# Would you go back to your breeder?



## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

I'm keeping my options open. I would go back to my breeder. She's very nice and is breeding good quality dogs. I'm not always on the same page with her, and communication can be off, but I'm slowly figuring her out. We are in contact still, and I see her at shows. I've seen the results from a couple of her breedings and they are very consistent and nice. Her litters are consistent enough to have a good number of show prospects in each. (4 that I know of in the litter Jasper came from) She usually breeds to Dawin or Bar None dogs and I very much like the look they are achieving. That said.. who knows if there will be a cream female for show that can be placed with me. We've spoken already, but it's early in the game still. So... I am a researching machine .


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

I would go back to Charly's(Curonian Spit), Vaka's(Huffish) and Polar(Lapponias) breeder any time. They are breeders who are very interested in Poodles and know a lot of things and seem to be always willing to help. I would also recommend them to anyone I know and are looking for spoos.

Dima's breeder I would not buy from again.


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## schnauzerpoodle (Apr 21, 2010)

I may not go back to Nickel's breeder but that's only because I want a toy next time. I would definitely go back to him if I wanted a miniature. Or if he has small minis, I would get one from him.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

Yes and no.

Yes: beautiful dogs, wonderful temperments, health tested, shown, feeds raw, and Karen is just an all around awesome person.

No: I want my next dog to have a natural tail and she docks to the AKC breed standard (which I do not blame her for at all ) though Vegas has a long dock and I LOVE it.


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## SnorPuddel (Jul 8, 2010)

I would and am going back to my breeder Ormar ...next year I will hopefully get a white poodle boy from her spectaular Cole  If I wanted a poodle and Ora had none available, I know she would direct me to a breeder that she trusted, but I am looking forward to getting a cousin of Baldr's as Cole is his uncle.


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## AgilityIG (Feb 8, 2009)

I would (and will) go back to Karin in a heartbeat. She does health testing and temperament testing on her litters and every dog I have heard about/met of her breeding have all had wonderful temperaments and been healthy. She does not dock tails or remove dew claws and I really like that.


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## plumcrazy (Sep 11, 2009)

Yes... in a heartbeat... I won't be looking for another poodle for quite some time, but when I do - Arreau will be who I go to.


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## Cdnjennga (Jul 30, 2009)

Yes, definitely, I have had a great experience with Darcy's breeder. Having said that it would depend on who she was breeding and what she was expecting from the litter. So if I were to be looking for another dog (not likely unless it's the far, far future), I would also be contacting other breeders, in case their dogs/ breedings better met my current needs and wants.


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## TeddyTails (Apr 19, 2010)

I would and did go back to my breeder. I had a pup from my breeder and he ended up getting sick (at a very young age) and had to be put to sleep (still breaks my heart). I know that what happened to my pup was just a genetic fluke. But, she made good with me and she honestly cares for all of her dogs. I have been waiting to see if there is a cream female (I think I may be in line before you Rockporters LOL!) as my previous SPOO was a cream.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

I would buy another pup from Winnow in a heartbeat, and likely will get another black, but female, from her in the not too distant future.


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

_No and no. I will not go back to Taffy's or Billy's breeder again. 

We weren't very well educated when we bought our first poodles. We have been well educated since joining poodle forum. 

Billy's and Grace's breeder produced Chantel in her next litter and she is a gem! But, she does not test, she does not show, and when I had a bad experience that involved Billy, her only concern was for her business and herself and I was extremely offended by that. I expect someone I buy a puppy from to be there for advice and support when I need it. Also, Chantel was produced from a back-to-back breeding. We took her because she had everything we were looking for in temperament and conformation and felt she would be a good addition to our pack. When we shaved her face after taking her to the beach in Rhodes Island, we were horrified to find her infested with fleas; which she promptly shared with all of our other dogs and then they shared with our cats. What a mess!! We had to take all of our pets out of our homes to flea bomb them and then treat them all with flea prevention. We will not be going back there again.

Taffy's breeder does not test or show either and we found out later that she breeds back-to-back as well. We know better now and will stay away from anything like that again. I do have to say, though, that even though the breeder and her husband were getting quite elderly, their home was very clean, their dogs were clean and all were groomed. She is inspected twice a year by their local agency and by AKC.

We are looking to breed up and improve our program and will be looking for puppies in the future from breeders who put titles on their dogs (actually work with them), and health and temperament test them.

_


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## Vibrant (Dec 7, 2009)

Absolutely yes!
Diane (Cantope) does health testing, puts performance and conformation titles on her dogs and temperament tests all her litters. She keeps in touch with her puppy buyers, and offers a lifetime of support. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another puppy from her.
Susan and Deb (Bibelot and Tolka) are equally vigilant with health testing, and their puppies are known for their trainability. In my opinion, you cannot find a better breeder for silvers!


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

i'd love a spoo with an undocked tail. Right now I have 4 dogs and so I'm at a cease for about 10 years (my cairns are 5 years old). 

That said, I won't go back to my breeder, I'll find someone who does not dock tails.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Susan and Deb (Bibelot and Tolka) are equally vigilant with health testing, and their puppies are known for their trainability. In my opinion, you cannot find a better breeder for silvers![/QUOTE]

Susan is a very nice person and a quality breeder through and through. 
Deb Drake is a sweetie and a wonderful person and dog owner. She loves her dogs and is a very hard worker. I know her personaly and have a very high opinion of her and the care she gives her dogs. She is one of my favorites in poodles.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

That said, I won't go back to my breeder, I'll find someone who does not dock tails.[/QUOTE]

Faerie:
There is so much controversy about tail docking. I have twice bred a litter and didnt dock tails. One of these litters produced a male (Baldr) which Snorpoo purchased from me. Later on I was told that IF I do not dock tails I will never be able to win in the ring or will have to spend a considerable amount of money on an otherwise easily attainable Can. Ch. if my dog will have a natural tail. I was NOT eager to continue docking my pups's tails but unfortunately until such time judges look past a long natural tail and award the puppies for their quality and merit UNFORTUNATELY I will dock my pups' tails.. As I said I DO NOT want to do this but I must if I am to continue showing my dogs. I WISH that we go European style and not have to dock our dogs' tails. I feel it is a barbaric procedure. 
There are very few dogs compeeting in Canada from reputable and ethical breeders who sport a natural tail.. so I would rather go to the RIGHT breeder that docks their tails than to a BYB or an ill reputed one that does not.
Honestly I do not know of any reputable breeder in Canada that does not do the docking. I hope that the petition for docking goes through and that we are made to leave our dogs' tails intact. I would be the first one to sign this petition against tail docking.


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## faerie (Mar 27, 2010)

i hear you on that. i've always been drawn to the shorter poodle tail until this forum when i've seen such gorgeous undocked tails that i went ... wow. lovely.

and by the time i get another spoo ... undocked may be more of a norm.


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

well my breeder seemed very nice but ginger has that fear thing that cost me big bucks for a trainer so I don't know - but someone on here recently got a pup from her -Leatherstocking in NY - and her pup seems fine but from different parents so I dunno. I paid 750 5 years ago don't know what - is it spoopirit? - she paid for Taffy? not sure lol


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## Rockporters (Jan 14, 2010)

TeddyTails said:


> I have been waiting to see if there is a cream female (I think I may be in line before you Rockporters LOL!) as my previous SPOO was a cream.


I'm sure you are . The cream bitch she's going to breed is just absolutely beautiful! 

If she breeds this fall it will be a bit early for me but I would consider a pup if everything was right. Hoping for spring though! I'll be at my limit with the second Standard for a while, so I've got my wishlist lined up LOL.


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

I don't think docking is barbaric or anything, I would just prefer my next standard to have a natural tail, though I wouldn't pass up on an amazing docked white female puppy.


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## TeddyTails (Apr 19, 2010)

The cream female (Kiri) is actually Teddy's sister (same litter). She is stunning (just like Teddy was) and I was tempted to pick her when I looked at them originally, but Teddy stole my heart, and he picked me. I guess we were meant to be, even for our short time. She has an amazing personality and her coloring.... she is perfect! LOL!


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## Raena (Sep 20, 2009)

No, i will not go back to Zu's breeder.


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## Poodlelvr (Mar 13, 2010)

Yes, I would go back to Beau and Belle's breeder--Poco A Poco Toy Poodles in NJ. Gayle does all the health testing and believe it or not, each puppy came with a written statment that she would take the puppy back at any time for any reason and give a full refund. That is real commitment to the dogs she breeds. Interestingly, Belle has an undocked tail. Gayle told me she had always hated doing and she had just stopped.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Fluffyspoos said:


> I don't think docking is barbaric or anything,
> 
> Docking is extremely painful to puppies and if one is not a breeder they would not know how they scream in pain and agony when their tails are docked with NO anaesthetic. There is also risk of infection, so the entire docking process is very uncomfortable for me and has been for years.
> My vet detests doing this procedure and feels it is so unnecessary and so do I. But judges feel differently as well as the majority of breeders although, we do have the option for showing with a natural tail in Canada.
> ...


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## *tina* (Jan 3, 2010)

I would go back to my breeder, if I was looking for a black, blue or brown puppy. I would probably insist on a young puppy, instead of an older one as we have had some issues getting Captain housetrained and used to our kids. Otherwise, she does health and temperament testing, and almost all of the dogs she uses for breeding stock are CH or performance dogs. 

However, we're looking for a white, cream or apricot female next. So, we will be looking elsewhere. I know, I shouldn't have my heart set on a color, but I do.


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## PaddleAddict (Feb 9, 2010)

I would go back to my breeder (Clarion) in a heart beat. He dogs are stunning, she health tests, shows and has a guarantee. My mini's temperament is simply amazing, he is just so steady and smart and willing ... he is very special and I feel lucky to have a poodle from Clarion.


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## Tina (May 9, 2010)

Yes most diffently go back to my breeder for another one of her pups. She breeds good quality show mini poodles. Whether they are for the show ring or competition for a groomer or just simply pets. Thumbs up on that one


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

whitepoodles said:


> Fluffyspoos said:
> 
> 
> > I will be the first to stop docking my puppies.
> ...


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## Chagall's mom (Jan 9, 2010)

I will _absolutely _go back to Chagall's breeder (Cabryn) for another mini someday. I actually dream about it!!


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

Pamela said:


> well my breeder seemed very nice but ginger has that fear thing that cost me big bucks for a trainer so I don't know - but someone on here recently got a pup from her -Leatherstocking in NY - and her pup seems fine but from different parents so I dunno. I paid 750 5 years ago don't know what - is it spoopirit? - she paid for Taffy? not sure lol


_We paid $850 for her with full registration. We also had Ivy, who did not work out conformationally, but had a lovely temperament, loved everyone and there is Gorky who is on this forum who is actually a full brother to Ivy. 

Taffy has the best temperament I could ask for. Ivy's was good with no fear and I know Gorky's temperament is good as well. I can't imagine why Ginger ended up with such fear issues either. It very well could be in her parents. 

Taffy will startle at something that she is not accustomed to (sound or sight) but will go right over to check it out so she is not fearful.

We will not go back for the reasons I originally posted._


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## flyingduster (Sep 6, 2009)

I didn't get Paris from her breeder, but in saying that having since found who her breeder is, it is possible I would go back to her. Unfortunately there are no AWESOME breeders in NZ of spoos, so if I go and find what I reeeeally really want in my next dog, I have to look at importing something which is a HUGE cost that I can't see being able to afford for a long time yet. So in that case, yes it is possible I'd go to Paris' breeder for another spoo, as while she's not 'perfect' by my standards (hah, who is!?), she's certainly better than many in NZ and I already have a rapport with her too...


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## KalaMama (Nov 20, 2009)

Well, while Kala's breeders are very nice and have only had the 1 litter. They were ignorant about health testing and when asked said the vet said since she wasn't a show dog it wasn't necessary. Now, that sounds like a line, but honestly I think the vet really told them that. They are very nice, but my next Spoo I want to be show quality.


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## bluespoomommy (Feb 25, 2010)

Yes definitely would go back to mine. He also grooms mochi so have built a good relationship with him. Choices are very limited in Hong Kong. He is the only reputable poodle breeder i know of here. But if it came down to it he would help me import any poodle of choice too from overseas.


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## jak (Aug 15, 2009)

I might go back so Saffy's breeder. There are a few things that 'irk' me about what they do, but all in all, I like some of their dogs, and if I were to ever get one from them, it would totally depend on the dogs being bred... but as FD said, the standards I expect from a breeder are blimmin hard to find in one, and to tell the truth, one of the only breeders that I have found that has met those, and surpassed them has been Ormar


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

[and to tell the truth, one of the only breeders that I have found that has met those, and surpassed them has been Ormar [/QUOTE]


Thank you so much Jak... This is the highest compliment one can pay me as a breeder. 
Love the way you care for your dogs, and feel about the betterment of the breed. I also noted from all your posts how much value and importance you put on both, health and temperament. 
Again thank you for this wonderful comment about Ormar.


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## Trillium (Sep 1, 2009)

It goes without saying that I would go back to Arreau. We already plan to keep one of Betty Jo's future puppies. One day in the future I may possibly get another puppy from another breeder but I would co-own it with Arreau. She is so much fun to work with. My doggy future certainly involves Arreau who is a good friend and a great breeder. 

I am also thrilled to death with Quincy and would certainly consider another of her beautiful puppies.


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

spoospirit said:


> _We paid $850 for her with full registration. We also had Ivy, who did not work out conformationally, but had a lovely temperament, loved everyone and there is Gorky who is on this forum who is actually a full brother to Ivy.
> 
> Taffy has the best temperament I could ask for. Ivy's was good with no fear and I know Gorky's temperament is good as well. I can't imagine why Ginger ended up with such fear issues either. It very well could be in her parents.
> 
> ...


yes I think it might be Crackerjack that the temperament came from since I spoke to a lady that breeded her dog with Crackerjack and some of the pups had that issue . also the bitch from another farm that was ginger's mom seemd very fearful when I met her and incidentally, I had to insist to meet her - they werent prepared for that. Glad Taffy is good temperment - ginger is fine now but still has a little fear - but she is my heart dog! they used to show - g inger's father Crakerjack was a show dog - guess they are getting too old to bother and I didn't know abotu testing or anything like that when I bought ginger - learned a lot from this forum.

I didn't realize that you had posted before me lol


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## Pamela (Sep 9, 2008)

Trillium said:


> It goes without saying that I would go back to Arreau. We already plan to keep one of Betty Jo's future puppies. One day in the future I may possibly get another puppy from another breeder but I would co-own it with Arreau. She is so much fun to work with. My doggy future certainly involves Arreau who is a good friend and a great breeder.
> 
> I am also thrilled to death with Quincy and would certainly consider another of her beautiful puppies.


I love your dogs! their color is magnificent!


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## Poodle Lover (Mar 24, 2008)

Both Rome and Brandy came from rescue/private adoption situation. Both are most definitely back yard bred. For my next spoo (and that's not for a long, long time) the breeder I go with depends on what I am looking for. If I want a white one and to stay local, I will probably go with Cabernet, for black one I would go with Grandeur (love, love, love her dogs) for silver.....no clue at this time, unless Grandeur will breed for that color. She currently has (or had in june) a gorgeous 11 months old silver female that didn't enjoy the show, so she was willing to part with her. Ahhh, if only I didn't have three dogs already and had a spare $2,500.


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Sure, I would go back. Gloria is a wonderful dog lover all together AND she has nothing but bettering the breed on her agenda.  She does boocoos of testing and shows her dogs in many different arenas. I must say, Suri is my love truely. this is a dog that has stole my heart. 

I have 3 breeders that I LOVE their representation of the poodle all together. (and it fits the color etc that I am looking for - I have a great deal of respect for many, and a couple others on here, just not the spoo I am looking for) 

My future dog is with Ormar, period. I have thought long and hard and it will still be a while longer but I want my white from her. I could get a white here in the US, but I have spoken to enough that just did not fit what I wanted.

Also when I was looking for breeders not only for me but for my girlfriend I had to connect with the person. I wanted to respect their breeding practices and wanted them to trust me with one of their puppies. I found that in both the mentioned breeders, and both had lots of questions.....I LOVE THAT!! I would rather get the third degree then someone easily say sure let's do it.


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

i would not go back to jessie's breeder. i think she has beautiful dogs - there are, ironically, more than a few in my immediate area - but she does no health testing, no showing, and she is not a discriminate breeder (as far as we know). i love my jessie, she is my heart, but i know her imperfections. i don't think any breeder achieves perfection, but i would want a pup from a breeder who was more dedicated to this wonderful breed. the health testing alone is mandatory just for peace of mind.

i think it was spoospirit who said she knows so much more since being part of this forum - i couldn't agree more. even though there have been times of discord amongst members, i believe everyone who's here has their heart in the right place when it comes to the love of this breed.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

[ also the bitch from another farm that was ginger's mom seemd very fearful when I met her and incidentally, I had to insist to meet her - they werent prepared for that. Glad Taffy is good temperment - ginger is fine now but still has a little fear - 

Pamela: The first sign of a "questionable" breeder is their refusal to let you meet either the dam , sire or both of the litter. If a breeder does not encourage a prospective client to meet at least the mother of the pups take it as a red flag. They have something to hide.
I encourage my clients to not only meet my dogs but also if they are local to come and visit the puppies from birth. I just tell them to take a hot shower and come with a new change of clothes and leave shoes outside. They come to visit the puppies soon after they are born and twice per week thereafter. If they have children they bring them with them for socialization and fun puppy day/fix. It is fun for them and for sure for the puppies.
So if a breeder is reluctant to allow you to meet the dam or sire of the litter than there is something wrong there.....


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Also when I was looking for breeders not only for me but for my girlfriend I had to connect with the person. I wanted to respect their breeding practices and wanted them to trust me with one of their puppies. I found that in both the mentioned breeders, and both had lots of questions.....I LOVE THAT!! I would rather get the third degree then someone easily say sure let's do it.[/QUOTE]

Olie: And.. I totally agree with this aproach to doing one's homework. I never get offended if someone does not wish to purchase their puppy from me, and I will gladly refer them to a breeder I honestly feel sees eye to eye with me in respect to breeding practices and overall ethics.
So many breeders do a "fast" sale and this is not a good practice. Also so many prospective clients do a "fast" purchase and later may regret their decision. I always encourage prospective clients to screen other breeders and see how they feel and then make up their mind and final decision. There are some very good breeders out there I myself would go and purchase a puppy from, but it is up to a client to do their research and as Olie says make that "connect" with the breeder of their choice. The most important thing is what the breeder can offer AFTER the sale is made and money exchanged hands. A client has to know that the breeder will be there for them in good and bad for the rest of the dog's natural life. Our puppies do not ask to be born, we as breeders put them on this earth and I believe that any reputable breeder will maintain that these puppies even after the sale is consumed are still and will always be responsible for this puppy until the end of its life.. this is why I do encourage all clients to stay in contact with me for as long as their dog is alive. I have also had the opportunity to develope wonderful friends as a result and enjoy them and their dogs.
Olie thanks for the nice comment. I am sure that your future dog will have a wonderful life with you.. You seem to be dedicated and very comitted to doing the right things.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

i think it was spoospirit who said she knows so much more since being part of this forum - i couldn't agree more. even though there have been times of discord amongst members, i believe everyone who's here has their heart in the right place when it comes to the love of this breed.[/QUOTE]

Jessy's Mom: I completely agree with your statement (above).
I have never been on a poodle forum before that is so concerned and passionate about the health and temperament in this breed and not so much who won and what they won with their dog.

My Best In Show win is to hear a client who owns a 14 years old dog they aquired from me telling me they are still going strong.. Now.. that is the Best In Show win I will always prefer over a conformation win.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

whitepoodles said:


> i think it was spoospirit who said she knows so much more since being part of this forum - i couldn't agree more. even though there have been times of discord amongst members, i believe everyone who's here has their heart in the right place when it comes to the love of this breed.


Jessy's Mom: I completely agree with your statement (above).
I have never been on a poodle forum before that is so concerned and passionate about the health and temperament in this breed and not so much who won and what they won with their dog.

My Best In Show win is to hear a client who owns a 14 years old dog they aquired from me telling me they are still going strong.. Now.. that is the Best In Show win I will always prefer over a conformation win.[/quote]

100% agreed Ora!!!!!


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## Jessie's Mom (Mar 23, 2010)

whitepoodles said:


> i
> My Best In Show win is to hear a client who owns a 14 years old dog they aquired from me telling me they are still going strong.. Now.. that is the Best In Show win I will always prefer over a conformation win.




yes!!!! that is what is truly important to us non-breeders!! we want to know that our furkid's breeders are so intent on eliminating, whenever possible, any life threatening disease out of their line. we love our pups - they are our life. jessie is my sanity (even though her still puppy ways could drive me crazy sometimes :loco: ). i want to be assured that her health was protected as much as possible before she was even conceived just because her breeder carefully chose who she bred her dogs to. i don't care if her coat was a little to grizzly or her tail was set too high or too low...those things will never kill her. genetic disorders can take her from me way before i could even think of it happening. 

so THANK YOU to all of you breeders that invest so much of your time and your heart into this wonderful breed. you deserve the recognition and the applause :clap2:


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## creativeparti (Mar 9, 2009)

i would not go back to todds breeder again... even tho he is a lovely heathy dog i am dissapointed with how he turned out.....


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

newpoodlemum said:


> i would not go back to todds breeder again... even tho he is a lovely heathy dog i am dissapointed with how he turned out.....


How did he turn out ?


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

ArreauStandardPoodle said:


> I would buy another pup from Winnow in a heartbeat, and likely will get another black, but female, from her in the not too distant future.


Thank you


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## creativeparti (Mar 9, 2009)

well hes a minature and hes only 13 inches at the sholder i would of liked him bigger his coat is terrible so soft his tail hair is all wrong its not even proper poodle hair. he has no chin and he is far to long in the body oh and his tail set is to low 

he is going to be my agility dog now and he is fab at it. heres some pics to show you what i mean 

 c no chin


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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

newpoodlemum said:


> well hes a minature and hes only 13 inches at the sholder i would of liked him bigger his coat is terrible so soft his tail hair is all wrong its not even proper poodle hair. he has no chin and he is far to long in the body oh and his tail set is to low
> 
> he is going to be my agility dog now and he is fab at it. heres some pics to show you what i mean
> 
> c no chin


How old is he ?


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## creativeparti (Mar 9, 2009)

he was born feb 09 so he will be 2 in feb coming


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## creativeparti (Mar 9, 2009)




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## Winnow (Jan 2, 2010)

newpoodlemum said:


> he was born feb 09 so he will be 2 in feb coming


so he is one and half, he is still in puppy coat I would give it more time.
Dima had a coat that was like a fluffy cloud when she was younger now its fine.


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## Vibrant (Dec 7, 2009)

[QUOTE Whitepoodles said: 
Deb Drake is a sweetie and a wonderful person and dog owner. She loves her dogs and is a very hard worker. I know her personaly and have a very high opinion of her and the care she gives her dogs. She is one of my favorites in poodles.[/QUOTE]

Ora, yes, Deb is all that you say. I see her on a regular basis, either training our dogs or working together on something to do with PCC. She's honest, hard working and generous, and I love spending time with her.


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## creativeparti (Mar 9, 2009)

Winnow said:


> so he is one and half, he is still in puppy coat I would give it more time.
> Dima had a coat that was like a fluffy cloud when she was younger now its fine.


how long till it completely turns in to adult coat??


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

i am dissapointed with how he turned out.....[/QUOTE]

Newpoodlemum: Are you disappointed with your boy's conformation or temperament?


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Sorry I posted my question re: Teddy before reading the latest posts on that thread. Disregard my question/post.
Sorry.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Newpoodlemum:
Since parti poodles are not elligible for AKC/CKC conformation than your boy was purchased as a pet. Even though he is not perfection and does not posess what a show quality dog does, he still is a wonderful dog that brings joy and love to your life . So regardless of what his coat, underjaw or anything else about him that does not fit the standard "bill" is, why would you care? He has lots more to offer in terms of temperament and health.. so enjoy your boy, faults and virtues MHO.
P.S. please note that I am not against Parti Poodles , I only mentioned that they are not elligible to participate in sanctioned conformation shows strictly due to the breed standard, nothing else.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Ora, yes, Deb is all that you say. I see her on a regular basis, either training our dogs or working together on something to do with PCC. She's honest, hard working and generous, and I love spending time with her.[/QUOTE]

Well said.. I dont know who you are cant figure "Vibrant" but as you can see we share the same opinion about this wonderful person.


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## creativeparti (Mar 9, 2009)

whitepoodles said:


> Newpoodlemum:
> Since parti poodles are not elligible for AKC/CKC conformation than your boy was purchased as a pet. Even though he is not perfection and does not posess what a show quality dog does, he still is a wonderful dog that brings joy and love to your life . So regardless of what his coat, underjaw or anything else about him that does not fit the standard "bill" is, why would you care? He has lots more to offer in terms of temperament and health.. so enjoy your boy, faults and virtues MHO.
> P.S. please note that I am not against Parti Poodles , I only mentioned that they are not elligible to participate in sanctioned conformation shows strictly due to the breed standard, nothing else.


hi ya.... im in the uk so i can show him but in the breed standard it says its highly undesirible... 

i have had him castrated anyways now.. 
im a dog groomer and i purchesed todd with the hopes to use him in dog grooming comps over here and because of all his faults i cannot really use him now which is dissapointing i payed alot for him and i was hopeing he would be nearly perfect its his coat texture that annoys me the most because everything else i can hide with coat. 

i love him to peices he is my baby and i wouldnt change his temprement for anything he is a super dog and as i said earlier he will be my agility dog now. im just put off from getting another poodle from my breeder because of those little things wrong with todd


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

im just put off from getting another poodle from my breeder because of those little things wrong with todd[/QUOTE]

Newpoodlemom: 
I now understand the reasons behind your comments. Did you tell your breeder you want to purchase this boy with the intention to do grooming competition with him? If so, she should of made sure that the dog she sold you does conform to the breed standard and not have more faults than virtues. I am sorry you were disappointed, I would be too and I do agree with you, no amount of grooming can hide very marked physical faults.
Consider this a lesson well learnt and enjoy your boy in other venues. I am sure that given your experience , once you again decide to purchase a puppy you will now what to look for and also make sure that it is of the quality you are looking for. Your boy seems to be perfection in the temperament deparment and this is a big plus


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## creativeparti (Mar 9, 2009)

yea she knew why i wanted him and mum and dad both have good coats thats why i went for him and also she does do heath testing ect.... 

it defently has taught me what to look for now and i want a white std now


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## 1Jurisdiva (May 4, 2010)

This thread is very educational. There are so many breeders out there, and it can be intimidating, and easy to make a mistake in choosing one. I imagine there is no higher compliment to a breeder than a return customer.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

it defently has taught me what to look for now and i want a white std now [/QUOTE]

You being in the UK have the opportunity to see wonderful very successful standard poodle breeders and you can acquire your white stand. from really very nice varied stock there. 
One that comes to mind is Michael Gadsby of Afterglow poodles. His dog, Ch. Afterglow The Big Tease is the sire of my girl Lola (the one who was recently bred to my boy Cole). Michael has beautiful standards. There are others who are on the same level such as Kertella (he is a breeder/judge) and others whose name just does not come to mind but are equally successful with thier poodles. From what I was told when I specialed my boy Knight in Europe is that getting the UK and Irish conformation championship is much harder than getting the title in other countries in Europe. UK has very nice standards, and I would give my right arm to be able to attend once in my lifetime the Crufts show. If you ever go to this show take videos and many photos and post on this forum. I am sure we would all like to see the beautiful dogs presented at this glorious event.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

whitepoodles said:


> it defently has taught me what to look for now and i want a white std now


You being in the UK have the opportunity to see wonderful very successful standard poodle breeders and you can acquire your white stand. from really very nice varied stock there. 
One that comes to mind is Michael Gadsby of Afterglow poodles. His dog, Ch. Afterglow The Big Tease is the sire of my girl Lola (the one who was recently bred to my boy Cole). Michael has beautiful standards. There are others who are on the same level such as Kertella (he is a breeder/judge) and others whose name just does not come to mind but are equally successful with thier poodles. From what I was told when I specialed my boy Knight in Europe is that getting the UK and Irish conformation championship is much harder than getting the title in other countries in Europe. UK has very nice standards, and I would give my right arm to be able to attend once in my lifetime the Crufts show. If you ever go to this show take videos and many photos and post on this forum. I am sure we would all like to see the beautiful dogs presented at this glorious event.[/QUOTE]

Crufts has a web site Ora, and you should be able to go there and see the breed, group and BIS judging like you can the Westminster show. I am with you. I would love to see it one day. I have had a hankering to watch it live since Susan Fraser's Bibelot's Tall Dark and Handsome got reserve BIS right after coming out of quarantine. Quite a testament to his guardian/caregiver, Marilyn Willis of Springett Poodles. I was about 9 and it has stuck with me since then how impressive that was.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

I have had a hankering to watch it live since Susan Fraser's Bibelot's Tall Dark and Handsome got reserve BIS right after coming out of quarantine. Quite a testament to his guardian/caregiver, Marilyn Willis of Springett Poodles. I was about 9 and it has stuck with me since then how impressive that was.[/QUOTE]

Susan's beautiful boy, Bibelot Tall Dark and Handsom was the great great grandsire of my foundation female, Marney , who died at 16 years old.
Tall Dark and Handsome figures prominently in numerous pedigrees internationally and Susan is still going strong in her beautiful breeding program together with Debra Drake ( a sweetie).
Yes I know I can view the Cruft's website, but it is so much fun to get close up photos of all the dogs from people who actually attend the show. I am envious you can go there if you want.. They have package deals from the U.S. way over $2,500.00 for that week.. I save this money for my dogs's show career.. Cant do both, hwell:


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## Fluffyspoos (Aug 11, 2009)

1Jurisdiva said:


> This thread is very educational. There are so many breeders out there, and it can be intimidating, and easy to make a mistake in choosing one. I imagine there is no higher compliment to a breeder than a return customer.


I personally don't regret going to Desert Reef at all,  I would recommend her to anyone looking for a standard, I just want my next one with a natural tail.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

whitepoodles said:


> I have had a hankering to watch it live since Susan Fraser's Bibelot's Tall Dark and Handsome got reserve BIS right after coming out of quarantine. Quite a testament to his guardian/caregiver, Marilyn Willis of Springett Poodles. I was about 9 and it has stuck with me since then how impressive that was.


Susan's beautiful boy, Bibelot Tall Dark and Handsom was the great great grandsire of my foundation female, Marney , who died at 16 years old.
Tall Dark and Handsome figures prominently in numerous pedigrees internationally and Susan is still going strong in her beautiful breeding program together with Debra Drake ( a sweetie).
Yes I know I can view the Cruft's website, but it is so much fun to get close up photos of all the dogs from people who actually attend the show. I am envious you can go there if you want.. They have package deals from the U.S. way over $2,500.00 for that week.. I save this money for my dogs's show career.. Cant do both, hwell:[/quote]

Tall Dark and Handsome was Grandpa to some of our dogs too and his sister, Lady Joan of Lowmont was mother to one of our girls.

Uh no...for that price i think I will view it on the internet. WOW!! I have a friend in England, Frances Ockford, who breeds brown Spoos under the Asteroid prefix, and I think she judges too. I will ask her if she goes to take pity on her North American buddies and take loads of video to share.

The silver bitch Susan currently has living with her is Thinker's daughter Joy, who was my Mom's girl, co-owned with Susan, and she went to live with Susan after my Mom died. Suan has championed her, put a couple of rally titles on her and a couple of obedience titles all in two and a half years. Again, pretty impressive!


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## spoospirit (Mar 10, 2009)

Pamela said:


> yes I think it might be Crackerjack that the temperament came from since I spoke to a lady that breeded her dog with Crackerjack and some of the pups had that issue . also the bitch from another farm that was ginger's mom seemd very fearful when I met her and incidentally, I had to insist to meet her - they werent prepared for that. Glad Taffy is good temperment - ginger is fine now but still has a little fear - but she is my heart dog! they used to show - g inger's father Crakerjack was a show dog - guess they are getting too old to bother and I didn't know abotu testing or anything like that when I bought ginger - learned a lot from this forum.
> 
> I didn't realize that you had posted before me lol


_That is so surprising that you had to insist on seeing the bitch! When we went to get Taffy, the parents were in the house and when we went to get Ivy, the son brought out both the mother and the grandmother for us to meet and the father was next door at his parent's place. The parents of both of our dogs were owned by either Barb or her son.

They are definitely too old for the show circuit now.

We would never have dealt with them if we were not allowed to see the parents.
_


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## Olie (Oct 10, 2009)

Fluffyspoos said:


> I personally don't regret going to Desert Reef at all,  I would recommend her to anyone looking for a standard, I just want my next one with a natural tail.


Her dogs are true beauties IMO. She finishes my top 3 (color wise) She seems to have all the requirements most of us need. And then adding in the care she provides in her home, nutrition, grooming and simply an open door to her program.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

Fluffyspoos;106511 said:


> I personally don't regret going to Desert Reef at all,  I would recommend her to anyone looking for a standard, I just want my next one with a natural tail.


Fluffyspoos:
Dessert Reef has beautiful dogs.. She is also an impecable breeder and put much aforethought into each breeding. I respect her ethics and I too would recommend her to anyone wishing to aquire a well bred poodle from a quality breeder.
I saw a couple of videos of her 4 standards playing with a tenis ball, and there was no fighting . The 4 got along and played beautifully with no altercation.


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## neVar (Dec 25, 2009)

whitespoos- you hvae to remember though the ban against docking affects more then just poodles- (SORRY going off on a tangent) some of us working dog folks who hvae dogs who get numerous tail injuries are very affected by this (JRT's who actually hunt- aussies who actually herd- their herding style leads to tail in juries)


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

NeVar
I do agree with you that some dogs depending on what they do during thier life time may have their tail injured. As I said before.. this topic is controversial and we all must do what feels comfortable for each of us.
I honestly believe that tail docking, ear cropping will eventually be banned.
I know most vets just hate doing these procedure. My vet feels very uncomfortable with it and poor guy dreads when I come to him with my puppies for docking.
I am currently docking all my puppies. I have no choice as the judges here can not look past an undocked tail. But this is the only reason for my doing so. But I do agree with you some working dogs can and do injure their tails.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

On docking - in the UK there is an exemption for working dogs. They can still be docked by a vet, who will supply documentation that it has been done legally. I don't think they can be shown in conformation classes, though. I have always wondered why some working breeds are traditionally docked, while others are not - no one has ever docked Border Collies, Labradors or Golden Retrievers, for example, yet they herd and retrieve.

On UK champions - I was stunned when I first came on this site at the number of people finishing their dogs as champions! Then I read up on the difference between the UK and the US systems ... In the UK, only the Kennel Club awards recognised conformation champion titles, and the number made up each year is very, very small. A dog needs to win three challenge certificates, under three different judges - a maximum of two CCs are awarded at each championship show (one for dogs, one for bitches), and the number of shows awarding them is tightly controlled - less than 30 a year. So to become a UK Champion it is necessary for a dog to get BOB, or BOS at least three times, against competition from current champions and CC holders. 

WhitePoodles - do you know of a good breeder of black standards in the UK? My sister is hoping to take early retirement in a few years time - I know she is already planning her retirement around a pup! She would not want to show - but health, temperament and soundness are always essentials.


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

FJM:
You are right. To gain the UK Championship title is infinitely more complicated and harder than attaining a U.S. or Cda. conformation title.
England has quite a different point system which makes it very hard to attain a conformation title in that country.

I know of a very nice lady who is a standard poodle breeder and I believe she either lives or used to live in England. The kennel prefix is SEREKUNDA, her name is Margaret Austin. I dont know much about her dogs' pedigrees . I have only met her once at PCA Nationals and she seemed very nice and has lovely dogs.
You may want to contact her, or just google Serekunda kennels.
There is also Kertella's, I am not sure it may be in Ireland. The breeder's name is Mr. Roger Bayliss he is also an international judge. He e-mailed me 9 years ago looking for a show puppy but I had nothing at that time. I have seen him at PCA Nationals once a couple years ago, but didnt talk to him. I know he did some breedings with E. Robinson (Lemerle Poodles). These are the only two that come to mind. Let me know if you managed to contact them.


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## ArreauStandardPoodle (Sep 1, 2009)

If this does not bring you what your sister is looking for, you could contact Frances Ockford at Asteroid Poodles. She lives in England and breeds browns, but has a lot of contacts in the Spoo/show world there.


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## fjm (Jun 4, 2010)

Many thanks for the UK contacts - I shall pass them on to my sister.


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## 4theLOVEofPOODLES (May 13, 2010)

I have two incredible...let me say that again.. INCREDIBLE dogs from Karen Green of Desert Reef Poodles. Not only has Karen been the most wonderful mentor...she has been a dear friend and I have been fortunate to get to know her on a more personal basis. However, I have seen how she is with her clients and she treats everyone like they are "extended family"! I know without a shadow of doubt that she truly loves and cares for her dogs and each and every one of her puppies. She is so careful with her breeding practices and she never ceases to amaze me at all of her knowledge of pedigree backgrounds and health. Karen has tremendously surpassed my expectations of an excellent breeder and I will forever be grateful to have her and two of her "girls" in my life. 

To answer your question if I would return....YOU BETCHA!


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## whitepoodles (Jul 5, 2010)

[
To answer your question if I would return....YOU BETCHA![/QUOTE]

I would second this comment any day.
I had the pleasure of emailing with Karen and have found her to be immaculately careful in her breeding program and selling practices.
With breeders like Karen Green of Desert Reef Poodles, our breed is in very good hands


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