# MPS yep, it happens.



## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Congratulations!! Who is the sire of the litter, and where is he? I am looking for potential boys for the baby for 2014.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

That's very exciting news! Keep us informed.


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## RileysMommy (Jul 18, 2011)

YAY! Congratulations! I am excited for you! I'm sure he/she and Bonnie will be friends!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> Congratulations!! Who is the sire of the litter, and where is he? I am looking for potential boys for the baby for 2014.


I'll pm you.


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## momofthree (Apr 9, 2011)

Don't forget to make a birth announcement!  So excited for you!


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

WOW...what exciting news!! So happy for you and Bonnie. Cant wait to see this little one grow up here. Congrats!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Arreau, sire of this litter is DNA color tested black only. It is the dams sire that was apricot/red. Of course, with your red girl, the puppies would be red and black without much fading in the red? Hmmm.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I hope to make a birth announcement soon. Breeder let me know Mama is doing lots of panting today.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

CONGRATULATIONS!!!! What exciting news! Can't wait to hear how it all turns out. All the best to you and your about-to-be-expanding family!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

How exciting!!! Please do share the sire/dam! It's fun to look at pedigrees of upcoming puppies!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Just got a call from breeder (sweet of her to call)!!! Puppies being born right now, already have that black boy. I will tell you guys tomorrow about the litter. SO exciting! I have waited a long time. 

CM, I would like to keep the sire private, but he is a nice looking AKC and UKC champion. He is 9 years old, very healthy, nice front end () with health proven pups in the past.  Dam is a beautiful UKC GrCh Tiara black girl. Here is a picture of the dam as a young girl:


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

outwest said:


> Just got a call from breeder (sweet of her to call)!!! Puppies being born right now, already have that black boy. I will tell you guys tomorrow about the litter. SO exciting! I have waited a long time.
> 
> *CM, I would like to keep the sire private*, but he is a nice looking AKC and UKC champion. He is almost 9 years old with health proven pups in the past.  Dam is a beautiful UKC GrCh Tiara black girl.


Will there be a point when you would share with us?! Kind of ruins the fun...


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Sorry to ruin the fun, but I am a little gun shy.  He is a totally different line than the dam is. I did edit and crosspost with you a pic of the dam at least!


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## Clicker (Apr 28, 2012)

Sorry for being ignorant but what is MPS? and Wycliffe?


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## Ms Stella (Aug 16, 2010)

outwest said:


> Just got a call from breeder (sweet of her to call)!!! Puppies being born right now, already have that black boy. I will tell you guys tomorrow about the litter. SO exciting! I have waited a long time.
> 
> CM, I would like to keep the sire private, but he is a nice looking AKC and UKC champion. He is 9 years old, very healthy, nice front end () with health proven pups in the past.  Dam is a beautiful UKC GrCh Tiara black girl. Here is a picture of the dam as a young girl:


Why keep a sir private...? I honestly have no clue as to why a person would do this. Im curious to know why? Can you explain? Thanks , Tammie


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I would imagine it is because the OP has been picked at relentlessly about her girl Bonnie, and about her possible choice of a future sire for a Bonnie litter. Personally Outwest, I'd keep it to yourself and not let anyone rain on your parade.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

double post


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> I would imagine it is because the OP has been picked at relentlessly about her girl Bonnie, and about her possible choice of a future sire for a Bonnie litter. Personally Outwest, I'd keep it to yourself and not let anyone rain on your parade.


I haven't seen Outwest being picked at. Rather, I've seen her being questioned just as any breeder should be. People like to see that...that a breeder can defend their ethics, morals, and goals as a breeder. Comes with the territory!

I too don't understand why someone would keep their new puppy's sire private for any reason other than lack of confidence in that choice. Or at least, that's the only reason *I* would ever keep it private. And our perceptions of others decisions are of course colored by our own beliefs. Personally, I wouldn't be very excited about getting a new dog if I couldn't run out and start bragging to everyone about my dog's sire and dam. But that's just me. Perhaps Outwest just likes to keep things to herself.

Either way, should Outwest decide to tell us who her new puppy's parents are, I think everyone would be happy for her. Even more, I bet a lot of people could learn from the thought that went into the decisions she made as far as why she chose a puppy with those specific parents. Clearly if Outwest waited for 6 months, she had very good reasons for that specific sire and dam. I have more respect for someone with beliefs different from mine who is able to defend their beliefs than someone who shares all of my beliefs but is just following the crowd and cannot defend.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> I would imagine it is because the OP has been picked at relentlessly about her girl Bonnie, and about her possible choice of a future sire for a Bonnie litter. Personally Outwest, I'd keep it to yourself and not let anyone rain on your parade.


Thank you for understanding (big hug). That is the exact reason, Arreau. I thought I could share like other people do who don't give every detail about the puppies breeding. I am excited, too, because the sires owner is a show groomer and can help with show grooming! My groomer with do wash and shave, I will do brushing and coat care, sires owner can do trimming!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

CharismaticMillie said:


> I haven't seen Outwest being picked at. Rather, I've seen her being questioned just as any breeder should be. People like to see that...that a breeder can defend their ethics, morals, and goals as a breeder. Comes with the territory!
> 
> I too don't understand why someone would keep their new puppy's sire private for any reason other than lack of confidence in that choice. Or at least, that's the only reason *I* would ever keep it private. And our perceptions of others decisions are of course colored by our own beliefs. Personally, I wouldn't be very excited about getting a new dog if I couldn't run out and start bragging to everyone about my dog's sire and dam. But that's just me. Perhaps Outwest just likes to keep things to herself.
> 
> Either way, should Outwest decide to tell us who her new puppy's parents are, I think everyone would be happy for her. Even more, I bet a lot of people could learn from the thought that went into the decisions she made as far as why she chose a puppy with those specific parents. Clearly if Outwest waited for 6 months, she had very good reasons for that specific sire and dam. I have more respect for someone with beliefs different from mine who is able to defend their beliefs than someone who shares all of my beliefs but is just following the crowd and cannot defend.


I don't feel like defending and have nothing to defend in my eyes. I am tired of it. 

I am getting a beautiful black puppy to love and play with and be part of my family. I am thinking of names. Can't figure one out yet, but I will!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

outwest said:


> I don't feel like defending and have nothing to defend in my eyes. I am tired of it.
> 
> I am getting a beautiful black puppy to love and play with and be part of my family. I am thinking of names. Can't figure one out yet, but I will!


That's not really what I meant. I was speaking in general because Arreau mentioned that you have been picked at. I was explaining that most of the "picking" (as Arreau sees it) was in regards to potential breeding choices and that comes with the territory.

As far as a puppy, I can't imagine anyone would "pick at you". It's not like you're going to breed Bonnie to an 8 week old puppy...A puppy is a puppy! But _of course_ if you decide to breed this puppy when he is grown up to Bonnie you should expect to be asked some questions from puppy buyers, people you meet, and people on this forum and I am sure you will be happy to defend your decisions as you will be confident in them. 

Anyway, I am with Stella. A bit confused as to why someone would want to hide the sire of their puppy.

I really would have been excited to know. I find enjoyment in learning about new lines, particularly when people put a lot of thought into something. You can never stop learning with this breed!


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## pgr8dnlvr (Aug 7, 2011)

I think you should name him "Malcolm" or "Clyde". I know I'm not very original in my names, but still they're kinda cute right? 

Of coarse the registered name would probably be something COMPLETELY different!

Rebecca


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I think Clyde is adorable! Bonnie and Clyde. How cute!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Bonnie and Clyde? LOL Malcolm is cute.


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

Congrats! That's something to look forward to. Fun with a puppy!


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## PoodleMomAnew (Dec 22, 2010)

How exciting for you and Bonnie! I am sure she (and you) will love having another spoo around the house to frolic with, especially a black male. Of course I am partial to them and rather prejudice in that area. I love Clyde for "his" name, too, Bonnie & Clyde.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

Another vote for Bonnie and Clyde!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

CM, I may feel more comfortable talking about the sire later on (puppies are being born right now!). Suffice it to say sire is an AKC CH black poodle and almost ALL of them have issues to yack about in their pedigrees and this one is no exception. If my new puppy has the personalities of the sire and dam plus the intelligence I know is in the dams lines, he will be an awesome addition to my family!

I am not so sure about Clyde...it isn't very, well, poodly. I was thinking about something like Robin or Levi or Cosmo or Tommy, but none of those are sitting right. I like two syllable dog names with a hard sound at the beginning.


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## momofthree (Apr 9, 2011)

Well, because Bonnie is a Scottish name, I was thinking along those lines. Like maybe, Angus, or Scotty or Colin, or Barkley, or Aiden? 

Or, my favorite for a boy dog, Winston ( although, it's more Brittish than Scottish) . I dunno....just some ideas. You'll find the perfect name for your boy! 

Btw....do you know how many have been born yet?


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Clicker said:


> Sorry for being ignorant but what is MPS? and Wycliffe?


MPS is multiple poodle syndrome. It strikes the best of us. 

Wycliffe was a kennel in the 50's/60's/early 70's that was used by nearly everyone so that many of the black standard poodles worldwide today are genetically 50% or more from the Wycliffe kennel dogs. That kennel practiced serious inbreeding (siblings, mother to son, you name it), which produced beautiful dogs with lovely temperaments, but also caused a genetic bottle neck that people have attributed to some of the disease issues standard poodles can have. Not much was known about genetic diversity, or people didn't think it important. Some breeders are trying very hard to find dogs without much Wycliffe influence in them so that standard poodles become more genetically diverse. Some people feel it isn't critical to do that and most of the winning black AKC poodles today remain around 50% Wycliffe.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

momofthree said:


> Well, because Bonnie is a Scottish name, I was thinking along those lines. Like maybe, Angus, or Scotty or Colin, or Barkley, or Aiden?
> 
> Or, my favorite for a boy dog, Winston ( although, it's more Brittish than Scottish) . I dunno....just some ideas. You'll find the perfect name for your boy!
> 
> Btw....do you know how many have been born yet?


Right in the midst of it! A few so far! Probably won't know total until tomorrow morning!

By the way, Bonnie is partially after Bonnie Raitt (my husbands favorite female singer).


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## momofthree (Apr 9, 2011)

I love Bonnie Raitt! So, what male singers do you guys like?


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I'm so old my fondest memories are of Cat Stevens before he got odd. LOL


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## momofthree (Apr 9, 2011)

Cat would be a funny name for a dog!!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I'm going to be playing around with names for weeks! Oh, no!
Moon Shadow was one of Cat Stevens songs. Bonnies registered name is her kennel name then Marmalade Skies. Moon Shadow might work for a guy. They're both celestial, both M and then S. Moon shadow is dark. I like it at this moment, but not for a call name.


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## Anntig (Jun 9, 2010)

you could always name him 'moon' in a different language, in denmark it's Manen. oh and by the way Congrats very exciting for you.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Hey, that's an interesting idea.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

What about Charlie? Like Bonnie Prince Charlie.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

Or call name Steven.


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## MamaTiff (Sep 23, 2011)

Very excited for you, and I can't wait to see this pup! I can imagine your excitement


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

Congrats on a new puppy!

Here is a list of lunar deities on Wikipedia that you might like to consider for call name ideas. Lunar deity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Moon Shadow is great. We name our litters after specific artist's song. Has to be someone I love. One entire litter was named after Cat Stevens songs. Murphy in Germany is "Arreau/'s Morning Has Broken". We must be around the same age.


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## zyrcona (Jan 9, 2011)

For the people here who breed: please do give your litters themes when you name them! It's much more fun when studying pedigrees if you can see that someone has been clever or imaginative.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

We have a Beatles litter, a Frank Sinatra litter, a Michael Jackson litter, a Cat Stevens litter and this last crew were our Whitney Houston...We've been trying to honour those artist''s who have passed away the year the pups were born if it was someone whose music I enjoyed. Cayenne, the little lady we kept last year is Arreau's I Did It My Way. I enjoy themes too.


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> We must be around the same age.


It's fun watchin' all u kids play in this forum.


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## PoodlePowerBC (Feb 25, 2011)

Congrats ... so exciting!! Russell was supposed to be Steven (after Steven Tyler), but hubby vetoed it .... so he is named after a Canadian comedian. Russell Peters  But I sooo love Steven!


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

zyrcona said:


> For the people here who breed: please do give your litters themes when you name them! It's much more fun when studying pedigrees if you can see that someone has been clever or imaginative.


So long as the owner can (if they want) come up with the actual name, I like a theme to work with. It makes things fun and challenges the creativity. I have to admit I don't like it when the breeder is the one who assigns the actual registered name of the puppy. I'll be seeing it on show entries for years, so I wanna name my own pup! Perfectly fine for the breeder to specify it has to be [kennel name] [candy theme (or starts with a certain letter, or whatever)].

My recently deceased borzoi came with the requirement that her name be from the book of Genesis. Who would've thought I would've found a cool name like "Flaming Sword" in there? But I did! The other pups in the litter had some great names, too.

--Q


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Tiara's Dark of the Moon

Finley is Scottish


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## PoodleMomAnew (Dec 22, 2010)

How about Ringo? Just kidding, or maybe not. Trying to think of bands back in that era. Otis as in (Redding), Stevie as in (Wonder), Wilson as in (Pickett), Booker as in (T and the MGs)... I'm thinking black because he will be a black pup, right? Then there's always Dylan as in Bob Dylan.


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## Rayah-QualitySPs (Aug 31, 2010)

:shakehands:


outwest said:


> I wasn't going to say anything, but I am too excited and wanted to share with someone.
> 
> I have been waiting and waiting until Bonnie was civilized. Then I was waiting for the exact right combo of dogs from her breeder. In July I will be bringing home a new black boy (MAYbe girl).  Sire is an AKC Champion from a wellknown breeder here in SoCal, dam is one of Bonnie's breeders GRCH girls.
> 
> ...


Dear Outwest;
I am very happy that you will be getting a new puppy. There is nothing like puppy breathe!
If you do not want to tell people who the sire is you should feel comfortable on this forum telling others that right now you would prefer them to mind their own business at this time. If the health testing is complete it is your business what you buy.
I think alot of the criticisms you faced with Bonnie were quite ignorant.
Anyway I wish you joy with your new boy.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> We have a Beatles litter, a Frank Sinatra litter, a Michael Jackson litter, a Cat Stevens litter and this last crew were our Whitney Houston...We've been trying to honour those artist''s who have passed away the year the pups were born if it was someone whose music I enjoyed. Cayenne, the little lady we kept last year is Arreau's I Did It My Way. I enjoy themes too.


i know you are canadian, and i love the country ... but PLEASE don't name a litter after celine dion. she is my single most disliked musician on the planet. 

when i was a teen, i had a cat: rhiannon and a dog, sara. i used to really like fleetwood mac.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

LOL!! She is my favourite! But no plans for a Celine litter...yet!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

faerie said:


> i know you are canadian, and i love the country ... but PLEASE don't name a litter after celine dion. she is my single most disliked musician on the planet.


What, Fae?! U wouldn't be up for Arreau's Power of Love??? Arreau's My Heart Will Go On???  lol 

Power & Heart!


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

Oh I'm so excited for you OW!!!! Agghh!! Can't wait for more news on the litter and puppy pictures.  Congratulations to you and Bonnie both!!! I think Bonnie will love a poodle sibling, although it may take her a bit to get over not being the only poodle child anymore lol! I think Trev is going to be the same way whenever I can't fight MPS anymore...he's such a mama's boy!!


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

Countryboy said:


> What, Fae?! U wouldn't be up for Arreau's Power of Love??? Arreau's My Heart Will Go On???  lol
> 
> Power & Heart!


Yea Faerie?? Don't you like those? Thanks CB...good choices!

Arreau's A New Day Has Come...mmmm...like that too!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Name choosing is fun! I have nixed Moon Shadow. Mainly because I find out I need to use the letter R in the name due to naming conventions from the breeder.  Hmmm....

______Rhyme and Reason 
______Ramblin' Rose

I will think of something!

Talked to breeder again. 4 girls, 3 boys, all inky black, not a white hair on them. She said wait to choose sex. We may end up wanting a girl.  Mama is doing great, eating like a pig. Babies look good. I almost think another girl would be very nice and there would be advantages to that, too!

Easier to finish a black boy if we chose to do AKC, but girls are so sweet, too. She invited us to go see them.  I might wait a couple weeks until their eyes are open because it is a bit of a long haul for us!


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## Clicker (Apr 28, 2012)

outwest said:


> MPS is multiple poodle syndrome. It strikes the best of us.
> 
> Wycliffe was a kennel in the 50's/60's/early 70's that was used by nearly everyone so that many of the black standard poodles worldwide today are genetically 50% or more from the Wycliffe kennel dogs. That kennel practiced serious inbreeding (siblings, mother to son, you name it), which produced beautiful dogs with lovely temperaments, but also caused a genetic bottle neck that people have attributed to some of the disease issues standard poodles can have. Not much was known about genetic diversity, or people didn't think it important. Some breeders are trying very hard to find dogs without much Wycliffe influence in them so that standard poodles become more genetically diverse. Some people feel it isn't critical to do that and most of the winning black AKC poodles today remain around 50% Wycliffe.


Thanks for explaining that. I hope I get MPS someday!! :lol:


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

Ramblin' Rose or Ramblin' Rufus......Bonnie & Rosie or Bonnie & Rufus

Rowley is a Scottish male name, too.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Rosie is CUTE!


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

So exciting!


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

if you get a boy name it rhaitt. or however. like bonnie rhaitt.


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## momofthree (Apr 9, 2011)

*I love her, too!*

Aren't you a singer, Cherie? I sing, and consider Celine a singer's singer  .




ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> LOL!! She is my favourite! But no plans for a Celine litter...yet!


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## Sookster (Apr 11, 2011)

*That MPS is something else...*

SO excited for you Outwest! And mildly jealous  Although, I may end up having my own MPS surprise for everyone later this year. I have Nova, the bf has Juniper (who lives with me) so that's two [large] dogs already. Then there is always the guide dog puppy, makes 3. Then I usually I have a client dog, which makes 4. So I'm trying to decide if I can manage another pet dog right now, but I'm leaning toward it. I've contacted a couple of breeders already, so it's kind of in the works. 

But anyway enough of my rambling. CONGRATULATIONS on your to-be new addition. New puppies are so exciting. I can't wait to follow your updates, photos (a new 52 weeks?!?!).


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Not sure about that 52 weeks. It was hard to do! We are decided where puppy will sleep. My mother (who lives with us) wants her/him in her room.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

Ahhh... another person's room to sleep in. That would make it a lot easier to manage if you have a boy dog and Bonnnie is in heat. And your mom get a dog! Is she as excited as you are? I love MPS!


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

momofthree said:


> Aren't you a singer, Cherie? I sing, and consider Celine a singer's singer  .


one of my sisters is a professional musician and voice teacher and considers celine dion a goat throater (aka bleater)

one year my eldest sister (who loves celine dion) gave my parents a copy of a celine dion xmas cd and was making everyone endure it (4 siblings & spouses/kids and only my eldest sister and parents like her) so as soon as they weren't paying attention we swapped out southpark christmas music stating we'd rather listen to cartman sing. :aetsch:

needless to say no more celine dion played at family functions.


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## petitpie (Nov 16, 2011)

How about Bonnie & Laddie!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Just got litter announcement with pics of sire and dam. COI is 2.18%.  We tentatively have dibs on a female now. I think it would be easier for us overall. Not sure I could deal with a howling male if we don't spay Bonnie.


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Going to visit puppies on Saturday!  I will take loads of pictures. Breeder says their eyes are starting to open up. They are only a little over two weeks old, but I am looking forward to seeing those little black blobs.  Breeder also said these a good sized pups and will be far bigger than Bonnie is (she's 22 inches tall - looks exactly the same size as silver Sookie). 

We are pretty sure we are getting a female after all. We filled out a prelim. contract for a girl instead of a boy. Her registered name will be Tiara Razzle Dazzle (has to have an R in it). I know, I know, a little silly, but my mother picked it. She thinks it sounds poodly/sparkly. She is showing a lot of interest in this being her special pup, wanting it to sleep in her room, wanting to walk the puppy while I walk Bonnie and my husband walks Echo. She prefers a girl. She has to be here with the puppy when I work. Since I am asking her to help raise one more puppy when Bonnie is finally very civilized, I want her to be as excited as I am.  

Now- call name? Daisy/Dazy? Keep thinking...


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## momofthree (Apr 9, 2011)

Exciting stuff!! Can't wait to see pics! 

Oh, and I think Daisy is very cute  .


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

I think Daisy is cute, too, but Daisy is cute. That's the problem. I think I would like something more swanky. Should it be Razzledazzle or Razzle Dazzle? Hmmm... I kind of like the one word version.


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## Dog catcher (May 27, 2012)

outwest said:


> I think Daisy is cute, too, but Daisy is cute. That's the problem. I think I would like something more swanky. Should it be Razzledazzle or Razzle Dazzle? Hmmm... I kind of like the one word version.


My grandmothers' name was Daisy.

The proper use of Razzledazzle for a name is the single word version. The shortened version Razz would be an excellent call name.

You can trust me. I am an excellent namer of dogs.


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## peppersb (Jun 5, 2011)

I like Daisy. I like Razzledazzle. 

It could also be hypenated. Here's the definition from Merriam-Webster dictionary.

Definition of RAZZLE-DAZZLE

1. a state of confusion or hilarity 

2. a complex maneuver (as in sports) designed to confuse an opponent 

3. a confusing or colorful often gaudy action or display 

Origin of RAZZLE-DAZZLE

reduplication of dazzle
First Known Use: 1889
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Another call name would be Dazzle. Maybe you could get to know her a little before deciding? Use Daisy if she is sweet and gentle or Dazzle if she is sparkly and dazzling.

The names Bonnie and Daisy go well together

Can't wait to hear about your visit! Have fun!


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

Dog catcher said:


> You can trust me. I am an excellent namer of dogs.


LOL. Killer fang reminds me of the show poodle named Spike.  Daisy was my Great Grandmothers name (my mother's favorite Gma). I wonder if it is sacriligious to name a dog after a Grandma. :act-up:


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## outwest (May 1, 2011)

peppersb said:


> I like Daisy. I like Razzledazzle.
> 
> It could also be hypenated. Here's the definition from Merriam-Webster dictionary.
> 
> ...


Razzledazzle seem appropriate for a trickster poodle.


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