# Annie's Canine Loaves - Adventures with Homecooked



## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

There have been a lot of us musing lately about trying homecooked dog food for various reasons. 

I've had questions too, like how long would it take to make? how much work would it be? how big is a serving? how much can I make at a time? what equipment do I need? Will my dog pick out the meat and leave the rice?

I thought I'd share my experiment in case it helps anyone.
*
Why am I trying it?*

After Annie's bout with acute pancreatitis, I have been slowly transitioned Annie to a 12% fat kibble from the bland diet she has been eating. She has been appearing to get worse since fully switching back to kibble. I have an appointment for more blood tests for her in a few weeks but this makes me suspect chronic pancreatitis.

Vet said for kibble to look for 6-12% fat by dry matter basis 'with 12% at the very high end'. 12% kibble was the best I could find and I really don't want to keep her on a diet of Ensure fortified beef and rice and oatmeal! I suspect she needs less fat.

I cooked some low fat homemade dog food, using an online calculator for nutrient balance.

*What did I do*
_*Nutrition*_
8.1% fat by dry matter basis (may be less since I used default values for the pork cut I used, and then sliced off most visible fat from the pork and kidneys), 52% carbs, 5% fiber, 3.2% ash.

Recipe is balanced to NRC standards except it's a bit short on iron and linoleic acid and quite short on iodide. I will tweak the recipe to fix the iron for the future. I learned that iodine in foods tends not to be included in food databases, and iodine deficiency is rare in dogs, so am really not sure if I need to supplement

I used this calculator to figure out something balanced and nutrient levels : Raw Fed and Nerdy Formulation Sheet | Raw Fed and Nerdy

*Ingredients*
_Proteins_ - Pork loin, beef kidney, ground turkey, eggs, beef liver,canned oyster, (mixed sources to meet various vitamin, mineral, fat, and amino acid requirements with low meat content to avoid excess fat/protein).
_Starches -_ Rice, potato, oatmeal, (mixed for same reason)
_Vegetables - _Spinach, butternut squash - not strictly necessary, but not harmful.
_Supplements - _Calcium (eggshells), fish oil, vitamin e, vitamin d3, salt (for iodine, not enough to make sodium levels go crazy). Makes up for the things I couldn't balance with these restrictions.

7 loaf pans = 7 days of food for an active 58 lb spoo. 

_*Tools/equipment/supplies:*_

7 loaf pans + 2 sheet pans to hold them
Instant pot (could use a big pot on the stove, but would have required me multitasking)
Microwave for thawing frozen ingredients
Oven
Kitchen scale.
Various spatulas/spoons
Sharp chefs knife, big cutting board.
Smaller clean cutting board and knife for chopping supplements.
Large metal bowl
Meat thermometer

*Process*
I deliberately put most things in the calculator in whole package sizes. Only the starches needed to be weighed. I used prechopped frozen spinach and squash which saved time. Aprox 1 hr active prep time spread out over a few stages, 2 hours of inactive cook time.

I weighed out and chopped the potatoes, and weighed and rinsed the rice (reduces arsenic), and put both in the instant pot with the oatmeal and enough water to cook. 

As the starches cooked, i chopped the meat, veggies, and supplements. Meat was half thawed not frozen or fully thawed to make chopping easy. Mixed the meat, eggs, veggies, and supplements well, cleaned the kitchen and sat on the couch while waiting for the starches to finish cooking. 

I portioned everything into loaf pans and mixed lightly with a spoon, then added some extra water. I baked at 325 F until they reached the temperature for pork (160F). The idea was I wanted to cook the starches very well to make them very digestable, but minimize how long the veggies and meat were cooked to avoid nutrient loss, and bring it all to the safe "cooked" temperature since I'm immunocompromised.

After cooking, I put into bags and froze.

*Pictures*
Prepping :












Cooked - sheen at the top is because I added in extra water prior to cooking that didn't all get absorbed.









*Thoughts and Conclusions*
When the loaves came out of the oven my mom was hungry and stole a piece of pork, and told me to use calcium carbonate instead of eggshell next time so humans can eat it too. Her verdict was it's pretty tasty for dog food. I cooked my apparently ravenous mother some salmon fish cakes which stopped her from snacking on any more dog food. Annie and Trixie also said it is delicious.

I plan to feed half kibble and half home cooked for a while longer, so half a loaf pan per day, so this is about 2 weeks worth of food. Annie was fine on half bland/half kibble so hopefully this will be fine, too.

Overall far less work than my previous attempt at making homecooked food which included a meat grinder and a blender. I'd need bigger equipment/more time to process more than this at a time, this pretty much maxed out the size of my cooking equipment. I may make 2-3 batches of the meat mixture at a time, freeze the excess, and then cook more starches and combine and bake later to save time. 

I will adjust the recipe next time with greater access to ingredients (drive to the city) to fix the current gaps and potentially make it simpler.

Cost worked out to be more than regular kibble, less than specialty gastro food and significantly less than canned! 

Now - here's to hoping it settles Annie's stomach! Preliminary results are positive.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Congratulations!! Btw, I discovered last year that cooked oatmeal freezes beautifully. I portion using an ice cream scooper, then freeze. No idea if this might be useful for you, just thought to offer it since I'm having some this very minute 😋.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

My dog does well with poultry so I buy already cooked turkey breast …. No skin, fat or bones to trim… just meat. I prefer Costco, the Sam’s Club turkey breast had added spices I didn’t want. I’m no longer cooking meat. For my tpoo I used to roast chicken and spent a lot of time separating the lean meat. 

I use potato and old fashioned oatmeal (old fashion oatmeal is steamed cooked before flatten into old fashion) my original recipe used rice but I find it’s easier to cook potatoes in the microwave or Instantpot and the oatmeal is added as is. I noticed my dogs didn’t digest the rice…I would see the grains in their poop. 

I use frozen spinach thawed but recently tried dried parsley flakes. 

I do mix the ingredients in a food processor and use zip lock freezer bags and store in the freezer so I can make several batches when I have time. I cut the meat and veggies into large chunks to save time and wear and tear on me and let the food processor do most of the work. 

When you get a recipe that’s working health wise and taste wise you can look for shortcuts to simplify.


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## Spottytoes (Jul 28, 2020)

I’m still in the being overwhelmed stage. Looks great!


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Streetwise- I am weird. I eat my oatmeal uncooked most of the time! Just mixed with yoghurt. Good to know it freezes well though.

Skylar- I am quite jealous of your pre-cooked turkey, Turkey is $1.25/lb for a whole bird at Christmas and Thanksgiving, but ground turkey off season was $5.99/lb and the other cuts of turkey were even more expensive  Meat feels like a luxury item these days. I can't imagine what precooked would cost for feeding a spoo, and anything of that type I have seen on shelves here is always loaded with salt. 



Spottytoes said:


> I’m still in the being overwhelmed stage. Looks great!


There is a ton to learn, isn't there? I found these websites super helpful:









Cooking for Dogs | A Guide by Feed Thy Dog


A guide covering cooking for dogs and how considerations vary from a raw diet. Cooked food yield calculator, supplementing, using foods, cooking methods, cookware, and more.




feedthydog.com




Learn to Raw Feed Correctly | Raw Fed and Nerdy 








Formulation Guide for Dogs - Better Cells


NEW! Canine Diet Formulation Course Interested in a more in-depth course on formulation? This new course delves into setting formulation goals, how to build recipes to maximize nutritients. This includes 6 formulation examples for raw, cooked, senior, low-calorie and pack recipes. This course is...




bettercellsnutrition.com






DogAware.com: Health Problems in Dogs



Honestly, I just googled 'sources of x in raw dog food' for anything I was missing - there is a lot more info out there for raw food than for homecooked. 

I keep reminding myself if I am willing to rotate a bit based on what is available, there will be some balance over time of things that may be low so it doesn't have to be 100% perfect. 30 years ago my mom fed a dog with pancreatitis on just turkey, rice, and carrots with a bit of calcium powder! He thrived for years!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Streetwise- I am weird. I eat my oatmeal uncooked most of the time! Just mixed with yoghurt. Good to know it freezes well though.


Me, too!


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Me, too!


Y'all aren't weird. I have some pre-existings that make cooked work much better. Raw it's muesli, right? Also I'm a texture person, and cooked either rolled whole (never instant) or Irish style suit my own weirdness well 😊.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

I love it..What your doing is putting the love in every bite.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

For Want of Poodle said:


> Skylar- I am quite jealous of your pre-cooked turkey, Turkey is $1.25/lb for a whole bird at Christmas and Thanksgiving, but ground turkey off season was $5.99/lb and the other cuts of turkey were even more expensive  Meat feels like a luxury item these days. I can't imagine what precooked would cost for feeding a spoo, and anything of that type I have seen on shelves here is always loaded with salt.


It is expensive, for a minipoo I’m spending $2 a day just on the turkey. I’ve home cooked for a long time. I started with my tpoo who got pancreatitis before there were vet prescription foods and home cooking was my only choice. I recognize it’s a lot of work and a serious commitment to home cook for the life of a dog …. Which is why looking for shortcuts was important to me. The time I save not cooking and separating the low fat meat is worth paying more for just the breast meat that I need. 

I used to buy several frozen turkeys on sale at thanksgiving to cook for my tpoo. A big turkey lasted a long time feeding a tpoo. 

My understanding is all raw poultry bought in the grocery store is salt brined so it absorbs more water making it more expensive; that price you pay for meat also includes the additional water absorbed from the brine bath. It also makes for a juicy chicken when cooked. I had looked for unsalted, brine free chicken but couldn’t find any in the local grocery stores. 

I have often wondered what my “dog food” tastes like. I make it with all human grade foods but there’s this taboo thing in my head which says “it’s dog food, don’t eat it” that I can’t overcome. You’re lucky your mom did a taste taste for Annie.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

I can definitely see how the time savings would be worth it. I have already looked into buying some lean organ meats like beef lung and beef heart from a local raw food place and the idea of having to thaw, seperate, portion, and refreeze, plus the freezer space isn't worth the small cost savings by the time you add tax (pet food is taxed, human food is not). Easier to buy grocery store offal fresh and safe that step.

You are correct about the brining or water pumping process used for commercial meats -if I recall in Canada they have to list if it has added salt, not if it is just water, so most fresh items just have water added. This may be different in the US. Stuff bought in store-wrapped trays that is cut in-house tends to have less % water than meat in a package that was sealed in a packing house and especially less than anything in cryrovaced packaging. . Anything meant to be sold frozen like those rubbery chicken breasts I sometimes buy or many of the frozen turkeys are usually salt brine pumped, and labelled in tiny print. I believe there are standards for max amount of brine/water by weight they are allowed to sell.

For cost savings if I do this long term I suspect Annie will get pork much of the time, beef if it is really on sale, and turkey if I can buy them on sale at Christmas and at Thanksgiving.

Apparently when mom cooked for her Yorkie they often shared a meal! Rice and turkey and veggies for both, more meat for the dog as a percentage, and calcium carbonate on the dogs portion. I have to admit I have the same taboo about eating dog food.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I used to share meals with my rats. I’d love to eventually at least partially home cook for Peggy, so will be following your journey with interest. Thanks for being so generous with the details.


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## LoveMyRedToyPoodle (Sep 15, 2019)

Looks like you're doing a great job! Congratulations for taking the plunge into homecooking for your poodle. I home cook 90% of my toy poodle's meals (I give him Ziwi Peak air dried food for the other 10%). One thing that made it easier for me was to buy the eggshell already ground into a fine powder instead of baking and smashing the shells myself. I really like this eggshell powder (Egghsellent Calcium), and it's been a huge timesaver for me:



https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwiwo_b3iNXxAhWUusgKHRdRBaAYABANGgJxdQ&ae=2&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESQOD2M2DgNuNAkYm26iOsjmxO9VLi-7_Dtir-F78U1t-0bEzSQHA4ye_qjDxsvVorwbQy1IiEeKxMUIXdMwy-mPw&sig=AOD64_2M7aVlpmRkXUtV4ZgX8ZEAa9XKiA&q&adurl&ved=2ahUKEwjG9uv3iNXxAhUbMVkFHdYBAWMQ0Qx6BAgCEAE&dct=1


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I use an old, clean coffee grinder for eggshells. I wash the shells as soon as I crack open the eggs, put them to dry, and when they are thoroughly dry roughly squash thenm so that they take up less space. Grinding and sieving then happens every few months.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

An update - I really think it's a major success. Stool quality is better but more than that, Annie is better. 

For the last few days, Annie has been really impressing me with her joie de vivre and the spark that is back. It's not just back to pre-acute pancreatitis levels, it's back to I-dont-know-how-long-it-has-been-since-Annie-was-this-happy levels.

I am so thrilled that I decided to try home cooking lower fat food, I am definitely attributing this change to the food.

I had been missing owning a crazy silly adolescent dog since she turned 2, maybe 1.5. i had thought she was really changing into her adult self, far more sedate and nap loving, medium energy, less drive, less desire to work and train. Easier to live with but less silly fun.

I think she must have had chronic pancreatitis for a while, possibly since the pesticide induced pancreatitis incident that she had at 1.5.

These last few days, I have my crazy girl back. Better behaved and with more self control than at 1.5, but at 2.5, my high energy, ball loving, bouncy pouncy go-go-go poodle is back. I have been having a blast with training again - training is play again; it had become sometimes boring. She wants to play games with me and her stamina and enthusiasm have increased remarkably. 

Best anecdote so far to show how much she has changed:
A few months ago I saw a video where someone demonstrated a flip finish where the dog literally leaps and spins midair from front to heel position. Looked so cool! I thought 'Annie would never have the drive to learn to do that'. Last night, she saw a chipmunk that she chased up a tree then it proceeded to hang out on a low branch and chirp at her. I was trying to regain her attention by playing with her ball and asking for obedience behaviours. I asked her to go from front to heel position, and she spontaneously volunteered that midair leap from front to side. I don't know that I WANT her to do that style of finish, but suddenly, it's possible. I think that basically summarizes the change in enthusiasm levels I am seeing.

Needless to say, I am feeling guilty about not catching this sooner!


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## 94Magna_Tom (Feb 23, 2021)

Wow! That's great news! So glad your baby is feeling better!

ps: On a side note, can you broaden a little bit on the pesticide poisoning incident? Was it from a freshly treated lawn, or was it more direct (like she ate some poison)? I never know how worried I should be on those treated lawns. Maybe in another thread. Thanks.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

94Magna_Tom said:


> Wow! That's great news! So glad your baby is feeling better!
> 
> ps: On a side note, can you broaden a little bit on the pesticide poisoning incident? Was it from a freshly treated lawn, or was it more direct (like she ate some poison)? I never know how worried I should be on those treated lawns. Maybe in another thread. Thanks.


It was a lawn that had been treated a day or two before, but we were playing fetch with her ball on it, so her ball was rolling on it and she was running on the lawn. I threw it a few times while walking to a soccer field to play, and then, 20 min later while playing fetch on the soccer field she began throwing up. It was a herbicide, not a pesticide (I mix the terms up). It was dark out and the sign wasn't in the middle of the lawn,it was hidden in some bushes. 

I would be very very careful with any sort of lawn or garden chemicals. I know another dog who almost died from rat poisoning.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I’m so glad Annie is doing great. It makes the home cooking effort worth while.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

I thought I'd update this with process improvements. 

Annie is still doing well on home cooked food. She definitely seems to need both the home cooked, and the prednisone. Our vet okayed my recipe but would prefer I try to source beef or turkey instead of pork when possible.

Each batch is a bit different to account for what I have in the house - with the calculator, I am comfortable doing this and can figure it out to get the right calories and nutrients with different foods. Buying specific vegetables when my vegetable garden is in full swing feels silly, what meat is on sale and cheap changes, and Annie's food is a good way to use up freezer burnt meat. 

I try to have a small amount of one purple veggie or fruit (beets), one orange veggie (squash or carrot) and a mix of green veggies (presently beans, peas, beet greens, turnip greens, bok choy, zucchini...). These aren't strictly necessary but are potentially beneficial, and it's not like I'm short on veggies at the moment. I imagine variety is good and it makes me happy. 

_*Scaling it up*_: 
I purchased a heavy duty meat grinder at a garage sale, and can grind and mix 3 batches (6 weeks worth) of meat-eggs- supplements at a time, then freeze in plastic bags. Hard supplements are chopped into a fine powder prior to mixing (Vitamin D3, zinc), soft gels for fish oil and Vitamin E just squirt out in the grinder. If I bought a bigger mixing bowl, I could do more batches of meat at a time (I am actively looking for a larger mixing bowl). The time consuming steps are set up, measuring/weighing, prep, and cleanup, not grinding the meat. 

When I need to cook a batch, all I need to do is put the starches in my pressure cooker with lots of water to make a digestible gruel, chop veggies and thaw a bag of meat while the starches cook, then portion it all into loaf pans and bake. The egg meat mix is liquidy and can be divided by volume. 2 weeks worth almost fills the oven. I cool, cut into meal sized pieces, then freeze all but 2 days worth.

My production bottlenecks are the size of my pressure cooker, size of my mixing bowl, available pans, and the size of my oven. I might be able to do 3 weeks at a time if I bought a few more loaf pans and cooked the potatoes in the microwave. It's a lot of work in cleanup and prep, so the more I can batch cook, the better. I would love to just cook once a month. 









Kidney and liver, pork, trimmed pork fat, leftover turkey, supplements - prepping for grinding. 

Trimmed pork fat is being saved to grind with liver to make Liver Pate for the humans. Mmmmm.... homemade liver pate with toast and fresh garden cucumbers has to be one of the world's best summer meals. 

I also want to figure out how to make a low fat canned pate alternative for Annie... She is going through a $5 can each week for her pills.


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## Starla (Nov 5, 2020)

Do you have a restaurant supply store nearby? People don’t think to go there and they have great bowls and pans for less than you can get them elsewhere! Think restaurant sized mixing bowls.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Have you tried plain meat for the pills? I use chicken breast, but turkey would work just as well. I simmer them in water, chop into small chunks, then spread them on a silicone sheet on a tray to freeze. Once hard they get bagged up, and I add a few chunks to each portion of Poppy’s food when freezing it, at one end of the container. One container gets defrosted each day, and it’s easy to pull off a scrap to wrap around the tablets when they are due.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Like fjm I use a small strip of chicken or turkey to wrap around a pill. I cut poultry into narrow strips. I bag and freeze mine too. They make great train treats. I try to defrost a day ahead.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Starla said:


> Do you have a restaurant supply store nearby? People don’t think to go there and they have great bowls and pans for less than you can get them elsewhere! Think restaurant sized mixing bowls.


I don't have one nearby but that is what I am thinking of doing next time I am in the city. There's a restaurant supply stainless steel bowl at my dad's he uses for sausage that's 3x the size of my biggest bowl here.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

Skylar, fjm - it's the simplest solutions, eh? Hadn't occured to me to just cook turkey. Thank you.


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## For Want of Poodle (Feb 25, 2019)

A somewhat rambling update to what is becoming my feeding journal...

I upped the fish oil content in the last two batches of food and OMG Annie is looking glossy. Can't get a good photo, because black dog problems, but visibly glossier.

Current organs are pork and beef liver, rather than beef liver and kidney and the food is way less offensive smelling. Each batch of meat has been different so far, balanced with the calculator based on what meat is on sale and available.
It's Thanksgiving this weekend, so the next batch of food will likely be heavily turkey based.

I am stalking thrift stores and buying pyrex loaf pans whenever I see them. They are the best I have found for baking - easier to clean than metal or Corning Ware pans, easier to cut without crumbling than round casserole dishes, fit well in the oven, cook faster than bigger dishes.

I have discovered the dogs LOVE squash. They like potato, but they LOVE squash. As in, will beg while I am cutting up baked squash. Will raid the compost bin for squash skin. I don't even put oil or butter or salt on my squash! Currently they are eating squash and potatoes and veggies sourced from the garden with store bought meat, oats, and rice. I wish I had grown more squash, but half of my squash plants, and all of my storage squash plants failed  The dogs and I will have to fight over the squash, since I like squash too.

I DIY'd dehydrated dog food for a camping trip. Camping trips were one of the things I was most worried about with this homecooked diet. Freeze dried raw is way too high in fat to use as a base. Cans are really heavy for backpacking. Homecooked needs refrigeration.

I skipped organs since it was only for a few days, mixed lean ground pork with oatmeal that I ground in the blender, plus supplements, baked in the oven, blotted off the fat, cut into tiny pieces, and dehydrated. I also dehydrated mixed potato and squash then blitzed it into a powder, and added extra oatmeal. I added fish oil capsules on the trail at the same time I fed her prednisone, as I don't like drying fatty food. If she wasnt on a low fat diet, I would have added coconut oil on the trail like I do for my own food.

It rehydrated really nicely with hot water, and ended up weighing less than kibble! When I make it again, I might blend the dried meat into a powder too, and mix it in since SOMEONE decided to pick out the meat pieces. I had the dehydrator running for a week anyways with my own food, so the biggest challenge of the whole thing was convincing Annie she needed to wait while the food cooled and rehydrated.

Oh - and she stole a hotdog that was left unattended and tried to lick bacon plates and begged jerky off of my friends and begged squash soup from me and generally had a fantastic time. Despite all of this, I was repeatedly told what a calm, polite, well behaved poodle I have! There's a reason I made her food for camping extra low fat. 

I will probably make more dehydrated food to keep on hand for travelling, it was so convenient not to worry about refrigeration.


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