# Potassium Bromide



## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

I have a friend in the Afghan Hound world who has a dog who has seizures. I had told her that our Chalumeau had very occasional seizures and my daughter (Meau's technical owner) doesn't want to put her on phenobarbital for seizures that happen 3 or 4 times a year - if that... My friend talked with her vet about substituting potassium bromide and here is a portion of the email she sent to me regarding that...

"I forgot to mention that Joseph’s blood work came back just fine and the levels of phenol in his blood is very minute. I had extensive discussions with two vets now and both feel that this is a much better path for Joseph than the other Potassium Bromide as that has many more consequences and takes other vitals off course.
So, since his liver and other organs are fine and doing well and he is OK on a very tiny dose of Pheno I will leave him where he is for now. The vets suggested to try to remove him slowly from the drug in about a year and see how he does. I’m all for that."

I don't know that there's a GOOD alternative - you have to try to find the lesser of all evils and then just stay on top of regular blood work to make sure organs aren't being damaged...

Good luck!

Barb


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## stealthq (Aug 4, 2011)

Yes, while I was still in high school we had an epileptic sheltie. She was put on Potassium Bromide (KBr) for several years until it no longer controlled her seizures. She did very well on it while it worked, not much about her changed, behavior-wise. 

Then we had to start adding phenobarbitol and everything started to go downhill. Eventually the dose was so high she became a zombie, slept all the time, was always hungry, still the seizures were barely controlled. She never did have any liver issues. Eventually, it was a series of seizures that killed her.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Thanx for the input.  I suppose that if 20% develop liver problems then there's 80% who don't, eh? So it's worth considering. 

I've got the results of blood tests done in April of 2011 for the vet to look at. They should be able to rule out thyroid from them. Probably more blood tests tomorrow.

Since last Summer the frequency has gone from once a month to once every two weeks. But then he's had two in the last two days. 

I never really wanted to medicate him . . . and this is not yet cluster events . . but still, maybe time to get a little more serious abt this.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Keep lookin' for help. I'd try lotsa' other stuff.


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## Ladyscarletthawk (Dec 6, 2011)

Potassium Bromide is safer for the liver and is what is used for dogs with impaired livers and seizures. You can go the more homeopathic route with Taurine. Eve had seizures for a bit but I think it was more related to her prior liver impairment and toxins in her body. I havent seen any seizures for more than a year, but she also no longer has liver impairment. 

Here is some info:
Taurine


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Thanx, Lady. 

I've been all over that Guardian Angels site in the last couple of days. It's certainly the most informative of all of them dealing with this problem. Hadn't seen the Taurine link yet tho. 

It gives me sumthin' else to ask the vet abt today.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Well we're back from the vet's. Blood work and all. 

All present functions are fine according to today's results. She also had a look at all his old records . . . including blood results from 11 months ago. 

Of course she recommends Phenobarbitol. 'Coz she knows it will work. 

She prefers KBr as a supplement *if necessary* to the Phenobarb. If we take that route she would like to see blood tests a couple of times a year. Probably forever, I guess...

Oh well, CB. :tongue1: Suck it up and quit pouting!! Ya gotta do what it takes to keep yr boy goin', eh?


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## bigpoodleperson (Jul 14, 2009)

I am of the same feelings as your vet. I would go with the phenobarb. It works really well. There is an adjustment period where dogs can be either hyper or sluggish getting used to the drug. After that they should be back to normal. Yes, you must do bloodwork for liver values and check the phenobarb level in the blood every 6 months minumum for lifelong maintence. If my dog had seizures, I would use phenobarb. I have personally worked with tons of dogs who never had an issue with the phenobarb for Years!


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## BorderKelpie (Dec 3, 2011)

I have a question for you to ask your vet. 

Would adding milk thistle to his meds help at all?

Read this when you get a chance, please.

Milk Thistle - What You Need to Know


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

I'm slacking!

If you haven't done so, please consider contact Dr Licht at Florida State University. Although not a vet, this lady knows the ins and outs of canine epilepsy (poodle focused!!!) better than any vet I have ever talked with... and I've talked with a lot through the years. Also.. I hope you will consider participating in the epilepsy study going on at Florida State... as well as... (ok, everyone who knows me KNEW this one was coming).. registering the seizures with Poodle Health Registry. Here are some links that may be helpful to you with each of the suggestions... if you don't do anything else at least contact Dr Licht for suggestions.... I'll anticipate being away from the computer for the next few days, so won't be around for questions.. hope these links cover it:

Dr. Barbara G. Licht (info about Dr Licht)

http://www.vipoodle.org/PDF_Files/LICHT_Research.pdf (info about the Poodle Epilepsy study)

PHR Start Here! (how to register the seizures with PHR).


Good luck!!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

LOL, Yadda. I caught that edit! 

And yeah . . . I knew somebody was gonna bring it up. It might as well be u, eh? . . . since u've usually got just abt everything else covered.  lol

But no problem. I've got the her FSU page bookmarked . . and will be in touch. Certainly a knowledgeable lady, and specializing in Poodles, but mostly involved in a genetic database of afflicted dogs. Nonetheless, she will absolutely get my information. 

PHR is a different kettle of fish. I think they first want a vet's diagnosis. That's kinda counterproductive, I thot. The vet never sees a seizure. For that kind of diagnosis they have to rely completely on my evidence. Why wouldn't the PHR?

Regardless, I have every intention of working with them, too.

The latest news??? Tonka's breeder and I are also working on a theory of possible head/neck/spinal trauma. So I'll be talking soon to a chiropractor. She comes recommended by the breeder . . . and a consultation can't really hurt, eh? 

Don't be gone too long. I was expecting to hear from u earlier in this thread!  lol


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## A'n'A Mom (Dec 4, 2010)

Hi CB,

I am really sorry about Tonka's seizures!! Barbara Licht is also a fount of information about seizure medications and combinations thereof to achieve maximum control with minimum side effects.

Re PHR and the requirement for a medical diagnosis... Let's take a for instance... 
Dog A has seizures, is taken to the vet and dx'd with liver damage/failure and given meds which cure/help and the correct dx of liver issues is registered with the PHR. In this case, the seizures are a symptom of a completely different problem.
Dog B has seizures and that info is sent to the PHR....without any medical followup...and the PHR shows the dog as having seizures. Dog B may have some underlying medical condition or it may be idiopathic epilepsy. But all we know is that it's having seizures.
Don't you think the value of the PHR is greater when the information is as accurate as we can get it? Besides, depending on the problem, there are all sorts of things that can be used as 'proof' of a medical dx. We really aren't a bunch of autograph seekers! 

If the vet hasn't ever seen one of Tonka's seizures, why don't you film one? Smart phones, iPads, FlipVideos and video cameras can all be used. If you see him starting to have a seizure, grab your phone and film it. It will be very helpful to the vet in finding the correct diagnosis and thereby helping Tonka.

Nancy
(PHR Volunteer)


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Nancy, thanx! 

I was a little too brief in my statement earlier. I'm certainly not blaming PRH. I've not dealt with y'all yet but I can understand why u have certain requirements. They make perfect sense to me. 

The blood tests came back negative for any other cause of the seizures. So, I guess I could ask my vet for a written(?) diagnosis. * I looked at your requirements sooo briefly that honestly, I can't even say for sure what y'all want to see. So I may be speakin' out of my hat. 'Pologies if that's so.*

Anyway . . I will, the next time I see the vet, check to see exactly what documentation u need and get it from her. But today I didn't even go to pick up the meds. I don't think I will start them . . . yet.

We have a mobile, veterinary chiropractor who services this area. I will arrange at least a consultation with her before I start any course of meds.

The breeder and I have some clues . . . both from his behaviour and from some aspects of his reported history . . . that the 'trauma' angle may deserve investigating prior to simply chalking this up to something 'idiopathic'.

So I guess that *I* (in capital letters and bold) am the one not sure of exactly which route to take yet. Still waiting at the moment for more opinions from 'the experts'. I certainly intend to supply both Dr. Litch, and your organization, the information that u need to carry on toward our mutual goals.  

As soon as I get my act together!


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## Rayah-QualitySPs (Aug 31, 2010)

Countryboy said:


> But today I didn't even go to pick up the meds. I don't think I will start them . . . yet.
> 
> We have a mobile, veterinary chiropractor who services this area. I will arrange at least a consultation with her before I start any course of meds.


Dear Countryboy;
I know it is very difficult to start your poodle on medications that may change his personality or make him drowsy. Usually these side effects disappear as the dogs body becomes used to the medication.
One of the reasons for medicating a dog for seizures is to prevent further harm to the brain. Everytime the dog has a seizure the dogs seizure threshold is lowered. This can lead to seizures that last longer, come more often or become more severe. 
Sometimes poodles that have been on medication for long periods, (over 12 months) and are well controlled - i.e. do not have any seizures - can be weaned off the medication. Seizures do not necessarily mean a lifetime of pills but I think you should go pick up the medication and give it a go! When the seizures are well controlled maybe you can get your other boy back.
Pats to Tonka.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Rayah-QualitySPs said:


> Seizures do not necessarily mean a lifetime of pills but I think you should go pick up the medication and give it a go! When the seizures are well controlled maybe you can get your other boy back.
> Pats to Tonka.


Oh, Rayah! Don't think I don't hear ya.  lol 

U may guess that I'm really of two minds abt this. Yr point is valid . . meds will prevent the seizures . . we know that. And really?? . . at very little risk. 

I've gotta be out to the kennels tomorrow *near to the vet's office* and will pick the meds up then. We've got an appointment with the chiro on Saturday morning. And the two procedures, meds and chiro, are not mutually exclusive. 

I've never met a vet chiropractor before. I'll let y'all know how that goes.


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## vicky2200 (Feb 14, 2012)

Hi. I have a shepherd mix who is on phenobarbitol and potassium bromide. He has been on these medications for 4 years now. Originally he was only on phenobarbitol, but it eventually stopped controlling his seizures. They added potassium bromide. For years we struggled. Changing doses, clusters of seizures, and a seizure at least every 3 months. Finally the vet got his dosage correct and now he has been seizure free for 1.5 years! Recently, they lowered his phenobarbitol dosage because the amount in his blood stream was high. It has not damaged his liver. Another drug to consider is Kepra. When he was having clusters they had us give it to him after a seizure for three days, in addition to his other meds, to help prevent a cluster. It worked pretty well. It is a very expensive drug so it isn't used often, but I believe it may be able to be used as a solo drug. Hope everything turns out okay.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

Tonka had his first visit from the veterinary chiropractor this morning. 

She is a chiropractor first . . and then has had additional certification specializing in animals. She was telling me that these post-grad classes were comprised of abt 50% DVMs and 50% chiropractors.

First visit is $80 *CDN or US . . they're abt the same at the moment.* Follow up visits are $60. But it seems like the follow-up is not as involved as in human chiropractic. She estimates that only one or maybe two more visits would be necessary. 

Some tight muscles and unevenness in stance . . . but no idea if they could be causing seizures or are the result of seizures. So she did a couple of corrections to his neck and sacrum and will be back next week for a follow-up.

This girl is mobile throughout the Greater Toronto Area *GTA* and can be reached at:

Dr. Aerin Greidanus
[email protected]

And ladies, if u need her services . . . but have to go shopping at the same time . . don't worry. Yr husbands will be more than happy to stay at home in yr place and assist her!  lol


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