# Baby doll face?



## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

So I am thinking Killa is going to have a baby doll face like her daddy. I have been waiting for her snout to get longer like Branna and Winter's did, but it hasn't. Does anyone know about baby doll faces or have any experience with them. I am worried she will have bite issues when she gets her adult teeth due to the smaller mouth, her brother and sister have crowded mouths and they have a normal sized snouts. 
Here is a picture of her 







And her is a picture of her dad 







And her mom









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## Caniche (Jun 10, 2013)

First of all, all three of those babies are CUTE! Especially Killa. My heart melts when I see her.

The black one (dad?) doesn't seem to have a baby doll face, nor does the white one (mom?). The white one's mouth does seem a bit....off, but it might be the photo.

I know baby doll faces is often associated with short legs and teacup sizes. I've seen plenty of round faced baby doll faced puppies, and Killa doesn't look much like them. 

I guess at your next vet visit you can ask what the vet thinks, but from what I've seen, I wouldn't be too worried. She looks proportionate. 


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

A 'baby doll face' is actually an incorrect face for poodles, I don't see why anyone would specifically breed for it. If you see her adult teeth coming in over the top of her juvenile teeth I'd help encourage them to come out. Loosen them with your fingers, give them gentle tugs, ect. Better than a shark mouth. I did this with a few of Cairo's more stubborn teeth, mostly since I was showing him I didn't want his bite being thrown off. No teeth problems with him as an adult.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

I agree that Poodles are not to have a "baby doll" muzzle. Used as a marketing tool to jack up the price of pups with undesirable traits. Your pup looks to have a proportionate muzzle to her size. Teeth I believe are often inherited conditions & if Sire & Dam had issues then more than likely your dog will have issues. The puppy teeth need out as the adult teeth come in. Esp. with the tinies no matter the breed usually is not enough room. Check your pups mouth daily, see what teeth are loose, which ones aren't budging & see the vet to get puppy teeth removed if need be.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I do not see " baby doll faces" either - to be perfectly honest , maybe it is the picture angle, but the dad looks like a dwarf - larger head with very short legs. Killa looks much more proportionate.
Is he a 2 pounder?


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Yes I don't agree with the baby doll face either, I absolutely hate them and think it totally detracts from how a poodle looks.
Both of her siblings have teeth issues. They both have horrid plaque build up even though they get their teeth brushed everyday and scaled at least once a month. Winter had to have 13 baby teeth extracted when he was neutered because they wouldn't come out, Branna only had 2-4 baby teeth extracted, but she has some missing premolars. They are just adult teeth that she never had so they never came in. So I am sure she will have some teeth issues I just hope having a smaller face won't make even more problems. I will have to get a few more pics of her at different angles so you can see it better. Also compared to my older ones because their snouts are twice as long as hers is. These are the only other pictures I have of her father. They are not very good, but yes he is very un-proportionate. He has a very big head and a very little body. 

















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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I do not see " baby doll faces" either - to be perfectly honest , maybe it is the picture angle, but the dad looks like a dwarf - larger head with very short legs. Killa looks much more proportionate.
> Is he a 2 pounder?
> 
> 
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Umm I think he ranges from 2.5-3 lbs. but I agree he does look like a dwarf in most of the pictures and in real life. 


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Fluffyspoos said:


> A 'baby doll face' is actually an incorrect face for poodles, I don't see why anyone would specifically breed for it. If you see her adult teeth coming in over the top of her juvenile teeth I'd help encourage them to come out. Loosen them with your fingers, give them gentle tugs, ect. Better than a shark mouth. I did this with a few of Cairo's more stubborn teeth, mostly since I was showing him I didn't want his bite being thrown off. No teeth problems with him as an adult.


I never knew you could encourage the teeth to come out or loosen. I always got scared when I would try to get the dangling teeth out, he would pull away (but not cry or scram) like it hurt so I stopped and just gave him chewy bones instead. His canine teeth were in there nice and solid though they never budged no matter what. 


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Caniche said:


> First of all, all three of those babies are CUTE! Especially Killa. My heart melts when I see her.
> 
> The black one (dad?) doesn't seem to have a baby doll face, nor does the white one (mom?). The white one's mouth does seem a bit....off, but it might be the photo.
> 
> ...


Thank you she melts my heart too. I never knew how much I would love the phantom markings! I agree the mom is definitely not a baby doll face but something does look off about her mouth. I never met her in person like I did the dad. 
I wonder if maybe Killa will be smaller than her siblings since her snout is so much shorter than her siblings but still she seems proportionate? Or maybe she just needs more time for it to grow? I guess only time will tell.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> Thank you she melts my heart too. I never knew how much I would love the phantom markings! I agree the mom is definitely not a baby doll face but something does look off about her mouth. I never met her in person like I did the dad.
> I wonder if maybe Killa will be smaller than her siblings since her snout is so much shorter than her siblings but still she seems proportionate? Or maybe she just needs more time for it to grow? I guess only time will tell.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


This is totally my thing, never heard anyone else say this, but I swear it works - @ 16 weeks, I believe that their nose is full grown, and the rest of their body grows to match it! Compare her nose size to the rest of the crew, and you will see exactly where she will wind up size-wise!
Sadly, her dad looks like he was bred for size ONLY :-( That is probably where her inherited physical problems come from...


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

It sounds like you went back to the same breeder? If you were having issues with your other puppies, why get another puppy from that breeder?


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Cairo's teeth, two weeks shy from 2 years old, with gentle encouragement to get a few out as a puppy. Massaging the gums and brushing teeth also helped get some out. Has never had a dental before.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> This is totally my thing, never heard anyone else say this, but I swear it works - @ 16 weeks, I believe that their nose is full grown, and the rest of their body grows to match it! Compare her nose size to the rest of the crew, and you will see exactly where she will wind up size-wise!
> Sadly, her dad looks like he was bred for size ONLY :-( That is probably where her inherited physical problems come from...


 Hmmmm, so Sept,20th she will be 16 weeks, at that point if her snout is still half the size of my other two does that mean she will be half their size? She is 2lbs right now which is similar to what Branna was at this age so I just figured she would be the same size as Branna. 
Yes he was def. bred for size only (maybe for color too but mostly for size). I am not sure if the physical issues she has is from her father or not, he is also the father of my other two and they never had any problems nor did their other litter mates, so I am not sure who she inherited the issues from.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Fluffyspoos, The breeder contacted me and asked if I could take this little girl for her. I don't know if you have seen my other posts about her,but she has a few issues and the breeder didn't want her going to just anyone so since she knows that I take really good care of my dogs she asked me if I could take her . Which I am so glad she did, she is the most adorable little dog ever! even if she does have a few deformities lol.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Cairo's teeth, two weeks shy from 2 years old, with gentle encouragement to get a few out as a puppy. Massaging the gums and brushing teeth also helped get some out. Has never had a dental before.


Wow those are some beautiful teeth! I would post a pic of my dogs teeth but it would be embarrassing, lol. Ill have to try encouraging Killa's teeth when she starts loosing them. Do you just massage the gums with your fingers or with the toothbrush?


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> Hmmmm, so Sept,20th she will be 16 weeks, at that point if her snout is still half the size of my other two does that mean she will be half their size? She is 2lbs right now which is similar to what Branna was at this age so I just figured she would be the same size as Branna.
> Yes he was def. bred for size only (maybe for color too but mostly for size). I am not sure if the physical issues she has is from her father or not, he is also the father of my other two and they never had any problems nor did their other litter mates, so I am not sure who she inherited the issues from.


I said nose, as in the thing with nostrils that she breaths through, not her muzzle lol!

Is she built square? By her weight now, I would think that she would finish @ 6plus, but ya know, they have to be 16 weeks for my official proclamation lol!

As for the Dad, hard to know exactly how things are passed on - maybe a recessive that both the Mom and Dad had to pass on the gene - that would mean the other puppies could be carriers. Were the Mom and Dad related? Correct me if I am wrong, but getting the impression that the breeder has one male breeding a bunch of bitches? Probably would be that the bitches are his daughters, no?


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Oooh, okay! That makes sense! Sorry I didn't mean any offense with the question, purely curiosity. Thank you! I used whatever would get the teeth out, but if you start brushing loose teeth and start seeing a lot of blood, don't freak out! They're not in any pain, it's just like little kids losing loose teeth, it stops bleeding really fast.

With Vegas, since he was a wiggly worm and bigger, I played tugged to encourage really loose teeth to come out.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I said nose, as in the thing with nostrils that she breaths through, not her muzzle lol!
> 
> Is she built square? By her weight now, I would think that she would finish @ 6plus, but ya know, they have to be 16 weeks for my official proclamation lol!
> 
> As for the Dad, hard to know exactly how things are passed on - maybe a recessive that both the Mom and Dad had to pass on the gene - that would mean the other puppies could be carriers. Were the Mom and Dad related? Correct me if I am wrong, but getting the impression that the breeder has one male breeding a bunch of bitches? Probably would be that the bitches are his daughters, no?


Lol,ok Ill let you know what she is at 16 weeks. she seems square to me but i'll have to do her measurements to be sure. She has a lot more meat on her bones than my other two ever had. 
I don't think the mom and dad are related. When I got Winter before she knew I alter all my dogs she made sure I knew that breeding related dogs together can result in a lot of problems with the pups and that it should not be done ever, so I don't think she would breed her dogs if they were related. I know the last litter she had she fell in love with a silver girl and ended up keeping her, she got her spayed once she was old enough. But yes you are correct she has one male breeding her bitches. She has 3 females a white one (Killa's mom), a chocolate one (she hasn't breed this one yet though, she is still to young), and a black one (Branna's mom). Winters mom was also white but she is a co ownership and she retired after having Winter and his siblings. I know she doesn't have the best breeding practices, but I do know that she cares a lot for her dogs.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Oooh, okay! That makes sense! Sorry I didn't mean any offense with the question, purely curiosity. Thank you! I used whatever would get the teeth out, but if you start brushing loose teeth and start seeing a lot of blood, don't freak out! They're not in any pain, it's just like little kids losing loose teeth, it stops bleeding really fast.
> 
> With Vegas, since he was a wiggly worm and bigger, I played tugged to encourage really loose teeth to come out.


They forgot to pull Teaka's deciduous teeth when she was spayed, and I was all pissed because I thought she was going to anesthesia again, but nope - they gave her a light sedative, and pulled them out in 2 minutes - watched her for 30 minutes, and then home she went - so it can't be that painful to pull them, because you know usually they want to give them anesthesia for the smallest things!


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Oooh, okay! That makes sense! Sorry I didn't mean any offense with the question, purely curiosity. Thank you! I used whatever would get the teeth out, but if you start brushing loose teeth and start seeing a lot of blood, don't freak out! They're not in any pain, it's just like little kids losing loose teeth, it stops bleeding really fast.
> 
> With Vegas, since he was a wiggly worm and bigger, I played tugged to encourage really loose teeth to come out.


Oh of course not, I understand the curiosity, and no offense was taken. I will keep the blood thing in mind, lol. I think Winter was just a big wimp when I tried to help him, lol, he is such a wimpy dog if I even kiss him wrong he gets upset.


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