# Finally have Appt - Shedding and itching



## sarahebeth (Feb 16, 2016)

Oh, man. I hope your vet can give you some real answers that will bring relief to Mochi. Please keep us posted. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Just my (experienced) opinion, don't waste your money at the regular Vet, go straight to a Veterinary Dermatologist.
And as for over the counter treatments, try a Biotin supplement and Nizoral human dandruff shampoo. You have petplan, right? As soon as you have the issue documented by the vet, they will pay for those things.


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

*Pictures*

Here are some pictures of her front leg, left thigh area with three bite spots, a spot on her back, and a spot on her ribs. I couldn't get a good pick of the base of her tail, or that spot under her anus but it's all the same really. Some have grown in a bit and some are newer so still very bald. 

I hadn't brushed her for a week so I did brush her tail before taking the pictures. I know it's been a week but still... It's only from her little 7 inch long tail with 1 inch of hair... By comparison there is a picture of the brush after I did Chuui's tail, also not brushed for a week, also 7 inches long with 1 inch of hair...:argh:


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

I forgot to say I also have tried two different supplements. Most recently some packet of goop that had the word "lick" in the name... she was on it for 20 days. It was supposed to be for skin and hair health and allergies in dogs. Reviews I found were great. No change.

TP - I have often thought of your advice as I know you've said the same in the past. Can I get a recommendation from you on who to see in NYC? Now that I have my new roller carrier, we can go anywhere by subway.


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## seminolewind (Mar 11, 2016)

I would also think about hormones. Maybe she's low in one. I hope they find out what's wrong.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

This could be allergies or it could be a sign of hypothyroidism. I would investigate both of those issues. Thankfully they are both manageable.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I'm with Lily....Hypothyroidism and allergies are both common causes of hair loss/ itchiness, make sure you have both a T-3 and a T-4 thyroid test done when you go to the Vet. I've heard good things about the Dr. Dodds Nutriscan allergy test too!


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I agree with TP. See if your regular vet can recommend a veterinary dermatologist.


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## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

I'd go straight to the dermatologist too. Have them do a full thyroid panel, not just free T4, and I'd do a full blood panel too while they're pulling blood.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Do they have doggie endocrinologists? I'm guessing thyroid or an immune system issue of some sort. Even during coat change Matisse never shed a hair. I do hope your vet does a thorough blood work up which would probably address the issue. There's always steroids but I'd rather get to the root of the problem first. Lots of good wishes coming your way. If she were mine, I'd also put her on a fresh, raw food diet if she's not already on one. But it does take a little study first. But then, that's me. I think kibble is the root of all evil. :act-up: And too many vaccinations. Keep us posted. I hope it's not an allergy. They're so hard to figure out.


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

*Thank you!!!*

OMG thank you everyone! I have a recommendation for a vet dermatologist from TP and I had forgot about checking for Thyroid issues! A coworker had mentioned that previously but that is certainly a concern given her inability to gain weight also - 19mo Mochi has stayed around 12lbs since she was 7 months old, whereas 12mo old Chuui has gained almost 4lbs since she was 7mo, and they eat the same amount of the same food every day.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and well wishes! I'll post an update if I get any good feedback.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

BrooklynBonnie said:


> OMG thank you everyone! I have a recommendation for a vet dermatologist from TP and I had forgot about checking for Thyroid issues! A coworker had mentioned that previously but that is certainly a concern given her inability to gain weight also - 19mo Mochi has stayed around 12lbs since she was 7 months old, whereas 12mo old Chuui has gained almost 4lbs since she was 7mo, and they eat the same amount of the same food every day.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks everyone for your suggestions and well wishes! I'll post an update if I get any good feedback.



Hypothyroidism usually causes weight gain, not loss, but certainly a full endocrine screening is in order.
PS, if you are still under the old Petplan policy and have 100 percent coverage, get all of the lab work done at the regular Vet as the derm will only be covered at 80 percent. Also if he wants to prescribe anything (often he has his own formulas compounded), you can ask to have the regular vet order it, and then it will be covered at 100 percent as well!


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

*After visit*

So the regular vet agreed the hair loss and her biting/itching may each be caused by any of the sources such as allergies, thyroid issues or even some kind of mite that can be hiding at the base of hair follicles in the skin since Mochi's biting areas are completely at random and a mite issue could cause hair-loss all over if it compromised the follicles themselves. She did a skin scrape and took blood for testing. I did ask for as many thyroid tests as possible, not just the free one and she agreed we'd do more than one. The invoice says "Total Health Plus w free T4" so I'm not sure exactly what that includes though, and she did come in afterwards and say there was another thyroid test we could run later but I can't remember why she didn't want to bother with it this time. 

She gave us 2 weeks of Apoquel to try and stop her itching as the Dr. didn't want Mochi to traumatize her skin to the point that she opened it up to infections too. Right now, the vet said Mochi's skin seems to be in good condition - no bumps, scabs, irritations or dryness anywhere and she wants to keep it that way.

Now we wait for skin scrape and thyroid test results and go from there. Probably a few days until we hear. She said after the results, if necessary, we'd start talking about food changes but she doesn't want to make any changes at all for now unless we know food is involved. She said it was good that we'd gone through the removal of all chicken products, and the bathing and rinsing trials as it helps to rule out basic causes and we can move forward to other tests now.

I feel better now that we are started on the path to finding out what her issue is. :amen:

Oh, and I did ask for the full notes of the visit to be emailed to me as well.

TP- we do still have the old PetPlan with 100% coverage, so will take your advice and try to get as much done at the regular vet first.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Sounds like things are getting done in order to get to the bottom of this. Personally, I'd remove carbohydrates from the diet. Hopefully your vet won't lead you into Science Diet which is nothing but fillers basically. Mites! That's certainly something that it could be. I forgot to think of that! Apoquel is something my sister's dog takes and it's worked like a charm. Her Sheltie (a sheep herding dog) is allergic to wool and a bunch of other things. But it's helped immeasurably. So hoping your baby is made comfortable and that the culprit is discovered.


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## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

What about a punch biopsy for SA? I've heard good things about Apoquel as far as symptom management, but I don't know about long term use. It's an immune suppressant.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

It sounds like your Vet is being pretty thorough with her prelim exam and is as concerned as you are. That's good! Hope you get to the bottom of it!!!!!


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

*Test Results*

I actually got a call the next day from the vet. They said the thyroid tests all came back fine, and the skin scrape revealed nothing at all. So we're going to finish the Apoquel and I'm to update the vet at the end of these two weeks on that to let them know if it helped or didn't seem to. They said the next step then is to try a stricter limited ingredient trial - I wasn't being strict enough before as only the kibble was LID, but their treats were regular Nature's Variety Instinct treats which I had just chose based on no chicken being in the ingredients (and the Instinct line is grain/gluten/soy -free already).

The vet suggested a fish and sweet potato LID choice, but I wanted to stick with Nature's Variety and their LID line doesn't have a fish option (just turkey, duck and lamb). I looked at their Instinct Salmon kibble ingredient list and compared it to the Turkey LID she's on now and see hardly any different except all the protein is fish. So I'm thinking of just trying her on the Instinct Salmon kibble and getting LID treats...

Honestly I would like to go raw or part raw but the logistics of doing this in the city without a car seem troublesome. First where do you get raw in NYC? Then how far would I need to transport it in this heat on public transportation? I would love to get prepared raw (Mochi loved the NV Instinct Raw bites I used to give her as a treat now and then) but it's so expensive I can't afford it right now, even if it's just one meal a day. I even thought of doing all freeze-dried (I use NV Instinct freeze-dried bites as their treats now) but that also seems too expensive at the moment) :alberteinstein:

Hmm.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Freeze dried raw, like Primal?


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## Myleen (Apr 30, 2016)

Poor Mochi *& you!* 

Not sure if I should even mention this but it popped in my mind.
Wondering if it is a tiny bit possible a plant somewhere might be responsible?


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

What about Honest Kitchen? Dehydrated and can be mailed to your door.


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

lily cd re said:


> Freeze dried raw, like Primal?


Yes I think so. Nature's Variety used to promote their freeze dried raw as a meal but now they just promote as a topper or treat. Still...

Myleen - Could be a plant but not the physical plant, probably pollen. We're in the city, with a concrete backyard and she is walked on concrete sidewalks, and the dog park is dirt with no plant access, except what falls from trees. We are thinking of environmental allergies, for sure.

CT Girl - We're not in the best situation for home delivery, not having any place for stuff to be left if we're not home, but I maybe could have light things, like freeze dried, delivered to my office... if my boss doesn't mind. 

Hmm still...


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

*Nothing New*

When we had to take Chuui in for a follow-up after her spay recently, I brought up Mochi's situation to the vet, even though he wasn't the one Mochi was seeing, I thought he could give some idea of if they would in general be open to allergy testing just to get an idea of what may be irritating to Mochi in general and then I could rule those things out as much as possible, instead of going through months and months of more food trials. He was not as open as I was hoping to doing allergy testing, saying allergy tests are not useful in that they are not accurate much of the time. I said something about the saliva testing Hemopet does for food and environmental allergies and he tossed that out saying "we refer you to a vet dermatologist for a skin test where they shave the hair and do multiple tests right on the skin..."

Ugh. I did not what to put Mochi through that kind of testing, and their usual referral dermatologist is here in Brooklyn, and though I mentioned I had a recommendation for TP's person in Manhattan and told them which place he worked, this guy said the place has a great reputation but they love their guy in Brooklyn.

So I left with the impression that I would not get notes on the record recommending allergy testing with Hemopet and that they would push me to go to their person in Brooklyn for testing.

Excuse me while I pout for a minute. I don't want more appointments. I don't want to make Mochi go through the shaved skin testing. I don't want to spend months and months and $$$ trying to guess which food she's reacting to more, and (hundreds more) hours researching treats and food to guess which will be less reactive but work just as well as the treats and food we are used to in our lives. Especially if her hair-loss and itching is not food related, but environmental. Her poos have always been fine except when she was on a terrible quality food from her breeder... :frusty::Cry:out:


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## Mfmst (Jun 18, 2014)

I'm sorry there hasn't been a resolution. I think it's time to bite the bullet and see either the Brooklyn dermatologist or the one in Manhattan. You already have exhaustive food notes and blood work. And pet insurance! The allergen testing I recall didn't take long and I also don't remember swaths of fur being shaved. I do remember the initial visit and testing were expensive for us at the time. The results were worth every penny.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

The testing from the dermatologist isn't really that bad as I remember it.......on my Cairn the 'prick testing' was done on her tummy and did not hurt her at all..........go to the dermatologist! It is the best way to see quickly if and what your dog is allergic to!
I'd also talk YOUR Vet about YOUR choice of who you'd like your dog to see!


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## oshagcj914 (Jun 12, 2016)

BrooklynBonnie said:


> When we had to take Chuui in for a follow-up after her spay recently, I brought up Mochi's situation to the vet, even though he wasn't the one Mochi was seeing, I thought he could give some idea of if they would in general be open to allergy testing just to get an idea of what may be irritating to Mochi in general and then I could rule those things out as much as possible, instead of going through months and months of more food trials. He was not as open as I was hoping to doing allergy testing, saying allergy tests are not useful in that they are not accurate much of the time. I said something about the saliva testing Hemopet does for food and environmental allergies and he tossed that out saying "we refer you to a vet dermatologist for a skin test where they shave the hair and do multiple tests right on the skin..."
> 
> Ugh. I did not what to put Mochi through that kind of testing, and their usual referral dermatologist is here in Brooklyn, and though I mentioned I had a recommendation for TP's person in Manhattan and told them which place he worked, this guy said the place has a great reputation but they love their guy in Brooklyn.
> 
> ...


What exactly does Hemopet require for the testing? Just a saliva sample? Can't you get that yourself, or do they require a vet send it in for some reason? I did some coat color genetic testing on Asaah and just sent the swab in myself. This is your dog, not theirs. They can push for a certain specialist, but they can't require you to go. If you want the Hemopet testing, then tell them you want it, or send it in yourself if you can. If you want to go to another specialist, then go. Who owns the dog? Who pays the bills? Not your vet  And if they won't listen or work with your, then find one who will.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

Hemopet does not require a vet to send it in. You can request the test kit online and they send it to you. You just swab the inside of the mouth and send it back with your payment. It is really easy.


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

Yes I know Hemopet does not require a vet's cooperation, but if I want the insurance to cover it, it needs to be noted somewhere on the vet notes that it was recommended.

I think I'll just bite the bullet and have them give me a referral to a dermatologist. 

I want to get this fixed asap so her winter coat doesn't look like she's been attacked by moths again this year. (summer coat is bad enough but at least it's really short already).

To top it all off I found a single flea running around Mochi's belly this morning! She's on prevention - Sentinel Spectrum plus or whatever, the chewable that is supposed to be for fleas, ticks and heartworm. We think it's a one-off since there's no other evidence (her itchiness has been an issue for well over a year now and she was checked for fleas before with negative results). Our best guess is it's from the back yard, which we know has had possum visits at night for weeks now. Chuui however, was not on flea prevention until now, so we went out and picked up a Seresto collar. I hate how the collars look and Mochi hates the Sentinel chew so I guess I'll be looking at some kind of topicals for fleas and ticks and a separate pill for heartworm. Yuck.:argh:


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## BrooklynBonnie (Jan 16, 2015)

*Update*

I really thought I posted an update to this issue a while ago, but can't seem to find it.

Just FYI for anyone who stumbles across this post - We did end up going to the dermatologist recommended by our regular vet's office. Mochi was tested (not on her skin, they took blood IIRC) for environmental allergies and results were strong positives for a number of things. Mostly related to dust and dust mites and pollens.

With those results I asked the vet dermatologist if we could avoid the continuous and costly shots or oral medicine option if we just bathed her more often. "No, that will not work." I asked if it's possible she could grow out of her allergies (I had grown out of a serious allergic reaction to tiger mosquito bites, myself). "No, allergies won't disappear if the allergen is still around."

I told them we'd consider and let them know which option we wanted to go with. We never get back to them.

This was back in 2016 IIRC. Well, we had decided to go with our bathe more often plan and see if it would work. It did. She goes to the dog park less (to avoid the pollen filled dusty dirt getting in her coat) and takes more walks on concrete, and we are better about bathing her more often than before. She has not chewed a hole in her hair anywhere on her body since! :amen:

She still has occasional itches just like Chuui and other normal dogs, but has never seemed to have any spot bother her repeatedly or more than an average itch.


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## scooterscout99 (Dec 3, 2015)

Glad to hear that the simple solution worked. I tried allergy shots for a full year on a previous dog and they didn’t help.


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

You did as I did with my Cairn...........I vacuumed more, bathed her & her bedding more,wiped her & her feet down after walks and if pollen was bad (we are in S. Calif so things bloom all year round!) I gave her Zyrtex/Centrizine!
Glad she is better... it is so heartbreaking when they itch and nothing works to stop it!


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