# Venting about clients who haven't a clue!



## Raena (Sep 20, 2009)

I hear you! Count in border collies goldens and 4 Bernese! I just don't understand! Oh and enter the elusive 'summer cut' season! "what would you like done today?" "oh, a summer cut please!" "and what do you want your dog to look like?" " oh you know I just want a summer cut." well WTH is a summer cut!!!!!!! Blah!!!


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Shaved a samoyed? :C What a shame.

Can you tell me about how the coat air conditions them? I never knew, and I was never taught about it. We just do what they tell us here.. especially since shave downs generally are more expensive, the company likes it's money. u_u


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

a proper double coat insulates the same as inslutation keeps your house warm in winter and cool in summer. It does need to be kept brushed out though, as a packed undercoat is hot and stuffy, but a brushed out airy double coat actually keeps the heat AWAY from the skin, keeping a pocket of air around them that stays at a fairly even temperature; just like insulation!

The reason people swear their dog is cooler is because invariably their dog had a packed undercoat previously; which is certainly very hot (like wearing a woolly jumper) and so shaving it means they're now cooler. But they're also very prone to sun burn and skin damage, and they will need to be watched to keep them from overheating in the sun still! Keep their coats brushed out and it's like wearing a loose t-shirt in the summer; much cooler than bare skin!

I'm so glad it's autumn here now. I hate summer shave downs!!! I don't don't shave down double coated dogs though (unless it really is necessary as the only humane way to get the coat out and start again!)


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## Reesmom (Feb 4, 2010)

Raena said:


> I hear you! Count in border collies goldens and 4 Bernese! I just don't understand! Oh and enter the elusive 'summer cut' season! "what would you like done today?" "oh, a summer cut please!" "and what do you want your dog to look like?" " oh you know I just want a summer cut." well WTH is a summer cut!!!!!!! Blah!!!


Oh. I hate this. I have customers that think a summer cut is anything from an inch to a 10 blade. I get the same thing with the "puppy cut." To me that's about an inch or longer. To some of my clients that's a 7F. :rolffleyes:


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## Oodlejpoodle's mom (Sep 11, 2009)

I have a couple clients that only want to pay for a cut once or twice a year (they want complete shave downs). I told them both I would not be grooming their dogs anymore, they are dirty, stinky and matted. They always seem to call this time for year for the so called "summer cuts". I can understand getting a couple small matts, but when the dogs are completely matted I don't feel these people should even be allowed to own a dog. I have to bite my tongue to keep from saying "why don't you not shower for 6 months to a year and see how you feel". Enough venting.....sorry.


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

Oh and ad insult to injury, one of the aussies HATED the water for her bath. She alligator rolled, snapped, screamed and in general freaked out. I stopped and called the owner, who said he was not going to pay for a haircut if it wasnt finished, and that he wasn't going to pay an additional 40 dollars to have her sedated. yeeeaaahhh 

I muzzled her and had one of our kennel techs hold her so she would settle down. then she was fine and I got it done. surpisingly she was great for the grooming part, which IMO is the scariest part of the whole thing. (next to drying) 

We are a new clinic, and I do not own it, so Im not ale to turn away clients, however, when I have my own shop, I will not be shaving down the double coated breeds. I have no problem scissoring the coat some to neaten it up, but its a huge PITA to shave them down


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## frostfirestandards (Jun 18, 2009)

Oodlejpoodle's mom said:


> I have a couple clients that only want to pay for a cut once or twice a year (they want complete shave downs). I told them both I would not be grooming their dogs anymore, they are dirty, stinky and matted. They always seem to call this time for year for the so called "summer cuts". I can understand getting a couple small matts, but when the dogs are completely matted I don't feel these people should even be allowed to own a dog. I have to bite my tongue to keep from saying "why don't you not shower for 6 months to a year and see how you feel". Enough venting.....sorry.


I did a chow mix like this once, the lady had been bringing it in every 4 months or so, but then her husband and she had lost their jobs, and could not afford to do it as often, the poor dog was pelted to the skin. I felt for the woman, but she could have brushed it. 



On the other hand I LOVE clients who are awesome. I have a lady who brings her two shih-tzu in and they get #7 all over with a very short teddy bear face. The dogs are well behaved, she loves my work (even though its not that difficult) and she tips well.  

I have another lady with a little toy poodle, the lady insists that the dog has shaken and just been a wreck with every other groomer, but she is super good with me. 
She brings her in every month, and last time she was a little matted on her chest and legs. I guess the owner had been out of town and hadn't been able to comb her. The dog looked awesome when I was done though!


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## Raena (Sep 20, 2009)

frostfirestandards said:


> On the other hand I LOVE clients who are awesome. I have a lady who brings her two shih-tzu in and they get #7 all over with a very short teddy bear face. The dogs are well behaved, she loves my work (even though its not that difficult) and she tips well.
> 
> I have another lady with a little toy poodle, the lady insists that the dog has shaken and just been a wreck with every other groomer, but she is super good with me.
> She brings her in every month, and last time she was a little matted on her chest and legs. I guess the owner had been out of town and hadn't been able to comb her. The dog looked awesome when I was done though!


I second this, i have a few that come in, one wheaton who i absolutely love to little pieces!! the only wheaton that hasn't tried to bite my face off (ok not only but there have only been one or two others) a few shih tzus, oooh and Jack the mini poodle and DEETS! and my corgis!! (was told i couldn't forget them!!) ok so the good out weigh the bad, but when they are bad, they are really bad!! for example, the shih tzu and goldendoodle below.....:scared: 
not that you guys really need examples... im sure youve had many of your own.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_OMG!! That is heartbreaking and makes me want to cry. How awful that people let their pets get to a state like that and then expect you to FIX the mess they created. I don't blame you for venting.

That was a really interesting explanation of the double coats being insulators. I had never heard that before and learned something new today.
_


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## Mandycasey'smom (Jan 3, 2009)

For some reason right now our dog park is full of siberians a few malamutes and many crosses but I have never seen so many siberian huskys must be quite a few breeders around or something anyways the talk yesterday was how they were mostly about to get the summer shave down to keep them cool. I cringed
We had a malamute in our early twenties, We spent hours brushing him and getting out that winter coat and got bags and bags of fur daily.
We would never have shaved him Heck try the furminater people don't shave them.

On a brighter note we did meet for the first time a really pretty Cantope red girl I believe just over a year. Played just like Mandy so even though the girl was tired the three of them had a few good romps. Wish I had my camera


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

Raena said:


> not that you guys really need examples... im sure youve had many of your own.


I would have showed the pictures to the owners and said "See what you're dog has to go through when you don't brush them?"

That's soo awful!


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## *heather* (Jul 30, 2009)

Locket said:


> I would have showed the pictures to the owners and said "See what you're dog has to go through when you don't brush them?"
> 
> That's soo awful!


I would also show the pics to animal control!! ... that's animal cruelty in my opinion! isn't it?! wow... so sad!


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

I bet it's hard handing the dogs over after that kind of neglect to their coats.


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## flufflvr (Mar 20, 2010)

Wow. 
Looking at those pictures I would think I was looking at the before picture of a rescue animal, coming in to be groomed. 
Wow. 
At least it looks like it's being fed. Makes me wonder if they've been outside all winter. You wouldn't think that people would want that filth in their house, and then it's doubly sad if they do make it stay outside. People like that should have a stuffed animal from the toy store, or if they just can't keep up with the hair, a lab or some other dog whose coat sheds on its own. 
Poor dog, and poor you for having to deal with that. 
Wow.


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## Birdie (Jun 28, 2009)

Oh man, I feel so bad for that poor shih tzu and the doodle. ): I can't believe they let them get that bad... How horrible. I would certainly show those pics to the owner when they came to pick them up so they could understand just how bad it actually was. They may just genuinely not understand what was wrong, and having you explain it and show them may start brushing or at least keeping their dog in a shorter trim. Many won't care, but there are a precious few who simply didn't know!


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## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

Teddy's groomer told me that she has called animal control on a couple of owners who brought their dogs in matted and dirty. She also said that she demonstrated what having matted hair feels like on an owner's arm. The woman screamed and said she had no idea it hurt that much. I think some people really are just that ignorant.

This morning, Teddy and I were outside talking to some kids through the fence. One of the little girls started kicking at the fence right in front of Teddy, so I asked her to stop so she wouldn't scare him. Another girl, a little older than the first, said, "why? It's only a dog". That really hit me hard in so many ways. I was shocked, saddened, angered and filled with dismay that this little kid seemed to have no respect for animals at all, and from the fact that her attitude had to come from somewhere, i.e., her parents. These are the people who bring their dogs to groomers once a year all matted and dirty and then get angry when the groomer has no choice but to shave them to the skin.

:angry:


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

ugh- i hear you- on nother board someone asked 'should i shave my BC pup" ummm no??? brush it out brush it out- nd then let it be. 

i got about 10 people jumping down my throat that "insulation from the heat is not true" and that 'shaving double coats can not cause issues"


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Ok, so i understand how the double coat insulates and everything, i really do. Is it really That horrible though to shave them? Personally i think not. If they are matted then it is obviously much more humane to shave them. 
If i were to ever inherate a double coated breed like a newf/pyr, etc i would have them shaved. I would take in and save the dog. I wouldnt choose to deal with the coat though. I think its much better then sending the dog to a shelter. Certinly shaving a dog is far less offensive then abuse or something.

I have seen and know how some people just flat out ignore their poor dogs and let them get matted like the doodle pic. I think others have no clue though. Just on friday i had a lovely client come in that we have seen for years. They got a newf about a year ago. They were good about brushing the puppy fluff. He is an adult dog now though. He came in for horrible hot spots. Most of the problem was that his undercoat was severly matted and the skin was getting no air. I had to shave areas and was getting the pelt thing going on. She was horrified and said her husband brushed the dog every night. I said he was brushing the outer coat and not actually getting down to the skin.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

I want to look into this myself more. As some know I trimmed my Poms in the Lion trim a couple months ago and they are growing out wonderfully.

Dont the weather elements have some to do with the practical purpose of the coats, right? 

I am not saying its a good or bad thing but historically - cuts were made for weather conditions and working dogs.

If you are not changing their elements and allowing dogs to be in the heat or cold, then I cannot see the "harm in this".


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

I agree Olie. I personally would Much rather see a shaved, happy, matt free dog if the owner chooses so then see a matted mess because the owner could keep up with it. 

Also, i think the insulation thing only helps to a point. I have Thick hair and it doesnt "insulate" me in the summer. I have to put it up to keep cool, and i Want to shave it off and its just my head, not all over my whole body. 
I shave my cat and have no qualms about it whatsoever. Like i said, if i had a double coated breed (for unforseen reasons) i would have no trouble shaving them either. My dog does not live outside anyways.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Some matting transformations I've worked on.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Some matting transformations I've worked on.
> 
> View attachment 9111
> View attachment 9112
> ...


Wow what a differece! They look great! I hate seeing matted dogs - breaks my heart.


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## Mister (Sep 10, 2008)

Yup people can be morons and if you would only BRUSH your dog then it would be just fine. But no they want to shave it down so its easier on them. Had a chow chow get shaved with a #7 the other day....it was almost totally undercoat matted but some good long brushing would of fixed that but people are lazya nd say "oh my dog doesnt like to be brushed", its bs! They are just too lazy to sit down and take the time it takes to brush a dog. We understand because we have Poodles and they naturally require more effort to keep them looking nice. Ugh, ok im done!


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## Birdie (Jun 28, 2009)

I don't think shaving double coated breeds is all that bad up to a point. A chi? Unnecessary, but they have such short hair it doesn't do much except expose their skin to the sun. A BC or a golden? Maybe, if you don't want to bother brushing (which is still a better option). Poms? No! I HATE seeing shaved poms. Their fur is way more significant in temp regulation than chihuahuas or other short haired dogs, though Lion trims are a lesser evil. Same with Malamutes, Huskies, Pyrs, Newfs, Chows, etc. It's just stupid. Why on earth would you get a Pyr or a Newf if you're just going to shave it? Part of caring for them is caring for their coat! It's lazy, and it makes me mad. But seeing shaved short haired dogs, I think it's silly, but if the owner isn't going to brush them out as much as they should, shaving could really make the dog feel better.


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## Reesmom (Feb 4, 2010)

This poor poodle came in the other day. The owner had missed 3 appts with me already. She comes in and says can you leave him about an inch. 

Ummmmmm......NO!!!!!!! :scared:

BTW I did tried a new wet shaving technique I just heard about. Saved a lot of time, and not near as much stress on the dogs skin.


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## Raena (Sep 20, 2009)

Don't you juct love that?? The doodles owner wanted me to leave him longer too, but thankfully he was chill about shaving him, some people freak. ive even had a few walk out! (just to be shaved down elsewhere Muahahaha!) I must admit, i think the doodle is going through his coat change, he is about a year old and the last time i did him he was pretty matt free.... not to make excuses for that cause there are none.. Have any of you guys noticed that "doodle breeders" (blah, i hate those words!!!!) tell new puppy owners that they don't need much maintenice? I keep hearing that "the breeder told me not to have him cut down, or bathed, or that he doesnt need to be groomed but every 4-6 months" Well we all know that is bull shihtaki!! its so frusterating!!! grrrrr.....


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## Reesmom (Feb 4, 2010)

I get that alot. I get it from my family, too. My aunt and uncle had a golden and when she passed they were looking for another dog. Of course I recommended a spoo for obvious reasons. I go down there last christmas and they have a "Teddy Bear Golden Doodle"??? She is cute, but now they want me to teach them how to groom her. They tell me we don't have to brush her at all, while I'm looking at a dog with 4 inches of hair. The breeder said we would never have to.:scared:So when I looked skeptical they asked my advice, so I told them.

I went down a few weeks ago and she now has about 7 inches of hair and is starting coat change. They still say she's not matted and we never brush her. I get the poodle comb and show them exactly how matted she is. She is now cut short. :fish:

It aggravates me enough with my clients, but I get pretty irritated when my family asks me questions and the acts like I don't know what I'm talking about!!!!:rolffleyes:


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## Reesmom (Feb 4, 2010)

Oh and when I explained coat change to them, they want to know if I can tell them what the dogs coat will be like afterwards. I say no I have no idea. They say "but can't you tell us what this breeds coat is like as an adult?..." Ummm...It's not a breed so no I can't. 
They say "but can't you just make a prediction?" 
No, not really!!!! IT'S NOT A BREED!!!!!! So it's anybody's guess.:fish:


Oh, sorry way too much venting.


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## Raena (Sep 20, 2009)

Vent away!! Im just glad im not the only one! Im so sick of hearing "well you know (insert breed here)-oddles don't shead right!?!?!?!" i think my brain is going to explode.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

What I love is how on the Doodle boards the owners scream about the horrible groomers who shaved their dog!


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## Rocketagility (Apr 27, 2010)

I would say a coat on a dog prevents sun burn also, as dogs do get sun burn if left in the sun too long.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Rocketagility said:


> I would say a coat on a dog prevents sun burn also, as dogs do get sun burn if left in the sun too long.


Yes, but I have only ever seen sunburning on body parts that are shaved with something like a #40 blade. Trust me, the sun in Colorado at altitude is brutal and the dogs and I are out in it all the time (I've gottn tan through thinner cotten shirts!). 

I've never seen sunburning on a dog that was clipped with a #7 or even #10 blade and this is way shorter than most people take their dogs down.


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## puppylove (Aug 9, 2009)

I had an Aussie mix about 10 years ago that was allergic to flea bites. No fleas here in Arizona but a trip to the beaches of San Diego did him in. He ended up losing a very large patch of hair on his back. His skin was pure flawless white. Before I realized it, he was very sunburned. After it healed - there was some peeling - it was very freckled. This is what happens to sun damaged skin. I put sunscreen on him a couple of times a day until his hair grew back.

I would never clip a dog down to where his skin was exposed. Arizona has a very high rate of skin cancer.


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## spoowhisperer (Apr 26, 2010)

Really nice job turning this poodle into a cute, more comfortable dog. You must have to bite your tounge so often when people bring their dogs in like this.


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## Poodle_Lvr (Apr 27, 2010)

It horrifies me that people get dogs that need daily grooming but are either too lazy or ignorant to keep the dog happy and matt free! I have had several people ask my opnion on what dog they should get and I stress to them research every aspect of the breeds personality traits and grooming requirement. As far as I am concerned if you are not willing or able to care for the dog properly in EVERY aspect don't bother getting one!


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## puppylove (Aug 9, 2009)

People get so caught up in the no-shedding aspect (I admit I sure did) and never realize there is a HUGE cost for it. Non-shedding dogs are great for a clean home, allergies, getting to work without looking like you've never done laundry. But they just have to be groomed far more extensively and often than shedders. I would suggest to first time dog owners (or even experienced ones considering a new breed) that the nonshedding issue be way down on the list of desirable traits, unless they are absolutely aware of the cost in both time and money.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

*One reason for clipping a shedder....*

There ARE other reasons for clipping a shedding breed, other than sheer laziness.

I have a Min Poodle now ... rest assured, he goes to his pal the groomer every 4-6 weeks (delays are only ever because SHE is super busy), but had a Golden 10 years ago. 

This was before effective tick treatments were available, just those rubbish tick collars, and I used to get my Golden clipped every spring just so I could find the horrid little critters on him. He had a very thick coat; when it was clipped down he ended up with a plush velvety coat, no danger of sunburn. And given that he was in any available body of water any chance he got, I wasn't that worried about overheating. 

He always went to the local vocational school for the budding groomers to practice on. Came out sometimes looking a bit goofy, especially if they tried to get fancy with his ears or tail, but I figured he would get over the embarrassment, as it grew back pretty quickly.


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