# RMB advice for TOY poodles needed!



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Mine get half a chicken wing, or a small lamb or pork riblet. For recreational bones, I find lamb spines, hocks and shoulder bones are good - enough bone to keep them chewing, but not so hard that they risk tooth damage. I also give them PlaqueOff every day, and Tropiclean dental gel, and a going over with an e-cloth tooth cleaner!


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

Thank you. :angel: What exactly is the e-cloth tooth cleaner? I am not coming up with it via Google. Also, do you use the seaweed PlaqueOff Plaque OFF for pets - Naturally prevents gum disease, plaque build-up and bad breath WITHOUT brushing or this one?Triple Pet Plaque Off - Fresh Breath for Pets I have been using the seaweed type for four or five months and it may work... but at the same time I also started brushing and feeding RMB so I am not sure where to attribute the improvement. 

I am not sure where to find these particular bones (being a vegetarian, my b-dar is not too good) but I will send my hubby on (another) quest.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

I guess I've been lucky with my guys. I live not too horribly far from a packing house and can get raw beef bones very cheaply and *knock on wood* have had no issues with them so far. I am feeding them to everything from my biggest dog (50+ pounds) to my tiniest foster pups (5 weeks old kelpies). Something I found that goes over really well here is quail. They all love them! They are small and the bones seem to go down well. (Hoppy even steals them before I'm ready to feed them and the feathers don't seem to bother her at all! lol)
I love the quail for them, and I just scored 11 little ones, even though it's a strange time of year to find chicks, and am looking forward to raising some good birds and eggs from them for the dogs and hopefully us as well. They are fairly easy to raise and cute as can be should you be interested in trying that as an alternate food source.

Another treat/snack I found for the dogs (quite by accident) is the frozen rodents I get for the snake. I left a rat out to defrost and one of the dogs decided it was ready so he ate it. Turns out, all of them like those, too. I get those at Petsmart. They're still hairy, though. But, if wolves can eat mice, I don't see why poodles can't eat rats.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I use the seaweed PlaqueOff - like you, it is hard for me to tell exactly which bit of the programme makes the difference, but it was noticeable when I first used it, so I am reluctant to stop! Together with the gel it seems to soften and loosen the gunk enough for me to flick it off with a thumb nail.

The microfibre tooth brush is here: Dog Teeth Cleaning, Microfibre Tooth Cleaner - Lintbells I decided it was just the same as an antibacterial e-cloth, so chopped one up and made a dozen! 

Mine aren't keen on rodents, but they LOVE rabbit. Tilly-cat provides midnight feasts of toung rabbits through the spring and summer ... it took me ages to realise why they were all getting so fat!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

iLife in CT and would bevery surprised if you can't get chicken necks in Jersey. Stop and shop and shop rite carry them. I would ask maybe you are looking in the wrong section. Swizzle is a toy and for bone I find chicken necks are the perfect size and density. They sell packages with just those which I wrap individually and freeze. If the markets around you don't carry the necks go to a good quality pet store. Swizzle has great teeth. The vet comments every time sees him as toys often have issues. Other things that are great chews are dried chicken feet, cow trachea also dried and bullies. Don't give up on raw bones though, nothing like them for teeth.


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks to everyone. Can anyone address the choking issue? Has it happened to your dog? What did she or he choke on? Did the episode lead you to change anything in the raw regime?

I am very appreciative of the suggestions but very leery of ANY bones after the Thanksgiving Eve scare.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I think it is possible that your dog did not really choke but just coughed up a bone. I choked once. I was eating cantelope at a wedding and somehow inhaled it. I could not breathe or cough. I was surrounded by people who just stood there. I self administered the heimlich method using a chair. I don't think your dog was actually choking but swallowed a bigger bite than he could handle and he regurgitated it up without assistance from you. This is actually very common with dogs as they tend to gulp. I would feed the dogs separately as I believe they are much more likely to gulp their food down as they don't want the other dog to get their food. Here is a link on how to tell if a dog is choaking and what to do.
What to Do When Your Dog Is Choking - For Dummies
Here is a link a vet wrote about choking. 

When a dog "chokes," check out its mouth : Visiting Veterinarian : The Martha's Vineyard Times

I can empathize with your anxiety. I brought my dog to the vet because I thought he was choking. He was not eating at the time but made a horrible noise. The vet told me is was a reverse sneeze. I was embarrassed for bring him on an emergency vet visit for a sneeze but I would rather err on the side of caution. I do not give rawhide and I am careful what size balls Swizzle plays with but I am not overly concerned with the raw bones Swizzle eats.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

I get my chicken necks at winn dixie.. in the poultry section with the chicken wings legs and backs.. Yellow styrafoam.. can remember bigwig brand but not free range. Not many packages at any time the most I saw was like 6 and the last time 3. 

My minie will eat a wing like a stick of gum.. chew it, then regurgitates when she takes to much in and starts over till its gone. No issues really, not sure if she is being dainty and not want to get dirty, or she doesnt realized she can hold it down with her paws while she rips pieces lol. But she doesnt use her paws which explains the regurg and rechew action.


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

Those are great links--thanks so much. I can't believe you administered the H maneuver to yourself (or that you had to!). Maybe you are right that my dog didn't really choke -- she didn't stop breathing and the whole incident was over in seconds. 

I think she reverse-sneezes regularly. (She does something and I have been thinking it may be a reverse sneeze.) I did not realize that there could be environmental causes of that, so I am grateful for that info too. 

OK, I am feeling reassured. I will intensify the search for chicken necks!


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## Ruso (Nov 16, 2012)

This is a very interesting subject; I had a whippet before and he ate chicken wings and thighs easily. I started to give him RMB when he was five or six months old. He also ate kibble, and the first thing I gave him raw was a turkey wing. As a total novice to raw, I thought he woluld eat the flesh and leave the bone, and I was first surprised and then horrified when I saw him eating the bones too. :afraid: 
My toy poodle is now three months old; I haven't given him anything raw yet (just chicken liver and breasts boiled). I am thinking in half chicken wing to start (I don't know if there are necks around here) but I don't know if he's too young and I should wait, what do you think?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I know people who wean pups onto raw - I'd try him with a half wing and see how he does.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

You can ask the butcher to order you some. I had to do that and they were happy to do it. Also, I have read it is not even the chewing , but the eating that helps the teeth and you can grind them up and give them to your dogs... My new girl doesn't like raw like my older girl. I have had to encourage her to eat it. She even threw up the hand fed chicken I gave her once. She is doing better, I had given up on her ever eating a turkey neck and she stole Carley's the other day... something about taking it from Carley made it taste so good... she ate every bite. lol


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

I have a toy dog, an Italian Greyhound, and she has eaten raw all her life. She eats whatever the big dogs eat: turkey tails, chicken parts (including drumsticks), pork riblets. I've never had a choking incident with her, but every once in a while she (or one of the other dogs) will try to swallow too large a chunk and gag/hack it back up.

One tip to avoid choking is to be sure the dog is eating a *large* enough piece of meat. The rule of thumb I've heard is that the chunk of meat should be at least as large as the dog's head. That way the dog is forced to gnaw and chew rather than being tempted to swallow large chunks. That's why I would be cautious about chicken necks: they're a good size for swallowing whole. I *do* feed mine (even the IG) chicken necks, and I use them for training, too, but all of my dogs are experienced raw eaters.

Congrats for exploring raw feeding! It's one of the best things you can do for your dog's health. I've fed raw since 2007; all my present dogs have eaten raw their entire lives. Good luck!

--Q


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

I have also read the rule about not giving bones or pieces of meat small enough to swallow (and similarly taking away chews when they get down to 2" or so) -- but I don't get it. If you are giving them a bone to eat (as opposed to recreational bones) won't they just chew it into small pieces and swallow them anyway? Similarly with big pieces of meat?


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

Yes, but since they're chewing off pieces, they'll instinctively chew off pieces the right size to swallow. It's when the chunks are too big to be swallowed whole yet not big enough that the dog realizes they need to tear it a little smaller that the trouble can occur. In a way, this is a habit the dogs get from eating kibble: the food is "ready to eat," no real gnawing or tearing required. Once they get used to eating raw they get used to gnawing / chewing their food more. Or at least that's how it seems to me!

--Q


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

No way could Swizzle eat a whole chicken neck in one gulp but there is no harm in giving him something larger like a drumstick till he gets the hang of it. For Swizzle the neck works out great. He gets some happy chewing time. I give him one about every other day. I feed commercial raw, Aunt Jenni, and if his poops get a little too hard I give him a chicken heart or gizzard. These come packaged together and are very reasonably priced. I wrap them up individually and have them on hand in the freezer. I have heard ground bone has the teeth benefits of a whole bone but I think they would miss out on the mental benefits. Swizzle is always calm and happy after he has a bone. I think it is great you are open to exploring raw for your dogs.


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## Ruso (Nov 16, 2012)

Here at the supermarkets it's easy to find quails (hope it's the right word in english, I looked it up in the dictionary). I fed them to my whippet, just the whole bird (they come clean, without heads) and he loved them. The bones are tiny and very soft; maybe just the drumsticks are a good start option for a toy poodle.


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## KristaLynn (Mar 22, 2012)

Jewel is 9lbs and I give her chicken wings and half turkey necks. My parents cook a lot of turkeys and started saving the necks for Jewel but they're so big I wack them in half before freezing them, yum yum. Ribblets are a good idea, never tried them!

We did have one issue, Jewel swallowed the large end of the chicken wing without breaking up the bone enough and it got stuck. It took her a couple hours to work it back up. I don't worry too much because she's a HUGE DIVA and if I don't hold her RMB for her she won't eat it.


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