# Testing for DM



## KalaMama

Hi I just wanted to start a thread about testing for degenerative myelopathy. I ordered and got the results back on Luna for DM through OFA. To my surprise, she is a carrier. Needless to say, I wanted to do much more research since it hit a bit closer to home. I think this is a fairly new test and even those that have two allelles that are positive for DM may never show the disease, it is still important in my opinion to test for this if for no other reason than to prevent it ever being a problem. Luna is a Standard for those of you that may not know. I started browsing around Poodle sites of those that do a lot of testing and I didn't find that may were testing for this. What do you guys think about testing or not testing for DM for breeding purposes?


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

I entirely agree with you. We tested Jenny and Flynn. Jenny is clear, Flynn is a carrier. So, now we know, and will be certain that any girls he is bred to are tested and clear before we do a breeding. It certainly isn't the end of the world, but could feel like it if you unwittingly bred two carriers and were responsible for older dogs coming down with it, leaving a trail of broken hearts along the way, when it is so easy to prevent. All of our dogs will be tested for it.


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## cbrand

Funny thing about DM is that I don't think it was on anyone's radar before this year. If you asked most dog people, they would have said that it was a GSD problem. It is interesting that such a diverse group of Standards have shown up as carriers.


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## 3dogs

*DM in Chessie's...*

DM is fairly prominent in the Chesapeake Bay Retriever. I have 2 mixes (supposedly) so I had been on the Chessie board doing more research on the Chessie as a breed & DM is fairly common in the Chessies. There is of course a bit of controversy to breed or not to breed a carrier. While most think that if all carriers were s/n then the Chessie as a breed will loose even more diversity & the thing to do is to breed knowing what is being breed with what & to keep the carrier's in the gene pool just use them wisely. I had thought of testing my girls but I think I will do one of those DNA breed tests just see what they retriever breed they really are mixed with.


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## KalaMama

Arreau,
Flynn too? Hmm, it may be more prevalent in our breed than we think.

Cbrand, I agree. I have been to many breeder sites of breeders that I admire and I am thinking either they don't know about it or just have not updated their sites with the results of dm testing. 

On the flyer sent out with the test results from OFA it encourages breeders not to breed solely based on the test results due to limiting the genetic pool(as we have discussed on this forum before), but I don't think breeding a carrier or even an "affected" to a "clear" would be wrong if this works like most dominant/recessive diseases. Also, even the dogs who have two "bad" genes may not have the disease or may not show signs until really late in life. I guess this would be considered the lesser of the health problems in standard poodles, but I say test away so that we can cut it off at the pass by making sure to test both parents. 

For illustration purposes: 
A -normal gene 
a - affected gene

Luna is Aa, so if bred to a clear dog, AA
Aa + AA = Aa Aa AA AA
they would statistically produce 1/2 clear and 1/2 carrier and 0 affected puppies. This would not be an issue as long as all pet pups were spayed and any show/breeding pups were tested prior to breeding. 

Now if a dog was affected, aa, and bred to a clear AA
aa + AA = Aa Aa Aa Aa
this would produce all carrier pups. If it were me, I would try to prevent breeding an affected just for the sure fact that you know you will be carrying on the trait. The affected dog would have to be absolutely fantastic. At least with the first test breeding you have a chance of that one great show puppy in the litter be clear. 

Clearly a carrier or affected should never be bred with a carrier or affected because this could or would result in aa(affected puppy) which we are trying to prevent.
aa + Aa = Aa Aa aa aa or aa + aa = aa aa aa aa


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## ArreauStandardPoodle

I have been seeing the odd carrier pop up in pedigrees I have been looking at. So it is definately there. I hope more people will jump on the bandwagon so we all know what we are up against. Now that I know bout Flynn, I will insist anyone who wants to use him test their girl in advance of a breeding.

His paperwork said too that he will never be affected, and I got the same info about only using the results as a tool, and basically not throwing out the baby with the bath water when breeding.


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## A'n'A Mom

My personal opinion is that it's been there, but not on owner's/vet's radar. It's usually expressed later enough in life that it gets chalked up to "old age" or some unknown/unrealized spinal injury, shoulders get shrugged, everyone expresses regret and the dog continues to lose mobility until.... Since it was just "old age" or injury, people didn't connect the dots.

Thank goodness there's now a DNA test and breeders can breed around it. Basically, it's now like vonWillebrands or PRA in minis......there's no excuse for a Poodle to be afflicted with degenerative myelopathy. Period.

JM2CW....


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## tintlet

I've done the DM test on some of my dogs. Sort of have mixed feelings about it. An affected might get the problem as they age, but might not. also not sure if the carriers will have an issue. 

Talking with a couple of breeders of other breeds ( Berners, Kerry), they did not feel the test was accurate.


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## wishpoo

If it is recessive autosomal inheritance, than carrier is NEVER effected. 

I personally do not see why would anybody breed *affected* dog (aa) :afraid:. No matter how late in life disease happens it is still devastating : (((. It is tragic to have 1 year old die or getting crippled as much as it is tragic to have 7 year old crippled : (((. 

Since this particular disease is still low in incidence, than using genetic testing and avoiding producing "*aa*" dogs and lowering incidence of carriers is of utmost importance IMO.


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## passion4poodles

cbrand said:


> Funny thing about DM is that I don't think it was on anyone's radar before this year. If you asked most dog people, they would have said that it was a GSD problem. It is interesting that such a diverse group of Standards have shown up as carriers.


I would not say that is has not been on anyone's radar until this year, I followed the not only the recommendations of PCA, but also OFA as well and I had Kiara tested (clear) for this in late 09 early 10...I would just say that more research needs to be done by some breeders...IMHO :alberteinstein:


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## cbrand

wishpoo said:


> If it is recessive autosomal inheritance, than carrier is NEVER effected.
> 
> I personally do not see why would anybody breed *affected* dog (aa) :afraid:


Because if you bred an affected to a clear, you would get a whole litter of carriers, but in the next two generations you could breed away from it and have a clear line.


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## bigredpoodle

passion4poodles said:


> I would not say that is has not been on anyone's radar until this year, I followed the not only the recommendations of PCA, but also OFA as well and I had Kiara tested (clear) for this in late 09 early 10...I would just say that more research needs to be done by some breeders...IMHO :alberteinstein:


So true !!!!! Great statement .. This is something that I test for And a carrier is just that.. Afected should be eliminated.Personally unless the line were "Rare" i am not sure i would use a carrier.. But that is just me .. It seems like if this is so uncommon it would be fairly easy to find Clear animals for the program..


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