# HELP! Pup is NOT what was expected!



## Feelingdoc

Wow, so sorry for the disappointment/deceit. I don't have a answer to what to do but it sure sounds like you didn't get the quality you paid for.


----------



## CharismaticMillie

Yikes!!!!!

A standard puppy would weigh 3 lbs around 3 weeks of age, give or take.


----------



## Apres Argent

Is this a Mini or Toy? I would expect a Standard Poodle at 9 weeks to weight at the very least 8 to 9 pounds.


----------



## Carley's Mom

What did the vet say ? Could he be much younger than you were told? Would love to see a picture or video.


----------



## mamato3

My guess would be he is only a few weeks old. This happened to me last year. The pup was supposed to be 8 weeks but the vet guessed him to be 4 weeks. We had to feed him formula. Hang in there. Give him tons of love.


----------



## smia

Here's his picture: 7" tall at the shoulder; 9 weeks old; 3 pounds ...Breeder swears he's a Standard.


----------



## MiniPoo

He is absolutely beautiful! Love his coloring. Perhaps he is a small standard. I got the runt of a litter where the usual size PWD is 55-65 lbs. My dog turned out to be 40 lbs. I actually wanted the smaller size so it was fine. What age does the vet think he is?


----------



## Tiny Poodles

Well he is just beautiful, and he does not look younger then his stated age, but my gosh, he is the size of a large toy poodle puppy! Was he checked for coccidia? That, and a liver shunt are the only things that I can think of that might stop a puppy from growing. But if all is well, I can't imagine that he would be more than 12-15 pounds tops full grown!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## PoodlePaws

My 2 toys weighed 2.02 lbs at 6 weeks old. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## JudyD

He is a little beauty, isn't he? But very small--our standard pup weighed about 14 pounds at 9 weeks.


----------



## MeMe B

He's really a pretty pup! My poo is a toy - she's now 7 - but she weighed about the same weight as yours at that age. Her size was about the same too. Maybe the others are right and maybe pup is younger than you think?? Best to you!


----------



## Carley's Mom

He is very cute, and small. I think he is younger than 9 weeks. What is the vet saying about his age?


----------



## Locket

Absolutely adorable!! But also absolutely not a 9 week old standard. 

Have all/any of his baby teeth grown in yet?


----------



## Quossum

Very cute pup; his coloring is almost identical to Sugarfoot's. But just looking at the size of his feet, his proportions...he looks more like a young mini than a standard.

Had you seen pics of the litter? The sire and dam? It does seem that there's something strange going on. I would not be happy with paying to send him back and then paying again to have another pup sent.

Good luck on whatever you decide! 

--Q


----------



## Locket

Also, small poodles or large poodles, they're equally amazing!

and I would not trust the breeder to send you a different puppy...


----------



## Minnie

With that type of breeder response I would absolutely not trust them to send you another puppy. The vet should be able to give you an estimate on age. If you are really wanting a standard then I would suggest rehoming and starting your search over - run far far away from this breeder!

Poodles on the small side are wonderful. Our home is run by a 4 pound dinamo that is loved ever so much


----------



## Minnie

smia said:


> Here's his picture: 7" tall at the shoulder; 9 weeks old; 3 pounds ...Breeder swears he's a Standard.


I wonder if they sent you the right puppy? I really don't think he looks like the picture in your post a few weeks ago!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue_willow_poodles/13946974610/


----------



## cindyreef

The two pics do look different. This pup has white on his face. But he is soooo cute.


----------



## MiniPoo

They could be the same dog. The pictures were taken from different points of view. If this dog is a standard at 9 weeks, it might need more testing to make sure it doesn't have a health problem. If it is really just the runt, you have to decide if you can live with a dog that will be more a mini size than a standard.

I am surprised your breeder didn't tell you her weight before you got her. I knew my dog was the runt because I got a picture of the entire litter and saw one of her littermates was actually twice her size. The rest were just bigger. Your breeder should have told you about her size.


----------



## PoodlePaws

I would keep her. I definitely wouldn't trust this breeder about anything else. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## ItzaClip

For comparison here is vogue at 10 weeks. 12" tall and 10lbs. Now at year old she is 23" at shoulder and 40lbs. So still a smaller standard. ( I'm 5'10 for perspective)

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Carley's Mom

I keep hoping some of our breeders will comment on this pup as to what may be going on. I know this much is true, you have been taken by your breeder. No way they did not know this pup was too small, if it is 9 weeks old. You should have been told about the size. If it is younger, again, the breeder was dishonest. I certainly would not trust them to suddenly do what they say now... I would try to find out the age for sure, a vet should be able to help you with that, I would take it to a couple. I don't think they would even charge you to just guess at a pups age. If they think it is 9 weeks old, it needs a few test done to see what is going on and why it is not growing. This pup could have easily been sold as a mini , so I don't think that is the puzzle solved... I think it is very cute, and if healthy, I would keep it and love it ! It is hard to tell much from the photo, but I am guessing that you have a standard pup about 4 weeks old, that is on the small side.


----------



## Newmum

You already know this puppy isn't a standard or is much younger than the breeder has said but for comparison Ember is a mini (16") at 8 weeks she weighed 4lbs, at 9 weeks she was already 5lbs. If this puppy is 9 weeks I think you may even have a toy sized pup. Like someone else said, try and check her teeth and see what kind of stage they are at, that should give people a good idea to estimate age. Whatever you decide it will be a hard decision as you say you have already started to bond with the puppy but I think everyone here will understand and support you in what you decide to do. I really feel for you.


----------



## CharismaticMillie

8 week old standard puppy who will likely mature to around 22-23 inches tall and 35-40 lbs. She was around 9 lbs.

You're in a tough situation. Very odd and something definitely is not quite right about it all! I'm sorry!


----------



## Tiny Poodles

CharismaticMillie said:


> 8 week old standard puppy who will likely mature to around 22-23 inches tall and 35-40 lbs. She was around 9 lbs.
> 
> You're in a tough situation. Very odd and something definitely is not quite right about it all! I'm sorry!



I really feel so sorry for the OP - there is a HUGE difference in lifestyle between a Toy and a Standard - I am trying to imagine what I would have felt if I had been handed a 20 pound standard poodle instead of the two pound toy that I was expecting when I gotTimi, and I just can't do it - it is unthinkable.
I think that ultimately if I was in the OP's position, I would try to report the breeder to whatever authorities I could, and if I did not have room in my life for a toy and a standard, I would carefully place the puppy in a new home, and start all over from scratch. No way, no how would I try to get another puppy from that breeder... Time to cut your loses with that one...


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## PoodleFoster

smia said:


> Help please!
> My standard poodle puppy just arrived Wednesday & upon 1st look I immediately texted the Breeder & asked, 'are you sure this is a 'Standard'...he's Soooo tiny'.
> AKC papers say 'standard'; breeder claims they only have 'standards', yet this puppy is 9 weeks old & only 3 pounds.
> 
> There was never a word about him being the runt before he sent him to me. Now he says, 'send him back & I'll send you an older pup'...but, he wants me to pay for his return.
> hi
> i took the time to look at your flicker pictures to see what your pup looked like before he arrived. WOW THAT IS A LOT OF PUPPIES...ARE THOSE ALL CURRENT PHOTOS? not sure what I'm eluding to...just wondering.
> 
> How are things going for your puppy? good luck with your puppy


----------



## poodlecrazy#1

I did the same thing and looked through the Flicker pics. If those pictures are all pups from the breeder then I am thinking you were purposely given a mini or this breeder just doesn't know the difference between a standard and a mini. There are a few pups I was looking at that are obviously an oversized mini, but the description is claiming they are a standard. One name comes to mind i think it was Tinkerbell. She is absolutely gorgeous but there is no way she is a standard. Your baby is adorable. With that picture he almost looks like an oversized toy! 3lbs is extremely small. I hope you can figure out what is going on and figure out what you are going to do. I personally would keep that little darling and find a reputable standard breeder and get a standard from them. But that is just me  the more poodles the better . 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Spoos+Ponies

I went to flickr to see the pictures as well. It's hard to tell the size without much else for frame of reference, other than the tea caddy. I went to the web-site to see the size of the parents, but they weren't listed...I guess not everyone keeps their web-site up to date. And, you're right - not cheap. It's just wrong for them not to tell you that he was extraordinarily small - people who buy standard pups are hoping for a larger dog. That he's adorable is beside the fact....Hopefully you can get an appropriate response from the breeder.


----------



## CharismaticMillie

I'm really perplexed by this! I did some snooping around on Facebook and one would have thought this was at least a decent breeder. Hmm. I wonder if there could have been toys or minis in the standard parents' pedigrees, and this puppy is sort of like a "throwback"?


----------



## smia

*update on my 'predicament'*

I so appreciate all your responses, though no one is really making me feel any better...perhaps because you're all just as confused as me! I too was hoping that some of the breeders would respond & offer their insight.
I'm trying to give this breeder the benefit of the doubt, but it's becoming more and more difficult. I've been crying for 2 days; my eyes are sore from research. I obviously did NOT get what I paid for & I PAID big time! I absolutely LOVE him but I was expecting a Standard. I've offered the breeder a few options, that I feel are fair, so we'll see what he says. 
I've talked to several vets & their immediate concern is a liver shunt...great; but, he's too young to test.
A few of you said, 'keep him' & then get a Standard. That's not financially feasible, nor physically possible at this time. We have a Maltese & it's a miracle as it is that my husband said I could have one:act-up:
This is supposed to be fun?


----------



## CharismaticMillie

smia said:


> I so appreciate all your responses, though no one is really making me feel any better...perhaps because you're all just as confused as me! I too was hoping that some of the breeders would respond & offer their insight.
> I'm trying to give this breeder the benefit of the doubt, but it's becoming more and more difficult. I've been crying for 2 days; my eyes are sore from research. I obviously did NOT get what I paid for & I PAID big time! I absolutely LOVE him but I was expecting a Standard. I've offered the breeder a few options, that I feel are fair, so we'll see what he says.
> I've talked to several vets & their immediate concern is a liver shunt...great; but, he's too young to test.
> A few of you said, 'keep him' & then get a Standard. That's not financially feasible, nor physically possible at this time. We have a Maltese & it's a miracle as it is that my husband said I could have one:act-up:
> This is supposed to be fun?


I'm really sorry you are having to go through this. It is supposed to be fun. I've talked with a few other breeders and all we could think of was, throwback puppy, or liver shunt. I'm very disappointed the breeder hasn't been more of a help to you. Have you discussed the possibility that this puppy could have a liver shunt with the breeder or has that not been responded to by the breeder either?


----------



## Carley's Mom

So sorry ! I can't imagine how you feel. I wanted a spoo for years before my husband would agree as well, so I understand that you can't keep this pup and start over. It is just heartbreaking, and your sweet little guy right there in the middle... I went to fb and found the breeder as well and I would not have thought they would be so dishonest and heartless either. I guess people will do anything for $$$$. I will not ever believe that they did not know something was wrong with this pup, but maybe , they might make it right. I hope so. Please keep us updated, sending you a hug.


----------



## N2Mischief

I am not going to be much help either, but wanted to say I can imagine how you feel and I am so sorry! I hope you and the breeder can come to some kind of agreeable solution. Keep us updated!


----------



## PoodleRick

smia said:


> Here's his picture: 7" tall at the shoulder; 9 weeks old; 3 pounds ...Breeder swears he's a Standard.


I sorry you're going through all this. Getting a puppy is supposed to be fun but only if you're getting what you thought you were. Just for comparison here is Penny at 6 weeks. 









And here she is at 9 weeks, the day we picked her up.










Your pup is really small but to my eye he doesn't look like a 6 week old pup. Look at his hair. It looks more developed than a 6 week old pup. It looks more like Pennys' 9 week old pic. I'm thinking he's either a really really small standard or, as was mentioned earlier, if there was Mini or Toy genes in there this pup is taking after those ancestors.

Now, hopefully to make you feel better, Penny is my third Spoo. My first two were pretty big. Roxy was 27 inches and nearly 60 pounds and Beau was 27-28 and 65ish pounds. I'm really hoping Penny isn't that big. Roxy and Beau almost took up the whole back seat of the car and love seat and most of the bed. Penny at 6 months is 22 inches and 35ish pounds. A more compact poodle, I think, may be easier to go places with.

Rick


----------



## BorderKelpie

Awww, so sad. Yes, it's supposed to be fun and you are so not having fun. It's a shame you were so misled. He is a gorgeous pup but you and the pup both deserve better treatment than you recieved. You specifically wanted a standard and did not get one, somebody out there some where has been wanting a tiny parti poodle and he should have gone there. 

It's just so not fair to either of you and I am so sorry. 

I wish there was an easy, pain-free way to fix this. 

((hugs))


----------



## patk

i'm not sure you want to do this, but one possibility is to point out to the breeder that you have asked owners and breeders at pf and everyone seems to think your dog 1) is not a standard pup or 2) is very possibly not healthy.

you have to gauge the possible reaction from the breeder; some will get really angry, some will realize they are not helping themselves. bottom line is this kind of publicity is not good for the breeder. making it right would be.

i see the prices on the site run in the $2k range. that's right about what some of the best breeders in the country charge and for that amount of money, yes, the breeder needs to make it right.


----------



## smia

I sent the breeder the link to this thread. I'm thinking he's going to understand that i'm not alone in these thoughts. As soon as i returned from the vet, i told him they were talking liver shunts & low blood sugar possibilities. He swore he was healthy & that i don't need to test him.
I called 5 other Parti breeders all over california & explained my dilemna, without divulging the breeder's name...it's not my intention to trash anyone's reputation. One lady just laughed when i told her i was sent a 3 pound, 9 week old 'standard' poodle.
I'm hoping he'll do the right thing, both for us & the pup.


----------



## Tiny Poodles

smia said:


> I sent the breeder the link to this thread. I'm thinking he's going to understand that i'm not alone in these thoughts. As soon as i returned from the vet, i told him they were talking liver shunts & low blood sugar possibilities. He swore he was healthy & that i don't need to test him.
> 
> I called 5 other Parti breeders all over california & explained my dilemna, without divulging the breeder's name...it's not my intention to trash anyone's reputation. One lady just laughed when i told her i was sent a 3 pound, 9 week old 'standard' poodle.
> 
> I'm hoping he'll do the right thing, both for us & the pup.



Well I am sorry, but that sounds quite shady for a breeder to swear that a 3 pound, 9 week old Spoo is healthy, and implore you not to do any medical testing!
If the breeder does not do the right thing here, you certainly should post their name, and this story all over the internet and Facebook - you might just save some others from going through a similar traumatic experience with them!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## smia

Oh, believe you me, he is messing with the wrong person if his goal was to deceive. I've presented 3 options to him that i will consider & i've notified my credit card company just incase.


----------



## Tiny Poodles

smia said:


> Oh, believe you me, he is messing with the wrong person if his goal was to deceive. I've presented 3 options to him that i will consider & i've notified my credit card company just incase.



So glad to hear that the payment was on your credit card!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## patk

Tiny Poodles said:


> So glad to hear that the payment was on your credit card!


also a good reason not to diss breeders who use paypal. paypal tends to side with the person paying, not the payee.


----------



## Tiny Poodles

patk said:


> also a good reason not to diss breeders who use paypal. paypal tends to side with the person paying, not the payee.



I have found that outside of EBay Paypal is not very helpful - if I use Paypal, i do it with my credit card, and go directly to Visa if there is a problem.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## patk

Tiny Poodles said:


> I have found that outside of EBay Paypal is not very helpful - if I use Paypal, i do it with my credit card, and go directly to Visa if there is a problem.


that's how i used it. i don't use it anymore, though, because i was told i needed to provide a link to my bank account. no way. so ebay lost my business, too. nonetheless, while i was able to use it, it was a convenient way of avoiding providing the seller my credit card info.


----------



## AutisticDogLover

I don't know about you guys but MANY of their puppy pictures don't look like standards to me(though they seem to have adult standards and a couple of standard pups)

I mean there is NO WAY this puppy is a standard though it is listed as such
https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue_willow_poodles/14414151992/


I look at their pictures and their website and I can't help but wonder if they have a couple of standard poodles (that they've bred a few times by the looks of it) and are now using those dogs names as the parents of their current litters but in reality those puppy's parents are mini or toy poodles(at least one of them at least)
Because there is just NO WAY some of those puppies are standards

That's my theory at least
I could be wrong but I'm REALLY suspicious of them


----------



## PoodlePaws

Just looked at their website and their standards look really small. I guess your puppy could be a teensie runt. It looks more like a mini runt though. Your dogs face - the bone structure doesn't look like a standard. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## smia

Oh, believe you me, he is messing with the wrong person if his goal was to deceive. I've presented 3 options to him that i will consider & i've notified my credit card company just incase.


----------



## hunny518

My standard weighed 14 lbs at 9 weeks. And she is on the smaller side of the normal size of a standard weighing in at 39 lbs at 2 yrs old

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## hunny518

Holy crap! This breeder lives by me! 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## hunny518

I'm appalled how much they are selling these puppies for! There is no talk about health testing. They claim their dogs have great conformation and blah blah blah. But their puppies don't look conformationally sound.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Streetcar

hunny518 said:


> I'm appalled how much they are selling these puppies for! There is no talk about health testing. They claim their dogs have great conformation and blah blah blah. But their puppies don't look conformationally sound.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


They link to some test results if you click on the individual Poodles. I notice the sire of the the tuxedo litter is not yet two years of age, so testing can't even have occurred yet. At least that's how I understand it and of course I could be wrong.


----------



## Shamrockmommy

The puppy is beautiful but look at those tiny feet! Any update on the situation?


----------



## GeriDe

Sometimes we don't get what we think we're going to get and it can be disappointing and frustrating and worrisome - trust me, anyone who's read my saga with Khaos knows...but, well, sometimes what we want isn't what we need or what needs us?

Do you love the dog? Does the dog love you? Is he/she a
good dog, nice temperament, trainable? Maybe you got taken financially and ethically and ended up with a dream of a dog.


----------



## smia

Everything else about this LITTLE guy is absolutely awesome! I didn't want a toy or mini but if i am compensated as i expect to be, then i'll keep him. If i am left to bear the gamble that he may or may not finish out in the 'Standard' range & if i have to bear the burden of the underlying concern that he may have a liver shunt, then i do NOT expect to be charged $2000 for a potentially compromised pup. 
This seems quite logical to me but for some reason this particular breeder felt this was a top dollar pup despite what should have been obvious concerns, & didn't seem to think it prudent that he disclose his size to me before putting him on a plane.
it's not the pup's fault & i do love him...it just makes me sick to think about giving him up. I'm having to play mind games with myself by pretending that i'm just his 'foster' mom until i know how this is going to play out.
Prayers appreciated.
you have all been awesome!


----------



## Carley's Mom

I don't think she should just say, oh well, I wanted an spoo, paid for a spoo, but I will just take this cute pup instead... I would be scared to death of that pup. I feel sure it is going to have some major problems if it is a 9 week old standard. If it is decided that it is not 9 weeks old and much younger, then I would feel cheated, but keep it and hope for the best. I agree with what some of the others have said, it's coat looks like an older pup. At first I thought it was younger, but now not so sure. This breeder is blowing out smoke, he is not honest, and he needs to make it right. I don't know that he will, hopefully you can get your money back and re-home this little guy , go to another breeder and just start over. This should be reported and posted all over the internet, I noticed on pintrest that he is showing standard pups in teacups !!!!! Who on this earth has ever heard of a teacup Standard? Well , until now, I guess...

I feel for you. I know you love him and he is so cute. But it does not change the fact that you were cheated. Let us know if the breeder does right by you. I hope so badly that he will. These dishonest breeders are betting that you will not be able to turn your back on the pup once you have it in your hands. That is how they are able to cheat over and over again. We fall in love and want to save the one we have. I would be the same way, I understand.


----------



## Carley's Mom

Teacup Standard Anyone ?


----------



## Indiana

Carley's Mom said:


> I don't think she should just say, oh well, I wanted an spoo, paid for a spoo, but I will just take this cute pup instead... I would be scared to death of that pup. I feel sure it is going to have some major problems if it is a 9 week old standard. If it is decided that it is not 9 weeks old and much younger, then I would feel cheated, but keep it and hope for the best. I agree with what some of the others have said, it's coat looks like an older pup. At first I thought it was younger, but now not so sure. This breeder is blowing out smoke, he is not honest, and he needs to make it right. I don't know that he will, hopefully you can get your money back and re-home this little guy , go to another breeder and just start over. This should be reported and posted all over the internet, I noticed on pintrest that he is showing standard pups in teacups !!!!! Who on this earth has ever heard of a teacup Standard? Well , until now, I guess...
> 
> I feel for you. I know you love him and he is so cute. But it does not change the fact that you were cheated. Let us know if the breeder does right by you. I hope so badly that he will. These dishonest breeders are betting that you will not be able to turn your back on the pup once you have it in your hands. That is how they are able to cheat over and over again. We fall in love and want to save the one we have. I would be the same way, I understand.


I agree with Carley's mom; if you love the puppy, great. But no one would dispute that you have a case against this breeder. 3 lbs at 8 weeks??? give me a break; my boston terrier was 5 lbs at 8 weeks.


----------



## Tiny Poodles

smia said:


> Everything else about this LITTLE guy is absolutely awesome! I didn't want a toy or mini but if i am compensated as i expect to be, then i'll keep him. If i am left to bear the gamble that he may or may not finish out in the 'Standard' range & if i have to bear the burden of the underlying concern that he may have a liver shunt, then i do NOT expect to be charged $2000 for a potentially compromised pup.
> 
> This seems quite logical to me but for some reason this particular breeder felt this was a top dollar pup despite what should have been obvious concerns, & didn't seem to think it prudent that he disclose his size to me before putting him on a plane.
> 
> it's not the pup's fault & i do love him...it just makes me sick to think about giving him up. I'm having to play mind games with myself by pretending that i'm just his 'foster' mom until i know how this is going to play out.
> 
> Prayers appreciated.
> 
> you have all been awesome!



If you are keeping the puppy, I would advise you to immediately sign him up for one of the quality pet health insurance plans - if you don't do it before a medical issue can be detected, it will be too late.
I am sure that you gave already googled and found out hoe expensive lovers hunt surgery can be (if it is operatable)


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## smia

thanks for the warning...this is all making me very nervous. He seems healthy. He's active, he's eating more, he's eliminating, ... I hate that I'm having to deal with this. Researching potential health issues that show a high percentage of happening just because his weight is so low...unless he's not a standard; which is a whole other issue, instead of planning all the fun stuff like puppy classes, hikes, etc...
getting irritated now...fast approaching plain mad.:alberteinstein:


----------



## Tiny Poodles

smia said:


> thanks for the warning...this is all making me very nervous. He seems healthy. He's active, he's eating more, he's eliminating, ... I hate that I'm having to deal with this. Researching potential health issues that show a high percentage of happening just because his weight is so low...unless he's not a standard; which is a whole other issue, instead of planning all the fun stuff like puppy classes, hikes, etc...
> 
> getting irritated now...fast approaching plain mad.:alberteinstein:



I hate to say it, but if your vets chart indicates that he is a standard poodle, then that size would be a sign of a pre-existing condition. You may want to go to a new vet and tell them that he is a poodle, and let them decide what size. Poodles are not registered by the size - it just says poodle, and that he is...


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## patk

tp, even if what you say is true, let's say that this a poodle out of what is supposed to be a standard breeding. if he is, then, wouldn't you say there is likely to be something wrong from a health point of view? since he was sold as a standard, i think the op is right to have him evaluated as one. if he doesn't fall into the norms, she has cause to be suspicious about the breeder and the breeding.


----------



## smia

*update on my 'predicament' #2*

It looks like the Breeder has decided to pay for the puppy's return & to issue me a full refund. 
Thank you all for your advise. It seems like it all boiled down to one of 2 things:
1. This is NOT a Standard poodle or...
2. This is NOT a healthy dog

I just couldn't accept either of those options for that kind of money & apparently, the breeder was unwilling to accept anything less. I guess it's a win-win...except that I've been put through the ringer! Hopefully, he doesn't pull the same game on someone else!

I still want a Standard Poodle though & I'd love some referrals to truly reputable breeders if you have them! I'm afraid that I have become a little gun shy with dealing over the internet, so I would prefer a California referral. San Diego would be ok, since I have a friend that lives down there; or within say 4 hours of the San Francisco Bay Area?


----------



## Carley's Mom

I am so glad to hear this. That cute little pup was going to break your heart, I just know it. Start a new thread asking for breeders in your area. Someone will hook you up. Sorry that you had to go through all this, but at least he is going to make it right.


----------



## PoodlePaws

Glad things worked out, but sad this puppy will most likely be sent to someone unknowing as to the potential problems it may have. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## MollyMuiMa

Here in San Diego......... San Diego Poodle Club breeder referral person is; Norma Strait
(PCA Affiliate) 760-724-9134
or [email protected]


----------



## hunny518

My breeder in portland Oregon is very reputable. Canzone standard poodles.. He mentioned something about planning a breeding this fall. Here is a picture of my girl. I couldn't ask for a better dog. She exceeded my expectations! I wasn't planning on showing, but my breeder gave me a great opportunity  he generally produces blacks with occasionally cream-whites 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Poodlebeguiled

I just read through this thread with my jaw dropped the whole time. It's outrageous. I'm glad the breeder will take back this puppy. It isn't what you planned or dreamed of. Cute but the right puppy for you will also be cute and everything you wanted...most likely. 

Another very, very well respected breeder I know personally and is the secretary of Puget Sound Poodle Club, but is in southwestern Washington is Farthing Poodles. Poodle Home Her name is Christine Dallas and is a lovely English lady... and has gorgeous, well bred Standards and toys. You could possibly drive up there to see them and meet her or give her a call. I don't know if she has any babies at this time or not. It looks like you have to call. When I got my toys, I almost went to her, but found another great breeder up north, closer to where I live. Good luck.


----------



## peppersb

This thread made me so angry that I couldn't even reply without sounding just too irate. The idea that a breeder would ship a 3 pound dog without so much as a phone call.... It really is outrageous. Unfortunately this is not the only story I have heard about pups that were shipped from questionable breeders.

Anyway, I am delighted to hear that you got the situation resolved. Congratulations.

Try 5-star poodles. They are not too far from you. They own Deacon who is my Cammie's father. I referred someone to them a few months ago and she purchased from them and wrote to tell me that she was 100% happy with her puppy and with the breeder. 

Please do not even put a deposit down without visiting the breeder and meeting the momma dog first. Ask to see where the dog sleeps and spends the day. Make sure that the momma dog looks happy, not stressed and needy. You need a happy momma to produce secure happy well-adjusted pups.


----------



## mantlady

Hoo boy. And I thought Zach was little at 4.7 lb. This is the breeder we bought him from....based on several conversations, a site visit, and looking at a whole litter of puppies. 

So, FTR. My pup went from the breeder to the vet; I had an idea there might be issues as their dogs are only in the process of being tested for genetic issues. Plus, the original puppy we decided on died, reportedly of giardia. Zach weighed 4.7 lb, and is very thin. He had ear mites and a skin mite, cheyletiella, diagnosed with a skin scraping. The vet, a sweet man, kept glancing at me pityingly. 

I DID see both parents. The dam was thin, and dry (Zach was born 4/9) and he tried to nurse on her. She looked to be about 45-50 lb and is tall. The sire is a good sized silver, I'd say 60 lb. We were given a choice in this litter, as we do not want the dewclaws off or the tail docked, and therefore had paid up front for the original puppy. He's a solid, and will likely be blue. 

Their kennels, outside, are clean enough; they have 9 standard poodles. I did not see any smaller dogs. They have sheep. 

The dams and puppies are kept inside their home; they had two litters born 4/9. They say they have never had this many puppies- they had litters born in January and February as well. I did NOT see the nursery. There was no odor in the house, though. 

It looks to me that they have too many puppies. For a minute a couple of months ago I was thinking about fostering the sire...husband thought not. Too bad on some levels...he's a big silver who laid his head on my knee and said "Hi, Mom, where ya been?". Eldest daughter pointed out being responsible for an intact male in free range dog country might not be so much fun, and also, we can't have a dog that jumps up on people. Zach is little, but already he doesn't do that. He sits and cocks his head at you ...

I did blurt "He's TINY" when we got there for pickup. It was said he'll grow quickly when he doesn't have to compete for food. 

I'm not a show dog person. The breeder was chosen primarily due to proximity, as I wanted a site visit, and to see the pups, to avoid shipping, and their website did look good. I also wanted someone who would not dock.

There is a local person who breeds a different sort of dog entirely, and it's interesting- he crossbreeds molosssers of several sorts to get LGD/farm dogs, and always posts a picture of the pair tied. A man of very strong opinions, he also has his dogs tested for breed appropriate issues (Hips, especially, these are BIG dogs) and posts them as well. 
This breeder might well consider that 

Now I REALLY need to get a picture uploaded. We're keeping him, and as he makes progress, I'll hopefully be able to update.

I'm a people health care provider. Zach most closely resembles a failure to thrive baby, but isn't depressed or unhealthy appearing (other than the mites infestation, which is apparently classic). His eyes are bright, he bounces, he eats, he poops, he pees. He naps a lot, but I figure it's his age and need to absorb nutrients. We'll see. He is wormed and Revolution-ed (I'd no idea they made the doses that small) and I am feeding him small amounts often. 

Your puppy wasn't by any chance brown? And can anyone give me normal birth weights for regular size standards? Zach was 13 oz.


----------



## 3dogs

Could somebody please pm me a link to this breeder. Thank you.
Just for comparison my OT/Mini who at 10 months is 11" & 7.3lbs.
At birth she was 6 1/4 oz. & at 8 wks, 5 days was 3.5 lbs.

So either this pup was a very sick pup or not a Standard at all.


----------



## DancingBay

I'm in search of a standard puppy in the South East US and your story has reminded me that I definitely need to visit the breeder and pick the puppy up in person. Thank you for sharing and I'm so happy the breeder finally agreed to refund your purchase price and pay to have the puppy shipped back. I am finally convincing my husband that a poodle would be a good fit for our family. He too is balking at the price of a well bred puppy, so I totally understand the challenges you faced financially.


----------



## Ellis1342

Been here, done this. It wasn't with a Poodle, but a rottweiler. I know its hard to convince yourself that you are doing the right thing, but you really are. nearly 4 years ago I was in search of a dog to train as my service animal. We had to early retire my current dog due to strong concerns about his hips. Well I talked to the guy, looked through his site and told him what I wanted! it cost me about 2500, which i thought was right on par for a rottie puppy. Well the pup he described and sent a pic of didn't quite match up. I was told he had their temperaments tested and I would get an easy going puppy. The not so little girl I got was nuts! I had concerns, but I wanted this puppy to be the right one so bad, that i let myself become blind to the problems.

She was an aggresive puppy from the start, and very dominent. I trained her and raised her with love, but she was very possesive. As she got older it kept getting worse. I worked with private trainers and worked hard. In the end she broke her lead and attacked another service dog at a ren faire. She was retired that minute. She had been attacking my other dog and was resource guarding like mad. Its all stuff I tried to correct and work with. In the end I couldn't keep her. There was and is something mentally wrong with her. She has a weird perception of the world. She lives as a farm dog now, but only allows one person near her. She simply can't tolerate anyone else but my sister in law come near her. anyone else (but me) can't go near her or they are in deep trouble. Not sure why. The vet said she was healthy and her live was loving and she was raised healthy and happy. Totally not the happy laid back pup i was expecting.

when it became a problem I searched up the breeder and it turns out he had a huge law suit against him!! He was selling back yard breeder puppies at high costs with false papers! he also would take deposits to sell more puppies than he actually had and wouldn't refund them. I was lucky I even got a puppy. 

In the end though it cost me tons of money, which for being on disability is really hard. I found the guy on the web and had the puppy shipped to me, much the same way you did. In the end we both got taken. 

Be happy you got your money back and won't have your heart potentially broken due to possible future health concerns or personality clashes.
I'm glad it all worked out for you. This site is helping me out a lot, maybe it will help you in the future.

How to tell a good breeder website from a bad one | Ruffly Speaking


----------



## Beaches

Excellent article Ellis! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Mfmst

What an excellent article! That link should be part of our Buying a Puppy Safely thread. Thank you Ellis! I am very sorry about the service dog experience that prompted you to share it, though.


----------



## mantlady

Quick update on my puppy from this breeder- my vet thought he would mature at 30-35 lb, as he was another small 10 week old at 4.6 lb. Well, he's 30 lb now at 5 months 2 weeks, and fit and healthy. He must have been reading the Butterpants threads because he steals things, but he's really smart and otherwise good and SO easily trained  (he's my first poodle, so none of you will be surprised at that)
He has made it possible for me the older arthritic to JOG (a little) and I've lost some weight...enforced activity. He gets in the bathtub with me (as in if I don't want him in there I have to shut him out of the bathroom) but won't get in the pond (too cold). 
So glad to be in the poodle world!


----------



## Gryphon

Hi Smia:
I am wondering if there is a follow up to your saga--preferably one with a happy ending. The take-away for all of us is that Blue Willow does not show their dogs, and they don't list any specifics on health testing on their website.
Also, I am sure that other forum members can chime in here, I thought there was new legislature about (not) shipping puppies sight unseen.
I hope you have found a reputable breeder who is doing the appropriate and necessary health testing, is showing their dogs (as a way to confirm their personalities and confirmation) and who is getting to know prospective "puppy parents" before the puppy is sent to a new home.
I am sure that poodle forum would be delighted to hear that you have found a beautiful standard puppy from a respected breeder. If that is the case, we await the pictures!


----------

