# Poodle Prey Drive



## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

I posted some of this on another thread.
http://www.poodleforum.com/23-gener...8450-fear-based-reactivity-2.html#post1792778

After all the fuss of sorting out the photo's and posting I thought to make a new thread.

How has your poodles prey drive "come out"?
How have you controlled or diverted it?

Please post here.

Eric:angel2:


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Poppy had the most exciting experience of her young life when my sister's neighbour failed to contain his chickens, despite her warning him that I was coming on a visit with my dogs. They squawked, fluttered, ran, and generally made her day - and he was out mending the run within the hour!

She has pounced on and killed a few things - a baby blackbird, a very sick young rabbit, and (together with Sophy and a terrier) a young stoat, but the only real problem was when I could see that running, squealing children were also triggering her prey drive. We worked through that by repeated reminders to Poppy to be polite, and to the children to sit down and let her come to them.

Sophy, on the other hand, seems to have worked out what is edible and what is not, and whether it is close enough for her to have any realistic chance of catching it - she has little interest in chasing inedible objects!


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## shadow mommy (Jan 6, 2012)

Shadow seems to have a high and sometimes quite annoying prey drive to not only animals but suspicious looking people. Any type of animal grabs his attention and he goes charging full speed towards it if he is loose unless I catch him with the don't you dare which makes him lean forward and growl without moving an inch. He is also triggered by people dressed in big baggy sweatshirts and jeans. I believe this stems from when our house was broken into because that's when it started and the people we believe had something to do with it dress that way.


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

Fletcher has a what I consider a high prey drive. He *loves* to chase his flirt pole (horse lunge whip with 6 foot pole & 6 foot whip/line, with a toy tied to the end of it). Really, anything that's moving is in danger of being pounced on.

I think he would be fantastic at lure coursing!

I have tried to gain some control by having him sit/stay and running the lure past him a few times, then releasing him to chase! We also practice drop it and leave it, but those are harder to obtain when he's keyed up.


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

Both my dogs have a high prey drive. Jazz has killed a couple of chipmunks and a young rabbit. Blue caught one chipmunk, but he didn't quite manage to kill it, so Jazz finished it off. They'll chase deer to make them run, but as soon as the deer scatter, the dogs are done with them. I can call them off deer with no problem. Small things that scurry are a different story. We had a bumper crop of acorns last fall, so we have a bumper crop of chipmunks and squirrels this spring. They drive the dogs crazy. Luckily the chipmunks go to the nearest hole, and the squirrels run up the nearest tree, so the dogs don't go far, but it's much harder to call them off. Usually it requires hands on the collar to divert them.


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## Oreo's Mommy (Dec 18, 2012)

Oreo is terrified of my neighbors chickens.


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

Oh, I should mention that Fletcher pretty much goes ballistic if any critters, feathered or furry, enter *his* yard. He's only encountered one young bunny inside the fence and it was dead from a mower wheel strike. But the goofy rabbits love it inside the fence so I imagine there will eventually be a live encounter.

The birds are also fair game, and he's managed to corner a robin and it lost some feathers, but I think it made it out alive; just scared.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Oreo's Mommy said:


> Oreo is terrified of my neighbors chickens.


Many years ago I had a mini who would round up the "chooks" and put them away in their run in the evening, where they would be protected from the foxes. Chooks can be stuborn and it was quite humerous how she overcame the stuborn sitting chooks. She would insert her nose under the chook and tip it forward. To avoid its beak being forced to the ground it would reluctantly move forward. The dog steered the chook in the neeeded direction. Later I successsfully herded sheep with her. She was quite good at it and would obey complex worded instructions. My sheep dog needed more guidence.
Eric.


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## Naira (Jan 9, 2015)

Naira doesn't really have much of a prey drive. She loves to chase and be chased (as long as the dog is slower than her) at the dog park. She doesn't really bite the other dogs in play. 


She doesn't chase squirrels or even seem phased by them. Birds either. The only thing she really goes after are toys I throw for her or balls. 


My mini had a super high prey drive...no small animal was safe.


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## AngelAviary (Aug 12, 2014)

Interesting thread Eric! My Stella is very, very birdy! She not only wants to chase and retrieve birds but she wants to flush them also! It is a bit of a problem since I raise and handfeed birds for my job. I expected the retrieving but not the strong drive to chase them. She is also very into chasing after squirrels. I dont let her even try but it can be tough. Outside (I dont have a fence yet) she is on a 30ft long line so I am able to stop her antics. Inside I just dont let her by the baby birds Im raising/handfeeding. Its just to much of a risk to their safety. I will be watching this thread with interest to see others experiences.


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

Our dogs run free once or twice a day in a secluded meadow that's several acres in size. It's got a creek on two sides, steep hills on three sides. The road from our house comes in at the narrow end. We're always with them, they've got good recall up there, they sniff and dig and run and chase each other, and they play in the creek, but they know they aren't supposed to cross it. Once in a great while, Jazz forgets herself and crosses over, but she always comes right back when I call her. 

This evening, both dogs ran ahead of us, got to the far end of the meadow, and Jazz was off like a shot across the creek and a few yards up the hill. She ignored my calls, cast back and forth with her nose to the ground a couple of times, picked up the trail, and went straight on up the hill and out of sight as hard as she could go. We didn't see or hear anything, have no idea what she was chasing. I called several more times, and she finally came back. She probably wasn't actually out of sight more than a minute, maybe two, but whatever she saw or smelled initially overrode two and a half years of training.


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## mamalion (Aug 8, 2014)

My first mini would chase deer from the yard, but quit when it was clear she wouldn't catch them. It's amazing how a whole herd will run from a 11 pound mini (geese,, too, if they have goslings or are broody). She could hang out off leash by the time she was 2. 

Now, on the other hand, Nellie will chase deer until she has lost them deep in the woods. I don't dare let her off leash. She would go feral in no time!


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## sparkyjoe (Oct 26, 2011)

I forgot how funny it is to watch Fletcher go into a point, then stalk in on his "prey" when we're playing with the flirt pole.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Buck runs free on my 4 fenced acres. He has a high prey drive, but a soft (cowardly?) heart. He will chase squirrels and if he is close enough to strike, he does a dramatic Tigger bounce and they have plenty of time to scurry up the tree. He once chased a low flying helicopter to the front fence. Some of my neighbors have peacocks and I am sure he will have a dramatic reaction to them if we ever encounter one on a walk. He loves to startle crows out of the yard.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I would rate Lily's prey drive as fairly high. She is a very enthusiastic ball retriever. It has worked to my advantage in obedience since I have never had less than enthusiastic retrieving in open or utility. Thankfully she has never chased the chickens and frankly is almost totally uninterested in them other than trying to scarf up their food (go figure). She and Peeves are both highly motivated to chase squirrels and cats. They actually work together to do so. Lily is fast and a good broken field runner who can out corner the prey. She channels them towards Peeves. They've never actually caught anything (which makes me happy too, don't want killing dogs and don't want to have to clean up the mess), but both squirrels and cats have had their tails barely escape Peeves.


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## kayfabulous6 (Nov 19, 2013)

Ruby has a high prey drive as well. She is an absolute maniac for playing fetch. Especially with her ball, she gets growling SUPER loud and pounces like a crazy girl. Outside: Anything that catches her eye, she's got locked in and stands real tall about to pounce at any moment. Very stalker-like. Because of this I only let her off-leash in fenced areas. Any bird, bunny or flying leaf she will want to chase. Another thing that gets her going is people on bicycles or roller skates. She will get locked in and nothing else exists! I don't mind the bird watching as much as the bit of reactivity she has when seeing people on bikes. When we are on walks I can't help but laugh sometimes.. This little 10 lb poodle about to take a guy out riding a bike! That is one thing I really want to work on with her.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Playing "fetch" with a ball has taken over Grace's prey drive. The ball is "everything" her concentration is totally on the ball. Birds are no longer important. She will snatch a ball out of the air up 6-8 feet and could easily do so with a low flying bird. In her yard she will chase off larger preditary birds and cats. I am sure the smaller birds feel safer with her around. Though she will chase them ocasionally, she never tries to catch them though I know she could. The ball is her prey now.
Eric:angel2:


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## SAS (Jun 16, 2013)

ericwd9 said:


> I posted some of this on another thread.
> http://www.poodleforum.com/23-gener...8450-fear-based-reactivity-2.html#post1792778
> 
> After all the fuss of sorting out the photo's and posting I thought to make a new thread.
> ...


In addition to chasing squirrels and other small animals, occasionally killing same, she unfortunately can become fixated on car/vehicle wheels. I wish i knew a way to interrupt that.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

*Cars as Prey*



SAS said:


> In addition to chasing squirrels and other small animals, occasionally killing same, she unfortunately can become fixated on car/vehicle wheels. I wish i knew a way to interrupt that.


See:


Dogs Chasing Cars. What can you do to stop this behavior?

Why Dogs Chase Cars - How to Stop Puppies Chasing Cars

How to stop your dog from wanting to chase cars on walks! | K9 Etiquette

Eric:angel2:


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Molly has prey drive that is limited to living creatures only! She is not a ball chaser outdoors at all.....indoors yeah! With live things (cats, lizards, birds) she takes off like a bat outta hell, then will slow down if they are not fleeing, and she will point and stalk! When it is underground (gopher sighted popping head out of hole) she will creep up on it and lie down and wait until it comes up again and WHAM! she nabs it, tosses it in the air, grabs it again, and shakes it til it's neck breaks......it is now ready to play with for a few minutes til I take it away from her (they carry parasite & worms!) She staked out one gopher hole in our yard for 3 days and actually caught it! LOL!




Pointing and Stalking Mode LOL!


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## Michelle (Nov 16, 2009)

Atticus will occasionally chase a bird or two in the yard, and maybe a squirrel but for the most part he couldn't care less. 

Yuki didn't really care as a puppy but as he got older he started developing an interest in birds/rabbits/squirrels/ducks/geese and he will completely block me out of his brain as I try to redirect his attention on our walks when I want him to pay attention. He loves to chase them in the backyard which I don't mind, but on our walks it is extremely annoying...I tell him leave it and most of the time he will contain himself but sometimes it is just too exciting and he leaps and flails around trying to chase them. He is getting better on our walks though. I'm really curious to see if he would go in the water to chase one...he hates water but he REALLY loves birds. I'm going to take him up to our lake house this summer, along with my other dogs, and see if they can convince him to get in the water. Or maybe his prey drive will be enough to draw him in.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Michelle said:


> Atticus will occasionally chase a bird or two in the yard, and maybe a squirrel but for the most part he couldn't care less.
> 
> Yuki didn't really care as a puppy but as he got older he started developing an interest in birds/rabbits/squirrels/ducks/geese and he will completely block me out of his brain as I try to redirect his attention on our walks when I want him to pay attention. He loves to chase them in the backyard which I don't mind, but on our walks it is extremely annoying...I tell him leave it and most of the time he will contain himself but sometimes it is just too exciting and he leaps and flails around trying to chase them. He is getting better on our walks though. I'm really curious to see if he would go in the water to chase one...he hates water but he REALLY loves birds. I'm going to take him up to our lake house this summer, along with my other dogs, and see if they can convince him to get in the water. Or maybe his prey drive will be enough to draw him in.


Last year I had a whippet brought to me with high prey drive. He was a terrorist of the first order. Birds were his game. He was quick (as whippets are) and would leap into the air and snatch a bird out of it!! First he had to get used to the house rules here with Grace as his mentor. He was intelligent and quick to learn. Next fit the training collar and treat 4 times a day. After 3 days he would come to have the collar fitted. Then his first walk on the beach (lots of birds) The collar is a three stage device first is "beep" "beep" I use that for recall. I also use my mouth to whistle twice for recall and the dogs name here "dog". I then treat and fuss over the dog "good boy" etc. The next stage is a buzzer/vibrator like the ones in cell phones. This is for NO!!! accompanied by my voice with NO!!! This is usually enough to curb the unwanted activity. The third stage is electric shock. (I know there will be those who will be horrified at this) To those people I say " this is a training aid for recalcitrant dogs, not a torture device" It should only be used by those who understand its use and then infrequently.
Well the whippet was really fixed on catching a swan for his supper. He was off like a shot from a gun and just as he neared the swan ZAP!!! He stopped and ran back a few yards. F. me these swans can bite at a distance??? He ran forward again, ZAP!!! This time he came back to Grace and myself with his tail down. New swan, Off like a shot again this time BUZZZ! BUZZ! he came back. The buzz was then enough. It felt a little like the zap and he would take note of it. He would never know the collar was the cause. To him the bird bites!!! from afar. Another week of training and NO more zaps just a buzzz or two. He went home and is a reformed character and can now go for walks with his handler without distress. He is a much happier dog for his remedial training.
Eric:damnmate::yield:


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## Michelle (Nov 16, 2009)

I'm not sure I would have good enough timing for an electric collar lol. With Atticus in my other hand I would be fumbling around and taking a few seconds to find the correct button and by the time I find it it would be too late or with bad timing. 

I ended up getting a "command collar" which is a milder (hard nylon/plastic) version of the metal prong collar. He walks great on a leash until he sees another dog or prey animal then he starts pulling and flipping around barking. So when he lunges forward to try to play with another passing dog, or take off after an animal, he gets a bite to his neck and he backs off (although still interested but not pulling). So he kind of corrects himself in this case lol.


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## West U (Jul 30, 2014)

Lola has a very high prey drive. She has killed a bird in the backyard and I believe she might kill our cat if she got a hold of her. We live in Houston (lots of lizards and cockroaches). She has gotten a few lizards and a cockroach outside yesterday, that made me almost sick. If she sees something outside, she can get so riled up I fear one day she will try to go through a window.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

It would be a good thing if you could redirect her strong prey drive and if possible curb her determination to kill. You might need professional help for this. But if successful it would give you some peace of mind. High prey drive is normal in standard poodles and some is found in all dogs. It can be trained out to a degree but requires constant vigilance and consistent reinforcement. Here is hoping Lola can overcome this and become less determined.
Eric


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## West U (Jul 30, 2014)

What do you think about a mild shock collar. I used one before on one of my male Beagles. He was such a knuckle head, I think he liked it. But she is very sensitive, so she may respond positively. Are you in Australia? We had a lovely show Beagle from Sydney.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

West U said:


> What do you think about a mild shock collar. I used one before on one of my male Beagles. He was such a knuckle head, I think he liked it. But she is very sensitive, so she may respond positively. Are you in Australia? We had a lovely show Beagle from Sydney.


Most all "shock collars" have a variable intensity of shock. I do not aprove of shock only collars. You only have the one option, to shock. A collar with a vibrator/buzzer has the option to buzz instead of shock. A lot of times this is all that is needed. If you do use the shock treatment once or twice is all that should be needed. After that the buzz is used for reinforcement. It is VERY important that the dog does NOT connect wearing the collar with being shocked or buzzed. It needs to be fitted with a treat a few times when unused so that the dog connects it with good things. I think only experienced trainers should use them. You must have fixed in your mind the remedial action you wish to train. There is the temptation among the inexperienced to use the collar indiscriminatly for basic training needs. this is counterproductive and can result in nervous responses from the dog Or a dog that is uncontolled without the colllar.

Eric


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## Rachel76 (Feb 3, 2014)

I have worked on curbing Hemi's prey drive since she was little. She cannot go after one of the falcons! Here in Germany hunters are allowed to shoot an off leash dog that is harassing wildlife. We often walk in woods and fields. She is off leash in the fields where I have a better view and is still on leash in the woods with the exception of SAR training. 
For SAR training she has to learn to stay on the scent of the missing person even if a deer or have runs right in front of her.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

Rachel76 said:


> I have worked on curbing Hemi's prey drive since she was little. She cannot go after one of the falcons! Here in Germany hunters are allowed to shoot an off leash dog that is harassing wildlife. We often walk in woods and fields. She is off leash in the fields where I have a better view and is still on leash in the woods with the exception of SAR training.
> For SAR training she has to learn to stay on the scent of the missing person even if a deer or have runs right in front of her.


Here in Australia off leash dogs among livstock are routinely shot.
Dogs harassing wildlife are impounded and fines are huge.
A well trained hunting dog will not "start" without orders.
Training is everything. A domestic pet can be trained to curb and focus its prey drive as needed. Start early and be vigilent and consistent.
Eric


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## West U (Jul 30, 2014)

ericwd9 said:


> Most all "shock collars" have a variable intensity of shock. I do not aprove of shock only collars. You only have the one option, to shock. A collar with a vibrator/buzzer has the option to buzz instead of shock. A lot of times this is all that is needed. If you do use the shock treatment once or twice is all that should be needed. After that the buzz is used for reinforcement. It is VERY important that the dog does NOT connect wearing the collar with being shocked or buzzed. It needs to be fitted with a treat a few times when unused so that the dog connects it with good things. I think only experienced trainers should use them. You must have fixed in your mind the remedial action you wish to train. There is the temptation among the inexperienced to use the collar indiscriminatly for basic training needs. this is counterproductive and can result in nervous responses from the dog Or a dog that is uncontolled without the colllar.
> 
> Eric


I hear you, Thanks for the advice. Lola has a strong personality, but still sensitive. My husband and sons let her get away with many things I don't and won't tolerate. I need to step up my efforts with basic "companion dog" training. She only weighs 38 lbs, but when she gets in "hunting" mode she is really hard to control. I do use a prong collar (properly fitted) when I walk her. I don't let my boys walk her with it as I don't want them jerking her. When we are walking and she gets riled up, I start a lot of about face, sits, u turns, etc. But off leash in the house or fenced back yard, often I cannot get her attention.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

West U said:


> I hear you, Thanks for the advice. Lola has a strong personality, but still sensitive. My husband and sons let her get away with many things I don't and won't tolerate. I need to step up my efforts with basic "companion dog" training. She only weighs 38 lbs, but when she gets in "hunting" mode she is really hard to control. I do use a prong collar (properly fitted) when I walk her. I don't let my boys walk her with it as I don't want them jerking her. When we are walking and she gets riled up, I start a lot of about face, sits, u turns, etc. But off leash in the house or fenced back yard, often I cannot get her attention.


Obtain a dozen or so REALLY high value treats. Raw Fresh red meat or Chicken, size of your pinky finger. Decide on an urgent recall and pay attention command. (here!! now??) When she is at rest issue the command. Have her sit and make eye contact then treat, along with a "good girl" in a high pitch crooning voice. Do this at irregular intervals through a day or two. Do not have the treat in your hand when you call her. Have it handy to pick up. Hide it from her before the act. Then when her attention is focused on prey, issue the command, treat and throw a ball for her. If she returns the ball treat again. This is an attempt to focus her prey drive on a ball. Later when she points or focuses on prey, tell he she is a bad girl in a deep growling voice. if she desists treat and reward. Keep it up and be consistent and she will come around to your way.
Eric.:angel2:


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