# Draco saw an internal medicine specialist.



## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

Draco is absolutely beautiful! He looks so healthy. I hope you figure out this problem.

Have your vets tried a trial of prednisone? That is what is usually prescribed for IBD. It would be interesting to see if it helped.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

It makes me so sad your beautiful boy is having health problems  I hope the added medication will help him for a long time.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Awwww! He's such a happy looking boy, it makes me sad to think he has anything wrong! Sincerely hope they find out what it is, and a solution!!!


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

> Have your vets tried a trial of prednisone? That is what is usually prescribed for IBD. It would be interesting to see if it helped.


No, we haven't tried pred yet, and I really don't think its IBD. Since the ultrasound showed no signs of inflammation I don't think steroids are a fix yet. Thanks though.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Poor thing I hope you can find out what is going on and get him treated. I suffer from GERD and it is not fun at all. Tums or any of the fast acting antacids no longer work for me as well as the Famotidine. The Prilosec does seem to help a lot though so hopefully it does for him too. I have noticed I need to take more now for it to help. I get what you mean about giving him pills. Killa will no longer take any type a treat or food out of my hand because I've had to shove pills down her throat so often. I finally got her to take her pill with the allergy formula pill pockets. I still have to throw it on the ground away from me but it's better than the alternative.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Best of luck, hon. It's sounds like he's in good hands.

I've got to put a couple of pills a day down Tonka's throat. They get so they take it like the big boys that they are. Not happy... but resigned.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

I tried everything on the planet to disguise pills, soft cheese, dampened bread squished around the pill, peanut butter, pill pockets, you name it, I tried it......then a friend suggested liverwurst/braunschweiger. It is soft and smelly, and molds around the pill. Iris just sucks it down without even questioning. I tried a variety of things for YEARS! 

I take the pills out of the bottle the night before and set them on a little dish as hearing pills rattle in the bottle & sends her running away. Funny girl.

Just how tall is Draco and how much does he weigh? Maybe the vet is unaccustomed to how thin a poodle can be and still be a healthy weight. I have had people accuse me of not feeding Iris well when they see her skinny little self in her summer short hairdo. 

He is such a georgeous boy and I hope you sort out his digestive issues soon.

Keep us updated. VQ

You might consider this food.....Canine Caviar. it is an interesting food which I helped my neighbor find for her Bichon, who has horrible allergies as well as a continuous upset tummy. It is working well for her. 

http://www.caninecaviar.com/ph-level/

My friends who work at the store where I used to work have been to a recent seminar given by the person who started the company. They have had great results recommending it for dogs with digestive issues. Foods are a limited ingredient diet and an alkaline based food and there are several different choices of proteins. Maybe worth a try. Looks like their website offers a free small bag to try out!

Best of luck


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

I had a similar problem with Grace at about 2 Y/o. Her empty stomach was the cause. I give her a nightly treat as we retire to bed. one whole raw chicken neck is the favored one. Fixed the problem for this last year.
Eric


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

There is a particular brand of food that did that to my last dog, and I've heard and read of it affecting many other dogs the same way...

I know dogs are not humans, but have some particular knowledge where the Prilosecs of the world and other antacids did nothing, but the gastroenterologist prescribing pancreatic enzymes with each meal helped solve some real problems. Sometimes insufficient digestive enzymes can masquerade at least in humans as too much digestive acid. No idea if that happens in dogs.

IBD can mean inflammatory bowel disease, for which steroids are sometimes/often prescribed, or irritable bowel disease, for which they are not. Guessing you are trying to rule out inflammatory?

All good thoughts for you and your gorgeous Draco. Everyone wants him hale and hearty!


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## catsaqqara (May 20, 2011)

It wouldn't hurt to take a look at this, it might give you some ideas about additional treatment to consider or testing that you might not have done yet.

Diagnosing Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease (GERD) in Pets

And for the humans, a couple articles from functional medicine Dr's about the root causes of acid reflux that are often not tested for conventionally and some remedies.

Dr Mercola- Natural Remedies for the Treatment of Acid Reflux and Ulcers

Dr Axe- What Causes Acid Reflux? Learn How to Remedy - Dr. Axe


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Thank you everyone for the good thoughts and ideas. They mean alot to us. 
Yes, the doctor is looking into inflammatory bowel disease, but the ultrasound mostly ruled that out. The blood tests will put it to rest or not. 

I have tried the liver sausage before, and it was a joke. Draco basically did this to the pills hidden in it.. :aetsch: He will not gobble down anything and will take tiny bites, tear it apart and always suspicious. The bigger the item (like a ball of sausage or even the pill pockets) the more it has to be inspected before eaten. He is fantastic about being pilled every morning, but I don't like it. Also, my mother watches him for us when we go away and she is not as comfortable (or skilled) pilling her baby grand-dog. 

I will look into some food changes. I finally found a food and combination that he actually Likes though! 

Poor boy was sick this morning again. Seems to be feeling better after some carafate and eating (at least not huffing sick), but quieter than normal. I have to wait until Monday to order the new meds, but I should have them pretty quickly. Again, thanks everyone!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I HIGHLY recommend Dr. Dodds' Nutriscan test. If he has food senstivities, you will be able to choose a high quality food (not an rx food) that has only the ingredients he can tolerate. The results from the Nutriscan test are very accurate in my experience. A much better approach than just blindly trying an rx hypoallergenic diet or even a otc limited ingredient diet (without knowing which ingredients to avoid).


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

bigpoodleperson said:


> Thank you everyone for the good thoughts and ideas. They mean alot to us.
> Yes, the doctor is looking into inflammatory bowel disease, but the ultrasound mostly ruled that out. The blood tests will put it to rest or not.
> 
> I have tried the liver sausage before, and it was a joke. Draco basically did this to the pills hidden in it.. :aetsch: He will not gobble down anything and will take tiny bites, tear it apart and always suspicious. The bigger the item (like a ball of sausage or even the pill pockets) the more it has to be inspected before eaten. He is fantastic about being pilled every morning, but I don't like it. Also, my mother watches him for us when we go away and she is not as comfortable (or skilled) pilling her baby grand-dog.
> ...


That's so interesting! I didn't realize you could rule out IBD with bloodwork. I was under the impression from an internal vet specialist i saw once that a biopsy was the only way to unequivocally rule it out.

Have you tried slippery elm at all?


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

I don't think that we can completely rule out IBD with the test, but between the results of that and the negative ultrasound I'm thinking we can put it at the bottom of the list. 
Gastrointestinal Laboratory - Texas A&M Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences

I totally think it is GERD/reflux as everything fits for that. I know that beef sets him off if in high doses. Like if he has a marrow bone, or we give him some left over steak. I do make a homemade mixture to add to his food everyday that includes some ground beef and that doesn't bother him. I will definitely look into the Nutriscan test though. 
I went to the website of the Canine Caviar food that Viking recommended, and I really like the look of it. I found a place near me that sells it too, and I will probably put him on that for now.

I have never tried slippery elm as I am not really up on the holistic supplements. Is it a powder? Liquid?


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

bigpoodleperson said:


> I don't think that we can completely rule out IBD with the test, but between the results of that and the negative ultrasound I'm thinking we can put it at the bottom of the list.
> Gastrointestinal Laboratory - Texas A&M Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences
> 
> I totally think it is GERD/reflux as everything fits for that. I know that beef sets him off if in high doses. Like if he has a marrow bone, or we give him some left over steak. I do make a homemade mixture to add to his food everyday that includes some ground beef and that doesn't bother him. I will definitely look into the Nutriscan test though.
> ...


Slippery elm is commonly used for IBS and IBD and other GI issues in people and its often used in dogs as well. It is a powder and it coats the GI tract - it becomes almost mucous like. You mix the powder with boiling water and then can mix it with some broth or syringe it to them if you need to. It's incredibly helpful for acute GI episodes (can make the difference between a dog being hospitalized or not) and for managing long term issues. It is one of the most important drugs I keep in my medicine cabinet! 

SLIPPERY ELM: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions and Warnings - WebMD

Slippery elm | University of Maryland Medical Center

I have this saved on a word document - I don't have the source to the original website:

Slippery Soup™ Preparation and Administration: You can find the herb in a dry powder form in capsules, as dried leaf in tea bags, or as loose dried leaf in the “bulk” products section of many health food stores. Any of these forms will do. Do not use the tincture (which already comes as a liquid in a dropper bottle). It may help in a few cases but it will not have all the healing physical properties of the brewed tea. The same goes for mixing the dried herb directly into the food. It will not give all the benefits of the brewed tea.

1. Simple Tea Method. You’ll prepare this medication just like a tea you might drink yourself. First, put a heaping teaspoon of dried herb in a coffee mug, and add 8-12 oz of boiling water or diluted broth. Allow to cool. If using capsules, open them up, discarding the shells, and note that it may take a bit less to get good results.

2. Long-Brew Method. To get more out of your supply or to create a thicker medicine use the same amounts of herb and water listed above and simmer for 10-20 minutes.

3. The resultant liquid, once cooled, should be somewhat thicker than water. If it is as thin as water double the dry herb amount next time, or try the long-brew method. If it is thick like jelly, that’s fine. You can use half of the dosages listed below. Do not worry about any loose herb in the liquid. It does not have to be filtered out. This infusion or decoction will keep for about 5 days in the fridge.

4. Add the liquid to the food at mealtimes, or add to the water bowl, or give as a treat. The goal is 4 times per day, but even once daily will provide some relief. I hate to force feed anything. But this is one treatment that is probably worth it if you must. If force feeding is your only choice use the stove top brewing method and aim for a thicker, jellylike consistency so you can administer less physical amount for the same beneficial effect.

5. Palatability Tricks. To give Slippery Soup™ as a treat (my preferred way!) you can do several things. You can mix the liquid 50/50 with broth, soup, a favorite canned food, milk, tuna juice, or baby food. It may not smell great to you, but these soups are highly appreciated by pets! You can also add it to yogurt or cottage cheese if dairy is not an issue.

6. Dosages.

Cats and Dogs under 25 lbs 1-2 Tablespoons

Dogs 25-50 lbs 2-4 Tablespoons

Dogs 50 lbs and up ¼ to ½ cup

Epilogue I. Slippery Elm is a very safe herb. It can literally be a life saver by preventing dehydration from continued vomiting or diarrhea. It is virtually impossible to overdose, and it can be used for extended periods of time. However, if you find your pet needs this treatment for several weeks and the symptoms still reappear when you attempt to wean off or discontinue, this is a sign of significant chronic disease and you should seek professional veterinary care.

Epilogue II. These first aid guidelines are solid recommendations for humans as well. This includes the Slippery Elm information. You can count human adults as “Dogs 50 lbs and up” for dosing.


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## jcris (Feb 19, 2015)

Draco looks like a wonderful companion !
I'm afraid I don't have any advise but can sure feel your frustration . I can only hope Draco is not in pain and at least some resolution will emerge. 
My best to you and Draco,
Jcris


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Oh dear...Poor Draco. I'm so sorry he and you are dealing with this and hope some combination of treatments perhaps or diet change will help him. 

Jose` was at one time suspected of having acid reflux. Then another vet gave me a 2nd opinion and did not think it was that because he wasn't throwing up. But his breath was enough to clear a stadium. He was also on Prilosec for almost a year, then digestive enzymes you buy in a little jar...powder form. Nothing helped. Then I put him on a raw food diet, including RAW GREEN TRIPE...every day. It was like a miracle. Talk about probiotics and all kinds of healthy stuff...in natural form so it's not processed. That and the other raw food has made a big difference in his health over all. I don't know if it's a good idea or not for Draco...just wanted to tell my story about Jose`. 

You are such a good doggie mom to be following through with this medical detective work...trying a few approaches. I do hope the best outcome with this for him. It does not sound good. I think those articles are most insightful that were posted Catsaqqara. Best wishes for a viable treatment.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

bigpoodleperson said:


> I don't think that we can completely rule out IBD with the test, but between the results of that and the negative ultrasound I'm thinking we can put it at the bottom of the list.
> Gastrointestinal Laboratory - Texas A&M Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences
> 
> I totally think it is GERD/reflux as everything fits for that. I know that beef sets him off if in high doses. Like if he has a marrow bone, or we give him some left over steak. I do make a homemade mixture to add to his food everyday that includes some ground beef and that doesn't bother him. I will definitely look into the Nutriscan test though.
> ...


I am glad you like the idea of trying Canine Caviar. It sure would be an interesting formula to try. I did notice on their web site that they recommend switching right over to the new food rather han a gradual change over. My neighbor is already noticing a difference in her Bichon in only a week on this food. Let us know how everything works out. We will send prayers for your boy.

Viking Queen and the Lovely Miss Iris


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Just complaining a little bit about my poor boy being sick. The past 3 mornings he has not wanted to eat his breakfast, Im assuming because of nausea. We just got and started the new medication last night, and Draco Loves the flavored tablets! He ate the flavored medication this morning with gusto, but when I fed him he just stands there and looks at it and then walks away. I doctor it up every morning, and last week he was eating pretty consistently. This week he doesn't care for it. The food then usually sits all day, and then he doesn't want to eat it because its soggy and old. Last night at dinner I threw away the old stuff and put in plain dry kibble and he seriously ate it faster than I've ever seen him eat. 

I am going to try and get the new food today. I went this weekend to a store that online said carried it, but they didn't. I haven't had a chance to buy it since. He really does seem to love the flavor of the brands I have him on now, but just alot of times doesn't feel well enough to eat. He is a little huffy with acid again this morning.

Just wish I could make him feel better.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

I am so sorry he is still struggling with this.....it is so very hard to watch a kiddo who doesn't feel well. Hope you can locate the food soon....I know these newer foods can be hard to find if you are not in a big city. I am not sure where you are located.

Most pet food stores which are not the big box stores place their food orders on a weekly basis and get the food in from the wholesalers a few days later. The store I worked in we placed orders on Mondays from one wholesaler and got the food order on Weds, just 2 days later. Another supplier we ordered from on Tues and got the orders on friday. Maybe you can call around and find a store owner or manager who can order it for you. They typically can order a bag or two a time and don't have to get a huge quantity.......or you could order online.

I think it's just a matter of finding what he likes and what agrees with him. My dog would not like a food which sat and got soggy either. You are trying your best and will get it sorted out soon. 

Please let us know Draco's progress.

(((Hugs))) for you both. Cathy


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

I am sorry that it is hard to find the right mix of food for Draco. If you are putting wet food, or kibble soaked to make it soft, it is probably best to pick it up after a few hours. Only a chow hound would eat it after that and I am not sure it would be good for the dog anyway.

I can sympathize with your problems. If Draco continues to not eat well, you still might want to consider a trial of Prednisone. I know you did an ultrasound and feel that isn't the problem, and you do not want to do an invasive biopsy test, but IBD can also be tentatively identified by seeing how they react to prednisone. I had a dog that I had to give a small amount of Pred every other day to keep her eating. She too got an upset stomach and threw up occasionally. Without doing a biopsy, we figured it was IBD because she did respond to the Pred. If we stopped the Pred, she would stop eating.

I hope you find a food that works for Draco and that he is feeling much better soon.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

MiniPoo said:


> IBD can also be tentatively identified by seeing how they react to prednisone. I had a dog that I had to give a small amount of Pred every other day to keep her eating. She too got an upset stomach and threw up occasionally. Without doing a biopsy, we figured it was IBD because she did respond to the Pred. If we stopped the Pred, she would stop eating.
> 
> I hope you find a food that works for Draco and that he is feeling much better soon.


The problem with diagnosing IBD by reaction to prednisone is that...everyone eats more on prednisone!!!!


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## Motion (Oct 27, 2015)

So true! Merlyn has been on Prednisone for just over a year now and it did get him eating, but I feel that the side-effects of longterm use of any steroid are severe enough that I wouldn't rely on it unless it was absolutely necessary. For Merlyn as a 13.5 year old it is too hard to determine if he can safely come off of Prednisone with out a flair-up so he stays on. For a younger dog that had other options, I would exhaust those before using a steroid. 

Green Tripe is really great for picky dogs, and it has a ton of pre and probiotics which are super important for dogs with tummy problems. If you haven't tried it maybe talk with your vet and see if they think it might help? I haven't met many dogs that will turn down green tripe especially in freeze dried form!


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## MiniPoo (Mar 6, 2014)

CharismaticMillie said:


> The problem with diagnosing IBD by reaction to prednisone is that...everyone eats more on prednisone!!!!


If a very small dose (1.5 mg) every other day helps one of my dogs and nothing else I tried helps, then I will go with an unofficial diagnosis of IBD and go with that treatment. That was our decision and I do not regret it. She lived a good life until 13-1/2 years. This might not be the route for others but it is one I tried and it worked for us.


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## Motion (Oct 27, 2015)

I think that's really the key, MiniPoo, Prednisone can help with a lot of different problems and even if it means relying on an unofficial diagnosis that can be better than waiting and continuing to test when a dog is suffering. However, because it covers up the symptoms it becomes very difficult to get a diagnosis after starting. It saved Merlyn's life and we have to do what we can to make sure our dogs are as healthy and happy as possible. I still wouldn't start prednisone when there are other options, but for those of us that run out of other choices or time it is amazingly helpful.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

MiniPoo said:


> If a very small dose (1.5 mg) every other day helps one of my dogs and nothing else I tried helps, then I will go with an unofficial diagnosis of IBD and go with that treatment. That was our decision and I do not regret it. She lived a good life until 13-1/2 years. This might not be the route for others but it is one I tried and it worked for us.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anything about the validity of your dog's diagnosis of IBD. I believe what happens in actuality is that when symptoms point to IBD and the owner doesn't want to do the biopsy (and I think most people don't - understandably as its very invasive), generally vets will advise to just go ahead and start treatment for IBD which does include the use of prednisone. And prednisone will ALWAYS increase hunger.

I think that's an important distinction to make because if responding to prednisone by eating more was the criteria used to unofficially diagnose IBD, we'd have a lot of healthy dogs who do not have IBD being diagnosed. And you don't want owners of picky eaters to start asking for prednisone for their otherwise healthy dogs, as it does have long term effects that, for a dog with IBD the negatives are worth the positives of using the drug, but for a simply picky eater, it's probably not going to have the same long term trade off of risk versus benefit.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

MiniPoo said:


> If a very small dose (1.5 mg) every other day helps one of my dogs and nothing else I tried helps, then I will go with an unofficial diagnosis of IBD and go with that treatment. That was our decision and I do not regret it. She lived a good life until 13-1/2 years. This might not be the route for others but it is one I tried and it worked for us.



I am sorry but I feel compelled to add that based upon a presumptive diagnosis of IBD, my Taylee, age 13 was put on steroids, and five days later she had pancreatitis, which she ultimately died from. Biopsy confirmed that she indeed had IBD, and that the pancreatitis was steroid induced. I felt that she was robbed of time because other than a slightly low calcium level she was asymptomatic on the IBD at the time.


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

bigpoodleperson said:


> Just complaining a little bit about my poor boy being sick. The past 3 mornings he has not wanted to eat his breakfast, Im assuming because of nausea. We just got and started the new medication last night, and Draco Loves the flavored tablets! He ate the flavored medication this morning with gusto, but when I fed him he just stands there and looks at it and then walks away. I doctor it up every morning, and last week he was eating pretty consistently. This week he doesn't care for it. The food then usually sits all day, and then he doesn't want to eat it because its soggy and old. Last night at dinner I threw away the old stuff and put in plain dry kibble and he seriously ate it faster than I've ever seen him eat.
> 
> I am going to try and get the new food today. I went this weekend to a store that online said carried it, but they didn't. I haven't had a chance to buy it since. He really does seem to love the flavor of the brands I have him on now, but just alot of times doesn't feel well enough to eat. He is a little huffy with acid again this morning.
> 
> Just wish I could make him feel better.




Just now reading this. I'm so sorry you and Draco are going through this. :-(
I pray that you can get this figured out really soon. He's such a beautiful boy, and in the pictures, he looks so happy. ((hugs)) to you both. ❤


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## janet6567 (Mar 11, 2014)

Draco is such a beautiful boy. I do hope you and the doctors can figure out what is going on. Sending good thoughts your way.


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

Again, thank you everyone for the good thoughts and vibes! He still has been too nauseous in the mornings to eat his breakfast, but does want to eat later in the day. I finally got the new food yesterday, and he does like it. Too early obviously to see if it helps. Draco loves the new meds and eats them great, but we haven't noticed a difference yet either.

I am seriously considering doing and endoscopy soon and IBD testing. I personally won't start him on steroids without a biopsy. I totally understand why you did though Minipoo. 

We are getting ready to go for a long walk in this beautiful weather!


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