is perplexing. You said the blood work was good. What did they run?
> 
> There's a sense of familiarity to her symptoms but I'm not even sure it's one of my own dogs that I'm thinking of.
> 
> ...


My initial thought last night was Addison’s, mostly because of the uncharacteristic restlessness. She’s also down 2 lbs from her highest weight this year.

The blood work listed on our bill was a senior panel. Sounds odd, but probably just the code they select for the most comprehensive option? I was considering requesting a copy of the results.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> Vestibular disease can cause diarrhoea - not the most common symptom of it, but perhaps worth bearing in mind.


Definitely something to consider. I know from personal experience how a neck injury can cause vestibular symptoms.


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## thataway4 (Sep 2, 2020)

I would suggest that you always get the actual lab reports. There may be times down the line when another vet sees her or wants to review the tests. Having the actual data really helps (Same for humans.)


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

The “increased appetite” could also be that she is just plain _obsessed_ with her new Snoop feeder.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

You’ve said she gets frustrated or I would suggest you make it harder. Phoebe’s gets stuffed with a bit of honest kitchen clusters and then gets a piece of chicken jerky pushed up under the lip. She always eventually gets it out, but it keeps her occupied for a good while!


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## lciano (Dec 26, 2019)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I don’t have the energy to go into detail, but yesterday Peggy had a weird episode, that we hoped was just a blip. I described it here: Peggy Pics
> 
> Well, today my husband was 30 minutes away at a work meeting when it happened again except much, much worse. I thought she was dying right in front of me. Within seconds I was on the phone with our vet, 1 hour before they closed, making sure they could see her, while simultaneously texting a friend to see if she could drive 15 minutes from her house to help. By the time she arrived, Peggy was able to stand and we rushed her to the clinic. She was seen right away, but we don’t have any answers yet.
> 
> ...


Keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers! ❤


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

It's such a relief too see Peggy returning to her regular self. Is it too soon to say she's all better?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Her eyes look so much better !


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

I do see Peggy in her eyes again 🥰😍.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Happy'sDad said:


> It's such a relief too see Peggy returning to her regular self. Is it too soon to say she's all better?


I would say we’re close. But things are still a little off.

Yesterday we dealt with some frequent massive poops again, which were progressively softer but never mush. And her evening restlessness/insatiable appetite persists.

Last night, we were trying to watch the new Lord of the Rings series, but had to keep stopping to top up her Farmina kibble plate until finally we cut her off. So then she brought me every toy in her box, one after another, just quietly resting them on my knee and then sitting back politely. That’s Peggy’s “trade” routine.

When she stepped it up and brought me a carefully selected Vermont Country Store catalogue from the newspaper pile, I acknowledged her desperation and gave her a 6” bully stick so she could chew herself to sleep. That did the trick.

Then, this morning, we were going to leave her at home for an hour, but she climbed into my lap and had me cradle her like she was a puppy. My husband ended up going to the farmer’s market solo. I’m a sucker for a feeble pup.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Convalescence is a time of rebuilding - good food, cuddles and taking things slowly. Lovely to see Peggy being Peggy, even if it is still slow and careful Peggy - bouncy, silly Peggy will not be far behind.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> Convalescence is a time of rebuilding - good food, cuddles and taking things slowly. Lovely to see Peggy being Peggy, even if it is still slow and careful Peggy - bouncy, silly Peggy will not be far behind.


Yes, if I think about how slowly we convalesced (and continue to convalesce) from our summer tangle with covid, I’m reminded to ease my expectations a little. I’m sure she feels funny and doesn’t know why.

We also recently retired the crate (bad timing), so she no longer has that dark covered space to retreat for an early bedtime when needed. She may just be overtired and spinning out.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Have you talked to the vet about her insatiable hunger ? It could be a symptom of a few things, surely.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Definitely not out of the woods yet. It’s 8am and Peggy’s just vomited for the third time.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

She’s eating grass now, quite frantically, so I expect there’s more to come.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

And now we lie down again....










It’s been a rough few hours. Hoping she can get some sleep.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Did she have full panel blood tests when she was first unwell? If not that would be top of my Monday morning list, just to be absolutely sure there is nothing major going on. But there are some nasty gastric bugs around here in the UK including an enteric coronavirus that can take a couple of weeks to clear.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

fjm said:


> Did she have full panel blood tests when she was first unwell? If not that would be top of my Monday morning list, just to be absolutely sure there is nothing major going on. But there are some nasty gastric bugs around here in the UK including an enteric coronavirus that can take a couple of weeks to clear.


Yes, full panel. All clear. Stool sample, too. Clear. But I wonder if it’s worth another round of both.

She’s woken up to throw up a few more times, but finally drank some water, which seemed to soothe her throat. My husband just insisted on feeding her a full breakfast, which she is eating with gusto as I type this. (I’d planned on just giving her some plain chicken breast later, but he felt she needed a normal meal because of all the foam and bile she was vomiting.)

I am very torn about continuing the metronidazole, as vomiting is a side effect. She has approx. 5 tablets left.


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

I have read that with a vomiting dog, meals should be withheld for a few hours. Water should be readily available. When my last dog had this issue (a few times in her long life), I did just that. After a while, I fed her a little chicken breast and boiled white rice. That seemed to settle things down.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

SteveS55 said:


> I have read that with a vomiting dog, meals should be withheld for a few hours. Water should be readily available. When my last dog had this issue (a few times in her long life), I did just that. After a while, I fed her a little chicken breast and boiled white rice. That seemed to settle things down.


That was my thinking, too. But for the moment, at least, Peggy’s stomach seems to be settled. My husband is off to get chicken for later while I remain on poodle duty. Not sure she could get any closer...


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## DogtorDoctor (Mar 20, 2020)

I'm so sorry that Peggy seems to have relapsed. 

I can't remember, did your vet send you with any anti-nausea or anti-vomiting medication when y'all got the metronidazole?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

DogtorDoctor said:


> I'm so sorry that Peggy seems to have relapsed.
> 
> I can't remember, did your vet send you with any anti-nausea or anti-vomiting medication when y'all got the metronidazole?


Nope. She gave Peggy a Cerenia injection Monday at the clinic, but she said that was for any painful stomach spasms she might be experiencing. At the time, she was not vomiting.


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## Miki (Dec 25, 2021)

Did your vet do a cPLI test for pancreatitis? Something is still obviously not right with your darling girl .....


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Miki said:


> Did your vet do a cPLI test for pancreatitis? Something is still obviously not right with your darling girl .....


I’m not sure. I assumed whatever bloodwork they did would have ruled that out, but maybe I shouldn’t assume. I’ll ask tomorrow. Thank you!

She’s been asleep for a couple of hours now.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I have had good results with Royal Canine gastrointestinal canned - so much so that I now always keep some in the cupboard.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Four hours later and only one vomit, but frequent lip licking, swallowing, and dry heaving. I completely forgot tomorrow is a holiday, so our vet’s office won’t be open again until Tuesday.


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

Ugh I’m so sorry Peggy still isn’t feeling well 🙁
I feel rather helpless and can only imagine how you must feel. I hope someone has some genius and safe suggestions to offer you. Sending a giant hug to your household. Peggy Sue, I hope you have a restful sleep tonight to reset and recharge you. Your humans, too!


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

I'm sorry, Robin. These are the times when I gather all of Mia's dog beds together and lay down next to her, so at least she knows I'm there.


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## Sylvia K (Feb 4, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I’m not sure. I assumed whatever bloodwork they did would have ruled that out, but maybe I shouldn’t assume. I’ll ask tomorrow. Thank you!
> 
> She’s been asleep for a couple of hours now.
> 
> View attachment 497043


Testing for pancreatitis was my thought as well. When Teddy had this, I had to take him in to the clinic for retesting almost every day as his readings (can't remember the name of what they were testing for) were so high. They kept testing until the numbers came right back down to normal figures again. It took a week or more to get to a safe level. I do hope Peggy recovers very quickly. I can imagine how worried you must be. Hugs and good vibes for Peggy


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I was getting very worried about dehydration, so I did a batch of pastured chicken breasts in the Instant Pot, with six cups of water and a pinch of salt. She took a good, long drink of the broth, but looked a little confused about where the chicken was! That’ll come later with her antibiotic.

We did a short walk of our block and she had noticeably more pep in her step. Fingers crossed the broth stays down.


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I was getting very worried about dehydration, so I did a batch of pastured chicken breasts in the Instant Pot, with six cups of water and a pinch of salt. She took a good, long drink of the broth, but looked a little confused about where the chicken was! That’ll come later with her antibiotic.
> 
> We did a short walk of our block and she had noticeably more pep in her step. Fingers crossed the broth stays down.


You’re a good mom!


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

FYI,
A routine blood test should have some abnormal results if she had pancreatitis. If the abnormal results were present they should have triggered your vet to look into it further. You should still ask, but I wouldn't think this is Peggy's problem.
Heal Peggy, Heal!
🙏💕


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

94Magna_Tom said:


> FYI,
> A routine blood test should have some abnormal results if she had pancreatitis. If the abnormal results were present they should have triggered your vet to look into it further. You should still ask, but I wouldn't think this is Peggy's problem.
> Heal Peggy, Heal!
> 🙏💕


Thank you, Tom. That makes me feel better.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

SteveS55 said:


> You’re a good mom!


Thanks for saying that.  I think the dehydration was affecting her, as she now wants to play and has that Peggy spark back in her eyes.


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## ShamrockPoodle (Jan 22, 2017)

Hoping Peggy feels better soon. It’s tricky knowing what to do when you aren’t sure exactly what it is. Probably good she’s interested in her food at least somewhat. The last mysterious bout my mini had—the extensive test results showed some elevated pancreas enzyme. They wanted me to feed a low fat gi food for awhile and gave her metronozole, cerenia, and probiotic. I gave her several small meals of the food a day. I’m still not really sure what her diagnosis was—the emergency vet was not thrilled about her freeze dried liver treats so we discontinued those. They were magic training treats—but maybe too much for a small poodle . Hope you find something that works🥰.


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## Minie (Oct 4, 2021)

Oh no! Sorry about the setback. Get well soon, Peggy!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Chicken water is so useful - even one or two ice cubes of it in a bowl of plain water will encourage mine to drink. Whatever is at the root of her illness hydration is important, as you already know. Hope she keeps the fluids down and feels better. If even water triggers vomiting I've found waiting a while then giving just one or two laps at a time helps.


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## Getting ready (May 4, 2019)

oh Peggy and family, you‘ve you a tough run. I am hoping this recent bout was the last of it.


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## Benni (Dec 31, 2021)

I am so sorry you are going through all this with Peggy. The not knowing is always so very stressful and I too, as you know, am going through the unknown with my Benni. My thoughts are with you and hoping for a she's better real soon.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Chicken and broth have stayed down.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

Is Peggy watching TCM?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Asta's Mom said:


> Is Peggy watching TCM?


Always


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## Haitch (6 mo ago)

I have been re-reading this , looking at the photos etc , she certainly had a lot of ”treats “ from family , I have no idea about foxtails , but wondered about the lake , a family member came so close to losing a dog after river swimming . Admittedly there were livestock near by . It was a long uphill battle , but it was won , thankfully . 
some dogs have died in this country after swimming in lakes, mainly due to the heat and certain algae that have bloomed rather more than normal because of the heat and drought .
I shall go back to musing , and wishing all health and healing , dogs are so precious x


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## Liz (Oct 2, 2010)

How's Miss Peggy Sue this morning?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Peggy is enjoying her morning sunbeam therapy. 










Yesterday was entirely uneventful, but as I learned on Sunday, that can change in an instant. So our optimism is cautious. She refused home-cooked chicken breast this morning.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Uploading Peggy’s bloodwork, in case anyone sees any patterns or values of concern. Her vet did not request a urine sample and considers these results normal and not warranting further investigation.























Because of Peggy’s lingering symptoms, and also the death of one of her litter mates last fall from ITP (an autoimmune attack on platelets), I’m less inclined to disregard values that are at the high or low end of normal. And I don’t understand that platelet note.


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

I am not a vet. However, my career was spent doing lab research in the field of immunology, and I have a basic understanding of cells in the blood and how they can be measured. My interpretation of the platelet comment is that by visual examination (that is, by smearing a drop of blood on a slide and looking at it under a microscope) a sufficient number (that is, within normal range) of platelets was counted. As for the second sentence in the platelet comment, automated counts using a machine can be very inaccurate if some of the platelets are clumped together. The machine cannot enumerate the number of platelets in a clump. It either disregards the clump because it is larger than the normal size of a single platelet, or it counts the clump as a single platelet.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

I don't see amylase and lipase for pancreatitis, but admit I am far from a blood test expert... Maybe that's an abbreviation somewhere?


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## Footprints&pawmarks (Mar 8, 2021)

Thank you, Kukla. That makes it very clear.


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## DogtorDoctor (Mar 20, 2020)

I agree that her blood work isn't very exciting (which is a good thing!). I'll work from top to bottom.

1) She appears possibly early dehydrated based on her red cell indices (hematocrit high normal).

2) She is LACKING a stress leukogram (pattern of white blood cells). This could mean nothing, but in a poodle who has been sick would prompt me to send out baseline cortisol levels for atypical Addison's.

3) Low to normal platelets can be explained by machine error (as @Kukla the Tpoo elaborated!). Since platelets are made to clot, as soon as the blood hits the needle they clump together. The machine reads all cells based on size, so two platelets stuck together are counted as zero platelets rather than two. A blood smear is then made for platelets to be manually counted, and a subjective grading is given (adequate or decreased).

4) SDMA high normal could be secondary to dehydration, but it is a better indicator of kidney function than BUN and creatinine. I would probably recheck this value in 6 months or so, or whenever Peggy is back to 100%.

5) Her sodium: potassium ratio is normal, which pretty much rules out TYPICAL Addison's. Atypical only has deficiencies in the glucocorticoid (cortisol) and not the mineralocorticoid (aldosterone) that helps regulate these two values.

If Peggy is still feeling poorly, my recommended tests to bring up to your veterinarian would include baseline cortisol for Addison's and cPLI (canine pancreatic lipase immunoreactivity) for pancreatitis (as it seems their normal blood panel doesn't include amylase, which is an... adequate screening value if other testing is not readily available).


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## Miki (Dec 25, 2021)

DogtorDoctor said:


> If Peggy is still feeling poorly, my recommended tests to bring up to your veterinarian would include baseline cortisol for Addison's and cPLI (canine pancreatic lipase immunoreactivity) for pancreatitis (as it seems their normal blood panel doesn't include amylase, which is an... adequate screening value if other testing is not readily available).


IANAV, but having lived with and loved an Addisonian Spoo with extra autoimmune issues I'm hyper vigilant about waxing/waning GI stuff. Sometimes/most times it's just idiopathic diarrhea that's easily treatable with flagyl. But sometimes it doesn't go away and needs more attention and tests to find the treatment sweet spot. The good part is how often it's fixable.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

You’re all amazing. And thank you, @DogtorDoctor for being so generous with your expertise.

Feeling very confused about why a pancreatitis diagnosis wasn’t carefully ruled out when she was experiencing such painful episodes. I even acted out the weird hunched position/attempt to lower herself to the ground, because I thought it might have been a seizure and was unable to get video in time.

Although the symptoms were slightly different (copious, urgent diarrhea rather than obviously debilitating pain), she’s had a similarly unexplained illness in the past, which was preceded by similar dietary indiscretion _and_ possible exposure to chemical pesticides.

_Just like this time._

I’m reading now that pesticides can actually trigger pancreatitis in dogs!

We’ve just come to the end of a second “good” day in a row, so I hope she’s out of the woods. But as I understand it, pancreatitis can cause long-term damage. I just have a feeling I’ll be dismissed as hysterical if I bring up my concerns.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Follow your instincts and insist on the tests once she is rather better. You know Peggy far better than your vet does, and you know when something is just not right. And you will be the one paying for the tests, after all!


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Feeling very confused about why a pancreatitis diagnosis wasn’t carefully ruled out when she was experiencing such painful episodes. I even acted out the weird hunched position/attempt to lower herself to the ground, because I thought it might have been a seizure and was unable to get video in time.
> 
> Although the symptoms were slightly different (copious, urgent diarrhea rather than obviously debilitating pain), she’s had a similarly unexplained illness in the past, which was preceded by similar dietary indiscretion _and_ possible exposure to chemical pesticides.
> 
> ...


That's weird it wasn't ruled out especially if you mentioned the dietary indiscretion.

An herbicide possibly triggered Annie's pancreatitis/Addison's/elevated liver enzymes/current need for digestive enzymes. Ever since that first incident, she's not been 'quite right ' and has needed some careful management.

I don't think it's hysterical to want to know why your dog was sick for over a week. Annie not improving and still being 'dull eyed'/lethargic/weird digestion after her second major bout of pancreatititis and leaving the emergency vet is what caused me to go to my regular vet and eventually get an Addison's diagnosis.

(Also if it WAS pancreatitis - ouch! Poor Peggy. Mom had it, and needed an incredible amount of IV pain meds to function. Annie also definitely needed a lot of pain management to feel ok)


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## BennieJets (Oct 10, 2021)

I have sort of a weird question... and please, don’t feel you have to actually answer it. I’m just going to ask as food for thought and you can take it or leave it...

...But do you think you’d be concerned about being viewed as hysterical if you were a (hetero, white) man asking for further testing on his dog? I know I sometimes have similar concerns myself. Particularly with the medical system. And I’m just now learning to ask myself “Is this also internalized sexism?”

We live in a society of a ton of problematic systems that go unchecked because we just take them to be “as it is.” You advocating for your loved ones or self isn’t hysteria.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Thinking back, you always say that you give single ingredient treats because she does better with them. You give one specific canned food because she does better with it. It does sound like she has a sensitive gut and that would make her more prone to issues like pancreatitis.

And to Bennie’s point-that’s exactly how I shift my thinking when I start to worry that I’m overreacting or causing a problem. Do not be afraid of making others uncomfortable when seeking answers. I believe you can be direct without being rude or hysterical.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

I’m glad to hear Peggy has had a couple of good days now. Hope and pray that Peggy continues to feel better. I also really hope you will be able to get the answers you need. So frustrating to not know.


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## DogtorDoctor (Mar 20, 2020)

I do not think that requesting further testing would be in anyway uncalled for. While sometimes a bout of gastroenteritis is just gastroenteritis, without testing to know if this is an Addisonian or pancreatitis flare, we are unable to better prevent future episodes from occurring in the future.

And if you're right, and this is pancreatitis caused by pesticide exposure, there are diet recommendations and other husbandry changes to consider. Dogs can also get chronic pancreatitis, so there's yet another consideration.

I find what @BennieJets said extremely powerful. Remember, your whole PF family has your back.


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## JasMom (7 mo ago)

I want to share this to hopefully empower you to do what you feel _you_ need to, PtP. I am a quiet, generally non-confrontational person and was accused of being hysterical (in not so many words) back in April by a vet and my husband. One of our Greyhounds was not himself. He wouldn't accept a treat. His eye was watery and he shied away from me wiping the eye to see if there was something wrong. It was a Tuesday at 8pm so the only option was the emergency vet. My fear was a head injury. The ER vet dismissed us after a very brief exam and recommended giving him Benadryl for allergies. We couldn't administer medicine by mouth because he was refusing all food and water by that time.

Next day, he had swelling on top of his head and around his eye. Our regular vet (love her) suggested injections for pain, allergies, and antibiotics since he was reluctant to eat and seemed painful in his mouth. I requested a full blood work up and x-rays. When that didn't reveal anything and the swelling returned after the meds wore off, I requested a referral to an internal medicine specialist. She was going to send us to the ER clinic I had previously been to because they were closer. I told her I wasn't comfortable going back there because they didn't listen to my concerns. She sent me to a clinic that is over an hour away. They performed a scan which revealed a foreign object. Exploratory surgery found a piece of grass had, we presume, migrated through his eye into his head. It had created a massive abscess. 

Being a hysterical woman quite possibly saved his life.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Oof. Powerful words from my Poodle Forum friends, and I’m processing them all. Thank you. This community is amazing. 

@BennieJets, you really did nail the source of that sabotaging inner voice. I’ve battled chronic illness my whole life—undiagnosed for decades—and my “hysterical female” medical experiences have traumatized me in ways not many can understand let alone articulate so succinctly.


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## Jh poodle joy (7 mo ago)

You already know the support you have but I would like to echo..... Having had a similar experience with an emergency "specialist" vet as per @JasMom, I am always aware of what my lovely regular vet always says....."you ARE the expert in your dog and it's my job to work with you".

As long as what you're asking isn't going to cause Peggy any undue distress (I don't think for one moment you would do that) you are paying, and by exploring all of the options you will have peace of mind and/or be prepared. Whats not to like?


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

JasMom said:


> I want to share this to hopefully empower you to do what you feel _you_ need to, PtP. I am a quiet, generally non-confrontational person and was accused of being hysterical (in not so many words) back in April by a vet and my husband. One of our Greyhounds was not himself. He wouldn't accept a treat. His eye was watery and he shied away from me wiping the eye to see if there was something wrong. It was a Tuesday at 8pm so the only option was the emergency vet. My fear was a head injury. The ER vet dismissed us after a very brief exam and recommended ......
> 
> She sent me to a clinic that is over an hour away. They performed a scan which revealed a foreign object. Exploratory surgery found a piece of grass had, we presume, migrated through his eye into his head. It had created a massive abscess.
> 
> ...


Wow, that is the weirdest sort of problem I have ever heard of. Thank you thank you for insisting. A perfect example of we know our dogs best.


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## JasMom (7 mo ago)

Our regular ver and internal specialist had been preparing us for the worst possible outcome of cancer because the situation was so strange. We had even discussed not waking him up from the exploratory surgery if that was the verdict he already barely ate and drank only enough to keep going. We had spent the weekend doing bucket list activities because none of us were sure what they would find.
But thankfully our wild boy got a second chance!


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

BennieJets said:


> I have sort of a weird question... and please, don’t feel you have to actually answer it. I’m just going to ask as food for thought and you can take it or leave it...
> 
> ...But do you think you’d be concerned about being viewed as hysterical if you were a (hetero, white) man asking for further testing on his dog? I know I sometimes have similar concerns myself. Particularly with the medical system. And I’m just now learning to ask myself “Is this also internalized sexism?”
> 
> We live in a society of a ton of problematic systems that go unchecked because we just take them to be “as it is.” You advocating for your loved ones or self isn’t hysteria.


Seconding this. I've dealt with unconscious prejudice against loved ones before. Senior female relative with broken bones that went undiagnosed/treated for a month because they were considered "hysterical" by the doc. Not much they could do by the time the doc bothered to look.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

PhoebeDuck said:


> Seconding this. I've dealt with unconscious prejudice against loved ones before. Senior female relative with broken bones that went undiagnosed/treated for a month because they were considered "hysterical" by the doc. Not much they could do by the time the doc bothered to look.


 This began for me in childhood. By a year old, I was frequently sick and labelled “sensitive.” At 7 I broke my wrist and it went untreated for days. Later it was frequent dislocations that I was encouraged to “push through.” And so much other stuff in between. I will do my best to not let this cumulative trauma interfere with my care of Peggy.

An update: Today saw a return of weird poop. For two days before that, she was sneezing frequently and forcefully, but that seems to have resolved. None of it’s really adding up anymore, so I’m just focusing on her overall demeanor, which is happy and appropriately energetic. I requested her pre-spay blood work to have on hand as a baseline, but it’s not very detailed.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Could Peggy have Covid-19? Is there a test for that for dogs?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Starla said:


> Could Peggy have Covid-19? Is there a test for that for dogs?


My husband and I both had covid in July, and Peggy actually did seem vaguely ill for two days. She vomited once and had a runny nose. But then she was quickly back to normal. (Thank goodness, because we were both too sick to do much.)


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

PeggyTheParti said:


> This began for me in childhood. By a year old, I was frequently sick and labelled “sensitive.” At 7 I broke my wrist and it went untreated for days. Later it was frequent dislocations that I was encouraged to “push through.” And so much other stuff in between. I will do my best to not let this cumulative trauma interfere with my care of Peggy.
> 
> An update: Today saw a return of weird poop. For two days before that, she was sneezing frequently and forcefully, but that seems to have resolved. None of it’s really adding up anymore, so I’m just focusing on her overall demeanor, which is happy and appropriately energetic. I requested her pre-spay blood work to have on hand as a baseline, but it’s not very detailed.
> 
> View attachment 497259


Just as a reminder, while all of us are concerned, none of us are the ones paying for the testing, or dealing with a sick pup. In the end, if you say "enough" ... And you no longer want to push this, you are well within your rights to do so. It could be a passing thing, it could be a long term thing that so far isn't diagnosed and should be. But I just wanted to remind you that the final decision of pushing or not pushing is yours. We'll be thinking of you and hoping for the best for Ms P regardless of what you decide.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

PhoebeDuck said:


> Just as a reminder, while all of us are concerned, none of us are the ones paying for the testing, or dealing with a sick pup. In the end, if you say "enough" ... And you no longer want to push this, you are well within your rights to do so. It could be a passing thing, it could be a long term thing that so far isn't diagnosed and should be. But I just wanted to remind you that the final decision of pushing or not pushing is yours. We'll be thinking of you and hoping for the best for Ms P regardless of what you decide.


Thanks for the important reminder, not only for me but for anyone reading this. I definitely err on the conservative side when it comes to veterinary testing and care, and that’s a conscious choice. When they wanted her to spend the day there for testing, because they didn’t have the time or staff available to offer her an appointment slot, I said no. I felt the experience would be unnecessarily traumatic.

But...I’m arming myself with knowledge for the next flare-up. Should one occur, I will be prepared to ask for specific tests and also to decline the Cerenia, which I think had horrible side effects, which obscured her condition. I will also be asking for detailed blood work at her next check-up.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

(Oh, and no more junk food free-for-alls, no matter how much pleasure they may bring Peggy or visiting humans in the moment.)


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## JasMom (7 mo ago)

Absolutely! It’s important to do what feels right for you and Peggy. If pushing for more tests isn’t right, it isn’t right. I wanted to share my story of pushing for more because I knew what had been done wasn’t enough. That’s not always the case and in the end, we each know our own dogs better than anyone else. ❤❤


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## SteveS55 (7 mo ago)

My mother used to say "Don't borrow trouble!" So, I don't.


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## PhoebeDuck (6 mo ago)

I only mentioned it because my perspective is... skewed... when it comes to medical things. There is a balancing act between "not enough" and "too much." And it can be easy to let past trauma or fears for the future cloud your decisions now. I just wanted to remind you to take a breath before you plan out your next steps.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Thanks, @PhoebeDuck. My concerns about being labelled “hysterical” were around a very specific thing: asking Peggy’s vet why she didn’t do any pancreatitis testing, which seems like it was absolutely warranted.

However, since the pain episodes have not recurred (knock on wood), I’m not going to raise that issue just yet, as I don’t wish to subject Peggy to more blood work so soon. But everyone’s reassurances have given me the confidence to speak up if/when it’s time.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Life has pretty much returned to normal, but the frequent sneezing, which began September 7th-ish, evolved into occasional sneezing but frequent scratching, paw-licking misery. I haven’t seen Peggy itchy like this since she was a puppy.

Nothing has changed in her diet. No new products in the home. The weather has cooled slightly, but no rain or strong winds.

Can anyone think of anything I’m missing? The timing makes it seem like it’s linked to her unexplained GI distress, but perhaps just a coincidence? Could the antibiotics be to blame? I’ve been reading today about how a human stomach virus can trigger food allergies. That seems like a possibility.

If I were to bring this up with our vet, she’d either say it’s nothing or prescribe an antihistamine. I’d really like to get to the bottom of it. Wondering if anyone has witnessed a similar evolution of symptoms in their own poodle.


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## Oonapup (Oct 16, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Life has pretty much returned to normal, but the frequent sneezing, which began September 7th-ish, evolved into occasional sneezing but frequent scratching, paw-licking misery. I haven’t seen Peggy itchy like this since she was a puppy.
> 
> Nothing has changed in her diet. No new products in the home. The weather has cooled slightly, but no rain or strong winds.
> 
> ...


We're on the other side of the continent, but a lot of humans I know are having bad fall allergies right now.


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## Happy'sDad (Jul 4, 2020)

PeggyTheParti said:


> paw-licking misery


If you remember my Paw licking post, Happy was also experiencing this very thing. Happy's condition resolved itself after two weeks. While I had my guesses as to the cause, I never figured it out. My though is it was something in the environment which is now gone. I hope Peggy's symptoms resolve as quickly and easily as happy's.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Thank you Dogfordoctor and Kukla for the professional and scientific expertise! In a situation like this I have no idea what additional tests are needed or what values raise concerns. It sounds like Miss Peggy is on the mend. Paw licking may be self soothing behavior or a sign of allergies if they continue to present. There is no such thing as a hysterical pet owner when you know something is of with your companion. Best wishes for continued improvement.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

Not sure what things are like where you are but here in the Midwest fall allergies are quite bad this time of the year. Joey’s eyes got watery and gunky. After using the drops the vet prescribed they are much better. Bobby has terrible fall allergies and will lick and chew his paws and lower legs until he gets hot spots without medication. He gets a shot which totally stops the itching. Thank goodness!

We didn’t formally test him but after three autumns of this I know it’s fall allergies. During the first year I thought it better to rule that out first before I started messing with his diet since it’s so common for dogs to have allergies this time of year. After allergy season was over no problems. It only affects him for a few weeks in the fall. It could be something else for Peggy, of course, but I’m wondering if addressing environmental allergies would be the easiest place to start. I think you would know fairly quickly if it’s environmental or not. You could start by wiping her down after being outside. You could limit her exposure to grasses and such. It sounds like you don’t want to do antihistamines but that possibly could help you figure things out. I check the grass and pollen count to, which is helpful. Grass is a big one for dogs this time of year. Ragweed is a big problem here too.
Could you ask the vet if they are seeing a lot of allergies in dogs? If a lot of dogs are suffering from allergies that would increase the likelihood that Peggy possibly could be too.

Wishing you the best! Itchy paws are no fun!😔


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## Kukla the Tpoo (11 mo ago)

It could be that Peggy has developed an allergy to something that used to never bother her.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

If you suspect environmental allergies, you could try Cytopoint injections to see if they help. They are usually given every 4-6 weeks.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

One of my kids gets a rash every time he gets any viral infection. Viral infection, wait a week, he will get an itchy rash. Usually it’s on his back. This time it was on his face. I encourage him to eat yogurt and kimchi to rebalance his good bacteria. 🤷‍♀️ I would suspect that it is all related.


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## ShamrockPoodle (Jan 22, 2017)

My poodles have been super itchy lately—especially feet—which is usually not a problem. They are not prone to much eye goop—except for early fall when they have a larger amount upon waking in the morning. Like you mentioned—nothing has changed. I’m supposing some tiny mite or odd seasonal weed in the back yard. I’ve noticed that our pesky summer bugs are frantically making nests —a signaling of cooler weather. Our normal sauna like weather has gotten a bit drier. Im watching to see—so far the itching hasn’t affected the skin too much.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I have a question for you, are you sure nothing has changed?
Being super sensitive to chemicals, and having to peel fruits and vegetables prior to eating because of cross contamination, I have to religiously read ingredients.

Weird things happen, not everything is listed.
My Flower used to have a severe reaction to blade lube, she'd quickly break out into a plaque rash, had to quickly wah her to get it to stop. Now I don't use Kool lube, and waiting until I am some and have cleaned my clipper to oil them.
Pia has strange reactions to most kibble, raw and fresh foods. Ranging from liquid diarrhea, soft stools, belly pain, belching, vomiting she was miserable, the ingredients could be the same across brands but only one has not caused GI distress. Pia has food intolerances. Actual food allergies are rare. 
Pia eats Health Extensions White fish and Buffalo. Her treats are fish, venison, yak cheese.
Pia also environmental allergies, she used to chew herself non stop, Apoquel helped that.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Thank you, everyone! This community is really the best. Happy to say Peggy’s scratching has stopped and she seems 100% back to her old healthy self.



twyla said:


> I have a question for you, are you sure nothing has changed?
> Being super sensitive to chemicals, and having to peel fruits and vegetables prior to eating because of cross contamination, I have to religiously read ingredients.
> 
> Weird things happen, not everything is listed.
> ...


I have similar sensitivities, @twyla. I often feel like the canary in the coal mine, trying to navigate this world. And it’s gotten even harder since losing my sense of smell to covid. I still react to fragrance, but have no idea what the trigger is.

For Peggy, I jot down a quick note each time we open a new bag of food. That way I can connect the dots if ever she should have a bad reaction. I don’t trust even the best dog food manufacturers.

Based on the responses here, and the fact my little Gracie used to get bad allergies in the fall, I’m leaning toward a pollen or spore. Neighbors have reported recently brutal allergies, too. I’m just surprised I’ve not been affected myself.


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Has your sense of smell returned at all? That's a significant loss. Praying it returns in time🙏.


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