# Help, a friend is looking at goldendoodles



## momofthree (Apr 9, 2011)

I saw a golden doodle at the beach not too long ago. It was cute, and his owner let me pet him. My hands and clothes were covered in fur!! Please tell your friend that these mixes are very likely to shed! And, also they breed from the bottom of the gene pool, since no decent breeder of a purebred will allow their dog to be bred to another breed. So, you are not getting the offspring of a well -bred anything! And, then you are often paying more than you would for a pup from champion, fully health tested parents. When I realized all of these things, I knew that I would never purchase a doodle of any kind. It just plain doesn't.make.sense.

I know I'm preaching to the choir, though!

I'm not sure about CO , but how far is Utah? Desert Reef in St. George would be an excellent choice. Oh, and I think there is one that Schnauzerpoodle recommends in CO?? Maybe she will read this and respond. I can't remember the name, but it sounded like she was an amazing breeder.

Good for you for trying to steer your friend in the right direction  ! I hope it works!


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## momofthree (Apr 9, 2011)

I found this one...CNC Standard Poodles have never heard of them, but they look like they are doing the right things....and they are in the right State  . I did read that they don't have puppies right now, but to call for referrals. Hope this helps!


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

If your friend had a bad experience with a Standard Poodle, I think you're not going to be able to talk her into looking at Standard Poodles, and you'll have to respect that. But, if she had a bad experience with a Toy or Mini, you might be able to reach her by talking about how much different and more stable the well-bred Standards are. Now, we here know that a *good* Toy or Mini is just as good and stable as a spoo, but it could be your friend had a problem with one of the many poorly bred, puppy mill, or BYB small poodles that are sadly very common in the general population.

If it really is the "poodle look" she doesn't like, direct her to some pictures of spoos in teddy bear cuts (just google it), looking very doodley, or in practical hunting cuts.

I think you have to be very careful about pointing out the bad things about doodles. As anyone with a teenage girl with an unsavory boyfriend can tell you, something clicks in when you talk something down that makes them want that thing even more! Still, I don't think you're wrong to point out the things you mentioned already, just have to be careful with your presentation. You could point out that the doodle will require lots of grooming, and the more like a poodle's hair it is (therefore the more "hypoallergenic"), the more professional grooming it will need.

You might make a point by telling her about health testing, especially for hips. Do doodle breeders do health testing?

If she's dead set against a Standard Poodle, and you still want her to avoid supporting the designer dog breeders, perhaps mention other large breeds with that sort of look and supposed non-shedding thing. Old English Sheepdog? Otter hound? (well, I'm sure they shed, but no more than a doodle!)

Good luck in your efforts, but don't hold your breath on changing her mind. Some people are going to do what they want, regardless of any logic or valid reasoning that would take them in a different direction.

--Q


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## wickednag (Nov 30, 2011)

I have seen goldendoodles and have thought oh my how cute is that pup/dog but I have said that same thing about many of the mixed breeds I have seen. If I were looking to get a mixed breed go to the local shelter and save a life. The pup you get will be a crap shoot just like going to look at pups from an uneducated breeder. 

Hope your friend comes to her senses... I love my Hazel and I am so glad I have a purebred dog!


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

You could suggest your friend looks into a dog of an 'endangered' rare breed. Breeders of these dogs need more demand for their puppies as the gene pools are small, so it's a much more positive choice than buying a fad mongrel puppy. Some of these dogs, such as the Otterhound, have a shaggy look, and others, such as the Irish Water Spaniel and Kerry Blue Terrier etc., have low-shed coats that might fit well with the look or traits this person wants. Here is a list.


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## wickednag (Nov 30, 2011)

I love the Irish Water Spaniel... love them but lots of energy so you need to be prepared. I thought long and hard about one before deciding on Hazel as our newest family member.  Have never regretted our decision


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## Lily's-Mom (May 31, 2012)

And I have to throw in to remind your friend about the grooming requirements of a poodle. A lot of people think "non-shed" and "hypoallergenic", but forget about the extensive grooming and clippings necessary, even in a 'doodle dog.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

My experience with doodles is they do shed plus they matt like crazy because of the mix of hair. Doodles must be groomed just like a poodle. momofthree made excellent points about them being bred from the bottom of the gene pool for poodle and goldens. 

I have a friend at work who asked me how I could like those viscious poodles. I said, "huh?" Apparently she was mauled by a miniature poodle as a kid and has hated them ever since. I do think some mini's in years past had horrible temperaments, but it seems like that trait is not as prevalent as it used to be. 

Tell your friend to please go look at standard poodles first. Once she meets one, it should change her perception. Also, show her this forum so she can ask about poodles or at least read about them. If she doesn't like poodles at all, there are a number of other breeds that don't shed. Remind her that you can shave a poodle down and have quite a manly looking dog.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Caution her to wait and do her research and join poodle forum. Then decide.


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## annadee (May 15, 2012)

Unfortunately, just because another breed is crossed with a poodle, doesn't mean they will get the desired hypo-allergenic coat. They could actually have a coat more similar to the Golden Retriever, since there is no guarantee of how a mixed breed will look like. You should tell her that... and try to suggest other breeds of hypo-allergenic dogs... unfortunately there's nothing more you can really do.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Lily's-Mom said:


> And I have to throw in to remind your friend about the grooming requirements of a poodle. A lot of people think "non-shed" and "hypoallergenic", but forget about the extensive grooming and clippings necessary, even in a 'doodle dog.


My groomer hates grooming doodles. She says their coats are impossible to work with. She either won't do it, or charges 50% more. I don't know if all groomers feel that way or not.

Maybe a good idea to find out more about her bad poodle experience? It might be easier to be helpful to her if you understand where she is coming from. Maybe a portuguese water dog would be good if she doesn't want a poodle, but wants to minimize alergies?

In the end, I think it is good to keep in mind that many people are very happy with mutts of all sorts, including doodles. Best IMO to steer her towards a poodle (or another breed), but if she ends up getting a doodle, at least she has a DOG!


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## momofthree (Apr 9, 2011)

Maybe she would consider a Wheaton Terrier? Others made the suggestions of Irish Water Spaniel, and Curly Coated Retriever...good suggestions as well ( but I think might typically be higher energy than a spoo?)

Bummer that she had such a bad experience with a poodle in the past. I did,too ( what Outwest says is true about ill- bred minis being everywhere a few years ago!) But fortunately, I had also met great ones, so I knew it wasn't an issue of the whole breed having bad temperaments. Maybe if she was to at least meet with a good breeder, while she is conducting her search, she would see what a well bred spoo is all about. I think to meet a good one is to fall head over heels  .


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

I just wanted to add that if it is in fact the case she doesn't want a poodle because of a bad experience, why is she looking at a poodle mix? The dog is just as likely to have the personality of a poodle as it is to have the personality of a golden (the "half and half" ideal almost never happens). 

I would encourage her to go and spend time with several different breeds, and then make her decision. Meet goldenXpoodle mixes, poodles, Portuguese Water Dogs, Old English Sheepdogs, Giant Schnauzers (just throwing out some low-shedding breeds here). I would imagine if she actually went and hung out with a poodle mix for a day, she would be able to see that they do, in fact, shed, and typically have less than stellar personalities. And if they hung out with a poodle for a day, they would probably change their minds about the breed. 

GOOD breeders will let you come and visit and meet and hang out with their dogs. Also remember that lots of poodle mixes, even puppies, end up in shelters and rescues. I would do some research on puppy mills and the living conditions of the dogs, and how the breeders are just looking to make a quick buck, and steer her toward searching local rescues for poodle mixes instead of buying from a breeder. I think a lot of times we give the wrong impression. It's not that the mixes are "bad" or less deserving of homes than a purebred, it's just that to purchase one from a breeder is to support inhumane, unethical breeding practices and continue to feed an industry that is built on lies and the suffering of dogs.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

peppersb said:


> My groomer hates grooming doodles. She says their coats are impossible to work with. She either won't do it, or charges 50% more. I don't know if all groomers feel that way or not.!


My groomer refused to do doodles for a while. I saw one in there last time I took Bonnie and asked her about it. She said she had relaxed her stance because she felt sorry for the doodles (and owners), but charges more for doodles because they are always matted even if they come in regularly. She told me one lady with a doodle gave up and has the dog shaved down practically bald now. She also complained many of them are squirrely to work with. Now, mind you, my groomer loves poodles and is antidoodle, so her comments might be colored by that, but I believe what she says.


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

However if she does want a doodle, there are tons of them in rescues, so she could still get what she wants without supporting the doodle breeders.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I know of a family that has 3 doodles, all from rescue and they love them dearly. They did not want to add to the breeding of them , but felt they needed good homes as much as any poodle... I agree. However, the shedding is almost unbearable. If you friend wants a doodle, please encourage her to take one out of rescue and everyone will be happy.


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## LEUllman (Feb 1, 2010)

Our poodle rescue Southern Cal Poodle Rescue routinely has doodles. They have a labradoodle and a schnoodle righ now. I'm told they get dumped (might as well call it what it is) when the cute little puppy grows into a high energy, high shedding, 70 lb. giant of a dog, one that needs serious training, expensive grooming, and lots of exercise. "He needs more attention than we can give him" is a common excuse.

Check out the doodle sites. All the focus is on the puppies. Grown-up dogs, not so much. Gee, I wonder why . . . .


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## qtpoodle (Jan 15, 2012)

The problem is that I don't want to scare her away so I have to choose my words very carefully. I didn't want to point out that they breed from the bottom of the gene pool or they're mixed breeds with a huge price tag and a lot of hype. I'm sure the breeder of the doodles will somehow make it seem like they have the best poodle and golden and that their particular dogs have a history of being shed free, cute, and sweet. 

I'm all for rescues because my dogs are rescues, and the best dog I've had was a mix who lived almost 18 years and was smart, sweet, and mellow the whole time. I just can't imagine purposely breeding for mixed dogs because there are way too many that need homes. Even purebred dogs are too often found in shelters and rescues. I got purebred dogs from shelters and rescues particularly so I can show people that beautiful, young, and sweet dogs can be found in rescues and shelters. Everybody asks where I got my dogs, and their shocked to hear that they're rescues. Well, my tpoo, Westen, was technically not from a rescue, but he was going to end up in one like most of the other dogs the breeder had if I didn't take him.

Somebody had mentioned a Soft Coated Wheaten to her. I hope she goes for it. I don't know if my friend can get a rescue doodle because her daughter is 6 years old, and they've never had a dog. Anybody know of any doodles in rescue in CO?


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## Poodlelvr (Mar 13, 2010)

Check Petfinder. When I look there under Poodle, there are plenty of doodles. Many of dogs are listed under doodle rescue sites.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

If they aren't up for adopting a dog & don't want a Poodle then I suggest the Portie. They have a similar coat type at least the "curly type" but they also have the "wavy", they tend to be smaller than the Spoo & many don't have the "drive" of their original working heritage. 
I know that there was a huge seize in Florida on Poodle, Doodle etc.... many of my facebook groomers groomed these seized dogs from a PM. Many of them are being fostered BUT that might be too long of a drive. 

If your friends are deadset on a "doodle" from a "breeder" then the best suggestion is to give them as much positive knowledge you have about finding a pup from a breeder. I think there are probably various levels of "doodle" breeding. Might want to find somebody that breeds for therapy work. I came across DADS Labradoodle's in Florida that train Seizure Alert dogs with their "doodles". I am buy no means for breeding the mixed breed dog BUT if somebody is deadset on it then be a wealth of knowledge.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

There's really no such thing as a good doodle breeder. I'd either urge a rescue, or an otterhound, which looks very similar to the doodle type dogs.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Or just show her this picture, which is all poodle, just a fuzzy clip

Am I Not Helping You? [Fergus 14/52] | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## CTLJS (Nov 21, 2011)

The dog park I go to, there are lots of labradoodles and some goldendoodles. They seem like sweet and goofy dogs but they're coats look like nightmares to me. Either the owners had to shave them down completely because they couldn't cope with them or they're matted messes and I mean matted solid at the skin. One comes up to me routinely and I can't even pet him thats how notted up his fur is. 

We have shelters near our house where thre are many mixed poodles. I hope your fiiend adopts.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Fluffyspoos said:


> There's really no such thing as a good doodle breeder. I'd either urge a rescue, or an otterhound, which looks very similar to the doodle type dogs.


Someone interested in a doodle might not like an Otterhound. They are cute and sweet, but SMELLY, very houndy smell, pee-yew! (Just not for me!)


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

PaddleAddict said:


> Someone interested in a doodle might not like an Otterhound. They are cute and sweet, but SMELLY, very houndy smell, pee-yew! (Just not for me!)


lol, so are Golden Retrievers and Labs, and potentially any mutt derived from them.  Apparently IWS and PWD are supposed to not smell.


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## MyMiles (Apr 21, 2012)

I'm with 3dogs- if she is going to buy from a breeder and absolutely doesn't want a poodle, Porties are a great option. I grew up with one who still lives with my parents- no dog smell unless she rolled in something.  She's shorter than the a Spoo, but stockier, so she weighs about the same as Miles. 
I don't know about the drive thing- Mollie was pretty high drive in her younger days, but at 13 years old has lost a lot of it. Her hair is also soo much softer than Miles- like petting velvet when she is clipped short. 
I may be biased, but I think Porties and Poodles are some of the best dogs to have around.


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## Anntig (Jun 9, 2010)

What about a barbet? I think they're pretty much what the doodle breeders were originally aiming for appearancewise and have the advantage of being a long established breed so you know what you are getting. Although they are rare I know there are breeders in the US and it would be nice to see more of them out there.


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## Ladywolfe (Jan 11, 2012)

Show your friend this video, so she realizes what she will be getting into:


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## qtpoodle (Jan 15, 2012)

Ladywolfe said:


> Show your friend this video, so she realizes what she will be getting into:
> 
> Royal Diamond Labradoodles, The Body, Hand Scissor Cut.mov - YouTube


What does the person in the video mean by they don't shed, they molt? If hair is coming off their bodies, then that's shedding? Is there a difference with shedding and molting? I guess they shed all year and they molt a huge amount of hair a couple times a year. I just don't get it. Are they trying to get these dogs to breed true so they can have a new breed or are they just wanting to keep making mixed breed dogs?


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## Arcticfox (Dec 12, 2011)

When people say molt I generally associate that with the way some dogs blow their coats a couple times a year. Shedding is year-round. I don't know if that's what it actually means though.


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## pgr8dnlvr (Aug 7, 2011)

There is a line of labradoodles in Australia that already do breed true. The original creator bred them for service dogs. He genetically tracked every dog in the breeding program and I believe registered them after a certain number of generations were tracked. 

We have one client with an import labradoodle from the original lines and it was not only very expensive for the owner to ship, but came with a very impressive package of information and as much breeder support as one could offer from another continant! The dog had been released from the service dog program first though and then come up for adoption. 

Anyway, yeah, almost all of the labradoodles out there though are not the "labradoodle" that people think/hope they are getting.

Rebecca

ps- this one doesn't seem to shed or moult?...


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

There is also a service dog school in GA (Canine Assistants Organization) that breeds true-breeding goldendoodles. Their lines are generations long, and they actually don't seem to shed (I've only been around a couple of them, and neither of the ones I met seemed to shed while I was around it). 

BUT I would say breeding programs like this are definitely in the minority. And the dogs always looked so unkempt. I met a cut golden x poodle mix the other day who was 3/4 poodle, 1/4 golden (at this point, I don't understand why you don't just get a poodle) but when I petted her, I had to try really hard to hide my disgust. She appeared to be brushed out on the surface, but I could feel hard mats all underneath. I felt so bad for her


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

qtpoodle said:


> What does the person in the video mean by they don't shed, they molt? If hair is coming off their bodies, then that's shedding? Is there a difference with shedding and molting? I guess they shed all year and they molt a huge amount of hair a couple times a year. I just don't get it. Are they trying to get these dogs to breed true so they can have a new breed or are they just wanting to keep making mixed breed dogs?


lol, I like how in the video Vivaldi is playing and there is cursive script and terms like 'authentic', yet the dog looks like some kind of generic spaniel type that has chased a cat around a haybarn, and doesn't come out much tidier after it's been trimmed.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Thanks for the video. Very interesting. So labradoodles need to be groomed, but the result is a dog that looks like it hasn't been groomed? I'm not sure why anyone would want the expense of grooming for a result like that. 

The coat looks impossible as she is grooming it. Now I know why my groomer refuses to groom doodles. 

I agree with Zyrcona. LOL. You can have an elegant presentation (Vivaldi, cursive script, the controlled professional voice of the groomer...), but that doesn't make the dog look like anything other than a friendly mutt.


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## Ladywolfe (Jan 11, 2012)

I so agree with everything said. I posted the video mostly for humor. But, I also found it to be the best good view of that coat. Yep, I bet what she means IS they shed constantly, and then just molt a couple times a year.  I am having enough trouble learning to groom a poodle; that coat is terrifying to me.


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## qtpoodle (Jan 15, 2012)

The dog in the video is very cute, and he looks better after his grooming. That was a lot of grooming for that result though. That coat scared me. I can't imagine trying to keep it up even if it didn't shed. The thing is that not all doodles will have a curly coat so you never know what they'll look like once they're grown up. I've seen some that mostly look like a lab or a golden or many that have wiry hair. That video makes it seem like they all look like that and that's how to properly groom all of them.


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## Lou (Sep 22, 2012)

qtpoodle said:


> A friend of mine has never had a dog. She is now looking at *goldendoodle *puppies. I know her husband has allergies which could be why they are looking into these supposed hypoallergenic dogs. She didn't mention why she wanted a doodle, but I assume that's why. She is nowhere near me so she has never met my poodles. I also have a mini and a toy, and I think they want a big dog.


Well.... I heard a lot of people consider doodles so the dog doesnt look "that" look... ya know.... I love all the spoos hair cuts but..

She can have her poodle LOOK like a doodle if she wants without the disadvantages of the doodles!







[/url] Lou take me out to potty face-in front of leash and door lol by Lou Standard Poodle, on Flickr[/IMG]


Lou sleeping on floor long hair 5mo by Lou Standard Poodle, on Flickr

*Look at my dear Lou, everyone asks if she is a goldendoodle and she is full complete pure standard poodle!  show her that they can have the teddy bear look... *


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