# Anyone know of these breeders? Looking at pedigrees



## blueskies (May 6, 2019)

The breeder of the current pup I'm looking at is also making sure the pup gets a tubal ligation tomorrow instead of spay, just for me (the litter is going in tomorrow to get desexed), even though I told them I'm not sure yet if I will be taking the puppy. But they know I want to not spay my new dog until later on in the pups life. So just in case, they're getting that done for me instead of spaying (there's a few breeders here in Australia who insist on desexing their pups before they go home because they're so very against the possibility of a buyer breeding designer dogs).


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

How did this puppy score on the Volhard temperament testing? That should help you determine if this is the right dog for you.


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## Mufar42 (Jan 1, 2017)

Personally I think I would wait until I am sure I found the right dog. Especially if $ is a slight problem at the moment. You will ant to be in a position to have the pup groomed every 4 weeks (unless you will be doing it) and to have all its vaccinations. I am also with the mind that later desexing , spay or neuter is best for the dog. But that is me. I tend to find the 1st year an expensive year.


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## Moni (May 8, 2018)

Desexing of 8 weeks old puppies? I am sorry I hope I read this wrong - but that is so full of insanely horrid health consequences it reaches into irresponsible. A myriad of cancers, bad bone growth and all kinds of other problems are in those pup's future. If they cannot trust people or do not bother doing the research into potential owners backgrounds maybe they shouldn't take their lack of trust out on those poor babies?


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## blueskies (May 6, 2019)

Skylar said:


> How did this puppy score on the Volhard temperament testing? That should help you determine if this is the right dog for you.


Just heard back from the breeder, said “typical poodle temperament she scored mid range for all testing”


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## blueskies (May 6, 2019)

@mufar42 @moni
I don’t agree with early desexing either. It seems the breeders who seem to be most upfront about health testing here (that I can find) also desex their pups before letting them go. At least they are open to an alternative procedure that allows their hormones to still function — is what I’m telling myself. 

The breeder whose pups are due around October lets them go with a legally binding contract to have them desexed by 6 months, so that’s an improvement but I would still want to do tubal ligation/vasectomy instead in that case.


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

Moni said:


> Desexing of 8 weeks old puppies? I am sorry I hope I read this wrong - but that is so full of insanely horrid health consequences it reaches into irresponsible. A myriad of cancers, bad bone growth and all kinds of other problems are in those pup's future.


A tubal ligation wouldn't involve removing the ovaries, just cutting and tying the fallopian tubes so that eggs and sperm can't reach each other. It wouldn't have the potential for long-term negative consequences that a spay does.


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## Mysticrealm (Jan 31, 2016)

JudyD said:


> A tubal ligation wouldn't involve removing the ovaries, just cutting and tying the fallopian tubes so that eggs and sperm can't reach each other. It wouldn't have the potential for long-term negative consequences that a spay does.


I think she means that the breeder desexing all her puppies at 8 weeks old is terrible. Great that she would do the tubal ligation for this one puppy, but spaying all her 8 week old puppies is definitely not a breeder I would go to personally.


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## Moni (May 8, 2018)

JudyD said:


> A tubal ligation wouldn't involve removing the ovaries, just cutting and tying the fallopian tubes so that eggs and sperm can't reach each other. It wouldn't have the potential for long-term negative consequences that a spay does.


JudyD reread the original post - the one pup she is considering is having the tubal ligation - the others in the litter are being neutered and spayed.


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## Raindrops (Mar 24, 2019)

I wouldn't be looking at a breeder that was okay with desexing 8 week old dogs. There's so much research on why it's bad, so to me it says something about the breeder not putting the health of the dogs first, and I wouldn't want to support that. That's something I've seen in the U.S. from doodle breeders.


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## JudyD (Feb 3, 2013)

Moni said:


> JudyD reread the original post - the one pup she is considering is having the tubal ligation - the others in the litter are being neutered and spayed.


I'm not usually quite so dense--those of you who pointed out that the rest of the litter will be spayed or neutered are certainly right. It is bad practice, unhealthy for those poor pups. 

Still, my comment might give other readers info about a different approach to preventing pregnancy without compromising their dog's health. I asked the breeder of my male and my vet about a vasectomy instead of a castration. Both were okay with it, but I opted for the neuter when Blue was a year old for behavioral reasons.


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## blueskies (May 6, 2019)

Hi everyone, thanks so much for all your comments! Just an update - I had pretty much decided against the puppy but did go to meet her for a few reasons:
- just in case she turned out to somehow be the perfect dog
- to meet the breeder and get more insight into her and how she works
- to meet more standard poodles as I haven’t spent much time with the breed and believe it will helpful to figure out what I’m looking for
- to meet the pup and find out more about what I’m looking for

She woukdnt have been a good fit anyway — especially as I’m now looking for a service dog candidate. She wasn’t confident, took quite a while to come near, and was a bit skittish. She could easily be worked on with confidence (I used to work with unadoptable shy dogs at a shelter, with behavior modification). But for my potential service dog, it’s a lot to risk. I learned some things about the lack of socialization that people that the pups from this litter have access to. So even though I met other pups in the litter, too, I probably would avoid this breeder. And I don’t want to have any type of early sterilization done to my dog. 

As a potential service dog in the state I’m in, from what I can see a dog has to be desexed before they can become a service dog in training. So I would probably get the dog done (vascectomy or the alternative to spaying) at 6 months or any time after that that she/he has all her basic obedience down and ready to go all the places only service dogs are allowed. Then wait til 18 months to get the dog properly desexed... I’ll need to double check the laws about what type of sterilization is required. It might be better to get a female so it’s less likely to cause issues (from random people or businesses, visually) in public.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

My Tonka is Cantope Tonka Picard. For the last ten years I've known most of the Cantope dogs... and would probably know the 'Cantope sires' that you speak of.


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## blueskies (May 6, 2019)

Countryboy said:


> My Tonka is Cantope Tonka Picard. For the last ten years I've known most of the Cantope dogs... and would probably know the 'Cantope sires' that you speak of.


I decided not to go with this litter/breeder. But thank you!


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