# Picky eater or sick? Eager on one meal but refuse next?



## oooo (Jul 18, 2017)

I really need some insights from more experienced poodle owners. My standard poodle puppy (7.5mo) was really excited with his TOTW kibble during 4-6 month and would work on food puzzle for an hour for his meal. Slowly get him to honest kitchen. He started vomit bile in morning and changed from eager eater to won't touch it in a few weeks. I guessed he digested HK too fast and offered cookie before bed which seemed helped. Put him back to TOTW and he eagerly cleaned it, then gradually lost interest to not eating quickly. Tried wellness core, naturals balance, nature's dome later on. The first meal, he would be soooo interested in the new food (very small amount) and finish it. Then wont touch it the second day. 

With his on/off morning acid vomit, vet give him hills id prescriptions kibble to try. He now ONLY wants his prescription food which is mainly rice+flavoring...I do not see this can go long term and I noticed the hills is way more smellier than any other good kibble. Maybe that is why?

*Why he eats new food with eagerness one meal then never want to touch it and just want hills? Does this still sounds like picky eater or he might get upset stomach from even the little new food and decides he does not want it?* If he is actual sick, why would he love to finish hills and training treats? If he is not sick and just picky, do you see dogs can starve to vomit acid and still prefers hunger than good kibble?

I cannot put chicken or any very good food in it to get him to eat since he has ton of reactive problems that needs actual good stuff for training. Should I more firmly go with tough love (pick up food, tiny amount of training treats) *even he starve to vomit*? (He is not losing weight and playful otherwise.) Thank you so much for your time and inputs!!


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## marialydia (Nov 23, 2013)

There might be something else going on...your puppy is just finishing his last major growth spurt, and no longer needs or wants so much food. But curiosity will make him try something new. 

Pericles started refusing food around that age. I was determined to give him the "good stuff" but will admit that I've made it more interesting to him by putting some "sauce" on it. Usually it's about a quarter can of high quality dog food; a few times a week it's a heaping tablespoon of full fat yogurt; sometimes it's a bit of white rice with or without sweet potato; sometimes a bit of sardines or egg. He loves all of the above. 

But he does occasionally refuse some of his food, or skip a meal.

Since about 15 months of age, he's been a steady 54.5 to 55.5 pounds -- he has regulated his weight perfectly, even with refusing food.

Of course, you should always introduce a new food gradually -- 25/75 for a couple of days, then 50/50, then 75/25...

The vomiting on an empty stomach might be a question of timing, too.

Of course, being clever, standard poodles have been known to train their humans into giving the food they want, through such tactics. I strongly doubt that he will starve himself. Just monitor the weight...


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I believe that while dogs can certainly be faddy, especially if holding out leads to better and better food, they also often refuse food because it smells wrong, because they know it is going to cause them stomach problems, or for other good reasons like a sore mouth. The fact that he enjoys the Hills food would to me indicate a possible intolerance to some ingredient or ingredients that are in the other foods but not in the Hills. Processed chicken and beef are common culprits, lurking under poultry or meat meal or in the oils sprayed on kibble. I would move to a home made diet, or failing that look into limited ingredient kibbles, starting with one that is as close as possible to the Hlls.


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## oooo (Jul 18, 2017)

marialydia-- thank you so much for the reply! It is very good to know your pup also did similar not that food interested change around this age. Yes, he is growing slower now. He also gives more trouble on breakfast (8-9 am), fuss less on dinner (6 pm). If he vomits acid, that is morning. But even if he does not eat his breakfast, he can get to 6 pm without vomiting. And appears to be willing to eat any thing before bed. I cannot really delay his dinner time since he is way too reactive/scared after dark to poop...I mixed in good kibble slowly with hills. When the good kibble exceeds like half the amount, he starts giving me trouble. I have cans, but was worried if I mix in smellier stuff he will get more pickier.

fjm--Thank you for the input!! I am already exhausted on his fear barking training and it costs a lot bring him to daycare (because he has trouble going on normal walks). So I am not able to do home cook at this point. Will do it if his training is settled later. This hills he eats has rice, corn, chicken meal, pea protein, and some pork fat, liver flavoring as main ingredients. But very strongly smells than all the good meat based kibbles and HK I tried. I feel he cannot stay on the hills food because it is basically rice+corn. He loves real chicken but still refused chicken based 2 kibble+HK. Also refused HK beef, NB limited ingredient lamb, and ND selmon. Thinking through what you are saying. I am wondering maybe I can add smelly can food into the good kibble. If he continue eating it for a while and not vomit, it should be him being picky, right? Otherwise, if he gets sick from the good kibble, he should also link it to the smelly can food and refuse to eat that as well?


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Have you measured how much you are feeding him through training treats? If you are doing a lot of intensive training it is possible to feed a lot of calories that way. I think I would try increasing the animal protein level of the Hills by adding eggs, chicken (or any other meat he enjoys and does not react to), cottage cheese, canned fish with bones etc - around 20-25% by volume. Or perhaps feed canned or other moist food rather than kibble? If you consider the money you must have wasted on kibble you have thrown away, and the possibility that sorting out any digestive problems may also help him feel more comfortable in himself and improve the behavioral issues, it could work out cheaper than kibble!

You may find this article helpful: DogAware.com Articles: Inappetence in Dogs


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

You have already gotten good thinking from the other respondents, but I want to ask you about the fear barking training and the need for doggie daycare. What are you doing about the barking, private trainer or other? How do you think doggie daycare is going to help improve his ability to walk with you? What happens when you walk with your pup?

The time it takes to train a young dog to enjoy a walk on leash with his/her most important people is well worth it not just for the exercise (and exercising a dog fixes many problems) but it is a bonding experience that gives you the connection to fix many behavior concerns yourself.


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## oooo (Jul 18, 2017)

fjm--He gets only a little training treats. I shred chicken to tiny pieces. So he gets a fist size over the span of 2-3 days. He used to get 4cups of kibble, now maybe 3 if he eats (fuss too much in breakfast). And the whole reason that I did not add fresh food to his kibble is that I use all the easy fresh food for training, egg, peanut butter, cheese etc. He has to really want the human food looking things so he can still some what hold himself together before going to barking/lunging none stop (he had zero socialization to city life upon arriving). I just bought small kibble bags for him to try.

This is a new thing...yesterday I left a little ND selmon (he rejected already in the morning) at night outside. He finished it and kept licking the bowl before bedtime. He finished his hills+a little selmon very quickly as dinner. This morning, he went out to potty and I routinely offered a few pieces of hills as reward (he got chicken reward yesterday because that is all I had at that time). *He nosed the hills kibble to the ground and walked away. Then picked a few bits of his 2/3 hills food when we are back inside, rejected eating*. But no vomit this morning (yeah!). Is him just not hungry in the morning??


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## oooo (Jul 18, 2017)

lili cd re-- Thank you for the input! Yes. I really want him to be able to go on walks. He had zero city life socialization when I got him at 4 month. And the first two weeks I could not even turn on sound of my computer, or cough without him going barking/lunging non-stop. He just anxiously scan surrounding on walks waiting for any thing/people/sound then go barking nonstop. I live in big apartment complex and he used to not able finish potty without a few outbursts, and barking/bump into my door when some one passes my door like every 10 minutes. 

I cannot find personal trainer in my area (iowa) who are specialized on reactive pup. So I just read books and tried the counter conditioning myself. Just people show up=chicken. I do not have helper dogs to do proper BAT, etc. Now he is 90% better. He can mostly ignore people, give a single bark then run to me for treats for the hallway sound, ignore all the sounds made by me, and give a few barks but sit when I ask, then investigate foreign objects quietly. The only big problem now is the on leash dog. He goes nuts upon seeing one...It is funny, but he did not give a single bark in 2 puppy kindergarten group classes, dog park, and daycare. He just pest every dog for play, naps in at-home daycare with loose dogs running around, and he is the model pup in classes, demonstrating loose leash walking through all the pups... 

All the books requires the dog to minimize outbursts and remain under threshold to learn, so all the walks are now planned small training walks after daycare. The daycare seemed to be helpful on his reaction to dogs. He used to be totally freak out barking/lunging for every on leash dog. Now he some times just want to drag me over to play (and might give a little frustrated barks), or show interest but not crazy barking so I can reward and call him away. If he just spent good hours of offleash playing (either daycare or with neighbor's dog), his mind is more likely in the playful mood for a while and he seems more happy/curious, just wants to sniff passing people, or drag me over to play with on leash dogs. 

He still can goes nuts for some dogs for reasons I cannot tell, especially early morning and after dark, maybe the other dogs' poster or something. And I found if I carry very good food with me, he is thinking about earning the food by good leash walking, and less quickly to react so I get a chance to continue treat and prevent the whole outburst.

I really hope when he is 1 or 2 years old. He could be like 'normal' dogs I saw, happily walking with owner. And I do not need to be so strict on only give good food on training.


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## marialydia (Nov 23, 2013)

oooo said:


> I really hope when he is 1 or 2 years old. He could be like 'normal' dogs I saw, happily walking with owner. And I do not need to be so strict on only give good food on training.


Yes, if you keep up the training, and positive reinforcement, you will get there!

Pericles was doing well as a pup, but then I moved long distance and my very old mini poo needed more support. So unfortunately I let up on Pericles' training. But we have picked it up and now at the age of 3, he is a doll. He walks nicely on leash. He mostly ignores other dogs. If he sees a squirrel, he looks at me for guidance and a possible treat. He sits when someone comes to the door, although when he breaks the sit, he might still get a bit rambunctious.

I do want him to bark as a warning, but he's also good now, if I thank him for barking and then tell him that's enough. Generally he will then come to me for some more positive reinforcement...


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## oooo (Jul 18, 2017)

fjm--forgot to say, thank you for the link! It is very informative. 

I wanted to get him on dehydrated food honest kitchen (closer to home cook) and stop kibble when him at 5 month old. The chicken one only has 6 ingredients, Chicken, organic quinoa, sweet potatoes, spinach, parsley, organic kelp. others are all vitamin. (The hills has chicken meal and he loves sweet potato. So if he react, then it would be quinoa, spinach, parsley or kelp. But these are not in other kibbles or HKs he tried.) He started morning vomit and refused to eat after about 7lbs. This is the start of him not eating thing.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I understand much better now. Thanks for explaining. It does sound like you have made good progress. If you think you want a private trainer you can try looking for one through the Association of Professional Dog Trainers. Here is a link to their home page. https://apdt.com/ There is a link to a search tool to find trainers at the top of the page. I suggest trying to find someone who is CPDT-KA certified.

BTW Lily skips meals sometimes. I think it is her way of regulating her weight. She will be nine years old in September.


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## oooo (Jul 18, 2017)

marialydia--Thank you for the encouragement!!! I am always anxious that he might never reach there and our 10 years together will be like this, always carefully planned and tiptoed. I do not even mind he wants run away for squirrel. As long as he does not get non-stop reactive barking every block, I am more than happy. I cannot move to a house or new location with good reactive pup trainer before he is 2 and he will see/go nuts every day during potty outside of my building with dogs passing by.

I am just so exhausted with routine puppy training+reactive training after almost 4 month of 'battle' with him (besides I have a stressful job), so I hope he can stick to one easy food for a while until I get some energy (and spare money) to improve his food condition. I knew good food may link to good behavior, but he refused the only within budget dehydrated chicken HK. Then we are stuck on finding a kibble (with potential can mix for flavor) or wait him out on picking what to eat. But if he is actually sick and nauseous, he will for sure be more reactive. That is where I conflicted. He also needs to go boarding some time this year with the same at-home daycare and I cannot expect them to do home cook. 

He successfully trained me to be 'reactive' on his reactive barks after these months. I thought I am a very patient and hard to get irritated person. Oh, boy, he showed me how hard it is for him to control emotion/not bark by giving me the strong emotion and I had to be very up-beat though totally frustrated by his strong nonstop alert bark.


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## oooo (Jul 18, 2017)

Wow, thank you lily cd re! Some magic just happened! I actually tried apdt search long time ago. The only trainer within reach is a leader for service dog training organization. I thought she would not take companion dog cases with already a lot in her plate so did not call. Today, after reading your post, I think, whatever, I will just call and see if she will take this case. I already tried my best from learning from books working with him hours a day, totally exhausted and spent a ton in daycare etc, and really need guidance from a good trainer. 

And she will take this case!!! Finger and toes crossed on this will work out. 

He is my first dog ever and I thought I was ready after reading a ton and researched, waited for a good breeding for months. Well, I was ready to some extent. All the common puppy problems solved with ease. He has full run of apartment, no potty accidents for a month. Fall sleep when I am gone. Not mouthy, no humping, no table/furniture jumping, no guests greeting jumping. Calm indoor and fall asleep whenever I get on my bed. 

But I had to pick him up late (4 month old) because family emergency...And he missed early socialization. With the natural watch dog ability of poodle, I got caught up totally unprepared with barking/lunging. He is just a funny dog. I would think normal dog gets afraid of thunderstorm, or vaccine. He is fearless on those, but bark crazy for a plastic bag on grass... Luckily he had been improving this several month after I tried every thing I humanly can. Otherwise I would get traumatized.


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## rj16 (Jan 30, 2017)

That's great news! I suspect that combined with your willingness to put in the work, this trainers advice will work wonders. 

On the food front... [I'm sorry if I'm repeating or have missed any details along the way.]*In your shoes I would choose a good kibble (preferably one you know he has liked in the past), buy a fresh bag and try a bit of tough love. Put the portion of food down and let him eat it at his speed. If he starts getting hunger pukes again (if that's what it was determined to be), you'll maybe need to spread out his meals more or adjust the time at which you feed him. 
Strangely I've found that Monty is more inclined to eat food he is less interested in if it is in a kong. It's counterintuitive but I think the fact that he can only get a bit at a time increases the value. So maybe try some food dispensing toys?
Make sure that the kibble is being used up quickly and stored in an airtight container in the meantime. It can go stale in very little time. 
I'm not sure if it is the same where you are but here pet stores are fantastic about food returns. Satisfaction guarantee means if your dog doesn't like it or it doesn't agree with him, you can exchange it. Take advantage of that! Trying to find the best food should not cost you too much money. 
Try different proteins, not just different brands, if he seems uninterested. We recently found that Monty loves a certain fish kibble whereas he eats the red meat one with little interest.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

I am glad the person you found on APDT can take you as a client. Sometimes it is really helpful to have an objective observer take stock of what is happening. It sounds like you are dog savvy and just need a helping hand. I hope that works out well for you.


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## oooo (Jul 18, 2017)

rh16-- Thank you for the encouragement and all the info! I started him with hand feeding since I used all his food in training the basic indoor calmness. Then transferred to puzzle toys. He used to work on these during 4-6 month old for an hour a meal and tired enough for nap. I thought he is a very food motivated poodle at that time and feel it would be ok to give him some better food, like dehydrated HK. Then this whole problem started at 6 month old. He was eager when transferring back to kibble then gradually refused to eat from puzzle toy, then refused to eat from bow, then refused to eat even if I hand feed or spread kibble on floor like a game. But in general, when thinking through, he seems more hungry and would eat any thing at dinner, especially before bed. I *think* if I leave the food out all day, he will finish it before bed. Currently I am too afraid to give him too much at night since he might need to poop middle of night and ruin all the finally settled good whole night sleeping habit. Maybe that is him regulating this food intake with some pickiness blended in, or he just feels better at night and a little sick in the morning? I will do the better container thing you suggested. 

Out of desperate with the whole training+food situation. I just bought the super expensive cleverpet food toy to try. If he gets hooked up with the doggy gaming console, maybe that can solve both his food fussing and boredom together (ready to return if not). Hopefully I can bring him a few times less to daycare and eventually save a little in the long run. I now save up all my patience and "emotional power" on his barking/lunging training, and too emotional drained to play scent games or trick training for his indoor mental stimulation.


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## oooo (Jul 18, 2017)

lily cd re-- Yes!! Even if the trainer cannot do hands on training, just only sit down with me going through all the stuff, observing what's happening and can help me set a training plan that can actually work for my situation will be tremendously helpful!! 

I worked so hard with him for my own sanity. He is a LOT to handle as a first time dog owner. If I knew it is this hard, I would get a smaller dog (at least less a scene if barking) or an adult cat to start with. Have not gotten much chance to experience the "benefits of owning a dog". I cannot just re-home a reactive pup hoping others have the time to train this through. I already saw a spoodle get debarked and still returned to breeder...Then I have no choice but try to get this to work and keep telling myself: life will be good after he reaches 2. Luckily, he is so good otherwise now and sweet which recharges me from time to time.


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## Asta's Mom (Aug 20, 2014)

It sounds like you have your hands full but are on the right path. To tell you about Asta, he is what may be termed a picky eater - sometimes he will skip meals. I used to feed him in the morning and at night but he simply stopped eating in the morning and now I only feed him at night. I use a combination of Nature's Recipe chicken kibble, Only Natural MaxMeat and he loves the Merrick canned Wingalings (this is chicken) On this he usually eats good but like I said sometimes he will skip a meal. Asta is now just over 2 years old.


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## oooo (Jul 18, 2017)

Asta's Mom--That is great to hear!! Jacky is now eagerly working on the same bowl of food he rejected this morning. Maybe he is the same as Asta! I am just amazed by an animal could reject meal and prefer hunger...I cannot do that to my meal, even if it is the same old thing. Maybe that is why I do not have the magic of automatic regulate weight without a scale, lol.


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