# Need crate training advice



## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

people do use x-pens with the crate inside but door open . if you have a large enough area, maybe an x-pen with a potty patch? the best option is a dog walker, because you really do not want your dog to feel his crate is an appropriate place to relieve himself. one of the key things is for the dog to learn boundaries with regard to that function. it's very common to help the dog extrapolate from crate to the rest of the house - don't relieve yourself in your small house or your big one. that can work the wrong way, too, so that the message the dog receives is, okay in your small house, okay in the big one, too.


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## glorybeecosta (Nov 11, 2014)

Can you put him in a kitchen with a potty pad. Dogs really do not want to go in their crates and that is to long for a young dog. I give my dogs the entire kitchen when I leave with a potty pad (not the paper ones I use the astro turf one, looks like grass


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## Viking Queen (Nov 12, 2014)

My pup was the same age as yours when I got her. I hired a very, very responsible neighbor child (12 yrs old) along with her 14 year old brother to take Iris out and play and potty her every afternoon after school. This was done with their parental permission/supervision. Iris was happy to see them each day, it socialized her to children and she wasn't cooped up the entire day. She potty trained like a champ, and in a very short period of time. I did not put pads in the crate and she never had an accident in there either. We played hard in the mornings before I left for work and she was usually asleep when my helpers arrived after school.

I wish you the best of luck. Enjoy that new pup!

Viking Queen

P.S. I found out later that their Mom would often take Iris to soccer and baseball practice to watch her kids play. Iris had a secret life and all the soccer/baseball Moms, Dads and kids loved her. It was hilarious when I found out about The Secret Life of Iris


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

I am sorry to have to say that you are in for a lot of training problems. Would you leave a young child home alone 10 hrs a day. And if you did what kind of problems might you expect?. It is frankly irresponsible and cruel to adopt a 9 week old puppy and place it in solitary confinement each day. I imagine that the dog is crated at night too!! That being said, patk's advice is sound. You must later have some kind of "run", where your dog can at least move about a little.
Eric.


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## Brad (Jan 21, 2015)

Patk...wouldn't a potty patch also teach him it's okay to go inside?

And I'm certain there are many people out there who work and have puppies. I posted for help and not to be admonished.


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## UKtwa (Jan 8, 2015)

My Penny is now 11 weeks old, i also work but thank goodness i can take off for lunch and go home. She still has an accident ever now and then in her crate but i think that could also be my fault because we go out in the morning before i leave to play and sometimes she is so caught up in playing she forgets to go and i forget to make sure she does go. She is in for 4 hours in the morning out for two and in for 3 then out the rest of the night until 7:30 the next morning. I agree that maybe look into either a neighbor going in and letting her out or maybe start training her to stay in the kitchen. Just make sure that all items of temptation are put up LOL.


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## Raysoflite (Dec 17, 2014)

I'm not an expert but I would guess that if the puppy is soiling his crate then he's going to be more difficult to housebreak. It's unnatural for canine's to urinate/defecate where they sleep. Unfortunately, under your pups current circumstances, I don't see a way around that. He is physiologically incapable of holding his movements that long. Honestly, 10 hours is too long for a dog, let alone a puppy, to be in a crate. Is there anyway you can hire a dog walker? Or perhaps sending him to doggie day care?


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## patk (Jun 13, 2013)

Brad said:


> Patk...wouldn't a potty patch also teach him it's okay to go inside?
> 
> And I'm certain there are many people out there who work and have puppies. I posted for help and not to be admonished.


potty patches have a different surface. there is a belief (i have to call it that, because i have not looked for scientific back-up) that dogs tend to associate where they can/should go with what they felt with their paws when trained. so far all potty patches i've seen come with either fake or real grass. paper and/or pee pad training can work, also, but then you may still have the issue of getting the dog to understand outside and on the grass. when i lived on the east coast, we had a heavy snowfall one winter and there was an old scottie that just would not/could not go in snow. finally a kindly neighbor shoveled out a spot so there was real grass/dirt exposed and the dog was able to relieve himself. 

sorry if i seemed to be admonishing you. that was not my intention.


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## Naira (Jan 9, 2015)

It will slow your transition to a fully potty trained dog. And it will be really stressful on the dog. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings or be judgmental, but for 3 years I have wanted a Standard Poodle but my schedule never permitted. There were plenty of times where I wanted the dog NOW and I have even gone as far as to put a deposit on a litter last year but ended up getting my money back. I was able to wait for 3 years because I imagined myself locked in a small room where I barely had enough space to turn around, for hours...and having the urge to urinate/defecate so badly that I soiled myself..and how humiliating and stressful that would be. And then having that happen multiple times.

Now I have seen people in your situation eventually train their pups, but it takes much longer and is a lot messier and quite stressful for everyone involved. 

I work and have a 12 week old standard...luckily I am close enough to give her 45 minutes out of the crate to play and potty during my lunchbreak. If I were in your situation I would seriously consider hiring a neighbor/dog walker etc to give your dog a break. I feel like repeated soiling in the crate will make your dog anxious, delay housebreaking, and make the crate a not so happy place to be in either!

Good luck...if I lived any where near you I would love to take your dog out.Animals are living and breathing creatures with feelings that we have to consider even if it inconveniences us financially/time wise...that's the decision we make when we adopt a living being


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

And I'm certain there are many people out there who work and have puppies. I posted for help and not to be admonished.[/QUOTE]


No one has admonished you. We have placed the facts before you. If you perceive these facts as admonishment. then it is you who are admonishing yourself in the realization of those facts.

Because I feel so strongly about issues, like childhood neglect and untrained dogs and children, I am very careful to place facts, as I see them, and not place criticism, of those who come to this forum for help and advise. Equally I try not to get into unnecessary argument, however intellectually informed it might be.

However (and I do not refer to "Brad" here) When posts from poorly prepared, busy, and thus, distressed people with new puppies, show that the puppy is also distressed, I am tempted to be strongly critical.

I hope, Brad, that you are well prepared. I hope you have had dogs before this. I hope that you are a conscientious and patient trainer. Because in your situation you will need to be all of these, to have success, with a standard poodle. A much loved breed here, but one famously difficult to train because of its intellect and strong, determined personality.

If you do have problems, do rest assured, you will get all the help you might require here. But be prepared for constructive criticism.

Eric.


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## Tiny Poodles (Jun 20, 2013)

I am sorry, but there just are no magical solutions - you either have to be there to train your puppy, or you have arrange for/hire someone who will. If you cannot swing either of those then the only humane thing to do would be to immediately rehome him, because what you are doing now is virtually guaranteed to make hime permanently unhousebroken - do you want to live with an unhousebroken 50 pound dog for the next 15 years?

But, and I hesitate to suggest this, because it is not a good solution, but if you insist upon leaving the situation as is, then you should get him a crate with a wire floor so at least the waste will drop through to the tray below and he won't have to wallow in it for hours....


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## FireStorm (Nov 9, 2013)

Brad said:


> Patk...wouldn't a potty patch also teach him it's okay to go inside?
> 
> And I'm certain there are many people out there who work and have puppies. I posted for help and not to be admonished.


As it is, it is physically impossible for your puppy (and probably many adult dogs) to hold it all day. If you really can't find anyone to let him out, or a doggy daycare, I think an ex-pen adjoining the crate, with a potty pad is a far better option than having him soil his crate. It would be better for him to learn not to go in the crate, but to go in the designated spot in the pen. That seems like a dramatically better idea than having him go in his crate and learn that it is acceptable to sit in his own mess.

I don't envy you, trying to housebreak a puppy while working such long hours. It is part of the reason I was dog less for so long.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

I see a lot of similarities in this tread to this older one. Dare I say, this could be, a Troll!

http://www.poodleforum.com/2-member-introductions/133049-new-member-two-new-poodle-puppies.html

Send us some nice photo's of your lovely new standard poodle Brad. We all love puppies!!

Eric.


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## Brad (Jan 21, 2015)

Yes Eric. I posted it incorrectly in the wrong forum. But thanks for calling me out as a troll. Much appreciated.


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## ericwd9 (Jun 13, 2014)

I have not called you out. I have suggested that we might be being trolled, yet again.
It is!! a recurrent problem. I hope that you are not and that we can all be of help to you.
Eric.


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## lily cd re (Jul 23, 2012)

You absolutely must get someone to come take that puppy out at least one and very preferably two or more times during the day. the amount of time you are leaving this puppy alone is way too long for lots of reasons: housebreaking, socialization (poodles are very people oriented dogs), training opportunities, etc. I would also switch to Ian Dunbar's recommended set up where you use a crate and an ex-pen with an acceptable potty area in the ex-pen far from the crate. See page two of this thread for a description of how to set that up. http://www.poodleforum.com/23-general-training-obedience/100970-ian-dunbar-seminar-workshop-2.html

I wish you nothing but success and hope that you will stick with us. We are passionate about our dogs and sometimes we come off strong, but it isn't meant to offend.


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## Poodlerunner (Jul 4, 2014)

Brad said:


> Patk...wouldn't a potty patch also teach him it's okay to go inside?
> 
> And I'm certain there are many people out there who work and have puppies. I posted for help and not to be admonished.



Well, don't take it personally. What Eric said was harsh but the truth. Poodle people aren't going to pull any punches here. There are those here that will tell it to you straight. You must suck it up and listen for the sake of your pup. 

You absolutely should not leave your puppy alone all day while you work. Find a puppy day care. Find a dog walker. Poodles are high maintenance

pr


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## marialydia (Nov 23, 2013)

There is an adage that goes around that puppies can "hold it" for their age in months +1 in hours. So, at nine weeks that means three hours max. This jibes with my own dog experience...I've always taken my pups out every two hours, then every three, and so on. I'm with lily cd re, the best would be someone twice during the time when you are out. Even better, dog boarding (assuming the lack of shots means no day care). This way you can ask for him (what's his name, btw?) to be taken out every 2 to 2 and a half hours.

Don't worry, this stage does not last long. But, what you do now, will have a determining impact on the rest of your dog's life, trainability, and relationship with you. It will be effort, and money, very well spent. 

But please don't leave him alone for 10 hours. It's untenable, unfair, and will not set a basis for a good companionship between you and your dog.


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