# Dog Won't Do Down



## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

What happens if you bring the treat down to her toes and then slowly pull it forward, way from her body, like an "L" shape? She won't scrunch up; most dogs will slide forward into a down...


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

She stands up or she gives up on the treat.  I tried holding her bum down a couple times, but it is hard to do while holding down the treat and having a small dog wiggle wiggle wiggle. Haha.


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

does she ever just lie down on her own without you offering a treat? if she does, maybe try naming the action, saying "down" while she's in the down and then offering a treat with praise, "goooood down."


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H14Nuf3_EmY


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

@patk might take longer but it sounds effective! Good idea! 

@Twyla thanks for the link, that's the video I first watched, hehehehe


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

I think I train with a different paradigm from many here, so take this with a grain of salt and all. :biggrin:

I didn't use physical manipulation or luring of any sort for Sugarfoot's "Down." I have never forced or molded his body into the down position or used food to bring him into the down position. I taught "down" with the "loo method." (Comes from Susan Garrett's Puppy Peaks; several of the videos featured training in the bathroom. Small, boring room, not much to see here...)

You and the dog are in the bathroom, you sitting on the floor. You have some treats, and a clicker (if you click) or your mouth ready to use your verbal click (mine is "Yesss," spoken with a particular, peculiar, flat, even tone). Your dog will run around for a while, sniffing, but eventually (eventually might be a few seconds or a few minutes later) the dog will lie down. The second he does, click (or verbal click) and toss a piece of food to the side. Yes, you want the dog to get up to get the treat.

It may take a bit more time, but eventually the dog will lie down again. Click and toss treat. It doesn't take long for a smart dog like a poodle to start "throwing" downs at you. I wouldn't name the behavior in that first session, but in a session eventually you'll say "Down" right as the dog is already offering the behavior. This is so much more efficient than the old-fashioned way of chanting "Down" while manipulating the dog into place. That way, the dog had a bunch of stimuli flying at it--what is this strange word, owner's hands doing weird stuff to me, what is going on, what does she WANT?---but in this method the dog is "thinking"--what was I doing to make that treat come? This? OH, yeah, so much this! Oh, this is called "Down"? Gonna do this when she says that.

Mind you, this kind of training is a whole way of thinking to which not everyone subscribes. It might take a bit longer to train this way (sometimes--once the dog "learns to learn" it goes right quick), but I like my results.

I have a YouTube called "100 Days of Sugarfoot" on my channel (same name as here, Quossum) which shows Sugarfoot struting his stuff after I had owned him for exactly 100 days, so you can see this training paradigm in action, if you like. 

(I don't always have time to respond to training threads, but I had a few minutes today and a mad posh to type! LOL)

--Q


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

http://youtu.be/I0ZDnrJcdm4

Link to my video! Sorry to make a second post; sometimes if I leave the window my post-in-progress disappears!

--Q


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

https://youtu.be/RpuWdJqGjzs

take heart... you are not the only one having fun... just takes time.


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## Charmed (Aug 4, 2014)

Quossum, I have seen this method in action and it is astounding how quickly the dogs catch on. I found that it was much more difficult to get the humans to buy into it. It was almost like they couldn't believe it could be so easy. Does require focus.


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## sweets (Jan 15, 2015)

My friends lab wouldn't lie down either,she would crouch but not lie, our dog trainer suggesting pushing the treat back towards her nose rather than pulling it way. It worked instantly!


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## PoodlenPrada (Aug 13, 2014)

@hollyollyc
I'm having this same trouble currently. Phoenix is doing so well with all of his other commands but for some reason the "down" command just isn't registering. My trainer is using the same one you described, and Phoenix's response is the same as Jazmin's. If you find something else that works please share :act-up:

@Quossum
Thank you for the post and link, I'm definitely going to try this starting tomorrow.


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## Naira (Jan 9, 2015)

I agree with "catching" the behavior. you will be surprised how quickly poodles will catch on to this. I caught so many behaviors with my toy poodle and she would catch on literally after 2 repetitions


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

PoodlenPrada said:


> @hollyollyc
> I'm having this same trouble currently. Phoenix is doing so well with all of his other commands but for some reason the "down" command just isn't registering. My trainer is using the same one you described, and Phoenix's response is the same as Jazmin's. If you find something else that works please share :act-up:
> 
> @Quossum
> Thank you for the post and link, I'm definitely going to try this starting tomorrow.


So, I flippin' love you guys. I finally got her to lay down and she is catching on!! The next step is to see if she does it with distractions a.k.a. at obedience class (psshhh, who needs class when you have Poodle loving friends with infinite wisdom). @PoodlenPrada What worked was the "catching" behavior like people suggested, but not just by itself. It literally took only 3 times of catching her in a down (like what Naira said) and saying down, yes, good down and giving her a treat. I had a toy she was playing with and I threw it and when she came back with the toy, I put her in a sit and then tried luring her into the down position and SHE DID IT!!! From there it was repeating the down and then I tried it in another room and she caught on, still have yet to perfect it though. So many days of trying, who knew how effective this method would be for Jazmin!!!

I think the key things that helped her finally go down is that I gave her a treat after saying down and catching the behavior, not just saying "down", "good down" over and over. Also, this is a bit far fetched, but I was training her on hard floors (at training) and carpet (at home). When I was able to get her to finally go down, it was on my sofa. I don't know if its a texture or cushiony type of thing that effected her, but maybe try your sofa? I know that even suggesting this makes me sound crazy, lol.

@Quossum, I love how you think outside the box with your boo's training. I enjoyed every second of that video and amen for understanding when you get some frustrations with training. That is definitely when I learned to take a break, haha. Kudos to that amazing backyard doggy funland! I was debating on clicker training, still trying to make a decision. 

@ twyla, Pia looks just like Jazmin! They even have the same cut and ear placement. I want herrrrrrrr. What a talented girl. Ooooo how I wish we could have play dates!

@PoodlenPrada I hope you keep us updated on your pooch's progress. I think it would be really interesting to know if the "catching" method will work for Pheonix.


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Holly thanks, I am glad you had a break through with Miss Jazmin, I seriously need some pictures of that little girl of yours she looks so sweet. 

Play dates... Miss Pia Maria and Princess Beatrice would love to, I don't think they realize how far away Jazmin is.


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## ROHAN-K9mm (Nov 20, 2011)

Maddan, my Mini Poodle had been trained to show and he had a rock solid Stand. I couldn't get him to sit for love or money. One day after class as I was talking with the trainer and he was bouncing around off lead in the training room he came up to her and sat. I clicked and she treated, tossing the treat a little distance away. He knew the clicker meant treats, so he slowly walked back to her and sat again. I clicked , she treated again and we had it! Down was impossible until I tried it on the foot of my bed where he slept. I captured it as he lay down, and it rained treats and again we had it. Congratulations on using the couch Holly. PoodlenPrada find a place where the behavior you want happens, and try to catch her doing it, mark it - with a clicker or word, and let tiny treats fall from the sky like rain. have a party. I found it easy to lure my spoos, but the Mini andToys were impossible as bending over suddenly to lure is /can be scarey for them.The other problem - not to put too fine point on it-is female anatomy. If my mini is in correct heel position and I look down I can't see him, and I am not an impressive letter in the alphabet. Get the behavior and then name it. good luck


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## Smudge (Apr 14, 2015)

I had this same problem with my sister's dog! She's pretty good with most things, but she just was NOT learning down. She'd always kind of hover in a half-squat type of thing, and when I tried to push the treat forward, she'd just get up and follow it. What I wound up doing is keeping a clicker on me at night, and whenever she lay down, I'd treat her. It was about the only thing I could think of, but it worked well for her! Down is now her go-to trick when we pull out the snacks!


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## PoodlenPrada (Aug 13, 2014)

*We did it!*

Good Lord...I almost had a heart attack trying to teach this down command over th past two weeks. Now three days after reading this post hes at 80% easily, maybe more if I count the tries where it takes him a second to think about it lol. I'm going to be so excited to show the trainers what we learned on PF.


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

so happy to hear you are having progress! I love PF for this exact reason. congratulations to you and phoenix  may she hit that 100% and I hope to see her star in a video someday.


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## JaneOnWhidbey (Nov 6, 2020)

hollyollyc said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am currently teaching Jazmin sit stay watch-me and down. She is doing great with everything but down. This is day 4 that I have been trying, but she just does not lay down. Anyone have any tips? She scrunches her body up instead of going down. What I currently do is get her interested in a big treat in a sit and have her lick at it then have her nose follow the treat as I put it slowly towards her chest between her paws and then eventually on the ground.
> 
> ...


I have a pair-Jack the spotted hyper smart poodle 35# & Miley, the 13# fawn Rescue hyper MinPin. I finally stumbled upon “down” that works. When she’s in the crate with Jack in the back of my SUV, I pay for good behavior. I held the treat outside the cage just beyond her reach & waited for her to stretch out, belly down, trying to reach the treat. I rewarded “BELLY DOWN when she first happened to do it.I named the command “Belly Down” & rewarded as soon as she approximated it. Over time, I tequired better form & also began to work in “Quiet”, saying the word in a soft calm voice. I have chained this routine into other useful behaviors and it has helped both dogs immensely.
JaneOnWhidbey


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