# Corn, wheat and tear stains?



## lunamarz_31

Hi Skye,
yes, corn and wheat are common allergens in dogs, that's why the "better" dog food brands specifically exclude them. There are so many good brands without corn/wheat, common favorites are Orijen, Wellness, Nature's Variety, Taste of the Wild, Before Grain, to name a few. Not only do they exclude corn/wheat/soy, they don't contain artificial preservatives and all those bad chemicals.

Speaking of tear stains, I am dealing with the same problem myself. The stains started appearing early this year, and I have changed her water, clean her eyes everyday, take out all treats that contain wheat, her regular food doesn't contain all those 3 anyway, but the stains persist. I don't recall anything I do differently around the time her stains appeared. I notice that her eyes tear more when I have candles and home fragrance on at home. So the stains can be a result of environmental allergy as well. I've been racking my brain but still can't find the culprit.


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## Skye

lunamarz_31 said:


> Hi Skye,
> yes, corn and wheat are common allergens in dogs, that's why the "better" dog food brands specifically exclude them. There are so many good brands without corn/wheat, common favorites are Orijen, Wellness, Nature's Variety, Taste of the Wild, Before Grain, to name a few. Not only do they exclude corn/wheat/soy, they don't contain artificial preservatives and all those bad chemicals.
> 
> Speaking of tear stains, I am dealing with the same problem myself. The stains started appearing early this year, and I have changed her water, clean her eyes everyday, take out all treats that contain wheat, her regular food doesn't contain all those 3 anyway, but the stains persist. I don't recall anything I do differently around the time her stains appeared. I notice that her eyes tear more when I have candles and home fragrance on at home. So the stains can be a result of environmental allergy as well. I've been racking my brain but still can't find the culprit.


I've heard people have had good results with Angel Eyes. I thought I'd try switching the food over gradually first. I also have tons of treats that I will have to switch out, too!


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## partial2poodles

Skye, pitch that Iams out along with every Grocery store treat, Wal-mart biscuit or Big Lots treat. Having 4 white/cream dogs myself, I can tell you that FOOD causes tear stains


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## rubymom

Skye, I'm with P2P! Low grade kibble and treats are usuallly bad news for dogs! (Tear stains, digestive issues, allergies......not to mention poor nutrition!)
Ruby eats Fromm Salmon/veggie, with a little home cooked added. 
She loves it and her eyes never drain!
Good Luck!


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## Chagall's mom

Chagall also does really well on Fromm Four Star, I rotate through all the proteins (salmon, duck, herring, pork, etc.) and give him only grain-free treats. He has no eye staining whatsoever. My brother uses Angel Eyes with great success for one of his dogs, a "Morkie" (mix of a Maltese and a Yorkie). He swears by it. (And yes, I told him he should get a poodle but his family is pretty much a Yorkie bunch, their older dog is one and the little mix they just fell in love with, she is awfully cute.)


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## Skye

It seems worse since I am using BilJac liver treats for training. They are soft and I can break them up; he loves them. What should I use? Cheese? Lunchmeat? Better training treats? 

He was on Iams when we got him. (His foster mom works at a veterinary office.) I didn't want to switch him till we got the housebreaking off to a good start. (We have.) So, I'm ready to start switching him now.


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## Fluffyspoos

Get a high quality kibble (Solid Gold, Orijin, Natural Balance, Wellness, ect.) and use Zukes treats for training. I cut all mine in half, I mean, the WHOLE bag of treats. It's a little time consuming, but they're smaller than BilJac and I like mine even smaller for training. They just need a flavor.

Solid Gold Barking at the Moon at PETCO Our food

Zuke's Mini Naturals Dog Treats at PETCO Our treats

EVO Wild Cravings Grain-Free Baked Dog Treats I also use these


Edit to add, the Solid Gold and Zukes treats are always at my work in stock (PETCO) so I just buy it there. If you have a local Petco you should be able to find it. I have to go to a specialty story for the Evo treats, and I'm almost totally out..


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## lunamarz_31

I second the Zuke's treats. Muffin especially loves the moist and chewy ones, they come in itty-bitty sizes for small dogs, and she totally go nuts over them, the aroma is quite enticing . I buy them at my specialty pet store, but amazon.com sells them too.

Please do not use lunch meat, they contain a very high sodium content


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## lunamarz_31

Skye,
thanks for the Angel Eyes recommendation. Several people have sworn by it in getting rid of stains, but I am somewhat apprehensive in giving antibiotics (the active ingredient in Angel Eyes) unnecessarily. And some have mentioned that as soon as it is stopped, the stains come back, which means it might need to be given continuously. That's a bit too much antibiotics in my opinion.


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## schnauzerpoodle

I third the Zuke's mini. I also cut them in halves and they are wonderful training treats.


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## Skye

Thanks for the Zuke's idea; and the links. I really appreciate it!

re: Angel Eyes; I have heard some people use it for a few months, and never need to use it again?! I don't know; but, I think if the food change doesn't work, it may be worth a try.


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## Karma'sACat

Food definitely plays a part and unfortunately, vets are not always very well educated in nutrition beyond a class or two in vet school, sponsored by one of the big companies. The big companies (Science Diet and Iams are two of the worst offenders) also give free food to vet students. And this is more than just hearsay, I had friends in vet school and was a semester away from starting myself.
Wellness makes a good puppy food, Fromm has great food, Orijen has a good puppy food.
I use Natural Nibbles treat because they are just meat. Welcome to Natural Nibbles!


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## grab

We feed Taste of the Wild, with good results. None of my dogs have had tear staining issues though.

I will say that my male Persian does not have as much eye tears when he eats a grain free kibble (the cats eat Taste of the Wild as well)


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## penny_ann

Penny eats the TOTW and has occasionally tearing but I think it is the lower quality treats she ocasionally gets. She does love the Zukes treats. I need to throw out the lower quality ones. I also use bottled water.


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## fjm

Sophy is on raw/home cooked, but still gets some staining. A daily cleaning with home made eye wash (pinch of borax substitute, 2 tablespoon witch hazel, 2 tablespoon boiled water) works over time for her. I make up a small jar, and chuck any left over after a few days. Angel Eyes is not available in the UK, but there is a non-antibiotic alternative - Angels' Delight - that has had good reviews. Available from Bichon Hotel-


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## JE-UK

Ditto what everyone else has said. Iams is not actually a very good food; they've done a great marketing job by getting vets to sell it, but like many cheap grocery store brands, IAMS uses grains as fillers.

There is a good site (Dog Food Analysis - Reviews of kibble) that does independent reviews of dog foods and their contents.

If you switch to a premium kibble, you'll see smaller poos as well, so another reason to change!


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## lunamarz_31

I think I will try switching out her food, it's one of the few things I haven't tried. Worth giving it a shot.


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## JE-UK

Skye said:


> It seems worse since I am using BilJac liver treats for training. They are soft and I can break them up; he loves them. What should I use? Cheese? Lunchmeat? Better training treats?


There was a thread a while back about homemade treats ... liver cake is dead easy to make, and one batch makes quite a bit of treats for a little dog. Blenderise a pack of chicken livers, chuck in a couple of eggs, add flour (or cooked rice for a stickier version) and a couple of tablespoons of olive oil until thick gloop, bake in a big cookie sheet, slice and freeze. I can do a batch in an hour, while doing other things.

I also use a lot of 'people' food ... cheese, boiled chicken, hot dogs (if I'm being good I boil them first to get rid of the salt), bits of banana.

Dried liver is a good one, and commercially available, but tends to be expensive.

As bad as some of the commercial dog foods are, commercial dog treats seem to be even worse!


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## fjm

I also make my own dog treats - and loose freeze them, so that I can take out small quantities. A batch of liver cake, a couple of poached chicken breasts and a slice or two of whatever I am eating makes a LOT of small treats. I mix them up, so there is always an element of surprise - hence Sophy's soulful look as she wonders just what it is in my hand this time!


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## OverTheTopFarm

*Agree, Agree, and Caution*



lunamarz_31 said:


> Skye,
> thanks for the Angel Eyes recommendation. Several people have sworn by it in getting rid of stains, but I am somewhat apprehensive in giving antibiotics (the active ingredient in Angel Eyes) unnecessarily. And some have mentioned that as soon as it is stopped, the stains come back, which means it might need to be given continuously. That's a bit too much antibiotics in my opinion.


I agree with what everyone is saying regarding ingredients in what is fed to our dogs. Also, if you have a well, or otherwise have water with heavy minerals, that can also contribute.

I must also agree about the concern with Angel Eyes ... I used to breed maltese, and yes it is effective. But never, never, never give it to a dog before it has all of its adult teeth or the adult teeth will come in stained. AND I also stay away from it due to the antibiotic ingredients (which they do not easily disclose).


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## poodleholic

Skye said:


> I've heard people have had good results with Angel Eyes. I thought I'd try switching the food over gradually first. I also have tons of treats that I will have to switch out, too!


Angel Eyes contains an antibiotic, which, IMHO, is a very bad choice to give for tear stains. 

Go the grain-free food route, and in the meantime, add a little apple cider vinegar to the drinking water. Rather than tap water, give bottled distilled water, at least for now. The ACV will change the ph, and frequently will clear up tear staining all on it's own. 

You can also flush the dog's eyes twice a day with sterile saline solution (use for sensitive eyes), which will also lighten current stains.


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## zyrcona

Hi Skye, you don't say how old your puppy is, but poodle puppies do usually have dribbly eyes. Apparently it's because their faces and jaws are still growing and it puts pressure on their tear ducts. The staining on my puppy's face is slowly improving. Recently we visited her parents and auntie, and none of the adult dogs had marks under their eyes, despite having quite overgrown faces.

I've tried a few products that are supposed to get rid of the marks, but they don't seem to work and TBH I think you'd be better spending the money on a good pair of clippers and just keeping the face clipped short until the dog grows out of it.

And yes, I would stay away from food with wheat in. Taste of the Wild was recommended to me by the breeder, and it's a really nice food made from good quality ingredients.


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## Skye

Thanks, this is all very good advice. I forgot that Apple Cider Vinegar is supposed to be good for all kinds of things!

Auggie is 8 months old, and his left eye is much worse than the right. I am going to keep his face shaved clean, I do like that look on him anyway!

Switching over on the foods. It would be great if he outgrows this!


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## Persia

I knew I wanted a white poodle and my concern were those ugly tear stains I have seen ruined a beautiful dog's looks. 

At 6 weeks, Persia started taking Tylan. Supposedly, it is the same as Angel Eyes. 

I wanted her off antibiotics.

Tried dry buttermilk. 1/2 Teaspoon sprinkled on food is all you need. 

Persia never developed tear stains but had a weepy right eye that Tylan didn't cured.

Only a week later, and both her eyes are dry and white. Persia, also has fuzzy face. No need to shave. (But you may want to cut off stained fur)

Buttermilk worked better than Tylan. 
It is a huge tub for about $4, too.

Buttermilk is very acidic and helps control tear production. It is also a good digestive enzyme. I mix it in her yoghurt.

If you have Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar in your pantry. You can use 1/2 TSP as well in yoghurt. 

Switching foods takes time. Persia, ate Eukanuba until she was 12-14 weeks, and didn't develop the stains.
I never gave her all those store bought treats, either, though. 
Read the ingredients and it is some scary stuff!

Beautiful Poodles for All!!!!!


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## fjm

Must try that for Sophy - anyone know where I can buy dried buttermilk in the UK?


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## Skye

Persia said:


> I knew I wanted a white poodle and my concern were those ugly tear stains I have seen ruined a beautiful dog's looks.
> 
> At 6 weeks, Persia started taking Tylan. Supposedly, it is the same as Angel Eyes.
> 
> I wanted her off antibiotics.
> 
> Tried dry buttermilk. 1/2 Teaspoon sprinkled on food is all you need.
> 
> Persia never developed tear stains but had a weepy right eye that Tylan didn't cured.
> 
> Only a week later, and both her eyes are dry and white. Persia, also has fuzzy face. No need to shave. (But you may want to cut off stained fur)
> 
> Buttermilk worked better than Tylan.
> It is a huge tub for about $4, too.
> 
> Buttermilk is very acidic and helps control tear production. It is also a good digestive enzyme. I mix it in her yoghurt.
> 
> If you have Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar in your pantry. You can use 1/2 TSP as well in yoghurt.
> 
> Switching foods takes time. Persia, ate Eukanuba until she was 12-14 weeks, and didn't develop the stains.
> I never gave her all those store bought treats, either, though.
> Read the ingredients and it is some scary stuff!
> 
> Beautiful Poodles for All!!!!!


Now the dried buttermilk is one I've never heard! Definitely going to try that! Thank you!


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## Olie

Foods can affect the eye discharge but genetics also plays a big part - probably more so than food. Some dogs will just have the increased tearing. 

Also I believe there are new studies out there that Angel Eyes is not as huge of a concern as some have thought - Wish I could find the thread Cameo responded to in regards to Angel Eyes.


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## Persia

fjm said:


> Must try that for Sophy - anyone know where I can buy dried buttermilk in the UK?


Tesco!!!!! Love Tesco!!!!!!
(Now, why can they sell cheese plates like that in US?)

Dried Buttermilk is usually in the baking section.
(umm, buttermilk biscuits mixes, etc...don't use this, though,Lol)

Tylan is the antibiotic in Angel Eyes. You can buy just the powder without the fancy brand at the vet's office or feed store.

Mix it with yoghurt, a probiotic, (much better than an antibiotic) or sprinkle on food.

Bragg's ACV works, too. These are acidic components that neutralize tears. 

It's food and both under $4. 
There is nothing to lose but those ugly tear stains.


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## lunamarz_31

Oh my, I think I have found what's the cause of the excessive tearing: *barley.*
First, I switched off Muffin's food completely, and I quickly noticed a reduction in tearing. Tear stains are starting to fade since her hair is not constantly wet. When I compared the ingredients, the main thing that stood out was barley. So with my suspicion in hand, I eliminated every single treat, canned food, and supplement that have barley. It's now been 2-3 weeks since the total elimination, and I definitely notice a difference! Woo hoo! I hope that it's for real, not just a coincidence.

Muffin is now on Organix, it has rice and oats (she's ok with them), but no wheat, barley, corn and soy. She also eats Ziwi Peak, which is grain-free. It came as a surprise since the higher end dog food brands use barley, and is considered a good ingredient. But I just learned that apparently, dogs can also suffer from gluten intolerance. 
There is a good article below:

GLUTEN INTOLERANCE AND YOUR PET

So now, not only I am staying away from corn and soy, but also gluten altogether (barley, wheat, and rye included).
The good news: I can finally stop scratching my head trying to find out the source.
The bad news: Muffin won't be too happy if she knew that she won't be getting any more Zuke's treats. They all have barley.


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## neVar

Another try another brand. 

not just for the staining bu because really now IAMS isn't a great brand. Sure 30 years ago? it was. it was beter then alpo and Ol Roy. 

however we have dramatically better quality foods out. Price although per bag might be higher you feed less. There are many good 'no corn' out there. And many no grain if you want to go that way as well.


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## Skye

lunamarz_31 said:


> Oh my, I think I have found what's the cause of the excessive tearing: *barley.*
> First, I switched off Muffin's food completely, and I quickly noticed a reduction in tearing. Tear stains are starting to fade since her hair is not constantly wet. When I compared the ingredients, the main thing that stood out was barley. So with my suspicion in hand, I eliminated every single treat, canned food, and supplement that have barley. It's now been 2-3 weeks since the total elimination, and I definitely notice a difference! Woo hoo! I hope that it's for real, not just a coincidence.
> 
> Muffin is now on Organix, it has rice and oats (she's ok with them), but no wheat, barley, corn and soy. She also eats Ziwi Peak, which is grain-free. It came as a surprise since the higher end dog food brands use barley, and is considered a good ingredient. But I just learned that apparently, dogs can also suffer from gluten intolerance.
> There is a good article below:
> 
> GLUTEN INTOLERANCE AND YOUR PET
> 
> So now, not only I am staying away from corn and soy, but also gluten altogether (barley, wheat, and rye included).
> The good news: I can finally stop scratching my head trying to find out the source.
> The bad news: Muffin won't be too happy if she knew that she won't be getting any more Zuke's treats. They all have barley.



Very interesting info. Thanks for sharing!


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## georgiapeach

I feed TOTW, and our new rescue, Potsie's eyes are starting to run! They didn't run when he was fed the junk he came with (Pro Plan). Arghhh!!


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## Skye

Skye said:


> Very interesting info. Thanks for sharing!


Wondering if this may be the case with my 2. For several weeks now; a month probably, we are on good food, Dog Lover's Gold with no corn, wheat, soy; Natural Balance L.I.T., and Training Tips treats, and also, Canidae snap-bits. All are free of corn, wheat and soy. None of the treats I use have chicken, although the food does. 

I have given them each a bully stick every few weeks from Pet Supplies Plus.

Getting ready to try the dried buttermilk. Wondering if it is the barley, though? Ug, it's driving me nuts!


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