# Advice Please



## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

I would like to get a toy poodle. I am interested in showing him and agility/obedience. Barbara Burdick of Barclay Poodles was recommended. I contacted her and she referred me to Paul Redding from Maryland. I called him and left a message on his machine. He called me back while I was in the car driving to see my dad in the hospital (today is his 90th B-day). Fortunately, dad is doing well but I did not ask good questions on the phone. I want to call him tomorrow. He has 2 platinum silver males 6 weeks old. I told him I want to visit him and his pups before making a decision and he was agreeable and very nice on the phone but seemed surprised that I would drive all the way there and come home with no puppy (I live in CT). Are these good questions: do you have a health guarantee, what kind of health testing do you do (what should I be looking for?) and may I have a copy of your sales contract. He did mention health tests on the phone but without my notes it is all greek to me. Has anyone heard of Paul Redding? Any advice will be appreciated.:confused2:


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

I'm not "in" toys--I have met Barbara Burdick at shows and also know her from other lists. But a quick search on Paul's name on Google turn up the sorts of hits that I like to see: Infodog (conformation), Westminster, PCA Obedience (he co-bred a Toy UD!), PCA Agility (different dog!), PCA Rally (different dog!), Washington Poodle Club Honor Roll of breeders of 10 or more Champions...

As for health testing, PRA is easy because it is a genetic test. I would ask about patellas and hips for LCP--explain that you are interested in agility. He should have OFA certification that the breeding pair have good results for patella and hips (LCP) evaluation. Here is a VIP link that summarizes some of the health testing for toys:

http://vipoodle.org/PDF_Files/TestsforToyPoodles.pdf

I think it is a great idea to meet the pups and the *mother* before making a decision. The sire may or may not be on the premises. I would want to see happy, confident dogs and puppies.


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## CT Girl (Nov 17, 2010)

Thank you Feralpudel. I saw those hits on the internet which sounded great to me but I have so much to learn and cannot at this point separate the gold from the dross. I really appreciate the feedback of someone who understands the finer points like you. He did say he had PRA. I will ask him about OFA and LCP. Thank you for the link. 

I can't wait to meet the pups and mother - he wants me to wait 3 weeks until the pups are older - and he probably wants to relax and enjoy Thanksgiving weekend. I am going to go to the dog show Thanksgiving weekend held at the Big E and try to learn more and maybe pick up some equipment for a new puppy. I have been reading old threads and had been learning a lot but I have a long way to go.


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

In a way, separating the gold from the dross is easier IMO in toys because you kind of fall off a cliff quality wise. And toys don't have the health issues you can't test for the way you have in standards--toys and minis are pretty healthy, and you have a DNA test for the problem that bedeviled breeders in the past (PRA). 

I think the bigger challenge can be finding a performance toy. But it looks like this breeder shows promise there, too, as toys from his lines are showing up in searches with UDs, agility titles, etc.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

*talking about toys....*

I am currently researching Mini's & toys as well as the small, small standards. Being a groomer I come across less then great conformation. Great personalities, poor knees. I have though come across several toy/oversized toys that are having seizure issues. 1 dog is under 1 year of age, the other is 4 years old & has Cataracts (being removed in 2011), both from the same owner, are seizures common in toy poodles & is there testing to see if this is genetic? Does one tell the "breeder" that offspring they produced is have seizures. Today they are taking the <1year old to a specialist to see if they can figure out the problem. He had 4 seizures on Friday night. I wouldn't have groomed him on Saturday if I had known. 

So, is there a test for genetic seizures? 

I know to ask for LP, PRA, & hips in the Mini's, Do I ask different questions to a breeder breeding Small Standards/Oversized Mini's?

thank you- great discussion


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## Feralpudel (Jun 28, 2010)

3dogs said:


> So, is there a test for genetic seizures?
> 
> I know to ask for LP, PRA, & hips in the Mini's, Do I ask different questions to a breeder breeding Small Standards/Oversized Mini's?
> 
> thank you- great discussion


There is no genetic test for epilepsy, but there is ongoing research:

http://www.vipoodle.org/PDF_Files/LICHT_Research.pdf

Please encourage the owners of the affected dogs to participate in any studies that are still seeking study subjects. Dr. Licht has been tremendously helpful on lists in the past helping poodle owners with newly diagnosed seizure disorders, and the owner might want to try contacting her. 

I don't know how common epilepsy is in any of the three varieties. I did mention to a mini breeder once that minis had many fewer health problems than standards, and her response was, "yes, but we have epilepsy, and it is becoming more common." 

When talking with a breeder, I suggest asking an open-ended, non-confrontational question such as "what health problems have you encountered in your lines, and how have you addressed those issues?" I am as interested in the second part of the answer as the first.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

*Thank you....*

I will without fail pass this info on to this couple. I would love to see the pedigree of these afflicted dogs. I think they should contact the "breeder" about these health concerns but coming from a BYB I don't have high hopes that they would really care. We can always try though.


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

Just now reading this thread.

I always have the same question when people ask whether or not they should tell the breeder....

If the breeder isn't told, how can the breeder know that the issue is there and make adjustments in their breeding program to limit any further cases?

I've seen many a breeder "hung out to dry" because they have repeatedly produced the same health issue, in more than one litter. Did anyone ever tell that breeder about the health issue? How can they "fix" a problem they don't know about?

We all want responsible breeders, but responsible breeders are dependant on responsible owners. I am well aware that many breeders are less than gracious when informed of a health issue in one of their offspring. I apologize. It is information that they need. Often when a breeder has had a chance to think about it, they are appreciative of the information.

BUT... not only should owners tell the breeder, they should also register the health issue with the Poodle Health Registry. Here are some of the reasons to do that:

1) so that the information is publicly available to all breeders so that they can make educated breeding decisions. 
2) in the case of an irresponsible breeder who rebreeds the same parents or lines, continuously reproducing that health issue, it is a heads up for prospective puppy buyers (the PHR database is available to everyone to lookup pedigrees, you merely need to request an access code. It is totally free of charge).
3)researchers and scientists use the Poodle Health Registry as a reference and a source of information when trying to determine prevalence of health issues, modes of inheritance, etc
4)PHR is an early warning system for new health issues or health issues which are suddenly increasing in prevalence.


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