# Breeder questions



## WinnieJane (May 6, 2016)

I'm a novice, but as it happens I asked a highly regarded breeder about the issue of sires under two years of age. (I was concerned about some of the practices of another breeder I'd considered.) She said that she will occasionally breed a male under two years of age. However, she has bred spoos for decades and is also a veterinarian, so she likely has the expertise to decide when to make an exception. This was Mary at Avalon in Wisconsin -- she is spoken of highly in this forum.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

All of my puppies have come home at 7-8 weeks (Lily and Peeves at 7 weeks, Javelin at 8 weeks) with no problems.

I would be more concerned over a sire who couldn't possibly have all of the health background work done. I once had a conversation with Ian Dunbar during a seminar break and his view is that male dogs should not be bred until they are at least five and there has not only been background health screening but on the ground phenotype observation of the dog temperamentally as well as for physical health. I know many breeders will disagree with that view, but it is one expert's perspective to throw into the pot


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Brucejd said:


> Hey everyone! I am looking for a Standard Poodle to add to the family and I found a breeder who was easy to talk to and put me at ease. She was very knowledgable about the breed, has been breeding dogs for over thirty years, is an AKC breeder of Merit (I know this isn't everything) for yorkies. They however have only been breeding Standards for the past year or so but used to breed them in the past as well. I have two red flags that have gone off but I don't know if they are deal breakers, one is some of the puppies in the last litter were let go at 7 weeks, and the second is the sire in the current litter is under 2 years of age so proper OFA testing has not been done (other genetic testing has been done just not Hips and elbows). In talking to the breeder they have answered all my questions, asked appropriate ones back and we even talked about the breed in a very relaxed manner for a while. They invited me to come see the puppies of the next litter when they are old enough and meet the mother and see how the puppies are raised. I was thinking that maybe the two red flags were due to them starting up with a new breed of dog and could be growing pains. What do you guys think?


I don't like the practice of breeding young dogs for a variety of reasons but a few longtime breeders that I respect do it. It worries me a bit more, though, combined with letting puppies go at 7 weeks and being new to Standard Poodles. It's actually illegal in many states for puppies to go home before 8 weeks and most reputable breeders will not let them leave until 8-10 weeks.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Some breeders will use a male who is under two because they have no choice ie) He is in the country or their area for a short period of time. But honestly, other than that, what is the rush? Pre-lim hip xrays have been known to downgrade at two when a final is done.

Seven weeks of age is their first fear period. They should be with their pack until AT LEAST eight weeks old.


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## Brucejd (Jun 1, 2016)

Thanks for all the helpful advice! In a couple of weeks I'll be able to visit and get a better impression of the whole picture. I'm definitely still have a couple of alarm bells going off so hopefully I can figure out a bit more by visiting.


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Intuition is a huge factor here. If you're concerned about something, follow your gut. There have been many times I didn't and instead let 'common sense' and others (and myself, too) talk me into something that was ticking a little warning in the back of my head. Sometimes it works out just fine, many times it doesn't. 

When you go visit, don't let 'proper protocol' get in the way. Follow your gut. This is a relationship that will hopefully last and blossom over the lifetime of your pet. The breeder is every much a part of your lives as that pup will be. 

I tend to choose my pups now for the breeder, not the pups. The last three breeders I've dealt with are now life long friends. Good people are harder to find than great dogs. 

Best wishes!


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

California is one of the states in which it is illegal to sell a dog under 8 weeks of age.

Personally, I wouldn't consider a breeder who let pups go at less than 8 weeks old and didn't wait until the sire was at least 2 years old and fully tested for breeding.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Ian Dunbar has spoken frequently about how poorly designed and executed the study of fear periods was. It involved a very small number of puppies, put them into a totally alien clinical (read boring) setting and looked at whether the puppies stayed together or went over to the researchers (dressed in lab coats). Dr. Dunbar really really thinks we should get over the idea that there is an innately programmed set of fear periods, but instead adopt the understanding that puppies can have fearful experiences and that we can do many things to mitigate the long term effects of those experiences. We never treated Lily or Peeves with kid gloves believing they would be fearful just because they were 7 weeks old when they came home. They've never been afraid of much of anything (except that Peeves doesn't like loud noises like thunder).

I think that if we worried less over something that may or may not exist and instead focused on giving all puppies multitudinous socializing opportunities in their youth many dogs would be a lot better adjusted. I certainly would never say it was okay to send a pup home earlier than 7 weeks, but if the difference in bringing the pup home at 7 vs. 8 weeks is an extra week's worth of meeting many different people and seeing new places (under controlled safe circumstances) then I don't have a problem with bringing a 7 week old home. Not all breeders are like those who are active members here: showing, health testing, properly socializing their youngsters and the like with whom great things happen all throughout those 8 weeks. In a case where all the right things are lacking then send home to get what they are missing out on.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

zooeysmom said:


> California is one of the states in which it is illegal to sell a dog under 8 weeks of age.
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't consider a breeder who let pups go at less than 8 weeks old and didn't wait until the sire was at least 2 years old and fully tested for breeding.


Right. And..forget this whole fear period business..at 7 weeks puppies are simply too delicate to be going home! I cannot think of any breeders that I respect who send puppies home before 8-10 weeks. My puppies are still nursing at 7 weeks!


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