# On Not Using a Crate to Potty Train



## Oreo's Mommy (Dec 18, 2012)

My husband thinks crates are mean. I love them for potty training. Oreo sleeps in his crate at night...from around 10:30pm to 6 am with no accidents. He is 11 weeks old and his crate is in our room just in case. During the day, when dh is not home, mid-morning naps are in his crate too. When dh is home, he lets Oreo out and of course accidents happen in the house. We have bells by the door....Oreo used to ring them to go out to go potty and just to go out in play. Now, he won't ring them but sits by the door and scratches at it...but only if just I am home. If dh is home, Oreo just goes where ever he wants in the house. 

I am frustrated at dh but he is starting to come around after almost stepping in pee a few times. 

I have also had success with tethering Oreo to me and that way I wake up when he moves if we are both napping on the couch in the afternoon. My next big idea is to keep a firm potty schedule but that only works if dh follows it too.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Crates are used far less in the UK - I think you just have to accept that you don't get to nap while housetraining, and if you do there will be accidents. I once raised a pup while going through chemotherapy - mostly I woke up, sometimes I didn't. Eventually she got housetrained, even so.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I never used a crate back in the days when I had puppies. I did not nap durning the day either... I kept my pups in the bathroom when I could not watch them and when they were loose, I watched them all the time. You can tell when a pup is going to potty if you watch them, they will try to get away by themselves, they will circle, they start to smell around ect. If you are paying attention you can catch them before they go. Puppies are hard, and it takes time, but they do finally learn. Be sure to take him out after every nap, playtime, first thing in the morning and before going to bed at night. Good Luck!


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## Mom-n-Reiki (Jan 6, 2013)

Thanks everyone!
Part of me regrets this compromise, but the overwhelming part is I get to learn something new. I don't typically nap, so making plans for that never came up. This morning we have been doing better...until Hubby got involved, because I wouldn't let Reiki down after he woke up until I could get dressed and take him outside. Then, when it was hubby's turn, he puts the puppy on the floor while he is getting leashes on the other dogs and watches him pee. 

FJM, I could not imagine raising a puppy while going through chemo, but some MAJOR kudos to you. I just watched my dad go through it, and he dumped his puppy at the shelter claiming Barney was "jumping on his cancer". Thankfully, the shelter called me and we found him a home quick.

Thanks Carley's Mom! I am eternally grateful my floors are tile. The bathroom in this house is shared, even though it's off of our room, so we never quite know what's going to be in there. I am considering a couple of baby gates to block off excess space, so he has a smaller area to be left alone in.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I have to say that people have got very used to me wandering round the communal grounds in dressing gown and slippers!


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

Me too fjm ! When I was 20 years old and had a Maltese pup, a neighbor's dog jumped on him when I let him out to pee one morning. I ran out of the house in nothing but my panties ! The male neighbor still remembers it well...lol As does my mother...


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

I don't use crates as much as some other people here in the USA. They can be helpful for potty training, but I mostly do without them. The main components of making non-crate potty training work is supervision, timing, and setting the dog up for success.

It really depends on the individual dog, but 20 minutes after eating and drinking sounds like maybe too much time. Typically, this is the schedule I follow, plus some other tips:
http://ladychaunceybarkington.wordp...e-training-schedule-for-puppies-and-new-dogs/

So as you can see, it can be a lot more work and take a lot more supervision than crate training. But I get good results. I guess because it's just so straight forward. Plan on taking time off of work or it's not very likely to work out.


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## -Lilith- (Nov 21, 2012)

Sorry but you shouldn't have to take time off work to potty train your dog. That just sounds ridiculous. I love crate training. My dog loves to be in her crate. Putting puppies in the bathroom, is that not the same thing??? You are putting them somewhere where they are confined so you don't have to keep an eye on them. 


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

-Lilith- said:


> Sorry but you shouldn't have to take time off work to potty train your dog. That just sounds ridiculous. I love crate training. My dog loves to be in her crate. Putting puppies in the bathroom, is that not the same thing??? You are putting them somewhere where they are confined so you don't have to keep an eye on them.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


My dogs are far more secure sleeping in their crates than they would being locked in the bathroom, too. If I leave the doors open to their crates and the bathroom, the crates is where they go - speaking of, Vegas just walked into his and curled up on his fluffy pillow.


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

> Sorry but you shouldn't have to take time off work to potty train your dog. That just sounds ridiculous.


A puppy is a BABY animal. A puppy, like any other baby, has to go to the bathroom frequently. It's cruel to expect a BABY to hold it for hours on end just because you decided to get a puppy when you didn't have time for it. Unless you're hiring a dog walker to come every few hours, you're setting the dog up for failure and making them hold it for unreasonable amount of time.

This is why most rescues won't adopt out puppies to just anyone that comes along with unreasonable and selfish expectations. 

Exactly how long do you expect a puppy to be able to hold it?


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## -Lilith- (Nov 21, 2012)

My puppy was able to hold it for 8 hours. I would feed her in the morning and let her drink. Let her go potty. Put her in her crate went to work. Came home let her out to potty. She only had a couple accidents in her crate. If I put her in a bathroom she would have went every where! 
No she doesn't have bladder issues and she doesn't have accidents in the house. Want to know how old she is? 6 1/2 months. 
I know every dog is different, but I think a crate is better than locking your puppy up in a bathroom 


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## MaryLynn (Sep 8, 2012)

It's good to come to a compromise, but the measurable truth is that your hubby's view on crates (while rightfully his own to choose) are pretty much based on unfounded information that crate training is cruel. Puppies who are properly socialized to crates love them.

It doesn't have to be forever, but the expectations here are a little too high I think. 

If you don't want to crate, and that's a fine choice, then you need to be tethered to that puppy and be there to take it out when it needs to go. Yes puppies who are in a crate can hold it without an accident for a very long time, you'll want to weigh the associated risks and benefits of that before you do it and decide for yourself. 

Anything less and I think you're setting yourself and the puppy up for failure.


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## Theo'sMom (Mar 23, 2011)

There are other good reasons for a dog to get used to spending time in crates when a pup: when you stay at other people's homes and go out and they crate their dog and want you to crate yours, when you stay at vacation homes or a hotel, groomer's, the vet's when they have to stay overnight. So crate training can serve other purposes too in teaching your pup to feel comfortable in his/her "safe space."


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## Lplummer52 (Oct 26, 2013)

*Crate Training*

Crate training is a good thing. It's a safe place and dogs that get used to being in a crate are, I think, more able to tolerate being alone, safer in a car, and is required sometimes for medical procedures. I'm not sure it's any easier to house train a dog with or without a crate. I've done both and all of them were house trained fairly quickly, including an Italian Greyhound and a number of small terriers which are well known to be hard to housebreak. I didn't crate train my last dog, a Japanese Chin that was perfectly house trained at 4 months old and never once messed in the house afterwards for the rest of her life. I was very sorry I didn't crate train her for a number of reasons. Firstly, she had terrible separation anxiety to the extent that she would dig at the door from the time we left to the time we got home. Coming home to a hysterical dog, soaked in its own saliva is not a pretty sight. The paint on the inside of our front door was completely missing in every house we lived. She loved to travel, but we couldn't leave her in a hotel/motel room for obvious reasons. She came with us everywhere....to friends homes and even to restaurants that allowed dogs. We found them everywhere we lived, and always went there even if we would have preferred to eat somewhere else. I even had neighbors petsit with her if we had to go out without her which meant planning in advance. She was fine being left in the car, so could leave her there in the fall and winter in Virginia. I used to carry her in a soft sided crate on planes with me when I traveled and she was fine, so one time we used it in a motel. It looked like a bomb had exploded in the crate and she was scratching at the door when we got back. Luckily, she hadn't scraped the paint off yet. My husband and I would always do errands separately to make sure one of us was home with her at all times. She was a dear, beautiful, special little angel. At the end, the vet wanted to put her on 3 weeks "cage rest," which meant she'd be confined to a crate for 3 weeks. Well, that was out of the question for Puffin. She was in constant pain and I couldn't put her through that. She had degenerative disc disease and we put her down not long ago. I vowed that I wouldn't make that mistake with this new puppy and she sleeps happily her crate at night without making a sound and if I can't watch her when I cook meals or take a shower or whatever, I crate her and as long as she can see us, she's fine. I specifically got a crate on wheels so we can move it from room to room. I believe crate training is a must for all dogs today.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I think a crate can be a very useful thing for both pups and adults - Sophy needed 3 weeks crate rest for a trapped nerve, and I used the car crate. Because she was used to using it in the car, she accepted it very quickly. Although neither of mine were crate trained as pups, they are both now happy to use the crate as a safe, quiet place when we are at events which might otherwise become overwhelming.

But I do think that the convenience of crates can lead to them being over used and misused, and can become an alternative to proper training and attention. Older dogs might cope well with being left at home while their owner works, but recent UK research is showing that many suffer boredom, frustration, fear and even outright panic. A crate may prevent them causing as much damage to the house and furnishings, but is not going to address the fundamental problem (if it were simply a matter of the dog being more relaxed in the crate, there would be no need to bolt the door!). And I really cannot agree with leaving a young pup crated all day, without company, stimulation, food or water. Yes, puppies sleep most of the day, but their naps are interspersed with brief periods of intense play and learning - it leaves a lot of ground to make up in an hour or two in the morning and again in the evening.

My own preference if I needed to leave a puppy for more than half an hour or so was for an X-pen, or similar arrangement, set up with bed, water, safe toys and a toilet area. The older dogs have the run of the house, with the exception of the spare bedroom because I am trying not to have to keep washing muddy cat and dog paw prints off the white bedspread every time I am expecting visitors! If I am gone for more than a few hours, I arrange for a neighbour to let them out in the garden, or to take them for a walk.


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## Lplummer52 (Oct 26, 2013)

I also believe the bigger the dog, the easier it is to housebreak them. A larger dog has a larger bladder and has more control quicker than a small dog. A large puppy can be house trained in a matter of weeks whereas it might take months to house train a small dog. Just sayin.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Lplummer52 said:


> I also believe the bigger the dog, the easier it is to housebreak them. A larger dog has a larger bladder and has more control quicker than a small dog. A large puppy can be house trained in a matter of weeks whereas it might take months to house train a small dog. Just sayin.


It might take months to train a small dog, but it might take a day or two to train a small POODLE - if you use a crate!


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

This is another old thread, but I'll join in  We got Misha at 8 weeks old and she was trained in about 2 days. My chihuahuas caught on quickly too.


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## Lplummer52 (Oct 26, 2013)

Poodles pretty much get it from the get-go. I've had this puppy 4 days and as soon as I put her on her little patch of grass, she pees right away. It takes a little longer for poop, but I know when she's due, so will wait it out with her. She hasn't had an accident yet!


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## TrueColors (Nov 18, 2012)

You also don't have to keep the crate forever , Jenna had hers for less then a year. One day we left her in her crate with the door open but closed all the doors to the rooms and she did fine! We did get the occasional mess at the beginning although she was probably 7-8 months then we adopted her at 5 months and she's been raised from a puppy mill so we were definitely not expecting her to learn so quickly. Later then we got rid of the crate and now she sleeps with us in our room and she's able to have full roam of the house when we're not there  I have to say Jenna hasn't had an accident in the house for years now! We can also leave her in the house alone for up to 8 hours ( on rare occasions ) without a mess.


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## julianyway (Oct 8, 2013)

I bought a poodle from a pet store about five years ago and (I know, one should never do this, but there he was, and all his brothers and sisters were gone, and he was the one I had had my eye on in the first place, knowing one should never buy dogs from pet stores....) 
Anyway he ended up being fine, a great dog, but when we tried to put him in a crate early on, he screamed such incredible murder that the boyfriend insisted that we let him out and that was that. Not the end of the world, and he was not a problem to house train, but the fact is that he can't be crated without some rehabilitation work, which hasn't happened. It is ok but it would be better if it were possible to put him in a crate. I am not with the boyfriend anymore and he got the dog, who is fine. But if he has to travel, it will be hell. 

I have a new poodle of my own now and I am so happy that she is comfortable in a crate, it just makes life that much easier and potential travel, dogsitters, etc. are less worrisome as well. 

Probably like having kids, it is hard to have a dog between two people who don't agree on how to do things.


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## Lplummer52 (Oct 26, 2013)

Jenna is beautiful!


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