# Positive Reinforcement/Clicker Working but Issues!!!!!! Advice Appreciated!!!



## Qarza (Feb 23, 2013)

Lol she sounds like my Bridget! But she is still young. Bridget is 2 and I haven't been as diligent as you have. Yes they are so intelligent, but they will get the idea sooner or later. Try doing some off leash training with treats in the yard. She will require lots more treat training yet but don't loose hope. I have the naughtiest, funniest, most mischievous, most intelligent, cheekiest dog you can imagine and she is alway one step ahead of me. 


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think it is less that she is choosing not to do it, more that you have not taught her to generalise (and not faded the lure quickly enough). To a dog, if you have always asked for Sit in the same way (on the rug, in the sitting room, facing me) all those things are part of the behaviour - in the yard, or the street, or beside you rather than in front of you, are all so different that she actually needs to be taught to generalise the cue to recognise it in different circumstances. And then taught again to cope with the three Ds - Distance, Duration and Distraction.

I recommend you get hold of Jean Donaldson's "Train your dog like a pro" - it explains how to generalise cues and how to progress through the levels extremely well.


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## Lene (Jan 18, 2013)

Hi... You are going a great job...

Training a dog to do things inside, doesn't mean they atomically knows how to do it in other places... You need to go back to basics in every new situation...

Many years ago I lost a dog, because I didn't know this... He has been trained to not go past our boundary onto the road... When we moved I had no idea, I had to teach him again... He got run over by a car, and had to be put down...


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## Sweetp (Mar 23, 2013)

I have a poodle like that! Kaylee will sit, lay down and roll over on command but only indoors. She will not sit on grass. I don't know why but even when I'm out working in my garden she'll stand and wait for me but never sit or lay down on grass. I don't know if it's because she doesn't like the smell of all the critters that have been there (we live in the country) or if it's the feel of grass on her behind.

You're doing great with your puppy though; I hope you can successfully find a way that will work and come back and tell us how you did it.


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## Travis (Sep 10, 2012)

Thanks for the good ideas so far! I really have high hopes for her and know she is highly trainable. I probably expect a little too much from her because she seems to learn things so easily. Like Bridget's owner, I am sure people would call her bad...but I call her busy--she explores everything. I remember the day I first got her and she went missing inside and everyone was calling and searching under chairs. It was quite frantic, where could this 4lb puppy disappear to in a matter of seconds where we couldn't see or hear her. There she was 4 steps up on the staircase laying down watching all the commotion not making a peep--and not crying even though she couldn't come back down!!! She is the type of dog that takes your clothes from the clothes basket and skatters them around. Take a piece of kibble and throws it in the air and chases it all over the house. Don't get me started with the toilet paper roll!!! She definitely has her stubborn streak. When she was a couple months old she had a paper towel and was streaking through the house and dropped it and I ran over and got it because I thought she was so funny having a blast with it and I jumped on it before she could turn and grab it and said AH HA! I GOT IT thinking I was going to be part of this paper towel game! Then she looked at me and peed on the floor, I'm thinking it was all in good fun and here she is saying don't mess with my paper towel and my game! She is super sweet though and there isn't a person she doesn't like. At the park she does this sad little whine whenever a runner passes by as she doesn't understand how they just couldn't want to stop and play with her!!! I'll keep you all posted. Will continue clicking and reinforcing. I just cut up a whole buch of treats last nite into itty bitty pieces (as I mentioned she is a treat girl so I have a brand new supply).


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Next time you go outside try one command, make sure she is leashed. You may have to teach it from scratch. Wait till she is reliable doing it on lead before you try it off lead. When you do try the first time off lead do it in a small manageable area so you can easily get her and put her back on a leash if she does not successfully execute the command. Don't allow too many opportunities for her not to obey a command - they learn from that too. I have heard great things about Jean donalson's book. Most of all keep training sessions short and fun and always end with a successfully executed command even if it is super easy. Good luck!


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## caroline429 (Mar 5, 2012)

I think everyone has given you really good advice on training so I don't have anything else to offer on that front. I just wanted to let you know that there is hope. Josie sounds a lot like my Cali was as a pup. I've owned and trained other breeds of dogs before but Cali is my first poodle. My last two dogs were Rottweilers and I often tell people they were a "walk in the park" to train compared to this miniature poodle of mine!

Cali is 1 1/2 years old now and has settled down quite a bit so is making much better progress with her training. I think some poodle puppies are just so darned busy that, as smart as they are, they can't concentrate for long and are very easily distracted. Cali's breeder actually told me not to expect a whole lot in the way of obedience for the first year. LOL I would encourage you just to persevere and, little by little, it will all start to pay off. :smile:


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## pinkteaji (Dec 7, 2012)

I thought it be best to post here instead of making another thread but based on what I read in the replies, how fast should you fade from the lure/food if you reached a point where they know what to do?


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## Travis (Sep 10, 2012)

Thank you so much for that kind response! I know it will all work out and Josie is an outstanding little dog, and for that reason I feel like I'm letting her down a bit when she learns so quickly but I fail to keep her intrigued or motivated to listen to me. I will keep working at it. Regardless, she is such an affectionate girl who has a smile and wags her tail for everyone. I have emailed a facility that has a good reputation and I think we will do some one on one work with a trainer. I probably have my expectations a bit high from the speed at which she learned as a tiny puppy, as well as when I compare her to all these amazingly trained little show poodles. I will keep you all posted and hopefully one day I'll get tell everyone how well she is doing in agility. We have a ways to go until then to develop consistency. I feel thankful every day that I have her and will do my best to help her reach her full potential. She is a speed demon and her athleticism amazes me--now to channel that!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

The advise already given about generalizing the commands by teaching them is different settings is right on. You should also make sure that all members of your family participate so Josie understands she has to listen to everybody. 

One important thing I don't think I saw is that you want to help ensure your pup's success. Start from scratch in new places if needed (including using food). When you go outside do work on leash (even in your back yard) so you don't end up chasing and making a funny game out of what can be lifesaving training as noted by Lene. Don't let her get away with thinking she has a choice. If she is on a leash and really isn't cooperating then you can just take her to her crate for a minute for a time out and try again.

In terms of fading food rewards, the first thing is to make sure you aren't using to bribe the behavior. Make sure you aren't showing the treat until the behavior is done instead of showing it as if you are saying here's a cookie if you sit. As soon as you think she really understands the behavior go to a random reward schedule by offering a treat every 2nd, 4th, 3rd, 7th, etc. time the behavior is performed correctly. Keep her guessing as to whether the food is coming at all. As her reliability for a behavior continues to improve you can increase the number of trials between treats. When I was first teaching Lily to heel (real heeling for trials) I treated frequently (at first every few good steps in the correct position). Gradually I decreased the frequency of rewards to be only on halt sits. Then I decreased the reward to only at the end of a heeling pattern. Every once and a while though I surprise her with something tasty while she is moving with me and doing a very good job to reinforce to her that I appreciate her hard work. Keep Josie guessing about the treats and she will keep working in the hopes that maybe this time a treat will come.

Hope springs eternal in the mind of a dog hearing the sound of a can opener (or for my dogs the ice dispenser on our frig!).


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## pinkteaji (Dec 7, 2012)

lily cd re said:


> The advise already given about generalizing the commands by teaching them is different settings is right on. You should also make sure that all members of your family participate so Josie understands she has to listen to everybody.
> 
> One important thing I don't think I saw is that you want to help ensure your pup's success. Start from scratch in new places if needed (including using food). When you go outside do work on leash (even in your back yard) so you don't end up chasing and making a funny game out of what can be lifesaving training as noted by Lene. Don't let her get away with thinking she has a choice. If she is on a leash and really isn't cooperating then you can just take her to her crate for a minute for a time out and try again.
> 
> ...



This is super helpful! Thank you!!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Randomness is the key to the success of this. I am glad my explanation helped you understand how to work it. Let us know how you are doing.


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## Milo :) (Mar 10, 2013)

I'm sure this has already been said but you must fade the lure. Once she can reliably sit, she doesn't need a treat every single time she sits. I always switch to an intermittent reward once the dog gets it.

Also, it could just be the puppy in her.
Milo wouldn't come to me for anything last month. MAYBE if I had a treat, but really, his recall was terrible.

Now he listens to me even if I interrupt him in the middle of playing, or even if he can't see me. So as she matures it will get better, I promise.


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