# Cesar Millan



## MamaTiff (Sep 23, 2011)

Last night Cesar Millan was at the local performing arts center. Me and my friend went. It was awesome. He talked basically about everything from his upbringing and what got him started here in America, to having balanced dogs, etc. He is a great public speaker and the best part was his pit bull Junior was there on stage with him the whole time. He was adorable. He just sat there or walked around stage wagging his tail. He's so mellow. 
Anyhow I just wanted to share in my fun night out. If he is coming to your area on his tour I recommend checking him out. I know his training style isn't for everyone but I find him very inspirational.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Thanks for sharing your experience MamaTiff! Not everyone hear likes or even respects CM, but I have always admired his work with dogs. I own the first 3 seasons of the Dog Whisperer on DVD and watch them on rainy days, just for fun! :lol:

Some people claim his methods are antiquated and cruel, but I have watched a LOT of his shows and simply cannot see what cruelty they are talking about... I have a pretty open mind and love to learn about ALL kinds of methods to train/live with dogs. I feel this way because I truly believe that there isn't a "one size fits all" method of being successful with canines (or people for that matter!)

Some dogs respond well to positive motiviational training, some respond better to strong leadership, which is what I think Cesar promotes. Strong leadership does not equal cruelty to animals... I have horses and follow the Parelli Natural Horse.man.ship program. This method is also one of becoming a partner with the horse, but informing the horse in no uncertain terms that the partnership is 49%/51%, with the human perpetually maintaining the 51%. This method will always allow the human to retain their safety around 1/2 ton animals - the horse learns he will not be allowed to do certain things that can put the measly human in danger. There are people who complain about the Parelli program saying it's too "touchy feely" and isn't harsh enough with the horses (and then there are those who say it's TOO harsh :doh but since I've been studying the program for 7 years, the only thing I can say to these people is that they do not understand the program completely. They've made a faulty determination based on first impressions and then do not delve further into the details of the program - this is what I feel about people who dis CM, too - they just haven't looked at his method with an open mind - they made a decision and nothing is going to open their minds to give it a chance...

The one dog training method that I will NEVER understand or agree that works is when owners allow their dogs to walk all over them and NEVER teach the dogs boundaries or rules. These dogs turn into little tyrants and they can be unsafe around people.

My daughter is a groomer and has told stories about the cutest, fluffiest, sweetest (looking) puppies that come to her shop and they turn out to be the meanest, bitingest, nastiest little critters - because their owners never EXPECT the pups to behave!! They ONLY have to be cute and then they get their way no matter what! That's the type of "training" that can be dangerous... These people are essentially training their dogs to not respect the human in any way, shape or form...

I would love it if CM came someplace close enough to me that I could attend one of his events. I think he's awesome!! You're so lucky you got to experience that!!

Barb


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

plumcrazy said:


> Thanks for sharing your experience MamaTiff! Not everyone hear likes or even respects CM, but I have always admired his work with dogs. I own the first 3 seasons of the Dog Whisperer on DVD and watch them on rainy days, just for fun! :lol:
> 
> Some people claim his methods are antiquated and cruel, but I have watched a LOT of his shows and simply cannot see what cruelty they are talking about... I have a pretty open mind and love to learn about ALL kinds of methods to train/live with dogs. I feel this way because I truly believe that there isn't a "one size fits all" method of being successful with canines (or people for that matter!)
> 
> ...


:amen: Love your post...I'm with you, I don't think CM's methods are for every person or dog, but he certainly has done a lot of good for people and their dogs. Just think how many doggies he has saved from being PTS or submitted to a shelter! I realize that a lot of people view his methods as cruel, inhumane, etc. But honestly, I've seen the dogs he owns personally, and they look like perfectly happy, healthy dogs. I've never seen a dog run and hide when he came around either. So, while I don't think his methods are perfect, and they definitely aren't for every dog (they are too harsh for pups with softer personalities IMO.), I'm not going to chuck the whole shebang into the garbage over a few things I don't like.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

mom24doggies said:


> I'm not going to chuck the whole shebang into the garbage over a few things I don't like.


Whoop!!!! EXACTLY!!! :lol:

And your comment that his methods aren't for softer personality dogs... I have to agree and then state that the only dogs I've ever seen him work with are the ones on his show - and NONE of them appear to be "soft personality". They may be fearful, but the fear comes out inappropriately as lunging, biting, aggressing, etc., 

CM also never claims to be a "dog trainer", he teaches humans and rehabilitates dogs... The dogs he rehabilitates already HAVE issues - he's not causing them, he's not glossing over them, he's helping the dog deal with them and put them behind!

Most "normal" dogs don't need the "whole enchilada" (tee hee... I wonder if Cesar likes enchiladas?? :lol of the stepped up rehabilitation methods as you see on TV... If most owners would follow the FOUNDATION of his method from day one with their dogs... Exercise, Discipline, Affection - in that order; and teaching Rules, Boundaries and Limitations... their dogs should never HAVE to be rehabilitated! The dogs will be happily balanced all the time! 

I follow this foundation with my dogs, both the resident furballs and any foster or visiting canine that comes into my house (and this time of the year, that's a LOT!! I'm dogsitting for a whole lotta dogs during this holiday season, starting with Thanksgiving and going through until mid January!!) I never have a problem with canine/canine or canine/human interactions in my house because my dogs know what I expect from them (it's ALWAYS the same and never changes!) and the newcomers learn very quickly since my pack is already happy and balanced.

If CM's methods were as bad as some of his detractors want you to believe, my pack would be a quivering mess of neurotic-ness... And they're not!! :lol: Love my pack!! :beauty:


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

plumcrazy said:


> Whoop!!!! EXACTLY!!! :lol:
> 
> And your comment that his methods aren't for softer personality dogs... I have to agree and then state that the only dogs I've ever seen him work with are the ones on his show - and NONE of them appear to be "soft personality". They may be fearful, but the fear comes out inappropriately as lunging, biting, aggressing, etc.,
> 
> ...


 You know, you are right, he does tend to work with the more "outgoing" type of dogs. I guess they are the ones who cause more problems, if you think about it. Most "soft" dogs with problems that I've met didn't lunge and bite me...they cowered back, and if pushed freaked out and pooed everywhere.  I think it's the same problem, just coming out in different ways. 

I do my best to follow his foundation rules. I'm not always consistent. Actually *I* am consistent for the most part, but I live with 11 other people.  So yeah, there is some inconsistency going on, although we do our best to try and make sure everyone is on the same page with the dogs, mainly because it helps them behave!! I have to say though, our dogs are pretty well balanced for the most part. I do have one, my mom's dog, who isn't. He is afraid of strangers and sometimes dogs. I've worked with him (using watered down versions of Milan's "methods". ) and he's much better, but I do believe some of it's a mental thing. He was a puppy-mill pup, and I think that some of his issues are genetic. So I do cut him just a little slack. 
Haha, I like your last statement... Very true!! My dogs would be awful too, and they aren't. So I guess someone is doing something right.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

I know that Cesar Milan has many fans, and he is a great showman, but I must live in an alternate universe with an alternate Cesar Milan. Every time I work up the courage to watch an episode of his programme, I end up sickened by yet another example of dog abuse. 

It isn't a choice between untrained dogs with no manners or boundaries on the one hand, or using his methods on the other hand; that's a false dichotomy. The choice is between kind, science-based training methods and outdated, abusive ones. 

For me, I can't overlook the cruelty just because he makes a few valid points about exercise and dog care. All good dog trainers would make the same points.


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## Tymaca (Oct 13, 2011)

MamaTiff said:


> Last night Cesar Millan was at the local performing arts center. Me and my friend went. It was awesome. He talked basically about everything from his upbringing and what got him started here in America, to having balanced dogs, etc. He is a great public speaker and the best part was his pit bull Junior was there on stage with him the whole time. He was adorable. He just sat there or walked around stage wagging his tail. He's so mellow.
> Anyhow I just wanted to share in my fun night out. If he is coming to your area on his tour I recommend checking him out. I know his training style isn't for everyone but I find him very inspirational.


I, personally, LOVE him! I am so jealous that you got to see him. 

Oh, and I recently came to the realization that there are never any poodles on his show. Coincidence or not!


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## Tymaca (Oct 13, 2011)

JE-UK said:


> Every time I work up the courage to watch an episode of his programme, I end up sickened by yet another example of dog abuse.


It is so funny that people can watch the same show and have such different perspectives! I cannot even think of one issue of dog abuse on the show, and I have seen almost every episode. Unless you mean the ones where he is helping to rescue the dogs from BYBs (who are being abused by their "owners")? Just curious what sort of abuse?


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## MrsKaia (Dec 3, 2011)

I've learned a lot from CM's shows. I too think he is very inspirational. So when I got my first dog ever (Cal), I felt very confident about handling a dog. And I think it's very rewarding to witness positive changes in a dog's behavior. We use a lot of CM for the basic stuff, but for actual training tips I have my favorites on YT. There has been 1 CM method we tried that didn't work on Cal. It was only when I started using a method that I saw on YT, that I started to see positive changes in his behavior. Based on that experience I think it's important to figure out what kind of dog personality you're dealing with, and adjust your methods accordingly. As for the abuse part. I don't see any real abuse. About poodles on his show. There were 2 occasions I can remember where he was asked to help a standard poodle, and I think I can remember at least 1 occasion with a mini or toy (sorry, more focused on spoos  ), but I don't think there was ever a show with a red zone case poodle. I guess it's just not in their character


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## John Rambo (Feb 27, 2011)

No abuse in his shows period...CM is an excellent tudor and motivator.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

MrsKaia said:


> About poodles on his show. There were 2 occasions I can remember where he was asked to help a standard poodle, and I think I can remember at least 1 occasion with a mini or toy (sorry, more focused on spoos  ), but I don't think there was ever a show with a red zone case poodle. I guess it's just not in their character


I remember one case where a white standard poodle was too excited and rough when people would come to visit (I think... It's been a long time since I've seen that episode, but I do have it on DVD... maybe that will be my next "rainy day" filler!) but I agree - I don't remember seeing any red zone cases with poodles.

I also have seen every episode of the first 3 seasons, plus most of the episodes of the following seasons and I've never (ever, ever) seen a case of cruelty or abuse perpetrated by Cesar. IMO, cruelty and abuse has a certain emotion behind it; anger, frustration, hatred, teeth grinding MAD - but Cesar NEVER shows those emotions. From what I've witnessed in dozens and dozens of episodes, he's ALWAYS just in it for the dog - for the good of the dog, not for his own satisfaction. But I understand that's just my perception (along with thousands of other people who love him!) 

Barb


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

People are all differant ! My sister is a dog trainer and can't stand him ... I love him and my dogs are just as well -mannered as hers, maybe more. LOL I for one do not eat hotdogs, nor do I want to store them in my own mouth to spit out as treats for wanted behavior... I think if you are a calm well-balanced person your dogs will be too.


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## Tymaca (Oct 13, 2011)

Carley's Mom said:


> I think if you are a calm well-balanced person your dogs will be too.


Exactly! I think the same thing.


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## ladybird (Jul 9, 2011)

I agree, the method of training needs to be suited for that particular dog. I'm a CM fan myself, I have studied his methods for quite a few years before getting my own dog, and do use bits and pieces of his discipline methods, as well as classic reward-based training. Obviously for teaching tricks and commands, treat training is really effective! But for discipline, like if the dog is bossing around another dog, or the play gets a bit too over-the-top and needs to calm down, then the calm-assertive approach works as well (usually a stern 'ah ah!' and a firm look works for me)

It's a balance that needs to be achieved depending on the individual animal. Poodles I think are naturally obedient, hence why not many have appeared on the show - they just don't go too far like some other breeds such as bulldogs and other 'stubborn' types. I also think it's interesting how other dogs will treat such cases (we often see this in the show too)


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I've always loved Cesar <3 I've seen him use correction AND positive methods for training, though most people seem to focus on the correction methods. He takes dogs that most people would either ditch, or euthanize, and either finds balance in their life, or keeps them as a loving part of his own pack.

I DO NOT think people in their homes should EVER attempt his methods. He knows the body language for himself, and recognizes what a dogs body language is. Choose to 
watch the show or not, but I believe he is a good man that genuinely cares for animals.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

plumcrazy said:


> IMO, cruelty and abuse has a certain emotion behind it; anger, frustration, hatred, teeth grinding MAD - but Cesar NEVER shows those emotions. From what I've witnessed in dozens and dozens of episodes, he's ALWAYS just in it for the dog -


Plumcrazy, I think you are a saintly person for volunteering your thankless moderator duties, and I know you love poodles (and all dogs). So this is a difference of opinion only!

That's quite a narrow definition of abuse ... it isn't abuse if the perpetrator isn't angry? I fully agree that anger has no place in dog handling, but there absolutely CAN be abuse without anger. There are some old videos on Youtube of old-fashioned Koehler trainers strangling or beating their dogs while staying absolutely cool. And of course puppy millers are generally pretty matter-of-fact about their abuse.

It's funny that you focus on this aspect of Millan's approach ... I think it is part of what makes him so dangerous. He calmly abuses a dog while spouting complete tosh about "balance". 

It's a real tragedy that he isn't an evolved enough person to take the wonderful forum that he has for reaching dog owners and using it to espouse better, kinder methods. 

The last time I watched an episode of Cesar Millan's programme, I posted my thoughts here. I can't bear to watch again; it literally nauseates me.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

I once read a very interesting critique of CM by Temple Grandin but I can't find it. She wrote about how she got a bunch of Milans tapes and watched them all at once. There were definitely things that she didn't like about his training approach, or things that she thought would work for one kind of dog but not another. Any Grandin fans out there who know what I'm talking about? I can't find it. 

She has a chapter on dogs in her book _Animals Make Us Human_ and it mentions Milan and his dogs but not in as much detail as the critique that I remember. The _Animals Make Us Human_ chapter's discussion about dogs debunks the alpha ideas for dogs/wolves in the wild and says that dogs live in family groups. She says that Milan's big group of rescue dogs of various breeds is a very unnatural situation.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I'd like to see some of you take on the red zone cases he helps and give them a second chance yourself  just sayin.


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## Leooonie (May 30, 2009)

CM's ideas and theories he bases his ideas upon are totally disproved by clinical behaviourists. The alpha theory, which is 'linear' dominance is actually very rare in the animal kingdom. 
Most of his 'techniques' use a fear factor in the dog, and the dog does NOT think for itself and doesnt realise there are better ways to behave. A behaviouristswith a good repetoire of techniques realises no every dog responds well to positive punishment, which is generally speaking what CM uses. 
When it comes to 'redzone' dogs, it takes MANY months and even years to get the dog happy to be with people...it might never be happy even then... not hours or days.

I am studying a BSc(Hons) IN Animal Behaviour Science, and one of my lecturers, a world renowned Veterinary Behaviourist and has talked already about 'quick fixes'.

I agree it is very important to be a leader, and for your dogs to respect you. But that man will never have my respect - the 'alpha roll' is completely idiotic and he is completely wrong in his assumption that the so-called 'alpha' rolls the other dog. INfact the subordinate will roll itself to show no challenge.

He's just a business man when it comes down to it, with a few good tips here and there but nothing I would base any real training on.


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