# Scare at training class



## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

We had a scare at training class. I took my Boston Terrier Francis to training class. There were five dogs, including Francis. This was our second week. One woman had two 150 pound Anatolian Shepherds with her. One dog was in a down/stay in the corner while she worked with the other shepherd.

We were doing an exercise and the Anatolian Shepherd lunged for Francis, barking snarling and wanting to kill her. The owner did everything right, and got her dog under control before Francis was bitten. Meanwhile, her other Anatolian Shepherd broke her down/stay and ran around the room barking and growling. 

Fortunately, Francis wasn't hurt. The other dogs in class were freaked out.
The teacher grabbed the loose shepherd's lead. The aggressive dog was kicked out of class and put in another room.

Francis was terrified, but I decided it was best to sit with her in a corner and cuddle her for a bit, and then work on sit/stay. We continued the class and I am proud to say, Francis was a rock star. 

She learned how to lie down on command, which is something I've been struggling with. Honestly, needing help training down was the only reason I took this class. She did down/stay. Sit/stay. Sit for petting (which is sooooo hard) Heel and recall. 

Francis was able to shake off the near miss, calm down, and refocus her attention. I was really proud of her. 

I was also proud of the owner who's dog flipped out. She got her dog away from mine. Her lightning quick reflexes saved Francis from injury. She recognized that her dog was having a bad day and ejected him from class gracefully. She worked with her other huge dog who had good focus and attention from that point on.

The teacher also was spot on with her reaction, too. She got everyone to take a breath, reset, and focus. Class was great from that point on. 

Francis also learned to be wary of giant dogs, which is fine with me. Not aggressive, not lunging, barking, but standoffish and looking to me for protection and assistance. Above all else, I am glad I didn't leave class. Francis learned that I am there for her and I will help her. She also got to learn that bad things happen sometimes. Stop, freak out, shake it off and keep going forward.


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## Dechi (Aug 22, 2015)

Ohhh, I am glad Francis wasn't hurt ! I love those little boston terriers, they're one of my favorite breeds, I've had 4 of them.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Francis is a delightful little clown. She's also incredibly athletic and agility is in her future, no doubt. My job now is teaching her that a bold leap from the sofa to the coffee table is not an agility exercise. Francis is a wild child, much more wild than Noelle. She bounces around like a ball in a pinball machine when she's keyed up. But, she's adorable and sweet. 

On the way to training class, she fell asleep in the car. She woke up, barked and looked at me like, OMG, where am I? Silly Francis. So glad she's OK.


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## zooeysmom (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm so glad she's okay! Even though the owner was quick in her response, she had no business bringing a huge aggressive dog to a class, IMHO. I would have been furious. 

I just adore Bostons and Francis is such a pretty one


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Wow, that is scary - thank goodness she recovered well from it!
But what may I ask was the woman doing with two large dogs in class? I have taken a lot of classes, and never seen more than one dog to a handler. Sometimes two people come with one dog, but never seen the opposite!
But, thank you, I was debating if Trulee should take a small dog class, or a probably better puppy class, and you have just made up my mind!


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Since it was my second class, I was surprised two dogs one handler was allowed, too. I think the second dog was waiting for the following class to start? Given the behavior of dog number two, who was way better trained than dog number one, I think that was the case.

Dog number one and Francis will never be in range again. I will be on the far side of the room. The handler will keep her dog away from Francis. She appologized a zillion times, and took responsibility, and did not blame me or Francis.

Yes, I would prefer a class where big dogs are in a different room, but this class isn't set up that way. Francis loves class, nonetheless and is doing great. Next week I will be more proactive about safety. If an exercise seems risky, I will decline. I think I would be more angry if the handler blamed me. Instead I am still freaking out over such a near miss, and trying to calm down.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

Thank goodness She's ok! But like everyone else I'm wondering why she was trying to handle two dogs ...........why in world didn't she have a crate with her? There is always that chance that a dog won't hold a down stay for some reason........no matter how well trained they are!!


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I had the same thought. Why is this huge dog unattended? It was not the lose dog that threatened Francis. That dog reacted to the chaos and flipped out for a minute, but reset instantly. In fact, Francis and I did the whole class a few feet from dog number two and had no issues. I will not let Francis be within 50 feet of dog number one. Frankly, no dog should right now. Hopefully next week the handler, who is obviously experienced, will have a better plan. My plan is to stay far away. Not going back has crossed my mind, but Francis loves class. I will just do a better job of protecting her. Still, that was too close.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Click-N-Treat said:


> I had the same thought. Why is this huge dog unattended? It was not the lose dog that threatened Francis. That dog reacted to the chaos and flipped out for a minute, but reset instantly. In fact, Francis and I did the whole class a few feet from dog number two and had no issues. I will not let Francis be within 50 feet of dog number one. Frankly, no dog should right now. Hopefully next week the handler, who is obviously experienced, will have a better plan. My plan is to stay far away. Not going back has crossed my mind, but Francis loves class. I will just do a better job of protecting her. Still, that was too close.



The second dog should have been crated if it was waiting for the next class! You said it broke it's stay and started running around barking - it could of easily joined in the attack, and then what would the handler have done!
I would call and talk to the Trainer about these issues! Dog number one should not be in a class with other dogs at this point!


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I will call the trainer. TP, I hadn't thought about what would have happened if dog number two went for Francis. And now I am shaking inside.


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Oh my gosh, how scary for you and Francis! I'm SO thankful she didn't get hurt!


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Next class you going to have to make sure that any residual tension doesn't travel down the leash to Francis. Glad the shepherd's owner and the instructor were quick.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I am glad you are all okay, however at my classes the second dog would have been in a crate, not on a down stay in a corner of the room. Even my two dogs are confined when I am not working with them. Javelin has learned his crate manners by being so confined and Lily has the right to hang out behind the desk where people sign in.

I think the woman with the two anatolians should either bring a crate for the dog that isn't working or bring one dog at a time to class.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I emailed the training club and got a response this morning. My email will be forwarded to the trainer. LilyCD I am in 100% agreement, the other dog needs to be crated, or in a different room during class.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

lily cd re said:


> I am glad you are all okay, however at my classes the second dog would have been in a crate, not on a down stay in a corner of the room. Even my two dogs are confined when I am not working with them. Javelin has learned his crate manners by being so confined and Lily has the right to hang out behind the desk where people sign in.
> 
> I think the woman with the two anatolians should either bring a crate for the dog that isn't working or bring one dog at a time to class.



I also think that dog number one does not belong in a class at this point - if they want to desensitize a DA dog, let them do it in private lessons with the dog's of the trainer or other staff.
The dogs of other class members do not deserve to be in an environment where they sense possible attack, and where all of the handlers are on edge, let alone allow any possibility of an additional attack.
If it were me, the school would either be removing the dog from the class or they would be refunding my money.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I agree with you TP. That's why I emailed the trainer with my concerns. If this dog bit my dog, Francis would die, and I made that very clear in my email. Hopefully the aggressive dog is removed from class. It really does put all of our dogs at risk.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Here is the description from the breed standard at AKC of temperament for the Anatolian shepherd. "Temperament: Alert and intelligent, calm and observant. Instinctively protective, he is courageous and highly adaptable. He is very loyal and responsive. Highly territorial, he is a natural guard. Reserve around strangers and off its territory is acceptable. Responsiveness with animation is not characteristic of the breed. Overhandling would be discouraged." And from Wikipedia: "The Anatolian Shepherd dog was developed to be independent and forceful, responsible for guarding its master's flocks without human assistance or direction. These traits make it challenging as a pet; owners of dogs of this breed must socialize the dogs to turn them into appropriate companions. They are intelligent and can learn quickly but might choose not to obey. According to Turkish shepherds, three Anatolian Shepherd Dogs are capable of overcoming a pack of wolves and injuring one or two of them. These dogs like to roam, as they were bred to travel with their herd and to leave the herd to go hunt for predators before the predators could attack the flock. Therefore, it is recommended to microchip and tag pets.
The Anatolian Shepherd is not recommended for life in small quarters. They do well with other animals, including cats if they are introduced while still a puppy and have their own space. They mature between 18–30 months. Due to their history, both puppies and adults seem to have little interest in fetching. Rather, they prefer to run and sometimes swim.
Presence of some Anatolian shepherd genes in Alaskan huskies positively correlates with husky work ethic."

They are not easy dogs for inexperienced owners. most people who live near me don't have the space for them and I don't quite know why a suburbanite would keep one, but certainly understand why someone with livestock would value them. I would assume that the owner of the two dogs at this class understands these dogs since she has two. When I first started training Lily for novice there was one at the class I often went to. We just gave it wide berth and the instructor of the class was very attentive to everyone's safety. I will confess to some trepidation the first time I saw it and the instructor suggested to me that since Lily might be mistaken for a sheep that should be guarded I should give them plenty of space (for my safety). I never saw anything bad happen with it since the handler had plenty of experience with the breed. I don't think I've ever actually seen one in a trial though.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

The trainer emailed me. The dog aggressive dog has been ejected from the class. Best decision for everyone, including the DA dog who needs more work in a less stimulating environment. Francis loves class and is doing super well. We'll be back.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Click-N-Treat said:


> The trainer emailed me. The dog aggressive dog has been ejected from the class. Best decision for everyone, including the DA dog who needs more work in a less stimulating environment. Francis loves class and is doing super well. We'll be back.


I am very glad that the decision to remove that dog from class has been made. As TP and you both have pointed out that dog needs a less stimulating environment. I think the instructor and the owner/handler also need to realize that there are some innate tendencies in this breed that may limit success in extinguishing that behavior.


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## Sammy the spoo (Jul 7, 2016)

While I feel bad for the owner, I think it was for the best - safety is always #1 priority! Have fun in the rest of the sessions!

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Wow, that is scary - thank goodness she recovered well from it!
> But what may I ask was the woman doing with two large dogs in class? I have taken a lot of classes, and never seen more than one dog to a handler. Sometimes two people come with one dog, but never seen the opposite!
> But, thank you, I was debating if Trulee should take a small dog class, or a probably better puppy class, and you have just made up my mind!


I don't know how classes are run where the OP takes them, but where I take classes, it's pretty common for one owner to bring multiple dogs and do back to back classes. Whoever is not in the current class waits in a crate.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I don't know how classes are run where the OP takes them, but where I take classes, it's pretty common for one owner to bring multiple dogs and do back to back classes. Whoever is not in the current class waits in a crate.


That is how we run classes at my club. If a person wants to take more than one class with different dogs the non-working dog has to stay in the car if temperatures are safe or in a crate they bring themselves in our facility if it is too hot or cold.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I just got another email from the trainer. They also have a one dog/one trainer policy. She said she spoke extensively with the handler and assured me that situation will not happen again. She is also planning on positioning Francis in the class away from large dogs. 

I'm feeling more confident that this is a well run class with a smart instructor, not some fool without a clue. I was deeply impressed with how the teacher reacted last night. Aggressive dog, gone. Loose dog, caught. Encouraged me to calm my dog. Encouraged the class to calm their dogs. Allowed everyone a moment to reset, and continued class with authority and control. She also credited me for the class, so I got my money back.

And like I said, Francis is a rock star in class. Two weeks ago, she couldn't down on command. Last week, I had to put Francis in a sit, hold my hand on her backside and lure her down with a treat. This week, I was able to get Francis to lie down just with a treat lure. She's getting it! And she likes all the snacks and attention. 

My job for the rest of the week is shaking off the stress and resetting myself. Nerves go straight down the leash, and I still feel like I ate an electric mixer. Whirrrr.


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

Yay! Now you and Francis can enjoy class!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

That instructor does sound like a rock star. She did handle things well in the time of the class and has done right by you in several ways since then. It is hard to manage a large group of dogs that are at different levels and are different sizes. When I have a large number of novice or beginner teams I spend lots of time between activities saying things like: "Remember that we are all here for you to be successful with your dog. Don't stretch their limits too far, but instead be sure to support them. Leave leashes on if you think they will be unreliable. Don't go too far away for recalls if you aren't sure they will return to you. Don't go far away at all if you think they will break a sit or down stay." I will have a new beginner class starting after Labor Day. There are two spoos in the class and the handlers are experienced folks. I don't know the others, but at least I know the poodle teams should not be a source of concerns.


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Click-N-Treat said:


> I emailed the training club and got a response this morning. My email will be forwarded to the trainer. LilyCD I am in 100% agreement, the other dog needs to be crated, or in a different room during class.


Oh I'm so glad that they responded right away to your email! That shows that they acknowledge the situation and are willing to get the problem resolved where hopefully it won't happen again. I also agree the other dog needs to be crated or at least put elsewhere. That actually should be written in with the rest of the rules, and the trainer needs to make sure the rules are being followed very precisely. And anyone found breaking the rules could be asked to leave.


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

Click-N-Treat said:


> I just got another email from the trainer. They also have a one dog/one trainer policy. She said she spoke extensively with the handler and assured me that situation will not happen again. She is also planning on positioning Francis in the class away from large dogs.
> 
> I'm feeling more confident that this is a well run class with a smart instructor, not some fool without a clue. I was deeply impressed with how the teacher reacted last night. Aggressive dog, gone. Loose dog, caught. Encouraged me to calm my dog. Encouraged the class to calm their dogs. Allowed everyone a moment to reset, and continued class with authority and control. She also credited me for the class, so I got my money back.
> 
> ...


I should have read ahead first! Anyway, that's great! I'm so glad this is being taken care of swiftly and professionally!


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Let's play a size comparison game. Ready?

A 13 pound Boston Terrier









Is to a 150 pound Anatolian Shepherd









As a 4,000 pound allosaurus is to a human









I would not feel comfortable with an allosaurus standing next to me. So, it's not fair to expect Francis to feel comfortable around an Anatolian Shepherd. Francis and Noelle are the smallest dogs I've ever had. I'm used to a 70 pound weimaraner and a 45 pound shepherd mix. Thinking about size comparisons makes me even more grateful Francis is fine, and glad my teacher is taking things just as seriously as I am.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

It has always been my dream that dog parks, classes and such were designated small (under ten pounds) medium (10-35 pounds), and large.
Even with the designated small dog things, Timi BARELY manages at 5 3/4 pounds, and that is largely due to her long legs and speed. Trulee will never be able to be down on the ground when there are other "small" dogs around. My best hope is to take her to the dog park during off hours hoping that she and Timi can have it to themselves for a little bit. 
An 8- 25 pound "small dog" could easily kill Trulee just by running into her, not even considering the prey drive that she might insight in some of them!


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I don't know how classes are run where the OP takes them, but where I take classes, it's pretty common for one owner to bring multiple dogs and do back to back classes. Whoever is not in the current class waits in a crate.


Very common in the two places I take classes too. The other dog is always crated.

I like Swizzle to be around dogs of different sizes because it is in a well controlled environment. There is a Great Dane breeder that brings her dogs to agility. They are gentle giants and Swizzle likes all of them. He also really likes a huge Belgium dog. Some obscure type about the same height as a Malinois but a much stockier. He is always most nervous with pit bulls and German Shephards. I like that he is aware of size differences and cautious till he knows the dog but can relax around the gentle ones.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

I liked seeing how Francis didn't translate ALL large dogs are scary into her brain software. She's wary of the large dogs, but not terrified. Noelle, on the other hand, would be a basket case. She didn't like her litter mates. She didn't like the other puppies in puppy kindergarten. She plays well with Francis, but prefers people. Noelle is not a "dog" dog. Loves people of every age, size, and race. Dogs she can take or leave. Had Noelle been in that same situation, I think she would still be shrieking. Francis is much bolder.


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## Poodlemanic (Jun 27, 2016)

Awwww, little Francis! I have Bostons too, and mine would have tried to protect me. They don't know they're little. But I'm so glad Francis is okay and you're not turned off of obedience lessons.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Oh is that the cutest puppy. WOW. Here's wee Francis when we first got her.


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## Granberry (Nov 17, 2014)

Can I just say that I love your positive attitude? You found something good to say about everyone in that situation, which is getting more and more unusual in this day of internet bitching. A thankful heart is a happy heart, and it seems like you found something to be thankful for in every part of that awful episode. I bet you are a very contented person.


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