# Help with Food/Suggestions



## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

I don’t like mixing toppers into kibble because it encourages some dogs to eat more than they would otherwise. And if it doesn’t work, the food has to be quickly tossed because it’s been contaminated.

Chicken and eggs are good treats, but we use Weruva Paw Lickin’ canned chicken at meal times because it’s a complete food. Peggy then free feeds on kibble throughout the day, and is hand-fed another type of kibble for training and rewards. She seems to thrive on the variety.


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## jessiemarielo (Jan 10, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I don’t like mixing toppers into kibble because it encourages some dogs to eat more than they would otherwise. And if it doesn’t work, the food has to be quickly tossed because it’s been contaminated.
> 
> Chicken and eggs are good treats, but we use Weruva Paw Lickin’ canned chicken at meal times because it’s a complete food. Peggy then free feeds on kibble throughout the day, and is hand-fed another type of kibble for training and rewards. She seems to thrive on the variety.


I never thought about hand feeding an alternative type of kibble for treats. Love that! With the Werva Paw Lickin' do you mix that with kibble or just that alone?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

jessiemarielo said:


> I never thought about hand feeding an alternative type of kibble for treats. Love that! With the Werva Paw Lickin' do you mix that with kibble or just that alone?


I feed it on a separate plate so it doesn’t contaminate the kibble. She gets a spoonful for breakfast and dinner, so I’m confident there’s something in her belly.

If she finishes her kibble at any point, we top it up. Any uneaten kibble is tossed at the end of the day.

Her “meal kibble” is Farmina. Her “treat kibble” is Honest Kitchen. Their Whole Food Clusters make really excellent treats.


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## jessiemarielo (Jan 10, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> I feed it on a separate plate so it doesn’t contaminate the kibble. She gets a spoonful for breakfast and dinner, so I’m confident there’s something in her belly.
> 
> If she finishes her kibble at any point, we top it up. Any uneaten kibble is tossed at the end of the day.
> 
> Her “meal kibble” is Farmina. Her “treat kibble” is Honest Kitchen. Their Whole Food Clusters make really excellent treats.


This is such great information. Thank you! I am currently using a food from Kirkland (Costco) all stages food. This is what his breeder had him on and I wanted to keep things the same but now that he won't eat much of it, I know I need to change it up. I didn't know that left over kibble could be contaminated 😨 

I am a first time pet owner, never had a dog in my life. All of this is new to me and I am still learning...but I want the very best for my Canyon. I love him!


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## jessiemarielo (Jan 10, 2021)

jessiemarielo said:


> This is such great information. Thank you! I am currently using a food from Kirkland (Costco) all stages food. This is what his breeder had him on and I wanted to keep things the same but now that he won't eat much of it, I know I need to change it up. I didn't know that left over kibble could be contaminated 😨
> 
> I am a first time pet owner, never had a dog in my life. All of this is new to me and I am still learning...but I want the very best for my Canyon. I love him!


Do you get Farmina from their website or from Chewy?


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

jessiemarielo said:


> This is such great information. Thank you! I am currently using a food from Kirkland (Costco) all stages food. This is what his breeder had him on and I wanted to keep things the same but now that he won't eat much of it, I know I need to change it up. I didn't know that left over kibble could be contaminated 😨
> 
> I am a first time pet owner, never had a dog in my life. All of this is new to me and I am still learning...but I want the very best for my Canyon. I love him!


Kibble, once opened, should be used fairly quickly. Some say 6 weeks. Some much less. That’s because of oxidation and is why I tend to trust my dogs when they turn up their nose at a food they previously enjoyed.

But kibble that’s been mixed with something like chicken or egg, and then left at room temperature, is going to become a bacteria farm. I wouldn’t leave it out for long, and I wouldn’t try to reuse it. Kind of like how you wouldn’t eat a rotisserie chicken if it was on the shelf at the grocery store rather than under a heat lamp or in the fridge.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

jessiemarielo said:


> Do you get Farmina from their website or from Chewy?


We generally get it from a local independent pet food store. They’re so knowledgeable and helpful. We try to support them as best we can.

But I’ve gotten it from Chewy in the past.

Peggy ate their large breed puppy formula until she was at least a year old. Now she’s eating the adult version: Ancestral Grains Chicken & Pomegranate. I let her choose the flavor from some samples.


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## Michigan Gal (Jun 4, 2019)

I feed the dogs raw, bone in. They eat it all up, no problems.

The cat gets kibble plus either some canned cat food or raw chicken with the bone in. I do this because cats are real finicky and I want her to recognize canned, kibble, and raw as food. However, I do not cut up the meat for her. She will eat the skin, then the muscle, then about half or more of the bone and rarely the whole thing in one sitting. I do not mix the kibble with the raw or canned.

I give little enough canned that she will eat it all, whine for more, then eat the kibble. The raw is put on a separate plate and left until she walks away from it, then I put it in the refrigerator. She's now big enough to finish a whole chicken thigh or drumstick within the day, but I never leave it out to become a bacteria farm.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

I wouldn't mix the two. 

Every day of Basil's life she's had 1 chicken thigh or 2 chicken legs (meat only) everyday for breakfast cooked by instant pot. Then, she gets a _special_ lunch at Grandma/Grandpas M-F. She's free-fed kibble during the day and night, the kibble fills her up between meals if she's hungry.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

PTP is quite right that adding toppers to dry kibble, unless the topper is also dry, is no different than leaving food out for longer than a short time before refrigerating or tossing. They'll be subject to the same bacterial growth which can cause serious problems for humans.

Unlike PTP, I do top my boys dry kibble with a small portion of whatever protein we had for dinner along with a bit of veggie and then add enough warm filtered water to gravy it up a bit. We've done this with our girls before also. Our vet was consulted and said that a small amount was going to be fine.

Remo is my unpredictable eater but still generally loves his current kibble. If he doesn't eat it tho, part or all, within 30m or so, I will pitch it since it has been mixed with the topper.

The kibble is measured and is less than the guidelines suggest since that amount is based on feeding only that kibble daily. I don't calculate topper portions by weight or calories, nor do I do that with treats but neither amount to much. I do monitor their weight and add if they're down, and reduce if they're up. 



jessiemarielo said:


> He has gone an entire day without eating.


This kind of heads into the tough love category. You'll see it repeated in a number of picky/fussy eater threads, "a healthy dog will not starve themselves", the key being healthy. If you could have waited him out (not easy), he would have eaten the plain kibble eventually.

I don't see why dogs should have to eat the same thing every day, tho, so we mix things up by adding those small amounts of different foods and flavors daily.

If you decide to transition him to a different food, just be sure to follow a slow transition plan, over 7-10 days and keep in mind that he may not like that one any better.

Some dogs benefit from rotational feeding but it works better for dogs who don't have existing digestive issues. OTOH, there's some reason to think that changing proteins up periodically may reduce occurrence of other food issues.


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## jessiemarielo (Jan 10, 2021)

Well, I went and bought the suggested kibble Farmina and Canyon seems to be loving it!!! I don't need to top it or anything. I am mixing it with the previous kibble from Kirkland but using less and less everyday. I didn't buy the Werva because it was just too expensive. However, I don't mind doing the 1 chicken thigh or 2 chicken legs suggested by Basil_the_Spoo.... I just need to know more information. Is this boiled, cooled then stored in the refrigerator? Do you give it cold? Do you give it for breakfast? Lastly, does chicken daily get boring for a dog and should I switch it up and do other proteins? Just thoughts running through my head. 

Thanks for all the info!


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## jessiemarielo (Jan 10, 2021)

Basil_the_Spoo said:


> I wouldn't mix the two.
> 
> Every day of Basil's life she's had 1 chicken thigh or 2 chicken legs (meat only) everyday for breakfast cooked by instant pot. Then, she gets a _special_ lunch at Grandma/Grandpas M-F. She's free-fed kibble during the day and night, the kibble fills her up between meals if she's hungry.


I just asked some questions below and just now realized you said "breakfast" and I was wondering if the chicken was for breakfast. Ok, got it. Do you cook it in advance and give it to Basil cold or cook it daily in the instant pot? Can you give me some ideas of what a _special _lunch might be? Do you do breakfast, lunch and dinner or just breakfast and lunch and kibble in between?


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

I cook a 5-6 days worth in advance, ~12 legs. In the instant pot with water. Then, once it cools I put the whole thing in the fridge. 

I microwave the leg meat for ~15 seconds after I debone it so it's Luke warm.

A special meal is something like cooked ground turkey and some bread lol. It's just a small snack more then anything:









Check what dog safe foods are. They tend to be the healthy foods we humans should be eating anyways.

I just leave kibble out for Basil all day. When you do that, it's called "free feeding". She just eats whenever she's hungry and stops when she is full.


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Glad Canyon is loving his new food!

I agree Weruva is expensive compared to kibble. But the reason I use it rather than straight muscle meat is that it’s a complete food, like kibble. So while it’s super palatable, and Peggy laps it right up, it still ensures she’s eating a balanced daily diet.

One large can lasts us 3-4 days. For less than $4 per can, I’m okay with that.

If I were to supplement her diet with human food (beyond the occasional treat) I would probably feed a variety.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

Just wanted folks to know. Asta loves hard boiled egg as a topper or for treats. He will even eat the shell. Very easy to make.


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## Basil_the_Spoo (Sep 1, 2020)

Asta's Mom said:


> Just wanted folks to know. Asta loves hard boiled egg as a topper or for treats. He will even eat the shell. Very easy to make.


Do you just do the whole egg, shell and all, unpeeled?

Are the shells Is it scratchy on their throat? What about the shells coming out the back end?

I saw a TikTok of a doberman eating egg shells and wasn't sure. Eggs are one of my staples in this season.


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## jessiemarielo (Jan 10, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Glad Canyon is loving his new food!
> 
> I agree Weruva is expensive compared to kibble. But the reason I use it rather than straight muscle meat is that it’s a complete food, like kibble. So while it’s super palatable, and Peggy laps it right up, it still ensures she’s eating a balanced daily diet.
> 
> ...


That makes a whole lotta sense. I didn't know one can lasted that long and that I can do!


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

jessiemarielo said:


> That makes a whole lotta sense. I didn't know one can lasted that long and that I can do!


Yeah, she literally gets just a spoonful in the morning and a spoonful at dinner time. Just on a small plate next to her kibble plate.

We refrigerate the open can with a lid like this one: https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/hrmy-can-lid-pink-2911895

I like that it fits multiple sizes.


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## jessiemarielo (Jan 10, 2021)

PeggyTheParti said:


> Yeah, she literally gets just a spoonful in the morning and a spoonful at dinner time. Just on a small plate next to her kibble plate.
> 
> We refrigerate the open can with a lid like this one: https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/hrmy-can-lid-pink-2911895
> 
> I like that it fits multiple sizes.


Thank you! I had no idea this type of stuff existed 🙈


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

Just know that we tried some of the other Weruva flavours and they made Peggy SOOOOO sick. The gas.... Ohhhhh the gas.

So we stick to the Paw Lickin’ Chicken.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

jessiemarielo said:


> I don't mind doing the 1 chicken thigh or 2 chicken legs


If your budget stretches to it, white meat chicken is going to be lower fat which is preferable for several reasons in your boys growth. Definitely skinless whether white or dark meat chicken. 

Standards are generally considered a larger breed, so there's some special requirements to consider.
Just checking to ask if you're feeding a large breed formula and to be cautious about foods with pulses. You want to keep protein up, fat down, calories lower than regular puppy food, proper balance of nutrients to slow bone growth just enough to reduce incidence of developmental orthopedic disease.


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## jessiemarielo (Jan 10, 2021)

Rose n Poos said:


> If your budget stretches to it, white meat chicken is going to be lower fat which is preferable for several reasons in your boys growth. Definitely skinless whether white or dark meat chicken.
> 
> Standards are generally considered a larger breed, so there's some special requirements to consider.
> Just checking to ask if you're feeding a large breed formula and to be cautious about foods with pulses. You want to keep protein up, fat down, calories lower than regular puppy food, proper balance of nutrients to slow bone growth just enough to reduce incidence of developmental orthopedic disease.


Do you cook it daily and give it warm/fresh? What is a food with pulse?


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

jessiemarielo said:


> Do you cook it daily and give it warm/fresh? What is a food with pulse?


If you're asking about the chicken, Basil_the_Spoo does the dark meat chicken, I believe as a meal, and explains how they do it in their post.

I add white meat chicken as a meal topper. It's always on the breakfast menu but evening meal toppers vary, depending on what we had for dinner. I cook up the package on one day, refrigerate a portion and freeze the rest to take out as needed. If I cook it before their morning meal, yes it's warm and fresh on that day. Any other day it will be heated up. I buy only a bit over a pound but it lasts almost two weeks. I also use the chicken for our daily "circus" performances.

Since the chicken isn't being fed to settle an unhappy GI system, I pan fry the boneless, skinless breast, usually as tenders, with no spices. This still adds flavor from the searing and then I make an au jus by adding (I use filtered) water to the pan after removing the chicken (and makes it easier to clean). The portion is small since it is just to top the kibble, probably the equivalent of a 1" cube, and shredded or pulled into teeny bits.

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Pulses are the seeds inside legumes. A peapod is the legume, the pea itself is the pulse. Over the last few years the FDA has been collecting information relating to diet and non-hereditary dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM).

At first, it was thought that grainfree dog foods could be the culprit but as the issue is being studied further by veterinary researchers they may be zeroing in on the primary cause.

When grains were removed (almost entirely a marketing tactic), other things were added, such as pulses, and likely in higher quantities. Pulses such as peas, chickpeas, and lentils are being looked at closely as a factor.

This may prove incorrect, but for now, whether feeding grainfree or with grains, review the ingredients list. If you see those listed in the first few ingredients, you'll probably want to avoid that food, at least until the research has clearer answers.

_About ingredient lists:

*Why you shouldn’t judge a pet food by its ingredient list*
Although ingredient lists are commonly used by pet owners and most pet food rating sites to determine the quality of pet foods, this approach has many pitfalls and usually is not a good way to select a food.
vetnutrition.tufts.edu

*Some tips on deciphering dog food labels from:*
Best Dog Food: How to Know What's Right for Your Dog (akc.org)
How to Read a Dog Food Label – American Kennel Club
Your best tool for deciding what to feed your dog is right on the can or bag. But first, you need to know how to read a dog food label.
www.akc.org www.akc.org

Pet Food Labels - General | FDA
Animal Food & Feeds | FDA
Pet Food Labels
The pet food label contains a wealth of information, if one knows how to read it.
www.fda.gov www.fda.gov_


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## PeggyTheParti (Sep 5, 2019)

The DCM thing is part of why I think variety is important. Just about any ingredient fed in excess can become problematic over time.

I feed a food with legumes (Honest Kitchen grain-free beef whole food clusters), but it only makes up part of Peggy’s diet, and the quantity varies day to day.


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

PeggyTheParti said:


> The DCM thing is part of why I think variety is important. Just about any ingredient fed in excess can become problematic over time.


That's a good point. I'd intended to continue rotating at least two different kibbles as a base for my boys but finding even one that Remo'd eat happily made me put that idea on a back burner. The homecooked toppers are a bit of variety at least.

Given the predictions we're seeing for shortages of dog food for the foreseeable future, along with all the rest, I should start looking again.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Just a reminder NEVER to feed cooked chicken bones! I'm not sure if it is mentioned above, but be extra careful with legs to make sure all the bones are removed. Raw, softish bones are safe; cooked bones can splinter and cause major damage.


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## jessiemarielo (Jan 10, 2021)

I found these two articles helpful and thorough. Many of the comments suggest Farmina (which I have already switched over to)...but according to the author, he is still reviewing that brand. Looks like Victor High-Pro Plus is a favorite amongst many. 

There are two articles, one that for dry food and canned food. 

Best Dog Foods Without Peas

Best Canned Dog Food


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## Rose n Poos (Sep 22, 2017)

I've only just skimmed so can't comment on the information but I do want to know what "James" credentials are. Is he a veterinarian or a degreed veterinary nutritionist?


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## Streetcar (Apr 13, 2014)

Rose n Poos said:


> I've only just skimmed so can't comment on the information but I do want to know what "James" credentials are. Is he a veterinarian or a degreed veterinary nutritionist?


On a hunch, I searched on Tufts canine nutrition, and hit a jackpot here: Clinical Nutrition Service at Cummings Veterinary Medical Center at Tufts University
Perhaps that could also be useful for Jessie.


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## calamityangie (Jun 23, 2021)

It sounds like you found your solution! But dropping in to say that I feed Acana limited ingredient line with wholesome grains (usually the duck and pumpkin/oats one, but occasionally mixing in one of the other proteins). I free feed so that Gus can eat when he feels like it and, for the most part, he's good to go. I also give raw meaty bones (RMB) three or four times a week - usually bison marrow bones, but occasionally beef, from our local raw food store. Remember, NEVER feed cooked bones, only feed raw bones. Cooked bones can splinter and cause gastro-intestinal issues.

When I feel like he hasn't eaten much for a few days (not really a problem since I switched him over to the Acana, but was sometimes an issue with his old kibble), I will grill a chicken breast with some bacon grease (just a tiny amount so it doesn't stick to the grill), shred it and mix it in with about a half a cup of kibble and some plain steamed brown rice (I usually steam my rice in my rice cooker with half bone broth and half water). As others have noted, they need to finish anything you mix in with kibble right away or you have to throw it out, so I just put down a little at a time as needed. I have also poured warm bone broth over kibble when he was recovering from surgery or otherwise seemed under the weather. Either works to get his appetite back up!


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