# Tails



## Marlow's Mum (Apr 20, 2011)

Purley said:


> I have been looking at Poodle breeder sites where they do not dock the tails. I have noticed that there seem to be quite a lot of dogs that have tails that curl over the back. I am not ready for another dog but if I were to get a poodle, I think it would be nice to get one with a natural tail. On the other hand, even though I am not into showing -- I really don't like those curled over tails.
> 
> I am wondering if the breeders here can tell me about natural tails and if its hard to find a nice dog from a breeder that does health testing that doesn't have those curly tails.
> 
> I am wondering if the trouble is that breeders who favour natural tails, do not show their dogs. How about showing a poodle with a natural tail? Is that a waste of time in the US or Canada?


Silken Poodles, based in Ontario Canada doesn't dock tails. If you look at her dogs, some of them have curly tails (Lucy) and some have straighter tails (Bindi, Feebee, River). She breeds reds and partis. I love the look of a natural tail as well :act-up:


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## caboodles (Jan 7, 2011)

The curl of the tail isn't something any breeder can control (I don't think? I could be wrong). I think that it's just one of those things that varies dog per dog. I know with mine, Winston has the most beautiful perfectly straight tail, whereas Hudson has the curl. Looking back, I don't even think Hudson came with a curly tail.. I feel like it was something that "became" as he grew and matured.

At the end of the day, do I like Winston's tail better? .. Yes. But really, I don't even care because what I notice most is that when they wag, they're the same and THEY REALLY WAG.. FULL body movements from side to side, almost as if it's going to push them over or throw them off balance. That's what I personally love about the full tail and it makes me smile from ear to ear everytime!!


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## Purley (May 21, 2010)

Maybe I have been influenced by that know-it-all twit in my agility class with the Heinz57 -- nothing wrong with mutts but she professes to know everything about everything -- she is the one who told me that the standard poodle in the agility class was a cross between a poodle and a Portie. And the reason for her thinking -- that poodles cannot be two colours and that poodle has white toes and chest -- AND it has a tail that curls over its back. Admittedly its REALLY curly - it curls around in a complete circle and then some and it has a really heavy head - very much like my son's Goldendoodle. But the fact remains - it COULD be a poodle.

I didn't even bother to argue when she said that a silver poodle didn't exist - it had to be a cross with a Schnauzer!!!

I just wish she would shut up. I know she talks garbage but there are others who might think she actually knows what she is talking about!!


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

The reason dogs with natural tails have such a lot of variety is that the tails have been routinely docked for so long, nobody has bothered to take tails into account when breeding, so there is no real standard for what the tail should look like.

My dog's tail is what's usually called 'gay' -- i.e. upright and curling over her back. (cutting off tails and ears for cosmetic reasons is illegal in my country) Here's a blurry picture of her as a puppy showing what I mean. Most poodles here have tails with what I'd describe as a sickle curve, but I think I prefer my dog's tail more, because it has character and because it's compact it doesn't knock stuff over when it wags. Tail shape is hereditary, so if you want to know how a puppy's tail will look, look at its parents'. My dog's dad and her paternal grandmother both have gay tails.

Plenty of countries don't allow dogs' tails to be docked, so you could consider getting a poodle from abroad if you're having trouble finding a suitable breeder in your own country.

Her tail did 'uncurl' slightly for a while after she had been spayed. I assume the muscles she uses to hold it up hurt.

Additional: poodles being shown at Crufts with 'sickle tails'


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## Purley (May 21, 2010)

I can understand that. If the breeders are not concerned with tails then they will be what they will be until breeders decide that they want straight tails (or whatever). 

There is a big furore here because vets are discussing passing some kind of rule that they cannot dock tails or remove dew claws. My vet breeds Beardies and she says one of the reasons she chose that breed was because there would be no involvement in tail docking and ear cropping. 

The president of our kennel club breeds Old English. She has shown her dogs at Westminster and she is all in favour of banning tail docking in Old English but apparently there are people in the OE breed club that are very, very - I am not sure if aggressive is the right word -- but they are against banning docking. Our president says she has seen OE in Europe with natural tails and they look just fine to her. 

In Canada though some of the breed standards would need to be changed because tail docking is required in the breed standard. 

Yes. I think they look just fine. I guess its all what you get used to.


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

I think it might help if they modified the show clips slightly to accommodate dogs with longer tails. Groomers are still trimming the fur on the tail from the base up the same as they shape the 'ball' on the docked tail, so it looks more like a banana. It might work better to shape two balls with a shaved part between. What I do with my dog's tail is to shape it into a plume with scissors, so it is shaved close at the base and then gradually gets longer towards the middle and tapers slightly at the end.


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## littlestitches (Dec 28, 2009)

Here in NS, Canada is is illegal to dock tails or do the ears of dogs. It is only recent that law came in place (maybe 2 or 3 years).

I really like the look of the tail on your dog *zyrcona*, it looks so soft

Paula


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

I LOVE the idea of a tail with TWO balls on it!!!


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## Purley (May 21, 2010)

I wish we were more like Europe. I think dogs look so much better with natural looking cuts. I don't suppose Arreau will mind my posting this photo - its one of her last puppies that is being shown in Germany (I am pretty sure its Germany). 

Maybe show people won't agree, and that is fine if they don't, but I really love the way this dog's coat looks like actual dog hair!!! (Sorry- I admit its getting away from the subject of tails).


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## caboodles (Jan 7, 2011)

I'm sure someday Canada will do the same with the tails.. after all, Europe and Australia/NZ are rather LARGE continents, with probably a huge portion of the poodle population, so I can see their undocking trends spread quickly.

PLUS I think more and more people are preferring the full tail.. I DO love the look of the pompom tail, but you can pretty much master the same look still with the full tail (as you can see with Arreau's Quincy)

OLDDDD ENGLISHH sheepdogs.. = SOOOO CUTE!!! I would totally have one at some point in my life, but that's a LOT of hair to manage (+shedding). But those dogs are just so adorable!


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

caboodles said:


> I'm sure someday Canada will do the same with the tails.. after all, Europe and Australia/NZ are rather LARGE continents, with probably a huge portion of the poodle population, so I can see their undocking trends spread quickly.


Note that while docking is illegal in Australia, it's still legal in NZ. Cropping ears isn't legal, but docking is very much legal. Half the Aussie dogs come here to have their litter so they can be docked before going back home...


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## caboodles (Jan 7, 2011)

OHHH, whoops! I didn't know that.. thanks for clarifying!!


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## Taxi (Jan 18, 2010)

Generally speaking all poodles tails curl... that is the reason the ones that are docked stand up. Depending on their mood their tails will straighten out but when the are happy & proud they will stand up & curl when they are all natural.


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## Geneva77 (May 20, 2011)

I think the curling tail is adorable! Makes me wonder what my pup's would have looked like. I think docking does seem cruel and had I a choice, I would have preferred a natural tail. I'm a mom who would not circumcise my boys either, not to change the subject but both procedures must hurt!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Taxi said:


> Generally speaking all poodles tails curl... that is the reason the ones that are docked stand up. Depending on their mood their tails will straighten out but when the are happy & proud they will stand up & curl when they are all natural.


All poodles' tails do not curl. There are poodles with undocked, straight tails. My dog's sire is one of those.


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## Taxi (Jan 18, 2010)

Taxi said:


> Generally speaking all poodles tails curl... that is the reason the ones that are docked stand up. Depending on their mood their tails will straighten out but when the are happy & proud they will stand up & curl when they are all natural.





ChocolateMillie said:


> All poodles' tails do not curl. There are poodles with undocked, straight tails. My dog's sire is one of those.


I know better than to say anything is ever "all", "always", "its only this way" etc. Especially in a forum because someone will "generally speaking" will contradict you. :wink: 

ChocolateMillie you bring up a very helpful point since Purley is inquiring about breeders who's litters have straight tails. There is a "possiblity" that your dog's sire could produce a pup with a straight tail.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I just don't know that I agree that "generally speaking" poodles have curled tails. This might be true in the USA, but there are plenty of undocked, straight tails, especially in places where care is taken to breed for such a characteristic.

As far as my dog's sire, he is unfortunately back in Sweden!  Though he did produce the straightest tail I've ever seen! My pup with a straight tail (docked, though, I can't imagine it would curl even if it were undocked!)


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## Dogsinstyle (Sep 6, 2009)

A lot of tails do curl, but some don't....
Here is Gadget at 5 months.


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## Taxi (Jan 18, 2010)

Dogsinstyle said:


> A lot of tails do curl, but some don't....
> Here is Gadget at 5 months.


Good looking pup.


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