# Anyone else not trust groomers anymore?



## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

I do my own grooming now even I don't really know how to, I don't particularly like it, I suck at it, I don't have the energy for it, it takes forever and it stresses both me and Ginger out. 

I have no choice. I don't trust groomers anymore. Does anyone else have this problem?

I've seen so many horrible things and heard horrible things and I ask questions on professional grooming forums and I frequently hear things that I don't like.

"Dogs don't like being groomed because they're spoiled brats and I'm not going to let them "win"."

"I alpha roll and hand bite those dogs that give me trouble when I'm grooming because they're trying to dominate me and they need to learn who's the alpha dog. Cesar Millan is a dog god, I don't care what all those veterinary behaviorists and their research says. They're just jealous/stupid/don't know what they're talking about/think dogs are humans/etc.."

"I hold them down until they give up and stop fighting the grooming."

"I don't care if the dog is scared, I'm going to get this grooming done whether the dog likes it or not."

"A little spanking never hurt a dog."

"I grab the dog's ears/beard/etc. to get them to stand still."

And I've actually seen horrible things too when I used to work for a groomer.

YES, I am aware that grooming can be tough, especially when you get terrified dogs and dogs that owners never bothered to condition to being groomed and owners who don't brush in between groomings but that's no excuse to mistreat animals and now I don't trust any groomers. I KNOW there are still kind ones out there but the other groomers have spoiled my trust in any of you. I'm sorry.

So I'm stuck doing my own grooming.

Does anyone else no longer trust groomers?


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I love mine to bits........she groomed Jake for 14 years and now Sunny. Guess I lucked out! She is a Scottish Gem!


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## Lilah+Jasper (May 13, 2010)

I *love love love* my groomer. I trust her way more than I do my own feeble and woefully lacking attempts at grooming. My poodles love her and get happy to spend time with Jana. I really think that there are a lot of trustworthy and capable groomers - it just takes time to find the right one. There are a few bad apples in every profession so I wouldn't lump them all together as untrustworthy...


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## Onyx11 (Jan 8, 2012)

I love my groomer!!!! She has a spoo herself and takes such good care of all my dogs! My little poodle mix dislikes everyone but gets so excited to see her.


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

Well, when people talk they tend to talk about the negatives.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE my groomer. He's retired and I am so sad that I have to look for another one for my boy. He's always so kind and gentle. He scheduled extra time for the first few times I brought my pup in. He showed me how to do stuff (anal glands, nails, ears, fluff, FFT, etc.) "so that I could bond with my dog at home and save some money." Yes, that's his exact quote! He gave discounts to well-brushed dogs to encourage owners to brush their dogs at home regularly.

Has he ever given Nickel a bad haircut? Yes. Has he cut into his quick? Yes. BUT I can see a lot more GOOD in him than bad. And I'm pretty sure it was my boy who wasn't behaving when all those happened. 

I hope you will find someone that you can trust. I know it's hard. I screen groomers and doggie daycare more than I screen my own dentist and OBGYN.


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## Ginagbaby1 (Aug 1, 2011)

I also love Casper's groomer. He doesn't exactly love the grooming process but he loves going to see Barb and "the girls". We go to a small family run shop. The owner has 5 dogs herself, one of which is a beautiful red spoo. I think that there are great groomers out there who genuinely care/like dogs but it sometimes takes time to find the right one.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

msminnamouse said:


> I do my own grooming now even I don't really know how to, I don't particularly like it, I suck at it, I don't have the energy for it, it takes forever and it stresses both me and Ginger out.
> 
> I have no choice. I don't trust groomers anymore. Does anyone else have this problem?
> 
> ...


 All I can say is this: what grooming forums are you on?!? The one I am a member of (it's a very popular, busy one) is great; I've never seen anyone talk about the cr*p you mentioned as "good advice". Yes, there are bad groomers out there, just like there are bad doctors, dentists, and lawyers. MOST honestly do care for dogs though and would never use any abusive method. I'm sorry that you've had bad experiences and don't trust us anymore. All I can say is that if you do decide to try again, do lots and lots of thorough research. Ask around at vets to see if they are treating a lot of any particular groomer's clients for injuries, (and avoid those groomers! An occasional injury is going to happen, but they shouldn't be a regular occurrence.) ask your dog-owning friends for recommendations, check with local pet stores, etc. Also, relax when you drop your baby off! If you are confident, he will be confident and will therefore behave much better. 

Also do keep in mind that just because you see a dog (or someone else tells you that they saw) screaming and struggling doesn't mean the groomer has done anything wrong. Ask any good groomer and they will tell you that some dogs scream if you so much as look at them, and forget trying to trim their feet or faces! It's like trying to wrastle an alligator. Someone holding onto a dog's beard is a normal occurrence...however, they shouldn't be trying to subdue a dog by holding a beard or ears...I (and most other groomers I know of) hold a piece of beard (or the muzzle, if they do not have facial hair) gently to steady the dog and keep them from whipping their head around suddenly when they hear or see something. It's much safer for the dog that way. Basically, what I'm trying to say is, non-groomers often do not understand what they see in a grooming salon. I'm not saying you haven't seen abuse...I know quite well that it exists, I've worked with people that were just like you described. But I refuse to believe that I'm the only kind groomer out there...in fact, I know I'm not.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Wow, _really_?

That's like the person that commented on my video of shaving Vienna's face and saying I'm cruel and she's terrified.

Ignorance blows my mind. Thread fail.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

I'd be curious what kind of groomer(s) would make the kinds of comments you have listed, or even advocate them????? Hmm, in the almost 30 years of poodle ownership, never had that problem. My current groomer, however, used to work with the guy who groom's Oprah's dogs in Chicago, I think his name is Billy. Anyway, I took Jake to them. I remember one time when he was a pup and I stood outside across the street before I picked him up, and watched. Through the window they were the kindest, sweetest and most gentle groomers. I mentioned it when I came in and they DID comment, that they have "seen it all" and if they were not groomers and had to take their dog to a groomer knowing what they do now, they definitely WOULD check references and be sure first since they, too, alluded to some questionable things.....but I have never encountered anything like referred to above.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I just fired a client like that. It's very difficult to groom a dog who's owner has very obvious trust issues. What a relief for me that she went elsewhere.


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## Ladywolfe (Jan 11, 2012)

Well, I have, also, had some true bad experiences. There is not a lot of choice, where I live, in selection of a groomer. I like to groom my dogs, myself, but I certainly can only do basic maintenance, and will shortly be taking my toy poodle in for a professional job (it is time!!!)

Regardless of the last bad experience --which has now caused my silver to grow black hair where she had a pretty good cut, but also has turned into an absolute maniac for any grooming I try to do with her (I am not sure exactly what happened, she was fine before that incident)------------

I do not distrust groomers. I know that there are good ones out there.

I just wish I could figure out someone to give me a bit of instruction. * I admire groomers tremendously *because, I cannot scissor shape for anything, and I have no idea how they manage to groom my little monster girl. Even shaving her face is a total ordeal for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

Fluffyspoos said:


> Wow, _really_?
> 
> That's like the person that commented on my video of shaving Vienna's face and saying I'm cruel and she's terrified.
> 
> Ignorance blows my mind. Thread fail.


. I feel the same way...I'm just glad that I don't have to try to groom th op's dog. Not to be mean or anything, but people like her are always exhausting to deal with. I don't know where she saw or heard the stuff she's talking about, but I think she needs to understand that there ARE plenty of good, kind groomers out there and that lumping all of us into one pot is insulting and unfair. It would be like saying that ALL Caucasians have blonde hair....not true and insulting to those of us who are brunettes.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

mom24doggies said:


> . I feel the same way...I'm just glad that I don't have to try to groom th op's dog. Not to be mean or anything, but people like her are always exhausting to deal with. I don't know where she saw or heard the stuff she's talking about, but I think she needs to understand that there ARE plenty of good, kind groomers out there and that lumping all of us into one pot is insulting and unfair. It would be like saying that ALL Caucasians have blonde hair....not true and insulting to those of us who are brunettes.


I don't think she realizes how many people on this forum are groomers, or how many people she's insulted by her threads. The doodle bashing, the border collie bashing, groomer bashing..


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

Well, first I wanted to respond to the topic at hand and say that Jäger has NEVER seen a professional groomer in his life. He was groomed by the breeder a few times and all the rest has been done by me (self taught and with lots of help from the great groomers on this forum). 

I would like to find a groomer I trust to do a good job. It's not that I am worried about abuse, I know I could find a KIND groomer, but most of the poodles I see in my area have AWFUL haircuts, truly awful. There are only a few groomers in my area and I always ask the owners of the dogs with bad haircuts so I know who is giving them those cuts. 

So I just keep doing it myself, although I know at some point I need to find someone as a back for times I am unable to groom him myself. 

Second, I don't know the OP, but I think it's rather unkind to bash her like that right out in the open. I am sure she did not realize how many wonderful dog groomers we have on this forum and if she did, I'm sure she would not have wanted to offend anyone on purpose. Just my two cents, but I hate to see things get too negative here...


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I've been offended by her threads one too many times to not say something this time.


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## 3dogs (Nov 3, 2010)

As a groomer I can understand the OP point of view. Grooming is UNREGULATED so that means that any one of you can pick up a pair of clippers & shears & get a business license & start whacking away at peoples dogs. That is scary & no wonder owners have a bad time of it. But then again one has to research their groomer & if you aren't going to bother with that then you get what you get. I have 2 not so good groomers in my town. 1 just got evicted again from her spot. I honestly have no idea why people went to her but for the fact that she was "cheap" & "nice". But I have had clients come to me that walked into her shop & turned around & walked out due to the uncleanliness, fleas etc... all over the place. The other groomer in town used to do an o.k. job but I have been seeing more of her clients lately & they are horrible jobs (my 6yo could do that job). So, either somebody else in her shop is grooming the dogs & she is saying she does it or she is just kinda done with grooming & doesn't care what leaves her shop.

I am slightly offended because if one searches one can find good groomers. People like my grooming because I do a good job, 1 on 1 grooming, quick turn around, compete, show & continue to educate myself. Why people don't like me because I am more expensive than any groomer in our town, & I often am booked 1 week out in the Winter & 3 weeks come Spring & people don't want to bother with the wait or scheduling. Pure laziness for the most part is why many people go to the wrong groomer. I have 2 groomers in opposite directions that I recommend to people but they don't want to drive 20 minutes. Go figure! Complain about everything but don't want to put the effort in.

I will look in Ohio for you BUT you have to do research into the groomers as well. Do they show, compete, go to lectures, further educate themselves etc... I think there is a grooming contest in Ohio every year so I will look to see who competes & where they are located for you.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

3dogs said:


> As a groomer I can understand the OP point of view. Grooming is UNREGULATED so that means that any one of you can pick up a pair of clippers & shears & get a business license & start whacking away at peoples dogs. That is scary & no wonder owners have a bad time of it. But then again one has to research their groomer & if you aren't going to bother with that then you get what you get. I have 2 not so good groomers in my town. 1 just got evicted again from her spot. I honestly have no idea why people went to her but for the fact that she was "cheap" & "nice". But I have had clients come to me that walked into her shop & turned around & walked out due to the uncleanliness, fleas etc... all over the place. The other groomer in town used to do an o.k. job but I have been seeing more of her clients lately & they are horrible jobs (my 6yo could do that job). So, either somebody else in her shop is grooming the dogs & she is saying she does it or she is just kinda done with grooming & doesn't care what leaves her shop.
> 
> I am slightly offended because if one searches one can find good groomers. People like my grooming because I do a good job, 1 on 1 grooming, quick turn around, compete, show & continue to educate myself. Why people don't like me because I am more expensive than any groomer in our town, & I often am booked 1 week out in the Winter & 3 weeks come Spring & people don't want to bother with the wait or scheduling. Pure laziness for the most part is why many people go to the wrong groomer. I have 2 groomers in opposite directions that I recommend to people but they don't want to drive 20 minutes. Go figure! Complain about everything but don't want to put the effort in.
> 
> I will look in Ohio for you BUT you have to do research into the groomers as well. Do they show, compete, go to lectures, further educate themselves etc... I think there is a grooming contest in Ohio every year so I will look to see who competes & where they are located for you.


. I certainly understand her point of view, but like I said, lumping all of us into one pot because of a few bad experiences is unfair. 

And I don't feel anyone is bashing her....most of us (at least me) are simply trying to point out that her attitude makes her difficult to deal with as a customer and is also insulting to some people. Not to mention the fact that she seems to have gotten only one side of the story.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

It's a blanket statement...and I think we've all established on this forum that those never fly with a mixed bunch of people hahaha...if she had worded it more like "I've had nothing but trouble with them...what are your experiences" I don't think it would have been received VERY differently

I've had bad experiences with groomers...one tried calling the cops on me because I refused to pay her for doing NOTHING...she didn't even bathe Elphie...-.-
but I'd never say they're all bad, I'm friends with quite a few groomers (That live way to far away for me to take my girls to them!!) and they would never treat a client like the examples given...

BUT to comment on the forcing the dog thing or dominance...I think because of BAD dog ownership groomers are sometimes thrown into situations that make it impossible to do any kind of groom (decent or otherwise) without some sort of force being implemented
If your dog was well behaved it would have a fine time at the groomer :]


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

I just wanted to say that im a member of the same grooming forums you are, and I've never seen commentary like that. I think your post is cruel and unfair to an entire profession, many of whome are on this board. You're gonna find things you wont lile on every industry-specific forum, whether its dental techs, elementary school teachers, hair dresses, or poodle people. Thanks for clumping every groomer on this forum with the few careless comments made by other people.


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## MamaTiff (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm just wondering what the point to this thread was. Did something just happen?
I have to say I am offended as well. I know you aren't directing this to me, or anyone else on here, but I feel like you are bashing my passion. I take my job very seriously, and I LOVE it. I spend most of my free time reading about grooming, learning about grooming, and grooming. My FREE time. Not work time. My life revolves around dogs and my job. The things you wrote 99.99999% of the time are not normal bahavior from a groomer. Yet there is that bad apple here and there ( I have worked with one, and have since quit because I DO NOT want any part of it) but for the most part it doesn't happen. I get peed on, pooped on, anal gland juice in my face, bit, scratched, you name it. I put so much effort into making my clients happy. I feel bad for the groomers you have had a bad experience with. I don't know the story but I can imagine they probably went above and beyond (I hope) to make you happy, and you are on here posting crap like that. OK I'm done.


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

Im glad I'm not the only one whose been offended by this user on multiple occasions. I know every forum has its troll, where is that block button?


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## lavillerose (Feb 16, 2011)

I agree, lumping us all into the category of untrustworthy is very unfair.

Grooming is, as 3Dogs, said, unregulated to a certain degree. We are given appropriate business licenses and in the US are subject to random, unannounced inspections by the Department of Agriculture and OSHA, however, these organizations are so busy regulating EVERYTHING else relating to animal care, husbandry, and food production that some small, private groomers never even see them. Corporate places get inspected much more often, because they're just that, big corporations.

*Minnamouse*, I have seen what happened on another forum, and I'm sorry you have decided we all must have the same idea, but those of us who have been in the business for a long time have seen plenty of good and bad when it comes to how we should handle dogs. 95% of the time, most dogs are relatively well behaved and the routine passes with no issue. Difficult dogs present difficult problems, and yes, sometimes for our own safety, we may have to get tough. There is a big, BIG difference between dogs that are frightened and dogs that don't like what you're doing and intend to do a person a serious injury. Smart groomers discontinue service and send them home, where yes, people can deal with their own grooming. I've been badly bitten enough times to learn that the money is not worth the possibility of me being disabled and not able to groom anymore at all. Enough times being 3 in all 15 years of my career.

That said, it doesn't mean we dominate, yell and don't care if they're scared. I condemn Milan's methods, except for the fact that I do believe dogs need to be treated "like dogs", meaning they simply need a leader to follow. In my shop, I'm the leader, and the dogs know that as soon as they walk in. I don't have to slam a dog to the floor to tell them that, they get it by my confident body language and the calm tone of my voice and the fact that their owners handed them over to me and left. Positive energy always wins.

Experience plays an enormous role. I personally wouldn't trust anyone with less than 5 years working in a shop to groom my dog, period. I'd prefer 10 years. I say this because in my first 5 years in a corporate shop, I saw a lot of very good and very bad things happen, and that has given me a lot of experiences to recall, and in some cases, never, ever see again.

There are good and bad eggs in any profession. No one gets into dog grooming profession because they want to abuse animals. All of us feel awful when something bad does happen. People who aren't sympathetic to the animal's emotions don't usually last very long. I've seen a few come and go myself.

But there are also owners who take the idea that we're abusive too far. I had one woman swear up, down and sideways that the HV dryer was horribly abusive, and her dog was terrified of it. Her dog was actually perfectly fine with it, except near the head, like virtually every other dog in the world. But she couldn't be swayed, and threatened to sic the Humane Society on us. Too bad the Humane Society also uses HV dryers when they groom, huh? They never turned up to investigate, so I'm guessing they had a talk with her, but she's probably grooming her own dog, still certain we're awful people for making her dog deal with something it doesn't like, but tolerated just fine. Gee, I didn't like cleaning my room as a kid, but my mom still made me do it. Why do dogs get babied more than people's own children?

*Fluffyspoos*, I've noticed in pretty much any YT vids about grooming, there's always a commenter or two who seem to think grooming of ANY kind at all is abusive, but most especially if it's poodley looking groom, as if the dog cares what it looks like. People like that are just plain uneducated.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

Maybe she saw me through the window grooming the psycho shih tzu today. People would think I was abusing this dog but I was doing everything I can for her safety.

I had that dog rigged up with a grooming loop, a loop around her belly, a "groomer's helper" type of loop around the original grooming loop, and another string tied around the grooming loop so she couldn't pull out of it... yeah, it looked crazy. This dog would try to throw herself off the table if she could. Hence all the rigging. All I did was grab her front paw. I didn't even grab it hard. It's like holding a dog's hand for the "shake" command. And this dog FLIPPED out. Twirling, rolling, thrashing, jumping. I tried several times to do her feet until I gave up. The owner wanted "poodle feet" on this dog, but I'm going to tell him to give this up. It's not worth it. It's all for vanity.

Perhaps some of the groomers the OP has been to did not know when to "call it quits" for the sake of safety. There are a few bad apples in every profession, but just doing simple research to see what experience a groomer has can tell you a lot about how they groom. Watch a groomer trying to groom a puppy. It ain't easy. They scream, freak out, flail around. Grooming isn't rocket science but it does take skill and an artistic eye.

msminnamouse, why not find a nice, kind groomer to groom Ginger? They ARE out there. Sometimes, you have to be willing to make appointments in advance or pay for it, as it may be a higher price, but the experience will be worth it. You also mentioned you are stressed out when you groom Ginger. When grooming your dog, it should be an enjoyable experience. A great bonding moment. I groom Leroy and I love it. I look forward to it and love the eye contact I get from him. He's so accommodating to me and it's actually relaxing for me to groom him because he is not like my client dogs. I reward his patience with lots of treats and praise. I've also gotten pretty good at grooming puppies who've never been to the groomers. They start out screaming like banshees and cowering, and by the end they are asleep on the table and I'm able to clean up their face with ease. 

Some groomers may get frustrated because they feel rushed, especially with a misbehaving dog. Try to book a time when it's a slow period so that the groomer can have more time to spend with your dog.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

I'd like to point out the irony in the thread list:

Below "Anyone else not trust groomers anymore?"

is "Delightful First Pro Grooming Experience"


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

Most dogs are spoiled brats. It doesn't mean that I will abuse them but sure..i'll call the dog a spoiled, rotten, brat.

Some owners are also just ignorant and know nothing about their own dog. I would rather those people not bring their dog to me to be honest. I have plenty of nice, lovely, sane clients that I adore..the crazy people can go to petsmart.


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## Carley's Mom (Oct 30, 2011)

I have been to 4 groomers in the pass 13 years, all were very nice and kind to my dogs! I knew that would be the case before taking them ... do your homework, it's not that hard. To say you don't trust anyone is so unfair to a large group of caring , doglovers. I love my shih tuz's groomer, however, she will not groom standard poodles. She said she loves the breed, but her shop is not set up for them and she don't want to do the lifting ect. So I learned to do Carley myself. This pass weekend I ran into a woman picking up her two standards from the Petsmart groomers. They came out happy as could be , but I got to tell you, Carley looked so much better! So I guess I will continue to do her myself.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

Aidan said:


> Most dogs are spoiled brats. It doesn't mean that I will abuse them but sure..i'll call the dog a spoiled, rotten, brat.
> 
> Some owners are also just ignorant and know nothing about their own dog. I would rather those people not bring their dog to me to be honest. I have plenty of nice, lovely, sane clients that I adore..the crazy people can go to petsmart.


Yeah, what's more abusive - a client bringing me an old extremely overweight chihuahua whose nails are so long, it's 2 inches long, and some INTERTWINED with the next nail, with bleeding nail beds... and when I try to clip the nails the dog tries to ferociously bite me because he's in pain. I try to use the muzzle as a last resort. Luckily I did not have to muzzle that dog. But there are people who think the muzzle is abusive. Letting a dog's nails grow until they bleed and are unable to walk is abuse.


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## Ladywolfe (Jan 11, 2012)

> I had that dog rigged up with a grooming loop, a loop around her belly, a "groomer's helper" type of loop around the original grooming loop, and another string tied around the grooming loop so she couldn't pull out of it... yeah, it looked crazy. This dog would try to throw herself off the table if she could. Hence all the rigging. All I did was grab her front paw. I didn't even grab it hard. It's like holding a dog's hand for the "shake" command. And this dog FLIPPED out. Twirling, rolling, thrashing, jumping. I tried several times to do her feet until I gave up.


This is EXACTLY how it is when I groom my toy poodle at home. And, I am relieved to hear that, in order to keep her from hurting herself, I do almost exactly the same thing to restrain her. I totally adore her, and she totally adores me. But, without some type of a restraint, she pulls so hard away from me that some harm could come to her. However, I have to admit, it is getting better all the time.

But, hey, I say if the OP doesn't trust groomers, she just doesn't. That is only her opinion, whether right or wrong.......doesn't matter, really.

Me, on the other hand, I think good groomers are absolute miracle workers!


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## msminnamouse (Nov 4, 2010)

Yeah, I'M the "troll" just because you choose to ignore what science and the real experts say and want to dominate dogs so much in order to feel important, and because I'm concerned about animal welfare. 
Those of you who are humane groomers and haven't subjected dogs in your care to what has been said can thank your other fellow groomers, like many posting here, for spoiling the trust of many pet owners for you.
And thank you, because of your posts here, for further reinforcing and validating my distrust of groomers.


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## tokipoke (Sep 3, 2011)

msminnamouse said:


> Yeah, I'M the "troll" just because you choose to ignore what science and the real experts say and want to dominate dogs so much in order to feel important, and because I'm concerned about animal welfare.
> Those of you who are humane groomers and haven't subjected dogs in your care to what has been said can thank your other fellow groomers, like many posting here, for spoiling the trust of many pet owners for you.
> And thank you, because of your posts here, for further reinforcing and validating my distrust of groomers.


I believe many of the groomers here are just trying to defend their passion. For many of us, this isn't just a "job." There are groomers out there who are burned out and may have lost touch with what is important in their profession. BTW, most of the "Cesar Milan" tactics don't work on the grooming dogs anyway. Something really bad must have happened to you for you to distrust ALL groomers so much. I hope you come around and try finding a groomer again.


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

*falls over backwards* I dominate dogs and disregard what experts say so I can feel important? Are you KIDDING ME? I know I'm breaking the rules here by feeding the troll, but msminnamouse you have a serious problem making an accusation like that not only against me but against the other groomers and members who posted with different points of view than yours. If this is how you treat people on a public forum who have gone out of their way to HELP you when you drop in with grooming questions or what have you, it is no surprise that your dog misbehaves during a procedure you've admitted to disliking. I agree with those who have said they are relieved that you are too mistrusting to burden us with your suspicions. Enjoy your amateur Mommy do's and the superiority you obviously feel in snubbing an entire profession AND those fantastic clients that we know by name and love like our own.


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## mom24doggies (Mar 28, 2011)

Say what now?!? I ignore what "science" and "experts" say and dominate dogs because I'm a groomer?! And to feel important? It sounds to me like you are accusing some of us here (not sure who) of abusing dogs when you haven't met us and haven't seen us work. I'm not following your logic....

Funkypuppy, you pretty much said it all. And I'm done here; the op obviously isn't going to listen and saying anything more will be a waste of my time. I know that I don't abuse dogs, and that's good enough for me. I don't need everyone out there to love me and my profession (which, by the way, I love and can't imagine doing anything else. Like others here have said, most of my free time is spent learning more about grooming and dogs OR grooming my own dogs.).


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## lavillerose (Feb 16, 2011)

Well, if that's the case and we're so entirely untrustworthy and abusive and terrible people in your eyes, feel free to stop asking us for our professional advice. Here and elsewhere. You're never going to find anyone to help you with that attitude.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

msminnamouse said:


> Yeah, I'M the "troll" just because you choose to ignore what science and the real experts say and want to dominate dogs so much in order to feel important, and because I'm concerned about animal welfare.
> Those of you who are humane groomers and haven't subjected dogs in your care to what has been said can thank your other fellow groomers, like many posting here, for spoiling the trust of many pet owners for you.
> And thank you, because of your posts here, for further reinforcing and validating my distrust of groomers.


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

Fluffyspoos said:


>


This, my spider-friend, is known by Ben&Jerry's and poodle people alike, as a Cluster-fluff.


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## JE-UK (Mar 10, 2010)

Wow. 

Never thought I'd see a trainwreck thread over grooming (then again, this is a poodle forum).

I have a great groomer; I love her, and my dog ADORES her. She's kind and gentle and generous with the biscuits. I get told off if she ever finds any mats, and she is quick to hand out homework. She's been grooming my dog since he was a 16 week old pup (he's 2 and a half now). If I ever had to find another groomer, I'd be very careful about who I trusted, but I wouldn't presume there aren't other good groomers out there.

Msminnamouse, have you actually HAD a bad experience with a groomer? I'd be wary of judging all groomers by a few bad ones.


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## Keithsomething (Oct 31, 2009)

Yay!!! Let the memes roll out!!


Hahahahaha can I ask which research lab has done all this science and study? XD so silly <3


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## Quossum (Mar 18, 2011)

A trainwreck thread...on the poodle board...over grooming?!?!?


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## MamaTiff (Sep 23, 2011)

I feel bad for your dog. Because of your insecurities she has to go through a grooming process that you despise, which she picks up on and it knows. And WE are the bad ones?


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Interesting opinions on this thread... What I'm seeing is that the OP has a genuine mistrust of an entire profession (which is unfortunate), but since this is only her opinion she has the right to express it. 

The other thing I'm noticing is that there isn't ONE comment that agrees with her completely - there are some who concede that there may be a bad groomer here or there, but all groomers should not be held accountable for the actions of a few.

My daughter is a professional groomer. I trust her unreservedly. I've seen her work. The two other women who work at Groomingdales are also wonderful, compassionate people who I would not hesitate to take any of my dogs to - except that I LOVE to tip my daughter so she gets my business!! 

So my answer to to the OP's original question is, "No, I do not have that problem. I trust lots of groomers just fine!"

I've had several reports on this thread (thank you to those who have brought it to my attention - I hadn't noticed it before now!) and I've been asked to close or remove the thread because it could cast a black eye onto the grooming profession. I would never want to see that happen because, as I said, some of my favorite people are groomers!!! 

What I have seen on this thread is a sincere outpouring of support for the good groomers out there (you all know who you are!!  ) I'm not going to close or remove the thread because IMO I would love people to come here and read all the POSITIVE comments made about groomers - sure the OP's original post isn't positive, but look what has come afterward!! 

I will say that if anyone comments here by trying to twist the meaning of what members are posting in order to provoke incendiary replies - that person will get a warning and will risk being banned.

If someone believes all groomers are evil, and they've stated that opinion and the majority hasn't agreed with it, they most likely never will. It will not end pretty to try to get people to agree by continually posting negative opinions (especially if those opinions have already been expressed and disagreed with)

So... play nice and carry on! 

I LOVE MY GROOMER​(of course, I gave birth to her, so maybe I'm a little biased!) :lol:​


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

FunkyPuppy said:


> Im glad I'm not the only one whose been offended by this user on multiple occasions. I know every forum has its troll, where is that block button?


I've never used the "ignore list" - and I really can't as a moderator, so I'm not sure exactly HOW it works (if it's like FB blocking so you don't see anything written by that person?) but if you go to your User Control Panel (the link is at the top left just under the logo) and on the left side of the page is your "settings and options". Click on the "Edit Ignore List" and add the people you'd like to ignore. Then let me know if it works!!! :lol:

Barb


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## Marcie (Aug 2, 2011)

I decided to groom Sasha myself. 

I have nothing against my groomer she always has done a fine job. In fact, I have recommended her to several people in the neighborhood. I did my research, and she seems to be very caring and competent. 

However, Sasha has a lot of trust issus and absolutely hates! to be held or put on her back. Every time I would hand her over to the groomer, no matter how many times I would ask, she would still try and hold Sasha on her back. Sasha's eyes would go wild and she would start flailing her legs about frantically. She would come home exhausted, throw up, and not eat or drink until the next day. I don't know if that was what upset her so much or if there was something else. I know the 4 hours over there took their toll. 

I thought the stress was worse on her than any haircut I could give her. 

I went out and got all the equipment, table, clippers, sissors, etc. and set up a place in the garage (it is heated and cooled). I now work on her a little bit every week. We go through a check list when on the table, nails (check), Ears (check), neat feet (check), clean up muzzle (check), clean up tail area (check), etc., although, I do brush her evey night while we are watching TV. It only takes me about 1/2 an hour with her on the table to make sure everything is cleaned up. The part that takes the longest is drying her. 

Sometimes during the week, we will just go to the garage, sit on the table, have a snack, get off and go back to the house. 

She has always been cooperative and easy to groom and I get that from every groomer I have ever taken her to. She stands still and will allow you to trim her feet without pulling, in fact she will hand you her front feet. I never could understand why it took 4 hours to groom her. I never took her there with overgrown or matted hair to comb out. 

If nothing else, grooming her myself has helped us to bond and become closer than ever.


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## Marcie (Aug 2, 2011)

Aidan said:


> Most dogs are spoiled brats. It doesn't mean that I will abuse them but sure..i'll call the dog a spoiled, rotten, brat.
> 
> Some owners are also just ignorant and know nothing about their own dog. I would rather those people not bring their dog to me to be honest. I have plenty of nice, lovely, sane clients that I adore..the crazy people can go to petsmart.


There are some good groomers at PetSmart as well. Just because it is a chain dosen't mean their groomers don't care or aren't any good. A groomer that loves animals is going to do a good and caring job no matter where he or she works and no matter how spoiled or misbehaved the animal is.


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## mdwcarolina (Dec 9, 2011)

Wow, interesting thread. Kudos to plumcrazy for keeping it cool. Ya know, all or most of us probably have experience on a variety of forums, and sometimes people just get a little, um, inflammatory?

I just want to commend all the great groomers out there, the one I found in North Carolina, Kristen Clyburn, among them. I could NEVER do what you all do. I thought about trying it when I decided I was going to be getting a spoo, and I bought and read books and read forums, but I am too much of a control freak to trust myself, if that makes sense. I KNOW when I can't do things sufficiently well to meet my own standards, and I would have to jump off a cliff if I screwed up and scared my dog due to my own lack of experience. Of course I will try to gradually learn more and get more confident, but I'm mostly talking about brushing and just general body handling and toenail-cutting here as the things I aspire to do well and confidently.

I have nothing but massive respect for those that have taught themselves after much research and learning to do their own poodle grooming. I can well understand how this is a wonderful experience for both the groomer-owner and the dog. And I know everybody has messed up from time to time, and I am proud of your courage and caring and am sure you've overcome the hurdles spectacularly. Me, I'm just too chicken, and that's ok too. We can be chickens about some things. Know thyself and all that!

I have "groomed" my own dogs for maintenance my whole life, but those were Rottweilers and similarly "easy" breeds. A poodle is a whole different animal compared to the low-maintenance breeds, obviously. Face shaving, jeez. That just takes a world-full of art, skill, confidence, dog-sense, all of it. I have a knack for getting cats, even ornery ones, to let me clip their toenails. My neighbors ask me to do it all the time. I'm really confident about it, and I guess the cats just buy my baloney. Probably came from having to clip the nailes of my newly-tamed macaw in past years, and boy-howdy, if that doesn't give you some respect for how to be careful yet confident, I dunno what will.

But I know that when I sense that I'm over my head, I'm over my head, and I will hunt and search and search some more, and drive however-far, to find someone I trust, and there is always someone out there.

And when it comes to this OP or any other, well, when anyone makes a blanket statement of "all" or "none" or "never" or "always" -- it's a warning for sure. Waving red banners in a pen-full of bulls, and I mean bulls in the best way as good friends  In this case, I think the bulls have behaved with kindness and compassion beyond any natural requirement! They mostly removed the pikes from their backs, returned them to sender, and said "so... I'm pretty sure you didn't mean to do that!"


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## flightsoffancy (Nov 9, 2011)

I have been watching this thread and trying to just take it in. With many mixed emotions I'm gonna dive in....

First to the OP: I am sorry your experiences have been unsatisfactory. I love my grooming community and know that the majority of us are kind, well educated people who love dogs!! As other members have mentioned, there are MANY different ways to find a great groomer. We are not all bad. However, it takes two! Do you know what you want and can you communicate it clearly? Is your dog in good condition and well behaved? Are you willing to pay for a great groomer? We are not cheap! You definitely get what you pay for! It also takes time to develop a relationship with your groomer and your groomer with your dog. Just like your best friend, it doesn't develop over night and your dog will respond better to being handled by the same groomer every time.

Personally, one of my jobs is at a Vet and I get some of the worst dogs out there. Most are forced there, requiring sedation because their owners failed them. They didn't offer obedience training. They didn't socialize. They didn't get educated on what that cute puppy needed as far as grooming, health, nutrition. It's frustrating for us too! We are not magicians. On good days I am able to groom some of the dogs that have required years of sedation, with out meds! But I risk my safety and career. Did you know that a single dog bite to a groomers hand can destroy our career? 

So to all of the dog owners out there: Thank you to all the great clients who understand it! To the ones who don't I plead...before you discredit our profession, are you doing all you can as dog owners? It Takes Two!


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## BigRedDog (Mar 2, 2011)

*Love your Groomer*

Having worked as a professional groomer with my own shop, and as a grooming instructor at a large school in Los Angeles..I feel I must jump into the fray.

First of all, grooming is hard, physically demanding and not that high paying compared to other fields a person might choose. Given this information, logically...what type of person would pick working with animals as a field? *
Animal Lovers of Course!]

In my years of teaching and working with animals this is the one common denominator.

Again..logically..how far will a person get with an animal they are making frightened and misreating? Do you really think you can get the dog groomed quickly and well that way?....No! There is no room for such things in the field.

Stop the false accusiations of an entire industry and go and meet the groomers. Spend the day, you could volunteer to brush and bathe for a week..you will quickly see that point of view has no merit.:amen:*


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## Yaddaluvpoodles (Mar 20, 2010)

Years ago I had injured my shoulder in a bad fall, I took Vic to a Petsmart to be groomed. 
I wasn't allowed to stay (dogs often act up when their owners are present)
I was asked to sign a consent allowing her to be muzzled (if they had any reasons to muzzle Vic, they needed to call me to come and get her.. but I was grateful to know in advance that they muzzled dogs).
There was one other thing that bothered me.. been too many years and I don't remember now.

Anyway, I went to pick her up at the designated time, asked how everything went. They told me that she was one of the nicest dogs they'd ever groomed "she even lifts her feet up and hands them to you (all true)", then told me that's "where the trouble started". I thought.. "uhoh". Because Vic was so easy to groom, they had let someone who had never groom before "train" on her. She had the worst clipper burn I've ever seen on her face/feet/tail/belly and especially surrounding her eyes. The skin was already inflamed and weepy. Petsmart gave me a full and sincere apology, they also made things right by giving me free coupons for vet visits until Vic's face was totally healed. BUT... quite honestly, it would have to be very dire circumstances before I trusted a poodle to a groomer I don't personally know again.


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## Marcie (Aug 2, 2011)

BigRedDog said:


> Having worked as a professional groomer with my own shop, and as a grooming instructor at a large school in Los Angeles..I feel I must jump into the fray.
> 
> First of all, grooming is hard, physically demanding and not that high paying compared to other fields a person might choose. Given this information, logically...what type of person would pick working with animals as a field? *
> Animal Lovers of Course!]
> ...


*

I have. I volunteer at a rescue and go every sunday to bathe and groom poodles and poodle want to be dogs. It is rewarding. Some of the dogs will fight you about certain things, and sometime you just can't get it done without stressing the dog too much. Most at the rescue are just happy someone is showing any interest in them at all. I wouldn't want to do this for a living, it is hard back breaking work. Very rewarding but very physical. I actually enjoy doing it once a week or I wouldn't do it at all. To see one of the poodles you groomed get adopted just makes you week. I agree, go out volunteer, I will only help the community and your soul.*


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## katbrat (May 8, 2011)

I am very thankfull for the groomer I use. I am thankfull that Lexi's breeder started her very young getting used to the grooing process. We pull up at the groomer's and Lexi gets excited becasue she likes to be there. I don't mind the time she spends there, because it is not all grooming, she gets to take a break and play as well. I do think that many problems that happen between groomers and dogs are many of the things that flightsoffancy talked about. You simply can't take a dog you has never been exposed or worked with, plop them off at the groomers and expect to have anything positive happen. I had a groomer one time nick our toy and I did keep using them. It was an accident, they made it right and took care of my vet bills. They didn't try to hide anything and were very sorry it happened. I never saw anything up until that point or after that would give me cause for concern. I guess I am lucky to have never run across a bad groomer and for that the dogs I have had and myself are thankfull.


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## minipoodlelover (Jul 25, 2011)

*It takes two*

I'm a pet owner, not a groomer, but I want to echo flightsoffancy's "it takes two" to make the grooming experience successful.

I've posted here about my recent grooming issues with a new puppy. My groomer was accustomed to my older, well-behaved mini, and Angie behaved badly at her first groom. She was mouthy to the point of actually biting (without breaking skin) the groomer's hand. I didn't particularly like some of the things my groomer said to me or the way she said them, but never did I think she was exaggerating or making anything up. Even if I went to another groomer, I thought Angie would still act up, and that was unacceptable to me.

Thanks to this forum, I learned the things *I* could do to improve the situation - and I did them. Thankfully they worked, and the next groom went very well.

My groomer was extremely appreciative and told me most clients don't take the time to work with their dogs. 

Pet owners must take at least some responsibility for the grooming behavior of their pets. A groomer is not a miracle worker, especially if the owner doesn't get her dog groomed frequently. I certainly can understand how frustrating and even dangerous it must be for groomers to deal with poorly behaved dogs.


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## liljaker (Aug 6, 2011)

Comment regarding poodle owners, grooming and new puppies. I was at a local pet shop with Sunny over the weekend, as part of Socialization 101 (smile), and a woman came in and was talking to the groomer and said she had some questions. The woman said she "had a 7 month old doodle dog, about 40 lbs and she wanted to know when she should start grooming it" --- I caught the facial expression of the groomer as she was "explaining" to the woman that this is something that should be started when they are pups to get them accustomed to the process, etc. She was shocked and sort of laughed saying "...well, we figured it was about time to get her to a groomer since we can't see her face and everyone keeps asking what kind of dog it is.." as if that was funny. I could tell the groomer was hoping she would not bring the dog in, because it would be so difficult at that age, and breed never having been to a groomer. She saw Sunny and said "he is beautiful" and I said yes, he has been accustomed to being groomed for about as long as he has been walking (kidding) -- and I also said it is very important so that they are comfortable being groomed. She just shrugged her shoulders and walked out.


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## oceanrose (Sep 10, 2011)

I have met good groomers, bad groomers, amazing groomers and indifferent groomers. I've worked in a shop where the groomer should have been banned, and I've worked with groomers who were artists. The sentiments above go for dog trainers, vets, school teachers, doctors... 

It comes down to the responsibility of the owner to make sure that anyone who you leave your dog with is responsible, kind, and won't cause pain. It's also your responsibility to make sure that your dog is accustomed to handling, confident with someone else being in control, and relaxed in the situation. 

I personally am learning to do my own grooming since I enjoy it, and both where I am currently at, and where I am planning on moving in several months happen to be away from cities where groomers are. Grooming myself is simply another thing to do with my puppy. But that doesn't mean with a little research on my part that I couldn't find a great groomer and develop a wonderful relationship with them.


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

I want to know what kind of person comes on a poodle forum to insult groomers and then gets absolutely shocked when people get upset/disagree. It's a poodle forum..many poodle owners are groomers.

I've seen other posts from the OP on other grooming forums. She always drops in asking a bunch of questions and then makes a habit of arguing with the professionals who give her solid advice. That's why my comment was short and I tried to keep it simple. I didn't want to waste any more time on this person than I already have.

This is also the same person who organized a group buy for Les Pooch brushes... and some people spent MONTHS waiting on theirs. I think everyone eventually got it..but it took quite a long time and she rarely replied to the people who trusted her with their money when they asked questions.


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## PoodlePowerBC (Feb 25, 2011)

Well I love my groomer!!! She has groomed my dogs since she got out of grooming school. My dogs have also been groomed since they started walking  But there is a groomer in the village that I find offensive, the one that told me that all brown poodles are hyper and crazy  but I don't have to take my dog to her so no harm done!


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## FunkyPuppy (Jan 27, 2011)

I was waiting for someone else who has experienced the OP's sunshine personality elsewhere to sound off. Thank you aidan!


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

The OP is all over the internet. I'm not sure exactly how she finds the time to annoy so many people..but she's made a hobby out of it. Just type in her username into google and a million things will pop up. It's no wonder she rarely replies to her own posts..she probably has 20 of them going on through various forums at the same time.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Ilu Aidan

After investigating like Aidan said, I found out that she is VERY hateful on pretty much every website she's on. Holy cow! Who lives like that?!


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## Countryboy (May 16, 2011)

It would be good if this didn't turn into a "let's bash the OP" thread. Some of the recent posts are reportable...


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Countryboy said:


> It would be good if this didn't turn into a "let's bash the OP" thread. Some of the recent posts are reportable...


Hardly bashing. A little researching on google shows that she really IS just an internet troll on DOZENS of forums making accusations and just ridiculous topics to star a stir. Really easy to find this considering she uses the same username everywhere.


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## Aidan (Mar 4, 2009)

The information is out there you just have to look for it. She has pages and pages going on about how much she hates certain people. She also registers on forums like the Cesar Millan web board just to insult the people who do like Cesar Millan! 

It's fine if you don't like something..but don't go to a place where the majority disagree with you just to start crap. 

Also, I'm sure Casey Anthony started out as a forum troll. See what happens when you let these people persevere.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

If we could keep this post on topic - whether or not we trust groomers anymore - that would be terrific!

It appears from the posts that most people trust many groomers while some owners need lots of education and some groomers should find another career - but for the most part GROOMERS ROCK!!!

No more discussion of the OP's activites outside the Poodle Forum (or on this forum either - if it doesn't have anything to do with the specific topic), please.

Thanks much!

Barb


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## littlebluetrike (Dec 19, 2011)

Not all groomers are bad, make sure you visit with your groomer and or assistant before you take your dog in a new situation. Tell them what your animals likes or dislikes are when being handled and if there are any health issues to be concerned of. And you can usually see with the professionals if they do care for your animals care and how much they mean to you. If they are cold and outstandish, I honestly wouldn't want my standard poodle to be there all day, especially how much it costs to get them groomed.


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