# How to Switch to Cooked Diet?!?



## SpinningBunnyFluff (Feb 9, 2018)

I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed right now. I've been trying to figure out how to build a balanced diet for Snow without anything that he might be currently reacting to in his previous dog foods. 

When he was a puppy, I feed him Science Diet Large Breed Puppy and then switched to Science Diet Large Breed around when he turned 1 year old. He's had a tendency to chew at his tail and a few other spots for as long as I can remember, and has had some instances of hot spot as a result. He also developed Hyperkeratosis on his nose. 

I didn't feel too satisfied with being told to just give him an antihistamine, and made the switch to Nutro Grain Free Limited Ingredient Large Breed. I saw a reduction in his symptoms with this food and have been feeding it for several months. 

When he developed bloat with twisted gut a couple weeks ago, we were instructed to feed him a bland diet, then gradually switch him back to his regular food. I made the startling discovery that while on the bland diet, his nose completely cleared up, and I realize now that he wasn't chew at his tail and other spots as much. As I suspected might happen, returning to his regular food has also resulted in his symptoms getting worse again. I'm seeing a lot more tail and other spot chewing as well as the sides of his nose starting to look a little chapped again. 

I made up a spreadsheet with the different ingredient from each food to try to help narrow things down, but I'm not sure it's helped all that much. I do know that Ground Turkey, Rice (white and brown), Pumpkin, and Braunschweiger (Pork and Pork liver mainly) which was used to wrap his pills all seems to be on the safe list. From what I'm reading these aren't enough to give him a balanced diet long term, but I'm not too sure about what I need to add to make it a balanced diet. So many of the things that I'm seeing on various lists for home cooked diets include many things that are also on the list of common allergens in dogs. 

I need something that is going to be fairly simple and straightforward, but not time consuming. I'd be okay with cooking up the main mix once every one to two weeks and then portioning it out for meals. I'd be fine with measuring out a supplement for vitamins and minerals to sprinkle on each meal rather than putting it in while cooking, but not bottle after bottle of this that and the other thing. 

So can anyone give me some help figuring this out? Links to websites you found helpful, recommended recipes, recommended supplements, etc. Thanks!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I home cook for three large dogs, so I do a lot of cooking. I also made the switch because of health issues.


Rather than doing a guess for what Snow can and can't safely eat (which is what you are doing by your process of elimination spreadsheet) I would get a NutriScan analysis done. It will tell you what works and what doesn't.


Once you know what you can feed you will be able to build a nutritionally complete diet. There are some programs that will tell you how much to feed on a per body weight basis to make a nutritionally complete meal plan. I don't have one myself since I don't think there is one for Macs, only Windows. 



I just happened to wander out here to where my computer is to look at the weather information for my backyard weather station and am not really wanting to stay up long enough to explain how I manage the logistics of this but when I am really up in the morning I will add more information for you.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I also cook for my animals. The best advice I found was on DogAware.com: Diet & Health Info for Man's Best Friend the basic principles are pretty straightforward.

1 Feed muscle, organs and ground bone (or a suitable calcium supplement) in a ratio of approximately 80:10:10 by weight (or the equivalent amount of the supplement). Liver, especially beef liver, is an important source of nutrients but is very rich - about half the organ meat should be liver. 

2 Feed as wide a range of proteins as possible - beef, chicken, lamb, turkey, fish (especially oily fish), eggs, etc, etc. Avoid any that cause problems (Sophy can't tolerate turkey) but still try to use as many as possible.

3 Well cooked or pureed vegetables - up to 20% by weight - can help to provide vitamins and micronutrients. No onions, and not too much green leafy vegetables. Pumpkin and sweet potato provide fibre.

4 Rice and other carbohydrates provide calories, but are comparatively low in nutrients - 

You can check the nutritional content of what you are cooking on the USDA food composition database https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/, and compare it to AAFCO and other recommendations. 

I buy a prepared petfood mince that contains offal and ground bone, and cook it with a few vegetables, fresh or frozen depending on what I have. I buy chicken, beef, lamb and salmon, and cook two or three different together meats at a time. I don't add any rice or other filler - my dogs are toys and get quite enough calories from the meat and veg. I did a lot of research when I first started, and occasionally check up again, just for peace of mind.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Home cooked is a great way to go!

Here are some helpful articles:

Home prepared dog food
https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/i...Dog-Food-Nutritional-Information_20568-1.html

Carbohydrates and Your Dog's Digestive System
https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/13_10/features/Carbohydrates-and-Your-Dog_20103-1.html

Dogs evolved to love starch
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesal...-people-canines-evolved-to-love-starchy-foods


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

My dogs are intolerant of rice so we use pasta instead since they are all okay with wheat. While there isn't much "nutrition" in carbs they are important in providing caloric energy which will promote using the other foods for the amino acids, vitamins, minerals and so forth. A very low carb diet will promote using protein for calories rather than cell work of making new protein, maintaining muscle tone etc. Through their coevolution with us dogs have become more omnivore than carnivore in comparison say to domestic cats that are obligate carnivores.


Dogs need a fair amount of calcium so you need bone meal or something similar. I also use sea kelp powder for iodide and other electrolytes. I add a krill oil capsule once a day as well. I also highly recommend canned pumpkin. I am using the wrong computer right now, but when I get a hold of the other one that BF has right now I will post my recipe..


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

You are right, I should have been clearer, Catherine. I do feed carbohydrates - starchy vegetables like sweet potatoes, treats made with rice and flour, etc, etc; it's just not part of the recipe for their main meals. If I were feeding a bigger dog it probably would be, but at only 300 - 350 kcals each a day it is easy to feed a mostly meat diet.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Here's what I feed my dogs:

First, variety is good for them. I may feed the same thing for 2 or 3 days in a row, but in general, they get a variety of different foods. 

My dogs get a combination of meat (or fish or eggs) and starch plus a calcium supplement every day. Sometimes I add some vegetables or legumes too.

Here are the specifics:

In the meat category: ground turkey, ground beef, boiled meat, tilapia, canned salmon, hearts (beef, turkey or chicken), liver (beef, turkey or chicken), gizzards (turkey or chicken), eggs. All of my meat is purchased directly from farmers who use humane and sustainable practices.

Starch: White bread and potatoes are their favorites. In addition, I sometimes give them pasta, rice or couscous. Bread works well if I have boiled the meat -- just mix it into the broth and meat. For the potatoes, I use frozen shredded potatoes or spuds, or a boxed latkes mix.

Calcium supplement: I sometimes use ground egg shells and sometimes a commercial calcium supplement (available in pet stores).

Vegetables/legumes: My boy Bob (RIP) loved raw apples and bell peppers, so he got plenty of those. Sam and Cammie are not so hot on veggies and will sometimes leave then in their dish. Adding veggies takes a bit more time. When I am boiling meat, I usually add a few carrots or kale. And if I am making lentil soup for myself, I'll often add that to the dog's dinner.

All chicken or turkey bones get boiled twice so that I get as much stock out of them as I can. One favorite meal is boiled chicken or turkey. Take the meat off the bones, mix it with bread and stock (the water that you just boiled the chicken in) and carrots (or other veggie). Feed one meal while it is warm. Meals for the next day or two can be stored in the refrigerator, and the next day's meal will be a cold gelled "chicken and stuffing." Yum.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

fjm carbs get a bad reputation in the minds of so many people but complex carbs like sweet potatoes or in my feeding whole grain pasta are important in proportion, of course, to the size of the dog(s) being fed.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

I don't feed my dogs carbs except those from vegetables and those must be pureed in the Vita Mix and cooked and the water included since a lot of vitamins get into the water. The Vita Mix helps because they (and we) can not digest cellulose. And anyhow, that is a pretty small percentage of their diet. I figure, just because dogs _can_ digest carbs, it doesn't mean carbs from flour are good for them. Carbs that come from white flour or other grains are associated with metabolic diseases, such as diabetes, joint and whole body inflammation, tooth decay and obesity. Dogs do _not need _carbohydrates in their diet. A small amount if it helps with poop, I figure...fine. And some have some good nutrients for sure, some (too refined) not so much. I find that Maurice needs a little extra roughage so green beans or pumpkin help normalize him. The other dogs, not so much. So it does seem to vary between dogs as to their needs...to a degree. The way their teeth, jaws, digestive tract, enzymes etc are constructed, they are still carnivores. They like and _will_ eat other things but that doesn't make them omnivores. They can get their energy from fat and meat. Or...let's put it this way: They're not obligate carnivores like a cat. 

Here's something that might be of interest: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sled-dog-science/



Here's something else for your reading pleasure: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/01/170124111352.htm


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

If I had toys, I could see feeding a very low carb diet. But with two standards, carbs are a great way to provide nutrition that does not depend so much on meat. Two good reasons choosing less meat are (1) cost, and (2) the way meat is raised in the US is bad for the environment, cruel to animals, and involves dangerous over use of antibiotics. So about 50% of my dogs' home-cooked diet is carbs. I use a variety of bread, potatoes, sweet potatoes, rice, couscous and other grains.

Here is some interesting reading on carbs as part of a dog's diet:

Carbohydrates and Your Dog's Digestive System
https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/13_10/features/Carbohydrates-and-Your-Dog_20103-1.html

From the above article:

As we mentioned before, dogs have no nutritional requirement for dietary carbohydrates. They can get everything they need from a diet that contains only protein and fat. Energy metabolism in the dog can be based on fat oxidation and the breakdown of protein to produce glucose.

There are two main reasons why we feed carbs to dogs. The first reason is because we can. Dogs can utilize just about anything we feed them; their digestive tracts are extremely versatile. The second reason is economic; fat and protein sources are much more expensive than carbohydrates.

Dogs evolved to love starch
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesal...-people-canines-evolved-to-love-starchy-foods


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Thanks. I read that article. And while I think some carbs are fine...I think dogs need more protein from _meat_. There are amino acids that are very essential to optimum health I believe, including heart health that only come from meat...to my understanding. As a matter of fact, you may have already read about the association between all this pea protein in grain free commercial food in place of enough protein from meat and dilated cardiomyopathy. I don't know that it's proven but there's sure a strong correlation. And it isn't because it's grain free. It's because there's pea protein to replace ample meat protein. (a lack of amino acids and other nutrients) You may have already seen this, but... https://www.americanveterinarian.co...between-grainfree-dog-foods-and-heart-disease

Anyhow, my dogs need more protein. They're little wilderness hikers. Even Maurice...all 4.5 lbs of him is BUFF. haha. 

Anyhow, I see your point about raising all those cows and doing something to the environment. And cruelty where it does exist. I don't think it exists everywhere. And as far as antibiotics and hormones, here's something to alleviate some of that worry. https://meatscience.org/TheMeatWeEa...ing-claims-of-hormone-free-or-antibiotic-free

Your dogs are healthy and that's what's important. Whatever you're doing, you must be doing right. I just couldn't bring myself to not feed my dogs plenty of meat. They like it a lot. :hungry::love2:

HOW TO BE ENVIRONMENTALLY RESPONSIBLE and save money: Only have toy breeds. Haha.:act-up: You should see how little my poodles' bowls are filled. It looks like I must be starving them. But they're robust, but lean and full of energy. I could feed them filet minion or meat from a rib eye steak and only spend pennies. lol. It doesn't matter if it's on sale or not.


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## SpinningBunnyFluff (Feb 9, 2018)

I ended up purchasing a copy of "Raw or Cooked Home Feeding Primer e-Booklet" from Monica Segal's website. It's finally provided me enough information to begin working on how to create a balanced cooked diet. 

While I work through that information, I received a recommendation for a different kibble that has a couple formulas with more unusual proteins that are often better tolerated by dogs with allergies. They also have a lot less of other ingredients that can be problematic. So I'm giving 4Health Untamed Red Canyon a try while I continue to work on figuring out how to provide Snow a balanced cooked diet. That way I have a backup plan if the new food is also problematic.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> And as far as antibiotics and hormones, here's something to alleviate some of that worry. https://meatscience.org/TheMeatWeEa...ing-claims-of-hormone-free-or-antibiotic-free


Thanks for posting, Poodlebeguiled. But the above article does nothing to alleviate my worry about the overuse of antibiotics in farm animals. It basically represents the meat industry's attempt to say that everything is OK. But it does not even mention the concern about human health being impacted by resistance to antibiotics that is caused by routine use of antibiotics in the feed of farm animals -- fed in their feed, not because they are sick.

A lot has been written about this and about the need to pass legislation that prevents the routine use of antibiotics in healthy farm animals. 

Here is just one article:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4638249/

From the above article:

Recently, the World Health Organization called antimicrobial resistance “an increasingly serious threat to global public health that requires action across all government sectors and society.” 
Of all antibiotics sold in the United States, approximately 80% are sold for use in animal agriculture; about 70% of these are “medically important” (i.e., from classes important to human medicine).2 Antibiotics are administered to animals in feed to marginally improve growth rates and to prevent infections, a practice projected to increase dramatically worldwide over the next 15 years.3 There is growing evidence that antibiotic resistance in humans is promoted by the widespread use of nontherapeutic antibiotics in animals.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Well...yeah, if the animals aren't even sick, that's crazy. Or maybe they're afraid they will get sick so they're preventing it. But why do I read on packages of chicken that there's no antibiotics ever. It's against federal regulations. Maybe that's only with chickens. (?) Well, I guess my feeling is that I eat meat and when I get an infection, anti-biotics still seem to knock out any bacterial infection I have gotten. That is not to say that there's no resistance to anti-biotics happening. Of course there is. But I just haven't had that problem. So I tend to not worry about my dogs too much with the meat they eat because they don't live as long as I have already. Not even close. lol. Maybe it's one of those double edged swords. I'll read that article in a minute.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

That's creepy for sure. Why does it say though, in that article I posted that it dissipates or something or other over time and by the time we eat it, it's gone out of the meat? 

Anyhow, this is the best route for now.


> Health care providers can also encourage their individual patients to purchase meat that is sustainably raised without the overuse of antibiotics.


I hope our backward country will catch up with those who are banning it as long as the animals don't all get sick and die. There must be some reason they do it. Denmark and other countries aren't so big...probably don't have as many animals. (?) Maybe they have an easier time to keep diseases at bay. (?) I'm just guessing. But yeah...something needs to be done. But I'll still eat meat and so will my dogs because I think it's still important and good. I could never be a vegan and I wouldn't want my dogs to be either.

Thanks for the interesting read. I think it's a valuable thing to keep in mind. Hopefully, they'll do something soon.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

UC Davis Veterinary Medical Consulting has this site to sell their own multivitamins, but within it is a homemade recipe generator..... when you click on the link below it will take you to a log in page, but you do not need to use it....you can just click on the 'Homemade Food' icon at the top, and it will take you to a recipe generator that is free ( click on the 'Free Autobalancer EZ' on the drop down) it's pretty nifty for getting ideas!



https://secure.balanceit.com/recipe generator_ver4/index.php


P.S. I don't see why a you couldn't substitute another multivitamin that is perhaps less pricey LOL! As long as the vitamin is complete nutritionally!


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## Dramama (Jun 19, 2018)

I could use some advice. I am preparing for a puppy. After hours, days, weeks of research, throwing up my hands several times and trying again, I have made progress, but am still confused about what to feed.

I have tried and tried again to find a good kibble. DCM is scary. But I am not satisfied logically or scientifically. I have ditched dog food advisor. 

I cannot feed raw for reasons I won't get into.

But there does not seem to be enough information on home cooking for puppies (or I have not found it?) For example, the recipe generator (which is otherwise great, Molly), specifically says the recipes are for adult dogs.

I recently came across Susan Thixton's annual "The List". I am so thankful for all the work she put into it! There are a couple of (affordable, at least until adulthood and he or she eats more) companies that produce gently cooked foods that claim to be puppy safe. Why does this make me nervous?

For a puppy, what would you do?? Would you go with the best puppy kibble until adulthood? I could probably afford a multivitamin if I did this, but then I'd be afraid to do more harm than good adding to the vitamins and minerals already present. Would you supplement puppy kibble with gently cooked? Would you go totally gently cooked? Would you feed kibble and just add a can of sardines (or other foods?) once a week or every day? Do you know of any good books/websites/resources that you would trust for puppy recipes? Honestly, I'm not sure how sustainable cooking everything from scratch would be for me right now, especially in the busy time of puppyhood and proper socialization, so I'd definitely appreciate opinions on the gently cooked options at least possibly for the first few months, but information on anything puppy related for now or later. BTW, there was a puppy option to buy raw, but gently cook before feeding. That is a possibility. 

Also, I am planning to raise the pup Dunbar style. This method of stuffing Kongs, etc. does give me pause with gently cooked vs. kibble. Any advice there? TIA.


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## Dramama (Jun 19, 2018)

Sorry for taking this thread in a slightly different direction, but it seems like you all are already headed in a direction I'd like to go. SpinningBunnyFluff, I can identify with feeling overwhelmed. LOL!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Appropriate life stage kibble of good quality should not require vitamins or other supplements. I don't see why a puppy could not be raised on home cooked food so long as you adjust portions appropriately as the puppy grows.


BTW the use of antibiotics in poultry is prohibited.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

lily cd re said:


> BTW the use of antibiotics in poultry is prohibited.


While some industry leaders are taking welcome and long-overdue steps to limit the use of antibiotics in poultry, it is still legal in the US. Not legal in the EU.

Here's a recent article: https://www.globalmeatnews.com/Article/2018/11/16/Animal-antibiotics-use-in-the-spotlight

From the above article:

On a global scale, the US and China are the largest users of antibiotics for food production. According to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), 80% of the total antibiotic use in the US is in agriculture, with pigs and poultry receiving five to 10 times more antibiotics than cows and sheep.

And here's another article on the changes taking place:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/09/chicken-after-antibiotics/570028/


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## SpinningBunnyFluff (Feb 9, 2018)

Dramama said:


> Sorry for taking this thread in a slightly different direction, but it seems like you all are already headed in a direction I'd like to go. SpinningBunnyFluff, I can identify with feeling overwhelmed. LOL!


I completely get it. I purchased a pamphlet on Monica Segal's site that provides the information needed to be able to build a balanced diet for a dog. Unfortunately while this would have been doable if it was just a matter of building a balanced diet, trying to figure out how to build and implement it while ensuring that I'm not using anything to which Snow is sensitive was just too much. So in the end I gave one more dry food a try and when it became clear that he's sensitive to it as well, elected to spend the extra money to have Monica build the diet for me and walk me through implementation. She and Jory are currently working on putting together a plan, and I expect we'll be starting soon. 

If you're interested, she also has a Puppy Consultation that is a bit more expensive but provides support until the dog turns 12 months old. 

So far I've been pretty impressed with the process, but given that we haven't actually started implementing the diet yet these are still early impressions.


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## Dramama (Jun 19, 2018)

SpinningBunnyFluff said:


> I completely get it. I purchased a pamphlet on Monica Segal's site that provides the information needed to be able to build a balanced diet for a dog. Unfortunately while this would have been doable if it was just a matter of building a balanced diet, trying to figure out how to build and implement it while ensuring that I'm not using anything to which Snow is sensitive was just too much. So in the end I gave one more dry food a try and when it became clear that he's sensitive to it as well, elected to spend the extra money to have Monica build the diet for me and walk me through implementation. She and Jory are currently working on putting together a plan, and I expect we'll be starting soon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you, SpinningBunnyFluff!
I will certainly check it out!

I was getting discouraged. I would rather have recipes that were designed specifically for a puppy's nutritional needs. I also need to call and question the company that makes the gently cooked puppy fare to be sure they are providing a food I can trust. Either way, it looks like I'm still on the hunt. I'm not giving up yet.

I admire your persistence and willingness to help Snow. He has a very good mom. Thanks for sharing what you've learned so far. I hope you'll continue to update us on his progress.


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## SpinningBunnyFluff (Feb 9, 2018)

I received the beginning instructions for Snow's cooked diet last week and started transitioning him yesterday. Should take about a week for him to be fully switched to the new diet. Fingers crossed for improvement. 

I also determined that I refuse to cook a week's worth of rice for Snow on the stove top, and ordered a Instant Pot 8 Quart. This should easily allow me to cook two weeks of rice for him at a time and be MUCH less mess to clean up after. Cooking two different batches of ground meat was much less of an issue.


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## Dramama (Jun 19, 2018)

SpinningBunnyFluff said:


> I received the beginning instructions for Snow's cooked diet last week and started transitioning him yesterday. Should take about a week for him to be fully switched to the new diet. Fingers crossed for improvement.
> 
> 
> 
> I also determined that I refuse to cook a week's worth of rice for Snow on the stove top, and ordered a Instant Pot 8 Quart. This should easily allow me to cook two weeks of rice for him at a time and be MUCH less mess to clean up after. Cooking two different batches of ground meat was much less of an issue.


That is great! I have wondered if the instant pot is really a good investment. It sounds like a time saver. Please keep us posted on how he does!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

As an FYI when I switched our dogs from kibble to home cooked we went cold turkey with no problems. I'm not sure how important a gradual transition is. I am glad you are finding a way to fix your pup's tummy problems.


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## SpinningBunnyFluff (Feb 9, 2018)

lily cd re said:


> As an FYI when I switched our dogs from kibble to home cooked we went cold turkey with no problems. I'm not sure how important a gradual transition is. I am glad you are finding a way to fix your pup's tummy problems.


I'm following the directions that I was given to transition him over the course of a week. I'd probably be transitioning him more quickly, if I was doing this on my own.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

peppersb said:


> ..... article does nothing to alleviate my worry about the overuse of antibiotics in farm animals. It basically represents the meat industry's attempt to say that everything is OK. But it does not even mention the concern about human health being impacted by resistance to antibiotics that is caused by routine use of antibiotics in the feed of farm animals -- fed in their feed, not because they are sick.
> 
> A lot has been written about this and about the need to pass legislation that prevents the routine use of antibiotics in healthy farm animals.
> 
> ...


I have been reading up on this too. I guess I should be happy that China uses more antibiotics in chicken than the US does, but it is not really making me feel better. Europe is so far ahead of the US in health protection, which makes no sense to me.

The US has prohibited the use of a few antibiotics in chickens.

Apparently the antibiotics given a lot of chickens in the US (tetracycline and related) end up in their bones and are still there when butchered, although apparently it has mostly left their muscle meat by then. This is worrisome as the bones end up in a lot of kibble, in raw diets, in bone meal supplements, etc. 

https://academic.oup.com/ps/article/94/8/1979/1530907

"This result suggests potential human and animal health risks due to the entry of tetracycline residues contained in the bones of treated livestock into the food-chain. This could be of concern, particularly for canine and feline diets, as meat, bone meal, and poultry by-products represent some of the main ingredients of pet foods, especially in the case of dry pet food." 

I just became aware of this info about chicken bones. Apparently you have to look for labeling of 'no antibiotics ever', or 'raised without antibiotics'. Other wording may sound good but shows that they may have been used at some point and in feed. https://www.consumerreports.org/overuse-of-antibiotics/what-no-antibiotic-claims-really-mean/

So I searched for a list of chicken brands raised without antibiotics and found a site that listed companies that 'limited' antibiotics. Unfortunately when I looked at each individually they weren't completely free and I gave up looking after a few. But am still looking for a list that has used none, from inception. 

I will be contacting the companies of chicken available in my local stores to see what they say. 

I am hoping that by now there are more companies doing this! 

I know local farmers who do not use antibiotics, and are letting their chickens run free and forage, but their chickens are $4 per pound and over and I just can't afford that!


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

What is NOT used in chickens is hormones as they were banned in the 1950's,.... although hormones and steroids are used in beef and sheep in the US, but not in Europe


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Dramama said:


> That is great! I have wondered if the instant pot is really a good investment. It sounds like a time saver. Please keep us posted on how he does!


Dramama, I have not one but two instant pots. I was hesitant to buy the first one because I had never used a pressure cooler and was scared of them. I took a chance on the instant pot because it had many options for cooking. I found I was using it so much and there were times I wished I had a second one instead of having to wait while one thing finished cooking before starting the next. I watched the sales for a good price and bought a second. I’ve found that I can cook grains in large batches and store them in the fridge and then reheat what I need.....or they freeze wonderfully. 

While the instant pot does save time cooking something like beans that are not presoaked, it’s simplifies other cooking. Some foods, like steel cut oatmeal need to be babysat at the beginning, watched carefully so they are boiling, but not boiling over and making a mess of the stove.....then you can turn the heat down and walk away while they cook but you have to come back and turn the stove off when they are cooked. With the instant pot, I put water and steel cut oatmeal in, put the lid on. I chose the cooking setting then walk away. I don’t have to babysit nor do I have to come back at a set time when it’s done. No worries about spilling over and making a mess. The machine after cooking goes into a keep warm mode so I can come back at any time. 

For dog food it’s wonderful if you can batch cook large amounts and freeze in the volume you need. 

Also when I switched both my tpoo and current minipoo to home cooked food, I didn’t transition slowly. I did it immediately because the commercial food was making them both ill (tpoo had pancreatitis and minipoo had ulcerative colitis and food allergies/intolerances) giving them serious digestive issues. I would have transitioned slowly if the previous food was not causing any problems. In my situation the home cooking was like an antibiotic that I wanted the dog on as quickly as possible and at an effective dose. In both cases home cooking put digestive problems into remission quickly and effectively.


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## Dramama (Jun 19, 2018)

Skylar said:


> Dramama, I have not one but two instant pots. I was hesitant to buy the first one because I had never used a pressure cooler and was scared of them. I took a chance on the instant pot because it had many options for cooking. I found I was using it so much and there were times I wished I had a second one instead of having to wait while one thing finished cooking before starting the next. I watched the sales for a good price and bought a second. I’ve found that I can cook grains in large batches and store them in the fridge and then reheat what I need.....or they freeze wonderfully.
> 
> While the instant pot does save time cooking something like beans that are not presoaked, it’s simplifies other cooking. Some foods, like steel cut oatmeal need to be babysat at the beginning, watched carefully so they are boiling, but not boiling over and making a mess of the stove.....then you can turn the heat down and walk away while they cook but you have to come back and turn the stove off when they are cooked. With the instant pot, I put water and steel cut oatmeal in, put the lid on. I chose the cooking setting then walk away. I don’t have to babysit nor do I have to come back at a set time when it’s done. No worries about spilling over and making a mess. The machine after cooking goes into a keep warm mode so I can come back at any time.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Skylar! I had originally passed it off as a fad, but your description helped me to understand the full benefit. The hardest part of cooking is babysitting, not throwing it together. Do you have a particular model you recommend? (Not just for dog food, but general use)


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## SpinningBunnyFluff (Feb 9, 2018)

Dramama said:


> Thank you, Skylar! I had originally passed it off as a fad, but your description helped me to understand the full benefit. The hardest part of cooking is babysitting, not throwing it together. Do you have a particular model you recommend? (Not just for dog food, but general use)


I also have two instant pots with the arrival of the newest one for large batch rice cooking. Both of mine are the Duo which is the 7-in-1 cooker (seven pre-programmed functions). My recommendation is to compare the built in features that come with the various models and decide which one has all the functions that you want/need and the least number of extras you're unlikely to use. 

The next choice is the size. If you're only cooking for 1-2 people then the 3 quart is probably enough. For a family of 4 or large batches to make ahead and freeze for your dogs, you might want to look at the 6 quart. The price difference to move to the 8 quart isn't that big for the duo, so I spent the little bit more for extra flexibility. One other factor that may sway your choice is that there are more accessories available for the 6 and 8 quart. If you want to be able to use these extra accessories, then you'll want to go for one of the larger versions.

I would recommend getting 2nd steel inner pot right away, as it allows you to cook a second batch while you're washing the first one or using it to store leftovers. If the pot you choose doesn't come with the glass lid and you want to be able to use it as a slow cooker, then the glass lid is another thing to get right away.


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## SpinningBunnyFluff (Feb 9, 2018)

Sooo... trying to make the switch has been way less than smooth. A week in with Snow fully on the fresh cooked, he had his annual checkup and it was determined that he had a yeast infection in both ears and a spot on his butt that was already irritated and had been worsened due to concussive forces every time he sits down, and because it was so swollen it had probably gotten infected as well. 

At two weeks in, first full week on only cooked food AND ointment to treat his ears plus antibiotics for his butt... and he started having increased incidents of stomach issues, weight loss and inconclusive results on his itchiness. Given that we couldn't determine whether it was the medicine or the food that was causing his issues, I was instructed to transition him back to dry food and retry the transition after he's done with the antibiotics. Sigh. 

So back on dry and poised to try again next week. Arg! What a problem child he is. So I repeat, it's a good thing I love him so much!


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

You are aware that cooking destroys the enzymes in meat? 
With home cooking at least it is not as bad as with kibble which is at very high heat. This does make a big difference with food sensitivities. So for example, a dog may react to chicken in kibble that has been cooked to death, but be fine with top quality fresh raw organic chicken with zero antibiotics.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

It doesn't matter that enzymes are destroyed (denatured) by cooking since they will be destroyed in the acid environment of the stomach anyway. By cooking foods generally nutrients become more readily accessed not less so.


I think your dog may have food intolerances or sensitivities ("allergies"). For many dogs these issues manifest as ear problems such as excessive wax, moisture, infections and such. Before trying to go back to your home cooked diet I really really strongly recommend doing a NutriScan analysis. Since you are making your diet change to deal with a health issue, most insurance plans (if you have) will pay for at least part of that testing.


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## jacqueline (May 23, 2011)

lily cd re i'm looking forward to seeing your recipe when your BF peels himself from the computer. :wink: our puppy is arriving in less that 2 weeks and i'm freaking out about the health benefits of home-cooked food vs my ability to keep it up. 

i found this recipe and it seems simple compared with most. it doesn't say anything about cooking the food, though, which i think is a good idea. anyone have an opinion about it? thx! 

14 oz 90% lean ground beef
2 tsp hempseed oil or 3 T ground hempseeds
1/2 tsp Carlson's cod liver oil or 2 oz sardines
1/2 tsp ground ginger 
1/4 – 1/2 kelp powder 
(they didn't say what measurement is kind of measurement 1/4 to 1/2 is)
1 egg
1/2 eggshell
1 oz beef liver
1 oz broccoli
1 oz red bell pepper 
1 oz spinach

makes about 1 lb food for an adult dog.
contains 40 calories per ounce.
amount of food to feed depends on age, activity level and metabolic health.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Is this from a raw recipe, or cooked recipe cookbook? Is it blended, or what?


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## jacqueline (May 23, 2011)

to tell you the truth, knotiki, i'm not sure if it is a raw or cooked recipe. i saw it online somewhere and i did a partial screen capture of the recipe and put it in a folder on my computer. i mentioned that i didn't know if it was raw or cooked because i realize there is an ongoing conversation surrounding that subject.


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## SpinningBunnyFluff (Feb 9, 2018)

I've received an updated plan to start this coming weekend as Snow finishes off his antibiotics. The beef has been cut out and the Turkey and Rice increased to raise the overall calories with lower fat content. Fingers crossed that this goes better.


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## SpinningBunnyFluff (Feb 9, 2018)

Well we're 6 days into the second try at switching Snow over to a cooked diet. This time we're going with just Turkey and Rice to start. So far it seems to being going well, but tonight will be the first day with no kibble. I've got all the supplements on hand and ready to start being added in stages.

I made another change which is really helping ensure that he isn't adding things to his diet that shouldn't be included. I installed a gate between the main living area and the diningroom/kitchen area. So no more raiding the kitchen trash for anything that smells tasty. Such a small change but it has made it so much more relaxing not having to constantly police where and how far he's roaming in the house. It's so lovely that he doesn't even think about trying to jump over low fences and gates. He could quite literally hop over if he wanted!!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

jacqueline said:


> lily cd re i'm looking forward to seeing your recipe when your BF peels himself from the computer. :wink: our puppy is arriving in less that 2 weeks and i'm freaking out about the health benefits of home-cooked food vs my ability to keep it up.



Jacqueline I didn't notice until today that you were also interested in my recipe. I'm sorry for the delay. I did PM it to one person who asked, but didn't post it here, my bad.


Here it is.


FOR A 45 POUND DOG PER DAY (divide into two portions)

8 oz chicken (I use boneless, skinless legs and thighs from Costco and sometimes add chicken hearts)
0.75 cup macaroni (I use whole grain rotini or penne) 
4 chicken livers
3 teaspoons bone meal
2 scoops (scoop being 1/8 tsp.) kelp powder
3 cups spinach (I use bagged organic mixed spinach, kale and chards from Costco and grind it with water in a nutribullet)_
0.5 teaspoon canola oil
0.5 tsp cod liver or other fish oil (I use mega red krill oil)

For changes, if you eliminate the cod liver oil, the recipe provides 0% of the daily recommended serving of Vitamin D. You could replace it with a vitamin D supplement. This is what I have done.

Eliminating the liver and replacing it with chicken meat makes the recipe low in Copper, Zinc, Selenium, B5, B12, and Choline. I have not found a replacement yet, but you might be able to.

Of course, you can replace the fish oil with another omega 3 source.

The recipe is for 1083 calories of food, it's one day’s food for a hypothetical 45lb dog.

The kelp powder, a scoop is 1/8 teaspoon, so it's really tiny. If you are substituting Vitamin D for the cod liver oil, you'd need 200 IU per day for that amount of food.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> Jacqueline I didn't notice until today that you were also interested in my recipe. I'm sorry for the delay. I did PM it to one person who asked, but didn't post it here, my bad.
> 
> 
> Here it is.
> ...





While I was going through some big changes and traumatic times last year I stopped feeding my dogs a home made, raw diet...it takes a lot of time to fix up. They've been eating a "premium" commercial food since. I've varied that. Lately, it's been Instinct Ultra Protein. https://www.instinctpetfood.com/dog...ein-cage-free-chicken-recipe-small-breed-dogs. I also have a bag of commercial (Nature's Variety) frozen raw in the freezer.

I'd like to try your recipe. It looks like you've included all the essentials. Do you vary the meat type? Or do you need to stick with chicken because of sensitivities? Would this work for my toy poodles? Would the ratio still be correct when transferred to 4 and 7 lb dogs? I mean does the ratio stay correct proportionately if you feed less? 


To those of you who enjoy Instant Pots, I know why. I must confess, I'm a certified appliance junkie and also have _two_ Instant Pots...(the Ultra) and *LOVE!* It is such fun to use and versatile... and it retains more nutrients because there's no evaporation...it all gets locked in. At least that's what they say. Yep...no baby sitting, no washing of multiple pots and pans. Just let 'er go. Fun! And with more than one, you can do a few things at once.:amen:


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Poodlebeguiled I use chicken for a variety of reasons: cost, food sensitivities by NutriScan testing and in the long run a convenient system of preparation. That recipe is nutritionally complete as written. You could use other meat as the main protein but the chicken livers are an important source of a variety of micronutrients. It shouldn't be a hard diet to adopt for people with smaller dogs since the quantities of everything go down. I would reduce everything proportionately since the recipe is nutritionally complete. If you change meats you might have to adjust to make sure the calories work out correctly. For me it is a large volume operation when you consider that our dogs weigh 37, 50 and 98 pounds.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Couldn't I just make the whole thing and put in their bowls an appropriate amount for them, leave in the fridge enough for 2-3 days and freeze the rest in small 2-3 day containers? 

When I was feeding raw, the advice was 10% organ meat, 1/2 of which should be liver (beef liver preferably) and 1/2 some other organ, which I varied...from kidney, brain, pork uterus, lung, you name it. And varied the protein because they told me that chicken lacks one thing (?) and another meat might lack some nutrient that chicken has so to vary it. (that is....if the dog doesn't have sensitivities of course. Do you agree with this? Or is it a bunch of hooey? 

Maurice is presently having some kind of colitis...loose, mucusy...gross poos. So, back again to boiled chicken and rice with a pinch of egg shell and maybe pumpkin but that doesn't seem to help him. He doesn't like it at all. He picks the green beans out too and sets them in a tidy pile on the rug next to his bowl. The raw diet was hard to regulate for him...the bone mostly. But the others did fine on it. Anyhow, I try that stuff called Firm Up but again, he isn't crazy about the taste. 

Anyhow thanks for your input. I like to see what others are doing and how it all works for them.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Couldn't I just make the whole thing and put in their bowls an appropriate amount for them, leave in the fridge enough for 2-3 days and freeze the rest in small 2-3 day containers? 

When I was feeding raw, the advice was 10% organ meat, 1/2 of which should be liver (beef liver preferably) and 1/2 some other organ, which I varied...from kidney, brain, pork uterus, lung, you name it. And varied the protein because they told me that chicken lacks one thing (?) and another meat might lack some nutrient that chicken has so to vary it. (that is....if the dog doesn't have sensitivities of course. Do you agree with this? Or is it a bunch of hooey? 

Maurice is presently having some kind of colitis...loose, mucusy...gross poos. So, back again to boiled chicken and rice with a pinch of egg shell and maybe pumpkin but that doesn't seem to help him. He doesn't like it at all. He picks the green beans out too and sets them in a tidy pile on the rug next to his bowl. The raw diet was hard to regulate for him...the bone mostly. But the others did fine on it. Anyhow, I try that stuff called Firm Up but again, he isn't crazy about the taste. 

Anyhow thanks for your input. I like to see what others are doing and how it all works for them.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

If it were practical to mix it all in advance and be sure that everything was thoroughly mixed I would make batches and keep enough for a few days in the fridge and put out the right portions, but to do that would take over my fridge in ways I don't think I could cope with and I also am not sure I could make enough of a truly well mixed batch that everyone would get everything in the correct portions. When I make up meals for road trips I make individual meals for each dog that is coming along in vacuum seal bags, so even that is not a matter of making a mix and doling out a cup or two.


I'm not sure what chicken could be missing.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Yes, I see how that could be a risk...that it doesn't get mixed or ingredients dispersed evenly. I use to make individual amounts of each item in freezer bags...the muscle meat for each dog, the liver/kidney or whatever and the bone. And I'd have a little ice cube of veggies just in case they needed it. That way it could be seen what they were getting. It wasn't ground meat or anything all mixed up. So, I see what you're saying there. hmmmm. Well, this will take some thought.

I don't remember what the specifics were but I read something somewhere...a long time ago that typically one kind of meat may have certain nutrients that another lacks and that one might have certain attributes that the other doesn't have. Hmmm....maybe not. I just always fed a variety but I don't notice any regular sensitivities....until yesterday when Maurice developed some kind of issue. Grrr. 

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experiences with your home made diet.


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## SpinningBunnyFluff (Feb 9, 2018)

Well after a some more time working through issues, it appears that a cooked diet is not the solution for Snow. We followed a recommendation from the nutritionist to try a prescription diet with hydrolyzed protein, and it's actually working so far. We started the second bag earlier this week, and in the 2-3 weeks since starting him on it his nose is nearly completely healed. His itchiness has calmed down as well. It's about the same cost as the home cooked and way less work. I'm going to keep monitoring him, but this is the most promising thing we've tried so far.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Poodlebeguiled said:


> When I was feeding raw, the advice was 10% organ meat, 1/2 of which should be liver (beef liver preferably) and 1/2 some other organ, which I varied...from kidney, brain, pork uterus, lung, you name it. And varied the protein because they told me that chicken lacks one thing (?) and another meat might lack some nutrient that chicken has so to vary it. (that is....if the dog doesn't have sensitivities of course.


Yes, according to my vet it is important to include different meats. He also says that they vary in nutrients and said not to feed all chicken.


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

SpinningBunnyFluff said:


> We followed a recommendation from the nutritionist to try a prescription diet with hydrolyzed protein, and it's actually working so far. We started the second bag earlier this week, and in the 2-3 weeks since starting him on it his nose is nearly completely healed. His itchiness has calmed down as well. It's about the same cost as the home cooked and way less work. I'm going to keep monitoring him, but this is the most promising thing we've tried so far.


Which dog food is it?


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## SpinningBunnyFluff (Feb 9, 2018)

kontiki said:


> Which dog food is it?


It's Royal Canin - Prescription Hydrolyzed Protein Adult.


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## bluegirl1997 (Aug 10, 2019)

Yay for this thread! I looked and looked and LOOKED for this so I can start home cooking for our dogs in a nutritionally balanced way. Thanks!

Sent from my VOG-L04 using Tapatalk


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## kontiki (Apr 6, 2013)

Unfortunately cooking destroys many nutrients. The only things I cook are the things my Spoo cannot digest, like raw vegetables (some can digest them). He does fine with raw meat and bones and raw fruit. People are shocked at how healthy he looks for his age.


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