# How common is it for...



## kuriooo (Feb 17, 2010)

I visited a breeders' site and was a little surprised to find the dogs in what I would call "a kennel attached to the house." 

By kennel, I mean that the dogs rotated through the house and whelped in the house, but spent "some of their time" in a heated extension to the house that had individual dog runs and allowed the dogs free access to a large enclosed area in back. 

Approximately 6-8 female dogs were on premises, and were bred to outside "show quality" studs who were actively in the ring or had completed Ch. None of the females were actively being shown but the pedigrees online reference what seem to be quality kennels respected in the show world.

The last breeder I saw may have qualified as a byb, but she did a fair amount of health testing and all 11 of her dogs were house pets, 2 males and 9 females plus a litter or two of puppies.

Thoughts?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Not so many years ago the norm for breeders was detached kennels, with large dogs whelping and raising their pups outside. Pups might have been brought into the house for socialising, or not. If the dogs are exercised, happy, friendly, and well socialised, what you describe sounds a reasonable arrangement to me. If they are just left to their own devices for days at a time, that would be different, of course!


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

When I was looking for a puppy, I wouldn't have looked twice at anyone who had kennels. I wanted my puppy raised in a home from the time they were born until they landed in my arms. Some people may have no problem with the scenario you described, but my dogs live in the house (we have a big, fenced backyard that they get out to many times during the day, but I wanted a "house dog" not a "kennel dog" or even a part-time kennel dog)

One breeder I contacted in Montana was quite proud of their set-up, which included a detached heated building with attached kennels and doggy doors. It just wasn't what I was looking for. I wanted my puppy to be exposed to vacuum cleaners, televisions, dishwashers, washing machines, telephones, human traffic, etc... in a home setting, since that's where she would be living...

I think some breeders who have more breeding dogs onsite than just a couple might have to do it the way you describe to keep the peace and have some semblance of a normal home life, but then it makes me wonder if they have too many breeding dogs??


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

kuriooo said:


> I visited a breeders' site and was a little surprised to find the dogs in what I would call "a kennel attached to the house."
> 
> By kennel, I mean that the dogs rotated through the house and whelped in the house, but spent "some of their time" in a heated extension to the house that had individual dog runs and allowed the dogs free access to a large enclosed area in back.
> 
> ...


When breeder has a few males and a large number of females on site it makes me think they are just a puppy farm--breeding the dogs they have to make puppies to sell--and not breeding to better the breed. These breeders usually don't show any of their dogs, either. To me, it's really just a step down from a puppy mill. The fact that they do health testing and perhaps produce a lower volume of puppies (but probably still high) is better than an outright puppy mill, but not good enough for me. 

I personally would only ever buy from a show breeder, but even in that sub catergory, you need to look carefully to find someone who is doing things in an ethical, responsible and intelligent way, and someone you also feel comfortable with. It's hard to find a great breader, but man, when you do and you have this amazing puppy that's beautiful, healthy, and mentally and physically sound--it's truly priceless. 

If all else looked good, I would not personally be put off by a kennel on the premises as long as the dogs were roated through the house and the mom and puppies were raised in the house.


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## Trillium (Sep 1, 2009)

I've got a real thing about kennels. When we adopted Sport he had been kept as a kennel dog as were a number of other dogs on the premise. They looked so sad. They had dog doors to a fenced field in each kennel. Some of the dogs were allowed in the house. That said when I got him he was a filthy dirty mess. Any of our coats he leaned on got dirty and he had to be washed the day after we got home. It was too late that night. He was recovering from eye surgery and had just been fixed. 

He was such a grateful dog. He was a sweetie. However he did have a few quirks that stayed with him till he died. He never learned to play. He'd start to then stop as if he'd done something wrong. When we got him he was somewhat dog aggressive though that changed with time and training. There were other things that he didn't know about because he'd not been exposed to them. 

When we went looking for our next puppy we wanted nothing to do with any breeder that even looked like it had kennels. We wanted a house pet that had been exposed to all the house sounds. The problem with breeders that say they rotate dogs etc is that you just don't know if they really do. Poodles imho are meant to be house pets that hang out with their people. I knew that when we got a puppy it would be an inside pet. I wanted to make sure that the one we got had started out that way and didn't have to learn what it meant to live in a house.


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## 2719 (Feb 8, 2011)

Trillium said:


> He was such a grateful dog. He was a sweetie. However he did have a few quirks that stayed with him till he died. He never learned to play. He'd start to then stop as if he'd done something wrong.


Thanks Trillium...you helped clear up a mystery for me. I agree totally with your reasoning. Our late Greyhound, Graydie, raced for 6 years. If he wasn't racing he was in a kennel. He never would play in front of us..ever. If I heard him in the living room romping and went in to investigate, he would drop the toy and go lay down. You are right...he thought he had done something he wasn't supposed to do. So I agree, puppies should be in the house and well socialised to all aspects of life with a family.


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## northerndancer (Jan 27, 2011)

plumcrazy said:


> I think some breeders who have more breeding dogs onsite than just a couple might have to do it the way you describe to keep the peace and have some semblance of a normal home life, but then it makes me wonder if they have too many breeding dogs??


That is what I was thinking as well. I am curious as to what people consider the maximum number of litters for a responsible home-based breeder to handle at one time. Maybe no more than two?


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## Carmen (Apr 27, 2011)

My breeder had a kennel attached. I was alittle leery at first. I had the same thoughts as some of the others here. But my husband and I had looked at some many standard litters and this one fellow stuck out in our minds. He chose us. He was a big black pup. He was laid back. He had medium dominance and passed our temperament testing with flying colors. His temperament was perfect for our family. Our vet recommended the breeder and she also temperament tested our boy. She agreed he was perfect for us. She was jealous and wanted to take him home. There was no way we were not going to take him home to our son. 
Strangely, I think that living in the kennel helped him adjust to our home easier. Don't get me wrong. He didn't solely live in a kennel alone. He had access to inside and the grassy outside aswell. He has been so easy to potty train. He only likes to do his business in the grass. He's been much easier to potty train than I remember my poodle pup I had as a kid. My dad rants and raves about my new fella too. Yes, I know that most poodles tend to potty train easier than most other breeds. But that doesn't give him a preference for eliminating in the grass.
I don't know if you should completely X out any breeder with a kennel. Course you're gonna do what you want to do. But, yes, if the pups live in a kennel without access to inside or grass, then yes I would agree-that's pretty much a low key puppy mill.

My breeder must have done an excellent job because he has adjusted well. To other dogs, human traffic, dish washers, vacuuming, washing machine, dryer, microwave alarms, oven alarms, children, and well, I can go on and on.

If only I can get him to leave shoes alone! We're working on it. And I need to unteach him how to open the foot operated trash can! (He picked that up somehow.) Much to my dismay.


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## Jeremy (Mar 9, 2010)

I find it interesting how people speak of commodity breeding as this terrible sin. If there is a demand for puppies, there is nothing wrong with someone who decides to set their time apart to provide beautiful healthy dogs to meet that demand, excel in it and even make a living from it.

Rather that than people who breed willy-nilly without knowledge.


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## partial2poodles (Feb 11, 2010)

I love all my dogs so much but I take them back and forth to my grooming shop ALOT, like almost daily. They love the romping and running and I love the vinyl floors and easier clean up of floors even when its muddy. So I see nothing weird at all with having a kennel building attached to the house. To me, its the best of both worlds....half home, half easy maintainence. I have raised 3 litters at home....yes it can be messy and an appropriate kennel would be me dream set-up


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## DonnaM (Aug 1, 2011)

Any dog I have, or ever will have will never be a commodity and if I want something new for my backyard I'll buy another plant. Good pet people are looking for good breeders. I look for breeders that will give the puppies a start in life that will closely replicate the life they'll share with me. That life is right inside my home by my bed. I know what it's like to raise one puppy at a time, give me 3 litters and there 's no way I could give them the attention they need. A good breeder will give you a puppy that is familiar with the house environment, will have begun a schedule that is similar to yours, will have crate trained and begun the concept of outdoor elimination. If I ever had to I'd wait 5 years for such a puppy. Thankfully, I don't have to.


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## Jeremy (Mar 9, 2010)

DonnaM said:


> Any dog I have, or ever will have will never be a commodity and if I want something new for my backyard I'll buy another plant. Good pet people are looking for good breeders. I look for breeders that will give the puppies a start in life that will closely replicate the life they'll share with me. That life is right inside my home by my bed. I know what it's like to raise one puppy at a time, give me 3 litters and there 's no way I could give them the attention they need. A good breeder will give you a puppy that is familiar with the house environment, will have begun a schedule that is similar to yours, will have crate trained and begun the concept of outdoor elimination. If I ever had to I'd wait 5 years for such a puppy. Thankfully, I don't have to.


A dog is a commodity whether you like it or not. There are 'x' number of families every year looking for beautiful healthy puppies, which they need to obtain somewhere. Better they obtain those puppies from someone who dedicates their life to that work than from some foolish pet owner who decided to breed their bitch with the dog next door. The reason you don't have to [wait five years for a puppy] is that there are people actively providing the good which you're seeking giving you a selection from a number of puppies/breeders to choose that which pleases you most. 

I agree you need to find a breeder who is right for you, but to say a good breeder WILL have begun (for example) crate training is unrealistic and ludicrous - there are many perfectly good breeders who hate crates altogether. Just because you yourself do not have the competency/time to raise well three litters, does not mean others cannot. 

A quote I find very interesting on "commodity breeding": 



> There is a demand for good quality pedigree puppies
> 
> *Breeding good quality, healthy, well adjusted puppies is hard work and cannot be done on the cheap*
> *
> ...


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