# Possible IBD dog - Help! Anyone found a food that works?



## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

I have no immediate experience of this, and it sounds as if you and your vet are exploring all avenues, but I have always found the dogaware site very good for nutritional and digestive issues: DogAware.com Health: Digestive Disorders in Dogs

Hope you find something that helps very soon.


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## Lea (Oct 20, 2012)

Simsek, this maybe a silly question, but have you had him allergy tested? Could it be an environmental reaction to something Odin is allergic to? 

I feel your pain and frustration. We loved a sick mini schnauzer who we rescued from a mill. I send you luck and Murphy sends Odin a big kiss. Take care.


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## julietcr1 (Nov 10, 2012)

I had a similar experience with a dalmatian 18 years ago, I sympathize with you. It took us about 18 months to find a food that would work with him so it takes time. Did you try feeding him lamb and brown rice senior food? This is what worked for us and we could not give him anything else. Lamb usually does great for sensitive stomach and senior dog food contains less fat and less protein so are easier to digest. You can also try a fish and sweet potato senior food, it did not worked for us but it could for you. Maybe do some allergy test like Lea suggested? Good luck, I know it's not fun.


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## CharismaticMillie (Jun 16, 2010)

I am so sorry you are going through this! Other than continuing to keep Addison's in the back of your mind due to the low cortisol response, have you considered doing a diet trial with a novel carbohydrate and novel protein?


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## WillyBilly (Jan 8, 2013)

Simsek, you haven't mentioned being tested for worms. Hook worms to be specific. Search google for hook worm. They cause such symptoms. These seem difficult to get a positive test for. However, Panacur takes care of this parasite. I'm treating my dog now as a precaution. My dog has had a battery of tests so far. Waiting to hear the results regarding the condition of his Pancreas. Just a thought. 


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## Simsek (May 5, 2012)

We have tried all kinds of novel proteins: venison, duck, lamb, pork, fish --and while he doesn't seem to immediately blow up with any of them, they haven't broken the cycle, either.

I just got off the phone with the vet and she'd like us to try the ZD to see if it helps him get back to baseline. If is does, then we can go from there to try to figure out how to keep him there more naturally. I just want him to feel well for more than a couple weeks at a time. Has anyone here tried the ZD and had it work for them?


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## caroline429 (Mar 5, 2012)

I've had two Rottweilers with IBD. My first one was the worst and it took me quite a while to get it under control but I did eventually. I did try z/d for her but it didn't agree with her at all. I think the problem was that it was too high in fat. Dogs with IBD need a very low-fat diet. Foods like z/d are really made for dogs with food allergies who have itchy skin but whose guts are okay. If you are going to try z/d, I'd introduce it very slowly. I gave my Rottie about 6 pieces mixed in with her regular meal and she drooled and vomited after eating it. I'm not saying it won't work for your dog, just start with a little tiny bit and increase very, very slowly if it seems your dog tolerates it. 

Both my Rottie girls responded best to a very simple, cooked, homemade diet. I went through trying the probiotics, enzymes, fiber supplements, etc and found they made the dogs worse. I stuck to two novel foods, one protein and one carb to start. For whatever reason, pasta seemed to work well for both of them. One ate beef and was good on beef her whole life. The other one tended to do well on a protein source for about a year and then would develop a sensitivity to it and I had to change it. Like you, if I was feeding a naturally fatty meat, I would usually first brown in a frying pan or the oven and then I'd boil the heck out of it in a pot of water to get rid of as much fat as possible.

Although fiber is often recommended for dogs with gut problems, it doesn't always work to firm the stool. Neither of my Rotties did well with much fiber in their diets. 

Since the foods in my dogs' diets were so very limited, a lot of their nutrients had to be supplied by vitamin and mineral supplements. I was pretty technical about it, I had spreadsheets with all their nutrient requirements calculated and all the nutrients from the foods entered so I could see where the diet was lacking and supplement accordingly. I swear the poor dogs ate more pills and powders than real food! I must say they didn't seem to mind and actually did very well on these diets. They both lived longer than normal lifespans for Rotties.

My second Rottie was on tylosin every day for her IBD for probably the last 5 years of her life. I found it better than metronidazole and it's quite safe for long-term use. It's horrifically expensive if you buy capsules from the vet but I used to buy the water-soluble stuff you can get online (or your vet can order it) and then I put it in capsules myself. It is incredibly bitter so even though it was water-soluble, it had to be put in capsules for her to eat it. I used to just drop a capsule in her meal and she never noticed it. It has quite a large margin of safety so it is possible to measure it out yourself. I think my Rottie got 1/16 of a tsp per day, don't remember exactly off hand. Although it's always preferable not to have a dog on long-term medication, there comes a point where quality of life has to be looked at. She never suffered any side effects from the tylosin and it helped her IBD.

Neither dog ever had what I'd call "perfect" poops, but I finally realized that if the poops had some kind of form, even if they were softer than normal, and only happened twice a day, that was a huge, huge improvement!

You have to be incredibly vigilant with an IBD dog to make sure they do not deviate from the foods in their diet at all! Even a little taste of something else is enough to cause a flareup. Any treats must be made out of the same thing as is in their meals. I did find, however, that my dogs were okay with some fruits and vegetables, so that's what I used as treats.

I realize I've thrown a lot of random information at you here. If you've got questions about any of it, please ask for clarification.


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## Simsek (May 5, 2012)

WillyBilly - That's a good idea, but he was tested, and panacured, regularly during his first year without it changing the pattern of illness, so it doesn't look as though this is the root of his issues.

Caroline429 - I appreciate your sharing your experience with me, and I will keep that in mind. The vet had us start a trial of the zd yesterday, and I was surprised to see how much he liked it. It made me sad to give it to him since I've been working so hard to provide him a better diet than the ingredients in the ZD, but at this point we are trying to find a way to get him to a baseline that we can work with, and so far the limited and cooked diets aren't working. I wish they would - I've been cooking my butt off for him this year (not to mention spending WAY more to feed him than I had ever imagined) -- but he still winds up with GI bleeding, no appetite, etc. It's breaking my heart. If you don't mind my asking, what other proteins did you have success with besides beef?

So anyway, day one of the 1/2 cooked beef, 1/2 ZD went well. Or, at least it seems to have gone well. He liked the taste of it (yuck!) and scarfed down his dinner for a change. It stayed down well, and his stool this morning was firmer than yesterday morning's, too. That's not to say that it was perfect, but yesterday it was half liquid and today mostly solid with a little mucous. Just the fact that it wasn't worse would count as improvement because usually once he starts to get the runs he deteriorates rapidly, but this actually went in the other direction a bit. Again, he was enthusiastic for breakfast and has had good energy this morning, too.

If he tolerates the ZD and he's able to get stable on it, the vet wants us to keep him on it for 6 weeks and then begin a gradual re-introduction to real foods, slowly and one at a time to see if we can isolate things that irritate him and keep him stable as much as possible. I wish there was a magic bullet to help him, or at least some definitive tests that would tell us what to do to make him better.


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## caroline429 (Mar 5, 2012)

I truly understand exactly how you're feeling. :sad: For me, it got to a point where the consistency of the dog's poop could make or break my day. After so many years of minutely inspecting dog poop for signs of an imminent flareup, I was christened the "Queen of Poop" on a few of the forums I was on at the time. LOL :embarrassed:

My first Rottie was on many different protein sources. I didn't get her until she was two years old and she'd always been fed a chicken-based diet. When I got her, I spent another two years switching from one kibble to the next in a vain attempt to stop the vomiting and diarrhea. This was over 15 years ago and kibble back then was usually chicken-based or lamb if you had a dog with allergies. I was lucky because it gave me more scope to find novel ingredients for her. Today, with most kibbles having everything but the kitchen sink in them, it is much, much harder to find novel ingredients.

I remember I started her off on a 6-week elimination diet of turkey and potatoes. She did well on that so I added some pasta. The pasta and potatoes stayed the same for her whole life but for the protein, I remember using beef, white fish, emu, bison, egg, soy, and pork. There may have been a few others that I've forgotten. As I mentioned, she'd do well on a novel protein for around a year or so and then develop a sensitivity to it, so I'd have to switch to another one. Unfortunately, there is no magic bullet when it comes to diets for IBD. The only constant I ever found was that it had to be quite low in fat. Each dog is so different in what they can tolerate, it's impossible to recommend anything specific.

It was late last night when I posted so I didn't get into what I'm currently going through with my mpoo, Cali. She's been having bouts of loose stool off and on since she was about 7 months (she's now 16 months) along with some vomiting. She definitely has allergies because she is also very itchy. When the loose stool started, I thought "no problem", I've been through this before, I can fix this. I've managed to come up with more than one diet that helps the diarrhea only to have it send her into overdrive with the scratching. 

I am beyond frustrated and was at the vet's yesterday with her for yet another ear infection. Cali is going to be spayed soon so needed bloodwork so I asked for a full chem panel instead of the more modified one they usually do before surgery. I wanted her electrolyte ratio and baseline cortisol looked at. Like you, I have Addison's in the back of my mind. I know it's not as common in mini's as it is in standards, but I've been reading about it appearing more and more in mini's. I suspect it is probably a combo of allergies and hormones bothering Cali but I need to rule out Addison's for my own peace of mind.

I also asked the vet for some hypoallergenic kibble. I told her I wanted the one lowest in fat which turned out to be Purina H/A. I gave Cali half a dozen pieces in her dinner last night. She's not scratching any more than usual today (she usually reacts very quickly if allergic to something) and poops were okay. Since she's not as sick as your dog, I can move a little slower with the switch. 

I'm not sure if she'll even eat kibble by itself. I gave her a piece and she treated it like it was a toy. She ran off with it, threw it around the living room for a while, sniffed at it a lot and finally did eat it but I hate to think what her reaction will be when she's faced with a bowl of this stuff and no real food. She always hated her puppy kibble and never finished her meals. I was reluctant to formulate a homemade puppy diet so kept her on kibble until she was 10 months old. I've had her on an adult homemade diet for about 6 months trying to sort her out and she loves it but I'm at my wit's end with the combo of the diarrhea and the itching so am willing to try anything at this point.

I know what you mean about feeling sad feeding a prescription diet. I told myself not to read the package but, of course, I did.:struggle: I am a huge proponent of homemade diets for dogs and they are my first choice but I am also realistic. I am willing to feed whatever I need to to make Cali more comfortable and feel absolutely no guilt about trying this option too. A dog's quality of life is the most important thing and I've always felt that the best diet for a dog is the one that works best for that particular dog.


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