# Spay and Ear Hematoma (Warning: Photos Included)



## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

Hi guys,

Holly here again (feel like I live on these forums) :afraid: I am a little on the safe side right now and I am concerned about Jazmin's spay, the doctor has been practicing forever, but he is new to the practice and it is my first time dealing with an outside stitching (on second note it may be an inside stitching job). I can't really see them sticking out, but the line is so long and clumpy and I can't wash it off so I don't know if its medicine or crusties or if she pulled a stitch maybe? May I have anyone's second opinion (note: I do understand that it wouldn't be medical advice). The last time I dealt with a spay it was literally like a 1.5" incision and was tucked in nicely and healed up very nicely and quickly as well. A month later you couldn't even tell there was a scar. I gave her her pain medication, but I went to touch it ever so lightly to see if it was hot to the touch just in case and she freaked out and whimpered, even while on the pain medication. (But it is only day 2!) Am I overreacting or should I consult another vet? This scar is almost twice as long and the area closest to her ribs points out and feels hard.










Also, on a side note my baby girl Jazmin was nipped in the ears by her mama when she was younger and her ears are effected by scarring, I believe what they call a hematoma? I notice she scratches her ears a lot, especially the left one. I assume because the scaring makes the ear so tight it causes itchiness. Does anyone know of elective surgery to alleviate the tightness or any product I could possibly use to relieve her itching? Because she just got spayed she can't stretch her legs much so she is rubbing her head like crazy on everyone to get that itch out.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Wow! Looks like someone got a bit scalpel and glue crazy on your baby! Idk about that incision, it does look quite large but it's hard to tell with the picture and the skin glue all over. Also they sure shaved the crap out of her poor tummy. They didn't do external suture they just glued it closed. It also looks like she might have licked a bit and opened a small area. I would take her back and have them re glue it and clean her up for you. Also keep that ecollar on so she doesn't get to it. After that keep a really close eye on the incision make sure she is inactive for at least a week (meaning no jumping or running) and keep that ecollar on for 10-14 days. As for the ears I'm wondering if it might be something else that is going on and not and ear hematoma. A hematoma is when a bunch of blood builds up in the ear from damage like excessive shaking and banging on hard surfaces. If that is the case then yes there is a very simple surgery to fix it. Basically the ear is cut open and the fluid is drained then the ear is stitched open so any more fluid and blood build up can drain. I am surprised they didn't address it at the time she was spayed. Was it a spay and neuter only clinic?


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

I would bring Jazmin back in, its an awfully long incision. Beatrice had one larger than my vet liked to do because as he was doing the spay her new snipped ovaries slipped back in so he had to retrieve them, and if a e-collar isn't working for you a onesie or t-shirt would work.

Hi to Jazmin BTW, this must be the black toy you mentioned ages ago


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## Indiana (Sep 11, 2011)

They're so tough aren't they? We'd probably have a mental breakdown if we had to have that surgery. Maddy did phenomenally well after her spay; they gave her a long-lasting pain shot and really besides being more cuddly than usual, she was completely herself. We took her for slow walks (MUCH slower than she would have liked) and it didn't take long until she was herself again. The vet offered more pain meds if she needed it, but she didn't seem to. I would take your girl in again, just to be sure!


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

Geez I am no expert but that is the longest spay incision that I have ever see. I would bring her back in and have a talk with them.


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

I am with the rest of the pack here, have the Vet take a look at it. Especially since the incision is so big and there is that open looking place. I have never personally seen a spay incision that big. Iris' was barely an inch and a half long and she's a Spoo.

Keep us posted.

VQ


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

Yes! This is baby Jazmin she is 6 months old. She has super long legs and loves to run so I think this healing process will take a lot of supervision.

Oh jeez I am glad I asked you guys. Honestly I saw it and almost freaked. She decided to jump on the couch when I went to get her water bowl and I see a pinkish area. This is the first time I have ever seen an incision glued! It sounds a bit lazy to me. Honestly it was my primary vets, but the vet who did it is the new chief so I thought it was going to be okay. This would explain the hardness on her skin. I paid a lot for her spay and was expecting the same quality as what Jelena got. They did not give me an e collar so I will have to ask for one or, get a nice loose but fit shirt for her (what a great suggestion, her neck is only 8"  ) Oh jeez... I am honestly not a fan of this glue idea... hmm.. but definitely taking her in tomorrow. Jazmin gets the nice comfy crate tonight. She is only 4.2 lbs. and this incision is huge imo even for her long body.


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

@poodlecrazy I am not sure what you would call it specifically, but the blood vessels have tightened and scarred. She is sleeping right now so I will have to show a photo tomorrow.  But if I am smart enough to remember, I will ask my vet tomorrow when I go in about her incision.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

With that size of incision I'm thinking the vet probably lost something in the body cavity or had a hard time finding an ovary or something. Our doctor has had the latter happen before and had to open a patient up further. I have never seen him open one that far though. And there is no excuse for the mess with the glue but a tech could have done that. Having them glued doesn't mean laziness. It is actually more comfortable for the pet, they don't have to come back for suture removal, and it is less likely to cause reactions like some suture materials do.


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## Alex2592 (Jan 10, 2015)

Oh wow... Éva got spayed today and her incision looks about 3 to 4 inches. 
If you're not comfortable, I would definitely take her in.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> With that size of incision I'm thinking the vet probably lost something in the body cavity or had a hard time finding an ovary or something. Our doctor has had the latter happen before and had to open a patient up further. I have never seen him open one that far though. And there is no excuse for the mess with the glue but a tech could have done that. Having them glued doesn't mean laziness. It is actually more comfortable for the pet, they don't have to come back for suture removal, and it is less likely to cause reactions like some suture materials do.



Somebody should have explained what happened to her!


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Somebody should have explained what happened to her!



Oh yes definitely!


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Cayenne is 3 pounds and hers looked nothing like that 4 months ago, I would really find out why. The did not glue Cayenne the put stitches in that dissolved


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> Somebody should have explained what happened to her!


Oooo yes! I was thinking the same exact thing! This is only the second time I have dealt with spays/neuters and he didn't seem like he had anything worth mentioning, even got the "everything went great" line.

I did just get my hands on a measuring tape and the incision is about 3.2" long. Also, the vet who did her spay does have larger hands? I heard that may be a reason. It just looks so big on a wee 7" 4 lbs. body so that may not be doing it much justice. Nevertheless! I am going in to see if I can get an e-collar and a check up on that small area that she may have been licking. 

@Alex2592, sending lots of healing energy to Eva.

PS - Sorry for judging a book by its cover when I said it seemed gluing is lazy! Do you think its okay for a 3" long incision? Hmm...


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

hollyollyc said:


> Oooo yes! I was thinking the same exact thing! This is only the second time I have dealt with spays/neuters and he didn't seem like he had anything worth mentioning, even got the "everything went great" line.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't care how many inches it is - that incision goes up much further than it normally would on her body!


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

Tiny Poodles said:


> I don't care how many inches it is - that incision goes up much further than it normally would on her body!


:amen:
Going to get second opinion, have appointment around 5.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

hollyollyc said:


> :amen:
> 
> Going to get second opinion, have appointment around 5.



At the same practice or a different one?


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> At the same practice or a different one?


Same practice, but with the vet who did Jelena's spay. I think they will be able to shed light on whether it looks abnormal and if so I know they can talk to the individual who did the spay. I trust the practice a lot, just not sure about this new doctor just yet.

Here is that photo I meant to share showing Jelena's ears.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Ok good. Hopefully they will let you know what happened and talk with the other vet. 

As for the ear is it Cauliflower Ear? Does that term ring a bell at all? If so yes it is a permanent deformity, but there is a cosmetic surgery that can be done to make the ear look better and relieve discomfort. The condition cauliflower ear happens when there is damage to ear causing fluid build up to separate the layers of cartilage and tissue in the ear (usually from an aural hematoma). If it is not resolved in a week to a week and a half the cartilage gets no blood supply from the many vessels in the ear and dies, causing the cauliflower type looking "growths".
At our clinic the procedure is called a Zepp surgery. It has a much longer name that I wouldn't stand a chance of spelling correctly lol. Basically the dead cartilage in the ear is removed and the ear is stitched back into its original shape. The success of the surgery is very dependent on at home post SX care and the underlying cause of the condition. In cases where the ear is constantly damaged from say itchiness due to allergies it has a very low success rate because if the underlying condition isn't treated or cured the pet is going to go back to the same shaking it's head and scratching at the ear. Yet again causing damage and allowing for the ear to develop another hematoma and then a cauliflower ear. 

Now in Jelena's case if the condition itself is causing her to scratch at the ear the surgery could be very successful, but I would check to be sure that it is definitely the cause of her discomfort. Testing to be sure she has no ear or yeast infections no mites that could be causing her to itch and even allergies. It is not a cheap surgery and you wouldn't want to spend that type of money just to find out it won't be successful. We had a patient who's cauliflower ear got so bad (from constant repetitive damage) that it blocked the entire ear canal (as well as trapped all the nastiness like dirt and yeast in it) our doctor had to create a new ear opening for the dog. Another patient has the same issue but the owners elected to just let the dog be deaf, he also didn't have the issue of dirt and yeast being trapped inside, which could have cause an array of other issues for that dog if left untreated. I hope this helped a bit and I will get the correct name of the surgery for you when I go into work today.


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> Ok good. Hopefully they will let you know what happened and talk with the other vet.
> 
> As for the ear is it Cauliflower Ear? Does that term ring a bell at all? If so yes it is a permanent deformity, but there is a cosmetic surgery that can be done to make the ear look better and relieve discomfort. The condition cauliflower ear happens when there is damage to ear causing fluid build up to separate the layers of cartilage and tissue in the ear (usually from an aural hematoma). If it is not resolved in a week to a week and a half the cartilage gets no blood supply from the many vessels in the ear and dies, causing the cauliflower type looking "growths".
> At our clinic the procedure is called a Zepp surgery. It has a much longer name that I wouldn't stand a chance of spelling correctly lol. Basically the dead cartilage in the ear is removed and the ear is stitched back into its original shape. The success of the surgery is very dependent on at home post SX care and the underlying cause of the condition. In cases where the ear is constantly damaged from say itchiness due to allergies it has a very low success rate because if the underlying condition isn't treated or cured the pet is going to go back to the same shaking it's head and scratching at the ear. Yet again causing damage and allowing for the ear to develop another hematoma and then a cauliflower ear.
> ...


:dong: Oh no, I have never heard that term before. I will have to have them take a deeper look at her ears. I was told it is more of a cosmetic thing, but I would hate to have itchy ears all the time. Although its not common, I feel so bad when I see her rubbing her head on anything to relieve the itchiness. It could also be her allergies, I heard allergy tests aren't too reliable so I'm wondering how I can check to see if its the food she eats. She was on Artemis and I switched her to Grain-Free Evangers, but I can't pinpoint if that is when her itching started or not. Hmm...

Thanks poodlecrazy, I wish I could suck all that knowledge out of your brain. Your definitely a huge asset to everyone and gosh I wish your clinic was in MD so I could go, haha! (But you would probably see me going in too often.)


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Good luck on the vet visit this afternoon. Hope you get some answers to your questions and that everything is alright with your baby.

We do so worry about them, don't we?

I feel so fortunate to have found this forum. While I am an experienced dog person I find the information other forum members offer is invaluable. Such a generous and sharing group of people.

Do let us know the outcome of your afternoon appointment.

Good thoughts to you,

Viking Queen


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Please do let us know, it is so hard not to fret about our furry friends


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

Hi ya'll,

So the vet said everything seems to be healing well and she said her best opinion is that with longer bodies it is sometimes harder to find the uterus which is why the incision may be longer. She says all else aside it looks normal and it is healing well for being day 3. The excessive gluing on the sides of the incision is slowly coming off by itself so it does look a bit better. I was able to get that e collar to make sure she isn't licking in the crate. Her personality changes so much when it is on. Talk about calm submissive! Hahaha. Poor baby, but she is on her way to healing. 










She gained .2 lbs. (sucess!!) and is on her way towards her goal weight.

Oh! Also, for her scratching they said it could be causing itchiness, the tightness, but her canals aren't blocked up and healthy, but that wax is starting to build up so it may be a good time to pull that hair out in her ear (oops, my bad as a dog owner, I got so caught up in things I forgot all about the ear hair!). So currently sitting on the couch watching TV giving a good ear clean.

PS - Viking, I couldn't agree more!
Twyla, Jazmin is 10" tall and the vet said she thinks she will get to be 6-7 lbs.  When she said this it reminded me of Princess Beatrice, which, again, happy birthday to her!
poodlecrazy, I am so sorry, I keep mixing up Jazmin's and Jelena's names... :x


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

Glad all went well on your vet visit. It's good to just talk things over.

She sure looks sad in her little cone of shame. They have a way with that pitiful look that tugs at our heart don't they.

Soon you will be trying to keep her quiet and she will want to bounce around.

She sure is a cutie pie. Pretty little face!

Have a restful night,

Viking Queen


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## twyla (Apr 28, 2010)

Glad to see that Jazmin is doing better, and wow she does look like Beatrice who was just 5 lbs at 6 months, those eyes melt you.


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

Hi everyone,

So it is Day 7 of Jazmin's healing adventures. I noticed yesterday in the corner of my eye that Jazmin had found a way around the cone... she will slip her head back, shake, and push the cone to the bottom of her long neck and then sit and bend to get at it Tried to make it shorter, but then it squeezed her head too much so decided to get another. So hopefully this hasn't been going on for long. As soon as I saw this I went out to get a bigger collar, but they don't have lamp shades that are wide and small enough for her neck size.

I am trying this inflatable collar I found that you put your dog's collar on, but it still seems to be twisting around and I think she has found her way around it too, she can't get to her incision, but she can get to the thigh of her leg so its only time.









Here is what her incision looks like on Day 7, what do you guys think? You think it is worth getting that second opinion or going back? 









All the pet beds in the world and she picks to sleep in this!









The silly inflatable collar she has on. Definitely much more comfortable for her vs. the cone, especially during nap times.


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## poodlecrazy#1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Incision looks great! It's healing well and doesn't look like she has licked at it. That's the problem with certain cones, they can push it down and get around it if they want to. We send home the ones that you can put the collar through with some brown gauze so that way the owner can tie it up higher on the neck. But there are always those dogs that are between sizes and can maneuver around anything lol. She is so cute in that giant inflatable collar! I ? her!


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

poodlecrazy#1 said:


> Incision looks great! It's healing well and doesn't look like she has licked at it. That's the problem with certain cones, they can push it down and get around it if they want to. We send home the ones that you can put the collar through with some brown gauze so that way the owner can tie it up higher on the neck. But there are always those dogs that are between sizes and can maneuver around anything lol. She is so cute in that giant inflatable collar! I ? her!


Thanks poodlecrazy, hopefully we can have her back in puppy education class soon!

When she puts her paws up on the table or sofa, she looks like a circus clown, haha.


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