# Breeding stud dogs



## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

So if breeders are barely breaking even on the litters out of their bitches, they are certainly making a substantial income on championed top stud dogs if one is in high demand. 27 litters are valued at $54,000 by a certain champion. Yeah that's a good income there when you've just finished a champion male and don't have to raise a litter.:scared:


----------



## TinyPoodles (Nov 25, 2009)

*Stud*

Studs... yeah that sounds like a small fortune ...but if they are showign every weekend towards top dog awards well...we ALL know how that can add up too...

Some choices as a stud owner:

If you aspire to be a well known stud owner and producer of quality pups then you have to be really careful of who you stud to. Only stud to superior females.

You can co-breed/co-own the litters. 

Go a step further and stipulate that the resulting pups (show quality) be sold on condition that they be shown  

Those pups champion and now you (just the stud owner and co-breeder) have produced how many champions ?? could add up quickly... 

Only owning males you can also show non-stop (no heats, no pregnancies to deal with) can rack up a wack of points towards top dog awards too. 

Also with accomplishing so many champion progeny out of those males you could get merrit awards and also probably work quickly towards 
getting their kennel name registered and also becoming judges 

Now that is in the event that everything works out perfectly (how many times does that happen to a breeder ?). 

Breed to a bitch with health issues behind her (say a carrier of something) and her puppy is bred to another carrier... all of a sudden pups are produced as carriers or affected and your male (and you as breeder ) are going to be under a microscope... There are risks with owning a stud too 

Certainly sure seems "easier" than producing and raising litters though you are right about that !!


----------



## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Are you going to finish that dog yourself or with a pro? With a pro? Let's put a dollar amount of $4000 (that would be really cheap) on that championship. Testing? Another $1000 (at least). Advertising? $400 a year. Cost of dog? $1500. 

You have around $7000 into your dog and now he is ready to breed! Except.... who uses him? There are plenty of Champion dogs in my area that never get used. Heck, I didn't use them myself. If I am going to go to the trouble and expense of breeding, I want to breed to something that is close to Specials quality and those dogs are few and far between.

So then do you sell your soul? Do you start breeding to anyone who will pay your stud fee? There are a number of stud owners like this in our area. Heck, they will breed their Poodle to anything that will stand for 'em. You could certainly make some money this way and as a bonus the owners of unfinished, BYB quality bitches usually don't know or care about testing.

I think the best reason to keep a stud dog is that you absolutely LOVE him and you want to go forward with his set of genes. This usually means going out and buying a quality bitch from a line you really like and finishing her so that you have something to breed to your boy. 

If you are going to hang your hat on outside breedings, you will be sorely disappointed.


----------



## Poodlepal (Nov 1, 2009)

There really is no money in stud dogs *unless* you happen to have one of the top top dogs who goes on to special and succeed and be in high demand. The few and far between dogs that bring in that kind of cash are the rare exception, NOT the rule. Even with that dog, I can almost guarantee that those earnings are WAAAAY less considering the money spend campaigning and advertising. Sure, the standard stud fee of $1500 or so sounds like you could really make some money if you can really get out there and breed that dog, but there are soooooo many stud dogs out there and really, if a breeder knows what they are doing, they are looking for a specific dog with specific traits that compliment their bitch. Every dog is different, and the dog that compliments one bitch doesn't compliment another. You might be really lucky to breed your stud dog a couple of times a year, even so, you have several health tests that need to be repeated annually. ......also remembering as mentioned above all of the money that went into the dog in the first place. And the Specials that are in high demand?....well, it costs TONS of money to campaign and special them, so really they probably aren't making that much money either. And if they had sponsors, those sponsors are going to be wanting a cut as well.


----------



## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

Cbrand that is really cheap ! And one of my girlfriends just paid her handling bill of 1000.00 for one point .....Last I knew to "Special" a dog was around 45000.00 per year Handling fees show entries and advertising...Wow at 1500.00 a stud service you would sure have to stud that dog out alot to break even....And then there is all the testing and the hassle of having someone elses in season bitch shipped to your house disrupting the whole peace of the place, going tot he airport to pick her up doing the breeding then taking her back to the airport fuel both ways..And are we counting the time to groom, the food, the vet bills shots and training? Is the stud dog owners time worth anything, or in this thought process are we considering all of this to be a labor of love ? That is when you are putting a dollar value on stud dogs....IMHO....


----------



## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

Right..... Specialling a dog cost big bucks. I was only assigning a dollar value to the championship. That dollar value was assuming that the dog was very, very good quality and at a place in its life where it was ready to win. 

Truth is, you want to promote a stud, you have to have it out there showing and winning. If people don't see your dog, they won't know to breed to it.


----------



## bigredpoodle (Sep 13, 2009)

cbrand said:


> Right..... Specialling a dog cost big bucks. I was only assigning a dollar value to the championship. That dollar value was assuming that the dog was very, very good quality and at a place in its life where it was ready to win.
> 
> Truth is, you want to promote a stud, you have to have it out there showing and winning. If people don't see your dog, they won't know to breed to it.


This is so true Cbrand.. That quote of 45000.00 was from the late 90's BTW..
Imagine what it is now...We are talking AKC of course and NOT UKC....
And in another thread the subject of cheating and dogs of color is brought up to a very good point as well ....


----------



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Oops, went to post something here, but it was the wrong place.


----------



## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

Most of these big kennels aren't just charging $1500 for stud fees. Even in roxy's thread someone quoted her anywhere from $1500-5000 for stud fees. If you've been specialing a dog and spending the money to get it out there a person wanting to use him is going going to pay $$$ for the stud fees. $5000 stud fees add up quick and there's no way you aren't going to earn money and be able to support yourself from it. That's just ONE dog. That doesn't take into account all of the others that are co-owned and the original breeder takes half of the fee.


----------



## KalaMama (Nov 20, 2009)

Just curious, does it matter if they made money on it or not? What would be wrong with that? To me if they go through all the trouble, time and money to get there dog to that point then they probably deserve to make a little money.


----------



## KPoos (Aug 29, 2009)

KalaMama said:


> Just curious, does it matter if they made money on it or not? What would be wrong with that?


Absolutely NOTHING as long as they don't stand around crying about how much they are losing and saying that they are doing it for the breed. Come now we aren't all stupid, just say it like it is and be honest about it and I'll have a lot more respect for you.


----------



## KalaMama (Nov 20, 2009)

KPoos said:


> Absolutely NOTHING as long as they don't stand around crying about how much they are losing and saying that they are doing it for the breed. Come now we aren't all stupid, just say it like it is and be honest about it and I'll have a lot more respect for you.


Yes, I know what you mean by that.


----------

