# gag, matadoodles



## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

Okay, they're also called "sheepadoodles" and "puli-poos". Anyone want a dog guaranteed to need a shavedown? Only $800! Puli Poos from ACC Ranch


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Okay wtf why is the dads pic a picture of a puppy..


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## Marian (Oct 20, 2009)

That puppy daddy is also on the "bich-poo" page as well. He seems to be getting lots of action!

Why do people do this? What's wrong with just getting a Puli, or a Poodle, or a Bichon or a Schauzer? Why do they have to all be mixed together? I don't get it.


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

dispelling the puppy mill term

Haha, that's rich! Has anyone ever heard of this facility? She goes on to explain how if her house isn't clean enough for prospective buyers they should grab a broom, and if dogs look matted, it's because they don't believe in grooming in winter (on the Ranch Rules page).

This site makes me sick. You can't tell me that OES she's using for stud on her standard sheepadoodle page doesn't have hip problems.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

OHHH the dispelling the puppy mill link...wtf is that woman thinking 

Marian, I want to know the same thing...and why not take the time to look up a responsible breeder? it's so disheartening to me =\


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## Feathersprings (Jul 15, 2010)

It is sad..way too many puppies and the crosses!!! But I can see why there are people that would read the stuff on their site and think it is great! Cute puppies, Home raised with people there all the time to socialize them, clean up after them, etc. Picky about the new owners ( which means the new owner is a great person, and we all like to feel like that LOL) They care about the health of the puppies ( medical booties, no contact with young puppies, paying vet bills for sick puppies) It all sounds great to a novice!!! You go to a "good" breeder and you may get to see 1-2 puppies( that might be appropriate for their family) You get questioned like you are adopting a child! You are chastised for having an unaltered pet in the home etc. It is hard for them to see that the second option is the best one unless they are educated about theses things. I wish they all had to "attend" a breed forum before getting a puppy  You all could teach them so much! My neighbor has a Lhasa???X Designer dog that she paid a lot for.. it is the most horrible dog I have ever met!!! Bites, terrified of everything, not cute on top of that( and I think Lhasas are cute) but you could never convince the woman that she isnt a very special "breed ". It was so easy in my grooming shop to help educate pet owners but you just cant reach enough of them.


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

I agree about attending a breed forum before getting a puppy. I've only been here for a month (lurking before I registered) and I've learned sooo much about the breed. I've seen some heartbreaking, no-brainer stuff (pinky's threads) and some truly eye opening reviews on breeder sites and practices. If you dig for the info, instead of the cutest photo, you can find the best advice available.


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

Did I really just read a defense of puppy mills? Probably now have to go wash my eyes out with soap, or something. And FunkyPuppy is right: anyone who has ever had to comb matts out of a poodle is going to take one look at those puppies and run the other way. Everyone else will coo and say, "Oh look how _cute_."


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

Yuck. I don't see how anyone can look at the drooly mess those pups were born from and think "how cute!"

I've seen cute pulis, that is not one.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

that bull**** they wrote is all sorts of ****ed up. and i know what i just wrote will be edited to censor out the bad words but holy crapoly. they make me sick.


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## jester's mom (Nov 25, 2008)

This makes me SICK! Sure, make excuses for everything... dirty house (if you don't like it, clean it for me!! what the bloody hell!!!); dirty dogs (yeah, dogs need unkempt coats to stay warm!! Who on here doesn't know that a clean, brushed coat keeps a dog warmer!!); "puppy mill" term (I am licensed by the state so I am not one of that made up bad name!!); wow, she has it all covered, doesn't she!! And ....
"My goal in life is to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am..." YEAH, RIGHT... all dogs want you to keep so many they can't have individual attention, all dogs want to be kept in a pen or kennel 24/7 so you can breed them for money! It's more like "My goal in life is to make money on my dogs"!!! CRAP

What a total shame for those dogs. And, her links to the dog's pedigrees...lol..don't go to any pedigree. She is a puppy mill person and I would put it in big letters across from her house if I could!!!

And wish people would realize, poodle X anything does NOT make the progeny and "better dog"!!!! No matter if the kennel and dogs are well kept or not. Find the breed that you like and GET THAT! If you like the poodle, buy a poodle!


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_OK....I am now on overload!! I guess I'm just speechless. I can't add any more to everything that has already been said. Juts totally disgusted! Pardon me while I go have a cry.
_


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

What really Suxs is that if you go to "Poodle Breeders" Standard Poodles, Miniature Poodles, Toy Poodles Breeders Directory! you get a VERY nice site for poodle breeders. 

and Perfect Puppies from ACC Ranch gets you the ACC doodlemill


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## twenjen70 (Jun 9, 2010)

I have never understood people like this. I noticed they have a "survey" on their available puppy page: Available from ACC Ranch

Its almost at the bottom just below the pictures that go around in a circle...they are asking for feedback about their dogs. Its in small letters "Take Our Survey, Click Here!"


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## CelticKitti (Jul 1, 2010)

This makes me sad and angry. I can't get over her dispelling the Mill page.

Ok Big Giant pet peve of mine... And I know it's the least of the things wrong with this but, NO do is allergy free! Another marketing ploy that drives me nuts!


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

What's weird is she says "allergy free" on her doo pages, then on other pages says no dog is completely allergy free. I think she's a hoarder with a screw loose.

I filled out a survey. GRIN!


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## myla (Feb 12, 2011)

*Greetings All!*

Food for Thought: MONTREAL — An Ontario woman has been fined $14,000 after being found guilty of libelling a commercial dog breeder online.

Ontario Superior Court Judge Michael Galligan heard last week that Lorie Gordon of Brockville, Ont., made the comments about the poor health of her black Labrador retrievers on an Internet pet forum.

The judge ordered Gordon to pay $10,000 in damages and $4,000 in court costs to James, Charlene and Nicole Labombard, the owners of the Shawville, Que.-based Paws R Us Kennel.


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

myla said:


> Food for Thought: MONTREAL — An Ontario woman has been fined $14,000 after being found guilty of libelling a commercial dog breeder online.
> 
> Ontario Superior Court Judge Michael Galligan heard last week that Lorie Gordon of Brockville, Ont., made the comments about the poor health of her black Labrador retrievers on an Internet pet forum.
> 
> The judge ordered Gordon to pay $10,000 in damages and $4,000 in court costs to James, Charlene and Nicole Labombard, the owners of the Shawville, Que.-based Paws R Us Kennel.


If this were a major concern, the hundreds of breeder site reviews wouldn't be allowed by admins. 

I say, bring it.


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## myla (Feb 12, 2011)

OK, so help me understand...do you simply not like cross breeds? do you not like breeders? Just trying to understand where you are all coming from


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

myla said:


> Food for Thought: MONTREAL — An Ontario woman has been fined $14,000 after being found guilty of libelling a commercial dog breeder online.
> 
> Ontario Superior Court Judge Michael Galligan heard last week that Lorie Gordon of Brockville, Ont., made the comments about the poor health of her black Labrador retrievers on an Internet pet forum.
> 
> The judge ordered Gordon to pay $10,000 in damages and $4,000 in court costs to James, Charlene and Nicole Labombard, the owners of the Shawville, Que.-based Paws R Us Kennel.


And, if you post it online, it's fair game. If you want to sue a single mother for posting a link to your site, filled with your prideful statements regarding the mutts you're breeding, go for it. Good luck collecting your 10 grand.


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

I love excellent breeders, deeply involved in improving a gorgeous breed, and proudly displaying their beautiful dogs in shows, in competitions, etc. Breeders who do extensive testing, and breed occasionally, maybe once or twice a year, never to satisfy customers demanding the Next Hawt Designer Breed. 

The breeders on this forum are extremely intelligent, extremely dedicated, and phenomenally in love with their breed. They would stop at nothing to improve poodles as a breed. Mixing a poodle to anything else leaves a bad taste in the mouths of most poodle owners, breeders, and fanciers on this forum. Do a search for doodles, educate yourself. You claim to love your kennel of dogs--step into the shoes of those breeding not to "fill a need" but to Improve a Breed.


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## myla (Feb 12, 2011)

*Thanks*

OK, I totally get that, and respect it. I feel as though if I explain why I do what I do it willl only sound deffensive. I could never show dogs, tried it in the horse and alpaca world, and it's simply not a world that I care for. That being said, what I don't understand is why this group feels the need to slam so many aspects of what I do. I know one post mentioned how I don't care for my dogs.....each of my dogs has a name, knows their names, gets walked...I LOVE what I do, and I DO love each of my dogs....just as you do. Mine is a business from the heart....and, as you probably know, breeding is not for the faint at heart, and, as my husband puts it, 'we may be non profit, but it's not by choice'. 

I only wish we could agree to disagree rather than me finding all these nasty things people are saying about me by accident. This is a free country, so I realize you have the right to slam me however you see fit. I would just appreciate a tad of respect for the work, money, and love I put into my dogs. 

I joined this group to find out more about how other people handle families coming to their homes to visit puppies, ......and, obviously was shocked to read what I read.

So, I will move on and find what need to find..IF anyone reading this has ever expeirenced what we did in January and is willing to share how they moved on I would be grateful. Again, thank you all for this awakening! 

Make it a great day!


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

myla said:


> OK, so help me understand...do you simply not like cross breeds? do you not like breeders? Just trying to understand where you are all coming from


i have a mix breed dog. she's a mutt. i love her. my son picked her up in her travels ... she's a great dog. she's a mutt who i treat with as much love and respect as my registered full blooded dogs and as my full blooded rescue dog who came from a puppy mill.

i don't like the oodles and "designer" dogs that puppy mills promote. i can't stand it. i think it's wrong. selling mutts for exhorbitant pricing when there are shelters where dogs are being euthanized daily. if one wants a mutt go there. save a life. 

puppy mills ... those who don't breed for standard, do testing and who mix breeds are wrong wrong wrong.

i do like ethical breeders. i do like the breeders that work hard to improve a breed. i do like them. there are many on this forum. there are many who are not. my next dog will come from one of them. not a byb, not a mill. 

and i damn skippy won't be getting an oodle. in fact, i spend a lot of time educating about the wrongness of these oodles and why.


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## myla (Feb 12, 2011)

Thanks for that info, I respect your opinions......please remember, I am NOT a substandard breeder.....I DO breed for health, temperament and beauty....in that order. 

Again, thanks for your view point!


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## tintlet (Nov 24, 2009)

Myla,
dealing with people that come to your home..

Buyers like to see where and how the puppies are raised. they see the relationship of you and the dogs. Make sure all dog runs have poop picked up. even one pile looks bad

We let the buyer see the mom and sire (if he live here. most don't). then bring out the puppies they are interested in. Generally I know the buyers likes and dislike long before they arrive. Don't show them the puppies you are keeping or are already sold, as they will want "that" one...lol everything should be clean, doesn't need to be spotless. Mom and pups freshly bathed and groomed. If the buyer has allergies, use scent free shampoos

have plenty of toys for pups, plus fresh water out. Buyers DO notice the little things

If its a nice day, we visit outside on the patio areas. if cold, then in the den.

make sure the paperwork is in order before arrival, and you have checked their references. 

Buyers want to see happy dogs in clean environment..


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## myla (Feb 12, 2011)

*Thanks for that*

I really do appriate it, and do those things....but some idiot brought PARVO into my property on Dec 31.....it was a nighmare! I now have people put on those doctor booties, NO ONE is allowed in the basement....even I change shoes when going to work with the puppies.....but would like to know if anyone else has gone thru this as a breeder. Am starting the NEOPAR program, but any other ideas and thoughts would be appriated. Some people have told me not to allow people on the ranch, but I am proud of my dogs, and the ranch....and want people to meet the parents of the puppies, since they are all such great dogs!


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## Locket (Jun 21, 2009)

myla said:


> Thanks for that info, I respect your opinions......please remember, I am NOT a substandard breeder.....I DO breed for health, temperament and beauty....in that order.
> 
> Again, thanks for your view point!


So then all your breeding dogs have been tested for genetic illness?


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Locket said:


> So then all your breeding dogs have been tested for genetic illness?


I was going to ask the same question...

Like faerie I have a mix a doodle in fact that I adore he is the most even tempered dog I have ever met but I don't think that was a product of where he grew up, more the fact that he lived in a shelter for a whole year of his life because he didn't produce what his breeder wanted him too his cute mixed pups were left at the same place but were adopted quickly

I cannot believe that someone producing mixes of any type cares what the outcome maybe for their puppies, just how strong the cash flow is into their pockets!


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## myla (Feb 12, 2011)

*Thanks*

OK, so at this point i think no matter what I say you will find something to criticize....therefore I will say nothing and continue to look for some help with the reason I came to this forum.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

The fact that you say you love your dogs and care about their health and well being, but will breed them to any breed that is popular, and that people demand is a major red flag for me. You even said you created this puli/poodle mix because people asked for it. How can you admit it was not for money that you did this? Charging that much money for mixed breeds when you have no health testing fees, show fees, etc. to off set just gets me. 
As someone who owns a dog with multiple major health issues, it disgusts me to no end when i see "breeders" who do not health test. Have you ever lived with, paid for, and suffered through sickness, illness and hurt with your beloved dog? That is what alot of your puppies and buyers will be going through if you do not prevent problems by selective breeding and health testing. You said on your page that every animal/person has genetic flaws. True, however we live in an age where there are tests so that we can eleminate these. That is some fancy footwork writing on your page to distract buyers from the fact you dont do health testing.



> 'we may be non profit, but it's not by choice'.


Im a little confused by this statement. You are absolutely making a Huge profit on your dogs!! So if it was your choice, you would rather be like a buiness in it for just the money? You can love your dogs and still do alot of wrong things with them..


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

you came to this forum because someone posted direct links to your website and you wanted to see what was being said.

and you realize that folks were calling your place a puppy mill and you want to say you are not.

however, when you quit with breeding mutts and maybe start working on testing and breeding pure bred quality dogs including testing, then no one will say squat and instead will say ..oh yay ... this person came around and really is working towards something positive in the pure bred realm.


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

I find it interesting that the first post from "Myla" is a thinly veiled threat. But that case happened in Ontario Canada, notorious as the place to go if you want to sue for libel. Rules are different in the US. Here ya go:



> Canada, the UK and Australia, libel laws are biased in-favor of the injured party and it is up to the libeler to prove that their statements are true.* This is the exact opposite of USA libel law where the defamed party must prove that the statement is false.
> 
> Canadian libel law is so draconian that people come from all over the world to file libel suits in Ontario.


You learn something new every day.


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

faerie said:


> you came to this forum because someone posted direct links to your website and you wanted to see what was being said.
> 
> and you realize that folks were calling your place a puppy mill and you want to say you are not.
> 
> however, when you quit with breeding mutts and maybe start working on testing and breeding pure bred quality dogs including testing, then no one will say squat and instead will say ..oh yay ... this person came around and really is working towards something positive in the pure bred realm.


:amen:


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## Bella's Momma (Jul 26, 2009)

OMG...the mom. How does she see?


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I paid as much for my purebred, health tested, temperamented tested puppy with a health guarantee and socalization as you sell your mutts for.

Way to fail.

That's a lot of face palms.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> I paid as much for my purebred, health tested, temperamented tested puppy with a health guarantee and socalization as you sell your mutts for.
> 
> Way to fail.
> 
> That's a lot of face palms.


oh dear god I love you <3
:amen:


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

Fluffyspoos said:


> I paid as much for my purebred, health tested, temperamented tested puppy with a health guarantee and socalization as you sell your mutts for.
> 
> Way to fail.
> 
> That's a lot of face palms.


This made my day.


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## cbrand (Aug 9, 2009)

RE ACC Ranch.

I live in Colorado so I am very aware of this high volume breeder. ACC Ranch routinely has as many as 10 litters of various breeds on the ground at any one time. They currently have 8 litters of puppies available. They breed all manner of mixed breed dogs as well as Standard Poodles. Last spring their web site said that their Poodles "surprised" them by getting pregnant all at the same time (as if they were doing it on their own) so they had 5 Standard Poodle litters at the same time. Apparently the girls are at it again because they have 4 litters of Standard Poodles available now. To my knowledge, they don't test their breeding dogs.

Worse, however, is the condition they keep their dogs in. Last winter I had a woman call me in tears because she had just been out to ACC Ranch. She called me because she did not know what to do. Although hearsay, this is an accounting of what she told me.....

She said that she went to ACC Ranch and that the Standard Poodles were kept in pens in a barn along with litters of puppies. The adults were filthy and afraid of strangers. She said that the smell in the barn was so strong that she could not stay in there. She saw one 14 week old puppy (she was told that the puppy had been returned and she was told the puppy's age) being kept alone in an outdoor pen. This was last winter when daytime temperatures were below freezing for days on end. She said that she went inside the house and that it was filthy and in serious disarray. I told her I didn't know what to do but that I would try to help. I called animal control and they said that the woman herself needed to call the county sheriff since she was the one who had been there. I don't know what the outcome of this incident was.



If ACC Ranch loves their dogs, they have a funny way of showing it.



As far as their Shepadoodles go, I talked to another woman last year at the Denver dog show who had bought a sheepadoodle from ACC Ranch. This was a cross between an Old English Sheepdog and a Poodle. She came to talk to us at the Poodle Meet the Breed session we were holding because her dog was constantly matted and she wanted grooming advice (ironic that she came to the Poodle people for help). She said also said that her dog was very disconnected, independent and did not want to interact with her family. 

As we have noted in the past, buyers need to do their part. Breeders will not change their breeding practices until buyers start demanding better. As long as buyers want to be able to buy a puppy immediately off the shelf for a lower price, breeders like ACC Ranch will continue to exist.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Carol, all of that just seems so horrible!!! How sad for those dogs.


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