# Standard's Prey Drive - Small Dogs, Yikes!



## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Henry has a very intense prey drive. This can be problematic at the dog park because he obsesses over, stalks and chases little dogs. I am concerned that he is going to hurt one. However, I don't feel that I am necessarily in the wrong because there is a separate area for small dogs and the small dog owners often choose to be in the large dog area. Granted, if I see him obsessing I do call him back to me and he has good recall and will abandon the little creature...for about 2 minutes 

Does anyone else's spoo have this prey drive that causes their dog to obsess over and chase small dogs as well as cats? How do you deal with it? I think that Tiger will be like this too. I haven't been around him much the past month as he is living with his handler, but before I sent him out I noticed that he would pounce at cats and small dogs like they were squeaky toys! :scared:


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## NOLA Standards (Apr 11, 2010)

Both B and Lombardi (and Rose) have serious prey drives.

Thank God the cat moved out. Funny story -but he did indeed move out, ha!, and now lives across the street. Flattens his ears, swishes his tail and runs when I call him.

Anyway, this past week a fellow walking his small ball of fluff along my fence (I live on a corner lot) picked his dog up and held it over my fence, above my Krewe's heads (Annie, B, Lombardi and Marques)!???!

Scared the life out of me! All I could think was, OMG, Lombardi and B are going to think it's their stuffed animal (they have a fluffy white used-to-be bear). I yelled at the guy and yelled at the dogs. It distracted them (the dogs) and him (the guy). He mumbles "I'm sorry." as I screech, "WHAT are you thinking?!"

I put up security/guard dog signs.

All my guys are good off leash one on one with me. Off leash together they are like small children...DEAF to the commands/orders/requests of their parents. :heeeelllllooooo:

Tabatha
NOLA Standards


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Might it have more to do with early socialization, CM? 

I think that somewhere, somehow, my two litter brothers must have gotten used to being around small dogs. I never saw anything other than normal dog interactions from them . . . even around the small dogs. 

They would only chase them if the smaller dogs ran, but even then it was more of the standard 'dog chase'. Never leading to anything else.

How would u deal with it??? Boy, that would be a tuff thing to train. I have seen a dog 'encouraged' to exit a dog scrap thru an e-leash. And it was very effective. But not to everybody's taste.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

ChocolateMillie, when your dogs fixate, are they staring like they want to play with the small dog/cat or are they staring intently like they want to eat it? My standard always wants to play with cats. We have a neighborhood cat that visits our backyard. I let Leroy out and he runs over to the cat all happy with his tail wagging a mile a minute. The first time he did it the cat hissed and slapped his face, so he learned really fast not to get too close. He'll just walk around the cat or lay next to it, hanging out.

My cousin has a small chihuahua that my standard thought was big as he was, or maybe he thought he was big as a chihuahua, because he tried to play the same way he plays with big dogs. The chihuahua put Leroy in his place and he learned to respect the little dog. Maybe your dogs need a little doggie teacher to teach them some manners! lol


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

CM, My last standard was horrible with cats. She never actually hurt one, but I resorted to having a cat side of the house and a dog side. I did not trust her at all around the cats. It was the one thing I did not like about her. My whippet has an enormous prey drive for small running dogs. I cringe when I see one in the dog park because I know my whippet will be off rolling the little thing in two seconds. Luckily, he never puts his mouth on them, just catches and rolls, over and over. Like you, I figure they shouldn't be in the large dog area, especially with a sight hound in there. Echo's eyes are so incredibly good that he can spot one 100's of yards away. You should see him scope them out bobbing his head back and forth to get a fix on them. Then off he goes. If they are small and tan like a rabbit and run - watch out! 

Bonnie has a strong prey drive and a bold personality, which makes her a great ball catcher. When I got her the first thing I did was introduce her to our two cats and their sharp claws. One swipe each when she was young taught her that cats come with weapons. She does jump around them trying to get a reaction, but she gets just short of swiping distance. The worst she has done is purposefully pounce on their tails while their backs are turned. I don't worry she will hurt one like I did with Clara, but Clara did not have cats around her first year of life. The cats still prefer to stay in the safety of the back of the house, but I leave the hallway door open now. 

Small dogs should not be in the large dog area of the dog park and visa versa. They are separated for a reason. The only small dogs that seem to do well in the large area are the Boston Terriers. They can hold their own. 

I do not think it unusual for standards to not be particularly good with small running dogs and cats. I think in order for them to get along well they must be introduced when young puppies. Some spoos do get along well with cats, but they are usually the laid back types, not like my pup.

Oh, my goodness. You should have seen Bonnie going after a huge lizard that got into the garage. The lizard was able to get away only by hiding between the cracks of some book boxes. My whippet Echo couldn't have cared less about the lizard, but he waits every morning and evening for the squirrels to make their rounds on the telephone wires. God help a squirrel that slips into our yard.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

As an owner of small dogs, my concern would be less for the dog park than all the other areas where dogs can interact. A sudden tug can easily pull the leash from your hand. I would say your dogs need to be introduced, under careful control, to as many confident small dogs as possible, so that they learn to recognise them as dogs - smell and body language should do it. I had a papillon puppy badly hurt by a greyhound that was leashe at the time - dogs can move very, very fast. And when they are together the pack mentality takes over. Early socialisation is best, of course, but it is not too late to work on it - yet!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

fjm said:


> As an owner of small dogs, my concern would be less for the dog park than all the other areas where dogs can interact. A sudden tug can easily pull the leash from your hand. I would say your dogs need to be introduced, under careful control, to as many confident small dogs as possible, so that they learn to recognise them as dogs - smell and body language should do it. I had a papillon puppy badly hurt by a greyhound that was leashe at the time - dogs can move very, very fast. And when they are together the pack mentality takes over. Early socialisation is best, of course, but it is not too late to work on it - yet!


Henry is fine on a leash because I always know if he is about to pounce on a small dog. It is very obvious. He freezes and fixates first and that is when I hold his collar and step back. The only incident where this typically happens is if I am talking to a neighbor or friend while walking the dogs who owns a small dog. I don't think we are at particular risk of him pulling my leash from my hand.

Henry was very well socialized, but was not around small dogs and cats much except puppy class and all that good stuff. We don't own small dogs, never will. My whole family is very allergic to cats so we avoid them as much as possible. As far as socializing him, well, I just don't think that I am going to successfully train the prey drive out of my dog...He sees little dogs very often now that he goes to any given dog park a few times a week.

Now, the interesting thing is that so far none of the small dog owners ever get mad at him. Usually they think he is hilarious and they smile at him. 

Someone else asked if he is acting like he wants to eat them or like he wants to play with them. I am not sure, to be honest. With cats I am confident he thinks they are prey. With small dogs, he does sometimes do a play bow, but once they start running he really will roll them over at a high speed. Yikes!


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

At least you know your dog's behavior so that you can prevent any accidents from happening. It's not your fault when people are bringing little dogs into the big dog area when they know better.

As outwest mentioned about bold personality + prey drive = great ball catcher; I do not see this trait in my dog. It's interesting because he is very laidback and will only go after toys/fetch when he's in the mood. Otherwise, you throw something and he just looks at the toy and you like 'eh... whatever...' 

I always thought "You'd make a terrible hunting dog!!" He could care less about balls. Perhaps this is why he is great with cats and little dogs, in addition to being socialized with them at a young age. Later on I noticed he MAY make a good hunting dog because he has a very soft bite and fixates the heck on squirrels and birds! Sometimes I wish he was a little more exuberant with ball chasing but his low prey drive works for us because we have cats! As long as you know your dog, having a high prey drive isn't a negative thing.


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## 2719 (Feb 8, 2011)

ChocolateMillie said:


> Does anyone else's spoo have this prey drive that causes their dog to obsess over and chase small dogs as well as cats? How do you deal with it?


Yes I have a poodle that obsesses over our cat and small dogs. The cat now resides upstairs out of bounds to the poodles. If she sees him through the railings she jumps up and stares at him. She also stops whatever she is doing when she sees any animal on television and stares fixated on the tv., and she looks out the front door patiently waiting for a squirrel to pass by and then she barks up a storm.


I know you asked if anyone had a spoo with prey drive...but what about Mini and Toy owners does anyone have one with a prey drive? Do Toys live well with cats because they are the same size?

Misstarry is all talk and no action though. When I bring her upstairs for a bath she runs to the cat and stares at him...thats it...just stares. I just wish that the cat would get it through his thick skull not to run. If he takes off all my dogs will bark and get frenzied.

Years ago when I had Suzy she also had a high prey drive. She had to sit by the door when she came in if she was wet. The door was near the basement steps and if she was sitting there and the cat came upstairs...she gave it the look of death...like one more step and you are toast! But she never acted on it.


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## cavon (Aug 10, 2010)

Finnegan has a high prey drive, but he is okay with my cats - IF - they stay on their stools! As soon as they get on the floor the chase is on! I don't know that he would purposely hurt them, but I don't take any chances, he is never left alone with them.

CM - get Henry out lure coursing!!!! He'll earn his title quickly!! Finnegan loves it! I just pick up his coursing jacket and he starts dancing around!!


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

truelovepoodles said:


> ...know you asked if anyone had a spoo with prey drive...but what about Mini and Toy owners does anyone have one with a prey drive? *Do Toys live well with cats because they are the same size?*
> ...


In short, not necessarily. 

Two of my three miniature poodles are _obsessed _with cats (and squirrels for that matter). I should point out that, a) I don't own any cats, b) I don't like cats, and c) will never own any. The two culprits were both raised with cats (breeder), although I'm sure they don't remember. 

Their prey drive is _my _fault. I tend to let them out whenever the neighbor's cats are crapping in my garden (back fenced yard) and I don't discourage the behaviour. Did I mention that I don't like cats?  So, I don't think size matters when it comes to prey drive, because I don't think dogs stand around looking in the mirror to determine their size relative to other species or dogs. LOL After all, aren't certain breeds are _bred _for a strong prey drive, such as terriers and sight hounds? 

IMHO, this is another instance where training and socialization are key. Pippin is easily fixated on other dogs and we do a lot of redirection. (Of note, he's a miniature poodle and not a large dog, but he doesn't know that.) I've noticed it's worse when he's frustrated or full of pent-up energy, ie., we have missed our exercise (runs/walks) due to bad weather. So, he gets _lots _of exercise and redirection. He's also my best retrieving poodle! ETA: I know sight hounds are _notorious _for chasing cats and this is an inherent behaviour (and not surprising). They seem to focus on the movement rather than the species (I think). But some are able to live with cats and other small animals, including dogs. 

My Minis interact with all dogs in the same manner, regardless of size. (Although we've never encountered an Irish Wolf Hound or a teacup anything.)


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think there may be some interesting US/UK differences here. We tend not to have dog parks, and especially not separate areas for large/small dogs. Parks and other open spaces are generally off leash for all, as are foot paths and other walking areas. A dog that is not safe with other dogs and animals - if owned by a responsible person - is likely to only be allowed off lead in an enclosed area where other dogs can be excluded, but the regular off-leash contact seems to mean most dogs cope reasonably well. I do know of a Weimerana that killed a duck in a park near where my sister lives - his owner was so berated by the local duck-feeding residents that from then on he muzzled and leashed the dog when walking it there!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Dogs are not even allowed in the city parks here because too many people left the poop lying around. When they banned dogs from the parks they made the dog parks. They are allowed in the foothills and mountains, but never off leash. We don't allow off leash dogs because of all the irresponsible dog owners. It's sad.


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

Sonya has pretty intense "fixation" on certain small dogs. She grew up with a cat so she isn't particularly interested in them. But, like you CM, the problem is when people bring dogs into the dog park that really shouldn't be there. The park we go to has a small dog area, and un-neutered males are not allowed. To this day, Sonya has only ever "fixated" on two dogs. One was a small un-neutered Chinese Crested and the other was a small, un-neutered male chihuahua. Sonya is spayed, but for some reason tiny un-neutered males set her off. Based on her mannerisms and body language, I really think it is just obsessive play and not actual "I want to eat you!" behavior, but it still concerns me. I can call her off, because her recall is great, but then she is right back at it. 

The Chinese Crested's owner was a total bee with an itch about it, and I just bluntly told her that un-neutered males weren't allowed in the park and she should leave. Her dog was also highly un-social, and was scared to death of every dog in the park, not just Sonya. I told her dog parks aren't for training or socializing, that they are a place for well-trained, well socialized dogs to play and have fun and that if her dog didn't like other dogs and didn't like to play that she was being a horrible owner for forcing him into a situation like that. Agreed, I kind of went off on her (this was after she went off on me; I don't handle blatent rudeness very well). But she took her dog and left which was best for everyone. 

The Chi's owner was really mellow about it and honestly didn't really pay it much attention to what was going on. I overheard her talking to someone on the phone saying that she had just picked up the dog from a rescue!!!! Who brings a dog they don't know and just met to the dog park anyway? 

In neither case did Sonya physically hurt the other dog, she was just a total nuisance and wouldn't leave them alone.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

Sookster, your post reminds me of something I read a few weeks back before Merlin arrived. It's natural to think an intact male dog would be "top dog" or even feared by other dogs, but that's not often the case. Being intact can often trigger attacks by other dogs, male and female alike. Go figure. 

When I brought Merlin (retired stud dog) home, we didn't go out much until he was neutered. I'm glad I was cautious.


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## Marcie (Aug 2, 2011)

My toy poodle went after a deer and the pomeranian caught a possum. Thank goodness he dropped it when commanded to do so, those critters can be mean. The toy didn't catch the deer so no worry there. It must have been the venison dog food I was giving her.


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## PoodlePowerBC (Feb 25, 2011)

My last Spoo was the same as Henry. But ... he was scared of cats  He would only go after them if a person was holding the cat. So far, Russell will chase a squirrel, but not a small dog. In fact, small dogs intimidate him a lot of the times. My BF has a 6 lb Yorkie, and Russell just tends to ignore her. But to be honest, I have heard of quite a few Standards with strong prey drive, even some with a LOT of socialization! I knew of a pet trainer that couldn't take her Spoo out without a leash because of her prey drive, which included small dogs, cats, rodents ... anything that darted about.


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## jade cat (Sep 22, 2009)

Eddy has a strong pray drive, he likes to chase small furry animals, he has not got any yet but loves to chase!!! We have a cat that chases Eddy and she hides and jumps out at Eddy it is soooo funny, she is very much a mummy cat. 
But when out, Eddy seems totally set on protecting his house from all other cats he will get in a tizzy when the local cats sit on our fence taunting him!!
Eddy does not give chase to small dogs but he does play a tad too much like he is playing with one of his big friends, so I keep Eddy on a lead around small dogs just incase he squashes one!! 
Oh just for our UK members it looks like a few parts here have outbreaks of Mixamytosis (SP?) So you might find your dog actually being able to catch the odd rabbit at the mo.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Mixy is more or less endemic here in the North West. As long as the dogs finish the rabbits quickly, I feel it is a merciful end for the poor creatures.


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## phrannie (Jan 8, 2011)

*They can learn to leave small dogs alone, but it's a lot easier if you can work with them everyday, and it's intense training for the owner. Moj is high drive GSD, and anything that runs is HIS. When my mom died, her Westie came to live with me. I simply let her free, and put Moj on a long line. Everytime I saw him focusing on her, I'd give the line a good tug with "Leave her!!!"....that graduated to him being free also, with the "LEAVE HER!!"...but I swear I didn't take my eyes off him in the field for 2 months. Today his best friend is a Pug...I still have to remind him if she gets the zoomies...but it's just a reminder anymore. He even learned to leave a stray bunny alone, after the small dog stuff (tho I could never teach the Westie to leave the damned bunny alone ). 

Regardless if small dog owners have their small dogs running in the big dog part of the dog park, there'll still be hell to pay if he hurts one...but it may be a great opportunity to practice his "small dog manners"....

p*


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## Lilith (Sep 29, 2010)

Marcie said:


> My toy poodle went after a deer and the pomeranian caught a possum... The toy didn't catch the deer so no worry there. It must have been the venison dog food I was giving her.


LOL! Hahaha! I had a cat once that used to attack the cows that lived out back. We used to laugh that a good steak must be worth the risk.

My spoo has very different reactions to small dogs & cats as other small animals, and I pay attention to these. Small dogs and cats mean PLAY PLAY PLAY. Lots of tail wagging, play bow-ing, leaping in circles, etc. Rabbits, birds, chickens = ? Food, probably. Rigid body, rigid tail, totally fixated. I worry about that response, because it seems hunter-ish. Lili has such a soft mouth I don't know if she'd do any harm either way, but don't intend to find out.

Just this morning I had my dog on the beach (Maputo's 'dog park' of sorts) and she played with 2 unfamiliar dogs her own size and 2 unfamiliar dogs that were probably 8lbs tops (Lili is 45lbs). I see no difference in how she plays or reacts to other dogs, regardless of size. A cat also wandered rather close, and Lili's reaction was identical to her reaction to a dog approaching. The chickens that were wandering on the sand dunes near the lunch place (which does indeed sell fried chicken) were a WHOLE different story....!


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I would not trust either of mine anywhere near chickens - or any other poultry. I visited my sister soon after she moved house - she had warned her neighbours who keep chickens that dogs would be visiting that weekend, and they did not do anything to reinforce the fence through which the hens strayed into my sister's garden ... Poppy was off after them before I had even registered they were in the garden, and the poor hens, who were as usual gathered under her bird table, got the shock of their lives. Chap next door spent the afternoon blocking the holes in the fence ... and I know to check before letting the dogs out!


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