# Food that's too rich/ loose stools



## cheryl4237 (May 19, 2010)

I think someone suggested on previous dog food thread, that loose stools, could be caused by the food being too rich. I'm trying to decide what to switch Charlie over to, because of his poor poop. But I have no idea how to tell if one food is more or less rich than another:doh:! Does it need to have less crude protein? His stool was great when I was in the process of switching him from science diet, and he was getting half blue, and half science, but I don't really want to start mixing in a low quality food just to firm up his poop:wacko:
Help!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Honestly, I think it is guess and check. You just have to try and see what happens.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

My dogs have all had very loose stools when I had them on Wellness chicken.
I switched to lamb then to another brand also chicken based and then lamb base.
I figured it must be the chicken turkey that cause them having loose stools.
I then was introduced to Fromm Salmon A La Veggies and this food has worked magic. I never had a soft stool since. Great food and easy to digest as it is protein based on fish and not chicken or lamb or turkey. 
Some dogs just cant tollerate chicken and turkey is even harder to tollerate for some dogs. 

Yes it is a fact that many a times dogs will have soft stools because of the richenss of the kibble.

Try Fromm Salmon , I dont believe you will regret it.


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

Is your dog a puppy?? The reason I ask is that sometimes puppies have worms and that can cause loose stools. You just want to eliminate medical reasons for loose stools before you start playing around with food.


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## Karma'sACat (Jun 1, 2010)

Honestly, this is very dog specific. There is no kibble my Lola can be on and have normal stools. A mix of allergies and intolerances made processed food with so many ingredients a non-option for us.
Dixie, on the other hand, could eat any grain-free with no chicken.


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## cheryl4237 (May 19, 2010)

> Poodle Lover said:
> 
> 
> > Is your dog a puppy?? The reason I ask is that sometimes puppies have worms and that can cause loose stools. You just want to eliminate medical reasons for loose stools before you start playing around with food.


No worms, I had him checked at his last vet visit, about two weeks ago


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Too much food can also cause loose stools, as it passes through undigested.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

I tried grain free and it was too rich for my dogs. Or I may have been switching them too fast. But they're thriving on the feed I have them on now. It works for all 4 so I'm staying with it.


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

cheryl4237 said:


> No worms, I had him checked at his last vet visit, about two weeks ago


I am glad your baby is worms free. 
What kind of Blue are you feeding your baby?


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## rubymom (Apr 24, 2010)

Ruby had a few soft stools when she first came, but i think that it was due to the new home adjustment. She was on Canadae ALS but I switched her after the first month. I gradually reduced the Canadae and added in the Wellness Puppy. She has has firm stools the entire process! Guess chicken agrees with her!


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## cheryl4237 (May 19, 2010)

He's on blue buffalo chicken and rice, large breed puppy right now. I want to try getting him on a fish protein food, to see if that helps, but I'm having trouble finding one for large breed puppies. After he's one, does he need to be on a large breed adult food? Or can he just have a regular adult blend?
Whitepoodles: does fromm have the salmon in Lg. puppy that you know of?


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

cheryl4237;116244 said:


> He's on blue buffalo chicken and rice, large breed puppy right now. I want to try getting him on a fish protein food, to see if that helps, but I'm having trouble finding one for large breed puppies. After he's one, does he need to be on a large breed adult food? Or can he just have a regular adult blend?
> Whitepoodles: does fromm have the salmon in Lg. puppy that you know of?


Cheryl 4237

It is a very good idea to switch to a fish based protein diet. I have done this with MUCH success. 
From personal experience I found that feeding puppies starting as young as 3.5 weeks of age on ADULT MAINTENANCE FROMM Salmon A La Veggies has given me super results that I feel comfortable with.

I know that Fromm maintenance (Salmon & Veggies) can safely be fed to growing puppies. The fish based protein of 26% is more than sufficient for growing pups and you do not need to put them on a puppy food.
But that is my personal experience from years of breeding for health.

I would not introduce my puppies to puppy food anylonger since I have attended Pat Hasting's seminar and saw the structural defects caused by feeding young puppies puppy food. As long as the maintenance forumula has sufficient protein levels and fat % to provide optimum nutrition to your young puppy, there is no need for puppy formula.. but that is my opinion, which may not be shared by everyone here..

So bascially you will have to do what is good for you and your poodle.

For me, raising puppies on Fromm Salmon A La Veggies (maintenance/adult formula) (There is NO puppy formula made by Fromm 4 star ) has proven to work beautifully.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Cheryl, you can definitely switch Charlie to regular adult food now. However, it will not hurt your puppy to keep him on _Large Breed_ puppy food. _Regular_ puppy food could cause the structural defects that Whitepoodles is referring to, but *high* *quality* Large Breed Puppy food should be already formulated to slow down the growth of puppies (which is what you want) and prevent the pain associated with growing too fast. I currently feed Millie (6 1/2 mo.) a combination of Innova LB puppy and Instinct all life stages Salmon formula. 

The thing that I really like about Innova's Large Breed Puppy food (and you might want to look at the nutrent analysis for other LB puppy foods) is that the calcium and phosphorus is .9 and .72 respectively. It is important to know that the protein level is not _nearly_ as important in slowing growth as the calcium/phosphorus ratio. I have noticed in some of the All Life Stages that the calcium/phosphorus is much higher than I would like for my puppy. Up until recently (her growing has really started to slow down) Millie grew consistently 1 - 1.5 pounds a week while eating this food and has never had a growth spurt. I really think the food I fed her helped keep her growing nice and slow. 

So, whether you choose to feed Charlie LB Puppy or Adult Maintenance, make sure the calcium/phosphorus are not too high. You want it to be lower than 1.2. I just looked at the Blue that you have been feeding Charlie and the calcium/phosphorus are actually higher in the LB Puppy than the Adult, so in that case I would switch him to adult if you choose to stay on Blue Buffalo. If you look for a new adult (or LB food) I would try to find the lowest calcium/phosphorus. 

Good luck!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I did some food research for you!

Non-fish based, but still good levels of Calcium/Phosphorus:
Acana Adult
Acana Large Breed Puppy
Innova Large Breed Puppy
Petcurean go NOW! Adult
Fromm Surf & Turf
Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul: Large Breed Puppy Formula

Fish based:

Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Fish formula (All Life Stages food with excellent calc/phos. levels. Also good food for food sensitivities. And, it is available at Petco!)

Fromm Salmon 'A La Veg (all life stages - great calcium/phosphorus)

Fromm Whitefish and Potato (ditto)

Nature's Variety "Instinct" Salmon Formula (All Life Stages - Henry eats this and Millie eats some of it mixed in her other food. I can't find the calc/phos. levels on their website but you could call the company if you are interested)

Canidae Fresh Salmon Formula (great calc./phos)

Wellness Whitefish and Sweet Potato (ditto. and available at Petco and Petsmart)

Holistic Select Radiant Adult Health Anchovy, Sardine and Salmon Meal Formula (great calc/phos.)

Pinnacle Trout and Sweet Potato Dry Formula (ditto)

Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream (All Life Stages - call company for calc./phos.)


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

temperance has been on adult feed since about 3 months old. currently all 4 of my dogs are eating wellness since it seems to be agreeing with them. i like having everyone on the same food ... really simplifies my life heh.


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## cheryl4237 (May 19, 2010)

Thanks so so much everyone!!!!!
And thanks Millie, for looking up all those foods
I've got it narrowed down to either Fromm Salmon (you made it sound absolutely wonderful whitepoodles!) or Natural Balance sweet potato and fish. I'll make a final decision tomorrow.
My eye balls feel like their going to fall out from reading ingredient list and reviews all day!!


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## Rosary94 (May 17, 2010)

Ted's been having the same problem, and he's on home-cooked food at the moment. I read that putting a bit of canned pumpkin in the food helps out.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

[.
My eye balls feel like their going to fall out from reading ingredient list and reviews all day!![/QUOTE]

This is because you care enough about your baby to give them the best.


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## stephanielauger (Aug 30, 2010)

I had such a hard time w/ August when he was a puppy, every single day... I was feeding a high protien/grain free to my other dogs and he just could not handle it. Started on Acana Pacific, all fish protien, and the problem was immediately fixed, overnight!


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

stephanielauger;116550 said:


> I had such a hard time w/ August when he was a puppy, every single day... I was feeding a high protien/grain free to my other dogs and he just could not handle it. Started on Acana Pacific, all fish protien, and the problem was immediately fixed, overnight!


Same here !... Cole was allergic to chicken and grain and could not tollerate some foods. 

The moment I switched him to Acana Pacifica 30% protein all returned to normal. He is thriving beautifully on Acana Pacifica while my other dogs are doing very well on Fromm (four star) Salmon A La Veggies and other flavors within the same brand of food. 

Both excellent foods... 

I find that fish based diet will in most case answer all problem and food allergies and I prefer to feed fish based protein , and not animal or fowl protein.


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## taxtell (Sep 17, 2009)

Orijen makes a fish product too.
6 Fish Dog

I won't get on my soap box about feeding raw. 

If I had to feed kibble that would be my choice.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

taxtell said:


> Orijen makes a fish product too.
> 6 Fish Dog
> 
> I won't get on my soap box about feeding raw.
> ...


I personally would not feed Orijen 6Fish to a puppy. The calcium/phosphorus is way to high for my liking, especially when there are other foods out there with lower. 

Acana Pacific is a little high for my liking as well


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## taxtell (Sep 17, 2009)

I really liked this from someone on dogster, she posted this summary after doing extensive research on nutrition, etc.
This is an excerpt:
*Myth*: I cannot feed a grainfree kibble as they all have levels of calcium and phosphorus that are too high for my large breed puppy.

*Fact*: While many grainfree kibbles are inappropriate for large breed puppies (Wellness Core, Taste of the Wild, Canidae GF, Evo, etc) there are grainfree kibbles specifically formulated for large breed puppies. Orijen is one such company.
I also would like to caution those who see a food that is listed for "All Life Stages" and think it will be okay for a large breed puppy. PLEASE PLEASE check the maximum analysis on these foods. Taste of the Wild and Canidae both claim to have grainfree all life stages foods, but when you check out their maximum analysis they are completely inappropriate for a large breed puppy.
_Conversely, Orijen also makes 6 Fresh Fish, which is an All Life Stages food and does indeed have the appropriate levels fro a growing puppy._
The rule of thumb is 4-4.5g of calcium per every 1000 calories.

Here is a link to the entire post:
http://www.dogster.com/forums/Food_and_Nutrition/thread/663911


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I did some research and listed in a previous post the foods that IMO have acceptable levels of calcium/phosphorus. Orijen has percentages that are too high for my liking. This is a helpful resource that explains the importance of restricting calcium/phosphorus for large breed puppies.
Large Breed Puppy Food Skeptvet.com

There is also a very informative article by Jennifer Larsen called Optimal Feeding of Large Breed Puppies. I cannot seem to find the web address, but here is an excerpt:

_"The common practice of feeding commercially available adult dog foods to puppies can also be detrimental. The broad category of adult canine maintenance foods contains diets with a wide range of nutrient profiles, caloric densities, and mineral contents. Some foods marketed for adult maintenance have passed AAFCO feeding tests for growth, but some have not. Regardless, in some instances, these diets provide more calcium per calorie and/or have more calories per cup than growth diets designed for large breed puppies. A large breed growth diet that has passed AAFCO animal feeding tests should be fed at least until the puppy reaches about 80% of the expected adult weight, and it will not be detrimental to keep a healthy, lean puppy on growth formula until full adult size is achieved. Above all, remember to feed a large breed growth formula in sufficient quantities to maintain a lean body condition, and avoid additional supplements."_ [Larsen].

I don't have a problem with feeding ALS foods, or adult foods, but I think it is important to make sure the calcium and phos. are as low as the high quality large breed formulas.

I also want to add that I am not a vet or an expert, I just tend to do a lot of research! (That's what happens to us grad students).


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## taxtell (Sep 17, 2009)

I can't take Skeptvet.com seriously, sorry.
He/she has old school ideals and is anti-raw.

Most vets (including my boss until recently) think raw is scary and all pets should be eating Royal Canin, Purina Vet Diets or even Science Diet.

He's seen the results of raw feeding in my dogs and other patients and quickly changed his tune.

Sheesh, on further reading..he/she is against a LOT of things.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I'm not saying that Orijen6Fish is a bad food. In fact, it is on the top of my list of foods that I might feed Millie once she is older. However, I still maintain that All Life Stages foods such as Fromm, Natural Balance and Taste of the Wild are better fish choices for puppies because they have lower calcium and phosphorus. Everyone has different opinions. Some would say that the high protein in Orijen6Fish is not ideal for puppies, but I am less concerned about that.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Double post. Sorry.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

taxtell said:


> Sheesh, on further reading..he/she is against a LOT of things.


I think that's why he's called the "skept" vet..ha ha


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## taxtell (Sep 17, 2009)

ChocolateMillie said:


> I think that's why he's called the "skept" vet..ha ha


LOL, yeah.
He should be called the 'anti everything that isn't textbook' vet.
Or perhaps the 'old guy who can't adjust to change' vet.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

ChocolateMillie said:


> I'm not saying that Orijen6Fish is a bad food. In fact, it is on the top of my list of foods that I might feed Millie once she is older. However, I still maintain that All Life Stages foods such as Fromm, Natural Balance and Taste of the Wild are better fish choices for puppies because they have lower calcium and phosphorus. Everyone has different opinions. Some would say that the high protein in Orijen6Fish is not ideal for puppies, but I am less concerned about that.



I agree and not only do I agree but some of these companies making the very high protein kibble (40% and up) will actually advice against feeding young puppies such a high level of protein and actually state "May not be suitable for your puppies"


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