# Overwhelmed by puppy chow choices



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

What food was the breeder feeding?


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## SteviM95 (Jul 9, 2014)

CharismaticMillie said:


> What food was the breeder feeding?


Purina ProPlan For large breed - puppy chow. She only eats well when I soak it in warm water. Then she will eat 1/2-3/4 cup at a time. She is 13 weeks, 22.3 lbs as of her vet appt yesterday. She was 7 lbs when I got her from the breeder & I could feel her ribs with the back of my hands. I was complaining to the vet how she will scatter her kibble all over the room to get to the 1 treat inside the kong ( I pick it all up & soak it so not to waste it). But if she had a kibble she likes as much as this small breed kibble, I probably wouldn't have to pick it up off the floor or soak it. My vet also says that soaking prevents bloat...but a lot of trainers recommend Kongs to prevent puppy boredom... So many decisions!!!


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

I would definitely get her on a grain-free, preservative-free food. If you google dog food advisory or dog food ratings, you can see the different brands compared. But once you choose a good healthy food, some dogs are just skinny while they are growing! One of mine is still skinny at 3 years old, and the other is more compact and muscular.


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

SteviM95 said:


> My vet also says that soaking prevents bloat...but a lot of trainers recommend Kongs to prevent puppy boredom... So many decisions!!!


For years we wet our Lab's kibble, because it was supposed to decrease the risk of bloat, but I read a study recently that linked wetting the kibble with an increased risk. We also fed him from a raised bowl, but now that's supposed to increase, rather than decrease, the risk. As someone (maybe Charismatic Millie?) said in another thread about bloat, there's really no solid evidence that any of that matters. It's related more to body type and genetics than anything else.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Feeding her 'small breed' usually just means the size of the kibble is smaller..........If you are worried about her not gaining weight/not eating enough, just find a food she likes and perhaps add a 'topper' of a little canned food to make it more yummy/smelly! Many pet stores sell/give away samples for you to try. Also go online to Petfoodadvisor to find ratings and choices. 
I feed dehydrated (Honest Kitchen) , raw (Chicken), and grain free kibble with no problem, but as a puppy my girl was a picky eater too!


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## Bellesdad0417 (May 18, 2014)

JudyD said:


> For years we wet our Lab's kibble, because it was supposed to decrease the risk of bloat, but I read a study recently that linked wetting the kibble with an increased risk. We also fed him from a raised bowl, but now that's supposed to increase, rather than decrease, the risk. As someone (maybe Charismatic Millie?) said in another thread about bloat, there's really no solid evidence that any of that matters. It's related more to body type and genetics than anything else.


RutRo Shaggy; I do the same thing to wet food from a raised bowl. Maybe I won't be in such a hurry to wean him off three meals a day.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I forgot to add that many times when pups are still teething, it hurts to chew, so they prefer a small kibble or softer food!


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

www.dogfoodadvisor.com 

I studied a bunch before picking their food and trial and error cause they're picky eaters!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I also recommend looking at the link referred to by a couple of people and given by Lou. Grain free and free of preservatives. We free feed. Poodles are not likely to overeat. When Lily was a pup she went through a skinny phase because she wouldn't finish meals when left out for a specified time. Our vet suggested free feeding. It has worked out well. Lily is still on the thin side, but not too thin. She eats very well, just burns it off.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

lily cd re said:


> Poodles are not likely to overeat.


Lula, Marcus, Millie and Dharma would disagree!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Lula, Marcus, Millie and Dharma would disagree!


That's funny Millie! Lily just can't overeat I think unless I start feeding her lots of rich people food, she just burns off what she eats so fast. She has as I think Chagall's Mom once put it an "enviable metabolism."


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## SteviM95 (Jul 9, 2014)

Thanks everyone. I had a rough few days because Bindi refused to eat her old food at all - picking out only the new. Her stools were awful. But it has settled down now. At least she will eat this food out of my hand. I am having lots of fun making her do tricks for her food. I am still finding some left over in her kennel, but not nearly as much as the other food - which she was never interested in when I tried to hand feed. I think she likes hand feeding as much as I do. I've read in a lot of places that it is good for bonding! She is so expressive in her actions - when she is focused on my hand/the food - she can make me believe that there is nothing else in the workd so important!! What a goof. Especially when I knew there had been the exact same food sitting in her dog dish for several hours!


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Lula, Marcus, Millie and Dharma would disagree!


Sunny's breeder said the same thing that he would not over eat.....Sunny likes all this great food - organic, grain free, raw, etc., and YES he would over eat. Maybe when feeding a group together, etc., but I see if he is bored he may go and eat the kibble, etc.


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## justaddsarah (Jan 14, 2014)

We might have had the same breeder! My spoo was on proplan as well. He ended up not wanting to eat that kind of food so I ended up switching him to Fromm's and now he's a little piggo. That being said my mom has his sibling (on Fromm's as well) and when we compare their measurements they used to be fairly even, but this last time her pooch weighed 38 lbs and mine weighed 32 lbs. I also use that website that other's had previously posted. Good luck!


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## lgherb (Jul 12, 2014)

In terms of not gaining enough weight, I'd echo the suggestions to try a better grade of food. There really is quite a variety of very good foods out there that offer a better match for his specific metabolism and physiology.

I definitely suggest sticking to a 'large breed' puppy formula if you have a standard. It's not just marketing BS as they tend to have more appropriate levels of calcium and phosphorous to promote an ideal growth rate for larger dogs.

We've been through a few brands trying to zero in on a food that works for Otis, our standard parti. The breeder started Otis and his litter mates off on Blue Buffalo large breed puppy (not their Wilderness line) but switched to ProPlan large breed puppy 2 days bedore we picked him up because her nearest Wal-Mart was out when she went to get a new bag.

So the 1st couple of days, the poor guy had diarhea. Since I wanted to feed him on a higher quality food, I decided to transition him back to Blue Buffaloe, but picked up the Wilderness line assuming that is what she fed him (which I later found out was not the case). Something in BB Wilderness never sat well with him, so I started transitioning Otis over to Taste of the Wild High Prairie puppy. 

All the while, I had been adding in a small amount of greek yogurt and pumpkin puree to solidify his stool and promote healthy intestinal flora. Since I had a big bag of BB Wilderness large breed puppy formula, I figured I could go with a 50/50 mix of the BB and TOTW until I started getting near the bottom of the bag of the BB then fully transition over to the TOTW.

Throughout this time, his stools were hit and miss (even with the pumpkin), so when I discussed this with the vet, she suggested I try Wellness large breed puppy. She had concerns that the 50/50 mix I was giving Otis was causing him to grow way too fast (he gained over 12 pounds in 3 weeks between vet visits) with her worry being that he'd grow disproportionately.

So...we donated the rest of te food we had to the local SPCA and made a hard cutover to Wellness LBP formula. 

So far, the Wellness has been fantastic. Even with the hard cutover Otis has not really had any diarhea. We stopped adding the pumpkin and yogurt after 2 days. He has some stools that are slightly less than well formed, but he has been happy and does not appear to be on any accelerated growth curve.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I was also really happy with Wellness Large Breed Puppy. Lula just now switched from that to Fromm at 8 months so I can feed all 3 girls the same thing. Marcus is eating Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy and actually doing excellent on that. His handler feeds pro plan and he's been going back and forth so much it's easiest to keep him on that brand. Oddly enough - best stools ever on that food - for him! My only complaint is that he has to eat 4+ cups a day. Yet still he poops only 1-3 times and it's so tiny and hard - so *not* what I expected on Pro Plan! That said, once he's finished showing (which should hopefully be soon!) we'll get him on something rated better, though at the same time it's hard to argue with results!!?


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## SteviM95 (Jul 9, 2014)

How do I know a good rated dog food? Bindi did not gain enough weight this month. Its urgent she eat more. Tuesday, I just got her back from her 4 month vet visit, and was shocked that she gained less than 10 lbs (21-28 lbs from 3 months to 4 months, she had tripled her weight between 2 - 3 months [she was just 7 lbs when I brought her home]). I am now making sure she has 24/7 access to soaked dog food mixed with a wet food from the vet's office. My dry dog food is Hills Ideal Balance. Its a natural, preservative free food. Her stools have been awful since I brought her home from the vet. Is this expected after getting spayed? I think the vet fed her one of his foods when she was there (he made her stay overnight)...maybe that is what's wrong with her stools??


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## marialydia (Nov 23, 2013)

I know what you mean about her being thin. Pericles seems thin to me too. The vet says he's lean and that's OK. I wouldn't mind if his ribs were not so bony feeling. But he has good energy, beautiful fur, his teeth are coming in nicely...

On the other hand, do you really think it's not enough weight gain? If she gains another 7 pounds in her 5th and 6th month, before her growth spurt ends, she'll be 42 pounds at 6 months which according to the growth chart that has been cited here, would be around 65 per cent of the final weight which would be 64 pounds...

http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/13694-found-great-height-weight-chart-puppies.html

Just for comparison, Pericles was 18.5 pounds at 13 weeks and now just shy of 17 weeks he's 25 pounds. I will say he's eating better since I changed his food a couple of times. At first I gave him what the breeder fed, but his first two days here he wouldn't eat. I tried topping the kibble with Merrick Puppy food (canned) then started Wilderness Puppy kibble instead, and have added about a quarter cup per meal of Wellness Puppy. He seems to like this. Some days he eats absolutely everything at all three meals; other days, like today, he does not finish. I'd rather have a bit left over. I can't free feed because I have two elderly dogs one of whom is a foodie but is on a highly restricted diet because of insanely high triglycerides.


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

Jack was a skinny minnie for a while there too. He had a phase where all he wanted was Purina Beyond Chicken/Barley. They "updated" the formula recently and his once perfect poo turned to goo. So now he's on Fromm grain free, which Echo and Cookie eat. Darby eats Precise Senior- I'm keeping her on that because it helped her ALT (liver enzymes) come down to near normal range. Not going to mess with that. 

I've tried many, many foods. I like Precise and Fromm the best. Great quality feed, great customer service, and the dogs like it and do well on it. 

Jack is now 18 months and a nice weight, good muscling and no spine/ribs sticking out anymore.


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## AgilityChick (Jul 9, 2014)

I will add to the list of people who have recommended taking a look at Dog Food Advisor. Look at the 4-star and 5-star foods list, and you should be able to find something you can afford, and the puppy does well on.

I have had major issues with food pertaining to my two Border Collies. I had gotten the first puppy from a breeder who was feeding Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy, and I thought it wasn't good enough for "my baby", so I weaned him off that, and onto Orijen Regional Red (yes, the one that's $95/bag), thinking that the more expensive, and higher protein the food, the "better" it is. He didn't have a single solid stool in the entire time it took me to finish off that bag. 

That's when I entered the experimenting phase. I think I tried about 6 different foods over the next year or so, and in that time, I added another Border Collie. This one came from a breeder who fed Purina Puppy Chow (I bet you can guess how I felt about that), so I got both dogs on Wellness Core. They did fairly well on that, but then I started researching raw diets. I got them both switched over to a raw diet, but every time I would work them up to eating pork (which is the third protein I introduced), they would start having loose stools again. I tried all I could to keep them on the raw diet, because I really believed in it, but they just couldn't handle it. 

Just about 4 months ago, I weaned both dogs off the raw diet and onto Earthborn Holistic. It is only rated 4-stars on DogfoodAdvisor.com, but that's OK with me. I will be staying with that, because they both have fine stools, and my constantly-underweight girl is at least maintaining, if not gaining, weight on it.

The vet that I most recently saw after having potentially life-threatening issues with the raw diet understood my concern about feeding the best I possibly could to my dogs. She gave me advice I had needed from the start. She told me that any dog food needs to meet three criteria:
- It has to go with an owner's wishes (in my case, grain-free, and a meat or meat meal as the first ingredient).
- It has to affordable long-term (realistically, I could not afford feeding 2 dogs that weigh between 32 and 55 pounds that $95/bag food).
- The dog has to do well on it (as much as I want to give my dogs the best of the best, if they are so unhealthy that they need to be rushed to the vet in the middle of my work day, I will take the criticism of feeding them a "lower-quality" food that they do well on).

Please don't learn the hard way like I did.


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## Shamrockmommy (Aug 16, 2013)

Excellent post, AgilityChick. 

Also, bear in mind, not all dogs will do well with a 4 or 5 star food. I have one that is a 3 "star" food that my bichon thrives on. ANyting fancier and she's a yeasty mess.

I don't pay attention to the "stars" so much as I check the Ash and Phosphorus levels. Ash below 7% and Phosphorus between 0.6%-0.9% indicate that the meat/meat meal are high quality (contain lots of meat vs. containing more bone than meat). The higher the phosphorus content, the less meat is in the meat meal.

Hope this helps! 
I've had great luck with Precise with my more sensitive tummy/skin dogs, and also I like Fromm (4star grain free) with my other dogs.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Shamrockmommy: I agree with your statement that not all dogs will do well with a 4 or 5 star food. There are so many things to consider. I adopted Sunny at 3 years old from his breeder in Canada -- he was about 17 pounds when I got him, and he was very very lean. He is also a sturdily built mini right at 15". He was also neutered the month before I got him. He has put on a few pounds since I got him, but he is now 6, his metabolism has changed, and although I think he gets LOTS of exercise they are in the form of walks, sometimes free running (not enough probably) and the food I feed him is much richer than what he was on. So, he is a few pounds heavier. although I don't think a poodle will over-eat, generally (his breeder said that, too), what they eat can be very different from a lower quality to a higher quality, low calorie to a high calorie food, so it is just so hard to make general statements. I think everyone here, by sharing their experience, help others when making their decisions. I do know Sunny does better on a less rich food with lesser calories.


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## SteviM95 (Jul 9, 2014)

*Upate*

Thank you everyone. I did visit the Dog Food Advisor link, and my Ideal Balance Puppy food for large breed dog is actually a 4 star kibble. It looks like I will have to go with something else for the adult food, but we look good for this year. I am okay with 4 star food. I wish I could afford more, but I think that is what is reasonable for my budget. Bindi's stools are starting to firm up. Its slow. Not sure if they turned to goo because of the spay or because the vet gave her a food she is not used to - but I do think they are looking better. I really appreciate the puppy growth chart. By those calculations, Bindi is going to be almost at her father's weight of 65 lbs as an adult. Her mother was smaller at 55 lbs. Its unreasonable to think she will be bigger than the biggest of her parents. She was definitely too skinny when I picked her up from the breeder. Her coat was not shiny either. Maybe the rapid initial weight gain was because she was TOO thin then and "caught up"...and now the 7 lbs per month is a normal weight gain for her. I still don't like it that I can feel her scapulas...but I can't feel her ribs with the back of my hands, or with my arms when I hold her against me (I could feel individual ribs on my arms when I picked her up from the breeder). If this food wasn't good, wouldn't I see lethargy? She's anything but lethargic. I am supposed to keep her quiet this week after surgery - no dog park visits or off leash play. Without those outlets for her energy (I shamelessly make sure she has a doggie playmate at least every other day), I'm going crazy. This dog was so bored yesterday that I know she was purposefully jumping from the top of my couch to her dog bed for the fun of it. She did it 6 times in 15 minutes until I figured out how to distract her.


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## AgilityChick (Jul 9, 2014)

By the way, I forgot to post this in my earlier reply but here's a quick trick I learned about the "feel" of a dog at its ideal weight:

Make a fist. Feel the area closest to your wrist (where someone would place a stamp to get into an event). If your dog's ribs feel like that they may be over their ideal weight.
Now feel the area above that (where a ring would rest). If your dog's ribs feel like that they are most likely underweight.
Now feel the uppermost area, close to your fingertips. If your dog's ribs feel like that, they are probably at their ideal weight.

There should also be a definitive "tuck", both when viewed from above behind the ribs and before the hip bones), and from the side.

Hope this helps!


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## lgherb (Jul 12, 2014)

Really good stuff, AgilityChick! (And as a native New Orleanian, absolutely love the name Treme`.)

One thing to keep in mind is that it is okay for puppies to have a reasonable amount of 'baby fat' given that they will have amazing growth spikes throughout their 1st six to eight months. Similarly, there will be stretches where they might look too thin at times. Its all part of puppyhood and as long as the outlyers are within "reason", there should be no cause for undue stress.

To the OP...what should be a concern is chronic excessively soft stool. If that is a problem, talk to your vet to make sure there is not an underlying health issue. A $65 vet visit is a bargain compared to missing a condition that might need to be addressed later at greater cost (other than financial).

If the checkups at the vets office are all the equivalent of an A+ report card, keep looking for the puppy food that agrees with your pet. Don't feel that you need to find a relatively expensive, designer "4-5*" if a more mainstream brand works for your pet. Someone else's "3*" could very well be your pet's "5*".

Also, see what your local pet stores carry. If all they have is the 40# bag of a food you want to try, look for the 20# bag online at one of the major online pet food retailers like chewy's, etc. (Or ask your local retailer to special order you the smaller bag for you.)


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## georgiapeach (Oct 9, 2009)

I used to be quite the dog food snob a few years ago - until I started having boxers, known for their terribly sensitive tummies. I've found that they do better on a more moderate level of protein and fat. Since most of the 5 star kibbles, and even many of the 4 star ones, have high protein levels, that knocks these choices out for me.

My recent rescue, an 8 year old boxer I pulled from my local animal control, isn't even doing well on my usual go-to kibble (Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream). He's losing weight, and I think it's because it doesn't have enough calories for his age. I can't feed him more because that causes looser poo (Lord knows, I don't need that from such a big dog - lol!), so I decided to try an experiment, and got (gasp!) Purina Pro Plan Grain Free, which is much higher in calories, but still has moderate protein. I'm still working on switching him over slowly, but so far, so good. At this point, I'm all about feeding what works. We'll see...

I also got a tip from my boxer forum to try Dr. Mercola Digestive Enzymes For Pets. I found a container at my local Vitamin Shoppe - last one on the shelf! It's so popular, that even the website is out of it right now. Jackson's poo started to firm up after only one day on this stuff! Again, we'll see... Here's a video on why this stuff is supposed to work: Pet Digestive Enzymes | Pet Digestive Health. The information makes sense to me, and gave me a good idea of why so many dogs have digestive issues. If you scroll down the page, you can see what the container of Digestive Enzymes looks like. BTW, I have no affiliation with Dr. Karen Becker or Mercola.


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