# Sassy Barking



## Tsays (Jan 21, 2014)

I think we're entering the "rebellious" stage with Stella. 

She has started barking at us when we issue a command like "come" and "sit." Sometimes its accompanied with a lip curl. Sometimes she does it when she's very excited (right before the walk) and sometimes she just does it when she doesn't feel like doing what I ask. 

The barking isn't "aggressive" as much as it is "challenging" to the authority. 

If you've been through this, how did you get fix the problem? Is this an "age" thing or something more serious? :afraid:


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

If it is over excitement I ignore it, and wait it out. Poppy will occasionally go into excitement yapping mode, and I find adding any energy to the situation just gets us both wound up even more. It can also mean frustration, and then I try to go back to easy basics with frequent rewards for a bit, and make sure the reward - whether praise or toy or treat - comes very quickly.


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## bailey1 (Feb 3, 2014)

*OMG! Barking!*

This "sassy barking" seems to be what's going on with Marti, also, and it's driving us crazy! Let me add that we've been working on his barking, only it seems to have taken on a whole new life. I know I'm failing somewhere with this issue, and I've been very diligent with all the suggestions on stopping this behavior, so basically this is just me ranting. sorry.:banghead:


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

bailey1 said:


> This "sassy barking" seems to be what's going on with Marti, also, and it's driving us crazy! Let me add that we've been working on his barking, only it seems to have taken on a whole new life. I know I'm failing somewhere with this issue, and I've been very diligent with all the suggestions on stopping this behavior, so basically this is just me ranting. sorry.:banghead:


are you working with a trainer? i've never had occasion to do so, but a lot of pf members put barking "on command" with their dogs to help control it. it's one way of teaching a dog when it's appropriate and acceptable to bark. no guarantees that there will ever be complete control, but it has helped a number of people (and their dogs).


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## SteviM95 (Jul 9, 2014)

*Mine too!*

My 11 week led is definitely back talking with her sassy barking. She does it when I correct her. I'm working with a trainer from Bark Busters, because even though I love my new puppy, she is challenging - I've never had a puppy that bites hard & doesn't seemed to be phased by corrections. The corrections will usually distract her long enough for me to redirect her to something I can praise her for...or she barks at me & then jumps to bite my pants (bad dog!). I was so disappointed when my trainer advised against teaching her to bark on command (she only barks at me - not noises outside). Today she started barking at her Kong when the treat didn't fall out quickly enough. But even though this sounds really bad, she is doing really well on lots of other things & even improving on puppy biting, AND she's walking without sassing me as much as before (she hates to walk - just randomly stretches out on the sidewalk, but will have enough energy to pounce & bite if I stop to pat my leg).


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

what was the reason your trainer offered for not putting bark on command?


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## SteviM95 (Jul 9, 2014)

patk said:


> what was the reason your trainer offered for not putting bark on command?


Her reasoning is that Bindi is not a nuisance barker, so I should correct her bad behavior when she is sassing me & not encourage any other barking. So far, Bindi has not barked at the door or people outside the window, etc


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## poolann (Jan 31, 2013)

SteviM95 said:


> Her reasoning is that Bindi is not a nuisance barker, so I should correct her bad behavior when she is sassing me & not encourage any other barking. So far, Bindi has not barked at the door or people outside the window, etc


Personally I'm not sure how I feel about your trainer's response. IMO any barking provides an opportunity to teach a command to start & stop. Oh well, all trainers are different which is a good thing since all clients/dogs don't work well with all trainers  Not to say that this trainer is not working well with you & your pup 

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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

Teaching an incompatible behavior is one of the best ways to get it under control. One of the best methods I've seen and used on my own Chihuahuas is Jean Donaldson's bark training. It's important to read her method and get the sequence of cues, responses and so forth straight. Gradually getting to the point where you put it on stimulus control and increase distractions. It's done not while the dog is in the throws of a barking frenzy at the neighbor's dog, but in a controlled setting for training purposes. I think I posted it somewhere here but don't have time now to go through it all...will try later. By incompatible, I mean that the dog can't be quiet if he's barking and visa versa. Another example would be a dog that jumps up for greetings. Put it on a cue and show the contrast between sitting for a greeting and jumping up as a trick but on cue only. That contrast helps them learn and they can't do one while they're doing the other. 

Anyhow, you teach your dog to bark on cue and then to quiet on cue, volleying back and forth. It's a process but it works well. Punishing a dog for barking is not such a great idea because it's a behavior that I assume is not always a no no. And it's an instinctive behavior that you really can't or shouldn't try to stop entirely. Therefore punishing the behavior would mean that the dog should never bark. I never recommend Bark Busters for training as they use too many punishing techniques and not enough learning theory.

To assume that because of the way it sounds etc, that the dog is sassing or trying to challenge your authority is probably leaning toward too much anthropomorphizing. I'd avoid putting our own spin on what is in the dog's mind and just set about a tried and true method based on the science of learning, avoiding punishment to get it under control.


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## SteviM95 (Jul 9, 2014)

I think the trainers have a lot of freedom to use their individual training styles. She also mentioned that the company is world wide & other countries use physical corrections, but that Americans don't 'like' that for their dogs. The most physical correction she has advocated to me is spraying her with a spray bottle. Everything I've been taught by this trainer is to get Bindi's attention & redirect her energy to something I can praise her for. The reason I called in the first place was not barking, it is Bindi's biting. I believe it is puppy mouthing/chewing - not malicious, but it hurts, it breaks the skin, and it limits my ability to socialize her to children because I will not suffer a child to be chewed on by my dog. Plus, the day I called, I accidentally kicked her in reaction to a particularly severe bite. She was not hurt - in fact she got up & pounced on my feet again with even more vigor, but I'm very ashamed of it. But the biting has to stop. I have lots of bruises and small wounds...and my mom has had two rather long scrapes. Mom's diabetic and fusses (with reason) over her wounds. Today I started putting the puppy chew deterrent right on my hands and shoving them in her mouth. The thing is, today there were times she went for hours without biting, and then when she started, the bottle would inevitably be across the room. The thing I find frustrating is that she just does it because she's excited she's getting attention, she will actually play for more than an hour with her toys...but when I want to just give her attention - pats, scratches, etc - she starts squirming & then mouthing, and then the mouthing hurts. I also thinks things accelerate quickly when she is tired. So today I decided to wake her up, so that I was initiating everything - bad call, she was a horrible brat for two hours. When she's playing with her toys or chewing on her bones, she just looks so precious. And she wants my attention - she perks up & gets excited. I just have to figure out how to get through to her to stop biting. Right now the barking seems to be replacing some of the biting. It's pretty cute right now, but I don't want her doing it when she's big. But I trained 2 mini poodle adult rescues to stop yapping, so I'm not too worried. I did train them using bark on command/hush on command - but it did make the more submissive one more likely to just sit in front of people and do a little howly bark for attention. Lucky for him it was pretty cute.


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## poolann (Jan 31, 2013)

Stevi,

I'm sure she is happy with the interaction and I understand how over excited puppies can get. I understand how cranky they get when tired too. 

Take a look at how you approach her to play. Is there any way you could be more low key? How long can you play before the biting starts? If you determine those things perhaps you could play just until right before she would begin to act up.

Ideally the amount of stimulation/interaction with you will increase over time. Any kind of acting up nipping barking etc & the fun stops. Time out in crate or expen if she continues the behavior after you avert your gaze & attempt to walk away or turn your back. The point of this is undesirable behavior = attention stops. Just a brief time out & try again. No getting upset or scolding as you take her to time out. Just take her quietly. Low key praise once she is being quiet & you get her out of the area. In a perfect world you would end the game before she gets to the point of starting the nipping/barking. Difficult to do with a young pup, hence the time outs. 

I'm inclined to think the barking is displacement as well. She is frustrated and because biting gets a correction she has started barking. Give some thought as to what you might change & what you can control. I like to tell my students that of course we will give our dogs what they want when it is possible. The thing is that it is on our terms which is a powerful motivator. Dogs always do what works. 

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## SteviM95 (Jul 9, 2014)

You know, at first I was a little frustrated this AM, thinking "I know all this". But I swallowed my pride, and I'm having a little more sucess today. I am giving her 3 shots to correct herself and if she is still grabbing at stuff or me, I'm putting her in her kennel for 30 minutes. I do realize that my first joyous "praises" were sending her over the moon. (I swear my minis would just sit and stare at me while I acted like that ... but I have to remember that I got them when they were 7 yrs, not 7 weeks). Today I feel like I'm barely noticing her, but she is responding to a moderated praise voice - I barely feel there is a difference between my "good girl" voice and my command voice. The frustrating thing is leash walking. Whenever I say "good girl" because she is walking beside me perfectly, she skips out in front of me. But I'm happy with the progress we are making there. I am trying to be cognizant of your advice about the mouthing - maybe I'm giving her too much attention when she misbehaves, and she thinks its just a great way to get me to handle her. I'm not getting to get down on all fours and play with her - but I pet her until she wants to mouth and then walk away. If she follows me and bites, or runs ahead and grabs something she knows is off limits, she gets 3 chances and then to the kennel she goes. No repeated growling/corrections, etc. And even though I was told that it's redirection, I really felt it was rewarding her to offer praise, a toy, or a bone the second she took her mouth off something. Its actually working pretty well, and I'm less worried about what people think walking by. Last week I was with her and my cousin's sons (2 & 5) in the backyard...and I taught them to growl at her whenever she jumped (they were jumping all around too). Pretty soon I heard my cousin say to my mom "what is going on? she must be playing pirates with them".


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

i am impressed. we should all be as willing to admit there's a possibility doing it differently could work. or that maybe we are too close to what's going on and need to step back a bit. good wishes for continued improvement and success.


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## poolann (Jan 31, 2013)

Oh the picture of the boys & pup. Cute! I did not mean to cause you frustration but I'm glad there seems to be a little progress 

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