# Tacking as a preventative before bloat



## Spooluvr (Feb 5, 2012)

Has anyone heard of having the dog tacked before an incident of bloat has occurred?

My breeder suggested when we have our spoo (almost 6 mos now) nuetered we should have him tacked at the same time as a preventative measure. The vet we see felt it too invasive and felt there was no need to do it without cause. 

Anyone else do this or know about it?


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

Yes, my dog had it done at age 6 with her spay. There are a few threads here on the forum about it..just search for gastropexy..or bloat prevention.


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## Spooluvr (Feb 5, 2012)

*Thanks*

Thanks I'll look, 6 years old is different than being less than a year old


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Spooluvr said:


> Has anyone heard of having the dog tacked before an incident of bloat has occurred?
> 
> My breeder suggested when we have our spoo (almost 6 mos now) nuetered we should have him tacked at the same time as a preventative measure. The vet we see felt it too invasive and felt there was no need to do it without cause.
> 
> Anyone else do this or know about it?


It is one of my biggest pet peeves that vets suggest against this. My vet talked me out of the preventative tack on my girl. And this is AFTER I specifically _chose_ a girl puppy so that I could _more easily tack her_ during spay having just gone through GDV (bloat with torsion) with my mom's 23 month old standard.

I will forever regret listening to my vet, even though my gut instinct and everything I knew from those who know the POODLE BREED best (which is NOT vets) told me to go ahead and tack her. Now that she has already been spayed, I will NOT put her under and have a 12 inch incision sliced onto her belly so that she can be tacked. 

For my male, who is a GCH and will hopefully be bred down the road, I WILL have him tacked when/if he is neutered in the future.

I suggest that you go with your gut instinct, tack your dog if you feel that is the right choice (only you can decide, while I personally believe it is a wise choice, it is certainly not without its downsides). 

****This is the important part****But, I suggest that you wait to neuter your dog until after he is mature (another thing your vet will likely disagree with), _particularly_ if you are going to have him tacked. Tacking an immature 6 month old puppy who is not yet done growing is not a good choice if you wish for the stomach to have the greatest chances of remaining tacked to the rib.

If you cannot wait to have your dog neutered, I would not have him tacked. However, I think that your dog will benefit in _many ways_ from waiting to be neutered until at least 12 months old. So it really is a win-win situation to wait until he is mature, and then tack/neuter together.****

My theory and experience so far is that most vets, while of course aware of health issues in the context and relevance of dogs as a whole, are often greatly unaware of the incidence and lifetime risk of health issues specific to breeds. Also, I have come to the conclusion that if a vet is pushing for you NOT to tack your dog, they probably have not done enough gastropexies for me to feel comfortable having them do it. I would ask your vet how many pexies he has done. And, while you are waiting for your dog to mature before neutering him (  ), I would begin researching other vets who have successfully performed a number of pexies. I believe that experience REALLY does matter in this case.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

After watching my Mothers beloved silver bloat twice in five weeks, I recommend it to all of my puppy buyers. This boy was euthanized with his second episode, and it is the most terrifying thing I have seen. We recommend spaying at eight months and neutering at 12-14 months and we suggest they have it done at the same time as their spay or neuter.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Spooluvr said:


> The vet we see felt it too invasive and felt there was *no need to do it without cause*.


I feel a good cause and need would be the fact in case of owning a deep chested breed that's prone to bloat.


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## Spooluvr (Feb 5, 2012)

*Thanks for the advice*

You guys are all great thanks for the advice. My spoo is the most affectionate dog I've ever owned and I would never want anything to happen to my little boy


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## Sawyersmomma (May 28, 2012)

Sorry to ask on your thread, but would you guys recommend tacking a dog AFTER he's already been neutered? I'd never heard about it until I joined on here, and Sawyer has already been neutered. Is it worth it to undergo surgery just for this? and is it really expensive?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Sawyersmomma said:


> Sorry to ask on your thread, but would you guys recommend tacking a dog AFTER he's already been neutered? I'd never heard about it until I joined on here, and Sawyer has already been neutered. Is it worth it to undergo surgery just for this? and is it really expensive?


It's something I looked into with Mil. When I was looking around, it was reasonably affordable at a few hundred dollars at the local, experienced specialty vet (the same one that did H's emergency's pexy) for a traditional belt-loop pexy. This is the most common type of pexy but does require a very large incision. This is why it really makes a lot of sense to do it at the same time a girl is being spayed - the belly is already opened up. For a boy, well, it's not like the whole belly is opened up during a neuter anyway, so it's not such a big deal to do it in a separate surgery, except for the whole putting the dog under again and having to go through another recovery - a fairly long one at that. 

There is always the laparoscopic gastropexy, which is less invasive but is also significantly more expensive. I believe I was quoted around $1,500 from that same vet. What I have read indicates that the lap. pexy is similar in strength to the belt loop.

It's not an easy answer...you have to weigh everything out. If I knew of bloat in the lines, or if I had a particularly large dog, I'd be more likely to go ahead and have the pexy done as a separate surgery.

For my boy, I do plan to tack him eventually whether or not he is neutered. But, I don't want to tack him yet in case I decide to neuter him in the next 3 or 4 years.

I like this article as it is fairly recent and gives a nice, easy to understand overview of the available pexies: http://www.akcchf.org/canine-health...ing-for-your-dog/prophylactic-gastropexy.html

FWIW, the lifetime risk of GDV in a large breed dog (and I believe, but don't quote me on this that standard poodles were listed in this category) is 24%.


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## Sawyersmomma (May 28, 2012)

He's definitely a big boy... 27''. He's only 48 pounds right now though but we're working on it. But because of size that would probably be a good idea then right? He's 14 months


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## Poodle Head (Sep 12, 2011)

> Originally Posted by Sawyersmomma
> Sorry to ask on your thread, but would you guys recommend tacking a dog AFTER he's already been neutered? I'd never heard about it until I joined on here, and Sawyer has already been neutered. Is it worth it to undergo surgery just for this? and is it really expensive?


I would look into laparoscopic surgery if you can find someone that does it in your area. It is much less invasive.. just two tiny ports. I had my girl done laparoscopically with her spay. The vet that performed the surgery said he did his own golden much later than her spay. He said she was a nervous dog and had a deep chest/narrow waist which prompted him to do it after seeing the horrors of torsion. It is a bit more expensive than doing traditional surgery, but not in comparison to emergency surgery for bloat/torsion.


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## Eclipse (Apr 26, 2010)

I had a gastropexy done on my girl when I spayed her at 12 months. It was something her breeder recommended to those that bought her pups. I lost my first spoo to bloat many years ago at an advanced age, but it didn't make the loss any easier and I would have done anything to spare her the pain before I had to let her go. If there was something I could do do to help prevent that happening again, I wanted to do so (within reason of course). I weighed the risks of the surgery, did independent research on pros and cons and decided to go ahead with it. It also helped that my vet was on board with the surgery, besides her local practice she is also the director of the local 24 hour emergency clinic and has done many pexies on an emergency basis on dogs that come in with bloat. She recognizes certain breeds are a bloat risk and she was all for doing what would be done anyway for bloat when the dog was not stressed. And of course, even with a pexy the dog can still bloat, but should not torsion and it buys you some precious extra time to get to the vet and have a favorable outcome.


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## Cynthadia (Oct 22, 2010)

I have mixed feelings re doing a prophlyactic gastropexy. On the one hand, it is a disease(?) that *requires* emergency (and very expensive) surgical intervention, and which is to my distress is becoming more prevalent in the breed. On the other hand, are we breeding bloat-prone dogs whose legacy is bloating dogs who themselves require surgical intervention to survive? 

It's a slippery slope, one that I've tumbled down several times as a former breeder of four standard poodle litters back in the 90s. I've bred dogs that bloated and whose progeny bloated. I don't think the answer for the betterment of the breed is prophylactic gastropexy, yet I know firsthand what that awful trip to the emergency clinic means.

I don't know.


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## Siskojan (Mar 13, 2011)

Sisko was bloating and it was absolutely horrible, my worst nightmare. He was a very gassy belcher and I had lived in fear just watching and waiting and hoping it wouldn't happen. Then it did. He spent a night in the ER and didn't need any dire treatment that night but the pexy was strongly recommended and insurance paid for it, as it was now considered treatment rather than prophylaxis. The recovery was tough and he was heartbreakingly pathetic for 2 weeks or so, and had to be kept quiet longer than that, but what a relief to know it is done and that he's safe. Still belches but more delicately and much less often.

Our vet thinks the belt loop procedure is way more secure. The incision is way bigger of course (6 - 8") but the laparascopic procedure takes longer so they are under anesthesia longer and the cost is more. By the time everything was itemized and accounted for the cost for us was around $2400 the laparascopic would have been closer to 4K.


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## Sawyersmomma (May 28, 2012)

So I checked out this website (Preventing Torsion When Bloating with Prophylactic Gastropexy | AKC Canine Health Foundation) that someone on here suggested. (sorry, forgot who just wrote it)
Anyway I still couldn't find the pros/cons to each of the surgeries. 
The belt-loop seems the cheapest method. Other than the larger incision is it any less successful in preventing bloat than the other kinds?

I know money shouldn't be an object when it comes to my dogs... but if I get the belt loop surgery, and it does the same with a bit larger incision and is significantly cheaper... I'm going to do that one :ahhhhh:
Or is there really a reason it's less expensive? I mean I read it's through open surgery... but other than that...?


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## Tonjad (Mar 12, 2012)

I don't know either. I had my female great dane tacked at 8 mons when she was spayed. The breeder had never had one of his bloat and Gabby did fine. I called and got an estimate for it for Sofia when she is 8 mons for spay,microchip and stomach tack and was quoted $547.00 I think. Not to bad I guess. I do remember my dane had a scar about 12 inches long ! We did not have my sons dane tacked (he is nephew of my dane)and at 8.5 yrs old he is doing fine. So I am still considering it for Sofia....


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Sawyersmomma said:


> So I checked out this website (Preventing Torsion When Bloating with Prophylactic Gastropexy | AKC Canine Health Foundation) that someone on here suggested. (sorry, forgot who just wrote it)
> Anyway I still couldn't find the pros/cons to each of the surgeries.
> The belt-loop seems the cheapest method. Other than the larger incision is it any less successful in preventing bloat than the other kinds?
> 
> ...


Yes, it's through open surgery which means a larger incision and therefore a greater risk for infection and healing complications. (Though that doesn't make it unsafe.)

Lap. pexy is a much smaller incision, less risk of infection or complications during healing, but a longer duration surgery (more time under anesthesia) and more expensive. It's quicker and requires less anesthesia, which is one of the reasons it's less expensive.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

A few more articles - the first one is a comparison of belt loop and lap.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...N7Ti4mOPtKXwTXX5A&sig2=7BLwr0IquTeF23GAVQ1Q9w

Key gastrointestinal surgeries: Incisional gastropexy - Veterinary Medicine


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## Rayah-QualitySPs (Aug 31, 2010)

Spooluvr said:


> Has anyone heard of having the dog tacked before an incident of bloat has occurred?
> 
> My breeder suggested when we have our spoo (almost 6 mos now) nuetered we should have him tacked at the same time as a preventative measure. The vet we see felt it too invasive and felt there was no need to do it without cause.
> 
> Anyone else do this or know about it?


Dear Spooluvr;
Tacking of the stomach *prevents only torsion* not the actual bloat. 

Poodles who have their stomach tacked/attached to their body can *still bloat*. Bloat is the *swelling up* of the stomach. The *torsion or twisting* of the stomach is what causes *the big problem*s. Cutting off of blood supply to stomach and maybe the spleen is what causes the irreversible changes to occur.

If your breeder is reputable you should *listen* carefully to his/her *reasons* but in the end you make your decision based on your thoughts and feelings and make an educated guess about what is the safest thing to do for your dog. 

For more information you shoud speak to a *couple* of veterinarians in your area who have *routinely* tacked stomachs or have done some *emergency tacks and the poodle survives*. 

I have heard of *tack failures* especially in poodles who were tacked young or the owner did not follow the care required after the surgery. Often you must keep the poodle quiet until the tack has solidified to the body.

Maybe you should do two different surgeries. One to neuter and a follow up when your dog is a year and a half old for the tack. 

I would not tack a young dog based on how horrible this disease is but rather on the history of bloat in the relatives of the dog. It is known that one of the risk factors is age. The older a poodle gets the higher the chance of it bloating with torsion. 

IMHO only a vet who is *very experienced* in this surgery should be doing it. This does not mean a specialist vet but a general duty vet who does surgery on a weekly basis and has previous experience with tacking a stomach.

Keep us posted.


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

Yes, I was told by my breeder that there are two different "types" if you will...of bloat. One is dogs who have bloaed young..and the 2nd is dogs who bloat as seniors. 

In my dogs line there is no hx of early bloat...but my breeder feels that all older dogs are at risk...so they typically do the plexy on females who are being spayed and retired. Its a hard decision for sure.


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## jasperspoo (Feb 25, 2011)

I had Jasper gastropexied when he was neutered at 14 months. It was an invasive surgery, as my vet doesn't have the facilities to do it laparoscopically. He does a lot of surgeries, but doesn't have a high-tech facility. The poor guy had a 9" incision on his abdomen, in addition to the neuter. I really like my vet, though, and trust him so wanted it to be done my him not someone else. My vet wasn't 100% for it, but he was happy enough to do it without trying to convince me otherwise. His partner is an ER vet part time and she is a huge advocate for tacking, as she seems lots of dogs come in to the animal ER with GDV.

When I get another spoo, I'd never hesitate to have them gastropexied. It doesn't prevent the bloat or anything, but it sure gives your beloved pet a better chance of survival!

As for age to neuter- my breeder recommended 14 months as a good time (and not before 12 months) My vet recommended 6 months, but was respectful of my decision to neuter later. Jasper never, ever exhibited any 'unwanted' male behaviours (humping, marking inside, aggression) and once he was neutered, ceased to lift his leg to pee much of the time. As long as you're careful, there's no need to neuter early, and your boy will reap the benefits!


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## Sawyersmomma (May 28, 2012)

I went to the vets today and asked them if they do tacking. The secretary asked one of the three vets and she told me that the owner (the main vet, the only one I'd trust for this) has done it, but for emergency, he hasn't done it as a preventative before. He wasn't there so I'm thinking of phoning within the week and asking if he'd do it anyway. He's done it before for dogs so it should be safe right? I live in a small town and so far no one I've talked to knew what it was-other than the vets office... the secretary even seemed a bit confused. I trust this vet though and am hoping he'll say yes! Why are vets against recommending it as a preventative sometimes?


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

Sawyersmomma said:


> I went to the vets today and asked them if they do tacking. The secretary asked one of the three vets and she told me that the owner (the main vet, the only one I'd trust for this) has done it, but for emergency, he hasn't done it as a preventative before. He wasn't there so I'm thinking of phoning within the week and asking if he'd do it anyway. He's done it before for dogs so it should be safe right? I live in a small town and so far no one I've talked to knew what it was-other than the vets office... the secretary even seemed a bit confused. I trust this vet though and am hoping he'll say yes! Why are vets against recommending it as a preventative sometimes?


I wouldnt let someone who has never done a surgery do their first one on my dog. Its a well documented fact that technique improves with the number of porcedures a surgeon does. Even if he has done emergency pexy I would still want someone who has done a lot of them. Just my opinion of course


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## Sawyersmomma (May 28, 2012)

Thanks... I don't know who would. The nearest city that has a possibility of it would be 2 hours away... and 4 hours would be the most likely one. Would you think it's worth it to take the trip? I trust Mike (the vet) a ton, he removed Sawyer's rock, and has always been very good to me


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

Its a tough call. If you trust your vet and you obviously do...I would say he/she should able to say if he can do the surgery. I would always prefer someone who does a fair amount of them..and lazer but only you and your vet can decide the best course of action. Stella was done by my beeders vet who has done many of them. My vet has not done many..but one of her partners has. I would trust her to do it.

Good luck with your decision..its never easy deciding such things for our beloved pets.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

The secretary said that the vet had done the surgery . . . in emergencies. So he has done the operation before.

And now he gets to do it on an elective basis. No difference in surgeries... this one is simply timed to everybody's convenience.


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

Countryboy said:


> The secretary said that the vet had done the surgery . . . in emergencies. So he has done the operation before.
> 
> And now he gets to do it on an elective basis. No difference in surgeries... this one is simply timed to everybody's convenience.


Id say it is not the same surgery...but maybe less of a surgery. As with bloat you can have much more extensive work to do. I guess Im just a skeptic because I work in the hospital and have seen a lot over the years (people medicine). 

If you vet is happy to do it and feels competent to do it then you will likely be fine  I didnt let my vet office do Stella's becuase they havent done many..but they are great and could probably do it. My vet did some mammary gland surgery on Stella..and has done neuters for me. She has been my vet for 20+ years! But I asked my breeder to have it done 4 hrs away from me before I got her because I just felt better with someone who has done many of them.


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## Spooluvr (Feb 5, 2012)

Well the jury is in thanks to all who responded. I just heard from an assistant professor at the University of Florida Veteraniarian hospital who said he would 100% do the procedure as a preventative measure on spoos. He said he's seen too many cases, and reccommended doing it between 8- 12 mos old. So in a couple of months we'll be going to Gainesville to that hospital where he's done loads of them laproscopically and have it done. Thanks again for helping me make this decision.


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## Poodle Head (Sep 12, 2011)

Great news! I'm so glad you found a vet to do it laparoscopically. When I spoke with my vet the price was very close to traditional surgery. The reason being I was able to drop her off first thing in the morning and pick her up the same evening. With a traditional spay/pexy she would have stayed over night increasing the cost. It was just under $1,000 for the lap. spay/pexy in Boston.


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