# Bedtime Snack?



## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

Thanks to this group, I finally found the combination of food my toy actually likes and asks for... 

When he was a puppy, we gave him Instinct Raw mixers as a treat or bedtime snack. Little did we know it was almost all he would eat.

Fast forward 2.5 years, and Instinct turned those mixers into complete and balanced meals. When we added them to his Primal and hydrated all with turkey broth, we had a winner.

BUT, he still wants a bedtime snack every night. We try to limit it to 10 of those little pieces, some of which we saved from his daily allotment.

I was reading some poodle groups on facebook, and it seems that with toys, many people give their dog a bedtime snack to keep them from being too hungry and getting hunger pukes.

Except my little guy really doesn't do breakfast. What I do is give him 10 of those pieces as training treats around 10am and he gets nearly all the rest of his food at 4:30pm. Then I give him the balance, plus a few, at bedtime.

Does your toy do this? I'm thinking of feeding him less at dinner so he can have more of it at bedtime. We do need to take a pound off him, and I'm sure giving him excess food at bedtime has contributed to it.


----------



## reraven123 (Jul 21, 2017)

Don't know about toys, but my SPOO often skips breakfast. Why do you _need_ him to eat breakfast if he doesn't want it?


----------



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Would he eat breakfast if you offered it? And does he get any other food throughout the day?

I would say that excess weight (on a poodle, at least) is more likely to be from incorrectly portioned human food and/or a lack of daily exercise than from a toy-sized serving of kibble at bedtime.


----------



## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

He won't eat it. Every now and then, if I'm portioning out his broth, he will eat breakfast if I use it to hydrate. If I leave it out, unhydrated, he will eat around 1pm or so. Then he ruins his dinner  He gets no other food, except a small bite of our lunch if it's to his liking. 

I give him half an ounce of turkey breast mixed in with his dinner and adjust his dog-food calories to account for it. But I agree, it's difficult to gauge how many calories I'm giving him, particularly since I hydrate with homemade turkey broth.


----------



## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

You could try to keep a food log to track what he eats and adjust accordingly.

I bet our furbabies wish there was a magic pill too, "What do you mean I have to diet AND exercise?!?"


----------



## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

Thank you.


----------



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

It’s possible he’s not hungry for breakfast because of nausea. A bedtime snack can definitely help with that. But it’s also possible he’s just getting too much food for his size, so he’s self-regulating by skipping breakfast.

Assuming he weighs 9 pounds, and the average human male weighs 180, half an ounce of turkey breakfast with his dinner would be like a human having 10 oz. of turkey breast! That’s a whole meal in itself.

That’s why I say that human food is often the culprit behind poodle weight gain.  Try imagining every “extra” you give him multiplied by 20, so you can visualize the human equivalent.


----------



## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

Thank you. If I use the food as training treats he'll eat it. I would say half the time he does it happily. I try to tell my husband not to share his food, but he's so damned cute my husband falls for it every time.  

I'm trying a different approach this week... I'm subtracting his usual bedtime snack amount from his dinner to see if that will help. He gets about 110-120 calories a day in dog food 30 in turkey, 10 in treats, and I'm not sure in broth. We try to keep him at about 150-160 calories a day. He's currently 10 pounds, doesn't look too heavy, and the vet wants to see him in 9 or a tiny bit lower.


----------



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

That doesn’t sound like much. I would think he’d weigh less unless he’s not very active.

Might be worth calculating the calories in the broth you’re giving him, especially if he’s getting it every day.

P.S. This is making me seriously miss having a small dog. They eat so little! How do people afford to feed giant breeds?


----------



## Ava. (Oct 21, 2020)

Set out all his food for the day, and proportion it into different times of the day. 

deacon eats two cups of food, but he eats 4 times a day..


----------



## cowpony (Dec 30, 2009)

If your dog is overweight, might some of the morning reluctance be rooted in not needing the calories? If so, could you move the turkey meal to the AM to keep her blood sugar up? Then feed her kibbles etc. as training rewards throughout the day.

My big boys didn't eat breakfast either; they preferred to eat their breakfast as lunch. That was no problem for us; we just left dry kibble out until they felt like eating it. With my current dog I am now forced to portion his food into 4 daily meals, as the greedy cat hit 20 pounds after snacking on dog food all day.


----------



## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

PeggyTheParti said:


> That doesn’t sound like much. I would think he’d weigh less unless he’s not very active.
> 
> Might be worth calculating the calories in the broth you’re giving him, especially if he’s getting it every day.
> 
> P.S. This is making me seriously miss having a small dog. They eat so little! How do people afford to feed giant breeds?


It can't imagine how to calculate the broth. There is nothing in it but turkey parts, legs & breasts, and it's sometimes richer than others, though I do water it down if it looks too rich. 

I sometimes wish he was bigger so I didn't have to worry about every calorie I put in his mouth.


----------



## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

Ava. said:


> Set out all his food for the day, and proportion it into different times of the day.
> 
> deacon eats two cups of food, but he eats 4 times a day..


I would love to do that, but I feed freeze dried raw and it has to be hydrated. The Instinct Meals portion I give dry as training treats and bedtime snack. I may try feeding it entirely dry, but the manufacturers all recommend hydrating for better nutrient absorption.


----------



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Do know the calories of the treats? Because I think they might be more calories each than you think just as an example the tiny cookies and treats I give mine are between 5 to 8 Calories each and you need to include the food your hubby feeds him.
How do you measure the food? I bought a 2 tablespoon scoop to measure their food I feed mine 104 calories of food, and 10 calories of treats and 15 calories of peanut butter daily. Mine get fed at 4:30 am and 5 p.m. yes they do get other treats but that is every few days the odd piece of fruit and veg.

Gilligan might just eat later, but he is still probably eating a little too much.


----------



## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

cowpony said:


> If your dog is overweight, might some of the morning reluctance be rooted in not needing the calories? If so, could you move the turkey meal to the AM to keep her blood sugar up? Then feed her kibbles etc. as training rewards throughout the day.
> 
> My big boys didn't eat breakfast either; they preferred to eat their breakfast as lunch. That was no problem for us; we just left dry kibble out until they felt like eating it. With my current dog I am now forced to portion his food into 4 daily meals, as the greedy cat hit 20 pounds after snacking on dog food all day.


It is very possible that his bedtime snack is holding him over until around 1pm, and by "forcing" him to train with them at around 10am (or so) we are giving him food when he's not hungry. But he definitely wants that bedtime snack... he actually gives me the stare for it, and sometimes barks. I may have to try to move his dinner time to later and let him eat when he's hungry for breakfast or lunch.

We feed him dinner at 4:30 so it frees us up to go out to dinner and/or cook.


----------



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

mary2e said:


> It can't imagine how to calculate the broth. There is nothing in it but turkey parts, legs & breasts, and it's sometimes richer than others, though I do water it down if it looks too rich.
> 
> I sometimes wish he was bigger so I didn't have to worry about every calorie I put in his mouth.


You remove the skin? Or skim all the fat? I can see how this would add up quickly for a toy. I can also see how it would get tedious tracking it all so carefully! That’s where ample daily activity can really help.


----------



## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

PeggyTheParti said:


> You remove the skin? Or skim all the fat? I can see how this would add up quickly for a toy. I can also see how it would get tedious tracking it all so carefully! That’s where ample daily activity can really help.


I make the soup with the skin on, strain it when done, and put it in the fridge for at least 24 hours so I can get rid of all the fat. BUT, turkey isn't that fatty to start with, so there isn't much to skim. It's not like chicken soup with has a lot of fat. 

We are trying to give him more activity, but he's a lazy one. He doesn't want to walk very far. I'm thinking of taking him to day care for a few hours, but he's not well socialized either - but we're working on it and he's getting better. Our neighbors got dogs within the last couple of years, and he's bee playing with them. Unfortunately, with the pandemic, we couldn't even let them play in our homes.


----------



## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

twyla said:


> Do know the calories of the treats? Because I think they might be more calories each than you think just as an example the tiny cookies and treats I give mine are between 5 to 8 Calories each and you need to include the food your hubby feeds him.
> How do you measure the food? I bought a 2 tablespoon scoop to measure their food I feed mine 104 calories of food, and 10 calories of treats and 15 calories of peanut butter daily. Mine get fed at 4:30 am and 5 p.m. yes they do get other treats but that is every few days the odd piece of fruit and veg.
> 
> Gilligan might just eat later, but he is still probably eating a little too much.


Yes. We give dehydrated apple, and each slice is about 5 calories. We give him mini milk bones after dinner at 5 calories each. I don't measure the food - I weigh it and since I use different proteins every day from Primal, I have a chart telling me how much Instinct I need to add based on the Primal protein. It generally is 22 grams of food a day, plus the turkey, broth, and treats. 

Your guys are smaller than Gilligan. Isn't Leonard around 5 pounds? Gilligan was supposed to grow up to be 7-8 pounds. I think I grew him too much  But it's definitely a result of him refusing to eat for the first 1.5 I had him.


----------



## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

I looked up the calories in homemade turkey broth.. It's really low calorie, as in 10 calories per cup. I'm adding a tablespoon to his meal every day, plus a half ounce of turkey breast, which is low calorie too.


----------



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Lenny is 6 1/2 maybe 7 pounds pounds, Pia is 8 1/2 pounds, Gracie the chi mix is 7 pounds, right now Bea is 11 pounds


----------



## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

twyla said:


> Lenny is 6 1/2 maybe 7 pounds pounds, Pia is 8 1/2 pounds, Gracie the chi mix is 7 pounds, right now Bea is 11 pounds


Wow... So perhaps I am giving him too many calories even though I feed a bit less than the vet recommended after calculating it for me. Thank you.


----------



## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

It took a little experimentation and slow reduction when the girls were younger and it was very important for Bea to remain fit after her knee surgeries, with Leonard since he is smaller or rather more slighter structure I have kept an eye on his waist line to make sure he isn't gaining too much weight.
I would just cut back just a little, like a tablespoon or roughly an ounce and see what hsppens.


----------



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I would just warn against cutting back on a balanced food in order to accommodate sugary treats (dehydrated apple) or doggy junk food (milk bones). This is always a balancing act, but it must be so hard with a toy. You could easily end up with an overweight poodle who is also undernourished.


----------



## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

twyla said:


> It took a little experimentation and slow reduction when the girls were younger and it was very important for Bea to remain fit after her knee surgeries, with Leonard since he is smaller or rather more slighter structure I have kept an eye on his waist line to make sure he isn't gaining too much weight.
> I would just cut back just a little, like a tablespoon or roughly an ounce and see what hsppens.


Thanks. Leonard does look a bit smaller in stature than Gilligan. I tried something new yesterday. I portioned out his daily food and the Instinct, which is what I give for the bedtime snack, usually amounts to 30 pieces a day. He got 10 for breakfast, and dinner, and I saved 10 to give at bedtime. He was satisfied with that any only nagged for a couple more pieces, which I gave. Normally he would nag for about 10 pieces, and those would be extra.

Now that it's warmer we're hoping we can convince him to walk and we have a better chance of having the neighbors dogs come and play in the yard.


----------



## mary2e (Jan 29, 2018)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I would just warn against cutting back on a balanced food in order to accommodate sugary treats (dehydrated apple) or doggy junk food (milk bones). This is always a balancing act, but it must be so hard with a toy. You could easily end up with an overweight poodle who is also undernourished.


That is my concern. Next cook, I'm going to cut back the turkey a bit to try to fill in with dog food. I'm also going to give a try at hydrating his food with turkey broth and not giving any people food at all and replacing those calories with dog food.

It is really difficult dealing with such small quantities, but I am not going to complain. You and others were huge helps when I was trying to get him to eat anything... now I have the opposite problem.


----------



## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

I give a bedtime snack and it did come about due to Mochi having hunger pukes every morning about 30min to 1 hour before my alarm would go off. She'd feel so bad in the mornings that she wouldn't touch her breakfast and then around 11am she'd get the pukes again. When we got Chuui we could not leave food out for her all day so I developed our current routine: feed the dry kibble (Instinct) for dinner around 7pm. They get a teenie greenie at bedtime btwn 11pm and midnight. Then we get up at 7am and they get their awesome, most-bestest-food-evaarrr (thier opinion) Instinct Frozen raw bites for breakfast. Mochi wouldn't reliably eat anything else I tried for breakfast and her hunger pukes were pretty much constant back then. But still the greenie at bedtime is the key in our case.


----------

