# Does anyone have experience with Sara Jane?



## Axolotl (Mar 22, 2021)

I'm in the SF Bay Area looking for a standard poodle and Sara Jane has some available, has anyone gotten a dog from her and does she seem like a good breeder? She's sent me photos and videos of the puppies with their mom at her house and got the full panel of genetic testing done through animal genetics. This is what the puppy looks like, does this seem like a good breeder to buy from? I've never gotten a dog before so have no clue what to look for besides genetic testing and making sure it's not a puppy mill lol. Thank you so much for any help!


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## Axolotl (Mar 22, 2021)

Update I'm going to go see him in person tomorrow morning (I'm fully vaccinated and will be making sure we only meet outside so it should be safe) what all should I look for while I'm there?


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## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

Axolotl said:


> I'm in the SF Bay Area looking for a standard poodle and Sara Jane has some available, has anyone gotten a dog from her and does she seem like a good breeder? She's sent me photos and videos of the puppies with their mom at her house and got the full panel of genetic testing done through animal genetics. This is what the puppy looks like, does this seem like a good breeder to buy from? I've never gotten a dog before so have no clue what to look for besides genetic testing and making sure it's not a puppy mill lol. Thank you so much for any help!
> View attachment 475700


the puppy kind of looks like a mix like a labradoodle and it’s face isn’t shaved so it’s difficult to see his features. Also, Im pet sure that eye color isn’t a part of the breed standard. I personally think you could do better in the Northern California area. When I was originally looking for a larger dog, I ran into a few good breeders in NoCal. The testing you’ll want to see is mostly from OFA, saliva tests are a nice extra but don’t tell you about the health of the parent’s conformation.


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## Axolotl (Mar 22, 2021)

Phaz23 said:


> the puppy kind of looks like a mix like a labradoodle and it’s face isn’t shaved so it’s difficult to see his features. Also, Im pet sure that eye color isn’t a part of the breed standard. I personally think you could do better in the Northern California area. When I was originally looking for a larger dog, I ran into a few good breeders in NoCal. The testing you’ll want to see is mostly from OFA, saliva tests are a nice extra but don’t tell you about the health of the parent’s conformation.


Thank you so much! Do you have any recommendations for finding breeders that might have puppies soon? Looking to get one sooner rather than later so I can introduce it to my hawk while he is still young and get most of the training done before I'm taking the hawk out again in the fall.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Hi,

Have you had any luck with the breeders recommended in your other thread about hunting lines? Unfortunately PF doesn't have any inside info on which breeders might be having litters soon. We only learn if a member happens to mention it in conducting their own search.

You'd mentioned that you've never had a dog before. Have you had any interaction with poodles? I love my poodles beyond words but I wouldn't call poodles "easy" as a rule, especially if you've never raised or lived with a dog before. Look into visiting some events and see if they're really what you're hoping for in a dog. 

There was another member recently asking about Sara Jane starting at this post: Looking for a reputable breeder San Diego area
What I could find online about the breeder didn't recommend them to me. If I were looking for myself, I would pass. The price is very high, I'm not confident in her breeding program and testing seems incomplete. Genetic testing is only part of the ideal package of health testing. Phenotype testing of hips, patellas, heart, eyes, depending on breed and variety tell the rest of the breeding parents health status. With poodles, especially standards, the breeders investing in the poodles for diversity as well as health are looking to the future of the entire breed. 

Here's the Search results on this breeder
(10) Search results for query: sara+jane | Poodle Forum

Here's my personal criteria, short and long version, and some tips.

Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder. The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much to back it if the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

Read thru any contracts that may be listed. If they rule out coverage for conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?

Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times and with pandemic puppy seekers, that wait is stretched well into 2021-2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs rather than keep a website updated.

When you start making contacts, let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.
Color preferences are understandable but keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies. Many poodle colors change thru their lives.
Temperament is lifelong trait.

Be prepared to spend in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

Be prepared to travel outside your preferred area.

As a very general rule, websites to be leery of are those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience".


An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. An online search for "Poodle Club of *___* (your city or state)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.


As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask my criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come.

Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is _well bred._


Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time 

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards and are physically capable by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.


The Breeder List is not a complete list so be sure to look at the Multi listings too. Every name on the list has been recommended by a PF member or several, or I have found them by searching thru websites for breeders that the recommended breeder also recommends. Then I went to every website and/or the OFA site and/or a general internet search to verify any health testing done. I only did this initially, before adding them to the list. It's up to the seeker to verify the breeders current standing.

Definitely use the Poodle Clubs for breeder referral too.


The longer breeder criteria list

Breeding Program
! to maintain, improve, strengthen the breed
by breeding to standard, for health and genetic diversity,
and will prove their dogs meet these standards by showing or competing in other activities or by breeding from titled parents.
It's not the title, but what it shows
! focus is on quality, never quantity
! they do not cross breed
! they limit breeding to one to two breeds
! they limit breeding to only a few litters per year *

Breeding Parents
! registry information available
AKC Registry Lookup
Dog Search
! not too old or young for breeding
! not overbred
see Asking questions from a breeder
and Frequency of Breeding a Bitch
! genetic health testing done appropriate to breed and variety
! other health testing by exam such as annual eye, hips, patellas
! results of testing on own website, OFA site or testing lab
see Health Related Publications - Versatility In Poodles, Inc.
and OFA Lookup Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO

Living Conditions
! in home with family
! breeder allows, even encourages home visits

Puppies
! routine and urgent vet care, immunizations, dewormings
! socialization
! first groomings
! registry papers
! they will not require spay/neuter before physical maturity
! health "guarantee" generally favors the breeder, not the buyer.
health guarantee is no replacement for health testing of dam and sire.
does the contract/guarantee/warranty rule out covering conditions the parents should have been tested for
do you fully understand the terms of any contract/guarantee/warranty and can you live with them
beginning housetraining is a bonus
temperament testing is helpful

Advertising
! individual website to detail history of breeder, goals for their program
! information on dams, sires, puppies
! no trend pricing for color, gender or size,
! no marketing gimmick terms like "teacup" "royal"

! Anything not found on a public online site should be provided by breeder before buying.

* Many people prefer small scale breeders because they feel the puppies will have better socialization and it's very unlikely to be a puppy mill-like operation.
This doesn't mean that larger scale breeders can't do things right.
The breeder of record may not be hands on with every pup or poodle on the place but they should make sure that all the quality of life and attention are paid to all their dogs.

If a breeder wants me to believe that they believe in their dogs, they won't stop the investment when it comes time to find the new families. If they want to cut costs by using free advertising sites like craigslist or listing on retail marketplaces like puppyspot or puppyfind, or other classified ad sites such as newspapers, I wonder what else they've cut costs on.

You'll find the health testing info in the Breeder List








🐩 Breeders Listed by Location 🐩 Plus Additional Resources 🐩


GEOGRAPHICAL BREEDERS LIST AND ADDITIONAL RESOURCES PLEASE READ THIS FIRST What this list is NOT: This list is not an endorsement of any breeder by Poodle Forum This list is not a list to just go buy from without doing more investigation This list is not comprehensive What this list IS: This...




www.poodleforum.com


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Hi,

Have you had any luck with the breeders recommended in your other thread about hunting lines? Unfortunately PF doesn't have any inside info on which breeders might be having litters soon. We only learn if a member happens to mention it in conducting their own search.

There was another member recently asking about Sara Jane starting at this post Looking for a reputable breeder San Diego area
What I could find online about the breeder didn't recommend them to me. If I were looking for myself, I would pass. The price is very high, I'm not confident in her breeding program and testing seems incomplete. Genetic testing is only part of the ideal package of health testing.

Here's the Search results on this breeder
(10) Search results for query: sara+jane | Poodle Forum

Here's my personal criteria, short and long version, and some tips.

Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder. The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much to back it if the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

Read thru any contracts that may be listed. If they rule out coverage for conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?

Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times and with pandemic puppy seekers, that wait is stretched well into 2021-2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs rather than keep a website updated.

When you start making contacts, let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.
Color preferences are understandable but keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies. Many poodle colors change thru their lives.
Temperament is lifelong trait.

Be prepared to spend in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

Be prepared to travel outside your preferred area.

As a very general rule, websites to be leery of are those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience".


An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. An online search for "Poodle Club of *___* (your city or state)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.


As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask my criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come.

Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is _well bred._


Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time 

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards and are physically capable by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.


The Breeder List is not a complete list so be sure to look at the Multi listings too. Every name on the list has been recommended by a PF member or several, or I have found them by searching thru websites for breeders that the recommended breeder also recommends. Then I went to every website and/or the OFA site and/or a general internet search to verify any health testing done. I only did this initially, before adding them to the list. It's up to the seeker to verify the breeders current standing.

Definitely use the Poodle Clubs for breeder referral too.


The longer breeder criteria list

Breeding Program
! to maintain, improve, strengthen the breed
by breeding to standard, for health and genetic diversity,
and will prove their dogs meet these standards by showing or competing in other activities or by breeding from titled parents.
It's not the title, but what it shows
! focus is on quality, never quantity
! they do not cross breed
! they limit breeding to one to two breeds
! they limit breeding to only a few litters per year *

Breeding Parents
! registry information available
AKC Registry Lookup
Dog Search
! not too old or young for breeding
! not overbred
see Asking questions from a breeder
and Frequency of Breeding a Bitch
! genetic health testing done appropriate to breed and variety
! other health testing by exam such as annual eye, hips, patellas
! results of testing on own website, OFA site or testing lab
see Health Related Publications - Versatility In Poodles, Inc.
and OFA Lookup Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO

Living Conditions
! in home with family
! breeder allows, even encourages home visits

Puppies
! routine and urgent vet care, immunizations, dewormings
! socialization
! first groomings
! registry papers
! they will not require spay/neuter before physical maturity
! health "guarantee" generally favors the breeder, not the buyer.
health guarantee is no replacement for health testing of dam and sire.
does the contract/guarantee/warranty rule out covering conditions the parents should have been tested for
do you fully understand the terms of any contract/guarantee/warranty and can you live with them
beginning housetraining is a bonus
temperament testing is helpful

Advertising
! individual website to detail history of breeder, goals for their program
! information on dams, sires, puppies
! no trend pricing for color, gender or size,
! no marketing gimmick terms like "teacup" "royal"


! Anything not found on a public online site should be provided by breeder before buying.

* Many people prefer small scale breeders because they feel the puppies will have better socialization and it's very unlikely to be a puppy mill-like operation.
This doesn't mean that larger scale breeders can't do things right.
The breeder of record may not be hands on with every pup or poodle on the place but they should make sure that all the quality of life and attention are paid to all their dogs.

If a breeder wants me to believe that they believe in their dogs, they won't stop the investment when it comes time to find the new families. If they want to cut costs by using free advertising sites like craigslist or listing on retail marketplaces like puppyspot or puppyfind, or other classified ad sites such as newspapers, I wonder what else they've cut costs on.


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## Axolotl (Mar 22, 2021)

Oh my gosh I am so sorry I thought I sent this message and was just checking back and saw that I didn't! Thank you so much for the help! Unfortunately I didn't have any luck on any of those breeders.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

Keep us updated and let us know what happens. There's some additional suggestions for sources to find the right kind of breeder for you here.

Find A Poodle - Versatility In Poodles, Inc. : Versatility In Poodles, Inc. (vipoodle.org) 

Versatile Poodles - Versatility In Poodles, Inc. : Versatility In Poodles, Inc. (vipoodle.org)


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

Phaz23 said:


> the puppy kind of looks like a mix like a labradoodle and it’s face isn’t shaved so it’s difficult to see his features. Also, Im pet sure that eye color isn’t a part of the breed standard. I personally think you could do better in the Northern California area. When I was originally looking for a larger dog, I ran into a few good breeders in NoCal. The testing you’ll want to see is mostly from OFA, saliva tests are a nice extra but don’t tell you about the health of the parent’s conformation.


Did you get the dog? We just had a horrible experience with Sara Jane. On Saturday, we gave her a $1200 deposit for a dog that she was selling for $5800...After seeing the dog, who was adorable, there were many questionable facts that did not add up. SJ would not answer our questions about the discrepancy in facts. So I asked on our Nextdoor website and found out she has a very bad reputation, has been sued MANY times, and has sold dogs claiming they were AKC but the dogs were later DNA tested and were not pure bred dogs. We will have to sue her for our deposit---and I will do it to try to stop her from swindling other people.


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## Phaz23 (May 31, 2020)

Los Gatoan said:


> Did you get the dog? We just had a horrible experience with Sara Jane. On Saturday, we gave her a $1200 deposit for a dog that she was selling for $5800...After seeing the dog, who was adorable, there were many questionable facts that did not add up. SJ would not answer our questions about the discrepancy in facts. So I asked on our Nextdoor website and found out she has a very bad reputation, has been sued MANY times, and has sold dogs claiming they were AKC but the dogs were later DNA tested and were not pure bred dogs. We will have to sue her for our deposit---and I will do it to try to stop her from swindling other people.


oh it was actually @Axolotl that was looking at the dog, my pup is from elsewhere


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

Axolotl said:


> I'm in the SF Bay Area looking for a standard poodle and Sara Jane has some available, has anyone gotten a dog from her and does she seem like a good breeder? She's sent me photos and videos of the puppies with their mom at her house and got the full panel of genetic testing done through animal genetics. This is what the puppy looks like, does this seem like a good breeder to buy from? I've never gotten a dog before so have no clue what to look for besides genetic testing and making sure it's not a puppy mill lol. Thank you so much for any help!
> View attachment 475700


We had a bad experience with this breeder (and now I know others in Los Gatos who have had similar experiences, --Send me a PM and I will be glad to tell you about it


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## cherylg (Jun 11, 2021)

Los Gatoan said:


> We had a bad experience with this breeder (and now I know others in Los Gatos who have had similar experiences, --Send me a PM and I will be glad to tell you about it


Pls expand. Communicating w/her for a puppy. We are looking for a hhealthy pet not a show dog. thx what were the problems? thx, cherylg santa cruz(formerly of LG)


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

cherylg said:


> We are looking for a healthy pet not a show dog.


Until Los Gatoan or some others who've had personal experiences drop by, I'll add some general tips here. There are more posted above.

We often hear from folks that they just want a pet. What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that the kind of quality, conscientious breeders I prefer to support are _always_ breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions, but are flawless to us .

It's not unusual to think that there are possibly thousands of breeders to choose from. For quality, conscientious breeders, that number is more likely only in the hundreds in the US. A bottom line difference is between those who're breeding primarily for profit and those who're breeding because they feel not only love for poodles but an obligation to the entire breed.

About reviews, a happy owner doesn't necessarily mean an informed owner. It's as likely they've just been lucky, so far. Review any negative comments carefully, if they're allowed to appear.

Getting a puppy from a quality, conscientious breeder is something like insurance. Their investment in the health, welfare, and soundness of all the dogs in their care including the puppies they offer to new homes is part of the reason you're not likely to find a less than $2000 USD puppy from them.

The saying is "pay the breeder or pay the vet". Price alone isn't the only thing to separate quality breeders from those less than. We've seen members quote as high and even much higher pricing for pups from parents not health tested, not proven to meet breed standards, sold as purebred when only a DNA test could determine that since they may be sold without registration papers.

There may be more to her than can be found online but what I have found doesn't inspire me to give her $4800 for a poodle.

First thought is $5000 !?! - off my list That might be valid or even low for a trained service dog, but not a puppy.

Second










Third Hmmmm?? Toy poodle as sire for toy pups above and standard pups below











*Breeder of toy or mini reds + Puppy Culture?*
Do you know of any apricot or red toy or mini poodle breeders who raise with Puppy Culture techniques? Near California preferred. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.


*Feedback on Sara Jane?*
Hi, I am interested in some of the puppies posted to AKC by Sara Jane. Sara Jane - Puppies For Sale Does any of you have feedback? I appreciate your info!!!


(10) Search results for query: sara+jane | Poodle Forum


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

cherylg said:


> Pls expand. Communicating w/her for a puppy. We are looking for a hhealthy pet not a show dog. thx what were the problems? thx, cherylg santa cruz(formerly of LG)





cherylg said:


> Pls expand. Communicating w/her for a puppy. We are looking for a hhealthy pet not a show dog. thx what were the problems? thx, cherylg santa cruz(formerly of LG)


Cheryl- We met with Sara Jane b/c she had advertised in the AKC Marketplace that she had toy poodles. The parents and number and gender of the pups were listed in the add. I wrote to her about our desire to get a toy poodle. We arranged a meeting and saw her puppies. Like all puppies, they were adorable. We were with Sara Jane for 1.5 hours and saw the other pups in the litter. I asked how large these dogs would get b/c they seemed to be large for 9 wk old toy poodles (given the AKC standard). SJ said they might get 50% larger than they currently were. (I remember thinking to myself that didn't sound right. I did not think pups would only grow that little in the next 10 months.) The whole experience went very fast and we were very nervous, but we gave SJ $1200 deposit for a puppy priced at $5800. During the visit, we saw a male adult dog named Miles that she verbally stated to be the father of this litter. (He was the the same sire listed in the AKC ad.) Miles was clearly a miniature poodle.

When we got home, we started to reflect back on what SJ said and then we looked up facts. According to the AKC, a toy poodle is 10 in tall/ and 4-6 lbs. We knew the puppies we saw (including the one we had chosen to buy) weighed at least 6 lbs. or more and they were only 9 weeks old. And if Miles was the father, and Miles is a miniature, that would make sense that these pups were as large as they were. So I wrote to SJ and asked for clarification, stating that we really wanted a toy poodle and we did not want a dog that exceeded the size of our house and yard. No response from her! Nothing! 

There were numerous other oddities in dealing with this woman:
1) Immediately after contacting Sara, she asked for my picture for her contact list. (No, I did not send a picture) 
2) Then she sent me a "test" email to see if my email was real??
3) Sara never gave us her last name--it was no where--not even written on the contract. (Think about it, why would someone withhold his/her last name? Answer: So the person cannot be easily searched.)
4) When I signed the contract to buy the dog, she never signed it.
5) Sara also said she lived in Los Gatos--But in fact, she lived in Campbell. 
(Any one of these would not have been a reason for concern, but put together with what we heard and saw--plus, as much as I wanted this dog, I just had a bad feeling in my gut.)

I started to do some online investigation. I began to do a basic online search. I posted an inquiry on our local Nextdoor website. One neighbor who knew of Sara Jane suggested that I request only private messages b/c "of what happened before." I re-wrote my post and I started to get personal messages almost immediately. NONE OF THEM WERE FAVORABLE. I heard numerous stories about people she had defrauded and who had taken her to small claims court. One woman told me that they had their dog DNA tested when it grew up and was clearly not a pure bred poodle. Turns out the dog was poodle- Australian shepherd mix. Those people filed paperwork to take Sara to small claims, but she refunded a portion of their $. There are many small claims court cases brought by other people. One person told me that she knew SJ to be a dog walker/ pet sitter--not a knowledgeable breeder. There were numerous horrible, heartbreaking stories.

In the meantime, the morning AFTER we placed the deposit on the puppy and signed the contract, I wrote an email cancelling the sale. I stated that 'due to conflicting information, I had lost confidence in SJ as a breeder.' I also hand-delivered the same letter to her house and sent another copy 'Return receipt requested." Later that night SJ responded to my 1st email--the where I asked for clarification --BUT SHE CUT AND PASTED EMAILS SO IT APPEARED AS IF I HAD NEVER WRITTEN TO CANCEL THE SALE. She told me a convoluted story about the ad in AKC Marketplace was not for "these puppies," it was for another litter. (That is not what the date on the ad indicated.) She claimed that the mother and father of the puppy I chose were each 7 lbs. (But while we were looking at the pups, she told us that Miles --the miniature male-- was the father.)

To comply with small claims court, I sent a formal demand letter requesting my $1200 refunded. I sent the letter two different ways. Sara sent a check for $1200. I am still waiting to be sure it clears the bank.

Cheryl, my advice to you is the same that many people gave to me--RUN, DON'T WALK--AND GO AS FAST AS YOU CAN. I was told that her black standard poodle has attacked other dogs at the park. (And personally, when I walked out the gate alone, I was afraid of the dog in the way it comported itself. I would not want a dog bred from that animal.)

Finally Cheryl, I don't know you, (and to be honest, I don't even know if this is a legitimate inquiry) but I took the time to relate this horrendous experience in the hope that you will be spared the emotionally heartbreak that Sara inflicted on my husband, myself and many other people in this area.


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> Until Los Gatoan or some others who've had personal experiences drop by, I'll add some general tips here. There are more posted above.
> 
> We often hear from folks that they just want a pet. What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that the kind of quality, conscientious breeders I prefer to support are _always_ breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions, but are flawless to us .
> 
> ...


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## cherylg (Jun 11, 2021)

Los Gatoan said:


> Cheryl- We met with Sara Jane b/c she had advertised in the AKC Marketplace that she had toy poodles. The parents and number and gender of the pups were listed in the add. I wrote to her about our desire to get a toy poodle. We arranged a meeting and saw her puppies. Like all puppies, they were adorable. We were with Sara Jane for 1.5 hours and saw the other pups in the litter. I asked how large these dogs would get b/c they seemed to be large for 9 wk old toy poodles (given the AKC standard). SJ said they might get 50% larger than they currently were. (I remember thinking to myself that didn't sound right. I did not think pups would only grow that little in the next 10 months.) The whole experience went very fast and we were very nervous, but we gave SJ $1200 deposit for a puppy priced at $5800. During the visit, we saw a male adult dog named Miles that she verbally stated to be the father of this litter. (He was the the same sire listed in the AKC ad.) Miles was clearly a miniature poodle.
> 
> When we got home, we started to reflect back on what SJ said and then we looked up facts. According to the AKC, a toy poodle is 10 in tall/ and 4-6 lbs. We knew the puppies we saw (including the one we had chosen to buy) weighed at least 6 lbs. or more and they were only 9 weeks old. And if Miles was the father, and Miles is a miniature, that would make sense that these pups were as large as they were. So I wrote to SJ and asked for clarification, stating that we really wanted a toy poodle and we did not want a dog that exceeded the size of our house and yard. No response from her! Nothing!
> 
> ...


wow-i am so grateful that you took the time to explain the problems. I know people have conflicts and reviews are not always reliable but with your sincere detailed note I will find another "breeder"- again, thanks and hope you have found the perfect furbaby


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## cherylg (Jun 11, 2021)

Thank you. I will find another "breeder" Your points are valid and helpful


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

PF has a Breeder List resource 








🐩 Breeders Listed by Location 🐩 Plus Additional Resources 🐩


GEOGRAPHICAL BREEDERS LIST AND ADDITIONAL RESOURCES PLEASE READ THIS FIRST What this list is NOT: This list is not an endorsement of any breeder by Poodle Forum This list is not a list to just go buy from without doing more investigation This list is not comprehensive What this list IS: This...




www.poodleforum.com





and an excellent outside source is your local, regional official Poodle Club of (your city/region) or the national Poodle Club of America PCA National Breeder Referral - The Poodle Club of America

The referral folks often have information about breeders with avail pups, older pups, or adults, or with upcoming litters.


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## Los Gatoan (Jun 1, 2021)

cherylg said:


> wow-i am so grateful that you took the time to explain the problems. I know people have conflicts and reviews are not always reliable but with your sincere detailed note I will find another "breeder"- again, thanks and hope you have found the perfect furbaby


Cheryl - Just remember to throughly check out any breeder. BTW - The AKC Marketplace is no assurance of a reputable breeder. Get this- The AKC allows breeders to operate on the 'honor system' (that's right, like the Girl Scouts). So a breeder is able to falsify pedigree papers with impunity...Or as Rose n Poos pointed out, they can list falsified advertisements.

I would only trust people with no potential conflict of interest. (A friend, a trusted vet, someone who knows the breed but is not selling dogs.) We found our new little baby at a breeder (Gail Zamora in Grass Valley, CA ). She was recommended on this Forum by Babyscout and a few others.


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