# Advice for senior dog nutrition



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Very useful - thanks! I plan on adapting some of the advice for my cats, one of whom has mild arthritis.


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## honda123 (May 29, 2014)

RN and a DVM responding.. That article borders on fraud.

This person says Vitamin E needs to be supplemented when Omega fats are added to a canine diet? 

_This person keeps referring, " the research says.... the studies say.... it has been found..."_

Where are the reference citations? -?- -?-

_This person claims, "Vitamin C, ascorbic acid, additives for a senior canine?"_

Senior dogs should have lower protein for a multitude of reasons. 

No wonder this "internet writer" does not have doctoral degree.


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## elem8886 (Sep 19, 2012)

Could you tell us what about this article is fraudulent?

I don't know about other sources of Omega-3's but fish oil can indeed cause a Vitamin E deficiency over time.

You're right, the author doesn't list the studies/research she references and unfortunately this is pretty normal on a blog these days. Perhaps a reader can contact the author for a list of references of use google to find reliable research if they are unaware of or unsure about the statements or claims being made.

What are you asking about the Vitamin C supplement?

I think the author makes a good point that you can't just lump all dogs from 7 years and up into the category of "Senior". Sure some older dogs may need lower protein but not all do and the author even states some reasons why that may not be the case for an individual dog. 

"Senior" seems to be a bit arbitrary too - 7 might be ancient for a Great Dane or a Wolfhound, but that is barely middle age for many small breeds. My Tika is 7 and I wouldn't classify her as a "senior" dog. As you are a vet could you tell us some of the indications that a dog would need a low protein diet?


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## Poodlebeguiled (May 27, 2013)

honda123 said:


> RN and a DVM responding.. That article borders on fraud.
> 
> This person says Vitamin E needs to be supplemented when Omega fats are added to a canine diet?
> 
> ...



I think her credentials are impressive. Better Dog Care, Better Dog Nutrition - Creating Healthy Lifestyles for Canines: About Sabine She has a stellar reputation and I have used her services personally. She made my Doberman, who was teetering on death live a much more comfortable life for about another year on account of her knowledge of nutrition and where it relates to the various illnesses and his illness in particular. The diet she prescribed plus meds worked together to make him function much better. I know of several people whose dogs she has helped.


I don't know about the vitamin C...it seems the jury is still out on that one...not much compelling research that I have come across yet anyhow. There's a lot of good stuff though, coming from holistic medicine and there may be some truth to this. It seems they're always discovering new things and it's good to keep up with the latest research and see what is being found out.

*Here ya go: *

DogAware.com Kidney Disease: Is a Low-Protein Diet Desirable or Necessary?


Very well respected and _known_ vet -- protein for dogs is well explained here:

Pet Food Mistake that Could Destroy Their Kidney and Liver


I have been reading some recent studies showing that dogs digest grains better than was formerly thought...that they evolved to digest them just fine. And there are nutritional benefits to some. I have only begun to take a look at this grain thing but it is interesting to me because evolution is interesting to me and how humans and dogs have a convergent evolution. So we influenced each other along the way and diet is probably one of those things where changes take place over time.

Another interesting partial article:

adaptation to digesting a starch rich diet.
Some of the reading listed on the bottom I've read. I particularly loved Coppingers' book. Good stuff.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v495/n7441/full/nature11837.html


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/starchy-diet-may-have-transformed-wolves-dogs



> The researchers determined the genetic makeup of groups of dogs and compared the results to those from wolves, concentrating on parts of the genetic instruction book that differ between the two species. As they had expected, the researchers uncovered differences in many genes relating to the brain. But the search also revealed lots of genes involved in starch digestion and metabolism, and in the use of fats. Dogs, the team found, have more copies than wolves do of the AMY2B gene, which produces an enzyme that breaks starch into easily digestible sugars.


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## Carolinek (Apr 2, 2014)

There is one citation, but it is old (1998) and obviously from research funded by Purina. The article may or may not have merit, but I agree, it is hard to tell because there is only one reference, which makes me uncomfortable. 

That said, I looked at Sabine's site a while ago because I home cook my dogs' food, and I had heard she was good. She does have credentials, although they do not equate to a PhD. From my very narrow American experience, I could not determine whether her "coursework in biology and chemistry" and "animal science certificate" would prepare her to properly analyze diets for dogs. It very well may, but I have no way to judge that. 

She does seem to have quite a following, and this is not the first time I have heard success stories about her recommendations, and it's wonderful that your dobie did well with her advice! A direct conversation with her may shed some light on some of these grayer areas. I can certainly be open to looking at what she has to offer.


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## honda123 (May 29, 2014)

Just to clarify, my husband is a DVM and I am a RN. We were both reading the forum and came upon this thread regarding a "nutritionist" that has a "certificate". Any foreign training in people and/or animal medicine means nothing in the USA unless you pass USA standards and nationalized testing. 
In addition, there is a English speaking evaluation and comprehensive test for foreign trained "Veterinarians." We have known of a few foreign trained "Veterinarians" that work as assistants because they can not articulate the English language. 

The article cites a "Purina seminar" that was probably held for Veterinarians. At these seminars, they provide usually a written booklet that the Vets bring back to the clinic for everyone else to read. But, any medical information cited in 1998? Geeez... There is a lot of misinformation on the internet and just because someone has a "following," doesn't make them an expert. Justin Bieber has millions of "internet followers."

Standards of care change annually for people and animals. There are board certified DVM or VMD nutritionists available. Usually, for no more $ than the General Practitioners, if you research those in your area. Thanks.


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