# COI minis



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I am sure others will weigh in here, but I actually think this is a question for your mentor. As a novice I would think you would want someone to work with to get started and to make sure that your girl really has all the attributes that a breeding bitch should possess. The mentor, presumably an experienced breeder, will be able to make sure you have the necessary health and genetic tests done.


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## mamalion (Aug 8, 2014)

I am a poodle novice, but years ago I bred another breed for confirmation. I will take my mentor(s) advice, but I'm wondering what others think. I believe you are a biologist You must have ideas about genetics in dogs, Lily's mum.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

mamalion said:


> I am a poodle novice, but years ago I bred another breed for confirmation. I will take my mentor(s) advice, but I'm wondering what others think. I believe you are a biologist You must have ideas about genetics in dogs, Lily's mum.


Yes, I am a biology professor, but my specialty is microbiology and immunology. In any species, outbreeding is generally the sounder evolutionary strategy in nature, but dog breeding isn't nature by any means. I think there are excellent line breeders who produce sound dogs and there are excellent breeders looking at reducing COI.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Good question, Mamalion. I am a believer in choosing diversity and I would not buy a poodles that was heavily in bred. Studies have shown that poodles with low COIs live longer and are less likely to get heritable diseases than poodles with high COIs. However, to my knowledge, those studies have been done on standard poodles, not minis. Also, two of the big health problems with standards are Addison's and subaceous adenitis and these diseases are very rare in minis. I'm no expert on this, but it does make some sense to me that COI might be less important for minis. I still think I'd want a low COI, but you make an interesting point. 

Here are a few links that might be helpful.

Canine Genetics and Epidemiology | Full text | The effect of genetic bottlenecks and inbreeding on the incidence of two major autoimmune diseases in standard poodles, sebaceous adenitis and Addison’s disease
Genetic Diversity Test for Standard Poodles - Poodles de Grenier
Inbreeding and Diversity
Inbreeding And Its Effect On The Immune System


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

My own preference would always be to aim for a low COI, especially if one is comparatively new to the breed. 50 years experience, a detailed knowledge of the pros and cons of every major breeding line and most of the minor ones, and a large helping of good luck might enable a breeder to inbreed and still avoid major genetic issues, but any inbreeding is going to further reduce genetic heterogeneity, and adversely affect the immune system.


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## mamalion (Aug 8, 2014)

Thank you for the nice list of articles/links. I have read some of the articles before, but re-reading them is always helpful, and i had not seen the Inbreeding and its Effect on the Immune System before. I actually found that discussion of immunity more compelling than worry about recessives (many evident in minis can be tested for). 

Part of my puzzlement is that COI tend to be low in mini's. So, I think it would be quite possible to breed closely one generation and outcross easily the next to increase diversity. 
I guess the question is more relevant to somone with a great dog who wants to stamp exceptional type than to someone who wants to produce a smart, pretty puppy carefully raised for performance.


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## mamalion (Aug 8, 2014)

Why DNA tests won't make dogs healthier - The Institute of Canine Biology

Here is a link to an article that answers my question.


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

Work with your mentor.

Swab your mini for the VGL Profile.

As it turns out, it is NOT "low COI" as promoted that offers longevity and health. That was a THEORY and the research is now far past that premise.

There are tightly line bred dogs that offer diversity in their pedigree. And outcrossed dog who don't.

Research the Canine Diversity Project. 

Best Wishes,

Tabatha
NOLA Standards


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

The results are now out from the mini poodles that have been tested so far. There is some good news in there. As mention invest in this testing and use it as one of the factors when picking your girls mate. 

Genetic Diversity Testing for Miniature Poodles
(Phase 2 - Preliminary Results)


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## mamalion (Aug 8, 2014)

Thank you, Spindledreams. I have been following the study with interest and am so pleased to see the early results.


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## spindledreams (Aug 7, 2012)

Have you joined the Yahoo or Facebook groups on the Diversity testing?
The Facebook group is where I got the link I posted. The group for those that don't know about it is Canine Genetic Diversity DNA Test (by VGL/UC Davis) Discussion Group The group talks about all of the breeds and their testing and can be very interesting. There is even a group of available diverse standards for both posting males for stud service and dogs for sale from diverse backgrounds.


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## mamalion (Aug 8, 2014)

I have been on the Facebook page, but haven't joined as I am only planning one litter, maybe. Thank you for posting the information; the more public it is the better. It takes hours to ferret it all out otherwise.


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