# frustrated with my dogs personality...help



## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

I love my dog. He is the only animal I have ever loved, as I am not an animal person. But I'm frustrated with him often. (he is a 14 month old 6.5 lb red toy poodle, male, neutered, we have had him one year) 

Maybe it's me, as I am not very patient. I didn't realize how much work it was to train a puppy and realize I didn't do very well. Now I am working with a trainer and am trying to get things straightened out. 

*But I don't know if it's possible to make your dog want to do things or like things, don't you have to respect them too? *I want a dog I can take woods walks with, do classes with (just about to start some) and take with me wherever dogs are allowed... I don't want a dog to sit home all day and snuggle with before bed. That seems wrong to me (not judging, but it seems like everyone I know who has a dog that is how it is, they never take it places or walk it). 

For example, my dog doesn't seem to enjoy walks, he hides in his crate when he sees me get out his harness and leash. During the walk he keeps his tail down and never acts like he is excited to be out. And I don't do neighborhood walks, as I get too bored. I enjoy woods walks, and so we go to different locations almost every day, or at least 5 times a week. You would think that would be fun, right? 

I feel like he is happy to just sit home all day and do nothing. He does play fetch in the back yard, but he never goes by the door and begs to go out. If I'm sick or something and we stay in all day, he never acts up or acts like he has pent up energy. I don't know if he is depressed or what. 

I get anxious and feel guilty when I leave him home alone. He does sometimes end up home alone, but sometimes it's a couple times a week, (during baseball season, they don't allow dogs at all locations) sometimes it's not even once at all in a week. And it's rarely more than a few hours. We really try to incorporate him into our lives...take him places. The trainer had me lay out his leash and harness and put treats all around it and told me not to take him out all week. I couldn't do it, I felt bad for him, we ended up gong to the dog beach once and a woods walk once, and a baseball game once. 

We don't have a regular schedule, I'm a stay home mom so our schedule varies, with kids activities, etc. He seems fine to just go with the flow... he seems like he likes when he sees his sleepy pod (car seat/carrier). I wonder why he doesn't show much emotion though.... he used to be a little spazz as a puppy. I think he seems fine with his sleepy pod because he doesn't cower away like with the leash... but then when I go to take him out of it, he doesn't come to me he seems to want to stay in it. 

Also, when around other dogs, he doesn't act interested at all. He doesn't act scared, but he doesn't want to play either. 

My trainer said for a little dog like him running around the house is enough exercise. I disagree. I don't like the attitude that a small dog isn't a dog. He is a dog. He likes to play tug of war and attack his squeaky toys. He acts like a dog, he's not a teddy bear. (I am always having to remind my kids of this, they want to snuggle with him instead of play with him)

My trainer also said to ask my vet if something is wrong with him because he doesn't jump on the furniture. My furniture is oversized and large so I figured it was too high for him... in regards to that we haven't had any health problems at all and have only done the regular vet checks to this point. 
*
I'm confused if I am just such a novice and can't read him? My trainer has taught me about body language, but I don't seem to get it. * Or if he is just not the right "fit" for our family. I wouldn't get rid of him, I have a sixteen year old daughter who isn't a good "fit" either, LOL. *But I sometimes wonder if I should give up and let him just stay home. Can a toy poodle be happy with only running in the backyard a couple times a day? Do I keep trying or do I just respect his personality? Can a dog be depressed? * He has been growling and snapping lately, a HUGE concern for me, as it breaks my ten year old sons heart, and really does scare me. No my son doesn't tease him, he is really good with him. He seems to be possessive of me.... seems to do it when people (my kids, ages 10, 14 and 16) get in his space. But sometimes he does it when my kids are putting him down too, so it's not that he doesnt like to be held and picked up, he will snuggle with them, then growl when they put him down. He doesn't do it to me, and is excited when he is around other people. That's really the only emotion he shows...

Sorry this is so long... I bolded my questions/concerns to make it easier to answer. I appreciate any and all feedback very much.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Maybe a poodle is not the dog for you. No shame in that, there are lots of breeds that are not the dog for me. He sounds like he would be the perfect fit for many homes and very easy to re-home, so maybe you should think about it. I think a bigger dog would be more fitting for you, a dog less sensitive as well. I would have his health checked, but I don't think that is the issue. You might like a Schnauzer, my sister is crazy about hers and I think you would love her dog as well.


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## Critterluvr (Jul 28, 2014)

The first thing I would truly consider after reading your post is that he may have some sort of joint problem? It just doesn't seem normal to me for a young dog to be unenthusiastic about walks and outings, and if he's not jumping up on furniture then that may be a red flag. It may be that exercise is uncomfortable for him whether it's going for a hike or playing with another dog, and he's wanting to avoid it. Also, if he's growling and snapping occasionally then something may be hurting him and he's expressing his discomfort.
I agree with your trainer and would have him checked out by your vet. JMO


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I had exactly the same thought - he behaves like a dog that has some sort of chronic pain. I would start with a visit to the vet. 

If all is well there, I would think back over his experiences of life so far. Did you try to leash train him on your walks together when he was a puppy, and were perhaps a little too forceful? Has anything else happened while you are out to make walks something to endure, rather than to enjoy? You imply he was a bit of a wild child as a puppy - did he get repeatedly told off or even punished? If dogs are scolded or punished too often they can shut down, and decide that if any behaviour may be punished they will do as little as possible in order to to minimise the risk. In a busy household it would be easy for a dog to become confused about what is and is not allowed, too.

Once you have got the all clear from the vet (and I would want a very thorough examination - it is unlikely to be anything immediately obvious or you and your trainer would be able to see it immediately) I would go back to basics. Play with him. Really silly, fun games, and let him choose what they are. Get down on the floor and play bow, giggle, lie down and let him clamber over you, run around in the garden, play tug - do whatever he loves most, and get down on his level to do it. Follow your trainer's advice, and let him just explore treats around the leash and harness for at least a week (he is not enjoying walks with them much at the moment, so you don't need to feel bad about it - you are working towards much more enjoyment for him in the future). Watch him - try and read his behaviour during the day. Is he alert? Hungry? Wanting to go out in the yard? Does he respond when you say his name? How? Ears up, tail up, come over to you? Dogs communicate through body language far more than through sounds - if you watch him closely you too can learn that language. 

Concentrate on bringing the fun back into your life together at home for a week or two. Then take that fun on the road. Go to the same place every day for a week, so he gets to know it is a good place to be. Give him lots of time to sniff and explore, even if you have to take a book to keep you occupied while he does it. Play games in the woods, take toys, think about what he likes best and make sure some of it happens, up to and including sharing an ice cream on the way home. Yes, you can change how a dog feels about life - the key is to know what he truly enjoys, though.


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## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

Thanks for the replies, lots to think about.

Nothing bad happened, was never forceful. 

Poodle is the ONLY dog for me. Can't have shedding, drooling or smelly dogs. 

So you think it's okay to leave him home alone? I figured that was more traumatic on him then going out. For example, yesterday I wanted to spend time with my son. We went to the dog beach and then a campgrounds we hang out that is dog friendly. So if we left him home, it would have been six hours. Is that better than forcing him to come out with us?


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I would absolutely insist that a vet do a thorough physical exam, from full blood work, including thyroid to lots of palpation all over and anything else he might think is a possibility. If any medical thing isn't detectable, then I'd recommend getting a certified behaviorist in to observe him and spend a session or two with you. 

Has he always been this way or did it seem to develop over some months?

How do people in the family respond when he growls or snaps? 

Where did he come from? Can you describe the breeder and did you meet either of the parents of your dog? 

Of course you have to respect your dog too, to have the best relationship. I think that is a tad broad of a word or concept to attach to why a dog does things for you. Basically, dogs do things for you because something about doing that thing is rewarding to the dog...in some way...enough so, that he wants to repeat that behavior. In many cases, it takes more than love and respect to train specific behaviors. It takes reinforcers that are in addition to the usual love and respect to have a dog want to repeat a behavior he doesn't find particularly rewarding by itself. In other words, a primary reinforcer, such as food or something else the dog really, really loves big time. A reinforcer can also be, for certain things a "life reward," something the dog wants at that particular time...it can be given if the dog performs the cued behavior (if he has learned it). Dog wants to go outside. Sit first. 

A toy Poodle can get enough physical exercise running through the house and yard. But that is not very mentally stimulating if that's all he does ever...no novel sights, sounds, smells, experiences. Imo. But if your pup is shutting down and not enjoying walks, then he's not really benefiting from those things anyhow. I would condition the dog to that gradually...with help from a reputable, well respected _behaviorist. _

Yes, dogs can and do become depressed...definitely. Is there any excessive stress or even not particularly excessive in the house hold? 

This could be in part due to something physical going on. It could be his temperament. That may or may not be compensated for to some degree with good handling. I've seen dogs with unstable temperaments turn out fine and visa versa. But you can't change the temperament. That's what he was born with. You _can_ change some behaviors. I'd definitely look into if and why he might be depressed and get some expert help from a behaviorist who can observe and evaluate the dynamics in the home...how interactions go with the whole family with each other and with the dog, what she reads in the dog etc.

I'm sorry he's not the dog you had hoped for. Maybe he is going to wind up just being happier hanging around home and you'll have to accept that just like you would a child that doesn't have quite the temperament you had hoped for. Or one that throws you for a loop. But I'd explore every possibility first. Keep us posted.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

shelhey said:


> Thanks for the replies, lots to think about.
> 
> Nothing bad happened, was never forceful.
> 
> ...


Yes, I'd say leaving him alone for 6 hours is better than forcing him, if he's miserable on an outing. Or is he terribly stressed being home alone? Mybe in that case it's better to take him so he's with you, his familiar and loved humans. Maybe he just doesn't feel well. I can't help but want to rule out anything medical. 6 hours is longer than I like to leave my dogs alone (and they have each other) but it almost seems better than stressing him out on outings...if that stresses him out so much. It is a conundrum, for sure. If you think you can comfort him and he can have a better time just because he's WITH you, then take him and try to make it as pleasant as possible. I just don't know about that one. It's tough.

How much early socialization did he have? (between birth and 3 or 4 months?) What places did he go? How often? What kinds of exposures to various environments, people, dogs etc etc did he have? Is he okay with strangers?


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I had exactly the same reaction many years ago to a Portuguese Water Dog puppy I got right after my poodle Merlin died. Dasher, the PWD, was supposed to help me get over the grief for my poodle, but he was not like a normal dog. He did not want to go on walks, he was afraid of everything, did not want to eat all the time. We could not raise our voices without him scurrying out of the room. He did not fetch or play a lot with his toys. On top of it all, he did not want to be held.

I took him to the vet and we thought he might have some kind of food allergy but we were not able to pinpoint it. I remember crying that I got the wrong dog, that this dog was no fun. I wanted to send him back to the breeder, which would have been difficult since we had him shipped to us. Oh, and he also threw up in the car all the time.

I finally accepted that we were going to keep him, and I decided I was at least going to be able to hold him and cuddle. So every night from 10-10:30 when a favorite show of mine was on, I held him no matter how he struggled. Soon he struggled less, then after a while, he was hunting me up around 10:00 pm to go cuddle on the couch. That turned our relationship around. I had Dasher almost 15 years and his job in life was just to be with me and give me emotional support. I learned to appreciate him for what he was.

I would like to add it turned out Dasher did have some medical problems that affected his ability to cope with life. First he had chronic pancreatitis and second, he had Addison's Disease which was not diagnosed until he was 8 years although I think he had it way before that.

I think your dog has his own personality which might not be what you wished (as Dasher was not mine) but that can be improved with training. I also think the growling is an indication for something that needs to be addressed medically. Growling has the possibility of turning into biting. So I would get him tested for as many things as you can think of. Don't forget a thyroid test as well.

It may turn out that he never becomes the kind of dog you wanted, not because he is a poodle, because most poodles are outgoing dogs, but just because it is what he is. You either have to accept it and learn to appreciate it, or rehome him as has been suggested.

I am glad I kept Dasher but I got another dog later so that I had 2 dogs with different personalities and it was more satisfying for me. But Dasher was MY dog and I was HIS human, and it was a good thing.

PS - Instead of trying to make him be the dog you want in all areas, just pick one thing that would really make you happy (like cuddling was for me) and see if you can get him to improve in that area. It might make your feelings be more positive towards him. Just a suggestion.


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## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

_Has he always been this way or did it seem to develop over some months? Always been this way, except the growling/snapping. Was more energetic as a pup, but I thought it was normal to calm down. 

How do people in the family respond when he growls or snaps? I get scared, because it scares me. My 14 year old daughter is the best with him, she stays calm and is great with animals. My 16 year old daughter won't follow my instructions at all and I basically have banned her from any contact with him. She wants to be in his face and treat him like a teddy bear. My 10 year old son doesn't get scared, but he gets his feelings hurt because he loves Happy so much. We are a loud bunch, so we say "no" but sometimes its yelling "no" or "off" and we put him down and don't give him attention. My husband doesn't live here, and either does my 16 year old so they aren't around him much. (we are separated but still sometimes do things as a family) He tends to be more Ceasar Milan/ bully type but I don't let him. He used to make Happy "submit" to him and hold him down until Happy stops. Now I tell him to stay away, so basically the three of us who live here are the only ones having anything to do with him. It's been overwhelming for me to get everybody on board so I've given up on the two who don't live here. 

Where did he come from? Can you describe the breeder and did you meet either of the parents of your dog? Yes I met the parents. I got him from a local breeder. She didn't do genetic testing, she doesn't show dogs. It was a lovely home with about 4 adults and she breeds occasionally. I didn't know much, I was just beginning my research but fell in love with him when I met him so I didn't look farther. 

Is there any excessive stress or even not particularly excessive in the house hold? _ I think having two teenage daughters is stressful...they are moody and argue. I am separated from my husband... but other than that it's just normal life like most people have. I have some anxiety issues and kids with life threatening food allergies... ya know normal life. Most of the time it's my 14 year old daughter, my 10 year old son, me and the dog. Then it's mostly always peaceful and nice. Happy doesn't seem to notice or matter if the other two are around. I would notice if he acted different when they are here and he doesn't. Usually it's my 16 year old who is here, my husband isn't here very much.


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## shell (Jul 10, 2015)

I really agree with the others who suggest some kind of chronic pain. The walking, refusing to jump on furniture and the growling and snapping are things that make me think of chronic pain. He may have pulled something in his back, I really would have a thorough physical exam and x Rays to see if there are neck and back problems. I have Maltese (don't have my spoo yet) Maltese are bred to be purely companion animals and even my total couch potato loves to go for walks. I find it odd that your pup dreads them so


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I have an older dog with mobility issues. So I have placed little stools in front of the furniture so that she can get up and down from the couch and bed etc. My miniature poodle uses these stools all the time to get up and down, which pleases me. Sometimes he leaps off of them (which does not please me) but I am glad he is learning to use steps to access the furniture. It is a useful skill.

Why not place something by the couch for Happy to use? It would be easier on his joints and he might enjoy it.


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## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

Answering questions:

How much early socialization did he have? (between birth and 3 or 4 months?) 

I took him on short walks, where we would occasionally meet other dogs... I followed breeders and vets advice about waiting till all the vaccs were done... took a class at petsmart. 

What places did he go? 
parks/woods walks/ neighborhood. 

How often? daily, or at least 5 times a week.

What kinds of exposures to various environments, people, dogs etc etc did he have? 
Took to petstore, walked on all different surfaces, lots of backyard play, occasional interation with other dogs. Dog beach...

Is he okay with strangers? 
Yes, loves people, wags tail, wants attention, does the "happy pee". 

Thanks MiniPoo. That sounds pretty extreme compared to what I have here with Happy. I feel awful thinking about rehoming him. I don't think my kids could handle that. They LOVE him and wanted a dog for SO long. I waited till we did allergy shots a few years because we are so HIGHLY allergic to EVERYTHING. We had a dog 9 years ago and had to give him back due to allergies so I couldn't do that to them again. 

I will try everything. I will do the testing and look into a behaviorist. If worse comes to worse, I will just have to leave him home alone more often. I can't not enjoy my life with my children just to sit home with my dog. Sorry... kids first.

I don't think he is stressed being home alone. I hear him whining after I leave. He hasn't done any damage to the house at all, or have accidents. I have someone come by and check on him and let him out if it's over four hours. 

I was already considering getting another dog, sometime in the next year or so. Just because I may go to school and work in a few years and am so uncomfortable leaving him home alone. I think if I got another dog, how would I know it's personality/temperment? Should I just get an adult? How would I know if they would get along... that seems too overwhelming right now. I was hoping to spend more time getting Happy trained and all but now I'm wondering if it will just add more problems.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I can understand your reservation about getting a second dog. When we brought home a puppy to be a companion to Dasher (Phoenix), he used to throw her to the ground if I paid too much attention to the new puppy. In time we worked out a truce and they did play together and were good companions. I think he enjoyed having company when I was not there. It certainly is a gamble when choosing a 2nd or 3rd dog to know how they will get along. Most do well in time. Just be more careful with your next breeder and make temperament the most important thing, even over color.

I think you will work this out after consulting a vet and an dog behaviorist. Happy is still young and be trained. Let us know how it works out.


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## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

He jumps down off the couch... so I assumed it wasn't a pain thing... he never growls/bites when I pick him up.... or other friends/family....

???

He's also an extremely picky eater. I'm going broke feeding him stella and chewys.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would sort out any possible health issues before thinking about anything else. Sophy has a back issue - she would not jump at agility, and for years that was the only symptom. I am now filled with guilt at how I over persuaded her, trying everything to make her jump when she was telling me very clearly that it hurt. Then she had a trapped nerve in her back - at first the only symptoms were a reluctance to walk far or fast, very unlike her as usually she is out in front, telling us we are slow and suggesting we take the detour that adds an extra mile to a four mile walk, and a definite disinclination to jump up onto furniture or laps - down was fine. Only when she was suddenly in very obvious pain did it really become apparent that there was a serious problem. Fortunately it was not too bad, and resolved with crate rest, pain killers, and some sessions with an osteopath, but it taught me that dogs are very good at hiding pain, especially comparatively low level, chronic pain.

Everything you describe - not jumping, grumbling on being put down, not wanting to walk far on a leash, generally subdued, etc, etc - can be symptoms of pain. I really would rule that out before taking a behavioural route. Sometimes a small dose of pain killer is all it takes to see an almost miraculous transformation...


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## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

I appreciate all the helpful response. I am not trying to be argumentative... but I want to point out that he does run and play in the back yard. I wouldn't say "loves" but he seems to enjoy playing fetch with one certain toy. He ignores the others. He loves to play tug of war with it after he fetches it. I think that's possibly the only reason he fetches it. Of course I play it very gently with him... I barely use any strength at all. So that makes me think he isn't in pain...??? But maybe I'm wrong...???


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Adrenaline is an amazing thing - Sophy had to be prevented from flying downstairs to bark at the postman even when she could barely move five minutes before. I wish you were closer - I could recommend an excellent osteopath...


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

You are in a way wrong, because dogs can and do self limit they do things they can do and it isn't always obvious that they are in pain. 

Running and playing in the backyard is different than going on a long walk through the woods, park whatever because it's at his pace.

I didn't know that my Beatrice. a 8 lb tpoo, had such bad knees, she has Grade 2 and Grade 3 luxating patellas, which other than the odd skip I didn't know she had, my vet said she had passable knees. She didn't jump up on furniture and didn't jump up very high.

But she popped out her kneecap when she was roughly a year old scared the crap out of me, that's when I figured out that she had been self limiting all a long often sitting down during our walks when they got too much. 

It's best to let your vet say he is fit.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

It's of little use speculating whether there's something wrong physically with the dog. The best course of action imo is to get him checked out thoroughly to rule a medical condition out. Then you don't have to think too much on that but move on to the now, narrowed down, probable behavioral aspect. 

What you describe about the Cesar Milan, bullying, threatening techniques raises HUGE red flags to me. This kind of mistreatment is exactly why I'm always disdainful of this so called "trainer." A threatened animal becomes defensive and can become aggressive purely out of fear... _OR_ it can go the other way and the dog shuts down...otherwise known as learned helplessness. He looses his vitality and spunk, afraid to try new things because it's proved dangerous. Animals do what is either safe or dangerous or they wouldn't have survived to pass on their genes and evolve. Safe or dangerous. Threatening, force, holding a dog down, getting in his face, loud, frightening, intimidation....not safe to a dog. There are only two courses of action...fight to make the bad guy go away or shut down and go away, either literally or in spirit or both. Maybe it wasn't vicious or extreme but it doesn't take much with most dogs, especially sensitive ones.

I know it's not your fault and that you didn't do this. But those in your family who did may well have played a roll in this dog's behavior. And if he had a rather weak temperament to begin with, the coupling of all these things may be what is causing some of what you describe. 

BUT the good news is it can be turned around with everyone in the family on the same page, cooperative and working together. This dog needs to be handled with kid gloves. There are things dogs simply do not understand and people have a tendency to anthropomorphize too much. My son's 15 year old dog was severely abused, much, much worse than you describe...kicked, hit, screamed at, forced, over whelmed when getting nails clipped and you would not ever guess it now...except for one thing. If people are arguing, even a little and it gets kind of tense, she goes away and hides behind a chair. She does not like that one bit. Otherwise she's over come so much with good care from my son after he got her back. (long story) And with my help with conditioning her to nail clipping, she's over come that. She would get so frightened, she'd become vicious. Otherwise, a lovely, affectionate dog. She came to trust again and is by and large very normal and happy. I think her natural temperament is strong. But anyhow, your pup sounds depressed very possibly and the stress you mention may be too much for such a sensitive dog. If things get tense, you can start pairing that with something good. Someone yells or argues, break out the filet mignon and give tid bits. Get a favorite toy or do his favorite thing while your kids are arguing but take him to a place where it's not so loud. 

I really recommend getting a behaviorist involved. You may only need a couple sessions to get some tips and let her watch your pup and family for a while. 

Read the book, Culture Clash, by Jean Donaldson. This will show you how dogs probably think, operate and why they do the things they do. It will give you loads of training tips and concepts. There are lots of good books out there. But that one's a start. Don't go along with this pack theory and alpha stuff that Cesar Milan touts. He has zero education in behavior and has no credentials. He's a Hollywood schmooze who has set dog training back decades. 

This can be improved with good handling and expert advice. You may not change the dog's whole way of being...temperament is what you're born with... but I bet his view of the world can get a whole lot better.


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## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

Thanks for your reply I will look into that book.

My husband has only done that to Happy twice, in a year, so I'm not sure that had too much impact. He wasn't angry either, calm and all. I'm not saying it's okay, I don't like it. I just don't want to give the impression that I have a scared shaky fearful dog, because I don't. 

What do you guys think about bark busters? I was looking for a behaviorist and can't seem to find one specifically called that...


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

shelhey said:


> Thanks for your reply I will look into that book.
> 
> My husband has only done that to Happy twice, in a year, so I'm not sure that had too much impact. He wasn't angry either, calm and all. I'm not saying it's okay, I don't like it. I just don't want to give the impression that I have a scared shaky fearful dog, because I don't.
> 
> What do you guys think about bark busters? I was looking for a behaviorist and can't seem to find one specifically called that...


Oh good. I don't think twice is going to hurt anything and the way you describe doesn't sound so awful.

I'd stay away from bark busters as well...same intimidating (throwing things, scaring with noisy things etc) punishing stuff. Please seek a certified behaviorist or a behavior consultant who uses progressive/positive reinforcement methods, who_ knows _behavior...no harsh punishment whatsoever with this sensitive little soul...someone educated in the science of behavior and has experience and references in helping dogs with various behavior difficulties.

I didn't have time to go all through this but it might be a start. 

http://www.animalbehaviorsociety.org/web/applied-behavior-caab-directory.php


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## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

Wrote I had no idea! I don't like that. I just posted asking about them in the obedience and training section.

Thanks for that website link! Very helpful.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

My little Bella never has jumped and does not like walking at all. I did not know it, but the vet said it was her legs. They are very long, and sure enough, now the knee flys out of joint. she puts it back in. When she want up she scratches with her front feet on my leg or chair never jumps on her back legs. Cayenne the newest one can jump on furniture she is on 3 pounds, but when she want picked up she jumps and and down on her back legs. 

When they play, Cayenne will run like crazy, Bella will wait until she comes back and then jump and growl at her. They are only playing, but do to Bella's knees she will not chase Cayenne


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

This is a great thread. After reading everyone's advice I have to agree now, he could be in pain and that needs to be the first action plan, go to the vet. Have x-rays ect. I do think you may have a sensitive dog living in a loud house with a lot going on and this may not be the best fit for either you guys or Happy. You are on the right track and looking for answers and I am sure you will get them. Good luck to you and your sweet pup.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

shelhey, i just did a quick google and the humane society of west michigan has a "resident" behaviorist: Humane Society of West Michigan | behavior assistance

she seems to have some serious credentials and it could be worth the detour to do a consultation with her. i would ask about the physical pain possibility, as well. 

best of luck with your little guy - and best of luck to him, too.


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## cmarrie (Sep 17, 2014)

I don't know where in W. Michigan you are, however if you are looking for behaviorist help with Happy, you might check out Linker Learning Center in Springfield Michigan. She has a website and a Facebook page. I'll put the links below. My experience with her has been very limited, but I have taken my spoo there for her daycare program on occasion. I watched the dogs interacting with each other, I've watched her do training work with a "helper dog" and have dealt with some of her employees. Our experience was very positive. I especially like how she comes from a place of creating a positive human-canine partnership with the dog, rather than trying to command or force the dog. I know she travels for training, and she also offers "boarding school" training where she will take your dog for a few weeks and work with him directly. She may be worth calling or emailing after you've worked out any possible health concerns.

Linker Learning Center for Dogs - Training

https://www.facebook.com/LLCDog


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## SeoulTeddy (Jan 8, 2015)

Hello! 

I don't really have anything to add to the excellent advice, but I just wanted to say good luck. And try not to be frustrated. If it's not a health issue there are many ways to change behavioural issues  As someone who indeed does have a fearful tpoo (I know you don't,) I would try and educate your husband on how ineffective these methods are. My DH got so frustrated with Teddy for a while that he became insistent that I tried the cesar milan way. I swiftly removed that idea from his head. If your dog has a sensitive temperament (which it sounds like Happy does), this kind of treatment is definitely going to worsen the situation. 


He may never have the personality you were hoping for, and that's okay. Teddy certainly isn't what I dreamed my first very own dog would be, but over time and after many tears, I've realised that I wouldn't change him for anything. He's far from perfect but I love him and he loves me. I'm sure you'll grow to accept Happy's personality for exactly what it is, even if it's not what you initially wanted.

Please don't be worried that anyone here is judging your dog as something he is not. I've found everyone to be so helpful in my short time here. Good luck with your little one. I hope he gets a clean bill of health, grows to love his walks and you and your kids have many happy years with him


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## hopetocurl (Jan 8, 2014)

He is definitely resource guarding you, that needs to be nipped in the bud. If he growls when he is on your lap, you probably need to put him down. That behavior is more concerning to me.... I have children about the same age as yours...and a timid tpoo.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Yes to what everyone said about a comprehensive Vet check, and yes to what Hopes to Curl said about resource guarding.
But I am of the belief that you can do very little to change a dog's basic nature. He sounds like he has many nice traits, just not the ones that you were looking for in a dog. If you don't feel too attached to him, Then try to find him a home that is a better match for him, but if you love him, then allow him to live happily within the parameters of what he enjoys and is comfortable with, and add another dog that will want to do the things that you want to do with them - and believe it or not, it is not that difficult to do - I had a 15 point list in order of priority when I got my latest addition, and my beloved breeder who has over fifty years experience breeding toy poodles gave me exactly the perfect, go everywhere bomb proof city dog that 
I was looking for. Experienced breeders really do know the personalities of their puppies, and are vested in matching them with the right home! My 13 year old is a "go nowhere" dog, and that is fine, I accepted that many years ago, and I love her to pieces for who she is!


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## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

Thanks Tiny Poodles, you get it. I couldn't re home him, as I love him so much, my kids love him so much and we are going to do whatever it takes for him to be happy and healthy. Thankfully he does like to snuggle! 

I do think that once we finish all the training and get to the bottom of these issues, I will pursue getting a second dog. I was eventually going that route anyway for companionship for him. Now I will also consider that maybe I need a standard instead of another toy or mini. We will see.. And i will be more patient and stuff this time around, make sure I find someone who gets the situation and can give me the right temperament. 

Thanks again everyone, SO much. I will update you after his vet check, and next trainer appointment. I had already emailed her a few days ago and said I want to take a break on basic obedience and work on the growling biting issues because I can't live like this.


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

To me, it sounds like Happy is a loving, but very sensitive dog. All dogs, but especially poodles, seem to be really effected by their chosen person's mood, feelings, etc.


To address the disliking walks thing, I would start TOTALLY fresh. New harness, new leash. Make sure they're really lightweight, and unobtrusive. Be very very excited, but calm about the new harness, let him smell it, give tons of treats just for checking it out. Then have him sit, give a command like "walk time!" Or "time to go!" in a happy, excited way, and really truly convince yourself that it is going to be a fun happy time because he can probably pick up on your anxiety about his walk behaviour.

After giving the "walk time" or whatever command, and having him in a sit, put the new harness on, give him tons of treats, clip leash on, more treats, and walk out the door. More treats. Walk a few steps away from the house. Toss some treats on the ground for him to sniff around and eat, say "time to go home" or something, walk back inside, unclip, and done. Eventually work your way up to longer/further walks. Incorporate training into it, like having him sit at curbs, changing the pace like jogging a few steps, make it FUN even though you don't like neighbourhood walks. 

The goal is to make a positive association with going out for walks. Start slowly, if he is apprehensive about the new harness/leash, do not move on to walking out the door. Once he is okay with those, then move on to going outside for further/longer distances. The most important thing is to make sure all his experiences are positive. 

With regards to a second dog, I think a mini poodle would be a great fit. They're known to be very active and "big dog" like. A standard might be too intimidating for Happy. A second dog might also really help Happy with his anxiety about walks. 

I wish you lots of luck getting down to the bottom of this. I would be very disappointed having such a couch potato dog too.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

shelhey said:


> Thanks Tiny Poodles, you get it. I couldn't re home him, as I love him so much, my kids love him so much and we are going to do whatever it takes for him to be happy and healthy. Thankfully he does like to snuggle!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you are comfortable with the Toy size, I don't think that you have to change, the right Toy will be happy to go, go, go all day with you. Back when I got Teaka, I really did not know what to ask for in a puppy, so I didn't, and the one thing that my breeder was really concerned with was adding a third female to the pack, so she made sure to give me one that was submissive and really really loved other dogs, and she sure was spot on with that. But since then I have really learned how to put into words what works with my lifestyle, and it was very effective - Timi was just perfect from day one! So start working on your list - and remember that the less choosy you are about sex and color, the easier a breeder can make a good match for you!
And believe it or not, the growling biting thing can be turned around VERY quickly at this age with perfectly timed interventions - no need to "take a break" from obedience training, it is all part of raising a great puppy!
And the companionship is great! Teaka and Timi caught snuggling on the Poodle Cam when we were at the beach yesterday


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

Just wanted to chime in with a couple of things.

First of all, when it comes to your second dog, I really recommend adopting an adult if there's a specific personality you're looking for. An excellent, experienced breeder can certainly predict a puppy's personality with high levels of accuracy, but there's no guarantee. Adult dogs are much more "what you see is what you get," especially if they're 2-3 years old or older. Admittedly finding an adult, purebred poodle with a go-everywhere personality may be difficult depending on where you live, but do keep it in mind. The attitude you're looking for is definitely available in mini poodles, by the way, and they're hardier than they look.

Secondly, I wouldn't feel so bad about leaving him at home if he's not terribly stressed alone, especially if he _is_ stressed when you take him out. My dog is routinely left at home for around six hours at a time, and as far as I can tell he mostly just sleeps. He cried the first few times we left him, but now that he has a predictable routine and he knows that someone's reliably coming back, he's just fine. It took him about a week to get used to it, and that's with us leaving him and coming home at the same times every day. Just make sure he's got lots of fun, yummy things to occupy himself with while you're gone - stuffed Kongs, delicious chews, interactive/puzzle toys (Archie just got this one for cheap on Amazon and he has a lot of fun with it), etc. I'm sure he would prefer to just go everywhere with me, but he's comfortable at home - truthfully, he spends much of the day sleeping even if I'm there with him.

I also agree that you should get a full medical work-up because many of these behaviors do sound like red flags for pain. But it also could just be his personality, and if that's the case I don't think you need to feel too badly about working out compromises (such as him learning to do a few things you like via training, and you leaving him home a little more often) so that you're both happy and less stressed. Poodles are pretty sensitive dogs, so if he's stressing you out he'll likely pick up on that.


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## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

Great responses guys! I appreciate you so much!

Totally taking much of the advice here. The adult dog is a great idea. I honestly don't want to go through training another puppy, LOL. But again, that's on the back burner until we get things figured out and get Happy better adjusted. Yes I will take my time and make that list. Great advice. 

Have an appointment tomorrow morning with the vet. 

Starting an obedience class next Monday. 

Had appointment with trainer this morning. It went well. She gave us lots of good advice. So glad to know that his biting was really still warnings, because he isn't breaking skin or anything. Have to get my ten year old son move involved with his care so Happy can see him as a leader and not a litter mate.

Wanted to ask, regarding leaving him home alone... do you think it's okay that it's not a set schedule, same time everyday? It's so sporadic, especially changes during the summer as well. Lots of evenings gone during the school year, sports games, etc. I'm gonnna get a camera on so I can confirm he isn't stressed. I really struggle with it. I don't want him to be lonely. But again it's hard to know. Is he better off than coming with us and not having a good time? Ugh wish he could talk for one day. Should I see a pet psychic? LOL


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

a pet psychic sounds like a good idea! okay, just kidding, but i know the feeling. i had a dog (my male lowchen) who was what my mother called a "homebody" - never got excited about going out, in fact, never really wanted to go out. was also a couch potato - didn't care about toys, balls, fetch, etc. the only dog he really wanted to play with was another lowchen. a total snob in that way. i tried to take him out as often as possible, so in that sense he was really well socialized. but he also learned to stay home by himself. he howled at first (i suspected that, but confirmed by asking my neighbor) and he could really put on a show. but over time he calmed down. i still felt bad when i left him alone. so eventually i brought in a second lowchen, a retired female show dog. she actually turned out to be the dominant dog and would occasionally deign to play with him - but she kept him in his place. he was bigger and she didn't like losing, so she would only consent to play if they were both lying down. still, he adored her. the turn around was that his perfect outside manners because atrocious once the female joined the household. the male was constantly barking at any dog - basically, i think telling other dogs to stay away or else! so you never know. but both dogs gave great joy. for that the price was worth paying.


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

I think sporadic should be fine - if you're worried about it, just come up with a plan to work your way up slowly. So first leave him alone for just a few minutes, then for an hour, always with some extra special treat that he ONLY gets when you're about to leave (for Archie, this is frozen stuffed Kongs) and other things to help him look forward to the separation.

It may help if you take note of his personal routines and try to time it with those as well. For example, if you notice that he always takes a long nap in the afternoon then you might not feel so bad about being away during that time since you know he's just sleeping anyway.

You could try setting up a webcam or something for at least the shorter periods when you're away to see if he's stressed. If he isn't, then he's probably better off snoozing at home and relaxed than out with you and stressed out.


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## grab (Jun 1, 2010)

Luxating patellas are common with toy Poodles (and many other small breeds), so you might have him checked for that amongst other joint issues. After/if he gets the all clear, perhaps on beach outings, you could set up his sleepypod in your blanket area, so he can come out on his own terms.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Sporadic isn't just fine, it is ideal! If he got used to a specific pattern, then he might get upset when you have to leave him at a different time - much better to mix it up so that he won't care when it happens!


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

We started with a routine leaving time for Pippin (before we got Pushkin) and one of the things we did was make sure that we used the same "cues" for when she was going to be left. Started out just half and hour or so and built up, but she was a puppy.

Anyway, our "cues" are giving the command to go into their basket (we don't use crates), closing the curtains/blind (whatever time of day it is!), giving a biscuit in the basket and telling them it's "nap-nap" time. The straight out and the door shut with no fuss.

Sounds pathetic but we can do this at any time of the day and Pippin is comfortable because she knows it means she is being left and most importantly that we will be back! And Pushkin has learned it since we had him.


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## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

That is a great idea! I will start a routine like that for sure! We just bought some poster board and are working together on making a schedule/plan so that Happy gets more consistency. And so that I'm not a nag and the kids can see what needs to be done. It's not all on them, I'm a little bit of a control freak. 

I also bought stairs (love chewy.com) and am going to put them by the ottoman so he can stop jumping down and can get up when he wants to. 

Just got back from the vet. Happy expressed pain and growled when the vet was moving his rear right leg. He did an x-ray but everything looked normal. He does have a PATELLAR LUXATION Grade 2. Anyone know much about that? The vet didn't talk about it much so I assumed it wasn't what is causing the problem...

We are doing pain meds for five days to see if we have a different dog... that will give us some answers. I go back next week to discuss... he told me to do life as normal, walking etc. 

I still can't help but wonder how much of this is due to our poor training methods. I feel like such a loser. I mean I taught my kids how to read and I never went to college. I figured how hard can it be to train puppy? I am beating myself up. I take such good care of him. I spend so much money on him. But I don't take the time to do the repetitive things... I didn't care that he did "down" for "sit." I figured, does it really matter? And now that I see how confused he is from all of us not being consistent with him, I feel so guilty. 

We have another session with the trainer we have been working with next week, I don't know if she is quite the right match for us. I like her, she is good but I just don't feel 100% like I want a long term thing with her. I am getting a second opinion from someone at a daycare/agility/training classes place. (what are they called?) Also We are taking a six week class, adult obedience 101, starting next Monday. 

I feel like by the end of summer we will be in a better place. I sure hope nothing is physically wrong with him and I very much hope that we can re-train or un-condition him or whatever it's called to get him to enjoy our walks and going to the dog beach, etc. If we can't then I know we will still enjoy playing in the backyard and snuggling on the couch. Then we will explore what we were already planning on getting a second dog for him to have companionship. I have put the 2nd dog thing on hold for now. Don't want to take that on until we are all set here.... But I do think a bigger dog would be the direction we go.

Thanks everyone, I will let you know how this week ends up!


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Orthopedic Foundation for Animals: Patellar Luxation

this explains a little


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## SeoulTeddy (Jan 8, 2015)

Hi again! 

Please don't feel badly about Happy, even if it turns out hidden pain has nothing to do with his temperament. Like yourself, I am a first time dog owner and probably never gave (puppy mill rescue) Teddy all that he needed. The only trainer I can find here in Korea insists on boarding dogs for a month and uses prong collars. That's just not for us. Teddy used to draw blood at anything he disliked; putting on his harness, putting a brush near him and putting on a winter coat was a nightmare. Plus he was/is a terrible resource guarder (especially of stolen items). I had to get 4 stitches after he bit me once when I tried to retrieve a mobile phone charger from his mouth after he refused a trade (and he is a toy poodle). 

What I will say is that although it took time and is still a work in progress, teaching obedience commands really helped us. Now when he has something he shouldn't and won't trade, or he is stressing about something, I will ask him for an alternate behaviour such as 'sit' 'down' 'stay' or even something silly like 'sit pretty,' 'play dead'', 'high five' or 'take a bow' (he loves the praise he gets for the silly ones). He is also now getting pretty good with our own personal command for 'drop it'. I taught him all of these when he was in a calm state of mind, but he seems to remember them when he is hyped up and it seems it gives him something else to focus that smart little mind on. 

Good luck to you and don't worry about leaving him on occasion or about any of it being your fault. I'm sure you will grow to adore his little personality and all will be well. 

Best of luck!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Oh my gosh, please do not beat yourself up - I think that you sound like a fantastic poodle Mom and I tend to be pretty judgmental about these things lol! But I love how hard you are trying, always thinking and trying to do better, asking for advice, and calling in experts when needed! We are not born knowing everything but a poodle could not ask for more than a Mom who tries as hard as you do!
And no, I wouldn't worry about a grade 2 patella - many Vet's won't even evaluate a patella until they are fully grown as it is normal for a puppy to have some luxation. But since he has pain in that leg, he very well must have something going on. He may just have a pulled muscle or ligament. There is also one other inherited disease to be considered though - legg calve perthes (not sure if I have that spelled correctly), which is a disease of the hip joint - did your vet consider that?
But I have to say, I do kind of disagree with your Vet about the full activity - I might of even wanted him to wrap the leg so that he could not bear weight on it at all for a few days, as that is the best cure for a sprain, but as it is, I would try to have him use it as little as possible while he is on the pain meds, but that is just my (experienced) opinion....


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## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

Thanks for your kind words!

Yes about checking for Perthes, which was weird looking at his xray.... Because for seven years now I've been looking at my son's X rays because he actually has it! So the second Happy s X Ray popped up I knew he didn't have it. My son's bone looks like a chewed piece of gum.

Thanks again.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Hugs to you, Shelhey! I agree that you are a fantastic poodle mom doing the best you can for your little guy. I hope he feels better on the pain meds and I agree with TinyPoodles to limit his activity for a while. My Maltese has a grade 1 luxating patella on one leg and grade 2 on the other. It doesn't affect her much--she has only gotten her knees out of joint a few times. You usually only need to consider surgery at grade 3 or 4.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I too have thought why is it important to teach some of these commands. For me I could not understand the importance of having the dog walk at your side. Why not let them walk in front? I was walking Dakota recently and he was in front of me. All was going well. All of a sudden he stopped to sniff something. I didn't see him stop and I stepped on him. He yelped and jumped aside. The sidewalk was slanting downwards and I started to fall forward but managed to recover my balance. I am too old to do a header down a cement slope. Dakota seems okay but now I see the wisdom of having the dog walk beside you.

We live and we learn. Hopefully no one is hurt too badly in the process.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

shelhey said:


> Thanks for your kind words!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry about your son - I know more about dogs than humans, didn't even know that the disease was common to both species!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

MiniPoo said:


> I too have thought why is it important to teach some of these commands. For me I could not understand the importance of having the dog walk at your side. Why not let them walk in front? I was walking Dakota recently and he was in front of me. All was going well. All of a sudden he stopped to sniff something. I didn't see him stop and I stepped on him. He yelped and jumped aside. The sidewalk was slanting downwards and I started to fall forward but managed to recover my balance. I am too old to do a header down a cement slope. Dakota seems okay but now I see the wisdom of having the dog walk beside you.
> 
> We live and we learn. Hopefully no one is hurt too badly in the process.



Oh yes, Timi knows that the left side is preferred, but living in the crowded city, she has to walk behind, in front, side to side to avoid obstacles and pedestrians. That is why she uses a wide collar and a stiff wide leash - I give her directions where to go like you would a horse!


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## janet6567 (Mar 11, 2014)

I have two toy poodles, "twin sisters" who are so different. Maggie has boundless energy and loves to play and go for walks. Abbey is perfectly happy to sit beside me or sit in my lap. She doesn't enjoy playing fetch (she'd rather sit in the yard and let the wind blow in her ears) She does go for walks, but is always eager to get home whereas Maggie would walk for miles. They are 10 years old, but have been this way from the beginning. Poodles, like people, just have different personalities. Perhaps the one you have just isn't a good fit for you and your family.


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Bark busters is awful !!!! Their entire way of thinking is to cause fear in the dog and that you are the pack leader.
I flushed 500$ down the toilet wo0rking with them. I ended up training Zoe myself because I wasn't going to put any more money into training if she didn't have any issues.
I am coming late to the thread and it seems that you received great advice.

I just wanted to say since we both have toys around the same age i can tell you about Zoe's activity level.
She does love to chase a ball for hours and enjoys her walks. However, if I give her to anyone else to walk she is quite hesitant and will turn back towards the house. It can be very annoying!
She doesn't mind being a couch potato if you want her to be. She also enjoys being quite active .
This is my first dog so I do not know what is the norm with little dogs.
I would be concerned if she doesn't jump up onto the furniture .... Zoe was doing that right away. She jumps like crazy and I can not keep her from jumping. weather it is high in the air after balls or running on and off the furniture and beds.
I was concerned about her joints , but I could not stop her if I tried. 
I think a vet checking her out is the right thing to do.
Wishing you good luck finding some answers.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

You're a wonderful doggie mom. You are doing everything possible to improve your Poodle's life and yours...to get the whole family together on this....vetting, getting help with behavior modification...(just make sure whoever you use treats him like a porcelain doll. He really mustn't have that kind of trainer with the mentality of "ya gotta show 'em who's boss. You have to be the alpha and put him in his place" kind of crap. You're doing so well with him. 

As far as the patellar luxation, Jose`, my Chihuahua has it. He had it badly...caused him a lot of pain... and had the surgery years ago, which helped a lot.........for a time. That doesn't always hold forever. BUT...as long as I kept him exercised, he didn't have any trouble. The minute something happened where we had to skip hikes and walks for say....3-5 days in a row, he'd start having trouble again. He has it in both knees but worse on the left. 

Now, if the dog is having a bout or an episode of pain, then the exercise needs to be mild...careful, minimum. But if there's not much sign...no stretching the leg out behind him, no limping, no crying, then as far as I understand AND from my own experience, a nice walk or romping in the yard is good. It strengthens the ligaments, tendons, muscles all around that area and it helps hold the head of the bone in the socket better. It doesn't need to be excessive, but regular and enough to strengthen his legs.

My other Chihuahua, Chulita, now passed on also had it but I never knew it until she was quite old. I only felt it slip a little bit when I picked her up one time some certain kind of way or something. She never had a lick of trouble. 

Maurice has a little bit loose there. I feel it sometimes when I pick him up. No trouble whatsoever...ever. (so far, knock on wood) He rip roars around after Matisse, leaps off the stone wall I have in the back yard (only a foot or so high) goes on brisk walks pretty much every day and wrestles and runs in the house. He's a tad loose but I don't know that you'd call it luxating. I haven't noticed that they slip clear out. 

So that may or may not be the issue of why your pup doesn't want to go on walks. I suspect, if the vet doesn't see anything serious, that it may be his temperament, which to some degree can be compensated for with good handling. If he's more comfortable going for a walk across the back yard, start with that. Make it not like a walk, but like a game that you incorporate. Lots of treats, happy, squeaky voice, fun toys...see if you can encourage him that way. But don't be worried or tense. He'll pick up on that and get worried too. 

Keep us posted.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I am so impressed by your determination to do the best for your dog, especially as you clearly have plenty to occupy your time, energy and emotions on the family front already. Many people have posted here about managing mild luxation with careful exercise - the aim is to build up and maintain muscle to support the joint. And once any pain issues are sorted I think finding he right behaviourist to work with will make a huge difference - the lovely lady who ran the puppy classes I took mine to was also a qualified behaviourist, and her insights were invaluable. It helped that she understood human psychology as well as canine, and knew how to use reward based training on both ends of the leash!


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Dogs are tough little guys. Every dog I have ever had except for two came to me as adults, most with no training and lots of issues. They all turned out great ! You can get this fixed, if it is not pain you are dealing with, it can be turned around completely. You are a great poodle mom, don't beat yourself up. Thanks for the update.


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

Oh Shelhey - you are doing a great job! Even if there is more to learn for both you AND Happy, when it is your first dog it isn't easy!! Believe me, I know!! I made heaps of mistakes with Pippin, but we're getting there with her!! The biggest thing about being a good poodle mum is that you care - and you do - and you want to fix things - and you do!! You're not a failure in any way, shape or form! Just learning 

BTW, re the pain thing - we've found out Pippin has a hip problem (thread in poodle heath) so we can sympathise with each other if that is part of Happy's problem... :wink:


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## Towandafox (Nov 22, 2013)

I have a tpoo, Tully, with grade 2 luxating patellas. She loves to run hard at the dog park, but was not all too excited about walks either. Our vet did say that daily exercise was good for luxating patellas because if you build up the muscle around the knee cap, it is less likely to slip out. Her knee cap does pop out on occasion and I would straighten the leg to pop it back in. I read up on luxating patellas and started giving her a daily joint supplement. *The joint supplement has made all the difference. * 

Now if the knee pops out, I notice it rights itself without my help. It also, pops out a lot less often. She also, is no longer weary of walks! In fact, we just finished a trip to Lassen Volcanic Park, where we did at least 15 miles of hiking over 3 days. 

I would try out a doggy joint supplement. Can't hurt!


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Treatment Options For Your Dog's Luxating Patella - Dogs Naturally Magazine


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## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

Thanks everyone! I'll keep you posted. I've been observing him with more detail lately.... Learning more everyday.


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## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

HI everyone,

Wanted to give you an update. I just posted in the exercise section a question that is a little bit regarding what I am updating about.

It's day four since Hap has been on his pain meds. I haven't noticed a dramatic difference in his behavior. (He still isn't jumping) I'm not sure it is enough time to judge, because we are doing a lot of things different anyway, as I mentioned before we are being more pro-active with the training and how we respond to his behavior due to wanting a second dog but wanting him to be better trained first. So I'm not quite sure where I am at in my opinion about the pain meds working or not.... there has been less growling, but I think that's due to us being better, in the habits we are forming. 

Anyway, here is something interesting, regarding him hating his walks. I have been taking the advice of one of the responses to the thread here, and am going to the same place everyday. A fun place, the dog beach on Lake Michigan! So yesterday, he starts yowling and making crazy noises when we pull in. (he only barks when he feels like he is being a guard dog) And when I went to get him out of his sleepypod, he LEAPT into my arms! I would say that's excited. So I"m wondering... hmmm.. that's a change in behavior. 

Forward to today.... He didn't act excited and he was doing his usual hunkering into his sleepy pod, sort of shaking and not wanting to come out.

The difference? You won't believe it. His HARNESS! Today he had it on... I usually put it on at home cuz it's easier, and I've been leaving it on the floor and putting treats around it, and giving him treats when I put it on him. (In the past I never treat trained him because he wasn't food motivated but after 50 tries I found a treat he likes, he's so picky) Yesteday I just forgot to put it on before we got there! So he was acting happy and excited when his harness was OFF. 

So I decided to take it off and walk him with his collar only. It was such a joy to me to see his tail up during our walk! I couldn't quit staring at it I was so excited to see it. 

I remembered that when he got to be older (can't remember exactly, but when he was almost done growing) I did stop using the harness on his walks and only used the collar and I thought he did better. But I went back to the habit of the harness due to being at baseball games, etc and him pulling and pulling SO much because he wants every person he sees to pet him and love on him. 

And with the consistency of going to the same place everyday, I have noticed that he starts getting excited the closer we get. He isn't dramatic or too obvious like some peoples dogs would be, but he starts to walk ahead of me a bit and he normally only did that when we got closer to the car at the end of a walk.

So I guess I have a long road ahead of me to counter condition him on wearing a harness, or do I scrap it altogether? I'm concerned about his neck.. he does pull when he sees people, but he walks nice and loose leash along side of me during the walk.


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## cmarrie (Sep 17, 2014)

I'm so happy to read Happy's update! I think you may have hit on something. He totally hates his harness! Sounds to me like you might want to ditch it and instead help him learn some meet & greet manners. It's something I need to work on with my guy too. He gets so excited to greet someone that he's got no control over himself. It's my fault for not being consistent with insisting on better manners earlier in puppyhood. Never too late though! Keep up the good work, and please keep sharing your updates.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Sounds like you are finding the crux of that particular issue! I would ditch the harness and work on polite leash manners - or perhaps try a completely different style of harness, perhaps one of the very soft ones. Once you start recognising the signals dogs use to communicate it just becomes more and more fascinating - I suspect you are on your way to being hooked!


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## lisasgirl (May 27, 2010)

Does Happy gag or seem to choke when he pulls on the collar? If it doesn't seem to be hurting him, it might be OK. Just work on leash/greeting manners ASAP.

Is this something they plan to address in your training class? They covered jumping and pulling in Archie's group training class - the strategy works well (and getting to practice in a group setting is great) but we need more cooperative strangers to practice with in between training days, haha!


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## mom2Zoe (Jun 17, 2014)

Ditch the harness.
I use a martingale collar, they can not get out of it. They do not pull like with a collar.


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## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

Yes he chokes, and even with the harness he chokes if he pulls too hard! Crazy right? He's so small, and compact, I don't know if that's why. He really pulls long and hard, and it concerns me. I am going to ask my trainer monday morning, and at our class monday night, and my vet next week... I'm gonna ask total strangers anywhere I see a dog. :act-up:

I'll check out that martindale, thanks! I think I will try a different style of the hurtta padded. In the meantime, at least I can take it off at the dog beach and he can have fun... guess now that I know that's why he isn't enjoing the walk it doesn't concern me as much as worrying about him being in pain.

Regarding his other issues: My son has been doing all of his care and feeding. The trainer recommended it to help him see Joey as one of the adults/caretakers. So Joey could be more than just someone who comes along to pet and hold him. (except today he was with his cousin all day, can't expect him to sit home everyday with the dog) It's been wonderful how Happy hasn't growled once. We are practicing having Happy on my lap on the couch, and when my son comes and sits down, instead of growling, Happy happily greets him because my son has a treat for him! 

Happy has growled a few times, at my 14 year old who he never has issues with. It's strange, but it's always when she puts him down. It's like he is saying, "No, I want you to keep holding me". He has done that to me a few times too. Spoiled?


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

> Happy has growled a few times, at my 14 year old who he never has issues with. It's strange, but it's always when she puts him down. It's like he is saying, "No, I want you to keep holding me". He has done that to me a few times too. Spoiled?


It's not strange at all. "When she put him down." Does that mean by force? Did she do this in a dominating or angry way? That is perceived by an animal as an act of aggression...a threat and he becomes defensive, gives fair warning with the growl. If that is ignored or punished, that is why dogs bite. If someone forced you down on your back or side and held you there by force, wouldn't you become defensive? Don't forget...dogs are animals. They don't understand things like that the way you might want them to. I suspect this dog's growling, biting, lack of enthusiasm is on account of having a history of being threatened or forced to do things, _even if unintentionally_. This forceful stuff needs to stop. Why is your 14 year old putting him down and holding him down against his will? This is not a wise thing to do to an animal. What is it she's trying to achieve by doing this? Maybe we can help find a more positive solution that will get the behavior you want without frightening your dog. You can condition a dog to enjoying being held down for a tummy rub for a second or two. But not by force. It can be conditioned or trained in very gently and gradually. It is not a natural position that most dogs would enjoy because instinctively, it's a vulnerable position....exposing their jugular vein to any predator. I *highly, highly recommend *you read read the book, Culture Clash, by Jean Donaldson.

Now, here's a video of how to teach your dog not to pull on a leash. Your dog is pulling because he's getting rewarded for it...in other words, he's getting to go forward, just what he wants. Please watch this great teaching video and explore many of videos by this wonderful trainer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFgtqgiAKoQ


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## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

By put him down I simply mean that she was holding him (petting and snuggling) in the chair and she was done and she set him down. He does this all the time. She didn't even get to set him down, he gets mad the minute you start to move him. I think you very much are over reacting to everything. My dog had never been mistreated by my children.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

Do you have a video of this? Maybe someone experienced could see something that is subtle that is bothering him? It sounds like maybe it's painful to his body for him to be touched/moved.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

shelhey said:


> By put him down I simply mean that she was holding him (petting and snuggling) in the chair and she was done and she set him down. He does this all the time. She didn't even get to set him down, he gets mad the minute you start to move him. I think you very much are over reacting to everything. My dog had never been mistreated by my children.


I am so sorry. I misunderstood what you meant...something about the words and how I must have misinterpreted them I guess. I think you should get a behaviorist in to observe and see what can be done. I'll say no more. I certainly try to help people and try to post helpful videos etc, but it is not easy over the Internet when you can't see the dog, can't see how people are interacting with the dog, can't understand what people are saying and can't hear inflections or voice tones. 

Good luck.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would try the on/off, up/down game - I play it by asking the dog to jump on and off a piece of furniture, but you could equally try it on something very low like a comfy cushion. Encourage him to get onto it, treat, encourage him off, treat again. Once he knows what the game is, introduce a cue - "Up you get!" "Down he goes" or similar, and use it while lifting him onto something a little higher, and encouraging him to jump down onto a safe non-slippy surface, still with treats and praise. When putting him down you then have a phrase ready to let him know what is about to happen, or even to ask him to jump down without being lifted, and can treat frequently at first for polite compliance and then praise with occasional treats.

I have found that many small dogs seem to hate being swooped on and picked up, and equally hate being moved unexpectedly. Giving them a warning, whether by a gesture (I always cup my hand to indicate to Sophy in particular that I am about to lift her up - she responds by standing still and raising a hind leg slightly so that it is easier for me to slip my hand under her) or a word (Budge over in this house means move over and make space for someone else) seems to make all the difference. I just have to say "Down you get" and they jump down - although these days the small sound the iPad makes as it is closed seems to have the same effect! 

As an experiment, it might be intersting to try to give him more, rather than less, autonomy. Our dogs cannot have the sort of freedom they often had 50 years ago, roaming at will all day and only coming home to eat and sleep, but I do think that perhaps we tend to over control their lives. They walk where we tell them to walk, linked to us by a leash, they eat a food we provide, at times we decide, sleep where we choose, get petted when we choose, ae asked to perform tasks and tricks to our commands... Something as simple as letting the dog choose whether to take the left path or the right, or which treat, or whether to be picked up or not, might make all the difference in the world to them. That is probably a topic for a new thread, though.


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## BeBe67 (May 13, 2015)

You are being a good poodle mom trying to cover all your bases! I have had toy poodles for 30 yrs (5 poodles total) and they have all had totally different personalities. Our present poodles are a 9yr old and a 4 month old. Brandie our 9yr old has always been a cuddler and a TOTAL couch potato. She goes out for potty walks but she usually does her thing and wants to come right back in. She doesn't want to play (never has much) she wants to just be held and loves to snuggle. She wants to be touching who ever she is by or sitting with. If you stop petting her she gently nuzzles you until you start petting her again. She likes to be dressed up, likes to ride in her stroller, LOVES to ride in the car. She is such a BABY. We love love love that. My 2 daughters have babied her and she is spoiled. But such an easy keeper. She doesn't care for the other dogs she prefers PEOPLE. Loves most people, but doesn't like some babies. (weird how she likes some but not others) 

Now the 4 month old puppy is a such a little PILL. She is already spoiled to my 12yr old (my daughter is her official MOM) I am care taker #2. She cries if she isn't in the room with my daughter or if the door is shut and she cant go into the room with her. She likes to get on the couch with us BUT she doesn't want to be held or snuggled. Just within a few feet of you. But doesn't want to be touching you. She also has patella luxation. But she runs and plays and loves to play fetch. She is SUPER sensitive to sounds and new things/people. She has excellent hearing and will bark like crazy at unfamiliar sounds. IF someone new comes around she runs under the couch and barks at them..She is shy in a lot of ways. She was an ONLY PUP in the litter, so I think that may have some effect on her. She is QUIRKY to say the least. Smart as a whip, and beautiful. We waited a looooooong time for a black toy female and we love her to pieces already. Having said all of that, just to show how opposite and different each poodle can be. I don't think any of my poodles could stand to hike or walk for a long time. I know Brandie would NOT LIKE that at all. So yes (a small dog) can get plenty of exercise on potty walks and just playing around in the house.

Good luck with Happy. Sounds like you are doing everything you can to help him. He is lucky to have a caring poodle mom  keep us posted on his progress!

BeBe


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## SeoulTeddy (Jan 8, 2015)

Personally, I would ask your 14 year old to stop picking him up for now. I know it's not ideal (I love a snuggle) but the behaviour shouldn't be 'rewarded' (continuing to hold him), yet the growling shouldn't be ignored (putting him down). I'm not sure if that's good advice but it's my two cents. It seems Teddy learned at a very young age to skip growling. This made it very difficult for me to figure out when he was stressed or unhappy. He does give other signs that I now recognise (lying down, yawning a lot, slight stiffening of the body) but it took me a long time to notice these signals so I perhaps exacerbated his behaviour in that time because I was 'ignoring' what he was telling me. Growling is a very obvious and easily understood signal and makes it easier for both you and the dog to communicate with one another. I wish he would growl! Ha! 

I'm very glad to hear Happy is doing well in other areas. These things take time but the feeling you get when you see improvement is amazing. Keep us updated!


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## cmarrie (Sep 17, 2014)

If Happy hates his harness so much, could there be something in the way he's being put down that triggers him? If he doesn't like things going over his head, could there be something in the way your 14yr olds hands come down that make Happy nervous? Or, more likely, Happy might think he's higher on the chain of command and he's just saying, "you don't tell me what to do! I'll get down when *I say I'll get down!

I'm glad you are continuing to work with your trainer. Every little bit you improve will make the next challenge easier to solve.


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## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

Thanks Poodlebeguiled. Appreciate your apology. I know it's hard, over the internet, I totally get it. I do appreciate everyones advice. I learn SO much. Please don't stop. 

The trainer advised my son not to hold him or pick him up, because Hap's growling was mainly at him. So this week he hasn't been, we have been focusing on him doing more of the care taking, getting out his toys, feeding him, doing his bedtime routine. Which, thanks to advice from this thread, is going great, someone mentioned they do the chew snack before bed. I decided to give Hap cues that it was bedtime. So Joey holds his chew stick treat and Hap loves it! So that's been bonding for them. Also, when I am sitting with Hap, Joey comes up to sit next to me, but he has a treat. This way instead of growling, Hap gets excited to see Joey and expects something good. It's been working very well. Which makes me wonder if that's why he growled at my daughter...cuz he hasn't had the opportunity to do it to Joey. Hap has even done it to me a couple times, just very rarely. Which is why I rule out it being pain...it's very inconsistent. 

I do think we need to figure out a cue to get him to know we are picking him up and putting him down. I do think he's just frustrated with us. 

Speaking of inconsistent...this morning I expected him to yelp with excitement and jump out of his sleepy pod because we again, went to the dog beach, and I remembered not to put his harness on him before we left the house. But he didn't. He acted like he didn't want me to take him out of the car seat. Now the only difference I can figure is this.... before when he was excited he had his pain meds 90 minutes earlier. Today, he was due for his pain meds in a couple hours, so it had been 22 hours since his last dose. This makes me wonder.... 

But I wonder am I just stupid? Are dogs moody like my teenage girls? Am I asking too much to expect him to be expressing any emotion and be excited? I don't know... He did okay on the walk, when we get there he had a good time. He doesn't play with other dogs, he doesn't play fetch, he doesn't go in the water...(well he isn't afraid of it, he goes up to it up to the top of his legs, and the waves are pretty crazy lately so I don't know if that's normal for a small dog). I do get jealous of others playing with their dogs, I don't know if it's his personality or him being a toy. But he walks (and races with my son) up and down the beach with us and stops and sniffs other dogs and gets attention from people as much as he can. 

I am planning on getting to read that book a lot this weekend. 

Thanks again everyone! I appreciate this so much.


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

I'll echo what fjm says about cueing a heads up for the pick up and set down. It didn't take long after I got Oliver to find he knew what up meant, and when I'm going to carry him down the several flights to our back garden (he doesn't get to run up and down, not with those lousy angles and slipped hocks and un-great knees), I say up, and he even jumps straight up and inch or two for me to pick him up .

With my last dog who was a similar size to my Tpoo but without all the hair, I figured out early on I was accidentally heimlicking her when I picked her up and set her down with a hand on her tummy. It was really uncomfortable for her. So forever after, I supported her hind end when picking her up/setting her down so her tummy and ribs didn't get all the pressure. This has continued with Oliver.

So maybe consider trying a hands under the chest and hind end set down and see if that could help?

Love how your Happy is so joyful on a leash with his collar. That is really huge to figure out and I LOVED how you described his tail all up !


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

shelhey said:


> -snip-
> Speaking of inconsistent...this morning I expected him to yelp with excitement and jump out of his sleepy pod because we again, went to the dog beach, and I remembered not to put his harness on him before we left the house. But he didn't. He acted like he didn't want me to take him out of the car seat. Now the only difference I can figure is this.... before when he was excited he had his pain meds 90 minutes earlier. Today, he was due for his pain meds in a couple hours, so it had been 22 hours since his last dose. This makes me wonder....
> 
> But I wonder am I just stupid? Are dogs moody like my teenage girls? Am I asking too much to expect him to be expressing any emotion and be excited? I don't know... He did okay on the walk, when we get there he had a good time. He doesn't play with other dogs, he doesn't play fetch, he doesn't go in the water...(well he isn't afraid of it, he goes up to it up to the top of his legs, and the waves are pretty crazy lately so I don't know if that's normal for a small dog). I do get jealous of others playing with their dogs, I don't know if it's his personality or him being a toy. But he walks (and races with my son) up and down the beach with us and stops and sniffs other dogs and gets attention from people as much as he can.
> ...


Shelhey, what you observed about Happy's action/inaction and the timing around his pain meds is a crucial piece of the puzzle. Could be more than one thing going on, which of course complicates things. I don't think dogs are moody like that, though pain can cause them to appear to be so. Does that to us, too....

Please note down that timing for your vet update appointment. To me it seems quite valuable information. You are the farthest from stupid that could be ever.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I had one dog in my lifetime who was not excited to go out, but she was an extremely fearful dog who just found the city to overwhelming. Other than that, every one of my poodles from puppyhood to old age was thrilled to go out. How much they may feel like doing once they got there might vary, but the excitement of going never changes. You might be onto something with him being almost due for his pain meds....


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

He sounds to me remarkably confident for a small dog - mine rarely want to do more than paddle in shallow water, and when a wave came up unexpectedly and soaked Sophy she was extremely disgruntled, and took care to keep me between her and the sea for the rest of the holiday! Considering how easily a tiny dog could be swept off its feet and out to sea I think small ones are very sensible to treat waves with respect.

I think I would start noting down when he has his medicine, when he walks, and how keen he is, and see if a pattern emerges. If only our dogs could simply tell us where it hurt...


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## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

Tomorrow is his last day of pain meds. I am going to time it so that I get to the beach 90 minutes after his dose, so that it's the same as the other day, and we will see what happens. 

I know I'm not wrong about his harness, he doesn't like it. But I don't know if that's the only thing going on. The growling when putting down, the acting hesitant to be picked up... it's all strange. Because he does like to snuggle. Sometimes he chooses to lay a bit away from you, but he loves snuggling too. 

I'm starting to feel overwhelmed. I'm going to meet with our trainer Monday morning for our fourth session. I'm going to tell her I need a break the rest of the summer, just so I can work on everything so far, and work on "up" and "down" cues. So much going on...Because we are starting a six week class Monday night, so I can't be doing that and the trainer too. 

I think I am going to call the vet on Monday, He told me to call him and if I had a totally different dog then we are onto something. I'm not sure I would say I have a totally different dog. So I am gonna call and ask him if I can come in and talk to him after I take another week of observing and doing the dog beach routine. It's a 40 minute drive each way, but I get emotionally refreshed being by the lake so it's been good for me as well. Sometimes one or two of my kids come and we hang out longer. I want continue observing his behavior. I don't want to make any permanent decisions based on five days. 

Hopefully we will get a hot day with a calm lake and can actually swim!! Ugh. Michigan. Weather. Sucks.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Bella was just a lap dog never ran and played, she is 8, since Cayenne came in the house they play all the time, and wrestle a totally different dog. She however, does not really like to walk a lot and will sit down to be picked up. The second dog did wonders for Bella, both are toys.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Just another thought to confuse things even more, not all pain meds work the same for different types of pain, and different individuals.
Try not to feel too overwhelmed though, many of us have had to go through this type of process of discovery to figure out what is bothering our dogs. It can takes months, but almost always the answer comes, it really does!
My biggest mystery so far with my youngest was figuring out why a seemingly perfectly healthy Timi barfed once every afternoon. I was pondering it for the longest time, almost made a Vet appointment numerous times, but was dreading the thought of the "big work-up", feared that they might even suggest an exploratory to see if she had ingested a foreign object that was stuck. But I kept thinking, "no, she can't be sick or in pain, not the way that she behaves." Well finally it I began examining why it never happened at night, only in the afternoon, and finally it dawned upon me - she was eating a dry breakfast, but a wet dinner! Unlike my other dogs, she must not be drinking enough water on her own! And yup, began adding water to her breakfast and she never afternoon vomited again! 
And while Timi is a stoic girl, she would be playing at the dog park, barf, and go right back to playing, I am sure that there are other dogs who feeling queasy would not have wanted to go to the dog park and play at all, and I could have had the same scenario as you. So I am saying although you are probably right that something is bothering him, keep your mind open to other possibilities besides orthopedic. You might try changing foods, or changing the time that you feed him. One of my previous dogs used to get terrible gas pain - she would act like she was miserable didn't want to move all day, and then she would poop, and instantly be a new dog, so changed her food, and problem gone!
Anyhow just brain storming and throwing out ideas to get your wheels turning in different directions, it is of course up to you to decide what makes sense for him!


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

Shelhey, try not to lose hope with all of this. It is overwhelming when you are trying to sort problems out, and of course when you are dealing with dogs who cannot speak such a lot of it is down to trial and error. 

Getting the right cues, pain meds, collar/harness - the list is endless seemingly at the moment! But you are doing a great job so far!! 

Don't forget too that Happy may be feeling a bit overwhelmed with all the changes in his daily life too!!

Cues for up and down are good too. We say to Pippin "you coming up?" when we pick her up and she now gives a little bounce to help the uplift! When I'm putting her down we say "down you go". This differentiates between lie down and up (onto lap/sofa etc). Doesn't matter what you say as long as the association is there and there's no confusion between what you say and any other commands you may use.

Just to give you a giggle, Pippin likes to come and sit between my feet when I'm on the couch. She looks like a baby penguin on it's parent's feet when she looks up at you. We started saying "Aaah, Pingu" (after the cartoon penguin). Now I can ask her to "Pingu" and she comes and settles between my feet!!! So the words don't matter... :biggrin:

Keep working with your trainer, vet and so on and you will get there in the end!


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## shelhey (Jul 16, 2014)

Wanted to update you all on what has been happening with Happy. Last week, being off the pain meds, I managed to make it to the dog beach three times. I didn't notice any drastic change in his behavior. 

I have been observing him much more over the last month, as I have been way more pro active with training, etc. I don't believe he is in any pain. I think he hates his harness(es) and I am working with getting him to eat some wow butter (peanut free peanut butter) off a spatula while the harness is very very near, almost touching him. I'm hoping it gets him to associate it with something good. I bought another new harness, this one has a large head opening so that it won't rub against his face when I put it on him. I'm really hoping it works, as I greatly enjoy our walks. It's usually the best part of my day, besides going to bed and snuggling with my son.


Regarding his growling/snapping, etc that has greatly decreased once we started implementing tips from the trainer, and stopped being confrontational with him. I feel so stupid, that the "trade me" option never entered my head... it's so easy to get him to relinquish something he shouldn't have when you just trade him for a treat! DAH. Much better than getting frustrated, saying "off, off!" and grabbing it! 


That, and using treats a lot more has seemed to help him be more comfortable. My son has been doing his bedtime routine and they are bonding during his chew treat time. He no longer growls when my son comes near when I am holding him. We ask him if he wants to be picked up, instead of just doing it. We got him stairs so he can get up on the furniture. I'm still stumped why he doesn't jump... although I have seen him jump onto the top stair, which is only about 5 inches lower than the actual couch... so that's weird. 

I'm more in love with him now than ever. I regret not spending more time learning/training before we got him. I'm doing clicker training and am really finding it pretty easy. It's been good for all of us. 

We are always talking about adding a second dog, but we are taking our time. My son and I are reading Ian Dunbar's before and after getting a puppy book aloud, and I am reading other recommended books as well as books on clicker training. 

Thanks again poodle forum for your help and support. Appreciate it always.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

you're an inspiration. keep it up.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I love that you are more in love with him than ever - and, as you say, it is sometimes the really obvious things like trading and asking politely that don't occur to us until someone points them out. I remember suggesting, almost apologetically, to an elderly man walking his son's very nervous GSD that she might be happier if he walked between her and other dogs - really obvious when you know the trick, much less obvious when you don't. 

As patk says, this thread is inspirational - you have all come so far so quickly, and I am looking forward to hearing about all the new discoveries you make in the months to come.


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## Manxcat (May 6, 2013)

Well that sure is a great update!

I'm so pleased that things are heading in the right direction for you all and it sounds like you are all very soon going to be able to just enjoy having a happy Happy!

Well done to all of you for how you have responded to your problems with your little fella - it isn't easy to realise you are doing things wrong but huge kudos for putting things right!!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

So desperately sad to hear Happy is on hospital when things were going so well. Holding you all in my thoughts for a good outcome.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

It is indeed amazing isn't it how things can turn around once the dog isn't feeling defensive. That old saying, "You can attract more bees with honey" sure holds true with dogs. I'm pleased to find things are turning around. Keep up the good work!


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Towandafox said:


> I have a tpoo, Tully, with grade 2 luxating patellas. She loves to run hard at the dog park, but was not all too excited about walks either. Our vet did say that daily exercise was good for luxating patellas because if you build up the muscle around the knee cap, it is less likely to slip out. Her knee cap does pop out on occasion and I would straighten the leg to pop it back in. I read up on luxating patellas and started giving her a daily joint supplement. *The joint supplement has made all the difference. *
> 
> Now if the knee pops out, I notice it rights itself without my help. It also, pops out a lot less often. She also, is no longer weary of walks! In fact, we just finished a trip to Lassen Volcanic Park, where we did at least 15 miles of hiking over 3 days.
> 
> I would try out a doggy joint supplement. Can't hurt!


I've read in a lot of forums where people opt for surgery right away for luxating patellas. Personally, I think people are too quick to get the surgery done. In some extreme cases, yes, surgery would probably be best, but not with all cases. My Trixie had grade 2 luxating patella and my vet told me there wasn't need for surgery. Just like with Tully, Trixie's knee cap would pop out on occasion. Even with the knee cap popped out, she would continue to run. Well, it was more like skipping instead of running, but she never let it bother her. She would either be able to straighten it out on her own, and if not, I would straighten it, and she would be back running again. Trixie lived to age 15.


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## Naira (Jan 9, 2015)

Great progress!


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## Charley'sMom (Jun 16, 2011)

What a great response!


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