# Things to ask/look for when selecting a breeder



## laryenhilllvr (Jul 23, 2012)

I'm not sure why asterisks appeared, but you can disregard those...


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I am not a breeder... but I think that is too many questions.


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## TrinaBoo (Apr 3, 2012)

Breeders love to talk about their poodles. I think if you just have a good conversation with a breeder, as you would a friend you will get a good amount of answers. Just be natural! Relax too! An awesome breeder is going to stand out right away. When I went to a breeders house, we sat on the couch and played with puppies and talked away. In that 30 minutes I knew she was the right breeder.


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## laryenhilllvr (Jul 23, 2012)

Carley's Mom said:


> I am not a breeder... but I think that is too many questions.


LOL! Thank you, I didn't want to bombard him/her with questions. I think I'll prioritize what's MOST important and go from there.




TrinaBoo said:


> Breeders love to talk about their poodles. I think if you just have a good conversation with a breeder, as you would a friend you will get a good amount of answers. Just be natural! Relax too! An awesome breeder is going to stand out right away. When I went to a breeders house, we sat on the couch and played with puppies and talked away. In that 30 minutes I knew she was the right breeder.


Will do! As I mentioned earlier Ill prioritize and only ask *a few* of the most important questions. I think you're right about clicking with the right breeder, I'm hoping I find someone like that.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Good Luck! When I was looking at breeders, first I checked out their website, then sent a short e-mail and then called a few. When I picked the one I wanted to work with I did a home visit.

I did not know about this forum at the time.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

That is quite a list! I would ask four or five in an email, and at that time ask when might be a good time to call, and ask a few more in the phone call.

I do not know if they ever breed black, but if I were looking at a toy, the first place I'd be headed would be Smash Poodles. Perfect, shrunk down Standards. Fabulous conformation. I have never investigated health testing, etc., but their structure cannot be beat.


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## laryenhilllvr (Jul 23, 2012)

Carley's Mom said:


> Good Luck! When I was looking at breeders, first I checked out their website, then sent a short e-mail and then called a few. When I picked the one I wanted to work with I did a home visit.
> 
> I did not know about this forum at the time.


That sounds like a good plan, not to mention I won't come across as overbearing lol. I have a little bit of time to select the best breeder for me as I don't plan to actually take my puppy home until late spring/early summer of 2014.



ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> That is quite a list! I would ask four or five in an email, and at that time ask when might be a good time to call, and ask a few more in the phone call.
> 
> I do not know if they ever breed black, but if I were looking at a toy, the first place I'd be headed would be Smash Poodles. Perfect, shrunk down Standards. Fabulous conformation. I have never investigated health testing, etc., but their structure cannot be beat.


Lol, I know! Others have suggested a similar method, so I think I'll do that. I'll look into smash poodles, they sound great from you're description. I'm in love with standards, but I like the portability and lower space requirements of the tots (ill be in nyc when I get a puppy). I was also thinking of calling the poodle club of America and getting a few recommendations from them, although I'm not sure if they are a political organization recommending certain breeders more than others...I sure hope not. Are you familiar with them?


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## laryenhilllvr (Jul 23, 2012)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> That is quite a list! I would ask four or five in an email, and at that time ask when might be a good time to call, and ask a few more in the phone call.
> 
> I do not know if they ever breed black, but if I were looking at a toy, the first place I'd be headed would be Smash Poodles. Perfect, shrunk down Standards. Fabulous conformation. I have never investigated health testing, etc., but their structure cannot be beat.


Umm is this who you are talking about? Smash Poodles | World famous toy poodles.

The non-English website definitely threw me off, but the poodle on the front page is divine! I think it may be time for google translate lol.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

That is them. One of the best handlers in the world is a big part of Smash and I am sure he has litters in the US too. His name is Kaz, and I wish I could tell you his last name, but he is a bit of an enigma, so is something like Cher or Madonna and everyone knows him by his first name. If you get in touch with them, and ask if Kaz has litters in the US, they will likely lead you to him.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Kaz Hosaka...

There was a button on the page when I loaded it to translate the entire site.


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## laryenhilllvr (Jul 23, 2012)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> That is them. One of the best handlers in the world is a big part of Smash and I am sure he has litters in the US too. His name is Kaz, and I wish I could tell you his last name, but he is a bit of an enigma, so is something like Cher or Madonna and everyone knows him by his first name. If you get in touch with them, and ask if Kaz has litters in the US, they will likely lead you to him.


Thanks a million!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I think all your questions are things I would want to know, but I wouldn't come out and bombard them with that many questions. Most of those questions you can figure out yourself just by chatting a couple times and checking out their website (if they have one). You are thinking all the right things, but keep in mind that not many breeders are going to be able to meet all of our wishes. The most important things to look at are health and personality then looks. 

With toys and minis, I would put special emphasis on whether they show their dogs (much more so than standards) because there are hoardes of really poor conformation toys and minis with long bodies and short legs. That would be fine for a pet, but if I was paying big money for a toy, I would want a good representation of the breed. Some breeders purposefully breed a toy male to a mini female because you get more puppies that way. A toy or mini that is a shrunk down version of a standard are absolutely stunning little dogs! I met my first high quality toys at a dog show and was floored at the difference between them and most of the toys and minis around.

Would you be willing to take an oversized toy? Many are. The slightly oversized ones tend to be healthier, too. My one thing about toys is to avoid the teeny weeny ones. They have too many health issues. Whether small or large, you want a robust pet. 

I disagree with some members in that I don't worry too much if I don't like the breeder personally. Lots of doggy people are "a little different". The breeder does not have to be your best friend, they just have to have nice dogs that they care about.

Those smash toy poodles are gorgeous, Arreau!! Since Larven has lots of time, it might work out to wait for one of those! On the website they list his name as Kaz Hosaka. They have a facebook, too, that has lots of pics. They seen to be showing all over the world. Even if you couldn't find one of their puppies, they could certainly recommend breeders.


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## NorthJerseyGirrl (Aug 15, 2011)

You may find too that some breeders don't do email and that does not mean they are not good. Or their websites may not be up to your standards. Breeders are dog people, not technology people, and that is a good thing... the conversations get too detailed for email... and maybe they are better able to ferret out the serious calls from the vague ones by phone. Be willing to use the phone or you might miss out on a really good dog. JMO. Be sure to tell them you want to show the dog--that will eliminate many puppies right away.

A good way to find pups is to look at the litter alerts in the local poodle clubs. The Poodle Club of America has a list of locals and many locals have litter notices. Just in case you get impatient.... : )


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Yes, I think it is important to reiterate that breeders are dog people. I talked to one breeder who talked to me the way you talk to dogs, with commands, reprimands and praises. LOL


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

LOL!!! Outwest, I just about blew tea out my nose!


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## laryenhilllvr (Jul 23, 2012)

outwest said:


> I think all your questions are things I would want to know, but I wouldn't come out and bombard them with that many questions. Most of those questions you can figure out yourself just by chatting a couple times and checking out their website (if they have one). You are thinking all the right things, but keep in mind that not many breeders are going to be able to meet all of our wishes. The most important things to look at are health and personality then looks.
> 
> With toys and minis, I would put special emphasis on whether they show their dogs (much more so than standards) because there are hoardes of really poor conformation toys and minis with long bodies and short legs. That would be fine for a pet, but if I was paying big money for a toy, I would want a good representation of the breed. Some breeders purposefully breed a toy male to a mini female because you get more puppies that way. A toy or mini that is a shrunk down version of a standard are absolutely stunning little dogs! I met my first high quality toys at a dog show and was floored at the difference between them and most of the toys and minis around.
> 
> ...


I was trying not to come out the gate with that many questions, I'd seem a bit too demanding. Following the suggestion of others I'll email them letting them know I'm interested in finding out more about them and request a good day and tine to call for further information. I try to be realistic in knowing that few, if any breeders will meet all my wishes. So after screening a few hopefully I'll have a breeder or two that I really like. From there I would pick the one I feel produces the healthiest and most conformationaly (is that a word) correct. if I find a breeder that comes the closest to what I'm looking for, but doesn't breed blacks I'd suck it up...after all I'd love him/her regardless of color.

I'm glad we share a concern for the reckless breeding of unhealthy toy poodles. Im find that I'm turned off to breeders when they advertise "teacup" poodles, as it is not an acknowledged variety. If they clarify they on,y use the terminology for advertising purposes, I can stomach that SLIGHTLY more. I adore the toys that a tiny versions of the standard!! As I've said before standards make my heart skip a beat so toys that are scaled down versions of them are delightful! As far as size goes I prefer a mid sized toy, I'll be in an apartment in new york and I wouldn't want them hurting for space nit to mention I have every intention of putting him/her into one of my totes while I'm running errands so I'd like it if they weren't too big or heavy. I agree with your assertions about a robust dog, I'm not trying to get a fine boned fragile pet (I think their size inherently makes them a little more fragile, which is enough for me). Now are you saying that breeding toy males to mini females tends to produce a larger litter of robust pups that have the shrunken standard look?

I understand not needing the breeder to be our best friend, my concern is that I must respect them and their practice. I'm not looking for someone I'll talk to everyday, but it woukd be nice if they are friendly or at the very least cordial.

I tried sending a message to Smash on their site through my iPad, but it did not send...I'll try on my laptop after I respond here. You're absolutely right, their poodles are to die for. It's funny because I saw a picture of a cream (or white) toy against a grey background (I want to say its a building) and that was a breath taking specimen. One of the few that were able to do that. The black lips and eyes were divine!



NorthJerseyGirrl said:


> You may find too that some breeders don't do email and that does not mean they are not good. Or their websites may not be up to your standards. Breeders are dog people, not technology people, and that is a good thing... the conversations get too detailed for email... and maybe they are better able to ferret out the serious calls from the vague ones by phone. Be willing to use the phone or you might miss out on a really good dog. JMO. Be sure to tell them you want to show the dog--that will eliminate many puppies right away.
> 
> A good way to find pups is to look at the litter alerts in the local poodle clubs. The Poodle Club of America has a list of locals and many locals have litter notices. Just in case you get impatient.... : )


I made a mental note not to judge a breeder by the aesthetics of their website, just the content. I had to remind myself that not every breeder is tech savvy or even particularly interested in dealing with the Internet. However if I see a site has, for example, good information about the breed or they document precautions they take to make sure their pets are as healthy as possible then I'll be very forgiving. I will also say that the Internet is the primary way i will initially contact a breeder so a somewhat prompt response (I think within a week is fair) with a phone number is appropriate. Now if I find a breeder without a website, then an initial inquiry by phone is acceptable.

I'm already impatient pol, but I know right now is not a good time to get a dog as I travel a fair amount for weeks at a time. In two years, I'll be in a new city with a more steady schedule and available time...so Im reminding myself to just prepare and get as ready as possible so I can give my new dog the happiest home I can provide.


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## laryenhilllvr (Jul 23, 2012)

outwest said:


> Yes, I think it is important to reiterate that breeders are dog people. I talked to one breeder who talked to me the way you talk to dogs, with commands, reprimands and praises. LOL


LOL seriously??


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Outwest, If they only knew...lol


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

laryenhilllvr said:


> Im find that I'm turned off to breeders when they advertise "teacup" poodles, as it is not an acknowledged variety. If they clarify they on,y use the terminology for advertising purposes, I can stomach that SLIGHTLY more.


Good poodle breeders never need to "advertise" with the word teacup, so if you see that word on their website I would consider it a red flag and move on. For instance, my breeder who currently has a toy female pup available that is on the small side describers her as extremely tiny for descriptive purposes... there is no need to go down the the "teacup" road. Miniature and Toy Poodle Puppies for Sale | Clarion Poodles | 

Getting references from the PCA is a great idea! It is a wonderful place to start and then you can narrow down by your own priorities. I would suggest deciding what is most important to you and narrowing your questions to address only the most important things. Some the info you will be able to get from the breeder's website. 

Some of the things you are asking require extensive knowledge to know what is what. For instance, you ask about inbreeding. I think you need to know a lot about inbreeding and linebreeding to know if it something you are or are not OK with. I personally don't believe that ALL inbreeding/linebreeding is bad, but many people believe that ALL inbreeding/linebreeding is bad, no discussion. Genetics and breeding are an art form that people study and practice for decades. Unless you are well informed about genetics and such, I suggest you look for a breeder with a solid reputation in the poodle community, someone who shares similar philosophies as you (i.e., if temperament is your number 1 priority, it should also be a high priotrity with your breeder). This is what I did as I am not a breeder nor a geneticist!

My breeder breeds minis and toys, mostly black and white. She is in California and will not ship puppies, so you would have to fly there and back with the dog but this is very easily done with a toy.

Who is Clarion Poodles?


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## laryenhilllvr (Jul 23, 2012)

PaddleAddict said:


> Good poodle breeders never need to "advertise" with the word teacup, so if you see that word on their website I would consider it a red flag and move on. For instance, my breeder who currently has a toy female pup available that is on the small side describers her as extremely tiny for descriptive purposes... there is no need to go down the the "teacup" road. Miniature and Toy Poodle Puppies for Sale | Clarion Poodles |
> 
> Getting references from the PCA is a great idea! It is a wonderful place to start and then you can narrow down by your own priorities. I would suggest deciding what is most important to you and narrowing your questions to address only the most important things. Some the info you will be able to get from the breeder's website.
> 
> ...


At first I felt I may have been a bit harsh, but thank you for backing me in regards to terminology.

I sent the PCA (east and west) an email requesting a few suggestions. I read the message I sent and I mentioned health being primary, followed by conformation (I cited the smash poodles), and then color. To my dismay I completely forgot to mention temperment! Oh, and I mentioned that I'm a newbie interesting in showing as well. So hopefully I will hear from them soon, or woukd it have been better to call? I think sometimes being so accustomed to doing everything has become a downfall (pay bills, shop, etc).

As far as inbreeding I wasn't trying to get into punnett squares and stuff, just a general question. I'm not a fan of inbreeding exclusively, however I have no problem if it is done to bring a particular trait into their line. I think a bit of both is best. 

I will admit that I was a bit hesitant to visit clarion's site. Not that I heard ANYTHING negative...on The contrary, ive seen their name on at least one other breeder's pedigree. I was concerned because I am completely and utterly in love with the Smash poodles. I emailed them through their site so hopefully I get a response. However, I read their site and was THOROUGHLY impressed! She was quite articulate as to her philosophies and what she breeds for, this immediately impressed me. I was also impressed that she requests references from he buyer, I must say it actually put a smile of satisfaction on my face. I read through the contracts she has for her pet quality pups and was equally impressed with her professionalism. The health guarantee can't be beat, her interest in the puppy after the sale is also remarkable. It's good to know a breeder is concerned if something bad were to happen to one of their dogs. So I said all of that to say I will be adding them to my list of potential breeders!


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## Poodlelvr (Mar 13, 2010)

You should expect good breeders to have a lot of questions for you. They want to make sure they are placing their pups in good homes. If all they are interested in is your bank balance, they are not good breeders. You can also contact local poodle clubs in the area you are interested in. They do breeder referral. It might be very difficult to get a show quality pup from a kennel like Smash as a newbie in showing.


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## laryenhilllvr (Jul 23, 2012)

Poodlelvr said:


> You should expect good breeders to have a lot of questions for you. They want to make sure they are placing their pups in good homes. If all they are interested in is your bank balance, they are not good breeders. You can also contact local poodle clubs in the area you are interested in. They do breeder referral. It might be very difficult to get a show quality pup from a kennel like Smash as a newbie in showing.


Im hoping they do. I would actually be a bit worried if they had no questions for me...after all I am hauling off with one of their poodles.

Please don't tell me that! I would be absolutely heartbroken. I really do admire their structure and have become immensely interested in them (albeit I just found out about them today lol). However, I'm glad you told me...at least I can prepare myself by considering additional breeders as a back up. I'm wondering what I could do to make myself a better candidate for one of their pups, after all everyone has to start somewhere...


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Very few elite show breeders would sell a show prospect to a novice. 

Quite honestly, if you have your heart on showing then try hard to get a "pet" puppy from a breeder you admire. Practice on this pet puppy keeping up the hair and training and maybe showing if you get the OK from the breeder. Join your local kennel club, go to dog shows, volunteer with handlers, take handling classes, etc. 

Then when the breeder sees you are committed and serious about wanting to show (and you have succesfully done what is necessary with the hair, training, conditioning, etc.), they might consider you for a show prospect for your second puppy.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

They also might look at a co-ownership arrangement with one of them handling the dog. You might want to consider something like this as it gets your foot in the door with them.


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## laryenhilllvr (Jul 23, 2012)

PaddleAddict said:


> Very few elite show breeders would sell a show prospect to a novice.
> 
> Quite honestly, if you have your heart on showing then try hard to get a "pet" puppy from a breeder you admire. Practice on this pet puppy keeping up the hair and training and maybe showing if you get the OK from the breeder. Join your local kennel club, go to dog shows, volunteer with handlers, take handling classes, etc.
> 
> Then when the breeder sees you are committed and serious about wanting to show (and you have succesfully done what is necessary with the hair, training, conditioning, etc.), they might consider you for a show prospect for your second puppy.


Ok, so after getting a "pet" quality dog and showing my face around the circuit then I could possibly get into showing. Would I even be allowed to show a pet quality dog at a show? I can understand, to a point, the "paying your dues" part. 

So I'm really wondering what to do at this point. I've looked through about 20-30 breeders (I know there are A LOT more and I'm hoping the PCA will assist by making some suggestions). Up to this point only one has seriously caught my eye (smash) and another is potentially a back up (clarion). I was attracted to the poodle for two reasons: firstly looks then temperment. It was the physical appearance, the regality of this breed that made me want to find out more about them. after researching I felt they would be a good fit for me. I've looked online at some breeders and many seem to not be in tune, at least visually, with what I'm looking for (ie long backs, long legs, ewe necks, etc). I hate to sound superficial, but ultimately i will have to look at him/her everday. Am I consigned to the poorly bred (or substandard) dogs until someone feels im worthy of a specimen that is more anatomically correct to begin showing. I hope you don't feel as if I'm attacking you or anything, that is by no means my intention. What im asking is this: if I am looking for a dog that fits a very specific look (basically a shrunken standard) and these are often reserved for "show owners" what am I to do? 

Im glad you told me this because as you said I breeder with a history like Smash's probably will be reluctant to sell me a show quality pup...no matter how much I admire them lol. I appreciate the dose of reality, honestly.


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## laryenhilllvr (Jul 23, 2012)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> They also might look at a co-ownership arrangement with one of them handling the dog. You might want to consider something like this as it gets your foot in the door with them.


How does that typically work?


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

You do not know the policy of someone like Smash, so do not get disappointed before you've even had a chance to speak with them.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

With a co-ownership, there are several ways it could go, but typically, you would pay half the value of a breeding/show dog. Both of your names would be on the dog. If they handled I would imagine because the fee would be greatly reduced, because it is in their interest too. You would give them back a puppy out of a litter if the dog was female, or allow them a specified number of stud fees if a male. After they got their puppy or stud services, the dog would then go into your name alone. But like I said, they are lots of different arrangements out there.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Arreau is right, it cannot hurt to ask, but consider this. If a breeder spends years showing a dog, health testing the dog, researching pedigrees, finding a match, breeding a litter... and finally, the puppies are here. In toy poodles, this might be one or two puppies. In every litter of dogs no matter the breed you are lucky to get one outstanding show prospect. Let's say there is just one... will that breeder sell it to someone who has never shown? Or keep it herself to show or place it with an experienced show home? Does that make sense?

BUT, just because you get a "pet" doesn't mean it will not be beautiful. My mini is a "pet," and well, he is just gorgeous and has a great outgoing and "showy" personality and fits the breed standard well. A toy poodle breeder evaluated him when he was 4 months and said I would have been able to easily finish his championship IF I wanted to and IF my breeder would have said it was OK (since he was sold as a pet). Well, she was to be my mentor, but she ended up moved out of state and as a complete novice I knew I could not do it myself without a mentor. Plus, one of his testicles did not drop, which is a disqualification. So I never even asked the breeder if I might show him for fun in puppy classes.

People ask me all the time if he's a show dog. No he is not, but he is from a show breeder and he probably could have been a show dog. He was not the best in the litter, but he is a very nice poodle, but he comes from quality and it shows.

If you get a "pet" from an incredible breeder it could very well look just as good as most other show poodles. And then you have this beautiful, great temperament pet that you can learn how to groom and train and now you are connected with this great breeder who knows you aspire to show. And when you are ready, wow, you could get a show dog from one of the best in the world. 

You should PM CharismaticMillie on this forum. She started with a pet standard poodle but wanted to show and now she has a show dog (a Grand Champion!). She could tell you her story.


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## laryenhilllvr (Jul 23, 2012)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> You do not know the policy of someone like Smash, so do not get disappointed before you've even had a chance to speak with them.


This is true. Hopefully they will see the love I have for the breed, that im committed to showing, and allow me the opportunity. otherwise I'll have to continue my search elsewhere. I sent them an email so hopefully they will respond as the only contact information I could find on them was a telephone number in Japan and that was for their grooming course. I did come across a thread where it was suggested someone contact them in the US, so I'm wondering if they have breeders here as well.



ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> With a co-ownership, there are several ways it could go, but typically, you would pay half the value of a breeding/show dog. Both of your names would be on the dog. If they handled I would imagine because the fee would be greatly reduced, because it is in their interest too. You would give them back a puppy out of a litter if the dog was female, or allow them a specified number of stud fees if a male. After they got their puppy or stud services, the dog would then go into your name alone. But like I said, they are lots of different arrangements out there.


I would be comfortable with that type of agreement, although I would prefer to send the female off to the breeder for breeding as I have no experience with delivering pups and would be slightly apprehensive to oversee the process alone.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

laryenhilllvr said:


> This is true. Hopefully they will see the love I have for the breed, that im committed to showing, and allow me the opportunity. otherwise I'll have to continue my search elsewhere. I sent them an email so hopefully they will respond as the only contact information I could find on them was a telephone number in Japan and that was for their grooming course. I did come across a thread where it was suggested someone contact them in the US, so I'm wondering if they have breeders here as well.
> 
> 
> 
> I would be comfortable with that type of agreement, although I would prefer to send the female off to the breeder for breeding as I have no experience with delivering pups and would be slightly apprehensive to oversee the process alone.


They would likely feel better about that too.

If you Google Kaz Hosaka, there is lots of information about him. I know he has a home and kennel in the Eastern US. I can try to get info from a friend who had him handle her mini, if you cannot get info on Google.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I wonder if you might be able to reach them through one of their FB pages? 
https://www.facebook.com/SmashPoodleEliteTraining


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## laryenhilllvr (Jul 23, 2012)

PaddleAddict said:


> Arreau is right, it cannot hurt to ask, but consider this. If a breeder spends years showing a dog, health testing the dog, researching pedigrees, finding a match, breeding a litter... and finally, the puppies are here. In toy poodles, this might be one or two puppies. In every litter of dogs no matter the breed you are lucky to get one outstanding show prospect. Let's say there is just one... will that breeder sell it to someone who has never shown? Or keep it herself to show or place it with an experienced show home? Does that make sense?
> 
> BUT, just because you get a "pet" doesn't mean it will not be beautiful. My mini is a "pet," and well, he is just gorgeous and has a great outgoing and "showy" personality and fits the breed standard well. A toy poodle breeder evaluated him when he was 4 months and said I would have been able to easily finish his championship IF I wanted to and IF my breeder would have said it was OK (since he was sold as a pet). Well, she was to be my mentor, but she ended up moved out of state and as a complete novice I knew I could not do it myself without a mentor. Plus, one of his testicles did not drop, which is a disqualification. So I never even asked the breeder if I might show him for fun in puppy classes.
> 
> ...


Ok I understand now! I was getting caught up in not being able to show and accepting a "pet" quality pup, which for some reason I connected to being riddled with faults, never considering that some if the posters in this forum have pet quality dogs that quite beautiful. I was interpreting your statement as: your chances of getting a puppy (of any quality) from smash or another illustrious breeder is zero to none. Lol. 

Also, it was mentioned that I could possibly do a part ownership as well.

Once again, I apologize if you felt I was attacking you or getting upset. I welcome very frank comments, as I tend to a bit blunt myself.

I'll be sure to look them up. I'm very interested on how she got into showing.


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## laryenhilllvr (Jul 23, 2012)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> They would likely feel better about that too.
> 
> If you Google Kaz Hosaka, there is lots of information about him. I know he has a home and kennel in the Eastern US. I can try to get info from a friend who had him handle her mini, if you cannot get info on Google.


I thought I saw somewhere that he resided in Delaware or somewhere like that. I saw a business profile that listed him as the owner of a pet boarding facility, but wasn't sure if it was him or if that would be an appropriate means to contact him. However, I saw nothing about his contact information...just pages upon pages of his work as a handler and some interviews. If you wouldn't mind getting the info from your friend and I'll continue to scour google and between the both of us one of us should be able to turn up with something.



ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> I wonder if you might be able to reach them through one of their FB pages?
> https://www.facebook.com/SmashPoodleEliteTraining


I also thought of that. As I sent the email only a few hours I thought I'd give them a day or two then message them through their fb page. SN: that course seems pretty intense, yet immensely fun!


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## Rayah-QualitySPs (Aug 31, 2010)

laryenhilllvr said:


> So I'm posting this under general poodle talk because I think many can relate to wondering what to ask the breeder.
> 
> 
> Things to ask breeder:
> ...


Dear Laryenhilllvr;
I think you are on the right track with your questions. Maybe not for an e-mail but for sure in a phone converstation. Breeders like to talk to interested people and prefer to sell puppies to poodle educated people.

I have added a bit here to your questions:

how often do you breed a female, how old is she when you breed her and how many total litters a year? How many times is the mother bred before spayinghow often do you breed a female and how many total litters a year?

do you inbreed? change inbreed to linebreed - same thing but you are more apt to get a true answer this way

tests for health defects in parent You need to ask WHAT do you health test for and may I see the paperwork or test results You should be aware of what health testing you would like to see.


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## laryenhilllvr (Jul 23, 2012)

Rayah-QualitySPs said:


> Dear Laryenhilllvr;
> I think you are on the right track with your questions. Maybe not for an e-mail but for sure in a phone converstation. Breeders like to talk to interested people and prefer to sell puppies to poodle educated people.
> 
> I have added a bit here to your questions:
> ...


Thanks a million! Im just so use to hearing inbreeding, but I think line breeding doesn't have a negative connotation, I'll be sure to change that. 

I've been doing some reading on health tests, but I definitely wouldn't consider myself an expert so I'm a bit worried that when I do look at the papers I'll be lost lol.

Lol, several others...actually I think almost everyone has recommended I wait to bombard them with all those questions and to spread them out over several conversations. For now I try to send a relatively brief email stating that I am interested in a toy poodle, with good health around the spring/summer of 2014 and I would like to speak to them more about their kennel and the breed in general. I also offer to give them my contact info if they prefer phone calls instead of emails. I've only sent three (sharbelle, greylock, calais, and my first choice smash) so hopefully I'll be able to hear back from them soon.


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

*A most unusual question!*

Based on the current political atmosphere here in the United States, I would be tempted to ask how the breeder feels about USDA proposed rule changes and WHAT THEY HAVE DONE ABOUT IT. If they haven't done anything, this is a breeder who either has their head in the sand, is too terrified by AR folk to speak up OR.. who doesn't care enough about the breed to speak up. So while this is an unusual question (a sign of the times...), I would ask what they have done about it AND want to see their comments on the AKC and USDA sites. 

If a breeder won't speak up to protect the breed, well... 


As far as asking lots of questions.. again.. a sign of the times. I have received several emails warning of Animal Rights folk who are misrepresenting themselves to breeder's in order to obtain information about them. Many breeder's are being a bit cautious about releasing any information until they know a bit about the buyer.

Sounds like things are going well in your search though!


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## laryenhilllvr (Jul 23, 2012)

Yaddaluvpoodles said:


> Based on the current political atmosphere here in the United States, I would be tempted to ask how the breeder feels about USDA proposed rule changes and WHAT THEY HAVE DONE ABOUT IT. If they haven't done anything, this is a breeder who either has their head in the sand, is too terrified by AR folk to speak up OR.. who doesn't care enough about the breed to speak up. So while this is an unusual question (a sign of the times...), I would ask what they have done about it AND want to see their comments on the AKC and USDA sites.
> 
> If a breeder won't speak up to protect the breed, well...
> 
> ...


I think I may need to research this myself as the last I heard it was going after puppy mills and those that only sold online...maybe I misunderstood it.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

They are after all of us!


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

laryenhilllvr said:


> I think I may need to research this myself as the last I heard it was going after puppy mills and those that only sold online...maybe I misunderstood it.


I would encourage you to do so. There is much that is misleading and insidious about it. 

If the proposed rule change is implemented as it is currently written, it will impact more an estimated 150,000 hobby breeder's across the United States. Not only of dogs, but also cats and a variety of other species. Although I no longer have goats, if I did, I would not be able to sell my wethers as pets or companion animals, only for meat.. so it also targets farmers.

The proposed rule endangers any rare breeds. Further it makes it impossible for any new people to start breeding unless they are open to USDA oversight from the first.. among other things. .that means that either their dogs won't be kept in their homes or their homes will have moisture impervious, easily washiable walls and floors. Puppies will not be allowed to have any contact with adult dogs other than their own dams.. no socialization..

Yes, I would definately encourage you to take a REALLY close loo at this rule change, not just the fact sheets, but pull up each of the rules in the Animal Welfare Act that will be imposed on people who are regulated.. and kiss your lovable well socialized dogs good bye if it passes.. the only ones who will be left standing will be the commercial puppy mills. This is not a gloom and doom scenario.. read the regulations, don't let others read them and interpret them for you. Almost everyone I know of was in favor of this rule change at first glance...before realizing what the unintended consequences will be.


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## papoodles (Jun 27, 2011)

Look up this thread started by Yadda and you'll soon be fully informed of the nefarious, stealthy attacks on every breeder here in the US, coordinated by PETA and HSUS...and it doesn't stop there: it will also affect breeders outside of the US who want to do business with breeders here in the US.

Animal rights activists run amok. They must be stopped, or it'll be Wayne Pacelle's wish come true: " One generation and out".
He may try to soft pedal his words now, but, be careful, a leopard doesn't change its spots....


http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/20085-behalf-all-us-dogs-i-need-your-help.html


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

laryenhilllvr said:


> I think I may need to research this myself as the last I heard it was going after puppy mills and those that only sold online...maybe I misunderstood it.


I would encourage you to do so. There is much that is misleading and insidious about it. 

If the proposed rule change is implemented as it is currently written, it will impact more an estimated 150,000 hobby breeder's across the United States. Not only of dogs, but also cats and a variety of other species. Although I no longer have goats, if I did, I would not be able to sell my wethers as pets or companion animals, only for meat.. so it also targets farmers.

The proposed rule endangers any rare breeds. Further it makes it impossible for any new people to start breeding unless they are open to USDA oversight from the first.. among other things. .that means that either their dogs won't be kept in their homes or their homes will have moisture impervious, easily washiable walls and floors. Puppies will not be allowed to have any contact with adult dogs other than their own dams.. no socialization..

Yes, I would encourage you to take a REALLY close loo at this rule change, not just the fact sheets, but pull up each of the rules in the Animal Welfare Act that will be imposed on people who are regulated.. and kiss your lovable well socialized dogs good bye if it passes.. the only ones who will be left standing will be the commercial puppy mills. This is not a gloom and doom scenario.. read the regulations, don't let others read them and interpret them for you. Almost everyone I know of was in favor of this rule change at first glance...before realizing what the unintended consequences will be.


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## laryenhilllvr (Jul 23, 2012)

Yaddaluvpoodles said:


> I would encourage you to do so. There is much that is misleading and insidious about it.
> 
> If the proposed rule change is implemented as it is currently written, it will impact more an estimated 150,000 hobby breeder's across the United States. Not only of dogs, but also cats and a variety of other species. Although I no longer have goats, if I did, I would not be able to sell my wethers as pets or companion animals, only for meat.. so it also targets farmers.
> 
> ...


Oh wow!! I'm flabbergasted! Is there a petition or something I can sign or do to protest?



papoodles said:


> Look up this thread started by Yadda and you'll soon be fully informed of the nefarious, stealthy attacks on every breeder here in the US, coordinated by PETA and HSUS...and it doesn't stop there: it will also affect breeders outside of the US who want to do business with breeders here in the US.
> 
> Animal rights activists run amok. They must be stopped, or it'll be Wayne Pacelle's wish come true: " One generation and out".
> He may try to soft pedal his words now, but, be careful, a leopard doesn't change its spots....
> ...


I will be sure to read this, I can't believe their propositions!


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