# Crusty mouth



## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

Several possibilities come to mind, but can you give more information? Is the inside of his mouth affected (yeast)? Or is it the corners/flews where moisture tends to collect? Pyoderma can be crusty, as can ringworm, but you haven't mentioned spreading. At any rate, those require a vet visit.


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## Theo'sMom (Mar 23, 2011)

It could be a keratinization disorder. My poodle has a keratinization disorder on her carpal pads. My vet says it can also show up on the paws, mouth, nose and genital area too. It's like you describe, hard crusts. It occurs due to excess proteins caused by either zinc deficiency, autoimmune disorder or it could be genetic. 
Chloe was recently diagnosed and we are trying a zinc vitamin and multivitamin to see if it's a zinc deficiency. We first soaked the pads and put an antibiotic ointment on it for two weeks. Then we started the vitamins. Next step would be biopsy, if vitamins don't work.


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## DavidT (Apr 15, 2010)

Hi and thank you for your response.

To answer your questions, it tends to form at the corners of his mouth although on one side it is in the middle btw. corner and nose. The abnormality is about 1/2 to 3/4 " in length. I can get some of with my fingernail or grab btw thumb and 1st finger and pull. I did show this to our Vet who thought it might be some sort of bacteria. It has not traveled to the inside of his mouth so far.

Thank you again !

David


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

It will be interesting to see what this turns out to be. My spoo has a bit of thickening that looks slightly scabby across the top of his nose. So when he licks his mouth and nose it is just above where his tongue goes. I was just sort of thinking it is a bit like dried food or something, but maybe not.

This article is interesting, and says not to pull them off, to use vitamin e oil and let them heal. Ask Dr Carol: My Dog Has Black Crusts Around Her Lips I don't know if it is a similar condition.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

David, if you can, post a picture .........it might turn into a learning op for us here on the forum...........we love to learn new things about our poodles and we all love these 'teaching moments' Thanks!

P.S. Do your have an animal dermatologist you can consult with?


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

I had 3 vets misdiagnose Iris when she had a persistant dry and cracked nose. We switched to a different, old timey Vet who instantly diagnosed Discoid Lupus, an auto immune condition. She was put on proper medication for the remainder of her life. This condition can spread and cause other problems with the dog so I was glad it was diagnosed quickly and treated. Without treatment her nose was terribly painful.

I would think that a dermatology specialist visit might be in order for your dog. Good luck.


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## DavidT (Apr 15, 2010)

Thank you !!

Very interesting article and I think I will try the Vitamin E oil and see what happens.

David


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## DavidT (Apr 15, 2010)

MollyMuiMa said:


> David, if you can, post a picture .........it might turn into a learning op for us here on the forum...........we love to learn new things about our poodles and we all love these 'teaching moments' Thanks!
> 
> P.S. Do your have an animal dermatologist you can consult with?


I will see if I can photograph his condition and submit it.

Thank you !!!!

David


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## DavidT (Apr 15, 2010)




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## DavidT (Apr 15, 2010)




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## DavidT (Apr 15, 2010)




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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I am a firm believer in vet dermatologists, too. They get to the root of the problem fast. I would have to have an official diagnosis.


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## DavidT (Apr 15, 2010)

DSCN0228


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## Theo'sMom (Mar 23, 2011)

Viking Queen said:


> I had 3 vets misdiagnose Iris when she had a persistant dry and cracked nose. We switched to a different, old timey Vet who instantly diagnosed Discoid Lupus, an auto immune condition. She was put on proper medication for the remainder of her life. This condition can spread and cause other problems with the dog so I was glad it was diagnosed quickly and treated. Without treatment her nose was terribly painful.
> 
> I would think that a dermatology specialist visit might be in order for your dog. Good luck.


Viking Queen,
Did you have a biopsy done to confirm? Was it confirmed by bloodwork? I'm interested because of my dog's hyperkeratosis on her carpal pads.
Thanks!


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Are David's photo links opening for others? For some reason I am not able to open them.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

kontiki said:


> Are David's photo links opening for others? For some reason I am not able to open them.


I am unable to open them, as well.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

David,
Your pictures are not being seen. If you have your pics in your computer, you can post them here by clicking on the 'post reply' in the lower left hand corner of the post (NOT the quick reply (QR)button), then scroll down to 'Manage attachments' and click on it ...it will open a pop up which is self explanatory. Easier yet is to just click on the 'paperclip' in the heading......... Hope this helps?


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## DavidT (Apr 15, 2010)

*Pictures finally*

Sorry, had a hard time uploading photos

David


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## DavidT (Apr 15, 2010)

MollyMuiMa said:


> David,
> Your pictures are not being seen. If you have your pics in your computer, you can post them here by clicking on the 'post reply' in the lower left hand corner of the post (NOT the quick reply (QR)button), then scroll down to 'Manage attachments' and click on it ...it will open a pop up which is self explanatory. Easier yet is to just click on the 'paperclip' in the heading......... Hope this helps?


Thank you, this helped me to load photos. (couldnt find paperclip !) Must be "losing it "

david


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Theo'sMom said:


> Viking Queen,
> Did you have a biopsy done to confirm? Was it confirmed by bloodwork? I'm interested because of my dog's hyperkeratosis on her carpal pads.
> Thanks!


I did not have the tests done. Vet said, let's try the meds for a while and see what happens. He was fairly certain what it was. The dog's nose loses it's "pretty little cobbling pattern" as the vet explained and loses the ability to sweat, be moist. Left alone hers developed a fissure which was painful and would bleed. The medication is doxycycline given along with niacinimide, synthetic niacin. It worked pretty well to keep this under control for 14 years. In the last year of her life her nails would split in layers and were very brittle and also painful when split. I got very good at super gluing the layers back together. Once glued together, the. I could clip or dremel the nails without them splitting further or being painful. Sled dog mushers often glue dog nails back together which have split from cold and ice conditions.

Her pads eventually got very hard and grew up underneath the back side of her nails, although they were not sore or split.

Iris' littermate, brother had the same nose issue however he developed full blown systemic lupus. He lived to about 13 1/2 yrs old and his family managed his disease pretty well also.

We notified the breeder of both dog's issues. We thought she should know. She never responded to either of us. Lupus and discoid lupus are genitically linked autoimmune diseases. Thankfully this breeder did not breed that female again. I am not sure if the sire , which was not hers, was ever bred again.

I wish you luck figuring out your kid's carpal pad issue.

Cathy


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

DavidT said:


> Sorry, had a hard time uploading photos
> 
> David


Poor kiddo....that looks painful and very uncomfortable. I echo others...please see a veterinary dermatologist for proper diagnosis and treatment. I have never seen anything quite like that before.

Good luck, Cathy


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## UKpoodle (Jul 22, 2015)

It may be a bacterial infection as it looks like there is some pus in there, which is what could be causing the crustiness as it dries. You said your vet thought it might be bacterial, so I wonder why he didn't prescribe some kind of antibiotic cream, or antibiotics to see if that would help?


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

WOW! That looks awful! Definitely a trip to the Vet is warranted! Looks infected!
It probably should be throughly cleaned and the hair shaved and antibiotics(systemic & topical) & or antifungals depending the DX . Probably would sedate the poor kid cuz it will be painful to do! JMO!


P.S. Google; Lip Fold Pyoderma


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## marialydia (Nov 23, 2013)

My take is that it may be "all of the above".

It sure looks like it's infected to me, but infected on top of something else.

When you first wrote about the crustiness, and about the way it looked, I thought of something I went through with Pericles which I wrote about here

http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/201602-manging-vets-going-your-gut.html

Not because it's in the same place, but it sounds similar. I wonder today if Pericles' problem wasn't in part because of the enzymes and other additives I was giving him, plus food with protein to which he was allergic.

You say that warm compresses help. Could you somehow get a whole bunch off, clip the hair back with a scissors, and put some antibiotic cream on it, just to see if that helps?

Then (this will upset some people) you might want to get away from the raw for a bit. Maybe it's because I lived in developing countries for too many years, but I just don't trust food that is not sufficiently cooked. (Sorry raw food lovers!). It could be that something got into a small cut, and you could go back to it once it's healed.

In any case, this is in addition to visiting a good vet.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I hope you will keep us updated because this is unusual and there have been more than a few possibilities suggested. When I saw the pictures I was very concerned.


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## DavidT (Apr 15, 2010)

kontiki said:


> It will be interesting to see what this turns out to be. My spoo has a bit of thickening that looks slightly scabby across the top of his nose. So when he licks his mouth and nose it is just above where his tongue goes. I was just sort of thinking it is a bit like dried food or something, but maybe not.
> 
> This article is interesting, and says not to pull them off, to use vitamin e oil and let them heal. Ask Dr Carol: My Dog Has Black Crusts Around Her Lips I don't know if it is a similar condition.


Just to inform you that I have been trying the Vitamin E oil and it does seem to be helping. Thank you for the above info. I do appreciate it !

David


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## DavidT (Apr 15, 2010)

Mfmst said:


> I hope you will keep us updated because this is unusual and there have been more than a few possibilities suggested. When I saw the pictures I was very concerned.


The Viamin E oil applications seem to be helping so far ! Thanks for the suggestions.

David


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

DavidT said:


> Just to inform you that I have been trying the Vitamin E oil and it does seem to be helping. Thank you for the above info. David


Great news, keep us posted


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