# To test for giardia or not, that is the question.



## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

How old is Jasmin? My understanding with _Giardia_ is that puppies are fairly susceptible but adults are pretty resistant. It is fairly cosmopolitan and therefore common in both people and dogs. In people common signs include flatulence and really foul smelling frothy diarrhea. A routine fecal O/P exam will not detect it.


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

lily cd re said:


> How old is Jasmin? My understanding with _Giardia_ is that puppies are fairly susceptible but adults are pretty resistant. It is fairly cosmopolitan and therefore common in both people and dogs. In people common signs include flatulence and really foul smelling frothy diarrhea. A routine fecal O/P exam will not detect it.


She turned 1 yr. a little less than a year ago. It does seem like a positive note to know that adults are more resistant, but would she still be considered a puppy?

Hmm, how long should I give it to correct itself before consulting a vet?


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## snmim (Sep 7, 2015)

My puppy had giardia without me even realizing it. She had loose stools but since this was my first dog I thought that was pretty common for puppies, then she had to get her vaccination done at 12 weeks and they did a fecal test and found out she had giardia. She got panacur for 5 days and I sanitized my yard with bleach and all that. She's good now. 
She was very playful and the only signs I could think of to detect it would be that she wasn't eating much and her stools were soft. 
I'm not too knowledgable about the subject. If your dog is eating the same regular consistent food and still has loose stools for the next few days I'd be a little worried.


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

Mithy said:


> My puppy had giardia without me even realizing it. She had loose stools but since this was my first dog I thought that was pretty common for puppies, then she had to get her vaccination done at 12 weeks and they did a fecal test and found out she had giardia. She got panacur for 5 days and I sanitized my yard with bleach and all that. She's good now.
> She was very playful and the only signs I could think of to detect it would be that she wasn't eating much and her stools were soft.
> I'm not too knowledgable about the subject. If your dog is eating the same regular consistent food and still has loose stools for the next few days I'd be a little worried.


Thank you. I think I will give 2 more days to try and clear out of her system and stick to the bland diet all today. If her stool normalizes in the morning and I switch her to her normal food and see it starting up again, I think I can pinpoint it to the food. Maybe something has changed in it. Hmm.


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## murphys (Mar 1, 2012)

Fritz came to us with Giardia. There was no doubt. Explosive diarrhea that stank to high heaven. Even with it contained within two ziplock bags. He was 7.5 months old. He was put on one med, when he finished that, he was put on another 2 weeks later to make sure it was gone. He gets tested yearly and has never had it again. We also picked up the poop and bleached.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I believe that giardia is one of those things that most dogs harbor, effects puppies the most, but occasionally you can have an adult dog who will have bouts of it "reawakening" through-out their lives. Often when they are under stress (doesn't matter if it is good or bad stress, any kind if stress seems to create the conditions in which it can proliferate).
If you are going to test her, now, while she is symptomatic would be the time. 
Though I am not sure that it can ever be completely obliterated from a dog's system, so not sure that treatment will effect their system's tendency to allow proliferation of it, but I think it would be worth a try..


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Nothing about 2.5 days of loose stools would make me suspect anything other than just a benign tummy upset. If a bland diet for 5-7 days doesn't clear it up, then I might take in a stool sample in and/or contact my vet.


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

Okay! I will have to keep an eye out. Her poos don't smell any different and it seems to be normal colored. Just extremely loose. Thanks, I appreciate the feedback, it makes me feel more confident about what telltale warning signs to know "oh, take her in immediately".

tiny, I wonder if it is just like mono? where once you get it, its in your body forever, just dormant and can reactivate at any time.


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Nothing about 2.5 days of loose stools would make me suspect anything other than just a benign tummy upset. If a bland diet for 5-7 days doesn't clear it up, then I might take in a stool sample in and/or contact my vet.


oh wow, I didn't even know I could feed the bland diet for that long. always thought it was a 1 or 2 day thing to keep up.

I have been trying to figure out how much I should be feeding her so that she isn't starving, but at the same time she isn't stressing out her colon. I know the ratio is 3:1. right now I am doing 3 small meals a day, total 1.5 cups. I hope it is a benign problem.

ugh, but to think your pup pup can get contaminated just by sniffing the wrong thing...


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Giardia is a protozoan parasite commonly found in puddles and can be in the soil, etc. Many dogs are exposed to giardia and do not develop any symptoms however sometimes adult dogs can develop giardiasis and puppies often develop giardiasis when they go to a new home (stress), etc. A particularly high environmental load also increases a dog's susceptibility to developing giardia. Because environmental reinfection is so common, it's always important to pick up stools regularly and often people will treat for giardia again about 3 weeks after the initial treatment.


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## N2Mischief (Dec 3, 2012)

1 1/2 cups a day sounds like an awful lot for a toy poodle, unless she is on the large side. I fed my 8 pound chihuahua just under 1/4 cup twice a day. I don't know how much Misha eats as she is free fed and maintains her weight as does my chihuahua Emilio.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

hollyollyc said:


> oh wow, I didn't even know I could feed the bland diet for that long. always thought it was a 1 or 2 day thing to keep up.
> 
> I have been trying to figure out how much I should be feeding her so that she isn't starving, but at the same time she isn't stressing out her colon. I know the ratio is 3:1. right now I am doing 3 small meals a day, total 1.5 cups. I hope it is a benign problem.
> 
> ugh, but to think your pup pup can get contaminated just by sniffing the wrong thing...


Lots of things can cause loose stools in puppies. When I first start to see a case of loose stool, I start giving propectalin, and usually skip a meal or 2 (I don't know if I would do this with a toy. I have standards) and then feed a bland diet for at least a few days and up to a week. I expect to see the propectalin and bland diet help stools firm up within 24-48 hours and then I usually continue a bland diet for at least 2-3 days after that before beginning to slowly add regular food back in.

What do you mean by the ratio being 3:1? There are a lot of things you can feed for a bland diet. It can be rice and burger, rice and chicken, canned ID, etc.


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

N2Mischief said:


> 1 1/2 cups a day sounds like an awful lot for a toy poodle, unless she is on the large side. I fed my 8 pound chihuahua just under 1/4 cup twice a day. I don't know how much Misha eats as she is free fed and maintains her weight as does my chihuahua Emilio.


I was feeding based off of Lincoln Way Animal Hospital's recommendations that someone had directed me to. Ugh, will have to reduce it to 1/2 cup a day for now over course of a day, maybe less. It's a good thing I only fed her 1 cup just today (the most she has gotten). Her stool just now was pale and mucous coated. Might have been because of all that rice and chicken. ? my poor baby, I am sorry.


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

CharismaticMillie said:


> What do you mean by the ratio being 3:1? There are a lot of things you can feed for a bland diet. It can be rice and burger, rice and chicken, canned ID, etc.


I think I will stop by vets tomorrow to pick up some propectalin, maybe get some feedback and learn something new while I am there. The 3:1 is for rice to chicken. I read you can do lean ground beef, certain baby food, science gi canned, etc.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

hollyollyc said:


> I was feeding based off of Lincoln Way Animal Hospital's recommendations that someone had directed me to. Ugh, will have to reduce it to 1/2 cup a day for now over course of a day, maybe less. It's a good thing I only fed her 1 cup just today (the most she has gotten). Her stool just now was pale and mucous coated. Might have been because of all that rice and chicken. ? my poor baby, I am sorry.



I believe that N2 thought that you were speaking of kibble. Maybe the calorie content of chicken and rice is different. But then rice is pretty high in calories, it could be higher than kibble?!
Rice always does the trick with my girls after maybe 1 or 2 meals of it. I really would wonder if she has something - parasite etc going on. Why not just bring in a fecal tomorrow and know for sure?


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## TrixieTreasure (May 24, 2015)

hollyollyc said:


> I think I will stop by vets tomorrow to pick up some propectalin, maybe get some feedback and learn something new while I am there. The 3:1 is for rice to chicken. I read you can do lean ground beef, certain baby food, science gi canned, etc.


I don't have any advice, but I just wanted to say good luck with your baby. I hope she gets better very quickly.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

I feed my toys 1/4 twice a day. Cayenne had the same problem I took her to the vets, and he gave me all kinds of medication, I do not know if it was Giardia, but it sounds just like what you described. She is fine now, but it took 3 weeks. I used the rice, but she picked it out of the food, so I wound up using a blender to prepare it. There was no real foul order, but sure pooped a lot and soft and runny


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

glorybeecosta said:


> I feed my toys 1/4 twice a day. Cayenne had the same problem I took her to the vets, and he gave me all kinds of medication, I do not know if it was Giardia, but it sounds just like what you described. She is fine now, but it took 3 weeks. I used the rice, but she picked it out of the food, so I wound up using a blender to prepare it. There was no real foul order, but sure pooped a lot and soft and runny


Sounds exactly like what I am dealing with. Thankfully she loves rice. I have changed to 1/4c. twice daily, more rice than chicken.

I went to the vets and after an exam including rectal, he recommended to try starting small because he found that the stool was starting to firm up a bit when he did the rectal, but thankfully no inflammation, no blood, etc. So he gave me metronidazole to give her every 12 hrs. and a probiotic nutritional supplement for dogs to sprinkle onto her meal once a day. Been watching her at work all day. Can never feel comfortable leaving her alone when shes on any medicine. So far, she hasn't gone number 2, but I am hoping it will be soft stool that can at least hold its shape.

He did mention the course of action with dogs who are diagnosed with giardia is similar. If it doesn't clear up, he advised to call back in and see if she needs testing and maybe a prescribed diet. I hope not.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Metronidazole (flagyl) is the drug of choice for treating _Giardia._


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

lily cd re said:


> Metronidazole (flagyl) is the drug of choice for treating _Giardia._


Many believe Panacur (fenbendazole) for 5-6 days does a better job of eradicating giardia than flagyl and it's much safer in puppies. A much more innocuous drug in general actually. I'm always surprised when I hear of vets still giving flagyl to young puppies!! Flagyl would be a last step for me, considering the low rate of effectiveness and high risk of potential problems, especially in puppies. 

http://www.capcvet.org/capc-recommendations/giardia

"Fenbendazole (50 mg/kg SID for 3 to 5 days) is effective in eliminating Giardia infection in dogs. Fenbendazole is approved for Giardia treatment in dogs in Europe, and available experimental evidence suggests that it is more effective than metronidazole in treating Giardia in dogs" - CAPC


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## MollyMuiMa (Oct 13, 2012)

I agree with CM....Panacur is safer.....We use it for birds and reptiles too!


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

CharismaticMillie said:


> Many believe Panacur (fenbendazole) for 5-6 days does a better job of eradicating giardia than flagyl and it's much safer in puppies. A much more innocuous drug in general actually. I'm always surprised when I hear of vets still giving flagyl to young puppies!! Flagyl would be a last step for me, considering the low rate of effectiveness and high risk of potential problems, especially in puppies.
> 
> Giardia | CAPC Vet
> 
> "Fenbendazole (50 mg/kg SID for 3 to 5 days) is effective in eliminating Giardia infection in dogs. Fenbendazole is approved for Giardia treatment in dogs in Europe, and available experimental evidence suggests that it is more effective than metronidazole in treating Giardia in dogs" - CAPC


I should have been clearer that flagyl is choice for human Giardiasis. Both drugs belong to the same class of drugs and therefore have essentially the same mechanism of action.


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

lily cd re said:


> Metronidazole (flagyl) is the drug of choice for treating _Giardia._


Now I am confused. Did he just prescribe something without testing for it? Or is metro a standard drug used to help with inflammations?

:ahhhhh:


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

hollyollyc said:


> Now I am confused. Did he just prescribe something without testing for it? Or is metro a standard drug used to help with inflammations?
> 
> :ahhhhh:


My thought would be that he probably prescribed it because it can help with benign diarrhea (dogs with IBD often take it long term) and acute colitis often involves a round of flagyl as well and would also have the added effect of possibly helping eliminate giardia if it were present.


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

CharismaticMillie said:


> My thought would be that he probably prescribed it because it can help with benign diarrhea (dogs with IBD often take it long term) and acute colitis often involves a round of flagyl as well and would also have the added effect of possibly helping eliminate giardia if it were present.


Ah, I see, thank you all for the clarifications, I was given flagyl in liquid form. It is so interesting how much information is shared on here and not brought up by the vet. I guess everyone has their "drug of choice" to work with or have contracts with (if that even is a thing).

Would it be too late to request Panacur? Would anyone continue with the Metro. based on the progress it has helped make thus far? :afraid: 

Don't get why it is even on the market when there is a far better product out there.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

hollyollyc said:


> Ah, I see, thank you all for the clarifications, I was given flagyl in liquid form. It is so interesting how much information is shared on here and not brought up by the vet. I guess everyone has their "drug of choice" to work with or have contracts with (if that even is a thing).
> 
> Would it be too late to request Panacur? Would anyone continue with the Metro. based on the progress it has helped make thus far? :afraid:
> 
> Don't get why it is even on the market when there is a far better product out there.


Well, metronidazole has its uses for sure, don't get me wrong. I'd probably stick with it since it has a general effect of calming diarrhea, your vet prescribed it, and you've had good progress so far, but if the dog truly has giardia, Panacur is probably more effective at eliminating it. But, my thought is that your dog probably doesn't have giardia.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

Lily had metronidazole when she had very bad diarrhea (probably mostly from stress) in July, so not giardiasis but inflammatory. It worked very well and quickly. It is a very tried and true drug and is in the same drug family as Panacur. I would stick with it for now.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Just on a technical note, yes it is in the same family as Panacur, but Panacur has a much lower risk of side effects (it is such a safe drug it can be used in pregnant and lactating bitches while metronidazole can cause permanent, serious neurological problems in puppies and can never be used during pregnancy or with young puppies) , also treats roundworms, hookworms, whipworms, and certain tapeworms and is more effective than metronidazole at curing giardia. However, as you described, metronidazole has a great anti-inflammatory effect when it comes to calming diarrhea, and to my knowledge, Panacur does not.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I always keep metronidazole in the house for my girls - I will give it if there are two loose stools in a row, and find it is remarkably effective when given early - one or two doses and they are perfect. Times that I have not had it in the house, and did not get to start it for a couple of days, then it can take a week to be effective.


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## hollyollyc (Dec 2, 2014)

The diarrhea is back. She was doing so well and they were firming back up, but today it's gone back to slop. The color is normal, it doesn't seem to smell any different, but it's slop.

Vet tested her blood panel and for giardia and it came back negative.

I had been mixing in her normal food little by little with rice and it was firming back up. Not sure why it reverted. Is it possible she has developed a food allergy? Should I go back to chicken and rice again or withhold food for 24 hrs? Ahhh.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

hollyollyc said:


> The diarrhea is back. She was doing so well and they were firming back up, but today it's gone back to slop. The color is normal, it doesn't seem to smell any different, but it's slop.
> 
> Vet tested her blood panel and for giardia and it came back negative.
> 
> I had been mixing in her normal food little by little with rice and it was firming back up. Not sure why it reverted. Is it possible she has developed a food allergy? Should I go back to chicken and rice again or withhold food for 24 hrs? Ahhh.


She's a bit young for a food allergy but she could have a sensitive tummy. I'd skip 1-2 meals, maybe just a teeny bit of rice, and then start the chicken and rice.


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## West U (Jul 30, 2014)

None of my dogs have had Giardia, but I have. I ended up in the emergency room, very sick. If it is really Giardia you have to run tests and wait for the results. Be very careful it's easily transmittable. What a mess it is.


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