# What I've learned about Dental Health



## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

"The best one out of the bunch was probably the chicken back and feet."

Amen, sist'a! 

Maybe not so perfect for Toys, but Tonka gets a chicken back after every bowl of dinner he finishes. A picky eater, it's a treat/reward/dessert for him.

And keeps his teeth nice and white.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I’ll be ordering those Virbac Chews! Why do toy breeds seem so much more susceptible to dental issues? Or is that a false impression?


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Mfmst said:


> I’ll be ordering those Virbac Chews! Why do toy breeds seem so much more susceptible to dental issues? Or is that a false impression?


It’s not an impression, they really are. They teeth are just too small, too crowded and the bits of food get stuck more I guess.

You can’t have a chihuahua that doesn’t lose teeth if you don’t brush everyday. They have the worse teeth. In comparison, my toys are a lot better and I don’t think they will ever have to have teeth removed if I am careful.

I know a gu6 who does teeth cleaning without anesthesia. I don’t need to hold the dogs, he does it himself. People say it’s dangerpus because they don’t do the polishing afterwards and that could cause bacteria to enter. So I’ve been afraid to go back.

I didn’t do their teeth for about 10 months and they have plaque now. I started again but the plaque is hard to get rid of. I might buy one of those tools the dentist uses to try and scrape it off.


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## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

Dechi said:


> I might buy one of those tools the dentist uses to try and scrape it off.


Do not scrape! Yes, get a scaling tool, but use it to scale, not scrape. Scraping scratches the tooth enamel. Scaling is catching the edges of the plaque and lifting chunks of it off of the tooth. 

Once if is off of the tooth try to get as much of the plaque chunks as possible out of the mouth, as it is nasty stuff and you don't want your dog to swallow any more of it than necessary.

I'm sure there are videos on youtube.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

I've never even thought of the bacteria aspect. I've been talking to Pom breeders and everyone seems to have an ultrasonic teeth scaler. Maybe I need one too at this point.


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## JenandSage (Mar 9, 2018)

Thanks for sharing Snow. Happy was a lucky boy to have had you looking after him.
I sit next to a dental hygienist at work and all her talk about human teeth and mouths is so pertinent to dogs too, except we can’t eat those chews!! The himalayan ones look kind of good 
I am lucky that Sage lets me brush with an electric tooth brush. He has nice big teeth, of course. Until last year I was only brushing once or twice a week. After his yearly check up I started to do it pretty much every day because the vet said I had to She noticed a big difference this year and told me it would be a long time before he needed a dental if I kept it up! 
I don’t know how it helps anyone other than I started early. Little Saffron has already let me do it for about 2 seconds, but it’s a start!
Really good to know about paying attention to small dogs’ teeth.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

I have a question for others actually. Can small dogs choke to death on raw chicken feet? I mean truly small dogs that are 7lbs or below. This is not an issue for large dogs. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I got the rawhide chews from Virbac. Noelle has one in her paws now. Thanks for the information. I'm still really sorry about Happy.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I brush daily, give PlaqueOff treats, and occasional dental chews. Poppy doesn't mind the brushing and will (reluctantly) let me scale her teeth with a thumb nail, Sophy won't. In fact she got so upset by my doing it that for months she would not let me touch her mouth unless I promised I was Just Looking. Little by little I re-introduced the toothbrush, at first a single swipe, then a swipe each side, and now she will let me do a reasonably thorough brushing which keeps her gums healthy although it does not remove the plaque that has built up. She had one dental under mild sedation a few years ago, and may need another soon, but twice in ten years is not bad for a toy! Poppy has a few stains, but regular brushing and an occasional thumb flick keeps things under control. I reckon the key is a toothpaste they really like, even if it is not the most effective one - that way brushing teeth becomes a way of getting a treat rather than a dreary battle. 

How acceptable do dogs find the ultrasonic scalers, Snow? And do they work?


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

fjm said:


> How acceptable do dogs find the ultrasonic scalers, Snow? And do they work?


*How acceptable?*
I have not used an ultrasonic scaler but guess it is similar to nonanesthetic dentals because your dog is awake on its back. Happy and Nibbler were very good about those teeth cleanings but Lucky was not. I had expected him to be fantastic because he is great about grooming. Unfortunately, most of the dental have to do with how well your dog enjoys laying on their back. He is the only dog that I am not able to teach him the settle or roll over command because he doesn't like to be on his back so the nonanesthetic dental was very hard. 

*Do they work?*
Yes, but the dog has to accept it. The person breeder I spoke with was the President of the American Pomeranian Club. She introduced the ultrasonic scaler to the other breeders. She is known to breed smaller Poms under 5lbs. In fact, Happy's pedigree goes back to her dogs. She is a retired nurse and her daughter is an orthodontist. She was very thankful her daughter introduced these scalers because it prevents a lot of heartaches. She has been breeding Poms for 40+ years and poms dying from dental happens all the time. She said the worst is when a young pom dies when they go in to get neutered or spayed. 

I've spoken to another breeder not far from me who also has an ultrasonic scaler that she swears by because it saves money. She said dentals usually runs about $300 for each dog, which is the total cost of one ultrasonic machine. She can use this machine year after year on all of her show poms.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

I am very sorry for your loss of Happy, esp. during a procedure that you had done to extend the quality of his life.

However...



> 4. Non-Anesthetic dentals are a great solution Vets will tell you that nonanesthetic dentals don't work because it doesn't get under the surface of their teeth. Most of the people saying this have never ever had their dog put through nonanesthetic dental. My opinion on this is that it depends a lot on the person you go to. I go to a woman who works as a human hygenist and does a great job on dogs. She manages to go beneath the gum lines and is kinda a miracle worker. It really isn't that different from getting your own teeth cleaned.
> 
> I believe non-anesthetic dentals work because Happy had it done every 6 months. It is a great solution for geriatric dogs. The reason I didn't opt for this was that he needed extractions. I wasn't certain if it was just his front teeth or possibly the molars as well. Non-anesthetic dental people will do tooth extractions with topical numbing creams but I worried about the risk of infection so I thought the vet was safer. In the future, I'd probably go this route and take them to the vet if there is an infection and for painkillers.
> 
> A downside to this is that it generally requires your dog to behave. You also need to hold your dog and not be afraid of blood. Just like a human dental cleaning, you will see bleeding gums. Most nonanesthetic dog people don't have assistants to hold your dog down.


NO! NO! NO! This is horrible information and recommendations that you are spreading! Non-anesthetic dentals are NOT better! I am also Horrified to learn of topical numbing creams being used for Extractions! OMG, that is so inhumane! Unless your dogs tooth is literally hanging on by a thread, that will not provide adequate pain control (and if it is that loose, then they need full mouth dental radiographs as I am sure other teeth are needing to be extracted as well and have bone loss). Local nerve blocks should be required for all extractions, oral pain medications to go home, and pain injections in the hospital. Please go have work done on your tooth with just the oral numbing cream and then keep saying that is okay. 

The main problem with just ultra-scaling the teeth awake is that you cannot take dental radiographs, and you cannot do an adequate probing of the teeth to locate periodontal pockets and issues (try having a metal probe stuck in your gums where you are painful when you are awake). So many issues get missed, and there-fore not treated. You have clean, lovely looking mess of a mouth as you couldn't get to the (literal) root of the issues. Plus, when you have your teeth cleaned and water sprayed in, you know to not swallow it and your tech suctions out the water. Animals don't know this and end up either swallowing alot of bacteria filled water, or even worse, aspirating it (breathing it in). 
Please do not put your pet through a worthless, scary procedure that is not in their best interest. 

Anesthesia Free Pet Dental Cleaning Facts
Anesthesia Free Pet Dental Cleaning & Pet Dental Health Information
Anesthesia Free Pet Dental Cleaning & Teeth Scaling


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

People with standard poodles would not have this problem. It is only an issue with toy breeds. The margin of error for a big dog is a lot wider, ie spoo, whereas for a toy poodle, the margin of error is thin and the result is fatal. This is why you don't see anyone ever talk about this problem in Great Pyrenees forums but it is ONLY a huge problem in toy breed groups. There is a place for nonanesthetic dental for geriatric toy dogs. I've talked to a few pom breeders, my vet, and even my dentist about nonanesthetic dental and they've sided with me so I didn't have a problem posting what I've learned. Nonanesthetic extractions on already loose front teeth is absolutely preferable to doing a regular dental and putting your small dog's life at risk. 



bigpoodleperson said:


> Please go have work done on your tooth with just the oral numbing cream and then keep saying that is okay.


Since you've asked, I've actually had this done for an infected tooth when I was a teenager. A few years ago, I had an emergency wisdom tooth extraction and the dentist offered me to have it done with just topical anesthesia because the impacted tooth was on the surface. It seems to be a common practice even for people.

For dogs, it is a personal preference, people can do as they please. I am not spreading any false info. You don't have to agree with me and I'm not going to change your mind about this and at this point, we are going to have to agree to disagree.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

snow the people I know with toy breeds are very picky about where they go for dentals so that the vet doing them is using the lightest type and dose of anesthesia. This doesn't mean that adverse events won't occur and I am not saying you didn't think carefully about getting Happy's dental work done, but personally I have had tons of pretty extensive dental work including 4 wisdom tooth extractions and I would never agree to have any of that work done with only a topical. I have to agree with bigpoodleperson here. She is a vet tech and must have a lot of experience with canine dental work.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

The American Veterinary College has waged a war against Nonanesthetic dentals because it is a highly contentious subject. My opinion is that if a vet sees 100 dogs, there might be 2 that are at the five-pound range. So I certainly understand why vets are against the practice. 


Nonanesthetic dentals are also beneficial for breeds that are sensitive to anesthesia such as brachycephalic dogs (pugs) or sighthounds (greyhound). I've linked a short article about the pros and cons of nonanesthetic dentals but the jury is still out on the potential benefits and risks. It really is up to the individual pet owner.

https://thehonestkitchen.com/blog/what-is-non-anesthetic-dental-cleaning/


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

I used to have non-anesthesia dentals done on Zooey, and my sister did on her dogs, but, no more, for the reasons bigpoodleperson mentioned. I do know it's a risk every time she gets a dental under anesthesia (she's had at least 3 or 4 since I've had her), but I'm willing to take the risk to keep her comfortable.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

zooeysmom said:


> I used to have non-anesthesia dentals done on Zooey, and my sister did on her dogs, but, no more, for the reasons bigpoodleperson mentioned. I do know it's a risk every time she gets a dental under anesthesia (she's had at least 3 or 4 since I've had her), but I'm willing to take the risk to keep her comfortable.



Everything we choose has risks, just hopefully one choice clearly has fewer risks than others. As I said no non-anesthesia dental work for me and it isn't that I am totally against anesthesia and such. I had a major medical procedure done with no sedation because I wanted to make an informed choice in the middle of the process and couldn't have been considered competent to do so if sedated, but dental work for me is a different story.


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## snow0160 (Sep 20, 2016)

I'm going to take the word of a pom breeder whose been showing, breeding 5lb toy breeds for 40+ years, and especially since her daughter is a dentist and an orthodontist. She is also a retired nurse and the president of the APC.


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## chinchillafuzzy (Feb 11, 2017)

Interesting info on this thread. Thanks for sharing. Is there any way to get stains off of the teeth? Luna has some brown stains but they look flush to the surface, not like chunks of plaque. I didn’t start brushing her teeth until a little later on, and while we do it almost daily now, I can’t seem to get rid of the brownish staining.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

> Nonanesthetic dentals are also beneficial for breeds that are sensitive to anesthesia such as brachycephalic dogs (pugs) or sighthounds (greyhound). I've linked a short article about the pros and cons of nonanesthetic dentals but the jury is still out on the potential benefits and risks. It really is up to the individual pet owner.


An established airway (intubated) for a brachycephalic breed is much preferred to a non-established airway for a stressful procedure on their back. The jury is not still out on this issue. The jury (experts in the field) has decided, and decided fully against it. Please see the professional links that I have referenced. 
As for the topical medicine for removing a few loose incisors on toy breed dogs, my argument is that more than just that loose incisor need to be addressed. It is Very common for several incisors to have alot of bone loss under the surface that need to be extracted as well, plus other teeth in the mouth usually need to be addressed as well. You aren't addressing these teeth until they are at the breaking point.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I have a question about the Virbac C.E.T. Enzymatic Oral Hygiene Chews which are rawhide. I thought rawhide was a choking hazard for dogs and is to be avoided? Does anyone know about the potential for choking with this type of rawhide?


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Skylar said:


> I have a question about the Virbac C.E.T. Enzymatic Oral Hygiene Chews which are rawhide. I thought rawhide was a choking hazard for dogs and is to be avoided? Does anyone know about the potential for choking with this type of rawhide?


Yes, Virbac chews are digestible. I've fed them to many dogs over the years. I haven't gotten any miraculous results with them, but the dogs love them and I think they do help their teeth a bit.


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