# Training toy breeds vs larger breeds?



## Mehpenn (Jan 18, 2010)

What is your experience in the differences between training a toy breed puppy vs a larger breed puppy?


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I have to bend over a lot with a toy breed to reward them. So I get a bit of a work out. lol.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I agree - flexibility is a must! The one thing I do think is different with small pups is getting socialisation right, especially with big dogs and puppies. I was very lucky that a neighbour had wonderful, gentle Spinones that played very carefully with my tiny puppies, and taught them not to be afraid, but one or two unpleasant experiences being squashed or batted by exuberant big pups can leave them very wary. Nice, careful adult dogs for puppies to play with and learn from are at a premium, I find.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Lack of flexibility is exactly why I have standards and a GSD rather than small dogs!

This is an interesting topic to talk about though! I have never had a small/short dog as an adult so I don't have a lot of experience with them other than with my mom's mpoo who is on the small side. I find keeping connected with him while heeling has been a challenge for her. Mom is tallish at 5'7". I am 5'6". I find that keeping contact with Lily is easy since she checks in frequently and is close to hip high next to me. Javelin will also be an easy heeler since he checks in a lot. He is far away from waist high right now, but the foundations are there. Peeves doesn't do a super obvious check in since he has such great peripheral vision he doesn't turn his head, but he clearly pays attention since he changes pace with me.

I hope the small dogs folks here don't take this the wrong way, but my general experience with pet owners who want private training to fix behavior problems have their problems because they have excused the dog's poor manners as being because the dog is small. Large dog owners need help because they have tried but used poor techniques to get behaviors under control. Large dog owners, especially if they own a breed that has somewhat of a bad reputation, know they can't let their dogs get away with aggressive behaviors that small dog owners often excuse or explain away with something to the effect of, but she's so small she can't hurt anyone.


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

My PWDs are the size of standards and are what I have been used to the last 15 years. But I could not pick them up if that was needed and when you have 3 dogs, that is a lot of grooming. Plus they were stronger than me and could be a handful when walking.

Thus my getting an mpoo this time. It was a shock to me to bring home this small 5 lb puppy. Poodle bodies and legs seemed more delicate than Portuguese Water Dogs. Even at 14 lbs Dakota seems light and delicate to my big dog senses.

But I can pick him up, it doesn't take all morning to groom him, and when I finally let him on the bed, he won't hog all the space.

At training class, I had to ask for a chair during some of the exercises. I think 14-15 lbs is the smallest I will have. The toys would be even harder to reach to reward and I just would worry about the delicate size.


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## Mehpenn (Jan 18, 2010)

lily cd re said:


> I hope the small dogs folks here don't take this the wrong way, but my general experience with pet owners who want private training to fix behavior problems have their problems because they have excused the dog's poor manners as being because the dog is small. Large dog owners need help because they have tried but used poor techniques to get behaviors under control. Large dog owners, especially if they own a breed that has somewhat of a bad reputation, know they can't let their dogs get away with aggressive behaviors that small dog owners often excuse or explain away with something to the effect of, but she's so small she can't hurt anyone.


We have one small dog, three large dogs. And I admit there is that temptation to let Sadie get away with more than the big dogs "because she's small".. For example if she jumps up on you its not going to knock you down. But it's still unacceptable behavior. Therefore we try for treat her the same as the big guys. 

But do you think it's accurate that we see fewer small dogs in obedience and well behaved as a result of that exact thought process? Which is doing a great injustice to those smaller breeds because they have the same trainability as their larger counterparts?


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

As my wee Poodles are learning to heel (and walk on a loose leash) they have learned to "watch me" when I ask. I don't want them to watch me the whole time they're heeling but rather, to look up at me often. I pretty much train them the same way I did my big dogs. In my earlier days before I knew about PR methods, I used more collar yanks, which I haven't for a lot of years now. But I have most of the same expectations from my little dogs as I did my GSDs, Lab and Doberman. One exception is I do let the little ones put their feet up on people to greet because I've lost the battle of having them ignore the pups when they do that. And they're practically weightless. Of course, I don't like muddy feet up on people. But when I say, "Ignore them when they do that," and when everyone says, "it's okay. I don't mind" and they continue to pat them, I can't train them. They don't tend to do that too much to me because I will ignore them until they're on all fours, but they're still not terribly consistent with it. People don't tend to appreciate a great big heavy puppy of larger breeds doing that so it's easy to for them to learn. 

Otherwise, most of the manners and such, I like in both large and small dogs. I don't like begging behavior, I don't like demanding or pushy behavior of most types. I don't tend to baby them over the top... other than what is natural because of their size. (I guess I sort of have babied all my dogs. Well...I guess I don't know what babied means. lol) There are some things I let slide with all my dogs, large or small as long as they're not something that's too important to me. I do like a pretty well mannered dog...no pushing to go outside. They learn to wait until invited to go out. It's all done with PR methods so it's easy and fun for them. They don't lose their exuberant personalities when these kinds of methods are used. They learn not to beg because pushy behavior doesn't get rewarded. So all that's pretty much the same with any dog.

There are things a lot of people insist on that I don't care about. Getting up on the couch uninvited doesn't bother me in the least so I never taught them anything about that. My Poodles aren't pushy about their food at all. In fact, they sometimes don't even come to their bowl when I put it down and don't eat. So, why would I ask them to sit and wait for their food? LOL. Some people will only play tug when they instigate the game. Not me. I figure if my friend calls and asks if I want to play tennis, I will. I don't insist on always being the one to invite. My dogs have not become pushy...not any of my dogs from asking me if I want to play. Sometimes I'm too busy and I tell them, "not now, but maybe later." And they get it.

Socializing is extremely important to me in all dogs. Some need more than others. My Doberman, for instance needed more than these guys do simply because of the breed traits of natural suspicion of strangers. He had to learn the difference between friendly strangers and intruders. He turned out beautifully....lovely with people...not outgoing, rather reserved at first, but then friendly in a little while after meeting someone new. He had a stable, confident temperament and was absolutely never the type to fly off the handle with humans no matter what was happening. These Poodle guys of mine are naturally friendly and outgoing so it doesn't take quite as much as it did with my Dobe. But to err on the side of caution I would always recommend lots and lots of socializing at an early age....well planned, safely carried out exposure to all kinds of people and things, environments etc. No flooding or frightening but positive experiences complete with treats attached. lol.




> But do you think it's accurate that we see fewer small dogs in obedience and well behaved as a result of that exact thought process? Which is doing a great injustice to those smaller breeds because they have the same trainability as their larger counterparts?
> __________________


I think there are loads of small dogs in obedience, from what I've seen. There are all kinds of people with varying degrees of expectations of their dogs, from show dogs to pets.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Mehpenn said:


> We have one small dog, three large dogs. And I admit there is that temptation to let Sadie get away with more than the big dogs "because she's small".. For example if she jumps up on you its not going to knock you down. But it's still unacceptable behavior. Therefore we try for treat her the same as the big guys.
> 
> But do you think it's accurate that we see fewer small dogs in obedience and well behaved as a result of that exact thought process? Which is doing a great injustice to those smaller breeds because they have the same trainability as their larger counterparts?


Mary I see a mix of small and large dogs in my club classes, but the folks there are pretty dedicated performance people. I also see plenty of good working tpoos and other small dogs like min pins at obedience and at agility trials. One of the best agility runs I saw at PCA the last time I was there was a blazing fast tpoo on the novice jumpers course. They finished the course in under 20 seconds with no faults. It was awesome.

I can't say that bigger dogs get more training than small dogs among pet owners in my area. I was just talking the other day with someone about all the dogs in my neighborhood who I only know by their barks because they never get walked. Most of them sound big but I have no idea what many of them are. A few sound small and I've seen a couple of yorkies and poms being walked in my neighborhood.

It is sad to see anyone write off doing good training of their dog even if they just have the dog as a companion and don't plan to compete. My mom has a rally novice title with her mpoo and she will go on in rally with him, but I don't think she will do obedience. He is very attached to her and she has problems getting him to do the stays. Interestingly when they were at my novice class on Friday I suggested she take him off leash to do the figure eight and he did really great heeling. Many dogs are better off leash heelers, but he has been very distracted having me teaching the class so far. He has come a long way in his understanding that I am not there to play.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

My dogs are trained very well, they don't jump on people, as they won't go to them until they are really comfortable, they the do put their feet up, as the guest says oh it ok. I have been lax on training some things since they are so small. When guest first come in they have to sit and stay, and no bark. When they do something wrong, I just say NO Embarrass in a stern voice, they go back an sit.

I have trained a lot of my friends small dogs, not large one. But the friends won't follow through, because they are so cute. When they bring them to my house it takes about 3 times, and for me the dogs will listen. My friends say it is my deep voice.


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## ApricotsRock (Jan 10, 2014)

I have to say Rookie does the watch me command very well, even when we are walking in a crowded place with lost of distractions. So event though he doesn't hit my knees, if I look at him he can look back at me and we work it.

Question: Do you carry treats on your regular walks to get attention in a crazy situation, i.e. random unleashed dog comes charging? Or anything like that? Or just carry treats anyway?


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I usually have treats in case we are dealing well with extra distractions, but not to lure back attention. I always take kibble in my pocket when walking the puppy though.

I have used my treats to help other people with their dogs on occasion as well.


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