# Is it common for most groomers to not know how to scissor?



## akbritt (Aug 10, 2009)

I just took Misa to the groomers a little while ago this morning. I told her I wanted her to shape up her coat a little. She told me that she don't do scissoring, but she could clip her down to 1inch all over her body. I told her that I didn't want that, so she is just going to clip the face, neck, feet, and tail.
Last time I sent her she forgot to shave the neck area. So I made sure to mention it this morning. I just found it strange that she doesn't know anything but clipping. Is this common?? I will eventually have to find another groomer anyway if she doesn't scissor. A poodle owner doesn't want to hear that from their groomer. I'll post pictures today after I pick her up.


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## PonkiPoodles (Feb 25, 2009)

I think it depends on your groomer. If they went to grooming school I see no reason why they won't be able to scissor... but a lot of groomers never go to a grooming school and are pretty much self taught groomers or worked under just a mentor. 
My friend owns a schnauzer and she had the hardest time finding someone in her area that actually knew the proper cut for a schnauzer. Her dog kept coming back looking like something that fell off the back of a truck. So it might just be there is very little demand for scissoring in your area, or she just never learned it.


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

Well, I'd say scissoring is time consuming and in grooming time is money. If she's going to take hours to scissor a dog she's going to get $50 when she can get two done in that amount of time, she's going to do it the easy way. I know that my friend will not even take standard poodles because she doesn't want to waste the time for the amount of money she receives. She can do two smaller dogs in simpler cuts for less time and more money.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Yes, just like KPoos said, grooming a standard loses a lot of money. Groomers make commission and when you take a standard poodle in, you don't want to schedule any other dogs since they're so much work. Even clipping them takes awhile, but scissoring them takes much longer.

I'm fortunate that I'm a groomer, and when I get my standard(s) I'll have all the time in the world to groom them, the boyfriend and I are even going to set up a grooming station in the house.


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## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

akbritt said:


> She told me that she don't do scissoring, but she could clip her down to 1inch all over her body.


I think she probably meant that she doesn't do it, and not that she doesn't know how.


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## akbritt (Aug 10, 2009)

I understand scissoring takes a lot more time to do, but even the basic clips require some scissoring, like the topknot, the tail pom and the pom poms around the ankles. She doesn't even do that. I wanted to bring Misa in for a lamb clip in the spring but that requires scissoring too.
If she knew how to scissor I think she would do it...and I wouldn't mind paying extra for a perfect clip. I think I'm going to have a hard time finding someone in my area that will scissor. I've only used groomers with privately owned shops, I wonder if I used a grooming chain i would have better luck?? do you think?


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## akbritt (Aug 10, 2009)

Marian said:


> I think she probably meant that she doesn't do it, and not that she doesn't know how.


I actually think that she may not know how. Because she seems like the type that would put in the extra work if we came to an agreement with a higher fee. I don't think she has many clients at this time, but I'm not sure. I think, at Misa's next grooming appointment I will discuss this with her and see if she can put in a little extra work for me if she does know how to scissor.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Wait wait.. she doesn't know how to do the topknot or tail? Wow.. that's pretty bad. Sounds like she wasn't fully trained, ANYONE that grooms should know how to do that. Find somewhere else.

Yes, find a grooming chain. Just like a store that won't put someone not trained on a register, a large company won't put someone in grooming that can't do it, and if they can't, they'e being trained. Ask for the most experienced groomer there, and even at a large chain like Petco or Petsmart, it will be the same price for an experienced groomer than a new one.

Just ask for the basic bath, brush, and haircut. They'll try to sell you into conditioner and toothbrushing, but your pup shouldn't need her teeth done yet and imo you never should condition a poodle coat.


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## Harley_chik (Nov 7, 2008)

Grooming schools aren't regulated and anyone can open one, some are great, some are just in for the money and the rest fall somewhere inbetween. Going to school doesn't automatically mean you're getting a better groomer. There are many excellent groomers that are self taught or learned as an apprentice. There are grooming associations that certify groomers, ISCC and NDGA. You could look for a groomer that is certified by one of these group, but I make sure to see the certification. Some groomers lie and some fly by night schools offer similar titles. Certifying can be expensive and require lots of traveling, so don't rule out a groomer just b/c they aren't certified.

I personally don't think it's that easy, you have to do some grunt work to find the right groomer. Talk to them, ask to see pics of their work and make sure you fell comfortable leaving your dog w/ them. Talk to anyone w/ a nicely groomed poodle, especially a standard. They should be able to point you in the right direction. You could also go to a dog show. I plan on grooming my spoo myself, but I've found a great groomer about an hour away, if I need her. She's actually the one that led my to the breeder I'm talking too. I met the groomer at a dog show, where she was handling her dog.


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

Is your groomer older by chance? (Please nobody get offended if you happen to be an older groomer and are reading this LoL)
The reason I ask is that grooming really takes a toll on the body and a lot of groomers who've been in the business a long time have trouble with hands and wrists or back trouble, which may prevent them from offering certain services or doing certain breeds. Another thing to consider regaurdless of age is that your groomer may have had a past injury to hand/wrist and can no longer scissor. I know of a poodle breeder in my area that this happened to. She was in a car accident and can no longer scissor, thus she no longer shows since she can't really groom her own dogs. All of the dogs she keeps, are kept short these days. Even doing simple things like topknots can be painful in some cases I guess. That would really limit your grooming my opinion since every dog has a head and almost every head you'll use scissors on even if it's just to blend it into a shaved body or trim bangs.

One more point may be that your groomer simply doesn't like to scissor, which I can't understand or relate to since I would scissor dogs 24/7 if I could. I have a good friend who just opened a shop and as fantastic as her scissor skills are she hates it so basicly she doesn't offer it. She cannot understand or relate to the fact that I simple HATE shave down to her thats the best kind of groom. If I never had to shave a dog again I'd be a happy groomer, if I could do everything with a gaurd comb and then scissor or just hand scissor or hand strip all over I'd be in heaven lol.


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

Fluffyspoos said:


> , but your pup shouldn't need her teeth done yet and imo you never should condition a poodle coat.


It's never to early to start brushing the teeth  If you wait you may end up with a puppy who won't tolerate it. I started brushing Saleen's weekly, sometimes twice a week or more the day I brought her home. Same with Jazz but she was already and adult so she doesn't count.


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## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

If she's not scissoring anything at all she doesn't know how. You have to scissor some areas. I thought you were talking about body scissoring but if she's not even willing to do a topknot I'd look for someone else that will. Petsmart did okay with Harry the couple of times we took him in when he was younger. It's up to you and what you like. Just remember hair grows back. I took Harry in once before I started doing him myself and my husband told them to cut some length off his ears. Oh boy he came back with bobbed ears. I was soo mad because that's not what I had in mind at all. It grows back but it can be frustrating looking for that groomer that knows what you want and is going to do it for you.


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

Lol, I think I could do an ok topknot or tail and I'm completely self taught since we got our standard last year


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## akbritt (Aug 10, 2009)

Yeah, I know for a fact she hasn't scissored her top knot or her tail pom...her poor tail looks pitiful really. I noticed yesterday after a member pointed out that she didnt cut the nails, that in one of the pictures i took she missed hair while clipping Misa's face.









I am going to go back to her once more and talk to her. I think my husband was more unsatisfied with the grooming then I was. He wants me to call around now to find someone who would do a better job. And if that fails I will have to drive 40 miles to my closest petsmart.


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## Sara (Aug 2, 2009)

I don't know what you have in your area for groomer options but if you have others I personally wouldn't be spending time trying to work with her. Even if she did know how to sizzor and was willing to do it for you if you paid extra, what would the quality be if she isn't keeping the skill fine tuned by doing it regularly?

The first groomer I took Lorelei to let her dry curly and didn't sizzor anything. When I asked her to leave the legs on the long side I honestly didn't expect that she would come out looking like she was wearing eskimo boots or something. It actually was kind of cute but I was afraid people would think I had tried to groom her myself and didn't get it right. 

The next groomer has done a much better job. I realize Lorelei gets restless while she's being groomed and isn't always as still as she should be so I was ok with a few small spots being missed, I'd rather have that right now then to have her resent being groomed. I'm going to talk to her about the shape of her top knot and hopefully she won't be insulted if I ask her to blend it into the neck a little more ( right now my husband and I call it the alpaca clip).

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that you need to know when to try to work with someone and when to move on.


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

hehe, I love scissoring too! I usually scissor the lower legs on most dogs, just cos it's cuter. lol. 

I would be keen to give her another chance and really make SURE one way or another if she really means she won't scissor anything ever, or if she's willing to work with you and develop a nice trim. She could have any number of the reasonble reasons already mentioned, and might still be able to do a very nice trim!

But yeah, if nothing changes, I'd be looking at someone else.... Don't bang small private places though, that's wher I learned and work!


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Wow! >( She missed a whole chunk! I hate these groomers out there that are getting on the job without full experience hoping for a quick buck, making the rest of us groomers look bad. I'm sorry for your experience with this groomer, I hope you didn't pay an arm and a leg for her services.


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

Oh dear, she sure did miss a spot. I might call around in your area and try a new groomer. I try and give people second chances but that, added to missed nails and not trimming the TK, I dunno I might not be especialy forgiving.


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## bpk082 (Feb 3, 2009)

As my experience as a groomer for 6 yrs I do whatever I can on a dog. clipping and snipping anything if needed. I just charge more lmao. plus I can't stand seeing unfinished dogs, I become OCD about it hahaha.


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## cybercat (Nov 15, 2008)

If a groomer will not scissor then she is not a groomer but just a shaver. Being a groomer that did go to a good school and has worked up the East Coast I have seen alot of shavers call themselfs groomers. I have also worked in petsmart and petco and can tell you that many of them are not great groomers. There are some that are and they are getting to be more, but many are not.

I used to have 2 standards come to me from same owner. It never took very long to do them and I hand dried and scissored their finished. I rather do a standard any day as appose a couple of cockers. When my 2 came in I only would drop one dog so instead of 6 I would do 5. But I would make more with the standards than the dog I cut. If you are good at poodles you get alot and most owners tip well too. Since I worked for petco at the time the owner with the 2 did not get a price break so she paid the $70.00 per dog.

OK, if you need help finding a good groomer go to the NDGA web site. They have a search there. But know this not all groomers are members most are not. Your best best is just to call around and ask about there scissoring and get a poodle referal. Good luck on finding a real groomer.


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## akbritt (Aug 10, 2009)

Sara said:


> The first groomer I took Lorelei to* let her dry curly and didn't sizzor anything.* When I asked her to leave the legs on the long side I honestly didn't expect that she would come out looking like she was wearing eskimo boots or something. It actually was kind of cute but I was afraid people would think I had tried to groom her myself and didn't get it right.


:scared::doh:
oh geezzzz

I'm glad you found someone else.
I guess its not so uncommon to go through groomers before you find the right one.


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## akbritt (Aug 10, 2009)

flyingduster;39636 [B said:


> ]hehe, I love scissoring too! I usually scissor the lower legs on most dogs, just cos it's cuter. lol.
> [/B]
> I would be keen to give her another chance and really make SURE one way or another if she really means she won't scissor anything ever, or if she's willing to work with you and develop a nice trim. She could have any number of the reasonble reasons already mentioned, and might still be able to do a very nice trim!
> 
> But yeah, if nothing changes, I'd be looking at someone else.... Don't bang small private places though, that's wher I learned and work!


I wish you lived closer to me ...I would have you groom Misa!


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## akbritt (Aug 10, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Wow! >( She missed a whole chunk! I hate these groomers out there that are getting on the job without full experience hoping for a quick buck, making the rest of us groomers look bad. I'm sorry for your experience with this groomer, I hope you didn't pay an arm and a leg for her services.


I know right!!!???

If my daughter wasn't trying to pet Misa when i was taking that picture i wouldn't even have noticed it. Oh yeah...its only been 4 days since her groom and I have to clip Misa's nails...I hear them when she walks on the floor. She didn't even bother clipping Misa's nails at all.:mad2:


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## akbritt (Aug 10, 2009)

WonderPup said:


> Oh dear, she sure did miss a spot. I might call around in your area and try a new groomer. I try and give people second chances but that, added to missed nails and not trimming the TK, I dunno I might not be especialy forgiving.


LOL
I really wanted to give her another chance but I think your right.


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## akbritt (Aug 10, 2009)

cybercat said:


> If a groomer will not scissor then she is not a groomer but just a shaver. Being a groomer that did go to a good school and has worked up the East Coast I have seen alot of shavers call themselfs groomers. I have also worked in petsmart and petco and can tell you that many of them are not great groomers. There are some that are and they are getting to be more, but many are not.
> 
> I used to have 2 standards come to me from same owner. It never took very long to do them and I hand dried and scissored their finished. I rather do a standard any day as appose a couple of cockers. When my 2 came in I only would drop one dog so instead of 6 I would do 5. But I would make more with the standards than the dog I cut. If you are good at poodles you get alot and most owners tip well too. Since I worked for petco at the time the owner with the 2 did not get a price break so she paid the $70.00 per dog.
> 
> OK, if you need help finding a good groomer go to the NDGA web site. They have a search there. But know this not all groomers are members most are not. Your best best is just to call around and ask about there scissoring and get a poodle referal. Good luck on finding a real groomer.


Thank you!
I don't think $70.00 is that bad really. For $20 more than what i paid for this last groom I would be willing to paid that for a groom I wanted.
I'm going to check out that website and call around.


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

thats a bummer that she didn't clip the nails at all  shame shame. How often do you get her groomed, she's still pretty young isn't she? Maybe you can find a groomer that has a special deal for puppies. I offer one for clients to come in every two weeks and get a face, feet, and tail trim, (on a poodles I'd probably do a light scissor to keep things looking nice), and bath/brush/nails/ears. It's on flat fee and applies as long as you keep your dog on schedual. At five/six months the price bumps to the adult price. Usualy I like to see babies at least four times before we start attempting to do all over clips on them just to get them used to the process and comfortable. Anyway the price is pretty cheap between 15-25 dollars for the puppies, sometimes it depends on the breed. This saves owners $$ AND saves me from having to deal with pain in the butt never been groomed before adult dogs lol.  You might also find a groomer who is willing to offer a small discount if you come super often. Again this is something I do. I have one comming in tomarrow that gets 15$ off the regular spoo price b/c she comes every other week without fail. I do whatever needs to be done at the time, about every other or every third visit she gets an all over haircut and scissor the other visits she gets FFT and any light scissoring needed to keep her looking neat. I have a lot of clients that opt for this actualy. Some groomers disagree with discounting services but if you do the math I still come out way ahead money wise by getting them in twice a month than if I charged my full price and they only came in once a month or every 6 weeks  They get a deal, I get a deal what more can you ask for right ? LoL. (Normaly I dont give 15 bucks off btw, thats a special case, the discount is normaly just 10% on a single dog's regular price and doesn't include any special services that I offer)


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## akbritt (Aug 10, 2009)

WonderPup said:


> thats a bummer that she didn't clip the nails at all  shame shame. How often do you get her groomed, she's still pretty young isn't she? Maybe you can find a groomer that has a special deal for puppies. I offer one for clients to come in every two weeks and get a face, feet, and tail trim, (on a poodles I'd probably do a light scissor to keep things looking nice), and bath/brush/nails/ears. It's on flat fee and applies as long as you keep your dog on schedual. At five/six months the price bumps to the adult price. Usualy I like to see babies at least four times before we start attempting to do all over clips on them just to get them used to the process and comfortable. Anyway the price is pretty cheap between 15-25 dollars for the puppies, sometimes it depends on the breed. This saves owners $$ AND saves me from having to deal with pain in the butt never been groomed before adult dogs lol.  You might also find a groomer who is willing to offer a small discount if you come super often. Again this is something I do. I have one comming in tomarrow that gets 15$ off the regular spoo price b/c she comes every other week without fail. I do whatever needs to be done at the time, about every other or every third visit she gets an all over haircut and scissor the other visits she gets FFT and any light scissoring needed to keep her looking neat. I have a lot of clients that opt for this actualy. Some groomers disagree with discounting services but if you do the math I still come out way ahead money wise by getting them in twice a month than if I charged my full price and they only came in once a month or every 6 weeks  They get a deal, I get a deal what more can you ask for right ? LoL. (Normaly I dont give 15 bucks off btw, thats a special case, the discount is normaly just 10% on a single dog's regular price and doesn't include any special services that I offer)


I get Misa groomed every 4-6 weeks.... usually by the 4th or 5th week I'm itching to take her because its getting hard to keep her little butt clean....and I get worried about ear cannal hair...I do my best to pluck myself...but Misa HATES it and crys...so I know I'm probably not getting it all.

WOW 15-25$ for puppies?? That's great! The first time i took Misa to get groomed she charged me 35 dollars and this last time it was $45...I guess she was trying to get me as a client the first groom. The first time she did the FFT with no neck clipping...ear plucking (because I requested that) butt area, brush and bath and nails. This last time she did the FFT with neck (because I requested that, because she didn't do it the last time)butt area, ear plucking, bath and brush. She did inform me that when Misa gets her adult coat she will raise the price, which is normal. I have to say she did a better job the first visit, or at least i didnt notice anything.

A member here, private messaged me and gave me a name of a person who was apart of the Central Carolina Poodle Club who lived closest to me...I emailed this lady this morning, asking if she could refer me to someone, which she couldn't, but still offered me very useful information, and I am going to use this person as a contact and ask her questions if I need to. I send her a picture of Misa, and she told me that it looked like the groomer, shaved over Misa's eyes!!!!!!!She said it was a big NO NO. That she was supposed to scissor that part only. I didnt even tell this lady what the groomer did or forgot to do. She could tell by looking at the picture, that I needed to go to someone else and never look back.

I just hate that this groomer doesn't know what she is doing when it comes to poodles, because i really liked her and she was very sweet with Misa. But I have to find someone else, no question about it.


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

It would be nice if some groomers would just come out and say 'Hey you know what I'm not good at poodles but so and so down the street does a great job on them" That would be helpful.


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## cybercat (Nov 15, 2008)

You are right Wonderpup but most won't admit they do not have the training. To do poodles right it does take training too. Lots of practice. Other breeds are easier to learn fast but poodle take a little but of time and lots of energy.

AKbritt if I was closer to you i would help you out. Not knowing where in NC you are if you are East or West or middle. You might want to pick up a DVD on grooming poodle and try training yourself. There are many good ones out there. I am sure some here can recomend a few they liked and workes for them.

One piece of knowledge equipment does make alot of differance. One can be a execllent groomer but be using the wrong equipment and a groom will not look great. The you can have a OK groomer that uses better equipment and the dog will look fantstic. Yes, equipment does make that much of a differance. So if you plan to try doing youur dog your self try to get at least the best scissors you can afford. They will make it easier and look alot nicer.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Wait.. you paid $50 for that groom? Seriously? For the face and feet, and a bath and brush? No no no.. that's not right. That's the price for a complete poodle groom at my salon, and what you got should've have been more than $25, especially since she's a puppy.


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## WonderPup (Oct 26, 2008)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Wait.. you paid $50 for that groom? Seriously? For the face and feet, and a bath and brush? No no no.. that's not right. That's the price for a complete poodle groom at my salon, and what you got should've have been more than $25, especially since she's a puppy.


I think price varies by location, but 50 bucks is still a bit much to pay for FFT on a smaller standard. 

I personly wouldn't do standard, even puppy, for 25 bucks unless it was comming every couple of weeks. Unless you're in my 'puppy program', in which case you're price is set at one flat fee, you'd get charged the full adult price.


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