# Argh...leash-pulling



## AgilityIG (Feb 8, 2009)

The best suggestion I can give is to never move forward if she is pulling. Basically it comes down to her having to choose to put slack in the leash in order to move forward toward the object or area of her desire. Have a lot of treats and a clicker (buy LOTS of clickers and keep them everywhere :biggrin ready to use when she chooses correctly. You may only make it a few yards away from the house the first few times and it will take a while for her to get it, but it does work. Hope that makes sense.


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

yup, I agree with AgilityIg! BUT you have to choose if you have the time and commitment to doing it this way, FOREVER, never letting her away with pulling on a flat collar EVER. Or if you think that sometimes there may be times where you are simply trying to get from A to B, and still can't find the gentle leader so just decide to let her pull 'just this once' so you can get to where you're all trying to get to. If there is the chance of this, then don't even try and start; you'll only shoot yourself in the foot BIG TIME.


You can however still let her try to pull with the gentle leader for those times when you have to get from A to B, so it's not all 'bad', it's just she has to know (and she can only know by your total consistency) that when she's wearing the flat collar, the lead MUST BE LOOSE to get ANYWHERE. And by 'loose', I mean the clip must be hanging vertical. The moment that clip starts lifting to the side, she's taking up the slack and in an instant she'll be pulling.


So, consistency consistency consistency! There is no. other. way. You HAVE to be consistent. I know I'm drilling it in, but it urks me no end the number of people who complain about their dog that pulls and they say the method doesn't work. The method works, the inconsistency doesn't!


So initially if you want to do this, then you need a time limit, not a destination. A 20 min walk at first might get you to the gate. If you're lucky. Don't try to GET anywhere, or you'll end up giving in to her pulling just to get there. The moment she gets away with pulling to get somewhere, she'll do it again; and try harder to make sure it works again.


Try this link: 15. Leash
it's long, but then it's a long behaviour to go through the steps too! It's a good read though.



Or, if time is an issue then flag it. Go back to the gentle leader and worry about it when you have the time to put into it.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Absolutely agree! You may find a leash that ties around your waist helpful to resist the urge to pull back. If you do see the leash even beginning to tighten, a quick change of direction can do the trick. And be prepared to keep up a happy voiced running commentary, and have LOTS of treats. Walking with you has got to be more rewardling than powering ahead to sniff and see the world. Is there anywhere you can combine a very short leash walk with lots of off-leash exercise? I found being insistent on good behaviour from the car until we were into the field worked wonders with mine - it is only a few hundred yards, but has been enough to get across the message Loose Leash = Progress, Tight Leash = Stop, and back to the beginning, with the huge reward of running in the field when they eventually get it right.

She has had a couple of years to learn pulling gets her where she wants to be, so it will take patience to convince her there is a better way.


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## AgilityIG (Feb 8, 2009)

FD is right - I neglected to mention - this IS a commitment. Think of it - instead of training - more like a lifestyle change :lol:


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

Thank you!! I hadn't thought of just not going if she pulls. Right now I have no off-leash exercise...still working on firming up the 'recall' before we head to the dog park. She's close, though. 

FWIW, I don't pull back, just keep firm, and she doesn't get her way...well really. I lead the walks and make her sit often, she doesn't lead them, but you're totally right in that the walks don't stop if she pulls. We will make this work!

Where do I buy a clicker? Do big box pet places have them? We got it from the trainer. 

Also, when you clicker train...is the goal eventually to drop the treats and then the clicks and just have the 'good boy/girl?' or where are you headed with it? 

Thank you for the link. I will be reading that!!


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## AgilityIG (Feb 8, 2009)

You can get clickers at PetCo or PetSmart. Just buy a handful of them - I have them in my car, my jackets, my dog bag, my training area, the dog's cupboard, at my computer desk, etc... They are handy to have around - you don't want to have to go searching for one. 

The goal is to drop the click. I use the clicker to shape the behavior until it is something that I really like and the dog is responding to a verbal or physical cue (with treat or toy rewards). I would not say your treats will be gone forever - I always carry treats on a walk to reward good behavior. You would not go to work for free out of the goodness of your heart, right? Think of your dog like an employee - a "paycheck" is appreaciated and they will work a little harder for that random paycheck.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

The rule is Click = Reward, so if you click you must reward! At first you will be clicking/rewarding even an approximation of what you want - a microsecond of loose leash - gradually building up to a click every 10, 20, 30 yards. Start training somewhere where there are few distractions, and remember that you will need to go back to more frequent rewards each time you move on to a more distracting environment.


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

I guess what I am wondering is if we'll be stuck clicking and treating forever?

The trainer had said the clicker was a 'bridge' to be able to lengthen the time until the treat (eventually - in puppy it was very fast click-treat...).

So when you take your dog out...years later - you are still clicking and treating? Or just treating? Or just clicking? Or?

Thanks for your patience with me!


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## AgilityIG (Feb 8, 2009)

No - you won't be clicking/treating forever. Pretty soon she'll get the idea that the "reward" for not pulling is the ability to move forward towards wherever you are going.


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

You arent alone  I am still working on this with Hoolie... my friend has finally got it through MY thick head that I cant ,even once for convenience, take him out on a collar for a walk while not training. Now I take him on the gentle leader ( to the dog park sometimes,or just to a trail) and after we get a bit of his energy out I switch and do a training session with his regular martingale collar and end the session and back to the gentle leader. I have problems with him not being food or toy motivated when he is overwhelmed by his environment. this whole method of training is new to me.. I think it is more my lack of knowledge and technique than the dog


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

The reward is NEVER dropped from the click. The click must ALLLWWAYYYSSS be followed with a reward. Ok, you can occasionally get away with missing a reward later on in training, but you certainly don't make a habit of it. The click will loose it's power if you drop the rewards consistently.

The idea of the click is that it simply says "YES!!! That very MOMENT was what I wanted you to do! well done! Now you get a reward for it!!" the click is NOT the reward, and is never to be used as a reward. It is the bridge; bridging the time between the correct moment that they did what you wanted, and the moment they get their reward for it.


I still use my clicker to *train* a new behaviour, or to 'solidify' a behaviour that is getting a bit fuzzy, but for every day, around the house stuff I don't have a clicker glued to me and we make do with a simple 'yes!' or something. But nothing beats bringing the clicker out to really get a good solid training session! 

But yes, when a behaviour is well learned you can drop the clicker out of use (though if you do click, you still treat!) but sometimes you might just treat without a click if she's walking along nicely with you. It still pays to reward her when she's doing well, even if it's a pat on the head as she's walking along, and the odd treat and 'good girl!' etc, even if you've dropped the use of the clicker.


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## Hank (Feb 8, 2011)

I have a totally different approach that doesn't involve treats or clickers. I used a standard collar with a 3 ft lead. Every time Hank would pull on the leash I would give a quick snap/jerk back and say "HEEL". As soon as he would come back and walk beside me I would say "good" in a soft voice. It didn't take long and he soon realized what he was supposed to do. I can now walk him without a leash in most places.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Trouble with that method, Hank, is that it has been shown to cause long term physical damage to the dogs neck and throat in a large number of cases. Hence the search for less forceful training approaches.


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## Hank (Feb 8, 2011)

I can understand that. However I am not using a "choker" collar and I'm not hurting him in any way. In fact, my quick tug on the leash is less forceful and puts less pressure on the neck than when Hank was pulling on the leash with his own weight and strength. I think there are many ways to effectively train and one thing doesn't always work for every owner/dog. Anyway, to each their own. I just prefer results without a clicker and treats.


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## star (Feb 20, 2011)

I agree don't walk if they pull and changing direction gets their attention on you. I also find with Lola giving her a stick or the leash to hold in her mouth keeps her walking with me almost like she has a job to do. I make a click sound with my mouth, I have a clicker but find it a pain. In a pinch you can use a juice jar lid as a clicker!


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

Okay...so I have the clicker and we tried this. I need some baby steps. What should this "look" like?

Here is what happened: I put the leash on and out we went. She pulled ahead enough that it got tight (Not like dragging me down the street, but the leash didn't have slack in it). I stopped. She came back and sat down. I said "let's go," and we went another two steps...leash got taut. I stopped, she either stopped and sat or came back and sat. A couple of times we got maybe 4-5 feet, I did a "watch me!" and if she did I clicked/treated or if she didn't get the leash taut (I think this happened once), I clicked treated. I just don't see what I am doing as getting a message to her about it, though. It all seems very awkward like she's just thinking "Mom is nuts today...does she want to walk or what?" I'm also thinking that if I click/treat when she returns and/or sits it might seem like she's getting praised for that and not for not pulling. Thoughts?

Any suggestions?


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

It sounds like we are having the same problem.. I keep feeling since Hoolie sits when I stop he is thinking it is the sit I want him to do, not the quitting pulling.. I get confused..I have found it a bit easier to turn and go the other way and then start back in the right direction but Im not sure he gets it at all.


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## AgilityIG (Feb 8, 2009)

This is something that takes time and consistancy. It's not going to happen in a few walks. 

Think of it like this: She has a lot of "money" (reward) in the bank for pulling (her reward was that she got to move forward towards her goal). Now you have to put a LOT more "money" in her bank account to balance out and surpass all those deposits she made. It's going to take a while - she's built herself up a nice little savings :biggrin:

Be patient and keep at it!!


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

Feathersprings said:


> It sounds like we are having the same problem.. I keep feeling since Hoolie sits when I stop he is thinking it is the sit I want him to do, not the quitting pulling.. I get confused..I have found it a bit easier to turn and go the other way and then start back in the right direction but Im not sure he gets it at all.


I did that a bit as well...but I felt the same way. 



AgilityIG said:


> This is something that takes time and consistancy. It's not going to happen in a few walks.
> 
> Think of it like this: She has a lot of "money" (reward) in the bank for pulling (her reward was that she got to move forward towards her goal). Now you have to put a LOT more "money" in her bank account to balance out and surpass all those deposits she made. It's going to take a while - she's built herself up a nice little savings :biggrin:
> 
> Be patient and keep at it!!


I agree that it will take a while and I'm willing to do it, of course...I'm just not sure if I am doing it in such a way that I am sending the right message to her?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I personally have a different approach. A prong collar is what taught Millie to walk on a loose leash. She no longer needs a prong collar now that I have trained her with it and weaned her off of it. The clicker method was not as helpful for us because she did not get "loaded" from it. And by "loaded" I mean tail wagging, MAJOR motivation and excitement to do what I ask. The method of "stopping walking" when she pulls did not work either. She just didn't care. The prong helped her learn both casual loose leash walking and formal healing. Finally, lots and lots and lots and lots of treats when she makes eye contact and walks with a loose leash. The key, however, is the correction when she does not. I would run forward and if she lagged she was naturally corrected. I would stop walking and if she didn't pay attention, she was naturally corrected. She learned to always focus on me during our walk and remain at my side. I always carry a bag of treats and praise her for this as well.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

btw, LOVE your new avatar of your gorgeous Cafe/SB Bella!


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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

I too, have a "beast" to walk. The embarrassing part is that my poodle is barely bigger than a toy size! I'm going to have to start completely over. I can't even get out of the door w/out him going absolutely beserk - barking, whining, and pulling with all his might. I'm going to have to go back to opening/closing the door until he's mellowed out. With 4 dogs, it's a royal pain in the you know what! Fonzie's the only one that's a problem in that regard.


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## Camille (Feb 3, 2011)

Hey guys. thought id let you know i read this whole thread and used a lot of the methods. I don't like correcting my dog. I'm more of a build trust and make the dog want to do what your asking in a positive way. I tried umbilical at first. it didn't work very well. I'm so out of shape XD. but Esme is amazing off leash so i tried at the park with treats. Id start with watch me. and start walking with the treat on hand and take a few steps and click and treat, then started taking a bit more steps. then started not showing her the treat as i walked and clicking and giving her a treat, then i added the leash(As she gets real excited when shes on the leash) and restarted the exercise. if she lost focus i would turn around and get her to follow on that side it seemed to help her focus, then would turn around to the direction i wanted her to go. by the end of it she focused and walked the whole way from the park to home. not a super long walk but enough to be a great improvement. If i can do it anyone can. 

Ive been doing 13 hour shifts at work so have been exhausted and am lacking patience. last night and this morning i had to quit training because i was taking it personally and getting frustrated.* It is NOT the dogs fault* that i don't know how to ask her what i want from her. she is smart as a whip. its the other side of the leash that doesn't know how to ask her what she wants XD. Its amazing once the light-bulb flashes and all of a sudden your working together amazingly well!

This is a big deal for me as i want to break her of this as fast as possible as its probably one of her only bad habits that and patience in stay's and we are getting Henry soon, so i want to be able to keep up on Esme's training and work on teaching Henry what he needs to learn and his socialization.


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