# digestive issues?



## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

First, a warning, you may not want to read this message if you're eating or are sensitive to discussions about, well, digestive issues 

Katie has been with us 2 months, and is just about 7 1/2 months old. For the past 3-4 weeks, she's been eating Taste of the Wild Sierra Mountain ALS Formula. She gets 3 1/2-4 cups a day per the feeding guide on the bag, but she rarely eats all of it. I've tried giving her plain yogurt for the probiotics, but that seems to upset her stomach. I just starting adding a spoon of pumpkin to her breakfast.

She's always had formed, but soft stools; some just sort of mushy, but others very soft and difficult to pick up. Also, she has 2-4 bm's per day (a few times it's been as many as 5). Is this normal? She's my first dog, so I'm not really sure what to expect.

I've read that soft stools can be from over feeding, but I was told that she would self-regulate her food intake. I'm also reluctant to reduce her food because she still growing and she seems to vomit when it's been too long between meals (e.g., early in the morning before breakfast). 

She's also had a few instance of vomiting for no apparent reason. For example, this afternoon, we had gone outside for a few minutes, came back in, and up came the few bits of kibble I used to reward her for dropping her stick at the door. Because she was acting hungry - nosing at her food container and licking her empty dish - I cooked some rice and chicken breast for her dinner. I know that cats vomit/regurgitate frequently. Is it the same with dogs?

She's been to the vet a number of times and is healthy, but I tend to worry. Thanks!


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Have you tried giving probiotics supplement? Maybe you should consider switching her to another protein source.


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

Thanks for replying.



schnauzerpoodle said:


> Have you tried giving probiotics supplement?


Could I give her a human probiotic supplement? That might be faster for me to get than a dog-specific one.



schnauzerpoodle said:


> Maybe you should consider switching her to another protein source.


Is it possible that she's developed sensitivities at such a young age? Is there a protein source you would recommend? I had to go straight to one of the less common proteins since she is so young and still has many years left to become increasingly sensitive.

She's had lamb and chicken, so maybe beef or turkey?

Thanks again.


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## jfo (Nov 19, 2010)

You may just have to find the "right" food for her. Raven had soft poo, nasty farts, the whole nine yards. She came home on Diamond Naturals, we switched her to Blue Buffalo and finally landed on Canine Caviar. She loves it, it agrees with her, everyone is happy! Just remember to transition nice and slow. Good Luck!


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## Lilah+Jasper (May 13, 2010)

I never follow the feeding guidelines on the bag - it is usually way too much. Lilah (42 lbs) and Jasper (50 lbs) (Used to - on raw now) get TOTW Pacific Stream 2 cups per day with extras like yogurt, cottage cheese, pumpkin, or a little bit of quality canned food. 

After we adopted Jasper, it took months for his stool to be firm & regular. We discovered that he was allergic to processed chicken and grains.

5 bm's per day seems excessive... poor Katie


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

Thanks so much! My husband and I have never talked about poop so much  He thinks she's just fine (and that I'm crazy), but I want to be sure.

Can I ask a more graphic question? What is the proper stool consistency? I expected something close to putty or a firm bread dough, but hers are a bit softer.



jfo said:


> You may just have to find the "right" food for her. Raven had soft poo, nasty farts, the whole nine yards. She came home on Diamond Naturals, we switched her to Blue Buffalo and finally landed on Canine Caviar. She loves it, it agrees with her, everyone is happy! Just remember to transition nice and slow. Good Luck!


How long should I give the TOTW? We transitioned slowly from the mix she eating at the breeder's house, but in the middle of the transition, she was on antibiotics for 15 days. I suspect that some of her issues were from that, so I want to give the TOTW a fair chance.



Lilah+Jasper said:


> I never follow the feeding guidelines on the bag - it is usually way too much. Lilah (42 lbs) and Jasper (50 lbs) (Used to - on raw now) get TOTW Pacific Stream 2 cups per day with extras like yogurt, cottage cheese, pumpkin, or a little bit of quality canned food.


How do I determine how much food? She's 7 1/2 months and was ~40 lbs at her last vet visit December 8. Since she's still growing (I hope), I don't want to skimp on her meals. Plus, she really does seem hungry at times.



Lilah+Jasper said:


> After we adopted Jasper, it took months for his stool to be firm & regular. We discovered that he was allergic to processed chicken and grains.


The TOTW formula is grain- and chicken-free, although we just bought chicken-flavored Zuke's minis and I gave her chicken last night. Of course, she could be reacting to something else entirely. 



Lilah+Jasper said:


> 5 bm's per day seems excessive... poor Katie


She's only had 4-5 bm's a handful of times. I think a few times during her antibiotic treatment and the other times were after the plain yogurt. Three is her typical schedule.

Thanks again for all your help.


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

cookieface said:


> Thanks for replying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Human probiotics. Yes, for now. Probiotics for dogs in the long run.

Also yes to the second question. My mini was on TOTW since he's at the breeder's and I continued to feed him that. He had soft, sometimes mushy, stool. I eventually switched him to raw but you don't have to go the raw route if you don't want to. My boy also did well on Acana Pacifica and some other kibbles. After extensive elimination diet, I found that he's allergic to chicken. That's confirmed when he's around 8 months old.

TOTW Sierra Mountain is a lamb-based kibbles. Maybe you can try other single-protein kibbles.

Is she still teething? Sometimes they get soft stool before all the adult teeth come in.


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## jfo (Nov 19, 2010)

Antibiotics almost always cause soft poo for Raven. I personally would give a good a good month to know if a food will work or not. Especially if there's antibiotics in the mix.


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## Searcher (Aug 7, 2009)

Don't follow the bag instructions, it is way too much. 
How many times a day do you feed? It seemed that that was how many times a day Dancer would poop though some days it is more & some days less. We fed 3x/day until she was 6 months old & now are on twice a day. 
Also (& I wish I had know this earlier - we wouldn't have gone to the vet so often to find out nothing was wrong) when she was under a year she seemed to vomit quite a bit but as she got older that stopped. She also had soft stools which changed to more normal as she got older. I don't know how much of that is puppies getting all their systems functioning well & that takes time. 
We did have to go through a number of foods to find what worked. We started with Chicken Soup, Blue Buffalo, Taste of the Wild, Arcana. I was trying to find another food that worked but we went back to TOTW. We use Fromm's for treats. We found the prairie works well for us but also add some toppings at her evening meal. It seems like most everyone has to go to a few different brands to find what works best for your dog. I wouldn't worry about soft stools only loose ones. 
I also found yams or sweet potato is a good topping & cheaper than the canned pumpkin. Make sure it is straight canned pumpkin not the pumpkin pie stuff.


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## vtomblin (Jul 18, 2010)

Sounds like you are doing everything right. Keep with the pumpkin and try the food for longer. Antibiotics cause soft stools as well as teething. It doesn't sound like allergy to me. If it gets loose that's different. Reduce the amount of feed but maybe increase frequency. I've had that help. A mid day kibble snack  if you are changing food and antibiotics that's alot in two months for a GI tract.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

This could also be stress......he's been with you a short 2 months. My girl suffered rough digestive problems for almost 6 months when I got her. As a full grown poodle she got down to 40lbs, today she is 58lbs. I went to Raw because I was concerned the kibble was causing it. (It still might) I am not recommending Raw at all (although its a great route to go) I would feed a no grain diet, try a surf and turf type of blend and I would cut any chicken as many dogs tend to be alergic. I would buy some canned tripe to encourage eating the kibble. The weight does not seem low for a dog this age. I have a pretty big pup at 6 months that weighs a bit less and he has good stools.


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## katbrat (May 8, 2011)

We started Lexi on what the breeder had her on. I can't remember the brand right now. We were told when that bag was done we could go to an adult stage food. We switched slowly to Evo Innova and she seemed to do great on it at first, but sometime thru the second bag it started to not set with her. We switched to Blue Buffalo and she had not had any problems. We measure her food out for her in the morning and for dinner, but I am ok with her grazing during the day if she doens't eat it all at one time. Something isn't setting with her if her poo is that loose and she is going that much. Good luck finding a food that sets on her tummy.


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

Thank you all again for the advice. 

Just to clarify, her stools aren't loose, just soft. Most of the time, they are firmer than toothpaste, but softer than play dough and her typical schedule is 3 times a day. She'll very occasionally have a toothpaste consistency - formed, but not easy to pick up - stool and she has had a few 4-5 bm days. This may have been an effect of the antibiotics.

I don't know if she's still teething - I couldn't find a teething timeline anywhere. She's 7 1/2 months, so I'm not sure where that puts her in terms of baby vs adult teeth.

Here's what I've decided to do:

- Keep her on the TOTW Sierra Mountain for at least another bag's worth (I'd like to try it without the influence of antibiotics).
- Keep her meal size at ~3 cups/day until she's closer to a year old. This is the amount the breeder was feeding her and she doesn't always eat everything.
- I like the idea of a midday snack, but I'm not sure how I can do that as we both work full-time. She does tend to eat at a leisurely pace, so she's not gobbling her food all at once; she's without food from about 9am to 5pm. Her eating pace may have something to do with her bm frequency, too.
- Continue to add a little pumpkin to her meals.
- Stash some burger in the freezer for post-upset stomach meals.
- Eliminate chicken-based treats.
- Try the probiotics if things don't normalize within a month. I really want to see what her "normal" is (without antibiotics, teething, stress) before trying supplements.

Thanks!! I truly appreciate all the advice.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2011)

Hi, Cookieface:
I'm sorry to hear about Katie's bowel issues.  As usual, you're right on top of it and she's in good hands.

I've had similar problems with Merlin and posted about it here: http://www.poodleforum.com/29-poodle-health/16596-its-you-your-dogs-advocate.html

I have to watch his fiber intake or he has loose stools too. Along with the pumpkin, you can also add a _small _amount of mashed banana to her food. It's high in fiber and really helps firm up the stools. Peas are also good. I prepare Merlin's meals in the food processor, which breaks down the vegetables/fruits so they're more easily digested. You could also give this to her as a snack by mixing some mashed banana with kefir or even cottage cheese/plain yogurt if she's okay with dairy. 

It sounds like you're on the right path though. As others have said, it's often just about finding the right protein (and food brand) for her. 

If she's still having looser stools, you can see if your vet will work with you on formulating a home cooked diet. It sounds daunting, but it's not that time consuming if you make it in batches. I hope this helps and good luck with your little girl!


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## Shipper (May 14, 2010)

cookieface said:


> and she has had a few 4-5 bm days. This may have been an effect of the antibiotics.
> 
> Here's what I've decided to do:
> 
> ...


You are feeding her a quality dry dogfood that has probiotics already applied with chelated minerals to improve absorption. Perhaps the additional probiotics (antibiotics???) that you are adding are causing the stool problem. From what I've read you seem to be feeding her too much. Why don't you just stick to the two feedings a day with less food and cut out all the other things you have been trying for a couple of weeks and see if there is an improvement. Just some thoughts.


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## cookieface (Jul 5, 2011)

Thanks!



Rowan said:


> Hi, Cookieface:
> I'm sorry to hear about Katie's bowel issues.  As usual, you're right on top of it and she's in good hands.
> 
> I've had similar problems with Merlin and posted about it here: http://www.poodleforum.com/29-poodle-health/16596-its-you-your-dogs-advocate.html
> ...


*Rowan* -Thanks for adding your perspective - I always like to hear your thoughts. I'm glad you found a diet that worked for Merlin. Bananas, pumpkin, and peas - I may want to have you feed me  

It's heartwarming to read about how well you take care of your dogs as a contrast to the negative stories.



Shipper said:


> You are feeding her a quality dry dogfood that has probiotics already applied with chelated minerals to improve absorption.


Several people - dog knowledgeable and our vet - who know what we're feeding suggested adding probiotics or digestive enzymes. I'd prefer to do without them, but if it normalizes her stools, I'll give them.



Shipper said:


> Perhaps the additional probiotics (antibiotics???) that you are adding are causing the stool problem.


But I haven't added any probiotics other than the three times she had plain yogurt in late October / early November before changing her food or giving her the antibiotics. The yogurt didn't seem to agree with her, so I stopped.



Shipper said:


> From what I've read you seem to be feeding her too much. Why don't you just stick to the two feedings a day with less food and cut out all the other things you have been trying for a couple of weeks and see if there is an improvement. Just some thoughts.


How much should a puppy eat? I've not been able to find a good answer to that question. I don't want to shortchange her nutritional needs while she's still growing.


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

cookieface said:


> I don't know if she's still teething - I couldn't find a teething timeline anywhere. She's 7 1/2 months, so I'm not sure where that puts her in terms of baby vs adult teeth.


Take a picture of her teeth and post it on here. ;-) I would guess from her age she is still growing her adult teeth. You will be able to tell this if her breath stinks and you keep finding teeth embedded in the soles of your feet.  Make sure she has things that she likes to chew.

I would say a correct poo should retain its shape when it hits the concrete and it should feel fairly solid when you pick it up with your hand inside a bag. It shouldn't leave stains or residue where it has been.

Taste of the Wild is the dry dog food I probably buy the most, but the variety you mentioned isn't available in my country so I haven't tried that one. The guidelines on the bag are way too high in my experience. My dog (a small adult standard with an active lifestyle) gets 3 meals a day -- one is usually a small meat joint and the other two are of two loose, small handfuls of dry food. A day's Taste of the Wild food for my dog would weigh 6 ounces. When my dog was a puppy I gave her far too much and she did plasticky poos that deformed when they hit the pavement and were not nice to clean up. She also used to be sick quite a lot, but she is sick far less often as an adult and I think that's just the way some puppies are. I've known plenty of vomity human children before so I wouldn't be surprised. It's only of concern if the dog is both vomiting and having frequent diarrhoea (liquid poo).

I think your dog's problems are probably a combination of a digestive upset caused by antibiotics and perhaps slightly too much food. Try feeding her slightly less food and see if her poo improves over time. Also, try to encourage her to rest after she eats and not to roam around the house and be silly as this is more likely to make her sick. I hope she gets better soon.


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