# Lethargic girl



## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

You need to get her back to the vet.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

Yes, make a vet appointment ASAP. Today, if possible. This doesn't sound like a strained muscle - it sounds like your dog is quite sick.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

There have been several dogs on here who have shown similar symptoms with Addisons, and become very ill. I would not run any risks - get a vet appointment as soon as you can, and ask if it is a possibility.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

She can have an absess, any dramatic change in behavior warrants a trip to the vet


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

I would get her to the vet immediately. Hoping she's okay...


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Systemic infection can show no visible symptoms in a dog except elevated temperature and since a dogs body temperature is not as controlled or low as that of a human this might go unnoticed. Systemic infection can cause rapid death.
Eric


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I'm think you should have given her the antibiotic. Now it's time to bring her back to the vet ASAP.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Gosh! I totally agree with the others. I hope the vet got you in today. Let us know...keeping my fingers crossed. This does not sound good.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

*got her to vet today*

First, I want to thank all of you for your kind words.
Princess went to the vet this afternoon. They ran some blood tests, a urinalysis, and a heart worm test. The urinalysis was normal and the heart worm test showed no issues. Her heart rate was only 70 bpm which the doctor commented that was low. They gave her some IV fluids, only 300 ml and the blood tests results will come in tomorrow. Her temperature was 100.2 She did eat normally this evening but still seems lethargic. I'm still worried about her. I didn't think to ask about Addison's but will tomorrow. If there are other questions that seem pertinent please let me know. I'm 60 years old and treasure my girls more than I ever thought I would. I had dogs as a boy, but for 30 odd years hadn't any pets. Now as an older man, I have two 6 year old standards. They are a real joy, and brighten each day. I'm so thankful for the support offered by this group.
I sincerely hope I can reciprocate.
Best regards,
John Roman
ps: as I sit here writing this I notice she's panting. Taking short breaths as if she's been running.
All she's been doing is laying on the couch. Poor little girl


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Dog Addison Disease Symptoms - Addison Disease in Dogs | petMD

Don't forget to ask the vet about testing for this. It seems pretty darn common in standard Poodles. Several on this forum have it. It's scary but usually very manageable if caught early. Some of the symptoms you describe remind me of it...the lethargy, the low temperature, lack of appetite etc. So do push the issue. If this vet doesn't check for it, I'd get a 2nd opinion pronto. It does seem to be quite treatable in most cases (I think) so don't worry too much. Sending my very best wishes for some quick answers and successful treatment whatever it turns out to be. I know how horrible it feels when our babies are sick.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

I am just checking in...was worried about your girl. Glad to hear of the vet visit today, but very concerned about the panting you are reporting. I might consider an immediate visit to a 24 hour emergency clinic if she continues to pant tonight or gets any worse. That is not a good symptom. don't want to alarm you, but that is a real big sign of distress. 

I'll send prayers your way and hope for a fast resolution to this issue.

Viking Queen

P.S. I am a single mom of a senior Spoo and she is my only child, no human ones either. So, I do know how much joy and comfort your two give to you. Take Care.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Glad you took Princess to the vet and hope they can figure out what's happening with your girl. Addison's is not something vets see that often, so testing for it may not occur to them unless you push. Let us know how she's doing. It is so scary when they are sick. Healing thoughts your way for HRH.


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

How is she doing? Panting like that is a sign of pain. 
Hugs to you and waiting on an update!


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

*update*

Hello everyone,
My girl Princess is still not doing well. The panting has stopped but she is clearly not herself. I'm anxious to get blood work results which should be available later today. Pending those results I'm thinking of having the ACTH response test done on both my girls. Can't tell you how nice it is to have this forum to chat with. It makes a huge difference.
I'll post more when test results are in.
Regards,
Jcris
ps: a new symptom has emerged. She is jerking randomly but not too often. Almost as if something
is causing pain intermittently. This is different than something dream related. Poor girl. I'm just hoping for a resolution and loving on her to help her be more comfortable


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

It really does sound like Addison's. Praying you will get the diagnosis soon so she can be treated properly. Thanks for keeping us updated. Please give some extra love to your girl for me.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

That jerking could be some kind of seizure. I'm very worried. Hope the vet gets some answers soon. Lots of get well wishes coming your way. (((hugs)))


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Have you called your vet and told them these new symptoms? Please don't wait for the vet to call you! They do not know that things have progressed unless you tell them, and they might not get around to calling you until later. Please please please call your vet, and get her back in today!!!!


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

*thanks*

I'm calling now. Princess just winced at me touching her. The slightest touch.
She did this yesterday also but I could not get her to repeat it so I could confirm the area that was bothering her.
calling now,
Jcris

just called, doctor is in surgery and can't talk till later. frustrating!
For now I'll just keep a close eye on her


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

I would just bring her in without waiting for the call. This is an emergency !


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

*update*

I'm hesitant to take her back in as I think the blood work may reveal something and perhaps indicate further tests. She did eat this morning. She did pee but hasn't drank anything. I've not changed up anything in her diet. I'm just trying to be consistent in amount of kibble. It's almost 11 am now, hopefully the doctor will call soon and I'll bring her in immediately pending that conversation.
Jcris
ps my other girl, Belle seems fine


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I'd be suspecting Addison's. I'd have the vet run an ACTH stim test today.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Sending prayers your way.

Viking Queen and the Lovely Miss Iris


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Watching and waiting here with you from the UK. It is good that she is eating - have you tried unsalted chicken broth to keep her drinking? Simmer a skinless chicken breast in a pint or two of water, and offer her the cooled broth. Very much hoping for good news soon, and sending hugs to both of you.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

*update*

Good idea. I have been using some beef broth to make her kibble more appealing. I just warm it up and mix it in to form a gravy of sorts. 
Jcris
Her twitching/jerking seems to come and go.
Still waiting on call from doctor


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I think if it were me, I'd be calling that vet right now...not waiting for them to call. And tell them my suspicion of Addisons and_ tell_ them that you're bringing her in now if they need to draw more blood for that test, the ACTH. This does not sound like something to wait too long with. It need action now imho. It can be really serious if not dealt with in a timely manner. I hope you get after them and tell them your worries. Don't wait for them to call you. Maybe the results of the blood tests the vet took aren't ready yet. But I'd most certainly be on this like white on rice. Good luck. I'm very worried for you.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

*update*

Hello everyone,
Well the blood tests all show in the normal range which is a big relief. At my request the doctor added a cortisol test. I asked about the ACHT stim test and she said that it may be indicated if the cortisol level is off. Princess seems better this afternoon. More active , drinking water and eating normally. She is scheduled for a follow up this Monday. I'll be watching closely as I'm skeptical that she is out of the woods. Pending her exam Monday they may do some abdominal x-rays. She still seems a bit lethargic and is sleeping more than normal. I don't intend to exercise them anytime soon. Poor Belle was staring at the field where I take them as we drove by. She barked at me as if to say "let's play". For now it's great to see her feeling just a bit better. 
Thanks so much for all the help,
Best regards,
Jcris
ps: I'm cognizant of the on/off nature of Addison's so will be watching carefully


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I am so glad to hear that she is feeling better - Let's hope it was just one of those things that come and go, but it's good that both you and the vet are watching her so closely, just in case.


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Been reading this thread intensely. I feel for both of you. Praying for you that Princess feels better this weekend. Love and gentle hugs to your precious girl. I'm so sorry you're going through this. :-(


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

Sorry I am so late coming on to this thread. Having a dog that is ten years old and who has always tested out as borderline for Addisons... I think your dog's symptoms are very much indicative of Addison's. For her well-being make sure that you have the phone number of your vet, and an emergency vet hospital with you at all times. If you ever have to board your dog, warn them that she may have a health crisis and tell them how to handle it. Keep a copy of her health records with you if you travel with her. You might talk to your vet and ask for further Addison's testing. I had my dog tested every six months for several years because he was only six months old when he had his first low result. I know there was one test that involved an all day hospital stay with multiple blood draws. The rest were just simple one time draws. Best of luck with your poodle.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Just a note to let you know I'm thinking/praying for you and your lovely girls. I hope you can get this all sorted out soon. 

Hang in there!


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Good to hear Princess is feeling a bit better. Hope there is some resolution to the mystery soon. Healing prayers from Houston.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I am frantic when one of mine are sick, I had one to the vets 3 times in one day, in the end she had hypetitus (not spelled correctly) and she was in bad shape. I never wait on a vet to call, they were paid each trip so I want attention. So sorry for your baby


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Hope you are all having a better day today.


Viking Queen


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## Nicofreako (Aug 19, 2013)

Checking in on your precious girl. I hope you are finding answers. Sending prayers and vibes for healing.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

How is Princess today? I hope she continues to improve.


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Yes, I want to know too how Princess is doing. It's Sunday morning here. Hope to see an update soon.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

*Update*

Hello,
My girl Princess is seemingly much better although I continue to watch closely.
She is eating and drinking normally and getting back to her loving self. I took them yesterday to the park. The rain had subsided and I thought it might be OK
to run them a bit. Princess wasn't as active as Belle which is unusual. Both of them got in the lake, though Princess wasn't running as much. She's usually the first one to take off after the ball and always out sprints Belle. Not so much yesterday but she has been ill. I'm not convinced these symptoms won't recur. 
But the storm has passed for now. The cortisol test should be available tomorrow so I'll see if that sheds any light. I'm still suspicious about Addison's as a culprit. Sadly that is the type of on/off malady that may be difficult to pinpoint in early stages. Vets seem reluctant to go there although it is fairly common with standards. The girls are both due for some vaccinations and Princess needs her teeth cleaned but I'm waiting for Princess to improve further before any other healthcare. Thanks so very much for your concern
Best regards,
Jcris


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

So happy to hear she is doing better!!!

Were it me, I would insist on titers before any vaccines, especially with possible Addisons lurking. 

Praying for continued improvement!


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

titers?


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Yes, A titer is a blood test that shows how much immunity the dog has. Recent studies have shown that the distemper and parvo immunity after original puppy series can remain for the life of the dog. Many protocols, including many vet schools, now recommend vaccines every three years, unless titers show it is not needed. Often times, titers show immunity for years after a vaccine is given.

Vets tend to have the attitude that it is cheaper and easier to just vaccinate. We WAY over vaccinate in this country. This can compromise the immune system and cause so many other problems.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

*Titers testing*

Wow, I had no idea. I do agree that Vets tend to over vaccinate as well as medicate. Do you have some idea as to cost? Princess is seeing the Vet tomorrow morning so I'll definitely ask
Thanks,
Jcris


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Some vets way over charge for it. It should I believe be around $80.00. If your vet wants much more, you can pay to have him draw the blood and then send it your self to Dr. Dodds in Southern California. Just google "Hemopet".

My amounts could be way off. Somewhere on the hemopet site I believe they list prices.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

Great! I'll ask tomorrow


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

You have just been given some very wise advice with regard to titers. I have titers done on Iris as she does have a bit of an auto immune issue as well as the fact that she is nearly 14 yrs old and I don't want to overload her system at her advanced age.

I am so glad o hear that Princess is doing much better. I will keep her in my thoughts and prayers.

Viking Queen


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## West U (Jul 30, 2014)

Your girl is a middle aged adult. You know her best. Panting is not a positive sign. Do not want to cause more alarm, but you already know she is not acting normal.  You already know you have to manage the docs / vets as some of how they proceed is best guess on their part.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

jcris said:


> Hello,
> My girl Princess is seemingly much better although I continue to watch closely.
> She is eating and drinking normally and getting back to her loving self. I took them yesterday to the park. The rain had subsided and I thought it might be OK
> to run them a bit. Princess wasn't as active as Belle which is unusual. Both of them got in the lake, though Princess wasn't running as much. She's usually the first one to take off after the ball and always out sprints Belle. Not so much yesterday but she has been ill. I'm not convinced these symptoms won't recur.
> ...


Yes!!! I would not vaccinate Princess or put her under anesthesia until you rule out Addison's! I really think you should do an ACTH stim test...is there a reason your vet hasn't done this yet? It cannot hurt her and it will give you the answer as to whether she has AD or not.

As to titers, Dr. Schultz at U of W runs them for $25. All you have to do is have your vet draw the blood for you and mail it (regular mail! does not need to be on ice) and you include a $25 check for Schultz. My vet charges about $15 for blood draw and postage. So the total cost ends up being around $40. If you want to PM me, I can give you my email address and I can send you the information from Dr. Schultz' office on the blood titers.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

*Update*

Hello everyone,
Saw the Vet this morning. The cortisol test indicated low but not out of normal range. Her electrolyte level is within range. She consults with 2 other doctors in the office and is only recommending a possible ultrasound ($240) at this time. She felt both titers and the ACTH stim test were not necessary given her lab results. Princess has had some sensitivity in the abdomen area but nothing I could detect and with any consistency. The doc also commented that Princess seemed to have some sensitivity along her spine/back. It is possible she has sustained some sort of strain during exercise. Then both run hard and love the lake. I also asked about the lake water being at issue. Perhaps a toxin of some kind was ingested. She thought at this time of year that was not likely an issue. 
So, I've decided not to persue further treatment at this time. Though I will continue to watch closely. Should symptoms recur I'll probably take her a to
a specialist. Their vaccinations are due and I'm still on the fence. Being in a new area where heart worm , mosquitoes and ticks are more of an issue I'm inclined to vaccinate. The titers testing would be about $150 each, very pricey. An office visit is $47. Not sure about the vaccine costs, I"ll call and ask. It is so difficult to determine what is best when dealing with doctors, for myself or my girls. Ultimately, it seems, it's a leap of faith, or just plain luck. Good or bad. It is of course a learning process. It is frustrating though when it seems you know more than the doctor, lol. We've all heard the phrase " a little knowledge is dangerous". So it appears I'm becoming dangerous, haha. 
My best to all,
Jcris


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Re: Titers.....my vet charges $150 for rabies and distemper/parvo titers. That is about the same price as the titers done by the hemopet lab. You get blood drawn at your vet and send it in to hemopet and they run the titers and you get a report. Sounds like your vet is about twice that price and not very receptive to doing his. My girl has an autoimmune problem, discoid lupus, so I have titers done every 3 years and we haven't had to revaccinate for years and years because according to the titers tests her immunity levels are excellent. We avoid over vaccinating and causing a flare up of her discoid lupus. She is nearly 14 years old and I think this is a good route for us to go. I am very fortunate to have a vet who is all about not over vaccinating. Here is a link for hemo pet. https://labordatenbank.com/cake/hemopet/samples/hemopet_form

With regard to Princess having possibly pulled something in her back. . .1 year ago Iris fell on ice and pulled her back, not moving well, stiff neck, not eating well, clearly in pain. My dear friend who is also my chiropractor, came to the house and did a quick little 5 minute session on her, adjusting a spot on her spine which was very sore to the touch. Immediately,she was bouncing around like a puppy with no more pain. I did do some warm packs on her back 2x a day for a couple of days and all was back to normal. If you have faith in chiro care you might find a doggie chiropractor. We have several here in town who treat just animals. Just a friendly suggestion. It sure worked well for us. My vet suggests chiro care in some cases and also uses an animal accupuncturist for issues like this. We have a school of veterinary medicine in my town and they teach accupuncture to veterinarians in addition to their regular course of study. 

Hope Princess contnues to recover. If you meet too much resistance from your vets office on exploring other treatments then I suggest finding a new Doc. There ar plenty of excellents vets out there. I have changed vets years ago for similar resistance to my requests and for exorbitant fees as well. Have had a fabulous vet for 14 yrs now and thank goodness I found him years ago.

Good luck, Viking Queen


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Boy my vet has a totally different philosophy than yours. She has titered swizzle Because she has seen reactions from vaccines especially with small dogs like toy poodles. I know you have a spoo but I urge you to consider if you are giving vaccines have them given one shot at a time with the break a few weeks in between. My vet does not charge extra for this cause it only takes a minute to give a shot and she feels it's much better to prevent reactions from vaccines. Tighter don't need to cost that if you send them out to the places mentioned by others. I did not send mine out and they were far less than the price you're getting quoted but I am in Connecticut I think it was $80.00. If it were a strain I think you should be able to reproduce it by touching in the sore spots. What concerns me most is that your dog was in pain and this dragged out. Are you comfortable continuing with your current vet?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

jcris said:


> Hello everyone,
> Saw the Vet this morning. The cortisol test indicated low but not out of normal range. Her electrolyte level is within range. She consults with 2 other doctors in the office and is only recommending a possible ultrasound ($240) at this time. She felt both titers and the ACTH stim test were not necessary given her lab results. Princess has had some sensitivity in the abdomen area but nothing I could detect and with any consistency. The doc also commented that Princess seemed to have some sensitivity along her spine/back. It is possible she has sustained some sort of strain during exercise. Then both run hard and love the lake. I also asked about the lake water being at issue. Perhaps a toxin of some kind was ingested. She thought at this time of year that was not likely an issue.
> So, I've decided not to persue further treatment at this time. Though I will continue to watch closely. Should symptoms recur I'll probably take her a to
> a specialist. Their vaccinations are due and I'm still on the fence. Being in a new area where heart worm , mosquitoes and ticks are more of an issue I'm inclined to vaccinate. The titers testing would be about $150 each, very pricey. An office visit is $47. Not sure about the vaccine costs, I"ll call and ask. It is so difficult to determine what is best when dealing with doctors, for myself or my girls. Ultimately, it seems, it's a leap of faith, or just plain luck. Good or bad. It is of course a learning process. It is frustrating though when it seems you know more than the doctor, lol. We've all heard the phrase " a little knowledge is dangerous". So it appears I'm becoming dangerous, haha.
> ...


What do heartworm, mosquitos and ticks have to do with vaccination? Also, did you read my above post about how you can affordably run a titer test? Again, you can do it for about $40 ($25 test, cost of blood draw, plus postage). Using your own vet. You don't need to pay $150 through your vet's lab. You can request that your vet simply draw the blood and send it instead to Dr. Schultz. He charges.....$25. If you send me a PM with your email address, I can forward you Dr. Ronald Schultz titer testing information. Dr. Schultz is THE leading vaccine researcher/immunology specialist in dogs. Your vet would bow down to him!


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

*Millie*

Well not much I'd imagine. I was just trying to put as much information in the post as I could. Perhaps I should post those things in another area of the forums.
Jcris


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Be very careful with vaccinations. If you feel you must, split them up. 
I'd be more concerned with fleas, ticks and heartworm than vaccines currently. I live in an area where fleas are so numerous, they're deadly, heartworms are very prevalent here, too. 
Research what diseases and parasites are common where you are now and go from there. Best wishes! 

Sent from my LGL34C using Tapatalk


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

*Thanks*

That's good advise. I'm new to this area and I'm only just beginning to figure out what is appropriate. 
Thank you .
Jcris


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

jcris said:


> Well not much I'd imagine. I was just trying to put as much information in the post as I could. Perhaps I should post those things in another area of the forums.
> Jcris


No worries! You said you were inclined to vaccinate since fleas, ticks and heartworm were an issue, and I was pointing out that vaccinating doesn't apply to those things.  You'd need to address them with flea, tick & heartworm meds. I.e.: I wouldn't make a decision to revaccinate out of concern for fleas/ticks/heartworm.


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