# Wrong class?



## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Am I going to the wrong class? My teacher seems to set the bar too high, let's Noelle crash into the bar, and then backs up a little bit to meet her where she's at.

For example. Loud noise distraction. Instead of making one sudden loud noise, then two, then three, and going up, she started with several loud noises. All of the dogs started barking. Noelle got very scared and confused. Normally, Noelle doesn't mind loud noises. I noticed over the weekend, she's now jumpy when I banged the barbecue grill and she wasn't jumpy before. 

Once the dogs were upset, the teacher lowered the bar to one noise, click, treat. All three dogs in my class were successful. But, why start with such drama and let them all fail?

Recalls.

We had our dogs on long lines. We were each supposed to call our dogs one at a time. The two other dogs were supposed to stay. Noelle went first. I called Noelle, all three dogs started running. The labradoodle ran for Noelle wanting to play and scared her, so she hid between my legs. The worst part was, Noelle was supposed to come and the other dogs were supposed to stay, so it felt like Noelle got punished for doing the right thing.

Maybe the teacher is trying to figure out where we're all at so to speak. It's only our second class. Now that our teacher knows our dogs better, maybe tomorrow will be better. Here's hoping.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I agree - too much too soon. I would be particularly concerned if it is undermining her confidence in any way. If the instructor does not revise her methods at the next class I would either drop out, or ask for a list of the following weeks exercises so that you can rehearse them little by little at home. And I would tell her about the BBQ experience - if no one ever speaks up there is no reason for her to change he way she does things.


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## rj16 (Jan 30, 2017)

This sounds familiar...

The BBQ incident would really make me question whether to go back at all but like you said, the trainer may just be getting a feel for the dogs. I would go, mention the BBQ incident, see if things get better but not hesitate to leave if they don't.

I think it is good to set clear criteria in these situations. Probably no trainer/facility is going to be absolutely perfect. But what are you willing to compromise on?


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Wow, and not in a good way. I think the trainer is pushing too hard, too fast.

I can only compare this to the two classes I took - the CGC and the ACGC. TDI was incorporated into both classes. I've also had several more advanced obedience classes as I prepare for obedience and rally competition.

For CGC and ACGC, my trainers would randomly, unexpectantly, through the class overturn a grocery store cart, throw a metal folding chair or drop a clip board producing loud, sudden, scary noises. They walked through each class on crutches, walkers, wheelchairs and did some other things that produced repetitive noise. These could be scary to dogs but they weren't loud. The trainers went up to each dog to expose them, but only came as close as the dog was comfortable, inching closer each week so the dogs grew more confident. They did not make loud noises continuing until the dogs were upset. That does not sound like a good way to train dogs. I would expect the opposite is more effect to build up their ability to tolerate noise. Dogs were allowed to look in the direction of the noise and to have a startle reaction, but they had to settle down quickly, not bark and not be agitated.

For both the CGC, ACGC when the dogs were on 6' leads, all the dogs/owners were lined up and spaced 8’ or more apart in the class. All had to sit/lay down while we walked to the end of our leash and then called our dogs. Everyone did this at the same time. 

When the dog was on the long line for the - I can't remember I think one was 15' and the other class 20' recalls - those were done one dog at a time while the other dogs waited off to the side with their owners. In this exercise there is enough room for a dog to build up speed and excitement when running. Seeing another dog run and excited is very enticing to other dogs. Having three dogs that are new to this exercise performing next to each other is setting everyone up for failure. Dogs need to learn the basic behavior first and then you work on proofing, making it more difficult. In only your second class, you’re still learning the basic behavior.

It does sound as you say, "My teacher seems to set the bar too high, let's Noelle crash into the bar, and then backs up a little bit to meet her where she's at." I haven't experienced that style of teaching.

What are your other options for classes in your area? Can you discuss the way the trainer is handling the loud noises? Maybe she can adjust her approach so the dogs are desensitized over time without being made upset?

BTW you don't have to take a class to get your CGC. You can register and pay to take the test. I know in both my classes several people who were unknown to the trainer showed up just to take the exam. I needed the class because I was still new to learning how to train my dog, needed exposure to noises and wheelchairs etc. and the other members of the class and their dogs to practice with so I would be prepared to pass the exam. You and Noelle are much further advanced than I was when I took this course.


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## LizzysMom (Sep 27, 2016)

Everytime I read your posts about your training classes, I just find myself thinking that you know more about training than your instructors do, and you should be teaching the class! And, even I, with my EXtremely limited training knowledge, can see that the instructor in this class is working backwards!


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Yeah, my Spidey sense was tingling in the last class. Noelle was fine with wheelchairs and walkers. Then my teacher thumped a walker super loudly near her and it scared her. I swear, I feel like I've thrown Noelle in the deep end of the pool in this class. 

Then again, we don't have to participate in every exercise. We can go and do our own thing. For example, the moving a walker near the dog is part of the therapy dog test. Noelle isn't going to be a therapy dog. So we can go and play look at that from a distance.

Sit for petting is getting better thanks to this class, so if all we get out of it is a lot of practice sitting for petting, the grooming exam and supervised separation, then all is well. Today, if anything scares my dog, I'll speak up.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Click-N-Treat said:


> Yeah, my Spidey sense was tingling in the last class. Noelle was fine with wheelchairs and walkers. Then my teacher thumped a walker super loudly near her and it scared her. I swear, I feel like I've thrown Noelle in the deep end of the pool in this class.
> 
> Then again, we don't have to participate in every exercise. We can go and do our own thing. For example, the moving a walker near the dog is part of the therapy dog test. Noelle isn't going to be a therapy dog. So we can go and play look at that from a distance.
> 
> Sit for petting is getting better thanks to this class, so if all we get out of it is a lot of practice sitting for petting, the grooming exam and supervised separation, then all is well. Today, if anything scares my dog, I'll speak up.


Definitely speak up, and speak up before today's class about the way the noises are presented. Also make it clear what your goals are - CGC and not therapy dog training. Let the trainer know you'll back away during some of the therapy dog training so you can keep Noelle in her comfort zone. 

I'm so surprised by this. You have far more experience training and Noelle has been out in the community in real world situations. My goodness, going into grocery stores and shopping with a grocery cart is far more difficult than what I experienced in my class. 

When I took CGC, my only other dog training experience was the 8 week class I had just had with one of the worlds most miserable trainers. I was so new to this, so green. This was also the first time I started to take Babykins into stores to train and probably her first experience with walkers and wheelchairs etc. Noelle has seen this, done this and bought the T shirt. If you're having problems in the class, I can't imagine what some of the other people are having.


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

She doesn't sound like a great trainer to me. Definitely too much too soon. She should be told. Some dogs can be forever affected by something too scary and they don't make good citizens or therapy dogs if they're ruined. So if she doesn't get the picture, maybe another class is in order. Or just do it yourself. You totally know better than she does.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

Poodlebeguiled,

that is exactly what I am afraid of. I've put a tremendous amount of effort training Noelle gently, exposing her to ever increasing challenges. However, this class does seem to go over the top and then back up, which isn't how I train.

Yes, Noelle does need to have strong nerves for this work, but she's also a flaky 18 month old half dog/half puppy. I think we'll play look at that and happy fun games during the therapy dog challenges. There's no requirement that Noelle hold still while a wheelchair rolls past her. She's seen plenty of walkers and wheelchairs, scooters, grocery cart scooters, and isn't phased by them... yet.

However, if Noelle thought someone was trying to scare her with a wheelchair, that could undo so much, so, so, so much work. Just like a dog attack could undo so much work

I'll speak to the teacher. We'll skip all therapy dog exercises and just work on attention and loose leash walking.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

Click-N-Treat, is there any requirement that she passes the CGC exam? 

My Babykins is sensitive and I have to be very careful sometimes in exposure too so that she is resilient. I would hate to have my dog set back by a poor trainer.


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## poshandpoodles (Mar 22, 2017)

I'm curious how long this instructor has been teaching. Even as a new instructor it would be hard for me to imagine that someone would think that type of instruction is the most beneficial. What class are you taking now with Noelle and how many have you taken in the past at this center?

We haven't done CGC ( I want to but the center I attend now doesn't offer it to my knowledge) but have done the basic obedience classes (lvl 1 through 3). Our instructors had us work on comes one by one while the other dogs sat along the wall with their owners. The center we train at is all about easing your dog into things. You need to be able to reward successes and build up from there. You have the right mindset thinking this is too much for Noelle. You know her best. Respect her cues and go with your gut on this one.


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## Click-N-Treat (Nov 9, 2015)

So, we're back from class. I spoke to the teacher about not scaring Noelle, and nothing scary happened. Nothing at all. Noelle had an absolute blast. She sat for petting, sat for grooming, got her feet touched, tail touched, managed to sit anyway. She's learning impulse control and it's starting to work. The teacher is getting good at reading Noelle and helping me figure out how to keep her from leaping up and just maintaining her calm.

Noelle nailed the down/stay sit/stay recall game. There was much less ring sniffing and a whole lot more happy dog. At one point, a dog started making a fuss and she got a little nervous, so I played, "if you're happy and you know it you should sit." Which got her happy and wiggling. Noelle had a ball. I had fun too.

I'm glad I said something! It was a successful class for all of our dogs. A little brag here on Miss Noelle. Noelle was the only dog who remained in a sit/stay while someone else called their dog to come. She didn't break her stay, and when it was her turn to come, Noelle came flying. Yay, Noelle!


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

I am so glad this class was better. Hopefully it will remain this way. 

You are a natural trainer and very intuitive, if things don't work with this class, I know you will still be able to explain to Noelle exactly what is needed from her and still have her enjoying doing it. You have a rare gift, don't forget that.


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## Skylar (Jul 29, 2016)

I'm so glad you had a talk with the teacher and the class is now working well for you.


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## poshandpoodles (Mar 22, 2017)

So happy it was a success! Way to go Noelle!


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